#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-01
<persia> ScottL, Just a couple quick notes from UDS: 1) I think that automatic full integration between pulse and jack won't land for natty (still needs thinking/discussion), although diwic should improve things.  2) UKT won't produce -lowlatency, but *will* document a clean procedure for other folk to upload kernels properly, so we can have it if someone does it.
<persia> rlamiero: I'd be very concerned about any tool that encouraged adding PPAs, but I think you know my opinions about them anyway :)
<scott-work> persia: i spoke with abogani recently (approximately one week ago) and he confirms that he has been working on the -lowlatency kernel for natty
<scott-work> this is good news indeed, and i can stop trying to bug JFo about it :)
<persia> Excellent.  It may need slight adjustment to match the document coming out of UKT, but I don't see any real obstacles to getting it into the archive for natty.
<scott-work> did UKT say when the documentation will be ready?
<persia> Based on the UDS discussion, I don't think JFo will be able to help directly, except in the sense of helping drive the delivery of the documentation.
<persia> No.
 * scott-work thinks that having clean documentation is a far better system than assigning mentors
<persia> Oh, yeah.
<persia> Assignment of mentors doesn't scale well.
<scott-work> in regards to 1),  i had reservations about full integration for natty because i expected upstream's involvement to be required
<scott-work> nonetheless, i always welcome and appreciate progress :)
<persia> My understanding is that there will be discussions with lennart at plumbers next week, but it looks like a bundle of work to get the user experience right.
<scott-work> persia: i would like to mention a few things about seeds and the -meta package
<persia> Sure.  I'm caught up on backscroll in this channel, so I saw some of the stuff you and stochastic were discussing.
<scott-work> there is quite a bit of email on the lists about this continuing and stochastic has expressed significant interest in the procedures
<scott-work> s/procedures/proceedings
<scott-work> i would like to define two weeks from now as the date that i push changes and ./update the -meta package
<scott-work> i would like to push the discussions forward to resolution by that time
<scott-work> thereby giving a couple of weeks before the first alpha is out, i presume that should be a necessary minimum of time to sort any problems
<persia> That sounds like a reasonable plan.
<persia> I'd recommend focusing on structure first: it is a lot easier to refine the details (add or remove one or two packages) later, rather than needing to do another overhaul.
<scott-work> persia: i believed we had the structure defined last time we spoke: audio-common, generation, recording    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageSelectionDevelopment
 * scott-work found many errors in the last link when updating the seeds
<scott-work> persia: and this are the steps i expect are necessary to update everything:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Sandbox#Seeds%20Update
<scott-work> i have already branched the code and updated most of the seeds, now i am waiting for all the list discussions to resolve into a final decision to make final edits before pushing
<persia> -live would include -common?
<scott-work> i should also note that it appears that a "performance" or "live" seed might be advantageous from some of the feedback, especially from stochastic
<scott-work> persia: yes, in the STRUCTURE file i expected to have -live depend on -common
<persia> I still think mixxx/terminatorx/xwax all cover a common case, and that we ought to pick one, although I've been shouted down about that before a few times over the years.
<scott-work> i believe you preferred mixxx over the other two?
<scott-work> this would align with comments from others and i would like to hear stochastic's opinion as well since he has exponentially more experience than i
<persia> xwax wasn't in the archives last time I pushed it.  I personally like the terminatorx interface and like that it's small on the image, but mixxx has *lots* more features, and some of the DJs I know have switched to using xwax more recently.
<persia> But, yeah, needs input from the experts: I'm just violently against recommending two tools to solve the same thing.  I think we should have one by default, and allow folk who want a different one to install from the repos.
<TheMuso> Would be worth getting dholbach's thoughts on xwax.
<persia> Absolutely.  I know he decided against switching from raw vinyl to mixxx in the past.
<scott-work> persia:  i agree with one tool per use and letting users install differing applications
<scott-work> sometimes it's hard to convince users of this :P   some of the mailing list can attest to this
<persia> Heh, yeah.
<persia> The -video seed is *full* of this issue.
<persia> I'm tasked with a few things from UDS that may help with that, mostly related to creating shared semantic values for "flavour" and "product", which can be used to bang the "opinionated defaults" drum a bit harder.
<scott-work> TheMuso: i read jono's latest (or one of the latest) post and noticed he mentioned your involvement with accessability in Unity, i would expect congratulations are in order :)
<scott-work> persia:  and the -video seed will most likely remain contentious for some time, even now the current discussion about seeds contains advocation for several video applications
<scott-work> persia: although i am asking if we could consolidate applications which might cover several use cases
<scott-work> persia: by "flavour" and "product" are you refering to Ubuntu distributions or something else?  i'm not sure i follow the logic about how it would help with "opinionated defaults"
<paultag> morning scott-upstairs 
<paultag> ern scott-work 
<paultag> that's what you were using :)
<scott-work> morning paultag
 * scott-work sheepishly admits he should probably log off on at least *one* computer ;)
<paultag> scott-work, have you played with znc ?
<paultag> scott-work, it will let you do all of what you normally do under one nickname, and keep you online and stuff
<paultag> Ah, here it is -- http://en.znc.in/wiki/ZNC
<AutoStatic> uname -a
<AutoStatic> he he, wrong terminal :)
<paultag> AutoStatic, :)
<paultag> BRB
<scott-work> hmmmm, i will certainly have to look into that paultag, that might greatly simplify a few things for me :)
<paultag> :)
<dholbach> hiya
<TheMuso> scott-work: I suggest also looking into bip as an alternative.
<scott-work> dholbach: we are currently evaluating the applications included in ubuntu studio, specifically DJ application at the moment
<scott-work> dholbach:  we were curious about your thoughts about xwax, since we knew that you used it
<scott-work> TheMuso: i will look into bip as well :)
<dholbach> scott-work, I'd love to push the 0.8-beta release into natty - it works great for me and it adds a 45rpm mode, which I was keen to get in :)
<dholbach> scott-work, also I'm talking to the kernel team about fixing some issue I have since some lucid sru, we're in the process of bisecting it
<scott-work> dholbach: have you tried mixxx in contrast to xwax?  do you prefer one over the other?  why?
<dholbach> I didn't try mixxx yet
<scott-work> my understanding was that mixxx has many featuers, perhaps significantly more than xwax, but i do not use DJ applications so I am not in a position to state demonstratively
<dholbach> scott-work, I didn't use mixxx as my understanding was that it was for "on your machine mixing" and not just using your machine as a 'controller'
<dholbach> but I might be wrong
<dholbach> xwax certainly works alright for my use case :)
<scott-work> dholbach: one of the studio developers (stochastic) is involved in DJ applications, hopefully we can get some clear answers and expand all of our understandings
<dholbach> scott-work, so I don't have much more input :)
<scott-work> dholbach:  we certainly appreciate you stopping by though :)
<dholbach> :-)
<stochastic__> scott-work, I would highly recommend putting both mixxx and xwax into the -playback seed, mixxx is best for software-only mixing, while xwax is best for timecoded turntables being used as a controller for mp3/ogg mixing.
<stochastic__> ScottL, scott-upstairs  ^^
<stochastic__> I was also trying to figure out which seed would be the best for putting notation software into
<stochastic__> My thoughts are that they should be put together with the programming applications such as PD, CSound, and Chuck as often the people who would use the programming software would also use notation software
<stochastic__> call it a -composition meta
<stochastic__> I also think 'generation' should be called 'synthesis' or 'creation' as generation implies generative algorithms in my mind.
<scott-work> stochastic__:  including both xwax and mixxx sound reasonable for the reasons you listed, two different use cases
<scott-work> stochastic__:  do you believe there is enough demand to create an additional seed and meta for programming applications?
<stochastic__> scott-work, yeah, I was going to add both workflows to the wiki soon
<stochastic__> scott-work, that is the one good argument against doing so, but those applications are all very lightweight, so it would likely take very little space on the disks and would be very nice for people in the field to have ready to go
<stochastic__> scott-work, where were you thinking of putting the notation applications?
<scott-work> sorry, was interrupted at work - i am worried that we will end up with five audo tasks (along with plugins, graphics, and video) for tasksel during installation, which I think might start to become overwhelming
<rlameiro> stochastic__: hey man :D long time no see :D
<stochastic__> that's an inherent issue with splitting up the metas
<stochastic__> but I am supportive of this idea for specialized metas
<stochastic__> hey rlameiro
<stochastic__> rlameiro, do you think a programming meta would be a good idea?  one that has PD, CSound, Chuck, etc... (maybe with all the add-ons such as GEM)
<rlameiro> stochastic__: yeap, there is no workflow for that, at least generally, but I talked with scott-work about it. It will be very nice for academic work also
<scott-work> debian has lots of pd stuff coming in currently
<rlameiro> stochastic__: a meta for it is completely understanble and logical
<scott-work> let's just hope debian releases before natty :P
<rlameiro> scott-work: they are putting pd-extended in debian, and they are splitting all the libs in separetad packages
<stochastic__> NICE! that's awesome
<rlameiro> yeap, hans is talking about that a long time
<rlameiro> I think the kickstrats was when he attended at the debconf
<stochastic__> scott-work, I also wanted to let you know that I'm still up for assisting with the implementation of any website changes.  I am in possession of an entire off-line backup of the site so I can test out changes fully.
<stochastic__> I am however, staying silent (but following along) during the design phase - for now.
<rlameiro> stochastic__: do you want to help me designing some testing procedures after the workflows?
<rlameiro> i will work on that after November
<stochastic__> rlameiro, testing in what sense?
<rlameiro> testing if the workflows works on the release
<rlameiro> ISO testing basically, for instance design a test for firewire audio
<rlameiro> another for ardour workflow etccc
<stochastic__> I may not have time to do that
<rlameiro> oh no, I just wanted an experienced opinion :D not asking you to make the work
<rlameiro> since you were very involved in testing
<stochastic__> rlameiro, I could offer some opinions, but really I think the workflows themselves would be self descriptive test procedures
<rlameiro> yeap i think the same, nevertheless it need to go to the QA team.
<scott-work> sorry, was upgrading from AutoCAD 2008 to AutoCAD2010 and computer restarted
<rlameiro> scott-upstairs: talking about you in LO
<rlameiro> scott-work:  talking about you in LO
<rlameiro> scott-work: finish :D
<scott-work> oh, linux outlaws?  i wrote them an email last night
<scott-work> i hope they were saying nice things *fingers crossed*
<scott-work> rlameiro: ^^^
<scott-work> i think Fab and I got a little crossed during an email exchange
<rlameiro> scott-work: he tought you where a fanboy :D and dan said him you where the US leader :D
<rlameiro> lol
<rlameiro> it was nice
<scott-work> *relieve* good :)
<scott-work> rlameiro: now, i'm all curious, what did LO say?
<rlameiro> well, now i dont remeber :D
<rlameiro> dan said it will put link about workflows etc
<rlameiro> he did say it was a long mail :D
<scott-work> oh aye, it was :P
<persia> stochastic, ScottL: http://www.mixxx.org/features.php claims that mixxx supports timecode: is something known buggy about this?
<persia> ScottL, defining "product" isn't something I'll be able to do precisely until later in the week, but it's something about how the contents of Ubuntu images are selected, which helps remind people of prior discussion on opinionated defaults (that we like one thing to do each thing, and pick one because we like it)
<stochastic> persia, xwax is much better at the timecode thing.  Sort of like qtractor can do multi-channel audio editing, but ardour does it much better.
<persia> heh, OK.
<persia> We probably ought to try to help fix that, so we can have one thing (either making xwax handle other mixing or making mixxx handle vinyl better)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-02
<TheMuso> c
<azm> Hi. Just read blog post
<azm> thats pity
<JFo> azm, what blog post?
<azm> http://dullass.blogspot.com/2010/08/state-of-ubuntu-studio-2010.html
<azm> well at least I help with stayin in this chan for this moment
<JFo> ScottL, nice blog post :)
<stochastic> scott-work, are you around?
<scott-work> stochastic: i am about to leave in 2.2496 secs
<scott-work> s/secs/minutes
<scott-work> 2.2495 minutes
<scott-work> but i'll be home in approximately one hour though
<stochastic> scott-work, okay, it's not that important, talk to you later
<scott-work> stochastic: will you be around at that time, want to talk then?
<stochastic> probably, but might be busy myself, ask me then
<scott-work> righty-o !
<stochastic> ScottL, I was just in the process of editing the workflow wiki and was about to include a workflow for creating soundtracks for movies (was going to put it in the audio section) when I realized there was one already created
<stochastic> Not only is it in the video section of the page, but it uses Open Movie Editor in place of XJadeo (the app I normally use)
<persia> stochastic, In the spirit of opinionated defaults, do you have a strong opinion why XJadeo is better than Open Movie Editor for that purpose?
<stochastic> persia, yes, the intended purpose was to have a video playback that syncs with either jack's or ardour's timecode so that the audio editing can be done in sync with the video
<persia> Excellent.  Let's make it better.
<persia> My recommendation would be to send a mail to the list with both workflows and an argument why the one using XJadeo is better.
<stochastic> Open Movie Editor is very large and has many more features than is required for this task, XJadeo is a basic stripped down player whose primary function is to sync with either jack or ardour's timecode
<persia> It's not hard to switch, but I'd much rather just select one thing.
<stochastic> me too
<stochastic> persia, I'd like to hear your explanation as to why denemo should be removed in favour of mscore
<persia> The other side of things is whether it's better to teach users to use several parts of Open Movie Editor, rather than several tools.  I'm a fan of the do-one-thing-well model rather than the everything-in-one-interface model, but it does make extra work for the docs folk.
<persia> Oh, the main reason is that denemo is exceedingly painful to maintain, and sometimes rather broken when we try to release.
<stochastic> I think most of the other features of Open Movie Editor are already duplicated in other pieces of software in the video task (OpenShot, Blender)
<persia> That sounds like a compelling argument to make Open Movie Editor an alternative application, rather than one of the featured applications.
<stochastic> re:Denemo, I have no attachment to Denemo, but am VERY attached to it's backend Lilypond (and the lilypond editor Frescobaldi) they have features that no other notation applications have and produce some of the most beautiful scores around - however they are not beginner friendly
<persia> Denemo is frescobaldi except without the attention to detail
<persia> But yeah, I agree lilypond is wonderful: I'm just not sure it's worth the effort to try to make it reasonable for new users when musescore is available, works with our stuff, and has an active upstream who have been involved with us for some time.
<stochastic> Frescobaldi does not have a point-click interface, it's meant as an text editor with graphical display, Denemo tries to be a point-click interface for Lilypond
 * stochastic will not be able to be convinced that we should drop Lilypond (but really couldn't care that much about which beginner-friendly editor we ship with)
<stochastic> persia, I like your arguments for musescore, but I believe that it serves a different audience than Lilypond
<persia> I agree.
<persia> So, I don't want to drop lilypond from the archive, and I think it's worth us putting effort into testing it and making sure it's maintained.
<persia> That said, I also think it's better to ship musescore in the images (if it works well enough), and encourage folk who need it to install lilypond later.
<persia> Does my position make more sense now?
<stochastic> yes
<stochastic> ScottL, I know you're not home yet, but maybe it's something to consider keeping workflows on that wiki page that include applications not in Ubuntu Studio's metas
<persia> I wonder if we oughtn't have two pages: "Recommended Workflows" and "Alternate Workflows"
<persia> We can point folk at the Alternates if they need something the recommended ones don't service, if it's documented there.
<persia> And we can review alternates each release to determine if we want to swap things around.
<stochastic> I think two pages would be unnecessary, we just need to mark certain workflows with items like "Advanced" or "Install program X"
<stochastic> nothing wrong with having an install step as part of the workflow
<persia> I don't like "Advanced" because it scares folk off.  There are lots of folks who self-identify as newbies who have workflows that would need such tools.
<stochastic> fair enough
<persia> My main argument in favour of two pages is to reduce the scope of the primary docs to something that makes it translation-friendly.
<persia> Once we have regularly updated docs and sufficient translators, then I'd be happy to expand to include off-image workflows by default.
<persia> And, yeah, nothing wrong with the first step being to install something, I just think we ought to encourage folk to look at the things already working by default.
<stochastic> my main argument in favour of one page would be that the page is still in early development stages and breaking it up may result in doubling of workflows and info
<stochastic> I think we're still in the "brainstorm of workflows" time period
<persia> Oh, then I completely agree with you, as long as we can separate/filter later once ScottL decides what belongs on the images.
<stochastic> once the page is well developed, then we can start to sort it into "on-image" "off-image" workflows if needed
<stochastic> and a second page may not be the best method, maybe just move those later workflows to a lower section of that page, as many users wouldn't visit a second page
<stochastic> ^^ maybe
<persia> Dunno.  That's the sort of detail decision I think is better left to whoever is willing to manage the documentation.
<stochastic> fair enough
<persia> Have to provide some incentive :)
<stochastic> :)
<ScottL> hi stochastic and persia, i would point out that zettberlin (i think) said that OpenMovieEditor isn't actively developed anymore
<persia> An extra argument for not using it by default.  I'm liking this way of reviewing applications more and more
<ScottL> :)
<ScottL> i also see we need to remove the 'mscore' package and use 'musescore' in natty
 * ScottL hopes he understands it correctly
<persia> I think we'll inherit that from Debian, as it's still needed for squeeze uploads.
<persia> s/uploads/upgrades/
<ScottL> i really appreciate the effort from the community to help with the workflows, it's absolutely amazing and fascinating
<ScottL> however if we used all the applications they suggested our image would be even bigger than it is now perhaps :P
<persia> I think it's worth adding some direction based on the discussion stochastic and I had above about primary and alternate solutions.
<persia> But that might need someone to be the documentation coordinator, etc. (ideal candidate would be willing to fill roles both in Ubuntu Studio and Ubuntu Docs, etc.)
<persia> And then you can select some subset of workflows that would enable 80%+ supported use for identified audience, etc.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-03
<ScottL> reading troy_s' latest blog post i am reminded that i could have handled the website development much better :/
<ScottL> but i hope to learn from the experience (and his blog posts) and manage the next situation in a better fashion :)
<persia> If you aren't learning, it gets boring fast :)
<ScottL> i agree persia about primary and alternate solutions
<ScottL> i just learned about "jack sessions" last week, i wonder if we should be supporting it as we are with lashd in natty?
<ScottL> or should we choose one over the other?
<ScottL> and what we would need to do if we choose to support "jack sessions" 
<persia> We probably ought involve ourselves in wider discussions so that we can have one method that users use to save full status of their work.
<persia> Could be jack sessions triggering lashd saves, or lashd saving the current jack session, or something else entirely.
<ScottL> how wide?  i would imagine this could include more than the ubuntu studio or ubuntu communities
<persia> I think it probably needs discussion at the l-a-d@ level.
<ScottL> right, that seems entirely sane
<persia> From a quick glance at archives, seems there was some discussion on the topic from June.
<persia> And I think that upstream is being sane about this sort of thing, but it may need some work, especially in terms of integrating patches into the applications.
<persia> http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/Dev/JackSession and http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/jack_session keep failing to load for me, but are probably reasonable resources.
<ScottL> stochastic, dave phillips discussed some recent news about xjadeo  http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/ecology-ardour
 * persia hugs uzbl for loading all sorts of random stuff that doesn't work with regular browsers
<ScottL> persia, those are the pages i read last week, i had no idea about jack sessions until i read those
<ScottL> dave phillips also reports that blender is working on JACK support :)
<persia> Looks a bit immature for natty, to me, but maybe we'll reach sufficient coverage before natty+1 that it would make sense to target doing local patches for the more important apps still unsupported.
<ScottL> oh yeah, i don't expect this for natty, just pointing it out because i think it's awesome
<ScottL> persia, which browser are you trying to use to open the jack sessions pages?
<persia> I was using epiphany.
<persia> But my quest for a light-weight browser that does what I want is likely to end up with some custom luakit arrangement
<scott-work> stochastic:  i think we may also be able to use wordpress for the website update
<scott-work> i've noticed many, many new official ubuntu web pages that are "Powered by WordPress", e.g. http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<scott-work> persia: i forgot if you had confirmed this or not, do we need to remove the mscore package from the natty seeds and replace it with musescore?
<scott-work> is there anything else we will need to do?  will someone else handle the actual transition package itself?
<persia> scott-work, Oh, for seeds!  Yes, absolutely mscore needs to be removed and musescore placed.  The mscore package has to be left in the archive until squeeze release.
<scott-work> persia: thank you, i'll update my branch of the seeds then
<stochastic> ScottL, switching themes/layouts within Drupal is an easy task; switching entire cms systems is much more involved.  I'm also not familiar with wordpress, so I wouldn't be much help in that situation.
<stochastic> essentially, my view is that the site runs on drupal, there's nothing that wordpress can do that drupal can't, so there's no purpose to switching
<persia> I'll argue that there are N things wordpress can do that drupal can't, and vice versa, and neither are important in the slightest: the decision ought be made based on the capabilities of the administrators, rather than for a feature, as it's vanishingly rare that either can't do something that is important for most sites.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-04
<stochastic> true
<ScottL> stochastic, part of my original concern was who was available to effect the change, those that were preferred wordpress
<ScottL> i don't particularly favour one or the other
<ScottL> however, that was the viable path at the time, but then you commented that per the security team wordpress was verboten
<ScottL> and i wanted to mention to you that it appears considerations might have changed since then
<ScottL> however, i am very happy and relieved that it appears you will be involved with the website update :)
<ScottL> good morning abogani , astraljava , AutoStatic , paultag , persia , stochastic , and everyone else :)
 * ScottL is off to work
<abogani> ScottL: Good morning to you!
<AutoStatic> Good morning
<paultag> morning there ScottL 
<scott-work> persia: i have concern about the "clean procedure" you mentioned from the UKT about getting the -lowlatency kernel into natty
<scott-work> specifically, i would prefer to get the procedure soon so we can get the kernel into natty and begin testing
<scott-work> i worry that without prompting we might not see the procedure towards the end of the development cycle for natty
<scott-work> do you have a contact with UKT that we can contact?
<astraljava> Morning scott-work!
<persia> scott-work, I think we'd all like to get the procedure soon.  I think it won't be near the end of the cycle, as there's lots of folks who will be pushing non-UKT kernels this cycle.  I expect we'll be given a contact by next week (this week ends up with a lot of sorting through UDS leftovers and task assignments).
<scott-work> persia: oustanding!  sorry if i seem impatient but i wanted to stay on top of this  :)
<scott-work> astraljava: good morning :)  have you had a chance to review any potential backport applications from maverick for lucid ?
<quadrispro> hi scott-work, persia 
<scott-work> hi quadrispro, i saw that swh-lv2 is accepted!  that was quite surprising
<quadrispro> :)
<persia> scott-work, In your role, impatience is an asset :)
<quadrispro> I'm writing a short summary of new multimedia packages which has joined Debian recently, hope to send to the ML as soon as possible
<quadrispro> now I have to leave, see you later
 * scott-work hugs quadrispro even though he left already
<paultag> heh :)
<jussi> scott-work: have we got access to the website sorted yet?
<scott-work> jussi: sadly, no.  but i haven't been bugging anyone lately either, so it's partly my fault as well
<scott-work> however, i did file a ticket for it
<jussi> scott-work: I saw the ticket :D
<jussi> also saw 2 very old tickets still open from cory and luis
<scott-work> lol, i saw luis's old ticket but not cory's
<scott-work> jussi:  persia proffered excellent advice to bug someone on #canincal-sysadmin every 29 hours which i plan to effect when a few items settle down for me
<astraljava> scott-work: Sorry, not yet. Last two weeks have been crazy. Things will slow down after the weekend, so I'm hoping to have some chances for hobbies as well then.
<jussi> scott-work: I asked about that issue with the website - they said it was "non trivial" ie. they couldnt do it right at this second. please keep bugging them
<scott-work> jussi: thank you for checking on it!  :)
<scott-work> I will certainly start bugging them and keeping at it soon, but i think we're probably two months away from directly needed access to the site
<scott-work> stochastic has a copy of the site on his local machine and he has access as well
<persia> ScottL, You'll want to subscribe to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours to get informed when the document on additional kernel flavours is completed.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-05
<ScottL> thank you persia, subscribing now
<paultag> persia, are you around perchance?
<paultag> persia, I need someone with the CC hat
<paultag> I just need a quick LP change :)
<persia> Wrong place to ask me :)  I'm around.
<paultag> persia, sorry, you were not in community-team
<paultag> that's where I'm used to doing stuff like that :)
<persia> That's not the right place either.  The right place is email to CC or /query
<paultag> OK.
<persia> And /query gets strictly limited results (for transparency/accountability reasons)
<persia> If you think CC should have a group IRC presence, please add that to the CC agenda for the next meeting: historically it's been email or informal.
<paultag> It's OK persia. No sweat.
<paultag> thanks
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> FYI I have just uploaded at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git the two git trees with packaging for -lowlatency kernel (if you are interested).
<persia> abogani, Great!  Thanks.
<astraljava> abogani: Sweet!
<scott-work> persia: you were mentioned as a good example in jono's latest blog :)  http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/05/making-our-world-more-respectful/
<abogani> :-)
<scott-work> i am assuming jono's post is at least partially in response to Bradley Kuhn's questions of Canonical's possible use of "open core" business model, but i speculate of course
<JFo> so does Brad Kuhn :-)
<JFo> speculate that is ;)
<scott-work> lol JFo
<JFo> :)
<astraljava> persia: Totally the wrong channel for this, but you mentioned your quest for a decent light browser; have you checked out midori?
<persia> scott-work, Also in response to discussions at plumbers that we aren't seeing clearly.
<persia> astraljava, Indeed I have: it's not quite what I want: heavier than the really light stuff, but lacking things I expect in the richer experience.
<astraljava> persia: That's not a very encouraging review. :D We were thinking about it for Flux', but let's see.
<persia> astraljava, For flux, it's probably a fine choice.  I have somewhat idiosyncratic wants in terms of browsers.  Midori works.
<astraljava> persia: Okay, cool. Thanks! Will have to put it under heavy testing.
<persia> It doesn't have the desktop integration of epiphany, nor the delicious separation of concerns of uzbl or luakit.  I don't think the last two are interesting for most folk, and the first only makes sense if you already have GNOME.
<persia> (mind you, the KDE guys are doing some interesting things with rekonq: which ends up being something like an integration wrapper library around the Qt webkit wrapper tools.  You might be able to do something like that for luakit, but that's upstream work vs. distro work.
<persia> BTW, where is the flux stuff being discussed?
<astraljava> persia: #fluxbuntu-devel, you're most welcome :)
<astraljava> persia: re: rekonq, really interesting!
<scott-work> persia:  are you saying that "we aren't seeing clearly" the discussion happening at plumbers...or that that discussion at plumbers is saying that "we aren't seeing clearly"?
<persia> scott-work, That we aren't at plumbers, so only have a very limited view into discussions there.  I think it's more than just response to one thing, but response to a wider volume of complaint (which often happens at plumbers).
<scott-work> persia: that is what i thought you meant, but i'm probably being a little daft presently, work has my head wrapped around pretty well currently
<scott-work> a little cheeky, this -> http://identi.ca/ubuntutwo
<persia> Yep.  Some of what is says hits just the right nerves though (and pours hyperbole on issues that would benefit from resolution)
<paultag> ScottL, I tweeted that earlier, it's so good, I love it so much
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-11-06
<ScottL> stochastic, you have done some really good stuff with the tasks and workflows
<ScottL> do you think that you could work up your alternate to zettberlin's movie soundtrack task soon?
<ScottL> i am anxious to wrap up the seeds in the next week to allow time for testing/fixing before the first alpha
<stochastic> ScottL, I simply don't have time within the next week to think about touching that page, maybe in a week or two I could get more edits in.
<stochastic> ScottL, since your first announcement to list that those workflows would be dictating Natty's meta packages, was only seven days ago, I'd highly advise you to take more time to gather input from the community before solidifying new meta package plans
<stochastic> There are a LOT of workflows that need to still be added to that page to encompass what Ubuntu Studio is about.
<persia> It's probably safe to have a graduated rollout.  Have a first revision of the changes to the new model based on what is currently available, and then adjust/revise/add as more is learned.
<ScottL> stochastic, you are absolutely correct, i am fortunate and grateful for you advice :)
<ScottL> i have been thinking about tasks and workflows for quite a while, therefore the time between my email and now seemed much long :P
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> i am curious about which types of workflows you feel are still needed, i had considered it more or less complete except for some small odds and ends
<ScottL> this could be a good educational lesson on perspective for me
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> persia, good idea, my goal will be to push the seeds this weekend for your (and/or luke's) review
<ScottL> then i'll see about ./update the meta
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-10-31
<ScottL> good morning stochastic 
<ScottL> i tried to add the -testers team to the -dev team but i can't
<ScottL> after some digging around i found out why
<ScottL> -dev is a moderated and -testers is an open team
<ScottL> and a moderated team cannot add an open team as a member
<ScottL> i am unsure what to do at this point, although i will give it more thought this week
<ScottL> good morning abogani  :)
<abogani> ScottL: Hi Scott! 
<ScottL> abogani, i registered a blueprint for the -lowlatency kernel and i believe it has been approved for uds-p 
<abogani> ScottL: very good!
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-p-lowlatency
<ScottL> it isn't "approved" yet, although i don't know who should do that
<ScottL> also it isn't scheduled, but i know to whom i should speak about that
<abogani> Subscribed!
<ScottL> yay!
<ScottL> my plan currently is to find jcastro and ask him about scheduling it and maybe helping me understand the logistics of the blueprint/meeting
<abogani> Isn't there Emmet? 
<ScottL> abogani, i am unsure if he is attending, i haven't received any responses from him for quite some time
<ScottL> i am heading downstairs now but will log on again later
<abogani> ScottL: ok
<holstein> how do you address a question like this ?
<holstein> 01:50 < npc1> hey is there a release date for US 11.10?
<holstein> thats from #ubuntu
<holstein> #ubuntustudio i mean
<holstein> jussi jussi01 could you make me ops enough in #ubuntustudio to update the topic?
<holstein> if not, would you mind to update the topic about 11.10?
<jussi> holstein: its temporary and Ill get it back off you later
<holstein> jussi: ops you mean?
<jussi> yep
<holstein> how would i "apply" for ops?
<jussi> [16:44:02] *** Mode #ubuntustudio +o holstein by ChanServ
<jussi> holstein: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements
<holstein> jussi: cool :)
<holstein> jussi: i can do that... thanks
<jussi> :)
<holstein> jussi: OK... i think im mostly caught up
<holstein> how about... When the Ubuntu IRC Council notices the need to have more operators in a particular channel or channels, they will send an email
<holstein> ^^ should i ping someone in *-irc? and ask for that?
<jussi> holstein: Im on the council
<holstein> does that mean im a "shoo-in" ;)
<holstein> i dont care to just bother you for updates too
<stochastic> hey knome, I'd love to chat a bit today regarding the site if you have time
<ScottL> running ragged at uds, but here is an interesting blueprint some might enjoy:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
<ScottL> please feel free to subscribe to the blueprint and join us in IRC.  i will post the irc channel here closer to the meeting time
<knome> stochastic, hey
<stochastic> hey knome
<stochastic> I was wondering about the fundamental layout of the homepage  and what your organization thoughts are on it
<stochastic> specifically the role of the tabs (and the area below the tabs)
<knome> go ahead
<stochastic> my brain thought they would be linked
<stochastic> but from what I see the tabs only appear on the homepage, when audio is clicked, I was expecting an audio page to appear below the tab
<stochastic> is this function planned?
<knome> not really
<knome> the tabs and the "featured" area is only on the frontpage
<knome> you should add links to the tab content if you want to direct people to other pages
<holstein> yeah?
<holstein> i didnt expect that
<knome> right
<knome> :)
<stochastic> I guess it's the inherent cognitive link that I have between a tab being the top of a page
<holstein> i was expecting the slider that is there
<holstein> but, ive seen some layouts like that already
<knome> that's how the old site worked
<holstein> and i might have been expecting it
<knome> if you expect the page to change, then just remove the "featured" area
<knome> and add the tabs to the main navi
<stochastic> Maybe it's the inclusion of the Welcome tab that is throwing me off
<stochastic> when I see that I assume that the below content is the welcome tab
<knome> hmmh
<stochastic> Could I suggest that the background shading of the tabs turn into oblong bubbles within that feature area
<stochastic> that way the link between the feature area and the below home page isn't as prominent
<knome> yeah, that's doable
<stochastic> It's just a thought.
<knome> i think that's a good idea
<knome> we just have to see what is a good style for them
<stochastic> next thought, what's up with the news page?
<stochastic> it's currently a real mess
<holstein> stochastic: would you like to help with content there?
<holstein> is that what you mean?
<stochastic> I'm up for helping wherever needed
<holstein> i think i have the kind of account to edit that content
<holstein> knome: could you 'juice' up stochastic ?
<stochastic> I just want to know what sort of direction that page needs to be heading in
<holstein> i was hoping i would see you around the water cooler stochastic :)
<stochastic> I don't want to step on the design plan too much
<holstein> stochastic: ScottL might have some more concrete plans
<holstein> for content
<holstein> for now, most is place-holdes AFAIK
<knome> stochastic, yeah, the work on the news page style is WIP
<knome> stochastic, do you have a clear idea on how to make that less of a mess?
<knome> maybe some horizontal rulers...
<knome> or just more padding between posts
<stochastic> that's the next couple words I was about to type
<stochastic> horizontal rulers
<knome> yeah
<stochastic> and also some of the posts are just too long
<knome> just use excerpts, you mean?
<stochastic> the individual stories could be clicked on to read the whole thing
<knome> or just a link of topics?
<knome> err, list
<knome> i think excerpts could be the way to go
<stochastic> hmm there could be different categories of news if needed "announcements"  "development"  "blogs/chat" etc...
<knome> you mean like http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/Packages/ ? :P
<knome> maybe a sidebar with a list of all the categories?
<knome> (and search?)
<stochastic> I like where your thoughts are headed
<stochastic> but there are no other sidebars anywhere on the site, so it could clash
<knome> we can add the same sidebar for all the pages
<stochastic> I don't know the answer, but I also trust your possible solutions
<knome> ScottL, what do we want to do with the social media stuff? you still want some twitter feeds integrated?
<ScottL> stochastic, knome :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/update-website-spec#Design
<knome> that's easy enough to change later
<ScottL> this was my original thought of required pages
<ScottL> knome, i wouldn't mind social integration but i wouldn't hold up the website for it
<knome> ScottL, that's easy enough as well to add, if you tell me *what* to add
<ScottL> stochastic, knome :  please feel free to adjust my suggestions for minimum required pages
<knome> also, what do you think of the sidebar-idea?
<ScottL> knome, do you mean use the sidebar for the social media?
<knome> ScottL, i'm not worrying about what pages you'll have. create whatever you want. i'm interested in what you want them to look like :]
<ScottL> if so, then i think this is a good idea
<knome> ScottL, sidebar for the social media, and article browsing too,
<knome> ScottL, as well as a search box if you want one
<ScottL> i think that is a good idea, stochastic, do you have any opinion on this?
<stochastic> I like the look of the site as-is 'sans sidebar' but maybe a sidebar would look equally as/more elegant
<stochastic> a search function is almost required imho
<knome> yeah, we can add it without breaking up the elegancy
<ScottL> +1 search required
<knome> to you want the search in the header area rather than the sidebar?
<knome> (as was in the original myhaiku.org draft)
<knome> it would make more sense in the sidebar if you have the category links there too
<ScottL> i think it would seem more logical in the sidebar to me
<stochastic> knome maybe you should play around with a sidebar design and see where pieces fit best
<knome> and it could be the topmost thing in the sidebar, allowing it to show immediately
<knome> stochastic, mm-hmm
<ScottL> +1 search in the top of sidebar
<stochastic> design by committee is often un-productive
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah, i know...
<ScottL> stochastic, would you mind taking the lead on this?  i would actually prefer it
<stochastic> ScottL, on what part exactly?
<ScottL> stochastic, the layout design would be great, more if you feel good about it
<ScottL> the only thing that i am pretty adamant about is that i feel we need a "feature tour" to explain ubuntu studio to people unfamiliar with it
<stochastic> isn't that what that main page feature panel is all about
<stochastic> or are you thinking about something different ScottL ?
<stochastic> I did just update the AudioPackages link - is that on the right track?
<ScottL> stochastic, i thought that the feature tour would describe five or so bullet point and explain them somewhat, like 1. ubuntu studio is FOSS, 2. based on ubuntu, 3. jack is the sound server, 4. jack and 5. something else
<ScottL> stochastic, i was thinking that the purpose of the feature tour would be to explain what ubuntu studio offers to people who might be interested, but not yet using, ubuntu studio
<stochastic> Okay, I can sort out a feature tour to add to the welcome screen
<ScottL> do you mean you will integrate the feature tour to the front page or just a link to another page with the content?
<stochastic> knome can you play around with a sidebar concept (if it fits) and tidy up news and news categories
<stochastic> not sure yet ScottL
<ScottL> my original thought was that the feature tour would actually either be several sequential pages or an automated slideshow with text
<knome> yeah, i'm already into it
<stochastic> knome, actually, re:tabs what if we just reversed the vertical shape of the tabs?  That would make it very clear to me what they relate to 
<knome> hmm?
<ScottL> gotta go, i'll be back on later tonight though
<stochastic> ScottL, yeah, that's what I picture when you first mentioned it
<ScottL> stochastic, knome: if there is anything in particular you want to discuss with me, you can always email me at scottalavender@gmail.com
<knome> stochastic, see frontpage
<knome> or any page..
 * stochastic looks
<knome> stochastic, re: tabs, do you mean they should be on the top rather than the bottom?
<stochastic> sidebar looks good but might be a touch wide
<knome> mmh, i know
<knome> but if you stretch the window (make it narrower), it's about right
<stochastic> tabs I mean should have their curvy section below the words rather than above them (i.e. the background shading should just get vertically flipped)
<knome> we could try a fixed-width sidebar too, but that's some work :)
<knome> hmm....
<knome> like, on top of the white area?
<stochastic> knome, keep them in the same spot, but flip the background shading of them.  I'll gimp up a mockup of what I mean
<knome> okay, thanks
<stochastic> knome, http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/screenshotat20111031151.png/
<knome> yeah, as i said, on top of the white area :]]
<stochastic> that was the thought, not sure what I think of it
<stochastic> :)
<knome> i'm not sure if this makes it any more clear
<knome> wouldn't you expect the content the change below the tabs NOW?
<stochastic> no, the shape of the tabs to me reminds me of a filing cabinet's tabs or a control pannel's tabs were the base of the trapezoid moves
<knome> heh
<stochastic> I'll play around with some more mockups...
 * knome grabs a beer
<knome> okay, the sidebar is fixed-width now
<stochastic> knome, here's one I like: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/screenshotat20111031151.png/
<knome> ugh :)
<stochastic> thoughts?
<knome> that's a good style, but it's quite flat
<knome> it's a bit boring-looking
<knome> it's thing on top of other on top of other on top of other...
<stochastic> okay, I'm sure it can be jazzed up/sorted out
<knome> the current style is a bit more interesting for the eye
<stochastic> I find it just confuses the brain
<stochastic> :)
<knome> the current style became when we wanted to separate the tabs from the main navi
<stochastic> yeah
<stochastic> I just think it'd be good to move away from tabs
<stochastic> maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it
<knome> what if they were something like dots
<stochastic> possibly
<knome> then you of course couldn't have titles for them
<knome> well, that wouldn't look good
<stochastic> a mouseover expand title?
<knome> yeah
<stochastic> I like that thought
<knome> okay, i'll try that
<stochastic> sweet, I do have to run out for a bit, I'll be back in an hour or two
<knome> sure, np
<stochastic> knome you still around?
<knome> yup
<stochastic> I like the look of those circles
<knome> mm-hmm
<stochastic> though maybe if they were faded around the edges?
<knome> could be
<stochastic> or possibly smaller and more spaced apart
<knome> imo they should be quite large
<knome> so people notices them
<knome> as they don't have any labels
<stochastic> okay
<stochastic> I was also thinking the mouseover event could just display a text div whose CSS properties change from 'display:none;'
<stochastic> rather than the cursor mouseover
<knome> hmm
<knome> you want a more instant reaction?
<stochastic> i mean the current mouseover you need to hover for a while
<stochastic> yeah
<stochastic> a touch of javascript could easily do that
<knome> yup
<knome> mm
<knome> true
<knome> could be done with pure CSS too
<stochastic> oh, didn't know that
<knome> heh, yeah :)
<stochastic> you could play with where the text sits, but I think a more instant reaction would be better, and look better than the current mouseover label
<knome> mmh
 * stochastic wonders if the labels should even be hidden (could it look nice with small text above the dots and more space between them?)
<stochastic> just thinking out loud
<knome> or text right to all the dots?
<stochastic> sure
<knome> i thought that before working on the current style
<knome> but this was easier to do
<stochastic> okay
<stochastic> well I'm going to crack a beer and start work on more content
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-01
<knome> hehe
<knome> good job
 * knome is having his fourth
<knome> going to bed
<knome> see you tomorrow
<ScottL> more information about the -lowlatency blueprint:  http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/11/lowlatency-kernel-for-ubuntu-studio.html
<ScottL> sorry for the drive by, gotta go
<stochastic> Hey everyone, I just wanted to quickly say that I'm looking forward to making 12.04 an outstanding release of Ubuntu Studio.  I hope I can help others here along the way.
<stochastic> Has a team meeting happened lately? or happening soon?
<stochastic> ScottL, I won't be capable of making the meeting tomorrow, but I look forward to reading the logs.
<ScottL> stochastic, hi!
<ScottL> a meeting happened a while ago, but since development was rather stagnant during large parts of last cycle it certainly has been a while
<ScottL> both holstein and i are looking forward to doing meetings more often, perhaps weekly, if only for a small group of people
<ScottL> perhaps informal meeting to just touch base
<stochastic> nice.
<ScottL> i think given the scope of the changes coming forward that we should really stick to weekly or perhaps every other week meetings, at least on the informal level
<stochastic> Afternoons are best for me for the foreseeable future.
<ScottL> that is good :)
<ScottL> i think most involved lately are available during this time, perhaps shnatsel being the exception (but i could be wrong)
<shnatsel> yep, I'm an exception
<shnatsel> It's 3:08 AM in here
<stochastic> shnatsel, would say 8am your time be doable? that'd be 9pm for me.
<shnatsel> hardly
<stochastic> your idea?
<shnatsel> I'm not sure about my schedule yet; after today's hacking I'm going to be kicked out of the university
<stochastic> *ideal time?
<shnatsel> and I'm completely drained atm
<stochastic> okay
<shnatsel> whatever is best for you guys.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-02
<knome> i sent scott a blind carbon copy of this email too, but just FYI: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-November/008025.html
<holstein> knome: COOL
<holstein> i was thinking like 6 months :/
<knome> i will be back after that even more refreshed and ready to fight the bugs :P
<knome> nah
<knome> i can't, now that i've just been selected as the new project lead :P
<craigs63> Is this the right channel for the 10:00EST mtg?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-03
<ScottL> stochastic, ping
<holstein> hey bobweaver :)
<ScottL> hi bobweaver 
<holstein> ScottL is the project lead
<holstein> ScottL: i just grabbed bobweaver from #ubuntu-beginners
<bobweaver> Hello ScottL  
<ScottL> bobweaver, are you interested in ubuntu studio?
<bobweaver> Yes I am 
<holstein> he's a gold start supporter in the *-beginners channel
<holstein> and was asking about how to get more involved helping
<bobweaver> thanks holstein  !!
<holstein> maybe something to put on the resume
<holstein> and i told him we need more code-minded folk
<holstein> to help with backporting and maintaining our upcomping LTS :)
<ScottL> absolutely!
<ScottL> is there particular type of task you would like to assist with?  or would you like me to run down a few topics?
<bobweaver> topics would be great ! thanks 
<ScottL> we are going to need testers
<ScottL> for general testing throughout the cycle which includes both QA ISO image testing and actual performance testing
<ScottL> the QA stuff is only about once a month
<ScottL> the other is usually for only specific items we are concenred with
<ScottL> we will need specific testers perhaps for the -lowlatency kernel we are tyring to get into ubuntu studio
<ScottL> the broader the hardware available for tetsing the better
<bobweaver> ScottL,  would you like to see lshw ? 
<holstein> yeah, virtualbox, netbooks... supercomputers ;)
<holstein> whatever
<ScottL> we will be moving towards a live dvd and incorporating a patched ubiquity
<ScottL> bobweaver, sure :)
<bobweaver> ScottL,  I had to patch ubqity on a distro that I made :>) 
<ScottL> super cool :)  we will be stealing much from what edubuntu does, but having experience should make it even easier i hope
<ScottL> bobweaver, the idea with the ubiquity patch is to allow users to select specific work flows during installation and download those packages
<ScottL> this allows us to support specific work flows and tool chains without having to make everyone download every app when they will not use most of them
<ScottL> we will most likely ship a standard set of workflow packages on the dvd though
<ScottL> we will be also updating our wallpaper, theme, UI, and lightdm theme this cycle
<ScottL> holstein, this is the guy i talked to today who said he's coming back to canonical but wants to help us as well, he has recording experience too
<ScottL> https://launchpad.net/~awe
<ScottL> bobweaver, how does any of that sound to you?
<ScottL> we have other stuff as well, like updating documentation and other kinda tedious, menial stuff as well
<bobweaver> that all sounds GREAT  http://paste.ubuntu.com/726901/
<bobweaver> that is hardware inso 
<bobweaver> info * 
<bobweaver> I am the kinda person that might need some direction  but I am supper willling to help 
<bobweaver> what I mean by that is 
<bobweaver> I might need to be told what to do 
<bobweaver> kinda shy 
<bobweaver> But I want to jump in with you great people :>) 
<ScottL> bobweaver, it looks like you are using the onboard audio on that laptop
<ScottL> but sure, we can provide direction on stuff to help with
<bobweaver> so like docs and vector stuff gimp and pretty good at 
<ScottL> did holstein say you have done coding?  or was that someone else?
<bobweaver> I have 
 * ScottL is checking backscroll
<ScottL> okay, which language?  python maybe?
<ScottL> done any GUI work with the programming, glade perhaps?  or qt?
<bobweaver> sure I know python perl lisp lua luna c c++ c# ect 
<ScottL> LOL...rock on man!
<ScottL> i've never even heard of lua :)
<bobweaver> lua is great scripting lan 
<ScottL> yeah, yeah...we can probably find you something to code later on :)
<bobweaver> fast 
<bobweaver> lua is WOW 
<ScottL> here's a quick thumbnail of where we are at currently
<bobweaver> I think 
<ScottL> last release sucked for some very specific reasons
<ScottL> it was extremely functional but not pretty
<ScottL> and there have been some major milestone improvements we have been trying to get done for years
<ScottL> this cycle we make it pretty and get those milestone improvements done
<ScottL> these generally include the things i mentioned previously
<ScottL> i.e.
<ScottL> 1. lowlatency kernel
<ScottL> 2. live dvd
<ScottL> 3. update website
<ScottL> 4. update theme and UI
<ScottL> and wallpaper
<ScottL> 5. update lightdm theme
<ScottL> we get that and i think we are pretty good
<ScottL> holstein, did i miss anything for 12.04?
<ScottL> heh, he might be busy or afk for a bit
<holstein> ScottL: i dont think so
<holstein> yeah, i just made it back in the door
<ScottL> oh, good :)
<holstein> looks good
<ScottL> but bobweaver, we do have some long range goals that include some coding stuff
<bobweaver> I would say for this up and coming project I I am best fit in cat 3,4and 5  
<ScottL> doesn't mean we can't start on it now though
<bobweaver> ScottL,  yes I do 
<ScottL> bobweaver, do you know about lightdm and theming it?
<bobweaver> yes a little 
<ScottL> that's probably our weak link right now
<ScottL> .g UDS
<ScottL> bleargh
<bobweaver> are you also doing a neew plymouth ? 
<holstein> i should get thelonius over here though
<ScottL> yeah, i keep doing that holstein :P
<holstein> whats the deal with bots in this channel?
<holstein> its not logged right?
<holstein> eh... for later..
<ScottL> bobweaver, we hadn't really planned on it, it looks fairly decent compared to the other items, but if we have time then i wouldn't mind it
<bobweaver> ScottL,  do you want me to sign a ND ?
<bobweaver> non -=disclose 
<ScottL> non disclosure?  naw
<ScottL> this is all open source stuff, it's all available in the repository, including source code
<holstein> yup
<ScottL> but back to lightdm, here's the deal
<holstein> you can sign a disclosure agreement ;)
<ScottL> ubuntu with unity is really freaking up the unity-lightdm-greeter package
<ScottL> i'm l;earning a abit about this at UDS in florida
<bobweaver> you are at the dev summit lucky !
<ScottL> so luke, i.e. the.muso, is suggesting that we use the lightdm engine or backend but use the gtk-lightdm-theme
<ScottL> or whatever the pakcage names are
<ScottL> apparently the guys working on the unity-greeter are making it really, really fancy with stuff we don't need and hardcoding stuff which will make it difficult to make it work how we want
<ScottL> bobweaver, it's really exciting being here, but it's a complete drain on me mentally and physically
<bobweaver> :>) 
<ScottL> i'm starting to have trouble seeing properly and i'm getting really tired
<bobweaver> get some sleep 
<bobweaver> we are on the same time line 
<ScottL> bobweaver, i'm okay for now, i need to get some stuff done tonight and this is important as well
<ScottL> this is a good page to keep up with:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ContributeToDevelopment
<ScottL> i'll be updating it tonight and tomorrow with some of the stuff we talked about and more
<bobweaver> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/josephmills     <--me  
<ScottL> bobweaver, but back to #3, #4, and #5
<ScottL> thanks
<bobweaver> np 
<ScottL> #3 is probably well covered
<ScottL> and #4 we will be stealing quite a bit from xubuntu, although you are welcome here as well
<ScottL> and #5 probably needs help as we discussed
<bobweaver> cool 
<bobweaver> I will read everything that I can tonight 
<bobweaver> also can you get me more info on what you have heard there please 
<bobweaver> maybe email me in the next day or so 
<bobweaver> or when ever 
<bobweaver> can I also get what you guys have right now 
<bobweaver> is there daily builds ?> 
<ScottL> bobweaver, let me find a few links for you
<bobweaver>  I am going to DL the os right now 
<ScottL> here is where the dailies will be built:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/
<ScottL> oh, they are not being built right now i believe
<ScottL> it's showing the last for oneiric i think
<bobweaver> cool 
<ScottL> finding other links, connection is slow....
<bobweaver> sweet 
<ScottL> here is our current code for our lightdm theme:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
<ScottL> xubuntu will be making changes as well during this cycle (they are in the same position) and we may coordinate about that with them
<bobweaver> that is Great 
<ScottL> but i certainly would not be upset if we lead the way in this and then helped them out for a change ;)
 * bobweaver grins 
<holstein> yeah, id like to see that too
<holstein> that team is really why we have a release this cycle
<ScottL> the theme, UI, and wallpaper is a bit messier because it's spread across various packages though and i'm not sure how it aligns with xubuntu's packages
<ScottL> maybe we should wait a bit until someone from xubuntu is back next week or so
<ScottL> i can talk to mica though while i'm here about who we should talk to in xubuntu-devel about the theming, holstein 
<ScottL> bobweaver, even if you start with concept "sketches" (via gimp or inkscape or whatever) for the lightdm theme, we'd love to see them and give some guidance
<bobweaver> that sounds Great 
<ScottL> holstein, i still want to do a OMG!UbuntuStudio! blog ;)
<bobweaver> I am also pulling apart the souce code for light dm 
<bobweaver> source * 
<holstein> yup :)
<bobweaver> I like it alot simple 
<ScottL> cool, bobweaver, i'll talk to someone tomorrow about some issue with lightdm as well and feed it back to you
<ScottL> bobweaver, are you a graphics kinda guy too?  can you make wallpapers?
<bobweaver> that sounds wonderfull
<bobweaver> oh yeah 
<bobweaver> icons 
<bobweaver> and what not also 
<ScottL> okay, later in the week i'll try to get you some ideas for wallpapers, etc
<ScottL> i think it would be nice to have a "theme" across the wallpaper and lightdm background
<bobweaver> I know when I was doing my distro I was always looking for vector  work for icons 
<ScottL> and i think i can do it conceptually
<ScottL> holstein, do you have another five minutes to work on the etherpad a little more for tonight?
<bobweaver> I think that a theme sounds like a good idea 
<ScottL> i'm tired but i would like to finish that to a certain stage if we can
<ScottL> bobweaver, i saw a really cool image yesterday that was inspirational
<holstein> im there! :)
<bobweaver> ScottL,  cool pictures ?? 
<ScottL> bobweaver, i wish i did!  now i have to see if they scheduled another session, sneak in, and take a picture
 * bobweaver nods 
<ScottL> holstein, one more thing, what do you think about making a visual design statment by using the ubuntu monospace font
<ScottL> http://design.canonical.com/2010/11/the-monospace-is-coming/
<holstein> a statement like 'i dont really care for the ubuntu-monospace font' ;)
<holstein> ScottL: nah, what do you have in mind?
<holstein> something like what we have, but with this font?
<ScottL> it was just a thought, but yeah, just switching to a different font but keeping stuff the same
<ScottL> xubuntu uses droid which might be slightly small
<holstein> i like what we got too
<ScottL> that's cool then, was just thinking about stuff
<holstein> theres a sense of branding that i dont mind keeping
<ScottL> i wouldn't even mind change the Circle of Friends (CoF)
<ScottL> did you know that the circles in the CoF is supposed to be audio waves?
<ScottL> i don't know how many know that
<ScottL> okay, going to bed now but leaving irc open
<holstein> nah
<holstein> OH... you mean the logo?
<holstein> yeah, i did know that
<ailo> Hello guys
<ailo> ScottL, How are things going?
<ailo> Could someone ask abogani not to update his kernels faster than Ubuntu does. Usually he doesn't, but now, in order to get nvidia drivers working, you need kernel headers, and they are uninstallable as long as -generic headers are not existing as well
<ScottL> hello ailo , how are you?!
<ScottL> we haven't talked in a while, my friend
<ScottL> we have been working on with the kernel team to set up a nice working relationship to get the -lowlatency kernel into the repos
<ScottL> i believe we will get it down this cycle (as long as the kernel guys keep their end of the bargain)
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> hallo shnatsel , i spoke wih the ubiquity patch dev yesterday
<shnatsel> ScottL: hello!
<ScottL> he seems very keen in us using his patch (and maybe helping to maintain it too)
<shnatsel> ScottL: great!
<shnatsel> yay!
<ScottL> the guy seems rather brilliant
<shnatsel> ScottL: have you met the cdimage team yet?
<ScottL> shnatsel, holstein and i were talking last night about how we should handle this transition as well
<ScottL> no, i have not met the cdimage team, per se
<shnatsel> ScottL: that patch kinda defines seeds structure, we'll have to make quite a lot of small overlapping seed metapackages
<ScottL> i have met many people on it and they know my intent though, i assure you of that
<ScottL> shnatsel, that is what me and holstein talked about
<shnatsel> awesome!
<ScottL> we were thinking of keeping the seed changes somewhat small this time, not too much delta
<ScottL> we can always add to them in the coming cycles
<ScottL> but we want to make sure we get things done this cycle!
<ScottL> not bite off to much
<shnatsel> hmm
<ScottL> or spend too much time thinking about seeds and workflows
<shnatsel> yeah, fair enough
<ScottL> shnatsel, these were the ones we thought about last night, not written in stone yet, but considering....
<ScottL> 1. light-installation
<ScottL> 2. audio-recording
<ScottL> 3. audio-generation
<ScottL> 4. video
<ScottL> 5. graphics
<ScottL> and audio-common will be pulled in by #2 or #3
<shnatsel> oh, ok
<ScottL> we are also considering a possible #6 for podcasting
<shnatsel> sounds sane
<shnatsel> I'd also add photography.
<ScottL> but i don't know if itis tehre
<ScottL> OH GOOD!
<ScottL> please make suggestions for additions and modifications
<ScottL> i will write photography down as well
<ScottL> mike and i talked about reviewing with workflow page again to see if we were missing anything in particular
<shnatsel> because, there is darktable, there is cinepaint which is not packaged, there are photographic plugins for GIMP...
<ScottL> _can_ cinepaint be packaged?  i seem to remember some difficulty about it
<ScottL> perhaps it was unstable at the time and crashed alot
<shnatsel> ScottL: AFAIK last time they tried to do it, there were some bugs on the debian side
<shnatsel> ScottL: and then the process stalled for years
<ScottL> i am supposed to speak with quadrispro while here, i'll ask him about it
<shnatsel> ScottL: and right now cinepaint website doesn't seem to be maintained
<ScottL> oh :(
<ScottL> what do you suggest for importing the images from camera?
<ScottL> i really should go back and refresh myself with the work flows page
<shnatsel> ScottL: Darktable I guess
<shnatsel> ScottL: not quite sure though
<ScottL> oh, i didn't know it would import images
<shnatsel> let me check...
<ScottL> i'm not very familiar with darktable to be forthcoming
<shnatsel> ScottL: yes, it can
<ScottL> cool
<ScottL> i'm really excited about all this stuff
<ScottL> shnatsel, next week i would like to really have a pretty final idea of what we want as far as seeds
<ScottL> colin watson (cjwatson) has asked that i give him a block diagram of where we are heading and i am keen to keep him happy
<ScottL> especially since he is involved with the cdimage team ;)
<ScottL> we can certainly make considerations for additional workflows we might consider supporting later on and include them as potentials as well
<ScottL> in fact i would firmly suggest this
<ScottL> i am also trying to figure out how to do roadmaps in launchpad as well
<ScottL> i've met a lot of people here and some have asked about this and getting the roadmap would be an easy way to make things public and accessible
<shnatsel> ScottL: I think I'll go updating the workflows
<shnatsel> s/go updating/go update/
<ScottL> good :)  i should have time today and i'll review them as well just to refresh my memory
<ScottL> shnatsel, i'm at uds and it is a very intense, exciting experience, but it leaves very little free time to do things
<shnatsel> ScottL: awesome, Darktable covers almost all protographic workflow!
<ScottL> sweet!  that is really great news and thank you for doing the work to get it into the repos
<ScottL> that is awesome :_)
<ScottL> :-)
 * jussi waves to ScottL
<ScottL> hi jussi :)
<shnatsel> ScottL: oh btw, I've failed to get anything into Debian repos, I've stuck with their buggy tools and obscure processes
<ScottL> i can talk to quadrispro about these as well,
<shnatsel> ScottL: I think I'll just post to debian multimedia mailing list, give links to the packages and let them mess with their processes themselves
<ScottL> ah good!
<ScottL> i have found them to be most helpful
<ScottL> shnatsel, which packages are you considering?
<shnatsel> ScottL: I've started from GIMP Paint Studio
<shnatsel> ScottL: never got to other packages
<ScottL> shnatsel, if there is any one particular that you really want for this cycle, you might hurry and at least mail their list about them
<ScottL> we will be running into debian freeze for ubuntu not too far from now
<ScottL> but i'll make it a point to ask alessio about gimp paint studio when i see him
<ScottL> is there another specific package or two that you really want to get in now?
<shnatsel> ScottL: thanks!
<ScottL> shnatsel, you are most welcome, my friend :-)
<shnatsel> ScottL: well, XFCE have changed their thumbnailing architecture, so ora-thumbnailer for Thunar is out 
<shnatsel> ScottL: it would be absolutely awesome to get gimp-painter in
<shnatsel> ScottL: but since it's a patched GIMP 2.6 and the patches are no longer maintained (though they're really stable by now), it will be hard to do
<holstein> ailo: YO
<holstein> im about to do some testing, and i was hoping i could find you to help me stay scientific about it
<holstein> and when i say 'about to' i mean next week
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<ScottL> here is a preliminary plan for precise.  can people review it and make additions/modificantions/comments?
<ScottL> i am hoping to some how document a roadmap for precise, shnatsel do you have any experience with creating a roadmap in launchpad?
<ScottL> i will be back online in about ten/fifteen minutes
<ScottL> unplugging and back into channel in fifteen 
<shnatsel> ScottL: yes I do, see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/0.2
<ScottL> shnatsel, i am saving that link and will check it in fifteen or so
<shnatsel> ScottL: it's no way urgent
<ScottL> shnatsel, that link is your "roadmap"?
<ScottL> i ask because i'm not exactly clear about what defines a roadmap
<shnatsel> ScottL: yes, those are our plans for 0.2 release with details, links to specs and code, status info, etc
<shnatsel> ScottL: ubuntu uses the same, + they have strictly formatted work items in blueprint whiteboards
<ScottL> i seem to remember other projects using a roadmap which had a more visual or graphical aspect to it
<ScottL> it seems that ubuntu does not follow the same model
<shnatsel> ScottL: than it works like this: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/
<ScottL> again, i am very ignorant about roadmaps
<shnatsel> ScottL: docs on that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<ScottL> brilliant!
<shnatsel> ScottL: ask ubuntu guys, you're at UDS!
<ScottL> i already have but haven't gotten an answer yet, i'm scheduled to later though :)
<shnatsel> ScottL: talk to the devs to get your ubuntu flavor there
<ScottL> uds is extremely fast paced and busy, finding time to actually talk is sometimes difficult
<ScottL> shnatsel, that is another conversation i'm trying to schedule with kate stewart (release manager) who uses that page mainly
<ScottL> sadly, i just learned about this page yesterday :(
<ScottL> shnatsel, but i should say that you are a wealth of information and have helped ubuntu studio considerably :-)
<ScottL> just moving to blueprints has been a great move
<shnatsel> ScottL: thanks :)
<shnatsel> ScottL: yeah, sometimes I just do nothing and tell others what to do, and somehow it's helpful :_
<shnatsel> :)
<ScottL> any other pages or ideas you think are helpful, please let me know
<ScottL> lol :)
<ScottL> ^^^ that was in reference to "telling others what to do"
<shnatsel> ScottL: switching to elementary desktop in 12.10? ^^
<ScottL> lol, maybe ;)  it would certainly make a design statement
<shnatsel> ScottL: oh btw, you can catch some elementary project guys at UDS
<ScottL> i've seen a session listed and i checked to see if you were there
<shnatsel> ScottL: see what they have to offer and discuss the collab possibilities
<ScottL> i will try to catch them
<shnatsel> ScottL: I'm not at UDS because I live in Russia and the trip would cost an insane amount of $$ :(
<ScottL> nobody has any comments on the preliminary release plan?
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<astraljava> I'll read it thoroughly later when the fever's gone.
<ScottL> astraljava, i'm sorry to hear you have a fever
<astraljava> Thanks. No worries, didn't have to work yesterday nor today, and I'll probably be home tomorrow as well.
<ailo> holstein, I've been thinking about doing some testing myself. Haven't thought much about it yet, so all I can assist with at the moment would be to describe how we did precious tests
<holstein> ailo: sure
<holstein> thats enough
<holstein> just keeping it scientific
<holstein> i want to test with my USB, some interenal hardware and firewire
<holstein> with the new generic kernel
<holstein> maybe even a mainline
<holstein> theres a script on the way too that scott is privvy too
<ailo> Yea, I've got pci and firewire myself. I could borrow a usb as well
<ailo> A script?
<ailo> That's the way I would like to go. Just haven't started working on it at all, since we talked about it at the beginning of this year
<holstein> yeah, ive been busy too
<holstein> a break-up
<holstein> a move
<holstein> not all bad, but still...
<holstein> anyways, i'll look for you when i actually get harware prepared
<holstein> it would be easier for me to do it with a live CD, but whatevre
<holstein> ever*
<holstein> i want to find the mainline kernel for 12.04 i guess
<ScottL> ailo, you mentioned a script earlier for testing the kernel
<ScottL> during the -lowlatency kernel blueprint the kernel guys mentioned this quite a bit
<ScottL> apparently one of the guys has been wanted to quantify kernel performance for some time
<ScottL> which also happens to align with the upstream desires to quantify performance as well
<ScottL> they talked about a pacakge in red hat called 'rteval'
<ScottL> although they are considering setting up a chain of computers to test latency
<ScottL> as well, not just the rteval test
<ScottL> the test would be to have a computer generate tones that would be routed through the test machine and measure by either the first or another machine
<ScottL> very objective i think
<ScottL> they want to do this on variety of audio interfaces and compile a 'latency range'
<ScottL> you can read more in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency
<ScottL> and here are the etherpad notes:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19798/other-p-lowlatency/
<ailo> Looks great ScottL.
<stochastic> ailo, ScottL ain't in at the moment
<stochastic> argh, sorry I had my window scrolled up, not seeing the current conversation
<ailo> stochastic, Are you an old contributor to US? I don't remember if I've seen you here before. 
<ailo> I appeared myself at the beginning of this year
<stochastic> Yeah, I've been around for a bit here, but the past year or two have been too busy with work (two jobs totalling 70hrs+/week)
<stochastic> nice to meet you ailo
<ailo> stochastic, Likewise
<ailo> Can't say I've contributed much, though I did spend some time testing kernels and coding a replacement for us-controls
<ailo> Happy to see that -lowlatency is getting some attention now
<ailo> One of my main motives on helping US was that since it's in the main repo, you'd be able to add stuff for making any Ubuntu derived distro audio friendly
<ailo> And, the kernel is of course the most important component, since most of the apps come from Debian
<ailo> Also, us-controls would be a nice app for tuning the system for pro audio, so that users won't need to know all the details in order to make it happen. Just push a button.
<stochastic> nice
<ailo> Those were my goals, pretty much. Haven't done much to reach them these last months, though
<stochastic> I agree, though it's always good for us to help get useful apps into Debian (or directly into US)
<stochastic> Well I'm looking forward to making 12.04 a killer release.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-04
<stochastic> Hey ScottL you pinged me earlier
<ScottL> oh yeah :)
<stochastic> got time to talk?
<ScottL> yes, certainly
<ScottL> i was wondering if you were going to lead the website update
<ScottL> or what level of involvement you were planning
<ScottL> i will need to manage a lot of stuff and i was hoping you could take a sizable portion of the website update
<ScottL> i would expect to help with content however
<ScottL> i did look at the website and it looks like you have already been busy
<ScottL> i think it was last night that i looked
<ScottL> stochastic, are you there?
<ScottL> oh, i didn't tell you that randall from the vancouver loco is my roommate (at least i don't think i've told you already)
<stochastic> oh, sorry, was writing an e-mail
<ScottL> hehe, no problem
<ScottL> i'm working on the wiki myself ;)
<stochastic> sizeable would be an apt word to describe what I can help with on the website
<stochastic> say hi to randall for me
<stochastic> do you have a draft for the tour that you were thinking of?
<stochastic> 1.install, 2.basic operation & GNU 3.audio apps or audio config 4.audio apps or audio config  5. video apps 6. Graphics apps 8.Community
<stochastic> ScottL, ^^
<ScottL> my thought was an introduction to people unfamiliar with ubuntu studio or ubuntu (or perhaps linux) that would entice them to try it
<ScottL> do you think perhaps a "feature tour" _and_ a "what is ubuntu studio" might be in order?
<ScottL> oh, i also read the irc log and aiolo's comments about the -controls update was meant for people who "upgrade" from ubuntu i think
<ScottL> stochastic, did you see the primilinary release planning?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<ScottL> please make any changes you feel are necessary
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> this cycle will be different from previous cycles
<ScottL> perhaps because we are more involved but also because canonical are doing things different
<ScottL> the release manager has changed how our progress is tracked
<ScottL> we will be filing blueprints for our goals for this cycle and she will track that progress automatically
<ScottL> it's actually quite cool
<ScottL> plus also motivated to have it all organized and tracked
<ScottL> if you are intersted in seeing it:  status.ubuntu.com
<ScottL> ubuntu studio isn't there because we didn't get into this last cycle
<ScottL> the flip side to this is that the team really needs to be serious and commitments not made lightly
<ScottL> if someone commits to getting something done this cycle, we should really try to honor it
<ScottL> i also hope that we can take reasonable responsibilities and actually might assume less that we think we can accomplish
<stochastic> wonderful.
<stochastic> :)
<ScottL> i really am excited about this
<ScottL> it should help us get organized, plan, and keep honest about doing stuff :)
<ScottL> this is kinda why i'm pushing the preliminary release planning page ;)
<stochastic> good
<stochastic> let's get an official (bi)weekly time setup to check into that plan soon
<ScottL> maybe we should get commitments from people and let that determine where we are at on the plan
<ScottL> good idea
<ScottL> i also want to start hitting stuff pretty hard fast to get stuff done
<ScottL> perhaps we don't put the website as an "official" thing to get done this cycle, we can still do it of course but it won't look bad if we don't then
<ScottL> but maybe we should to get it bloody well done
<stochastic> we're getting it done.
<stochastic> It was being discussed last cycle I was around.
<stochastic> It's starting to become 'now or when.....?'
<ScottL> lol, yeah i know
<ScottL> me and holstein were saying that _anything_ would be better than what it currently is actually
<stochastic> I look forward to you just filling in spots around the new webpage when you're bored.
<ScottL> i wanted to also update some of the application names as well
<ScottL> back to the feature vs introduction pages, do you have an opinion?
<stochastic> yes, have you seen the approach I'm taking with application listings on the new site?
<ScottL> i saw a list to the package set, is there something else?
<stochastic> http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/audio-packages/ <- this is the most developed so far
<stochastic> Just highlighting certain major apps as an intro
<stochastic> were you wanting to see it more based off those task/workflow charts?
<stochastic> or is that intended to be near the tour?
<ScottL> well...two things, i guess
<ScottL> the introduction isn't meant to be too broad or too specific, just like a 30 sec commercial on television and mention the highlights
<ScottL> i suppose it would mention
<ScottL> 1. fl/oss and based on ubuntu
<ScottL> 2. uses the powerfull and flexible jack as the sound server
<ScottL> 3. harneses the power of ardour
<ScottL> 4a.  maybe mention 200+ plugins
<ScottL> or
<ScottL> 4b. mention blender for 3d animations and video editing
<stochastic> combine 4a and 3
<ScottL> aye!  good call
<ScottL> and maybe mention inkscape for scalable vector graphics
<ScottL> but for each item i would not expect more than a short paragraph
<ScottL> and i thought an image would be nice to add to it
<ScottL> s/it/each page
<ScottL> kinda like you did for you loco presentation (which randall mentioned the other day)
<ScottL> at some point, stochastic, i would like get your input on the work flows and what we will do with the live dvd and ubiquity patch
<stochastic> Did you see that presentation?
<ScottL> i think you and i did a few things together on it and i think you sent me something to work off of
<stochastic> ahh yeah
<ScottL> i meant to mention that i liked what you did to the home page and the bottom tabs that are now circles
<ScottL> can we make the current a different color?
<stochastic> that's what I was about to suggest to knome, but he's on vacay
<stochastic> he has the admin access to the actual css and php code
<ScottL> ah
<stochastic> I've just been adding content and suggesting new ideas/critiques to knome
<stochastic> and re-arranging content organization
<ScottL> o
<ScottL> er
<stochastic> what kind of social integration of?
<ScottL> i'm trying to organize a "contribute to ubuntu studio development" wiki page
<stochastic> you've seen my post on the forums from forever ago right?
<ScottL> this way we can explain and link resources and point people there
<stochastic> I think it got pushed over to the wiki too
<ScottL> yes, i do remember it :)
<stochastic> it was fairly informal and slang
<ScottL> hehe
<ScottL> i'm just trying to give people actually tasks that they can choose and hopefully complete
<ScottL> this way we don't have to actively spend time helping people who might not actually do anything ;)
<stochastic> if you organize that into a static page, one of the tasks will have to be updating that page
<ScottL> and hopefully they get a sense of how involved some of that is
<ScottL> aye, that is true
<ScottL> but i wasn't going to put _everything_ we might do, just some important stuff
<ScottL> and clear it off when we get it completed
<stochastic> the page has built-in blog-able organization
<ScottL> but i concede that it will require updating however
<ScottL> stochastic, your page or the one i'm working on?  have you seen the page i'm working on?
<stochastic> link?
<ScottL> it's not nearly there, but here is the link:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ContributeToDevelopment
<ScottL> i _do_ have ideas, but i'm still not happy with them and playing with organization
<stochastic> ScottL, I think if we get used to blogging about something like being tracked on progress.ubuntu.com or about wanting to setup a LiveDVD or begin using ubiquity and the steps that will be needed along that path...
<stochastic> here: http://knome.fi/temp/ubuntustudio/wordpress/category/development/
<ScottL> that is very true
<stochastic> That's under the "article categories" on the new website's homepage
<ScottL> i was hoping to use the wiki as a static page to keep the content there though and make it easy for people to find all the infomration
<stochastic> both would be fine options
<ScottL> ooooh, i like that /development page though
<stochastic> both might be the best, particularly because the new site is not yet launched
<ScottL> can that feed the front page too like news?
<ScottL> oh, i should ask, _are_ we going to put news on the front page? or blog posts?
<ScottL> both holstein and i have talked about blogging more updates or news on the website
<ScottL> the website is slow for me, i don't know if it's the website or my connection at the hotel
<ScottL> oh, i should tell you too, holstein and i used etherpad last night to realtime brainstorm ideas and it was a great tool!
 * stochastic has played with etherpad in the past.  it's nice.
<ScottL> we were adding our ideas for development and organizing them together, it was actually kinda fun :)
<stochastic> Where do you think news should fit?  This should probably tie directly to a team discussion on our social borders for social integration for this site
<ScottL> stochastic, i'll commit to looking at the website this weekend in toto and doing what i can to update it and offer opinions as well
<stochastic> killer
<ScottL> i am very keen to get stuff knocked out aggressively and early to make this release as complete and awesome as i think it can be
<stochastic> I guess I take the label of leader on this website task, though if anyone else is a candidate I'll happily take them as leader.
<stochastic> I'll chat with knome about that
<ScottL> stochastic, let me ask you a question about the front page....
<stochastic> sure
<ScottL> do you think we are managing vertical space as well as we can?  and are we using all the "banner" area where we talk about audio,video, and graphics?
<ScottL> i admit that i am using a laptop monitor
<stochastic> I too am using a laptop monitor and think that area will be more detailed soon...
<ScottL> do you want to talk about work flows now, stochastic ?
<stochastic> sure
<ScottL> what we have been considering is to have perhaps a basic install by default, maybe no extra applications or perhaps a minimal set
<ScottL> but then use the ubiquity patch that edubuntu uses to allow the user to pick package sets during installation
<ScottL> very similar to what we were doing with tasksel
<ScottL> i'll find a link....
<stochastic> I like this concept
<ScottL> http://edubuntu.org/documentation/11.04/installation-guide#Edubuntu_Options_and_Partitioning_
<ScottL> if you look at the image on the right you can see the choices for edubuntu
<ScottL> i'm not sure about this part, but i think it might have to download the packages over ftp or whatever it does, perhaps aptget
<stochastic> ScottL, do you have a link for the code?
<ScottL> i'll find it...
<ScottL> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/edubuntu-live/natty/view/head:/livecd/ubiquity/plugins/edubuntu-packages.py
<ScottL> also there are some notes, i think i'm going to move this link and some notes to the blueprint
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/livedvd
<stochastic> sweet
<stochastic> ScottL, that link directly ties to natty, is there an updated code base for the newer release?  do we know if this code is still functional and used?
<ScottL> i believe it is current and still used, i used a link to what shnatsel provided in a google doc
<ScottL> therefore, i haven't actually checked launchpad to see if it is current
<ScottL> i spoke to the dev in IRC and at uds and he did not mention it is not current or active
<stochastic> cool
<stochastic> testing ubiquity bugs can be tricky
<stochastic> and very risky/hard to fix
<ScottL> stochastic, https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live
<ScottL> stephane (the dev) is very interested in us using it because he wants help maintaining it
<stochastic> that's the link you should put on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/livedvd
<stochastic> sharing helps
<ScottL> i will, i am updating it now
<stochastic> so stephane I'd love to talk with
<ScottL> he is a very nice guy, his irc nick is stgraber and he hangs out in #edubuntu
<stochastic> cool
<ScottL> stochastic, i have updated the livedvd as best as i currently can: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/livedvd
<ScottL> i spoke with steve langresk and colin watson today about it
<ScottL> colin agreed to be assigned a task directly, i also hope he gives it a sanity check as well ;)
<ScottL> would someone watch this:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/79252531/login_screen_v02_WP.mov
<ScottL> tell me if it has a picture of an outdoor shot with lots of grass and mountains in the back with a lake as well (i believe)
<ScottL> and there should be small, white dots in a graph pattern as well
<ScottL> sometimes the dots are not extremely visible due to some of the background image colors
<shnatsel> ScottL: no lake/mountains
<shnatsel> ScottL: only clouds and abstracts
<shnatsel> ScottL: the dots are there
<ScottL> that is disappointing, but thank you
<shnatsel> good idea for a login screen IMHO
<ScottL> there was a particular image that motivated me and i wanted to see it again
<shnatsel> in elementary we have http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/art/Desktop-Log-In-251559180 and I'm quite happy with it, too
<ScottL> going to breakfast
<madnick> hi
<madnick> ScottL: I saw you pasted some links about login screens, I am working on a generic greeter engine for Xubuntu, which will allow for anything to be implemented with little effort.
<madnick> For example, I implemented this: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/gspaceball/gspaceball-draft.ogg on top of my engine, however, I am currently working on a major redesign of the engine, as well as of the exposure interface.
<madnick> Reason I tell you this is because, it would be awesome if we could do something togheter
<astraljava> It would indeed.
<ScottL> hello :)
<ScottL> madnick, are you moving the paddle during that session or is it scripted that way?
<madnick> no, im playing it :)
<ScottL> it's pretty fantastic either way
<ScottL> madnick, and yes, it would be nice to do something together
<madnick> :)
<ScottL> i'm trying to find an image from one of the unity-greeter sessions that i really like and wanted to base on it for the lightdm theme as well as the wallpaper
<ScottL> i should have taken a picture while in the session but i now emailing to try to acquire it
<madnick> ah okay :) 
<madnick> Well, if you do find it, you could ping me if you like, and we could try to collab on this :P
<madnick> however, i suspect lightdm itself may change a fair bit before the release of 12.04
<ScottL> i will absolutely ping you if i get the image, i suppose i need to develop a backup if this doesn't work
<ScottL> and i don't know how much the lightdm backend will change, but the unity-greeter will change dramatically from what i've seen
<madnick> :) i suspect the unity greeter may depend more or less on Ubuntu specific features, last release it needed some gnome libs iirc
<ScottL> updated website spec with images:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/update-website-spec
<ScottL> i hope this moves us closer to a finalized home page
<ScottL> and comments are most certainly welcome!
<ScottL> logging for a bit
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-05
<ScottL> stochastic, are you around?
<ScottL> ailo, will you get helping development this cycle?
<ScottL> acmeinc1, astraljava , Daviey , rexbron :  anyone want to commit to helping development?  we have blueprints with tasks that needs people :-)
<acmeinc1> @scottL yes, I will
<ailo> ScottL, Wish I could say :/. I would like to, of course
<ailo> I can't say at this moment, but give me a month to decide
<ScottL> acmeinc1, i don't remember what you said you might be able to help with, is there anything in particular you want to do?
<ScottL> look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning
<ScottL> look at the 12.04 section and see if there is anything you want and think you can complete
<ScottL> ailo, okay
<acmeinc1> @scottl i can work any any of those, has anyone started the live dvd?
<acmeinc1> i was already working on the website, but that seems to behandled fine by others
<ScottL> acmeinc1, do you have experience with live dvd or seeds and such?
 * ScottL is finding the blueprint
<acmeinc1> ...and I know this, the lowlatency kernel on 11.04 does not work with xfce and compositing from my testing
<astraljava> ScottL: Yes, I'm in for this cycle.
<holstein> acmeinc1: COOL
<acmeinc1> no, i do not have exp with the live dvd
<holstein> ping me when you test like that if you dont mind
<holstein> i would like to be testing that kind of thing as well
<madnick> Under "theme/UI" no plymouth theme? 
<holstein> i dont think compositing is a deal breaker
<holstein> we have a plymouth theme right?
<holstein> from falk?
<madnick> oh :)
<ScottL> we have a plymouth theme already that works pretty neat
<ScottL> madnick, have you seen it lately?
<madnick> ScottL: sorry no, i just read through the list :)
<ScottL> madnick, is it still a pain to get plymouth themes working in vm?
<ScottL> or impossible?
<madnick> nope, it works nicely .. if you *dont* install VirtualBox drivers :P
<ScottL> ah, i couldn't get it working before but i didn't dig too far into it though
<ScottL> holstein, i worked up the last plymouth theme from something that cory sent me
<ScottL> and i did the first one too, which was pretty crappy
<holstein> as long as we have one alreayd
<holstein> already*
<ScottL> i've mentioned this before but it is worth repeating a bit and maybe summarizing
<ScottL> for the past several cycles we haven't really been included in much of the planning and accounting that ubuntu does for releases
<ScottL> with the new release manager (kate stewart)  in place, she is wanting to get a system of planning and accounting for each release
<holstein> yup, but do any of the derivitives get input?
<ScottL> aye
<holstein> i just kind of assumed thats the way it was
<holstein> cool :)
<ScottL> we submit blueprints, she approves some or all of them, then we get held accountable ;)
<ScottL> this is where she tracks it all:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/
<ScottL> within each blueprint we have a "work items" list formatted a certain way
<ScottL> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-lowlatency is an example
<ScottL> the responsible person is in brackets and the status is at the end
<ScottL> and the website will track it all
<ScottL> as we go back and mark work items as "DONE" it moves things down in the burn down chart
<ScottL> this is a good page that explain the status.ubuntu.com site for those interested:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/about.html
<ScottL> anyway, we need to agree on what we want to accomplish this cycle as a group
<ScottL> then assign responsible people to each tasks
<holstein> i like it :)
<ScottL> then start getting stuff done so we don't look bad :)
<ScottL> well, don't look bad and i don't get yelled at ;)
<holstein> i think if we keep the goals managable, will be fine
<ScottL> i will be gather the blueprints that are already made and cleaning up the formatting
<ScottL> and we need to consider the release planning page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning)
<ScottL> and make sure we think we can get what is primilinarily planned for precise
<ScottL> make new blueprints where necessary
<ScottL> lay out the tasks in the "whiteboard" area and then assign them
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> so, i would appreciate if people would review the release planning and consider if we can get it done or not
<ScottL> we should have a meeting soon to discuss it and finalize our release plan for precies
<ScottL> precise
<ScottL> then complete the blueprints and i'll email kate
<astraljava> Isn't there one this Sunday?
<ScottL> that sounds like a good plan if there isn't one scheduled already ;)
<ScottL> but i think you are correct astraljava :)
<ScottL> holstein, can you do me two favors?
<ScottL> hi falktx  :)
<ScottL> you have a minute?
<falktx> ScottL: sure
<ScottL> just a minute, falktx 
<ScottL> sorry
<holstein> ScottL: sure, i might be out for a bit... but i'll BBL
<ScottL> holstein, cool, okay now it's three things ;)
<ScottL> 1. mail the lists about a contributor meeting this sunday
<ScottL> 2. come up with some sane jack settings so we can get that in by default
<ScottL> 3. commit to testing the multi-head setup with me
<ScottL> i presume you will be using a laptop and one monitor
<ScottL> i'll do a two monitor setup with a desktop
<ScottL> we should probably document our results and procedures to get things working in the blueprint when we are done
<astraljava> What GPU do you have, ScottL? I can do similar with nVidia.
<ScottL> astraljava, one is onboard, another is nvidia i think (not sure on that one actually)
<astraljava> Ok.
<ScottL> but you are right, we should test multiple setups against available cards
<astraljava> If we get the live-dvd, then testing  becomes easier, and I can also do laptop + external display with both onboard intel plus additional ati card.
<falktx> didn't you guys know?
<falktx> I made a US 11.10 live-dvd
<falktx> (installable)
<falktx> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/KXStudio_10.04.3-LiveDVD_32bit.iso/download
<falktx> oops
<falktx> not that one
<falktx> this one -> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/UbuntuStudio-KR_11.10_32bit.iso/download
<falktx> ScottL: ^
<holstein> ScottL: i just tried it, and it was a fail.. dual head :/
<holstein> i need to RTFM a bit more
<holstein> i say for JACK... 512 frames/period, sample rate 44,100, and periods/buffer 3
<holstein> i'll work on the email for the list too ScottL :)
 * ScottL is on the phone with his wife right now and will be back in a minute or two
<holstein> i have several laptops to test dual head on, and can test on an nvidia desktop card
<falktx> holstein: I can say that is bad
<holstein> falktx: ?
<holstein> dual head on nvidia?
<falktx> the current settings I use per default for all kxstudio setups are 1024 frames/period, 44'100, 2 periods/buffer
<acmeinc1> fwiw i rock 512 as well
<holstein> thats fine too
<holstein> i mean, those are far from my settings
<falktx> holstein: 3 periods don't work for usb or hdmi
<holstein> but, we need something normal
<falktx> need to be 2
<holstein> something for an internal sound card user too
<holstein> something in between
<falktx> yep, that works finely afaik
<acmeinc1> yes, i have multiple different connectors and i've found the 512 works on everything
<acmeinc1> 2 periods as well
<holstein> how about 512/2 ?
<holstein> at 44.1?
<falktx> yes, can work too
<holstein> that was my first idea
<holstein> i went 3 to relax it a bit
<acmeinc1> that's what works with presonus products and a few usb mixers
<holstein> i can get the firepod do do 32/2 ;)
<holstein> but i usually dont run it that low
<holstein> OK... ScottL 512/2 and 44.1
<falktx> holstein: I agree, 512/2 44.1
<acmeinc1> i triple that :)
<holstein> whats that? around 40ms? or so?
<holstein> typically?
<acmeinc1> says 20ms on mine with those settings
<holstein> maybe 1040 then
<holstein> just like falktx has in KX
<holstein> thats 40?
<acmeinc1> 3 periods gives me 40ms fwiw, but yea any of those setting'll do
<falktx> 1024 you mean?
<holstein> lol
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> im thinking taxes ;)
<acmeinc1> im gonna check my usb mixer in a min to make sure it takes 1024
<ScottL> back :)
<ScottL> so what are the default settings we are advocating for jack?
<holstein> 1024/2 44.1
<holstein> or 512/2 44.1
<holstein> 512 gets us 20ms
<holstein> which might be low for some internal cards
<acmeinc1> i don't have access to my usb mixer computer atm, i can double check those tomorrow afternoon
<ScottL> holstein, by "internal cards" do you mean PCI cards or onboard audio?
<holstein> onboard
<holstein> but anything 'lame'
<ScottL> aye, i can test that with three machines this weekend
<holstein> ^^ that is opinion-based
<holstein> mostly
<holstein> ;)
<ScottL> we might also reevaluate these when the -lowlatency kernel is available ;)
<holstein> i cant run jack on one of my netbooks at 1024/2 even
<holstein> OH yeah
<ScottL> holstein, what if you used 1024/3 ?
<holstein> lets do 512/2
<ScottL> does that work on your notebook?
<holstein> ScottL: falktx says */3 is no-go
<holstein> ScottL: nah... but thats just one case
<holstein> everything else is fine
<ScottL> did he explain why */3 isn't good?
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> USB
<ScottL> OH
<holstein> something technical
<ScottL> yeah, good call
<ScottL> evaluating these options might let us select what hardware we are going to support though
<falktx> ScottL: yes, 3 period size is not good
<ScottL> for usb, falktx ?
<falktx> and since 2 works for internal soundcards anyway
<falktx> ScottL: yes, and hdmi too
<ScottL> hdmi?  there are audio cards with hdmi?
<holstein> yup
<ScottL> wicked
<falktx> my hdmi tv out as audio support, yes
<holstein> video cards with audio on hdmi
<ScottL> and usb3 will be coming someday soon too i hear
<ScottL> strangely, i have been told that firewire is "dying out"
<ScottL> supposedly because of usb
<ScottL> usb3
<ScottL> which i find strange because usb3 audio interfaces aren't really around yet
<holstein> we'll see
<holstein> apparently the desktop is 'dying out'
<holstein> and manners ;)
 * holstein is a geezer anyways
<ScottL> and firewire can handle the throughput and has better memory access for "memory copy"
<ScottL> where usb still has to go through the IO for everything
<ScottL> either way, i'll write down 512/2 for settings
<ScottL> and 44.1k is good, no?
<holstein> yup
<holstein> thats the standard
<holstein> no reason to do anything else as default
<ScottL> i used to do everything in 96k but after talking to ricardus for my song i used 44.1k and probably will keep doing that
<holstein> 88.2 wouldnt be bad
<holstein> a clean multiple of 44.1
<ScottL> i had heard that 96k allowed for better plug in expereience by not inducing some artefacts
<holstein> theres a good argument for that when dithering down
<ScottL> good night all, i hope to be back on tomorrow evening when i am at home
<ScottL> stochastic, take a look at the blueprint and the attached images, tell me what you think
<ScottL> i'll still give the website a go over this weekend :)
<stochastic> hey holstein are you around?
<holstein> stochastic: \o/
<holstein> whats up?
<stochastic> just wanted to touch base on what you are thinking for 12.04
<holstein> stochastic: sure
<holstein> im just thinking a few things actually
<holstein> site is top
<holstein> since it'll take a while, and be out of our control
<holstein> and we can be doing it now
<holstein> the kernel is important too
<holstein> i would like to put the old wallpaper in, and use that theme scottl mention
<holstein> greybird?
<holstein> something like that
<holstein> just one of the default icon themes
<holstein> something easy and quick
<holstein> and if someone gets around to changing those, then thats just extra gravvy
<holstein> and the live CD would be nice too
<holstein> stochastic: how about you?
<stochastic> well I'm right on track with what you're concerned with,
<holstein> cool
<stochastic> site is a top priority for me this cycle
<stochastic> kernel sounds like it has enough hands but come testing time....
<holstein> well, guys like me can test
<holstein> i dont mind doing that
<stochastic> The Ubiquity installer patch is something I plan on looking into
<stochastic> that ties directly into switching to a live DVD
<stochastic> just a heads up that from prior memories switching to Ubiquity can have a number of bugs that we need to trouble shoot
<holstein> stochastic: thats good to hear
<holstein> and, i could totally agree with pushing it out a cycle
<holstein> stochastic: what i dont want is to have a buggy installer for our LTS
<holstein> but, the current one has been buggy for me and others as well
<holstein> for the past few cycles
<stochastic> in general stability is something I think the entire team desires this release
<stochastic> holstein, I hope you'll help greatly with ironing out all kinks you come across and encouraging people you know to give alphas/betas a try
<holstein> yup
<holstein> i can do that... and help test
<holstein> its the heavy lifting i dont know much about
<holstein> i can get some folk to try the ISO's though
<stochastic> wonderful
<stochastic> what do you mean by 'heavy lifting'
<jasonmchristos> live installer is a bad idea
<jasonmchristos> not a great way to test performance from a slow usb key or cd rom
<jasonmchristos> will give people a false impression
<holstein> yeah, i disagree though
<holstein> i find that it runs pretty well live
<holstein> like avlinux, gnuguitarinux, the 64studio livecd, and puredynes live CD
<holstein> they all work pretty well live actually
<holstein> not as well as dynebolic did
<holstein> but, its a nice way to see if the hardware works with JACK
<holstein> otherwise, the only way to do that is installing
<ailo> There's no difference in performance from a live media
<ailo> Compared to a installed OS
<holstein> http://puredyne.org/ is a great example
<holstein> its not totally sparse either
<holstein> its a desktop-like experience
<holstein> JACK runs well though
<holstein> KXstudio too
<holstein> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Main_Page
<holstein> i mean, if you have first hand experience jasonmchristos , please share
<holstein> but, if you are thinking about that time you loaded kubuntu on the old P3 and had a hard time with it, thats not what my findings have been testing JACK in a live environment
<holstein> what i want is for folks to be able to try the hardware before they wipe and install and get frustrated with it
<jasonmchristos> rearanging the system to run from one hardware to ram completely changes performance
<jasonmchristos> not to mention with audio where its ram intensive
<jasonmchristos> loading things into ram from a usb key isnt a good measure of how it will run live
<ailo> jasonmchristos, It always runs from ram
<ailo> Applications are loaded into ram, and run from there
<ailo> The only difference between running from usb / CD / hard drive is loading time
<ailo> It takes longer time to load programs into ram from CD than it does from a hard drive
<holstein> sure, but whens the last time you tried it jasonmchristos ?
<holstein> falk has us a live CD built
<holstein> a live 11.10 ubuntustuio, so we can try it and see
<holstein> i personally used the 64studio live cd quite often
<holstein> i used to run the 64studio disc live on a laptop
<holstein> that would create synth sounds with very low latency (like 5ms)
<holstein> i would record those analog into my interface
<stochastic> Guys&|Girls I think the general idea behind a liveDVD install is less of a "here test this system out live before you install it" and more of a here's a GUI on which you can make sure things will run before you install it.  Also, the Ubiquity interface coupled with the liveDVD would provide just such a smooth installation experience for a new user in comparison to the current alternate installer.
<holstein> yeah... i was saying its more congruent with the main ubuntu install
<holstein> jasonmchristos: and i do want to encourage your input and welcome you here
<stochastic> hi jasonmchristos 
<holstein> but, if im explaining to you what latency is, you might want to take some time and try one of the live CD's with JACK on it
<jasonmchristos> hi stochastic 
<stochastic> jasonmchristos, are you interested in helping develop Ubuntu Studio or are you just stopping by to provide some input/feedback for us to think on?
<jasonmchristos> stochastic, how much does it pay ?
<stochastic> jasonmchristos, totally volunteer at this point
<stochastic> we all do it for the fun of building a great distro
<stochastic> we are always looking for more hands to make lighter work though
<jasonmchristos> going to have to pass if it doesnt pay enough for the hardware i would have to dedicate to it
<jasonmchristos> thanks for asking
<jasonmchristos> just giving input at this point
<stochastic> fair enough, thanks for the input, that helps too
<holstein> though educated input would be helpful as well... if you have time to try one of those live CD's i mentioned
<stochastic> jasonmchristos, out of curiosity, how long have you been using Ubuntu Studio and what do you think it's number one goal should be?
<holstein> see what you think
<jasonmchristos> I used it back a few releases ago and just installed 10.11
<jasonmchristos> The goal should be better documentation
<jasonmchristos> documentation is the end all of the user experience
<jasonmchristos> without knowing how to use something then its useless no matter how great it was designed
<jasonmchristos> something to explain what each setting is and does
<jasonmchristos> something on the cd
<jasonmchristos> not a wiki
<jasonmchristos> someting hard
<jasonmchristos> not something that jokesters come on and change everything
<holstein> wikis are what we have thought
<jasonmchristos> no wikis are no good
<holstein> thats the easy way for everyone to contribute
<holstein> right, but thats what we have
<holstein> that everyone can contribute to
<jasonmchristos> no one knows the design as well as the builder
<jasonmchristos> everyone desnt need to contribute
<stochastic> jasonmchristos, that does seem to be a short-term goal - totally a valid one where we do still need massive improvements - but if we only created a well documented distribution that had very little multimedia tools or improvements would you be satisfied?
<jasonmchristos> the builder has to have a helper explain in detail and articulate in the proper launguage to the end user
<holstein> sure, but 'the builder' wont contribute here... we have to paraphrase
<jasonmchristos> good doc writers are the number ONE priority
<holstein> and we = me and you
<holstein> and thats what we need, i agree
<holstein> better documentation
<holstein> we are working on a blog type area on the new site
<jasonmchristos> stochastic, i would be much more satisfied if the documentation on ho to use each app was detailed rather than having 1000 aps with no idea how to use them or get them to work together
<stochastic> okay
<jasonmchristos> there neds to be a link on the desktop to this articulate documentation 
<jasonmchristos> again not a wiki
<jasonmchristos> something that the docwriters write up
<jasonmchristos> and it needs to come in a package
<jasonmchristos> full documentation
<jasonmchristos> linked on the esktop
<jasonmchristos> desktop
<jasonmchristos> ok
<jasonmchristos> make it so
<stochastic> I like the idea of a desktop link
<stochastic> it has been suggested here before
<holstein> yeah, its linking to what though
<jasonmchristos> printable docs
<stochastic> would a simple launcher that executes firefox to point to the proper docs be appropriate?
<jasonmchristos> pdf or some other preformatted for printing
<holstein> wikis are unfortunately the place of choice
<holstein> so far
<jasonmchristos> no wikis are terrible
<holstein> thought i identify with your frustration
<jasonmchristos> if i hear wiki one more time...
<jasonmchristos> or someone says google it
<holstein> however, i dont need to print anything
<jasonmchristos> im gonna plode
<stochastic> can we leave the wiki conversation?
<jasonmchristos> wiki is as bad as google
<jasonmchristos> have to sift through garbage looking for a diamond of info that may not ever be there
<jasonmchristos> bad docs = time waste
<jasonmchristos> productivity should be priority
<jasonmchristos> this needs to be excellent docs
<jasonmchristos> with the option to print
<jasonmchristos> let me give you an exaple
<jasonmchristos> edora uses a wiki
 * stochastic would like to point out that almost any webpage is printable
<jasonmchristos> but i searched for hours to find that no where was the live ram option for live cd explained
<stochastic> I do understand that there's a difference between designed to print and printable though
<jasonmchristos> no one would ever know its even there to use
<holstein> cleaning them up is on the table though... thats something we are working on having contributors for
<jasonmchristos> stochastic, im saying such as a pdf or something
<jasonmchristos> not a wiki with ads
<jasonmchristos> and icons
<jasonmchristos> and signature spam
<holstein> and, when you find something like that that is frustrating, the ide is that you can fix it, since they are somewhat public editable
<holstein> idea*
<stochastic> yes, a professional documentation of the system would be a wonderful tool
<jasonmchristos> linked right on the desktop
<jasonmchristos> adio production might not be networked
<jasonmchristos> so has to be a full package
<jasonmchristos> even if in html format
<stochastic> trouble then brews when you look at the size of the team and the maintenance that the docs would take
<jasonmchristos> well thats going to make or break the user experience
<stochastic> it might be conceivable to do a LTS doc, but even then  the team is quite thin
<jasonmchristos> write me up a webpage for funding and i will do it
<jasonmchristos> but i cannot afford to do it for free
<stochastic> funding is a strange beast here with our ties to Canonical
<jasonmchristos> well tell them to put me on payroll
<stochastic> I've never looked into it but others have, never to return with concrete answers
<jasonmchristos> they are a real company
<stochastic> you'd have to chat with them about it
<jasonmchristos> im from the SHOW ME state
<jasonmchristos> show me the money!
<jasonmchristos> could get bones from kindle if its kindle format
<holstein> you can tell them
<jasonmchristos> cause people to install the kindle reader
<holstein> that would be great :)
<stochastic> thanks for the input on docs jason, I will pass your ideas on to the rest of the team, including our fearless leader Scott - who's quite active in the docs area
<stochastic> feel free to approach Canonical about funding for professional documentation and let us know where those talks progress to
<stochastic> if that could be worked out that'd be wonderful
<jasonmchristos> ok ill send them an email
<stochastic> furthermore, I'll try to make it a project of mine to make sure some kind of link from the desktop to documentation exists in the upcoming release.  I like that concept and others in the past have been on side with it as well.
<holstein> i was suggesting linking the IRC help to #ubuntu and/ore #ubuntu-beginners as well
<holstein> #ubuntustudio can be slow as we all know
<stochastic> holstein, you mean from the webpage links?
<holstein> like, when you start xchat or whatever is in ubuntu now
<holstein> i think it sends you right in #ubuntu right?
<stochastic> yes
<holstein> ubuntustudio goes to #ubuntustudio?
<stochastic> I don't recall that behaviour
<holstein> i was thinking that could be #ubuntu and #ubuntustudio
<holstein> or just #ubuntu even 
<holstein> from there you would be sent to ubuntustudio if needed
<stochastic> you may have done that in your personal settings of xchat
<stochastic> I'm pretty sure it still sends to #ubuntu
<holstein> but you wouldnt drop into a potentially dead channel with 5 peoplr in it
<holstein> stochastic: cool.. lets try and remember to confirm that
<holstein> just to be sure
<stochastic> yes
<stochastic> noted
<Kokito> howdy
<Kokito> anybody home? :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-11-06
<ScottL> hi Kokito 
<Kokito> hey ScottL !! How was UDS?
<ScottL> oh, everyone quits :/
<ailo> I wasn't able to boot into the -lowlatency available at aboganis ppa
<ailo> I'm recompiling my own kernel now
<ailo> Not that hard to do, really. Just takes some time
<ailo> Also, I suspect some of alessio's configs are out of date
<ailo> Compiling kernels take time :/
<Kokito> damn, lost connection and ScottL with it...
<jasonmchristos> ok heres the scoop
<jasonmchristos> 1lbs ground lamb
<jasonmchristos> 1 clove grown garlic
<jasonmchristos> mince the garlic by hand with a curved knife
<jasonmchristos> spice a cast iron pan
<jasonmchristos> oregeno oil extract
<jasonmchristos> warm
<jasonmchristos> add garlic to pan and a bit of lamb for lamb fat
<jasonmchristos> warm again
<jasonmchristos> rub oil into the poresof the iron
<jasonmchristos> now take the lamb
<jasonmchristos> sprinkle cavenders greek seasoning on the surface
<jasonmchristos> imitate if you have high blood pressure
<jasonmchristos> knead meat with fingers
<jasonmchristos> use rest of garlic knead in along ith
<jasonmchristos> with
<jasonmchristos> squeeze the meet between your knuckles
<jasonmchristos> turn pan up slap on pan cook til done
<jasonmchristos> save oil for dipping in pita bread
<jasonmchristos> eat in remembrance of Jesus Christ
<jasonmchristos> oops wrong channel
<ailo> I'm sure there's a lot of data to collect from testing kernels, but after recompiling and installing my own -lowlatency, compared to -generic, I don't even need to do any tests
<ailo> It's clear as day
<ailo> Been working for many hours now, and not a single xrun at 64 frames/period with firewire, while I had xruns with -generic at 1024 frames/period
<jasonmchristos> there you have it
<jasonmchristos> tell abogani 
<stochastic> hey knome, welcome back.
<knome> hey stochastic, thanks :)
<scott-upstairs> wanted mention that a meeting has been scheduled for today, in approximately five hours from now:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntu+Studio+Contributor+Meeting&iso=20110904T17
<scott-upstairs> here is a first pass meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4#preview
<scott-upstairs> wanted mention that a meeting has been scheduled for today, in approximately five hours from now:  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntu+Studio+Contributor+Meeting&iso=20110904T17
<scott-upstairs> here is a first pass meeting notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<astraljava> I suppose you meant: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntu+Studio+Contributor+Meeting&iso=20111106T17
<astraljava> And that's only 2 hours from _now_, since no DST anymore.
 * holstein cant be at the meeting today
<holstein> i did some dual-head testing though, in XFCE
<holstein> if someone has dual-head and would like to test/confirm... i plan on trying it with some other cards (like nvidia)
<holstein> the one im testing on now is a well supported intel card
<holstein> GridLock in #xubuntu suggested the package 'arandr' and that is working like a champ for me
<astraljava> Dual-head works for me in XFCE 11.10, but I need to use xrandr so that I get something else than cloned displays.
<holstein> astraljava: cool.. thats similar to my findings then
<holstein> you you mind to look at arandr?
<astraljava> I can check it tomorrow, I don't have that display here that I normally use.
<holstein> astraljava: what is xrandr part of?
<holstein> astraljava: yeah, no hurry
<astraljava> x11-xserver-utils: /usr/bin/xrandr
<holstein> OK
<holstein> i think arandr is just a GUI for that
<holstein> right now, im thinking it would be nice to include arandr, and label them in the menu properly
<holstein> otherwise, we have the current one from xfce for 'cloned'
<astraljava> Yeah. Might be a good idea. I remember the Display settings cannot be used to get that effect.
<holstein> if its just a matter of including a small package, why not right?
<astraljava> Yep.
<madnick> I tried this yesterday with ATI, oh the pain :) arandr works fine, if i first create a virtual display, but i ended up using ati-config + xinerama
<holstein> madnick: DATA!
<holstein> thats good to know
<astraljava> madnick: Good to know, we can document that.
<holstein> yeah, i mean, if something *can* work easily out of the box, thats great
<holstein> i think most folks know when their graphics cards are going to be a pain
<ScottL> good information about multi-head, i'll see about testing some later this afternoon too
<falktx> hm, it seems like I can't be present in this meeting (have to go in 30mins)
<falktx> ScottL: holstein: what is the irc channel for it? (so I can at least read backscroll when I get back)
<astraljava> This one.
<falktx> oh, ok
<astraljava> Oh no.
<falktx> oops
<astraljava> #ubuntu-meeting
<falktx> ok, I'm on it
<falktx> astraljava: thanks
<astraljava> At least the last time around.
<ScottL> yeah, so we can use the bot, right astraljava ?
<astraljava> No prob.
<astraljava> Yep.
<stochastic> ScottL, how long from now is the meeting? one hour or five minutes?
<scott-upstairs> stochastic, i'm sorry for the confusion, five minutes
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, would you mind handling the bot please?
<astraljava> Oops, lemme go find the commands.
<astraljava> Meeting logs from today's meeting can be found @ http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-06-17.00.moin.txt
<astraljava> I'll send them to the mailing lists as well.
<astraljava> shnatsel: Did you find the convenient time you talked about?
<shnatsel> astraljava: nope, failed to look it up on time
<astraljava> It's alright, if you can find it now, please let me know, I'm writing to the list about it as well while announcing the meeting logs.
<astraljava> shnatsel: Alright, well I'll send the mail now, you can join the thread then later.
<falktx> stupid network, I lost all meeting
<falktx> can someone point me to the log file?
<falktx> thanks
<astraljava> falktx: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-06-17.00.moin.txt
<falktx> astraljava: ok, thanks, I'll read all that soon
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, wow, meetingology bloody rocks!
<scott-upstairs> i've been reviewing the log from the meeting, it does a good job of it
<knome> hey scott-upstairs :)
<scott-upstairs> hi knome!  how are you doing?
<scott-upstairs> aren't you back early?
<knome> fine!
<knome> nope
<knome> the deadline was 24 hours and 45 mins ago
<scott-upstairs> did you see my updated website blueprint?  i think i'm started to get the _jena se qua_ of the website now
<knome> i did, briefly :)
<scott-upstairs> i had a helluvva good time at uds and now have lots and lots i want to get done :)
<knome> that's what happens after uds
<knome> don't burn yourself out
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Yeah, we have a lot to thank for Alan.
<knome> pope?
<scott-upstairs> knome, after an initial flurry of activity i want to focus on keeping others active
<astraljava> No, Bell.
<scott-upstairs> although i realize that there are many items that i have already committed as well
<knome> scott-upstairs, that's what i want to do with xubuntu too
<knome> scott-upstairs, we probably should really cooperate more
<scott-upstairs> knome, i agree
<scott-upstairs> the biggest concern i have about that is the lack of bodies from ubuntu studio
<scott-upstairs> well, and people who can really tackle some of these issues and get it done
<scott-upstairs> (myself included)
<knome> i don't think it's about bodycount ;)
<knome> it's more like, try to organize stuff together
<knome> even if we had our own projects
<knome> but try not to duplicate work, at least
<scott-upstairs> knome, well, i'm basically planning on stealing what xubuntu has done for the theme,UI, icon set
<scott-upstairs> is that collaborating?
<scott-upstairs> ;)
<scott-upstairs> although i have been trying to get falktx and madnick to work together on the lightdm stuff
<knome> in a way, yeah
<knome> we're working on something really cool, like an easter egg
<scott-upstairs> i had seen a really great image as a prototype of the lightdm i wanted to get as an example
<knome> a game for plymouth when you get the occasional disk check
<scott-upstairs> and i wanted to use it to base the lightdm and wallpaper on
<scott-upstairs> madnick showed me the game, that's bloody impressive
<knome> yeah ;)
<knome> the pacman game was a bit unresponsive though
<knome> we might go with something like mastermind
<madnick> i showed the lightdm game :)
<knome> ih
<knome> oh
<knome> ;)
<scott-upstairs> if i could get someone to email me back with that image i wanted a theme across the lightdm and wallpaper images, but i don't think it's going to happen :(
<scott-upstairs> i should have taken a bloody picture when i was in that session :/
<knome> you don't have the image anymore?
<knome> awwh
<knome> :)
<scott-upstairs> the basic thrust was that it incorporate the dot graph image that is pervasive these days, but done somewhat subtly
<scott-upstairs> in lighter parts of the image it was not visible, against the darker areas it was
<knome> hmmh
<knome> right
<knome> what was the image about then
<scott-upstairs> the image was a landscape, lots of green
<scott-upstairs> a lake on the bottom right with mountains in the back
<scott-upstairs> the graph looked like it almost faded from top left corner to the bottom right
<scott-upstairs> i was inspired to consider doing that to the ubuntu studio CoF as well, almost on a microscale
<scott-upstairs> so if our wallpaper was a graph that was visible top left and faded to bottom right
<scott-upstairs> our cof would be located in the bottom right
<madnick> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/79250654/login_screen_v02_WP.mov
<scott-upstairs> the cof would be graph top left and transition to normal at bottom right
<scott-upstairs> i am downloading that movie now
 * knome too
<scott-upstairs> i have seen another movie but i cannot tell that this is the same one or not yet
<madnick> sorry sorry, it is wrong, i found it in the design document
<madnick> but it is the wrong video, its supposed to be Ã"_long.mov"
<scott-upstairs> i emailed john.lea about it but i don't know that he will respond or not
<madnick> but that one is gone
<scott-upstairs> it's okay, it frees us up to work together
<scott-upstairs> i blelieve what i saw was only an image
<scott-upstairs> and it was only pulled up to explain a point during a discussion
<knome> probably
<scott-upstairs> i don't think it was intended to be included
<knome> shouldn't be too hard to do what you described thoug
<knome> +h
<scott-upstairs> knome, for some with graphic designing experience or skills it shouldn't be ;)
<scott-upstairs> but i have longed to have thematic qualities across lightdm, wallpaper, et al
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> of course
<scott-upstairs> getting someone artistically bent to help us would be nice and unfortunately those of which i am aware (canonical/ubuntu guys) obviously already have work to do ;)
<knome> i suppose i could help if there is nobody else showing up
<scott-upstairs> we should also talk to falktx when he is around as well, he has an artistic eye, if not somewhat dark
<knome> mmh
<knome> my eye is blueish
<scott-upstairs> i almost wouldn't mind an overall grey thematic quality, almost with greyscale images
<knome> :)
<scott-upstairs> http://ubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Ambiance+dark?content=132875
<scott-upstairs> i like this desktop, others do not and i will not force this upon them
<knome> dark themes have their problems
<scott-upstairs> i am partial to the greybird theme, i find it very easthically pleasing in it's elegance and simplicity
<scott-upstairs> practically perfect for what i think ubuntu studio should use
<scott-upstairs> now, if we could manage some art work that reflects this state
<scott-upstairs> a grey scale ubuntu studio cof might be nice
<knome> scott-upstairs, the same that is in the logo now?
<scott-upstairs> could be but doesn't have to be
<scott-upstairs> this is a migration for ubuntu studio, in my opinion
<scott-upstairs> a journey
<knome> if not, what are you thinking about then?
<scott-upstairs> knome, i don't have a definitive vision for it
<scott-upstairs> but i don't think we need to be beholden to what has been done
<scott-upstairs> i would like to nod to the past, but not repeat it
<knome> mmhmm
<scott-upstairs> knome, did you see the new start trek (2009)?
<scott-upstairs> star, not start
<scott-upstairs> are you also a fan of previous star trek's?
<knome> nope, i'm not really into scifi or fantasy :)
<scott-upstairs> ah, it's okay
<knome> heh, of COURSE it's okay ;)
<scott-upstairs> lol
<astraljava> No, not really. Get outta this channel.
<scott-upstairs> the new star trek is not just a remake of the previous star trek, it is a reboot
<scott-upstairs> basically, the new star trek ackowledged the previous star trek movies, but did not follow the same story
<scott-upstairs> it was a derivative rewrite of it
<knome> astraljava, get out of the #xubuntu channels ;)
<scott-upstairs> lol
<astraljava> Damnit.
<scott-upstairs> i would be very interested if someone would make something clever-clever for a new CoF that was new and fresh, while still acknowledging the old
<knome> scott-upstairs, i see
<scott-upstairs> but since i don't really ahve a crisp vision, i do not pursue at this time
<scott-upstairs> we (and i) have enough to do as it is
<astraljava> CoF?
<knome> circle of friends
<madnick> circle of friends
<astraljava> Ahh... ok.
<scott-upstairs> our cof is based on the concept of 'sound waves'
<scott-upstairs> i wouldn't mind playing off of that or change the colors or converting to grey scale
<scott-upstairs> or have it transition from full, solid shapes into the graph or doted lines
<scott-upstairs> ooh, ooh, ooh...here's something:  http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<scott-upstairs> look at the CoF in the background, top right
<knome> heh!
<scott-upstairs> what if the cof start top left as dots, then transitioned to how it is now?
<scott-upstairs> or something similar
<scott-upstairs> but if i had one goal, it would be to thematically tie in all our art with a single concept and i think the graph would be it to also tie in with ubuntu
<scott-upstairs> perhaps done subtly or different, not to look too derivative, but still there
<scott-upstairs> i also was made aware of design.ubuntu.com at uds
<scott-upstairs> so many new places to look and read and be inspired :)
<knome> isn't it quite new
<scott-upstairs> well, it's 'new' to me :P
<scott-upstairs> and i'm starting to use ubuntu monospace for my desktop as well
<knome> afaik it's objectively new
<madnick> it is a really great font
<micahg> scott-upstairs: let me know when you're ready to try some simple merges (after this week)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, defintely after this week ;)  i'm trying to get many things done after learning so much at uds :)
<scott-upstairs> micahg, but i am very interested in doing so
 * micahg sync'd blender last night
 * scott-upstairs really likes blender
 * knome wants to use /me too
<astraljava> sheep
<scott-upstairs> oops, wife is home, have to help with getting groceries inside
<knome> lol
<knome> good luck !!
<scott-upstairs> back
<scott-upstairs> working on several wiki pages and want to get many emails out tonight
<scott-upstairs> i'm probably geeking out on the emails, but i was really touched by the people i met at uds
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-29
<ailo> len-dt: Haven't heard of one for 12.10, but I'll ask about it. I'm sitting in a session with Ubuntu kernel devs right now
<ailo> I wouldn't mind suggestions on what to bring up during the US uds session.
<ailo> Someone on precise?
<ailo> We should test the -lowlatency update in the kernel team repo ppa:canonical-kernel-team/ppa
<ailo> I might be able tonight, or tomorrow
<astraljava> ailo: I can do, tonight when I get home.
<ailo> len-dt: Actually, if there's a lowlatency as proposed, then there aught to be a generic also
<ailo> I haven't followed closely on that procedure, but would believe it's standard procedure when making updates to the kernel
<knome> ailo, hey, you already around?
<ailo> knome: Yeah, where are you? I'm at the session about improving the wubi installer
<ailo> I'll be at the kernel config session next
<knome> ailo, i'm in the session about ubuntu dev videos with pleia2
<knome> not coming to the kernel session though ;)
<ailo> knome: We should meet up at lunch time. Any place we can meet?
<ailo> Maybe the exit from the session area (B)
<ailo> I wonder if anyone has invented "getting warmer" apps for smart phones yet
<knome> yeah, lunch sounds doable
<knome> let's fix the place later
<knome> ailo, you should join ##ubuntu-uds-nordic 
<ttoine> hi
<smartboyhw> scott-work, you gonna join that raring planning meeting remotely?
<smartboyhw> ailo, ping if you are here
<knome> smartboyhw, he's not there, he's here
<ailo> I'm here and there, and will be back again
<ailo> Reference to Bilbo
<smartboyhw> knome, ailo how are you guys enjoying UDS?
<ailo> smartboyhw: pong
<knome> smartboyhw, backache, but otherwise it's fine
<smartboyhw> knome, :D
<ailo> smartboyhw: It's fine. Just had lunch with knome and some other guys. Got some time with Andy from the kernel team. 
<smartboyhw> ailo, good. I'm participating remotely on the Raring planning session:D
<ailo> So, hopefully, by the end of the week, I'll be handling some of the kernel maintenance for lowlatency
<smartboyhw> ailo, good:D
<ailo> smartboyhw: Yea, let's see if anyone shows up :)
<smartboyhw> ailo, :)
<ailo> Valve is on now
<ailo> Gotta watch this
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i will try, but i cannot commit currently as work is a little crazy at the moment
<smartboyhw> scott-work, oh:(
<scott-work> i would expect steam to make a large announcement during UDS
<scott-work> i wonder what other big announcements would be made
<knome> ailo, i registered to the meeting now at least
<smartboyhw> I now register:P
<smartboyhw> ailo, something interesting
<smartboyhw> If you feel that your participation is required for this topic, please contact or Kaj Ailomaa, otherwise, please select one of the options above.
<smartboyhw> What does that mean?
<micahg_mobile> Valve presentation at the moment in the plenary
<len-dt> smartboyhw, have you thought any more about the text plymouth?
<knome> smartboyhw, if person X is marked as "required" to two or more sessions, the scheduler will do it's best to avoid scheduling those sessions parallel.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, nothing 
<smartboyhw> knome, ah
<len-dt> smartboyhw, just wondering if you want me to take your update as is or change it.
<smartboyhw> len-dt, change it to no version then
<len-dt> smartboyhw, do you feel that is right or just giving in... or busy :)
<smartboyhw> len-dt, giving in:P
<ailo> smartboyhw: No one's particion will be essential, unless someone comes up with a reason for that, so it's enought just to participate
<smartboyhw> ailo, did:P
<ailo> scott-work: No big announcement from Valve. Just some info we already knew more or less. And - we all get a beta key to the Linux steam client.
<ailo> Not sure what he said about the beta key, so I need to ask someone later about that
<ailo> Something about launchpad users, or perhaps only UDS...
<knome> probably uds only
<knome> i'm shutting the laptop now
<knome> see you
<smartboyhw> bye knome 
<smartboyhw> ailo, I now see two people in the B3-M1 hangout. Which one are you?
<smartboyhw> Actually I see a lot of people in there now:P
<smartboyhw> Ah forget about it
<smartboyhw> ailo, better question: Which session are you in now?
<ailo> smartboyhw: I'm not in that one
<ailo> b3-m5
<jta> good morning holstein and ailo 
<ailo> jta: Greetings from Copenhagen
<jta> : )
<ailo> About uploading apps to Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppDevUploadProcess
<jta> k, i will put that in my project dev notes file
<ailo> jta: That's under development. Being discussed in the Ubuntu Developer Summit right now
<jta> ahhh, ok...
<ailo> jta: I think the best way to upload is still to upload to debian
<ailo> And make changes there
<smartboyhw> Hello jta :D
<jta> like we discussed, I will share the workflow ideas with you guys as I go
<jta> hey smartboyhw 
<jta> ailo: well i will be relying on you guys to guide me, I like being a team player
<ailo> The Ubuntu App upload process is a way to get apps into Software Center. It's a form of Mac
<ailo> Sorry
<jta> i am only a loner when it's required to get things done
<ailo> It's a form of app store thing, for all sorts of devices
<smartboyhw> jta, one word: Welcome!
<jta> smartboyhw: ty
<jta> i was here a few years ago, I am finally picking back up on the project, it feels good to be back
<smartboyhw> jta, oh:D
<ailo> jta: I think we should just find a way to make use of your expertise in the best way
<jta> ailo agreed
<ailo> jta: Most of us have zero knowledge of professional graphic and video production
 * jta does not want to duplicate work or reinvent the wheel
<ailo> During this cycle, I think we'll be reorganizing a bit. Creating dev docs. 
<jta> ailo well the good thing is I am also an audio engineer...there are not many crossovers like me that do both professionally
<smartboyhw> and user docs, and testing docs
<jta> maybe one out of 20 in my field can even do both at a basic level
<smartboyhw> jta, two things we are gonna focus on this cycle: docs and dev
<jta> k smartboyhw 
<ailo> jta: Maybe a good place would be just to start with what is missing from Ubuntu Studio for anything
<jta> I will need to assess the current state of visual apps in the distro anyways, I might be able to provide some straight forward workflow docs
 * jta nods at ailo
<ailo> jta: Did you check about your launchpad account?
<ailo> jta: I could point you to the right places right away
<jta> it's on my list...my priority this morning is just saying hello and doing my work scheduling...I will be able to do more as the week progresses
<ailo> jta: The way we work now is we have blueprints for everything we're going to do during the cycle. This is a list of them for Raring https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/RaringBlueprintsCategories
<ailo> jta: You'd only need to focus on a few
<ailo> jta: Workflows, especially video and graphics, but of course you could do more if you want
<jta> k
<ailo> jta: Workflows means selecting applications, tweaking builds, etc
 * jta has had his headphones on for 10 minutes...it's probably time to turn on some music, lol...
<ailo> jta: Also, under Documentation there are the workflows
<ailo> jta: User docs, that is
<jta> k, i'll check it out
<ailo> jta: Since we don't have anyone else much working on video and graphics workflows, you'd be making your own lists of work items (with feedback from the team of course)
<ailo> The important part is creating the workitems, so that we can see what needs to be done
<jta> that's the same as it was before
<ailo> Eventually, we can get more people working on the items
<jta> sounds good, there will be some dependency issues we will need to resolve
<jta> of course
<jta> I am big on framework, so anybody should be able to jump right in and work with me...i usually don't hack things together and I document as I go
<ailo> jta: The workitems under each blueprint help informing everyone of what is going on, like here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-audio
<ailo> jta: If you try Ubuntu Studio 12.10, maybe you'll find a lot of things missing from it. All you need to do is write up a list of workitems like those in the link
<ailo> Then we know what needs to be done
<jta> k
<ailo> jta: You're of course free to use any additional means of documentation, but if you like to keep things easy, listing workitems already does a lot
<ailo> I think for cooperation, docs become really important
 * jta nods
<ailo> After a workitem has been listed, people might have opinions. In that situation, a discussion arrives, and a solution is found at the end. If no one has opinions, all you need to do is implement the work item
<ailo> I'm going to suggest some kinf of procedure for this later. One which means at least one person will be giving feedback on every change to Ubuntu Studio
<ailo> Also giving every dev much freedom at the same time
<ailo> While it is good to have democracy about everything, it is also helpful to be able to work independently
<jta> lol...I have a short in my headphones cord and when I turn my head it has a flanging effect...that's very strange
<ailo> Would pinta be useful for anything? http://pinta-project.com/
<jta> if you have the nina and santa maria also then you have a discovery fleet? ; )
<ailo> Question is, what is there to discover?
<scott-work> hi jta, i look forward to hearing your input on the work flows
<jta> new workflows?
<jta> lol...
<jta> ty, scott-work ...I am in need of a good live distro to give people I am working with so this project has recently become a priority again...good to be back
<jta> just a big picture note, I work live events so my priority personally is speed, but the people I am sharing the distro are studio workers, so it's the other side of the coin
<scott-work> jta: ah, that was slightly confusing at first. when you mentioned "live" distro i thought you meant a distro that could be run from a "live DVD" (i.e. load dvd, reboot computer, run OS from DVD)
<scott-work> jta: but i believe you mean a distro that can function well during a live performance (i.e. lowlatency, speed)
<jta> yes, I mean live CD/DVD...but I also use linux in a live environment, so I mean both : )
<jta> I am encouraging others to try linux...and then assisting them with install fests if they want to install
<jta> scott-work: so it would be a "look at this" for the live distro for others...I will be installing it for live production myself...so again, it's both sides of the coin
<ailo> jta: I guess both have the same prerequisite: it needs to perform well and include the apps you need. Question is, how many usecases can we not cover at all, if any?
<ailo> I'd like to work from the perspective that you can use the live iso for every concievable multimedia workflow that is supported on Ubuntu
<jta> ailo how is the settings to USB feature working out so far?  that would be an important component for the distro to be used beyond just trying it out
<ailo> jta: USB feature?
<ailo> You can create a live usb stick using unetbootin, and the like
<shnatsel> ailo: real-time music production requires a semi-official Ubuntu flavor, Ubuntu Studio; other multimedia workflows should be fine
<shnatsel> oops
<shnatsel> wrong channel XD
<shnatsel> sorry
<ailo> I thought that was an interesting remark, one that we probably are aware of.
<ailo> Just that, now, we'd like Ubuntu Studio to become a bit more for non audio people than just Ubuntu with a few graphic and video apps
<jta> ailo, yes, the live usb stick is fine...but some still want a CD/DVD that will write settings to USB...not necessarily a bootable USB distro
<ailo> jta: Ok, so you want persistent user settings
<jta> yes..but there are variations on that themes...some will let you install on the usb to add packages...some mount it as home...stuff like that...
<ailo> I've never looked into how that happens. Puredyne used a script to generate a live USB stick like that
<jta> I don't know what the SOTA is for that with Ubuntu, my info is like two years old
<jta> yes, I have used puredyne
<ailo> I guess the least we could do is to provide a script like the one Puredyne used.
<jta> it's not necessary at this point but it is part of the workflow I had previously
<ailo> Someone would need to code it. I'll add it as a workitem to the ISO blueprint
<jta> I will give you guys an outline on my typical live workflow, that way I don't "nickle and dime" you with ideas
<jta> the bottom line is I use a lot of computers from rental places and clients so I frequently take them over with a live distro, i can use up to 6 computers for one event
<jta> but that's just my use in live media production, not necessarily the people I am sharing the distro with
<jta> since graphics is my #1 job and audio #2, I use blender because of ease of installation and deleting it
<ailo> jta: What kind of events are they? What are you using blender for?
<jta> corporate events...general sessions so it's motion graphics, like in powerpoint on steroids as I call it
<jta> so I take plain powerpoints and make them more hollywood type
<ailo> jta: What of it is live? I'm assuming either user controlled sequencing (simple case: flipping slides), or things like cameras adding to the generated video
<ailo> jta: Paging. Not flipping :)
<scott-work> jta: do you use blender for video editing as well?
<contrapunctus> jta, ailo, is puredyne based on anything? (like Ubuntu, or Debian)
<ailo> contrapunctus: puredyne 910 was based on Ubuntu 9.10
<ailo> contrapunctus: puredyne used XFCE and was geared towards live audio
<scott-work> but there was also the other -dyne that was based on something else, no?
<jta> ailo, yes, I started with blender in live events using it as a video editor and in assembling still frame sequences
<ailo> The earlier -dyne was Debian based
<ailo> There might be another -dyne based on Debian in the future. Not a lot of activity right now
<ailo> Gotta go. bbl
<scott-work> dyne-bolic is what i'm thinking about
<scott-work> hi micahg_mobile, how is UDS going so far?
<micahg_mobile> Good
<contrapunctus> Hm, I see...Thanks, ailo.
<ttoine> who is at the UDS this time ?
<knome> ailo is, and me and micahg_mobile are here too
<ttoine> yeah. invited by canonical ?
<knome> micahg_mobile works for canonical, me and ailo are sponsored :)
<ttoine> great
<ttoine> I had this chance in november 2006 ;-)
<knome> mmh, this is my second one, first one was in 2008
<ttoine> I saw that scott and kaj are working on the doc ?
<contrapunctus> Folks...might be unrelated, but...is there any IRC channel which Linux GAME devs frequent?
<jta> linux?  Hmmm, blender it's #gameblender ...linux in general i don't know
<scott-work> ttoine: others are working as well, i think, did you want to help or have something to add?
<contrapunctus> Thanks jta ^^
<contrapunctus> I hope to do music for Linux games :D
<jta> contrapunctus: yw
<ailo> btw, I met persia
<ailo> Long time no see
<ttoine> scott-work: I checked your blueprints. I will take some time this week to see more in details.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-30
<stochastic> Is Ubuntu Studio getting involved in the Movember campaign at all?
<ailo-uds> Seems like my server crapped out at home
<ailo-uds> I'm at a session about automated tests
<ailo-uds> UTAH
<contrapunctus> O_o
<ailo-uds> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting
<ailo-uds> falktx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppDevUploadProcess
<micahg> FYI, that process won't allow those packages to be used on UbuntuStudio images
<falktx> it's a nice read
<falktx> ailo-uds: are you at uds now, i suppose?
<falktx> ailo-uds: are you at uds now, i suppose?
<ailo-uds> falktx: yep
<falktx> ah, cool
<falktx> ailo-uds: i read the wiki page, nice stuff in there
<falktx> ailo-uds: that is just a plan for now, right?
<falktx> ie, it's doesn't work that way just yet
<ailo-uds> falktx: Seems like work in progress, to make it easier for people to add apps to Software Center
<ailo-uds> falktx: Since they are going towards mobile phones, etc, they need that kind of framework
<ailo-uds> falktx: I still think pushing to Debian is the best way for desktop software
<micahg_mobile> Yeah, these apps will be very restricted in what they can do
<ailo-uds> Tip for anyone wanting to reinitialize group membership without logging out and in again: newgrp
<ailo-uds> Only, it doesn't seem to work as expected
<smartboyhw> len-dt, you actually merged the Ubuntu Studio"13.04" plymouth text theme code? I am surprised:P
<len-dt> smartboyhw, not a big deal either way. I could think of some things where it may be useful.
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> stochastic, what November campaign that you talked before?
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Movember. Bit different. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, what is it then?:P
<smartboyhw> hi scott-work 
<astraljava> smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movember
<smartboyhw> astraljava, good I don't have a moustache;P
<knome> astraljava, you going to have a movember?
<astraljava> Nah.
<knome> bah.
<smartboyhw> So no for me
<smartboyhw> knome, how is your backache?
<smartboyhw> Better?
<knome> it's there.
<scott-work> hi smartboyhw and everyone
<knome> hey scott
<knome> scott-work, too bad you aren't around here
<scott-work> hi knome , yeah, i'm wishing i was there too
<scott-work> btw knome, i think xubuntu 12.10 looks really good, is this due to xfce 4.10?
<scott-work> Len-nb: ailo, astraljava , micah, smartboyhw - i should also note that i think ubuntu studio really looks good this cycle as well, quite a large leap from 12.04 in my opinion
<smartboyhw> scott-work, :D
<knome> scott-work, i don't think xfce 4.10 has much to do with the looks
<knome> scott-work, mostly some smallish user experience things
<knome> scott-work, but thanks :)
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yay finally got my first code merged into a Ubuntu Studio code branch:D
 * smartboyhw wonders where is aiLO
<contrapunctus> smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> micahg, having a great time at UDS heh?
<contrapunctus> How do you do that? O_o
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, what do you mean, how do you do that?
<contrapunctus> 'action' lines.
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, you mean the action items on blueprints?
 * len-dt is off to work
<smartboyhw> bye len-dt 
<contrapunctus> I mean this - * smartboyhw wonders where is aiLO
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, I do like "/me wonders where is ailo"
<contrapunctus> (probably the most asked question on IRC channels)
<smartboyhw> That shows up that message
 * smartboyhw = the user
 * contrapunctus wonders if it's working.
<contrapunctus> Aw yes.
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, yes
<contrapunctus> Thanks sbhw.
<smartboyhw> Hey ailo-uds how is uds?
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: Pretty ok. I was glad I went to the UTAH session
<ailo-uds> As I understand it, we can write tests, and submit them to Ubuntu labs, and they will perform them
<ailo-uds> Would be perfect for us. 
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, good. Then I think you can write the tests for us:P
<ailo-uds> Those tests would be about performance mostly though. Not user/desktop testing, which we will need to keep doing
<ailo-uds> I've already been working on developing tests. This way I only need to think about what to test. Not how to code it
<ailo-uds> Saves a lot of time
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, :D
<ailo-uds> Also, performing the tests needs setting up machines, which at least takes a day or two. 
<ailo-uds> So, that is also something you'd want to skip
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, :D
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, btw can you draw up a list of what we are gonna talk about in that planning session on Thursday?
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: I will, don't worry
<scott-work> smartboyhw: that is a cool feeling
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: I need to think about that. In the meanwhile, ideas are welcome
<scott-work> ailo-uds: i was telling everyone that i thought ubuntu studio 12.10 looks quite a bit better than 12.10
<smartboyhw> Wow wow wow suddenlt you all send messages to me
<smartboyhw> Wait
<smartboyhw> scott-work, you should:P
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, yay:D
<ailo-uds> scott-work: Yea, it looks ok. It's a good time in many aspects. I just can't get over the problems with qjackctl and jackd. In retrospect, we should have handled that. Right now, I'm focused on other things, but I won't want that to happen to next release also
<ailo-uds> Better to disable something, if it's not working well, than to ship something that crashes on you
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, scott-work astraljava len-dt holstein yay we can now decide whether we want to have Alpha and Beta 1 releases
<holstein> what do we have now? just testing til launch?
<smartboyhw> holstein, no. 1 beta, then rc, then launch time
<holstein> i like what we have
<smartboyhw> We can decide. Maybe 2 betas, then 1 rc
<holstein> i dont think we should add anything
<ailo-uds> Ubuntu is changing their routine
<smartboyhw> Or 2 Alpha, 2 betas, 1 rc
<smartboyhw> holstein, that is not ADD that is REMOVING milestones
<holstein> 1 beta, 1 rc, and release... 
<smartboyhw> That is great I think, should be discussed in the raring planning session on uds.
<holstein> 2betas implies to me that addes a milestone
<smartboyhw> holstein, yes
<holstein> i dont care though... whatever you guys need/decide
<holstein> i just dont want to add things if we dont need to
<smartboyhw> Possibly scott-work's opinion is needed the most
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, what is your option?
<smartboyhw> Let me set up a vote for that
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: I think it is too early to decide on this now, as not everyone even knows what is happening yet
<micahg> smartboyhw: ubuntustudio-look is maintained in the ubuntustudio branch
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, oh :P
<micahg> smartboyhw: and I thought that it was decided not to do what you just did
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, can you help to ask the experts what is happening :P
<smartboyhw> micahg, oh ok
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: There's no hurry. We don't need to decide anything this week even. Let's just get informed first. We need to find out what will happen, what we can do, etc
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, from what I heard from a Canonical employee is that there will only be a beta and a release candidate for vanilla Ubuntu, and that flavors can decide how many betas and alphas (if applicable) they want
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: I've heard about the new release schedule also. What we could do is read more about it, and post about it on the list, and ask for opinions
<micahg> the milestones that there will be is still up for discussion, but all flavors (Ubuntu included) can decide to participate or not
<smartboyhw> We can also do cadence testing instead
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: Perhaps you could take the initiative on finding more out about the release schedule, and posting about it on the mail list. 
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, did:P
<ailo-uds> This way we will all get to learn more about it, and can discuss what we should do. I personally have no idea about what would be best atm
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, OK
<scott-work> to be honest, my first reaction is to align our testing schedule with whatever ubuntu is using, having the same cadence certainly has benefits
<knome> yup
<scott-work> of course, that doesn't mean we _have_ to have the same schedule. having a different testing schedule might address particular issues for us
<holstein> if we have to hustle and do official tests for each milestone, that could be problematic
<knome> only if you plan to break something and need a freeze that is longer than one day ;9
<ailo-uds> I suggested here at uds to create a unified team between flavors for developing docs, and keeping it at the same place.
<ailo-uds> Since we do more or less exactly the same type of tasks, would be good to save energy this way
<knome> that sounds good, but i'm not sure if xubuntu, for example, would have the workforce to do that
<ailo-uds> I'm not worried about if everyone will participate in creating docs. Just that if the docs would be helpful for everyone. I can imagine do a bit of work for this. 
<ailo-uds> Feedback would be just as important as writing docs
<ailo-uds> If none of the flavors care, of course, that would not be great
<knome> mmh
<ttoine> scott-work, I was looking for the blueprints, can someone give a link where I can look at them and edit them ?
<ttoine> oh, and of course, Hi everybody !
<ailo-uds> ttoine: I posted a couple of emails about that
<ttoine> is Kaj on irc sometimes ?
<ailo-uds> let's see..
<ailo-uds> ttoine: That's me
<ailo-uds> hi
<ttoine> ailo-uds, I saw a lot of emails, but no link...
<ailo-uds> ttoine: I posted the link many times :). There's an overview at the wiki for all the blueprints here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/RaringBlueprintsCategories.
<ttoine> ailo-uds, you are kaj ? great to know that ;-)
<ailo-uds> ttoine: If you click the links on that page, you get to each blueprint
<ttoine> ailo-uds, ok. it is not listed (or maybe I missed it) on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio page
<ailo-uds> ttoine: The wiki frontpage we will need to rework a bit, but if you follow the Team Resources link, you get to blueprints that way
<ailo-uds> I'll be wanting to change the wiki so it's more developer orientated
<ailo-uds> Less user related links on the front page, and quicker access to dev pages
<ailo-uds> ttoine: I assume you are going to participate in creating blueprints? :)
<ttoine> ailo-uds, yes, that's the aim
<ailo-uds> ttoine: Which areas do you think you will be interested in?
<ttoine> ailo-uds, for public relation, may I suggest that we use mainly the wordpress news possibilities. and then, use Twitter Feed for automatic post to Facebook and Twitter ? It would save a lot of time
<ttoine> ailo-uds, I can work on user documentation, mainly audio and publishing. I know a linux video producer and will do my best to have contributions from him
<ttoine> programming etc is not my stuff
<ailo-uds> ttoine: One of the things I personally am trying to achieve is to try make suggestions as public as possible, so either post about it on the mail list (which is very good, if you know people will want to discuss it), or just make a blueprint about it,.
<ailo-uds> ttoine: On public relations, I think this will depend on who will be interested in making and posting news
<ailo-uds> ttoine: If someone is very active, I wouldn't mind seeing news all over the place
<ailo-uds> ttoine: If we don't have someone active, I think your suggestion is very good
<ailo-uds> That's just my opinion
<ailo-uds> ttoine: Sounds great about docs. I hope you won't mind me having opinions about docs, since I'm doc lead. I might do nothing, or I might want to reedit. I'll always discuss things with you first
<ttoine> ailo-uds, the aim with public relation would not be to post everyday. But post once or twice a month would be great
<ttoine> it would show that we are active
<ttoine> and so we could create a community of followers on twitter, facebook etc...
<ailo-uds> ttoine: I definately agree that we should post at least a few times a cycle, but wouldn't mind several posts a week either, if someone wants to do it
<ttoine> I think i can handle the public relation part, I do that in my job
<ailo-uds> The content of the news would depend entirely on how much energy goes into it. The more energy, the broader the content
<ttoine> ailo-uds, there are different kind of posts. for example, the distro relative post, of course, are not very often
<ailo-uds> We should create a public relations team
<ttoine> but for example, if a major application is updated, it could be good to communicate a PPA, etc..
<ailo-uds> I think so far, we have ttoine, holstein and smartboy as candidates for that team
<ttoine> ailo-uds, we can use too the editor / author roles of wordpress
<ttoine> so maybe let some people suggests posts.
<ailo-uds> We need to see about adding users with posting privileges to the website. knome Do you know anything about that?
<ailo-uds> ttoine: I think for the content of news, there can be a lot of creativity. We can link to blogs that other people have written about Ubuntu Studio, or just multimedia on Linux in general. 
<knome> ailo-uds, yes. can we get to that after the sessions?
<ttoine> ailo-uds, just to understand, there are 3 places to edit stuff about blueprints : whiteboard, work items, and of course, the relative wiki page. First point, if I want to start a documentation, what is the best to do ? And second point, if I want to add a suggestion (eg: twitterfeed), where should I put it ?
<ailo-uds> knome: Absolutely, thanks
<knome> np
<ttoine> ailo-uds, we could display all #ubuntustudio on twitter on the website, too
<ttoine> oh sorry, I was thinking you have some time now.
<ailo-uds> ttoine: There is no longer a wiki space for adding blueprints. If you know an workitem you want to add, add it to workitem. If you are just thinking out loud, you can use the whiteboard
<ttoine> ok
<ailo-uds> I have time, but I'm also sitting at a session :).
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/263312157784035328
<ttoine> ailo-uds, wich email adress can I use to create a twitter account ?
<ttoine> or maybe knome or scott-work can tell me ?
<ailo-uds> ttoine: For UbuntuStudio? Maybe let scott-work create one? Would be good also to think about how to coordinate the channels, so that many people can post, if needed
<knome> i don't think twitter supports multiple email accounts
<knome> just use one and be ready to share the account password
<knome> that's what we did for xubuntu
<ailo-uds> Some channels could just be used as forwarding channels
<ailo-uds> You do one post, and it ends up in multiple places
<ttoine> ailo-uds, that's why I would like us to have a Twitter account : to send the rss feed of ubuntustudio.org on it
<ailo-uds> ttoine: If you like, you could make up some plan on how to coordinate everything. We have facebook and g+ already set up (g+ seems difficult to use in comb). And we have the website
<ailo-uds> They don't all support the same kind of posts
<knome> if you want wordpress to send the posts to twitter, you will need to get ahold of IS to get a plugin installed.
<ttoine> knome, not at all
<ttoine> it is possible to share the rss through twitter and facebook, and Linkedin with twitterfeed
<ttoine> For facebook, you just need to add me to the admin of the ubuntu studi page
<ttoine> for twitter, it seems that there is already a @ubuntustudio account... 
<knome> is that active?
<ttoine> no
<ttoine> but is it not possible to use the account
<ailo-uds> Doesn't seem to be someone we know
<ttoine> and I can find it on twitter...
<ttoine> https://twitter.com/ubuntustudio
<ttoine> I send a mail to twitter admins to try to get it for us
<ailo-uds> We could just use another name, like ubuntu-studio. The important thing is we put up a list of "official" accounts on the website, once we have this all sorted out
<ailo-uds> ttoine: Ah, great
<ttoine> is ubuntu studio a registered trade mark? maybe by canonical ?
<ailo-uds> scott-work: ^
<knome> most probably is
<ttoine> I think that if we are not allowed to sell ubuntu studio t-shirts... it is pretty sure
<knome> ttoine, you can actually sell, but you can't make any money out of it.
<ttoine> ailo-uds, knome if you are at the uds, you may find someone of the marketing / brands / managment ?
<ailo-uds> ttoine: We got a tip on who to email about it. If scott-work doesn't know, we should probably find out :)
<ailo-uds> scott-work: I got a message now saying that Ubuntu Studio is not a registered trademark.
<ailo-uds> ttoine: ^
<knome> ...in united kingdom
<ailo-uds> knome: The guy next to me just checked US too
<knome> ok :)
<knome> but the ubuntu part is trademarked, so...
<knome> :)
<ailo-uds> Yeah, how does that work? Ubuntu is a word though, so not like a name
<knome> no idea
<ttoine> I will try to manage that
<ttoine> first of all i will contact the owner of @ubuntustudio
<knome> ttoine, if the account is active, twitter can delete it for you
<knome> ttoine, we did that with @Xubuntu
<ttoine> and then contact twitter to see if as a community name, we can ask to get the name
<knome> ttoine, (we used to be @XubuntuLinux)
<ttoine> knome, great. how did you do that ?
<knome> ttoine, you should ask pleia2, she handled that
<knome> i don't think twitter has a hard policy on not allowing to reigster names that are not trademarked for "you" unless it's something like @microsoft
<knome> anyway, i think you might need a *good* reason to delete an account that is not yours
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> knome, for xubuntu, you have some email@xubuntu.org email address 
<ttoine> ?
<knome> ttoine, nope
<ttoine> ok
<knome> ttoine, just the ubuntu.com addresses for normal ubuntu members
<knome> i think we ould look into it though
<ttoine> I don't have an @ubuntu.com email address...
<knome> ttoine, are you a ubuntu member?
<ttoine> knome, how I know that ?
<knome> ttoine, do you have the ubuntu irc cloak? :P
<knome> ttoine, if you don't know, you most probably aren't
<knome> you specifically need to apply to be one and be accepted
<ttoine> and how I do that ?
<knome> ttoine, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<ttoine> the other problem is that there is no physical address for Ubuntu Studio
<scott-work> ailo - yes, i believe all derivatives of ubuntu currently used are trademarked
<scott-work> oh, i see that ailo said someone checked at it was not
<knome> yeah
<scott-work> i have an email from someone at canonical (marianna i thought) that said it was....checking
<knome> mmh, right
<knome> if that's marianna raffaele, i'm most certain she's here and ailo can get a hold of her
<knome> i mean, not literally...
<scott-work> oh, well. i'll search again for the email later
<scott-work> i had asked about selling merchandise to support development and was basically told "no" but in a very roundabout, circuitous way
<scott-work> knome: can't we control website access via a launchpad team?
<scott-work> ..
<knome> scott-work, yes
<scott-work> i see that lightworks beta is going on, but it a very limited closed beta though :(
<scott-work> or, i guess this is an alpha release of lightworks
<knome> scott-work, well, we asked the canonical legal too, and they said we can sell merchandise *as long as we don't make any money out of them*
<knome> scott-work, i'll talk with ailo about the website access, and show him how he can control that
<scott-work> knome: i found it was michelle at canonical who is on the trademark team
<scott-work> "Our trade marks policy does not allow the use of UBUNTU or the UBUNTU logo for commercial purposes and we therefore cannot consent to your sale of UBUNTU branded items."
<knome> yeah, but you are not asking about ubuntu, just ubuntu studio
<scott-work> knome: that is very, very interesting, i.e. "as long as we don't make any money out of them"
<knome> you REALLY should talk with pleia2 about this, she's been handling it
<scott-work> knome: i shall
<scott-work> thank you
<knome> no problem
<knome> just trying to be helpful and exchange ideas
<ttoine> scott-work, as there is ubuntu in the name it is protected
<ttoine> I will try to chat with the ubuntu-fr loco team : they sell merchandise to help pay for bandwith and servers
<ttoine> scott-work, the other problem I have with twitter to get the @ubuntustudio for us, is that there is not physical adresse for our "organisation"
<knome> ttoine, again you might want to ask pleia2 how she did that
<ttoine> knome, where can I find her ?
<knome> ttoine, #xubuntu-devel for example
<ttoine> ok
<scott-work> ttoine: 
<scott-work> oops
<scott-work> ttoine: i think what knome is saying is that someone registered the 'xubuntu' twitter account with their own email address and then shared the address and password with others in the xubuntu-dev group
<scott-work> knome: correct me if i am wrong
<scott-work> this lets them get around the 'n physical address for the organization' issue
<scott-work> wow, super long, busy day today. going home
<ttoine> scott: it is not the same thing. to claim an account for an organisation, on should use an email adresse with the domain of this organisation
<knome> ttoine, that sounds like what we did, but i'm not sure.
<ttoine> knome, I will try to be a "member". But I don't know if my work for Ubuntu is enough...
<ttoine> I'll take some time to make my wiki page, first
<knome> ttoine, they will tell you need more, or more sustainable contribution, if that's the case
<knome> the membership process isn't there to make obtaining a @ubuntu.com email hard, but there needs to be some guidelines
<knome> once you get the membership though, it will be yours for life
<knome> (even if you stopped contributing)
<ttoine> it's okay. It is not only to have an @ubuntu.com
<knome> yeah, i know
<knome> that's how some people see the ubuntu membership though
<ttoine> but after all, I did a lot of stuff for audio production
<knome> and the guidelines need to be there partly because those people
<knome> but i think also because there needs to be *some* credibility to having that badge
<ttoine> I don't care of having a ubuntu business card : I run my own activity... But I would appreciate to see my work and my long involvment for ubuntu studio recognised. If it is not possible, It is not a problem
<ttoine> knome, of course I understand the need of filters and conditions ;-)
<knome> it definitely needs to be regocnized and getting a ubuntu membership is one of the ways to achieve that
<knome> ttoine, will you be around sometime tomorrow?
<ttoine> I guess in the afternoon. Not in the morning, I have things to do.
<knome> so that's afternoon for europe? :)
<ttoine> france, yes
<knome> ok
<ttoine> or gmt time, too
<knome> i'll tell her to get ahold of you
<ttoine> if you are at the UDS, it is quite the same
<ttoine> the same time, I mean
<knome> yeah, we are
<ttoine> think to sleep a bit ;-)
<ttoine> It is midnight here, so I go to bed. Have a nice morning/day/afternoon/evening
<knome> oki, good night and see you around
<knome> heh, yeah, midnight here as well
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-10-31
<stochastic> So nobody else in here is planning on participating in Movember?
<astraljava> stochastic: I don't think it's caught on that well over here. Here being Finland. Of course I can't say anything about the rest of the world.
<stochastic> astraljava, well it's almost an institutionalized phenomenon here in Canada now.  We've already got 90,000 people registered this year and $1.2 million raised already.  Finland does have 3000 registered and $4000 raised already, but yes, different magnitudes.  It'd be great to get more international involvement and an Ubuntu team would really help that
<astraljava> stochastic: If we had a LoCo, I guess we could do something. A flavor team doesn't make that much sense IMHO.
<astraljava> But of course I'm not opposing one, if someone sets it up.
<stochastic> hmm, I'm already a member of a team and the registration system only allows one team per user, but we could setup an "Ubuntu Network" for both individuals and loco teams to join
<ailo-uds> Good morning
<stochastic> hi ailo
<stochastic> astraljava and I were just discussing the possibility of an Ubuntu (Studio) Movember team or network
<ailo-uds> stochastic: Is that the growing a mustache thing?
<stochastic> ailo-uds, yes, but it's more than that.  It's a men's health initiative to raise money and awareness for prostate cancer.  Moustaches is just the way to get people's attention.
<ailo-uds> stochastic: I don't object to any teams under Ubuntu Studio. IMO it's up to whoever wants to create one.
<ailo-uds> stochastic: Did Scott say anything about it?
<knome> i don't think it makes sense to create a flavor team for that
<knome> just create a ubuntu one
<ailo-uds> I'm thinking a team by itself should pose no problem, if it has its own channels for communications as well. But, if using official channels, then I think we should consider if it's relevant to what Ubuntu Studio is trying to do
<ailo-uds> I agree that a Ubuntu team would make more sense
<knome> i don't have any problems with subteams either if people want to create them, and i don't even decide about these things for US, but i really think whole ubuntu team would make much more impact and sense.
<astraljava> What Eric proposed is actually a good idea, having LoCos and others networking with the main project.
<knome> yes. you can use #ubuntu-community-team for that discussion
<astraljava> Cause in the end, the movement has to realize locally anyway.
<knome> or you can join #ubuntu-uds-b3-m10 and throw the idea
<knome> we're in the community roundtable *right now*
<astraljava> I don't have time, we're going into an internal meeting now.
<knome> boo
<knome> you could just join and shout it
<astraljava> *WHAAA*
<astraljava> Dude, I'm easily scared. Don't do that, like, ever again.
<knome> lol
<astraljava> Besides, I'm not too big on any organized movements anyway. If someone is willing to drive it otherwise as well, go ahead and speak up.
<knome> nah.
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<scott-work> morning smartboyhw 
<ttoine> hop
<ttoine> hi
<scott-work> hi ttoine 
<astraljava> Hip-hop.
<smartboyhw> hi ttoine astraljava 
<smartboyhw> hi micahgmobile how's uds?
<ttoine> Hi-Hop... next I  come to USA, I definitely go have a breakfast in Hi Hop restaurant
<astraljava> ttoine: Ewww... http://www.hi-hop.com.au/
<smartboyhw> Oh?
<astraljava> Didn't know babies belong in a healthy diet.
<smartboyhw> Jesus that new Gmail feature on sending emails while also able to read them is great!!
<astraljava> Hmm, don't have it enabled yet. Does one need to do something to see it?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, it should have a popup letting you to try out the feature
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ttoine len-dt scott-work hey ready to look here http://video.ubuntu.com/live/ maybe we can see ailo do his presentation!
<smartboyhw> Yeah now is ailo's turn
<ttoine> astraljava, http://www.ihop.com/
<ttoine> streaming on !
<smartboyhw> :D
<smartboyhw> Good session from ailo
<ttoine> great !
<smartboyhw> Yay
<scott-work> doh, i missed it! :(
<scott-work> but i'm sure they will have video posted later
<smartboyhw> scott-work, don't worry. Summary: ailo talked about we need more contributors, maintaining -lowlatency kernel, developer and user docs, workflows...Nothing much else I think
<scott-work> i'm glad to hear that he did well though :)
<smartboyhw> :D
<smartboyhw> scott-work, len-dt can you approve this merge? It cleans up the version number, I accidentally set it to 0.44ubuntu1in the last code merge of plymouth text theme, which is completely wrong
<scott-work> smartboyhw: did you also change the 'ubuntu1' as well, this is unecessary as this is a native ubuntu package i believe
<smartboyhw> scott-work, that is EXACTLY the one I change
<smartboyhw> Should be
<smartboyhw> Re-proposal
<smartboyhw> https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntustudio-look/UbuntuStudio/+merge/132334
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ^
<smartboyhw> Damn delete proposal
<smartboyhw> Sorry
<smartboyhw> Someone must have fixed it
<smartboyhw> scott-work, len-dt ignore;P
<ttoine> wow, I will demonstrate audio recording with Ubuntu Studio at the JDLL in Lyon, 17-18 november
<smartboyhw> ttoine, good
<scott-work> ttoine: cool!
<ttoine> I will use my new TL Audio fat track ;-)
<smartboyhw> ttoine, er is there a english website for JDLL?:P
<ttoine> smartboyhw, no. it is an independant event, in Lyon, every year. It is managed by ALDIL, a local association for Open Source and Free Software promotion
<smartboyhw> Grr
<ttoine> and co-organised by the ubuntu-lyon local team
<ttoine> smartboyhw, sorry for that. but I think it is great too that support and events are available in other languages, and by local users
<ttoine> So I will do a workshop
<smartboyhw> ttoine, good:D
<smartboyhw> HI ailo-uds good presentation:D 
<ailo-uds> smartboyhw: Really? Was it live? Nah, I thought it sucked
<ailo-uds> First time I was on stage talking since I was a kid
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, 1. It is live and 2. both ttoine and I thought it was good
<ailo-uds> If I ever do it again, it'll be a lot better
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, yeah it is difficult to talk in front of such a large crowd
<ailo-uds> Hopefully the content was ok. The presentation itself was probably less than
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, both presentation and content is ok
<ailo-uds> Glad you liked it. I hope we got people informed about what we are trying to do, and maybe even someone will want to be apart of helping us out
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, yeah
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, did you tell them they can come to tmr's session?
<ailo-uds> Nope. knome was smart enought to do that on his own presentation
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, ah lol
<smartboyhw> ok
<ailo-uds> scott-work: You were right about getting inspired. I've went to a few sessions now that have been pretty rewarding. Many things get discussed that you don't spend enough time on otherwise, and so you get the experience you need in order to have an idea on how to sort those thigns out
<knome> :)
<smartboyhw> ailo-uds, good:D
<knome> hmm, i just took my shoes off. let's see if ailo faints.
<smartboyhw> Phew sent out that "milestone+cadence testing" email
<smartboyhw> knome, you mean IN FRONT OF ailo-uds ?
<knome> smartboyhw, yeah, i'm in front of ailo, literally
<ailo-uds> knome: OMG. Nope, I seem to be able survive
<smartboyhw> knome, ....... that's murder:P
<knome> smartboyhw, well i didn't keep the shoes on ALL day
<smartboyhw> knome, at least don't do this in front of a person:P Do it in your hotel room won't you?
<knome> smartboyhw, i will continue to do it in the future in front of people. :P
<scott-work> ailo-uds: i'm glad to hear it :)
<smartboyhw> knome, good then I will surely never come to ANY UDS so that I can avoid the smell of your shoes
<knome> :P
<ttoine> ailo-uds, it is a true geek presentation ;-)
<ttoine> english isn't your mother tong, is it ?
<knome> ttoine, that was definitely very geeky.
<zequence> Changed my nick from ailo ato zequence. Also merged my launchpad accounts, so the new one is ~zequence
<zequence> Just waiting for groups and stuff to integrate with the new account
<zequence> Some error with the merge. Hopefully it's sorted out soonish. I don't need access to source for a while anyway
<zequence> scott-work, I'm applying for Ubuntu membership soon, so that's why I'm changing my nick now, since I don't want to do that again later
<scott-work> zequence: cool! that's an important milestone
<zequence> scott-work, Seemed appropriate at this time :).
<ttoine> http://soundcloud.com/ttoine/puremix-avid-concours-de-mix
<ttoine> mixed with ardour and free lv2 plugins
<zequence> ttoine, Nice vocals
<zequence> I don't have good monitors here, so I can't really listen to the mix. Sounds pretty good from what I can tell
<zequence> ttoine, Who did the mix?
<zequence> ttoine, After translating the text, I'm guessing it was you who did the mix? Good job
<zequence> ttoine, btw, if you didn't see from the backscroll, I'm changing my nick from ailo to zequence. Also on launchpad. 
<ttoine> I did the mix
<ttoine> http://www.puremix.net/concours-de-mix.html?affid=3WS2MO4Z02
<ttoine> ah ok
<ttoine> zequence, is there a purpose ?
<ttoine> see you later
<zequence> ttoine, I just got tired of being listed as no.1, as ailo begins with a. :)
<astraljava> Best excuse for nick of choice.
<zequence> astraljava, It actually sometimes results in random irc queries, cause people just query the first nick on the list. Not often enough to be a nuisance though
<len-dt> zequence, hmmm, this means z<tab> is you.
<zequence> len-dt, Yep. Not very crowded here at Z
<zequence> Which reminds me, it's time for some ZZZ
<zequence> GN
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-01
<stochastic> astraljava, for your reference (and in case anyone asks you) I've gone ahead and setup an Ubuntu network for Movember so anyone around the world that has to do with Ubuntu can join the cause http://ca.movember.com/mospace/network/Ubuntu
<stochastic> ^^ please publicize freely
<astraljava> stochastic: ACK.
<smartboyhw> Oh I lost zequence very bad
<smartboyhw> Is it that our session comes like 4 hours later? (UDS)
<smartboyhw> hi zequence how is UDS?
<smartboyhw> BTW is this your new launchpad account? Looks empty:p
<smartboyhw> https://launchpad.net/~ailo
<zequence> ~ailo is another account I have, for testing, so not the new one. ~zequence is the new one
<zequence> ~ailo.at is to be merged with ~zequence, but at the moment it's stuck
<smartboyhw> Ah
<zequence> They have made a bug report about it, and hopefully it will be foxed soon
<zequence> fixed*
<smartboyhw> zequence, :D
<zequence> smartboyhw, Seems like Kate Stewart from Canonical will be joining us for the meeting
<smartboyhw> zequence, what ho?D
<smartboyhw> *:D
<zequence> And knome from xubuntu
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah knome should come:D
<smartboyhw> Not expecting skaet (Kate Stewart) though
<zequence> So, that's a start. I would like to make the meeting about the people who don't usually contribute to UBuntu Studio and see what ideas and thoughts they have
<zequence> Ah, she is skaet? ok :)
<zequence> She did add herself as attendant
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes:P
<astraljava> skaet is interested in some multimedia features, so might be due to personal reasons, not the professional one.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, oh:D
<zequence> astraljava, Will you be busy during that time?
<astraljava> What time would that be, then?
<zequence> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21530/community-r-ubuntustudio-planning/
<astraljava> I may be able to attend.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, yeah
<smartboyhw> ttoine, will you attend the UDS session?
<smartboyhw> zequence, got the pad updated
<smartboyhw> With two-three lines from me
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Link, please.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, same as zequence's link:P
<zequence> btw, at the last session I was getting updates about the failed merge bug report. After a while, I noticed the person handling it was sitting next to me :D
<astraljava> Ahh... right, didn't have SSO session, so didn't see details other than the meeting time. Thanks!
<smartboyhw> zequence, lol
<smartboyhw> Good
<zequence> smartboyhw, No need to add your name to the suggestions. It's usually only added for workitems
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah let me delete it:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, deleted
<zequence> smartboyhw, When I say cross flavor team, I mean one team for all flavors. Not one team for Ubuntu Studio only
<smartboyhw> zequence, well hmm......... that is complicated. zequence you will need to have the power to persuade EVERY distro on that:D
 * astraljava roughly estimates the ratio to lines where Howard doesn't smile, grin or outright laugh and ones where he does is something like 1 to 23. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, .......
<zequence> smartboyhw, Every flavor, yes. I will need to discuss it with all of them. Their leads are all aware of the proposal, or the idea of it.
<smartboyhw> zequence, good then:D
<astraljava> smartboyhw: This was just an intrigued observation, not critique. :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, the same sentence again: "Add oil"
<zequence> smartboyhw, I would suggest, if you don't mind, to delete that whole line. But, keep the one about promotion
<smartboyhw> zequence, deleted
<astraljava> Hmm... how does the pad work, how do I make my changes public?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, er...Just write it down:P
 * smartboyhw goes and picks his Chinese exercise boo
<smartboyhw> *book
<zequence> astraljava, I see the changes
<astraljava> Yes, but... my name doesn't get added to the list of authors even after I wrote it in the box.
<astraljava> Oh ok.
<astraljava> So it just doesn't update it similarly to other authors.
<zequence> astraljava, Yea, it seems the person logged in doesn't see their own name in the list. I see yours and smartboyhw 's
 * smartboyhw saw it too
<astraljava> Good, then.
<astraljava> I'll think it over later, if I have time.
 * astraljava is feeling quite sick, sore throat and all that
<knome> your nick should be at the top
<astraljava> Yes, next to the box that has the same color than my changes.
<zequence> I'll be happy if we get one new idea or decision out of the whole meeting, so not having any big expectations
<zequence> But, who knows..
<astraljava> Yeah, you never know if someone with fresh, bright ideas pops along.
<smartboyhw> added the blueprint link into the pad
<smartboyhw> yeah who knows what might happen
<smartboyhw> Embrace uncertainty:P
<zequence> smartboyhw, That sounded very kung fu
<astraljava> Well he did say he pulled out his textbooks. :)
<smartboyhw> zequence, no it is from a Apple ad about iPod Shuffle:D
<zequence> hehe
<smartboyhw> astraljava, exercise book for homework
<smartboyhw> Having holiday tmr
<zequence> Actually, it is one of the core ideas of Buddhism, I think. I like that stuff
<smartboyhw> zequence, really?
<zequence> smartboyhw, Sort of. In buddhism a large part of it is to learn how to not be afraid and defensive
<zequence> And usually people are a bit apprehensive when they do not know what to expect
<zequence> People often say that people are afraid of what they do not know
<zequence> If you always have the attitude that you will always need to change your mind every second, and not cling on to your old beliefs, when new things happen, you are prepared for that
<zequence> Anyway, that's why I thought it sounded Kung Fu
<astraljava> It's natural, though. Survival instincts alone dictate that you should be wary of the unknown.
<knome> zequence, so you are going to the US session, not the flavor product manager meeting, or what?
<zequence> astraljava, Absolutely. But, it's better to be aware of that, than to just react based on fear
<astraljava> Why are flavor-dependent sessions booked simultaneously?
<zequence> Yea, I didn't even look at what else was on
<astraljava> zequence: True, there's a subtle difference there. :)
<smartboyhw> knome, what flavour product manager session?
<knome> the "Flavor Product Manager Meeting" session at the same time as the US session.
<smartboyhw> Grr strangely zequence booked into BOTH sessions:P
<knome> of course. he should be in both.
<zequence> The order of the sessions has changed a bit, even during this week
<knome> zequence, maybe you could get ahold of somebody who's working on the schedule and try to fix it
<zequence> Funny that there are three people attending both
<knome> yeah...
<smartboyhw> zequence, add it to four:P
<knome> or, "funny"
<knome> smartboyhw, remote participants don't count :P
<zequence> There is room at a later time
<zequence> But, I might want to suggest we just scrap it
<smartboyhw> knome, LOL that's good actually I can join both:P
<smartboyhw> zequence, scrap what?
<zequence> Our meeting
<smartboyhw> zequence, uh
<knome> yeah, probably not too important as there's only ailo around
<zequence> Cause I think people who want to go to ours might prefer to go the other one, and we would have a benefit of going too
<knome> you can just have an irc meeting and it will be the same
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<knome> err, zequence 
<knome> :P
<knome> this is going to take some time
<knome> (learning the new nick)
<smartboyhw> zequence, let's just plan a formal IRC meeting then scott-work and holstein and ttoine and others can come too:P
<zequence> smartboyhw, Yeah, this was not meant to be an internal meeting, and since not many are coming, we might just as well just skip it
<smartboyhw> zequence, ok skip it.
<zequence> persia, Welcome back
<knome> hey persia :=
<smartboyhw> Who's persia ? Sorry:P
<persia> hey knome
<knome> umh. fingers still not working
<knome> persia is a gentleman from uds.
<persia> Anyway, heads-up: there was a schedule change for our session: now 15:15 UTC
<smartboyhw> Which session?
<persia> smartboyhw: Ubuntu Studio planning for R
<zequence> persia, Ah, great
<zequence> We just decided to cancel it
<smartboyhw> persia, we are that is great:D
<smartboyhw> persia, yeah not many people are gonna attend so
<smartboyhw> scraped :P
<persia> Cool.  Cancelling would be bad, because there are folk we don't usually see who might see the output.
<zequence> persia, That's what I was hoping for too
<zequence> So, we'll keep it on. The time is just moved 1h 15min ahead
<persia> Can everyone we need make the 16:15 Copenhagen time then?
<knome> i'll be able to make it
<persia> zquence: 75min later in the day
<smartboyhw> persia, not for me
<smartboyhw> Though attending remotely
<knome> i'm going to get up and walk around a bit
<ttoine> hi
<knome> see you later
<ttoine> Can someone add me to the facebook page admin ?
<smartboyhw> ttoine, don't get too aggressive:P
<zequence> ttoine, We need to decide on how our public relations team should work. 
<zequence> ttoine, For now, Scott is admin. We need to discuss what to do, who will do it, under what forms
<zequence> Then probably we'll have many people posting stuff
<zequence> smartboyhw, He's not agressive. Only eager to get stuff done
<zequence> Just like you, I guess
<smartboyhw> zequence, LOL I get the point
 * smartboyhw is doing some Ubuntu Packaging guide translations
<astraljava> persia: Good to see you back!
<zequence> I do want for people to be able to work independently, without consent from the dev team, but we just need to work out the details first.
 * astraljava should be able to make 16:15 CET.
<persia> sorry: connectivity here is sporadic.
<zequence> ttoine, I started a thread about a Ubuntu Studio public relations team
<zequence> ttoine, I think the first step is to collect a list of channels that we want to be using.
<zequence> ttoine, Once we have a nice big list (we can always add to it later), we decide how to handle accounts
<zequence> And of course, we should discuss what sort of things we want to post
<zequence> Make a list of things we want to do in the media
<zequence> After that, it's just a matter of letting the ball start rolling, right?
<smartboyhw> zequence, I am planning to write an article about Ubuntu Studio contrbutions and introduction in the Full Circle Magazine
<zequence> smartboyhw, Sounds great
<smartboyhw> :D
<zequence> ttoine, Hey, I just realized, you are out French connection
<zequence> ttoine, Maybe you'd like to handle some French channels/forums as well
<persia> smartboyhw: do you want us to avoid your topic?
<smartboyhw> persia, what topic?
<smartboyhw> zequence, thought of one thing: In the developer guide you probably should talk about maintaining the -default-settings, -look and -meta packages (last one has been talked about in seed management)
<zequence> smartboyhw, True. The docs are not detailed atm, and if we want to create a universal dev doc for all, Ubuntu Studio specific stuff will need it's own area in the wiki
<zequence> Until now, I've been considering the whole thing Ubuntu Studio specific, but I will want to change that
<zequence> The whole thing will be restructured and rewritten. It's just a sketch the way it is now
<smartboyhw> zequence, that specific stuff should be in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/SoftwareDevelopment
<zequence> smartboyhw, Well, maybe not. Cause, software development in this case is more about creating new applications that aren't necessarily Ubuntu Studio specific. 
<zequence> We 
<zequence> We'd create them for Ubuntu Studio, but they could be used for other distros as well
<zequence> ubuntustudio-looks and ubuntustudio-settings aren't applications
<smartboyhw> zequence, hmm ok.....Since when you become a universal guy? UDS-R?
<zequence> smartboyhw, I've been thinking along those lines from the start. It's just smart to keep those things universal, that people have in common, and those thing local, which are only needed by us
<zequence> But, yes, while I was here, I did realize that dev docs might not need to be local for US, so that is something that came as an effect of me being at UDS
<astraljava> zequence: Heh, exactly what I wrote in the 'pad just few moments ago. :)
<persia> smartboyhw: In the session, since you can't make it, do you want us to not cover so much about the stuff you've been doing?  I've seen you active with driving testing and working with the release team, but I've been away long enough that I acknowledge I don't have a clear picture yet.
<smartboyhw> persia, can't understand....... 
 * smartboyhw is confused
<zequence> persia, I think smartboyhw can attend
<zequence> right smartboyhw?
<smartboyhw> zequence, not on 16:15
<smartboyhw> CET
<zequence> smartboyhw, Oh..
<zequence> Well, I don't see any topics that need to be dropped on account of that
<smartboyhw> zequence, persia: is it impossible to make it like uh 15:45?
<smartboyhw> zequence, true
<zequence> We'll just improvise depending on who comes, and whatever we start talking about. I find it hard to prepare for the unexpected
<zequence> persia, You have any ideas for topics?
<persia> zequence: No.  I'll probably have comments about the topics, but I need to finish catching up on the semantic changes in how we do studio over the past year before I can usefully help define new topics.
<smartboyhw> persia, a suggestion: Read back all the archives in the ubuntu-studio-devel mailing lists
<persia> ad-hoc based on attendance works for me: I think we have way more specs than time to cover thm in a single sessin anyway :)
<zequence> persia, Ack. A quick way would be to look at the blueprint overview: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/RaringBlueprintsCategories
<persia> smartboyhw: I've been doing that, and reading all the backscroll in this channel, and ... (but this takes a long time, so I'm not ready to do more than occasionally comment on things yet)
<smartboyhw> :D
<persia> zequence: That sounds like a reasonable agenda: go through the specs, and based on who says things on audio, or comments on IRC, dive into details.
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, Ubuntu Studio R session delayed to 16:15 CET
<scott-work> morning smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, since the -testing-docs blueprint has only one work item and that that work item belongs to me can you also set the assignee of that blueprint to me? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-testing-doc
<smartboyhw> BTW scott-work is it the best for you to join http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21542/foundations-r-flavor-pm-mtg/ ?
<scott-work> 2nd question - most likely
<scott-work> 1st question - i will see, but i think much more needs to be put into the testing blueprint
<scott-work> smartboyhw: ^^^
<smartboyhw> scott-work, the problem is: zequence (aka ailo) thought that we only need a testing documentaion, and I think that he once said that there isn't really that much things to add to testing so..... Maybe UTAH, but zequence is handling it so
<scott-work> smartboyhw: is the flavour PM meeting happening now, is there an audio link to listen, and what is the IRC for it?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, 1. yes, 2. http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/b3-m5.ogg.m3u 3. #ubuntu-uds-b3-m5 and 4. If you want a video link you should go to https://plus.google.com/117429523430977492101/posts
<scott-work> smartboyhw: thank you very much
<smartboyhw> scott-work, NP
<scott-work> i'm not sure what UTAH is, but i feel that we need some documentation that explains the purpose of testing, contract milestone vs daily test, links various things (e.g. qa website for available test, reporting tests), explaining that we need to report testing, etc
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ya ya ya I will work on that:D
<smartboyhw> Ha zequence finally got his Launchpad account merged
<smartboyhw> zequence, congrats your LP account finally got merged
<zequence> smartboyhw, Really? Great
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah:D
<zequence> smartboyhw, hmm, doesn't seem like it
<smartboyhw> zequence, uh at least the blueprints show up that you are the approver hmm.......
<zequence> The ailo.at is still there, and zequence has not got the teams yet
<zequence> Maybe it's happening, but one step at a time
<smartboyhw> zequence, gee...sorry
<scott-work> smartboyhw: we really didn't define who should mark the blueprints as approved or what "approved" means
<smartboyhw> scott-work,  no no no no
<smartboyhw> zequence's name was originally greyed with link to ailo.at, now it is coloured with it pointing to zequence 
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I mean that actually;p
<scott-work> i understand
<scott-work> sadly i am really unable to pay attention to the flavour session :(  to many interruptions at work
<smartboyhw> scott-work, I am;P
<smartboyhw> zequence, please write a summary for scott-work since he is unable to focus at the session going on now (better to send the summary to the whole list)
<zequence> scott-work, Ah, too bad. I'm a bit lost in this subject. I'm just thinking we should do as you said. Focus on following the Ubuntu release schedule
<smartboyhw> zequence, you mean only 1 beta + RC?
<zequence> One beta makes a lot of sense. We keep working against it. Beta out -  we do testing and bug fixing. Done. Get release out
<smartboyhw> zequence, a question then: Should we do cadence testing?
<zequence> smartboyhw, I need to look into that to have an opinion
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK just find balloons , he should be in the same room as yours
<zequence> smartboyhw, Not today :)
<zequence> I'll read up on it
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh OK
<smartboyhw> zequence, a brief summary
<smartboyhw> We do testing every two weeks
<smartboyhw> There will be NO freeze, the daily builds will continue
<smartboyhw> So that if we fix a bug we can immediately see the effect the next day
<smartboyhw> We don't have to complete all the testcases
<micahg> smartboyhw: there might be partial freezes (and final freeze still)
<smartboyhw> micahg, there might be
<smartboyhw> zequence, are they asking about the milestones now?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, so what do ya think about the milestones?
<smartboyhw> zequence, did you just say that Beta 1 is OK for us? 
<zequence> smartboyhw, Nope. Beta2
<zequence> Or, finalBeta
<smartboyhw> zequence, good thx
<smartboyhw> zequence, then type what milestones are we having in http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21542/foundations-r-flavor-pm-mtg/ please so everyone can see
<zequence> smartboyhw, I think Kate will take care of that
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh ok:D
<zequence> But I added it now, so
<smartboyhw> Had to add a remark about cadence testing still in discussion;P
<smartboyhw> zequence, ^
<zequence> smartboyhw, I think we can do testing without alphas and betas
<smartboyhw> zequence, you want ONLY an RC? 
 * smartboyhw objects sadly
<zequence> smartboyhw, No. We will have finalbeta and rc
<smartboyhw> zequence, excuse me: What is the difference between a Beta and a finalbeta?
<zequence> smartboyhw, I was just saying, we don't need more than one Beta. 
<zequence> We can do testing without specific releases
<zequence> We just do them
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes 1 beta. Isn't that what we are talking about?
<zequence> smartboyhw, Yep
<smartboyhw> zequence, yay:D
<smartboyhw> zequence, you typed my name wrong, I am not a filesystem I am Howard...
<smartboyhw> You typed smartboyfs
<zequence> smartboyhw, You're right. I might never do that again
<zequence> HW, FS, HD, CD
<smartboyhw> Got the internet connection off:(
<smartboyhw> zequence, any summary?:P
<zequence> smartboyhw, No summary. Break now, and then our session
<smartboyhw> OK
<holstein> smartboyhw: ping
<smartboyhw> holstein, eh?
<holstein> im checking in for a few minutes from a van on the way to DC :)
<smartboyhw> holstein, so?
<holstein> can you fill me in on anything i might need to know?
<smartboyhw> holstein, what do you mean, to DC?
<smartboyhw> holstein, ah ok
<holstein> im just traveling... on "tour" kind of ;)
<smartboyhw> holstein, nothing much, we are going to have only 1 beta and rc just like Ubuntu Studio
<scott-work> smartboyhw: do you still want responsibility for the testing blueprint, even with the possibility of adding extra tasks for explaining the purpose of testings, the contrasts between milestone vs dailies, and links?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yes
<smartboyhw> scott-work, easy to handle:D
<holstein> scott-work: im into being envolved with the PR team.. im just slammed for a bit more... maybe another week
<knome> smartboyhw, just to point out, you never should expect anything to be easy
<scott-work> holstein: cool. i'm glad you are going to be involved
<knome> hey scott
<scott-work> hi knome, how is UDS going for you?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: done
<knome> scott-work, well it's fine, only one session to go and i'm happy about it ;)
<smartboyhw> knome, easier than coding:P
<knome> smartboyhw, that doesn't imply anything.
<smartboyhw> knome, easier than visual arts
<smartboyhw> easier than writing testcases even!
<knome> smartboyhw, those don't imply anything either-
<smartboyhw> knome, then what does it imply?
<knome> smartboyhw, nothing
<smartboyhw> zequence, who just joined apart from you and knome ?
<scott-work> anyone know of a good application to prototype dialogue boxes?
<astraljava> glade?
<scott-work> is it easy to use without getting into code?
<scott-work> astraljava: ^^^
<astraljava> Pretty much, you can just draw the UI without any code behind it.
<astraljava> Depends what you wanna do with it.
<astraljava> Print it out?
<scott-work> i can do this in inkscape, but using someone else that would make the buttons look like buttons would be extremely helpful :P
<astraljava> Yes, give it a shot.
<scott-work> astraljava: i want to play around with dialogue boxes for doing a video
<knome> i thought inkscape has some "make it look like a button" buttons ;)
<scott-work> i've been toying around with what i'm calling "re-imaging the desktop" for content creation and want to do a few videos to demo the functionality
<scott-work> that would go so much further than just typing words ;)
<knome> scott-work, you're not attending the US UDS session?
<astraljava> Wait, it's _now_?
<knome> well.
<knome> was
<scott-work> i'm five minutes from going into a meeting and i've been interuptted all morning
<knome> ends in 5 mins.
<astraljava> meh
<scott-work> so i've basically given up on any sessions today
<knome> we have zequence, persia, cjcurran and micahg here
<scott-work> it's going to be "one of those days" apparently :P
<knome> yeah
<scott-work> awwww, i've missed meeting persia once again :(
<knome> it already was :D
<knome> urr
<knome> scott-work, i've had the honour of meeting him in two uds's
<scott-work> okay, going downstairs for me meeting, be back in thirty or so
<knome> right, see you
<scott-work> knome: now you are just bragging ;)
<knome> scott-work, haha
<knome> maybe..
<zequence> scott-work, We got some stuff. I need to go through the workitems, and discuss them with you once I'm back from UDS http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21530/community-r-ubuntustudio-planning/
<zequence> Seems like we might be getting help from cjcurran, if you know the guy? Seemed to me he's been involved before
<astraljava> Yeh the name rings a bell, but can't put a finger on it.
<astraljava> ...the bell.
<zequence> astraljava, Irish audio guy. He seems to have a good idea about a lot of things
<zequence> audio coding and mixing particularly
<astraljava> Right. Wonder what nick he used, if he was on here.
<knome> cjcurran is his LP nick
<zequence> Ah
<persia> cjcurran's IRC nick is ronoc
<knome> cheers persia from 3 chairs away
<astraljava> Oh well, can't recall.
<zequence> Didn't realize he was working for canonical..
<zequence> Anyway, that's one addition. Now we just need about 20 more ;)
<zequence> Time to get slaughtered by Vikings soon
<astraljava> Is this a daily thing? How are you getting reincarnated?
<astraljava> And in the same location even?
<zequence> astraljava, Nope. This is one time only. If we're lucky enough to survive, we'll have the chance to celebrate with karaoke
<astraljava> Oh. Whoopy doo.
<knome> i think if i'm up to another night of the vikings
<astraljava> knome: Were you cut off mid-sentence?
<knome> nope.
<astraljava> Well, your conditional kinda left unfinished.
<astraljava> Oh, you mean you 'wonder'.
<astraljava> Well, you've degenerated into not punctuating anymore, either, so it's only fair your grammar goes down the drain as well. *smirk*
<knome> lol
<knome> oh.
<knome> i don't know if...
<knome> yes, i'm tired
<astraljava> Heh, yes I can imagine.
<astraljava> Oh well, I'm off to watch and play hockey. Simultaneously.
<knome> see you. have fun.
<zequence> astraljava, I hope Finns will win ;)
<astraljava> There's unsurprisingly good chance for that.
<astraljava> Err... surprisingly.
<astraljava> I'm tried as well.
<astraljava> tired*
<astraljava> grr
<scott-work> ah yes, ronoc, i have talked to him before, he's the audio guy for ubuntu sounds i believe or at least has done some stuff with it previously
<ttoine> falktx, is there a possibility that the ardour version in you PPAs don't work with the gui of the LV2 plugins ?
<falktx> hm, I can try
<ttoine> because in 12.04 it works
<falktx> ttoine: which plugin GUIs don't work?
<ttoine> and in 12.10 it doesn't work
<ttoine> falktx, any LV2 plugin I test is diplayed like a ladspa V1
<falktx> in ardour2:
<falktx> external UIs: work
<ttoine> note that it depends on ubuntu release
<falktx> lv2-gtk2 uis don't seem to be working
<falktx> wait, they do
<ttoine> ?
<falktx> some work, some don't
<falktx> ok they do work
<falktx> some lv2 plugins are actually ladpsa coming from naspro-bridges
<falktx> so those won't have gui, because they are actually ladpsa
<ttoine> but plugins working on 12.04 with their gui, eg Invada, don't work on 12.10
<falktx> ardour seem to be using the ladspa version instead of lv2
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> but it was not the case in 12.04
<falktx> remove 'naspro-bridges' and try again
<falktx> that does the trick here
<ttoine> falktx, naspro-bridges is not installed on this workstation
<ttoine> so it means that I can  not open my ardour works with 12.10
<ttoine> I tried installing naspro, test, then uninstalling, and retest
<ttoine> always the lv1 in ardour
<ttoine> It means too that I can't do any workshop with 12.10
<falktx> btw, there is no lv1, it's ladspa
<falktx> don't say lv1, no one knows what that is
<ttoine> falktx, yes, it is true. but LV2 is ladspa V2. so it was to be clear
<falktx> no it's not
<falktx> there's no such thing called "lv1"
<falktx> calling it lv1 means that lv2 is the 2nd generation ladpsa, which is not completely true
<falktx> and some devs won't like it being called that
<ttoine>  ok, noticed
<ttoine> falktx, and so ,what should I do ? compile ardour lv2 by myself
<falktx> no idea...
<ttoine> or stay in 12.04
<falktx> I don't have that error, so I dont' know
<falktx> you can always use the old version from 12.04
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ardour/1:2.8.12-1
<ttoine> falktx, I install your PPA on a vanilla Ubuntu, not on a Ubuntu Studio
<falktx> use the i386 or amd64 version as needed
<ttoine> falktx, wich version of Ubuntu are you using ?
<falktx> 12.04
<ttoine> OK
<falktx> I don't plan to ever use 12.10, no need for it
<ttoine> So, at the moment, my workstation is on 12.04 and it works. when I try to open an Ardour session in 12.10 on my laptop, LV2 gui don't work
<falktx> well, use the 12.04 deb packages then
<ttoine> falktx, it means that there is no version of Ardour in your PPA for 12.10 ?
<falktx> there is
<falktx> but you just said it doesn't work...
<ttoine> falktx, on 12.04 it works well. I said that on 12.10 LV2 gui in Ardour don't work
<falktx> yes, that's why i said to use the 12.04 ardour packages in 12.10
<ttoine> Actually, for producton I use 12.04. But I have a workshop with Ubuntu Studio, and the audience is expect me to run 12.10. And I can do my workshop without showing Ardour and LV2...
<ttoine> falktx, ok. do you install from sources ? or with the deb ?
<falktx> I package stuff and use the final deb
<ttoine> and why not put it in your repo ?
<falktx> well, I don't know if you're using my repos or not
<falktx> you haven't said so
<falktx> so I assume you're not, thus I assume the error is irrelevant to the kx repos
<falktx> if you do use my repos and the bug is present, then I'll look for a fix and upload it
<ttoine> I use your repos
<ttoine> falktx, I use your repos for both my wokstation with 12.04 and my laptop with 12.10. It is usefull to have lv2 plugins
<falktx> ah, ok, then it's a different thing
<ttoine> if I won't use your repos, I won't bother you ;-)
<falktx> hehe
<falktx> I will rebuild the ardour package
<falktx> maybe it fixes it, maybe not. but it's worth a try
<ttoine> I let you know as soon as I see the update
<ttoine> oh, and of course, I don't use it only for lv2 plugins. the packages you provide are usefull in general
<ttoine> Now, I need to go to sleep.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-02
<smartboyhw> scott-work, ping
<smartboyhw> zequence, you here?
<smartboyhw> LOL
<contrapunctus> Haha
<smartboyhw> LOL
<contrapunctus> smartboyhw, see if you know something for this - download a file in Firefox, then 'open containing folder', it uses nautilus =\ How can I make it use Thunar? O_o
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, default file manager?
<contrapunctus> ?
<smartboyhw> "Settings" -> "Preferred applications" -> "Utilities" -> "File Manager" -> Choose "Thunar"
<contrapunctus> Ah.
<contrapunctus> Never saw that there o.o
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, :D
<contrapunctus> Excellent, worked! Thanks ^^
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, np
<contrapunctus> ...damn, I just realized this was all in the dev chan. Sorry. >_>
<smartboyhw> contrapunctus, LOL
<smartboyhw> Hi zequence 
<zequence> ScottL, Good day
<jussi> right, so I fixed the ops call in #ubuntustudio, not that we use it much
<astraljava> jussi: Great! So when are you gonna fix the naming convention?! *smirk*
<jussi> astraljava: to be deadly honest, the care factor for anything like that is less than 0. you are an op, why dont you fix it?
<astraljava> I'm with ya on the care factor, honestly. :)
<contrapunctus> Naming convention? O_o
<zequence> contrapunctus, Hey, would you like to help out with something concerning development?
<zequence> I see you hanging around here, so I thought maybe we could put you to some use :)
<zequence> There are many things you can do, no matter what your skill set is
<contrapunctus> Sure
<contrapunctus> But I'm just a musician...I'm told I have good English though, so docs or something, maybe?
<contrapunctus> zequence ...?
<zequence> contrapunctus, Docs , absolutely
<contrapunctus> Yay.
<zequence> contrapunctus, We might need help with posting news, and creating them
<contrapunctus> This be volunteer work?
<zequence> contrapunctus, Yes. We are all volunteers 
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio is a volunteer project
<contrapunctus> I can do the news thing, but I need to know how much time am I expected to give per day before I sign.
<contrapunctus> *I am
<zequence> contrapunctus, Oh, don't worry about time. Whatever you feel you can spare. Important thing is you feel it's fun
<zequence> Doesn't need to be a long term commitment. 
<zequence> contrapunctus, Are you subscribing to the ubuntu-studio-devel mail list?
<contrapunctus> Non.
<contrapunctus> Not yet.
<contrapunctus> zequence, what do I do there?
<zequence> contrapunctus, Please do. subscribe to it. We do a lot of discussion there
<zequence> contrapunctus, Do you subscribe to any mail lists?
<zequence> There's also the ubuntu-studio-user
<zequence> contrapunctus, You'll find links to both at the bottom end of this page https://ubuntustudio.org/support/
<contrapunctus> I subscribed to LAU, but its pointless, I don't post.
<contrapunctus> I just read the archives :)
<contrapunctus> Am I required to post there or just read? o.o
<zequence> contrapunctus, No need to post. Usually, you'll post if you have opinions about something, etc
<zequence> contrapunctus, Here's an overview of blueprints for this cycle https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/RaringBlueprintsCategories
<zequence> Each blueprint has a set of workitems, that anyone can assign to themselves
<zequence> Also, anyone is able to add workitems to blueprints
<zequence> contrapunctus, You'll need a launchpad account to edit
<zequence> contrapunctus, Just have a look at blueprints that might interest you
<contrapunctus> zequence ...you're Ailo? O_o
<zequence> contrapunctus, Ah, yeah :)
<zequence> I changed my nick
<contrapunctus> Ah.
<contrapunctus> What's Raring?
<contrapunctus> 13.04?
<zequence> Yep
<zequence> Raring Ringtail
<ttoine> hi
<zequence> contrapunctus, If you haven't done so already, get yourself a launchpad account. https://launchpad.net/
<zequence> ttoine, What's up?
<ttoine> falktx has updated Ardour for 12.10 in his repos
<ttoine> and so, I can use LV2 plugins on the current version of Ubuntu
<contrapunctus> Hm...kinda confusing to understand, zequence.
<ttoine> zequence, and you, still at the uds ?
<zequence> ttoine, Sorry, I had to disappear for a while
<zequence> I'm still in MalmÃ¶, which is in Sweden, next to Copenhagen, Denmark. Will return home to Gothenburg tomorrow
<zequence> Had to book a hotel for this night
<ttoine> zequence, ok
<ttoine> hope for you that your trip to home will be good
<zequence> ttoine, Thanks. 
<zequence> ttoine, btw, as you probably read in the mail list, ScottL is taking charge of the PR stuff, so please do talk with him about what you would like to do
<zequence> I guess, he'll first want to set things up
<ttoine> zequence, I saw that. An d I am not very surprised
<ttoine> I can't spend so much time as he does on Ubuntu Studio
<ttoine> I just hope that he will let a place to others, like me, to do some stuff with PR
<ttoine> Because previous Ubuntu Studio leader, Cory, wanted to keep maximum control, and that was the reason why I left the devel time at this time
<ttoine> We need to build a community
<holstein> ttoine: glad to see you are back!
<ttoine> the devel team
<zequence> ttoine, Yea, we absolutely do need freedom to work independently. It's the only way for the team to grow
<ttoine> holstein, thanks
<ttoine> and things have to be splitted depending on the skills
<zequence> I think we need to have some sort of consent within the team about a range of things, but at the same time, each one responsible of their area should be able to make decisions on their own
<ttoine> for example, I would like to create a Youtube channel, for video howtos
<ttoine> zequence, I just hope that our current leader will listen to that ;-)
<zequence> ttoine, We still need team leads for some things. I'm the doc lead, for instance. And I would consider ScottL as the lead for the still not existing public relations team
<zequence> But, I consider that more of an administrative role, to assure quality
<holstein> you can still do PR though, if you want
<ttoine> I don't think it is as thing to do alone
<holstein> PR?
<holstein> you can get a few people and do it
<holstein> im just saying, if you want to do PR, no one is stopping anyone from doing that
<holstein> there is just a plan in motion, somewhere in the works
<ttoine> I think that, as we have a wordpress based website, we should all have an account. and use it to suggest posts. etc... then, the choosen editors can put online what is good
<zequence> ttoine, Sounds like a good idea
<holstein> i would actually like to see some press other places
<zequence> ttoine, You are free to add workitems for things like this on the public relations blueprint
<holstein> other folks talking about it... and link that to the ubuntu newsletter
<zequence> holstein, Check out the blueprint to see some suggestions
<holstein> yeah, i've seen it.. im just saying what im willing to take on, and plan to do at some point
<holstein> i got a bit more work to do though before i can get into it
<zequence> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations
<holstein> still, im just talking about from a mind-share perspective
<holstein> i would like to see things addd to our worpress, sure, but i would also like to just see a general buzz about the project
<holstein> i would like to get back to working on jono
<zequence> We should use as many channels as possible, I think. As much as is practical and makes sense
<holstein> jono could help US a lot.. 
<zequence> holstein, What's jono?
<holstein> jono bacon?
<holstein> the ubuntu community lead.. who makes music.. using windwos XP
<holstein> and im not attacking him for that decision.. i just would like to help him add ubuntustudio to his music workflow and help with a buzz
<astraljava> Really? Makes music with XP?
<zequence> I think if you guys keep working on ScottL and shooting ideas, this things could be wrapped up pretty soon
<zequence> Like within a week or os
<ttoine> a lot of people use XP and Mac, even if they are fan of Ubuntu or LInux
<zequence> There isn't that awful much that needs to be decided before starting to post stuff, I imagine
<holstein> sure, but jono is not a "fan" of ubuntu.. he's the #2 guy
<astraljava> Well Macs I understand a little better, but XP?
<holstein> i mean, use what you want... i just recorded at sirriusXM today, and they all have XP running.. but they dont advertise and promote ubuntu
<ttoine> because when you know it well, it can be very stable for music. there are plenty of hardware and software available
<zequence> I personally had a much easier time on XP than on Mac, when I was still using both
<holstein> yeah, but jono should be using it... its quite equivalent to a desktop user saying "i know windows and word"
<zequence> Mac had a lot more issues in the past. Probably not true anymore
<holstein> and im not saying, lets go give him a hard time.. i really just want to teach him to use ubuntu for music production.. so he'll talk about it
<astraljava> Yeah, the blaming will get us nowhere, and I don't care enough to even get started. Was just wondering. :)
<ttoine> holstein, so you will take the time to make him change his soundcard if it's not handled by alsa or ffado ?
<holstein> ttoine: i would send him one in the mail.. and have offered
<ttoine> because around me, the only thing people are saying is : yes, ardour is great. But there near no good plugins to work with. I can't open my previous work. What's up with my commercial plugins ?
<ttoine> etc.
<holstein> ttoine: its a matter of time, and learing JACK, and the software
<ttoine> I don't think so
<holstein> ttoine: thats what jono said
<ttoine> for example, Harrison Mixbus, based on Ardour, is a great software
<holstein> when i left him no other option (excuse)
<holstein> ttoine: when folks talk about plugs, they are talking about vst's.. instruments
<ttoine> but it is very good on Windows and Mac because it can use commercial plugins
<ttoine> it is not possible easily on Linux
<holstein> we dont have ones that folks like
<ttoine> holstein, no
<holstein> ttoine: i dont think thats up for debate, man
<holstein> ttoine: we dont have them
<ttoine> I speak about recording audio. so commercial compressors, eq, etc...
<holstein> they arent available
<ttoine> yes
<holstein> ttoine: those users are mis-informed and not looking for alternatives
<ttoine> hum
<holstein> ttoine: they want the exact plugs they use
<ttoine> I just think that this is one of the reason why Jono still use XP
<holstein> ttoine:  hes says instruments
<holstein> drums
<holstein> vbsvst's
<holstein> vst's*
<holstein> anyways, you can ask him
<ttoine> yes
<holstein> im just saying what i see, and have encoutered
<holstein> when folks say "i dont have a verb" and i suggest one, and they try it, they usually accept it
<ttoine> One of my good friends sampled zynaddsubfx sounds he created, and then, go in XP to use them in fruity loops
<holstein> the instruments... we dont have those quite as nice and easy
<holstein> zynadd is a great example.. or the current yoshimi
<ttoine> Perhaps, we should reference somewhere all the commercial native plugins and insturments for Linux available
<holstein> ttoine: they arent included though... which is another challenge
<holstein> unfortunately, i think folks come to ubuntustudio to save money
<ttoine> They don't need to be included. But we have to speak about them
<holstein> ttoine: wont hurt
<holstein> ttoine: harrison and mixbux wnated to list ubuntustudio as the official supported distro
<holstein> ttoine: i think we missed the boat on that though
<astraljava> holstein: Do you remember the project, some music professor started, to record all instruments of a symphonic orchestra, and release them under some CC license? Whatever happened to the project?
<holstein> ttoine: i see it at AVlinux..
<holstein> astraljava: lsd would remember... open orchestra
<holstein> something like that
<ttoine> yes. but think that at the moment, UbuntuStudio is the only easy to install multimedia linux distro at the moment
<holstein> nah.. AVlinux is nice
<astraljava> holstein: Ok, thanks.
<holstein> very nice... and some other spins... kxstudio.. etc
<ttoine> holstein, what do you use for your own productions ?
<holstein> ttoine: my studio rig is running ubuntustudio 10.04 with the kxstudio ppa's added
<holstein> i have a 12.10 install on that machine for testing as well
<holstein> i have 12.04 installed most other places... though i check out avlinux each new release.. and use it for troubleshooting
<holstein> its a great live CD... and a nice distro
<holstein> its dying off though :/
<ttoine> holstein, that what I woulf like to notice : AVlinux is dying. 64Studio is not updated for a long time ago, Garbure too, ...
<ttoine> With the workshop I do, I see that there are a lot of people looking at us at the moment
<ttoine> and not necessary because they want to save money. Some are just day to day Ubuntu or other Linux distro users, wanting to use it for multimedia production
<ttoine> at the moment, it is like Ubuntu is seen just as a good distro for server, cloud and office
<holstein> kx is still around.. av just released.. though 64 has been dead, and openDAW is not happening
<holstein> ttoine: thats great!.. in the buisness i am in, which is the music buisness, no one knows about US
<ttoine> for home, if the coming of valve and blizzard give us access to commercial games, a lot of users will come to Ubuntu. And they all say "I want to make short family movies", etc...
<holstein> its either protools, or you aint doing it right
<ttoine> holstein, yes... too bad...
<holstein> i try to show what ubuntustudio can do... but its not easy as just installing the softare and loading it up
<ttoine> I use kxstudio with Ubuntu, and Ubuntu Studio, it is a great addon
<holstein> i think we can get some buzz doing though
<holstein> i dont even want to personally address what ubuntustudio can replace
<holstein> i just want to show what im doing with it, and make folks want it
<ttoine> holstein, when I come with a standard live usb of Ubuntu Studio, show that it runs on any laptop, with a firewire or usb sound card, and that you can record etc... it is impressive. But people I see are all hobbyists, or floss enthousiats
<holstein> ttoine: i think thats great thogh.. and it doesnt hurt to spread the word!
<ttoine> yes. One major release for Linux will help us : the video editor "Lighworks"
<holstein> yup!... are you following that ttoine ?
<ttoine> if it really happens, we will have a serious pro video editor available. And for free for hobbyists
<holstein> where are we with it?
<holstein> i think steam is going to hel ptoo
<ttoine> holstein, one of the thing I do best is following and finding news on what interest me ;-)
<ttoine> holstein, it is official that they release the best parts of Lightworks as an Open Source software. Their economic model is freemium : you pay for restricted codecs modules, etc...
<holstein> ttoine: i hope that doesnt keep us from being abe to include it by default
<holstein> well, im almost home after 7+ hours in the car!... bbl
<ttoine> ok
<ttoine> holstein, me too. It will be far better than Cinelerra...
<ttoine> good night !
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-03
<acmeinc1> i noticed a thread on the forum about the rt kernel for quantal.  how could i load this on the lts?
<astraljava> acmeinc1: Have a look at here: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/kernel
<astraljava> Since we're on -devel, I trust I don't have to keep my mandatory speech about non-existing support etc. :)
<falktx_> astraljava: please don't give me credit for those kernels, they are from abogani
<falktx_> I just copied them to be safe
<falktx_> sometimes he deletes them
<contrapunctus> zequence - Mate, I thought it over, and I'm afraid I will not be able to do it. Too busy struggling as a musician...I apologize.
<smartboyhw> Oh no
<zequence> Too bad
<smartboyhw> zequence, welcome back from UDS:D
<zequence> smartboyhw, Thanks. I'm not home yet though. Will be later today
<smartboyhw> zequence, good:D
<zequence> contrapunctus, I understand. I'm pretty low on time myself - I think everyone are. Don't think you need to make a decision either for or against
<zequence> It's not such a deadly serious business being a Ubuntu Studio developer
<zequence> And we don't make demands on anyone, cause we know it's tough being able to commit
<zequence> contrapunctus, If you change your mind, or just keep hanging around here, you might find something you'd like to do in the future. Don't be a stranger in any case
<smartboyhw> Hi ScottL 
<smartboyhw> zequence, I have a mind: It is difficult for us to use the mailiing list to subscribe to the bugs, but then why can't we just use the team to subscribe to the bugs? We only have mainly 4 packages: -meta, -default-settings, -look, -icon-theme (some I do not know maybe). It should be easy to subscribe to their bug mails
<zequence> smartboyhw, Yes, we should use the team to subscribe to bugs. Right now, the dev team is automatically subscribed
<smartboyhw> zequence, then the bug team should too
<zequence> smartboyhw, Yes. That is the plan
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<len-dt> zequence, smartboyhw that is because we own the packages.
<smartboyhw> zequence, then just abolish the mailing list no use at all
<smartboyhw> len-dt, yes we know;D
<zequence> Woa, I wrote some c code. That doesn't happen often
<contrapunctus> lmfao, zequence. You're being assimilated into the dev team. Four months later you'll become a programmer xD
<zequence> contrapunctus, I do quite a lot of developing, but not in C/C++
<zequence> Mostly script.. bash/python and puredata
<zequence> You can do quite a lot with python
<contrapunctus> @_@
<contrapunctus> I learned a little C++...in school. Forgot everything now -_-'
<zequence> Yea, I don't remember much by heart. I'm always looking at some reference
<contrapunctus> Dunno about other languages but PureData and C++ really make you think in a particular way.
<zequence> I'm not very familiar with C++, which seems like a huge language, but in some respect, all the languages are quite simple. The problem is in how to use the
<zequence> And most of them are very similar too
<knome> hey zequence :) you back home?
<zequence> knome, Not yet. Sitting in the bus. Another 20 min or so
<zequence> To reach the city, that is
<knome> okay, but near enough
<zequence> knome, Did you have a nice Friday?
<knome> zequence, yup, we went to see the little mermaid and visited the design museum. apart from those, mostly shopping, eating and drinking
<zequence> knome, hehe, I usually only enjoy the eating and the drinking myself
<knome> well, we had to buy some gifts/souvenirs for SO's
<knome> i didn't find any in the city though, so i resorted to the airport selection
<contrapunctus> knome, SO's?
<knome> contrapunctus, special others, for me my wife and for her, fiancee
<contrapunctus> Oh. Lol. :)
<knome> her being elizabeth, who i did the tourist stuff with
<zequence> Well, nearly there. Time to log off again
<knome> see you
<contrapunctus> Ciao zequence.
 * astraljava thinks the term is 'significant other'.
 * knome doesn't think it matters as long as he brings gifts to her
<knome> and hey astraljava 
 * contrapunctus thinks that was just what I was thinking when knome mentioned it, astraljava
<astraljava> Heh, yeah.
<astraljava> And was she approving?
<knome> yeah.
<zequence> Anyone done a Windows system recovery from the recovery partition, but the second partition was not set up with the ntfs file system?
<zequence> I hate this..
 * contrapunctus hasn't used Windows since about a few years now.
<zequence> contrapunctus: Well, you aren't alone in that
<contrapunctus> although /me still has Win7 installed, gathering dust.
<contrapunctus> Darn.
<contrapunctus> Fail.
<len-dt> I have many windows in my house, but the format was set when the house was built...
<astraljava> Soo... not NTFS?
<zequence> The age of windows is over. we now use doors
<len-dt> I have some of those too.
<zequence> astraljava: I installed Linux on the C:\ partition. Now, I'd like to revert it back to Windows
<astraljava> Now you're just showing off.
<astraljava> zequence: I have no idea, but maybe you can move the HDD to another box, and have the windows disk utility re-format that partition?
<zequence> I guess I just need to learn how to do partitioning and formatting with Windows commands
<zequence> I could use an install CD too, but arghh..
<ScottL> zequence: i abosultely want to work with ttoine and others to setup a framework where everyone can participate
<astraljava> I feel your pain, bro.
<ScottL> obviously i don't think having _everyone_ involved in PR is a good thing, however ;)
<ScottL> but a small group that is active is certainly desirable
<astraljava> Yep, like me, for instance. :)
<zequence> ScottL: Hehe. Well, I'm thinking not everyone will be in the end. And I know you are up for it. I just want to see some action from the other guys too
<ScottL> i really would also like to see about seeing what plugins are available and also _can_ be installed to push our news to twitter/facebook/ etc
<zequence> Right
<ScottL> zequence: agreed. it will be interesting to see who is still pushing news in 6 months ;P
<len-dt> Or two.
<ScottL> len-dt: hehe
<ScottL> afk again with the family, i'll be doing stuff later tonight though
<len-dt> Last cycle was not overflowing with people :)
<zequence> Yea, let's try to change that for this cycle
<len-dt> As long as some things get done at some part of the cycle that is ok too.
<len-dt> I think The better our product the more interest there is.
<contrapunctus> Hey fols
<contrapunctus> *folks
<zequence> We just need to communicate better, I think. And reach out to the right communities
<contrapunctus> Do your families use Linux as well? O_o
<zequence> There's room for a lot of improvement in many areas
<len-dt> Also it seems there are getting to be less audio distros being maintained.
<len-dt> zequence, Always, always.
<zequence> Would be nice to get some graphics/video people in
<len-dt> Ya, I think getting US to the point where those people feel it is worth installing on their production machine is the first step.
<zequence> Ah, yeah. We have jta, and Scottl is also into that. But, we could use some more people giving feedback and ideas
 * len-dt  is not a video/movie person.
<len-dt> I'd rather read a book
<zequence> len-dt: During UDS I realized that all the flavors have more or less the same problem what dev docs are concerned. And, getting more people involved
<len-dt> Some of the modern animation is really good though
<zequence> My suggestion was to create a universal dev doc for the Ubuntu community. I'll be trying to make that happen now
<len-dt> docs are the biggest problem in Linux every where that I can tell.
<zequence> The other step is to get active with the PR
<zequence> len-dt: Also, I talked with David Henningson about the jackd bug
<len-dt> PR :P
<zequence> len-dt: He was working on it about half a year ago. But, only came a bit closer to the solution
<len-dt> I see the need for PR but what attracts me is not interesting to most of the world.
<zequence> len-dt: He told me, that if we do find serious bugs, he's happy to help try to fix them
<zequence> len-dt: We need to tell people what we want
<zequence> In clear terms too
<len-dt> zequence, what is happening on the jackd level? is this not generally a problem with other distros then?
<zequence> len-dt: level?
<len-dt> ya are the jackd devs seeing this problem? or is it a deb/ubuntu problem?
<contrapunctus> len-dt - 'docs are the biggest problem in Linux every where that I can tell.' why?
<len-dt> It is hard work writing docs, Often a lot of programers are not good documenters.
<zequence> len-dt: I guess no one is really wanting to fix it, or not aware of it. That's something we could have done better before. Putting some light on it, and doing bug reports upstream
<zequence> contrapunctus: There's a lot of docs that are outdated too. And not only that - you often have to read between the lines to figure things out
<len-dt> zequence, the kxstudio version is better. It still crashes some times... but I would say 10x less.
<zequence> len-dt: I'm a little clueless to why that would be so. As, I don't think the source is any different
<zequence> Haven't checked when it was last updated, but the package in 12.10 is pretty up to date
<len-dt> I haven't played that much with 12.10 jackd. on my 12.04 I had the kx version though and then had a jack_control stop as a prestop for qjackctl.
<len-dt> I should try the same trick for 12.10
<zequence> I'll be looking into that in the coming week
<len-dt> I think it is better than a killall -9...
<zequence> I never realized David H was from Sweden, btw
<zequence> It's weird when you meet people in person too. Not what you expected at all
<len-dt> text is a funny thing
<zequence> len-dt: If UDS ever comes your way, or you get a chance to be sponsored to go, I highly recommend it
<len-dt> Is it always the same time of year?
<zequence> len-dt: I guess twice a year, just after release time
<zequence> Was never interested before, but since it was so close to home this time I took the chance
<len-dt> It may be a few years before I can... after 2015 I expect to travel a bit more.
<astraljava> Yeah, usually every other time is in American soil.
<contrapunctus> I feel like doing docs...but there's no time, I'm in the 'Linux Audio - create awesome music on Linux and wow people over' department. -_-'
<contrapunctus> Well, night folks, it's 2:40 pm here.
 * len-dt is retiring at the end of 2015 he may do more work after :)
<zequence> contrapunctus: Any links to some of that wowness?
<astraljava> 2:40 pm, and he calls it a night?
<zequence> len-dt: At the age of 65?
<len-dt> 55
<len-dt> At most I would go till 60
<contrapunctus> www.contrapunctus.tumblr.com ...I'm just a student though. Music made with qtractor and qsampler, scores with MuseScore.
<zequence> heh, we're probably going to raise retirement age from 65 to higher around here :(
<contrapunctus> Only one track there atm.
<contrapunctus> ciao folks.
<len-dt> The company I work for has a "bridge" from 55 to 65 (or whenever the gov. pention cuts in).
<zequence> contrapunctus: Cool stuff :)
<contrapunctus> astraljava : erratic sleeping (as well as the resulting erratic eating times) is an invitation for heart failure -.-'
<contrapunctus> Thanks zequence, more to come soon.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-11-04
<len-dt> zequence, pulse-jack seems to have more issues in 12.10... worked better in 12.04
<len-dt> I'll have to do more testing... but in 12.04 I could have pulse playing something direct to alsa and start jack no problem. Now, if I have used pulse to play something at all it doesn't seem to wish to give up the alsa port and jack fails to start.
<len-dt> I seem to have to kill pulse (respawn pulse) and then jack starts. Qjackctl also has to be restarted.
<len-dt> Jacks  problem of being hard to stop is much better though.
<len-dt> I remember getting email that there was a new version of pulse going in...
<len-dt> zequence, it seems ok with any quick check. After a login it is fine. 
<len-dt> run a video in firefox and pavucontrol show an alsa plugin container... start jack and the audio quits but jack errors.
<len-dt> Now stop the video and the alsa container is gone, but jack still won't start. pulseaudio --kill and wait for pulse to restart.
<len-dt> now jack will start
<len-dt> nope I had to exit jack first (jack_control exit then jack_control start)
<len-dt> So it seems once pulse has been used for anything, both jack and pulse have to be killed and restarted. (or exited anyway)
<len-dt> Weird, sometimes when PA is killed it resawns without the output port even when jackdbus is stopped. Ahh, the I want that port signal from jack is still there.
<len-dt> Something has gone strange in the dbus connection. I have not had jack fail to stop though.
<len-dt> until I said that..
<zequence> len-dt: I haven't done much testing with that
<zequence> len-dt: Ah, not. The KX version is a lot more updated than the package in Quantal. Actually, the source for Quantal does not seem to have been updated since March
<zequence> I'll try it out
<zequence> If it works well, we should look at what source is available in Debian testing, and do a SRU
<smartboyhw> Hi zequence for which source?
<zequence> smartboyhw: jackd2
<zequence> len-dt: I remember falktx was talking about there being some complications with dependencies, to get it built though
<smartboyhw> zequence, grrr
<smartboyhw> that is bad
<zequence> len-dt: I'm not getting the stop jack error at all right now
<zequence> len-dt: This is on the updated source
<zequence> And from what I can tell, Debian hasn't updated their git tree, probably due to there not being a new jackd version yet
<zequence> So, I'll ask them to update it
<smartboyhw> zequence, good:D
<zequence> len-dt: I mailed debian multimedia team about updating the source. Until then, if you like, do try the kx versions, and see if you can get that one to malfunction
<zequence> len-dt: Just don't update anything else than jackd2
<zequence> smartboyhw: So, we should start looking at what kind of testing we should do
<zequence> smartboyhw: As you know, we don't really need to do a lot of desktop testing. 
<smartboyhw> zequence, OK
<zequence> smartboyhw: I see that you are to test the ubuntu-desktop ISO
<smartboyhw> zequence, where do you see that?......
<zequence> I can see a purpose with testing the xubuntu-desktop in the same fasion
<zequence> fashion
<zequence> smartboyhw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Cadence
<smartboyhw> zequence, I am planning that. Cadence testing is quite good for us
<zequence> smartboyhw: The type of testing that is important for Ubuntu Studio is multimedia focused
<zequence> smartboyhw: As you are interested in doing testing, I advice you to continue with Ubuntu and add Xubuntu to the mix
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah I do agree. Workflow testing...
<zequence> smartboyhw: Have you talked with Xubuntu about this?
<smartboyhw> zequence, please contact knome and elfy in #xubuntu-devel. I am NOT their QA lead;P
<zequence> smartboyhw: Doesn't matter who is lead. If you want to help them with testing, just let them know
<smartboyhw> zequence, I think they do know:D
<zequence> smartboyhw: Ok, good
<zequence> smartboyhw: I don't think we need testing every two weeks actually. It has to do with if we had any changes to our packages
<smartboyhw> zequence, 1 month is better for us I think though
<zequence> 1 month sounds good
<zequence> smartboyhw: We should probably test only those packages that were changed
<zequence> I can look into getting a list of those, using a script
<smartboyhw> zequence, yes. So we can test the packages....
<zequence> Like, if Blender was updated, we should test it. If pulseaudio was updated, we need to test PA and jack
<zequence> If alsa was updated, we need to test PA and jack, and so forth
<zequence> Dependency based
<smartboyhw> zequence, hmm....Maybe then we have to subscribe to their latest updates then
<zequence> We don't usually test all the multimedia packages. Would be good to start doing that, and report bugs upstream when we find them
<zequence> smartboyhw: raring-changes
<zequence> Use "subscribe" as subject, and send to raring-changes-request@lists.ubuntu.com
<zequence> I'll see about using some sort of script to compare packages against a list, and if there were changes, make a new list for testers
<smartboyhw> zequence, ok
<smartboyhw> zequence, no such list
<smartboyhw> Should be raring-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> But that is the mail
<smartboyhw> Hmm
<contrapunctus> zequence?
<zequence> smartboyhw_: When you want to subscribe or unsubscribe, you just add -request to any of the lists
<zequence> smartboyhw_: Then, either "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" as subject
<smartboyhw_> Ah OK. But then not ALL people want to subscribe to the list right?
<smartboyhw_> zequence, ^
<zequence> smartboyhw_: It may be enough if I do it, if I'm to create the diffs
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah maybe only you should subscribe to it. 
<zequence> astraljava: Actually, I think it might be better to change the mail lists to ubuntustudio-*, as everything else is named using that convention
<zequence> All the metas, mail lists, and irc channels
<zequence> Also, the home page
<zequence> And wikis
<zequence> Allthough, the wikis use camel
<zequence> All the mail lists, except for the two, -devel and -user
<smartboyhw> zequence, can you do this merge? https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.raring/+merge/132705 
<smartboyhw> Just fixing a bug reported
<smartboyhw> BTW I think that yes we can use the ubuntustudio-users and ubuntustudio-devel name convention
<zequence> smartboyhw: I'm not able to right now, since my accounts haven't merged yet. 
<smartboyhw> zequence, ah sorry:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: didn't receive any mail about it either because of that I guess
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<smartboyhw> len-dt, maybe?
<astraljava> zequence: Well the thing was that back in the day IRCC wanted to rename our channels #ubuntu-studio-*, but it never happened. TBH, I don't care, but it just became a joke, that's apparently not funny anymore.
<zequence> astraljava: Oh, ok :)
 * smartboyhw finds his home wi-fi connection today very bad
<smartboyhw> zequence, that is quick on reacting:P
<knome> astraljava, i can poke Tm_T about that if you want it done
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes. I realized this is something very useful on Ubuntu Studio
<astraljava> Ugh... How many times must I say it; I. Don't. Care. It was just a joke, that makes nobody laugh anymore. :D
<knome> right'o
 * smartboyhw now has absolutely all Ubuntu Studio packages of 10.04.4 LTS, 11.10, 12.04.1 LTS and 12.10 in his PPAs.
<micahg> smartboyhw: what Ubuntu studio packages?
<smartboyhw> micahg, for example in https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/+archive/ubuntustudio
<smartboyhw> -controls, -default-settings, -icon-theme, -lightdm-theme, -look, -meta, -sounds
<micahg> smartboyhw: I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish duplicating what's in teh archive already
<smartboyhw> micahg, for fun:P
 * smartboyhw thinks he has the right to have fun
 * micahg wonders why wasting shared resources is called "fun"
<smartboyhw> micahg, then I am going to package the things that hasn't yet been in the archive. 
<micahg> smartboyhw: the PPAs build based on what's in the archive
<smartboyhw> micahg, "going to" means I am going to build things soon (probably tomorrow) based on the code in the ~ubuntustudio-dev instead
<len-dt> zequence, The problem I was having last night, I would guess is a pulse problem, not jack. Though it could be a dbus problem I guess
<len-dt> zequence, it seems to me there was a new version of pulse in Q
<zequence> len-dt: Did you try with more than one device, making sure pulse was not set to use the device you were to start jack with?
<len-dt> zequence, when jackdbus starts it sends a dbus message to release the device it wants to use. In the past pulse has honoured that.
<zequence> len-dt: I've found that to be a little unreliable now and then, but haven't had the time or energy to look more into it
<len-dt> in 12.04 i could start jack on the same device that pulse was sending a stream to and jack would get it
<len-dt> the pulse stream would stop untill I changed the device to jack sink. It was very reliable.
<len-dt> now it never works.
<zequence> len-dt: Well, I've had the PA sink fail, and jack start fail, and all of the sorts
<zequence> len-dt: But, not initially
<zequence> len-dt: Usually after some usage. starting and stopping jack
<len-dt> zequence, I guess I need to understand how the dbus port release works.
<zequence> And after some failures, etc
<len-dt> zequence, the bug with jack failing to stop seems to be mostly gone now. It only seems to happen once in 20 or 30 stops.
<zequence> len-dt: With the kx version of jackd2?
<len-dt> I started and stopped jack maybe 50 times yesterday and it only happened once
<len-dt> stock 12.10
<zequence> len-dt: Well, it's not like that for me :)
<zequence> len-dt: I think jackd2 hasn't been updated at all since precise
<zequence> I tried the kx version, and it was working fine, so far
<zequence> As I explained earlier, the kx version has quite recent updates
<zequence> ..er
<zequence> Actually, I haven't been able to verify how recent
<len-dt> I have that on my 12.04 disk and it has worked well for me too
<len-dt> zequence, 3 or 4 months ago.
<zequence> len-dt: Anyway, I'm working on updating it now
<zequence> I'd like to have falktx help me a bit. His changelog suggests his source is from 2011, which it of course is not
<zequence> The upstream changelog, that is
<zequence> For the orig source
<len-dt> I think it probably is, but he has patched against that.
<zequence> Ah, hmm :)
<zequence> This whole jackd thing is a mess now
<zequence> We really should get it right soonish
<len-dt> I think that jackutils has been updated in ours too... twice. because a bug that was in kx showed up in ours and got fixed :)
<len-dt> That is jack_control stopped working and got fixed.
<len-dt> I remember bugging falktx about it.
<zequence> Yea, the syntax error
<zequence> There was a missing symbol in the python file
<len-dt> Ya.
<len-dt> zequence, so there are three packages that effect PA-jack stuff for us PA, jackd and dbus.
<len-dt> We should be watching the three for changes and test.
<len-dt> I got an email early in Q that there was a new PA to test. Guess we didn't test it well enough.
<zequence> Trying to remove libjack* and it tells me it's going to remove stuff like: account-plugin-aim
<zequence> ffmpeg
<zequence> ubuntu-gnome-desktop
<zequence> I'm a little confused now
<len-dt> libjack must has a replaces in it.
<zequence> len-dt: Sure, but those things aren't depending on libjack*
<len-dt> zequence, such fun..
<zequence> len-dt: libjack-jackd2-0 seems to have a bit of rdepends
<len-dt> zequence, it is stuff like that that give me a high regard for falktx. his packages seem to fit in seamlessly.
<zequence> len-dt: Eh, I kind of see a lot of his work as skotch tape kind of solutions
<zequence> Shortcuts, wherever you may find them..
<zequence> Would be better he was working with Debian Multimedia, instead of just tweaking stuff on his own ppa IMO
<zequence> Though he has nice ideas, and does a lot of hard work for it
<zequence> len-dt: Ok, so I reverted back to the stock jackd2 on quantal. Started jackdbus. No PA sink. After two stops, jackdbus failed to quit
<len-dt> Sometimes a patch for now is better than nothing.
<len-dt> I wonder in 64 bit and 32 are different.
<zequence> len-dt: Ok, so I got the source of jackd2 for Precise. It's basically the same jackd2 that falktx has, except falktx added the patch. orig source last updated in 2011
<zequence> len-dt: While the quantal orig source was last updated march 2012
<zequence> len-dt: So, what I'm going to do is make sure Debian updates their source to last commit. They will upload to Debian Experimental. Then, we sync from there. Do SRU on both 12.04 and 12.10
<zequence> len-dt: Problem is, it'll get complicated
<len-dt> I would test in R first if we start getting ISOs
<zequence> falktx mentioned problems with building
<zequence> len-dt: Sure. We can do that.
<len-dt> Right now (for me) things work better in 12.04 than in 12.10.
<len-dt> Right now in 12.10 if I am playing a stream through hw:1 and start jack to use hw:1, jack fails every time.
<len-dt> I have to restart both pa and jack to be able to use jack at all after that.
<zequence> len-dt: Why don't you make a bug report about the PA jack problem. David H would probably help
<len-dt> in 12.04 I could do that with no problem
<len-dt> I can do that.
<micahg> len-dt: if it's a regression, you can tag it regression-release with the release name and I can create a task for it
<len-dt> Ok, it will be later in the day though.
 * len-dt has a gig to ready for.
<len-dt> bye all.
<ttoine> hi
<zequence> ttoine: Hello
<ttoine> zequence, what is the problem of Len ? I tried to redo it, and all is right for me on 12.10
<zequence> ttoine: Are you using only one device? 
<ttoine> no
<ttoine> but I can test
<ttoine> zequence, the problem is only when using one device ,
<ttoine> ?
<zequence> ttoine: Don't know. Haven't tried myself
<ttoine> if he doesn't use the dbus option, a problem can happend
<ttoine> happen
<zequence> Right now I tried it. jackdbus grabbed the card, and PA released, even though it was using it for playing audio
<zequence> But, no PA sink and source 
<zequence> So, I need to restart PA, cause not all is working as should
<zequence> Something with dbus is not working right
<ttoine> did you install the pulseaudio-module-jack ?
<zequence> ttoine: Yes, of course
<ttoine> very strange. in 12.04 and in 12.10, all is working very fine on my workstation and laptop
<ttoine> with one sound card, or two
<zequence> Sometimes jack won't start at all. Sometimes no PA bridge. I have this happening too
<zequence> But, restarting everything fixes it for me
<zequence> I don't get errors after a fresh login
<ttoine> wow...
<zequence> I do use two devices. So, I seldom try using the same device for both jack and PA
<ttoine> the only problem I have is that before starting jack on my firewire sound card, I need to wait half a minute or it won't work. I mean that I can't start Jack at session loging
<zequence> Really?
<zequence> My firewire device is weird in another way
<zequence> I have to turn it on first, then plug the cord in. Otherwise jack won't start
<zequence> If I plug the cord in, then start the device. jack fails
<zequence> But, my device is slighlty experimental still
<ttoine> what device you have ?
<persia> zequence: HAve you compared the dmesg output between those two cases?  There might be a discovery issue (although this could be on either side, not necessarily the host)
<zequence> focusrite sapphire pro 40
<ttoine> oh yes, not fully supported
<persia> How different is that from the LE?
<ttoine> I have a small Echo Audiofire 2. Full support ! and it rocks
<zequence> persia: Haven't compared dmesg, no. 
<zequence> I get really nice performance from mine, so I'm pretty happy too
<zequence> persia: I guess the LE is quite different. pro 24 and pro 40 might be similar though
<persia> In that case, no testing on my part can help discover the issue :)
<ttoine> oh
<ttoine> zequence, persia I think about a point. I use the jack package from KXstudio repositories
<ttoine> not from Ubuntu
<zequence> ttoine: Yeah. It's the same version as on Precise, but with a patch. This patch is more recent than what jackd2 has on Quantal
<ttoine> so perhaps it makes the difference ? falktx provide great packages, for 32bits. it is sometimes less stable for 64bits
<zequence> ttoine: But, it may also be related to the version of pulseaudio
<zequence> ttoine: It's the same packages as for Ubuntu, only he keeps the original source more up to date. In this case, with jackd2, he had to work a bit more
<zequence> ttoine: Of course, he might be changing some compile options now that I think of it
<zequence> enabling vst, and things like that
<zequence> never mind. It's not better, just not exactly the same.
<ttoine> ok
<zequence> ttoine: jackd2 in kxstudio ppa fixes, or at least mostly fixes a bug which we have still on Quantal - jackdbus not quitting properly
<zequence> That's why he has the patch
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> jackdbus from kxstudio works well
<ttoine> zequence, is it possible to have this patch in ubuntu ?
<zequence> ttoine: I'm just in the process of trying to get the Debian source updated, so that we can get it to Raring. Then, I'd like to do a SRU on both 12.10 and 12.04 to get it there also, but it may be a bit complicated, as it seemed like building the newer jackd was not all that straight forward at least on Precise
<ttoine> zequence, and for Q ?
<zequence> ttoine: Remains to be seen (if you were referring to building it)
<persia> For quantal, it likely needs to be cherrypicked: backports are unlikely to accept it, given the number of rdepends.
<persia> (and the particular patch to be cherrypicked is not obvious from the kxstudio package content)
<zequence> persia: No, I'd have to talk with falktx about that. He got it from nedko, I think
<ttoine> cherrypicked ?
<persia> If it doesn't break ABI, SRU shoudn't be that hard.
<persia> ttoine: pulling the particular patch from the new upstream, and porting that to the git snapshot we're shipping.
<zequence> persia: So, maybe just the patch would be preferrable on the older releases
<persia> zequence: Very much so, yes.  Because the jack2 source package provides libraries, the backports team will likely reject it, and new upstreams require TB approval for SRUs.
<zequence> persia: TB?
<persia> If the patch fixes a known bug which causes significant user annoyance, applying the patch to current shipping sources can be an SRU.
<ttoine> persia, and what about jackdmp ?
<persia> Technical Board.
<zequence> ttoine: jackdmp is a part of the jackd2 package
<persia> ttoine: Same rules apply, but I have insufficient context to say anything in detail.
 * jussi prods persia to look at PM
<ttoine> Sometimes, I think it is too bad that we just can"t put the packages in KXstudio in our Ubuntu Studio...
<ttoine> I mean, with an option at install, or something like that
<zequence> ttoine: It's not totally out of the question, if falktx started working on getting some of that into Debian
<persia> ttoine: Most of it can be done: the main issues are scheduling (kxstudio doesn't have the same freezes), and timing (kxstudio sometimes pushes things well after our release)
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> and perhapt he will not see us take the "bravo" for his work
<ttoine> he want not
<persia> Needs discussion with falktx.  We've had such discussions before, but they usually ended in confusion, rather than resolution.
<ttoine> I think that most of us use his repositories
<ttoine> and it would be great to make it available for our user, in an easy way. At least for audio users
<zequence> ttoine: There has been talk about creating a PPA for Ubuntu Studio, where we could put extra packages, not found in the main repo. But, it would defeat the purpose of being an official flavor of Ubuntu, if we'd start updating software in a PPA
<persia> Especially since it's not actually hard to update stuff in Ubuntu: we just never bother much (which is part of why I've argued against a PPA whenever it comes up: I never understood where we'd get the motivation to keep a PPA active when we don't do so with the regular repos)
<ttoine> zequence, is it possible to add a "activate kxstudio repositories" in Ubuntu Studio Controls (or whatever name it will be) ?
<zequence> ttoine: No. For reasons just stated :)
<persia> ttoine: The better solutions are either a) to work with falktx to land his work directly in Ubuntu Studio, or b) have someone act as liason to kxstudio, and help ensure all the stuff which can be in Ubuntu also lands there.
<persia> (feel free to volunteer for b) if you like)
<zequence> Also, I'm not entirely sure such applications as linux-sampler can not be included in some repos, like a non-free repo
<persia> That particular case is special: most stuff can be in multiverse, but there needs to be resolution of the GPL+non-commercial conflict for linuxsampler before it can be shipped.
<persia> My understanding from what I have read is that anyone who has a patch in linuxsampler is currently able to sue any distributor, which doesn't make distributors feel safe.
<knome> 20:56  Unit193: [13:54:12] apm1 (~apm@unaffiliated/apm1) has quit (Quit: 
<knome> hmm? sorry.
<zequence> Like a GPL Porcupine
<persia> heh, that's a wonderful simile :)
<ttoine> or a CC-by-sa-nc
<persia> ttoine: Except, cc-by-sa-nc is self-consistent.  The issue being that GPL doesn't allow additional restrictions, and NC is an additional restriction.
<persia> Mind you, my information is old: maybe someone fixed thngs whilst I wasn't paying attention.
<ttoine> a lot of users use linux sampler ?
<persia> There's a fair number.  It is widely requested.
<zequence> ttoine: do you know any other sampler that can play gig files?
<zequence> It's actually very nice on Windows too
<zequence> I just tried it as a vst instrument on Cubase a couple of weeks ago
<persia> zequence: Isn't there a commercial product from which gig files originate, or has that become obsolete?
<zequence> persia: Not sure. I guess there was that Giga Studio, or Giga Sampler, or something like that
<persia> That sort of name seems familiar, although I also can't remember which is correct.  Perhaps both, as part of some series.
<ttoine> it was a technology by tascam. but where to find who is the owner nowadays...
<ttoine> it is the same kind of problem than VST : a bit of restricted technologies inside a lot of stuff wich could be gplised
<persia> Actually, not at all.  There's nothing restricted at all, and for many years, it was GPL.  There was a maintainer change, and a new license statement of GPL+non-commercial, leading to it being dropped by all the distros.
<ttoine> ok
<persia> Someone sufficiently motivated could probably dig up an old GPL release and re-implement the newer stuff, but nobody has done that.
<ttoine> like for cinepaint, so
<ttoine> or gcd master
<persia> That said, my opinion about the right solution for linuxsampler depends on the closed-source stuff: if gig files are still widely used by other software (in-box or out-of-box-embedded), then it ought get fixed.  If not, then it doesn't matter.
<ttoine> in the kxstudio repos, I see that there are some LV2 samplers. I don't use virtual instruments, but if one of you does, can he try that ?
<persia> Kinda: basically license confusion making it hard to distribute.  I'm not sure why folk do that: GPL+copyright assignment+commercial licensing terms gets nearly all the same benefits without the penalties.
<ttoine> like for mysql ?
<persia> Yep.
<ttoine> is there a commercial version of linuxsample, since ?
<ttoine> zequence, are you using samplers and virtual instruments ?
<persia> Last I checked, there was a note somewhere that said that folk interested in commercial use could contact someone for alternate licensing, but I don't remember the details, and I've never heard of anyone doing so.
<ttoine> so it is a lost project at the moment...
<zequence> ttoine: I do use samplers sometimes. linux-sampler is one of a kind on a Linux system. There's probably others, but nothing equally advanced. It can play both gig and sfz files
<ttoine> zequence, can you have a look at the LV2 samplers in kxstudio repos ?
<zequence> ttoine: Perhaps you are referring to the one rnbc released not so long ago?
<zequence> rncbc*
<zequence> I don't use a lot of stuff myself anymore. Mostly puredata. I'm also working on my own sampler at the moment
<zequence> ..also in puredata (which is not very good for that)
<persia> DIgging through the repos, it seems we have specimen and sooperlooper (both a bit specialised), and all the infrastructure for linuxsampler (libraries, interface, etc.), but not the actual sampler itself.
<ttoine> hum. composite is a fork of hydrogen and manage only hydrogen kits
<zequence> persia: Yea. Everything but the actual linux-sampler server is standard GPL
<ttoine> and would it be possible to contact the dev of linux sampler ?
<zequence> Here's their faq page http://www.linuxsampler.org/faq.html
<ttoine> yes, I am on too
<ttoine> it is not very clear
<zequence> http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html#exception
<zequence> I don't think Debian could be considered commercial?
<zequence> And in the case of Ubuntu, I can't really tell. But, since one can always get permission..
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> zequence, can you contact them ?
<zequence> First step would be to get it into Debian. There is a  request for that
<ttoine> or I can do it ?
<zequence> Someone just needs to package it, and get it uploaded
<ttoine> it is very strange that the linuxsampler dev don't do it...
<zequence> ttoine: It's not always the developers themselves who package their software. Debian Multimedia Team consists of a group of people who share this job for a range of multimedia packages in Debian
<zequence> ttoine: If you look at who maintains the packages for Ubuntu, for a lot of them you'll find: Original-Maintainer: Debian Multimedia Maintainers <pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<ttoine> ok
<persia> It was in both Debian and Ubuntu for a long time, before the clarification of the license by upstream, when it was removed for both because GPL+non-commercial wasn't something we could distribute.
<persia> It's extra tricky because both Debian and Ubuntu require that the licensing not be specific to Debian or Ubuntu, so written permission to use in Debian or Ubuntu won't help.
<len-dt> makes sense.
<len-dt> Both repos are designed to be used outside their own distros.
<zequence> I still think Debian should not be affected. They have a non-free repo for things like proprietary drivers after all
<len-dt> zequence, I wonder if it came with a licence box and an "I accept" button like the wine MS fonts?
<len-dt> wine is on the Ubuntu servers and auto loads the fonts after being accepted after all. I don't know where the fonts them selves come from though.
<zequence> len-dt: I think in the case of MS fonts, you get that cause not that whole package has that license, only MS fonts
<len-dt> OK, but the fonts are a package. LS is a package. That package could come with a licence screen.
<zequence> len-dt: YOu mean ttf-mscorefonts-installer?
<ttoine> for some java packages, there was an EULA to accepts, too
<ttoine> perhaps it could solve the proble
<ttoine> problem
<len-dt> back in a bit..
 * len-dt is eating lunch
<zequence> I suppose all packages called *-installer will download from a url. 
<zequence> ttf-mscorefonts-installer gets the fonts from http://downloads.sourceforge.net/corefonts/
<zequence> This is the url for flash-plugin-installer: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_11.2.202.243.orig.tar.gz
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> perhaps we can do the same for linux-sampler
<ttoine> I tried to do something like that with VST, a fex years ago. But Steinberg required the email of users, like when downloading from their website
<zequence> A linux-sampler-installer would also be a linux-sampler-builder, I think. Seems like a weird solution, but if nothing else works, and that would, then why not
<zequence> It's a bit more complicated
<zequence> Needs build tools, and dev libs
<ttoine> yes
<ttoine> or perhaps the dev could provide compiled versions for 32 and 64 bits, so we can dowload them ?
<zequence> Unless someone is willing to add *.deb packages somewhere, like their own website
<ttoine> zequence, it will be only one package ? or a lot ?
<zequence> ttoine: One for each arch, and release
<zequence> At least arch
<micahg> I would want something like that in Debian Multimedia if it's feasible
<micahg> (i.e. not just in Ubuntu)
<zequence> Absolutely
<ttoine> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=linux+sampler
<ttoine> is it possible that -installer package download from launchpad PPA ?
<zequence> I would prefer the linux-sampler home url
<ttoine> yes
<micahg> -installer packages can't install debs
<zequence> micahg: Why not?
<micahg> maintainer scripts can't call dpkg
<zequence> micahg: How much different would it be to just pack it in a tar file, and unpack it?
<zequence> I mean, download a tar of the compiled files, and unpack it into the system
<zequence> Sort of like installing a deb
<micahg> zequence: that would mean it would have to be pre-built
<zequence> micahg: Yea
<micahg> and I don't think we'd want an installer installing binaries built by untrusted sources
<micahg> anyways, I'm still not sure why it hasn't been packaged in at least Debian non-free
<micahg> debian 561443 offers no hints either
<ubottu> Debian bug 561443 in wnpp "RFP: linuxsampler -- realtime audio sampler" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/561443
<zequence> Judging from that it's like someone lost interest
<zequence> Yea, installing debs from a non distro url is not the way to do it. And besides, if they did put up debs on their website, it would just be a matter of downloading and installing manually
<zequence> I'm getting tired apparently (forgetting why there is a system for uploading and maintaining packages for Debian). Time to log off
<ttoine> good night.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-28
<OvenWerks> Wow, we are a noisy lot aren't we :)
<knome> definitely!
<zequence> Yep!
<knome> congrats for the saucy release!
<zequence> We probably need to do a re-release
<knome> aha?
<zequence> knome: Doesn't boot in UEFI systems after installation
<zequence> on*
<knome> oops. :)
<zequence> Same for Kubuntu
<knome> ehh.
<knome> that sucks.
<zequence> Not sure if everything is fixed now. But once it is, we need to respin the image anyhow
<knome> mm
<OvenWerks> I thought we got a fix in for that
<zequence> Where is it? I haven't been following
<OvenWerks> We took out the "ubuntuStudio"
<zequence> Yes, in the trusty source. Not sure it was accepted and uploaded yet, or if the fix was done somewhere else
<zequence> I'll have a look later. Gonna do some kernel SRUs first
<knome> i think i've seen the offending part of code as well
<OvenWerks> I think it got through. I sould do a new dl and see.
<zequence> A new download of what?
<OvenWerks> 13.10
<zequence> It hasn't been respun yet
<zequence> It's the same image as before
<OvenWerks> I don't know that I even have release
<zequence> Latest image is from October 16th. We need to ask for a respin, once someone checked all the details of the two packages involved
<zequence> grub, and our -default-settings
<OvenWerks> Ah
<OvenWerks> Ok, Off to work now though
<zequence> see ya
<zequence> ttoine: Hi. I noticed the second cup is still available at the shop. Since the problem doesn't seem to have been solved, I'd prefer if it was taken out until spreadshirt can confirm it is ok to use that product
<ttoine> ok
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-10-31
<holstein> !sound
<ubottu> If you're having problems with sound, click the Volume applet, then Sound Preferences, and check your Volume, Hardware, Input, and Output settings.  If that fails, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sound - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting - http://alsa.opensrc.org/DmixPlugin - For playing audio files,  see !players and !mp3.
<OvenWerks> holstein: thankyou for your patience.... I would have said something to the effect of: there are no computer audio systems that do not require setup. I don't care if they have a fruit or a wavey flag on them. The nice thing about linux is the settings(and access to the errors of a badly setup system) are not hidden.
<holstein> OvenWerks: well, i might have went over the edge
<holstein> OvenWerks:  but, he wasnt even using the os.. thats odd
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-01
<zequence> Patience is in deed a respectful quality
<zequence> respectable*
<holstein> i felt like he was starting like "since ardour is a POS, i need something better" and looking for alternatives
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-11-02
<holstein> !info tigervnc
<ubottu> Package tigervnc does not exist in saucy
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-10-29
<DalekSec> zequence: Geez, how do you even process pkg-multimedia-maintainers list?
<zequence> DalekSec: Filters :)
<DalekSec> zequence: ...You're not subbed to -commits, are you? 0_o
<zequence> I am, but I don't follow it much. It's a good way to keep track of what is happening to the packages though
<DalekSec> Heh, think KGB-* in -multimedia is a nicer way, for me.
<DalekSec> Though, I have few of interest.
 * DalekSec spammed zequence recently, then.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-11-02
<_tuter> Hi, I was wondering how I can contribute my time to the Ubuntu Studio Developement? I am not a coder or anything special like that, but I would love to help in anyway I can.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-26
<zequence> astraljava: OvenWerks: (and anyone else who would like to help out) - I just posted a call for contributors on the mail list. If you would like to help out, you may either answer there or let me know here
<zequence> Are you guys going to be much available the next 6 months?
<astraljava> zequence: Unfortunately I can't promise anything. I'm laid off at the moment, desperately looking for work and possibilities for relocationing. Might be very tough to dedicate time for projects outside of that scope.
<zequence> Sounds stressful, but also like you might have some free time :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Sorry, I sometimes write your first name as Oven, which I never do by purpose
<zequence> I have a sort of strange relation to words - it's not my favorite means of expression.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-27
<OvenWerks> zequence: if we can get the new seeds up soon and redo the two changes I did too late last cycle that would be good.
<OvenWerks> I would like to look at replacing our -desktop with xubuntu's early on. Adding anything they miss with a -utilities meta.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I should have some time, yes.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have been working with mutli-audio interfaces with jack at the same time. My wife's computer is set up that way with the internal for output and USB for input. It has been pretty solid, but timing has been an issue (she has kubuntu and it is set to restart things that were running from the last session... skype has issues with my script bouncing PA on it's head :)
<OvenWerks> I think I need to make sure PA has settled before I start jack so I don't have to restart PA.
<OvenWerks> zita-a2j/j2a does not handle buffer changes (latency changes) well. Fons has a unique coding style :)
<OvenWerks> I may be able to make an app that detects buffer changes and restarts zita* in that case. The zita* tools are designed for jack1 in the same way as all Fons plugins are LV1 and any that are ported to lv2 were don by someone else.
<OvenWerks> If I do come up with such a beast, it will not be a Studio only app. I will have it on my github site as well. I will try to do the package in such a way debian can pick it up.
<OvenWerks> Linux audio is changing, There are very few PCIe AIs around, almost everything is USB. AoIP may be next.
<OvenWerks> good or bad, people "expect" to be able to use a USB mic and internal audio.
<OvenWerks> I will also take another try at packaging carla.
<OvenWerks> Someone has done some experimentation with more than one PA-jack bridge at a time. It does work.
<OvenWerks> I would like to come up with a patch bay to replace qjackctl->connections/patchage or whatever that will be able to not just make connections, but also create bridges for those connections first.
<zequence> OvenWerks: Wow, you have a lot of stuff on the drawing board :)
<zequence> I haven't got anywhere with -controls, which I also mean to create an unbranded version of. 
<zequence> Think the unbranded version will be the core, and any Ubuntu Studio specific stuff is done with a patch, or something
<zequence> Hoping to get started on that soon
<zequence> OvenWerks: Maybe check with falktx about the bridge, and see if he is interested in putting that into his connections app?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-30
<sakrecoer_> zequence: i'm down with the PR group. Just realized jimmy sjÃ¶lund sent us a googledoc with a great revision of the PR strategy, back in august
<sakrecoer_> my gmail is a spambox, so i rarly see what is not picked up by the filters...
<zequence> sakrecoer_: Ah, I have forgotten about what jimmy did
<zequence> Do you have the link?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-10-31
<sakrecoer_> yes, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-tOW_iwdgCLBZx9iYUJzj-zghPIPCvk3Dny5albf8tY/edit?usp=sharing_eid
<sakrecoer_> zequence: 
<sakrecoer_> i have to say,the content is good, but i don't like tool. actualy, i like the tool, but i don't like the license. i collaborate with ubuntu, not google.
<sakrecoer_> i wish this kind of effort and work was put in ubuntu wiki, and discussed on the dedicated ubuntu channels
<sakrecoer_> it seems king jimmy already put googledocs in the wiki :)
<sakrecoer_> guys, i'm trying to quit smoking. i've noticed it affects my online output. working on it....
<sakrecoer_> sorry
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-10-31
<chamois> Hello everyone! Sakrecoer I made a first version of the boot logo. http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=108238
<eylul> chamois: this looks very nice. perhaps try a very thin black outline/shadow, or a similar solution around the blue through, to bring the logo more firmly on foreground? (right now, my eyes keep going back and forth as to what is foreground and what is background, which is very distracting :D)
<chamois> Ok eylul I got to go now, I'll work on it
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-01
<sakrecoer> hi!
<eylul> hi :)
<sakrecoer> i think chamois is something on the track, i just wish it was less "universe" and more "cyberverse". and i agree with eylul, its a bit too bright my eyes get a but confused at edge between white and blue
<eylul> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-11-06
<sakrecoer> hi y'all!
<cfhowlett> :)
<sakrecoer> i "finished" setting this up: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-z-ubuntustudio
<sakrecoer> now we need to fill the blueprints up with work
<sakrecoer> this round i added one for PR cfhowlett.
<cfhowlett> !   will read
<sakrecoer> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-z-pr
<sakrecoer> cfhowlett: not much to read yet, but feel free to add all your ideas about art competitions in the whiteboard
<cfhowlett> indeed.
<eylul> sakrecoer: are we going to have a meeting by the way? 
<sakrecoer> eylul: yes, i guess we have to set it up first...
<cfhowlett> what decade was our last meeting??
<eylul> *nods(
<sakrecoer> actauly writing that email atm...
<eylul> cfhowlett: we had a quick one sometime in last cycle. 
<eylul> so we are not TOO bad about it :D
<sakrecoer> haha! cfhowlett, good question... (we did have one in april-ish)
<chamois> Hello everybody! http://pasteall.org/pic/index.php?id=108529 second version
<sakrecoer> hi chamois !
<sakrecoer> the contrast is better! but i'm not too fund of the motive.
<sakrecoer> i like space, and the yours is beautyful. but i think Ubuntu Studio is more into cyberspace than outerspace, if that can be a lead...
<chamois> Yeah, that can help!
<sakrecoer> also, remember that the boot image we are looking for will be rendered in a funky format...
<sakrecoer> so, realy neat fades will become, low-fi gradients...
<chamois> ok!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-11-03
<studio-devel000> HI, i have a question... how can a non-coder contribute to the project?  i  am graphic-designer and 3d generalist... and i want to give back to this project
<studio-devel000> well it seems no one is here, i will back later
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-10-30
<Eickmeyer> Sorry about that fail mail, everyone! I made a typo. :(
<Eickmeyer> Everyone: I'm applying for Ubuntu membership, so if you wouldn't mind, please leave a testimonial here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer
<aleb> Christian Schaller posted an update about the Pipewire hackfest: https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2018/10/30/pipewire-hackfest/
<OvenWerks> seems backwards to me, starting at the desktop end. But I guess more people dislike pulse than I thought
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-28
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's not possible. However, the link might be broken on the blog post. (my bad)
<OvenWerks> Ah ok
<Pixel01> thanks for the attention and for your work you all!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-30
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: The last iso build fail looks like they are trying to find our seeds in the wrong place? or is that a link? 
<OvenWerks> maybe server too busy...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Not sure what happened there. I'll check to see if today's build works. I think something in the build system just had a burp because we didn't change anything.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I hated to do that to DirtyEar, but he's proving to be a help vampire. It's not our issue at all if I can get the app to work and you can too.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: no problem, We were just at the point when I had run out of ideas anyway.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's what I was reading. I had zero issues getting the app to launch. 
<Eickmeyer> Or menus to come up.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-10-31
<wonko> OvenWerks: hey there. Still planning on adding that stuff. Have you made any major changes to controls lately?
<wonko> Also, is there no C language binding for jack? It's not listed on the page.
<OvenWerks> wonko: I have done some more work but it is all in the controls end. I am still looking to have four lists added to the config.
<OvenWerks> wonko: the lists are: pulse bridge names, one list for inputs and one list for outputs
<wonko> Do you want to run with it because you're doing that anyway or should I have a go at it?
<OvenWerks> wonko: the other two lists are connections points. That is where does each bridge get connected to by default at creation.
<OvenWerks> wonko: feel free to look at the autojack end
<wonko> ok
<OvenWerks> wonko: the current number of bridges should be translated at config file read to pulse_in/out and then pulse2_in/out
<OvenWerks> if the pulse_in config is not an int, then it must be a list of names :)
<wonko> Ok, I'll let you know what I come up with. Likely next week though.
<OvenWerks> no hurry, As hit milestones worth publishing I will up load them.
<OvenWerks> wonko: I guess we could start a branch where I could push even little changes. I could then squash before merging
<wonko> oh, duh, jack is written in C. I don't need a language binding. :-D
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> sorry I forgot about that one. Yes I have used jack API in both c and c++
<wonko> that might be a better idea than screwing with master or the nighmare of trying to merge our two branches
<OvenWerks> OK, later today I will push a branch with my latest changes.
<wonko> ok, groovy
<wonko> I don't think i'll get to it today and I'm trying to take tomorrow off (had to work sunday) but I'll hopefully be out in the garage trying to get it sorted. It's still a disaster.
<OvenWerks> in other news it looks like Ardour 6.0 will go Alpha this month and maybe beta by the year end
<wonko> oooh, fancy
<wonko> that's another thing I should really work on
<OvenWerks> I can have people try to break my foldback code.
<OvenWerks> err, well I can spend time fixing the breakages they do find ?
<wonko> ok, jack api looks relatively simple. Now, how hard is qemu audio going to be? :-D
<OvenWerks> jack is much easier than the alsa api
<OvenWerks> which might have something to do with my own SW not working with ALSA
<wonko> I'm thinking the ALSA code in qemu might be a good place to start to see how it all works. Maybe. :)
