#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-26
<godbyk> I knew if I waited long enough to sit down in front of my computer that everyone wanting my help would give up and leave.  Mwuhahaha!
<humphreybc> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> humphreybc: pong.
<godbyk> humphreybc: 'bout time you got online.  have you seen the ubuntu docs mailing list today?
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> ubuntu manual install guide or something
<godbyk> yeah
<humphreybc> sorry i've been busy recording podcast, sleeping, then finding out Joey's end didn't record
<godbyk> no worries.
<godbyk> oh, wow!
<humphreybc> anyway, we're getting pretty close to release
<godbyk> so you have to re-record it all?
<humphreybc> maybe :S
<humphreybc> so how's the cover art going from thorwil?
<humphreybc> and the website stuff?
<godbyk> I haven't heard anything about the website for a while and haven't seen daker online.
 * humphreybc curses 
<godbyk> thorwil's currently fighting with inkscape to get it to convert the cover to a PDF without munging it in the process.
<humphreybc> okay. looks like our review quotes never eventuated, i only got one from jono
<godbyk> 'kay. maybe we'll use those in future editions then.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> we need to get it up on lulu.com asap
<godbyk> I'm still going through and rearranging the margin notes a bit (so they align more nicely).
<godbyk> but I'll be posting it all to lulu.com as soon as I can.
<humphreybc> what's thorwil's email?
<godbyk> humphreybc: t_w_@freenet.de
<humphreybc> ok i just sent an email off to Iain, he should get it tomorrow and hopefully email the SVG straight to thorwil
<humphreybc> for the Ubuntu logo
<godbyk> where do you think it should go on the cover?
<humphreybc> oh I see, some people are actually interested in the installation guide, in a different thread
<humphreybc> have you got the link to the cover design he gave us?
<godbyk> let me look
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/fddac3455a98dbeffde57cd44c163543
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> maybe the bottom left corner, underneath the circle of friends wave
<humphreybc> so it would be the same place as "The Ubuntu Manual Team" but mirrored
<godbyk> I think he's wrestling with the UMP logo.  Inkscape keeps barfing on it.
<humphreybc> heh
<godbyk> So right-aligned on that same line?  Just 'ubuntu*'?
<humphreybc> left aligned
<humphreybc> it'll be on the left side of the back cover
<humphreybc> on the same line as "The Ubuntu Manual Team"
<humphreybc> lined up with the main text on the back
<godbyk> so "The Ubuntu Manual Team" should be right-aligned then?
<humphreybc> yes
<humphreybc> that should stay how it is
<humphreybc> no no
<godbyk> <sigh>
 * godbyk is confused.
<humphreybc> I mean "The Ubuntu Manual Team" wording on the FRONT cover
<godbyk> If you want them on the same line, you either get "Team ... Logo" or "Logo ... Team"
<humphreybc> no no
<humphreybc> dw, i'll slap in a placeholder thing in a minute
<godbyk> Ah.
<godbyk> I see what you mean.
<humphreybc> then I'll email it to thorwil
<godbyk> You want it at the very bottom of the page.
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> I'll let you guys figure out the cover.
<godbyk> (I've got plenty of others details to fret over. :-))
<humphreybc> lol ok
<humphreybc> and if you see daker, he needs to move the site over asap
<humphreybc> and he needs to make sure when that countdown timer hits zero, it switches over to the main front page with download links and big stars and things with links to buy the copy on lulu.com
<godbyk> he also apparently needs to fix the font stack. Ilya says the main font looks really bad under Windows.
<godbyk> further, I don't know if he's created the download tracking scripts and forms yet.
<godbyk> maybe you should email him all this.
<humphreybc> ok
<godbyk> (I haven't seen him in here for a few days.)
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual-print.png
<r2q2> Hello
<r2q2> I'm zitterbewegung on ubuntu-docs
<godbyk> Hey, r2q2. How's it going?
<r2q2> Its going good
<r2q2> Can't wait till 10.04
<humphreybc> only a few days now!
<godbyk> I could use a little more time.  (I'm still tweaking the manual a bit.)
<hemanth> humphreybc, i was a part of first p2pu courses on open web mashups, i gave the like and invited few Mozilla drumbeat team members to Ubuntu manual project, lets see how will they respond :)
<humphreybc> heh nice
 * hemanth whereis ubuntujunkie 
<godbyk> hemanth: he's offline at the moment.
<godbyk> he disappeared about 6 hours ago.
<hemanth> godbyk,ya noticed he was not online, so threw a whereis query ;)
<godbyk> hemanth: he just said, 'night all o/' and went offline.
<godbyk> so he's probably sleeping.
<hemanth> o ok :)
<humphreybc> what does o/ mean?
<hemanth> humphreybc, bye symbol, o=>head, /=>hand, its like waving
<humphreybc> ahh
 * hemanth hands up \o/ lol
<godbyk> Hey, everyone.  Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> Could you give it a final look before I upload it to lulu?
<godbyk> At this point, I'm just fixing minor typos, layout bugs, etc.
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk and everyone else
<godbyk> You showed up just in time. :)
<ubuntujenkins> in time for what?
<godbyk> to help proofread the final draft.
<ubuntujenkins> I have just noticed the rouding is wrond on some of the window buttons
<godbyk> I have no idea what you just said.
<ubuntujenkins> look at page 21 and the minimize button of the first slide  window it should be rounded both sides
<ubuntujenkins> fixing it now
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: aha. I see what you mean.
<godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson.
<ubuntujenkins> hello IlyaHaykinson
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf  Let me know if you notice any final tweaks I need to make.
<godbyk> Identity crisis, IlyaHaykinson_? :)
<IlyaHaykinson_> connection issues
<IlyaHaykinson_> well, no; patching a driver caused my wifi connection to bounce; upon reconnecting, freenode thought the no-underscore account was still around
<godbyk> I'm hoping my connection issues are a thing of the past.  Time will tell.
<IlyaHaykinson_> anyways, i think i found us a researcher
<godbyk> A researcher?
<IlyaHaykinson_> my friend does user research for a living.
<godbyk> Cool.
<IlyaHaykinson_> mainly for UI
<IlyaHaykinson_> but she knows how to run user groups
<IlyaHaykinson_> and basically do qualitative research
<godbyk> right.
<IlyaHaykinson_> and may be able to help us with quantitative too
<godbyk> (I do that sort of thing, too, but I'd probably have to jump through IRB hoops to do anything.)
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: did you get the pdf link?
<IlyaHaykinson_> you work for a college?
<godbyk> I'm a grad student.
<IlyaHaykinson_> ah.
<IlyaHaykinson_> PDF link, no.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf  Let me know if you notice any final tweaks I need to make.
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok, let me review
<godbyk> They get a bit testy about doing studies without prior approval.  And approval takes forever 'cause they're so backlogged.
<godbyk> 'kay.
<IlyaHaykinson_> nod.
<IlyaHaykinson_> question.. what happened to the mozilla docs authors?
<IlyaHaykinson_> we used to have them credited by name.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i think we still need to.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Hmm.. yeah, if they're not there, they should be.
<godbyk> I think that's that list humphreybc gave me a while back.
<godbyk> I think there's a ton of stuff missing from the credits section, frankly.
<IlyaHaykinson_> such as?
<godbyk> Well, I think there are a huge number of translators we need to include at some point.
<godbyk> And I think there's a mechanism for doing it, but it won't be ready for this first edition.
<IlyaHaykinson_> hm, there's no way in the PDF to go to the title page or TOC
<IlyaHaykinson_> i don't think there's anything that we can do here, right?
<IlyaHaykinson_> i see.
<godbyk> Also, I have no idea what material in the manual was written originally for this project and which was lifted from other docs. And I don't know what licenses those other docs may have had, but some may need to be cited.
<IlyaHaykinson_> well, hence the mozilla note
<godbyk> right.
<IlyaHaykinson_> it was a CC-BY-SA 3.0 license
<godbyk> what do you mean there's no way to go to the toc of title page?
<IlyaHaykinson_> i don't think there was a lot of other lifting
<godbyk> I'm hoping there wasn't.
<IlyaHaykinson_> we couldn't lift any GNOME docs because they are GFDL
<IlyaHaykinson_> which is not compatible
<godbyk> right.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i mean in the PDF bookmarks list, there's no shortcut to the title page or TOC
<godbyk> oh, gotcha.
<IlyaHaykinson_> while there is a shortcut for each chapter
<godbyk> I think I can manually add pdf bookmarks. I'll look into it.
<IlyaHaykinson_> and here is one that's weird
<IlyaHaykinson_> on windows, copy/paste into word has issues
<IlyaHaykinson_> digraphs like "ck" show up as a box
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: yeah, I think the digraphs are stored in the private-use area of the typeface and latex isn't storing the decomposed characters in the pdf.
<godbyk> it probably prevents searching for words with ligatures and/or digraphs, too.
<IlyaHaykinson_> yes
<IlyaHaykinson_> i.e. a search for "check" only yields results in the margin, titles, or monospaced font
<godbyk> I'll add that to my list of things to look into for the next edition.
<godbyk> I think there's some low-level fiddling that can be done to help with that, but I've never done it before.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: just pushed rev 811 which has the fixed images in
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/811 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 811
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks, I'll get those merged into my branch and upload a fresh pdf soon.
<ubuntujenkins> kk I am not sure how i missed that before.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you tried the ppa?
<humphreybc> sorry, nope i haven't yet
<ubuntujenkins> I think you will like it :-)
<ubuntujenkins> the name does give it away but still
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc.  Can you check this pdf http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf and make sure I have all the credits right as per your email? Also, did I remove the Mozilla credits or did you? Either way, they need to be in there.
<humphreybc> okay okay
<humphreybc> i'm going to make some dinner in a sec
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: I've added pdf bookmarks for the title page and the TOC.
<godbyk> any others?
<IlyaHaykinson_> i think it looks great!
<IlyaHaykinson_> really proud of this manual
<IlyaHaykinson_> i can definitely see a lot of rough areas, and a lot of fraying around the edges, but it's a heck of a lot closer to a professional book than anything else
<godbyk> yeah. I'm hoping we can clean those rough edges up for the second edition.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i've often considered the concept of a community-written book to be theoretical at best (cf. Wikibooks), but this has turned out to be really great.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_, and ubuntujenkins: I've uploaded a fresh copy of the PDF. Can you check the screenshots and PDF bookmarks?
<IlyaHaykinson_> i'm definitely ordering myself a lulu copy for my bookshelf :)
<godbyk> I think it's worked fairly well.  I think the Maverick will be a cake walk compared to what we've gone through for this first release.
<godbyk> We'll Have the vast majority of the infrastructure in place (and a lot of the text, too).
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: hopefully. though i do think we have a lot of work aftre we do some research
<IlyaHaykinson_> but yes, definitely helpful beyond belief to have the infrastrucutre there
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I don't think the link has updated yet
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: I agree. I want to know what the actual sticking points are for people.
<IlyaHaykinson_> can you move the PDF bookmark above the Contents chapter header?
<IlyaHaykinson_> right now it points below it.
<godbyk> I tried.
<godbyk> If I move it before the header, then it goes to the previous page.
<godbyk> If I get time, I'll dig deeper into the underlying macros and see where the best spot for it is.
<godbyk> But at the level of \tableofcontents, that's the best I can do.
<godbyk> The TOC bookmark name will get translated automatically, but the front cover one won't.
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok, no worries. this is good enough.
<godbyk> I'll have to talk to dutchie and see if we can make a list of random strings for the translators to translate outside of the .tex files.
 * ubuntujenkins now has a new version
<IlyaHaykinson_> besides, we don't really have a lot of translations :)
<godbyk> true.
<godbyk> I'm not worried about the translations at all right now.
<godbyk> I'm just trying to perfect this English version as much as possible before I upload it to lulu.
<IlyaHaykinson_> nod.
<IlyaHaykinson_> should we wait for Lucid to actually drop? just in case they added some last minute change?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: look at page 51 the figure number is covered by a picture
<godbyk> nah.. if they do that, we'll catch it for the second edition.
<godbyk> I think the translators already hate me. :)
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good catch. let me see if I can fix that.
 * godbyk needs a faster computer for compiling this manual.
<IlyaHaykinson_> p66
<IlyaHaykinson_> should we really expose someone's email address here in thde screenshot
<godbyk> probably not.  is it a real account?
<IlyaHaykinson_> yes
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: IlyaHaykinson_ they were suppose to use quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> I need to run be back in 20 mins
<ubuntujenkins> I can do a new one in a few hours as I ahve lectures and stuff
<ubuntujenkins> ]sorry
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok, thanks
<thorwil> morning!
<godbyk> cool. thanks, ubuntujenkins
<godbyk> hey, thorwil!
<godbyk> join the party.
<godbyk> we're going over the final draft of the English edition with a fine-toothed comb before I upload it to lulu.
<godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I fixed the caption overrun bug on page 51.
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: no more problems on my side. at least nothing for lucid-e1 ;-)
<godbyk> 'kay, thanks, IlyaHaykinson_
<IlyaHaykinson_> gonna log for the night. super sleepy.
<godbyk> I'm holding you to it!
<IlyaHaykinson_> l8r!
<IlyaHaykinson_> heh
<godbyk> "IlyaHaykinson_ said it was error-free!"
<godbyk> see ya
<thorwil> godbyk: if i can't drive out this gremlin of an export/rendering bug, i'll have to turn the UM logo into a bitmap for the lulu cover. or drop it entirely
<IlyaHaykinson_> ah, but as long as it's IlyaHaykinson_ then we can just blame any errors on the underscore
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I was going to suggest trying that as a last-resort.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: lol
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok, bye folks. i'll probably have lunch or coffee with my researcher friend, get her to join the group, and then we'll take it from there.
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk, hopefully you can at the very least provide some input into the process since you have experience.
<IlyaHaykinson_> l8r folks
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I ate my breakfast really quick the fix is in lucid-e1
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what fix?
<ubuntujenkins> and ran back from it
<ubuntujenkins> for the screenshot
<godbyk> which screenshot
<godbyk> oh, the email one?
<ubuntujenkins> 03-evolution-enter-password.png page 66 , yep
<godbyk> okay, cool.  I'll pull it across.
<godbyk> I uploaded a new pdf and fixed the overlapping caption/figure if you want to take a look.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you make the caption show underneath and not on top? All the big ones have the caption underneath
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: not when it's aligned on the bottom of the page.
<ubuntujenkins> kk fair enough
<godbyk> technically, of course, the answer is 'yeah, I could do that', but I can't do it using the existing \screenshot command.  it abstracts away the lower-level commands I'd need to pull that off.
<ubuntujenkins> it doen't matter that much i am juts being picky :)
<humphreybc> okay, i'm back
<humphreybc> what do I need to look at?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: there is no facebook evetn for the release
<humphreybc> true
<humphreybc> what else do i need to look at? PPA? godbyk did you have something?
<godbyk> humphreybc: credits
<godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> and, y'know, everything else in the manual.
<humphreybc> lol ok
<godbyk> final editing/tweaks.
<godbyk> I'm going to go bake some cookies, I think.  I'll be back in about 20 minutes or so.
<godbyk> Feel free to leaves messages here of things I need to fix.
<godbyk> I'd like to get all of it wrapped up so I can upload it to hulu.
<humphreybc> godbyk, are we sticking with brick red for hyperlinks? Can we *please* change it to aubergine?
<godbyk> Depends on how it looks in print, I suppose.
<humphreybc> dark aubergine will be fine I think
<ubuntujenkins> I am off to lectures. If anyone wants me please leave me a message and i will  get back asap
<godbyk> humphreybc: go find me the official aubergine color values and I'll see how it looks.
<humphreybc> godbyk, page 98 there is a yellow warning thing which has "Legal Notice Patent and...." I think it should be "Legal Notice: Patent and..."
<godbyk> humphreybc: what chapter is that in?
<humphreybc> Working with Ubuntu, 3
<humphreybc> thorwil, did you get my email?
<godbyk> bah.  I just removed some extra line spacing after the section headings in the credits chapter so I wouldn't have an orphaned section heading.
<godbyk> that made things look nicer, but now it's a different section heading being orphaned.
<godbyk> if humphreybc tells me the credits contain all they're meant to contains, I'll add a manual page break and be done with it.
 * humphreybc checks the credits
<thorwil> humphreybc: yes. you got lucky by putting the logo in a reasonable place. else i would rip you head off now, for daring to step into my field ;P
<humphreybc> thorwil: LOL
<humphreybc> Iain should be emailing you the SVG for the logo in the next couple of hours
<godbyk> thorwil: you should've been in this channel when humphreybc was trying to explain to me where he wanted the logo to go.
<humphreybc> thorwil: do you know the color code for the Aubergine they're using?
<humphreybc> godbyk: can we please bring the developers heading down one line so it's on the next page
<thorwil> humphreybc: no. i think red hyperlinks go better with the orange tones we use on the cover
<godbyk> humphreybc: <sigh> as soon as you give me the okay on all the names and make sure I didn't miss any.
<humphreybc> godbyk: well you pulled it from the text file I sent?
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, but then Ilya said it looked like we had left out the Mozilla/Firefox guys he had in there.
<humphreybc> oh okay
<humphreybc> yeah no add them in
<humphreybc> i wasn't sure if they should have been given credit or not
<godbyk> can you find 'em for me?
<godbyk> I'm going to fix some supper.
<godbyk> I'll be back in about 20 minutes.
<humphreybc> find the names of the firefox people?
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> Not sure where i'd find them
<godbyk> grab an old pdf I s'pose.
<humphreybc> :\
<godbyk> the beta should have 'em.
<humphreybc> ok ok
<godbyk> bbiab
<humphreybc> Firefox people are as follows:
<humphreybc> Chris_Ilias
<humphreybc> Bo
<humphreybc> underpass
<humphreybc> jehurd
<humphreybc> cl58
<humphreybc> kjhass
<humphreybc> djstsys
<humphreybc> mozilla_help_view_project
<humphreybc> thorwil: can we please just get the colour code and try it?
 * humphreybc just pinged Iain Farrell the minute he came on IRC
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: 772953 as used on http://design.canonical.com/
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> humphreybc: and which section do those names belong under?
<humphreybc> thorwil: I just had a chat with Iain, they finalized the draft on Friday, are just working on the logo guidelines now and should have something for us later this AM
<humphreybc> godbyk: Special thanks?
<humphreybc> I am really tempted to just call them "The Firefox Documentation Team" or something, because their screen names are... well.. unprofessional looking
<godbyk> I think you have to cite their names as-is (per CC-BY), but I'm not sure.
<humphreybc> sigh. alright, do that then
<godbyk> rebuilding pdf
<humphreybc> I just rendered the final contributors video
<humphreybc> It's 150mb
<humphreybc> I guess I'll just put it on my server?
<godbyk> humphreybc: you should just upload it directly to my server.
<godbyk> lemme find the ftp info
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> cool
<humphreybc> then you'll need to resize and flashify it
<godbyk> (It takes me too long to download from you and reupload to the server. :-))
<humphreybc> then give it to daker to embed into the contributors page
<godbyk> humphreybc: I emailed you the login info
<humphreybc> ok
<godbyk> send me the specs on size and audio quality.
<godbyk> I'll be right back.
<humphreybc> probably very much the same as the last one we did
<humphreybc> godbyk: please tell me how I do ftp?
<godbyk> back
<godbyk> humphreybc: using any ftp client. :)
<godbyk> I like filezilla.
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> okay
<godbyk> ncftpput also works handily, though.
<humphreybc> I've used Filezilla before, years ago, at school
<godbyk> you can also just use nautilus and drag-and-drop.
<godbyk> Places > Connect to server...
<humphreybc> ..
<humphreybc> that sounds easiest
<godbyk> probably.
<humphreybc> awesome!
<humphreybc> 13 minutes left apparently
<humphreybc> that would be me transferring the wrong file
<humphreybc> just over an hour, that's more realistic haha
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> I was gonna say.
<godbyk> When I'm downloading from you it takes a lot longer than that.
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> back now
<humphreybc> okay what else needs to be done? where's daker?!
<godbyk> humphreybc: the aubergine is too light.
<humphreybc> really?
<godbyk> not sure where daker is.. haven't seen him for a bit.
<godbyk> I've fixed all the bugs people have told me about (so far) in this pdf.
<godbyk> thorwil's busy working away on the cover.
<godbyk> once that's done, we should be ready to upload to lulu.
<godbyk> (I'm going to turn off the color links when I upload to lulu so the b&w printed copy looks nicer.)
<humphreybc> what about the aubergine from this?
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=boot.png
<godbyk> humphreybc: isn't that a gradient?
<godbyk> give me an actual html color code and I'll try.
<humphreybc> if it is, it's a very very faint one
<humphreybc> kk gimme a sec
<humphreybc> it's not a gradient
<humphreybc> solid colour, #1A0512
<humphreybc> you could also try #6e154c
<humphreybc> which is a lot lighter
<godbyk> humphreybc: the 1A0512 is effectively black.
<humphreybc> eyah
<humphreybc> that it is
<godbyk> trying the next one now.
<godbyk> oatmeal chocolate chip cookie bars = awesome
<humphreybc> try #4c0d34
<godbyk> are you just making up colors now? :)
<humphreybc> maybe
<humphreybc> that's what the design team does, there are like a zillion different aubergines and oranges!
<nisshh> humphreybc: should we have a release party for lucid and the manual in here?
<godbyk> the last two aren't very noticeable when reading the pdf, so you may not realize they're links (or even notice the color change).
<nisshh> be fun
<humphreybc> godbyk: even 4c0d34?
<humphreybc> nisshh: we'll probably be busy working around the release!
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah.
<godbyk> we'll have to have a party.. someone has to flip the switch, right?
<humphreybc> godbyk: #991a68 ?
<godbyk> too light, now.
<godbyk> we'll play with aubergine later, perhaps.
<godbyk> when we have some time to run some better tests (instead of just plugging in random values).
<humphreybc> lol okay
<nisshh> humphreybc: its ok, me and godbyk will have our own 2 man party, right godbyk?
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> i'll probably be at work
<humphreybc> like, work where i earn money work
<godbyk> absolutely, nisshh!
<nisshh> pffff, shame really
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> humphreybc: what do you actually do for a living?
<humphreybc> i'm a student, but i work at a video store on friday and saturday nights
<thorwil> that was it, i give up. as soon as i scale the UM logo, the result will be wrong in pdf export. so i will switch to a bitmap now
<nisshh> oh cool, so does my cousin, he earns craploads since hes the senior junior manager
<godbyk> thorwil: think we'll ever get inkscape to stop giving us so much grief?
<thorwil> who knows
<humphreybc> thorwil: https://www.photoshop.com/ ?
<humphreybc> I hear it's quite good
<thorwil> humphreybc: illustrator
<nisshh> humphreybc: please! not that abomination
<godbyk> not photoshop.. illustrator would be a more apropos replacement
<humphreybc> ah, okay
<godbyk> vector graphics ftw!
<humphreybc> is illustrator adobe's vector program?
<thorwil> yes
<nisshh> i prefer inkscape, GIMP and blender for graphics stuff
<godbyk> we like inkscape -- it just fails to export to pdf in a lot of cases.
<thorwil> it's a shame, really. inkscape is quite good, but aside of the lack of gradient meshes, the pdf export is buggy, apparently
<nisshh> big shame
<nisshh> why not contribute some fixes?
<nisshh> like what happened with evince
<godbyk> we haven't had time to look into it yet.
<godbyk> for evince, the fix was already there in the upstream repository. we just had to back-port it.
<godbyk> for inkscape, I don't know think they've fixed the problems yet, so we'd have to familiarize ourselves with the code, find the problem, figure out how to solve it, etc., etc.
<nisshh> godbyk: true
<thorwil> godbyk: what do you think is better/safer: flat bitmap with white ground, or one with alpha transparency?
<thorwil> currently i have it flat
<godbyk> thorwil: probably flat on white.
<godbyk> In case inkscape mucks up the transparency.
<thorwil> nah, i doubt it would much that up. it might fuck it up, though
<godbyk> :)
<thorwil> godbyk: you won't believe it. exported with a bitmap. the head of it gets chopped off in export. evince and gimp are of the same opinion there
<godbyk> wtf
<godbyk> I think inkscape has it out for us.
<humphreybc> hehehe
<thorwil> what i don't understand is how this can go so wrong, while other stuff gets out just fine
<godbyk> I know.
<humphreybc> 8 minutes left on the video upload, godbyk
<nisshh> humphreybc: what video is this?
<humphreybc> the contributors one
<humphreybc> re-rendered it with some fixes
 * humphreybc is making another one too
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> throw us a link when its up
<humphreybc> test.ubuntu-manual.org/contributors :)
<thorwil> godbyk: added vertical padding to the image, now i get an acceptable result
<godbyk> thorwil: so it's pixel-specific?
<thorwil> sidenote: letting gimp render the pdf to 300dpi is faster than opening in evince and zooming in
<thorwil> godbyk: i suspect things go wrong as soon as you scale the bitmap in inkscape. have to create the most basic test files for this and the original issue
<nisshh> humphreybc: whats the difference between them, this one looks exactly the same...
<ubuntujenkins> hello again o/
<humphreybc> nisshh: it's not up yet
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey
<ubuntujenkins> hello nisshh
<nisshh> humphreybc: hehe, you tricked me!
<humphreybc> 50 seconds!
<ubuntujenkins> till what?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: test.ubuntu-manual.org/contributors
<thorwil> bbl
<nisshh> new contrib video
<humphreybc> yeah but it still has to be turned into flash, resized and embedded into the page by daker
<humphreybc> if daker ever comes back
<nisshh> oh really? shame, i was looking forward to seeing the new one
<godbyk> well we can look at it after I convert it to flash.
<nisshh> oooh goodies!
<humphreybc> this WePad looks promising
<ubuntujenkins> I have just seen the pictures as well
 * humphreybc is uploading a third video to youtube 
<ubuntujenkins> i can't wait, do you think ubuntu netbook remix will work on it?
<humphreybc> maybe
<humphreybc> not sure
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: do you have any thoughts on the ppa? I would like to give people options to view it in other pdf views that they have installed and other langauges if they install other langauge packages. I was thinking of making a little program in the ubuntu-manual package then doing a package for each langauge pdf
<ubuntujenkins> *viewers
<humphreybc> i haven't seen the PPA yet
<humphreybc> \link?
<ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins/+archive/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.  03-ubuntu-start-firefox.png is wider than 1024.
<ubuntujenkins> all it does at the moment is give you the pdf. and an icon in the menus
 * ubuntujenkins looks
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: can I try it?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: sure
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: after I get this release stuff out of the way, I can help you write a script to detect the language, download the appropriate pdf, install it, and view it.
<godbyk> Video's up: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/videos/ump-team_640x360.html
<godbyk> We'll have daker drop it into the site whenever he's around next.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: sure we can discuss that later. I will redo that screenshot now
<humphreybc> you've all seen this video before
<humphreybc> i just fixed some bugs
<godbyk> humphreybc: you should really have someone edit your text before you render it to video. :)
<humphreybc> what's wrong with my text?!
<c7p> hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello c7p
<c7p> on the string 1008 https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/1008/+translate
<godbyk> On the second 'slide', I'd use an em dash (or a properly spaced en dash).  It should be '170-page user guide'.
<c7p> it says that the Browse is under the Control menu, but on my rythmbox its under the View
<c7p> do you have browse under the Control menu ?
<godbyk> c7p: I see Browse under the View menu.
<ubuntujenkins> I also see it in the view menu
<godbyk> guess I'll fix that in my english pdf, too. :)
<c7p> so i don't have to report it as bug, you will fix it
<c7p> right ?
<humphreybc> godbyk: minor details, minor details
<godbyk> It also says Browse, not Browser.
<humphreybc> go back to your grammar nazi cave
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> I'm not the one who has money riding on the perfection of the manual .:-P
<humphreybc> do I have money riding on the perfection of the manual?
<godbyk> humphreybc: so you say.
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> the bet
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> fingers crossed martin will forget :P
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: pushed a new image
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks, I'll try it out.
<godbyk> (I only caught it because latex complained that it was 30 pts too wide for the line.  it looks fine, but I'm checking into all the long lines to make sure they're not obvious.)
<ubuntujenkins> its a good catch it must have been taken at the wrong resolution
<godbyk> it's just slightly wider than it should be, too.  but 30 pts is quite a bit for latex not to be able to find a better line break. that's why it caught my eye.
<humphreybc> where's the PPA Luke?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: now it's happy
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins/+archive/ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yey \0/
<humphreybc> cool
<ubuntujenkins> its not that exciting really
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins.. figure 8.3 in the manual -- that's what the quickshot dialog should look like, too. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yep thats what i was going to use :)
<godbyk> (stumbled across that because the MacBook Pro section heading was too long.)
<c7p> the manual is released in three days, right ?
<godbyk> humphreybc: you'll be pleased to know that I fixed it so that URLs aren't split after the colon.  hopefully that doesn't make the line breaks worse.
<godbyk> c7p: yep
<c7p> godbyk: nice
<godbyk> c7p: I'm trying to get all the final little edits in to the English version before I upload it to the book printing site.  http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> Let me know if you find any bugs.
<c7p> ok ;)
<c7p> the translated will be released on the same day or a little later ?
<c7p> translated versions*
<godbyk> c7p: they'll be released a little later. basically as they're completed.
<c7p> nice
<godbyk> I've just uploaded a new copy of the PDF.
<godbyk> well, it's still uploading, I guess.
<godbyk> okay, now it's up.
<c7p> will we have a "meeting" to talk about the project and experience gained? No plans, tech detai etc.. Just chat with the members of UMP community.
<godbyk> that'd be cool.
<godbyk> nisshh: and I will be in the channel. so you can come party with us. :)
<ubuntujenkins> which channel where and when?
<nisshh> in here, sometime, dunno when
<nisshh> on release day of course
<godbyk> here. not sure what the official release time is.  humphreybc?
<humphreybc> no idea, around 1200 UTC should be good
<nisshh> iv heard from alot of people that it gets released around 1am UTC
<godbyk> that's 0700 for me.. yuck. mornings suck. :)
<humphreybc> nah it's more like 6pm UTC
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> Ubuntu usually comes out at like 1800 UTC i think
<humphreybc> but i'll find out the actual time at some point
<ubuntujenkins> I might be around depends if i am awake
<nisshh> we dont have to have it then
<nisshh> we can have it later
<nisshh> ill be at college then anyway
<godbyk> right. maybe it'll just be an all-day event and people can stop by when they have time.
<vish> humphreybc: does the quickshot logo need to be Ubuntu and the UMP unrelated  or.. ?
<nisshh> godbyk: why do you always say what im about to say? :)
<vish> s/the//
<humphreybc> vish: no it should be unrelated to us
<godbyk> nisshh: great minds... ;-)
<vish> gotcha...
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> so i suppose the party is all day on the 29th
<nisshh> sounds good
<godbyk> works for me.
<c7p> nice
<c7p> brb
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: the PPA is good! Could you have the text in the menu "Getting Started with Ubuntu" instead of "ubuntu-manual" ?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: sure it ca all be changed. I am working on showing people the one that matches their local
<humphreybc> nice
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  idea
<ubuntujenkins> *'s
<humphreybc> can we get it in the universe repo for maverick?
<ubuntujenkins> back in a bit
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we can try
<humphreybc> it'll be in the universe for maverick
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<thorwil> godbyk: tried lots of things, i can't reproduce the pdf issue starting from scratch
<godbyk-android> Weird. Maybe reduce ours to a minimal example?
<thorwil> godbyk-android: yeah, that's what i'll do now
<semioticrobotic> 'morning all
<humphreybc> morning Bryain!
<humphreybc> Bryan, even
<humphreybc> hey does anyone know of any half decent games for Linux?
<humphreybc> like, first person shooters that aren't all alien
<semioticrobotic> morning Benjamin
<semioticrobotic> not much of a PC gamer, I'm afraid
<semioticrobotic> but the Ubuntu UK podcast team is always reviewing one game or another
<semioticrobotic> I'm sure their archives can serve as a starting point for recommendations
<popey> we've never reviewed any games :)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> popey: do you have "Ubuntu UK" on highlight?
<popey> yes
<semioticrobotic> popey: Ah, sorry.  My mistake.  :)
<humphreybc> so if I did this
<humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
<humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
<humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
<humphreybc> would that keep notifying you?
<humphreybc> :P
<semioticrobotic> glad you popped in, popey.  gives me a chance to tell you how much I enjoy your show.
<popey> awww, thanks semioticrobotic
<popey> humphreybc: actually i dont have ubuntu uk
<popey> it's "podcast" that brought me here
<humphreybc> ah ha
<popey> i do have uupc on hilight though
<semioticrobotic> speaking of which ... nice interview this weekend, humphreybc
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: oh cheers, that's only half of it :\
<semioticrobotic> ha!  yes, I could tell they performed a bit of editing
<popey> yeah, it was good
<semioticrobotic> but lots of good bits didn't hit the cutting room floor
<humphreybc> we recorded the OMG! podcast on Sunday night, it went really well but then found out that Joey's end didn't record :(
<semioticrobotic> ack!
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: They're sticking some in to the next episode
<semioticrobotic> oh, great!
<semioticrobotic> what topics?
<humphreybc> Yeah so the plan was to have both local sound tracks, so we get best quality... but now we're basically have my local track and Joey remote... which is very much lo-fi. Not good at all. But we're pressing on with the release, and we will make sure it doesn't happen for next week's
<humphreybc> semioticrobotic: not sure, I can't remember :P
<semioticrobotic> haha ... well, then it will be a surprise
<humphreybc> so I sound really good and then Joey sounds like he's stuck under some collapsed mine
<semioticrobotic> fine with me
<semioticrobotic> oh no
<humphreybc> yeah :(
<humphreybc> really, really disappointing. We also had tonnes of other problems like dropped skype calls and things
<humphreybc> but we soldiered on... hopefully we don't get shot to bits
<popey> it will :)
<popey> thats pretty much what the original full circle podcast did
<semioticrobotic> the FCP team pushed through a vacuum ruckus last episode ... I say, just publish it :)
<humphreybc> it will get shot to bits, popey?
<humphreybc> hopefully our really bad puns and hilarious analogies will pull through.... =S
<semioticrobotic> a powerfully bad pun can rectify any amount of distortion
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> and we have the coolest music ever
<humphreybc> like, ever
<humphreybc> EVER
<humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKFjWR7X5dU
<semioticrobotic> that's going to be great
<humphreybc> you guys wanna see something cool?
<semioticrobotic> when don't we?
<humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
<semioticrobotic> really nice ... what did you use to map the social graph?
<humphreybc> not sure, Tommy Brunn emailed me the video
<humphreybc> he told me what it was but i forget the name
<humphreybc> i need to find out
<semioticrobotic> yeah ... I wonder how he culled all that data
<semioticrobotic> from launchpad?
<humphreybc> I think the program does it
<humphreybc> bonus points if you can spot yourself haha
<semioticrobotic> oh, I tried!
<semioticrobotic> but the text was a bit too small/fuzzy on this machine
<humphreybc> I love the translation and screenshots folders
<humphreybc> they're like flowers
<semioticrobotic> will have to try later
<semioticrobotic> yeah ... and they burst onto the scene powerfully
<semioticrobotic> very fun to watch
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> we're like bees
<humphreybc> bees in a hive
<semioticrobotic> it also gives me a visual history of the project before I joined
<humphreybc> I think Tommy has a slower version, that's 10 minutes long
<humphreybc> where you can see in more detail
<semioticrobotic> oh, neat
<humphreybc> I'll get him to youtube it
<semioticrobotic> I'm sure that file is too large to post to YouTube, but I'd love to see it some time
<humphreybc> it's pretty wicked
<semioticrobotic> cool
<humphreybc> youtube allows up to like 3 GB
<humphreybc> it'll be fine
<semioticrobotic> oh wow
<semioticrobotic> i had no idea
<semioticrobotic> handy, though
<semioticrobotic> yeah, definitely tell him to post the extended version
<humphreybc> i'm watching it in slow mo
<humphreybc> I see you bryan!
<semioticrobotic> okay, benjamin.  take care
<humphreybc> see ya :)
<semioticrobotic> back ...
<semioticrobotic> when do I pop into view?
<semioticrobotic> I'll try again to spot myself
<humphreybc> about 32 seconds
<humphreybc> 37 seconds you're on the bottom left of the main circle
<humphreybc> it would be awesome to have the slower version as my screensaver
<humphreybc> or even real time....
<humphreybc> that would be so cool
<semioticrobotic> ha!  nice!
<semioticrobotic> there I go ... zooming to the left
<semioticrobotic> this computer doesn't  handle flash well at all
<semioticrobotic> so it's choppy
<semioticrobotic> but I could see well enough
<semioticrobotic> very neat
<humphreybc> heh, dutchie's just running around the entire branch
<humphreybc> I need to find out what program it is
<semioticrobotic> haha!  yeah
<semioticrobotic> okay, I'd better prep my stuff for classes today
<semioticrobotic> thanks for sharing, humphreybc
<humphreybc> yeah from the branch
<semioticrobotic> have a good one...
<humphreybc> Ah ha!
<humphreybc> it's called Gource
<humphreybc> it's in the repos!
<humphreybc> how do I get a log file of the branch?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<ubuntujenkins> is godbyk awake humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> nah
<humphreybc> he'll be asleep
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will leave him a message
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ref bug 570125 I think the user will say that 'sudo tlmgr --gui' will not work as their original post implies that they have the packages and not the stuff we have to use
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 570125 in ubuntu-manual "No version of TeX Live was detected while texlive IS installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570125
<ubuntujenkins> what you up to humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> playing around with Gource :P
<humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
<ubuntujenkins> wow how is that all generated
<humphreybc> a program called "gource"
<humphreybc> it's in the repos
<humphreybc> command line app though
<ubuntujenkins> does it take the bzr commits or something?
<humphreybc> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> crazy or what :-)
<humphreybc> Tommy is going to make an extended version in more detail
<ubuntujenkins> that is a wicked program
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: wow you are still up.
<humphreybc> heh, yeah
<humphreybc> trying to find a creative commons alternative to "Time to Pretend" by MGMT
<ubuntujenkins> good song
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> I want to use it in a UDS video
<ubuntujenkins> you like you videos :)
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> struggling to find something as awesome as Time to Pretend
<ubuntujenkins> is all the stuff in jamendo cc?
<humphreybc> most of it yeah
<humphreybc> different kinds of CC
<ubuntujenkins> there is allot if music to go thourgh
 * humphreybc likes this music video
<humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz2ZDeTYgTs
<humphreybc> The Fratellis are cool
<humphreybc> I think it's going to have to be Time to Pretend for what I want to do though
<humphreybc> I wish I had a video camera though :(
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't heard them in while
<humphreybc> actually... they have cameras at UDS. I wonder if I can steal one for the week.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you pop a text file on your server with en_GB
<ubuntujenkins> en_US
<ubuntujenkins> gl
<ubuntujenkins> es in it please
<ubuntujenkins> I need to test reading it for the manual ppa thing
<ubuntujenkins> en_GB
<ubuntujenkins> en_US
<ubuntujenkins> gl
<ubuntujenkins> es
<humphreybc> huh?
<ubuntujenkins> makes more sense ^
<ubuntujenkins> on your computer where ou paste us links to can you put a txt file with (see above) in . I am trying to read form a file that is on a server
<ubuntujenkins> *you
<ubuntujenkins> *text
<ubuntujenkins> working on only pulling the the manual that is complete by reading the complete ones from a file
<ubuntujenkins> if the file is remote it makes it easier to update
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> so what am I putting in the file?
<ubuntujenkins> en_GB
<ubuntujenkins> en_US
<ubuntujenkins> gl
<ubuntujenkins> es
<ubuntujenkins> please :)
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> call it...?
<ubuntujenkins> manual_list will be fine it doesn't really matter
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual_list
<ubuntujenkins> thank you
<ubuntujenkins> wow i wrote something that works first time :P
<ubuntujenkins> no it doesn't ;(
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> that was an emotional rollercoaster
<humphreybc> yay! awh
<ubuntujenkins> I pasted it in the wrong place and was still reading a local file
<humphreybc> minor details
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: to be really anoying can you add fr to the file please. then i can double check it
<humphreybc> sure
<humphreybc> done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, and it works \o/
<humphreybc> yay!
<humphreybc> bedtime for me i think
<ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc
<humphreybc> I need to knock off 4 python labs before I leave for UDS
<humphreybc> so this weekend is gonna be me doing python :D
 * humphreybc will be in Belgium in 12 days
<humphreybc> night!
<humphreybc> o/
<ubuntujenkins> o/
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: you can set up branches https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins where ubuntujenkins is your name or set one up under the project you are working on. if you do that i will have a look, it will make more sense to me then
<hemanth> sure
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, push is taking a long time, may be my ISP is clogged
<hemanth> Unable to handle http code 502: Bad Gateway!
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: not much luck then. try and explain what you mean here.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, created... one sec plz
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, bzr branch lp:~hemanth-hm/rfc/rfc-finder
<ubuntujenkins> ok hemanth I have quickly open what are you trying to do? I will do my best to help
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, user types a value in the test area and hits the search button
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i need to fetch that value and read http response later from the fetched value
<ubuntujenkins> fetching the value can be done. by http resonse do you mean like 404 error etc
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, http part i can take care, this signal handling i'm new to; that http response must be displayed in the view port
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, the value may be anything, that is later on appended to an uri and i get that uri's response
<ubuntujenkins> what would the the http resopnse that is needed to be displaied look like? a line of text?
<hemanth> text
<hemanth> yes a text block
<ubuntujenkins> rigth i can do this, just depends if we have time
<ubuntujenkins> I have dinner to go to and german lessions. ok first you have to call the window into the bin file. if you open the bin/rfc-search file
<ubuntujenkins> do you have the quickshot branch?
<hemanth> yes
<hemanth> like on on_next_1_clicked in quickshot i need to define here right?
<ubuntujenkins> basically yes but you also need to call the window and button etc into the file
<hemanth> o, that must be done as
<ubuntujenkins> so adding this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206355/ to line 92, calls int he main window
<hemanth> ok, then
<ubuntujenkins> for the button you would add self.rfc_search_window.button1 = get("button1")
<hemanth> that would get me the event?
<ubuntujenkins> nope type your event and then add it under the button as a handler on clicked for the button. sou also need to call in self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1")
<ubuntujenkins> thats the entry box
<hemanth> ok all this under the lines added at line 92 or in the method on_button1_clicked?
<ubuntujenkins> under line 92. under the button you would add
<ubuntujenkins> then when the button is pressed you would use x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text()
<ubuntujenkins> also nope type your event and then add it under the button as a handler on clicked for the button goes in glade
<hemanth> there i have added on click action as on_button1_clicked
<ubuntujenkins> sounds good
<hemanth> what must be the definition of on_button1_clicked? self.rfc_search_window.button1 = get("button1")and get("entry1")?
<ubuntujenkins> no no need to add that there. doing it at the start means that it is all called into the file
<ubuntujenkins> just add x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() then ...
<hemanth> ok
<ubuntujenkins> print x
<ubuntujenkins> that will show the value in the command line, fingers crossed
<ubuntujenkins> does it work?
<hemanth> gosh getting indentation error
<ubuntujenkins> if you can't spot push it and i will see if i can
<hemanth> its say in line 94, but in vi all seems to indented fine, anyone i have pushed it
<ubuntujenkins> look at line 104 there is an tab
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: we have differen line numbers
<hemanth> o!
<hemanth> which line are you referring to ?
<ubuntujenkins> you have added stuff where i said at least the right line number s but it is in the wrong place. let me paste bin some stuff
<ubuntujenkins> look at line 106 in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206360/ an line 93 -99 should be added
<hemanth> o ho ok
<ubuntujenkins> *106 to 108
<hemanth> those lines which are to "<<<<<removed" must be in line?
<hemanth> o got it
<ubuntujenkins> aslo where you have def on_button1_clicked(self, button, data=None): that all needs to match the indentaion above
<ubuntujenkins> are you indenting with tabs?
<hemanth> i'm using a vim plugin for auto indent
<ubuntujenkins> well it appears to be indenting using tabs, it should be four spaces.
<ubuntujenkins> also where you have x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() you need to delete the first u
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, fixed the tab opened it with geany, but got this error AttributeError: 'RfcSearchWindow' object has no attribute 'rfc_search_window'
<ubuntujenkins> look up ^
<hemanth>  x = self.rfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() u mean
<ubuntujenkins> yes that is what it should read
<hemanth> it says 'RfcSearchWindow' object has no attribute 'rfc_search_window'
<ubuntujenkins> my section of that bit works http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206370/
<hemanth> there error its throwing is at this line self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1")
<ubuntujenkins> have you got self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1") at the top
<ubuntujenkins> line 90 ish
<hemanth> yup
<hemanth> below the comment which reads #Uncomment the following code to read in preferences at start up.
<ubuntujenkins> erm I have to go to dinner I will be back in 30 minutes or so this is my full file at the moment which works http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206372/ I will help when i get back
<hemanth> sure thank you
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I am back how is it going?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, allz well :) finished the url fetch thinge also
<hemanth> just need to put the data in the textview1
<ubuntujenkins> ok, I have 20 minutes before i have to go to german. why ahev you used a textview ? I can add it to a label if that is any help
<hemanth> can the data that has been fetched be put in that label?
<ubuntujenkins> I can but it in a label not sure how to add it to a text view
<hemanth> ok that is also fine, i have pushed the changes that i have made
<ubuntujenkins> if you can change it to a label and push. What am i suppose to put in the search box? to give it its really purpose/use
<hemanth> search box input will be rfc numbers
<ubuntujenkins> I am getting tones of errors when i try www.bbc.co.uk :$ a google told me what rfc is
<ubuntujenkins> now it works
<hemanth> :)
<ubuntujenkins> looking at the amount it returns chaneg the textview to scrolled window
<ubuntujenkins> then in it add a vewiport and in that ass a label
<ubuntujenkins> *add
<hemanth> label for?
<ubuntujenkins> the text to go in
<hemanth> label upon a scrolled window
<hemanth> ?
<hemanth> done
<ubuntujenkins> ok add self.rfc_search_window.label1 = get("label1") with the other lines changing label1 to the right name
<ubuntujenkins> and after print html add self.rfc_search_window.label1.set_text(str(html)) replacing label1 with the right name
<ubuntujenkins> you should then get a scroll able window which shows the search results
<ubuntujenkins> irc has stopped working
<ubuntujenkins> nope works again
<hemanth> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'set_text'
<ubuntujenkins> push it and i will have a quick look
<dutchie> what the hell was humphreybc going on about?
<dutchie> 14:57 #ubuntu-manual: < humphreybc> heh, dutchie's just running around the entire branch
<ubuntujenkins> ok i have to go to german but a working one exists here lp:~ubuntujenkins/+junk/rfc-finder see if you can work out what i did. I will be back in 2 hours. sorry i am so hit and miss on irc now that my letcures have started i am running about everywhere ( hemanth )
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: no idea wasn't here then might be something to do with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, no problem thanks and good night o/
<ubuntujenkins> no problem if you are around in 2 hours i can talk you though it all. or tomoorw
<hemanth> tomo is better its 11.40pm here
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: aha, es kÃ¶nnte sein
<dutchie> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/custom-bug-form # any input on required info?
<dutchie> I'm thinking section/chapter number, paragraph
<dutchie> language
<Daker> hi
<dutchie> hi Daker
<dutchie> Daker: are you doing your website work in the lp:ubuntu-manual-website branch now?
<Daker_> no
<vish> Daker: site updated? ;)
<Daker> yes tonight
<Daker> dutchie, yes
<dutchie> Daker: also, would it be possible to make the branch a bit more public?
<Daker> yes
<Daker> a tea
<Daker> team*
<dutchie> great
<dutchie> mind adding me when you've set it up so I can work on the custom bug form?
<Daker> sure
<Daker> dutchie, you will do it in php or python ?
<dutchie> django
<dutchie> (which is python)
<Daker> o.O
<Daker> good luck :D
<dutchie> since python-launchpadlib already exists and is easy
<Daker> yes
<Daker> f*** i added a member by mistake
<Daker> dutchie, your lp nickname
<dutchie> jshholland
<Daker> done
<dutchie> Daker: you going to change the branch ownership to the new team then?
<Daker> done
<dutchie> you sure? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website says it's still owned by you
<Daker> try now
<dutchie> sweet, looks good
 * dutchie starts hacking
<Daker> fell free
<dutchie> I'll stick it in its own directory
<Daker> oki
<dutchie> godbyk: ping
<godbyk-android> dutchie: pong
<godbyk-android> I'm just about to hop in the shower.
<dutchie> godbyk-android: it can wait till after
<godbyk-android> Okay, I'll be back in about half an hour.
<dutchie> godbyk: actually, I think I should wait until I have actually written some code before I worry about how to deploy it
<ubuntujenkins> hello al i am back
<ubuntujenkins> how are we all
<Daker> helo ubuntujenkins
<Daker> hello*
<dutchie> regretting leaving this big pile of chemistry till the night before it's due in
<ubuntujenkins> hello Daker, and dutchie
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, hi me still awake! as the text area and button are on hpanel they can be resized which hampers the look, so trying to fix it
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: hello where is the latest branch?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, same as the previous, branch is not updated, your branch is working but the issue is i have used hpanel and vpanel instead of box
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if box is used the area of separation makes the button very bad
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if dialogue box is used, quickly can't notice it
<ubuntujenkins> sorry i don't follow if dialogue box is used, quickly can't notice it
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yes the code is looking for a window not a dialogue box
<ubuntujenkins> so what do you want in a dailogue box?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, dialog-vbox i meant
<ubuntujenkins> sorry I don't follow, It may be beacuse i have been listening to german for the last two hours. we cant everything to look and stay the same size basically?
<ubuntujenkins> *want not cant
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i will send a screenshot wait
<ubuntujenkins> ok good, sorry if i ma being silly not very focused today
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
<godbyk> dutchie: What's up?
<dutchie> godbyk: was looking at best way to deploy the nascent bug form, but I decided to make it work locally first
<godbyk> k
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, DDC send failed
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: it never works for me i think its the uni network.  stick it on image bin http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins,http://imagebin.org/94540
<ubuntujenkins> so we want something like that?
<hemanth> yup
<hemanth> so that the button and text area are fixed at a position
<ubuntujenkins> I think you need to change your vspaned1 and hpaned1 to horisontal and vertical boxes
<hemanth> yup, if changed they don't look as it was supposed to, cos each col has a fixed width
<ubuntujenkins> if you sepcify the height and width requests right on the common tab you should get it looking right
<ubuntujenkins> you will also need to change it. glade doesn't show the winoe exactly as it appears
<ubuntujenkins> change the to hbox etc
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, the column width is unalterable, even on setting the request width, the window width changes but not the vbox
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: adjusting the settings correctly i can get http://imagebin.org/94544
<ubuntujenkins> how ever in glade it shows as http://imagebin.org/94545
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ha, got it add a vbox, then a label in it and then expanded the label phew
<ubuntujenkins> I didn't use a label there is anlignment box and all i did was specifiy the button size correctly not the align ment one
<ubuntujenkins> its a square with <- and a vertical <- on it
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins,o ok, i found a way to update text view, my_textview.get_buffer().set_text("my text")
<ubuntujenkins> I have just knotied ricksepencer is very helpfull
<hemanth> yup
<ubuntujenkins> that channel is the best, good quality people always get back to you
<hemanth> ya happy for that, we will try that or stick to label, how do we decided which is a better practice ?
<ubuntujenkins> its up to you which one you prefer and how you want it to appear as far as i know
<hemanth> ok phew, 2.30 am here i will finish it and sleep
<godbyk> hey, Daker. did you move the website branch?
<dutchie> has it broken everything?
<Daker> oh fu**
<Daker> yes
<Daker> sorry
<dutchie> that's a bit rubbish if it has
<godbyk> well, the auto-update cronjob is yelling at me that it can't find that branch.
<dutchie> Daker: not your fault, blame lp
<dutchie> godbyk: is it not pointing at lp:ubuntu-manual-website?
<dutchie> or did it get turned into one with ~adnane001 in it?
<dutchie> s/1/2/
<godbyk> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website/".
<Daker> yes
<Daker> we created a team & we got the branch public
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> so.. do I need to just re-branch?
<Daker> yes
<Daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<dutchie> I reckon you should be able to do bzr pull --remember lp:ubuntu-manual-remember
<Daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/website
<dutchie> mm, bagel
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: where is the team? can i join? I have no imideat interest but the quickshot stuff crosses over a bit
<ubuntujenkins> * Daker ^
<Daker> one sec
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website
<Daker> i created a ML too
<Daker> ubuntu-manual-website@lists.launchpad.net
<godbyk> so do the pull --remember on the existing branch?
<dutchie> should work
<Daker> ubuntujenkins, done
<godbyk> do I need the -remember on the lp name?
<ubuntujenkins> thansk Daker
<dutchie> godbyk: what do you mean "on"?
<dutchie> oh, no
<dutchie> brain fart
<godbyk> ok
<godbyk> that worked.
<godbyk> should I add --remember to the update script?
<dutchie> no
<dutchie> should Just Work (TM)
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> thanks
<dutchie> the --remember makes bzr remember ;)
<godbyk> noted. :)
<Daker> brb
<godbyk> dutchie: did the translations ever get sorted? or is po4a still giving us grief?
<dutchie> haven't tried again
<godbyk> k
 * dutchie tries now
<dutchie> I have too much to do :(
<dutchie> ooh, it's working
<godbyk> it is?  wtf?  what's different about today?
<dutchie> phase of moon?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: did you get my message about bug 570125 ?
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 570125 in ubuntu-manual "No version of TeX Live was detected while texlive IS installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570125
<godbyk> what about it?
<ubuntujenkins> looking at it the user is using the packages not the stuff we use
<godbyk> Ah, I see what you mean.
<godbyk> Do you think the installation instructions for TL aren't prominent enough?
<ubuntujenkins> thats their problem, I didn't want to add another person in to the bug and confuse things
<godbyk> Or do some people just not read at all before diving in? :)
<ubuntujenkins> make the packages dont work bolder?
<ubuntujenkins> not reading it could be part of it
<dutchie> would be nice if the packages worked
<godbyk> To be fair, the packages may actually work today.  I gave up on them because they didn't work a few months ago when we needed them to.
<godbyk> (But I'm not holding my breath.)
<dutchie> if they don't, it may be worth putting a ppa on the todo list
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't tried and don't want to I am thinking on how to do the ppa
<godbyk> And my set up is a bit more bleeding edge anyway.  As I'm running with a few of the packages from their VCSs.
<ubuntujenkins> possibly a dummy package that just wraps up the install script thing
<dutchie> you could probably just nab the debian/ dir out of stock lucid TL and update the rest
<godbyk> Yeah, there is a PPA that has/had lucid TL packages in them, but they were incomplete when I looked back in Jan/Feb.
<dutchie> see http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/making-daily-builds/
<godbyk> The problem is that Debian/Ubuntu don't want to keep updating things as they're released upstream (because they'd be releasing new updates to those huge texlive-* packages every day).
<ubuntujenkins> daily builds are easy :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how do i update the stuff i ma usingas i used the script?
<godbyk> the TL updates?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<godbyk> the easiest way is to 'apt-get install perl-tk' first, then run 'sudo tlmgr --gui'.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i had used hudson for CI
<godbyk> from the File menu (or whatever the first menu is), select the repository. this will update the index.
<godbyk> then select 'updates' from the first set up options.
<godbyk> then click 'update all' at the bottom.
<godbyk> you may have to do it a couple times as the first update may be an update for tlmgr itself (which requires a restart).
 * dutchie braces himself for translator complaints and pushes
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, if they are updating it this offten a ppa might not be so easy to keep it uptodate
 * ubuntujenkins passes dutchie a shield 
<dutchie> this pile of chemistry questions is not getting any smaller
<daker> guys i need keywords for the website
<dutchie> ubuntu, manual, errr...
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu and manual
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: beat me
<daker> others
<daker> lucid, 10.04, lynx, lucid lynx...
<godbyk> dutchie: did you push .po files, too? does launchpad detect those or ignore them?
<dutchie> it scans them and imports any changes, and yes
<dutchie> though most of it will be annoying format changes
<godbyk> daker: help, documentation, book, pdf, ebook
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I see no updates and get this in the terminal http://paste.ubuntu.com/423012/
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: did the window pop up? did you click on anything?
<godbyk> dutchie: we probably don't want to update the .po files if they're going to overwrite the work translators have done in launchpad since the previous update.
<ubuntujenkins> the window showed i followed your instructions and thats what i was left with and a window showing nothing new
<dutchie> godbyk: lp's clever enough not to do that
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: okay, so you went to the tlmgr menu and clicked on 'load default repository: <URL>"?
<godbyk> dutchie: gotcha.  though I'm learning to doubt launchpad's alleged cleverness. :)
 * dutchie thinks "sudo tlmgr update --all" would be quicker
<dutchie> godbyk: yeah, true
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  doh missed that sorry :(
<dutchie> never been a problem before though
<godbyk> dutchie: it probably would be, yeah.  I just like to see what's being updated first.
<godbyk> dutchie: and I wanted to make sure he actually had a repo set.  (sometimes you have to run it once to set the repo)
<dutchie> fair enough
<ubuntujenkins> hmm godbyk if we could package the install-tl script and display it for people to configure would that be best?
<ubuntujenkins>  /dispay what we see when we install it
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: hmm.. well, we'd want to modify the script in that case because we can just have the .deb depend on the other debs (instead of having install-pkgs.sh install them afterward).
<godbyk> oh, wait.. you mean install-tl.
<godbyk> sorry.
<godbyk> maybe.
<godbyk> we'll have to look into it.
<ubuntujenkins> I think that is the simplest option, we could try to configure the script to auto install the required stuff for us.
<ubuntujenkins> how it is updated if you needed to use a new function i am not sure
<daker> guys you are talking about ?
<godbyk> daker: we were just discussing ways to make it easier for people to install tex live 2009.
<godbyk> daker: how's the website coming along?
<ubuntujenkins> ok another idea make a package that we update its dependencies if we need to add a new part,
<daker> give me a few minutes pls
<ubuntujenkins> a "dummy" package
<daker> brb
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: do you know where i can get the texlive source
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: look around tug.org/texlive
<ubuntujenkins> I quote the control file "This metapackage provides a decent selection of the TeX Live packages
<ubuntujenkins>  which should suffice for the most common tasks."
<ubuntujenkins> and a read me "Packaging TeX Live for Debian is a huge task. Development is done in
<ubuntujenkins> a very specific layout and source packages are generated from that."
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> I know.
<ubuntujenkins> his could be easier said than done. :)
<ubuntujenkins> *this
<godbyk> an alternative may be to package each TL source package as its own deb file, but that introduces a lot of overhead
<ubuntujenkins> that could wrk fine just need to work out how to convert it all to a deb file
<godbyk> automatically, if possible.
<ubuntujenkins> +1 to that
<ubuntujenkins> hmm this looks intersting "The Debian TeXLive repository does not contain the actual sources,
<ubuntujenkins> only the files needed to create Debian packages from them.  You have
<ubuntujenkins> to get the sources separately.
<ubuntujenkins> "
<dutchie> what happened to the old bug reporting form?
<ubuntujenkins> lost under the pile of chemistry?
<dutchie> chemistry's all done now \o/
<dutchie> the one which fed into a google doc
<ubuntujenkins> not sure don't ahev it bookmarked
<dutchie> godbyk might know
<godbyk> I dunno.  If it's not there, you'd have to ask daker. The google spreadsheet/form still exists.
<dutchie> well, the fields are all I need really
<dutchie> do you have a url?
<godbyk> docs.ubuntu-manual.org
<dutchie> dank u wel
<godbyk> how's that differ from 'danke'?
 * godbyk really should just learn german at some point and be done with it.
<dutchie> that was dutch
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> that'd be the difference then. :)
<ubuntujenkins> ok how do i convert http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-tex/texlive2009/#_texlive2009_ to an svn address . I am unexpericnecnced with svn
<godbyk> not sure.
<godbyk> it may not translate directly.
<daker> dutchie, yes it still exists
<daker> but it's hided
<dutchie> it's fine, the docs link godbyk gave was enogh
<dutchie> enough*
<godbyk> daker: I'm probably going to have you create an 'errata' page sometime soon, too.  It will contain a list of bugs that have been reported against the printed edition and also link to the bug reporting form.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: what are you working on at the moment?
<daker> i just pushed my work, iam waiting for the update
<godbyk> daker: let me know if the update does happen.. I may still have to fiddle with the update script to make sure it's pulling from the new repository location.
<dutchie> \o/ Typing out language codes is Fun
<daker> it doesn't work godbyk
<godbyk> daker: are you pushing to the right branch?  I'm not seeing an update in launchpad yet: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<godbyk> dutchie: what're you typing language codes for?
<dutchie> the language selection for the bug form
<godbyk> ah. yay.
<godbyk> the languages should be translated to their native names, too. just for added challenge.
<godbyk> (and the form should get translated as well at some point.)
<dutchie> there is an i18n framework in django somewhere
<dutchie> not used it though
<godbyk> cool
<dutchie> languages are in english on the english version though
<godbyk> dutchie: we also need to find a way so that the translators can translate some semi-arbitrary strings.
<godbyk> I've got some that won't show in the .tex files that should be translated.
<daker> godbyk, i thinks you are right
<dutchie> when did we get an esperanto translation?
<dutchie> blimey
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: in this sentence "Note that the blacklist: statements (see below) are taking action here, too,
<ubuntujenkins> so that blacklisted files and tpms are NOT included in the .orig.tar.gz." is tpms a latex thing? or am i to tired?
<godbyk> dutchie: Yeah, I think it'd be awesome to see Esperanto, Latin, and Ancient Greek.  Unfortunately, most those only have a single string translated.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: never heard of tpm before.
<dutchie> ancient greek is listed as length 1647, untranslated 1646
<dutchie> so one string done :)
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough godbyk I thought it was a typo for tmp but it is everywhere
<godbyk> Whew! 1 down, 1646 to go!
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe 'tex package manager' or something weird?
<godbyk> I haven't dived into the inner workings of the tex live stuff much.
<ubuntujenkins> hmm good idea, how do i use find to find files that have the work blacklist in there name?
<godbyk> no clue there, either.
<godbyk> you're in uncharted territory, my friend.
<ubuntujenkins> I THINK all i have to do is work out what bit means not all of the texlive stuff is pulled into the packages and i MIGHT have it
<dutchie> has anyone ever even heard of Marathi?
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I had to look it (and some other languages) up to get latex working with 'em.
<godbyk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathi_language
<dutchie> 15th most spoken language in the world
<dutchie> learn something new every day
<godbyk> Yep.
<godbyk> Some time after the release, we'll have to gather up a bunch of the translators and talk about how we can improve this whole translation process.
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> though I suspect the main point will be "Stop losing all our hard work"
<godbyk> Right.
<godbyk> I'm not sure where it keeps disappearing to, nor why.
<dutchie> me neithe
<dutchie> r
<daker> someone should approve this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/wiki-migration
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> anybody know what zh_CH is?
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: yes hang on.........
<daker> zh_CN => Chinese Simplified
<ubuntujenkins> Chinese (Simplified) http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ is useful
<daker> zh_TW => Chinese Traditional
<dutchie> ah, just Chinese
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  thought on e-mailing the debian tex maintainers list for help?
<ubuntujenkins> *thoughts
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you could.  they'd probably tell you why they chose not to go the route you want to go or something. I don't know what to expect. you can try, though.
<ubuntujenkins> I might gie it a try when i am more awake i am going to ask in some channels that #debian have suggested
 * ubuntujenkins hopes no one shouts at him for asking in the wrong place on irc
<dutchie> time for bed
<dutchie> night
<ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-27
<ubuntujenkins> morning everyone
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how easy would it be to work out what is missing from the packages? I expect the answer is very hard
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: it's not so much what's missing.. we just need more recent versions, I think.
<ubuntujenkins> ok then if the text live source finishes downloading soon I might try and build a set of packages. the only other problem is ppas are limited to 2.0gb at least the ones on my user
<ubuntujenkins> all its downloaded is 250mb the svn server must be slow
<ubuntujenkins> I am off night all
<daker> good night ubuntujenkins
<daker_> godbyk, !!
<godbyk> Hey, daker_
<daker_> what i need you to do
<daker_> is to point test.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test
<daker_> and
<daker_> is to point ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main
<daker_> now wait til i pushed the test folder
<godbyk> daker_: okay, just tell me when to make the switch.
<godbyk> Welcome back, daker.
<daker> back
<daker> should i delete this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website ?
<godbyk> daker: Why don't you leave it there for a while -- just in case.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> We can delete it later, after everything else is up and running.
<daker> so first point the test.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual/test
<godbyk> okay. let me run the update script to make sure everything's up to date.
<godbyk> do you mean lp:ubuntu-manual/test or lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test?
<daker> lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test
<daker> :D
<godbyk> daker: okay, done.
<godbyk> what's next?
<daker> okey one sec
<godbyk> k
<daker> point the ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main
<daker> wait til lp get updated
<godbyk> daker: done
<daker> great
<daker> godbyk, question
<daker> "with Ground Control were were able to slice the barrier to entry to our project without sacrificing the benefits of a revision control system"
<daker> the "were were" is correct ?
<godbyk> daker: it should be 'we were'
<daker> that's what i thought
<daker> now everything in place
<godbyk> cool.  so what's new?
<daker> new icons at right
<daker> new page => http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/help
<daker> a lot of bug fixes
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> let me know if you have any problems with the database stuff
<daker> oki
<daker> if you could pls create the structure for the files.ubuntu....org asap
<godbyk> oh, sure.  just a moment.
<godbyk> okay, daker. I have the directory structure set up.  I think it's how I want it.
<daker> ???!!!
<godbyk> so under the files.ubuntu-manual.org domain, there's the following structure for the manuals. let me know if it makes sense or if you think I should change something:
<godbyk> manuals/
<godbyk> `-- getting-started-with-ubuntu
<godbyk>     |-- 10.04
<godbyk>     |   `-- en_US
<godbyk>     |       |-- print
<godbyk>     |       `-- screen
<godbyk>     |-- 10.04-2e
<godbyk>     `-- 10.10
<daker> great
<daker> print and screen are folders ?
<godbyk> daker: yeah, though they'll really only contain one pdf file each.
<godbyk> the pdf should probably be named 'Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04.pdf' (translated per language).
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: on the quickshot page, the tagline 'Taking screenshots has never been easier' is so light that it's unreadable. can we make it darker?
<godbyk> brb
<daker> that's what humphreybc says to me
<godbyk> brb
<daker> godbyk, another thing before i go to sleep, i need you to updated the website pot file
<daker> because i saw that people still translate string in the ubuntu-manual page
<godbyk-android> I don't know how to update the website's pot
<godbyk-android> but I can email dutchie and have him do it when he wakes up
<daker> very easy
<daker> just get the pot file from lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
<daker> and replace it in
<daker> lp:ubunt-manual/website/daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
<godbyk> daker: ah, I see what you mean.
<godbyk> the translators aren't translating the ubuntu-manual-website stuff, only the ubuntu-manual stuff, so you want me to copy over the pot file to the ubuntu-manual repository.
<godbyk> I can do that.
<daker> yes
<godbyk> bzr is being slow again.
<godbyk> daker: did you see the new video that humphreybc uploaded yesterday?
<daker> yes
<godbyk> daker: I've updated the pot file.
<godbyk> translators should see it soon (launchpad has to process it first).
<daker> great
<daker> i am not present
<daker> i don't see my self on the video :s
<daker> oki time to sleep :)
<daker> good night all
 * ubuntujenkins is still downloading the textlive source 1.9gb done but the svn server is slow
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, now got a good grip on glade :)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if you still have my branch, please can you pull and check if its ok
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: works for me
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins,thanks, now i can dive into quickshot :O)
<ubuntujenkins> possiblly put some padding on the label to move the text from the edge. just a thought
<hemanth> okies will do that
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, can the entry text have an action lister to enter key, or the search button respond to enter key and on click as well?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> just finding it
<ubuntujenkins> on signals tab for the button. under clicked it says enter add on_find_clicked
<hemanth> on_find_enter?
<ubuntujenkins> no use the same thing on_find_clicked
<hemanth> it says Could not lookup object enter on signal clicked
<ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/94625 is how you want it
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yup the same i have done
<humphreybc1> hey thorwil, I see Iain still hasn't emailed that SVG through :S
<humphreybc1> it's like the design team have no concept of deadlines
<thorwil> hi humphreybc1. from the outside, their way of working seems to be horrendously chaotic. one always hears how they are so terribly busy, but one might wonder about the efficiency, looking at the output :/
<humphreybc1> heh
<humphreybc1> yeah
<humphreybc1> (they should just hire me to sort their shit out)
<humphreybc1> ;)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I am not sure why it doesn't work, it works for me
<thorwil> humphreybc1: sure, you're job would be to set realistic goals ;)
 * ubuntujenkins wow the wepad does open office
<humphreybc1> thorwil: :)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, o ok will re-check it, i added padding to the button
 * hemanth +1 to wepad :) 
<godbyk> I haven't had any more bugs reported on this final draft, so I'm left with the conclusion that it's perfect and ready for print.
<humphreybc1> apart from the cover
<godbyk> humphreybc1: When did you want it on lulu?  If we don't get the logo asap, we may have to go in without it for this first edition.
<humphreybc1> the design team will just be getting into work now, i'll see what I can do
<godbyk> okay.
<humphreybc1> Iain just came online now
<godbyk> I think lulu processes the submissions pretty quickly, but it's still good to get it in early so we can make sure everything's good.  (and get the links in to daker et al.)
<godbyk> humphreybc1: pounce!
<humphreybc1> one step ahead of ya
<godbyk> thorwil: do you think we should have a bastard title page?
<humphreybc1> apparently we are waiting for Mark to sign it off
<humphreybc1> should be in the next couple of hours, hopefully
<ChrisWoollard> Also the UK Translation is now finished.
<humphreybc1> yay!!!
<ubuntujenkins> yey!!!
 * humphreybc1 checks the translations 
<humphreybc1> there are still 67 untranslated strings?
 * ubuntujenkins the texlive svn server is o slow
<ChrisWoollard> really
<humphreybc1> according to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<ChrisWoollard> I just finished them
<ubuntujenkins> they are for the website
<humphreybc1> oh nice!
<humphreybc1> so it looks like we'll have UK english, US english, German, Greek and Galician versions available either on release or very shortly after
<ChrisWoollard> hmmm
<ChrisWoollard> i was doing https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual
<humphreybc1> hmm
<humphreybc1> godbyk
<humphreybc1> please explain what's happening
<ChrisWoollard> if you click on uk, it then says it has none
<humphreybc1> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> whats wrong? i think every thing is fine
<ChrisWoollard> from the link you provided
<humphreybc1> hmm
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> so howcome we have two different links?
<godbyk> what am I looking into?
<ubuntujenkins> every thing is ok, the link that ChrisWoollard gave was a direct one to lucid-e1 only the link humphreybc1  gave was all the manual translations
<humphreybc1> why the translations here (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual) are different to here (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual)
<ubuntujenkins> the first on shows the website as well
<humphreybc1> ubuntujenkins: oh so my link covers all our branches, like websites/maverick/e2/e1 etc
<humphreybc1> is that right?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<humphreybc1> ah ha
<ubuntujenkins> clikc on a language
<godbyk> well, it covers a single series, I think.
<godbyk> but it includes both the website and manual translations.
<godbyk> (which, btw, I just updated the website translations a few hours ago, so you might make sure they're updated)
<ChrisWoollard> Yes, there are more
<humphreybc1> never ending Chris :P
<ChrisWoollard> never mind. only 67
<humphreybc1> the website shouldn't be too hard
<humphreybc1> German is all green :D
<humphreybc1> godbyk, what about the text on the website front page?
<humphreybc1> you know
<godbyk> what about it?
<humphreybc1> when the countdown timer disappears
<humphreybc1> we have a different front page
<humphreybc1> the one I mocked up
<humphreybc1> lemme find it
<humphreybc1> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4396509529/sizes/o/
<godbyk> I think we just edit the router file and say that 'homepage' is the new homepage instead of 'countdown'.
<godbyk> but I haven't looked at the code for quite a while.
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> so daker has actually made the new homepage?
<humphreybc1> shit have I made a new image for that with the new title page?
<humphreybc1> I swear I did
<humphreybc1> ah, i have
<humphreybc1> oh no wait
<humphreybc1> we had the flash fading thing
<humphreybc1> that's right
<humphreybc1> it faded between four iamges
<humphreybc1> images*
<humphreybc1> where's that gone?
<humphreybc1> is the site going to switch over to that page when the countdown reaches zero?
<humphreybc1> and have the strings on that page been translated?
<godbyk> I assume the home page has been created and we just have to switch to it. but I don't know.
<humphreybc1> i'm pretty sure it's been created
<humphreybc1> he was testing the fading images in different browsers, remember?
<godbyk> I don't think it switches automatically; I think we have to do it manually.
<godbyk> you can poke around the branch and see.
<humphreybc1> okay, figure out how to do it manually so we're ready. I don't like having to rely on one person for our entire release.
<humphreybc1> which branch is the site in?
<humphreybc1> ubuntu-manual or ubuntu-manual-website?
<godbyk> the ubuntu-manual-website branch
<godbyk> in the main/ dir
<godbyk> the pages are in the main/pages dir
<humphreybc1> so can we delete the website folder from the ubuntu-manual branch?
<humphreybc1> and do we even have write access to ubuntu-manual-website?
<ChrisWoollard> Ok, Now it is clear
<humphreybc1> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website
<humphreybc1> did daker create a team?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc1: if you join the website team yes but daker has to aprove you first
<humphreybc1> oh
<godbyk> humphreybc1: yes, we can delete it but let's wait 'til we have the site up and whatnot. just to be safe.  also, we're still using the manual branch for translations (since the translators haven't been translating the -website stuff)
<humphreybc1> right
<godbyk> humphreybc1: also, we should have write access to the repository now (though I haven't tried it yet)
<humphreybc1> that's... overly complicated.
<godbyk> what's overly complicated?
<humphreybc1> the fact that the translations for the website are being done from one branch, but the website is stored elsewhere
<humphreybc1> also we have like, a tonne of old files from other people who worked on the site
<godbyk> well, yes.  we'll move the translators over, but right now they're heads-down working.
<humphreybc1> okay
<godbyk> and next week (when we can all catch our breaths), we'll want to wipe out the maverick branch probably and build a new one with just the manual files in it (so it's not carrying around the bloated history of everything before it including the website)
<godbyk> \o/
<godbyk> I just added two new document class options: screen and print.
<humphreybc1> yup, okay, good
<humphreybc1> next week will be all hands to the pumps setting everything up for maverick
<godbyk> so if I compile with the 'screen' option, the links are in color. if I compile with the 'print' option, the links are black text.
 * godbyk is pleased with himself.
<humphreybc1> nice
 * humphreybc1 is pleased with godbyk!
<humphreybc1> but yeah, next will be all setting up infrastructure, specifications and getting help for the next 6 months
<godbyk> actually, the maverick stuff isn't quite top priority.  we'll have to get lucid-e2 going first and deal with whatever comes of the release.
<humphreybc1> well that's what i mean
<humphreybc1> lucid-e2/maverick/same diff :P
<thorwil> godbyk: bastard title page?
<humphreybc1> also, we need to talk with Ilya to figure out some research
<godbyk> also known as a half title page.
<godbyk> thorwil: basically it's a really simple title page that comes before the nice title page.
<godbyk> since it's abutted against the cover with the book is closed, it's what catches any damage.
<godbyk> (at least that was the original idea centuries ago.  now they're not quite as necessary.. I'm just old-fashioned.)
<thorwil> godbyk: i think no, as it's one of those things that makes a book feel big
<godbyk> 'kay.
<thorwil> godbyk: in german, we call that a schmutztitel, literally "dirt title". no wonder i had to look up bastard/half title
<thorwil> hooray for information technology's lack of specific native german terms
<godbyk> heh.. well, it's not really an IT term -- just a publishing term.
<godbyk> But I like scmuztitel.  It clearly defines its purpose. :)
<humphreybc1> godbyk, an example of a half title?
<humphreybc1> (picture)
<thorwil> godbyk: that's what i mean. IT does not have that native language baggage typography or other old fields have, making it a lot easier for bi-linguals
<godbyk> ah, I see.
<godbyk> humphreybc1: sure, one sec.
<godbyk> humphreybc1: http://kevin.godby.org/ShinyHappyUsersWithCover.pdf
<godbyk> so the first page is the cover. the second is the backside of the cover. ignore those.
<godbyk> then you have the half-title page.
<godbyk> then there's a frontispiece (it's there because there were two title page proposals and that was part of the losing one. so I put it there as a compromise)
<godbyk> then you have the full title page (with all the authors)
<godbyk> then the copyright page
<godbyk> then the contents, main matter, back matter, etc.
<godbyk> what's the easiest way to extract a single page out of a pdf?
<godbyk> (just so you don't have to download to full copies of the book when I show you this page)
<godbyk> thorwil, humphreybc1, et al.: what do you think of this text that I added to the copyright page?  (it differs slightly for print and screen versions.)
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-screen.pdf
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-print.pdf
<godbyk> Hey, komsas. How's it going?
<komsas> hi godbyk, I'm good, thanks
<komsas> godbyk: do you know where is better to translate web page, there is ubuntu-manual-website project and ubu-man-website-translations template in the ubuntu-manul?
<godbyk> yeah, it shouldn't actually matter -- they're the same translations in both (and launchpad will copy them across the two projects)
<humphreybc1> godbyk, looks good
<godbyk> we copied the translations into the ubuntu-manual project so that translators would see them and translate them.
<godbyk> (since we started the -website project a bit later and it seemed like the translators hadn't noticed it yet)
<humphreybc1> right
<humphreybc1> i have avatar on blu ray and a tonne of snacks
<humphreybc1> i'm going to watch it now
<thorwil> godbyk: firefox/wget hang on connecting to kevin.godby.org
<godbyk> really?
<thorwil> godbyk: according to the last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/570377 , i just need to fix a lsight accidental transparency that shouldn't be there in the first place to get correct pdf export
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 570377 in inkscape "Erroneous PDF export of scaled rectangles" [Undecided,New]
<godbyk> thorwil: it worked okay here.
<godbyk> thorwil: nice.. that's an odd bug, isn't it?
<thorwil> godbyk: yes. that i ended up with 98% transparency is likely related to the tools remembering last used options. though even then i don't know how i can have one reactangle at 100 and the other on 98 in my test file, where i didn't touch that slider at all
<thorwil> godbyk: unfortunately, none of the elements in the UMP logo is at less than 100% opacity :<
<godbyk> hmm..
<thorwil> godbyk: just did an export with the vector icon included and it comes out fine, now. but i happen to be using the latest inkscape bzr, so i don't know what fixed it now
<thorwil> insanity here i come
<godbyk> wonderful.
<godbyk> I guess I can try converting your svg here and see what blows up, too.
<godbyk> well, actually, this is the cover.
<godbyk> so it doesn't matter.
<thorwil> still no luck with Connecting to kevin.godby.org
<godbyk> you can do whatever you want, as long as you give me a PDF in the end. :)
<godbyk> thorwil: maybe try kevingodby.org?  it should be the same site.
<thorwil> godbyk: yeah, i will of course commit svg and pdf for this one
<godbyk> (in case it's a weird dns thing that only affects the godby.org domain)
<thorwil> same
<godbyk> weird.
<godbyk> okay, I'll just email 'em to ya.
<thorwil> resolution to 69.163.168.200 is correct?
<godbyk> thorwil: sent.
<godbyk> thorwil: yep, that's it.
<thorwil> got the mail
<thorwil> godbyk: good
<godbyk> 'kay.  I'll go with those then.
<godbyk> anything else important that should go on the copyright page?
<godbyk> I fixed the blank pages before the index (it was adding an extra blank page).
<godbyk> now the pdf is sitting at 164 pages, which is quite handy as it's evenly divisible by 4.
<godbyk> though I'm still considering the schmutztitel.
<thorwil> godbyk: i just exported the lulu cover from inkscape to a 300 dpi png and rendered a pdf of the same via gimp to do a visual diff. they are identical
<thorwil> couldn't be sure about that anymore
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I don't blame yout.
<godbyk> you, rather.
<godbyk> I just finished surveying the perfect bound books on my shelves and all but two of them had half-title pages.
<thorwil> humphreybc1, godbyk: once i get that ubuntu logo, shall we run with just the current design with this single addition, or do you still want quotes on there?
<godbyk> I'm okay with the current design. I don't know if humphreybc1 still wants quotes or not. I'm not sure if he got more than the one.
<godbyk> I think the quotes probably aren't necessary for the hard copy, since it's not sitting on a shelf hoping someone buys it.
<godbyk> if you're looking at a hard copy, then you (or someone) has already bought it.
<godbyk> thorwil: how strongly against half-title pages are you?
<godbyk> I'm proposing to use them in the printed book, but not in the on-screen pdf.
<thorwil> godbyk: strong like the hut of the first of the 3 pigs
<godbyk> lol!
<godbyk> thorwil: okay, let me whip one up real quick and we'll see how it looks.
<godbyk> are you at all tempted by colophons?
<thorwil> you mean production notes?
<godbyk> basically, yeah. typefaces used, any special production notes, etc.
<thorwil> nice to have. shows some respect/support to the projects we benefit from
<thorwil> typefaces first, inkscape last or not at all ;)
<godbyk> at this point, I'm almost loathe to mention inkscape at all with as much trouble as it's given us!
<godbyk> I'll type up some notes and run 'em past ya.
<thorwil> yeah, there's just really no alternative for the work i did on the titlepage. could have assembled the parts in scribus, perhaps, but created them
<godbyk> yeah, inkscape has sucked away a lot of our time.
<godbyk> we *could* have done it in LaTeX itself, but that brings its own problems -- namely, that you're fiddling with numbers all the time instead of just moving things around and aligning them by eye.
<ubuntujenkins> this is strange irc still works the textlive download is still going but I can't view any webpages
<godbyk> thorwil: were the icons on the cover designed by us or did we snag those from somewhere?
<thorwil> godbyk: the globe and the pseudo-text have shapes taken from the Humanity icon set. rest from scratch
<godbyk> thorwil: do we need to cite that (or should we)?
<thorwil> godbyk: actually, the mouse pointer is from that set, too, i mean to recall
<thorwil> vish: ^ what do you think?
<thorwil> godbyk: i think it's the right thing to do
<vish> meh , i dont know squat about copyrights!
<godbyk> vish: what license are the icons under?
<vish> "This package is licensed under GNU General Public License version 2."
<vish> from the authors file   ^ , still dont know what it means though ;p
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> so we're not required to cite the source.
<godbyk> so the question is just 'should we?' :)
<ubuntujenkins> I think it would be nice to if we have some where good to put it
<godbyk> thorwil: I've emailed you the colophon as it looks right now.
<godbyk> for those who can actually get to my website, it's online at: http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/colophon.pdf
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: we've got someplace to put it now. :)
<ubuntujenkins> can you mail it to me i cant get onto webpages but can recive e-mails
<godbyk> sure. what address, ubuntujenkins?
<thorwil> godbyk: now i can get that pdf
<ubuntujenkins> in that case put it in as I would apreciate it being put in if it was my work. ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sent
<godbyk> thorwil: great!
<godbyk> Also, I would normally mention that, say, the title page and cover was designed by thorwil, the book interior was designed by blah, etc.
<godbyk> Do we want to call out individuals or just let them reside in the credits with everyone else?
<godbyk> (I'm leaning toward the latter, as I don't suppose the designers are more important than the authors and translators, but that's just me.)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I like it, especially the quickshot one :)
<godbyk> (since we're not listing authors on the title page like you normally would to give them more prominence.)
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> I think all in the credits
<thorwil> godbyk: "The pointer arrow, globe and the documents pictogram on the title page are made of or contain shapes taken form the Humanity icon set."??
<godbyk> are there other tools that we relied on that should be mentioned?
<godbyk> thorwil: sure. works for me.  do we have a url for the humanity icon set?
<godbyk> (since I'm linking to everyone else)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you guys should get quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org (or quickshot.org or whatnot) set up sometime. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yep I will speak with everyone soon about it letting this release of the manual roll through
<thorwil> godbyk: wait, "The title page pictograms contain shapes taken from the Humanity icon set."
<godbyk> thorwil: I like that better.  More concise.
<thorwil> godbyk: https://launchpad.net/humanity
<thorwil> vish: there's no project homepage for Humanity, besides the LP page, right?
<vish> nope..
<ubuntujenkins> also godbyk do you know how big the texlive svn repo is?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no clue. I'm guessing it'd be huge, though.
<thorwil> godbyk: i don't think calling out individuals belongs in the production notes
<godbyk> Are there any other tools we used that I've left out of the list?
<godbyk> thorwil: fair enough.
<thorwil> godbyk: bzr?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: it is at 2.9 gb so far but its going at 18kiB/s the sever is so slow.
<godbyk> I think svn has built-in throttles so it's always slow.  At least it seems that way with all the servers I've used.
<ubuntujenkins> that sucks
<godbyk> I've updated the colophon.pdf file at the url above if you want to double-check my spelling and everything.
<thorwil> godbyk: both lines refering to the title page should be paired
<thorwil> godbyk: easiest to achive by moving "îe screenshots were captured using îiîºshot," one up
<godbyk> thorwil: good call
<godbyk> should we promote Quickshot or demote it a line?
<ubuntujenkins> promote it :) we need the advertising
<thorwil> promote
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: works for me! :)
<godbyk> I've just uploaded the latest draft to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
<godbyk> (I'm going to regenerate the half-title page PDF on my lucid laptop so it doesn't look so crappy)
<godbyk> whoops.. forgot to set it to print instead of screen.
<godbyk> one moment
<godbyk> okay, now the print version is uploaded
<godbyk> er.. uploading.. in progress.
<godbyk> *Now* it's uploaded.
<godbyk> okay, fixed the half-title page.
<godbyk> assuming that aren't any horrible bugs that cause me to add or remove pages, we're sitting at 168 pages.
<godbyk> so let me plug those numbers into lulu and get thorwil his final dimensions for the cover.
<godbyk> thorwil: final cover dimensions are:
<godbyk> Spine width: 27.08 Postscript points wide (0.376")
<godbyk> Spine begins 621 Postscript points (8.63") from the left.
<godbyk> Total cover width: 1269.08 X 810 Postscript points (17.63" X 11.25")
<godbyk> those dimensions include the 0.125" border that's trimmed (for the full bleed).
<nisshh> hehehe, guess what i just did?
<godbyk> nisshh: what?
<nisshh> hacked my parents xp machine since they were abusing my net connection
<nisshh> hehehe
<nisshh> so fun
<godbyk> nice
<nisshh> they are all standing around it going "what the hell?"
<nisshh> serves them right
<nisshh> brb, dinnertime
<godbyk> nisshh: now the real question is, were they abusing *your* net connection, or are you trying to freeload off *their* net connection? :)
<bittin> Hello, do you need more Swedish Translators_
<bittin> ?
<godbyk> Hey, bittin. Quite possibly.
<bittin> =) then i should try to look into that, just listned to latest Full Circle Magazine Podcast and heard about this project :)
<godbyk> bittin: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+lang/sv
<godbyk> Cool!
<ubuntujenkins> bittin: I think artnay is doing swedish i think he would welcome the help
<bittin> iam a bit tired today tough coded and sleept 4hours tonight, but will look into it tommorow =)
<godbyk> bittin: You'll probably want to glance through the translators' chapter in this PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<godbyk> that'll help you figure out which parts you should and shouldn't translate.
<godbyk> but if you have any questions, feel free to ask away.
<bittin> godbyk: will do that :)
<godbyk> awesome
<bittin> btw on a little offtopic note: you know if i can preorder Ubuntu 10.04 cds from shipit yet?
<godbyk> bittin: I'm not sure if you can yet or not.
<happyaron> hi, I wonder which tex we use? latex or xetex
<ubuntujenkins> I think i saw an omg ubuntu post saying you can
<bittin> seems like you can :)
<bittin> me likes latex
<happyaron> bittin: can I switch to use xetex to produce my pdf (for zh_CN)
<bittin> dunno =(
<godbyk> happyaron: We're using XeLaTeX to make translations work more easily.
<happyaron> godbyk: so can we generate zh_CN books? or can you tell me how to try it out?
<godbyk> happyaron: I'm hoping we can.  I haven't set up all the Chinese stuff yet, though.
<godbyk> happyaron: You can see the current Chinese PDFs here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<happyaron> godbyk: our team want's to make sure things can work so that we can kick off the translation work
<godbyk> Once I've got the English version of the manual released (only two more days to go), I'll start working on setting up the translated manuals.
<happyaron> that sounds good
<godbyk> happyaron: I understand.  Have you used XeTeX before?  If so, I may pester you for help if I get stuck. :)
<happyaron> godbyk: sorry I know very little about tex, and just tried ConTeX before, :)
<godbyk> Gotcha.
<godbyk> Well, we'll get it all worked out.
<godbyk> If you guys do the translations, we'll find a way to make it work. :-)
<bittin> do you have any mailinglist?
<happyaron> godbyk: there is another problem that we don't know how to translate the control sets (I mean the gramma of tex)
<happyaron> bittin: are you asking me?
<bittin> iam asking the whole channel :)
<ubuntujenkins> bittin: join https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual and the mailing list is at the bottom
<bittin> ah ok
<happyaron> godbyk: and looking at the current build, it seems that there isn't a Chinese font in use
<bittin> will do that
<godbyk> happyaron: Yes, the mailing list is on the left-hand side of this page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> happyaron: that could very well be. I think when I first started searching for fonts for all the languages, the Chinese translation didn't exist yet.
<bittin> thanks
<bittin> now i should continue powernapping, but will look into some swedish translating tommorow
<bittin> and learning LateX
<godbyk> happyaron: You'll probably want to glance through the translators' chapter in this PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<godbyk> happyaron: It'll show you what parts to translate and which parts to leave as-is.
<bittin> downloaded style-guide now
<happyaron> godbyk: that's good
<bittin> cya tommorow =)
<ubuntujenkins> bye bittin
<godbyk> See ya later, bittin!
<happyaron> godbyk: can I recommend several Chinese fonts for you now? I mean free fonts
<godbyk> happyaron: As you're translating, if you have any questions feel free to email the list or pop in here.
<godbyk> happyaron: Yes, please do!
<happyaron> godbyk: wqy-microhei, wqy-zenhei
<godbyk> I've not typeset Chinese before, so I don't know which fonts look the best for a book.
<happyaron> godbyk:
<happyaron> godbyk: ukai, uming
<happyaron> godbyk: these four are the best ones
<godbyk> happyaron: Cool.  Which do you think would work best for the text of a book?  And which for the headings?
<happyaron> godbyk: wqy-microhei for headings, uming for text
<godbyk> Okay.
<ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
<Daker> hello
<Daker> humphreybc1, ping
<godbyk> Daker: I think he's still watching Avatar.
<Daker> can someone explain this :"Create a "star" feature thing that shows the manual available on lulu.com - I'll do a mockup of what I want soon and email it to you."
<hemanth> the translation link on the wall of The Ubuntu Manual is broken?
<godbyk> Daker: He had a mockup someplace.  But basically he wants a callout that mentions we have printed versions of the book available.
<godbyk> hemanth: It is?
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: what wall facebook?
<godbyk> Daker: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual-print.png
<godbyk> Daker: It doesn't need to look exactly like that.  That's just the general idea he's talking about.
<hemanth> godbyk, seems so
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, http://www.facebook.com/#!/ubuntumanual
<Daker> godbyk, ah oki
<ubuntujenkins> last psot right hemanth. I can fix it
<hemanth> yup ubuntujenkins
<godbyk> ah.. facebook converted the + to a space (hex 20)
<Daker> lulu.com doesn't provide these things ?
<godbyk> Daker: not that I know of.
<ubuntujenkins> I have commented on the post with a new link
<hemanth> godbyk, FB fail ah ? ;)
<godbyk> when thorwil's finished with the cover, I'll be able to give you a link to our book on the lulu site.
<godbyk> hemanth: apparently.
 * ubuntujenkins is a facebook group admin
<hemanth> :)
<ubuntujenkins> wow Malaysia is our most active country
 * godbyk has no idea if he's a fb group admin or not.
 * Daker too
<ubuntujenkins> ask humphreybc1
<godbyk> As long as no one needs me to mess around with the FB page, I'm happy to leave that to others. :)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, deb file is ready now...[its very naive i know]
<Daker> brb
<humphreybc1> what's happening people?
<godbyk> Finally done watching Avatar, humphreybc1?
<humphreybc1> yup!
<humphreybc1> it IS 3 hours long after all
<humphreybc1> daker, godbyk, you're now admins on FB
<daker> Ohhhh
<godbyk> Oh, yay. :P
<daker> hello humphreybc1
<humphreybc1> hey daker!
<humphreybc1> long time no see :P
<daker> yep
<daker> exams :)
<humphreybc1> ah, fair enough
<humphreybc1> are they finished now?
<daker> yes
<humphreybc1> nice. There's lots to do :P
<daker> i started working yesterday with godbyk
<nisshh> godbyk: nah its a shared net connection, they were abusing the download speed...
<daker> www.ubuntu-manual.org is pointing to the folder "main" on the branch & test.ubuntu-manual.org is pointing to the "test" folder
<nisshh> daker: yesterday we were all like: where the hell is daker?
<nisshh> "we need you daker!"
<daker> oh
<godbyk> nisshh: who pays for it? :)
<nisshh> my parents
<nisshh> unfortunantly
<godbyk> heh.
<godbyk> so it's really *their* internet.. :)
<humphreybc1> daker, no worries. There's a new video to go on the Contributors page. I'm sorry I left you out the first time, but I've re-rendered it and you're now in the video :)
<nisshh> yea, but it makes me feel sick just thinking that
<nisshh> since they dont even know how to use it!
<humphreybc1> We also need to make sure when the countdown reaches zero, the main page changes to the correct home page (with the fading animation of the pictures and the download link + features)
<humphreybc1> the download links need to work, too
<godbyk> nisshh: heh. I've been there.
<nisshh> godbyk: yea, not funny is it?
<humphreybc1> and also, we need to make sure the language selection on ubuntu-manual.org/downloads lists only languages that are actually available (ie, finished)
<godbyk> nisshh: moving out fixed a lot of those issues. :)
<daker> oki humphreybc1
<godbyk> I think I had set up a router that shaped the bandwidth to guarantee I always had most of it.
<nisshh> godbyk: too bad they still claim ownership of me!!!
 * nisshh shakes fist at his parents
<humphreybc1> daker: any more questions, ask me asap because i'm having an early night tonight (9am lab tomorrow)
<nisshh> godbyk: i use about 80% of the bandwidth currently, they just happen to leave stuff running in the background all the time that is constantly downloading/uploading data
<godbyk> nisshh: ah, that sucks.
<humphreybc1> godbyk, thorwil, give the design team until the end of this working day to get the Ubuntu logo SVG to us. If they haven't emailed it to us by then, upload the PDFs to lulu.com without it.
<nisshh> godbyk: yea and they use XP still so i cant do a: pkill all-the-shit-on-my-parents-computer
<humphreybc1> it's currently just about 1pm in London
<humphreybc1> so they have another 4 hours.
<godbyk> humphreybc1: 'kay.
<thorwil> ok
<humphreybc1> shit, 36 hours till launch :S
<godbyk> yep.
<godbyk> You better be at the party, humphreybc1!
<humphreybc1> let's see, it'll be midday friday for me, i should be there :)
<ubuntujenkins> what time is it released in the uk?
<humphreybc1> the manual?
<humphreybc1> or lucid?
<ubuntujenkins> manual, i have had lucid for ages :)
<humphreybc1> let's see, it'll be about 1am your time :)
<godbyk> It'll be released whenever I feel like uploading it. ;-)
<humphreybc1> UTC 0000 I think
<humphreybc1> heh
<godbyk> And not a moment sooner!
<humphreybc1> yeah, pretty much
<ubuntujenkins> I might be awake not sure
<humphreybc1> the page will go up at midnight on wednesday/thursday
<humphreybc1> (UTC, that is)
<humphreybc1> no wait
 * humphreybc1 is confused
<humphreybc1> as long as we get it out before Friday :P
<godbyk> Somewhere (on the FB page, maybe) someone said it was to be released at 12 PM UTC (which is 1200 UTC, not 0000 UTC).
<humphreybc1> yeah
<humphreybc1> I think the countdown stops 12 hours before that
<humphreybc1> gives us 12 hours to make sure everything's right?
<ubuntujenkins> thats what confused me
<humphreybc1> it'll work out
<daker> our countdown stops at "2010, 3, 29 , 12, 00, 00"
<humphreybc1> uh
<godbyk> Whatever. I'm hoping to have everything in place before all that anyway. :)
<humphreybc1> yeah
<humphreybc1> when the countdown reaches zero, just change one line of code and push
<humphreybc1> everything works :P
<daker> yes
<humphreybc1> that's the theory, anyway
<godbyk> yep
<godbyk> I think I'll leave all this in daker's hands and go get some sleep. :)
<humphreybc1> heh
<humphreybc1> i'm gonna go to bed in a sec too
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk and humphreybc1
<humphreybc1> daker, anything you need to know, ask now!
<daker> one sec
<daker> fine
<daker> go to sleep humphreybc1
<humphreybc1> godbyk, you converted the new video and stuck it in the right place?
<godbyk> humphreybc1: yep.
<humphreybc1> good good
<godbyk> same place as before.
<humphreybc1> godbyk, what text should we have in the star?
<humphreybc1> currently it's "Did you know you can buy the manual in print?"
<godbyk> Hmm.. I dunno.  Maybe just, 'Buy the book now!'
<godbyk> It shouldn't be a question.. it should be an action.
<humphreybc1> hm
<humphreybc1> well in that case, on the download button we should have "Download for Free!"
<humphreybc1> and then in the star "Buy the book!"
<humphreybc1> So people don't get confuzzled
<humphreybc1> "(00:03:35) iainfarrell: so I have been given the OK on the guide, am just waiting on the files now"
<humphreybc1> "(00:03:41) iainfarrell: once I have those I can share them"
<humphreybc1> "(00:03:48) humphreybc1: email em straight to Thorsten :)"
<godbyk> good
<humphreybc1> "(00:03:52) iainfarrell: will do"
<ubuntujenkins> is that the logo?
<humphreybc1> thorwil: once you get the logo, stick it in the cover and give it to godbyk
<humphreybc1> godbyk, upload it as soon as soon as possible
<humphreybc1> :)
<godbyk> yeppers
<humphreybc1> then once it's available to purchase, give the purchase link to daker so he can hyperlink the star, and copy me in so I can buy a copy
 * humphreybc1 is buying a copy and shipping it to doctormo's house, who is bringing it to UDS
<godbyk> fun
<godbyk> when's UDS?
<humphreybc1> yup, but i need to make sure it arrives before Martin leaves
<humphreybc1> May 10th - 14th
<humphreybc1> Martin will be leaving next friday I think
<humphreybc1> and if it takes 5 business days to ship, it might be cutting it rather fine
<godbyk> well, you could always pay for faster shipping.
<godbyk> you'll probably have to.
<humphreybc1> kay
<godbyk> I'm not sure how long it takes to process the order (print it).
<humphreybc1> okay
<godbyk> humphreybc1: When I list the book on the lulu site, I'll need a list of keywords (tags) to include along with the description.
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> um
<humphreybc1> I'm sure we can come up with some nice words
<godbyk> maybe email the list and ask for suggestions, too. I don't care. :)
<humphreybc1> kay
<humphreybc1> so for release, we need to have a mother metric shit tonne of hype
<godbyk> humphreybc1: that's what you're here for. :)
<humphreybc1> heh
<godbyk> humphreybc1: When I added my previous lulu book to the cart, it says it ships in 3-5 business days.
<godbyk> humphreybc1: and the hardcover edition says 10-15 business days.
<humphreybc1> hm okay
<humphreybc1> what's the next step up?
<humphreybc1> 2 - 4 days?
<godbyk> no, no.. that's the amount of time before they ship the book.. not before it arrives.
<godbyk> so 3-5 days + shipping time = time before book arrives.
<humphreybc1> oh
<humphreybc1> shit
<godbyk> humphreybc1: https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?procId=3f90e5ca51ccacbcba3ac4244d1919e4
<godbyk> humphreybc1: and https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?id=3df8f1868451c350--3ccc0178-1258d4d49d9--7f18&fromProcRevs=5d3751aa33726de81e46720196940111
<humphreybc1> hmm
<humphreybc1> how much is Express?
<humphreybc1> I'll probably have to go for Expedited
<humphreybc1> or just get it shipped to belgium?
<godbyk> heh.. you could, I s'pose.
<godbyk> if there's someone in Belgium to receive it for you.
<humphreybc1> the hotel?
<godbyk> (or you contact the hotel first)
<humphreybc1> it would probably arrive while i'm there
<popey> :)
<popey> will you be signing copies :)
<humphreybc1> hehehe
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc1> popey: sure
<humphreybc1> popey: what do you think? ship it to the hotel?
<godbyk> just for popey
<humphreybc1> I want to have a copy to show off at UDS :P
<humphreybc1> also, godbyk, we should order a copy and ship it around the world to each key contributor to get a heap of signatures
<popey> should be enough time surely?
<humphreybc1> popey: hmm. It reckons it takes 3-5 business days to actually *make* the book, then it takes anywhere from 1 - 5 business days to ship it inside the USA, depending on how much you spend on shipping. My plan was to ship it to doctormo and he said he'd take it across the atlantic for me.
<popey> sounds like a plan
<godbyk> it says there may be additional shipping time for our book since it's only printed in the US.  if I set up a special edition just for humphreybc1 with the cheaper paper, it may get there a little bit faster, I'm not sure.
<popey> thats LuLu is it?
<humphreybc1> or, popey, i could ship it to the hotel in Brussels
<godbyk> popey: yeah
<humphreybc1> I'm there for a week, after all
<popey> http://www.lulu.com/uk
<humphreybc1> (get it shipped to popey perhaps?)
<humphreybc1> :P
<popey> if they do printing inthe UK, yeah
<popey> 2 days in the uk it says
<humphreybc1> to print or ship?
<popey> ship
<popey> 1-2
<humphreybc1> that's pretty good
<godbyk> Wow.. the UK is so tiny! :)
<popey> go to lulu.com/uk and click "shipping" down the bottom
<humphreybc1> should we do that then?
<godbyk> That's if we use the cheap paper.
<c7p> hello guys
<humphreybc1> they only print on cheap paper in the UK?
<popey> they can ship on saturday too
<daker> brb
<godbyk> The nicer paper is apparently only printed in the US.
<humphreybc1> how bad is the cheap paper?
<godbyk> https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?id=3df8f1868451c350--3ccc0178-1258d4d49d9--7f18&fromProcRevs=5d3751aa33726de81e46720196940111
<godbyk> per the asterisk.
<popey> nice url
<godbyk> I don't know, I haven't used it.
<godbyk> popey:  no kidding.. they're all like that.
<humphreybc1> godbyk, i spose you could do a special edition for yours truly
<humphreybc1> I might buy a couple of copies then, since it'll be cheaper with the cheap paper
<godbyk> I should switch my website from kevin.godby.org to dce8e3f9-3834-403b-a073-8aac6ee7bc6d.com.
<humphreybc1> (give one to Mark?) hehe
<popey> well, if you decide you want one shipped to the UK, lemme know
<humphreybc1> popey: will do, thanks
<godbyk> 'kay. I'll set up one using the cheap paper just for you, then. :)
<humphreybc1> :)
<godbyk> You'll save $0.005/page.  Yay!
<humphreybc1> how much is it with the cheap paper? $6 USD or something right?
<humphreybc1> I bet you it's just recycled toilet paper
<popey> why recycle?
<humphreybc1> heh
<humphreybc1> just used toilet paper, then
<humphreybc1> lovely
<godbyk> humphreybc1: something like that, yeah.
<humphreybc1> i should really drop this 1 from my nick
<humphreybc1> we'll want to make sure we have those counting scripts set up, so we can really see if we reach our download goal :)
 * ubuntujenkins starts ripping up the old quickhsot branch
<godbyk> looks like $6.52 for the cheap paper and $9.70 for the nicer paper.
<humphreybc1> and give godbyk's dreamhost server an aneurysm
<humphreybc1> heh
<humphreybc1> + shipping is...?
<godbyk> no clue
<humphreybc1> okay
<godbyk> won't know 'til you get to the checkout process, I imagine.
<humphreybc1> i was going to do the math and currency conversion to see if i can afford more than one copy :P
<humphreybc1> (of my own creation, fitting, really)
<humphreybc1> anyone else use Pidgin in here?
<humphreybc1> (as an IRC client)
<godbyk> I use pidgin, but not for irc.  I use xchat for that.
<godbyk> (and not that watered-down gnome version, either!) :)
<daker> xchat too
<godbyk> okay, guys. I'm gonna head to bed.
<godbyk> I'll be back in 6-8 hours.
<humphreybc1> kk
<c7p> on string 1285 it says "Not sure about this bit - probably needs to be fleshed out some more for next release --jaminday" and under this string there is a 'type: comment'
<humphreybc1> c7p: is that in the final PDF?
<c7p> no
<humphreybc1> okay, good!
<c7p> i can find it on launchpad
<godbyk> at least I hope it's not
<humphreybc1> don't translate it
<c7p> and other similar strings
<c7p> ok
<godbyk> if it is, tell me where and I'll fix it when I awake.
<godbyk> I need to figure out how to get po4a to just not even mention the comments to the translators.
<godbyk> we also need to remove all the obsolete comments sometime.
<humphreybc1> yeah
<c7p> yeah there are some of them
<humphreybc1> we should pour some more work into po4a
<godbyk> maybe.  we'll look into the whole translation toolchain at some point.
<thorwil> godbyk: there's about 1 tenth of a mm gap between a truly centered spine and the given offset from left side, but aside of that, the svg no conforms to the new measures ;)
<godbyk> thorwil: awesome.
<humphreybc1> godbyk, will the cheaper paper affect the thickness of the book?
<godbyk> thorwil: since their printing process is rather inaccurate, that 0.1mm gap will be enlarged anyway. :)
<godbyk> humphreybc1: probably, yes.
<humphreybc1> godbyk: so does that mean my special edition will have screwed up covers?
<godbyk> but since it's just a cheap copy, I'll use the same PDF and let lulu crop it or something.
<thorwil> godbyk: good thing i'm not a mechanical engineer
<godbyk> well, it won't be *that* different.
<humphreybc1> okay
<humphreybc1> i don't want some thing to show off that looks like it's been nuked
<humphreybc1> that wouldn't be a good look
<c7p> and another question. The https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/1283/+translate shouldn't be translated, right ?
 * humphreybc1 likes how launchpad lets you link to exact strings
<c7p> :p
<humphreybc1> c7p: no, don't translate it
<godbyk> standard paper says the spine width will be 27.24 pt.  Publisher grade says it should be 22.82 pt.
<c7p> ok
<godbyk> So a 5 pt difference in spine width between the two types of paper.
<humphreybc1> godbyk, that's quite a big difference
<godbyk> well, here are the full specs if you want to sweet-talk thorwil into design a cover for your one-off copy:
<godbyk> Spine width: 22.82 Postscript points wide (0.317")
<godbyk> Cover size: 1264.82 x 810 Postscript points (17.567" x 11.250")
<godbyk> Spine begins: 621 Postscript points from the left (8.625")
<humphreybc1> do lulu have somebody actually check the books as they go out? ie, not machiens
<godbyk> no clue.
<humphreybc1> sigh
 * thorwil crosses arms in front of chest and stares at godbyk and humphreybc1
<humphreybc1> i guess i'll just cross my fingers my edition isn't screwed up
<godbyk> humphreybc1: pretty much, yeah.
<humphreybc1> thorwil: entirely up to you if you want do a one off cover :)
<humphreybc1> (with the smaller spine)
 * godbyk fears inkscape will just barf all over it
<godbyk> and, thorwil, just think of all the covers for all the translations.. :-)
<godbyk> (they'll have varying page counts, so varying dimensions.  joy!)
<humphreybc1> oh god, all the translations will be different
<godbyk> and with that good cheer, I think I'll go dream happy dreams.
<godbyk> see you guys later!
<humphreybc1> :D
<c7p> cu
<c7p> when will the next meeting take place ?
<humphreybc1> not sure, sometime after release
<c7p> ok
<humphreybc1> probably during the week, actually
<c7p> this week?
<humphreybc1> maybe
<thorwil> humphreybc1: 1.5 mm difference in spine width. if lulu accepts the too large whole width, the effect of chopping that bit off should be so negligible that i will not care for a one-off
<humphreybc1> maybe next week
<c7p> oh
<humphreybc1> thorwil: ahh, fair enough then
<thorwil> humphreybc1: if there shall be translated lulu covers, we need something more clever than manual fiddling
<humphreybc1> true
<thorwil> one could assemble the static front and back with a spine of varying width (spine content simply centered), but the wave of friends running across all 3 ruins that option
<daker> humphreybc1, i need a small sentence
<daker> something like this
<daker> You Language doesn't exist click here to get informed when complet
<daker> Your*
<humphreybc1> kk one sec
<humphreybc1> thorwil: can we do some magical tile pattern with the wave of friends?
<humphreybc1> daker, "We're sorry, but the language you have selected hasn't finished being translated. To help with the translation, click here or to find out when this translation is available, click here."
<humphreybc1> actually
<humphreybc1> "We're sorry, but the language you have selected hasn't finished being translated. To help with the translation, click here, otherwise enter your email address below and we'll let you know when it's done."
<thorwil> humphreybc1: hmm? the way the cover layout works, with horizontal positions of some elements related to the dots (or gaps), you need to treat the entire content as one block and just put it on page of the appropriate width to have enough material for the spine
<humphreybc1> right
<daker> how can we email people ? feedburner ? or what ?
<humphreybc1> daker: not sure... you'll have to talk to godbyk about setting up some database or something
<thorwil> humphreybc1: you know i'm not a native speaker, but doesn't that sentence suggest the language itself is occupied with being translated?
<humphreybc1> thorwil: what I meant was take a little slice of the wave of friends and repeat it
<humphreybc1> thorwil: yes, but we'll only be listing languages that are actually being worked on
<humphreybc1> oh
<humphreybc1> wait
<humphreybc1> i see what you mean
<humphreybc1> ""We're sorry, but the manual hasn't finished being translated into the language you selected. To help with the translation, click here, otherwise enter your email address below and we'll let you know when it's done.""
<humphreybc1> there, that's better. sorry
<godbyk-android> Daker: I think I emailed you some language for that a while back, but I might be wrong.
<godbyk-android> (not at my computer now)
<thorwil> humphreybc1: i can give you the smallest repeatable part of the wave of friends, if you see a use for that
<godbyk-android> As for emails, just collect then in a database table four now (including the language they're looking for) and I will set up announce lists later
<daker> godbyk-android, oki
<humphreybc1> thorwil: well what I was thinking is just have the wave expand if the spine gets wider, or reduce if the spine gets thinner. Or, actually, why not just run the circle of friends over the top of the thing and it won't matter if it expands or reduces in size, as long as the text is centered between the two rules
<godbyk-android> Just let the wave extend beyond the page borders and crop it to the page on expert to pdf
<humphreybc1> yeah
<humphreybc1> exackery
<thorwil> humphreybc1: we are likely talking about very few mm. not enough to add elements to the wave or take them out. the wave does extend beyond the page
<godbyk-android> Export rather
<thorwil> godbyk-android: that's what happens
<humphreybc1> thorwil: so what's the problem exactly?
<godbyk-android> Maybe I'm not following what humphreybc1  is on about then.
<thorwil> humphreybc1: at some point things will become funny if you make the page wider for a wider spine, as the wave pattern is placed such that no heads are cut
<humphreybc1> ah, right
<godbyk-android> We could scale the band to keep the proportions and cuts.
<thorwil> forgot to add a frame, but: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/3a77c8b5755489b1869af9d0c9097e80
<thorwil> see how everything is locked
<thorwil> anyway, coffee, bbl
<humphreybc1> lol
<humphreybc1> godbyk, http://twitter.com/davidsiegel latest tweet
<godbyk-android> Agreed
<humphreybc1> godbyk-android: looks like they could use some of our help in gathering more data :P
<humphreybc1> we should build data collection into the PDF, so we can track which areas get read the most... implants in readers eyes
<humphreybc1> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=610
 * humphreybc1 does want
<humphreybc1> daker: Could you please add Chris Woollard to the contributors list under "translators" ?
<daker> sure
<ubuntujenkins>  /me shouts at quickshot and goes back to revision
 * ubuntujenkins shouts at quickshot and goes back to revision
<dutchie> yay, revisino
<ubuntujenkins> its electronics so not bad
<ChrisWoollard> RE: the final draft. The translators layout on the credits looks a little odd.  It feels like the "any many others" looks like it is in the wrong place.
<daker> hhhhhh what
<daker> ChrisWoollard, i think it in the right place
<daker> it's*
<daker> and not 'any many others' => 'and many others' :D
<ChrisWoollard> maybe you are right. It is probably me thinking horizontal alignment rather than vertical columns.
<daker> ah
<ChrisWoollard> Also I don't think I was thinking in the right order
<daker> so you should speak to godbyk
<ChrisWoollard> my children wanted to watch shaun the sheep
<daker> lol
<ChrisWoollard> :)
 * ubuntujenkins today is not my day quickshot is driving me up the wall
<daker> what's wrong ?
<ubuntujenkins> well the main branch has stopped working since this morning. but there has been no commits and a new branch on my computer doesn't work
<ubuntujenkins> and all the other quickshot stuff i have tried to do today has failed
<daker> wow
<thorwil> godbyk, godbyk-android: added and pushed titlepage/lulu_en.pdf. (still no ubuntu logo)
 * ubuntujenkins finally works out why it didn't work
<daker> ubuntujenkins, when we can start to work on the server side ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: when you like, i suggest you speak to Red_HamsterX, but I would like to start getting a page on quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org about the project
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: deals with the server stuff
<daker> the reply from the serer should be in xml ? json  ? or plain text ?
<ubuntujenkins> not really sure but currently we are reading a text file to get the info for what screenshots need to be done. the gui is my side really Red_Hamster-X is server. I have no server experince.
<daker> you can try to write something that can read xml file or that interpret json format
<ubuntujenkins> I will always try, tbh i have not read an xml file or a json file even with my eyes. I still don't know very much python I have allot to learn this release
<daker> oki
<dutchie> python has a json module built in
<dutchie> pretty sure there's an xml one too
<dutchie> yes, there is
<ubuntujenkins> ok i will look at those. There may have been a reason behind using plain text i don't know
<daker> ubuntujenkins, you should
<daker> xml format is very easy to interpret than the plain text
<daker> brb
<daker> .quit
<daker> thorwil, ping
<thorwil> daker: pong
<daker> the bug you found (the footer) still exist ?
<daker> try see pls
<thorwil> daker: footer layout is different now, but still running out of the page
<daker> ubuntujenkins, running FF 3.5.9 ?
<thorwil> daker: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/5685fd040678c5d0d4aa7a4c20169c8c
<ubuntujenkins> daker: 3.6.3
<daker> the footer looks odd ?
<ubuntujenkins> in english it is fine in german it is.........
 * ubuntujenkins uploads pic
<ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/94702
<daker> very odd because i am running 3.5.9 too
<daker> the same thing as ubuntujenkins http://imagebin.org/94703
 * ubuntujenkins gives up and goes to bed
<daker> night ubuntujenkins
<ChrisWoollard> How often to manual builds on http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ get rebuild?
<ChrisWoollard> I mean rebuilt
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: How often to manual builds on http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ get rebuilt?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Whenever I happen to get around to running the script.
<dutchie> heh
<ChrisWoollard> fair enough
<godbyk> It's not automated yet. It's just a bash script that I run after I've pulled the latest translations from Launchpad.
<godbyk> I'll run it again in a moment.
<godbyk> My Internet is on the fritz again today, apparently.
<dutchie> again?
<godbyk> dutchie: apparently.
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> stupid b\r
<ChrisWoollard> I know the feeling. I couple of weeks about I went away for the weekend and ended up staying in a place that had no Internet and only a very weak GPRS :(
<dutchie> bzr*
 * dutchie regrets not using git from the start
 * godbyk pines for the simpler days of CVS.
<godbyk> Okay, not really. :)
<dutchie> I now have a choice: 1) wait for someone in #bzr to tell me the bzr translation of "git add -p", 2) commit a massive mess of files that are all tangled up together or 3) carry on working and hope that I can untangle later
<dutchie> I suspect I'm going to end up with number 3
<dutchie> stupid disorganised workflow
<dutchie> I'll hope someone comes up with something overnight
<dutchie> night
<godbyk> g'night, dutchie
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-28
<godbyk> Okay, everyone.  I'm setting the manual up on the publishing site and I need a list of keywords (for search purposes).  Feel free to just toss out whatever you can think of.
<godbyk> I swiped the ones daker put on the website and added a couple: Ubuntu Manual, Ubuntu, lucid, lynx, 10.04, lucid lynx, help, documentation, book, pdf, ebook, free, open source
<ChrisWoollard> user guide
<godbyk> ooh, good one!
<humphreybc> hi all
<humphreybc> so what should I do, ship to popey?
<ChrisWoollard> handbook
<godbyk> That's entirely up to you.
<humphreybc> godbyk: heh "more from the Ubuntu Manual Team:" "Shiny Happy Users"
<godbyk> humphreybc: lovely.
<godbyk> I s'pose since I published both of them or something.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: you live in the UK right?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<godbyk> humphreybc: don't order yet.
<godbyk> let me double-check a couple things.
<humphreybc> could you please PM me your address, just so I can plug it in to the cart and see how much shipping in the UK will be?
<humphreybc> I'm not ordering yet
<humphreybc> just seeing how much it will cost me for more than one :)
<humphreybc> I'll get popey's address later, he'll be asleep now
<ChrisWoollard> as in postal
<humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: yep that would be good
<humphreybc> don't worry I'm not going to send anything to you!
<humphreybc> I just need a UK address to get to the next checkout screen so I can see prices
<godbyk> interesting: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/ubuntu-desktop-course---student-guide/5968838?productTrackingContext=product_view/related_items/left/1
<ChrisWoollard> sent
<humphreybc> godbyk: 60 bucks!
<humphreybc> holy moses shipping is expensive
<humphreybc> christ I don't even know if I can afford it
<humphreybc> $48.65 USD for expedited
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, that's why you're not ordering yet.
<humphreybc> is something going to change?
<godbyk> I need to make sure that's not the only-printed-in-the-US version.
<godbyk> bear with me.. lulu is making things more difficult for me than they should. :)
<godbyk> I have to unpublish this book and go through the whole process again to fix the license.
<godbyk> stupid lulu
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, the cheap-paper edition I linked you to is printed in the US only.
<godbyk> give me a couple minutes to fix up the real book and we'll see how cheap it is for you to ship
<humphreybc> I thought cheap paper was also printed in the UK?
<godbyk> https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?procId=e54777c589bdded765014fd54d4b9175&authToken=4164df01beab240156676552dfc16d57&forceLogout=true&locale=en_US
<godbyk> it only ships from the US, it says.
<humphreybc> much, much cheaper to ship that book to the US
<humphreybc> I plugged in Martin's address in Boston and it's given me $10 for expedited
<humphreybc> maybe i should just ship it to Martin, but faster
<ChrisWoollard> Anyway. I am tired. It is late. Again.... And I need to work tomorrow. Night all.
<godbyk> G'night, ChrisWoollard.
<ChrisWoollard> Humphreybc: Feel free to sendme stuff ;)
<humphreybc> WHY DO THEY GET ME TO ENTER IN MY CC DETAILS BEFORE SHOWING ME THE TOTAL COST
<ChrisWoollard> Hmmm. Maybe I will end up with free stuff then.....
<humphreybc> so it's gonna cost me $44 to get two copies to Martin in Boston, or it would be about $65 to get two copies to Alan in the UK
<humphreybc> that's NZD
 * humphreybc thinks Mark should just buy me a copy of my own dang book
<godbyk> What's it in USD?
<humphreybc> 32
<humphreybc> 32 USD = 44 NZD apparently
<godbyk> well, that's not so bad for two copies shipped super-quickly.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> that's to the US
<humphreybc> so are you re-uploading?
<godbyk> I think those to links should be okay now.
<humphreybc> could you link it again, just to make sure
<godbyk> It wasn't the PDF that was the problem, it was the metadata (specifically, the license was set to a standard copyright instead of the CC license).
<godbyk> I PMed the links to you.
<humphreybc> huh?
<godbyk> gah.
<humphreybc> I got that email
<godbyk> I sent them to humphreybc1, apparently.
<humphreybc> is that what you mean?
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> heh
<godbyk> just a sec
<humphreybc> no, i'm humphreybc :P
<godbyk> did you get them this time?
<humphreybc> yep
<godbyk> Here are PDFs of that Ubuntu Desktop Guide that's on lulu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Training/PDFs
<humphreybc> yeah, i've seen them before
<humphreybc> they're old and boring
<godbyk> ah
<humphreybc> HOLY CRAP BATMAN!!! LESS THAN 24 HOURS TILL RELEASE
<happyaron> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> happyaron: pong
<happyaron> godbyk: I just asked people in my team, they suggest wqy-microhei for titles, ukai for text in zh_CN
<happyaron> godbyk: and prefer to have these fonts embeded to PDF file
<godbyk> Cool.  I'll use those, then.
<godbyk> The fonts will be embedded in the PDF.
<happyaron> godbyk: wqy-micorhei can be found here http://sourceforge.net/projects/wqy/files/
<happyaron> godbyk: we prefer to use the latest microhei release because it's still under development
<godbyk> Okay, I'll be sure to grab it from sourceforge then.
<happyaron> godbyk: and for ukai, it's available in ubuntu's repository
<godbyk> And the version of Ukai from the repositories is okay to use?
<godbyk> Or should I download a later version from someplace?
<happyaron> godbyk: ttf-arphic-ukai package is okay
<godbyk> 'kay.
<happyaron> godbyk: for English fonts, up to your choice, heh
<godbyk> Fair enough. :)
<happyaron> ï¼ï¼
<happyaron> another question, which series we should translate, e1 or e2?
<godbyk> happyaron: Well, e1 is in a string freeze, so it's stable to translate.
<godbyk> We're going to start editing e2 next week, so the strings will be changing out from under you all the time.
<godbyk> You're welcome to translate whichever you prefer, but with e2 you risk having to translate the same paragraph repeatedly as it's edited.
<happyaron> godbyk: then when will e2 be string freeze?
<godbyk> Let me look.
<nisshh> godbyk: are we having a meeting about e2 this week or next week?
<nisshh> happyaron: i think e2 will hit string freeze around about june/july
<nisshh> most likely june
<godbyk> Yeah, I don't see a specific date right off.  I think we're planning to release e2 on July 29.
<happyaron> ok, thx
<godbyk> The string freeze for Maverick will be on August 20. And the release for Maverick will be Oct 29.
<happyaron> oh
<humphreybc> we're actually cutting it quite close to fit two releases into one cycle
<happyaron> in fact, we still haven't had an plan for Maverick
<godbyk> I think most of the e2 changes will be bug fixes we didn't have time to get to in e1.
<happyaron> for Lucid it's a LTS version, so we'd like to have a good one for it first
<godbyk> So it may be best to translate e1 and then skip e2 and translate Maverick.  I'm not really sure.
<godbyk> Right.
<nisshh> so we arent planning on adding in sections like wubi and ubuntu one for e2?
<godbyk> I don't know what all is going into e2.
<godbyk> I haven't put any thought into it yet. I've been focused solely on e1 lately. :-)
<nisshh> humphreybc: should we have a meeting soon about e2?
<godbyk> If someone writes the content for wubi and ubuntu one, we could add it.
<nisshh> godbyk: yea, so have we all
<humphreybc> don't look at me!
<nisshh> hmmm, well id like to do some more work on the glossary and my chapter
<nisshh> for e2 of course :)
<humphreybc> i think we should gather some data and feedback on this release before we have a meeting to decide what to stick in e2
<nisshh> humphreybc: so survey?
<humphreybc> so then we can make informed decisions at the meeting :)
<humphreybc> yeah, survey, download stats, ra ra ra
<nisshh> yea, good point
<nisshh> ill have a think about some questions we need to ask then
 * nisshh is thinking alot, then going to college soon!
<humphreybc> godbyk: how are the german and galician PDFs coming along?
<godbyk> Galician compiled without any problems.
<humphreybc> nice
<godbyk> (We also have to make sure the screenshots are all set.)
<humphreybc> stick it somewhere so we can see
<godbyk> The German one hates me and I'm trying to figure out why.
 * happyaron sorry, a question, how to submit screenshots
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-gl.pdf
 * happyaron didn't see any instruction
<godbyk> When you have no screenshots, the manual is only 773 Kb. :)
<godbyk> happyaron: We're using a program called Quickshot to take the screenshots.
<humphreybc> happyaron: http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<humphreybc> godbyk: howcome there are no screenshots in Galician? yet to add them in?
<godbyk> humphreybc: right. because they're not in the lucid-e1 branch yet.
<happyaron> humphreybc: and it will upload automatically?
<godbyk> happyaron: Yes, Quickshot will upload the screenshots automatically.
<humphreybc> happyaron: yup. We wrote it to make it awesome.
<happyaron> good
<happyaron> yes
<humphreybc> godbyk: wow, the title page looks shit
<humphreybc> just the text
<humphreybc> "Comezar con Ubuntu 10.04"
<godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, 'cause I'm on karmic.
<godbyk> humphreybc: and inkscape on karmic sucks.
<humphreybc> ah, okay
<godbyk> humphreybc: it looks a lot nicer when I compile under lucid.
<humphreybc> that is so awesome how it's in Galician.
 * humphreybc is beaming
<humphreybc> get the screenshots in there and compile it under lucid so it looks even better!
<godbyk> I have to wait for one of the quickshot guys to do the screenshot stuff.
<godbyk> I'm going to see if I can get the German one to work.
<humphreybc> nice
<godbyk> It's complaining about \acronym{OS~X}.  The tilde is getting mangled somehow.
<humphreybc> Nice, my tweet calling for more followers to reach our 500 followers target on twitter has been re-tweeted 14 times in an hour
<humphreybc> we've got 480 followers now
<godbyk> Weird.. the listings package is causing the problem.
<godbyk> We're not using it right now, so it's not a real problem..
<godbyk> but I'm going to spend some time investigating it at some point to see what's up.
<humphreybc> http://www.facebook.com/events/edit/index.php?eid=116659145028256&step=1#!/event.php?eid=116659145028256
<humphreybc> I presume when the real website replaces the countdown timer, the nav bar will gain the "Downloads" entry?
<humphreybc> Or are we not going to use "Downloads" yet since we only have one version
<godbyk> okay, the countdown is not magical.
<godbyk> it has no function other than counting down.
<humphreybc> huh?
<humphreybc> lol yes
<godbyk> nothing will happen automatically.
<humphreybc> i know
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> just making sure. :)
<humphreybc> but when it reaches zero we need to have some l33t timing
<godbyk> Well, it'll hit 0 for you before it hits 0 for me.
<godbyk> So the countdown is kinda silly.
<humphreybc> this is true
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> oh well
<humphreybc> when it hits zero for me, we should switch it.. coz i'm +12 so i'll be one of the first people for it to hit zero
<humphreybc> if that makes sense
<godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson_. How's it going?
 * IlyaHaykinson_ waves to godbyk 
<IlyaHaykinson_> good
<IlyaHaykinson_> busy :|
<IlyaHaykinson_> meeting with my HCI friend on Thu
<IlyaHaykinson_> re the research project
<IlyaHaykinson_> how's the lulu thing?
<godbyk> cool
<godbyk> I think I've got Lulu ready to go.
<godbyk> Everything's uploaded.
<godbyk> humphreybc even ordered a couple copies for himself already.
<IlyaHaykinson_> way cool
<IlyaHaykinson_> send me a link, so will I
<godbyk> I'm just waiting a day before I make the catalog entry public.
<IlyaHaykinson_> heh. at one point, lulu had sued my company.
<godbyk> Oh yeah? Over what?
<IlyaHaykinson_> naming
<IlyaHaykinson_> i work at Hulu
<IlyaHaykinson_> ;)
<godbyk> Ha!
<IlyaHaykinson_> but, well, we settled that amicably
<godbyk> That's good to hear.
<godbyk> I'm currently going through the German translation and fixing all the little LaTeX-related typos (so it compiles cleanly).
<godbyk> It's mindless, and a bit boring.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Have you put any thought into what we should try to get done for the second edition?
<IlyaHaykinson_> is there any way, on the landing page at lulu, to make the title page screenshot have a black border?
<IlyaHaykinson_> right now it blends into the page
<IlyaHaykinson_> re lucid-e2, not too much thought beyond the email that i had sent before. but, to some degree, i think some of the research work should help with that.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i think we certainly have bugs in the manual -- those are easy enough to fix.
<godbyk> I don't think so. It generates that from the wrap-around cover that we upload.
<IlyaHaykinson_> we also have serious holes in content (things we gloss over, things we omit when we shouldn't by any means)
<godbyk> Yeah, I agree with that.
<IlyaHaykinson_> so i figure mainly it's about "getting to 100%" with what we have
<godbyk> That's pretty much what I had in mind, too.
<ubuntujenkins> moring all
 * IlyaHaykinson_ waves to ubuntujenkins 
<IlyaHaykinson_> though i think you meant "morning", not "moring"
<godbyk> I'd also like to flesh out the index and glossary.
<IlyaHaykinson_> unless that's a cross between morning and boring
<IlyaHaykinson_> ?
<ubuntujenkins> lol i meant morning
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: yes. i think those are components of "100%" for sure
<IlyaHaykinson_> ooh.
<IlyaHaykinson_> hm, i just realized one thing missing from the manual (unless i misremember)
<IlyaHaykinson_> is a URL to download a copy
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Check the copyright page.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i.e. is http://www.ubuntu-manual.org anywhere in the manual?
<IlyaHaykinson_> oh.
<godbyk> I just added some text to the copyright pages earlier today.
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-screen.pdf
<godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-print.pdf
<godbyk> (I removed the spurious comma after 'and'.)
<godbyk> There's also a half-title page for the book version and a colophon for both (which lists the typefaces and software we used).
<IlyaHaykinson_> way to go!
<godbyk> Here's the print version of the PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/manuals/getting-started-with-ubuntu/10.04/en_US/print/Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04.pdf
<godbyk> (with the spaces, you'll have to make it a url yourself. :-))
<IlyaHaykinson_> hm, interesting. the "Getting Started with OpenOffice.org 3.x" is 442 pages long
<godbyk> Yeah, there's also a $60 Ubuntu Desktop Course book.
<IlyaHaykinson_> the OO.o book is CC-licensed though
<IlyaHaykinson_> and thus we can reuse content from it
<IlyaHaykinson_> if we wanted to.
<godbyk> Cool.
<godbyk> So's the one I pointed out.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: which screenshots do you want as a prority?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Hmm.. we should probably just take them in the same order as the translations progress.
<godbyk> So German and Galician are the top two right now, I think.
<IlyaHaykinson_> oh. are there any ways to clarify the license on lulu?
<godbyk> The Galician manual compiles okay (sans screenshots).  The German one has a slew of bugs I'm trying to fix.
<IlyaHaykinson_> right now it says "standard copyright license" at the bottom
<ubuntujenkins> have you uploaded to google?
<ubuntujenkins> *hulu
<IlyaHaykinson_> lulu
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Yeah, that's in error.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: I manually specified the license as CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported (because they only had old 2.0 CC licenses).
<ubuntujenkins> cononical have chnaged the home page AGAIN
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: And I think since it was a 'custom' license, it uses that standard copyright entry or something silly
<godbyk> I may have to email them about it.
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: i see.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please remove 04-bluetooth-left-click@es@1272023452.png from the server
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> and this one please godbyk 08-display-properties-confirm@es@1270464688.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> all of the screenshots so far can be found https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots
<ubuntujenkins> everything s uptodate with all people have taken
<godbyk> cool
<ubuntujenkins> I know the glacien ones are being finished today
<godbyk> Awesome.
<godbyk> I think there's only a couple Galician and a couple German ones left.
<ubuntujenkins> both the harder ones
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have you uploaded to lulu?
<godbyk> Yep.
<ubuntujenkins> dam new start page is http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/03-ubuntu-start-firefox@gl@1272368086.png
<ubuntujenkins> I will fix it in all the screenshots this afternoon. I have lectures most of the morning
<godbyk> There's a different start page now, too?
<godbyk> Yay.
<godbyk> They should, I dunno, STOP TOUCHING THINGS!
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> I shouted about it 10 minutes ago and i agree STOP TOUCHING THINGS
<godbyk> Don't they know we're trying to work here?
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil.  lulu didn't complain about your cover at all, so I'm assuming it's all good. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: hi, cool
<thorwil> oh wow, "progress" on the logo front: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=diff&rev1=50&rev2=51
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> nice
<godbyk> They're a day late and a dollar short for this release, though. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: if i though they would really think about it, i would have to be insulated by the insistence to not hand out that one asset to me before the guidelines are done. like i rape it somehow
<thorwil> like i would, even
<godbyk> Yeah, I doubt they're giving our project any thought at the moment.
 * popey waves
<ubuntujenkins> hello popey
<IlyaHaykinson_> alright, l8r folks
<ubuntujenkins> bye IlyaHaykinson_
 * ubuntujenkins texlive still downloading 6gb and 32 hours so far
<ubuntujenkins> I am suprised my laptop has stayed usable for this long
 * ubuntujenkins runs to lectures
<humphreybc> okay, what's happening team?
<godbyk> nothing much
<humphreybc> godbyk, screenshots in the Galician manual?
<godbyk> I haven't done anything with screenshots yet.
<humphreybc> what have you done? :P
<godbyk> I don't want to give anyone the impression that it's done, either. :)
<humphreybc> 511 followers on twitter now
<godbyk> Well, I spent a good deal of time fixing all but two of the bugs in the German translation.
<godbyk> I have to do a bit of research to solve the last couple.
<godbyk> What've you been up to? :)
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> went and got fish and chips, ate those with flatmates, had some beers, played some XBOX and started watching Pulp Fiction
<godbyk> sounds like you're not getting much work done. :-P
<humphreybc> to be totally honest, there doesn't appear to be much work to do
<humphreybc> well, i suppose I could start adding stuff to e2 but... meh. later
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> you could start making a list of things we need to add to e2.
<humphreybc> I could, yes
<godbyk> also someone needs to go through the bug spreadsheet and bring it up to date so we know what's left to fix in e2.
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> bah!
<godbyk> There's always plenty of work to do. :-)
<humphreybc> i know i know
<nisshh> humphreybc: what? your running out of work to do on the manual?? Is that possible??
<humphreybc> nisshh: just for this release
<humphreybc> everything is in the hands of godbyk and daker now, i'm afraid
<nisshh> yea
<godbyk> I think all my work is done.
<godbyk> Lulu is ready. I just have to make it public.
<humphreybc> fun
<humphreybc> so where's daker?
<godbyk> The PDFs have been uploaded to the website.  Daker just needs to get the download stuff going.
<nisshh> meh, pity im broke otherwise id order a cpy too
<nisshh> cop*
<godbyk> I'll try to help Daker if he needs it, but I haven't seen him and I don't know what he's up to.
<nisshh> copy*
 * popey pokes humphreybc 
<popey> Dude! Where's my podcast?
<humphreybc> hi popey
<humphreybc> No idea!
<popey> :(
<humphreybc> Joey had a girl around last night
<popey> O RLY?
<humphreybc> hence couldn't edit it or something
<popey> your mum?
<popey> ho ho ho
<humphreybc> yeah, i made sure everyone knew
<popey> me so funny
<humphreybc> HA! what a young joke :P
<popey> lol
<humphreybc> so i dunno, he's got a doctors appointment this morning and then he'll be back soon i guess
<popey> in other news, ordered a T-shirt yet? :)
<humphreybc> nope, i have not! Kinda hoping Jono would just bring like, 500, and give them out to everyone for free
<humphreybc> ..
<popey> haha
<popey> no, that wont happen
<humphreybc> bollocks
<popey> you do get special UDS t-shirts though
<popey> which aren't in the store
<humphreybc> will i be able to score free merchandise from UDS though?
<popey> one t-shirt, yes :)
<humphreybc> pens, stamps, coffee mugs, lucid CDs?
<popey> and as many CDs as you can carry
<popey> no
<humphreybc> darn
<popey> stickers too usually
<humphreybc> CDs are okay
<humphreybc> stickers too
<humphreybc> I decided to ship the books to doctormo in Boston, it's cheaper and I think they'll make it. Thanks for your offer of looking after em for me :)
<popey> last time for UDS Lucid Lynx they also brought a load of Lynx body sprays :)
<popey> yeah, smart move
<humphreybc> Meerkat body sprays?
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> maybe shaving cream
<popey> well, it made sense given it was Lucid Lynx
<popey> and welcome given geeks smell :)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> I hope Martin doesn't snore
<popey> they time the t-shirts for wednesday/thursday when people start to smell most
<humphreybc> Oh did Amber speak to you?
<humphreybc> Hehe, well, Brussels is a lot colder than Dallas, right?
<humphreybc> :P
<popey> heh
<humphreybc> btw, what sort of clothes should I pack?
<popey> well, you're inside all the time
<popey> dallas wasnt that warm
<popey> http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/37?&search=brussels&itemsPerPage=10&region=world
<humphreybc> I see you're coming in on Sunday evening, I'll already be there waiting for ya in the reception! haha
<popey> :D
<humphreybc> I wanted to get one of them blame popey T shirts
<Daviey> Dallas has too much wind!
<humphreybc> but it costs an arm and a leg to ship anything to NZ
<humphreybc> Brussels temp looks similar to what it's like down here
<humphreybc> popey: my friend (beer connoisseur) has instructed me that I have to taste this particular beer
<humphreybc> "Man, you have to try Westvleteren, the 6th and smallest of the Trappist breweries. Incredibly rare beer, 3 styles. http://www.sintsixtus.be/eng/brouwerij.htm Bring me one back if you can!!!"
<humphreybc> http://www.sintsixtus.be/eng/brouwerij.htm
<humphreybc> "The Westvleteren "Trappist" is sold exclusively at the abbey store, and only after having made a reservation by telephoneÂ "
<humphreybc> a reservation!?
<popey> there's way too much beer in brussels to tie yourself to one
<popey> so many options, and many are great
<humphreybc> I figured that
<humphreybc> we'll have to do some pub crawls then
<popey> http://www.tiac.net/~tjd/bier/belglist.html
<humphreybc> nice!
<popey> there's a few 12% in there
 * humphreybc 's pub crawl might end early if he has too many of them
<popey> people tend not to crawl in .be
<popey> given every bar has every beer :)
<humphreybc> :O
<popey> people tend to find a good spot in one bar and stay there
<popey> IME
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> should be good
<humphreybc> although it's a long stumble back to the hotel
<popey> trams
<humphreybc> the pics of the hotel almost look as if it's out in the country?
<popey> plus there is often a coach laid on
<humphreybc> and do trams run all night?
<popey> dunno
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> i guess we'll find out
<popey> you're excited then? :)
<popey> you doing interviews for omg?
<humphreybc> yeah, it should be awesome. Won't really hit home till I'm on the plane, I spose. Been a while since I've been overseas.
<humphreybc> Not presently, but we might do in the future
<humphreybc> we'd like to :)
<popey> i meant at UDS
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> probably not audio ones coz I don't have the gear with me
<humphreybc> if I can scavenge some gear, sure. But I'll definitely be covering it
<humphreybc> we're probably going to do a couple of podcasts and a lot of blog posts, i'll be snapping pics too
<humphreybc> Would have been much better if Joey came
<popey> yeah, shame he cant
<humphreybc> he's definitely going to come to UDS-N though
<humphreybc> did Amber ping you?
<popey> ya
<popey> should arrange a skype call soon
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: when you get bored can you do some quickshot mock ups please . I am trying to do the design in glade and it looks bad
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: don't ever miss with glade unless you know exactly what is supposed to go where already
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: I thought i did but it all looks so bad. works on the power point i did but not in glade.
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: how does it fail in glade?
<ubuntujenkins> it looks no where near as good as i thought it would
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> okay Luke, i'll do it next week if I have time
 * humphreybc just had a rather alternative/indie style jam session with flatmates
<ubuntujenkins> thanks humphreybc also is the wwubi screenshot still  in the manual?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> psst, everyone, popey's gone... let's have a party!
<ubuntujenkins> galician screenshots complete
<zleap> hi
<ubuntujenkins> hello zleap
<ubuntujenkins> hello sebsebseb
<zleap> just joined
<zleap> would the following be useful for the manual
<zleap> http://www.zleap.net/portfolio.php
<zleap> joe text editor command reference
<ubuntujenkins> possibly to advanced for the manual at the moment. I can't remember if we mention gedit even. What would you like to help with?
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I just refered zleap from #ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> thnaks sebsebseb I better join the channel and an ubunt manaul as highlighting
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: what  was that?
<zleap> not sure, when its out I will see if i can put something in,
<zleap> or contribute ideas / screen shots etc
<sebsebseb> really there should be a factoid in ubottu for the manual, and also that makes it clear that it's from Canonical I guess :)
<sebsebseb> well jussi for example could sort that out
<ubuntujenkins> when i ping you your irc client flashes. when someone mentions quickshot my irc client flashes
<ubuntujenkins> zleap: let me find you a link
<jussi> grumble
<zleap> k
<sebsebseb> jussi: uh I typed that wrong
<sebsebseb> jussi: makes it clear, that it's not from Canonical
<zleap> i have a copy here its beta,
<jussi> sebsebseb: you know the drill, suggest the factoid aas norma and we will evaluate it..
<zleap> ]what does "factoid ass norma" mean?
<sebsebseb> jussi: I don't bother with factoid  suggestion stuff in pm with ubottu  or however it's offically meant to be done.  I may suggest to an op about this and that factoid at the time.  Anyway I guess the manual factoid someone that ideally has contributed quite a bit to this project should come up with, so that's not me.
<sebsebseb> jussi: why got rid of the 01 by the way in your IRC nick?
<jussi> sebsebseb: thats the way we do factoids...
<jussi> sebsebseb: My name is jussi...
<jussi> ;)
<sebsebseb> jussi: yes, but you had 01 in your nick as well
<sebsebseb> before
<jussi> sebsebseb: this nick finally became available. but its offtopic for here. moving on.
<sebsebseb> !ot
<manualbot> Best to keep this channel mainly on topic!
<sebsebseb> jussi: yeah yeah, and I come up with that factoid  suggestion for this channel :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello sebsebseb
<ubuntujenkins> hello semioticrobotic
<ubuntujenkins> sorry sebsebseb wrong person
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: np
<sebsebseb> ok np
<semioticrobotic> hi ubuntujenkins
<semioticrobotic> how are things?
<semioticrobotic> wooo!  one more day!
<ubuntujenkins> I am good semioticrobotic you?
<semioticrobotic> not bad at all
<semioticrobotic> looking forward to tomorrow's release
<ubuntujenkins> its going to be exciting :)
<semioticrobotic> I won't be able to perform an upgrade for several days (too much going on at school), but I am excited
<ubuntujenkins> upgrades are always painful if stuff breaks. i like clean installs. A seperate home always help
<semioticrobotic> yeah.  I never do anything but a clean install
<semioticrobotic> saves more time, in the long run, than upgrading and trying to tweak
<semioticrobotic> this is the first time I've had to migrate keypairs, however, so I'm trying to discern th best way to do that
<semioticrobotic> looks like the command line is the easiest way
<semioticrobotic> given what I've read and what others have graciously told me
<ubuntujenkins> you will have to tell me how you do on that keys have been a pain for me
<semioticrobotic> not looking forward to it
<semioticrobotic> but I'll be sure to report my success (or failure) after the install
<semioticrobotic> hate to run, but a few of my students are shooting a video on he impending zombie apocalypse, and they've asked me to play a small role ... time for filming
<semioticrobotic> heh
<semioticrobotic> should be fun
<semioticrobotic> hope you have a great day, ubuntujenkins.
<ubuntujenkins> and you semioticrobotic have fun filming/acting
 * ubuntujenkins omg texlive svn branch has finished, it only took 36 hours to download 7.0 GB
<ubuntujenkins> anyone good with perl?
<humphreybc> ha!
<humphreybc> no
<humphreybc> :P
<ChrisWoollard> what do you need
<ubuntujenkins> don't ha I am trying to build texlive packages
<ChrisWoollard> i have been know to do a little
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: I wil just paste bin some stuff
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: really, what for?
<ubuntujenkins> us!
<humphreybc> for....?
<ubuntujenkins> so people can use appa and not the texlive way
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: running this script http://paste.ubuntu.com/423980/ i get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/423981/ this is the change log http://paste.ubuntu.com/423979/
<ubuntujenkins> ignore the first two lines even with out those there it fails the same.
<ubuntujenkins> of the change log
<ubuntujenkins> the strange thing is if i empty the changelog then the script works
<ChrisWoollard> hmmm
<ubuntujenkins> sorry proably a bit complex for irc
<ChrisWoollard> I think that makes sense
<ubuntujenkins> what is it testing for in the change log file?
<ChrisWoollard> if the file is empty I don't think it would parse the foreach on line 164
<ubuntujenkins> If i have an empty change log does that mean some of the script doesn't run?
<ubuntujenkins> ie do i lose anything important
<ChrisWoollard> i think that if the log file is empty lines 164 through to 178 wouldn't run
<ChrisWoollard> I am thinking that there is probably a problem with the regex on 169
<ChrisWoollard> which is probably why it is erroring
<ChrisWoollard> I do have to say that regex's are a bugger at times
<ubuntujenkins> those lines don't appear to do anything at least as far as i can tell.
<ChrisWoollard> not much. looks like a big of error checking
<ubuntujenkins> good good thanks for looking. now i have to work out how to generate a package to test
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity . the orange is another and the geometry of the CoC has been changed. i don't intend to adjust our titlepage, as i prefer to keep internal consistency. after all, they didn't manage to keep the stuff already in lucid in snyc themselves, from what i have been told.
<thorwil> gone for garden work and cycling, bbl
<ChrisWoollard> It looks like it is pretty much just checking for the correct dists and that is the only real useful bit.
<ChrisWoollard> but that wouldn't stop it working
<ChrisWoollard> if it isn't there
<ChrisWoollard> you would just have t be careful what it is run against
<ubuntujenkins> I will probably try and get that stuff correct if these packages achive what we want. untill then i think a balnk change log is ok. thanks for you help
<ChrisWoollard> np
<nisshh> does anyone here use identi.ca?
<dutchie> hi all
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello all
<hemanth> hi ubuntujenkins :)
<ubuntujenkins> just the person I have a question let me find the link
<hemanth> hmm?
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: if you look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/revision/238 and view the diff of the bottom file. Did you change that? or was it done automatically by quickly? I don't mind either way i was just interested.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, checking it out, page still loading
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, its done by quickly, cos as you knew i was just working on the file in the bin dir
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth:thats what i thought, quickly broke it. the change was wrong what version are you using?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, now Quickly 0.4.2
<hemanth> , then it was Quickly 0.4.1
<ubuntujenkins> strange, don't worry we will just have to keep an eye on what gets changed.
<hemanth> okies, what is the next thinge that is planned b4 we hit the next millstone?
<ubuntujenkins> we need to get the gui design going i have made a start but. Its not going well so i have asked ben to do some mock ups. It doesn't look right in comparison with the power point i did
<ubuntujenkins> feel free to set up your own branch and have ago. Thats what i have done
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sure, sorry for the delay the notification is not working
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: no problem
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk-android> Hey, ubuntujenkins, I'll be with you in just a bit. Going to hop in the shower.
<ubuntujenkins> cool godbyk-android no rush
<dutchie> oh my god
<dutchie> oauth does not look like fun :
<dutchie> (
<ubuntujenkins> why are you looking at it?
<dutchie> for the bug form
<ubuntujenkins> ooo yea good luck bet its not as hard as packaging texlive
<dutchie> heh
 * ubuntujenkins finishes correcting all the firefox homepages again. Thanks to cononical for that job
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. I'm back now. Sorry for the delay. Got distracted.
<godbyk> Is it worth me taking the time to recompile the PDFs (for print and screen) with the new homepage?
<godbyk> We've got, what, less than two hours until release? :)
<ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk, I have just updated please do if we have time
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> I guess it's nearly four hours to go.
<ubuntujenkins> also can you make lucid-e1 work again i can't compile it. All of the translated screenshots are also ok
<dutchie> hmm, maybe i need openid instead of oauth
<dutchie> THIS IS TOO CONFUSING :(
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/424201/ is the error
<ubuntujenkins> also I have some info on the texlive packages
<ubuntujenkins> when you finish the mountain of stuff i have just suggested :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Ah, I think I added thorwil's new title pages to just my branch and not the main branch. I'll look into it.
<godbyk> Heh.
<godbyk> Feel free to info-dump, if you like.
<godbyk> I'll be with you in about 5-10 minutes after I finish recompiling the PDFs.
<godbyk> I noticed that Canonical came out with the new branding guidelines today, too.
<godbyk> Too bad we needed them yesterday (literally).
<dutchie> no, it's definitely oauth
<ubuntujenkins> this is the most important one http://paste.ubuntu.com/424182/ and this i think tells us what is in the packages http://paste.ubuntu.com/424174/ or at least i think ( godbyk )
 * ubuntujenkins canonical can't make their mind up at all
<c7p> hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello c7p how are you?
<c7p> nice :D the translation of the manual is completed, 10.04 is released tomorrow .... it couldn't be greater :p, you ?
<ubuntujenkins> I am good, I am enjoying the end of the day
<dutchie> godbyk: have you done one last translation import?
<godbyk> dutchie: who? what?  just a moment.  re-uploading PDFs to get ubuntujenkins's updated screenshot in
<godbyk> Has anyone seen daker, btw?
<godbyk> Or am I going to have to panic and relearn php in 5 minutes?
<ubuntujenkins> not seen him sorry
<c7p> string 206
<c7p> From left to right, these buttons \emph{close}, \emph{minimize}, and \emph{maximize} the window.
<ubuntujenkins> yep what about it?
<c7p> on my windows it is maximize, minimize, close
<ubuntujenkins> what langauge?
<c7p> greek
<dutchie> stupid complicated oauth
<godbyk> c7p: are you using a quickshot cd or a full lucid installation or what?
<c7p> lucid installation, beta 1
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: is greek left to right or right to left
<ubuntujenkins> are beta 1
<c7p> left to right
<ubuntujenkins> go system > apperence choose a different theme then choose the origianal again.
<c7p> yeah
<c7p> the theme made things complicated
<c7p> thx
<ubuntujenkins> sorry how did it make it complicated
<ubuntujenkins> did i mess your computer up?
<c7p> no
<c7p> i used the dust theme
<ubuntujenkins> are ok panic over :)
<c7p> and that caused the "bug"
<c7p> now that i changed to the default theme, the buttons are on the right place
<ubuntujenkins> yey \0/
<godbyk> lulu book updated
<godbyk> uploading PDFs to our site now
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: wow i didn't expect lulu as well
<godbyk> I just had to upload the new PDF to their site and run through their wizard again.
<godbyk> Unfortunately, each time I do that, it changes the URL (as it's a new 'revision' of the book).
<godbyk> So then I have to add that new URL to the copyright page of the on-screen version.
<godbyk> (I should've just left it as 'find the book at lulu.com' instead of giving the full URL)
<ubuntujenkins> is it public I would like to work out the uk cost
<godbyk> it's not listed in the catalog yet, but I can send you the direct link.
<godbyk> one moment.
<dutchie> I didn't expect that to work :(
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: have you looked at ground control for hints
<dutchie> ooh, good idea
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm adding those title pages to the repository.
<godbyk> (It's set to ignore the .pdf files in the titlepages/ dir, so that's why they weren't added previously.)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: they should be in the repo now.
<godbyk> let me know if you have any other problems compiling.
<godbyk> I guess I'll grab the latest code for the website and see if I can make sense of it.
<ubuntujenkins> thnaks godbyk compiles fine.
<godbyk> great
<ubuntujenkins> I am now going to try with the latest ubuntu packages. once i have removed texlive
<ubuntujenkins> I still can't build them my self yet. but i thought i would work out what is missing before i mail the mailing list
<godbyk> sounds like a plan
<ubuntujenkins> its no good if its a licence issue. The read me on making them is really good but some stuff is outdated. ie it talks about scripts that don't exists
<ubuntujenkins> i have another question godbyk, what lanaguge is this in http://paste.ubuntu.com/424223/
<dutchie> it's a Makefile
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: It's a Makefile.
<godbyk> So you'd run 'make target', where 'target' is one of those words that starts at the beginning of the line and ends in a colon.
<godbyk> (if you use bash, just type 'make <Tab>' and it'll autocomplete to show you the possibilities)
<ubuntujenkins> doh! ok this may make sense
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: just found daker on facebook
<godbyk> cool.  is he going to come into the irc channel?
<ubuntujenkins> he should be on in the sec
<godbyk> k
<c7p> godbyk, the /ie and /eg abbreviations, should be translated ? (for example,  /eg --(translation)-> word)
<godbyk> c7p: There are two options for \ie and \eg.
<godbyk> 1. You can email me the proper translations, and I'll make \ie and \eg spit out that translation (in which case you can leave the \ie and \eg commands as is).
<daker> hi
<godbyk> 2. You can remove the \ie and \eg commands and replace them with their translations.
<godbyk> Hey, daker!
<daker> what's up ?
<c7p> hm let me see the .po file
<godbyk> daker: I wanted to see where we were at with the website and see if you needed any help with anything.
<godbyk> daker: We're going to switch off the countdown timer and use the real site in just under 3 hours (at 0000 UTC).
<godbyk> So I wanted to make sure everything was ready to go.
<daker> what !!!!!
<daker> 3hours
<godbyk> Yep.
<godbyk> It'll be 29 April (UTC) then.
<daker> i thought that still 13hours :)
<godbyk> Ah, I'm afraid not. :)
<godbyk> I've set up the database tables that you sent me.  And the PDFs are uploaded.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> daker: If there's anything I can do to help, tell me.
<godbyk> I think I've got everything on my end finished, so I'm free to help.
<daker> oki thanks
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: did you look at the links on the texlive files i sent?
<ubuntujenkins> (pastebins)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what? where?
<ubuntujenkins> this is the most important one http://paste.ubuntu.com/424182/ and this i think tells us what is in the packages http://paste.ubuntu.com/424174/ or at least i think ( godbyk )
<ubuntujenkins> the first one is about what isn't in the packages
<c7p> godbyk: i sent you an email with the translation of the abbreviations, check it when you have time.
<godbyk> c7p: sure.  As soon as I get it, I'll set the translations in the branch for you.  You can then use \ie and \eg as-is.
<c7p> godbyk, ok thank you
<daker> godbyk, change the autoupdate to 5min
<godbyk> daker: ok
<godbyk> daker: I set it to 5 minutes.
<daker> godbyk, if you change the informations in a file it will be erased when i push ?
<godbyk> daker: I'm not sure I'm following. Can you rephrase the question?
 * ubuntujenkins oo the channel is getting more people
<daker> just a minute, because i am reinstalling lucid from zero
<daker> nrn
<daker> brb
<daker> godbyk, what about lulu.co link ?
<godbyk> daker: I've got that.
<godbyk> Just a sec and I'll send it to you
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: So for the first link you gave me, I think all of that's okay.
<ubuntujenkins> so none of the missing stuff is needed?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The original problem we had was that the version of polyglossia we needed didn't work with the packaged version of XeTeX (as it wasn't new enough).
<godbyk> nope.
<godbyk> most of it's not really missing, just packaged different.
<godbyk> differently.
<godbyk> and the stuff that is missing, we're not using.
<ubuntujenkins> thats a good sign
<godbyk> Check to see that the polyglossia package is in the Ubuntu packages.. I think that may not have been in the 2007 version. I don't know if it was in 2009 now or not.
<godbyk> (It's been a few months.)
<ubuntujenkins> I will when it finishes installing
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: running with the latest packages i get ! LaTeX Error: File `ccicons.sty' not found. . I can't work out what version of polyglossia is in use its not in its own packages
<godbyk> aha
<godbyk> yeah, they didn't have ccicons packaged either.
<godbyk> so that's a package that's missing.
<godbyk> it's pretty new.
<ubuntujenkins> ok how can i install just that using the script?
<godbyk> if you look in the .log file, and search for polyglossia, it should tell you the version, fwiw.
<godbyk> I don't think the script installs ccicons anymore.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: but if you go to ctan.org/pkg/ccicons
<godbyk> you can download a zip file
<godbyk> hmm.. actually, that may be slightly painful.
<godbyk> the old install-pkgs.sh script installed it for you. if you look at the bzr history, you can find a copy. :)
<ubuntujenkins> are ok. will do also wheres the .log file i need to look in?
<godbyk> wherever you tried to compile from.
<ubuntujenkins> I used synaptic
<godbyk> what is it that said ccicons.sty not found?
<ubuntujenkins> no make said that. I am looking for the log to find the the polyglossia version
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> so in the directiory from which you ran make should be a .log file.
<godbyk> main.log if you ran make with no arguments.
<godbyk> that's basically the full log of all the output xelatex gives you when it runs.
<ubuntujenkins> are right got it
<c7p> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night c7p
<ubuntujenkins> am i going mad godbyk ?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ah, I see.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: polyglossia is loaded after ccicons.
<godbyk> so since it's dying on ccicons, it's not getting to polyglossia.
<godbyk> if you hit Enter to continue past the ccicons error, it should continue to compile, though.
<godbyk> or you can comment out the \RequirePackage{ccicons} line in ubuntu-manual.cls temporarily.
<ubuntujenkins> ok well i can't install ccions using the script so i have scipt it
<ubuntujenkins> the next error is http://paste.ubuntu.com/424256/
<ubuntujenkins> the install-script.log is http://paste.ubuntu.com/424257/
<godbyk> right, that error is because you commented out the ccicons line -- it doesn't know what the \ccbysa command means.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: does 'which xindy' return anything?
<godbyk> if not, then xindy may not be in the packages either.
<godbyk> it's used to generate the glossary and index.
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: I see you asked in #launchpad have you tried #launchpad-dev
<dutchie> thumper said it was the Right Channel
<godbyk> also see if 'makeglossaries' returns anything.  if not, it means the glossaries stuff isn't in the packages.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we try and work out why i can't install ccicons
<dutchie> I think #launchpad-dev is for developing LP itself
<godbyk> sure.
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: true just a thought. tried doctormo himself he is around in #ubuntu-app-devel
<thumper> ?
<thumper> whazzup?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: edit the install-pkgs.sh file.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: search for 'Main loop'
<godbyk> immediately after that comment, add:
<godbyk> install_ccicons
<godbyk> exit 0
<ubuntujenkins> I think dutchie was mentioning you in passing thumper he is trying to sort out oauth/openid
<thumper> dutchie: #launchpad-dev is for launchpad developers
<godbyk> and then you can run the ./install-pkgs.sh script to install the ccicons package
<ubuntujenkins> ok godbyk I will give it ago
<thumper> dutchie: whether they be canonical people or other
<dutchie> so should I ask my question in there?
<thumper> dutchie: what type of questions?
 * ubuntujenkins runs make
<dutchie> 22:14:49 < dutchie> what I want to do is write a custom bug form for the ubuntu manual project. the bit I'm having trouble  with is authenticating into LP to actually report the bug. I think the main problem is my complete lack of  understanding of oauth/openid
<thumper> dutchie: if it has to do with open id then the guy to ping is salgado
<thumper> what do you mean by custom bug form?
<dutchie> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/custom-bug-form
<thumper> dutchie: if it is from your website, then you just need to have saved credentials for the user that the server is using
<thumper> dutchie: you probably want the bugs to be registered by someone one the manual team on behalf of the form submitter
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: it runs to the end and i get a 158 page manual but i get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/424260/
<thumper> dutchie: so the form submitter doesn't need to have a login
<thumper> dutchie: does that sound reasonable to you?
<dutchie> thumper: it does
<thumper> dutchie: ok, launchpadlib allows the saving of credentials
<ubuntujenkins> but they don't get karma
<thumper> dutchie: you have your script that files the bug to load those credentials
<thumper> dutchie: then submit the bug
<dutchie> thumper: I was originally going for having the user sign in with their own LP credentials
<thumper> ubuntujenkins: who doesn't?
<ubuntujenkins> the original submitter
<thumper> dutchie: harder
<dutchie> yeah
<thumper> ubuntujenkins: you are right
<ubuntujenkins> It would be nice if they could.
<thumper> dutchie: the oauth redirect and token acceptance is what would be required
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, it needs xindy to generate the glossary and index.
<godbyk> and before, the install-pkgs.sh script said it couldn't find xindy.
<dutchie> thumper: so where would I redirect to?
<thumper> ubuntujenkins: what if your users don't have a lp login?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  right so we are missing xindy and ccicons
<dutchie> I could just have an optional LP-id field
<dutchie> best of both worlds
<ubuntujenkins> thumper: true we should give them a i don't have a launchpad account button
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: so far. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how do i install xindy then?
<thumper> dutchie: except that you either use LP or launchpadlib to file a bug
<thumper> dutchie: and to file a but for someone else you'd need their credentials, or a token which gives you write permission
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: http://ctan.org/pkg/xindy
<thumper> dutchie: personally I think that's bad
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you can grab a tarball here: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/indexing/xindy/
<dutchie> thumper: why?
<thumper> dutchie: karma isn't so important as filing a useful bug
<thumper> dutchie: I'm not going to authorize a token your site can use to write stuff as me
<thumper> dutchie: I'm sure there are many who think like that
<dutchie> fair enough
<thumper> if you want a custom form, I suggest you have one user who the bugs are filed as
<dutchie> surely there isn't much harm in making it optional though?
<thumper> that user saves launchpadlib credentials
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: xindy-kernel-3.0 right. don't want to do it all twice
<thumper> dutchie: I'm not sure how easy it is to implement
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the one I have installed is:
<godbyk> $ xindy --version
<godbyk> xindy release: unknown
<godbyk> xindy script version: 1.13
<godbyk> xindy kernel version: 2.3
<godbyk> xindy run time engine: x86_64-linux-gnu, version 2.2
<godbyk> CLISP version 2.48 (2009-07-28) (built on pcl321.mppmu.mpg.de [134.107.3.54])
<godbyk>     architecture: X86_64
<dutchie> wouldn't be too hard, if I could get the oauth thing working
<godbyk> that's what texlive-2009 shipped with.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk i will use 2.3
<dutchie> we could use the UMPÂ persona for this :)
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: I was thinking more ubuntu-manual-bug but yea we could
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> I'll slepp on it, I think
<dutchie> night
<godbyk> dutchie: not gonna hang around for the launch?
<ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
<daker> good night dutchie
<ChrisWoollard> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night ChrisWoollard
<daker> night ChrisWoollard
<ubuntujenkins> hehe godbyk I like to be difficult it make for xindy fails http://paste.ubuntu.com/424266/ . I don't compile form source much. I am right in thinking that its because i am 64 bit?
<godbyk> It looks like maybe a test failed or something. it's hard to tell from that log.  anything useful in the minitests.out file?
<ubuntujenkins> there is no file of that name
<godbyk> let me try to compile it here. see if I get the same thing.
<ubuntujenkins> the web site says there is 12 hour 10 mins to go
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, I think it's 1. counting toward noon instead of 00:01 UTC, and 2. using your local time zone.
<ubuntujenkins> are makes sense
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: did you just run ./configure and then make?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<godbyk> any special args I need to specify?
<ubuntujenkins> not as far as i know
<godbyk> 'kay. running make now.
<daker> godbyk, ubuntujenkins the countdown is set to 29 april 12:00
<ubuntujenkins> I see daker
<daker> not 29 april 00:00
<ubuntujenkins> and it uses local time as apparently we have 8 mins to go but that should be 1 hour 8
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you'll be pleased to know that I got the same error compiling.
<godbyk> let me poke around and see what it's doing
<ubuntujenkins> not just me for once
<daker> are you sure it merges ?
<ubuntujenkins> current time for me daker http://imagebin.org/94879 note the clock in the top
<daker> ubuntujenkins, you are in GMT ?
<daker> godbyk, are you sure it merges ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker:  nope bst
<godbyk> daker: lemme check
<godbyk> daker: ah, it failed to merge.
<godbyk> lemme fix it real quick.
<godbyk> maybe we should put the db connection stuff into a config-db.php file and include('config-db.php') in config.php?
<godbyk> then we won't have conflicts if you edit config.php
<daker> oki
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-29
<daker> still 1h
<daker> OHO
<godbyk> T minus 1 hour!
<daker> try now
<godbyk> k
<daker> the struff are in includes/condif-db.php
<daker> the struff are in includes/config-db.php
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> humphreybc should be here in 20 minutes or so. He's just waking up.
 * ubuntujenkins gets cake to celebrate with.
<ubuntujenkins> has humphreybc got a speech i wonder?
 * ubuntujenkins hehe
<godbyk> lol
 * daker will become crasy
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> the countdown is fixed
<ubuntujenkins> no its not it says zero for me
<ubuntujenkins> unless its ment to
<godbyk> it's still local time.
<godbyk> so for me it says there's 5+ hours to go ('til midnight local time).
<ubuntujenkins> I ahev loads of lectures tomorrow :/ I will not be much help in the channel uk time
<ubuntujenkins> is anyone going to be around then? dutchie might
<humphreybc> hello chaps
<daker> hello
<godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc have you done a speech. we all want to hear it
<godbyk> 'bout time you showed up. :)
<humphreybc> hey! shush!
<godbyk> You better have brought cake, too!
 * ubuntujenkins has cake
<ubuntujenkins> and pop please humphreybc
<humphreybc> cake?
 * humphreybc brought champagne
 * godbyk wants cake!
<ubuntujenkins> oooooooooooo champers
<humphreybc> now get back to work team, we've still got 30 minutes before we can party!
 * daker wants more time
<godbyk> humphreybc: the book you ordered is obsolete now.  ubuntujenkins had to update the browser home page screenshot today.
<godbyk> just thought I'd let you know. :)
<ubuntujenkins> thats canoicals fault not mine
 * humphreybc cries
<godbyk> oh, and apparently canonical released some branding stuff today (finally).
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: you will have a one off
<godbyk> too bad we needed it yesterday -- literally!
<humphreybc> mine's the special edition
<godbyk> humphreybc: just think of it as a rare edition -- a collector's item. :)
<godbyk> I think Ilya has a one-off, too. :)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> aw
<godbyk> I think he snagged a copy after I removed a spurious comma.
<godbyk> So you each have one-offs.
<humphreybc> lol
 * humphreybc is off to grab a coffee and toast
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'm don't understand the xindy thing. It's basically running a test and deciding that the test failed for some reason (though I don't know why).
<godbyk> It looks to be adding some numbers.. and it does so correctly, but still doesn't like it.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: hmm is there another way to do it?
<godbyk> I don't now.
<godbyk> know.
<godbyk> I just use the precompiled stuff. :)
<ubuntujenkins> found a deb for xindy on launchpad
<godbyk> ah, so it's packaged separated from texlive-*?
<ubuntujenkins> it last successfully built in intrepid not hopefull
<ubuntujenkins> it was in universe at one point
<daker> godbyk, can you pls check the logs table ?
<godbyk> daker: sure
<ubuntujenkins> omg godbyk it made a manual we are missng two things. assuming people install texlive-full. I can make a dummy package that has all the dependcies we need and we just need to package two other things
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> check to make sure the index and glossary look right.
<ubuntujenkins> do you want to double check the log as well
<godbyk> sure, I can.
<humphreybc> T minus 15 minutes
<humphreybc> we need manualbot to do a countdown next time
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/424297/ godbyk  i will e-mail you the pdf to double check
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I did ask dutchie
<godbyk> ok
<humphreybc> godbyk: the final PDF is up on the server? what's it named?
<humphreybc> NOT ubuntu-manual.pdf I hope
<godbyk> No, it's named "Getting Started with 10.04.pdf"
<humphreybc> good man
<godbyk> Er.. insert Ubuntu in there somewhere.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> good
<humphreybc> and the download counter scripts are going?
<godbyk> yep
<humphreybc> good
<godbyk> daker's polishing them now.
<godbyk> but entries are being added to the database.
<humphreybc> heh
<daker> when i finished trunc the tables
<godbyk> daker: will do.
<humphreybc> do we have a way of storing peoples email addresses so we can email them when their language is available>
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: the screenshots are not in the manual i built they are looking for them in en_Us not en. I will symlink them but are all the others ok?
<alket> Is manual ready :D
<godbyk> I'll truncate the tables at the same time as I push the button on lulu and make the site live.
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> alket: Yep.  It'll be live in a few minutes.
<godbyk> humphreybc: yes.
<humphreybc> daker: Could you remove some of the website translations that aren't finished from the list please, like "Sinhalese"
<alket> godbyk :D can;t wait to start translating in my language
<godbyk> alket: You can start now!
<godbyk> alket: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<qwebirc5666> Hello World
<humphreybc> doesn't look like many people knew how to translate "we have a version optimized for printing to save the trees" haha
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> hey guys!
<ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
 * humphreybc told everyone on facebook and twitter to come join us
<qwebirc5666> Some Have translate the manual in Arabic ?
 * ubuntujenkins more people
<godbyk> qwebirc5666: An Arabic translation as been started, yeah.
<humphreybc> qwebirc5666: I think there is a bit of work on the Arabic translation, but not a huge amount
<ubuntujenkins> qwebirc5666: you can help here https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<humphreybc> the website is in Arabic I believe
<alket> godbyk: Can I translate it with Open Office because I don't think Rosseta is suitable
<humphreybc> nope, no it's not
<humphreybc> daker: what happened to the Arabic website translation?
<daker> nothing
<humphreybc> alket: unfortunately I don't think you can, you'll have to use Rosetta
<godbyk> humphreybc: didn't you just tell daker to remove all the non-English translations from the site? :)
<humphreybc> godbyk: no!
<humphreybc> I meant remove the ones that aren't completed
<daker> godbyk, incomplete translations
<humphreybc> for example, Vietnamese is fine
<godbyk> ah.
<humphreybc> coz it's translated
<humphreybc> Sinhalese is still all in english though :P
<humphreybc> 8 minutes!?
<godbyk> brb. need to refill my glass of water and use the bathroom.
<godbyk> then I'll start pushing some buttons. :)
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: yep
<daker> godbyk, hurry up
<daker> because i need you
<humphreybc> our timing has to be perfect :)
<humphreybc> yeah godbyk, hurry up!
<BunixTux> No body can ask me ?
<humphreybc> BunixTux: hmm?
<daker> BunixTux, ubuntu-ma ?
<humphreybc> hey Azelphur!
<Azelphur> hi :)
<humphreybc> !welcome
<manualbot> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Enjoy your stay!
<godbyk> back
<DnaX> Hi at all
<humphreybc> Hey, it's Bryan!
<daker> waw 35
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you mentioned the release in #ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> hello semioticrobotic
<xfact> Hope I didn't miss anything spacial
<humphreybc> nope xfact you're right on time
<ubuntujenkins> nope xfact just in time very soon
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: nope, on facebook and twitter
<xfact> Feww! Great...
<ubuntujenkins> I mentioned it on #ubuntu-uk
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hi all o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello daftykins
<xfact> so it's like 5 minutes left, right?
<humphreybc> 4 minutes, even
<daftykins> congrats on the hard work :>
<semioticrobotic> hi ubuntujenkins!
<h00k> the spam got me :(
 * ubuntujenkins 40 people
<humphreybc> hey h00k!
<semioticrobotic> hey hey everyone!
 * ubuntujenkins o this is exciting
<h00k> hello, hello.
 * xfact excited... 
<humphreybc> everyone, eyes on daker and godbyk :P
<daker> daker getting stress
<humphreybc> they're the ones who are going to push the button to change the website over to show the download links
 * semioticrobotic is focused
<xfact> A whole new project finally going to see the light!
<h00k> what are we lookin' for?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: should we tell #ubuntu-doc
<alket> I think i will translate it with Open Office, Rosseta isn't suitable for book-like
<h00k> ooooh
<BunixTux> Two minutes
<humphreybc> h00k: www.ubuntu-manual.org will flick over very soon
<DasEi> oh, manuals for those who can read.. they really exist .. hehe,  need translation for german ?
<d0od> oh hai when can i getting the manual guide hehe??
<godbyk> Everyone has to promise not to break our new, wholly-untested site.  :)
<semioticrobotic> no promises
<daker> !welcom ubuntu-ma
<manualbot> daker: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> godbyk: aww must i :(
<xfact> hum
<semioticrobotic> but I'll try my best not to
<daker> !welcome ubuntu-ma
<manualbot> daker: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<humphreybc> !welcome
<manualbot> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Enjoy your stay!
<daker> f***
<h00k> humphreybc: and by very soon, you mean 5+ hours?
<crowd> daker: tu es la
<humphreybc> h00k: nope, 1 minute
<humphreybc> at midnight UTC
<h00k> humphreybc: I see 5 hours 1 minute, here!
<godbyk> Nah.. the countdown is set for midnight, local time, not UTC.  So it's a bit wrong for most people. :)
<humphreybc> h00k: ah yea, the countdown timers are localized
<semioticrobotic> yeah, four hours here
<daker> crowd, speak english :)
<h00k> bah! I was fooled!
<humphreybc> for some weird reason
<xfact> Will somebody count 10, 9, 8 >>> etc.
<humphreybc> it's a big trick :P
<alket> Where will it be published firstly in wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual or www.ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> alket: our website
<humphreybc> ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker, ready to push buttons?
<jeffreyf> says 4 hours for me...
<humphreybc> ok
<humphreybc> 20
<humphreybc> 19
<humphreybc> 18
<humphreybc> 17
<humphreybc> wait i'm behind
<BunixTux> 5
 * h00k begins drumroll
<humphreybc> 10
<humphreybc> 9
<humphreybc> 8
<humphreybc> 7
<humphreybc> 6
<humphreybc> 5
<humphreybc> 4
<humphreybc> 3
<humphreybc> now ahead
<humphreybc> 1
<humphreybc> !
<BunixTux> 0
<humphreybc> yay!
<semioticrobotic> !!!!!!!
<h00k> it's still counting down :(
<DnaX> Yeah!
 * xfact !!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<BunixTux> congragulation
<ubuntujenkins> 1
<webmasteryoda> -1
<alket> RC ?
 * semioticrobotic cheers
<ubuntujenkins> 2
<webmasteryoda> -2
<humphreybc> OMG BATMANZ!
<alket> congrats
<webmasteryoda> -3
<webmasteryoda> -4
<webmasteryoda> -5
<webmasteryoda> :D
<h00k> it's counting down yet :(
<xfact> Now if there anyone behind count by adding -
<DasEi> hey, interesting , does the site resolve ip's for their country ?
<humphreybc> so
<jeffreyf> I have 3 hr 59 mins
<xfact> webmasteryoda, ;)
<humphreybc> hopefully the site will change in a second
<semioticrobotic> 404 error!
<themusicalduck> mine has just said 0, 0, 0 for a while
<ubuntujenkins> the website gone down
<humphreybc> if godbyk and daker have hit the right buttons
<h00k> BAH THERE IT IS
<ubuntujenkins> its up
<humphreybc> YAY!
<humphreybc> it's up!
<webmasteryoda> -3
<ubuntujenkins> yey
<webmasteryoda> -2
<alket> its old site now
<semioticrobotic> and there we go!!!!!!!!
<webmasteryoda> -1
<webmasteryoda> 0
<webmasteryoda> go!
<humphreybc> download that mother!
<jeffreyf> there it is
<xfact> Yea, it's up
<DnaX> awesome home page!
<xfact> Now only Lucid is left
<semioticrobotic> sucking bandwidth
<ubuntujenkins> is lucid still not out?
<xangua> partyÂ¿ :D
<semioticrobotic> page looks great, everyone
<h00k> it's true, it isn't
<humphreybc> party!
<xangua> ubuntujenkins: no
<xfact> Yup, the page is smart looking
<ubuntujenkins> xfact: wow
<DasEi> semioticrobotic: http://www.ubuntu-manual.org is up for me, displays in my native (german) language
<Alcor> give the page
<Alcor> please
<daftykins> cor it's only 4.6MB
<DasEi> http://www.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> * xangua
<DasEi> Alcor: ^
 * ubuntujenkins has it
<pleia2> congrats guys :)
<Alcor> thx
<semioticrobotic> yes, I'm on it
<xfact> Downloading... 1.2 MB
<godbyk> Working for everyone?
<daftykins> yeah congratulations everyone \o/
<humphreybc> daker: should we hide the "Downloads" page from the nav bar for now, since there are not many options? :P
<daftykins> just downloaded
<themusicalduck> looks really great
<godbyk> (My webhost is probably freaking out about now.)
<humphreybc> well done guys
<semioticrobotic> \o/
<DasEi> again, interesting , does the site resolve ip's for their country ?
<daftykins> erk corrupted
<humphreybc> couldn't have done it without ya!
<godbyk> humphreybc: nah, I say leave it.
<ubuntujenkins> well done to all this channel is going so fast
<DnaX> there is a problem with the PDF download
<humphreybc> heh
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: many thanks to our fearless leader
<humphreybc> my first download was corrupted?
<godbyk> 'kay. lemme look into it
<daftykins> yeah i'm downloading again, my first was corrupt
<ubuntujenkins> mines fine
 * xfact cheers *splattering wine* 
<humphreybc> :)
 * humphreybc pops open the giant champagne bottle
<godbyk> daker's on it. no worries.
<DnaX> ok, now 4.6Mb file
<semioticrobotic> congratulations everyone
 * humphreybc prepares the press releases
<xfact> beer too
<DasEi> the pdf is still english, though the starter appears in german to me
<semioticrobotic> this is the first open source project on which I've had the pleasure of working, and it's been great
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-1004-manual-released.html
<humphreybc> good timing d0od
<humphreybc> although you're missing a link :P
 * ubuntujenkins 46 people at peak just for the notes
<xfact> humphreybc, Just saw your last stable announcement tweet, yay! ...retweeting
<humphreybc> daker: have we got that star in the works to point to lulu.com?
<humphreybc> howcome my download of the manual keeps dying at around 600 kb?
<godbyk> humphreybc: he's busy fixing things at the moment.
<humphreybc> ah ha
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> You can purchase a printed copy of the book from http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-ubuntu-1004/10793559
<godbyk> humphreybc: you should update the channel topic to something apropos.
<xfact> Mine failed near 2.6 MB... :(
<humphreybc> I should
<daftykins> in the mean time, how different are these print/screen editions?
<daker> xfact, yes sorry
<xfact> now problem
<xfact> *no
<h00k> ubottu now has a factoid regarding the manual
<xangua> !manual
<manualbot> Factoid 'manual' not found
<semioticrobotic> So we clocked in at 4.6 mb.  Not too shabby, really.
<h00k> manualbot doesn't
<manualbot> h00k: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> Factoid "doesn't" not found
<h00k> heh
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<DasEi> hoho, 170 sites, no more excuses.. oo
<daker> what this ?
<DasEi> Brain > xangua
<ubuntujenkins> !netsplit
<manualbot> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<DasEi> !brain > xangua
<manualbot> xangua, please see my private message
 * xangua ignores manualbot because he doesn't have it in his buddy list
<DnaX> Thanks to everyone ;)
<xangua> !brain > xangua
<manualbot> xangua, please see my private message
<DnaX> bye
<xfact> Bye
<DasEi> xangua: you can search factoids directly or message the bot for fishing
<xangua> ok ;)
<daker> where is humphreybc ?
<semioticrobotic> darker: booted somehow ... in a 'split'?
<semioticrobotic> what happens with those things?
<godbyk> Back now.
<godbyk> Not sure what happened there.
<daker> !netsplit
<manualbot> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: humphreybc left the chat room. (*.net *.split)
<semioticrobotic> [8:09pm] godbyk left the chat room. (*.net *.split)
<semioticrobotic> [8:09pm] issyl0 left the chat room. (*.net *.split)
<godbyk> gotcha.
<godbyk> thanks, semioticrobotic and daker .
<semioticrobotic> darker: thanks for that
<TMKCodes> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<daftykins> aww i was really looking forward to looking through the manual :(
<humphreybc> something funky happened there with my internet
<daker> !netsplit
<manualbot> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<semioticrobotic> site is already blitzed
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> godbyk, can your server handle it?
<DasEi> so I just overflew it, is it meant to get enlarged ? lucid will be lts..
<godbyk> humphreybc: hard to say. we'll find out.
<humphreybc> DasEi: there will be a second edition in July to cover some of the things we missed
<godbyk> it's going up and down apparently.
<godbyk> it's a shared server.
<godbyk> I have no real control over it.
<humphreybc> heh
 * humphreybc still can't download the PDF
<humphreybc> I keep getting corrupted PDFs cos the download stops at around 600 kb
<daker> me too
<DasEi> humphreybc: it would be nice to have the changes listed, like grub2, upstart plymouth and such, xorg.conf <>hardy
<daftykins> does anyone have it via another method that it can be posted on some free file sharing site for now?
<humphreybc> i'll put it on my server
<DasEi> shall I mirror the pdf ?
<humphreybc> even though that'll be real slow
<humphreybc> DasEi: feel free
<godbyk> I'll set up some mirrors, too.
<humphreybc> kay
<semioticrobotic> we could try a torrent, but that would circumvent humphreybc's attempt to calculate 10,000 downloads
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> all the press releases have been fired off
<DasEi> humphreybc: will do, I gtg soon for some time, will announce here later (small private line)
<semioticrobotic> awesome
<humphreybc> daker: godbyk, can we get the mirrors listed on the front page just for the time being, too?
<DasEi> ... first "native lucid is installing in background, after some vm's done
<daker> wait just a minute pls
<humphreybc> I guess the fact the server is struggling is a good sign :P
<h00k> I see you're hosted at dreamhost
 * h00k mirrors
<humphreybc> thanks h00k
<semioticrobotic> yeah, humphreybc, a good sign indeed
<h00k> http://anthonyrhook.com/Getting+Started+with+Ubuntu+10.04.pdf
<DasEi> next time in ubuntu there are just answers like : http ... page six  line 48 lol
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> if only
<DasEi> daftykins: hexadecimal o'course, hehe
<godbyk> h00k: yeah, I'm at dreamhost.
<h00k> godbyk: yeah, I saw that :)
<godbyk> You can grab a copy of the print PDF from here: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-ubuntu-1004/10793559
<DasEi> that's really a nice job stated there, the inventory could be more detailed, like a subsection saying re-install grub, but I'm aware of the work already done
<ubuntujenkins> ok screen version here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6544772/Getting%20Started%20with%20Ubuntu%2010.04.pdf
<DasEi> started*
<TMKCodes> http://www.crimasi.com/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> print (ie the book) here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6544772/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04%20%28print%29.pdf
<ubuntujenkins> *book version
<ubuntujenkins> go go go
<h00k> I 'dented a mirror pdf
<semioticrobotic> Well, friends, I need to pack it in for the evening.  Good luck with your mirroring, and congratulations on a job well done.
<ubuntujenkins> night se
<humphreybc> godbyk, what's the direct download link from the site?
<ubuntujenkins> night semioticrobotic
 * xfact 's copy downloaded successfully *glancing* 
<semioticrobotic> Tomorrow I'll probably pull lucid-e2 and begin my next round of edits!
<semioticrobotic> night ubuntujenkins
<godbyk> You can download/view it here, too: http://www.scribd.com/doc/30667167/Getting-Started-With-Ubuntu-10-04
<humphreybc> daker, godbyk, get at least two mirrors up on the front page asap
<godbyk> humphreybc: in progress.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: feel free to use the dropbox links account for this purpose only
<godbyk> sure.
<godbyk> I'm mirroring it on a couple other servers, too.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: did you e-mail enough lists?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: no :P
<godbyk> http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/~godbyk/Getting%20Started%20with%20Ubuntu%2010.04.pdf is another mirror
<ubuntujenkins> how did we crash it? there was only 46 people
<godbyk> not sure.
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: in the channel?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: yes
<humphreybc> It got reposted everywhere
<godbyk> I think one of daker's later updates did something funky.. it added some html to the top of the pdf.
<humphreybc> Facebook, twitter (we have 1300 fans on facebook)
<humphreybc> mailing lists, omgubuntu.co.uk had an article up straight away
<humphreybc> anyway, i have to head off, meeting thumper for a coffee now
<ubuntujenkins> he he popular
<h00k> Peace
<scouser73> humphreybc when is the omgubuntu podcast coming out?
<humphreybc> scouser73: ahh good question. Ask d0od
<humphreybc> he's on IRC atm
<scouser73> okies
<ubuntujenkins> I should probably go to bed. night team o/
<humphreybc> blame him for not editing it in time :P
<scouser73> lol
<xangua> didn't d0od go to sleepÂ¿Â¿
<MenZa> \o
<xangua> ooh that was thaco
 * humphreybc is off
<humphreybc> i'll be back soon
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> you better be!
<joscht> did i miss the countdown?
<godbyk> joscht: Yep.  We're already live.
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<joscht> oh ok then well thats still good news though i missed all the fanfare
<godbyk> I think my server is panicking a bit, so if you encounter problems, let me know and I'll give a mirrored link to the PDF.
<joscht> ok
<joscht> thanks
<godbyk> No problem.
<DasEi> ftp://ubuntu@ftp.greuelheuler.dyn-o-saur.com   is giving the pdf ?
<ubuntujenkins> omg the manual made it onto ubuntu fridge
<DasEi> ahh, my bad I'm still running a blocking router, can't change it now , will come up later, sry
<godbyk> No problem.
<xfact> .
<godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson
<godbyk> Two hours in and we have over 1500 downloads, and 10 copies of the book sold.
<doctormo> Congratulations humphreybc on the release
<godbyk> Hey, doctormo
<sebsebseb> Right
<sebsebseb> let's check out the
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu Manual then
<sebsebseb> and then bed soonish as well
<doctormo> humphreybc: I _really_ wish you had asked me to do (or peer review) your open source definition, it's got loads of errors in it.
<IlyaHaykinson> woohoo
<godbyk> doctormo: With regards to the CC license?
<doctormo> Page 141
<IlyaHaykinson> hey, how's it possible that we ended up releasing before lucid? ;-)
<IlyaHaykinson> doctormo, I agree, it's weak.
<IlyaHaykinson> if you can file a bug, we'll fix it in lucid-e2
<godbyk> Yeah, we'd definitely like to improve it for the second edition.
<doctormo> I'm trying to find a good reaction service online so I can quickly show you all the errors.
<epkugelmass> IlyaHaykinson, speaking of which, we need more releases for the e2 series
<IlyaHaykinson> there are a lot of other factual errors in there, for sure -- some that we know about; some that we don't.
<IlyaHaykinson> epkugelmass, you mean e1.1, e1.2, etc?
<epkugelmass> basically
<epkugelmass> a beta and rc at least
<IlyaHaykinson> yes.
<godbyk> I think we just haven't set up the e2 release stuff yet.
<godbyk> We'll be doing that this coming week.
<epkugelmass> ok. i've been dealing with bugs and targeting them to the only release available
<daker> godbyk, when lucid e2 will be released ?
<IlyaHaykinson> sure, i think that's fine. we'll triage all the bugs.
<IlyaHaykinson> daker, July 1 i think
<daker> good
<doctormo> IlyaHaykinson: Actually what I'm more concerned about is that this open source definition is a perpetuation of the usual misinformed open source and free software understanding.
<doctormo> We're trying to describe a political, social, technical and legal revolution with "It's charity and free" which is completely what it isn't.
<IlyaHaykinson> doctormo, i see it as being mainly weak, incomplete, overly general in some places and very specific in others.
<IlyaHaykinson> but it's not maliciously incorrect.
<doctormo> Not maliciously.
<epkugelmass> can someone please deal with lp:499657 ?
<doctormo> Just incorrect, inversely so in parts.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think that this is a touchy subject, and there's certainly a good way to write this section that is factually correct.
<IlyaHaykinson> i would suggest that you file a bug, with some bullet points (or even suggested copy), if you have some time.
<IlyaHaykinson> our goal for the second edition is "100% quality", so if something is wrong then we definitely need to fix it.
<thumper> humphreybc: #nzpug
<humphreybc> hi
<humphreybc> thumper: you beat me home
<thumper> :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker: Why don't I see the mirrors on the website?
<humphreybc> thumper: kk
<humphreybc> and launchpad people?
<epkugelmass> humphreybc, can you please address lp:499657 ASAP?
<daker> because it works
<godbyk> humphreybc: they're built in
<humphreybc> godbyk: nice!
<godbyk> just click the download button and it'll pick one automatically
<godbyk> yeah, that's how we do things. :)
<humphreybc> rock on :)
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: hehe, on it
<epkugelmass> thanks
<humphreybc> "Fix released."
<humphreybc> Rock on
<epkugelmass> humphreybc, we need to change the download on launchpad and make an announcement
<humphreybc> that we do
<IlyaHaykinson> actually...
<IlyaHaykinson> i woudl keep that bug open
<IlyaHaykinson> i think our manual will be "incomplete" for a long time.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: it's open for ubuntu-manual but fix released for lucid
<IlyaHaykinson> much like, say, bug 1
<epkugelmass> i just deactivated the lucid-final-release milestone
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<IlyaHaykinson> alright, now just need to wait for Lucid itself to drop ;-)
<epkugelmass> humphreybc, nominated lp:499657 for l-e2
<humphreybc> thanks Elan
<IlyaHaykinson> daker, http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors -- links to the quickshotdevs team in LP
<humphreybc> godbyk: what's our guesstimate on the number of downloads including mirrors?
<humphreybc> does the script count the mirror downloads too now?
<godbyk> no clue on the mirrors
<godbyk> yes
<humphreybc> kk
<humphreybc> what are we up to?
<godbyk> current downloads through our site are 1700.
<sebsebseb> !manual | h00k
<manualbot> Factoid 'manual' not found
<sebsebseb> oh yeah of course
<sebsebseb> it won't be here
<h00k> :D
<godbyk> daker has this awesome stats site he wrote. I'm trying to get it set up.
<godbyk> then you can see the stats, too.
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> and the "star" for the lulu.com link is being worked on?
<epkugelmass> one more technical item humphreybc: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/final-release-lucid/+status
<daker> humphreybc, i don't have a star
<humphreybc> daker: can you make one?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: shame about the cover, but good manual
<humphreybc> or do you want me to create one for you
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: shame about the cover?
<godbyk> why don't we just add a button for now (below the download button)
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah saw some really nice ones before in development,  and the cover is nothing like those
<daker> humphreybc, yes
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: the cover has to take in other requirements such as printer friendly-ness
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<humphreybc> and it has to be generated for each language, so it can't be overly complicated
<humphreybc> hey look
<humphreybc> http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<epkugelmass> great!
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: people in #ubuntu-release-party like it by the way
<humphreybc> neat
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: now a break I guess?  I mean won't know much about  10.10 untill after UDS,  and just after that I guess is a bit to early to start on the next one?
<epkugelmass> sebsebseb, we have e2 coming out in just a few short months!
<sebsebseb> what's e2?
<godbyk> sebsebseb: Second edition.
<epkugelmass> lucid-edition2
<sebsebseb> oh the point release?
<humphreybc> daker: the website is looking great
<sebsebseb> 10.04.1  or the manual?
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: it's not a point release, it's a second edition for Lucid that we're releasing
<IlyaHaykinson> sebsebseb, second edition of the manual
<humphreybc> mainly fixing bugs coz Lucid is an LTS
<daker> humphreybc, thanks
<sebsebseb> right except
<humphreybc> and we didn't have much time this cyclc
<humphreybc> cycle*
<sebsebseb> I thought even with LTS they only do security updates?
<sebsebseb> they won't  bring in new end user features for example
<sebsebseb> some changes under the hood sure security updates
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> that's why we're not going to do point releases for the manual
<humphreybc> nothing new to add
<epkugelmass> sebsebseb, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2
<sebsebseb> right so Lucid Edition 2 is just some impovements to the manual after feedback or something~?
<doctormo> humphreybc: Fixes to make!
<humphreybc> doctormo: report them as bugs!
<doctormo> http://www.co-ment.net/embed/2458/public_view/
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: seems the first edition is being sold as a book as well, but that means it will be outdated in about two months
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: technically, yeah
<humphreybc> but it's only $9 USD, and it won't be a HUGE amount of changes, just bug fixing
<humphreybc> it's not the end of the world
<doctormo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/571524
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 571524 in ubuntu-manual "Open Source definition is inaccurate" [Undecided,New]
<sebsebseb> oh got
<sebsebseb> thing on Launchpad as well
<sebsebseb> for bugs for the manual
<sebsebseb> sort of interesting
<IlyaHaykinson> sebsebseb, the purpose of the printed version is not to make money (we take no cut), but to allow people to have a printed version if they so desire, without printing it themselves.
<sebsebseb> or not really since, had a launchpad page anyway
<IlyaHaykinson> obviously as soon as anything is printed it'd be out of date when we change it.
<sebsebseb> who is getting the money for printed version, the publisher?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: by the way I hope the graphics for the manual weren't made on a Mac,  like the graphics for Ubuntu 10.04 are
<sebsebseb> Mac OS X hrm
<humphreybc> doctormo: I've confirmed your bug and assigned you
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: nope, made in Inkscape on Ubuntu by thorwil
<sebsebseb> ok :)
<sebsebseb> anyway if  the manual has a wrong open source definition, that's not good
<humphreybc> it's not *wrong*
<humphreybc> it's just not perfect
<sebsebseb> ah ok
<humphreybc> and doctormo is very picky
<humphreybc> :P
<doctormo> Because hitler just *wasn't perfect* ;-P
<humphreybc> lol
<IlyaHaykinson> no, doctormo is right -- not just picky.
<IlyaHaykinson> it's just a thorny subject.
<humphreybc> godbyk: "More languages will be available next week: English UK, Galician, German & Greek. Other languages will be released over the next few weeks."
<humphreybc> hear that?
<godbyk> Heh.
<godbyk> We'll see. :)
<godbyk> We should really give them time to edit their stuff first.
<epkugelmass> godbyk, is there anything i can do to help get the translated manuals at the door?
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc, well, to be fair i don't think we'll release all 50...
<IlyaHaykinson> i think if we get 20 out the door it'll be great.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: no we won't
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> okay now we need to go into feedback and research mode
<humphreybc> then planning mode
<humphreybc> We should encourage reviews of our manual
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: Could you work with nisshh on developing a survey?
<IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: no, i don't think this is the right approach
<IlyaHaykinson> i've got a meeting with a friend of mine who runs user research
<IlyaHaykinson> i think we need to take a step back and design some qualitative research
<IlyaHaykinson> user groups, etc.
<doctormo> I introduced the manual to all my students today at the community center, they all seemed very interested and left with copies.
<IlyaHaykinson> then, based on that, we will figure out what _quantitative_ research to do
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. how to structure and administer surveys
<humphreybc> okay
<IlyaHaykinson> but i think the qualitative has to come first.
<humphreybc> that sounds good
<humphreybc> Can I leave it in your capable hands?
<IlyaHaykinson> sure. i'll drive it for a while.
<IlyaHaykinson> will let you know when i need help. i'll keep ppl updated, for sure.
<humphreybc> okay, nisshh is keen to help
<humphreybc> he's eager and motivated, you will be able to find something for him to do :)
<epkugelmass> IlyaHaykinson, let me know if I can help. I'm a student--plenty of prospective users that I can focus group
<IlyaHaykinson> sweet. i'll keep him in the loop after my meetings.
<humphreybc> great
<IlyaHaykinson> epkugelmass: thanks. we'll probably need all the help we can get for recruiting.
<IlyaHaykinson> but i first really want to do the design work on the research
<humphreybc> let's start work on that asap. We need to start thinking about what we can put into 2nd edition, because we don't have much time since we are trying to cram in two releases this cycle.
<IlyaHaykinson> i.e. figure out _how_ and _what_ we could do
<IlyaHaykinson> i think all the research work will really end up targeting maverick, not lucid-e2.
<IlyaHaykinson> it'll take a few weeks to get setup, then more time to get feedback.
<IlyaHaykinson> meanwhile we know what we are missing in lucid-e1, and can start on that immediately
<IlyaHaykinson> i think that for lucid-e2 we rely on our own knowledge of _problems_ - i.e. things that are not high quality enough
<IlyaHaykinson> and on the community, in reporting bugs
<IlyaHaykinson> for lucid-e2, we would keep the structure of the lucid-e1 manual mainly intact
<IlyaHaykinson> but for maverick, we may end up reorganizing wide swaths of the book if that's what research recommends.
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: sounds good to me
<humphreybc> godbyk: how many people have bought the book from lulu?
<godbyk> humphreybc: 10 total including yours and Ilya's.
<humphreybc> godbyk: not an overwhelming number but that's good
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: can you check if the Listing & Reading Projects API at http://api.lulu.com/publication/python_tutorial.php returns the number of downloads?
<IlyaHaykinson> er, purchases
<godbyk> lemme look
<godbyk> If so, it'll be another stat to go on the stats.ubuntu-manual.org site that daker and I are working on.  all our stats collected in one place.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I'm not seeing anything on the particular page about sales/purchases.
<godbyk> Looks like it's more for uploading stuff to their site and getting the results of the project's creation.
<IlyaHaykinson> no, but i am wondering if list_projects() may output some stats
<IlyaHaykinson> it probably doesn't. it's just a hope.
<godbyk> Ah, I see.  Not sure. I'll try it.
<IlyaHaykinson> better yet, call client.__submit('list', None, None)
<godbyk> their code is horrible
<IlyaHaykinson> because list_projects seems to only extract the list of content_ids, but the result of the list call may return more stuff than that.
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah, the code is a bit, um, unhappy
<godbyk> I can't even get their hello, world to run.
<godbyk> oh!
<godbyk> it's trying to connect to server 127.0.0.1
<godbyk> wtf
<arand> humphreybc: Is it too late for reporting petty errors in the manual?
<humphreybc> arand: for this release, yes, but please do, we'll fix them in the next release
<humphreybc> we own the planet: http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<arand> Is bug reports the way to go? (Proposed change is one single ":")
<humphreybc> arand: yes please
<humphreybc> you could combine multiple small grammatical errors into one bug report if you like
<arand> humphreybc: The little I've read. I've not found many :)
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> that's good
<humphreybc> we like to hear these things
<godbyk> humphreybc: 2300 downloads.
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> I think we'll reach our target
<godbyk> You'll have to go back to the FCM podcast and say, 'Yeah, about that server issue you mentioned..'  ;-)
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> give me wording for the lulu star thing
<godbyk> Ugh.. "Buy the book!"
<humphreybc> godbyk, daker: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/website-star.png
<humphreybc> is that good?
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> or should it be gree?
<humphreybc> green*
<IlyaHaykinson> orange, and have dots spaced far apart ;-[
<IlyaHaykinson> ;-p
<humphreybc> dots spaced far apart? lol
<humphreybc> is that good?
<humphreybc> wording, colour, size etc?
<daker> orange
<humphreybc> refresh
<humphreybc> or aubergine?
<daker> it too big
<daker> should be something this
<daker> http://www.web20badges.com/images/badge-orange-web.jpg
<humphreybc> is that colour okay?
<humphreybc> I can make it a circle with jagged edges if you like
<humphreybc> I tried that but liked the star shape more
<daker> i mean the size
<godbyk> http://www.web20badges.com/
<godbyk> humphreybc: or you can just generate it: http://www.web20badges.com/
<humphreybc> no!
<humphreybc> refresh
<godbyk> it's harder to read now
<humphreybc> better?
<daker> yes
<daker> the problem is
<daker> where should i put it ?
<humphreybc> where it is in the mockup
<humphreybc> can you do that?
<humphreybc> sort of... on top of everything
<humphreybc> refresh again
<daker> there is the mockup ?
<godbyk> still kind of hard to read.
<godbyk> more contrast! :)
<humphreybc> i'll make the colour a bit lighter
<daker> we are at 2500 downloads
<godbyk> daker: I was just about to point that out. :)
<daker> \o/
<humphreybc> kk fixing contrast, one se
<humphreybc> refresh
<godbyk> daker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/571531
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 571531 in ubuntu-manual "website detects locale/language incorrectly" [Undecided,New]
<godbyk> humphreybc: better
<humphreybc> god it looks so different between my two monitors
<humphreybc> my laptop is REALLY dark orange, on my Dell 24" it's like... yellow
<humphreybc> refresh agai
<humphreybc> and again..
<humphreybc> we happy?
<humphreybc> daker: is that good?
<daker> good
<humphreybc> can we get it to sort of overlap the main content area, like in the mockup I did?
<daker> where is the mockup ?
<IlyaHaykinson> logging off, tty folks l8r
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual-print.png
<humphreybc> refresh manual print
<humphreybc> ignore the facebook, twitter icons and stuff
<humphreybc> wait a sec, i'll take a screenshot of the actual site
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> daker, you might have to make the "Download now" button a bit shorter
<daker> oki
<daker> Wow 107.88 downloads per hour
<godbyk> plus another 200 total for the print version.
<humphreybc> daker:
<humphreybc> here: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/star-placement-1.png
<humphreybc> or here: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/star-placement-2.png
<humphreybc> (depending on whether you can actually get the star to overlap the fading images
<daker> at left
<humphreybc> which one are you going to do? 2?
<daker> yes
<daker> 2
<humphreybc> neat, can you make it overlap the fading images?
<daker> i'll try
<daker> but pls not now because i am very very tired, and it's 04:00
<humphreybc> okay, go get some rest :)
<humphreybc> you've done a great job :)
<daker> godbyk, too :)
<daker> night all and good counting :)
<humphreybc> night daker! good work, have a good sleep!
<daker> a 12 hours of sleep
<daker> hhhhhhhh
<arand> So it is planned to be sold in book format? Where and how much?
<humphreybc> it's on lulu.com
<humphreybc> let me find the link
<humphreybc> http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-ubuntu-1004/10793559
<arand> Nice :)
<humphreybc> so we had like, 46 people in here at one stage
<humphreybc> new record?
<arand> humphreybc: You should host the #ubuntu-release-afterparty in here ;)
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> we can party
<c7p> hello guys, congratulations :d
<godbyk> Hey, c7p. Thanks!
<IlyaHaykinson> c7p: thx!
<godbyk> 3700+ downloads
<c7p> oh cool
<godbyk> (well, that's just the on-screen version)
<godbyk> print version is another 280 downloads
<c7p> very good
<godbyk> 13 copies of the book sold, too
<c7p> from what i see on facebook, you want editors for some languages (Galician, German, Greek)
<godbyk> c7p: Yeah, we'd like a translator in each group (or at least someone who speaks the language well and has a critical eye) to enlist as the editor for that translation
<godbyk> the translation editors are the ones who will clear the translated manual for release, basically.
<godbyk> make sure the translations are good, and the formatting is good, etc., etc.
<c7p> you mean correct any wrong translations etc ?
<godbyk> help correct translations, help out with latex formatting, yeah.
<godbyk> for instance, I edited the English version that was released today.
<godbyk> most of the margin notes needed to be moved around a bit.
<godbyk> .. so that they would line up with the part of the paragraph they referred to.
<c7p> oh
<c7p> so we'll merge some strings
<godbyk> yeah, probably.
<godbyk> you can also move the margin notes around by telling it to move it up or down X lines.
<c7p> how we do this? with latex ?
<godbyk> c7p: That's probably the easiest.
<godbyk> I would wait 'til the translations are proofread.
<godbyk> Once they're all correct, we can generate a .tex file and move things around as needed.
<c7p> interesting
<c7p> well g2g
<c7p> we will talk sometime today, i hope
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: you're up early!~
<ubuntujenkins> morning all how are we doing
<humphreybc> oh you know, just over 4000 downloads
<humphreybc> 13 copies of the book sold
<humphreybc> anyways, i best go!
<humphreybc> exam time
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc yes i have lectures. wow thats good plus the mirrors
<ubuntujenkins> good luck
<humphreybc> danke!
<ubuntujenkins> ooo quickshot has a 3 more people who want to join
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: there was a bad link on the website
<godbyk> that directed people to the quickshot team instead of the ubuntu-manual team
<godbyk> the link's been fixed.
<godbyk> I've emailed those 4 people to make sure they didn't mean the ubuntu-manual team.
<ubuntujenkins> are makes sense thanks godbyk.
<godbyk> I told them if they were interested in quickshot, they should pop into the irc channel and chat up either you or RedHamster_X.
<ubuntujenkins> cheers
<IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: i don't think your website re-pull thing is working
<IlyaHaykinson_> either that, or there's a caching layer
<godbyk> I'll look
<godbyk> I'm at revno 64, what are you at?
<godbyk> oh! hey, make sure you're making your edits in the test/ dir.
<godbyk> the main site is point at test/ now.
<IlyaHaykinson_> er, what?
<IlyaHaykinson_> really?
<godbyk> yep
<IlyaHaykinson_> so what's main?
<godbyk> daker was testing up until the last second (literally) and so we just swapped out the symlink.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i see. ok.
<godbyk> main is has lagged behind testing for a few hours.
<godbyk> we'll eventually set them straight.
<godbyk> but we were under a bit of pressure, what with humphreybc's random countdown and all. :-)
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok, pushed the change to test. thx.
<godbyk> np
<godbyk> I'm trying to figure out why the German translation is harping about a glossary entry now.
<godbyk> It's claiming there's no description for the Wubi entry.
<godbyk> But I'm staring right at it.
 * godbyk is confused.
<IlyaHaykinson_> bad character?
<godbyk> Not really sure.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: may be he means the wubi sin't mentioned in the manaul
<godbyk> here's the .tex file if you want to stare at it with me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/424427/
<godbyk> I just made a fake wubi entry for now, and it doesn't like that either.
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil!
<thorwil> hi!
<ubuntujenkins> hello thorwil
<godbyk> We're at about 5000 downloads and 13 books purchased.
<thorwil> wow
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<godbyk> all in 6.5 hours.
<ubuntujenkins> I can't see a problem with the glossary entry
<IlyaHaykinson_> could it be because it's the last one before the \begin{document}?
<IlyaHaykinson_> and if you add another (fake) one after wubi, the thing would be complaining about -it- now?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Maybe. I'll try.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Nice call! I think you're on to something.
<godbyk> It complained about the new one I added.
<godbyk> Okay, Lemme do some binary searching and narrow this down.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i think there are too few }s in the glossary section
<IlyaHaykinson_> 161 {s and 126 }s
<godbyk> probably.
<godbyk> wow
<godbyk> it's that unbalanced?!
<thorwil> humphreybc: the announcement is already on the planet thanks to the fridge. do you really think i should repeat that?
<IlyaHaykinson_> no, i must be mistaken. i don't see how though (script seemed correct)
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: what script are you using?
<godbyk> I used to have one that counted parens, braces, etc. like that, but don't know where it's gotten off to.
<IlyaHaykinson_> cat glossary-section | tr --complement '{' '\n' | egrep -v '^$' | wc -l
<IlyaHaykinson_> then the same thing with '}
<IlyaHaykinson_> '}'
<IlyaHaykinson_> but clearly i'm wrong
<godbyk> I'll just write up a quick python script. :)
<IlyaHaykinson_> it's balanced
<IlyaHaykinson_> fold --bytes --width=1 test | sort | uniq -c | egrep "\{|\}"
<IlyaHaykinson_> where test has our text
<IlyaHaykinson_> 161 for both { and }
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: humphreybc is at an exam. I guess proabbely best not to spam it with reelases at least one other person has reposted it
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: yeah, that's what i think
<ubuntujenkins> nope they have posted it twice. We have lost 30 faecboook fans from all the posts yesterday
<godbyk> ok
<IlyaHaykinson_> ah, but the whole documen is unbalanced
<IlyaHaykinson_> lacking a }
<godbyk> any idea where?
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> usually latex's good about tell me that.
<godbyk> but it's not getting past the glossary entries yet.
<IlyaHaykinson_> run that script on the individual chapter files
<godbyk> back now.
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: there are no individual chapter files for the translations.
<IlyaHaykinson_> ok hang on i have a system for it. gimme 2 min
<godbyk> they're all merged into that one huge file.
<ChrisWoollard> Well done for getting the manual out
<godbyk> Thanks, ChrisWoollard
<godbyk> whoa! major spike in downloads the last hour: http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=bvg&chs=550x320&chxt=x,x,y&chd=t:62,25,57,58,55,48,93,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&chds=0,93&chxl=0:|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|01|02|03|04|05|06|07|08|09|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|00|1:|28/04|29/04|2:|0|23|46|62|93
<godbyk> I think Europe is waking up. :)
<IlyaHaykinson_> found it (default apps somewhere) hang on narrowing further
<godbyk> k
<IlyaHaykinson_> rhythmbox section. narrowing further
<godbyk> try line 4614
<IlyaHaykinson_> \subsection{Freigegebene Musik hÃ¶ren}
<IlyaHaykinson_> it's in that section
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Yeah, that's where it is
<godbyk> extra { before the \marginnote.
<IlyaHaykinson_> nod
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> let me try to recompile this whole thing again now.
<godbyk> (so time-consuming, chasing down this little bugs.)
<godbyk> I spent a few hours on it yesterday.
<godbyk> cleared all but this one, I think.
<godbyk> I think our site is getting more hits now than it did when we first released the manual.
<IlyaHaykinson_> well, all the excitement of the Lucid release will buoy our site too
<godbyk> yeah, especially since it's not out yet.
<IlyaHaykinson_> i just spammed #ubuntu-release-party about the manual :)
<godbyk> Heh. nice. humphreybc did earlier, too
<IlyaHaykinson_> and spammed #ubuntu for good measure
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I'm running this http://code.google.com/p/logstalgia/ against my server life.
<godbyk> (streaming the access.log file over ssh straight into the program)
<godbyk> it's fun.
<godbyk> when things settle down (tomorrow?), I'll take the access logs and run them through the program and generate a video of it.
<IlyaHaykinson_> ah, cute.
<godbyk> so we can see it go from a ghost town to being attacked all at once.
<IlyaHaykinson_> though really, apart from all the hoopla today, it's the long term usage that counts... :)
<godbyk> yep
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: that video would be so cool
<RPG-Master> I want to thank everyone who made this awesome little "for dummies" guide you've put together. My non-geek friends would thank you too :)
<godbyk> RPG-Master: No problem.  Though it's not a for-dummies guide, as dummies don't use Linux. :)
<RPG-Master> godbyk: Being compared to the for dummies series is a good thing! :D
<godbyk> Ah, okay then. :)
<RPG-Master> They're famous for being well written and plain worded. So, good for those who aren't geeky ;)
<humphreybc> back
<humphreybc> exam was rather easy
<humphreybc> although i forgot a couple of things
<humphreybc> how input() behaves in the interpreter
<humphreybc> also what "%-5d" % n does
<godbyk> humphreybc: we're almost at 6000 downloads
<humphreybc> nice!
<godbyk> there was a bit of a spike last hour
<humphreybc> sweet
<ubuntujenkins> probably because the uk got up
<humphreybc> holy moly
<humphreybc> 252.25 downloads an hour now
<godbyk> http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=bvg&chs=550x320&chxt=x,x,y&chd=t:10,1067,508,541,568,679,696,1167,814,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&chds=0,1167&chxl=0:|16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|00|01|02|03|04|05|06|07|08|09|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|00|1:|28/04|29/04|2:|0|291|583|778|1167
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> nice URL
<godbyk> yeah, thank google chart api for that one. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I have found the xindy package in debian, so just got to get enoght info to upload it to a ppa
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: nice
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: got the needed stuff.
<IlyaHaykinson_> all that's missing is the operating system
<IlyaHaykinson_> that's the subject of our manual :)
<ubuntujenkins> if anyone wants me i for quickshot ping me and i will get back to them
<humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson_: ?
<humphreybc> godbyk, latest comment: http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-released/#comments
<humphreybc> (about the fonts)
<jaminday> hey guys, great to see the manual is out the door! Just ordered a print from lulu.
<humphreybc> hey jamin!
<godbyk> humphreybc: got it.  I replied.  there's a colophon at the back of the manual the gives urls and stuff about the fonts and other tools we used.
<jaminday> humphreybc: hey, sorry haven't been around for a while!
<humphreybc> godbyk: there is?
<humphreybc> jaminday: that's all good
<godbyk> 15 books sold, then.
<godbyk> humphreybc: yep. I added that at the last minute along with a half-title page (for the print version only) and a bit more info on the copyright page.
<jaminday> godbyk: great!
<jaminday> sounds like the downloads are going well
<humphreybc> nice
<humphreybc> yeah they are jamin
<humphreybc> craking way past 6000
<jaminday> wow that's fantastic
<humphreybc> we should easily reach 10,000 in the first 24 hours
<jaminday> nice
<humphreybc> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/28/jon-stewart-rips-into-apple-over-lost-iphone-debacle-thats-going-to-leave-a-mark/
<godbyk> which we only care about because humphreybc set that as some arbitrary goal. :)
<jaminday> godbyk: hehe
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> 100,000 downloads by UDS
<godbyk> How many days between now and then?
<IlyaHaykinson_> i don't think that is realisti c
<humphreybc> 11
<IlyaHaykinson_> we don't have consumer marketing
<IlyaHaykinson_> existing linux users don't really need a manual generally
<IlyaHaykinson_> and we aren't yet reaching non-users or new users effectively
<Daviey> while do; do wget http://$MANULA_URL ; done
<godbyk> lol
<IlyaHaykinson_> heh
<Daviey> erm, YKWIM
<IlyaHaykinson_> hm. are we really having bandwidth issues?
<humphreybc> Good to see Apple getting some serious negative press
<IlyaHaykinson_> if we are, i can try reaching out to a few contacts at Akamai
<IlyaHaykinson_> maybe i can get them to throw in their CDN service for free for our use
<IlyaHaykinson_> but i don't want to ask unless we really need it
<IlyaHaykinson_> and it's not just a temporary problem for the next few days
<humphreybc> I think we're okay now
<IlyaHaykinson_> if this changes, let me know.
<godbyk> I don't think we have bandwidth issues.
<godbyk> I think the original problem was due to CPU usage.
<godbyk> And we've resolved that issue (I hope).
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> I wonder if you'll get an email from Dreamhost being like "Why the hell did your bandwidth usage increase 1000% in an hour?!"
<humphreybc> "What are you, releasing the new iPhone!?"
<godbyk> heh
<humphreybc> our downloads are still increasing
<godbyk> yeah, we'll probably see them increase even more when the US wakes up.
<humphreybc> heh
<IlyaHaykinson_> i would wait about a day, and then approach the folks at lifehacker.com and try to get them to cover us.
<IlyaHaykinson_> _after_ the OS drops
<godbyk> we'll probably hit humphreybc's 10,000 downloads before the day's half over.
<godbyk> that's a good idea, IlyaHaykinson_.
<godbyk> I'll be back in a moment. Going to find something for supper.
<humphreybc> I included a lifehacker editor's email in the original press release I sent out
 * godbyk is still wrestling with this German manual and needs a break.
<IlyaHaykinson_> alright
<IlyaHaykinson_> i'm off to bed; happy ubuntu day, everyone
<humphreybc> night IlyaHaykinson_
<thorwil> humphreybc: instead of just repeating the announcement, i'll prepare a post about the titlepage process, with examples of at least 3 translations. i might add a note about our stats there
<godbyk> It's settled then: I'm having spaghetti for dinner. :)
<godbyk> thorwil: that sounds like a great idea!
<humphreybc> thorwil: that sounds good :)
<godbyk> thorwil: also, get a dig in about how it took canonical too long to get their logo and colors to us. :)
<thorwil> godbyk: yeah, planned that, too
<popey> morning
<thorwil> morning popey
<humphreybc> sup popey
<humphreybc> *g unit*
<humphreybc> and all that
<popey> just had someone tell me the screenshots look bad in evince..
 * humphreybc is off to do dishes, back in a bit
<popey> but okay in acroread
<humphreybc> popey: that would be on karmic
<popey> ahh
<popey> no, lucid
<popey> fixed in git, not in lucid
<godbyk> thorwil: did you see the visual identity stuff posted yesterday?
<godbyk> popey: should be fixed in lucid, too.  at least it was last time I looked on my laptop.
<godbyk> we got the patch backported.
<thorwil> godbyk: yes, before anyone else outside of Canonical, afaik
<thorwil> godbyk: i pointed out an issue with the colors, had some notes on the pdf and some not so friendly words of how the process looks like from the outside
<godbyk> popey: here's the bug where we (allegedly) fixed the issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/poppler/+bug/248355
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 248355 in poppler "Evince doesn't anti-alias graphics" [Low,Fix released]
<thorwil> godbyk: if you take the "for web" color they specify, you end up with something that is more red than orange, so we are better off with our custom orange, anyway
<godbyk> thorwil: nice!
<godbyk> thorwil: print and web are two different animals, as well.  usually the colors have to be adjusted.
<thorwil> godbyk: i know. but if you take one of the SVGs, export to PDF, you end up with something that is very different from the tone in the guidelines. on screen. will be about the same difference in print
<thorwil> see here: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/d3dae3e88edce0d243dba8d7f5ccd113
<thorwil> the design team got the same shot
<godbyk> thorwil: wow!
<godbyk> thorwil: what causes that?
<thorwil> godbyk: any of: some color management vs no color management, working on macs, never testing with inkscape and co, getting the hex numbers wrong?
<thorwil> the only thing i'm sure about is the result is not acceptable
 * thorwil pushed Hebrew title page just to have an RTL example
<godbyk> back now
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> thorwil: god that's awful
<humphreybc> they had enough time to get it right, too
<humphreybc> who'd you tell off?
<thorwil> humphreybc: Iain and Kenneth
<nisshh> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! PARTY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<thorwil> nisshh: i'm not sure i parse that correctly ... are you excited?
<nisshh> thorwil: YEAAAA!!! what cant you tell?
<nisshh> humphreybc: who put, manualbot in the cledits on the website, hehehe...
<hemanth> i found a TeXLive2009 ppa in LP, would you guys recommend it ? https://launchpad.net/~aelmahmoudy/+archive/tl2009
<godbyk> hemanth: I haven't tried it for a few months, but I'm not sure if it contains new enough version of files that we need. It's possible, though.
<humphreybc> Looks like we're going to be stickyed in the Absolute Beginners thread
<hemanth> godbyk, ok, cos from source i tried 3 time, getting few n/w issues
<godbyk> hemanth: What issues are you having?
<godbyk> humphreybc: awesome
<hemanth> godbyk, it fails to fetch some file, and says its saved in some *.property file and i'm continue again, but again it says the same
<hemanth> *i'm,i may
<godbyk> hemanth: that's during the texlive installation?
<hemanth> yes
<hemanth> godbyk, on sudo ./install-tl
<godbyk> Gotcha.
<godbyk> That's odd.  Have you tried running it with a different mirror?
<hemanth> nope!
<godbyk> You might give that a shot.  It's possible the file is missing from that particular mirror.
<nisshh> does anyone know how many downloads we have had yet?
<nisshh> be interesting to know
<godbyk> nisshh: 9,000.
<hemanth> godbyk, what is the parameter to switch to new mirror?
 * nisshh giggles like girl...
<godbyk> hemanth: I think one of the menu options lets you choose a mirror.  It's been quite a while since I've run it.
<nisshh> humphreybc: looks like we will hit 10k downloads easy
<hemanth> godbyk, only cli is working for me here! install-tl --gui=wizard is not
<humphreybc> nisshh: yeah!
<godbyk> hemanth: the cli has a text-based menu, too.
<godbyk> let me give it a shot real quick
<hemanth> okies, me in text mode
<godbyk> hemanth: ./install-tl -repository URL
<godbyk> hemanth: you can find a list of mirrors at http://ctan.org/mirrors
<hemanth> Partial download of bibleref.tar.xz found, removing it. URL by default is http://ctan.um.ac.ir
<hemanth> godbyk, okies checking the mirror
<humphreybc> http://madforubuntu.com/?p=24
<hemanth> godbyk, TLDownload::get_file: response error:404 Not Found, for 3 url's in a row!  phew
<godbyk> hemanth: you can also try http://mirror.ctan.org/
<godbyk> and it'll choose one for you
<hemanth> godbyk, 302 found and it selected http://ctan.um.ac.ir/
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> of course
<hemanth> same thing is broken
<godbyk> hemanth: Okay. You may try emailing the tex-live mailing list and see if they can help more, too: http://tug.org/texlive/lists.html
<hemanth> godbyk, done mail sent :)
<godbyk> hemanth: cool.  let me know how it turns out.
<hemanth> godbyk, sure
<humphreybc> almost at 10,000 downloads!
<nisshh> woooooo!
<godbyk> 9984
<godbyk> 10000
<godbyk> w00t!
 * nisshh screams far too loudly for this time of night
 * nisshh is kidding!
<humphreybc> yippers!
<godbyk> humphreybc's so ecstatic, he fell of the internet!
<humphreybc> hahaha
<Daker> Yeah over than 10000 downloads \o/
<godbyk> Daker: yep! It just rolled over.
<godbyk> Daker: and the site seems to be holding up without any problems.
<Daker> cool
<godbyk> (even through 3+ hours of higher traffic than that first hour.)
<Daker> Congratulations Guys
<godbyk> You, too
<godbyk> The US is just now waking up, so I think we're going to get a lot more downloads in the next few hours.
<Daker> oki
<Daker> brb breakfast time for me
<humphreybc> yay!
<godbyk> Okay, guys, I'm headed to bed.  Don't break anything while I'm gone! :-)
<humphreybc> okay!~
<humphreybc> night!
<godbyk> Also, congratulations on a great first release!
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> couldn't have done it without ya!
<godbyk> 10,640 downloads and counting...
<godbyk> I'll be back around in 8-9 hours, probably.
<humphreybc> kay
<c7p> hello
<humphreybc> hey c7p
<c7p> godbyk are you there?
<humphreybc> he's asleeping
<c7p> ah ok
<c7p> i can imagine he had a long day
<c7p> actually i read a post on fb "Different languages will be available next week, most likely English UK, Galician, German and Greek. Other languages will be released as the translations are completed over the next few weeks."
<c7p> and i want to learn what can i do
<c7p> *We will need editors for these languages too, so if you speak one of the above, please contact us ASAP in the channel: #ubuntu-manual on freenode.
<c7p> my native language is greek, i have been translating the manual from the beginning (when it had 500 strings) till now, so i think i can help
<daker> after 12hours we have 11257 downloads
<c7p> great :D
<nisshh> weeeee!
<nisshh> they are coming in thick and fast now
<daker> top 5 countries
<daker> US (United States) : 1557 downloads
<daker> CN (China) : 907 downloads
<daker> ES (Spain) : 703 downloads
<daker> GB (United Kingdom) : 624 downloads
<daker> RU (Russian Federation) : 556 downloads
<thorwil> humphreybc: uhm, the lulu edition isn't available, yet?
<daker> thorwil, it's available
<daker> thorwil, http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-ubuntu-1004/10793559
<daker> for the printed version: 909 downloads
<daker> top 5 :
<daker> CN (China) : 141 downloads
<daker> US (United States) : 97 downloads
<daker> GB (United Kingdom) : 50 downloads
<daker> TW (Taiwan) : 46 downloads
<daker> ES (Spain) : 43 downloads
<humphreybc> thorwil: daker's going to add a link on the main site pointing to lulu soon
<thorwil> daker: ah, thanks. couldn't find it via lulu search
<humphreybc> thorwil: really? google "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 lulu"
<thorwil> well, their own search sucks, obviously
<c7p> on our website some languages aren't available from the drop-down list
<c7p> can someone repair it?
<daker> cause they are not translated completely
<c7p> actually it is 100% translated in greek and there is no option on the list, that's why i mentioned it
<daker> oki i'll check
<c7p> ty
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-title-page-design/
<c7p> nice job thorwill
<c7p> thorwil*
<semioticrobotic> anyone else having trouble getting ubuntu.com load?
<thorwil> c7p: ty
<daker> me
<semioticrobotic> okay, just checking
 * thorwil edit to add a line about number of downloads so far
<semioticrobotic> I'm sure the site's getting a major overhaul today, in addition to the 10.04 blitz
<humphreybc>  those translated title pages look so kickass, thorwil
<humphreybc> 12,500 downloads and the download rate is still increasing
<hemanth> :)
<semioticrobotic> so much for wondering whether we'll hit 10,000!
<hemanth> is z.varallyay here? i saw the mailing list of advanced command line, i would be pleased to contribute to this sector of the manual, few of my scripts are https://launchpad.net/scripting and http://is.gd/bMZzK
<thorwil> humphreybc: heh, thank you! coffee time!
<hemanth> godbyk, still no response form the tex developers
<humphreybc> Oo
<humphreybc> lucky they catched this
<humphreybc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/570765
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 570765 in ubiquity "[Lucid] no GRUB menu entry for other operating systems" [Critical,Confirmed]
<semioticrobotic> will that delay today's release, humphreybc?
<humphreybc> it may do, but i believe they've got it sorted and are respinning the ISOs
<semioticrobotic> okay
<semioticrobotic> well, at any rate, I'm not able to perform my upgrade today
<semioticrobotic> but just wondering
<humphreybc> read the comments
<humphreybc> they're an interesting insight into the stress of Canonical employees around release day :P
<humphreybc> "Are you proposing slipping the 10.04 release for this? Do you realize it takes 2 days to respin ISOs, thus making this a 10.05 release?"
<humphreybc> sounds like it's all go
<humphreybc> "A third alternative is that if we get a fix into lucid-updates ASAP, then the "Update this installer" link at the start of the installer can be made active - that was designed for this kind of purpose."
<humphreybc> "@Robbie: for me this is a release blocker so if I was allowed to chose, I would delay the release."
<semioticrobotic> interesting
<humphreybc> "We've decided to respin the 32bit and 64bit CDs of Ubuntu Desktop *ONLY*, as we feel this gives us the widest spread fix possible and allows us to still release today (April 29th). Unfortunately, this means other affected variants, such as Xubuntu, will not have this fix, and we deeply apologize for this."
<semioticrobotic> I'm installing a 32-bit  version on my notebook, and it's my only OS, so I doubt this affects me
<semioticrobotic> but I'm still glad I'm waiting
<semioticrobotic> fewer updates to install
<semioticrobotic> I never released Ubuntu had an "update this installer" feature
<semioticrobotic> seems very handy for situations like this
<humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/fatal-flaw-in-grub-found-at-very-late.html
 * humphreybc is busy writing articles to cover all the news that's flowing in
 * daker is busy fixing bugs 
<nisshh> everyone check your feed readers, about 50 posts have been put up about the manual
 * nisshh is busy answering stuff on the mailing list
<ubuntujenkins> hello guys i am back again
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey dude
<ubuntujenkins> you good nisshh ?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea, you?
<ubuntujenkins> I am not lectures are over. may have fell asleep in the last one :/
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> boring eh?
<ubuntujenkins> were wer being told about the history of fatigue. all we need to know is how to work it out.
<ubuntujenkins> *we were
<nisshh> wow, i would probably fall asleep too!
<daker> we are at 14040 downloads
<nisshh> daker: holy crap! that was quick!
<ubuntujenkins> nice I swear an hour ago it was alot less
<nisshh> anyone know when humphreybc is coming back?
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> anyone know if we are planning on an accessible version of the manual?
<nisshh> for the visually impaired?
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: no that i know of wouldn't the screen reader work well enough? I have not used it
<nisshh> apparently the screen reader is difficult to use with pdfs
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: check the mailing list, it has a post there
<ubuntujenkins> we then thats something to look into.
<ubuntujenkins> o see i hadn't read the list yet. hmm something to work on
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: its difficult according to that persons opinion
<nisshh> need to make sure humphreybc sees that...
<ubuntujenkins> one of us will mention it to him
<humphreybc> daker: how's it going?
<ubuntujenkins> just in time :0
<humphreybc> almost up to 15,000 downloads
<humphreybc> just in time?
<humphreybc> for?
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: am I supposed to be able to see anything stats.ubuntu-manual.org ?
<nisshh> humphreybc: check the mailing list, there is a post there about visually impaired
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: nope
<daker> epkugelmass, http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8
<nisshh> humphreybc: plus a few more too
<daker> screen version
<daker> http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=9
<daker> printe version
<daker> print*
<ubuntujenkins> wow stats pages
<ubuntujenkins> omg these pages are great good work daker
<daker> thanks
 * humphreybc never expected so many downloads
<ubuntujenkins> is there a country that hasn't downloaded it?
<nisshh> has anyone from australia downloaded it?
<nisshh> apart from me...
<daker> AU (Australia) : 415 downloads
<nisshh> daker: cool!
<daker> click => "Traffic location"
<nisshh> nice to know someone else uses ubuntu in au
<daker> then click "Click for more details"
<nisshh> daker: yea, i looked before but couldnt find any AU
<daker> CTRL+F "AU (Australia)"
<ubuntujenkins> 140 countries out of 195 that is so good
<epkugelmass> ubuntujenkins: no hits from dprk
<daker> dprk ?
<epkugelmass> democratic people's republic of korea, daker
<humphreybc> 113 downloads in NZ! woo!
<humphreybc> not that many hits from the UK
<nisshh> humphreybc: au is owning nz with over 400!
<humphreybc> shutup nisshh :P
<nisshh> coming 8th
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> godbyk told me some stats for the email addreses we've been collecting
<humphreybc> for people who want to hear about the manual in their language
<nisshh> huh?
<humphreybc> something like 100+ sign ups to hear more info on the Spanish version
<daker> Woooow
<nisshh> dang!
<humphreybc> the most demanded translations are Spanish (130), Russian (103), Portuguese (15), German (13)
<daker> French too
<ubuntujenkins> daker: whats our google stats thing. how high up google we are
<humphreybc> so... russian translators... deploy!
<nisshh> well, spanish is spoken by ALOT of people around the world
<humphreybc> WE MADE SOFTPEDIA!
<humphreybc> http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Ubuntu-10-04-Manual-Is-Now-Available-140895.shtml
<nisshh> ooooh cool!
<ubuntujenkins> where have we not made :)
<humphreybc> it's a sponsored link on google
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: meh!
<humphreybc> http://www.google.co.nz/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Ubuntu+Manual
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: is there a launchpad team that we can contact about ES and RU?
<humphreybc> at least for me
<ubuntujenkins> do you think we will get more downloads than ubuntu
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: not sure, you wanna find out? :P
<epkugelmass> sure, humphreybc
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: nope, no way
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: how many do they get?
<humphreybc> heh, Luke, Ubuntu gets millions
<nisshh> yep
<humphreybc> there are around 10 million ubuntu users
<daker> ubuntujenkins, our pagerank is 4
<humphreybc> with downloads + upgrades they'd have a shitload
<daker> for google stats should ask godbyk
<humphreybc> "The Ubuntu Manual is a great tool and the quality is on par with what youâd expect. It starts out with a brief overview of Ubuntu and Linux in general, but it quickly gets down to business with a step-by-step installation guide. Everything from choosing the right ISO to partitioning your hard drive is covered.Â "
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks daker page rank is what i ment
<nisshh> one for every "when is lucid final coming out?" thread on UF!
<ubuntujenkins> epkugelmass: I would gess the translation teams for those langauges would be a good place to start
<daker> ubuntujenkins, we have wait til the pagerank get update
<humphreybc> btw anyone who doesn't know, we will be stickied in the absolute beginner UF forum
<ubuntujenkins> any one know how to turn off highlighting for this channel only?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: any idea how often it is done?
<nisshh> humphreybc: saw that when it was first posted thismorning
<daker> ubuntujenkins, nop, may be in the next 2 days
 * ubuntujenkins has manual highlighted in case people ask where to find it in other channels
<humphreybc> daker: have we got html tags and stuff in our site? I googled for "Getting started with Ubuntu" and our site isn't even on the first page
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: the package in the next release of ubuntu can we have a converstion on how you want it to work please
<daker> ubuntujenkins, yes
<daker> h00k, , yes
<daker> f***
<daker> humphreybc, , yes
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ru and https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-es
<humphreybc> what's happening!?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: package?
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: I'll send an email.
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: you said you wanted the manual packaged in the next ubuntu release
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: thankyou :)
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: right
<humphreybc> sort of like your PPA
<humphreybc> but we get it in the Software Center
<humphreybc> easy
<ubuntujenkins> ok how would you like it to deal with different langauges?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> :)
<ubuntujenkins> also do we include it in the ppa or download it after installing the packgae
<nisshh> package for each language?
<humphreybc> probably have a short installer type thing
<humphreybc> nisshh: probably not, no
<humphreybc> i'd say a little program written in python that we stick in the repo
<humphreybc> you install that, it runs and you choose your language/version/whatever
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea your right, that would be 195 packages eventually
<humphreybc> it creates an "Ubuntu Manual" or something-a-rather folder in your home directory
<humphreybc> and it basically runs wget to grab the PDF from our site
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: thats what i was thinking
<humphreybc> easy
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: easy concider me on it
<humphreybc> sweet! you've got 6 months to work on it :P
 * ubuntujenkins goes back to trying to package laytex
<nisshh> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: any gui suggestions welcome
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: i'll do some mockups as soon as i can
<humphreybc> probably on the plane to UDS
<ubuntujenkins> any advanced users who have done packaging before?
<ubuntujenkins> I can package simple stuff but this is hard
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: emails sent to the owners of the RU and ES teams. I'll forward their responses to our mailing list.
<humphreybc> awesome, thanks
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: is the omg ubuntu podcast out?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: nope, we've decided to scrap this release
<humphreybc> we're recording a new one, will be out next tuesday
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough
<humphreybc> we didn't want to release a shit podcast (shit audio quality, the content was great) right on release week with a heap of new readers coming to the site
<ubuntujenkins> makes sense
<popey> if only all podcasters did that :)
<humphreybc> popey: heh
<ubuntujenkins> arrrgh all the packages that we need exists but I can't make the sources to put them in a ppa. currently they are all in different places . ( we haev to make one custom one)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, hi, i took a new branch as u suggested
<ubuntujenkins> hello hemanth
<hemanth> hi ubuntujenkins
<daker> humphreybc, help !!
<daker> daker@ubuntu:~/Projects/ubuntu-manual-website$ bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
<humphreybc> bzr merge
<ubuntujenkins> no daker
<ubuntujenkins> don't do it
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> oh wait
<ubuntujenkins> daker: bzr uncommit
<humphreybc> that's the website branch aint it
<ubuntujenkins> then pull
<humphreybc> do what Luke said :)
<ubuntujenkins> much cleaner way :)
<daker> ah someone has done a push
<ubuntujenkins> I think that may be ilya
<nisshh> HOLY SHIT! has anyone tried out the new midori browser?
<nisshh> its extremely fast at loading pages!!!!
<nisshh> im talking faster than chromium!!
<humphreybc> bopwnope
<daker> nisshh, me
<daker> really faster
<nisshh> daker: is it fast for you too?
<daker> yes
<nisshh> its INSANE!
<daker> use less cpu than FF
<nisshh> even has its own adblocker built in
<nisshh> daker: waaaay less!
<daker> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/
<daker> new look
<humphreybc> how do I get midori?
<humphreybc> oh wait it's on omg
<humphreybc> we posted it :P
<daker> sudo apt-get install midori
<nisshh> humphreybc: try it out!
<humphreybc> installing now
<nisshh> the adblocker works ok too
<humphreybc> woah
<humphreybc> that is fast
<nisshh> it also starts up just as fast as chromium
<nisshh> meh ok the adblocking isnt perfect
<nisshh> humphreybc: good eh?
<humphreybc> how do I bookmark something?
<daker> gmail.com doesn't work (with the 2.0 options)
<daker> tells that i need to upgrade my browser
<daker> humphreybc, http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> check out
<humphreybc> in chrome it's not working :)
<daker> what ?
<humphreybc> and in midori it's overlapping the Features text :)
<nisshh> daker: works great in chromium!
 * humphreybc is screenshotting
<daker> humphreybc, clear the cache
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> d'oh
<nisshh> humphreybc: your right it looks shit in midori
<humphreybc> overlaps the features text in midori
<nisshh> yea
<daker> oki
<nisshh> is it just me or does midoris icon look like safaris but green?
<nisshh> humphreybc: bookmarks work fine in midori 0.2.2
<humphreybc> midori is nice
<humphreybc> but annoying in some ways
<humphreybc> think i'll stick with chrome for now
<nisshh> tell me about it
<nisshh> missing craploads of stuff
<humphreybc> it's fast
<nisshh> im gonna keep an eye on it though
<humphreybc> and the GTK implementation is nice
<humphreybc> but no right click on bookmarks in the bar?
<humphreybc> and the tabs are too thick
<humphreybc> also, it doesn't seem to load favicons
<nisshh> and the dark grey tab bar? yuck!
<humphreybc> but yeah, promising
<humphreybc> maybe default in Ubuntu 10.10 :P
<nisshh> humphreybc: pfffft!
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> your so funny!
<humphreybc> I have my money that Firefox is going
<nisshh> in favour of what?
<humphreybc> Midori or Chromium
<nisshh> do you think?
<nisshh> maybe
<humphreybc> just my hunch
<nisshh> if midori, itll be a while
<humphreybc> and hey, I'm going to UDS so I can push Midori :P
<nisshh> and if chromium its too cutting edge
<nisshh> lol, yea right!
<humphreybc> no reason why Ubuntu can't fork either Chromium or Midori
<humphreybc> Wouldn't take much to patch up Midori somewhat, make it a bit better
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> or to just freeze a stable version of Chromium and rename it
<nisshh> it being simple and all
<vish> humphreybc: expecting a Haka dance from you at the start ;p
<humphreybc> vish: oh god
<humphreybc> hey when do you arrive?
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea gotta see that!
<vish> humphreybc: on the 9th 8am ;)
<humphreybc> vish: nice. Will you be at reception to greet me? I get in at about midday on the 9th
<vish> humphreybc: no idea where i'd be at that time..
<humphreybc> vish: in reception to greet me, do'h!
<vish> pff!
<nisshh> hehe
<vish> ah righty.. its official.. #ubuntu-release-party has gone bonkers! 1100+ folks there o.0
<nisshh> vish: gotta see that!
<vish> hehe humphreybc got kicked ;p
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: got kicked :)
<humphreybc> I got kicked?
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> really?
<ubuntujenkins> yep language
<humphreybc> wholy moly batman?
<humphreybc> who kicked me? :P
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: ikonia
<vish> humphreybc: * ikonia has kicked humphreybc from #ubuntu-release-party (control your language)
<sebsebseb> the ops have been kicking a lot of people though
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> i'm gonna ask him about it
<sebsebseb> mainly when giving out fake links for Lucid
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: did you see my message there?
<sebsebseb> maybe not
<nisshh> sebsebseb: lol!
<sebsebseb> since you got kicked so soon after woulds
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: also isn't it quite early for you?
<humphreybc> lol
<epkugelmass> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/570765
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 570765 in ubiquity "[Lucid] no GRUB menu entry for other operating systems" [Critical,Fix committed]
<humphreybc> I only have 50,000 karma, maybe that's not enough
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: yeah, 3:30am
<epkugelmass> Good job to everyone working hard to fix the issue. The fix was released, the ISO was built and it's even syncing with the mirrors as we speak. I'm disappointed by the release management team though, I have my doubts on the amount of testing that was done on this... just a few hours between the release of Ubiquity 2.2.24 and the decision to put the ISO in the sync pool. Once again it looks like regression testing is bei
<epkugelmass> quoted from the bug
<nisshh> not even midnight for me yet
<epkugelmass> quoted from the bug!
<epkugelmass> it's coming soon
<nisshh> awesome
<sebsebseb> [16:33] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: yep a lot of Ubuntu fan boys here, and your a major one yourself lol
<nisshh> thatll make the windows dopes happy
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: you stayed up I hope, not got up earlyish to find out if Lucid is released?
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: nah, i'll go to bed soon
<humphreybc> I know what Lucid is like, i'm running it lol
<humphreybc> I wrote the book on it?
<humphreybc> :P
<sebsebseb> got to love some of the fan boys though in #ubuntu-release-party
<sebsebseb> I mean the stuff they say
 * ubuntujenkins may be getting some where with these laytex packages
<sebsebseb> well some will be fan girls, anyway
<sebsebseb> here's a good one from earlier :)
<sebsebseb> 16:18] <Traveler> i woke up this morning like it was christmas
<sebsebseb> [16:18] <Traveler> and then santa didnt bring any presents
<nisshh> lol that is good
<daker> humphreybc, http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> i don't see all the fuss i have had it for ages
<humphreybc> heh
<nisshh> same, had it, seen it.
<sebsebseb> nisshh: indeed
<ubuntujenkins> we all had to write on it so we had to use it :-)
<nisshh> woopdefrigging-do!
<humphreybc> that looks good!
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea!
<nisshh> im going to search for funny threads about lucid on UF!
<ubuntujenkins> how many books purchased so far?
<jrib> yep, it's quieter here
<gotunandan> humphreybc: what is the plan for the 10.10 manual ?
<ubuntujenkins> jrib: not as busy as last night but fairly noisy
<ubuntujenkins> gotunandan: http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/announcing-getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-10-quickshot-v1-0-and-the-ubuntu-quickstart-booklet/ is all the palsn for the next release
<nisshh> lol, guy on UF: "I bet they can't get that damn Lynx out it's cage"
<humphreybc> I got kicked again!
<ubuntujenkins> lol what for? I don't have it open
<humphreybc> trying to get people to download the daily build
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: tut tut it does say you will get kicked for that
<nisshh> hehe
<ubuntujenkins> :P
 * humphreybc didn't read that
 * nisshh laughs his face off!
<humphreybc> oh, now i'm banned
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea you get that when your being a pest on another channel...
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<humphreybc> I bet you the guy who banned me doesn't have 50,000 karma
<humphreybc> yeah, that's right
<humphreybc> burn
<nisshh> ooooh ouch!
<humphreybc> hahaha
<nisshh> wanna see something really cool?
<humphreybc> sure
<nisshh> ok hang on
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: jono actsually suggested people got a recent RC and then upgrade to final later on
<sebsebseb> I saw his tweet or whatever, in another channel, last night / this morning
<nisshh> humphreybc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB0JodKgZ0A&feature=related
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> extreme!
<humphreybc> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-10.04-desktop-edition
<humphreybc> the release is pretty close
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I mean RC download updates, and then wait untill final, since it won't change much between the RC and the final
<sebsebseb> however I guess most of the people he has on  twitter or whatever,  are experienced users anyway
<humphreybc> I have no idea why people wait
<humphreybc> it's open source
<sebsebseb> telling the newbies to get a recent one, and then upgrade, is still a bit hrm,  even though it probably won't do any harm.  except that Grub issue may be in there?
<humphreybc> the code is always available in the form of daily builds
<humphreybc> it's not like Apple where it's all secret right up till the time it's released
<nisshh> noobs are scared of RC's and beta's
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah, but things are buggy untill the final
<sebsebseb> or  just before the final anyway
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: not at all for an LTS
<humphreybc> i've been running lucid since alpha and it's been fine
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: altough most deveopment versions work quite well really
<ubuntujenkins> ditto
<ubuntujenkins> to humphreybc
<humphreybc> it's just karmic + other shit during development
<nisshh> iv run lucid since alpha 3 too its been great
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I have been virtual machine testing it since alpha 1.  I did mess up one of those vm's
<sebsebseb> then I did a daily
<humphreybc> it's a rolling release, they don't write the code from scratch each time
 * ubuntujenkins kicks humphreybc (bad langauge) :P
<sebsebseb> ,but I have done all the isues since alpha 1  in a new vm.  all the alpha iso's, the betas, and the rc
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: haha! we're allowed to swear in here :)
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: uhmmm not quite sure about that
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: my channel :)
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah, but
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: why? we could have people of all ages for all we know
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: it follows the Ubuntu rules?
<humphreybc> true
<nisshh> the only bug i got hit by was that gnome-panel one back in beta 1
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: i know everyone in here can handle the odd swear word, we're not babies :)
<sebsebseb> well it's swear
<nisshh> waaaa!
<sebsebseb> warn
<sebsebseb> continue swearing al ot
<sebsebseb> kick
<nisshh> now you cant swear!
<sebsebseb> in #ubuntu
<humphreybc> I wonder if manualbot has an entry for swearing
<sebsebseb> come back and do it soon after the kick, and you will probably get banned
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: somthing to think about as we get bigger
<humphreybc> !language
<manualbot> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<humphreybc> ah ha!
<humphreybc> we should change that
<humphreybc> :P
 * ubuntujenkins is being boring ;)
<sebsebseb> well I think that's how the swearing rules is for Ubuntu,  but I am not an op there, unlike jrib
<humphreybc> sometimes, you know, you just have to swear
<ubuntujenkins> I think its ubuntu conduct not to swear
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: yes which is what I was saying
<nisshh> humphreybc: i agree!
<humphreybc> the worst I say is shit
<humphreybc> which i happen to say quite a lot
 * humphreybc says it on the podcast a lot
 * nisshh knows that!
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: apparantly that one isn't always a swear word in Ubuntu channels
<sebsebseb> or something like that
<humphreybc> I try to avoid dropping the f bomb though
<nisshh> yea, thats a baddy
<gotunandan> humphreybc: which podcast ? the omg!ubuntu! ?
<humphreybc> site's looking great daker
<nisshh> not good to say on irc
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: anyway it has been decided that 10.04, will get released, when you go to bed  :D  so get to bed already so the newbies, can overload the servers
<sebsebseb> heh
<humphreybc> gotunandan: yup, and interviews
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: hahahaha!
<daker> humphreybc, yes
<nisshh> sebsebseb: yea!
<humphreybc> daker: how hard is it to have a rollover when you roll over the star? i can create a rollover image for you if you want
<humphreybc> would only take 2 secs
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: anyway as for development versions well yeah
<sebsebseb> test in development
<sebsebseb> and then by the  time the final is out, already bored of that release
<daker> humphreybc, oki
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: that's what it is like for me
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: haha i'm a bit the same
<humphreybc> i'm excited for maverick now
 * ubuntujenkins can't decide if to upgrade to maverick now
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I was disapointed that had to wait untill it was December 10th for alpha 1 of Lucid, and then it was rather much like Karmic as expected, untill uhmmm alpha 3 or whatever it was
<nisshh> 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....HAPPY DAY AFTER LUCID RELEASE DAY!
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: maverick doesn't exist yet?
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: I am glad I was only vm testing this time round also :)
<humphreybc> :P
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: however that was since I put a distro that I much prefer to Ubuntu these days on here, instead :)
<sebsebseb> for my useage
<ubuntujenkins> ok then when it starts humphreybc
<sebsebseb> I don't want social features,  rubbish top panel Gnome edits,  Ubuntu One, or the music store
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: will probably start next week
<sebsebseb> for my own useage
<humphreybc> I know David has to have his design proposals for Maverick done by tomorrow
<daker> humphreybc, what , what design ?
<humphreybc> daker: proposed new designs for maverick
 * nisshh is off to watch a movie, he will be back later...
<humphreybc> the design team mock up some stuff and bring it along to UDS
<ubuntujenkins> bye nisshh
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: your going to Belgium?
<sebsebseb> for UDS aren't you
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: im not leaving silly!
<daker> humphreybc, for our website ? or for the OS ?
<nisshh> im sitting in the channel!
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: have a good movie then :P
<nisshh> hehe cheers!
<humphreybc> the design team mock up some stuff and bring them along to UDS
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: yep
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: First time to Europe?
<sebsebseb> not that much goes on in Belgium really
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: indeed it is
<sebsebseb> altough the European Commission is there as well
<humphreybc> lots of beer drinking
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: how will you handle the cold summer heh heh
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: well compared to New Zeland it will be
<sebsebseb> I guess
<humphreybc> daker: this should do the trick, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/star-rollover.png
<humphreybc> sebsebseb: it'll be warmer in Brussels than it is where I live in May
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> well yes
<sebsebseb> since winter in New Zeland then
<humphreybc> daker: it should be a slightly lighter colour
<humphreybc> in theory
<ubuntujenkins> 18524 downloads
<ubuntujenkins> 713.83 an hour
<humphreybc> wow
<humphreybc> reckon we'll get to 100,000 by UDS?
<humphreybc> it's in 10 days
<sebsebseb> humphreybc: look forward to another interview on omgubuntu by the way,   also love that Ubuntu fan boy and girl site really.   good blog posts,   and loads of newbie fan boys and such replying :D  as a expereinced Desktop Linux user,  I find some of the comments funny or something.  When they like express their love for Ubuntu :D
<humphreybc> haah
<daker> humphreybc, is there any podcast ?
<humphreybc> daker: not yet
<humphreybc> next week
<humphreybc> ubuntu.com is going to change any minute now
<humphreybc> btw
 * humphreybc preps the omgubuntu post
<daker> humphreybc, could you make it as one image (the star and hover)
<humphreybc> how can I make it one image?
<daker> both in one image
<daker> one under one
<humphreybc> ?
<humphreybc> in a png?
<humphreybc> like overlapping?
<daker> no no forgot about it
<daker> :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> sorry
 * humphreybc is just waiting now
<hemanth> humphreybc, omgubuntu is using which cms?
<humphreybc> hemanth: blogger
<hemanth> humphreybc, wow! ok
 * hemanth now noticed the blogger icon 
 * humphreybc loves knowing people inside Canonical
<vish> humphreybc: its actually more fun keeping that to yourself ;)
<vish> rather meant themselves*
<humphreybc> vish: :P
<hemanth> people search on people.canonical ? ;)
<humphreybc> hemanth: hahaha, not quite
<hemanth> humphreybc, RE on ~[a-z]+ ;)
<humphreybc> maybe when i get my IRC ubuntu member cloak I won't get banned all the time
<daker> hhh
<hemanth> :)
<daker> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<humphreybc> looks good daker
<ChrisWoollard> Evening.
<humphreybc> Hey Chris
<ChrisWoollard> How well has the manual been received?
<humphreybc> only a few downloads
<humphreybc> 20,000 in fact
<humphreybc> you know, just a few
<ChrisWoollard> That is great
<humphreybc> ha ha!
<humphreybc> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-release-party
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can we get project cloaks
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: ha! i don't think so
<ubuntujenkins> you can do them freenode says so
<humphreybc> really?
<ubuntujenkins> I read it somewhere
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gcrequest
<humphreybc> cough
<humphreybc> http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/
<ChrisWoollard> Is the manual on the iso?
<humphreybc> nope
<ChrisWoollard> that channel is really busy
<humphreybc> indeed
<humphreybc> full of people asking "is it ready yet?" and posting spam
<epkugelmass> can someone help me find out why i'm +b from #ubuntu-release-party?
<humphreybc> epkugelmass: banned?
<epkugelmass> mhm
<humphreybc> probably coz you linked to the download before it's been announced?
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> meh
<ChrisWoollard> I believe the channal has also been muted
<epkugelmass> humphreybc: didn't do anything. i logged out, and when i logged back in i was banned
<IlyaHaykinson> ooh, what do you know! lucid is out ;)
<IlyaHaykinson> hm, i don't think i like the "Buy the book!" star. Maybe "Get a printed copy!" star would be better -- the star right now makes it seem like the only version is the one you have to buy.
<epkugelmass> agrred
<epkugelmass> agreed*
<humphreybc> FFS
<daker> http://www.ubuntu.com/
<daker> lucid is Out
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I don't have humphreybc's design skills but if i send you some text/content for the quickshot website in a few days (3-5) will that be ok for you to make a start?
<humphreybc> are we making a dedicated quickshot website
<humphreybc> ?
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot.ubuntu-manaul.org
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I may send you the content to proof read. I would like to put some devloper info on there about the project
<daker> ubuntujenkins, sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker, i will get thinking on what pages i would like
<humphreybc> kay
<humphreybc> i'll do a tonne of design on the plane to UDS
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<daker> humphreybc, http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> we have a hit from VA (Holy See (Vatican City State)) :
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<humphreybc> daker:
<humphreybc> we should stick ads on the site :P
<ubuntujenkins> daker: why are there Backlinks 427 ?
<ubuntujenkins> sorry read it as blank not back
<daker> 19270 downloads
<ubuntujenkins> I make it 20873 using both stats pages
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> "Ubuntu 10" is sitting at number four in twitter trends
<dutchie> yay, released
 * humphreybc is going to bed
<ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie
<hemanth> o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello again hemanth
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ha ha was waving humphreybc as he said he is going to bed
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, did a  sudo update-manager -d ?
<humphreybc> if we don't have 30,000 downloads of the manual by the time I wake up i'm gonna be so annoyed :P
<humphreybc> the weird thing is that the downloads don't seem to be dropping off
<humphreybc> they're actually INCREASING in rate
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: nope I just keep updating
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: i thought they were droping a bit
<humphreybc> not really
<humphreybc> http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8
<humphreybc> look at the graph
<hemanth> humphreybc, you will have a sleepless night :0)
<ubuntujenkins> on it now
<ubuntujenkins> wow it is increasing
<humphreybc> we're only halfway through this hour and the bar for the hour is almost up to the max for last hour
<ubuntujenkins> more people are posting it etc
<humphreybc> yeah
<dutchie> christ, 20,000 downloads
<humphreybc> dutchie: uh, yeah
<humphreybc> crazy huh
<humphreybc> i had no idea it'd be this much
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: the server crashed in 2 minutes of release
<ubuntujenkins> well "timed out"
<dutchie> impressive
<dutchie> or not ;0
<ubuntujenkins> we had to mirror it like crazy
<humphreybc> it was a CPU load thing
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> dutchie: where were you anyway!?
<dutchie> in bed :(
<ubuntujenkins> it was crazy \o/
<daker> yeah
<ubuntujenkins> I only got 5 hours sleep before this morning
<daker> where are you the bug form ?
<daker> dutchie,
<humphreybc> 1 million downloads by the end of may?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: hmm we will have to see
<daker> yes
<dutchie> daker: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/bug-form
<humphreybc> dutchie: is the bug form finished already?
<ChrisWoollard> I wonder how many hits you would get if you got a link on www.ubuntu.com
<humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: probably quite a few, that's the aim for Maverick
<humphreybc> we're apparently going to become a "top level" project if we prove ourselves after this release
<dutchie> humphreybc: no
<dutchie> humphreybc: not far off
<humphreybc> dutchie: lol, if it was i would be very impressed
<humphreybc> when can we get it on the site, dutchie, daker?
<dutchie> when it's ready
<dutchie> week? 2 weeks?
<humphreybc> okay good
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: what do we have to do to "prove" our selves.
<humphreybc> one week would be good :)
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: prove that we can put out more than one release :P
<humphreybc> a lot of projects do one release then die
<ubuntujenkins> are i see
<ChrisWoollard> does that mean the 2nd edition
<humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: yeah, probably
<humphreybc> we'll hype that up too
<ChrisWoollard> How long do you think it will be before the alternate languages will be available?
<ChrisWoollard> Obviously the ones finished
<dutchie> stupid lack of battery
<humphreybc> We're aiming for the finished ones to be out in a couple of weeks, so English UK, Galician, German and possibly Spanish
<dutchie> may disappear in 45 minutes or so
<humphreybc> all depends whether we can get some editors from the translating teams
<humphreybc> ChrisWoollard: would you like to work with godbyk to edit the UK manual?
<ChrisWoollard> I would be happy to.
<humphreybc> okay, when he wakes up, have a chat to him
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> hopefully we'll get some translations out soon, coz that's one of our biggest selling points
<ChrisWoollard> I just don't know how to do that yet.
<ChrisWoollard> That is also an amazing achievment t have it available in multiple languages
<humphreybc> coz it's mainly in english, he'll probably do all the latex formatting and just clarify any spellings with you
<humphreybc> (i say "mainly" i mean all)
<humphreybc> coz godbyk's american
<humphreybc> yeah, we need more translators tho!
<humphreybc> :D
<humphreybc> http://www.engadget.com/
<ChrisWoollard> I am fairly sure the spellings are pretty much ok.
<humphreybc> great
<humphreybc> you won't have much to do then :P
<ChrisWoollard> I already did a search for everything i could think of
<humphreybc> awesome
<ChrisWoollard> but will still help with whatever
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> i'm off to bed
<humphreybc> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc
<sebsebseb> heh I am trying to get a not so technical woman to download the Ubuntu Manual
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: ping
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> where/what is manaulbot run on? concidering a quickshot bot
<dutchie> supybot running on my vps
<dutchie> !bot
<manualbot> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-manual's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<dutchie> !clone
<manualbot> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type Â« aptitude  --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages Â», move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type Â« sudo xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < my-packages ; sudo aptitude install Â» - See also !automate
<dutchie> !botclone
<manualbot> Ubottu uses supybot, which is available in the main !repositories, with additional plugins that are available at http://ubottu.com/clone.html
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie I had seen the bit pages. just need to think of factoids.
<ubuntujenkins> *bot
<andrew> [topic probably should be updated re: meeting]
<ubuntujenkins> I think i will tackle it after i have packaged lytex
<ubuntujenkins> !topic
<manualbot> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<ubuntujenkins> hmm how do i see the topic?
<andrew> ubuntujenkins: /t or /topic
<ubuntujenkins> thanks andrew I leave irc on for so long
* dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Lucid Edition 1 released! Go and download/buy it | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<dutchie> happy?
<godbyk> I'm alive again.
<godbyk> How are things going?
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk over 20000 downloads
<daker> 20498 hits
<godbyk> awesome!
<daker> http://www.ubuntu-manual.org
<daker> godbyk, see lulu star
<godbyk> daker: nice!  and you miraculously managed to get it placed just where humpreybc wanted it.  I'm impressed!
<daker> :)
<godbyk> It looks like there have been 16 copies of the book sold now.
<daker> WWwwwOWWw
<ubuntujenkins> wow daker the star looks good there
<hemanth> godbyk, got response for tex devl, he says its ok if it skips it must find an alternative by itself, but that doesn't seem to happen, giving it another shot and the ppa i found in LP has no tlmgr, so the script in pkgs bombs
<godbyk> hemanth: okay, let me know how it goes.
<godbyk> hemanth: yeah, they don't package tlmgr in the repositories because they want you to install everything via their repository.
<hemanth> godbyk, okies, now its 1507/2071
<ubuntujenkins> I am working on the packaging i need to talk to godbyk on it today i have also mailed the list
<godbyk> hemanth: if everything we needed were available in the repository (and installed on your system), the install-pkgs.sh script will tell you that everything's there and you're good to go.
<hemanth> Well, the Debian packages of TeXLive do not ship tlmgr.
<ubuntujenkins> I know
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you might be interested in the tldistro list I saw yesterday: http://tug.org/texlive/lists.html
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: thanks i have mailed the debian devs for the tex packages
<hemanth> lucid has Package: texlive (2009-7) but not tlmgr
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: your install script can we go through what it does? I think i know.
<godbyk> I think I'm going to have to give up on replying to OMG commenters. :)
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure!
<daker> ubuntujenkins, ImportError: No module named hivelib
<daker> how do i install hivelib
<daker> ?
<daker> godbyk, no idea ?
<godbyk> sorry.. on the phone.
<ubuntujenkins> sorry daker also on the phone will look soon
<daker> hhhh
<c7p> hello, how many downloads do we have till now?
<ubuntujenkins> 22000
<c7p> wow
<c7p> plus the 3,000 of the softpedia (?)
<daker> c7p, http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8
<daker> => Traffic source
<c7p> oh nice, ty
<c7p> ah, daker, I corrected some very bad translations, could you update the greek translations on site?
<daker> sure
<c7p> ok thank you :)
 * ubuntujenkins is off the phone
 * godbyk is too
<godbyk> daker: what is it that requires hivelib?  something for the website, I presume?
<daker> no :D
<daker> forgot it
<ubuntujenkins> i can't find much on it's appears to be a weird package
<ubuntujenkins> you get it from a website
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: pluging the manual in #ubuntu :-) i like it
<ubuntujenkins> !manual
<manualbot> Factoid 'manual' not found
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: !!!
<daker> ubuntujenkins, https://launchpad.net/beeseek-bot
<dutchie> uhoh
<dutchie> teach it one
<ubuntujenkins> i don't know how
<ubuntujenkins> please tell me i would like to know this is the #ubuntu one
<ubuntujenkins> The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> not that we need it here but its cool does #ubuntu-uk have it?
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> I've forgotten how to operate the bot
<popey> heh
<popey> loser! :)
<ubuntujenkins> ubuntu-uk has it
<ubuntujenkins> yey!!
<c7p> doh
<c7p> the type:comment string, are marked for removal ?
<c7p> strings*
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: heh I tried to
<sebsebseb> and yes I will
<godbyk> c7p: If that refers to text inside the \begin{comment} ... \end{comment} lines, then you can leave that text as-is.  It doesn't actually appear in the manual.  It's just an internal comment.
<dutchie> !manual
<manualbot> The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
 * ubuntujenkins needs to work out how to make highlighting of the word "manual" work for all but this channel
<c7p> godbyk, for example check this string https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/458/+translate
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie
 * ubuntujenkins thinks of a quickshot one but doesn't have a link to use
<godbyk> c7p: Yes, you can ignore that.
<godbyk> I haven't had time to figure out how to convince po4a to leave the comments out of the translation template yet.
<c7p> ah ok
<daker> godbyk, can you update the website pot file in the manual branch ?
<daker> put it in daker-test/includes/languages
<daker> pull it form lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<godbyk> daker: sure. give me just a couple minutes
<daker> take your time
<daker> c7p, the string will be up n few minutes
<daker> the strings*
<c7p> very nice :)
<godbyk> If anyone wants to order a copy of the book on Lulu, you can try the coupon code FREESHIP for free shipping (at least in the US for their normal US mail rate).
 * daker doesn't have a credit card :s
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: got the word manual on highlight or something? How did you know?
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: I do haev the word manaul on highlight i gives a lot off hits from this channel which can be anoying
<sebsebseb> heh
<sebsebseb> yeah I done it before
<sebsebseb> put words on high light
<sebsebseb> and then in Ubuntu...
<sebsebseb> and the amount of high lights I got was annoying
<ubuntujenkins> I put Ubuntu-manaul on but got loads fro "ubuntu"
<godbyk> daker: You can also use paypal if that's available to you.
<daker> i don't think so :s
<godbyk> daker: I've updated the pot file for you.
<godbyk> brb.. going to find something to eat.
<daker> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> I think FREESHIP makes the manaul 5.17 in the uk
<godbyk> Nice.  It saved me $4 in shipping fees.
<godbyk> So my total cost was < $10 for the shipped manual.
<c7p> night all
<ubuntujenkins> yep Â£5.17 fo the uk with that code book: Â£2.18 shipping Â£2.99 great price
 * ubuntujenkins is off to bed night all o/
<dutchie> night
<godbyk> 21,000 downloads in the first 24 hours.  Not bad, guys.
<popey> good work
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-30
<godbyk> Thanks, popey.  I'm looking forward to the feedback we'll be receiving over the next few weeks.
<godbyk> As people get a chance to start reading through it more instead of just a cursory flip-through the pages.
<popey> :)
<semioticrobotic> anyone following the conversation I've been having with Martin over Bug#571524?
<semioticrobotic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/571524
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 571524 in ubuntu-manual "Open Source definition is inaccurate" [High,Confirmed]
<hemanth> godbyk, install-tl said Welcome to TeX Live! But  install-pkgs.sh says No version of TeX Live was detected!
<godbyk> hemanth: Did you enable the option to create symlinks?
<hemanth> godbyk, nope! just had did ./, it took a long time and said done atlast
<hemanth> godbyk, need to set the path in my .profile?
<godbyk> hemanth: there was a menu option to create the symlinks.  if you didn't turn that on, then tlmgr won't be in your path and the install-pkgs.sh script won't find it.
<godbyk> you can either set the path, or run tlmgr manually to create the symlinks
<godbyk> I can walk you through either.
<hemanth> godbyk, i have set the path as export PATH="/usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux":$PATH
<godbyk> hemanth: 'kay. that should work okay.
<hemanth> godbyk, sourced my .profile same thinge again
<godbyk> type 'which tlmgr'
<godbyk> if that fails to return the proper path, 'echo $PATH' and double-check it.
<hemanth> godbyk, its in the path /usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux/tlmgr
<hemanth> godbyk, which returns me the proper path
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> And install-pkgs.sh is saying "No version of TeX Live was detected.'?
<hemanth> godbyk, i opened a fresh terminal and explicitly set the path, now its working!
<hemanth> godbyk, my bash version 4.0.0(1)-release.. could that be the issue?
<godbyk> Ah, that's good then.
<godbyk> I don't think so.
<godbyk> You might add the PATH stuff to your .bashrc file, though.
<godbyk> I can never remember when the .profile, .bash_profile, .bashrc, etc. are called.
<godbyk> I know some are for interactive shells only and others are always called.
<hemanth> godbyk, okies, .profile calls .bashrc in my case
<godbyk> 'kay.
<hemanth> its installing, which tlmgr > /dev/null && TEXLIVE_VERSION="2009" is the key in the script right?
<godbyk> hemanth: yep.
<godbyk> hemanth: how's it going?
<hemanth> godbyk, sorry for the delay, installation went well, compilation says : ! LaTeX Error: File `xifthen.sty' not found.
<godbyk> no problem.
<godbyk> hmm.. did I forget to add that to the install-pkgs.sh script?
<godbyk> try 'sudo tlmgr install xifthen'
<hemanth> had to goto the path manually and executed the command, installing xifthen
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> is 'tlmgr' not in the PATH yet?
<hemanth> tlmgr said package repository
<hemanth> which tlmgr is giving me the path, tlmgr gives command not found! very strange, so went th path and installed xifthen, still the same issue while compilation,line 17 ubuntu-manula.cls
<godbyk> Does 'kpsewhich xifthen' return anything?
<hemanth> nope
<hemanth> i'm using texmaker and compiling main.tex
<hemanth> same
<godbyk> Hmm.. I haven't tried compiling it with texmaker yet.
<godbyk> Make sure it's using XeLaTeX for the engine.
<godbyk> If kpsewhich isn't returning anything, then TeX can't find the file.
<godbyk> Run 'sudo texhash'
<godbyk> that'll reindex the tex files.
<hemanth> texhash updated the files
<hemanth> godbyk, need to go out will be back soon, everything is ready there must a same issue as you mentioned see you soon, thanks for helping
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> see ya
<hemanth> godbyk, there?
<godbyk> hemanth: yep!
<hemanth> godbyk, what next?
<godbyk> where'd we leave off?
<hemanth> "Make sure it's using XeLaTeX for the engine."
<godbyk> Ah, okay.
<godbyk> Are you getting an error message when you compile?
<godbyk> Or are we still having problems when you run install-pkgs.sh?
<hemanth> pkgs where install, so was texlive 2009, unable to compile cos xifthen was missing installed it yet the same issue
<hemanth> ! LaTeX Error: File `xifthen.sty' not found.
<manualbot> hemanth: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> did you run 'sudo texhash'?
<hemanth> yup
<godbyk> does 'kpsewhich xifthen' return anything?
<hemanth> no!
<godbyk> Hmm..
<godbyk> ah.. try 'kpsewhich xifthen.sty'
<godbyk> (I thought it appended .sty automatically, but perhaps not.)
<hemanth> /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf-dist/tex/latex/xifthen/xifthen.sty
<godbyk> perfect
<godbyk> let's try compiling from the command prompt first, then.
<godbyk> open a terminal and go to the directory containing the ubuntu-manual files.
<godbyk> then run 'make'
<hemanth> running
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> be right back.. need some water
<hemanth> /bin/bash: xelatex: command not found, okies even me :)
<hemanth> running after export PATH="/usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux":$PATH, again the path is not been set, i have put them both in .bashrc and .profile
<hemanth> godbyk, Success!  Wrote 166 pages :)
<godbyk> okay, I'm back now.
<godbyk> great!
<godbyk> so we know that it compiles okay there.
<godbyk> you may have to log out and back in to make sure the path is set appropriately in the gui app.
<godbyk> (after setting PATH in .bashrc)
<hemanth> godbyk, just spawning new shell or sourcing .bashrc must do it right?
<godbyk> If you run the GUI app from the terminal, yes.
<godbyk> If you're clicking on it through the Application menu, it will use the same environment as you had when you logged in.
<hemanth> o ya got it, i'm getting few control options like make clean, make pdf on the nautilus menu
<godbyk> oh, great, so you have ground control installed then.
<hemanth> yup :), complied but main.pdf has only one blank page
<godbyk> Hmm.. that's odd.
<godbyk> which button did you click?
<hemanth> make pdf
<hemanth> make was done from the terminal
<godbyk> let me give it a shot.
<hemanth> :)
<godbyk> for me, it's giving an error because it can't find the title page.
<hemanth> o!
<godbyk> ah, one moment.
<godbyk> I think I'm in an old directory.
<godbyk> (too many branches!)
<hemanth> i just have a quick restart ok?
<godbyk> ok, now it's compiling more.
<godbyk> sure
<hemanth> i will be back in a wink ;)
<godbyk> no problem
<godbyk> I'm just installing 10.04 on my laptop.
<godbyk> Figured I may as well test out our installation instructions while I'm at it. :)
<godbyk> hemanth: When I used the Make PDF button in the up-to-date lucid-e1 folder, it worked okay for me.
<hemanth> godbyk, me also in lucid, from terminal its make && make pdf ?
<godbyk> hemanth: 'make' by itself will generate the pdf.
<hemanth> me lucid-2e
<godbyk> aha.
<godbyk> I haven't tried the 2e branch for a bit.
<godbyk> Let me give that a go.
<godbyk> you may want to refrain from hacking on lucid-2e too much right now as I think I'm going to wipe it out so we can start fresh.
<godbyk> (I'll copy over only the .tex files we need for the manual. that'll keep the branch a lot smaller in size.)
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<hemanth> okies, this texmaker's conf had to changed to increase the buffer size
<godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, morning :)
<godbyk> hemanth: the lucid-e2 branch compiled okay for me, too.
<hemanth> godbyk, :) phew got the manual compiled
<godbyk> cool
<hemanth> which would be the tex editor you would suggest me, as of now me on texmaker
<godbyk> hemanth: I typically use vim, so I'm probably not the guy to ask. :)
<godbyk> You can use your favorite text editor, if you like.
<godbyk> We're not using too many standard LaTeX commands, so most of the tex editors will be of limited help, I think.
<hemanth> godbyk, me compliant with vim also, so is there any specific plugin you would suggest for it
<godbyk> hemanth: There's a huge set of plugins called the LaTeX-Suite for vim.
<godbyk> They're not too bad, though they get in my way sometimes.
<hemanth> godbyk, ok checking it out, it would fun with those plugins giving tab compilations and drop downs in vim :)
<godbyk> Otherwise, we're really just using a limited set of commands right now.  I hope they're not too difficult for people to keep in their heads. :)
<ubuntujenkins> I got a reply from the mailing list. I made a few mistakes. Thought i had all bases covered. :/ any way any idea what a dak is ? "if you use the
<ubuntujenkins> same upstream sources, otherwise the Ubuntu equivalent of dak will cry out."
<godbyk> Yeah, there's not so much of that, I'm afraid.
<godbyk> there is a vim-latex-suite package, I think.. (if you're using the ubuntu-packaged vim)
<hemanth> godbyk, doing sudo apt-get install vim-latexsuite
 * IlyaHaykinson waves
<ubuntujenkins> hello IlyaHaykinson
 * godbyk waves back at IlyaHaykinson
<godbyk> Hey, vish!
<IlyaHaykinson> my netbook ran out of power during the lucid upgrade
<godbyk> oops
<IlyaHaykinson> magically, when i plugged it in and booted, it was ok.
<IlyaHaykinson> i guess i was half-way through the last (cleanup) stage
<godbyk> I'm installing Lucid on my laptop.  Following the instructions in our manual.
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<IlyaHaykinson> so it was just a matter of "apt-get autoremove"
<IlyaHaykinson> but yeah. this is what i get for doing an upgrade at work, and not bringing the cord
<IlyaHaykinson> brb
 * ubuntujenkins is disliking texlive packages the more i look
<vish> godbyk: hi..
<vish> godbyk: ga
<godbyk> vish: having problems?
<godbyk> Seems like the installation instructions are pretty decent.
<vish> hehe , entered "enter" too soon
<godbyk> They added LTS to the install button, though.
<godbyk> heh
<vish>  been using the lts since ~5months ;p
<vish> godbyk: gah! ayatana mailing list has too many mails , it have ~200 unread mails :s
<godbyk> vish: I know!  I end up just skimming most of them and never join the discussion.
<godbyk> typically the discussion ends up being a free-for-all, anyway.
<godbyk> everyone's offering their own opinion on matters, but none of it's backed up by and real research.
<vish> exactly!
<vish> even the design team is just pulling a rabbit!
<godbyk> yeah, I'm a bit disappointed about all that.
<godbyk> hopefully we'll get something better going soon.
<ubuntujenkins> what did the desgin team have a dig on?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: various things, I s'pose. This is one of the more recent threads on the mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01569.html
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<vish> hrm , need to add filter for humphrey's mails > trash , some of the mails are "+1" "nice post" or similar ;p
<vish> are just*
<vish> heh! no humphrey.. no fun teasing  :(
<ubuntujenkins> Can't locate tpm2debcommon.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ./all/debian /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at tpm2deb-source.pl line 58.
<ubuntujenkins> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at tpm2deb-source.pl line 58.
<ubuntujenkins> am i right in thinking that it is looking for a file called tmp2debcommon.pm in a directory that is above the one I am in called "all" and then in the "debian" directory
<ubuntujenkins> because if it is that silly file exists
<godbyk> Well, it's saying it can't find tpm2debcommon.pm in any of the directories listed (in @INC)
<godbyk> that dir must not be in the @INC list then.
<ubuntujenkins> this script is not the best, I am having to save alsorst of files in places so that it can find them
<godbyk> vish: a lot of the things that get argued about on the ayatana list (and so many other places) could be resolved by collecting actual data.
<godbyk> vish: have you seen Mozilla's Test Pilot plugin for Firefox?
<vish> oh whats des it do?
<godbyk> vish: I'd like the exact same sort of thing but for the whole OS.
<vish> does*
<godbyk> It collects usage data.
<godbyk> hold on and I'll get the link
<godbyk> https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
<godbyk> Some of the studies that have been done look at how tabs are used: how many tabs people have open, what they do when the open a new tab, etc.
<vish> neat ty
<godbyk> Another study looked at which menu items are used more frequently and whether they're accessed via mouse, keyboard, toolbar button, etc.
<godbyk> The recent discussion about workspaces raises a lot of questions that we can answer by collecting data:
<godbyk> how many workspaces do people have?
<godbyk> how many workspaces do they *use*?
<godbyk> how many windows per workspace.
<godbyk> how do they switch between workspaces?
<godbyk> etc. etc.
<godbyk> those are questions that we can actually answer.
<godbyk> run a small program that sits in the background and monitors that sort of usage.
<godbyk> and it can report that data back to us.
<vish> yeah.. i think charline must be having a similar list of sorts , we need to do that before disabling or improve a featuer
<vish> feature*
<godbyk> have the users fill out a quick server so we can see how advanced users differ from newbies.
<godbyk> exactly.
<godbyk> see how often a particular feature is actually used in practice.
<godbyk> then you can tell all those people who are whining on the bug report that, 'hey, look, only this tiny percentage of people use the feature and it's causes problems A, B, and C for everyone else.'
<godbyk> then you've got some ground to stand on.
<vish> we are just trying to put ourselves in a hypothetical user's shoe and to expect that our own biases dont effect the choices would be too much , no one is so Gandhian ;p
<godbyk> heh.. it's not even a matter of being Gandhian, it's just that we (as humans) suck at knowing *why* we do the things we do and why we make the decisions we make.
<godbyk> it's been demonstrated repeatedly in psych experiments.
<godbyk> A lot of the interminable debates that take place could be put to rest if only we had a bit of data.
<godbyk> Then you can show demonstrably that one side is 'more right' than the other. :)
<vish> the human "Id" is such a complex thing .. we have so many defense mechanisms to even not realize why we do them.. not an easy task for the conscious mind ;)
<godbyk> Doing full-blown usability studies by bringing people into a lab and sitting them in front of a computer take a lot of time, can be rather expensive, and can have ecological validity issues.
<godbyk> Recording data from actual people using the actual software in their actual home/workplace would work around those issues.
<godbyk> Yeah, we humans are quite good at rationalizing are 'decisions'.
<vish> i'm sometimes quite amazed by how much data mpt collects by reading comments/rants!
<godbyk> Canonical may already do this, but they should look at those support requests they get, too.  Each time they get a support call, see if it's caused by a usability problem or if there's some way to improve the software to avoid those calls in the future.
<IlyaHaykinson> fwiw, i think we'll end up doing a full-blown usability study by bringing people into a lab :)
<IlyaHaykinson> for the manual
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: awesome
<IlyaHaykinson> i had a conversation with my friend, Hilary, who's had a lot of experience running focus groups
<godbyk> There are definitely benefits to that, depending on the type of study.
<IlyaHaykinson> hopefully she'll join the manual team and start working through some of these issues
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Excellent!
<IlyaHaykinson> alright. and now it's time for me to go to sleep. l8r ppl.
<godbyk> For our web-based version of the manual, I'd like to have (at each paragraph or subsection) a place where someone can say, 'this was helpful' or 'this is wrong/buggy' or 'this was not what I was looking for', etc. so we can use that feedback to improve the content and organization of the manual.
<godbyk> see ya, IlyaHaykinson
<vish> 'this was confusing to understand , had to read twice'
<godbyk> exactly.
<godbyk> 'this was a 7 out of 10 on the clarity scale'
<godbyk> my basic thinking in how the web-based manual should work is that the site will be pretty much just text and screenshots on a solid color background.  no other graphics or anything to get in the way.
<vish> windows/google/and a few others do that , i often end up not selecting the options.. but sometimes do ;)
<godbyk> then when your mouse hovers over a paragraph, to the left of the paragraph a small set of links/widgets will appear (fairly transparent at first). if you move your mouse toward them, they'll become more solid.
<godbyk> you can click on the 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down' button, the 'leave feeback' link (which shows a text area for short feedback notes), etc.
<godbyk> but very minimalistic and out-of-the-way.
<vish> yeah
<godbyk> I usually don't answer them, but if I can a simple yes/no to 'was this helpful?' or 'did this answer your question?' then I'll do that.
<godbyk> and any feedback we get is helpful.
<godbyk> each of the paragraphs should have an anchor, as well, so people in forums and on mailing lists can link directly to the paragraph that answers the perrson's question.
<vish> godbyk: one issue though.. how through is the manual gonna get?
<godbyk> vish: I haven't any idea.
<vish> godbyk: also it doesnt seem humphrey has replied to Phil's concern , he seems to have forgotten
<godbyk> It seems that people keep wanting to extend it to add many more advanced topics.
<godbyk> Yeah, I was initially going to reply, but then I figured I'd let humpreybc handle it.
<vish> godbyk: exactly , at which rate we are aiming to replace the docs
<vish> one cause for concern is that , whenever humphrey mentions doc and manual collaboration  , there is no reply from the docs team
<godbyk> vish: right.  I haven't had time to explore the doc team's stuff thoroughly yet, but from the little poking around I've done, I'm not at all impressed with its organization.
<vish> godbyk: surely no one is impressed ;)
<godbyk> I think everyone was waiting until after the release of lucid to get into it.
<ubuntujenkins> can anyone spot where the extra / is in this http://paste.ubuntu.com/425079/ file that the error refers to "TLPDB.pm" pm2deb-source.pl: open(/media/Back-Up/tmp/texlive2009/trunk//tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb) failed: No such file or directory at all/debian/TeXLive/TLPDB.pm line 281.
<godbyk> I know the docs team, ubuntu manual team, and the learning team are all going to be discussing collaboration.
<vish> godbyk: yeah , but none of the real core docs team will be at the uds :s
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the extra slash shouldn't matter.
<godbyk> vish: I know.
<vish> gah! where is humphrey!
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: o ok I didn't know that
<godbyk> Not sure where he's at today.  Haven't seen him in yet.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: at least, I've never seen it make any difference.  there's a first time for everything, though.:)
<godbyk> vish: When you pull up the system docs (System > Help and Support), does it seem terribly helpful?
<vish> godbyk: nope.. it can be improved immensely
<godbyk> some of my complaints are about yelp (the help browser), but others are about the docs themselves -- whether they're gnome docs or ubuntu docs, I dunno, but it's not that good.
<vish> godbyk: i suggested a lot of improvements earlier ~a yr ago , and somehow i came off as being a jerk ;)
 * ubuntujenkins man so close I just need a .changes file
<ubuntujenkins> !universe
<manualbot> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories
<fenre> Does anyone know the current number of downloads?
<ubuntujenkins> fenre: let me check
<ubuntujenkins> fenre: http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8 and http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=9
<fenre> Very nice. Thanks!
<fenre> What is the difference between the two? Besides the numbers in the stats :P
<ubuntujenkins> the printed one is with black headings an a extra page for the cover. This is the version on lulu
<fenre> ok, so id=8 is the standard one, and id=9 is the print edition?
<fenre> the two stats-pages seems to be identical you see..
<c7p> hey guys the greek translation of the site need to be updated on ubuntu-manual.org, cause there are serious mistakes on the old pot file that is load on our website
<nisshh> c7p: either daker or godbyk need to know that
<c7p> ok i will send an e-mail later :)
<c7p> g2g cu all
<ubuntujenkins> fenre: yes id=8 is the standard one, and id=9 is the print edition?
<Ddorda> where can I translate the ubuntu-manual site?
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: in what lanaguage?
<Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: Hebrew
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: I think they have been moved to here https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
<Ddorda> what's the differences between ubuntu-manual-website & ubu-man-website-translations
<Ddorda> ?
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: can you link me the two please.
<Ddorda> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+pots/ubu-man-website-translations/he/+translate
<Ddorda> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-manual-website/he/+translate
<ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: no clue i am afraid we will have to ask daker or godbyk
<godbyk-android> there's no difference.
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: well, one of them has 6 more strings
<godbyk-android> the -website one is the original, but we copy it to -manual because the translators are generally unaware of the -website project
<Ddorda> godbyk-android: okay, thanks
 * humphreybc just did the worst american accent ever
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: why?
<humphreybc> OMG! Ubuntu! podcast :P
<ubuntujenkins> lol, whats wrong with your normal voice?
<humphreybc> it's just for a short bit
<humphreybc> you'l lsee
<humphreybc> you'll see *
<humphreybc> i can't give it away :P
<ubuntujenkins> no i will not see, but i might hear :)
<humphreybc> yeah yeah
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I am having some success on a ppa for latex, but there is a 3 day build wait. The anoying thing is the machines that are used to build packages for the disro are sat doing nothing.
<humphreybc> hmm
<ubuntujenkins> not all of them have the right processor, six days fro 64bit stuff
<humphreybc> hm
<ubuntujenkins> I just hope none of the builds fail. On another topic kevin and i had a good convo about the manual package
<humphreybc> I'll see if we can improve that for the future builds
<humphreybc> oh yea?
<ubuntujenkins> we think we know how we want it to work we duiscussed it on skype. The package that goes in universe will not have a physical package. It will be a small gui and the use of wget. getting the current langauge manaul if it exists.
<ubuntujenkins> other wise suggest they help translate and ask them to choose from the avalible list
<humphreybc> what's your skype, Luke?
<humphreybc> for the future
<humphreybc> I'll have a chat with you next week about the UI design, we can bring in Kevin too on a conference call
<ubuntujenkins> yep sounds good to me
<humphreybc> then i'll get onto mockups and stuff on the plane
<humphreybc> also mockups for the next quickshot
<humphreybc> I also need mockups for our html help site
<humphreybc> hopefully i'll be able to pick up an aussie power adapter in sydney
<ubuntujenkins> yea I haven't figured out how to make quickshot work. yet lots of exams and tackling this ppa to hopefully avoid i can't get it to work questions.
<humphreybc> oh wait!
<humphreybc> Aussie ones are the same as NZ
<humphreybc> thank the lord!
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
 * humphreybc wonders what belgium uses
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know
<humphreybc> ohhh
<humphreybc> one of them things
<humphreybc> i see
<humphreybc> UK plugs are retarded
<ubuntujenkins> no they are not :P
<humphreybc> they're hooooooooooooge!
<ubuntujenkins> why what are new zeland ones like?
<humphreybc> not that huge!
<humphreybc> the danish plug is the best
<humphreybc> it's a happy face
<humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K_plug.jpg
<ubuntujenkins> haha lol
<thorwil> humphreybc: talked with Iain and Kenneth today and found out that the reddish orange one gets to see using one of the for-web SVGs is the right color. it's the guidelines pdf that is off
<humphreybc> i see
<humphreybc> well that's okay then
<humphreybc> did you get the email I sent to daker and CC'd you in?
<thorwil> yes
<humphreybc> cool
<thorwil> i'm really displeased with that tiny CoC in the circle
<thorwil> the logo has to be huge to have enough pixels to get that thing sharp
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> thorwil: you should be coming to UDS now that there's a dedicated design track :(
<thorwil> *shrug*
<humphreybc> what do you use to open .eps files? Inkscape?
<thorwil> i don't open eps file :/
<humphreybc> ?
<thorwil> inkscape should be able to open eps, with the help of Ghostscript and ps2pdf
<humphreybc> how did you export that logo?
<humphreybc> I opened it in gimp and saved it to a png but it didn't have an alpha layer
<thorwil> opened an SVG in inkscape
<humphreybc> oh, where are the SVGs?
<humphreybc> ah
<humphreybc> under teh SVG folder
<humphreybc> d'oh
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk ping
<ubuntujenkins> We have 32164 downloads so far! \o/
<c7p> nice :D
<c7p> we will make this number and the reputation of the project larger, when the translated version will be released too ;)
<ubuntujenkins> definatley so c7p
<c7p> do anybody know when the translated version will be released ?
<ubuntujenkins> when the language is complete, and kevin has sorted the layout of it
<c7p> cu later
 * ubuntujenkins has had a very successful day he has packaged all the latex packages that the manual now to wait 3 days to find out if i did it right.
<ubuntujenkins> *needs
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-01
<humphreybc> hello
<godbyk> hey
<nisshh> humphreybc: i have finally been added to the list of people who get their blogs syndicated to ubuntu-au planet
<nisshh> it means ill now get to post stuff about the manual to ubuntu-au users specifically
<godbyk> nisshh: awesome. congratulations!
<nisshh> godbyk: cheers! iv been on the waiting list for a good 3 months now
<godbyk> wow
<nisshh> yea, the ubuntu-au community is pretty munted at the moment
<nisshh> alot of people want alot of different things!
<godbyk> thorwil: I ordered a copy of the manual from lulu, so we can see if there are any problems with the printed version (margins, print resolution, etc.).
<thorwil> godbyk: cool. if it comes out well, i would like to have some high quality photos ;)
<godbyk> Sure!
<godbyk> You'll get some high-res photos one way or another. :)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> I have packaged ccicons how ever I noticed that they currently intsall in the home directory of the user, this is a big no no with a package. are they ment to go there or can they go some where else
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: they can be installed with the other texlive packages.
<ubuntujenkins> where would that be godbyk
<godbyk> It should go in /usr/share/texmf-texlive/...
<godbyk> I'm currently installing the existing lucid texlive packages and seeing what's missing.
<godbyk> maybe we can package just the differences that we need.
<ubuntujenkins> I think we package it al;ll so no lucid users can use it. I have them in a ppa waiting to be built
<ubuntujenkins> *non
<godbyk> how long would it take to get the lucid texlive packages themselves updated?
<godbyk> (instead of our own packages for everything)
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know the stuff in the ppa is the latest from debian
<ubuntujenkins> there is a three day build que
<godbyk> so we'd have to update the debian packages and then push them downstream to ubuntu?
<ubuntujenkins> yes they guy who does it all is very helpful. The last set of packages are not that old couple of months thats it
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> so we'd just need to get debian to update their stuff and then this guy would update the ubuntu packages/
<godbyk> ?
<ubuntujenkins> no the guy does the debian stuff and the when ubuntu does a debian import they get dragged in
<godbyk> aha, gotcha.
<godbyk> can we have the debian guy update his packages?
<godbyk> then we just have to coax ubuntu into importing them
<godbyk> (I don't know what that process is like)
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure how open to updating it he will be. They are quite new.
<ubuntujenkins> When i say he has been nice he has been vary helpfull in answering my questions on the mailing list.
<godbyk> I think the tex live people are hoping to release tex live 2010 this summer.
<ubuntujenkins> nice, I would hope he will update the debian files then
<ubuntujenkins> Also what would happen if the updmap --enable Map ccicons.map command was not run. I am not sure if the package does it or not. Would a reboot be enough?
<godbyk> A reboot wouldn't do it.
<ubuntujenkins> ok I will make sure that it is run
<godbyk> It adds the font mapping to the list of font mappings.
<ubuntujenkins> If all these packages that are in the ppa work I will work out how to get that command running
<godbyk> what all packages are you creating?
<ubuntujenkins> the stuff i uploaded creates lots of files but, texlive-base , bin , doc , extra and xindy are waiting to build. xindy has to come from a ppa as its not in ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> its in debian
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you please remove 01-live-cd-welcome@pl@1272645268.png and 08-display-properties-confirm@es@1272533840.png
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<TMKCodes> Are you guys using google docs for collaborating the manual?
<ubuntujenkins> TMKCodes: we are using bzr and latex for the formating
<ubuntujenkins> be back in 20
<TMKCodes> Ah. :P
<TMKCodes> Well i was just thinking that google docs is quite powerful at collaborating as multiple users can write the same time to the document
<ubuntujenkins> TMKCodes: I see your point, we do try and do it so only one person is writing on one subject so there is no conflicts
<ubuntujenkins> *subject/application
<TMKCodes> yeah
<daker> hello :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> wassup
<ubuntujenkins> not much really fairly quite to be honest
<ubuntujenkins> what baout you?
<daker> writing some python code
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: how do you keep up with #ubuntu I can't tell whos questions have been answered and whos haven't. You know your bot factoids
<ubuntujenkins> daker: what for?
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I don't know all the factoids
<sebsebseb> I like that busy channel :D
<sebsebseb> many hate it
<daker> try to code my own Bot
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: Since Ubuntu 9.04,  Ubuntu is a like and dislike realtionship
<sebsebseb> however i'lll still help in IRC with it
<ubuntujenkins> daker: have you looked at the ubuntu bot source?
<sebsebseb> better people use Ubuntu than Windows or Mac OS X
<sebsebseb> even though loads of other distros are really good as well
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: its good to see people helping, I can't read as quick as you
<ubuntujenkins> hello IlyaHaykinson
<IlyaHaykinson> hi ubuntujenkins
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I used to be rather active in 2009 there
<daker> ubuntujenkins, well the code is very hard for me right now
<sebsebseb> ,but then out came the bad Ubuntu 9.10 release
<sebsebseb> so not as much, plus wanted to do other things
<sebsebseb> ,but now things are mainly about 10.04 so :D
<sebsebseb> things have changed a bit
<ubuntujenkins> what are your thought on lucid sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> factoidwise as well
<sebsebseb> :)
<sebsebseb> that's an interesting one
<sebsebseb> how I will do Lucid on the other computer, when it gets upgraded from Karmic
<sebsebseb> maybe later tonight
<sebsebseb> well yes probably later tonight
<ubuntujenkins> daker: you could just change all the factoids on the ubuntu bot
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: I like it allot hope it works for you :)
<sebsebseb> I have been testing in vm since alpha 1
<sebsebseb> in my better for me anyway and so on,  Mandriva One 2010  host :)
<sebsebseb> so now I am quite bored of Lucid really
<sebsebseb> as for the other computer family one, so I don't use it that much, it has Ubuntu and XP
<sebsebseb> my older brother started using Ubuntu on there, soon after XP messed up big time :)
<sebsebseb> he uses Facebook a lot
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: fair enough, I replaced xp with ubuntu when it messed up as well
<sebsebseb> sadly when XP did mess up big time on there, my Dad wanted me to re do the whole hard disk
<sebsebseb> that meant bye bye 9.04
<sebsebseb> this was January when the hard disk gets re done,  I thought ah well  not that long really to 10.04 now, so i'll put 9.10 on,  however two months well more like three,  or whatever, is  longer than you think when waiting for something
<sebsebseb> in this case waiting for the stable 10.04 release,  I am not going to run development version on there, even though I could
<ubuntujenkins> I told my faimily that ubuntu was their only choice, they didin't complain
<sebsebseb> brown human themes for my brothers :D
<sebsebseb> the one before 9.10
<sebsebseb> so yeah brown, a bit of orange even I guess
<sebsebseb> well that will be their 10.04 theme as well
<ubuntujenkins> Lucid themes are the best the black one for me
<sebsebseb> no they aren't
<sebsebseb> well the black one is alright, untill Firefox is opended, then things look to black for my likeing
<sebsebseb> also those window borders are ok, but a bit ugly really
<ubuntujenkins> I use chromium
<sebsebseb> chromium/chrome hrm
<sebsebseb> the fan boys get at me a bit
<sebsebseb> those who think it's really great
<sebsebseb> I am rather loyal to Firefox
<ubuntujenkins> I just perfer it, only reason why i use it
<sebsebseb> I don't like how,  well  they done even more bad Gnome editing
<sebsebseb> in 10.04
<sebsebseb> however for other people, things like the me menu, will be pretty good
<ubuntujenkins> IlyaHaykinson: as I have lot of quickshot work I don't think i will be able to contribute to writing for the next release
<IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: no worries. plus we've got a while before we start writing much.
<sebsebseb> I don't like how the me menu is linked to  their edited fast user account switcher,  can't just remove one, whilst keeping the other
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: i don't mind the memenu
<IlyaHaykinson> right now the priority is to do the research to figure out what we may want to change for maverick
<ubuntujenkins> IlyaHaykinson: Just thought it was best to let you know
<sebsebseb> also when that is enabled no shut down or log out in system menu,  which has been the case since 9.04 with edited fast user account switcher
<IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: thanks. i do appreciate it.
<sebsebseb> ,but what's even worse when it comes to 10.04 is how, with the edited fast user account switcher and me menu.  no upstream automatic shut down feature
<sebsebseb> anymore
<sebsebseb> you know the one that will shut down after a minute automatically,  after telling it to shut down, if un touched?  you know the one I mean right? I hope
<sebsebseb> instead these newbie, do you really want to shut down, do you really want to restart,  messages instead
<ubuntujenkins> I I know I thought that was a silly feature 10 seconds would have been better
<sebsebseb> 10 seconds for what?
<ubuntujenkins> 10 seconds instead of 60
<sebsebseb> anyway can have automatic shut down, but got to remove me menu, and edited fast user account switcher from the panel first, yep both since they are linked
<sebsebseb> 10 seconds uh no
<sebsebseb> 60 is good
<sebsebseb> 60 gives people quite a lot of  time to cancel, if they did it accidently
<sebsebseb> KDE has 30 seconds
<sebsebseb> if I remember correctly
<ubuntujenkins> 30 is more reasonable
<sebsebseb> when Ubuntu 8.10 came out
<sebsebseb> which sadly went end of life yesterday
<sebsebseb> well when that great release came out, one of the features other than the great default background, that I liked
<sebsebseb> a lot
<sebsebseb> was the automatic shut down feature
<sebsebseb> I found that quite the upgrade over  8.04
<sebsebseb> RIP 8.10 :(
<sebsebseb> oh 8.10, oh 8.10 <3
<ubuntujenkins> not good then :(
<sebsebseb> even though the ethernet woudn't just work on the other computer sadly,  however that also needs a driver in XP
<sebsebseb> and by the time I finally  bothered to upgrade it to 8.10 from 8.04, 9.04 was out anyway.  and 9.04 is great with the optionallExt4 support (which isn't perfectly stable since the kernel and such) and verbose/text mode
<sebsebseb> at first I thought the upgrade had gone wrong, but then I did a Live CD, and woudn't work there either
<sebsebseb> I tried to figure out a bit about how I would get it working,  was suggested to look in /etc/hosts for something and stuff like that, but gave up soon after woulds.  since 9.04 was already out
<sebsebseb> anyway going back to 10.04,  I also don't like how the envolope is linked to the sound applet
<sebsebseb> that new sound applet I guess is alright, shame that envelope is linked to it though.  oh and an envelope icon is quite pathetic really,  unless it's for an email client
<ubuntujenkins> I am not bothered by those changes, as long as i can do what i want thats fine by me
<sebsebseb> I don't really care about Facebook
<sebsebseb> :)
<sebsebseb> since...
<sebsebseb> so yep I haven't even tested the me menu  as in with logged in accounts
<sebsebseb> Gwibber
<sebsebseb> played around with what I could in vm, without logging in to accounts though.
<ubuntujenkins> I am not much of a gwibber fan the pidgin plugin for facebook is better
<sebsebseb> yes I have used the Facebook IM  plugin before in Pidgin, and will set it up again, but not just yet
<sebsebseb> anyway doesn't the envelope show Pidgin stuff as well?  or is it really linked to empathy
<ubuntujenkins> IlyaHaykinson: kevin and i were talking the other night and a question along the lines of http://paste.ubuntu.com/426080/ would be useful for both the manual program. (and quickshot)
<sebsebseb> when I installed Pidgin into vm, it would show the icon  and name in the envelope
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: yes but even after removeing empathy you still see the chat  line for empathy
<sebsebseb> never set up an account in it though
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I have even played with that
<sebsebseb> you can remove the
<sebsebseb> set up email account
<sebsebseb> set up chat account, messages from the evenlope quite easilly
<sebsebseb> remove the programs,  or maybe there indicator programs as well. well I was able to do it in a vm that I did
<sebsebseb> for this very reason,  I am thinking about removing evolution, but also Ubuntu One
<ubuntujenkins> I have yet to reboot since removing empthay so I will haev to see
<sebsebseb> I don't want the Ubuntu Music Store
<sebsebseb> nice feature, but this is not something I want to use,  or my older brother  who woudn't want to use it anyway I expect, he would rather buy CD's,  or get for free legally
<ubuntujenkins> just remove the plugin it is expensive
<sebsebseb> MP3's
<sebsebseb> ah ha you have actsauly tried it or ?
<ubuntujenkins> I looked at the prices and downloaded a free song
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: well omgubuntu site, said that, Canoncial was going to give 50% of the profits to some charity
<sebsebseb> to save the Lucid Lynx
<sebsebseb> or whatever it was
<ubuntujenkins> I did read that
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: well Banshee is what I use persoanlly :) since like 9.04
<sebsebseb> and  I even got my older brother using Banshee before.
<sebsebseb> yes yes Mono, but anyway Banshee :)
<sebsebseb> Mono isn't really a good thing for Desktop Linux though, but some pretty good programs use it
<ubuntujenkins> I find banshee crashes and is delayed in getting podcasts
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: heh we are so off topic, but so what
<sebsebseb> !ot
<manualbot> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<sebsebseb> ah
<sebsebseb> no
<ubuntujenkins> its not as if we are stopping people from talking
<sebsebseb> the factoid I came up with before, is no longer there
<sebsebseb> Best to keep this channel mainly on topic!
<sebsebseb> it's not there anymore :(
<sebsebseb> dutchie: sort that out please :)  ^
<ubuntujenkins> I do remember it I will ask dutchie when he is back from oggcamp
<sebsebseb> oggcamp?
<sebsebseb> for the music format?
<sebsebseb> and video
<sebsebseb> oh yeah there's something about how Apple will now try and patent sue, the company who made OGG, or whatever it was
<ubuntujenkins> no http://oggcamp.org
<sebsebseb> I know that URL thing you know with the title
<sebsebseb> isn't useually done in Ubuntu channels, but maybe the bot here should do it
<ubuntujenkins> apple always try and sure people. evil company
<ubuntujenkins> what url thing?
<sebsebseb> in fact I have never seen that done in an Ubuntu channel, maybe unoffical ones though
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: there's one for bots, where it will get the title of the webpage and show people
<sebsebseb> when a link is given out
<ubuntujenkins> not seen it i am usually in ubuntu channels
<sebsebseb> yes
<sebsebseb> that's what I was saying
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu channels don't do it
<sebsebseb> ,but maybe this one could/should
<ubuntujenkins> depends thats an ask dutchie again
<sebsebseb> in a way
<sebsebseb> removing default apps
<sebsebseb> is removing the Ubuntu experience or at least some of it ?
<sebsebseb> I mean it's still Ubuntu sure, but in a way it isn't, get what I mean?
<ubuntujenkins> I get what you mean but part of ubuntu is that it can be customized
<ubuntujenkins> they just make suggestions of what they think is the best programs
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: well that's the case for all/most distros
<ubuntujenkins> true
<sebsebseb> my older brother well what I said so far about editing, so human theme, remove some apps
<sebsebseb> this time round I am going to let him have the Gnome edits though
<sebsebseb> so yep he will no longer be shutting down from the system menu as a result
<sebsebseb> well I am forced to let him  have what I don't really want him to have, by giving him the me menu, which is what I do want him to have
<sebsebseb> my little brother is to young and that, so  yep like before, bye bye fast user account switcher their edited one, which also means the me menu since they are linked, if they hadn't been I would have removed me menu seperatly
<sebsebseb> my account on there will be like this as well
<sebsebseb> then yep shut down and log out in system menu :)  and I guess the icons will still be showing there after upgrade, if not I can enable that
<ubuntujenkins> :)
<sebsebseb> and  I tried the plymouth themes in vm
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't looked into them at all
<sebsebseb> the default is alright, but  I like the text boot one.  that will say Ubuntu 10.04  and have the dots
<ubuntujenkins> any good ones?
<sebsebseb> so that's the one I will go for,  which is really the one that is shown, if people can't  show the others properly since graphics card, or whatever repo was saying
<sebsebseb> and yes  they are all good really or most of them
<sebsebseb> plymouth is not new for me at all
<sebsebseb> since  Mandriva was a distro that had it first ;)
<sebsebseb> :)
<sebsebseb> it's really  a Fedora/Redhat thing though
<ubuntujenkins> yep fedora had it last release
<sebsebseb> yep and Mandriva One 2010 which came out in November
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu had that lame Xsplash effect instead
<sebsebseb> I really didn't like that much at all,  the white Ubuntu logo in the centre of the screen on boot up, I thought it was quite pathetic really
<sebsebseb> so when other computer went 9.10,  just like I had done before on this one,  Kubuntu xsplash theme instead.  and yes KDM :) I don't like GDM 2 much at all
<ubuntujenkins> you couldn't tell if ubuntu was doing anything with just the logo
<sebsebseb> KDM  looks a lot better in Lucid by default, since KDE 4.4 has improved it
<sebsebseb> yes the dots are good for  plymouth in 10.04
<sebsebseb> the loading dots
<ubuntujenkins> not really got on with kdm
<sebsebseb> kdm  used to suck
<sebsebseb> and GDM was :)
<sebsebseb> ,but then they ruined GDM, upstream Gnome that is
<sebsebseb> and  well KDM just happens to be way better than it was :)
<sebsebseb> LXDM the Lubuntu one, now that's a rather nice log in screen as well, with the Lubuntu logo by default
<ubuntujenkins> I have the lubuntu iso to try
<sebsebseb> slim  is in repo in Lucid, rather customizable  log in screen,  and it has the Debian logo and so theme by default
<sebsebseb> I was telling a IRC friend of mine from the Ubuntu channels,  this log in screen stuff earlier, in #ubuntu
<sebsebseb> as well as suggesting KDM  to someone that said they were a new user :)  since they wanted a better screen
<sebsebseb> oh lubuntu is rather nice indeed
<sebsebseb> I installed in 9.10 on other computer, but I also vm'd an ISO of beta 1 or 2   on this one
<sebsebseb> something about how it won't be offical untill 10.10 though
<sebsebseb> for whatever reason/s
<ubuntujenkins> just putting it on  a flash drive now
<sebsebseb> Lubuntu big :)
<sebsebseb> apparantly it's also a lot more lite waight than XFCE
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I typed that upstream Gnome ruined GDM,  well  it's ok really,  I just much prefer other log in screens instead :)
<sebsebseb> shame though that new one can't be  themed like old one, and that kind of thing,  well  with some other program maybe
<sebsebseb> altough I think it's can change the background, and that's about it
<ubuntujenkins> I have just been looking at slim, see if i can find a nice ubuntu theme for it
<sebsebseb> there doesn't seem to be one, well not on it's offical website anyway
<sebsebseb> ,but
<sebsebseb> it seems by the website, that it woudn't be that hard to make our own theme
<sebsebseb> well I won't just recommend slim or LXDM to people in #ubuntu even though they are also good
<sebsebseb> since,  LXDM will say Lubuntu on it, and slim will say Debian
<sebsebseb> by default
<ubuntujenkins> I had noticed, just not very artistic
<sebsebseb> when getting from repo
<sebsebseb> you had noticed what?
<sebsebseb> oh that it's quite easy to make a theme for slim?
<ubuntujenkins> how easy it would be to make a slim theme
<sebsebseb> I don't bother with graphics design myself,  I have made some basic graphics before on computer though.
<ubuntujenkins> I think i will go to bed night sebsebseb, good to haev a chat with you
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: one last thing
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I think the reason the manualbot factoid for ot changed, is since they have imported a later version of the ubottu brain or however these bots work
<sebsebseb> !manual
<manualbot> The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<sebsebseb> yes
<sebsebseb> that seems to confirm that
<sebsebseb> !controls
<manualbot> In Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information, please see http://alturl.com/b6ja | To move them back to the right-hand side, see http://alturl.com/x5d6
<sebsebseb> and this
<ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb: that may be the case, O thought dutchie would just teach the manual one to it
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: yep
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: also nearly 11pm is a bit early for a Saturday night isn't it?
<sebsebseb> espesaily when it's also bank hoilday weekend
<ubuntujenkins> I ahev loads of uni work and am stupidly tired all the time at the moment
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I have a feeling that in the morning, you might see some more factoids from #ubuntu
<sebsebseb> you know why :D
<sebsebseb> factoids uh
<sebsebseb> that was meant to be highlights
<ubuntujenkins> lol, its good you are promoting it
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: yeah, but
<sebsebseb> got to do it correctly
<sebsebseb> otherwise it's spamming really
<ubuntujenkins> yep, anyway night
<sebsebseb> ok night
<sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: sleep tight
<sebsebseb> good night sleep tight
<sebsebseb> as the saying goes
<sebsebseb> For anyone that might/will read this,  hrm,  I say he might have more high lights,  and then he leaves this channel, but also #ubuntu   Well if he isn't in the channel the word manual won't high light him.  Also I might not be using the word manual again in a channel tonight, don't know yet.
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-02
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: thx for the lime survey invite
<IlyaHaykinson> and thanks for setting it up
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: No problem.
<godbyk> I've set you up as an admin.
<godbyk> Feel free to play around.
<godbyk> I just got it online.
<godbyk> I haven't really set up anything yet.
<godbyk> (I have no idea what I'm doing.)
<godbyk> I'll turn it over to you and let you have at it. :)
<IlyaHaykinson> okie dok.
<godbyk> Let me know if you run into any problems.
<daker> !l
<Q_BOT> .977 Sweeper - 194 (http://icecast3.977music.com/hitz)
<manualbot> Factoid 'l' not found
<daker> !l
<Q_BOT> Shaggy - Luv Me, Luv Me (http://icecast3.977music.com/hitz)
<humphreybc> hmm
 * humphreybc is doing a python lab
<humphreybc> here's the question
<humphreybc> song = "The rain in Spain..."
<humphreybc> "Describe the relationship between ' '.join(song.split()) and song. Are they the same for all strings? When would they be different?
<godbyk> I have no idea what it means by 'describe the relationship'.
<humphreybc> i asked in #nzpug
<godbyk> It'll split song into space-delimited tokens and piece them back together separating by spaces.
<humphreybc> basically, they would almost be the same except that split() skips over multiple spaces
<godbyk> I think that split() by default will not return the empty elements, so that line would remove double spaces.
<godbyk> but I could be wrong.
<godbyk> sweet! so I'm write then. (or at least in agreement with them.)
<godbyk> crap.. s/write/right/
<godbyk> that's embarrassing. :)
<humphreybc> ha!!!
<humphreybc> that is SO embarassing
<humphreybc> oops
<humphreybc> embarrassing*
<humphreybc> gah
<humphreybc> see if you can help me with this one
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/d6BconKvLH
 * humphreybc dislikes programming 
 * humphreybc gives up
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> it's not so bad.
<godbyk> did you learn for loops?
<humphreybc> yeah but i've always been shit at for loops
<humphreybc> actually, make that loops in general
<godbyk> ah, well, we're going to use a for loop.
<godbyk> so you'll have to get the hang of it.
 * humphreybc feels unbelievably stupid
<ubuntujenkins> morning o/
<thorwil> morning!
<ubuntujenkins> hey thorwil, how are you?
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: i'm fine. just recovering from stepping into the ubuntu wiki to create a main page for the next release
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<thorwil> oh how i would love to see more intelligence and etherpad like editing there. with a theme that doesn't look like a half-assed attempt from the 90ies
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: and you?
<ubuntujenkins> I am good, going to do lots of uni work today.
<thorwil> ah university ... those where the days when i still had a perfectly fine place in society and things seemed to progress on a clear path :)
<ubuntujenkins> I have to much work unfortnatly not enought time to code quickshot at the moment. can't wait till I finish and have time to do so.
<humphreybc> thorwil: do you have skype?
<thorwil> humphreybc: yes. my spoken english is horrible, though
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://www.reinteract.org/trac/
<humphreybc> godbyk, sent it to my HOD
<godbyk> I typically use it for things like this: http://fishsoup.net/software/reinteract/
<c7p> hello
<ubuntujenkins> hey c7p
<c7p> after the release of Ubuntu manual, I haven't heard any plans about the translated versions
<c7p> what about them?
 * godbyk hides
 * humphreybc also hides
<humphreybc> shhh, we're not here
<humphreybc> c7p: they'll be out very soon
<humphreybc> just hold your horses
<c7p> ok :p
<humphreybc> c7p: you want to be the Greek editor?
<c7p> hm
<humphreybc> we need editors for each language to check everything
<humphreybc> and to work with godbyk to make sure the formatting looks good in the PDF
<c7p> editors just ensure that the translations are ok (and also the latex tags) ?
<godbyk> c7p: we'll have to rearrange the margin notes a bit so they align nicely with the associated text, too.
<godbyk> and generally make sure the pdf looks perfect before it's released
<c7p> hm great
<c7p> i think this Monday any bad the translations will be corrected, so in the week we can do the job, if you have free time of course
<ubuntujenkins> has anyones manual book arrived yet?
<godbyk> Nope, not yet.
<godbyk> Mine still says it's being processed, I think.
<ubuntujenkins> my status is "fulfilling"
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: mine is, too
 * ubuntujenkins wants it to hurry up :)
<wyh> hi there, I find there no Chinese version of manual website, who can fix it?
<wyh> The translation is finished.
<godbyk> wyh: We'll get the translations incorporated soon.
<wyh> godbyk: fine. and the Chinese triditional translation is actually the simplified version, please correct it
<godbyk> wyh: I'll make a note of that and pass it along to our web developers. Thanks!
<wyh> godbyk: that is to say, the triditional version has not been translated yet
<wyh> godbyk: fine, thank you
<godbyk> Hey, daker.  wyh just pointed out that the Chinese translation on the website needs to be updated.
<godbyk> daker: I think the Greek translation also needs to be updated.
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> wyh: meet daker, our web developer :)
<wyh> daker: hi
<wyh> daker: the site looks nice
<wyh> daker: the dropdown menu item for Chinese simplified is missing. should be ç®ä½ä¸­æ
<wyh> daker: and the item for Chinese triditional should use ç¹é«ä¸­æ or ä¸­æ(ç¹é«å­). the current one is in simplified Chinese
<wyh> leave for meal. bye everyone...
<daker> back
<ubuntujenkins> hello Q_BOT
<daker> ubuntujenkins, Q_BOT is my Bot
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I guessed that, thats why i said hello :P
<daker> !quickshot
<Q_BOT> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<manualbot> Factoid 'quickshot' not found
<daker> !wiki
<manualbot> http://wiki.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu development documentation wiki. If you are looking for system help, please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community - the Ubuntu community documentation.
<Q_BOT> http://www.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot : Quickshot wiki
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/ quickshot factoids
<godbyk> humphreybc, thorwil: http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/02/how_to_create_a.html
<daker> !code
<manualbot> Programming editors/suites: Terminal-based: vi/vim, emacs - KDE: Kate, KDevelop, Quanta+, Umbrello - GNOME: gvim, gedit, anjuta, pida, monodevelop, geany - Others: eclipse, netbeans, qtcreator
<Q_BOT> https://code.launchpad.net/quickshot : browse Quickshot source code
<ubuntujenkins> can we use a ? and not a ! so that we dont invoke manual bot?
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> daker: do with have a Q_BOT factoids list?
<daker> right now no
<ubuntujenkins> kk
<daker> i need to know how to write a string with multiple line, do you know ?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't understand your question
<ubuntujenkins> \n is new line
<daker> a oki
<daker> !help
<manualbot> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> !botcode
<manualbot> Factoid 'botcode' not found
<ubuntujenkins> !bot
<manualbot> Hi! I'm ubottu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins
<ubuntujenkins> !botsnack
<manualbot> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<humphreybc> hey daker, how's it going?
<daker> fine
<humphreybc> godbyk, thorwil, maybe we should design some sort of nice charter, maybe in latex or an image with the core principles laid out in nice font and stuff
<fenre> How often do you update the translations of the website?
<godbyk> humphreybc: when they're finished, we can look into it, sure.
<daker> fenre, i am updating it right now
<fenre> I see that a lot of languages is finished translated, but appearing purple in launchpad
<fenre> daker, thanks :)
<thorwil> humphreybc: with a service where everyone can order the charter and you will send them a signed copy, sealed with wax?
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I could provide that service... for a small fee. ;-)
<thorwil> heh, a business plan, get venture capital!
<humphreybc> thorwil: possibly!
<humphreybc> heh
 * humphreybc now has chocolate, a cookie, ginger beer and milk.
<thorwil> godbyk: what's the adjective form of empathy?
<godbyk> thorwil: empathic?
<thorwil> godbyk: maybe, but it seems that's used more often to mean stressed or accented
<godbyk> thorwil: Sometimes 'empathetic', but usually 'empathic'.
<thorwil> anyway, that's what i wanted to say regarding helping the user. to be emphatic
<godbyk> Ah.
<godbyk> To borrow Kathy Sierra's phrase, we should strive to help our readers kick ass.
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> somehow the mental picture does not connect to the typical tasks we cover ;)
<godbyk> It's not about 'learning Ubuntu', it's about helping people achieve their goals and have fun in the process.
<godbyk> They should have a feeling of accomplishment.
<godbyk> Not because they've *managed* to *figure out* how to get their photos off their camera,
<godbyk> but because they are enjoying looking at the photos as they organize their collection.
<thorwil> exactly
<thorwil> godbyk: isn't it beautiful how we sing in harmony? :)
<godbyk> It's all about the user/reader.
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> I think that showing that our manual can help you accomplish X or Y is better than saying 'our manual is easy to understand'.
<godbyk> That attitude also informs our writing style.
<humphreybc> I agree :)
<godbyk> It should be written in a friendly, conversational tone.  Not 'here are the 17 steps you must go through to import your photos from your camera to f-spot.'
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> we should become Gnome, not KDE.
<humphreybc> :P
<ubuntujenkins> !quickshot
<manualbot> Factoid 'quickshot' not found
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<Q_BOT> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> yey daker, I like it a lot
<daker> !help
<manualbot> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<daker> ?help
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<ubuntujenkins> -quickshot
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> sweet
<daker> ?ppa
<QuickShotBot> Already using Ubuntu 10.04? Add our PPA by running these commands in a terminal(Applications â Accessories â Terminal):
<daker> the strings are not working :s
<ubuntujenkins> have you a bzr branch of the code? then i can see if i can help
<daker> just a minute
<ubuntujenkins> or if its one file past bin it
<godbyk> Okay, I'm off to bed.
<godbyk> See you guys later!
<ubuntujenkins> see you later godbyk
<c7p> the default search engine for lucid, isn't yahoo ?
<ubuntujenkins> nope its google
<c7p> ok thank you
<ubuntujenkins> they changed their minds half way though the devlopment
<c7p> so there is no deal between canonical and yahoo ?
<c7p> *.
<ubuntujenkins> I guess not, although i con't actually know
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i pushed the code
<ubuntujenkins> where?
<daker> located in /bot/quicksot.py
<daker> lp:quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> can you please pastbin it i can't connect to launchpad
<daker> sure
<daker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/426407/
<daker> ubuntujenkins, the problem is located in quickshot_use, quickshot_ppa and quickshot_help strings
<daker> the \n doesn't work
<ubuntujenkins> does it work in ?quickshot   ?
<daker> yes
<daker> ah no no i am not sure
<ubuntujenkins> why are they not with the stuff thats in lines 92 - 106 ?
<daker> ?quickshot
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> nope it should say  It is written in Python and uses Glade for the user interface. at the end
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> ?paste
<QuickShotBot> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com : upload snippets of text
<daker> the stuff in lines 92 - 106 is an array of array
<daker> it used in
<daker> if word in links:
<daker> 		    			say(channel, links[word][0]+' : '+links[word][1])
<daker> 		    			time.sleep(2)
<daker> i know
<ubuntujenkins> we have differtn line numbers
<daker> well irc is seeing the \n as a command
<daker> debug
<daker> :verne.freenode.net 421 QuickShotBot It :Unknown command
<ubuntujenkins> of course
<ubuntujenkins> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/426407/ look at lines 92 to 106 surely thats where quickshot_use and ppa an help should go
<ubuntujenkins> !bot
<manualbot> Hi! I'm ubottu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins
<ubuntujenkins> !source
<manualbot> You can easily fetch a package's source with apt-get. See: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-sourcehandling.en.html
<ubuntujenkins> !botsource
<manualbot> Factoid 'botsource' not found
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> just going to see if the uboot has new lines in
<ubuntujenkins> ubot is more complex than your bot
<daker> yes
<daker> ?quickshot
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> I can't think how to escape the \n
<daker> ?ppa
<QuickShotBot> Already using Ubuntu 10.04? Add our PPA by running these commands in a terminal(Applications â Accessories â Terminal):
<ubuntujenkins> \n
<ubuntujenkins> but i can type \n
<daker> hhh
<daker> brb
<daker> ?help
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<daker> fu***
<ubuntujenkins> how do i run it so that i can test it?
<daker> line 27
<daker> change the nickname
<ubuntujenkins> yep was going to do that
<daker> $ python script.py
<ubuntujenkins> anything else i should change? wow its that simple
<daker> that's all
<daker> ?ppa
<QuickShotBot> Already using Ubuntu 10.04? Add our PPA by running these commands in a terminal(Applications â Accessories â Terminal):
<ubuntujenkins> I haven't made any chages yet
<ubuntujenkins> how do you make it quit cleanly?
<ubuntujenkins> \\n
<daker> can rephrase your question pls
<daker> you
<ubuntujenkins> how do i make the bot leave the channel?
<daker> for CTRL+C
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<luke2-quickShotB> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future. \n It is written in Python and uses Glade for the user interface
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<daker> haha
<daker> brb
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<LQuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<LQuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<LQuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future. It is written in Python and uses Glade for the user interface.
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<LQuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> ?useage
<ubuntujenkins> ?help
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<daker> hhh
<daker> ubuntujenkins, anything ?
<nisshh> can someone give me a hand with something?
<nisshh> just really quickly
<ubuntujenkins> no I like te way you have formated the factoids the \n thing is usefull
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: go for it
<ubuntujenkins> I will do my best
<nisshh> im having problems trying to untar .tar.gz archives in the terminal
<nisshh> and i have no idea why its not working
<ubuntujenkins> daker: where did you get the source from
<nisshh> for instance i have a file called example.tar.gz, and i go: tar -zxvf example.tar.gz
<nisshh> and that comes up with:
<nisshh> tar: -zxvf: Cannot open: No such file or directory
<ubuntujenkins> is the tar.gz file corrupt? does it work in the gui?
<nisshh> it works fine using the gui
<nisshh> and no its not corrupt since i have tried multiple .tar.gz's
<nisshh> im completely stumped
<nisshh> any ideas?
<ubuntujenkins> try with out the z flag random idea, i have no clue
 * ubuntujenkins hhm the bot keeps timing out
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: what does that bot do?
<ubuntujenkins> Its a bot for quickshot information, daker's idea. there are two of them at the moment so i will not invoke it
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: you question is a strange ont
<ubuntujenkins> *one
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> ill help you test it out later
<ubuntujenkins> we are using ? or - or + so not to invoke manualbot
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> hehe, there it goes again!
<ubuntujenkins> daker: any idea why it keeps quiting by its self?
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<LQuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future. It is written in Python and uses Glade for the user interface.
<ubuntujenkins> just noticed daker quict his one
<daker> ubuntujenkins, cause he is not ponging the server
<ubuntujenkins> can we impliment that?
<daker> i'am working on
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, I am still trying to understand this new line thing
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> did you write this from scratch or is i biased on something?
<daker> from scratch but some stuff are taken from BeeBot
<ubuntujenkins> lol http://www.tts-group.co.uk/Bee-Bot first google result
<ubuntujenkins> sorry nisshh but i can't think why you have a tar problem.
<daker> nisshh, type : $ ls
<nisshh> daker: in the terminal?
<daker> yes
<daker> type
<nisshh> why?
<daker> ls
<daker> tar: -zxvf: Cannot open: No such file or directory
<daker> juste to see if the file is located there
<nisshh> daker: i know for a fact that the archive already exists there, i created it
<nisshh> daker the whole error is this:
<nisshh> tar: -zxvf: Cannot open: No such file or directory
<nisshh> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
<nisshh> tar: Child returned status 2
<nisshh> tar: pspshrink-1.1.2.tar.gz: Not found in archive
<nisshh> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
<nisshh> thats the entire error
<daker> O.o
<daker> ?help
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<nisshh> ?yummy
<daker> i can't help you
<nisshh> aw it doesnt work
<daker> :)
<ubuntujenkins> ?wiki
<QuickShotBot> http://www.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot : Quickshot wiki
<nisshh> daker: thats ok, i just posted about it on UF too
<daker> ?bug #571418
<QuickShotBot> Bug #571418 in quickshot: "Add option for custom username and hostname", https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/571418
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 571418 in quickshot "Add option for custom username and hostname" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/571418
<LQuickShotBot> Bug #571418 in quickshot: "Add option for custom username and hostname", https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/571418
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 571418 in quickshot "Add option for custom username and hostname" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ubuntujenkins> lol three bots doing bugd
<ubuntujenkins> *bugs
<daker> ?bugs
<QuickShotBot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot : report bugs
<daker> ?blueprint
<QuickShotBot> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quickshot : register plans for Quickshot
<daker> ?home
<QuickShotBot> http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org : Quickshot website
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I have moved my testing to #quickshot
<nisshh> WOW! the new openbox is freaking fast!
<daker> ubuntujenkins, is there any plan for quickshot dev ?
<ubuntujenkins> as in the bot daker?
<daker> no, what we are going to do for the next release ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/next-release-plan
<daker> tnx
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<daker> should i put the stuff in /server/ ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: proably best to make its own branch and i will ask godbyk if he will host it
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> daker: Is is possible for us to teach it new factoids over irc? I guess not at the moment
<ubuntujenkins> if all the factoids were a list in another file it might be possible i guess
<daker> sure ?
<daker> :D
<ubuntujenkins> I was just think as currently you have to restart it if you added a new factoid to the file
<daker> we should ask dutchie , or someone good in python
<ubuntujenkins> I will have a proper look once my exams are over
<ubuntujenkins> its very good thanks daker
<daker> you are welcome
<daker> at the end we should fine someone how will run it on his computer or something like that
<daker>  find*
<ubuntujenkins> yep I will run it when my laptop is on.have you fixed the timing out issue?
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> 8on my laptop for testing
<ubuntujenkins> thats good
<daker> there is a lot work to do with the quickshot server side
<ubuntujenkins> there is, alot of quickshot work over all
<ubuntujenkins> I can't start the program until i finish exams and course work
<daker> when ?
<ubuntujenkins> 18th june
<ubuntujenkins> no 15th june
<daker> well good luck
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> can't wait to get back to quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<ubuntujenkins> daker: where can i find the latest code?
<daker> of what ?
<daker> the bot ?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<daker> lp:quickshot/bot/
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<daker> who will design the mockup for the quickshot website ?
<ubuntujenkins> erm I think it should look the same as the manual but with differnt text/images. ben might do some
<ubuntujenkins> the same as we are under the manual website
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> daker: what i don't understand is why the factoids are in two different places. i.e the ones with 'paste': ('http://pastebin.ubuntu.com','upload snippets of text'), and the ones with quickshot_help = 'Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,'
<daker> the factoids in 'paste': ('http://pastebin.ubuntu.com','upload snippets of text'), are in array
<ubuntujenkins> but can't they all be in an array?
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> soryr python knowledge is very limited
<daker> me too
<ubuntujenkins> I only know the stuff i need for quickshot
<daker> join #python
<ubuntujenkins> I am there
<daker> do i need to register a new branch for the server ?
<ubuntujenkins> no use lp:quickshot/server . the current serve is running from lp:quickshot/release
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> any thing you do in lp:quickshot/server will not show any where
<ubuntujenkins> ?help
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<daker> ?h
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<ubuntujenkins> #123658
<ubuntujenkins>  #123658
<ubuntujenkins> bug #123658
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 123658 in pida "test report" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123658
<ubuntujenkins> bug 123658
<daker> ?bug 123658
<QuickShotBot> Bug #123658 in pida: "test report", https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/123658
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 123658 in pida "test report" [Undecided,Invalid]
<ubuntujenkins> but thats not a quickshot bug
<daker> try to follow the link
<ubuntujenkins> I just did and is still works :)
<ubuntujenkins> I am going to cook be back soon
<ubuntujenkins> r123
<ubuntujenkins> yep dutchie broke manualbot he wrote over the database that told it to look up manual revsions
<ubuntujenkins> f
<daker> hhhhh
<daker> !hello
<manualbot> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines . Enjoy your stay!
<ubuntujenkins> o may be not
<daker> bug 4000
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 4000 in gnome-power-manager "Wrong temperature reading after resume " [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4000
<ubuntujenkins> but
<ubuntujenkins> !ot
<manualbot> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> that factoid has changed
<IlyaHaykinson> i'm doing some brainstorming about user research -- http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/xniGvB2Nlq
<ubuntujenkins> there was a manual one
<ubuntujenkins> ?use
<QuickShotBot> 1 - Open Quickshot (Applications â Accessories â Quickshot)2 - Create a Quickshot user and login3 - Let Quickshot set your screen resolution4 - Download the list of screenshots5 - Choose a screenshot6 - Set your desktop up7 - Capture, Compare and Upload.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, you will become crazy
<ubuntujenkins> I all ready am :-)
<ubuntujenkins> ?q
<ubuntujenkins> daker: can you make the bot quit please
<daker> ?q
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<daker> change the value value the array setting["owner"] to your irc nickname
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I will
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> ?q
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> daker: did you use an auto indenter?
<daker> ???!!!
<ubuntujenkins> to indent the code like
<ubuntujenkins> 	if(line.split(' ')[1]=='JOIN'):
<ubuntujenkins> 		channel = line.split(' ')[2][1:].strip()
<ubuntujenkins> 	
<ubuntujenkins> for the spaces at the front how did you make them?
<daker> tab key
<ubuntujenkins> I did the same but they are ment to 4 spaces.
<daker> are you using Gedit
<daker> ?
<ubuntujenkins> yes
<ubuntujenkins> When i started quickshot i was told not to use tab but to use 4 spaces. I don't know why
<ubuntujenkins> it is the best way to do it apparently
<daker> yes
<daker> we learn :D
<ubuntujenkins> yep, I am trying to get it to read the factoids from a file
<daker> manualbot, is reading factoids from a file ?
<manualbot> daker: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<manualbot> daker: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ubuntujenkins> it reads them from a database
<ubuntujenkins> ?q
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> ?q
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<daker> godbyk, ping
<daker> godbyk, http://flexpaper.devaldi.com/index.php
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://flexpaper.devaldi.com/index.php
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I like it
<daker> i think we will implement this on the website
<ubuntujenkins> sounds like a plan
<daker> we will see if we can convert the manuals in swf format
<ubuntujenkins> ?help > ubuntujenkins
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<ubuntujenkins> ?help | ubuntujenkins
<QuickShotBot> Usage : ?<factoids> or +<factoids> or -<factoids>,
<ubuntujenkins> ? quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> ?
<daker> a lot of bugs
<ubuntujenkins> ?quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> hmm reading from a file is hard, but understanding ubot is just as hard
<daker> !bot
<manualbot> Hi! I'm ubottu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins
<daker> ubuntujenkins, for the \n we should see here http://irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/rfc.html
<ubuntujenkins> in some of th efactoids we could end up flooding the channel if we put stuff on new lines
<daker> !disks
<manualbot> For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/switching/installing-partitioning.html - For partitioning programs see !GParted, !QtParted (!Kubuntu 8.10 and lower) or !PartitionManager (!Kubuntu 9.04 and up) - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot is http://quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org','Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future. \n It is written in Python and uses Glade for the us
<ubuntujenkins> er interface.'
 * ubuntujenkins wonders when dutchie will be back from oggcamp
<ubuntujenkins> ?hello
<ubuntujenkins> +hello
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
<ubuntujenkins> +bot
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "bot" is not a valid command.
<ubuntujenkins> +bot | ubuntujenkins]
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: Spurious "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
<ubuntujenkins> +bot | ubuntujenkins
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "bot" is not a valid command.
<ubuntujenkins> +bot > ubuntujenkins
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: Error: "bot" is not a valid command.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, move here #quickshot
<c7p> wth
<c7p> i don't have evolution under Applications >> Internet but >> Office
<c7p> do you ?
<ubuntujenkins> office for me to c7p
<c7p> so the string 635 should be corrected ( https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/635/+translate )
<ubuntujenkins> yes c7p it should
<ubuntujenkins> +quickshot
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: "quickshot" could be Quickshot is a python application designed to make it easy for all users to capture translated screenshots using an intuitive and semi-automated step-by-step process. Its principal use is with the Ubuntu Manual Project but it will also support configuration and customization for other projects in the near future.
<ubuntujenkins> +blueprints
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: "blueprints" could be https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quickshot register plans for Quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> +ChannelStats
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: On #ubuntu-manual there have been 1 messages, containing 0 characters, 0 words, 0 smileys, and 0 frowns; 0 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 0 joins, 1 part, 0 quits, 0 kicks, 0 mode changes, and 0 topic changes.
<ubuntujenkins> +seen godbyk
<quickshotbot> ubuntujenkins: I have not seen godbyk.
<ubuntujenkins> night all
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-26
<ChrisWoollard> Evening rickfosb
<ChrisWoollard> Ahhh, the soothing music...
<rickfosb> Good evening Chris... was in the other room
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<rickfosb> (technically, still doing the 'day job')
<ChrisWoollard> Ahh. What was the day job again?
<rickfosb> AT&T..  Data analysis - productivity, headcount and volumes
<rickfosb> counting widgets
<ChrisWoollard> Aren't widgets those things that go in beer cans
<rickfosb> :) those too!
<ChrisWoollard> incidentally the bzr-stats package is what can give a list of contributors.
<rickfosb> Would that get a minimal list of contributors, then?
<rickfosb> for inclusion, i mean
<ChrisWoollard> maybe. i need to play to see what it gives me
<ChrisWoollard> i am not sure if it deals with translators
<rickfosb> ok;  I'll be interested in what you get.  I was looking at running 'spell' on the tex files in a batch... that proved to be not so helpful  :)
<rickfosb> Its real good at ignoring the non alpha stuff in the latex tags, but then finds a latex tag and thinks its misspelled.
<ChrisWoollard> are you trying to spell check
<rickfosb> Though I might run a real quick look and get the easy spelling stuff out of the .tex files
<rickfosb> yes
<ChrisWoollard> i usually use vim as my editor. It has a spell check option
<ChrisWoollard> :set spell
<rickfosb> I bounce back and forth; vi to gedit
<ChrisWoollard> it highlights incorrect spellings
<rickfosb> I'll try vim;  I'm more of an old time unix user when it comes to that.... love the global search and replace, etc.
<rickfosb> ok; stepping away for a while.  Have a great evening.  check you later
<ChrisWoollard> ok
<ChrisWoollard> laters
<rickfosb> :)
<godbyk> There's a spellcheck.py script in the lucid-e1 repository that may be helpful.
<godbyk> Also try "aspell -t blah.tex"
<godbyk> It'll filter out the TeX commands and spell-check only the content.
<rickfosb> Thanks!
<ChrisWoollard> evening godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, ChrisWoollard. How was your holiday?
<ChrisWoollard> i mean lovely thanks
<godbyk> Hey, rickfosb. How are things going?
<rickfosb> godbyk; going well.  just working... :) i just came back in here to restart empathy..  I lost the contact list and was not sure how to raise it (natty)
<godbyk> Ah, well, I'll let you get back to it then. :)
<rickfosb> seeing the talk about  different versions (kindle, etc)  Sounds like some fun... using the tex files to build lots of usable output!
<godbyk> Yeah, I'd love to get some different output formats going (for e-readers, HTML, etc.).
<godbyk> Unfortunately, LaTeX seems to not be the best source format for all of those.
<rickfosb> (ipad) hehe
<ChrisWoollard> Motorola Xoom ;)
<godbyk> I've not had much luck with the LaTeX-to-HTML tools.
<rickfosb> I like latex so far;  I'm just thinking with the right additions to our makefile, we might get some real leverage ..
<godbyk> I've been meaning to play with Docbook â LaTeX â PDF and Docbook â HTML chains, but haven't had the time yet.
<rickfosb> would also like to be able to build by chapter... for ease of editing, etc.,   I'm reviewing my old Make books...brushing up...
<rickfosb> (in my spare time)  ha
<ChrisWoollard> Kevin, should i mention what Kyle did ;)
<godbyk> rickfosb: To build an individual chapter, you could edit the main.tex file, and add \includeonly{x,y,z} before \begin{document}
<godbyk> where x,y,z is a list of documents to include. all other \include's will be ignored.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: <shudder>
<rickfosb> ahhh. ok
<rickfosb> ChrisWollard: dotell
<godbyk> rickfosb: He wrote a huge set of shell scripts that convert docbook documents to PDF using Apache's FOP.
<godbyk> rickfosb: Each chapter is its own standalone document.
<godbyk> rickfosb: But then they get mashed together to form a book (of sorts).
<ChrisWoollard> each chapter  in its own branch
<rickfosb> godbyk; indexing, page numbering???  must have been a btch
<godbyk> Oh, yeah, and that.  Their project has an order of magnitude fewer contributors than ours, but he thought it'd be best if they went with one chapter per bzr branch.
<godbyk> So you have to check out over half a dozen branches to build the complete book.
<ChrisWoollard> I have not heard anything from them in weeks
<rickfosb> no thanks
<godbyk> rickfosb: I don't think they have any indexing yet.  Not sure how page numbering is handled.
<ChrisWoollard> Also, it has not been updated in 6/7 weeks
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I haven't heard from them in eons either.  They seemed pretty content to go their own way.  I don't have time to learn Apache FOP, so I can't be of much help.
<rickfosb> godbyk: what's the project name?
<godbyk> rickfosb: The Ubuntu Developers' Manual.
<rickfosb> geeez
<godbyk> rickfosb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/DeveloperManual/
<ChrisWoollard> They used our toolchain first
<rickfosb> ok, my meeting minder's going off...  I'll be back in an hour.. See you two.  (thanks for the link godbyk)
<ChrisWoollard> Then converted the whole lot to docbook
<godbyk> I think that the "translation-credits" text in the credits.tex file should automatically be replaced by Launchpad during the translation process with a list of translators who contributed.
<godbyk> But I've never tried it before.
<ChrisWoollard> I was about to have a look at that
<godbyk> I also want to look into using the Ubuntu font as the sans serif font in the new edition.  I have to check the language support and whatnot first, though, and probably adjust some font sizes.
<ChrisWoollard> nice
<rickfosb> \quit
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-27
<JasonO> Am I here?
<jenkins1> Andre_Gondim: ping
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins1, pong
<jenkins1> Andre_Gondim: I am confused why you are taking more screenshots they were completed ages ago if i recall correctly
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins1, here http://flan.uguu.ca:5000/ump/10-04 it's needing screenshots, no?
<jenkins1> just check lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/pt_BR there is 48 in there and should be all you need for lucid-e1
<jenkins1> I think I mentioned it to you on irc
<Andre_Gondim> hmmmmmmmmm let me try do make a ubuntu in pt_BR
<jenkins1> you will need to copy the screen shots in  lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/pt_BR  into the main manul branch
<jenkins1> The rason it shows somw still need doing is because some screenshots were taken on the old server
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins1, let me try to explain to you
<Andre_Gondim> I did bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<jenkins1> yep
<Andre_Gondim> ls -l lucid-e1/screenshots/en/ | wc -l
<Andre_Gondim> returns to me 58, and no 48 as you said
<jenkins1> one moment just getting the branch a
<Andre_Gondim> ok
<jenkins1> wow how big is lucid these days. Still waiting
<jenkins1> Andre_Gondim: may be your terminal skills are better than mine can you create a list of files that are different? I can find 7 screenshots in the en folder that are either universal or unused
<Andre_Gondim> yeah, just a moment
<jenkins1> I make it 57 and 48 and 9 files extra and they are either common or not needed
<Andre_Gondim> 01-ubuntu-login.png 01-wubi.png 03-wired-network.png 08-grub-boot-screen.png  help-and-network.png  megan.png  root-directories.png  root-directories.svg window-borders.png
<Andre_Gondim> jenkins1, this is the diff between en and pt_BR
<jenkins1> yep thats fine 01-ubuntu-login.png is common, 01-wubi.png common, 03-wired-network.png common, 08-grub-boot-screen.png common,  help-and-network.png unused,  megan.png unused,  root-directories.png common,  root-directories.svg common, window-borders.png unused
<jenkins1> you may have to copy them to the pt_br folder
<Andre_Gondim> ok
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-01
<dan__> .
<dan__> hello?
<godbyk> Hey, rickfosb.  Something I forgot to mention when you're testing your stripped down makefile is that you need to remove all the auxiliary files between each test.
<godbyk> rickfosb: I think "rm -f *.{aux,log,dvi,pdf,out,toc,glo,idx,bbl,blg}" will catch them all, but I might have missed a couple.
<rickfosb> godbyk -- probably did not do make clean; make  each time... haven't played with it for a day or so
<rickfosb> is that enought? or do we need the rm
<godbyk> I'm worrking on fixing some bugs dealing with translations of the lucid-e2 branch and that thought just struck me.  Figured I'd best let you know before I forgot about it again. :)
<godbyk> I'm pretty confident that 'make clean' will rm all those files.
<godbyk> The command I gave you is one I have aliased to 'texclean' on my system since I'm always fiddling with tex files.
<rickfosb> no problem;  If we were to make changes to the makefile..., they would get a commit and push correct??
<godbyk> Yep.
<rickfosb> ok, I'll copy that string
<rickfosb> I'd want us to test the changes thoroughly   before we start changing the build process :)
<godbyk> Yeah. At some point I'd broken the lucid-e2 Makefile. I don't recall if it was just on my system or if it was the repositories copy. It's been working okay for me lately, so I'll pretend it's all good. :-)
<rickfosb> smile
<rickfosb> been there.  Broke a major makefile onetime using a non-vi text editor that repaced all the tabs....   I thought I was going to have to fire someone (myself included)  :))
<godbyk> heh.
<rickfosb> (now I have a love hate relationship with backup/restore)
<godbyk> I really should have a more stringent (read: any sort of) backup policy.
<godbyk> As it is, I end up just manually copying files about if I think they're important. Or relying on my source control systems for that.
<rickfosb> I use a 16 gig memory stick, primarily to make a copy of my most important working files for 'work'... probably need to do a better job of saving files from the Natty box though.
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: any chance adding the basic bzr commands (branch, pull, merge, commit, push) and best practices (backup) to Author/Editor pages on ubuntu-manual.org?
<rickfosb> yea, i'll talk with c7p about that off line..  (sending myself a note)
<godbyk> I'd also like to add those to the style guide at some point.
<CrustyBarnacle> cool!
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Meeting agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-April-Meeting2 | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<ChrisWoollard> rickfosb. The Style Guide is a bzr project, so you could add that.
<rickfosb> I'll pull that down.  thanks ChrisWoollard
<ChrisWoollard> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-of-style
<rickfosb> CrustyBarnacle: we do have a work in progress document for the bzr terminal commands: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LDAyOVGMOLvsMTef3dTE3zt9q-gQY_-NetMKfZ6yM2Q/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLynx-cH
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: looks good
<rickfosb> CrustyBarnacle:  Like a said a work in progress.  godbyk wrote the document; we could make it the source for a document on the manual site if needed.
<ChrisWoollard> brb
 * ChrisWoollard looks for a power cable
 * ChrisWoollard is back
<ChrisWoollard> evening c7p
<hannie> hi ChrisWoollard and c7p
<ChrisWoollard> hello hannie
<hannie> ChrisWoollard, hoe gaat het ? Long time no see
<c7p1> hello all, sorry for being late
<CrustyBarnacle> Howdy
<godbyk> Someone holler at me whenever we're ready to start.
<rickfosb> godbyk; go when you're ready
<ChrisWoollard> Ik ben goed
<godbyk> 'kay. Gimme just a sec.
<ChrisWoollard> how gaat het met jou?
<ChrisWoollard> s/how/hoe
<ChrisWoollard> ;)
<hannie> ChrisWoollard, fantastisch / fantastic (lots of work to do ;))
<godbyk> Okay, now that JasonO's here, we can get started. :-P
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:08. The chair is godbyk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Screenshot resolution update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Screenshot resolution update
<godbyk> c7p1?
<JasonO> Hello everyone.
<c7p1> yeah, actually this agenda item is from the previous meeting agenda
<godbyk> Oh, the meeting agenda is at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-April-Meeting2 for anyone who wants to follow along.
<hannie> Hello JasonO
<godbyk> c7p1: We're off to a good start, then! :-)
<JasonO> Hi hannie
<godbyk> c7p1: Is there anything that needs to be discussed at this meeting about screenshot resolutions then?
<c7p1> you had a conversation about the screenshot size, and there were some members of the team that wanted to check 800X600 resolutions vs the current
<rickfosb> c7p1: Did we determine to leave the resolution 'as is' in the current manual?
<godbyk> Another option might be to restrict the width of the screenshots to the main text block width (instead of the full page width).
<ChrisWoollard> I believe current is 1024x768
<CrustyBarnacle> godbyk: Agreed
<rickfosb> I took a look at a couple of images and I think either would work; so if restricting to main text block width is the way to go..., then no changes?
 * IlyaHaykinson waves
<c7p1> i guess so, if there aren't any disagreements
<c7p1> hey Ilya :)
<godbyk> I can build the maverick manual with screenshots thave a max width of the text block so we can see what it looks like.  I'll do that after the meeting and email a link (or add it to the minutes).
<godbyk> Hey, Ilya.
<rickfosb> godbyk: thanks.
<CrustyBarnacle> godbyk: sounds great, thanks.
<godbyk> Okey doke.
<rickfosb> moving on?
<godbyk> Anything else to say on screenshot resolution/size?
<c7p1> not from me
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick edition: What's left to do?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick edition: What's left to do?
<godbyk> rickfosb?
<rickfosb> The next few were originally mine.  I wanted to try to wrap up 10.10 so that the translations teams can begin work.
<ChrisWoollard> I am editting prefs-hardware at the moment ;)
<rickfosb> So, question is.   What's left to do so we can determine a 'freeze'..
<CrustyBarnacle> Any editing left to do without owners?
<rickfosb> And,  I'm working my way through the document, but you guys have a good handle on most of it.
<godbyk> I think at this point we're down to just some copy editing.
<hannie> rickfosb, do you know if there are translation teams that are going to translate maverick?
<rickfosb> Agreed.
<godbyk> And copy editing could continue on forever, so we should probably just set a (reasonable) cut-off date.
<rickfosb> I've gotten some unofficial requests
<ChrisWoollard> Should we set a deadline?
<rickfosb> ChrisWoollard: I think we should draw a line in the sand and try for a cut off.
<rickfosb> Is 30 days too soon?
<rickfosb> or too much :)
<ChrisWoollard> is sooner possible?
<ChrisWoollard> i.e. 1 or 2 weeks?
<godbyk> How does two weeks sound?
<rickfosb> I'm ok with two weeks.
<IlyaHaykinson> i think the maverick version is pretty good now; i think two weeks is decent.
<godbyk> Okay. We'll set a string freeze date for 15 May, then.
<ChrisWoollard> How about just before the next meeting
<godbyk> Any objections?
<c7p1> ChrisWoollard: +1
<ChrisWoollard> so it is frozen going into the meeting
<godbyk> I'll set it for 14 May, then in case our meeting lands on the Saturday.
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<godbyk> [ACTION] Maverick edition string freeze is 14 May.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Maverick edition string freeze is 14 May.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Maverick edition: Should we leave Lucid edition credits or only include people that have worked on Maverick?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick edition: Should we leave Lucid edition credits or only include people that have worked on Maverick?
<ChrisWoollard> Ok
<CrustyBarnacle> Maverick content is mostly/all based on Lucid, yes?
<ChrisWoollard> is was reviewing the credits. I wondered if you should only include people that have worked on maverick or eveybody
<ChrisWoollard> s/is/i
<rickfosb> You guys would know how much has changed from lucid..   I would add the folks who've worked and leave the Lucid folks in.
<ChrisWoollard> I would say the authors section is the same
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: Agreed
<ChrisWoollard> but translators / editors will be different
<godbyk> I think the bulk of the original authors' work has remained.
<godbyk> And I agree that the translators and editors may be different.
<ChrisWoollard> Also what about the top section.
<ChrisWoollard> That has had a few changes
<ChrisWoollard> the top section is the one with Lead Tex / Project Lead etc in it
<godbyk> For the translators section, instead of listing all the translators from every language, I think we should list the translation editors and then list the individual translators in their translated edition.
<IlyaHaykinson> why not have a "Current edition" credits section, and a "All contributors" section?
<godbyk> (Otherwise the translators list will be huge.)
<c7p1> godbyk: +1
<IlyaHaykinson> so anyone who ends up helping out in the current version goes in there, with the correct roles etc
<IlyaHaykinson> and otherwise, people drop and remain forever in the All contributors section
<CrustyBarnacle> Sounds good
<godbyk> One question I have (that we'll have to address at some point) is when do people fall off the credits list (if ever)?
<rickfosb> good question
<IlyaHaykinson> i would say they don't, unless their content is definitely not used any longer
<rickfosb> Significant rewrite I would say
<IlyaHaykinson> which is hard to prove
<rickfosb> yes
<ChrisWoollard> That is difficult as we don't know what each has done
<IlyaHaykinson> so make the font smaller, if we run out of room, or add a page, etc
<IlyaHaykinson> oh. i say just list everyone in the past as a "contributor", without a role.
<rickfosb> (The credits will start to look like the opening scene of Star Wars)  :-)
<c7p1> we can have two credit sections something like: Previous contributors ... Current Manual Main Contributors
<godbyk> rickfosb: Or the closing credits of Star Wars!
<rickfosb> (both!  hah)
<hannie> the All contributors section will be huge
<ChrisWoollard> More like the credits of a pixar film
<c7p1> lol
<rickfosb> sorry i mentioned it :-)
<ChrisWoollard> So, can somebody summerise what we plan is?
<rickfosb> What about a two year rolling window... stay in for two years and then move to the 'all' list?  or is that difficult to maintain
<godbyk> So we want to have the current contributors at the top (with roles/titles) and the past contributors below (names only)?  And we'll list the individual translators in their translated edition only.  Translation editors can be listed in the English edition, though, I think.
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: So, does anyone ever fall off?
<rickfosb> (four years,,, without further contribuitions, you could fall off)
<rickfosb> ?
<c7p1> since we use Creative Commons AttributionâShare Alike License we can't remove previous authors. We can do so only if there is no material that they wrote right ?
<hannie> Who is responsible for the Contributors pages?
<c7p1> godbyk: sound good
<godbyk> c7p1: Right.
<godbyk> hannie: Whoever we can sucker into maintaining it. :)
<godbyk> hannie: Ostensibly, that's one of the responsibilities that rickfosb holds as editor in chief.
<ChrisWoollard> No idea. I was looking at it, hence why i brought it up
<hannie> it 'll be quite a job
<godbyk> But we'll have to help out right now as there's some history we have to take care of.
<rickfosb> OK; I didn't assign it... was afraid toooooooo
<ChrisWoollard> lol
<c7p1> hopefully we have the doc with all authors and editors so the contributors page will be a matter of copy n paste :)
<rickfosb> I'll take it on.  And we'll figure out a format for keeping the license happy
<ChrisWoollard> I will make some changes to it
<ChrisWoollard> then we can review
<godbyk> I'm happy to reformat the credits, too.
<rickfosb> (Thanks.,  I don't have the 'history')
<godbyk> We don't have to keep the same formatting (with the section headings, contributor roles, etc.)
<ChrisWoollard> Does that mean Rock, Paper ,Scissors
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'll let you dive into it.  You can holler at me if you want help with formatting/layout.
<rickfosb> lizard, Spock
<ChrisWoollard> ok
<rickfosb> Will do.
<godbyk> Going forward, we should try to be a bit better about tracking contributions.
<c7p1> agreed
<ChrisWoollard> I also feel like listing the contributors alphabeticllly
<rickfosb> I'm sorting my email that way at the moment.... just so I can remind myself who asked for what.
<rickfosb> ChrisWoolard: agree with Alpah
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I think I had them listed alphabetically at one point (excluding the leader roles).
<rickfosb> *Alpha
<godbyk> That ordering may have been mangled as more names were added, though.
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk, i have a script that gets a list of contributors from bzr
<hannie> ChrisWoollard, you mean alphabetic order within the sections?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: That's a good start.  Though we have had some authors and editors in the past who didn't commit directly to bzr.
<ChrisWoollard> Comitters at least
<ChrisWoollard> hannie, yes
<godbyk> They'd submit their work to the chapter editor and let the editor deal with it.
<rickfosb> Script?!?!  its a SCORECARD :-)
<godbyk> rickfosb: Ha!  So far, ChrisWoollard is winning.  We'll have to fix that!
<ChrisWoollard> True, but it wasn't planning on indicating the scores, hense alphabetiacal
<rickfosb> from now on, I fix one word at a time
<rickfosb> (kidding)
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> Okay, anything else we need to talk about wrt credits?
<ChrisWoollard> that was just luck. i only found out how to do that last week
<ChrisWoollard> nope
<rickfosb> I'm done
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Natty edition: Chapter assignments
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty edition: Chapter assignments
<godbyk> rickfosb?
<rickfosb> I've made assignments; Usually following up with an email to the folks involved.  They are on the Authors and Editors pages.  Do we need discussion?
<rickfosb> Assume, we'll probably break big chapters up as needed.
<rickfosb> here:https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ar0Z6vOO38EydERxaWhGTkU2NTVDU2pxYXNHWWR1MlE&hl=en#gid=0
<godbyk> rickfosb: Do we need more authors/editors for any chapters?
<godbyk> Or do we have good coverage?
<IlyaHaykinson> in Lucid days, we had something like 80% of assigned people not contribute or contribute very minimally
<rickfosb> Not having prior experience in the manual; I'm pressed to say.  I suspect its the desktop sections that will need the most Authoring.
<rickfosb> (Suspected that as well)
<IlyaHaykinson> possibly because we didn't make the responsibility stick
<IlyaHaykinson> so people felt ok not checking in
<IlyaHaykinson> (including chapter editors)
<IlyaHaykinson> which created a dilemma -- do we encourage the people to contribute (give them more time and chances), or yank the responsibility away and reassign
<godbyk> Would it be helpful to request/require regular status updates?
<rickfosb> If we put a tentative time line out there today, then I will begin an email campaign...  gently
<rickfosb> I'll be talking with each; if someone drops out, I should know early enough
<godbyk> I wonder if it'd be useful to show some sort of graphical visualization that indicated which chapters were actively being worked on in the past (say) week.
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: probably regular status updates could help. but perhaps more importantly, we need to clearly outline what happens if they don't contribute
<IlyaHaykinson> so that there are no surprises
<rickfosb> godbyk: that would be a great graphic!!! from bzr stats?
<IlyaHaykinson> so like, if the chapter isn't making progress and we don't get a status update, we'll consider an author/editor no longer active and find someone else
<IlyaHaykinson> i also had a LOT of authors last time who refused/couldn't learn bzr
<CrustyBarnacle> Agreed
<godbyk> rickfosb: Yeah. I'm not sure if something like that exists or not, but it'd be interesting to see.
<IlyaHaykinson> so i told them to contribute by text file emailed to me
<IlyaHaykinson> even that didn't really work
<rickfosb> I'd make that call at some point (no longer active) but its volunteer;  i'll give them as much rope as I can afford.
<CrustyBarnacle> IlyaHaykinson: sounds painful
<hannie> I like the idea of a graphical status overview
<godbyk> We could also offer some bzr training (and latex training, etc.) if authors and editors are interested.
<IlyaHaykinson> rickfosb: nod, i think if you're actively keeping an eye on each section's progress, we'll be ok.
<rickfosb> so, to the next bullet: how long does this 'normally' take
<IlyaHaykinson> it depends on how much needs to get written, right?
<IlyaHaykinson> Around the Desktop will get completely gutted and redone
<IlyaHaykinson> a few apps changed
<rickfosb> all: this is a release that's getting a lot of press (some bad).  I'd like to have a manual out there sooner rather than later.
<IlyaHaykinson> but probably 80% of the manual is still as-is
<rickfosb> 80% agreed as is
<rickfosb> So we freeze 10.10.. and push hard on the 20% of 11.04
<IlyaHaykinson> my gut feeling for timeline is 10 weeks for active copywriting
<godbyk> rickfosb: Interestingly, the docs team is in the same boat as us.  They're scrambling to get content written, too.
<IlyaHaykinson> then 2-3 weeks for copyedit/screenshots
<rickfosb> 90 days minimum - 120 max...
<rickfosb> ?
<rickfosb> I'm going to need a longer whip.  ;-)
<CrustyBarnacle> Can we set a review (alpha?) about 6-8wks out to gauge the progress?
<hannie> How many authors are present at the moment?
<IlyaHaykinson> yeah, it helped a lot, i think, to have milestones last time
<c7p1> we may let authors to tell their opinion
<CrustyBarnacle> author/editor
<godbyk> I think the milestones were helpful as it forced everyone to come together for a soft deadline so we could assess our progress.
<rickfosb> The two that have specifically asked for Desktop are Chen Lang and Dan Pullan... don't see them here?
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Natty edition: Timeline
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty edition: Timeline
<rickfosb> I'll reach out to them tonight and ask for an initial content soft target(alpha)  of 4 to 6 weeks and see if they freak
 * godbyk isn't keeping up with the topics. MootBot will be angry!
<IlyaHaykinson> i recommend something like: M1 -- lock down what needs to change, M2 -- all sections are in, at least with stub content, M3 -- copywriting down, M4 -- content freeze (copyediting / screenshots done), M5 -- release (final bug testing done)
<godbyk> That'll allow translations to commence at M4.
<rickfosb> IlyaHaykinson: I like that.
<IlyaHaykinson> i would decouple M5 from translation release
<IlyaHaykinson> translations can commence at M4, but if they want to minimize change, they could wait for M5
<IlyaHaykinson> last time we had a lot of angry translators
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Right. Translations are asynchronous with the English edition release cycle.
<rickfosb> I've told some to standby until we get the branch built.  that's M0?
<c7p1> IlyaHaykinson: yeah the bug tracking/fixing is a problem for translations, so M5 for translations
<godbyk> That's true.
<IlyaHaykinson> we could also switch to a better translation tool
<IlyaHaykinson> there was that open source one... poodle?
<IlyaHaykinson> or soemthing
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Any suggestions?  I don't know enough about our options, but our current tools are not so great.
<IlyaHaykinson> pootle
<godbyk> I think Poodle's roughly equivalent to Launchpad/Rosetta.
<godbyk> I'm not sure if it can handle our long strings any better.
<hannie> May I ask what "M" means?
<godbyk> hannie: M = Milestone.
<godbyk> hannie: M1 = first milestone, M2 = second milestone, etc.
<hannie> godbyk, thanks
<godbyk> Did we settle the timeline questions, then?
<rickfosb> I have some milestone identified; I have the first alpha at 4 to 6 or 8 weeks.. I'll get that posted and begin working with content authors/ editors
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: M5  then is 90-120 days out from M0?
<IlyaHaykinson> i would propose M0 = right after maverick release
<godbyk> CrustyBarnacle: Yeah.
<IlyaHaykinson> M1 = 1 week
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Agreed.
<rickfosb> CrustyBarnacle: I hate time frame, but yes
<IlyaHaykinson> M2 = week 5
<IlyaHaykinson> M3 = week 10
<IlyaHaykinson> M4 = week 13
<IlyaHaykinson> M5 = week 15
<godbyk> I'll base the natty branch on the maverick branch. So I'd like to wait until maverick is as finalized as possible (so we don't have to port bug fixes from maverick to natty).
<rickfosb> Yes; M0 should be after the freeze and that was when?
<rickfosb> scrolling....
<godbyk> rickfosb: We can always shorten the time frame if the content gets written more quickly. :)
<godbyk> rickfosb: Maverick string freeze is 14 May.
<rickfosb> Right! 14 May
<CrustyBarnacle> action on that?
<rickfosb> M0 no later than 21 May
<hannie> Is there a lot of difference between Lucid and Maverick?
<godbyk> hannie: Not too much.
<ChrisWoollard> The installation chapter was re-written
<ChrisWoollard> Plus shotwell was added
<rickfosb> Question:  Is Natty still too big for CD or was that fixed?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Might be handy to look at the maverick bzr logs and note which chapters changed the most from lucid-e2.  Could be helpful to the translators.
<ChrisWoollard> Its predecessor was removed. Whatever that was
<c7p1> actually authors can start working from now, natty is out. They can start writing content and when branch is up they can go on working with branches and other authors, right ?
<rickfosb> (Installation section)
<rickfosb> c7p1: agree, I'll suggest that to the desktop team
<hannie> We can use podiff
<IlyaHaykinson> ChrisWoollard: this only works for totally new sections.
<godbyk> hannie: We can certainly give it a shot. I've never tried podiff.
<IlyaHaykinson> er, c7p1
<godbyk> Moving right along...
<godbyk> [TOPIC] E-book formats
<MootBot> New Topic:  E-book formats
<godbyk> We've had a few requests for alternative formats.
<ChrisWoollard> Who was trying to get a Kindle version?
<godbyk> These formats include web-based (HTML), a more accessible PDF, Kindle, Nook, and other e-book reader formats.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I've had 2-3 people ask about a Kindle edition.
<hannie> Has there ever been a survey on the use of certain formats?
<IlyaHaykinson> why doesn't the current PDF work on the kindle?
<IlyaHaykinson> i guess i can go check it out...
<godbyk> For the non-PDF formats, our best bet would be to use a different source format (such as Docbook) that allows conversion to multiple output formats.
<ChrisWoollard> No idea, i don't have a kindle
<godbyk> For the PDF formats, I can design the book to fit onto different screen sizes.
<rickfosb> At the risk of being shunned..., ipad release
<ChrisWoollard> Kindle can open .mobi
<CrustyBarnacle> IlyaHaykinson: thought I'd heard it was badly formatted (flow?) on the kindle.
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, let me go test it
<rickfosb> I can read pdf on the ipad;  seems clean.
<godbyk> I *think* the Kindle tries to scale the entire PDF page to the screen, which makes the text too small to be readable.
<godbyk> But I haven't tried it myself.
<rickfosb> godbyk: the request came from someone who was considering tinkering with the build?
<godbyk> rickfosb: I think the person who had suggested the tex4ht build option was different from the requester.
<rickfosb> godbyk: All: sorry, i'm behind your comments... disregard
<godbyk> rickfosb: Ah, 'kay. :)
<c7p1> hm https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg02556.html
<rickfosb> Action?
<godbyk> c7p1: The 'Simple Guide' he refers to uses OpenOffice.org as the source format.
<ChrisWoollard> So..... That was what i was going to say
<ChrisWoollard> Are we going to look at other versions for natty or natty+1
<ChrisWoollard> i.e epub / mobi etc
<godbyk> I'd really like to look at other formats, yeah.
<rickfosb> My view would be that IF we could make it transparent to our Author/Editor teams... then I'm ok.
<godbyk> I think that ultimately, we'll have to switch source formats, though. So that'll probably be something to hold off on until natty+1.
<c7p1> yes but on the last mail he says that he will research the whole thing (learn to use Latex etc)
<rickfosb> Especially if we can tweak our build so that it builds the new formats when requested
<CrustyBarnacle> action to push out to natty+1?
<rickfosb> Otherwise, I would suggest that we look at other formats for LTS releases?
<godbyk> rickfosb: Well, we'd probably be switching the source format and that would affect the authors/editors.  The build aspect would be transparent, though (aside from ensuring that the proper tools have been installed).
<IlyaHaykinson> i think that any format change is probably too late to do now.
<IlyaHaykinson> unless we think we can make the change in 3 weeks.
<rickfosb> IlyaHaykinson: agree
<IlyaHaykinson> otherwise, we risk having a serious delay on the natty manual as we fight with the new tools.
<c7p1> + the documentation that is needed for authors/editors
<ChrisWoollard> hence why we said natty+1
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I agree.  I think we should hold off on the format change until natty+1 so we have time to work out the issues and ensure a smooth transition.
<ChrisWoollard> natty+1 = oneric ocelot
<godbyk> Having said all that, if I can generate a PDF that's more friendly to e-book readers and tablets, I'm willing to give that a try for natty.
<rickfosb> and I thought narwhal was going to be difficult :))
<godbyk> rickfosb: If you had any idea of the sorts of blue-sky plans we have... ;-)
<rickfosb> I'm thinking we put it out on the ibooks store... that's blue sky.... ha
<godbyk> Another format request I had was for a large-print edition.  (I think this request was from someone on the Lithuanian translation team.)
<godbyk> And that's something I'm willing to tackle.
<c7p1> that's the guru
<rickfosb> What constitutes large format?  Font size? Font Type? something else?
<godbyk> rickfosb: Font size mostly.
<rickfosb> kay
<godbyk> The page layout will need to be adjusted a bit, too.
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Natty edition: Prologue introduction section
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty edition: Prologue introduction section
<godbyk> This topic was proposed by piratemurray.
<rickfosb> I read his request;  I also read the prologue this week.  Not sure what would need to be added??
<godbyk> He asks: How much of a rewrite do you want? Was thinking it is pretty good as is and will update for new happenings in Natty only. Thoughts on this?
<ChrisWoollard> I am fairly sure this chapter was editted a long time ago
<rickfosb> ChrisWoolard: agree, could not find any copy edits.
<ChrisWoollard> I am also fairly sure it was me that did it ;)
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, just tested on my kindle
<IlyaHaykinson> the document looks good, but it certainly isn't optimal in terms of font size
<IlyaHaykinson> everything is readable with good eyesight, including margins
<IlyaHaykinson> and you can zoom
<IlyaHaykinson> but that's not the normal kindle experience where you can easily control font sizing
<IlyaHaykinson> still, we could fix this by increasing the font size a lot (2-3 times the current point size)
<rickfosb> Do the margins need to stay?  It's a lot of real estate to pay homage to the 'print' world?  Just asking?
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: I've got a couple articles about using LaTeX to generate Kindle PDFs. I may play with it a bit and send you some PDFs to test out.
<ChrisWoollard> http://kindleformatting.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kindleformatting.com/
<IlyaHaykinson> rickfosb: good point. the margins could become in-line boxes or something
<godbyk> rickfosb: For the e-book versions, we could certainly reduce the margins.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Thanks.
<godbyk> Is there anything else to say in regards to the prologue?
<rickfosb> Inline box might be worth looking into
<rickfosb> None here.
<godbyk> Okay.
<c7p1> yeah
<godbyk> rickfosb: Did we cover all your Natty milestone questions already?
<rickfosb> I'll take an Action item to discuss with the pirate
<rickfosb> Yes on Milestones
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Natty quick reference
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty quick reference
<godbyk> hannie?
<hannie> I was just wondering if we can add such a list to the manual
<hannie> a lot of things have moved to another place
<hannie> Maybe we can list the old location and the new one on one page
<godbyk> Is this 'transition guide' something that you think should exist in the manual or as a separate document?
<hannie> In the manual
<godbyk> Generally, I think our manual's target audience is for people who are new to Ubuntu.  I wouldn't want to confuse people by references old releases of Ubuntu if we can avoid it.
<godbyk> What does everyone else think?
<IlyaHaykinson> fyi -- here's our manual on the kindle: https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/IMG_20110501_141808.jpg?w=2c7ed2c7
<ChrisWoollard> Aren't quick reference guides usually seperate documents?
<rickfosb> I'm open to a Quick Reference page.  We'd need to determine what needs to be there.
<IlyaHaykinson> better link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4018722/IMG_20110501_141808.jpg
<hannie> I do not see why you could not make it part of the manual
<IlyaHaykinson> i think the quick reference page would be great
<hannie> But if there is no need for it, ok. It was just a suggestion
<IlyaHaykinson> given the "shortcuts" wallpaper recently featured all over, i think people clearly want one
<ChrisWoollard> Sounds more like an appendix to me
<hannie> ChrisWoollard, I would see it as another "chapter"
<hannie> or Index
<hannie> or appendix if you want
<c7p1> people can look for the info that they are looking for on the proper Chapter, for example for the Unity they can check the "Ubuntu Desktop" chapter
<hannie> but the point is, should we, or shouldn't we add it to the manual
<rickfosb> yea, see the desktop section says it all;  how to use ubuntu, where to get files, how to search... the new one will have to reference the dashboard...
<hannie> but then you do not have a quick overview
<rickfosb> So,...  while i'm open to a quick reference... i'm thinking an addendum?
<hannie> yes, addendum, appendix, whatever
<CrustyBarnacle> rickfosb: +1
<rickfosb> We used to get cardboard help sheets for everything from Excel to Unix... maybe a page of those hints?
<rickfosb> The most often needed 'clicks'
<hannie> that's the idea
<rickfosb> A sort of wheres my 'cheese' for natty
<ChrisWoollard> cheese is in the repo
<rickfosb> godbyk:  I'm thinking we get a page that could be http ready and include as a reference in the back?
<godbyk> rickfosb: We could do that, yeah.
<rickfosb> Hannie: do you want the role?
<godbyk> There are also existing 'introduction to unity' guides that have been recently posted online.
<hannie> rickfosb, I want to try
<rickfosb> Comes under the heading; be careful what you ask for... :))
<ChrisWoollard> jcastro wrote it i think?
<godbyk> Like this, for example: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/natty/
<rickfosb> yea, I'm thinking there are a couple out there... Benjamin had one too?
<godbyk> And another couple that were blog entries.
<ChrisWoollard> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
<hannie> rickfosb, let me do some research and I will send it to you, ok?
<rickfosb> yep;  Assuming we don't step on toes.
<JasonO> rickfosb that is Benjamin's.
<ChrisWoollard> but that is for powere users ;)
<rickfosb> hannie: perfect!
<godbyk> I think there was a link or two posted to the Ubuntu Docs mailing list recently, too.
<godbyk> Let me see if I can scare those up real quick.
<ChrisWoollard> scare?
<rickfosb> Josno0: thought so;  he was even working out the Copy issues.
<rickfosb> *Jason0
<ChrisWoollard> If is currently licensed as a CC Sharealike 2.5
<c7p1> godbyk:  this http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/natty/  ?
<godbyk> c7p1: I think that was one of 'em, yeah.
<godbyk> I'm not seeing the email. Maybe I imagined it. :)
<JasonO> What happened?
<godbyk> So the questions I have are:
<godbyk> 1. Do we want to write our own quick reference guide or just point to an existing one?
<JasonO> rickfosb Working on what?
<godbyk> 2. If we write our own, should it be part of the manual or a separate document?
<rickfosb> Jason0; copyright language in the post... to insure all could reprint... as is
<rickfosb> Jason0: seems like i have an email string on it somewhere.
<rickfosb> 1. take what's available, 2. addendum
<c7p1> 1) i don't see the need of this section since the "Contents" section of the manual has a list with all the subjects that are covered on every chapter 2) if we decide to create one i think it's better to keep it on a separate doc or online
<CrustyBarnacle> 2
<rickfosb> c7p1: I certainly want it on line
<rickfosb> (and assuming we have to 'print' at some point, we may elect to keep it out of the print version)
<rickfosb> one whole minute
<godbyk> I think that covers all the topics we had in the agenda.  Is there anything else anyone would like to bring up?
<ChrisWoollard> Are we getting anywhere? THis meeting is now 1 hour 4 mins
<ChrisWoollard> 40
<godbyk> [TOPIC] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<ChrisWoollard> How long should this meeting be?
<ChrisWoollard> :P
<rickfosb> Sorry folks I put a long agenda together, but got my questions answered!
<hannie> I had a meeting previous to this one which lasted 1 hour ;)
<godbyk> Our meetings usually run fairly long. :)
<godbyk> Okay, well, if there's nothing else pressing:
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:41.
<rickfosb> Thanks godbyk; job well done
<godbyk> Of course, you're all welcome to hang around and continue discussing things.
<ChrisWoollard> Thanks everybody
<hannie> See you all, bye
<CrustyBarnacle> Laters
<rickfosb> Question for anyone; CD vs USB install... is Natty small enough to load via CD
<rickfosb> I've been doing USB install for some time now.. and began to add text to the manual ...
<Teotw> there are ubuntu natty cd's so im guessing so ?
<IlyaHaykinson> CDs... those are those shiny plastic things that people used to use for coasters, right?
<rickfosb> OK; I recall that at one time, the image was too large
<c7p1> thank you all for coming :) good job godbyk
<Teotw> i think it's ok now, afaik
<rickfosb> They also make good throwing stars....
<JasonO> rickfosb I might want to be a writer. I will let you know.
<JasonO> JUst need Latex if that's what it's called?
<rickfosb> Jason0: great email to rickfosb@gmail.com or to the 'list' and i'll pick it up.
<JasonO> Alright.
<Teotw> rickfosb: nattys not in the canonical shop, so...perhaps it's not. Idk if it's an indicator or not
<IlyaHaykinson> ok folks, gonna go. bye
<godbyk> I think they should switch to DVD images instead, but I have cheap, plentiful bandwidth. <shrug>
<ChrisWoollard> bye
<rickfosb> OK; thinking we might need to rethink the install if teh live CD is really only a Live USB or DVD
<rickfosb> Thanks all!
<Teotw> liveusb is faster so people would benefit more from that..
<c7p1> ChrisWoollard: bye :)
<rickfosb> all:  bye
<godbyk> rickfosb: Their download page <http://www.ubuntu.com/download> says "CD".
<godbyk> for what it's worth.
<rickfosb> godbyk: got cha
<Teotw> so, did i miss the whole author assignment deal?
<JasonO> c7p1 Any adverts needed?
<godbyk> JasonO: I can't think of any yet, but we'll have some in a few weeks.
<JasonO> godbyk Thanks.
<godbyk> We have a string freeze on the maverick edition on 14 May, so we'll be releasing it soon after that.
<godbyk> Then we'll be frantically working on the natty edition.
<c7p1> JasonO: yes there aren't any, although it might be good if you could learn to use gimp or any other image manipulator program or even a video producer
<JasonO> c7p1 I know how to use Gimp.
<c7p1> neat then :)
<JasonO> And Istanbul.
<c7p1> bye all :)
<godbyk> G'bye, c7p1.
<j1mc> reading back through some of this conversation, if you are looking for great pdf output, there's nothing better than LaTeX.
<j1mc> unless you want to spend $1000 on Framemaker
<JasonO> By c7p1
<JasonO> *BYe
<j1mc> i know LaTeX is kind of a pain, though
<JasonO> *bye
<godbyk> j1mc: For generating PDFs, I'd probably stick with LaTeX.
<godbyk> The issue we were discussing was how to generate other (non-PDF) formats.  LaTeX isn't very good for that.
<j1mc> ah, ok
<j1mc> godbyk: are you familiar with pandoc?
<godbyk> So we'll probably want to switch to a different source format so we can get different output formats (like HTML, epub, etc.).
<godbyk> I'd still probably route it through LaTeX to generate PDFs, though.
<godbyk> j1mc: A bit.
<godbyk> Unfortunately, it doesn't truly understand LaTeX.  It only has a superficial understanding of it.
<godbyk> And we're doing some non-standard things, so pandoc chokes on our .tex files.
<j1mc> yeah, it is more to output to pdf via latex, not really to import from it
<godbyk> j1mc: Have you been using Mallard much yet?
<j1mc> yes, for the 11.04 help
<j1mc> there is no pdf or epub output for it now, though.
<godbyk> From earlier discussions with Shaun and the Ubuntu Docs team, I got the impression that Mallard was probably not the way to go for a linear book and that Docbook would be better.
<j1mc> just on-disk (rendered by yelp) and html
<godbyk> Does this jive with what you know of Mallard?
<j1mc> yes... you can kind of bend it to work well with a book, but it's not what it is designed for.
<godbyk> Well, if it's XML I could probably transform it to TeX relatively easily (with XSLT or a script).
<j1mc> yes, perhaps.  i'm sure Shaun would appreciate anyone who could look into that.
<godbyk> Mallard sounds great for topic-based help.
<j1mc> i need to step out
<j1mc> take it easy, godbyk
<godbyk> I've just been poking around to see what other formats are in use that could be easily translated to HTML, epub, TeX, etc.
<godbyk> j1mc: 'kay. See you later!
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-25
<tomswartz07> hey all
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-28
<hannie> hey c7p
<c7p> hey hannie
<c7p> what's up ?
<hannie> I am currently writing screenshot instructions
<hannie> nobody has shown up yet
<hannie> I'll continue playing with screenshots and writing instructions
<c7p> ok me too, i'm having something to do also but if someone pings me i'm available
<hannie> oki
<hannie> If there are no questions from authors, I'll go in a minute
<hannie> hi egy
<hannie> hi EgyParadox
<hannie> are you one of our authors?
<che> Hey guys
<EgyParadox> nope
<kereltis_> Just reading through my section again to see what needs to be done
 * c7p i'm afk, if anyone need something just ping me
<godbyk> I'm around now if anyone has any questions.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-29
<c7p> hey tomswartz07
<hannie> Hello everyone present in this channel
<c7p>    hello hannie
<hannie> hi c7p, sorry my presence is a bit different, CET = UTC + 2
<hannie> not +1 like I said before
<c7p> No worries nobody asked for help :-P
<c7p> The problem is there no feedback from authors on how they are doing
<hannie> perhaps later, when they have worked on their chapters
<hannie> We can ask via the mailing list if they have an interest in chatting
<c7p> Yap maybe that would help
<hannie> c7p, I plan to assign editors to chapters in the coming week
<hannie> hey stillnotcool
<stillnotcool> hey hannie
<c7p> Sounds good
<stillnotcool> great to see you here
<hannie> how are you doing?
<c7p> Hi
<stillnotcool> hannie: doing well.  I am working on a paper for school, but thought I would hang out here in case anyone needs help
<stillnotcool> hey c7p
<hannie> stillnotcool, I was just wondering if your chapter needs some screenshots
<stillnotcool> hannie: well, I wouldn't be against the idea
<stillnotcool> hannie: however, one of my favorite things about dealing with that chapter is not having to worry about screen shots!
<hannie> I will see if I can come with suggestions
<hannie> you do not have to worry about screenshots, I will do it if you agree on my choice
<stillnotcool> Because the chapter is less about doing something task-specific with Ubuntu, it doesn't lend itself to screenshots in quite the same way other chapters do
<hannie> fair enough
<stillnotcool> but, since I am going to add a few references to the Ubuntu Software Center in this revision
<stillnotcool> perhaps those sections could use some shots demonstrating the interface, etc.
<stillnotcool> we can chat about it when the content is finalized :)
<hannie> btw, have you seen the Unity poster for beginners?
<stillnotcool> no; where is it?
<hannie> Just a moment, I'll get the link
<hannie> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11872878#post11872878
<c7p_> Got to do sth. I ll be bacj in some mins
<hannie> http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/brochure/1204-poster
<hannie> c7p_, ok
<stillnotcool> this is pretty neat, hannie!
<hannie> yes, I like it too. Perhaps we can refer to it somewhere in the manual
<stillnotcool> I'm looking forward to finally installing 12.04 when final papers and exams are over
<hannie> ah, exams first of course
<stillnotcool> Yep.  Then play. :)
<hannie> I do not see that much difference yet
<stillnotcool> That's good!  An LTS should't make redical changes
<stillnotcool> er, radical
<hannie> godbyk, are you awake already?
 * godbyk is around now.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-23
<godbyk> Hey, CarstenG. Did you push your changes when you unshortened that URL?  It's still using the shortened URL in my version.
<cqfd93> Hi godbyk!
<cqfd93> CoqIdeu're talking about the link in the wine section, I think I unshortened it, but I forgot to push it
<godbyk> cqfd93: Yeah.
<godbyk> cqfd93: Ah, okay.
<godbyk> I knew Carsten and I had discussed it and decided to unshorten it.
<godbyk> I thought he had already done that, but I guess not.
<cqfd93> I'll do it now :-), sorry!
<godbyk> cqfd93: No worries!
<godbyk> There seems to be lots of other little issues with the Wine section, too, but I don't know if we'll have time to fix them all.
<godbyk> I'm going to try to finish up all the editing today so that I can publish the manual late tomorrow night (US/Central time).
<cqfd93> just pushed advanced-topics.tex
<godbyk> cqfd93: Thanks!
<cqfd93> A few days ago, Thomas said he would make a change in the Wine section, but I didi't see it
<godbyk> Yeah, I haven't seen it yet either.
<godbyk> I don't know enough about the state of Wine to make any substantial changes to the text.
<godbyk> But I will try to clean up the formatting.
<cqfd93> I don't know enough about wine either, I just use it for a couple of software that don't seem to use .net framework
<CarstenG> Hi Sylvie and Kevin.
<CarstenG> I did only mention that short URL on crocodoc, but did not change it.
<CarstenG> Thanks Sylvie, that you have done it. :-)
<cqfd93> Hi CarstenG
<CarstenG> Hi Sylvie
<cqfd93> when I saw
<cqfd93> oops!
<cqfd93> I fixed the url when I saw your note on crocodoc, but I forgot to push :-)
<cqfd93> is there anything else I can do to help finalizing the manual?
<CarstenG> :-)
<CarstenG> Well, I guess, reading and checking the information is always good. :-)
<cqfd93> :-)
<CarstenG> See you all, good night.
<cqfd93> good night!
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-25
<CarstenG> Hi together.
<cqfd93> Hi CarstenG!
<CarstenG> What is with our manual?
<CarstenG> Today is the great day :-)
<cqfd93> Yes!
<cqfd93> Is the manual supposed to be on the official release dvd?
<CarstenG> As far as I know, not.
<CarstenG> It is released separately on our website.
<cqfd93> Just asking, but it would be great :-)
<CarstenG> Yes, of course.
<godbyk> It doesn't get released on the DVD.
<godbyk> Just on our website and amazon.com, etc.
<godbyk> I'm working on releasing it as we speak.
<godbyk> So don't tell me about any more typos! ;-)
<CarstenG> We should try to get the next release in the official iso.
<cqfd93> hi godbyk!
<CarstenG> ah, I just saw rev 206
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring/revision/206 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring -r 206
<cqfd93> time to pull and make
<CarstenG> Kevin, we will find typos after the release ;-)
<cqfd93> sure!!!
<cqfd93> ;-)
<godbyk> We always do!
<cqfd93> When will the template ready for translation?
<cqfd93> *be ready
<godbyk> As soon as I've finished uploading these PDFs, I'll fix up the .tex files, generate the .pot file, and upload that.
<cqfd93> ok
<CarstenG> I think we should remove these \clearpages and [baselineskip] before generating the pot file.
<godbyk> CarstenG: That's what I meant about 'fix up the .tex files'. :)
<CarstenG> ah, ok :-)
<godbyk> Okay, I've uploaded the PDFs and updated the ubuntu-manual.org website.
<godbyk> I have to wait on CreateSpace to proof the book before I can update the 'Buy this book!' link.
<CarstenG> Nice :-)
<godbyk> While I wait on CreateSpace, I'll fix things up and upload the .pot file for the translators.
<godbyk> Then write a press release announcing the publication of the manual.
<CarstenG>  What did I say at 22:33?
<godbyk> Then write notes to translators so they can get started (assuming the .pot file doesn't get held up for some reason).
<CarstenG> ... I just found a typo in the index :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: I don't want to hear it! ;-)
<godbyk> Where's it at?
<CarstenG> Â»CDs and DVDsÂ« is twice.
<cqfd93> :-D
<godbyk> Ah, I see it.
<godbyk> Not a huge show-stopper, at least.
<CarstenG> and this Nautilus-->Files renaming looks bad in the index.
<CarstenG> We have Â»FilesÂ«, Â»filesÂ« and Â»files and foldersÂ«...
<godbyk> You mean having a Files entry?
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> I think 'Files browser' may have been a better choice there.
<godbyk> Have they named the S cycle yet?
<godbyk> I hate having to wait so long to create the new branch.
<CarstenG> yes, saucy salamander, or?
<CarstenG> mom
<CarstenG> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252
<godbyk> Ah, yes: saucy salamander.
<godbyk> Good.
<godbyk> So I can create the new branch right away and we can put some of our fixes in there before we forget about them. :-)
<CarstenG> the cds and dvds we can fix in raring too, or?
<godbyk> Nah.
<godbyk> It doesn't look the best, but it doesn't really stop people from finding the information.
<godbyk> We really do need to proofread the index more frequently, though.
<CarstenG> for the pot file, I mean ...
<godbyk> Oh, if you can track down the problem quickly, then sure.
<CarstenG> I give my best :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: Any luck?
<CarstenG> not yet
<CarstenG> the "burning" entry is with the new \indexstart and indexend...
<CarstenG> mybe there is the problem...
<cqfd93> I too, think this "burning" entry might be the problem
<CarstenG> and it is the indexstart and indexend :-) If I change it back to the previous syntax with |( and |) then it works...
<CarstenG> stange.
<CarstenG> strange.
<CarstenG> this burning entry is the only one , which has a @ inside. (in the group of indexstart and ~end)
<CarstenG> so maybe this creates an error with the argument #1 in the \newcommand?
<godbyk> Hmm.. I'm not sure.
<godbyk> I guess we'll have to poke around there.
<cqfd93> Got to leave (time to go to bed) Bye!
<CarstenG> Yes, I will upload the change back from insexstart to |(
<CarstenG> by Sylvie.
<CarstenG> I will follow you in 5 min :-)
<cqfd93> :-)
<godbyk> CarstenG: Okay.
<godbyk> Otherwise, I'm ready to generate the .pot file.
<CarstenG> pull
<CarstenG> commit
<CarstenG> and push
<CarstenG> online :-)
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> Rebuilding PDF...
<godbyk> Yeah, that looks better.
<godbyk> Generating pot file...
<CarstenG> great :-)
<CarstenG> ok, time for bed now.
<godbyk> 'kay. See you later.
<godbyk> Thanks for your help, CarstenG!
<CarstenG> Let's see how much is translated tomorrow :-)
<CarstenG> Your are welcome :-)
<CarstenG> See you
<CarstenG> g night
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-26
<teolemon> if you wish to use fuzzy for translations
<teolemon> we've set up a bogus project
<teolemon> where you can upload the fuzzy strings as translated strings so that they appear as suggestions for the actual ubuntu manual translations
<CarstenG> Hi all.
<teolemon> hi :-)
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie.
<hannie> hi CarstenG
<teolemon> hi hannie
<hannie> hey teo
<teolemon> 16:14 teolemon: we've set up a bogus project
<teolemon> 16:14 teolemon: where you can upload the fuzzy strings as translated strings so that they appear as suggestions for the actual ubuntu manual translations
<teolemon> (just repeating what i said)
<hannie> let me have a look
<teolemon> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated
<teolemon> in the case of French, I've also added machine translations for the totally new strings, but I know it's a no no for the other languages :-)
<hannie> teolemon, are they added as suggestions to Launchpad?
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> eg:
<teolemon> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/raring/+pots/ubuntu-manual/fr/+translate?memo=190&show=untranslated&start=190
<hannie> ah, that is good news. So we can translate them online instead of offline
<teolemon> we have both the fuzzy translation showing up
<teolemon> and the machine translation (for French)
<teolemon> so we can pick and choose or mix both
<hannie> Do you change the .pot file and upload it to LP?
<teolemon> you just have to upload the result of your command (eg po file)
<teolemon> in the bogus project
<teolemon> we used the raring pot for the bogus project
<hannie> ok, I will have to study it before I understand it ;)
<teolemon> but launchpad accepts partial po files
<teolemon> or send me the nl po
<teolemon> and i'll put it on the bogus project for you
<hannie> teolemon, I could do that, but maybe I should try  first
<teolemon> ok
<hannie> and if I have questions, perhaps you can help me
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> normally you should be able to upload to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated
<hannie> ok
<teolemon> and that will be a good training for when you decide to semi-automate the ddtp :-P
<hannie> ha
<hannie> teolemon, if I understand it correctly, I use mgsmerge like I explained, then upload the result to:
<hannie> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-manual-ubuntu-manual/nl/+translate
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> before that
<hannie> ah, briljant. I will do it in a minute
<teolemon> you can upload machine translations
<teolemon> an then upload msmerge
<hannie> what do you mean by "machine translation"?
<teolemon> so that you can get translations for strings not covered by msmerge
<hannie> the one that is 100% translated (Precise-e2 for me)
<teolemon> strings processed by http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
<teolemon> i used quantal
<teolemon> for French
<hannie> ok, but that is also the one I use as a base for msgmerge
<teolemon> there might be less modified strings than with raring
<hannie> yes, but we have not translated quantal
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> i used raring, processed it with http://translate.google.com/toolkit/
<teolemon> uploaded it to the bogus project
<teolemon> then did msgmerge between raring and quantal
<teolemon> (or raring and precise for you)
<teolemon> uploaded it to the bogus project
<hannie> teolemon, what do you do with google toolkit? Automated translations are terrible :(
<teolemon> that way, I get msmerge translations where possible
<teolemon> and machine translations otherwise
<teolemon> I did proofread it a little because it breaks syntax
<teolemon> otherwise, the translations are ok for French
<teolemon> as the manual is well written in English
<teolemon> the output is not bad in French
<hannie> I'll give it a try too
<teolemon> the only thing is:
<teolemon> try to fix as many syntax errors as possible in Google Translator Kit
<teolemon> because it lets you find and replace in translated strings only
<hannie> ok
<teolemon> there must be a gettext command for that
<teolemon> but i don't know it
<teolemon> and then you have to export it and make sure it validates in poedit
<teolemon> and do find and replace until it validates
<teolemon> or just erase the translations that don't validate
<teolemon> to go quicker
<hannie> teolemon, that is a lot of information you give me. I have copied this conversation so I can have a look at it when I am experimenting.
<teolemon> i've made a summary for the DDTP
<teolemon> http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu
<teolemon> it's quite similar
<hannie> I will let you know if I get stuck
<hannie> you are very accurate ;)
<hannie> teolemon, either LP or my provider is very slow. the download hasn't arrived yet. I will do the merging as soon as it arrives.
<teolemon> lp
<teolemon> it takes a couple of min
<hannie> ok, not neuf.fr
<hannie> it takes more than 10 minutes so far
<teolemon> usually it takes a long time for the ddtp
<teolemon> but not for smaller templates
<hannie> teolemon, LP is a bit recalcitrant, it has not sent me the file yet, despite "Your request has been received.. etc."
<hannie> I will do it later this evening or tomorrow
<hannie> Thanks for your info so far
<CarstenG> I'm just playing with msgmerge...
<CarstenG> I get the following warning, when I try to merge precise.po with quantal.po
<CarstenG> internationalized messages should not contain the `\r' escape sequence
<CarstenG> 19 times
<CarstenG> Do you know, what can the reason for that?
<hannie> CarstenG, I will answer in a minute
<CarstenG> in the mentioned line numbers are only the Â»msgstr ""Â«
<hannie> CarstenG, I think I encountered this warning also and decided to ignore it
<CarstenG> ok, :-)
<CarstenG> Its only a warning :-)
<hannie> yes, no consequences I guess
<hannie> At least, it did not give me any problem
<CarstenG> I guess I found the problem:
<CarstenG> In very huge paragraphes I added some line breaks in LP, so these are now in the po file, and the warning occure, e.g: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/de/838/+translate
<hannie> ah, well done, inspector carsten
<hannie> so you are not allowed to add line breaks
<CarstenG> yes, you are right. :-)
<CarstenG> But in raring these huge paragraphs are now in raring split, so they are not needed anymore :-)
<hannie> you mean the authors/editors shortened the paragraphs?
<CarstenG> yes
<CarstenG> I did also some.
<hannie> good, because it was a nightmare for translators
<hannie> Got to go, see you
<cqfd93> Hi All!
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-27
<hannie> teolemon, if you are in, I just want to say I sent you an email a minute ago with my experiment results
<teolemon> looking at it
<hannie> ok
<teolemon> you have to mark them as translated
<teolemon> not fuzzy
<teolemon> and import them as translated in the bogus project
<hannie> you mean I have to approve them in Lokalize first?
<hannie> In that case it is not different from how I used to do it
<teolemon> and what you can upload first are machine translations
<hannie> what you call machine translation is already in the merged file
<teolemon> not quantal
<teolemon> raring+ machine translations
<hannie> in my case precise-e2 (100% translated)
<teolemon> and then the po file with the fuzzy
<teolemon> marked as translated
<hannie> so precise-e2 + raring > merged
<teolemon> can you send me the po file
<hannie> ok it is about 928 kB
<teolemon> machine translation for me is google translate
<hannie> Is that not too big?
<teolemon> and did you mark them as translated
<hannie> teolemon, if I approve them in Lokalize there is no point in sending the file to manualautomated
<teolemon> before uploading
<hannie> Because then I have already done the work in Lokalize
<teolemon> so that they show up as suggestions ?
<teolemon> i should be ok
<hannie> If I open the merged file in Lokalize there are more than 500 suggestions called Not ready
<teolemon> give it a try
<hannie> teolemon, I already have uploaded the merged file with suggestions to LP but the suggestions that show in Lokalize do not show in manualautomated.
<teolemon> you mass approve them in a text editor or using keyboard shortcut
<hannie> If I approve them in Lokalize there is no point in uploading the file to ubuntuautomated
<teolemon> and then several translators can review them
<hannie> I can just as well upload it to /ubuntu-manual/raring
<teolemon> because you didn't mass validate offline first
<hannie> I have to validate one by one. Is there another way?
<teolemon> you feed the bogus project with strings you mass validated
<teolemon> you don't care about the content
<hannie> And where do I mass validate the fuzzies?
<teolemon> select all
<teolemon> validate
<teolemon> save
<teolemon> and upload
<hannie> Hold on. Select all where? In a text editor? A text editor does not have a function Validate
<teolemon> and then
<teolemon> 10 people can look at them online
<teolemon> and see if modifications are necessary
<hannie> teolemon, I think I have to see if Lokalize has this function "validate the whole selection"
<teolemon> yes
<hannie> Now I think I see what you mean. Before uploading I have to approve the whole selection. I have to check if I can do this in Lokalize. I will let you know.
<teolemon> using a text editor
<hannie> you mean a CAT
<teolemon> or using a keyboard shortcut
<teolemon> as you wish
<teolemon> #, fuzzy
<teolemon> msgid "label 1" //Nouveau msgid
<teolemon> you find and replace the fuzzy part
<teolemon> to make it look like a regular string
<hannie> just a minute, I'll open it in gedit
<teolemon> i did it in one or two minutes using shortcut and typing like a crazy person on my keyboard
<teolemon> but a find and replace in kedit
<teolemon> or any text editor will be even faster
<hannie> right, I see #, fuzzy in gedit
<hannie> #, fuzzy must be changed to what?
<teolemon> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/c4e32486f76e895ee2d4
<teolemon> here's an exemple
<hannie> Yes, I spotted the #, fuzzy lines. Do I have to delete them or replace them by someting else?
<teolemon> find all
<teolemon> #, fuzzy
<teolemon> replace by
<teolemon> (and put nothing)
<hannie> ok, so just delete the whole line #, fuzzy
<teolemon> and you're done
<teolemon> is that ok ?
<hannie> I think I get it now. But you still have to find and delete them one by one. There is no bulk deleting in gedit
<teolemon> wipe them
<hannie> Or is there a command I do not know?
<teolemon> to make them look like translated strings
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> you can check the result in lokalize
<teolemon> if you want
<teolemon> eeeh
<teolemon> replace all ?
<CarstenG> Hannie, try CTRL+H
<teolemon> gedit doesn't have a find and replace function
<hannie> right. It takes a while to delete 500 #, fuzzy lines
<CarstenG> gedit has a replace function.
<teolemon> is that what you're implying ?
<teolemon> ;-)
<hannie> CarstenG, that's the right shortcut (didn't know it, thanks)
<CarstenG> Open the window with CTRL+H
<teolemon> http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/
<teolemon> hum hum
<CarstenG> and there you fill the fields and click then Â»Replace allÂ«
<hannie> Ayay, my bad. Didn't know it existed in gedit
<teolemon> otherwise, if you're into KDE, you can use a kde text editor
<hannie> It is done in a jiffy
<teolemon> with more functionnality :-P
<hannie> Now I will upload it again to ubuntuautomated
<teolemon> ten seconds ?
<CarstenG> teo: We are making the manual for GNOME, so we use gedit :-p
 * teolemon won't joke about German efficiency :-)
<hannie> or less ;)
<hannie> I use gedit too
<CarstenG> :-)
<hannie> I only saw it as a toy compared to big brother Word
<teolemon> ^^
<hannie> thanks for your patience with me
<teolemon> http://manilovefilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/noisy-cricket.jpg
<hannie> One thing I have to say to my defence: there is no Find and Replace in the menu bar of gedit
<teolemon> small but powerful :-)
<CarstenG> Teo: Can you explain this topic Â»bogus projectÂ«, Â»ubuntuautomatedÂ« on the mailing list? It sound interesting, but I did not yet understand it in detail. Also for other translator it would be useful, or?
<teolemon> which ml ?
<teolemon> ubuntu-translators ?
<CarstenG> no our ml
<CarstenG> ubuntu-manual
<hannie> or both
<teolemon> it's basically a rehash of what we did for the ddtp
<CarstenG> Hannie: There is a entry in the menu bar \menu{Search \then Replace \ldots} :-)
<teolemon> lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu
<teolemon> http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu
<teolemon> we detailed our methodology here
<hannie> CarstenG, I found it under Search, I expected it to be under Edit. O, O, O
<teolemon> you know things are bad when you start talking LaTeX to fellow team members
<teolemon> hannie, have you uploaded it ?
<hannie> I am going to do it in a second
<CarstenG> teo: Thanks for this link. I'll have a look
<hannie> teolemon, done. Thank you for your upload. In import queue
<teolemon> i've added a paragraph
<teolemon> on how to unfuzzy strings
<teolemon> as we mainly used google translate for ddtp suggestions
<hannie> teolemon, are you the one who approves the import?
<teolemon> we didn't rely on fuzzy
<teolemon> just approve
<teolemon> approved it
<teolemon> it should appear in a couple of minutes
<hannie> ah, great! Thanks
<hannie> I am so curious if the result is ok now
<teolemon> but you'll have 100 or so strings left to translate fully by youself
<hannie> better than 500 ;)
<teolemon> possibly more
<hannie> I may even decide to translate raring. so far we only do LTS versions of the manual
<teolemon> i think so
<teolemon> or maybe you can approve it yourself
<hannie> 100 strings of the manual is different from gui strings (much shorter)
<teolemon> as ubuntu-translators member
<hannie> Not many of my fellow translators like the long strings
<teolemon> I can guarantee that when you do that at DDTP scale
<CarstenG> Teo: It looks like that the project https://launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated is for the current raring translation. Is it possible to use it also for the quantal version?
<teolemon> you get a great chill
<teolemon> (teaser ^^)
<hannie> lol
<teolemon> and we should be good !
<teolemon> have a look
<hannie> We may start working on DDTP again if I can do the fuzzy trick there too
<teolemon> you have 207 strings left
<CarstenG> Or should we create a https://launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated-quantal
<teolemon> do you want me to add automated suggestions ?
<teolemon> we'd need to upload the quantal template
<teolemon> but yes
<CarstenG> ?
<teolemon> we've finished quantal so i didn't do it
<teolemon> (French love to brag)
<teolemon> on the ddtp
<hannie> We have a shortage of translators at Ubuntu Dutch Translators
<teolemon> fuzzy is not enough
<hannie> teolemon, I know I have to study the instructions you wrote. Haven't found time to do it yet
<teolemon> you need automation
<teolemon> not useful
<hannie> Yes, automation is the key word
<teolemon> and polluting launchpad
<hannie> We are very grateful what you did for ddtp. I have started to work with Nightmonkey again
<hannie> And a good idea to find people with interest in a specific field
<teolemon> use Ubuntu Robot Dutch Translators
<hannie> :)
<teolemon> they don't complain
<teolemon> do the work in 5 minutes
<hannie> There is always a human behind the robot ;)
<teolemon> don't eat
<teolemon> don't breathe
<teolemon> my wish is that we all automated
<hannie> yeah, definitely
<hannie> You have made a good start. Keep up the good work!
<teolemon> the ddtp have been here for too long
<CarstenG> Teo: Nice, if you could upload the template for quantal. But I first have to generate the merged po file based on the precise translation.
<teolemon> i want to get done with it
<hannie> I am going to have a look at ubuntuautomated
<teolemon> once and for all
<teolemon> it should be crowdsourced
<hannie> Kissy, kissy, only 207 untranslated........
<teolemon> and then the translators act as reviewers
<hannie> teolemon, there is a small risk that I approved strings that shouldn't have been approved
<teolemon> robots >reviewed by> humans non translators >reviewed by> ubuntu professional reviewers
<teolemon> it's a pyramid
<teolemon> the thing is I can't push other teams
<hannie> teolemon, I will try to revive the ddtp translation in the Dutch team
<teolemon> i've requested a pot for quantal
<CarstenG> Hannie: I have a problem with the msgmerge...
<hannie> CarstenG, what's the problem?
<teolemon> and google translate could give you suggestions for the rest
<CarstenG> I do a
<CarstenG> $ msgmerge precise.po quantal.po > quantal_merged.po
<teolemon> we're down to 50
<hannie> CarstenG, are you in the directory with the po files?
<teolemon> where ?
<teolemon> in the automated project ?
<CarstenG> and now I get in the merged file a fuzzy string wich was already translated in the quantal.po.
<hannie> CarstenG, only one? Perhaps there was a slight change
<CarstenG> So is there a way to ignore already translated strings in the quantal file?
<CarstenG> No, there are more...
<teolemon> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/quantal/+pots/ubuntu-manual/nl/+translate?show=untranslated&direction=backwards&memo=430&start=420
<teolemon> have a look
<teolemon> the suggestions are showing up in quantal as well
<hannie> CarstenG, why would you ignore already translated strings? they should be in the merged file
<teolemon> CarstenG
<CarstenG> Ok, let me give an example for better understanding.
<teolemon> i can put online automatic suggestions for multiverse if you're interested to test
<hannie> by all means. I am willing to test things for you
<hannie> or for us the Dutch team
<teolemon> if you're satisfied with the quality we can then put it for main and universe
<hannie> I do not like google translate very much, although it is getting better lately
<hannie> I only use it for common words. Do you know trans.eu?
<teolemon> i've uploaded the template for quantal
<hannie> sorry opentran.eu
<CarstenG> Lets use the glossary entry Â»CanonicalÂ« as example.
<CarstenG> In precise I have:
<teolemon> if you want we can do a google hangout so that I can share my screen and drive you through all this
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It
<CarstenG> has over 310 paid staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted
<CarstenG> by volunteer contributors.  To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, der Geldgeber Ubuntus, leistet UnterstÃ¼tzung fÃ¼r das Ubuntu-Kernsystem.
<CarstenG> Canonical verfÃ¼gt Ã¼ber mehr als 310 bezahlte Mitarbeiter weltweit, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil ist, und die die
<CarstenG> Arbeit von Freiwilligen Ã¼berprÃ¼fen. Mehr Ã¼ber Canonical erfahren Sie unter \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<CarstenG> In qnatal this string is already translated:
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It
<CarstenG> has over 500 staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted by
<CarstenG> volunteer contributors.  To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical ist der Finanzsponsor von Ubuntu und betreut das HerzstÃ¼ck des Ubuntu-Systems.
<CarstenG> Canonical beschÃ¤ftigt weltweit Ã¼ber 500 BetriebsangehÃ¶rige, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil lÃ¤uft, und die auch
<CarstenG> sÃ¤mtliche BeitrÃ¤ge gegenprÃ¼fen, die von freiwillig Mitwirkenden eingereicht werden. Um mehr Ã¼ber Canonical zu erfahren, folgen Sie \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<hannie> CarstenG, so you are talking about the change from 310 to 500 staff members?
<CarstenG> In qnatal this string is already translated:
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, the financial backer of Ubuntu, provides support for the core Ubuntu system. It
<CarstenG> has over 500 staff members worldwide who ensure that the foundation of the operating system is stable, as well as checking all the work submitted by
<CarstenG> volunteer contributors.  To learn more about Canonical, go to \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<CarstenG> \\newglossaryentry{Canonical}{name={Canonical}, description={Canonical, der Geldgeber Ubuntus, leistet UnterstÃ¼tzung fÃ¼r das Ubuntu-Kernsystem.
<CarstenG> Canonical verfÃ¼gt Ã¼ber mehr als 310 bezahlte Mitarbeiter weltweit, die sicherstellen, dass die Basis des Betriebssystems stabil ist, und die die
<CarstenG> Arbeit von Freiwilligen Ã¼berprÃ¼fen. Mehr Ã¼ber Canonical erfahren Sie unter \\url{http://www.canonical.com}.}}
<hannie> Yes, and the translation will also be in raring when you merge. What's wrong with that?
<CarstenG> Hannie: Its no the change from 300 to 500 staff members... The problem is, that I get in the merged file a fuzzy string for an entry which is already translated in quantal.
<hannie> CarstenG, it will not be a fuzzy anymore when you remove all the #, fuzzy lines from the merged file
<hannie> As I have only just learned from teolemon
<hannie> You DO want to keep the translation of a long message, even if there has been a slight change
<CarstenG> In short words:
<CarstenG> My "problem":
<CarstenG> precise translated -- quantal translated --> in merged file string from precise, marked as fuzzy.
<CarstenG> My expected behaviour:
<CarstenG> * precise translated -- quantal translated --> in merged file string from quantal, not marked as fuzzy.
<CarstenG> * precise translated -- quantal NOT translated --> in merged file string from precise, marked as fuzzy
<hannie> teolemon, I suggest I start reading / experiment with your google translate instructions. After that I'll come back to you and see how we are going to do it for the Dutch language
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> or if you're feeling like it
<teolemon> i can screencast by doing multiverse
<teolemon> while you're doing main
<teolemon> and ask me any questions during the screencast
<hannie> teolemon, forgive me, but what do you mean by screencast?
<teolemon> and CarstenG can join too if he's interested for de
<teolemon> we can have up to 8 persons attenting
<hannie> do you mean the hangout?
<teolemon> google hangout
<hannie> ok
<teolemon> where i share my screen
<teolemon> instead of my face
<teolemon> and meanwhile, we talk
<hannie> yes, good idea. But I have to prepare before I join
<teolemon> do you have a google account ?
<hannie> teolemon, yes, but so far, for privacy reasons, I refused to participate in hangouts ;)
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> but you don't need to prepare much
<hannie> you may see if you can plan a date and time, I will do some reading in the meantime
<teolemon> as we'll do the same thing at the same time
<teolemon> it's a fuc***g efficient way to work
<teolemon> ok
<hannie> I suppose so. I'll participate
<teolemon> if you so wish
<teolemon> i had a couple of spare hours before our release lunch
<hannie> CarstenG, if precise translated -- quantal translated --> merged there must have been a slight difference between the two messages
<teolemon> so i intended to put them to good use :-)
<hannie> otherwise you do NOT get a fuzzy
<hannie> teolemon, se if you can find a convenient time and date for yourself and call for participants using doodle
<hannie> *see
<hannie> teolemon, I'm sure Redmar will also be interested
<CarstenG> Hannie: yes, you are right. In this case is a difference between the precise and quantal string. But I'm wondering why I get the precise string as suggestion, if the quantal string is already translated. Or I have not yet understand the idea behind msgmerge...
<hannie> The strings of the first file are merged with those of the second, resulting in fuzzies in the third file if there is a difference between the two
<hannie> CarstenG, that is why it is a bit dangerous to change too many things in a new manual version
<hannie> Example \newglossaryentry was removed in raring, resulting in more than 20 fuzzies (all glossary entries)
<hannie> The same goes for splitting long paragraphs. It should be to the benefit of translators, but changing them means a lot more fuzzies
<hannie> ok, guys, time for a pause. See you
<CarstenG> ok, see you Hannie.
<CarstenG> Teo: I see now two templates for the German language on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated
<CarstenG> Thanks.
<CarstenG> So I can now upload the merged po files there? quantal.po and raring.po?
<teolemon> i goofed a bit i thin
<teolemon> in both
<teolemon> it doesn't matter
<teolemon> launchpad will accept anything
<teolemon> the suggestions will show anyway
<CarstenG> what went wrong?
<teolemon> i think i overwrote the raring template with the quantal template
<teolemon> but the translations are still showing up for French and Dutch
<teolemon> i think lp doesn't care much
<teolemon> it swallows everything
<teolemon> and then uses them as suggestions
<CarstenG> Well, I see both, raring and quantal in German language.
<teolemon> cool
<teolemon> then yes
<CarstenG> should the file I will upload, have a specific name?
<teolemon> upload them in their respective templates
<teolemon> no
<CarstenG> ok
<teolemon> give it the name you want
<CarstenG> ok, ubuntu-manual-quantal-de.po is just uploaded.
<teolemon> it's live normally
<teolemon> i approved it
<CarstenG> grrrr.
<CarstenG> I forgot to remove the fuzzy string
<CarstenG> Ok, then I have to upload it again. :-)
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> it's good
<CarstenG> ok, fine.
<CarstenG> How long does it take, that the strings appear in the ubuntu-manual as suggestions?
<teolemon> a couple of minutes to a couple of hours
<teolemon> it depends
<CarstenG> ok
<teolemon_> is it working ok now ?
<CarstenG> no, not yet.
<teolemon> can you try uploading it into raring as well ?
<CarstenG> I would, but I did not yet received the po file from LP.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-28
<CarstenG> Hi teolemon.
<teolemon> hi
<CarstenG> I jus uploaded the raring po file to ubuntumanualautomated
<CarstenG> just
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> i approved it
<CarstenG> I hope now the suggestions will work
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> they do
<teolemon> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/raring/+pots/ubuntu-manual/de/+translate?show=untranslated
<CarstenG> Yeah, now it works.
<CarstenG> Great.
<CarstenG> I will spread this info to our list, hopefully they like it and we can provide the translations for quantal and raring, too.
<CarstenG> Until now, we made only the translations for LTS versions.
<teolemon> ok
<thorwil> godbyk: hi! fixed german double pushed
<thorwil> exactly 1 pt wider than the dutch one
<CarstenG> Hi Thosten.
<CarstenG> Thanks a lot :-)
<thorwil> gerne
<thorwil> time to make use of the weather :)
#ubuntu-manual 2014-04-25
<benonsoftware> Hiya, this cycle I would like to help out with the Ubuntu Manual. Will there be a list of tasks people can do?
