#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-09-21
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23a11yldn
<AlanBell> today there is an accessibility unconference in London that I didn't know about until just now
<Pendulum> JanC: do you mind if I forward that e-mail on to the GNOME a11y list? 
<JanC> Pendulum: of course I don't mind
<JanC> either an a11y track or an a11y devroom would be great
<JanC> or both  âº
<Pendulum> yeah
<JanC> BTW: speakers in the main tracks might get their travel paid back, but speakers in a devroom don't
<JanC> at least not by FOSDEM; of course the GNOME foundation or Canonical or other companies can (and do) pay their employee's travel
<JanC> s/employees/developers/
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-09-22
<Pendulum> maco: are you on ubuntu-accessibility?
<maco> ml? no
<maco> chan...obviously
<Pendulum> someone just posted to the ml asking about kubuntu accessibility
<maco> oh uhhh....nonexistent?
<maco> i mean, we have an onscreen keyboard, but not for kdm til 10.10
<maco> annd qt... expects there to be a system-wide a11y framework. which linux doesnt have. so it fails for screenreaders
<Pendulum> is there a screen magnifier?
<maco> umm....lets see a11y settings have a visual bell and a bunch of stuff about how the keyboard should work...
<maco> there's 2 colour schemes available by default for dark background with light text and you can adjust font sizes to huge for folks who need the high contrast
<maco> (of course, theyd need someone /else/ to set that up)
<maco> yes, kmag is installed by default
<maco> its recommended by the kubuntu-desktop package
<maco> omfg this is confusing
<maco> things are displayed in 3 different zoom levels at once O_O
<maco> less confusing if i unmaximise it... it has to be on top and if its maximised...yeah.... dont need a zoom of the zoom
<JanC> maco: Qt4 supposedly supports AT-SPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistive_Technology_Service_Provider_Interface ?
<JanC> as does Gtk, Java, Mozilla, OOo, ...
<maco> i dont think theres any way to enable it in a kde env though
<JanC> in any case, there is a system-wide a11y API
<JanC> I think it was designed by Sun originally
<maco> mmk. i thought at-spi was a gnome thing and hadnt gone fd.o-way yet
<JanC> well, Gtk, Java, Mozilla & OOo originally, Qt4 added support around 2005...
<JanC> or at least Trolltech announced it then  ;)
<JanC> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.0/qt4-accessibility.html sounds like they did implement it
<JanC> the reason why it was first implemented in Gtk/GNOME, Java, OOo & Mozilla is probably that Sun paid for it...
<JanC> as they needed it for some US government contracts
<Pendulum> I know Sun was one of the big funders for Gnome Accessibility (until last winter, of course)
<JanC> yeah  :-(
<JanC> stupid Oracle
<JanC> maybe people should sue them for that, as that seems their favourite way of talking to others  ;)
<charlie-tca> Good Morning
<charlie-tca> since I am not spread thin enough yet, are we doing an accessibility session for UbuntuOpenWeek ?
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<Pendulum> I'd love it if we could, however, I am out of town for a doctor's appointment most of that week
<Pendulum> and I know TheMuso doesn't usually do things like open week because it's middle of the night for him
<charlie-tca> I could do one, what do we want to have ?
 * charlie-tca keeps in mind he will also be doing a Xubuntu session, as project lead and QA
<Pendulum> hmm... good question
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: btw, would you be at all interested (if it's okay with TheMuso ) in helping nigelb run a community-based accessibility session at UDS?
<charlie-tca> sure
<Pendulum> I didn't get sponsorship so I can't do it, but I'd like there to be *something*
<charlie-tca> I got sponsorship, so I can do it
<Pendulum> (I'll be there remotely for it, but you can't lead remotely)
<Pendulum> cool :)
<Pendulum> then I'll set up the blueprint and submit it
<charlie-tca> great!
<maco> i was just saying "jee theres no a11y blueprint yet"
<Pendulum> maco: yeah, between my accident and now the fact that I need to check with jcastro about if I need to specify charlie-tca and nigelb anywhere on the blueprint
<maco> do we know any europeans or aussies with knowledge of their country's sign yet?
<Pendulum> not that I know of
<Pendulum> you should join the ubuntu-accessibility ML and ask :P
<maco> id specify one of them on "assignee" btw
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> I just want to make sure that I don't need to assign one as the drafter, too
<charlie-tca> Put me down
<charlie-tca> So, for openweek, general accessibility in Ubuntu? What's available, what's we want to see; questions and answers?
<charlie-tca> Accessibiltiy is Important - session on2010-10-13; 14:00 UTC; Charlie Kravetz
<maco> "why does ubuntu use so much webkit while knowing its inaccessible?"
<mgdm> what's up with webkit?
<mgdm> (sorry - not been paying attention)
<maco> doesnt work with screenreaders
<mgdm> Ah
<maco> but the software center and part of the installer use it
<JanC> I assume they use it because mozilla makes it complicated to integrate their browser engine widget  ;)
<JanC> maco: I know somebody who was talking about learning dutch sign language and pointed him to your project, maybe he can help you  ;)
<JanC> once he starts his lessons...
<vish> maco: webkit in SC? afaik , webkit is not used in the maverick version
<vish> the accessibility concerns were the reason for the change..
<vish> maco: it now uses gtk
<maco> oh?
<maco> JanC: i had the impression using mozilla wasnt too hard up until the part where ubuntu made a policy vetoing all apps that do so
<JanC> maco: AFAIK mozilla's rendering engine is a PITA if you have to access things inside it from outside it
<JanC> it makes things more difficult for the programmer
<JanC> it's like talking to another person who speaks another language by using a translator
<JanC> (I never tried it myself, but that's what I understood from an Epiphany developer)
<AlanBell> there is only XUL
<AlanBell> as it says in the DTD
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> that was a work of genius
<JanC> I have no problem with the mozilla/XUL platform per sÃ©, it just doesn't integrate well with other frameworks
<JanC> I mean, nobody tries to use Qt widgets inside Gtk or vice versa, right?  :P
<JanC> maco: what's the best thing to do for people who want to help?
<maco> depends on their skills...
<JanC> I'm thinking about adding support for additional sign languages
<maco> oh for gally?
<JanC> or testing them or such
<maco> signal out
<JanC> "signal out"?
<maco> JanC: my network signal was about to drop due to tunnel
<JanC> ah  âº
<maco> ok so anyway, about gally... i have to make kstandarddir stuff go, and thats what i'll probably be doing tomorrow when i get home from hospital (nothing serious, dont worry) and then itll be released version 0.5 and whats in mav and yay
<maco> version 1.0 i want to have support for > 1 language, which, once i have kstandarddir support, shouldnt be too hard to plug in there... add a few loops and it should be good...but part of that will be adding KGetHotNewStuff support to download more tarballs of lessons
<JanC> I was more thinking about how non-technical people can help  ;)
<maco> non-tech people can help with making lessons
<maco> make a list of lessons and vocab that should be in them, for example
<maco> or if slightly more technical but not a programmer, turn such lists into xml files
<JanC> yeah, is there a ML for this or something?
<maco> or if having a camera and ability to use openshot/pitivi/whatever make videos / photos of signs
<maco> mmm nope. figured people could file bugs like "add a lesson for names of foods"
<JanC> most of them probably don't know what they can do  ;)
 * maco checks lp intro pages
<JanC> anyway, the person I was talking about is going to start a course of sign language soon, so he doesn't know anything yet, but he was looking for a rehearsal tool
<maco> https://edge.launchpad.net/gally-asl  <-- does what i put there make sense for telling people things that help?
<maco> havent got enough lessons for him to use it that way yet
<JanC> well, IME making lessons is often more effective rehearsal than plain rehearsal  ;)
<JanC> might still be useful to have a ML (or forum or such)
<JanC> but I'll forward what you linked to
<charlie-tca> could use the accessibility mailing list?
<maco> charlie-tca: nah this is for a separate project i started that happens to interst a11y
<JanC> maco: does Gally support rehearsal currently, or only lessons?
<maco> lessons
<maco> how do you mean rehearsal? like you sign in front of a webcam?
<JanC> well, two things: 1. try to understand what is shown and 2. try to sign a given expression, then see if what you did was right
<JanC> not necessarily have the program tell you if you were right/wrong  ;)
<JanC> that would be possible too (e.g. using OpenCV) but require more work
<maco> there is research going on to recognize signs people are doing from webcam, but its *hard*
<maco> but yeah, quizzing is planned for 1.0
<JanC> hey, you have #gally too  ;)
<JanC> erkan^: is another person who might be able to help with dutch sign language
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-09-23
<Pendulum> dutchie: poke
<dutchie> yes?
<Pendulum> when do you start uni?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: what's your availibility in the next week?
<dutchie> week on monday
<dutchie> if that's the 4th
<Pendulum> it is
<Pendulum> dutchie: so if we did a push to try to get full drafts of personas within the next week, you'd probably still be able to help?
<dutchie> yep
<Pendulum> AlanBell: ^^
<AlanBell> yeah, looking
<AlanBell> wednesday is bad, but generally I have time
<Pendulum> so maybe if we all look at them and try to get some work done over the weekend and then plan to meet Monday?
<dutchie> sounds good
<dutchie> how are we going to divvy them up?
<Pendulum> umm... does anyone have any preference?
<dutchie> nope
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WkO4TZbvWt
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do you have a preference?
<AlanBell> I was just looking for the link to the pad
<AlanBell> wondering if we should all work on one together, then move on to the next etc.
<dutchie> that would involve more synchronisation than may be possible
<dutchie> so where are we actually going with these personas?
<AlanBell> ok, I will take Faisal for a start
<dutchie> fleshing out a backstory?
<Pendulum> dutchie: back story and I'd say a brief description of "how they use a computer"
<AlanBell> yup, bit of a back story and more detail on what they find hard when using a computer
<Pendulum> (which you can get somewhat from looking at the personas surveys)
<dutchie> right
<AlanBell> and the specific ways they use a computer that may be surprising
<dutchie> where are the surveys?
<AlanBell> in your inbox somewhere!
<dutchie> ah, so they are
<AlanBell> so we can go through and draft them, based on the surveys
<AlanBell> include as much content direct from the surveys as possible
<AlanBell> then get them reviewed by some people who have the general principal issue that the persona relates to
<Pendulum> exactly
<Pendulum> I can take Daniela
<dutchie> hmm, can't find it
<dutchie> shall i do john?
<AlanBell> dutchie: email address?
<Pendulum> I can also do Herietta
<dutchie> jrh@joshh.co.uk
<AlanBell> on its way
<Pendulum> someone just needs to claim Simon
<Pendulum> I figure kinda if we all start working on ours over the weekend, we can meet monday to figure out where we're having problems and see how stuff looks
<Pendulum> and, of course, I'm around most of the time if either of you wants advice as you're working
#ubuntu-accessibility 2010-09-26
 * dutchie realises that he has forgotten to do any work on the personas
<dutchie> compleletely accidentally ended up with the partially sighted mathematician
 * dutchie looks at his -10D glasses and thinks about the maths degree he is starting in a week
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-19
<AlanBell> http://a11yldn2011.eventbrite.com/
<AlanBell> accessibility unconference in London on wednesday, not sure if I can go
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-21
<yaili_> hi, can someone tell me what is usually the best format to provide a transcript from a video?
<yaili_> simple text file, or html? for example.
<AlanBell> yaili_: either of those work fine
<yaili_> thanks, AlanBell 
 * AlanBell wonders if yaili_ is going to the Cask tomorrow
<yaili_> AlanBell: sadly no, as my parents are arriving from Portugal tomorrow for a visit
<AlanBell> ah, ok, have fun with your parents then!
<AlanBell> or bring them to the Cask!
<yaili_> AlanBell:  :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-22
<livec> hello ?
<livec> how to make flash pligin work ?
<livec> plugin
<charlie-tca> missed the deadline to respond?
 * joanie pokes Pendulum 
<Pendulum> joanie: what's up?
<joanie> Pendulum: Looks like I shall be lecturing at WNEC the morning of 6 October and was wondering if you'd be around that day for lunch. :-)
<joanie> around == in CT
<Pendulum> I need to check because I have a couple appointments that morning, but I think I'll be back home by noon :)
<Pendulum> joanie: ^^
<joanmarie> crazy server lag
<joanmarie> Pendulum: Awesome
<joanmarie> The tentative plan is for me to lecture in the morning, entertain myself in the afternoon, and then (hopefully) do a follow-up, with pizza session with the class in the evening. There's just too much to cover.....
<joanmarie> so if you are around any time in the afternoon, that should work for me. :-)
<Pendulum> joanmarie: sounds good, should definitely be able to work something out then :)
<joanmarie> yay! :-)
<joanmarie> I'll keep you posted about my schedule
 * joanmarie observes that crazy server lag only seems to happen when she is using two clients and nicks. It's like the lag knows it is being watched....
<Pendulum> :)
<apinheiro> TheMuso, you here?
<Fudge> ello
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-23
<AlanBell> Bug 749702
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749702 in ubiquity ""Try Ubuntu" screen-reads as "Try $RELEASE"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749702
<charlie-tca> We have six more now from beta2 testing
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't think that one is still valid though
<charlie-tca> That would be good. We can close it with fix-released in Oneiric
<AlanBell> just downloading beta2 now, I will do a VM install later, maybe a hardware install too
<paul_h1> AlanBell: I didn't have much luck with the beta2 in live session mode. orca starts okay but I couldn't launch any applications
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: bug 852583 is me moving in mysterious ways ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852583
<charlie-tca> I just don't see that as critical when we can't even get the variable names in Ubiquity
<AlanBell> I want to get the audio interface to be considered part of the branding of the operating system
<charlie-tca> I want to have visually impaired able to know what is happening, too. I think that should be higher priority than a pronounciation of Oneiric
<AlanBell> sure, it is
<AlanBell> I want to get that too
<AlanBell> but I want the visual experience people to include audio as part of their remit
<charlie-tca> So, how does oneiric pronunciation get a higher priority than the variable names?
<AlanBell> it doesn't
<charlie-tca> bug 781385
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
<AlanBell> what variable names anyway?
<AlanBell> eww
<charlie-tca> yeah, sitting for months already, and still broken
<charlie-tca> now, I got to go cut grass here.
<AlanBell> LDTP is only possible because of a11y stuff, not impressed that they broke it all just to make life for LDTP easier
<maco> I have updated .ui files from Cheri
<maco> but obviously this is a change that if i just shove it in, i'll end up with an angry evan on my hands
<maco> and while i *do* have commit access to ubiquity... 
<AlanBell> maco: where is the loop you mentioned?
<AlanBell> why isn't the test testing against the actual accessible names? is it because of translations?
<AlanBell> ls
<AlanBell> oops
<maco> AlanBell: look around line 200 of gtk_ui.py
<maco> its not actually a loop, just a thing that gets called every time a widget is added
<maco>             name = gtk.Buildable.get_name(widget)
<maco>             widget.set_name(name)
<maco>             atk_desc = widget.get_accessible()
<maco>             atk_desc.set_name(name)
<maco>             self.all_widgets.add(widget)
<maco> oh ouch. found something that, if commented out, would make the labels readable by orca too, i think...
<maco> just below that there's a comment saying that he's forcing the labels to not be able to take focus because then they become part of the tabbing through the page. if you could tab to a label, though....then orca would read it
<AlanBell> it reads the labels though doesn't it?
<AlanBell> I will try the beta2 installer later
<AlanBell> maco: how do I run ubiquity without going through the installer?
<maco> it reads labels on *buttons*
<maco> the explanatory text, though? nope
<maco> go to the "try" instead of the "Install" then run from a terminal
<maco> with sudo, iirc
<AlanBell> so I did bzr branch lp:ubiquity
<AlanBell> can I run it from the branch?
<maco> oh, no
<maco> or well, not that i know how to do
<maco> if you can figure out how to make it build, sure....
<maco> but i have no idea how to build ubiquity
<maco> it requires that debian-installer be built first then pulls some pieces from it
<maco> ...which is why my testing of UI changes to ubiquity is in the form of poking the python files on a live cd
<AlanBell> it does read the explanitory text on the first page
<AlanBell> broadly speaking it is useable, if you do the install connected to the internet and let it guess location and keyboard layout
<AlanBell> and it would be great to have the button names as they should be
<AlanBell> I will be checking for a few bugs and maybe raising new ones
<AlanBell> and will probably do a screencast again
 * AlanBell closes a heap of bugs
<AlanBell> bug 851694 is now at the top of my list of bad bugs
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I am not sure where the prepare step is for bug 856782
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 856782 in ubiquity "Prepare: Unable to read system requirements with a screen reader" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856782
<AlanBell> ah, never mind, got it
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-24
<AlanBell> bug 851694 has had a minor improvement
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
<AlanBell> now the top row of a category get read out right
<AlanBell> all the others are still called button
<charlie-tca> hm, my hardware seems to hate unity now. Did a screen-reader install, got a full two or three minutes of crashes logging in. 
<charlie-tca> Ran updates, restart failed completely. Had to re-install to get the desktop back
<AlanBell> eww
 * AlanBell updates a VM
<charlie-tca> That was kind of my thought, too
<charlie-tca> reinstalled without orca, just to look unity over
<charlie-tca> open dash, seach on accessibility comes up blank. Now have to look for Universal Access instead
<AlanBell> oh?
<charlie-tca> yup
<AlanBell> typing accessibility or using the filter thing?
<charlie-tca> Wish they would tell us about these things
<charlie-tca> type accessibility
<charlie-tca> could not get the filter thing to work
<AlanBell> that only works in the apps lens
<AlanBell> and not very well
<AlanBell> the apps lens is so cluttered and useless it puts everyone off unity
<charlie-tca> Yeah, trying to find what was called Accessibility is no good now, though
<charlie-tca> We might lose users simply because they changed words and haven't told anyone
<charlie-tca> I still can't find anything intuitive about unity, when I need to find things
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> I think in the dash you are supposed to search for stuff like "screen reader" or "keyboard" generic terms that might be in the description of the thing you are after
<charlie-tca> I did try "mousekeys" and "mousetweaks". neither one gets anything
<charlie-tca> and looking at "mouse" doesn't get me any a11y stuff
<AlanBell> yeah, interesting point
<AlanBell> those are kind of screens in the settings application which get muddled up with the other applications
<AlanBell> and I guess don't have populated individual descriptions so can't be found
<charlie-tca> I don't know, but it fast becoming impossible for me to use Unity. If I have to search for hours/days to find simple settings I need, it isn't worth it anymore. 
<charlie-tca> I did find something said fonts - normal/large/larger. I changed to large, and lost the damn gear thing in the panel. only way to restart was in terminal, using "sudo shutdown -r now" 
<maco> AlanBell: we can futz with .desktop files to get more SEO descriptions
<charlie-tca> That gets the panel resized so you have the gear thing back
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I made a prototype apps lens that groups by category http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
<charlie-tca> The problem is when they change the name without advertising it. 
<charlie-tca> all the groups you can think of are worthless if the word doesn't work
<AlanBell> sure, it is a separate thing altogether!
<AlanBell> but much better than using the filters
<AlanBell> hmm, by the time I have typed "acce" it has found "Universal Access" as the first suggestion
<AlanBell> oh great, and orca can't see it at all
<maco> trouble is if you keep typing
<charlie-tca> so, I typed too fast?
<AlanBell> well yeah, clearly it should stay there and "accessibility" should be in the description field somewhere
<charlie-tca> When you consider that the last release we had that actually worked for everyone was 10.04, it seems a bit ridiculous now to keep saying Ubuntu cares about accessibility
<maco> i dont think i ever bothered making that claim
<charlie-tca> apparently, someone needs to really get that point across to Mark
<maco> there's a perpetual "next release! next release we really WILL care about accessibility! just you watch us!"
<AlanBell> think it was going to be nailed in this release
<AlanBell> anyhow, on a positive note, I have closed a bunch of bugs today that have been fixed
<maco> that happens?????
<maco> i mean, for reasons other than "you havent said anything in 60 days and we cant stand the lack of attention"?
 * maco jerk
<AlanBell> the big one is the ctrl+s to start orca rather than the embarrassing "when you see the icon" thing
<maco> haha
<charlie-tca> hm, good thing I didn't file all the crashes I got today with the screenreader install
<AlanBell> someone half fixed bug 851694
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
<charlie-tca> no one fixed the "continue" is called "next" though
<AlanBell> if that one gets fully fixed then unity is a long way towards being OK
<AlanBell> the continue called next thing and all the odd terminology in ubiquity is all the same cause I think
<charlie-tca> I couldn't tell what was still broken in unity, there were too many crashes all at once. By the time they got done, I could not use the desktop
<charlie-tca> Maybe I will try it again tomorrow.
<charlie-tca> Can't file the crash bugs when it work at all
<AlanBell> it does sometimes go crashy
<AlanBell> but that doesn't seem a11y specific, the whole thing is just a bit wobbly
<charlie-tca> Well, 15-20 crash reports right after logging in seems really wobbly, especially when it kills all ability to do anything
<maco> AlanBell: the continue called next, is, i *think* part of that add_widget stupidity
<maco> since the variable name for the button is still next button
<AlanBell> gah, bug 851694 seems to have completely rolled back to a full fail again
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
<AlanBell> maco: yeah, I suspected as much
<maco> even though the weird thing where text is pulled from templatey bits overrides the text at one point
<charlie-tca> well, end of ranting, back to work
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: bug 781385 is tagged rls-mgr-o-tracking 
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
<charlie-tca> That only means skaet is watching it, not that someone is actively fixing it yet.
<AlanBell> indeed
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: do you know about the LDTP tests?
<AlanBell> the good thing about this bug is it would be easy to fix
<AlanBell> because it is a bit of accessibility technology that was working and has been deliberately broken to make testing easier
<charlie-tca> No, I don't
<AlanBell> automated testing that is only possible because the accessibility interfaces exist
<AlanBell> great session charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Hard to do that after that install today
<charlie-tca> But, then again, *we* are the ones that keep this going, aren't we.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-09-25
 * AlanBell sees mouse tweaks simulate secondary click working
<AlanBell> and I think I see onboard stacking above the dash
<charlie-tca> Getting several reports that Onboard is starting automatically on login today
<AlanBell> ah, no :(
<AlanBell> onboard is above the dash on unity2d, but below in unity 3d
<charlie-tca> 2d counts
<charlie-tca> If we could get all of a11y working in 2d, it can be transitioned to 3d
<AlanBell> I think it will be a mix
<AlanBell> if you want x and y use 3d, if you want w and z then use 2d
<charlie-tca> That kind of sucks, especially if screen-reader installation defaults to 2d
<AlanBell> actually I can't see much in 3d that is better than 2d
<AlanBell> probably compiz zoom
<AlanBell> and the other visual impairment things compiz can do like filters
<AlanBell> maco: just turned off the add_widget code and discovered that the upgrade button in the install says it will install 11.04!
<AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/ubiquity/oneiric/view/head:/gui/gtk/stepPartAsk.ui#L233
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-09-19
<AlanBell> bug 1053112 is totally breaking ubiquity at the moment with orca, just been talking with xnox the ubiquity developer about it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053112 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes when orca is running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053112
<AlanBell> TheMuso: would bug 1053112 be related to the new at-spi stack and orca?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053112 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes when orca is running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053112
<TheMuso> AlanBell: I'm not sure. Have you got an older daily to test with?
<AlanBell> it was working 2 days ago
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll have a dig.
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Its worth noting that there has been an ubiquity update since the last daily image build. I'll try that out first to see if the problem still persists.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-09-20
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Ok, its an at-spi bug indeed, reporting upstream.
<TheMuso> AlanBell: ...or not. I just downgraded the relevant bits of at-spi and still get the issue. Suspecting GTK now, time to dig further.,
<TheMuso> Ok, its a GTK regression.
