#ubuntu-meeting-2 2015-09-01
<dsmythies> For the doc tream meeting, please go to #ubuntu-doc.
<kees> \o
<mdeslaur> o/
<infinity> o/
 * slangasek waves
<pitti> o/
<pitti> infinity: so, your turn today?
<infinity> Yep.
<infinity> Just waiting for more hands to go up. :P
<pitti> i. e. stgraber's?
<infinity> We'll live without him, I guess.
<infinity> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 16:02:50 2015 UTC.  The chair is infinity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<infinity> [TOPIC] Action review
<infinity> slangasek: Looks like you had two.
<infinity> ACTION: slangasek to forward complaint to Canonical legal
<infinity> ACTION: slangasek to document maas, juju, docker exceptions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Special_Cases
<slangasek> infinity: both carried over
<infinity> pitti: ACTION: pitti to propose amendment to general SRU policy for new features in LTS
<pitti> yay! done
<pitti> (after some 4 times bouncing)
<pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2015-September/thread.html
<infinity> \o/
<mdeslaur> \o/
<pitti> I also used the opportunity to propose and clean up the SRU policy at large
<pitti> the actual "new features" amendment is rather small
<pitti> but admittedly I only sent this an hour or so ago, so I don't expect anyone to have read it yet and thought about it
<pitti> so maybe replies on the list?
 * stgraber waves
<pitti> Ã§a va stgraber !
<mdeslaur> I skimmed it, but haven't thought it through yet
<infinity> Right, let's take that to the list, and if we don't get anywhere, discuss it at the next meeting.
<infinity> [ACTION] Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list.
<meetingology> ACTION: Everyone to review pitti's SRU policy ammendments and +1/-1 on-list.
<stgraber> pitti: trÃ¨s bien, merci! Sorry for being a bit late, was changing location.
<mdeslaur> pitti: this basically removes the need to get an explicit tech-board ack for SRU microreleases, right?
<slangasek> hadn't seen the mail until just now
<infinity> Do we need to tackle jcastro's driver update stuff in the meeting, or is the healthy list debate working for everyone.
<infinity> ?
<pitti> mdeslaur: that's the intention -- as we basically always ask the same question etc.
<mdeslaur> pitti: ok, was just making sure I parsed it correctly
<pitti> so I'd rather generalize the principles, and stop this (IMHO rather unmaintainable) list
<mdeslaur> infinity: I think jcastro was ok with the discussion
<pitti> Alberto had some followup with some new points (short-lived drivers)
<pitti> but I'm still firmly opposed to enabling random PPAs with some driver GUI
<infinity> Ditto.
<stgraber> yup
<infinity> I had some rather strong opinions off-list about that.
<mdeslaur> yeah, I'd rather see more driver updates in the actual archive
<slangasek> full agreement
<stgraber> short-lived test drivers can go to a PPA. Production-ready drivers can go in as SRUs.
<infinity> Alright, let's keep this discussion on-list, since there's plenty there already, and it's nice to keep the discussion in the same spot.
<stgraber> and said PPA would have to be manually added by any user/tester of said driver
<pitti> yeah, nothing wrong with having PPAs, just don't use them as SRU bypasses
<jcastro> yes the plan is for us to iterate in the PPA, and then people can steal that into distro as necessary
<mdeslaur> I have no objection to perhaps making the SRU waiting period shorter in the future if we're trying to get day-one drivers for specific games in though
<jcastro> just in case people missed my email withdrawing the PPA proposal
<infinity> mdeslaur: Given past quality of those updates, I object to that until there's a better history.
<pitti> I do belive that we have stalled SRU/NEW queues, but enabling PPAs by default doesn't sound like the answer
<infinity> mdeslaur: They introduce packaging regressions often.
<jcastro> pitti: agree 100%
<mdeslaur> infinity: yes, I agree. hence the "in the future"
<slangasek> I didn't get a chance to point this out on the list yet, but one factor in NEW being slow for SRUs is that it's a different queue
<slangasek> I think for jcastro's use case the packages should be continuous SRUs of a single source package, to avoid this
<pitti> yeah, hardly ever looked at
<slangasek> (technical details etc)
<pitti> or at least we need to plant the "look at NEW" idea into ~ubuntu-sru's habits
<infinity> I'm training a couple of new AAs to try to help the queue depth issue, but it might help to get formal about driver updates, much like I did for kernel SRUs when they were having issues a few years ago.
<stgraber> right, that'd also mean getting potentially reviewable diffs instead of the unreviewable monstrosity we get today
<slangasek> pitti: planting in habits won't change the problem of multiple queues + queue starvation, really
<pitti> TBH, the nvidia driver is comparatively hard to source-NEW, as it's such a complex package (both license-wise and packaging-wise)
<slangasek> anyway, the TB doesn't need to micromanage this part I think, sorry for bringing it up :)
<infinity> Heh.
<infinity> [TOPIC] Mailing list archives
<pitti> nothing new aside from the driver thingies that I can see
<infinity> Anything else interesting that we've been missing?
 * pitti pats his mutt filters marking TB email green
<infinity> [TOPIC] Community bugs
<infinity> Nada.
<infinity> [TOPIC] Next chair
<pitti> next time: me, then slangasek ?
<infinity> The wiki claims pitti, which is oddy out of order if today was me.
<infinity> But sure, pitti, then slangasek.
<slangasek> infinity: was yours a catch-up?
<pitti> hm, can't remember the history; we might have swapped due to non-attendance or whatnot
<slangasek> anyway
<infinity> slangasek: Might have been.
<infinity> [TOPIC] AOB
<infinity> Anybody have any OB?
<pitti> nothign from me
<mdeslaur> nope
<stgraber> nope
<slangasek> no
<infinity> Alright, off to edit the wiki.
<infinity> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  1 16:17:23 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-09-01-16.02.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks infinity
<pitti> thanks folks
<stgraber> thanks!
<kees> thanks all
