#ubuntu-website 2009-03-23
<julian> thorwil: i'd go with a three-quarter view as opposed to a front-on view, just to match the laptop and netbook views
<thorwil> hi julian, newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Final,%20with%20slideshow
<thorwil> can this go online tomorrow?
<newz2000> hi knome, rime, do you guys have a few min to update http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Feature%20Carousel/ with the new images? (see the link above)
<newz2000> it would probably help julian to see the final product
<newz2000> thorwil: I think we need to get a few eyes looking at the banner to ensure the timing is right. Otherwise, when julian is ready so am I.
<thorwil> newz2000: ok, cool
<newz2000> knome, rime: actually, never mind, I'll just re-publish it with the new images
<newz2000> julian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
<newz2000> others: what do you think of the timing there? Could it be quicker?
<thorwil> newz2000: not by much
<thorwil> newz2000: we, who we know the images quite well beforehand, have to counteract the tendency to make it too fast
<newz2000> yeah, my thoughts exactly
<newz2000> I kind of wish the transition period was a bit quicker. I wonder if I grabbed the most recent code.
<newz2000> there, that's a bit faster
<newz2000> try this, is it smooth still for you all: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
<thorwil> yes
<jpds> Nice.
<newz2000> thorwil: I looked into the wordpress.com thing... I really can't believe they don't allow iframes. The cross-domain protection built int browsers should prevent them from anything malicious.
<newz2000> fascists.
<thorwil> *shrug*
<thorwil> my wordpress blog doesn't cost a thing, not with 80 hits a day, not with 21000 :)
<thorwil> newz2000: i thought the solution was an image link to a php script?
<newz2000> I guess so, but I've got some hesitancy. I will talk to the sysadmins to see what they say.
<newz2000> thorwil: kat likes it! :-)
<thorwil> cool :)
<knome> newz2000, tbh, i think the carousel is a bit too quick.
<newz2000> knome: can you be more specific? Does it start too quickly (i.e. you miss the first frame) or is everything too quick?
<knome> newz2000, everything is too quick
<knome> newz2000, the transition speed is ok, but the slides are shown too little time
<newz2000> knome: are you a native english speaker/reader?
<knome> newz2000, nope.
<newz2000> ok, that's good feedback
<knome> newz2000, why do you ask? :)
<knome> newz2000, right.
<knome> newz2000, let me explain a bit further:
<knome> newz2000, imagine this scenario: a user enters a site with that countdown banner. the banner might not be in the best place or the viewer misses the first slide accidentally. he might not even notice the second frame or the third, because the slides go froward so quickly. that leads him to the need to refresh the page to see the banner.
<knome> newz2000, so maybe the first slide could be shown a bit more also
<knome> newz2000, but adjusting your eyes to that kind (and size) of banner is really hard, especially if you didn't expect it and if it's not your native language
<newz2000> I think we should:
<newz2000> a: increase duration of first slide
<newz2000> b: count on people not seeing the banner until the animation starts (meaning they'll miss the first slide anyway)
<newz2000> so that implies
<knome> right, so what about adding one slide to the beginning
<newz2000> c: if the banner is content that we want people to see fully, give them a way to replay it
<knome> with animated gif of something that flashes black to the background and to the first slide
<knome> let me be more clear :)
<newz2000> the reason I put the countdown last was because it's the key slide, if they miss the rest but see the last slide is that enough? my inclination is "yes"
<knome> 1) black 2) background 3) transition to the first slide
<julian> thorwil, newz2000 hi guys
<newz2000> hi julian
<thorwil> hi julian
<knome> newz2000, i see. but it's somewhat the waste of thorwils great graphics to expect most of the people missing those frames
<knome> newz2000, my question in this case is: why do we bother doing a carousel if we don't mind people to see those first frames?
<newz2000> well, its not a waste, because I think more people will see the last slide because of the animation and graphics preceding it
<thorwil> there doesn't happen to be a become-visible event that would be triggered if the banner is scrolled up from below the page fold?
 * newz2000 is thinking out loud, not convinced one way or another yet
<newz2000> thorwil: not that i know of
<julian> guys - i just have a couple of comments for you...
<julian> the timing is pretty quick - i'd be tempted to increase hold on each item by 3/4-1 second...
<julian> we know what it's saying. i think new users will want longer to digest what we're saying
<julian> also...
<julian> we need to change the perspective of the desktop. its currently square on, whereas the laptop/netbooks are corner on
<julian> and finally...
<julian> the net book looks really small to the point it looks lost. we need it to be bigger which may mean that the laptop has to go bigger to keep the differentiation
<julian> other than that - the whito branding looks great and the concept looks great :-)
<knome> imho the desktop monitor should be way bigger.
<newz2000> julian: how do you feel about the concept that the first slide (or first few) could get missed until the animation catches the eye?
<knome> newz2000, thorwil, julian: do you think we could replay the carousel if user clicks on the last slide?
<thorwil> julian: the desktop is straight on precisely because the next 2 are corner on. what orientation/rotation would you suggest?
<knome> would that be a solution for missing slides
<newz2000> knome: no, there should be a destination url
<knome> right
<thorwil> knome: a click should lead to ubuntu.com, no?
<knome> right... didn't remember that.
<julian> thorwil, corner on so it matches the next 2
<julian> newz2000, not sure what you mean...
<newz2000> there seems to be a diff perspective for all the slides, servers and cloud included
<knome> i think it's great now.
<newz2000> julian: on a busy page where someone is not there to see the banner they may not even notice it until it starts to move and therefore miss one or more slides
<julian> newz2000, ahh, i see... but it lops doesnt  it...?
<thorwil> newz2000: could be on repeat, with a rather long hold out on the countdown
<knome> julian, it's not looping.
<newz2000> I don't think it's wise to loop indefinitely, but it could repeat once
<newz2000> I'm personally very annoyed when trying to read a page and animations go constantly
<knome> i think what thorwil suggests is ok, if the countdown to new repeat is long enough.
<knome> maybe we could increase the time to next repeat every time it's looped once?
<julian> can there be a time delay between loops ie it plays, remains on last frame for 30s then starts again?
<knome> julian, sure.
<knome> but i agree with newz2000 on ever-looping animation.
<newz2000> julian: I think it's very distracting, 30s delay maybe more so. I'd value mpt's opinion on this.
<knome> making it wait longer after 2 loops would maybe be a solution.
<julian> newz2000, i'll ask mpt now...
 * thorwil switches to fullscreen blender
<julian> thorwil, what do you think about changing the desktop to corner on...?
<thorwil> julian: i'm ok with it. will use the orientation of the netbbook, to have a \ / \ movement, i think
<newz2000> julian: updated the timings as you suggested. +1s to first slide, +0.7s to each subsequent slide.
<newz2000> little over 13s for full animation
<julian> thorwil, newz2000 great...!
<julian> feedback from mpt is...
<julian> looping with a delay is fine as people going to ubuntu.com are going for a reason - its not like surfing to a holiday booking site and being annoyed by banners that are not relevant to me
<julian> also...
<julian> as its on the front page, they are unlikely to be there for long as they're on theor way somewhere else and hence its okay...
<julian> he alao said the "days to go" text is too small to have in perspective - keep it sguare on...
<julian> square
<julian> all great points made by the usability master ;-)
 * mpt cringes
<thorwil> it's not like i didn't consider to keep the "days to go" outside the perspective. kept it this way for better closure
<thorwil> should be possible to doctor that without rendering the whole batch. other wise see you again tomorrow ...
 * thorwil somehow managed to make the little images take a long time to render
<newz2000> mpt, julian: this isn't for the homepage of ubuntu.com, it's for syndication to blogs and sites across the web
<mpt> newz2000, for that purpose, I suggest just the final frame, no animation
<newz2000> that will be the primary way it's used, this iframe/animation is an experimental alternative
 * thorwil -> dinner
<julian> newz2000, just so i'm clear, what will be used for ubuntu.com?
<newz2000> julian: my intention was thorwil's static countdown banner, but this animation is getting good enough that I'm tempted to use it.
<julian> i agree
<julian> i think we should use it...
<newz2000> these banners will also be syndicated across the web for use on other sites
<newz2000> from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
<julian> shouldn't we use 1 banner consistently...?
<julian> (or was this just an example from 8.10)...?
<knome> julian, the carousel is fallbacking to the last frame anyway if a user doesn't have JS
<knome> julian, so i would treat the carousel only as an advanced version of the same banner.
<newz2000> julian: the line is blurry. We used two banners last time because of the colour differences. We did two this time because we did two last time. The iframe/animation was just to delve into new territory
<newz2000> to see if it was feasible
<julian> newz2000, i see
<julian> i think his design works as static with the countdown and as an animation...
<julian> can only be a good thing for the user
<newz2000> so does the syndication aspect affect your opinion about looping?
<julian> not really - i'm tempted to say that the banner is trying to do the same thing no matter where it is...
<julian> or who's looking at it
<newz2000> ok, so loop with a delay then? (something like 30s was mentioned)
<julian> yes - but on reflection, maybe a little shorter - 15s
<newz2000> ok, will do
<julian> cool
<julian> newz2000, i have to leave now - send me an email with any other points and i'll see it in the morning...
<newz2000> ok, thans julian. I think I'm set.
<julian> thanks for your help
<thorwil> newz2000: when exactly do you intend to bring this online?
<newz2000> thorwil: when it's done, sometime on or before Thursday
<thorwil> newz2000: in that case, i will take it easy now and will likely leave most of the changes for tomorrow
<newz2000> thorwil: that's fine, thanks for the work
<thorwil> you're welcome
<mongolito404> Hello world
<mongolito404> Does someone work on the javascript for the countdown ?
<MadsRH> Do you mean the carousel?
<mongolito404> Yes
<mongolito404> On the 17th kome mentioned his js-expert will rewrite it as wanted
<knome> mongolito404, it's been rewritten
<mongolito404> So there is no need for mo to work on it ?
<knome> nope.
<knome> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/countdown_09-04_thorwil/countdown.html
<knome> it's been written to not use mootools, yahoo or google or anything else than its own code
<mongolito404> jquery was used for ease, google as CDN for jquery.js and yahoo to provide a client independant timestamp.
<mongolito404> But off course, it's fine without all that stuffs. I used for the fun of trying them.
<knome> sure. no offense :)
<knome> actually, that js does not have any time handling
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-24
<thorwil> julian, newz2000: hi! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Final,%20with%20slideshow
<thorwil> a change i didn't mention from last time is tweaked and sharpened text for coming-soon and it's-here
<thorwil> now i also sharpened the "days to go" and added an alternative with flat text. i prefer the 3d one
<thorwil> first 3 slideshow images have the requested changes, other 2 unchanged
<thorwil> have to run now, i'll be back in half to a full hour
<newz2000> thanks thorwil, will peek at them in a moment
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-25
<thorwil> hi!
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-26
<newz2000> ubuntu.com updated to drupal 6
<newz2000> now I'm working on the countdown banners and beuno is testing the start page
<newz2000> beta is today!!!!!
<thorwil> newz2000: just noticed that the shadow beneath the "page" on ubuntu.com looks cut-off
<newz2000> yes, it is
<newz2000> I've got a few tweaks I need to fix
<newz2000> will probably publish them this eve or tomorrow morning
<thorwil> ok
<newz2000> if you see any others let me know
<newz2000> most of the rest I know of are related to canonical.com
<LaserJock> newz2000: how hard would it be to get edubuntu.org on Drupal6?
<newz2000> hey LaserJock, probably not too hard, the big things are:
<newz2000> ensuring the theme is ready
<newz2000> probably tweaking views afterwards
<newz2000> (that's it)
<LaserJock> newz2000: I saw mentions about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDrupal and wonderd if that would be a good place to start on getting a better theme going
<newz2000> let me look closely at that first
<LaserJock> I'd like to find, if possible, a theme that we can branch off of and possibly merge via bzr in the future
<newz2000> I used 960 this time
<newz2000> it was a piece of cake
<LaserJock> seems like we're kind out doing our own thing sometimes, which can bite us in the butt :-)
<newz2000> LaserJock: so about that wiki page...
<newz2000> we're getting ready to release an offical and qa'd version of the launchpad integration
<newz2000> is that something you're hoping to use?
<LaserJock> that wasn't my primary goal, but it would be useful in terms of setting who can edit
<LaserJock> in the future we may have more use for it but it's not very high on my priority list
<LaserJock> I'm looking more for consistency and easy updating
<newz2000> LaserJock: do you use any modules outside of core?
<LaserJock> doesn't look like it
<newz2000> LaserJock: will there be ISOs for edubuntu this time around?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> there will be an Ubuntu Education CD
<newz2000> are you guys still using the official set of mirrors like ubuntu and kubuntu does?
<LaserJock> I believe so yes
<newz2000> I don't think it would be hard
<newz2000> it may be a good idea to move you onto the ubuntu web farm, but I'd need to talk to the sysadmins about that first.
<newz2000> that would make updating the download page easier
<LaserJock> right
<newz2000> it would mean you couldn't use PHP code outside of the ensorsed drupal modules
<newz2000> LaserJock: what I'd do is install drupal 6 locally or somewhere that you have access to it and work on a theme
<newz2000> thats most of your owkr
<newz2000> work
<LaserJock> newz2000: yeah, would it be possible for you to email me the current theme?
<LaserJock> I actually don't have a copy of it anywhere
<newz2000> oh, sure
<newz2000> do you want the database too?
<LaserJock> sure
<newz2000> ok. If you don't mind I'm going to put it on my calendar to do it later on today after beta launches
<LaserJock> sure, np
<newz2000> is your laserjock.ubuntu gmail address the best one?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> laserjock@ubuntu.com
<newz2000> ok, will do
<newz2000> oops. My google calendar may have gotten a little too friendly with you LaserJock. :-)
<LaserJock> not yet :-)
<newz2000> I put your email address in the description field and it thought I wanted to invite you. Feel free to ignore it.
<Turl> newz2000: redesign in firefox homepage?
<newz2000> Turl: oui!
<Turl> newz2000: I must admit I just don't like it :P
<Turl> too white
<Turl> it 'damages' my eyes!
<newz2000> Turl: julian's team did this. It's not too late to submit a suggestion
<newz2000> though I suspect the box itself won't change
<Turl> newz2000: maybe if the box had a little greyish background
<newz2000> make a mockup, send it to the list
<newz2000> I'll ensure that Julian sees it.
<newz2000> Even if you can't demonstrate it perfectly just get the point across
<Turl> I'll try, I'm not good with gimp though
<newz2000> inkscape. It's a beautiful thing.
 * Turl aptgets inkscape
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-27
<boredandblogging> sorry if this has been reported but is option 2 supposed to display the 8.10 banner?
<mib_h3ga83> hello.
<mib_h3ga83> i would like to help.
<mib_h3ga83> how can i help?
<mib_h3ga83> i can help draw, and make banners and stuff like that. i designed the banner for this site: http://ubuntu.sg/node
<mib_h3ga83> ?
<rime> hmm, it seems that the carousels noscript-tag has a broken image link
<rime> it looks really stupid when you don't have javascript on (it says "frame 6" and nothing else)
<knome> newz2000, ^
<newz2000> rime: thanks for pointing it out, I will fix it
<thorwil> newz2000: hi! http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown is very well done!
<newz2000> thanks, glad you like it.
<newz2000> I know the static image isn't quite what you were hoping for but I figure I'll switch the symlink on release day so that it's at least something
<thorwil> well, the last 2 images were meant to be a "surprise", but i know you wouldn't like one giving a date, like the option i offered last time
<newz2000> :-) Yeah, call me paranoid...
<newz2000> but that's just asking for something to go wrong
<thorwil> newz2000: if i increae font-size on ubuntu.com, suddenly a white "the cloud" text appears overlaid on the slideshow
<newz2000> thorwil: oh, thanks, I will fix that
<thorwil> that piece of text is not selectable, but i doesn't come from my graphics
<newz2000> header image replacement
<newz2000> how big do you have to make your text to see it?
<thorwil> newz2000: and if i click on the slideshow, the image that appears has cut-off text: "We would like you in testing and ...
<newz2000> doh!
<newz2000> doh!
<newz2000> doh!
 * newz2000 slaps his forehead
<thorwil> heh
<newz2000> I am such an amature
<newz2000> ok, some problems fixed
 * thorwil adds note to the wiki page that banners are online now
<newz2000> thanks thorwil
<newz2000> is it too early to tell if you're getting traffic from the links?
<newz2000> (to your website)
<thorwil> i'll check in a bit
<thorwil> i'll have to hand out a price for most-over-the-feedback-yet for "Not funny - this is perfect. "Wow" doesn't really even do it justice. The person that made this is either a genius or someone with a whole crap load of time for perfection. 'or both'" on said wiki
<thorwil> but the following "I like it. But can you put the mascots on top each day? Or replace day by mascots, day win show in mascots." is funny in a sad way
<newz2000> :-)
<boredandblogging> newz2000: someone left a comment about the text not being big enough on the iframed version on my blog
<boredandblogging> on the js iframed version the text-ident isnât big enough and i get
<boredandblogging> âer and in the cloudâ
<boredandblogging> over the animation,
<boredandblogging> another couple of hundred px should fix it.
<boredandblogging> no clue what it means :-)
<newz2000> boredandblogging: thanks, good feedback
<thorwil> newz2000: 20 views today, 13 yesterday. but that isn't a deviation from before. were it fluctuated 4 and about 15
<newz2000> thorwil: I just fixed the indent, can you see if it's all better now?
<thorwil> newz2000: what exactly would be better now?
<newz2000> no white text when you increase the font-size
 * newz2000 could not reproduce it
<thorwil> newz2000: could be that i need a step more to make it happen now
<thorwil> newz2000: does your browser scale the whole page with images? my firefox is instructed to leave images alone
<newz2000> oh, mine scales the image too
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/ubuntu-904-countdown/
<newz2000> Good work, I wish I had time to learn blender
<thorwil> thanks. same here ;)
<newz2000> thorwil: did I understand correctly that you can take stuff from inkscape and use it in blender?
<thorwil> newz2000: you can import curves in blender, but that isn't what i did
 * thorwil -> coffee
<boredandblogging> newz2000: hey
<newz2000> boredandblogging: what's up?
<boredandblogging> newz2000: http://boredandblogging.com/2009/03/26/ubuntu-904-countdown-banner/#comment-2881
<newz2000> not possible
<newz2000> javascript would not cause any server usage at all
<boredandblogging> fair enough
<newz2000> ryanakca: hey, just got a report that kubuntu.org doesn't show up in opera. I can confirm this (using 9.27)
<ryanakca> newz2000: bummer, saw your email, I'll take a prod at it... does it work if you disable JS?
<newz2000> I don't know, didn't try, but opera has a .deb file and is easy to install
 * ryanakca nods, will do
<knome> newz2000, did you get the non-js version fixed?
<newz2000> knome: the non-js version of the animated iframe banner?
<knome> yeah.
<newz2000> yes
<knome> great :)
<cropalato> nice work with the ubuntu countdown. I wold like to know if i can get the source to change for pt_BR.
<newz2000> cropalato: which source did you have in mind?
<newz2000> the ring stuff is posted on the wiki and in launchpad
<newz2000> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Thorwil%27s%20Ring
<newz2000> some of the other designs have posted source, many have not
<cropalato> newz2000, thanks
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-28
<thorwil> newz2000: i now need to make the text on ubuntu.com very large until i get to see text leaking on the slideshow. so it is unlikely enough that a noteworthy number of people will see that. instead of causing a relaod of ubuntu.com, could you perhaps link the slideshow to the countdown banner page?
<newz2000> thorwil: that's a good idea
<Turl> hi newz2000
<Turl> just noticed, half of google results when looking for packages are totally broken
<Turl> for example, http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/linux-image-generic
<Turl> you should redirect them to the correct urls
<newz2000> Turl: would you do me a favor and file a bug on that one? File against ubuntu-website
<Turl> ok newz2000
<SiDi> Hello
<Turl> newz2000: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/350428
<ubot3> Malone bug 350428 in ubuntu-website "Old package pages urls are broken" [Undecided,New]
<newz2000> thanks
<LaserJock> newz2000: what are you doing around on the weekend?
<newz2000> hey
<newz2000> paying bills unfortunately
<LaserJock> I've been battling drupal :-)
<newz2000> oh?
<LaserJock> well, more battling my DB/web-app ignorance
<LaserJock> it took me a couple hours to figure out how to get a fresh Druapal 6 with the DB you sent me
<LaserJock> but I got it in the end
<LaserJock> then I had to figure out why themes weren't showing up
<LaserJock> in drupal 6 I guess they need .info files
<newz2000> yeah
<LaserJock> but I do now have the current Edubuntu theme going on Drupal 6
<newz2000> The .info file is pretty simple
<newz2000> just look at the one for garland
<newz2000> but actually you can leave out most of the lines
<newz2000> http://drupal.org/theme-guide/6 has a page on updating your theme
 * SiDi made a PHP script for the countdown banner.
<newz2000> and here's the .info file details http://drupal.org/node/171205
<newz2000> hey SiDi
<SiDi> hello :)
<SiDi> I'm the one who sent the mail about it on the artwork list, by the way
<newz2000> The problem with the php is that our servers are so heavily cached, especially the week before release, that the image won't change at the right times
<SiDi> I just need to find a way to upload it (port 21 blocked here) and it'll be ok
<SiDi> I can host it
<newz2000> you understimate how much load that would generate
<SiDi> my server isn't a race machine but i'm having so many visitors (0) on it that it'll be ok
<SiDi> my ISP will be happy to do this for Ubuntu xD
<newz2000> SiDi: You're welcome to do it but I'm not ready to endorse it as an official countdown at the moment
<SiDi> (i've got a .free.fr domain, the server is on one of Free's machines, Free is a big french ISP, and their servers host a few big sites, they should be ok with that)
<SiDi> no problems. i'm doing it just so that if someone asks for it on irc/forums we can give him/her a link
<newz2000> ok, that is fine
 * SiDi hates js/iframes :P
<newz2000> I understand
<SiDi> Mind if my script links the images hosted on your server instead of mine ? it'll avoid me to manually upload them via a web interface :P
<newz2000> SiDi: yes, you can link to our images
<SiDi> Thanks
<newz2000> SiDi: did you figure out the pattern for the filenames?
<SiDi> no :P your .js file is weird
<newz2000> the imgaes are named 30.png for 30 days from release... 10 days from release you'd want to show 10.png
<newz2000> 3 days from release 03.png
<newz2000> on release day show 00.png until the release actually happens
<newz2000> once we pull the trigger on the release then you'll want to change to here.png
<SiDi> i'll link to static.png once it's at 0
<SiDi> so that when you change it, mine gets updated too
<SiDi> unless there is a particular hour planned at which we should setup here.png
<SiDi> by the way, what timezone should i use ? forcing to America/New York now
<SiDi> http://www.2nt.free.fr/host/jaunty/source.php that's the php source i'm using
<SiDi> http://www.2nt.free.fr/host/jaunty/countdown.php here is the result
<SiDi> the server isnt fast but at least it will never be down
<newz2000> sorry, stepped away for a min...
<newz2000> the timezone varies, as does the release time (it depends on mirrors getting ready)
<newz2000> so we can't hard code it
<newz2000> if you're not going to change the image each day then what's the difference between your php script and my static image?
<SiDi> it does change
<SiDi> takes the day's image
<SiDi> but based on NY's timezone, since i suppose the release date is based on US hours
<newz2000> The release manager is in Seattle so it's probably going to be afternoon US/Eastern time
<SiDi> ok, i hope its not too far from  NY because i cant remember the US map right now :P
<SiDi> i just dont wanna have to wait for the release in order to update the script, or to use an approximate hour, that's why i link to static.png for the last day, so it gets updated at the same time than you update static.png . I cant say if i'll be on my pc on 23rd of april
<SiDi> Shall i drop a mail with the URI of the php script in the -website list ?
<newz2000> sure
<SiDi> Sent
<SiDi> is there a way to change the mail address used on the ubuntu mailing lists ? I should really need to move to my gmail address, this hotmail one is adding ads for WLM T_T
 * SiDi found. Sorry for the dumb question
<SiDi> I need to leave. Have a nice day / evening, people.
<thorwil> 48 views from the countdown page yesterday
<newz2000> not bad
<LaserJock> newz2000: do you have an expectation as to how many hits ubuntu.com will have the day of release?
<newz2000> LaserJock: sorry, management has asked me not to discuss that
<newz2000> it
<LaserJock> k, np
<newz2000> it's actually not a very meaningful number because people sit there and refresh the page again and again until release
<LaserJock> sure, I wasn't trying to figure out a people number
<LaserJock> just an idea of the kind of load
<newz2000> the site is pretty busy
<newz2000> we lock the caches so that the site is served entirely static except for the download page
<LaserJock> is it all served from a single machine?
 * LaserJock is fairly ignorant of how "big" web services/sites are run
<LaserJock> newz2000: so is the ubuntu07 drupal theme current?
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/FridgeTheme?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=fridge_banner_tw.png
<thorwil> good night! :)
#ubuntu-website 2009-03-29
<ethan> hi!
<ethan> I just went to the ubuntu website because I wanted to grab rss feeds
<ethan> but there is only one
<ethan> and its full of vulnerabilities entries
<ethan> is there any chance that a 'user-friendly' rss feed will appear one day? :D
<ethan> I just found one : http://www.ubuntu.com/blog/1/feed
<ethan> but it is well hidden
#ubuntu-website 2010-03-29
<MTecknology> mdke: "my opinion is the only one I've got"
<MTecknology> mdke: true - but it made me laugh a little
#ubuntu-website 2010-03-30
<cjohnston> nealmcb: you arent still around are you?
<cjohnston> sorry nealmcb..
<cjohnston> wrong tab complete
<mdke> MTecknology: ;)
<newz2000> hi cjohnston, I realize it's a bit early for you yet, but I talked to the sysadmins and got their general approval.
<newz2000> I'll email you the details but I'd also like to talk to the design team's project manager to make sure everyone is on the same page
<newz2000> It looks like that will happen tomorrow
<newz2000> so if you can consider things in a holding pattern for just a bit longer I think we'll be in a good position to have everyone in agreement
<newz2000> soon. :-)
<FFEMTcJ> newz2000: Early for you what?
<newz2000> FFEMTcJ: I'm in the UK this week, so no. :-)
<FFEMTcJ> Oh fun
<newz2000> it would be more fun if I weren't working ;-)
<FFEMTcJ> I've been sick for 5 days so wasn't even around enough to know that
<FFEMTcJ> True
<FFEMTcJ> I was confused as to why you were pinging me
<newz2000> oh, are you cjohnston?
<FFEMTcJ> Ya
<FFEMTcJ> Sorry
<newz2000> :-D
<FFEMTcJ> Cell phone
<newz2000> FFEMTcJ: Oh, I just wanted you to know that I've got approval from the IS team on our idea (w/ some caveats)
<FFEMTcJ> Ok
<FFEMTcJ> When do u wanna talk about it?
<FFEMTcJ> I was gonna suggest you call me until u said uk
<newz2000> FFEMTcJ: not today, maybe tomorrow
<FFEMTcJ> K
<newz2000> tomorrow I talk to Iain the proj manager for designs. If we can get his sign-off along with IS we are gold.
<newz2000> And you can move forward w/out any fears of resistance. Mwaa haa haa
<FFEMTcJ> Sweet
<FFEMTcJ> World domination is coming
<FFEMTcJ> I didn't see much feedback to your proposal on how to do it
<newz2000> The worst thing in the world is when people get excited and bureacracy gets in the way, so I'm hoping to do my part to help ensure it doesn't happen
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> there was some chatter here on IRC
<FFEMTcJ> Ok
<FFEMTcJ> Good bad?
<newz2000> good
<FFEMTcJ> Cool
<FFEMTcJ> U back next week?
<FFEMTcJ> Sorry for the textibg lingo.
<newz2000> FFEMTcJ: yeah, I'll be returning late Friday
<newz2000> I may have some time to chat this week. I'll know in an hour what my schedule will look like
<FFEMTcJ> Ok. So hopefully next week a team meeting
<FFEMTcJ> Ok
<FFEMTcJ> For me I don't need anything formal
#ubuntu-website 2010-04-03
<cjohnston> newz2000: guessing you arent around
<jpds> cjohnston: Not on a weekend. :P
<cjohnston> i know
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> every once in a while i get lucky
#ubuntu-website 2010-04-04
<cjohnston> I can't stand how when a bug gets marked invalid in website and then gets added to something else, we still get all the lp emails about it
<jpds> You're still subsrcibed.
<cjohnston> i cant unsubscribe
<cjohnston> because im get subscribed to all website bugs
<cjohnston> so even though its invalid for website i still get it
#ubuntu-website 2011-04-01
<l3on> Hi all... could someone of you provide Pictograms for ubuntu-it website?
<l3on> I had a look at pdf, but if you can reduce to me a few of work... please..
<daker> l3on, pictgrams are here http://design.canonical.com/brand/Pictograms/ (png, psd, svg and eps format)
<l3on> thank you daker !
<daker> l3on, yw
<stas> daker: hey, are we allowed as locos to use any of those?
<daker> AFAIK yes! but newz2000 can give you more details
<stas> cool
<stas> lets hope newz2000 confirms that
<newz2000> alejandraobregon would actually be a better person to askâ¦ ale, what are the licenses for the pictograms at http://design.canonical.com/brand/Pictograms/
<daker> newz2000, i can't read the "Web Developer â Front-end" details
<daker> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/jobSearch.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1
<daker> it says "Error: Invalid Data. Review all error messages below to correct your data.
<daker> This job is no longer available. Please search our current job openings."
 * newz2000 looks
<newz2000> daker: it looks like it was removed
<daker> ah ok
<alejandraobregon> stas: let me get confirmation of the license for you... need to investigate
<alejandraobregon> stas: newz2000: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike  3.0 Unported License. To view a copy of this license, visit  http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ or send a letter to  Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco,  California, 94105, USA.
<newz2000> daker: ^
<daker> ok thanks alejandraobregon newz2000
<alejandraobregon> daker: no problem
<stas> alejandraobregon: thanks :)
<serfus> hey there guys
<serfus> the timers at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown should be updated to 11.4
<serfus> not sure where to file a bug, or if I even should
<newz2000> serfus: we'll be upating it next week. Thanks!
<serfus> newz2000, great :-)
<elleuca> hi, here is a "bug" in ubuntu natty beta announce, here: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/beta -- the full keyboard navigation link in Unity features links to a page on askubuntu.com; we love askubuntu.com, but I feel we should provide official documentation about ubuntu feature in ubuntu.com domain, wiki or www
<cjohnston> not every feature can/needs to be documented on ubuntu.com
<AlanBell> elleuca: I believe the intention is to put that on wiki.ubuntu.com around the release time
<AlanBell> elleuca: the team documenting the keyboard shortcuts as they went along preferred to use askubuntu.com than stare at error 500 responses from the wiki all day
<elleuca> AlanBell, I hope so, I've seen more and more info placed on askubuntu about unity during this release cycle; it's not an official resource and we already have useful places (wiki, launchpad...)
<AlanBell> yeah, well having the wiki broken will do that
#ubuntu-website 2011-04-02
<head_victim> AlanBell: heard any more about the wiki lately? It goes through spits and spurts where it's ok and then goes back to being poor.
<AlanBell> head_victim: I understand Canonical were hiring someone for a week to work on the openID plugin they wrote the first time
<head_victim> AlanBell: ah so that's the issue for it or that's whats holding it back from an upgrade?
<pleia2> head_victim: yeah, the old one they wrote doesn't work with the latest version of moin, this is the update they gave a few weeks back: http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/03/10/wiki-ubuntu-com-upgrade-update/
<head_victim> pleia2: thanks for the link
<pleia2> so that was a little over 3 weeks ago, and at the time of posting it looked like at least 3 weeks away from the next test upgrade
#ubuntu-website 2011-04-03
<shookees> hey everyone
<shookees> when is the 11.04 countdown up?
<pleia2> shookees: they are going to decide upon the winner tomorrow morning UTC
<pleia2> tomorrow == monday
#ubuntu-website 2012-03-26
<cjohnston> uh oh
<newz2000> hey mhall119, cjohnston
<cjohnston> newz2000: as it is I have setup my own box for it.
<mhall119> hey newz2000
<newz2000> mhall119: cjohnston was asking if I can help escalate his RT for staging of summit and loco
<newz2000> he says he wants to be able to update packages
<newz2000> (I can certainly relate to that)
<newz2000> I don't think it's going to happen though, but I have an idea
<newz2000> mhall119: this year we started doing something new, have you used razorgirl?
<mhall119> newz2000: no, I never used it
<nigelb> I'm curious what it is.
 * mhall119 feels like I should call it 'her'
<newz2000> ok, hold time, getting hit from 3 sides now
<cjohnston> we hit hardest
<mhall119> cjohnston: no we don't
<mhall119> trust me
<cjohnston> sshhh
<newz2000> mhall119, cjohnston: ok, here's the story
<newz2000> razorgirl is a pretty stock jenkins, but with bzr and irc modules installed (and SSO login support)
<newz2000> we have made it into pretty much a one-step command to get a new canonistack instance set up and running our app. It's purely scripted.
<newz2000> mhall119 can set up a canonistack and he can look at the code for sizzle/fenchurch to see how we do the bootstrapping
<mhall119> assuming canonistack is working
<newz2000> well, that's why it's a one-step command to bootstrap, right? :-)
<mhall119> we actually have a juju charm for summit
<mhall119> or the start of one anyway
<newz2000> ok, cool. That will work.
<cjohnston> blah
<newz2000> Then we use jenkins to poll the bzr branch every 5 min and when it changes, update the canonistack install.
<newz2000> with the irc plugin we can trigger builds manually in IRC
<newz2000> and when something interesting happens the bot notifies us.
<cjohnston> sounds cool
<nigelb> newz2000: wow. that is cool.
<newz2000> you can count on canonistack going down every week (Mondays about right now) so simple bootstrapping is the key.
<newz2000> no RT needed. Though you do have to be luck enough to get a public IP address. ;-)
<mhall119> are they still running out of public addresses?
<newz2000> yes, but I have two at the moment and will release one today so at least one will be available soon.
<newz2000> and the last e-mail then sent indicated they're working on a solution to that.
<newz2000> mhall119: if you can't use razorgirl then you might want to isntall jenkins on cjohnston's box. It is a very easy install, though I'd suggest having 1G of ram.
<cjohnston> newz2000: got a CC for me?
<newz2000> I would not put that on canonistack
<newz2000> cjohnston: a cc on what?
<cjohnston> ;-)
<cjohnston> Credit Card
<newz2000> ah, no
<newz2000> :-)
<newz2000> maybe the guys at lulzsec can hook you up with one
<cjohnston> I dont know who that is
<newz2000> the renegade black-hat hackers who split off from anonymous
<cjohnston> heh
<mhall119> I think nigelb was going to get us a jenkins instance
<newz2000> heck, they can probable give you mine
<mhall119> newz2000: aren't they also the ones getting themselves arrested and installing virus-infested software on their own machines?
<newz2000> yeah, true
<afougner> lulzsec are the trolls of "hacking"
 * mhall119 has no respect for a 'hacker' that will install and run an unsigned binary on their own machine
<Amoz> cjohnston, how's the form stuff going?
<Amoz> btw, razorgirl sounds cool
<cjohnston> Amoz: nothing has happened since we talked yesterday
<Amoz> k
<Amoz> mhall119, for a django dev server, what webserver would you recommend ?
<cjohnston> we use apache
<cjohnston> people do use ngnix
<mhall119> Amoz: once you're going to django/python, the webserver itself doesn't make a whole lot of difference
<mhall119> newz2000 might have some more insight into that, he did some optimization testing on apache awhile back
<nigelb> I've found apache works better than anything else.
<Amoz> mhall119, apache it is then, I'm struggling though
<mhall119> Amoz: is this for local dev?
<cjohnston> nigelb: could you fire off a tarmac please
<cjohnston> mhall119: its on his box.. he wants to be able to leave it runnign
<mhall119> oh, ok
<Amoz> I get an operationalError exception
<Amoz> unable to open database file
<Amoz> anyone seen that before?
<Amoz> OH wait
<Amoz> local_settings contains the database info
<Amoz> is that automatically recognized by the .wsgi thingy?
<Amoz> probably is...
<newz2000> Amoz: the diff between apache and nginx is that apache comes pre-configured to work in common situations, that means stuff you don't need is turned on by default
<newz2000> Once I tweaked apache I found no appreciable diff in performance between it and nginx
<newz2000> so pick which ever you're most comfortable with or most likely to get help with
<Amoz> newz2000, that's true
<Amoz> apache is stable as a horse
<Amoz> a little hungry for memory on a 256MB VPS though
<cjohnston> ]/3
<cjohnston> uggh
<newz2000> Amoz: yes, let me get you some commands to help you configure apache
<newz2000> just a min
<Amoz> newz2000, I think it's pretty much config
<Amoz> d
<Amoz> I can see the django debug page
<Amoz> newz2000, http://amoz.dyndns.org:8080/
<Amoz> there
<newz2000> Amoz: here's what I do to get the best performance, considering your low mem I might go a step further though, but hold tight, one thing at a time:
<newz2000> sudo a2dismod \*
<newz2000> sudo a2enmod alias authn_file authz_host cgid deflate env mime reqtimeout rewrite setenvif ssl wsgi
<newz2000> sudo service apache2 restart
<newz2000> I would do that, also reduce the number of apache children to two or three, make sure you have an Alias set up for your static files
<newz2000> turn off debug, make sure your e-mail is in settings.py so you get e-mails if there is a 500 error
<newz2000> if that doesn't work, then you can consider these two options:
<newz2000> put your apache on a high port and put squid or nginx on 80 and set them to be caching proxies with a time-out of 2 seconds.
<newz2000> or switch to fastcgi (either with apache or nginx, though probably now you're in the territory where nginx will shine)
<Amoz> my god newz2000 hold it!
<Amoz> :D
<Amoz> I'm not on a 256MB now
<Amoz> but thanks anyway
<newz2000> oh
<newz2000> :-)
<newz2000> Well, you can still try that stuff out. ;-)
<Amoz> if I'm bored this friday, I will ;)
<newz2000> Def do the first things I suggestd then. a2dismod/a2enmod
<newz2000> that made a big diff even on ec2s with plenty of ram
<Amoz> I can do that later if I find memory low
<Amoz> right now I've got > 2GB cached
<Amoz> so mem is fine :P
<newz2000> no, not for memeory usage
<Amoz> oh
<newz2000> that increased the number of req/sec big time
<newz2000> that code that is enabled all runs in apache so get it out of there and you get more cpu
<newz2000> and if you don't need rewrite or ssl get rid of them too, rewrite alone makes a huge impact
<Amoz> ah, I always have it enabled anyway
<newz2000> I'd wished we could have gotten apache 2.4 in precise. rewrite is far less likely to be needed.
<newz2000> but c'est la vie
<Amoz> apache 2.4 sounds awesome
<Amoz> its footprint is much smaller now OOTB , right?
<newz2000> That's what they say, but I haven't tried it.
<newz2000> I have a close friend who is an apache wizard and is always running the latest code.
<Amoz> wow
<Amoz> wizard
<Amoz> so anyone able to see what's going on here? http://amoz.dyndns.org:8080/
<Amoz> I did , syncdb, migrate
<Amoz> I've got summit.db in summit/summit
<Amoz> I've got local_settings
<Amoz> and my django.wsgi in summit/summit -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/900569/
<mhall119> Amoz: does your apache user have read/write access to summit.db?
<Amoz> -.-
<Amoz> mhall119, thank you for opening my eyes
<mhall119> :)
<Amoz> hopefully that will solve it
<Amoz> sometimes you forget the trivial stuff
<Amoz> :)
<mhall119> sometimes we get so caught up trying to identify a difficult problem, that we overlook the fact that it's really a simple problem
<Amoz> I know, been there maaany times
<Amoz> so frustrating when one spent hours of troubleshooting
<mhall119> I can't even begin to recount the number of hours I've wasted looking for a logic error, when I had a missing semi-colon or something equally trivial
<Amoz> annoying
<Amoz> what would be the best way to let www-data get access to my stuff ?
<Amoz> I'd rather keep my files in home
<Amoz> let www-data be part of my user's group and set stuff to 775 ?
<mhall119> somethign like that, yeah
<Amoz> okay, it's not a permission problem mhall119
<Amoz> not even chmod -R 777 solved it
<mhall119> Amoz: why not just run this from django's manage.py runserver?
<Amoz> mhall119, they warn about making it public
<Amoz> and it crashes a whole lot when syntax and stuff is wrong
<mhall119> Amoz: can you confirm that it does work that way though?
<mhall119> that'll at least let us narrow the problem down
<Amoz> the runserver?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> if it'll run that way, we at least know that it's not a problem with Django
<Amoz> well it's been running before
<Amoz> without problems
<mhall119> on that server?
<Amoz> yep
<mhall119> ok
<Amoz> mhall119, http://amoz.dyndns.org:8080/
<Amoz> here it is with runserver
<mhall119> ok,  so definitely unique to running it through apache
<Amoz> most probably yes
<Amoz> hmm
<Amoz> mhall119, PATH_TRANSLATED	
<Amoz> '/home/alex/dev/summit/summit/django.wsgi/'
<Amoz> could that be a problem?
<mhall119> I don't know
<mhall119> it says it cant open the db file, not that it can't find it...
<Amoz> true
<mhall119> Amoz: try moving/renaming the .db file, and see if the error message changes
<Amoz> same
<Amoz> hmm
<Amoz> I should make an absolute path to the db maybe?
<Amoz> didn't work either
<Amoz> well
<Amoz> this will have to wait
<Amoz> I'll just use the runserver till someone figures it out
<Amoz> thanks for all your help so far
<mhall119> or you can setup a MySQL/Postgres database instead of using sqlite
<Amoz> that may solve the problem
<Amoz> sqlite is so small and easy, that's why I like to use it in dev
<mhall119> yeah, but for multi-process stuff it's locking can be a pain
<Amoz> ah
<Amoz> I suppose
<cjohnston> Amoz: ping
#ubuntu-website 2012-03-27
<Amoz> cjohnston, pong
<cjohnston> Amoz: changes are live
<cjohnston> summit.ubuntu.com
<Amoz> cjohnston, Oh my GOD... it's HIDEOUS!
<mhall119> daker_: how's the visa process going/
<mhall119> ?
<daker_> mhall119, applying for passport this week :/
<mhall119> man, it's going to be tight for you, I hope you get it all done in time
<daker_> mhall119, yes :/
<Amoz> evening all
<cjohnston> o/
<Amoz> cjohnston, oh helo
<Amoz> cjohnston, how are you connected to IRC? bouncer? screen?
<Amoz> just curious if anyone has a nice setup to share
<cjohnston> irssi on byobu
<Amoz> ah
<Amoz> cjohnston, it seems you sometimes can be online from your phone, without leaving/reconnecting
<Amoz> are you using the same byobu/screen solution in that too?
<Amoz> O_O
<cjohnston> i have an app that i can connect to my servers irssi, yes
<Amoz> my god
<Amoz> isn't that kinda hard cjohnston ?
<Amoz> screen on the cell? :P
<Amoz> ctrl+a d
<Amoz> etc
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> its a special aoo
<cjohnston> app
<Amoz> cjohnston, mind saying the name of it? :)
<cjohnston> irssi connectbot
<newz2000> the countdown banners are working, later today I'll get the countdown and wiki pages updated \o/
<newz2000> things are working right on time this release
<cjohnston> yay
<cjohnston> newz2000: whats the URL for the banners
<newz2000> well, you'll be able to get them all here http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown but for now that is a mishmash of last release's info with the first banner from this release
<cjohnston> ahh
<Amoz> newz2000, cool
<newz2000> first: lunch
<cjohnston> you don't need lunch
<Amoz> is that the official ones?
 * cjohnston says as his lunch will be ready in 3 minutes
<newz2000> Amoz: yes
<Amoz> newz2000, great
<Amoz> :D
<newz2000> cjohnston: you're right, I don't, but I do need to go for a walk
<newz2000> and if I don't eat at least something then I'll get grumpy, so I'd better eat
<cjohnston> lol
 * Amoz takes newz2000 for a walk in the channel
<cjohnston> wait, get?
<cjohnston> sorry.. had to
<cjohnston> :-)
<newz2000> :-)
<Amoz> lol
<newz2000> Yeah, you should see it. It's bad.
<cjohnston> you gonna be in CA?
<newz2000> no, not this time around
<cjohnston> :-(
<newz2000> yeah, I know.
<imbrandon> newz2000: :(
<cjohnston> I know, right
<imbrandon> cjohnston: someone jumped the gun on us in -accomplishments-webeditor and pulled ubuntu_website for a one theme
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i emailed and let em know what we had would be ready in a few days etc
<cjohnston> nice
<imbrandon> but thought it was funny
<janos> hi
<janos> is Brandon around?
<imbrandon> me ?
<imbrandon> ahh i just emailed you
<imbrandon> and was just telling chris about it
<janos> guys do you plan big changes to lp:ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-django-theme in the coming days
<imbrandon> yes
<janos> imbrandon: then it's definitely you ;)
<janos> ok
<janos> then we won't rush upgrading yet
<imbrandon> you can have a sneek peek via the -refresh branch but even that will change alot
<imbrandon> yea wait about a week-ish
<imbrandon> just a few days
<janos> no problem at all, and good to know!
<imbrandon> its some pretty signifgant changes lots of updates
<imbrandon> better css and MUCH easier to update again later
<imbrandon> both for us and you
<janos> sounds pretty awesome
<imbrandon> liek you was talking aobut in the email
<cjohnston> once I can talk imbrandon into doing it it will be done
<cjohnston> lol
<janos> well no rush guys
<imbrandon> hahah the django part will be, will be a few more days on wordpress and drupal
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> janos: well we're using it for summit.u.c and some other things is whats pushing the time line so fast
<imbrandon> so no worries there
<janos> yeah I guess you have enough folks on your backs ;)
<imbrandon> lol i dont , i jst growl at em
<imbrandon> chris and newz2000 take all the heat :)
<janos> haha, easier
<janos> growl and sneer
<imbrandon> :P
<imbrandon> cjohnston: since your not on that mailing list here is what i sent btw
<imbrandon> Thats actually a good move Janos, just got the step on me and chris as we're working on a major refresh to the community website themes ( all of them ) and this includes that problematic structure you spoke of and that is changed now and will roll out soon to this and the Django templates as well as Wordpress and Drupal templates too ( we have them all pulling from the base base templates now and done so in such a way it would have solve
<imbrandon> But thats good, it means your about two weeks head of us there and we're all on the same page :)
<imbrandon> fyi
<newz2000> imbrandon: yeah, so much heat I had to take my jacket off
<imbrandon> hehe
<newz2000> imbrandon: iirc, you're in KC aren't you?
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> you just north of here
<imbrandon> i think
<newz2000> yeah, Des Moines
<imbrandon> yup just a little bit, what 3 or 4 hours ?
<newz2000> I think I could make it to the Royals stadium in 3 hyours
<imbrandon> maybe a bit more
<imbrandon> ahh wowo
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> yea i'm like 2 mnites from the stadiums
<imbrandon> i live on that side of town
<newz2000> I don't get down there too often. Most winters at this time when we have a bit of snow on the ground yet and you're getting tulips then I wish I was there, but this year everyone got spring early.
<imbrandon>  Jordan Mantha just took a job here in KC and is herre now too
<imbrandon> not sure if you konw or know of him
<newz2000> I've seen the name
<imbrandon> a long long time MOTU and edubuntu guy
<newz2000> oh, I do remember him
<imbrandon> its funny he loved in reno nv same time as me, and now i came back to kc and he moved here for a job
<newz2000> stalker
<imbrandon> he;s actually a chemistry professor, got a doctorate in it in reno
<imbrandon> i was like wow
<imbrandon> but yea iirc me and him are the only other ones near here, i think there is one or two more in stl
<imbrandon> but thats a ways off
<imbrandon> as for as "offical" conrtibutors of any kind
<newz2000> There is a kernel guy who works in Canonical on the KS side
<imbrandon> i'm sure there are thousands of users
<imbrandon> oh really ?
<imbrandon> and yea jordan is on the kansas side in olathe actually
 * newz2000 strains to remember who
<imbrandon> not ben is it
<imbrandon> benc
<newz2000> no, he's long gone
<imbrandon> kk thought so
<imbrandon> yea i actually worked with him at the next job he had
<imbrandon> after canonical
<imbrandon> it was funny as hell
<imbrandon> got hired and then looked ( only 3 other employeees ) and benc was their kernel hacker
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> so for a few months worked with him ( short gig )
<newz2000> Seth Forshee in Olathe
<imbrandon> ahh not aware of him i dont think , might have to poke him and say hi
<imbrandon> i bet we get lots more soon though
<newz2000> oh?
<imbrandon> fiber is almost done being laid
<newz2000> google fiber?
<newz2000> :-)
<imbrandon> we;re the pilot city for google fiber
<imbrandon> yea
<newz2000> Yeah, I'm quite jealous of that
<imbrandon> 100gig for 80 bux
<imbrandon> syncronus
<newz2000> wow, only $80?
<imbrandon> yup, cuty is subsidiing it ontop of google subsies
<imbrandon> and scholls and gov and uni get it free
<imbrandon> and its both kc mo and kc k now
<newz2000> oh, I didn't know it jumped the border
<imbrandon> but the tech arround here is all in kc k , olathe really, or overland park
<imbrandon> yup yup, the mayor pulled hella strings to get it to
<newz2000> I wonder if you'll be able to get a static IP
<imbrandon> its gonna even hit a few major suburbs
<newz2000> they must be doing something to keep people from running servers
<imbrandon> on the business you can
<imbrandon> they already said that you can they are kinda encouraging it
<imbrandon> they want the "next gen web to be born on this netwerok"
<imbrandon> so will allow things normally they wouldent
<newz2000> yeah, I guess that would be hard if they locked it down
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> but thats hella sweet for someone like me :)
<newz2000> yeah, I've got a few servers running here in my house
<imbrandon> i'm gonna be takin full advantagfe of it any way i can, all ready been buying xservs and mac pros to hook up
<imbrandon> when its live :)
<newz2000> Careful of your power bill. ;-)
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> i used to work at a mom and pop isp back in the day and he had two full racks at his house
<imbrandon> and a t3 ( mid ninties )
<imbrandon> it was the shit
<newz2000> no doubt
<imbrandon> but electricity was outragious
<imbrandon> i rember surfin on that thing, and i had to use windows cuz we couldnt get the nic or video working in redhat 3
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> and i learned linux there actually bcause the radious server was a linux box, but mail and we was win ( ipswitch mail )
<imbrandon> and learned how to make a squid reverse proxy
<imbrandon> man i thought i was the bomb
<imbrandon> lol
<newz2000> you were. ;-)
<imbrandon> ( i was like 16 )
<newz2000> That's the beauty of stuff today. YOu can get an 8 core server with 16+G of RAM for $1k. Same power as 1 5 year old server and better performance than 4 of them.
<imbrandon> and learning all that crap
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> i rember at home hooking up a pentium 60
<imbrandon> to a nother 486 via nic
<imbrandon> cuz i could dial out on the 486
<newz2000> ah yeah
<imbrandon> but not make the modem work in the p60 in linux
<imbrandon> so i dialed up on the 486 and surfed on the console lynx on linux
<imbrandon> trying to find vga drivers
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> man o man that was the days, never wanna go back again
<imbrandon> lol
<newz2000> It was fun having so much free time
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> seemed like it never ended
<imbrandon> but now i am good to have 30 inutes "free"
<imbrandon> and even then i dont rember haf the things i said i would do when i get a moment
<imbrandon> lol
<newz2000> we're old. Gotta sleep now days.
<imbrandon> lol yea
<imbrandon> i am feeling old latly though, not tooo bad, but damn my daughter turns 16 in a few months
<imbrandon> i thouht about that and was like ummm wow
<imbrandon> she should still be 5
<imbrandon> :)
<newz2000> imbrandon: do you ever hear the term "silicon prairie" in your area?
<imbrandon> i seen it on the cover of ink
<imbrandon> one time
<imbrandon> but never hear it spken
<imbrandon> inks that city paper where the whores in the back ( did i say that out loud ? )
<imbrandon> like thrift nickel
<newz2000> There's a big movement here in DSM and Omaha to raise awareness of the geek computer culture
<newz2000> and they've moved into your area
<newz2000> Was curious if they were catching on
<imbrandon> ahhh i bet its comming then
<imbrandon> its probably die to in part the google stuff, they are really pushing that culture here now
<newz2000> Check out Silicon Prairie News
<imbrandon> and there is a google sr VP in overland park , alone in  an office ( shes hot too, shhh ) but they say they dont plan on putting an office here
<imbrandon> i dont see how they cant
<imbrandon> i mean it is the pilot city
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> like have you seen getkansasonline.com ?
<newz2000> Probably all run by contractors
<newz2000> why on earth would I see that? :-)
<imbrandon> yea but i mean long term stuff , i guess that too
<imbrandon> though
 * newz2000 looks
<newz2000> I'm actually rendering video right now and the only thing that isn't slow is the terminal and irc
<imbrandon> hehe take a look, google giving away free hosting and more ( like more than the normal app hosting )
<imbrandon> to kansas business in prep
<newz2000> oh, yeah, they're doing that here too
<imbrandon> yea
<newz2000> targeting small businesses with no IT staff mostly
<imbrandon> and i think oh who is it
<imbrandon> the money appp
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> the money app is in on it too
<imbrandon> ahh crap drawing a blank
<imbrandon> quickbooks, intuit
<newz2000> ah, yes
<newz2000> "money app"
<imbrandon> quickbooks spnsors bying the domain
<imbrandon> and the cool thing is its $1 a month hosting and free for a year and you get a free .com but its not sleexzy
<imbrandon> as in you own it from day one
<imbrandon> and can cancle for even paying a dollar and get the dot come free and clear
<imbrandon> shhhhh
<imbrandon> dont let that get out
<newz2000> I'm doing OK on domains for the moment.
<newz2000> A few too many, actually. :-)
<imbrandon> but like for real, i bought apple-repair-store.com that way to test it
<imbrandon> hahah yea me too
<imbrandon> i counded like 2 nights ago and i got 42 right now
<imbrandon> thouht that was a great number
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> counted*
<newz2000> Until recently I've always used godaddy and I tell you, it is hard to let them expire
<imbrandon> yea
<newz2000> they mail you, call you, email you
<imbrandon> i still use godady as registrar, been too lazy to change em
<imbrandon> but dns etc is all at cloudflare or linode
<imbrandon> yea and let you renew like 2 months after its done
<imbrandon> crazy
<imbrandon> i got 4 right now i'm intentionally letting expire and yea , its in the mid of all that mess
<imbrandon> some .infos
<imbrandon> i let all them go, not worth the effort
<imbrandon> who do you use now, i need to not be lazy and stand up for sopa etc
<imbrandon> maybe i will this week
<imbrandon> heh
<newz2000> gotta remember...
<newz2000> namecheap
<imbrandon> ahh kk, yea i've seen them round
<imbrandon> even thought about getting a twocows reseller acct but i figured i better not
<newz2000> I've only used them on a couple so not convinced I'll use them for everything, but so far so good
<imbrandon> i buy tooo many already
<imbrandon> some ppl collect pens, i seem to collect domains
<imbrandon> and take for ever to devlop them into something
<imbrandon> like when you get a sec check out the landing pages on pixeldrop.net and websitedevops.com , those and brandonholtsclaw.com are my current pet prohjects
<imbrandon> and they look good but just a landing page for ohhhhh 3 months now
<imbrandon> a mancanic never works on his own cars ? heh
<newz2000> yeah
<imbrandon> i do got a solid idea thogh for websitedevops.com gonna turn it into a juju devops gther forum
<imbrandon> hopefully
<imbrandon> least thats the plan
<imbrandon> and i got drupal half bult for it
<imbrandon> just need to finish
<imbrandon> :)
<newz2000> yes, that is my prob too
<imbrandon> and pixeldrop still not quite sute, but something along the lines of a personal brand for me and my web stuff
<newz2000> I have a 90% complete "best eggrool/pizza/bbq" set of apps.
<imbrandon> :)
<newz2000> Did you know that in the english speaking world outside the US they're not called eggrolls,
<newz2000> they're called springrolls?
<newz2000> So now I have to localize my app. :-/
<imbrandon> but i liked the pixeldrop logo, actually drew it before i bought the domain and it was a nice play on the drupal drop stuff
<imbrandon> hahaha right
<newz2000> it is a slick logo
<imbrandon> yea i was goofin off in photoshop and kinda accidently did something similar and then just refined it
<imbrandon> its like the only logo logo i think i ever have done
<imbrandon> but i like it
<newz2000> imbrandon: what are you doing for a day job?
<imbrandon> interviewing
<imbrandon> :)
<newz2000> ah. What for?
<imbrandon> sriously i just left a drupal gig like 3 weeks ago kinda takkin it easy till uds
<imbrandon> was the plan
<imbrandon> :)
<newz2000> gotcha
<imbrandon> then after hitting the payvent hard
<imbrandon> maybe even there a bit with some of the vendors :)
<imbrandon> shh
<newz2000> i know a lot of people who got jobs at/through uds
<imbrandon> http://bholtsclaw.github.com/resume/ :)
<newz2000> take some cards with your name/number if you can
<imbrandon> yea, every uds i've been to they are craling with companies recruiting
<imbrandon> esp since it will be near the valey
<imbrandon> yea
<newz2000> imbrandon: did you design/build this resume?
<newz2000> oh, "yes I coded by hand
<imbrandon> Already got some HP guy emailing me cuz of the OMGubntu stuff
<imbrandon> lol
 * newz2000 sees the source
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> seee
<imbrandon> that was worth it then
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i wondered if ppl looked
<imbrandon> your the first to mention it though
<imbrandon> but its new
<imbrandon> like 2 weeks or less old
<imbrandon> so not many looked yet
<imbrandon> yea i wanna make it darker
<imbrandon> more the blue color on brandonholtsclaw.com
<newz2000> I was inspecting the HTTP headers for http://automattic.com/ one time and saw they've got something similar there.
<newz2000> HEAD http://automattic.com/
<imbrandon> but i finished it in a rush that night because i had a it recruoter in stl on my ass
<imbrandon> stayed up till 3am and did it all in one night
<Amoz> imbrandon, wow, did you design that?
<imbrandon> Amoz: little photoshop and alot of Espresso.app and Zend studo
<imbrandon> :)
 * Amoz making a note about use imbrandon's PS skills next time he wants a website design
<imbrandon> i r full stack dev, from css to js to core php guts , i'll tear it all down
<imbrandon> pixeldrop.net has a bit more of my ps skills
<imbrandon> ( one image )
<imbrandon> the icons at the bottom of my resume i yanked from someehre
<imbrandon> i forget where
<imbrandon> but they are juist social icons
<imbrandon> dime a dozen
<imbrandon> newz2000: not seeing the header on auttomaic
<imbrandon> what am i missing
<imbrandon> you mean the real http header respo, or the <header>
<imbrandon> Amoz: i'm much much more skilled at core php and php logic etc etc , and making webservers fast, but i can and do the front end stuff tooo, too many neew devs focus on one end, i like the whole stack, thus i call my self a "full stack developer" not many are , and even less are good at it, i like to think i am
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> bending drupal and wordpress to my will is fun :)
<Amoz> imbrandon, just curious, did you learn anything the academic way, or is everything homemade knowledge?
<imbrandon> like the first thing i do on a drupal site is add my own preboot.inc.php to fire BEFORE drupal bootstrap.inc that normaly isnt possible but i do it and without hacking core or using php,ini prepend file :)
<imbrandon> Amoz: home made, started in the mid nighies as a teen and never stopped
<imbrandon> ninties
<imbrandon> almost 34 now :)
<Amoz> and you have a 16 yo daughter?
<imbrandon> always refresh and renew the skills
<imbrandon> yea i was a teen my self almost 18
<imbrandon> heh
<Amoz> wow
<imbrandon> was  a little hellyeaon to say the least in my younger years
<Amoz> don't know if this is a question I'm allowed to ask, if so just tell me, but, was it planned? :)
<imbrandon> lots of stuff i souldne t have done etc, but wouldent trade my kiddo for nothin
<imbrandon> ohhh no
<imbrandon> was an oops for sure
<Amoz> i guess one of the best oops
<imbrandon> :)
<Amoz> I hope you're raising her with ubuntu
<imbrandon> some times they are , kids are a pain at times but nothing like them in the world
<Amoz> that's what they keep tellin me
<imbrandon> oh yea, welll on the server , she uses a macbook air at school
<Amoz> hah, she has a server?
<imbrandon> i think i'm still the only core dev that runs osx on the desktop
<imbrandon> yea she has her own file server
<imbrandon> and she piddles with web stuff
<imbrandon> looks like geocities but shes learning
<imbrandon> :)
<Amoz> ^^
<Amoz> <marquee>
<imbrandon> she actually like photograhy and photoshop more than coe though
<imbrandon> but like her dad she CAN shell script if needed
<imbrandon> its funny when she fixes crontabs for her mom
<Amoz> lol
<imbrandon> and gets a nasty look :)
<imbrandon> i love it
<imbrandon> ( me and her mom are divored long ago )
<Amoz> imbrandon, ah, i see.. from one thing to another, are you developing anything with django?
<imbrandon> i can
<imbrandon> and i have for the community dgjango theme
<imbrandon> 'but i dont like to
<imbrandon> i dont really like python much happier in ruby or php
<Amoz> why not? =(
<imbrandon> oython like perl was not ment for the web
<Amoz> you're not trying to explore different languages etc. ?
<imbrandon> its an after thought and show
<imbrandon> Amoz: heh ive used them all over the years
<Amoz> have you done anything cool with them
<Amoz> ?
<imbrandon> from coldfusion to vb6 to php to perl to python to yea themall
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> i did cartoonnetwrk.co.uk grammy.com pets.com
<imbrandon> those are some of the big names you might know
<imbrandon> a tons and tons of smaller sites
<imbrandon> cartoonnetwork.co.uk and .de , my bad typo
<Amoz> :P
<imbrandon> i normaly get to work on one or two cool sites a year :)
<Amoz> the design, or backend or both?
<Amoz> for grammy and pets.
<imbrandon> i've even done the code for ubnutnu.com in one lifetime :) huh newz2000 lol
<imbrandon> drupal for all 4 of those
<Amoz> ubnutnu :D
<imbrandon> and i was the main module coder on pets
<imbrandon> and the main speed and reliabilty engneer on grammy
<imbrandon> and mostly theme stuff on cartoonnetwrk
<imbrandon> but some modules with the tv schedule and stuff
<imbrandon> oh ford.ca is another
<imbrandon> i lead the team that did that
<imbrandon> its not drupal
<imbrandon> its java j2ee with sping framework
<Amoz> heh
<imbrandon> but yea, i've left a mark here and there on the web
<imbrandon> :)
<Amoz> we're doing the java ee and servlets stuff in a course right now
<imbrandon> i code alot on lessphp ( a less implmentatino in phpp ) on github and contrib to twitter bootsrapp too
<imbrandon> yea java stuff is ok, bug projects suck
<imbrandon> but small compartmental ones are ok
<Amoz> I like java :P
<imbrandon> anymore i would use small servlets on zend server and miz the php and java as one
<imbrandon> mix*
<Amoz> then I found python
<Amoz> it's amazing for smaller scripts and such
<imbrandon> and hit your head ?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> maybe smaller but java is still faster
<imbrandon> and much easier to code for
<Amoz> of course
<Amoz> more consistent
<imbrandon> pythin is a nightmare to maintain
<imbrandon> for the web
<imbrandon> for apps its much diff
<Amoz> what's so bad about python on the web?
<imbrandon> but the web stuf was all strapped on a as an after thought and forces mvc even when thats not the best way to do it
<imbrandon> python like perl was not made for it, it shows
<imbrandon> :)
<Amoz> how?
<imbrandon> i'm a big fan of the right tool for the job no matter the lang
<imbrandon> and i do use python ALOT just not on the web
<imbrandon> what do you mean
<imbrandon> how?
<Amoz> you say "it shows"
<imbrandon> how was it an after thought
<Amoz> I suppose "why" is more appropriate
<Amoz> why does it show?
<imbrandon> umm the whole wsgi and force of mvc , it was not arround before then and dosent understand that bad code is good
<imbrandon> thast the biggest reason of all really
<Amoz> isn't that just django? MVC I mean?
<imbrandon> if python would under stand that bad code is actually good sometimes and let the dev make the call then it would overtake php but it cant by design
<imbrandon> Amoz: well yea but put it like this dont use django and then tell me it dont show even more that python was not inteed for the web
<imbrandon> the hooops to jump to do simple http respo
<imbrandon> is nuts
<Amoz> what about another framework, not forcing MVC?
<imbrandon> but a succefful lang of any kind needs to allow bad code, bad code is what makes the world go round
<imbrandon> Amoz: sure but thats just putting lipstick on a pig
<imbrandon> still dont helop my main issue
<imbrandon> of the bad code
<imbrandon> business want it done now, and just to have it work, they dont care if its the best way
<imbrandon> make it work BAD way then go back and fix it
<imbrandon> and again and again
<imbrandon> and like it or not corp  pay for alot of web dev
<imbrandon> so what they want goes
<imbrandon> and if python can do it then python goes
<imbrandon> see ?
<imbrandon> cont*
<imbrandon> cant*
<imbrandon> grrr
<Amoz> you're too quick on the keyboard ;)
<imbrandon> nah damn small bluetooth one
<imbrandon> fat fingers
<imbrandon> need to go get me a replace ment
<Amoz> I see your point, but there are a lot of companies using django, no?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> look outside of the ubuntu world
<imbrandon> i have not see it used ANYWHERE
<imbrandon> like look at yahoo.com its php
<Amoz> why do ubuntu use it then?
<imbrandon> facebook its php
<imbrandon> hell windows asuzure control pannel is php
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> ubuntu likes it because most of their desktop is python
<imbrandon> and lp was a zope app to begin with
<imbrandon> so if all your devs know python to start
<imbrandon> why hire others
<imbrandon> or two sets of devs in the beginin
<imbrandon> you dont you use python :)
<imbrandon> makes $$ sense
<Amoz> so maybe python is filling a gap there?
<imbrandon> and its just stuck, but only here, look at debian its the same thing only with perl, and the whole rest of the internet is either c#.net or php evnen on windows php on iis is nice now a days
<imbrandon> and has alot of bit following
<imbrandon> sure but see its a niche
<imbrandon> and sadly it will stay that way imho
<imbrandon> because its design is some of the core propblems , e.g. they dont want to fix it
<Amoz> so what nice PHP frameworks are there?
<imbrandon> symphony2 zendframework2
<imbrandon> cake
<imbrandon> coke ignighter
<imbrandon> code*
<Amoz> codeigniter?
<imbrandon> ummm and quite a few others
<imbrandon> yea CI
<Amoz> I've been playing around with CI a little
<imbrandon> the first 2 are the ones most ppl use, core use zend and all alse use symphony mostly
<Amoz> I liked the small footprint
<imbrandon> and then drupal and wordpress are popular too
<imbrandon> all have tiny foorpronts now
<imbrandon> by design with php 5.3 classs register auto load lazy load
<imbrandon> and mosule namespaces __NAMESPCE__
<imbrandon> in 5.4
<imbrandon> makers them all tiny memmory
<imbrandon> even what used to be a hog like drupal
<Amoz> okay, I didn't mean footprint then
<imbrandon> i have a drupal 6 site i maintain that avg about 2k hits a minute, not a ton but steady
<Amoz> I meant the actual function part
<imbrandon> and it avg 5mb a page load mem
<imbrandon> thats TINY TINY for drupal
<Amoz> there's just the necessary stuff in the CI core
<imbrandon> ah thats bad imho why even use a framework then
<imbrandon> you dont loose anything but hdd space if you add everything
<imbrandon> and hdd is cheap and php is text :)
<Amoz> that's one way to see it
<Amoz> I liked the nonbloated docs
<imbrandon> lazy class initializatino changes the game
<Amoz> easy to start out with it
<imbrandon> i like no docs tbh, i just read the code ( in php )
<Amoz> instead of having a lot of different complex parameters everywhere
<Amoz> heh
<imbrandon> yea but too much abstraction can be bad tooo
<Amoz> you're not too fond of abstraction I take it
<imbrandon> folowing a inherited classs 4 or 5 deep is a pain and when your on a deadline
<imbrandon> and have real customers hitting the page at 10k a second likem OMGubntu.co.uk was the other day
<imbrandon> you dont have time to pussyfoot with abstractin cuz its pretty
<Amoz> of course not
<Amoz> if someone is, they're doing it wrong
<imbrandon> you need it to be easy and self documenting
<imbrandon> the ide makes it pretty :)
<Amoz> but having a small function for executing just the SQL query and nothing else is neat
<imbrandon> sure but like say in my code , there is no global namespace functions othere than php core
<Amoz> anyway, I'm off
<Amoz> gotta go
<Amoz> cya !
<imbrandon> they are in a class and that class is name spaced
<Amoz> :D
<imbrandon> kk l8tre
<Amoz> nice talking
<imbrandon> u too
<imbrandon> ttyl
<newz2000> ok, countdown page updated, wiki next
<newz2000> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown
<cjohnston> newz2000: only doing one of them this time? aren't normally 2 others offered?
<newz2000> cjohnston: do shift+reload
<cjohnston> ahh
<cjohnston> ya
<cjohnston> y
<cjohnston> yay
<Amoz|> 0_0
<Amoz|> Did I do that?
<Amoz|> cjohnston: django 1.4 :D
<Amoz|> Better form wizardry
<cjohnston> ?
<cjohnston> i see
<cjohnston> ya.. i want to upgrade
<Amoz|> Me too
<cjohnston> wont be till after Connect tho
<Amoz|> I suppose its stupid to change stuff so big weeks before "release"
<Amoz|> Anyway, just checkiin in
<Amoz|> Gotta sleep
<cjohnston> nah... we normally atleast make decent commits the weekend before
<Amoz|> Nite fellas
<cjohnston> and I think the past three UDS's we have made commits during the event
<cjohnston> g'nite
<cjohnston> I'm off... bbl
<Amoz|> Lol
<Amoz|> Stability ftw
<newz2000> ok, wiki page is updated too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/PreciseCountdownBanner#Winners
<newz2000> oops
<imbrandon> newz2000 / cjohnston EtAl: EPIC , i was altready a customer and a huge fan but they got me for good now ,  http://newrelic.com/developers
<imbrandon> 2 min video, check it
<newz2000> Is it a joke (the sound cutting out right in the middle) or did Flash just crash on me?
<newz2000> even if it was a crash, that is pretty awesome timing. :-)
#ubuntu-website 2012-03-28
<imbrandon>                                                     nah its for real
<imbrandon> heh
#ubuntu-website 2012-03-30
<daker> mhall119, nigelb cjohnston can someone explain to me the booking for UDS flight ? and how those things works ?
<nigelb> davidcalle: You email the travel agent mentioned in your acceptance email.
<nigelb> errr
<nigelb> bah
<nigelb> daker: ^^
<nigelb> davidcalle: unping :P
<nigelb> daker: They will ask you to fill up an info sheet and then they will give you flight options out of your nearest airport.
<davidcalle> nigelb, yes I already did :P
<mhall119> daker: yeah, the travel agent will take care of booking everything for you, it's much easier
<nigelb> davidcalle: :)
<Amoz> heh
<Amoz> oh hai
<daker> nigelb, what should i write in this email ?
<nigelb> daker: just tell them you've been asked to contact them about travel to UDS.
<nigelb> daker: they will know what it's about. Is this the netherlands travel agent?
<daker> nigelb, i think it's the btstravel agent
<nigelb> yeah, they're in netherlands, I think.
<nigelb> I remember an expensive international cal on my phone bill when I had to call them.
<czajkowski> daker: the email tells you what you need to give and who to contact given your location
<czajkowski> skype++
<nigelb> (resceduled flights the night more traveling. Fun.)
<daker> czajkowski, no information to add to the email ?
<czajkowski> daker: in the email you received ( i assume you've gotten one to say you're sponsored) you are told which travel agent to contact based on your location
<nigelb> czajkowski: He just asked me what to put in the email, not whom :)
<nigelb> I had that doubt the frst time around too :D
<nigelb> "contact the travel agent" "err, what do I tell them?"
<czajkowski> who you are and where you are flying from and to
<czajkowski> once they have that bit they'll come back to you with rest of the information like dob passport number
<nigelb> they'll come back with that nice info sheet.
<nigelb> that's what BTS does.
<czajkowski> so I'm me I've been sponsred to attend  UDS  I live here and need to fly out from here to here, I need to be there by X date.
<nigelb> daker: ^^
<daker> czajkowski, nigelb ok thanks
<cjohnston> mhall119: i showed you have twidenash is severly broken on summit right?
<cjohnston> well, on the linaro side
<cjohnston> hrm.. it finally started upddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddating
<cjohnston> heh.. updating
<cjohnston> mhall119: http://summit.ubuntu.com/past/  vs  http://summit.linaro.org/past/   Ubuntu shows newest at top, Linaro shows newest at bottom
<Amoz> oh helo
<Amoz> cjohnston, wat up?
<cjohnston> hey Amoz
<Amoz> happening?
<cjohnston> tryin to sort bugs out
<Amoz> ants?
<Amoz> what kind of bugs?
<cjohnston> summit bugs
<cjohnston> although I do have an ant farm on my desk
<Amoz> o.O
<cjohnston> oh
<cjohnston> i had a favor to ask you
<Amoz> the answer is NO!
<cjohnston> :-(
<Amoz> no god NO
<Amoz> NO PLEASE NO
<Amoz> cjohnston, lets hear it
<cjohnston> Amoz: you did that work for the wide screen schedule display
<cjohnston> I'm not sure what branch its in, but I believe all of your branches are out of date.. can you pull down a fresh branch of lp:ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-django-theme and of summit and merge the wide screen changes into that and push it up? please?
<Amoz> I'll see what I can do
<Amoz> btw cjohnston are my fixes pushed to the main trunk ?
<cjohnston> Amoz: what other fixes where there?
<cjohnston> the theme stuff that we were working on together are
<Amoz> where is it?
<Amoz> in the light-django-theme?
<Amoz> or summit?
<cjohnston> both..
<cjohnston> if you tell me what in specific I can tell you
<Amoz> I can't see you giving any credit anywhere :(
<cjohnston> but I *think* the only change of yours that isn't committed to trunk is the wide screen stuff
<cjohnston> I have a blog post coming down the pipe discussing the things that we went through to get the new theme out.. I just need a chance to breathe to finish it
<Amoz> still, would be nice of you to mention me in the commits ;)
<cjohnston> we stopped doing that almost a year ago when tarmac took over merges
<Amoz> sounds evil
<cjohnston> automation ftw
<Amoz> cjohnston, isn't the wide schedule template in summit branch?
<Amoz> not light-django-theme
<cjohnston> yes
<cjohnston> schedule.html iir
<cjohnston> schedule.html iirc
<Amoz> so I pull lp:summit
<cjohnston> yup
<Amoz> there cjohnston
<Amoz> it's in my +junk
<Amoz> wide-summit
<Amoz> lp:~fougner/+junk/wide-summit
<Amoz> fresh lp:summit + my wide fix
<Amoz> should be
<cjohnston> ty
<Amoz> at least :P
<cjohnston> do you know how to propose a merge?
<Amoz> ye
<Amoz> you want me to?
<cjohnston> please.. but it will require that you push to lp:~fougner/summit/wide-summit
<cjohnston> iirc
<Amoz> ah
<Amoz> tru
<Amoz> there
<Amoz> haxd
<cjohnston> ty
<cjohnston> Amoz: now, for Tarmac to pick it up, you need to set a commit message inside of LP... that will be the Commit message that is given when its comitted
<Amoz> huh?
<Amoz> o.O
<Amoz> where?
<cjohnston> https://code.launchpad.net/~fougner/summit/wide-summit/+merge/100236
<Amoz> ah
<Amoz> "Added wide view in schedule"
<Amoz> will that do?
<cjohnston> Fixes wide view in schedule would be more correct
<Amoz> there
<cjohnston> ty
<Amoz> whats next?
<Amoz> are there any more stuff needin porting?
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> i dont think so
<cjohnston> i think we are just back to summit bugs
<Amoz> aw
<Amoz> =(
<Amoz> too bad
<cjohnston> you can work on summit bugs :-)
<Amoz> i'm not as productive on the actual django stuff
<Amoz> are we gonna port it to django1.4? :D
<cjohnston> you said you wanted to learn right?
<Amoz> yeah I know
<cjohnston> after connect maybe
<cjohnston> Amoz: I have something you can work on thats CSS
<cjohnston> Amoz: http://www.linaro.org/remote/panel.php?sd=2012-02-06
<cjohnston> you see how things on that schedule are different than how ours are displayed?
<Amoz> looks horrible
<cjohnston> it looks better on a proper sized monitor
<Amoz> what do you mean "proper" ? :(
<Amoz> my screen is not proper enough for ya?
<cjohnston> ~50 inch wide screen
<Amoz> heck, I'll show you proper!
<cjohnston> it looks bad on mine too
 * Amoz starts hacking
<Amoz> *tacketi tack tack tackitack tack*
<Amoz> so what du you want me to do?
<Amoz> or is there any easy django stuff to do?
<cjohnston> there is a bitesized category for bugs on summit
<Amoz> hmm, isn't that too small maybe?
<cjohnston> I'd like to it works on the monitors IMO
<Amoz> the linaro schedule?
<cjohnston> yes
<cjohnston> I'd like to apply the CSS changes that are made on that page into summit
<cjohnston> brb
<Amoz> cjohnston, you mean you want that kind of design in summit?
<cjohnston> no..
<cjohnston> i just want the CSS changes to the grid view stuff Amoz
<Amoz> you want the new canonical css grid on that site?
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> the css changes that were done to the schedule on http://www.linaro.org/remote/panel.php?sd=2012-02-06 to show up on http://summit.linaro.org/lcq1-12/2012-02-06/display
<Amoz> what "changes" ?
<Amoz> is it in the linaro theme branch?
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> its done through JS and CSS magic I believe as its pulled from summit
<cjohnston> brb.. gotta shower a kid
<Amoz> okay
<Amoz> I'm out as well
<Amoz> gnite
<cjohnston> if you look at the source you will start seeing the stuff
<cjohnston> g'nite
#ubuntu-website 2012-03-31
<cjohnston> Amoz: your branch was merged.. ty
<Amoz> i know
<Amoz> lp sent me mails
<Amoz> cjohnston, wat u do tonite?
<cjohnston> im workin tonight
<Amoz> :O
<Amoz> coo
<Amoz> l
<Amoz> paramedic?
<cjohnston> ehh
<cjohnston> ya
<cjohnston> Amoz: you got anything happening tonight?
#ubuntu-website 2013-03-25
<cjohnston> mhall119: what's your opinion of asking IS to move LTP to a precise box.. there is an issue that would be much easier to get fixed if we get it onto precise
<daker> +1 from me!
<mhall119> cjohnston: fine by me, it can live of the same box as summit again
#ubuntu-website 2013-03-27
<Ronnie> Hey daker, nice team page improvements on the LTP !
<daker> Ronnie: thanks :)
<Ronnie> daker: i was thinking about spending an evening on the LTP again. I saw that the new header on mobile phones incorrectly renders
<Ronnie> its because of the max-width on the .wrapper in combination with the width of the menu
<Ronnie> do you know why its max-width instead of width?
<daker> Ronnie: that's part of the light theme
<daker> i think we can change it
<Ronnie> oke, so should that be changed in the light theme itself or can we just overwrite it in LTP?
<daker> on the light theme
<Ronnie> daker: this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-website-community/ubuntu-website/light-django-theme ?
<daker> Ronnie: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-community-webthemes/ubuntu-community-webthemes/light-django-theme
<Ronnie> daker: is it possible to run TLP dev on 12.04LTS? the make depends halts on python2.6-dev (i only have 2.7)
<daker> Ronnie: well speaking of 2.7 we need to make sure that LTP works with 2.7
<daker> since we are going to move it to a precise box
<Ronnie> in that case ill install 2.7 (change temporary the install file locally)
<daker> so feel free to change anything to make it work 2.7
<daker> with*
<daker> Ronnie: no make a Merge proposal
<daker> then i'll merge it
<Ronnie> but it should also still be working with 2.6 tough?
<daker> if you can, yes.
<Ronnie> and if i cant ;) ?
<daker> it's not the end of the world :)
<Ronnie> phew
<Ronnie> but a 2.7 only merge is acceptable?
<daker> Ronnie: ya i can look into it :)
<Ronnie> cjohnston: are you around, i have a question about google analitycs in light-django-theme
<mhall119> cjohnston: ping
<mhall119> cjohnston: when you can, I need to get the Ubuntu Touch coreapps setup on status.u.c
<mhall119> project series is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-commons/coreapps-13.10
#ubuntu-website 2013-03-28
<hallino1> Giorno
#ubuntu-website 2013-03-31
<cjohnston> mhall119: daker http://91.189.93.67/summit-coverage/ not as bad as I figured it would be
<daker> :)
<daker> nigelb: kick tarmac plz
<cjohnston> daker: they still wont be merged
<daker> they are now
<cjohnston> now that I did something
<daker> i mean merged 8 hours ago
#ubuntu-website 2014-03-30
<slangasek> cjohnston: hi, I have questions about lp:~cjohnston/charms/precise/summit/trunk/, would this be a good place to ask?
<daker> slangasek: i beleive yes
<slangasek> daker: well, ok.  will anyone other than cjohnston know the answers? :)
<daker> slangasek: maybe :)
<slangasek> so my main concern at the moment is the fact that the charm takes separate config parameters for the code vs. the theme
<slangasek> but in practice, it doesn't seem workable for one's changes to be isolated entirely to the theme directory
<slangasek> while using the common code base
<slangasek> so I was wondering how people are using this in practice
<daker> so is this a summit question or charm question ?
<daker> ah charm
<daker> slangasek: so i don't have an answer to this maybe cjohnston knows more about this
<slangasek> well, the question isn't about the charm per se
<slangasek> more about what the expected separation is between the "theme" and "code" branches, since they don't seem very separated to me
#ubuntu-website 2015-03-26
<phillip> Hi, I dont think I should see such an error on your webside: http://partners.ubuntu.com/www.ubuntu.com/management/ubuntu-advantage can someone fix this?
#ubuntu-website 2016-03-29
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> davidcalle, I have a quick MP which will make editing gadget snap info in the developer site easier: https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/store-admin/+merge/290283
<dholbach> nothing big
<davidcalle> dholbach: sure!
<mhall119> davidcalle: is the latest trunk on staging now?
 * mhall119 notices developer.staging.ubuntu.com isn't responding again
<davidcalle> mhall119: no, I haven't looked at it since friday. I'm currently in snap world and prepping the showdown winners announcement, I probably can delay the announcement work and fix staging today
<davidcalle> mhall119: btw, your favorite scope wins :)
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> davidcalle: don't delay the announcement, just let me know where you left off on the devportal work and I'll pick it up from there
<dholbach> mhall119, I have 3 small MPs I still wanted to get in before the next deployment if that's no problem
<dholbach> or do we want to leave them until the next deployment?
<davidcalle> mhall119: on staging, see the end of "mojo-ue-devportal/ue/mojo-ue-devportal/staging/collect" for the last trunk revno/deps revno combo I've tried.
<davidcalle> dholbach: let's get them in, but let's fix the current deps issue first
<dholbach> davidcalle, which one was that?
<davidcalle> dholbach: dependencies fail to be pulled and - for some of them - juju looks like it's trying to pull them from pip instead of the deps branch.
<davidcalle> Sorry, *some* dependencies fail
<dholbach> ho hum.
<davidcalle> thanks mhall119
<mhall119> dholbach: if your MPs are ready we can get them in
<mhall119> I'll start looking at the pip dependency issues today
<dholbach> mhall119, http://pad.lv/mps/developer-ubuntu-com
<mhall119> davidcalle: when you reset the pip-cache branch, did you include a commit to devportal trunk resetting pip-cache-revno.txt as well?
#ubuntu-website 2016-03-30
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> davidcalle, do we have any news wrt deployment?
<davidcalle> dholbach, I need to check if Mike progressed on it yesterday. Will do that in 1h, currently fixing a flat tire...
<dholbach> davidcalle, thanks and good luck!
<davidcalle> Half-way between home and office :D
 * dholbach hugs davidcalle 
<davidcalle> dholbach: went faster than I expected, looking at the deployment.
<davidcalle> There have been a few changes: /me tries
<dholbach> davidcalle, what did we deploy where? :)
<davidcalle> dholbach: staging/167 dependencies/28
<davidcalle> dholbach: ~what we merged last week + a few fixes for the deployment
<dholbach> and that's going to staging?
<dholbach> I'm just asking because of https://code.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+activereviews
<davidcalle> dholbach: I know, I'll merge this as soon as the Â¡$%#& thing is happy  :)
<davidcalle> Yes, to staging
<dholbach> awesome, you're a hero <3 <3 <3
<dholbach> one of the MPs will allow us to fix stuff in the store data if necessary
<davidcalle> "distutils.errors.DistutilsError: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse('pbr>=1.8')"
<dholbach> hohum
<dholbach> I have it installed locally
<dholbach> maybe that's why it didn't fail
<dholbach> maybe time to add it to requirements.txt and to pipcache
<dholbach> do you have the full stacktrace?
<dholbach> it'd be nice to figure out what exactly requires it
<dholbach> can we add comments to requirements.txt?
<dholbach> that way we could spell out what exactly needs it
<davidcalle> dholbach: pbr is in the dependencies branch
<davidcalle> 1.8.1
<dholbach> bizarre
<davidcalle> dholbach: I'm adding it explicitely in requirements to see if it makes a difference
 * dholbach crosses fingers
<dholbach> does it explode for you locally too?
<davidcalle> dholbach: works fine locally
<dholbach> davidcalle, do you have pbr installed?
<davidcalle> dholbach: I do. But I'm not sure the issue is explicitely with pbr, last week it was pilow missing in the exact same way.
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> can we run a local        ./env/bin/python -c 'import PIL'                to test?
<dholbach> and do we have the full stacktrace?
<davidcalle> dholbach: sure, let me get you both
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> or ./env/bin/python -c 'import pbr'
<davidcalle> dholbach: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15558242/
<davidcalle> dholbach: I need to wait for machines to be fully up to ssh, in ~10 min
<dholbach> does this indicate the dep chain? keystoneclient â positional â pbr?
<dholbach> davidcalle, no worries
<davidcalle> dholbach: I'm unsure
<dholbach> that's how I read the log
<davidcalle> dholbach: on the machine: no PIL, no pbr.
<dholbach> even though they're part of the cache?
<dholbach> anything in env/lib/python2.*/*-packages/?
<davidcalle> dholbach: and running "pip install --exists-action=w --download pip-cache/ -r requirements.txt" on the machine, with a full pip-cache/, tries to download eg. beautifulsoup4
<dholbach> which pip version is it?
<davidcalle> 1.5.4
<davidcalle> Wow, just checked the version I'm running locally
<dholbach> maybe it needs a newer pip(?)
<dholbach> pip-cache has pip-7.1.2-py2.py3-none-any.whl
<dholbach> so that's not used either
<davidcalle> dholbach: there is no pip in the cache
<dholbach> davidcalle, it was removed in the meantime
<davidcalle> dholbach: should I try to add it to requirements?
<dholbach> it was removed in r27..28
<dholbach> I don't know if it's going to help
<dholbach> but maybe worth a try?
<davidcalle> dholbach: yeah, trying
<davidcalle> dholbach: I've tried several variations, without luck. I'm repushing the latest deployable version on staging. Let's not block importer fixes anymore. Do some of your changes require a components upgrade?
<dholbach> no, not necessarily
<davidcalle> dholbach: looks like pip-cache install passed fine. I don't know if it's due to a specific new version of a component not working well on trusty or the lightweight checkout. If it's the latter, maybe we can use lightweight checkout only in a "make dev" context?
<dholbach> hohum... I thought that was the case
<davidcalle> dholbach: looks like you are right
<davidcalle> dholbach: then, it's something else. Either a component that has been removed and is somehow essential in our staging stack or a buggy one.
<dholbach> davidcalle, maybe    ./env/bin/python -v -c 'import PIL'
<dholbach> and ./env/bin/python -v -c 'import pbr'
<davidcalle> dholbach: I'll try it
 * davidcalle lunch, see you in a bit :)
<dholbach> enjoy
<Moe> Hey everyone
<Moe> I was wondering .. does anybody know what type of bluetooth keyboard and mouse are used for the Ubuntu tablet presentation on ubuntu.com/tablet ?
<Moe> And if not .. who would be able to answer that question? :)
<davidcalle> Moe: good question. Worth asking in #ubuntu-touch.
<Moe> davidcalle: I did, they didn't no any specifics .. I was wondering about who to contact at Canonical concerning this :)
<Moe> *know
<davidcalle> Moe: the best person would probably be yaili, who designed the page (see: http://design.canonical.com/2016/02/a-new-look-for-tablet/), she often comes in this chan, but she doesn't seem to be around today
<Moe> davidcalle: That's great, thank you for the pointer <3
<dholbach> maybe just send a mail to the mailing list?
<Moe> I'll do that as well, cheers
<Moe> Is it active though? The last email to the list shows as May 2015
<davidcalle> Moe: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net is the most active one
<Moe> Ah, that one's different from the link in the topic .. I guess?
<dholbach> Moe, this channel is about the website
<Moe> Ah right, sorry, I didn't see the obvious difference
<Moe> My bad
<dholbach> no worries :)
<mhall119> davidcalle: dholbach: was there a need to update the pip requirements after the last deployment?
<mhall119> one of them is giving me all kinds of trouble during deployment
<davidcalle> mhall119: dholbach told me there wasn't, so I'm about to strip these changes. For now, I'm renewing the security cert of the site
<davidcalle> mhall119: *I"m about*, well, that's the plan, but if you have another idea... :)
<mhall119> davidcalle: I'm working on staging atm, so please hold off on making any changes
<mhall119> I've already done some work on the spec and dependencies branch
<davidcalle> mhall119: ok, note that I've downgraded staging to a working version, you need to change collect values and redeploy
<mhall119> davidcalle: when did you do that?
<davidcalle> mhall119: this morning, which allowed to discover that our security cert is expired
<davidcalle> (see #is)
<mhall119> I love the "Oh yeah, that's something you guys are responsible for, surprise!"
<davidcalle> yep
<davidcalle> Reading the doc and still trying to figure out the value of $cn. Hint, it's not "developer.staging.ubuntu.com"
<davidcalle> Anyway, I'm logging out of wendigo, good luck :)
<mhall119> should change the motd on wendigo to "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"
<Moe> :D
<davidcalle> mhall119: any luck with wendigo?
<mhall119> I'm trying to unknot the problem with our deps
<mhall119> one of them is trying to pull in another dep, but it's always trying to get it from pypi.org rather than pip-cache
#ubuntu-website 2016-03-31
<dholbach> good morning
<davidcalle> dholbach: when is the d.u.c meeting with Thibaut?
<dholbach> aucune idÃ©e
<dholbach> ah, 17:00 - it's in dpm's calendar
<dpm> dholbach, davidcalle, invitations sent
<davidcalle> dpm: thanks and welcome back :)
<dpm> davidcalle, thanks :)
<dpm> I've invited you guys to another documentation meeting tomorrow
<dpm> after the chat I had with ev last week, davidcalle's suggestion with hosting scopes documentation in markdown, and the snappy docs being in github
<dholbach> dpm, so we drop the snappy docs from dev.u.c?
<davidcalle> dpm: yes, just seen it
<davidcalle> dholbach: I think it's about their upstream location before reaching duc (?)
<dpm> dholbach, yeah, not really about dropping documentation, I think we need to have d.u.c as the central place for docs
<dpm> davidcalle, yea
<dpm> h :)
<dholbach> ok... so just where we import it from? ok
<dpm> exactly
<dholbach> bzr and git are both fine ... once we land the newest we should be good to go
<davidcalle> dpm: dholbach: btw, deployment: I need to sync up with Mike today to see if he wants to continue solving the pip issue (currently blocking) or if we revert pip updates we have in trunk and deploy today.
<dpm> davidcalle, I'm still catching up. Would you mind giving me the tl;dr about this pip issue?
<dholbach> feel free to revert the pip cache update
<dholbach> I think it'd be nice if we could solve it some time soon, so we can regularly benefit from upstream fixes
<dholbach> but if we can get all the other stuff for now and then look into updating, that's absolutely fine with me too
<davidcalle> dpm: the charm we are using to handle the django part of the deployment is not behaving well with upgraded pip dependencies: it tries to pull some of them from the web (which doesn't work) instead of the dependencies branch.
<davidcalle> dholbach: I think Mike wanted to dig a bit deeper first
<dholbach> thanks davidcalle
<dholbach> you both are heroes
<davidcalle> dpm: we don't need this depenendency upgrade right now, so we will likely revert it and keep all the other goodness
<davidcalle> "depenendency" -> we dug too deep!
<dpm> :)
<dpm> davidcalle, could you remind me where our mojo spec lives?
<davidcalle> dpm, trunk of https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-is/canonical-mojo-specs in ue/mojo-ue-devportal
<dpm> awesome, thanks
<dpm> dholbach, does the markdown importer for snappy docs support both LP and github?
<dholbach> dpm, yes
<dholbach> although I haven't tried with LP git yet
<dpm> dholbach, thanks. Np, I was asking just to have a rough idea
<dholbach> but in general, yes, both is possible
<dpm> dholbach, davidcalle, do you know which formats the API docs importer for the phone supports? I know of qdoc, doxygen...
<dpm> but I can't remember how the JS API docs are imported, for instance
<dholbach> import_cordova.py  import_qdoc.py    import_yuidoc.py
<dholbach> import_doxygen.py  import_sphinx.py
<dholbach> dpm, ^
<dpm> ah, nice, thanks!
<dholbach> I think the JS bits were YUI
<dholbach> but I'm not 100% certain
<dholbach> yep, just checked
<dpm> cool, thanks
<dpm> davidcalle, dholbach, so I think looking at the site, a review of the IA would make sense. I think the phone part dominates quite a bit, and the snappy/IoT/core/$whichevernameoftheday is something we put there in between because we needed it, but now it's growing on it's own and disconnected from the rest of the site
<dpm> pun intended: I think we need to converge there too :)
<davidcalle> dpm: dholbach: I'm all for convergence, but let's make sure we are not converging our topics "too early" and diverge too much from the reality of what's available.
<dpm> davidcalle, I probably shouldn't have used "converge", and I do see your point. I think things like Personal are definitely not yet there to put them in the site, so I agree here. But I think we need to a) think about and bear in mind convergence in the future, for app developers and b) most importantly now, have a clear journey for app developers by 16.04, given all the technologies that will be available
<davidcalle> dholbach: I do agree that Snappy is not IoT only, but that's where all the focus is, as per Thibaut/Didier proposal
<dholbach> davidcalle, dpm, I'm agreeing with all you're saying
<dholbach> maybe we can think of something that'c clearer
<dpm> ok, we're done then, let's go to the bar :)
<dpm> In any case, there are enough technologies and mixes atm that we need to be careful how we present them not to confuse folks
<dpm> i.e. we haven't even started talking about the unity 8 session preview on the desktop or libertine
 * dpm sees them as low priority for d.u.c in any case
<dholbach> davidcalle, dpm: how about continuing to call it Core and keep linking from ubuntu.com/things and other places? :)
<davidcalle> dholbach: that's a possibility, yes. We can do this and find a way to provide clear IoT paths on the landing page.
<dholbach> but opening a Phone section and moving apps and scopes there, makes a lot of sense
<dpm> dholbach, I'm not sure. I think "IoT" or "Things" is easier to understand for developers, as "Core" is very much an Ubuntu-specific term
<dholbach> it'll be interesting to see how we move/extend/rename that once we have unity8 on the desktop
<dpm> I think that's where Personal will come in
<dholbach> dpm, IoT and things is easier to understand, it's just that Core is already more generic than IoT and what we have in terms of docs in unspecific to IoT (as I said earlier) ... I was just trying to come up with something which reflected the immediate reality well, and it was our status quo O:-)
<dholbach> davidcalle, would we move the snappy/community bits into community too?=
<davidcalle> dholbach: great idea
<dpm> +1
<davidcalle> That's something we could converge without too much confusion
<dholbach> yep, agreed
<davidcalle> Use case: a developer who wants to publish an app for "Ubuntu 16.04". What's his clear path. Do we explain "Core" to him or do we put a sign saying "Desktop". Maybe we can do both: a persistent call to action on the landing page for Desktop apps: "Ubuntu Core allows you to etc." and a Core menu entry, both reaching the same page. Now, let's say we do the
<davidcalle> same thing for an IoT board/app developer. Do we end up with a confusing landing page?
 * davidcalle is thinking out loud
<dholbach> Whatever we decide to call the tabs or nav links on the page, we're going to need a very clear landing page. :-)
<dpm> yep, I was going to say the same thing as dholbach :)
<dholbach> maybe we could even have a "ship an app" landing page on the top level? :-)
<davidcalle> New top level IA proposal: Design it | Craft it | Ship it  ;-)
<dholbach> <3
<dpm> I think we should go the minimalistic way - "Do it"
<dholbach> davidcalle for president!
<dholbach> you have my vote
<davidcalle> Speaking of clear landing pages: http://jp.ubuntu.com-master.demo.haus/
 * davidcalle finds the first grey row of ^ very nice and clear
<davidcalle> dpm, "Do it", then a maze of choices: "Pick your technology", "Pick your target", "Pick your framework"... :)
<davidcalle> dholbach: <3
<dpm> of course, let's just hide the complexity under the top level :)
<dholbach> I'll try again to see if I can log into unity8 - bbiab
 * davidcalle brb, fetching coffee
<dpm> dholbach, any luck?
<dholbach> dpm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1543192 I'm afraid not
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1543192 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in OsAbort()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dpm> argh
<dholbach> but maybe that's unrelated - what I'm doing is:
<dholbach>  - log out from unity7, see lightdm pop up
<dholbach>  - try to login to unity8, see something flicker, see lightdm pop back up again
<dholbach>  - try to login to unity7, see something flicker, see lightdm pop back up again
<dholbach> so I need to go back to the console to restart lightdm
<dholbach> and then I can go and login to unity7
<davidcalle> dpm: dholbach: I've sent you an invite to a Chrome app, just to try and brainstorm more visually, feel free to play with it, I need to be afk for a short moment
<dholbach> cool
<dpm> ok, thanks!
<dpm> dholbach, what I had to do was to ensure that the cgmanager service was running
<dpm> unrelated, but another trick
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> davidcalle, nice work!
<davidcalle> dholbach?
<dholbach> davidcalle, in the coggle thing
<davidcalle> Ah! Thanks, trying to figure a way to get all our options in front of us
<dholbach> davidcalle, would it make sense in proposal 2 to have "unity7 snaps" under "core" and "writing a unity8 app" in "personal"?
<davidcalle> dholbach: makes sense
<dholbach> davidcalle, I just added them to the proposal... not in an attempt to make this final, but to visualise where the "desktop" section would go
<dholbach> feel free to rearrange or rephrase
<dpm> dholbach, davidcalle, I think I'm going to add a link to the coggle thing in the proposal doc
<dholbach> cool
<dpm> davidcalle, is proposal #1 yours? I like it, but I'm not too sure about "Store" - it might lead to think that we're offering a web view to the store, which we aren't
<dholbach> dpm, there are discussion about moving the /publish docs to myapps itself
<davidcalle> dpm: I just wasn't sure about keeping a verb when the rest are nouns. Store is a bit misleading, I agree.
<dpm> davidcalle, and another question, do we need to explicitly invite people to see coggle, or can we just share the link?
<dholbach> well... we had the discussions since we started developer.u.c, but beuno recently said they'd do it
<davidcalle> dholbach: I don't see this happening soon honsetly
<davidcalle> oh
<dholbach> and assigned the bug to stevenbiscuit
<dpm> dholbach, yeah, good point I remember that, but I don't think much has happened
<dholbach> but that was 3 weeks ago
<dholbach> I can find out what's happening
<dholbach> it'd give us the benefit of handing over maintenance to them and they'd probably be quicker to update screenshots and stuff if necessary
<davidcalle> dpm: I think you can simply share the link, invite is only to add editors. btw, do you have the "+" button at the top to add editors?
<dpm> I do, thanks
<dholbach> that's a really neat tool
<dpm> it is! I wished it had existed when we did the IA rearrangements in d.u.c in the past
<dpm> or that we had known about it. Good call davidcalle
<dpm> hey didrocks o/
<didrocks> hey dpm :)
<davidcalle> dpm: dholbach: stumbled upon it earlier today ;)
<davidcalle> Hey didrocks o/
<dpm> davidcalle, it makes IA rearrangement even fun ;)
<didrocks> hey davidcalle!
<davidcalle> dpm: let's create a Django app for it -> Link it to Django CMS -> Manage our live IA with it -> Call it "Juju for Docs"
<dholbach> davidcalle, somebody should create a djangocms-redirect plugin :-P
<davidcalle> dholbach: heh :)
<davidcalle> Scrap "Juju for Docs", we call it "Make Your Own D.U.C" with public edit rights. IA problem solved.
<dholbach> d.u.cAAS
<davidcalle> Genius.
<dholbach> davidcalle, dpm: stevenbiscuit replied and said "AFAIK yes, certainly the store related help documents are going to move under myapps."
<davidcalle> nice
<dpm> dholbach, davidcalle, didrocks, related to the conversation we had today, I'd like to have (yet!) another chat about importing markdown documentation vs. the CMS. Would you guys have time some time tomorrow early?
<dholbach> sure
<davidcalle> dpm: sure
<dpm> ah, I think Didier mentioned he had to go to another meeting right now
<davidcalle> dpm: btw, has the meeting about location of upstream doc been really moved to 9pm today?
<dpm> davidcalle, yeah, dholbach was pinging ev about this earlier on. I definitely can't do it at that time :/
<davidcalle> Same
<dholbach> yeah
<dpm> dholbach, were you on that thread where they were discussing times?
<dpm> I replied earlier on to say the time worked for me... and then they changed it
<dholbach> dpm, I pinged ev in #canonical
<dpm> dholbach, yeah, I saw that. He asked you to reply on that thread, but I'm not sure if you were in the CC, that's why I'm asking, as I didn't know if you'd seen it
<dholbach> ah sorry, no - I don't think I was CCed
<dpm> dholbach, indeed you weren't. Replied with an alternative proposal and CC'd you
<dholbach> thanks
<dpm> davidcalle, it seems Peter has got only a slot available in his calendar tomorrow morning. Are you comfortable with being "the mojo spec expert" if mhall119 is not in there?
<dpm> I bet mhall119 is chuckling at not being at the call :)
 * mhall119 is glad nobody can see him doing his happy dance
<dpm> :)
<didrocks> dpm: isn't that on the one we would have tomorrow already?
<didrocks> with Peters?
<didrocks> I'm unsure I would have a slot TBH, I have some demo deadlines already before I go on holidays
<didrocks> and etoomanymeetings ;)
<dpm> didrocks, with Peter it was about moving to a megamenu (I think that's what he calls it), I don't think he's interested in which format we use for importing
<didrocks> I guess that was about this as well
<didrocks> the import
<didrocks> but if not, yeah, we need one for actions
<didrocks> can we have one with Peter first to check, and then, if not addressed, we have the second one, mind you?
<dpm> didrocks, nw, I can have a chat with dholbach and davidcalle. I wanted to talk specifically about importing
<didrocks> dpm: well, I guess this is about the generation of content
<didrocks> which is what my backend is doing, sounds related at least :p
<dpm> it is indeed related, but to me it's more about going deeper into the change of moving from a CMS approach to an upstream import approach, which I'm not sure Peter would be interested in
<didrocks> IIRC, Thibaut mentioned he was
<didrocks> (but that was last week)
<didrocks> so, let's see what the meeting is tomorrow with Peter on the technical side
<didrocks> if not addressed, let's talk about that on Monday/Tuesday?
<didrocks> (because yeah, this is part of the doc draft)
<dpm> davidcalle, dholbach, I've added the "Long-term proposal IA" to the coggle
<dholbach> cool, thanks
<dpm> ok, and with this, I call it a day
<dpm> see you all tomorrow!
<dholbach> see you! :)
<davidcalle> mhall119: I've fixed the certificate situation for d.s.u.c
<davidcalle> mhall119: d.s.u.c deployed with the new changes :) Still missing the three branches Daniel wants, though.
<davidcalle> mhall119: merged (only 2, the 3rd was a components update) and deploying on staging.
<davidcalle> \o/
#ubuntu-website 2016-04-01
<dholbach> good morning
<davidcalle> dholbach, staging back on track, morning =)
<dholbach> wow wow
<dholbach> so the pip cache update is reverted, but everything else is in?
<davidcalle> yes!
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> great work!
<dholbach> shall I file a bug with an MP for the update, so we can track it?
<davidcalle> good idea
<davidcalle> brb
<davidcalle> dholbach: let's make sure to test the importer on staging today
<dpm> davidcalle, dholbach, good morning! I haven't heard back from Peter to see if he can make it to the mojo spec meeting in ~30, but it was the only slot in his calendar. If he doesn't show up, let's use the time to talk about importing upstream docs in general
<davidcalle> dpm: good morning! +1
<dholbach> oh ok, in 30m
<dholbach> wfm
<dpm> dholbach, yeah, as it was for the mojo spec I had not initially invited you. But seeing no one from the design team accepted yet, we might as well use the time
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> davidcalle, so https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/developer-ubuntu-com/update-components/+merge/289937 right now is the only bit which hasn't landed yet or did we need to revert anything in trunk?
<dholbach> davidcalle, for showing examples maybe we could do something like https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snapcraft/tree/master/examples/libpipeline - ie show the directory contents, maybe show a README.md that's in the directory - or something like that
<dholbach> from a workflow POV I think that'd be straight-forward and well-understood - we'd just need to figure out how to do it in djangocms
<mhall119> davidcalle: I'm testing the API docs release management now, if it all looks good can we file an RT to go to production?
<mhall119> or do you and dholbach have things that still need to be tested on staging?
<dholbach> do we have recent data on staging?
<dholbach> can we download recent data somewhere?
<mhall119> not in the CMS, I'm running an import of the API docs
<mhall119> we can ask for a new database dump from production, like we did before the big django upgrade
<dholbach> that'd be great
<mhall119> API docs release managment is working properly \o/
<mhall119> davidcalle: do you recall which RT you asked for the last database dump on?
<davidcalle> mhall119: excellent! Nothing specific to test on my end, but I'm ahppy to help test anything.
<davidcalle> dholbach: mhall119 : it was rt #86900
<davidcalle> https://portal.admin.canonical.com/86900
<dholbach> I need to test the importer
<dholbach> but for that it'd be good to have some live data
<davidcalle> dholbach: mhall119: any of you filed the rt yet?
<dholbach> I'm in meetings right now
<davidcalle> dholbach: I know, sorry I can't join :/
 * davidcalle files rt
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> thanks davidcalle
<davidcalle> dholbach: mhall119 : rt #90254, forgot to put you on copy, will do if there are any follow-up messages
<dholbach> thanks davidcalle
<mhall119> davidcalle: not yet, had a dog emergency :(
<mhall119> thanks for taking care of it
<davidcalle> mhall119: nw!
<dholbach> mhall119, everything allright?
<mhall119> dholbach: dog got out of the fence and was way down the street
<dholbach> ouch ouch
<mhall119> found her, she's okay, but now I have a hole in my fence that I need to fix
<davidcalle> ouch
#ubuntu-website 2017-04-01
<sam_wong> what does this message mean? Escape character is '^]' after successfully logging in a telnet server
#ubuntu-website 2019-03-28
<thecoder3281f> hi
