#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-02
* Burgundavia stumbles into the room, rubbing his eyes
* rob^ gets coffee to stay awake
* mpt puts on his dunce's cap and joins the meeting
<Burgundavia> well, it is good that rob^ is here as well
<Burgundavia> we need both viewpoints on LocalHelp
* rob^ is on sick leave
<rob^> otherwise I wouldnt be :)
* Burgundavia is on running-out-of-money-ness
<rob^> I'd be asleep 
<rob^> 5am starts for work suck!
<rob^> its midnight here now
<mpt> rob^: Are you Robert Stoffers?
<rob^> yes
* Burgundavia is Corey Burger
<rob^> my mommy says I'm cool..
<Treenaks> Welcome to Ubuntites Anonymous ?
<Burgundavia> no, doc team meeting
<Treenaks> ;)
<rob^> where is everyone? did they turn the ntp update off on thier boxes?
<rob^> :)
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> I just pinged mdke
<Burgundavia> jerome is not online
<mpt> or maybe the agenda just wasn't that interesting ;-)
<rob^> heh
<rob^> ah fugde it, my sshed connection to my other box died during a dist-upgrade
<rob^> this could be bad :(
<jjesse> good luck
<rob^> hmm I still have a logon localy on that box :)
<rob^> bloody power saving crap..
<rob^> hmm
<rob^> this meeting is going off!
<jjesse> we going to get started?
<Burgundavia> sure
<rob^> ya
<Burgundavia> who is here?
<mpt> me, sort of
* rob^ 
<Burgundavia> 1st item -- Meeting times
<rob^> yes
<Burgundavia> rob^, you added this?
<rob^> yep
<Burgundavia> lets us know you issues
<rob^> What I wanted to discuss is a better timing for the meeting
<rob^> but we really need more members here
<mpt> This is a bad time for me right now, and a bad time for me next week, it'll be fine after that
<Burgundavia> is another day better?
<rob^> with my work I wont be able to attend any more meetings
<rob^> can I suggest Friday?
<Burgundavia> I have no objection
<Burgundavia> shall we raise it on the mailing list, due to lack of members here?
<rob^> yes good idea
<Burgundavia> ok, next item
<Burgundavia> project updates
<Burgundavia> rob^, you want to lead off on faqguide?
<rob^> ok
<rob^> the Ubuntu version of the faq guide is really comming along quite well
<rob^> there are still a few things we need to fix up, but it will probably be ready for review soon
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we just started
<Burgundavia> rob^, you want to repeat what you just said for jsgotangco 
<rob^> yep
<rob^> the Ubuntu version of the faq guide is really comming along quite well
<rob^> there are still a few things we need to fix up, but it will probably be ready for review soon
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, we are moving the time/day disucssion tot eh mailing list
<rob^> as for the KDE profile, there is still a lot of work to be done
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<rob^> I don't know if we will have the KDE profile ready for Breezy, but time will tell I guess
<jjesse> is there someone working on the KDE profile?
<rob^> so yeah
<rob^> jjesse, I am a little bit
<rob^> but we could really use someone who uses kubuntu
<Burgundavia> our last writing must be done by Sept 8
<Burgundavia> jjesse, you want to talk about the Kubuntu Users Guide?
<jjesse> its in svn right? i could look into it, i'm behind on kusuerguide though :(
<Burgundavia> jjesse, yes
<rob^> yep
<jjesse> rob^ i'll work on it
<rob^> ok, thanks :)
<rob^> the author of KUDOS is allowing us to add stuff from it
<rob^> I dont think anything has yet though..
<jjesse> alright where is that located in svn rob^
<rob^> generic/faqguide/C/
<rob^> kudos isnt in there yet though
<Burgundavia> what is KUDOS again?
<rob^> a kubuntu version of ubuntuguide.org
<jjesse> KUDOS is like ubuntuguide.org 
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> rob^, anything more?
<rob^> no, I'm good
<rob^> carry on
<Burgundavia> jjesse, Kubuntu Users Guide?
<jjesse> coming along good
<jjesse> i know some of things we are still waiting for some decisions on
<Burgundavia> decisions from whom?
<jjesse> like whether or not kynaptic will be used for installing software
<jjesse> kubuntu-devs
<Burgundavia> ok
<rob^> kynaptic/synaptic is used in the faqguide now
<jjesse> i know but there is some talk in breezy that willc hange
<rob^> oh super..
<rob^> kynaptic only?
<Burgundavia> or kapture
<jjesse> yeah knaptytic vs kapture
<Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackageManager
<rob^> ah
<jjesse> which is why the install portion is still not done
<rob^> well lucky I havent added much from kubuntu then :)
<Burgundavia> ok, the install is not a major deal
<Burgundavia> people use softare far more than they install it
<jjesse> agreed, but everything else is coming along well
<mpt> Burgundavia: However, installing software is the thing they report trouble with most often
<Burgundavia> jjesse, so your writing is currently waiting on kubuntu-developers
<Burgundavia> mpt, yes
<rob^> yes, a couple of meetings ago it was suggested that using gui apps to install things is a good idea
<mpt> judging by the forums
<jjesse> just had some family emergencies that have slowed down writing
<mpt> David Ottina's work
<jjesse> the seciont that is waiting is part of what froud is writing
<Burgundavia> ok
<jjesse> i gotta get my ass in gear to be honest
<Burgundavia> jjesse, anything else specific to mention before we move on?
* rob^ looks at the bottom of his empty coffee cup..
<jjesse> not that i'm aware of
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> on to the big topic
<Burgundavia> Yelp Main page
<rob^> you want to go first Burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> mpt, you want to present your idea quickly?
<rob^> or mpt..
<mpt> sure
<mpt> One of the things I identified in http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp was that Yelp's front page is pretty bad
<mpt> In Ubuntu as well as vanilla Gnome
<mpt> The fix, which will be done upstream, is to default yelp to opening one particular book
<mpt> For upstream Gnome, this will be the Gnome User's Guide
<mpt> I have started writing a document I'm calling "Ubuntu Help"
<mpt> You can get it from the Supermirror, which is the part of Launchpad that will be used for mirroring code branches in the future
<mpt> http://mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0/
* Burgundavia hangs his head in shame about promising a doc about baz for the doc team in January
<mpt> It's a Bazaar archive -- Bazaar is the way Ubuntu-related development will be increasingly distributed, starting a few months from now
<mpt> The only non-forward-compatible thing about it is that it uses the baz version of Bazaar, rather than the (eventual replacement) bzr version
<mpt> because bzr doesn't support the Supermirror yet.
<rob^> when will the docteam change over to it?
<mpt> Whenever you like
<mpt> Bazaar is distributed
<Burgundavia> post breezy would be a good time
<mpt> So you can make your own branch
<rob^> yes agreed
<mpt> and keep it locally
<mpt> and mirror it to your own personal archive
<mpt> then we can merge from each other's branches.
<mpt> For more information on Bazaar, see http://bazaar.canonical.com/
<rob^> dang, and I only just learnt svn..
<jsgotangc1> anyone?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangc1, hey
<jsgotangc1> my dsl died
<rob^> we are at nr 3
<jsgotangc1> im in a freakin' dialup
<Burgundavia> yelp main page
<jsgotangc1> just 3 eh?
<mpt> Now, the reason I started it from scratch is so that I could avoid using the GFDL
<Burgundavia> mpt, mind if we take jsgotangc1 project update?
<jsgotangc1> no go ahead
<rob^> mpt, what licence are you going to use then?
<jsgotangc1> my connection is extremely bad at the moment
<mpt> and we're going to be talking about licenses later in the meeting.
<rob^> ok
<mpt> It's dual-licensed under the GPL and the CC BY-SA, with the special exception that the attribution of the CC BY-SA does not apply.
<mpt> That way, it can be used by Debian
<mpt> As far as I can tell, Debian is going to be removing all GFDL-licensed docs for Etch
<rob^> hmm the attribution is the best bit :(
<mpt> and they're not happy about the pure BY-SA either, because of the attribution requirement
<Burgundavia> anyway, we can discuss licenses later
<Burgundavia> mpt, what does you page offer over the exisitng page?
<mpt> So after Breezy I'll give Debian a brand-neutralized version of Ubuntu Help
<mpt> Well, for the front page it's organized by topic, rather than by document
<mpt> because people don't know which, if any, document will contain the answer to their question
<mpt> see http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp#head-3c25bdfc7f57ac1ab750b2db298e2b75ed82ed91 for more details about that problem
<mpt> At the moment, I regret to say, we have a lot of guides of various levels of detail which are duplicating a lot of work
<mpt> and I'm sorry for starting yet another one :-)
<mpt> I only did it because of the licensing issue.
<rob^> ok, whist I dont disagree with what your doing, the page will have links all over the place. people will get lost in it
<mpt> The front page has twelve links on it, and I don't intend that number to increase
<mpt> if anything, it will decrease
<rob^> mpt, no, once they click thru they will be in the middle of some doc
<rob^> for this to work better we need to rethink how we do our documentation
<Burgundavia> sort of
<Burgundavia> mpt's guide would have some writing in it
<rob^> exactly
<Burgundavia> it wouldn't just be links to existing docs
<rob^> if we are going to use this, we should pool our efforts into one monolitic doc
<rob^> otherwise it will be messy
<mpt> As soon as yelp gets a search function, it can decrease to about 4~5
<mpt> rob^: I'm not sure what you mean by "in the middle of"
<mpt> The organization of pages into books is an implementation detail that I want to hide as thoroughly as possible
<mpt> I think I'm done
<mpt> unless there are any more questions
<mpt> Yes, if it's just a ToC it won't be much use to Debian :-)
<mpt> I'm all in favor of merging docs
<rob^> mpt, say someone wanted to burn a cd.. that info could be in the middle of say the userguide
<Burgundavia> so if we merge the commonprobs, the faq and localhelp into one doc, would that work
<rob^> and burning an .iso image could be in the middle of the faq
<rob^> its all over the place
<rob^> Burgundavia, thats kind of what I'm thinking
<jsgotangco> sorry guys, my internet is acting up at th emoment, its raining so hard here, please continue on
<jsgotangco> i can't really give input that much since im so lagged because of the rains
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, np
<rob^> Burgundavia, maybe even the quick guide
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I will post the summary and log
<Burgundavia> rob^, the quick guide is going to be respeced, next item
<Burgundavia> and thus really isn't a doc anymore
<mpt> Anyway, I encourage people to get to know bazaar, maybe even send me the URL to their branches :-)
<rob^> yes, its redundant
<Burgundavia> no, the quick guide is becoming a marketing doc
<rob^> ok
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> new features!
<rob^> that is a good change of focus
<Burgundavia> that was the original focus
<jsgotangco> yes
<rob^> yeah, but thats not what it does now..
<Burgundavia> yes
<rob^> hence respec..
<rob^> ok
<jsgotangco> its alright, all docs are in state of flux at the moment anyway
<Burgundavia> that was a miscommunication, that happened somewhere in the madness of Mataro
<rob^> yeah
<Burgundavia> shall we agree to merge the faq guide into localhelp?
<Burgundavia> details to be hashed out as needed?
<rob^> how are we going to do this?
<rob^> let me look at localhelp first
<rob^> I will post to the list about it later
<Burgundavia> ok
<mpt> Burgundavia: We can't do that, they're under different licenses
<mpt> Unless you get permission from every contributor
<rob^> hmm
<rob^> we could just drop one
<Burgundavia> the faqguide is already gpl
<rob^> yes
<Burgundavia> rob^, how much of the old faq guide are you keeping?
<Burgundavia> is it worth just dropping and starting again?
<rob^> its been changed heaps
<rob^> take a look
<Burgundavia> yes
<mpt> In theory, some faqguide contributor might have a violent disagreement with the BY-SA
<Burgundavia> ok, shall we just drop the faq guide and merge your work into the localhelp stuff?
<rob^> Burgundavia, I'll take a look at local help first
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> the stuff that mpt posted int eh baz archive is the same as is on LocalHelp
<mpt> rob^: Ah, now I think I understand your earlier question. The answer is, every topic appears on its own page.
<rob^> Burgundavia, I would dare say thats what we'll do however
<rob^> is localhelp only licenced under gpl?
<Burgundavia> mpt just through that on
<Burgundavia> s/thought/threw
<Burgundavia> he didn't know our licenses
<mpt> As I said, GPL + BY-SA, with the exception that the attribution restriction of the BY-SA does not apply.
<mpt> I went with that after talking with Burgundavia about licenses
<mpt> It's the same as OpenOffice.org uses
<mpt> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-community/2005-March/000369.html
<rob^> what does taking off BY SA do then..
<rob^> how will it effect the docs?
<mpt> It doesn't, directly
<mpt> but it means that Ubuntu Help couldn't be copied and pasted into other BY-SA work
<mpt> which in turn would make authors of BY-SA works less likely to contribute their changes back.
<rob^> from my understanding, the BY-SA just means that they dont have to acknowledge us/ubuntu?
<jeffsch> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/
<Burgundavia> hey jeffsch 
<mpt> The BY-SA normally *does* mean that they have to attribute the original author
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, have you missed anything?
<mpt> but Debian doesn't like that for the same reason they don't like the GFDL
<jeffsch> nope
<mpt> Hence, my special exception
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, ok
<rob^> but that sucks quite frankly
<rob^> thats our hard work, we should be acknowledged
<mpt> Well, people who contribute to GPL apps don't have a problem with their attribution possibly being removed
<mpt> I want something that Ubuntu can share with Debian, and I don't mind my attribution being removed
<rob^> as do I, but I dont see why Debian needs to be so hard-assed about it
<Burgundavia> the GFDL sucks, to be honest
<mpt> I have no particular love for Debian, but they're the foundation of Ubuntu, and they've got good principles, and they'll be in a hole without GFDL-licensed docs, and something coming from Ubuntu to help them out will make them feel better about Ubuntu.
<jsgotangco> i don't mind our docs go upstream either
<mpt> If you're uncomfortable with the idea of your attribution being removed, we have plenty of docs under the GFDL that you can contribute to :-)
<jsgotangco> Debian Legal would be happy as well
<rob^> yeah, well it doesn't look like I have a choice if I want to keep doing what I'm doing
<rob^> but then again, it would be good to give something like this back to Debian
<jjesse> can i ask a silly question?  why would our docs go upstream to debian when they are ubuntu specific?
<jeffsch> rob^: the BY part of the license is the attribution part
<Burgundavia> jjesse, they don't have to be
<jjesse> like the FAQ guide
<jeffsch> rob^: the BY part will still be there
<Burgundavia> the key part is the docs still remain free, even if our names are not on it
<jeffsch> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/
<mpt> jjesse: One thing that Bazaar makes easy is that Debian and Ubuntu can maintain their branches independently, merging only the non-brand-specific parts from each other.
<rob^> jeffsch, thanks
<rob^> jeffsch, now I get it
<jjesse> ok
<jsgotangco> jjesse: it means our docs can be easily lifted up
<rob^> I'm ok with the BY part still being there
<rob^> the SA doesn't bother me so much
<Burgundavia> shall we post to the list about this?
<rob^> Burgundavia, yes good point also
<Burgundavia> we also should clear a license change mdz or mako
<rob^> yep
* mpt thinks
<Burgundavia> mpt, you want to do the emailing on this?
<Burgundavia> ok then, lets move on
<Burgundavia> new quick guide
<Burgundavia> any objections to it becoming a marketing doc?
<rob^> Burgundavia, what do you mean by "marketing doc"?
<jsgotangco> i don't except that if its a marketing doc, i dont think quickguide is a good title
<Burgundavia> Basically, use breezy because here are all the cool new features
<rob^> ok
<Burgundavia> http://www.linspire.com/quickstart
<Burgundavia> see that for an idea
<rob^> yeah, ok sounds good :)
<jjesse> fine w/ me
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, any thoughts?
<rob^> probably needs a name change or something though
<Burgundavia> yes
<jeffsch> new features since hoary?
<Burgundavia> yes
<jeffsch> or new features like/not like windows?
<Burgundavia> what sets Ubuntu apart, mostly new features
<Burgundavia> but maybe cool features that aren't in OS X or windows
<rob^> bugger
<rob^> netsplit
<Burgundavia> we only lost mpt
<jeffsch> Burgundavia: http://www.linspire.com/quickstart is empty 
<Burgundavia> bugger
<Burgundavia> it should autostart downloading a pdf
<jsgotangco> i thought just cool new breezy features
<rob^> Burgundavia, I've seen it before
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> most of the breezy new features are also not going to be in anything else
<Burgundavia> but the idea of the respec is good? no objections?
<jeffsch> no objections from me
<rob^> no
<jsgotangco> none
<Burgundavia> ok, moving on
<jsgotangco> im not so sure about Kubuntu though
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you want to give an update on your project
<jsgotangco> its like 80% done
<Burgundavia> and jeffsch since you are here as well
<jsgotangco> hmm project yes....i'm almost done with my StyleGuide contribution
<jsgotangco> on writing for international audience
<jsgotangco> as for QuickGuide, yes we'll do the respec
* rob^ looks at agenda..
<jeffsch> coming slowly. jsgotangco has helped, I still hope to be done by july 31.
<jsgotangco> i haven't been doing Kubuntu stuff slowly though
<jeffsch> may be wishful thinking though
<Burgundavia> rob^, I was jumping back to get them
<rob^> ah cool
<rob^> bit lost then for a sec
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, jsgotangco anything else?
<jsgotangco> well i'm going to make a launchpad team for us
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu Documentation Project
<Burgundavia> ok
<jeffsch> nope. move along :)
<Burgundavia> do we need to discuss licenses further?
<rob^> well, one thing I might add
<jsgotangco> we need a working X to do work really
* Burgundavia has a working X
<Burgundavia> rob^, shoot
<rob^> the faq as mentioned already is GPL as it was derived from ubuntuguide.org
<Burgundavia> yes
<rob^> I have it as tri-licenced atm
<Burgundavia> ok
<rob^> but I'm not too sure about that
<jeffsch> i thought the author gave permission for gfdl and cc-by-sa
<Burgundavia> he did
<rob^> jeffsch, yes
<Burgundavia> but it is already gpl
<jeffsch> ok, so the version in svn is only two licenses
<rob^> no, three
<Burgundavia> we never added the gpl to it
<rob^> it was gpl anyway
<Burgundavia> until now
<rob^> its stated at the top of ubuntuguide.org
<jeffsch> but our faqguide is only 2 licenses, we dropped gpl with permission
<rob^> ok
<jeffsch> ubuntuguide.org is still gpl
<jeffsch> the docs are different now
<Burgundavia> but our doc is a clear deriv of the ubuntuguide.org one
<rob^> yes, pretty much all the differences are mine and matts work
<rob^> the way I see it is that if we still want to use gpl we can, as that is the orignal licence..
<rob^> but how does everyone see it?
<Burgundavia> rob^, you want to ping mako on that one?
<rob^> ok
<rob^> after the meeting
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> anything else on licensing>
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> our linode server
<rob^> no
<jeffsch> i kinda like PD, the ultimate in free
<Burgundavia> shall we defer till next meeting
<Burgundavia> so mdke can present it?
<Burgundavia> unless anybody else has ideas
<jsgotangco> he's in his barrister ceremoney
<jsgotangco> his officially a lawyer today
<Burgundavia> lucky man
<jsgotangco> i guess we can start an Ubuntu Legal team
<jsgotangco> heh
<rob^> heh
<Burgundavia> ok, any further items for this meeting?
<rob^> nup
<jsgotangco> ok just a quickie, i'll do a team for us in launchpad and announce it later
<Burgundavia> ok
<jsgotangco> motu has one why don't we
<Burgundavia> we already have a wiki team to
<jsgotangco> yeah that's why...
<jsgotangco> other than that, let's wait for our laptops :)
<Burgundavia> ok then, I declare this meeting finished
<Burgundavia> I will have a summary on the list soonish
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: thanks for filling up, i was at the wrong place at the wrong time..my dsl is still dead..
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, np
<jsgotangco> ok next meeting should be 2 weeks from now, 22UTC
<jsgotangco> unless you've talked about the time issue
<rob^> maybe
<rob^> I'm going to email the list about it
<jsgotangco> sure
<rob^> not enough memebers here to discuss it
<jsgotangco> but remember we're spanning across 2 oceans
<rob^> yea I know!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Fri Aug 5 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Thu Aug 11 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<jsgotangco> 14UTC is like 7am in some areas in NA
<Burgundavia> don't remind me
<Burgundavia> sleep, whats sleep?
<rob^> jsgotangco, its midnight here
<jsgotangco> heck i've had it worse on 20utc meetings
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Fri Aug 5 20:00 UTC NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Aug 9 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu Aug 11 22:00 UTC Documentation Team -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
<jsgotangco> :)
<rob^> jsgotangco, I think the day needs to change
<rob^> to like Friday or something
<jeffsch> Burgundavia: in winter, 14UTC will be 6am here!
<jsgotangco> rob^: sure, as long as it doesn't overlap with CC and TB meetings
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> remember 22UTC for us is actually the next day
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, where do you live?
<jeffsch> vancouver
<Burgundavia> that is crazy
<rob^> 22z is 8am here
<Burgundavia> anyway, we should get out of -meeting
<Burgundavia> back to -doc all of you
<rob^> the next day also
<mpt> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs doesn't work
<fabbione> what do you mean it doesn't work?
<fabbione> be specific
<mpt> sorry
<mpt> fabbione: "The document contains no data."
<fabbione> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<fabbione> works here
<fabbione> check your browser
<mpt> the latter works
<mpt> thanks
<mpt> ... before it crashes Epiphany
<mpt> yay for Crash Recovery :-)
<fabbione> hppa: 71.91 %
<fabbione> sparc: 75.17 %
* fabbione still leads the race
<fabbione> you also have less pkgs to build....
<fabbione> ia64: 89.25 %
<highvoltage> hilaire: do you use squeak?
<highvoltage> sorry, wrong window
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-03
<mdz> Keybuk: hi
<Keybuk> I did just brain sabdfl with a bread-roll, hang on, I'll go do it again
<Keybuk> (re: mjg59)
<sabdfl> greetings all
<sabdfl> from the chicken pox capital of the world...
<sabdfl> hi mjg59
<sabdfl> Keybuk: set?
<Keybuk> yup, mdz: set?
<mdz> Keybuk: on the phone with silbs right now, but can devote some cycles here
<sabdfl> ready, steady, go
<sabdfl> +1
<sabdfl> i win
<mdz> +1 for mjg59 upload to mani
<mdz> main
<Keybuk> +1 also for mjg59 for main
<sabdfl> all set then - mjg59, welcome aboard. elmo, could you add mjg59 to the keyring?
<Keybuk> mjg59: congrats, etc.
<mdz> mjg59: welcome aboard
<mjg59> Thanks!
<Nafallo> was that an extra meeting or something? :-)
<Keybuk> yes, an extra-ordinary meeting of the TB
<Nafallo> quick one :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, one of the "very quick apptroval for really cool features" meetings
<ogra> (the first one) ;)
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the really cool features?
<ogra> usplash ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: what is ubuntu express? is it the new ubuntu installer?
<Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress
<ogra> highvoltage, a livecd installer
<highvoltage> ogra: does the graphical installer have a name?
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress
<ogra> ubuntu express :)
<highvoltage> ogra: but that's just for installing the live cd? i thought there's a gtk installer being made too, opr will that double as the live cd installer?
<Kamion> no, that was deferred
<Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-04
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Wed 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || Fri 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc T
<robitaille> added next MOTU meeting
<robitaille> sigh....the topic is now too long...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || Tue 2 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Wed 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || Fri 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || Tue 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Thu 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team http://wik
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs || 2 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Docteam
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || 2 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-07
<zed> hello :)
<adomanski> hi
<adomanski> Hi Sturmkind ;)
<Sturmkind> hello adomanski ;-)
<adomanski> hehe
<Sturmkind> i think it's a english channel
<adomanski> it is
<Nafallo> mako: ping
<Seveas> Nafallo, wait an hour :)
<teolemon> what?
<Sturmkind> *g*
<adomanski> lol
<teolemon> i thought that was Greenwich + ou - one
<Nafallo> hmm, that was not the highlight I wanted ;-)
<Yann2> teolemon > +2, we've summer hour
<teolemon> okay
<teolemon> so French time ?
<teolemon> that would be ...
<adomanski> 22
<teolemon> gosh
<Seveas> teolemon, sate --utc
<Seveas> date --utc even
<teolemon> going to read a bit to wait
<teolemon> see ya
<Yann2> teolemon > qd on est en heure d't on a utc+2, en heure d'hiver UTC+2
<teolemon> et les anglais c'est pareil ?
<teolemon> ou on est les seuls
<Yann2> pareil :)
<adomanski> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java
<adomanski> lol
<Yann2> erf
<Sturmkind> hello daniel
<dholbach> hello sascha
<\sh> hey Sturmkind 
<\sh> dholbach: what a pleasure to see u :)
<Sturmkind> hello \sh
<dholbach> hai \sh :)
<Sturmkind> where the shark is?
<\sh> in kerpen..next to michael schumacher ,-)
<Sturmkind> lol @ \sh 
<Sturmkind> \sh: i wish the shark near to the german po
<Sturmkind> politicians
<Sturmkind> :-)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> ok..time to check the agenda ,)
<Sturmkind> ok
<\sh> who is jennylw? the standard girls name for someone not existent?
<Sturmkind> lol
<ubuntu_demon> hi
<Seveas> 'navond Roald
<ubuntu_demon> hi Seveas are you dutch ?
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, yup, je kent me zelfs ;)
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: dennis :)
<Seveas> :D
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: did you see that I put my name on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamIdeas ? I would like to visit the next meeting
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, nice
<Seveas> check out DutchTeamSpurt too
<mako> Nafallo: hey
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: also if you need a moderator for http://www.ubuntu-linux.nl/forum/ I'm willing
<Seveas> we're going to translate heaps of documentation in one weekend (5-6 nov)
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, ubuntu-linu.nl is a rogue site..
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I didn't know
<Seveas> I've been trying to establish cooperation but they don't want to cooperate...
<\sh> hey mako...still in the netherlands?
<ogra> \sh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyL%c3%b6%c3%b6w
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: then we won't cooperate with them ;) .. also it's better to have all of the forums in 1 place
<mdke> Seveas, a translation weekend is an awesome idea
<Seveas> mdke, we think so too
<Sturmkind> Seveas: the same problem we have in germany with ubuntu-forum.de :-(
<Yann2> we're going to make a "forum day" too ;)
<Nafallo> mako: hi! can I ask you to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyLw? :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, that's an empty page
<Sturmkind> ogra: nice gothic style ;-)
<Nafallo> mako: I'm not sure what a contribution is for translating girlfriends
<Nafallo> Seveas: hmm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyL%c3%b6%c3%b6w
<ogra> Sturmkind, meet gothcat :)
<Yann2> who is Josh Kresh?
<Yann2> Kress?
<Seveas> ah, there's content now
<ogra> Yann2, yep
<Seveas> 5 minutes ago there wasnt :)
<Nafallo> Seveas: :-)
<Sturmkind> ah thank you ogra 
<kinjoo> Josh Kress, that's me
<ubuntu_demon> this is me : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman
<kinjoo> Who' asking?
<Nafallo> would that satisfy for a membership or what is missing? :-)
<ogra> kinjoo, Yann2 was
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, wait your turn, the meeting didn't start yet :)
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I know just wanted everyone to know who I am :-P
<kinjoo> ogra: I see, but I wanted to know his/her real name ;-)
<\sh> hmmm....
<\sh> weired
<\sh> ffox should translate the umlauts to http conform character replacements
<\sh> Nafallo: your girlfriend? then u cheated ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: hehe, cheated? :-)
<Sturmkind> hello littlepaul 
<\sh> Nafallo: u put the content just now on it ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: she did actually :-)
<Seveas> Yann2, btw: did you see my nice ubuntu-themed forum at ubuntulinux.nl/forum :)
<Yann2> Seveas > :)
<\sh> hmmm...i have to say: quattro formaggi pizza is nothing for me
<\sh> it smells like stinky feet
<Seveas> \sh, no cheese lover?
<Mez> Tue Aug  2 19:59:41 UTC 2005
<\sh> meeting
<Seveas> <public service announcement>Hi everybody. The CC meeting will start soon. Everybody who wants to become a member: please prepare a 3 line description of your work for Ubuntu so far, what you want to do and your vision about Ubuntu. And to everybody: please stay on-topic; the CC meetings take long. Going into off-topic discussions makes them even longer. Let's not repeat the debacle we saw last meeting. </public service announcement>
<Seveas> Now please everybosy state your name for the record
* Seveas = Dennis Kaarsemaker
<Kamion> mako,elmo: around?
<elmo> Kamion: yah
* Kamion is Colin Watson
* \sh = StephanHermann
* Mez is Martin Meredith
* adomanski = Alexander Domanski
* smurfix is MatthiasUrlichs
<Yann2> Yann Hamon, Ubuntu-fr locoteamleader.
* dholbach is Daniel Holbach
* ubuntu_demon = Roald Hopman
* Nafallo = Christian Bjlevik
<gothcat> Jenny Lw
<ogra> <-- still OliverGrawert
<Mez> ogra: :O
<kinjoo> Josh Kress
<smurfix> I need to run away for 15min or so, sorry :-/
<Yann2> (who's Josh Kress?)
<Yann2> ahh ^^ 
<Sturmkind> Sascha Morr
<Sturmkind> hello smurfix
* littlepaul = Andreas Brunner
* kolcvk Konstantin Kolcov
<Yann2> who's leading the meeting? Seveas ?
<Seveas> no, mako
* jbailey = Jeff Bailey
<ogra> Yann2, mako
<\sh> Yann2: mako
<\sh> ,-)
<Yann2> k.
<ju> Hi all
<Mez> Kamion, do we have a sabdfl today?
<ogra> Mez, doesnt look like
<Kamion> Mez: no, he's too busy at the Brazil sprint apparently
<Kamion> phone
<Seveas> mako, is busy too it seems :)
<Mez> elmo, looks like you're leading the meeting :P
<\sh> actually..time to catch a beer
<ogra> Seveas, s/busy/preparing/ ;)
<elmo> hmm, where did mako go?  we kind of need him for quorum
<elmo> ok, let's have a brief on-hold, while we a) wait for kamion to finish talking to mark, b) try and get mako
<ogra> he was here 15min ago...
<mdke> elmo, got 2 secs for a PM?
<Seveas> Nafallo, sent mako of to gothcat's wikipage
<Seveas> maybe he fainted :)
<Nafallo> lol
<mdke> <-- (MatthewEast)
<dholbach> hey mdke :)
<Kamion> Mark sends his apologies by phone, as I said too busy
<gothcat> Seveas: Thanx *smiling*
* \sh was surprised...I thought gene simmons from kiss is using ubuntu and wants to apply for membership..after that he recruits us all for the "KISS Army" ,-)
<dholbach> Kamion: tell him hi from us :)
<mdke> hiya dholbach
<Mez> \sh wha?
<\sh> Mez: when I saw the first few lines of gothcats picture :)
<smurfix> back
<Seveas> wb
<Seveas> the meeting dit not start yet
<elmo> calling mako
<Mez> \sh, you need a higher res
<smurfix> Seveas: I notice ;-)
<\sh> Mez: yes..:) 14" isn't good at all
<\sh> cheers guys
<\sh> and gals :)
<Mez> \sh 14" = impressive
<Sturmkind> \sh: hm i should have a look at gothcat's pictures ;-)
<elmo> mako's just getting online
<mako> ok
<mako> that was easy
<Kamion> guys, leching at prospective members is hereby off-topic
<mako> i was *sure* it was in two hours
<mako> i didn't have a chance to look at the agenda
<elmo> yeah,  off-topic and unpleasant, please try and have a little respect
<Kamion> (right)
<gothcat> \sh: I'm actually a big KISS fan :) but I'm a goth so thats way I have so much makeup :D
<Seveas> I meant no disrespect. If anybody thoght that, I hereby apologize.
<\sh> gothcat: as I said..the picture wasn't there completly..I just saw the white colour :)
<mako> alrigght everyone
<\sh> second seveas
<Sturmkind> gothcat: the goth makeup looks chute ;-)
<mako> ok
<gothcat> Sturmkind: thanx
<mako> are people waiting for me to chair this again?
<mdke> ;)
<smurfix> mako: probably
<mako> alright
<kolcvk> :)
<ogra> mako, who else should lead us :)
<elmo> mako: if you don't mind
<mako> lets get this party started
<mako> i am Benjamin Mako Hill
<mako> and i have just now looked at the agenda due to thinko :)
<ogra> <-- OliverGrawert
<Kamion> we've done the roll-call, let's move on
<mako> alright
<mako> so loco team leaders
<ogra> Seveas ...
* mako nods to smurfix 
<kolcvk> :)
<mako> Seveas: you're up
<mako> Seveas: what needs to change?
<Seveas> ok then, I've taken over Treenaks' position as leader lately
<mako> alright
<mako> Treenaks: you around?
<Seveas> unfortunately not
<mako> Seveas: while we're on the topic, is it worth talking about the two dutch teams?
<smurfix> Seveas: tell us a bit about sourself?
<mako> and what is going to happen with it
<Seveas> mako, not yet, there are still some struggles going on after initial success
<Yann2> mako > Josh Kress and I agreed, Ubuntu marketing effort and Ubuntu europe topics should be merged
<Seveas> basically the 'others' refuse to cooperate
<mako> Seveas: yeah, why don't you talk Treenaks sounds good
<Kamion> what's the reasoning there?
* ogra guesses the 'others' say that too
<kinjoo> mako: approved, merge topics!
* mako nods to kinjoo 
<Seveas> Kamion, ubuntu-linux.nl is part of alleslinux.com and as such wants no cooperation with official teams
<Seveas> but they do get on our nerves by not even linking to the official dutch dite
<Seveas> site*
* mako is alright with overlapping loco teams but would like to avoid them
<mdke> Seveas, do they even answer your mails now?
<Yann2> CC agenda updated.
<Seveas> mdke, yes, finally after 2 months 
<mako> Seveas: well, as the team with official blessing.. you guys should play teh nice guy
<mdke> progress :)
<Seveas> mako, we do :)
<mako> i hvae a dialog with the guy from the second team and can help to put pressure on either side if you want
<Seveas> mako, let's take that out of the meeting, this would be off-topic for now...
<mako> alright
<mako> Seveas: anything else to report with the team?
<Seveas> yeah
<Seveas> we're goinf to have a weekend-long translation spurt to translate a lot of documentation
<dholbach> cool :)
<mdke> +++
<mako> Seveas: awesome
<Seveas> And the idea sounded so good to me that I want to spread it :)
<mako> Seveas: you should write that up and send it sounder
<Seveas> mako, will do once the plans are final
<mako> try to use it as a model for the other teams
<mako> cool!
<mako> Seveas: anything else?
<Seveas> not unless someone has questions
<smurfix> Seveas: Cool. Please update the LoCoTeamsList ;-)
<mako> cool
<mako> Yann2: you're up\
<Yann2> thx.
<mako> Yann2: whats up with the french team?
<Yann2> Well, the german teaam and french team had some hosting problem, a few while ago
<Yann2> i told you about that.
<Yann2> you told us to find some host ourselves, as the ubuntu foundation couldn't help
<mdke> Yann2, we're on the team leader part of the agenda right now
<Yann2> Oh.
<Yann2> hm, . I'm already team leader... 
<mdke> that's what I thought too...
<mdke> ;)
<ogra> Yann2, your ip indicates that youre in germany...
<Yann2> i suppose i shouldn't have noted my name on the agenda, then :)
<Yann2> ogra > i am ;)
<Yann2> well, sorry, let's move on.
<Virtuall> argh... but I probably should :(
<Seveas> Virtuall, -> next time
<mako> ok.. lets move on :)
<ogra> does anyone els think its funny that the .it team has a british settled leader and the french one a german one ?
<ogra> else even
<Seveas> KyleBrooks
<mako> Yann2: unless you had something you needed in front of the council
<Virtuall> :)
<Yann2> ogra > i'm french. Studiing in germany. Coming back to france in one month. We're off topic ;)
<mdke> ogra, at least Yann2 is actually french ;)
<Seveas> kbrooks apparently is not present
<smurfix> mako: we do, but UbuntuEurope is further down on the agenda.
<mdke> ogra, also, the -it team doesn't have a leader :D
<Seveas> RoaldHopman -> ubuntu_demon you're up
<mako> ok
<ubuntu_demon> ok
<ogra> mdke, :)
<ubuntu_demon> I'm a moderator of ubuntuforums. (ubuntu_demon)
<ubuntu_demon> I will continue helping people as a moderator for the foreseeable future. Also I've got some other thoughts/ideas.See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman for some of them. Maybe it would be nice to blog about some of them on Planet Ubuntu.
<mako> wow, people already know the routine :)
<mdke> oh wow you're THAT ubuntu_demon :)
<ubuntu_demon> mdke: yeah I am :)
<mdke> nice work
<Seveas> mako, I gave the instructions prior to the meeting :)
<Mez> +1 for Forums work
<mako> since i'm not on the forums, are there are people here who can vouch for ubuntu_demon's forum work?
<mdke> yeah
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, as forum helper, fif you join the NewUserNetwork?
<mdke> he does good work
<Seveas> did*
* Mez can vouch for him
<Kamion> (detail's good)
<ubuntu_demon> mako: you can read everything about me on the forums and my wiki if you want :-P
<Kamion> lots of posts, mind
<gothcat> I have been translating in Rosetta so far and I will continue to do so. Yesterday I became an approver
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, that's not the point, we need people to vouch for you with details on why you should be a member
<Mez> ubuntu_demon, has given lots and lots of support on the forums, and also does a great job of keeping them in order.
<gothcat> oops
<Kamion> ubuntu_demon: that takes a bit long for these meetings, summaries are our friends :)
<Mez> gothcat: wait your turn
<ubuntu_demon> Kamion: ok :)
<siretart> hi folks!
<Sturmkind> we was at ubuntu-fr and Yann2 ?
<Nafallo> Mez: she didn't realize the enter key was that close ;-)
<mdke> post count is a reasonable indication of ubuntu_demon's work
<Mez> Nafallo, sorry :D automativ
<mako> alright
<Kamion> ubuntu_demon: what would you say the top couple of issues you regularly help people with are? (curious)
<mako> i've seen ubuntu_demon around.. i'm happy apprroving him for membership based on forums contributions
<mako> but would still like to hear the answer to Kamion
<ubuntu_demon> Kamion: that really depends :)
<ubuntu_demon> Kamion: often I just have to tell people to take a look at the ubuntuguide first
* Seveas suggests: more forum people in here during CC meetings is forum people want to be members. ubuntu_demon can you please contact other forum staff and moderators to be here in such occasions
<mdke> Seveas, +
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: Do you want me to ask other moderators and such to become Ubuntu member ?
<mako> ubuntu_demon: yes.. i think people that put in significant time in leadership roles in the forums should be
* Mez pokes Ryan and gets him to jump on IRC (if he's around)
<ubuntu_demon> mako: Okay I will
<mako> Kamion, elmo: any feelings?
<\sh> is there any possibility to feed the forum boards to nntp? 
<mako> \sh: lets talk about this after the meeting
<Seveas> fwiw, /me knows ubuntu_demon IRL and he's not a bad guy out there too
<\sh> mako: sure..
<ubuntu_demon> any questions to me ?
<Mez> mako: ubuntu-geek is on his way to vouch for ubuntu_demon 
<elmo> sorry, I'm just trying to catch up on the forums quickly
<Kamion> likewise
<Seveas> oh, and why is it that some parts on the forum are only visible when logged in?
<Seveas> that is crap imao...
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I didn't know since I am always logged in .. which parts  do you mean ?
<Mez> Seveas, thats something to addresa fter the meeting ;)(
<Seveas> Mez, sure, if you know why please tell me later
<elmo> I think I'm happy to ack based on the recommendation of mako and the forum folks
<Kamion> yeah, likewise I think
<Mez> evening mdz :P
<mdz> Mez: yes?
<ubuntu_demon> mdz = ubuntu_geek ?I will continue helping people as a moderator for the foreseeable future. Also I've got some other thoughts/ideas.See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman for some of them. Maybe it would be nice to blog about some of them on Planet Ubuntu.
<ubuntu_demon> sorry
<Mez> mdz, I was just greeting you
<Kamion> it's hard for somebody who doesn't follow the fora full-time to have a feel for what somebody does
<Seveas> Kamion, that's why I suggested more forum-people-presence at CC meetings
<ubuntu_demon> I accidentally pasted again :-P
<mdz> Mez: ":P"?
<Seveas> it will be a nice task for member(-to-be) ubuntu_demon to arranhe that
<Mez> mdz it was just a smiley, I use them all the time :P
<mdz> ubuntu_demon: no, I am not ubuntu_geek
<ubuntugeek> hello :)
<Mez> ubuntugeek, = ubuntu-geek
<ubuntu_demon> hi ubuntugeek :)
<dholbach> where are we now?
<ubuntugeek> hey guys :)
<ubuntugeek> not sure if i am too late but ubuntu_demon has done tons for the forums so he gets my vote..
<elmo> ok, so that's three acks, shall we move on?
* \sh lost the string 
<mako> yes
<Seveas> yes please :) 
<ubuntu_demon> thnx guys :)
<mako> #
<mako> AlexanderDomanski
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, welcom aboard the Ubuntu ship
<Seveas> send a signed CoC to mako
<adomanski> Thank You Mako
<ubuntu_demon> Seveas: explain about that CoC in private
<adomanski> At the moment I am working as a news poster and wiki administrator at ubuntu-de.org. Till now I have been writing lots of german documentation and have been writing in the german forum. I am also working on an better rescue mode for Ubuntu, the new idea pool (topic today) a small usability study for the upcoming breezy release, some small tools to improve Breezy (nothing official yet), testing Breezy and thinking about usabilit
<adomanski> y in general. My goals for Ubuntu would be to make it even easier and to be encouraged enough to go other ways.
<ogra> adomanski, you do ltsp stuff ?
<adomanski> yes ogra 
<Seveas> adomanski, sounds good. Any ubuntu-de guys around to vouch for you?
* littlepaul votes
<dholbach> adomanski: what do you mean by "be encouraged enough to go other ways"? "other ways" like in derivatives?
<ogra> adomanski, we should talk in #edubuntu after the meeting ;)
<mako> littlepaul: votes in what way? :)
<adomanski> dholbach: go go other ways than other distribution
<adomanski> ogra: ok
<ogra> :)
<smurfix> +1 for adomanski
<Sturmkind> +1 for adomanski 
<kinjoo> +1 for adomanski
* Mez abstains
<Kamion> adomanski: I haven't heard about the rescue mode improvements; feel free to get in touch with me offline about that, since I'm the main rescue mode author
<\sh> ogra: he is a good candidate for motu ;)
<mdke> Mez, what from?
<ogra> +1 for adomanski if he does mdz the favor of a ltsp test install ;)
<adomanski> Kamion: ok. send me an irc memo. documentation is atm only in german
<littlepaul> mako, i support and agree to adomanski description
<Kamion> adomanski: the link on your wiki page is dead
<Mez> mdke - a + or a -
<adomanski> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexanderDomanski should work
<mako> adomanski: i woudl sugggest that your wiki page be a bit more developed
<\sh> adomanski: u should join motu..with your skills...
<Kamion> adomanski: no, the IsolatedRescueEnvironment one
<adomanski> \sh: i can't do packaging
<adomanski> Kamion: seems to be deleted
<ogra> adomanski, asy to learn ;)
<\sh> adomanski: ???  DPKG packaging
<Kamion> as is BreezyUsabilityStudy
<\sh> it's written on your page
<ogra> s/asy/easy
<adomanski> \sh: not THAT good
<Kamion> not good enough for MOTU?
<ogra> adomanski, doesnt matter.... its a matter of training :)
<adomanski> Kamion: no. I would not like to see my packages in universe ;=
<adomanski> ogra: sure
<mdke> the page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexanderDomanski
<\sh> adomanski: well...motu is a way to improve 
<Seveas> adomanski, why don't you want that?
<ogra> adomanski, we can teach you everything you need... the only thing you have to do is getting practice yourself :)
<adomanski> \sh: i guess it is. but i am not., well ready for it. you see?
<\sh> and we need some python guys
<adomanski> \sh: give me some time.
<\sh> adomanski: I wasn't ready at all ... anyways...
<ogra> adomanski, just try it... if you cant make it you can still step back ...
<adomanski> no really. being an ubuntu member is just enough for me atm
<dholbach> adomanski: don't worry, we won't make you sign a contract now :-)
<adomanski> dholbach: rofl
<\sh> dholbach: well...motu is a contract with the devil^h^h^h^h^hogra,-)
<adomanski> ;D
<Nafallo> haha
<Seveas> we're dwelling off-topic a bit
<Kamion> I tend to agree that the wiki page needs to be fleshed out; it's hard for me to see what you've done as opposed to what you're interested in doing, if you see what I mean
<elmo> yeah
<Seveas> anybody want to vouch for/vote against adomanski ?
<mako> adomanski: want to work on documenting and linking the things you've worked on and then come back to the next meeting?
<mako> adomanski: i'm happy to work with you in the next two weeks to do this
<mako> adomanski: it's not a comment on the work you've done just.. just how visible it is the council
<ogra> MOTU would be too :)
<adomanski> mako: im on holidays then
<Seveas> adomanski, then try two weeks later :)
<mako> adomanski: well.. if you work on the page and talk about it first.. we won't require you to show up again
<adomanski> mako: what do you mean?
<mako> adomanski: well.. work on the page before hand, run it by me.. and then you don't need to actually who up at the meeting
<mako> adomanski: so being on holiday shouldn't be an issue
<mako> adomanski: is that alright?
<adomanski> mako: ok. I will do that.
<Kamion> thanks dude
<mako> JonathanJesse
<mako> you're up
<mdke> he is not here right now
<mako> alright next
<Seveas> gothcat
<gothcat> I have been translating in Rosetta so far and I will continue to do so. Yesterday I became an approved member of Ubuntu Swedish Translators. I will continue translating and maybe join the artwork team.
<mako> JennyLw
<gothcat> hi 
<ogra> mako, gothcat
<Nafallo> I can vouch for her and tell you that she is nervous :-)
<Kamion> have you been lurking on the art team to date? I haven't heard much from it (no reflection on them, I just haven't been paying attention)
<Kamion> so curious
<mako> is there a way we can get rosetta stats?
<adomanski> users page
<Nafallo> mako: there is a link on her wiki :-)
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/people/gothcat/+translations
<mako> i see that
<mako> ....now
* ogra knows gothcat already made good improvement suggestions for the new icon theme to the artwork team
<mdke> nice work :D
<gothcat> Kamion: right now its much about icons..
<ogra> Kamion, i'm there all the time... still sorting themselves out
<elmo> thos translation stats are kind of lame
* Kamion gets briefly lost in launchpad links
<elmo> err, not gothcats
<mdke> elmo, yeah that is a real new feature
<elmo> I mean the page in general.  the LP team needs some stats pr0n investment
<Nafallo> elmo: agreed
<mako> gothcat: how long have you been doing translations?? how many messages (order of magnitude) have you do so far?
<mako> elmo: dude, be careful making ridiculous suggestion for lp
<gothcat> sice rosetta was launched
<mako> elmo: thhey will be accepted
<ogra> lol
<Nafallo> I've watched her made a lot, also filled a bug about them not being seen :-P
<gothcat> I dont know how many I dont count them
<Nafallo> mako: she's been using evenings for it atleast :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: jealous? ;)
<Nafallo> and sometimes nights
<Nafallo> \sh: you got me ;-)
<mako> is there anyone else here who can vouch for gothcat and her contributions
<mako> ?
<mako> i am no thrilled with the reporting funcionality of lp but am not going to hold that against gothcat :)
* ogra vouches for her icon ideas...
<Kamion> I'm generally OK with acking people based on translation work, obviously
<Kamion> so fine with me, despite lp's dodgy stats :)
* mako is fine as well
<elmo> yeah, ack
<mako> el	?
<Nafallo> I can put my eyes as translation status report tools or something :-)
* Seveas brb - cat emergency
<mdke> ouch
<gothcat> thanks guys :D
<mdke> welcome gothcat, nice work
<Kamion> somebody please raise stats issues as a Rosetta bug, if it's not there already
<Mez> gothcat, signed CoC, on mako's desk :P
<ogra> welcome gothcat :)
<mdke> Kamion, i'm sure they are working on it, because that feature has only just been implemented afaik
<Nafallo> yay! :-)
<gothcat> Mez: okey
<Kamion> mdke: fair enough
<\sh> gothcat: Nafallo will show u how to do this...and welcome :)
<gothcat> Thanx
<mako> alright
<Seveas> welcome gothcat 
<mako> is there anyone else at teh end of the list who is her enow?
<mako> people that didn't show before but are here now?
<mako> going once..
<mako> going twice..
<Virtuall> well... i was discussed before (DankoAlexeyev)
<Mez> mako, can you read my /msg please ?
<Virtuall> and i was there :)
<mako> alright
<Virtuall> but i had nothing to show so ... :)
<mako> Virtuall: ok.. work with me in the next two weeks
<mako> alright then
<mako> lets move on
<mako> Mez wants to move backports stuff up to here
<Virtuall> currently not much more to show either. ok.
<mako> and i'm ok with that
<Seveas> Virtuall, look at the top of the needs-to-show-up list....
<mako> Virtuall: alright.. then we'll work on it
<mako> backports team
<mako> last time we decided that we didn't need to vote at the time for the team
<mdke> what's the issue?
<mako> because we'd already agreed that we wanted to create it but wanted them to lead with work
<mako> it sounds like that has happened.. the list was created, etc
<Kamion> isn't backports team just agenda cruft? it's been there three meetings running now, I think
<Mez> 2
<mdke> lol
<mako> Kamion: it was removed and readded
<Mez> this time mako told me to put it in:p
<ogra> yep,they are wildly spamming the buillogs with ~hoary versions :)
<mdke> awww how come a separate mailing list rather than ubuntu-devel?
<mako> Mez: you guys have a team now
<Mez> yes, we do
<mako> Mez: what were you asking for this time?
<mako> recognition of you at the contact?
<mako> i can't remember what was at issue this time
<Mez> mako: you told me to come here :
<Mez> to "rubber stamp" the whole thing
<mdz> mako: if the team is official now, it should be added to the Teams page
<Seveas> so apparently the team has no official status yet
<Mez> there - mdz will explain
<mako> well, since i thought we agreed to this before, i'm ahppy to agree to it now
<Kamion> this is getting rather ridiculous, we've approved it twice now
<mdz> that's all I've got; I wasn't present for the previous discussion
<mako> mdz: alright.. let's add it to that page
<mako> Mez: you have what you want as far as i can tell
<mdz> mako: meaning "I will add it to that page" or "would you please add it to that page"?
<Mez> mako: I emailed you and asked whether there was anything left to do, you said yes and said it just needed rubber stamping to make it "official"
<mako> there are some communication issues here in regards to this team and its status :)
<mako> mdz: meaning, "i will add it to that page"
* Mez shakes head
<mdz> mako: we should announce the creation of new teams somewhere
<mako> mdz: yes, we should
<Seveas> mdz, announce@lists
<mdz> not ubuntu-announce, but perhaps ubuntu-devel
<\sh> ubuntu-announce ML?
<ogra> mdz, backports was widely announced
<mako> Mez: that might have been some time ago.. or i was confused at the time.. in any situation, it should be fine
<mdz> ogra: oh?
<mako> or ubuntu-news
<mdz> ogra: neither I nor the backports team lead heard the announcement
<ogra> mdz,  on all mailing lists and i think Mez put it in any channel topic
<\sh> ogra: it wasn't the official backports were a "secret"
<mako> Mez: remind me about the announcement tomorrow and we'll send it out
<Mez> mako: it was 4 days ago
<\sh> ogra: since 4 days or 5
<mako> ok.. maybe this is my fault
* Mez made an announcement
<ogra> \sh, yep
<Mez> on -devel and -users
<mako> Mez: we can send it to -news
<Mez> and put in topic
<Mez> :D
<Mez> anyways
<mako> alright
<mako> lets move on
* Mez dissapears
<mdz> it is not necessary to put it in the topic
<\sh> and that backports are official now, is not widely spread 
<Seveas> kinjoo / Yann2 
<mako> ubuntu-europe
<Yann2> :)
<mako> whats up?
<ogra> \sh, its on ubuntu-users....
<Yann2> hope this won't be _too_ long.
<kinjoo> Yann2 go ahead
<mako> Yann2: yeah, lets hope :)
<Yann2> so some paste..
<Yann2> The french team got some hosting problem a few weeks ago.
<Yann2> We asked mako for help... we were told we would have to find some hosting ourselves, as the linode proposal was not enough for our website.
<mdz> Mez: there should be an announcement on the backports.ubuntuforums.org page pointing to the new page as well
<ubuntu_demon> IMO it should wide spread that backports is official. This is really important for users I think
<mdz> Mez: are you able to make changes there?
<Yann2> We figured out on #ubuntu-locoteams that the German team had some problems too, so we decided to initiate a common fundraising program for both teams.
<Yann2> It worked well, we got plenty of donations, and lots of companies got in touch with us proposing some help, in many domains.
<Yann2> We need an official status for that. We were thinking of creating an Ubuntu Europe foundation, to promote Ubuntu in Europe, and to share amongst european teams what we might be able to get for free/buy.
<\sh> ogra: should be on planet...
<Yann2> We think sharing the costs for stuff(flyers, tee shirts, hosting...) would be cheaper if they're shared. And btw the others teams could benefit of the propositions that have been made to Ubuntu-fr.
<ogra> mdz, its also on the forums
<Yann2> It'd be an Not-for-profit organisation in France, just like the Mozilla Fundation; smurfix and I already propose ourselves as founders.
<Yann2> We're not asking Canonical or Ubuntu for money (well we won't refuse any donation, though :) ). We just want Ubuntu Foundation to recognize the Ubuntu Europe Foundation (or whatever it'll be called) as one of it's affiliates.
<Yann2> It won't replace any of the local Community Teams. In fact I hope it'll provide communication between them.
<Yann2> [that's it, sorry for flooding :/] 
<mdz> Mez: backports.ubuntuforums.org doesn't even mention the new repository
<Kamion> the Ubuntu Foundation is not really a properly active organisation yet; we have not yet had a board meeting as distinct from Ubuntu Community Council meetings, for example
<mako> JanC: 
<mdz> Kamion: the foundation already has a wikipedia entry though ;-)
<mako> mdz: really, i should to read it
<mako> i know very little about it :)
<\sh> wow
<Kamion> Ubuntu Europe also seems like a slightly strange name given that the Ubuntu Foundation is, if based anywhere, based in Europe :-)
<Yann2> btw,  just like the Mozilla Fundation; ->  just like the Mozilla Europe Fundation;
<mako> i believe i suggested that already
<Kamion> Mozilla is much more a US organisation due to its Netscape roots, though
<Treenaks> better late than never.. I'm here
<mako> Yann2: well.. before we go about creating local versions of the foundation,l we might want to, yknow, create the foundation
<ogra> hey Treenaks 
<Kamion> Canonical's headquarters are in the UK, although we're fairly global
<Treenaks> hi ogra 
<elmo> Kamion: IM damn it
<elmo> .gov.uk might be listening ;)
<Yann2> mako > i thought it was already done.
<\sh> Kamion: hmmm...it's a _canonical_ location, right? ,-)
<mako> before we create splinter or support organizations, we should try to get the foundation really off the ground
<Seveas> mako, agreed
* mdke agrees
* Seveas thinks: let's put this on hold until that happened
<mako> Yann2: if the paperwork is done, then that's it.. i haven't heard anything about it and i'm supposedly one of the advisors
<Yann2> also, we really need to set up that _now_.
<elmo> Yann2: why?
<mako> i think we should give the ubuntu foundation some time to figure out what it can and cannot do
<Yann2> we got plenty of offers we can not accept because of our unofficial status
<mdke> i also have misgivings about the wisdow of creating a splinter of the foundation run by volunteers rather than by canonical employees
<Yann2> and we need them
<mako> Yann2: listen, if you guys have people that want to donate to your locos
<mako> Yann2: but need a charity to do so, we can provide that place
<Yann2> as a french association?
<Seveas> Yann2, is that 'french' required? 
<mako> Yann2: when i said that we as the foundation probably can't go around buying loco's hardware,  that didn't meant that we wouldn't be able to accept and deploy earmarked for locos
<ogra> mdke, s/canonical/foundation :)
<\sh> mako: hmm..i think it's more in the sense of "Gentoo Foundation" and "Gentoo e.V." in Germany. 
<mako> Yann2: in any situation, i really think we need to let the parent be created and get off the ground before we create spliter organizations
<smurfix> some countries do require charities to be local :-/
<mako> smurfix: yes, that's true
<Yann2> Seveas > yeap, there is some taxes issues
<Kamion> so if it's solely a French organisation (for e.g. tax rebate purposes) it should be called Ubuntu France surely ...
<\sh> smurfix: charities == e.V.?
<mako> so, if what you want is a specific non-profit for a couple loco-teams, that's fine
<Yann2> there will be one, too.
* mako nods to Kamion
<smurfix> \sh: gemeinntziger eV
<\sh> smurfix: yes
<mako> but that doesn't need to become the ubuntu foundation europe
<Yann2> the fact is, we're collecting money together with ubuntu-de
<Yann2> we got a common bank account...
<\sh> smurfix: hard to establish for these things here in germany...as I saw with gentoo e.v.
<mako> Yann2: ok.. if you're going to create an organization, there is going to be a lot involved
<Yann2> it should not be called ubuntu-FR
<Yann2> mako > i know, i'm working on it for a lot of time now.
<mdke> mako, ++
<Kamion> um - Europe > France + Germany ;-)
<mako> everything from trademark licenses to relationships with the ubuntu foundation which is not even off the ground
<Yann2> Kamion > i got in touch with MANY people, many locoteam leaders. It's not just germany and france.
<mako> Kamion: depends on who you are talking to :)
<elmo> Yann2: that's nice and all, but the foundation IS based in Europe
<mako> Yann2: i don't think this proposal is ready for the council
<Yann2> what is the ubuntu foundation supposed to do?
<mako> Yann2: these are questions we are still figuring out
<mdz> Yann2: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuFoundation
<Yann2> if we can got the stuff we're asking for, then fine.
<elmo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation
<mako> Yann2: which is why this converation is very premature
<adomanski> you see we want something controlled directly by the communities
<mako> adomanski: he wants to see a foundation to buy his locos servers
<Yann2> mako > about every locoteam leader in europe knows about ubuntu europe
<Yann2> they, until now, agreed there should be that organisation
<Seveas> Yann2, s/that/a/
<mdke> no, our team is not agreed about it
<adomanski> mako: and to do marketing and organizing stuff
<Seveas> and the Ubuntu foundation may just as well fill that void
<mako> alright
<mako> lets stop this here
<Yann2> I got some contacts, including HP, promising to give us servers, money, once we got official.
<mako> Yann2: if hp is trying to donate servers for european locos, we can accept those through the normal ubuntu foundation
<mako> Yann2: you haven't mentioned this to me in any of our private mails
<Yann2> mako > you didn't answer on irc
<mako> Yann2: you were merely talking in terms of us buying you hardware
<mdke> don't forget there is a significant amount of mutual learning that we can do via the existing setup: we have a common irc channel and a mailing list.
<Yann2> i tried a couple of times.
<mako> Yann2: i've been traveling
<mdke> the existing structure can do much
<Yann2> that was before we got the money :/
<mako> Yann2: you should have sent email
<mako> in any situation
<mako> this is a *huge* issue
<Yann2> mdke told me to come debate that here.
<mako> we've got to figure something out in regards to the ubuntu foundation
<mako> right
<mako> i'm going to suggest we create a new meeting 
<mako> to just talk about this
<Yann2> fine to me.
<mako> probably with jane silber, myself, you, smurfix, mark, etc
<\sh> actually, I don't like the idea...cause it gives too much of troubles..as I realised in the past with my gentoo project
<mako> and whoever else
<mako> Yann2: write up u a draft agenda of issues you need covered
<Kamion> I'm in complete agreement with mako here BTW; the foundation seems like a much better structure for dealing with donations like this, since it's going to be doing a certain amount of that kind of thing anyway
<Seveas> mako, 'this' being thr ubuntu foundation + Yann2's plans i hope...
<Yann2> btw, it's just about copyrights. we don't really need any help from the ubuntu foundation.
<elmo> me too
<mako> we may need to postpone this until we know what the foundation can and can't do
<elmo> Yann2: dude, you're using the Ubuntu name
<mdke> \sh, complete agreement: i don't think the ramifications of this project have been thought through
<mako> if that doesn't fit your timescale, that may just be life
<elmo> you absolutely need help from the Foundation and/or Canonical
<mako> better to not screw up at the beginning when setting this up
<Yann2> elmo > As I am with Ubuntu fr :)
<mako> alright
<\sh> Yann2: dealing with trademarks and copyrights is a quite difficult game...and you will pay a hell of a lot for lawyers..
<mako> Yann2: send me a proposed agenda.. lets continue this later :)
<Yann2> ok.
<\sh> Yann2: and this money is better to be spend in freedom toasters for ubuntu in europe then anything else
<kinjoo> +1 for the seperate meeting. this needs to be solved
<Kamion> Yann2: the locoteams are something we've been doing for a long time. you're proposing to set up basically an alternative to the Ubuntu Foundation, which is a very different matter
<mako> let's move on
<mako> ubuntufutureproject
<Yann2> Kamion > it's not really an alternative :)
<smurfix> \sh: don't worry ;-)
<Yann2> we won't be developing ubuntu
<Yann2> well.
<adomanski> Thank you Mako.
<adomanski> Did everybody read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFutureProject
<\sh> smurfix: hehe :) I had my experience :(
<mako> i did
<Kamion> UbuntuFutureProject seems like something that should just be developed and tried out; does it need to be brought to the CC for a particular reason?
<mako> adomanski: it's unclear what you want to do and why you think you need CC approval
<mako> Kamion: what kamion said, except less clear
<Seveas> adomanski, the Ubuntu brainstorming sessions take place at the conferences
<adomanski> mako: first it was Yann2 idea to bring this up to CC. 2. I would like to see this as a part of the official homepage
<Kamion> it seems like a reasonable thing to try, although inevitably whether developers find that it's an efficient use of time to go to it for ideas is entirely dependent on how good the design/implementation is
<mako> Seveas: well, making that accessible to folks not a conferences seems like a plan
* infinito is away: Estoy ocupado
<mdke> adomanski, if it works, maybe you can get it written up on the website
<Kamion> adomanski: it'd have to be developed first before we could commit to that
<mako> adomanski: the work flow here is basically to build something unofficially and then, once it is de facto offical, add it
<ogra> mako, i thought thats why the udu wiki is still open for adding stuff
<Kamion> adomanski: we'll also have a much better basis for having a conversation once there's something to look at :)
<adomanski> mako: ok mako.
<mako> adomanski: build something compelling.. you don't need our permission and then come to us when you think it's solid
<adomanski> Kamion: I know it myself.
<mako> of course
<mako> that said
<mako> if you're interested in helping out with this, you should work with adomanski :)
<mako> i agree that the ideapool could really be replaced with something better
<Kamion> so since it's something you're trying to build with the express purpose of being useful to the development community, you'd need to make sure to get feedback from the development community pretty regularly
<adomanski> I just didn't want to spend a week of work to create something nobody wants
<\sh> is not a wiki the best place for ideas?
<Kamion> otherwise it becomes yet another pile of stuff nobody looks at
<adomanski> \sh: wikis are very bad for discussions
<mdke> \sh, people sometimes don't look at it
<\sh> mdke: but this is not a problem of a wiki
<dholbach> adomanski: a wiki page with an announce on the mailing list maybe?
<Kamion> I do tend to think that ubuntu-devel@lists is a much better place for discussions
* mako nods to Kamion 
<\sh> adomanski: u think? enhance moin moin :)
<adomanski> developers discuss their ideas on mailing lists. but this is about _users_ guys
<Kamion> wiki pages are better for making sure stuff doesn't get lost
<mdke> \sh, it is to a certain extent
<Kamion> adomanski: you want to get developers' attention, you got to work *with* developers
<mdke> different tools work for different things
<Kamion> adomanski: and you're talking explicitly about third-party developers here.
<Seveas> adomanski, if you want to involve users in development ===> MOTU
<\sh> mdke: but wikis were invented as a idea well...scratch board for ideas and comments on this..
<Kamion> Seveas: not if it's about fundamental bits of the OS
<Seveas> Kamion, true
<ogra> adomanski, you should just build a communication bridge to MOTU
<Kamion> which IdeaPool often is
<adomanski> Kamion: we need developers attention, sure. But I think users should give their ideas. Ubuntu is about users.
<mako> alright
<mako> lets move on
<mako> kinjoo: hey, you had a subpoint
<Kamion> adomanski: there is no point doing anything if you dismiss developers' needs, e.g. time constraints
<mako> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress/PromotingUbuntu
<ogra> Kamion, i thought for the fundamental things the udu wiki spec process was still the preferred way...
<\sh> adomanski: that's what motus are for....listen to the users, improve ubuntu linux, and put it after some time to main views 
<Kamion> ogra: yeah
<kinjoo> jo, we should discuss some promotion issuesa
<ogra> so we alrady have such a process in place...
<kinjoo> first of all how about a ml for those dicussions?
<ogra> its just not used..
<mako> kinjoo: yeah, lets do it
<adomanski> \sh: Yeah nice. And users want to scratch down stugg.
<adomanski> stuff
<ubuntu_demon> regarding promotion .. I'm discussing an unofficial Ubuntu Commercial on the forums (see my wiki)
<\sh> adomanski: yes...see wikipedia, or wiki.ubuntu...so many pages from plain users ...
<kinjoo> then, how should deal with issues when collaborating with other projects?
<kinjoo> as this includes the foundation obviously I can wait for this to settle down
<Seveas> Another thing about promotion: is The Fridge ever going to happen?
<ogra> Seveas, good question
<adomanski> \sh: You guys are developers (I guess), _you_ can use mailing lists. Did you ever think about how complicated it is for a user to keep track of everything without knowing how mailing lists work? Does not seem so to me. 
<mako> kinjoo: yeah, to the continue the meeting
<Seveas> adomanski, we have moved on already please discuss that in private
<mdke> --> bed, night all
<\sh> adomanski: lets take this to motu or somewhere else...:) 
<\sh> night mdke
<adomanski> \sh alright
<mako> kinjoo: to continue the whole "putting this offf"
<ubuntu_demon> mdke: good night
<mako> since this isn't a concrete proposal yet, it's probably best to put it off
<mako> i think the thinking is good
<kinjoo> ok, as soon as we have a ml for this, we can discuss that issues on that ml
<\sh> mako: can I shortly interrupt with an important statement for channel ops?
<mako> this is good thinking and writing.. but that makes sense
<Kamion> so I think it's hard to answer the visibility of Canonical's logo stuff etc. until we have an idea what the Ubuntu Foundation's position is
<mako> don't wait for the mailing lists
<mako> please go ahead and use sounder for th is
<mako> prove the need for the mailing list first
<mako> there is nothing stopping you from going ahead with this n ow
<kinjoo> mako ok!
<mako> kinjoo: awesome :)
<mako> kinjoo: thanks dude
<mako> i can tell you've been thinking about this stuff
<mako> and i appreciate the work and thought that you are putting into this
<Seveas> yeah, sounder@ is a great place to get this thing started
<mako> alright
<mako> is there any other business
<kinjoo> mako can we use #ubuntu-meeting as well as long as it is not used for meeting?
<mako> IS THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS
<\sh> yes
<mako> kinjoo: yes, that's fine
<ubuntu_demon> 1 question .. what is sounder ?
<\sh> YES
<Seveas> mako, yes, \sh wants :)
<Seveas> ubuntu_demon, another mailinglist
<mako> ubuntu_demon: it's the everything-is-on-topic list
<\sh> ok....I know some channel mods/ops are listening now
<Kamion> if you want to ask questions of Canonical about sponsorship and such, it's probably best to ask Canonical directly
<mako> ubuntu_demon: mostly for social non-development or support issues
<ubuntu_demon> ok thnx
<mako> \sh: right
<mako> \sh: go ahead
<Kamion> mako: info@canonical.com would be the correct address for that, right?
<\sh> We had some issues with "Logging ubuntu-Channels" without mentioning it in the topic for newbies
<mako> yes
<mako> email info@canonical.com
<\sh> please put in your topics of all channels which are logged: "This Channel is Logged: Please visit <url here> for the log"
<Seveas> \sh, includeing #ubuntu?
<Seveas> The topic is crowded already there...
<\sh> Seveas: including...(actually I don't know if it's written there)
<Seveas> and for the locoteams locobot announces it
<Seveas> locoteam-channels i mean
<\sh> but this is really important...cause logging without knowledge of the user is not nice
<Seveas> \sh, I disagree
<\sh> Seveas: #ubuntu-de didn't
<dholbach> nobody reads the topic
<Seveas> IRC channels are always logged by clients
<\sh> Seveas: but not on the web in public
<Seveas> True, but I don't really see the need to abuse the topic for it...
<Kamion> I really don't want something that verbose in #ubuntu-devel's topic; the space is valuable
<Kamion> I wouldn't object to just the URL
<Seveas> Kamion, just like in here :)
* mako nods to Kamion yes
<Seveas> that might be a good idea though
<\sh> Kamion: ubuntu-devel is something special...but local ubuntu channels should mention it, cause they're not logged in that way like #ubuntu-meeting
<\sh> or #ubuntu-devel
<\sh> I don't mind...but some people are not writing good about it...and the written word is a strong weapon
<Seveas> true
* mako nods
<Seveas> since i'm the topic-gardener in #ubuntu anyway, I'll put it in
<mako> so...
<mako> Seveas: alright
<\sh> or announce it every 4h with the log bot
<Seveas> \sh, ewwwwwwwwwwww no
<\sh> ,-)
<Seveas> that's so friggen obnoxious
<mako> more imporant in #u anyway
<mako> alright
<Kamion> right
<smurfix> \sh: my bot sends a NOTICE to everybody when they enter a channel for the first time
<mako> #u-d is a different crowd.. should know better
<\sh> smurfix: actually not to rince :(
<mako> ] 
<Seveas> Any other things..?
<smurfix> \sh: I added that after he complained ...
<mako> right
<\sh> smurfix: u see ;)
<mako> ANY OTHER BUSINESS...
<mako> going once
<mako> going twice...
<Seveas> yes
<Seveas> (kidding :))
<mako> bastard
<mako> GONE
<mako> *gavel*
<mako> Seveas: you had me there :)
<mako> alright
<mako> next meeting should be in two week
<Seveas> 14:00 UTC?
<mako> august 16
<mako> 12:UTC i think
<Kamion> I will not be at the next meeting; little teensy detail of being on honeymoon
<Seveas> I'll update the wiki/topic in here
<Seveas> ok 12:00 UTC
<elmo> Kamion: slacker
<mako> Kamion: unacceptable
<\sh> Kamion: have fun dude :)
<Kamion> :-)
<mako> cool
<ogra> Kamion, oh, already ?
<Seveas> Kamion, congratulations
<mako> mark should be able to make a UTC12 meeting
<dholbach> :)
<mako> alright everyone
<mako> thanks for the stamina once again
<Kamion> ta
<\sh> Kamion: conrats btw...:) 
* mako is going to try sleeping
<\sh> +g
<mako> or coffee
<mako> better idea
<ubuntu_demon> okay guys .. I'll try to be there next meeting
<kinjoo> coffee? me too!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<\sh> ok...gone to bed
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ || 3 Aug 22:00 UTC: MOTU http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting || 5 Aug 20:00 UTC: NUN http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda || 9 Aug 20:00 UTC: Tech Board http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || 11 Aug 22:00 UTC: Doc Team http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda || 16 Aug 12:00 UTC: Community Council http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-07-31
<freeflying|away> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 02 Aug 04:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 04:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Aug 04:00: Technical Board
<bmon> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 31 2006, 16:03:25 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 day
<bmon> @now madrid
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Madrid: July 31 2006, 18:03:39 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 day
<GNAMMM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-01
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 01 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 15:00: Technical Board
<Seveas> Burgwork, re: your blog: I would LOVE it if it were easy to use gai to add a repository -- like some sort of deb file containing repo info, gpg key and .desktop files 
<imbrandon> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board
<Seveas> @now amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: August 01 2006, 20:21:22 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 hour 38 minutes
<Toadstool> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
<mc44> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 01 2006, 19:13:35 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 46 minutes
<pitti> hi
<zul> hey pitti
* ogra hands pitti the fireproof underwear 
<ogra> :)
<pitti> thanks, we might need them
<ogra> yup :)
<pitti> although I had good echo on my mail
<pitti> not much, though
<zul> which email?
<ogra> i agree that its no suitable to enable it by default ... (even though i often thought about it for ltsp stuff)
<Toadstool> zul: the one about zeroconf, I suppose :)
<Toadstool> hi here
<zul> heh i tuned out for zeroconf a while ago
<Toadstool> zul: just a guess as avahi is listed in this meeting agenda ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mjg59> Evening
<Keybuk> do we have an mdz?
<mjg59> mdz: Here?
<mjg59> Seemingly not right now
<Keybuk> SMS sent
<smurf> .. how do you send a short message service? I tend to restrict myself to actual short messages. ;-)
<Keybuk> smurf: pedant
<Gloubiboulga> evening all
<smurf> Keybuk: language is strange
<mjg59> Keybuk: Shall we get on with it?
<zul> afternoon
<Keybuk> yup
<mjg59> Ok
<Keybuk> no reply, let's get on with it
<mjg59> So, core-dev members?
<mjg59> Looks like Guavin and Hobbsee
* tseng waves
<Gloubiboulga> yes
* Gloubiboulga is Gauvain Pocentek
<ogra> seems Hobbsse didnt wake up in time
<Keybuk> Gloubiboulga: you first then
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, let's go with you
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Brief introduction?
<Keybuk> (if somebody can ping hobbsse, please do so)
<Gloubiboulga> ok, here is my wiki page : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gauvain
<Gloubiboulga> (LP account linked on it)
<Gloubiboulga> My point with becoming an core-dev is to be able to work on xubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> i've already worked on it when I became a MOTU, but all the packages are in main now
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: How many Xubuntu core-devs are there right now?
<ogra> one
* janimo raises one hand
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, one: janimo 
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, so that's a pretty good argument :)
<Gloubiboulga> hehe
<janimo> we'll hopefully grow by 100% tonight
<mjg59> janimo: How would you rate Gloubiboulga's contributions?
<janimo> great
<janimo> he has helped a lot
<janimo> and having him work on main packages would helpe even more
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: You mention in your wiki page that you think xubuntu is lacking in some areas. How would you improve those?
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, in two ways: 1. coding (ourself and working with upstream), 2. using already exinstant tools in ubuntu
<mjg59> How close is your relationship with upstream?
<Gloubiboulga> 2. is not always easy, since we try to avoid gnome libs
<ogra> Gloubiboulga, how do you plan to avoid code duplication in the future ? there were some issues in the past ...
<Gloubiboulga> I have not a strong relationship with upstream, since Jani did all the job until now :)
<Gloubiboulga> ogra, cdbs multibuild is the key IMO
<ogra> patching the gnome deps out of the apps ?
<Gloubiboulga> several apps could be build with and without gnome deps
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: How familiar are you with building multiple binaries without using cdbs?
<mdz> mjg59,keybuk: morning
<Gloubiboulga> ogra, we'd like to avoid this as much as possible
<janimo> ogra, that pacthing out is fairly routine. We have yet to come up with the CDBS magic
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, I've worked on the goffice and gnumeric multibuild
<Gloubiboulga> (plain debhelper)
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, cool
<Gloubiboulga> getting the same result with CDBS is still a problem
<Gloubiboulga> but I'm sure we'll find solutions (working with jbailey maybe?)
<mjg59> Gloubiboulga: So while there's some desire to avoid Xubuntu turning into something that's effectively identical to gnome, presumably you're keen on supporting the same basic infrastructure? (Stuff like hal, for instance)
<dholbach> I'm happy with Gloubiboulga's work on goffice and gnumeric - there were some issues, he worked hard on getting them fixed, did the merges with Debian and talked to the Debian maintainer to get the patch merged back (as it was not trivial)
<pitti> Gloubiboulga: it's not a problem (it's not more effort than with plain debhelper), but not as convenient as it could be
<Gloubiboulga> mjg59, sure, Xubuntu is ubuntu based, we don't forget that
<janimo> mjg59: we already depend on hal for PM and removable volumes
<janimo> and soon laptop keys I hope
<Gloubiboulga> pitti, we wan't something that can easily maintainable, since gnome packagers will work on the same packages too
<mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
<mjg59> Keybuk, mdz: ?
<janimo> and it's ok with being almost identical to gnome as far as looks and some features go, if we can get there with less resource usage
<seb128> Gloubiboulga: cdbs is easy to maintain ;)
<Keybuk> Gloubiboulga: what kind of integration with things like network manager, gnome power manager, etc. do you plan for XFCE?
<Keybuk> we're increasingly using these in Ubuntu
<pitti> Gloubiboulga: let's talk about this in a separate discussion, I'm sure we can figure something out
<Gloubiboulga> seb128, sure, but with lots and lots of hacks for the multibuilds, it might be a little harder ;)
<seb128> Gloubiboulga: not that many hack, it's shorted than the debhelper variant
<seb128> anyway, that's not really the topic now ;)
<Gloubiboulga> Keybuk, well, that's part of the "avoid duplication" spec. gnome power management for example could be easily used in xubuntu
<ogra> the problem will rather be maintaining the patches than the build system i guess :)
<janimo> Keybuk: I have looked at both and would use them if we can get them build gnome-less. They both dep on libgnomeui which needs all the rest of gnome libs
<Keybuk> doesn't that break their GNOME functionality?
<seb128> Gloubiboulga: it's using gconf, isn't that an issue for you?
<janimo> Keybuk: some apps only depend on gnome libs because of legacy code. Some uses are of course valid
<mdz> gconf is fairly light as the issues go
<Gloubiboulga> seb128, no, we have gconf too on xubuntu
<janimo> seb128: we consider gconf ok for now, compared to the rest of the libs
<janimo> it is used by gdm anyway
<seb128> ok, I though you were discussing with mvo some time ago about getting update tools working without gconf or something like that
<seb128> no, gdm doesn't use gconf
<seb128> but it should, the gdm.conf is not fun to maintain :p
<janimo> Keybuk: I try to bring this up on gnome-devel, there's an ongoing thread which touches on libgnomeui in particluar
<janimo> seb128: yes update-manager work w/o gconf
<janimo> that was an issue because of the gnome python bindings, which even if you only use gconf-python brings all the libs since the bindings are monolithic
<seb128> right
* ogra didnt intend to turn Gloubiboulgas application in a packaging discussion with his question, sorry
<mdz> heh
<janimo> seb128: gdm uses gconf via keyring or some other dependency then
<janimo> for gdm-setup
<Gloubiboulga> hi mdz 
<airjump> hello
<seb128> janimo: I doubt of it
<Keybuk> mdz: any questions?
<seb128> janimo: let's have a look on that later, but gdm doesn't use the keyring nor gconf and they got ride of some of the libgnome* functions they were using
<janimo> seb128: hmm, something used gconf in dapper, via gdm. Looks like not keyring then
<mjg59> seb128: janimo: Can we leave this until later?
<janimo> seb128: I know I sent the patch for getting rid of libgnome*
<janimo> mjg59: sure soryy
<seb128> mjg59: that's just what I said
<mjg59> No problem :)
<mjg59> mdz: Going once...
<mjg59> mdz: Twice...
<mdz> mjg59: stand by
<airjump> bye
<mdz> mjg59: ok
<mjg59> mdz: Any questions?
<mdz> mjg59: settled out of band
<mjg59> Ok. Votes?
<Keybuk> +1
<mdz> +1
<ogra> Gloubiboulga, congrats !
<Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: yay!!! congrats' :)
<dholbach> congratulations Gloubiboulga!
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: \o/
<imbrandon> Gloubiboulga: congrats ;)
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, janimo, thanks for the support
<pitti> Gloubiboulga: welcome!
<Keybuk> Hobbsee hasn't woken up, so we'll move onto ubuntu-dev candidates
<Gloubiboulga> thanks pitti, Toadstool, imbrandon 
<Gloubiboulga> and ogra!
<mjg59> Various ubuntu-dev candidates on the list
<mjg59> Any of you here?
* imbrandon is here
<Keybuk> ttyfscker, azeem, imbrandon, tepsipakki, "Juliano Bastos"
<imbrandon> ...
<Keybuk> azeem: you first then
<bddebian> azeem++\
<mjg59> azeem: Brief introduction to yourself?
<azeem> I am Michael Banck, my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelBanck.  I am a Debian Developer for a couple of years now and Ubuntu Member for some time as well.
* ogra cheers loud for azeem
<azeem> I've been helping people in #ubuntu-motu mostly, and coordinated chemistry-related UbuntuScience packages with Jordan Mantha in Debian.  I have also tried to better the Debian<->Ubuntu relationship where possible. 
<azeem> I am applying for ubuntu-dev to integrate the opensync framework (together with lifeless) and maintain the various chemistry packages in universe (together with UbuntuScience).
<Keybuk> azeem: your wiki page claims you do not plan to do any generic MOTU work at this point ?
<azeem> .
<azeem> Keybuk: I'm pretty occupied with my PhD right now
<mjg59> azeem: So you're mostly planning on focusing on a specific small area?
<Keybuk> azeem: have you done much work with the MOTU to date?
<ogra> azeem is around since a very long time in -motu and was helping a lot of newcomers with basic packaging ...
<mdz> azeem: a similar set of packages to what you work with in Debian?
<azeem> mdz: well, not the Hurd stuff, for starters
<ogra> (very long time == nearly as long as the channel exists)
<bddebian> haha
<azeem> mjg59: I'm trying to concentrate on opensync and MotuScience for now, yes
<ogra> i think dholbach can confirm that ...
<mjg59> azeem: Sounds good to me
<mdz> azeem: what motivated you to apply for official status at this time after having participated in the development community for some time now?
<dholbach> azeem has been around for a long time, although i didn't work with him (which as ogra told me might be due to different sleeping patterns).
<azeem> Keybuk: I fixed about a handful of MotuScience Malone bugs on the Debian side coordinating with LaserJock
<dholbach> ogra:  :-)
* ogra thiks azeem's sleeping patterns match his own pretty much ;)
<azeem> mdz: we've now got the opensync stuff in Debian/Ubuntu, and I'd like to be able to push/merge/sync them on both sides if one freezes
<Keybuk> azeem: lifeless is already a member of ubuntu-dev, no?
<azeem> Keybuk: yes
<Keybuk> to be honest, at the moment, my concern is that you won't have the time to do much work in ubuntu-dev
<Keybuk> and that may mean you don't keep up with other changes that are necesseary
<bddebian> Any less than half the people that have "abandoned" us?
<azeem> Keybuk: what kind of changes?
<Keybuk> any; policy changes in packaging, server policy, configuration policy, etc.
<azeem> ah, ok
* ogra thinks even an azeem with limited time would be helpful for motu 
* LaserJock raises his hand
<bddebian> Keybuk: Seriously, any less than the rest of us MOTU's?
<LaserJock> azeem has been very instrumental in my packaging (he is sponsoring my packages in Debian) and has done a great job of working on the Debian/Ubuntu relationship, especially for science packages
<Keybuk> mjg59, mdz: any questions?
<LaserJock> he clearly knows what he's doing, has helped out quite a bit in #ubuntu-motu and while he isn't as active as crimsun or bddebian perhaps, it seems to me he keeps up as well as most MOTUs with what's going on in Ubuntu development
<lucas> I think that it's easy to get tired while doing MOTU work. People with limited time resources are probably much less likely to burn out. Also, it scales well, so it's not a problem to have many people dedicating only a small amount of time.
<mdz> azeem: in which ways do you feel that the relationship between Debian developers and Ubuntu developers could be improved?
<azeem> mdz: by mediating where possible
<Keybuk> azeem: could you give an example?
<azeem> e.g., yesterday, there was another mob in #debian.de when they again found out they have "accounts" on launchpad
<azeem> so siretart and me tried to cool them down
<azeem> and I subsequently talked to the people in #launchpad whether anything could be done to make the "not affiliated with canonical or ubuntu" more explicit for those kind of people pages on launchpad
<mdz> azeem: do you think that that concern affects launchpad more than other directories of open source contributors?
<azeem> mdz: I think that pages like "https://launchpad.net/people/panthera/+packages" are somewhat misleading, yes
<azeem> personally, I don't think it is problem, but I can see how some people who are not Ubuntu-friendly in the first place react strongly to them
<Hobbsee> morning all, did i miss the meeting?
<ogra> nope
<Hobbsee> oh yay :)
<raphink> Hobbsee: the meeting is going on now
<azeem> most of the time, it is due to missing or false information, and I am trying to set the record straight where possible
<mdz> azeem: it's essentially just parsing a Packages file, though
<mjg59> mdz: It does seem to suggest that the developer uploaded that package to Ubuntu, which isn't entirely accurate
<Hobbsee> raphink: cool, okay. we got some current logs here?  (more current than fabbione's)
<azeem> mdz: I understand
<azeem> mdz: but "panthera" never created an account on launchpad
<mjg59> But I think that's outside the scope of this section of the meeting
<azeem> right
<mdz> azeem: what sort of response did you receive from the launchpad team?
<azeem> kiko agreed that this might be misleading and suggested some better wording
<azeem> e.g. saying that this is not a real account, I think
<mdz> I think that qualifying it according to the source of informaiton would probably be sufficient
<mdz> if that page indicated that it was documenting package maintenance in Debian unstable, that would be an improvement
<mjg59> mdz: Is launchpad considered part of the domain that the tech board have influence over?
<raphink> hi mjg59
<raphink> oops
<raphink> sorry
<mdz> mjg59: sometimes
<mjg59> mdz: Heh
<mjg59> mdz: My feeling is that we're not going to get much further on this topic without involving the launchpad guys, which is probably a conversation for a later date
<ogra> if you look at the package itself its even worse ... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/acroread/7.0.1-0.0.ubuntu1 he's listed as maintainer and creator ... which would also indicate that he uploaded it to ubuntu 
<ogra> (indeed that happens through teh sync ... but people might not know this)
<siretart> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/panthera/+packages does as well suggest that he uploaded it to ubuntu (at least for me)
* imbrandon notes the maintainer spec should take care of that for edgy and edgy+
<mdz> mjg59: one worth having, certainly
<ogra> siretart, yes. thats what we discussed before
<mdz> moving on then?
<mjg59> I think we're done for questioning?
<mdz> I am
<Hobbsee> (sorry for my lateness - 6am meetings are nasty)
<mdz> Keybuk: anything else?
<mdz> ok, votes
<mjg59> +1 for me
<mdz> +1
<Keybuk> 0 from me, given limited time
<ogra> welcome azeem !! 
<ogra> finally :)
<imbrandon> congrats azeem
<azeem> \o/
<LaserJock> \o/
<siretart> welcome azeem :)
<pygi> \o/
<raphink> :)
<raphink> yeah
<raphink> congrats azeem
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> imbrandon: You next?
<mjg59> (and then back to Hobbsee, unless I've missed someone)
<mdz> azeem: welcome
<imbrandon> Hello , My name is Brandon Holtsclaw, and my wiki is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/imbrandon , I am an avid Kubuntu user and developer hopeful ( thus I'm here today ) . My goals are simplistic , basicly ( starting with the universe ) help do my part to bring Kubuntu to the level of polish that Ubuntu is ( Specificly in the default settings area for k* apps and eventualy kubuntu-default-settings in main ) I have Packaged , merged , 
<imbrandon> ubuntu Dev's and many Diffrent MOTU's also the Ubuntu BugSquad plus Upstream KDE ( specificly Konversation the Team ) Such as Riddell,Hobbsee,Crimsun,dholbach,jpatrick,bddebian and quite a few more I'm probably forgetting as I'm just waking up. My experince and goals are listed on my wiki. Sorry I dont have a better intro , I'm workin with 4.5 hours sleep comming here heh.
<mjg59> And let's see if we can speed this up, I'd like to be elsewhere :)
<imbrandon> ouch that dident paste well
<azeem> mdz: thanks
<Hobbsee> mjg59: okay, i'm going to be afk for about 15 mins then.  I support imbrandon's work, having uploaded some of his packages, in the past couple of weeks
<azeem> mjg59: didn't you bring your wine?
<mjg59> imbrandon: Who have you worked with in getting your stuff uploaded?
<mdz> imbrandon: who has been sponsoring your uploads to date?
<mjg59> azeem: May have been in the pub already
<Hobbsee> mjg59: mdz : me for one :)
<imbrandon> hobsee crimsun , bdebian ummm
<viper550> I bet he didn't bring Wine because he doesn't use Windows apps! *rimshot*
<raphink> imbrandon has been very active on #ubuntu-motu 
<crimsun> I've sponsored several. He learns quickly and has an increasingly improved grasp of troubleshooting packaging.
<imbrandon> ajmitch has reviewd a few in my early stages i dont think he has sponsored any yet
<imbrandon> Riddell ....
<mjg59> crimsun: So you'd be happy with him being able to upload packages directly?
<Riddell> yep, I support imbrandon too, he's done a bunch of merges and bugfixes for KDE packages
<Toadstool> yeah, imbrandon has done a really good work so far
<imbrandon> sorry its early but those are the main ppl i poke most of the time becouse they are generaly in the same timeframe as me
<crimsun> mjg59: definitely.
<bddebian> +1 imbrandon
<tseng> ++ from me as well. he's been doing consistant work for awhile no
<tseng> *now
<mjg59> imbrandon: what would you plan on doing as an motu?
<imbrandon> for the most part make sure the misc packages for K* fit into the rest of the desktop better
<imbrandon> and that transitions are done smooth and timely
<imbrandon> ( i also work with a select few packages in main a tad )
<imbrandon> mostly all kde types
<mjg59> Ok
<mdz> bddebian, tseng: do you have any specific feedback on code contributions or interaction with the MOTU team?
<tseng> mdz: I don't have feeback on specific uploads off the top of my head
<tseng> I can say he has been a positive influence in MOTU
<bddebian> Aye.  I have sponsored a few uploads for him
<tseng> you can tell who is sticking around, helping out, and fixing things.
<imbrandon> also my wiki documents my plans for universe better than i explained here
<imbrandon> as i'm a bit tired still ( just woke up 5 minutes prior to the meeting )
<raphink> ouch
<imbrandon> heh yea not my normal timeframe ;) hehe
<mdz> imbrandon: what was the motivation behind buntudot.org?
<imbrandon> at first it was becouse the fridge was stale
<imbrandon> and we ( the community ) wanted a universal news source
<imbrandon> since the fridge has been rejuvinated and soon buntudot.org will point to the fridge
<imbrandon> and our teams are in the works of merging
<mdz> imbrandon: what was your experience in working with the fridge team to revive it?
<imbrandon> with the guidance of sabdfl and janes
<imbrandon> me and whiprush are actualy the ones that came up wioth the plan
<imbrandon> so its kinda our baby
<imbrandon> ( as far as bringing our two teams into one )
<imbrandon> and makeing a "one community" , we discussed it with the members of our two teams via the fridge-devel list 
<imbrandon> and mark gave the blessing
<imbrandon> all thats lacking now is the tech bits getting worked out
<mdz> mjg59,Keybuk: anything else?
<Hobbsee> mdz: i'm back
<Hobbsee> mdz: & applying for core-dev
<mjg59> Hobbsee: Not quite yet
<Keybuk> nothing from me
<mjg59> I think I'm done
<mjg59> votes?
<Keybuk> +1
<Hobbsee> oh crud, i'm a little early.  sorry, misread.  still incredibly tired.
<mdz> +1
<ogra> welcome imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> congratulations imbrandon 
<imbrandon> ;)
<mjg59> +1
<mjg59> Ok
<gnomefreak> congrats imbrandon ;)
<imbrandon> thanks \o/
<mjg59> Any more ubuntu-dev?
<Keybuk> ttyfscker, tepsipakki, "Juliano Bastos"
<Keybuk> none of those appear to be here
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> Hobbsee: Intro?
<ogra> Hobbsee !!
<Hobbsee> mjg59: what do you want from me?  most of you saw me last meeting
<Hobbsee> i got motu at last meeting, now i'm applying for main
* Hobbsee is still on her plan to take over kubuntu
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: I'm curious as to why you wish to jump to main so quickly
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: because a lot of kde stuff is in main, and it's very hard to get uploaders for it.  
<Keybuk> you've only had upload rights to universe for two weeks, and I'm not convinced that's enough time for us to make a decision
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i was very lucky to even get 4 uploads to main in yesterday, with people to sponsor them.
<Keybuk> who are the Kubuntu team members who are also core-dev ?
<Hobbsee> ah, raphink, tonio_, riddell
<mjg59> Ideally the ones who are core-dev /before/ this meeting
<ogra> heh
<Hobbsee> crimsun, infinity, pitti, riddell, and a few other people have uploaded my core things.  oh, zul too.
<raphink> yep
<ogra> Keybuk, did you count her uploads on edgy-changes ?
<Hobbsee> ogra: how high's that number now?  do i want to know?  :P
<raphink> Hobbsee has been doing an amazing work lately
<raphink> uploading quite a log
<raphink> and working hard on bugs
<tseng> I sort of agree with Keybuk, even though Hobbsee is great imo
<pitti> right, I uploaded one merge and one update AFAI can recall
<tseng> not a fantastic precedent
<pitti> they were okay
<raphink> although she hasn't been a MOTU for long
<tseng> to jump to main in 2 weeks
<Hobbsee> Ideally, i would have gone for MOTU earlier, but because of a number of circumstances, i didnt.
<Keybuk> tseng: we've done it before, if there's a particular need
<Hobbsee> which would put me in the right place for applying to main today.
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: why didn't you apply for main at the last TB meeting as well?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: tried to.  they wouldnt let me - and i wanted to test out how the actual uploading worked before applying for it.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i can modify packages and all that fine - but the actual uploading bit i didnt trust myself to do in main until i'd done a few in universe.
<Hobbsee> heh.  a few.  i think i did more than a few :P
<imbrandon> more than a few
<ogra> plenty
<imbrandon> heh
<pygi> :)
<raphink> hehe
<imbrandon> -changes is more like -hobsee lately ( but thats a good thing )
<Hobbsee> hahahaa
<Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: I'll let you ask some questions ... :)
<Hobbsee> uh oh, sound's scary.  i'm still not terribly awake yet.
<raphink> :)
<mjg59> Hobbsee: So, given that you'd be able to upload core bits of infrastructure and cause everything to break, why should we trust you? :)
<mdz> Hobbsee: what stirred your interest in contributing to Ubuntu in the first place?
<Hobbsee> future plans are to organise kubuntu, become kubuntu community manager officially, etc.  and keep working on the distro, making it better of course, with sane defaults.  Also important is getting a fast turnaorund time for important bugfixes, which me having core would help with
<Hobbsee> mjg59: because i've yet to upload anything cracked in any of my packages yet, including most that were done before i was a MOTU.
<Hobbsee> mdz: got sick of windows and it's constant crashing.  got to compiling, thought "hey, this is fun", and got more and more interested in the way things were being done - and saw how much was still needing to be done
<mdz> Hobbsee: is your primary interest in -core-dev a practical one, avoiding sponsorship?  or are you interested in broader development work?
<Hobbsee> mdz: did some cd testing, bugwork, etc for a while, then moved into packaging
<Hobbsee> mdz: can you define broader development work please?
<ogra> writing the killer app for kubuntu indeed ;)
<Hobbsee> mdz: well, obviously, it's partly a practical one.  it's very difficult to get kde sutff uploaded to main, because most devs wont upload kde stuff unless it's really simple.
<mdz> Hobbsee: contributions across a broader range of packages or subsystems, interest in furthering the core goals of Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> mainly because they dont know the code base, etc
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: are the other kubuntu team members not helpful?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: they are, when they're around.  and im' in a shocking timezone for such things.
<Keybuk> is the lack of desire to sponsor uploads within the kubuntu team a problem that needs addressing?
<Keybuk> I wasn't aware sponsored uploads were timezone-dependant?
<Hobbsee> mdz: right.  did you ever read last meeting's log, where i covered some of this?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: they have to actually be awake and here at the time i want an upload....
<Keybuk> do they not have e-mail?
* pitti has to admit that he is uncomfortable with sponsoring KDE uploads
<Hobbsee> pitti is one of many
<mdz> Hobbsee: last meeting of which group?
<pitti> mainly because I cannot/do not want to test them
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: they do.  email gets lots
<ogra> mdz, TB
<Keybuk> pitti: also myself ... I simply don't know C++ well enough to read patches
<Hobbsee> mdz: TB, where i went for MOTU
<pitti> so I only sponsor trivial patches
<mdz> Hobbsee: no, I don't usually have time to catch up on IRC logs in detail after travel
<Hobbsee> effectively what i'm doing now is my own uploads - the guys dont have time to test all kde patches, as they dont have the system there
<Hobbsee> mdz: right. okay, i'll give you the short version then.  basically, i'm very organisational, so i'm looking at organising kubuntu to make it work a lot better, getting our developers trained, whatever their level, so that they can contribute, and to take some of the load off Riddell, who does an awesome job, but is still one man, and runs out of time
<raphink> sounds nice
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: most of the kubuntu team members arent in core - or motu, for that matter.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: we've still got quite a new development team, apart from Riddell, and a few others.
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: in a handful of sentences, could you describe how shlibs work and what they're used for
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: not really at this time of morning, but generally, yes.  means that if you have foo-dev as a build-dep then foo will be installed as a dep of the package
<Hobbsee> so you dotn have to hardcode it into debian/control
<Keybuk> when developing a library package, how would you make sure it works with this system?
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: havent tried yet, that's something i'd ask for help on.
<mdz> Hobbsee: for the most part, your contributions have taken the form of merges and syncs, more so than direct packaging/code contributions.  How would membership in -core-dev simplify that process, apart from avoiding the delay involved in sponsored uploads?
<Hobbsee> even with core, i'm not out to upload anything and everything - i still dont know everything, there's still stuff i'd need help for.  but i'm not about to upload crackful stuff that i dont understand.  this isnt a "you are signing all rights away to asking questions"
<Hobbsee> mdz: true. that's changing.  the last patches to amarok/kopete/libdvdread have been mostly patches, not merges and syncs
<mdz> Hobbsee: it is, though, us signing away the requirement that questions be asked at all ;-)
<Hobbsee> mdz: well, yes.  but i'm not irresponsible enough to never ask a question about something i dont know :P
<raphink> true
<Hobbsee> mdz: probably looking to commit more upstream stuff in the future, when i know how to code more.  but my focus at the moment is fixing a lot of the major bugs in kubuntu
* Hobbsee checks for anything that she didnt answer before
<Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: any further questions?
<mjg59> I think I'm good
<Keybuk> votes?
<mdz> Hobbsee: -core-dev should be seen as a confirmation of a sustained, trustworthy contribution to the core infrastructure of Ubuntu, more so than as a convenience of process and upload privileges.  what do you see as your role in bringing Ubuntu (and/or Kubuntu) forward in pursuit of its goals which corresponds to -core-dev membership?
<Hobbsee> gah.  i should copy and paste from last week, i think.
<mdz> you'd be welcome, if the content would be helpful in context
<Hobbsee> mdz: kubuntu has a rather shocking history for getting bugs fixed very slowly - it took over a month to fix a bug in the screensaver, since a patch was in kde bugs
<Hobbsee> ack, dont think that made sense.
<Hobbsee> mdz: mainly we have a problem of not enough people who can look at fixes, see if they're any good, and commit them if they do.  and the ones that can then have to get upload rights, so that means by getting sponsorship from Riddell 
<pitti> Hobbsee: if it was supposed to mean 'better QA', it did make sense :)
* Hobbsee is sure her brain is going out the window here.
<mdz> Riddell isn't the only member of -core-dev who can sponsor Kubuntu-related uploads, though
<Hobbsee> mdz: there's a difference between "can" and "willing to".  \sh has been quite busy, too
<pitti> after this talk I would consider it ok to do 'half-blind' sponsoring
<pitti> i. e. just look at debdiffs for 'doesn't look totally crackful' and otherwise just upload
<Hobbsee> pitti: even that would be helpful, as long as it actually happened
<crimsun> I've sponsored several of Hobbsee's and found them to be "within scale" -- they're localised and broken out for quick verification. Furthermore, though I still build and test locally, I know she has already done that before pinging me.
<mdz> Hobbsee: raphink is a -core-dev member with a focus on kubuntu contributions as well; there doesn't seem to be a shortage of folks to vet uploads
<Hobbsee> mdz: true.  when he's around.
<mdz> Hobbsee: no one can be around ALL of the time ;-)
<Hobbsee> mdz: well, of course not.  did i say that?  :P
<Keybuk> I don't believe it's necessary for them to be around; you should be able to request a sponsored upload by e-mail
<lucas> I'm not sure I understand how sponsorship requests are processed for kubuntu. don't you have a mailing list where you could request sponsored uploads when you need one ? so the first one to catch it wins it ?
<Hobbsee> lucas: no, it's primarily irc based - if you're not on irc, then you're very much out of the loop
<Keybuk> this, by the sounds of it. is something that needs to be addressed
<Hobbsee> lucas: the way it currently works is to just ping a motu who is around, or a core dev who is around, and ask them to upload.
<pitti> lucas: we don't have a ML, primarily because I'd reckon that few people would actually use it
<mdz> if sponsorship is problematic, that's a problem that we should address directly, rather than by liberal application of upload privileges
<imbrandon> Keybuk: +1 on needs to be addressed ( kubuntu-devel@ ? )
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: it is.  like i say, there's lots of good stuff in kubuntu, but there's also a heck of a lot that needs fixing
<bddebian> That same can be said for Universe :-)
<Hobbsee> mdz: how do you propose that to work?  very few people from the ubuntu side will take on kubuntu packages, as you've already seen.
<lucas> maybe a "ready to sponsor" team could be created on LP, and people would file bugs against it to get their packages sponsored.
<lucas> similar to sync requests
<Toadstool> well, for Universe, I used to use LP and assign bugs to motu-reviewers
<Keybuk> we can discuss that afterwards
<pitti> lucas: true, and with a script similar to request_sync this could be made fairly easy
<Hobbsee> lucas: i believe motu reviewers works like that.  i think i eventually got a couple of uploads sponsored like that - but it's quite slow, and i never know if it's been done.
<mdz> Hobbsee: I acknowledge that, but surely it isn't practical to expect all Kubuntu contributors to become core developers in order to avoid the issue
<Hobbsee> mdz: of course.  just some of them
* Hobbsee notes that kubuntu is very much the bastard child, unfortunately.
<Keybuk> I don't agree that Kubuntu is a bastard child at all
<Keybuk> why do you say that?
<Keybuk> your problem seems to be a failing of its own development team, rather than of a lack of external support
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: what i said above - we're getting people, they're getting better, but it's still very hard....well, yeah.
<Hobbsee> +1 to Keybuk, and i'm sure my brain's gone.
<Keybuk> mdz: any further questions ?
<mdz> Keybuk: we need to move on I think
<Keybuk> we do, we're already 2 hours in
<Keybuk> mjg59 has had to go
<Hobbsee> i need to go as well
<Hobbsee> need to be at uni on time today.
<mdz> ok then
<Hobbsee> well, i needed to leave half an hour ago, but that's beside the point :P
<Keybuk> -1 from me, I'm afraid;  Hobbsee: you've been an excellent contributor so far, and are certainly invaluable.  I just don't believe you've _yet_ gained the experience for main upload rights, I have no doubt that you will though
<Keybuk> it appears you have a problem gaining sponsorship, and I think that's something we should address directly, rather than working around it by granting main upload rights to everyone
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: fair enough.  this issue does need to be addressed though.
<tseng> Hobbsee: I hope you are not discouraged to reapply in a few months
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> Hobbsee: I appreciate and value you contributions, but I'd very much prefer to address the sponsorship issue directly rather than using it as justification for -core-dev
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: propose a solution later, rather than just saying "it doesnt work and needs fixing".
* pitti hugs Hobbsee and encourages her to continue her good work
* ogra is convinced Hobbsee will make a great main dev
<Hobbsee> mdz: ditto
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Yeah, unlike me :-)
<Keybuk> indeed, please do continue your excellent work
<mdz> s/you/your/
* raphink is convinced, too
* Hobbsee will make sure to bug you lot for main uploads first :P
<Keybuk> shall we address the sponsorship problem now?
<Keybuk> Riddell: ping?
<mdz> I'd be glad to consider that situation explicitly, either at a future meeting or ad hoc
<bddebian> I'd like to hear it but I have to go
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: if you have to.  i really do have to be at uni on time today, otherwise it's not going to be worth living around here :P
<Keybuk> pitti: you've been doing some main sponsorship, would you like to own the problem and work on a solution?
<ogra> Keybuk, haven't we still that darn avahi thing on the agenda ?
<pitti> Keybuk: yep
<ogra> we're at 2h
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: that's ok, this is a problem we can address out of band :)  have fun!
<Riddell> pong
<mdz> it's crucial that we have a healthy and maintainable system for vetting uploads through mentoring and sponsorship
<imbrandon> i have to run but let me put my 0.2 cents in on the sponsorship before i run, I doo think we either need a ML just for that ( kubuntu-devel@ ? ) or a way to track sponsorship req in LP
<Keybuk> Riddell: could you work with pitti with a focus on ensuring kubuntu uploads don't have a sponsorship bottleneck
<mdz> I think there's work to be done in formalizing the sponsorship process in Ubuntu
<mdz> and this is evidence of that
<Keybuk> they're more problematic as they rely on both a completely different framework *and* development language than Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu which limits the number of people who can do it
<mdz> I think we can take this up on ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> agree
<imbrandon> and mostly becouse alot of us are in diffrent timezones for the few that do use our framework etc
<seb128> that's probably not kubuntu specific though
<mdz> Keybuk: would you start the thread sometime this week?
<ogra> right, universe in general could need it as well 
<LaserJock> ogra: ++
<Hobbsee> ogra: there are more people around, so the chances of getting something uploaded is higher
<LaserJock> but the problem remains that most sponsorship is a crap shoot depending on who is on IRC, etc.
<seb128> Hobbsee: you have to find somebody interested by the package you work on, which is not always easy
<ogra> Hobbsee, sure, but there are still often uploaders missing 
<mdz> LaserJock: it shouldn't be, and if that's the current situation, we should address that
<imbrandon> mdz yes that is the case unfortunately although alot better than the kubuntu main
<Hobbsee> seb128: ogra:  i dont deny it, i just said it was slightly easier
* Hobbsee finally turns her phone on.  all these messages from Riddell :P
<LaserJock> mdz: we do have a motu-reviewers LP team but I'm not sure how successful it has been
<imbrandon> lol
<mdz> Hobbsee: I would very much appreciate your input on improving the review process for sponsored uploads, though it needs to happen out of band and involve a wider audience
<ogra> agreed ... main is harder indeed
<mdz> this meeting is running long and we need to move on
<mdz> avahi is next on the agenda
<imbrandon> ok i have to run everyone , thanks again , see yall in a few hours
<Keybuk> that was mjg59's item, and I'm not sure what he wanted to explicitly discuss
<mdz> this seems to be revisiting an issue that was decided by easy consensus ages ago
<Keybuk> I think that pitti's recent summary to ubuntu-devel is perfect
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-July/019680.html
<pitti> ^ my 2 cents
<pitti> I think for edgy the plan should be settled and not ripped apart again
<Hobbsee> mdz: looks like a kubuntu meeting :P
<mdz> I support pitti's proposal as well
<pitti> I do see the need to re-discuss and reformulate our 'no open ports' policy
* mezcalero is the upstream avahi dev, btw. if you have any questions ...
<pitti> i. e. the thread convinced me that our current strictness is not really appropriate
<Keybuk> pitti: does that need to be discussed today?
<mdz> yes, it isn't a simple matter of system calls
<pitti> Keybuk: no, not at all
<pitti> maybe at the next dev summit, or another TB which isn't that long
<mdz> I think that the way forward for avahi is fairly clear; it is a young technology and we would like to experiment with it, but throwing the doors wide would be premature at this point
<pitti> mdz++
<mdz> we'll make it easy to opt in, and take it from there on a more considered basis
<pitti> yesterday I talked to Lennart, and he seems to basically agree, too
<mdz> is there anyone present who has more comments or questions to offer regarding avahi?
<mezcalero> pitti: hmm, agree to what?
<pitti> once it matured a bit and saw some reviews, we should reconsider enabling it by default
<pitti> mezcalero: opt-in for edgy, let it mature a bit, enable by default in a later release
<mezcalero> the underlying technology of avahi is not exactly "new". it has been around in macosx for quite a while now.
<mdz> pitti: indeed, we should consider it in context with the other systems we enable by default, not treat it differently because "that's the way it works"
<pitti> right, but the package is still quite new
<mezcalero> pitti: you're misquoting me there
<pitti> mezcalero: sorry if I did
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-02
<mezcalero> pitti: i am not a fried of opt-in for avahi
<mezcalero> s/fried/friend/
<Keybuk> mezcalero: right, but the implementation is new ... our current policy is to prevent attack by bugs in software with an open port
<pitti> mezcalero: I'm fully aware that it is not ideal
<pitti> mezcalero: and I do see the advantages of having it on by default
<mezcalero> Keybuk: i know your policy. but i don't like it. ;-)
<pitti> but people need to get used to that feature, and we have to develop and review the applications that use it, too
<pitti> mezcalero: ok, sorry for the misunderstanding then
<Riddell> pitti: does this apply to CUPS discovery too?
<mezcalero> i guess it is an undeniable truth that avahi has been around for a year only
<pitti> so, I'd propose an edgy+1 spec to clean up our service discovery stuff (avahi, dhcp, cups) and make a consistent policy out of it, with considering the apps that make use of these features
<pitti> the latter part does not seem easy at all to me
<mdz> my feeling is that the functionality is compelling enough to justify a thorough review of the security model and software, but not that we should change the policy out of hand
<pitti> (especially with regard to cups browsing and such)
<pitti> Riddell: I don't see why not
<mdz> pitti: it would go well in hand with a new initiative to use this system for automatic integration of standard local network services ;-)
<ogra> ltsp could majorly benefit from avahi in many areas ...
<pitti> ok, so it seems that the ubuntu devs basically all agree, and mezcalero at least won't kill us instantly (and I'm not denying his concerns either, but we have to look at our release schedule)
<mdz> at this point, I'm not prepared to take an explicit decision on changing our security policy to accomodate avahi
<mdz> so if that's the issue on the table, there's little to discuss from my part
<pitti> mdz: I didn't propose to
<pitti> mdz: the current edgy way is to provide an easy way to turn it on and decorate it with a reasonable warning
<Keybuk> pitti: what is the concern for having avahi opt-in?
<Keybuk> I haven't actually seen one
<pitti> Keybuk: I didn't see such a concern
<pitti> Keybuk: i. e. you mean someone argued that even providing an opt-in is too much?
<pitti> (IOW, that we shouldn't use it at all?)
<Keybuk> you spoke of mezcalero's concerns about having it opt-in
<Keybuk> no, concerns that it's opt-in not enabled-by-default
<pitti> Keybuk: well, it defeats the 'zero'conf idea a bit
<mezcalero> pitti: i wonder how this "opt-in" will look like? a checkbox during installation? a checkbox in some obscure configuration menu well hidden? what will be the text on the checkbox?
<pitti> seb128: ^ that's one for you, I think
<seb128> atm we have a checkbox to network-admin
<mezcalero> seb128: what does that checkbox do?
<seb128> but I admit it's not easily discoverable
<pitti> TBH I think that having such an user-educated opt-in is not bad at all, as long as it's discoverable
<mdz> it's "a bit"conf rather than "zero"conf
<Riddell> mezcalero: I added a tickbox to the KDE zeroconf KControl module
<seb128> mezcalero: enable avahi 
<mezcalero> seb128: and what does the checkbox text say? i am just wondering how you explain what it enables near the checkbox.
<Riddell> mezcalero: it shows a scary warning message and sets avahi to run
<seb128> mezcalero: the idea is to have it installed by default but not started, it starts when the box is checked
<pitti> seb128: hm, 'avahi' is a bit too abstract
<mezcalero> but who on earth knows what avahi is?
<Riddell> I have "Enable Zeroconf network browsing"
<mezcalero> "avahi" is a term that only very people know what it is
<gnomefreak> server installed by default with kubuntu?
<pitti> but so is zeroconf
<Riddell> gnomefreak: yes, but off
<mezcalero> and what is "zeroconf"?
<gnomefreak> yes
<seb128> the box is "Scan for available services and advertise local services on the network"
<mezcalero> especially since there is this irritating debian package "zeroconf" which complicates everything further
<mdz> seb128: accurate, if verbose
<mezcalero> seb128: and you expect people now what a "service" is?
<seb128> mezcalero: better suggestions are welcome :)
<Keybuk> can we take the UI discussion out of the meeting, please
<mdz> Keybuk: I'm inclined to back pitti's proposal and consider this in depth for a future release
<mezcalero> my point is that zeroconf/avahi ist just too complicated to explain. so in the end nooone will ever enable it becvause noone knows what it is
<Keybuk> unless there's something you would like the TB to decide on, this would be more suitable for #ubuntu-devel
<mezcalero> such a checkbox is pretty much worthless, it's like not making it available at all
<Keybuk> mdz: myself also, I fully back pitti's proposal
<seb128> mezcalero: I'm sure the documentation team will find a way to advertise it to the user guide 
<mdz> Keybuk: then we have a consensus
<mezcalero> seb128: who reads users guides? ;-)
<seb128> and make clear what effects it has on some applications like rhythmbox
<Keybuk> ok, that was the last agenda item
<Keybuk> do we have any other business for the TB?
<seb128> mezcalero: users?
<mdz> mezcalero: I acknowledge that the model requires a change in our thinking, but it's something we need to consider more thoroughly and target for a release
<ogra> mezcalero, at least a checkbox is easier to check than installing a package ...
<pitti> TBH, my mother wouldn't find it, but then again, my mother isn't interested/capable in avahi services either
<mezcalero> ogra: i doubt that
<mdz> I don't think that enabling it by default for edgy is practical
<pitti> if we enable it in 3 months for edgy+1, that should be good
<mezcalero> ogra: think of a normal user. he wants to use that shiny new "zeroconf" tech. would would you do in his case. look for a package or look in the network config tool?
<mdz> I think that concludes the agenda
<mdz> is there any other business to be raised?
<pitti> and collect some experience in the meantime
<mezcalero> s/would/what/
<seb128> mezcalero: read the user guide section about it :p
<seb128> mezcalero: which explains what box to click on
<Keybuk> mdz: it appears not
<mdz> ok, adjourned then
<mdz> thanks to all for the endurance ;-)
* pitti falls into bed, good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<ogra> mezcalero, being silly and install the debian zeroconf package which is the wrong one as you said :) i guess ... or remembering that he saw this little checkbox when he set up his modem for his 14k dialup and just chekc it without having to download the package
<seb128> ogra: too slow :p
<ogra> gah
<ogra> the meeting was just to quick :P
<Hobbsee> ogra: hehe
<seb128> Hobbsee: I thought you had to run to university? ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: i do.  i'm very late.
<Hobbsee> seb128: well, drive there
<Hobbsee> oh shoot!  i needed petrol too!
<ogra> go go go !
* Hobbsee collapses on the floor instead.
<Hobbsee> all mornings should be banned.
<ogra> ++
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> especially all meetings that start at 6am.
* Hobbsee breakfasts
<ogra> well, it started at 10pm here 
<Hobbsee> ogra: lucky
<tritium> Hobbsee: /mode +b *!*mornings ;)
<Hobbsee> tritium: hehe!
<viper550> Did I miss any meeting?
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> the whole thing.
<viper550> Whoops...
<viper550> At least it had nothing to do with Artwork, right?
<tseng> no.
<viper550> Bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<rodarvus> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 02 2006, 18:43:32 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 16 minutes
<flint> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 02 2006, 18:44:49 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 1 hour 15 minutes
<Amaranth> flint: uh
<flint> I am in bondage in DC...  will likely miss the 20:00 meeting... better next week...
<ogra_thin> sad
<ailean> bondage?
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 21:00: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* highvoltage has arrived
* lucasvo is already here ;)
* ailean has been here for ages . . .
<ailean> and erm had some problems . . .
<highvoltage> heh
<Amaranth> meeting time
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra_thin> meep
<highvoltage> *bong*
<Seveas> /nick Wile E. Coyote
<Seveas> ogra, beware!
<ogra_thin> a small prefix in case you didnt see it: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/linux_terminal_server
<ogra_thin> we're getting good press ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, I see elmo is an inactive edubuntu member ;-)
<ogra_thin> he's member of all official teams i think
<highvoltage> hi AliasVegas 
<ogra_thin> hey AliasVegas 
<AliasVegas> highvoltage hi :)
<ailean> I'd like to speak to someone at the end of this meeting about how to contribute to Ubuntu
<pygi> morning Lisa
<AliasVegas> hi guys!
<ailean> if that can be arranged
<pygi> ailean, just poke me /pm, and I'll answer whatever you want
<ogra_thin> so, there is nothing from my side this week, i just set up my ltsp lab in the new office and was busy with moving houses 
<cbx33> nice ogra_thin 
<cbx33> have you started on scp
<LaserJock> ogra_thin: cool
<ailean> k pygi, I'll send you a PM in an hour or so :)
<ogra_thin> and it seems edgy ltsp is horribly broken :/
<pygi> ailean, in an hour or so I'll be eating :P
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> pygi, still?
<ogra_thin> but i have fanally an opportunity to look into it, now that the lab is back :)
<pygi> cbx33, none, other things on my mind right now :-/
<ogra_thin> Amaranths SoC project is going forward in huge steps
<cbx33> yeh well done Amaranth 
<ogra_thin> (i just uploaded another willowng package to NEW)
<Amaranth> :D
<ogra_thin> if thats approved, please test it and file bugs (i hope Amaranth already registered a product in LP)
<Amaranth> i didn't
<ogra_thin> if not, Amaranth please do so
<Amaranth> i wanted a new name first
<LaserJock> tsk tsk
<Amaranth> but i kind of like willowng as a name now
<ogra_thin> yup
<ogra_thin> and if i see the mailing lists, you will be the hero of our users once we ship it ;)
<ogra_thin> content filtering is a high demand there
<highvoltage> fo' shure
<cbx33> indeed
<lucasvo> let's call ubuntu also linux-ng, then it would be perfect, willowng, bazaar-ng, linux-ng ;)
<ogra_thin> (and willowng is sooo beautiful)
<ogra_thin> AliasVegas, we'll need an icon !
<cbx33> it's already been requested ogra_thin 
<cbx33> :p
<ogra_thin> (its a content filter/blocker app)
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: cbx33 gave her a sticky note :)
<ogra_thin> oh, great !
<LaserJock> will this be a replacement for danguardian et al. ? (I'm not up on the content filter field)
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, any other tech news ?
<ogra_thin> LaserJock, dansguardian is something i'd run on a separate machine 
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> like in censornet
<ogra_thin> willowng is dbus driven and integrates in the teachers desktop 
<rodarvus> ogra, no, not really
<rodarvus> we'll probably have something for next week
<rodarvus> but its [secret]  for now :D
<ogra_thin> it runs locally on the ltsp server
<ogra_thin> hehe
<ogra_thin> secrets are good ... 
<highvoltage> they are!?
<ogra_thin> they keep up the suspense 
<ogra_thin> well, if you unleash them at some point indeed ;)
<highvoltage> ok, then i won't tell everyone in the channel about that thing...
<highvoltage> (for a while)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure where edubuntu-dynamic-menus is at. I can't see any good clean solutions ATM. I'm looking into how menu files are merged though
<LaserJock> I think at least we could make a tool that would merge individual menu files and place them into all the user's ~/
<ogra_thin> well, there is an option to merge them through the paths they are stored iirc
<ogra_thin> s/stored/stored in/
<LaserJock> but as Amaranth has pointed out before, you can quickly make an editing case that would cause problems
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: https://launchpad.net/products/willowng
<ogra_thin> yay+
<Amaranth> "This is where the magic happens."
* lucasvo subscribes
<ogra_thin> no open bugs yet ... 
<LaserJock> I think as long as admins are doing things really wild you should be able to use xdg's built in merging
<ogra_thin> good sign :)
<LaserJock> s/are/aren't/
<ogra_thin> yep
<ogra_thin> thats what i thought 
<ogra_thin> and we shouldnt expect them to do wild things :)
<ailean> will edubuntu incorporate this slab menu system?
<ogra_thin> slab ?
<LaserJock> no
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I still think hooking into group adding and creating /etc/xdg/<group>-menus/ with a copy of applications.menu and such is best
<LaserJock> Amaranth: and setting XDG_DATA_DIR?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: with /etc/xdg/<group>-menus/applications-merged/ being a symlink to /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/
<Amaranth> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> Amaranth: how would that get set?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: but you can't merge different group menus together
<ailean> Slab: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-slab
<ogra_thin> ailean, that spec is in review ...
<ogra_thin> spec deadline is long passed
<Amaranth> LaserJock: some sort of config file in $HOME unless you want to hack gnome-session
<rodarvus> I'm not sure the meeting is the right place for us to discuss the details of the implementatio, buuuuut :)
<Amaranth> hehe
<ogra_thin> right
<LaserJock> rodarvus: I was just trying to kill time ;-)
<ogra_thin> lets move on 
<highvoltage> heh
<rodarvus> LaserJock, I'd like to propose one thing to you, regarding your spec
<ogra_thin> anything else for the tech side from anyone ?
<rodarvus> but we can talk about this later, after meeting
<LaserJock> rodarvus: ok, great
<Amaranth> <Kamion> ogra: willowng done
<Amaranth> w00tage
<ogra_thin> YAY
<rodarvus> trs cool
<lucasvo> Amaranth: you mean I can test willowng?
<lucasvo> rodarvus: vous etes francais? 
<rodarvus> lucasvo, probably in a bunch of hours (deppending on size of build queue)
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, after the next buildd run
<Amaranth> lucasvo: should be in the repos soon
<rodarvus> lucasvo, nope, I'm brazilian
<IvanCherevko> hello everybody!
<ogra_thin> yeah, the point release is keeping them busy
<rodarvus> I was just pretending I speak french :D
* lucasvo pretends to know french. he learnt it in school
<cbx33> Amaranth, lucky ! - I'm still waiting for gisomount to get into universe
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> rodarvus: you did a good job of it a few weeks ago ;)
<rodarvus> ogra, yea, so in this case - likely tomorrow (or even the day after tomorrow, if openoffice.org is on the queue)
<IvanCherevko> Can somebody tell me, when next Community Council meeting will commence?
<rodarvus> highvoltage, haha, thanks
<Amaranth> IvanCherevko: No one knows yet.
<rodarvus> IvanCherevko, likely in 6 days from now
<lucasvo> bah, openoffice, after all that trouble I removed it
<Amaranth> IvanCherevko: We're in a meeting right now.
<lucasvo> is it installable at the moment?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: it is for me
<rodarvus> its installable
<rodarvus> yes
<ogra_thin> it was this morning (edgy)
<rodarvus> lucasvo, the openoffice.org being currently built is for amd64 on edgy and (I believe) for dapper-updates
<rodarvus> i386 on edgy is settle down, I think
* ogra_thin still winders what that xorg driver issue was he saw in ltsp ...
<Amaranth> Alrighty then, next? :)
<ogra_thin> but likely its simply not built yet
<ogra_thin> yeah, seems we're done with tech
<rodarvus> ogra_thin, you can try to talk with the X.Org mantainer, to see if he can help you
<ogra_thin> hehe
<rodarvus> :)
<Amaranth> short meeting
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, it looked like an archive issue ... i'll track it tomorrow
<Amaranth> we all need to do lots of cool things so we can fill up an hour :)
<rodarvus> ogra_thin, yes, indeed looked like some transient problem
<ogra_thin> i apparently also mertged a lot of debian mess into ltsp i need to clean up
<Amaranth> ooh, is usplash uses 800x600 by default now?
<ogra_thin> migth or might not be related
<ogra_thin> yes ... but artwork is lateer on the agenda ;)
<ogra_thin> documentation !
<rodarvus> also, ogra, vagrantc and I had a nice discussion on usage of Zeroconf for LTSP services on Edgy+1
<ogra_thin> cool
<rodarvus> I believe a rather nice spec may rise in the future
<rodarvus> (no promises here, though)
<ogra_thin> i'll likely be at a ltps hackfest in michigan in september btw
<LaserJock> cool
<rodarvus> oh really?
<ogra_thin> yep
* lucasvo would like to go as well
<rodarvus> do you expect RichEd to want one of us to go there?
<lucasvo> earning money as a student is real hard. :(
<highvoltage> anyone up to date with cookbook happenings?
<highvoltage> i'm still getting more and more confused about the cookbook
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, its an invitation from sbalneav and jammcq to teach a bit bzr and to look over the convergence stuff
<pygi> highvoltage, whats wrong? :)
<ogra_thin> i dont think RichEd would fit there+
<rodarvus> ogra_thin, nice
<pygi> highvoltage, if you have any cookbook questions...
<pygi> please do ask..
<highvoltage> pygi: i don't know what's wrong, i just don't know what's happening. there seems to be a few different branches of it :)
* cbx33 is keen to know the outcome of BETT2007
<lucasvo> ogra_thin: ltsp wants to learn bzr?
<rodarvus> ogra_thin, but who would pay for your tickets and accomodation?
<ogra_thin> yeah, tell us about docs :)
<rodarvus> (you?)
<cbx33> RichEd should know by now
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, me worst case ...
<highvoltage> pygi: what i mean is, i don't know *if* somethings wrong, i'm not implying that there is :)
<pygi> highvoltage, the one me and hedge have is the right one :P
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, but we're trying to get sabdfl approval
<pygi> ignore all that LP mess
<highvoltage> pygi: ok, there was some mention of a name change at some point?
<pygi> highvoltage, Edubuntu Handbook (it's a new name)
<highvoltage> pygi: i think it's the LP mess, and flint sending me a new version of his 'cookbook', that caused my confusion
<rodarvus> lucasvo, ltsp will move to bzr.
<rodarvus> its part of the ltsp-convergence spec
<lucasvo> cool. and LP?
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, ltsp will merge with us
<lucasvo> wow.
<ogra_thin> qand use LP and malone
<lucasvo> cool news.
<pygi> highvoltage, flint? who would he be? lol :P
<highvoltage> heh
<ogra_thin> but thats a far target, we need to get the code in shape first so we can merge easily
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, flints book is a 1:1 ripoff of the tuxlabs book
<ogra_thin> the ltsp bits are totally unappropriate
<pygi> ogra_thin, !!!
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: i've gathered that. i told him that too, and he said he's not concerned about the technical bits
<ogra_thin> its a nice book ontheless
<ogra_thin> *nontheless
<rodarvus> not concerned about the technical bits?
<ogra_thin> any more words from our doc team ?
<rodarvus> what does that means?
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, thats flint ... you need to meet him to understand him ;)
<highvoltage> rodarvus: he has put more focus on the 'soft' issues, such as lab management, training, et
<ogra_thin> he's unique
<juliux> hi all
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: i think that needs to be arranged!
<juliux> sorry for the delay
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, absolutely
<rodarvus> ahem.
<pygi> ogra_thin, yes, I have words :P
<pygi> We'll have the handbook ready :)
<ogra_thin> lets lock them in a room together and see who comes out in the end *g*
<flint> are you guys talking about me?  hangon...
<ogra_thin> haha
<flint> @user
<ogra_thin> you are here :)
<highvoltage> flint: of course
<flint> I am honored!
<ogra_thin> pygi, really ? 
<LaserJock> pygi: what has been done so far?
<ogra_thin> thats great news
<LaserJock> pygi: as far as content
<pygi> ogra, well, ofcourse, I promised same last time, and it was done, wasn't it? :)
<ogra_thin> flint, make sure to set up an edgy box and try out willowng/willowng-config ;)
<pygi> LaserJock, not much sadly :-/
<pygi> mostly me, hedge and mhz will be working /are working
<ogra_thin> flint, its the content filter of the future :)
<highvoltage> strange not to see hedgy on irc
<cbx33> highvoltage, I was thinking that
<ogra_thin> especially at this time
<LaserJock> pygi: when date are you shooting to get it done by?
<LaserJock> must be the Army called
<lucasvo> Amaranth: where can one find out whihc packages are still in the build queue?
* lucasvo would really like to test it
<pygi> LaserJock, I forgot the dates :), but I think we adjusted the freeze and stuff with doc team
<LaserJock> pygi: ok, cool
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+builds
<Amaranth> lucasvo: I'd guess somewhere on http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+builds
<Amaranth> heh
<ogra_thin> :)
<flint> ogra_thin, ya zimmerman said to set up an eft... now i know why.
<ogra_thin> flint, also the student-control-panel will be worth a look ;)
<ogra_thin> (no work done yet, but son)
<ogra_thin> *soon
<flint> highvoltage, Jonathan, my book is in fact a page-by-page rip off of the original tuxlab book... I intend to put it in the DC LOCO BAR this week (with a little rewriting :^)
<ogra_thin> any other doc news ?
<flint> replace BAR with BZR
<highvoltage> flint: no problemo! i'll still give it a read through :)
<ogra_thin> its a great book but it really should honor edubuntu specifics
<flint> btw sorry I was late, gotta slave for a client.
<highvoltage> especially if it's going to have the edubuntu name on it :)
<ogra_thin> heh, yes
<ogra_thin> flint, a thin one ?
<flint> ogra_thin, nothing I do is thin!
* highvoltage worked with fat clients all week
<ogra_thin> heh, true
<flint> :^)
<ogra_thin> ok, lest move on ...
<ogra_thin> AliasVegas ! got something to tell us ?
<ogra_thin> :)
* cbx33 puts this on the table
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Worksheet
<AliasVegas> yes...
<ogra_thin> i know your hubby throws around sounds like a berzerk
<cbx33> I had it to hand :p
<rodarvus> Jane had to leave irc (minutes after she logged on irc.freenode.net, she found it it was prohibited to do so from her workplace)
<cbx33> rodarvus, darn
<highvoltage> :/
<lucasvo> AliasVegas: you are the G/f of cbx33 ?
<AliasVegas> wife lol
<lucasvo> ah, ok.
<cbx33> hehe
<flint> rodarvus, that is terrible! I miss your lady friend Jane.
<highvoltage> lucasvo: his better half ;)
<lucasvo> sry, I wasn't sure about your relation.
<AliasVegas> :)
<AliasVegas> We've been working on getting together ideas and suggestions
<ogra_thin> AliasVegas, we should have a usplash that shows our inheritance ... the current one is similar to the ubuntu one ...
<AliasVegas> and I'm hoping to have an artwork meeting sometime soon
<AliasVegas> yes
<AliasVegas> its on the list
<ogra_thin> and the login screen should be higer priorized, we still have the breezy one with edubuntu logo
<AliasVegas> ok
<ogra_thin> alsdo please ping me if thats done sionce i need to adjust the ltsp login screen to look similar
<flint> ogra_thin, I actually like the non-cyclops login screen that is currently working.
<AliasVegas> will do
* ogra_thin needs to get useed to that sun keyboard
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: will login screen suggestions be accepted by the community this round?
<ogra_thin> flint, it should look similar to the one thats on the server
<cbx33> highvoltage, ??
<flint> ogra_thin, that is exactly what I saw, and liked!
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, AliasVegas will make the final decision ... but i guess based on community input
<flint> AliasVegas, you go girl!
<highvoltage> cbx33: for dapper, it was decided that only a professionally hired-person to canonical would do that design
<AliasVegas> :)
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> sorry highvoltage I got confused
<highvoltage> np
<lucasvo> we/canonical could hire AliasVegas :P
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, for egdy we have the art teams
<highvoltage> great
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, no art people get hired this cycle
<AliasVegas> does any one have any questions?
* highvoltage is happy to hear that
<highvoltage> AliasVegas: do you have a prefered format for artwork?
<lucasvo> AliasVegas: I do, -> query
<ogra_thin> but probably in a later one, who knows ... i'm not HR :)
<juliux> highvoltage, now it is a "community version" not the buisness one ;)
<flint> ogra_thin, why not see if we can offer a comission to artists?
<AliasVegas> or does anyone have any particular expertise in any of those areas of priority?
<AliasVegas> highvoltage: .jpg or .png would be fine
<lucasvo> best is vector! :)
<cbx33> of course, but sometimes not possible
<highvoltage> i like playing with the login screens, but i'm not a real artist
<ogra_thin> well, we probably should contact the upstream guy for gartoon (the icon theme)
<lucasvo> cbx33: true
<AliasVegas> highvoltage: go for it
<ogra_thin> there are many icons missing ...
<highvoltage> i wish we could have gartoon OOo
<cbx33> ogra_thin, are we using gartoon this release?
<ogra_thin> i'm fine doing some, but having upstream aboard would be cooler
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: that'd be jimmac, right?
<cbx33> or redesigning?
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, noppe
<ogra_thin> cbx33, redesigning ?
<cbx33> redoing
<cbx33> ?
<highvoltage> as in, new icon theme?
<ogra_thin> cbx33, where would we get the 100 ppl doing that ?
* cbx33 shuts up
<ogra_thin> there are some 100s of them
<ogra_thin> you cant make one icon theme in one dev cycle
<Amaranth> yeah, look at human :P
<ogra_thin> i'd propose to go on with gartoon for this time ... if there is real demand to do a new theme, lets start one now
<lucasvo> not only this, I think there is no reason for redesigning
<cbx33> how long did human take?
<highvoltage> gartoon is a great theme
<ogra_thin> but dont expect it to be finished before edgy+2
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> and people have really come to assosiate it with edubuntu
<lucasvo> cbx33: it's not finished afaik
<ogra_thin> highvoltage++
<ogra_thin> buit there are plenty new areas that gartoon doesnt cover
<rodarvus> well, you can do an icon theme in two months
<ogra_thin> evolution 
<ogra_thin> firefox
<rodarvus> but its a *lot* of work
* highvoltage nods
<rodarvus> really a lot
<ogra_thin> gnome-power-manager
<cbx33> ogra_thin, yes that was my thought
<cbx33> is there somewhere we can get a list of the missing icons
<cbx33> to make it easier for the artwork team
<ogra_thin> everything gets themeable and falls back to human
<lucasvo> well, one could do them in the gartoon style
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: gartoon does have icons for firefox and evolution?
<ogra_thin> exactly
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, nope
<ogra_thin> not for the evo toolbar
<highvoltage> aaah
<ogra_thin> using existing gartoon icons for ff shouldnt be a prob though
<ogra_thin> '(again i'm talking about the toolbar)
<cbx33> what about all the system/admin menus ?
<ogra_thin> (which is human themed now, iwj sent a mail to ubuntu-devel)
* cbx33 knows nothing about all this?
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<ogra_thin> they are either in the app packages or fit well
<cbx33> ok
<lucasvo> ogra_thin: will FF be in edgy? isn't evince replacing it?
<ogra_thin> evince ?
<ogra_thin> thats a pdf viewer
<cbx33> epiphany
<ogra_thin> i think you mean ephy
<ogra_thin> we havent decided that yet ...
<Amaranth> epiphany doesn't use xulrunner yet?
<ogra_thin> i'd like to see how much space we have left 
<ogra_thin> nope
<Amaranth> which confuses me, isn't it using xulrunner in debian?
<ogra_thin> thats the prob
<ogra_thin> it is
<ogra_thin> but in ubuntu xulrunner isnt in main
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: could this be of any use? http://www.deviantart.com/view/8657000/
<ogra_thin> code duplication ...
<rodarvus> and quite likely won't be in Edgy timeframe
<ogra_thin> yup
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, COOL !!!!
<ogra_thin> thanks for pointing
<rodarvus> we are looking for a Firefox developer to work fulltime on this kind of issue, but I seriously doubt it will happen for Edgy
* ogra_thin prepares a mail
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: :)
<ogra_thin> i'll talk to iwj how to get that in ...
<ogra_thin> but we still might jumpo over to ephy
<highvoltage> great! now for evo :)
<ogra_thin> since its lockable by pessulus
<cbx33> which helps us out a lot
<ogra_thin> well, not in terms of CD space
<ogra_thin> i'm very cautious
<cbx33> I know
<Amaranth> that reminds me, i had an idea
<ogra_thin> another question would be if we do the mono switch ubuntu does
<cbx33> be careful Amaranth 
<ogra_thin> that will cost us 10MB
<cbx33> ideas can be dangerous
<ogra_thin> i trus Amaranth 
<ogra_thin> *trust
<ogra_thin> speak up :)
<Amaranth> i'm going to expose public isGood/isBad methods in my dbus interface, was thinking if you used epiphany you could check those instead of trying to connect and being rejected by willowng
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: just looking at the evo icons, they seem pretty standard. i think evo is simply looking for icon names that don't exist, something that can be fixed with symlinks?
<Amaranth> then you could put custom blockage things in your epiphany
<Amaranth> custom messages
<rodarvus> ogra, also keep in mind that language packs exploded in size recently
<ogra_thin> apparently :(
<rodarvus> if we chose do include them, we are already screwed :)
* highvoltage blames rosetta
<Amaranth> like if (running on thin-client) show student error else show admin error and link to unblock
<ogra_thin> we only have english atm
<rodarvus> (I mean, those 10mb are long gone)
<cbx33> ogra_thin, are we still tied to kde for edgy?
<cbx33>  /kde/kdelibas
<rodarvus> yes
<ogra_thin> currently we are, yes
<rodarvus> and will be for some time, it seems
<ogra_thin> i'd like to hear RichEd about that part
<rodarvus> unless someone steps up and create gnome "versions" of all these apps
<ogra_thin> well, most of them have replacements we could use
<highvoltage> also more work than one release cycle :)
<ogra_thin> but one hasnt
<ogra_thin> kalzium isnt replaceable ....
* LaserJock wants to turn gperiodic into a Gnome version of kalzium
<ogra_thin> its a well noticed app 
<rodarvus> yes, kalzium is really really good
<highvoltage> ktuberling also doens't have a very nice gnome replacement
<ogra_thin> that'd be cool, but wont happen for edgy :)
<pygi> LaserJock, you could, just get contributors
<Amaranth> would it save any space putting in those replacements?
<highvoltage> and it's a killer with the real small kids
<Amaranth> or are the apps basically free once you have the libs and translations?
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, i'll write you one in 90min
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: great! thanks!
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, if its needed :P
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: yep, it is. thanks for volunteering!
<ogra_thin> as long as we have to ship KDE stuff i wont think about it
<rodarvus> Amaranth, it would save a good space
<rodarvus> *and*
<highvoltage> :p
<cbx33> LaserJock, and I talked about the gperiodic thing
<rodarvus> these new applications would have the same look'n feel as the rest of the desktop
<rodarvus> which is also desirable
<ogra_thin> we loose 80-100MB to KDE stuff
<Amaranth> rodarvus: _and_ we could drop kalzium and tell people to download it if they need it? :)
<ogra_thin> mnost libs and langpacks
<rodarvus> Amaranth, unfortunately, no
<Amaranth> :/
<ogra_thin> kalzium is a killer app
<ogra_thin> people demand it
<rodarvus> kalzium would only be dropped if we had something *very* good on GNOME
<rodarvus> which we don't.
<highvoltage> i still say that, if kde needs to be dropped, it needs to happen as soon as possible
* cbx33 is looking at working on gperiodic 
<Amaranth> have you tried to get the guy to make it only use Qt stuff?
<rodarvus> I don't think we have any other application on the level Kalzium currently is, education-wise
<ogra_thin> i think its rather a edgy+1 goal 
<LaserJock> I just don't see how we can possible have gnome replacements for edgy
<ogra_thin> i know i know i'm saying that since breezy
<lucasvo> cbx33: in which programming language is it written?
<rodarvus> LaserJock, we won't have] 
<pygi> lamont, we can't :P
<pygi> LaserJock, *
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, c++
<Amaranth> i imagine you could persuade him to make a Qt only version as he does the Qt4/KDE4 porting
<rodarvus> we are just using having some chit-chat here
<cbx33> LaserJock, ++
<ogra_thin> yeah
<cbx33> we can't
<ogra_thin> lets move on
<lucasvo> ogra_thin: even though it's an edgy+1 goal I think we could begin to begin in edgy
<LaserJock> isn't there SoC project or 2 for Gnome edu apps?
<ogra_thin> yep
<pygi> LaserJock, one I think
<pygi> it's going great
<ogra_thin> but they rather cover LAMS
<ogra_thin> its a question answer game
<rodarvus> the thing is: replacing kde apps with gnome counterparts is only going to happen if someone steps up, and do the job - until then, we are tied to what we currently have
<ogra_thin> ++
<rodarvus> and its very unlikely ogra or I will take this task in the near future (think at least one year from now)
<LaserJock> rodarvus: yeah, but they need motivation to write the apps too
<cbx33> LaserJock, ++
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how to motivate people to do it
<cbx33> $$$$
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'm j/k
<lucasvo> sponsor a bounty :)
<cbx33> well....
<Amaranth> oh damn, kalzium is a part of the kdeedu source package
<rodarvus> it is also very important to note this could be an immenselly good opportunity for a community member to participate actively, both in GNOME and Edubuntu communities
<LaserJock> but I agree that we can't just drop KDE edu if we don't have a decent replacment
<ogra_thin> i'll write a mail the next days to edubuntu-devel with some changes i'd like to make in the app selection ... but my big hope is to have another edubuntu summit with educators that give us fiorst hand input
<ogra_thin> and indeed RichEd :)
<rodarvus> so, if any of you is looking for a good project to work on, this is your chance! :)
<cbx33> rodarvus, already in mind
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, sadly ... and i have to maintain it
<ogra_thin> its a beast
<rodarvus> and, oh, yes. bounty is a possibility
<cbx33> rodarvus, I have a few ideas for projects....I'll chat to you later and you can tell me priorities
<rodarvus> just make sure to have a well defined plan
<rodarvus> (features, timeline, milestones, etc)
<Amaranth> i'll look into what it would take to make kalzium not depend on libkdeedu and kdelibs
<ogra_thin> haha
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: hack and slash :D
<ogra_thin> thats unlikely to work
<rodarvus> cbx33, sure, I'll be available most days, when you need/want to talk
<ogra_thin> but try it :)
<highvoltage> Amaranth: perhaps it's something stupid, like the help files or something :)
<LaserJock> I think it would be easier to write a pygtk frontend for the data
<lucasvo> Amaranth: to bad there is no element Galzium
<lucasvo> ah, one could make it to Germanium
<LaserJock> Germanium
<rodarvus> LaserJock, yes, this is something I believe could work too.
<lucasvo> even though it's not as common as Kalzium
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, we'll still have to ship KDE langpacks
<LaserJock> the important part of Kalzium is the data, IMO
<rodarvus> exactly
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, which include *all* KDE translations
<lucasvo> Is the learning curve for pygtk steep?
<highvoltage> in what form is the data stored?
<Amaranth> ogra_thin: whatever happened to split langpacks?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: xml
<highvoltage> nice
<LaserJock> it is nice
<LaserJock> I had a look at the data
<LaserJock> in Paris
<ogra_thin> Amaranth, we could do that ... but its a big effort
<cbx33> lucasvo, no
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Let's setup a team?
<LaserJock> waaaay better than gperiodic (data stored in .h)
<cbx33> lucasvo, PTGTK is nice and easy to learn
<rodarvus> lucasvo, not really
<lucasvo> what about making gperiodic use the kalzium data?
<rodarvus> python is extremely easy
<rodarvus> prototyping is very fast
<ogra_thin> ++
<rodarvus> and pygtk is ok
<lucasvo> rodarvus: I know python but no gtk
<Amaranth> LaserJock: We can always lift code from kalzium and port it
<cbx33> lucasvo, it's nice and easy
<cbx33> I looked at it
<LaserJock> ok, who's for making a pygtk Germanium? ;-)
<cbx33> it was pretty straight forward
<Amaranth> i imagine the actually rendering part is fairly desktop agnostic (it might use Qt)
<ogra_thin> lucasvo, cbx33 can teach you, he has the youngest edxperience jumping into pygtk here
<cbx33> my knowledge of pygtk and the like jeust meant I didn 't know how to do the popups with images on them
<rodarvus> Amaranth, I don't think it is desktop agnostic
<lucasvo> I can try.
<cbx33> lucasvo, I'll givey oua ll the help I can
<Amaranth> rodarvus: How can you possibly depend on kdeedu or kdelibs for the renderer? :P
<cbx33> but seriously the pygtk and python sites are invaluable
<rodarvus> but it should be rather easy to substitute Qt Canvas calls for PyCairo calls.
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra_thin> guys, we're out of t5ime
<Amaranth> oops
<rodarvus> indeed
<Amaranth> anything else to go over?
<cbx33> SOUNDS
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> nah we can chat in #edubuntu...oh wait I alreayd did :p
<ogra_thin> i dont think we have anything community/management tasks today RichEd is in london ...
<juliux> yeaht the great song from cbx33 ;)
<rodarvus> sorry for all the noise - it just seemed too good of an opportunity to raise awareness and interest on a rather nice project for the community :)
<ogra_thin> so lets move over
<cbx33> juliux, heard the latest one :p?
<juliux> ogra_thin, i wasnt able to change the meeting agenda ;)
<ogra_thin> rodarvus, no, it was fine ... 
<juliux> cbx33, not yet
<ogra_thin> juliux, huh ?
<ogra_thin> its a wiki page ...
<juliux> ogra_thin, but a locked page
<ogra_thin> so youre going for membership ?
<juliux> yes i want to try it
<lucasvo> juliux: no, butyou need to login
<juliux> ;)
<juliux> lucasvo, i am loged in
<ogra_thin> did you apply fot the LP team ?
<lucasvo> ?
<juliux> ogra_thin, yes
<ogra_thin> oh, right
<ogra_thin> erm, you are already ubuntu member
<juliux> and?? i thought edubuntu is extra
<highvoltage> lol
<ogra_thin> so that shouldnt be a problem
* highvoltage read already edubuntu member, sorry
<juliux> highvoltage, hehe
<ogra_thin> any objections from the EC that i make our biggest german promoter (who already is ubuntu member) an edubuntu member ?
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: not at all from my side
<ogra_thin> juliux promotes edubuntu at fairs and pressed the breezy edubuntu DVDs 
<ogra_thin> and is planning edubuntu t-shirts btw
<ogra_thin> LaserJock, ?
<juliux> ogra_thin, thanks for the work ;)
<LaserJock> ogra_thin: yeah?
<ogra_thin> see above 
<highvoltage> LaserJock: 23:13 < ogra_thin> any objections from the EC that i make our biggest german promoter (who already is ubuntu
<highvoltage> member) an edubuntu member ?
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, either your or my clock is very wrong :)
<LaserJock> doh, sorry
<LaserJock> juliux?
<ogra_thin> yes
<juliux> highvoltage, its ogra clock
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: as far as i can tell my clock is set correctly
<LaserJock> +1 from me
<ogra_thin> ok
<ogra_thin> +1 from me as well
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: sorry, you're right, i'm ssh'ed into another box which time is incorrect :)
<ogra_thin> highvoltage, only 4 mins :) ... do you vote officially =
<ogra_thin> ?
<highvoltage> ogra_thin: yes
<highvoltage> i replied first :  < highvoltage> ogra_thin: not at all from my side
<ogra_thin> can we see a + or - 1 ? *g*
<highvoltage> +1
<ogra_thin> yay
<juliux> ogra_thin, that is typical german ;)
<ogra_thin> welcome aboard juliux 
<highvoltage> sorry, a bit tired here, not as allert as usual
<juliux> thank you very much ogra_thin highvoltage LaserJock 
<ogra_thin> juliux, yes, i live in kassel now 
<juliux> ogra_thin, hehe
<ogra_thin> (that three out of 5 )
<ogra_thin> *thats
<highvoltage> juliux: i considered you a member all along, it's just official now :)
<cbx33> congrats juliux 
<Amaranth> highvoltage: your clock is about 4 minutes off?
<juliux> now i can start with the real projects ;)
<ogra_thin> there we grow :)
<juliux> thxs cbx33 
<highvoltage> Amaranth: yes, well, at least the box i'm ssh'ed into ;) (i don't have root)
<ogra_thin> ok, any other business ?
<ogra_thin> going once
<ogra_thin> going twice
<pygi> sold :)
<ogra_thin> adjourned
<Amaranth> $1!
<ogra_thin> :)
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone, keep well!
<juliux> gn8 highvoltage 
<ogra_thin> general chatter goes on in #edubuntu :)
<pygi> Amaranth, $2. don't lower the price now :P
* highvoltage > #edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-03
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 17:00: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 09 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<mdz> sfllaw,BenC,rodarvus,infinity,ogra,mvo,pitti,Kamion,Riddell,dholbach,iwj,Keybuk,seb128,doko,heno: ping
<doko> pong
<dholbach> mdz: pong
<mvo> good morning mdz
<sfllaw> mdz: Pong.
<pitti> Hi
<rodarvus> mdz, pong
* ogra yawns
<Riddell> pong
<mdz> BenC,infinit,Kamion,iwj,Keybuk,heno: 2 minutes
* pitti hands mdz a missing y to ping infinity
<cyphase> there needs to be a meeting bot
<cyphase> ;)
<cyphase> to handle all the pings/pongs
<fschoep> Good morning everyone.
<pitti> hi fschoep 
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> that was fast
<mdz> hmm, fschoep needed to leave early and so wanted to go first
<mdz> but I didn't think quite this early
<imbrandon> haha
<zul> morning
<mdz> fschoep: you wanted to go first, yes?
<fschoep> No that was last time.
<fschoep> I've got a long day ahead of me.
<fschoep> But no problem anyway -
<fschoep> Done:
<fschoep> * wide-theme-selector: updated spec, can someone take a peek?
<fschoep> * art-polish-human-icons: finish list of icons that need work
<fschoep> Ongoing:
<fschoep> * ubuntu-art-login-manager, ubuntu-art-login-splash, ubuntu-art-usplash, ubuntu-art-wallpaper: cull proposals, choose direction
<fschoep> * art-polish-human-gtk-theme: identify areas for improvement, now with community backing till 10th of August
<fschoep> * ubuntu-art-complete-highcontrast-icons, : find and document icons which need work
<fschoep> In the spotlight this week:
<fschoep> * several sound engineers joined the art mailing list, sounds like good news
<fschoep> Questions from Theme Teams and community:
<fschoep> * Are the Tango icons going to be included in Edgy by default?
<mdz> fschoep: have you heard from kwwii?
<zakame> hi all
<fschoep> two times this week, regarding Wiesbaden and media artwork.
<fschoep> I haven't heard him about (not) attending this meeting though.
<mdz> fschoep: do you have an idea when artwork will start to land in edgy?
<fschoep> Yes, sure.
<fschoep> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan
<mdz> fschoep: starting this week then?
<fschoep> Not really. It's a bit more complicated - shall I elaborate here?
<mdz> no, please mail
<mdz> thanks fschoep
<fschoep> Anyone else interested?
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<dholbach> fschoep: you can include me in the loop
<fschoep> Can someone please answer whether or not Tango icons are included by default in Edgy?
<rodarvus> fschoep, please CC me
<mdz> sfllaw: hello?
<dholbach> fschoep: Mark made the decision last time, but let's move the discussion to #ubuntu-devel or something
<rodarvus> I'm interested to hear to pass information to edubuntu artowrk
<Kamion> on my way, just charging through the excess scrollback I have here - had to pick up the child from his dad's
<rodarvus> s/$/team/
<fschoep> dholbach:, rodarvus: check
<mdz> fschoep: just send to -devel so everyone is in the loop
<ogra> fschoep, me too please (edubuntu)
<Kamion> (made it)
<ogra> even better
<fschoep> mdz: ogra: check
<mdz> sfllaw: if you fell asleep in your chair, ping when you wake up
<mdz> rodarvus: next
<rodarvus> Done:
<rodarvus>   * Finished update of X.Org video drivers
<rodarvus>   * Mucho work on X bugs (mainly xorg-server & drivers + escalated support bugs)
<rodarvus>   * Large Edubuntu/OLPC Administrativia
<rodarvus>   * Investigated X.Org patches from Fedora (turned out to be not so many, but at least half a dozen apper to be quite valuable)
<rodarvus> ToDo:
<rodarvus>   * More bugs
<rodarvus>   * Finish implementation of fully-automatic-swap-server
<rodarvus>   * Work on OLPC if time permits
<mdz> rodarvus: X has settled out OK on my hardware;  is there much more on your todo list there?
<rodarvus> X.Org transition is basically completed, barriing known bugs
<mdz> ok
<rodarvus> mdz, I have about two or three more bugx on xorg-srever
<rodarvus> and two nasty font-related bugs
<rodarvus> more stuff for drivers, but these are really hard to track
<mdz> thanks rodarvus
<rodarvus> thank you
<mdz> rodarvus: best to get the driver bugs forwarded upstream
<mdz> ogra: next
<rodarvus> *nods*
<ogra> * this-week:
<ogra>  - setting up ltsp lab
<ogra>  - started thinclient-local-devices
<ogra>  - started student-control-panel-completion
<ogra>  - move done ! (only need to find my stuff in this 100s of boxes now)
<ogra>  - screensaver for dapper-updates
<ogra> * next-week:
<ogra>  - knot2 (or point release ?) 
<ogra>  - hunting ltsp bugs
<ogra>  - more thinclient-local-devices
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion
<ogra> * specs: 
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion: (waiting for approval, started)
<ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in progress, needs spec additions (to be discussed with elmo))
<ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress)
<ogra>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (no progress)
<ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices (started)
<Kamion> ogra: knot2/point-release> both, I hope ...
<ogra> i'd like to mention that i'll likely be in michigan in sept for a ltsp hackfest for ltsp-convergence
<ogra> Kamion, ugh ...
<ogra> thats haevy testing stuff
<mdz> ogra: ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration?
<ogra> *heavy
<ogra> whoops, lost in the c&p
<Kamion> ogra: noted, but probably needs to be done anyway; I don't plan to do them on the same day or anything!
<ogra> ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration (not started yet)
<mdz> ogra: LP says Started
<ogra> well, i have some code, but its not in yet and i didnt work further one it 
<ogra> *on
<mdz> ok, so not resumed yet ;-)
<ogra> (started in dapper)
<ogra> yeah :)
<mdz> thanks ogra
<mdz> mvo: next
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - Summer of code mentoring
<mvo> - 3rd party software stuff 
<mvo> - update-manager work:
<mvo>   * initial dist-upgrader version for dapper->edgy
<mvo>   * display where a update comes from [update-manager-edgy] 
<mvo> - gnome-app-install work:
<mvo>   * rewrote the desktop/icon extraction to better support kde and re-run it on the archive
<mvo>   * profiling/caching (not that much progress yet)
<mvo> - misc (gksu, apt-listchange, lp)
<mvo> - send translated-package-descriptions custom launchpad upload script to cprov for inclusion (available on dogfood already) [apt-ddtp] 
<mvo> - uploaded new software-properties that implementes "easy-popcon-pariticipation" (via Statistics tab)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more 3rd party software (press-release pending)
<mvo> -  look into what aptitudes needs to natively work with the new apt auto-remove
<mvo> - gnome-app-install work (speedup, more popcon support)
<seb128> hi
* pitti hugs seb128
<ogra> mdz, oh, sorry o also forgot about SoC, willowng had its first upload
* seb128 hugs pitti
<ogra> s/o/i/
* dholbach hugs seb128
<mdz> mvo: ok, great, thanks
* seb128 hugs dholbach
<mvo> thank you
<mdz> pitti: next
<pitti> Done:
<pitti>  * security updates: thunderbird/enigmail, gnupg, tiff
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports:
<pitti>   - discussed UI frontend with mpt, who gave me a complete redesign which is really pleasing now (thank you!)
<pitti>   - implemented new UI design, uploaded
<pitti>   - backend is BLOCKED: needs changed kernel implementation of crash dump helper calling
<pitti>  * pkg-create-dbgsym: deployed on the buildds and active during package builds; fixed a few bugs which caused FTBFS (.ddebs are thrown away ATM, though)
<sfllaw> mdz: Ping.
<pitti>  * interviewed security engineer applicants; very good candidates amongst them, yay!
<pitti>  * for the record, the mysterious apt-ftparchive failure on the daily langpacks several times is fixed now
<pitti>  * built and tested fresh re-based dapper langpacks
<pitti>  * misc: new g-v-m, better cdbs-edit-patch,
<pitti> To Do:
<pitti>  * automated-problem-reports: some UI polish, discuss update-notifier fixes with mvo, discuss KDE frontend with Riddell
<mdz> sfllaw: everything ok?
<pitti>  * pkg-create-dbgsym: discussion with infinity about cowboying .ddebs to a public inofficial place
<pitti>  * more security updates, as always
<pitti> mvo: will you have some time today/tomorrow to discuss the update-notifier stuff?
<mvo> pitti: yes, that should be possible
<sfllaw> mdz: Chair sleeppage.
<mdz> pitti: is there a straightforward way to test/demo a-p-r?
<sfllaw> It's pretty early over here.
<pitti> mdz: apt-get install apport-gtk
<pitti> mdz: and then have something crash
<pitti> mdz: I just noticed that 0.5 with the new UI FTBFSed, fixing right now (missing build-dep)
<mdz> pitti: will kill -SEGV work?
<pitti> mdz: but the UI in 0.3 works as well
<seb128> pitti: still no bt though?
<pitti> mdz: yes, it will
<pitti> right, no backtraces
<pitti> <pitti>   - backend is BLOCKED: needs changed kernel implementation of crash dump helper calling
<mdz> pitti: maybe a call for testing with instructions would be good
<pitti> I discussed this with BenC, but I'm not sure whether he needs more discussion
<pitti> mdz: I intended to do that once it actually works
<mdz> pitti: yes, hmm, sounds like it's not straightforward to test/demo at this point because it won't work :-)
<pitti> mdz: well, you'll get a report with all information but a backtrace
<mdz> pitti: is there a timeline for .ddeb support in soyuz?
<pitti> mdz: I did not get a timeline from the soyuz guys
<mdz> pitti: oh, so the hook works and launches the app, but it can't get the stack?
<pitti> but PPA and security are higher on the list
<pitti> mdz: right
<pitti> mdz: mainly because gdb cannot attach to the crashed process, since that is in deep kernel sleep
<mdz> pitti: is there a spec in LP for .ddebs so that we can track it?
<pitti> mdz: it's a design problem right now, I have a better design now
<pitti> mdz: not right now (spec)
<pitti> when I discussed that with the LP guys, they said they don't need one
<pitti> but maybe it's better to create one
<mdz> pitti: that seems odd; it would be good to have it on their roadmap
<mdz> but ok
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> sfllaw: next
<sfllaw> Done
<sfllaw>  * Test plan for QuietenGrub
<sfllaw>  * Talked with BenC about kernel crash dumps and kprobes
<sfllaw>  * Hug day
<sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
<sfllaw>  * Talked to nags about LDTP.  Got cr3 involved in this
<sfllaw> To do
<sfllaw>  * More test plans
<sfllaw>  * Bug triaging
<sfllaw>  * Talk with Kamion
<sfllaw>  * Help zul get involved with test plans
<sfllaw>  * Teach MOTUs how to bug triage with a course on Friday
<Kamion> our timezones/free-times have not synced up well, sorry - let's try early evening my time / morning your time
<mdz> sfllaw: talk with Kamion about what?
<Kamion> revive-tasksel testing
<mdz> ah
<mdz> sfllaw: ok, thanks
<sfllaw> Welcome.
<mdz> Kamion: next
<Kamion> Done:
<Kamion>   dapper-point-release-process: SPARC fixes done; David Miller is testing them. Still trying to get the images down to size. Unapproved queue holding steady. Should be ready to start widespread testing today or so.
<Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: First cut at backend component done; it can build a correct-looking cache of what partman thinks of the partition layout, and it should be able to create, edit, and delete partitions. Seems to validate general approach.
<Kamion>   migration-assistant: Reviewed various chunks of work from my Google Summer of Code student, and uploaded the first packages to universe.
<mdz> fschoep: could you email kwwii and find out what happened?
<Kamion>   ubiquity: Rewrote localechooser's encoding handling to clear up bugs like #47742 (carried over from previous weeks).
<Kamion> Blocked:
<Kamion>   revive-tasksel: Still waiting for Soyuz deployment before final sign-off.
<fschoep> mdz: sure, no problem
<Kamion> To do:
<Kamion>   ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Next step is to glue a plain partition list display and a few buttons onto the front of this. Will need to handle resizing in the backend soon as well.
<Kamion>   dapper-point-release-process: Do all the rest of it ...
<fschoep> mdz: Not sure if I can get instant replies though.
<Kamion> sort of a short week this week - meeting schedule meant it was only four days between meetings, and I was away for two of those
<dholbach> will the sparc fixes be about bug 50778 too?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50778 in Ubuntu "Installer (partitioner) fails on Sun T2000 rev. 2" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50778
<mdz> fschoep: wasn't expecting an instant response
<Riddell> mdz, fschoep: kwwii said he was away until distro sprint, no answer on his phone so I guess he's left already
<mdz> Riddell: ah
<fschoep> Riddell: I thought he was leaving on the tenth?
<Kamion> dholbach: not to my knowledge, no
<mdz> Kamion: ok, thanks
<Riddell> fschoep: not sure, didn't get a date, I could be wrong
<mdz> Riddell: next
<mvo> Kamion: will the point release most likely happen this or next week?
<dholbach> Kamion: somebody in GNOME land told me about that one
<Riddell> done: KDE 3.5.4, HAL changes for 3.5.4, langpacks-desktopfiles-kde, trying out pyqt 4 (preparation for kubuntu-hwdb-client)
<fschoep> mdz: Riddell: I'll try to find out and report back soon.
<Kamion> mvo: this, I hope
<Riddell> next week: catch up with some community contributions on kubuntu-laptop-buttons, kubuntu-power-management, kubuntu-system-settings-usability.  mvo's pyKDE konsole patch
<dholbach> Riddell: some guys asked for an exception for cmake (to make kde4 happen) - is kde4 somehow a target for edgy?
<pitti> ah, right, we need to sanitize the hal mount scripts
<mdz> Riddell: of your other specs, how many of those should still be targeting edgy?  are you working on them all personally or are some of them other people's projects?
<Riddell> mdz: the ones mentioned in "next week" all have other people working on them
<mdz> Riddell: are the ones you mention above being worked on primarily by others?
<mdz> Riddell: could you update LP to reflect that?
<mdz> right now they're all assigned to you
<Riddell> dholbach: it's hoped that we'll have the build tools for it (so kde developers will all use kubuntu :)
<Riddell> mdz: ok
<dholbach> Riddell: nice, i told them to proceed with the upload.
<mdz> Riddell: also, langpacks-desktopfiles-kde is status Unknown in LP
<doko> Riddell: will we demote qt3 for edgy to universe?
<Riddell> mdz: it's done bar some final testing and rebuilding all of KDE, I'll update that too
<Riddell> doko: no, nowhere close to that
<mdz> Riddell: ok, thanks
<mdz> dholbach: next
<dholbach> Done
<dholbach>     * GNOME 2.14.3 (dapper-udpates)
<dholbach>     * Bug Triage
<dholbach>     * Hug Day
<dholbach>     * galago uploads done, gossip begun to use it, beagle somewhat unhappy with it (will look at it some more)
<dholbach> To do
<dholbach>     * more Bug Triage
<dholbach>     * GNOME 2.15.91 (next week)
<dholbach>     * more MOTU love (get a REVU day done, more easier-motuing
<dholbach> )
<mdz> dholbach: oh, the bug day already happened? I thought it was tomorrow for some reason
<mdz> did we recruit anyone new for ubuntu-qa? 
<imbrandon> yesterday ;)
<dholbach> it was yesterday and it was quite good, especially http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/BugState
<zul> whoops
<dholbach> quite a bunch of people worked on GNOME bugs and cleaned up some old ones - I'm quite happy with that
<Amaranth> so that's why random people were closing alacarte bugs :)
<imbrandon> and 3 or 4 of us on KDE bugs ;)
<dholbach> (and new people joined in the bug triage as well) - the notice was just a bit short
<mdz> the bug stats look fairly flat
<mdz> I guess that's from the scale
<sfllaw> mdz: I was hoping for a differences graph.
<sfllaw> That would be more significant.
<seb128> sfllaw: any luck you give an hand on desktop bugs maybe? :)
<dholbach> desktop bugs are really tough, i can't seem to get below 300 un-answered mails
<mdz> sfllaw: that should be doable in cricket; talk to stub
<seb128> same for me
<doko> dholbach: that page is more like gnome bugs ...
<dholbach> doko: it's the page of the desktop team :)
<doko> dholbach: how do I add packages to the desktop team? ;-P
<seb128> doko: you don't :p
<dholbach> doko: don't even think about it
<mdz> sfllaw: sounds like seb128 and dholbach could use some hands-on assistance in the trenches
<seb128> yep, really
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> mdz: de rien
<mdz> Keybuk: next
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * ReplacementInit; continuing work, had some problems this week with testing and have sadly found that rebooting workstation works the best
<Keybuk>  * BootMessageLogging: decided how to handle jobs that do require a real console
<Keybuk> To do:
<Keybuk>  * Two days off
<Keybuk>  * Further development work
<mdz> Keybuk: rebooting your workstation works better than using a different machine?
<Keybuk> yeah
<Keybuk> different machine means copying modified source over, rebuilding it there, and rebooting that
<Keybuk> it was ... annoying
<mdz> Keybuk: is boot-message-logging Started then, or not yet?
<Keybuk> somewhere between limbo and started
<mdz> ok
<mdz> thanks Keybuk
<Keybuk> I'm not convinced what I have is the right implementation
<mdz> seb128: next
<seb128> This week:
<seb128> - load of bugs triaged
<seb128> - GNOME 2.14.3 and some desktop fixes for dapper-updates
<seb128> . 
<seb128> Next week:
<seb128> - catching up with mails and SoC lag
<seb128> - GNOME 2.15.91
<seb128> - keep triaging bugs, load and load of them still to work on
<seb128> . 
<seb128> Note:
<seb128> - would be nice to announce useful things for the team by a mail. By example I was sort of expecting that we would get a mail about something like 6.06.1 some weeks before it (we really figured about it from what Colin said to the previous meeting). Other example: dapper-proposed, looks something useful to me and I only learnt about it some days ago because doko and pitti was speaking on IRC about it
<mdz> seb128: is the bug volume still so high since dapper?
<seb128> mdz: yep, doesn't go down
<mdz> hmm, I didn't think -proposed actually existed/worked yet
<seb128> I've not caught up since my week of vac, paris summit, guadec
<Kamion> mdz: doko's been uploading to it, seems to work
<seb128> my "unread" (ie: to reply to) count is around 300
<dholbach> To me it seems that the amount of new bugs is the same, but the noise is less.
<Kamion> we didn't actually know it worked until doko tried, though
<doko> seb128: dapper-proposed is mentioned in some spec (I think dapper-point-one-release), but I agree, it's hard to find these (like display of the NEW queue in lp)
<mdz> sfllaw: please help them out and see if you can recruit some ongoing help as well.  maybe the three of you could put together a call for help to -devel-announce?
<seb128> doko: you don't expect everybody reading every spec in case something useful is hidding there? :p
<ogra> -proposed was announced anywhere (fridge ? )
<ogra> i think in the ubuntu news ...
<mdz> Kamion: are there packages in there which need review for the point release?
<seb128> I would really have liked to have 6.06.1 announce early though
* mvo agrees with seb128
<Kamion> I think for the moment it's best to use -proposed only for carefully-selected things; I'm not quite sure about the workflow yet
<seb128> I would have organized desktop fixing some other way around and worked dapper fixes before edgy updates
<mdz> we've talked about the point release fairly regularly; I thought everyone was aware
<seb128> speaking on IRC is sort of not really formal
<Kamion> mdz: openoffice.org and kin
<seb128> I didn't realize it was NOW until the comments from Kamion previous week
<mdz> seb128: agreed, for folks who only follow the lists it probably  seemed like short notice
<seb128> I didn't even know for sure we were rolling new CD images
<Kamion> that's the whole point :-)
<seb128> might be my fault too, but too many lists, IRC chans, wiki, etc to follow ... have proper announce mails is nice for informations like that
<mdz> we should announce the target date more in advance next time, so that everyone can get in proposals for updates
<seb128> thank you
<mdz> Kamion: add a note to DapperPointReleaseProcess about that?
<mvo> is there a second point release planed?
<Kamion> mdz: ok, will do
<mdz> mvo: of dapper you mean?  that's unclear
<Kamion> mvo: in principle, but no schedule
<imbrandon> over three years i'm sure there will be a few mvo
<mvo> is was wondering if I should try to upload a pending notification-daemon fix
<mvo> but I'm a bit concerned that it is now way too short
<Kamion> uploading dapper updates meeting the usual criteria is valuable even if they miss the point release
<mvo> and it won't get enough testing
<mdz> mvo: don't rush it to try to make this point release; users will still download updates
<Kamion> but yes, now isn't the best time for things which need lots of testing
* mvo nods
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> doko: next
<doko> - this week
<doko>   - openoffice.org 2.0.3: done for dapper-proposed and edgy, ia32-libs updates for dapper-proposed and edgy
<doko>   - edgy-toolchain: benchmarking/testing the -mtune=generic patches using the pystone benchmark.
<doko>   - java-roadmap: ecj-bootstrap update, merging the classpath 0.92 release branch to the trunk, upload of a first gcj-4.2 package building gcjwebplugin-4.2; first attempt to merge the FC backport of classpath-0.92 to gcc-4.1
<doko>   - other: ia32-libs updates for -security
<doko>   - learned that OOo doesn't belong to the desktop
<doko> - next week
<doko>   - decide if OOo 2.0.3 gets included in the dapper point release
<doko>   - java-roadmap: merge some more packages from main (requesting UVF exceptions).
<doko>   - python-roadmap: updates of the application packages in main to the new policy; packages providing modules are done.
<doko>   - python2.5: 2.5 beta3 update
<doko>   - updating one or two machines to edgy
<doko> - other: time frame for the testing / experimental buildd's?
<Kamion> doko: 2.0.3> where "next week" is "today" I hope
<mdz> doko: "doesn't belong to the desktop"?
<doko> Kamion: yes, or tomorrow. we need to check the CD sizes as well.
* pitti thinks that a huge package like OO.o would really make sense on the CDs
<Kamion> doko: today please
<doko> mdz: nah, the desktop team sees the desktop without OOo, nothing more. missed a :-/, :-(, ;-)
<mdz> OOo doesn't play very nicely with the rest of the desktop :-P
<doko> Kamion: ok, is there an easy way to do that?
<dholbach> doko: OOo and firefox are ... projects of their own ;)
<mdz> Kamion: have you heard from Ian recently?
<Kamion> doko: -> #ubuntu-devel after meeting
<Kamion> mdz: hmm, no, shall I phone him?
<mdz> Kamion: no, I'll mail
<doko> dholbach: no, we're doing *one* desktop, IMHO we should not transport this view to the users
<doko> Kamion: ok
<mdz> and BenC as well
<seb128> doko: we don't have the manpower to not special case firefox and openoffice
<mdz> did I miss anyone?
<zul> me..
<seb128> doko: dholbach and I are already over bug-worked without those
<mdz> zul: sorry, ready
<mdz> ?
<doko> mdz: are you ok with the upload of the -mtune-generic backport to edgy?
<zul> Done:
<zul> * xen testing with iwj
<zul> * xen bug hunting
<zul> * release xen on to the mases
<zul> Todo:
<zul> * xen amd64 get it working properly
<zul> * kernel updates
<zul> * grub triaging and bug fixing
<mdz> zul: is xen suitable for casual experimentation now?
<zul> yes it is
<mdz> doko: I'm not familiar with that change; do I have mail about it?
<zul> i was running it on my edgy workstation at work
<mdz> zul: is there a basic howto of some sort?
<zul> on the wiki
<zul> Done:
<doko> mdz: yes, the email exchange with Maxim ("what gcc version ...")
<mdz> doko: if you are satisfied with the performance testing (no serious regressions), yes
<zul> mdz: i probably need to update the howto as well
<mdz> doko: max suggested testing on the machine that Ben has
<mdz> zul: what's the name of the page?
<doko> mdz: what machine does Ben have?
<zul> XenOnEdgy i believe
<zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenOnEdgy
<mdz> doko: I forget the codename for it; Ben will be able to tell you
<mdz> zul: thank you
<mdz> anyone else have more updates or questions?
<mdz> ok, finished ahead of schedule then
<mdz> thanks everyone
<dholbach> yoohoo! :)
* mdz yawns
<doko> mdz: what the test build daemons? private package archives?
<sfllaw> dholbach, seb128: I will rally the troops to help you out.
<mdz> doko: testing the performance
<sfllaw> Let me know if you want any specific wording in the announcement.
<seb128> sfllaw: thank you ;)
<doko> mdz: if you need a tester, I'd like to start with some python2.5 work on it
<mdz> heno: good morning, we've just wrapped up but most of us are still around listening if you have an update prepared
<zul> sfllaw: when do you want to sit down and talk? obviously not now
<heno> mdz: on the wiki, are we pasting?
<Amaranth> where is the wiki that has all the bulleted lists that people were pasting in here?
<mdz> heno: yes
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20060803
<heno> Done
<heno>  * catch up on mail, mailing lists and [http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=145 support forum] .
<heno>  * Community: Held Ubuntu Access BOF at LUG Radio Live. Working with AT consultants WRT the [http://www.oatsoft.org/ OATS project] .
<heno>  * Magnification - work on compiz-mag is still mostly stagnant. Will focus on gnome-mag for edgy, where upstream is now making performance improvements with COMPOSITE.
<heno>  * Desktop speech synthesis - Orca, our chosen screen reader, has also been accepted by Gnome as the default. Waiting for result of main inclusion request to proceed with seed change.
<heno>  * sok: steady progress, packages available. Reads keyboard layout from xkb and uses the current layout (optional).
<heno> To do
<heno>  * On Tuesday I'm attending the launch meeting of the OATS (Open Source Assistive Technology Software) project in London. 
<heno>  * sok: setup bzr hosting for on LP and get help on adding it to universe. Continue to work with Chris on outstanding features like config panel and 'scanning'.
<heno>  * Desktop speech synthesis - Some testers are reporting problems with AT-SPI in Gnome 2.15/Edgy. Needs investigation.
<heno>  * livecd-access - no change - I need feedback on the proposed gfxboot changes. (sound and image files [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Specs/LiveCdAccess here] ).
<sfllaw> zul: Too early.
<sfllaw> zul: Tomorrow, please?
<heno> hm, that didn't paste too well with the links 
<zul> sfllaw: sure...im going back to bed now
<sfllaw> zul: Or rather, later today.  Same here.
<mdz> heno: that's ok, thanks
<mdz> heno: you were at LRL on the first day I guess? i was there the second day
<Kamion> sorry, I've been doing a million and one things as usual, will try to get to gfxboot review before I go on holiday if possible
<heno> just the first day, yes, mdz
<heno> Kamion: thanks, just let me know if I've got the file formats right and such
<heno> in case I have to redo any of it
<zul> night everyone
<pitti> thanks everyone
<dholbach> sfllaw: no specific wording, just something fancy which attracts people - maybe you can point to the wiki pages and the irc channels
<Hobbsee> dholbach: what's this for?  people to fix bugs?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: join the desperate fight to get the bug count down
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ah right.  i was doing bits of that yesterday :)
<dholbach> yeah :)
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Aug 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 23:00: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-04
<lucas> rg
<flint> @user
<flint> @schedule 
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 21:00: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<flint> @schedule DC
<flint> @schedule New York
<flint> @schedule New_York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 17:00: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<studisi> hi
<studisi> hm, cu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-06
<imbrandon> @schedule us/central
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 09 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 16:00: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 17 Aug 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 09 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Aug 00:00: Kubuntu | 15 Aug 23:00: Technical Board | 16 Aug 23:00: Edubuntu | 18 Aug 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-03
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* #ubuntu-meeting  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
(kraut/#ubuntu-meeting) moin
<udienzMahyuddin> hi all
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-05
<JJNova> Hello Maczimus
<Maczimus> jj you must have a hello script ;)
<JJNova> I'm just stalking you actually.
<elkbuntu> sorry to anyone who was here for the loco meeting. I totally lost track of time :(
<schpenke> elkbuntu: I was here for it.  It's cool.  Are we rescheduling?
<udienzMahyuddin> Melissa Draper <melissa@meldraweb.com> was created comfrmed e-mail
<elkbuntu> schpenke, yes, i think so. it is now 3am for me
<schpenke> elkbuntu: That's fine.  I'll see you all during the rescheduled meeting.  Get some sleep.  ;)
<udienzMahyuddin> all, let's go sleep
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-28
<udienz-> @now
<ubottu> udienz-: Current time in Etc/UTC: July 28 2008, 10:39:57 - Next meeting: Maintainer scripts in 3 hours 20 minutes
<ace_suares> hi all
<ace_suares> is there somehting like ubuntu-pr ?
<ace_suares> i would like to find a speaker for a seminar.
<jpds> ace_suares: -pr?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Maintainer scripts | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jul 14:00 UTC: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-29
<amachu> test
<ramadas> test
<amachu> test
<persia> amachu: don't worry: your network won't fail for 16 minutes or so...
<amachu> persia: :-)
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
<persia> We approach both time and quorum.  Hurrah.
<amachu> persia: TheMuso: elkbuntu: Hi
<elkbuntu> hi
<TheMuso> Greetings amachu.
<TheMuso> Sorry I wasn't hear last week, my head still wasn't in gear after my travels the previous weekend.
<persia> I'll claim that too (although I was actually asleep) :)
<amachu> Belutz: Hi
<amachu> lifeless: hi
<amachu> zakame ??
<amachu> Welcome everyone
<elkbuntu> im also sorry, i had a badly infected ear (to the point it was bleeding, eep!)
<amachu> persia: ;-)
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: oh yuk.
<amachu> TheMuso: thats fine
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, the doc put me on the wrong antibiotics, so it's only just gotten better the past few days. i found some of a different type and self-medicated. bad bad bad me.
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: oh fun.
<Belutz> amachu, hi
<TheMuso> So it appears we only have on applicant this time around.
<TheMuso> one applicant even.
<iang> hi all..
<amachu> TheMuso: yes
<amachu> iang: hi
<amachu> We will start then..
<amachu> ??
<amachu> iang: Welcome! Go ahead introducing yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu..
<amachu> elkbuntu: :-)
<Belutz> amachu, iang is doing his evening prayer for a moment
<amachu> Belutz: ok
<elkbuntu> fine by me. coffeeeeeeeee
<Belutz> elkbuntu, 1 cup for me please :-)
<elkbuntu> Belutz, milk, sugar?
<Belutz> elkbuntu, milk ok, not too many sugar
<iang> Hello all..
<iang> should I start?
<Belutz> iang, yes please
<TheMuso> Yes please do.
<iang> my name is Fajran Iman Rusadi
<iang> I am still a student now, studying computer science at the Universiteit van Amsterdam
<iang> I don't really remember when I joined the Indonesia LoCo team. I just joined the mailing list
<iang> (humm.. around 2005 i think) and make a lot of discussion in it
<iang> when we (indonesian LoCo team) made our first release party, I was assigned to coordinate the ubuntu repository on dvd distribution project
<iang> maybe because, till now, in every release, I make a ubuntu dvd repository and distribute it to everyone who needs it
<TheMuso> yangDo you have anybody who has come along to the meeting to support you today?
<TheMuso> iang: ^^
<TheMuso> typo :p
<iang> oh yes.. belutz attended it
<Belutz> TheMuso, I do :)
 * takdir too
<iang> i think that is a very successful project. i never heard that "dvd repository" project before
<Belutz> iang, what will you do if you become an ubuntu member?
<iang> due the limited internet connection in my country, a handy dvd collection that contains the whole ubuntu packages is very useful
<iang> i will keep making contribution in the community
<iang> influence people to use ubuntu
<iang> well.. maybe because i don't live in indonesia for some time
<iang> i can only make "online" contributions
<Belutz> for the record iang also maintain the ubuntu-id website www.ubuntu-id.org
<iang> yes i'm one of the maintainer
<Belutz> he also maintain one of ubuntu repository server in http://kambing.ui.edu/ubuntu/
<elkbuntu> iang, do you do any translation stuff?
<iang> (and fyi, this is my wiki and launchpad page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FajranImanRusadi and https://launchpad.net/~iang )
<iang> elkbuntu: yes
<iang> but not very active at the moment
<elkbuntu> what are you most active in at the moment, in ubuntu as a whole?
<Belutz> and his dvd repositories is very very useful in spreading the use of Ubuntu in Indonesia, almost every part of Indonesia who use Ubuntu is using DVD repositories
<amachu___> Belutz: DVDs are the need.
<takdir> and i like his project at http://labs.fajran.web.id/p/apt-web/ it's help us
<takdir> if any body did not have a good internet connection and will download some package include it's dependency in internet cafe, office, etc.
<Belutz> amachu, true :)
<iang> at the moment, i'm busy in the BlankOn project
<iang> an ubuntu derivation, targeted for indonesian users
<amachu___> iang: DVD has all the components are the Ubuntu DVD itself
<Belutz> ah yes, apt-web is also very useful for someone to download packages from internet cafes
<iang> amachu: Ubuntu DVD only contains part of the whole repository
<amachu> iang: ya.. ya..
<iang> and the dvd that i make contains the complete repository
<amachu> in a single DVD?
<Belutz> 5 DVDs
<Belutz> :D
<iang> no.. for the hardy release, there are 5 dvds
<amachu> Beutz: I also thought, might all thats essential for Indonesia in one DVD ;-)
<iang> actually, i'm wondering my ubuntu doesn't make that dvd repository.. just like debian
<iang> s/my/why
<amachu> iang: Is that also available for download
<iang> yes
<amachu> all five DVDs? where?
<iang> ftp://kambing.ui.edu/pub/ubuntu-repository/
<Belutz> and also here ftp://dl2.foss-id.web.id/iso/ubuntu-repository
<iang> kambing.ui.edu is one of FOSS mirror in indonesia
<amachu> iang: thats great
<iang> i am one of the maintainer of kambing.ui.edu
<iang> and i receive many emails
<iang> asking about dvd repository for other distros
<iang> as far as i know, there is a guy from opensuse community team in indonesia who also makes dvd repository for opensuse
<iang> so i think, this project is a success and really needed by people in indonesia who use ubuntu
<Belutz> yes indeed
<amachu> how do you people share it across
<amachu> how do you send them to people wanting for it? ship it?
<iang> yes
<iang> it's not free, but it's very very cheap
<Belutz> but they are free to download
<amachu> ok
<iang> only around $7 for those 5 DVDs
<iang> just for covering the production and distribution cost
<iang> and those DVDs are always free to download
<amachu> what is Packaging Team Coordinator?
<takdir> iang always send me dvd repo to my city, especially if there is ubuntu release party  :D
<amachu> what role you play in that position for Blankon
<amachu> ?
<iang> I'm involved in the BlankOn project (ubuntu derivation distro)
<iang> we build our own repository, well.. most of the packages are derived from ubuntu
<iang> and i'm the coordinator of the packager team who maintains the packages in the BlankOn repository
<iang> sometime, I also make a tutorial session
<amachu> can you describe few jobs you do as co-ordinator
<amachu> how big is the packager team
<amachu> ?
<iang> I have to get some team members..  and share my knowledge to them so they can also maintain packages
<takdir> one of package in BlankOn is daluang. iang packaging it, http://code.google.com/p/daluang/ may be it will be an ubuntu package someday :)
<iang> we also have some packages that have to be maintained and it is my task to distribute the packages to the members
<TheMuso> persia, amachu, elkbuntu, Belutz. What do you say we take a vote? I think we've heard enough, unless there are any remaining questions...
<Belutz> TheMuso, agree
<elkbuntu> no questions from me
<amachu> TheMuso: ya.. I agree..
<Belutz> +1 from me for all his contributions and efforts for Ubuntu-ID
<persia> I'm good.
<Belutz> and I'm sure he will continue to give his contributions to FOSS world especially Ubuntu
<amachu> iang: great job. +1 from me
<TheMuso> +1 from me. I'm very impressed with what he has done so far, and I wish him luck for the future, and hope he continues to do great work for the community.
<TheMuso> iang: If you want to get packages for Indonesian
<TheMuso> iang: If you want to get packages for Indonesians into Ubuntu, check out #ubuntu-motu on freenode, we can help you get the packages into Ubuntu proper.
<elkbuntu> +1 from me also
<iang> TheMuso: ok
<persia> +1 from me.  Lots of good work, and over a good period of time.  Strong prospects of continued work.
<amachu> anybody left?
<amachu> lifeless: ??
<TheMuso> idle: 0 days, 4 hours, 50 mins.
<amachu> lifeless: lifeless :-)
<amachu> iang: Best Wishes!
<amachu> any thing more from anyone to share?
<amachu> persia: TheMuso: elkbuntu : Belutz : ?
<Belutz> iang, congratulations! welcome aboard
<iang> thank you all :) hope your support can make me to contribute more
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<amachu> others
<iang> ah yes :)
<Belutz> amachu, should we close the meeting?
<amachu> Ok then. Thank you every one for participating.. Have a nice time..
<TheMuso> Thanks all.
<Belutz> amachu, thanks :)
<Belutz> TheMuso, thanks
<Belutz> elkbuntu, thanks, and thanks for the coffee :D
<Belutz> persia, thanks
<iang> thanks all :)
<amachu> iang: Welcome! and rock more :-)
<elkbuntu> Belutz, :)
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> Keybuk: ping
<Keybuk> mdz: I am here
<mdz> Keybuk: are you feeling well enough to participate in the meeting?
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm attending from sabdfl's other office ;)
<mdz> I'll pretend not to know what you mean
<mdz> [TOPIC] cdrtools
<MootBot> New Topic:  cdrtools
<mdz> Joerg Schilling has proposed that we should switch from cdrkit back to cdrtools
<mdz> that's currently impossible because cdrtools isn't in Ubuntu
<mdz> cdrtools isn't in Ubuntu because it was removed in December
<mdz> it was removed because it was believed to be undistributable due to incompatible licensing
<mdz> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/177154
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/177154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 177154 in cdrtools "cdrtools is undistributable" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Keybuk> has the licence issue been addressed?
<mdz> I am presently discussing this with Joerg by email
<mdz> progress is slow
<mdz> I've raised three issues: 1. cdrtools restricts modification, which I believe fails to meet our licensing guidelines for Ubuntu (though it could go in multiverse, it could not replace cdrkit), 2. linking of GPL and CDDL licensed modules into the same executable, and 3. licensing of the makefiles under CDDL when portions of the work are GPL
<mdz> Joerg does not as yet acknowledge any of these issues as valid
<mdz> but says he is very eager to reach agreement with us
<Keybuk> what's Amanda's opinion on this?
<Keybuk> (note to public: Canonical's lawyer)
<mdz> 1. is a policy issue which I think is up to us to interpret
<mdz> 2. is dependent on the legal notion of derivative works, which is hazy at best for software.  Amanda has asked for clarification from a German lawyer
 * ogra wonders who the heck licenses makefiles sepatately ... tsk
<mdz> 3. hinges on whether the makefiles are "scripts used to control the compilation and installation" of cdrtools (GPL) or a separate work which is merely aggregated with cdrtools
<mdz> the obvious interpretation is the former, so I've asked Joerg to explain why he believes the latter
<mdz> so far, he has not offered an explanation
<mdz> though I know he has had all of these arguments with other  distributors before and probably has plenty of argument to make
<sabdfl> Keybuk: haven't yet engaged Amanda. Joerg says Sun's legal is convinced of his argument, and suggests FSF is too
<sabdfl> if we are going to take it further i would hope to get consensus with SFLC or FSF and try to bring Debian on board, too
<mdz> sabdfl: I have asked her opinion on a few specific points
<mdz> but I think mostly we need to work this out with Joerg
<sabdfl> can we make much more progress on this without a reply from Joerg?
<Keybuk> my thoughts, not necessarily in a coherent order:
<Keybuk> - software in main should be free to use and modify, thus cdrtools has restrictions that prevent it being in main
<ogra> is there a technical reason that we dont want cdrkit anymore ?
<Keybuk> - our primary upstream is Debian, Debian use cdrkit
<ogra> s/dont/would not/
<Keybuk> - if we fork, and use cdrtools, who would maintain it?  important since it's a key part of our CD building infrastructure
<mdz> ogra: two of our own developers, and upstream, have suggested that it is worth considering
<Keybuk> - Fedora and SuSE both seem to use cdrkit as well
<mdz> and we need to resolve these issues to decide whether it is an option
<mdz> Keybuk: and Mandriva
<Keybuk> mdz: Mand-who? ;)
<Keybuk> - thus I find it hard to associate a large installed base with "unmaintained and abandoned"
<Keybuk> - cdrtools upstream has a long history of not being co-operative with Linux users
<cjwatson> the GPL/CDDL linking issue also came up with Nexenta, and various copyright holders of GPL-licensed software said they felt it would be a violation of their licence to link with CDDL software
<Keybuk> cdrtools bugs are treated as "bugs in Linux" and closed with comments like "use solaris"
<cjwatson> so regardless of the outcome here we should take explicit care not to set a precedent
<mdz> cjwatson: in this case, I think most of Joerg's code is CDDL, and we haven't heard from any other copyright holders
<sabdfl> he says he has 80%+ of the code
<cjwatson> mdz: right, in this case Joerg seems to be the primary GPL holder so it seems like it'd depend on his interpretation, but nevertheless, it is important to be clear that this does not represent Ubuntu claiming that the GPL and CDDL are compatible
<mdz> ...which doesn't give him any rights with regard to the rest
<sabdfl> he came across, in our meeting, as being genuinely interested in Linux and Ubuntu
<mdz> sabdfl: he clearly wants his software to be successful and have mindshare in the community
<cjwatson> mdz: (oh, sorry, I misread your comment. But the second part of my comment holds either way.)
<sabdfl> he states that cdrtools is more actively maintained than cdrkit
<mdz> when he changed the licensing, it very quickly became a minority as major distributors migrated away from it
<sabdfl> mdz: yes, but he didn't seem willing to bend the truth to attain that, he seems focused on end users and making stuff work
<sabdfl> cjwatson: so what you're saying is, it may be OK if the primary copyright holder says in this case it's OK, that's different to whether or not the licenses are compatible
<sabdfl> ?
<mdz> (I just got another reply from Joerg during the meeting btw)
<cjwatson> sabdfl: seems I was unclear, I wasn't really trying to say anything about this case at all, simply that *if* we accept cdrtools we should be careful to state that that does not imply that other GPL/CDDL linkage is OK
<sabdfl> right
<cjwatson> sabdfl: in general it would require all copyright holders of GPL material to say it's OK, not just the primary contributor, I think
<cjwatson> and then one would have to be careful to avoid linking in other GPL material from other projects
<cjwatson> GPL+exception can be done, but it is awkward
<cjwatson> [disclaimer: this is based on my Debian experience so I'm sure some parties would view it as tainted :-)
<cjwatson> ]
<Keybuk> sabdfl: this does not fit with my past experience of him, where he has actively refused to modify cdrtools to "make stuff work"
<Keybuk> e.g. cdrtools still does not accept Linux device names for devices
<mdz> whatever the legal and practical issues, it may not be worth the headache of dealing with Joerg
<mdz> I have found my ottempts thoroughly unrewarding
<mdz> s/ottempts/attempts/
<mdz> but I will continue to try for a while longer
<mdz> unless, of course, someone else wants to take over
<mdz> my point of view is that he is coming to us to try to convince us to include his software
<mdz> in which case, I think the burden is on him to be constructive and address our concerns
<sabdfl> cjwatson: i think most courts would accept "substantial majority", especially if the minority cannot be contacted, but i'm not an expert
<mdz> I've explained them as clearly as I can, but he seems to want us to convince him rather than refuting them
<cjwatson> sabdfl: mm, I suspect the D-BUS guys would like to have a clear word on that at the moment, though that's a side issue ;)
<sabdfl> i think we have an active upstream, doing good work, and we also have a strong ubuntu contributor, siretart, who's keen to take care of packaging and integration
<sabdfl> so, that's positive
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the D-Bus problem is that they can't contact the majority contributors, since it's a defunct company
<sabdfl> the upstream is difficult to communicate with, though
<Keybuk> sabdfl: the same statement holds true for cdrkit though, no?
 * siretart waves in the round
<sabdfl> Keybuk: is cdrkit widely believed to be of similar quality and activity?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it's in use by every distribution that matters
<Keybuk> this to me implies both quality and activity
<siretart> development activity is arguably low in cdrkit.
<siretart> e.g. it does not support blueray burners at all
<sabdfl> siretart: joerg says that cdrtools fixes all the open bugs except for 2 packaging ones
<sabdfl> is that true?
<siretart> sabdfl: I've explained him how to use launchpad and bug triaging. he triaged all bugs in launchpad regarding cdrtools
<Keybuk> this may be a distorted statement
<mdz> none of them are marked fixed upstream
<Keybuk> since Ubuntu doesn't ship cdrtools, we have few open bugs on it
<sabdfl> we could ask Sun's lawyers for their analysis. if it turns out that it slipped in under the radar, and they have issues, Joerg may be willing to simplify the picture
<Keybuk> what is more interesting is whether cdrtools fixes the open bugs against cdrkit
<siretart> for many bugs he acknowledged and claimed the bug to be fixed in a later version, some he rejected and some he asked for clarification
<Keybuk> which we do ship, and is substantially the same codebase
<siretart> all in all he did a lot of bug triaging work, in his usual aggressiveness
<sabdfl> Keybuk: i think joerg meant that cdrtools fixes the cdrkit bugs
<sabdfl> but... i  don't know
<sabdfl> siretart: meaning, marking them "wontfix"?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: to give an example of a recent Joerg "fixed it" comment:
<Keybuk> Cdrecord uses a new libscg since August 2006. The new library contains
<Keybuk> a workaround for the incompatible interface changes in the linux kernel that
<Keybuk> caused the problems.
<Keybuk> investigation reveals that he "worked around" the problem by deleting all of the code
<Keybuk> and thus not fixing the bug at all
<sabdfl> Keybuk: so, you're not convinced that cdrtools would give a better user experience?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: I am convinced it would be a worse one
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> siretart: ?
<siretart> sabdfl: either 'wontfix' or 'rejected'. I have to admit that I reviewed only via email but didn't spot grave mistakes
<siretart> sec, he calls me right now
<Keybuk> (the incompatible interface change is the move to sata fwict)
<sabdfl> i have been pursuing this primarily because:
<sabdfl>  - i got the sense that cdrtools was more actively maintained, fewer bugs, better features
<sabdfl>  - i figured that the licensing issues could be resolved between Sun, FSF and us
<sabdfl>  - i figured we have active community participation to lead the packaging and maintenance
<sabdfl> if the first isn't true, then there's no point in the work involved in the latter
<mdz> sabdfl: cdrkit contains features, such as specifying the device to use by /dev pathname rather than SCSI IDs, which cdrtools upstream objects to
<Keybuk> sabdfl: it's worth pointing out that about the only place we use these tools directly is in our CD build code
<Keybuk> in the UI, we use libburn
<mdz> sabdfl: I don't think there is any more or less community participation in packaging cdrtools vs. cdrkit.  They are based on the same code base, and equally interesting to most people who care about optical media
<sabdfl> ok. seems there is a growing consensus on the "don't change" side of this debate
<mdz> fortunately, the pervasiveness of USB flash media mean that fewer people require this as time goes on
<mdz> ok, anything further to say on this topic?
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<mdz> I intend to reply to Joerg's latest email, but if the quality of the conversation doesn't improve, it will probably be my last attempt
<mdz> this has been going on for most of a year now, and we should try to draw it to a close
<mdz> [TOPIC] other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  other business
<mdz> AOB?
<Keybuk> none from me
<mdz> ok, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:51.
<sabdfl> thanks all
<ivoks> \o/
<zul> helllo
<ivoks> zul: any news on that bacula patch for proposed?
<kirkland> howdy
<zul> ivoks: havent had a chance to look at it yet
<ivoks> ok
<sommer> hey all
<ivoks> it's a trivial changre
<zul> i know, Ive seen it :)
<mathiaz> hello world !
<sommer> yo
<kirkland> howdy
<dendrobates> \o\
<dendrobates>   /\
<mathiaz> let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Previous meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080722
<ivoks> and rest of the universe...
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Clamav and spamassassin in main
<MootBot> New Topic:  Clamav and spamassassin in main
<mathiaz> ScottK told me that there are some more MIRs that need to be written
<mathiaz> so that clamav and spamassassin can be moved to main
<mathiaz> any help in this area is welcomed
 * nijaba waves
<ivoks> i've promised some work, but didn't have time yet :/
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<MootBot> New Topic:  Boot Support for Degraded RAID
<mathiaz> kirkland: got some feedback on testing ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I have instructions in the wiki page
<kirkland> mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootDegradedRaid
<kirkland> mathiaz: kees sponsored the patches to mdadm and initramfs-tools
<kirkland> mathiaz: there's a bit more to be done, to the installer and grub
<kirkland> mathiaz: but I have to shift my focus away from RAID at the moment
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll write you a blog entry for testing it this week, though
<mathiaz> kirkland: great !
<kirkland> mathiaz: testing went well enough for kees to sponsor the patches ;-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - I'd mention in the post that we're looking for tests on real hardware
<mathiaz> kirkland: as most of your testing instructions have to do with kvm
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, perhaps
<kirkland> mathiaz: if it works in kvm, i'm pretty confident about real hw
<kirkland> mathiaz: but i'll mention real hw, with some caveats
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - but real hw is the real-life use case
<mathiaz> kirkland: anyway - it's just a suggestion for your post.
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, but testers have to be willing to lose all data
<kirkland> mathiaz: stacked encryption and lvm would be something i'd like other people to help test
<kirkland> mathiaz: and open *new* bugs
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to write a blog post about testing booting from a degraded raid array
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to write a blog post about testing booting from a degraded raid array
<kirkland> mathiaz: I don't really have time to write up complete, detailed instructions on that
<mathiaz> kirkland: isn't there such a test case in the iso testing pages (stacked encryption) ?
<nijaba> kirkland: If you do so, why not think of it as addition that could be put in the server guide?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, there are LVM and Encryption instructions in the ISO testing
<kirkland> mathiaz: those need to be augmented to talk about stacking on top of RAID
<kirkland> nijaba: it would be good info for the server guide
<kirkland> nijaba: i'm a bit over-taxed at the moment, though
<mathiaz> kirkland: so encrypted over lvm over raid arrays ?
<sommer> kirkland, nijaba  degraded raid, etc is on my list :)
<sommer> for documenting that is
<nijaba> sommer: so I think kirkland's testing instruction might be a good starting point
<kirkland> sommer: great, thanks
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes
<sommer> nijaba: definitely... I should be able to help test this week
 * nijaba hugs sommer
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - and up to now, this setup is not supported in the installer
<mathiaz> kirkland: or a least with a simple recipe
<mathiaz> kirkland: you have to setup everything by hand IIRC
<kirkland> mathiaz: right
<kirkland> mathiaz: i figured it out, eventually
<kirkland> mathiaz: but some comprehensive documentation, with screenshots, would be a brilliant addition to the server guide
 * mathiaz nods
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<kirkland> (assuming we test it and it works!!!)
<jdstrand> kirkland: (sorry for the late response) I'd ahve to agree with mathiaz about testing on real hardware. people have testing environments just like we use kvm, so I think you'll get some takers-- especially ones that care about this (they would likely test on real hardware anyway before deploying)
<mathiaz> sommer: are you tracking somewhere the section you'd like to add to the guide ?
<mathiaz> sommer: (eg the raid install we've just talked about)
<sommer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidServerGuide
<sommer> mathiaz: I think that's it... the wiki is being slow for me
<sommer> yep that's the link
<sommer> the "Confirmed" section has the list
<mathiaz> sommer: great
<mathiaz> sommer: could you mark the section that need to be reviewed ?
<sommer> mathiaz: sure will do
<mathiaz> sommer: so that they can be easily identified as a task for new contributors
<mathiaz> sommer: I've also updated the instructions to update the server guide
<mathiaz> sommer: and how to check out the bzr branch
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#head-0ae127e06ffba31c94b458fbef6eb033e5d8461e
<sommer> mathiaz: looks good, I've just started using bzr as more than a svn clone :)
<mathiaz> we should try to get reviews to be sent via bzr branches
<sommer> mathiaz: works for me... I also heard back from mdke, and he was going to try and update doc.u.c
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else new in the server guide for intrepid ?
<mathiaz> sommer: great
<sommer> mathiaz: I've updated the Likewise-open section based on the discussions at UDS
<sommer> mathiaz: other than that, the LDAP section has been updated somewhat
<sommer> I'll mark those as needed review on the intrepidserverguide page
<mathiaz> sommer: excellent !
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate new installs and upgrades of client and server packages to use SSL v3 or TLS
<ivoks> that's done :)
<zul> ivoks: so there is no need to change dovecot and apache?
<ivoks> zul: no
<mathiaz> ivoks: yop - with an openssl upload
<zul> ivoks: sweet thats two off my todo list
<mathiaz> that disable sslv2
<ivoks> zul: none of our libraries knows wtf is sslv2 anymore :D
<zul> heh
<mathiaz> that's all I have from last week meeting
<mathiaz> is there anything else related to last week items ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'd like to thank the community for a strong response on the call for help with the init script status actions
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Add 'status' action to server init scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Add 'status' action to server init scripts
<kirkland> mathiaz: you can see a ton of progress since last week on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InitScriptStatusActions#head-75448d0a482c28a007476b3be2394d9db3213662
<james_w> kirkland: hi, I have a question about this one.
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - the response has been great
<mathiaz> kirkland: thanks to your blog post IMO
<macd> mathiaz, NeilW still needs some reviews on his passenger package on REVU.
<kirkland> mathiaz: lots of patches still awaiting sponsorship, thanks to zul for sponsoring a goodly bucket of them
<macd> mathiaz, I think thats all that was left from last weeks points
<kirkland> james_w: what's up?
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll dive into the bugs filed today and sponsor them
<kirkland> mathiaz: thanks
<mathiaz> macd: right - I haven't read neilw reply to my email - it's in my inbox though
<macd> mathiaz, and hes here as well
<james_w> I got pulled up on to debian-devel a couple of weeks ago when filing patches in Debian becuase I wasn't following Debian norms for this sort of thing.
 * NeilW waves timidly.
<kirkland> james_w: how so?
<mathiaz> macd: ok - I'll add a point about rails to the agenda
<macd> mathiaz, thx
<james_w> I saw that you have forwarded a whole bunch of these patches to Debian, which is great, thank you, but I wondered if you were not following Debian conventions.
<kirkland> james_w: how so?
<kirkland> james_w: i'm not aware of conventions that I've violated....
<kirkland> james_w: I haven't seen any response whatsoever from Debian on the individual init script patches I've submitted
<james_w> firstly, when filing a bunch of bugs on one subject you are requested to notify debian-devel of the fact.
<kirkland> james_w: the initial functional addition of status_of_proc() was accepted into the lsb-base package, after a few revisions
<kirkland> james_w: hmm, I've only filed 2 Debian bugs of this type, and one other person filed 1
<james_w> secondly, slangasek pointed out in one of the bugs (not in response to your patch) that Debian might like to look at this as a whole, rather than individual packages acting unilaterally.
<kirkland> james_w: that would be great!
<james_w> kirkland: I don't wish to criticise you. I'm bringing this up mainly as I got stung with this recently, and I thought that you may not be aware of these conventions.
<kirkland> james_w: there is a Debian policy bug against this that is many years old, actually
<james_w> kirkland: I didn't know that.
<kirkland> james_w: okay, thanks, i'll ping you offline about the best way to push this en masse to Debian
<kirkland> james_w: let me get you a bug #....
<mathiaz> james_w: thanks for the warning
<kirkland> james_w: 2 of them... one from 2003: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208010
<ubottu> Debian bug 208010 in debian-policy "change =A710.4 "set -e OR check return status" to=" [Wishlist,Open]
<james_w> that works for me, I didn't want you to get flamed for trying to do the right thing. I think it's one area in our relationship with Debian that may be a bit neglected.
<kirkland> james_w: and this one from 2005: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=291148
<ubottu> Debian bug 291148 in debian-policy "change =A710.4 "set -e OR check return status" to=" [Unknown,Open]
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Call for WP testers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Call for WP testers
<kirkland> james_w: I have replied to the later, to no response in 1.5 months
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^ ?
<ivoks> wp?
<nijaba> I have a few white papers that are coming out
<nijaba> There are on different subjects, such as automated deployment
<nijaba> or clustering mysql
<nijaba> before we go on publishing them, I'd love for some volunteers to proofread/test them
<mathiaz> nijaba: where/how will you publish the wp ?
<ivoks> nijaba: me :)
<nijaba> they'll be published on the ubuntu web site as pdf once they are ready
 * sommer volunteers
<nijaba> as they target corporate customer
<nijaba> whome have a hight tendancy not to trust wikis
<zul> do they need real hardware or can they use a vm for testing it
<ivoks> nijaba: i'd like mysql clustering and redhat cluster suite, if available :)
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok
 * nijaba blames his keyboard for typos
<nijaba> ivoks: RHCS: still in the works, but I'll write you down for mysql
<mathiaz> nijaba: for the testing phase, is there a list of available wp ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: how should potential testers notify their interest in doing a review ?
<ivoks> nijaba: if you need help with rhcs, ping me...
<nijaba> mathiaz: atm, I have 2, 3 mores are coming, I'll inform the commuity when they are ready
<nijaba> ivoks: I will point ShangWu to you then ;)
<nijaba> ivoks: he is the one doing all the work
<ivoks> nijaba: we already established a contact :D
<nijaba> ivoks: great :)
<mathiaz> nijaba: so as of now, what do you expect ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: should people send you an email in they're interested ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: for the mysql cluster and redhat cluster wp
<nijaba> mathiaz: volunteers to test automated deployments and mysql clustering WP
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - they should send you an email ?
<nijaba> yes, email would be perfect
<mathiaz> nijaba: great
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey, Intel interested to partner
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey, Intel interested to partner
<mathiaz> nijaba: ^^ ?
<nijaba> soren, as we are still waiting for IS to provide a host for the survey
<nijaba> more people are getting aware that we are gearing up for it
<nijaba> Intel contacted me last week, asking if they could join in
<mathiaz> nijaba: in which format would this work out ?
<nijaba> as we already agreed for RedMonk as an analyst firm, I told them I would haveto ask for your opinion first
<mathiaz> nijaba: RedMonk - didn't know about it ;)
<nijaba> mathiaz: I think they want to add a hardware related question
<nijaba> mathiaz: we did not know the name of them, but that's whom the analyst firm we talked about is
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok - so Intel would join in
<nijaba> mathiaz: I do not know, what do other think?  does it make sense?
<mathiaz> nijaba: we'd add a question about hardware, and they would ... ?
<ivoks> it does make sense
<nijaba> they would blog about it, allow us to use their logo... whatever we me reasonably think of...
<nijaba> s/me/may
<mathiaz> nijaba: as long as they can help us getting more exposure and getting people to take the survey, I'm ok with it
 * nijaba blames his keyboard even more
<macd> SOunds like very good exposure
<nijaba> any objections?
<ivoks> no objections, just be careful ;)
<sommer> sounds like a good idea to me
<mathiaz> nijaba: nope - the more exposure we have, the better :D
<nijaba> ivoks: I know, I worked for them ;)
<ivoks> nijaba: there are people runing ubuntu-server on other chips too, so no one wants to create impression that ubuntu is great with intel, but not so great with others :)
<nijaba> ivoks: sure, I'll make sure their question is "vendor neutral"
<mathiaz> nijaba: could you come up with the question you wanna add to the survey and ask for review here ?
<nijaba> and if amd wants to join, they are welcome ;)
<nijaba> mathiaz: I will, for sure
<ivoks> nijaba: or sun :)
<nijaba> ivoks: right
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write up a question related to hw and submit it for review to the rest of the server team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to write up a question related to hw and submit it for review to the rest of the server team
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] RAILS integration
<MootBot> New Topic:  RAILS integration
<mathiaz> macd: ? what's the status
<macd> mathiaz,  waiting on passenger to get in
<mathiaz> macd: IIRC there was some more discussion about the issue on rubygems in after last week meeting
<macd> NeilW rolled a new package that contains the fixes we talked about last week
<mathiaz> macd: NeilW: I'll review the passenger package
<macd> mathiaz, I was around for most of that, NeilW can be more elaborate on what the exact issue is
<NeilW> There are a number of things that Ubuntu needs to do to get Rails working.
<NeilW> At the moment pratically everybody ignores the apt packages and just installs everything via RubyGems.
<NeilW> That's for a few reasons;
<NeilW> Firstly, the current Rubygems package doesn't place gem installed binaries on the path.
<NeilW> So the likes of Capistrano just doesn't work.
<macd> Most people use Cap to deploy/configure their apps
<NeilW> Secondly the apt packages in place don't integrate with the rubygems database.
<macd> So its a pretty important point
<NeilW> So gem will pull in a second copy of Rails on top of the apt package
<NeilW> and chaos ensues.
<persia> Could apt-installed packages put something in the gems DB in the postinst?
<NeilW> persia: That's how to fix it - but the packages we're getting from Debian don't do that.
<NeilW> You don't even need postinst. You just install a marker file in a particular place.
<NeilW> Gem will then see it as installed.
<NeilW> Finally there is no real decision on how Ubuntu/Debian is going to handle the Ruby1.8 to Ruby1.9 transition.
<NeilW> Gem is integral to Ruby1.9, but has been removed from the ruby package.
<NeilW> and a new gem package created that handles both versions.
<NeilW> unfortunately gem1.8 and gem1.9 don't really know about each other and they will clash if you try and point their binaries at the same place.
 * ivoks waves... it's 35C in this room
 * nijaba takes a slice of a well roasted ivoks ;)
<mathiaz> NeilW: are you discussing this issue with the debian maintainers ?
<mathiaz> NeilW: if so where ?
<NeilW> I've discussed the point with Lucas who I think is trying to move Debian away from their current stance on Rubygems.
<mathiaz> NeilW: we try to follow debian whenever we can
<mathiaz> NeilW: great.
<NeilW> Yes I know.
<mathiaz> NeilW: however if things are totally broken we're ready to make changes
<NeilW> I think you may have to take the lead in this case. My feeling is that there is an impasse.
<mathiaz> NeilW: it may worth trying to describe what would be the proper way of doing things from a end user perspective
<macd> Is there a point where we decide to no longer merge/sync a package from upstream and decide to maintain it totally at this level?
<mathiaz> macd: well it depends on the situation and if we have the man power to do it
<mathiaz> macd: gnome is such an example
<NeilW> apt-get install rails-server
<NeilW> It's my dream.
<mathiaz> macd: but we have a gnome maintainer in the ubuntu project
<mathiaz> NeilW: right - if you could start a wiki page to outline what it would be like
<macd> I think we can stick that on the rails spec page?
<NeilW> I thought we already had one? The Rails spec.
<mathiaz> NeilW: especially the interaction between rubygems and the installed package
<mathiaz> macd: NeilW: yes - you can use the rails spec.
<macd> We have what changes need to happen, bugs filed against them, some packages rebuit to fix it
<macd> not sure what else needs to happen here
<mathiaz> macd: ok - so may *I* should go back to the Rails spec and have a look at it
<mathiaz> macd: *may be* I
<macd> I gotcha ;P
<mathiaz> macd: I'll have a look at the spec page
<NeilW> mathiaz: What would you do with such a description. How does the descision process work?
<mathiaz> NeilW: I'll reply to your email
<NeilW> ok?
<mathiaz> NeilW: we should probably move the discussion to a public mailing list to get more input on that
<mathiaz> NeilW: it would help me to grasp the problem - may be it's already there and I just haven't read the wiki page lately
<mathiaz> NeilW: I'll reply to your email and we'll take it from there.
<macd> can you CC server ML?
<mathiaz> macd: will do
<macd> and we can get it all on there
<NeilW> Thanks
<mathiaz> @schedule
<ubottu> mathiaz: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 Jul 14:00: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<macd> looks like were clear for almost a year ;)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
<sommer> sure
<nijaba> If anyone is in san francisco next week, come and say hi at our linuxworld booth!
<mathiaz> all right then
<nijaba> and please accept my apologies for next week meeting, as I'll be stuck there I beleive
<mathiaz> see ya all next week, same time, same place
<mathiaz> thanks all for coming
<sommer> nijaba: heh sounds awful :)
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:11.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz
<nijaba> thanks fr hosting mathiaz
<sommer> later all
<technolalia> hi all
<lukehasnoname> @schedule
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 Jul 14:00: Mentoring Reception | 31 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-30
<pedro_> hey hey hey!
<heno> hey!
 * nand waves
<davmor2> hello pedro_:)
<ara_> hello!
 * stgraber waves
<pedro_> hey davmor2 :-)
<sbeattie> Hey all!
<heno> welcome back pedro!
 * bdmurray waves
<greg-g> good morning
<pedro_> heey heno, thanks ;-)
<heno> #startmeeting
<Moot2> Meeting started at 12:04. The chair is heno.
<Moot2> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<cody-somerville> \o/
<cody-somerville> I'm here!
<heno> hey cody-somerville
<ogasawara> hi everyone :)
<heno> [TOPIC]: Bug Importance Guidelines
<Moot2> New Topic: : Bug Importance Guidelines
<heno> this was suggested by Brian on the mailing list but as stalled there
<davmor2> schwuk: evening :)
<LaserJock> so briefly
<heno> we should poll the views of the team here and then check in with devs and release team again
<LaserJock> the question is whether Importance should be per-package or per-distro
<LaserJock> ?
<heno> right
<bdmurray> Basically yeah
<LaserJock> Debian is per-package, correct?
<heno> and they have the concept of RC bugs in addition
<LaserJock> I'm basically for per-package Importance
<davmor2> Per-package gets my vote there are some package that cross a number of distro's.
<LaserJock> I know it might mean we need to redo some things
<LaserJock> but for sure from a Universe perspective per-package is better
<bdmurray> We have milestones and release targetting for setting distribution importance
<heno> the release team uses importance as one flag denoting an RC bug in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> basically anything in Universe is going to have a lower priority, by definition, than something in Main
<LaserJock> which doesn't help developers trying to have useful bug lists
<stgraber> I'd also +1 per-package as it's how I want to handle priority of the package(s) I maintain (sort of), that's fine as long as we have a way of clearly getting a list of RC bugs
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting
<bdmurray> LaserJock: you mean currently right?
<LaserJock> bdmurray: right
<LaserJock> in general people are looking at how important a bug is relative to the other bugs in the package
<LaserJock> and we do have milestones as bdmurray said
<LaserJock> bdmurray: would it be reasonable to define milestone targeting as RC?
<heno> no because some people use milestones to plan their work
<stgraber> btw, who can milestone bugs at the moment ? (I'm not sure how ACLs are handled now on LP)
<bdmurray> stgraber: ubuntu-bugcontrol
<heno> independent of the RC function
<LaserJock> heno: hmm, that is a point
<LaserJock> devel release targeting might be a better choice
<LaserJock> or maybe Launchpad can give an RC flag to drivers or something
<LaserJock> in any case, is anybody opposed to having per-package Importance?
<heno> actually a combination of milestone and release targeting is the official way to denote an RC bug
<heno> if it's medium priority or less, it's just a target of opportunity
<LaserJock> as far as I can tell the only -1 on the mailing list thread was from mpt
<LaserJock> because of Launchpad perhaps using the Importance for some bug metric
<heno> I don't think that should conflict with aligning importance with the package though in real world situations
<heno> real RC (high and critical bugs) are likely also high+ for that package
<LaserJock> so an RC bug is defined as one that is Medium or above priority + targeted to devel release + milestoned ?
<LaserJock> heno: exactly
<heno> we can probably contrive situations where that is not the case, but ...
<cody-somerville> It is high or above
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<heno> we could state explicitly that the release management use of importance takes precedence
<cody-somerville> What if we had a ubuntu project?
<heno> for the 5-per release corner cases
<LaserJock> heno: sure
<mpt> cody-somerville, what do you mean by an ubuntu project?
<sbeattie> cody-somerville: you mean an ubuntu-release project, that the release manager(s) use to set priorrity there?
<cody-somerville> sbeattie, Yes.
<mpt> heh, that would be such a hack
<heno> I'd rather we didn't try to redefine the way RC bugs are managed here, as that was already a long discussion and has now been settled
<bdmurray> the importance for the release would be set on the release task
<mpt> So maybe Launchpad should be able to track a bug's importance to a distribution release separately from its importance to the package
<cody-somerville> There could be a Ubuntu project/product on launchpad and we can affect it for bugs that are of interest distro-wide. It makes sense to me because I see packages as individual and isolated where a "product" would represent the product Ubuntu as a whole.
<ara_> and the link between ubuntu and ubuntu-release would be automatic?
<LaserJock> mpt: I think we're kinda already doing that with milestones and release targeting
<cody-somerville> mpt, mmm... yea, that would be better than a separate product
<ScottK> I think what Launchpad's future functionality may or may not be is not really on topic for a discussion of what Ubuntu policy should be currently.
<mpt> true
<heno> right
<LaserJock> so, is there any opposition to the proposed change (Importance is defined on a per-package basis)?
<heno> I think we should take a position on this and then ask the release team if that causes problems for them
<LaserJock> heno: +1
<heno> +1 from me
<ScottK> My main concern with the change is that if we change we suddenly have all the bugs triaged wrong.
<ScottK> Is there a plan to deal with that?
<LaserJock> well, there is a point there
<cody-somerville> ScottK, We were wondering about using a separate project/product in launchpad to track bugs that are of interest to the distro (ie. "release critical") interest of trying to contrive that from the fields that are/should be representative of the package
<LaserJock> I would tend to think that it would just transition over
<heno> how many are really that wrong though?
<bdmurray> I think it'll be handled the same way as all the Confirmed bugs when Triaged came out
<ScottK> heno: For example, in Universe there are essentially no High/Critical bugs because almost by definition, if it's not in Main it can't be high.
<LaserJock> my guess is that a lot of Universe or less "important" package will be able to bump up their Importance
<LaserJock> but nothing should really go down in Importance
<sbeattie> cody-somerville: I think what bdmurray's pointing out is that the the release manager could set the priority for the release, if it's different from the package's priority by setting the priority on the target-release task itself.
<ScottK> bdmurray: I don't think that's giving me confidence.
<bdmurray> I think it will be less of an issue with packages with few bug reports
<heno> it think it's a bigger problem that so many bugs are without importance at all
<bdmurray> It becomes more useful where you have packages with 75+ medium bugs
<heno> and in New
<ScottK> I think there should be a clear plan before the policy change.
 * ScottK will be AFK for ~5 minutes.
<LaserJock> ScottK: can the plan be we have no plan? ;-)
<LaserJock> I don't think there's a way to comprehensively just re-prioritize all bugs
<greg-g> or when the bug is looked at again the importance can be changed?  for smaller packages it shouldn't matter TOO much to wait a bit.  For the big projects those independent maintainers already have an idea and could do it relatively quickly
<LaserJock> yeah
 * cody-somerville wonders if maybe we should poke the actual release team to see if they can get in on this discussion because it is moot if the solution we come up with if it doesn't work for them.
<LaserJock> I would just say "next time you touch the importance, re-evaluate it in view of the new policy"
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: I don't think we're changing anything for them really, are we?
<geser> I don't believe that a bug in a random package in universe will get fixed quickier because it's now High instead of just Medium or Low
<davmor2> Can you not just add an RC tag that set a release critical bug flag?  An the importance be set in the general manner?
<greg-g> LaserJock: ++
<bdmurray> cody-somerville: I've spoken to slangasek and he was fine with it
<heno> I agree with bdmurray that the place where this is an issue is the packages with lots of bugs that have been prevented from using Critical because of the current policy
<LaserJock> davmor2: tags are open ACLs, *everything* would be RC ;-)
<LaserJock> geser: no, but moving on in the future it might
<heno> a bug in Medium that should really be in High now is not so pressing IMO
<davmor2> LaserJock: Limit who can access the RC flag
<cody-somerville> heno +1
 * cody-somerville doesn't really pay attention much to bug important anyhow.
<LaserJock> davmor2: that would be a big Launchpad change, and perhaps not one they want to make
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: that's the problem, IMO
<LaserJock> it would be good if Importance was properly defined and used so that it does mean something to people and they pay attention to it
<LaserJock> currently I don't think we have that
<cody-somerville> I don't see the importance field becoming overly important in most developer's workflow.
<LaserJock> it should
<heno> and consistency has intrinsic value in itself
<LaserJock> and it's also feedback to users/reporters
<geser> if I stumble about a bug I know how to fix I usually don't care about the importance
<heno> ScottK: do you have any objection other that the transition period issue
 * ScottK just got back.  Let me read the scrollback.
<heno> (there will always be that with any change of tool, policy or procedure)
<cody-somerville> I think we need new values for the importance field
<greg-g> the consistency is a Good Thing(tm) and also, being able to do meaningful reports per package would also be useful. (to respond to the issue of importance not being imortant)
<ScottK> That makes policy change pre-depend on LP change cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Sorta Important, Important, and Omgz Important would mean more to me.
<LaserJock> can somebody write up a greasemonkey script for cody-somerville ? ;-)
<cody-somerville> <g>
 * cody-somerville would so use it if someone did. :P
<geser> cody-somerville: Sorta Important = Low, Important = Medium, Omgz Important = High? :)
<davmor2> cody-somerville: should of done it yesterday = critical
<ScottK> heno: I guess I throw my hands up and say whatever.  I see the advantage of the policy change and so that's fine.  I think about the pain with the current LP speed/UI of actually doing it and I think it's not going to be me spending time on it.
<heno> ok
<ScottK> I'd have mapped Low to Not Important.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, same here
<heno> let's hope the new LP APIs make all this much easier ;)
<LaserJock> isn't wishlist Not Important ?
<ScottK> heno: I just think when it's decided (and I think we ought to have more developer input that we have here) it needs to be clearly communicated.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Wishlist is NotABug, but we don't want to say so.
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, Wishlist -> Illegitimate :P
<heno> right. so we've settled on +1 as a QA team recommendation
<cody-somerville> +1
<LaserJock> cody-somerville: those are Invalid
<cody-somerville> LaserJock, Illegal Alien then
<LaserJock> moving on ...
 * ScottK votes 0 - I see the advantage, but I boggle at the inhereited backlog.
<heno> it's been suggested to the u-devel ML though, so there as been opportunity to weigh in
<ScottK> For some better spelling of inherited
<ScottK> heno: I don't think silence is concurrence is a good model for deciding policy changes.
<sbeattie> ScottK: do you have suggestion  on how to deal with the backlog?
<heno> bdmurray: will you work with me on a proper announcement?
<ScottK> heno: I object to deciding this based on silence is concurrence.
 * ScottK revises his vote to -1.
<LaserJock> heno: I think sounds good to email to -devel a  "QA team is recommending we set Importance on a per-package basis, feedback on is welcome"
<ScottK> I'm OK with that.
<heno> ScottK: how else should we decide? should everything be taken to the TB?
<cody-somerville> Isn't silence abstaining?
<geser> ScottK: true, but sometimes the only way to get moving forward :(
<heno> LaserJock: sounds good
<ScottK> sbeattie: There isn't a good answer for it.  It's just lots of work.  If we were starting from bug #2, I'd say do it this way.  I'm not certain it's worth the effort now.
<davmor2> +1
<LaserJock> ok, let's move on then, please :-)
<heno> ok we are agreed :)
<ScottK> heno: No, but "Hey let's talk about this" is different than "We intend to do this unless someone objects".
<heno> [TOPIC]: ISO test bug report template
<MootBot> New Topic: : ISO test bug report template
<davmor2> Ah this is me :)
<davmor2> So when working with cgreagan on UME he had a very structured way to do bug reports.
<davmor2> This was great for UME not so good for ISO's/QA a little too inflexible.
<davmor2> So I started work today on my own version for Specifically ISO's
<davmor2> it looks like this now after conferring with a few people
<davmor2> RELEASE:
<davmor2> CD/DVD VARIANT:
<davmor2> ISO DATE:
<davmor2> SYMPTOMS:
<davmor2> CAUSE:
<davmor2> STEPS TO REPRODUCE:
<heno> davmor2: just to be clear: your recommendation is for ISO testing sourced bugs only - not bugs generally
<LaserJock> hmm, should TEST CASE: be in there?
<heno> the topic in the wiki is a bit unclear
<bdmurray> steps to reproduce could be test case
<heno> actually, it's not - might have been your email
<LaserJock> bdmurray: no, I mean, which iso test case they found the bug in
<sbeattie> davmor2: perhaps s/ISO DATE/ISO BUILD/ since there are often mutliple builds on a given day as release deadlines approach?
<LaserJock> like Install (expert) or whatever
<heno> yep, let's standardise on 'TEST CASE' as we already use that
<LaserJock> the stuff that's in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/*
<davmor2> Step's to reproduce is just the way for dev's to know what I was doing when the bug occured.
<LaserJock> additionally, would it be feasible to file the bugs via the ISO tracker?
<davmor2> example https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/253367
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253367 in ubuntu "Intrepid: Ubuntu screen saver kicks in then switches off again" [Undecided,New]
<LaserJock> we have somewhat of an overloaded definition of "test case" here
<LaserJock> Test Case = what specific test where you doing on the iso when you encountered the bug
<davmor2> It makes the bug far more readable for Dev's it also means that you don't forget to add important info like version's etc.
<LaserJock> Test Case = what steps are needed to test or reproduce the bug
<sbeattie> davmor2: I think generally we're all in agreement that this is a good idea.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> also, not sure if CAUSE: is going to be generally filled in
<sbeattie> and just a matter of getting some of the details right.
<heno> are there cases where 'steps to reproduce' would not serve as a test case?
<LaserJock> heno: how do you mean
<davmor2> I think that TEST CASES is something that should stay in the qa realms.  That step to reproduce is more general and intuitive for dev's and bug triagers
<LaserJock> ok, maybe I'm not clear here
<heno> if you follow these steps and you reproduce it's still there, if it doesn't occur then it's fixed
<heno> that's basically a test case
<LaserJock> a piece of data in the bug that is needed is what part of the build you were testing
<stgraber> heno: as far as I understand, LaserJock asked if we should include the ISO tracker testcase in the bug report, something like "Install (entire-disk)"
<LaserJock> this in the ISO tracker is called a test case
<LaserJock> stgraber: right
<heno> oic
<ara_> heno, i think that is too inflexible for a test case definition
<stgraber> the problem here is that "testcase" has at least two different meaning for us :)
<heno> right, so we are over loading it
<LaserJock> exactly
<heno> ara_: heh :) can you help us with a more general definition?
<davmor2> As I said I think Steps to reproduce is more intuitive in a readable format.
<davmor2> as in you know what it means :)
<LaserJock> right
<heno> that's a good point, davmor2
<LaserJock> but we are using the term "test case" elsewhere, like with SRUs
<LaserJock> so I just wanted us to be aware of that
<LaserJock> perhaps we need a QA Glossary :-)
<heno> anyway, we are bikesheding a bit here
<davmor2> LaserJock: Yes and at that point we know what it means.  However dev's, bug triagers etc don't need to know that's what we are working from they just need to know how we came about the bug :)
<LaserJock> davmor2: can you put up the Template on a wiki page where we can discuss, tweak?
<sbeattie> agreed. Perhaps we can just agree to include the link to the iso test case in the steps to reproduce.
<ara_> sbeattie: that makes sense
<heno> that works
<davmor2> sbeattie: I'm also using the template for smoke tests too
<LaserJock> davmor2: I disagree
<heno> davmor2: will you set up a template in the wiki to start with?
<davmor2> Yes no probs :)
<heno> let's move on
<davmor2> Be latter on though I got LUG meeting to go too any second :)
<heno> [TOPIC]: Bugs in backport packages. Which should the policy with those be? It is clearly written that those packages are unsupported
<MootBot> New Topic: : Bugs in backport packages. Which should the policy with those be? It is clearly written that those packages are unsupported
<sbeattie> davmor2: BTW, the latest dl-ubuntu-test-iso, when passed the --versions arg, will report all the build versions of the isos unser ~/iso/
<sbeattie> s/unser/under/
<ara_> I asked in the distro channel, about the policy with this
<LaserJock> ara_: which channel?
<ara_> canonical internal
<LaserJock> k
<stgraber> sbeattie: btw, the next revision of the ISO tracker will have a /list URL (IIRC) that'll give you the list of all images we currently have on the ISO tracker and the md5 for these
<ara_> and the usual thing to do would be:
<ara_> This also affects project -> select hardy-backports as project
<ara_> then, if the bug also happens to be in intrepid, leave the ubuntu one open
<ara_> if not, close the ubuntu bug
<LaserJock> that seems reasonable
<heno> then there is no longer a bug open on a real package
<heno> though that may not be a problem
<ara_> yep, if it only happens in the backport package and not the new release, then it is not maintained
<LaserJock> if it only affects specifically the -backports package then I'm not sure what else you'd do
<LaserJock> ara_: what do you mean by "maintained"
<ara_> supported
 * LaserJock is on a glossary hunt today
<LaserJock> uh oh
<LaserJock> ara_: what do you mean  by "supported" ? :-)
<ara_> :)
<LaserJock> these aren't trivial questions though
<LaserJock> -backports is supported
<LaserJock> just not by Canonical
<davmor2> Right I need to get off talk to you tomorrow
<LaserJock> and it is maintained, just not by Canonical specifically
<stgraber> davmor2: see you
<heno> is it supported by Ubuntu though? as in do we make security fixes to things in -backports?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> if somebody wants to do it
<LaserJock> the backports team are all Ubuntu developers
<heno> if nobody within the project has taken on that responsibility then it's not supported currently
<LaserJock> usually official Ubuntu archives
<LaserJock> so I'm not sure how it would be not supported
<LaserJock> unless perhaps the backports team specifically said they weren't going to
<ara_> but when you select in the Software Sources (system menu) the hardy-backports checkbox it is stated "Unsupported updates"
<heno> if the backports team explicitly commits to that then perhaps. it's probably still a question for the TB though
<LaserJock> heno: perhaps rather a question for the backports team
<heno> yep
<LaserJock> I don't know that it's an issue for the TB
<LaserJock> maybe, but I suspect not
<LaserJock> in any case, it's not clear what "supported" means in these contexts
<LaserJock> but I'm quite sure that the backporters want to know if there are bugs in their packages
<LaserJock> we had an issue with flash for instance, not long ago
<heno> I think it would be for Ubuntu as a project to say 'we support packages in backports' - ie. we as a project delegate that responsibility to the backports team
<LaserJock> and it was fairly clear from that discussion that the backports do try to make sure their packages are bug-free as possible
<LaserJock> heno: I believe we already do say that
<heno> ok, but from a practical perspective, it seems that ara's suggestion works
<LaserJock> i.e. it's in our archives, and it's done by our developers, it's ours to support
<heno> closing the package task with the backports task open seems fine to me
<LaserJock> but, I must admit that the whole "supported" thing is still unclear to me
<LaserJock> heno: totally agreed
<heno> LaserJock: good point
<LaserJock> we want to know if it's going to be a bug in Intrepid
<heno> anyone object?
<LaserJock> so it's valuable having that information
<LaserJock> but if it's not, then the backporting team needs to take care of it
<heno> let's move on
<heno> [TOPIC]: QA Liaison to Launchpad
<MootBot> New Topic: : QA Liaison to Launchpad
<LaserJock> ok, well in interest of time perhaps I'll just give a link to the wiki page I wrote up
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/QALiaison
<heno> I have to admit I've failed to get a suggestions list up before this meeting
<LaserJock> and perhaps we can move the discussion to the mailing list this week
<heno> (of LP feature requests)
<LaserJock> hopefully the wiki page is fairly clear
<heno> sounds good. we are running a bit long here
<jonpackard> I'd like to make a small suggestion: I think it would be of great benefit to have brief information about the QA Team on the related teams' wiki pages. Mostly just about how the teams are related to the QA Team. I was a member of BugSquad and had never heard of the QA Team until I read about it on Distrowatch.com (it kind of gave the team a bad rap in some ways).
<LaserJock> jonpackard: yeah, I think we can troll around the wiki for some better inter-team linking
<heno> the header is a good start
<LaserJock> jonpackard: perhaps you might want to add an item to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap ;-)
<heno> we should deploy that consistently
<LaserJock> jonpackard did great work on that this week
<LaserJock> and also cleaning up our meeting logs
<heno> rock jonpackard!
<LaserJock> my inbox was full of wiki edits ;-)
<jonpackard> thanks :-[
<heno> thanks for stepping up to do that
<heno> the QA portal should help too
<jonpackard> ï»¿heno: you're very welcome
<heno> the new face of qa.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> heno: ok, last item real quick?
<heno> [TOPIC]: FAUMachine for installation testing (LaserJock)
<MootBot> New Topic: : FAUMachine for installation testing (LaserJock)
<stgraber> heno: this one got back to the "need better spec" status after discussing a bit with LaserJock the other day :)
<heno> stgraber: ok :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: I've also been talking with ubuntuwire.com people
<heno> I believe liw looked into faumachine last year
<stgraber> yeah, we had a demo of it at UDS-Boston IIRC
<LaserJock> yeah, so I wanted to just bring it up
<LaserJock> because I was talking with sistpoty (who is a FAUMachine dev and Ubuntu core developer)
<heno> it's neat to be able to poke commands in from the outside, but it means those tests cannot be run on native hw
<LaserJock> and he thought it might be useful
<heno> which can be useful
<heno> with the native tests we can run them in a range of envirnonments
<LaserJock> sure
<heno> from hw to vms
<heno> VMs I should say :)
<LaserJock> I wonder how easy the native hw tests are
<heno> but if sispoty can make a good case for it we will listen of course
<LaserJock> I haven't seen anything on what the hardware cert people are doing
<heno> LaserJock: to write or run?
<LaserJock> both
<LaserJock> run primarily
<heno> ara_: have you looked at faumachines at all?
<LaserJock> what I'm getting at, is what can we give to advanced users/ubuntu devs to test for us
<cr3> LaserJock: that's because it's internal for now, but we're always open to bigger better ways of doing things in concert with the community
<ara_> heno: no, nothing yet
<LaserJock> I'm not necessarily saying we should ditch what's being done now in favor of FAUmachine
<LaserJock> but perhaps it would be a good compliment
<heno> LaserJock: right. I wondering if it not better done with tests scripts in a VM though
<ara_> heno: i will try to give it a try
<LaserJock> heno: pardon my ignorance, but how is that done?
<heno> we should perhaps ask sispoty for a demo of faumachines for this case
<LaserJock> how would I do automated installation testing in a VM?
<heno> ara_: perhaps just have a look
<stgraber> LaserJock: preseeding is a way
<LaserJock> stgraber: ok, right
<LaserJock> can that handle the ISO test cases fairly well?
<heno> there is some info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation
<stgraber> yep, except it doesn't test the UI
<LaserJock> can you preseed the Desktop install for isntance?
<cr3> LaserJock: 1. vmware provides perl scripts to talk to vmware-server for example, see vmware-ubuntu project on launchpad;
<LaserJock> cr3: ok cool
<cr3> LaserJock: 2. the preseeding could either be done by modifying an iso image, supported by vmware-ubuntu, or from some other location
<cr3> LaserJock: that project is just a shell script wrapping some of the coolness readily avialable from the vmware command line
<sbeattie> heno: when we get back to generating vm images, we should consider adding faumachine images to those we generate.
<cr3> sbeattie: where do we draw the line? vmware, qemu, kvm, faumachine, etc.?
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to get us from "cool stuff a QA engineer can run" to "cool stuff an Ubuntu ISO tester can run"
<LaserJock> cr3: ideally all of the above ;-)
<LaserJock> but the disk/bandwidth seems like it'd be unreasonable
<heno> LaserJock: indeed, I would love that too
<stgraber> cr3: you forogot virtualbox :)
<cr3> stgraber: and the list goes on :)
<heno> if faumachines is an easier way to that we should take a serious look
<LaserJock> the vmware-ubuntu thing sounds cool
<LaserJock> in any case, I just thought I'd bring it up
<LaserJock> I can poke sistpoty about it further (I was going to try to get him to come to the meeting but he's offline)
<heno> ok, ara will have a look at faumachines and sispoty is invited to present if for the team as well
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<heno> ok, any other urgent business?#
<cr3> LaserJock: before you get too excited, I wrote that on the corner of the table but it enables me to automatically install new vmware instances from any alternate image for example
<stgraber> Just a quick notice, I have worked on the Drupal module for the Package status, the result can be seen here: http://80.83.51.125/qapkgstatus/openoffice.org
<stgraber> It's just rendering ogasawara's xml files. Comments/suggestions are welcome.
<LaserJock> cr3: something is better than nothing
<heno> stgraber: excellent!
<LaserJock> I'm looking for things we can put effort into
 * heno cheers ogasawara and stgraber
<ara_> stgraber: neat!
<ogasawara> I'll try to tackle some of the feature requests and add them to the xml
<LaserJock> stgraber: is that "live"?
<sbeattie> stgraber: a popup bug info for the oldest bugs a la the way the most duplicates bug is handled might be nice, too,.
<ogasawara> will also want to start generating more xml files for other packages
<ogasawara> sbeattie: I'll add that to the list
<stgraber> LaserJock: sort of, when it'll be on qa.ubuntu.com it'll be. At the moment I just sync the .xml file when ogasawara tells me she changed something.
<LaserJock> stgraber: k
<LaserJock> well that is just a really cool page
<stgraber> ogasawara: would be good so we can use those categories :)
<ogasawara> stgraber: exactly :)
<heno> the xml may be useful for other people too, can we link to that?
<ogasawara> sure, just a sec
<stgraber> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.xml
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/pkg-stats/openoffice.org.xml
<heno> I mean on the web page :)
<LaserJock> ogasawara: oh, that is very interesting
<heno> as in data source: LINK
<stgraber> heno: sure
<stgraber> ogasawara: can you add a link to the original .xml (on people.u.c) and the generation time to the .xml ?
<ogasawara> stgraber: sure
<LaserJock> ogasawara: is the code for that publicly available?
<stgraber> ogasawara: as attribute of <package> should be fine
<ogasawara> LaserJock:  I
<ogasawara> LaserJock: heh, I'll clean up the code and check it into bzr
<ogasawara> stgraber: ok
<LaserJock> ogasawara: very cool, very cool indeed :-)
<heno> ok, we've been going for 1h30 now so let's wrap it up
<heno> cool stuff though!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:34.
<ara_> ok, thanks guys!
<greg-g> wow, long meeting ;)
<heno> thanks everyone, good meeting!
<ara_> cheers!
<sbeattie> thanks, everyone.
<stgraber> thanks
<Riddell> Kubuntu meeting in a couple of minutes in #kubuntu-devel
<cjwatson> good evening
 * cjwatson pokes the bot in the vain hope of it knowing about the platform team meeting
<calc> hello
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<liw> greetingses and salutationses
<james_w> hi all
 * cjwatson moves to cooler surroundings - must get that hot water tank lagged so that it stops spraying heat all over the top of the house
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> sounds... unpleasant.
<james_w> cjwatson: do we need a new batch of meetings scheduled on the fridge?
 * ogra waves
<james_w> hi all
<cjwatson> james_w: yeah, I'll e-mail them again in a bit
<cjwatson> anyway, sorry for the lack of e-mailed agenda this week, but there isn't really anything of great complexity
<james_w> cjwatson: ok, thanks
<bryce> heya
<cjwatson> thank you for holding the meeting last week while I was trying to get my respiratory system back in order
<cjwatson> since there were several absences, I wanted to go over our collective to-do list for intrepid again and cover the gaps
<cjwatson> there were also a few things people didn't mention that I would have asked them about :-)
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: glad to hear the language-selector work is going well; I'm curious as to how the font-selector work is progressing, since I didn't get a chance to talk with you and James about that at the sprint
 * doko will improve his mind reading next time ;)
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: (you and I also missed out on sitting down and sorting out generation of translation statistics, which we need to get to at some point)
<cjwatson> hmm, looks like Arne isn't here
<cjwatson> asac is at the Firefox Summit, so I expect is also absent
<cjwatson> bryce: we talked about xorg-input-hotplug earlier today, although can recap for the record if you like
<cjwatson> bryce: it's low priority, but have you got anywhere with xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace?
<bryce> I discussed xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace with debian, and worked out some ideas on an implementation plan
<bryce> I think it's doable by FF, but like you say it's lower priority so may get bumped to intrepid+1
<cjwatson> what did the Debian X team think?
<bryce> but I'd like to have something proof of concept ish by FF
<bryce> surprisingly they were open to the idea
<bryce> gave some suggestions on how to do the timed delay check thingee, which is the only bit I wasn't sure about
<cjwatson> the required changes seem spread somewhat all over the shop, but it doesn't seem all that large or invasive
<cjwatson> so I'd guess a proof of concept will not be all that far away from production code
<bryce> right
<bryce> regarding xorg-input-hotplug, when timo gets back the plan is to flip it on and start testing.  keyboard will take some extra work, as we discussed this morning
<bryce> the plan there is that I'm going to make a script that translates the console-settings config into an fdi file, which I *think* is going to be quite straightforward.  And then hook it in to run with xorg-server.postinst.
<bryce> so that's definitely going to be done by FF.
<bryce> there is a concern that the keyboard hotplug will introduce too many issues; but the fallback here is to switch to only using input-hotplug for !keyboard.  We can make that decision and change post-FF if/when needed.
<bryce> not a spec, but mdz also spent time with pitti and I at the sprint about apport for xorg-server
<cjwatson> has there been a chance to do any testing on tablets, touchpads, etc.?
<bryce> I plan to have that work done and uploaded by FF as well.
<cjwatson> that's good news, mdz was asking me about that earlier today :)
<bryce> not yet, but people have been slipping me tablets to test with (a total of 4 now)
<ogra> i have some tablets and at least one touchpad (a second one the next days)
<tjaalton> cjwatson: it's been done on F9 already, so apparently it works (the fdi file only tells which driver to load)
<tjaalton> hi btw :)
<bryce> heya tjaalton
<ogra> tjaalton, how do they do the calibration ?
<tjaalton> ogra: how is it done now?
<ogra> usually all touchpads need that ... most tablets as well
<ogra> manually in a painful way ... and then editing the xorg.conf
<tjaalton> ok.. input device properties will be the salvation there
<bryce> x-testing-infrastructure is also on the todo list, although nothing is being uploaded so probably not required for FF.  However I want to get something functional and usable by around FF or within a couple weeks after.
<ogra> for tuchscreens you usually use the well hidden tool evtouch ships
<cjwatson> tjaalton: input device properties landed about three weeks ago in master, I seem to remember - they aren't going to land for intrepid surely?
<ogra> (/usr/lib/xf86-input-evtouch/ev_calibrate)
<tjaalton> cjwatson: probably not, unless it's backported for 1.5. anyway, there is no support for synaptics yet, so it's not that useful now
<cjwatson> ok, thanks bryce
<cjwatson> calc: thanks for the note (and discussion) about OOo 3.0's slight slip
<cjwatson> calc: I was also curious whether you'd made any progress on building a development package sufficient to build the langpacks without rebuilding the whole of OOo, and about how the discussion with the printing folks went
<calc> cjwatson: i am a bit delayed on the langpack work, going to get 3.0b2 into openoffice-pkgs ppa tonight (or early tomorrow) and then will be looking at langpacks
<calc> cjwatson: i managed to actually miss the printing discussion at the sprint due to email delays
<calc> cjwatson: it was sent out about 20m before the dicussion and the email server seemed to eat it for a few hours apparently
<calc> so i still need to talk to Till and find out what i need to be doing there
<calc> wrt the 3.0 delay if it slips much more it is questionable whether it will be a good idea to push it into intrepid
<cjwatson> feel free to expense an international phone call if it will make things easier, obviously
<cjwatson> (for Till)
<calc> 3.0rc1 is currently expected to be released on Aug 20 and 3.0 on Sept 16
<calc> ok, i have cheap voip for calls so its not a big issue for that
<cjwatson> I agree that the delay is getting worrisome
<calc> i somehow doubt they will go from rc1 to release in under 1 month
<cjwatson> it's not quite at the OMG IMPOSSIBLE stage yet
<calc> it was about 6 weeks from rc1 to release for 2.4.0
<calc> which if that happens again it will put the release ~ Sep 30 which is after beta freeze
<cjwatson> a good-quality set of PPA packages would make the decision easier :-)
<calc> yes, i will be uploading those RSN, just need to fixup the launchpad-integration patch
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<calc> so if they don't slip anymore it would ideal since it would put the uploads right before FF and BF
<cjwatson> evand is off-site at a meeting
<cjwatson> james_w: can you give a summary of how font-selector work at the sprint went, since Arne's not here?
<james_w> sure
<james_w> we had a discussion where Arne taught me about font issues, and the sort of thing that he would like to provide a GUI configuration tool for
<james_w> we then looked at fontconfig to see what that could tell us about what it was doing, and we realised the answer was not that much
<james_w> so to do everything Arne wants would require extending fontconfig to expose this information, or re-implementing the configuration files logic
<james_w> however, it seemed like allowing the user to set the font priority for each meta-font was something that could be done with no fontconfig modification, so we're going to try and do that in the Intrepid timeframe. We're not going to have anything worthy of being in main or on the CD for this release though
<slangasek> is the fontconfig mod the better long-term design?
<slangasek> (does it help if I bend Keith's ear sometime?)
<james_w> Arne has a glade file for a UI for this part, we now need to wrap fontconfig so we can get at it from python, and make the UI do something
<james_w> slangasek: I would much prefer that, but I don't think were any where near the stage of specifying what we want. Arne could draw up a list of things that we would like to be able to do though.
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> right, that's pretty clear, thanks
<cjwatson> james_w: 76 failures left is good news - is that across the whole archive, or just main?
<james_w> so, I think we're blocked on me learning pyrex or similar at the moment I think. This is a low prio spec, and low priority for the both of us though isn't it?
<cjwatson> it's medium priority I believe
<cjwatson> but definitely background activity for you compared to udd
<james_w> ok
<james_w> 76 failures on the whole archive.
<ogra> wow
<liw> james_w, congratulations (I'm going to have to invent new ways to torture bzr...)
<cjwatson> when you said encoding, that's mostly commit message encoding rather than file name encoding? (I know there are a few of the latter, but I wouldn't have expected 76)
<james_w> I'm spending a lot of time on making sure we get native->non-native and back transitions correct, as this is something that won't cause failures, but just bad data
<james_w> it's probably in thirds, 25 commit message encoding mistakes, 25 path issues (usually encoding), and 25 other
<cjwatson> do you know where the LP folks are with exposing a namespace for these branches?
<james_w> I need to focus on the client side for a while soon though, as that is impacted by FF.
<james_w> I was told it was definitely post LP 2.0, so any day now :-)
<cjwatson> yes, we are living in the future
<james_w> I haven't spoken to jml in a while, but I doubt that he has any more news for us.
<james_w> I'll make sure to raise it before they start post 2.0 planning
<cjwatson> it was "we won't even plan this until after 2.0" last I checked, was just wondering if there was anything new
<cjwatson> it's already on kiko's 3.0 plan
<cjwatson> number one for codehosting
<james_w> and we're almost at the point of saying "we're ready to start, we're just waiting for the lp changes"
<cjwatson> at least if the mail I have is any guide, which it may not be
<james_w> ah, that's good to know.
<cjwatson> client changes will of course be of benefit to those of us already maintaining packages in bzr
<cjwatson> all right, thanks
<cjwatson> ogra: ISTR there's one last bit of compcache to land
<james_w> yeah, there may be some bumps if you use builddeb as I switch things over, but it's for the better I promise
<ogra> yeah, sorry i didnt get to that yet, i would have loved to have it in before the last alpha, especially since its no biggie
<cjwatson> ogra: can we get it for alpha 4? (if necessary by you dropping what you have over to somebody else, if you're slammed with cmpc)
<ogra> i'll try to get it done this week, the cmpc bugfixing went better than expected yet
<cjwatson> I really want to see the memory requirement changes and figure out how much more we need to do to meet useful goals there
<ogra> alpha 4 is aug. 14th ?
<ogra> that should be easily doable
<cjwatson> a few weekends ago I had a fairly serious go at profiling localedef and making it use much less memory, so if necessary that could be dusted off
<cjwatson> yes
<ogra> its really only one casper script i assume its not even more than 10 lines
<ogra> the big bits are all in intramfs
<ogra> and tehse are done
<cjwatson> right, just needs to happen. ask for help if you need somebody to do testing legwork
<ogra> i will
<ogra> i cant predict anything for my other specs though, the cmpc future is very blurry atm
<cjwatson> they are not high priority from my POV
<ogra> (it was agreed that i dont do the atom image, but now it seems to be in discussion for me again)
<cjwatson> though Benedict is getting to the age where I might start caring about local-content-filter personally at some point ;-)
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> ok, this all sounds reasonably plausible when added to the material from last week, so thanks folks
<ogra> well, he might be able to wait one release wit his step daddy looking over his sholder for another 4 months
<cjwatson> any other business?
<liw> I have a question
<cjwatson> ask away
<calc> opendns is pretty decent
<liw> what's the usual way in Ubuntu development to get people to try out your new, fancy software to eat up people's systems if in case it's buggy? set up a PPA and ask for volunteer victims?
<slangasek> opendns is RFC broken
<slangasek> die die
<slangasek> <ahem>
<bryce> liw, yup
 * ogra claps hands for slangasek 
<heno> liw: ask in the forums ;)
<slangasek> calc: please don't promote the use of systems that break Windows browsing on the local network :-)
<cjwatson> liw: well, there's the forcible approach for the brave, stick it in the archive and arrange that no intrepid users can avoid it
<cjwatson> liw: doesn't work so well for applications though
<cjwatson> liw: "targeted advertisement" is really the only way to do it - I'd suggest ubuntu-devel and possibly the forums
<liw> I'll have to learn about the forums... ok, thanks
<ogra> probably ubuntu-users but with a warning
<cjwatson> definitely arrange for there to be a built package somewhere (a PPA is the most straightforward) - most of the people you want won't build from bzr
<ogra> thats the biggest list we have
<liw> I was actually thinking just #ubuntu-devel to start with, but the mailing list and forums are probably a good second step
<ogra> liw, also blog about it :)
<liw> ogra, I have about two readers, counting myself :)
<ogra> liw, time for planet then :)
<cjwatson> liw: lesson learned from ubiquity: if you think your program is liable to be at all crashy, make sure to give it an apport hook so that you get information you need without having to round-trip
<cjwatson> liw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo
<liw> cjwatson, I'm not expecting it to be crashy, I'm expecting it to remove people kernels, wipe their filesystems, and send their hidden porn collections to their mothers...
<bryce> liw, to get into the planet, there's a bzr repo you pull and add your feed into.  Fairly straightforward.
<liw> but yeah, apport, I'll put that on the list
<cjwatson> liw: you could make it crash rather than actually do anything ;-)
<liw> bryce, there's restrictions on who are allows on planet, though, I think
<ogra> heh
<bryce> liw: fwiw, I find I get more testers if I provide hardy debs
<cjwatson> anyone in ~ubuntumembers can add themselves to planet; there's also precedent for sponsoring others onto planet
<ogra> wow, thats brave for X
<cjwatson> (viz. I did it before and nobody objected)
<liw> I'm not in ~ubuntumembers yet (please don't point at me and laugh at my failings as a sapient being)
<liw> but I can ask others to blog about it, I'm sure :)
<liw> (I think we're done with this topic, I have my answer)
<james_w> I have a quick (canonical) one, when does our holiday year run to?
<cjwatson> the other thing I should note is that there is a public 8.10 status meeting tomorrow at 1600 UTC, all welcome though not required
<cjwatson> james_w: calendar year
<TheMuso> Good, as thats a little late for me. :p
<james_w> cjwatson: thanks, I better plan some trips then
<cjwatson> james_w: the company handbook is good for this kind of thing, https://wiki.canonical.com/PoliciesAndProcedures
<james_w> ah, thanks
<cjwatson> any more for any more?
 * cjwatson bangs the gavel, adjourned, cheers
<bryce> thanks
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<ogra> thanks
 * doko waves, and heads to bed
 * cjwatson goes back to poking bzr fast-import
 * TheMuso heads to get breakfast.
<james_w> bye all
<liw> thanks, and bye
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-07-31
 * e-jat down down down 
<gonzopancho> is there an agenda for today (yet)?
<persia> gonzopancho: For which meeting?
<gonzopancho> the mobile / umpc meeeting?
<persia> gonzopancho: I think so: I'll look.
<gonzopancho> am I early?  (I'm in Hawaii, so -10 GMT, and its 22:45 here
<persia> You are early.  It's at 16:00 UTC, which is in about 7 and a quarter hours.
<persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080731 (when we get then)
<persia> Only item is to move the meeting 5 hours earlier, which might be better for you :)
<persia> Err.  4 hours (I can't do math today)
<gonzopancho> i see, thanks.   its gonna suck getting up at 5am
<gonzopancho> otherwise, has anyone attempted to build the 'mobile' stack for an amd geode yet?  (or should it just work?)
<persia> gonzopancho: That's likely more on-topic for #ubuntu-mobile : join me there after I do a bit of processor research
<davmor2> oh :)
<pitti> hello
<nhandler> Good morning pitti
<pitti> hey nhandler
<pedro_> hello!
 * mvo waves
 * MacSlow greets the funky bunch
<seb128> hello
<mvo> hey seb128
<nhandler> Hello seb128
<MacSlow> salut seb128
<pitti> hello everyone
<pitti> FYI, current template with activity reports: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-07-31
<pitti> I didn't see any agenda items on anyone's report, did I miss any?
<pitti> how is everyone doing with their spec implementations? four weeks to go :)
 * MacSlow feels the heat
<pitti> anything which is falling behind which we need to address?
<MacSlow> pitti, I got to check a few things with gdm upstream (user-switching, guest-account)
<MacSlow> hey kwwii
<kwwii> hi MacSlow
<pitti> MacSlow: that's actually an interesting topic; is the face browser now aimed at intrepid+1, or can we port it to 2.20?
<pitti> there was a small discussion with upstream recently about the wealth of missing features, so it doesn't look like it's intrepidable
<MacSlow> pitti, not yet... but Mark made clear he wants to know for sure about the user-switching and guest-account
<pitti> MacSlow: guest account in which sense? if he means the one we are doing (gdm-guest-account spec, from Prague), that's already in intrepid now
<pitti> I patched our current gdm (2.20)
<MacSlow> I can cc you the reply from William (on of gdm's upstream devs) once I get it
 * seb128 hugs pitti for the good work on the guest account
<pitti> :)
<seb128> MacSlow: what did you ask upstream?
<pitti> seb128: well, I don't feel *that* proud about it TBH, since it's not exactly an upstreamable solution, but the gdm situation is too difficult right now :(
<MacSlow> seb128, about fast-user-switching
<pitti> mvo: got any feedback about the sandbox upgrader yet? nice work!
<seb128> pitti: well, that's not your fault, upstream just ignored your mail on the list
<mvo> pitti: little so far, i guess it is still running for most people ;)
<pitti> seb128: they actually replied two days ago, but it didn't really help; they just talked about how they use selinux, and with a differnet set of requirements
<pitti> mvo: heh
<seb128> pitti: ah, they didn't copy the list on the reply, the only thing on the list was Jon asking about the new gdm issues
<mvo> seb128: btw, do you have moderation powers on the gnomecc list? my mail about the systemwide prefs seems to be stuck there
<seb128> mvo: theorically I'm the moderator I think but I lost the password ages ago and didn't manage to get somebody giving me it or a new one
<mvo> pitti: but if I get nothing by tomorrow I think I will sent a mail to ubuntu-devel asking specifically for testing
<seb128> mvo: can I rant about people mailing lists but not bothering subscribing to read replies, avoid moderation, etc? ;-)
<pitti> mvo: you should do that anyway, I think
<mvo> seb128: you can, but I will ignore you :P
<seb128> mvo: alright, so I'll ignore your mail in the moderation queue :-P
 * pitti points out that mailman has a nice option to disable mail delivery; subscription shouldn't hurt then
<mvo> seb128: seriously, I didn't expect it to be moderated (but then I guess its impossible without nowdays because of the spam)
<seb128> well, I don't get why mailing a list if you are not interested by the replies there
<MacSlow> hey mpt
<mpt> hello
<seb128> seems to be polite behaviour to subscribe when you ask something to a list so people can reply to the list
<mvo> seb128: I wrote in my mail that people should CC me, but I guess I will just subscribe
<mpt> Sorry, forgot the meeting time
<seb128> rather than ask people to break their workflow
<seb128> hey mpt
<pitti> well, frankly that annoys me as well
<pitti> I don't want to sub an entire list just for a single question
<seb128> mvo: I'll try to get the moderation password but I can't guarantee I'll get a reply ;-)
<pitti> but anyway, side discussion
<mvo> *shrug* its not that much of a "break-workflow" to ask for a CC IMNSHO
<pitti> mvo: especially not with reply-to and m-f-t
<seb128> mvo: and half of the people will do "reply to the list", forgot, "ups"
<seb128> and you got context lost, fragmentation in the thread, etc
<seb128> or they will just reply to all on every mail in the thread
<seb128> but right
<seb128> that's not on-topic there
<pitti> MacSlow: f-u-s isn't in 2.22 either?
<seb128> pitti: the applet is in gdm now
<seb128> and it's available and working the same way
<pitti> ah, nice
<seb128> they didn't rename the .server so I doesn't break configs on upgrade
<MacSlow> pitti, I didn't see any of that mentioned in gdm's ChangeLog nor hints in the code (well at least where I looked)
<MacSlow> pitti, I'm waiting for upstreams reply on the issue... also I don't know that Jon or Ray might already have in their local repositories pending to be pushed upstream
<pitti> MacSlow: so, can you please followup with Mark and explain the situation? Unless a miracle happens, I don't think that the new gdm will be ready in time for intrepid...
<pitti> if that's a "must have", well, then we have to invent something
<pitti> but it would be nice to know our requirements as early as possible
<MacSlow> pitti, Mark already asked me to do that in yesterday's call... I'm at it
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> everyone else happy with their spec progress then?
<seb128> pitti: well technically we could use the new gdm, FC9 uses it and it's working for basic purpose = login
<MacSlow> so and so, but it's just not normal in my case I guess
<seb128> but I think it would be a slap in the face for users for no real win
<pitti> *nod*
<MacSlow> seb128, there are rumours that F10 will revert back to the old gdm
<seb128> lol
<seb128> where did you read those?
<pitti> so, sponsoring queue: I checked it, and there seems to be just one bug which isn't fresh, bug 185171
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 185171 in libgnome "gnome-open has no manpage" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185171
<MacSlow> seb128, Mark and Matt
<pitti> seb128: that's on your desk; any problem with it, or just "not important enough to do right now"?
<seb128> ok, not rumours then, just jokes
<kwwii> I think that you need to look at which features are missing and how important they are vs. doing something new on a more bleading edge release
<kwwii> btw, are there packages for the new gdm?
<seb128> no
<MacSlow> nope
<kwwii> I'd like to look into how the themeing works
<seb128> I pushed the packaging to the ubuntu-desktop bzr, you just have to run debuild there
<mvo> bzr!
<MacSlow> kwwii, not at all.
<seb128> but themes are not applied
<pitti> wasn't that one of the things which are still missing?
<seb128> users login at first boot doesn't work
<seb128> and power management actions don't work
<pitti> seb128: pm> not even now, that CK ships the PM scripts?
<seb128> there is no theming in the new gdm
<kwwii> i wonder how many people sleep from gdm
<kwwii> and no themeing makes my life easier :p
<MacSlow> kwwii, and theming the simple-greeter vs. the graphical-greeter will be different... I told you a bit about thos .json files during the sprint
<mvo> no theming == easier life for kwwii
<seb128> pitti: the issue is that gnome-power-manager doesn't has the session cookie environment set
<kwwii> MacSlow: right, we should discuss that more after my vacation
<pitti> kwwii: I regularly use gdm for shutting down, but actually just because shutdown from the session is broken :)
<seb128> pitti: so there is no ck session available
<pitti> seb128: ah, still that
<seb128> I didn't debug further since the sprint
<seb128> too many other things to do
<MacSlow> kwwii, actually I don't want to discuss or do meetings at all and just get my head around gdm
<seb128> things we need for intrepid ;-)
<pitti> some weird execve which forgets about the env?
<seb128> that would be weird
<seb128> especially that the same code works on fedora
<pitti> ok, -> off meeting discussion, I think
<seb128> I'm wondering if those got dbus activated or something
<pitti> seb128: what's with the sponsoring bug?
<pitti> oh, and please everyone hug seb128 for doing sponsor queue management last and this week
 * MacSlow hugs seb128 
<seb128> pitti: the libgnome one? will sponsor that later
<pitti> ok, so no problems there
<pitti> splendid
<pitti> so, AOB?
<seb128> I did already quite some sponsoring this week, would be nice if other people (out of pitti) would clean their list too
<pitti> (except free ice cream for all *sweat*)
 * mvo did his bit today
<seb128> so dholbach doesn't have a chock when he will look at the list
<pitti> seb128: I checked the queue for the desktop team, looks quite good actually
<pitti> I already uploaded my bits (it's a bit out of date), mvo commited his two, the rest is !desktop
<seb128> pitti: right, I did sponsor almost all the desktopish things pending yesterday ;-)
<seb128> right
<pitti> so we are doing quite well there
<seb128> we should have a competition between platform and desktop team for sponsoring
<pitti> ok, seems we are done then?
<seb128> that would perhaps motive those to clean the list too ;-)
<pitti> seb128: double-karma sponsoring days? :-)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> nothing to add to the meeting from me
<pitti> oh, Scott has quite a few open, but he's not here today, so...
<pitti> so, thank you everyone
<mvo> thanks
<MacSlow> ok
<pitti> happy hacking, desktop team!
<seb128> thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Mentoring Reception | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC
<persia> If anyone is waiting for the Java meeting, we'll hold it in #ubuntu-java this week due to the schedule conflict.
<persia> Java people to #ubuntu-java please.  Mentoring Meeting here now.
<huats> :)
<huats> thanks persia
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: leave me 2 minutes brb
<norsetto> there is fun stuff to be found poking around, like /usr/bin/dh_undocumented
<nhandler> lol "This program does nothing and should no longer be used."
<persia> At least it doesn't use  /usr/share/man/man7/undocumented.7.gz as the manpage while doing nothing.
<huats> norsetto: back
<norsetto> huats: ok, I wonder if we should wait for porthose and nxvl
<huats> I think we can wait for them 5 minutes
<huats> I am not that hurry
<huats> I just have to leave at 16:00 UTC
<porthose> I'm here
<huats> great
<huats> ok
<huats> so i think it is different since nxvl is abroad
<huats> ...
<norsetto> ah ok, porthose is here, we just miss nxvl which is lost in the Florida's everglades
<norsetto> well, ok, lets start, everybody happy with the agenda?
<huats> yep
<nhandler> I'm good with the agenda
<porthose> yep
<norsetto> I'm just amazed at how time flies, its more than one month since our first meeting!
<porthose> that long?
<norsetto> point 1, status of new requests, everybody has the status handy?
 * porthose finding it
<norsetto> I have 4 names in the list
<norsetto> porthose: you mentioned that hanno wanted to have some time before be given a mentor?
<porthose> yes but that time has elapsed
<norsetto> porthose: ok, perhaps we should ping him then, anybody volunteer?
<huats> I can try ...
<norsetto> huats: its not that difficult, I'm sure you can manage it ;-)
<huats> norsetto: ok so I'll contact him...
<huats> but "after" monday
<norsetto> huats: thx, we have 2 mentors available, so, it should not be a problem to pair him
<porthose> I can probably try before that :)
<norsetto> porthose: huats won't be available to do anything before monday anyway, so lets share some of the tasks
<porthose> k
<norsetto> what about james d carroll?
<norsetto> I don't think we heard from him again!?
<porthose> not that I know of
<porthose> have never heard of  him
<huats> I am really sorry about that...
<huats> (I mean not being able to do stuffs before monday)
<norsetto> porthose: all his emails were circulated on the m.l.
<norsetto> porthose: on the 18th of July
<norsetto> lets ping him just in case, perhaps you want to do that porthose?
<porthose> hmm then I have been missing a lot of mail then grrrr (stupid ISP) I have had this problem before
<norsetto> porthose: ok, no problem, I'll forward them to your email address now
<porthose> thx
<norsetto> porthose: ok, sent them
<nhandler> Here is the email porthose: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-July/004231.html
<norsetto> finally, what about James Emerson?
<norsetto> we should probably wait until nxvl is back, he was in contact with him
<huats> norsetto: I agree with you...
<porthose> Works for me
<huats> (wait for nxvl on that one)
<norsetto> anybody else I'm missing? If not, lets go to point 2
<norsetto> huats: you were working on this?
<huats> go ahead
<huats> :)
<huats> yeah
<huats> so far I have continue to try to contact some more
<huats> but I have not any news...
<huats> I'll ping them again
<norsetto> who do we have to consider as missing?
<huats> I think it is important to ask the mentor in the old system what to do with their mentee
<huats> let me check...
<norsetto> huats: that would be point 4, anyhow, for the old list, I think the status is pretty clear
<huats> norsetto: it is not that clear to me :)
<norsetto> huats: well, there is you to start with, so, you should know about you :-)
<huats> I  was thinking about sending an email to the various mentor to ask them about that... and ask them if they wanted (of course resulting an agreement of their mentee) to switch in the new system
<huats> ...
<huats> ggrrrr
<huats> I don't find the list...
<huats> let me really check :)
<norsetto> huats: we did that already. to continue, asac is working well with jazzva and dfiloni
<norsetto> huats: TheMuso and AstralJava I have no idea what they are doing
<huats> ok great
<huats> same for me...
<norsetto> huats: and jr is still stuck with Lydia Pintscher
<huats> jr : apparently their are working
<huats> not very very activly but working
<norsetto> huats: so, what I really don't know is what slomo, mvo, raphink and jcorbier are doing, or want to do
<huats> I already answer for some of them :)
<huats> (from memory)
<huats> mvo is ok to get one
<huats> (like right now...)
<huats> same for raphink...
<huats> (I think I have updated the doc for that a long time ago...)
<raphink> hello
<raphink> what's it ?
<norsetto> yes, they are still quoted as mentors
<norsetto> raphink, we were discussing about mentors
<huats> :)
<norsetto> I'm glad to see you are still on board ;-)
<raphink> I'm still a mentor if someone needs me
<huats> (remember we already talked about that :))
<raphink> norsetto: I'm always on freenode ;)
<raphink> norsetto: I'm a ftpmaster at my work, I manage the Debian repository here, the buildd, and am the referrent packager
<raphink> so I mentor people at work as part of my paid activity
<norsetto> raphink: thats cool
<raphink> I've always said that I was available if someone needs mentoring ;)
<raphink> but if no one comes, I'm not going to look for people to teach ;)
<huats> raphink: sure
<huats> :)
<porthose> cool
<norsetto> raphink: yes, we have you down as a mentor for the senior program
<raphink> the senior program?
<huats> norsetto: you know french are never looking for extra work
<huats> ...
<huats> :)
<raphink> huats:  :p
<norsetto> raphink: would you want to be considered for newcomers too?
<raphink> what is the senior program ?
<huats> norsetto: honnestly I am not sure that the new process has been really detailed by most mentors...
<norsetto> raphink: yes, people that wants to apply for mentorship
<norsetto> huats: yes ...
<huats> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<huats> you have all the details
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: thats why we need to talk with them, one by one
<huats> norsetto: I talked to most of them, but it was before the new process
<huats> :)
<raphink> norsetto: I think I can help with senior
<raphink> I juts have to keep up-to-date with common practices that change often
<huats> raphink: if you have any questions just ping one of us (norsetto, porthose, nxvl or me)
<raphink> freeze stuff and techniques
<raphink> huats: ok
<norsetto> huats: anyhow, no news from slomo or jcorbier I gather?
<raphink> I'm in touch with nxvl quite a bit lately
<huats> norsetto: nope
<huats> nothing at all
<huats> I have tried to ping them many many timeS...
<porthose> havn't seen them on IRC
<huats> I will send them an email, not really sure if it will work better..
<norsetto> right, ok, we should remove them from the list then, there is no point in keeping them there
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> and I'll send them the email and we can add them back after...
<norsetto> ok
<norsetto> lets go to point 3, we are running short on time
<norsetto> any idea on how we could recruit new mentors?
<norsetto> what I have been doing so far was talking with new motus and now new uuc to ask them if they would have liked to do it
<huats> norsetto: I think it is hard to do something else...
<nhandler> norsetto: I would suggest offering something to new mentors. Currently, the only reason for a mentor to apply would be to get the good feeling that comes with helping new contributors. This doesn't work for everyone. If you had some special privilege/reward for mentors, you would probably attract a lot more.
<huats> may be we can launch from time to time (twice a year) a call for mentor...
<norsetto> huats: well, I also tried to send announcment through motu m.l. but that was not very succesfull ...
<huats> nhandler: not sure about a reward...
<huats> norsetto: I know...
<porthose> yea this is a tough one
<huats> this is probably because people are quite busy :)
<norsetto> nhandler: like what? What can we give to motivate volunteers?
<norsetto> nhandler: like you for instance ;-)
<porthose> what more is there than MOTU?
<porthose> you already have all the priviliges
<nhandler> norsetto: I'm not really sure. I just enjoy helping new contributors.
<norsetto> porthose: being active in mentoring is a definite plus for motuship
<porthose> true but we are talking a motivator
<huats> norsetto: from my point of view, people who want to help are already in the program...
<norsetto> porthose: well, not just mentoring, helping new contributors in general, but surely investing your time is seen very positively
<huats> I mean to have a mentee
<norsetto> porthose: beside, there is quite a lot to be learned by being a mentor
<porthose> yes and I agree
<huats> but for somethers they help with another way (answering on IRC...)
<norsetto> huats: yes
<porthose> I learn something new every day
<nhandler> norsetto: Maybe we should work to make it a requirement for UCDs to become mentors for a period of time prior to becoming MOTUs
<norsetto> ok, we will keep talking on a private base as we have been doing so far, and perhaps sending out remonder once or twice a year
<cjwatson> I would expect mentoring MOTUs to be a significant credit for a core developer application
<norsetto> nhandler: no, that we can't do, we can't oblige people to be involved with mentoring (one way or another)
<porthose> good idea
<norsetto> cjwatson: yes, that also I would expect
<cjwatson> it's part of the broader understanding of the system that one needs to acquire in order to be a core developer
<huats> cjwatson: +1
<norsetto> cjwatson: but that needs to be somehow "enforced" by the TB ...
<norsetto> ok, shall we continue to next point, unless anyone wants to add anything?
<porthose> +1
<norsetto> for the mailing list, I don't have any news beside the fact that our request was rejected and we reapplied to rt
<norsetto> that was 9 days ago, I heard nothing more since then
<porthose> what were the reasons for rejection?
<norsetto> our "private"ml seems to be working ok though
<norsetto> porthose: because it was motu
<porthose> aaahhh
<huats> fine by me
<norsetto> don't ask me what is really behind it, I have no clue
<porthose> any way new m.l. works for me :)
<norsetto> yes, works for me too, a great kudos to huats!
<norsetto> huats for president!
<norsetto> ops, no, can't do, he is already president ...
<porthose> hehe
<Hobbsee> norsetto: was this a launchpad-based list that you applied for?
<norsetto> ok, lets go to the last but one point, interface with the school
<huats> norsetto: LOL
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yes
<huats> I am already :D
<Hobbsee> norsetto: ahh.  TB has strongly recommended that the ubuntu mailing lists go to lists.ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> (which is why yours would have been rejected)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: right, that would explain it
<Hobbsee> norsetto: try poking jcastro directly, and filing at rt@ubuntu.com to get it done (you'll need to do both, most likely)
<Hobbsee> anyway, sorry norsetto, go on :)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yes, been there, done that ;-)
<Hobbsee> ah
<porthose> norsetto: that was a good maintainer script lecture thx :)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: not at all, thanks for popping in
<norsetto> porthose: well, after you realised that you could have done things in a different, perhaps better way, but anyhow, my point is that james_w is all alone to run the show, so, he wouldn't mind if we can help
<norsetto> in particular in finding new lecturers
<nhandler> I am giving a lecture in 2 weeks
<norsetto> people linke our good friend nhandler!
<james_w> hey all
<nhandler> Hi james_w
<norsetto> hi james_w, we were discussing how we (the reception) could help you with the school
<norsetto> james_w: I was saying with looking for new lecturers, but perhpas you have other ideas?
<huats> hi james_w
<james_w> yeah, new lecturers is the important thing for now
<norsetto> james_w: what we do right now, is to personally go and talk with all uuc and new MOTU to incite them to get forward
<james_w> If we have sessions weekly say then help with other things may be appreciated
<james_w> yeah, that's a good idea, thanks
<norsetto> other than that, I don't know what we could do, perhaps a good idea would be to try and ask the mentee what they would like to see as lessons
<norsetto> which is mainly filling in the school wiki page
<norsetto> ok, I will draft a letter to all mentees asking them to let us know what is it they feel they need and would like to be covered in the school
<norsetto> anything else?
<porthose> :)
<huats> norsetto: great idea...
<james_w> yeah, good idea norsetto
<huats> I think you are rigth...
<huats> may be instead of searching for lecturers
<huats> we can start knowing the subjects
<huats> and then ask for volunteer...
<huats> (it means to take the problem from the other side...)
<norsetto> huats: the problem is that its easier to find lectures that volunteer to give "their" lesson than to give a lesson which is felt needed by somebody else
<huats> but we can try to have both side :)
<norsetto> huats: yes, we can and we shall
<huats> and may be also, it might interesting to ask mentors what they think their previous mentess were lacking...
<norsetto> ok, I think we still have another our before the next meeting, so we can continue if you want
<huats> because a mentee might not know what he is missing while a mentor will...
<norsetto> huats: yes
<norsetto> ok, so I will draft a letter to all mentors, mentees and the motu-mentors m.l. to ask for their advice on this and circulate it through our m.l.
<norsetto> who is volunteering to write minutes for this meeting?
<huats> I can
<huats> but after monday once again....
<huats> (well may be before... in the plane)
<norsetto> huats: that would be cool
<huats> norsetto: ok
<norsetto> its great to have you guys on-board!
<huats> norsetto: it is great to have you too !!!
<norsetto> what do you guys think? You like it so far?
<huats> norsetto: I'll write them tonight if I can ... otherwise it'll be monday I am afraid...
<norsetto> anything we should improve, change?
<huats> norsetto: for the moment lots of stuffs have changed already
<huats> (new process, new kind of team???
<huats> )
<porthose> :)
<huats> so I think that will come later :)
<norsetto> huats: well, I mean for the reception itself
<huats> I know
<huats> but I mean I think we'll feel the necessary changes onces we will be more used with all the new process
<huats> ...
<norsetto> do you think we are sufficient in number, or too many, or ....
<porthose> not sure what you think :)
<norsetto> I'm quite happy ;-)
<norsetto> before I was all alone, that wasn't very fun ...
<huats> quite happy so far :)
<huats> but I am sure we can improve a lot
<porthose> true
<norsetto> we can and we must, so, don't hesitate to vent your thoughts
<huats> (myself by instance I'll work lots more than what I can do rigth now...)
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: I hope ;-)
<huats> for my self, as you know, I am just really busy with ubuntu-fr
<norsetto> huats: hmmm, what about a mentoring reception t-shirt?
<huats> it will be less the case in a few days :)
<huats> LOL
<porthose> lol
<huats> that could be a way to get new mentors !!!
<norsetto> huats: yes
<norsetto> huats: with a big MENTOR on the back :-)
<norsetto> huats: think we could do that? Could we get canonical to sponsor it ....?
<porthose> or ubuntu staff hehe
<norsetto> porthose: yes, STAFF for us :-)
<huats> norsetto: I think it worth to ask...
<norsetto> huats: how did you do for ubuntu-fr?
<huats> norsetto: oh we (ubuntu-fr) have not asked anything to canonical...
<huats> we are paying for it by ourself...
<norsetto> huats: ok
<norsetto> huats: well, if we have to shell some dosh, I'm for it
<huats> :)
<huats> shell some dosh ?
<norsetto> huats: whats the minimum number for the order?
<huats> no idea....
<huats> we are printing them by ourself too...
<huats> what do you mean by "shell some dosh" ?
<norsetto> huats: ah, ok, so you buy the "blank" t-shirt and then print them
<huats> norsetto: yep...
<norsetto> huats: oh, thats from some comic I read I guess, pay some money
<huats> ok
<huats> :)
<huats> I can ask my provider
<norsetto> huats: please do
<huats> but I know that they don't sell less than 100 shirts usually
<huats> ...
<huats> BUT I might ask her for a favor...
<norsetto> huats: ah, ok, thats what I wanted to know
<norsetto> huats: but I mean, this would be an extra on top of your other order :-)
<huats> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> huats: "sorry, we realised we need some more ..."
<huats> but I think it is 100 of a kind...
<huats> :)
<huats> I'll asked her anyway
<huats> :)
<norsetto> ok, asking is free anyway
<norsetto> invite her for dinner ;-)
<porthose> flowers
<huats> LOOL
<huats> not sure everybody will agree....
<norsetto> just remember to send geraldine out for the evening *cough*
<porthose> lolol
<norsetto> I mean, its a boring ubuntu dinner ...
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<norsetto> there we are, now we woke up the ingeniebro :-)
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: news of nxvl? Was he eaten by any alligator by any chance?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto, no news from him.. nothing at all, he might we waiting to her gf sister to finish showering lol :P xD
<RoAkSoAx> s/we/be
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yeah, I wouldn't be surprised
<norsetto> ok, shall we adjourn?
<porthose> +1
<huats> +1
<norsetto> +1
<norsetto> ok, with +3 for and 0 against, we adjourn (sound of the mallet hitting the desk)
<RoAkSoAx> jeez you made me woke up early to see the meeting, and you adjourn it :(
<huats> :)
 * norsetto goes and updates the senior list
<huats> norsetto: ok
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 Jul 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team
<mdz> 8.10 release meeting starts in 20 minutes on this channel
<mdz> (doesn't seem to be on the fridge calendar)
<Hobbsee> there's a release meeting?
<persia> The release meeting is at 16:00 UTC?  The mobile meeting is sceduled then.
<persia> (We'll be extra quick)
<sbeattie> persia: there's a rumor the mobile meeting happens over in #ubuntu-mobile?
<persia> sbeattie: I suppose, although I hadn't heard the rumor, and as chair would have expected it :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team
<persia> So, Mobile meeting in #ubuntu-mobile in 10 minutes
<mdz> slangasek: Keybuk is ill and will not be able to attend, seb128 will fill in for him
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> morning, folks
<mdz> good day
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<slangasek> looks like we have everyone who's expected, so let's go ahead and get started
<seb128> hello
<dendrobates> \o
<mdz> slangasek: MootBot?
<dendrobates> was this meeting always 2 hours?
<mdz> dendrobates: no, I arbitrarily extended it on our calendars because it seemed so unlikely to be finished in one
<slangasek> mdz: I don't know how to run MootBot; could you get the ball rolling with it?
<mdz> slangasek: I could, but then I'd be stuck commanding it as it only listens to the chair
<slangasek> oh
<mdz> slangasek: #startmeeting to begin
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:06. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  milestoned bugs
<mdz> slangasek: commands are [COMMAND] <text>, docs are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<mdz> you've got it
<mdz> slangasek: can you provide a [LINK] to the official list?
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1322
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1322
<slangasek> was just fishing that out :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<slangasek> the first is the list of release-critical bugs milestoned for alpha-4, the second is the list of all bugs that have been targetted to intrepid
<slangasek> since the first list is nice and short, I thought it would be good to have the other list to hand
<slangasek> it looks like desktop and platform are the only ones with bugs that are blockers for alpha-4, so it'd be good to hear from the other teams whether they have concerns about any bugs not listed there
<mdz> too bad it doesn't show assignees
<heno> I have one from today that should go on that list if confirmed - bug 253686
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253686 in ubuntu "Intrepid: Alternative cd fails to detect network regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253686
<seb128> slangasek: I've no clue about the kubuntu bugs, you would need Riddell for those
<cjwatson> the one platform bug there (pulseaudio) was one that Luke thought he'd fixed on Tuesday but has been reported to regress, so needs him to have another look at it
<dendrobates> slangasek: I asked the server team to start milestoning bugs and they should show up soon.
<heno> that comes out of our daily smoke test work - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
<cjwatson> I've /msged him in case he missed the reopens
<slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-4 is the list showing assignees, but includes bugs that are not blockers as well
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-alpha-4 is the list showing assignees, but includes bugs that are not blockers as well
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes, I spoke with Luke about it yesterday, so he's aware
<davmor2> Yes I found a couple of major issues with today's alternates hen has mentioned the one the other is the partitioning phase
 * cjwatson eyeballs 253686
<mdz> slangasek: perhaps it would be useful to go around to each of the key teams and get a summary of what's pending?
<slangasek> dendrobates: please keep https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting in mind when having them milestone bugs, since at this point I assume that anything that doesn't also get nominated for release is not a blocker for the milestone and will *not* be managed as such
<dendrobates> slangasek: will do
<slangasek> mdz: fair enough
<slangasek> pgraner: can you start us off? what does the kernel team have pending in its corner for alpha-4?
<mdz> since the milestone list sounds a bit sparse
<davmor2> cjwatson: I've added the logs from the cd but they are tarbz2 for ease on my part bug 253691 is the other bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253691 in ubuntu "Intrepid: Alternative cd fails on partitioning regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253691
<pgraner> slangasek: at this point mostly clean up and bug squashing
<pgraner> slangasek: we have got all the major stuff in now its polish
<mdz> davmor2: you'll need to provide hardware information for 253686
<slangasek> pgraner: is someone (ogasawara?) tracking the bugs listed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/linux ? the kernel seems to account for a sizeable proportion of bugs that are targeted for intrepid as a whole; are these bugs given a high priority in the team?
<mdz> pgraner: are there further kernel uploads planned between now and alpha 4?
<davmor2> mdz: I'll install something in a bit and run the hardware test and link it to both bugs for you :)
<mdz> slangasek: my understanding is that with the changes in intrepid, builds should take substantially less time and hopefully be less disruptive to release operations as a result
<mdz> davmor2: thanks
<mdz> slangasek: (kernel builds, that is)
<cjwatson> the ports kernels are still not in place
<cjwatson> I'd like to know what the plan is for those
<cjwatson> this also includes the -386 kernel
<lool> For linux-lpia, maintenance will be handled by USG
<mdz> slangasek: [TOPIC] kernel team might be appropriate
<slangasek> [TOPIC] kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel team
<slangasek> mdz: right, as cjwatson mentions the kernel has been whittled down to the point that -386 is no longer included in the main build, which means we have kernel packages in main that have been left out-of-sync over a rather long period now
<cjwatson> right now, there's lots of noise on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/intrepid_probs.html and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ that's accounted for by the kernel, and I'd like us to be able to clear that out soonish
<pgraner> slangasek: they are tracked weekly,  most are in fix committed
<cjwatson> so while the new kernel package organisation is less disruptive in terms of builds, it's created a new different kind of disruption
<pgraner> we will be uploading a new kernel today
<pgraner> cjwatson: we don't handle the ports kernels within the kernel team anymore
<slangasek> having the ports in a separate package will be generally helpful if ports problems can be fixed without an upload of the main package; but I don't see how it makes sense to split off 386, build time alone has IME never been the main cost, so much as the expense of iterating a kernel build
<mdz> pgraner: the nvidia issue is that the driver packages Recommend nvidia-settings, which is in universe.  that should probably be dropped to a Suggests
<cjwatson> pgraner: I know, but the apparent effect that nobody is handling them is most unfortunate from an archive perspective
<lool> pgraner: Hmm isn't armel on the kernel's team plate?  or is that considered a non-ports kernel already?
<slangasek> pgraner: tracked weekly> glad to hear it, I wasn't sure if the high number of 'fix committed's was a coincidence :)
<pgraner> slangasek: its part of our weekly meeting :-)
<cjwatson> and I think we should take into account that in reality we *do* support the -386 kernel to some extent (LTSP)
<cjwatson> so it's a bit odd to treat it as ports
<mdz> is -386 relevant even for thin clients anymore?
<mdz> we just put out a release with 5-year support for it which should suit legacy use cases just fine
<cjwatson> frankly I care less about whether it's relevant than about the fact that it's in a halfway house right now
<mdz> is this the first time this has been raised with the kernel team?
<cjwatson> either we have the guts to delete it, or we keep it going, but right now it's sitting there getting in the way because nobody's upgrading it (and it would be quite easy to upgrade it simply by putting it back into mainline, as slangasek points out)
<cjwatson> first time it's been raised coherently, I think - it's come up in casual conversation and it came up at the in-person release meeting in London but that unfortunately didn't have kernel representation
<pgraner> cjwatson: its my understanding at UDS is was decided to be dropped out and community maintained. If we need to pick it back up we can, but is it necessary?
 * pgraner was not at UDS
<cjwatson> there seems to have been some optimism about community maintenance
<pgraner> cjwatson: apparently
<mdz> slangasek: sounds like a discussion to be taken offline. [ACTION]?
<cjwatson> actually, there has been an upload of -386, but nobody has sorted out linux-meta for it, I think
<cjwatson> which would be quite a simple task for somebody
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson and slangasek to follow up with pgraner about details of the kernel package split
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson and slangasek to follow up with pgraner about details of the kernel package split
<cjwatson> ok
<pgraner> ack
<slangasek> anything else on the kernel side before moving on?
<pgraner> not that I can think of right now
<slangasek> [TOPIC] server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  server team
<dendrobates> the only possible blocker is the degraded-raid work
<slangasek> blocker for -4, or for intrepid as a whole?
<dendrobates> I had wanted to get that into alpha-4, but I'm don't think the installer bits have been done.
<dendrobates> or the grub bits.
<cjwatson> Dustin was just talking with me about that earlier today
<cjwatson> I think we'll cover it in our meeting on the 18th
<dendrobates> ok.
<cjwatson> I gave him some advice on how to proceed
<dendrobates> ok, we don't have any blockers, then.
<slangasek> anything big that's not a blocker, that you're working on between now and alpha-4?
<slangasek> (big -> potentially disruptive)
<dendrobates> we are waiting for many upstream code drops at this time.  likewise-open, possibly openldap 2.4.11 if debian picks it up.
<slangasek> timing-wise, we might want to go ahead with 2.4.11 in advance of Debian due to the Debian release freeze
<slangasek> I can coordinate that with mathiaz
<dendrobates> ok
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to discuss openldap 2.4.11 drop with mathiaz
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to discuss openldap 2.4.11 drop with mathiaz
<dendrobates> we are working on xen domU patches for the intrepid kernel
<dendrobates> is should say 64bit patches
<slangasek> xen's been universe-only before now, hasn't it?
<dendrobates> yes, but we need to move domU only to main to have a fully supported amazon ec2 image.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> shall we move on?
<mdz> slangasek: domU is the bit which is upstream, AIUI
<dendrobates> yes, but there are issues with 64bit that RH has fixed, that are not upstream
<dendrobates> I believe most  are in 2.6.27, and need to be backported.
<dendrobates> or going to be.
<slangasek> dendrobates: when are you expecting that to land in intrepid, btw?
<slangasek> I trust that the upload itself will happen in a manner appropriate to the milestone schedules
<dendrobates> chuck expects to be ready for for kernel team review next week.
 * slangasek nods
<dendrobates> it will depend on what changes thay want, if any.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile team
<slangasek> I spoke with David Mandala Tuesday since he wasn't going to be able to make the meeting today; there don't appear to be any concerns from his camp for alpha-4
<lool> Right; we would like to publish new dailies soon which would become installer images for Ubuntu MID
<lool> But that doesn't impact alpha 4
<lool> We're also looking forward into replacing the installer in the new images
<cjwatson> I extended an invitation to David today to have you lob installer problems over to us; might be faster than you guys trying to figure them out from scratch
<slangasek> lool: is that anything you expect to need support from the release team on?  I think in the past mobile has been fairly self-sufficient in its image creation
<lool> slangasek: Exactly; I don't expect we need support from release team
<lool> In the past, we had to request last minute changes in e.g. lpia kernels when these were still in the main kernel
<lool> But this isn't the case anymore
 * slangasek nods
<lool> cjwatson: Thanks a lot; I'll forward to persia who has been looking into this
 * persia doesn't need an explicit forward :)
<lool> slangasek: I'll raise any new mobile-related issue concerning alpha 4 to you if any pops up in between
<slangasek> lool: sounds good then, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
 * ogra notes thet the mobile team is here anyway, since you stole our booked channel :P
<slangasek> heno: there are some other items on the agenda for talking about specific QA issues related to the milestone; but first, are there any red flags you know about that we should be made aware of?
<heno> slangasek: only the bugs mentioned above
<mdz> heno: any regressions identified from alpha 3 which should be fixed for alpha 4?
<heno> just those AFAIK
<heno> sbeattie: ^ ?
<sbeattie> No regressions that I'm aware of, but I haven't been watching closely.
<heno> we ran a series of automated installs on desktops and laptops yesterday, which went fine
<slangasek> we do have <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874>, the list of problems severe enough to warrant mention in the alpha-3 release notes
<heno> (that was alpha-3 though)
<slangasek> I've milestoned all of these, and a number are already fixed
<slangasek> (or partially fixed, as in the case of the PC speaker issue)
<slangasek> (not all milestoned for alpha-4, but milestones set for each)
<heno> thanks, we'll look at those
<slangasek> ok, so it sounds like the big known regressions are the ones we've already identified during alpha-3, so no surprises on that front
<slangasek> I trust the QA team will escalate any new showstoppers as they find them :)
<heno> indeed :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  desktop team
<slangasek> seb128: you're up
<seb128> I don't have an overwiew of what everybody is doing since pitti only ask me to join the meeting 10 minutes before it started
<seb128> but there is a new GNOME scheduled on monday
<seb128> I've the "shutdown and reboot act as logout" on my list for next week
<seb128> as well as the broken gnome-keyring ssh agent
<slangasek> oh right, this is a 3-week milestone, which means we're offset against GNOME releases again :-)
<slangasek> do you have a bug number for the latter?
<seb128> otherwise pitti landed the guest account thing to gdm, that might require testing but should not break anything
<seb128> bug #252498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252498 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring asks for SSH passphrase *every* time I use ssh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252498
<slangasek> thanks, that looks like a bug to have a bit higher on the radar
<seb128> I just triaged it, I was tracking http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=544554 which is the upstream bug in fact
<ubottu> Gnome bug 544554 in general "ssh agent doesn't work correctly" [Normal,Reopened]
<slangasek> seb128: so overall, nothing too disastrous so far :)
<seb128> no
<heno> FWIW: We'll have some basic desktop test coverage like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ara/ldtp/test_results/intrepid/alpha-3/ also for alpha-4
<seb128> and I don't think we expect big changes out of the new GNOME
<seb128> and the new GNOME is only 2 weeks of upstream work so it should not change that much ;-)
<slangasek> Riddell: are you here?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up directly with Riddell regarding milestoned Kubuntu bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up directly with Riddell regarding milestoned Kubuntu bugs
<slangasek> [TOPIC] platform team
<MootBot> New Topic:  platform team
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi boss
<cjwatson> pending for platform:
<cjwatson>   - compcache (wins: significant memory reduction on live CD, and ability to see how much further we have to go to hit memory targets; possible problems: significant weirdness on live CD)
<cjwatson>   - network-manager 0.7 (wins: 3G, system-wide configuration; possible problems: non-functional network, config upgrade failures)
<cjwatson>   - X input hotplug (wins: more rational handling of multiple input devices, better configuration in future; possible problems: keyboard and mouse configuration upgrade)
<cjwatson>   - OpenJDK in main (done, but lots of per-package cleanup to do)
<cjwatson> plus the installer bugs that people keep inconsiderately coming up with :)
<slangasek> right :)
<mdz> cjwatson: talking of the live CD, any further fallout from aufs?
<cjwatson> well, technically, I don't think we've seen any confirmed fallout from aufs yet
<cjwatson> but no, not that I've seen so far
<cjwatson> QA/kernel might have seen something
<mdz> cjwatson: all of the above are landing for alpha 4?
<pgraner> cjwatson: nothing from us
<cjwatson> mdz: currently slated to, at any rate
<mdz> cjwatson: asac is away until Monday, and would be doing the NM upload, yes?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> but alpha 4 is two weeks from now
<mdz> indeed
<mdz> cjwatson: any word on the changes to cdimage?
<slangasek> so that gives us a fair window in which to shake down the new NM, but we'll want to have people agressively testing it in advance of the alpha
<mdz> or rather, the supposition that changes will be identified which should be made to cdimage for this release
<cjwatson> mdz: sorry, can you be more specific on what you're referring to?
<slangasek> heno: is that something you could coordinate next week?
<mdz> slangasek: maybe worth nominating a daily prior to alpha 4 for a hardware test run
<heno> slangasek: can do
<mdz> cjwatson: splitting up cdimage to help with the testing bottlenecks
<cjwatson> oh, that. no, not as yet :-(
<slangasek> mdz: in reference to NM specifically, or in general?
<mdz> slangasek: NM
<heno> we are testing daily on HW now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
<slangasek> mdz: yes, can do
<cjwatson> I missed my last RT call due to being sick, but will chase it next week
<heno> we can include NM specifically in that
<mdz> slangasek: since AIUI the test should exercise basic functionality there (bringing up the wired interface)
<mdz> though of course wireless is probably more in need of it
<slangasek> yes, I'd hope we would get testing of both with enough lead time to fix any major breakage for the alpha
<heno> I'll add a note to the page to test both wired and wireless explicitly next week
<cjwatson> in my previous tests, my failures have been Broadcom (allegedly fixed, need to test) and nm-applet crashes on upgrade which go away on restart
<cjwatson> I'd recommend that testers take a copy of ~/.gconf first so that failures can be reproduced
<pgraner> cjwatson: as far as I know rtg got done
<slangasek> (since last cycle, the NM feedback from the published milestones was rather overwhelming and took some time to sort through)
<cjwatson> pgraner: this was something different, a crash in network-manager
<mdz> I put my hand up for at least one wired (forcedeth) and one wireless (iwl4965)
<mdz> to test prior to alpha 4
<cjwatson> (HAL stopped reporting a certain property for Broadcom that network-manager wanted)
<pgraner> cjwatson: ah, ok there were a round of bcomm issues that he just got fixed
<cjwatson> I'm sure asac would appreciate PPA testing
<cjwatson> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/network-manager/ubuntu intrepid main
<mdz> will do it today
<heno> slangasek: I have a call in 10 min. could we cover other QA items soon?
<heno> I see HW testing as an item
<slangasek> yes, let's skip ahead a bit
<slangasek> I think we've covered the NM topic adequately?
<cjwatson> I think so
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Hardware testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware testing
<heno> We'll be working to automate basic installs of all the alternate/server images for alpha 4. This will not cover all the current install cases but should provide reproduceable smoke coverage.
<slangasek> excellent
<heno> we rand a batch of alpha-3 tests yesterday which went well#
<heno> after shaking out some issues
<heno> (this was actually the first automated intrepid run)
<mathiaz> heno: what are you using to automate the -server installs ?
<slangasek> is this tied directly to hardware certification? (I think that was what mdz meant when suggesting this topic item; not specifically an issue for alpha-4, but good to keep an eye on)
<heno> Marc and I had a mini-sprint here yesterday and today
<mdz> slangasek: we're in the process of converging the two
<heno> mathiaz: they are run on your setup in London
<mdz> slangasek: so we have a set of hardware which needs to be tested (for certification or otherwise), and we have a set of test cases to be run
 * slangasek nods
<mdz> slangasek: heno, Marc et al are working to make both of those things happen efficiently and repeatably
<heno> right HW-cert testing should now also bring value to us pre-release
<mathiaz> heno: right - I'
<mathiaz> heno: I've been doing that during the hardy cycle
<mathiaz> heno: using the hw in the london lab to run pre-release tests.
<slangasek> heno: right - and resources are in place to review test failures, incl. hw test failures, and escalate to the appropriate developers?
<mdz> slangasek: by the agenda item, I meant the combined test
<slangasek> mdz: ok
<heno> slangasek: that is still WIP
<slangasek> heno: ok
<mathiaz> heno: are test cases already run automatically ?
<heno> mathiaz: no, they need to be launched
<mathiaz> heno: ok
<heno> as before
<heno> though we are moving toward daily crons
<slangasek> heno: I look forward to lots of good bug reports coming to us from the automated testing, then
<heno> great :)
<slangasek> going back to the agenda, we have several topics that I think have already been covered individually with the team leads, but let's flip through quickly in case anyone thinks of something to add
<slangasek> [TOPIC] milestoned features
<MootBot> New Topic:  milestoned features
 * heno is on a call
<slangasek> I think we've already covered above all the features that are targeted or landing for alpha-4
<slangasek> [TOPIC] general feature update
<MootBot> New Topic:  general feature update
<slangasek> one comment that I have here is that the technical overview for the alphas has been rather lacking in interesting technical content so far
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
<slangasek> I haven't gotten any response yet from the ubuntu-marketing team to my requests to flesh this out
<jcastro> slangasek: I can spin up for the next alpha for that
<slangasek> so if there are particular features that you know have been implemented on your teams that you're proud of and want to highlight to users of our alphas, please let me or jcastro know about them
<slangasek> (including right now, if you have something off the top of your head :)
<mdz> I noticed that on a fresh install, I get a screen resolution applet on the panel which behaves similarly to the MacOS one
<pgraner> slangasek: for kernel would the delta between the last alpha's changelog work/appropriate?
<cjwatson> noted, I'll see what I can do next week
<mathiaz> slangasek: samba 3.2 ?
<slangasek> pgraner: maybe picking one or two highlights that are significant advancements over the hardy kernel?
<slangasek> probably not just "we fixed bugs" ;)
<pgraner> slangasek: got it, will get it to you
<slangasek> mathiaz: <-- biased, please tell me (off-line) what you think we should say :)
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to write up the new screen resolution applet for the alpha-4 technical overview
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to write up the new screen resolution applet for the alpha-4 technical overview
<mathiaz> slangasek: ok
<slangasek> moving on
<slangasek> [TOPIC] known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  known regressions
<slangasek> we've already covered the ones that were identified in alpha-3
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937
<slangasek> gr, no
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview#head-f550c3cb66314cc86937bc31b1c8bcfb08ad1874
<slangasek> there
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 07 Aug 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team
<mdz> are folks still seeing usplash issues?
<mdz> the corrupted progress bar, e.g.
<pgraner> mdz: I am on my MacAir with the framebuffer
<slangasek> there will be some tweaks made to our bug tracking over the next week or so to try to give us a better handle on regression-tracking in general; this has been discussed on ubuntu-devel, but we'll get some wiki documentation in place and send a proper announcement to u-d-a
<mdz> bug 243682 for example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243682 in usplash "[Intrepid] Usplash Screen Corruption" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243682
<mdz> bug 252146 and bug 245849 look like possible dupes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252146 in usplash "usplash has three progress bars" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245849 in usplash "getting reflection of progress bar during installation of Intrepid" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245849
<mdz> the first of those at least is nominated for intrepid
<slangasek> in the meantime, as regards regression tracking on the whole, if you find a bug that's a regression vs. 8.04 please escalate it by nominating it for intrepid
<mdz> I've added a 'regression' tag for good measure
<mdz> which I think is useful to do in addition to nominating for the release
<slangasek> agreed
<seb128> slangasek:  about the new features, the guest login might be one to list there
<mdz> slangasek: [ACTION] for you, to get that documentation updated and disseminated?
<mdz> seb128: good call
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to provide & announce documentation on policy for tracking regressions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to provide & announce documentation on policy for tracking regressions
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to add the guest login to the alpha-4 tech overview
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to add the guest login to the alpha-4 tech overview
<slangasek> I've accepted the nomination of 243682 now
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> everything is acceptably sized at the moment
<slangasek> unfortunately, I know that samba 3.2 has bloated rather substantially over samba 3.0 (by a factor of 2 or more), so that's not moving us in the right direction
<slangasek> so we'll need to continue to keep an eye on these
<slangasek> does anyone know of other changes coming up that are going to cost us more space?
<cjwatson> one thing I've been meaning to do for ages is to remove the uncompressed Packages files from the apt archives on the CDs
<cjwatson> that would save us a couple of megabytes on alternate, though not a lot on desktop
<cjwatson> it needs some testing though, I wouldn't be surprised if something in the installer assumed an uncompressed Packages file on CDs
<slangasek> is that something you'd have time to work on before alpha-4?
<slangasek> (should I [ACTION] you?)
<cjwatson> sure, I can probably fit it in next week
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to investigate removing uncompressed Packages files from alternate CDs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to investigate removing uncompressed Packages files from alternate CDs
<mdz> cjwatson: it's potentially useful to be able to use apt-cache et al in the live system
<cjwatson> mdz: Packages.gz is quite sufficient
<mdz> cjwatson: oh, you mean the Packages files on the CD itself, not the ones in /var/lib/apt inside squashfs
<cjwatson> I'm not talking about removing actual *functionality* in any way
<cjwatson> right
<mdz> ignore me
<mdz> I missed that you were talking about alternate
<cjwatson> I don't know of other major size changes definitely coming up, although haven't had numbers on OOo 3.0 yet
<slangasek> cjwatson: is Luke still going to try to downsample desktop sounds for intrepid?  I don't remember any objections to this change, and it would be good to start that fairly early in the cycle instead of at the end when we're crunched and not properly regression-testing the change
<mdz> there was a bug filed to document the possibility of sharing the kernel image between /cdrom and /
<cjwatson> I haven't asked recently, but give me an action for it
<cjwatson> mdz: which I fixed
<cjwatson> bug 80385
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 80385 in ubiquity "Could save some space by omitting /boot/vmlinuz from live filesystem" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80385
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to follow up with Luke regarding desktop sound downsampling
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to follow up with Luke regarding desktop sound downsampling
<mdz> cjwatson: *hug*
<slangasek> [TOPIC] release manager for alpha-4
<MootBot> New Topic:  release manager for alpha-4
<cjwatson> ogra noted that in theory bits of /lib/modules could be shared somehow, but that's a lot harder
<ogra> yeah
<slangasek> this is mostly just an announcement; I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone
<slangasek> so please coordinate with him :)
<ogra> you could just omit them from the squashfs though and install the .deb at install time .... and have an overlay during the live session
<slangasek> [TOPIC] set schedule for future meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  set schedule for future meetings
<mdz> slangasek: [AGREED] will get that into the meeting summary
<slangasek> ogra, cjwatson: we're in danger of overrunning even the extended 2 hour time slot, so please discuss that one further off-line
<slangasek> [AGREED] I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone; please coordinate with him that week
<MootBot> AGREED received:  I'm gone to DebConf the week alpha-4 comes out, so Martin Pitt will be standing in as release manager for the milestone; please coordinate with him that week
<slangasek> now, schedule for future meetings
<slangasek> Martin noted that this time slot doesn't work very well for him, and it does already overlap with mobile team anyway; so I'm wondering if a Wednesday slot would work better
<ogra> slangasek, i wasnt planning to discuss that here :) there is a bug for it open
<slangasek> but, er, google calendar appears to be confused at the moment, so I can't actually check the distro schedule there
<cjwatson> Wednesday afternoon is generally bad for meetings for me personally
<cjwatson> Friday afternoon perhaps?
<pgraner> slangasek: Mon, Wed & Fri work best I'm slammed on Tues & Thurs.
 * slangasek manages to pull up the distro ical feed
<slangasek> it looks like someone has scheduled us for 15:30 on next Wednesday for the release team meeting...?
<cjwatson> that was a mistake, I deleted it
<slangasek> oh :)
<cjwatson> not sure what happened there
<slangasek> Friday looks fairly open according to the distro calendar
<slangasek> e.g., if we can keep this meeting down to 1h, would 15:00 UTC work for people?
<mdz> friday is not an ideal choice for those in eastern time zones
<mdz> slangasek: davidm told me that the mobile team would be moving their meeting anyway
<slangasek> mdz: 15:00 UTC is inside business hours for everyone involved, I think?
<mdz> so this time slot will be open, if it works otherwise
<slangasek> whereas 16:00 UTC is not, and pitti was one who mentioned that as a concern
<cjwatson> you're the western outlier as far as timezones go I think
<mdz> slangasek: I think an hour is probably optimistic; this one was two hours
<mdz> 90m is probably doable
<slangasek> would 1500-1630 UTC on Fridays work for everyone else?
<cjwatson> WFM
<mdz> the start conflicts with a weekly meeting for me, but it tends to finish early anyway
<pgraner> ACK
<slangasek> dendrobates: ok with you?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with dendrobates, heno, Keybuk, pitti to confirm Friday 1500-1630 UTC time slot
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with dendrobates, heno, Keybuk, pitti to confirm Friday 1500-1630 UTC time slot
<slangasek> will resolve that out-of-band
<mathiaz> slangasek: he isn't around - I'm not sure it would work every week
<mdz> slangasek: his calendar has a meeting from 1630-1730 UTC every Friday
<cjwatson> it's probably ok for it not to be perfect as long as a delegate is available
<mdz> slangasek: but no outright conflict
<slangasek> ok, that's our tentative target for the next meeting then; will follow up by email to confirm
<slangasek> next meeting will be next week, anyway, since that's the week before the milestone
<slangasek> cjwatson: seeing the time, I think we'll push back the Ubuntu 8.04.2 discussion until next week
<cjwatson> ok, or we can resolve it separately
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:06.
<slangasek> thanks, all
<mdz> slangasek: thanks, that was productive
<slangasek> next week I'll see if I can manage to have us be productive in a somewhat shorter timespan :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Aug 13:00 UTC: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 02 Aug 15:00: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 20:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 06 Aug 22:00: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<n3t0> who is the webmaster or admin of ubuntu forum?
<emgent> n3t0: it`snt the right channel to ask. try #canonical-sysadmin
<emgent> Newz2000 i think.
<n3t0> tnx
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-01
<anonlol> hi guys
 * Hobbsee waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-02
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Xubuntu Community | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team
<technolalia> it is the xubuntu meeting right now, isn't it?
<bazhang> #schedule
<bazhang> @schedule
<ubottu> bazhang: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 18:00: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Xubuntu Community | 03 Aug 20:00: Mozilla Team | 06 Aug 00:00: Community Council | 06 Aug 22:00: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 16:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<technolalia> so why so quiet?
<Hobbsee> no one else has shown up?
<charlie-tca> I'll ping them, and see where they are.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville is not around yet, today.
<persia> charlie-tca: Are you chairing then?
<charlie-tca> No, I'm not a developer and don't think I can. I am trying to get hold of j1mc to chair
<charlie-tca> anybody else want to chair this?
<charlie-tca> Sorry, but I have to go build a shed now.
<technolalia> meeting abandoned I think
 * persia hopes no bikes will be stored therein
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Aug 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 08 Aug 00:00 UTC: Americas Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-03
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Mozilla Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 08 Aug 00:00 UTC: Americas Board
<fta> asac, you're late for the meeting
<Jazzva> Ok... We're missing few people from the meeting so we can try to do what we can now :).
<fta> so.. we only have a small agenda with 3 items from gnomefreak but he's not there. neither is asac.
<Jazzva> heh, fta :)
<fta> do we postpone or proceed anyway ?
<Jazzva> fta, I think we can finish the first item, get few possible days for bug work for the second item, and postpone for the third item
<fta> sounds fine.
<fta> ok, i'll lead, until asac shows up
<fta> 1st item: status updates from the tasks set at last meeting
<fta> gnomefreak is not there but he wanted to make sure no action point is blocked
<Jazzva> tasks set at the last meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-06-22
<fta> hm, ok
<fta> shirish is not there either
<Jazzva> I think shirish's task is done...
<fta> yep, let's skip the actions tagged as "done"
<Jazzva> yep :)
<fta> "Reorganize extension wiki pages", that's yours Jazzva
<fta> status ?
<Jazzva> My task for Extensions wiki is done... just need to update status
<fta> excellent
<fta> "Add thunderbird examples to XPI.TEMPLATE and document that on MozillaTeam/Extensions/Packaging page."
<Jazzva> I haven't heard if asac added it... Anyway, that shouldn't be hard, so I can do it, if he can't...
<fta> looking at the mozilla-devscripts branch, it's not there
<Jazzva> we can check that later with asac.
<fta> Jazzva, feel free to reassign to yourself
<Jazzva> (I'll start filling in "Decisions" column on wiki, as a reminder :))
<fta> ok
<fta> next is "Write a blog post/announcement with these stats and a call to join m-e-d team. Include "medal of honor" for the m-e-d member that updated most packages."
<fta> i guess no progress
<Jazzva> that goes together with "Target initial m-e-d report for end of July (or if we are good June)"... I suppose we can handle that later
<Jazzva> no progress yet. We have the post template only, still need to work out a way to get all the data
<fta> any volunteer to take over gnomefreak for this one ?
<Jazzva> (would be good if volunteer has an idea how to fetch the data ;))
<fta> I guess we need someone on planet
<Jazzva> fta, I would like if we could talk later on fetching that (you're the script-master :P)
<Jazzva> and see if we can work something out...
<fta> indeed, stats is one part (i can script something), publishing is the other part (but i'm not on planet)
<Jazzva> then gnomefreak can post it, and it will get on planet.
<fta> ok
<Jazzva> cool... then we have that set. :)
<fta> next is "Provide basic blog post layout", for you
<Jazzva> and that means we're also done with this "Target initial m-e-d report for end of July (or if we are good June)".
<fta> oops, no, rescheddule to august
<fta> (we're definitely bad)
<Jazzva> ok
<fta> hm, "Provide basic blog post layout" is done => skip
<Jazzva> well, we have the last one not started...
<fta> "Document redirection procedure to mozillateam-community on mozillateam membership page" was for asac
<fta> let's keep this open unless someone wants to do it
<Jazzva> I suppose this is the MT membership page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/GettingInvolved , section "Joining the team"
<Jazzva> Anyone willing to document it :)?
<Jazzva> hmm... if no one applies I'll see to do it later, if asac won't...
<fta> that's politics, i pass
<fta> Jazzva, ok, we'll poll asac.
<Jazzva> ok... then we're ready for the next agenda item?
<fta> what's next?
<Jazzva> 2nd item: Bug work
<Jazzva> Notes: There is way too many bugs on our packages: propose one day a week everyone works on bugs
<Jazzva> ok... so, let's get few options set now, so we can decide on the final day when we get in touch with asac and gnomefreak...
<fta> i remember asac worked with the bug squad a few weeks ago
<Jazzva> fta, what do you mean?
<fta> iirc, he wants the bug squad team to take care of the triaging as much as possible
<fta> i guess we need asac here
<Jazzva> mhm... so we need to see this with asac. (I thought we're gonna work on that)
<fta> it's mostly described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook
<Jazzva> and it's pretty much done. the only thing we need is to document how to forward bugs upstream
<fta> if we still have too many bugs after that, then we need to setup a mozilla bug day
<Jazzva> ok... than not much to do on this now...
<fta> right
<fta> next
<Jazzva> 3rd item: is libflashsupport really needed
<Jazzva> Notes: libflashsupport only causes crashes and should be removed from repos IMO
<XioNoX> in my mind, yes :D
<Jazzva> heh :)...
<fta> it's a pulseaudio + nonfree flash problem
<Jazzva> are there any positive sides of libflashsupport?
<XioNoX> if libflashsupport is not installed, we can play music only from 1 source
<ogra> it makes sound work with pulse
<fta> libflashsupport was no longer installed by default in hardy. something pulled it back in recently. asac complained.
<ogra> libflashsupport is needed for flash <9 if you want to play any sound from it through pulse
<ogra> err
<ogra> <10 sorry
<XioNoX> yep
<ogra> hardy ships flash 9
<fta> (i know)
<ogra> adobe did sme changes to their playback protocol shortly before we released
<ogra> which make libflashsupport crash occasionally
<ogra> nothing you can do about that without having the flash source
<ogra> which we dont
<Jazzva> so it's either no sound or crashing... right?
<ogra> ine thing to consider would be to upgrade hardy to flash 10 and drop libflashsupport, but that violates SRU policy
<ogra> *one
<Jazzva> ogra, yep... that's what I thought, but then ditched it because of policy violation
<fta> well, in intrepid, it's possible to have sound in flash without this lib, providing a good p-a setup,
<ogra> probably something to bring in front of the TB
<Jazzva> fta, that's true... so we can possibly drop libflashsupport in intrepid...
<Jazzva> (sound in flash works for me)
<ogra> right, intrepid uses flash 10
<ogra> lennart (pa upstream and libflashsupport upstream) had some words with adobe
<ogra> and they actually listened
<ogra> but that still doesnt solve it for hardy
<fta> it works for me too (in intrepid) but there's a race for the dsp with other programs. i had to use the alsa-lib from crimson.
<Volans> sorry but I have to go now... come back later, good meeting
<fta> so... no cons for removal in intrepid, only pros ?
 * ogra already requested libflashsupport removal 
<Jazzva> fta, I guess for now...
<ogra> (note that i used maintain it)
<Jazzva> ogra, where?
<ogra> removal you mean ?
<Jazzva> yep
<ogra> from intrpid
<ogra> its not needed anymore since we have flash 10 there
<Jazzva> and where did you requested it :)? a bug report?
<Jazzva> what bug number? :)
<ogra> which breaks with libflashsupport installed
<ogra> i talked with colin about it
<XioNoX> normally flash10 has improved the sound support, working fine for me without libflash
<ogra> doesnt really need a bug report
<Jazzva> ah... ok
<ogra> dont worry, it will be gone soon, every package i dont have to care for frees up my time for more important stuff ;)
<Jazzva> good :)
<fta> ok, good. next ?
<Jazzva> and I suppose we're done with this, too...
<Jazzva> 4th item: Other business
<fta> is there something ?
<Jazzva> If anyone has to talk about any item, let's do it now :)
<fta> i don't have anything
<Jazzva> Well, I suppoe we're done then :)
<Jazzva> *suppose
<fta> who's volunteering for the minutes ?
<Jazzva> I'll write them...
<fta> Jazzva, thank you
<Jazzva> No problem :)
<fta> we'll brief asac (or he'll read the channel logs)
<Jazzva> Well, thank you all for attending the meeting. I suppose we done as much as we could. We will finish the rest in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<Jazzva> See you there ;)
<fta> thank you all for attending. see you next time, and visit us in #ubuntu-mozillateam if anything comes up in the meantime.
<fta> bye.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Aug 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Aug 20:00 UTC: Maryland LoCo IRC | 07 Aug 12:00 UTC: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 07 Aug 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Java Team | 08 Aug 00:00 UTC: Americas Board | 08 Aug 04:00 UTC: Ubuntu MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-27
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<anux> low hggdh
<pleia2> ok folks, time for the Ubuntu Community Learning Team meeting :)
<bodhi_zazen> yea
<bodhi_zazen> who is here ?
<pleia2> the Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<bodhi_zazen> are you willing to chair pleia2 ?
 * DougieRichardson waves
<popey> o/
<pleia2> sure, but I don't know how to use MootBot :)
<pleia2> hehe
<popey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:03. The chair is popey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<popey> #endmeeting
<bodhi_zazen> Want to learn fast ?
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:03.
<popey> like that
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:03. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> ok, I will try ;)
<pleia2> doctormo said he'd be here, so hopefully he'll turn up
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<pleia2> cprofitt is still on vacation I think
<pleia2> Vantrax might just not be awake yet
<pleia2> but I think we can get started with discussion anyway
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure
<bodhi_zazen> \o/ pleia2
<pleia2> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure
<pleia2> ok, so this is the awesome document that bodhi_zazen took the time to write up
<bodhi_zazen> I put up some general ideas and would like some feedback / suggestions
<bodhi_zazen> preferably on wiki so people who are not at this meeting can be involved
<popey> shall we break it down point by point?
<pleia2> popey: yeah, I think so
<bodhi_zazen> any way you all like =)
<pleia2> so lets do this with topic
<pleia2> initial considerations
<pleia2> I agree that we should track membership with launchpad
<popey> indeed
<popey> that makes total sense
<pleia2> the page also suggests yearly renewals
<pleia2> I know the ubuntumembers team allows self renewals, is that an option in LP?
<popey> most other teams are two-years
<popey> it is, yes pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> yes pleia2
<pleia2> I think once someone is accepted we should allow them to renew themselves, instead of going through a process
<popey> agreed
<bodhi_zazen> 2 years is a long time for a young team =)
<popey> yeah
<bodhi_zazen> that is how it works pleia2
<pleia2> yeah, so maybe we start with 1 and revisit it later
<popey> I'm happy either way. I see no reason not to use 1 year
<bodhi_zazen> And if somebody goes mia, and their membership expires, that is a reason to send out an email or memo
<popey> i think you'd know they were AWOL before their membership expired
<bodhi_zazen> Is it OK if I edit these comments into the wiki page as we talk ?
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: oh, I just made an edit :) but sure - go for it
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure: General Membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure: General Membership
<popey> bodhi_zazen: might be easier at the end?
<bodhi_zazen> popey: I can edit as we go =)
<pleia2> so this is the next part of the wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> then it will be done
<bodhi_zazen> one advantage of not chairing
<pleia2> I'm always torn whether to have an Open or Moderated team for the general membership :)
<popey> I agree that either open or moderated, not restricted
<pleia2> maybe do Moderated, with very basic requirements for membership? I don't want people to feel like they need to jump through hoops to get involved
<DougieRichardson> 99999997oipk[]]#
<pleia2> hello DougieRichardson's cat!
 * DougieRichardson got a new kitten - its nosey
<pleia2> :)
<bodhi_zazen> what are the minimal requirements pleia2 ?
<bodhi_zazen> do we want a signed CoC on LP for example ?
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: I liked your meet&greet, sign CoC
<bodhi_zazen> anything more then a meet & greet ?
<pleia2> maybe we can put forward requirements for the "meet & greet" though, like having people introduce themselves and give us an idea of their skills and goals
<bodhi_zazen> Who and how will membership be determined beyond that ?
<pleia2> I've found that knowing the skills that people have goes a long way to making a team work - even if they wander off, I still have their skill list and can email them and say "hey, something came up and we need you!"
<pleia2> I think we pretty much accept anyone who does that step
<bodhi_zazen> Introduce yourself to the team and give us an idea of your interests, skills, and how you see yourself working with the team.
<bodhi_zazen> How is that for now ?
<popey> i do have one concern though
<pleia2> popey: sure
<popey> there was one team that used to vet their members and it ended up with people not being let in because one person didn't like the look of them
<bodhi_zazen> I would suggest a signed CoC, as we will be holding members to those rules =)
<popey> I worry that this can happen with moderated teams
<popey> i would just like to be sure that we are a welcoming team primarily
<bodhi_zazen> +1 popey , but really that is unlikely here as I do not think any of the leaders wants that to happen
<DougieRichardson> Conversely open teams are susceptible to spam accounts
<popey> of course DougieRichardson
<bodhi_zazen> spam and "bad behavior"
<popey> and idlers :)
<popey> I am a member of some teams I have not done anything in/for
<DougieRichardson> and bragging right collectors
<popey> I'm sure a lot of others are too
<pleia2> so I think we want to never "reject" people, they sit in the moderation queue until they follow the meet-n-greet directions that will be clearly spelled out on the LP page
<popey> yes
<popey> ok, so long as we dont keep people waiting
<pleia2> for now, I think the 5 team board members will be admins, we're all pretty active
<bodhi_zazen> Should we vote on moderated vs open ?
<popey> i agree moderated is the way to go
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: I think we want to wait on votes until next meeting
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<popey> just so long as we are vigilant not to lose potentially keen people or become to harsh not to let people in
<pleia2> this meeting we should just iron out what we want to do, give others opportunity to weigh in (since 3/5 of board are missing)
<pleia2> popey: agreed
<pleia2> ok, so we also need to decide *how* this meet-n-greet takes place
<DougieRichardson> with five admins that shouldn't be an issue - you're going to notice if someone keeps rejecting members.
<pleia2> I don't want to ask people to mail the mailing list, that's a bit intimidating, archived in mailman forever :)
<pleia2> some people are a bit irc-shy
<pleia2> so maybe do something like: introduce yourself on list, in IRC, or to the board members whose email addresses are...
<bodhi_zazen> no pleia2 I think keep it as general as possible =)
<DougieRichardson> I'd say mailing list intro
<bodhi_zazen> I like IRC, give a chance to really interact =)
<pleia2> introducing myself on a mailing list is scary :)
<popey> I'd say offer them choices
<popey> irc happy people can do so via irc
<DougieRichardson> it works fine on most teams, it would also assist in avoiding popey's scenario because team members can see the intro and whether they were accepted
<bodhi_zazen> I am OK with mailing list or other means, we could start a forums thread for example =)
<popey> mailing list people can do so via mail
<DougieRichardson> ml that is
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: we don't have a forum!
<pleia2> do we? hehe
<bodhi_zazen> I am fairly sure we could make at least a sticky on the Ubuntu forums =)
<pleia2> ah, value of a forum is something to consider
<bodhi_zazen> If you would like a specific sub section I can put in a request, although to be honest such things tend not to be used much
<pleia2> yeah
 * pleia2 makes note of DougieRichardson's comments
<pleia2> good point, something to consider
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure: Roles
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure: Roles
<bodhi_zazen> wait please =)
<pleia2> oh sorry :)
<bodhi_zazen> what about signed CoC ?
<pleia2> yeah, we should require that
<pleia2> and be ready to help anyone with gpg who wants to sign it
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<bodhi_zazen> can add a link to the final wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> and help on irc
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhi_zazen> what about the process, how are new members approved ?
<bodhi_zazen> or do you want to defer that discussion ?
<pleia2> defer, I think
<bodhi_zazen> thank yoo
<pleia2> I'd like to get some other thoughts on this
<pleia2> ok, so Roles?
<bodhi_zazen> I think that covers general membership
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> ok, so I'm wondering the value of creating sub-teams for Roles
<bodhi_zazen> yea, sub teams have advantages and disadvantages
<bodhi_zazen> Once (if) this team grows it is bound to happen though pleia2
<pleia2> I tend to prefer having a wiki page showing who is doing what, rather than LP tracking it, unless the LP resources are actually useful in some way to the specific subteam, and not of use to the whole team
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<bodhi_zazen> LP is overkill unless the sub team grows larger then life
 * pleia2 nods
<bodhi_zazen> I think all we can do today is discuss very general things
<pleia2> as for the roles themselves, if we're not tracking them in LP I'm not sure how important it is putting people into "teacher" "admin" etc categories is
<bodhi_zazen> minimal time commitments I think would help
<bodhi_zazen> and I think signing teh leadership Coc
<pleia2> like, if you want to be a website admin, please have an hour or so per week you can devote?
<pleia2> is there a way to sign the leadership coc?
<bodhi_zazen> Other then that we need to wait as roles are not defined yet, that should be the next step, and I know there are many ideas on this topic
<pleia2> yeah
<bodhi_zazen> not yet pleia2 , but my understanding is there will be a way to track it in LP soon
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> so I think the board certainly should be required to sign the leadership coc
<pleia2> so for roles, I think it depends upon their "leadershipness" within the team
<pleia2> but I think that's as far as we can get on this now
<pleia2> we might even shelve this bit until the project is rolling more and we start needing to define separate parts of the project
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: anything to add before we move on?
<bodhi_zazen> Ok, as a small point of order, take a look at the comments I committed to the wiki page =)
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure#preview
<bodhi_zazen> no pleia2 , thank you
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: looks great!
<pleia2> ok, shall we quickly discuss moderation?
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure: Moderation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure: Moderation
<pleia2> now honestly, this is not something I encounter a need for a lot, bodhi_zazen as the beginners team leader I think you do more than I :)
<bodhi_zazen> For now we cna simply defer moderation to the board
<pleia2> I agree
<pleia2> and your comments in this section made a lot of sense - get people to try to resolve it themselves first
<bodhi_zazen> I seem to have skills in moderating and am willing to perform this as needed
<pleia2> maybe a board member step in and have a private chat with someone if there is a problem
<bodhi_zazen> I think keep it as general as possible, nothing more then the Coc
<bodhi_zazen> Over time people may comment on adding this or that
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> and if they don't agree with moderation, I think the typical route of going to the community council is appropriate
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<bodhi_zazen> resolve on their own
<bodhi_zazen> bring to member(s) of the council
<bodhi_zazen> full council
<bodhi_zazen> and CC as a last resort ?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> like in most teams, I don't see it ever getting that far
<pleia2> anything else on moderation?
<bodhi_zazen> no =)
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure: Elections
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure: Elections
<pleia2> probably need to defer this :)
<pleia2> I'd say 2 years, people nominate themselves or others, we do a vote - anyone on team can vote
<popey> I'd say initially no need for vote
<popey> i think the people have pretty much selfselected
<pleia2> well, we have a board right now, which we'll probably keep for a while
<pleia2> unless one of us gets a life or something :)
<bodhi_zazen> I think keep the current structure and set the stage for future
<popey> yes
 * pleia2 nods
<popey> only need for a vote would be if people stand down or people get restless
<pleia2> yeah
<bodhi_zazen> I think it would be good to have 1 member stay 3 years for continuity (if all the positions are vacated or change)
<popey> i initiated a vote for leadership in -uk loco not because I didnt want to do it, but because I wanted someone else to have a go
<bodhi_zazen> well popey I think it is good to change leadership from time to time, give everybody a chance to burn out =)
<popey> and I think that is sometimes necessary to "freshen up" a team
<popey> heh
<popey> spread the burn around :)
<bodhi_zazen> yep
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Team Structure: Additional thoughts?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Structure: Additional thoughts?
<pleia2> so I think we're going to wrap this up for now
<pleia2> additional topics we should explore and add to the wiki?
<popey> can i mention one more thing?
<popey> the doc team is having a meeting on sunday, and we'll likely be talking about screencats, and the role they have to play in docs, so it might be useful to have someone / multiple people from -learning there.
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<pleia2> oh excellent
<pleia2> popey: can you drop a note to the list with the meeting time and that info?
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to thank you all for discussing this *dry* topic of team structure
<Vantrax|Work> hi guys, sorry I missed most of the meeting >.< Had to see a dentist
<bodhi_zazen> I find it really helps build a team though, gives new members something to consider, make us look cohesive
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: thanks for writing up such a great draft! :)
<popey> sure pleia2
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:51.
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
 * DougieRichardson waves goodnight
<pleia2> night!
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Structure#preview
<popey> o/
<bodhi_zazen> yes popey ?
<popey> that was a wave :)
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
 * DougieRichardson waves night
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-28
<lifeless> I'm here, may be a few minutes late to swtch over at the right time
<coolbhavi> lifeless, hello
<lifeless> hi
<coolbhavi> for reapplying as ubuntu member this is the channel to attend the meet.. Am I right?
<lifeless> this is the channel membership board meetings are held in yes
<lifeless> if you were a member but let it lapse I think you can just reactivate it over the web
<coolbhavi> okay
<coolbhavi> lifeless, mine is another 3 months down for lapsing but since I have holidays now I have reapplied
<coolbhavi> after a week from now college term starts and I ll be occupied
<coolbhavi> :)
<popey> you dont need to re-attend a meeting coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> popey, then? reactivation?
<popey> just re-activiate your own account
<popey> launchpad will email you when it's about to run out i think
<coolbhavi> popey, just like a team wherein members are invited to activate themselves after the period gets over
<popey> yes
<coolbhavi> am I getting it right?
<coolbhavi> okay thanks
<coolbhavi> :)
<coolbhavi> then I ll remove my name
<coolbhavi> off the wiki
 * persia peers about
<lifeless> hai
<TheMuso> Hi all.
<persia> So, without coolbhavi, do we have anything else on the agenda?
<freeflying> persia: I was invited here, not sure if it is
<persia> Excellent.  That's an item then.
<persia> we would do best to wait for elky to say something and amachu to appear though.
<amachu> hi
<TheMuso> Hey amachu.
<amachu> ten minutes gone
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi
<amachu> persia: elky: Hi
<persia> amachu, Hey.  So the agenda is empty, but you invited freeflying.
<amachu> and lifeless: Hey
<amachu> persia: I had invited him for last meeting, and I couldn't turn out for, posted a reminder to him
<amachu> freeflying is ZhengPengHou?
<freeflying> amachu: yes
<amachu> freeflying: Welcome!
<freeflying> amachu: thanks
<amachu> freeflying: were you available for last meeting?
<TheMuso> Afaicr he was here.
<persia> Indeed, although quiet.
<lifeless> hi amachu
<amachu> persia: Yes, I didn't add that to agenda, but had mentioned in the reminder sent to the list last time
<amachu> lifeless: Yes.
<amachu> persia: so shall take up this meet to take his consent to be part of the team?
<amachu> persia: elky: lifeless: What do you all feel?
<persia> Sure, if we're doing it in a meeting.
<TheMuso> I have no thoughts/feelings one way or another. I haven't really seen what he has been up to in the community.
<amachu> elky: are you there?
<amachu> persia: I hope this doesn't need a quorum and majority here :-)
<amachu> freeflying: We would like to take your consent to be part of Asia Oceania Membership Board.
<amachu> I second persia's nomination in this regard
<freeflying> amachu: its my pleasure
<amachu> lifeless: elky: opinions?
<amachu> hey this has been pending for a long time..
<amachu> freeflying: great!
<amachu> persia: comments?
<persia> None not already expressed.
<persia> Note that I'm not sure we are authorised to extend ourselves.  Our role may be to send a recommendation to the CC.
<amachu> persia: I hope we took that to CC way back, and got it approved for a 2+
<persia> amachu, Approved to grow, yes.  Approved to decide who is approved, I'm not sure.
<persia> I don't say we aren't, just that I'm not sure.
<lifeless> I'm for increasing the board size
<lifeless> and the primary thing board members need, IMO, is the ability to understand the requirements we're looking for and assess candidates
<lifeless> I have no idea whether freeflying has this or not :)
<persia> How do we determine that?
<lifeless> no idea
<amachu> I hope CC will nod. I will put it to CCs and freeflying's willingness
<amachu> persia: Now that freeflying has agreed, I feel we will refer it to CC and recommend his inclusion
<amachu> Will that be fine?
<lifeless> works for me
<persia> Fine by me
<amachu> Thanks
<amachu> freeflying: thanks for nodding to be part of the Team. We will keep you updated on CCs decision.
<freeflying> amachu: np :), I will be delight to take this kind of reponsebility
<persia> OK.  Do we have anything else to discuss?
<amachu> freeflying: thank you for turning out today.
<TheMuso> I don't
<amachu> I don't have any
<amachu> lifeless: ?
<elky> sorry all. only just got home
<lifeless> nope
<elky> hi freeflying :)
<persia> Shall we adjourn, unless elky has anything?
<amachu> elky: Do you have something to say?
<freeflying> elky: hi
<elky> persia, i'm trying to catch up on 2 concurrent meetings. did we vote on something?
<persia> elky, Two items came up for discussion, and were agreed by consensus.  1: we'll refer freeflying to the CC as a candidate for this board, and 2: we're done.
<elky> persia, yay for first. yay for second :)
 * persia goes off in search of food
<persia> Have a good evening all.
<amachu> freeflying Thanks for joining and thank you everyone for participating
<amachu> bye bye
<freeflying> amachu: np, have a nice night
<StevenK> Right, so let's start this thing
<StevenK> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:03. The chair is StevenK.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * ogra wouldnt mind if we skipped actually, was there even an announcement ?
<ogra> i cant remember seeing one
<StevenK> Yeah, I can't either.
<ogra> We'll be having the usual IRC meeting on #ubuntu-meeting, on
<ogra> Tueday 2009-07-21 at the new time 13:00 UTC.
<plars> that was back on the 17th
<ogra> thats the last one NCommander sent out
<plars> right
<StevenK> [vote] Skip the meeting
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Skip the meeting.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
 * StevenK grins
<plars> ha
<ogra> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<StevenK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from StevenK. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paulliu> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from paulliu. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ogra> davidm, ?
<dyfet> 1
<davidm> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from davidm. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bjf> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bjf. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<plars> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from plars. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<davidm> dyfet, you need to add a plus
<dyfet> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dyfet. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<StevenK> #endvote
<StevenK> Hm
<davidm> [endvote]
<StevenK> Oh, right
<StevenK> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
<StevenK> Right, so it seems we skip the meeting. :-)
 * ogra applauds 
<ogra> so much democracy in this team :)
<StevenK> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:07.
<mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk,sabdfl: ping
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> I haven't been able to reach cjwatson or Keybuk yet
<sabdfl> a lot on the agenda
<mdz> Colin is at DebConf, but I thought he would still be here
<mdz> Colin's phone rings to voicemail
<cjwatson> hello
<cjwatson> sorry, I was engrossed in something else
<cjwatson> Keybuk texted me to say he'd miss the start
<mdz> cjwatson: oh, hi
 * Keybuk is here now too
<mdz> perfect
<cjwatson> was busy with multiarch impl details :)
<Keybuk> randa called me as I was logging in
<mdz> Keybuk: did you record any actions from the previous meeting?
<cjwatson> let's skip my archive reorg item this week, I've done nothing due to alpha-3 feature work and then debconf
<Keybuk> mdz: I do not recall ACTION items, reading the notes now
<Keybuk> oh, yes there were
<mdz> ok, we'll go ahead with the agenda then
<Keybuk> Colin was to set up interviews with developers
<mdz> Keybuk: oh, ok. please paste
<Keybuk> Jono was to provide another draft of the patent policy
<Keybuk> You were to review the seed lists Colin posted
<mdz> I did that
<cjwatson> interviews> I suck. I'm going to do that during the sprint
<jono> Keybuk, I have updated it
<cjwatson> mdz: oh, did you send mail about that? I must have missed it
<cjwatson> never mind, found it now
<mdz> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:14:04 +0100
<mdz> From: Matt Zimmerman <mdz@canonical.com>
<mdz> To: Colin Watson <cjwatson@ubuntu.com>
<mdz> Subject: Re: Initial package sets for archive reorganisation
<cjwatson> it's very tricky to extract the gnome stuff automatically, but I'll see what I can do
<mdz> jono: I'm having trouble tracking down that patent policy draft, did you send something to t-b@ about it?
<mdz> jono: I looked for it last week to review before the meeting, but didn't see it
<jono> mdz, no, I updated the wiki page
<jono> and I emailed the TB about it
<mdz> jono: I didn't see a mail, and therefore have not read it
<mdz> I've just scanned the changes, and they look fine
<mdz> I'm pretty sure I acked the previous draft
<mdz> jono: have you kept track of who has reviewed it so far?
<jono> mdz, I sent it on the 20th
<jono> mdz, yes I merged in changes from you and cjwatson
<mdz> cjwatson: Keybuk: sabdfl: have any of you reviewed the latest draft?
<Keybuk> I reviewed it and replied
<Keybuk> (21 July 10:16am)
<mdz> Keybuk: the 20 July version?
<cjwatson> I have not
<cjwatson> ... but I have now and I'm happy with the changes
<mdz> sabdfl: ?
<mdz> Keybuk: weird, I don't seem to have your mail either
<cjwatson> (https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Community/Development/PatentPolicy?action=diff&rev2=5&rev1=4)
<sabdfl> i was basically happy with the earlier version and haven't looked at the updated one
<cjwatson> I have Keybuk's mail
<mdz> sabdfl: do you want to give your blessing to the latest draft or do you need time to review it?
<sabdfl> looks fine to me now
<mdz> ok, shall we vote on it then?
<sabdfl> can do
<mdz> [VOTE] Accept the patent policy drafted by Jono as an official TB policy
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept the patent policy drafted by Jono as an official TB policy.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> sabdfl: Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Keybuk> sorry, was checking for sneaky changes ;)
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<mdz> #endvote
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<mdz> [ACTION] Matt to communicate the new patent policy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Matt to communicate the new patent policy
<mdz> [TOPIC] Nomination period ends for TB election
<MootBot> New Topic:  Nomination period ends for TB election
<mdz> Keybuk: you seem to be most on top of this
<jono> mdz, if you need any help with communicating it, let me know, happy to help
<Keybuk> right, we have received a number of nominations
<mdz> I've seen 4 nominations come in to the TB list
<Keybuk> some from the candidates themselves
<Keybuk> and some indirectly
<mdz> jono: thanks
<Keybuk> our next step should be to contact those individuals to see if they wish to stand
<cjwatson> we've had 5 nominations, by my count
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the extra one you've seen, was that just sent to you?
<mdz> cjwatson: ah, there was a new one I hadn't read yet
<cjwatson> Keybuk: no, it was sent to TB
<Keybuk> oh, no, I'd read that one too
<mdz> oh, I forgot to count myself, so 6
<cjwatson> 6?
<cjwatson> oh, I missed one too
<mdz> Keybuk: do you want to do that, or shall I?
<cjwatson> can we name names before the people have agreed to stand?
<cjwatson> let's make sure we have the right set of people
<mdz> cjwatson: I think we probably shouldn't
<sabdfl> is the list still private
<sabdfl> ?
<cjwatson> ok, I see one person who was nominated twice
<cjwatson> which may account for the discrepancy
<mdz> cjwatson: right, I have 6 nominations, 5 unique names
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<Keybuk> sabdfl: until we actually confirm with people who have been nominated that they wish to stand, I would say it should be private for now
<Keybuk> and confirm with you that you would accept their appointment if they were voted in, obviously ;-)
<cjwatson> I find it disappointing that we have no non-Canonical nominations
<mdz> I've just PMed the list to all of you to confirm
<cjwatson> confirmed
<mdz> Keybuk: ok, I'll do it
<Keybuk> mdz: oops, missed that
<mdz> [ACTION] Matt to contact TB nominees to confirm they wish to stand
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Matt to contact TB nominees to confirm they wish to stand
<Keybuk> yes, I think it's appropriate for you to do that
<mdz> [TOPIC] Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Developer application board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<Keybuk> the feedback from the MOTU Council and CC was positive
<Keybuk> we seemed to agree on the name Developer Membership Board
<Keybuk> I see no reason not to go ahead with this if everybody is in agreement
<mdz> I thought it was Membership Council
<Keybuk> mdz: Board in your mail of 17 July
<cjwatson> I heard board
<mdz> but if it's Board...whatever I agreed to in email
<cjwatson> but I really don't care :)
<mdz> whatever all of the others are called
<Keybuk> I kinda deliberately put Board in originally to reflect it was a TB-derived power not CC
<sabdfl> Board would be consistent with the CC's membership delegation
<mdz> Board it is
<Keybuk> I'm happy to take the ACTION to enact the LP changes and send out the announcements
<Keybuk> (and arrange mailing list changes, etc.)
<mdz> Keybuk: we already voted on this, right?
<mdz> or do we need to do that still?
<Keybuk> we did
<mdz> Keybuk: I couldn't find the vote, but I'll trust you on it
<mdz> so what's the next step to putting it into practice?
<Keybuk> we agreed the text and content on the ML
<Keybuk> we didn't have an IRC vote
<Keybuk> the next step is to put it into practice
<Keybuk> an LP team needs creating
<Keybuk> that team should become the admin of ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-dev replacing TB
<Keybuk> with TB as an admin of that team
<Keybuk> membership of that team should be set up
<Keybuk> a Mailing List for the team should be set up
<Keybuk> and some magic waved to make the TB mailing list public from now on, without opening up the current archives
<mdz> Keybuk: documentation updates?
<cjwatson> but specifically not admin of motu, presumably
<mdz>  processes/newmember or whatever, probably
<Keybuk> mdz: right, I'll hunt those down too
<Keybuk> cjwatson: indeed
<mdz> and also the MOTU wiki documentation
<mdz> jono: could your team help with that?
<cjwatson> since that's motu-council right now IIRC
<cjwatson> (sorry, my network connection is a bit slow right now)
<mdz> Keybuk: so will you take the action to do the necessary setup in LP etc.?
<jono> sorry just reading up, was sending a few mails
<cjwatson> oh, the TB is a co-administrator of motu together with motu-council
<cjwatson> so I suggest that the DMB should also replace the TB as co-admin of motu
<mdz> [ACTION] Scott to implement Developer Membership Board proposal (LP, mailing list, documentation, etc.)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Scott to implement Developer Membership Board proposal (LP, mailing list, documentation, etc.)
<nhandler> cjwatson: Just to be clear, even though they will be a co-admin, the MC will still continue to handle MOTU applications
<Keybuk> correct
<jono> mdz, yes, we can help with that
<jono> hi nhandler :)
<cjwatson> nhandler: yes
<mdz> [ACTION] Jono to see that documentation is updated to reflect the Developer Membership Board
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jono to see that documentation is updated to reflect the Developer Membership Board
<mdz> anything else on the DMB topic?
<mdz> [TOPIC] patent policy
<MootBot> New Topic:  patent policy
<mdz> already covered above, including vote
<mdz> [TOPIC] #
<mdz> Technical Board governance review (JonoBacon) - Outstanding Issues documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/JauntyAssessment
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mdz> [TOPIC] Technical Board governance review (JonoBacon) - Outstanding Issues documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/JauntyAssessment
<MootBot> New Topic:  Technical Board governance review (JonoBacon) - Outstanding Issues documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/JauntyAssessment
* nhandler changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs and
<mdz> let's just go through these one by one
<jono> we may be able to tend to these issues on the mailing list
<mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/JauntyAssessment
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/JauntyAssessment
<mdz> first is updating http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<mdz> somebody just needs to take an action to fix this up
<mdz> so far, I have 2 actions, scott has 1, colin has 1 (carried over), jono has 1
<sabdfl> where do we stand on the expansion of the TB?
<cjwatson> I have had absolutely no luck getting /community/processes/techboard fixed in the past
<cjwatson> the action needs to be newz2000's :P
<Keybuk> sabdfl: nominations received, mdz will contact them to confirm they wish to stand
<Keybuk> we'll then present the list to you
<sabdfl> i get that part ;-)
<cjwatson> we have exactly five nominations for five seats
<Keybuk> you acknowledge them/don't
<Keybuk> and then at the next TB meeting, voting opens for the seats
<cjwatson> do we still want to open five seats?
<Keybuk> and lasts for two weeks
<sabdfl> but i'm concerned that 5 nominations doesn't leave much room for a race and larger TB
<mdz> sabdfl,cjwatson: it was 6 seats
<jono> sabdfl, agreed
<cjwatson> or call for nominations again, more forcefully?
<mdz> oh, sorry, 5 open seats
<cjwatson> yes, the mail says 5 open
<jono> would it be possible for us to have seven nominations?
<Keybuk> I though it was 4 open seats?
<mdz> jono: there is no limit to the number of nominations; we can accept as many as we receive
<Keybuk> jono: we don't *have* seven people to nominate ;)
<cjwatson> I'd really like to have some non-Canonical nominations, and actually wanted to go through core-dev list and nominate some myself, but ran out of time ...
<mdz> jono: we simply haven't received very many
<jono> Keybuk, thats what I figured
<popey> If the nomination period was to be extended, I'd like to nominate a non-canonical person..
<mdz> perhaps the members of the TB would like to put forward more nominees
<cjwatson> popey: if you'd like to send it to technical-board@ *really* quickly*
<Keybuk> so we should agree on some points
<popey> done cjwatson
<Keybuk> - how many seats are open?
<popey> gah, bounced
<Keybuk> - who is retaining their seat?
<sabdfl> me!
<sabdfl> and colin
<Keybuk> sabdfl: then that reduces us to 3 open seats
<Keybuk> with 5 nominations
<sabdfl> that's not too bad, then
<cjwatson> err, four open seats, not 3
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I count 3
<jono> did we extend an invitation to all core-dev folks?
<Keybuk> no?
<cjwatson> the mail says we wanted to expand to six members total
<jono> as in, email them?
<cjwatson> sabdfl, me, +4
<popey> cjwatson: sent
<Keybuk> oh, I had 5 in my head
<mdz> sabdfl: my understanding from the previous meeting was that you were nominating yourself for re-election
<cjwatson> yes, I remembered that too ...
<sabdfl> i can do that too
<mdz> like Scott and I are
<sabdfl> sure
<mdz> so 6 seats total minus colin = 5 open seats
<cjwatson> oh, you didn't say actually, that explains the confusion
<cjwatson> I think the discussion went just past the end of the meeting slot
<mdz> Keybuk: I think we're clear on those two points. anything else?
<Keybuk> nope, sounds like we're clear
<mdz> so the only matter is that we'd like to have more nominations
<mdz> I suggest that the TB try to think of some, rather than just extending the nomination period and hoping for more
<jono> mdz, I am wondering if all the possible people who could be suitable for the TB know about the election
<Keybuk> jono: I mailed ubuntu-devel-announce ;)
<jono> which is why I was wondering if we should email all core-dev developers directly
<mdz> jono: it was on -devel-announce, on planet ubuntu, in UWN...
<sabdfl> we also don't know what the dynamic will be now that developer membership is being delegated
<sabdfl> hopefully, the TB becomes more tech-oriented than team-oriented
<sabdfl> a smaller group may be fine for that
<Keybuk> that's the plan :-)
<mdz> jono: I think it's more likely that people are too shy/modest/busy to nominate themselves, which is why I think the TB should come up with a couple
<sabdfl> so, we could roll with what we have and see how it goes
<jono> Keybuk, sure but I suspect many people miss announcements on -devel-announce
<jono> right
<Keybuk> jono: I think that developers missing announcements on the developer announcements mailing list are unlikely to be suitable for the TB
<sabdfl> if we have 5 seats and a Debian representative, that's quite large already
<Keybuk> sabdfl: 6 and a Debian representative
<sabdfl> 6 requires more nominations, 5 doesn't
<Keybuk> ok, fair point
<jono> Keybuk, I mainly think that because the announcement list gets updated infrequently and many people will filter it to a folder, so may never see the updated
<jono> updates
<mdz> sabdfl: 6 total seats, 5 open for this election
<popey> There wasn't a huge amount of time for nominations..
<mdz> popey: two weeks
<popey> during the holiday season..
<Keybuk> jono: it was, as mdz says, also sent to ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel-discuss, appeared in UWN and on Planet Ubuntu -- you'd have to be pretty deliberately *not* paying attention to miss it <g>
<jono> Keybuk, ok, no worries :)
<mdz> can we get back to the assessment now?
<cjwatson> I've sent another nomination to techboard
<mdz> we need a volunteer to fix the text on the website
<cjwatson> I will volunteer if I can have access
<mdz> [ACTION] Colin to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<mdz> next item is:Regarding input on key issues such as Pulseaudio, Mono and DX work:
<mdz> The TB should determine if they should offer this kid of input and how.
<cjwatson> how should I go about convincing the web team to let me? :)
<mdz> I think we implicitly agreed this by making the Mono position statement
<cjwatson> I guess I'll use my initiative ...
<sabdfl> cjwatson: i can clear a path
<mdz> cjwatson: and CC me
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<mdz> # Should the TB have a regular Call For Topics in the core-dev/MOTU developer community to discuss areas of interest/concern and advise and provide insight? This would help provide a function in the community in which the TB is pro-active as opposed to being reactive with topics of question or concern on an agenda.
<mdz> AFAIC, the fortnightly meeting is an implicit call for topics
<mdz> though I wouldn't mind if someone sent out an explicit one a few days prior to the meeting (just not me please)
<jono> mdz, I think we can better promote the use of the TB for this kind of discussion
<Keybuk> right
<sabdfl> why not generate a list and work through them at our leisure
<mdz> jono: can you set up a process to collect those topics for us?
<Keybuk> now we've devolved membership powers, we have an hour's meeting every week to discuss such topics
<Keybuk> and a ML
<Keybuk> ;)
<sabdfl> can we invite non-TB folks to join conversations that they are experts in?
<mdz> we have only 10 minutes left, and I actually need to leave 5 minutes early
<jono> mdz, I think the process for collecting the topics is to use the agenda page, but I think we can improve the messaging to the community that the TB can discuss key topics
<jono> I am happy to send that message out
<sabdfl> let's create space on the agenda page, and we choose the order / priority
<jono> sabdfl, a specific section would be good
<mdz> [ACTION] Jono to draft text to communicate the TB's willingness to review key topics submitted by the community
<jono> I am happy to set that up
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jono to draft text to communicate the TB's willingness to review key topics submitted by the community
<mdz> # The TB should provide a means of recording whether quorum can be maintained in meetings. If it becomes a problem, consider a discussion of solutions.
<Keybuk> it'd be nice to include that text on the website
<jono> Keybuk, agreed
<mdz> I'm not too concerned about quorum; this has very rarely been a problem in practice
<jono> Keybuk, I will get that done first and then mail cjwatson so he can add it when performing the other site update
<mdz> jono: sounds good
<cjwatson> I don't think we've had a quorum problem since I joined
<mdz> is anyone else concerned about quorum?
<Keybuk> indeed, Quorum issues have tended to be solved by SMS/Phone calls ;-)
<cjwatson> IIRC it was a problem when there were only 3
<mdz> jono: was this something raised specifically during the assessment?
<sabdfl> timezones in this group make it easier
<jono> mdz, it was
<jono> mdz, but I think it's rare enough that we don't need a process
<jono> lets review at the next UDS if there are quorum issues
<mdz> o
<mdz> k
<mdz> expansion of the board we already decided
<mdz> # TB to discuss whether there should be a place for a Debian representative on the board. While it could be argued that Colin Watson is a natural candidate here, it could be beneficial to have more Debian focused representative in that seat.
<Keybuk> I think Mark's suggestion of approaching the Debian Technical Committee seemed the right lines
<cjwatson> TC> I agree
<mdz> cjwatson: maybe you could talk to people at DebConf?
<jono> Keybuk, I was just about to saythe same thing
<cjwatson> remind me who the current chair is
<Keybuk> ftr, the current membership of the TC is
<Keybuk>  chairman Bdale Garbee
<Keybuk>      member Russ Allbery
<Keybuk>      member Don Armstrong
<Keybuk>      member Andreas Barth
<Keybuk>      member Ian Jackson
<Keybuk>      member Steve Langasek
<Keybuk>      member Manoj Srivastava
<cjwatson> I can certainly talk to bdale
<mdz> cjwatson: bdale
<jono> Bdale would be fantastic
<Keybuk> jono: however he is somewhat busy being fantastic at a thousand other things
<cjwatson> is this a "turn up every two weeks to a meeting" thing, or something lighter-weight?
<mdz> [ACTION] Colin to discuss with Bdale (Debian technical committee chair) about having a Debian representative on the Ubuntu TB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to discuss with Bdale (Debian technical committee chair) about having a Debian representative on the Ubuntu TB
<jono> Keybuk, lets see if he has the time
<mdz> cjwatson: I think they could afford to be somewhat less active than the Ubuntu members of the board, but am open to defining the role based on the desire of the individual to participate, and the needs of Debian
<mdz> that's the end of the recommendations
<cjwatson> ok
<mdz> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<Keybuk> Colin again, he volunteered this time but didn't ;)
<cjwatson> I think it's my turn isn't it?
<mdz> [ACTION] Colin to chair next TB meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Colin to chair next TB meeting
 * jono laughs
<cjwatson> erm, yeah, sorry about that :-(
<mdz> thanks, all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:55.
<jono> thanks everyone
<jono> :)
<cjwatson> latency here is sufficiently awful that I would have been a terrible chair anyway
<cjwatson> I'm relying on typeahead and a good memory ...
<jono> cjwatson, I thought your brain was actually directly connected to the Internet :)
<sabdfl> thanks all
<cjwatson> that would be SO FRUSTRATING
<jono> :)
<cjwatson> also plz to not be introducing security holes into my brain
<elky> aww!
 * elky puts the security hole away for another time.
 * Keybuk knows of a security hole in Colin's brain
 * Keybuk starts singing
<cjwatson> agadoo?
<Keybuk> mah-nah-mah-nah!
<jono> hehe
<jono> lets all DoS cjwatson :)
 * Keybuk pushes pineapple
 * Keybuk shakes the tree
<elky> can this be done while i can actually see his soul get haxXord?
 * Keybuk pushes pineapple again
 * Keybuk grinds coffee
 * hyperair stares at the scrollback and laughs
 * sabdfl is completely baffled
 * sabdfl *pineapple*?
<sabdfl> cheers all
<elky> Keybuk, your mission, if you should choose it, is to kindly differentially baffle our dictator.
 * mathiaz waves
<sommer> o//
<mathiaz> Has the TB meeting ended?
<jmdault> hello mathiaz
<hyperair> http://www.lyricsdownload.com/black-lace-agadoo-lyrics.html <-- this appears to be what the pineapple's all about =\
<popey> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> allright then - let's get the Ubuntu Server team meeting rolling
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:04. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090721
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU tracking on server-related packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU tracking on server-related packages
<mathiaz> So I've asked bdmurray about a script to get the list of bugs marked fixed released during a previous week
<mathiaz> he said he almost had such a script
<mathiaz> I need to follow up with him and see how and where we can run this script
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to follow up with bdmurray about the list of fixed released bugs related to the ubuntu-server team.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to follow up with bdmurray about the list of fixed released bugs related to the ubuntu-server team.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on this topic?
<zul> are we going to review it every week at the meeting?
<zul> or should it be an automated email to the server mailing list?
<mathiaz> zul: let's start by a weekly review in this meeting
<mathiaz> zul: if this takes too much time, we can always move it to the mailing list
<zul> k
<mathiaz> anything else related to this topic?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Preparing a 2009 edition of the Server Survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Preparing a 2009 edition of the Server Survey
<mathiaz> nijaba wrote up a blog post about it: http://nicolas.barcet.com/drupal/en/preparing-2009-server-survey
<mathiaz> anything else to add to this topic?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu HA team: Cluster stack update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu HA team: Cluster stack update
<mathiaz> neither RoAkSoAx nor ivoks seem to be around
<mathiaz> on a related note Debian has moved to DKMS for the drbd package
<mathiaz> and the latest version of drbd has been synced in karmic this morning
<mathiaz> congratulation to ivoks for driving this packaging effort in both Debian and Ubuntu
 * sommer cheers
<mathiaz> ivoks told me yesterday he was now focusing on packaging the pacemaker+openais+... stack for karmic
<mathiaz> anything else to say on the cluster stack?
<mathiaz> it seems not. Let's move on.
<mathiaz> That's all I had from last week minutes.
<mathiaz> Anything else to add related to last week meeting?
<mathiaz> seems not - let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Mysql 5.1 in karmic main
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mysql 5.1 in karmic main
<mathiaz> Debian unstable saw the upload of 5.1 into unstable last weekend
<mathiaz> and thus transition to libmysql16 has started in unstable.
<mathiaz> The question is whether we should do the same in karmic now?
<zul> i dont see why not
<mathiaz> The two blockers I had when I looked at moving 5.1 into main a couple of week ago were:
<mathiaz> 1. the test suite was not enabled during build time, while it was in 5.0
<mathiaz> 2. the cluster engine is not available in 5.1 while it is in 5.0
<zul> is there a reason why it was disabled?
<mathiaz> zul: because it wasn't successful?
<mathiaz> zul: because it wasn't successful.
<zul> pretty good reason
<mathiaz> zul: hm well - what are you refering to 1 or 2?
<zul> both probably
<mathiaz> For 2. one solution could be to add a check in pre and see if the ndb engine is used
<mathiaz> if so the upgrade would abort and suggest to remove mysql-server
<mathiaz> and leave mysql-server-5.0
<mathiaz> and leave mysql-server-5.0 installed on the system
<zul> sounds reasonable
<mathiaz> as transitionning from 5.0 to 5.1 in karmic main means that mysql-server would be provided by 5.1 instead of 5.0
<mathiaz> The kubuntu team also would like to move to 5.1 as it would simplify the packaging of amarok
<mathiaz> and it seems that we'd want to have 5.1 for the next LTS
<mathiaz> uploading 5.1 to main now would mean going through another library transition - I wonder if it's not too late in the release cycle
<zul> how many libraries are affected again?
<zul> if its alot then it would be just a matter of going to motu's saying we need help to transition mysql libraries to 5.1
<mathiaz> zul: well - not really - only packages in main would have to be transitioned in karmic
<mathiaz> zul: as we could keep 5.0 in universe for this release cycle
<zul> true
<mathiaz> zul: in debian there are around 160 pkg IIRC
<mathiaz> zul: but there isn't a difference between main and universe
<zul> but this would also be an opprotunity to help debian out as well
<mathiaz> I've check point 1 (test suite not enabled in 5.1) and it's not true anymore
<mathiaz> the test suite is run at build time IIUC
<mathiaz> so the only blocker I have is point 2 and we have a workaround for karmic.
<mathiaz> so I think the next step is to send an email to ubuntu-devel to discuss the transition to mysql 5.1 in main
<mathiaz> and file a MIR for 5.1
<mathiaz> which may take some time to get processed.
<zul> cool beans
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email to ubuntu-devel about moving 5.1 to main
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email to ubuntu-devel about moving 5.1 to main
<mathiaz> let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Cloud power management
<MootBot> New Topic:  Cloud power management
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything new on this front?
<kirkland> mathiaz: howdy o/
<kirkland> mathiaz: not much since last week, really
<kirkland> mathiaz: i expect that the functionality is basically done for karmic
<kirkland> mathiaz: and i've moved into test-mode
<mathiaz> kirkland: allright - feature complete, testing required.
<kirkland> mathiaz: yessir!
<mathiaz> kirkland: are you looking for specific hardware?
<mathiaz> kirkland: are there any test instructions?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, still looking for a rackable server that has S3 in /proc/acpi/sleep
<kirkland> if you are in possession of one of these, let me know :-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: are you focusing on hardware support testing or software testing?
<kirkland> mathiaz: software testing of PowerNap and PowerWake
<kirkland> mathiaz: i considered the work I did testing suspend/hibernate/resume in Jaunty to verify the hardware support
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'd suggest to talk to cr3 - he may have some hardware available
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay
<mathiaz> anything else to add to this topic?
<kirkland> mathiaz: nope, not really
<mathiaz> ok. Let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Gudie
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Gudie
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Guide
<mathiaz> sommer: ^^
<mathiaz> sommer: how is it going on this front?
<sommer> mathiaz: slowly but surely... been busier than normal with the day job and real life
<sommer> mathiaz: I think everything in the blueprint should get done though :)
<mathiaz> sommer: awesome - what are the deadlines?
 * RoAkSoAx waves
<mathiaz> sommer: has the doc team changed the milestones this release cycle?
<sommer> Doc Freeze is Oct 1st
<sommer> mathiaz: nope as far as I know the milestones are the same
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - keep up the good work!
<mathiaz> sommer: and ask around for some help
<mathiaz> sommer: since there is a list of items to be done on a wiki page (where?) people can pick up some tasks listed there.
<sommer> mathiaz: ya, I've been meaning to do a blog post about the new sections
<sommer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicServerGuide is the spec
<mathiaz> sommer: great!
<mathiaz> anything else to add on the topic of documentation?
<sommer> think that's it for me
<mathiaz> allright - let's move on then.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu HA team: Cluster stack update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu HA team: Cluster stack update
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: now that you're around - I've given a quick status update earlier in the meeting
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: did you get a chance to update the Roadmap?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHighAvailabilityTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: with a brief overview of what needs to be done
<RoAkSoAx> Well for now, we are just waiting for the Debian packages of pacemaker and heartbeat, since openais sis already in debian experimental, and corosync is about to reach it
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: awesome thanks.
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - and then all of these packages need to be synced in karmic?
<RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, yes
<mathiaz> ok - anything else to add related to the Cluster stack?
<RoAkSoAx> we are just gonna wait for debian packages, do our own tests and see if there are any other needed for Ubuntu. Other than that, those packages already contains our changes
<RoAkSoAx> and that would be it
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: great - keep up the good work.
<mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: and once the packages are in Ubuntu, I'd suggest to write up a blog post to ask for more testing
<mathiaz> let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> Anything else to add?
<jmdault> mathiaz: I'm back from vacation and resuming work on Asterisk
<mathiaz> jmdault: great!
<mathiaz> jmdault: are you up-to-date on what happened in Debian in the mean time?
<mathiaz> jmdault: (I'm not)
<jmdault> It's more work than I expected, I will have to work with Debian in making newer packages
<jmdault> mathiaz: nothing has changed on the Debian side. The dahdi drivers are still 2.0-rc5
<jmdault> But the final 2.0 are out from digium, and it fixes some kernel panics
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - is there a wiki page where the plans for Karmic are recorded/outlined?
<jmdault> mathiaz: not yet
<mathiaz> jmdault: it may be worth spending some time to write a short description of the plan for karmic
<mathiaz> jmdault: and get in touch with the debian team to work together.
<mathiaz> anything else to add before we wrap up?
<jmdault> mathiaz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration ?
<mathiaz> jmdault: looks like a good place
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
<sommer> +1
<mathiaz> allright then.
<mathiaz> see you all next week, same place, sime time.
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<Daviey> Gah!  missed the meeting
<bjf> Roll Call
 * manjo waves
<lieb> hi
 * ogasawara waves
 * rtg_ is herwe
 * apw waves
 * jjohansen waves
 * awe waves
 * cking is here
 * gnarl reports in for smb
<bjf> #startmeeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) Close Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) Close Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review
 * pgraner waves
<apw> That one is done ...
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (smb) Organise a sprint session on review of "Blueprint: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review"
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (smb) Organise a sprint session on review of "Blueprint: kernel-karmic-kernel-config-review"
<bjf> gnarl?
<gnarl> ok
<gnarl> sort of put it into a agena i think
 * amitk appears belatedly
 * rtg_ is really tired of reviewing configs.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw, rtg) Sync with J. Johansen before upload on AA enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw, rtg) Sync with J. Johansen before upload on AA enablement
<rtg_> bjf, done
<apw> It was determined that AA could be safely enabled and the Karmic kernel now has AA enabled by default.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: (apw) Close the 386 flavour task
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: (apw) Close the 386 flavour task
<apw> That is closed off
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned bugs - none so far for Alpha 4
<ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs (5 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-4
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> it looks like the one that concerns are team has been Implemented by Tim (Karmic kernel flavours)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-hwdb-workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> bjf: nothing new to add for hwdb
<rtg_> ogguess I should update its status
<rtg_> ogasawara, ^^
<ogasawara> rtg_: it's already marked as Implemented
<rtg_> ogasawara, indeed it is.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-kms (apw)
<apw> Testing ongoing, results generally good.  Suspend issues now seem resolved.  Tracking a couple of upstream patches which are expected to land in 2.6.31-rc5.  Pulled Intel and ATI Radeon KMS -next branches and pushed to KMS PPA for xorg-edgers testing.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg_> no progress, see last week
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-review-of-non-upstreamed-code (smb)
<gnarl> no progress since last week
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-android (coolony)
<rtg_> apw, what about drbd? ivoks said there is a DKMS package for it
<bjf> no progress since last week (speaking for coolony)
<apw> rtg_, the original source is dkms aware ... we have an updated version in ubuntu/ for now
<apw> noone has stepped up to own a dkms package to my knowledge
<rtg_> apw, right, its up-rev from the DKMS version
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-sponsoring-staging-drivers (smb)
<gnarl> stalled
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<apw> [ACTION] apw, check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel
<manjo> plan on doing a laptop testing session at the dublin meet
<cking> tested those images yet? :-)
<manjo> put together a test plan on testing
<manjo> will be testing kms & suspend/resume
<manjo> cking, still downloading
<cking> 'k
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-wifi (rtg)
<rtg_> making progress on rfkill
<rtg_> there are some kernel patches in the pipeline that'll help acpi-support
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt (amitk)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-better-power-mgt (amitk)
<amitk> no progress since last week
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> closed out my clone regression
<jjohansen> still have ecryptfs regression to fix 359338
<apw> jjohansen, do we already have the clone fix in the batch i added last week
<apw> or is there more coming?
<jjohansen> more coming, I am still testing through the x cases on the clone but it all looks good so far
<rtg_> jjohansen, have you had time to think about the next merge window?
<apw> most excellent, thats the last regression i believe from the test suite
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk, bjf)
<jjohansen> rtg_: yeah, a little
<amitk> first set of patches (from Jaunty) was integrated into Karmic and a kernel is available in the archive
<bjf> Freescale stuff for me is in place, nothing new, waiting for next patch drop
<bjf> should be this week I think (maybe next)
<amitk> working on the second set of patches (130) now. Hope to finish them by end of this week
<amitk> also working with ogra to figure out why DVI doesn't work on Karmic
<amitk> DVI on babbage 2 boards, that is
<amitk> that's it
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Union Mount Solution (apw)
<apw> aufs2 testing on livecd seems good.  Pulled in updated aufs2 sources from aufs mainline bringing in a number of bug fixes, uploaded for testing.
<apw> Activity ramping back up on vfs union mounts, but not going to be anywhere near .31 ready
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb/gnarl)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb/gnarl)
<gnarl> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.77 (security)
<gnarl> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.56 (updates)
<gnarl>             Planning new proposed upload to get Acer Aspire Ones booting
<gnarl>             (unfortunately got delayed with that one)
<gnarl> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.35 (security)
<gnarl>             2.6.27-14.36 (proposed+security)[21] with 5/24 verifications
<gnarl> * Jaunty:   2.6.28-13.45 (security)
<gnarl>             2.6.28-14.46 (proposed)[20] with 4/15 verifications
<gnarl>             ABI bumping versions of LRM and LBM waiting as well
<gnarl> No progress on verifications for Intrepid and Jaunty. This delays the
<gnarl> move to updates for those.
<apw> gnarl, is there something we can do to poke the reporters
<apw> on the bugs which need verification?  perhaps getting the arsenal to do it automatically?
<apw> ogasawara, ?
<gnarl> probably nothhing more thann go to the bugs and repeat
<gnarl> but they get a notification normally
<ogasawara> yup, I could have a script stock reply them to test
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<gnarl> Right, maybe we could "remind" them after 7 days
<apw> lets talka bout it at sprint
<apw> Kamic now has initial ARM imx51 support.  AppArmor has been updated fixing a number of regressions, it is also enabled by default.`
<rtg_> -rc5 is imminent
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: ARM (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: ARM (amitk, bjf)
<amitk> nothing else to add. This Status should perhaps be removed
<bjf> Marvell has applied their patches to a 2.6.31-rc4 git repo, I'm reviewing the patches and will request a pull soon.
<bjf> I don't think they started with a Karmic tree but a stock 2.6.31-rc4 so there will be a little work for me to do
<apw> hurry else we'll have moved to -rc5 ;)
<bjf> this is another HUGH patchset (250+ patches)
 * apw goes bling
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Netbook (sconklin, apw)
<apw> blind
<sconklin> No new status since last week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> 5 regression-potential and 1 regression-release bugs were added this week
<ogasawara> one has been resolved with the 2.6.31-4 kernel and another will likely be resolved after the next upload.
<ogasawara> I'll also start joining apw and smb on their weekly regression bug call
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Highlight is we closed 31 bugs from the weekly kernel bug list.
<ogasawara> Refer to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090721.html for the complete bug day stats.
<ogasawara> I'm going to send an announcement that we'll cancel next week's bug day since everyone will be at the sprint
<gnarl> good point
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
 * ogasawara raises hand
<ogasawara> The issue of unwatched packages (ie no one is subscribed to the bug mail) was recently brought to my attention.
<ogasawara> Specifically one package kernel-wedge was thought to be the responsibility of the kernel team but is currently unwatched.
<apw> which packages you thinking of
<ogasawara> Is it okay if the kernel team is subscribed to this package?  It currently has 1 bug so is extremely low traffic
<apw> i had a look at kernel-wedge and there is only one bug there
<gnarl> so it is quite safe to add
<rtg_> ogasawara, I really want cjwatson to own kernel-wedge
<apw> that seems appropriate to me
<ogasawara> rtg_: ack, I'll propose he be subscribed then
<rtg_> kernel-wedge is all about producing udebs for the installer
<bjf> anyone else have anything they want to bring up?
<cking> we could do with some kernel team know-how on kernel wedge
<rtg_> cking, I know enough to be scared of it
<cking> agree
<rtg_> its real quirky
<bjf> going....
<bjf> going .....
<bjf> Are we going to have an IRC meeting next week? (Sprint week)
<rtg_> bjf, I suggest we cancel it
<cking> +1 on that
<apw> seems reasonable to me
<bjf> ok no meeting next week
<gnarl> +1
<bjf> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair: Colin King
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair: Colin King
<cking> ack
<apw> and two weeks to forget :)
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:30.
<cking> I won't!
<apw> will
<cjwatson> ogasawara: I've subscribed ubuntu-installer to kernel-wedge
<cjwatson> that's better than me personally
<ogasawara> cjwatson: great, thanks!
<bodhi_zazen> 5 min =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-29
<Rocket2DMn> Let's get this show rolling
<bodhi_zazen> everybody here ?
 * w4ett here
<starcraftman> I'm here, just kinda quiet.
 * jgoguen is here
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<bodhi_zazen> First thank you all for coming, and it is awesome to see the team become more active
<bodhi_zazen> don't forget to welcome new members
<bodhi_zazen> swoody is not here
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Folding @ Home
<MootBot> New Topic:  Folding @ Home
<Rocket2DMn> we'll postpone that topic, he's on vacation
<bodhi_zazen> any comments about folding at home ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: That is for the 8/11 meeting
<Rocket2DMn> I don't even know what it is, I thought he was going to enlighten us
<nhandler> It says that in the What field
<bodhi_zazen> I told swoody we would discuss it, he contacted me in advance
<Silver_Fox_> how is it related to ubuntu or the beginners team?
<bodhi_zazen> so it is open for discussion today, sorry for the confusion
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure Silver_Fox_ , some people like the priject =)
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments re: folding at home then ?
<Rocket2DMn> can somebody please explain what it is?
<Silver_Fox_> i am not against the project bodhi_zazen,  i just query what it is required of us to do
<starcraftman> Uh, what exactly are we to discuss though? origami? I'm on the folding team, but I don't know what swoody wanted to discuss.
<bodhi_zazen> http://folding.stanford.edu/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://folding.stanford.edu/
<bodhi_zazen> I think swoody wants to increase awareness is all
<Rocket2DMn> oh it comes from the farm.  Then no thanks :)
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Migrate Mailing lilsts - nhandler
<MootBot> New Topic:  Migrate Mailing lilsts - nhandler
<nhandler> [LINK] https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners/msg00031.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-beginners/msg00031.html
<nhandler> That is the email I sent to the list
<nhandler> Pretty much, now that we aren't only a forum team, we really should have our list on lists.ubuntu.com, which also offers many more features than lists.launchpad.net
<bodhi_zazen> I think there is a general consensus to move the list(s) if possible
<nhandler> The responses to my email seemed pretty positive
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Do you want to skip to a vote?
<bodhi_zazen> any comments b4 we vote ?
<Rocket2DMn> I dont see any burning need to move the council list, but it doesnt really matter to me if it makes it easier
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] All in favor of migrating to lists.ubuntu.com ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  All in favor of migrating to lists.ubuntu.com ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<w4ett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Joeb454> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<duanedesi> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from duanedesi. 6 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> any more votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 6
<dvz-> damnit i was in the wrong channel...typing +1..wooops
<drs305> +0
<bodhi_zazen> [AGREED] Move mailing list
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Move mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> wee hoo
<bodhi_zazen> I think the problem in the past nhandler , we were not getting a response form lists.ubuntu.com
<bodhi_zazen> so we went with LP
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: I think I can get the list created on lists.ubuntu.com without too much problem
<nhandler> I can also handle migrating most of the subscriptions
<bodhi_zazen> thank you nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] UA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  UA team
 * nhandler -> Dinner
<bodhi_zazen> The UA team has been under the guidance of ajmorris who appears to be mia =(
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to keep the UA team going and am looking for new leadership
<w4ett> How long has he been gone bodhi_zazen ?
<bodhi_zazen> Depending on if we can find aj, it may be temp
<nhasian> why do we need two separate teams?
<Silver_Fox_> i applied to join the team over 3 months ago and have heard nothing
<drs305> bodhi_zazen: Is the UA a FG of BT?
<bodhi_zazen> Since june 27 th
<bodhi_zazen> not yet drs
<nhasian> Silver_Fox_, it took me 6 months to get into UA team :)
<bodhi_zazen> drs305:
<dvz-> ajmorris has said that he was gonna be away for a while
<bodhi_zazen> I have a few people I am looking at for leadership
<bodhi_zazen> mssever is co lead of UA, although I do not know how active he has been
<bodhi_zazen> Hellow has also volunteered
<bodhi_zazen> and there may be another
<w4ett> bodhi_zazen: doesn't jacob have admin powers in that team?
<Rocket2DMn> Just to be clear, I don't think we are deciding right now if we're going to merge the teams.  I think it wil lbe discussed at a FC meeting this week
<Rocket2DMn> Just discussing the matter  to see what people think
<bodhi_zazen> In discussing this ...
<bodhi_zazen> many people have suggested rolling it into the BT as a FG
<bodhi_zazen> so, I wanted opinions from the BT membership on that =)
<starcraftman> Sounds fine to me, make it an fg with someone in charge that ya know can run it.
 * w4ett personally has no problem joining the teams, being a member of both
<duanedesi> ya=unanswered posts?
<Silver_Fox_> do we have the scenario where we have members in UA but not in BT ?
<duanedesi> us
<starcraftman> duanedesi: Yup, uanwered posts team.
<Rocket2DMn> w4ett, an advantage of merging witht the BT is that the UA team (or Focus Group as it would be known) would likely get more activity
<bodhi_zazen> yes Silver_Fox_ I believe we do
<w4ett> Rocket2DMn: agreed
<bodhi_zazen> I think some of the UA team are not so much into irc
<duanedesi> thank you Ian trying to do this on mobile :s
<Silver_Fox_> from that point of view bodhi_zazen i think we should get them involved with this decision
<bodhi_zazen> I have discussed it with the UA team members I can find
<bodhi_zazen> 66 % want to merge to BT
<dvz-> is it really necessary to have an fg focused on answering questions that should be getting answered anyway?
<bodhi_zazen> 33 % want independence
<bodhi_zazen> the ones who want independence feel the do more then focus on noobs, I mean beginners =)
<nhasian> i'm on both teams and as far as I can tell, they both do the same thing.  answer questions on the forum.
<Rocket2DMn> dvz-, I think it's OK, we already have FGs like the Security one
<w4ett> dvz-: the focus of UA was to catch the threads not answered otherwise
<bodhi_zazen> yes dvz- , Unanswered posts are often esoteric
<starcraftman> dvz-: Well, there's still a lot of posts I see with 0 replies falling off page sometimes. Plus, UA had a special tracker for watching em no?
<w4ett> dvz-: lots of research involved in some of them
<bodhi_zazen> yes starcraftman
<Rocket2DMn> in fact, UA posts are often more complex than our team was originally designed to handle (though many members are capable of answering them of course)
<jgoguen> bodhi_zazen: On that point though, "beginners" is somewhat relative. Are they thinking "beginners" as in "new users"?
<bodhi_zazen> probably jgoguen
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, they have their tracker at http://ua.codechunk.net/
<bodhi_zazen> The problem is, without leadership, the UA team is not as active and IMO in danger of falling into extinction
<Silver_Fox_> would we have many UA members needing BT membership very quickly?
<dvz-> what about having a cron job task that finds all unanswered posts daily or at some time interval and categorizes them in the UA category and have people pay attention to that category of posts?
<dvz-> assuming we have the ability to create such a task on the uf server(s).
<bodhi_zazen> Another broader question, has anyone had contact with ajmorris ?
<jgoguen> bodhi_zazen: Maybe I have the wrong interpretation of "beginner" then, but perhaps put it to them that "beginner" means more "new to $TOPIC" than "new user"?
<nhasian> dvz-, i think the UF servers are pretty taxed as it is.  we cant even have threads solved anymore :(
<drs305> The UA encompasses the entire forum though, doesn't it. The UA FG would not be dealing with just basic stuff.
<Rocket2DMn> I don't see any pressing need to roll them into the BT quickly.  Maybe after discussion at the FC meeting on Thursday, give it a few weeks more to try and get ahold of aj?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 jgoguen
<jgoguen> That may help convince the ones that vote for independence
<bodhi_zazen> the UA team feels , and rightlfully so, they answer some quite advanced posts
<Rocket2DMn> drs305, yeah, they cover the whole of the forums, but thats ok.  We have FGs that focus on different areas of the forums
<dvz-> nhasian: and the difference between having an automated script running it during relative downtime compared to a bunch of people scowering the servers is?
<Silver_Fox_> we have a downtime?
<jgoguen> Well in that case, point out our Security FG, even some seemingly-simple security questions can get quite complicated :)
<Silver_Fox_> it always seems busy to me
<dvz-> i don't know...and Silver_Fox_ the qualifier "relative"
<dvz-> :-P
<bodhi_zazen> Personally I could go either way, if UA stays independent I will probably look in on them for a while at least
<Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen:  what about requesting that they reorganise leadership
<bodhi_zazen> That is in process Silver_Fox_
<bodhi_zazen> we could use people willing to lead the team =)
<bodhi_zazen> So far I have 3 candidates
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: what about getting it reset, and then give them 2 weeks or 4 weeks to figure out the status and what the plan of action would be and let the UA decide themselves if they feel a merger is warranted?
<bodhi_zazen> Good idea
<Silver_Fox_> +1 dvz-
<drs305> And as Rocket2DMn discuss it at the FC
<starcraftman> dvz's idea sounds fine to me, give em grace to reorganize and decide for themselves.
<bodhi_zazen> I just want the BT to be aware as I said the prevailing opinion has been to merge the teams, in which case UA would become a FG
 * Joeb454 makes not to read logs in the morning
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to have a feel for how BOTH teams feel
<bodhi_zazen> Any more questions ?
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: If we were to make the UAP team a BT FG, would all UA team members automatically become BT members?
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise I would like to get a vote, just for a feel of the team
<bodhi_zazen> yes I think so nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> out of courtesy =)
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: Could we maybe create a list of who would be gaining BT membership as a result of that?
<Rocket2DMn> I would like to see UA members still go through the process, perhaps shortened a bit.  i expect they should all be able to make it
<Silver_Fox_> that is something i was querying earlier nhandler
<Rocket2DMn> at least those that IRC.  not sure what to do with the rest
<bodhi_zazen> ok nhandler and Rocket2DMn
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Merge UA into BT
<MootBot> Please vote on: Merge UA into BT.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: did you end up quizzing pleia for admittance to bt?
<nhasian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhasian. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dvz-> +0
<w4ett> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dvz-. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> Abstention received from w4ett. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bodhi_zazen> no dvz-
<drs305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drs305. 4 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Silver_Fox_> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 4 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dvz-> bodhi_zazen: okay, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> +1 if the UA members are willing
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 5
<bodhi_zazen> Any other votes ?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 5
<bodhi_zazen> OK, thanks everyone
<bodhi_zazen> I will keep you updated, but I will say the BT is neutral to favoring a merge
<bodhi_zazen> If we go that route we can work out the logistics =)
<Silver_Fox_> i think importantly nobody objects
<bodhi_zazen> OK, Focus groups :
<bodhi_zazen> leads raise your hand if you have issues ;)
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Focus groups
<MootBot> New Topic:  Focus groups
<bodhi_zazen> Go Rocket
<Rocket2DMn> I just want to thank those of you participating in the Summer of Documentation, you're doing great work.  Anybody else interested in helping out, please talk to me after the meeting.
<Rocket2DMn> I'd like to setup a FG meeting soon, the doc team has one this weekend I believe
<Rocket2DMn> that is all :)
<Silver_Fox_> o/ for an announcement
<starcraftman> Yup, sunday, I think we settled on 8 PM UTC for the doc meeting.
<bodhi_zazen> Wee hoo
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you wiki team
<bodhi_zazen> nice to see some activity there =)
<bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: go =)
<Rocket2DMn> we're rockin and rollin' like its the 80s baby
<duanedesign> oh snap
<Silver_Fox_> i just wanted to say thank you to the irc focus group members.  over the last 5 days the channel has seen a fair amount of activity.  well done to you all
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<bodhi_zazen> Any other FG discussion ?
<bodhi_zazen> Education team :
<bodhi_zazen> The UCLP is slowly forming
<bodhi_zazen> IMO we grew too fast in too short a time
<Silver_Fox_> UCLP?
<bodhi_zazen> we have been working on team structure and I think are close to involving other teams and starting on some actual content
<pleia2> Silver_Fox_: ubuntu community learning project
<Silver_Fox_> thank you pleia2
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/
<bodhi_zazen> Education FG has broken free =)
<dvz-> yay
<bodhi_zazen> The remining Education FG is focused on team education, as a benefit for team participation
<bodhi_zazen> I know there are team members who want to learn, those who teach, and I think it is a nice little benefit of team participation
<bodhi_zazen> Any other FG ?
<dvz-> o/ dev
<bodhi_zazen> go dvz- =)
<dvz-> we've been discussing the possibility of opening membership for the dev team up to non-BT members...to expand on our base of developers...requiring atm that they sign the CoC in order to have access to our future SVN the paultag is in the diligent process of bringing up together.
<dvz-> but those non-BT members wouldn't have any say in the direction of the FG itself, as it would still remain a BT-FG, that is unless they went through the process of joining the BT
<nhandler> o/
<dvz-> sure nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> Sounds good to me dvz-
<Rocket2DMn> dvz-, I would support you working with other developers on projects, but I wouldn't give them voice/membership/etc
<nhandler> I am fine with that, but please notify the council before adding a non-bt member to the LP team, as that is currently a subteam of ~ubuntu-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> which is a verbose +1 from Rocket2DMn as well
<Rocket2DMn> :)
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, do we want them added to the LP team at all?
<dvz-> Rocket2DMn: our ideas were involving a tier membership..BT members and non-bt members...and of course, there'd be a segregation in place...but more details to be discussed later as we figure more of this out.
<bodhi_zazen> IMO no =)
<bodhi_zazen> and I would really like to see good relations w/ the MOTU
<pleia2> o/
<bodhi_zazen> we should support , not re-create the MOTU
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: We can work with -dev to figure out a way to handle the LP membership when/if they get a non-bt member wishing to join
<Rocket2DMn> sounds good nhandler
<dvz-> pleia2, go ahead
<pleia2> there is precendent for this, the education team had members added so we could get on the team mailing list
<pleia2> before we were BT members
<Rocket2DMn> plars, we are switching our mailing list now :)
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: I meant the education subteam list, not the general BT list
<dvz-> does switching the BT mailing list also imply the FG mailing list switching as well?
<bodhi_zazen> We like to be as flexible as possible pleia2 =)
<bodhi_zazen> yes dvz-
<Rocket2DMn> dvz-, no
<pleia2> dvz-: no, I don't believe so
<Rocket2DMn> o rly
<bodhi_zazen> One advantage is non-team members can post
<Rocket2DMn> I would expect FGs could use whatever list they want
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: We deactivated the FG mailing lists
<nhandler> There shouldn't be any
<Rocket2DMn> that is true nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> LOL Rocket2DMn
<nhandler> All FG messages should go to the general team list
<bodhi_zazen> +1 on that nhandler
<bodhi_zazen> I think fewer lists is better
<bodhi_zazen> we only need additional lists if the team list is too active
<nhandler> The only two lists we should have are ubuntu-beginners@ and ubuntu-beginners-council@
<bodhi_zazen> IMO
<bodhi_zazen> I think that is all we need
<bodhi_zazen> and that it would be a strong advantage to allow non-members to post to our ml
<bodhi_zazen> moderated of course to keep out the spam
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<dvz-> nhandler: if the dev team is going to open up to non-bt members though, then it'd make sense to have a seperate one in that sense - because otherwise they'd have to subscribe or whatever to the general BT list and try to decipher which posts relate to dev and which dont
<bodhi_zazen> Any other FG news ?
<bodhi_zazen> Everybody know of the newest FG ?
<bodhi_zazen> -ynu ?
<nhandler> You announced it last time or the time before
 * bodhi_zazen is very proud of the new group and I think I know of a potential candidate in fact :p
<Silver_Fox_> bodhi_zazen:  tell me who and i'll get in contact :)
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]NEW MEMBERS !
<MootBot> New Topic: NEW MEMBERS !
<bodhi_zazen> Silver_Fox_: lets see if they come back to the channel
<bodhi_zazen> Any last minute members who did not make the list ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] starcraftman =)
<MootBot> New Topic:  starcraftman =)
<Rocket2DMn> psh -1 that bum ;)
<bodhi_zazen> It is a great pleasure to introduce starcraftman to the team
<starcraftman> lol
<bodhi_zazen> I have known starcraftman from the past , and he took a break for real life
<bodhi_zazen> but, heeeees back =)
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/starcraft.man
<bodhi_zazen> anybody else wishing to add a comment ?
<bodhi_zazen> or shall we vote ?
<nhandler> starcraftman: Would you like to say a few words?
<starcraftman> nhandler: I dunno, not very good at speaches... Not much to say. I mean I been helping beginners long time, and now part of the wiki fg team.
<drs305> Here here, great speech, let's vote.
<starcraftman> haha
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] starcraftman for membership ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  starcraftman for membership ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<drs305> +1
<jgoguen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drs305. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Silver_Fox_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nhasian> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhasian. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<w4ett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from w4ett. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<dvz-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dvz-. 9 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<dvz-> tho i must say, i may end up using your table layout on your wiki starcraftman :-P
 * bodhi_zazen wonders where starcraftman got such a nice table =)
<bodhi_zazen> any other votes
<starcraftman> dvz-: I stole it from Master zen... :)
<starcraftman> lol
<bodhi_zazen> It is not mine, I got it from vorian, who stole it from someone else , lol
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 9
<dvz-> lol
<bodhi_zazen> weee hooo !!!!
<starcraftman> :)
<nhasian> werent we suppose to make starcraftman answer a whole bunch of silly questions first?
<nhasian> like how to know which robot is lying and which is telling the truth?
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
<w4ett> Rocket2DMn: @5000Meteres AMSL
<nhandler> starcraftman: Welcome to the team. You are now a member of ~ubuntu-beginners
<bodhi_zazen> And you are entitled to !starcraft
<starcraftman> thanks, nice to be onboard.
<bodhi_zazen> any other issues ?
<bodhi_zazen> If there are no other issues ...
<Rocket2DMn> let's wrap up
<bodhi_zazen> FYI I am ging skiing August 8-16 =)
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeetign
<Rocket2DMn> quit bragging :)
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeetign
<dvz-> third time's a charm
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:56.
<jgoguen> lol
<eeejay> Howdy
<bdmurray> hey
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> Hola hola!
<davmor2> hello
<heno> hello
<fader_> o/
<schwuk> hi
<ara> hello!
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> welcome everyone!
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> On Thursday 23 we celebrated a bug day based on Evolution https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090723
<pedro_> ~79 were triaged and the quantity of new bugs at the end of the day was 0 (finally!)
<pedro_> Thanks a bunch to our hug day heroes: mrkanister, kamus, alex-hunziker, trothigar and yofel keep on rocking folks!
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're going to show our love to Nautilus https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090730
<heno> Wow, that *0* is pretty cool
<pedro_> so if you have some spare minutes, join the hug day and help us with that task ;-)
<pedro_> yeah! we didn't had 0 new bugs on evolution since uff... can't remember the last time
<heno> great, thanks pedro_
<pedro_> you're welcome :-)
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members -- bdmurray
<bdmurray> Krzysztof Klimonda, kklimonda, was approved as a member of bug control this week.
<heno> ok great
<heno> welcome Kryzysztof!
<bdmurray> They've actually subscribed to some packages to - transmission and python-django which is quite helpful!
<heno> excellent
<heno> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> There was limited SRU testing activity this week, but thanks to getaceres, Patrick Penzler, uncajesse, ody, and Japet for testing SRUs.
<sbeattie> Some new packages have come into the various proposed queues, so testing volunteers would be more than welcome to help out.
<sbeattie> That's all I have.
<heno> ok, thanks
<heno> [TOPIC] Sprint preparations -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sprint preparations -- heno
<heno> The Canonical distro team is having a sprint in Dublin next week
<heno> Just wanted to check that everyone is on track with presentations and work items
<heno> bdmurray, cr3, fader_?
<fader_> heno: Working on the checkbox USB image today, should be on track for next week
<bdmurray> heno: yes I'm on track.  However, I didn't see anything on the schedule.
<fader_> s/on track/ready/
<heno> bdmurray: looks like the plenary schedule is still open
<heno> I suggest we schedule the QA team week first thing Monday on the whiteboard, as before
<heno> we can talk further on the phone
<heno> [TOPIC] Next week's IRC meeting (cancel due to sprint?)  -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next week's IRC meeting (cancel due to sprint?)  -- heno
<heno> 17.00utc is an awkward time while sprinting - earlier in the day would work
<cr3> heno: sorry about the lag
<heno> previously we've often skipped
<cr3> heno: sprint preparation: checkbox presentation for which I would like to rework some of the documentation in the wiki
<pedro_> I'm ok with cancel the IRC meeting, we did that last time IIRC
<cr3> heno: also, I'd like to spend some time with james_w which will be scheduled informally during the sprint, his schedule is rather flexible
<heno> ok. let's make an effort to publish notes from various discussion on the wiki though
<cr3> heno: I still need confirmation from mathiaz for spending time with him regarding scheduling
<heno> cr3: ok
<heno> any other topics?
<heno> seems not. short meeting
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:22.
<davmor2> Yay
<heno> thanks everyone!
<pedro_> thanks you
<davmor2> thanks
<ara> thanks
<sbeattie> thank you.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-30
<bravebug> Why ubuntu traslators translates already translated packeges?
<lukjad007> Hey TuxPurple
<ludovicc> hello
<vdquynh> Hi, Is this where the Ubuntu Translation meeting is going on ?
<dpm> soren, hi everyone!
<dpm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dpm> soren, whoever's here for the translations meeting, give a shout!
<evanrmurphy> here! (mostly)
<dpm> hi evanrmurphy!
<evanrmurphy> hi dpm :)
<dpm> we'll wait a couple of minutes to see if other folks come by
<czajkowski> alhoa
<dpm> hey czajkowski
 * ScottK pokes his head in to say thanks for all the great support for fixing Kubuntu translations yesterday.
<dpm> hey ScottK! :-) It was great teamwork
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> I think we got more done yesterday than in the entire last year.
<dpm> cool
<dpm> as adiroiban was the one wanting to further discuss the first topic (Ubuntu Translations project) and he's not yet here, and as I believe we haven't got anyone from the Hebrew community to talk about the Hebrew translations issues, let's reshuffle the agenda:
<rgreening> yay for improving kubuntu :) thanks
<dpm> I'll start with a brief report on the Kubuntu Translations Day yesterday
<dpm> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Translations Day report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Translations Day report
<dpm> yesterday we celebrated the Kubuntu Translations Day on #kubuntu-devel, with the purpose of getting Kubuntu translations in good shape for Karmic and in general to give them some love
<dpm> most of the work we did was not based on actual translations, but rather internationalization work, as a basis for:
<dpm> a) users to see their apps properly translated in Kubuntu Karmic
<dpm> b) translators to be able to translate them
<dpm> we covered a lot of ground, and we got some bug reports to start working on
<dpm> so this is still ongoing work, I do not want to stop it here
<dpm> on the whole, I think the outcome was very positive and I'd like to repeat it again
<dpm> we basically focused on Karmic, but we might use some of this work for Jaunty as well
<dpm> for me personally, it was also a good opportunity to learn how the Kubuntu/KDE translation infrastructure works, and it was a fulfilling experience
<dpm> we also had upstream presence there, yurchov, from the Ukranian KDE translation team, and we had the opportunity to exchange views and knowledge on Kubuntu-KDE translations
<dpm> it will take some days to see the results of the work still, until the next karmic language packs are released, but during the release cycle they are released ca. every couple of days IIRC
<dpm> so it shouldn't actually take long
<dpm> I think that was all from my part, has anyone got any questions?
<dpm> it seems there aren't any questions, nor many people around so I'll skip the discussion topics and I'll just report on the next topic
<dpm> and go on with the monologue :-)
<dpm> [TOPIC] GNOME help files shipped verbatim in language packs
<MootBot> New Topic:  GNOME help files shipped verbatim in language packs
<dpm> There's work in progress in getting the GNOME help files in language packs
<dpm> This will _probably_ be done for Karmic
<czajkowski> that would be rather helpful
<dpm> yes, but I should highlight that at this point this will only be a (Live-/Alternate-)CD space-saving feature,
<dpm> since the xml to PO (import) and PO to xml (langpack export) conversion will still have to be done manually.
<dpm> We will only copy the verbatim bits, no xml <-> po conversion for now, that requires proper rosetta support
<dpm> which is not yet implemented
<dpm> For those interested in the (technical) details, here's the corresponding bug -> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/123020
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123020 in pkgbinarymangler "support shipping verbatim files in the exported tarballs" [Wishlist,In progress]
<czajkowski> dpm: thanks
<czajkowski> .c
<dpm> np :)
<dpm> hopefully this will give us some more space in the CD for additional language packs, although since we're also adding features and generally making Ubuntu rocking harder every time, space in the CD is always a balance between features and functionality
<dpm> sorry, that was wrong, features and _usability_ :-)
<dpm> anyway, I think since there's not many folks around I'd say we move the pending topics to the mailing list and we make the rest of the meeting a Q+A session on translations, what do you say?
<evanrmurphy> ay
<dpm> ok, so now's the chance to ask everything you wanted to know on translations and were afraid to ask, just shoot :-)
<czajkowski> well this is more a general question about translations
<dpm> [TOPIC] Translations Q+A
<MootBot> New Topic:  Translations Q+A
<dpm> sure, feel free to ask czajkowski
<czajkowski> we;re trying to do more for our team irish, but we keep seening to start bits and pieces here and there, for other teams, how do you do it, everyone work on seperate areas, or work on one area till it's done
<czajkowski> maybe it's more a question for -locoteams, but seeing as folks are in here I said I'd ask
<dpm> I think it's a perfect question for this meeting :) The way of working depends on each team. I guess the first question would be where you want to put your translation efforts: Ubuntu or Kubuntu. Form a comment from shanefagan, IIRC I think the Irish team want to concentrate on Ubuntu
<czajkowski> aye,
<czajkowski> so last night I looked at Ubuntu one, and it's half done.
<czajkowski> just wondering do teams have trnaslation meet ups and do it at the same time or jsut keep going at it
<czajkowski> dpm: thanks
<dpm> I think this thread started by evanrmurphy on the ubuntu-translators ML will give you some more insight on how different teams work and communicate -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-July/002618.html
<czajkowski> dpm: perfect thanks
<dpm> in general I think teams work more in a distributed way
<czajkowski> *nods*
<dpm> and use mailing lists and forums to communicate
<dpm> BUT
<dpm> I think translation jams are a good opportunity to get together and get a lot of translations done
<czajkowski> dpm: might try one
<dpm> that's one of the reasons we are trying to promote them in the Ubuntu Global Jam
<dpm> yeah
<dpm> As for what to concentrate on to translate: then you can decide on which packages (as in applications) you want to focus on. I'd recommend the most visible ones, since they're also the ones users will first see and will be easier for translators to test
<czajkowski> yes I think we're going to have to do one before hand and get people more invovled in it and practice. Leftmost sent us an email asking us to contribute to gnome more upstream but that means not using rosetta, and that is rather nice tool
<czajkowski> dpm: thanks you've helped a lot
<dpm> czajkowski: np, I'm glad I could help
<dpm> you can still use Rosetta and submit translations back to GNOME, though
<dpm> it is a bit more technical, but it's still doable
<dpm> I've been working on some documentation in the wiki on how to do that
<czajkowski> ok good to know at least
<dpm> It's still work in progress and I started it to have some material for the Kubuntu Translations Day, but the next step will be for me (or other community members) to document how to contribute back to GNOME
<czajkowski> dpm: cool I think that's what leftmost was saying with regard to irish .
<dpm> czajkowski: here's the KDE page as an example -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Upstream/KDE
<czajkowski> cheers
<dpm> you're welcome
<dpm> anything else for the last 3 mins?
<geirha> Are man-pages translatable through rosetta?
<dpm> geirha: no, they are not translatable. For those we do not import translations and they are only translatable upstream
<dpm> It's mostly for technical reasons
<dpm> man pages do not use gettext, which is the translation technology behind most opensource projects, and that's the only format (apart from an exception for Mozilla projects)
<geirha> dpm: I see. That explains why I can't find it on lp :)
<dpm> yup :)
<dpm> anyway, I think we'll leave it here for today
<czajkowski> excellent
<dpm> many thanks to everyone for listening and for your participation
 * dpm claps
<dpm> see you around, and in the next meeting :)
<dpm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<czajkowski> dpm: weather forecast is for rain :)
<czajkowski> you have been warned
<dpm> hahah, I wasn't expecting anything less
<evanrmurphy> later all! :)
<EDavidBurg> The FC meeting is about to start, correct?
<Snova_> I think so, yes.
<DougieRichardson> I believe so
<forumsmatthew> we are scheduled to begin in just a few minutes
<bodhi_zazen> should be
<forumsmatthew> we aren't all here yet, though
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo forumsmatthew
<Technoviking> here :)
<cariboo907> here :)
<Bodsda> hello everyone /me is spectating
<forumsmatthew> ubuntu-geek and jdong won't be here
<EDavidBurg> jdong has been gone a lot recently
<forumsmatthew> anyone hear from kiwi and/or bapoumba
<liviubero> I am here
<forumsmatthew> EDavidBurg, he's working a special summer project
<EDavidBurg> Yeah, I heard
<bodhi_zazen> kiwi was active on the forums just a few minutes ago
<bodhi_zazen> Agenda : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<mint> oh its started?
<mint> no?
<forumsmatthew> not quite
<liviubero> I don't know
<mint> lol ok
<forumsmatthew> only 3 out of 7 of us are here, with 2 known to be unable to make it
<forumsmatthew> we're looking into the other two
<lukjad007> Hi
<jenkinbr> hello all :)
<liviubero> hello
<Bodsda> hello
 * DougieRichardson waves
<lukjad007> Made it back in time!
<jenkinbr> forumsmatthew: you mean 3?
<mint> at what time will the report icon issue be discussed?
<liviubero> I hope after my case
<forumsmatthew> jenkinbr, no, I mean 2.
<forumsmatthew> 3 are here, 2 can't come, 2 are being checked up on. That's 7
<jenkinbr> aw :)
<mint> your case?
<liviubero> yes, I have an item on the list
<jacob> bapoumba has been out since saturday unless I missed something?
<mint> oh i see
<forumsmatthew> okay, I have confirmed that bapoumba isn't yet back from her trip and won't be here
<forumsmatthew> I'm checking on kiwi now
<forumsmatthew> well, kiwi seems to have gone offline just before I sent the message to him. as he hasn't made an irc meeting in years, I don't think we will see him
<forumsmatthew> okay, bodhi_zazen and Technoviking, should we postpone?
<mint> postpone the whole meeting?
<bodhi_zazen> I think we can discuss a few issues if you are willing
<liviubero> I am willing
<bodhi_zazen> is Lord Xeb here ?
<Technoviking> We can discuss and post logs on the discussion, but could not vote on anything
<liviubero> but not if don't :-)
<forumsmatthew> I think Technoviking is right. We don't have a quorum
<forumsmatthew> I would rather postpone discussion until we are able to act
<EDavidBurg> Or I can be an honorary FC member :)
<forumsmatthew> lol
<forumsmatthew> :)
<bodhi_zazen> I am alright with that, but I think there are a few items that do not need action
<bodhi_zazen> err, I mean a vote
<liviubero> for instance my case?
<bodhi_zazen> for example , If I recall correct, this is not the first no-show for Lord Xeb
<Bodsda> Dougie Richardson's could be discussed?
<bodhi_zazen> I think we should remove his name from the agenda and he can re-add it if he wishes =)
<Technoviking> bodhi_zazen: agreed
<forumsmatthew> bodhi_zazen, I think that's reasonable
<EDavidBurg> He's been banned a while.
<bodhi_zazen> Ryan is not here
<bodhi_zazen> do we wish to discuss #3 ?
<EDavidBurg> Can we at least knock out the report button issue? I think that's a pretty minor one with a simple fix.
<bodhi_zazen> "Testimonials and Experiences"
<bodhi_zazen> in order of the agenda please =)
<forumsmatthew> EDavidBurg, that requires Ryan since he is the only one of us that has direct access to upload images to the server
<liviubero> fine for me
<mint> ...
<bodhi_zazen> "Testimonials and Experiences" anyone ?
<DougieRichardson> Evening all, the specification summarises my suggestion
<forumsmatthew> I don't see anything on the agenda that we can act on, including creating a team
<forumsmatthew> it's a good idea
<forumsmatthew> let's talk about it when we have a quorum
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<bodhi_zazen> liviubero: we can not act on => next meeting
<DougieRichardson> OK but when is the next meeting likely to be?
<EDavidBurg> A month or so
<liviubero> omg
<bodhi_zazen> I suggest we defer report icon as we can not act on that either
 * DougieRichardson shakes head...
<bodhi_zazen> Same with LP integration
<jacob> looks like Technoviking is already on top of the team reports
<liviubero> could you not send a log ?
<bodhi_zazen> but do we wish to discuss LP at all forumsmatthew ?
<mint> excuseme but if the other council mebers couldn't be bothered to show up, isn't it tough luck to them?
<liviubero> concerning my stuff
<mint> excuse me*
<forumsmatthew> please, wait
<forumsmatthew> we need a majority of the council present to make decisions
<forumsmatthew> four members could not make it
<mint> very disappointing
<forumsmatthew> due to events in real life
<lukjad007> mint You need quorum.
<forumsmatthew> they aren't shirking responsibility
<forumsmatthew> it happens
<lukjad007> mint See Robert's Rules
<forumsmatthew> I don't want to push anything
<Technoviking> jacob: I trying to get the FC/forum report in every month, but... I'm full of fail sometimes:)
<mint> roberts rules?
<forumsmatthew> I don't want to see grumpiness
<komputes> Concerning the report button, I have to agree with Viva who proposed a red icon on the thread (perhaps a flag?)
<EDavidBurg> forumsmatthew: does it require a forum to decide to change the report button? Ryan can get to actually changing it as he has time.
<forumsmatthew> take a deep breath
<mint> ?
<forumsmatthew> EDavidBurg, yes. We'll ask him
<forumsmatthew> listen
<EDavidBurg> thanks.
<jacob> (Technoviking: i'm the same way with our loco reports :-!)
 * The_Toxic_Mite wishes to say hello
<forumsmatthew> I'll send a note to the FC and we will look for another time to meet, preferably sooner than a month
<DougieRichardson> forumsmatthew: I appreciate the need for a quorum its late here and I've waited up for this.  Not meaning to sound sniffy as that's not my intention but if we can't discuss then let's close for now.
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<forumsmatthew> bye
<mint> how utterly pointless
<liviubero> hey
<The_Toxic_Mite> What's up, mint?
<DougieRichardson> OK that's disappointing
<liviubero> are you going?
<EDavidBurg> Haha, matthew got out of here quick when people started complaining :)
<bodhi_zazen> mint: happens
<liviubero> I've wited up for this
<jacob> mint: that's a basic thing: you can't vote on something if there aren't over 50% of people to vote on it
<jenkinbr> mint: the Report button is not that big a deal - I think it can wait
<The_Toxic_Mite> Hey jenkinbr
<mint> well bodhi it's still very disappointing
<jenkinbr> although I did see the thread merge.
<jenkinbr> TTM: hey!
<DougieRichardson> has matthew quit?
<lukjad007> mint http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#3
<mint> doesn't exactly inspire much in the way of the council
<lukjad007> DougieRichardson looks like it
<Bodsda> DougieRichardson, yeah
<komputes> yup
<lukjad007> mint The rules are quite clear
<liviubero> could you not just log what I have to say in my defence and then act?
<bodhi_zazen> OK can we get a little order to what remains of this meeting ?
 * popey tickles bodhi_zazen 
<liviubero> you don't have to act now
<bodhi_zazen> OK, lets go back
<lukjad007> mint Nothing can be done without quorum, except call a recess, or adjourn, and something else like that.
<liviubero> just listen what I have to say, think about it ad then act
<bodhi_zazen> I will listen to DougieRichardson
<bodhi_zazen> as he is first on the agenda =)
<liviubero> ok
 * lukjad007 quiets down.
<bodhi_zazen> although understand no actino can be taken
<mint> ugh too much bureaucratic nonsense paralyzed by missing members
<mint> bye
<bodhi_zazen> DougieRichardson: ?
<DougieRichardson> cheers bodhi_zazen, I'm a bit put out with forrumsmatthew's attitude to be honest
<DougieRichardson> Anyhoo
<DougieRichardson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Forum/Spec/TestimonialTeam
<bodhi_zazen> OK, sorry about that
 * Joeb454 should've stood in as a semi FC member :P
<bodhi_zazen> DougieRichardson: I like your suggestion
<DougieRichardson> Thanks bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> Are you willing to spend some time in T&E then ?
<DougieRichardson> yes
<bodhi_zazen> thanks
<Bodsda> o/
<bodhi_zazen> I agree with your take
<DougieRichardson> I'm stepping back from some other projects for it if needed
<bodhi_zazen> I like moving the threads there
<DougieRichardson> lol
<bodhi_zazen> because otherwise they fill with trolling
<DougieRichardson> Its the reaction from our members that seems to cause the issue
<bodhi_zazen> so moving them to T&E with some dedicated time from you would be a place to start
<DougieRichardson> I agree
<bodhi_zazen> give us an update next meeting =)
<bodhi_zazen> Bodsda: is it on topic ?
<DougieRichardson> I will do mate
<Bodsda> yes
<bodhi_zazen> Thanks
<bodhi_zazen> go Bods
<bodhi_zazen> I think the idea has merit DougieRichardson
<Bodsda> I would be willing/I would like to   help out with this if DougieRichardson would allow me to do so. I have read the spec and think it is a very worthy cause
<DougieRichardson> ofcourse
<bodhi_zazen> great
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments ?
<EDavidBurg> Is there really a need for an official team?
<DougieRichardson> Not just now - as long as the council is in approval I'll flesh it out
<DougieRichardson> Yes
<bodhi_zazen> probably not DougieRichardson
<Bodsda> DougieRichardson, appreciated, I'll start spending more time in T&E and try and discuss with you closer to the next FC meeting
<bodhi_zazen> OK, next topic
<jacob> bodhi_zazen: I do have some concerns with it, but they can wait until the next meeting
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]liviubero
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:22. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]liviubero
<MootBot> New Topic: liviubero
<EDavidBurg> It just strikes me as a bit... missionary
<bodhi_zazen> liviubero: you are up
<EDavidBurg> Ah, sorry, next topic. continue.
<liviubero> ok
<liviubero> may  I speak?
<bodhi_zazen> although understand no action can be taken so you may wish to defer to next time
<bodhi_zazen> yes
<liviubero> I would just like to speak
<bodhi_zazen> you have the floow
<bodhi_zazen> floor
<liviubero> first of all,
<liviubero> thank you for the chance of speaking for myself
<liviubero> I am aware of the fact that in other communities
<liviubero> one would not have such a chance
<liviubero> so here is what I have to say in my defence
<liviubero> ( I would be gratefull if you let me speak until am I over )
<liviubero> ( else I could lose my point - I am very tired )
<liviubero> ( and tomorrow I have an exam )
<liviubero> in June-July I was posting in the
<bodhi_zazen> just stay on topic please
<bodhi_zazen> w/o commentaty
<liviubero> "Are you a thread killer?" thread
<liviubero> in the Community Cafe Games
<liviubero> I posted at some point
<liviubero> that a user should post something stupid
<liviubero> in order to kill the thread
<liviubero> so stupid that none can answer
<liviubero> - this would be the usual way to kill a thread
<liviubero> then a (new) game began:
<bodhi_zazen> stop =)
<liviubero> yes?
<bodhi_zazen> that is not why your account was banned
<liviubero> I know
<liviubero> but I am not finished
<bodhi_zazen> OK, so on topic please
<bodhi_zazen> people are waiting
<liviubero> and the game went on
<liviubero> into providing the most (obviously) stupid answer
<liviubero> to that question
<liviubero> a user asked why is he not seeing the "Start" button on the screen
<bodhi_zazen> please get to the point =)
<liviubero> and how can he install stuff in Ubuntu
<liviubero> ok
<liviubero> I thought, I can explain the whole story
<liviubero> and just complain
<liviubero> about it
<liviubero> the idea of my plead
<bodhi_zazen> you were banned for posting "rm -rf ~'
<liviubero> yes
<bodhi_zazen> the response was
<bodhi_zazen> HEY I'm not a complete idiot I kno that rm -rf splodes my computer! Sheesh.
<liviubero> this was not meant as malignant code
<bodhi_zazen> to which you said : Trust me, just remove your home folder
<liviubero> what I've posted was by no means meant as malignant code
<bodhi_zazen> removing $HOME is quite destuctive and not the best way to solve the problem
<liviubero> it was meant as a parody
<bodhi_zazen> especially with very little information
<Technoviking> liviubero: We take people posting harmful commands on the forums very seriously
 * Bodsda did that to his home dir a while ago, not funnny
<liviubero> I understand
<liviubero> but this was a joke
<Technoviking> liviubero: even as a joke
<bodhi_zazen> it was not funny
<liviubero> and if read the context
<liviubero> read the context and you understand
<bodhi_zazen> I am going to move on now liviubero
<liviubero> i signed as Gill Bates
<bodhi_zazen> consider yourself heard
<bodhi_zazen> and we can not act
<liviubero> this was only a joke
<liviubero> a parody
<Bodsda> jokes aside, that code is harmful
<Technoviking> liviubero: but can you gurentee everyone who read your post before it was jailed knew it was a joke
<Bodsda> the Community Cafe Games subforum is not exempt from the forum CoC
<liviubero> I know, but the context was clear enough
<liviubero> I would not have posted real harmful code
<Bodsda> ... you did
<bodhi_zazen> Technoviking: any other comments or shall we move on ?
<liviubero> as a parody given by someone who doesn't know that he's not using windows
<bodhi_zazen> liviubero: we heard you and I am sorry we can not make any decision today
<jenkinbr> liviubero: Have you read the annoucement on top of almost evey forum page?
<liviubero> you don't understant
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Report Post Icon
<MootBot> New Topic: Report Post Icon
<liviubero> you also didn't let me speak
<bodhi_zazen> liviubero: we can not act
<bodhi_zazen> time to move on
<liviubero> but I am not ready
<bodhi_zazen> others are waiting
<liviubero> and it's about a banning
<liviubero> not a button
<bodhi_zazen> jenkinbr: ?
<jenkinbr> I am here
<bodhi_zazen> you are up
<jenkinbr> Thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1208698
<jenkinbr> and...
<bodhi_zazen> jenkinbr: I think the idea has merit we shall discuss it among the staff
 * DougieRichardson Waves goodnight
<jenkinbr> Post http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7664384&postcount=33
<bodhi_zazen> I think the staff is aware and to be honest, the most useful thing right now is probably mockups
<EDavidBurg> Why not use the old report button?
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7664384&postcount=33
<MootBot> LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7664384&postcount=33
<Technoviking> liviubero: You can discuss this more at the next FC meeting, but we are quite clear that malicilous commands are not welcome in any way, shape, or form, even as a joke.
<bodhi_zazen> EDavidBurg: new users do not understand what it means, not enough words
<jenkinbr> I can make more mockups as needed, if it helps
<EDavidBurg> bodhi_zazen: you mean the old report button that says "report" on it?
<EDavidBurg> And looks like the current quote button
<bodhi_zazen> EDavidBurg: this is the current image :
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://ubuntuforums.org/report.php?p=7664384
<MootBot> LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/report.php?p=7664384
<liviubero> Technoviking: what I mean is that you misunderstand my post; I should not be banned, but put under observation
<jacob> I didn't like the report button right next to the quote button though -- people would submit replies as reports and it would clog up the RP forum
<bodhi_zazen> OOps
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif
<MootBot> LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif
<The_Toxic_Mite> jacob: +1
<EDavidBurg> Before the current image, there was an image similar in style to the current quote button which said "report" on it. I am suggesting we revert to that as it seemed to work just fine.
<Bodsda> liviubero, your time to discuss this has passed, please dont interrupt the current topic
<bodhi_zazen> EDavidBurg: basically that is the idea
<bodhi_zazen> people would like to discuss the options =)
<jacob> i think it's position is okay right now, but it does need a better image. there's one I liked a lot by The_Toxic_Mite (i think), but that's for the next meeting
<jenkinbr> The idea is to have the report post Icon describe itself more
<Technoviking> Bodsda: that is my fault, not liviubero
<Joeb454> like it used to?
<jenkinbr> I also liked The_Toxic_Mite's image better than mine
<Bodsda> liviubero, apologies. sorry Technoviking
<The_Toxic_Mite> jenkinbr: I didn't make an image?!
<The_Toxic_Mite> LOL!
<bodhi_zazen> jenkinbr: and others : I will discuss with the staff and we may not need action by the FC at a meeting to change, I do not know
<Bodsda> haha
<The_Toxic_Mite> Anyway carry on.. ;)
<jacob> The_Toxic_Mite: you had some mockup or something
<bodhi_zazen> brb ..
<jenkinbr> bodhi_zazen: ok
<The_Toxic_Mite> jacob: I don't remember posting a mock up
<jacob> but anyways. holding my comments for later.
<jacob> The_Toxic_Mite: aah sorry it was Tipped OuT
<jenkinbr> TTM: nevermind, I was confusing you with TippeD OuT
<Technoviking> bodhi_zazen: maybe we can discuss this on the FC list, I think it is a good idea, if it would not mess up the forum stylesheets
<The_Toxic_Mite> jacob, jenkinbr, I knew it lol
<jacob> liked this image + positioning: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7668094&postcount=41
<jenkinbr> jacob: +1
<jenkinbr> That's the one I'm refferring to
<The_Toxic_Mite> Tipped OuT's mock-up is good but what about visually impared people?
<The_Toxic_Mite> Although..
<jacob> also, you guys have a lot less buttons than I see. ;)
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Technoviking
<jacob> The_Toxic_Mite: contrast is pretty good imo.
<The_Toxic_Mite> jacob: Yeah
<The_Toxic_Mite> Hey KiwiNZ
<liviubero> bye
<jenkinbr> The_Toxic_Mite: The font is also small in the quote button and the edit button
<EDavidBurg> Well, we could have had a quorum is matthew didn't leave.
<The_Toxic_Mite> Yeah
<EDavidBurg> if*
<KiwiNZ> geetings
<jenkinbr> KiwiNZ: hello!
<Joeb454> hey KiwiNZ
<Technoviking> greet Kiwi, alas we lost matthew
<bodhi_zazen> welcome KiwiNZ
<lukjad007> KiwiNZ !
<The_Toxic_Mite> Hey lukjad007
<The_Toxic_Mite> it's TTM
<lukjad007> Hey The_Toxic_Mite
<lukjad007> TIM, from which thread?
<KiwiNZ> Still finding my way round this client sheesh
<lukjad007> KiwiNZ Us xchat!
<jenkinbr> Use irssi!
<The_Toxic_Mite> Â¬_Â¬ shouldn't we get back on topic now?
<Snova> Now is probably a bad time to fiddle with it further...
 * jenkinbr quits spamming IRC clients
<KiwiNZ> What issues do we have
<The_Toxic_Mite> jenkinbr: your cue?
<The_Toxic_Mite> ^^
<jenkinbr> Report post button currently
<bodhi_zazen> back
 * The_Toxic_Mite yawns - it's 11:45pm where he lives
<The_Toxic_Mite> Hey bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> any other comments on the report button ?
<jenkinbr> y
<The_Toxic_Mite> bodhi_zazen: The mock ups or the current one?
<EDavidBurg> bodhi_zazen: matthew is on the forums right now, if you wanted to get him in here we would have 4/7
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Launchpad Integration
<MootBot> New Topic: Launchpad Integration
<jenkinbr> I agree with letting you discuss it amungst the staf
 * bodhi_zazen pm matthew
<Joeb454> The_Toxic_Mite: it's not that late (I'm in the same TZ) - I have to be at work in 9 hours
<The_Toxic_Mite> Laters guys - will the button be discussed next month?
<bodhi_zazen> This is for the staff mainly
<The_Toxic_Mite> ok
<The_Toxic_Mite> See ya guys
<bodhi_zazen> I am suggesting we consider using LP to track staff
<The_Toxic_Mite> ):P
<bodhi_zazen> terms of staff to be 2 years w/ option to renew
<Joeb454> I wouldn't say terms personally
<bodhi_zazen> More of less an automation of this process : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1223167
<Joeb454> I'd just use it as a reminder - as discussed in that thread, actually :P
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sugesting we change our policies in any other way
<bodhi_zazen> Since it was my topic, that is all I have
<Technoviking> bodhi_zazen: I think would be great to do this.
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<KiwiNZ> I have nothing
<KiwiNZ> I think the report button if fine
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Team Reporting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Reporting
<bodhi_zazen> this was brought to my attention by nhandler who could not make the meeting
<bodhi_zazen> I am willing to help with this
<Technoviking> me too,
<bodhi_zazen> although I do not mind assistance if anyone else is available
<bodhi_zazen> thanks Technoviking
<bodhi_zazen> I think there was some small discussion on the mailing list
<bodhi_zazen> asking among the staff who is wiling to help
<Technoviking> maybe we could make a team report thread in staff chit-chat, everyone could add to and copy/organize that to the wiki
<bodhi_zazen> perhaps a thread in the staff section then ?
<bodhi_zazen> +1 Technoviking
<Technoviking> make a new report thread evey month
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
<bodhi_zazen> we have one last topic and 5 or so min =)
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]UA Team
<MootBot> New Topic: UA Team
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1224432
<MootBot> LINK received: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1224432
<bodhi_zazen> Any opinions from the staff on what to do with the UA team ?
<bodhi_zazen> otherwise I will ask the people I suggested for assistance and we can discuss it next time
<bodhi_zazen> Comments ?
<bodhi_zazen> Other issues ?
<Technoviking> none
<bodhi_zazen> 5 min warning
<bodhi_zazen> Shall we end the meeting if there are no other topics ?
<Technoviking> sound like a plan
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you all for coming, sorry for the confusion
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you all for the suggestions , they are appreciated
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:58.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-07-31
<lool> Do we have a meeting?
<ogra> wouldnt that be 1h late already ?
<lool> No
<lool> Uh why did it move
<ogra> move ?
<lool> For some reason I just got the google reminder
<ogra> heh
<ogra> doesnt look like there is one today though
<ScottK> There's three of us here, so feel free to take credit for a meeting on your status report if you want.
<ScottK> ;-)
<lool> :)
<lool> ogra: Did your OTG port work on the beagle?
<ogra> never tried it ....
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-01
<drs305> Anyone in here who can tell me how to book this channel?
<drs305> Thanks, the answer located on the Fridge.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-02
<bazhang> wb nickrud
<nickrud> hey bazhang
<bazhang> long time no see :)
<nickrud> I'm still on the mail list, and this seemed like an appropriate meeting for a missing op to show up at
<Mamarok> good morning
<bazhang> hehe
<bazhang> Mamarok, good morning
<nickrud> how's thing's been for you the last few months?
<bazhang> pretty good, and you?
<elky> random chatter should adjourn to elsewhere for the sake of sane meeting logs ;)
<nickrud> likewise all in all. Been getting some away from keyboard time again. Oh, the meeting started already :p
<bazhang> whoops sorry elky
<elky> not for another 8 minutes, but still
<nickrud> aye, sensible
<jussi01> Ok, who have we got? Pricey Pici you here yet?
<elky> just you and me so far
<elky> so we're still sans quorum
<elky> Pici, Pricey ping?
<jussi01> Still Sans quorum. If there is none by half past, meeting is cancelled (IMHO)
<elky> yep.
<Hobbsee> irc meeting on a sunday?
<bazhang> apparently not
<Shane_Fagan> is the ubuntu-doc meeting in 5 minutes ?
<popey> yes
<Shane_Fagan> (Im not really used to using UTC)
<Shane_Fagan> popey: Thanks
<Keybuk> popey: I was shouting at you on the train earlier
<popey> o rly?
<Keybuk> popey: you were being wrong on a podcast
<Keybuk> ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> we accept email :)
<mdke> is that a first?
<popey> not by a long way :)
<Keybuk> popey: I think you were just playing devils advocate over the whole "users opinions matter" issue
<mdke> heh
<popey> Keybuk: you're too kind
<Keybuk> (obviously they don't)
<Keybuk> :p
<mdke> ok, documentation team meeting in the house
<Shane_Fagan> cool
<popey> :)
<mwcrowley> in the hizzy
<Rocket2DMn> lol, word!
<mdke> here's the agenda - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<mdke> I think we can safely skip the first two items, unless anyone would like to introduce themselves as a new contributor, or has questions about how to get involved?
<mdke> oh, and
<mdke> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:07. The chair is mdke.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdke> ok, so let's deal with the old business first
<mdke> [TOPIC] DITA and Mallard -- any comments?
<MootBot> New Topic:  DITA and Mallard -- any comments?
<DougieRichardson> Not really much to say, Jim's not here is he?
<mdke> doesn't look like it
<DougieRichardson> Either technology has their advantages
<mdke> for those interested, DITA and Mallard are alternative document formats to docbook
<DougieRichardson> and in the long term we need to give it serious consideration
<DougieRichardson> but not realistically in the short to medium term
<Rocket2DMn> Are they easier to edit than docbook?
<DougieRichardson> There's too much change
<mdke> Mallard certainly is
<DougieRichardson> Not really, although there is a DITA editor
<mdke> the idea is to reduce the number of tags used to those absolutely necessary
<technomensch> what about managing?
<mdke> so it's a lot simpler than docbook
<DougieRichardson> Jim knows more than I do about the editing side of life
<Rocket2DMn> Is there a tool to convert docbook xml to either of those?
<mwcrowley> any editor reccomendations?
<mdke> I'm not aware of one at the moment for mallard
<DougieRichardson> There are
<andrew_sayers> About editing - I assume that importing/exporting to/from OOo would be considered sacrilege?
<DougieRichardson> (For DITA)
<mdke> andrew_sayers: that might work for new documents, subjct to the xml being cleaned up afterwards
<mdke> andrew_sayers: but I don't think it can work for editing existing documnts
<Rocket2DMn> Sounds like this needs to be researched more, we're getting mixed responses.  Is there a spec for this idea?
<mdke> anyway, DougieRichardson is right, these are for consideration in the long term, but not now, I don't think
<technomensch> agreed that more research is needed
<mdke> given that Gnome upstream is moving to Mallard, we'll need to consider it in terms of sharing material for ubuntu-docs
<DougieRichardson> There was a lot of involvement from the developer of Mallard last time I spoke to Phil on IRC, but he's not here
<technomensch> a pros/cons compatibilty chart, along with a cost (time/work involved) analysis should probably be time
<Rocket2DMn> What would be really great is a good graphical method for editing docs, like having an "ubuntu-docs" project in an IDE of some sort
<DougieRichardson> Technically, I prefer DITA but as you said mdke, Gnome is moving to Mallard
<mdke> for us to move generally to Mallard, I'd like to see if KDE adopts it too
<DougieRichardson> Importing from web  editing is probably worth focussing on
<DougieRichardson> moin->xml
<mdke> but we'll have to see how Gnome arranges their work to see if we'll be "forced" to use it for ubuntu-docs
<DougieRichardson> I agree
<Rocket2DMn> Agreed, we may have our hands tied by Gnome's upstream decisions if we want to keep the integration
<DougieRichardson> we should probably discuss it on list, as I don't think any one at woscon is her now
<Shane_Fagan> Whats the timeframe on Gnomes change to Mallard ?
<mdke> Shane_Fagan: unclear at present, because it involves rewriting the whole user guide
<DougieRichardson> shane_fagan: I understood it was for 3.0
<Rocket2DMn> do they have a target date for 3.0?
<mdke> Shane_Fagan: but some things are moving already, like the Empathy manual
<mdke> it will depend on manpower
<Shane_Fagan> Rocket2DMn: October of next year I think
<Rocket2DMn> If they release in October, then we are 6 months behind, right?  So Karmic+3?
<Shane_Fagan> April Sorry
<Rocket2DMn> that's assuming Ubuntu takes on Gnome 3.0 for the dev cycle right after it is release upstream
<Rocket2DMn> oh, April '10?
<Shane_Fagan> Yep
<Shane_Fagan> Just looked at the roadmap
<mdke> both Milo and Phil are heavily involved on the upstream team so they can keep us in touch with developments
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.  Thanks for making us aware of it.
<mdke> as a proposal, I'd suggest we continue to monitor things, I don't think there is any need to take any decisions at the moment
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<Shane_Fagan> +1
<DougieRichardson> +1
<mdke> ok
<technomensch> +1
<mdke> [ACTION] continue to monitor Gnome upstream adoption of Mallard with a view to evaluating whether it could work for the project
<MootBot> ACTION received:  continue to monitor Gnome upstream adoption of Mallard with a view to evaluating whether it could work for the project
<mdke> moving on
<mdke> [TOPIC] Discussion about licensing for wiki.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion about licensing for wiki.ubuntu.com
<mdke> this is on the Community Council agenda, so I suggest we leave that to them
<DougieRichardson> I agree with that
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, can you explain why it is being discussed?
<Rocket2DMn> What is the current license, and what is the proposed change?
<mdke> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda for background
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks
<mdke> any more comments on this item?
<Shane_Fagan> nope
<mdke> [AGREED] defer to Community Council for discussion/decision
<MootBot> AGREED received:  defer to Community Council for discussion/decision
<mdke> [TOPIC] Status update on Kubuntu and Xubuntu documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status update on Kubuntu and Xubuntu documentation
<mdke> anyone around from Kubuntu, Xubuntu?
<Rocket2DMn> vorian ?
 * DougieRichardson spots tumbleweed rolling across the room
<vorian> eh?
<technomensch> he speaks...
<mdke> neither of jjesse or nixternal are around for Kubuntu
<mdke> Jim isn't here for Xubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> hey vorian , any status update on Kubuntu docs?
<vorian> not for sure
<vorian> I am somewhat confident that jjesse got an earlier start this cycle
<mdke> hey shaun
<shaunm> hi mdke
<shaunm> I just missed a mallard conversation?
<mdke> a fairly brief on :)
<mdke> I'll paste it in a msg
<shaunm> cool, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks vorian
<vorian> no problemo
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, anything else for this topic?
<mdke> ok, so on this item I'll propose we defer it to a meeting when the interested people are around
<mdke> it's difficult to say anything in the absence of the people working on Kubuntu and Xubuntu
<mdke> is anyone here interested in helping out on those projects for documentation?
<mdke> any contribution will be well received, I'm ure
<mdke> shall we move on for the time being?
<mdke> *sure
<Shane_Fagan> yep
<mdke> [ACTION] Defer to next meeting where Kubuntu/Xubuntu guy are around
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Defer to next meeting where Kubuntu/Xubuntu guy are around
<mdke> [TOPIC] Categories and SubPages for the Wiki Playbook: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiSandBox/CategoryConcept
<MootBot> New Topic:  Categories and SubPages for the Wiki Playbook: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiSandBox/CategoryConcept
<shaunm> hey, if you're going to discuss mallard further in another meeting, can somebody give me a ping over email?
<technomensch> I guess that brings me to the table of discussion
<mdke> shaunm: sure thing, this was kinda hung over from a previous meeting I think - but is there anything you would like to add now?
<DougieRichardson> shaunm sure can
<technomensch> I defer my time to shaunm if he has anything to add before we proceed
<mdke> thanks technomensch
<shaunm> nothing concrete.  I'd just like to hear the concerns from ubuntu, so I know what we need to address upstream
<mdke> from my point of view, I think it look good - my only concern would be adoption by more projects
<mdke> in particular, I'd be a bit concerned that people contributing to our team might have to learn more than one markup if they wanted to work on Gnome or KDE documents
<shaunm> right, I've talked to j1mc and nixternal about getting together for a face-to-face, since we're all pretty close to each other
<mdke> that would be great
<mdke> at the moment, not many people contribute to more than one "flavour" of Ubuntu, so it may not be a real concern I guess
<technomensch> perhaps a summary of that meeting might be beneficial
<mdke> generally, I think Mallard will be an improvement to Ubuntu becaue we'll have a greater ability to plug things into Gnome documents
<shaunm> technomensch: we'll definitely do a write-up if we manage to schedule a time and place
<mdke> I believe that KDE is due a rewrite of their help system
<mdke> a cross desktop help system would rock
<shaunm> agreed
<mdke> DocsKit
<Shane_Fagan> ha
<mdke> ok, let's shift back to the agenda item on wiki categories
<mdke> this is andrew_sayers' baby
<andrew_sayers> Well, it's more technomensch's.
<mdke> and technomensch
<mdke> ah, my bad
<technomensch> well, the whole thing started with my volunteering to develop the wiki playbook
<andrew_sayers> He came up with a what, I suggested a how :)
<technomensch> there wasn't that much to fix up from the last meeting, but I wanted to introduce an organizational structure and how editors should include it in their work
<technomensch> try to bring things under an umbrella like dome
<technomensch> so I brought it to the mailing list, and andrew came with a good idea.  I took his work, modified it to plain, laymen's english terms
<technomensch> and that wiki page is the culmination of that work
<technomensch> essentially, I got the idea from our current "tag" system
<technomensch> I think having "CategoryPrograms" "CategoryHardware" would make the urls tooo long
<technomensch> so we're recommending making higher level categories
<technomensch> without having to actually change the URLs
<technomensch> and if this is acceptable, we can make specific hug days for specific categories
<technomensch> like a week for programs, a week for hardware, etc....
<mdke> I still find the wiki page a bit difficult to understand presentationally
<technomensch> and try to knock out this organization and clean-up
<Rocket2DMn> I've been reading through this page for the last 15 min or so, and I still don't understand what is happening
<Daviey> .
<technomensch> let me try it a different way
<mdke> I *think* there is a good idea behind it
<technomensch> you know are "tag" system
<mdke> but the page needs some work to ensure that it can convince people and gets the idea across properly
<technomensch> where we "include" tags and use those links to make the tags that need work
<andrew_sayers> Would it be easier if you had a look at an example (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiSandBox/CategoryConcept/InstallingPrograms), then looked at the raw text, to see what page editors would have to add?
<technomensch> good suggestion andrew
<DougieRichardson> so what is the advantage of this approach?
<technomensch> easier to find docs, organization, structure
<andrew_sayers> Allows a hierarchy of categories.
<DougieRichardson> and potential disadvantages?
<technomensch> lack of participation
<technomensch> or understanding
<Rocket2DMn> This sounds like a high maintenance project
<DougieRichardson> in what way?
<mdke> I can definitely see the advantages in presentation because it allows the user to find quickly other pages in a similar category
<Shane_Fagan> It does look at lot easier to navigate
<mdke> the potential disadvantage is definitely the level of maintenance required
<technomensch> agreed matt
<mdke> but it could be made easier for users to create pages with that layout by using templates for new pages in a particular category
<technomensch> for a project of this size, it would be extremely difficult
<andrew_sayers> I'm not sure I understand the maintenance argument - can you give an example?
<technomensch> good suggestion matt
<DougieRichardson> how can we address that? What we be the maintenance issue - ensuring categories ae entered
<mdke> andrew_sayers: it's not actually that easy for users learning how to edit th wiki, who are already thrown by some of the markup, to understand what they need to do
<mdke> i think there will be a lot of inconsistent application of the idea throughout the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> These have to go and get applied to all existing pages, and made sure they are added to new pages.  I don't think we can expect new pages to use this, wiki history has shown as that people just make whatever they feel like
<technomensch> and my goal with the playbook is to make it as simple/easy as possible for new editors
<Rocket2DMn> That said, I do think we need something, I just find this difficult to understand
<andrew_sayers> mdke: Right, I see.  FWIW, adding a page to an existing category is only a smidgen different to the way it works at present.  But getting that fact across might be hard.
<DougieRichardson> is there anyway we can make the addition of category mandatory and can we then control what categories are available
<mdke> andrew_sayers: yeah, I'm not condemning the idea at all
<mdke> I have a couple of suggestions
<technomensch> dougie, I would think that could be set in a drop box??
<technomensch> what category it should be in, that is
<DougieRichardson> technomensch: that's what i thought
<mdke> the first is to do a bit of work on the spec page to make things a bit clearer to people reading
<Rocket2DMn> Are these new Categories designed to be used for pages about programs/applications?  What about more abstract pages?
<technomensch> we can make instructional/educational categories
<Shane_Fagan> Rocket2DMn: an other category maybe
<mdke> the second is to make the example pages and example category top level, rather than subpages of the spec itself, because that is one of the confusing things about the spec
<mdke> that's a small tweak
<technomensch> and create an example of a template page that would create a new page with the templates preinserted
<mdke> the third suggestion would be to list the intended categories, because I think this is a great chance to pin down how we use categories as opposed to tags
<technomensch> agreed
<technomensch> kinda of like a category flowchart
<Rocket2DMn> Ok.  Is this something wen can use to flag pages as applicable to different versions of Ubuntu as well?
<technomensch> there is a thought
<andrew_sayers> Could we add some content to the generic page template?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'd say no
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: because that would involve using the category concept for different types of function
<mdke> at the moment, it distinguishes pages with different subject matter
<Rocket2DMn> ok
<Rocket2DMn> So what about these series of pages - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Applications
<andrew_sayers> That would let us provide some default categories that people can choose from.
<mdke> (as opposed to the tag system, which deals with the editorial state of pages)
<technomensch> rocket, that type of page would be modified to fit this structure....
<technomensch> in other words, it wouldn't have to be managed manually
<mdke> andrew_sayers: yes, definitely
<technomensch> but rather, automatically via the moinmoin system
<Shane_Fagan> automatically is good
<technomensch> but that page is almost the perfect example
<Rocket2DMn> understood technomensch ,.  Current there are a couple of different attempts at organization conflicting on the wiki right now.  There was a SoftwareProject , and the Applications, etc.  I would love to get those cleaned up, probably in advance of implementing this new idea
<technomensch> because it has a well defined structure with subcategories
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: +1
<Rocket2DMn> I've been hesitant to act on those b/c I'm not sure which as still active, or which have been abandoned
<technomensch> well this would give us a chance to find out
<Rocket2DMn> Is duncan lithgow still around?
<mdke> I haven't seen him around for a while
<Rocket2DMn> I think he was implentning the Software/ pages (i.e. see the pages shown here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareProject )
<Rocket2DMn> that was supposed to be a change from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Applications/ProjectHome
<technomensch> do you guys think we'd be able to get some hands on deck for a few hug sessions if we break these categories up and solely focus on one at a time, rather than letting everyone run rampant
<mdke> yes, I think that would work
<mdke> but I think the spec needs some work first, so that it can become our "definitive" guide to using categories
<Rocket2DMn> that sounds good technomensch .  I think b/c attempts have been made in the past, we really need to make sure this one is going to work.  One of the best ways to ensure it's success is to clear out conflicting projects in advance
<technomensch> agreed
<mdke> technomensch, andrew_sayers - would you be prepared to work on the spec based on the feedback in this session and represent it at the next meeting or via the list?
<andrew_sayers> FWIW, it looks like the default "Describe PageName here." text is hard-coded in MoinMoin, so editing it is probably not practical.
<mdke> we could probably make a default template
<technomensch> I think that was part of the plan matt
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, on the subject of templates, the DocumentationTemplate seems to have been hijacked -https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DocumentationTemplate
<technomensch> ew
<andrew_sayers> Fine by me.  Unless people say otherwise, my plan would be to create four documents - "for readers", "for page authors", "for category authors", and "for administrators", where each adds more information.
<technomensch> good catch rocket
<technomensch> actually andrew, this is all going in the playbook
<DougieRichardson> Oh I remember him asking questions on the mailing list
<andrew_sayers> Then my plan is for you to do whatever you like ;)
<technomensch> well andrew, this is what I have in mind
<Rocket2DMn> technomensch, ill take the aciton to move that SAGE documentation, and revert to the real template
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: reverted, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> oh, ok
<technomensch> thanks
<technomensch> andrew, would you be game to look at the templates to see if you can get a model working?
<andrew_sayers> Sure.  Would it be better if we talk this through between ourselves after the meeting?
<technomensch> nod
<mdke> andrew_sayers: that sounds reasonably sensible, but presentationally, I think the spec needs to have some simple introductory explanation so that the concept is immediately clear
<technomensch> glad ot have a partner in crime
<mdke> good stuff
<mdke> it will be nice to sort out the use of categories
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, well this project sounds like it could work out once we get some clearer explanations and solid examples
<Shane_Fagan> agreed
<Rocket2DMn> I can take the task to go clean out the old conflicting projects if you want
<mdke> [ACTION] technomensch and andrew_sayers to work on developing the specification further in light of feedback provided
<MootBot> ACTION received:  technomensch and andrew_sayers to work on developing the specification further in light of feedback provided
 * Rocket2DMn is trigger happy with the delete button
<technomensch> rocket, yes, that would be a good project for the beginners team
<mdke> that sounds like quite a job
<Rocket2DMn> technomensch, it wouldnt really be a BT thing, they don't have the privileges to do that
<mdke> so awesome, Rocket2DMn gets it :)
<technomensch> but they can at least "mark for deletion" :)
<Rocket2DMn> thats true technomensch , though its probably just as easy for me to find them myself.  I'd much rather have BT people writing real documentation
<mdke> [ACTION] Rocket2DMn to review existing projects for categorising wiki pages, identify abandoned ones and do some serious cleanup
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Rocket2DMn to review existing projects for categorising wiki pages, identify abandoned ones and do some serious cleanup
<Rocket2DMn> I can brief you guys later on the Summer of Documentation if youre interested
<Rocket2DMn> we should finish our agenda first though
 * mdke nods
<DougieRichardson> I think that might be an idea.
<technomensch> just as long as it isn't the "Fall of Documentation"  <<rimshot>>
<mdke> next topic
<mdke> [TOPIC] Discussion about automating answers to common questions
<Rocket2DMn> well played technomensch
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion about automating answers to common questions
<mdke> andrew_sayers: you're up :)
<andrew_sayers> Okay, so there've been a few conversations on the ML lately around support and documentation...
<andrew_sayers> Automating support issues, turning common support issues into documentation, etc.
<andrew_sayers> And there's all sorts of ways we can look at it, but it depends on how much interest there is from people.
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<Shane_Fagan> Well there is a list of FAQs on launchpad can we take some of those.
<Rocket2DMn> thats a raised hand for a question
<andrew_sayers> Rocket2DMn: shoot.
<Rocket2DMn> Actually, not really a question, but more of a comment
<Rocket2DMn> Based on work that I've done on the forums, there have been attempts to create generic responses, or automate answers to questions
<Rocket2DMn> It has never really worked b/c every problem can be a little bit different.
<DougieRichardson> o/
<Rocket2DMn> I think the best way to answer people's "generic" questions is simply to write good, clear, and accessible documentation, which is what we alreday try to do
<Rocket2DMn> Then point users to it when they ask
 * mdke nods
<mdke> there are already quite a few projects like this, I think
<DougieRichardson> That's an interesting observation rocket2dmn because it appears to me that repeat questions are the most common questions on the forums.
<andrew_sayers> If you can get the manpower for that, that's fine, although the question then is how to actually get people to look at the documentation.
<Rocket2DMn> yeah DougieRichardson , that is true.  In which case we document it on the wiki and direct users to it
<mdke> we have the ubottu for irc faqs, launchpad and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions
<Shane_Fagan> It would be good if ubottu could point to FAQs on launchpad too
<andrew_sayers> This doesn't fit into a wider narrative, but it's worth pointing out that users' initial questions can be fairly information-free...
<mdke> andrew_sayers: in terms of your reference in the agenda item to irc, do you think the existing bot does a bad job or could be improved?
<DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn - support goes beyond the forums though - signposting strikes me as a good idea, in this case you can direct people to one page rather than a bunch
<andrew_sayers> Ranging from "can I ask a question" to "my sound doesn't work, what do I do?".  An automated system that gets them to better questions could have some value.
<mdke> (http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi for a list of the automated responses)
<mdke> those do a pretty good job at pointing at the authoritative doc for a particular subject
<andrew_sayers> mdke: I think the existing bot is useful for a particular job, but I'm thinking of something different for this...
<Rocket2DMn> DougieRichardson, isn't that the point of the homepages of h.u.c. and the system docs?
<DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn yes but are you saying that they couldn't be improved?
<Rocket2DMn> not at all DougieRichardson , we are always looking for ways to improve
<mdke> andrew_sayers: I think that if you have ideas for improving the irc experience, the best way to get them implemented or discussed is to explain them to the irc team
<DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn then I can't see the issue, signposting is an improvement to the current front page
<andrew_sayers> mdke: The existing bot automates the process of writing an answer once an informed human has decided on it, but doesn't take people out of the equation at all.
<mdke> andrew_sayers: you mean it's based on a trigger?
<andrew_sayers> And that it doesn't try to guess things based on input from question-askers.
<mdke> right
<Rocket2DMn> DougieRichardson, I would support improving the front page(s) of documentation, I just don't want to see it as a new/separate project
<DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn neither do I - where is that written?
<Rocket2DMn> I gathered that Signpost was a new/separate project.  Have I misunderstood?
<mdke> andrew_sayers: #ubuntu might get a bit crowded though if there was a lot of bot chatter without specific human triggering, but it's something to be suggested to the irc team
<andrew_sayers> Actually, I think starting with IRC is looking at it the wrong way to look at it - the issue is to see whether and how we can get more productivity out of a fixed number of supporters/support channels.  Whether that goes on IRC, the web, or something else comes later.
<technomensch> any good ideas over on the brainstorm?
<Shane_Fagan> Maybe if the bot sends the message privately to the person who asks the question
<DougieRichardson> rocket2dmn As discussed on the mailing list, that isn't necessarily the case, at least not the entire project
<DougieRichardson> brb switching laptops.
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, I must have missed that discussion, I was on vacation for a few weeks.  Sorry, I guess I'm just not up to speed.
<andrew_sayers> Rocket2DMn: the Signpost as a new non-documentation project, but the doc team expressed more interest than expected, so it's on the agenda next :)
<andrew_sayers> Er, the signpost *started* as a new non-documentation project...
<Rocket2DMn> Ah ok, I see.  Yeah, I agree that the homepage needs some work.  I wouldn't oversimplify it, but it could use some color and better organization
<andrew_sayers> Okay, so I think it might be good to put differently the question I wanted to ask...
<andrew_sayers> a) There's currently a lot of duplication of effort in the support forums.
<Shane_Fagan> andrew_sayers: +1 there
<technomensch> esp when cross-referenced with existing documentation
<andrew_sayers> b) Worse still, duplicate answers questions lead to a multitude of answers, some of which bad.
<andrew_sayers> c) A sufficiently frequently-asked question is by definition a support issue.
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, now you're really stepping into my realm of experience :)  I can address each of those points
<Shane_Fagan> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+faqs
<Rocket2DMn> a) Absolutely there is.  However, this isn't necessarily bad.  Supporters often reference existing documentation and combine it with their own experience to provide answers to questions.
<andrew_sayers> So would people be interested in spending time on finding ways to reduce the duplication of effort, and to get people to actually read the previous answers?
<Rocket2DMn> What did you have in mind for that andrew_sayers ?  In my experience ,people are going to come and ask questions, regardless of whehter its already documented
<Shane_Fagan> Rocket2DMn: in my experience they do that
<mdke> andrew_sayers: that's a totally loaded question - you can't answer it "no"
<Rocket2DMn> b) You're talking about quality control.  This is extremely difficult to manipulate except through continuing efforts to educate users
<mdke> it's what we do as the documentation team
<technomensch> as someone who works in tech support, I can definitely state that people will definitely not look for the doc if there is an easy place to go ask for help
<mdke> i.e. aim to produce reliable and definitive answers which can be used in the support arena
<Rocket2DMn> +1 mdke , many of the forum regulars rely heavily on existng documentation and direct users to them when applicable
<mdke> but reading the Flowq page, it's much more
<andrew_sayers> Rocket2DMn: Depends on how much interest there is from other people.  The three solutions I have right now are the signpost, a system for searching old #ubuntu logs, or a "20 questions" system, which would let you type your question in and try to match it with an answer.
<DougieRichardson> +1 technomensch
<Rocket2DMn> andrew_sayers, in response to c) absolutely, and we do try to document common problems.  Preferably this goes onto wiki pages, but also tends to go into forum guides and howtos
<Rocket2DMn> +1 technomensch
<Shane_Fagan> technomensch: +1
<Rocket2DMn> andrew_sayers, i like the idea of updating the front page of the help wiki (which is part of Signpost I guess)
<andrew_sayers> mdke: I'm not making myself clear.  I'm not asking for interest in providing answers, but in developing new platforms and/or modifying current platforms to get answers to people.
<Rocket2DMn> Your second point about searching old #ubuntu logs probably won't work well because things change, and if you've ever been in #ubuntu, you've seen how chaotic that is
<Rocket2DMn> however, i think i have heard of attempts to use irc logs to gather such information
<mdke> andrew_sayers: right. But the idea that all Ubuntu support resource (irc, Launchpad, forums, whatever) can improve by using flowchart methodology is quite an ambitious one
<Rocket2DMn> finally, you're "20 questions" systems sounds like a FAQ page
<andrew_sayers> About searching #ubuntu - maybe, although presenting just a single conversation *might* be possible.
<mdke> andrew_sayers: have you been in touch with the Launchpad developers about it? I think that is the arena which would be most susceptible to ideas
<Shane_Fagan> Maybe if launchpad could suggest the answer from the FAQ
<technomensch> I think we're starting to get into a seemantic web search discussion, where such a search engine for plain english answers is not yet available.
<andrew_sayers> The "flowchart" and "20 questions" models can both be seen as search interfaces to a FAQ, if you want to see it that way.
<Shane_Fagan> well it wouldnt take much effort to write a search of IRC logs forum treads and questions on launchpad
<andrew_sayers> mdke: To answer your specific question, I've not contacted the LP guys yet because I'm not yet sure what the proposal would be.  It depends on whether it's just me, or other people too.
<Shane_Fagan> andrew_sayers: Id support anything that would streamline ubuntu answers
<Shane_Fagan> so ill help you out with it if you want
<popey> andrew_sayers: i have been trying to work on something similar, separately for a few months
<popey> andrew_sayers: so I'd be happy to help if I could
<mdke> andrew_sayers: my initial reaction is that although there might be ways to improve the specific support resources available, this is so ambitious an idea that it would be pretty complex to apply over the different resources available
<Rocket2DMn> well if you had to ask me about answers.launchpad.net, I think it should just redirect to ubuntuforums.org :)  I really do think it is a duplicate resource.  That said, I think the users who provide support on LP usually give better answers
<mdke> andrew_sayers: and the social issues of trying to convince the different resources to change their methodology are likely to be also pretty steep :)
<andrew_sayers> Thanks Shane.  So how about this for an action - Shane, Popey and I go and work out something simple, that can be implemented in a few weeks.  When that's done, we show it off and see if we can get some interest.  If so, we'll start work on a bigger, bolder version 2, with more ambition?
<andrew_sayers> Also, thanks popey :)
<popey> np
<DougieRichardson> +1
<Shane_Fagan> Sure
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, that was my feeling also when it started. I think that Mark's idea is to see if features can be developed that go beyond the usual web forum idea
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, I can see that.  For instance, I like the highlighting of answers that are marked as the one that solved the problem.  Bug, I digress.
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: drawing on the other areas of Launchpad and so on
<mdke> andrew_sayers: ok, agreed
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, it is nice to convert bugs -> questions, file them under packages, etc
<technomensch> matt, you mean andrew
 * mdke nods at Rocket2DMn 
<mdke> technomensch: huh?
<technomensch> "I think that Mark's idea is to see if features can be developed that go beyond the usual web forum idea"
<mdke> technomensch: I was referring to the Launchpad Answers project
<technomensch> I was only saying that this whole concept sounded like the seamantic web concept
<technomensch> oh
<technomensch> oopsie
<Rocket2DMn> I don't think LP answers would work on a large scale - most people don't care to be that close to the development arena.  They just want their problem fixed - they don't care about what package it applies to, or interfacing directly with developers
<Rocket2DMn> you would get a drop in quality if too many people started using it
<andrew_sayers> I suspect LP answers is more useful for small projects, where people in the know don't use the forums.
<mdke> [ACTION] Shane, Popey and I go and work out something simple, that can be implemented in a few weeks.  When that's done, we show it off and see if we can get some interest.  If so, we'll start work on a bigger, bolder version 2, with more ambition
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Shane, Popey and I go and work out something simple, that can be implemented in a few weeks.  When that's done, we show it off and see if we can get some interest.  If so, we'll start work on a bigger, bolder version 2, with more ambition
<mdke> damn
<Rocket2DMn> yeah andrew_sayers , that is a good point.  It can work well for projects hosted on LP, but not for Ubuntu in general
<mdke> [ACTION] Shane, Popey and andrew_sayers go and work out something simple, that can be implemented in a few weeks.  When that's done, we show it off and see if we can get some interest.  If so, we'll start work on a bigger, bolder version 2, with more ambition
<Shane_Fagan> Ok good
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Shane, Popey and andrew_sayers go and work out something simple, that can be implemented in a few weeks.  When that's done, we show it off and see if we can get some interest.  If so, we'll start work on a bigger, bolder version 2, with more ambition
<mdke> ok, let's move on
<mdke> maybe one last agenda item, the meeting has been going awhile :)
<Shane_Fagan> +1
<mdke> [TOPIC] Discussion about the new draft of the HUC front page, which adds the Ubuntu Signpost, and removes a lot of other content
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion about the new draft of the HUC front page, which adds the Ubuntu Signpost, and removes a lot of other content
<Shane_Fagan> I think this has already been covered ?
<andrew_sayers> I hope this won't take too long.  Basically, what are the remaining objections to updating the front page?
<mdke> none here
<DougieRichardson> nor here
<Shane_Fagan> nope
<andrew_sayers> Okay, that was easy :)
<technomensch> <<hits saples button>>
<Shane_Fagan> mdke: maybe 1 more topic
<mdke> I'll reply on the list to andrew_sayers' last post because I'd like to develop a bit further the structural ideas of the signpost
<mdke> but it's too long for this evening I think
<mdke> Shane_Fagan: yeah
<andrew_sayers> mdke: update the front page in the meantime, or not?
<mdke> andrew_sayers: yeah, sure
<andrew_sayers> Right, good.  Structure etc. may depend on the result of the previous item.
<mdke> [TOPIC] Discussion of the use of screencasts in Ubuntu documentation, and the future of screencasts.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion of the use of screencasts in Ubuntu documentation, and the future of screencasts.ubuntu.com
<popey> this could be a long one
<popey> I dont mind bumping to the next meeting given how late it is
<popey> or take it back to the list
 * popey is easy
<technomensch> I motion this be moved to its own separate meeting at a later time
<Shane_Fagan> Maybe move it to the list
 * DougieRichardson nods
<mdke> alright
<mdke> just to note that there has always been a lot of enthusiasm for integrating screencasts with the docs
<popey> i can mail the list with the "vision" I have for screencasts in ubuntu docs and we can take it from there?
<Rocket2DMn> sounds good to me
<mdke> popey: great idea
<Shane_Fagan> popey: +1
<Daviey> prediscussion can't be a bad thing :)
<popey> thanks for your input Daviey :)
<mdke> [ACTION] popey to email the list with his vision for screencasts in the docs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to email the list with his vision for screencasts in the docs
<Daviey> popey: :)
<Shane_Fagan> Id like to get involved in the screencasts team too
<mdke> I think implementing screencasts in the docs will be the easy part
<mdke> the hard part is the screencast project itself, I guess
<popey> yup
<technomensch> it's the actually making the screecasts that would be hard part
<Shane_Fagan> mdke: so is that it?
<mdke> right
<mdke> hmm?
<Shane_Fagan> The end of the meeting
<mdke> ah, for the meeting
<mdke> yes, let's wrap it up, unless there are objections
<andrew_sayers> Actually, one quick thing - Shane_Fagan and popey, how would you prefer for us to talk?
<popey> however, I'm everywhere
<Shane_Fagan> Email for me
<mdke> popey is the most online person around
<popey> :)
<Daviey> mdke: popey is made up of 3 people.
<Rocket2DMn> lol
<popey> Daviey: I know it may _look_ like that..
<mdke> that's what I figured
<technomensch> in 3 dif time zones even
<mdke> covers all the timezones
<mdke> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:51.
<Rocket2DMn> \o/ we survived!
<mdke> I'll do the log/summary and post to the list
<popey> thanks mdke
<technomensch> now that the meeting is over, just thought you'd like to know I threw up a checklist
<mdke> thanks everyone
<technomensch> for the categories project
<Rocket2DMn> technomensch, link?
<technomensch> the same concept page
 * DougieRichardson waves goodnight
<Rocket2DMn> cool
<technomensch> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiSandBox/CategoryConcept
<Shane_Fagan> mdke: Could you help me out with the video editing docs, im a little stuck on dockbook
<mdke> Shane_Fagan: let's move to #ubuntu-doc
<technomensch> I think I got everything
<Shane_Fagan> sure
 * mdke out
<technomensch> nite all.  andrew, we'll talk later
 * DougieRichardson out
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-02
<hello> ææ²¡æè¯´ä¸­æçï¼
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-03
<TheHorse> screen -list
<zkriesse> g'day all
<nisshh> zkriesse: hey
<zkriesse> Hello nisshh
<wers> hello
<nisshh> wers: hey, you one of the other guys going for membership tonight?
<wers> nisshh, yep
<nisshh> wers: same with me :)
<ejat> gday all
<wers> nisshh, good luck to us :)
<nisshh> wers: yea :)
<lifeless> hi
<zkriesse> hello lifeless
<nisshh> wers: isnt the meeting supposed to be now?
<wers> nisshh, I think, it is
<nisshh> lifeless: hey
<nisshh> wers: i wonder where vantrax is, he is usually the one doing it
<ejat> nisshh: vantrax not very well ..
<nisshh> ejat: ah, do we know who is doing the meeting then?
<ejat> lifeless: will u chair the meeting ? or elky ?
<lifeless> ejat: I'm barely conscious;) I plead jetlag from the platform rally
<zkriesse> argh
<ejat> lifeless: :)
 * ejat pokes elky
<nisshh> ejat: are there enough people from the membership board here to actually have the meeting?
<lifeless> nisshh: we'll know in a bit
<nisshh> lifeless: right
<zkriesse> patience ya'll
 * nisshh doesnt have much :)
 * nisshh is too excited
 * quail has to have suppa soon
<nisshh> quail: dont let me keep you here
<nisshh> :)
<quail> o.0
<lifeless> hmmm
<zkriesse> hmm
<lifeless> who here is on the board ?
<lifeless> 20 minutes in we should either call it or do it
<zkriesse> I'm not on the board but I'm a member if that helps at all
<lifeless> it doesn't,  but thanks.
<zkriesse> Yeah I know
 * zkriesse cheers for the applicants
<nisshh> :)
<wers> yey.haha
 * ejat lifeless and elky ? = 3
<nisshh> havent heard from elky yet
<zkriesse> What the hell happened to Vantrax?
<nisshh> zkriesse: sick apparently
<zkriesse> Ah
 * zkriesse hates colds and such
<nisshh> he was probably like "oh no, nisshh is going for membership *play dead*"
<zkriesse> lol
 * nisshh hopes vantrax doesnt read the logs after that....
<quail> heh
<zkriesse> He probably will
<zkriesse> And he'll laugh like no tomorrow
<nisshh> yea, hehe :)
<nisshh> NOTE TO VANTRAX: IT WAS A JOKE :)
<zkriesse> ROFLMAO
<quail> nisshh: sorry mate my suppa is on the table
<nisshh> quail: its cool, plenty of others here, thanks for coming for part of it anyway :)
<quail> nisshh: np
<nisshh> :)
<wers> uhmm..
<nisshh> wers: what is it?
<wers> nisshh, does this mean that we'll postpone?
<nisshh> wers: no idea atm
<nisshh> ejat: whats happening dude?
<nisshh> lifeless: ^^^
<ejat> lifeless: ? looks like .. seem it not enough quorum
<lifeless> I think so
<lifeless> ejat: only what, 3 of us here?
<nisshh> postponed?
<lifeless> not quorum
<lifeless> sorry, not quorate
<nisshh> ejat: are you postponing or what?
<ejat> lifeless: ya call ?
 * thorwil comes back from lunch and cheers for nisshh and wers, quorum or not
<wers> hi thorwil ! :)
<nisshh> yay thorwil!
<lifeless> ejat: I think we should call it
<lifeless> ejat: d you want to mail the list ?
<mc44> it's a shame whoever's idea it was to have big regional membership boards to make it more likely people would turn up didn't also think to point out that sticking to a rigid quorum rather defeats the object ;(
<lifeless> mc44: its not that the quorum is that rigid
<lifeless> and we can, and do pull in other board members
<lifeless> its that there are only 2 of us around tonight, for whatever reason.
<nisshh> lifeless: so postponed im guessing?
<lifeless> yes
<nisshh> oh well, when is the next meeting likely to be lifeless ?
<lifeless> 2 weeks
<lifeless> for this board
<nisshh> ok
<wers> okay. see you
<nisshh> so me and wers will get to have another go then im guessing?
<ejat> nisshh: yups ..
<nisshh> ejat: ok, hopefully there will be enough board members the next time :)
<ejat> nisshh: yeah .. i hope so ..
<nisshh> heh
<loell> has the meeting done already? didn't make it in time. and the logs doesn't show much.
<ejat> loell: the meeting got postpone
<loell> I see, thanks ejat :)
<ejat> welcome ..
<elky> Sorry. Was commuting. Stayed back a bit later than I meant to.
<NCommander> #startmeering
<davidm> G'day NCommander
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> mornign davidm
<dyfet> morning NCommander
<NCommander> [topic] Rollcar
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rollcar
<NCommander> [topic] Roll call
<NCommander> wow
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll call
<NCommander> I need caffiene
<NCommander> who's here?
<mpoirier> mpoirier
 * GrueMaster 
<NCommander> ogra: ping?
<ogra> yep
<NCommander> ok, good
<lag> o/
<NCommander> [topic]] Acion Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic: ] Acion Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100803#preview
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100803#preview
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer
<NCommander> c/o
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to re-enable the lucid efl session
<ogra> done
<ogra> well
<NCommander> cool
<ogra> the package is in the seeds, still needs adjustments of the settings
<ogra> but i cant test build any images atm
<NCommander> [topic] mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source
<MootBot> New Topic:  mpoirer to coordinate with sarkoman or TI internal sources to get branch with "factory" bootloader source
<ogra> mpoirier, ?
<mpoirier> yes
<ogra> the above was your topic (even though your name is spelled wrong)
<ogra> done or carry over ?
<mpoirier> hold on.
<mpoirier> I got in touch with TI.
<mpoirier> very hard to get image.
<mpoirier> got git tree
<ogra> ah, great
<mpoirier> recompiled but can't get to the same result.
<ogra> how did you recompile ?
<ogra> native or cross ?
<mpoirier> cross.
<ogra> that might be an issue
<mpoirier> yes i know.
 * ogra would recommend a native build
<mpoirier> given the facts, i doubt it will ever be possible to get to the same image.
<mpoirier> was a very loose process at the time @ TI
<mpoirier> placed this on hold.
<NCommander> ok, c/oked
<NCommander> can I move on?
<mpoirier> I've started looking at power management and effect on SDHC card.
<ogra> i think lag did the same today
<ogra> sitting in fron ogf his unbootable XM :)
<lag> :(
<mpoirier> currently, CONFIG_CPU_IDLE and CONFIG_SRAM_IDLE configs are removing hte problem.
<mpoirier> narrowed it down to Power management 'governors' .
<mpoirier> they are power management algorithms.
<mpoirier> still investigating.
<mpoirier> ...
<ogra> they are also needed by tools like iotop
<ogra> (the above settings)
<mpoirier> both are not set in upstream
<mpoirier> I've reproduced the problem in upstream by enabling the flags.
<ogra> right, but try to fire up iotop on a beagle
<mpoirier> it is not only isolated to ubuntu's code base.
<NCommander> can you twotake it offline and report back?
<ogra> would be good to have that ability at some point before final release
<ogra> to research the SD slowness issues in userspace
<ogra> NCommander, yeah, move on
<rsalveti> yep, it's important for beagle
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> NCommander, what about your items, can you either implement or postpone them?
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpa-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpa-3.html
<ogra> and why is that the wrong link again
<ogra> i thought we updated the agenda a while ago
<ogra> ah
<NCommander> ogra: I will postpone them
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-alpha-3.html
<ogra> NCommander, is it likely that you get to them ?
<ogra> for this release ?
<ogra> if so, please dont postpone but milestone against beta
<NCommander> ogra: yes, since we're going to need them, but A3 will likely slide
<ogra> k
<ogra> then dont postpone, just move them to beta
<NCommander> will do
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<cooloney> yeah
<lag> * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * GIT PULL : GIT PULL has been sent out for review
<lag>    * PATCH    : 92 delta patches have been identified and rebased on top of our mvl-dove tip
<lag>    * MISC     : Received update from Marvell for Dove LSP 5.3.2
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * MISC     : Freescale are helping to figure out the root cause of the bricked boards
<lag>    * PATCH    : We have a patch to fix a PMIC issue. Related to above
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * GIT PULL : TIs pull request has been rejected by rtg due to coding style issues
<lag>    * PATCH    : 240+ patches received from TI. Fully tested and works fine
<lag>    * ON GOING : B591941 disabling CONFIG_CPU_FREQ and CONFIG_CPU_IDLE cures the issue
<lag>    * WONT FIX : B571663 this hardware is not supported by us and we have no spare time to help
<lag> ..
<ogra> looks good
<ogra> NCommander, ?
<ogra> lag, oh
<lag> ?
<ogra> what about the patches from rcn-ee ?
<ogra> will you include them ?
<lag> What patches?
<ogra> the ones we discussed this morning ?
<lag> I haven't even looked
<lag> Didn't he say they were unfixed?
<lag> finished*
<ogra> well, the one that makes the mmc RW surely is ok to at least get someting out of  the XMs
<lag> He said he still has cleaning up to do
<lag> I don't want to put dirty patches into our kernel
<ogra> i want to be able to use our hardware :)
<lag> Then add the patches yourself ;)
<lag> Where is the bug?
<ogra> if we start testing XMs by beta there is not much we can fix anymore
<ogra> i'm waiting for new images, then i'll file a bug
<lag> I can't do a lot until you do
<lag> When you do, assign me and I'll get it done
<lag> ..
<ogra> lag, though rcn-ee is a very valuable source for fixes wrt omap3
<lag> I've noticed
<ogra> k
<ogra> NCommander, move ?
<ogra> NCommander, HELLO!
<ogra> NCommander, HELLO?
<ogra> NCommander, did you fall asleep ?
<ogra> hrm
<GrueMaster> I pinged his cell.
<GrueMaster> In the mean time, QA Status.
<GrueMaster> Bugs needing attention before A3:
<GrueMaster> Bug #605972 - Need to set hostname to ubuntu during first boot.
<GrueMaster> Bug #600359 - ureadahead generating oom messages during boot.
<GrueMaster> Bug #605831 - [omap3] Resolution should be taken from /proc/cmdline if provided
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605972 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Need to set hostname to ubuntu during first boot." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605972
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605831 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Resolution should be taken from /proc/cmdline if provided" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605831
<ogra> 605972 doesnt really need attention
<ogra> thats just cosmetic
<rsalveti> yep
<GrueMaster> These are currently targetted for Alpha 3.
<ogra> not sure what to do about 600359
<GrueMaster> That's why I am mentioning them.
<ogra> yeah, thanks
<rsalveti> ureadahead always gives oom, still going to test on my c4 and try to trace why
<rsalveti> probably it's trying to allocate a big chunk of memory
<lag> Isn't bug 600359 fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600359 in ureadahead (Ubuntu Maverick) "ureadahead generating oom messages during boot." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600359
<ogra> rsalveti, yes, that was supposed to be fixed
<ogra> which is irritating
<GrueMaster> No, it still happens.
<ogra> GrueMaster, i know
<rsalveti> ogra: who was supposed to fix it?
<ogra> stil there was a fix uploaded to prevent massive ram usage
<lag> Search for "ureadahead patch" in the subject lines of the Kernel Team mailing list
<rsalveti> ok, nice
<ogra> right
<ogra> tim uploaded a fix
<lag> ogra: Correct
<ogra> though i dont know, it might be that there are also kernel side changes we're missing
<ogra> i'm not sure its all dont in ureadahead
<ogra> *done
<rsalveti> I can help tracing this, as I'm using beagle most of the time
<ogra> great
<ogra> still no NCommander
<GrueMaster> Are we no longer enabling swap on the beagle images?
<ogra> not atm
<NCommander>   Sorry, internet burped
<GrueMaster> No wonder my system is really sluggish.
<NCommander> and kicked me off, had to reset the router
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra> GrueMaster, Bug 605739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605739 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "BUG: Bad page state in process swapper pfn:94d23" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605739
<ogra> that seems to be fixed now
<bilalakhtar> is this the DMB meeting?
<bilalakhtar> so early?
<ogra> bilalakhtar, ARM meeting
<NCommander> bilalakhtar: it starts at 10 EST (25 minutes)
<bilalakhtar> ogra: thanks
<GrueMaster> ogra: I think I was seeing that in yesterday's image still.
<ogra> GrueMaster, yeah, i dont think cooloney applied the fix yet to any binary in the archive
<ogra> GrueMaster, would yo mind testing the kernel he provides at the bug
<GrueMaster> Then it is open until then.
<GrueMaster> Will do.
<rsalveti> but it seems that this fix only omap4
<rsalveti> am I  right?
<GrueMaster> It's an smp bug, so yes.
<rsalveti> so why this is affecting beagle?
<ogra> might be
<ogra> rsalveti, is it affecting beagle ?
<rsalveti> <GrueMaster> Are we no longer enabling swap on the beagle images?
<GrueMaster> Different issue.
<rsalveti> oh, ok then :-)
<ogra> i switched it off generally
<rsalveti> ok, that explains
<rsalveti> ok, move on
<ogra> at the time the bug arose jasper didnt have any arch detection
<ogra> NCommander, move
<rsalveti> makes sense
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> (unless your inet has digesting probs again)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<GrueMaster> I need to figure out why I am not seeing these test requests.
<NCommander> I'm going to get KDE fixed this week or next I hope
<ogra> GrueMaster, everyone in ubuntu-armel should get the bugmails
<dyfet> well, last week there were ups and downs in the archive, but kdelibs finally became rebuildable
<ogra> telepathy-glib returned ?
<ogra> also mutter
<ogra> and commons-daemon
<dyfet> mutter is messy, I will check telepathy-glib to see why its back
<ogra> dyfet, please handle these with prio
<Riddell> KDE just blocked on kdebindings for ARM now
<ogra> even though we dont use clutter, the bits and pieces need to work do TI can test
<ogra> s/do/so/
<ogra> and linaro :)
<dyfet> (kdebindings) This is because the sip bindings for qt use double, and double has to be cast to QReal
<dyfet> (for armel)
<ogra> dyfet, yes, that will be fixed once NCommander applied the upstream fix to QT
<dyfet> ahh, okay
<ogra> (which we are discussion nearly the whole release now)
<NCommander> dyfet: the problem is that someone removed the check from the cmake ile to handle this and hasn't passed in the option to make it wokr
<NCommander> ogra: there will be no upstream fix for this forthcoming anytime soon.
<ogra> sigh
<ogra> NCommander, does asac know ?
<ogra> linaro wont make their targets i assume without that fix
<NCommander> ogra: yes. As I told both you, there's no easy way to incorperate the fix at this time, until Qt breaks their ABI or we do something hacky
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
 * NCommander has nothing to report
<ogra> images build again since the weekend
<ogra> a lot faster now
<GrueMaster> 20100803 failed.
<ogra> image resizing is down to less than 1min now with the new filesystem setup
<ogra> GrueMaster, yes, that issue is fixed, but we have new ones, the efl stack was updated
<ogra> which lets the images fail for a while until all is sorted
<NCommander> anything else, or can I move on?
<ogra> i'd like to get bugs about the panel stuff etc
<ogra> since the settings package hasnt seen any fine adjustment yet
<ogra> so as soon as we have images again, please test images and file bugs :)
<ogra> thats all for image builds
<GrueMaster> I'll file them as soon as I can get to them.  I'm going to do a package update on 0802 to get there.
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<rsalveti> just about rootstock
<rsalveti> got a new release last week
<rsalveti> and it's in the archive already
<rsalveti> so, if feel free to test it and report any issues you find
<NCommander> closing out in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:49.
<czajkowski> ogra: meeting later on mail sent for reminder
<ogra> czajkowski, yup, thanks for the surprise :)
<ogra> (i had forgotten about it)
<czajkowski> ogra: wel you're not in that channel so I can't poke you :)
<bilalakhtar> stgraber: ping
<bilalakhtar> Do we have a DMB meeting now or after an hour?
<bilalakhtar> ogra: This meeting was of the Ubuntu Mobile team, right? Then, the next meeting should be that of DMB. But leading DMB members are not here
<bilalakhtar> cody-somerville: ping
<shadeslayer> coolbhavi: dont be :P
<coolbhavi> shadeslayer, thanks!
 * shadeslayer gives coolbhavi candy bar
<shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: best of luck to you too!
<shadeslayer> coolbhavi: poke me when the meeting begins :D
<coolbhavi> shadeslayer, sure!
<shadeslayer> i want to see how they grill people :P
<Damascene> hi,
<Damascene> what is the meeting about?
<shadeslayer> Damascene: we have 2 MOTU applicants and 1 CDA
<Damascene> really, sounds cool
<bilalakhtar> shadeslayer: Thanks!
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: Hi!
<bilalakhtar> Damascene: Assalam alaikum
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, hey all the best!
<Damascene> bilalakhtar, wa alikom alsalam wa rahmatu allah
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: I feel sorry for you being physically challenged
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: I can't believe you have uploaded 950+ packages
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, hey thats no problems for me
<coolbhavi> :)
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: If I were you, I would have applied for MOTU when my uploads touched 40
<bilalakhtar> You waited till 900, coolbhavi
<coolbhavi> :)
<coolbhavi> lets see!
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: MOTU is a piece of cake for you
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: is this the first time you are applying?
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, 2nd time 1st time it was deferred due to my own personal work
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: that was when?
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, back in feb
<bilalakhtar> that early?
<bilalakhtar> Sary: Assalam alaikum
<bilalakhtar> persia: ping
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, I hadnt had enough time to apply as was busy with electrical engineering stuff
<Sary> bilalakhtar, Wa Alykum Alsalam , how you do bro
<bilalakhtar> Sary: I am applying for UBuntu Contributing Developer, so I am here
<Sary> Aha , great .. how is it going
<geser> cjwatson, soren, persia, cody-somerville, stgraber: DMB meeting!
<bilalakhtar> Sary: chat in #ubuntu-sa and not here
<persia> \o
<stgraber> I'm around, though I'll have to leave in around 25 minutes
 * mathiaz waves
<stgraber> hey mathiaz
<juli_> Hi everybody! I've mailed the DMB recently but it looks like the message is still in the moderation queue. So may I ask my question here?
<persia> juli_: Go ahead
<juli_> persia, thanks! I'm working on updating NetBeans packages in Ubuntu from 6.8 to 6.9 and I'm almost blocked because of a massive lack of reviewers on REVU
<juli_> dholbach kindly advised me to ask DMB if I can just go and upload those new packages
<juli_> since I'm a member of ubuntu-dev since Aug 2009
<persia> juli_: Ah, yeah.  If the source names are changing, we ought update your permissions: this shouldn't require REVU.
<juli_> no, I need to upload 4 new packages. 2 of them are already reviewed by dholbach but I can't find another advocations
<juli_> NetBeans requires new external libraries:(
<bilalakhtar> When will the meeting begin? It is time, right?
<geser> bilalakhtar: when we have quorum
<persia> bilalakhtar: We're waiting for more DMB members: we can't take any decisions right now.
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Welcome
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: hi. I assume nothing has started yet?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: no
<coolbhavi> tumbleweed, hey
 * bilalakhtar is getting nervous
<tumbleweed> I think a couple of people may be at debconf...
<juli_> persia, should I wait for some decision or there is no chance and it is better to go on to look for reviewers ?
 * bilalakhtar is anxiously waiting for more DMB members to join
<bilalakhtar> There go two more DMB members ^^
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: looks like we are heading towards darkness
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, relax mate
<coolbhavi> lets wait
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: we are 20 minutes behind schedule
<coolbhavi> persia, any news?
<persia> news?  I'm unsure.  I just lost connectivity.
 * bilalakhtar is anxiously waiting for more DMB members, as he was waiting for this meeting for weeks
<coolbhavi> okay!
<juli_> persia, should I wait for some decision about NB or there is no chance to get upload permissions and it is better to go on to look for reviewers ?
<persia> juli_: As the packages are in the archive, I would expect that adding them to the permissions  set would be simple.  For adding the packages, I personally believe that peer review is valuable, but as a member of ubuntu-devel, you can decide to upload anyway if it's blocking you otherwise.
<cjwatson> hi, sorry, I got collared by somebody at the conference
<cjwatson> and connectivity is awkward
<juli_> persia, ok thanks! in this case I'll find at least one reviewer for them, then upload and ask for permissions later on.
<stgraber> I'm really sorry but I'll have to leave in 5 minutes or so ...
<cjwatson> can we see what we can do in five minutes then?  we have quorum, briefly
<cjwatson> perhaps we can look at bilalakhtar's, which is out of sequence but ought to be quick?
<bilalakhtar> thanks cjwatson
<stgraber> I'm fine with that
<cjwatson> I notice that coolbhavi had some criticism in a comment to the effect that you needed to be a bit more careful when handling merges; do you understand the specific problems he's referring to here?
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: yes
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: I have improved a lot since then
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: that comment was about my early merges
<cjwatson> it's hard to pick out timestamps :)
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, he has improved a lot
<cjwatson> what do you do to determine whether merged changes are still needed?
<persia> Hrm?  I thought that was something in the last revision (from yesterday)
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: debdiff from latest debian package
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: and read the diff
<cjwatson> well, there are some changes that might be discarded if they're all that's left, right?
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: if we can drop the diffs, because the changes have been accepted in debian or they are no longer required, then we can request sync
<cjwatson> anyone have any further questions?
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: But the meeting hasn't begun formally, right?
<cjwatson> oh meh
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:30. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> has now :P
<iamfuzz> lol
<cjwatson> (formality is merely a crutch, not an end in itself)
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: I think now you need to set topic and link
<cjwatson> no I don't
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: What's going on here?
<cjwatson> please don't try to manage the meeting for us
<cjwatson> [vote] Bilal Akhtar for universe-contributors
<bilalakhtar> cjwatson: sorry
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Bilal Akhtar for universe-contributors.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> #endvote
<cjwatson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<iamfuzz> bilalakhtar, congrats!
<bilalakhtar> Thanks iamfuzz
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, :)
 * persia would like to suggest mathiaz's item if we have time for another, as there are other applications potentially dependent.
<stgraber> congrats bilalakhtar. I now have to leave, sorry everyone.
<bilalakhtar> Thanks everyone!
<stgraber> cody-somerville: around ?
<stgraber> soren said he wouldn't attend and nixternal isn't in the chan.
<bilalakhtar> stgraber: I pinged him 2 hours ago, he didn't reply
<bilalakhtar> him is cody-somerville
<cjwatson> we may be out of luck if Cody's not around
<persia> Indeed :(
 * bilalakhtar now has to eat, will idle around
<coolbhavi> persia, :(
<cjwatson> ah, Cody also sent mail saying he had a conflicting meeting
<geser> Cody mailed that he isn't around (same for soren)
<cjwatson> I think then that regrettably we'll have to call it a day here.  sorry I was late arriving
<cjwatson> I'll try to process election nominations this week and get elections for a new DMB member moving forward
<persia> cjwatson: Thanks
<coolbhavi> cjwatson,  so the motu applications are on aug 17th?
<geser> coolbhavi: yes, assuming we have quorum on that day
<coolbhavi> okay geser
<cjwatson> juli_: regarding your request, I'm afraid that we can't add per-package upload permissions for packages not in the archive yet, so we are technically unable to grant your request until they're in the archive; persia said that he'd help out with that
<cjwatson> (which I think is sort of what's in scrollback but I just wanted to clarify for the record)
<geser> cjwatson: did you manage to get some of your action items done (or should they stay on the agenda for the next meeting)?
<cjwatson> mathiaz,coolbhavi,iamfuzz: apologies for the wasted time here
<mathiaz> cjwatson: no worries
<iamfuzz> cjwatson, no worries, it happens
<cjwatson> geser: I think I did both, but let me just double-check
<iamfuzz> see you on the 17th
<mathiaz> cjwatson: have fun at Debconf :)
<shadeslayer> coolbhavi: bilalakhtar awww :(
<cjwatson> hm, maybe I did not
<coolbhavi> cjwatson, no problems see the DMB on 17th :)
<cjwatson> >>> sorted(set([p.name for p in lp.packagesets]))
<cjwatson> ['cli-mono', 'core', 'desktop-core', 'edubuntu', 'kernel', 'kubuntu', 'langpack', 'mobile', 'mozilla', 'mythbuntu', 'netbook', 'ubuntu-desktop', 'ubuntu-server', 'ubuntustudio', 'unr', 'xubuntu', 'zope']
<geser> no sugar and no network-manager yet
<bilalakhtar> shadeslayer: atleast I became one
<shadeslayer> bilalakhtar: oh congrats
<shadeslayer> i just saw that qourum can not be reached
<shadeslayer> :P
<geser> cjwatson: no problem, I leave them on the agenda and we can review on next meeting
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: congrats. hope to sponsor more work from you soon :)
 * geser updates the agenda
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Thanks everyone
<cjwatson> geser: thanks
<juli_> cjwatson, ok, thanks! I'll talk to persia then
<bilalakhtar> exit
<bilalakhtar> sorry
<cjwatson> geser: I've completed my actions now
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:59.
 * smb \o
<apw> o/
<cking> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<JFo> o/
<manjo> \o
<kamal> o/
<mpoirier> mpoirier o/
 * tgardner lurks
<jjohansen> \o
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<apw>  * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<apw>    * GIT PULL : GIT PULL has been sent out for review
<apw>    * PATCH    : 92 delta patches have been identified and rebased on top of our mvl-dove tip
<apw>    * MISC     : Received update from Marvell for Dove LSP 5.3.2
<apw>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<apw>    * MISC     : Freescale are helping to figure out the root cause of the bricked boards
<apw>    * PATCH    : We have a patch to fix a PMIC issue. Related to above
<apw>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<apw>    * GIT PULL : TIs pull request has been rejected by rtg due to coding style issues
<apw>    * PATCH    : 240+ patches received from TI. Fully tested and works fine
<apw>    * ON GOING : B591941 disabling CONFIG_CPU_FREQ and CONFIG_CPU_IDLE cures the issue
<apw>    * WONT FIX : B571663 this hardware is not supported by us and we have no spare time to help
<apw> ..
<lag> Thanks Andy
<lag> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 3 Milestoned Bugs (21 across all packages (down 19)) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (129 across all packages (up 2)) ====
<JFo>  * 25 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> === Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:128 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
<JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<tgardner> apw, didn't you fix the linux-meta-ti-omap issues?
<apw> tgardner, yes they are fixed at our end, we have a bug task open to make sure the archive admins remove the old packages
<apw> which they have yet to do as far as i know
<tgardner> ah
<tgardner> you could bug riddel who is on archive duty today
<apw> ack ..
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen> AppArmor has been pulled into security-next, and from there merged into linux-next.
<jjohansen> There are still some userspace log parsing fixes and cleanups to finish off
 * apw cheers
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> Nothing new to report.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> Tracking Maverick. I'm seeing quite a bit of interest lately, both for server issues as well as desktop.
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen> Maverick EC2 images are now using the -virtual kernel with pv-ops. This is working fairly well with the caveat of a few bugs
<jjohansen> Bug #613022, Bug #606373, Bug #612875
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613022 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh daemon hangs after publickey packet sent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613022
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 612875 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel in EC2 only boots from pv-grub " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/612875
<jjohansen> I am still investigating the pv-on-hvm drivers
<jjohansen> ..
 * apw cheers again ...
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> Nothing new to report this week.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<ogasawara> Nothing new to report this week.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<tgardner> are these still worthwhile agenda items ?
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> tgardner: the delta review really only has one item to review our ubuntu drivers
<ogasawara> tgardner: the config review I think we could drop
<apw> we don't really have a 'put this back on once in 8 weeks time' mode for the agenda
<apw> ..
<JFo> the bug handling I simply haven't worked on this past week :)
<JFo> ..
 * bjf will drop config-review
<tgardner> ok, I guess we can just keep ignoring them until the M+1 cycle starts
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> Readahead tracking patches are now applied to maverick and uploaded.  We also committed some grub framebuffer handling patches to help with the clean boot.
<apw> ..
<cking> sweet
<simar> Hi JFo. I'm in the meeting.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> * fwts 0.17.2 in maverick universe
<cking> * few minor bug fixes, PPA version 0.17.4
<cking> * automated build of USB stick image to run fwts tests
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
 * JFo cheers cking 
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> 2.6.35 final was released over the weekend.  As a result we did a last minute rebase and upload for Maverick, ie 2.6.35-14.19.  This is what will be included in the Alpha3 images.  Please test.
<ogasawara> Alpha 3 is this Thurs Aug 5th.  We are still above our Alpha 3 burn down chart's trend line.  If you still have open Alpha 3 work items that will not be completed by EOD tomorrow, push the item(s) out to -beta or mark it POSTPONED if it appears it won't be completed this cycle.
 * apw cheers ... yet again
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone maverick-alpha-3
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> Nothing changed since last week.
<smb> ..
<tgardner> maybe apw and jjohansen should give away some of their bugs or work items
<apw> tgardner, will review mine and see what can be shed ...
<jjohansen> tgardner: I will look at mine as well
<tgardner> apw, not all of yours are release critical
<apw> most are not, i wish there was a way to note the difference in the tooling ..
<jjohansen> though, some of the security related work items are going to get marked postponed
<tgardner> jjohansen, you're only showing 2 work items outstanding
<tgardner> I think we're in pretty good shape, despite the trend line
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 201 Maverick Bugs (up 30)
<JFo> 1124 Lucid Bugs (up 25)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 111 maverick bugs (up 5)
<JFo>   * 226 lucid bugs (up 5: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 43 lucid bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 6 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 181 lucid bugs (up 8)
<JFo>   * 44 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 19 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 4 lucid bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> The Bug Day for this week was cancelled due to sickness on my part over the last week. It was not announced, so I opted not to have it. I will send out a notice for the Bug Day for next week today. We will be focused on bugs that have been incorrectly set to the New state as well as removing duplicates on those we encounter that are not a complete hardware match. A secondary focus will be on tagging them with the relevant subsystem. We will contin
<JFo> ue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday, as these seem to be working out very well. Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<JFo> o/
<bjf> JFo, go
<JFo> for next weeks meeting I'll be adding a Triage topic
<JFo> so that we can discuss and recognize current events in the bug triage world
<JFo> fro now, I'd like to recognize simar for joining us
<bjf> you'd like me to add a triage topic
<JFo> if you don't mind :)
<apw> simar, welcome ...
<JFo> indeed, welcome simar :)
<JFo> I'd like to use this time during the meeting to recognize triagers and to further discuss items of a triage nature that do not fall easily into our format
<JFo> ..
<simar> JFo apw Thaks for welcoming :))
<apw> always nice to have new people involved
<JFo> we are very glad to have you
<apw> simar, do you have specific areas of interest ?
<bjf> I wanted to mention that at the beginning of each dev cycle I go through all the
<bjf> blueprints and add them all back on as agenda items. So we should feel free to
<bjf> drop any we don't want to keep looking at along the way.
<JFo> good call bjf
<bjf> ..
<bjf> anyone else?
<simar> I have seen agenda of the meeting. There I saw ARM, I have coded for motorola mc9x12x series of processors.
<simar> I have been worked on touchpad bugs for now. .
<apw> simar, nice ... you should come chat to us over on #ubuntu-kernel .... :)
<apw> bjf ..
<simar> apw: sure :)
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
<JFo> thanks bjf :)
<smb> bjf, thanks
<kamal> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<lag> o/
<simar> thanks.
<diwic> bjf, how does one drop a blueprint? I remember seeing one recently suggesting we package "polypaudio"...
<bjf> diwic, not sure i understand "drop a blueprint"
<bjf> diwic, you'd like it added to the agenda or you'd like to create one?
<diwic> bjf, you said "we should feel free to drop any we don't want to keep looking at"
<bjf> diwic, i was speaking with respect to them on the meeting agenda
<bjf> diwic, sorry i wasn't clear
<diwic> bjf, aha. Nevertheless we should really remove some obsolete blueprint stuff from launchpad
<diwic> bjf, if that's possible...
<bjf> diwic, don't know how to do that
<diwic> I fear it is not possible
 * manjo leaving
<ogasawara> diwic: I think in the blueprint itself you can set the status to obsolete etc.
<diwic> ogasawara, possibly, I guess I don't have permission to change other people's blueprints then
<ogasawara> diwic: ah probably not if you're not the owner
<diwic> ogasawara, while you're here, what is the easiest way to add a sign-off to another persons patch?
<ogasawara> diwic: for example, I'd add Signed-off-by: Leann Ogasawara <leann.ogasawara@canonical.com>
<diwic> ogasawara, I know the line and about "git commit --amend -s", but should I sync upstream, then rebase it to add the sign-off, then use git format-patch on the result?
<ogasawara> diwic: nah, just reply to the email and add your SOB.
<diwic> ok
<diwic> ogasawara, still lean
<diwic> still learning
<diwic> all patch workflows
<ogasawara> diwic: no worries.  I know each mailing list is probably different for how they want patches submitted.
<jiboumans> o/
<kirkland> o]=[
<SpamapS> sorry my clock is slow :p
 * mathiaz waves
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<jjohansen> \o
<mathiaz> I'll be leading and scribing this week
<jiboumans> kirkland looks like roadkill...
<mathiaz> so get prepared to rock da' house...
<hggdh> :-)
<SpamapS>  3 Aug 11:05:11 ntpdate[18138]: step time server 17.151.16.23 offset -298.781854 sec
<SpamapS> Hah, or fast.. take your pick. ;)
 * hggdh wishes to kill ntpdate
<ttx> \o
<smoser> \0
<RoAkSoAx> po/
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<RoAkSoAx> lol
 * kirkland kinda feels like roadkill
<mathiaz> allrighty
<Daviey> o/
<mathiaz> let's get started
<SpamapS>  /o._.o\
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's amazing agenda:
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting#preview
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] # Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  # Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<mathiaz> SpamapS to work with mathiaz on a proposal, and send proposal to -devel on ruby gems in ubuntu
<mathiaz> work in progress
<jiboumans> any progress to report? it's been moved twice so far
<mathiaz> I think we've got something ready - SpamapS ?
<SpamapS> Its just about done
<SpamapS> mathiaz provided me with valuable feedback, and I've been working on getting it just right
<mathiaz> [ACTION] SpamapS to send ruby gems proposel to ubuntu-devel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to send ruby gems proposel to ubuntu-devel
<mathiaz>  Daviey & kirkland to review http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/uec.html
<kirkland> mathiaz: done!  looks good to me, sommer
<SpamapS> BTW, my messages to ubuntu-devel seem to take an average of 7 - 10 days to arrive in my inbox
<kirkland> SpamapS: you need to get ubuntu membership ;-)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: it may be held for moderation
<SpamapS> Would be nice if somebody can moderate them through quicker than that.
<hggdh> moderation, I guess
<mathiaz>  entire team to fix your papercuts by end-of-the-week
<kirkland> mathiaz: did mine ;-)
<Daviey> membership doesn't give you whitelisting on that list, it's upload rights that does it.
<SpamapS> Still waiting for my collectd MIR guidance email to come through, though cjwatson did tell me he moderated it yesterday.
<mathiaz> MootBot: did mine as well
<ttx> I'll come back to that later
<jiboumans> ttx: did anyone miss their papercut?
<mathiaz> I think we'll come back to the papercut later
<ttx> some did, yes.
<mathiaz> SpamapS and ScottK to reivew Kolab php5 patches
<zul> GDAY
<ttx> but it will bite them back with a vengeance
<ttx> as it'll be back in beta :P
<mathiaz> SpamapS: I've seen some progress on this topic - Kolab php5 patches
<SpamapS> mathiaz: I believe the uw-imap patches have been uploaded..
<SpamapS> mathiaz: the php5-imap patches will come w/ 5.3.3
<SpamapS> zul: right?
 * mathiaz o^5 SpamapS 
<zul> no...after alpha
 * mathiaz o^2*5 zul 
<ttx> that gets dirty
<mathiaz> Anything else related to last week meeting?
<SpamapS> and upstream has committed to importing the patches
<SpamapS> upstream, meaning php. :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> We were quite overcomitted for Alpha3, so unfortunately another round of postpones had to be done. Please see http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-3.html for the latest chart.
<jiboumans> several items will be done first thing during the beta, before feature freeze, but for the following specs, we dropped most of the work:
<jiboumans> cloud-libs, daily-vcs and uec-monitoring as they won't be able to be done before FF
<jiboumans> they remain targets of opportunity of course, but we dont expect them to be completed
<ttx> cloud-libs is completed
<ttx> I did it last week
<jiboumans> eh, cloud-config
<ttx> ... ?
 * jiboumans is probably confused today
 * jiboumans goes and looks
<jiboumans> cloud-utils, thank you very much
<ttx> ack
<jiboumans> let's all pretend i said that very eloquently in one go :)
 * ttx looks the other way
<jiboumans> we've also added blueprints to track ongoing work like ISO testing and triaging, just to provide more insight, so those will be in the tracker as well starting the beta cycle
<zul> umm..blueprint for triaging?
<hggdh> and testing?
<jiboumans> most blueprints should be scoped for the beta workloads now, so please have a look and make sure there are no anomalies
<cjwatson> SpamapS: I think there was some network problem - should be through now
<jiboumans> zul, hggdh: as per the outcome of our prague sprint, yes
<ttx> one work items for each daily triage
<ttx> we'll see if it helps
<jiboumans> i think that's all regarding alpha3 scope & beta plans
<jiboumans> ttx, floor's all yours
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha3 subcycle status (ttx)
<ttx> well, I think that one got covered quite well by Jos
<ttx> Alpha3-milestoned bugs
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Alpha3-milestoned bugs (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha3-milestoned bugs (ttx)
<ttx> the remaining bugs were retargeted to beta, since I managed to run an instance on topology1 with euca2.0 out of the box
<ttx> but other topologies and loadtesrting are still very broken
<SpamapS> cjwatson: thanks it just arrived. :-D
<ttx> Alpha3 ISO testing:
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Alpha3 ISO testing (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha3 ISO testing (ttx)
<ttx> the current candidate was smoketested enough to have good confidenbce it behaves. We'll have a eucalyptus commit later today, and a respin early tomorrow
<ttx> so you should concentrate your ISO testing efforts on tomorrow's
<ttx> on the cloud images side...
<ttx> smoser: you smoketested them and caught a bug that warrants a respin there as well
<ttx> ?
<smoser> yes.
<smoser> i've caught some other bugs in the ec2 images also.
<ttx> do you think you can respin and launch a test before your eod today ?
<smoser> none that seem likely to be fixed by tomorrow, but dont stop alpha.
<smoser> i'm starting re-spin.
<ttx> ok -- then just remember your area of ISo testing, it's marked down on the corresponding work item
<ttx> I'll help on the UEC side probably
<Daviey> \o/
<ttx> since ccheney is away
<hggdh> yes!
<hggdh> more blood on the arena
<Daviey> ttx: That is *greatly* appreciated
<hggdh> although there will not be much to test
<ttx> I can take on a triceratops with my bare hands and the power of my look
<jiboumans> ttx++ # organizer of things
<jiboumans> ttx: you may have heard science proved triceratops didn't actually exist
<ttx> when I look at bugs, they fly away :)
 * Daviey has witnessed this
<ttx> jiboumans: dammit
 * hggdh wishes ttx would look at UEC
<mathiaz> I guess that we can move given the last comments...
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<SpamapS> o/ # ?
<ttx> # #
<hggdh> nothing new here, except that Eucalyptus only works in all-in-one
<mathiaz> SpamapS: it's when I cut and paste from firefox
<SpamapS> Oh, I thought the new topic was something about hashing. ;)
<SpamapS> I asked before, but just to confirm, we should expect ISO's in the next couple of days right?
<mathiaz> hggdh: how is the QA team doing?
<hggdh> good. Almost up-to-date on all tasks, no real news
<mathiaz> ok - any questions to the QA team?
<Daviey> SpamapS: When you wake up tomorrow, there should hopefully be a fresh ISO to test :)
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> so we have switch to a 2.6.35 pv-ops kernel
 * ttx wishes that the old bug list was still present on the agenda
 * ttx recovers
<jiboumans> jjohansen++ # awesome
<jjohansen> ah yeah, I was just looking for the load bug #
<SpamapS> jjohansen: any news on the high load for idle instances on ec2?
<SpamapS> hah me too
<ttx> jjohansen: bug 574910 is getting out of control
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 574910 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "High load averages on Lucid while idling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574910
<ttx> jjohansen: great fix on bug 599450 !
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599450 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "[apparmor] getattr handled incorrectly in 2.6.35-6.7" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599450
<jjohansen> its definitely a really bug and I have started "bisecting" it
<mathiaz> SpamapS: is this bug 611272?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611272 in tomcat6 (Ubuntu) "clean tomcat6 install causes load to go up" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611272
<SpamapS> no 574910
<mathiaz> SpamapS: rather - is bug 611272 a duplicate of 574910?
<ttx> mathiaz: that one might be a dupe
<jjohansen> ttx: agreed that the bug is out of control
<SpamapS> mathiaz: yeah thats entirely possible, seems like it for sure.
<SpamapS> actually..
<SpamapS> I see a high load on my idle VMware instance too now that I think about it
<jjohansen> hopefully we will have a resolution to it soon, however its not a clean bisect situation
<smoser> SpamapS, don't get started. the bug is ec2 bug. if you have others, please open other bugs.
<smoser> its metabug with loads of irrelavent info already.
<jjohansen> hehe, right even if its the same bug :)
<SpamapS> smoser: agreed. I just wonder if the same issue is causing the problem.
<smoser> i do think 611272 is probably a duplicate, although i've never seen load go up to 1
<SpamapS>  11:26:53 up  1:46,  1 user,  load average: 1.09, 1.15, 1.15
<smoser> it is interesting to me that we've no evidence of this mystic load on "real hardware"
<SpamapS> Thing has been sitting there doing nothing.. top shows nothing.
<SpamapS> occasionally gmond or vmtoolsd pops up as doing something
<mathiaz> ok - I think we should move on
<mathiaz> and keep debugging later on
<mathiaz> jjohansen: anything else from the kernel team?
<ttx> I think jjohansen and smoser welcome all help, but not more confusion on that bug :)
<smoser> what color is your laptop, SpamapS ?
<jjohansen> I am looking at the pv-on-hvm drivers, and smoser found a few bugs with pv-ops
<SpamapS> smoser: Silver unless it gets really hot, then it turns red ;)
<smoser> that was probably off topic. but an example of the off topic content in the bug.
<SpamapS> lol
<mathiaz> anything else *for* the kernel team?
<SpamapS> kernel team: keep on rockin in the free world. :)
<jjohansen> I think I am done
<mathiaz> jjohansen: great - thanks !
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<mathiaz> hm - noone around
<mathiaz> so move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Community Team (kim0)
<jiboumans> no kim0 it seems
<jiboumans> the topic got added recently
<ttx> it's quite late in Egypt
<mathiaz> ok - I've pinged kim0 - he may stop by later
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> ah...
<mathiaz> kim0: o/
<jiboumans> speak of the devil
<ttx> kim0 never sleeps
<kim0> hehe
<kim0> so whats up
<mathiaz> kim0: anything to report from the community team to the server team?
<kim0> hmm .. well the updates are
<kim0> We're basically fighting with IS to release the maps app for the 10.04.1 release
<kim0> on time
<kim0> hopefully this week
<Daviey> Hi.. i've just had a power failure - meaning i'm connecting throw 3g - which is currently very slow...
<ttx> we'll.. speak... slowly
<SpamapS> kim0: you could always just pool together your EC2 allowance for the month and run it on EC2. ;)
<Daviey> through*
<kim0> SpamapS: I don't really know how this allowance thing works
<Daviey> Can we discuss atop until my power returns please? :)
<kim0> but jono didn't seem too excited
<kim0> so I'm not doing that
<kim0> If anyone is interested in the cloud portal specs
<kim0> I've updated the docs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CloudPortalSpecs
<mathiaz> kim0: cool - thanks
<kim0> check it out and let us know opinions
<kim0> that's basically all from my side
<mathiaz> anything to ask to the community team?
<jiboumans> kim0: let us know if and when the app is up and we'll blog/mail/tweet about it
<kim0> jiboumans: sure thingie
<jiboumans> thanks
<kim0> if it's not up by this thursday
<kim0> I'll go the ec2 route
<kim0> coz that'd be the final week
<SpamapS> yes, we need to unleash a blog-pocalypse when its released
<kim0> Yes hehe
<mathiaz> ok - anything else to add?
<kim0> nope that's all
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (zul)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (zul)
<zul> im still catching up from beeing back on holiday
<mathiaz> zul: I'm not sure what we're supposed to do here
<mathiaz> as the nominations should be done by email now
<zul> neither am i...since its done by email now
<zul> if it were up to me i would remove it from the agenda
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/sru-tracker-bugs.html
<mathiaz> is working again
<SpamapS> I have one that is sort of in question..
<mathiaz> who's looking after that? and making sure things are moved along?
<SpamapS> bug #611695
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 611695 in mysql-5.1 (Ubuntu) "mysqlhotcopy produces error about log tables" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611695
<zul> mathiaz: i try to review it every friday
<ttx> "319" days assigned : should probably be unassigned
<zul> agreed
<ttx> there is also a "362" :)
<ttx> if we remove the cruft, it will be reviewable during the meeting
<zul> anything above a 300 should be removed
<zul> ill do it this friday
<mathiaz> or worked on ASAP :D
<ttx> i'd argue that stuff assigned for > 150 days should be removed as well
<SpamapS> removed meaning not SRU'd?
<mathiaz> I'd argue stuff assigned for > 30 days
<ttx> SpamapS: no
<mathiaz> at some point down the line
<Daviey> Maybe it's a really complex and requires a year of development! :)
<ttx> SpamapS: removced as in no longer assigned to someone that does not make it happen
<SpamapS> got it
<mathiaz> there is some backlog then
<mathiaz> there is some backlog *now*
<ttx> We should strive for no red in there
<mathiaz> but once you've cleared things up there shouldn't be any red
<ttx> and only have the stuff we intend to do short-term
<ttx> mathiaz: I hope so
<mathiaz> any question wrt to the SRU process?
<mathiaz> or SRU?
<SpamapS> the bug I mentioned earlier..
<ttx> maybe action people to clean up their SRU abandon items ?
<mathiaz> ttx: we should probably prod them
<mathiaz> ttx: as most of them are not in the meeting
<ttx> ok
<mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to clean up the SRU assigne list by prodding people on status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to clean up the SRU assigne list by prodding people on status
 * zul gets out the cattle prod
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server papercuts (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server papercuts (ttx)
<ttx> yay
<ttx> Final status for alpha3 :https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-alpha-3
<ttx> some fixes are considered committed, that is the work on them is done, but the fix didn't come back from debian yet
<ttx> i expect the assignees to followup on those
<ttx> Beta cycle is here : https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/maverick-beta
<ttx> There are the two that Dave hadn't had time to finalize, plus 10 others
<ttx> pick yours  :)
<ttx> cycle starts 2010-08-06
<ttx> ends 2010-08-25
<mathiaz> anything else to add on the papercut project?
<ttx> nothing from me
<mathiaz> let's move on then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> ...
<SpamapS> o/
<mathiaz> I ran into the following project last week: http://www.eurekastreams.org/
<ttx> kirkland: how is Montreal's summer ?
<kirkland> ttx: way cooler than Austin, temperature wise :-)
<ttx> mathiaz: I had trouble to see what it does more than a regular twitter-like
<mathiaz> seems like a great way to get activity/status report within the team
<kirkland> i'm hoping to see the aurorae borealis tonight, if we're far enough north....
<jiboumans> "The coldest winter I've ever spent was a summer in Montreal" -- Dustin Twain
<mathiaz> ttx: what I found interesting is the concept of plugin
<SpamapS> mathiaz: I took a look at it, very interesting tool.. I wonder if it would be useful for UDS sessions
<kirkland> http://news.discovery.com/space/incoming-the-sun-unleashes-cme-at-earth.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://news.discovery.com/space/incoming-the-sun-unleashes-cme-at-earth.html
<kirkland> jiboumans: something like that :-)
<mathiaz> ttx: so we could have LP plugins
<ttx> mathiaz: so twitter + dashboards ?
<mathiaz> ttx: whenever you upload something in LP in gets into your stream
<jiboumans> mathiaz: i checked out the demo. it seems it really shines with many users
<mathiaz> ttx: yes
<SpamapS> it seems to have some of the coolness of webnumbr too
<ttx> mathiaz: what I've been missing recently is some presence tool, would that address that ?
<zul> kirkland: doubt it you will see it in montreal
<kirkland> zul: darn :-(
<kirkland> zul: will you see it in Ottawa?
<ttx> being able to tell people are "at work". Crosscheking with calendars doesn't really help me
<stas_> !time
<ubottu> Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)
<mathiaz> ttx: right
<ttx> but I guess we could solve that with a specific status message
<zul> but hggdh loves notpdate
<mathiaz> ttx: IMO if I'm not I work I'm not IRC
<mathiaz> ttx: it's the easiest way to see whether I'm online
<mathiaz> however people have different opinion on this
<ttx> mathiaz: you're easy ;)
<ttx> predictability is also good. Since you travel, your work hours change
<jiboumans> i second that btw
<jiboumans> but whatever we use, it has to low impact
<mathiaz> ttx: so you'd like to have both real-time presence and expected presence
<SpamapS> ttx: I'd love to have a presence tool as well
<SpamapS> I try ot remember to set /away on irc but I often forget
<ttx> for expected presence the calendar is ok
<Daviey>  /j #server  ; sleep 10h ; /part #server
<ttx> mathiaz: for example, I don't think you disconnect from IRC when you go out to eat
<mathiaz> ttx: that's true
<Daviey>  XMPP!
 * SpamapS suggests GPS ankle bracelets for all Ubuntu members
<jiboumans> .... someone will say google wave soon
<mathiaz> ttx: however I may take more than 1 hour to answer a ping on IRC
<Daviey>  Jabber could be ideal for this.
<ttx> SpamapS: I like that. With electrical shocks when your velocity goes down
<stas_> hi guys, loco council is doing reapproval meeting today?
<SpamapS> just setup a collage of webcams from all our home offices
<Daviey> stas_: perhaps.. this this currently the server meeting
<nuvolari> o/ tumbleweed :D
<ttx> I think webcam/mumble is not appropriate to do presence
<stas_> Daviey: how long this is gonna take?
 * mathiaz agrees
<mathiaz> stas_: a couple more minutes
<zul> considering if you are sitting in your briefs
<stas_> ah, ok, srry, carry on :)
<mathiaz> stas_: until the begining of next hour as outlined on the fridge calendar
 * SpamapS watches the train slowly derail
<ttx> anyway, I'm not opposed to trying out eurekastreams
<mathiaz> it was just food for though
<ttx> it just might be slightly overkill :)
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed - we should try it out to get a feeling about it ;)
<SpamapS> user: ping! seems to work for active communication
<mathiaz> anything else to add before we wrap up?
<ttx> nope
<mathiaz> SpamapS: http://err.no/personal/blog/tech/2006-10-10-12-05_contentless_pings.html
<mathiaz> let's wrap up then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time?
<mathiaz> Tuesday 2010-08-10 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<mathiaz> ^^ ?
<kirkland> +1
<mathiaz> all right - so next week, same place, same time
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:58.
<jiboumans> thanks all
<czajkowski> 2 mins to loco council meeting folks
<czajkowski> itnet7: huats
<huats> there I am czajkowski
<czajkowski> just waiting on the others to arrive
<huats> sure czajkowski
<stas_> great, hi all
<czajkowski> paultag: howdy
<paultag> BRB
<paultag> I need to head home
<paultag> start without me :)
<czajkowski> lets wait a few as no sign of leogg or popey just yet
<huats> czajkowski, sure
<drubin> czajkowski: sure no prpbople
<czajkowski> hmm
 * nuvolari gets out his banner
<amachu> midnight at india..
<czajkowski> right popey is on his way
<popey> Greetings!
<czajkowski> who is from indian loco here
<popey> Sorry for being late, had a small child with a nose bleed :S
<huats> hello popey
<nagaraja> Its almost 00.36 am in India
<huats> right on time
<czajkowski> ok could you please add your wiki applicationto the agenda so
<czajkowski> it's missing
<thangam_arun> I am also from India
<czajkowski> and we can get started as I know it's late
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:07. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<viky> i am from india
<czajkowski> Aloha LoCO Council meeting is underway!
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<huats> hello viky
<czajkowski> we have a short agenda tonight just two teams and a topic for us to discss, but I know it's late for some people so lets start with applications
<viky> hello
<czajkowski> [topic] South Africa
<MootBot> New Topic:  South Africa
<drubin> czajkowski: Hi
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> drubin: hi there
<crabbytag> OK. im on my droid but here
<nuvolari> whoop! we're up :D go drubin!
<czajkowski> right so there is 4 council members so we're good to go
<maiatoday> go drubin
<drubin> czajkowski: questions?
<czajkowski> drubin: so care to tell us about your loco please
<drubin> So an introduction is something that explains who what we are... Kinda hard really because we are every one....
<stefanlsd> heys, if south africa can host a world cup, we can host a loco :)
<drubin> So we as a loco are from the Southern Part of Africa.
<drubin> stefanlsd: ^5
<highvoltage> yes we can!
<czajkowski> grin
<drubin> czajkowski: We are the place were ubuntu kinda started with Mark ;-p
<czajkowski> ok can you tell us how you share out roles and oraganise events
<highvoltage> there's some people in the loco that also really stepped up the last year or so and have been doing great work
<drubin> czajkowski: we don't really have a formal proccess ;/
<nuvolari> ^5
<czajkowski> drubin: so how does stuff get done?
 * tumbleweed waves as a new ZA MOTU
<highvoltage> like maiatoday who hosted and awesome release party at her house (which is just one of many cool things she did)
<drubin> czajkowski: There was a gap this year right after we lost our website but after speaking to superfly (where is he)
<drubin> he basically redesigned our site and well http://ubuntu-za.org/ came out ;-p
<drubin> czajkowski: That is something I would actually like to change the whole roles thing but every one seems *very* busy at the current momment
<drubin> as with every one. ;-p
<czajkowski> *nods*
<czajkowski> of course
<drubin> So the whole formal role thing is a bit much, but people all help out where they can when they can.
<crabbytag> drubin: can you talk a bit ab out the case stickers?
<drubin> makes special note of sueprfly, maiatoday, and tumbleweed
<drubin> crabbytag: which ones?
<Kilos> hiya. im here
<drubin> crabbytag: both maiatoday and me make case badges ;-p
<nuvolari> ya, some employers don't fully support passion for ubuntu :( But I try to wedge in time where I can :)
<highvoltage> drubin: I assume the ones on the re-application wiki page :)
<crabbytag> thats the one :)
 * inetpro comes to join the ubuntu-za croud - sorry for being late
<drubin> Ok will start with mine http://blog.smartcube.co.za/2009/05/26/ubuntu-pc-badges-for-za/
 * Morganvd here to help where i can with ubuntu-za
<drubin> basically I just got my laptop and I didn't like the fact it said "powered by widnows Vista" so phoned around got a quote and printed 4000
<drubin> they wouldn't print any thing less and I thought well I can give them out so I did.
 * maiatoday likes shiney case badges with ubuntu logos
<Morganvd> i need a few of those
<drubin> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/unusual/small-25mm-badge-pins << maiatoday's badges happened I think because she showed me the design at one of the ubuntu hours and I was like OMG that is awesome I want like 20
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/unusual/small-25mm-badge-pins << maiatoday's badges happened I think because she showed me the design at one of the ubuntu hours and I was like OMG that is awesome I want like 20
<drubin> so she got them printed as well
<highvoltage> maiatoday also had human badges!
 * inetpro received a set of stickers from drubin all the way in Pretoria
<drubin> We both kinda gave them out to people and said they can donate what they can/want to
<drubin> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IMDTCDbQeWY/S9yQEsSTS1I/AAAAAAAAAG4/du4so-FpfVw/s320/cake.resized.JPG
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IMDTCDbQeWY/S9yQEsSTS1I/AAAAAAAAAG4/du4so-FpfVw/s320/cake.resized.JPG
<drubin> we also had CAKE!!! come cake ftw
<czajkowski> how many people turn up to your events? say a relase party?
 * nuvolari also got badges from drubin
 * helger also got badges
<drubin> czajkowski: mmm We kinda lost ourwiki posts
<drubin> highvoltage: ^
<drubin> czajkowski: but at the last global jam we hadd +-50 people come though
<drubin> and at the release part in CPT/Stellenbosch there were +- 35
<maiatoday> czajkowski: there are sometimes simultaneous events in different places in the country
<drubin> people made the 55min drive effort to come
<crabbytag> nice!
<drubin> CPT = Cape town (city) JHB = another city
<czajkowski> ok
<drubin> exact numbers are odd.
<nuvolari> In Bloem we had around 8 people the last time, and I think Brandfort also had that, or a greater number
<stefanlsd> south africa is pretty big... takes like 15 hours to drive across it.
<drubin> but at the Karmic release party we had +- 5 or 6 release aprties in cpts
<drubin> Lucid we had like 3 it was less of a hipe.
<Morganvd> There was 6 in Johannesburg for Karmix
<Morganvd> Karmic*
<drubin> I guess people were really busy.
<inetpro> we've had release parties in Gauteng with every release that I can remember of
<drubin> btw the same as the report thing, I might be the contact but well every thing is a team effort
<nuvolari> yay for superfly :D
<nuvolari> :P
<superfly> sorry I'm late
<drubin> btw hamslaa1 is the System admin for one of the Universities in A
 * txwikinger cheers on superfly
<drubin> and he has pretty much helped out getting ubuntu regonised and every thing in the uni. see http://www.ubuntu.sun.ac.za/wiki/index.php/Special:Statistics
<superfly> ohi txwikinger
<drubin> basically the reason that is better to have a different wiki is this one is "Free access to studnets" so they don't use their Internet hours to access ubuntu resources (because it is local)
<czajkowski> ok
<drubin> wow huge stats on the SUN wiki.
<drubin> czajkowski: any other questions?
<czajkowski> ok lets vote
<helger> bandwidth is still quite expensive in SA
<huats> drubin, I think you made your point :)
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Ubuntu Sa team re approval . only council members vote.
<hamslaa1> u bet it is and very scarce
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Ubuntu Sa team re approval . only council members vote..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<crabbytag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from crabbytag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drubin> Only concil vote btw
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nagaraja> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nagaraja. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<thangam_arun> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from thangam_arun. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<huats> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<highvoltage> well done team ZA
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<viky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from viky. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<crabbytag> whoh
<inetpro> wow
<nuvolari> :>
<popey> whoops
<tumbleweed> thanks guys :)
<drubin> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<stefanlsd> yay!!! congrats guys :)
<inetpro> drubin: is our man \o/
<drubin> thanks -council.
<Morganvd> Thank you all
<huats> congrats za
<crabbytag> grats drubin :)
<nuvolari> thank you! \o/ \o/
<popey> Keep doing great work guys and gals!
<nelydajo> =====< paarp
<drubin> inetpro: No ubuntu-za is our team
<czajkowski> #endvote
<hamslaa1> baie dankie !!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7
 * maiatoday has a big grin
<nuvolari> congrats drubin :D
<thangam_arun> Drubin, Congrats
<nuvolari> and everyone involed :D
<czajkowski> grrr please in future let council only vote
<hamslaa1> well done dave !
<nelydajo> Well done guys!
<Kilos> congrats drubin
<viky> Congrats drubin
<Kilos> go za
 * drubin accepts congrats for the whole team
<robbit> Great stuff guys. You did an awesome job.
<huats> I don't know if you notice but just when sabdfl connects, the ubuntu-za gets reapproved :)
<Morganvd> Congrats Drubin you earned it
<sabdfl> YOU CALLED
<superfly> yay! :-D
<sabdfl> ;-)
<popey> haha
<nagaraja> Congratz drubin, tumbleweed and all ur team guys
<popey> convenient
<drubin> sabdfl: we did we just got approved Ubuntu-za
<tumbleweed> re-approved
<sabdfl> rocking news :)
<drubin> ye that one.
<czajkowski> great stuff folks
<czajkowski> ok moving on
<Morganvd> cya all in ubuntu-za
<sabdfl> is there a center of gravity to the team, or distributed across za?
<czajkowski> [topic] Indian LoCo Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Indian LoCo Re approval
<sabdfl> no need to answer, keep going with the mtng
<drubin> sabdfl: all around, but we seem to be pretty active in Stellenbosch of all places
<inetpro> now we just need to get sabdfl to our SFD in Pretoria :-)
<nagaraja> yes
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team
<czajkowski> nagaraja: ok anyone else here with you ?
<nagaraja> yes , amachu, viky , arulalan , thangami arun
<czajkowski> ok welcome folks nice to have you here, I know it's late
<nagaraja> its midnight 1 at India
<czajkowski> nagaraja: so can you tell us a bit about your team, how you are doing ?
<amachu> czajkowski: the wiki's timeline is to get updated but we can give you references for blanks
<amachu> m3swamy: hey!
<czajkowski> amachu: so why wasn't that done before the meeting ?
<nagaraja> ya ,, we are spreading the features of ubuntu across tamil nodu by conducting various public functions , seminars in colleges and distributing free cd's across tamil nadu
<m3swamy> hello amachu :
<popey> where is the approval application?
<czajkowski> popey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team
<czajkowski> just not named as an application
<nagaraja> its on our wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tamil_Team
<amachu> czajkowski: all are in Tamil.. to do in English.. lazied
 * popey pokes the wiki with a stick
<czajkowski> nagaraja: ok, well the layout we suggested and naming hasn;'t been followed
<czajkowski> amachu: nagaraja  I don't think we can process this application today
<czajkowski> it's lacking any of the information
<czajkowski> we'd suggest you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoExampleApplication
<czajkowski> and come back on August 17th
<amachu> czajkowski: yep
<amachu> thats fine with us
<nagaraja> yes ofcourse
<czajkowski> it's just we can't process that page as there isn't much information there
<czajkowski> if you need help the council can help we idle in #ubuntu-locoteams
<amachu> czajkowski: thats fine
<popey> we can certainly help you prepare the wiki page
<huats> it is in order to give us a clear view of your work
<nagaraja> we have designed the layout and info. to be in tamil
<popey> but we would need that done before the next loco council meeting
<czajkowski> [agreed] Indian LoCo to come back on August 17th with up to date wiki application
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Indian LoCo to come back on August 17th with up to date wiki application
<nagaraja> sure ,,
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> so moving on
<nagaraja> agreed
<czajkowski> [topic] Serbia LoCo re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Serbia LoCo re Approval
<thangam_arun> czajkowski: ok
<uros1> Greetings from Serbia, we send application as well and we are ready to discuss it if it is possible
<amachu> czajkowski: we understand.. its that we noticed the meeting to be held couple of days back & didn't want to miss out
<bojce> Greetings from Serbia
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SerbianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<uros1> members present are bojce coordinator, Githzerai, Prvul, olujicz, archmalac and me.
<czajkowski> ok thanks folks for coming
<prvul> o/
<nagaraja> nice
<czajkowski> over 4000 members on your forum, that's a lot
<popey> woah, over 4000 on the forum, nice work
<uros1> tnx
<Githzerai> tnx, we hope to inprove ;)
<czajkowski> so is a lot of your team work done via the forums?
<uros1> yes, biggest activity  is on form helping new users to get fammiliar
<uros1> with Ubuntu
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-srbija/4595310793/in/photostream/ whats going on there, looks like a lot of attentive people learning about lucid :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-srbija/4595310793/in/photostream/ whats going on there, looks like a lot of attentive people learning about lucid :)
<uros1> its release party on Lucid with 100+ people
<uros1> in Belgrade downtown
<czajkowski> wow impressive
<czajkowski> so how do you go about organising your events?
<czajkowski> does everyone just help ?
<popey> excellent stuff
<uros1> LoCo core team is active in organisation, but other users have great role in events as well
<czajkowski> oh good I like to hear that
<Githzerai> we usually have minor problems during organisation, but things somehoe just work out
<huats> do you have pictures of the material you are doing ? (like tshirt and stuffs you mention) ? I am a big fan of sharing this kind of stuffs (well the sources) so that teams that have less artists can also do their own
<czajkowski> Githzerai: such as?
<Githzerai> Well biggset problem is finding appropriate place to hold such event
<uros1> T-shirts
<uros1> maybe
<czajkowski> Githzerai: yes it can be hard.
<popey> Githzerai: same issue every loco has I'm afraid :)
<czajkowski> Githzerai: is it size/location or cost issues you face?
<popey> Githzerai: if you find a magic venue, let other locos know! :D
<Githzerai> :)
<uros1> :)
<Githzerai> Most of the time we manage to find some location for free, but timing schedule is a problem.
<czajkowski> so is there any issues you faced in the last 2 years since you were first approved?
<uros1> yes, server problem
<olujicz> huats, we mainly use materials from http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<Githzerai> Server troubles, so we are currently in a process of migrating to a new host
<czajkowski> Githzerai: ok
<huats> olujicz, ok so it is already shared ! great
<czajkowski> so any other comments you'd like to mention to the council
<paultag> I'm back. Sorry folks. I'm on WiFi now
<uros1> no thats all i think, maybe to take a look at new site, forum...
<bojce> yes, we change branding for new server
<uros1> http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/
<czajkowski> uros1: we notice a lack of team reports
<uros1> http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/testforum/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/testforum/
<popey> new site looks beautiful
<huats> uros1, I think you are doing a good job. I'd like to see reports in your applications
<uros1> http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/wiki/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuloco.gridsrv.net/wiki/
<paultag> +1 on that. New site rocks
<huats> have you think of doing some ?
<uros1> thanks
<czajkowski> uros1: do you know about team reports?
<prvul> we know
<paultag> prvul: are you considering making them a regular thing?
<Githzerai> That is one of the things we would like to improve.
<uros1> yes we know and we do that
<uros1> in close future
<prvul> yes! but until now we havent used ubuntu oficial wiki
<czajkowski> Githzerai: I hope to read serbia report so in Next months news letter
<prvul> because we have our own
<prvul> we alredy set up basic pages for reports
<prvul> just didnt fill them
<prvul> :)
<popey> we could look at how to make it easier for people to contribute reports on external wikis
<uros1> yes thats great idea
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Serbia LoCo Re Approval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Serbia LoCo Re Approval. ONLY COUNCIL MEMBERS VOTE PLEASE.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<huats> +1 continue the good work
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> Keep up the good work uros1
<paultag> And the rest of the team :)
<uros1> tnx man
<itnet7> +1 great work!!
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> looking forward to reports next month
<paultag> For sure. REPORTS!
<paultag> Please :)
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> great well done folks !
<popey> nice work!
<bojce> thx
<Githzerai> Thank you !
<uros1> :)
<prvul> \o/ to!
<popey> look forward to photos from the 10.10.10 release party!
<huats> congrats !
<popey> Dont Panie!
<popey> *panic
<olujicz> Thank you
<uros1> wow, thanks!
<itnet7> congrats!
<czajkowski> ok so moving onto council items
<stas> hey, wait a minute
<stas> hi all
<Githzerai> it's been a priviledge being a part of Ubuntu LoCo last 5 years, and we hope to improve in the future.
<czajkowski> [topic] Updating Application with new headings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Updating Application with new headings
<stas> czajkowski: i asked last week about ubuntu-ro reapproval
<paultag> stas: Romania?
<czajkowski> stas: RO ?
<stas> yes
<stas> me and Cracknel and riddickbm
<paultag> czajkowski: sent an email, right?
<czajkowski> romanian
<stas> wiki
<czajkowski> I sent an email earlier on today to the team
<czajkowski> to adi
<stas> hmm, didn't get it
<stas> adi is away
<czajkowski> it was sent
<czajkowski> you were re approved
<stas> i called him just some hours before
<stas> oh, thanks guys
<paultag> stas: you were +1'd unanimously
<stas> thanks, didn't know
<paultag> stas: sure :)_
<czajkowski> ok so getting back to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<itnet7> congratulations stas, sorry for the delay
<stas> keep up the great work :)
<paultag> stas: back at you!
<czajkowski> this is the wiki page teams are referred to, to create their applications
<czajkowski> I think it'd be a good idea to add some more headings so that if teams need to do things via email it would have more content
<czajkowski> but adding team reports would also be a heading I'd like to see
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<huats> czajkowski, I agree I think the team reports would help a lot
<czajkowski> huats: any other headings you think might be a good idea to include?
<paultag> Yeah, I agree
<paultag> czajkowski: this is just the display page, yeah?
<czajkowski> perhaps this is something that should be worked on and released for next cycle.....
<paultag> czajkowski: not the actual report page that is <<Include()>>'d
<paultag> right?
<czajkowski> this would be for the TEAM/ApprovalApplication TEAM/REApprovalApplication
<paultag> Oh dur, right.
<czajkowski> paultag: ^^
<czajkowski> but one heading would be Team reports
<paultag> Yup, +1 on that here. I think that will work very well
<popey> something really simple, we need to keep the overhead for the teams low
<popey> especially those non-native-english
<paultag> +1 popey
<popey> barrier to re-approval should be low for those who have plenty of stuff to show us
<czajkowski> indeed
<popey> it should be as easy for them to show it to us as it is for them to document it in the first place
<czajkowski> atm it's KEy DEtails, Roadmap, and Experience
<huats> I'd like to see the evolution since the last vote of the council
<popey> maybe we can take copies of successful team re-approvals as examples?
<czajkowski> popey: nice idea
<czajkowski> colombia france were excellent ones
<popey> yeah
<czajkowski> but they are very detailed, we could do wiht one also for a smaller loco ?
<popey> maybe make pdfs out of them
<popey> freeze them in stone
<czajkowski> great idea
<czajkowski> popey: can I action that to you
<popey> sure
<czajkowski> [acton] popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<czajkowski> [action] popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to create pdfs of successful team re approvals as examples to help teams
<huats> I'd like to see in the reapproval application, the linkto the pdf of the approval application
<popey> yup
<huats> it is always nice to compare the planned roadmap to the real stuffs that happened
<czajkowski> ok so perhaps we need to work on this a bit behind the scenes and then  come back with some ideas/drafts of wiki pages and then come up with the new page ?
<huats> czajkowski, I agree
<czajkowski> ok so
<czajkowski> huats: can I action you this item to kick off a mail and a sample wiki page of some new headings for council to work on
<huats> czajkowski, go ahead
<huats> :)
<czajkowski> [action] huats to set up a sample new wiki page for applications and to kick off email for loco council to work on
<MootBot> ACTION received:  huats to set up a sample new wiki page for applications and to kick off email for loco council to work on
<ActionParsnip> yo yo yo
<ActionParsnip> sorry a bit late, work was a pig
<czajkowski> ok are there any other areas we need to cover, EMEA is on next
<paultag> I think that's it :)
<huats> thanks everyone for the meeting
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:03.
<czajkowski> thanks folks
<ActionParsnip> am I late?
<popey> ActionParsnip: no
<paultag> ActionParsnip: LoCo Council meeting just ended :)
<popey> perfectly on time
<ActionParsnip> popey: sweet
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<highvoltage> EMEA RMB shouldn't be too long today :)
 * drubin is here but on shacky interwebs
<popey> highvoltage: who are we missing
<czajkowski> o/
 * ogra_cmpc snorkels
<czajkowski> we have apologies from Dennis
<highvoltage> and stgraber is on the phone with a client, not sure how long that will last still :/
<czajkowski> well we have 5/7
<czajkowski> so that's ok
<highvoltage> great
<huats> goog meeting EMEA board )
<czajkowski> someone gonna chair..
<highvoltage> czajkowski: will you drive the bot?
<czajkowski> highvoltage: if you do the report :)
<popey> Teamwork!
<czajkowski> that's a yes then
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:08. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<highvoltage> czajkowski: heh, sneaky :) (yes)
<czajkowski> Aloha to EMEA RMB :)
<czajkowski> [topic] Roy Jamison
 * ActionParsnip sips tea
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roy Jamison
<czajkowski> not present it would seem
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> sad
<czajkowski> ok moving on
<czajkowski> [topic] Majd Almontaser
<MootBot> New Topic:  Majd Almontaser
<highvoltage> pity
<czajkowski> ttmtt??
<czajkowski> also not hear,
<czajkowski> do folks know they put their name down they have to turn up right?
<czajkowski> [topic] Omar Mohsen
<MootBot> New Topic:  Omar Mohsen
<Mez> czajkowski: I've seen (a long time ago) people be passed without being there :P
<ActionParsnip> ttmtt = http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1095750
<czajkowski> egyparadox ?
<czajkowski> ok this is slightly annoying
<czajkowski> [topic] Andrew Woodhead
<MootBot> New Topic:  Andrew Woodhead
<ActionParsnip> least i'm here or it'd be a washout
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: hey there!
<ActionParsnip> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActionParsnip
<highvoltage> ActionParsnip: please tell us a bit about yourself!
<popey> "highest Karma in the questions section being the first to beach the 100000 mark with 166739 "
<popey> thats a lot of karma
<ActionParsnip> what you wanna know?
<ActionParsnip> yep, lotsa karma
<popey> however...
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanPope?action=diff&rev2=11&rev1=10
<popey> :)
<Mez> popey: he musta done or be scheduled to do lots of bad things to balance it out :P
<ActionParsnip> yeah, thats pretty rad popey
<popey> so i completely understand the commitment to answering questions!
<ActionParsnip> so what you wanna know, i need some structure to pad out, you want my favourite colour an stuff?
<highvoltage> ActionParsnip: what is your favourite colour?
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: are you involved in your loco ?
<ActionParsnip> The colour a clear sky goes when its a clear sky, not quite black but not blue
<drubin> ActionParsnip: You said you admin mostly windows servers Do you deal with any linux servers?
<highvoltage> ActionParsnip: following czajkowski's question, do you have any interest in expanding your ubuntu activities beyond support?
<ActionParsnip> czajkowski: not been to one yet, i kinda just work and sleep when I work, then go out and check stuff when I'm off. i use my phone to post on launchpad and chat on irc
<ActionParsnip> highvoltage: sure, if I can help then sure
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: which is your loco team ?
<popey> ActionParsnip: whereabouts in the country are you?
<ActionParsnip> its fun to help
<ActionParsnip> popey: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
<ActionParsnip> czajkowski: not sure
<popey> ah okay, I know it :)
<ActionParsnip> capital of the world :)
<popey> heh
<popey> what drives you to contribute?
<highvoltage> I have no further questions
 * ogra_cmpc is a clear +1, beating seb128 in karma alone is worth a +10
<highvoltage> oh I thought we have to wait for the bot before doing that
<ActionParsnip> popey: half loving the OS but also because I dont get issues
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, that was just a comment ;)
<highvoltage> ok :)
<ActionParsnip> I buy stupidly supported hardware very on purpose so have no issues
 * drubin doesn't need any other info.
<ActionParsnip> so i help others to compensate and it's taught me as much as I would have had if i'd had issues
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: well you're in the UK, so the UK loco.
<drubin> ActionParsnip: Would be nice to be more involved in your loco ;-p but that doesn't affect my vote personally
<ActionParsnip> czajkowski: makes sense
<drubin> Loco's aren't for every one ;-p
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: do you know about locos?
<ActionParsnip> drubin: it's always in stupid London and London is a horrible place, plus I dont drive
<ActionParsnip> czajkowski: a tiny bit
<popey> ActionParsnip: Leeds Global Jam it is then!
<drubin> ActionParsnip: what about having a mini loco type even in Leeds?
<highvoltage> how about voting!
<drubin> ActionParsnip: Our loco is kinda split up by distance so we have our own little mini events it is pretty cool
<popey> how about that!
<drubin> waiting for the bot drivers?
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Andrew Woodhead / ActionParsnip membership.. Only board members vote please
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Andrew Woodhead / ActionParsnip membership.. Only board members vote please.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<drubin> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ great support effort that is clearly sustained ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<popey> +1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from ogra_cmpc. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<ActionParsnip> wow this is crazy :D
<czajkowski> #endvote
<popey> Welcome!
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> ActionParsnip: well done
<drubin> ActionParsnip: Well done
<ogra_cmpc> \o/
<czajkowski> [action] highvoltage to write up August Team report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  highvoltage to write up August Team report
<ogra_cmpc> great
<popey> tbh I'm surprised you weren't already a member!
<highvoltage> czajkowski: almost done! this month happens to be particularly easy :)
<ActionParsnip> thanks guys, you're the best
<popey> added to ~ubuntumembers
<drubin> hey I don't mind doing this months?
<ActionParsnip> popey: thought I become more active
<czajkowski> [action] highvoltage chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  highvoltage chair next meeting
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:21.
<ogra_cmpc> wow
<highvoltage> wow in record time
<czajkowski> still disapointing folks adding nicks but not showing up :(
<drubin> record time
<popey> it happens
<drubin> ActionParsnip: Thanks for pitching up
<drubin> highvoltage: link for the report?
<popey> keep up the great work ActionParsnip
<ActionParsnip> czajkowski: yeah kinda sad but c'est la vie
<ActionParsnip> popey: always
<ActionParsnip> drubin: pleasure as always
<ActionParsnip> so whats the form now??
<popey> ActionParsnip: also, get thee to #ubuntu-irc and get your cloak
<popey> and follow the Membership page to get your LWN subscription
<ActionParsnip> popey: i'll bring my swiftest steed
<popey> (which is one of the best things about being an Ubuntu member IMO)
<drubin> ActionParsnip: and @ubuntu email :)
<popey> email will take a day or two
<popey> its semi-automatic
<ActionParsnip> no worries
<ActionParsnip> popey: I'm in #ubuntu-irc
<ActionParsnip> cloak is kinda meaningless to me, don't understand the hubub
<ActionParsnip> but if it's coming, i'm game
<Mez> ActionParsnip: -> #ubuntu-ops :
<Mez> popey: lol - my LWN subscription - I put in a request through Debian - it got spam filtered... then I applied through Ubuntu, and got added under Debian just before I got added under Ubuntu :)
<Mez> @ ActionParsnip for the cloak, that is.
<ActionParsnip> Mez: I'm there dude
<popey> Mez: -irc is fine
<ActionParsnip> i'm in both
<Mez> popey: ah, I don't know - its all changed since my day ;)
<popey> yeah, let the professionals do the job :p
<ajmitch> Mez: you make it sound like you're old
<Mez> ajmitch: I've got the receding hairline :D
<highvoltage> drubin: e-mailed, will put it up just now
<highvoltage> popey: you usually edit the agenda to clear out the applications right?
<popey> uhm
<popey> sometimes, yes :)
<popey> will do now
<popey> thanks for the reminder
<popey> done
<popey> well, would be if the wiki didnt give me http 500 :S
 * czajkowski kicks the wiki 
 * popey thinks we should clear out some old crap from the wiki at the global jam
<popey> archive off some pages, pdf them, and delete them
<popey> not necessarily in that order of course
<czajkowski> popey: what area of the wiki? with regrads to loco council ?
<ActionParsnip> am I still needed?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> we can all sleep
<ActionParsnip> cool, i need it
<ActionParsnip> 12 hour shift sucks
<ActionParsnip> thanks again guys
<ActionParsnip> peace
<popey> czajkowski: the whole thing
<czajkowski> wont argue with you there
<czajkowski> but maybe that is something we the LC could work on over those days
<czajkowski> be nice to create some sort of a index to our pages
<czajkowski> we have a lot of content there now and some is translated and others aren't it'd be good to highligh areas that need some work ?
<popey> that would also be handy
<popey> also, cc meeting o'clock?
<czajkowski> I'm still awake may as well do the 3rd meeting , finally one I don't have to chair :)
 * pleia2 waves
 * Technoviking waves
 * charlie-tca observing
<popey> eek
 * popey straightens his tie
 * highvoltage observes too
 * czajkowski waits for things to start
<popey> okay https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<popey> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:06. The chair is popey.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sabdfl> hello
<popey> hi
<popey> we have two things on the agenda..
 * popey pings AlanBell 
<popey> you about AlanBell to talk about "Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com"
<AlanBell> hi
<popey> [TOPIC] Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com
<popey> woot, i can drive the bot after all
<popey> AlanBell: did you want to discuss that at this meeting?
<AlanBell> right, so there has been some discussion recently about posts on the planet in non-english languages
<AlanBell> and it was suggested that it might be a topic to discuss with the CC
<AlanBell> personally I am in favour of people writing in an assortment of languages, the planet is an aggregation of "what Members write"
<popey> what's your thinking?
<pleia2> there is currently no prohibition on non-english posts, the guidelines are "should attempt to use English where possible to reach the widest possible audience"
<pleia2> if you're not interested in reaching the "widest possible audience" I don't really see a problem with non-english posts
<AlanBell> true enough, but there was a rather negative reaction to one recent non-english post
<AlanBell> that is my view too
<sabdfl> i would rather we set up appropriate planets for other languages
<popey> would there be a problem once the proportion of EN to non-EN gets above a certain threshold and the planet becomes 'mostly non-EN' at which point EN speakers will find it problematic to read?
<sabdfl> fr.planet.ubuntu.com
<popey> i agree
<AlanBell> there are other language planets, and loco planets
<sabdfl> along with an offer of translation volunteers for *particularly* noteworthy blogs (or even just reposts of links to translate.google.*)
<popey> no reason not to aggregate those planets on a global planet
<sabdfl> popey: except, while it's romantic in concept, nobody would actually read it
<popey> true
<popey> unless there was technical magic that made them all $my_locale
<AlanBell> the language planets that exist are not just posts of Ubuntu Members
<popey> i.e. google chrome
<sabdfl> would you subscribe to a feed that  you could only understand 20% of? and if ubuntu continues to grow as wonderfully, english will be 20% of the total, max
<popey> if it was automagically translated, yes, probably
<sabdfl> can i haz babelfish?
<sabdfl> oh dear
<sabdfl> i think i screwed that up
<AlanBell> I would (but I doubt it would get that much)
<sabdfl> i can haz babelfish?
<sabdfl> to eat?
<AlanBell> nom
<popey> heh, yet another 10.10.10. idea :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: but it could.  and while you can click on a post and open it up and translate a post, having them all in one RSS feed like many do would lead to a lot of cranky people trying to read the planet
<popey> or cranky people _not_ reading the planet
<sabdfl> let's call it Project Babelfish :-)
<czajkowski> cranky folks are not what we want really :)
<AlanBell> the raison d'etre of the planet is to aggregate members, not to aggregate great English blogs about Ubuntu
<popey> I suspect most would rather subscribe to a planet they can read than one they cannot
<popey> as sabdfl suggested a romantic idea to let everyone post in their own language, but ultimately who would hear the tree fall?
<AlanBell> also makes for a damn good test of UTF-8 and RTL support in assorted feed readers :-)
<sabdfl> that's true :-)
<AlanBell> it really isn't going to end up with masses of posts in other languages, just looking at the demographics of the members
<AlanBell> if it gets to 80% english, 20% others I would be surprised, and I would also be quite capable of translating the ones with interesting looking pictures, and skiping the ones that I don't feel like putting the effort into reading
<pleia2> AlanBell: I tend to agree
<AlanBell> at the moment we have a rule, phrased as a guideline (like the pirate code arrr)
<AlanBell> which results in the occasional post in non-english having a load of nasty comments on it and people pointing at the rule/guideline as a justification for their negativity
<huats> I think something that should be considered is also the web indexing. I am not sure of how it would be handled in many languages. (well I am not sure if I can speak or not)
<popey> i do like the idea of separate planets, or feeds which allow people to select which langs they can see
<AlanBell> yup, some kind of technical tagging enhancement would be great
<popey> well
<Daviey> Hello!
<pleia2> separate feeds would be nice
<AlanBell> planet.ubuntu.com/fr+en  would be kind of awesome
<popey> introducing Daviey and his new magic planet :)
<pleia2> not so much separate planets :\
<AlanBell> moons perhaps?
<popey> on sticks?
<Daviey> Okay...  planet won't really scale for multi language planets IMO
<Daviey> as in planet, planet that we currently have
<Daviey> you will have to forgive me, i'm not exactly prepared for this topic :/
<popey> sorry, i poked Daviey a moment ago knowing he's worked on this
<popey> well, this being planets, not this being multi-lingual planets
<sabdfl> well, nasty comments should not go unchallenged, though gently
<Daviey> http://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack
<Daviey> ^^ that includes openid support, with team based authentication access
<sabdfl> sweet!
<AlanBell> sabdfl: the comments were addressed appropriately
<Daviey> http://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation
<Daviey> (note the button to Add Planet)
<sabdfl> note the button theme, generally
<Daviey> When a user adds there feed, it would be reasonably trival to ask what language they will be posting in
<inetpro> how about all.planet.ubuntu.com to give those few who would like to read everything a page with all the lingos
<Daviey> planet.ubuntu.com{/fr/,/de/,/etc/} seems like a good fit?
<popey> i think the technical implementation of how one subscribes can be figured out later, i guess the main question is not 'how should we' but 'should we'
<inetpro> I certainly would not want to waste my bandwidth downloading pages that I have can not possibly understand
<inetpro> s/I have can/I can/
 * Daviey finds it frustrating when his native language isn't posted on the planet...  I obviously don't object, but i would prefer to see it natively. :)
<pleia2> as long as the main planet.ubuntu.com remains an aggregation of all feeds, I'm happy with any solution, I wouldn't want to segregate out folks who aren't english-speaking members
<pleia2> but if someone really wants english only, planet.ubuntu.com/en/ would be nice
<popey> that sounds fair
 * AlanBell agrees with pleia2 
<popey> especially if it's well documented
<Daviey> pleia2: It could be possible to hide your non-native language via cookies.. which would fit both ideas
<popey> we could totally blog about this! ;)
<AlanBell> popey: but in English please
<popey> Daviey: hard to do with rss readers surely?
<drubin> Daviey: Noo that breaks rrss readers
<Daviey> popey: in that instance you use a language based url, ie /de
<popey> right
 * Daviey just throws these crazy ideas out there..
<popey> Daviey: would you be willing to work on a demo site that had these features?
<popey> indeed do you have the time to?
<Daviey> popey: Yes.. i think there is a team of people eager to get involved :)
<popey> :)
<pleia2> woohoo
<Daviey> they just need some extra encouragement
<popey> AlanBell: does that sound acceptable?
 * Daviey waves at mhall119 o/ cjohnston o/ and some others
<AlanBell> certainly does
<AlanBell> Daviey: one blog could easily have posts in two or more languages remember
<popey> [ACTION] daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet
<MootBot> ACTION received:  daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet
<popey> AlanBell: implementation details ;)
<Daviey> AlanBell: yeah.. i think version 1 would really need pre-declaring what language your primary posts will be in.
<popey> anyone else got any comments on this topic?
<pleia2> nope, thanks Daviey!
<AlanBell> ok, so keep the rule/guideline in place until the technical enhancement is built
<Daviey> AlanBell: If you want to brainstorm ideas, that would be equally appreciated!
 * Daviey declares AlanBell his "Architect"
<AlanBell> Daviey: yup, and we should pull in some people who actually post in other languages
<popey> great stuff chaps!
 * AlanBell adjusts fees accordingly
 * inetpro will watch this debate with a great deal of interest
<Daviey> OK.. thanks for having me.. Returning to lurk mode o/
<AlanBell> o/
<popey> thanks Daviey much appreciated
<inetpro> we have 11 official languages in South Africa
<popey> [TOPIC] Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com
<popey> dpic is not about and brought this up on the mailing list
<sabdfl> i don't think having a default language for the project is discriminatory
<sabdfl> i think we should certainly create facilities to encourage expression in any language
<sabdfl> i think the default url, planet.ubuntu.com shoudl stay English, as that's the language used for debate, development and major announcements
<inetpro> sabdfl: for now that is :-)
<sabdfl> sorry, i was catching up, and didn't want to let the multi-lingual meme get carried away
<charlie-tca> I agree with sabdfl. A default language does not discriminate.
<popey> thanks sabdfl
<popey> ok, moving on, FSF on planet ubuntu?
<popey> the suggestion was made that they tag entries with 'ubuntu'
<pleia2> I don't think it discriminates, I just think it would be unfortunate to miss out on the international flavor of the project (I use chrome's translate feature often)
<sabdfl> pleia2: let's have a separate aggregator, /+babel
<sabdfl> anyhoo, moving along with the chair
<sabdfl> any seconds for the tag suggestion?
<popey> +1 for the hhgttg reference
<pleia2> seems reasonable, pretty much in line with the corporate blog policy
<Technoviking> the seems fine to me
<popey> +1 to the tag
<sabdfl> i'm interested to see if they acknowledge that we've always been on the pragmatic side of the copyleft debate
<sabdfl> (+1 from me too)
<sabdfl> i think that's quorum
<popey> the suggestion was sent to Danny.
<popey> should we confirm via mail to Danny that this is the decision of the CC?
<pleia2> can't hurt
<sabdfl> i'm happy to err on the side of being a big tent with lots of voices inside
<sabdfl> http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html
<popey> sorry, mum just called having trouble getting her mail in chrome on ubuntu
<popey> brb
<popey> back
<popey> \o/ vnc over ssh
<sabdfl> braveheart
<pleia2> :)
<sabdfl> so yes, popey could you reply to danny, affirmative with tag for relevance?
<popey> sure
<popey> [ACTION] popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu
<popey> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<popey> Anything?
<sabdfl> all clear here. should report that debconf this year was most welcoming yet, at least to me
<sabdfl> jorge gave a great talk on ubuntu-debian relations
<pleia2> that's great to hear :)
<Technoviking> excellent:)
<popey> oh yes, you gave a talk on Unity?
<sabdfl> well received, interesting questions, only one pointed comment on U1 which is understandable
<popey> was it videoed?
<czajkowski> shall we be seeing the CC doing monthly reports from now on ?
<popey> czajkowski: ok, will do one
<sabdfl> i think it was, not my greatest oratory but the questions were good
<popey> [ACTION] popey to do monthly report for the CC this month
<MootBot> ACTION received:  popey to do monthly report for the CC this month
<sabdfl> popey: does shakespeare have any good quotes to the effect of "YOU ROCK"?
<sabdfl> if so, i doth quoth the bard in your direction ;-)
<popey> arf
<czajkowski> grin
 * czajkowski hugs popey THANK YOU
<sabdfl> is that a wrap?
 * ajmitch agrees on jcastro's talk being excellent, the bit of it that could be heard on the live stream :)
 * popey takes the bottle of gin from sabdfl 
 * inetpro lol
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> "shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" is probably the closest
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> AlanBell: haha
<sabdfl> ftr, i'm jetlagged, not gin-lagged ;-)
<popey> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:49.
<popey> AlanBell: big and hot?
<sabdfl> cheers all
<sabdfl> wrong channel?
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> lol
<mhall119> Daviey: what were you waving for?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-04
<huats> morning
<highvoltage> * Edubuntu Meeting in 2 minutes
<highvoltage> right! who's here?
<alkisg> o/
 * Lns raises hand
<highvoltage> I meant to send a mail to the mailing list about this meeting, I suck with stuff like that, will sned out a reminder for next week
<highvoltage> Let's start with technical, as usual :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: did you perhaps have some more time to look at the qimo gnome config?
<highvoltage> ok he did say he'll be in and out
 * dinda raises hand while holding a sandwich in the other
<highvoltage> alpha3 is due tomorrow: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<highvoltage> we currently have a broken image but it should be fixed tomorrow morning, if anyone has some time to test that would be great!
<highvoltage> dinda: glad you're here!
 * inetpro observing
<highvoltage> eek, my web browser always chooses the best time to freeze up :)
<highvoltage> dinda: have you seen Gnome Nanny before?
<dinda> highvoltage: nope, it sounds familiar though
<dinda> I was just at Moodle Moot and some of the teachers were asking about such tools
<highvoltage> dinda: I was about to paste you some screenshots and was going to ask you if you ever get requests for that :)
<dinda> highvoltage: I talked to Martin dougiamas about Moodle and the state of our packaging. . .
<highvoltage> yay chromium is alive again
<dinda> highvoltage: I have heard requests from both parents and teachers
<highvoltage> dinda: http://www.tectonic.co.za/2010/06/gnome-nanny/
<dinda> highvoltage: school administrators as well
<highvoltage> it allows limiting time using the computer, web browser, mail and instant messenger, and you can also do content filtering
<dinda> highvoltage: the debate goes back and forth between just teaching 'smart' browsing and using a guardian program
<highvoltage> looks nice for both small school and home setups
<highvoltage> dinda: *nod* I can see valid arguements on both sides
<alkisg> The only drawback I've heard about nanny was that its icon was too childish :D
<dinda> it can't hurt to offer it to those who want it
<highvoltage> dinda: I guess no one would find offense if we actually include something like that in edubuntu, right?
<highvoltage> alkisg: heh, interesting :)
<highvoltage> dinda: sorry, you were saying about moodle packaging?
<Lns> I remember trying to install it once and failing :/
<dgroos> I have a need to be able to manage which web addresses are accessible on the fly.
<dgroos> is there something like that?
<dinda> highvoltage: We were trying to figure out the status of the maintainer
<highvoltage> dgroos: I poked around in nanny, and you can do that there from what I can tell
<dinda> it's in universe and catalyst.nz is the maintainer
<Lns> Yeah, i think that was before it was in a ppa
<dinda> Martin told us he's moving the whole project over to Git. . . .
<dgroos> highvoltage: wow--that is really handy as a way of limiting choices in a productive sense.
<dinda> and let the flames begin. . . .
<highvoltage> which flames would that be? git vs bzr/lp? :)
<dinda> so he would prefer for folks to pull out of CVS and then Git when moved instead of repository
<highvoltage> ah
<dinda> yeah the whole git bzr/lp thing :)
<renglaji> has anyone ever considered including School Tool http://www.schooltool.org/?
<renglaji> sorry http://www.schooltool.org/
<highvoltage> renglaji: we did actually include schooltool in initial edubuntu releases
<dinda> so trying to see if there is a better way/method rather than us also hosting in universe??  i'm not sure on all of this
<renglaji> highvoltage: but it didn't have a great reception?
<highvoltage> renglaji: but the dependencies for it (mostly zope related) were in bad shape so it couldn't be included in the Ubuntu archives anymore
<dinda> renglaji: someone asked me about schooltool yesterday
<renglaji> highvoltage: I see. Thanks
<highvoltage> renglaji: there's some good active work going into fixing that, there's now a dedicated zope maintainer, so schooltool might still make it in the archives for maverick
<dinda> highvotalge: so I guess one, I'm curious to see if anyone might be interested in taking over the Moodle packaging
<highvoltage> for maverick+1 we might be able to look at a school server bundle again that includes that and moodle and other useful web stuff
<dinda> and 2 - see if we can coordinate better with Moodle and git
<dinda> highvoltage: ok , sounds like a blueprint might be worth writing up
<highvoltage> dinda: *nod* I just don't have an easy answer there unfortunately
<highvoltage> dinda: yep, a blueprint might be a good way to get some good feedback/ideas
<dinda> highvoltage: yeah me either, though Martin does promise more regular release cycles once 2.0 is out
<dgroos> Looking at Gnome Nanny doesn't work on the fly nor can one manage groups--a basic need of classroom teachers. :(
<dinda> so at least it "should" be a 6 month cycle starting soon
<highvoltage> dgroos: pity
<Lns> developers, developers, developers! =p
<highvoltage> dgroos: so it's really more for very small classrooms or home use
<dgroos> Yes, looks esp. for homes.
<highvoltage> I just have one other item I need to update on, the ubiquity plugins have made some slight more progress (for configuring additional desktops and ltsp from within ubiquity), it should be in the system (although not quite functional) next week
<highvoltage> I'll poke everyone for testing :)
<highvoltage> I'm not sure if I've showed it in the previous meeting but the desktop chooser will look something like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/maverick/ubiquity-plugins/screenshots/desktop-env.png
<dinda> that is Schweet!
<highvoltage> :)
<dinda> I haven't kept up with the sugar folks lately but curious to see how it's going over there
<highvoltage> dinda: would be nice if you could keep us updated if you follow them, I must admit it's hard for me sometimes to keep up with what everyone is doing
 * alkisg thinks the desktop chooser is cool!
<dinda> highvoltage: me too!  and now hearing from NCOSE - Natl Center for Open source in Education
<highvoltage> the new ltsp configuration from ubiquity should also be nicer than any previous setup we've had to do
<dinda> the conference I was just at had Dell pushing LTSP, well their version built on the dell cloud
<dinda> so not LTSP but VMware/Cisco  KACE solution
<highvoltage> yeah
<dinda> folks in the audience told them about LTSP
<dinda> and one guy even invited them to his school to see his LTSP and Ubuntu lab!
<highvoltage> nice :)
<dinda> it made my day :)
<uros1> Greetings from Belgrade Serbia to all. if it`s possible I have small info for Edubuntu people, I'll wait for the end of the meeting
<highvoltage> that's why I want to get our website sorted out, to showcase those kind of schools
<highvoltage> just waiting for a request to the sysadmins to fix permissions
<dinda> oh if I might also mention some feedback to report from a FLOSSInclude project?
<highvoltage> I guess that's basically it from me :)
<highvoltage> dinda: yes please!
<dinda> http://www.flossinclude.org/
<dinda> We're in the final stages of writing up our case study reports
<dinda> some great info there from all over the world on pilots to use FLOSS in education
<dinda> the results were many things we already knew;  policy and politics not technology were the barriers
<dinda> the good news is that the word open source is now considered mainstream if you will
<pleia2> cool, I'd love to contribute to that once we've got our schools out here in cali documented
<highvoltage> nice, we should link to that
<dinda> it's no longer a hindrance to sys admins and others who fear security issues or not being able to find support
<highvoltage> pleia2: that would be fantastic
<dinda> so while still much work to be done, the future looks bright
<dinda> edubuntu has a good name out there, thanks to you folks :)
<highvoltage> yep, since the last year or so I've heard about ubuntu/free software/etc just about everywhere. overhear people talking about it at the gym, supermarkets, etc.
<uros1> If it`s possible I have small info for Edubuntu people...
<highvoltage> it wasn't like that 10 or even 5 years ago :)
<dinda> i'm done
<highvoltage> dinda: *nod* we need to make it live up to its name though :)
<renglaji> dinda: I am in the process of researching the possibility of starting an Ubuntu/Edubuntu lab at a small school on the Tibetan plateau, do you know if FLOSSInclude will be soliciting another round of grant proposals?
<mhall119> highvoltage: sorry I'm late
<dinda> renglaji: great question!
<highvoltage> mhall119: np!
<mhall119> highvoltage: can we hit on qimo-gnome at the end of the meeting?
<dinda> renglaji: we are looking at ways to collaborate once the initial grant ends in a few months
<dgroos> uros1: speak!
<uros1> ok tnx
<uros1> Several team members expressed interest in supporting schools in two  Belgrade Municipalities (Vracar and Rakovica) where elementary schools  students use Edubuntu based programs. We plan to set up the  infrastructure to help them coordinate and improve skills, both of  teachers and students. We have the opportunity to participate in program  as a official software support.
<dinda> renglaji: email me and I can put you touch with others  dinda  AT ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think we're pretty much there, but if you need to dissappear for a bit, I'll still be here when you get back
<mhall119> highvoltage: cool
<renglaji> dinda: Great! Thanks for the information.
<uros1> Facts: Rakovica municipality â 1104 computers in 14 schools Vracar municipality â 1417 computers in 11 schools Edubuntu 9.04. - 100% localized
<mhall119> so, looking into gconf, I have 2 options for qimo-session-gnome
<uros1> We plan to upgrade computers to Edubuntu 10.04 LTS in October; for that purpose, LoCo members are translating additional applications.
<mhall119> #1 is to have the qimo session keep an entirely different gconf database, for every app that uses gconf
<dinda> uros1: wow, that is awesome
<highvoltage> uros1: wow!
<dgroos> uros1: cool--how long have you been setting this up?
<mhall119> #2 is to have the qimo session set it's configs as uneditable and mandatory, this would only affect settings Qimo needs, but the user wouldn't be able to chose those settings
<uros1> here is media coverage is on serbian, but several photos are there
<uros1> http://www.sk.rs/2009/11/skak01.html
<mhall119> I'm learning towards options #2
<highvoltage> uros1: would we able to do an interview with you at some point?
<uros1> yes and full feedback from Serbian LoCo is on the way
<highvoltage> uros1: yay!
<uros1> :)
<dgroos> I'd be interested in learning how you are encouraging teachers to use them--too bad I can't do Serbian!
<uros1> its easy,edubuntu is free...
<highvoltage> mhall119: ok, I'll try to find some time to also look at the gconf part. it does sound kind of clunky to work with
<dinda> uros1: I started creating some training materials for edubuntu 10.04, anyone is welcome to translate them
<uros1> where_
<mhall119> not really, I just have to set an ENV variable when GDM is starting the qimo session
<uros1> sorry wrong layout where?
<mhall119> which I already do for the Xfce session
<dgroos> I mean, what ways are they instructionally integrated into the classroom?
<dinda> http://learn.ufbt.net/
<highvoltage> mhall119: yeah but the the seperate gconf database thing kind of irks me :)
<dinda> uros1: those were on 9.10 but I'm planning to update to 10.04 soon
<mhall119> highvoltage: which is why I'm leaning towards #2, non-changeable settings for the qimo-only settings
<highvoltage> dinda: do you have a link to that? someone asked me for some training material just yesterday and I coulnd't remember where it was
<dinda> highvoltage: http://learn.ufbt.net/
<dinda> for basic Ubuntu stuff i'd point them to the Getting Started with Ubuntu manual project
<uros1> ah, phone... sorry, well Serbian team have translated Ubuntu manual and LoCo directory, we plan to print them in hardcopy for all users
<highvoltage> I wonder if UCLP would be a good place to consolidate some of the documentation efforts
<uros1> we run up in government program of free educational books, and waiting for result
<uros1> with good chance
<highvoltage> uros1: it would be nice if you could keep in touch and let us know how that goes
<highvoltage> uros1: we usually hang out on #edubuntu and mostly get together once a week on irc in this channel (every wednesday this time)
<highvoltage> I badly want to see more teachers getting involved and communicating with each other, but for that we need more people like you involved :)
<uros1> ok no problemo urosldp at gmail.com is email
<highvoltage> thanks
<uros1> tnx to all for greta work
<highvoltage> mhall119:
<highvoltage> oops,
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'll poke you again a bit later about the gnome bits :)
<dgroos> uros1: to you, too.
<highvoltage> other than that, our next meeting is on 11 August at 19:00 UTC in this channel as usual
<highvoltage> would be nice to get some good momentum going again so please write it down somewhere :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: ok
<highvoltage> and if anyone wants to add something to the agenda, it's up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned, find us in #edubuntu for any further questions :)
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<alkisg> Thanks highvoltage
<dgroos> highvoltage: occasional chatting about it would be a useful strategy as well. goals, needs, etc--getting those out in public.  I'll try to hang a bit more on the irc though I'm out and about these days a good bit.
<highvoltage> dgroos: thanks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-05
<huats> morning
<aday> mpt: hey :) get back ok?
<mpt> Hello hello
<mpt> Hi aday
<mpt> hi andreasn
<andreasn> hi!
<humphreybc> hey
<thorwil> hi all!
<aday> andreasn is here. a new recruit!
<aday> hi all
<andreasn> recruit?
<andreasn> I am?
<andreasn> :)
<mpt> I invited andreasn
<mpt> andreasn, are you on the mailing list?
<mpt> hi humphreybc, hi thorwil
<andreasn> uh, maybe
<andreasn> I got a mail from ayatana-ux@lists.launchpad.net, so I think I am
 * humphreybc is trying out jolicloud
<aday> shall we use mpt's mail as an agenda?
<mpt> okie dokie
<thorwil> "Starting new design projects. There are various small things in Ubuntu that we know need redesigning: for example, Appearance
<thorwil>     settings, display settings, the screenshot utility. How could we organize people to work together on these designs?"
<humphreybc> hold a gun to their head and force them?
<mpt> Places like the Ayatana mailing list have plenty of small ideas, but hardly any sustained efforts
<humphreybc> hello ivanka :)
<thorwil> first thing could be to have a list of those various things
<aday> it would be great to have something like design hub for this
<thorwil> be it on a wiki page, or tickets
<thorwil> aday: that's what i have been saying. the problem is: who's gonna write that and set it up and maintain it?
<aday> thorwil: it was in development, but it seems to have stalled :(
<humphreybc> :(
<mpt> After five years I'm automatically skeptical of any solution to any problem that involves Yet Another Web Site
<mpt> Are there ways we could reuse the communications methods we already have?
<aday> mpt: i'm sure there are. we've been trying to use live.gnome.org/Design to do something like this
<wers> hello
<mpt> Maybe I could just post to ayatana@ and say "It would be cool if people had a go at redesigning these things" and see what happens :-)
<mpt> hi wers
<thorwil> mpt: like i said: for a list or projects and some minimal tracking: wiki page or LP tickets
<wers> hi mpt aday thorwil
<thorwil> hi wers
<aday> wers: hi :)
<mpt> humphreybc, how did that Weather Indicator get started?
<andreasn> yeah, live.gnome.org/Design + bug reports seems to have been working pretty good so far
<humphreybc> I think some people in #omg!ubuntu! decided to randomly start it
<humphreybc> then they left the project
<humphreybc> Ohso (our company) took over and it now has a developer working on it basically full time
<humphreybc> so originally, bored people who saw a need?
<vish> oh , whats up here!
<vish> people in the meeting :D
<andreasn> especially with the Designers and Developers columns, because that means someone is responsible
<thorwil> vish: psst! don't ruin it!
<mpt> hm
<thorwil> mpt: if you'd just post to ayatana with a design task, how would you avoid a blown up "discussion"?
<mpt> oh, there's little hope of avoiding that
<mpt> The question is could we get anything else as well.
<mpt> Actually, the three examples I gave are all generic Gnome stuff, so they could go on live.gnome.org/Design
<andreasn> well, a lot of the noise is drive by comments, right?
<andreasn> for all sorts of things
<mpt> yep
<andreasn> assigning people to stuff and have them be responsible for that full time might work?
<andreasn> so some kind of "commitment to fix something, or be silent" agenda maybe
<aday> mpt: we're planning to have weekly gnome design office hours - that could be a good forum for this kind of discussion (for the gnome-specific stuff, at least)
<humphreybc> I've noticed that a lot of people are willing to work, they just need direction.
<thorwil> regarding responsibility, small package size and high chance of exacting implementation would help with motivation
<mpt> aday, where would that be, and who's "we" in that context?
<vish> mpt: aday's secret hideout , in #gnome-design ;)
<mpt> ah
<aday> mpt: 'we' - anybody who wants to participate :)
<thorwil> note #gnome-design on gimpnet
<vish> thorwil: iirc mpt knows but just forgets to login there since recently ;p
<andreasn> and I think there are people like Thomas Wood who are interested in fixing the Appearance applet, as long as he gets some direction
<andreasn> or, well, we'll see what happens to that one specifically
<mpt> It's because "Add to Favorites" is completely broken in XChat, that's why
<aday> mpt: you know about gnome-design on gitorious too? we're using sparkleshare to share mockups
<mpt> I did not
<thorwil> nah, the Network List is a master piece!!
<mgunes>  hi all, sorry to be late. I'll try to catch up with the remainder of the meeting.
<aday> mpt: http://gitorious.org/gnome-design/gnome-design
<andreasn> mpt, I keep forgetting channels as well.
<mpt> I particularly love the tooltip that says "Channels to join, separated by commas, but not spaces!"
<andreasn> mpt, :)
<andreasn> oh, there is also a right click menu if you click the channel list, this is in xchat-gnome though
<andreasn> ok, drifting off from topic a bit :)
<vish> moving on...
<humphreybc> you all should use pidgin
<humphreybc> works like a charm
<vish> mpt: there is one person , who i think would be interested in working on screenie
<vish> what are the requirements? what language is preferred[i believe he is good in python]?
<wers> vish, ooh. screenie is alive?
<mpt> andreasn, Pongo is currently Python, right?
<vish> wers: well , it was in mpt's agenda
<thorwil> right, 3rd point. not 2nd! ;)
<wers> vish, oh. the log isn't updated so I wasn't able to catch up
<andreasn> mpt, yeah, and it's, hm, works in funny ways sometimes
<andreasn> mpt, but I was surprised Jan actually found use for it
<humphreybc> be back in a bit
<mgunes> in case some of you haven't heard of it: ClutterSmith looks like it might be a useful tool for animated mockups, among other things. I have yet to get it to compile at this point though.
<mpt> vish, so could you point him/her to the project page and suggest adding a graphical interface?
<andreasn> cool!
<andreasn> mpt, and let this person know that a rewrite is fully possible
<andreasn> err... that was to vish
<vish> mpt: sure , but i dont see a specs page , not sure where to point him to , and oddly i cant find the existing code o.0
<andreasn> hbons trick to "trow something horrible together so that others will fix it for you" probably works great for Pongo too :)
<mpt> andreasn, is http://www.andreasn.se/blog/images/pongo.py the latest version?
<vish> oh wait ! lp was just fooling me! found it
<mpt> ok
<andreasn> I think Jan might have done some fixes
<andreasn> checking with him now
<mpt> Who's Jan?
<wers> Jan-Christoph
<andreasn> Borchardt
<mpt> ok, Charline is out at lunch, but I will ask her about how we should research personas
<wers> we're pursuing the open usability lab. he's been playing with pongo
<andreasn> the dude who is doing the testing on Shotwell
<mpt> vish will see if he can find a Screenie contributor
<andreasn> woohoo!
<wers> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~inquata/pongo/pongo/annotate/head:/pongo.py
<mpt> aaaaaand I will post about live.gnome.org/Design to ayatana@, unless aday would like to do that instead
<aday> mpt: i'm happy for you to do it :)
<mpt> humphreybc, do you think perhaps godbyk would be interested in writing a user testing script template?
<mpt> aday, ok
<andreasn> what is a user testing script?
<aday> mpt: i've been adding some resources to the usability project that the ayatana crowd might be interested in, btw
<vish> gah! @ayatana ml :/
<humphreybc> mpt: a user testing script template?
<aday> mpt: http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/GettingStarted  http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HeuristicEvaluation http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/DoingResearch
<mpt> andreasn, the thing you read from when conducting a user test. Including such vital sentences as "We're testing the software, not you."
<andreasn> ooh, I was thinking of a shell script :)
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> I think godbyk could definitely do that
<humphreybc> he might already have
<humphreybc> one
<mpt> neat
<aday> mpt: http://live.gnome.org/Pongo/Tutorial i never finished it though :(
<mpt> Ok, I'm sorry I'm snowed under with other work today so I'll have to bow out now, but feel free to carry on without me. :-)
<aday> actually, most of it's there
<humphreybc> mpt: exciting work no doubt
<aday> anything more to say about the testing stuff or shall we move on?
<thorwil> maybe we could talk about the nice things we will do with our plenty of free time while mpt is snowed under now?
<wers> Jan happens to be writing on the open usability lab Wave right now. You want me to tell him to join the meeting now?
<aday> wers: i lost the link to that...
<wers> aday, which one?
<wers> I meant, he's currenly online and we're talking about the same project
<aday> sorry, ignore me. yeah get him over here
<aday> :)
<mgunes> aday, was the UX advocates BoF at GUADEC recorded on video?
<vish> aday: what's the latest about HIG update?
<aday> mgunes: no, but i'm going to be sending a report to the usability list
<vish> what is changing for HIG3
<aday> vish: same! oh, and i'll be firing off a blog post later today
<vish> cool..
<mgunes> aday, alright, thanks!
<andreasn> * HIG3 will be a pattern library
<andreasn> * + some initial design principles
<aday> mgunes: live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/UXAdvocates
<mpt> I wrote http://live.gnome.org/action/edit/UsabilityProject/HIG3/HandlingErrors while at Guadec
<andreasn> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG3
<andreasn> more writers are needed!
<aday> none of my patterns are finished yet!
<aday> well, 'my' - i welcome contributions :)
<andreasn> wasn't there an etherpad too somewhere?
<aday> andreasn: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ui-patterns
<humphreybc> mpt: you have your own category on OMG! Ubuntu. Do you feel special?
<andreasn> aday, ah, yes, thanks!
<aday> we're off topic again. shall we move on to talk about personas?
<humphreybc> ubuntu manual team has been working on personas
<humphreybc> for use in the manual
<humphreybc> not sure what's happening there atm
<aday> hylke and garrett started some for gnome but there hasn't been any work done for a little while
<andreasn> aday, ok if I link to the pad from the HIG3 wiki page?
<aday> andreasn: it already is 'List of other potential patterns'
<andreasn> ah, sweet!
<aday> is there anybody out there who wants to spend some time on this?
<aday> what kind of research do we want to do for the personas?
<aday> i've drawn up an interview schedule for the gnome design ones, but finding time to do the interviews will be tricky
<aday> some observation based research could also work though. what do people think?
<JanCBorchardt> wers: hey :)
<wers> JanCBorchardt, there you are. I didn't know they were also discussing at #gnome-design
<aday> JanCBorchardt: hello there! :)
<JanCBorchardt> aday: hey to you too ;)
<aday> seems like the testing tools discussion has moved to #gnome-design :P
<wers> yeah. lol
<thorwil> aday: are the interviews something that could be spready, could you try a call for helpers?
<JanCBorchardt> wers: aday: yes, I suggest we discuss about Pongo on gnome-design because it is not really Ubuntu-only. And work has been done on the wiki already
<aday> thorwil: i think it needs to be done by at least one person to begin with - the schedule needs to be piloted, and it might evolve to begin with
<wers> JanCBorchardt, that's right.
<aday> thorwil: i'm wanting to do rather open-ended interviews - which are difficult to distribute
<thorwil> ic
<aday> which isn't to say that others couldn't help
<aday> it would be great if people wanted to try out the schedule
<JanCBorchardt> so who here is actually interested in the user testing stuff? (except for wers and aday ;)
 * thorwil -> coffee
 * aday -> cigarette
<JanCBorchardt> aday: wers: did I miss anything here?
<aday> JanCBorchardt: http://pastebin.com/Dd80bbvD
<aday> JanCBorchardt: i wrote this for pongo. might be useful: http://pastebin.com/Dd80bbvD
<aday> wrong link! http://live.gnome.org/Pongo/Tutorial
<wers> aday, thanks for the  log
<JanCBorchardt> aday: yep, have seen that. I was going to put that in the Guerilla testing blogpost
<JanCBorchardt> and thanks for the log :)
<andreasn> JanCBorchardt, what's the URL to your blog?
<JanCBorchardt> andreasn: http://jancborchardt.wordpress.com/
<JanCBorchardt> only an introduction as of now, I have some drafts of earlier writings
<aday> shall we wrap things up for today? anybody fancy writing some notes for the list?
<JanCBorchardt> I didnât know of the meeting, is it every Thursday at 13 UTC?
<aday> JanCBorchardt: yep. there's a launchpad team - ask mpt to add you
<mgunes> aday, I can do the meeting notes.
<JanCBorchardt> mpt: could you please add me to the Ayatana UX team? I just discovered I applied a while ago
<aday> mgunes: awesome! i would but i'm snowed under right now
<humphreybc> JanCBorchardt: I can add you
<humphreybc> what's your launchpad thing?
<mgunes> it will take some hours though; probably late tonight.
<wers> humphreybc, he's already pending there
<humphreybc> oh okay
<humphreybc> i'll approve him now
<humphreybc> done
<aday> mgunes: no problem :)
<JanCBorchardt> humphreybc: cool, thanks
<mgunes> my suggestion is to use the mailing list for other things than meeting notes, by the way. let's get a bit chatty ;)
<aday> mgunes: yes, we're not utilising it enough right now
<humphreybc> right i'm off guys
<humphreybc> catch you later :)
<aday> me too
<mgunes> aday, right, I prefer the discourse to be more spread out and asynchronous. we'll have to rely less on the meetings that way.
<mgunes> me too. see you all.
<aday> humphreybc: see you!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-01
<smoser> is the DMB meeting in 10 minutes ?
<smoser> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ says so, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda says 13:00 UTC
<Laney> smoser: I believe it is in 70 minutes
<nigelb> ha, UTC != BST.
<Laney> for half of the year :-)
<Laney> anway, must conserve battery on phone so i can attend the meeting
<Laney> toodles
<smoser> Laney, so you think the google calendar shows BST
<nigelb> smoser: Its easier to look at iceland on a clock :)
<smoser> i guess that make ssense, but it squite confusing, and i dont see a way to tell that.
<smoser> i'm just surprised that the calendar there doesn't have an option to show what time zone its showing in.
<nigelb> I wonder if the calender is wrong.
<nigelb> smoser: calender is wrongly saying 12:00 UTC when it should be 13:00 UTC
<cody-somerville> sigh. I thought I had fixed that.
<cody-somerville> wtf
<cody-somerville> I keep setting it to 1300 and Google changes it
<nigelb> cody-somerville: are you setting your time zone to iceland before you do that?
<cody-somerville> to something like that yea
<nigelb> bah, google fail.
<smoser> o/
<soren> cody-somerville: "something like that"?
 * Daviey raises a pair of pompoms for smoser 
<soren> cody-somerville: What are you *actually* setting it to?
<iamfuzz> smoser, always assumed you already were core-dev
<smoser> no, iamfuzz, i am mere mortal.
<iamfuzz> for a few more short minutes
<cody-somerville> bdrung, persia, Laney, maco, stgraber: ping
<stgraber> pong
<cody-somerville> Unfortunately, it appears we don't have quorum today and will be unable to move forward with the meeting. My apologies.
<Daviey> :(
<cody-somerville> In other news, McDonalds charged me for two hashbrowns but only gave me one. :-(
<highvoltage> how *dare* they!
<maco> cody-somerville: wah sorry. i need to send that mail about this meeting time being bad for me :(
 * skaet waves
 * skaet looks around to see if we have quorum for an SRU meeting.
<jibel> Hey skaet :)
<skaet> hiya jibel
<brendand> skaet - i'm here
<skaet> brendand
<skaet> ok,  and sconklin, and bjf have joined.
<skaet> ok,  quorum
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release overview - skaet
<skaet> .
<skaet> 10.04.3
<skaet> Thanks to all who helped putting out the release on July 21.  Appreciate everyone's flexibility to pull it together,  and get that last kernel update pushed out in expedited fashion.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release overview - skaet
<skaet> .
<skaet> There is a new old-releases server,  so the space issues should be resolved for a bit.
<skaet> .
<skaet> I still haven't gotten all the folks lined up for a Tuesday time.  In progress.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Moving in to round table then....
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - brendand
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - brendand
<brendand> == Hardware Certification SRU Report ==
<brendand> â¢ Tested Lucid kernel (2.6.32-33.71): http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/wk29_2011/lucid-proposed.html
<brendand> ...
<skaet> ..?
<skaet> brendand,  are the fails issues with the test infrastructure or something to worry about?
<brendand> skaet - it was established they were infrastructure/test issues. i put my 'pass' on the tracking bug, so no issues to worry about
<skaet> brendand, thanks!
<skaet> any other questions for brendand?
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - hggdh or jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - hggdh or jibel
<jibel> 10.04.3 testing report is available at
<jibel> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidPoint3TestReport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidPoint3TestReport
<jibel> 2 noticeable issues are :
<jibel> were
<jibel> bug 650703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650703 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) "oem-config-prepare works, but oem-config fails to start after reboot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650703
<jibel> the problem with that one, is that the fix has not been ported to lucid on time.
<jibel> bug 588861
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588861 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) ""pad block corrupted" error when trying to register an image with 2.6.34 kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588861
<jibel> which was a regression
<jibel> Kernel testing:
<jibel> * Tested lucid kernel 2.6.32-33.71
<jibel> * Lucid linux-lts-backport-maverick: 2.6.35-30.56~lucid1
<jibel> * Maverick 2.6.35-30.56
<jibel> And that's all from QA.
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel!
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin or bjf
<sconklin> everything we have now is waiting for archive copies
<skaet> ok,  am seeing lucid, and natty there.   will copy both over today.
<skaet> jibel, brendand - what is the outlook on having slots to do the runs on them?
<brendand> skaet - sure, we were really expecting natty soon
<brendand> skaet - we'll have the time
<skaet> brendand,  thanks. :)
<jibel> skaet, I'll tell you after the meeting as hggdh is not around.
<skaet> jibel,  fair enough.  A3 will probably be a resource confict I expect.
<hggdh> huh
<hggdh> we should be able to run the kernel regressions in a few, the machines are being set up
<skaet> hggdh,  good to know.   thanks.
<skaet> any other questions about the upcoming kernels?
<skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
<vanhoof> hi skaet
<skaet> :)
<vanhoof> skaet: currently we look good overall, everything of importance is targetted towards the current natty -proposed
<vanhoof> skaet: we'll be focusing in on the remaining bugs we have open for oneiric, but nothing critical for stable releases this week
<vanhoof> ..
<skaet> thanks vanhoof!  :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other business,  remaining questions/comments?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business,  remaining questions/comments?
<skaet> pitti is on vacation this week,   so am working with other members of the Archive Admin team to backfill as best as possible.
<skaet> please flag things to me in the interim if they're lagging longer than you think, and I'll try to help.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyone else?
<skaet> Thanks brendand, jibel, pitti, sconklin, hggdh, vanhoof
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:25.
<vanhoof> thanks skaet
<jibel> Thanks skaet
<mdeslaur> \o
<kees> o/
<mdeslaur> who want to lead?
<micahg> kees has bot experience
<kees> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is kees.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kees> [topic] stand-up
<MootBot> New Topic:  stand-up
<mdeslaur> kees: make sure it speaks bocce
<kees> okay, so, I'll be at blackhat/defcon this week, so mostly I'll be taking lots of notes
<kees> mdeslaur: but *whine whine* </skywalker>
<mdeslaur> hehe
<kees> while on planes, I'll be trying to continue working on the LP/UCT sync tools
<kees> that's in from me!
<kees> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and will probably be doing community as well
<mdeslaur> I have some samba updates to test and release
<mdeslaur> and plan on working on the hplip/foomatic stuff
<mdeslaur> that's it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're next
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: if you want, I can take community this week
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week, so I'm planning on catching up on work items.
<sbeattie> mostly apparmor related stuff
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: sure
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me; micahg?
<micahg> webkit, patch piloting, release team meeting, and uploading next round of mozilla updates for testing close to EOW
<micahg> also chromium if it ever surfaces
<micahg> ..
<micahg> done
<mdeslaur> who's next?
<micahg> the rest of the meeting?
<kees> yes! er...
<kees> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<kees> had none....
<kees> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<MootBot> New Topic:  Highlighted packages
<kees> I'm not sure how these are chosen. :)
 * micahg would guess repeating last week's if they haven't been fixed yet wouldn't be a bad idea
<mdeslaur> +1
<sbeattie> kees: I *think* it's $UCT/scripts/report-todo-recommend
<kees> sbeattie: ah!
<kees> one moment... processing
<kees> openjdk-6: CVE-2005-1080  *snicker*
<kees> bozohttpd: CVE-2010-2195 CVE-2010-2320
<kees> icinga: CVE-2011-1523 CVE-2011-2179 CVE-2011-2477
<kees> freebsd-sendpr: CVE-2008-5142
<kees> dimp1: CVE-2010-3693
<kees> I will leave the openjdk-6 CVE out, I think :)
<kees> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<kees> anything we need to cover and haven't yet?
<sbeattie> kees: sadly, it needs fixing upstream
<kees> sbeattie: yeah :(
<kees> okay, then I think that's it!
<kees> thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks kees
<kees> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:15.
 * negronjl is away: out to lunch
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-02
<apw> o/
<zul> hilo
<jamespage> o/
<zul> who is running the meeting today?
<smb> \o
<smb> apw, Are yo usure? :)
<zul> pleasenotmepleasenotmepleasenotme
<apw> o\
<zul> i guess its me
<jamespage> utlemming did it last week so I think its hallyn
<zul> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is zul.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<zul> he'll owe me
<zul> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul>     [ACTION] sommer and j1mc to look at doc presentation (continued x 2)
<zul> was that done?
<zul> i guess not carried forward
<SpamapS> no
<SpamapS> no don't carry it
<SpamapS> sommer has stepped down.. and its been continued x 2
<zul> ok not carried forward
<SpamapS> somebody else needs to take that action
<zul> anyone want to volunteer?
<zul> we really need a tech writer i think
<SpamapS> I think the action may be to put out a call for help w/ documentation.
<robbiew> I wonder if kim0 could help
<zul> SpamapS: want to do it? the call for help
<SpamapS> Yeah I'll do it
<robbiew> I'm blocked on a contractor, atm
<zul> [ACTION] Spamaps call for help for documentation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Spamaps call for help for documentation
<zul> ok next is:
<zul> [ACTION] All: review new triage process at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<MootBot> ACTION received:  All: review new triage process at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<zul> i need to do it still
<zul> anyone else read it?
<zul> if not it will be carried forward
<SpamapS> Yes I've been using it
<zul> ok good SpamapS gets a cookie ;)
<hallyn> i've been trying to use it :)
<zul> and hallyn gets a biscuit
<zul> so moving on:
<hallyn> scooby snack!
<zul> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<zul> well the archive is in a soft freeze and its pretty close to FFE
<zul> s/FFE/FF/g
<zul> anyone else want to mention anything
<zul> robbiew: ?
<hallyn> hm, i'd like to merge new libvirt still before ff
<robbiew> update work items!!!!
<smb> zul, xen seems still to be in depwait for ipxe
<zul> again?!
<hallyn> why?  ipxe is packaged yes?
<zul> ill look at it today
<zul> it needs to be seeded
<smb> Or at least I did not see anyting built yet
<zul> ill take a look
<SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-server-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-server-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<SpamapS> looking pretty bad
<smb> hyperair, ipxe was in universe still
<smb> errr
<smb> hallyn,
<smb> xen moved to main, so not getting built until ipxe is in main too
<zul> oh yeah i got a pandaboard booting on oneiric
<zul> anything else?
<zul> ok moviing on..
<zul> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> so next week the ubuntu server team and friends will be sprinting in two different places austin and london and the week after is linuxcon
<zul> anyone has any events they want to bring up?
<zul> if not we will move on
 * SpamapS is done eventing for a while. :)
<zul> heh
<zul> ok so next
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh/apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh/apw)
<zul> we already mentioned the new triaging instructions is there anything else you want to mention
<zul> if not ill move on to the next topic
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<robbiew> zul: Ursinha is at QA sprint same week as LinuxCon
<zul> hi smb
<smb> Currently trying to debug the oneiric kernel not booting on xen hvm
<Ursinha> yes, I am
<Ursinha> OEM QA and Defect Analysts sprint
 * smb wonders how apw made it into the qa team
<zul> smb: whats the xen hvm problem?
<smb> Anyway, I can reproduce it but the traces I got so far indicate that something between the 3.0 kernel and dom0 interacts badly. So I am trying to bisect where it started to go bad
<smb> zul, It hangs on boot
<zul> smb: oh...well that sucks
<smb> Only the 2.6.39+ kernels
<zul> did it work with 4.1?
<zul> but we can tlak about it outside the meeting
<smb> zul, It does not hang at the same place, but that seems to be moving
<zul> crappers...ill talk to you about it after
<smb> k
<zul> anything else?
<smb> not from me
<zul> any questions?
<zul> ...
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<zul> hi NCommander
<NCommander> so our preinstall pool code landed which allows our server images to be fullyinstalledwithoutnetworkon omap4
<NCommander> andmy spacebar is having issues
<zul> what does that mean?
<NCommander> so basically,we're now properly shipping all the debs needed for server installs
<NCommander> the previous set of server images required an internet connection to complete installation
<zul> oh...good
<robbiew> yeah...very goof
<robbiew> good
<robbiew> lol
<zul> anything else?
<NCommander> Our netboot images are also almost fully working, and can currently be used unattended with some minor cavets
<NCommander> I'm running the release as part of the release team so I'll be less available for ARM related work this week
<zul> good now we can just get cobbler to work with it
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> that's all
<zul> any other questions for Ncommander?
<zul> if not
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<zul> anyone want to bring something up?
<zul> if not im starving :)
<SpamapS> one tiny thing
<SpamapS> err.. never mind
<SpamapS> ;)
<zul> ok...
<zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> last chance...
<Ursinha> o/
<Ursinha> all of our reports are being placed where they should be: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/
<Ursinha> sru reports are being updated every 20minutes and triage reports every 10 minutes
<Daviey> \o/
<zul> sweet
<Ursinha> also, I have some graphs for appreciation
<Ursinha> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/ubuntu-server-bugs-oneiric.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/ubuntu-server-bugs-oneiric.html
<Ursinha> I'm working on them thou
<zul> thanks!
<Ursinha> if you want specific data, let me know
<Ursinha> :)
<zul> anyone else?
<Ursinha> ..
<zul> thanks
<zul> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:26.
<dlm_> nick/dlm
<bjf> #
<bjf> # lets "get 'er done"!
<bjf> #
<jjohansen> \o
<sconklin> \o/
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ogasawara> he's on vacation no?
<bjf> ci
<ogasawara> heh
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 29 linux kernel bugs (up 9)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu oneiric-alpha-3 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 21 natty linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 75 oneiric bugs (up 10)
<ogasawara>  * 1466 natty bugs (up 41)
<ogasawara>  * 1089 maverick bugs (down 3)
<ogasawara>  * 933 lucid bugs (up 6)
<ogasawara>  * 32 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 12 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 41 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 74 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 438 natty bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 241 maverick bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 211 lucid bugs (up 3)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 1 natty bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 1 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> ==other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)==
<ogasawara> lag, rsalveti: you have work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview .  Note, these are the only remaining work items for this blueprint.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.0.0-7.9 Ubuntu kernel.  I do not anticipate any last minute uploads and expect this to be the kernel shipping with the Oneiric Alpha-3 release on Thurs.  We're already queueing patches for the first upload following Alpha-3.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~apw/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw> || Package                                  || Open ||
<apw> ||                                          ||      ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    7 ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    5 ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    5 ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    2 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    4 ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    5 ||
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/812360|Hardy Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Awaiting regression testign by QA
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 812360 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.24-29.92 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/818196|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Awaiting certifcation and regression testing
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 818196 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "linux: 2.6.32-33.72 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/808934|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Awaiting publishing
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808934 in Kernel SRU Workflow "linux: 2.6.35-30.56 -proposed tracker" [Undecided,In progress]
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/818175|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Awaiting regression testing
<sconklin> ||
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 818175 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "linux: 2.6.38-11.48 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are always available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bdmurray> o/
<bjf> bdmurray, go
<bdmurray> Just wanted to remind you all about the kerneloops work I've done and take a peak at the reported oopses
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&fi
<bdmurray> so kernel warnings are no longer reported and the bugs get tagged kernel-driver- like bug 818161 which is tagged kernel-driver-i915
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818161 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-3.0.0/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_gem.c:2124! (dup-of: 814460)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818161
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814460 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-3.0.0/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_gem.c:2132!" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814460
<bdmurray> it seems to me like there could get an importance set automatically
<bdmurray> additionally there seem to be some duplicates with the NETDEV WATCHDOG timeouts
<bdmurray> are the watchdogs useful? and should they be autotagged using the (atl1c) information?
<bdmurray> ..
<apw> bdmurray, sounds interesting, perhaps you could write up some pointers and email them out, as i suspect this will be a long topic
<apw> (to the kernel-team@ list)
<apw> those tags look useful so far on quick reading
<apw> ..
<bjf> bdmurray, are these separate scripts or is this part of apport?
<bdmurray> bjf the driver tagging is part of the linux source package hook (which is in apport)
<bdmurray> bjf: the filtering out of WARNINGs is done in kerneloops itself
<bjf> bdmurray, thanks
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:11.
<kamal> thanks bjf
<nigelb> [6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~32
<nigelb> 64
<nigelb> gah
<nigelb> sorry!
<charlie-tca> so, that wasn't code?
<nigelb> that was my attempts at closing my terminal with Shift + enter + ~
<czajkowski> ogra_: reminder meeting in 40 mins
<highvoltage> EMEA RMB meeing in ~25 minutes
<czajkowski> stgraber meeting in ~20 mins
<drubin> meeting in ~6mins
 * stgraber waves
<iulian> 'lo.
<czajkowski> stgraber: hwdy
<Andy80> hi all
<drubin> oo we have a peoples
<Trevinho> Hi
<highvoltage> o/
<Pali> hello
<czajkowski> stgraber: can you chair ?
<stgraber> czajkowski: I'd rather not as I'm multi-tasking between ISO testing, fixing stuff and talking to people IRL
<stgraber> (sorry, it's alpha-3 + pre-FF rush)
<czajkowski> ok
<Trevinho> Yeh, we know!
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> Aloha and welcome to todays EMEA meeting
<czajkowski> stgraber: highvoltage drubin ogra_ are we all here
 * drubin 
 * highvoltage is here
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<czajkowski> is tonights agenda
<czajkowski> so we'll work from the top down
<czajkowski> is lcawte here?
<czajkowski> ok moving on so
<czajkowski> laoshi: you're up next
<laoshi>  o/
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FlemmingChristensen
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FlemmingChristensen
<czajkowski> laoshi: hi so care to tell us about yourself
<iulian> laoshi: Could you please tell us a bit about yourself?
<laoshi> ok
<laoshi> as said on wiki I am moderator of the Danish Team Forum
<laoshi> translator
<laoshi> writer og tips and tricks
<laoshi> and working on a mentoring activity in Danish team
<laoshi> and have kept up propagating Ubuntu for the last 3 years
<laoshi> but please ask any questions
<laoshi> oh, and also LoCo contact for some 4 months
<highvoltage> laoshi: if you could change any one thing in ubuntu, what would that be?
<iulian> laoshi: What is your role within the Danish LoCo team?
<laoshi> great question! the one about change
<laoshi> it is going really fast since ab. 8.04, and we dont get many seriously troubling questions on forum
<laoshi> in the LoCo team I am also a member of the local council
<laoshi> and try to get news both ways
<laoshi> but as I have only been in that function for some 4 months I am still finding my way
<laoshi> I try to keep the LoCo alive!
<czajkowski> laoshi: the danish team have had their issues, how do you go about getting people involved in the team
<laoshi> we try to develop personal relationships through irc, mail, forum, and IRL (especially in Aarhus and Cph)
<laoshi> and in the projects on mentoring and using lernid we reach wider out
<czajkowski> laoshi: ok is there anything else you'd like to add ?
<laoshi> about membership I I see it as a kind of recognition of work already done. And taking on an obligation to keep up working to spread Ubuntu.
<laoshi> so it would be both an honour and an obligation
<czajkowski> highvoltage: drubin iulian stgraber anything else
<highvoltage> nope
<iulian> No.
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of laoshi.
<stgraber> nope
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of laoshi..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<highvoltage> +1 [ long-term forum / loco team work ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<highvoltage> (private votes won't be recorded)
<czajkowski> highvoltage: why not ?
<highvoltage> czajkowski: do we know who made the private vote?
<iulian> czajkowski: Can we actually see who voted?
<czajkowski> no
<drubin> +0 [Lack of documented activities]
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 2 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 2
<czajkowski> but this has never come up before in other meetings
<czajkowski> can who ever voted in pm please pm me
<highvoltage> czajkowski: so if we don't know who voted, then it can't count since only RMB board members are allowed to vote
<czajkowski> ASAP
<stgraber> czajkowski: so how do you know it's an EMEA member and not just some random people in the channel?
<czajkowski> highvoltahuok we dont have this issue
<czajkowski> hence I'm asking
<czajkowski> can who ever voted in pm please pm me ASAP
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> nobody
<czajkowski> great
<czajkowski> :/
<highvoltage> czajkowski: I don't think there's time to do that all the time in meetings, the private votes should just be ignored imho
<drubin> stupid copy paste mistake
 * iulian nods.
<drubin> mine is a +1
<drubin> +1
<czajkowski> highvoltage: bring that up another time :)
<czajkowski> right ok it was a non member
<drubin> czajkowski: please add antoerh +1
<czajkowski> please for the sake of my sanity and this meeting can it only be Members on the board please.
<czajkowski> #endvote
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 4 abstained. Total: 2
<czajkowski> ok at this stage I'm afraid laoshi you were unsuccessful
<laoshi> ok, sorry, but I'll be back at a later time
<czajkowski> Pali: ping
<Pali> pong
<czajkowski> Pali: you're up next
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/pali
<Pali> ok
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/pali
<drubin> henninge: get ready you are up after :)
<henninge> ok
<czajkowski> Pali: ok tell us about yourself please
<Pali> ok
<highvoltage> Pali: wasn't there a legal dispute recently where Blizard entertainment wanted to stop Strattagus development?
<Pali> No, Blizzard did not stop Stratagus development
<Pali> problem was that main developer moved from Stratagus to Boswars
<czajkowski> Pali: what Ubuntu work are you involved in, I see you work on lots of other packages and projects
<highvoltage> Pali: have you perhaps conisdered going the developers route to get membership? considering that most of your work might probably be better suited under the MOTU umbrella?
<Pali> Last I send series of patches for plymouth
<Pali> and I'm maintainer of Kopete skype plugin (in kopete upstream)
 * iulian agrees with highvoltage on that.
<czajkowski> Pali: I think I agree with highvoltage have you looked at the route of MOTU
<czajkowski> I don't see any Ubuntu work here for me to look at
<czajkowski> sorry
<highvoltage> Pali: it's great work that you're doing and have planned, but your wiki page is a bit sparse on the details. I would suggest that you continue with the work as you planned and apply for Ubuntu contributing developer (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev) instead
<Pali> ok
<ScottK> highvoltage: Most of it's upstream work though.
<highvoltage> ScottK: ah
<ScottK> I'm afraid, based on the recent email thread, they'd bounce him back here.
<czajkowski> ScottK: not really isn't the time to bring up that thread tbh
<drubin> Pali: How do you see your self contributing to the ubuntu comunity specifically?
<czajkowski> Pali: your wiki page is lacking in any testimonials ? is there anyone who can vouch for you ?
<ScottK> czajkowski: So if I think you are giving poor advice, I should just stay quiet?
<Pali> I think no
<czajkowski> ScottK: could you pm highvoltage please
<highvoltage> Pali: in that case, I would still recommend the Ubuntu developers route for the work you do on kopete and related packages
<Pali> ok
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Pali membership. Only board members only please and please vote publically.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Pali membership. Only board members only please and please vote publically..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<drubin> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 0
<czajkowski> Pali: I'd suggest talking to highvoltage after the meeting
<ScottK> czajkowski: Trying to PM the same information to multiple people involved in a conversation is silly.  Enjoy your meeting.
<czajkowski> henninge: you're up next
<henninge> Hi!
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenningEggers
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HenningEggers
<iulian> henninge: Can you please introduce yourself?
<czajkowski> henninge: so how long have you been working for CAnonical and in the LP team ?
<henninge> I have been working on the LP team since September 2008.
<highvoltage> henninge: you're very active on Launchpad upstream (which is great), but do you have any Ubuntu specific work you're doing?
<czajkowski> henninge: I ask as you don't have any testimonals really from LP folks, you only have 2 there on your wiki page, does your team or manager know you are going for membership ?
<henninge> czajkowski: no he doesn't, I was not aware he should.
<henninge> I always considred Launchpad work Ubuntu work.
<iulian> Not really...
<highvoltage> henninge: it's not necessary, but getting feedback from people you have worked with is usually helpful
<henninge> That is true.
<highvoltage> (imho feedback from your manager on the launchpad project isn't really directly relevant unless it has something to do with your Ubuntu contributions)
<henninge> that would make sense
<czajkowski> highvoltage: no but was really looking for more than 2 testimonails at least one from a member of LP
<henninge> I have represented Ubuntu at confernces and run UDW session.
<iulian> I honestly don't see what Launchpad has to do with Ubuntu in this case.
<henninge> I have also done some translations work but admittedly have not been very active as a translator lately.
<henninge> iulian: are you serious?
<henninge> Without Launchpad, Ubuntu would not happen.
<henninge> No translations, no package archives, no bug tracking.
<highvoltage> I think it's great that you co-hosted a session at Ubuntu Developer Week and for the Application Developer Week
<henninge> Sure, these things could be done with other tools but as it stands now they are done with Launchpad.
<drubin> henninge: how are you invovled with ubuntu out side of work?
<highvoltage> henninge: In terms of Ubuntu membership, I think we view Launchpad as an upstream project the same way we view Firefox, LibreOffice or Unity
<henninge> Not too much currently, apart from promoting it with my acquaintances whenever I can.
<czajkowski> henninge: is there anything else you wish to add before we vote ?
<henninge> highvoltage: so work on Launchpad (employed or not) would not count as Ubuntu work?
<henninge> Interesting.
<highvoltage> henninge: I don't believe that there is explicit policy on it, but you have to keep in mind that we're more interested in the work you do within the Ubuntu project
<henninge> highvoltage: I understand
<highvoltage> henninge: the short, oversimplified answer... yes
<henninge> czajkowski: just one thing
<czajkowski> henninge: shoot
<drubin> Trevinho: please get ready, we need to speed things up
<henninge> I will be leaving Canonical in September and want to stay connected to Ubuntu. I will use and promote the use of Ubuntu in my next work and see a membership as a good starting point.
<henninge> just wanted to be open about that
<czajkowski> henninge: ok thanks
<henninge> vote ;-)
<czajkowski> henninge: you are already using the @ubuntu.com address..
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the membership of henninge. Board members only please, please vote publically also.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the membership of henninge. Board members only please, please vote publically also..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> henninge: you're definitely ubuntu membership material, I think you just have to add a few things to your existing list of contributions and apply again in the future
<henninge> czajkowski: employees get it
<highvoltage> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from highvoltage. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<drubin> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> henninge: I've talked to jcastro about this....
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> stgraber: ??
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 0
<jcastro> I don't get why launchpad work doesn't count?
<henninge> jcastro: I don't either.
<czajkowski> Trevinho: you're up next
<skaet> launchpad is key to putting ubuntu together....
<drubin> we can discuss this after we have voted.
<czajkowski> jcastro: it does, however it really would have been nice to see LP testimonials on his wiki page
<Trevinho> czajkowski: here I am
<jcastro> ok
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Trevi%C3%B1o
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Trevi%C3%B1o
<henninge> czajkowski: I deliberately asked people outside my team ...
<highvoltage> jcastro: it's an upstream project, like firefox or openoffice. I don't think it should count any less or more than that, but if it should be different, then I'd like to get your inputs on it and why
<jcastro> highvoltage: ok I'd like to discuss that after the vote
<highvoltage> jcastro: ok great
<czajkowski> folks can we please concentrate on current application
<drubin> Andy80: please get ready
<Andy80> yep
<czajkowski> sorry to be a stickler but time is not on our side
<Trevinho> Should I introduce myself?
<drubin> Trevinho: Yes
<Trevinho> ok
<czajkowski> Trevinho: can you tell is about your work in Ubuntu and how you are getting on please
<Trevinho> I'm an Italian Computer Science student and lover of the free software
<Trevinho> In the past times I've contributed or worked in many projects from Compiz to Openmoko, passing over Enlightenment and Vala. In the past I contributed as external packager with my repositories providing mostly compiz and other packages not available in the official repositories.
<Trevinho> Pushing upstream patches and other things I put in my personal work
<Trevinho> Since january I'm mostly involved in the unity development
<Trevinho> working both on indicators, BAMF, and the unityshell itself
<czajkowski> Trevinho: the italian loco is extremely active, are you involved in it at all ?
<Trevinho> I've mostly proveided bug reports, patches and features.
<Trevinho> czajkowski: I know that, however I follow it externally
<Trevinho> also if during the UDS I've met people from the loco
<czajkowski> Trevinho: so would you think being invovled in your loco would help others get involve in Ubuntu ?
 * highvoltage has no questions
<Trevinho> So they introduced me to the ubuntu-it-dev
 * drubin has no questions
 * iulian is ready to vote.
 * stgraber too
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Trevinho membership. Board members only, please vote publically.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Trevinho membership. Board members only, please vote publically..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> +1 [ italian translation work and unity bug fixes ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<czajkowski> +q
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<iulian> +1 - Great work, keep it up!
<MootBot> +1 received from iulian. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<drubin> +1 [Visible comunity effort even if it was devlopment]
<MootBot> +1 received from drubin. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> Trevinho: welcome aboard
<iulian> Trevinho: Congratulations.
<Trevinho> Thank you
<czajkowski> Andy80: you're up next
<Andy80> ok
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaGrandi
<highvoltage> Trevinho: congratulations and welcome
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreaGrandi
<Andy80> My name is Andrea Grandi, I'm an italian student of Computer Science in Firenze and software developer. I use Ubuntu since its first version and in general I'm a Linux user since 1996.
<Trevinho> Thank you all
<drubin> congrants
<Andy80> I'm the president of Pistoia Linux User Group, a local (Pistoia, Italy) Linux group. After attending UDS-O I started contributing to Unity-2D fixing some bugs and currently doing a research in  automated testing for QML UIs.
<highvoltage> Andy80: what's the biggest challenges you face with helping your city mirating from proprietary to free software?
<Andy80> my contribution are listed on the wiki, but feel free to ask me any question, please
<Andy80> highvoltage: basically they don't trust "free" things
<Andy80> they say: why should it work if it's free?
<Andy80> it's a hard job to show them that it works pretty well :)
<Andy80> but I can say that I'm quite satisfied... I mean...
<Andy80> I've contributed to the installation of Ubuntu in a couple of schools (high schools) here in Pistoia
<Andy80> in 3 different companies and with my LUG we're helping the local "public administration" to migrate to free software
<czajkowski> Andy80: are you involved in the ubuntu-it loco ?
<Andy80> we're also working to another project (always using Ubuntu) but it's not strictly related to Ubuntu
<highvoltage> Andy80: I notice on https://launchpad.net/~andreagrandi/+related-software that you haven't made many unity-2d related uploads yet. How do you submit your patches? Via bzr or something?
<Andy80> czajkowski: no I'm not, even if I follow them (blogs, forum ecc...)
<highvoltage> Andy80: and do you have further plans to become involved with Unity upstream or eventually become a per package uploader for unity-2d?
<Andy80> highvoltage: yeah, I submite them using bzr... only 2 patches have been merged for the moment
<Andy80> I'm working on a 3rd one
<czajkowski> ok folks any more questions, or Andy80 have you anything else to say ?
 * stgraber is ready to vote
<Andy80> highvoltage: my contribute will be mainly on Unity-2D since my knowledges are Qt/C++
<stgraber> highvoltage: IIRC unity/unity-2d are done through an upstream release + batch upload of compiz, nux and all the unity packages because of the current dependency/api mess :)
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on Andy80 membership. Board members only, public votes please.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on Andy80 membership. Board members only, public votes please..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<drubin> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from drubin. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<highvoltage> +1 [ I'm actuallly thinking more of a +0.50001, but I tend to round up - good general community work ]
<MootBot> +1 received from highvoltage. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<iulian> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from iulian. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 3
<czajkowski> Unfortunately at this time Andy80 you haven't been successful
<czajkowski> there are 7 people on the board and we need a min of 4 +1 to pass
<czajkowski> Andy80: please keep up the work, and maybe even look at working with ubuntu-it  as well
<highvoltage> Andy80: keep up the good work though and please apply again in a few months. be sure to document your work on your wiki page
<Andy80> why all people didn't vote then?
<czajkowski> Andy80: we have 5 people here out of the 7 which is enough to have the meeting
<czajkowski> drubin: you're writing up the notes of the meeting
<czajkowski> next meeting someone else is to chair :)
<Andy80> well... thanks anyway..
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:03.
<drubin> czajkowski: yes, and I will email them out now
<czajkowski> drubin: grand thanks
<czajkowski> stgraber: highvoltage iulian till next month
<czajkowski> thanks
<highvoltage> we sometimes have a CC meeting followint the EMEA board meeting, is that the case today?
<pleia2> highvoltage: trying to see if we have quorum (doubtful, nothing on the agenda)
<drubin> czajkowski: see you too :)
<highvoltage> pleia2: I'm wondering whether there should be policy on upstream contributions counting towards membership
<pleia2> highvoltage: it's always been something that's considered, but you need ubuntu-specific involvement too
<highvoltage> ie, if someone only contributes to Launchpad or Unity, for example, should that be any different than someone contributing only to the Linux kernel or to Gnome upstream?
<skaet> highvoltage,  the translation work for ubuntu that henninge has been doing is a key part of the infrastructure of delivering it.
<highvoltage> pleia2: *nod*, that's how we're currently voting. I believe skaet and jcastro may have some other inputs on that
<pleia2> highvoltage: I think it depends on how much their work touches the ubuntu community, we've got launchpad folks who don't interact with ubuntu and gnome devs who do
<jcastro> because if we take away mozilla ubuntu can still exist, launchpad .... ?
 * highvoltage can build an ubuntu cd without launchpad though
<skaet> plieia2,  on henninge's page he's been doing a fair bit of community related ubuntu work, for a sustained time as well.
<highvoltage> it's certainly important, but in the end launchpad itself is a upstream project on its own
<highvoltage> and it's not part of the ubuntu project
<highvoltage> (and I'm not making this stuff up, it's just how it is)
<pleia2> launchpad certainly is a tricky example
<jcastro> is it the same for bzr too?
<pleia2> reading some of the backlog now
<jcastro> also, so let me make sure I get this right. If you're doing pure Unity work that doesn't count as ubuntu work?
<highvoltage> jcastro: the way we currently vote, yes
<Andy80> guys, no offence, nothing personal... but I don't think I will apply again.... all this procedure only demotivated me. I'll keep contributing Unity-2D just because I like writing Qt/C++ code and I really like to work with people like Ugo or Florian, but belive me... you've really demotivated me. Thanks anyway for your time and patience.
<highvoltage> jcastro: I'm sure it will count for something, but if it's only upstream work, how can we count it as work in the ubuntu project?
<highvoltage> jcastro: at least, why should we count it anymore than someone who has done pure gnome upstream work or pure kde upstream work?
<jcastro> highvoltage: I don't claim to know the answer, I just want to know what the policy is
<pleia2> Andy80: yikes, sorry to hear that! it does sound like you're close though, I hope you change your mind
<highvoltage> jcastro: ok. currently the policy is to grant membership when someone has shown sustained and significant contributions within the ubuntu project
<pleia2> highvoltage, jcastro, this is a complicated issue, perhaps it can formally be added to the CC agenda? (I'm the only one here right now, and not at all prepared for tihs)
<jcastro> highvoltage: right, I'm just having a hard time understanding how people who enable people to contribute to ubuntu (launchpad), and the people who make our default desktop that ships with ubuntu and has a homepage of unity.ubuntu.com isn't contributing to ubuntu
<highvoltage> jcastro: if someone is an upstream developer to the linux kernel or gnome, for exmample, but have never done any ubuntu work, then we won't grant ubuntu membership
<pleia2> jcastro: we don't automatically make all DDs Ubuntu Members, and that's most of the Ubuntu archive
<highvoltage> pleia2: indeed.
<jcastro> highvoltage: but you don't find gnome on gnome.ubuntu.com, it's a clear, separate project, ditto the kernel.
<jcastro> same with debian, a clear project with it's own goals
<czajkowski> skaet: the issue with henninge page also was it didn't show at least me his work with his collegues, yes I can see he has dholbach and dpm down as testimonials, but nobody from LP is a bit odd
<highvoltage> jcastro: I agree that the lines are more blurred with unity and launchpad
<highvoltage> jcastro: however, it's possible for someone to contribute just to the upstream projects and never be a part of the ubuntu project
<highvoltage> (same goes for bzr)
<jcastro> right I get that, "I wrote some mp3 player make me an ubuntu member" kind of thing
<jcastro> I just am unclear about lp and unity
<jcastro> I mean, unity is hosted on ubuntu.com
<jcastro> same for ensemble, etc.
<czajkowski> Andy80: sorry you feel that way, you only need 1 more vote, and not everyone gets membership on the 1st go also.
<highvoltage> jcastro: so is upstart. so if a debian contributor submits lots of patches to upstart, should we make him an ubuntu member?
<Andy80> czajkowski: this was the second time I was rejected.... no problem, really... I'll just forgive all this and keep developing, don't worry...
<jcastro> ok, well, I guess this is a CC issue then or something
<pleia2> seems like a clarification as to what is an "Ubuntu project" and what is upstream needs to be made
<ScottK> jcastro: I can't imagine why LP work would possibly count for Ubuntu membership.
<jcastro> what's the next step?
<highvoltage> jcastro: or if a fedora contributer submits patches to bzr and unity to make it run it better in fedora, would you like to give them membership too?
<pleia2> jcastro: add to the CC agenda for our meeting in 2 weeks
<Igorots> interesting discussion here
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<jcastro> highvoltage: it's not really that black and white
 * ScottK wonders where people think that non-Ubuntu Canonical stuff should be counted as Ubuntu.
<jcastro> clearly the 2 unity contributors who applied today have made /ubuntu/ better
<ScottK> jcastro: Kernel developers make Ubuntu better too.
<jcastro> I can't really argue hypothetical "what if someone makes it good in fedora would you make them members?"
<pleia2> an email to the CC Cc:ing ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com would also be useful
<czajkowski> thought I am beginging to feel each board is being watched now by canonical to see how board members vote and pick them apart when staff don't get membership tbh, given tonights comments from staff
<skaet> ScottK,  getting the translation infrastructure working and solid is key for Ubuntu being used by local teams.
<jcastro> ScottK: awesome, and when a kernel developer wants to apply to be a member you should look at their contributions
<charlie-tca> czajkowski: +1
<jcastro> I just don't get how it's so black and white
<ScottK> skaet: It's infrastructure though.  It's not part of Ubuntu.
<highvoltage> jcastro: basically, it comes down to sustained and significant contributions withing the ubuntu project. upstream work is great but it's not enough alone.
<czajkowski> charlie-tca: and I for one don't like it, at the end of the day the CC elect this board and others to best judge and now our judgements are being called upon one by one. don't think it's very nice tbh
<AlanBell> jcastro: skaet: I think there might be an opportunity to make sure that employees are better prepared before going for membership
<highvoltage> jcastro: obviously any upstream improvements also makes ubuntu better, but we don't give membership based on upstream work alone. it's nothing new.
<jcastro> AlanBell: I don't see what being an employee has anything to do with it
<jcastro> it's not supposed to anyway
<ScottK> czajkowski: It'd save a lot of time if we just made membership autoamtic for Canonical employees.
<jcastro> ...
<highvoltage> czajkowski: I don't think our judgement is being questioned. this is an important issue and I'm glad that jcastro brought it up
<czajkowski> highvoltage: comments above not from jcastro
<ScottK> jcastro: Because all the special cases are Canonical employees wanting membership based on non-Ubuntu work.
<AlanBell> jcastro: nothing really, but there seems to be an issue that could be solved here
<highvoltage> being an employee or not makes zero diffference to membership applications.
<AlanBell> indeed
<jcastro> ScottK: what about Andy80?
<ScottK> highvoltage: Agreed.  It just makes a difference about the complaining if you don't get it.
<highvoltage> at UDS in Budapest sabdfl explicitely said that employment at Canonical must make no difference (negative or positive) when someone applies for membership
<jcastro> highvoltage: my issue isn't with a person's employment
<jcastro> it's what counts as "ubuntu contribution"
<jcastro> that's what I would like to see discussed
<highvoltage> ScottK: I value constructive criticism, complaining goes to /dev/zero :)
<highvoltage> jcastro: ok, you know how we currently vote on it (I've explained it), you also know what my view is on the matter (I've said it above), I think we should take up pleia2's offer and add it to the next CC meeting agenda
<pleia2> thanks highvoltage
<jcastro> ok that sounds good to me
<highvoltage> jcastro: I'm not saying that the status quo is perfect, but it's how it is and we can explore it further
<jcastro> I mean, if the CC says "that's the way it's going to be" then that's fine
<charlie-tca> It does seem like the most complaints come every time a Canonical employee is turned down
 * iulian nods.
<jcastro> it just doesn't make any sense in my case to encourage unity contributors to become members if that doesn't match with whatever the policy is.
<highvoltage> jcastro: it's also worth considering that maybe not all unity contributors would be candidates for ubuntu membership
<ScottK> jcastro: I think calling Unity development part of Ubuntu and also calling it upstream work that's Canonical's contribution to upstream FOSS work is more than a little wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
<pleia2> this is a good conversation, but I think it would be a lot more helpful to have it with more CC and Membership Board people around
<highvoltage> ie, the case where someone only uses Unity on Fedora or Debian and only submit patches to make it integrate better on those systems
<jcastro> hey that's fine, call it whatever you want, whatever stops wasting people's time
<highvoltage> (it would be great work, but not work in the ubuntu project, that's unity upstream work)
<highvoltage> jcastro: also, the EMEA board are volunteers, we spend our personal time doing this, and we take it seriously
<highvoltage> jcastro: if people feel we are wasting their time, then I am very sorry about that
<jcastro> I didnt' say you didn't
<highvoltage> then say what you say!
<jcastro> I'm just saying it would be nice to have a clear policy so we wouldn't have people applying over and over
<czajkowski> folks can we please note pleia2 comment, the CC are not here for this conversation and it's possibly well worth waiting 2 weeks to bring it up then
<czajkowski> it's really not fair on pleia2
<pleia2> thanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> clearly one needs to repeat things >:(
<highvoltage> sorry pleia2 this isn't meant to be all loaded on you, I believe we were just having conversation on the matter in preperation for the next meeting
<highvoltage> jcastro: currently our policy is to not count clear upstream contributions as ubuntu contributions. if anything is unclear about that you are welcome to PM me.
<jcastro> highvoltage: I am clear on that.
<pleia2> if someone could take responsibility for adding it to the CC agenda and sending an email to community-council@lists.ubuntu.com and ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com (with a link to this log) it would be great
<highvoltage> seems like no one else is biting, I'll do it then :)
<ScottK> I'm confused why anyone is confused about should upstream work count.
<pleia2> thank you :)
<highvoltage> ScottK: I can see how they can be confused. I'm not sure why the clarifications don't help though.
<highvoltage> (it's a reasonably simple concept)
<ScottK> highvoltage: Yes, but it's always been this way, so why now, all of a sudden, do we get all these Canonical people who aren't doing Ubuntu work applying?
<ajmitch> ScottK: the argument seems to be more what's considered part of ubuntu now
<henninge> highvoltage: I guess it's because we (LP devs) don't consider ourselves as upstream to Ubuntu but as part of the project.
<highvoltage> ScottK: whether they are Canonical people or not is irrelevant.
<ScottK> henninge: It's a completely separate project.
<henninge> ScottK: I am just saying that we don't feel that same way.
<iulian> henninge: Then Launchpad isn't what I thought it is.
<highvoltage> ScottK: whether they are doing Ubuntu work is. clearly we have to put in some more definition into what counts as Ubuntu work. I feel for the poor people who apply and get rejected, especially if jcastro told them to apply
<henninge> Yes, I see a communication problem lurking here
 * highvoltage personally doesn't handle rejection well either
<ScottK> henninge: I use LP for a number of projects that (although they are packaged in Ubuntu) are definitely not connected to Ubuntu.  LP definitely supports Ubuntu and Ubuntu development would definitely be much different without it.
<highvoltage> so I think it's worth exploring and making the current documentation more clear to avoid disappointment
<henninge> ScottK: but still LP was created to make Ubuntu possible and that is the reason it keeps existing
<Igorots> highvoltage: +1, there's a gray area on what constitutes as an Ubuntu contribution
<highvoltage> henninge: no, it's not
<iulian> henninge: "Launchpad is an open source suite of tools that help people and teams to work together on software projects."  Which Ubuntu happens to be one of them.
<ScottK> henninge: We could do Ubuntu on a replica of Debian's infrastructure.  It would be quite different, but definitely doable.
<iulian> That quote was from https://help.launchpad.net/ by the way.
<iulian> henninge: It doesn't say anything specifically about Ubuntu.
<highvoltage> Launchpad is very clearly an upstream project outside of the Ubuntu project, as useful as it is. I can't see how anyone could justify another way of looking at it.
<highvoltage> so is Unity, so is bzr, so is upstart, etc, etc, etc
<henninge> i realize that there is quite a differnt perception of LP outside and inside of the team (or Canonical, which is the same for lack of contributors)
<highvoltage> henninge: I don't undertand what you just said.
<henninge> highvoltage: I am just recapping the discussion
<henninge> for me
<henninge> highvoltage: I am just saying that I learned tonight how different the perception is.
<ScottK> One clear criteria that's been suggested to me for this is that anything that's covered by a Canonical contributor agreement is NOT Ubuntu work.
<ScottK> Thinking over the various areas of disagreement, I think that would draw a reasonable, predictable line.
<iulian> henninge: Apparently Launchpad is being recognised as something else within Canonical. That's what makes me believe from what you've just said.
<iulian> ScottK: Hehe, good luck with that.
<highvoltage> ScottK: that's a bit of a different topic than the upstreams one, but indeed, there could be a bit more guidance on that from the CC
<henninge> iulian: yes, that's what I tried to say.
<soren> ScottK: fwiw, I think what henninge meant was that *Launchpad* wouldn't exist without Ubuntu, not the other way around.
<ScottK> highvoltage: It's a possible way to draw a boundary.  Canonical has stated it doesn't require contributor agreements for Ubuntu contribution.
<ScottK> soren: OK.  I believe that.
<iulian> Oh, uhmm.
<highvoltage> ScottK: in all honesty, I can't say we've come accross a case where that was relevant or a problem before
<ScottK> highvoltage: It would answer the question about Unity.
<ScottK> (It does require a contributor agreement)
<henninge> soren, ScottK: correct. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
<ScottK> henninge: It wasn't, but I got it now.
<ScottK> Same for LP, FWIW.
<highvoltage> ScottK: ok, if someone made Ubuntu contributions we'd never check if they signed a CA, and we don't have a way to check either. (personally I don't think it should really matter if they can still show sustained and significant contribution)
<ScottK> highvoltage: I think you're missing my point then.
<henninge> ScottK: OTOH, Ubuntu could *currently* not happen without Launchpad. But I agree that other tools could be used but it would take a *massive* switch to do that.
<highvoltage> ScottK: it seems like I am
<ScottK> I don't care if someone has signed it.
<ScottK> I'm saying work on a project that requires signing it isn't Ubuntu contribution.
<highvoltage> ScottK: why not?
<ScottK> Because that's upstream work.
<charlie-tca> yes, if that was added to membership guidelines, it would be made clear that those are not Ubuntu projects
<ajmitch> convenient place to draw the line between what's ubuntu & what's not
<ScottK> Canonical has said that Ubuntu contributions don't require the agreement, so by definition any contribution that requires the agreement is not Ubuntu contribution.
<highvoltage> ScottK: I guess in most cases where a CA is signed that will indeed be the case
<ScottK> As an example, Canonical dropped some stuff from dbusmenu-qt due to lack of copyright assignment.  We added it back as an Ubuntu patch.
<highvoltage> ScottK: so... the way I see it, it won't really be an issue for us
<ScottK> It was not OK for dbusmenu-qt upstream, but it was fine in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> highvoltage: It won't.  It's just an algorithm for drawing the line between what's an Ubuntu contribution and what's not.
<henninge> late here, Good night. Thanks for the discussion.
<highvoltage> I'm typing out a mail to the CC/RMB lists. I'll pastebin it for those who are not on those lists, or if you want me to send it to via PM/email, then let me know by pm.
<ScottK> highvoltage: Please cc me on the mail.
<ScottK> highvoltage: Also please cc the DMB.
<czajkowski> that mail is gonna get messy on all them lists
<czajkowski> messy/noisey
<highvoltage> czajkowski: I'll try to keep the tone neutral and encourage people to attend the CC meeting instead
<popey> Am I allowed to vote after the meeting?
<popey> given I wasnt around during the meeting but have scrolled up and read the relavent wiki pages?
<czajkowski> popey: no meeting is over... or we;d have to open up all meetings every time we  needed more votes and we had quorum
<ajmitch> I'd assume it'd be like voting on a mailing list
<highvoltage> popey: in cases where we decide to vote by email I believe it's ok, but we have formally closed the vote
<popey> bummer
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-03
 * stgraber waves
 * bdmurray waves
<mvo> hello
<stgraber> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is stgraber.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jhunt_> o/
<stgraber> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<ev> hi
<stgraber> doko: around?
<stgraber> echo $(shuf -e bdmurray ev jhunt_ mvo stgraber)
<doko> yes, but at linaro connect in a meeting
<stgraber> bdmurray ev jhunt_ mvo stgraber
<bdmurray> yeah first!
<doko> my lightning round is just debconf last week, linaro connect this week
<stgraber> doko: ok, thanks!
<bdmurray> bug triage of grub2 regression- bugs that were moved from linux
<bdmurray> update-manager bug triage of bugs with Stacktraces (not python tracebacks)
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity oneiric bug reports and grubinstaller failures
<bdmurray> invalidation of more ubiquity squashfs error bug reports
<bdmurray> cleanup of ubiquity problme with merge lists bug reports
<bdmurray> bug triage of apt-xapian-index, oem-priority bug reports
<bdmurray> adding bug watches to debian bugs while reviewing udd similar titles found via udd querying
<bdmurray> udd query - debian-ubuntu-similar-bug-titles modifications to skip translations bugs
<bdmurray> launchpadlib script package-fixed-find-similar improvements and adding it to ubuntu-qa-tools
<bdmurray> wrote crichton function to tag ubiquity bug reports with the package version and release
<bdmurray> wrote crichton function to find syslogs with tracebacks in them and modify ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> branch fixing update-manager's disabling of deb-src entries in /etc/apt/sources.list and a string fix for bug 510581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 510581 in calibre (Ubuntu) "calibre don't start, error(<unknown>:4907): CRITICAL **: atk_object_set_name: assertion `name != NULL' failed, segmentation fault" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510581
<bdmurray> well that was the wrong number
<bdmurray> -- done --
<ev> - Split libmap out of indicator-datetime to create libtimezonemap.
<ev> - Added GI bindings to the above and reworked the timezone structures as
<ev>   GObjects so that they get exported by GI.
<ev> - cdimage fixes for Wubi.
<ev> - Merged evfool's usb-creator branch for Unity integration.
<ev> - Some integration work on the wireless page for Ubiquity.
<ev> - Fixes around the Wubi first boot code.
<ev> - Added image pruning and an .htaccess to the Wubi disk image builds.
<ev> - Started looking into trimming the fat on Wubi, as it's grown by 0.9 MB:
<ev>   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PP8fw2IWgH5oU8ytrXv6Fzsdu5afLrRcDm6-d6u7-T0/edit?hl=en_US
<ev> - Fixes to the PyGI branch of Ubiquity.  Will be ready to go after some CSS
<ev>   work, untangling the mainloop mess, and libtimezonemap gets into the
<ev>   archive.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Wubi migration.
<ev> - Cheese MIR.
<jhunt_> Spent last week with Keybuk and travelling. Lots of juicy Upstart
<jhunt_> discussions and coding. On holiday Monday. Yesterday + today spent
<jhunt_> working on Upstart job logging feature (bug 328881).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328881 in upstart "init: support logging of job output" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328881
<jhunt_> EOT
<mvo> software-center: work on exhibits functionatlity (paging dots, UI etc), discuss more flexible exhibits API with #isd, branch review/merges, fix webkitgtk window open/close, lots of tests added for the gtk3 code
<mvo> a3: upgrade testing, fix file conffile issue #82023, command-not-found data update, ap-install-data update (not uploaded as the size was quite big)
<mvo> app-install-data: work on improved extraction and reducing the size of the icon data (looks pretty good so far)
<mvo> apt: work on 0.8.16 (ABI break), fixes two crashers in multiarch apt, fix python-apt test-suite failure, invalidate pkgcache if sources.list changes to catch updates in e.g. sources.list line ordering, merge another patch from  Jonathan Thomas to speed up the debcache, cleanup in the cdrom method
<mvo> patch pilot!
<mvo> aptdaemon: add reboot-required property
<mvo> update-manager: debug/workaround issue with incomplete grub configs seen in the auto-upgrade-tester because of the transition from update-grub to /etc/kernel/postinst.d, merges, cleanup
<mvo> EOF
<stgraber> oh, already my turn :)
<mvo> *lighting*
<stgraber> - multipath testing last week, started to play with my SAN this week
<mvo> ;)
<stgraber> - implemented the DBUS filtering proxy for arkose: http://www.stgraber.org/2011/08/02/introducing-arkoses-protocol-aware-dbus-filtering-proxy/ (useful if you want to restrict or trace a software using DBUS)
<stgraber> - done some more IPv6 testing and poked NM upstream to get Network Manager RFC compliant
<stgraber> - fixed LTSP to boot on Oneiric again
<stgraber> - patch pilot last Wednesday afternoon
<mvo> eh, lightning even
<stgraber> - worked on fixing Edubuntu and Ubuntu for alpha-3 (still doing so)
<stgraber> - Next week at the LXC hackfest in Austin and the week after that in Vancouver for LinuxconNA
<stgraber> (done)
<mvo> dbus proxy \o/
<stgraber> yep, I should have it integrated next week during the LXC/container hackfest. My goal is to put nice names on top of all these DBUS interfaces/paths
<stgraber> so ideally gedit should show you:
<stgraber>  - Use the Ubuntu Global menu
<stgraber>  - Access gedit configuration
<stgraber> just need to work on a set of basic profiles and put names on them
<stgraber> [TOPIC] Oneiric bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric bugs
<stgraber> bdmurray: anything?
<bdmurray> yes there have been some showing up with the iso testing
<bdmurray> bug 819106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819106 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "msttcorefonts fails to install because of bad fontconfig interaction" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819106
<bdmurray> that actually has a patch in it if someone could review it
<mvo> I can have a look
<bdmurray> mvo: thanks
<bdmurray> stgraber: and bug 820372 looks like something for you
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820372 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "default session set to GNOME and fails. Should be Unity" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820372
<stgraber> bdmurray: this one is gnome-session's fault :)
<bdmurray> okay
<stgraber> bdmurray: I'll poke didrocks, I think he was the one who fixed it for Natty
<stgraber> basically LTSP calls /etc/X11/Xsession which is supposed to start the default session
<stgraber> which is currently gnome-session
<stgraber> but starting gnome-session without --session=ubuntu gives you that error message
<bdmurray> sounds good thanks
<stgraber> (and that's obviously wrong)
<bdmurray> thats it so far - still reviewing the iso-testing bugs
<stgraber> thanks
<stgraber> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mvo> the code in the patch looks fine, but I really would like to understand whats going on there, before applying it, it smeels a bit like a workaround
<mvo> software-center was on OMGubuntu
<stgraber> again? :)
<bdmurray> mvo:  it is the debian bug has more info
<mvo> stgraber: well, two days ago :)
<bdmurray> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=636173
<mvo> or so
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=636173
<ubottu> Debian bug 636173 in fontconfig "fontconfig: Don't "clean up" on a new install" [Normal,Open]
<mvo> thanks bdmurray
 * stgraber refreshes his copy of the software-center code
<mvo> stgraber:  check the ./software-center-gtk3 if you want to see the fancy new stuff
<stgraber> mvo: did you port my weblive stuff to the gtk3 version yet? or should I do that?
<mvo> stgraber: that should work, but I did not test it much
 * mvo actually double checks
<mvo> works for me
<stgraber> ok, it starts but doesn't give you progress information when used with x2go
<stgraber> so seems like the events sent by the backend are lost somewhere. I'll have a look later.
<stgraber> anything else?
<mvo> oh, thats possible
<mvo> the progress I have not checked
<stgraber> when you disconnect, the button also remains greyed out, so it doesn't even get the DISCONNECTED event from the backend
<mvo> I get some lambda error here, maybe that is releated
<stgraber> should be easy enough to fix at least
<mvo> yeah
<stgraber> ok, I guess that's it then
<stgraber> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:23.
<ev> thanks
<stgraber> everyone can get back to fixing whatever they need fixing for alpha-3 :)
 * Ursinha looks around
 * Ursinha wonders if her calendar is mistaken
<bdmurray> I thought it was now too
<Ursinha> hggdh: hi :) are we missing something or the QA meeting was supposed to happen around.. now?
<jibel> who is chairing today ?
<Ursinha> jibel: previous logs say "chair auto-selection: jibel"
<Ursinha> :)
<jibel> haha, easy I was not there and I chaired twice previously.
<jibel> anyway, do we have the quorum
<jibel> hggdh, patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray charlie-tca Ursinha around ?
<Ursinha> I suppose :)
<bdmurray> o/
<Ursinha> o/
<hggdh> ~o~
<Ursinha> lol
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> \o/
<jibel> patrickmw, PATRICKMW !
<patrickmw> jibel: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<jibel> heh
<jibel> Lets go
<jibel> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:11. The chair is jibel.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * hggdh begs pardon, in the middle of a blasted RAID1 test
<jibel> [TOPIC] Previous Actions (all)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions (all)
<jibel> any action anyone ?
<hggdh> none here
<jibel> ok thanks hggdh
<charlie-tca> I don't remember any
<jibel> [TOPIC] Community testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community testing
<jibel> we are currently testing Oneiric alpha3
<jibel> new images are currently being rebuilt
<jibel> fresh Ubuntu DVDs and desktop images are available but there is a failure with the installer
<jibel> bug 802485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 802485 in firefox (Ubuntu) "flash player crash problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/802485
<jibel> the engineering team is investigating
<jibel> bug 820485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820485 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "ubiquity stops installation at 'Configuring target system'" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820485
<jibel> hm better
 * charlie-tca nods
<jibel> so we will need a lot of testing to get the images on time for the release tomorrow.
<jibel> any help is welcome
<jibel> that's all from me
<jibel> any question ?
<hggdh> \o
<jibel> hggdh, what is your question ?
<jibel> or comment
<hggdh> should we expect a respin?
<jibel> hggdh, yes.
<jibel> at least desktop images
<hggdh> generic, or just desktop (specifically, I am worried about the server :-)
<hggdh> oh
 * hggdh is too slow to type
<hggdh> thank you jibel
<jibel> did you identify something that would require a respin of server images ?
<bdmurray> hggdh: you noob
<hggdh> :-)
<jibel> hggdh, ^ did you see my question or are you still typing ;-)
<bdmurray> lol
<hggdh> jibel: (still typing)
<jibel> :)
<hggdh> jibel: nothing seen so far, going through all tests now
<jibel> oh I forgot.
<jibel> for A3 there is a new candidate available for testing: Lubuntu
<jibel> the lubuntu team will be happy if you can help them testing their images
<jibel> and we removed eucalyptus from the test plan
<jibel> ..
<jibel> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing patrickmw
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing patrickmw
<patrickmw> hello
<patrickmw> = Kernel SRU =
<patrickmw> * Lucid -updates and -proposed running ltp tests with the correct update workflow and cd images
<patrickmw> = QA Lab =
<patrickmw> * sigh
<patrickmw> * another machine is out of service - albali
<patrickmw> * new new alderbaran is awaiting an RT to be completed in order to finish setup for testing
<patrickmw> * currently we only have 1 server running all tests - Wazn aka Old Faithful
<patrickmw> * Jenkins backup script in progress
<patrickmw> = Public Jenkins =
<patrickmw> * update from IS - should be this week!
<patrickmw> = Status Blog =
<patrickmw> * http://ubuntuqa.wordpress.com/  - note may not be permanent location
<patrickmw> questions?
<patrickmw> ..
<jibel> o/
<patrickmw> yo
<jibel> not a question but an advertisement
<jibel> the automated framework used by the QA team for kernel and image testing is there https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-server-iso-testing
<jibel> If you're interested in contributing to testing automation you can start here and provide new tests or improve the framework.
<jibel> don't hesitate to ping us on #ubuntu-testing or the qa mailing list if you need help with this.
<jibel> ..
 * hggdh notes that the name -- ubuntu-*server*-iso-testing is misleading: this has *ALL* tests , server or not
<hggdh> so please help :-)
<jibel> moving on
<jibel> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status bdmurray pedro_ Ursinha
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status bdmurray pedro_ Ursinha
<Ursinha> I've been working in two things:
<Ursinha> - triaging bugs
<Ursinha> - concentrating all ubuntu-server reports in status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/
<Ursinha> triage report and sru report are being generated every 10/30 minutes
<Ursinha> also, I'm working on graphs to measure how many bugs we file/close per cycle
<Ursinha> can also be found there
<Ursinha> ..
<bdmurray> I've been looking at update-manager bug reports a fair bit and introducing some auto triage
<bdmurray> well to a degree - I'm autotagging bug reports with the version of ubiquity and also the release of Ubuntu that version existed in
<bdmurray> Additionally, I'm currently search log files for Tracebacks in them and tagging those bugs installer-crash and adding the traceback to the bug as a comment
<bdmurray> From there hopefully I can do some duplicate consolidation
<Ursinha> (cool!)
<bdmurray> adding bug watches to debian bugs while reviewing udd similar titles found via udd querying
<bdmurray> udd query - debian-ubuntu-similar-bug-titles modifications to skip translations bugs
<bdmurray> launchpadlib script package-fixed-find-similar improvements and adding it to ubuntu-qa-tools
<bdmurray> branch fixing update-manager's disabling of deb-src entries in /etc/apt/sources.list
<bdmurray> ..
<pedro_> Hello, besides normal bug triage, I wrote a few apport bug pattterns for g-s-d bug 804896, bug 804472 and bug 804221 zeitgeist bug 807950 metacity bug 797078 gnome-terminal 810681 nautilus bug 804891 and totem bug 816740 and an apport hook for lightdm
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804896 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Oneiric) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:140: dequeue_pending_request: Assertion `req == dpy->xcb->pending_requests' failed." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804896
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804472 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:221: poll_for_event: Assertion `(((long) (event_sequence) - (long) (dpy->request)) <= 0)' failed." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 804221 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon assert failure: gnome-settings-daemon: ../../src/xcb_io.c:515: _XReply: Assertion `!dpy->xcb->reply_data' failed." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804221
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807950 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Oneiric) "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with LookupError in remove_from_connection(): <_zeitgeist.engine.remote.RemoteInterface at /org/gnome/zeitgeist/log/activity at 0xb74ee2cc> is not exported at a location matching (None,None)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 797078 in metacity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "metacity crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797078
<bdmurray> hooray for bug patterns!
<pedro_> (sorry for the flood)
<Ursinha> :)
<pedro_> and a PS: i won't be around next week for the meeting or most of it since i'll be at the desktop summit
<Ursinha> pedro_: I have a branch to propose merging to the code you pushed to ubuntu-defect-analysts
<pedro_> Ursinha, cool! lets work on that after the meeting :-)
<pedro_> ..
<jibel> any question ?
<jibel> [TOPIC] Other topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other topics
<jibel> any other topic you'd like to discuss today ?
<jibel> [TOPIC] Chair selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair selection
<charlie-tca> Well, I am feeling left out. I guess I can volunteer for it
<jibel> $ shuf -e hggdh, patrickmw pedro_ bdmurray charlie-tca Ursinha|head -1
<jibel> bdmurray
<Ursinha> hahaha
<jibel> bdmurray, you lucky
<hggdh> hey I like that
<pedro_> lol
<pedro_> we should do that every week
<jibel> [ACTION] charlie-tca to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  charlie-tca to chair next meeting
<jibel> (because he volunteered)
<charlie-tca> I have to remember that shuffle thing, though
<jibel> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
<Ursinha> gotta love irc logs for that :)
<charlie-tca> That's pretty neat
<jibel> thanks all
<pedro_> jibel, thanks for chairing!
<charlie-tca> Thanks, jibel
<Ursinha> thanks all :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-04
<ogra_> plof
<Martyn> pop
<NCommander>  morning
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra_> aoiefz
<NCommander> morning all
<NCommander> who else is here?
 * GrueMaster is not
<cmagina> mornin
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item View
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item View
<NCommander> NCommander to postpone ogra's workitems
<NCommander> [tpoic] NCommander to postpone ogra's workitems
<NCommander> co, though now that ogra is here probably irrevelant
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-3.html
<NCommander> hrm, looks like the burn bot hasn't been run in several days
<GrueMaster> NCommander: Try http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-arm-ubuntu-11.10.html
<janimo> hi
<NCommander> morning janimo
<GrueMaster> Although it may have something to do wit hthe group name change.
<NCommander> thats probably what broke it
<NCommander> [action] ogra to repair burn bot for ubuntu-armel -> arm name
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to repair burn bot for ubuntu-armel -> arm name
<NCommander> Anyone else want to bring anything else, or can I move on?
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> we should just start using status.ubuntu.com ;)
<ogra_> way more bling :)
<janimo> I was only looking at that lately
<NCommander> status.u.c. is great BUT it doesn't show per milestone status
<ogra_> should have us now
<NCommander> ogra_: I ddin't take you for a blig guy :-P
<ogra_> ask GrueMaster what i complained about yesterday when i saw the OMAP wikipage :P
<ogra_> whats thatz team renaming thing ?
<NCommander> ogra_: davidm renamed the team from ~ubuntu-armel to ~ubuntu-arml
<ogra_> am i supposed to know about it ? and if so, why dont i
<NCommander> ogra_: we probably said something while you were out.
<ogra_> hmm, i didnt get an LP mail for that
<ogra_> NCommander, no, but LP should notify me as team admin about such a change, thanks, i'll take care
<ogra_> (move)
<NCommander> ogra_: lets take this offline
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> A3 images have been built and tested by our lovely QA tester GrueMaster !
<GrueMaster> Hey, I am anything but lovely.
<NCommander> omap4 netboot images are in good shape, but omap3 is suffering from a f-k-i bug so won't be released with A3 and will get fixed with the next f-k remark
<GrueMaster> Only the netinstall image.  All other omap images are good to go.
<NCommander> In addition, infinity landed preintsall pool so server images are now 'complete'
<NCommander> Any questions or comments on server?
<NCommander> if you do, type 'o/' in the channel and I'[ll hold until you type it up
<janimo> o/
<janimo> do devel/headless images come back or it is server only?
<ogra_> its server only
<NCommander> what ogra said
<mahmoh> o/
<janimo> good
<ogra_> headless is just server without anything in the pool
<mahmoh> when will we have a server kernel ;)
<ogra_> NCommander, preseed file support will land on the weekend btw
<GrueMaster> Probably not until 12.04.
<ogra_> mahmoh, question for the kernel team i guess :)
<NCommander> when we have proper divinme intervention and a large dontation of beer to the kernel team
<mahmoh> who's going to take up the donation pool planning?
<NCommander> My impression is for ARM server images, we'll probably look into that with 12.04
<NCommander> mahmoh: I recommend buying a beer factory as step one :-)
<NCommander> Step two involves building a pipe
<cmagina> any one have a truck and a trailer they can load up for UDS for our donation?
<mahmoh> I would suggest that it's critical for O
<mahmoh> davidm: ^
<GrueMaster> mahmoh: O is only a pipe cleaning for arm server.
<NCommander> mahmoh: davidm is at LDS, so he's kinda unavailable
<NCommander> mahmoh: why don't we take the discuss offline and come back with something
<ogra_> mahmoh, O really depends on hardware availability
<mahmoh> yes it is and that's why we need a server kernel to pipe clean with
<ogra_> (and our movement forward)
<mahmoh> server is packaging + kernel <- emphasis here
<mahmoh> ok
<NCommander> mahmoh: I don't want to rathole the meeting so lets bring this up alter
<NCommander> Great
<ogra_> note that this will double the build time of our kernel
<NCommander> [action] NCommander and mahmoh to discuss server ARM image variants
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander and mahmoh to discuss server ARM image variants
<NCommander> ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<NCommander> FTBFS/installability list is not looking happy
<NCommander> (and as before, please type 'o/' or I will continue on after a minute at teh end)
<janimo> did the usual give-backs and a sponsored upload, triaged no longer FTBFA bugs out of the Linaro Jam list
<NCommander> janimo: any luck with emacs23?
<janimo> NCommander, emacs FTBFS is multiarch related, not arm specific
<janimo> the bug that discussed it did not go far
<janimo> slangasek commented on it last I think
<NCommander> -_-;
<NCommander> I'll poke it with a spork later
<NCommander> we did have some random odds and ends failures but I'm not too concnered
<janimo> I set our FTBFS bug as a dup of the original one filed
<NCommander> I didn't make any ground with ocaml this week due to doing the release with skaet
<janimo> NCommander, I was under the impression gcc folk were on the ocaml bug as well
<janimo> but no progress from there either
<janimo> I think many of our bugs linger as almost none of the many failures are actually assigned to a particular dev
<NCommander> I had a few ideas at monospace about the bug, but I'll have to wait until after release to see if they puter out
<NCommander> janimo: I'll go through an assign FTBFS bugs again in thatcase
<janimo> likewise FTBFS again, but Illleave that to the likewise/server folk
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to create/assign FTBFS bugs to ARM team members
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to create/assign FTBFS bugs to ARM team members
<janimo> NCommander, assigning makes sense, when someone actually knows how to fix it. Sometimes it is clearly our job (random packaging bugs) other times it is Linaro (gcc/glibs errors)
<NCommander> I'll go through main bugs nearly next week or Friday depending on how much I move with this release :-)
<NCommander> janimo: lets move on
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> well, they build
<ogra_> ac100 should land next week (a bit delayed due to my vacation)
<NCommander> Server images are built and working. Ubuntu Desktop A3 also was built and published and tested yesterday, as was ubuntu-core
<GrueMaster> There needs to be an iMX5# image soon so that the kubuntu team can do most of their own validation work.
<GrueMaster> I don't mind testing the image installation on platforms they don't have, but when there are failures in the kde code, the kde bug system tracks it (not launchpad) and someone upstream always hounds me to test more.
<NCommander> We're looking pretty good for A
<NCommander> *A3
 * ogra_ bows down deeply in front of NCommander and GrueMaster 
<ogra_> youb guys made a3 happen almost alone !
<NCommander> ogra_: GrueMaster been turning the testing crank, I've been playing remember manager :-)
<GrueMaster> Don't I always?
<ogra_> yeah, i watched that :)
<NCommander> anything else or can we move?
<ogra_> the mx5 images ...
<NCommander> infinity was working on them
<ogra_> GrueMaster, thats specifically for the 53 or for the efika ?
<NCommander> I have no idea of status
<GrueMaster> Was just going to ask about those.
<GrueMaster> yes.
<ogra_> NCommander, well, he is (and will stay) busy with hf for a while i guess
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to follow up with infinity and relative stakeholders on mx5 images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to follow up with infinity and relative stakeholders on mx5 images
<GrueMaster> I was told it should work on both.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, there was an "or" in the question :P
<NCommander> With !infinity, there's nothing else to report here
<ogra_> ah :)
<NCommander> anything else or can I move
 * janimo was told I'd work on mx53 images too
<ogra_> janimo, do you have HW already ?
<janimo> in Dublin
<janimo> no, davidm sad he'd send it this Monday
<ogra_> well, just start it then, or pick up where adam had to stop
<NCommander> janimo: poke me or ogra with the sticks of sharpness if you get stuck
<NCommander> anyone else?
<janimo> one I get hw I'll start, sure
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster,mahmoh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster,mahmoh)
<GrueMaster> Alpha 3 testing went through woithout any major hangups, although not as much desktop testing as I would have liked.  This is largely due to the massive undertaking with the server testing.
<GrueMaster> I have also been asked to do a few small side testing projects which I should have finished by tomorrow.  These are easily slipstreamed into my daily QA work so they won't interfere.
<janimo> I tested desktop yesterday on panda but would not finish install
<ogra_> anything we can do to make that better ?
<ogra_> do you want to share out some testing tasks ? should we assign bits to one of us ?
<janimo> kept restarting from the beginning. But my panda acts weirdly many times so I am not sure it is a bug
<GrueMaster> A lot of the server tests have required an inordinate amout of research to configure as I have never setup those envirnments before and they aren't tested anywhere else.
<GrueMaster> IPV6, IPSec (has a kernel bug filed), clusters, etc.
<GrueMaster> I can run the tests given step by step instructions, and they usually only take an hour or so once I get to that stage.
<GrueMaster> But having to figure out what is involved has been the most time consuming.
<ogra_> yeah
 * NCommander hugs GrueMaster for his testing efforts
<janimo> GrueMaster, server team takes those for granted and have no explicit testcases right?
<NCommander> GrueMaster: anything else or can I move on?
<GrueMaster> For the mostpart, yes.
 * ogra_ has nothing
<mahmoh> GrueMaster's taking the brunt of the beatings, I've been researching and prioritizing testing, updating the wiki, and submitting u-boot bugs with a focus on pxe boot since that's critical for many of the cloud requirements and server in general, and planning a regrouping, that's all for me
<NCommander> [topic] Wiki updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki updates
<NCommander> Just wnated to thank everyone for the work and effort on cleaning out the wiki
<NCommander> especially now that our meeting pages liveunde rARM and not Mobile
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> janimo: uh?  I'm pretty sure I already fixed the only emacs23 multiarch build failure
<NCommander> I'll be in Austin next week. Anyone interested in beers or RL contact can find me there
<janimo> skype call tonight with people at the Linaro sprint?
<ogra_> janimo, well, we'll surely have a call
<janimo> slangasek, that would be great. Although it still FTBFS on arm last build
<janimo> unless you did it yesterday
<janimo> NCommander, kirkland is there, you can talk server stuff :)
<slangasek> janimo: no, last cycle
<janimo> slangasek, ah. This is the crt1.o & co not found because it is looked for in /usr/lib issue
<slangasek> janimo: it's FTBFS on armel only. what bug #?
<slangasek> yes, I definitely fixed that bug last cycle :)
<NCommander> Anything else (use o/ to interrupt)
<janimo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emacs23/+bug/746510
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 746510 in emacs23 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "FTBFS Emacs23.2 on Natty from multiarch implemented " [Medium,Triaged]
<NCommander> ah
<janimo> NCommander, sorry for the tangents here
<NCommander> itsa AOB
<NCommander> tangents allowed :-)
<NCommander> Just want to close out if we're done
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> going twice
<NCommander> going three times
<NCommander> cya all later
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<janimo> slangasek, so on the above bug you had the lat substantial comment
<slangasek> janimo: right, I see it - ok, different bug than the one I was remembering, and indeed, that's still broken in oneiric :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-05
 * skaet waves
<micahg> o/
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-09-05
<skaet> A couple of folk are traveling, and having schedule conflicts, so we'll be moving a few folks around from the usual pattern today.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-09-05
<skaet> .
<skaet> Events Approaching:
<skaet> â¢ 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011 at 1800 UTC
<skaet> â¢ Beta 1: Sept 1, 2011.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Other News:
<skaet> Alpha 3 11.10 release!   A big THANK YOU to all developers, testers and release team members who helped make it happen!!   :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric beta-1 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39143
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=39143
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<micahg> o/
<skaet> yup micahg ?
<micahg> link to topic is broken
<micahg> s/topic/agenda/
<micahg> should be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-05
<micahg> ..
<skaet> s/09/08/
<skaet> yup.
<skaet> sorry about that.
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-05
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-08-05
<skaet> thanks for pointing it out micahg :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> if not,  on to the round table.
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA team update -  pgraner
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  pgraner
<pgraner> == Results of Alpha 3 ISO Testing ==
<pgraner> Thanks again to all the testers! We couldn't have done it with out you.
<pgraner> Testing report
<pgraner> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha3TestReport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha3TestReport
<pgraner> List of bugs found during testing
<pgraner> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha3TestReport/Failures
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/OneiricAlpha3TestReport/Failures
<pgraner> Email of test bugs found broken out by team sent to ubuntu-devel
<pgraner> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-August/033904.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-August/033904.html
<pgraner> The QA team will be reviewing all bugs in 7 days and following up with the teams on the ones that have not changed status.
<pgraner> Note to the defect analysts & engineering teams:
<pgraner> 13 bugs out of a total of 77 are still in New/Undecided status and need triage
<pgraner> 4 bugs are High or Critical importance and not assigned
<pgraner> ..
<skaet> Thanks pgraner!
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - mlegris
<mlegris> Hi all!
<skaet> :)
<mlegris> [Week 31 Testing report]
<mlegris> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week31_2011.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/week31_2011.html
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Bugs:
<mlegris> * Â Bug #810145 - unity-panel-service crashes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810145 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGABRT in __kernel_vsyscall()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810145
<mlegris> * Â Bug #708286 - Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700R
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/708286
<mlegris> .
<mlegris> Next week will be reserved for Alpha 3 testing, so no report next week
<mlegris> ..
<skaet> Thanks mlegris!
<skaet> bugs have been noted.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Security team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update
<micahg> o/
<skaet> :)
<micahg> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<micahg> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-security.html
<micahg> We are on the trend line for our assigned work items in our blueprints. We are trying to balance reactive security with work items at this time, and are getting to our remaining work items as time allows. We are hopeful several apparmor work items that our team is responsible for will be completed in the coming weeks.
<skaet> ..?
<micahg> I don't really see any bugs worth highlighting for our team
<micahg> I will mention that apparmor might need a freeze exception
<micahg> ..
<skaet> thanks micahg!
<skaet> appreciate the pre-warning about apparmor.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for Oneiric Beta-1 is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> The first stable update from upstream for v3.0.1 has landed.  I plan to rebase our Oneiric kernel and upload today.  This upload will also contain misc bug fixes which we've been queuing.  We are even with our Beta 1 burn down line and are slightly over in our overall burndown.  We'll go through our remaining work items and get them sorted to keep us on track.  From a quick glance, the remaining work items are not release
<ogasawara> critical.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660: looks to be related to EFI boot not loading the video bios into ram.
<ogasawara> #557261: bug reporter has followed up in the upstream bug report regarding the driver warning, still no response yet.  Still not convinced the driver warning is the root cause of the usb-creator persistence issue.  Asked for testing with Alpha 3.
<ogasawara> #754711: on a 3.0 oneiric kernel, system now suspends but doesn't resume.  systemtap debug scripts to help investigate are being worked on for Oneiric, see 815944.
<ogasawara> #758486: updated debug information attached, investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #760131: partly fixed in Oneiric and soon natty, more analysis ongoing upstream.
<ogasawara> #784937: investigation by kernel dev still ongoing as well as discussion with upstream.
<ogasawara> #790712: the order 5 allocation seems to be bogus and non-fatal; further investigation ongoing.
<ogasawara> #791850: kernel dev able to reproduce on a CentOS test system. investigation remains ongoing but at least not blocking on amazon now.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
 * skaet looks around...
<skaet> ok,  moving on
<skaet> [TOPIC] Foundations team update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update
<skaet> slangasek?
<skaet> hmm..
<skaet> anyone from foundations around today?
<skaet> moving on then....
<skaet> [TOPIC] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> short one this week.
<Daviey> There isn't much to report due to the largely successful Alpha  release.  However, looking forward it is expected that the ISO will be somewhat unstable for the next ~2 weeks with the mountain of MIR's begining to land.
<Daviey> The release bugs which are being tracked by us, if there are any missing please let me know ASAP:
<Daviey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~davewalker/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> Next week most of the server team will be attending various sprints, including an LXC and an OpenStack one.  Which means that the global overview might not recieve as much attention as we will be working on specific bugs and feature work.
<Daviey> Questions?
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> Thanks Daviey!
<Daviey> Just one comment..
<Daviey> We might be needing some help from AA's to work through our queue.
<Daviey> And we might require a blanket freeze exception for a few packages we are sharing development cycle of.
<Daviey> That is really EOF now.
 * skaet appreciated the nice low drama A3 from the server team, btw.
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> skaet: It just means there is more fun next milestone :)
<skaet> Daviey,  yup.
 * hggdh shudders, but just a bit
<skaet> when will you have a breakdown of what's going to need FFE?
<Daviey> skaet: Mid next week.
<Daviey> Or at least by release meting next week
<skaet> hmm,  just before FF on Thursday huh...  :/
<skaet> ah well.
<skaet> any other questions for server team?
<Daviey> skaet: Well we won't need FFe before FF :)
 * skaet likes micahg's approach ... ;)
<skaet> [TOPIC] ARM team update - NCommander or ogra_
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - NCommander or ogra_
<ogra_> hey
<skaet> :)
<ogra_> = Full Status is at: =
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Summary =
<ogra_>  - Bootstrapping of armhf in ubuntu has started
<ogra_>  - Live build issues with filesystem resize speed are still being investigated
<ogra_>  - Kernel/bootloader postinst handling for arm is fixed.
<ogra_>  - Cleanup of jasper (our resizing tool) is ongoing
<ogra_>  - AC100 image is in progess
<ogra_>  - mx5 images are in progress
<ogra_>  - new unique tests for server features were implemented during server QA testing
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Image Status =
<ogra_>  - Desktop images built fine
<ogra_>  - Server images build and install fine
<ogra_>  - Netboot images work fine
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> = Specs =
<ogra_>  - Entire http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_>  - B1 http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_>    (the tracker has not been fixed yet for the new LP name of the ubuntu-arm team)
<ogra_> --
<ogra_> thats all :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ !
<skaet> when will the ac100 and mx5 images first show up in the dailies?
<ogra_> i hope latest by mid next week for ac100, cant easily say for mx5 since the developer doing it was lacking hardware until recnetly
 * skaet is starting to worry its getting very close to FF time...
<ogra_> yes :(
<skaet> ok,  will keep fingers crossed.
<skaet> is netboot omap3 figured out?
<ogra_> :) we'll make it, no worries :)
<ogra_> i think NCommander was looking at it, there is a bug on the status wikipage
<ogra_> bug 820621
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820621 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "netinstall fails to make omap system bootable during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820621
<skaet> ogra_, ok,  will ask him about it a bit later then. :)   thanks.
<skaet> any other questions for arm team?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - rsalveti or fabo
 * skaet looks around for fabo or rsalveti ???
<skaet> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  Chipaca or joshuahoover
<skaet> hmm... doesn't look like they're around either.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Team update - kenvandine
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team update - kenvandine
 * kenvandine waves
<skaet> :)
<kenvandine> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<kenvandine> not much to report a3 was quiet for us
<kenvandine> however, we expect lots to land right at FF
<kenvandine> so expect fun next week :)
 * skaet will put out a plea for AA's...
<kenvandine> nothing else to report, questions?
<skaet> any update on when the lightdm fixes will be landing?
<kenvandine> not really, i would expect next week though
<kenvandine> robert has been away
<kenvandine> but will be back from vacation monday, however at desktop summit
<kenvandine> but afaik we aren't concerned about it
<kenvandine> should be ok :)
<skaet> kenvandine, ok.  thanks for setting expectations.   Some of the interactions need to be sorted with the flavours a bit.
<kenvandine> pitti will be back next week, sort of
<skaet> i'll follow up with him and pitti next week.  :)
<skaet> pitti at desktop summit too?
<kenvandine> hackfest after desktop summit
<skaet> ahh...
<skaet> ok
<kenvandine> not sure if he is going to be at the summit too
<skaet> fair enough.   anyone else have questions?
<kenvandine> but he will be online at least
<skaet> :)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth or njpatel
<dbarth> hey
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> usual report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth> not everyone's at the desktop summit
<dbarth> good news: we have a nice unity update, with new lens views, along with the lib update earlier this week
<dbarth> and it's making its way also in unity-2d
<dbarth> bad news: we're badly stuck with compiz
<dbarth> issues with gsettings (just solved 15 min. ago, hoping not to find more later on)
<dbarth> and the stacking issue is still not fixed
<dbarth> we'll be generating new tarballs and test pacakages this week-end, to get some proper testing for next week
<dbarth> and finally on the CJK issue: brandon updated his patch, this should be the right one for an ubuntu upload
<dbarth> (didrocks said he was pleased, so i trust him :)
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> we identified a gap in the ZG FTS extension, but nothing ,ajor
<dbarth> and im/ibus support work started this week
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth!
<skaet> next wednesday for the drop?
<dbarth> yes, that's the plan
<dbarth> be with us on wednesday
<skaet> coolio.   :)
<skaet> any other questions for dbarth ?
<dbarth> but ahem, i'll have an FFE or two as well
<skaet> .....?
<dbarth> missing views in the dash (we're too tight) and a new lens
<dbarth> by views, i mean previews for certain doc. types; the overall structure will be in place
<skaet> ack.   consider expectations set.
<skaet> :)
 * skaet keeping fingers crossed is not too far after FF
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet looks around for ScottK?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage or stgraber
<MootBot> New Topic:  Edubuntu Team update - highvoltage or stgraber
<skaet> [TOPIC] Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
<MootBot> New Topic:  Xubuntu Team update - charlie-tca
 * charlie-tca nods
<skaet> :)
<charlie-tca> Alpha3 was not released for Xubuntu; images worked Monday and failed after that.
<charlie-tca> We are still trying to find the cause
<charlie-tca> * #789333: "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols"
<charlie-tca> I don't know what we will do for this one yet
<charlie-tca> We are trying not to use gtk3 since Xfce 4.8 doesn't need it
<charlie-tca> * #799238: "Xubuntu i386 and amd64 20110618 xserver abort" - resolved with current xorg
<charlie-tca> * #799754: "Please let vendors easily provide their own config"
<charlie-tca> Needs help to get it resolved from Robert Ancell
<charlie-tca> * #820731: "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" - Still trying to find the reason; both Ubuntu and Kubuntu install to the same hardware
<charlie-tca> * #820460: "Encrypted LVM install will not allow login in Xubuntu Alpha3" - Haven't had time to do anything with this yet.
<charlie-tca> The other bugs are blocked by issues with lightdm
<skaet> kenvandine, ^^
<charlie-tca> and, I am sorry, but
<charlie-tca> lightdm has real issues for derivatives. The question right now is whether or not we will be able to use it.
<charlie-tca> Any questions?
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> Thanks charlie-tca!
<kenvandine> skaet, noted
<skaet> charlie-tca, will let you know if I hear further news on lightdm.
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<skaet> any quesitons for charlie-tca?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lubuntu Team update - gilir
<gilir> hi :)
<skaet> :)
<gilir>  First, thanks to all people who make Lubuntu images possible :)
<skaet> +1
<gilir> Alpha 3 is the 1st Lubuntu 0neiric IS0 in shape for testing
<gilir> So far, not so bad, essential items are working (installing, live session ...)
<gilir> Next step is to finish updates of new upstream releases before FF
<gilir> And try to switch back to lightdm by default if the problems reported by other flavors are solved
<gilir> Also, we will probably need some help to setup alternate ISO from daily builds, if they don't magically pop up on cdimages in the next days :)
<gilir> Any questions ?
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir!   and congratulations on getting first Lubuntu images published!
<skaet> we're seeing a bit of space issues on cdimage,  so that might be a factor.
<charlie-tca> +1
<skaet> we should be moving to more disk space next week,  but please let us know on #ubuntu-release if it looks like that may be a factor.
<skaet> for the alternate images.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [TOPIC] Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
<MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - slangasek or doko
 * skaet not sure they're here,  but figured best to check again...
<skaet> MOTU is not able to make it today,  so...
<skaet> [TOPIC] any other business?   last comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business?   last comments/questions?
<micahg> o/
<skaet> go micahg
<micahg> I could give a quick MOTU update
<skaet> please do micahg
<skaet> :)
<micahg> ~440 packages in universe still FTBFS across all archs
<micahg> ~150 packages that haven't been merged from Debian this cycle
<micahg> ~160 requests for new upstream versions of software
<micahg> eclipse will probably need an FFe
<micahg> are links for any of the above interesting?
<skaet> micahg,  yes please.   nice and handy that way.
<micahg> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=upgrade-software-version
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=upgrade-software-version
<micahg> [LINK] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<micahg> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/oneiric.html#universe
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/oneiric.html#universe
<micahg> help from anyone appreciated
 * skaet nods 
<micahg> I would suggest the first focus should be new version merges/updates before Feature freeze
<micahg> ..
<skaet> Thanks micahg!   appreciate you giving the update.  Yes new version merges should be done ASAP.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> looks like its that time.
<skaet> thanks everyone for a good meeting!
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, skaet
<skaet> Thank you micahg, pgraner, mlegris, ogasawara,  Daviey, kenvandine, dbarth,  ogra_ charlie-tca, gilir!
<micahg> thanks skaet
<kenvandine> thx!
<charlie-tca> gilir: congrats on alpha3!
<gilir> thanks charlie-tca :)
<ScottK> Sorry.  Didn't think there would be a meeting today.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-07
<astraljava> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is astraljava.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<astraljava> Hi guys, who's with me?
<scott-upstairs> present
<astraljava> Let's give it a minute, for others to join (if any)
<astraljava> Meanwhile, whoever's here can take one last look at the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011August7
<ailo> I'm here
<scott-upstairs> heh, not much on the agenda
<astraljava> No, not really. Alright, we're on.
<astraljava> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<astraljava> We have on our plates the move to have Xubuntu as the foundation.
<ailo> How's that coming along? I haven't tried installing yet.
<astraljava> We've been working on the desktop seed to accommodate a working desktop, but that still retains the workflow.
<astraljava> It's not working, as the updated seed isn't there to spin the disk on.
<scott-upstairs> i haven't asked luke to push the changes since we made the additional changes, astraljava
<astraljava> I've been asking feedback on the changes.
<astraljava> But haven't gotten much.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Are we ready to go with that, then?
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i think so, i just haven't bugged luke about it
<astraljava> Okay, well I'll do that after the meeting, if it's alright with everybody?
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, it's good with me
<astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava  to ask Luke to update seeds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava  to ask Luke to update seeds
<astraljava> Another thing is testing documentation. It's on me too, but I haven't had time for that. I'll get on it during the beginning week, though.
<astraljava> I'm participating in Xubuntu testing, so I have experience and access to their docs and workflows.
<astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to work on testing documentation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to work on testing documentation
<astraljava> Ok, what else is old?
<ailo> UbuntuStudio Documentation, US-controls..
<ailo> Testing script
<astraljava> Right, let's just with plain documentation. How's that going, and is anyone responsible for it in the first place?
<ailo> Those were some things I was supposed to work on, but not much has happened. Though, I'm sure we can at least have a good solid, though simple documentation ready for the release
<astraljava> ailo: Can you still be tasked with those? I can take the script as it kinda goes with the other testing-related issues.
<astraljava> And it doesn't mean you have to do everything by yourself. It's just good to have someone driving the issue.
<scott-upstairs> i had committed to helping with documentation as well
<ailo> I will definitely want to finish the documentation together with ScottL
<scott-upstairs> but before we begin the documentation proper we still  needed to come to an understanding about direction
<astraljava> Okay, so can we discuss that right now? We've only got 2 months till the release.
<astraljava> [ACTION] ailo and astraljava to work on the testing script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ailo and astraljava to work on the testing script
<scott-upstairs> i want to caution us from being too ambitious
<ailo> I have some good ideas on the documentation, that are very sketchy at the moment
<scott-upstairs> i mean in terms of quantity of tasks, i think we have historically taken on too many different tasks and accomplished very little
<astraljava> I agree with Scott, we should have like a minimal set that needs to be done prior the release. Documentation is an on-going business, as a whole.
<ailo> So, we do one thing at the time?
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Oh, you meant the whole thing? Well, yes. We sadly don't have that many contributors at the moment.
<scott-upstairs> no, no
<scott-upstairs> i meant that individually we tend to overburden ourselves
<scott-upstairs> i have 8 things i'm doing right now supposedly and completing none
<astraljava> I think we're all there. :)
<astraljava> But let's see; testing documentation (possibly including the script), general docs, -controls.
<astraljava> That's not too much, on top of the migration to Xubuntu as the base.
<scott-upstairs> i would think that if ailo and i can agree on a framework for documentation then i can start on it,
<ailo> Since I've been so late in starting developing us-controls, I don't think it will be an easy task to complete it for this release.
<scott-upstairs> while he moves onto the -controls
<scott-upstairs> heh, nevermind ;)
<astraljava> ailo: Ok, we can take that out, then.
<ailo> btw, do we have a deadline for it, when it needs to be finished?
<scott-upstairs> the documentation?
<scott-upstairs> or -controls
<ailo> yea, -controls
<astraljava> ailo: Basically, next week. That's when the feature freeze kicks in. We could get an exception, but really, we can just push it a release.
<scott-upstairs> not really, the package has been removed form the seeds i beleive
<ailo> So, no exeption?
<ailo> I think it's not realistic to have it finished by the time for Oneiric
<astraljava> Might be best not to. There's gonna be enough work on the seeds as it is.
<scott-upstairs> i would rather not rush it
<scott-upstairs> let's do it right and test it well
<astraljava> Good, reached consensus, then.
<astraljava> [ACTION] Move -controls to the next release
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Move -controls to the next release
<scott-upstairs> for the xfce transition, we really still need to do some good testing of the daily image
<scott-upstairs> i fear there were other issues that was causing the image to be uninstallable
<scott-upstairs> i had troubles
<astraljava> Absolutely. I will get that underway starting tomorrow.
<scott-upstairs> rlamerio had troubles as well
<astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to look into cdimage issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to look into cdimage issues
<astraljava> If you have some logs from the failed installations, please send them to me.
<astraljava> I'll document this on the testing docs, though.
<astraljava> So you don't have to guess which ones etc.
<scott-upstairs> i do not have them anymore
<astraljava> That's okay, but from now on.
<scott-upstairs> by the way, getting logs from an installation would be a good page for the documentation
<astraljava> Yep, that's what I was trying to refer to, just above. :)
<astraljava> Okay, so still about the general docs, are we going through that now, or will you discuss it outside the meeting?
<ailo> I think it's better I present what I have done outside of the meeting, and we work on that
<astraljava> Is this ok with scott-upstairs ?
<scott-upstairs> i have a generalized list of how i thought the documentaton should go
<ailo> I have used ScottL's work as reference as well
<scott-upstairs> hold on...
<scott-upstairs> here is a link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, ^^^
 * astraljava looks
<astraljava> IMHO, that's got a really good structure.
<ailo> It's pretty much the same as what I have been doing
<scott-upstairs> my thought was that once we had the basic structure then we could each turn loose on make the pages
<scott-upstairs> we could pick the ones we wanted or organize which to do
<ailo> The introduction part seems like your bit, scott-upstairs
<astraljava> Sounds good to me. Hopefully, we'll get others to join in as well.
<ailo> I may have some opinions on the structure as a whole
<scott-upstairs> ailo, certainly
<ailo> holstein was interested in helping out
<ailo> I would say his area of expertise is using it for audio tasks
<ailo> Using US, that is
<astraljava> True, we'd need more of those anyway.
<scott-upstairs> i'm not sure holstein will want to be involved in the structure too much, but i think he will add pages
<astraljava> Yeah, it's better to chop it to pieces that other people can handle, and you guys keep the reins on the whole.
<astraljava> Okay, well, you two work on the structure more outside the meeting, then.
<astraljava> Can we move on, now?
<astraljava> [ACTION] ailo and scott-upstairs to work on the documentation structure
<scott-upstairs> sure :)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ailo and scott-upstairs to work on the documentation structure
<astraljava> Is there any other old business, still?
<astraljava> I suppose not.
<astraljava> [TOPIC] Updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Updates
<astraljava> Did we release Alpha-3 at all?
<astraljava> I'm sorry to say this one slipped past me, unfortunately.
<scott-upstairs> yes, sort of
<scott-upstairs> i talked to skaet about not releasing it official, i.e. not publishing it on the QA website, but i think it happened anyways
<scott-upstairs> i was too late i think
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> Well, we'll have to work much harder for beta, cause it's a bit sad that people interested in the devel release cannot depend on us now.
<astraljava> Beta is 3 weeks in, so we've got some time, fortunately.
<astraljava> So, if possible, please do download dailies, and try to test them.
<astraljava> In the coming testing documents, I'll try to arrange something centralized so that we can track the progress.
<scott-upstairs> i'm disappointed that we don't have more help doing this
 * astraljava is too
<scott-upstairs> i wonder if our user's are just not motiviated to help
<astraljava> We're in a bad state at the moment.
<scott-upstairs> or is it something we can do better
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i agree
<scott-upstairs> it was pretty bad when i got involved and i wonder if this just isn't a band aid
<astraljava> I would imagine, come a decent release with Xubuntu as the base, we could gain more popularity and newly-found respect, though.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: I think there are just coincidences, people getting other commitments and such.
<astraljava> If we can just work a little harder, who we have now, and manage to build a solid release, I'm fairly confident there will be new contributors too.
<astraljava> Plus, the new bond with the Xubuntu devel people, will help us in a way.
<astraljava> I think it's easier to get in touch with them, as it was with the vanilla devel people.
<astraljava> But that could be just a misunderstanding.
<astraljava> I wasn't too involved with the foundations before the switch.
<astraljava> Okay, are there other updates?
<astraljava> Oh, we got mudita24 since the last meeting.
<astraljava> Must check it gets to the updated seeds.
<astraljava> Okay, moving on.
<astraljava> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<astraljava> Your chance to voice anything that's bugging your mind.
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, you might then update the seeds to include mudita24 before talking to luke
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Yes, I'll do that.
<astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to update the sound seed to include mudita24
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to update the sound seed to include mudita24
<scott-upstairs> right, i've got something to say
<scott-upstairs> i'm at a point where i'm feeling overwhelmed, this isn't fun anymore, and i don't feel like i'm effective
<scott-upstairs> i committed to staying until the end of this cycle, but i don't know what will happen after that
<scott-upstairs> a variety of things could happen, i could step down as lead but still help on a limited scale
<scott-upstairs> it's possible that i need to take a break completely away for a cycle or two
<scott-upstairs> i don't know
<astraljava> Understandable. You've had your fair share of awesomeness, and I'm sure it's quite tiring.
<astraljava> Do you think you will reach a decision by October's meeting?
<ailo> Who could be able to fill scott-upstairs shoes?
<astraljava> ailo: Not many, but someone's gotta try.
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, i don't know, but my feeling currently is that i need to step down but commit to a subset of tasks
<scott-upstairs> like testing and documentation
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Well, we're gonna have to discuss that on October's meeting anyway, as the new cycle begins not after that anyhow.
<astraljava> Don't take it the wrong way, though. I'm not putting any pressure on you.
<astraljava> But I will totally support you in your decision, and if no-one else shows up, will volunteer for the position, if accepted.
<scott-upstairs> ack
<astraljava> You've done a terrific job, I must say.
<scott-upstairs> heh, thank you
<astraljava> It's just unfortunate the time was so challenging.
<ailo> I agree
<astraljava> It must have burnt you sooner than expected.
<ailo> Maybe scott-upstairs has a good point in that the tasks for US should be minimized
<scott-upstairs> that may be very true
<scott-upstairs> ailo, i think that is very large issue
<astraljava> Okay, well, we'll discuss the leadership issue in October's meeting the latest.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Feel free to add it on September's agenda, if you reach a decision sooner than that.
<astraljava> Is there still any other business?
<astraljava> Right, moving on, then.
<astraljava> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Time/Location
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Time/Location
<astraljava> As per the procedure, we'll gather together again the first Sunday of the new month.
<astraljava> That makes it the 4th of September.
<scott-upstairs> sounds good
<astraljava> It's already in the calendar.
<astraljava> [LINK] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
<astraljava> 1700 UTC is good for everybody?
<ailo> Yep
<astraljava> Scott?
<scott-upstairs> sure
<astraljava> Great, so the next meeting is on 4th of Sept., 1700 UTC, @ #ubuntu-meeting.
<astraljava> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair
<astraljava> It's a good idea to keep rotating the chair.
<astraljava> But, given we're a very limited bunch at the moment, are there volunteers for this?
<ailo> Nope ;)
<astraljava> holstein has done it previously, as well as Scott, but are there other takers?
<astraljava> ailo: Noted. :)
<astraljava> Okay, well, I can do it again the next time, and holstein can take it over if he feels like it.
<scott-upstairs> sorry guys but i need to go...talk to you later
<astraljava> [ACTION] astraljava to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to chair next meeting
<astraljava> Right, I guess that concludes our meeting for tonight.
<astraljava> Thanks for the participants for keeping Ubuntu Studio afloat! :)
<astraljava> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-30
<bdrung> !dmb-ping: meeting in ten minutes
<ubottu> bdrung: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in ten minutes
 * barry pongs
<cody-somerville> Sorry, won't be able to make today's meeting
<barry> cody-somerville: np.  i think we'll have quorum anyway, if bdrung isn't a bot too :)
<tumbleweed> hi
<bdrung> barry: my circuits can't answer this question ;)
<barry> oh noes, i've shorted out the bdrungbot
<barry> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 30 14:00:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is barry. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<micahg> barry: starting a minute early? :)
<barry> hello and welcome to this week's developer membership board meeting.  do we have quorum?
<tumbleweed> micahg: your clock is off
<barry> micahg: it's all relative :)
<barry> micahg: is in a gravitational well
 * micahg fires up the warp engines
<barry> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
 * stgraber waves
 * bdrung waves mechanically.
<barry> shall we wait a minute or two to see if Laney shows up?
<Laney> soryr
<Laney> i am here
<Laney> just twiddling a bug, one sec
<barry> yay!  welcome everyone
<barry> #topic review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: review of previous action items
<barry> micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<barry>  
 * micahg hides
<barry> continued then :)
<bdrung> micahg: should we dig out the last meeting logs? ;)
<barry> micahg to start a discussion on dmb@ about whether PPU should confer membership
<micahg> bdrung: no :)
<barry> i think that one's done, right?
<micahg> barry: that was done already
<barry> as was this one: get consensus whether upload rights should confer membership
<barry> ?
<bdrung> did we got to a consensus?
<micahg> no, beuno was supposed to start that discussion
<ScottK> Isn't that backwards?
<barry> micahg: does he know that?  i did a quick review of my thread on that to the dmb list and see nothing about beuno
<ScottK> Membership has certain requirements and the question is if you can get upload rights if you don't meet those.
<micahg> barry: I think that was part of the CC discussion we had about 3.5 weeks ago
<barry> micahg: k.  so i should continue this item.  should i put bueno's name next to it?
<tumbleweed> and one of us should take an action to prod him
<micahg> barry: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/07/16/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:11
<bdrung> shouldn't we come to a proposed change to discuss with the CC?
<Laney> ScottK: backwards how?
<ScottK> How can giving upload rights confer membership?
<ScottK> Membership has certain requirements and either you meet them or you don't.
<barry> micahg: will you mind pinging him about it?
<ScottK> The question is can you have upload rights if you aren't a member/don't meet requirements.
<tumbleweed> membership of the ubuntu-dev LP group gives indirect membership of the ubuntu-members group
<ScottK> Which is a bug.
<micahg> barry: I suppose
<Laney> that's what we're cosnidering.
<ScottK> CC owns membership requirements, not DMB.
<barry> micahg: thanks
<micahg> scottK: depends who you ask :), that's the issue, we didn't come to a consensus before
<Laney> and why we're asking a CC member to start this thread ...
<tumbleweed> ScottK: which is why we took it to them
<ScottK> Ah.
 * barry will change the action item to just the ping; and we'll let beuno and the cc take it from there
<tumbleweed> but in the past, we've kind of waived the "significant and sustained contributions" bit of the membership requirements, for some PPU applications
<tumbleweed> anyway, probably best not to have this discussion here and now :)
<ScottK> OK.
<barry> #topic Review any packageset descriptions that have been received (micahg)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review any packageset descriptions that have been received (micahg)
<micahg> barry: carried, I'll try to get that rolling by the end of next month
<barry> micahg: thanks
<barry> #topic package sets
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: package sets
<barry> anything new there?
 * barry thinks not
<micahg> no, no one applying
<bdrung> no, that's why it hasn't any subpoints
<barry> tumbleweed reminds me of one other action item not on the wiki page:
<barry> extra action item review item: Any progress on the ubuntu developers woh haven't signed the CoC?
<micahg> well, we get an update weekly now, but haven't yet contacted the members in question
<tumbleweed> sounds like the answer there is action: micahg
<barry> yep.  micahg let us know if you want to off load some of that
<barry> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PerPackageUploader Applications
<micahg> ok
<barry> matttbe ping
 * matttbe waves
<matttbe> Hello evryone!
<barry> matttbe: welcome.  you're applying for ppu in cairo-dock cairo-doc-plug-ins and latexila, right?  can you tell us something about yourself?
<matttbe> yes. sure!
<barry> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/matttbe/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<matttbe> Firstly, I want to apology for my "not so good" English, I hope it's readable ;)
<bdrung> matttbe: it was.
<matttbe> So... I'm Matthieu Baerts, student at UCL (in Belgium -- and no, sorry but I can't send you any Belgian beers, you'll have to come here for the next FOSDEM meeting :P ).
<tumbleweed> awww
<matttbe> I'm also a member of the Cairo-Dock team and other projects which support Free Software
<matttbe> (I'm a member of a LUG (LouviLug) and I joined the Louvain-li-Nux association which promotes Free Software through Ubuntu's installations, weekly supports to the community and event's organizations 2 years ago).
<matttbe> I've been working on Cairo-Dock packages since September 2009 and on LaTeXila packages since March 2011.
<matttbe> I want to apply for upload rights for Cairo-Dock and LaTeXila packages because I *think* I'm starting to "annoy" my sponsors with these 'simple' releases :) (and mainly because Andrew Starr-Bochicchio told me that it was maybe a good idea to have these rights to upload directly these packages in order to not lose time)
<matttbe> I think that's it :) But feel free to ask me for other things :)
<barry> matttbe: is there a cairo ppa and have you done any uploads to it?
<bdrung> matttbe: you are involved with the upstream projects and i saw that new package version closes bunches of Launchpad bugs. do you collaborate with our direct upstream Debian?
<Laney> There's some disagreement / difference with Debian that was supposed to get resolved IIRC
<matttbe> sure!
<matttbe> I'm a member of cairo-dock-team and I maintain these ppa: https://launchpad.net/~cairo-dock-team/+archive/ppa and https://launchpad.net/~cairo-dock-team/+archive/weekly
<barry> s/cairo/cairo-dock/
<matttbe> + repos for Debian on http://download.tuxfamily.org/glxdock/repository/
<matttbe> In fact, we have some troubles with our Debian maintainers :-/
<matttbe> We already report bugs to them but it's hard to change things
<matttbe> (as you can see there: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plugins/+bug/657564 )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657564 in cairo-dock-plugins (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Duplicated package with cairo-dock-plugins (coming from Debian)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<matttbe> They decided to split all our plugins but it's hard to maintain that (there are a few dependences), they also add useless dependences and made 1 or 2 wrong patches but now it's a bit better ;)
<bdrung> matttbe: have you tried to join the Debian Cairo-dock Maintainers team and do your packaging work in their git repositories?
<matttbe> yes, I did it but they don't want to have the same packages than what we have in Ubuntu
<bdrung> matttbe: is there no way to come to a consensus?
<micahg> matttbe: as long as they add the appropriate interdependencies and have a meta package to install all the plugins, what's the issue?
<matttbe> I know that it's an annoying problem but with other members of Cairo-Dock team, we already tried. This is now better and I think we can say that there is no way to come to a consensus about these dependences
<micahg> matttbe: can you give an example of a "useless dependency"?
<matttbe> micahg: yes, now they have a meta package but no appropriate interdependencies (and if you install Cairo-Dock on Debian, it will install thunar-data, kde stuff, etc. which are just useless if you're using Gnome)
<tumbleweed> have bugs been filed in debian about this?
<matttbe> (cairo-dock package depends of cairo-dock-plugins meta package which depends of cairo-dock-xfce-integration-plug-in package which install thunar dependences)
<matttbe> tumbleweed: yes of course
<matttbe> tumbleweed:  on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plugins/+bug/657564 and there I think: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=493736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657564 in cairo-dock-plugins (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Duplicated package with cairo-dock-plugins (coming from Debian)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bdrung> matttbe: i can't see an open bug report for that in the BTS
<ubottu> Debian bug 493736 in wnpp "ITP: cairo-dock -- An light eye-candy fully themable animated dock for any Linux desktop" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<micahg> matttbe: actually, it seems the meta package isn't pulled in by the -plugins package
<matttbe> (and also on our forums)
<micahg> the integration meta I mean
<matttbe> maybe I should re-open a new bug report...
<micahg> matttbe: I think the issue has been solved
<matttbe> micahg: oh, maybe, good news :)
<barry> do we have any other questions for matttbe?
<micahg> matttbe: have you considered levering the backports pocket to provide stable updates?
<micahg> *leveraging
<matttbe> micahg: except that now, it doesn't install any -integration plug-ins (for a better integration in Gnome, XFCE, KDE and other DE which use gvfs) :)
<micahg> matttbe: right, you could suggest an alternate Recommends with a sane default maybe
<matttbe> micahg: I don't understand your question, sorry. Did you mean that it can be good to backport stable update?
<micahg> matttbe: yes, backports is enabled by default since oneiric
<micahg> matttbe: you might want to look at the requestbackport tool in ubuntu-dev-tools in precise and later
<matttbe> micahg: ok, thank you. I'll have a look to this tool
<bdrung> matttbe: i recommend to look at the wrap-and-sort tool (in devscripts and ubuntu-dev-tools previously)
<matttbe> bdrung: oh, nice tool (as many other but there are a lot of tools like that :) )
<matttbe> thank you
<bdrung> matttbe: i saw that indicator-applet 0.5.0-0ubuntu2 failed to build (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/0.5.0-0ubuntu2). how could that happen and what are you doing to prevent this to happen in the future?
<matttbe> bdrung: Yes, I thought that it was enough to only test the modification in the apport hook :)
<matttbe> But next time, I'll build the new version with pbuilder
<matttbe> bdrung: but I fixed the bug in the next version and report the problem to indicator-applet devs
<bdrung> matttbe: better be save than sorry. the build failure was introduced by a glib change and not by you. that's why test building should be always done before uploading.
<stgraber> matttbe: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce@lists.ubuntu.com and read it at least daily?
<matttbe> stgraber: I'm subscribed recently :)
<matttbe> (stgraber: I'll read it at least daily but currently I only received maximum one or two messages)
<stgraber> yeah, it's very low trafic but very important messages
<stgraber> so should be read pretty quickly after something new is posted to it (like the freeze announcements)
<bdrung> matttbe: it's good to check that before doing an upload (e.g. for freeze notifications)
<matttbe> bdrung: ok, I'll do that. (and I've also bookmarked this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule )
<barry> #voters barry bdrung Laney micahg tumbleweed stgraber cody-somerville
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung cody-somerville micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<barry> #vote grant matttbe ppu rights to cairo-dock cairo-dock-plug-ins latexila
<meetingology> Please vote on: grant matttbe ppu rights to cairo-dock cairo-dock-plug-ins latexila
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> +1 [ and I'd like to see these packages eventually get in sync with debian ]
<bdrung> +1 please work with the Debian maintainers to reduce the diff between Debian and Ubuntu
<meetingology> +1 [ and I'd like to see these packages eventually get in sync with debian ] received from tumbleweed
<meetingology> +1 please work with the Debian maintainers to reduce the diff between Debian and Ubuntu received from bdrung
<barry> +1 i would also like to see you work toward an eventual sync w/debian
<meetingology> +1 i would also like to see you work toward an eventual sync w/debian received from barry
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> +0 good work overall, would like to see more integration with Debian (it seems all the issues have been addressed)
<meetingology> +0 good work overall, would like to see more integration with Debian (it seems all the issues have been addressed) received from micahg
<Laney> +0 sorry have been distracted
<meetingology> +0 sorry have been distracted received from Laney
<matttbe> tumbleweed, bdrung, barry: yes, you're right. I'll re-contact Cairo-Dock Debian team!
<micahg> err...+1
<matttbe> (BTW I see that I'm still a member of this team ^^ https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-cairo-dock/ )
<bdrung> matttbe: i recommend to work with them in their git repository and merge the Ubuntu changes step by step (starting with the easy bits)
<matttbe> bdrung: ok, I'll try to do that!
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<barry> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: grant matttbe ppu rights to cairo-dock cairo-dock-plug-ins latexila
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<barry> matttbe: congratulations!
<bdrung> matttbe: in most cases it is a pleasant experience to work with Debian Developers
<matttbe> Thanks all!
<matttbe> bdrung: yes, sure I also want to have "better" packages in Debian but... I'll try :)
<matttbe> Also I've two tiny questions: about Ubuntu Membership and the previous discussions, should I do something more to have this membership?
<barry> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<tumbleweed> you'll get automatic membership, as things stand ATM
<matttbe> tumbleweed: ok, thank you :)
<barry> tumbleweed: welcome! you are applying to ubuntu core developer.  do you want to introduce yourself? :)
<micahg> matttbe: try to keep in mind, it might be possible to satisfy your wants/needs as well of those of the other Debian packagers
<tumbleweed> barry: sure. I'll try and be quick, and we're already out of time
<barry> thanks
<tumbleweed> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanoRivera/CoreDevApplication
<tumbleweed> meh, meetingology doesn't like me
<tumbleweed> anyway
<tumbleweed> you had better all know me, I serve on this board :)
 * barry thinks #links aren't working
<tumbleweed> so, I mostly do universe stuff, but occasionally touch something that's in main
<tumbleweed> I don't have many endorsements, because I've had no regular sponsors. The 2/3 of the bulk sponsors endorsed me
<tumbleweed> the other sponsors all only sponsored one upload
<tumbleweed> but back to core-dev: I'd appreciate not having to go through the sponsorship process to touch main packages
<tumbleweed> I haven't had significant feedback from a sponsor in ages, and don't think I'm benefiting from not having direct upload rights
<tumbleweed> ..
<Laney> \o
<Laney> Can we learn anything from the Debian release team on how to run freezes?
<tumbleweed> lol
<Laney> re your first point of hate
<Laney> :-)
<bkerensa> :s
<tumbleweed> I think there are pople in debian who ignore the release team and upload big things to unstable, without coordination
<tumbleweed> so, that point of hate probably applies there, too
<Laney> For example they are almost completely opposed to us on their opinion of new packages; who's right there?
<tumbleweed> I think they have a far higher workload than we do
<tumbleweed> tehy review every diff, and prod maintainers with RC bugs continuously
<tumbleweed> whereas we trust our developers to only fix bugs after FF
<tumbleweed> I think our approach makes far more sense for our tight release cycle
<bdrung> where there abuses of this trust?
<tumbleweed> sure, there always are a few. but that's actually not a problem
<tumbleweed> as long as everything doesn't blow up, it worked, right?
<bdrung> the impact of the abuses are small enough to warrant a lightweight process?
<tumbleweed> yeah, exactly
<tumbleweed> we have a continuous stream of people coming and asking "what's the latest they can get their new shiny thing into the release" and the only sane answer is "it gets harder. try and do it before FF, but if you can't it's not the end of the world"
<tumbleweed> new packages have a very hard time breaking everything
<micahg> well, with backports on by default, that issue is less pressing
<tumbleweed> sure, although I beleive we have yet to test that process
<bdrung> is backport working well nowadays?
 * tumbleweed isn't on the backports team, but from what I see, yes. Aside from our sbuild being ancient and not letting things B-D on backports
<micahg> I think it's working much better than in the past, we're mainly blocked on human reviews, but I don't think they're excessive
<bdrung> then i should try it again.
<micahg> I think we're getting a lot more backport requests for precise which is good news
<Laney> well, it's the best time for it
<Laney> we've constructed the system to make it become increasingly painful as releases go on
<tumbleweed> yes, but (re FFes) people still turn up very late in the cycle with things that *have to* go in
<tumbleweed> some of them being common sense, but big diffs
<micahg> yes, but the case of the FFes, people usually only want for that release, so backporting from the next dev release isn't much of an issue
<barry> there's nothing like a freeze or rc to motivate people to finish their work <wink>
<tumbleweed> and others a dependancy of the latest greatest thing that someone really wants in the release
<tumbleweed> micahg: if you have to put a whole stack of important-stuff in backports because it didn't make FF, that will probably mean less users
<tumbleweed> the big thing in the last cycle was MAAS, I don't think that could have happily ended up in backports, rather than release
<tumbleweed> but I also wasn't involved in approving that :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: does core-dev to you just mean being able to upload everywhere in the main archive?
<tumbleweed> micahg: well, technically, of course it does
<tumbleweed> but there are packages I wouldn't touch without very good reason to
<ScottK> tumbleweed: It's not clear it was ready to be in the archive at all (at least technically)
<tumbleweed> many of the core packages have someone that mostly looks after them. I'd coordinate with taht person, if at all possible
<tumbleweed> (someone or some team)
<tumbleweed> and I don't expect being a core-dev to make a major difference to what I work on, but it would allow me to scratch a few itches a little more easily
<tumbleweed> ScottK: which wouldn't be unsuprising for something arriving at the last minute
<tumbleweed> *suprising, even
<micahg> tumbleweed: yes, but what about the non-technical side of core-dev :)
<micahg> ah, you answered it
<tumbleweed> not entirely
<tumbleweed> non-technically, it also honours one as being someone who feels responsible for the entire archive, and takes a leading role in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> I'd like to think that I do both of those things, even if it's a leading role in one corner of Ubuntu :)
<barry> tumbleweed: ubuntu is a big room with lots of corners that need sweeping :)
<barry> #vote grant tumbleweed ubuntu core dev membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: grant tumbleweed ubuntu core dev membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<tumbleweed> \o/
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Congratulations.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: thanks
<Laney> \o/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: congrats
<barry> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: grant tumbleweed ubuntu core dev membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<barry> tumbleweed: congratulations!
<stgraber> didn't we miss micahg?
<micahg> oh, sorry, got distracted, +1000 :)
<tumbleweed> heh
<barry> oh whoops.
<stgraber> good ;)
<stgraber> tumbleweed: congrats!
<tumbleweed> thanks everyone
<barry> #topic next meeting chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next meeting chair
<barry> bdrung is up next i believe
<bdrung> barry: nope. i was last time.
<barry> ah, then cody-somerville ?
<bdrung> yes
<barry> cool.
<bdrung> he can't veto ;)
<barry> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 30 15:28:38 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-30-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-30-14.00.html
<matttbe> (sorry, I was too slow to write my second question. Where can I ask this question?)
<matttbe> Do you think that I can join Ubuntu Contributing Developers team? It's mainly to show to other Ubuntu devs that it's not my first package but I'm (still) not a MOTU so please have a look ;)
<matttbe> (I saw that I should have demonstrated 'significant and sustained' contributions in the area of UbuntuDevelopment, but I don't know what that means :) )
<barry> thanks everyone!
<tumbleweed> matttbe: I'd think so, yes
<tumbleweed> matttbe: however, most of the point of becoming a contributing developer is to get membrship through packaging
<tumbleweed> which you've just got with your PPU rights
<matttbe> tumbleweed: oh ok. Thank you for these details :)
<tumbleweed> joining contributing developers wouldn't grant you anything at all. It'd just be an LP team tha you are part of
<matttbe> ok
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand>  \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 30 18:03:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to bdrung for his help on security updates for the community supported vlc last week. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> actually, don't have any of those
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've got to finish up community work from last week
<jdstrand> I've also been working almost exclusively on MIR audits
<jdstrand> I have a couple/few left, but it is slow going cause I need a functional openstack and that has proved elusive on quantal
<jdstrand> I should also get started on the hiring process for our open generalist position
<jdstrand> once my audits are done, I hope to dig into my webkit maintenance investigation
<jdstrand> and get back to my pending updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> whoops, sorry
<mdeslaur> I'm working on nss updates
<mdeslaur> and will pick something else from the list
<mdeslaur> I'm also on triage this week
<mdeslaur> that,s about it. sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I've got two embargoed issues on my plate
<sbeattie> I've also got a openstack issue that I need to test.
<sbeattie> Once I've cleared those, I'm planning to get back to the apparmor dbus stuff.
<sbeattie> I may also pick up another one from the list.
<sbeattie> That's it from me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're up
<micahg> still working on webkit, will be taking back Mozilla pretesting from tyhicks, precise should be promoted to -updates/-security this week barring any issues (I haven't heard anyone scream yet)
<micahg> I guess that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm handling community this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently working on some upstream auditd patches to disable network listening support. They should go out to the list today.
<jdstrand> micahg: what about the other releases? istr you saying those were going to hit this week
<micahg> jdstrand: yeah, hoping to drop oneiric and natty into proposed this week, going a little slower than I'd hoped
<jdstrand> micahg: but you've got a handle on it?
<micahg> jdstrand: yeah
<jdstrand> ok cool
<jdstrand> tyhicks: did you manage to talk to upstream auditd about the network stuff?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: No, but it is straight forward so I'd like to start the conversation with the patch set
<jdstrand> I see
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> sorry for the interruption
<tyhicks> jdstrand: There are a few existing examples of other features (such as GSSAPI) that get flicked on and off at build time. I followed them.
<tyhicks> I have an eCryptfs pull request that I need to prepare and send to Linus. Shouldn't take long, just need to get to it.
<tyhicks> Then my focus will be on updates
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I have some dbus patch fixes to finish up so sbeattie can finish getting a ppa together.
<jjohansen> Hopefully I'll get some patch review feedback this week that I can roll in to the current patchset, and I have the locking update to finish off
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose it will be back to the stacking work after that
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<sbeattie> jjohansen: yeah, sorry, I'm trying to get to reviewing those patches as well.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jjohansen> sbeattie: heh I know :)
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bcfg2.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ax25-tools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mysql-gui-tools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libpar-perl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gksu-polkit.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 30 18:25:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-30-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-30-18.03.html
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> np
<uros1> Any member of council present, need some help here
<soren> Which council?
<uros1> LoCo
<uros1> About ReApproval issue
<pleia2> might be best to email loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com
<uros1> ok tnx
<bkerensa> uros1: or try #ubuntu-locoteams :D
<czajkowski> uros1: I'm about if I can help
<czajkowski> pm me if needed
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-07-31
<smartboyhw> hi
<smartboyhw> For the "n"th time, please join the Ubuntu QA Meeting on #ubuntu-meeting at 1400UTC tmr.
<smartboyhw> Chair will be me
<smoser> o/
<zul> hi ho
<Daviey> hola
<Daviey> jamespage!
<jamespage> o/
<Ursinha> o/
<jamespage> please tell me I'm not chair today
<zul> i was chair last week
<arosales> Hello
<Daviey> raise your hand in the air, if you failed to update the wiki.. "NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2012-07-17 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting "
<Daviey> twice!
 * utlemming is guilty
<zul> i changed my name....so im at fault for at lest once
<Daviey> jamespage: it looks like you are up, can you deal?
<jamespage> meh - yeah
<jamespage> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 31 16:03:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jamespage> although I think someone read the list the wrong way round - I did it in the last two weeks I think
 * jamespage kills some stuff to make his machine respond
<Daviey> jamespage: zul is next week :)
<zul> hah funny
<zul> im the furthest way to host a meeting :)
<Daviey> zul: no you aren't :/
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> arosales and daviey to work on trend line reset
<jamespage> hows that going guys?
<Daviey> longest defer of an item yet.
<arosales> jamespage: that is in progress
<jamespage> everyone update their blueprint status
<arosales> I am working with skaet to get that updated
<Daviey> superb
 * jamespage pokes everyone
<Ursinha> roger that
<jamespage> its a good time to replan outstanding work items for the next few milestones....
<arosales> +1
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> then arosales and Daviey can panic about whats not going to get done :-)
<jamespage> anyway
<jamespage> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<jamespage> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> jamespage: How do things look?
<jamespage> couple of quantum bugs still outstanding - bug 1025203 and bug 1023066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025203 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Trying to overwrite '/etc/quantum/plugins/openvswitch/ovs_quantum_plugin.ini', which is also in package quantum-server" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023066 in quantum (Ubuntu) "python-quantum fails to install due to python syntax errors" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023066
<jamespage> might point to the new openstack core components not being exercised fully in the lab yet
<Daviey> I haven't been adding a significant amount of items in the last week.
<Daviey> Has anyone taken the gauntlet of seeing if there are additional things?
<jamespage> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<Daviey> The silence is pretty loud.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> jamespage: I have a few to bring up
<arosales> We are at week 14 of 25 (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule) and cresting the half-way point of the release.
<arosales> Thus, Blueprints on average should be around the 50% marker. Flagging those blueprints <= 20%
<jamespage> sorry this link - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
 * jamespage hands over to arosales
<arosales> rbasak: a couple of ARM blueprints need some love
<Daviey> erm
<arosales> 7% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-benchmark-and-performance
<arosales> 0% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-server-storage-testing
<Daviey> ubuntu-server.html is no good.
<arosales> Daviey:  did you have a comment?
<Daviey> we've achieved 0% on community-q-irc-workshops, according to that
<arosales> Daviey: I am also working skaet to get a overall topic for blueprints for Ubuntu server tracking
<Daviey> community-q-unity-docs :(
<Daviey> ok, super!
<arosales> so hopefully that will help the reporting in the future
<arosales> rbasak: I know you are just back in this week, but can you follow up with the arm blueprints?
<arosales> 0% utlemming https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-images
<rbasak> arosales: no problem, following up now
<arosales> rbasak: thanks
<arosales> Ursinha: I think this one is just pending reports which I think you may be working on: 20% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<arosales> jamespage:  ISO test reviews: 17% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review
<Ursinha> arosales, yes, I need to update my blueprints accordingly, will do that now
<arosales> Ursinha: thanks
<jamespage> arosales, most of the blueprint is targetted to beta-1 so not worried
<arosales> jamespage: ok
<arosales> Some Juju items in progress, a few under 20%
<arosales> 10% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> 19% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices
<arosales> Spamaps ^ for the logs as I think jimbaker and m_3 are out
<arosales> 14% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-libvirt
<arosales> don't see hallyn here though
<arosales> 14% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-ha
<arosales> roaksoax: ^
<arosales> rbasak: are you getting some good feedback on your apt testing?
<arosales> 0% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-apt-improvements
<roaksoax> waiting on Debian maintainer to see whether I update some stuff myself or take them from Debian
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks
<Daviey> So.. i'm expecting there is WI's not captured suitable for http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-servercloud-infrastructure-deployment.html
<roaksoax> arosales: I much rather do from debian, otherwise, will take care of it next week
<Daviey> we aren't that far along :)
<rbasak> I hit a bug with the apt by-hash mirror script. I've been working on this today. Expect a call for testing in a day or two.
<arosales> Daviey: wow, that progress looks good
<arosales> for precise though, right?
<jamespage> hrm - that was last release
<arosales> rbasak: thanks for working on apt :-)
<Daviey> jamespage: you spotted the intentional error
<arosales> utlemming: another one for you
<arosales> 0% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-push-to-the-clouds
<utlemming> that's actually inprogress and almost done
<arosales> adam_g: I am guessing we can't yet start on the charms yet probably why this one is at 0%  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-charms
<jamespage> all good for the beta-1 target then
<Daviey> smoser: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-cloud-init-utils ?
<arosales> utlemming: ok, I see  a few of those are in progress, thanks
<smoser> well, i've made some progress on some of those things.
<smoser> i thin honestly many will move to "DO NOT DO"
<smoser> or POSTPONED
<Daviey> or CBA
<Daviey> :)
<zul> arosales: openstack is in a state of flux on ubuntu, hope to get it back on track this week
<arosales> ok, and charms follow that, gotcha
<Daviey> shall we progress?
<arosales> jamespage: those are the ones I had
<jamespage> ok moving on then
<jamespage> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<smoser> i think that roaksoax has been banging this drum for maas
<Daviey> jamespage / smoser: What is stopping 12.04.1 shipping today?
<smoser> which was the one thing that really was still on our list
<roaksoax> yeah
<roaksoax> one of the things that concerns me is the readyness of MAAS without cobbler
<roaksoax> we were expecting to have things a couple weeks ago but things are still in progress
<jamespage> I think that is probably the biggest concern
<smoser> list is at http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<Daviey> right
<roaksoax> hopefiully by the end of this week we will see something shiny without cobbler
<roaksoax> other than that, I'm doing weekly uploads of MAAS for precise in testing PPA
<roaksoax> this week's will contain the DNS stuff ready
<roaksoax> ah, and before I forget, python-celery in Precise is in universe, and we will need it in main
<roaksoax> before we can successfully SRU MAAS
<jamespage> roaksoax, I'm not convinced that this is going to make the cutoffs for 12.04.1
<jamespage> that seems to be alot todo; and its not that far away....
<jamespage> anyway
<jamespage> anything else for 12.04.1?
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<roaksoax> it is indeed a lot to do
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anything anyone wants to raise re events?
<arosales> nothing on the juju front in the next couple of weeks
<arosales> CloudOpen at the end of August is the next on the list
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh - around?
<jamespage> mmm - maybe not - is adam_g around? maybe he could give us an update on Openstack CI activities?
<jamespage> nope - OK moving on then
<Daviey> jamespage: adam_g wanted a few of us to have a separate chat.. probably a little detailed for here.
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * Daviey broadsides smb with bug 1031090.
<jamespage> smb - your are on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031090 in linux (Ubuntu) "kvm_intel not loadable in a quantal guest" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031090
<jamespage> yeah - that one....
 * smb totally forgot about the meeting start
<smb> Daviey, its a bug...
<Daviey> smb: is it fixed :)
<smb> Daviey, loading kvm module in a guest???
<jamespage> working in precise apparently
<Daviey> smb: nested kvm
<jamespage> smb - did you have anything else for today
<jamespage> ?
<smb> There might be more info in dmesg...
<smb> jamespage, No not really
<Daviey> smb: dmesg is silent
<smb> sorry
<jamespage> smb, np - I think that bug is pretty important as its blocking how the security team test openstack stuff...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Calxeda ECX-1000 support is in precise-proposed. It should hit precise-updates in a few days.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<zul> ecx-1000?
<rbasak> That's the official name for highbank I think
<zul> ah ok
<Daviey> rbasak: so.. was talking with apw yesterday about including the device tree for qemu usage
<Daviey> hopefully that should be included in the next precise kernel aswell
<rbasak> current kernels look like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1121679/
<rbasak> Not sure what version that change will/has go/gone into
<Daviey> rbasak: not landed yet
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> Proposed installer images for highbank are here: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise-proposed/main/installer-armhf/current/images/highbank/netboot/
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 31 16:39:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-31-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-31-16.03.html
<jamespage> ermm - the bot went a bit quiet on me for a bit then
<arosales> thanks for chairing jamespage
<jamespage> gah - missed all of rbasak's update
<Daviey> thanks jamespage
<arosales> jamespage: I think the logs captured it
<jamespage> yeah pretty much
<arosales> unless there were any open discussion items  I think that was a wrap
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 31 17:00:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<herton> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> \o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: porting of tilt-3.4 [1] on top of Q 3.5 master continues.
<ppisati> The resulting kernel is available here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ppisati/ubuntu-quantal.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35
<ppisati> The entire patchset is available here: http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/ti-omap4-tilt-34-on-35/tilt-3.4/
<ppisati> The "done" directory contains the patches i already ported(646), "skipped" contains the patches left for later evaluation(27) and "already" contains the patches that were already found upstream(52) - 725 out of 1708 patches were handled in total, so far so good.
<ppisati> [1]: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/andygreen/kernel-tilt.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tilt-3.4
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> just a sec...
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || bjf         || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || cooloney    || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently uploaded the 3.5.0-7.7 Quantal kernel to the
<ogasawara> quantal-proposed pocket.  This upload includes misc config updates and
<ogasawara> bug fixes.  This will also be uploaded to the q-lts-backport [1] PPA to
<ogasawara> help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We welcome anyone
<ogasawara> to please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Aug 30 - Beta 1 (~4 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-07-31 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 96 CVEs on our radar, with one CVE added and two retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (July 31):
<henrix>  
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 2 CVEs; (16 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - In Testing; 3 CVEs; (6 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Verification; 2 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (101 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Verification; 3 CVEs; 3 upstream stable release(s); (212 commits)
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix>  
<henrix> The week of Sept. 6 is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 31 17:05:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-31-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-07-31-17.00.html
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
<sconklin> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> efficient as ever
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-01
 * smb -> BOD
<smb> morning
<Ravi325> Hi anyone there?
<sagaci> there's no meeting scheduled, so probably not
<Ravi325> oh
<smartboyhw> Okay, guys, Ubuntu QA meeting starting in 3 minutes
<smartboyhw> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug  1 14:00:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is smartboyhw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<smartboyhw> Okay, welcome to the Ubuntu QA meeting
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Ubuntu updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu updates
<smartboyhw> Thank you all for testing Ubuntu 12.10 Alpha 3....
<smartboyhw> We hope that the follwing few weeks we will have good testing from everybody
<smartboyhw> Clearly Balloons has started a Webapps testing for both 12.04 and 12.10
 * balloons waves
<smartboyhw> Thank him for that, hope everyone will enjoy the testing...
<smartboyhw> We will have Ubuntu 12.04.1 on week 17 (August 23rd)
<smartboyhw> Did anyone test these builds, the Precise ones?
<smartboyhw> We'd better test those builds in the coming weeks ahead
<smartboyhw> So that's all from me, then...
<smartboyhw> Balloons please add more information, if you would like to
<smartboyhw> No info from Balloons, so let's move on
<balloons> Sure, next week we'll be testing the daily iso's as part of our testing cadence, but as smartboyhw mentioned, during this week you have the oppurtunity to help with webapps
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> Fine, thank you
<smartboyhw> Moving on to Ubuntu Flavors, shall we?
 * phillw is here for lubuntu
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavors
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Flavors
<smartboyhw> Good, phillw, lubuntu updates please
<phillw> our a3 went well, just a couple of minor niggles that are being investigated.
<smartboyhw> Good, then
<smartboyhw> Any other flavors to discuss
<smartboyhw> ?
<phillw> our main apps are all now in, some artwork still to come in.
<smartboyhw> Wow, we are waiting for the beautiful artwork
<smartboyhw> Any other flavors, e.g. Xubuntu and Edubuntu?
<balloons> o/
<smartboyhw> Clearly there's not, right?
<smartboyhw> So should we move on to Other Topics?
<smartboyhw> Any Q&As?
<smartboyhw> Go ahead and say, balloons
<balloons> phillw, how's the ppc stuff?
<phillw> it now installs!!!
<balloons> the ff build is working now, is the installer ok?
<balloons> yay!
<phillw> we have a 3rd ppc tester :)
<smartboyhw> Whom?
<phillw> he he - I've forgotten his name!
<balloons> phillw, :-p
<phillw> https://launchpad.net/~rm2892
<phillw> him ^^ (Ron)
<smartboyhw> I agree, :-)
<balloons> that's good.. so no bugs atm that need attention?
<phillw> iso's are still over sized, Julien is looking into it.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, they are all out of 703MiB
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> Hopefully you can fix it before Beta 1.
<smartboyhw> So moving on now?
<phillw> that is the p
<phillw> plan
<smartboyhw> Good.
<phillw> ..
<smartboyhw> Moving on...
<smartboyhw> [TOPIC] Other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other topics
<smartboyhw> Anyone had other topics to discuss?
<balloons> o/
<smartboyhw> Please say, balloons...
<smartboyhw> Go ahead, balloons
<balloons> i wanted to mention august is going to have some interesting opportunities for us in testing. In the coming weeks we'll be testing unity, other applications
<balloons> and the work for the community hardware database should be unveiling
<smartboyhw> UserInterfaceFreeze of Ubuntu 12.10 is on August 30th
<smartboyhw> Also for Beta 1
<smartboyhw> FeatureFreeze coming on 23rd August
<balloons> also, i'd like to get a feel of how everyone perceives quality for this cycle -- look for an email soon
<balloons> ..
<smartboyhw> OK, so end the meeting now?
<balloons> if there's no other questions or things to discuss yes
<balloons> :-)
<smartboyhw> Next chair is phillw on August 8th
<smartboyhw> So end meeting
<smartboyhw> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug  1 14:21:46 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-01-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-01-14.00.html
<balloons> thanks for chairing smartboyhw
<phillw> smartboyhw: thanks for chairing
<balloons> u did well
<smartboyhw> Yeah!
<balloons> your mission now is to recruit someone for the end of august to chair
<balloons> :-)
<smartboyhw> OK....
<balloons> smartboyhw, lol.. no worries, i
<balloons> i have somene in mind
<smartboyhw> I actually tried to copy balloons' meeting on 18th August...
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
<smartboyhw> Why wave? No meeting till 2200UTC...
<stgraber> smartboyhw: foundations team meeting like every week at this time
<smartboyhw> Oh, I just finished my first QA meeting as chair
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug  1 15:00:59 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> #topic lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<ogra_> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> infinity barry stokachu ev xnox bdmurray stgraber cjwatson slangasek jodh doko ogra
 * xnox 0/
<infinity> * Kernel SRU ferrying, and other SRU and AA work
<infinity> * Worked on eglibc bugfixes and backports for quantal and precise to make Friday's deadline
<infinity> * Accidentally broke the archive (due to bug #1031061) and spent some time fixing it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031061 in ubuntu-archive-tools "remove-package --source-only doesn't do as advertised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031061
<infinity> * Worked more with lamont on sorting out the (un)happiness of panda buildds
<infinity> * Fixed bug #1029556 in live-build
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029556 in live-build (Ubuntu Precise) "Only include linux-headers for the kernels being shipped on the image" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029556
<infinity> * Worked on some build failures over the weekend
<infinity> * Somehow got sick, but discovered I can't file bugs against myself
<infinity> * Note: Monday is a holiday for me
<infinity> [...]
<barry> abandoned work on xapian py3 bindings since both swig and cython approaches hit deadends.  bug 1029094.  bug 1026203.  python bug 15458 (python3-config --configdir doko \o/).  importlib docs landed for py3.3 in time for beta2.  dmb meeting.  gwibber py3 work started.  done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029094 in Ubuntu One Control Panel "Replace simplejson with json" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1026203 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "python3-defaults does not yet support Python 3.3" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 15458 in kdelibs (Ubuntu) "kdelibs4: Invalid calculation of PCX image properties possibly permits arbitrary code execution" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15458
<barry> #ubottufail
<stgraber> infinity: Thursday's deadline (21:00 UTC)
<smartboyhw> *help
<infinity> stgraber: My brain works in "end of weeks", but yes. ;)
<stokachu_> barry: finished?
<stokachu_> oh
<barry> stokachu_: yep.  see hidden, supersekrit "done"
<barry> :)
<stokachu_> lol
<cjwatson> Somebody tell me when it's my turn since I missed the start. :)
<ogra_> cjohnston, after stephane
<infinity> cjwatson: You're after stgraber.
<stokachu_> so last two weeks, vacation first week, on-site with customer fixing autofs second, today+tomorrow will be finishing up rdepends testing
<ogra_> grr
<ogra_> cjwatson, ^^
<stokachu_> ...
<cjohnston> yay, me again!
<ogra_> heh
 * ogra_ hugs cjohnston 
<cjohnston> ;-)
 * xnox wait a minute?! did I get skipped?!
 * cjohnston is finished hijacking meeting
<ogra_> xnox, nope
<cjwatson> infinity,ogra_: ta
<slangasek> xnox: your turn now
<ogra_> xnox, you are after the weekly novel paste :)
<ogra_> oh, no ev then
<slangasek> ev is on vac
<xnox> * finished automatic luks encryption for ubiquity. Pushed merge
<xnox>   proposals for: ubiquity and partman-crypto
<xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/ubiquity/crypto-done/+merge/117664
<xnox> * did little work on HPCloud, I have many sbuilds for rebuilds, but
<xnox>   still a few bugs here and there. Should be able to do a rebuild for
<xnox>   stockachu's SRU's today. (it's cloud, so it just works, right?!)
<xnox> * volleyball is great at Earl's Court. I will be off until next Thursday.
 * ogra_ hasnt seen you on TV yet !
 * barry hasn't either!
<ogra_> (though olympics in the US TV is a joke actually)
 * xnox there was a tiny dot in the top right corner at the table, they never show ;-)
<infinity> slangasek: Oh dear.  Are we going to get a 5000-word essay about ev's vacation when he gets back?
<ogra_> LOL !!
<xnox> infinity: s/essay/short novel/
<stokachu_> i think he is finishing his thesis on world domination this week
<stokachu_> up your buffers
<bdmurray> xnox: done?
<xnox> odne
<bdmurray> reported and fixed apt-clone bug regarding usernames and passwords - LP: #1029021
<bdmurray> reported and fixed update-manager bug 1029046 regarding apt-clone system state information
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029046 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "include system state from apt-clone in apport package hook" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029046
<bdmurray> bugbot modification to check systemstate attachment for username and password
<bdmurray> bugbot work to tag bugs verification-failed and regression-proposed
<bdmurray> discovered and fixed missing apport white list stuff in ubuntu-release-upgrader
<bdmurray> precise SRU of update-manager bug 818760 (high on errors.ubuntu.com)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818760 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "update-manager crashed with timeout in readline(): timed out" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818760
<bdmurray> SRU verification of update-manager bug 1002956 for precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002956 in update-manager (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Missing ReleaseNotesViewerWebkit.py from package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002956
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1006633 regarding apport and /etc/default/grub
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006633 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "should collect /etc/default/grub from package install failures due to update-grub failing" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006633
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 972436 regarding apport and precise
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972436 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "backend_helper.py crashed with UnicodeEncodeError in apport_excepthook(): 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe8' in position 166: ordinal not in range(128)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972436
<bdmurray> modified sru-release to comment on bugs and unsubscribe ubuntu-sru team
<bdmurray> modified sru-report to look at message owners when coloring stuff golden
<bdmurray> merge proposal for error tracker bug 1008727 (links changing colors)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1008727 in Errors "link for followed errors doesn't change color" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008727
<bdmurray> â done â
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug in lxc-ubuntu and lxc-ubuntu-cloud that'd make container creation fail now that sysvinit has been fixed.
<stgraber>  - SRUed above fix.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber> - 12.04.1
<stgraber>  - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
<stgraber>  - Went through all the targeted/milestoned bugs for 12.04.1, updated status based on comments and queue status.
<stgraber>  - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
<stgraber>  - Uploaded a few more SRUs for bugs targeted to the point release (usb-creator, ubiquity, isc-dhcp, ubuntu-docs)
<stgraber> - Image based system
<stgraber>  - Implemented proof of concept for foundations-q-image-based-updates, can be found in lp:~stgraber/+junk/image-setup
<stgraber>  - Talked a bit with tedg on the work being done by his team.
<stgraber> - SRU
<stgraber>  - Working on fixing the fglrx/fglrx-updates purge bug, hitting a few other weirdness in the maintainer scripts...
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Alpha 3
<stgraber>  - Update publish-image-set in ubuntu-archive-tools to properly deal with the new arm images
<stgraber>  - Almost done merging LTSP with Debian, it might be the first time we do that, so the delta was huge, but it's now quite small and readable, so LTSP should be much easier to maintain in the future.
<slangasek> xnox: did you see the further discussion on the mdadm SRU regression (bug #1030292)?  Any thoughts on how to deal with that so we can have the mdadm fixes for .1?
<stgraber>  - Some ARB app review, the app showdown made the ARB New queue reach 140 packages... Still 50 to review...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030292 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "initramfs does not boot with mdadm (3.2.5-1ubuntu0.1)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030292
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<cjwatson> Very short week: holiday Wed-Fri.  Internet connection down at home for over a week now, causing substantial disruption to my working style.
<cjwatson> Move server image base system squashfs (set up last week) from /casper/ to /install/ to reduce confusion.
<cjwatson> Drop build-dependency on poxml in installation-guide (bug 1031478).
<cjwatson> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031478 in installation-guide (Ubuntu Quantal) "Drop Build-Depends on poxml" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031478
<cjwatson> Did almost all the work required to kill off the old copy-package.py script in Launchpad.  Should be possible following tomorrow's deployment.  This will include archive admins no longer needing to approve copies as a separate step.
<cjwatson> Investigating xorriso 1.2.4, which (once I work out how to drive it) may clean up Mac/UEFI image building sufficiently that we can ditch the amd64+mac images.
<stgraber> wow, that'd be great! (no more +mac images)
<cjwatson> it claims to be equivalent to mjg's isohybrid work
<xnox> slangasek: i believe that mdadm fighting with dmraid correctly, because existing users of IMSM did have dmraid (since mdadm had no support for it). And mdadm fails to activate or do anything useful with IMSM on boot because mdmon is not in the initramfs.
<jdstrand> cjwatson: re copy-package.py> \o/
<xnox> slangasek: so my plan is to push mdmon into initramfs in quantal. Ask those users with IMSM to test.
<cjwatson> jdstrand: also https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/pocket-queue-admin/+merge/117630
<ogra_> xnox, stop growing the initrds !
<xnox> slangasek: on these grounds the SRU should probably be rejected, but I still want to test other parts of it. Or I can reupload the SRU but drop the ISMS and DDF containers from the udev rules file.
<slangasek> xnox: hrm, I don't understand.  Surely if the device is currently configured under dmraid, an upgrade to mdadm shouldn't cause it to suddenly start being assembled by mdadm?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: that's awesome :)
<xnox> ogra_: but it's only for those who have niche hardware! =)
<cjwatson> jdstrand: if *that* gets merged we can probably just have you use something equivalent to unembargo --copy for everything
<cjwatson> and then ditch the ubuntu-security celebrity from LP \o/
<jdstrand> wow, great stuff :)
<ogra_> xnox, well, if its not in all initrds i'm fine ... ac100 has a 1.5MB limit in the bootloader
<xnox> slangasek: yeah. good point. no clue. my guess is that the udev event fires and mdadm now listens to it. and we currently assemble all mdadm arrays we find.
<xnox> slangasek: there are other bugs part of ReliableRaid as to conditionally assemble arrays and not drop into initramfs if some raid arrays fail to assemble (e.g. if /opt/ failed to assemble we should continue to boot)
<xnox> ..
<slangasek> xnox: so does the mdadm rule need to be listed later than the dmraid rule, or does it need to respect the dmraid config, or something?  do you have some time yet to look at this today?  We really need this solved this week if we're going to have it in .1
<xnox> ok. I will look into dmraid/mdadm interaction today.
<slangasek> xnox: (dropping the ISMS handling also seems ok for now)
<xnox> slangasek: to be honest. for that user, neither may have been setup.
<xnox> and mdadm trying and failing spectacularly.
<xnox> cjwatson: finished fixing up comments from the first review of crypto-done
<xnox> pushed.
<slangasek>  * patch piloting on Monday, taking a few old requests off the queue (couchdb, libav)
<slangasek>  * multiarch upload sponsorships to precise
<slangasek>  * SRU processing: reviewing cedarview enablement packages in precise-proposed
<slangasek>  * fixed a bug in sdlgfx that was making frozen-bubble uninstallable in quantal (bug #1029981)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029981 in sdlgfx (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on i386 in quantal" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029981
<slangasek>  * updated skype packages in partner
<slangasek>  * scheduled foot surgery; outpatient procedure so not taking any time off, but hours will shift around a little over the next weeks
<slangasek> (done)
<jodh> * boot/upstart: stateful re-exec:
<jodh>   - enum handling now complete.
<jodh>   - need to finish off dbus connection serialisation and map out
<jodh>     strategy for dummy ConfSource/inotify handling.
<jodh>   - currently working on stitching minimal set of pieces together and putting
<jodh>     them into a PPA for *very* early testing.
<jodh>  
<jodh> ... and for infinity (determined to get more mileage out of this "Tetris" (TM) gag)...
<jodh>  
<jodh> â ¡â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â ±â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â ¤â â ­â â â ±
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ºâ â â â â â â â â â ¨
<infinity> slangasek: Well, thank god for frozen-bubble fixes.
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¥â 
<jodh> â â â â â â â â â â â â ½â â â â â â â ¥â â â ½â â â â â â â â ¥â â â â â â â â â â â ½â â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> â â â ¤â â â ¥â â â â â â â ½â â ºâ â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â 
<jodh> â â â â â â ¥â â â â â 
<jodh> â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â â ¡â §â â â ½â ¡â â â â â â ½â â â â â â â â â ¨
<jodh> ð½
<jodh>  
<jodh> oh yeah - patch piloted on tuesday too :)
<doko> could somebody translate? ;p
 * ogra_ wonders if jodh ever looked at irclogs.ubuntu.com ... 
<xnox> doko: it's the same report in braile
<jodh> ogra_: I did, but couldn't bear the thought that infinity didn't ;)
<ogra_> jodh, well, its just junk in the txt logs
<jodh> ogra_: just goes to prove - repeats are never as good as the live event ;)
<ogra_> heh
<xnox> infinity: btw, i did not get around to doing e2fsprogs summary/test-cases
<infinity> xnox: I figured, based on my not hearing about it. :)
<doko> jodh, are you finished?
<ogra_> doko, <jodh> ð½
<ogra_> indeed he is :)
<xnox> doko: the fancy UTF-8 character is finish ;-)
<jodh> +1 :)
<doko> back from vacation and two weeks of real offline time, wading through emails, preparing binutils, gcc, openjdk updates
<doko> (unfancy dot)
 * xnox want utf-8 language keywords in C++'12
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * switched omap/omap4 images to use uEnv.txt and preEnv.txt (this completely drops
<ogra_>   the requirement of boot.scr and gives us plain text files for setting boot options)
<ogra_>   the installed system still uses boot.scr after install, flash-kernel changes for
<ogra_>   this are in the works and should land mid next week
<ogra_> * QA sprint: implementing fully automatic image testing on pandaboards, issues with usbboot
<ogra_>   to provide the bootloader to the boards were solved the last two days with some hardware
<ogra_>   hacking and soldering (expect an intresting blog article the next days ;) )
 * doko hits xnox
<ogra_> * QA sprint: implementing an automatic provisioning system for pandaboards via tftp, http
<ogra_>   and usbboot/udev to pull, install and run images from cdimage automatically
<ogra_>   (blog and documentation pending). many thanks to rsalveti and jcrigby for working after
<ogra_>   hours and at night on the u-boot bugs we are finding along the way !
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * finish the transition to uEnv.txt and preEnv.txt on omap/omap4 images
<slangasek> xnox: neither may have been setup> if you look at the udev log, you'll see that in his successful boot there are dmraid devices
<ogra_> * document the new way of booting with the above
<ogra_> * QA sprint: finish the fully automatic image test suite for pandas
<ogra_> ..
 * xnox hides behind infinity.
<xnox> slangasek: hmm... missed it. ok.
<jodh> xnox: hey - we could create a IOC++CC then!
<doko> hide *where*?
<ogra_> oh, and i got an imx6 board that i havent unpacked yet :)
<doko> then you don't need it. send it to me =)
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> i guess yu can get one as well
<xnox> i had some luck with my pandaboard.
<ogra_> \o/
<slangasek> any questions on any of the above?
<xnox> installed with ssh server, but pending on external storage for sbuild slave
<infinity> cjwatson: Any opinions on bug #1031061 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031061 in ubuntu-archive-tools "remove-package --source-only doesn't do as advertised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031061
<slangasek> xnox: so e2fsprogs is not quite there... should bug #978012 be unmilestoned?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978012 in e2fsprogs (Ubuntu Precise) "Please SRU micro bug fix release of e2fsprogs 1.42.4-3ubuntu1 (main) from Quantal (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978012
<xnox> slangasek: yes
<cjwatson> infinity: I followed up
<cjwatson> wgrant was pretty much "package removals shouldn't be exported if you can use them to leave orphaned binaries" IIRC
<slangasek> stgraber: ^^ unmilestoning e2fsprogs then, unless you want to follow it up yourself
<cjwatson> perhaps because the same would apply to PPAs ...
<cjwatson> certainly my bad for forgetting about that while writing the client
<infinity> cjwatson: Ahh, hadn't thought of the PPA angle.
<slangasek> infinity, cjwatson: but fundamentally, the binaries it removed were ones *not* from the source package being removed, no?
<slangasek> they came from the new source package
<stgraber> slangasek: I don't see any bug that would prevent installation, so I'm fine with it being fixed in -updates
<infinity> slangasek: No, it removed the source+binaries that belonged together.
<slangasek> stgraber: ok
<infinity> slangasek: Nothing from the new source.
<smartboyhw> Excuse me, which command for help?
<infinity> slangasek: It didn't do anything "wrong" on that front, it just did something very unexpected. :P
<cjwatson> slangasek: they did?  the bug doesn't say that
<cjwatson> smartboyhw: we're in the middle of a meeting here
<slangasek> infinity: oh - binaries also renamed and the old binaries were current?
<smartboyhw> Sorry, I have to ask..
<infinity> slangasek: Right.
<cjwatson> smartboyhw: please use some different channel for experimenting with IRC
<infinity> slangasek: There was no overlap at all between the source packages and their binary children.
<slangasek> yeah.  I'm trying to remember if source-only removal is normal usage there... I guess historically that's how we put such packages on the NBS report
<infinity> slangasek: Which was why the goal was to remove source-only and do a soft transition with the help of the NBS tracker.  Which then turned into a panicked "oh crap, all the old libraries are gone" transition. ;)
<cjwatson> personally, I've never used source-only removal
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> feels dirty to me
<infinity> cjwatson: Yeah, I'm okay with losing the option.
<slangasek> ok, well, I think we've gotten enough mileage out of that bug for this meeting either way
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<infinity> cjwatson: Although, note the output from the command.  Was that ubuntu-archive's fault, or the API's?
<cjwatson> but if you really think we need it, raise an LP bug
<slangasek> bdmurray: what's buggy?
<cjwatson> infinity: the client's
<bdmurray> bug 938869 has been receiving some recent duplicates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938869 in lsb (Ubuntu) "lsb_release crashed with SIGABRT in Py_FatalError()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938869
<cjwatson> that's gotta be a python3.2 bug?
<cjwatson> or, well, this is precise so python2.7
<bdmurray> InterpreterPath: /usr/bin/python3.2mu
<cjwatson> oh, it says 3
<cjwatson> yeah
<cjwatson> I don't think we shipped precise that way though?  the bug is from Feb
<infinity> 3.2mu?
<cjwatson> at least one recent dup is from quantal
<slangasek> cjwatson: lsb-release flip-flopped a couple of times in previous releases
<slangasek> (pre-release)
<cjwatson> infinity: readlink -f /usr/bin/python3
<cjwatson> slangasek: right, I remember
<barry> weird
<bdmurray> 5 of the 6 duplicates are using Quantal
<slangasek> for as much as we use lsb-release in the distro, though, this has to be a small corner case if there are only 7 reports
<infinity> Yeah.
<slangasek> reassign to python3.2?
<infinity> It would be breaking builds too, if it was consistent.
<cjwatson> looks like "interpreter completely busted" to me
<cjwatson> lsb_release just the first thing it bites?
<slangasek> there are similar bug reports against other python packages
<slangasek> bug #1022205
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1022205 could not be found
<barry> private bug
<slangasek> bug #958374, but that's python2.7
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 958374 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with SIGABRT in Py_FatalError()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958374
<slangasek> barry: publicked
<xnox> barry: yeah, it could still print 'try http://pad.lv/1022205/ '
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022205 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "command-not-found crashed with SIGABRT in Py_FatalError()" [Medium,New]
<barry> sure seems like a dup
<slangasek> bug reassigned; doko, could you follow up on it?
<infinity> When did the retracers start giving me disassembly?  Fancy.
<infinity> Or, rather, apport, not the retracer.
<infinity> It was in the original report...
<slangasek> augh, why is the duplicate-marker full of fancy ui now
<cjwatson> that was a change that landed today I think
<xnox> ubiquity is trending on errors.ubuntu.com with "on page-ask, clicking abort results in" bug 1027648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1027648 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with ValueError in command(): I/O operation on closed file." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027648
<xnox> maybe users should not abort installing ubuntu....
<infinity> "To orientate at the bugnumber this crasher must be an old nable."
<infinity> I couldn't have said it better myself.
 * barry is sad: "No symbol table info available."
<cjwatson> xnox: sigh, that disaster again
<xnox> cjwatson: didn't strace it yet.... luckily it's much earlier this time.
<xnox> looks like it's watching debconf_fd's but cleans them up too early/late
 * slangasek taps the network with his foot
<slangasek> what'd I miss?
<ogra_> silence
<ogra_> about 2 mins of it
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
<infinity> slangasek: Depends on the delta between when you lost your connection and when the server punted you. :P
<slangasek> infinity: 5
<ogra_> oh, right i was judging by the disconnect message
<infinity> slangasek: Then you missed punch and pie.
 * slangasek nods
<bdmurray> bug 1029864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029864 in brltty (Ubuntu) "read error appears from brltty during precise server iso testing" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029864
<doko> sladen, will do
 * xnox network is fine, and the foot will be replaced soon. things that slangasek does to get reliable internetz.
<slangasek> bdmurray: looks like TheMuso is TIL on brltty; shall we assign to him?
<cjwatson> yeah, brltty is a desktop thing
<cjwatson> despite its effect here :)
<bdmurray> ah, okay sorry about that
<slangasek> heh, I'll bet the package team mapping says something else, doesn't it
<bdmurray> I think it had started off as a d-i bug
<slangasek> oh neat, I can't load the package team mapping doc
<slangasek> ohwell
<xnox> fix is in debian, so it's an easy merge.
 * slangasek assigns to Luke
<cjwatson> slangasek: package-team-mapping says brltty -> foundations
<cjwatson> which is wrong
<cjwatson> but trying to edit that thing over this network ...
<cjwatson> (not really happening)
<bdmurray> I'll fix it
<stokachu_> lag +234 sweeeeeeeet
<cjwatson> xnox: well, merge and sru
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?  (maybe give them in a batch if so, since we're at time)
<bdmurray> slangasek: just bug 488696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488696 in base-files (Ubuntu Quantal) "syntax error in nsswitch config near [ syntax error ]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488696
<xnox> i am guessing me?
<xnox> and for quantal it's just autofs package?
<xnox> instead of autofs5 package.
<slangasek> er... ok, I've never heard of an automount nsswitch.conf entry before
<slangasek> let's take that over to #ubuntu-devel for further analysis
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?  you have -7 minutes to discuss
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug  1 16:08:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-01-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-01-15.00.html
<slangasek> thanks all :)
<ogra_> thanks slangasek
<xnox> jodh: ev missed your fancy typing =)
<xnox> both times?!
<xnox> slangasek: thanks.
<ogra_> xnox, he can repeat it next meeting
<barry> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-02
<smartboyhw> What's the next meeting coming?
<smartboyhw> Hello
<bootini> hi
<bootini> next meeting ... dunno
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Calendar is at http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, great...
 * skaet waves
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> smoser, stokachu, jibel, NCommander, jamespage: ping
<NCommander> o/
<seb128> hey
<smartboyhw> Oh, what meeting is this?
<stgraber> #startmeeting 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 14:02:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<smartboyhw> Good...
<Daviey> smoser is here, he is just slacking.
<stgraber> #topic Action items review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action items review
<arges> o/
<stgraber> so, only action on the list is xnox's usual item but he's not around, so keeping on the list ;)
<stgraber> #topic Review of upcoming deadlines
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of upcoming deadlines
<stgraber> Daviey: good to know ;)
<smartboyhw> o/
<stgraber>   - today 21:00 UTC: Beginning of PointReleaseProcess and DesktopInfrastructureFreeze
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<stgraber>   - 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> o/
<stgraber> please remind all your team members that uploads for the point release need to happen by TODAY 21:00 UTC (7 hours from now)
<stgraber> smartboyhw: yes?
<smartboyhw> Er, thank you for giving us, the QA team, to test daily builds
<smartboyhw> We will be testing the builds progressively in the weeks...
<smartboyhw> ..
<stgraber> cool, thanks
<stgraber> #topic Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Quick look through the current bug lists, checking for progress.
<stgraber> The number of targeted bugs went from 106 last week to 75!
<stgraber> Of these 75, 32 are in fix commited state (likely waiting in -proposed)
<stgraber> and 9 are marked "in progress" (waiting to be approved).
<stgraber> So that's 34 bugs that still need fixing of which 12 aren't assigned to somebody.
<seb128> it would help if http://people.canonical.com/~arges/point-release/milestone-12.04.1.html was updated
<seb128> the current page is from july 26
<stgraber> arges: ^
<arges> seb128, yes
<arges> seb128, so i'm trying to get it set up as a cronjob on cranberry
<smoser> o/
<arges> seb128, working with DAs on getting that going
<arges> and skaet , Ursinha , bdmurray etc
<seb128> can you run it manually once today?
<arges> seb128, yea i'll just do that
<seb128> thanks
<stgraber> The full list of bugs can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<stgraber> The list of remaining bugs to fix can be found at: http://goo.gl/RUiZe
<stgraber> Some of these aren't assigned to someone yet: http://goo.gl/22zV2
<stgraber> Any bug that's on the list and doesn't have a fix in -proposed or waiting in the unapproved queue will be re-targeted to 12.04.2 shortly after 21:00 UTC today.
<stgraber> It'd be good if all teams could go through the bug list and re-target bugs to realistic milestones before I re-target the rest to 12.04.2.
<stgraber> If you have any bug that absolutely needs to be fixed for 12.04.1 and needs to stay on the list, please ping me with the bug number so I make sure not to move it to 12.04.2. Current list is: bug 1017001, bug 991982, bug 1029531 and bug 987411.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 991982 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029531 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cdromupgrade from Lucid to Precise failed with unmet dependencies without network connection" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 987411 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Quantal) "layout of browser slide in Lubuntu slide show broken (german)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987411
<smartboyhw> how to ping?
<stgraber> any other bugs that you know won't make it by the deadline but is needed for the point release?
<smartboyhw> I thoughy 1029531 is a serious one
<stgraber> yes, and if you look up, you'll see that it's on the list of bugs that are allowed to be fixed post-deadline
<smartboyhw> What is bug 991982/
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 991982 could not be found
<smartboyhw> See...
<stgraber> critical security bug
<stgraber> can't give more details than that, sorry. I have the fix for it but because of its nature, it'll only be uploaded very shortly before we build the final images.
<stgraber> #topic Media oversizedness
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Media oversizedness
<stgraber> Just wanted to give a quick status update on that one.
<smartboyhw> Yeah, they really need to be fixed
<smartboyhw> Thanks, stgraber
<stgraber> infinity uploaded a new live-build fixing the duplication of kernel headers
<stgraber> this should free around 2MB per affected livefs
<stgraber> so that's still between 5MB and 7MB that need to be tracked down and fixed by either changing whatever's taking the extra space or removing langpacks
<smartboyhw> Removing langpacks would be a good idea, I think
<smartboyhw> Put it in the DVDs:)
<stgraber> removing some langpacks is the usual last option, sadly we've been using that trick quite a lot lately so there's pretty much nothing to remove
<stgraber> anyway, I'll be looking into that later this week (after the deadline), it might require some uploads or if we're lucky, just seed changes
<smartboyhw> HAHA
<seb128> do we know what took the place between 12.04 and 12.04.1
<seb128> ?
<smartboyhw> Daily builds?
<seb128> what about daily builds?
<stgraber> seb128: nope, though the current guess is firefox/thunderbird/libreoffice, but that's just a guess
<smartboyhw> It's the Daily Builds compiled for 12.04.1 and 12.10, which we QA Team test...
<stgraber> skaet: hmm, I thought the upper limit was 703MB bug I see a kubuntu build at 704MB not marked as oversized... will have to check if that's just a rounding issue or if something's broken with the check
<skaet> seb128,  we've got scripts that will pull the changelogs
<smartboyhw> It is 703MiB...
<seb128> skaet, I though we had tools telling us what changed between isos?
<smartboyhw> I mean the limit
<stgraber> seb128: I believe we have tools to diff the manifests though we don't have enough history data to pinpoint the image where we went oversized
<skaet> stgraber, yeah,  all of the flavors will need to be double checked.
<stgraber> so will have to go through a pretty long list
<smartboyhw> Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Normal Ubuntu...
<smartboyhw> Xubuntu
<smartboyhw> ..
<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Round table
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ echo $(shuf -e NCommander seb128 stgraber stokachu arges jibel skaet smoser jamespage)
<stgraber> smoser stokachu seb128 jibel NCommander stgraber skaet jamespage arges
<stgraber> smoser: you win :)
<smartboyhw> Congrats...
<skaet> seb128,  there are some tools,  but improvements needed. :/
<smoser> ok.
<smoser> we have made some progress.. again, maas is our big thing that is left out
<smoser> roaksoax is working on that.
<smoser> i had told him that today is deadline, but honestly i think that next week is a better target for his work (and more realisitic)
<smoser> fi there are other thing sthat you feel need priority, then i'm willing to go find a stick.
<Daviey> .. well today is simply not viable.
<smartboyhw> I agree...
<smoser> other than that, i think we're doing ok, and that is all from me.
<stgraber> smoser, Daviey, jamespage: can you give me a list of server bugs that you will fix for the point release but won't make it today?
<smoser> stgraber, can i come back to you with that?
<stgraber> sure, just make sure you give me that before 21:00 UTC if you don't want to see your bugs getting milestoned to .2 :)
<stgraber> stokachu:
<smartboyhw> Could one of you go to the Ubuntu QA Meeting on 8th August?
<smartboyhw> I will add it to the agenda to discuss about 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> 1400UTC
<smoser> k
<stgraber> smartboyhw: can you wait until we're done with the roundtable and get to the AOB part of the meeting? (I won't make it at least, meeting conflict)
<smartboyhw> Sorry...
<stgraber> seb128: you're up (no stokachu apparently)
<seb128> hey
<seb128> so desktop is mostly done for .1, some bugs didn't made it but that's not end of the world and not important for the iso
<arges> stgraber, yea no stokes. i know he's been heads down with multiarch work
<seb128> we still have a nux and some easy updates in the proposed queue
<seb128> upload date is counted for what goes in right?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> if it's in unapproved, it's fine by me
<seb128> we delayed the unity performances improvement to after .1, too risky that late
<seb128> otherwise something to sort for .1
<seb128> the desktop team really wants whoopsie off by default
<seb128> what's the right place, people to discuss, decide this?
<skaet> seb128,  start a thread on ubuntu-release
<seb128> ok
<smartboyhw> I will go to #ubuntu-release now to see...
<seb128> ..
<smartboyhw> Hmm...
<seb128> I'm done otherwise
<seb128> what's the opinion of people here on whoopsie by default?
<arges> seb128, skaet : i've been noticing its popping up a lot less with the latest precise...  does it not pop up if its a known crash?
<seb128> arges, it does stop bothering you after 3 times, but that's considered a bug by the whoopsie guys, it should bother you every time you hit the bug
<arges> seb128, hmm. whats the bug #?
<arges> i've love to make sure i'm sending those reports
<skaet> arges,   ev will know for certain and should be part of the discussion at any rate.
<seb128> arges, not sure
<arges> ok
<stgraber> I think it'll be an interesting discussion, whoopsie was definitely designed to be always on but I can also see how it's annoying for some users.
<seb128> the cost-benefit seems in our disfavor at this point imho
<seb128> (I discussed that with pitti and didrocks and some others last week)
<arges> either way it would be good for it to be switchable for those of us that want to send those reports
<seb128> we bother lot of users and give the impression that the system is unstable
<stgraber> I'm wondering if we couldn't get away with changing the popup message and offering to "always silently report" and "never report for that user" in that same dialog, so that user can choose to stop being poked all the time but still send the crashes (making the choice to send us data without reviewing it first)
<seb128> imho we should have it always one, but not for the lts since it's too early
<seb128> errors.ubuntu.com is still buggy and we still have backlog of issues and annoy users too much
<skaet> seb128,   can you include the bug number info in the email thread (and if no bug number exists create one?)
<seb128> ok
<stgraber> so yeah, I think it's a good discussion to have and one where we definitely need Evan involved, so ubuntu-release@lists.u.c sounds like the right place for that
<seb128> is ev on that list?
<stgraber> good question
<stgraber> skaet: can you check? (I don't have mailman access to that one)
<skaet> seb128,  I'll check,  but make it explicit to him,  just in case
<seb128> ok
<smartboyhw> I'm back
<stgraber> jibel:
<stgraber> around? (I know you're sprinting)
<jibel> hi
<jibel> Ran manual upgrade tests, found 1029531
<jibel> Continued with SRU verification
<jibel> Found a little confusion around Wubi images that were overwritting Quantal ones.
<jibel> infinity fixed it 1 hour ago, waiting for Precise wubi images to show up and proceed to verification.
<smartboyhw> Bug 1029531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029531 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cdromupgrade from Lucid to Precise failed with unmet dependencies without network connection" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029531
<jibel> wubi.exe will need an update to point to the location of 12.04.1 disk images.
<smartboyhw> I know that one
<jibel> smartboyhw, please wait until ..
<smartboyhw> I mean the bug
<jibel> Not much otherwise since I've been sprinting all week, will continue with SRU verification next week.
<jibel> ..
<skaet> jibel, I've put a ping in to ev on update to 12.04.1
<jibel> skaet, ta
<seb128> did we sort out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gsettings-desktop-schemas/+bug/1022864 btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1022864 in gsettings-desktop-schemas (Ubuntu Quantal) "Lucid to Precise upgrade test failed: User settings are not preserved on upgrade" [High,New]
<skaet> for wubi,  but haven't heard back.   will keep it on the radar.
<jibel> seb128, no, not yet, it's on my todo first thing next week
<seb128> nobody replied to pitti's comment
<seb128> jibel, thanks
<stgraber> NCommander:
<NCommander> Highbank migrated to updates and is set for 12.04.1
<NCommander> I'm getting armadaxp checked in prep for 12.04.1 and we're looking pretty solid for the release
<NCommander> ..
<stgraber> stgraber:
<stgraber> I've been going through the foundations bug, clearing the list quite a bit. We're now left with an eglibc update and the security bugs to upload
<stgraber> eglibc should land this weekend at the latest, the others will land just before final freeze
<stgraber> I've been doing a bit of verification, trying to get that list a bit shorter, uploaded and tested a refreshed ubiquity (picking up the ARM stuff and the d-i-u fix)
<stgraber> I'll continue with the nagging for the rest of today, deal with the freeze (+ re-target) and then start looking into the oversizedness problem
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> skaet:
<skaet> New translations are being uploaded to -proposed now.
<skaet> Daily Precise builds have been enabled for all the images on the manifest.
<skaet> #action Flavor leads participating,  please verify that the images are as you expect,  and start smoke testing tomorrow to make sure all the right 12.04.1 bits are in place.
<skaet> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<skaet> Will be starting on updating the Release Notes for 12.04.1 this week, and pulling information from the various leads.
<meetingology> ACTION: Flavor leads participating,  please verify that the images are as you expect,  and start smoke testing tomorrow to make sure all the right 12.04.1 bits are in place.
<skaet> What's new is that we will be snapshotting (and saving) what is currently there for 12.04 and then updating the notes to reflect the 12.04.1 status and changelogs.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> stgraber,  there's an ABI bump on the new kernel,  will you be handling it as well?
<skaet> s/it/d-i changes/
<stgraber> skaet: I can do that, yes.
<skaet> stgraber,  thanks!  :)
<stgraber> skaet: what's the ETA for the new kernel?
<stgraber> I know they have an extra week to have their things uploaded
<skaet> stgraber,  I'll get with you offline about it.    There's one that just went up,  but not sure if there will be another.
 * skaet trying to get some more info on that 
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> jamespage:
<Daviey> stgraber: he is away today
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> arges:
<arges> stgraber, been trying to get my reports on cranberry, working on this.
<arges> in the meantime will get it working on my desktop. just updated the report.
<arges> ..
<stgraber> #topic AOB
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<smartboyhw> o/
<stgraber> smartboyhw: go ahead
<smartboyhw> Yep
<smartboyhw> As I said before, I invite you to one of our QA meetings
<smartboyhw> Since the QA team would like to talk about 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> Er... Maybe on 8th August or 15th August..
<smartboyhw> ..
<skaet> smartboyhw, I'll try to be there
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> I have a conflict at that time but might still be looking at IRC, we'll see.
<smartboyhw> The 8th August or 15th August?
<smartboyhw> I only need 1 representative.
<smartboyhw> ..
<skaet> smartboyhw,  I can do the 8th.
<stgraber> my conflict is on every Wednesdays, so if skaet can make it, that's good. Though it sounds like we're having a lot of meetings (release + 12.04.1) and we already have jibel from QA in the 12.04.1 meeting to coordinate the work.
<smartboyhw> Good. I will add it to the agenda
<smartboyhw> 1400UTC, chair phillw.
<smartboyhw> ..
<stgraber> alright, time to get back to trying to fix these 34 remaining bugs ;)
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 14:55:34 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-14.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-14.02.html
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<smartboyhw> Thanks..
<skaet> Thanks stgraber
<arges> thanks
<arges> :q!
<jibel> thank you stgraber
<czajkowski> pleia2: beuno shall we start :)
<pleia2> si!
<beuno> o/
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 17:00:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<JoseeAntonioR> hablando espaÃ±ol, huh?
<czajkowski> Aloha and welcome to Augusts meeting of the lovely CC folks :)
<itnet7> Hey there!~
<pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: un poco
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<czajkowski> this weeks agenda
<czajkowski> #topic LoCo Council catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: LoCo Council catch up
<czajkowski> itnet7: greg-g huats ping
<itnet7> Hey there again ;-)
<czajkowski> thanks for coming to the meeting , this is just a catch up like last cycle to let the CC know how things are going, how they can help in any way and just general feedback
<itnet7> Cool, thanks for having us!
<czajkowski> also apologies from sabdfl for the meeting
<czajkowski> and from paolo, cproffit
<pleia2> summertime means vacations :)
<czajkowski> itnet7: so care to tell us how the LC is doing ? anything you want to share ?
<itnet7> Things are going pretty well as far as I can tell, we're trying to find ways of working together, though it seems a lot of us have a bunch of stuff going on lately in our personal lives
<pleia2> I know how that can get :\
<pleia2> how many reapprovals this cycle?
<czajkowski> we had over 34 to do
<czajkowski> and we're down to 15
<pleia2> wow!
<czajkowski> so that's been really good
<pleia2> nice job
<czajkowski> and keeps us on our toes
<czajkowski> many come to our meeting and others due to timezone difference and language come via email
<czajkowski> which has worked out well and something we started to do to help people
<pleia2> great
<itnet7> Teams are very excited, and have been doing a lot of great things
<pleia2> council itself aside, any issues you're seeing with loco teams more generally?
<czajkowski> one issue I see a lot is people not communicating issues down to the rest of their teams
<itnet7> agreed
<czajkowski> so we may post stuff to loco contacts list but we don't know if it goes to the rest of the team
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> an example of this would be the CDs even up to re approvals we note people havent received their cds and it's just a case of people have just not made any noise about it, and an email later and they have been sorted
<pleia2> has the loco council blog helped with that at all do you think?
<czajkowski> pleia2: a little but again not the level I'd hoped to be honest.
<pleia2> that's tough
<itnet7> I haven't really been able to contribute to the LC Blog
<YokoZar> The CDs issue seems to be a recurrent one, honestly.  I wonder if we can figure out a way to track/manage that better.
<czajkowski> itnet7: I think we as a team could improve on that, so our monthly report could go on there
<czajkowski> YokoZar: well out of over 80 teams, only 5 didn't get them so far
<czajkowski> a lot of is it down to people not filling in the form correctly, or the CDs being stuck at customs in some counteries
<czajkowski> it has improved vastly
<pleia2> without my CC hat on, the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter has a LoCo section, which we are always looking to populate, so if there is ever anything you guys need added there to help spread the word, please let me know (already grab everything that goes to planet) or if you have ideas for that section
<czajkowski> pleia2: thank you
<itnet7> awesome
<pleia2> good to hear at least the CD situation is improving :)
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> an like all things, there is often some tweaking needed
<czajkowski> so now more notice is given to people to apply, but even then people apply late so then large orders come in one go so we did ry and get people to appy early so itcould be better handled
<czajkowski> there is often the big confusion of a TEAM CONTACT and  a TEAM leader
<czajkowski> and then some teams have a team council
<itnet7> Yeah, That's true
<czajkowski> this leads to utter confusion
<pleia2> I bet
<czajkowski> we have given feedback to shippit on this
<czajkowski> asking for some fields not to be made mantatory like for example state, or zip/postal code
<czajkowski> as some counteries do not have this
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> and it messes up shipping
<czajkowski> so we do give feedback as much as possible
<itnet7> they have worked hard at correcting the issues once they are aware of them!!
<czajkowski> nods
<pleia2> so, how do we get more loco teams blogging/writing/cheering about the awesome stuff they do so the whole community can see? :)
<czajkowski> we we had hoped team reports would help there
<czajkowski> at least to give us an insight reguarly but many dont do this and would like better intergration into loco.u.c which has been promoted a lot
<pleia2> team reports in general are in a pretty sad state, very few teams across the ubuntu community do them anymore
<itnet7> pleia2: as far as I can see, maybe we can indvidually encourage when we here some of the great things that teams are doing
<czajkowski> itnet7: +1
<itnet7> *hear
<pleia2> that'd be good
<czajkowski> some of the re approval applications I've seen are mind blowing
<czajkowski> it's amazing
<beuno> and come out of the blue!
<itnet7> They have been great, and when teams take their time it makes the process go much smoother
<beuno> you suddenly hear about amazing events
<pleia2> maybe use the loco council blog if they need a place to blog to? "guest post from the great columbian team!" or somesuch
<itnet7> pleia2: that sounds like a good idea!
<YokoZar> czajkowski: ~shipit forms, I think there's "some solution" out there that knows exactly which countries need states/postal codes, and in those cases exactly how many digits they should be
<JoseeAntonioR> erm, about the CD stuff, it's recurrent in South America (as far as I know), and some countries didn't get them out even if they paid their taxes, although a lot of them did get them paying
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012 as an example, highlight they have 27 Ubuntu members
<pleia2> gosh :)
<czajkowski> pleia2: indeed right!
<czajkowski> so maybe we should highlight these teams each month on the blog
<pleia2> yeah, that'd be really great, it's very inspiring
<czajkowski> ok
<pleia2> sounds like things are mostly going well anyway, anything the CC can do to help at all?
<czajkowski> itnet7: we shall do that
<czajkowski> no I think we do need as a council to work better on feedback and moving things on ourselves
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> we have ideas and plans, and then we dont seem to be able to push past the discussion to make a decison as we have lots of opinions
<czajkowski> which I find frustrating
<itnet7> agreed
<itnet7> but it seems that it's usually only contrversial type decisions
<czajkowski> itnet7: well thats true indeed
<itnet7> I think for the most part we are working well, on day to day stuff
<itnet7> it's just the big items really
<czajkowski> but thats sometimes where the bullet has to be bitten or we end up going around in circles hitting the same issue every few months
<itnet7> Yeah, I agree
<czajkowski> itnet7: aye so we do work well we just could do with a bit more commuicating
<czajkowski> I know timezones and personal lives are rather busy at times
<pleia2> I know you guys were doing hangouts (and inspired CC to as well), still doing those at all?
<czajkowski> pleia2: we cant seem to find a suitable timezone one that isn't a weekend :/
<czajkowski> so no
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> which is a shame as they do work as the CC can tell to improve communication, even if the hangout is only 15 mins
<pleia2> yeah, just helps us pick up loose ends
<itnet7> czajkowski: we can probably work on trying to make the time, as I think the few I was able to attend were worthwhile
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> anyone any other comments.
<pleia2> thanks for coming :)
<czajkowski> cheers
<itnet7> Thanks pleia2 !
* czajkowski changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<czajkowski> anything else folks ?
<pleia2> a few updates
<czajkowski> #topic updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: updates
<czajkowski> pleia2: you have the floor
<pleia2> the forums council brought to our attention the needed upgrade to 4.x of the forums software, so czajkowski followed up on the ticket and things are moving forward
<pleia2> it's now tossed out to the community to help write the SSO plugin: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2012/07/31/ubuntu-forums-needs-single-sign-on-again/
<pleia2> the upgrade is required for new spam prevention tools, forums staff are killing themselves manually managing spam right now :\
<pleia2> so help is appreciated!
<czajkowski> indeed, we have loads of developers surely someone can help
<pleia2> the CoC rewrite is still pending, when dholbach comes back from vacation he'll merge in some changes we discussed and we'll do another call to the community for final feedback once we've gone through it again
<pleia2> I think that's it :)
<czajkowski> okie dokie
<czajkowski> thank for coming folks
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 17:29:47 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-17.00.html
<czajkowski> nicely done :)
<pleia2> I'll update the wiki and meeting minutes in a bit
<pleia2> looks like the membership board is next on the agenda, so I'll drop them an email too
<czajkowski> lovely jubbly
<czajkowski> right dinner time
<czajkowski> toodles
<s-fox> ping s9iper1 :)
<s9iper1> hey s-fox
<s9iper1> shall we start ?
<s-fox> s9iper1,  not yet, you're the only candidate here at the minute :)
<s9iper1> ok
<s-fox> hello Fitoschido  :)
<micahg> it's also not 22:00 UTC yet :0
<s-fox> Ping Fitoschido
<Fitoschido> HI
<Fitoschido> !
<Fitoschido> I'm her
<Fitoschido> e
<iulian> OK, who's here from the board?
<s-fox> o/
<beuno> o/
<micahg> o/
<iulian> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 22:04:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> i count 3 iulian  ;)
<iulian> We're 4, aren't we?
<s-fox> oh never mind. it is late here. i am tired ;)
<s-fox> /ignore me
<iulian> OK, I forgive you this time.
<s-fox> :)
 * s-fox gives iulian  a cookie :)
<iulian> Wait, it's late here as well. :)
<iulian> OK, enough chatting.
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards.
<Fitoschido> hi all!
<iulian> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<s9iper1> hello
<iulian> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<iulian> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote
<iulian> s9iper1: You're the first one on the list. Fire away!
<s9iper1> ok thank s
<s9iper1> Hello  every body!
<s9iper1> This is bilal shahid Irc nickname S9iper1.i am an Information Technology student :).Here is my launchpad id link https://launchpad.net/~s9iper1
<s9iper1> and here is my wiki page link
<s9iper1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/BilalShahid
<s9iper1>  and further i and my friends arranged a precise release party here here are some pictures of them
<s9iper1> http://s9iper1.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post_9007.html
<s9iper1> http://s9iper1.blogspot.com/2012/05/blog-post_14.html
<beuno> I get a 503
<beuno> ah, there you go
<beuno> nice
<iulian> Questions?
<iulian> micahg, s-fox, beuno?
<s-fox> s9iper1,  do you have any plans for next  6 months with ubuntu  involvement ?
<s9iper1> yes of course i mostly spend my free time with bugs and ubuntu
<iulian> s9iper1: Are you going to focus just on triaging bugs?
<s9iper1> no i am also working on php web development these days
<iulian> I mean, within Ubuntu.
<s9iper1> ok  for that i will focus on python
<s9iper1> and kenvandine is also helping me for that
<s9iper1> next my aim will be involve in bazar branches
<iulian> OK, so that would be going towards MOTU perhaps?
<s9iper1> yeah
<iulian> Great, thanks s9iper1.
<s-fox> i don't have any more questions
<iulian> No more questions from me.
<s9iper1> ok
<iulian> #voters micahg s-fox beuno iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: beuno iulian micahg s-fox
<s-fox> +1
<iulian> #vote Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<micahg> +1 bug triage is very important and we need more people helping with this
<meetingology> +1 bug triage is very important and we need more people helping with this received from micahg
<iulian> +1 Keep up the good work.
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the good work. received from iulian
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant s9iper1 Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> s9iper1: Congratulations.
<s-fox> Congrats :)
<s9iper1> thanks  all of you
<micahg> thanks for all your hard work s9iper1 and please keep it up :)
<s-fox> thank  you for your efforts
<iulian> Fitoschido: Hello there. Could you please introduce yourself?
<Fitoschido> Hi, I'm Adolfo Jayme Barrientos, a Ubuntu Spanish Translator since 2010
<Fitoschido> I also contribute to other free software project such as Xfce and The Document Foundation but I spend the most of my free time in Ubuntu. It's a very welcoming project for me
<iulian> Nice to hear that.
<Fitoschido> I've also participated in Ubuntu Mexico meetings last year, and gave a quick course via IRC on translating Ubuntu to other new Ubuntu users wishing to contribute to the project
<Fitoschido> Even when I'm primarily involved in l10n, I'm also a Bug Squad member. I have a few Bazaar branches, but I'm (still) not a coder. I'm still learning ;-)
<Fitoschido> Launchpad: http://pad.lv/~fitoschido
<Fitoschido> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fitoschido
<micahg> Fitoschido: is there a reason you were only able to get one testimonial?
<Fitoschido> I haven't asked other people to do that for me, I guess.
<beuno> Fitoschido, so, tell us a bit more about what you do
<beuno> your wiki page is a bit thin on details
<Fitoschido> Well, as I already said, I'm a translator. Primarily to Spanish, and a bit of Catalan.
<beuno> Fitoschido, so how often do you translate?  any particualr focuses?
<Fitoschido> I translate every week. I focus on GNOME, but I've also contributed to LibreOffice and Xfce
<Fitoschido> I've recentrly translated many Ubuntu App Showdown apps as well
<Fitoschido> This is my recent activity: https://translations.launchpad.net/~fitoschido/+activity
<beuno> cool
<iulian> Any more questions for Fitoschido?
<beuno> Fitoschido, how long have you been translating?
<s-fox> i have no more questions
<Fitoschido> My first Launchpad contribution was in 2010-09-26
<Fitoschido> before that I translated some Windows software, but that does not count ;-P
<Fitoschido> I'm an Ubuntu user since 9.04
<Fitoschido> and became addicted :)
<iulian> Fitoschido: OK, thanks for the information.
<iulian> #vote Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Fitoschido Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<iulian> Fitoschido: Welcome aboard!
<s-fox> congratulations Fitoschido
<Fitoschido> Thanks a lot dudes! :)
<iulian> Is xander21c here?
<s-fox> JoseAntonioR are you here?
<JoseAntonioR> I'm here, on his behalf
<s-fox> why?
<JoseAntonioR> Let me explain
<beuno> JoseAntonioR, so, that won't work
<JoseAntonioR> beuno: one sec
<JoseAntonioR> Well, xander21c membership expired a few days ago, and he would like to get it back up, the problem is he won't be able to attend any meetings until he's back home (on a trip right now)
<JoseAntonioR> So, this is basically a request to get membership back-up
<beuno> JoseAntonioR, yeah, that's not a problem
<beuno> no need to come to a meeting
<beuno> what's his launchpad id?
<JoseAntonioR> xander21c
<iulian> https://launchpad.net/~xander21c
<beuno> JoseAntonioR, ok, I'll get that sorted out for you now
<iulian> That's fine then. We'll reactive it now.
<JoseAntonioR> thanks, guys!
<iulian> reactivate even.
<iulian> Thanks!
<iulian> s-fox: You can go to bed now. :)
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 22:36:12 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-22.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-02-22.04.html
<s-fox> bye
<Fitoschido> bye! and thanks!
<s9iper1> good bye and thanks all !!
<JoseAntonioR> congrats, Fitoschido
<Fitoschido> JoseAntonioR: thanks! I'm very excited
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-03
<smartboyhw> Is it that at 15:00 UTC there is a Ubuntu Quantal Meeting
<smartboyhw> ?
<tumbleweed> the release meeting is at 15:00 UTC, yes
<smartboyhw> Thanks...
<tumbleweed> 2:10 away...
<smartboyhw> Is there a Quantal meeting coming in 13 minutes?
<brendand> smartboyhw, yes
<smartboyhw> Thanks
 * skaet waves
<smartboyhw> Oh, a meeting!
<smartboyhw> Him skaet
<smartboyhw> Hi skaet
<skaet> hiya smartboyhw
 * stgraber waves
<smartboyhw> Hi stgraber
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug  3 15:00:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-03
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Quantal FeatureFreeze
<skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
<skaet> 12.04.1
<skaet>     2012/08/09: KernelFreeze, LanguageTranslationDeadline, SRU Fix Validation Testing
<skaet>     2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze
<skaet>     2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/07/20 -  3001 (was 2966  (two weeks ago):   Weâve gotten behind the trendline for some of the projects.    There are only 3 weeks left until FeatureFreeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/milestone-12.04.1.html
<skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly Status Received:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001645.html - HW Cert - brendand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001648.html - Security - mdeslaur
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001650.html - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001651.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001653.html - Edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001655.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001656.html - Desktop - seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001661.html - Server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001662.html - Linaro - rsalveti
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001663.html - Xubuntu - astraljava
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001664.html - Kubuntu - Riddell
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001665.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2012-August/021467.html - Kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001666.html - Foundations - ogra_
<skaet> ???  - QA - jibel or gema
<skaet> .
<skaet> Meeting conventions:
<skaet> To make this meeting efficient for everyone (and hopefully reduce confusion), would appreciate it if everyone tried to follow these conventions.
<skaet>     At start of meeting, please wave or say hi so we know you're present and paying attention.
<skaet>     Once the topic, becomes Question and Answer Session,
<skaet>         When you have a new question to ask, or thread of conversation to start off, please raise your hand "o/"
<skaet>         If your just asking a follow up question/commenting on the current open question - just type.
<skaet>         When possible, please target your questions to specific individuals by using their nick. Others should feel free to comment if they have information to add to the discussion.
<skaet>         When you've finished your comments on the current question/discussion topic, please use the convention ".." so we know you're done, and we can move on to the next queue'd up question (as indicated by a 'o/').
<skaet> I'll try to call on folks in the order I see "o/"s showing up after the Q&C session starts.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> #topic Questions and Comments
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Questions and Comments
<seb128> hey
<ogra_> skaet, gema just say everything is fine (they are on the QA sprint atm)
<seb128> (sorry, a bit late)
<ogra_> *says
<skaet> thanks ogra_
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> hiya seb128,  who else is here?
<gilir> hi
<arosales1> hello
<mdeslaur> o/
 * ogasawara waves
<stgraber> o/
<roadmr> hey!
<smartboyhw> Hi
<skaet> welcome.  :)
<smartboyhw> Thanks
<balloons> hello
<smartboyhw> Hey balloons!
<popey> o/
<tumbleweed> hi
<brendand> hi
<jocarter> howdy
<skaet> ok,   I'll start into some of the questions I've got queued up,  but at any time raise hand now,  and I'll call on you for yours.
<Riddell> jocarter: new nick?
<skaet> brendand, roadmr - could you start smoke testing of 12.04.1 images and let us know which of the currently open certification bugs are not resolved early next week?   (use one of daily images built off of -proposed)
<roadmr> skaet: yes, we can do that.
<skaet> Thanks roadmr!  :)
<skaet> ..
<brendand> skaet, smoke testing we can do for sure. bug verification maybe not
<skaet> brendand,   can the verification focus on 12.04.1 at least,  so we can get those images as clean as possible?
<ogra_> o/
<brendand> skaet, we can try our best
<skaet> Thanks brendand.   Will follow up with you early next week then.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> go ogra_
<ogra_> wasnt popey before me ?
<ogra_> (but i can indeed) ...
<ogra_> ogasawara, any status update about the omap4 3.5 kernel ?
<ogra_> ..
 * skaet  was assuming he was just saying hello,  but if popey's got a question,  please go after ogra_  ;) 
<ogasawara> ogra_: last update I had from ppisati was that he was still working on the rebase
<popey> sorry, I was saying hello :)
<ogasawara> ogra_: he is off today, but I will follow back up with him monday
<ogra_> k, would be good to have it before FF so we can have some testing before the kernel freeze
<ogra_> great, thx
<ogasawara> ogra_: ack
<ogra_> ..
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> arosales - re: MIR backlog,  are they all quantal specific?   are there folks working them or is it a limbo situation?
<arosales> I think a few were juju related that may help elevaitate
<arosales> yes, and quantal specific
<arosales> I think they are being worked, just a comment on the larger queue size
<skaet> gotcha,   certainly want to make sure they're all resolved before we get to feature freeze.
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for other "o/" before going back to her set.
<skaet> popey - is there anyone working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1008918?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1008918 in unity (Ubuntu Quantal) "wrong display in dashboard after first time clicking the dashboard button" [High,Confirmed]
 * popey clicks
<skaet> also for your clicking pleasure...   Would it be possible to get the importance set on:  bug: 950160 - its on our commited to be fixed list, and want to make sure that it is indeed committed to be fixed, and which version drop we should expect it.
<skaet> Also,  are bug 1028828, bug 1028859, bug 1028972 going to be fixed soon?
<popey> skaet, not that I'm aware of, I will find someone though
<popey> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028828 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "the weekday name: "SUN, MON, TUE, WED, THU, FRI, SAT" is not displayed correctly in the date and time window" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028859 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "a "Invalid UTF 8" appears at the place where the time should be displayed in the notification area after some config in date&time setting" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028859
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028972 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "Empty session menu in ltsp client" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028972
<popey> bug
<popey> bug 950160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 950160 in OEM Priority Project precise "Unity blocks other programs from binding globally to Super+* or Alt+* (* = any key)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950160
<skaet> unity and compiz bug tasks on that one don't have prioirity...
<popey> skaet, I'll raise those with the devs..
<popey> ..
<skaet> thanks popey.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> balloons - did you see the blog entry in Linaroâs status?  might be useful for your WIKI page? http://jcrigby.blogspot.fi/2012/07/usb-booting-panda-board.html
<balloons> skaet, looking now
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> that method still has massive bugs and only works with one panda version as described
<balloons> ohh.. neat
<skaet> ogra_,  ah....  so we'll expect your blog post to be even more helpful then...  ;)
<ogra_> (we have been working with linaro to fix these during the qa sprint since we use the same thing for the automated arm image testing now, but the code hasnt landed in a package yet)
<balloons> is this an alt technique or the ideal way to do things going forward?
<ogra_> (as skaet noted, i'll blog about that the next days, hopefully the fixes are landed in the usbboot binary too then)
<ogra_> balloons, i would only use it if you actually see benefit from it
<smartboyhw> This method is dangerous, balloons
<ogra_> i.e. for the automated image testing we use it to dd an image to SD from the tftpbooted initrd ....
<ogra_> if you cant use the SD or want to avoid using it its the right thing ...
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> thanks ogra_
<ogra_> (as soon as there is a bootloader on the SD the ROM code will ignore usb though)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> scott-work - what is the status of 12.04.1 looking like?   can someone do a smoke test of the images in Precise Daily  this next week to make sure no surprises.
<scott-work> yes, we can do that skaet
<skaet> scott-work, coolio.   Thanks!  :)
<skaet> ..
<scott-work> ..
<skaet> astraljava,   will Xubuntu be able to do some smoke testing for 12.04.1 from the dailies as well?
<skaet> hmm... not sure if astraljava is around.
<smartboyhw> He hasn't gone away or idle..
<skaet> oh well,  moving on.
<smartboyhw> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> fabo,   is there any ETA on the PVR driver?
 * skaet reaching the end of her list.....   any one else have questions?   please o/ if so.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> balloons,  any surprises or concerns coming in from the daily testing for either quantal or precise?
<balloons> skaet, nothing beyond the arm images
<balloons> there on my to test list today.. the community folks haven't gotten any dailies to run since alpha 3
<smartboyhw> Really , balloons?
<ogra_> balloons, the arm images are fine ... its the pvr driver that makes it fail
<balloons> ogra_, :-)
<ogra_> (selecting "install third party drivers"
<ogra_> )
<ogra_> i commanetd on the bug and pointed it to the right package
<ogra_> *commented
<balloons> ok, I'll give it a whirl and see myself.. Thanks for commenting
<ogra_> (we just did serveral automated server installs over here at the QA sprint btw, generally everything should eb installable)
<ogra_> ..
<balloons> ogra_, ohh , yes I had someone interested in arm server stuff
<balloons> there isn't a walkthrough on the wiki for it yet
<balloons> I should put one together.. but I haven't done it yet
 * ogra_ points to the server team ;)
<skaet> balloons,  where's the wiki again?
<ogra_> oh... another note ... since we changed the image format completely i will need to update the general install instructions for arm ... will do that next week once i'm back in a normal timezone
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP
<ogra_> (for all omap images)
<ogra_> server install is maintained as a subset by the server team though
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> thanks ogra_
<skaet> ..
<fabo> skaet: our PPA has been updated. I'll check with Ricardo for ETA.
<fabo> ..
<arosales> ogra_:  Is there a particular ARM image that is lacking in the documentation on the wiki?
<skaet> thanks fabo :)
<ogra_> apart from having to dd the image to SD card instead of writing an iso to CD or USB the install is 100% identical to x86 nowadays though
<balloons> ogra_, ahh ok.. I'll go through and see if I can get it to work.
<ogra_> ..
<balloons> looks like we just need to add quantal links to that
<ogra_> (since we have identical images now)
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> arosales, we dont have preinstalled anymore ...
<ogra_> (just using the same ones as x86 now)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ok,  looks like end of meeting time.
<skaet> just want to restate that we're getting a bit behind on our work items.
<skaet> so a bit of extra attention to figuring out what is still going to be possible,  and what's definitely not going to make it for quantal would be appreciated.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Thanks roadmr, brendand, stgraber, jocarter, Riddell, ogra_, seb128, popey, smartboyhw, gilir, arosales, mdeslaur, tumbleweed, fabo, balloons, ogasawara
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug  3 15:37:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-03-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-03-15.00.html
<stgraber> thanks!
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<arosales> skaet: thanks
<balloons> skaet, ty
<smartboyhw> Thanks
<roadmr> thanks skaet
<fabo> thanks skaet
<smartboyhw> Good job, skaet
<smartboyhw> balloons, can we talk now?
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<SeoService> Need backlinks for your website to reach 1st page of Google? http://bit.ly/QHDOpB
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-04
<Maiz_en_Heces> anybody here?
<smartboyhw> No meetings...Well
<smartboyhw> The channel should be idle today, right?
<tumbleweed> smartboyhw: see the schedule in the topic
<smartboyhw> I know, so it should be idle. No meetings....
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-29
<xnox> barry, yes i am afk. And ev that's a really long post =)
 * xnox googles for IRC logs to EPUB converter.....
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in 8 minutes
<Laney> yes google reminded me
<barry> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> o/
<barry> ScottK is scheduled to chair, but since i'm next up, i'll do it if he's not around
<barry> (and if we have quorum ;)
<stgraber> I'm sort of around
<tumbleweed> o/
<stgraber> (likely to disappear in a few minutes and can't really type much)
<Laney> do we have anything to meet about anyway?
<Laney> you all saw the TB proposal is in
 * ScottK is here now
<barry> Laney: no applicants, so may be not.
<ScottK> # startmeeting
<bdrung> ScottK: no space
<ScottK> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 29 15:06:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is ScottK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ScottK> #topic PPU changes
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPU changes
<ScottK> Seems like the TB discussion is going fine.
<ScottK> Anyone have comments in it?
<Laney> nope, seems alright to me
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK moves on.
<ScottK> # AOB
<ScottK> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ScottK> Anyone got anything else?
<stgraber> nope
<barry> please consider the sweetshark revote.  i'd still like to conduct this in 2 days, so let us know if you need more information
<tumbleweed> I expect we're mostly waiting for more information from bdrung
<ScottK> Yes.  It seemed like the feedback was a little general.
<bdrung> you were CCed on all recent communication with him.
 * ScottK doesn't recall seeing any.
<barry> please follow up to that thread
<ScottK> Let's take it to email.
<ScottK> Anything else?
<bdrung> (just three mails for the [initial] libreoffice 4.1 review)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 29 15:12:28 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-29-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-29-15.06.html
<bdrung> (which reminds me to finish it)
<barry> cheers
<ScottK> And you get 48 minutes of your day back ...
<Laney> thanks
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<chrisccoulson> o/
 * jdstrand is here (but laggy)
<sarnold> hello
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 29 16:34:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdeslaur> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<mdeslaur> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<mdeslaur> thanks to Felix Geyer (debfx) for his help on security updates for the community supported baz package last week.
<mdeslaur> thanks to Luke Faraone (lfaraone) for his help on security updates for the community supported openafs package last week.
<mdeslaur> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: want to try going first?
<mdeslaur> lag lag lag lag
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: time's up, you lose
<mdeslaur> So, I'm in the happy place this week
<chrisccoulson> pub?
<mdeslaur> I'll be heading out to Lost Wages for black hat
<mdeslaur> so I'll be offline most of the time
<mdeslaur> and today I'm preparing my travel laptop
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> I can go now
<sbeattie> jdstrand: go ahead
<jdstrand> I'm on triage
<jdstrand> I have a couple of pending updates that I will be getting to
<jdstrand> I patch piloted last week, but now up for it again
<jdstrand> people are sprinting in IoM, so I will be doing things surrounding that (ie, attending remotely)
<jdstrand> I have several audits to get to
<jdstrand> and also monthly planning
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie: if you guys can email what you have for an initial set of perms, I'll try to play with those this week too
<jdstrand> ..
<sbeattie> jdstrand: will do
<sbeattie> I'm in some combination of the happy place and apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I'll also be at black hat with mdeslaur
<sbeattie> and then next week I'm on holiday
<sbeattie> I need to do some travel prep today as well as a couple of apparmor ubuntu-sdk things (the perms things jdstrand mentioned place a couple more fixes to the click-apparmor hook)
<sbeattie> and that's it for me. tyhicks?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: ping me for uploading click-apparmor to saucy-- though I will probably wait til after the demo to do it
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, that's fine.
<tyhicks> I'm going through the dbus and apparmor patches, cleaning them up if necessary, sending them upstream and then making sure that they are in good shape for uploading to saucy
<jdstrand> (unless the fixes are really important for the demo)
<tyhicks> I'm through all of the tough patches, so I plan on having everything on the list and updated dbus and apparmor packages landed in saucy this week
<mdeslaur> nice!
<tyhicks> I'm still trying to get to my content-hub work items. I think that'll happen towards the end of the week.
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I've got a saucy-unstable (3.11-rc3) kernel apparmor sync to test, and issue a pull request for
<jjohansen> the apparmor fs pull-request for 3.12 to send upstream (this is the new interface with rcu and all the fs changes going upstream, and gets us sync up to the in dev labeling patches)
<jjohansen> I'll take a look at the latest apparmor dbus patches so we can get them merged, and merge those against my own patchset so I can get a second revision of those out
<jjohansen> then I'll get to my regular apparmor work items for the week
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; up first is patch review of tyhicks's latest bundle, then onto MIR audits, and I'm again hopeful for getting perhaps two or three done this week, always the optimist in the face of facts.. :)
<sarnold> oh yes, and once again, if sbeattie and I get some free time at the same time, apparmor 2.8.2, but again, since nothing is blocking on that, it .. might fall through the cracks again.
<mdeslaur> hehe
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn
<chrisccoulson> yo
<chrisccoulson> so, last week we had a discussion with stakeholders about oxide
<chrisccoulson> i managed to get it working too :)
<mdeslaur> \o/
<sarnold> woo :)
<chrisccoulson> (not sure if everyone saw the video)
<chrisccoulson> had an interesting discussion about requirements for online-accounts as well
<chrisccoulson> this week, i shall be mostly working on the same (and getting firefox beta up-to-date, which i've let slip a little bit the last couple of weeks)
<chrisccoulson> (firefox 23 release is next week)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<mdeslaur> cool
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<mdeslaur> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/feh.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyrad.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phppgadmin.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-openid.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mednafen.html
<mdeslaur> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<mdeslaur> zzzz
<mdeslaur> Thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 29 16:51:28 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-29-16.34.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-29-16.34.html
<sarnold> thanks mdeslaur :)
<jdstrand> thanks mdeslaur :)
<sbeattie> thanks mdeslaur
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-30
<Daviey> o/
<adam_g> o/
<Daviey> zul: Are you the chair?
<zul> i dunno am i?
<Daviey> (yes)
<davmor2> Daviey: no he's a person like the rest of us :P
<arosales> HellHello
<Daviey> davmor2: Try sitting on him, he is super comfy
<arosales> Hello, I mean :-)
<zul> ok just a sec
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 30 16:02:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<zul> so welcome to the ubuntu server meeting
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> ACTION: rbasak to land delta report to lp:ubuntu-reports, Daviey to deploy.
<zul> rbasak:  here?
<zul> i guess not
<Daviey> Ooo
<zul> ACTION: arosales to review Juju blueprints with owners after OSCON.
<Daviey> Erm, it's Sort of done.
<zul> arosales: ^^^
<arosales> zul,  still in progress
<Daviey> delta report is deployed, but blocked on IS ticket to open a firewall egress access
<rbasak> Sorry
<rbasak> What Daviey said :)
<zul> Daviey/arosales/rbasak: okies
<zul> moving on
<zul> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Saucy Development
<zul> Daviey:  do you want to take this?
<Daviey> zul: Would rather support..
<Daviey> (sort of OTP)
<zul> Daviey:  k
<zul> so
<zul> #link Release Tracking Bug Tasks - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<zul> 1199791	still needs to be done
<zul> #1203828 is in progress
<zul> #1170393 is new one
<zul> i guess i can look at it
<zul> "quantum services should be respawned by upstart if necessary"
<zul> and http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<zul> looks like we are making progress
<zul> anything else ro bring up?
<zul> arosales: ^^^
<zul> if not we can move on
<zul> ok then
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> any events coming up?
<zul> oscon was last week
<zul> ODS is still coming up in november
<zul> any other events or are people still sleeping?
<zul> ah hah sleeping!
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<arosales> zul, nothing extra to bring up
<zul> hi plars any update?
<plars> zul: I think psivaa is actually covering now. Unless he has something though, I don't at the moment
<zul> hi psivaa  any update
<psivaa> plars: zul: sorry, no updates from our side
<zul> any quetsions for psivaa?
<psivaa> i'll be attending from now on btw
<zul> ack ill update the agenda after the meeting
<psivaa> thanks
<zul> ok next i guess is
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * smb tries to actually cover, too
<zul> hi smb any updated
<smb> I thought to be quite close on having Xen 4.3 mostly working but found today some very weird behavior of the old stack that was pretty sure working before (meaning Raring). And the more I dig, there more I am in the lands of heck. Beside that I will be in London from Wednesday to join our kernel-team sprint.
<zul> updates even
<zul> smb: cool!
<zul> xen is fun
<zul> not really
<zul> any questions for smb?
<smb> zul, plenty of not fun
<zul> smb: better you than me
<zul> if no more questions...
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing new to report. Any questions for me?
<zul> rbasak:  if a tree falls in a forest..
<rbasak> ...just bring up another tree. This is the cloud, after all.
<zul> no questions for rbasak i take it
<zul> damn straight
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<zul> anyone has anything to bring up
<zul> well then
<zul> same time next week
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 30 16:21:20 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-30-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-30-16.02.html
<Daviey> thanks zul
<zul> yeah no problem
<arosales> zul, thanks for chairing
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-07-31
<ev> Hi guys.
<ev> Steve is off today and has asked me to step in.
<ev> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 31 15:00:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is ev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<ev> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<ev> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev cjwatson xnox)
<ev> stgraber xnox cjwatson doko ev barry jodh
<doko> slangasek not here?
<cjwatson> He's at the Isle of Man client sprint and unavailable
<stgraber> xnox: I'm on vacation, so it's your turn
<ev> oh right, apols :)
<xnox> * Last week wed-sun was on holiday
<xnox> * From the week before, android and blobs are packaged and uploaded
<xnox>   into ubuntu universe.
<xnox> * M.I.R. for above is filed, and in-progress (need to answer security
<xnox>   enquiries).
<xnox> * TODO: automate "binNMU"/daily building of android package (such that
<xnox>   I'm not the only one who can/knows how to upload it)
<xnox> * Working on sorting out btrfs mounting/fsck once and for all & get
<xnox>   btrfs in sync between Debian & Ubuntu. Should be fine with -5
<xnox>   update.
<xnox> * Working on sorting out ubiquity: outstanding merge proposals & U1
<cjwatson> xnox: Ah, you sorted out your internet troubles then
<xnox>   login page.
<xnox> * Verified pending-removal SRU bugs for mdadm & partman-lvm
<xnox> * Trying to help resolve bug 1197766, initially provided workaround
<xnox>   was not sufficient
<ubottu> bug 1197766 in OEM Priority Project "Different partition layout after recovery with keep home partition" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197766
<xnox> ..
<xnox> stgraber: touche =) i was out last week ;-)
<xnox> cjwatson: yes. they trigger full line resynchronisation via automated telephone option selection. Which got my line back up.
<xnox> so was only a short down-time <<30minuts.
<cjwatson> Release engineering sprint.  Spent most of the second half of the week implementing build cancellation:
<cjwatson>  - https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/buildstatus-aborted/+merge/176990
<cjwatson>  - https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad-buildd/fix-abort/+merge/177003
<cjwatson>  - https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/buildmaster-cancel-properly/+merge/177580
<cjwatson>  I'm still awaiting some reviews and will probably need to make some changes, but the bulk of it is done.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package:
<cjwatson>  - Various minor tweaks to prepare for the IoM demo.  Bug 1204523 was especially entertaining to fix.
<ubottu> bug 1204523 in click (Ubuntu) "Click packages can't be installed from directories not viewable by the clickpkg user" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204523
<cjwatson>  - Fixed rather embarrassing Unicode support failures.
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup:
<cjwatson>  - Bent juju-core to my will to bootstrap a new build farm, after the Canonistack LCY02 instance-deletion instance.
<cjwatson>  - Tried to get some saucy builds working.  Currently blocked on some tail-ends of toolchain rebootstrapping, but should be able to start helping out again soon.
<cjwatson> ..
<doko> - arm64 bootstrap (later more)
<doko> - MIR's
<doko> - binutils update
<doko> (done)
<ev> - I've spent much of the week continuing to get mobile error reporting up and
<ev>   running. We now have whoopsie and apport on the Touch images as well as a
<ev>   settings page for controlling reporting. I have a meeting later this week
<ev>   with Katherine to discuss enabling reporting by default.
<ev> - I've run into what looks like a race condition on whoopsie startup on the
<ev>   Touch images, which prevent it from uploading reports. I'm taking the
<ev>   opportunity to build some more tests into things like whoopsie-preferences
<ev>   (hooray for dbus-test-runner, by the way) as I get to the bottom of this.
<ev> - Work continues on the Cassandra crisis. You may have noticed that
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com is only showing data from the past week or so. We
<ev>   had to cut over to a new database. Nothing is lost. We're backing up the old
<ev>   database and will merge in the data when that is complete. If you don't
<ev> UGH. Die pidgin.
<ev> right, https://pastebin.canonical.com/95283/
<ev> done!
<barry> ev: i don't use dbus-test-runner, but i managed to finally track down a very interesting (and annoying) behavior in the underlying dbus libraries ;)
<ev> errr http://paste.ubuntu.com/5933046/ :)
<barry> image based updates: LP: #1206515; LP: #1206558; LP: #1206523; LP: #1204528; LP: #1204976; various dbus api changes for better u/i integration; upload 0.9, 0.9.1, 0.9.2
<ev> barry: oh?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206515 in Ubuntu system image "dbus service requires /tmp/system-image directory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206558 in Ubuntu system image "system-image-dbus should run on system bus" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206558
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206523 in Ubuntu system image "Need a system dbus policy for the system dbus service" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204528 in Ubuntu system image "Add DBus mocks for u/i testing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204528
<barry> other: LP: #1073919; LP: #1205505; LP: #1181814; python-webob 1.2.3-3 (py3 support) and 1.2.3-4, debian bug 717655; PEP 394 (shebang lines); emacs 24.3 bug fix and upload; python-coverage review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204976 in Ubuntu system image "Rename IsUpdateAvailable() and make it non-blocking" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204976
<ev> ah nice
<barry> in progress: LP: #1206866, system-image 0.9.3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073919 in command-not-found (Ubuntu Raring) "Crash with Python 3" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1205505 in python-gnupg (Ubuntu) "Sync python-gnupg 0.3.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1181814 in wsjt (Ubuntu) "Crash: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'isNumberType'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181814
<ubottu> Debian bug 717655 in python-webob "python-webob: Add python 3 support" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/717655
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206866 in Ubuntu system image "Dies with dotted version numbers? - TypeError: unorderable types: Image() < Image()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206866
<barry> ev: yeah, so i use $DBUS_SYSTEM_BUS_ADDRESS envar to rendezvous on a private bus...
<barry> turns out that once libdbus is intiialized, it never consults that envar again
<cjwatson> How did the image-based-updates demo go?
<ev> ha!
<barry> so you can't change it and expect the same process to rendezvous on a different bus address
<barry> cjwatson: mixed i think.  they got some weird bug that i don't understand at all but eventually got it to update and reboot
<barry> cjwatson: and of course it wfm here locally :/
<cjwatson> All the best bugs are like that
<barry> cjwatson: anyway, that's LP: #1206866, ongoing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206866 in Ubuntu system image "Dies with dotted version numbers? - TypeError: unorderable types: Image() < Image()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206866
 * barry is very happy that phablet-flash now allows --ubuntu-bootstrap and -r -2
<cjwatson> (Oh, I forgot to mention, I'm also working on implementing the "devel" series alias for saucy)
<barry> (allows you to flash to an older image)
<barry> cjwatson: nice
<barry> anyway...
<barry> done
<ev> :)
<ev> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<ev> No Brian.
<xnox> ev: paste.canonical.com instead of paste.ubuntu.com ? not using pastebinit? =)
<ev> Does anyone have bugs worth a mention?
<ev> xnox: that would've been the smart thing to do
<jodh> erm, shall I go at the end? :)
<ev> OH HAI
<ev> jodh: you're up
<cjwatson> Steve asked me to get back to bug 1065281, so I'm going to have to roll up my sleeves again on that :-/
<ubottu> bug 1065281 in OEM Priority Project quantal "Installer crashed when trying to partition 4k/4k sector hard disks" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065281
<ev> soz. I copy and pasted from when you weren't here :)
<cjwatson> But nothing interesting to talk about as yet
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - Finished the upstart-dconf-bridge and raised MP:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-dconf-bridge/+merge/177650
<jodh>   - Upstart integration tests (DEP-8):
 * ev nods
<jodh>     - Updated python Upstart test module and resubmitted MP:
<jodh>       https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/python-upstart-module/+merge/157549
<jodh>     - Spent remainder of time working on DEP-8 scripts to make use of
<jodh>       nested pristine VM which will be provided by autopkgtest
<jodh>       environment. Attempted to use NBD to mount VM disk and configure
<jodh>       in chroot but requires too many hacks. Plan is now to boot VM, ssh
<jodh>       in to configure it, reboot, then run tests, but use NBD to collect
<jodh>       results data (ongoing).
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - upstart-text-bridge simplified (local sockets only), renamed to
<jodh>     upstart-local-bridge and MP raised:
<jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-local-bridge/+merge/177027
<jodh>   - Investigated bugs 1205443 and 1202287 and merged the branch below that
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1205443 could not be found
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1202287 could not be found
<slangasek> doko: mostly not here, no
<jodh>     will hopefully resolve the issue:
<jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/quiesce-cleanup-fix
<jodh> * misc
<jodh>   - debconf/LPC presentation: ongoing updates.
<jodh> á»¬
<ev> [TOPIC] arm64 bootstrap
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: arm64 bootstrap
<barry> ev: i finally got fixed a looooongggg standing emacs bug that was annoying the crap out of me for years :)
<ev> Steve asked doko to bring us up to speed on the arm64 bootstrap
<ev> With that, I yield to doko :)
<ev> barry: :D
<doko> Aarch64 bootstrap - how we did start ...
<ev> was the fix to use Vim instead?
 * barry is not amused
<ogra_> instead ??
<doko> (just waiting between my pastes ...)
<doko> - Start with armhf. It's in the archive, we know that it does build (or not).
<doko> - Build an armhf buildd chroot entirely with cross-built packages
<doko> - Use staged builds (DEB_STAGE=stage1) to break cyclic dependencies, or not to build unnecessary/unbuildable binary packages.
<doko> - Make sure that the cross-built chroot is usable.
<ogra_> the fix always involves vim ... no matter what fix :P
<doko> - Build and package the Aarch64 cross toolchain
<doko> - Start the cross build again, targeting Aarch64
<doko> - Fix Aarch64 specific bugs during that cross-build
<doko> - Finally had a build chroot + debhelper available (April)
<doko> - Make sure that it works using the foundations model (simulator).
<doko> - Building gnu-hello takes over an hour.
<doko> we got to this state in April
<doko> - During saucy ... start building native packages (with nocheck enabled).
<doko> - Build with nocheck. Good enogh if the package builds and can be used as a b-d
<doko> - We don't have any sbuild or dep-wait information, so set a goal to build a package. Starting with ... you guess it ... the toolchain.
<doko>   - For warming up, binutils
<cjwatson> Turns out we've built the toolchain several times ;-)
<cjwatson> I think of it as a stress-test of "Reflections on Trusting Trust"
<doko>   - Build-depends: bison, flex, gettext, texinfo, dejagnu,  quilt, file, xz-utils, lsb-release, zlib1g-dev
<doko>   - Identify the b-d's which are only needed for running the tests. Here: dejagnu
<doko> cjwatson, not just the toolchain =)
<xnox> if gnu-hello takes over an hour, gcc 3 stage bootstrap took... weeks?!
<doko>   - Next eglibc .. b-d: libaudit-dev
<cjwatson> (http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html in the unlikely event anyone hasn't encountered it)
<doko>     ... audit: b-d: libkrb5-dev, libldap2-dev, libprelude-dev, and finally systemd
<doko>     crap, maybe we come back later ...
<doko>   - Next gcc ... easy as binutils
<doko>     ... wait, except for gcj and needing gtk+2.0 ...
<doko>   - There are a lot of cyclic dependencies in the gtk stack.
<doko>     - Often not clear which ones are only used for testing.
<doko>     - gtk b-d's on cups, so disable
<doko>     - disable udeb builds, halfs the build time
<doko>   - Ok, now gcc did build
<doko> - Next target: build LAMP ...
<doko>   Break it down:
<doko>   - build reduced build tools (cmake, doxygen without Qt)
<doko>   - build reduced openldap, krb5, heimdal
<doko>   - build reduced avahi
<doko>   - build databases postgres and mysql (without krb, heimdal)
<doko>   - build krb5, heimdal
<doko>   - build cyrus-sasl2
<doko>   - build apache
<cjwatson> The object of the exercise of course is to get to the point where we can start normal-ish autobuilds as quickly as possible.  Did I hear correctly that we are at the point of being able to self-host sbuild soon?
<doko>   - build php5
<doko> - Any volunteers to test if that actually works?
<cjwatson> Hm.  I'm slightly surprised we're doing LAMP in stage1.  I thought that was a stage2 target, or even something we'd want to push for early once we have builds in Launchpad
<doko> well, busted1.53 did fail to build twice, and took the simulator down
<cjwatson> Of course the bits that involve circular build-deps are worth doing in stage1
 * xnox giggles at busted1.53
<doko> it's systemd, audit and things like that needing the crypto stuff, and the crypto stuff the database stuff
<doko> so if sbuild can use dchroot, fine, else we need schroot first
<doko> - A lot of packages have b-d's for documentation builds not in build-indep ... these should be fixed.
<doko> - Finally I had to build texlive-bin. Running dh_autoreconf on 60+ configuries takes more than three days ... I start hating it.
<cjwatson> I don't believe it can
<cjwatson> dchroot is fairly dead except for the version built out of schroot
<doko> have to finish my other builds before I give it a try. but it's the last package
<doko> - And now we can build eglibc ...
<doko> - Not the only cycles. In a lot of cases you have to see where it is the easiest way to break a cycle. Don't touch "uncommon" build systems.
<doko> - Next steps: Get build-deps for qt4-x11 ready (almost done)
<doko>   - gstreamer (avoid gsl), gst-plugins (avoid external plugins)
<doko> - Have a look at gtk+3.0 (install failure, don't understand it)
<doko> - Have a look at the sound stack (pulseaudio, alsa, bluez)
<doko> - Have a look at the video stack
<doko> - Have a look at guile. The built interpreter doesn't terminate
<doko> - Ocaml not yet ported, looks like other distros are working on that
<doko> - How to build initramfs (klibc isn't yet ported, only used by Debian/Ubuntu)
<doko> - Have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/linaro-aarch64
<doko>   Help: How do identify both open and closed bugs, which either
<doko>   don't have a distro task, or have an open distro task?
<doko> - Get dep-wait information for packages without trying to build them
<doko>   Just takes too long ...
<doko> - Setup a sbuild which rebuilds already built but out-of-date packages
<cjwatson> doko: Looked at edos-distcheck?
<slangasek> doko: gtk+3.0> what fails to install?
<cjwatson> That's what Debian's wanna-build uses
<doko> not yet, chdist didn't work
<cjwatson> chdist should work given that all sbuild is doing is an apt-get invocation
<doko> slangasek, this is strange, I'll post the build log once it finishes again
<cjwatson> And all chdist does is set up apt to look at different sources
<xnox> doko: i'd also like to see gtk+3.0 fail to install errors / log.
<doko> right, but it couldn't handle the saucy archive with the [armhf] identifier
<doko> so the other blocker is guile (and we need it for autogen)
<doko> - About packaging ...
<doko>   - Unneeded build-deps, or ones which should be in build-indep
<doko>   - shell script like makefiles (configure & build in one target)
<doko>   - no support for parallel builds
<doko>   - no support for staged builds
<cjwatson> Still odd, since it doesn't parse sources.list itself :)
<cjwatson> You might need to set APT::Architecture and/or APT::Architectures in the chdist environment's apt.conf
<doko> I can give it a try later, I didn't care that much at the moment
<doko> - About using the simulator:
<doko>   - Crashes sometimes, having to restart builds
<doko>   - The time is slower in the simulator. Uploading a package to saucy, then trying to build it has interesting effects (generated files are older than the one in the package).
<doko> would love to install ntp, but that b-d's on autogen ...
<cjwatson> I was about to say :)
<doko> so, that's it what I did prepare ...
<ev> thanks doko
<slangasek> doko: how much is still being cross-built right now, vs. built under emulation?
<doko> slangasek, for stage1 now nothing. but we didn't re-build cross-built packages from stage0 yet
<doko> just when I noted issues, like the cross-built bash missing job control
 * slangasek nods
<ev> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ev> anything else?
<cjwatson> We're keeping things reasonably separate between stage0 and stage1, but I'm working on a saucy-stage0 at the moment to see if I can make some cycles a bit easier to break
<slangasek> brief update from the sprint? :)
<cjwatson> (Since the raring-stage0 generally didn't use its own output to build, so it's only the first layer in a lot of cases)
<ev> go for it :)
<barry> slangasek: please!
<slangasek> so click packages and system updates were both demoed this week
<slangasek> the click package demo went off without a hitch (beuno clearly spent more time rehearsing than I did)
<slangasek> very well-received
<slangasek> and very close to being ready to go live, which is exciting
<slangasek> the system updates demo had a few problems, but everything did come together well all things considered
<cjwatson> beuno was doing little else but rehearsing from about last Wednesday :)
<slangasek> and I've done several real upgrades through the UI, the code really does work :)
<slangasek> so kudos to everyone who was involved in those two big pieces of work
<ev> well done, guys
<slangasek> everyone here is also happy to have whoopsie landed on the images
<slangasek> though I've just noticed that with the system images, /var/crash is read-only, so we have some more fixing to do there ;)
<ev> ha!
<ev> Zarro boogs found.
<slangasek> but the unity team are eagerly awaiting having their crashes recorded
<ev> That's good to know.
<slangasek> and there's pent-up demand for both the upstart android bridge and package cross-build support (a few more packages needed to support before it meets the team's needs)
<slangasek> so they're chomping at the bit
<slangasek> in short: you guys are all doing great work, which is greatly appreciated by the rest of the team
<slangasek> so keep it up :)
<slangasek> </cheerleading>
<ev> slangasek: if you see someone responsible for the current touch experience, spawn an app and then SIGSTOP it for me
<ev> then tell them to use the launcher
<ev> I've sent a mail to phablet about it
<slangasek> ev: this demos a bug I suppose, with the launcher locking up?
<ev> slangasek: if an application hangs, there is no way out
<ev> all input seems to be channelled through the foreground application
<ev> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 31 15:37:52 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-31-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-31-15.00.html
<slangasek> ev: ok; fwiw that's probably not worth following up on, since the switch to Mir is coming RSN
<ev> thanks guys!
<barry> thanks ev! and thanks slangasek for the update
<ev> slangasek: yes, I was careful to ask if this would be a problem in Mir in th email
<jodh> thanks!
<ev> I tried to get it running on my nexus yesterday, but it sat on the bootloader image
<slangasek> ev: it *might* be, but it's just not worth tracking that kind of process interaction bug at this stage
<ev> and I only noticed that unity8 crashed by logging in and seeing a report in /var/crash for it \o/
<slangasek> we should revisit once Mir lands
<ev> slangasek: *nods*
<slangasek> ev: impressive failure handling, though; when I restart the app again, the UI is now completely out of sync with the input layer :)
<ev> lol
<ev> I hadn't noticed that
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-01
<dholbach> o/
<coolbhavi> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 17:00:54 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair dholbach
<meetingology> Current chairs: dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> welcome everybody :)
<dholbach> thanks coolbhavi for turning up
<pleia2> welcome to the Community Council meeting!
<coolbhavi> hello dholbach and the CC :)
<dholbach> pleia2, it escaped me, who apart from the Dev Advisory Team are we meeting up with today?
<pleia2> IRC Council
<dholbach> great
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> anyone from the IRCC here?
<dholbach> maybe we start off with the DAT - it must be late in India already
<coolbhavi> :) 10 30 PM here
<pleia2> #topic Catch up with the Developer Advisory Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catch up with the Developer Advisory Team
<dholbach> coolbhavi, how have things been going since the last time we met? (and I guess I'll put on my DAT hat in a bit too :-))
<Pici> dholbach: re: ircc, myself and Tm_T should be here.
<coolbhavi> dholbach, the major work was dat v2
<dholbach> Pici, great
<Tm_T> I'm somewhat around anyway (:
<dholbach> (dat v2 means the Dev Advisory Team overview page we use to track who we're in touch with, who progressed how far on their journey as a developer, etc.)
<coolbhavi> and we have a cool instance up here  http://ec2-50-19-67-12.compute-1.amazonaws.com
<pleia2> that's really cool
<dholbach> up until we mostly used Trello cards for that and a list of uploads per developer, which got slightly out of hand after a couple of cycles
<pleia2> no doubt :)
<coolbhavi> trello overflow :)
<dholbach> Andrew Starr-Bocchicchio did a PHENOMENAL job on this
<coolbhavi> dholbach, +1
<dholbach> one stumbling block we're currently having is the deployment
<dholbach> I said I was happy to host this on holba.ch
<dholbach> but just ran out of time looking into it
<dholbach> sorry about that
<pleia2> I assume it's on some random person's ec2 account?
<AlanBell> hi Pici and all
<dholbach> pleia2, yes, but it might get a bit too expensive over time
<pleia2> no doubt
<dholbach> it crunches quite a bit of LP data, etc
<pleia2> jcastro is using hpcloud for discourse, I wonder if you could get a similar deal
<dholbach> I'll have a chat with him later on
<pleia2> great
<coolbhavi> dholbach, if anyone needs hosting space m ready to give as I bought a new physical server
<dholbach> I'm no expert when it comes to these things
<pleia2> dholbach: he might make you juju deploy it
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> and "normally deploying" it is not my fortÃ© either ;-)
<dholbach> that's probably why we got stuck where we are right now
<dholbach> in between a transition where I'm blocking things :)
 * pleia2 nods
<dholbach> that's also why activity went down quite a bit
<dholbach> so we have to figure this out soon
<dholbach> I'll talk to jcastro tomorrow
<dholbach> promise! :)
<pleia2> thanks dholbach!
<dholbach> coolbhavi, we could probably also do with some restaffing
<dholbach> huats stepped down
<pleia2> coolbhavi: also, looking forward to seeing you at fosscon next week :)
<dholbach> and some other members got busy with other projects as well
<coolbhavi> dholbach, sorry here too as m sucked into HPUX and HP labs
<coolbhavi> pleia2, same here :)
<dholbach> coolbhavi, I could imagine that as soon as we set up the new tool, start using it and fixing a few bugs, we might as well train a few new contributors in the team
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes +1
<dholbach> and being on the DAT is wonderfully social task
<dholbach> so we might just want to pick and ask the right people :)
<dholbach> coolbhavi, that's something the two of us could probably look into together?
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes can send out a email reg restaffing and a dat overview
<dholbach> that'd be fantastic
<pleia2> \o/
<dholbach> shall we have a chat tomorrow after I talked to jcastro?
<coolbhavi> yes
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> I think apart from that there's not much to report - just that we should get on the tasks mentioned above quite urgently :)
<dholbach> pleia2, any more questions? :-D
<pleia2> nope, thanks coolbhavi and dholbach!
 * dholbach hugs coolbhavi
<dholbach> thanks a bunch!
 * coolbhavi hugs dholbach back 
<pleia2> #topic Catch up with the IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catch up with the IRC Council
<coolbhavi> thanks CC
<coolbhavi> :)
<Pici> Hi
<pleia2> welcome Tm_T, Pici and AlanBell!
<AlanBell> hi
<pleia2> we haven't heard much from the IRCC lately, hopefully this means all is well :)
<pleia2> any concerns, challenges, success stories you'd care to share?
<AlanBell> yeah, we have been a bit quiet
<sabdfl> o/ sorry to be late
<dholbach> hey sabdfl!
<AlanBell> I think things are generally OK, we have been missing a few meetings though
<Pici> We approved a new Ubuntu Member recently (m4v) though :)
<Pici> Long overdue
<IdleOne> YAY!
<dholbach> What's been keeping you busy since we last met? :)
<AlanBell> we are on top of most general issues like assigning cloaks, and yes, we approved M4V for membership, there are no outstanding applications
<pleia2> another "oh, they weren't already a member?" :)
<Pici> Pretty much.
<pleia2> I do notice that next cycle we will have some restaffing to do
 * AlanBell checks on launchpad
<Pici> There hasn't been many disputes that have needed the IRCC itself to intervene, which is nice.
<dholbach> great
<pleia2> that's great
<AlanBell> end of December we expire
<AlanBell> there was a bit of a dispute in the norway loco channel, but we worked with the loco leader to resolve that
<dholbach> did you have any plans or tasks from one of the last UDSes?
<Tm_T> I think one of the ongoing tasks is we should have a session or two on every cycle about IRC
<dholbach> did you get feedback in those sessions? like anything that needs changing? or are you at a stage where you take care of normal business and everything's fine? :)
<Tm_T> making us visible, so to speak
<Tm_T> dholbach: more like I think we should make them more often
<dholbach> ah, gotcha
<Tm_T> one form of communication that is
<AlanBell> we were doing new operators every UDS, in line with the dev cycle, then the UDS cycle changed a bit wiht the online UDS
<AlanBell> so, when do we start the restaffing process given that we expire at the end of the year?
<dholbach> right, that makes sense
<dholbach> like 2-3 weeks before the expiry?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing should have more info
<AlanBell> ah OK, so plenty of time still :)
<dholbach> is there any help the IRCC needs or feedback or anything else?
<Pici> The only thing I can think of is with the recent Edge announcement, we didn't have anywhere to route people initially.
<AlanBell> don't think so, and I should note that I am pretty happy about the increased communications around the Ubuntu Edge thing compared to other surprises
<AlanBell> Pici: yeah we did :)
<pleia2> that's good to hear
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> great
<Pici> AlanBell: well, we did, but I don't think we were all in the loop from the get go.  Anyway, it was much better than prior releases
<Tm_T> improvement, definitely
<Tm_T> also I liked much of the contact relating the forums incident
<dholbach> Tm_T, you mean the analysis? or the communications during the incident?
<Tm_T> communication that it happened and that it might affect irc channels by increasing traffic
<dholbach> right
<AlanBell> are the forums back to normal now? I haven't been tracking that one closely
<Pici> AlanBell: I believe so.
<Tm_T> AlanBell: up and running
<Tm_T> just that login is changed, I have two accounts now
<dholbach> yes, you log in through SSO and through some magic you can reconcile accounts
<AlanBell> ok
<Pici> We had a spike in traffic, but it wasn't as bad as I had expected.
<dholbach> I didn't check for too long how that exactly works, I must admit
<Tm_T> anyway, improvements on communication, I like
<dholbach> I'm done with questions for the IRCC - I'm very happy with the work you're doing.
<IdleOne> Would be nice to get some communication about how to reconcile the forums accounts (sorry for speaking out of turn)
<pleia2> the forums council has been handling that
<dholbach> maybe you can ping elfy about this
<AlanBell> IdleOne: it is available if you try to log on to the forums looks OK to me
<IdleOne> AlanBell: my account had a 2 added to it
<pleia2> yeah, elfy helped me out
<AlanBell> idletwo
<dholbach> :)
<Pici> pleia2: but... you normally have a 2 ;)
<AlanBell> or idlethree perhaps :)
<IdleOne> anyway, not a big deal and I'll ping elfy. thank you :)
<dholbach> perfect :)
<IdleOne> AlanBe11
<dholbach> !!
<dholbach> pleia2, sabdfl: any more questions for the IRCC from you?
<pleia2> I'm all set
<pleia2> thanks Pici, AlanBell and Tm_T (and IdleOne!)
<dholbach> not sure if we lost sabdfl
<IdleOne> :)
<Pici> You know where to find us if you need anything :)
<AlanBell> thanks o/
<dholbach> that's right :)
<Tm_T> thanks
<dholbach> thanks a bunch!
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<pleia2> does anyone have anything else?
<dholbach> I'm all set
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> meeting up with the Doc team next meeting
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 17:38:03 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-01-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-01-17.00.html
<dholbach> thanks a bunch!
<sabdfl> hi
<sabdfl> stepped afk to take a call, sorry
<sabdfl> AlanBell, you did catch that there was an announcement brewing, thanks for the nudge in that case :)
<bkerensa> #startmeeting Ubuntu 22:00 Membership Board https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A22:00
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 22:00:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is bkerensa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 22:00 Membership Board https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A22:00 Meeting | Current topic:
<bkerensa> #chair bkerensa
<meetingology> Current chairs: bkerensa
<bkerensa> #voters chilicuil PabloRubianes Pendulum cjohnston bkerensa
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes Pendulum bkerensa chilicuil cjohnston
<bkerensa> Hello All, Welcome to the August 22:00UTC Membership Board! We have two applicants today. We will hear each application in the order they were received.
<nik90> Hi
<bkerensa> hello
<nik90> Should I start?
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: are you there?
<CarlosNeyPastor> hola
<bkerensa> ok
<CarlosNeyPastor> si, estoy acÃ¡
<bkerensa> nik90: Can you briefly introduce yourself to the board?
<nik90> bkerensa: sure
<nik90> Hi everyone! This is Nekhelesh. I am an aerospace masters student studying in The Netherlands.
<CarlosNeyPastor> disculpen pero mi manejo del ingles es pobre
<nik90> In my free time, I contribute to Ubuntu by developing, triaging bug reports, blogging and supporting community members.
<nik90> You can find my wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nekhelesh%20Ramananthan
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: you will be next
<nik90> Some of my official contributions to Ubuntu including hosting a session during the Ubuntu User Day on "Switching to Ubuntu from Windows",
<nik90> creating a Ubuntu Manual for 12.04 and more recently being involved in the development of the clock core app for the Ubuntu Touch project
<nik90> I have also been blogging about my developer experiences and regular updates about the core app project development at
<nik90> http://ubuntu-touch.blogspot.nl/
 * popey is here to cheer for nik90 
 * bobweaver echos 
<popey> I have worked closely with nik90 on the core apps project. he's been professional, reliable and efficient through the whole process.
<bkerensa> nik90: your application looks great and I really like the work you are doing on Ubuntu Touch
<popey> He's been a great example of what an Ubuntu member should be.
 * nik90 feels good
<WebbyIT> I started to collaborate to Ubuntu Core Apps development few weeks ago, and I'm very thankful to nik90 , who has helped and encouraged me. I think he fully represents the Ubuntu Spirit and totally deserves the membership
<bkerensa> do any other board members have questions for this applicant?
<nik90> bkerensa: thnx
<PabloRubianes> Es really nice
<bkerensa> #vote Application of Nekhelesh Ramananthan (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nekhelesh%20Ramananthan)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Application of Nekhelesh Ramananthan (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nekhelesh%20Ramananthan)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<bkerensa> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<bkerensa> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bkerensa
<chilicuil> +1, great work
<meetingology> +1, great work received from chilicuil
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<bkerensa> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Application of Nekhelesh Ramananthan (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nekhelesh%20Ramananthan)
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bobweaver> \o/
<nik90> Wow! Thank you everyone.
<bkerensa> nik90: congratulations!
<popey> Boom!
<WebbyIT> yeah, congrats nik90 :D
<popey> Congratulations nik90
<bobweaver> congrates nik90  you deserve it
<chilicuil> welcome abroad, keep inspiring us, nik90 =)!
<nik90> thnx WebbyIT, popey, bkerensa, chilicuil, bkerensa
<nik90> It means a lot to be accepted
<bkerensa> #topic Application of Carlos Ney Pastor (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosNeyPastor)
<PabloRubianes> Congrats
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 22:00 Membership Board https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A22:00 Meeting | Current topic: Application of Carlos Ney Pastor (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosNeyPastor)
<nik90> PabloRubianes: thnx :)
<bkerensa> Is anyone here in support of CarlosNeyPastor?
<CarlosNeyPastor> disculpen pero mi manejo del ingles es pobre, si me pueden ayudar
<chilicuil> CarlosNeyPastor: si, no hay problema, presentate en espaÃ±ol
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: no problema proceda
<CarlosNeyPastor> Soy CarlosNeyPastor , soy de Uruguay
<CarlosNeyPastor> hace aÃ±os utilizo Ubuntu hace aÃ±os, trato de ayudar a las personas que estan comenzando a utulizar Ubuntu
<CarlosNeyPastor> hace un aÃ±o soy integrande del consejo de Ubuntu Uruguay
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: Â¿Puede decirnos eres un estudiante o lo que su profesiÃ³n es? Â¿Tienes un hobby?
<CarlosNeyPastor> Soy tecnico en reparaciÃ³n de PC, estoy terminando la carrera profecional la cual me falta un aÃ±o para concluirla.
<CarlosNeyPastor> Mis hobbies son ayudar a personas en los foros, hacer documentaciones de uso de cosas relacionadas con el software libre, principalmente Ubuntu
<bkerensa> excelente
<bkerensa> Do any other board members have questions?
<chilicuil> CarlosNeyPastor: hola, veo que has hecho algunos manuales para principiantes, has pensado en colaborar con doc.ubuntu-es.org ?, la ultima vez que revise hacian falta personas
<CarlosNeyPastor> Personalmente me gustaria participar en algun proyecto como por ejemplo doc.ubuntu-es.org, actualmente no dispongo de mucho tiempo como para tener una constancia, pero es algo pendiente uqe tengo
<CarlosNeyPastor> hasta el momento he relizado manuales de uso de cosas puntuales y actualmente estoy haciendo una guia de uso y configuracion de Ubuntu
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: Pues bien, parece que estÃ¡ muy dedicado a ayudar siempre que sea posible
<CarlosNeyPastor> a nivel muy basico
<bkerensa> Shall we vote?
<bkerensa> #vote Application of Carlos Ney Pastor (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosNeyPastor)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Application of Carlos Ney Pastor (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosNeyPastor)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bkerensa> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<PabloRubianes> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from PabloRubianes
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<bkerensa> +1 Espero sus continuas contribuciones! Buen trabajo!
<meetingology> +1 Espero sus continuas contribuciones! Buen trabajo! received from bkerensa
<chilicuil> +1, colaboracion extensa en varias actividade
<meetingology> +1, colaboracion extensa en varias actividade received from chilicuil
<bkerensa> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Application of Carlos Ney Pastor (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlosNeyPastor)
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<PabloRubianes> CarlosNeyPastor, vamo Uruguay noma!
<nik90> congrats CarlosNeyPastor!
<bkerensa> CarlosNeyPastor: Â¡Felicidades
<CarlosNeyPastor> Gracias!
<chilicuil> CarlosNeyPastor: felicidades!, bienvenido al club ;)
<CarlosNeyPastor> Muchas gracias!!
<bkerensa> Thanks to our applicants who are now new members and to the board members!
<chilicuil> CarlosNeyPastor: tengo entendido que Naudy tambien ha estado trabajando sobre manuales para principiantes, tal vez quieras ponerte en contacto con el
<nik90> thank you board members and all who attended
<bkerensa> Please be sure to see Membership Perks that may interest you here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<CarlosNeyPastor> chilicuil: gracias por el dato, no he podido hablar con Naudy mucho, aunque establecimos una buena relacion de amistad luego de la UbuConLA 2013
<chilicuil> CarlosNeyPastor: =)
<bkerensa> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 22:26:15 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-01-22.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-01-22.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-28
<bdrung_work> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<ScottK> Here
<bdrung_work> do we have anything on the agenda?
<xnox> hey
<bdmurray> I didn't see anything.
<bdrung_work> Kaj Ailomaa got processed last time, right?
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> yeah, Kaj was processed by e-mail and he's got upload privileges now
<bdrung_work> i really have to read my emails again (and process the backlog)
<xnox> stgraber: i have ubuntukylin seed ready. How does one make it a proper seed which is generated?
<xnox> (on people.c.c germinate output et.al.)
<xnox> or is that for some other time to ask?
<xnox> (probably out of scope for the meeting)
<Laney> doesn't seem DMBish
<stgraber> xnox: I've never added a completely new seed branch yet, cjwatson should be able to help there. Once it's on people.u.c, then Laney can probably to the change to the package-set auto-generator to pick it up, everything else (queuebot, reports, ...) will just magically work
<xnox> ack. thanks.
<jdstrand> hi!
<mdeslaur> \o
<chrisccoulson> hi
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 28 16:30:31 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> this week I am in the happy place
<jdstrand> I need to finish community work from last week
<jdstrand> I am currently doing apparmor testing
<jdstrand> and have performance reviews and openjdk updates
<jdstrand> hopefully, I'll get through all that and pick up some updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and an currently working at some eglibc updates
<mdeslaur> A.K.A FTBFS whack-a-mole
<jdstrand> :\
<mdeslaur> I have some tomcat updates to test
<mdeslaur> and will continue going down the list
<mdeslaur> I am also doing patch piloting tomorrow
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> working on testing jjohansen's stuff, particularly focused on the network bits
<sbeattie> I need to get my part of preformance reviews done, since I'm off next week
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: let me know if there's anything you want me to look at re: eglibc
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: nah, I think I've got it
<mdeslaur> thanks
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: did you manage to get trusty's eglibc build with umt?
<mdeslaur> the test suite fails for me locally, but works in the ppa
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: I'd have to look, it's been a while since I've built it on trusty
<tyhicks> I'm about to send out (probably today) the parser patches for multiple versioned policy caches
<tyhicks> all that I have left is to update parser/tst/caching.py to account for the changes
<jjohansen> oh nice
<tyhicks> yeah
<tyhicks> it is kind of a pain since the last directory in the path to the cache can now only be figured out by apparmor_parser
<jjohansen> tyhicks: ?
<tyhicks> eh, we'll talk about it elsewhere
<tyhicks> (after the meeting)
<jjohansen> ack
<jdstrand> jjohansen: wondering if there are userspace patches tyhicks could start incorporating into some test packages for the abstract mediation?
 * jdstrand should wait for jjohansen's status
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I'll drop some stuff today
<tyhicks> I think that the timeline of me finishing these patches should line up nicely with packaging up the userspace patches for abstract mediation
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
 * jdstrand asked cause I think we need to parallize anything that makes sense at this point
<jjohansen> well I'm focused on apparmor this week, more socket mediation and testing. Besides that I need to do some mucky muck HR stuff
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yep, I get that
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok, thanks
<jjohansen> so like I said, I'll drop some parser patches today, and a new kernel
<jjohansen> there are still a few issues I know about but I'll work on fixing those in parallel
<jjohansen> mostly around label replacement, and fd passing/inheritance
<jdstrand> sounds good. I just know getting it into Ubuntu is going to take some time
<jjohansen> yep
<jjohansen> thats it for me, sarnold is not here so, chrisccoulson your up
<chrisccoulson> this week I need to figure out bug 1348333 (which, thanks to some bisecting over the weekend I traced to http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/88201d0deed8, which is a fairly benign patch)
<ubottu> bug 1348333 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox 32 fails to build on Trusty x86 only" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1348333
<chrisccoulson> I'm also currently fixing bug 1347924. I'm surprised nobody has noticed this bug already
<ubottu> bug 1347924 in Oxide 1.1 "deadlock in oxide after invoking some (unrelated)c++/qt functions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347924
<chrisccoulson> other than that, it's business as usual
<chrisccoulson> oh, I'm still expecting chromium too (was hoping it would be last week, but now it's this week)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/docker.io.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/shaarli.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/nusoap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/web2ldap.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/obby.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 28 16:57:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-28-16.30.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-29
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 29 16:00:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> Who's here?
<gnuoy> o/
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> I'm here!
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> hey rbasak, gnuoy
<rbasak> I see none.
<rbasak> #topic U Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: U Development
<rbasak> Any comments? Feature freeze is August 21. It will probably start creeping up on us now.
<beisner> o/ hi
<coreycb> o/
<jamespage> debian import freeze is soonish as well
<jamespage> rbasak, do you reckon
<matsubara> o/
<rbasak> We're working on getting all the important outstanding merges done. Usually by sprinting together on Fridays in #ubuntu-server. All welcome.
<kickinz1> o/
<jamespage> that we will make the switch to 5.6 this cycle?
<jamespage> for mysql?
<rbasak> Yeah Debian Import Freeze not long away now.
<rbasak> I've been looking at mysql 5.6 today.
<jamespage> awesome
<rbasak> Any other comments?
<rbasak> The mysql conversation is proceeding btw, but I think it less likely now that the /var/lib/mysql/ change will happen this cycle (if it happens at all, as it's still under debate)
<rbasak> But we can land 5.6 in the same manner as 5.5 for now.
<jamespage> ack
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<jamespage> ^^ remember to keep your BP's updated with work-item progress and re-plan milestones as things slip (if required)
<jamespage> rbasak, sorry - thats me done
<rbasak> caribou doesn't appear to be here, so I guess we can skip that.
<rbasak> Unless anybody has anything else they'd like to bring up on this topic?
<jamespage> nope
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<rbasak> psivaa: any updates?
<rbasak> I guess not.
<psivaa> nothing from our side rbasak
<rbasak> OK, thanks!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smoser> o/
<jamespage> I have something for this section if smb or sforshee don't have
<rharper> o/
<sforshee> I don't have any updates. smb doesn't seem to be present.
<rbasak> jamespage: go ahead
<jamespage> so... this is my bad as I dropped the ball that smb started a while back
<jamespage> iscsitarget on 12.04 - dkms has been bust with HWE kernels
<jamespage> there was general consensus that backporting 14.04 version was the right way to go and some good testing from a community user
<jamespage> I've uploaded that for SRU team review today
<jamespage> apologies - that took way to long
<jamespage> bug 1262712
<ubottu> bug 1262712 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Backport iscsitarget 1.4.20.3+svn499 into Precise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262712
<rbasak> Thanks jamespage - nice to see that being fixed
<rbasak> I've also seen some discussion (eg. earlier today in #ubuntu-server) on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1346917
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1346917 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "Using KSM on NUMA capable machines can cause KVM guest performance and stability issues" [High,Fix committed]
<rbasak> I know a fix is in the works for Trusty, but hasn't landed yet.
<jamespage> that's a critical one and arges is doing a great job on driving that forwards
<rbasak> I could find the kernel SRU cadence documented from the link in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Kernel
<rbasak> Does anyone know what the schedule is currently, or better have a link to it?
<jamespage> sforshee, ^^ ?
<smoser> i always just load https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
<sforshee> I don't know where we are in the cadence for sure, I suggest asking bjf
<bjf> jamespage, rbasak, i'm currently packaging up a kernel with that fix. should be uploaded today
<bjf> jamespage, rbasak (very soon now)
<rbasak> bjf: to trusty-proposed? That's great - thanks!
<jamespage> bjf, thanks!
<rbasak> bjf: though do you know where the normal cadence is documented? That's one thing I couldn't find and wanted to point people to.
<bjf> rbasak, jamespage the plan is for it to hit -updates on Aug. 8. the day after 12.04.5
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> bjf, so it would be included in 12.04.5?
<jamespage> sorry - being dumb...
<rbasak> Sounds like it'll miss 12.04.5?
<jamespage> 12.04.5 being the 3.13 HWE release right?
<bjf> rbasak, the only way to know the dates for the next cadence is to be subscribed to kernel-sru-announce mailing list
<bjf> jamespage, will not be in 12.04.5
<jamespage> hmm
<bjf> jamespage, that's why there will be an update the next day
<jamespage> ok
<rbasak> bjf: I can point them to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-sru-announce/ I guess then - thanks!
<smoser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-sru-announce/2014-July/thread.html
<smoser> yeah, bjf. thanks for that.
<smoser> bjf, could you, or someone on your team possibly update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelUpdates to point to that mailing list ?
<smoser> i'd not seen that documented previously (but that coudl be user error)
<rbasak> Meanwhile, any other kernel-related questions or comments?
<bjf> smoser, since it's a wiki, you can do it :-)
<rbasak> smb: o/
<smb> Just about...
<rbasak> smb: we're just about to finish the kernel topic. Did you have any comments?
<smb> Just remembered
<smb> I had nothing in particular. Just for zul and hallyn about the request for libvirt stuff back to Debian
<smb> I would be interested to learn there if one of you does something (or help)
<rbasak> I guess zul and hallyn have no comment right now. Thanks smb!
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> What's coming up?
<zul> smb:  still reading the email
<rbasak> Nothing that's not already been announced I guess.
<rbasak> I mentioned before that the Canonical team have been sprinting to try and get merges done (including mentoring and sponsoring) on Fridays in #ubuntu-server.
<rbasak> If others want to join us, please do.
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jamespage> o/
<rbasak> Does anyone have anything else to bring up?
<rbasak> jamespage: go!
<jamespage> FYI there are plans to SRU docker 1.0.x to 14.04
<jamespage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docker.io/+bug/1338768
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1338768 in golang-pty-dev (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Update to 1.0.0 release" [High,New]
<jamespage> referenced from that bug is a PPA with the currently proposed backport set to support this; I'm pending review from the SRU team
<jamespage> if anyone wants to take it for a spin please do!
<rbasak> Thanks jamespage!
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be on Wed Aug 5 17:00:00 UTC 2014
<rbasak> Who'll be chairing? I'm not sure I follow the rota right now. Are we not moving it along any more?
<rbasak> So is that gauhen, or smoser?
<rbasak> Or the other way and hallyn?
<hallyn> gaughen or smoser
<smoser> yeah. it'd be me.
<rbasak> OK - thanks. gaughen or smoser then.
<smoser> i dont know how rbasak got put up there.
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 29 16:22:51 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-29-16.00.moin.txt
<smoser> but i probalby wont be availalbe, and neither will jamespage next week.
<jamespage> yah
<jamespage> have fun without us
<rbasak> OK, so gaughen or gnuoy?
<jamespage> gaughen will be out as well - so gnuoy!
<rbasak> Both tech leads gone in the same week? Whatever will we do? :-P
<gnuoy> I'll be out
<jamespage> lol
<rbasak> arosales will also be gone I'm guessing?
<rbasak> Then matsubara?
<matsubara> I'll be around
<rbasak> Can you chair next week, please?
<matsubara> Yes
<rbasak> Thanks!
<rharper> hehe
<kickinz1> thanks, rbasak
<matsubara> np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 29 17:00:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<rtg> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> #
<ppisati> doh!
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> \o/
<kamal> o/
<cking> \o
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel has been rebased to v3.16-rc7 and uploaded to the
<ogasawara> archive, ie. linux-3.13.0-6.11.  Please test and let us know your
<ogasawara> results.  I also want to mention 14.04.1 released last Thursday
<ogasawara> July 24 and 12.04.5 is scheduled to release next Thurs Aug 7.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 07 - 12.04.5 (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 21 - Utopic Feature Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Jul. 22):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Released
<bjf>   * Precise - Released
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Released
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Released
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> 14.04.1 cycle: 29-Jun through 07-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Jun   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 29-Jun - 05-Jul   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Jul - 12-Jul   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 13-Jul - 19-Jul   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> 20-Jul - 24-Jul   Release prep
<bjf>          24-Jul   14.04.1 Release [1]
<bjf>          07-Aug   12.04.5 Release [2]
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 08-Aug through 29-Aug
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          08-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 10-Aug - 16-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 17-Aug - 23-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 24-Aug - 29-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> [1] This will be the very last kernels for lts-backport-quantal, lts-backport-raring,
<bjf>     and lts-backport-saucy.
<bjf>  
<bjf> [2] This will be the lts-backport-trusty kernel as the default in the precise point
<bjf>     release iso.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 29 17:04:00 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-29-17.00.moin.txt
<arges> o/
<cking> heh
<kamal> arges, hahaha
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-07-31
 * barry waves
 * sithlord48 waves
<bhuey_> yo
<robru> meeting?
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> looks like slangasek nor cjwatson are around =)
<jodh> o/
<xnox> we could all just skive off..... =)
<jodh> cjwatson is out this afternoon.
<robru> damnit, I prepped my list for once!
<jodh> partaay y'all!
<bhuey> slangasek: was up really late last night
<bhuey> I'm starting anyways
<xnox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 31 15:07:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bhuey> don't know what the procedure is...
<xnox> #topic Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<bhuey> go ?
<bhuey> Last week
<bhuey> -change direction and abandoned the security update to 7u55-2.4.7
<bhuey> -merged debian package 7u65-2.5.1 to ubuntu utopic, merged differences into this package
<bhuey> -backported it to 12.04, 14.04 and utopic, this went well except for 12.04
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -posted test differences between various openjdk versions for regression analysis
<bhuey> -struggling to deal with 'quotes' in a call to 'configure' in the build/ directory and wondering why the build system is reverting Matthias's patches
<bhuey> -continued to debug the above
<bhuey> -get familiar with debian version 3 packaging
<bhuey> done
<bhuey> ...
<xnox> $ shuf -e jodh robru sil2100 xnox barry bmurray doko stgraber
<xnox> xnox
<xnox> barry
<xnox> jodh
<xnox> robru
<xnox> sil2100
<xnox> bmurray
<xnox> doko
<xnox> stgraber
<xnox> not as fancy.
<xnox> ..
<bhuey> whoops
<xnox> * usb-creator - formating fixes uploaded
<xnox> * mega-transition helping out tie up loose ends
<xnox> * llvm 3.5 - fixed powerpc build (committed upstream) and fixed
<xnox>   ppc64el packaging (accepted in debian). Will switch default to 3.5
<xnox>   after alpha2 freeze block is lifted. That will make temporary add
<xnox>   3.5 & 3.4 in main, until next mesa update.
 * jodh wonders who 'not as fancy' is :)
<xnox> * uploaded ubuntukylin-meta seating in NEW, but proper further seed
<xnox>   setup is still needed.
<xnox> * exit interview, and HRy things.
<xnox> * working on porting more lazr.* things to python3
<xnox> * sent rebased apt-ftpmaster generate contents only patch to mvo on
<xnox>   BTS. (To enable for it to be used, will need further patch to cronscripts)
<xnox> TODO:
<xnox> * complete more systemd/startpar tasks
<xnox> * complete lazr.*/launchpadlib ports
<xnox> ..
<xnox> barry: =)
<xnox> jodh: oh just a comment. as in it's not a one liner as it usually pasted around here.
<jodh> xnox: yeah, I'm just being silly.
<barry> phone: system-image 2.3.1.  smoke test crash investigation (LP: #1349478).  discussing jani's branches.  other stuff.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1349478 in Ubuntu system image "/usr/sbin/system-image-dbus:sqlite3.OperationalError:_check_for_update:emit_signal:UpdateAvailableStatus:__init__:__enter__:_cursor" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349478
<barry> debuntu: zope stack (all squared away now!).  gunicorn py3 package support (debian bug #756057).  testing pyvenv/virtualenv from trusty PPA.
<ubottu> Debian bug 756057 in gunicorn "gunicorn: Support Python 3" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/756057
<xnox> jodh: and it didn't suffly much, did it?!
<barry> other: dealing w/various hardware issues.  other discussions on various other topics.
<barry> ..
<jodh> * upstart
<barry> jodh: =)
<jodh> *** upstart 1.13.1-0ubuntu2 upload to fix cgmanager tests.
<jodh> * system-image
<jodh>   * Spent most of the week learning about how system image builds
<jodh>     (ongoing :)
<jodh>   * Working with mvo, cjwatson and stgraber on setting up new images.
<jodh> Î
<xnox> barry: gunicorn python3 \o/
<xnox> the all prepared robru is next =)
<barry> xnox: yep, have github pull req pending for debian maintainer.  should hopefully land soonish
<robru> * landings, landings, landings, landings!
<robru> * fixed up qtcompositor landing in ubuntu-system-settings
<robru> * learned all about Jasmine unittesting framework for JS -- very nice!
<robru> * wrote vast amounts of unit test code for both CI Train Silo Dashboard and NFSS Web UI
<robru> * attended GUADEC -- saw many talks and took lots of notes
<robru> * Several CI Vanguard shifts
<robru> * stopped some bits of CI Train from hard-coding spreadsheet column indexes, allowing greater
<robru> flexibility to change the spreadsheet in the future (in preparation for RTM)
<robru> * vast simplification of CI Train spreadsheet, dropping all stupid "silo tabs" and streamlinin
<robru> g the testing:done? setting into the pending tab, which will make the spreadsheet much easier
<robru> to navigate when RTM doubles the number of silos we have.
<robru> * various minor pre-RTM preparatory fixes & changes in CI Train
<robru> * 99 commits against the CI Train silo dashboard page. yikes! (many many many small tweaks and
<robru>  iterations, and increases in test coverage).
<xnox> awesome!
<xnox> robru: sil2100: has ci-train been tested / dry-run against rtm on dogfood?
<sil2100> xnox: doing it all the time ;)
<xnox> sil2100: awesome.
<xnox> sil2100: you are next! =)
 * slangasek waves belatedly
<sil2100> xnox: just got blocked by some firewall blockings, but now I'm unblocked again, webops helped out
<robru> xnox, sil2100 has taken charge of the ci train core. I'm mostly working on the periphery, like the dashboard and queuebot.
<xnox> #chair slangasek
<meetingology> Current chairs: slangasek xnox
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
<sil2100> - Pushing on promotion and TRAINCON-0 issues
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Decoupling prod from preprod, now for testing preprod custom branches can be used
<sil2100>   * Small enablements related to the modified spreadsheet
<sil2100>   * Continuing work on enabling other distributions (ubuntu-rtm)
<sil2100>     - More firewall holes needed in our prodstack instance
<sil2100>     - More complex silo configuration handling
<sil2100>     - Many many corner cases where ubuntu was still considered instead of selected distro
<sil2100>   * Test landing of indicator-location to ubuntu-rtm (in progress)
<sil2100>   * Prepared branch with 'retry failed jobs'
<sil2100>   * Add additional twin upload projects
<sil2100>   * No time to finish work on auto-merge-clean
<sil2100> - Work on defining TRAINCON-0 formal rules
<sil2100> - Packaging advice for some upstream developers
<sil2100> - Documenting the TRAINCON-0 incident
<sil2100> - Playing around with some hardware
<sil2100> done
<bdmurray> this covers about 2 weeks for me since I was on holiday last thursday
<bdmurray> updated errors for assets.ubuntu.com to r486
<bdmurray> testing of errors frontend change to filter on pkg_arch
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have errors frontends updated and errors_static_url modified
<bdmurray> setup logrotation for the daisy, errors frontends and pushed to the daisy and errors charms
<bdmurray> updated daisy retracer to keep core dumps when retracing and save crash files in certain situations
<bdmurray> submitted rt to have retracers updated to r504
<bdmurray> updated RT 72977 regarding errors log rotation
<bdmurray> submitted RT 73492 regarding updating the daisy frontends to r498
<bdmurray> updated daisy bucket code to pass architecture to bucketversionscount
<bdmurray> push bzr changes for daisy to increment arch counters
<bdmurray> created some armhf retrace success failures graphs in graphite
<bdmurray> submitted RT to add more retracers for errors
<bdmurray> pinged a webop to run import-user-packages cron job (they said it worked but still nothing in the ColumnFamily)
<bdmurray> manually ran import_user_packages to the temp DSE ring database
<bdmurray> research into recoverable problem bucket grouping upstart and url-dispatcher issues
<bdmurray> discovered and reported apport bug 1349579
<ubottu> bug 1349579 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all uses an incorrect assumption regarding what to upload" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349579
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal fixing apport bug 1329520
<ubottu> bug 1329520 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all crashes while processing crash file" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329520
<bdmurray> investigation into SystemImageInfo not appearing in apport .crash files on the phone
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of apport to utopic which will properly gather SystemImageInfo
<bdmurray> uploaded new version of whoopsie to upotic that will send SystemImageInfo to errors
<bdmurray> tested whoopsie bug 1320988 regarding online / offline connectivity
<ubottu> bug 1320988 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie did not become on-line after connecting to wifi" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320988
<bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie bug 1340604
<ubottu> bug 1340604 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "[phone] crash files are only uploaded on boot when not running in the foreground" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1340604
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1347009 regarding retraced crashes missing stacktrace
<ubottu> bug 1347009 in Daisy "apport-retrace occassionally creates a retraced report without a stacktrace" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347009
<bdmurray> research into duplicates for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1347721
<ubottu> bug 1347721 in apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "Saucy -> Trusty upgrade failed: procps fails to configure" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347721
<bdmurray> â done
<doko> - GCC default set to 4.9
<doko> - update of cross toolchains
<doko> - openjdk-7 mentoring and fixes
<doko> - clean up component mismatches, dep-waits, ftbfs in main, three days of nagging and fixing
<doko> - packaging review of some third party software
<doko> - updated tightvnc, updated tigervnc (at least it built for arm64 and ppc64el)
<doko> - twisted transition (ubuntu-sso-client still unfixed)
<doko> - arm64 toolchain discussion
<doko> (done)
<stgraber> Was on vacation last week.
<stgraber> E-mail and IRC catchup on Monday mostly.
<stgraber> Helped with some code reviews, discussions, ... wrt ubuntu core system-image.
<stgraber> Got an initial system-image published for ubuntu-core.
<stgraber> Discussed partitioning plan for new touch devices.
<stgraber> Fixed some LXC CI issues.
<stgraber> Recorded a video on running GUI apps inside LXC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYsj9LEqxXk
<stgraber> Poked some more at running Unity8 inside LXC.
<stgraber> Some more LXC-related discussions (conference planning, ...)
<stgraber> Discussed some of our NetworkManager patches.
<stgraber> Fixed a couple of configuration issues with the ISO tracker related to alpha-2, 14.04.1 and 12.04.5.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> slangasek: your turn =) and take over chairing =)
<slangasek> hmm :)
<slangasek>  * working with bhuey on prepping openjdk security update
<slangasek>  * discussions around the 'init' package and systemd-sysv to unblock new images using systemd from the start
<slangasek>  * tracking crash retracing success on the phones; working with bdmurray et al. to get any blocking issues fixed in advance of RTM
<slangasek>  * performance reviews
<slangasek>  * helped move forward some HWE SRUs related to a server engagement
<slangasek>  * helped with getting out of TRAINCON-0 on Monday
<slangasek>  * next week: joining a cloud team sprint (as is Colin), so expect limited availability
<slangasek>  * the week after: on vacation
<slangasek> bdmurray: on the errors.u.c side, when do you expect we'll have the per-image view available?
<bdmurray> slangasek: what was the final answer for the counter?
<slangasek> bdmurray: ah, in scrollback, let's iron that out after the meeting?
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay, it shouldn't take too long to add
<slangasek> any other questions over status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Upstart cgroup support
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Upstart cgroup support
<slangasek> forgot to do an in-depth topic for last week's meeting... remembered this week :)
<jodh> Thanks Steve. Everyone sitting comfortably?
<slangasek> so jodh will talk a bit about the work he did to implement cgroup support into upstart
<jodh> Today, I'm going to give a brief [1] talk about cgroup support in upstart
<jodh> and some of the challenges we faced. This may go some way in explaining
<jodh> the seemingly never-ending upstart async branch updates I've given in
<jodh> the past in this meeting :-)
<jodh> = Intro =
<jodh> As of version 1.13, Upstart supports cgroups. By "support", I mean "has
<jodh> the ability to place job processes into one or more cgroups" (for
<jodh> service resource control). It does _not_ mean that Upstart uses cgroups
<jodh> to mop up the mess if a service ends badly (process supervision).
<jodh> = The cgroup Stanza =
<jodh> After thrashing out the design with stgraber, slangasek and hallyn
<jodh> (http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Cgroup), we added support to parse a new
<jodh> "cgroup" stanza that a job can specify. The final syntax is extremely
<jodh> clean and praise goes to stgraber for realising how simple we could make
<jodh> it!) Here's a summary of the behaviour:
<jodh> - If not specified, the job processes are not placed into (any new)
<jodh>   cgroups.
<jodh> - If a job specifies a cgroup stanza, that job cannot legitimately start
<jodh>   until the cgroup manager itself is running. To handle this, we added a new
<jodh>   initctl command ("notify-cgroup-manager-address") which the
<jodh>   cgmanager.conf job itself calls in post-start to notify upstart where
<jodh>   to find cgmanager :-)
<jodh> - If specified, *all* job processes are put into the specified cgroup(s).
<jodh> - If specified as "cgroup <controller>" ("cgroup cpuset" for example),
<jodh>   Upstart will add the job to a job-specific cgroup whose value will be
<jodh>   "$UPSTART_JOB-$UPSTART_INSTANCE".
<jodh> - If specified as "cgroup cpuset foo 12", Upstart will place the job
<jodh>   processes into the implicit job-specific cpuset cgroup and set
<jodh>   "foo=bar" in that group.
<jodh> - If specified as "cgroup cpuset hello foo 12", Upstart will place the
<jodh>   job into a the cpuset cgroup called "hello" and set "foo=12" in that
<jodh>   group. If "hello" does not exist, it will be created. This allows
<jodh>   multiple different jobs to enter the same cgroup if desired.
<jodh> - The cgroup name ("hello" in the example above) can also contain variables:
<jodh>   "cgroup cpuset db/$foo/$bar-$baz".
<jodh> - You can also get at the cgroup that Upstart would create on behalf of
<jodh>   the job using the magic $UPSTART_CGROUP variable (note that this is
<jodh>   _not_ an environment variable and is only valid within a cgroup
<jodh>   stanza). For example: "cgroup cpuset db/$UPSTART_CGROUP".
<jodh> So far so good.
<jodh> Since there is already an excellent cgroup manager available, and since
<jodh> we try to avoid adding extra complexity to PID 1, we opted to avoid
 * slangasek waits for the footnote to resolve
<jodh> re-inventing the wheel by having cgmanager(8) handle the actual cgroup
<jodh> operations. So, when Upstart starts a job that specified a cgroup
<jodh> stanza, it needs to do the following:
<jodh> - Connect to cgmanager.
<jodh> - Ask cgmanager to create the cgroup(s).
<jodh> - Ask cgmanager to move the specified process(es) into a cgroup.
<jodh> - Ask cgmanager to set apply a particular setting to a cgroup.
<jodh> However, there's a problem with the above. What if cgmanager hung?
<jodh> We'll come back to this, but first I need to explain how Upstart spawns
<jodh> a job.
<jodh> = Async spawning =
<jodh> == Historical synchronous spawning ==
<jodh> Upstart used to do the following when wishing to start a new job process:
<jodh> 1) Create a pipe.
<jodh> 2) fork itself.
<jodh> 3) Have the child do all necessary setup such as dropping privileges,
<jodh>    closing fds, switching apparmor profiles, etc. Then:
<jodh>    - If the child finished its setup successfully it simply exec'd the
<jodh>    relevant program specified in the job .conf file for the job process
<jodh>    in question).
<jodh>    - But if the setup failed, the child wrote a status message back up to
<jodh>      the parent (PID 1) explaining what went wrong, and then exited.
<jodh> 4) All the time the child wass doing setup, PID 1 was doing a _blocking
<jodh>    read_ on its end of the pipe. This implies that no operation in the
<jodh>    child setup phase could block, since if it could block, it would also
<jodh>    block PID 1, and thus DoS the system.
<jodh> As a result, we couldn't call cgmanager from PID 1 directly, since that
<jodh> could lead to a DoS, but we couldn't call it from the child _either_.
<jodh> == Brave New World ==
<jodh> The solution was to change the way in which Upstart spawns. In the new
<jodh> world, Upstart still creates the pipe but doesn't do a blocking read; it
<jodh> just adds the fd for the read end of the pipe to a queue and waits for
<jodh> some notification from the child. So we now have asynchronous child
<jodh> spawning. To achieve this, we had to increase the number of states the
<jodh> job can be, since there is now a distinction between:
<jodh> - "the job process has been spawned successfully"
<jodh> - "the job process is _being_ spawned" (but we don't know what the outcome is yet).
<jodh> Here is the old state transition diagram:
<jodh> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-old.png
<jodh> And here's the new one:
<jodh> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-new.png
<jodh> However, that only solved half the problem - since Upstart was now
<jodh> spawning asynchronously, the design meant that the order in which child
<jodh> notifications could arrive became non-deterministic since either of the
<jodh> following could happen "first":
<jodh> - child exits and Upstart is notified via waitid().
<jodh> - child pipe closes or has data written to it and is notified by select().
<jodh> This needed careful handling since *both* those operations could update
<jodh> the job state, but we didn't want the state to be "double-bumped".
<jodh> In summary, adding the new async spawning feature was quite a challenge
<jodh> with xnox and I gaining a few grey hairs in the process (his don't show!
<jodh> Errm... ;-)
<jodh> = Test Suite =
<jodh> Since the new states and the new async nature of spawning meant that a
<jodh> large chunk of the (large!) set of Upstart tests suddently broke. Hence,
<jodh> it took lots of careful reviewing of both the code and all the required
<jodh> test changes to resolve this new feature.
<jodh> = Stateful re-exec =
<jodh> This needed updating to handle the new cgroup stanza data. But we also
<jodh> needed to consider scenarios like this:
<jodh> - PID 1 starts a job process asynchronously.
<jodh> - child takes "a long time" to setup.
<jodh> - PID 1 is restarted.
<jodh> Post-re-exec, PID 1 needs to know to keep track of the outstanding child
<jodh> setup operations it is (asynchronously) waiting on. To handle this, we
<jodh> added a new JobProcessData object to store the transitory child setup
<jodh> meta-data (which gets discarded once the child has either died or
<jodh> responded down the pipe).
<jodh> = Cgroup Operations =
<jodh> With the advent of async spawning, the child now makes all necessary
<jodh> calls on the cgmanager with PID 1 being completely immune to any issues
<jodh> that that may entail. In fact, aside from storing the parsed cgroup
<jodh> stanza data, all PID 1 does is store the address of cgmanager!
<jodh> = Conclusion =
<jodh> The final result is an extremely clean and safe design. By introducing
<jodh> async spawning we were also able to make Upstart fully immune to the
<jodh> child blocking PID 1 (there used to be a couple of areas that
<jodh> theoretically could cause issues on a mis-configured system).
<jodh> ---
<jodh> [1] - FTR, I'm using ev's definition of 'brief' :-)
 * jodh grumbles over whitespace damage....
<jodh> A non-garbled version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7915372/
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> jodh: so, http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/upstart-states-new.png is the state diagram for what's implemented now in 1.13?
<jodh> slangasek: yep - I need to refresh the cookbook with that.
<xnox> (also pretified the graph in graphviz for vertical top/down layout)
<xnox> vs previously "optimal" graph
<jodh> xnox: yeah, that's much improved, thanks! :)
<slangasek> still just the single error path, though; couldn't you have made it more complicated? ;)
<barry> jodh: very interesting!  is there a timeout after which the child is just considered hung, and does upstart do anything about that state?
<jodh> barry: no - no timeout.
<xnox> barry: it just gets stuck in e.g. "starting/pre-starting" state.
<jodh> barry: if the child hangs, the state will reflect that if you run 'initctl status $job'.
<xnox> (or some such, can't remember exact names of the spawning state"
<xnox> )
<barry> gotcha
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> if the job never gets around to starting, it's not init's job to fix it ;)
<slangasek> jodh: do we have people using the cgroup support in anger yet?
<jodh> barry: If a job does hang though, you may get something useful in cgmanagers log (assuming you've set cgmanager_opts= in /etc/init/cgmanager.conf).
<jodh> slangasek: I don't think so actually. I checked on a recent touch image and I can't see any evidence of it being used yet. We need to poke ted! :)
<slangasek> jodh: has ted been poked about this yet?
<slangasek> if not, then yes, yes you do ;)
<jodh> slangasek: not by me directly. I added him to https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/utopic/cgmanager/enable-upstart-cgroup-support/+merge/227209 so he should be aware of it.
<xnox> slangasek: i'll poke ted about it.
<slangasek> xnox: ok, thanks
<jodh> let's all poke ted. err...
<slangasek> any other questions about cgroups in upstart?
<slangasek> jodh: thanks for presenting!
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<bdmurray> slangasek: I was thinking maybe you and stgraber could discuss bug 1314616?
<ubottu> bug 1314616 in bitcoin (Ubuntu) "[SRU] bitcoin to be maintained upstream in PPA: Replace distro archive "bitcoin" bitcoin with an empty dummy package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314616
<slangasek> oh no
<stgraber> oh, that again?
<slangasek> stgraber: I had explicitly told them to submit an SRU to disable the daemon on upgrade
<slangasek> stgraber: and you are apparently not happy with the proposed solution
<stgraber> slangasek: I'm not?
<slangasek> stgraber: so yes, we should talk, but probably not during the meeting :-)
<slangasek> stgraber: that's what I heard!
<bdmurray> there was an email to ubuntu-devel about it earlier this month
<slangasek> anyway, maybe we talk on #ubuntu-devel after the meeting?
<stgraber> slangasek: I think I was just unhappy that the reporter tried to get us to do things without going through the proper SRU process
<slangasek> ah :-)
<stgraber> slangasek: I don't care about the package itself and am perfectly happy to have it die one way or another :)
<slangasek> ok then!
<slangasek> anything else to discuss on this fine summer day?
<stgraber> I mostly complained to the reporter when he started nagging me as the current patch pilot to do something which needed discussion with the SRU team. Now that the SRU team has clearly been informed of it, someone should just sponsor a debdiff and be done with it.
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 31 15:47:40 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-31-15.07.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<genii> I wonder how many people have "repaired" their own brakes instead of getting a mechanic, then ended up careening off a cliff
<genii> Wrong channel, sorry :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-01
<FaboFabiFabinO> Hello body, body. There is a error with fingerprint in the official site, with version ubuntu-14.04-desktop-amd64.iso and ubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso, them i ask pepoal go in the lunhpad for help the community: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/1349715 . For to found if it's broked file or error Fingerprint. Good look !
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1349715 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu hashes for 14.04.1 missing on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes" [Medium,Triaged]
<genii> FaboFabiFabinO: The support channel is #ubuntu and not here
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-02
<heyberlin> hola
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-03
<howefield> #startmeeting UbuntuForums Council Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Aug  3 18:24:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is howefield. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | UbuntuForums Council Meeting | Current topic:
<howefield> oh well, that worked :)
<elfy> yep :)
<howefield> evening everyone, shall we start with the Forum moves?
<elfy> wfm
<howefield> I need to google that one everytime :)
<howefield> #meetingtopic Forums Moves and Closures.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forums Moves and Closures. Meeting | Current topic:
<howefield> so the moves were completed successfullly last Friday evening.
<howefield> along with the closure of the Dell, Asus and Ubuntu One forums.
<elfy> #info Dell, Asus and Ubuntu One forums closed following prior notice
<howefield> thank you :)
<cariboo907> Should the closure of the Full Circle Magazine sub-forum be mentioned?
<elfy> oops - yea
<elfy> #info Full Circle Magazine area moved and closed
<elfy> thanks to coffeecat and howefield for doing all of that Friday too
<howefield> thanks elfy
<howefield> probably worth mentioning the Documentation and Community Wiki Discussion forum
<howefield> #info New "Documentation and Community Wiki Discussions" forum now available following request from Documentation Team.
<howefield> anything else before moving on ?
<elfy> not that I can remember
<coffeecat> we might want to redo the sticky in the section now that it includes official wiki discussion.
<elfy> we need to action that?
<coffeecat> No - juts remember I guess!
<elfy> :)
<howefield> do we need to contact the Doc team to confirm all done, let them start filling it up :)
<elfy> I thought that bapoumba had done that
<cariboo907> Do threads there still need moderation?
<elfy> pretty sure we stopped that
<cariboo907> I don't remember, and it's been a while since a new thread was created
<howefield> I'll check that once the meeting is over ?
<elfy> ok
<howefield> #action howefield to check new Documentation forum permissions.
<meetingology> ACTION: howefield to check new Documentation forum permissions.
<howefield> moving on, AOB, do we have any ?
<elfy> not unless someone pipes up and asks anything
<elfy> I've nothing
<howefield> nor me
<coffeecat> not here
<cariboo907> nothing here either
<howefield> ok, Team Report then
<elfy> I'll do that and look at <<includes ... >>
<howefield> thanks elfy
<elfy> we really need to sort the fixed items on the agenda too :)
<elfy> nothing to rotate anymore for a start
<howefield> #action Elfy to prepare Team Report and look at simplifying team reporting.
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to prepare Team Report and look at simplifying team reporting.
<cariboo907> we may even want to have an agenda for a future meeting :)
<elfy> indeed
<howefield> that always helps :)
<howefield> perhaps that should be an action, one of us to ensure agenda for following meeting ?
<cariboo907> I can do that
<elfy> yea - action someone with it :)
<howefield> no takers on that one then :) I'll do it for next time?
<elfy> there we go :)
<howefield> nija'ed
<howefield> ya beauty :)
<howefield> #action cariboo907 to prepare agenda for Septembers Council Meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: cariboo907 to prepare agenda for Septembers Council Meeting.
<howefield> thank you cariboo907
<cariboo907> you're welcome
<howefield> anything else before we close ?
<elfy> nothing left - no-one applied for membership, no division of labour needed and meetings are set till Decemeber 2015
<elfy> December as well
<howefield> great, thanks everyone.
<elfy> thanks howefield
<coffeecat> thanks howefield
<cariboo907> Thanks howefield
<howefield> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Aug  3 18:52:34 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-03-18.24.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-27
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 27 16:32:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> this week I'm focusing on openstack updates
<jdstrand> swift testsuite issues on precise are resolved
<jdstrand> I think trusty may have an issue in the functional tests. I will be testing swift and adjusting trusty as necessary
<jdstrand> I'll also be testing cinder, python-keystoneclient and python-keystonemiddleware
<jdstrand> (the last two I hadn't claimed until just now)
<jdstrand> that leaves horizon, keystone and nova. I think someone else has horizon. If I have time I'll look at keystone and nova and comment on precise
<jdstrand> beyond that, I have some embargoed issues
<jdstrand> I'm also off all next week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing apache2 updates that should get published today if all goes well
<mdeslaur> after that, I have a qemu update I'm working on, and have to test pcre3, sqlite3 and tidy
<mdeslaur> and I also have an embargoed issue
<mdeslaur> that's it for me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on testing lxc against my apparmor 2.10 packages, it's the last bit of testing I need to do before pushing for sponsorship
<sbeattie> I also need to test the openjdk-7 packages I've prepared, and discuss with do ko openjdk-6.
<sbeattie> After that, I'll look at what's next on the priority list.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me, tyhicks?
 * doko is adding another word to high light
<sbeattie> hehe
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I have a couple embargoed issues
<tyhicks> I still need to review the kdbus LSM hook patch set
<tyhicks> I'm currently putting the final touches on a fix for bug #1470030 and then I'll submit that upstream
<ubottu> bug 1470030 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu) "encrypted home is not being unmounted upon logout" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1470030
<tyhicks> sorry, that's the wrong bug
<tyhicks> bug #1438942 is the correct one
<ubottu> bug 1438942 in schroot (Ubuntu) "Host's /dev/shm is mounted over when entering 14.10 and older sbuild schroots" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438942
<tyhicks> I also still need to verify the auditing bug fix in the phone kernels
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sbeattie: you're up
<tyhicks> err
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm sure sbeattie will be thrilled to get a second go
<tyhicks> :)
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> I have some USNs to publish
<jjohansen> and then I need to get back to the dbus review, fixing a couple kernel bugs
<jdstrand> do you mean dconf?
<tyhicks> dbus review?
<jjohansen> bug #1448912 in particular, as it seems to be poping all to much
<ubottu> bug 1448912 in AppArmor "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference (aa_label_merge)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1448912
<jjohansen> jdstrand: oops yes, dconf (I'll blame monday morning)
<jjohansen> and of course, I still need to submit some patches upstream, and get back to the rest of the upstream cleanup work
<jjohansen> oh, and I need to do some more digging on a couple of aspects of the 4.2 kernel rebase, there was specifically some changes around secure exec that deserve a second look
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me sarnold, you're up
<sarnold> I'm on CVE triage this week
<sarnold> I finished the ppc64-diag reviews last week; tyhicks, would you like me to pick up another MIR or pick up a reactive update?
<tyhicks> sarnold: gut feeling is another MIR but lets talk after the meeting
<sarnold> alright, no real rush, cve triage takes fo r ever anyway :)
<sarnold> chrisccoulson? :)
<chrisccoulson> It's a short week for me this week
<chrisccoulson> I hope to get Oxide and Chromium out, and work through some of my review queue
<chrisccoulson> That's me done I think
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-h8300-hms.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-parser.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dhcpcd.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/syslog-ng.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ha.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 27 16:55:23 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-27-16.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-28
<kickinz1> o/
<smoser> o/
<smoser> hello and welcome
<arges> o/
<thedac> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 28 16:00:40 2015 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> i was to check with odd_bloke on bug 1461242
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
<smoser> and did. wily is fix-released.
<smoser> no other action items
<matsubara> o/
<smoser> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> we're moving into alpha2 time frame. then follows feature freeze in ~ 3 weeks
<smoser> so be ready for that.
<smoser> anything else here?
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> all of thecloud-init ones are fixed in wily. same with curtin
<smoser> hm.. heat too
<smoser> that list looks almost out of date
<smoser> oh joy. it is
<smoser>  " Thursday, 09. July 2015 03:47 UTC"
<smoser> am i re-treading known things here?
<smoser> i've raised that just now in #ubuntu-devel
<smoser> i'll follow up a bit on it.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> caribou previously sent regrets on attendence
<smoser> does anyone have anything here they're intersted in talkin about ?
<smoser> other wise, we move on to our good friend matsubara
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<smoser> matsubara, you have anything ?
<matsubara> smoser, hi, nothing new to report.
<smoser> or anyone have anything for mr matsubara
<smoser> seeing none..
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Nothing to report here.
<smoser> a whole team of kernel engineers have nothing to report
<arges> Everything is awesome.
<smoser> 4.0  is *that* fabulous
<smoser> $ uname -r
<smoser> 4.1.0-2-generic
<smoser> you're all jealous
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> well, not call for papers... but a shameless call for vote
<smoser> votes.
<smoser>  http://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/07/27/voting-begins-for-openstack-tokyo-talks/
<smoser> those are the Ubuntu / Canonical submitted talks for openstack summit.
<smoser> take a gander, if something seems interesting, give it a vote.
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> the Canonical members of the Ubuntu Server team will be sprinting next week
<smoser> so i think we should probably suspend the meeting for next week
<rbasak> +1 to postpone meeting
<rbasak> Good thinking, thanks.
<smoser> and if you have anything you think should be looked at, please feel free to bother rbasak or smoser.
<smoser> smoser will just make sure that rbasak does it :)
<rbasak> :-/
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anything here ?
<smoser> ok. then
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> next meeting will be 2 weeks from today at 16:00 UTC
<smoser> Tue Aug 11 16:00:00 UTC 2015
<smoser> thanks all
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 16:13:14 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-28-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks smoser
<rbasak> Thanks smoser!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 28 17:00:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<chiluk> o/
<bjf> o/
<arges> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<jsalisbury>   *     Precise - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *      Trusty - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *  lts-Utopic - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury>   *      Vivid  - Kernel Prep
<jsalisbury> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<jsalisbury>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<jsalisbury> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<jsalisbury>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> Schedule:
<jsalisbury>  
<jsalisbury> cycle: 26-Jul through 15-Aug
<jsalisbury> ====================================================================
<jsalisbury>          24-Jul   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<jsalisbury> 26-Jul - 01-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<jsalisbury> 02-Aug - 08-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<jsalisbury> 09-Aug - 15-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury   :-)
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 17:04:06 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-28-17.00.moin.txt
<smb> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-29
<Libero_IMC-BCN> #startmeeting test1
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 29 10:50:46 2015 UTC.  The chair is Libero_IMC-BCN. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | test1 Meeting | Current topic:
<Libero_IMC-BCN> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 29 10:51:12 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-29-10.50.moin.txt
<Kilos> hmm...
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-30
 * Kilos waves
 * slangasek waves
 * infinity grunts.
 * genii sips
 * doko curses
<robru> burps
<robru> crap
 * sil2100 curses
<robru> forgot to /me, I ruined it!
<slangasek> well that's .. different?
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 30 15:01:45 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cyphermox> o/
<pitti> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Welcome, Tiago!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome, Tiago!
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> hey, so some of you will have seen the mail from me today... we have a new team member joining us for the first time this week :)
<bdmurray> yeah!
<tdaitx> glad to be here =)
<slangasek> tdaitx is taking on the java maintainer position, and I'm sure is having fun drinking from the new-starter firehose
<sil2100> tdaitx: good to have you on board!
<tdaitx> indeed
<pitti> hey tdaitx, welcome!
<slangasek> tdaitx: anything you want to tell the team about yourself?
<mbruzek> tdaitx: Welcome fellow Java person.
<infinity> tdaitx: I hope you really, really, really like Germans.
<cyphermox> welcome tdaitx!
<tdaitx> well, I lived for 3 months at Germany once ;-)
<tdaitx> good memories
<infinity> tdaitx: Well, you're about to work very closely with someone who's lived in Germany for about 80 years.
<infinity> Ish.
<doko> fein, fast jeder hier spricht deutsch (although slangasek's is a bit rusty)
<pitti> jawoll!
<doko> don't forget to bring the cachaca for the next sprint =)
<slangasek> mien Deutch nie war nicht rostig
<slangasek> also it seems to have lost an s somewhere
<infinity> My German is also not roasting.
<tdaitx> well, what can I say, I have been involved with software development for quite a long time, moved from php to java to IDL to infrastructure and back and forth =)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> oops
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Welcome, Tiago!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Welcome, Tiago!
<slangasek>  ;)
<infinity> Hahahaha.
<infinity> slangasek: I can only assume the PHP bit wasn't on his resume.
<tdaitx> I have been looking into joining canonical for a while and for some reason slangasek and doko agreed to it a few weeks back
<tdaitx> ;-)
<cyphermox> infinity: people don't like to brag about the dark parts in their lives.
<robru> lol
<sil2100> Dark parts indeed..!
<slangasek> hmm I don't remember seeing php /or/ IDL on there, but maybe that was selective blindness ;)
 * sil2100 shrugs in terror
<tdaitx> yeah, it was left out in purpose
<infinity> :)
<infinity> Well played.
<infinity> tdaitx: Just one question: how do you feel about BSD?
<tdaitx> is this one of those tricky questions?
<infinity> It's an inside joke, don't worry.  We'll fill you in when one of us gets a little bit unsober.
<tdaitx> I have gone as far as installing nas4free
<infinity> I nominate slangasek.
<slangasek> mmhmm
<cyphermox> I still haven't heard that BSD joke.
<slangasek> right, so /now/ I think it's time to move on ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> caribou barry sil2100 infinity doko bdmurray slangasek pitti robru tdaitx cyphermox
<slangasek> that's a totally fair dice roll and I didn't reroll it twice because tdaitx ended up at the front of the list, honest
<sil2100> caribou is not around today from what I read
<doko> cough, last upload quantal ... dbus-c++ (0.9.0-6ubuntu1) quantal; urgency=low
<infinity> Isn't he on vacation for a few years or something?
<pitti> . o O { and we told infinity a thousand times to not exaggerate }
<infinity> doko: Oh phew, I thought that was going to be one of mine.
<sil2100> doko: to the transition PPA?!
<slangasek> tdaitx: so for this part of the meeting (which is the main part, which often makes for a quick meeting), we go around telling the team what we've been working on the past week / will work on for the next week / are stuck on and want input on, then we ask follow-up questions if there are any
<sil2100> Ah, barry not around as well!
<sil2100> Ok, so my turn it seems
<sil2100> A long one today:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Unblocked thumbnailer from wily-proposed
<sil2100> - Fixed channel mis-configurations for arale images
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
<sil2100> - gcc-5 transition misc stuff:
<sil2100>   * Releasing some of the pending merges as per doko's request
<slangasek> tdaitx: it's traditional to draft this in the 5 minutes after the start of the meeting time, but we won't hold you to tradition
<sil2100>   * Coordingating landing of others
<sil2100>   * Consulting and packaging help for upstreams during the transition
<sil2100> - Shlibs help for some developers wanting to get rid of symbol files
<sil2100> - Prepared jenkins job for help in spreadsheet -> bileto migration
<sil2100> - Looked into why the URLs from bileto to assign silos are double-urlencoded
<sil2100>   * This was breaking silo assignment
<sil2100> - Finished making commitlogs scripts working with bileto
<sil2100> - Migrating a few CI Train spreadsheet entries to bileto, analyzing related problems
<sil2100> - Work on a tool to perform a batch landing from the gcc-5 transition silo
<sil2100> - Writing script for downloading specific older debs from the overlay PPA
<sil2100> - Coordinating enabling the LP overlay translations with the LP team
<sil2100> - Re-spinning and re-releasing OTA-5 hotfix for mako devices
<sil2100> - Discussions regarding the mako Nokia HERE tarballs and images
<sil2100> - Updating the release process for OTA-6
<sil2100> - Looking into the livecd-rootfs problem with missing -updates and -security
<sil2100>   * It's a problem with live-build removing them for ubuntu in lb_chroot_archives
<sil2100> (done)
<infinity> slangasek: Did you replace sil2100 with ev?
<infinity>  - Wrangled critical kernel security updates
<infinity>  - Dealt with fallout and emergency fix for regression from above
<infinity>  - Lots and lots and lots of SRU work for 14.04.3, reviews and uploads
<infinity>  - Fixed livecd-rootfs for HWE regressions and lubuntu/kubuntu builds
<infinity>  - Fixed critical apt autoremove bug breaking 14.04.3 builds
<infinity>  - Updated powerpc-ibm-utils in unstable and wily
<infinity>  - Started on the rest of the IBM rtas stack updates for wily (and SRUs to trusty)
<infinity>  - Random archive admin tasks
<infinity>  - Performing an experiment to see how long one can attempt to offset caffeine headaches with ibuprofen before they die
<infinity> (done)
<doko> - trying to keep silo16 up to date
<doko> - started silo39 for the library renamings
<doko> - pinging ubuntu-touch people to fix things
<doko> - some python fixes, necessary for 3.5 as supported version
<doko> - start mentoring tiago
<doko> - openjdk-7, openjdk-8 security updates, openjdk-9 update
<doko> - some GCC 5 bug fixes, and libstdc++ breaks added
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> I need to start writing my weekly reports in the format of "- Did *stuff*. (done)"
<bdmurray> reviewed retracer logs for information about core files still in swift
<bdmurray> daisy retracer changes to better handle a failure to get the core file (don't
<bdmurray> remove it from the queue as it may be a temporary network issue)
<bdmurray> resolved issue with retracer's moving failures due to networking errors to failed queue
<bdmurray> confirmed update of daisy on the production daisy frontends is good
<bdmurray> research into migration of Errors to a DevOps service
<bdmurray> replied to errors bug LP: #1479465 (overlay PPA stuff)
<bdmurray> investigation into and discovery of reason for apport test failures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1479465 in Errors "Show the touch overlay PPA in the package versions table" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479465
<bdmurray> updated RT #83411 regarding removing Utopic crashes
<bdmurray> investigation into iproute2 increase in crash rate (w/o crashes)
<bdmurray> reported systemd bug LP: #1478115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1478115 in systemd (Ubuntu) "using PathExistsGlob in apport-noui.path results in test failures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478115
<bdmurray> participated in making Ubuntu 14.10 End of Life
<bdmurray> updated bugbot to log reporter of no package bugs
<bdmurray> â done
<sil2100> infinity: how's the experiment so far?
<infinity> sil2100: Not dead yet!
<sil2100> I don't believe you
<slangasek> sil2100: what was misconfigured for the arale images?
<sil2100> slangasek: your turn!
<sil2100> slangasek: it seems they changed some jenkins urls for custom tarballs for a few channels - or gave us wrong ones from the start
<sil2100> But those were for the meizu.zh arale ones
<sil2100> So no impact
<slangasek> sil2100: ah, ok
<slangasek>  * discussions around library package renaming for the gcc5 transition
<slangasek>  * tracking down silos with gcc5 fixes, and giving their owners a nudge
<slangasek>  * python3.5 transition: fixing most of the build failures caused by no-change rebuilds with python3.5 enabled; roughly 20 problem packages remaining
<slangasek>  * tracking of the remaining POWER issues for 14.04.3
<slangasek>  * discussions around proposed-migration blip that caused all test failures to be ignored last night
<slangasek>  * this week:
<slangasek>   * follow through on shim SRU before 14.04.3
<slangasek> (done)
<pitti> only three (but rather long) days to report due to holidays
<pitti> autopkgtest cloud:
<pitti>  - add build-essential to trusty testbeds for test backwards compat
<pitti>  - analyze/categorize all tmpfails, fix bugs in worker and autopkgtest
<pitti>  - create LXC worker, and set up AMQP/swift workers for armhf/ppc64el
<pitti>  - rollout of britney with considering cloud test results, but reverted due to a grave bug in the logic that promoted most things with test regressions
<pitti>  - sift through the above fallout, fortunately not much actually broke except foolscap's test (still TBI)
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - langpack-o-matic: adjust to new potemplate-stats format
<pitti>  - build new wily langpacks for touch issue (#1478208)
<pitti>  - help with g++ 5 transition
<pitti>  - fix apport for python 3.5
<pitti>  - package systemd 223 (delaying due to alpha-2 freeze)
<pitti> [END]
<robru> ok
<robru> so the universe is exploding
<robru> * Finally got live rollout of Bileto to replace CI Train spreadsheet, many back-and-forths with IS to make it happen
<robru> * nothing works right now, need to get everythign fixed
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> robru: is that beyond the double-urlencoding issue?
<infinity> pitti: Oh, speaking of langpacks, I'll need some for trusty.
<robru> slangasek: yeah for some reason bileto is giving HTTP500 intermittently on some requests
<slangasek> robru: I assume the old spreadsheety instance is still up; have you considered asking IS for a DNS rollback?
<robru> slangasek: I just asked IS for the logs, no idea why it's failing
 * pitti waits for https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+language-packs to stop timing out
<robru> slangasek: pls no
<pitti> infinity: I asked on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+language-packs for a full export, but the cron'ed one will be too late; I'll ask wgrant for a manual run
<sil2100> The other problem is that I though the spreadsheet would still be supported for the grace period
<robru> slangasek: the double-encoding thing shouldn't be horrible to fix quickly but intermittent 500s is a mystery
<infinity> pitti: Ta.
<slangasek> robru: if the phone team is down right now due to these problems, a rollback would be the right thing to do so you can debug it offline
<tdaitx> let me know when I should drop in
<infinity> tdaitx: Whenever.
<tdaitx> as slangasek said, I have been "drinking from the new-starter firehose"
<tdaitx> apart from that...
<tdaitx> - fixed a libedit bug for wily proposed; lp #1479474
<tdaitx> - fixed conflict and merged bash (4.3-11ubuntu3 and debian's 4.3-13); lp #1479542
<tdaitx> - getting familiar to debian/ubuntu packaging process
<tdaitx> next steps are:
<slangasek> tdaitx: feel free to talk over us :)
<robru> slangasek: DNS rollback shouldn't be necessary, the spreadsheet is still online and jenkins still works, it's possible to just use that
<tdaitx> - finish the newcomer stuff
<tdaitx> - make sense out of the openjdk-7 packaging style
<tdaitx> - fix more stuff on ftbfs
<tdaitx> - get acquainted with a few openjdk bugs
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1479474 in libedit (Ubuntu) "failure to detect libbsd on build due to wrong LDFLAGS usage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1479542 in bash (Ubuntu) "merge Debian 4.3-13 and 4.3-11ubuntu3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479542
<slangasek> robru: isn't run.sh pointing at a hostname that has been moved?
<cyphermox>  * trusty SRUs:
<cyphermox>    - parted 4k sector disk support
<cyphermox>    - fixed up initial multipath-tools SRU for FC, 4k, udev shared lock
<infinity> tdaitx: Pro tip, if you ref those as LP: #1479474, gnome-terminal linkifies them for lazy people like me.
<cyphermox>  * moar multipath work to SRU bug 1468897 to trusty:
<cyphermox>    - fixed some udev interaction issues
<cyphermox>    - lots of testing, on qemu and ppc64el.
<slangasek> robru: and is anyone able to find the dashboard?
<sil2100> robru: yeah, although I was considering getting the old dashboard setup somewhere to track spreadsheet entries
<robru> slangasek: run.sh is pointing at the jenkins instance which is working perfectly.
<cyphermox>  * debugging ubiquity issue for 14.04.3 with infinity.
<cyphermox>  * ubiquity cherry-pick for 14.04.3 print flush.
<cyphermox>  * identified an issue with handling wwids in initramfs in multipath 0.5.0
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1468897 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468897). The error has been logged
<sil2100> robru, slangasek: since the new one is not tracking the spreadsheet at all
<cyphermox>    - needs fix in partman-multipath and multipath-tools itself
<cyphermox>  * silo for NetworkManager upload (landing-017)
<cyphermox>    - testing with ModemManager, given some core changes in NM code.
<slangasek> robru: ok, I understood from last night's discussion that IS was updating the target of that DNS name
<cyphermox>  * uploaded skiboot (opal-prd) to wily NEW queue.
<cyphermox> â¹âââº
<pitti> infinity: or just click on the autogenerated links from ubottu ;)
<tdaitx> infinity, noted =)
<infinity> pitti: The bot's not in every channel. :P
<sil2100> robru, slangasek: we could also switch the spreadsheet to use the new location for the config files for silos and still work in the background
<robru> slangasek: yes they changed the DNS to point at the jenkins instance that is actually being used.
<bdmurray> infinity: terminator linkify's them too fwiw
<infinity> bdmurray: Well, it's vte that does it, I think.
<sil2100> robru, slangasek: since the dashboard only supports bileto right now, I would also opt for a mass migration of existing spreadsheet entries to bileto, since right now there's no flow control on the old landings
<slangasek> cyphermox: is the wwids-in-initramfs problem a regression in the last SRU / blocker for 14.04.3?
<cyphermox> slangasek: no, it's an issue with that pesky thing of ignoring USB devices and non-mpath disks
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any other questions over status?
<cyphermox> (but it's a bug in wily too, since we don't have the wwids file there either, not sure why people haven't reported it)
<slangasek> because nobody runs a server on an Ubuntu development series, and especially not one using multipath?
<cyphermox> some people do test multipath on wily...
<cyphermox> I like to think I'm not the only one :)
<slangasek> well
<slangasek> if it makes you happy to think that ;-)
<cyphermox> it does! :D
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> oh wait
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Sprinting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Sprinting
<tdaitx> charles, wouldn't it be possible to automate multipath tests using qemu as well?
<cyphermox> tdaitx: I do :)
<tdaitx> ops, cyphermox ^
<slangasek> we have a sprint in the works
<cyphermox> tdaitx: I keep preseeds for this stuff at http://people.canonical.com/~mtrudel/preseed/
<slangasek> the details are not completely finalized yet (location, etc) but we have a week set
<slangasek> September 14
<slangasek> 14-18
<slangasek> so please mark your calendars
<cyphermox> slangasek: back to a full week?
<sil2100> Sprint? Uh oh
<infinity> slangasek: I vote somewhere with English accents and Parliament.
<slangasek> cyphermox: had we ever stopped sprints being full-week?
<sil2100> Hope it's in Europ
<sil2100> *Europe
<slangasek> infinity: I hear there are people agitating to have it somewhere tropical
<slangasek> by which I mean Florida, not somewhere fun
<slangasek> :)
<infinity> slangasek: Those people are crazy.
<infinity> slangasek: Oh, gross.
<slangasek> anyway, I'll keep you all posted
<sil2100> Not the US, oh no please no
<infinity> slangasek: Every time I have to sprint in Orlando, I die a little inside.
<slangasek> or more likely you'll get an email direct from msm the moment it's decided
<pitti> sil2100: last EU sprint was a while ago indeed
<slangasek> infinity: but it's the happiest place on earth!
 * tdaitx is a not tropical kind of guy
<infinity> slangasek: That's Anaheim.
<cyphermox> it's tropical enough here in Montreal this week :)
<slangasek> or wait, not the happiest place on earth... the happiest place in the other thing
<cyphermox> slangasek: in florida?
<slangasek> actually Miami was mooted but I don't know if that'll fly
<infinity> slangasek: Orlando is the happiest place in Orlando.  That's about the best it can manage.
<infinity> slangasek: Miami's a whole different story, it has culture.  I'd do that!
<slangasek> sil2100: do you have your passport situation sorted yet?
<sil2100> slangasek: hm, I'll have to drive to get a new one, since indeed the previous one will be invalid by that time
<sil2100> slangasek: thanks for the reminder!
<sil2100> ;p
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> ok - anything else?
<infinity> If anyone has anything they need to get onto 14.04.3 images, your deadline is about a week ago.  HTH, HAND.
<bdmurray> infinity: in bug 1471903 sil2100 mentions -updates being removed by live-build
<ubottu> bug 1471903 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1471903
<sil2100> Yeah
<bdmurray> infinity: would that also happen with 14.04.3 images?
<sil2100> The ubuntu-remove-non-release-lists.patch patch does that
<infinity> bdmurray: Yeah, that's by design.   I'm unconvinced that fixing it will fix anything.
<sil2100> bdmurray: the rationale of this patch makes sense for desktop, sadly not for a system with a read-only filesystem
<infinity> bdmurray: Since we do things like run apt-get update in the installer, which then invalidates any out of date packages anyway.
<slangasek> infinity: it will fix the packages on the image that are installed from -updates and -security being shown as being of unknown source
<infinity> bdmurray: Anyhow, we can discuss it out of meeting.
<slangasek> whether this is worth the cost is another question
<bdmurray> infinity: if the origin for a package is unknown you can't use ubuntu-bug so then you can't use it when running a live cd before installing.
<infinity> slangasek: It only fixes them until they're out of date again.
<slangasek> infinity: yes, you run apt-get update in the installer, but not for the live system
<infinity> slangasek: Are the majority of our bugs on livecds not from the installer environment?
<slangasek> infinity: how do we know, given that people can't report them? ;)
<sil2100> hah, indeed
<slangasek> anyway, let's discuss outside meeting as suggested
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 30 15:46:37 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-07-30-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<sil2100> I would opt for getting that patch removed, not sure if there's enough merit in having it around to try and work-around it somehow in ubuntu-touch
<sil2100> Thanks!
<tdaitx> what does AOB stands for?
<sil2100> Any Other Business I guess
<infinity> All Other Business.
<pitti> tdaitx: any other b... yes
<infinity> Or Any.
<tdaitx> lol
<pitti> http://www.acronymfinder.com/AOB.html has a few other interesting ones, though
<slangasek> linux-any other business?
<infinity> Oh man, tired+dyslexia = reading gold.
<infinity> I read that first one as "anals of baloney"
<sil2100> infinity: I had the same thing, but in my case it was maybe only because I'm a perv
<pitti> we're done, right?
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-07-31
<arges> ]quit
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-01
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox> yo
<rbasak> So going round on who's here, I think bdmurray might be up to chair next.
<sil2100> Who was supposed to be the chair today by schedule?
<sil2100> micahg ?
<sil2100> Since that's what the agenda said
<sil2100> Not sure if anyone updated it after the last meeting though
<rbasak> micahg wasn't present at the last meeting so I chaired. I should have updated the rotation, sorry.
<rbasak> otto doesn't seem to be here.
<rbasak> Rosco2: are you here?
<Rosco2> o/
<infinity> Crap, I'm late.  As usual.
<infinity> Silly work getting in the way of work.
<sil2100> Good! You're the chair then
<sil2100> ;)
<infinity> Gah.
<infinity> I can leave again.
<infinity> (Am I really the chair?  Didn't I chair two weeks ago?)
<infinity> I know I did.
<infinity> I chaired from DebConf.
<rbasak> I chaired last I thought?
<infinity> Whenever debconf was.  3 weeks?
<sil2100> I wasn't on the last meeting, let's check the logs maybe to make sure
<infinity> We failed to go alphabetically.
<cyphermox> veyr much alfabetical fail
<rbasak> We generally fail to go alphabetically because people are often not present and miss their chair turn.
<rbasak> So things get very confused.
<infinity> Indeed.
<sil2100> Meeting started by rbasak at 19:10:27 UTC
<sil2100> Anyway, I do remember infinity chairing not so long ago
<infinity> FWIW, in the TB, we always note next chair and backup.  Next chair would be the jerk who missed his turn, backup is the next alpha in order from the person who just chaired.
<sil2100> bdmurray: you feel like chairing today? :)
<infinity> Aaaanyhow.  Who's here?  Just us 4?
<infinity> 5?
<Rosco2> o/
<sil2100> bdmurray also waved, so 5 I suppose
<sil2100> If he's still around
<bdmurray> Yes, but distracted.
<sil2100> Maybe I should go then? Since after bdmurray I'm the next chair alphabetically
<sil2100> (assuming infinity and rbasak were doing chairing some other time in someone else's stead)
<micahg> o/
<infinity> $ shuf -e bdmurray infinity rbasak cyperhmox sil2100
<infinity> sil2100
<infinity> bdmurray
<infinity> cyperhmox
<infinity> infinity
<infinity> rbasak
<infinity> sil2100: My computer agrees with you.
<sil2100> Oh! micahg is here too!
<sil2100> It's actually his turn, so I think I got saved by the bell
<infinity> Hah.
<micahg> no, I chaired a while ago
<infinity> micahg: CHAIR ON, MACDUFF.
<infinity> OR DON'T.
<rbasak> FFS
<infinity> Okay, sil2100 and let's just reset alpha from there.
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug  1 15:16:00 2016 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> There, I did it.
<infinity> So we can stop being confused.
<micahg> it should be whoever is after me
<infinity> Or that. :P
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
<rbasak> cyphremox Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<rbasak> everyone to review rbasak's question on devel-permissions and give feedback
<cyphermox> in progress, it will be done today
<rbasak> rbasak to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj (blocked on previous)
<rbasak> My action is with infinity
<rbasak> infinity: any news on that please?
<rbasak> #action Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions (carried over)
<infinity> rbasak: Derp.  I've been swamped with stuff.  I'll sort it today.
<cyphermox> rbasak: in progress, it will be done today
<rbasak> #action infinity  to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity  to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj
<rbasak> cyphermox: thanks. I just wanted to carry it over so it doesn't get lost in the next meeting in case you get distracted.
<cyphermox> yes
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (Aug 1st, 2016)
<rbasak> I don't think otto is here.
<rbasak> So let's move on.
<rbasak> #subtopic Extend the ubuntu-mate package set to include mate-hud (Jul 18th, 2016)
<rbasak> I think we concluded that there's nothing to do here until mate-hud is seeded, and then one of us can just regenerate the packageset.
<sil2100> I agree
<rbasak> Looks like it is seeded now.
<sil2100> Oh, indeed
<sil2100> I can do that, since I never regenerated packagesets before
<rbasak> Thanks!
<sil2100> If you could put an action item for me for that
<sil2100> I'll do that in a moment
<rbasak> #action sil2100 to regenerate ubuntu-mate packageset to add new seeded package mate-hud for flexiondotorg
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to regenerate ubuntu-mate packageset to add new seeded package mate-hud for flexiondotorg
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic Ross Gammon (Aug 1, 2016)
<rbasak> Rosco2: you're on!
<Rosco2> Hi there all
<rbasak> Rosco2: would you like to introduce yourself?
<Rosco2> I am the Test Team lead for Ubuntu Studio
<Rosco2> Debian Maintainer for a few packages
<infinity> Rosco2: Excellent, I'll have ISOs for you to test today. :P
<Rosco2> :-)
<infinity> Oh look, it's otto.  Fashionably late.
<rbasak> I think otto was expecting the meeting to be in #ubuntu-devel. Our Agenda page doens't seem to state venue. I should add it.
<Rosco2> Have done a small number of bits in Ubuntu that were sponsored
<otto> Sorry, I only read the first part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard and did not notice #ubuntu-meeting
<sil2100> otto: ok, no worries, good that you're here today
<infinity> Rosco2: Yeah, I was about to ask about the "small number".  The Ubuntu Contributing Thingee description mentions "significant and sustained contributions".
<sil2100> We'll take care of your application once we're done with Rosco2
<infinity> Rosco2: That said, if we add up Debian and Ubuntu involvement together, I suspect it counts.
<Rosco2> Basically just stating an intention to begin getting serious in Ubuntu
<Rosco2> Ubuntu Studio is short on regular developers
<infinity> They are indeed.
<rbasak> Rosco2: had you asked anyone for endorsements on your application?
<Rosco2> Yes - I asked the small number of sponsors
<Rosco2> Only 2 responded saying they needed to see more
<Rosco2> But I am not expecting upload rights straight away
<infinity> Rosco2: You seem to have a lot of old ITP bugs open in Debian.  Is the plan to get those done and uploaded, and maintain them in both Debian and Ubuntu?
<Rosco2> Just want to work towards it
<Rosco2> Yes
<sil2100> Rosco2: I see that in your application plans for the future you mentioned you want make sure all ubuntu studio packages have autopkgtests - do you have experience in writing those?
<Rosco2> Need to try and get it done before the freeze
<Rosco2> I have only written the one autopkgtest
<Rosco2> But I watch the video from the last debconf
<Rosco2>  and promised myself to do better
<sil2100> Ok
<Rosco2> watched
<Rosco2> We have been concentratiing on manual tests in Studio
<Rosco2> Trying to have one for each priority package for us
<rbasak> OK, any other questions for Rosco2?
 * rbasak forgot he was chairing for a minute there, sorry!
 * sil2100 has no more questions
<rbasak> OK, let's vote
<rbasak> #vote Rosco2 for contributing developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Rosco2 for contributing developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<infinity> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from infinity
<infinity> Rosco2: FWIW, that's not an opinion on you or your work, but rather just the limited contribution so far.  I don't think you meet the bar for "significant and sustained".
<infinity> Rosco2: Get a bunch more sponsored uploads under your belt, and I'll be happy to change that.
<rbasak> cyphermox, sil2100, micahg: please vote
<bdmurray> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> yeah, thinking about it
<cyphermox> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from cyphermox
<micahg> +0 would be nice to have some endorsements of the dev work that's been done and see more of it (significant and sustained)
<meetingology> +0 would be nice to have some endorsements of the dev work that's been done and see more of it (significant and sustained) received from micahg
<rbasak> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from rbasak
<sil2100> +0 (good direction, but need to demonstrate a bit more ubuntu involvement)
<rbasak> It certainly sounds like your contributions exceed the picture given by comments and endorsements on your application. So it sounds like your contributions may meet the requirements for contributing developer, but I feel that I should base any decision on endorsements, and unfortunately you have none. I appreciate your contributions and I hope to see you continue, but I don't feel that it's
<meetingology> +0 (good direction, but need to demonstrate a bit more ubuntu involvement) received from sil2100
<rbasak> appropriate to proceed without endorsements.
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Rosco2 for contributing developer
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:2 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Motion denied
<Rosco2> No problems. Thanks guys
<Rosco2> I will keep plugging away :-)
<micahg> Rosco2: might help also if you're specific when you ask for endorsements that it's not for upload rights right now
<micahg> most devs when approached for endorsements think upload rights
<Rosco2> I thought I said that - but point taken
<rbasak> Rosco2: thank you for your contributions. I'm sorry we couldn't endorse your application right now, but I hope we can do so in the future. I hope you'll consider reapplying as soon as you've addressed the comments we made.
<infinity> Rosco2: Yeah.  Just get a bunch more uploads in, and as micahg mentions, ask some of your sponsors to basically say that the work you're doing is useful.
<rbasak> Now that otto's here, let's go back to him.
<infinity> Rosco2: (Or if all your stuff goes through zequence, that's fine if he's your only real endorsement, just make sure he has a lot of work to base it on)
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic Otto KekÃ¤lÃ¤inen (Aug 1st, 2016)
<rbasak> otto: hello!
<otto> o/
<rbasak> otto: please introduce yourself, and we'll see if anyone has any questions.
<rbasak> I have endorsed otto myself, and so I have no questions for him.
<otto> I have been a Linux advocate ever since I was introduced to it around 1998-1999
<otto> I've been using and working with both RPM and DEB based distros
<otto> I started using Ubuntu around 2005
<otto> Currently I work for Seravo Oy and the MariaDB Foundation, and enjoy working with FOSS full time
<infinity> otto: I assume the three packages you're asking for upload rights to are all ones you upload in Debian?
<otto> Yes
<infinity> Yeah.  I've no real questions about competence and the like, then.  We consume your packaging anyway.
<infinity> So, the only real questions are if you know and understand Ubuntu release cycles/schedules and all that.
<micahg> and everything is in sync with Debian, nice :)
<otto> the link in my application shows an overview of my packages in Debian: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=otto%40debian.org
<infinity> otto: Yeah, it's all team maintained, though, so hard to tell what you actually upload, and asking you was easier than parsing changelogs. ;)
<infinity> otto: Anyhow, I'm more than satisfied with your Debian creds on this front.
<otto> I actually upload all of those that have otto@debian.org as uploader
<infinity> otto: So, it's just down to Ubuntu nit-picking.  Are you aware of where we keep our release schedule, what feature freeze means, how to plead with the release team to break feature freeze, etc? :P
<infinity> I know you're aware of the SRU/security processes, because you already deal with those.
<otto> Note that I am currently the only active DD in the pkg-mysql team in Debian. Robie is in the team too but only as DM (but that should change soon)
<otto> I have been looking at pages like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule since 2005
<infinity> otto: Yeah, a lot of us have fallen by the wayside over the years.  Sorry about that. :P
<otto> Though I have to admit I run only LTS releases on my own machines since some years
<cyphermox> I'd like to vote but I'm going to need to run away for a bit; I'm +1
<infinity> otto: Knowing the URL is already miles ahead of half the people who have upload rights.
<otto> But I do all of my Debian packaging so that I upload to Launchpad PPA in parallel
<rbasak> cyphermox: noted, thanks.
<infinity> cyphermox: I'll spoof your vote.
<cyphermox> sorry about that
 * sil2100 doesn't have any particular questions here
<rbasak> Any other questions for otto?
<bdmurray> Not from me
<infinity> I'm good, I think.
<rbasak> #vote otto for PPU to mariadb-10.0, mariadb-client-lgpl, galera-3
<meetingology> Please vote on: otto for PPU to mariadb-10.0, mariadb-client-lgpl, galera-3
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<cyphermix> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermix
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<rbasak> sil2100: would you like to vote?
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<sil2100> !
<sil2100> Got disctracted, sorry about that ;)
<rbasak> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: otto for PPU to mariadb-10.0, mariadb-client-lgpl, galera-3
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<rbasak> No problem :)
<otto> thanks :)
<rbasak> otto: congratulations, and thank you for your contributions to Ubuntu!
<sil2100> otto: happy per-package-uploading!
<sil2100> rbasak: will you send out an announcement?
<infinity> rbasak: I'm going to forget my actions immediately after the meeting because 14.04.5 is driving me batty.  Can you send me a mail with all the TB-necessary things I need to do?
<rbasak> infinity: can you take an action to add otto please?
<infinity> Jinx.
<rbasak> Yes, I can do the announcement.
<rbasak> infinity: will do
<infinity> Ta.
<rbasak> #action infinity to add Otto PPU access to mariadb-10.0, mariadb-client-lgpl, and galera-3
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to add Otto PPU access to mariadb-10.0, mariadb-client-lgpl, and galera-3
<rbasak> #action rbasak to summarise all TB-necessary DMB tasks to infinity
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to summarise all TB-necessary DMB tasks to infinity
<rbasak> #action rbasak to add otto to ~ubuntu-dev
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add otto to ~ubuntu-dev
<rbasak> #action rbasak to announce otto's successful application
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to announce otto's successful application
<rbasak> #topic Decide on how to implement suggestions from the CC meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Decide on how to implement suggestions from the CC meeting
<rbasak> So we had our catchup with the CC last week.
<rbasak> One comment from them was a concern that announcements were getting lost. I said we'd sort something out.
<sil2100> I guess we all need to just follow all 'After the meeting' steps in the agenda
<infinity> I know I forgot to announce juliank's core-dev thing cause he and I both got sucked back into Debconf right after the meeting.
<rbasak> I propose that we make sure to add explicit meeting actions for successful applicants, including the announcement to the news team, etc. We seem to be quite good at following up meeting actions (in the end) with meetingology's help.
<rbasak> So then we'd be using something we're fairly good at doing to make sure we get stuff done.
<rbasak> (which is why I added a bunch of actions above)
<sil2100> rbasak: fair enough
<rbasak> So the only change is that the chair needs to make sure to add actions immediately after an applicant is approved. Then hopefully we won't forget.
<rbasak> An alternative suggestion from the CC was using a Kanban style thing somewhere, but I prefer just using meetingology.
<rbasak> Any other alternative suggestions, or objections to my proposal?
<rbasak> I'll assume we're agreed then?
<bdmurray> works for me
<rbasak> #agreed Future meeting chairs will individual actions for approved applicants to make sure they don't get missed, including to inform the news team of successful applicants.
<rbasak> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
<rbasak> How do we want to proceed with chair selection?
<infinity> Just go alpha from you, and we'll fix this.
<rbasak> OK.
<rbasak> So that means infinity is next
<rbasak> :-)
<rbasak> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<infinity> And from now on, if someone misses, the next in line (who's present) chairs, and on the wiki, mark "next: (jerk who skipped), backup: (next alpha from today's)"
<infinity> If that makes sense?
<rbasak> Yes, until we have multiple outstanding skips ;-)
<rbasak> But that's certainly a start so is fine.
<rbasak> So BenC is the backup for now I guess?
<infinity> Wait, we're doing alpha by... What?
<infinity> TB, we do "LP sort order".
<rbasak> By first name apparently. That's how it is in the wiki currently.
<infinity> Which would be sil, then me, then ben.
<infinity> Oh.
<infinity> Whacky.
<infinity> Kay.
<sil2100> Yeah, I always saw it being alpha by first-name
<rbasak> I think it's easy enough just to not bother changing it.
<infinity> Works for me.
<rbasak> OK
<infinity> Just can't use LP as my dictionary. ;)
<rbasak> Any other AOB?
<infinity> I NEED TO SING THE ALPHABET SONG.
<rbasak> :-)
 * doko mutes
<rbasak> OK then. Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug  1 16:06:35 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-01-15.16.moin.txt
<sil2100> o/
<infinity> doko: EH BEE SEE DEE!!!
<infinity> doko: EE EFF GEEEEEE!!!
<sil2100> Thanks everyone! And thanks rbasak for chairing ;)
 * rbasak is pretty sure it's different for doko
<infinity> rbasak: Indeed, the Germans stole their letters from the French.
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug  1 16:40:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead (we're circle back to Jamie)
<tyhicks> s/we're/we'll/
<mdeslaur> I'm on bug triage this week
<jdstrand> sorry, I'm here
<mdeslaur> I'm still working on php5 updates, I'll probably publish them this week
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be tackling the zillion qemu CVEs
<mdeslaur> that's about it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> I'll have openjdk-7 packages from tiago to test, though it looks like they're currently causing gcc-4.8 on trusty to segfault on arm64, so I need to discuss that with him.
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue I'm working on in the background
<sbeattie> I'm still sifting through the rebuild logs
<sbeattie> Oh, I have a short week, with friday off
<sbeattie> (I'll also be off the first half of next week)
<sbeattie> I'm also working in the background to convert qrt to git
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I think we've hit that gcc segfault a few times now - it needs to be fixed
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I'll try to gather up some of the older failures to see if they're the same as what you're hitting
<sbeattie> tyhicks: okay
<tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead if you're ready
<jdstrand> I'm focused on snappy again this week. I will be looking to fixing bug #1590679 (dbus-bind PR), interfaces in support of the bcc snap, interfaces for browsers and various snappy interface PR reviews
<ubottu> bug 1590679 in Snappy "Apps can't own session bus names (unity7 interface)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590679
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I need to fix up my AppArmor SRU to adjust for a verification failure of a Python utils fix
<tyhicks> I'll be working on seccomp complain mode
<sarnold> :(
<tyhicks> I'll be working on some snap review tools fixes
<tyhicks> I have an embargoed issue
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm trying to wrap up with the apparmor stacking work. Specifically I am still working on the issue of disconnected paths in a stack
<jjohansen> I plan to focus on that and get it done, after that I will pickup the work to upstream this beast
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you're up
<tyhicks> jjohansen: AFAIK, the next thing up should be gsettings mediation
<jjohansen> tyhicks: oh right, ack I can do that next
<tyhicks> jjohansen: I don't think that's changed but lets sync w/ ratliff after the meeting
<tyhicks> go ahead sarnold
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; there may be a few tiny loose ends with barbican left but it won't be much more, the next MIR up is designate, then python-ws4py
<sarnold> that should be it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Firefox 48 this week. I also need to publish oxide from last week
<chrisccoulson> I'm currently debugging a startup crash in the browser on the device with the latest oxide (seems to be a recent change in chromium)
<chrisccoulson> I took a look at bug 1545088 today, but the API I thought I'd be using doesn't actually do what I want. I suspect I'll be spending some time this week trying to figure out a way forward (it blocks lots of bugs)
<ubottu> bug 1545088 in Oxide "Google search page is scaled on window resize" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545088
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> ratliff: you're up
<ratliff> I'm just back from two weeks of sprinting, so I have a fair bit of catch-up work to do and dealing with outcomes from the sprints.
<ratliff> I'll be out this Friday and next Monday.
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> None this week. I've hit some technical difficulties in generating the list.
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug  1 17:04:10 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-01-16.40.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-02
<cpaelzer> o/ ?
<smoser> o/
<smoser> scribe shoudl be gaughen
<smoser> but someone didn't inform her
<smoser> shame on smoser
<smoser> so..
<cpaelzer> providing the third . for a propver ...
 * cpaelzer is handing over a -
<cpaelzer> .
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> smoser: who is next on list who would be here anyway
<cpaelzer> ?
<cpaelzer> or does the honor fall back to you then?
<jgrimm> o/
<smoser> i'll do it. since i didn't tell anyone.
<smoser> so...
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug  2 16:05:58 2016 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> there were no action points from last week
<smoser> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> feature freeze is coming, 2 weeks and 2 days from today
<jgrimm> yikes
<smoser> yeah.
<jgrimm> summer going by entirely too fast
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> nothing new in y
<smoser> please take a gander... if something jumps out at you, let us know (feelf ree to ping me)
<jgrimm> nothing jumping out, i sorted by date on x and nothing new for a while (though we have older stuff that probably needs some triage love at least)
<smoser> k.
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> i asked last week, do we need to update this seciton ?
<smoser> is caribou still doing this ?
<cpaelzer> he just is on vacaction IIRC, should be back next week - no?
<jgrimm> smoser, he has been using this section to talk about server related bugs he is working on
<jgrimm> and what cpaelzer said ^^  i believe still on PTO
<jgrimm> smoser,  i'll take action if you'd like to re-evaluate what we want to accomplish in this section
<jgrimm> i don't know the history, but i do want it to be useful
<smoser> k. we'll move on then
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<powersj> For those who have not noticed, external jenkins is live. I have started triaging automated ISO tests + UTAH. Primarily test issues, not product issues. Filed a few bugs and made a few patches, but have a long way to go.
<smoser> \o/
<jgrimm> nice!
<powersj> Would like to close on simplestreams CI this week and get some automation around image checking. Currently running manual ISO tests for 14.04.5 on i386 and amd64. Nothing major seen yet, but will file issues.
<smoser> powersj, i'll take a gander at your MP
<smoser> url to external jenkins, powersj ?
<powersj> smoser, thx made the one change and just need to close on dependencies
<smoser> for those playing the home game
<powersj> https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<smoser> nice
<jgrimm> indeed!
<smoser> move on then/
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Don't have anything new... Are there questions?
<jgrimm> smb, an expectation when new yakkety kernel will show up? just curious
<smb> I have lost hope in any expectations...
<jgrimm> heh.  no worries, nothing I particularly needed out of it
<smoser> completely un-server related, but /me would find a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1604819 in a new 4.X kernel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1604819 in linux (Ubuntu) "screen goes completely black during usage then comes back" [Undecided,Triaged]
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> anything here ?
<jgrimm> not that i see (looking at LWN CFP calendar)
<smoser> k
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> nothing really
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> if anybody has a sophisticated ntp setup out there - testing xenial proposed for bug 1567540 would be nice
<ubottu> bug 1567540 in ntp (Ubuntu Xenial) "ntpd crashed with SIGABRT (was: ntp crashes everytime the network goes up or down.)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567540
<jgrimm> smoser, since canonical server team will be sprint next week, we should consider cancelling next week's irc meeting??
<rbasak> jgrimm: +1
<smoser> i think so
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> next meeting will be 2 days before feature freeze
<smoser> August 16, 2016 at 16:00:00 UTC
<smoser> thanks for playing.
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug  2 16:26:04 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-02-16.05.moin.txt
<jgrimm> smoser, you forgot rbasak
<smoser> i forgot him ?
<smoser> rbasak, ?
<smoser> i do remember him.
<cpaelzer> hehe
<jgrimm> unless i missed it myself
<cpaelzer> his bugs are our bugs and such topics
<smoser> oh. did i skip a section.
<smoser> oh. whoops
<smoser> seeing that he's not crying to loudly i'm gonna let it go
<jgrimm> :)  yeah, and can catch up in ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> thanks smoser
<rbasak> I was going to mention it. But because most of us will be busy next week, and preparing this week, I'm not sure we'll get much out of it.
<rbasak> Any opinions?
<rbasak> I have some new bugs lined up for example, but I have doubts that they'd get any attention in the next two weeks anyawy.
<jgrimm> rbasak, yup.. let's review next week at sprint
<teward> and of course i'm late
<teward> >.>
<teward> nothing of import to add, but i just hate it when I miss things
<teward> :P
<jgrimm> :) no worries
<teward> jgrimm: though, my latest feud is with comcast - no internet to run testbuilds of additional debdiff modifications I made >.> (I'm only online 'cause i'm borrowing wifi at the workplace)
<teward> (for nginx)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-04
<barry> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<robru> o-
<sil2100> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  4 15:02:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> bdmurray pitti mwhudson robru chiluk barry cyphermox infinity xnox slangasek doko caribou tdaitx sil2100
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> and... go
<sil2100> Phew, will have time to prep my notes at least
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding the haproxy charm, switched one being used
<bdmurray> worked on utilizing swift for ET code storage in mojo spec
<bdmurray> worked on RT re Lift and shift error-tracker staging environment
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for X point release and W EOL
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> reported, fixed update-manager bug regarding hwe-support-status (LP: #1607983)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1607983 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "hwe-support-status --show-replacements shows replacements that are installed" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607983
<bdmurray> built, tested, uploaded update-manager w/ HWE support for Trusty
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> research into adding update-notifier hwe support for Trusty
<slangasek> pitti is off
<slangasek> mwhudson is in the shadow of the sun
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> ah
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * big cache expiry cleanup. better logging, more aggressive purging, purging some caches that were previously overlooked and growing without bound
<robru> * pretty display for merge targets when there are too many
<robru> * fix race condition when deciding when to branch and when to pull local bzr caches
<robru> * fix discovery of arches to consider for regressions when overlay PPA supports fewer arches than distro
<robru> * serialize some overly-parallelized 'bzr missing' invocations that were hammering LP too hard
<robru> * decrease status updater from 15 minutes to 20 minutes also due to too-high load
<robru> * new page that only shows failure logs now that status job is spamming the "all logs" page
<robru> * make britney skip QA-approved tickets in addition to the already skipped britney-approved tickets, halving britney run time from 1hr to 30 minutes.
<robru> * fix race condition where status job reports stale status too soon after build job triggered, so people stop getting confused and building twice in a row for no reason
<robru> * change instance_id from uuid to md5sum of html/js/css assets so forced page reloads stop happening when assets haven't changed
<robru> * several iterations on CSS based on user feedback; now status/signoffs have independant coloring, and icons, rather than trying to choose one color based on the whole ticket status
 * xnox shakes fist at the sun shadow
<slangasek> robru: cache expiry cleanup> so things that were being cached that should have been cleaned up when a ticket was closed out (landed/dropped) but weren't?
<chiluk> lp 1607920 : zfs failure on first boot due to missing /etc/mtab.  Will be fixing upstream to use /proc/self/mounts, and then SRU back into Ubuntu.
<chiluk> Vacation Monday, Tuesday, off again Friday (lasik)
<chiluk> -done-
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1607920 in zfs-linux (Ubuntu) "zfs services fail on firstboot if zfs-utils is integrated into the deployment image" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607920
<barry> ubuntu-image: gadget.yaml branch; snap weld branch; test fixing branches; more-parsing branch; LP: #1605434
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605434 in Ubuntu Image "testsuite calls 'snap weld' multiple times" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605434
<slangasek> "missing /etc/mtab" pff ancient software
<barry> debuntu: voluptuous 0.9.2-1, 9.3-1, syncpackage; xonsh 0.4.4+dfsg-1 sponsorship; zope.interface 4.2.0-2
<barry> --done--
<chiluk> yeah.. it should've been fixed long ago.
<robru> slangasek: yeah some lplib cache files were being kept forever, that got up to 200MBs until I started pruning it, also it was keeping britney indexes forever eg so we had trusty index files despite the fact that no trusty tickets were using britney for a while, so I started cleaning those up
<chiluk> but there's a lot of logic around it and processing it.
<slangasek> robru: oh interesting, I thought lplib did its own cache management properly
<slangasek> well, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if I have a 200MB cache here :)
<robru> slangasek: yeah that was my assumption too but I've been watching the lplib cache expand for a long time, it started at 2MBs and just got bigger and bigger
<robru> slangasek: it was growing by about 2MBs/day, now I delete all files older than 24 hours and the size hovers at 120MB
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - review barbican (bug LP: #1543754)
<cyphermox> - review content-hub (bug LP: #1597453)
<sil2100> Didn't know lplib was such a beast
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543754 in barbican (Ubuntu) "[MIR] barbican, python-pykmip" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543754
<cyphermox> - review libpod-constants-perl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1597453 in content-hub (Ubuntu) "[MIR] content-hub" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1597453
<cyphermox> - review network-manager-openvpn (bug LP: #1574576)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1574576 in network-manager-openvpn (Ubuntu) "[MIR] network-manager-openvpn" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574576
<cyphermox> trusty:
<cyphermox> - NVMe SRU for ubiquity installer (bug LP: #1600308)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1600308 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubiquity targets invalid device name with nvme disks, fails to install grub" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1600308
<cyphermox> xenial:
 * bdmurray thought everybody knew
<robru> sil2100: bileto uses it rather aggressively
<cyphermox> - grub2 efi ipv6 patch backports (bug LP: #1229458)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1229458 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "grubnetx64.efi tftp client does not work over ipv6" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229458
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<cyphermox> - merge / review choose-mirror
<slangasek> yay phone MIRs \o/
<cyphermox> - packagekit 1.1.1 no-change rebuilds
<cyphermox> - discussion/planning shim work with pjones
<cyphermox> - review ubiquity gtk3.20 changes from Laney
<cyphermox> - fixup ubiquity ftbfs and error in nvme regex
<cyphermox> - investigated porting click to packagekit 1.1.1
<cyphermox>   - looks like maybe just a no-change rebuild will do, have yet to test from a PPA package
<robru> my local lplib cache is only 18MBs, heh
<cyphermox> other stuff:
<cyphermox> - setting up snap build for canonical-foundations
<cyphermox> - shim Secure Boot prompting improvements (bug LP: #1595611, bug LP: #1604936)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1595611 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "Improve prompting for Secure Boot password" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595611
<cyphermox> - some NetworkManager DNS issue with VPNs not in split-tunnelling.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1604936 in shim-signed (Ubuntu Xenial) "Please document command-line options with --help and when called incorrectly" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1604936
<cyphermox> - helped out slashd with packaging issues (mostly answering questions)
<cyphermox> - waiting for a shim signature
<cyphermox> yeah, phone MIRs, I'm a bit behind in reviewing MIRs so I took a bite from my list :)
<cyphermox> (done)
 * sil2100 gently pokes infinity 
<slangasek> cyphermox: don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere to you, but the goal from the client side is to have the unity8 stack on the desktop image as a non-default session by 16.10, so there'll be a few more MIRs coming :)
<cyphermox> slangasek: I know! no problem, I don't mind reviewing them
<slangasek> right :)
<sil2100> We moving unity8 stuff to main now?
<slangasek> sil2100: yes
<cyphermox> it takes a bit of time, maybe I'm a little more thorough than I should by doing some code review, but hey
<sil2100> Wow, didn't hear there was a final decision to do that now finally
<sil2100> I might want to help with that
<slangasek> long overdue, and the security team has been looped in to triage things globally wrt what is going to need deep security review and when
 * slangasek pokes infinity less gently than sil2100 
<cyphermox> he wasn't responding earlier, but he pinged me at some insane hour
<xnox> ..
<xnox> boost1.61 update prepared for gcc+icu transition
<xnox> openssl enable asm and apply fixes lp #1601836 also requested the same to be done in debian (maintainers are agreeable to the idea)
<xnox> generate cloud images appx for Ubuntu on Windows
<xnox> 14.04 point release testing (nvme)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1601836 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "Openssl libcrypto performance issue" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1601836
<xnox> sru validation
<xnox> upcoming helping with boost/gcc/icu transition
<xnox> ..
<xnox> .... clearly enabling asm optimisations never causes regressions =) *caugh* but testing so far is solid and everyone else has it enabled
<slangasek> xnox: was the '..' a 'done'?
<cyphermox> isn't it an escape in some weird terminal thing?
<slangasek> xnox, doko: I noticed the thread discussing ABI incompatibilities between gcc5 and gcc6... I think we're going to need to dig into this wrt phone stack ABIs
<slangasek> (not here and now, but imminently)
<slangasek> cyphermox: 8270?
<slangasek>  * last week: CDO midcycle sprint
<slangasek>   * lightning talk demo of snappy first boot experience, it was pretty snappy!
<slangasek>   * discussions around snappy support on 14.04
<slangasek>  * Monday: travel swap
<slangasek>  * Tuesday: email catch-up
<slangasek>  * Wednesday: sick day
<slangasek>  * next:
<slangasek>   * continued mid-cycle braindump
<cyphermox> slangasek: sorry, I 404.
<slangasek>   * continued email catch-up
<slangasek>   * ubuntu-image
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> slangasek, we know boost-regexp is bust, and autopkgtest shows that possibly some kdelibs are bust too. Apperantly they have fixed the bugs in abi-tagging in nested templates or something.
<doko> - GCC 6 now the default
<doko> - gcc 4.9.4 release, package update, gcc 5.4.1 package update
<doko> - boost 1.61 transition
<doko> - fixing build failures related to GCC 6 and boost 1.61
<doko> - pinging people about fixing build failures ...
<doko> - openjdk-8 update
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> xnox: sure; but where "fixed bug" == "break compatibility", we need to have a plan :)
<doko> slangasek, but it will be ugly in any case
<slangasek> it sounds like the gcc6 + boost 1.61 build failures should now be fixed en masse? yes?
<doko> yes, there are "some".
<doko> but let's first finish the transition rebuilds, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/boost1.61.html
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> doko: so I suppose once boost has cleared we want to revisit what's still broken that the phone team needs to look at?
<slangasek> meanwhile
<slangasek> no caribou
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Packaged IcedTea 2.6.7 into openjdk-7-7u111-2.6.7 for Trusty and Precise; tested and provided packages to the security team
<tdaitx> * Had to retry ARM64 build on Trusty 6 times until gcc/g++ didn't segfault (happens on every update as the PPA must use only the -security pocket, version on -updates works fine); tips on how to fix that?
<tdaitx> - Working on 2 regressions from the security updates:
<tdaitx> * JAMVM regression on OpenJDK 7u111
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8u101 Zero VM on armhf (LP: #1609190)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1609190 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/jvm/java-8-openjdk-armhf/jre/bin/java:6:BytecodeInterpreter::run:CppInterpreter::main_loop:CppInterpreter::normal_entry:ZeroEntry::invoke:Interpreter::invoke_method" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1609190
<tdaitx> = AOB
<tdaitx> - Trying to figure out why Network Manager can't restart openvpn when ping-restart is set (seems to be missing the up script or dependencies in the chroot, still debugging that, see https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667611#20); cyphermox, help? =)
<ubottu> Debian bug 667611 in network-manager-openvpn "n-m-openvpn shuts down VPN when openvpn soft-restarts" [Normal,Open]
<doko> slangasek, yes, they have a list, and are apparently starting to fix things
<tdaitx> - Provider will install landline/adsl tomorrow morning (Friday)
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> doko: ok good :)
<cyphermox> oh, hai
<sil2100> oh
<sil2100> Me
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Touch xenial:
<sil2100>   * Coordinating rebuilds of all core clicks for arm64
<sil2100>   * Modifying the livecd-rootfs build hooks to fetch arm64 from a different location
<slangasek> tdaitx: tips on how to fix the -security gcc being broken> get the security team to pull that gcc into the security pocket for you? :)
<sil2100>   * Switching system-image to import the new arm64 rootfs - first frieza arm64 image!
<sil2100>   * Discussing fat-click-package future (consensus: wait for snaps?)
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Trying to refresh packagesets with the packageset script, output strange
<sil2100> - Added mate-hub to the ubuntu-mate packageset
<sil2100> - Releasing the modified goget-ubuntu-touch for new device support
<sil2100> - Looking into backporting libboost1.58 to the overlay as per phone needs
<sil2100> - Staging updated touch seeds to include new packages (indicator-keyboard, account-plugin-owncloud)
<sil2100> - Started backporting golang-1.6 to the overlay as it seems to fix various issues
<sil2100> - Finished work on switching generate-commitlog to the new bileto published_versions
<sil2100> - Validating SRUs for xorg-server and mesa
<sil2100> (got distracted, done)
<tdaitx> slangasek, heh, I will poke them then
<tdaitx> thanks
<slangasek> tdaitx: they may say 'no', of course, but it's the right conversation to have :)
<slangasek> sil2100: an arm64 image? woot!
<sil2100> \o/
<slangasek> sounds like you all had a very productive week without me
<sil2100> Yeah, it doesn't boot quite yet, but it's because we didn't have a working device tarball
<slangasek> should I go away more often? ;)
<slangasek> any questions re: status?
<sil2100> ondra assumed the armhf one should work ;p
<sil2100> Not from me
<slangasek> sil2100: backporting golang-1.6 to the overlay> that seems like it shouldn't be necessary to "backport" given that we have golang-1.6 as an SRU all the way back to trusty.  Do we just need to forward-copy to vivid/wily?
<sil2100> Oh, might be a good idea then, yeah
<sil2100> Didn't know we had that in trusty
 * sil2100 could have checked
<sil2100> I mean, I rarely look 'backwards' for stuff ;)
<sil2100> That would make things rather easy
<slangasek> if we want to do it "properly" then we may have to re-bootstrap in each release; mwhudson would be the one to talk to about that
<slangasek> otherwise, I would be ok in this case with just binary-copying forward from trusty to vivid+wily, provided that infinity won't stab me for this
<sil2100> He's not here so I guess we can just do it, he won't notice ;p
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> sil2100: anyway, fast path to avoid blocking on SRU process would be for you to just do binary copy from trusty to the overlay ppa; it's a completely new package so I *think* it should be safe to copy in without going through a silo
<slangasek> but, of course, you should double-check that it's not going to clobber any other binary packages
<sil2100> I wanted to do that through a silo so that I can do rebuilds of all the packages we need and see if those work ok on vivid
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> then you can binary-copy to a silo instead of to the overlay :-)
<sil2100> SInce we know that golang-1.6 fixed some issues for xenial, and possibly it will fix those on vivid too
<sil2100> Will do, thanks :)
<slangasek> are you intending to change the golang defaults, or just provide golang-1.6 as an alternative?
<slangasek> the latter matches what's been done in trusty, and is probably easier to QA in pieces because only things you know are broken and need rebuilt have to opt-in
<sil2100> Not sure yet, both ways would work fine as we want to use the new golang for all our touch go packages anyway
<sil2100> But yeah, maybe it would be less troublesome to not do a change of defaults
 * slangasek nods
<sil2100> THen we can have more control if anything is broken
<sil2100> +1 on that idea then ;)
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  4 15:34:56 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-04-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<mwhudson> slangasek, sil2100: bootstrapping golang-1.6 in vivid and wily should be easy enough, gccgo is new enough there
<mwhudson> slangasek, sil2100: copy-package -b is even easier though ...
<sil2100> mwhudson: I did a copy-package to a silo already from trusty
<sil2100> mwhudson: it's now about building go packages
<sil2100> Like, those using golang
<mwhudson> ah ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-05
<slavanap> hello. does anyone know how to disable window grouping while I switch the apps via alt+tab?
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-07-31
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<teward> *randomly drops in*
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> Do we have two more?
<sil2100> bdmurray is here too
<bdmurray> I'd expect cyphermox
<sil2100> Yeah, all hope in cyphermox now
<sil2100> ;)
<micahg> o/
<teward> long time no talk, micahg :P
<teward> *returns to silent mode*
<rbasak> Who's chairing?
<sil2100> micahg: o/
<sil2100> I think I chaired the last one, so I'd prefer someone else just for variation
<rbasak> #startmeeting DMB
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks!
<rbasak> No bot?
<sil2100> Oh, hm, no meetingology?
<teward> i think the bot died o.O
<teward> if need be I can take logs for you guys, I log everything anyways :p
<rbasak> Who runs the bot?
<sil2100> No idea, never though about it as it was always here
<rbasak> Let's begin anyway. I'll just pretend the bot is here I guess.
<rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items
<teward> *starts logging to file*
<rbasak> rbasak to reping Aron regarding his request (DONE)
<rbasak> bdmurray, sil2100, rbasak to contact absentee DMB members (bdmurray: DONE, sil2100: DONE)
<rbasak> cyphermox to send his self nomination again (DONE)
<rbasak> rbasak to draft an argument for reducing quorum not head count (DONE)
<rbasak> rbasak to handle flexiondotorg's request for adding mate-hud to the MATE package set
<rbasak> I think cyphermox took this one in the end?
<bdmurray> Yes, I believe he had a follow up question which has been unanswereed.
<rbasak> From my logs I found:
<rbasak> 20:32 <cyphermox> rbasak: I'll do it
<rbasak> 20:33 <cyphermox> (done)
<rbasak> in #ubuntu-release
<rbasak> Ah, and I see the ML reply.
<sil2100> Yeah, through e-mail he mentioned that this is an auto-generated packageset so yeah
<rbasak> So I think we can treat the action done for now at least?
<sil2100> +1
<rbasak> flexiondotorg: please reply on the ML if you need a further action
<bdmurray> Agreed
<rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> #subtopic teward - PPU for znc package - (Application)
<rbasak> teward: o/
<bdmurray> rbasak: Did you follow up with the absentee member you were going to?
<teward> hiya!
<rbasak> bdmurray: oh yes, I did, sorry.
<bdmurray> rbasak: Lets do this application and then talk about the DMB itself.
<rbasak> ack
<sil2100> I must say that I did not have time to look at teward's application as it was submitted a few days before the meeting
<teward> we can postpone it to next if you wish
<rbasak> I had a look at it earlier.
<teward> i realized after the fact i should've specified next meeting.
<sil2100> So if we are to review the candidate I'd need some time to look into it
<rbasak> While we're here, I did have some questions for teward about his application though.
<rbasak> Clearing that up might help others consider the application perhaps?
<teward> rbasak: feel free to ask, or send them my way via email :)
<sil2100> teward: also, I generally see no endorsements for your application - who was the main sponsor of your uploads?
<sil2100> We like endorsments
<sil2100> A lot ;)
<rbasak> teward: I looked and didn't see any recent upload sponsorships. Usually we expect those in any application.
<rbasak> teward: and since usually we expect to grant upload access in order to unblock someone by no longer having to go by a sponsor, I wasn't really able to follow why you were applying.
<rbasak> teward: so perhaps you could give us some more background on that please?
<bdmurray> FWIW I don't see any SRUs of znc either.
<teward> bdmurray: we'd be looking far back into history, to find those - the package has been stbale for the longest time, but is *old* in Ubuntu for the most part (devel is usually a bit behind on bugfixes)
<teward> actually, can we move those questions to ML or next meeting?
<teward> something just exploded at work and I have to go do emergency maintenance
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> Let's postpone for now then.
<teward> sorry to say "move to next meeting or ML"
<rbasak> #agreed Applicaton postponed
<sil2100> teward: sure, I guess it's even better since I'd like you to add a few missing bits to your application
<sil2100> teward: let me get back to you on that later
<teward> ack
<teward> bdmurray: i'll dig for the 'latest' upload and SRU, there's been not many releases between history and now, though you'll find one in 2016-03-17 sponsored by rbasak for 1.6.3-1 to xenial-proposed.
<teward> *disappears to do critical systems maintenance*
<rbasak> No more applications, so we have ML requests and the more general DMB itself topic remaining
<teward> I will have a copy of the IRC logs though if you need them.
<rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
<rbasak> I don't see any. Am I missing something?
<rbasak> "packageset refresh for kubuntu"
<rbasak> Did that happen?
<sil2100> hm, can't remember anymore
<sil2100> Are we still getting the diffs of those per cyphermox scripts?
<rbasak> I'm not sure. It'd be nice if cyphermox were here to discuss it.
<rbasak> Shall we postpone that one for now?
<rbasak> So that's everything I think.
<rbasak> #topic DMB itself
<cyphermox> moo?
<teward> rbasak: update: I'll retract my PPU request - the package is mostly stable and doesn't need much maintenance except syncs and occasional patching.
<teward> most of which is security.
<teward> sorry.
<cyphermox> oh, the packageset diff
<teward> so strike that from the agenda for future.
<teward> cc: sil2100 ^
<teward> (disappears)
<rbasak> teward: OK, thanks. Note that if you keep having to do syncs, I think it's reasonable to ask for upload access so you can stop using a sponsor.
<teward> rbasak: i'll discuss later at next PPU application when I have more endorsements and stuff - that's gonna be next quarter at this rate.
<teward> *disappears again*
<rbasak> So where are we with the DMB's status?
<bdmurray> I was just looking at your last email rbasak
<sil2100> We have 2 expiring nominations
<sil2100> Both are covered by new candidates
<bdmurray> Do the inactive members still want to be active?
<bdmurray> Or rather I guess there are 3 topics re dmb status.
<bdmurray> inactive members
<bdmurray> dmb size
<bdmurray> expiriing members
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> I'm expiring again :0
<sil2100> I talked with infinity and he's not interested in being active
<sil2100> But he's expiring anyway
<sil2100> cyphermox: but you nominated yourself right?
<rbasak> micahg is intrested in being active (and he's here)
<cyphermox> sil2100: I did
<sil2100> So currently, cyphermox and infinity are expiring, but we have 2 candidates: cyphermox and jbicha
<sil2100> So I guess both seats can be occupied ;)
<sil2100> bdmurray: did you talk with BenC ?
<bdmurray> yes and he wants to stay on
<cyphermox> rbasak: as for the packageset update script, looks like I had forgotten to put the address back to t
<sil2100> bdmurray: is there any chance he will be able to participate?
<cyphermox> to the dmb, it was sent only to me this sunday
<cyphermox> (one such report should be coming now)
<sil2100> cyphermox: thanks!
<bdmurray> sil2100: I thought he showed up at the last meeting but we didn't discuss anything
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> Maybe only the later time works for him
<bdmurray> Maybe we should start taking attendence per your suggestion sil2100?
<micahg> yeah, timing is an issue
<bdmurray> I recall we tried to talk about that before but I felt like there were too many choices.
<micahg> yeah
<bdmurray> micahg: Maybe you can suggest what works for you with out timezones in consideration?
<bdmurray> That'll reduce the number of choices we have to vote on.
<sil2100> Yeah, I'm open to propositions for the timing but the current one works for me
<micahg> well, right now I'm good with times, let's check with BenC maybe
<bdmurray> Okay, since I talked to him before I'll do that.
<sil2100> btw. question from DMB formalities as I don't want to look for it in wiki pages: if we have 2 DMB vacancies and 2 candidates, no voting is required, right?
<micahg> in the past that's what we've done, but usually only when it's a reapply or they've already come close to winning an election from what I can remember
<bdmurray> I don't know off the top of my head.
<rbasak> Is it up to us to decide the method of picking members for expired seats? Or the TB's?
<sil2100> Since cyphermox is re-applying, but jbicha is applying for the first time - but since there's no other candidates, voting doesn't seem to make sense?
<rbasak> Ubuntu developers may wish to decide "none of the above". But I'm not aware that's ever been an option in the past.
<rbasak> I'm also not aware of any mechanism to qualify nominations, unlike TB nominations.
<bdmurray> I think sending a notification reminding people what will happen would be good as it may draw out another candidate/
<rbasak> +1
 * bdmurray went out in the woods and forgot how to type
<sil2100> +1
<bdmurray> sil2100: Do you mind doing that?
<sil2100> bdmurray: the reminder about expirations? Sure
<sil2100> You can assign me an action item
<bdmurray> One the bot will record? ;-)
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> One that the person updating the agenda will record I guess ;p
<rbasak> #action sil2100 to send out a DMB nomination reminder, including information about what happens if there are few nominations.
<sil2100> bdmurray: as for attendence, I guess we might have overall attendence listed as per meeting logs, right?
<bdmurray> sil2100: I'm not certain looking at historic information is necessary.
<sil2100> Not sure if it makes sense to formalize the number of how many missed meetings in a row is required to start getting warned about possible 'expiration through inactivity'
<bdmurray> #action bdmurray follow up with BenC regarding meeting times
<sil2100> Anyway, hopefully it seems all better now with the attendence rate
<bdmurray> maybe cyphermox can email us all the friday before? or is the calendar enough?
<bdmurray> maybe we should also monitor meeting lack of attention
<bdmurray> cyphermox: ?
<cyphermox> err, sure?
<cyphermox> I'm not sure how I can email the friday before expiring, there might not be time ;)
<bdmurray> I don't know if its a great idea but I don't look at my Monday schedule on Friday normally so might forget.
<cyphermox> it works for some expiry deadlines, but not all I think
<cyphermox> or I mean, not meaningfully
<bdmurray> cyphermox: I mean about the meeting time.
<cyphermox> the calendar should be sending us reminders
<bdmurray> okay
<cyphermox> i would be crazy for me to create a calendar reminder for me to send a reminder
<rbasak>  I really think that things to help people attend need to be driven by, or at least decided in association with, people who have the attendance issues. And they're not here.
<bdmurray> heh
<cyphermox> I think we're trying to fix a problem that we won't have provided the people in the board care.
<cyphermox> ie. we can ping each other on IRC and that typically works for most things, does it not?
<cyphermox> if you don't heed a calendar reminder and then a ping, you're either busy with something else or otherwise unable to attend
<cyphermox> (or don't care, and then the CoC says you should be stepping down considerately)
<bdmurray> Okay, so lets work on sorting out the expiring members and query Ben about a different meeting time.
<bdmurray> I think we should still talk about what to do if quorum reaching is hard, but not necessarily act on it.
<cyphermox> bdmurray: presumably people are still reachable, we can ask them if they still care, and do elections earlier
<cyphermox> I mean, I agree that we need to have a plan or an idea what to do, but not sure there is any recurring action to do or process to install to enforce attendance. If we need to force attendance it means we're not staffed correctly in the first place
<bdmurray> I didn't mean enforcing attendance rather being more proactive when members don't show up. "Hey, we missed you at the meeting is the time still okay? ..."
<bdmurray> I think we let this lack of attendance issue go on for too long.
<cyphermox> yes ok
<bdmurray> I've got another meeting soon, anything else?
<cyphermox> my point is, isn't that something we can sort at a meeting when it happens? let's say someone misses two meetings in a row without sending apology prior; we can hand an action to someone then
<rbasak> That's pretty difficult when we don't have meetings because we haven't made quorum.
<rbasak> Anyway, I think we've reached the useful end of this discussion.
<bdmurray> Is there a rule that we can't have meeting if we don't have quorum? I think we can't just vote on stuff.
<rbasak> I'm not sure we're going to reach consensus on this, so if there's any action that needs taking, perhaps we need to continue discussion the ML.
<rbasak> Any objections to finishing the meeting now?
<cyphermox> no
<bdmurray> No
<rbasak> #endmeeting
<cyphermox> indeed, we can still have meeting, just can't vote
<rbasak> I'll sort out the minutes.
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<bdmurray> thanks rbasak!
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> no bot today
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> last week I was most busy getting through sprint outcomes and being responsive to snapd PRs. I also ended up being quite busy with several forum topics related to policy denials
<jdstrand> this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - be responsive to snapd PRs
<jdstrand> - review the big udev tagging PR
<jdstrand> - pick up the wayland interface
<jdstrand> - start working through a new (desktop?) interface for gnome-shell, plasma, sway
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week again
<mdeslaur> I'm about to publish an imagemagick regression fix
<mdeslaur> and I have rabbitmq-server updates to push out
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: tag, you're it
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I have an openjdk-8 regression update to publish
<sbeattie> and presumably will have an openjdk-7 coming shortly
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue
<sbeattie> I'll go through the list looking for other issues.
<sbeattie> I have a minor backlog of qrt issues to go through.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: over to you
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I'll likely be responding to feedback from the seccomp logging kernel patches that I sent out last friday
<tyhicks> I am going to look at the fscrypt tests that run as part of `make check` to determine which ones are appropriate to run as part of the package build
<tyhicks> that'll hopefully allow me to upload the fscrypt package to artful
<tyhicks> then I'll start looking at the PR for pam_fscrypt
<tyhicks> I still need to familiarize myself with the LSM stacking patch set
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I still working on revising the networking/unix socket patches for upstreaming
<jjohansen> I need to spend some time looking at the 4.13 LSM stacking patches
<jjohansen> and I also need to spend some time looking at the IMA namespacing thread
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I also hope to review an apparmor patch or two, and run down the MIRs as I can
<sarnold> that's it for me, I didn't see chris coulson, nor ratliff, so I'm guessing leosilva?
<leosilva> I worked in some updates last week, found/fixed a davfs2 issue with apache2 update
<leosilva> today I want to publish them and during the week search for new updates to do
<leosilva> that is for me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back toyou
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/atril.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdigidoc.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjgroups-java.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ldns.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/minizip.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<leosilva> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-01
<rharper> o/
<slashd> o/
<rbasak> o/
<smb> o/
<ahasenack> o/
<nacc> o/ sorry
<rharper> meeting sneak attack!
<nacc> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology`> Meeting started Tue Aug  1 16:05:23 2017 UTC.  The chair is nacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug  1 16:05:23 2017 UTC.  The chair is nacc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<nacc> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<nacc> hrm, two bots :/
<nacc> noise aside -- did anyone get to their action items? :)
<rbasak> Yesterday we had no bots :-/
<powersj> o/
<nacc> specifically, myself (no), rbasak and rharper
<rharper> nacc: I've done one that should be marked done
<rbasak> No, sorry. Please carry over.
<rharper> the release notes have a pointer to the updated network config
<rbasak> It is working its way up my list
<nacc> rharper: ok
<rharper> I've punted on the serverguide one
<nacc> rbasak: ok
<nacc> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rharper> I had also updated the irc paste examples topoint to the trello link instead of blueprints
<nacc> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rharper> I think those were the two actions I've completed
<nacc> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology`> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<nacc> #done rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<rharper> thx
<nacc> rharper: so punting on serverguide --> means it shoudl be dropped from the wiki?
<nacc> rharper: just let me know and i'll update the wiki
<nacc> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<nacc> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> feature freeze in about 3 weeks
<nacc> please check grep-merges, etc. to be sure you're caught up on TIL work
<nacc> #subtopic Current Work
<nacc> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<nacc> we agreed to put numactl (binary) on the ISOs, I'll be updating the seeds today
<nacc> LP: #1700826
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700826 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Zesty) "please include numactl on the ubuntu-server iso" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700826
<rharper> nacc: it means it's more work to add a new section (and finding the right place for it; there isn't a cloud-init section at all, so it might be strange to put a single entry without more content)
<nacc> rharper: ack, so i think that means deletion? :)
<nacc> (of the task)
<rharper> or replacing it with the larger one (add cloud-init section to the serverguide)
<rharper> which is debatable w.r.t cloud-init in the serverguide
<nacc> ack
<nacc> #subtopic Release Bugs
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> that's a small list
<nacc> yeah, we don't really use that list that extensively
<nacc> moving on...
<nacc> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<slashd> Business as usual for us, no ongoing SRU. Everything ongoing has been released in -updates this early this morning by Adam (before the 16.04.3 release freeze of this week).
<slashd> We are still working on the main inclusion of "pcp". We will resume the work once dgadomski come back from conference/vacation, since he was working on the autopkgtest scripts creation.
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<nacc> slashd: thanks!
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week, worked on developing my DebConf presentation and various infrastructure work. This week, Xenial ISO testing and more cloud-init work.
<nacc> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> questions?
<nacc> moving on :)
<nacc> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Artful kernel: planning to move to a 4.12 kernel after the current 4.11 in proposed goes to updates. Work on 4.13 started. Are there questions?
<nacc> moving on :)
<nacc> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<nacc> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<nacc> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<nacc> #link https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/containers-micro-conference-at-linux-plumbers-2017/262
<nacc> nothing immediately stands out
<nacc> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<nacc> nothing currently planned, afaik
<nacc> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<nacc> 3
<nacc> 2
<nacc> 1
<nacc> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<nacc> smoser is up to chair, same time & place, next week
 * smoser will need a rain check
<smoser> i will be out for 2 weeks.
<nacc> rbasak: you ok to go next?
<rbasak> ack
<nacc> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-08-08 at 1600 UTC, chair will be rbasak
<nacc> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Tue Aug  1 16:18:14 2017 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-01-16.05.moin.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug  1 16:18:14 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-01-16.05.moin.txt
<nacc> thanks everyone
<ahasenack> thx nacc
<powersj> thx nacc
<chiluk> smoser, rbasak, rharper, the server team meeting that just ended should probably get added to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars
<smoser> ah the fridge.
<smoser> i agree
 * nacc has never been entirely sure who uses fridge and who does not
<chiluk> nacc.. those of us who want to participate who are no longer with Canonical is who..
<nacc> chiluk: :) makes sense, that was never made explicit to me before (let's say, lack of onboarding :)
<nacc> chiluk: i agree then, though, it should be added
<chiluk> nacc.. no worries... welcome to the Ubuntu party..
<chiluk> I'm proably one of the few that will actually be attending these that are non-canonical.
<chiluk> ogasawara: .. you might consider removing the k-team meeting from http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars  ... although that makes me very sad...
<smoser> nacc, i updated the ubuntu server team calendar event to invite the fridge
<smoser> but at the moment i dont see it on the calendar still
<nacc> smoser: thanks
<nacc> smoser: i see it now
<smoser> ah. there we go. thanks chiluk
<chiluk> thanks guys
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-03
<sil2100> o/
<rbalint1> o/
<fginther> o/
<infinity> \o
<tdaitx> \o
<gaughen> o/
<rbalint> o/ again
<rcj> o/
<cyphermox> alright alright
<xnox> any minute now
<xnox> \o
<gaughen> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  3 15:06:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<meetingology`> Meeting started Thu Aug  3 15:06:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> gaughen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/foundations.html
<gaughen> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<gaughen> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<gaughen> Odd_Bloke philroche doko rbalint tribaal mwhudson sil2100 infinity tdaitx bdmurray xnox slangasek cyphermox rcj fginther
<gaughen> Odd_Bloke, you're up
<Odd_Bloke> * Contributed a Jinja2 templating backend to jenkins-job-builder
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked on revamping GCE cloud image publication
<Odd_Bloke> * Other cloud build system stuff
<xnox> * fixed astroid in artful
<Odd_Bloke> * Something something coffee beer
<Odd_Bloke> next
<Odd_Bloke> philroche:
<gaughen> philroche, it's you
<philroche> - Automated promotion
<philroche>     - clean up of old builds
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> rbalint:
<gaughen> doko, you got words for us?
<doko> - perl transition and no-change rebuilds
<doko> - addressing more binutils 2.29 regressions
<doko> - addressed ocaml fix on arm64
<doko> - GCC 7.2 release candidate
<doko> - cross compiler updates
<doko> - traveled to DebCamp/DebConf
<doko> - will be in Montreal until end of next week
<doko> - will start the GCC 7 transition tomorrow ...
<doko> - openjdk 9 update
<doko> (done)
<rbalint> * short week again :-(
<rbalint> * started libevent transition in Debian and Ubuntu, now at 88% in Ubuntu
<rbalint> * http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/html/libevent-2.1.html
<rbalint> * fixed libevent transition related bugs
<rbalint> * further fixes for unattended-upgrades
<rbalint> (done)
<gaughen> sil2100, it's you!
<sil2100> Ohhh
<sil2100> - Hate hot summer weeks, productivity lowered
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews (multiple linux-azure versions)
<sil2100> - DMB meeting, discussions regarding quorum and attendence rates
<sil2100> - Helping out with some packaging advice for the STS team
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Fix up issues with the hook mechanism being stupid, correcting tests
<sil2100>   * Reviews and code-advice for Gary working on the ubuntu-image for classic bits
<sil2100> - 16.04.3:
<sil2100>   * Queue reviews
<sil2100>   * Prepared the changes list, sorted and cleaned up
<sil2100>   * Tested mythbuntu, ubuntu-gnome iso's
<sil2100> - Patch pilot session, sponsored stuff for budgie, forced syncs, looked into merges
<sil2100> - Tested the google-cloud-sdk in artful-proposed, poked Google for SRU testing
<sil2100> - Fixed my bugmail gmail filters
<sil2100> - Endorsed Balint's core-dev application
<sil2100> - KPIs:
<sil2100>   * Fixed the sru-metrics and got it merged
<sil2100>   * Added the fancy graphs on grafana, learned from Brian all the final bits
<sil2100> (done)
<gaughen> infinity
<infinity>  * Xenial 16.04.3 work all week, pushing to mirrors, announcement soon.
<infinity>  * Working with Andy to get the artful kernel moving.
<infinity>  * General AA/SRU tasks.
<infinity> (done)
<gaughen> tdaitx
<tdaitx> * one security update in openjdk 8u141 had a regression; confirmed that we were affected by it, confirmed that 8u144 fixed that, updated, packaged, retested and then provided it to the security team; already released for Zesty and Xenial
<tdaitx> * packaged 8u144 for Debian + aarch32 hotspot (mostly while waiting for the openjdk-7 builds)
<tdaitx> - aarch32 required a few additional patches to the root and jdk modules
<tdaitx> - fixed libarch to use jre/lib/arm instead of jre/lib/aarch32
<tdaitx> - tested nopch builds on Trusty to get less g++-4.8 segfaults on arm64, so the build eventually pass after a few retries
<tdaitx> - tried to get a core file from the builder for such segfaults, no such luck
<tdaitx> - tested pch builds on artful; Xenial and Zesty are next
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 still failing the build with the security backport
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> bdmurray, go go go
<bdmurray> review of sil2100's SRU count KPI PR
<bdmurray> review of odd_bloke's rls-** counter KPI PR
<bdmurray> studied Ubuntu Server KPI setup documentation
<bdmurray> learned about canonical-server jenkins-jobs and its relation to metrics
<bdmurray> submitted PR re metrics README.md and juju setup
<bdmurray> submitted/merged PR re metric of age of SRUs and corresponding jenkins-job
<bdmurray> updated Server KPI setup documention re: jenkins-jobs
<bdmurray> SRU team work
<bdmurray> discussion with tdaitx regarding apport-package crash creation
<bdmurray> investigation into / manual retracing of failed LP retracer retraces
<bdmurray> review of testing documentation regarding deleting metrics from prometheus
<bdmurray> review of Certbot SRU special policy
<bdmurray> HIGHLIGHT: wrote a blog post re: testing unsupported release upgrade paths
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> xnox: your turn
<gaughen> xnox,
<xnox> Debugging and fixing systemd adt tests, making them more reliable.
<xnox> Fixing degraded boots in lxd containers.
<xnox> Fixing s390-tools / util-linux  conflict.
<xnox> Writing up WSL docs.
<xnox> Filing many removal bugs, to drop u8 packages.
<xnox> Tested s390x 16.04.3 it's fine.
<xnox> Fix network-console for compat with ssh sandbox.
<xnox> Cleaned up RAX bugs / salesforce.
<xnox> Off to debconf on Sunday.
<xnox> done.
<cyphermox> my turn then?
<cyphermox> artful:
<cyphermox> - Fixing tasksel tasks being shadowed by Debian's (print-server mainly) (bug LP: #1624519)
<cyphermox> - discussed netplan/systemd/etc. device states and wait-online
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624519 in tasksel (Ubuntu Artful) "Debian-defined tasks override Ubuntu-defined ones" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624519
<cyphermox> - investigating util-linux vs. nplan ADT test failures on i386
<cyphermox> - update-secureboot-policy automated signing
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] blogged on Secure Boot signing (how-to)
<cyphermox> - upstream shim bugfixing
<cyphermox> - verifying ubiquity SRU (oem-config mangling resolvconf) (bug LP: #1646585)
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1646585 in Nvidia "oem-config replaces /etc/resolv.conf symlink with a hard file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646585
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> - Automated cloud-image promotion
<rcj> - New GCE publication design review
<rcj> - coffee coffee breakfast taco
<rcj> done
<fginther> * Fix publication of trusty vagrant images
<fginther> * Automated image publication workflow improvements
<fginther>   * Only publish daily download images for valid candidates
<fginther> done
<fginther> done:done
<gaughen> any questions on any of the info above?
<sil2100> D O N E
<gaughen> so done
<sil2100> Thunder dome?
<Odd_Bloke> Thunder done.
<infinity> Thunder pants?
<cyphermox> chocolate thunda.
<gaughen> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<infinity> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283054/
<bdmurray> bug 1707880 - xnox why incoming and not tracking for that?
<ubottu> bug 1707880 in debhelper (Ubuntu Zesty) "newly installed additional units are not started on upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707880
<xnox> bdmurray, i think i got confused w.r.t. which tags should be used.
<xnox> bdmurray, imho this is something we must fix, if not generically in debhelper; then at least specifically in apt.
<xnox> what tag is that?
<bdmurray> xnox: its not a tag but adding a release task
<xnox> updated
<chiluk> infinity .. thanks for that.
<bdmurray> xnox: And what about these other couple of systemd ones you added?
<infinity> chiluk: It's a great film.
<bdmurray> given that the test failures are blocking the package from moving out of -proposed I think we should target them to the release
<gaughen> agreed
<bdmurray> that's it for the new aa-incoming bugs
<gaughen> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  3 15:28:31 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-03-15.06.moin.txt
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Thu Aug  3 15:28:31 2017 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-03-15.06.moin.txt
<sil2100> On the DMB meeting we had no meetingology, now we have two
<sil2100> Nice
<cyphermox> "yay"
<xnox> bdmurray, i think part of the reason for incomming tag was to talk about these bugs.
<xnox> rather than just target and forget.
<bdmurray> xnox: okay, that makes sense
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-04
<CCMmember928> Hi.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-07-30
<slashd> o/
<rbasak> o/
<jbicha> o/
<tsimonq2> o/
<rbasak> We have quorum. Who will chair?
<rbasak> I have a meeting at quarter past the hour. Though I think I can probably multitask, I would like to avoid chairing in case I hold things up then.
<sil2100> I'm around but busy with .5
<sil2100> Very busy
<tsimonq2> I have a meeting that was scheduled for now but the other individual is late... so no guarantees.
<slashd> We have an applicant today I think
<rbasak> blackboxsw: here?
<jbicha> um, I guess I can chair
<jbicha> give me a moment to look up the commands
<jbicha> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 30 15:06:16 2018 UTC.  The chair is jbicha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<blackboxsw> hello hello rbasak
<blackboxsw> yep, just back from 2 week vacation o/
<slashd> jbicha, I can chair the next one, I never did it yet.
<tsimonq2> I can take the one after that then.
<jbicha> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<jbicha> * cyphermox to sort out ML / IRC channel accesses
<jbicha> I believe that's all taken care of
<jbicha> #topic Package Set / Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Package Set / Per Package Uploader Applications
<jbicha> #subtopic blackboxsw requesting PPU for cloud-init & curtin
<jbicha> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChadSmith/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication
<blackboxsw> thanks jbicha.
<jbicha> blackboxsw: could you start by introducing yourself? :)
<blackboxsw> certainly...
<blackboxsw> I'm a member of the Canonical server team and work closely with Scott Ryan and Josh as primary contributors of cloud-init and curtin  upstream
<blackboxsw> I've been at Canonical since Nov 2011 and worked with Landscape, Charm Curtin and cloud-init
<blackboxsw> sorry typo..  Landscape, maas juju, openstack curtin and cloud-init in my time here.
<blackboxsw> I love system management problems and improving enterprise software to make it easier to use and understand.
<blackboxsw> I've been exclusively on the ubuntu server team since Apr 2017 I believe and focused solely on cloud-init and curtin.
<blackboxsw> prior to Canonical I was at HP in the open source and linux lab setting up system management on HP Itanium and ProLiant as well as HP cloud infrastructure(devops)
<blackboxsw> also, a soccer fan, and former competitive ultimate frisbee player  :)
<jbicha> blackboxsw: I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/~chad.smith/+uploaded-packages and I see 2 uploads for cloud-init (and SRUs) and 2 for curtin
<blackboxsw> jbicha: that view only shows latest of any packege/series  since Debian's retirement of alioth  we couldn't search upload history well for ubuntu packages so I wrote a script to help folks
<slashd> jbicha, there is more than that here: https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Chad+Smith&sponsoree_search=name
<jbicha> I think normally the DMB expects more sponsored uploads before granting direct upload rights
<blackboxsw> it's linked from my proposal let me get it
<blackboxsw> and please feel free to use the script :)
<blackboxsw> for others since that app is dead
<blackboxsw> jbicha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChadSmith/PackageUploads
<blackboxsw> I thought about writing a simple web microservice to host basically the same querystring search terms as the old   ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi which no longer exists
<blackboxsw> I may get to that soon, but vacation got in the way :)
<blackboxsw> ahh thanks for th enew link for ubuntu-sponsorships.... I thought it was dead and gone
<blackboxsw> sorry,  launchpad seems to limit the uploaded-packages view to only the latest release per series
<blackboxsw> slashd: I hadn't known about that app showing up. thanks
<slashd> blackboxsw, yw
<blackboxsw> hey ahasenack
<ahasenack> fly on the wall
<slashd> blackboxsw, can you tell me a few thing things you would look at as a sponsor before uploading a patch in the upload queue and why ?
<blackboxsw> slashd: I'm all about tooling and generating documented, repetitive results. So, most of the work I'm doing for cloud-init and curtin is to improving tooling and automated documentation around our SRU upload process. Limit our SRU exceptions by making our automated and manual testing  simpler and faster so we can cover more integration friction points
<blackboxsw> I've started extending tooling to allow us to launch instances on various clouds for integration testing, improved our customer visible documentation content on cloudinit.readthedocs.orc and curtin.readthedocs.org and been the primary driver and test validation developer during most of the last 5 cloud-init srus.
<blackboxsw> what I'm hoping to do is keep smoser out of the equation when we actually have to physically upload the bits after SRU validation has passed on all platforms. :)
<blackboxsw> we can't have a single point of failure on curtin or cloud-init and I want to allow us to have more than one person who can fix the products of critical public-facing issues arise
<blackboxsw> in case someone gets sick. which scott never does :)
<slashd> blackboxsw, good where would you look for a package stuck in -proposed for more than 2 weeks for instance ?
<blackboxsw> also, I've started building a history of our SRU validation tests which help us better collect and document scripts developed to test certain feature aspects and results  so we can leverage them into some of our automated tooling.   https://github.com/cloud-init/ubuntu-sru/tree/master/20180620
<blackboxsw> I collect that content for each SRU so when we get enough use-cases we can develop integration tests that cover certain features in our  CI.
<tsimonq2> blackboxsw: After slashd's question, where would you go to look if an SRU has regressed and has not been fully phased in?
<blackboxsw> slashd: not sure if you were asking about queues
<blackboxsw> I generally check the following during SRU process: ttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=cloud-init
<blackboxsw> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=cloud-init    for each series under test
<slashd> blackboxsw, the package has is built in -proposed, verification-done-$RELEASE, the 7 days waiting is done, but package doesn't move into -update for instance
<blackboxsw> if something was stuck there I'd bing in ubuntu-devel channel so ask for assistance
<blackboxsw> I normally also look over the age and related bugs @ https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<slashd> blackboxsw, thanks
<tsimonq2> blackboxsw: Thanks.
<blackboxsw> for each series I've targeted, make sure that I've tagged those bugs accordingly once I finish attaching validation results
 * rbasak has a couple of questions when you're ready
<blackboxsw> so I thought there was an sru regresson tag like sru-verification-failed if I did hit a regression bug during testing
<blackboxsw> like"verification-failed-$RELEASE"
<blackboxsw> per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<blackboxsw> tsimonq2: was that your question? I would tag it sru-verification-failed to ensure it didn't get phased in.
<blackboxsw> or just the pending-sru.html dashboard as the place to validate status of a queued sryu
<blackboxsw> or just the pending-sru.html dashboard as the place to validate status of a queued sru
<blackboxsw> rbasak: fire away
<tsimonq2> blackboxsw: Correct, but let's say an SRU team member lets it into -updates. It goes through a phasing process before actually being landed to all users.
<tsimonq2> Where do you find the status of that?
 * rbasak holds on
<blackboxsw> ahh. I actually don't know where to look for that
<blackboxsw> rmadison tells me once package has actually published to -updates... but hmm
<tsimonq2> blackboxsw: For future reference, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html and http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=127 are worth looking into.
<tsimonq2> That's it for me.
<blackboxsw> I can find that the package is in accepted state in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=cloud-init   ... but hmm
<jbicha> blackboxsw: btw, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Phasing
<blackboxsw> ahh good deal, bookmarking now thanks tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> jbicha's link too; that's where I got to both links.
<rbasak> blackboxsw: how would you handle a feature release to cloud-init that happens after feature freeze in Ubuntu?
<blackboxsw> since cloud-init has an SRU exception, I would go through the exception testing process for cloud-init documented here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CloudinitUpdates
<blackboxsw> if it is a large changeset, not a single cherry pick of a bug, I would create an SRU process bug like the following...
<blackboxsw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1777912
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1777912 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Bionic) "sru cloud-init (18.2-4-g05926e48-0ubuntu1) to (18.3-9ubuntu1)" [Medium,Fix committed]
<blackboxsw> within it we have to capture any ubuntu-specific functional changes made from a documentation standpoint
<blackboxsw> minimally we allow CI to cover most cases (which integration tests on lxd,ec2 and kvm platforms, and we manually integration test  on platforms like : azure, gce,  openstack
<blackboxsw> I do clean install and  upgrade testing on each platform to make sure we don't have regresssions during that process for instances or 'pets' which are upgraded
<blackboxsw> *new* instances or 'pets'
<tsimonq2> blackboxsw: What about in the development release of Ubuntu, prior to it being declared stable?
<blackboxsw> after verification is done and all logs attached to the SRU bug pass, we request validation from MAAS and CDOQA
<blackboxsw> there's an exception process that we went through this last time I thought. I'll see if I can dig that up. in this case for IBM we had a bug that needed fixing after bionic transitioned after feature freeze.
<blackboxsw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<rbasak> OK, thanks. Second question: have you ever done an SRU that isn't a backport from a latest upstream release? Or a development upload that isn't a new upstream release?
<blackboxsw> so the FFE required an FFE bug and then a resulting set of verification steps.
<blackboxsw> rbasak: I believe I've been involved in at least two cloud-init SRUs that were cherry picks of individual bugs backported to a given series. there was content in tip that we didn't want to leak back to xenial or artful  as it changed behavior.
<blackboxsw> we have tooling in both cloud-init and curtin to support cherry picks or upstream snapshots very easily
<rbasak> blackboxsw: would you be able to find me an example of one of those uploads please?
<blackboxsw> depending on the need. but for all of the content we currently allow into tip/trunk we make sure we develop a simple config switch or enable tiny patch to allow the default behavior of a feature to be preserved in the stable releases.
<smoser> 17.2-35-gf576b2a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.2
<blackboxsw> rbasak: cloud-init (18.2-4-g05926e48-0ubuntu1~16.04.2) xenial-proposed; urgency=medium
<rbasak> Thanks
<blackboxsw> my version was IBM specific changes into xenial
<blackboxsw> trying to find others
<blackboxsw> thanks smoser
<blackboxsw> true and smoser's was a break that a community contribution  introduced into Google's datasource which dropped all user-data :/
<blackboxsw> so we had to patch that up quick and didn't want to leak all of tip into xenial
<jbicha> blackboxsw: maybe a bit off-topic, butâ¦ I'm familiar with cloud-init but could you explain more about what curtin is for? it's not installed by default in Ubuntu Server, is it?
<blackboxsw> jbicha: curtin is a simple/fast installer for ubuntu onto baremetal, it's primary consumer at the moment is maas.
<smoser> (if you search for 04.2 at https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/tree/debian/changelog?h=applied/ubuntu/xenial-devel you'll see many of Chad's cherry-pick uploads)
<blackboxsw> it allows you to quickly configure network and storage and deploy ubuntu images very quickly as well as passthrough additional cloud-init configuration to the target machine
<jbicha> thanks, I haven't really used MAAS much :)
<jbicha> last call for questionsâ¦
<blackboxsw> also it's used by the subiquity installer too (again that'll be under-the-hood for most users).
<jbicha> ok
<jbicha> #vote Grant blackboxsw PPU for cloud-init & curtain
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant blackboxsw PPU for cloud-init & curtain
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<tsimonq2> jbicha: You probably have to set the people that can vote first.
<rbasak> blackboxsw is technically my colleague, though we don't cross paths much (working in different areas). I intend to follow my usual method of abstaining unless there is a unanimous vote and I need to vote to make quorum.
<jbicha> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jbicha
<blackboxsw> heh s/curtain/curtin :)
<jbicha> blackboxsw: I told you I wasn't familiar with it! ð³ thanks
<blackboxsw> we'll have to get broader market adoption.... I'll add it to my list ;)
<tsimonq2> I would typically abstain because I don't already have upload access to these packages myself, but since I think we're short enough people on the DMB for this meeting, I'll go ahead and vote.
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<tsimonq2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tsimonq2
<rbasak> sil2100: able to vote?
<sil2100> One moment
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<jbicha> rbasak: ^
<rbasak> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from rbasak
<jbicha> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant blackboxsw PPU for cloud-init & curtain
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<blackboxsw> woot! thanks all!
<jbicha> blackboxsw: welcome :)
<slashd> Congrats blackboxsw ! Thanks for you great work on cloud-init
<ahasenack> congrats blackboxsw
<blackboxsw> as always I'll continue to lean on you all if there are questions that arise ;) thanks for all the help in the past
<jbicha> this will also grant you Ubuntu membership
<jbicha> any volunteers to handle adding him to the appropriate groups and setting up the PPU?
<rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Actions_after_a_successful_application is what is needed.
<rbasak> I'll be happy to do it.
<jbicha> #action rbasak to handle setting up PPU for blackboxsw
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to handle setting up PPU for blackboxsw
<jbicha> #topic MOTU applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU applications
<jbicha> Unit193's application is deferred until the next meeting.
<jbicha> Please see the discussion on the list about the pseudonym concern. I think we'll want that to be resolved, at least for Unit193's case, by that meeting.
<jbicha> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<jbicha> Next meeting is scheduled for Monday, August 13 at 19:00 UTC
<jbicha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 30 16:17:32 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-30-15.06.moin.txt
<blackboxsw> thanks rbasak for the setup
<sil2100> o/
<mdeslaur> \o
<ratliff> \o/
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 30 16:32:11 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to Thinh Hoang Quoc (g4mm4) for reporting  a subdomain takeover issue with the discourse.ubuntu.com domain.
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thank you!
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team is hiring. See https://grnh.se/8c0a6c1f1 for more details.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> zzzzz
<mdeslaur> ok, I'll go
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week, and since one of my co-workers is slacking off on some beach somewhere, I'll be doing triage too
<jdstrand> sorry
<mdeslaur> I have some mysql updates to publish
<mdeslaur> and an embargoed issue to test and publish too
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be going down the list as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> This week I plan on working on:
<jdstrand> - miscellaneous snapd reviews (notably, anbox, but also a few others)
<jdstrand> - brand store snap declarations
<jdstrand> - various followups for Debian AppArmor MR reviews
<jdstrand> - an embargoed item
<jdstrand> - kubernetes interface as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me. who is after me, jjohansen?
<jjohansen> I need to finish up with bug 1780227
<jjohansen> need to look into 1783922 and report regression around bind mounts on 4.18
<jjohansen> review sarnold's debconf presentation
<ubottu> bug 1780227 in linux (Ubuntu Bionic) "locking sockets broken due to missing AppArmor socket mediation patches" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780227
<jjohansen> I have david's mount patches to review, and mjg's packet labeling patches to review also
<jjohansen> and I am off Wednesday and Thursday so I doubt I will get all of that done
<jjohansen> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'm going to debconf, so much travel, then conference, presentation, and then returning next week. I'm unlikely to have much traction on the xdg portal gtk backend mir, but I'll try to fit some in
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a chromium update to do
<chrisccoulson> I'm also working on an embargoed issue
<chrisccoulson> it's a short week for me this week, but I hope to have thunderbird 60 prepared before I finish too
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm in the happy place this week.
<ratliff> I have internal and embargoed work to do.
<ratliff> leosilva: your turn
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week.
<leosilva> I'm working on the mysql-5.5 update for precise
<leosilva> Other than that I'm on free season hunting new pkgs.
<leosilva> msalvatore: I think is your turn
<msalvatore> Last week I published fixes for CVE-2018-10866 and CVE-2016-10727.
<ubottu> ** <A HREF="https://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#reserved_signify_in_cve_entry">RESERVED</A> ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-10866)
<ubottu> camel/providers/imapx/camel-imapx-server.c in the IMAPx component in GNOME evolution-data-server before 3.21.2 proceeds with cleartext data containing a password if the client wishes to use STARTTLS but the server will not use STARTTLS, which makes it easier for remote attackers to obtain sensitive information by sniffing the network. The server code was intended to report an e... (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-10727)
<msalvatore> I'm in the happy place this week.
<msalvatore> This morning I published a fix for CVE-2018-10900.
<ubottu> Network Manager VPNC plugin (aka networkmanager-vpnc) before version 1.2.6 is vulnerable to a privilege escalation attack. A new line character can be used to inject a Password helper parameter into the configuration data passed to VPNC, allowing an attacker to execute arbitrary commands as root. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-10900)
<msalvatore> This week I plan to work on firming up our policies and tooling for CVE prioritization with respect to universe packages in support of Expanded ESM.
<msalvatore> That's it for me. ebarretto, you're up.
<ebarretto> - I'm in the happy place this week
<ebarretto> - started working on package updates. The first package that I've updated went public today: libonig (trusty and xenial). Any feedback or complaints, please let us know. :)
<ebarretto> - I am continuing on package updates, next package: capnproto.
<ebarretto> - still catching up/learning the team tasks, processes and information
<ebarretto> that's it from me!
<ratliff> thanks!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, mdeslaur, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva, msalvatore, ebarretto: Thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks ratliff!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 30 16:45:40 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-07-30-16.32.moin.txt
<msalvatore> thanks, ratliff
<leosilva> thanks ratliff!
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<ebarretto> thanks ratliff!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-01
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<banzaikitten5> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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<Chex10> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<Chex10> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
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<raspimate_> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
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#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-02
 * slangasek waves
<fginther> o/
<slangasek> oh good, I'm not in the wrong place ;)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  2 15:02:43 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<philroche> \o
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)sru team meeting
<slangasek> fginther tdaitx cyphermox doko sil2100 philroche xnox slangasek rcj mwhudson Odd_Bloke infinity bdmurray juliank rbalintsru team meeting
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * cloud-init MP for LP: 1771198 (ssh_disable_users)
<fginther> * Worked with cloud-init team to identify a regression on a partner cloud
<fginther> * Disabled systemd-resolved for additional k8s images
<fginther> â done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771198 in cloud-init "Support disable_root-esque behaviour for other users" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771198
<fginther> tdaitx:
<juliank> o/ (a bit)
 * sil2100 pokes tdaitx_ 
<bdmurray> lets just move on
<bdmurray> cyphermox is on holiday
<slangasek> cyphermox is out
<slangasek> doko is at DebConf
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - 16.04.5:
<sil2100>   * Blanket item for all things releasey (respins, quick-fixes, hacks, coordination, isotesting, releasing)
<sil2100>   * Released!
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * Using latest testing model assertion built a core18 test image, dogfooding
<sil2100>   * Figured out issue with double login prompt, hacked in fix
<sil2100>   * Started looking into console output flowing into console-conf's view
<sil2100>   * Looking into cherry-picking console-conf branding fixes to core18 package
<sil2100> - Working on some estimates for core18 HW-specific work
<sil2100> - Too damn hot in here
<sil2100> (done)
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> * Cloud image build system improvements
<philroche> * Dealing with an unhealthy amount of hardware failures
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> xnox:
<xnox> * cosmic-proposed is doomed, cannot have new systemd, because no new
<xnox>   kernel, because virtualbox -> qt, xorg, ffmpeg.  uploaded a few
<xnox>   fixes for ADT regressions, but that's not enough
<xnox> * v239 is still thus blocked in cosmic-proposed
<xnox> * debugging ipv6/point releases on s390x with frank - mainframes are
<xnox>   silly
<xnox> * usr-merge is blocked on updating apparmor profiles for usr-merge,
<xnox>   see LP: #1784023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1784023 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Update profiles for usrmerge" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784023
<xnox> * finalrd passed NEW -> addressing review comments before enabling it
<xnox>   by default
<xnox> * out next week - beach volleyball tournament;
<xnox> * and the week after to have a laser eye surgery... maybe i'll no
<xnox>   longer be legally blind without my glasses.
<xnox> * done
<bdmurray> slangasek:
<fginther> they're replacing your eyes with lasers
 * fginther is great at bad jokes
<xnox> fginther, blasting the top layer off with a laser; and then continue to blast a tattoo pattern and then waiting for the top layer to regrow.
<xnox> fginther, basically i'm getting a permanent eye tattoo.
<slangasek>  * somewhat slow week, more childcare duties than usual due to wife being sick with strep
<slangasek>  * discussions around improving the simplestreams format for certain use cases
<slangasek>  * further work on nvidia stack support in clouds
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek>  * archive juggling for the 16.04.5 point release snapshot
<slangasek>  * working on sorting out policy around fscaps in packages (LP: #1302192)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302192 in iputils (Ubuntu Trusty) "capabilities not preserved on installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302192
<bdmurray> rcj:
<slangasek> xnox: have you seen the recent exposÃ© in the US that complication rates for lasik are much higher than had been generally reported?
<rcj> * Ironed out some bugs in new publication workflow for AWS partitions
<rcj> * Updated 16.04 and 18.04 AMIs in AWS-gov-us with new publication workflow
<rcj> * Cloud image care and feeding plus fixes for cloud partner images
<rcj> (done) ð
<tdaitx> now that I'm properly registered you should be able read this
<slangasek> tdaitx: go ahead then :)
<bdmurray> tdaitx: yes, do you want to do your status?
<tdaitx> * packaged & uploaded openjdk-7 (trusty) and openjdk-8 (xenial) to the security team ppa
<tdaitx> * openjdk-10 security update
<tdaitx>   - fixing test failures & timeouts
<tdaitx> * sru exception request is out
<tdaitx>   - 1005 packages for Cosmic, 15 out of date with debian, 16 new packages in debian
<tdaitx>   - 173 packages out of date in Bionic, 35 new packages
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> not mwhudson
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<fginther> Odd_Bloke is not here
<slangasek> infinity is DebConf
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> neither is infinity
<bdmurray> uploaded and verified fix for 14.04 to 16.04 upgrade failure (LP: #1784065)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1784065 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 fails due to `interest-await' in trigger" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784065
<bdmurray> searched for additional 16.04 packages with -await triggers (none)
<bdmurray> modified dist-upgrader to cleanup debs to mitigate LP: #1783597
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783597 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "The disk-space-needed estimate doesn't account for the snaps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783597
<bdmurray> fixed u-r-u's call to vte's terminal.feed_child() LP: #1780501
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u to cosmic fixing LP: #1783589, LP: #1783593, LP: #1783738
<bdmurray> added a telemetry marker to u-r-u so we can measure time to install snaps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1780501 in vte2.91 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Traceback calling Vte.Terminal.feed_child()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783589 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader crashes if snapd is not installed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783589
<bdmurray> updated bug pattern for LP: #1779237 to apply to update-manager
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "UI frozen and no information when the upgrader is installing snap packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783738 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "_checkStoreConnectivity uses translatable strings for error checking " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783738
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding setting up scaling stack retracers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1779237 in python3-defaults (Ubuntu) "package python3 3.6.5-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: installed python3 package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 4" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779237
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for 16.04.5 and 18.04.1
<bdmurray> â done
<juliank> I'm at debconf too
<juliank> * wrote talks ...
<juliank> - on Monday: https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/70-news-from-the-apt-team/ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnxTmPRpIHw
<juliank> - tomorrow: https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/66-delta-upgrades-revisited/
<juliank> * calculated delta sizes for talk tomorrow
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> :)
<juliank> rbalint is here too
<xnox> slangasek, yes, however, i'm having a flap-less all-laser asa (advance surface ablation) PRK .... which is without alchohol / blade-less...
<xnox> slangasek, but yeah all of them end with "after X months you may consider an 'enchancement' procedure" cause if it didn't work once... let's try again until it works....
<slangasek> xnox: ah, so a new procedure with not enough longevity data to know what the success rate is :-)
<slangasek> any questions over status?
<xnox> slangasek, the PRK is actually pre-lasik procedure. they just use to use a blade to chop the top bit of the eye off.
<juliank> (at DebConf, probably not IRC)
<slangasek> xnox: ah, PRK == radial keratonomy?
<xnox> slangasek, later they thought it we leave the bit we cut off, it might be better with like a flap (LASIK).... but then they realised there are "flap complications"
<xnox> slangasek, photorefractive keratectomy yes
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: ?
<bdmurray> bug 1783129
<ubottu> bug 1783129 in subiquity "Only "main" component enabled after install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783129
 * slangasek nods
<bdmurray> should we card it?
<slangasek> yes
<bdmurray> okay, I'll take care of that
<bdmurray> bug 1784549
<ubottu> bug 1784549 in pciutils (Ubuntu) "please update pci.ids" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784549
<slangasek> wasn't server team going to take care of that?
<bdmurray> comment #1 indicates he is looking for help
<slangasek> eh
<slangasek> fine I'll reply
<slangasek> done
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> slangasek: nope, that's it
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> I'll be out for a few days next week.
<bdmurray> We are still waiting on a fix for bug 1766890
<ubottu> bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<slangasek> that's in juliank's cart, yes?
<bdmurray> yes, I'm not sure when he'll checkout though
<slangasek> we'll send him a few popup windows to remind him it will expire soo
<slangasek> n
<juliank> bdmurray: I mentioned that I was busy writing talks, and gave you a very early WiP yesterday
<juliank> well, preperation work really
<bdmurray> juliank: I understand. I just wanted to discuss continuing to delay activating the upgrade.
<bdmurray> I'm not sure people are clamoring for it.
<gaughen> bdmurray, are you wanting to delay until the fix is landed for bug 1766890
<ubottu> bug 1766890 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766890
<bdmurray> gaughen: That's what we are currently doing. Is that best though?
<juliank> bdmurray: If you have the time play with that, I won't be back for about 13 hours or so.
<juliank> sleep, eat, talk
<gaughen> bdmurray, not sure, if we do, should we communicate?
<xnox> slangasek, re: main-only with subiquity... do we need to install an upgrade botch somewhere that would try to detect subiquity/curtin install and re-enable universe on those installs?
<slangasek> xnox: given that the fix didn't land before 18.04.1 went out, quite possibly
<gaughen> based on how broad the impact is, and the painfulness of a "workaround", I think we should wait
<bdmurray> okay, we sound agreed about that
<bdmurray> that's it from me then
<gaughen> thank you bdmurray
<slangasek> ok, anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  2 15:42:53 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-02-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-29
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> (got distracted by some upload)
<sil2100> uploads*
<rbasak> We have one main agenda item today
<rbasak> Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html)
<rbasak> I'm in a meeting so can't chair right now :-/
<sil2100> Not sure if we have quorum today anyway
<sil2100> Apologies, got dropped
<sil2100> rbasak: guess we don't have quorum  today, right?
<rbasak> I guess not
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-07-30
 * cpaelzer is glad no one else was here either
<cpaelzer> no recent MIR issues to share from me this week
<didrocks> yeah, seems like it's quite quiet anyway
<bittin> Do the Ubuntu Desktop Team, still has irc meetings at this time?
<sarnold> bittin: I think it was five hours ago in #ubuntu-desktop http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/
<bittin> sarnold: yep http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-07-30-13.34.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-01
 * vorlon waves
<waveform> o/
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> o/
<bdmurray> rbalint: You seem to be the chair for the meeting
<rbalint> bdmurray, thanks for the reminder
<rbalint> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 15:04:43 2019 UTC.  The chair is rbalint. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbalint> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> o/
<rbalint> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<rbalint> vorlon infinity juliank bdmurray cyphermox sil2100 rbalint mwhudson waveform xnox
<vorlon> skip
<bdmurray> infinity is away
<bdmurray> juliank: !
<juliank> - back from debconf
<juliank> + installed autopkgtest-cloud on my laptop there
<juliank> + gave some talks about apt and triehash
<juliank> - fighting debflu
<juliank> - processing email backlog
<juliank> - discussing with lvm2 upstream about the patch I sent them
<juliank> - some dpkg SRU rdep autopkgtest regression test triage
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> converting of daisy to python-cassandra
<bdmurray> fixed a traceback in oops-repository when writing data to cassandra
<bdmurray> removal of unnecessary data from Error Tracker db for EoL releases
<bdmurray> discussion with OEM team regarding apport for debugging
<bdmurray> SRU reviews
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> him reviews (ours, Oracle, other randoms that were unreproducible/broken)
<cyphermox> investigating writable files in /etc on core
<cyphermox> spec draft for netplan NetworkManager read/write plugin
<cyphermox> spec draft for OVS support
<cyphermox> netplan merges: doc fixes, packaging fixes, hashed passwords & dbus activation
<cyphermox> more netplan merges / cutting a release in progress
<cyphermox> helping slashd with bind9 packaging changes
<cyphermox> bug/card work for Japanese era
<cyphermox> the first like was "shim reviews"
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - New kernel cycle reviews, re-spins and re-respins, oh gosh
<sil2100> - Prepared a linux-firmware-dragonboard410 package with the binary blobs
<sil2100>   * Not uploaded to NEW yet, staged in a bileto PPA, want to test it with some test classic gadget
<sil2100> - Reviewed ubuntu-core u-boot dragonboard patches, pushed them to the u-boot package
<sil2100>   * Also in the bileto PPA for now
<sil2100> - Refreshed base language-pack's for eoan
<sil2100> - disk-space-estimate for snaps:
<sil2100>   * Figured out basics of how ubuntu-release-upgrader code works
<sil2100>   * Still working on it, but seeing progress
<sil2100> - Add handling of block-proposed in sru-report
<sil2100> - Looking into ncurses -proposed migration issues
<sil2100> - Looking into checking the lvm2 bug on LP builders
<sil2100> - Spinning some test images for the kernel guys
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100: You could have asked for someone to *mentor* you about u-r-u
<rbalint> * verified LP: #1837466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1837466 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Please make ubuntu-wsl recommend dbus-x11 " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837466
<rbalint> * fixed skiboot ftbfs
<rbalint> * fixed libnfs autopkgtest
<rbalint> * merged systemd, poking it to migrate
<rbalint> * other discussions
<rbalint> (done)
<waveform> * Pi 4 boot work:
<waveform> * u-boot working on pi4, but serial only (no USB, no screen yet)
<waveform> * got u-boot pi4 patches building a version that also works on pi3 (was missing USB config; should work on pi2 as well - untested as yet), so no need to move to conditional config.txt \o/
<waveform> * working on updating our -raspi2 kernel patches to support pi4
<waveform> * queried upstream on some more precise details of the bootloader (specifically device tree selection and merges)
<waveform> (done)
<sil2100> bdmurray: I just didn't want to bother my mentor, you know!
<rbalint> .. and xnox is away, too
<rbalint> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<rbalint> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> sil2100: have you looked at bug 1833758 yet?
<ubottu> bug 1833758 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm2: vgcfgbackup in postinst takes several minutes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833758
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes
<sil2100> Left a comment even
<sil2100> Did you not read it Brian?
<bdmurray> whoa!
 * bdmurray reads
<rbalint> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> vorlon: Do you think we should pass on that bug for EE then?
<vorlon> bdmurray: it doesn't look to me like something we should prioritize, no
<juliank> I believe they removed some daemons and things are slower now because it's processed in the foreground, but I might be wrong
<bdmurray> we could look for a similar debian bug
<bdmurray> moving on then bug 1837926
<ubottu> bug 1837926 in snapd (Ubuntu) "snapd snap ftbfs in eoan due to python-apt regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837926
<juliank> working on that
<bdmurray> I'll card it since its a ftbfs
<rbalint> are we fixing snap builds in general?
<juliank> Well, I have a hack-ish fix already, but want to clean it up a bit
<rbalint> i mean i can find all reverse build deps of a package with ratt, but how can i do it with snaps?
<juliank> Basically, I broke all code that used md5
<bdmurray> that's it for the undecided and high / critical
<rbalint> that seems t be all the bugs, let's move to the next part
<rbalint> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<rbalint> (skipping bb incoming because there is not much there)
<vorlon> looking much better than it was
<rbalint> imagemagick is waiting for mir of libheif1
<vorlon> thanks for everyone's work on this!
<rbalint> for build-essential i have an mp to blacklist linux-oem-osp1
<cyphermox> I'll have another look aat the libheif MIR
<cyphermox> and obviously netplan.
<rbalint> cyphermox, it seems systemd broke netplan but thanks!
<rbalint> i'm looking at network-manager for systemd
<cyphermox> sure, I'm going to go look at that
<rbalint> so anyone for build-essential's regressions?
<vorlon> rbalint: link to your mp please?
<vorlon> I can take build-essential, I'd already tried retesting those against release pocket last night
<cyphermox> rbalint: looks oddly spread out
<vorlon> (I expect they're all badtest)
<cyphermox> rbalint: what networkmanager for systemd?
<rbalint> vorlon, yes, seems so
<rbalint> vorlon, https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/britney/autopkgtest-eoan-hints/+merge/370870
<rbalint> vorlon, had it in my branch, forgot to file it :-\
<rbalint> cyphermox, no, ones for build-essential
<rbalint> cyphermox, n-m seems valid :-(
<cyphermox> nah, you mentioned you're looking at network-manager for systemd
<vorlon> rbalint: ah, I got the version number wrong, thanks I was wondering why those were showing up as failures when I thought I'd already hinted
<rbalint> ok, so anyone for nodejs?
<cyphermox> rbalint: ok, I see. nm fails because systemd is again trying to be real clever.
 * vorlon unfolds a newspaper and hides behind it
<cyphermox> probably the same failure for netplan, tbh
<cyphermox> nodejs, ok
<rbalint> cyphermox, i agree that they are trying pack too much smartness in a single project
<cyphermox> (that was me saying I'd look at nodejs)
<rbalint> cyphermox, thanks!
<rbalint> next is file: makedumpfile
<rbalint> i take this one
<rbalint> because why not :-)
<rbalint> i think mwhudson mentioned pinentry
<rbalint> i retried the ones for libglib-perl
<vorlon> and everything below that is <1 day old not requiring attention now
<vorlon> \o/
<rbalint> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<vorlon> nothing here
<bdmurray> I'm hoping some people could test bug 1835711
<ubottu> bug 1835711 in apport (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-bug collects bug data but does not upload it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835711
<bdmurray> I'm trying to get an idea of how many systems have whoopsie disabled
<bdmurray> systemctl is-enabled whoopsie
<cyphermox> whoopsie is enabled here
<sil2100> It's disabled on my system
<bdmurray> sil2100: is it active though?
<waveform> bdmurray, would you expect to see it on non-desktop systems?
<bdmurray> waveform: "see"?
<waveform> it's enabled on my oldxenial desktop, not installed on a bionic container, or an eoan pi image I've currently got running
<bdmurray> got it thanks
<waveform> sorry - by "see" I meant, would you expect it to be installed (given the lack of installation on the two examples mentioned)
<bdmurray> no, not really
<rbalint> bdmurray, it is active here on newly installed bionic
<bdmurray> rbalint: active and enabled?
<rbalint> bdmurray, yes
<vorlon> it's active here (as previously mentioned), and that's on an Ubuntu install that's seen some stuff
<waveform> also enabled on my ancient xenial server (upgraded from ... gawd knows what, probably precise)
<bdmurray> alright I don't think working on bug 1835711 too hard is worth it then.
<ubottu> bug 1835711 in apport (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-bug collects bug data but does not upload it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1835711
<bdmurray> because its not obvious at all why it is disabled on my system.
<rbalint> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 15:44:36 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-08-01-15.04.moin.txt
<vorlon> thanks!
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks rbalint o/
<diddledan> Hello Hello
<bashfulrobot> Heyo
<diddledan> anyone else here?
 * diddledan prepares the script
<bashfulrobot> Nope. Not so far.
<diddledan> clobrano: are you around?
<bashfulrobot> I think just the two of us. I also forgot to check the wiki to see if anyone was even lined up for a membership interview
<bashfulrobot> diddledan: I guess we call it for this time slot?
<diddledan> last call for clobrano ..
<clobrano> Hi
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> heya :-)
<clobrano> :)
<diddledan> right, let's get going - with the two of us we don't actually have a quorum, but I have a couple of prevotes that will swing us over the line
<diddledan> #startmeeting Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 20:22:41 2019 UTC.  The chair is diddledan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<clobrano> Oh, I see
<diddledan> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting for August 1st 2019. The wiki page for the Review Boards are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<diddledan> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<diddledan> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<diddledan> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<diddledan> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<diddledan> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the majority of the voting board members vote +1, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<diddledan> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<diddledan> #topic clobrano
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: clobrano
<diddledan> clobrano: if you could introduce yourself and post the link to your wiki page..
<clobrano> hey everybody then :)
<clobrano> sure, I'm Carlo Lobrano, from Italy
<clobrano> more details here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/clobrano
<clobrano> I mostly contributed to the themes in the last years, and in Yaru in particular
<clobrano> but I also give some little help in other projects, like snapcraft, snappy and some other gnome apps
<diddledan> cool :-) I'll pause here a few minutes to let everyone have a chance to read your wiki page
<clobrano> alright
<diddledan> I see you've got some great testimonials.
<diddledan> Is there anyone else here besides the membership board that wants to jump in with some thoughts on clobrano and their application?
<clobrano> yes, I really appreciated their words, very kind of them
<diddledan> ok, do any board members have questions they'd like to ask clobrano ?
<bashfulrobot> (I am here. Just reading up on the wiki)
<diddledan> :-)
<bashfulrobot> clobrano: I see that your work is predominately with the theming, but you also mentioned that you would like to work on some additional projects closer to your development experience. What did you have in mind there? Which projects interest you?
<clobrano> bashfulrobot: I surely like to work more on gnome-shell and mutter on software side, it just took me a bit to configure the environment (jhbuild) for build and testing
<clobrano> I also enjoyed a lot the interaction with nautilus and gnome-calendar mantainer, so I will probably go back there too
<diddledan> awesome. I've struggled with jhbuild in the past, too..
<clobrano> one thing I'd like to work on on theme side is instead the friction we observed lately between upstream and custom themes :)
<clobrano> I hope in a win-win solution
<bashfulrobot> Yes, easing process and having cross project friction minimized is always a great thing! :-)
<clobrano> totally agree!
<diddledan> any more questions? I'm happy.
<bashfulrobot> It's something many communities could be better at. Haha
<bashfulrobot> I'm actually good. Having read through the recommendations and such, seems like a pretty solid addition.
<clobrano> :D, well I believe when people are passionate is even normal
<clobrano> sometimes :)
<diddledan> ok, lets get to the voting then :-)
<bashfulrobot> Oh there is absolutely nothing wrong with passion. ð
<bashfulrobot> +1 for me
<diddledan> #vote clobrano membership application
<meetingology> Please vote on: clobrano membership application
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<diddledan> #voters bashfulrobot diddledan
<meetingology> Current voters: bashfulrobot diddledan
<diddledan> #nick wxl
<diddledan> #action wxl votes +1
<meetingology> ACTION: wxl votes +1
<diddledan> #nick wildmanne39
<diddledan> #action wildmanne39 votes +1
<meetingology> ACTION: wildmanne39 votes +1
<bashfulrobot> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bashfulrobot
<diddledan> #nick msdomdonner
<diddledan> #action msdomdonner votes +1
<meetingology> ACTION: msdomdonner votes +1
<wxl> oh hai
<wxl> 1s
<diddledan> oh, let me add you to the voters
<bashfulrobot> Hey wxl
<wxl> oh right
<wxl> +1
<diddledan> #voters bashfulrobot wxl diddledan
<meetingology> Current voters: bashfulrobot diddledan wxl
<clobrano> hey wxl :)
<wxl> oh i guess you did this already huh? XD
 * wxl is apparently behind the times hehehe
<diddledan> #nick iulian
<diddledan> #action iulian votes +1
<meetingology> ACTION: iulian votes +1
<diddledan> last one :-)
<diddledan> #nick fenris
<diddledan> #action fenris votes +1
<meetingology> ACTION: fenris votes +1
<diddledan> +1 from me - excellent work :-)
<meetingology> +1 from me - excellent work :-) received from diddledan
<clobrano> :)
<diddledan> wxl: can you re-+1 - you beat me before I added you to the bot's tracking :-)
<bashfulrobot> wxl: yup yup yup. Haha
<wxl> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from wxl
<diddledan> ok.
<diddledan> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: clobrano membership application
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<diddledan> congratulations clobrano :-D
<wxl> well deserved, for sure
<clobrano> horay! thanks everybody :)
<diddledan> unanimous decision !
<clobrano> :D
<bashfulrobot> Congrats clobrano !
<clobrano> thanks bashfulrobot
<diddledan> with that, I'll end the meeting
<diddledan> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 20:45:06 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-08-01-20.22.moin.txt
<diddledan> thanks everyone :-)
<bashfulrobot> Thank you all!
<wxl> thanks, ya'll. i'm going back to lurking.
<clobrano> thanks again :)
 * clobrano removing its name from the next meeting list 
<popey_> clobrano: congratulations!
<clobrano> Thanks popey_ :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-27
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<rbasak> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> Upcoming: Eric, Åukasz, Teward, Rafael, Dan, Robie <wrap>
<slashd> I can chair, but I'm a bit behind in term of what is ongoing atm. I apologize for that btw.
<rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: ^
<slashd> I'll go ahead and chair but I may miss a few things here and there.
<slashd> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul 27 15:06:05 2020 UTC.  The chair is slashd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<slashd> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<slashd> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco pkgset tooling full documentation (being worked, carried until mentioned)
<rafaeldtinoco> these are the long term action items
<slashd> still at the same state ?
<slashd> right
<rafaeldtinoco> yep, just mention those
<rafaeldtinoco> and move on
<slashd> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
<slashd> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> git.launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+git/packageset
<rafaeldtinoco> i still need to finish
<slashd> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<slashd> rafaeldtinoco Any updates on those items ? or all good for now ?
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry
<rafaeldtinoco> my time in the meeting to talk
<rafaeldtinoco> nope, only the documentation
<rafaeldtinoco> item is almost finish
<rafaeldtinoco> but I still have to create the wiki page
<rafaeldtinoco> and link to the dmb wiki pages
<slashd> thanks rafaeldtinoco anything we can do to help ?
<rafaeldtinoco> yes. please
<sil2100> How can we help?
<rafaeldtinoco> id like help from someone in the edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship
<rafaeldtinoco> you can get the packageset tool from the git repo I pasted
<rafaeldtinoco> and follow the README file and check
<ddstreet> i can take that action item
<rafaeldtinoco> edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (from germinate)
<rafaeldtinoco> and check if we should add something to exceptions, or any bigger change there
<ddstreet> slashd can you give me action item for that
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks a lot @ddstreet
<rafaeldtinoco> busy weeks I had
<rafaeldtinoco> well you too
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks for sharing the burden lol
<ddstreet> yep np, i've wanted to understand the seed/pkgset tooling better so this is a good excuse :)
<rafaeldtinoco> nice, its all in Makefile now
<rafaeldtinoco> and feel free to push things to the repo
<slashd> #action edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (ddstreet)
<rafaeldtinoco> or MR for me to review
<meetingology> ACTION: edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (ddstreet)
<slashd> We have no applicant today. Is there anything else we need to discuss or something I missed ?
<ddstreet> are you going thru the mailing list items in the agenda?
 * slashd looking
<slashd> #subtopic Request for delagate team for DKMS modules (Francis Ginther)
<slashd> seems like the vote went on the ML ^
<ddstreet> do we want to just vote on it now?
<ddstreet> or keep it on ML?
<sil2100> Yeah, I think the people that didn't vote could vote now
<sil2100> We could follow up on the thread for consistency
<ddstreet> i'm fine voting now if we want to queue up a vote for it
<slashd> I'm fine with both (ML or proceed with a vote now)
<slashd> I think we have quorum today anyway
<ddstreet> let's just vote now, yeah
<ddstreet> i think there are 2 motions https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-July/001540.html
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Request for delegate team for DKMS modules
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Request for delegate team for DKMS modules
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ddstreet> slashd shouldn't we vote on the 2 motions separately?
<ddstreet> i mean maybe we'll all vote the same for both, but probably should allow for voting separately?
<sil2100> I guess this is for the first motion I assume?
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Request for delegate team for DKMS modules
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<ddstreet> sounds good yep, this roudn is for motion #1, Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS
<ddstreet> modules that need updating to support new kernel versions"
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Motion 1: Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS
<slashd> modules that need updating to support new kernel versions" once we have
<slashd> further agreed upon at least one uploader to be able to upload to this
<slashd> packageset.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Motion 1: Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<ddstreet> +1 sounds reasonable to me
<meetingology> +1 sounds reasonable to me received from ddstreet
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<slashd> #voterequired 4
<slashd> rbasak also +1'd in the ML
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Motion 1: Create a DKMS packageset defined as "Packages that ship DKMS
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slashd> #vote Please vote on: Motion 2: Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further
<slashd> agreed upon at least one uploader to be added to this team.
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on: Motion 2: Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<slashd> #voterequired 4
<sil2100> +1 on this one as well
<meetingology> +1 on this one as well received from sil2100
<ddstreet> +1 the stated restrictions appear to limit this team to just the dkms modules, which i believe is the intention/goal of the original request, so seems reasonable and appropriate
<meetingology> +1 the stated restrictions appear to limit this team to just the dkms modules, which i believe is the intention/goal of the original request, so seems reasonable and appropriate received from ddstreet
<slashd> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slashd
<ddstreet> slashd is the directive '#votesrequired' (with an s, not r)?
<ddstreet> oh actually just missing the s, maybe
<slashd> #votesrequired 4
<meetingology> votes now need 4 to be passed
<rafaeldtinoco> is this the same motion ?
<slashd> motion 2
<rbasak> Same as the one I emailed?
<rafaeldtinoco> ah ok
<rafaeldtinoco> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rafaeldtinoco
<rafaeldtinoco> yes
<rafaeldtinoco> i was going to say that
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<slashd> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on: Motion 2: Create a DKMS packageset uploading team once we have further
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slashd> Who wants to take action on these 2 motions ?
<rbasak> There are no actions yet
<rafaeldtinoco> we got nothing from them yet
<rbasak> Until we have an uploader approved
<slashd> all good then
<slashd> next topic....
<slashd> #subtopic Adding Yaru to the desktop set for focal (Marco Trevisan)
<slashd> do we need to vote for that ?
<ddstreet> probably not, it seems simple enough, it's already in g, i can take action item for it unless anyone else wants it
<slashd> ddstreet: I'll take care of it if no one has it yet
<ddstreet> sounds good, thnx
<slashd> #action Adding Yaru to the desktop set for focal (slashd)
<meetingology> ACTION: Adding Yaru to the desktop set for focal (slashd)
<slashd> #subtopic RFC: auto-generated packageset for Canonical OEM enablement metapackages (Iain Lane)
<slashd> Something to mention here ?
<ddstreet> not sure if Laney is around?
<ddstreet> this request seemed, to me, very reasonable, but i think i would prefer to have the mentioned script already created before voting on the new packageset
<ddstreet> also it wasn't clear to me who would be running the script, and if there would be any human review of its updates (e.g. if it's run on a crontab)
<slashd> maybe preferable to then addresse those point to the ML and vote when we have all the infos in next DMB mtg(s)
<Laney> i'm here
<Laney> what up
<ddstreet> re: oem packageset
<Laney> I mean the script is like
<Laney> for pkg in all_packages:
<Laney>     if fnmatch.fnmatch(pkg, 'oem-*'meta'):
<Laney>         packageset.add(pkg)
<ddstreet> i assume it would need to be run regularly by a DMB member? or via cron somewhere?
<Laney> ya something like that, or the oem team can poke you to run it
<rafaeldtinoco> can be integrated in the packageset repo
<Laney> or I guess one option would be to make the set owned by another team
<rafaeldtinoco> and run in crontab or manually
<Laney> like ~ubuntu-archive or ~ubuntu-sru
<Laney> then they can run it themseves
<slashd> sil2100 ^ Any thoughts on that ? since you are in both group
<Laney> probably -archive since we're talking about uploading to NEW here
<Laney> then the dmb's role will be handling applications for new uploaders, but not managing the actual packages in the set
<rbasak> I'm going to have to disappear, sorry. Back in about an hour.
<slashd> Laney: I guess we will need to make sure ~archive is agree with that, I don't think dmb has authority on that
<Laney> sure
<ddstreet> i would also want to make sure the ppa is access-controlled too, since it essentially opens a self-service hole to upload new packages
<ddstreet> but as long as the packageset team owns the ppa that should be enough
<Laney> but maybe you can agree that you are ok in principle with it being ubuntu-archive (i.e. not the dmb)
<Laney> nod
<ddstreet> yes i'm fine with the dmb only managing membership in the team
<slashd> same here
<ddstreet> not sure if we have enough detail to vote on this right now? and probably would need agreement from -sru and/or -archive teams also; should we take it back to the list to continue?
<sil2100> Sorry, I have a standup now, let me read the backlog
<slashd> sil2100: take your time I think your input will be valuable here
<Laney> can come back to it next meeting if you want, I don't think anyone is ready for the rights yet anyway
<Laney> just want to have it all in place for when they are
<rafaeldtinoco> i think a reply to the email
<rafaeldtinoco> with the proposal we have right now
<rafaeldtinoco> would be better for voting next meeting
<sil2100> Yeah, I think this should be safe and doable, since the OEM meta package generation is very strictly defined and controlled
<rafaeldtinoco> if needed, im +1 on the change (to only control the membership of the team)
<slashd> should we open a vote ? rbasak just left the meeting, maybe we should reconvene next DMB about this topic
<ddstreet> just to clarify, we'd need a specific action item to vote on right?
<ddstreet> which i assume for the dmb would only be 'create packageset and owning team' right?
<rafaeldtinoco> the motion would be either we manage the packageset OR we manage permissions of who could change the packageset (by adding or removing people to a team)
<rafaeldtinoco> yep
<slashd> #action vote at next mtg(s) on controlling the membership access for the OEM enablement metapackages.
<meetingology> ACTION: vote at next mtg(s) on controlling the membership access for the OEM enablement metapackages.
<slashd> anything else on this topic ?
<sil2100> I don't have preferences, but I think it would make sense for ubuntu-archive to be able to control this
<slashd> thanks sil2100
<slashd> #subtopic Verify ubuntu-budgie packages, possibly remove fossfreedom personal packageset if no longer needed (Open TB bugs)
<ddstreet> i added this item as i noticed the still-open tb bug
<slashd> ack so all good then
<ddstreet> added this comment to the bug for clarification https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1716770/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1716770 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] New packageset ~personal-fossfreedom in Artful" [Undecided,New]
<ddstreet> i haven't seen any reply from fossfreedom, so we could just close this out
<slashd> ack
<slashd> I think that cover everything in the agenda. Anything else before we call it a day ?
<slashd> I guess we are done then.
<slashd> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul 27 16:00:48 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-27-15.06.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thanks everyone o/
<slashd> take care all !
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-28
<cpaelzer_> hiho
<cpaelzer_> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 28 14:30:59 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer_> jamespage: didrocks: ddstreet: doko: jamespage: sarnold: ping for MIR Meeting
<cpaelzer_> who'd be around today?
<ddstreet> o/
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> hello
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer_> ok glad we have a few around - let us start
<cpaelzer_> I already know we later need an AA, so an extra ping for doko :-)
<cpaelzer_> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer_> Well I was out and have no action open from my PTO :-)
<cpaelzer_> was there anything assigned last week here?
<cpaelzer_> no actions or everone fell asleep?
<sarnold> hmm, I think jamespage was going to try to amend a packge to reduce the size of the svgs
<sarnold> but I indeed didn't assign actions..
<cpaelzer_> ah ok, yeah he had a few things showing up in proposed on his list over the last few weeks
<cpaelzer_> let us go on then
<jamespage> I picked up all of the octavia-* reviews
<jamespage> mosttly done one left
<cpaelzer_> thanks jamespage
<cpaelzer_> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer_> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<didrocks> (hey, sorry for being late)
<cpaelzer_> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer_> hi didrocks
<cpaelzer_> octavia jamespage mentioned already
<cpaelzer_> addcli/realmd are actually ready for promotion - not sure why it is listed in red
<cpaelzer_> doko: if you are around the seed change happened and adcli / realmd could be promoted
<cpaelzer_> next we have odd things around the kernel (no problem)
<didrocks> I can do it otherwise (source + all binaries?)
<cpaelzer_> oh
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/realmd/+bug/1868154 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adcli/+bug/1868159
<cpaelzer_> IIRC all source + bin
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868154 in realmd (Ubuntu) "[MIR] realmd" [Medium,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868159 in adcli (Ubuntu) "[MIR] adcli" [Medium,In progress]
<didrocks> thx! Will do after the meeting
<cpaelzer_> thank you
<cpaelzer_> I've forgotten you had AA powers
<didrocks> nw!
<cpaelzer_> we continue to ignore the maas seed
<cpaelzer_> masakari is with jamespage as well
<cpaelzer_> the first one new (to me) is khronos-opencl-clhpp
<cpaelzer_> it seems that was in main in the past, but isn't in any active release
<sarnold> I don't recall seeing tlp on the list earlier -- is that intentional? it's direct in a seed, right?
<cpaelzer_> I haven't seen that either
<cpaelzer_> the tlb source of the dependency is "supported-hardware-desktop" seed - didrocks do you know?
<didrocks> I can investigate, I didnât hear anything explicitely about it
<didrocks> either keeping and MIR or drop it from the seed
<cpaelzer_> ok
<cpaelzer_> the khronos thing is from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ocl-icd/2.2.11-1ubuntu1
<sarnold> I've gained an 'iffy' feeling about tlp -- I've seen a lot of bug reports that mention tlp, I've gained a feeling it might be more trouble than it is worth
<cpaelzer_> actually
<cpaelzer_> 2.2.12-4        | groovy-proposed
<didrocks> sarnold: that was my memory about this project as well
<cpaelzer_> ocl-icd which needs khronos-opencl-clhpp seems to be some OpenCL stuff
<cpaelzer_> I wasn't aware this is supported - is that part of the toolchain
<cpaelzer_> doko ? ^^
<cpaelzer_> I think we really need doko for this one unless one of you has more background
<cpaelzer_> the nex one would be "logilab-common" depending on some python libs
<cpaelzer_> in main since forever it seems
<cpaelzer_> this is in pain for pylint it seems and foundations is subscribed - I'd suggest doko takes a look once he is available again
<cpaelzer_> xnox: vorlon: ^^ highlight for "logilab-common -> python-typin-extensions + python-mypy-extensions" and "ocl-icd -> khronos-opencl-clhpp" just in case doko isn't available for longer and you'd have extra input on these showing up as component mismatches
<cpaelzer_> waveform: libubootenv is still waiting on your input, so please feel pinged :-)
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: actually, I think freetype -> fonts-material-design-icons-iconfont falls under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess?action=show&redirect=MIRTeam#Font_Packages
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: would you mind to take a look afterwards and promote if that is true?
<waveform> cpaelzer_, pong! I did forward that patch upstream - will see if I can find out what happened to it
<cpaelzer_> waveform: can you update the bug so everyone is aware please ?
<cpaelzer_> is everone ok with component mismatches for today then?
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: will do
<waveform> cpaelzer_, will do
<cpaelzer_> thanks didrocks
<doko> cpaelzer_: it's on foundations list, although not on mine
<cpaelzer_> well that is enough to know it is not just dangling in mismatches
<cpaelzer_> and o/ doko
<cpaelzer_> going on to the next section then
<cpaelzer_> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer_> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer_> there are a whopping 24 bugs, but all are part of the special oem-* process we defined a while ago
<cpaelzer_> none for us to review
<cpaelzer_> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer_> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer_> one activity which was a bug prep by me that is held back until I've had a chance to clarify if we want to own jq and libonig
<cpaelzer_> that is for mdevctl
<cpaelzer_> I think we are good on those lists
<sarnold> oh man please not yet another regex library ..
<cpaelzer_> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<didrocks> FTR, tpl is pending the oem team: https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1888656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1888656 in tlp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tlp" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<didrocks> but the MIR is not ready, Iâll still subscribe our team so that it shows up on the report
<cpaelzer_> perfect, thanks for finding this
<cpaelzer_> any thing else before we close this ?
<cpaelzer_> ok then
<cpaelzer_> until next week
<didrocks> thanks :)
<cpaelzer_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 28 14:54:26 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-28-14.30.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer_, all :)
<vorlon> cpaelzer_: ocl-icd is owned by the kernel team; that should go to them for review?
<vorlon> xnox: why did you see python3-logilab-common? nothing else in main depends on it and it looks uninteresting, even if it was in main previously
<xnox> vorlon:  I do not speak for things i have done in my previous employment at canonical. =) I was young and naive. I thought at the time, that when porting logilab-common to python3, things in main will want to use it when switching to python3. They didn't.
<xnox> vorlon:  it's safe to drop that seed from 2014.
<cpaelzer_> thanks vorlon, kernel team has no MIR Team member we could ask about ocd. But we can ping a few kernel members if it is still around next time
<vorlon> xnox: >_<
<cpaelzer_> vorlon: thanks for the hint
<xnox> vorlon:  let me check all packages in that commit
<xnox> vorlon:  and if nothing needs them in main, i will revert the lot
<vorlon> cpaelzer_: well, surely the team owning the revdep package should be driving the MIR, independent of being on the MIR team
<cpaelzer_> yeah that is how we always do it
<cpaelzer_> vorlon: checkign 7 things at once in the meeting I didn't get to check the subscriber on ocl-icd
<xnox> vorlon:  dropped that whole sub-paragragh.
<xnox> (in the development seed)
<vorlon> xnox: ack, cheers
<vorlon> xnox: it was more trouble than it's worth for me to figure out why that package was originally pulled into main, because reverse-depends no longer works for trusty ;)
<xnox> hahahhaha
<xnox> vorlon:  i do wish we had at least rmadison that can do ESM series properly.
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-07-30
<sil2100> o/
<slyon> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 30 15:01:50 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> slyon juliank mwhudson doko vorlon sil2100 infinity waveform bdmurray tdaitx rbalint xnox
<slyon> - Short week
<slyon> - Fixed GCC-10 ftbfs for netplan package
<slyon>   * MP awaiting sponsoring, bug #1875412
<slyon> - Communicated iwd vs wpa_supplicant document
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Meeting with heather/desktop re NM plugin
<slyon> - Fixed compilation with GCC-10, PR#115, merged
<slyon> - Website update, re 'netplan try' docs, published
<slyon> - Another review for IP addr labels, PR#89
<ubottu> bug 1875412 in netplan.io (Debian) "netplan.io: ftbfs with GCC 10" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875412
<slyon> - Another round of OVS fixes, PR#156, merged
<slyon> - Continued working on Wireguard PR#113
<slyon>   * Schema changes, NM support, integration test
<slyon> - Debugging of "first-boot" OVS problem
<slyon>   * Probably cloud-init is not triggering the netplan-* service units
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> julian is out this week
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> - GCC 10 as default, already migrated
<doko> - binutils 2.35, already migrated
<doko> - prepared gcc-10 SRU, still not built on riscv64
<doko> - prepared Python 3.8.5 SRU, just built yesterday
<doko> - prepared Python 3.9 SRU, not yet built
<doko> - +1 work
<doko> - MIR and archive work
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * fixing holes in my boots https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/GRUB2SecureBootBypass
<vorlon>  * working on icu/re2/nodejs migration
<vorlon>  * netplan schema reviews
<vorlon>  * prep work for beginning the point releases
<vorlon>   * SRU reviews
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> uh oh
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - 20.04.1, 18.04.5 and 16.04.7:
<sil2100>   * Release related meetings
<sil2100>   * Sponsoring various pi related packages needed for .5
<sil2100>   * Tweaking pi-gadget classic for bionic .5
<sil2100>   * Creating release tracking thread on discourse for .1
<sil2100>   * Various re-spins, milestone creations, tweaks
<sil2100>   * Preparing for .5 and .7
<sil2100>   * Investigating do-release-upgrade strangeness for raspi bionic->focal
<sil2100> - Netplan:
<sil2100>   * Various reviews of PRs from Lukas
<sil2100>   * Refreshing OVS packages with latest changes
<sil2100> - Reviewing the flake8 groovy PR for ubuntu-image
<sil2100> - Work on smooth core gadget delivery
<sil2100> - Preparing for core18 release - postponed for next week
<sil2100> - Other stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> Oh and appliance stuff too!
<bdmurray> sil2100: Is there a bug about raspi and u-r-u?
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Verification of linux-firmware-raspi2 for bionic (LP: #1886581)
<waveform> * Finished raspberrypi-userland work (LP: #1883111)
<waveform> * Tested release-upgrade from bionic to focal on various Pis and both architectures
<waveform> * Verified rpi-eeprom for focal (and issue with libraspberrypi-bin dependency)
<waveform> * Investigated audio switching issue for the headphone jack (upstream change)
<waveform> * Worked on flash-kernel update to make u-boot optional in groovy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1886581 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Ubuntu 18.04 64-bit RasPi 3 and 4 image fails to boot on RasPi 4B" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886581
<waveform> * Worked on "new stuff"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1883111 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] raspberrypi-userland" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883111
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> uploaded python-apt for 20.04.1 (updated mirrors list)
<bdmurray> sent an email to -crew mailing lists re: squid.internal and autopkgtests
<bdmurray> review / testing of security bug fix(es)
<bdmurray> iso tracker database update for download links via storm
<bdmurray> and more point release work
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> +1 maintenance
<bdmurray> â done
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 and openjdk-8 security updates
<tdaitx>    - rebuild openjdk-8 with upstream patch to fix regression from a security patch
<tdaitx>    - openjdk-8 xenial/powerpc failed 3 times without buildlog, disabled build time tests to speed-up build
<tdaitx>    - keeping an eye on lp and error tracker for openjdk-11 regressions
<tdaitx> * jck
<tdaitx>   - updated documentation
<tdaitx>   - fixed report file links
<tdaitx>   - compiler passes 100%, runtime passes ~97%
<tdaitx>   - doing re-runs to test runtime baseline
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> balint is out for the moment
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> Boothole is out - yeah
<xnox> Boothole regression fixing - oh noes
<xnox> Respun grub2-signed, d-i, pc 16 gadgets, pc 18 gadgets
<xnox> Uploaded things for json-c transition
<xnox> Failing at progressing icu67 transition
<xnox> Did not deal with proposed-migrations assigned last week
<xnox> Still looking for AA to review NEW signed zfcpdump kernel https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=zfcpdump-kernel-signed
<xnox> Progressing with ifupdown ifenslave isc-dhcp resolvconf resolved integration improvements
<sil2100> bdmurray: yes
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> any questions on status?
<sil2100> bdmurray: (keeping track of stuff here now: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/focal-fossa-20-04-1-lts-point-release-status-tracking/17604 )
<vorlon> xnox: pc 20 gadgets incoming?
<bdmurray> welcome to the community sil2100
<xnox> vorlon:  needs resigning first.
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1888916
<ubottu> bug 1888916 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from bionic to focal a server with molly-guard moves back sources.list to bionic entries" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888916
<xnox> bad molly
<bdmurray> so the quit code restores your sources.list file
<bdmurray> which while is wrong I don't know how widely used molly-guard is. Is there some way to figure out how popular a package is?
<vorlon> seems to me we should just prioritize fixing this in u-r-u
<xnox> ack
<bdmurray> bug 1889324
<ubottu> bug 1889324 in ifenslave (Ubuntu) "ifenslave invalid syntax in hooks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1889324
<vorlon> xnox: were you already working on this one?
<bdmurray> this looks like spam
<vorlon> certainly the submitter has low reputation
<bdmurray> bug 1887372
<ubottu> bug 1887372 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "Cannot create lvm upon IMSM raid array" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1887372
<xnox> vorlon:  i have thousands of points on TeX exchange, and lots of gold & silver medals in amateur volleyball tournaments!
<vorlon> :)
<bdmurray> Let's take and card that one
<vorlon> +1
<vorlon> xnox: you want it targeted for focal as well?
<xnox> yes please
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<xnox> but not it to actually cherrypick and upload it =)
<bdmurray> bug 1886748
<ubottu> bug 1886748 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 18.04 to 20.04 fails to calculate with clang-6.0 and pocl-opencl-icd installed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886748
<bdmurray> this is reproducable by installing those two packages
<bdmurray> it looks like there are a fair number of dupes of it too
<bdmurray> so its def worth fixing
<bdmurray> I'm just not sure what needs to happens with the dependencies
<vorlon> agreed; seems like the failure condition is manageable so probably shouldn't be a .1 blocker though?
<bdmurray> right, the upgrade just doesn't happen
<bdmurray> so the card should *not* queue jump then?
<vorlon> I think that's right
<sil2100> +1
<bdmurray> That's about it then
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> vim, still with me unless someone wants to steal it
<vorlon> xz-utils, juliank not here this week; did he hand this off to anyone as he said he would?
<juliank> xz-utils/snapd needs a snapd Testsuite fix
<vorlon> juliank: in what way?
<juliank> I thought they'd have uploaded it by now, but I guess not
<juliank> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8922
<vorlon> juliank: hmm why is this failing only on ppc64el?
<juliank> I don't know for sure, but I know that the snapd team told me that's the issue
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> if it's a broken test suite I'll probably just go ahead and badtest snapd/ppc64el then
<juliank> Can do that yes
<vorlon> build-essential seems to be waiting on autopkgtest results for a newly-uploaded package
<vorlon> and I was on this last week but failed to follow through to the point of migration because it's been blocked by changes in britney policy
<vorlon> I'll follow through
<waveform> python-tz I still need to hunt down a sponsor for oops
<bdmurray> I'm your huckleberry
<vorlon> waveform: there are several in this team, please hunt explicitly :)
<vorlon> there you go
<waveform> bdmurray, thanks
<doko> vorlon: isn't that just a component mismatch?
<vorlon> doko: maybe; I'll check it out
<vorlon> rbalint_: any progress with libsereal-decoder-perl and friends?
<slyon> rbalint is out, I think
<vorlon> is he?
<vorlon> ok moving on and assuming carry-over
<vorlon> bdmurray: was mpfr4 / python-gmpy2 yours?
<vorlon> I thought there was something about a python-gmpy2 removal
<bdmurray> yes doko mentioned that was happening in debian
<tdaitx> the lintian regressions (libtext-levenshteinxs-perl libtext-xslate-perl libtime-moment-perl) are still on me, will work on them tomorrow
<vorlon> bdmurray: you good to follow through?
<vorlon> tdaitx: thanks
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<vorlon> xnox: python-werkzeug still yours?
<xnox> yes
<doko> upstream said they'll ignore/remove that test
<xnox> +Package: crossbuild-essential-riscv64
<xnox> +Architecture: all
<doko> HOST_ARCHS_riscv64 = amd64 i386 x32 arm64 ppc64el
<vorlon> logilab-common, there was an MIR which we dealt with instead by demotion so it's still stuck
<vorlon> s/so/but/
<vorlon> slyon: do you want to follow through on this and find out why it's still stuckL?
<slyon> vorlon: yes. will do
<doko> I was told, it was wrongly seeded
<vorlon> slyon: oh it may just be that we didn't actually demote it after removing it from the seed
<vorlon> so I'll do that and then you can follow up as needed
<slyon> okay. I will keep an eye on it
<slyon> and see if it will be resolved
<xnox> vorlon:  doko: looking at cross-build-essenail-* it is mixed state. Some are in main (where cross-arch is "supported" like armhf ppc64el) and some are in universe where arch is not supported (i.e. armel powerpc) and yeah it looks like riscv64 is missmatched in components.
<vorlon> dbus-python is mine to carry over
<vorlon> xnox: and in fact it was on the component-mismatches-proposed report for demotion
<xnox> har har har har
<vorlon> bdmurray: pygment + mercurial is yours?
<bdmurray> vorlon: indeed
<xnox> and it went into main by default, because source package is in main, sigh.
<vorlon> waveform: are you on gpgme1.0?
<waveform> vorlon, yup
<vorlon> xnox: autodep8 is still yours
<xnox> yes
<vorlon> gcc-9 just waiting on riscv64 build
<doko> for a week ...
<vorlon> who can take software-properties?
<slyon> I can
<bdmurray> If not the desktop team I could
<xnox> vorlon:  doko: but we have retrieved gcc-9 buildlog for riscv64, did you see that?
<xnox> doko:  it FTBFS.
<vorlon> actually maybe we should leave software-properties with the uploader ( tsimonq2 )
<slyon> ok
<bdmurray> software-properties looks like a network issue
<vorlon> gce-compute-image-packages is a wibbly NBS issue which I don't understand; I'll follow up
<xnox> doko:  https://chat.canonical.com/canonical/pl/hpugx38u3ido3jz14fxgy1oihw
<vorlon> (looks to me like a britney bug, frankly)
<vorlon> fwupd needs signing requests accepted, I'll handle
<vorlon> doko: can you take paramiko?
<bdmurray> actually software-properties looks like it should be ddstreet
<bdmurray> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/0.99.0
<ddstreet> hmm pyflakes failure, sure i can upload a new one
<bdmurray> I think its more than pyflakes but I haven't looked closely. https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-groovy/groovy/amd64/s/software-properties/20200728_121029_07976@/log.gz
<doko> vorlon: ok
<vorlon> thanks
<vorlon> bdmurray: done
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Anything else? Anybody have great vacation plans in the next week?
<sil2100> Never
<sil2100> ;)
<bdmurray> I'm looking for mountain goats this weekend.
<mclemenceau>  I'll be out tomorrow
<bdmurray> but anyway
<vorlon> the ones that chewed holes in your boots
<vorlon> ?
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 30 15:50:47 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-07-30-15.01.moin.txt
<xnox> corona plans!
<ogra_> put a lemon slice into the bottle !
