#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-27
<slomo> pitti: can we get gstreamer0.10 and gst-plugins-bad0.10 synced again? :) the latter only is the final release now, no code changes only translation updates... the former is http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstreamer/gstreamer/libs/gst/base/gstbasetransform.c.diff?r1=1.127&r2=1.128  (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557649)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 557649 in gstreamer (core) "GstBaseTransform can cause ivalid memory references" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<pitti> slomo: default answer is "no, needs to go into SRU" now; slangasek coordinates CD builds now, so if it's super-urgent, you need to convince him :)
<pitti> slomo: but I don't think it's a release breaker, is it?
<slomo> pitti: no, it would be just nice to have... sru sounds good then ;)
<mvo> seb128: did you get my mail about gnome-terminal ?
<seb128> mvo: no
<mvo> seb128: hm, let me bounce it to you again
<seb128> ok
<seb128> or discuss on IRC directly?
<mvo> seb128: is it there now?
<seb128> mvo: I'm working on an evolution bug fix upload which has to land before the next publisher run in 15 minutes so wait
<mvo> seb128: ok, sorry for being pushy, I was just a bit worried that my mail might be broken (or eating mails)
<huats> morning all
<huats> hey crevette
<huats> o/ seb128
<crevette> hello there
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> mvo: ok, got the mail this time, I might have spammed it before by mistake or something
<seb128> mvo: it's late now for changes, keeping the current version seems fair enough
<mvo> thanks
<pochu> pitti, slomo: hello! gst-plugins-bad is not on the CDs ;)
<pochu> (it's in universe)
<Laney> mvo: Hey, didn't manage to catch you before. I guess updating g-t is out (reading the above)?
<mvo> laney: did you get my mail?
<mvo> laney: unless I miss something the current version is good, no?
<Laney> I think it has a crash bug
<Laney> but other than that, basically yes
<mvo> laney: hm, which bit (or commit) of 2.24.1 -> 2.24.1.1 is that?
<mvo> laney: I went through the diff and my impression was that its just a revert of the previous commit
<Laney> Hold on, I'm just testing
<mvo> laney: if there is a crash fix missing, I will do a SRU
<Laney> mvo: It seems fine, my bad.
<mvo> excellent, thanks for testing laney
<mvo> and sorry that this all took so long to resolve, but its busy times :)
<mvo> (or time?)
<Laney> I understand
<Laney> "it's a busy time"
<Laney> I expect a bug about the missing keybinding editor options though
<mvo> right, we will have to point them to gconf (or you could do a version in your PPA or the gnome team PPA) with the editor
<Laney> I don't have access to the gnome team PPA
<Laney> but I'll just push what's in the bzr branch to mine
 * mvo nods
<Laney> Ooh! Couple of interesting kernel talks at uni today
<Laney> someone from redhat is here
<tedg> mpt: So, if we use "Available" should the "Offline" got "Unavailable" then?
<tedg> I guess that's what busy is for.
 * tedg lines "disconnected" but that's probably too long.
<mpt> What's wrong with Offline?
<tedg> s/lines/likes/
<tedg> It seems like Online and Offline match.  Changing one should imply changing the other?
<mpt> ah
<mpt> but no
<mpt> That was precisely why Online needed changing: because it *wasn't* the opposite of Offline.
<tedg> Okay, I can see that.
<asomething> Anyone know what happened to gnome-font-viewer? I think it was part of gnome-control-center. I still have a desktop file for it in my menu, but the program doesn't appear to exist any more. I don't see anything in gnome-control-center's changelog about it being removed...
<dobey> there was never a gnome-font-viewer in gnome-control-center afaicr
<dobey> if there's a menu item still in your menu, it's probably because you customized/created it at some point, and it's till in your ~/.local/share/applications/ folder
<asomething> hmmm... the desktop file has these fields: X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Product=gnome-control-center
<asomething> X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gnome-control-center-2.0
<dobey> hrmm. i don't know. perhaps it was a part of the fonts:/// vfs thing, and that was in control-center
<awalton__> it was
<asomething> it is in ~/.local/share/applications/ folder, so it's not a bug in the upgrade process. I must have added it myself. Though I'd still like to the program. I guess I'll just have to use gnome-specimen or something. thanks...
<awalton__> fontilus and the theme one too lived in g-c-c
<asomething> hmmm... gnome-specimen doesn't seem to be able to look at uninstalled fonts. any ideas for a  gnome-font-viewer replacement?
<lapo> hi
<seb128> hey lapo
<lapo> ciao seb128
<Keybuk> seb128: who is upstream for xchat-gnome?
<Keybuk> is there one?
<lapo> I just upgraded to intrepid, nice work guys slick upgrade
<lapo> Keybuk: David Trowbridge IIRC
<lapo> purplecow or something on irc
<seb128> Keybuk: nobody is really working on it nowadays, cassidy was working on it some months ago but stopped since apparently, chpe did code cleaning and update but he does that randomly on GNOME components so I would not call him a maintainer either
<seb128> Keybuk: why?
<Keybuk> it really annoys me that when you focus the window, the notification icon goes away
<Keybuk> even if you don't read the message it was notifying you about
<Keybuk> so I fixed it :p
<cassidy> I think chpe is the one closer the be the new xchat-gnome maintainer
<Keybuk> now the notification icon stays as long as you have unread messages
<cassidy> as nobody else worked on it since months
<seb128> Keybuk: bugzilla it
<Keybuk> it's sufficiently invasive that I didn't really want to do that without talking to the maintainer
<seb128> Keybuk: try talking to chpe on the gnome irc then
<Keybuk> thanks
<seb128> mvo: bug #289950, can you look if you get the issue when using alsa? I bet that's another pulseaudio issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289950 in totem "hangs when opening a spx file without a working soundcard" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289950
<mvo> seb128: sure, give me a sec (you are quick!)
<mvo> seb128: hm, does not seem to make a difference, but I get some debug output I think
<seb128> mvo: can you get a stacktrace of totem while it's hanging?
<mvo> seb128: hm, looks ike it does not honor when I switch with gstreamer-properties to alsa
<mvo> the message is "gst_pluseink_prepare()
<seb128> stop pulseaudio the time to try?
<mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/63316
<mvo> killal pulseaudio
<mvo> helps
<seb128> ok, either gstreamer, alsa or pulseaudio then
<seb128> I think I got the issue in a virt-manager while trying the rc too
<seb128> I've no real clue what is to blame but since that's only an issue when trying to play sound on a machine which has no soundcard I think I'll not bother too much for intrepid
<seb128> you can restart your pulseaudio ;-)
<jcastro> Is packagekit a blessed gnome dependancy yet?
<dobey> jcastro: i don't think so
<crevette> jcastro, nope
<dobey> jcastro: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentythree/ExternalDependencies
<jcastro> thanks guys
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-28
<Onkabetse> Hi,are there any tutorials that can help me get started in developing desktop applications in ubuntu ?
<andreasn> Onkabetse: maybe this one: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/gtktutorial/
<Onkabetse> andreasn,thanks ,that will get me going .
<andreasn> post a e-mail to http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-app-devel-list/ if you have any issues, people are usually pretty quick to help
<didrocks> morning o/
<huats> morning everyone !
<didrocks> hi huats ;)
<seb128> lut didrocks huats
<huats> hello seb128 and didrocks
<didrocks> lut seb128 !
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-29
<bozza> hi all
<bozza> any one here >?
<huats> morning everyone
<mvo> good morning seb128 and huats
 * mvo yawns
<seb128> hey mvo!
<seb128> mvo: up late?
<seb128> or just still waking up now? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: still waking up :)
<seb128> it's team time then ;-)
<mvo> I got woken up by the phone at 8!
<seb128> tea rather
<seb128> oh?
<mvo> (health insurance calling)
 * seb128 doesn't like to woken up by the phone
<huats> seb128: +1
<mvo> tea time and team time :) prefect!
<seb128> lut huats
 * mvo hugs the team
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> cross team hugging! ;-)
<mvo> ehheeh
<huats> hello seb128
<huats> :D
<huats> hey mvo
<Keybuk> woo, my patch worked today
<Keybuk> I had a private message, I read it, but the notification icon stayed
<Keybuk> after a brief "grr, broken patch" I realised I had another unread message by scrolling down the list
<didrocks> hi seb128, mvo & huats :)
 * didrocks hugs mvo with 3 hours late :)
<mvo> hey didrocks!
<mvo> never too late for a hug :)
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> lool: you know you can open upstream bugs directly upstream so bug triagers don't have to do ping pong between launchpad and bugzilla for you ;-)
<lool> I usually do this when I reproduce with tip
<seb128> lool: and there is no need to open bugs twice ;-)
<ubuntakias> hi
<ubuntakias> can someone help me to change my icons?
<seb128> hey, try #ubuntu for user questions rather
<ubuntakias> i asked but none answered :(
<seb128> try again later then
<ubuntakias> ok np
<seb128> this channel is to get work done, if we start replying to questions there it'll turn to an user question channel and we will not get work done
<lool> seb128: I didn't open bug twice; LP timed out when submitting bugs
<lool> For two bugs
<lool> I disabled edge and checked that this was reported against LP
<seb128> lool: ah, it did open the bug but timeouted when trying to display the page then
<seb128> no problem, I have issue using edge too today
<seb128> pedro_: hey
<pedro_> hello seb128
<seb128> pedro_: how do you close those bug using those "Closing the report" title?
<pedro_> seb128: using a script, do you want it?
<seb128> pedro_: tell me about it before ;-)
<seb128> does it take a bug number only? or does it list bugs to close using some criterious?
<pedro_> seb128: it's a python-launchpad script, you just need to pass it the bug number(s) to it and it will close it for you
<pedro_> i haven't found a safe way to list the bugs for close with python-launchpad yet, it always list some that have responses
<pedro_> so i prefer to use lp for that and pass it the bug numbers i'd like to close to the script
<pedro_> works better that way IMO
<seb128> pedro_: can you give me the code? ;-) I'm not sure it's faster than greasmonkey but I will have a look
<pedro_> seb128: yup, let me put it into pastebin, one min
<seb128> pedro_: and I'm not sure I like the fact that you change the title to not mention the bug description, it means other people have to open the mail to know what bug you are closing
<pedro_> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/64076/
<seb128> pedro_: thanks
<mvo> seb128: meh, what is #260492 all about? it has millions of comments
<seb128> mvo: using the open with option used to change the default association
<seb128> mvo: ie, right click on a directory, open with eog and eog was set as the application to open directories
<seb128> mvo: that has been fixed in intrepid
<seb128> mvo: interesting thing is that gnome-panel in hardy didn't respect the default application association
<seb128> mvo: but it does in intrepid now
<mvo> I'm curious why ther is a updat-emanager task open
<mvo> it seems like this is not the realm of it
<seb128> mvo: because some people think that something should fix the user config automatically on upgrade
<seb128> mvo: well technically the bug is fixed, nautilus will not write buggy configuration in intrepid
<seb128> mvo: but people who used open with on a directory will have a weird config after upgrade
<seb128> I suggest to slangasek to write it in the upgrade notes
<seb128> suggested
<seb128> not sure if my explanation make sense
<mvo> yeah, makes sense
<mvo> sounds like it should go into the upgrade notes indeed
<seb128> well, I'm not the one who opened the update-manager task there ;-)
<seb128> bug #260492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260492 in nautilus "opening a directory using an application change associations incorrectly" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260492
<mvo> seb128: hm, do you know how good/usable smclient in libegg is? I consider using it in update-notifier to get rid of the last remaining libgnomeui bits
<seb128> mvo: nautilus 2.25 is using it so I would say it works, alex usually knows what he's doing
<seb128> mvo: should #264368 be reassigned somewhere?
<seb128> mvo: where would you reassign it? ;-) xorg-server?
<mvo> looking
<mvo> yeah, -intel and -ati driver I think
<seb128> I had it crashing too when xorg.conf was still using xaa
<seb128> could be that they have some xorg options which create the issue
<mvo> good idea
<james_w> I just enquired whether there was any code for the proposed new user management tool that would allow us to get rid of g-s-t, and there is none yet, so it doesn't look like that will be feasible for Jaunty unless a couple of Ubuntu developers start it off.
<mvo> james_w: thanks for this! writing a user managment tool can not be hard, can it (famous last words I guess ;)
<james_w> mvo: have you seen the design?
<mvo> james_w: ages ago I saw a wiki page about it I think
<mvo> (weeks/months, not sure)
<james_w> it was a pdf
<james_w> I pointed it out at a desktop team meeting a few months ago
<mvo> hm, I probably saw something different then
<james_w> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-May/msg00006.html
<mvo> james_w: hm, that looks pretty nice
<james_w> I'd just like to get rid of g-s-t :-)
<mvo> me too
<mvo> actually this is something we talk about since ~warty :) and each release we get one step closer
<HelpWithUbuntu> -=- o.O -=-
 * mvo celebrates commit r400 of update-notifier
<HelpWithUbuntu> -=- anyone available to help? -=-
<chrisccoulson> ping tedg
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Afternoon.
<chrisccoulson> hi. i wanted to talk with you about laptop hotkeys and g-p-m
<chrisccoulson> i've seen a few reports recently of suspend keys not working, and it appears to be because the xkeysym's which the suspend keys emit are not the one that g-p-m grabs
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure whether g-p-m is meant to grab them or whether there is another issue
<chrisccoulson> the keys that don't work emit XF86Standby, but g-p-m only grabs XF86Sleep
<huats> seb128_: hey
<seb128_> lut huats
<huats> I have seen that there is a new gucharmap available
<huats> that fixes something
<seb128_> right
<seb128_> intrepid is frozen though
<huats> I can do the update, but in intrepid-proposed ?
<seb128_> sure
<seb128_> you know how to do a sru right?
<huats> sure, it is about time for the freeze :)
<huats> yep
<huats> I will do it rigth now, (and finish it tomorrow I think)
<huats> I'll ask you if I need anything ;)
<seb128_> ok, no hurry I doubt intrepid-proposed uploads will be accept today or tomorrow
<huats> I know :)
<huats> but I don't do it right now, I might forget :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-30
<AliTabuger7> how do you "convert" an xmodmap file to evdev?
<mvo> seb128: what is the status of gtkbuilder btw? can glade (or something else) read/write it now? or is a converter still required?
<seb128> mvo: glade svn is almost there now, it will be ready in jaunty
<crevette> mvo, I think you still need to convert
<crevette> hello there
<seb128> lut crevette
<mvo> ok, so nothing yet in intrepid?
<mvo> that can do read/write natively?
<mvo> I got a patch for update-notifier to use .ui instead of glade and if that works well I will switch the other stuff too (synaptic)
<mvo> but I think I want native read/write before that
<seb128> why?
<seb128> just use the gtk converter, that's what most of GNOME do
<seb128> that's stupid to keep a libglade dependency, using extra libs, etc just to not run the converter
<crevette> mvo, other programs using gtkbuilder works well, I think you just need to run the converter at build time and voila?
<crevette> s/works well/didn't run into issue/
 * mvo nods
<didrocks> speaking about .ui files with gtkbuilder, does someone knows if it is possible to export a tab in an another file (the goal is : you can embeeded an optional module with a dedicated tab created with glade)
<mvo> didrocks: having that for our gnome-control-center patch would rock
<didrocks> mvo: ok, so, if I can have have something like that for my personal project, I will let you know if I can adapt to gnome-control-center :)
<didrocks> mvo: is the aim to suppress the right tree?
<didrocks> left, sorry ;)
<mvo> patching glade/ui files is anoying, so having something a "#include "mytab.ui" would make patching the stuff a whole lot easier
<crevette> I think it is possible to load an ui to include it as a child widget in the ui
<crevette> at least I remember having to deal with such code
<crevette> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkBuilder.html#gtk-builder-add-objects-from-file ?
<crevette> it is what you're looking for?
<didrocks> crevette: I will have a look right now :)
<didrocks> crevette: excellent! gtk_builder really rocks :)
<didrocks> thanks a lot
<mvo> crevette: oh, nice. thanks for this link
 * crevette knows how to read the doc, but not how to code :)
<crevette> I should apply as API finder helper
<crevette> happy that helps you
<didrocks> crevette: do you have some function like !find !feature and also... easter egg ? ;)
<crevette> gnii ?
<crevette> ah :)
<crevette> I'm not a bot
<crevette> however something like a bot to find functions from a sentence would be convenient
<mvo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf/+bug/290995 <- strange, I wonder if that is releated to our gnome-network-preferences patch (also I fail to see how)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290995 in gconf "setting http proxy directly via gconf no longer works" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> mvo, you can blame seb128, he is g-c-c maintainer :)
 * seb128 slaps crevette
<crevette> mvo, at least, i really quickly read over the code I don't see a gconf_client_get_bool (USE_PROXY_KEY ...)
<crevette> so I would re-assign to control-center
<crevette> http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-control-center/branches/gnome-2-24/capplets/network/gnome-network-preferences.c?revision=9002&view=markup
<didrocks>  mvo: I noticed a lot of (250 on a basic installation)
<didrocks>  "_usr_share_...png" icon names in /usr/share/app-install/icons/. Is that
<didrocks>  wanted? (which has more than 3000 files)
<didrocks> (sorry, for the copy and paste from -devel, I was unsure you read it :))
<didrocks> (and my putty at work didn't handle EOL correctly...)
<mvo> didrocks: that should be ok,
<didrocks> mvo: what the point of having "casual icon names" and names with "_user_share..."?
<didrocks> what's*
<mvo> didrocks: app-install-data has it so that gnome-app-install (and adept) can show the native icons of the applications
<mvo> even when they are not installed
<didrocks> mvo: and what's the difference with the other icons (in the same folder app-install) with casual names?
<mvo> didrocks: I think it only happens if the icon comes from a non-standard location and to avoid possible name clashes in this case
<mvo> didrocks: do you think this could/should be changed/improved?
<didrocks> mvo: maybe, I was surprised by this name when trying to locate an png file, thinking of a bad script to set up them :)
<didrocks> mvo: if this is to avoid name collision, this is understable
<didrocks> mvo: the script that generate/decide which package to select and show in app-install is in the app-install package ?
<didrocks> (I do not know how it works. Is it a list? A tag in every packages and there is a script on the server that populate a XML file before packaging gnome-app-install?)
<mvo> didrocks: there is a script in bzr for it called "archive-crawler"
<mvo> didrocks: it goes over all debs in the archive and checks for desktop files, then it extracts them and adds meta-data
<didrocks> mvo: this file which lists everything is embeeded in gnome-app-intaller package or retrieved from the archives when doing an update?
<didrocks> (I don't think this script is run in every client install, because of the load ;))
<mvo> didrocks: all data is embedded inside "app-install-data"
<mvo> didrocks: otherwise the load would be too high on the archive and the data is very static
<mvo> when a release is done, we don't add/remove packages
<didrocks> mvo: yes, I imagine :)
<didrocks> ok
<mvo> so its ok to have them in a package
<didrocks> mvo: ok, I will take a look within those few days why there are those strange names, now that I have the goind pointers :)
<didrocks> s/goind/good
<mvo> didrocks: cool, thanks. keep me updated :)
<didrocks> mvo: sure I will :)
 * mpt drops a pin
<andreasn> congrats on the new release guys
<seb128> andreasn: thanks
<Laney> \o/
<james_w> mpt: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomecc-list/2008-October/msg00006.html
<james_w> mpt: Re: control-center discussion a few days ago
<mpt> james_w, thanks, I saw that a couple of minutes ago :-)
<james_w> ah, cool :-)
<mpt> http://live.gnome.org/SystemSettings is what I've written at the moment (all research so far, no design)
<james_w> cool
 * mpt needs to reinstall Vista to have a closer look at how its Control Panel works
<fta> seb128, was my debdiff bad ? (bug 251669)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251669 in totem-pl-parser "totem no longer able to play m3u playlists" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251669
<seb128> fta: no, why?
<seb128> fta: there is a new upstream stable version and we do upload GNOME bufix updates as stable updates
<fta> seb128, i saw you posted another debdiff
<fta> oh, i thought SRUs were requesting minimal changes
<seb128> fta: that's the 2.24.1 to 2.24.2 update debdiff for the sru
<seb128> fta: GNOME has a standing exception there too, we trust them to respect their freeze and not break things in stable updates (and verify the diff and test upgrades)
<fta> I didn't know that.
<seb128> now you know ;-)
<seb128> fta: btw want to do the 1.8.2 update as an intrepid sru?
<fta> ok
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-31
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> lut seb128
<seb128> who has an opinion on whether the "serie to track and usual updaters" updates list should be access restricted or not?
<seb128> ie, bzr in ubuntu-desktop or desktop-bugs rather?
<mvo> seb128: do you happen to remember the bugnumber for the "something opens when clicking on places" ? I just got it in another report
<seb128> mvo: bug #260492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260492 in nautilus "opening a directory using an application change associations incorrectly" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260492
<mvo> seb128: in bug #291132 the person claims it happens with a recent upgrade as well (he says he upgraded from 8.04 to intrepid final)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291132 in update-manager "upgrade 8.04 to 8.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291132
<seb128> mvo: hum?
<seb128> mvo: we didn't do anything to migrate user configs on upgrade, that's why the update-manager task has been opened on the other bug
<seb128> mvo: intrepid will not writte buggy configuration but users who did change it in hardy will notice that change after upgrading since gnome-panel respects the choice now which it didn't in hardy
<mvo> seb128: oh, sorry. I thought it was a bug *during* the development cycle in intrepid
<mvo> seb128: in this case I think we should do something similar to the fusa-migration stuff
<seb128> mvo: no, we would not have bother for unstable users
<seb128> I mean they know running unstable can lead to some glitches
<mvo> my bad, I misread that
<seb128> we will need to fix before the next lts in any case
<seb128> I mean do something to fix those configs
<seb128> mvo: that should be easier than the applet change, the configuration is one line in .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list
<mvo> seb128: ok, do you plan to fix it in gnome-panel? or via a note ?
<seb128> mvo: how would you fix that in gnome-panel? gnome-panel is only respecting the user config
<mvo> seb128: if note, I can add it and prepare a upload now, I think this is anyoing (and common) enough so that we act quickly
<seb128> mvo: you could be using GNOME and gtk-nautilus rather than nautilus
<mvo> seb128: not sure, my gut-feeling is that if the config is "open totem for a directory" then there is probably something wrong
<seb128> so gnome-panel should open directories in gtk-nautilus in this case
<seb128> right
<mvo> but yeah, I see your point
 * mvo scratches head
<seb128> mvo: basically we could to that
<seb128> mvo: python -c 'import gio; print gio.app_info_get_default_for_type("inode/directory", True).get_executable()'
<seb128> mvo: if that not == nautilus, display a note "your default association to open directories is not nautilus, that might be a bug, do you want to reset it to nautilus"
<seb128> and the reset button would just make sure .local/share/applications/mimeapps.list has nautilus listed first for the directory
<seb128> mvo: what do you think?
<mvo> seb128: thats cool, lets do it - I think the right place would be in the panel itself but a note will be much quicker to do
<seb128> That's not perfect but should be good enough
<seb128> mvo: what in the gnome-panel?
<seb128> mvo: gnome-panel respects associations for a reason, you might be using gtkfilemanager as your filemanager in which case you want the places menu to use that and not nautilus
<seb128> so you can't say "gnome-panel always uses nautilus to open directories"
<seb128> but maybe I don't get what you suggest
<seb128> what would you change exactly?
<mvo> seb128: I was thinking of a one time message "your association is not nautilus, if that is deliberate fine, if not click here to fix it" with better wording of course inside the panel. but I guess this leaves us with the disdavantage that we can not detect if it was a upgrade or a fresh install
<mvo> seb128: with the note we can do that and only install the note on upgrades
<mvo> seb128: let me know what you think, if we want a note, I can prepare a update, I would need help with the SRU verification instructions though
<seb128> mvo: do we have a way to display this note only if nautilus is not the default association?
<mvo> seb128: yes, there is a "DisplayIf" key that can run any shell command
<mvo> seb128: any command really
<seb128> mvo: I'm thinking about it, what you did for the applet migration was a gnome-panel change, that's different of the note, what are the advantage of the different solutions?
<mvo> seb128: so we put the python code there plus a test if the check was already run (I think its enough if the check is run once after upgrade)
<seb128> I've to admit the difference between an application note and an update-manager one is not clear to me right now
<seb128> let's go the other way
<mvo> seb128: update-manager can not do it  itself because it runs as root and may not have access to the users homedirs (e.g. in nfs environments with the rootsquash option)
<seb128> we want something which is displayed once after upgrade from hardy for users where nautilus is not the default association
<mvo> right, I think we can do it inside the panel itself or via a note?
<seb128> you probably know better than me what is the best tool we have to do that
<mvo> eh, no "?" here :)
<seb128> gnome-panel, as a patch to the C upstream code?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> I think those are the alternatives we have
<seb128> my gut feeling is that patching upstream code is not the right place for that
 * mvo nods
<seb128> what are the disadvantages of the note approch?
<mvo> its a bit clunky, but otherwise there is none - I mean, a note displaying "there might be something wrong, fix it: [yes] [no]"
<seb128> well, having it in gnome-panel would not display anything different
<seb128> so it should be gnome-panel installing the note, similar to what you did for the applets migration?
<mvo> hm, right
<seb128> I think we should go this way
<seb128> the test is basically the python snippet I wrote before
<mvo> yes, I think so - we *could* just fix it automatically on upgrade and say that the (few) people who changed it deliberately can fix it themself, but I don't feel well about it
<seb128> they didn't wrap the equivalent _set api yet though which sucks
<seb128> no, I like better displaying a note to people who have a weird association
<seb128> we could do a "appname is set to open directory, that could be a bug, do you want to change it back to nautilus?"
<mvo> seb128: I will prepare something and post it for review (unless you want to take it which is fine with me of course)
<seb128> mvo: I'm think in fact we could just automatically change it
<james_w> what would be the fallout from just changing it back?
<mvo> seb128: right
<seb128> james_w: what I wrote before " gnome-panel respects associations for a reason, you might be using gtkfilemanager as your filemanager in which case you want the places menu to use that and not nautilus"
<mvo> james_w: good question, nothing as far as the panel is concerned because hardy did not honor it anyway
<seb128> mvo: right that was just what I was thinking too
<mvo> so there is no change here
<seb128> since hardy didn't respect it
<mvo> does it have any other effect?
<mvo> I mean, does anything beside the panel read that association?
<seb128> well that's gio association
<seb128> so anything which opens a directory using gio
<seb128> but I would say it's a marginal usecase
<seb128> I doubt anything out of gnome-panel is doing that in the standard install
<seb128> and the world has not switched to gio otherwise
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's do automatic fixing on upgrade ;-)
<mvo> ok, so we need something in Xsession.d/ for that
<seb128> urg
<mvo> yeah, sucks
<seb128> I don't like things staying around in Xsession.d
<mvo> the alternative would be: "for d in /home/*; do ..."
<mvo> in the postinst
<mvo> which is *eeeeek*
<seb128> I'm considering the gnome-panel code change now
<mvo> (and will not work on nfs mounted homes)
<mvo> right
<mvo> that is best I think
<mvo> check on startup, change if needed and set a gconf key that the check was performed and should never run again
<seb128> the annoying part how to figure "first startup after hardy upgrade"
<seb128> we will need to add a gconf key I guess
<mvo> yeah
<seb128> ok, so we are clear on what needs to be done
<mvo> and for fresh installs we can just ship the gconf key with "already_run = True"
<seb128> how?
<mvo> hrm, right. no - so we need to run it once for fresh installs too, but that should be fine because the default there is nautilus
<james_w> can you ship a default gconf key with "not_run = True" and then run the upgrade if that is found, setting "not_run = False" for the user?
<seb128> we can hack a postinst snipet to set this key only on upgrade
<mvo> seb128: yeah!
<mvo> need_fixup = True :)
<mvo> I like that
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, what we need then is
<seb128> - have a new key defaulting to false
<seb128> - a postinst snippet setting it to true for upgrades
<seb128> - gnome-panel code which reads this key and call the code when the key is true
<seb128> - the code change the default association to nautilus if that's not nautilus yet
<seb128> - and after running the key is set to false
<seb128> mvo: looks correct?
<mvo> yes, looks perfect
<seb128> do you want to do those changes or should I?
<mvo> either way is fine for me
<seb128> same here ;-)
<seb128> I'll probably not start before lunch and I've lunch outside today but I can have a look this afternoon
<seb128> feel free to start on it if you want, I'll look at this this afternoon otherwise
<mvo> ok, cool
<seb128> that should just be calling app_info_get_default_for_type and then app_info_set_as_default_for_type
<mvo> let see what other issues I run accross and how busy the morning will be
<mvo> hm, a opportunity to put gnome-panel into bzr ... ;)
<crevette> hello chaps
<mvo> hey crevette
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> mvo: you didn't do that yet? ;-)
<seb128> bah bug #291482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291482 in libgnome "package libgnome2-0 2.24.1-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291482
<seb128> did I already complained about those upgrade bugs ;-)
<mvo> seb128: I did :) but nothing really major came up (yeah!)
<seb128> joke aside looking at the recent bugs list I was surprised how many random upgrade bugs we are getting
<mvo> seb128: make your scripts more robust ;)
<seb128> lot of users must be running into issues
<seb128> mvo: add || true after all the commands? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: jokes aside, yes - this is a problem and something thats pretty anoying
<mvo> seb128: I mean, upgrades are really too fragile and its just too many things that can go wrong (and do go wrong)
<mvo> its hard to fix without major changes though, I think we did cover most of the easy and medium improvements
 * mvo checks the error that seb mentions
<seb128> mvo: we could easily delay all the cache updates, etc to be run after the upgrades no?
<seb128> so installations would not break when update-icon-cache crash for a random reason
<seb128> or similar issues
<mvo> seb128: hrm, this particular one looks really nasty
<seb128> mvo: what is the error exactly? I've been to lazy to read all the logs there ;-)
<mvo> seb128: this one looks like a problem in the way apt calls dpkg :(
<seb128> urg
<mvo> yeah, really really nasty
<seb128> you can reassign it where you want that doesn't seem to be desktopish
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> I will write some code that extracts his packages and tries to reproduce it, I would love to be able to and check a fix, this is the kind of error I don't want
<mvo> there goes the gnome-panel work :)
<mvo> seb128: I already reassigned it to apt
<seb128> ok, I'll have a look to the gnome-panel changes
<seb128> looks a nice friday afternoon project
<mvo> seb128: ok, I updated the bugreport to include the plan
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<tuxice> mpt?
<mpt> yep
<tuxice> i have a fix for bug 160311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Window Resize Difficult (Window Border Thickness)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
<tuxice> i propose we add a slider to the theme selection tab in the appearence menu, or even a new tab altogether.
<tuxice> what do you think?
<tuxice> mpt?
<mpt> one moment, reading the report
<tuxice> k
<mpt> this is a long bug report :-)
<tuxice> ya
<tuxice> mpt?
<mpt> tuxice, I'm commenting on the report
<mpt> I don't have anything massively useful to say though
<tuxice> camoguy?
<mpt> done
<tuxice> Do you think adding a sliderbar, that would increase the border would be a worthy fix?
<tuxice> mpt?
<mpt> No, I think that would be dumping the problem on users without solving it
<tuxice> i see.
<mpt> Making them choose between efficient and ugly
<tuxice> what would be a fix?
<mpt> er, between efficient and ugly, vs. awkward and attractive
<mpt> I've suggested possible solutions in the bug report
<tuxice> ya
<tuxice> ok
<mpt> * try the invisible draggable area and see if it works
<mpt> * get GTK to introduce a corner grippy that doesn't require a status bar
<mpt> * report bugs on apps that could have a corner grippy but don't
<tuxice> +1
<tuxice> g2g
<alexvanlier> hello
<isaw> Hi... can anyone help with a fragged 8.1 upgrade?
<huats> seb128: have you heard of some intrepid freezes ?
<huats> i mean of system  freeze :)
<mvo> wb seb128
<seb128> re
<seb128> huats: intrepid is stable now so it's frozen, you need sru to do updates
<huats> no non
<huats> :)
<huats> i mean of system  freeze :)
<huats> i just had 4 on my running system :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> no vt switch?
<seb128> what videocard and driver?
<mvo> huats: when does it freeze?
<huats> mvo: random :)
<seb128> huats: can you ssh to the box when it's frozen?
<mvo> huats: what videocard and driver?
<huats> mvo: sometime with evolution (writing an email) sometime with flash in firefox
<huats> ...
<mvo> seb128: I put a proposed patch into the bugreport we talked about earlier (review welcome, its not a nice one :(
<mvo>  what videocard and driver?
<mvo> with compiz or without?
<huats> searching that :)
<mvo> lspci -nn
<huats> (without compiz)
<mvo> if you paste the output of that, we shoudl be fine
<huats>  nVidia Corporation GeForce 8400M G
<mvo> ok
<huats> seb128: I haven't try the ssh, I cannot switch to the console
<mvo> /var/log/Xorg.0.log will have the used driver (either nvidia or nv)
<huats> nvidia
<mvo> hrm, that is bad(tm)
<seb128> huats: try to ssh
<huats> (I know :( )
<seb128> usually I blame compiz for those
<huats> seb128: I try (next time which will be soon I am sure)
<huats> and I'll let you know :)
<seb128> try using nv instead of nvidia too
<seb128> mvo: ok thanks, will have a look
<huats> thanks mvo and seb128
<mvo> seb128: no rush
<mvo> seb128: while waiting for the upgrade test thing I had a bit of free time
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mvo: looking to your patch now
<seb128> +	      g_warning("inode/directory points to '%s' - fixing", g_app_info_get_executable(app), "nautilus");
<seb128> mvo: wrong number of arguments there?
<seb128> mvo: you also g_object_unref(app); in the case where app == NULL
<mvo> thanks for the review
<seb128> mvo: otherwise for the loop that's either that or building a new GAppInfo so I think iterating over the option is reasonable
<seb128> not sure if there is a function which takes a .desktop and return a GAppInfo
<mvo> seb128: I tried that using the nautilus.desktop file, but that crashed for me (no idea why) - app != NULL
<mvo> I mean it was != NULL
<seb128> what function did you try?
<mvo> give me a sec
<mvo> g_desktop_app_info_new_from_file I think
<seb128> mvo: also I'm not sure about that
<seb128> +		    new_app = l->data;
<seb128> +		 g_object_unref(new_app);
<seb128> +	      g_list_free(l);
<seb128> mvo: you don't increment the ref by doing new_app =l ->data do you?
<seb128> mvo: isn't g_list_free unrefing l anyway?
<dobey> no
<dobey> g_list_free doesn't know how to deal with the data in it
<dobey> you have to loop through the list and unref/free/whatever each item, and then free the list
<mvo> thanks dobey
<huats> seb128: no luck with the ssh after the freeze (and no ping of the computer either)
<seb128> huats: seems a system crash and not an xorg one then
<huats> yep
<seb128> mvo: g_desktop_app_info_new_from_file should be working
<seb128> weird
<mvo> seb128: no idea, maybe I did something wrong
<seb128> mvo: I'll have a look in a bit
<seb128> out of the previous comment the patch looks good to me
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I need to run out in a bit, so feel free to take over from here
<seb128> mvo: will do, have fun see you later
<mvo> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> grrrr at xulrunner
<seb128> you could think they would fix bugs sometimes but it's still crashing on closing and doing that since before hardy that starts being annoying
<seb128> when it's not hanging and preventing you to open a new instance
<dobey> welcome to Web 2.0
<dobey> where nothing works, and there are more browser engines that all behave completely differently
 * jt66 is away: I'm busy
<mvo> hm, will g_list_free(g_list_last()) DTRT and free all of the list (and not just from the element it started on)?
<dobey> that looks like it's asking for problems
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> this is why I'm asking, I check the glib source
<dobey> glib is doing that?
<mvo> well, I don't know. I was just wondering if I need to keep a head pointer around
<dobey> what are you trying to do exactly
<mvo> I have a GList and iterate over it, when I'm done I want to free it
<dobey> for (l = list; l && l->data; l = l->next) { item = l->data; list = list_remove (list, item); free (item); } list_free (list);
<walters> mvo: no
<mvo> thanks dobey and walters
<simpman> Installing ubuntu desktop 8.10 having problems it's freezing during the loading splash screen while trying to boot. checksumed the md5, as well as booting it from USB and Live CD and the problem remains. Any suggestions would be appreciated
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-01
<luxinterior> hey every one im apart of a team working on a web site to help people with every  day questions. about tech. like ps3, pc, games ect. and i was wondering if any  one would like to come help with it. the web site is http://midnight.midnightrealmsonline.net/  ome join and have fun!!!
<Oprtz> how to change the screen resoution of login screen(its 1280x1024) when i enter my user name and passwrd, it convert into 1024x768, i want the login screen at 1024x768 too, any soultion ? thanks
<wassy121> Hey there.  Why can't 'smb://DESKTOP' be run from run application command?
<wassy121> "No application is registered as handling this file".
<wassy121> This also breaks the my Places bookmark for the Windows Network.
<pochu> try 'gvfs-open smb://something'
<wassy121> no gvfs-open command.
<pochu> it's in the gvfs-bin package
<wassy121> sure, installing.
<wassy121> $ gvfs-open smb://desktop/
<wassy121> gvfs-open: smb://desktop/: error opening location: No application is registered as handling this file
<pochu> wassy121: does 'gnome-open smb://desktop' work?
<crevette> wassy121: what is desktop for you? a computer?
<wassy121> desktop is an actual computer.  Putting "smb://desktop" in nautilus works as expected.
<wassy121> gnome-open gives roughly the same error as gvfs-open.
<wassy121> No application registered.  In gconf, there is no desktop\gnome\url-handlers\smb
<wassy121> Which I think is the root of the problem.
<wassy121> And going to desktop, hitting ctrl-l, and typing in smb://desktop/ works as expected.
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-02
<crevette> hello
<waseem> Hi I cant seem to connect to the medibuntu repositry. can anyone help?
<waseem> Connecting to www.medibuntu.org|87.98.242.110|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying.
 * mpt hits Ctrl Alt Backspace by mistake
<crevette> mpt: add NoZap
<crevette> :)
<crevette> I usedto do when trying to deleting a word on a test
<crevette> :)
<dobey> hrmm, bluetooth has been a real pain in intrepid though :(
<crevette> dobey: what's you problem?
<crevette> I can perhaps help you
<dobey> well, apparently, sometimes the bluetooth controller doesn't even show up
<crevette> that's true we have some bug in bluetooth
<dobey> which i guess explains why my mouse wouldn't work
<dobey> so i installed gnome-device-manager, and the bluetooth controller didn't show up in the list
<crevette> weird I say we where I'm not not nor ubuntu canonical unemploye
<dobey> i had to turn the hardware wireless switch off then on, and then it showed up
<dobey> and now my mouse is connected and works
<crevette> most bluetooth knowledgeable people are in #u-mobile I think but I guess you known it
<dobey> i don't know who knows what
<dobey> i just know i don't know why stuff doesn't work
<dobey> hrmm, i wonder why some of the stuff in /etc/init.d doesn't show up in the "Services" dialog under the Administration menu
<dsas> dobey: It uses a hardcoded list I think.
<dsas> Indeed, bug 214496
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 214496 in gnome-system-tools "postgresql isnt shown in "Services Settings"" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214496
<dobey> suck
<dobey> hrmm, i wonder if meetup.com has a REST API or anything...
<dsas> dobey: The rationale for hardcoding services for services-admin is at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=142721#c2
<ubottu> Gnome bug 142721 in services-admin "not all scripts listed, no runlevel boot (gentoo)" [Major,New]
<dobey> dsas: sure. but i still think it's incorrect that for example, Postgres doesn't show up in the list on ubuntu, it should probably do string matches, rather than hardcoding, for scripts. or it would be nice to have a --list-services option to the "service" command, which services-admin could use to get a list of services
<dobey> *shrug*
<dsas> dobey: Sure, it should maybe have a blacklist rather than a whitelist.
<dobey> and having it show apmd and acpid both as enabled is kind of weird too
<dobey> it's not even a whitelist i don't think
<dobey> it's weird
<dobey> oh well
<ottoshmidt> is there a separate channel for firefox?
<dsas> ottoshmidt: ubuntu-mozillateam
<ottoshmidt> dsas, THX
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-26
 * TheMuso sighs. *finally* got through bug mail for audio from over the weekend.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Any luck confirming whether a rebuild fixes things?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I just testing a fix to tracker - it's .install file hard-codes the wrong directory
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, confirmed it works.  It needs both deskbar-applet and tracker to be built with the latest BZR
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: does one have to be uploaded/build-dep on the other
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok so deskbar-applet needs to be rebuilt?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: tracker uploaded.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey - did you upload deskbar-applet?
<bratsche> Hey robert, how's it going?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: No, there are no changes from you for it, so I was wondering whether it needs a rebuild.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hmm, I pushed a change to it revno 21
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, you've just made me realise that tracker doesn't build-dep on deskbar-applet... and it should
<robert_ancell> bratsche, hi! doing well
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: heh right, I'll get deskbar-applet sorted, and will await your fix for tracker.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, do I need to bump the version number for tracker or can I reuse 0.6.95-1ubuntu2
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: We can try re-using the same version, since its not been approved yet.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, cool, thanks
<TheMuso> I've already marked it as released, but thats no big deal.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: deskbar-applet fails to build for me.
<TheMuso> This is with latest updates from archive.ubuntu.com
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, what error?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I'm updated and it builds for me
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: hrm ok
 * TheMuso is building again and its going fine so far, probably got past where it failed.
<TheMuso> Yeah it did, dunno what that was.
<TheMuso> ok, uploading.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: So if you are going to make the addition to tracker of the build-dep, let me know when done and I'll get it uploaded.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, doing now
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, pushed
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: thanks
<robert_ancell> bratsche_, connection problems?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Does deskbar-applet need to be abuild-depend, or should it only be a runtime dependency?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, it needs to be a build-dependency as it uses the pkg-config file to find where to install the modules
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: righto.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded. I also shifted the tag to your latest commit, so that if someone needs to do a version check/diff, your latest changes can still be found.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> np
<bratsche_> robert_ancell: Yeah
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I am assuming there are updates in brasero that are useful to have for the final release of karmic?
 * TheMuso can't do anything with it atm due to launchpad being offline, but saw it was in the queue for sponsoring.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, LP is down..
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, seb was keen for them, looking at changelog
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yeah, just some bugfixes
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: when lp comes back up, I'll sponsor.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yeah I think we need these bug fixes.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yup
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: brasero uploaded.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> np
<al-maisan> Good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> didrocks: oh, oops; it broke stuff for other projects
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<pitti> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey
<didrocks> pitti: hum, any idea of a workaround to avoid moving the file? :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: I saw your tracker upload; I accepted deskbar-applet first, I take it this needs to be built and published before we can accept tracker? (it doesn't have a versioned build dep)
<robert_ancell> yes
<didrocks> manual dh_install ?
<pitti> didrocks: you should be able to handle the data/.desktop.in in setup.py's data_files
<pitti> didrocks: doesn't that work?
<robert_ancell> pitti, is that a manual step? i.e. wait for deskbar-applet to go through the works then push tracker?
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't try, just saw that yesterday evening. Ok, so, listing it manually the "distutils way" should work, right?
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> ok, thanks. I will try that today :)
<baptistemm> hello
<seb128> good morning there
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> hello mvo, how are you?
<mvo> good, how are you?
<seb128> good thanks
<seb128> not fully awake yet I think
<seb128> not fully awake yet I think, need coffee, brb
<mvo> I'm doing bug triage
<pitti> hey seb128, good morning mvo
<mvo> hey pitti
<seb128> mvo, oh, fun, I've 591 bug emails from the weekend
<seb128> I will spend my monday morning doing nothing bug email catchup again
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: great, had a very relaxing weekend (sauna, swimming, some cooking)
<pitti> yeah, bug mail is crazy these days
<seb128> excellent ;-)
<pitti> seb128: how about your long one?
<Tm_T> pitti: no sauna + swimming in cold lake ?
<seb128> it was pretty good too
<pitti> Tm_T: nah, indoor here :) too cold outside
<Tm_T> pitti: ...and that clearly tells me you're not finnish (:
<seb128> shopping on friday, sleep and sport on saturday, relaxing on sunday ;-)
<pitti> nice
<Tm_T> pitti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_swimming
<pitti> Tm_T: I know that, but I think I'd die..
<pitti> cold showering and cold basin after sauna is enough for me
<Tm_T> pitti: (:
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti and TheMuso
<chrisccoulson> how are you today?
<TheMuso> Fine thanks.
<chrisccoulson> good:)
<chrisccoulson> james_w - i saw the hung PK dialog again last night
<chrisccoulson> but it was 3am and so i didn' get a chance to debug it :(
<seb128> do we do video driver update on stable?
<seb128> the install from my parent is still running hardy but apparently doesn't like their new ati video card
<baptistemm> hello
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<huats> morning !
<baptistemm> hey huats
<pitti> seb128: harder to do for hardy, since there were no DKMS packages yet
<huats> hey baptistemm
<pitti> seb128: for intrepid and above we can do backports
<seb128> pitti, ok, I guess I will just upgrade
<seb128> I was waiting next cycle to have a lts to lts testcase
<chrisccoulson> hello seb128, huats, baptistemm
<pitti> seb128: you could just install the bits from upstream
<baptistemm> Hi chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<huats> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> pitti, I think I will upgrade
<seb128> lot of changes in this  year too ;-)
<seb128> hardy feels old
<pitti> seb128: I guess you mean the proprietary fglrx driver?
<seb128> no, the distro
<seb128> putting karmic on it
<pitti> seb128: I meant for "video driver"
<seb128> would a new fglrx work with the hardy xorg serveR?
<pitti> seb128: I don't knwo
<pitti> tseliot might
<seb128> did anybody ever upgrade using an iso?
<seb128> ie the "new ubuntu detect do you want to upgrade" dialog you get when putting a new ubuntu cd
<baptistemm> which component manage the ssh-agent in the GNOME desktop? it seems my ssh key is not "properly" loaded, because I can't ssh to a server.
<seb128> baptistemm, gnome-keyring
<mvo> seb128: yes
<seb128> mvo, would that work using a karmic iso on an hardy instlal?
<mvo> seb128: no :(
<mvo> seb128: sorry, it will work for lucid (lts->lts)
<seb128> ok
<mvo> seb128: but we have no official supported hardy->karmic at this point
<seb128> it's really annoying
<tseliot> seb128: fglrx should work there. Why?
<seb128> I don't fancy downloading one giga of updates when I've most of it on a usb stick
<seb128> tseliot, the box runs hardy but fail to work with a new ati card now
<mvo> seb128: you can add the CD as a normal ubuntu cd (via synaptic, apt-cdrom add) and then perform the upgrade
<seb128> ie the card is newer than hardy no surprise
<seb128> tseliot, I was wondering was is the best way to get back in a working video
<seb128> mvo, ok thanks
<mvo> seb128: hm, thinking about it, it may even work with the CD, we have a supported upgrade for kubuntu
<seb128> mvo, I don't mind resolving upgrade issues manually
<mvo> seb128: and I think with the ubuntu-alternative CD it should also work
<seb128> I just want to avoid downloading for the day what I already have on the iso
<mvo> sure
<tseliot> seb128: *maybe* you'll have to rebuild the packages on hardy (if dependencies cause problems) but the rest should just work as the old X should be supported
<seb128> tseliot, ok thanks
<seb128> let me try
<baptistemm> seb128, how does gnome-keyring interact with 90x11-common_ssh-agent? (my knowledge with ssh is rather low)
<seb128> baptistemm, dunno
<baptistemm> okay
<tseliot> np
<mvo> asac: I get frequent ui hangs with FF on a ext4 system. is there anything I can do about this. its usually small (1-2s) but anoying. latencytop does not show anything (which is odd). I thought it might be the old fsync() issue, but its ff 3.5 and ext4 so that should be all fixed now, no?
<seb128> tseliot, pitti, mvo: ok solved
<seb128> the fglrx from hardy is working with this videocard
<mvo> seb128: oh, that was quick
<pitti> seb128: nice
<seb128> I just used jockey to enable it
<seb128> the box was using ati before
<pitti> \o/
<tseliot> seb128: even better ;)
<seb128> sort of yes
<seb128> I would prefer using the open source driver still ;-)
<seb128> I would prefer using the open source driver still ;-)
<seb128> ups
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, asac, good morning
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, living in a decent timezone for the week? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, how was your flight? and the jetlag?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, welcome in a sane timezone! :-P
<asac> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> they've sent me to London so I can add value by pestering your for status reports all day instead of just in your evening
<asac> haha
<pitti> PHEAR!
<asac> mvo: yes. the fsync is said to be fixed for ext4 .. soo .....
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<rickspencer3> Good evening TheMuso
<asac> anyone has a fresh install?
<asac> does /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html exist?
<hyperair> it exists here.. but not a fresh install =\
<seb128> pitti, bug #460328, do you know if it's g-s-d or gdm or something else?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460328 in gnome-settings-daemon "Gnome keyboard properties conflicts with console-setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460328
<cassidy> seb128, kenvandif: any progress on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/408530 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408530 in empathy "empathy assertion failure: empathy:ERROR:empathy-tp-chat.c:1391:empathy_tp_chat_acknowledge_message: assertion failed: (m != NULL)" [High,In progress]
<seb128> cassidy, no idea just back from weekend for 2 hours and still fighting backlog
<seb128> kenvandif was supposed to look at it but it's probably early for him now
<cassidy> oki; please mark this bug as a release blocker; I really don't want to have Karmic shipped with this crasher :\
<seb128> cassidy, it's late now for any karmic change
<seb128> pitti, rickspencer3: ^
<cassidy> :(((
<rickspencer3> cassidy, pitti already milestoned it to karmic-updates, suggesting that it is SRUable
<cassidy> post release then... :\
<Zdra> pfff
<Zdra> epic fail
<seb128> it's not end of the world, the CD is mainly used for testing and install
<seb128> the users are usually running stable updates
<pitti> seb128: looking
<seb128> ie if it's fixed next week in a sru nobody will notice
<pitti> cassidy, rickspencer3: marking as "karmic-updates" means that we should fix it in an SRU, but not that we must not fix it before; do we have a patch?
<Zdra> pitti, I have a trivial patch: drop the ubuntu-specific patch from package that proved 10times that it is wrong
<Zdra> pitti, you can get package from our ppa, it has the needed fix ;)
<cassidy> pitti, don't know, afaik kenvandif was working on a fix (which should be easy, I identified the leak)
<seb128> Zdra, again you are not being constructive there
<seb128> Zdra, karmic images are going to be rolled really soon we are not changing behaviour, design, documentation, etc now
<Zdra> (if only you listened to me from the begining... moooonths ago)
<seb128> Zdra, you are really not constructive
<Zdra> I know
<proppy> what is the problem ?
<seb128> Zdra, the indicator changes are design decision so your suggestions are not an alternative there
<Zdra> We can't be constructive at this point
<Zdra> it's too late, and I'm really not happy at all
<proppy> (I mean what is the bug you're talking about ?)
<seb128> a crasher due to the libindicate change
<seb128> but Zdra's reply to a crasher is not to fix it but to change the software behaviour
<proppy> #nnnn ?
<pitti> popey: bug 408530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408530 in empathy "empathy assertion failure: empathy:ERROR:empathy-tp-chat.c:1391:empathy_tp_chat_acknowledge_message: assertion failed: (m != NULL)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408530
<proppy> pitti: seb128 thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: 460328> that's g-s-d
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: and hal as well, I think
<seb128> pitti, I reassigned there and I was not sure
<pitti> seb128: hal/gdm doesn't really support the concept of multiple default layouts in /etc/default/console-setup
<pitti> so having "set defaults" configure [us,ru] won't work
<pitti> but the additional "us" one is a half-bug
<pitti> it seems that his original "us\t" value is the problem
<pitti> it's a variant without a name
<popey> hullo pitti
<pitti> hey popey
<popey> can I help?
<popey> oh, tabcomplete fail :)
<pitti> argh, sorry
<popey> np
<popey> :)
<pitti> popey: help> sure, always :) enough bugs to fix for everyone :)
<chrisccoulson> are there any more bugs you want me to fix? ;)
<popey> :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you are a machine..
 * seb128 is going through recent bug emails
<chrisccoulson> heh:)
<seb128> the most frequent complain atm seems to be youtube video playing not working correct in totem, lot of gstreamer errrors there...
<proppy> ah it seems there is an updated patch on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574744#c24
<ubottu> Gnome bug 574744 in General "Empathy could take advantage of the Messaging Indicator" [Minor,New]
<proppy> about #408530
<proppy> it seems related to me, but I may be mistaken
<seb128> proppy, it's the other way around
<seb128> the libindicate change comes from ubuntu
<seb128> the upstream bug is just our patch sent for review
<seb128> we might have a newer version in karmic that the on bugzilla right now
<proppy> seb128: I know but it seems that the initial patch has been submitted upstream, and updated
<proppy> how ok
<seb128> well robert_ancell changes landed in karmic
<proppy> seb128: and does it includes bits from https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574744#c24 ?
<seb128> but I think there was still incremental changes after that
<ubottu> Gnome bug 574744 in General "Empathy could take advantage of the Messaging Indicator" [Minor,New]
<proppy> I see :)
<seb128> yes, robert_ancell works for the canonical desktop team there
<proppy> seb128: thanks for the explaination
<seb128> he has been working on those changes for us
<seb128> and sent back upstream too
<proppy> seb128: so the leak is still there in robert_ancell new patch ?
<seb128> robert_ancell new patch is an month old change
<seb128> so I guess it is yes
<seb128> it's not a newer version it's an older one
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/2.27.92-1ubuntu3
<seb128> I think robert_ancell's change are in this upload
<proppy> ah you're right Robert Ancell                             [developer]                                                              2009-09-18 01:49:49 UTC         , I miss read the date
<asac> mvo: preferences.d .... refuses to parse files that have a "." ;)
<asac> want a fix ?
<asac> or was there a reason?
 * asac had to look in code to understand why no pinning worked there
<seb128> asac, bug #459199 if you want to subscribe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459199 in gdm "gdm face browser no longer shows my user" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459199
<asac> seb128: Low .... :-P
<asac> that not what i wanted to hear
<asac> Critical at least
<seb128> right
<seb128> it should be a karmic blocker
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> note that I told you to change the number back a week ago so you could have done it
<seb128> I expect now is late
<asac> yeah
<asac> let me hug kees
<TheMuso> pitti: seems tracker FTBFs on i386 due to python-gtk2-dev not being installed. I am uploading a fix to add python-gtk2-dev as a build dep for tracker, although deskbar-applet needs python-gtk2-dev as a dep for the pkg-config file somehow in the future.
<TheMuso> pitti: Happy to do it another way if you'd prefer.
<TheMuso> i.e haven't uploaded yet, but preparing to.
<TheMuso> Seems the chroot I used to build test these packages today had bits in there that it should have somehow, which is why all looked ok when I uploaded today. :S
<pitti> TheMuso: please go ahead
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> pitti: uploaded
<seb128> asac, is there any way to clean the firefox smart choices in a text entry?
<seb128> it remembers things I've typed before
<seb128> like in the launchpad assignee entry "desktop-bugs"
<seb128> the thing is that I did a typo once and that one is listed too
<seb128> I would like to clean it
<pitti> seb128: select it and press "delete" key
<pitti> WFM
<seb128> pitti, doh, so easy, thanks
<asac> seb128: hmm ... tools -> clear recent history offers you to clear form history ... not sure if thats what you want. i dont think there is a UI to remove that for individual sites
<seb128> asac, what pitti said
<seb128> delete
<seb128> but thank
<asac> hehe
<asac> fun ;)
<asac> too much sophistication for me ;)
<asac> but how does that help?
<asac> or did it remember some bogus value you wanted to remove?
<seb128> asac, cf what I wrote
<seb128> " like in the launchpad assignee entry "desktop-bugs"
<seb128>  the thing is that I did a typo once and that one is listed too
<seb128>  I would like to clean it"
<seb128> asac, I add a buggy entry (the one with the typo) and I keep picking it
<asac> yep
<seb128> well problem solved now so it's all good
<asac> i should not start looking for stuff before reading all ;)
<proppy> seb128: I tried to cdbs-edit-patch 20_libnotify.patch for empathy, but for some reason the debdiff produced is very big
<proppy> even thought I only moved 4 lines of code
<proppy> it seems like all the header of each hunk have been altered
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/f71085316
<seb128> proppy, weird
<asac> proppy: the previous patch was done manually
<asac> so it might be that the order is wrong and all that
<asac> i would suggest to edit the patch by hand if you know what you want to change ;)
 * seb128 lunch
<asac> or try to use the same command ... or just triple check that the patch is really good
<seb128> still 111 bug emails in backlog
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/f6f757b8d
<seb128> the morning was not enough to tackle all
<proppy> here is my tentative patch
<asac> yeah. weekend is bad
<seb128> kenvandif, ^ for you to review when you are there
<seb128> proppy, thanks for looking into the issue
<seb128> lunch, bbl
<asac> proppy: you need to adjust the hunk markers too
<asac> like
<asac> -260,7 +213,6 @@
<asac> ->
<asac> oh
<asac> cant tell because i dont see the original ones
<proppy> asac: got to go to lunch
<asac> but removing lines means you probably need to adjust them
<proppy> asac: I'll take a look if I'm available after that
<proppy> asac: yes I know :/
<proppy> asac: maybe I should use some emacs-fu to edit the patch in place
<proppy> ++
<asac> right emacs is great for that
<mac_v> kenvandif , mat_t: Bug #441210 , is schedule for 9.10 , are we expecting it to be in the karmic updates or.... ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441210 in xsplash "boot and gdm "wallpaper" is not dithered" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441210
<kenvandine> mac_v, thought that was uploaded on thursday, /me looks
<mac_v> thanks... :)
<kenvandine> pitti, what happened with xsplash?
<kenvandine> pitti, looks like it never got uploaded
<kenvandine> the change with the wallpaper
<pitti> oh, for the wallpaper thing?
<pitti> hm, I didn't get bug mail
<seb128> kenvandine, hi, have you seen the ping about empathy before?
<kenvandine> pitti, we discussed it on irc...
<pitti> kenvandine: and it's not in the sponsoring queue either
<kenvandine> seb128, you didn't get my replies?
<kenvandine> pitti, let me find the bug
<seb128> kenvandine, no
<seb128> "<kenvandine> mac_v, thought that was uploaded on thursday, /me looks" is the first think I read from you on this channel today
<kenvandine> seb128, i guess my irc proxy was not happy
<kenvandine>  seb128, i'll look at that
<kenvandine>  i have a patch from friday that does something similar, and also adds DEBUG hooks to the indicator specific stuff which will be useful in the future
<kenvandine>  seb128 seiflotfy2
<kenvandine>  seb128, and i tried desparately to reproduce that bug on friday and just couldn't trigger it, so frustrating
<kenvandine>  i will build it into a ppa and ask the people that have commented on the bug to test it
<kenvandine>  as many dupes as there are, you would think it would be easy to trigger
<seb128> kenvandine, have you seen the patch from proppy?
<kenvandine> pitti, bug 441210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441210 in xsplash "boot and gdm "wallpaper" is not dithered" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441210
<kenvandine> you asked me to subscribe you and we chatted about it on irc thursday
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> that fixes the leak cassidy was talking about
<seb128> would be worth uploading now in case it's indeed fixing the issue?
<kenvandine> seb128, not yet... rick said to make this an SRU
<pitti> kenvandine: hm, weird, I didn't get mailed about it; sorry; let's do that an an SRU then
<seb128> pitti, ^ do we still have a slot for that one?
<kenvandine> seb128, pitti is testing now
<pitti> seb128: not for final, but for SRU sure
<kenvandine> seb128, i tried to repro it and just couldn't
<pitti> seb128: (final images are building now)
<seb128> pitti, ok
<kenvandine> seb128, and if it was that leak i would think it would be easy to reproduce it
<seb128> it's easy to trigger for lot of users apparently
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah... i know
<seb128> dunno why you don't run into it though
<kenvandine> i tried everything the users commented about and nothing
<pitti> seb128: I get it all the time, but I don't have a recipe; it just happens if I get a lot of ICQ chatter
<kenvandine> and i did it many times
<kenvandine> if it is protocol related, it isn't the leak
<kenvandine> i tried with multiple chats at the same time on different protocols and never triggered it
<seb128> weird
<kenvandine> proppy, hey thx for the patch
<seb128> anyway let's see what user testing says about that
<kenvandine> proppy, i had done something similar on friday, but wanted to reproduce it first
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah
<seb128> kenvandine, any opinion about bug #460286 btw?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460286 in empathy "Empathy notifications not shown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460286
<kenvandine> and we have a little time
<proppy> kenvandine: is it helping ?
<kenvandine> proppy, no idea
<kenvandine> i can't reproduce it, but pitti is going to try
<proppy> sorry, I hadn't time to properly test it
<seb128> ""show notifications when chat is not focussed" enabled by default."
<proppy> I agree that reproduce it first is needed :)
<kenvandine> proppy, can you reproduce the bug?
<seb128> not sure if we want to turn those on
<proppy> kenvandine: no I haven't try
<proppy> I know that empathy is crashing sometimes on karmic, but I haven't  done any diagnostic
<proppy> kenvandine: I was just reading the thread, and logs here, and waited to help a bit
<kenvandine> seb128, i don't think we change that default, so it should be the same as upstream
<proppy> sorry if it seems like duplicate work :/
<kenvandine> proppy, thx!
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> i appreciate it
<seb128> kenvandine, the question is rather, should we enable it by default?
<kenvandine> proppy, my concern is if it was that leak, it would be easier to reproduce
<kenvandine> seb128, i would say it should be
<seb128> cassidy, ^ do you have an opinion about notifications?
<kenvandine> if the chat isn't focused, you want notifications
<proppy> kenvandine: obvsiouly there is a reference leak, but I don't know if it is related to the crash
<proppy> upstream seems to say so
<kenvandine> proppy, right
<seb128> kenvandine, is the change obviously right? if it is it doesn't hurt to upload and see if that works for users
<kenvandine> so the patch is needed :)
<kenvandine> seb128, it is right
<kenvandine> i have a little more too
<kenvandine> which also adds some DEBUG output
<kenvandine> so calls to the indicator and from the indicator get logged
<seb128> ok, so don't discuss why you don't get the issue but get the fix in a ppa for testing ;-)
<kenvandine> very annoying that wasn't already there :/
<kenvandine> seb128, that is the plan :)
<seb128> cool, thanks
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> I managed to tackle my weekend bug emails lag
<seb128> over 600 emails
<didrocks> congrats seb128 :)
<didrocks> (and hey o/)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, and hello
<kenvandine> seb128, back to the notifications question
<seb128> had a good weekend?
<didrocks> seb128: wonderful as you may imagine :)
<didrocks> you?
<kenvandine> i don't quite understand... it isn't enabled but i get notifications, as long as the chat window isn't focused :)
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - you need a secretary to help with all those e-mails
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, indeed ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, good too thanks ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, so maybe the option is buggy and do the opposite?
<kenvandine> maybe
<kenvandine> i definately get notifications
<kenvandine> and i don't get them if the chat is focused
<kenvandine> which seems to be the right thing
<kenvandine> i bet it is supposed to be Disable
 * kenvandine tests
<kenvandine> seb128, ok... it is worded right but not sure if it is clear
<kenvandine> if you have a chat window open and not focused (either not on top or minimized) you don't get notifications unless this open is checked
<kenvandine> so yes, perhaps it should be enabled by default
<seb128> I think it should yes
<kenvandine> i think if the chat is focused, you probably want notification
<kenvandine> s/is/is not
<seb128> right, if it's focussed you usually read it
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks for testing
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> seb128, and fyi for 2.30 we shouldn't need to patch empathy at all, we should be able to utilize mission-control
<kenvandine> which will be great
<seb128> for what? the indicator?
<kenvandine> i will get a plan together for doing that before UDS
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> we will be able to do what we need without changing empathy
<Zdra> gnome-shell is doing similar thing
<rickspencer3> seb128, kenvandine are you suggesting changing a setting before final?
<seb128> rickspencer3, no
<seb128> rickspencer3, that's lucid material
<seb128> Zdra, similar to what? not notifying about things which aren't focussed?
<kenvandine> seb128, i think Zdra was talking about MC integration
<seb128> oh ok
<Zdra> seb128, they are going to use MC5 to show notification of incoming message, etc
<Zdra> it's similar to what ubuntu will have to do, but probably with different UI
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, did the apport.mo moved between langpacks?
<seb128> mvo, seen bug #460547?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460547 in update-manager ""Upgrading Ubuntu to version 9.10" untranslated and missing for translation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460547
<mvo> seb128: that works just fine here locally, let me test in a vm
<seb128> mvo, ok, there is an ubuntu-translators topic about it so...
<seb128> mvo, I figured I would let you know ;-)
<tgpraveen1> hello i am running Karmic RC and some observations which were present in jaunty and prior also. why are mp3 files and other audio files like even oga etc associated with totem and NOT rythmbox by default?
<dpm> seb128, re: apport.mo, is that about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-October/003051.html?
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I see what is wrong
<tgpraveen1> a new user will never know the existence of rythmbox this was.
<seb128> mvo, you rock ;-)
<seb128> tgpraveen1, because rhythmbox is a collection manager not a one file player software
<seb128> dpm, yes
<mvo> seb128: eh, maybe not - I dig a bit more and let you know
<seb128> dpm, such issues fixed with a reinstall can be a binary replacing an another one and overwritting the file
<seb128> mvo, ok
<dpm> seb128, ok
<tgpraveen1> hmm then atleast say i select 10 songs and click enter then rythmbox should open up and start playing while buildiing it's collection with these files.
<tgpraveen1> which it does if i click open with rythmbox
<seb128> tgpraveen1, I don't think I agree with that
<seb128> totem is a small player
<seb128> what you want to use when double clicking somewhere
<seb128> rhythmbox is a collection software you open and use
<seb128> you don't want to start rhythmbox to go quickly through some downloaded files
<seb128> especially not adding those to your library
<tgpraveen1> hmm doesnt that then defeat the purpose of shipping a dedicated audio player by default. also rythmbox is also simple/plain (in fact too simple ;-) )
<seb128> totem is an audio player
<seb128> what do you mean?
<seb128> you say that rhythmbox should not be installed by default?
<tgpraveen1> totem can play audio but lacks many audio playing enhancements. no i think it should be installed or be replaced with banshee
<tgpraveen1> my point is if a new
<tgpraveen1> user uses ubuntu and clicks on a song file
<tgpraveen1> then he gets totem and see very few
<tgpraveen1> features. features that he see most audio players on say windows.
<tgpraveen1> so eventhough we ship rythmbox people might not realise it atleast initially
<seb128> we can't open every install software on first start just to show they are there
<kenvandine> tgpraveen1, perhaps the user should be prompted to import the song into his library or play it
 * kenvandine doesn't necessarily think that is a good idea
<seb128> please don't prompt user when trying to open something
<kenvandine> yeah
<tgpraveen1> kenvandine: that might be done the first time. but will start bugging if done everytime
<kenvandine> not a fan of that... but opening it in rhythmbox wouldn't be good either
<tgpraveen1> hmm if banshee replaces rythmbox then also will similar behaviour be followed?
<kenvandine> i think in banshee you can have it open just a simple player, but still be bansee
<kenvandine> so you get a bansee player instead of totem
<kenvandine> different UI
<tgpraveen1> in banshee there is a file system queue plugin which is enabled by defaulkt
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: anyways , most probably banshee might land for Lucid ;)
<kenvandine> tgpraveen1, true... but what does that do if it isn't in your library?
 * mac_v wonders why it was rejected for karmic
<tgpraveen1> kenvandine: it doesnt
<kenvandine> i suspect nothing but play, which is fine
<seb128> tgpraveen1, not sure but I would say yes, you don't want to open a collection management heavy application to open a file
<tgpraveen1> do anything it plays and thats it doesnt put it in llib automatically
<seb128> mac_v, what banshee?
<tgpraveen1> seb128: he is just speculating i guess. we were close in karmic right
<seb128> mac_v, it didn't get any tarball upstream for the whole cycle and lack things required to use it by default
<seb128> like accessibility
<mac_v>  ah...
<seb128> tgpraveen1, still you don't want to open banshee or rhythmbox to give a quick try to a music you downloaded
<tgpraveen1> seb128: well banshee/rythmbox isnt that heavy. i mean for an analogy u r saying to open document files in a document viewer instead of opening in openoffice
<seb128> banshee is the think which doesn't close when you click on the close button
<seb128> all the opposite of something you want to quickly fire up, listen 15 seconds and close
<seb128> tgpraveen1, banshee is not an editor so the comparaison doesn't stand
<seb128> comparison
<tgpraveen1> hmm kk. i see your viewpoint but still feel maybe this issue should be discussed more
<seb128> what issue?
<seb128> I don't see any issue there
<seb128> you want to play quickly something the player is there
<seb128> you want to open your jukebox for the day it's in the menu
<mac_v> ^+1
<pitti> seb128: apport.mo> not that I know of; it's shipped in language-pack-de-base as it should be; what makes you ask?
<chrisccoulson1> pitti - what's your opinion on bug 437905? i think I already know the answer to it ("no for karmic"), but i just wanted to make sure before commenting on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437905 in gnome-system-tools "System > Administration >Services (services-admin) missing (Karmic)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437905
<seb128> pitti, one discussion on the translator list
<seb128> pitti, one translator got it missing and there after reinstall
<seb128> I was wondering if that was a Replaces: and upgrade issue maybe there
<seb128> or if it could be one
<seb128> not worth bothering
<pitti> could certainly be
<pitti> these packages have a hideous Replaces: list
<popey> Could someone tell me where there is a definition of what constitutes "server" and "desktop" packages in terms of the LTS support? What packages can someone expect to get security updates for, and which ones can they not?
<dobey> popey: i guess the package listings for the CD images would be those lists?
<popey> dobey: I'd like a more definitive answer than "I guess" :)
<mac_v> popey: i guess , you are looking for something more comprehensive than this > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS ?  something very similar to what you mention , was part of mpt 's initial mockups of software center , /me wonders why that was dropped
<popey> yes, because that page gives no detail
<mpt> It's not dropped, but it was never intended for v1
<mac_v> ah , nice :)
<mpt> It's not currently intended for v2 either, unless someone is inspired to implement it themselves :-)
<mac_v> mpt: you could keep the mockup on the wiki page , so that it might inspire someone ;)
<mpt> mac_v, it's always been there. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Unsorted%20ideas
<mac_v> lol! i was just blind then :)  i didnt notice it a few mins back
<didrocks> rickspencer3: quickly 0.2.6 accepted. It fixes the former issue. (also, I added in 0.2.5 some additional stenza and statements to the tutorial as for instance, the quickly license description had a lot of outdated information)
<pitti> didrocks: so data_files worked?
<mac_v> tedg: hi ,since the latest inkscape update , inkscape behaves weird :( , during save, it saves to a folder somewhere else [used for the previous save] rather than to where the icon is located
<mac_v> even that is a bit unreliable , it remembers the last save location of the 'inkscape svg format'
<tedg> mac_v: The inkscape in the archive or the daily PPA?
<mac_v> tedg: archive > 0.47~pre4-0ubuntu1
<tedg> mac_v: I think that there were some fixes to that, I'm not sure if they were in the pre4 timeframe.  I'm realizing the nightly is broken right now as the desktop file changed.  I'll try and fix that tonight so you can see if it's fixed.
<mac_v> tedg: awesome thanks :) ...
<didrocks> pitti: it worked perfectly, thanks :)
<Amaranth> I don't know what changed but my nvidia system runs compiz perfectly now
 * chrisccoulson thinks xchat-gnome needs indicator support
<pitti> good night everyone
<rickspencer3> good night pitti
<chrisccoulson> 'night pitti
<didrocks> good night pitti
<chrisccoulson> hello didrocks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<didrocks> very fine, thanks  ;)
<didrocks> you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. are you looking forward to UDS?
<didrocks> yeah ;) I'm eager to be there!
<chrisccoulson> heh, i bet:)
<didrocks> and you, still wanting for your child?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, she hasn't arrived yet
<chrisccoulson> but she probably will do anytime now
<didrocks> heheh, you will have soon your release day too :)
<chrisccoulson> yup! i don't know what will arrive first - karmic or baby
<chrisccoulson> probably karmic ;)
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i know how to trigger the PK dialog hangs now ;)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: woah, how?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - it's a dbus call timing out. if you leave it 25 seconds before entering your password, then it hangs every time
<chrisccoulson> it probably explains why we don't see it as often now, since james_w fixed the issue with dbus timeouts timing out too early
<chrisccoulson> but 25 seconds is still bad
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> cool that you figured out the cause now!
 * mvo hugs chrisccoulson
 * chrisccoulson hugs mvo
<james_w> yay chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey james_w
<james_w> hmm, didn't seem to (not) work here
<chrisccoulson> how long did you leave it?
<james_w> more than a minute
<chrisccoulson> hmmmmmm, let me try again and time how long it takes here
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, maybe a red herring then. i just got it twice in a row, and i got it last night after delaying entering my password too
<chrisccoulson> 3 missed opportunities :(
<chrisccoulson> now i can't get it to fail again :-/
<rafferty> Sound from headphones but not from speakers on Thinkpad x200. I've tried every workaround I can find... any suggestions?
<dobey> jcastro: hey. can you renw my membership to ~ubuntu-bugcontrol plz? :)
<jcastro> dobey: one sec
<dobey> jcastro: thanks
<jcastro> done
<charlie-tca> jcastro: Did anyone tell you I want that last OpenWeek slot?
<dobey> jcastro: muchos gracios
<jcastro> charlie-tca: maybe? I've been gone for a few days (friday and today off)
<jcastro> charlie-tca: just go into the wiki and snag it!
<charlie-tca> Will do!
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Hey. Seems you left python-gtk2-dev from trakcer's build-deps, as the pkgconfig file for deskbar-applet requires it. I fixed it last night, after finding out it FTBFs on i386. Seems I tested with a chroot that was in a bad state yesterday.
<TheMuso> tracker even
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ah, pkg-config dependencies are checked
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: seems so.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I was having a discussion with someone about pkg-config, apparently there generally shouldn't be anything in the Required field
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Interesting.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yeah, as you don't need to explicitly link to dependencies - the linker should take care of that for you
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: In any case, deskbar-applet needs to have that dependency, but its a little weird. I personally think a new package deskbar-applet-dev needs to be made, for the pkg-config file and other bits.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, there is a Requires.private field
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, agreed
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: BTW slangasek rejected brasero, he asked for it to be an SRU.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-27
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<seb128> hello there
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: btw, are you still looking for things to fix? bug 389322 is making a lot of people unhappy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389322 in pidgin "Yahoo server authentication changed: Pidgin =<2.5.6 will not connect to Yahoo! servers." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389322
<pitti> this needs a backport of the yahoo bits to hardy
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti / seb128
<seb128> those u-d-d discussions are annoying
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i can take a look at that, but i don't know the pidgin code all that well
<chrisccoulson> i might be able to figure it out though:)
<Laney> that stuff was really annoying to backport to hardy when i looked at it
<seb128> "don't ship karmic it's not ready, there is some graphical things some users don't like and dvd playing doesn't work perfectly in totem yet"
<seb128> yeah, right...
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i saw that one too
<chrisccoulson> and the replies to digest's are annoying too
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> hey huats
<huats> hey seb128
<huats> how are you
<huats> ?
<huats> busy busy busy I imagine
<huats> :)
<seb128> bit tired and waiting for karmic
<seb128> you?
<huats> bit tired too
<huats> and otherwise could be worst
<huats> still waiting...
<didrocks> lut seb128, hey chrisccoulson
<huats> and very busy with the company
<seb128> lut  didrocks
<huats> (which is great I agree)
<seb128> huats, ok, good luck, business is good for you now?
<huats> seb128, starts to be good
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<huats> need to see if it is just the end of the year
<huats> or if it will be like this early next year
<huats> but the nov/dec are just madness :)
<chrisccoulson> hello huats
<huats> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> I need to get used to see rickspencer3 so early there
<seb128> I need to get used to see rickspencer3 so early there
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> jono, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8326264.stm
<asac> nice
<rickspencer3> good morning asac
<asac> morning rick ;)
<asac> how is the london weather?
<davmor2> rickspencer3: It's great isn't it, it's almost like a review :)
<rickspencer3> asac, rainy, chilly ... so pretty normal
<rickspencer3> davmor2, yeah, pretty cool
<davmor2> rickspencer3: sorry for a second I thought that was the weather report for London :D
<rickspencer3> pitti, good news wrt to the empathy patch
 * rickspencer3 crosses fingers
<pitti> rickspencer3: wrt. my report, or did you hear other positive ones?
<rickspencer3> your report
<asac> pitti: can we remove firefox-3.0 from the archive completely? or is it ok to have it superseded in universe?
<asac> i have opened bug 461782
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 461782 in firefox-3.0 "remove firefox-3.0 from archive." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/461782
<pitti> asac: checking
<pitti> asac: done, bug updated; thanks!
<asac> too bad that bfilter still rdepends on xulrunner-1.9 ... i think without that we could get rid of that too
<asac> pitti: thanks could you chcek if bfilter is really the last that still requires 1.9?
<pitti> asac: hm, I commented on that one yesterday, and there were a fair number of rdepends still (I copied checkrdepends)
<asac> really=
<asac> ?
<asac> what bug was that ;)
 * asac searches
<asac> pitti: sure that was xulrunner-1.9 bug?
<asac> we fixed two more rdepends yesterdayy
<pitti> asac: bug 456191
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456191 in xulrunner-1.9 "remove xulrunner-1.9 from archive or demote to universe" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/456191
<asac> hmm
<asac> fix released ... thats why i didnt find it
<asac> mozilla-helix-player -> fixed in archive
<asac> ok
<asac> then nevermind
<asac> we went through what we found in Sources/Pakcages three times
<asac> sugar-hulahop is also fixed
<asac> pitti: google-gadgets is build dep xulrunner-dev | xulrunner-1.9-dev
<asac> thats ok
<seb128> pitti, do you know where the bugs about floppy drives being listed in devicekit-disks when there is none should go?
<pitti> seb128: usually that's a kernel bug (detecting an fd if there is none)
<seb128> pitti, I reassigned 2 of those to devicekit-disks now
<pitti> asac: there might be some false positives on the list due to alternative b-deps, yes
<pitti> seb128: ok, will look
<seb128> should I move them to linux? what log would you need?
<pitti> seb128: dmesg and lspci, I think
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> I will ask for those
<asac> pitti: updated
<asac> pitti: the bug
<pitti> "udevadm info --export-db" can't hurt either, I think
<asac> its just bfilter
<pitti> asac: ah, the rest is alternative deps?
<asac> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-1.9/+bug/456191/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456191 in xulrunner-1.9 "remove xulrunner-1.9 from archive or demote to universe" [Undecided,Fix released]
<asac> pitti: yes
<asac> pitti: let me double check the ones i said "fixed in archive" ... aka mozilla-helix-player
<asac> and python-hulahop
<pitti> asac: reopened, and sub'ed; please followup on the bug, will look in an hour
<pitti> I'm off for a bit for a doctor appointment
<asac> tx
<seb128> 2 hours to go through night bug emails
<asac> seb128: how long was that night ... 3 hours :-P?
 * seb128 slaps asac
<seb128> asac, that's not because you are slow that we all are there!
<asac> hehe
<asac> seb128: i rather ment it the other way around
<asac> e.g. 3 hours sleep -> 2 hours bugs
<asac> e.g. too many mails
<seb128> right too many emails that was my point
<seb128> 2 hours in the morning is crazy
<seb128> usually it takes me half an hour
<asac> yeah but would be even crazier if you just slept 3 hours
<asac> i am quite openly saying that i cannot read all bug mail
<asac> i can either do bugmail 100% of time
<asac> or try to just spot the important ones :/
<seb128> to be fair I had a long night break
<seb128> ie I stopped at 7pm yesterday until 9am today
<asac> haha
<asac> thats efficient then
<asac> or maybe means hat karmic is in good shape
<seb128> well I just read quickly through desktop bugs
<seb128> I want to spot things for sru-ing
<asac> yeah
<asac> me too
<asac> i will start doing 100% bugwork the next few days
<seb128> I'm find a better balance this cycle between spending too much time on bugs or overlooking those
<seb128> I try to read quickly through
<seb128> use greasemonly a lot to quickly close duplicates etc
<seb128> and milestone other things
<seb128> what I really want now is a "I don't care about your bug" button
<seb128> which takes the bug off the buglist or something
<asac> yeah
<asac> i thought about that too
<seb128> there is ton of valid wishlist I don't care about and we will never work on
<seb128> or corner issues
<asac> seb128: you could create a black-sheep account and then filter bugs out that have that user subscrbied
<seb128> like "I get this issue after tweaking those 6 compiz options and those 3 gconf keys"
<seb128> I could as well use tags...
<seb128> no need of a fake account
<asac> hmm
<seb128> seb-dont-care
<asac> yeah but tags can be removed by others
<seb128> seb-dont-care-about-this-stupid-bug
<asac> while others cannot unsubscribe someone
<asac> ;)
<seb128> right
<asac> so if you want a dead sink ... use accounts
<asac> but you ar eright. tags are probably good
<seb128> yeah I think tags would be good enough
<seb128> ok, done with bug triage now, let's do some iso testing
<seb128> brb
<asac> oh iso testing
<asac> ... much neglected this cycle ... *cough*
 * asac gets an iso image for usb key test
<asac> do we know what happened to meeting time now that we are out of summer time in europe?
<davmor2> asac: the meetings are still utc no?
<asac> idk ;)
<soren> What is the blessed way to run stuff as root from .desktop files nowadays?
<asac> i only know that it was always confusing ;)
<soren> ...for something that does not natively support policykit, of course.
<asac> soren: i think the idea is policykit
<asac> and if not, there is only the good old way
<soren> asac: And what is that? gksudo? gksu? Something else that I've forgotten about?
<asac> gksudo
<asac> but only 90% sure
<asac> we dont have that many apps that need root ... mvo ?
 * asac checks iso
<mvo> asac: no, not that many.
<mvo> asac: still some though
<asac_empathy> mvo: they use gksudo?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> well, gksu
<mvo> and we default to sudo mode there
<asac_empathy> soren: see above
 * soren nods
<soren> mvo, asac_empathy: Thanks.
<pitti> asac, seb128: FWIW, I gave up trying to read all bug mail from all packages I'm interested in; it just doesn't work :-(
<seb128> pitti, you are interested in too many thing?
<seb128> things
<pitti> at least I now don't need to have a bad conscience any more about not reading hal bugs at all :)
<pitti> it was one of those packages which get all kinds of weird sh*t
<seb128> right
<mvo> asac: I have a somewhat unusual kvm setup here, but there NM tells me my wired device is not managed. however it is added by something to /etc/network/interfaces
<mvo> asac: eh, nevermind
<mvo> asac: strange setup
<seb128> pitti, I don't find hard to read bugs, it's usually like a 1 hour a day job
<seb128> and I do stock reply on quite some to count one hour a day
<pitti> seb128: I guess that's just enough to browse through and pick out the nasty ones?
 * mvo discovered with delight that qemu can do stuff like "pci_add auto nic model=e1000"
<pitti> seb128: (which is fine; it's by and large what I do as well)
<pitti> seb128: I usually browse through the web ui list for new bugs, though
<seb128> pitti, yes, I'm not interested in reply to every issue users can have there
<seb128> I just want to know about things that should be milestoned or srued
<pitti> I'm not subscribed to apport/devicekit-disks/jockey/etc.; I just individually subscribe to the ones where I ask for more info
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine; just ensure it doesn't ruin your mental health :)
<seb128> don't worry ;-)
<seb128> I also like to know what bugs are really active on launchpad
<seb128> those are usually things users care about too
<pitti> asac: ok, so want me to remove bfilter, too?
<seb128> I would use the web ui if I had a I don't care button to filter things out of the bug lists
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I guess that's a little different for my workflow; for apport, I look at all the new ones and set them to incomplete (and subscribe) or triaged, or close the ones I fixed in the meamtime
<pitti> same for dk-disks
<pitti> but I'm upstream for both of those, so it's a little different
<seb128> the issue with that is that once a bug is triaged you sort of ignore it
<seb128> it could get a thousand duplicate you would not notice
<seb128> or comments rather
<asac> pitti: yes. it hasnt seen any upstream release for ages
<asac> and for the sake of getting the security nightmare out i think its worthwhile to drop
<asac> mvo: figured what added something to interfaces?
<asac> mvo: did you get my offer to fix apt yesterday ;)
<asac> mvo: i wanted to factor out the "is_valid_filename_char" ... as it seems to be done in various places (and for preferences.d there is no "." allowed)
<asac> so a) do you want that ... b) where to put such general utility funcs?
<pitti> asac: want me to blacklist it as well? it was removed from debian testing, but not from sid
<mvo> asac: contrib/strutil.cc or contrib/fileutil.cc
<mvo> asac: probably the former
<mvo> asac: good idea!
<asac> pitti: afaik debian has xul 1.9.1 ... so if a new upload happens in debian it will probably for that 1.9.1 port
<pitti> asac: right, debian has a "xulrunner" package and that's 1.9.1
<pitti> ok, not blacklisting then
<mvo> asac: I can do it between upgrade tests too if you want
<pitti> asac: hah, bfilter never actually built
<asac> mvo: no ... i want to submit at least one merge in my life ;)
<mvo> ahah
<mvo> ok
<mvo> :)
<asac> pitti: yes. because the js api changed
<pitti> *flush*
<asac> it uses JS_..BranchCallback which wes dropped without any valid replacement
<pitti> seb128: minor request: can you please subscribe me to bugs, not assign?
<pitti> seb128: I want to avoid having all the incomplete ones on my +assignedbugs page
<pitti> I'm subscribed, so I'll timely respond to them either way
<seb128> pitti, ok will do, sorry about though I was not sure which one were reaching you nowadays
<pitti> seb128: no need to be sorry, no problem
<pitti> seb128: they both reach me
<seb128> ok
<seb128> noted
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> merci! *hug*
<seb128> pitti, and let me know if I should stop subscribing you to those keyboard and eject issues
<pitti> seb128: oh, please continue to do so
<pitti> it seems that several people are affected by this "Multiple layouts in /etc/default/console-setup" issue
<seb128> I think you know how to debug those bugs since you worked on some of this changes
<seb128> yes
<pitti> no idea where it comes from, but it's easy to set manually and thus not hard to fix
<seb128> right, I was wondering if the installer can set several in some cases too
<seb128> I see that you replied on the upstream bug about stopping to define cdrom entries in fstab too
<seb128> seems it's leading to quite some issues
<seb128> it also leads to have nautilus not refreshing it's view on eject
<pitti> yeah, cdrom in fstab is 3v1l
<pitti> I just keep telling people to remove those
 * pitti cd kitchen && lunch
 * seb128 just back from lunch
<seb128> pitti, enjoy
<kenvandine> seb128, hey
<seb128> hello kenvandine
<seb128> how are you?
<kenvandine> seb128, your last change to empathy, adding the symbols
<seb128> yes?
<kenvandine> breaks building it
<kenvandine> not sure what is up
<kenvandine> obviously it built for the archive
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/2.28.1-1ubuntu1
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> but doesn't build locally, in pbuilder or in my ppa
<kenvandine> i had to remove those
<seb128> you already said you didn't have the symbols in your build log
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> weird
 * asac lunch and errands bbiw
<seb128> are those conditional to some build option?
<kenvandine> i had to remove them to build it in my ppa
<kenvandine> dunno
<kenvandine> i have looked to closely
<kenvandine> i do have the leak fix built into a ppa and asked folks to test
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> kenvandine, dunno about the symbol issue though
<seb128> kenvandine, do you track bug #450290 too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450290 in empathy "empathy crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450290
<seb128> kenvandine, it got another duplicate today
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> so about that one... do we have a way of looking for libs that haven't been updated properly?
<seb128> what do you mean?
<kenvandine> like a failed update, leaving around old files
<kenvandine> that's kind of what they were suggesting was the case
<seb128> urg
<seb128> which file would create an issue and why?
<kenvandine> not sure, but notice he re-installed and it worked fro him
<kenvandine> for
<seb128> that's weird
<seb128> I would rather say it's a coincidence
<kenvandine> yeah, this is one i know i had re-produced and confirmed fixing
<kenvandine> or maybe the transition between versions wasn't great
<kenvandine> doubt that would be it actually
<kenvandine> this is from empathy itself, not libempathy
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure if bug #459274 is the same
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459274 in empathy "Empathy crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() when receiving a file through a jabber connection" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459274
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - you sure that crash is not from libempathy?
<chrisccoulson> it starts because empathy_contact_list_get_monitor returns a NULL pointer
<chrisccoulson> and that then gets passed to g_signal_connect, which will make it crash
<chrisccoulson> frame 2 of the stack trace:
<chrisccoulson> monitor = (EmpathyContactMonitor *) 0x0
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, could be
<pitti> seb128: do you know if bug 381116  is the same as bug 428884? I. e. does totem use g-screensaver --poke ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 381116 in totem "Screensaver not inhibited while playing movies" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381116
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver --poke functionality does no longer inhibit screen blanking" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884
<chrisccoulson> i might have overlooked something really stupid here, but to me, it seems like EmpathyTpContactList doesn't implement get_monitor, which would make empathy_contact_list_get_monitor return NULL and trigger this crash
<chrisccoulson> but i've only had a quick look, i should be doing work really
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine^^
<Zdra> chrisccoulson, to me the whole concept of EmpathyContactMonitor is wrong. I have no idea why we added that
 * pitti updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ FYI
<seb128> pitti, I don't think it's the same issue
 * asac lurks on releasestatus
 * pitti removes obsolete and confusing commentary from there, please reload
<chrisccoulson> Zdra - yeah, I don't know the empathy code too well, so I can't really have a well-informed opinion ;)
<chrisccoulson>  I just had a quick look because of a crash some users are seeing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - totem (correctly) uses the gnome-session inhibit interface
<chrisccoulson> like VLC should do ;)
<pitti> right, I figured
<kenvandine> pitti, btw jcastro seems to be getting that crash with the leak fix version... so perhaps you are just lucky
<pitti> which made me wonder why the totem one is "fix committed"
<pitti> kenvandine: entirely possible
<chrisccoulson> Zdra - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33599139/Stacktrace.txt is the crash I just took a quick look at
<kenvandine> pitti, good news is he can very easily trigger it
<seb128> pitti, the bug watch points to "web browser plugin doesn't inhibit screensaver"
<seb128> pitti, which is fixed in 2.28.2
<kenvandine> basically during a chat, he closes the chat window and then starts a new chat via the contact list
<kenvandine> and it crashes
<pitti> seb128: ah; but it would still fail because of 428884
<seb128> pitti, so there is probably a mix of different issues there
<pitti> kenvandine: sounds familiar
<Zdra> chrisccoulson, drop the libindicator patch ?
<seb128> pitti, no, I think totem use the gnome-session api
<Zdra> chrisccoulson, must be related to that, I never say such crash in upstream
<chrisccoulson> that's not really an option for me at the moment, as I'm at work, and I can't trigger the crash ;)
<pitti> seb128: ah, so it's not affected by the --poke thing?
<seb128> Zdra, could you stop making such comments every day?
<seb128> pitti, I don't think so but should be confirmed
<seb128> Zdra, I could suggest drop empathy which would be almost as constructive
<asac> jcastro: how do you reproduce the empathy crash?
<asac> for me empathy works ;)
<seb128> pitti, I can't confirm the totem issue there
<seb128> pitti, I just tried it inhibit correctly screen
<chrisccoulson> WFM too
<kenvandine> asac, here is what he is doing
<kenvandine> he is chatting with me and closes the chat window
<kenvandine> then immediately goes to the contact list and double clicks on me to start a new chat
<kenvandine> and it crashes almost every time
<asac> hmm
<kenvandine> empathy:ERROR:empathy-tp-chat.c:1391:empathy_tp_chat_acknowledge_message: assertion failed: (m != NULL)
<kenvandine> i can't reproduce that
<asac> kenvandine: jabber?
<kenvandine> yes
<asac> i guess empathy doesnt support gpg ?
<kenvandine> upstream thinks it was a leak, which was clearly there
 * asac wonders if he can migrate there
<kenvandine> i fixed that
<asac> yeah i remember that discussion
<kenvandine> pitti was getting the crash pretty frequently
<kenvandine> with the leak fixed, it hasn't crashed for him
<jcastro> asac: I just close a window and then initiate a conversation
<asac> yeah
<asac> thanks
<jcastro> asac: so never when I respond to someone, only when I start up a conversation
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> kenvandine, want to do the 2.28.1.1 sru?
<cassidy> you should really ship empathy 2.28.1.1
<cassidy> I fixed a lof of nasty bugs
<seb128> cassidy, right, it's on my "to sru" list ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, I was about to do it now let me know if you prefer to do it
<asac> kenvandine: where is the leak fixed version?
<kenvandine> seb128, let me...
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you think it's fine to fix libindicate and update in the same update?
<asac> i assume it didnt end up in karmic?
<kenvandine> in my empathy ppa
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you think it's fine to fix libindicate and update the version in the same update?
<pitti> seb128: sure, if the other changes are SRU compliant
<asac> kenvandine: have a .dsc?
<kenvandine> asac, one sec
<seb128> pitti, yes it's a bug fix only GNOME update
<pitti> seb128: my opinion didn't change in the last 1.5 seconds :-)
<asac> thx i can check too ... but inet is slow ;)
<pitti> j/k
<seb128> pitti, I added some words to clarify the "update in the same update" ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> asac, https://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/empathy/+packages
<kenvandine> you can grab the source there
<kenvandine> or debs
<asac> heh. thatts not a .dsc, but thanks. let me grab it
<kenvandine> asac, there is a .dsc there :)
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/empathy/+files/empathy_2.28.1-1ubuntu1+r64.dsc
<asac> ok out for a bit testing stuff
<asac> NM et al
<seb128> urg
<seb128> rickspencer3's reminding landed in my launchpad bugsbox
<pitti> l
<seb128> pitti, s
<pitti> -EFOCUS, sorry
<seb128> pitti, is it worth trying current iso or will we get a respin?
<pitti> seb128: we'll get a respin very soon for an ubiquity fix
<pitti> seb128: (OEM installer with encrypted home dirs)
<pitti> but "trying" for testing is always appreciated
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me try the "reinstall but don't wipe user dir" on my netbook
<chrisccoulson> wow, i'm going to have to do a hardy install later
<chrisccoulson> that's going to seem ancient ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for pidgin? back when I did security updates, a mere chroot was more than enough for that..
<pedro_> could anybody reproduce bug 404351 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404351 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404351
<pedro_> i still don't managed to reproduce it here, it's getting a lot of dups and there's no easy way to reproduce it besides just login in
<seb128> no
<pedro_> we're still missing a good backtrace there though :-/
 * pedro_ kicks nautilus
<seb128> I expect it's a crash at session closing
<seb128> ie it's a non issue
<seb128> we just don't know how to filter those automatically
<pedro_> right i was thinking it was as session closing, because of the exit() function there, but the comments said it's at login, so i'm a bit lost
<pedro_> s/as/on
<seb128> pedro_, well, you close the session, nautilus crashes, when will you see apport?
<pedro_> seb128, good point
<kenvandine> cassidy, just noticed something about bug 408530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408530 in empathy "empathy assertion failure: empathy:ERROR:empathy-tp-chat.c:1391:empathy_tp_chat_acknowledge_message: assertion failed: (m != NULL)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408530
<kenvandine> cassidy, it was originally filed against 2.26.1 which didn't have the libindicate patch
<Zdra> kenvandine, the crash happens if EmpathyChat object is leaked. We fixed another bug in upstream that had that same issue
<kenvandine> ok, the leak was real for sure
<kenvandine> and my fix did work for jcastro and pitti went quite a while without a crash but just got one
<jcastro> I am still not crashed!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> and jcastro could reproduce it very easily
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is bug 454487 ok for a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 454487 in gnome-desktop "The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error. During on a FreeNX server suring a session. The crash does not happen when xrandr plugin is disabled." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/454487
<chrisccoulson> stgraber has already tested the patch and confirms it works
<chrisccoulson> (the patch is in my PPA currently, but i will prepare a debdiff later)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems a good sru candidate indeed
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: sounds fine; how intrusive is it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. regression potential for normal local usage?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the patch is here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34294574/gnome-desktop_1%3A2.28.1-0ubuntu2_1%3A2.28.1-0ubuntu3~chrisccoulson1.diff.gz
<chrisccoulson> it just traps X errors when calling XRRGetScreenResources
<chrisccoulson> under these circumstances, the xrandr plugin would be disabled
<pitti> chrisccoulson: seems fine
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll prepare a debdiff for that later
<pitti> seb128: still planning/doing that test install on your netbook?
<seb128> pitti, yes, I'm writting iso to usb key right now
<pitti> seb128: the "keep old files" is broken right now unfortunately
<seb128> pitti, want me to try something?
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't clean up /var and /usr
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> seb128: would be great if you could postpone that; I think we'll have new images in some 2 hours
<pitti> and then we need to test that mode
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks for letting me know
<pitti> nice timing
<pitti> cjwatson just found it
<hggdh> seb128: it ends up that there was a hard limit of 100 cache pages for SQLite in Evo. A patch has just been commited upstream for 2.28 and trunk
<seb128> hggdh, did anybody notice a different with other cache values?
<hggdh> I had 3 responses from my query to evolution-hackers, all positive. This will only make a difference on large folders.db
<hggdh> no negative responses
<seb128> right, I'm just wondering how much difference it makes
<seb128> rather curious than discussion the change being correct
<hggdh> we have not yet tested different cache sizes. The default is 2000, but I am not sure if I have a large enough DB to make a difference if I increase it
<seb128> hggdh, pedro_: there is a zillion e-d-s crash bugs on launchpad btw
<hggdh> what we did was simply take out the hard limit of 100 pages
<seb128> it's new from this cycle, lot of random dbus crashes
<seb128> not sure if there should all be dupped from one bug or something
<seb128> hggdh, ok thanks
<hggdh> seb128: will look at the EDS crashes
<seb128> hggdh, I guess that will go with the next evolution update or sru in karmic
<seb128> hggdh, thanks
<pedro_> i'll take a look into that
<hggdh> I agree
<seb128> pedro_, thanks too
<hggdh> seb128: depending on results, we might want to consider a SRU to Jaunty
<hggdh> er, backporting the fix
<seb128> right
<seb128> though I doubt many user will care about jaunty after karmic
<seb128> it's not a lts
<hggdh> oh, yes. Forgot, sorry
<kenvandine> seb128, building empathy 2.28.1.1 i get this:
<kenvandine> - empathy_location_manager_dup_singleton@Base 2.28.1-1ubuntu1
<kenvandine> - empathy_location_manager_get_type@Base 2.28.1-1ubuntu1
<kenvandine> +#MISSING: 2.28.1.1-1ubuntu1# empathy_location_manager_dup_singleton@Base 2.28.1-1ubuntu1
<kenvandine> +#MISSING: 2.28.1.1-1ubuntu1# empathy_location_manager_get_type@Base 2.28.1-1ubuntu1
<kenvandine> which is the ones you added, should i push as is and let you try to reproduce that?
<seb128> yes please
<kenvandine> pushed
<seb128> kenvandine, building, I will let you know in a minute
<seb128> kenvandine, do you still plan to update the changelog? you dropped half of the NEWS summary apparently and you can probably close some bugs too
<kenvandine> seb128, they are dupes from 2.28.1
<seb128> kenvandine, oh ok
<seb128> kenvandine, empathy builds fine there
<kenvandine> so weird
<kenvandine> i had the same build failure in the ppa
<seb128> what arch do you use?
<kenvandine> locally it was x86
<kenvandine> the ppa failed for all the arches
<seb128> $ nm -D debian/libempathy-gtk28/usr/lib/libempathy-gtk.so.28 | grep empathy_location_manager_get_type
<seb128> 00049b20 T empathy_location_manager_get_type
<seb128> in the build dir
 * kenvandine does the same
<sailor> wie kan mij helpen, please
<seb128> sailor, #ubuntu
<kenvandine> seb128, returns nothing
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, so for some reason the symbol is not in the lib for you
<sailor> mijn ubuntu os crasht denk dat het met ATI catalyst driver te maken heeft
<sailor> wie kan mij helpen?
<seb128> sailor, it's an english speaking channel
<seb128> sailor, try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-<locale> for user questions
<sailor> Okay sorry
<pitti> sailor: #ubuntu-nl exists
<sailor> you can not help me?
<seb128> no
<sailor> #ubuntu
<kenvandine> seb128, i bet you have libchamplain and geoclue installed
<kenvandine> seb128, look at config.log, you are building it with location awareness
<seb128> kenvandine, no
<seb128> $ dpkg -l | grep libchamplain
<seb128> $
<seb128> libgeoclue is installed though
<kenvandine> oh... yeah i think that is enough
<kenvandine> libgeoclue-dev?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> weird that it did build in the official archive though
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> very weird
<seb128> I'm dropping those now
<seb128> and adding some bug reference in the changelog
<kenvandine> thx
<Riddell> rickspencer3: when is the meeting today?
<pitti> well, the wiki page says 1630 UTC, so it should be an hour earlier than last week (with DST being gone)?
<asac> i would think so
<kenvandine> so in 5m right?
<asac> at least if we follow the calendar
<asac> hmm
<asac> according to calendar its 6:30 ... still
<bryce_> morning
<asac> i would prefer 5:30 if everyone is here ;)
<asac> ... feel a bit tired today
<seb128> the meeting should be in one hour no?
<asac> no ;)
<asac> hehe
<kenvandine> 3m
<bryce_> rick is in london this week, fwiw
<asac> no. the question was in 3 minutes or in 1h
<seb128> 1h
<seb128> we usually keep european time no?
<asac> last time there was disagreement of calendar and wiki we said wiki
<asac> is the proper source for time info
<kenvandine> should be 1630 UTC right?
<asac> that says in 2m
<seb128> no, 1730UTC
<pitti> seb128: our wiki page says UTC..
<asac>  i think it should be 1730 in future
<seb128> usually we kept constant european hours
<asac> question is if we should use 1630 this time
<pitti> hm; I hoped we'd get it a little earler, but oh well :)
<seb128> 1730 collide with my weekly call with rick
<asac> as wiki is the public source for the time
<asac> i prefer 1630 ... so on pitti's side
<asac> seb128: that feels like fixable
<pitti> I'm fine with either, though; if 1730 UTC causes fewer conflicts, let's keep it
<seb128> asac, it's fixable either way yes
<asac> yeah
<seb128> I just said that until now we mostly kept constant utc times
<asac> i am fine with both ... just would like to follow wiki today :-P
<seb128> brb
<seb128> re
<seb128> I'm there for the meeting if it's now
<rickspencer3> it's now?
<asac> wiki says so ;)
<rickspencer3> my calendar says in one hour
<asac> calendar not
<seb128> rickspencer3, we were arguing over it
<seb128> rickspencer3, I said one hour but other say now
<rickspencer3> whatever
<asac> i would prefer to follow wiki if everyone is here
<seb128> we have the issue every dst ;-)
<rickspencer3> I think Google Calendar is confused with different time zones
<awe> +1
<ccheney> heh
<rickspencer3> ok, let's go
<ArneGoetje> please stick to UTC, makes things easier :)
<kenvandine> ok
<asac> very good
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, asac, ccheney,
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: here
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, br
<rickspencer3> bryce_,
<rickspencer3> Riddell,
 * bryce_ waves
<ccheney> here
<asac> 20-char column mode ;)?
<pitti> o/
 * pedro_ waves
 * awe waves for my last desktop meeting
 * asac waves
<Riddell> hi
<rickspencer3> no till?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-10-27
<asac> awe: 6 month is way too short :(
<rickspencer3> awe's last team meeting?
<rickspencer3> :'(
<awe> well, i'm not disappearing completely...
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> awe, we'll still drink with you at UDS :)
<pitti> awe: thanks for your work in our team; was a pleasure
<asac> for sure
<rickspencer3> ditto
<awe> thanks for having me.  i have a much better appreciation of what you all do.  ;)
<rickspencer3> ready for the agenda?
<pitti> ccheney: likewise, will you return to desktop full time next week?
<rickspencer3> pitti, ccheney the answer is "yes" ;)
<ccheney> pitti: yes, pretty much been that way for the past two weeks to get OOo under control
<rickspencer3> pitti, the first two agenda items were yours
<rickspencer3> do you want to take it away?
<rickspencer3>     * Check your bugs for things which should be SRUed
<rickspencer3>     * Think about your personal lucid goals/wishlist until next week
<pitti> they pretty much speak for themselves
<pitti> so, for SRU bugs
<pitti> I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus today
<pitti> and it seems there's not that much which needs urgent post-RC fixing
<pitti> but if you have something, please go ahead and turn your bugs into SRU bugs (justification, subscribe ubuntu-sru)
<pitti> and please already upload
<pitti> karmic-proposed is open for upload
<rickspencer3> what about the empathy crasher?
<pitti> I'll review/accept those right after release
<seb128> uploaded one minute ago now
<seb128> I'm doing the paper work for the empathy update
<pitti> rickspencer3: the patch seems to make it better, but it still happens
<seb128> kenvandine did the actual update
<pitti> the original crash predates the indicator patch
<seb128> pitti, oh, you got it again?
<rickspencer3> right
<seb128> pitti, the original crash was fixed upstream
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, jcastro could consistently reproduce the bug and my patch fixed it for him
<pitti> seb128: once so far
<rickspencer3> so I saw kenvandine's comment on the bug
<asac> i think we should check a day or two if we can find the full fix for empathy
<kenvandine> but pitti did hit the crash one more time
<rickspencer3> ok, that's good, at lease one crasher is solved
<asac> unless folks say its fixed.
<pitti> seb128: oh, I didn't try the new release yet, just the patch
<seb128> pitti, no, I mean before karmic
<seb128> what leads to the crash is a leak
<pitti> anyway, just wanted to point out the procedure for SRU
<kenvandine> there might be other leaks that cause the same problem
<seb128> there was one in upstream code which has been fixed
<seb128> and the libindicate has some others
<seb128> we need to find maybe yet another codepath leaking
<pitti> seb128: our patch + new upstream version together might well fix it
<rickspencer3> k
<asac> kenvandine: i looked at the patch and wondered why you didnt do the g_signal_connect_data thing to free the cb_data ?
<pitti> the other piece:
<pitti> asac: let's continue the details after meeting, shall we?
<asac> sure
<asac> go ahead
<pitti> I guess on Friday we'll all chill out and do something easy, like catch up on mail and something
 * seb128 is taking a vac day again
<rickspencer3> are there other SRUable bugs that should be on our ReleaseStatus page?
<asac> i will hopefully do holiday ;)
<pitti> but for meeting next week I'm curious about everyone's ideas for lucid
<pitti> no fine-grained plans, just some rough ideas what you would like to work on
<rickspencer3> pitti, I have discussed with many folks 1-1 about Lucid
<seb128> lowering the number of rough edges
<pitti> so that we can start putting together an UDS agenda
 * ccheney will be leaving this weekend for OOoCon
<seb128> ie tackling annoying issues
<pitti> rickspencer3: oh, great
<seb128> as we did in hardy
<rickspencer3> but not everyone
<seb128> do we need a real project ?
<rickspencer3> seb128, not necessarily
<seb128> or using extra time to polish what we have is one?
<pitti> so, I thought it'd be nice to sit together and throw our main focus areas into the pot to get a first idea about what we'll work on
<asac> for karmic?
<seb128> there is many bugs around for a while that I would like time to work on
<rickspencer3> one thing I want is for people to get to work on something that they are passionate about at least onto a list of consideration
<pitti> seb128: that's great
<rickspencer3> seb128, if you are passionate about polish, that's fine
<seb128> good
<seb128> thanks guys ;-)
<bryce_> rickspencer3, there is one kind of bad bug that might be worth an sru
<rickspencer3> pitti, when should we start putting in blueprints?
<pitti> seb128: I personally think it's good for people to have at least one pet project and not doing bug fixing all the time, but of course it's up to you :)
<rickspencer3> oops
<bryce_> rickspencer3, if you put a typo into your xorg.conf it locks up your system with the screen blinking
<rickspencer3> uh
<pitti> rickspencer3: can we do that on our 1-1 call next Wednesday, after the meeting?
<pitti> rickspencer3: at least start on it?
<rickspencer3> pitti, sure
<pitti> bryce_: that sounds like a good SRU fix
<bryce_> rickspencer3, seems to be some interaction between gdm and upstart
<pitti> rickspencer3: [done with my two bits]
<bryce_> pitti, there is already a bug about it filed against gdm
<bryce_> pitti, ok I'll mark it as a release bug
<seb128> it's a gdm issue, it keeps retrying
<pitti> bryce_: thanks
<seb128> the old gdm has a retry counter
<bryce_> seb128, actually, gdm does give up after 5 tries
<seb128> oh, nice
<bryce_> seb128, but then upstart restarts gdm
<seb128> so there is a misleading bug open
<pitti> ah, bugger
<seb128> ah, I see
<rickspencer3> hehe
<pitti> I don't think it ever should, TBH
<bryce_> it blinks *really* fast, it's kind of cool
<rickspencer3> bryce_, is there a bug # for those of us watching from home?
<rickspencer3> (or the office in this case)
<bryce_> bug 441638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441638 in gdm "gdm main process keeps dying and respawning on reboot after karmic beta install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441638
<rickspencer3> bryce_, thanks for the heads up, moving on ...
<bryce_> it's easy to reproduce, just "echo 'foo' >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf" and reboot
<rickspencer3> this seems rather bad
<rickspencer3> that bug I mean
<rickspencer3> speaking of which ...
<rickspencer3> next item is release notes
<rickspencer3> I just wanted to say "don't forget about release notes" ;)
<pitti> ^ for documenting major bug workarounds, etc.
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/ReleaseNotes
<rickspencer3> pitti, may I ask people to seek guidance from you if you have questions?
<pitti> and if you want to do last-minute "new features" documentation, use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview
<pitti> right; best is to come to #u-release and discuss it first
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> I have one last item not on the agend
<rickspencer3> as you may know, I am sitting in the office in Milbank right now
<pitti> rickspencer3: (agenda: add meeting time, please)
<rickspencer3> the excitement here about Karmic is palpable
<pitti> âª let's do the karmic dance â«
<and471> hehe
<awe> w00t
<and471> mac_v: I have been starting to create a humanity theme for claws mail :-)
<pitti> /msg rickspencer3 the fridge is usually filled well with beer, FYI :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, how is karmic looking from milbank comments?
<pitti> I bet everyone is bugging you about fixing their laptop :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, not too many people complaining about things broken around? ;-)
<rickspencer3> ok, so I wish I could tell all you folks how much excitement there is about the release, and how muh people here appreciate your efforts
<and471> mpt: I just saw your latest tweet and I happened to be looking at that an hour previously :-)
<rickspencer3> it's the opposite
<and471> mpt: I never thought something I contributed to would be on the front page of BBC :-)
<rickspencer3> seems that we are on the cusp of something big, and people are really happy
<rickspencer3> and471, exactly, well put! ;)
<rickspencer3> ok, so pitti had one last agenda item
<rickspencer3> pitti, go ahead
<pitti> there was some confusion about the  meeting time
<pitti> our wiki says 1630 UTC, and fridge (?) adapted that to non-DST
<pitti> so we need to decide whether we want to stick to UTC (always) or move with DST (keeping in mind that we'll move the southern hemisphere by 2 hours then)
<and471> rickspencer3: an image on OMGUbuntu puts it even better :-) http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/SubSNrGcgxI/AAAAAAAAEGY/B9c6LRaPt58/image_thumb%5B4%5D.png?imgmax=800
<rickspencer3> pitti, this happens whenever the clocks  change
<ArneGoetje> to hell with DST! ;)
 * kenvandine thinks we should follow UTC
<pitti> ArneGoetje++
<rickspencer3> pitti, may I ask you to make a recommendation and we can all stick to it?
<kenvandine> seems less confusing
<mac_v> and471: hi... mail icons? as in reply/forward and so on?
<awe> pitti, the fridge is UTC and is correct
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think we should just keep it at 1630 UTC all the time, unless it causes too many conflicts, but I do'nt have a firm opinion
<rickspencer3> ((keep in mind no matter what we decide, I will end up confused ;) )
<asac> ++
<ArneGoetje> ++
<asac> i am for constant UTC
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it's that pointy hair
<rickspencer3> okay, it's pitti's call, and seems to be consensus
<and471> mac_v: yup, so claws mail doesn't using the gtk icon theme, so all of the icons have to be packaged seperately (ie. reply forward) but also I have created some panel icons in the greyscale style
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, it's really a team decision
<mac_v> and471: you've got the worst timing in the world ;p
<rickspencer3> so 1630 UTC, but kenvandine will have to ping me and remind me next week ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, we need to rediscuss our weekly call slot then ;-)
<pitti> does anyone have objections against 1630 UTC?
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer3> seb128, okay
 * ccheney likes it being set to UTC regardless of actual time that is decided on
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, our clocks didn't change yet :)
<mac_v> and471: just uploaded those icons yesterday ;p
<and471> mac_v: hehe
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, exactly, so I will be confused again next week
<and471> mac_v: are they on the branch
<pitti> I maintain tzdata and know how often DST rules change (ugh)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, oh right... it is this sunday :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, seems the team agrees with you
<bryce_> is it currently 1730?
<pitti> bryce_: 1657 UTC now
<rickspencer3> lol
<bryce_> pitti, no, is the meeting time set to 1730 currently?
 * kenvandine wishes google calendar could remember that :)
<ccheney> bryce_: 1630
<pitti> bryce_: no, our wiki has always said "1630 UTC"
<bryce_> ok
<rickspencer3> ok, let's wrap this up on a high note though
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to add a permanent record of this to the wiki
<rickspencer3> Karmic is an epic, but epic release
<rickspencer3> I hope everyone is very very proud of their contributions, and excited about the future
<seb128> \o/
<pitti> karmic's new features plus the polish/bug fixes in lucid -> awesome
<asac> yes. i used todays live usb image and karmic is a great release.
<pitti> great job everyone
<chrisccoulson> :)
<asac> not enough sleep again, but you now see that it pays off ... and i am sure most users will think the same :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks so much for your hard work, too!
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, thanks for your great contributions, Amaranth, didrocks, dtchen (too may others to mention)
<chrisccoulson> pitti / rickspencer3 - you're wecome
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks, you really did rocking work this cycle
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<seb128> same for didrocks and some others ;-)
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<pitti> so, let's get this out of the door, sleep, have a great weekend, and then think about new goodness
<seb128> do we know when lucid will open btw?
 * kenvandine keeps trying to re-install karmic x86_64 on this laptop, but keep getting derailed into empathy debugging
<kenvandine> :)
<asac> seb128: not before we release ;)
<seb128> asac, hey no hurry anyway
<asac> or are you asking for upload queue? i would like to have it already too
<seb128> I usually spend a week or two on srus
<asac> ack
<pitti> seb128: I guess a day or two after release, but as usual it will start frozen for the toolchain bootstrap
 * Amaranth is sad to not have any more updates every day :)
<asac> hehe
<rickspencer3> hi tkamppeter
<pitti> last thing, we need to re-roll iso images
<bryce_> Amaranth, there's always xorg-edgers if you get desperate
<pitti> helping out with testing appreciated
<rickspencer3> pitti, ack, thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<seb128> pitti, do we know when new images will be there?
<rickspencer3> hmm
<Amaranth> bryce_: I need my usermode mode setting so no
<bryce_> thanks
<rickspencer3> is anyone going to overlap with the Eastern Edition?
<pitti> seb128: order of an hour
<rickspencer3> I just realized that I'm going to miss that
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> awe ?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I don't think so, nothing urgent to do now so I will stop working not too late
<awe> ?
<awe> rickspencer3, sure, i can attend...
<asac> rickspencer3: the riverbank has wifi in the lobby ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> asac, I think you just got volunteered thanks to your comment ;-)
<asac> ... or bar
 * seb128 runs
<rickspencer3> awe, well, just let them know to look at the log ;)
<rickspencer3> TheMuso ^ no Eastern Edition
<awe> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks awe <3
<asac> i am not sure... but i might really be around, but i could crash so i dont want to commit to that if possible
<seb128> asac, I was joking
<asac> hehe
<asac> good ;)
 * seb128 hugs asac
 * asac hugs seb128 
<seb128> you should get some well deserved sleep too
 * seb128 plans to do that
<seb128> or maybe I will let some installs running while I watch tv or something
<asac> yeah ... i reduced the daily dose of caffeine already ;)
<jcastro> kenvandine: still 0 crashes so far, it's never gone this long!
<kenvandine> woot woot
<ccheney> jcastro: have you seen the weird resume failures on your x200?
<jcastro> ccheney: not lately no
<ccheney> jcastro: ok
<jcastro> ccheney: want me to test?
<ccheney> jcastro: i think maybe its more a case of really slow resume because i was getting them but then started waiting longer before power cycling
<jcastro> ccheney: just one time ubuntuone crashes on resume, so I filed a bug about that
<ccheney> oh i mean my system would not come back from resume at all
<jcastro> oh wow, I've never seen that
<ccheney> but i tested a bit more and it seems to just sometimes take a long (> 10s) time to resume
<jcastro> that's odd
<ccheney> with the suspend light just blinking
<jcastro> I don't think I've ever had a failure like that the entire time I've had it
<ccheney> if i manage to make it happen without actually resuming again i'll file a bug
<jcastro> when my thing fails it's suspend that breaks
<ccheney> ah
<tkamppeter> hi rickspencer3
<dtchen> jcastro: / ccheney: what sort of suspend/resume failures?
<asac> kenvandine: so connect_data vs. just connect ... how is that supposed to work?
<kenvandine> asac, i am not sure... i have a patch that uses connect_data but it doesn't do what i expected
<kenvandine> so i didn't push that yet
<asac> kenvandine: whats the wrong behaviour?
<jcastro> dtchen: I've been fine for most of the cycle, haven't had a problem in a while. ccheney's the broken one. :p
<kenvandine> i had tried to get tedg to look at it yesterday but i guess he was busy
<kenvandine> asac, well i am sure i am just doing it wrong :)
<asac> kenvandine: was that on top of what you have atm? or a replacement patch?
<kenvandine> on top of
<asac> kenvandine: good. ... so i would think using connect_data and using the notification_free thing as callback might work. but i assume you did that?
<kenvandine> that is what i did
<asac> and what didnt work?
<kenvandine> it is never calling free_notification_data
<asac> ;)
<asac> is that chat-window object finalized/disposed?
<kenvandine> let me paste it... one sec
<kenvandine> it should be
<kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/302956/
<kenvandine> asac, ^^
<kenvandine> i commented out the call to free_notification_data in chat_window_indicator_activate_cb because it was causing an error in the unref
<kenvandine> so i thought it was working
<asac> kenvandine: and you see the Finalize DBG output?
<kenvandine> but that debug message never gets printed
<Laney> what if it wasn't?
<Laney> what if it wasn't?
<Laney> [A
<Laney> [A
<Laney> ooer
<Laney> excuse me
<asac> huh?
<tedg> kenvandine: Why don't you just put "cb_data" in the private struct, and then unref it when the whole object dies?
<Laney> accidental input
<kenvandine> maybe it is getting called, just not when i think it should
<kenvandine> tedg, i hadn't considered that
<asac> first i would check if the window ever gets finalized
<asac> anyway out for a few
<didrocks> thanks everyone (just got my new passeport \o/)
<mac_v> hmmm ,.. anyone know how... [In nautilus side pane ] to place nautilus bookmarks on top and the rest of the filesystem and trash below?
<pitti> new ubuntu desktop images up for testing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - where are the images?
<chrisccoulson> (that might sound like a silly question) ;)
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: On the t'interweb :)
<chrisccoulson> davmor2 - really? ;)
<chrisccoulson> at cdimages?
<chrisccoulson> are they the latest ones?
<davmor2> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<chrisccoulson> excellent, thanks:)
<jcastro> is the gwibber auto-url-shortener broken for anyone else?
<pitti> re
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what davmor2 said
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
<chrisccoulson> i probably should have known that ;)
<seb128> pitti, thanks for taking over the gdm respawn bug
<seb128> pitti, do you know if isos are good to test now?
<pitti> np
<pitti> seb128: yes, they are
<seb128> ok good
<pitti> currently writing my usb stick
 * seb128 rsync
<pitti> I'm off for the next hour for reinstalling my box
<chrisccoulson> heh, i suspect the archives are going to grind to a halt on release day
 * chrisccoulson must make sure his pbuilder is up to date
<seb128> chrisccoulson, better to use mirrors yes
<seb128> the archive.ubuntu.com speed is already slow for a week now
<kenvandine> jcastro, do you have any specific url shortener selected?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it is pretty slow now. i suppose that using a mirror is not so bad when packages aren't being updated as quickly. the mirrors won't be out of date by as much then
<chrisccoulson> woah, hardy pidgin with the yahoo fix built first time
<chrisccoulson> i must have done something wrong
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mclasen, hey, did you send you default location gnome-panel patch somewhere?
<seb128> I'm trying to find the corresponding upstream bug
<mclasen> seb128: default location ? thats just our panel config setting 'Boston' in gconf...
<jcastro> kenvandine: anyone I choose doesn't work
<seb128> mclasen, seems a good idea since the default can be by locale
<seb128> mclasen, any reason that shouldn't be done upstream too?
<mclasen> seb128: really, I want someone to finally finish the geoclue patch
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: use a caching proxy (I just blogged about it if you want to check it out)
<mclasen> seb128: I can give you the bug for _that_ if you like :-)
<seb128> no, I know the one about that
<seb128> somebody pointed to the change you have for order notify area icon
<seb128> so I looked at your other changes and that one seems useful too
<seb128> but right having geoloc working would be nice
<seb128> thanks
<jcastro> kenvandine: just had 2 crashers back to back. :-/
<kenvandine> jcastro, i have another patch for you to test :)
<chrisccoulson> jcastro - thanks for the tip:)
<seb128> mclasen, hum, an any reason you didn't add your change for the notification area order to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531282?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 531282 in notification area "Allow to arrange icons in the notification area" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> mclasen, the change you have seems quite different of the current upstream suggested change
<mclasen> seb128: that bug simply did not come up. I am pretty sure I put my patch in a different bug
<mclasen> also 'allow to arrange icons' is pretty different from 'hardcoded standard order'
<mclasen> seb128: my patch is a straight backport of  a gnome-shell patch
<seb128> mclasen, right, it's in your .spec, thanks, I think the issue is the same though
<mclasen> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583115
<ubottu> Gnome bug 583115 in notification area "make location of status icons more predictable" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> vuntz, ^ do you plan to do patches review soon? ;-)
<seb128> there is quite some patches in bugzilla that would be nice to get upstream
<seb128> though I guess upstream might not be much interested in GNOME 2.30 uses gnome-shell
<seb128> still would be nice to have for distros that still use gnome-panel
<TheMuso> Yay, wiki is down.
<TheMuso> Hrm now it works.
<chrisccoulson> wow, i can't believe how dated hardy feels now
<charlie-tca> I'll second that
<chrisccoulson> it just goes to show how far along karmic has come:)
<TheMuso> I'll third that.
<bryce_> chrisccoulson, judging from the amount of ubu-jealousy/ubu-hate I'm getting from the more fedora-oriented xorg folks, we must be doing pretty well this release ;-)
<TheMuso> heh
<chrisccoulson> heh, do you normally get a lot of abuse then?
<bryce_> yeah, off and on.  it's notched up a bit more than usual lately tho
<chrisccoulson> that's a shame:(
<TheMuso> Shame that.
<bryce_> what's funny is most of the stuff they've been harping on have been due to upstream changes
<chrisccoulson> what sort of stuff do they talk about?
<bryce_> ah, issues caused by the new gdm was the most recent
<chrisccoulson> yeah, gdm has caused us a few issues
<bryce_> also ubuntuone stuff, I guess they think "personal cloud" sounds silly
<chrisccoulson> but some of those issues shouldn't be new to other distro's that have been using the new version for several cycles now
<chrisccoulson> i haven't made much use of ubuntu one yet. i suppose that i probably will if i get myself a netbook
<chrisccoulson> thats a good excuse to buy one:)
<bryce_> I tried it when it first came out, but the icon would not stop being animated so I finally turned it off
<chrisccoulson> i don't think it's animated anymore
<bryce_> I was going to set up something for baby photos for the grandparents, but they're all on hardy so no ubuone there
<bryce_> facebook has suited the bill sufficiently so far
<chrisccoulson> it's maybe time to upgrade them ;)
<bryce_> yeah...
<chrisccoulson> you have a baby?
<bryce_> yep, name's Dutch, 6 weeks old
<chrisccoulson> excellent:)
<chrisccoulson> i will do at some point soon, if she hurries up!
<bryce_> chrisccoulson, http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/dutch-announce
<TheMuso> t/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-28
<chrisccoulson> Laney - this pidgin update is a PITA ;)
<chrisccoulson> i've got it to build now, and it even connects successfully to yahoo
<chrisccoulson> but then it crashes immediately
<chrisccoulson> oh well!
<TheMuso> .c
<didrocks> >qzqy
<didrocks> (^ for the record, this is a /away in qwerty on an azerty keyboard ;))
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning pitti
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i made some progress on the pidgin SRU last night
<chrisccoulson> it builds fine, and connects to yahoo now
<chrisccoulson> but then it crashes :(
<chrisccoulson> so, still some more work for me to do on that ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: great to hear!
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's getting there:)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did you just backport the entire yahoo stack? (might be easier)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i didn't do that. i managed to get the existing patch to apply with a bit of re-factoring
<chrisccoulson> but it currently adds 2 new members to an existing public struct in libpurple, which we probably want to avoid for a SRU
<chrisccoulson> so theres still a bit for me to do on that
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that doesn't sound like an API break, though?
<pitti> ABI, I mean
<chrisccoulson> i can leave it as it is if you're ok with it
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I think here it is safer to backport the entire stack than trying to mix old and new code; but I haven't really looked into it
<seb128> pitti, the netbook reinstall worked just fine there
<seb128> out of the fact that the mini 10 wireless doesn't seem to work
<chrisccoulson> pitti  - yeah, i'm not sure. my only concern is that we break other protocols that use this functionality in libpurple
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> it wasn't working on jaunty either
<seb128> but it's working on the unr image
<seb128> which is weird
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> seb128, what's the word on the street?
<seb128> all good as far as I can see there
<seb128> I reinstalled my mini 10 using an usb key without whipping install and it worked great
<rickspencer3> great!
<seb128> and my bugsmail box was not flooded today
<seb128> ie I already did read the backlog from the night
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> good start of day there
 * seb128 in good mood today ;-)
<pitti> euca still has a major installer bug, and there seems some trouble with i386+PAE, but otherwise good
<rickspencer3> pitti, bug #s?
<pitti> rickspencer3: bug 458904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458904 in eucalyptus "When installing a node, euca_find_cluster fails to locate the cluster controller if instances are running" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458904
 * rickspencer3 is setting next to mdz ;)
<pitti> rickspencer3: the other is just being discussed between cjwatson and ara in #u-release
<rickspencer3> hi mdz
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<mdz> pitti, the installer bug is not so major in my opinion, given the relative maturity of the feature. we decided last night to release note it since there is a workaround (manual configuration)
<proppy> hi
<proppy> kenvandine: could you remind me the EmpathyChatWindow bug #?
<pitti> seb128: btw, it seems the brasero upload got rejected? could you re-do that as SRU, please?
<seb128> pitti, the upgrade was from robert_ancell and the upload from themuso I think I will let them deal with that
<pitti> ok
<seb128> pitti, I will ping robert_ancell to tell him to do a sru
<seb128> pitti, thanks for following up there though
<seb128> pitti, new ubiquity, means respin of all images?
<pitti> seb128: only i386, not all the other arches
<seb128> pitti, new ubiquity, means respin of all images?
<seb128> ups
<pitti> seb128: that's why we uploaded to karmic-updates
<seb128> should really stop to scrolling up with focus going somewhere else
<pitti> so that we can re-spin i386 only
<seb128> thanks touchapd
<pitti> heh
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> unfortunate, but unavoidable :-(
<seb128> alright, I'm just asking because I didn't reinstall my laptop yet
<seb128> I will do that once the respin is there
<seb128> so far I reinstall my netbook and desktop worked great
<pitti> great, thanks
<seb128> reinstalled rather
<pitti> oh, your zoo has three computers now?
<seb128> it's faster to reinstall than to do rc to karmic upgrades
<seb128> yes, a desktop, a laptop and a netbook
<seb128> I don't use the desktop much nowadays though
<seb128> rather the laptop on the dock
<seb128> but the box is still there
<TheMuso> seb128: Already told him./
<mvo> seb128: could you still do a upgrade for me please? even if it takes long :) ?
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks
<mvo> seb128: just to report problems
<TheMuso> seb128: slangasek asked me to SRU it, and I passed it onto Robert.
<seb128> mvo, which one?
<mvo> seb128: I don't mind, one that you use and that is not upgraded yet
<seb128> mvo, in fact I did upgrade my laptop yesterday which worked
<seb128> I was still planning to reinstall because I've the feeling things get slower over years
<seb128> or it's just karmic boot time which went down
<seb128> I remember feeling my laptop being quite fast to boot when I got it
<seb128> it seems to take ages now
<mvo> seb128: ok, thats fine, I was only interessted in hearing about upgrade issues :)
<seb128> mvo, no issue from my side but I don't install tons of crazy things
<seb128> ie I've pretty much a standard install, those are well tested ;-)
 * mvo nods
<seb128> grub to gdm is over a minute on bootcharts there
<seb128> it's almost 2 minutes from start to desktop loaded
<seb128> it takes almost 15 seconds for xorg to start on the bootchart
<seb128> I'm wondering what is going on
<seb128> bbl, doing some boot charting and testing
 * Ng wonders why seahorse-agent isn't running
<Ng> I'm getting proper SSH key behaviour from something, but not for GPG keys (fresh karmic install on sunday)
<didrocks> Ng: You have to install seahorse-plugins
<Ng> didrocks: yeah I'm wondering if I installed that after I last booted
<didrocks> it's no more part of default installation
<didrocks> hey pedro_
<pedro_> salut didrocks
<Ng> hah, well given that I've not actually rebooted this install since the first day I used it, I guess that's what it is
<Ng> sorry ;)
<didrocks> Ng: yeah, the session is launched in /etc/xdg/autostart IIRC (I didn't checked)
<didrocks> so, just loggin off and on should do the trick
<Ng> didrocks: I think that's seahorse-daemon, seahorse-agent is from Xsession.d
<Ng> I'll log out in a bit and check :)
<huats> morning !
<pitti> bonjour huats!
<pitti> seb128: new i386 iso ETA < 1 hour, FYI
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks, let's get lunch now then
<seb128> pitti, do you know if there is any driver difference between unr and standard ubuntu?
<pitti> seb128: shouldn't be; it's the same kernel, unless you are using the lpia one?
<seb128> no I'm not
<seb128> the wireless on my mini 10 is working only on unr though for some reason
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, it seems that users keep thinking that the sporadic placement of icons in the places and system menu is a bug
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, that and the 2 slots notify-osd logic
<seb128> I think those are 2 design errors
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've not really followed the discussion about the notify-osd logic
<seb128> but seems the design team seems to break at least one thing by cycle before considering changing back next cycle under user reaction
<chrisccoulson> i agree with the concept of no icons, but the places menu does look broken at the moment, and users think so too :(
<chrisccoulson> it would look better with no icons at all
<seb128> users keep filling bugs about bubbles not being in the corner
<seb128> the bug is quite popular
<seb128> they did set up a ppa with a notify-osd with 1 slot too
<seb128> which is quite popular too
<chrisccoulson> i quite like the new notify-osd design :)
<seb128> the 2 slots?
<seb128> I hate it
<chrisccoulson> really?
<seb128> bubbles keep going over my firefox tabs
<chrisccoulson> i don't have to lift my head up as far to read notifications ;)
<chrisccoulson> oh, ok. i didn't notice that, but then i never have windows maximized
<chrisccoulson> that's probably why it hasn't annoyed me yet ;)
<seb128> I've most of the things I use take one workspace
<seb128> email client on one workspace
<seb128> IRC client on one another
<seb128> web browser on one another
<Ng> seb128++, for workspace layout sanity, and correctness about the silly bubble position ;)
<chrisccoulson1> i tend to use e-mail on one workspace, but everything else on another
<chrisccoulson1> i should make better use of my screen real-estate really ;)
<seb128> admittedly bubble are transparent on mouse overt but when you switch tabs using keyboard it still goes in the way
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, that would be annoying
<chrisccoulson1> i see everyones point now ;)
<chrisccoulson1> i definately hate the places menu though!
<seb128> also most users don't use synchronous notifications often
<seb128> so they don't why bubbles are shifted
<seb128> same here
<seb128> especially that the 2 other menus have icons
<seb128> so it really looks weird and buggy
<Ng> seb128: non-laptop people could conceivably never use sync notifications
<Ng> if you don't have volume keys or brightness keys, your bubbles always look wrong ;)
<seb128> Ng, right, many keyboard have volume keys though
<Ng> sure
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - yeah, i agree. everyone i've shown it to seems to feel the same too.
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, any idea about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599209 btw?
<mvo> those are probably not "target users" - that is the argument I usually when when trying to argue issues like that
<ubottu> Gnome bug 599209 in mouse "Can't check "locate pointer" checkbox" [Normal,Needinfo]
<seb128> mvo, +get?
<mvo> seb128: yes
 * mvo was sure he typed thet get
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - i've not noticed that one yet. i can take a look at it though
<mvo> the cat ate it!
<seb128> mvo, what users are not the target? the ones not cleaver enough to not understand the 2 slot logic? ;-)
<seb128> clever
<mvo> exactly
<seb128> I just find it looks weird
<seb128> and keep going over my tabs, I liked it better when it went over the search entry
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - i've assigned the LP bug to me. i'll take a look when i next get the chance
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, upstream suggested it might be due to an ubuntu change
<seb128> but g-s-d upstream is a bit too inclined to blame bugs on  ubuntu changes sometime
<chrisccoulson1> it seems that every upstream is like that recently ;)
<seb128> we might be doing too many change
<seb128> oh, I just download a fedora 12 beta iso
<seb128> let me try in kvm if it has the issue
<seb128> downloaded rather
 * seb128 boots kvm
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, we definately carry too many patches on some packages
<seb128> urg, their boot screen is really weir
<seb128> weird
<chrisccoulson1> i just get the plymouth fallback with fedora
<seb128> they have a white, light blue, blue bar
<chrisccoulson1> that's what i see
<seb128> and the color move
<seb128> it's not nice looking
<mvo> the dark?
<mvo> its also difficult to read - gray on black in a small font...
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - you need real graphics hardware for plymouth to work properly
<chrisccoulson1> i don't even think it would work properly with my NVIDIA card :(
<seb128> hum, login doesn't work
<seb128> and their language selection is suboptimal too
<seb128> brb
<seb128> ok, automatic login keeps spinning but doesn't log in
<seb128> and you have to select the language and keyboard on the gdm screen and guess the layout variant to use etc
<seb128> I like the ubuntu way better ;-)
<seb128> any lunch time
<seb128> bbl
<chrisccoulson1> i've not tried it for a little while
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - the locate pointer issue is an upstream problem. g-s-d will immediately turn the option off again if it fails to spawn gsd-locate-pointer, and this fails because the path is hard-coded as /usr/libexec/gsd-locate-pointer in gsd-mouse-manager.c
<chrisccoulson1> (at least that is the case with the 2.28.0 source i have here at work)
<chrisccoulson1> anyway lunch time for me too
<chrisccoulson1> bbl
<seb128> lool, there?
<seb128> lool, do you know why unr and stock ubuntu would behave different on wireless?
<seb128> using a dell mini 10 config
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - did you see my earlier comment about the locate_pointer issue before i went for lunch?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes, good catch thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I reassigned the upstream bug
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i still can't do that
<Laney> chrisccoulson: how goes pidgin?
<Laney> pain in the bum isn't it? :)
<chrisccoulson> Laney - i'll carry on working on it this evening, but it currently connects successfully to Yahoo and then crashes ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you ask for bug triage rights?
<kklimonda> bad yahoo ;)
<seb128> pedro_, ^ what is required for chrisccoulson to be able to reassign bugs on gnome.bugzilla.org?
<seb128> pedro_, he's doing good work for a while so it should get those ;-)
<lool> seb128: No I do not know; they are supposed to be really close in terms of seeds
<lool> seb128: If you know which specific package should be present, I can check
<seb128> lool, ok, thanks anyway
<seb128> lool, no, but I will have a look
<lool> The only differences between ubuntu.karmic and unr.karmic live and ship-live seeds are purely langpacks
<lool> (Just checked again)
<seb128> lool, I didn't try karmic unr yet
<lool> Ok
<seb128> lool, it's working out of the box on jaunty unr
<seb128> but not on jaunty or karmic ubuntu
<lool> seb128: jaunty's UNR had weird seeds though
<lool> seb128: But it might be that we regressed UNR by syncing things with ubuntu as a reference
<pedro_> seb128, I'm already asking for the permissions there
<pedro_> chrisccoulson, what's your account on gnome bugzilla?
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<lool> seb128: Would be interesting to know which package it is by booting jaunty unr
<seb128> pitti, you have bugzilla bug triaging rights?
<lool> seb128: Is this on dell mini?
<seb128> lool, mini 10
<chrisccoulson> pedro_ - my account is chrisccoulson@googlemail.com
<pedro_> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> lool, mini 10v rather
<chrisccoulson> pedro_ - thank you too:)
<seb128> lool, it was shipped with hardy which worked out of the box and jaunty unr too
<lool> seb128: I heard broadcom-wireless needs to be manually installed
<lool> seb128: Apparently, it's a complex issue with jockey and APT repos
<seb128> lool, hum ok, still it's working on jaunty unr so it should be doable ;-)
<lool> seb128: I understand that we would like jockey to try to install it from the ship-live seed (packages in the pool on the images) only, but jockey would have to use lower level calls to APT to achieve this
<pedro_> chrisccoulson, you're all set!
<seb128> pedro_, good work ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pedro_ - thanks!
<pedro_> seb128, chrisccoulson my pleasure ;-)
 * pedro_ goes back to iso testing
<lool> seb128: Eh but I cant check how it worked in jaunty   :)
<lool> seb128: I looked it up and couldn't find the broadcom thing in the manifest
<seb128> lool, let me try, I still have the unr iso there and an usb key
<lool> seb128: Thanks; if it's for your wifi, then we need to check which package ships the driver
<lool> seb128: Here, "file /sys/class/net/wlan0/device/driver/module" says /sys/class/net/wlan0/device/driver/module: symbolic link to `../../../../module/iwlagn'
<lool> and dpkg -S iwlagn.ko shows where it's from
<seb128> lool, ok, key being written I will tell you that in a few minutes
<pitti> seb128: how do I tell?
<pitti> seb128: I have "status bug reporter" and can assign/close/etc.
<seb128> pitti, can you reopen bugs there?
<pitti> seb128: yes, I think I can
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so you just lack git commit
<pitti> I did several times AFAIR
<pitti> seb128: btw, new i386 desktops up
<seb128> ok
<seb128> lool, is the jaunty unr manifest online somewhere?
<didrocks> jcastro: thanks ;)
<seb128> didrocks, what did he do this time? ;-)
<lool> seb128: Yes
<didrocks> seb128: it was related to UDS room twinning :-)
<lool> seb128: http://releases.ubuntu.com/jaunty/
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<rickspencer3> I just had lunch with a couple of calabora guys
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - what do you think about bug 462253? i'm not too sure it's a gvfs issue. i've seen Nautilus fail to show folder contents before when stat() fails on one of the files, and that seems to be what is happening there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462253 in gvfs "Nautilus not showing VIDEO_TS files" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462253
<chrisccoulson> ?????????? ? ?          ?                 ?                ? VIDEO_TS.BUP
<chrisccoulson> i suppose that stat() shouldn't fail in the first place though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure to understand the issue yet
<seb128> did the submitter reply to my comment?
 * seb128 opens the bug now
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - he just added a comment there
<seb128> right
<seb128> ls also has a permission denied issue
<seb128> why do you think it's not a gvfs issue?
<seb128> gvfs-ls has the same bug
<seb128> gvfs-ls has the same bug
<seb128> ups
<seb128> see previous comment
<seb128> see previous comment
 * seb128 kicks touchpad
<chrisccoulson> he's only posted the output of "ls -l" in the mount directory so far
<seb128> no
<chrisccoulson> oh yeah, i missed the earlier comment ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, see 2 comments before the current one
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if gvfs-ls has the same I guess it's gvfs or gio at fault there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I could be wrong, I need to look at the code
<chrisccoulson> the permission denied error is just a consequence of this: "?????????? ? ?          ?                 ?                ? VIDEO_TS.BUP", and that is normally because stat() fails on that file (so there is no information about the file)
<chrisccoulson> that's normally a lower level issue i think
<seb128> it's a bit weird
<seb128> right
<seb128> corruption?
<chrisccoulson> quite possibly
<seb128> I'm not sure how a stat can be failing there...
<chrisccoulson> perhaps he could run "ls -l" through strace?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you ask for details on the bug if you know what to ask there?
<chrisccoulson> just to see if it is that which fails
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<chrisccoulson> can do:)
<seb128> cool!
<seb128> tedg, hey
<tedg> Good morning seb128
<seb128> tedg, thanks for looking at the crasher, sorry I was not clear when I suggested it was due to the indicator, I meant the dynamic menu changes for fusa detection indeed
<seb128> I don't think it's important for a sru but would be nice to fix in lucid!
<tedg> seb128: I can't come up with a simple fix.  It's probably the one of the menu items is getting deallocated before being show.  No clue how that could happen.
<seb128> can you work on the change you suggested for lucid?
<tedg> seb128: Yup.
<seb128> thanks
<dobey> seb128, pitti, james_w: oh i almost forgot... care to give me some endorsement on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodneyDawes/DeveloperApplication ? :)
<hggdh> seb128: bug 359658 is ready for SRU to Jaunty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359658 in evolution-indicator "evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in strcmp()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359658
<seb128> lool, do you know if there is a way to see what driver is being used for eth<n>?
<lool> seb128: 14:24 < lool> seb128: Thanks; if it's for your wifi, then we need to check  which package ships the driver
<lool> 14:24 < lool> seb128: Here, "file /sys/class/net/wlan0/device/driver/module"  says /sys/class/net/wlan0/device/driver/module: symbolic link to  `../../../../module/iwlagn'
<lool> seb128: replace wlan0 with eth0 and look at the end of the output
<pitti> dobey: will do; what do you apply for? upload rights for the ubuntuone-* packages?
<dobey> pitti: universe-contributor, and then will apply for ~ubuntu-desktop after I am accepted for universe-contributor, as you suggested
<seb128> lool, it's "wl"
<seb128> works on jaunty unr, not on karmic unr
<pitti> dobey: I didn't sponsor too many packages from you yet, so I can't vouch for general motu/~u-desktop yet (not sure how many other packages you touched); you could also start with getting single package upload rights (which requires much less packaging experience)
<pitti> dobey: the sum of my, james_w, seb128's and other sponsors experience might be enough, of course; not sure how many other folks sponsor your uploads
<dobey> was mostly seb128 and james_w
<pitti> dobey: so, I'll add my blurb there soon
<dobey> and i think scottk sponsored a backport request
<dobey> pitti: thanks
<seb128> dobey, I can't really vouch for you either, I've not sponsored complicated changes from you
<seb128> those I did upload were mainly new version updates
<seb128> not new packages or binary splits or transitions
<james_w> agreed, but I'm happy to speak about the value of your contributions, which is what universe-contributor is about
<pitti> ^ *nod*
<seb128> +1
<pitti> package uploader is also fine from my POV
<seb128> asac, around today?
<dobey> i don't know, i'm just going on what you guys suggested :)
<asac> seb128: yes ... just around the corner ;)
<seb128> asac, do you know if bcm4315 cards are supposed to work out of the box in ubuntu?
<seb128> asac, my mini 10v wireless works only in jaunty unr
<seb128> karmic unr or jaunty or karmic ubuntu doesn't see eth1
<asac> seb128: well. usually yes, but its a proprietary driver and as such is flaky
<asac> seb128: do you have "wl" driver loaded?
<seb128> on jaunty unr yes
<asac> i think that driver moved somewhere else ...
<superm1> use jockey to enable it on karmic
<asac> afaik its supposed to get detected by jockey
<seb128> it's not listed in jockey
<superm1> make sure your apt cache is up to date first
<asac> but a few weeks ago there was an issue, but i didnt follow what came out of it after i connected the user with pitti
<superm1> and then it should be offered in jockey
<seb128> apt-cache search doesn't list bcmwl-kernel-source
<seb128> how do I update my cache without internet?
<superm1> you don't.  Keybuk_ was talking about this last week in #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> which means karmic is useless on my mini 10v, great
<asac> hmm. odd. i thought that we put that in restricted and as that the driver pieces are on CD
<asac> isnt that the case?
<dobey> seb128: boot the jaunty kernel under karmic?
<superm1> the driver is on the CD, so you can install it from the CD still
<asac> superm1: why doesnt jockey do that?`
<asac> isnt that the idea?
<asac> or just a bug that is known?
<pitti> asac: no, we can't fit the entire tool chain on CDs
<pitti> seb128: connect it to ethernet, apt-get update, and use jockey
<superm1> pitti, actually yes everything needed to install bcmwl is on the CD http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/karmic-desktop-i386.list
<asac> oh
<asac> right
<pitti> superm1: oh, I see; right, we discussed that a while ago
<Keybuk_> everything needed is on the CD
<pitti> the CD isn't added as a repository
<Keybuk_> *but* you have to do it by hand using dpkg
<superm1> and it's properly offered when you boot in live mode.  the problem is the cd not being a valid repository post install
<superm1> yes^
<Keybuk_> pitti: and even if it was, the on-the-net repos fail to update, so apt refuses to work anyway
<seb128> do we have an open bug about that?
<pitti> I'm sure we have plenty
<seb128> I'm not sure to get the issue
<seb128> why could it work in jaunty unr but not in ubuntu?
<Keybuk_> no idea
<pitti> but it's not really trivial to solve
<Keybuk_> jaunty unr was probably "special"
<pitti> seb128: because in jaunty we still had l-r-m
<superm1> it was shipped in linux-restricted-modules in jaunty
<pitti> whic shipped wl
<pitti> but l-r-m is gone
<superm1> so everyone "had it" by default then
<seb128> why did we drop it? that seems useful to have there
<Keybuk> because it was evil
<pitti> kernel team decided to drop l-r-m entirely, not just wl
<Keybuk> it's been replaced by dkms
<seb128> it has been replacing by something which doesn't work ;-)
<pitti> seb128: do you see the b43 driver in jockey? (for downloading the firmware)
<pitti> seb128: it does work
<seb128> no, jockey is empty
<superm1> b43 doesn't work with 4315 anyway
<pitti> seb128: it's not the fault of dkms, it's a matter of having the package available/installed or not
<pitti> superm1: ok, then jockey wouldn't show it
<Keybuk> seb128: you mean like pidgin was replaced by empathy?
<davmor2> sta is working here now both in live and installed
<pitti> seb128: if only we would know someone at dell who could pester the broadcom guys to do proper drivers :)
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<seb128> still not fun that jaunty was working on the mini 10v and karmic is not
<pitti> intel wifi FTW
<superm1> pitti, are you going to move jockey to apt daemon during lucid?  that should likely allow providing feedback more easily, and possibly enabling the CD repository on demand
<pitti> superm1: trunk uses packagekit
<Keybuk> pitti: if only we knew someone at dell who we could pester to stop building hardware which relies on non-free drivers
<pitti> superm1: but it's not really an issue of aptdaemon vs. python-apt
<superm1> haha
<seb128> Keybuk, let's not troll empathy vs pidgin, empathy is supposed to do the same work ;-)
<pitti> superm1: we could jump through some hoops to have jockey temporarily use the CD repository, install from that, drop it again, and ignore the http sources
<pitti> and build a lot of new UI around it to cope
<superm1> pitti, can you set up a session at UDS to try to discuss solutions to this type of problem then in case there are some better ideas?
<Keybuk> seb128: so is dkms
<lool> seb128: dpkg -S wl.ko?
<seb128> superm1, how do I install bcmwl?
<seb128> lool, it's in the volatile directory and not shipped by any deb according to dpkg
<seb128> lool, but it was in l-r-m apparently
<superm1> seb128, on karmic, just add the cdrom/usb stick in software-properties-gtk and you should be able to use apt-get to do it
<seb128> superm1, thanks
<Keybuk> if that fails
<Keybuk> dpkg -i /media/blah-blah/pool/*/*/*.deb ;-)
<seb128> it seems suboptimal to have the deb there and not installed
<seb128> can't we just auto install those?
<pitti> well, we don't want to install the nvidia/fglrx/wl drivers everywhere
<pitti> superm1: I suppose you'll install it by default on the pre-installed boxes you sell?
<lool> seb128: It seems that lrm was replaced by DKMS based individual debs so you probably hit this jockey/APT issue due to lrm being replaced by individual packages
<lool> seb128: Sorry   :-/
<lool> seb128: We need to fix this jockey/apt interaction
<seb128> lool, yes, what we were just discussing
<seb128> I don't get why jockey doesn't list it after install though
<seb128> the list is empty
<seb128> do you know if there is a bug about that?
<james_w> pitti: apport gets turned off at release? In what way is it turned off?
<lool> seb128: Dunno
<lool> seb128: Scott seems to know about these gotchas with mini 10v
<pitti> james_w: it did; /etc/default/apport says enabled=0 now
<james_w> pitti: and what effect does that have?
<james_w> I'm wondering if that will have effectively turned off kerneloops as well
<pitti> james_w: segfaults and python crashes don't cause .crash files to be written any more
<pitti> james_w: I'm not sure actually
<pitti> james_w: but do we even install that by default? I don't have it here, and it's a fresh install from yesterday evening
<Keybuk> seb128: no, because that would be AGAINST THE LAW
<james_w> pitti: we should
<james_w> kerneloops-daemon at least
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=daemon
<pitti> james_w: oops, I do have that, yes
<james_w> which causes .crash files to be written
<james_w> should we have disabled that as well?
<pitti> kernoops  1503  0.0  0.0  20064   264 ?        Ss   Oct27   0:02 /usr/sbin/kerneloops
<pitti> meh
<lool> MÃ©?
<pitti> james_w: well, not sure about the kerneloops.org submission, but I think we should disable that, too
<seb128> Keybuk, I should talk to those who recommended the mini 10v as a netbook working out of the box on ubuntu ;-)
<james_w> pitti: ok, I'll prepare an SRU to disable kerneloops from starting?
<pitti> james_w: it might provoke some "ubuntu talks home" concern, so that might be better indeed
<pitti> james_w: it doesn't seem to have a default file unfortunately
<james_w> hmm, yeah
<james_w> it only talks home if they accept
<superm1> pitti, for karmic i've actually got a method that runs jockey post install to evaluate what's necessary
<superm1> pitti, but basically if it's determined that something can use the driver, it will get loaded
<superm1> so maybe the right solution is to roll this into a ubiquity plugin for lucid?
<lool> What's starting up language-selector on login?
<mvo> language-selector is started?
<mvo> not just a notification about that?
<pitti> james_w: ah, right; so the "talk home" is not a big deal, it's just having it in the first place then?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> just the same issues we don't run apport in stable releases I guess
<james_w> and the fact that it is still a bit sucky and so will give you lots of duplicate reports and things
<seb128> pitti, is jockey hanging for 1 minute after clicking active normal?
<seb128> it did open a "download and install" dialog now but the bar doesn't move
<pitti> not really, it should give you a progress dialog
<pitti> but apt is very poor with giving progress
<seb128> it's all pretty slow for something which is on a local usb stick
<pitti> so if building/installing takes a while, it will appear stuck
<seb128> it's like 2 minutes now
<seb128> oh, it builds, ok
<seb128> ssd drive = no noise
<pitti> hm, I tested the wl stuff some days ago, and it hung for 10 seconds or so
<seb128> so it seems to do nothing
<pitti> but not more
<seb128> it's a good 3 minutes now
<seb128> I did enable the b43 option
<mvo> pitti: what exactly is the problem with apt? is it the dpkg database reading that takes so long?
<pitti> mvo: no, progress information through package install; it's like 0 - 40% - 100%
<pitti> seb128: ah, it's not STA?
<seb128> well it's listing both
<pitti> seb128: I thought b43 wouldn't even be displayed?
<seb128> I decided to active the first one first to try
<mvo> yeah, for a single package that is correct, thats the best we get from dpkg
<pitti> seb128: for b43 it downloads and installs b43-fwcutter, and that then downloads the firmware
<seb128> over 5 minutes now
<mvo> but a single package should usually much faster than 1-2 minutes?
<superm1> b43 loads on 4315, but will just display something in dmesg about how it can't do anything
<seb128> I'm wondering if it's still working
<pitti> seb128: do you have a running apt/dpkg process?
<pitti> and a b43-fwcutter one?
<seb128> pitti, .xsessions-error has a raise BackendCrashError
<seb128> let me look
<seb128> pitti, no
<pitti> hm, then it crashed
<pitti> seb128: do you have an exception in /var/log/jockey.log ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> DEBUG: Installing package: b43-fwcutter
<seb128> and nothing after that one
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/413624
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413624 in jockey "jockey-gtk crashed with BackendCrashError in convert_dbus_exceptions()" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30315756/Traceback.txt
<seb128> I get the same stacktrace in .xsession-errors
<pitti> seb128: hm, unfortunately that's an useless stack trace
<seb128> ok
<seb128> do you need anything before I close jockey and try to install sta?
 * pitti comments on the bug
<pitti> seb128: no, the frontend is pretty independent, you can close it
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> added debug instructions
<seb128> pitti, the backend side is flooding very quickly with "result coult not be parsed"
<pitti> oh, I wonder where that comes from
<seb128> it's looping on that and never stops
<seb128> hum, another case where empathy fails to connect to msn but pidgin works correctly
<chrisccoulson> heh, i've just had an old colleague e-mail me, and commenting that karmic is looking nice:)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good ;-)
<seb128> pitti, want me to try something else before I wipe this install?
<seb128> pitti, I get the bug every time but I'm going to put unr
<pitti> seb128: do you see anything helpful in the log which would show what prints those "result could not be parsed" messages?
<seb128> no
<seb128> the line before is Installing...
<pitti> seb128: go ahead; with the same hardware and network the bug should occur under UNR, too
<seb128> then it loops on that one
<seb128> I've no clue about jockey and what it tries to parse though
<Laney> omg
<Laney> can I disable U1 notifications?
<seb128> pitti, the "result could not be parsed" is a string in apt_pkg.so
<seb128> pitti, the "result could not be parsed" is a string in apt_pkg.so, not sure it's coming from there though...
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you think bug 457123 is SRU-able?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457123 in transmission "Transmission doesn't prevent suspend when torrent is active" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457123
<pitti> it uses python-apt
<pitti> seb128: ^
<seb128> pitti, note that this box has no internet so has not been able to do an apt-get update
<pitti> ah
<seb128> ie the apt indexes might not be in a right state
<pitti> seb128: you will need internet to download the firmware
<seb128> I just added the usb key as a cdrom to use jockey
<seb128> hum
<seb128> it's a chicken egg issue ;-)
<seb128> I need internet to download the firwmware to get internet
<seb128> ok, you win, I'm using wired internet to get that one
<pitti> ethernet for the win :)
<pitti> and bad drivers FTL
<mvo> seb128: hm, that message seems to come from a media change events, I suspect that jockey does not implement media change?
<pitti> mvo: it doesn't
<pitti> mvo: it's a noninteractive d-bus backend
<mvo> ok, that explains it (also the message is really not helpful
<mvo> so it seems the deb is on the cd but that prevents it from becoming installed
<mvo> lucid material
<seb128> pitti, mvo: confirmed it works after disabling the cdrom source
<mvo> hm, thinking about it, if it could just return False to media change events it should fallback to http
<seb128> cdrom being wrong wording in the apt source config dialog since that's an usb key
<seb128> software-source I mean
 * mvo will add code to python-apt that assumes that
<seb128> great the box crashed after the driver install
<seb128> mvo, pitti: you guys want a bug about the apt-cdrom thingy?
<pitti> seb128: please
<mvo> seb128: if you can still reproduce it, can I send you a test patch?
<seb128> pitti, where? python-apt? jockey
<pitti> seb128: both probably
<pitti> (two tasks)
<seb128> mvo, it easy to trigger yes
<seb128> install karmic on a mini 10v
<seb128> enable the usb key as cdrom source
<seb128> and try to enable the wireless network in jockey
<seb128> ie I can test it for you
<mvo> seb128: could you please try this patch?
<mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/303708/
<mvo> seb128: just to see if it helps, the real fix needs to go into python-apt
<seb128> mvo, trying
<seb128> mvo, pitti: bug #462771
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462771 in python-apt "installing drivers using an apt cdrom source doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462771
<pitti> seb128: merci
<pitti> mvo: hm, does p-apt magically callback the invoker of a function?
<pitti> mvo: your patch merely adds a new method to the OSLib class, but doesn't use it anywhere?
<mvo> pitti: its a callback that the progress code calls
<mvo> pitti: the bug is in python-apts default implementaiton, but this was the quiest way for a test-run
<seb128> mvo, sorry it's going to take another 5 minutes, the box crashed again
<seb128> it doesn't like those drivers installs
<seb128> pitti, is there a cache dir in jockey?
<seb128> it seems to find the driver without internet since I downloaded it
<seb128> cleaning the apt cache is not enough
<pitti> seb128: /var/cache/jockey/ caches which drivers it already presented to you through notifications, but not much else
<seb128> pitti, or, no downloaded firmware?
<seb128> or driver
<seb128> or whatever it got online
<pitti> seb128: firmware> /lib/firmware/b43
<pitti> and b43-fwcutter / bcmwl-kernel-source packages
<pitti> those all belogn to the driver packages, though
<pitti> seb128: if you delete /lib/firmware/b43, then it should appear disabled again
<seb128> it's disabled
<seb128> but when I enable it again it seems to manage to do that without having to download
<seb128> ok, will be faster to just redo a test install
<seb128> mvo, I will ping you back about the change after dinner
<seb128> will make me test the current i386 iso too
<mvo> seb128: have you removed /var/cache/apt/archives/* ?
<seb128> mvo, I did sudo apt-get clean
<seb128> which should be equivalent no?
<mvo> hm, that should be sufficient
<pitti> seb128: are you trying b43 or wl?
<seb128> pitti, both
<seb128> anyway new install running
<seb128> it's an usb2 key and a ssd disk
<seb128> it's going to be quick
<pitti> seb128: the latter is bcmwl-kernel-source (purge), the former is /lib/firmware/b43/ and b43-fwcutter
<mvo> seb128: ok, I will have to leave sonish for today, but if you could let me know I will prepare a sru for python-apt with a more sane default
<seb128> mvo, ok, no hurry anyway, I will let you know tomorrow morning
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> pitti, I did dpkg -r bcmwl-kernel-source
<seb128> maybe I should have purged rather
<seb128> anyway, reinstalling now
<pitti> seb128: ah, no, you need to remove it from the apt cache, too
<pitti> seb128: /var/cache/apt/archives/bcmwl-kernel-source*.deb
<seb128> did that too
<seb128> sudo apt-get clean
<pitti> or apt-get clean
<pitti> then it needs to redownload the .deb
<tgpraveen> what does SRU mean?
<tgpraveen> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<tgpraveen> forund it!
<tgpraveen> seb128: will https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/enchant/+bug/446230 be getting an SRU? should I file for that separately?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446230 in enchant "enchant custom words are not being used" [Low,Fix committed]
<seb128> tgpraveen, no and no
<tgpraveen> ok
<seb128> mvo, the change doesn't seem to make a difference
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - i'm just trying to investigate why my screensaver doesn't come on sometimes, and i've just noticed that if an application registers an inhibitor with gnome-session, but then crashes before releasing it, the inhibitor object remains (preventing the screensaver activating automatically again for the remainder of the session)
<chrisccoulson> this could be more robust couldn't it?
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i see it's meant to remove the inhibitors already, but that doesn't seem to be working :-/
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: hrm, that's bad, indeed
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm just trying to work out whats going on
<tjaalton> should karmic have g-v-m installed?
<chrisccoulson> tjaalton - no it shouldn't
<chrisccoulson> g-v-m should disappear from the archive
<tjaalton> chrisccoulson: nice
<tjaalton> a bit late to fix now, but maybe it should be cleaned from the system on dist-upgrade
<chrisccoulson> the only release with it installed by default currently is hardy. so it should probably be cleaned on hardy -> lucid upgrades
<tjaalton> hmmh, too bad it has been on my system for way too long then ;)
<tjaalton> I was wondering why I always got a gvm popup asking what to do with media containing pictures
<tjaalton> the settings didn't persist
<tjaalton> so it's just that gvm was running
<tjaalton> I wonder what else is running that shouldn't :)
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - this is wierd. i've just ran gnome-session through GDB, and set a break on inhibitor_has_bus_name. when i kill totem, i see this function called for every inhibitor, but when i inspect inhibitor->priv->bus_name, every inhibitor has the same bus name (and it's wrong)
<chrisccoulson> which is why they don't get removed
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> totem still proxies requests through gnome-screensaver, and the bus name is the bus name of gnome-screensaver
<chrisccoulson> that's why it doesn't work
<chrisccoulson> gggargh
<chrisccoulson> totem needs to use the new interface :(
<tjaalton> nautilus Breaks: gnome-volume-manager (<< 2.24), but the version in the archive is later, so no wonder it's not cleaned away
<tjaalton> gvm that is
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure the Breaks is there for cleaning on upgrade. i don't know if breaks is appropriate for that really
<tjaalton> well, it provides the same functionality
<tjaalton> resulting in bad user experience
<tjaalton> maybe conflicts then
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it does. i was hoping to get it removed from the arhive this cycle, but ended up running out of time
<chrisccoulson> **yeah, it does provide a bad use experience
<tjaalton> maybe the conflict could be added as an update?
<seb128> re
<chrisccoulson> hello seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, what totem issue do you investigate?
<seb128> tjaalton, what is the issue?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - session inhibiting ;)
<seb128> what sort of issue does it lead to?
<tjaalton> seb128: g-v-m should be cleaned on upgrade
<chrisccoulson> inhibitors are leaked if totem crashes, or exits without removing them first. which means that the screensaver doesn't automatically lock the screen for the rest of the session once this has happened
<tjaalton> seb128: so nautilus should conflict with it
<seb128> tjaalton, the change was before hardy not likely to be a real issue now
<tjaalton> unless you've been dist-upgrading from a release to another, like me
<seb128> tjaalton, especially that update-manager will clean it on upgrade
<seb128> tjaalton, you didn't use update-manager?
<tjaalton> hasn't done it here
<tjaalton> I've used it, but always upgraded to alpha2/3 or so
<seb128> DistUpgrade/demoted.cfg.hardy:gnome-volume-manager
<seb128> it might have been added later in the cycle than that
<tjaalton> ok, good
<seb128> we don't do dist-upgrade tweaks to earlier usually
<seb128> to -> so
<seb128> or too early
<seb128> anyway it should not be an issue for many users
<seb128> it was 1.5 year ago and the dist-upgrade will clean it
<tjaalton> hope so :)=
<tjaalton> maybe the cleanup app and update-manager should share such configs
<seb128> it's not listed in computer-janitor?
<tjaalton> let me install it again and test..
<tjaalton> nope
<seb128> ok, that's probably a bug then
<tjaalton> ok, I'll file it
<mvo> seb128: hey - do you get the same message with the patch as before? or a different one/no message but the same behavior ?
<seb128> mvo, same message
<seb128> but I might have edited the wrong file I'm not sure what is correct with the python modern world
<mvo> seb128: hm, maybe or I did a typo or something - it should be in /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-package should have the symlink
<mvo> seb128: could you add a "print "hello" or something into the mediaChange()
<mvo> just to see if its called at all?
<seb128> ok
<mvo> or open("/tmp/seb","w").write("hello")
<mvo> to be sure its not eaten by some redirection
<seb128> gpm is on crack after install in karmic
<seb128> 11 hours of battery remaining, right
<kenvandine> seb128, i want your batter :)
<kenvandine> battery
<seb128> it's going to be quite expensive but I'm wanting to sell it for a good price ... ;-)
<tgpraveen> !info empathy
<ubottu> empathy (source: empathy): High-level library and user-interface for Telepathy. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.26.1-1ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 280 kB, installed size 1092 kB
<seb128> tgpraveen, ?
<seb128> mvo, seems to not be called
<tgpraveen> seb128: sorry wrong channel
<mvo> seb128: meh, my mistake I think, give me a sec
<mvo> seb128: please try http://paste.ubuntu.com/303822/
<mvo> seb128: no need to unpatch the previous one, should do no harm
<mvo> (but also no good)
<seb128> mvo, that one works
<mvo> seb128: cool, now it fetches from the net?
<seb128> mvo, it tries to fetch from the key which is not there
<seb128> I'm going to try with the key in a few minutes when it's available
<seb128> using it on another box right now
<seb128> ie it displays "failed to fetch cdrom:...."
<seb128> with a file not found error
<seb128> mvo, did I already told you that you rock today? ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> seb128: no, but I'm happy to hear that :)
<mvo> just to confirm, you get a file-not-found and then it gets it from the http source?
<seb128> no, just the not found but I don't have http sources
<seb128> I'm trying to enable the wireless driver to get online
<seb128> so I never apt-get updated it
<mvo> aha, ok
<mvo> thanks for the super-quick test!
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> mvo, it seems to file to fetch the file from the usb key still
<seb128> but at least it doesn't hang
<mvo> yeah, well - in order for that the mediaChange() method needs to get actually implemented
<mvo> and not just return "FAIL" :)
<seb128> ok so it's all good
<mvo> yeah, that was the scope of the fix for today
<seb128> do you want me to try on wired internet too?
<seb128> should cd be used before http in such cases?
<mvo> if its no hassle
<mvo> yes
<mvo> but apt usually adds the CD to the top of the sources.list
<seb128> mvo, ok, works
<seb128> mvo, I used wired ethernet to apt-get update
<seb128> tried without your change it hanged and printed the lines
<seb128> with your change it download over http as expected
<mvo> seb128: thanks
<seb128> mvo, thank you for looking at the issue ;-)
<mvo> seb128: do you think its sru worthy?
<seb128> mvo, no
<seb128> or depends of the number of duplicate bugs on jockey
 * mvo nods
<seb128> I'm not sure how many users enable cdrom sources
<seb128> but I would tend to say not many
<mvo> ok
<bigon> will somebody make a package for empathy 2.28.1.1 ?
 * Laney is annoyed by how many notifications U1 is showing
<Laney> bigon: what's new there?
<seb128> bigon, already done and uploaded a sru candidate
<seb128> as sru candidate
<bigon> seb128: ok great
<seb128> bigon, you can look to open bugs btw to see if somebody work on updates, we need to have bugs to track sru updates
<pitti> seb128: out of interest, how long does an ubiquity run take on your netbook? (usb->ssd)
<seb128> pitti, I didn't measure but less than 10 minutes I think
<seb128> some 6 to 8 minutes
<pitti> wow
<seb128> I got a high speed usb key recently that's nice
<seb128> like copying a cd iso to the key is some 1 minute
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
<seb128> been busy doing iso testing?
<seb128> how is karmic looking in your opinion?
<robert_ancell> seb128, is it out already?
<seb128> no
<seb128> tomorrow
<pitti> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey
<seb128> but current isos should be the karmic set
 * pitti knocks on wood
<robert_ancell> seb128, I've just been running my up-to-date install.  Nothing is broken that I use or have tried to use
<robert_ancell> I'll set up a VM today
<pitti> robert_ancell: do you have hardware VM support?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've assigned some bugs to you, let me know if you already have too much to do though
<robert_ancell> pitti, no, just a standard old laptop
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you want to do the totem 2.28.2 update as a sru too btw?
<robert_ancell> seb128, np
<seb128> robert_ancell, I expect that we will spend the next week mainly looking at karmic feedback and doing some srus
<seb128> then start on merges with debian for lucid and some updates
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure.  I was doing some triaging yesterday.  There are so many vague "my hardware doesn't work" bugs
<seb128> then prepare uds
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, I do read all desktop bugs, takes me like 2 hours a day
<seb128> I want a "I don't care about this issue" button
<seb128> just to put all those noise bugs out of the way
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes - there's a class of bugs that basically can't be fixed or would take so much time to fix they'd be obsolete by the time you found the problem
<seb128> I just go by numbers, we can't spent a day one a weird local issue
 * TheMuso waves.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hi
<seb128> hey TheMuso
<seb128> robert_ancell, karmic looks good from feedback in any case
<seb128> the most frequent complain is youtube videos playing not working in totem I think
<seb128> with gdm lack of options
<seb128> also some inhibitor issues chrisccoulson seems to be looking at now
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh they love to bitch about gdm... there's nothing you can say to quieten the masses
<pitti> bryce__: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/files/images/dutch-pirate.jpg -> this is awesome
<bryce__> pitti, :-)
<robert_ancell> pitti, what makes you think the seahorse-plugin may be related to icons?
<pitti> robert_ancell: the third-last or so stack frame
<pitti> (from the bottom of the file)
<robert_ancell> pitti, ah, haven't seen a trace like this
<pitti> good night everyone
<DGMurdockIII> whats that tool that in ubuntu that run a system test then send the info back to the ubuntu dev
<chrisccoulson> checkbox?
<chrisccoulson> 'night pitti
<DGMurdockIII> used to be somthing else
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-29
<rickspencer3> hi bryce__
<bryce__> heya
<rickspencer3> who else on the desktop team is up atm?
<bryce__> ccheney maybe, although its evening for him now
<bryce__> kenvandine too I think
<bryce__> rickspencer3, whats up?
<rickspencer3> just wondering what folks are up to
<rickspencer3> iso testing?
<bryce__> being flamed by xorg upstream because canonical doesn't have a 10 person X team
<rickspencer3> where?
<bryce__> heh, on the xorg-devel mailing list
<rickspencer3> ah
<bryce__> they're discussing about new plans for scheduling releases
<rickspencer3>  /ignore
<rickspencer3> bryce__, oh cool
<rickspencer3> I should  subscribe
<bryce__> there's an argument between keith and daniels about whether to do 3-month or 6-month release cycles, and daniels asked distros for input
<TheMuso> A lot of key areas in Ubuntu only have 1 canonical person working on them.
<bryce__> I posted an answer; the only reply to that has been some random upstream guy I've not heard of before saying that distros (by which I think he means Ubuntu) are getting a free lunch
<ccheney> bryce__: hi saw my name
<ccheney> rickspencer3: on the iso.qa site?
<rickspencer3> ccheney, you can join #ubuntu-release and see if anyone asks for help there
<rickspencer3> also, you can triage bugs that have been logged regarding the testing, see if there are any serious issues, etc...
<rickspencer3> and also iso.qa testing
<ccheney> rickspencer3: ok
<robert_ancell> bryce__, could you have a quick look at the stack trace in bug 429322 - I think an X IO error is causing the problems.  If so, what is a good debugging technique to confirm that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell good morning
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, welcome to your first ubuntu release!
 * robert_ancell wishes gconf was using something other than orbit already to make debugging easier...
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yay!
<bryce__> robert_ancell, looking
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you may want to join #ubuntu-release in case anyone asks for help
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok
<bryce__> robert_ancell, ok posted
<chrisccoulson> xtrace rocks:)
<robert_ancell> bryce__, thanks
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, can you help robbiew get his desktopcouch working? he's got the  upgrade need to delete that file thing
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, just pointing to the documentation would be fine
<Amaranth> #ubuntu-release-party is going nuts already
<ajmitch> Amaranth: just randomly start banning people
<Amaranth> ajmitch: We got in trouble for that :/
<ajmitch> aw
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, sure
<robbiew> thanx kenvandine
<kenvandine> killall beam.smp desktopcouch-service
<kenvandine> mv ~/.config/desktop-couch/desktop-couchdb.ini{,-old}
<kenvandine> rm ~/cache/desktop-couch/desktop-couchdb.pid
<kenvandine> then do something that should start it again
<kenvandine> like start evolution or something
<Amaranth> thanks to rickspencer3 the release date is now the 30th :P
<rickspencer3> dang it!
<kenvandine> robbiew, let me know if you have questions
<kenvandine> i need to step away for a few
<kenvandine>  but will be back
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, bryce__ the U1 guys may need you to test a little something for them shortly
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok
<rickspencer3> I told him to come ask you if needed anything
<kenvandine> tedg, btw i did track down that critical i was looking for, thx for your tips
<kenvandine> tedg, it just took a LOT of patience :/
<tedg> kenvandine: Heh, I'm glad that you found it.  What was it?
<kenvandine> indicator_manager was initialized before the event_manager was
<tedg> Ah, startup sucks :)
<kenvandine> only happened on startup :)
<kenvandine> yeah... so painful to find :/
<tedg> BTW, why is Gwibber not in the alt+tab list?
<kenvandine> ah... look at the preferences
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> that isn't "hide taskbar entry"
<kenvandine> dunno
<kenvandine> it is in my alt-tab
 * kenvandine thinks it is time for tedg to do some python debugging... after all my time C debugging this week :)
<tedg> Hmm, playing with that fixed it... but not the first time I tried.
<tedg> Anytime you write Python all you do is debug.  That is, until you have 100% code coverage, and then you can't change anything.
<kenvandine> :)
<jcastro> kenvandine: just got another empathy crash
<TheMuso> c
<JanC> <CompactDstrxion> hmm running wubi from this iso. at the top it says 'You are about to install Ubuntu-9.10ubuntu1"
<JanC> (from #ubuntu-release-party)
<mac__v> mpt: could the libgnome change to not show icons be properly mentioned in the release notes? humanity is getting bugs about the panel menu... we've already got 3-4 bugs filed regarding that :(
<lifeless> all dupes?
<mac__v> lifeless: yeah , i'v duped them... but still thought it would be better to mention it in the release notes ;)
<jcastro> robert_ancell: still awake and around?
<robert_ancell> jcastro, yup
<jcastro> robert_ancell: if you could help test the fix for bug 462828 that would really help out
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828
<kenvandine> hey guys
<robert_ancell> jcastro, looking
<jcastro> hi ken
<jcastro> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies
<jcastro> is the PPA with the updated packages
<robert_ancell> jcastro, ok, anything in particular to test?
<jcastro> robert_ancell: going through the steps in the first comment in the bug would help
<robert_ancell> hmm, I don't have a ubuntu one menu item...
<jcastro> robert_ancell: right now all the shipped clients are going to tell the user that there is a version mismatch
<jcastro> so the idea is when they get this working and tested it'll be an immediate SRU
<kenvandine> jcastro, mine is syncing
<kenvandine> downloading a bunch of stuff from you :)
<jcastro> ah, finally!
<kenvandine> now it's uploading some test data
<robert_ancell> jcastro, I'm not getting any syncing occurring
<jcastro> :-/
<robert_ancell> well the tooltip says "updating files..." but clicking on it shows a greyed menu with "your files are up to date"
<robert_ancell> one.ubuntu.com doesn't show any files
<jcastro> ok, let me see what's up
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, tail -f ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
<robert_ancell> 2009-10-29 16:59:27,622 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Main - NOTE - ---- MARK (state: READING_WAITING_WITH_NETWORK_WITH_BOTHQ; queues: metadata: 12; content: 11; hash: 0, fsm-cache: hit=1287 miss=68) ----
<robert_ancell> not doing anything at the moment
<robert_ancell> jcastro, I have to go - anything you want me to look at with U1?
<jcastro> robert_ancell: no I think ken and I can manage for a bit
<jcastro> thanks!
<robert_ancell> jcastro, np
<pitti> Good morning
<al-maisan> Good morning pitti
<kenvandine> morning pitti
<pitti> hey kenvandine; still awake?
<pitti> hey al-maisan, how are you?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> helping the u1 guys
<kenvandine> with this ugly bug, hear about it yet?
<pitti> "this" bug..
 * pitti saw too many in the last days
<kenvandine> u1 client bug
<al-maisan> pitti: not too bad, thanks. How are things on your side?
<pitti> al-maisan: bit tired, but pretty good; looking forward to getting karmic out of the door :)
<al-maisan> pitti: :)
<didrocks> hey pitti, kenvandine, al-maisan :)
<al-maisan> hello didrocks :)
<kenvandine> hey didrocks
<kenvandine> pitti, bug 462828 FYI
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828
<kenvandine> that is what we are working on right now
<kenvandine> so expect an SRU :)
<kenvandine> pitti, also... not sure if this is SRU worthy but look at bug 451568
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451568 in empathy "Empathy don't close with click on notification area icon" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451568
<kenvandine> i proposed a patch that restores the toggling behavior with the empathy status icon, if you are not using the indicator
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ I thought that was deliberate?
<pitti> (not that many people like it, but still..)
<kenvandine> it is... sort of
<kenvandine> it is deliberate for the indicator
<kenvandine> and we share the same code as the status icon
<kenvandine> so this just makes it toggle if you set the preference to not use the indicator
<kenvandine> simple change
<kenvandine> ideally we want to separate the behavior, so the icon can behave differently than the indicator
<kenvandine> but that was out of scope for karmic
<kenvandine> would make seb128 happy though, to be able to use both at the same time :)
<kenvandine> this should make people that aren't interested in the indicator happy
<pitti> kenvandine: at this point of the release I'm fine with it if you think it's important and it has a trivial patch
<kenvandine> it is really trivial
<kenvandine> changes a 1 line patch into a 2 line patch :)
<kenvandine> that branch also has the latest EmpathyChat leak fixes and i fixed a glib critical
<kenvandine> debug logs are clean now :)
<baptistemm> hello
<pitti> hey didrocks, bonjour
 * pitti waves to baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut pitti
<kenvandine> pitti, ok... debdiff for bug 462828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828
<pitti> back in 20
<baptistemm> I'm pleased to now working in a company where I can run linux and specially ubuntu as my OS
<kenvandine> pitti, ok i tested the debdiff, lintian complains about an old line in the changelog but other looks good
<kenvandine> pitti, can you handle getting it uploaded?
<kenvandine> whenever that can be done
 * kenvandine assigned the bug to pitti :)
<kenvandine> i need to get some sleep, the kids are going to wake me up in 2 hours :(
<pitti> kenvandine: yep, will do; sleep well!
<kenvandine> thx
<pitti> kenvandine: (answer later, low urgency): I think we should just include above empathy patch in the first upload; so I'll reject the current one from teh queue, you commit the new one to bzr, and I reupload?
<pitti> I have a doctor appointment now, back in 2 hours
<seb128> hello there
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> how are you?
<mvo> good!
<mvo> but the ppa machines just told me my test package will only get build in 13h
<mvo> that makes me a bit unhappy
<Hobbsee> mvo: that can be fixed, if required
<mvo> Hobbsee: heh :) kdebindings is the one, that would be pretty sweet.
 * Hobbsee looks
<mvo> Hobbsee: its for a good course, verifiying the fix for bug #459471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459471 in kdebindings "[Karmic] update-manager-kde: conffile prompt/error during upgrade cause crash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459471
<seb128> mvo, looking to kde issues now, you traitor!
<mvo> seb128: the kdm login is non-black ;)
<Hobbsee> mvo: that's fine.  I'm just having extreme trouble navigating launchpad.  i'll get there
<seb128> mvo, oh, and trolling now, wait for uds!
<Hobbsee> oh, here we go
<seb128> mvo, you can tweak gconf key to have better gdm too ;-)
<mvo> seb128: :P
<mvo> seb128: if only there was a application to set the background in gdm
<seb128> start the day with a troll [checked]
 * mvo gets himself into serious trouble
 * seb128 goes to the next daily task, email reading
<didrocks> hehe, so easy :)
<seb128> mvo, I don't know what you are talking about
 * mvo was kicked from #ubuntu-desktop (seb128)
<didrocks> (good morning seb128 and mvo o/)
<seb128> mvo, sudo -u gdm gnome-appearance-capplet? ;-)
<Hobbsee> mvo: there we go, they should build in a couple of minutes
<seb128> lut didrocks
<mvo> many thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mvo: you're welcome
 * mvo sends some virtual flowers
<Hobbsee> :)
<mvo> hey didrocks
<seb128> (hate hate spammers)
<didrocks> 984 people connected on forum.ubuntu-fr.org \o/
 * didrocks thinks we will have a new record today ;)
<seb128> didrocks, what is the current record?
<didrocks> approx 1250 :)
<asac> hi
<asac> all going well ;)?
<didrocks> hey asac
<asac> hi didrocks
<seb128> hey asac
<seb128> yes, things same to be on track
<seb128> seems rather
<asac> moin moin seb128
<asac> great
<seb128> is lucid open yet or what? ;-)
<asac> boring day ;) ... lets check #ubuntu-release-party ;)
<didrocks> seb128: I know you are eager to upload 2.29.1 to lucid ;)
<seb128> didrocks, no
<seb128> I'm eager to start on reducing delta with debian ;-)
<seb128> we will probably not start on 2.29 before uds
<didrocks> yeah, merging time :-)
<TheMuso> Not to mention infrastructure changes for accessibility, i.e at-spi over dbus. I want to get that in and working at least as much as possible, as early as possible.
<TheMuso> So I'll be interested in the 2.29 goings on.
<mac_v> seb128: hi... <offtopic question> how do you get the cloak for gimpnet? [gnome-hackers]
<seb128> dunno what a cloak is
<baptistemm> seb128, with a cloack nobody can see you ip
<baptistemm> +your
<seb128> baptistemm, still doesn't tell me what a cloack is
<seb128> I just use xchat-gnome to connect to IRC
<ikonia> seb128: join #freenode and ask
<baptistemm> it is a service provided by IRC servers
<mac_v> seb128: seems you dont use a cloak ;) > your are an ubuntu member , right so you can use the cloak > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Cloaks
<seb128> ikonia, I don't care about it but thanks
<ikonia> seb128: if you don't care - don't ask
<seb128> ikonia, it's mac_v having questions
<ikonia> ok
<seb128> ikonia, I'm busy enough with other things and I've no interest in that
<mac_v> ikonia: actually i asked , but freenode staff didnt know either :(
<ikonia> seb128: ok
<ikonia> mac_v: freenode staff do know what and how to get a cloak
<seb128> mac_v, I don't know and I don't care ;-)
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> ikonia: dont how to get a cloak for gimpnet
<ikonia> that's nothing to do with this channel or this network - ask on gumpnet
<ikonia> gimpnet
<mac_v> ikonia: i cant find the support channel for gimpnet :(...
<ikonia> again - not this channel or this network's issue, check their website
<mac_v> ikonia: yup , i know that ;) ... i was checking if seb128 had any info since he frequents gnome-hackers :)
<ikonia> respect to anyone who's contributing to gnome
<seb128> I do but I don't feel any need to use a cloack so I never asked
<mac_v> seb128: you know ? how do i get it? :)
<seb128> mac_v, I do frequent #gnome-hackers I meant
<seb128> mac_v, I guess you can try #sysadmin on their IRC
<mac_v> seb128: oh... ok..thanks anyway
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> salut seb128
<baptistemm> mac_v, gimpnet don't have any service like cloak or Nickserv
<baptistemm> but if you can convince the sysadmin to setup them, nice :)
<mac_v> baptistemm: oh... thats what i thought  :)   but recently i noticed that the few members where using a sort of cloak and thats got me thinking :D  , must be something from the IP services or something else then :)
<mac_v> baptistemm: also i couldnt find a support channel for gimpnet :(   the admins are hiding somewhere ;p
<seb128> mac_v, they are on #sysadmin as just said before
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<mac_v> seb128: darn it! i was trying sys-admin :/
<seb128> how are you on this karmic day? ;-)
<mac_v> seb128:  thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128. i'm not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<mvo> Ng: I remember you had issues with compiz and the "run terminal" keybinding in the past. is this fully working now in karmic?
<asac> seb128: you have anything in queue for gtk+ SRU?
<seb128> no
<seb128> why?
<asac> i am going to prepare removing the debugging output for bug 401823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401823 in gtk+2.0 "(firefox:24993): Gdk-WARNING **: XID collision, trouble ahead - overeager XID caching" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401823
<asac> i got a user that said that .xsession-errors grow to 3GB in a few minutes
<asac> ;)
<asac> thats worse than what i thought
<Ng> mvo: wow good memory. I haven't used it for some time, but a quick test suggests it doesn't work at all. I can't really spare any time today for anything deeper though
<Ng> sorry
<asac> seb128: ok so if you have anything i shoudl review and take for this gtk upload let me know ;)
<seb128> asac, I will find something, would be a shame to update gtk only to drop a warning
<mvo> Ng: sure, many thanks. I prepare a fix - I can image your are super-busy :)
<asac> seb128: ok. ;)
<asac> i will wait a bit then
<seb128> asac, ok, there is nothing else that I can see we really need now so go for your change
<seb128> I'm curious to know how that user trigger so many warnings though
<asac> seb128: seems to just happen for some cases
<asac> especially when using flash in firefox
<asac> not easy to reproduce such a flush
<asac> of error msgs
<rickspencer3> quit
<rickspencer3> ...
<rickspencer3> tooo quiet
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, asac good morning
<mpt> mac_v, I thought it already was in the release notes
<mpt> (wiki.ubuntu.com is temporarily unavailable? ... first time I've ever seen that)
<davmor2> mpt: they'll be preping for release
<asac> hi rick
<asac> hmm rick<tab>
<seb128> same here
<seb128> asac, will you have a look to the gnome-bluetooth updates to see if that's worth sru-ing?
<seb128> we tend to sru some GNOME bug fixes updates usually
<seb128> ie just sponsored totem's one from robert_ancell
<seb128> be back in a bit I need to go you to get some food for lunch
<mpt> mac_v, <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/HumanReleaseNotesv2#Simpler%20menus%20and%20buttons>
<mac_v> mpt: ah ha... ;) the gnome-menu is not mentioned ... so users think that the humanity theme is incomplete and lacks those icons hence the icon is not displayed :(
 * mac_v hopes that might convince mpt to consider the icons back for all gnome-menu ;p
<mpt> mac_v, why should we special-case gnome-menu?
<mac_v> mpt: the only reason is the all or none rule... either we remove all icon from that menu or keep icons for all... since if *some* are missing it looks like a bug , just like the context menus which only had icons for some items ...
<mpt> mac_v, all or none is not a rule
<mac_v> not a rule per-se but just looks odd!
<mpt> mac_v, and even if it was, none of the items in the System menu have icons
<mac_v> mpt: what about the places menu?
<mac_v> mpt: the system menu is part of the gnome-menu , so it seems broken
<mac_v> mpt: its like removing the icons from only the  help menu while having icons in the file, edit, view
<mpt> mac_v, what about the Places menu?
<mpt> mac_v, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what you mean by "the gnome-menu"
<mac_v> gnome-menu== main menu
<mpt> mac_v, the one that's not used by default?
<mpt> The one that starts with "Accessories" and ends with "System"?
<mac_v> mpt: i was meaning the one used by default , yeah the accessories, places, system menu
<mpt> mac_v, Firefox similarly has icons in its History and Bookmarks menus but not in its other menus. Equal use of icons *across* menus is not a goal.
<mac_v> mpt: the firefox issue is due the recent change ;) ... the bug was filed that the bookmarks were objects
<chrisccoulson> but the menu items with icons in Firefox are grouped together aren't they, and not just scattered about like the Places menu?
<mac_v> mpt: the places menu doesnt have icons for the "connect to server"  , "search files" and "recent documents"... only the 3 dont have icons
<chrisccoulson> the current places menu is absolutely hideous
<mpt> mac_v, yes, I was giving Firefox as an example of doing it right.
<mac_v> mpt: IMO, its not right... just consider a user moving from one menu to the next , when the menu behaves as a single unit [user can click on file and move down the rest without having to click again , or click accessories and change view to system]  , the menu must be treated as the same , now one drop down shows icon while the next doesnt , this is odd .. not a good design... :/
<asac> seb128: yes. i have to rebase the patches we have to see what is left and if we need the SRU
<seb128> asac, ok
<asac> seb128: i am on vac starting tomorrow ... so will try to do that tonight
<seb128> asac, no hurry that can wait
<asac> but last i looked the fixes didnt seem too differetn/important
<asac> we are pretty good set i think
<seb128> asac, how much vac do you take?
<asac> one week
<asac> basically 6 days ;)
<seb128> ok, enjoy the well deserved break there!
<asac> work days
<asac> yeah ... i certainly will - need a battery recharge ;)
<chrisccoulson> does anyone know what happens if you can g_source_remove when there are events pending for that particular source? do the events still get dispatched after removing the source, or are they removed from the main loop?
<seb128> I still have some 11 days to take but I take friday and will do a real end of year break
<asac> chrisccoulson: they get cacnelled
<asac> well ... i am not sure what happens if you remove from a different thread
<asac> but if you remove them in the main thread, they wont get run anymore for sure
<chrisccoulson> asac - thanks. do you know if that behaviour has changed since hardy?
<mpt> mac_v, you're using "the menu" to mean "three separate menus". That's misleading.
<asac> chrisccoulson: shouldnt have changed ... unless it was/is buggy in some way
<chrisccoulson> asac, thanks! my issue must be related to something else:(
<mac_v> mpt: that is because the whole row behaves as a single unit ... either the menu must open only when that menu item is clicked[clicking the file opens only file and clicking history should open only history] or all need to behave/display similarly , whether having icons or not.
<mpt> mac_v, whether a menu item should have an icon depends on the item, not on what menu it's in. If a menu interleaves items that do and don't have icons, that's a sign that either (a) the wrong items have icons or (b) the menu should be rearranged.
<asac> chrisccoulson: whats the problem?
<chrisccoulson> asac - i'm working on a pidgin SRU for hardy, to make it work with Yahoo again. i'm getting a crasher with the changes though, which seemed to be caused by an event being dispatched, after the source was removed from the main loop and some data free'd
<chrisccoulson> i can't tell you much more yet though, as i'm at work ;)
<chrisccoulson> and the patch is on my desktop at home :(
<mpt> mac_v, Nautilus's "File" > "Open With" submenu uses icons for most of its items. Do you think that means all the items in the "File" menu should have icons too?
<mac_v> mpt: need to behave separately as in>  the notification area applets do not show the drop down menu of the applet beside them , so they behave independently
<asac> chrisccoulson: usualyl those crashes happen when the callback target is finalized, but the source not properly removed
<asac> how sure are you that the source is properly removed?
<chrisccoulson> asac - i'm not 100% sure yet. i ran out of time debugging it last night
<mac_v> mpt: what you mention here is sane >  http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-February/msg00000.html   "I think icons should either be used for every item in a section (between the end of a menu and a separator, or between two menu separators), or for none of them, because anything else looks messy."
<chrisccoulson> but i'll carry on with it again later
<mpt> mac_v, yes, but there by "menu" I meant "menu", not "three separate menus".
<mac_v> mpt: they dont behave separate :( .. they act just like a submenu system of the menubar
<asac> ok
<mpt> mac_v, then that brings us back to my question about Nautilus's File menu.
<mac_v> mpt: the file menu needs to arranged properly , where the icon options and the icon-less options
<mac_v> are separated by the separator
<mpt> So maybe "Connect to Server..." and the separator above it should swap places.
<mpt> Separator below it, rather.
<mpt> Or maybe "Network" and the separator above it should swap places.
<mac_v> mpt: might be saner , by still i dont see why the recent documents is not an object ;)
<mpt> mac_v, it would be if it was an actual folder you can open. (IIRC it was a real folder containing shortcuts in classic Mac OS, for example.)
<mac_v> mpt: IMO , the logic that only objects can use the icons is flawed :( ... icons need to be used for items which can be recognized ... for , "search for files" a magnifying glass is a good representative  and can be a quick indication of what the item does
<mac_v> mpt:  while we use icon for accessories and so on ...which are very ambiguous , what does a ruler and scissors , really convey ?  :/  not sure why the search doesnt need an icon
<mac_v> programming = spade :/ , , does it mean anything if the user hasnt seen the icon along with the text !
<mpt> mac_v, "Search for Files..." is a borderline case. It is a standalone application, but people may not recognize (and probably should not need to know) that it is.
<mac_v> mpt: what does it being a standalone application really have to do with it having an icon? i meant it can be recognized easier , not that since it was a standalone app...   but anyways... the objects only have icons is not a good solution  :)  ambiguous objects end up having icons rather than the meaningful icons... which will end up making the icon removal even bad :(   the criterion needs to be rather are these useful indicators [i know its a
<mac_v>  bit ambiguous]
<mac_v> but anyways... ;)
<mpt> mac_v, the trouble there is that developers would have no idea when to stop, and we'd be right back where we were.
<seb128> ie having a nice looking desktop? ;-)
<mpt> haw haw
<seb128> users seems really unhappy with the current system menu lack if icons
<mpt> Users are always unhappy.
<mpt> That's their job.
<mac_v> not really ;p
<fredp> mvo: hi!  packagekit-gnome is proposed for gnome, and we (release team) meet on sunday to discuss new modules, seb128 told me you were the one who'd know best the ubuntu/.deb situation.
<seb128> not true
<seb128> there is lot of cases where some users complain or people don't like change
<seb128> but the system menu change is perceived as a bug by a lot of users
<seb128> including technical people who know about the icon change
<andreasn> it seems like the happy people are always silent
<mac_v> +1
<seb128> andreasn, not really true either, on lot of bugs you have people from both side arguing
<asac> what icon change is that?
<seb128> I've not seen any user argue in favor of this one
<seb128> asac, don't display icons in menus by default
<seb128> and on buttons
<mac_v> asac: the system menu lacking icons while the places and accessories have icon
<asac> oh ... yeah
<asac> firefox still has icons ;)
<seb128> that's like the 2 slot logic from notify-osd
<seb128> dunno what is the design rational but users just don't get it
<asac> for 2 slot? ... i agree. i would rather like to see the normal notifications slide down getting replaced by the synchronous ones
<asac> with a cool animation ;)
<seb128> I've to admit it just weird looking and not obvious why it's done this way and looks buggy
<asac> yes
<asac> i think the "normal" notifiations - which are more frequent - at least should get the top spot
<asac> e.g. flip it
<seb128> especially if you don't use synchronous bubbles
<asac> or do the sliding/anmination i described
<seb128> ie desktop configs where people don't change volume with the keyboard
<asac> yep
<asac> thats what i say
<seb128> +1
<asac> synch are less frequent for sure
<asac> and should get the lower space if we cannot animate and want fixed position
<seb128> seems there is a real popular ppa undoing that change
<seb128> shame that it leads to have lot of users using a non official version
<mac_v> andreasn: mpt: i would agree that some icons are nonsensical , but having the icons for objects alone is bad .. ;)  would a new user even know what the firefox icon is? but wouldnt the same user recognize the arrow icons? the better thing to do is arrange the menu properly
 * mac_v hiles
<seb128> I still hate the system menu not having icons too
<seb128> much easier to spot the reboot action from an icon than parsing labels
 * mac_v rather hides
<seb128> system menu -> session menu
<andreasn> mpt: do you know any good articles/books on personality of applications? (if you get what I mean)
<seb128> or whatever the corner menu is called
<mac_v>  +1 to seb128
<mpt> andreasn, not really. About Face has a discussion of "software posture"; is that what you mean?
<seb128> I think that part of the issue is that designers don't get the user feedback or they always think people will be complaining and don't reconsider their changes
<andreasn> mpt: maybe, I was thinking in what kind of tone a app speaks etc. Just curious about the subject
<andreasn> mpt: I'll check out about face again
<mpt> andreasn, e.g. http://bradt.ca/archives/firefox-error-message-well-this-is-embarrassing/
<andreasn> mpt: yes! exactly, stuff like that!
<mac_v> asac: yeah whats with that ^ ?
<mpt> andreasn, the Windows and Apple interface guidelines both have sections on software tone. IIRC the Windows ones make a point of Vista onwards being a bit friendlier than earlier versions.
<andreasn> ah, I'll check that out.
<mvo> fredp: hello - right now packagekit-gnome does not support debconf questions. this is why we do not ship it by default and use a altnertive mechanism (aptdaemon). however this is now changing, so chances are good that for the next release debconf will be supported
<mvo> fredp: but without it, thats a showstoppper for us, it means that some (debian policy) confirm debs simply can not get installed
<fredp> mvo: seb128 told me aptdaemon may be providing the same dbus interface, is it correct?
<mvo> fredp: aha, I see that you have found the right peope in packagekit already :)
<fredp> mvo: hughsie told me dantti was working on this, right :)
<mvo> fredp: its not the same, the aptdaemon one uses a different approach (a simpler one). I have not looked in detail yet into the way PK wants to do it, I was too busy (and it only happend very recently)
<seb128> mvo, there was no plan to have common dbus methods there to ie install something?
<mvo> seb128: I certainly hope so
<seb128> what desktop applications want to do usually is to install a deb
<seb128> I was suggesting that GNOME should maybe agree on standard dbus apis and let distro decide on the backend
<mvo> the good news is that it has become a technical problem now, in the past it was a policy decision (or precived as one) to not have questions during package install
<mvo> oh, that is what you mean
<seb128> GNOME applications should only need the client side
<mvo> well, that would make sense
<fredp> it would sure be easy to approve pacakgekit-gnome, if we know it will work on ubuntu, talking to aptdaemon
<seb128> what is packagekit-gnome doing exactly?
<fredp> anyway with both this option and the current work on packagekit, things are looking good.
<seb128> what GNOME needs imho is a set of apis apps can use to install something
<seb128> not a package management tool or a backend
<mvo> seb128++
<seb128> those are distro issues rather
<fredp> seb128: I should check what's proposed exactly; mostly I believe it's proposed so that apps can request new pacakges
<fredp> (for example file-roller can now request for the installation of unzip/etc.)
<seb128> I think it would make sense to accept the client side
<seb128> ie common client api to do installs
<seb128> then distro will sort what replies to those calls
<seb128> I would not accept a package management tool in GNOME though
<seb128> especially if it's working correctly on rpm only
<fredp> I'll talk with hughsie to know exactly what is proposed
<seb128> thanks
<fredp> iirc there are many things in packagekit-gnome, replacements for update-notifier, 'add/remove applications', etc.
<fredp> and those things are already handled fine in ubuntu
<seb128> fredp, right and those should not really go to GNOME since they are distribution specific tools
<asac> ... consider to join #ubuntu-release-party so we reach 1000 ;) ... we are at 992
<pitti> asac: Madness!!
<pitti> asac: I see 957
<kenvandine> pitti, sure
<pitti> kenvandine: that was a really short night..
<kenvandine> yeah... i have 3 kids :)
<kenvandine> they are up at 6am no matter what time i go to bed
<kenvandine> so 2 hours will have to do :)
<seb128> asac, 1000 was easy you need an another challenge now
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<rickspencer3> what's the word on the street?
<kenvandine> the u1 bug is fixed
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> sweeeet
 * rickspencer3 is sitting across from silbs, atm :)
<kenvandine> verified it myself :)
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> i also reproduced another bug they found in the process, and verified the fix
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, good job this release
<kenvandine> fixing this also uncovered 2 other bugs
<kenvandine> not nearly as severe
<kenvandine> u1 is happily syncing my life now :)
<kenvandine> 2 physical computers and a VM all in sync :-p
<kenvandine> pitti, pushed lp:~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntu
 * \sh hugs pitti and all others from canonical/ubuntu team 30 desktops already on ubuntu karmic, now I have to deal with 70 jaunty servers still...but this is again a nightshift :)
<kenvandine> \sh, cool!
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am very impressed with how great the ubuntuone team handled that bug
<kenvandine> very quickly identified it and got it under control
<\sh> oh and btw...ubuntu jaunty on hp blade servers == charming much better then windows 2003/2008 + hpiloagent rebooting the thing every 2 days
<kenvandine> and they had the client fixed and tested in under 12 hours from initial report
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, we <3 U1 team :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> they rock!
<didrocks> seb128: 1200 person on http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/ :)
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<didrocks> hi kenvandine ;)
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
<rickspencer3> didrocks, congrats on a great release
<james_w> 'lut didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, waouh ;-)
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<james_w> we <3 didrocks too :-)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: congrats too ;)
 * didrocks hugs james_w 
<rickspencer3> you really rocked karmic
<\sh> is it possible to have telepathy do syncs to xmpp+u1 users, as replacement for xmpp bytestream proxy? or is this just a crazy idea?
<seb128> rickspencer3, congrats on karmic and leading desktop troups to success ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, :)
 * rickspencer3 wipes tear from eye
 * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, how is London? do you have parties every night? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, hardly
<rickspencer3> working very hard, but almost done
<seb128> today at least ?
<pitti> \sh: yay
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> party is starting in kitchen, but I'm in a meeting with sabdfl ;)
<seb128> oh ok, good luck then ;-)
<rickspencer3> hi pitti ... thanks for your efforts last night/this morning
<pitti> my pleasure
<\sh> pitti, would be a nice feature  when you are behind a proxy which doesn't let bytestream proxy through ;)
<pitti> kenvandine: empathy> thanks, will re-upload
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
<\sh> pitti, and it could be a nice idea for viral marketing of u1 ;)
<rickspencer3> bryce__, sabdfl extends kudos to you Amaranth rest of desktop team for Karmic X
<pitti> kenvandine: BTW, fixing changelog (merging into the previous one which just got rejected); and fixing version number (-0ubuntu1, not -1ubuntu1)
<seb128> heh
<seb128> pitti, reject my empathy upload?
<kenvandine> eww
<kenvandine> sorry
<kenvandine> seb128, i updated that leak patch and added a fix for toggling from the status icon
<pitti> seb128: yes, we want to do bug 451568 in the same upload, and kenvandine added some more fixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451568 in empathy "Empathy don't close with click on notification area icon" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451568
<seb128> pitti, ah ok
<kenvandine> the togling only works though if you uncheck use indicators
<pitti> seb128: faster that way
<seb128> kenvandine, pitti: thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, still can't use both :)
<seb128> I usually do a new revision and dch -v the previous one
<kenvandine> that would require a fair bit of work
<kenvandine> but this was a one liner
<seb128> kenvandine, that's good enough
<seb128> I don't think people want to use both
<kenvandine> seb128, i thought you did?
<seb128> I just want to use the notification area icon
<seb128> I don't see the point of the indicator
<seb128> it's slower and make you not notice messages
<kenvandine> seb128, out of curiosity, do you use evolution for mail?
<rickspencer3> *cough*
<seb128> yes
<kenvandine> so i have empathy, evolution, gwibber, and xchat-gnome in the indicator
<seb128> but I do send&receive manually when I want to read emails
<kenvandine> it is the place i keep an eye on for messaging stuff
<kenvandine> it is my go-to place...
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - does xchat-gnome have indicator support?
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, sort of :)
<seb128> and the indicator monitors only inbox anyway
<seb128> and I put everything in imap folders
<seb128> so it's always count 0
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, not packaged anywhere and doesn't work well
<kenvandine> seb128, ah... true
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. i thought so.
<pitti> uscan could not find the needed tarball.
<kenvandine> i wish i could add mailboxes to monitor
<pitti> seb128: ^ where did you get the empathy orig.tar.gz from?
<seb128> pitti, http://download.gnome.org/sources/empathy/2.28/empathy-2.28.1.1.tar.gz
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - are you planning to progress that? (i was thinking about adding indicator support a few days ago, but wasn't sure if anyone else was working on it)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i will fix it up
<pitti> seb128: oh, watch has http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/empathy/([0-9.]+)/empathy-(.*).tar.gz
<kenvandine> smerp wrote it originally
<seb128> pitti, it's equivalent
<kenvandine> but it doesn't do much more than toggle
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - cool!
<pitti> weird
<seb128> pitti, http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/empathy/2.28/empathy-2.28.1.1.tar.gz
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, i fixed it up to be a little more useful but never figured out how to make xchat-gnome change which channel/pm is displayed
<pitti> seb128: hm, uscan fail then; anyway, thanks
<seb128> pitti, you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - i'm not sure either. i've not had a look at the xchat-gnome source in any great detail yet
<seb128> I tend to not let bzr-buildpackage download things since most GNOME packages are buggy and download the tarball twice
<chrisccoulson> so i need to think of something else to work on in lucid:)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, plugins are pretty simple... but i don't see a function for changing the views
<seb128> kenvandine, I might start using the indicator if xchat-gnome put things there
<kenvandine> seb128, well maybe i should finish it :)
<seb128> kenvandine, it just doesn't fit my im and email workflows
<seb128> I want to know about im messages not to queue those
<seb128> and I do decide when I read email based on when I'm not doing something
<seb128> not based on when things arrive
<seb128> I've always unread emails coming anyway
<seb128> would it only be spams
<seb128> so the indicator is useful for those
<pitti> yeah; trying email into a synchronous medium is just madness
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll clean it up
<kenvandine> i might just need to include more headers from the frontend stuff to actually use the widgets directly
<kenvandine> i can change channels that way
<kenvandine> but seems like something they should include in the plugin api
<seb128> bah
<seb128> f-spot doesn't start in the guest session
 * seb128 boots a kvm iso for testing
<huats> does anyone has seen repports about  automount of usbsticks/hd that dont' automount after a jaunty -> karmic upgrade ?
<seb128> huats, do you have gnome-volume-manager installed?
<seb128> hum, new wave theme makes f-spot crash
<seb128> who is maintaining those themes, seems nobody look at the bug list on launchpad
<huats> seb128, nope
<seb128> huats, ok good, use ubuntu-bug it has magic to debug those
<seb128> just "ubuntu-bug", select debug removable media issues
 * asac gone for some errands. will be back later (~2h)
<huats> seb128, done
<seb128> huats, bug number?
<huats> seb128,  bug 463347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463347 in gvfs "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347
<seb128> is nautilus running?
<huats> it is
<seb128> and the usb key is neither listed in nautilus computer, sidebar not places menu now?
<huats> seb128, nope
<seb128> is it listed in gnome-disk-utility?
<seb128> I think the apport bug filing magic is wrong there
<seb128> it's a bug with the key not with gvfs
<seb128> it has no type nor version
<huats> seb128,  it was working great with jaunty (with the same key)
<seb128> ie seems your partition is not formated or something
<seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34601723/DKDisksMonitorLog.txt
<seb128> empty type version
<huats> I have tested with 3 differents stuffs
<huats> (keys or HD I mean)
<huats> I can send the debug infos with another one...
<seb128> pitti, ^ any clue?
<seb128> or chrisccoulson might know too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you read about usb mounting not working for some users?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've not noticed that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> huats, dunno what is going on on your system then
<huats> :(
<huats> that is quite weird
<seb128> is the key listed in usb-screator?
<seb128> or gnome-disk-utility?
<huats> seb128, I don't have gnome-disk-utility
<huats> but it is listed in gparted
<huats> not seen in usb-creator
<huats> I am installing gnome-disk-utiliy
<seb128> ok
<huats> seb128, when you say gnome-disk-utility what binar do you mean ?
<huats> since I do have the package installed
<seb128> system, admin, disk utility
<huats> ok
<huats> seb128, it is seen
<seb128> and you can mount it using mount?
<huats> (the binary is named Palimpsest)
<seb128> it is listed in fstab too?
<huats> fstab ? not
<huats> nor the mtab
<huats> I can mount it using mount
<seb128> and mount /dev/sdb1 /media/something?
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> does it show a valid filesystem type in palimpsest?
<seb128> so I don't know why it's not working
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #463347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463347 in gvfs "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the devicekit-disks log has no type nor version
<seb128> like there was no fs known
<seb128> which is weird
<huats> there is a fs since I have data on it that I can access :)
<huats> (using mount)
<huats> chrisccoulson, actually palimptest do not detect the fs type I think
<chrisccoulson> dk-disks gets the fs type from the ID_FS_TYPE attribute for the device
<chrisccoulson> so if that is missing, then it's an issue with whatever detects the filesystem type
<chrisccoulson> and i can't remember what does that ;)
<huats> :)
<mvo_> seb128: should I take #464428 or are you on it already?
<mvo_> bug  #464428
<chrisccoulson> indeed, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34601725/UdevMonitorLog.txt shows that attribute is missing
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 464428 could not be found
<chrisccoulson> huats^^
<mvo_> bug 463328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463328 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 "package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstautoconvert.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0:0.10.16-1ubuntu3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463328
<huats> chrisccoulson, so what can I do to help ?
<chrisccoulson> not sure yet, i'm trying to figure that out:)
<huats> :)
<chrisccoulson> but i'm at work and i have to keep hiding pidgin when my boss walks nearby;)
<huats> chrisccoulson, sure
<huats> don't take any risks :)
<chrisccoulson> huats - it's a slow day today anyway;)
<huats> :)
<chrisccoulson> well, it is for me anyway!
<pitti> huats: did you file a bug about it? (sorry, I was buried reading bugs)
<pitti> huats: oh, 463347, nevermind
<pitti> huats: I'll follow up in the bug, let's keep the discussion there
<huats> pitti, sure !
<huats> thanks guys !
<pitti> but first, congrats everyone for karmic!!
 * pitti celebrates
<chrisccoulson> i just saw the announcement \o/
<pitti> #u-r-p is pure madness
 * pitti goes to process SRUs
<chrisccoulson> i need to leave work and party!
<seb128> mvo_, you can look at it thanks
<Laney> seb128: how do you want to do/version this SRU?
<Laney> can't sync for it, right?
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - i'm going to prepare a gnome-desktop SRU later
<chrisccoulson> do we want to SRU the gsd-locate-pointer issue we discussed yesterday?
<seb128> Laney, no we can't
<seb128> Laney, we can fake sync with karmic-proposed target
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for gnome-desktop, not sure about g-s-d
<pedro_> folks, just ping me if you need anything to be verified quickly on the SRU side
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems something we can maybe combine with other pending changes if there is any
<pedro_> i'll be taking a look into those anyways
<seb128> pedro_, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, congrats to you too ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no worries, i'll work on the gnome-desktop update later
<pedro_> seb128, my pleasure ;-)
<pedro_> and congrats for a rocking release guys!
<pedro_> so much nice comments on twitter/identi.ca/etc
<seb128> pitti and chrisccoulson: you guys did rocking work with new devicekits etc changes in karmic btw thanks again
<pitti> \o/
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * Laney is seeding like crazy
<chrisccoulson> seb128 / pitti - thanks for sponsoring all my work too:)
<hggdh> seb128: the dbus errors in evolution seem to be caused by glib2/gconf calls, not directly by evo. It may be due to evo being heavily threaded
<hggdh> mcrha has told me he has just seen similar bug reports in fedora
<seb128> hggdh, how did you figure that? all those all duplicates?
<seb128> ok
<hggdh> seb128: most of the calls involving dbus were driven from glib/gconf calls
<seb128> hggdh, read the upstream chan discussion now
<hggdh> I am not sure how I can classify them all as dups (code path changes radically, sometimes), but this *may* need some serialisation in evo
<pedro_> mm so they might be all dups of a bug i've sent a few weeks ago there
 * pedro_ looks
<seb128> pitti, do you know who is responsive for gnome-themes-ubuntu?
 * hggdh has just been preempted asking for the bug# by migthy pedro_
<pitti> seb128: ubuntu artwork team, by and large (hi kwwii!)
<seb128> pitti, do you know who is responsive for gnome-themes-ubuntu, seems nobody is very active on launchpad bugs there?
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> pitti, new wave makes f-spot crash on start
<pedro_> hggdh, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593017
<ubottu> Gnome bug 593017 in Misc. "evolution-data-server-2.28 crashed with SIGSEGV" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> pitti, speaking about f-spot it doesn't start in the guest session either, is there a way to desactivate the apparmor profile there to see if that's the issue?
<dobey> james_w: hey. around?
<james_w> dobey: yes
<hggdh> pedro_: thank you
<pedro_> hggdh, that's the gconf-over-dbus according to mbarnes
<pedro_> hggdh, you're welcome
<hggdh> yeah. This is going to be bad for us :-(
<seb128> it's going to be an issue for any distro
<dobey> james_w: hey. i understand that the source package branches stuff has a few different ways it works. is there any documentation on those differences?
<james_w> dobey: /usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/
<pedro_> we just got the bug first...
<dobey> james_w: thanks
<james_w> dobey: file:///usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/user_manual even
<hggdh> it is indeed, but we tend to be at the bleeding edge
<seb128> well we just ship 2.28 there
<seb128> not e-d-s over dbus yet which is 2.29
<seb128> in any case I wonder if that creates real user issues
<hggdh> yes. But gconf now uses dbus
<seb128> out of apport triggering
<seb128> gconf uses dbus for years
<hggdh> then something radically changed in evo 2.28
<seb128> I think something changed in evo yes
<seb128> gconf didn't change a lot recently
<seb128> the dbus version is there since hardy
<tgpraveen1> in ubuntu karmic, networkmanager seems to be having problem with policykit
<tgpraveen1> or something each time i have to connect i need to enter my password so that Nm can access the keyring for that
<tgpraveen1> connection's password
<tgpraveen1> and many times the dialog asking for password itself doesnt appear and thats why Nm is not able to make a successful connection and i dont get any indication of error also
<cassidy> hey guys; congrats for the release!
<seb128> hey cassidy, thanks
<seb128> cassidy, empathy 2.28.1.1 accepted as candidate update with libindicator issue fixed btw
<seb128> should make everybody happy
<tgpraveen1> great work everybody. superb release . thanks a lot!
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> tgpraveen1, your password issue is on ubuntu or unr?
<hggdh> hum. I will have another look at the threadStackTraces for e-d-s again.
 * hggdh got an idea (probably wrong, but what the hell)
<cassidy> seb128, \o/
<tgpraveen1> ubuntu
<seb128> ok, asac might know then
<seb128> I've seen a similar bug about unr but none on ubuntu
<Laney> seb128: bug 463404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463404 in f-spot "New upstream release 0.6.14" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463404
<tgpraveen1> k. have pinged him about it on #nm. and btw many times the problems of policykit and networkmanager appear while setting up a new connection. ie the connection is setup and then it cant connect as it doesnt get access to keyring or something but it never asks me for entering password itself.
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<tgpraveen1> btw is it supposed to ask for system passsword at all coz it didnt  in jaunty?
<Laney> np
<pitti> seb128: yes, use sudo aa-complain gdm-guest-session
<seb128> I got none of my machines asking for system password there
<pitti> seb128: you can also check dmesg and see if you have violations there
<seb128> pitti, [13729.983870] type=1503 audit(1256823893.303:72): operation="file_mmap" pid=4115 parent=4077 profile="/usr/share/gdm/guest-session/Xsession" requested_mask="mrw::" denied_mask="m::" fsuid=102 ouid=102 name="/dev/shm/mono.4115"
<hggdh> hey pedro_, I see you now have bugsquad-assignement powers at b.g.o! Cool!
<pitti> oh
<pedro_> hggdh, yeah just 10 dollars
<seb128> pitti, there is lot of complains in fact in a guest session
<pitti> seb128: that makes sense
<seb128> pitti, /etc/compizconfig/config too
<pedro_> hggdh, oh going to UDS this time?
<hggdh> pedro_: if they are American dollars, it was really cheap ;-)
<pedro_> hggdh, you're a local right?
<pitti> seb128: it wants to mmap those? hm
<hggdh> pedro_: yes, I will be there, and yes, I am a local
<pedro_> hggdh, *awesome*
<seb128> pitti, it's using sqlite, not sure if that makes a difference there
<pitti> seb128: ah, that would mmap, yes
<pitti> seb128: can you please open a bug and assign to me? should be trivial to fix, I'll prepare an SRU
<pitti> but not today any more
<pitti> I'll meet with my wife at the fair, time for a quiet evening
<seb128> pitti, no hurry, will do, thanks
<pitti> seb128: and then, off you go as well :)
<seb128> right, swimming pool tonight and then non computer evening
<seb128> and 3 days weekend
<pitti> ah, enjoy
<seb128> I'm taking a vac day tomorrow again
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> I'll do a quiet day tomorrow, working on some pet projects
<james_w> seb128: enjoy, you deserve it
<seb128> james_w, thanks ;-)
<mac_v> seb128: actually user filed the bug #463345 in empathy , because in indicator applet Bug 450398 was rejected ;) ,also was rejected in Humanity ;p ... so he later filed the 463345 in empathy ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463345 in indicator-applet "Unread messages icon in indicator applet too discreet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450398 in indicator-applet "The "unread messages" appearance of the tray icon is not noticeable enough in Karmic" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450398
<seb128> mac_v, still not an empathy issue ;-)
<mac_v> yup :)
<seb128> re
<seb128> Laney, uploaded, needs to be approved now which will probably not be before tomorrow or next week
<hggdh> is the dbus library thread-safe?
<seb128> Keybuk, ^
<Laney> seb128: OK no hurry, thanks for looking at it
<seb128> Laney, thank you for doing the update ;-)
<Laney> was a boring upstream update really
<seb128> boring bug fixes is what we want in stable updates ;-)
<seb128> no new cracks
<Laney> yep :)
<seb128> mvo_, still there?
<seb128> mvo_, is there a way to add an usb key as cdrom source on hardy?
<seb128> bbl
<asac> tgpraveen1: what kind of connection is that?
<tgpraveen1> 3g modem
<tgpraveen1> usb modem
<tgpraveen1> which is supported ootb
<asac> tgpraveen1: "available to all users" ... or normal?
<tgpraveen1> cuurently at normal
<tgpraveen1> though earlier
<tgpraveen1> with available to all it was still giving same problems
<asac> ok
<asac> there seem to be issues with secrets + available to all users
<asac> for some ppp things
<asac> tgpraveen1: but lets continue in #nm ... see you are there too ;)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, whats with the "capabilities mismatch" with ubuntu one?
<chrisccoulson> i just saw that after signing in for the first time today
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: it's in the release notes, you need to update
<chrisccoulson> jcastro - thanks:)
<chrisccoulson> heh, the archive is painfully slow
<Laney> 443, not bad
<chrisccoulson> i can't connect to the main archive now
<chrisccoulson> and i'm trying to find a mirror that's not out of date ;)
<chrisccoulson> right, time for more pidgin debugging
<pitti> yay, lucid exists in LP
<mac_v> pitti: when will lucid alpha1 be available?
<pitti> mac_v: hm, something like 4 weeks perhaps, not sure
<mac_v> o.0 4weeks with no crashes ... /me sad
<chrisccoulson> are you all looking forward to UDS now?
<pitti> yes!
<czajkowski> yup
<chrisccoulson> it will be quiet here for a couple of weeks!
<chrisccoulson> i might have to do some work in the daytime :(
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, what is your daytime job that you can spend so much time here? :)
<chrisccoulson> hey kklimonda - sorry, i went for dinner
<chrisccoulson> i'm an electronics engineer in the day
<chrisccoulson> but i hate it ;)
<chrisccoulson> so i spend all day on here instead!"
<dobey> heh
<chrisccoulson> yes! weekend! :)
<mac_v> dobey: hey , when could i expect the update of the fdo page regarding the delete and remove icons? I'd like to file a bug in the apps , regarding that ;)
<mac_v> if i file them now , probably the devs would just say the fdo page isnt clear :(
<dobey> mac_v: even when i fix the spec, the page itself won't get updated automatically. what's currently there isn't what's currently in trunk i don't think :-/
<mac_v> dobey: hmm , weird :( ... just out of curiosity why is that it wont update?  or is there anyplace i could point that this is the right spec?
<dobey> mac_v: you could point at the docbook file in git i guess
<mac_v> dobey: great... :) the gnome-theme git?
<dobey> mac_v: it doesn't update automatically because it's a script that gets run, that has config that points at specific revisions/tags to pull the docbook to generate the different versions
<dobey> mac_v: no
<dobey> mac_v: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/default-icon-theme/tree/spec/icon-naming-spec.xml
<mac_v> dobey: awesome , thanks , so once that gets updated ... /me will go on bug rampage ;)
<dobey> mac_v: can you please file a bug for that against the iocn-naming-spec project on launchpad?
<mac_v> dobey: sure... will do
<dobey> thanks
<dobey> and now, i gotta go do some other stuff :)
<kklimonda> btw any idea how can I hide partition from gvfs? I have two partitions on my android sdcard and both are mounted and detected by media players as android phones :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, not sure
<chrisccoulson> are they appearing as removable storage devices? or as media devices?
<kklimonda> hmm
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, how to check it?
<chrisccoulson> the output of gvfs-mount -li will give a clue
<kklimonda> brb, I'll load gnome :)
<chrisccoulson> if you see 'GProxyVolumeMonitorGdu' next to the device, then it's just a removable drive
<chrisccoulson> if you see 'GProxyVolumeMonitorGPhoto' or something similar, then it's a media device
<kklimonda> btw, 9.10 is almost unusable on 512ram - at least in my case :/
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i've been using it for some testing in a 512MB VM, and it seems to be ok
<kklimonda> GProxyVolumeMonitorGdu
<chrisccoulson> so it's being picked up and mounted as removable storage?
<chrisccoulson> but media players detect it as something else?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, when you launch Firefox, some terminals, Evolution, rhythmbox it starts to swap.. and my disk is slow
<chrisccoulson> ah, Firefox is pretty heavy anyway
<chrisccoulson> i struggle with Firefox with 2GB of RAM
<chrisccoulson> especially when there are 2 user sessions open, and both sessions have a Firefox instance running
<chrisccoulson> the machine is unusable then ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, rhythmbox detects both mounted partitions as "1.4 GB Filesystem" and "535 MB Filesystem", Banshee displays them both as "HTC Dream Android" or something - can't check it right now
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's wierd then. i don't know what banshee uses to get the info
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, it's not a default setup
<chrisccoulson> banshee might still be getting the info from HAL
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, that's why I don't want to report bugs, just somehow hide the smaller one from gvfs/players
<chrisccoulson> whereas rhythmbox is talking to UDEV instead
<chrisccoulson> that will probably cause some inconsistency
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure if it's inconsistency - both players detects both partitions and handles them as if they are both for media - the smaller one is for applications, it's not an official android feature so I guess no one cared to test it out
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm. i've got an android phone here - should probably try it out
<chrisccoulson> if i can find it!
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, you would need an cyanogenmod or another apps2sd modification
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, it's a bug in a way that whatever you copy to the smaller partition won't show on a phone. At the same time it may be a case of not supported user modification ;)
<kklimonda> (well, it will show on a phone if you use terminal or some 3rd party file browser - just not in media player)
 * chrisccoulson shouldn't leave his phone on display in his car
<kklimonda> :}
<chrisccoulson> ok, thats confusing
<kklimonda> I've written too much ;)
<chrisccoulson> i plug in my phone, and i get a nautilus window AND rhythmbox opens
<kklimonda> interesting :)
<chrisccoulson> oh, that might just be because i already had rhythmbox open
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I think I got 2 dialogs whenever I connected my phone - one for photos and other for music
<kklimonda> (the ones that ask me what to do)
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, that's a bit wierd
<kklimonda> I can't check if it's still the case because I've marked to not show them anymore
<kklimonda> no idea where can I unmark this option ;)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm "x_content_types: x-content/image-dcf x-content/audio-player"
<chrisccoulson> so nautilus just decides it will do the actions for photos and music player at the same time
<chrisccoulson> i don't know if that is expected behaviour
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, where can I change the default actions btw?
<kklimonda> I can't find it anywhere
<chrisccoulson> it's hidden away in a really obvious and intuitive location....
<chrisccoulson> it's in Nautilus - Edit -> Preferences, and then the Media tab
<chrisccoulson> lots of users already complain about that ;)
<chrisccoulson> ooh dear, where did everyone go?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, oh right, now that I know what application is responsible for it it's indeed obvious :)
<chrisccoulson> it's not obvious to a lot of people though
<chrisccoulson> pfft, i don't want an icon that looks like an ipod for my android phone
<chrisccoulson> i want an icon that looks like my phone
<chrisccoulson> mac_v ^^ :P
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, it's the kind of preference I look for in System->Preferences
<kklimonda> and not in application's settings
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - there is an icon in the preferences menu, but it's hidden by default
<chrisccoulson> "File Management"
<kklimonda> oh, yummy - nautilus actually displays 3 dialogs for me when I connect the android. The 3rd one is from my custom partition..
<chrisccoulson> but that's not very helpful either ;)
<chrisccoulson> ah, if there are multiple partitions, then that's normal anyway
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure of any other way around that really
<kklimonda> how does nautilus decide that the partition is from music player?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: hmmm? i didnt understand... which icon? is being used? gvfs dumped a crap load of new stuff and probably davidz only knows all the icon names :(
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - it's the "multimedia-player" icon
<chrisccoulson> i was joking btw ;)
<chrisccoulson> i don't mind an icon that looks a bit like an ipod really
<mac_v>  ;)
 * bryce__ changes all of chrisccoulson's icons into ipods randomly
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - the media gets a x-content-type attribute, which nautilus uses
<chrisccoulson> bryce__ - thanks:)
<mac_v> but seriously the gvfs guys changed the icon names according to their wishes , now several is as was earlier :(
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, as I thought - any chance I could override it by some dot-file ?
<mac_v> *is NOT as was earlier :(
<kklimonda> .not-a-media-player or something ;)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - not sure. i'm trying to work out where the x-content-type attributes come from
<kklimonda> btw, I really like the new folder names for mounted partitions
<chrisccoulson> using UUID's?
<kklimonda> yeah..
<chrisccoulson> so do i, but some users already complained about that
<chrisccoulson> they want disk-1, disk-2 etc...
<kklimonda> nothing like trying to guess what does CB08-D42C mean ;)
<chrisccoulson> using UUID's gives some persistence though
<kklimonda> It's better if disk has no label imo
<kklimonda> yeah
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - the content type comes from shared-mime-info then
<chrisccoulson> although, i sort of expected that anyway, but i wanted to work out how it gets from there to nautilus ;)
<kklimonda> always the curious one ;)
<chrisccoulson> indeed
<chrisccoulson> time to change my VM's to lucid now:)
<kklimonda> :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, bug 463845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463845 in ubuntuone-client "UbuntuOne is an embarassing load of crap" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463845
<chrisccoulson> some users aren't very polite
<bryce__> chrisccoulson, that's an understatement
<chrisccoulson> in general, or just this particular case?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, frankly I don't like the way Evolution is integrated with Ubuntu One (Evolution being the only application using ubuntu one I know about)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - its only for contact sync though isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> and it's "opt-in" too
<chrisccoulson> tomboy has u1 integration too
<chrisccoulson> i don't need the contact sync in evolution, because i sync them all with google instead
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but it creates yet another contact book..
<chrisccoulson> where i can access them on my android phone:)
<kklimonda> yes, so am I
<chrisccoulson> so i just don't use the u1 contact sync stuff
<chrisccoulson> i will probably use it to sync notes, if i eventually buy myself a netbook
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, then you are left with tomboy sync.. who uses tomboy anyway? ;)
<chrisccoulson> i use tomboy ;)
<kklimonda> really? I've tried few times and found it too bloated to be a sticky notes replacement and not working as a full-time note taking software :)
<kklimonda> but maybe that's just me
<chrisccoulson> it's useful for noting down random thoughts at 3am when i'm debugging stuff, before my brain shrivels up due to lack of sleep
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, the problem I personally have with U1 right now is that it's not as integrated with Ubuntu as I'd like it to be
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's still early days though
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure more stuff will use it eventually:)
<kklimonda> and for some reason I don't like whole couchdb which is weird because I have never really used it ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that stuff's all magic to me. i don't understand how it works or what it does yet ;)
<chrisccoulson> and i don't use things that i don't understand
<kklimonda> command line arguments for launching it that show up in ps aux are scarry though
<chrisccoulson> lol, yeah, just noticed that ;)
<chrisccoulson> bbl, need to go and watch some TV :)
<kklimonda> TV is overrated ;)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Do you ahve any pending SRUs that will need uploading today? I am specifically thinking of brasero.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, looking..
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, brasero and bug 456269 (clutter-gtk)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456269 in clutter-gtk "Unlike libclutter, libclutter-gtk does not include gobject introspection data" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/456269
<TheMuso> For brasero, all that needs to be done is the bug has to be fixed up for the SRU, the bzr repo needs a slight tweak, and it can be re-uploaded.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, what needs changing?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: The justification of the SRU and regression potential. Unless the GNOME packages are done differently and I am not aware of it.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I think in general the GNOME stable updates don't need a lot of description.  I'll ping seb128 and pitti to check
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, the release seems very quiet - do you know of any major problems?  Do you know if U1 got fixed ok?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: The ubuntu one fixes are in proposed now I believe. There were a lot of acceptances into the proposed repo after we released, according to karmic-changes.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I saw totem was also uploaded, so I'll check to see how that bug looks.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Refer to bug #463102 for what has to be done as an example.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463102 in totem "Update to 2.28.2" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463102
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ok, will do
<fta> could someone please have a look at bug 460710?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460710 in evolution "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, debdiff attached
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok thanks will take a look in a bit.
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-30
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: re https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-gtk/+bug/456269, you need to target the upload to karmic-proposed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456269 in clutter-gtk "Unlike libclutter, libclutter-gtk does not include gobject introspection data" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i just noticed you touched bug 132413 a couple of months ago. based on the fact that the upstream report has been marked WONTFIX for 2 years, do you think we should just close the Ubuntu bug too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 132413 in gnome-control-center "Merge "Display" into "Appearance" applet" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132413
<chrisccoulson> the changes would be far too big to maintain as a distro patch anyway
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, looking
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> i would just close it, but i wanted someone elses opinion first ;)
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yeah, I'd say close it
<mclasen> in the end we'll just have one capplet, and we'll call it 'control-center'...
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll do that now
<robert_ancell> mclasen, :)
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - yeah, that would be better:)
<mclasen> and then the cycle will restart anew...
<mclasen> we've been there 2 times already :)
<robert_ancell> the age old problem of categorisation - you can never find the perfect boundaries
<chrisccoulson> i don't know what the plans are for gnome-control-center this cycle, but we really need to clean up some of our distro patches and make them more acceptable for upstream
<chrisccoulson> our g-c-c package is becoming unmaintainable with all the patches we have
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Note that a lot of that is from Debian.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso - yeah, we should probably try to get some of them upstream where appropriate anyway
<chrisccoulson> and we don't always have to use the debian patches either. for example, debian maintain some really wierd and large patches for gnome-panel, which we don't use in ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> s/wierd/weird
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: re brasero, I'll tweak the repo for karmic-proposed, but thanks for the debdiff.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, now I see what you mean
<KurtKraut> I've noticed that on Karmic, notify-osd is showing alerts in a much lower position. This is quit anoying. Is this normal? Here is a sample: http://www.kurtkraut.net/images/isitnormal.gif
<chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - thats the expected behaviour, and has been discussed extensively on the mailing lists recently
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok for clutter-gtkk, its probably necessary to make changes to the bug as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: brasero is fine as is, so I'll go ahead an upload.
<KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I got so surprised with that I came here to check before making a bug report. I could barely belive this was intencional. Thanks for your clarification but let shift the focus a little bit: can I set notify-osd to the height that Jaunty had?
<chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - no, it's not configurable
<KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, thanks again for your information. But I cannot hide how I'm very disapointed to know that.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, what would you write for it that is not already in the description?
<chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - there is extensive discussion about the change here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00751.html
<chrisccoulson> including some rationale why the decision was made
<KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I'll read it and join my voice to the groups of users that find this new position incredibly annoing.
<chrisccoulson> fantastic, totem has just crashed on me and leaked a session inhibitor in the process:(
<chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - i'm not sure it needs any more people ranting about the new behaviour on the mailing lists ;)
<KurtKraut> chrisccoulson, I can see your point but the fact Karmic was released with such a bad design decision is an evidence that this haven't received enough attention and consideration.
<chrisccoulson> KurtKraut - it received plenty of consideration and attention in karmic, as you will find out when you read through that thread ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i bet dobey's inbox is filling up with duplicate U1 bugs ;)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: well as per that page, discuss why this is needed, the regression potential needs to be talked about as well.
<kklimonda> btw
<chrisccoulson> it seems most users aren't checking if a bug is already reported
<kklimonda> the new dialog that asks for permission to, for example, change cpu frequency or governor doesn't have option to keep authorization
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - that's part of the new PK design
<kklimonda> how to keep it and avoid typing password now and then?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, i know, i know
<chrisccoulson> it should keep the authorization, with an option to drop it by clicking on the status icon that appears
<chrisccoulson> is that not happening?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but it doesn't keep it over sessions
<chrisccoulson> there's no way of doing that with the new design
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, can I say that it's stupid?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure it's stupid really. if you're going to keep authorizations between sessions, then there's probably no need for any authentication in the first place
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, btw - what happened to all settings concerning removable disks? as in who can mount or eject them?
<chrisccoulson> which settings?
<kklimonda> in 9.04 you could launch polkit-gnome-editor (or whatever it's called) and set up which users/groups can/can not mount removable devices
<chrisccoulson> there's no such tool which exists for the new API
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but it's still possible?
<chrisccoulson> it's still possible to edit policies, but you'd need to read the PK documentation to figure out how
<chrisccoulson> i've not tried configuring it yet
<kklimonda> looks like a nice todo item for 10.04 ;)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne#Release_Notes
<kklimonda> i can't..
<kklimonda> stupid ipv6
<kklimonda> time to disable it
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, Is it this page where they state that the current policy editor is bad and something else should be written? ;)
<kklimonda> huh, text files?
<chrisccoulson> it's not actually what i thought it was (i probably should have read it first), but it does have a link to documentation which helps you configure it
<kklimonda> and here I thought we were moving away from manually editing text files :)
<chrisccoulson> we're moving away from giving users a gazillion confusing ways to customize their machine in the UI ;)
<chrisccoulson> out of interest, how come you need to adjust CPU frequency regularly? does the ondemand governor not work well for you?
<kklimonda> frankly I find all changes made in 9.10 making Ubuntu more confusing than 9.04 :/
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I have broken fan
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok, that makes sense
<chrisccoulson> in normal circumstances, there should be no need to change the governor
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but the question was actually from a guy who tries to scale cpu to the lowest level to save battery time
<kklimonda> which is probably wrong
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a myth
<chrisccoulson> the lowest power consumption will occur when the CPU can get the tasks done in the fastest amount of time
<chrisccoulson> so that it can sleep for longer
<chrisccoulson> forcing a slower clock speed means the CPU sleeps for less, and power consumption is no better (or possible worse)
<kklimonda> ya, I remember reading that
<kklimonda> btw
<kklimonda> was something changed after 8.04 release? my laptop decided to shutdown (probably due to overheating)
<kklimonda> shutdown as in shutdown and not power off without delay
<chrisccoulson> not sure - i don't know what would cause that
<kklimonda> during apt-get upgrade ;)
<chrisccoulson> ouch
<kklimonda> It wasn't that bad - I was able to dpkg --configure -a from terminal
<chrisccoulson> i'm impressed. most users just report a bug rather than reading the instructions ;)
<kklimonda> well, I'm not really most of users ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, thats true
<kklimonda> but still it was an unexpected and stressful experience
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine
<bryce__> I had that happen with a laptop that had a busted fan
<bryce__> cpu would overheat and it'd shut down
<bryce__> cpu frequency scaling helped some, but I ended up just chucking the system (it was old and nvidia based anyway)
<kklimonda> bryce__, but shut down system or poweroff completely without delay?
<bryce__> powered down without delay
<bryce__> * ppfftt *
<kklimonda> bryce__, my main machine is busted (at least gpu - I can still use it as a server/ssh working station ;) )
<kklimonda> and this one is some very old Thinkpad
<kklimonda> fan works some of the time
<bryce__> especially during upgrades or software builds, where cpu would be under some load for a while
<bryce__> maybe see if you can monitor the cpu temperature
<kklimonda> bryce__, I know it was overheating - I can feel it :)
<chrisccoulson> bryce__ - do you not like nvidia based hardware? ;)
<bryce__> as a workaround, what I'd do is put a box fan blowing over the keyboard
<bryce__> chrisccoulson, *pffttt*
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm actually considering buying a desktop pc with integrated intel gpu ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, don't get nvidia
<kklimonda> or some old radeon
<chrisccoulson> 2 words - "white windows"
<chrisccoulson> (if you're doing user switching anyway)
<chrisccoulson> hate hate hate nvidia
<chrisccoulson> my last nvidia card failed as soon as the warranty expired too ;)
<bryce__> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/drivers.svg
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, same here - I have had mother board replace a little over year ago because of gpu and not it's the same problem..
<bryce__> nvidia-180 is now the X video driver with the most bugs filed against it
<kklimonda> openchrome looks pretty decent ;)
<kklimonda> bryce__, it doesn't mean much without number of installations :)
<chrisccoulson> bryce__ - i don't report any bugs against the nvidia driver any more. i'm not sure what we're meant to do with them really
<kklimonda> neither do I
<bryce__> chrisccoulson, yeah I don't really look at them, except if they're misfiled against !nvidia
<bryce__> (and then I just refile them)
<bryce__> kklimonda, unless more people are buying nvidia systems lately, just looking at the nvidia curve alone tells you there seems to be a problem
<kklimonda> bryce__, why is intel so buggy? I hear people complaining all the time about intel drivers in ubuntu
<kklimonda> (I don't really listen to users of other distributions so I don't know if it's ubuntu-specific problem :) )
<chrisccoulson> the driver works reasonably well for single user systems, but the user experience is pretty rubbish if you're doing user switching
<bryce__> kklimonda, it's like you alluded to - -intel is a popular driver and more people use it than other things so run into more bugs
<chrisccoulson> especially when applications (eg, update-notifier / update-manager etc) open windows in the inactive session
<bryce__> also rate of development on -intel is high so new bugs are introduced all the time
<bryce__> kklimonda, however it should be pretty solid these days.  what in particular are people complaining about?
<kklimonda> bryce__, performance :)
<kklimonda> or "compiz doesn't work" ;)
<bryce__> oh people always complain about performance on intel
<bryce__> but usually the only testing they do is with glxgears, and that's pretty useless
<bryce__> anyway, most of the bugs this past year on -intel have been due to the rearchitecting they did, to XAA/KMS/etc.
<chrisccoulson> does anyone have any success with ATI these days?
<kklimonda> I wonder if we'll be able to smooth all the rough edges all those transitions has created till 10.04 :/
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I remember that radeon 8500 was fairly good ;)
<chrisccoulson> cool. i need to start thinking about what my next desktop will consist of ;)
<bryce__> yeah -ati is pretty good on R5xx and earlier
<bryce__> for R600 and up you need -fglrx, which works passingly well
<bryce__> performance is good too, compared with -intel
<kklimonda> I'm probably going to buy some well supported (as in fairly old) ATI card and become a laughingstock..
<bryce__> compiz can be so-so, and no KMS
<bryce__> I use a R5xx chip for my main desktop and have been quite pleased with it
<bryce__> although I don't do heavy gaming or anything
<bryce__> but most games I've tested have been playable
<chrisccoulson> i don't do any heavy gaming either. which makes my current card a big waste of money really
<kklimonda> I guess buying a cheap gpu and gaming console is a better investment if you are interested in linux :)
<bryce__> R5xx cards are cheap too since they're fairly old.  Can't get them in a laptop tho
<chrisccoulson> i currently have a factory overclocked 512MB 8800GT, and I struggled to get it in my full-size tower
<kklimonda> my next laptop is going to be a netbook.. something I can just throw away when warranty ends..
<chrisccoulson> i had to hack fins off the chipset cooler to get it to fit in ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, interesting choice :)
<bryce__> kklimonda, just avoid anything poulsbo
<bryce__> aka GMA500
<kklimonda> and 4500? :)
<kklimonda> bryce__, GMA500 is just not well supported yet or is that some obscure technology that is not going to be supported well in a short term?
<bryce__> chrisccoulson, yeah one of my test cards is this hurking nvidia thing, that takes up two pci slots in height and is long as the motherboard in length.  It's bigger than a cdrom drive
<chrisccoulson> bryce__ - yeah, the size of some current cards is ridiculous really
<chrisccoulson> i never thought i would have an issue fitting anything in to my case, as it's quite big
<bryce__> kklimonda, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#Linux
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, their are basically separate computers :)
<kklimonda> bryce__, yeah, I've just read..
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - they are. and it even has it's own power feed
<kklimonda> bryce__, it's almost like SB Live 24bit :)
<chrisccoulson> when i build my next machine, i should probably build a machine that idles at less than 100W witout the monitor on
<bryce__> really, on linux I've never seen an appreciable difference with those huge cards.  I've seen tiny half-width cards that were perfectly suitable, at least for my usage
<bryce__> all I need is two heads and 2D ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i think i could make do with a much lower-spec card
<kklimonda> bryce__, it's obvious that the only game you play is mahjongg ;)
<bryce__> :-)
<bryce__> mahjongg rocks
<kklimonda> but on the other hand buying an expensive gpu and installing only linux isn't the smartest move..
<bryce__> actually I did play a flash game (farmville) for a little while, but performance was bad.  Dunno if that was my hardware or just flash being slow though
<chrisccoulson> is that the game on facebook?
<kklimonda> bryce__, don't know why but flash is really slow on linux..
<bryce__> yeah
<kklimonda> it was that bad on Mac OS X too so maybe it's just Adobe sucks at porting..
<chrisccoulson> one of my colleagues has done some neat little flash games
<chrisccoulson> http://www.pembo.com/
<chrisccoulson> under "flash stash"
<chrisccoulson> well, not so much "games", but rather "interactive animations"
<kklimonda> has he redesigned his page as a memento for geocities? ;)
<chrisccoulson> flash is really CPU intensive on my machine
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok will deal with the clutter-gtk upload, thanks for fixing the description.
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, but at least linux kernel supports 4096 CPUs ;)
<bryce__> I'm running amd64, so I guess I'm lucky flash works at all ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i'm running amd64 too
<kklimonda> have amd64 version of flash made it to 9.10?
<TheMuso> I have read a bit about flash not being nearly as good on OS X and Linux as it is on Windows, to the point that accessibility ingegration for mac or Linux hasn't been done either, whereas its usable with accessibility tools on Windows.
<kklimonda> or are we still stuck with this wrapper that never really works? :)
<bryce__> (I've been using a flash build kees packaged, not the stock flash)
<TheMuso> For me at least, I use youtube in other ways. Its the only flash site I tend to visit.
<kklimonda> that's kinda sad that the only decent usage of flash is to display movies..
<kklimonda> and yet people are using it everywhere
<TheMuso> Yeah. Hopefully the HTML5 video in browser stuff takes off.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i hope so too
<bryce__> yeah flash video was the #1 must-have for my dad in getting linux
<chrisccoulson> i don't have flash on android, and it's a real pain for some stuff
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson, like what?
<chrisccoulson> watching videos on the BBC News website
<kklimonda> hmm, right - whenever I use browser in my android I'm someplace where the best connection I can hope for is EDGE so watching videos isn't high on my list :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: the glutter-gtk package with your debdiff fails to find files that you indicated needed to be installed.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, they are already built, they only had to be added to the .install files
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, you mean when you build it it doesn't find the files referenced in the .install?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Yes, it doesn't find them. I think its a typo.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, rebuilding here...
<robert_ancell> hmm, finds it for me
<TheMuso> What are you using to build?
<robert_ancell> debuild
<TheMuso> Hrm ok.
<TheMuso> Are you using a newer debdiff than whats on the bug?
<robert_ancell> no
<TheMuso> hrm ok
<TheMuso> Trying again
<TheMuso> this time, I am not building arch: all package
<TheMuso> packages
<robert_ancell> TheMuso,  can you try adding --enable-introspection=yes to DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
<TheMuso> dh_install -plibclutter-gtk-0.10-0
<TheMuso> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/girepository-1.0/': No such file or directory
<TheMuso> ok adding
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I suggest you set up a build chroot environment such as pbuilder.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: No, still fails.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I think it needs some more dependencies, will get pbuilder working again...
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I get this now.
<TheMuso> configure: error: gobject-introspection-1.0 is not installed
<TheMuso> make: *** [config.status] Error 1
<TheMuso> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<robert_ancell> yeah, not sure how many dependencies I have to add, will check with pbuilder
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Found the build dependencies needed. libgirepository1.0-dev, gobject-introspection-glib-2.0, gobject-introspection-freedesktop, gobject-introspection-repository
<TheMuso> One of them may depend on the others, haven't checked yet.
<TheMuso> Hrm no, they are all needed, none depend on each other.
<chrisccoulson> anyone here have Yahoo IM?
<azteech> chirsccoulson: yep
<chrisccoulson> azteech - would you mind adding me (chrisccoulson@yahoo.co.uk), as I need to make sure the hardy pidgin SRU is working
<chrisccoulson> and i don't normally use Yahoo
 * TheMuso is on MSN, and jabber, and never uses either. :p
<chrisccoulson> i don't normally use them either
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to be so tired at work tomorrow :(
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yeah I was just thinking that you are up late. :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm up again in 3 hours!
<TheMuso> Thats crazy.
<chrisccoulson> that will be a total of 7 hours sleep in 2 nights ;)
<TheMuso> Yup, crazy.
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to sleep well this weekend
<TheMuso> I'll bet.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Since its an SRU, I am surprised you couldn't wait to do it.
<azteech> done
<azteech> but, says you aren't logged in
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's odd
<azteech> also sent you a message via it .... but not under azteech -
<azteech> just sent you a private with the login name for yahoo
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<azteech> now it just came back and said unable to add chrisccoulson@yahoo.co.uk to server list
<azteech> just got an authorization message. so that seems to work
<chrisccoulson> i just got that too, but now i see you
<chrisccoulson> i think it needs to be without the @yahoo.co.uk part
<chrisccoulson> heh:)
<chrisccoulson> that's working now
<chrisccoulson> hardy users will be pleased now hopefully:)
<azteech> yep, it is ... don't ask me the inside on that ...
<azteech> :)
<chrisccoulson> seeing as they've had no working yahoo in pidgin for several months now
<chrisccoulson> whew
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i must go to bed now
<chrisccoulson> thanks!
<chrisccoulson> 'night everyone!
<azteech> actually, hardy had been working, if they updated directly from the pidgin all along with no problems at all using a work around I saw on the forums
<chrisccoulson> which workaround was this?
<chrisccoulson> using the default hardy client?
<chrisccoulson> it's a completely new authentication mechanism for the newer API
<azteech> will have to search for it, but basically had to do with an update from the pidgin site, not the one in the repo
<chrisccoulson> ah, that makes sense ;)
<azteech> yep
<chrisccoulson> this is an update to the official hardy version which i just tested
<azteech> kewl
<chrisccoulson> by backporting the authentication changes to the old code base
<azteech> then, yes, without having to go to the main site and update, they will be happy
<chrisccoulson> yep!
<azteech> congrats
<chrisccoulson> thanks for helping me test it anyway
<chrisccoulson> i must sleep now:)
<azteech> you are welcome
<azteech> nite bud
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hello pitti
<huats> morning
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i'll have a hardy pidgin SRU ready later
<chrisccoulson> complete with functioning yahoo!
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson, you rock
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
<pitti> I'm off for a bit, catching some fresh air and sun
<pitti> lazy day today :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti -were you looking at huats issue with a device partition not being detected correctly yesterday?
<huats> chrisccoulson, he is :)
<huats> thanks chrisccoulson for being interested
<huats> chrisccoulson, you have all the information in the bug :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i haven't checked the bug since yesterday. i just noticed someone reported bug 464411, which seems to be a similar type of issue (albeit, with a different filesystem type I think) - the device appears as "Unrecognised" in palimpsest
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464411 in linux "After upgrade to Karmic, root partition (sda1) is missing /dev/sda1 is missing from /dev/disk/by-uuid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464411
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, I had a followup question; blkid is fine, but it's not in udev for some reason
<tgpraveen1> seb128: around? the problem that i had yesterday with nm and gnome keyring
<tgpraveen1> i think it's gnome keyring (policykit??) as now after every time i boot my computer
<tgpraveen1> and try to maunt my windows partition also it asks for password
<tgpraveen1> anyone else saw this issue?
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - gnome-keyring is nothing to do with policykit
<chrisccoulson> when you mount an internal partition, you will be asked to authenticate using policykit (that is expected behaviour)
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: hi... what are the criterion for the SRU? i'm rather trying to find out the exact reason for the firefox 3.5 not landing in jaunty
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mac_v> or rather  ,not made the default when installed in jaunty > Bug #464601
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464601 in hundredpapercuts "a url still opens in old version of firefox after new version is installed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464601
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - it won't be made the default due to a limitation in how we specify the default applications
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: hmm is this behaviour new to karmic. because in jaunty it did not ask for authentication i think
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: yeah exactly , i remember asac mentioning something about that :)
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - we specify URI handlers in a set of gconf keys, and those are user configurable via gnome-default-applications
<tgpraveen1> and if so what is the reason because acccessing a local partition does not seem dangerour or anything.
<chrisccoulson> but the applications are hard-wired there
<mac_v> ah , right
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - the policy for mounting internal volumes is carried across from jaunty
<tgpraveen1> also do u think there is a way to do like either dont ask permission while mounting ( always allow? )
<chrisccoulson> so you would be prompted there too
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - Policykit documentation?
<chrisccoulson> or #ubuntu
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: there is no way , to tell it not to prompt
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: i definetely didnt have that. i was upgrading from intrepid->jaunty
<tgpraveen1> i didnt have it in jaunty
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, well, i had it in jaunty, and so did everyone else
<chrisccoulson> and that was the default policy
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: that was hal , this is now policykit
<tgpraveen1> and now that it does on karmic i feel like it is vistaish
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - they both still used policykit ;)
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: did u have the same behaviouyr in jaunty?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: wasnt hal able to control the automount?
<mac_v> ie: not ask password everytime
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - yes, mounting was done via HAL, but authorizations with Policykit
<chrisccoulson> so you still had to authenticate in order to mount internal volumes
<chrisccoulson> that behaviour hasn't changed since jaunty
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: in jaunty , i could set the authorizations to *not* prompt for password on every mount , pitti mentioned that that feature is not available now
<mac_v> let me get you the bug #
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - the feature is available, but just not exposed through the UI
<chrisccoulson> policykit is still configurable
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: ah , yeah , thats it , no UI
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: i was told to look into man policykit , but i was too lazy ;p
<chrisccoulson> man pklocalauthority is what you want
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: or that to be exact^
<chrisccoulson> does anyone here have a Yahoo IM account, and can message me, so I can test a Pidgin update one last time?
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: id
<chrisccoulson> chrisccoulson ;)
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: heh , so many volunteers :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't, but I assume I can create one easily?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it's pretty easy to create one
<chrisccoulson> i ended up creating one just for testing - i don't have any yahoo friends though ;)
<pitti> ok, doesn't work through pidgin; /me looks on yahoo.com
<chrisccoulson> the update seems to be working ok though :)
<mac_v> hehe , the empathy crash with yahoo , seems not happening ;)
<chrisccoulson> i think my mouse is dying
<kenvandine> mac_v, great!
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: kenvandine: Bug #423521 , was the one... i hadnt opened empathy since then ;)
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: chrisccoulson so um finally is there a bug or not for allowing auto mount of local hdds ie better ui ?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/423521)
<tgpraveen1> or do i file one
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - i'm not sure what you're asking? For me, I click on a volume, authenticate, and the volume is mounted
<chrisccoulson> i don't know what you want to change
<pitti> chrisccoulson: meh, the account creation pages' "Create Account" button doesn't work; hmpf
<chrisccoulson> pitti - in firefox?
<pitti> yes
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen1 - if you want auto-mounting of local volumes, then that is what /etc/fstab is for ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that's strange. so you can't test the pidgin update then ;)
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: i think what tgpraveen1 wants is for the fs to not auto mount and to not prompt for every mount
<mac_v> well i want that too ;)
<tgpraveen1> yeah because its a ntfs windwos partition
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: i think you need to file a bug for that.. i dont think there is one yet , or pitti / chrisccoulson  might know bug# ;)
<pitti> mac_v: it's not a bug
<pitti> it's meant to behave like that
<chrisccoulson> there's no bug number, because i'm not sure there's a bug
<chrisccoulson> right, what pitti said :)
<chrisccoulson> if you want autmounting, then use /etc/fstab. if you want to allow users to mount/unmount volumes from the file manager with no authentication, then your local policy needs adjusting
<mac_v> pitti: yup , not a bug , but a feature that is missing , now , previously the authorizations allowed to not prompt for every mount and there was a gui , but now no UI
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did you use another browser?
 * tgpraveen1 thinks this is going to cause a lot of inconvenience and annoyance
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i used firefox
<pitti> hm; it leads me to https://edit.europe.yahoo.com/config/eval_register?.intl=de&.pd=_ver%253D0%2526c%253D%2526ivt%253D%2526sg%253D&new=1&.done=http%3A//de.yahoo.com&.src=&.v=0&.u=6a7or1h5eltmv&partner=&.partner=&pkg=&stepid=&.p=&promo=&.last=
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ does that look like the same page as you used?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that looks like the page I see
<chrisccoulson> if i click the button without filling anything in, then it seems to work (i get lots of warnings about missing information)
<fta> could someone please have a look at bug 460710?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460710 in evolution "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, if I fill it out, it just sends me to the top of that page
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, I'll try again
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I think it didn't like my password copy/paste
<pitti> worked now
<chrisccoulson> excellent :)
<pitti> login failed in empathy, though
 * pitti checks for a confirmation mail
<mac_v> fta: i'm not having any problems with pop3 accounts, so it might be IMAP related
<fta> mac_v, i'm using imap but the place it fails seems to be unrelated, it's around murrine & cairo
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hrmpf; I click the "verify email" link, and it complains that I'm logged in with another account; it's the very same I just created
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's quite strange!
<chrisccoulson> i can see why i don't use yahoo now ;)
<fta> mac_v, cairo leaks 2GB in 4 blocks in a few seconds
<mac_v> fta: yeah , quite odd though , not sure how the pop or imap is causing this :/   , btw , is it only for the .ppt and .doc? hmm , i havent received such attachments in evolution , [/me uses thunderbird and evolution]
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so, the web IM doesn't work with swfdec, and empathy refuses to connect
<tgpraveen1> pitti: whats the error with empathy?
<pitti> tgpraveen1: "legitimation failed"
<tgpraveen1> in the username field in empathy put only username (no @yahoo)
<pitti> oh
<fta> mac_v, imho, the attachment type doesn't really matter, it's most probably its/their size, the bug is in the progress bar drawn by murrine (in cairo), it's a UI bug
<pitti> tgpraveen1: that was it, thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the username bit had me fooled last night
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm mr.ubuntu48@yahoo.de
<mac_v> fta: could you send me such an attachment? i could check
<fta> mac_v, hm, i can't, it's my pro mbox, contracts & bills and stuff
<mac_v> ;)  ok
<mac_v> pitti: would there be a UI to select the authorizations as before?
<jcastro> kenvandine: your latest PPA empathy is solid for me
<pitti> jcastro: it's in -proposed now, too; testing that one is appreciated
<kenvandine> jcastro, woot
<pitti> mac_v: not right now, not sure whether David plans something
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<jcastro> pitti: yeah I've been pounding on it since yesterday and it would have crashed by now
<kenvandine> hey pitti
<kenvandine> jcastro, i really think i have tracked down all the leaks
<pitti> solid for me as well
<kenvandine> at least ones we create :)
<mac_v> yup , /me running the proposed too , empathy looks good :)
<mac_v> pitti: ah , ok , thanks so any bug regarding that would need to be filed upstream , in policykit?
<pitti> mac_v: policykit-gnome, yes; I don't think we'll have time to create one ourselves
<mac_v> :) yeah
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: ^ filing one upstream?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've attached a debdiff to bug 389322 now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389322 in pidgin "Yahoo server authentication changed: Pidgin =<2.5.6 will not connect to Yahoo! servers." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389322
<chrisccoulson> it's a similar size to the Jaunty patch
<pitti> thanks; sponsoring
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> time for some ubuntu-boot crack i think
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ureadahead is great
<pitti> 57 s -> 25 s
<chrisccoulson> i noticed the update there, but i've been aprehensive about updating until now, because my desktop has had a lot of use this week
<chrisccoulson> but now i don't have anything particularly urgent or important to do ;)
<chrisccoulson> so i can afford a little bit of down time if it goes wrong ;)
<tgpraveen> hmm the policykit issue with Nm is becoming clearer, so when i make a new connection and then connect the first time, nm says that it wants to access the keyring and i click always allow.
<tgpraveen> but after that say after i restart then nm sometimes asks me again that it wants to access and that time i have only allow and deny. even this is ok.
<tgpraveen> but after that most of the times nm doesnt ask me at all. and is not able to gain access to the keyring and is not able to connect
<tgpraveen> asac: ^^?
<tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: is there any problem if i install policykit.
<tgpraveen> i dont mind the security risk if all the rest of my system works
<tgpraveen> s/install/uninstall
<pedro_> pitti, may you have a look later to bug 448153 ? basically the metadata is lost after upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 because of the lack of nautilus-convert-metadata binary in our package
<tgpraveen> or is gnome keyring/seahorse?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448153 in nautilus "Folder settings (metadata) lost after upgrade" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448153
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - yes, it will break everything that uses it for querying authorization
<tgpraveen> :-(
<tgpraveen> chrisccoulson:  and do u have any idea or advice for my situation
<chrisccoulson> so, uninstall if you wish, but expect everything to stop working (ie, shutting down / rebooting / connecting to networks etc)
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - yes, adjust your policies locally to suit your needs
<chrisccoulson> by reading the documentation ;)
<tgpraveen> um any gui method exists?
 * tgpraveen crosses fingers
<chrisccoulson> but if you just want the disk to be automounted, then put it in fstab instead
<chrisccoulson> no, there is no UI for adjusting policies anymore, and there probably won't be one, unless someone develops an interest to write one
<pitti> pedro_: oh, we just need to install that? good catch, thanks
<tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: no, not the disk one now. The NM one ^^
<pedro_> pitti, for new upgrades yes, but if you upgraded and executed nautilus you're a bit screw, the workaround is to delete the .nautilus/metafiles/migrated_to_gvfs , but yeah in both cases you need the binary
<chrisccoulson> tgpraveen - if you're asked for a password to unlock your keyring when connecting to wireless networks etc, then that is a local config issue
<chrisccoulson> (ie, your keyring password doesn't match your login password)
<chrisccoulson> by default, the 2 will match, and the keyring unlocks on log in
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, something in my user config is breaking my mouse :-/
<tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: i have a 3g usb modem. and i dont think its a config issue. this is a fresh install of karmic,fully updated. and i tried deleting and recreating the connection in nm many times.
<tgpraveen> and so entered the password many times
<tgpraveen> it connects first time after a new connection is created
<chrisccoulson> i don't know then. it doesn't seem like you're sure which password dialog you're seeing
<tgpraveen> then after restarts causes problems
<chrisccoulson> perhaps you could show me a screenshot
<chrisccoulson> ah, compiz is breaking my mouse
<chrisccoulson> weird
<tgpraveen> chrisccoulson: hmm ok. will ping u next time with the ss
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: restarted and and tried to connect and got this when it tried to connect
<tgpraveen1> http://bayimg.com/aAEffaACK
<tgpraveen1> i entered it and it successfully
<chrisccoulson> so that's for the keyring
<chrisccoulson> that will only occur under 2 conditions:
<chrisccoulson> 1) you're using auto-login
<chrisccoulson> 2) your login password is different from your keyring password
<tgpraveen1> connected. another bug that i stumbled into is that if i stat my computer with the usb modem connected, then nm doesnt autodetect it. ie i have to remove modem and then resinsert then only nm sees it
<tgpraveen1> asac: ^^
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: yes i am on autologin
<chrisccoulson> that is why then
<tgpraveen1> but my password and gnome pasword is same. .
<chrisccoulson> there is currently no way around that
<chrisccoulson> if you're using auto-login, then there is no password to unwrap the keyring
<tgpraveen1> well again in jaunty it  used to connect automatically without asking this from me every ** time
<tgpraveen1> again a change?
<chrisccoulson> this behaviour is not new. there's a known bug for this that has been around for ages
<chrisccoulson> but it's difficult (almost impossible) to solve
 * tgpraveen1 wonders why i didnt run into any of this in jaunty.
<chrisccoulson> did you use auto login in jaunty too?
<tgpraveen1> maybe because of upgrading from hardy->intrepid-> jaunty vs karmic fresh install
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: yes
<chrisccoulson> i don't know why you didn't experience it then, but this behaviour has existed for users using auto login for several releases now, and isn't a new issue
<chrisccoulson> but there's no way around that. you can't unlock the keyring without supplying a password, otherwise it is no better than storing all your passwords in plaintext
<tgpraveen1> chrisccoulson: well they are stored in plain sight anyway if not in plaintext. just go to accessories_> passwords and even with auto login
<tgpraveen1> i can see all the passwords . there is no point of this.
<chrisccoulson> right, they're only visible once the keyring has been unlocked, by displaying a passphrase
<chrisccoulson> the secrets are encrypted on the disk, and are unlocked on login by using your login passphrase
<chrisccoulson> and the keyring is locked again when you lock the screen, or log out
<chrisccoulson> s/by displaying/by providing
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
<tgpraveen1> well i just now tried to access the details for an account in passwords and encryptions which wasnt unlocked and all it did was again throw the dialog of it wants to access
<tgpraveen1> and allow , deny, always allow
<tgpraveen1> no password asked
<chrisccoulson> then it was already unlocked
<chrisccoulson> trust me, if it's locked, it asks for a password
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: did you set the connection to "Available to all users" ?
<chrisccoulson> in fact, if it is locked, you can't even list the secrets that are available, let alone view the contents of them
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: tried. didnt help. and i have a feeling it actually causes mnore problems
<chrisccoulson> anyway, the behaviour you're seeing is normal with auto-login, and there is currently no way around it
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: actually , when i set the available to all users , i dont get prompted for the keyring psswrd
<mac_v> and i auto login , so by the time my session starts ,the connection is already on
<tgpraveen> mac_v: now after u suggested, i again tried available to all users, after taht i got instantly disconnected , reconnecting didnt work ( it want able to ask me for authorization i think)
<mac_v> oh , and i think that the first time i was asked the " allow , deny, always allow" , where i seleted always allow
<mac_v> tgpraveen: yes , that happens when you select the option , it works on the next boot
<mac_v> well thats how it does for me ;)
<tgpraveen> then i tried to edit the account, so as to remove available to all users. now i was asked password to edit also, and upon entering password at this dialog it said i dont have enough priveleges
<tgpraveen> to edit
<tgpraveen> then i tried to delete
<tgpraveen> for which i was again asked apssword and then it successfully deleted and then again i made a new connection
<tgpraveen> mac_v: i seleected always allow also
<tgpraveen> doesnt work
<mac_v> heh , then i must be lucky ;p
 * tgpraveen wonders why LP doesnt have any bugs on this.
<tgpraveen> hmm now again let me try ur method of available to all and restarting computer
<mac_v> tgpraveen: also make sure you have the connect automatically checked
<tgpraveen12> mac_v: tried ur solution completely along with restartinng no go
 * mac_v never been a lucky one \o/ ... ;p
<tgpraveen12> do u use a usb modem?
<tgpraveen12> maybe it is specific to it only
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, pitti - is it normal that ureadahead holds up the boot process for 12 seconds?
<mac_v> tgpraveen:  nope , but the nm doesnt ask for wireless connection
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, it's supposed to do that
<mac_v> for me
<chrisccoulson> there seems to be a burst of disk activity, and then 10 seconds of IO wait with no disk activity
<pitti> chrisccoulson: running things in parallel would just cause disk trashing and be slower than serial access (for rotary disks)
<chrisccoulson> ah, yeah, i have stone-age rotary disks
<chrisccoulson> but my boot time increased by about 8 seconds with ureadahead ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: for me it looks like this: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/karmic-ureadahead.png
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ugh
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i was getting 22 seconds to the greeter before, and now it is over 30
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I have ureadahead reading like mad for 10 seconds, and virtually no I/O afterwards any more
<pitti> chrisccoulson: tell Keybuk :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if it's any consolation, sreadahead increases boot time by 12 seconds for me (compared to no readahead)..
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i have virtually no disk IO after ureadahead has finished too
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: bootchart?
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - one second, i'm just making sure that i'm looking at the right bits first ;)
<Keybuk> also ureadahead --dump in a pastebin plz
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'm looking at the wrong reference points on my 2 bootcharts for comparing where GDM appears
<chrisccoulson> and they're both about the same
<Keybuk> I'd still like to see the charts
<Keybuk> both with sreadahead and ureadahead
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - where would you like me to host them?
<tgpraveen> hmm now the strangest of things happens i install wicd and networkmanager got uninstalled automatically
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: anywhere I can grab them ;)
<chrisccoulson> Keybuk - http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/
<chrisccoulson> i had no idea i could do that ;)
<Keybuk> chrisccoulson: from the chart, it looks like when you profiled, you didn't login in time
<Keybuk> so it hasn't profiled your desktop session
<Keybuk> if you removed /var/lib/ureadahead/pack and rebooted
<Keybuk> logging in quickly
<Keybuk> you might get better results
<chrisccoulson> ah, how long does it give me to log in?
<Keybuk> only 30s or so
<Keybuk> you can tweak /etc/init/ureadahead.conf (line at the bottom)
<chrisccoulson> i'll try it again then. that will only optimise one session though right?
<chrisccoulson> ie, it will speed it up for me
<chrisccoulson> but not for someone else who logs in
<Keybuk> right
<jcastro> Keybuk: is it worth trying ureadahead on my ssd drive or is work for spinning disks?
<Keybuk> jcastro: ssd should give slightly better results than sreadahead
<Keybuk> it makes better traces
<pitti> good night everyone, have a good weekend
<Keybuk> jcastro: but it may be like quarter to half a second
<Keybuk> there's not much else to do with ssd ;)  I/O is not a major problem for them
<jcastro> yeah, heh
<crevette> hi
<crevette> is there problem with archive servers since yesterday? overload?
<chrisccoulson> crevette - karmic release ;)
<chrisccoulson> it will be slow for a few days
<chrisccoulson> i would suggest trying a different mirror
<crevette> okay thanks
<crevette> I was on fr mirror also but same issue :)
<chrisccoulson> crevette - i couldn't even connect to the main archive at all yesterday, or the main UK mirror
<crevette> I would interest to see throughput bandwith :)
<chrisccoulson> crevette - http://ubuntu.retrosnub.co.uk was fast for me yesterday
<crevette> the second try was the right one
<crevette> but at work I was unable to reach archives main and fr
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's pretty slow right now
<chrisccoulson> urgh, gconfd takes 4 seconds to load on my desktop
<crevette> chrisccoulson, dconf ftw ?
<chrisccoulson> indeed:)
<chrisccoulson> 4 seconds is an age ;)
<crevette> apt-cache show dconf
<crevette> hmm, so nice, two software will share the same name
<chrisccoulson> heh, i don't know how we'll work around that
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what the existing dconf package is, or what it does
<crevette> noone cares about legcay dconf, let drop it :)
<crevette> apparently "it collects data the hardware and software configuration of a system"
<chrisccoulson> gaaarrrggghh. a big mouse-shaped hole is going to appear in my monitor soon
<crevette> from my loosy translation fr->en
<chrisccoulson> that looks about right
<albasheers> after installing karmic kola , gnome-disk-utility is saying hard drive is having bad sector but when i re installed ubuntu 9.10  it is not giving me any error, this error is only coming in karmic cola
 * mac_v wonders how karmic *cola* tastes ;p 
<jbarnes> ok finally filed a bug on the hplip/hpijs issue I was seeing
<jbarnes> sucks to not be able to use my photosmart7760 to its fullest
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - you never tasted karmic cola?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: there is really something called that o.0   /me never knew ;)
<mac_v> Amaranth: around?
<mac_v> * debian/patches/029_default_options:
<mac_v>     - turn off unredirect_fullscreen_windows by default again
<Amaranth> yeah?
<mac_v> is this ^ still off by default?
<Amaranth> yep
<mac_v> any bug# for that?
<Amaranth> about a dozen of them, iirc
<mac_v> Amaranth: i meant any bug asking for that to be turned off ? Bug #451907
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451907 in hundredpapercuts "Compiz should not unredirect fullscreen windows by default" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451907
<Amaranth> mac_v: bug 153204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 153204 in compiz "[MASTER] Applications are flickering/flashing in full screen mode" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153204
<Amaranth> that one settings change (and the patch we had to apply to be able to do it) is probably the single biggest improvement for compiz
<mac_v> Amaranth: hmm , so the 451907 is a dupe of the compiz bug?  i was a bit confused , since the user had asked for the setting to be changed in the default but the master bug is for a bug... so what would be the best way ? dup the new papercut bug to the master bug and add the papercut task to the master?
<Amaranth> mac_v: We fixed 153204 by turning that setting off
<Amaranth> so it is a dupe, yes
<chrisccoulson> does anyone here use gwibber?
<mac_v> yup , i got that  , just confirming :)
<mac_v> Amaranth: thanks :)
<mac_v> heh , i was searching for that master bug for nearly 15mins ;)
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: i'm planning to use gwibber... any testing needed?
<chrisccoulson> i was just wondering if anyone knew how to reply to messages
<chrisccoulson> i can't see a text entry box anywhere
<mac_v> oh , i wouldnt know :)
<mac_v> *yet*
<chrisccoulson> maybe i'm just stupid:(
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: are you using for twitter? i can see the entry box when i clikc the reply button
<mac_v> click*
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: there is a slider thing on the bottom you have to pull up
<Amaranth> it seems to start with no size
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - i'm using Facebook
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - i see a combo box at the bottom ("Sending message from:"), with a cross next to it
<chrisccoulson> when i click that, a text entry box appears
<chrisccoulson> that's weird ;)
<chrisccoulson> but it doesn't actually reply to comments. it just adds my comment to my wall, on its own
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: oh, sounds like they changed the UI
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-31
<Amaranth> wow ureadahead takes 20 seconds :/
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - it takes about 11 here
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/bootcharts/
<Amaranth> I'm just glad it works
<Amaranth> total boot time is the same though, it just shows usplash longer than xsplash now
<chrisccoulson> that's the behaviour i see too
<chrisccoulson> xsplash flashes briefly before GDM loads ;)
<hyperair> ....mutter is bloated.
<hyperair> compiz with every plugin enabled doesn't rise above 4% of my memory, and yet here mutter is with 4 workspaces and several windows (no more than i usually have in compiz) taking up 6% of memory
<hyperair> 6% of 2G = 120M
<tjaalton> I can't modify the compiz settings, they are always reset to defaults
<hyperair> probably some gconf failure
<tjaalton> I want to get rid of animation since it breaks some apps, but even if I remove it with gconf-editor, it always pops right back
<tjaalton> no, something is forcing it
<hyperair> animation breaks apps?
<tjaalton> tooltips
<tjaalton> bibble flashes the desktop everytime a tooltip opens
<tjaalton> or a menu
<hyperair> huh?
<tjaalton> what I said
<hyperair> what's bibble, and what's it donig that causes the desktop to flash?
<tjaalton> www.bibblelabs.com
<tjaalton> when I open a menu or a tooltip appears, the desktop flashes on top of the app
<hyperair> it sounds almost like.. dri1?
<hyperair> with 3d, that is
<tjaalton> even with simple-ccsm installed and using "custom" from the appearance capplet..
<mac_v> tjaalton: did you try swtiching this off > /apps/compiz/general/screen0/options/unredirect_fullscreen_windows
<tjaalton> mac_v: thanks, seems to fix it
<tjaalton> and yes, it's a fullscreen app
<hyperair> i thought you couldn't change anything?
<tjaalton> I can't change the plugins
<tjaalton> it always uses the default ones
<tjaalton> so I couldn't remove 'animation' from the list
<mac_v> tjaalton: yeah , thats a sideeffect of that option  :)
<tjaalton> maybe I've set that in the past, the default seems to be off
<tjaalton> bibble5 worked fine until some weeks ago
<tjaalton> anyway, now I can get back to work :)
<albasheers> vlc , mplayer not playing video in karmic kola
<mac_v> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<Omen20> hi is there a way for me to mount a drive thats in XFS>
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-01
<and471> mac_v: is the icon used by the messaging indicator shipped by humanity and if so, which icon is it?
<Gadget3000> Hi. Does anyone know how to get surround sound on wine?
<joaopinto> Gadget3000, the support channel is #ubuntu
<Gadget3000> ty
<savior02> hey peeps quick question: i installed xmonad windows manager on my ubuntu 9.10 than i logged out and chose xmonad instead of gnome manager than logged back in..than it wouldnt boot back to my desktop the screen just hangs..i restarted and restarted recovered and tried some commands i found but still the screen hangs when i try to boot...any ideas?? i would hate to fresh install and lose all my stuff especially my firefox book
<RenatoSilva> why ubuntu is brown? any particular reason?
<RenatoSilva> I ask this because I've erased it from my system a long time ago, but it came back in Karmic with the new GDM which removed my login screen without option to customize
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-01
<kklimonda_> jcastro: ping
<kklimonda_> jcastro: when you have a moment I'd like to talk with you. We got a request from Transmission developer for a quote from someone in Canonical (the more important, the better) about how we use Transmission to distribute Ubuntu. I'm forwarding you the email I got (it was also sent to pr at canonical.com but I don't know if they are the best people to ask about it).
<jcastro> kklimonda_: I've passed it on
<Amaranth> Arg, really need to figure out a time didrocks and me are both online
<micahg> Amaranth: you can try in about 4 hours
<Amaranth> micahg: Yeah, problem is I have to wake up for work 5 hours after that, probably need to be sleeping :P
<micahg> Amaranth: ah, so maybe right before work?
<Amaranth> micahg: Thinking about it
<Sarvatt> RAOF: 20MB was from libdricore?
<rodrigo_> morning
<ari-tczew> hello rodrigo_
<bcurtiswx> what do we start auto-merging from debian?
<bcurtiswx> that is supposed to say when not what :P
<Laney> there are no auto merges
<ari-tczew> bcurtiswx: autosync is closer. merges are manually work.
<bcurtiswx> ok, when does autosync start? O:-)
<ari-tczew> bcurtiswx: it's started a long ago
<ari-tczew> bcurtiswx: what's the problem?
<bcurtiswx> oh, i was thinking it started shortly after UDS.  Thx ari-tczew
<ari-tczew> nope. soon after toolchain fix.
<bcurtiswx> and no problems, i was just wondering
<rodrigo_> hi ari-tczew
<pitti> Good morning
<cyphermox> pitti, good morning\
<pitti> hey cyphermox, made it home in one piece?
<cyphermox> yep. then straight to a halloween party :P
<cyphermox> sadly, there's snow here now :(
<cyphermox> and you?
<pitti> cyphermox: I'm in Cambridge, MA now, for plumber's
<cyphermox> ah, right
<kenvandine> pitti, will SRUs still get synced over to natty? or should I start uploading to both?
<pitti> kenvandine: they will be as long as natty never got an upload of that package
<kenvandine> ok, so it's automatic still?
<pitti> which can in theory happen all the way until release
<kenvandine> so as long as the version number matches don't both?
<pitti> and it does for a lot of packages
<kenvandine> bother?
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> kenvandine: correct
<kenvandine> ok, i just uploaded the humanity SRU
<didrocks> (quick hey during a bank holiday o/)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: how are you? arrived on time and safely?
<didrocks> pitti: hey :) I'm fine thanks. Just had to run at New York, then Paris and finally run to be on time
<didrocks> pitti: because of the flight being delayed of 2 hours in Orlando, just 50 minutes for the connexion in New York has been challenging (knowing that I had to change to another terminal and have the security check again)
<fagan> didrocks: that sounds like a pain
<didrocks> pitti: Same in Paris, delayed, 30 minutes for entering France, 15 minutes for the luggage as it was crowded, then run and arrived 4 minutes before the train quitted.
<didrocks> and finally, as I arrived just on time on Lyon, I've been able to run to take the train to Annecy one hour in advance :)
<didrocks> so free sport! ;)
<didrocks> but all shaped finally nicely
<didrocks> pitti: and you?
<pitti> didrocks: I'm in Cambridge, MA since Sat afternoon
<pitti> it only was a 4 h flight in total, with an 1 h stop in Charlotte
<didrocks> oh, you still had a connexion
<didrocks> pitti: when plumbers start?
<pitti> didrocks: on Wednesday
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<didrocks> pitti: hope you can enjoy the surroundings before then :)
<pitti> I had a nice long walk yesterday
<didrocks> (here, back to a 5Â°C weather :))
<pitti> walking through the MIT campus made me wish I'd be a student again for a year :)
<didrocks> pitti: hehe nice! ;) is that big?
<pitti> quite so
<pitti> I walked through other parts of the city, of course (it's not big enough for a 3 hour walk), but it's still impressive
<gord> anyone noticed that do-release-upgrade doesn't work yet unless you specify -d? i'm rather worried i'll upgrade my media box to natty here ;)
<pitti> and all the pumpkins and fancy costumes :0
<didrocks> pitti: awesome :-)
<Laney> gord: see /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<didrocks> mterry: I saw you changed the Quickly blueprints, thinking about it, the postinst mv won't work if the goal of /opt is to avoid namespace clash (as the files would be in /usr/lib for dpkg and so, it will try to avoid overwrite)
<didrocks> mterry: so, I'll add prefix support to python-central
<gord> Laney, hrm? no, thats not what i am saying. do-release-upgrade thinks that maverick is still the development release for some reason. i'm guessing because its the last value here maybe http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release
<Laney> oh ok
<mterry> didrocks, well, maybe there was some confusion.  I agree that 'postinst' wouldn't work right.  But I thought we had talked about post-install-into-debian/tmp logic in debian/rules.
<didrocks> mterry: oh ok, yeah, I was thinking that you talked about postinst
<didrocks> mterry: I'm fine with that temporary solution then :)
<mterry> didrocks, I may have used the word postinst, but I meant postinstall.  Probably just shut my mouth too quick.  ;)
<mterry> didrocks, that temporary solution assumes that python-support doesn't do anything special (i.e. look for anything in /usr/lib) in postinst.  Do you know if that's true?
<didrocks> mterry: hum, yeah, python-suppotr does the symlinking, hence the fact it won't work then and the fact I assumed postinst
<mterry> didrocks, and was one of the outcomes of the quickly session that LP can already let us upload gpg and ssh keys?  I didn't have whether that was pending or done in my notes
<mterry> didrocks, :(  OK.  So damned if we do, damned if we don't.  I suppose we could also do a bit of symlinking ourselves as part of the hack...
<didrocks> mterry: allow uploads is done (but not in production if I understood correctly). But we still need CoC + ppa creation
<didrocks> mterry: urgh, with .pyc compiling and such? :/ hum, let me have a look tomorrow if I can tweak python-central for supporting prefix
<mterry> didrocks, right, I got those bits in the work item list.  Just wasn't sure about gpg/ssh.  I think I remember that now, though.  curtis said they had landed that day in production
<didrocks> mterry: check through the online API :-)
<mterry> didrocks, ok, so maybe that postinstall hack work item just goes away, leaving your item to make python-central awesomer
<didrocks> mterry: well, 3 WI please, one for python-central, one for dh_python2 and another one for Quickly tweaks (bin/ update and such)
<mterry> didrocks, you're a glutton for work items!
 * didrocks likes details WI as a reminder and avoid last minute "oopppsss" ;)
<didrocks> mterry: not really, just I prefer safety net to my memory ;)
<mterry> didrocks, done
<didrocks> mterry: thanks! :)
<thekorn> hi guys,
<thekorn> hi didrocks, when you have a minute: what do you think about moving bug 663552 back to unity,
<thekorn> as, in my understanding, the reporter is looking for some toggle in the UI to show/hide recently used files
<thekorn> hmm, no bot, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zeitgeist/+bug/663552
<didrocks> thekorn: yeah, sounds good. I was thinking the first message get also some "filtering" request, but it seems it's not the case. Then good to switch it to unity-place-files
<didrocks> please do :)
<thekorn> didrocks: cool, thanks, will do...And now, enjoy your holiday ;)
<didrocks> thekorn: yeah, I should disconnect soon. Thanks! :-)
<LyonJT> Does anyone know how to get a vnc server working on ubuntu-server with ubuntu-desktop installed on it and then use a ssh-tunnel to connect to the vnc-server?
<malte> Hi, I'm trying to port appmenu to Gentoo and I'm stuck on the GTK+ part (I'm not a gentoo developer, nor do I know C, I just like playing around with Gentoo). When I apply the 043_ubuntu_menu_proxy.patch, the build fails with the following error: http://pastebin.ca/1978783 and I can't figure out how to fix it. It would be great if anyone could help me out
<mterry> pitti, thanks for correcting rick's LP name.  Didn't realize he had a goofy one  :)
<pitti> mterry: yw; I usually fix that stuff immediately to stop the WI from spamming me every hour :)
<mterry> malte, it's missing a function Ubuntu adds to GTK+ itself
<mterry> malte, so you'd need to also patch Gentoo's GTK+ to add 'ubuntu_gtk_menu_shell_activate_mnemonic'
<kenvandine> malte, try asking in #ayatana
<devildante> tremolux: around?
<tremolux> devildante: hey!  yep, what's up?
<devildante> tremolux: hi :) can you review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-center/zeitgeist-unused-applications/+merge/39236 ?
<and471> devildante, has mpt_ looked at that?
<devildante> and471: no, I don't think so
<devildante> but you raise a good point, mpt_ should look at it ;)
<and471> devildante, he may want to know about it as well :)
<devildante> mpt_ ^
<and471> hehe you read my mind :)
<devildante> :)
<tremolux> devildante: yes, it will be good to have mpt_'s take
<devildante> 'kay
<devildante> so we wait for him to come, I guess :p
<and471> devildante, don't get me wrong tho, I think it is great work :)
<devildante> heh :)
<tremolux> devildante: sorry for the delay on it;  it's in the queue, we are just back from UDS so we have a bunch of tasks that are taking time early this week
<devildante> no problem :)
<tremolux> devildante: cool  :)
<and471> tremolux, hey, how was UDS?
<tremolux> and471: ah yeah, it was great fun
<and471> tremolux, you don't enthusiastic :P
<and471> *don't sound
<tremolux> and471: haha!  sorry, doesn't come thru well on IRC
<and471> tremolux, hehe I am just teasing
<tremolux> and471: :D
<tremolux> and471: I'm still recovering a bit, trying to organize all of the plans and ideas covered, so much happens during that week
<and471> tremolux, I bet
<tremolux> and471: it was cool to see you in some sessions  :)
<and471> tremolux, yeah I was saying to mpt_ luckily the time zone was not too bad, I could participate in most morning session
<and471> s
<tremolux> and471: sorry for the super-loud coughing in that one session  ;)
<and471> tremolux, hehe, I shall just have to purposefully do it if I ever come to UDS...
<tremolux> and471: still can't figure out what that was, 'cuz we really didn't hear any coughing in the room!
<tremolux> and471: yes!  get your revenge  ;)
<and471> tremolux, yeah it is strange...
<and471> haha
<mpt_> devildante, hi, yes, I hoped to look at it today but ran out of time
<devildante> np ;)
<malte> mterry: I was wondering how I would do that
<malte> kenvandine: thanks, I'll try that
<devildante> seif_: when logging to a file, do we want only the timestamp shown before each line or also a human-readable date?
<devildante> whoops, just noticed I posted to the wrong channel :p
<pitti> TheMuso: gconftool -R /|grep required_components
<pitti> TheMuso: it's the /desktop/gnome/session
<pitti> TheMuso: it's the /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list
<pitti> required_components_list = [windowmanager,filemanager]
<TheMuso> Hey robert_ancell. How was your trip back home?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, long and boring?
<TheMuso> Heh right, but uneventful otherwise I guess.
<TheMuso> .c
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, sure was.  Has plumbers starteD?
<TheMuso> No, starts on Wednesday. Having a mini sprint until then.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-02
<didrocks> good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<didrocks> how was your flight back?
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> my flight was ok, but i have ubuflu now
<didrocks> totally rested and very fine, thanks! :)
<didrocks> urgh
<nigelb> chrisccoulson: ha, ubuflu.  Who's the culprit this time? ;)
<chrisccoulson> not sure, i suppose i could have got it on the flight
<chrisccoulson> i felt rotten yesterday and even worse today
 * nigelb hugs chrisccoulson
 * chrisccoulson hugs nigelb
<didrocks> nigelb: take care, you can catch a cold like this :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<nigelb> didrocks: heh, virtual hugs are virtually safe.
<chrisccoulson> i guess i should start filling out my work items
<chrisccoulson> at least that won't be too difficult today :)
<didrocks> nigelb: you never know :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah!
<nigelb> didrocks: haha, hence the 'virtually' ;)
<didrocks> ;)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I'm fine, thanks! and you?
<rodrigo_> almost a person now, after  day of rest :)
<didrocks> hehe :)
<bryceh> chrisccoulson, I'm convinced the airlines do not sanitize seats or tray tables between flights, and we pick up the sickie germs of whomever was in the seat before us
<nigelb> 300+ geeks in one room and you say no chance of diseases?
<bryceh> nigelb, did I say that?
<seb128> hey
<bryceh> hey
<didrocks> hey seb128! Had a nice flight back home?
<didrocks> hello bryceh :)
<bryceh> hi didrocks
<seb128> hello bryceh didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, yes, and you?
<nigelb> bryceh: well, implied :D
<didrocks> seb128: I had to run at jfk, Paris and Lyon, but free sport isn't bad :)
<nigelb> lol
<seb128> hehehe
<nigelb> didrocks: I almost read that as you 'had a run at jfo' :p
<seb128> I didn't have to run this time
<didrocks> learnt from that trip:
<didrocks> - 50 minutes in jfk to change terminal and have to go through the security again is definitively doable
<didrocks> - 7 minutes to run between terminal 2E and the SNCF train station can also be done :)
<nigelb> lol
<didrocks> each time, I arrived between 2 to 5 minutes before closing boarding :)
<seb128> lucky for you that the airports were small ones
<nigelb> its like your travel agency wants to make sure you're keeping fit
<nigelb> and can manage stress :p
<seb128> one hour for connections don't work in some airports
<didrocks> seb128: jfk is not that small. I just had to force the luck :)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> well, it was initially planned 3hours in jfk and 1h30 half in Paris :)
<didrocks> s/half//
<seb128> I see
<seb128> didrocks, didn't mterry work on the glib update btw?
<seb128> I saw robert_ancell did the update
<didrocks> seb128: I've pushed one to the ppa IIRC
<didrocks> let me check
<didrocks> the gtk was still on my computer as the netbook can't build it
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds <- the glib is in the ppa
<seb128> right, the new gtk is not in maverick
<seb128> didrocks, ok, it should have been uploaded to natty
<seb128> robert_ancell did the work again so now it can just be dropped I guess
<didrocks> seb128: I was thinking we were still focussing on the ppa for the new version
<seb128> gtk3 yes
<seb128> natty has glib 2.27.1
<seb128> or had, it has 2.27.2 now
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> I'll build and push gtk3 in the ppa later today
<seb128> ok thanks
<didrocks> (I think it still needs some .symbol file love)
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> we need to find a way to make sure we don't dup work
<seb128> especially with new team members
<seb128> in new timezones
<didrocks> well, having a glib branch?
<seb128> well I'm not sure why those changes didn't land to the vcs
<didrocks> there is one for gtk3, but didn't find a separate one for glib
<seb128> because glib is trunk
<didrocks> as I was expecting a separate one for the ppa, didn't think it was in natty
<seb128> ok, so misunderstanding
<didrocks> hence the fact I didn't push (and that mterry just sent me a debdiff)
<seb128> no worry
<didrocks> so, should be good then :)
<seb128> well mterry is not in the team
<seb128> I will add it this week though
<seb128> he can't push atm
<didrocks> yeah, sounds good. but most of the time he proposed a branch even when he can't merge, seemed that he was thinking as I, that it would be a separate branchc
<didrocks> branch*
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds is the PPA for gnome 3 stuff then?
<seb128> only the stack
<seb128> we didn't start on applications yet and I don't think we should
<seb128> we probably want to wait a bit for gtk3 abi to stabilize
<seb128> it's not worth the extra work to play catching up with all breakages this early
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, you told me at uds, so I see glib and gtk/gnome-desktop are there already, so what's missing?
<seb128> libcanberra
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, and are you working on it?
<seb128> gsettings-desktop-schemas
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, feel free to work on those if you want
<rodrigo_> ok, cool
<seb128> there is probably some other libs that will be needed later
<seb128> like webkit
<rodrigo_> yes, I'll check that
<seb128> but those are the ones often required and still missing
<rodrigo_> seb128, and are the packages in that PPA in some branch?
<seb128> yes, check the control vcs lines
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, just pick a random vcs url until they land in the archive
<seb128> we can't use the new source name until it's uploaded
<seb128> so I used gtk/ubuntugtk3
<seb128> rather than gtk3/ubuntu
<seb128> I will move it to the right vcs when it's uploaded
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can do the same for canberra, libcanbera/ubuntugtk3
<seb128> or similar
<rodrigo_> hmm, but you mean creating a branch lp:libcanberra/ubuntugtk3, or just use that in the vcs line to fake it?
<seb128> no, use ~rodrigo/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3
<seb128> or similar
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> until it's uploaded
<seb128> then we can switch to the normal lp:libcanberra3/ubuntu
<seb128> but lp:libcanberra3 will be created only when the source is uploaded
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> didrocks, 2.27.1.real?
<seb128> did I screw the 2.27.1 upload or...?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I screwed the first upload, sorry
<didrocks> seb128: for glib, you mean?
<didrocks> seb128: or gtk? (it's in fact 2.27.2 which wasn't changed by mterry)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm currently building it
<seb128> no glib, I was wondering why we had a .real
<didrocks> so it will be 2.27.2-0ubuntu1~build1
<seb128> right, I guess we can just upload robert_ancell's version now
<seb128> for glib
<seb128> ok, waiting for your gtk update
<didrocks> should be there soon. I'm expecting a FTBFS + change the .symbol file + rebuild and then upload
<seb128> ok
<seb128> brb
<huats> morning
<didrocks> hey huats!
<huats> hey didrocks !
<seb128> hey mterry
<mterry> seb128, yo
<huats> mister seb128 hello !
<seb128> mterry, did you IRC during your sleep now? ;-)
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> mterry, it's like a bit before 7am for you or am I doing the maths wrong?
<mterry> seb128, :)  I'm just up early to head into the office.  (few things can drag me in, but free lunch pizza is one of them!)
<seb128> lol
<mterry> seb128, you're right on the math
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seems some people didn't eat enough during UDS :)
<didrocks> hey mterry
<mterry> didrocks, hi  :)
<seb128> nessita, hey
<nessita> hello seb128! how are you?
<seb128> nessita, I'm great, how are you?
<nessita> pretty good! :-)
<seb128> did you have a nice flight back?
<nessita> seb128: yes, pretty good. A few babies cried like they were being killed, but other than that, good
<nessita> seb128: how about you?
<seb128> nessita, I had a nice fly and slept well on sunday
<seb128> I'm back to normal timezone now
<nessita> seb128: very good. That's important
<seb128> there was just an issue with the audio system in the plane though
<seb128> one of the speakers for the announces start doing loid noises
<seb128> they had to reset the audio system
<seb128> it has taken a while
<seb128> they had to call the land guys to know what to do
<rodrigo_> hi nessita
<rodrigo_> btw, in the 2 transatlantic flights I've been thise last week, the video system was linux-based
<nessita> hi rodrigo_!
<seb128> rodrigo_, how did you figure that was the case?
<seb128> the one we had was winCE based
<seb128> (one of the screen was on a scrash screen)
<rodrigo_> seb128, some were rebooting, and I could clearly see the kernel starting messages
<rodrigo_> and a Penguin logo on the terminal :)
<rodrigo_> a tux
<seb128> nice
<rodrigo_> seb128, what airline was that?
<seb128> lufthansa
<rodrigo_> ok, so we should fly on Continental airlines and Aer Lingus (the 2 I flew with) :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> hey asac
<rodrigo_> only "problem" was their chess game, it didn't use gnuchess, so it was somewhat easy to beatit : )
<seb128> mterry, wb
<seb128> mterry, I just added you to ubuntu-desktop on launchpad, enjoy
<mterry> seb128, :) w00t, I'm in ur team, haxing ur PPA
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<seb128> you better be nice, I can revoke team subscriptions ;-)
 * TheMuso waves from Boston.
 * mterry waves back at TheMuso from Boston  :)
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, is there a timeline for gtk+3.0 to be included in the ubuntu repo?
<seb128> ricotz, it's in a ppa
<seb128> but this week in natty
<TheMuso> mterry: :)
<seb128> ricotz, why?
<mterry> didrocks, did my gtk3/glib patches end up working?
 * mterry checks the PPA
<didrocks> mterry: not sure about "working", uploaded to the ppa in any case, yeah :)
<ricotz> seb128, ok, i am just curious since i added it to my ppa which I could drop when it there by default
<mterry> didrocks, I guess, "applying".  I remember there was some oddity and we thought maybe the wrong source had been unpacked
<ricotz> didrocks, hi, there is gtk3 2.91.3 ;)
<didrocks> mterry: yeah, I finished that. I was waiting this morning to build it on a laptop rather than a netbook
<didrocks> ricotz: I know :) just prefered to finish current work first
<ricotz> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> mterry: amd64 seems still failing: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58520011/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.gtk%2B3.0_2.91.2-0ubuntu1~build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ricotz> didrocks, you can look at ricotz/staging
<rodrigo_> seb128, bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~rodrigo-moya/gsettings-desktop-schemas/ubuntugtk3": No such project: gsettings-desktop-schemas
<rodrigo_> seb128, where can I push it?
<didrocks> ricotz: ok, thanks :) I think other people will look at gtk3 before I get some time for it though :)
<mterry> didrocks, hrm, those are new to .2.  I'm assuming that check isn't made on local machines?  i.e. it's unique to buildds?  Because I didn't get that on my amd64
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can use +junk
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> lp:~rodrigo-moya/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas
<didrocks> mterry: I don't know, I didn't have a build log there and I didn't get the issue on i386
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hi, are you working on gnome-themes-standard also?
<mterry> didrocks, the gtk3 devs are so bad about porting their own tests to this-week's-new-API .  Don't know why they expect others to keep up when they can't...
<didrocks> mterry: seb128 is the most knowledgeable on gtk :)
<rodrigo_> ricotz, no, gsettings-desktop-schemas, and after that, libcanberra3
<ricotz> rodrigo_, can you have a look at ppa:ricotz/staging
<rodrigo_> ricotz, yes
<ricotz> rodrigo_, thanks
<cyphermox> good morning!
<rodrigo_> ricotz, ah, cool, already packaged there
<TheMuso> rodrigo_: Afaik libcanberra should only require a rebuild once GTK3 is in the archive.
<TheMuso> Ah sorry no, it needs more than that, but the changes are trivial.
<rodrigo_> TheMuso, hmm, I think it requires gtk3
<seb128> we need 2 builds
<TheMuso> rodrigo_: Yes, thats why I corrected myself.
<seb128> we need a version of the lib for each gtk
<rodrigo_> yes, it does, so a rebuild for gtk3 is needed
<seb128> not only a rebuild
<seb128> the build system need to be changed
<seb128> to ship 2 binaries
<seb128> one for each gtk
<seb128> or we need 2 sources
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<TheMuso> We should be able to do it from the one source.
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: the buildds fail on implicit conversions warnings
<ricotz> seb128, no, just a few more binary packages
<TheMuso> u/c
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: those usually turn to be crashers on 64bit archs
<seb128> so the buildds block those and make the build fail
<ricotz> seb128, it can be build against gtk2 and gtk3 at the same time
<mterry> seb128, right, likely because they dropped some API that the tests used and didn't port them -- I got the same issue with gtk3 2.91.1
<seb128> welcome to gtk world
<seb128> that's why I said we should wait before using it for applications
<didrocks> seb128: it's not triggered by -Wall? why mterry didn't get it locally?
<seb128> it's changing every day right now
<seb128> we don't want to play catch up on the application stack yet
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, what changes?
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, ?
<seb128> gtk3
<Sir_Konrad> ah.
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, sorry, new here. Doing some work for 11.04.
<mterry> didrocks, well, it probably warned about it, just didn't do a failure at the end due to it.  It's not building with -Werror
<rodrigo_> ricotz, do you have those packages in that PPA in branches?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, no, sorry
<ricotz> but it might save you some time
<ricotz> i will be back later
<bilalakhtar> Anyone seen mvo around here lately?
<geekosopher> didrocks: that was superfast with bug 659244! :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 659244 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Tracks synced to iphone won't play (affects: 21) (dups: 3) (heat: 128)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659244
<didrocks> mterry: not does the buildds
<mterry> seb128, well, I can fix the amd64 failure, but I might as well also update to .3 while I'm there (which will likely fix those specific errors anyway).  Is anyone else working on .3?
<didrocks> /s/not/nor
<didrocks> geekosopher: hehe :)
<seb128> mterry, I think didrocks is
<mterry> didrocks, no, but I think the buildd's do a special check at the end for implicit-pointer warnings
<didrocks> geekosopher: I don't have any ipod/iphone to test, I just ensured that rhythmbox is still working
<seb128> bilalakhtar, he has been travelling back from UDS and yesterday was an holiday
<geekosopher> did(rocks) :)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm not, if mterry wants to work on it, welcome :)
<seb128> bilalakhtar, he has a vac day today as well
<bilalakhtar> seb128: Can you sponsor the debdiff on bug #636329 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636329 in gimp (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Gimp: Print preview and printout are blank pages (affects: 31) (dups: 2) (heat: 166)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636329
<bilalakhtar> please :D
<didrocks> mterry: oh something in dpkg-binarymangler?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<seb128> didrocks, no, soyuz
<bilalakhtar> seb128: yes I did
<seb128> bilalakhtar, ok just wait then
<mterry> didrocks, OK, I'll work on .3.  Yeah, I think so.  Because the failure is after the "Finished at 20101102-1222" build message
<bilalakhtar> Thanks thanks!
<seb128> bilalakhtar, people have been travelling back from UDS and are jetlaged and need to catch up today
<seb128> didrocks, mterry: it's a soyuz thing
<didrocks> seb128: oh really? it's parsing the log ouptut at the end? Ok, learnt something new today :)
<seb128> not a dpkg one
<didrocks> same with official buildds?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<seb128> yes
<bilalakhtar> okay, yesterday was a holiday for all the Canonical employees!
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for the explanation :)
<seb128> <seb128> didrocks, mterry: the buildds fail on implicit conversions warnings
<seb128> <seb128> didrocks, mterry: those usually turn to be crashers on 64bit archs
<seb128>  so the buildds block those and make the build fail
<didrocks> I was thinking we had to explicitely use -Wall -Werror for that, nice it's not needed!
<Cimi> ahah, hi guys
<Cimi> I slept 15 hours
<seb128> bilalakhtar, no it was not but it's a national holiday in several european countries
<Cimi> :D
<Cimi> incredible
<seb128> hey Cimi
<bilalakhtar> okay
<Cimi> hi seb!
<Cimi> ciao didier!
<seb128> didrocks, it's very different, the buildd failure is specific to implicit conversions
<seb128> it will not fail on random warnings ;-)
<didrocks> ok, just cherry picked implicit conversion, got it :)
<didrocks> hello Cimi!
<seb128> debian does the same btw
<seb128> didrocks, it's not new, it's doing that for some years
<seb128> weird that never ran into that before ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: apparently I was lucky :)
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> seb128: is there others soyuz trick I should know?
<seb128> mterry, btw no pressure but your gtk upload will land in natty
<seb128> didrocks, I don't think so
<mterry> seb128, :)
<didrocks> seb128: ok :)
<seb128> mterry, I think we are ready for upload there
<mterry> yar, OK.  I will make sure amd64 is all set
<seb128> we can still do a ppa upload first to be sure if you want
<seb128> didrocks, btw the build log end explain the build failure
<seb128> it has a wiki page pointer as well
<didrocks> seb128: the issue wasn't that I don't know about ImplicitPointer conversion. I saw that in my build sometimes (but I always had -Werror -Wall). My concern was "why we get that in the buildd and not locally" :)
<seb128> didrocks, that's explained there as well
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> in the debian wiki pointed
<seb128> anyway all sorted now
<seb128> you will know for the next time ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the quick rb backport btw
<seb128> hey lamalex
<lamalex> good morning seb128
<didrocks> seb128: yw :)
<didrocks> seb128: right, I know for next time, thanks! :)
<didrocks> hey lamalex
<lamalex> hey didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128! get back ok?
<lamalex> seb128, for natty, will we be shipping the gnome-control-center from gtk 3, or the older version- I noticed a lot has changed but I haven't been able to get jhbuild to finish running to test it
 * bilalakhtar makes an attempt to upgrade Empathy
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, yes, you?
<seb128> lamalex, it's not decided yet
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, but i ended up with ubuflu
<bilalakhtar> ubuflu?
<bilalakhtar> Ubuntu flu!
<seb128> lamalex, we will start by updating the platform and deal with softwares are they get ready
<seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
<lamalex> seb128, ok sounds good
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> hey seb128, how are you?
 * pitti waves to chrisccoulson
<didrocks> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> pretty well, thanks
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine, how are you?
 * pitti is on a CD space rampage
<seb128> how was your flight?
<bilalakhtar> Is GTK 3 in natty already?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, no, should be by the end of the week
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<seb128> it's in a ppa
<pitti> seb128: rather short, 4.5 h in total with an hour break in Charlotte
<seb128> pitti, you were on time for your plane I guess?
 * pitti now is looking for someone to review scour in NEW
<bilalakhtar> so I will wait for a week before upgrading Empathy in Ubuntu
<seb128> pitti, I can do
<pitti> seb128: in time to watch two more House episodes :)
<pitti> seb128: security was < 5 min
<seb128> bilalakhtar, we don't want to take GNOME 2.91 updates yet
<pitti> seb128: was it really so bad for you?
<bilalakhtar> seb128: hmm? why?
<seb128> pitti, no, it was one of the shortest security check we had
<pitti> seb128: that'd be awesome; then I could go on with the SVG compression
<pitti> seb128: I'm going to file a MIR for it, perhaps you can put it straight to main?
<seb128> not sure why people told us to be hours in advances
<pitti> (should be fine for main, it's small and harmless)
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> seb128: how's your jetlag?
<didrocks> pitti, seb128: it took at least 50 minutes for dbarth and I just for the security in the morning
<seb128> bilalakhtar, because gtk3 is not stable yet and we don't want to play catching up with abi breakages in the archive
<bilalakhtar> seb128: so when will you begin accepting them?
<seb128> dunno yet, end of year
<seb128> we plan to land the stack first
<seb128> then finish cleaning things to be ready for it
<seb128> build some softwares in a ppa
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<seb128> clean the merges list
<bilalakhtar> thanks for telling me about this
<bilalakhtar> I am working on merges!
<seb128> great
<seb128> pitti, should I send a meeting remindeR?
<pitti> seb128: oh, if you could, thanks
<seb128> pitti, ok, doing that
<mterry> Are people running natty yet?
<pitti> mterry: o/
<pitti> works fine here
<pitti> *suspiciously* fine
<pitti> the only thing that broke for me after the upgrade was calibre
<pitti> and that's already fixed
<mterry> pitti, alright, I'll try too
<seb128> mterry, I've a mix, I do have it in my source and apt-get install what I need
<seb128> so it's progressive updates
<mterry> seb128, too practical!  :)
<seb128> ;-)
<cyphermox> mterry: aside from things not building anymore, natty runs fine ;)
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> pitti, you signed for 52 work items already? ;-)
<seb128> rather 58 with 6 done
<pitti> seb128: well, Perl elimination is a lot of work..
<pitti> I just exploded the list of what's needed there
<pitti> instead of just one huge "fix 'em all"
<pitti> easier for keeping track
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: I did two unperlizations to get the feeling for it
<pitti> but I want to start with the binarymangler-ish ones first
<pitti> seb128: dh_scour works well now :)
<pitti> seb128: oh, btw
<seb128> pitti, "Drop evolution-couchdb from default install, which drops couchdb and erlang (6.7 MB)"
<seb128> was that decided?
<seb128> I though that was the first option if we need space
<pitti> seb128: as an option when it's still not enough
<seb128> but we would do only if space needed
<pitti> seb128: so this one can easily be dropped if we get enough through other means
<seb128> ok, seems you freaked the u1 guys out
<seb128> Chipaca pinged me about that
<seb128> you might want to clarify it's a backup solution
<seb128> and not a made decision
<pitti> seb128: *clickyclicky* better no?
<pitti> now?
<seb128> pitti, yes, thank you!
 * pitti hugs seb128 for early spec review
 * seb128 hugs pitti for early spec work start
<pitti> seb128: btw, I noticed that yesterday: Remove changelog.gz in pkgbinarymangler (17 MB): DONE
<pitti> seb128: I wasn't aware that we still had so many upstream changelogs :)
 * pitti does the CD space dance
<didrocks> can someone accept those for natty so that it's shown in the WI tracker:
<didrocks> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-unity-compiz
<pitti> didrocks: will do
<didrocks> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> pitti: and congrats for the changelog.gz murder :)
<Laney> hiya
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<pitti> hey Laney, how's it going?
<Laney> just about over the jet lag :)
<Laney> can someone merge lp:~laney/+junk/tomboy for me?
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, ok
<seb128> Laney, can't you do that yourself?
<Laney> i'm not in ~ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> well if you have upload rights you have commit rights
<seb128> it subteam from main uploaders
<Laney> no i only have package set upload
<Laney> doesn't give team bzr commit
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> I though you had main upload rights
<Laney> only to the important parts :P
<seb128> pitti, bsd sources can be shipped under the apache license?
<seb128> (just checking, I'm not sure about non common cases)
<seb128> pitti, you probably want to define a license for the debian directory in the copyright?
<seb128> otherwise scour seems fine to me
<pitti> seb128: no, that one source file is bsd, rest is apache
<pitti> seb128: "Files: *" should include debian/, though?
<seb128> good point
<pitti> seb128: my intention was to ship the packaging under the same license, i. e. apache
<pitti> just in case I ever write something (like a test suite) which should go upstream
<seb128> pitti, NEWed
<pitti> as I did for optipng
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> cheers
<seb128> bah I forgot to promote it
<seb128> I will do that when I new the binaries later
<pitti> seb128: I'll file an MIR now
<rodrigo_> hmm, has anything changed related to the debian/*.install files?
<rodrigo_> if I add a subpackage (-dev) and 2 .install files, it just adds the docs to both packages
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, why?
<seb128> can you push you work somewhere?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, one minute
<didrocks> bbiab, need to do some errands
<seb128> didrocks, see you
<rodrigo_> seb128, lp:~rodrigo-moya/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, checking that
<rodrigo_> seb128, no hurry, I'm off for lunch now, so take your time :-)
 * pitti chuckles on the graph on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html -- clearly we had an UDS :)
<seb128> pitti, it's suprising that we have so much green already there
<pitti> seb128: well, some specs were carried over from maverick
<pitti> explains why mvo is already at 100% :)
<Sir_Konrad> ok so we can transfer songs to an iPod Touch on Ubuntu, but they don't appear in the iPod app.
<seb128> ;-)
<Sir_Konrad> can anyone confirm this?
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, bug #659244
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 659244 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Tracks synced to iphone won't play (affects: 21) (dups: 3) (heat: 128)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659244
<seb128> ?
<seb128> it might be fixed by that sru
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, probably it. I'm going to try working on this bug. Hopefully I might have it fixed for jailbroken ones by the time of 11.04...
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, it's already fixed?
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, we will use banshee as default music player this cycle
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, it might yes
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, ok I'll be looking into it. If it's not fixed I'll see if I can help out.
<seb128> ok thank you
<seb128> try 0.13.2 to start
<seb128> I will do the update for natty today
<seb128> if you want to wait
<Sir_Konrad> Rhythmbox 0.13.2 seb128?
<seb128> yes
<Sir_Konrad> ok.
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, see comment #15 on the bug
<seb128> rodrigo_, you named the files gsettings-desktop-schemas
<seb128> rodrigo_, with "ttt", 3 t
<seb128> rodrigo_, typo ;-)
<Sir_Konrad> ok seb128, looking into it. :)
<pitti> seb128: scour is in binNEW; I'll promote the source to main
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: do you have a sec to review?
 * pitti prepares cdbs integration
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> seb128: MIR is filed, FTR
<seb128> pitti, doing that
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to promote those as well?
 * pitti hugs seb128, sorry for bothering you wit hthat
<pitti> seb128: please
<pitti> I metioned in the MIR that it got pre-promoted
<seb128> pitti, no worry, I will make you pay back this week
<pitti> it's easy to revert
<seb128> once gtk3 lands ;-)
<pitti> heh, yes
<seb128> pitti, binaries out of binNEW to main now
<pitti> *hug*
<seb128> *hug* back ;-)
 * pitti runs a storm attack on SVGs
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, rhythmbox 0.13.2 isn't into the default Ubuntu repos yet.
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, right, upstream just rolled the tarball
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: OOI, do you like playing wesnoth? :)
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, I will try to do the update today
<Sir_Konrad> pitti, yeah used to be a huge wesnoth gamer. :P
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: explains your nick
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, you're going to put it into the repo?
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, in natty
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, but I can put it in a ppa for maverick if you want
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, oh ok. can you put it into lucid?
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> the lucid glib is not recent enough to build it
<Sir_Konrad> ah...
<Sir_Konrad> I'm probably going to have tp update to Maverick.
<mterry> seb128, in this gtk3 .3 update, I want to just use dh_autoreconf instead of updating this darn 070-mandatory-autoreconf.patch every time.  Is there any reason not to?
<seb128> mterry, no
<seb128> just it's not as easy with other sources
<seb128> it's an old debhelper source and the rules do several builds
<seb128> so you can't only include the autoreconf rules
<mterry> seb128, yeah.  I'm inserting a dh_autoreconf after patching (as it only needs to be done once, AFAIK) and the dh_autoreconf_clean right before the dh_clean call
<seb128> seems alright
<seb128> if that work great, the autoreconf patch is driving me nuts as well
<mterry> :)
 * kenvandine hates all of those autoreconf patches 
<Laney> dh_autoreconf â¥
<pitti> our meeting today is still 1600 UTC, right?
<seb128> I've to check on dh-autoreconf though
<seb128> pitti, 16:30utc
<pitti> erm, right
<seb128> pitti, in 2:30
<pitti> $ date -u
<pitti> Di 2. Nov 14:03:21 UTC 2010
<pitti> right
<seb128> 2:26 ;-)
 * mterry wishes the world ran on UTC time
<seb128> I need to check on dh-autoreconf
<kenvandine> indeed
<seb128> I've the feeling some of the builds run twice
<Sir_Konrad> pitti, meeting is at 1600UTC?
<seb128> or at least configure runs twice
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: no, 1630
<Sir_Konrad> pitti, ok.
<Laney> dh-autoreconf takes care of cleaning, so double builds shouldn't be a problem
<seb128> not sure why though
<mterry> seb128, they do do multiple configure runs.  But I didn't think we needed multiple dh_autoreconf calls
<Sir_Konrad> Let me figure out what time that is in my time zone pitti. :P
<seb128> Laney, mterry: no, I mean simple things like gnome-utils
<seb128> dh-autoreconf make them configure twice
<pitti> seb128: date -d '16:30 UTC'
<pitti> sorry, Sir_Konrad ^
<seb128> not sure if they build twice
<Sir_Konrad> pitti, what?
<seb128> but I can see the build finish and configure run again
<seb128> which doesn't happen when they have an autoreconf patch
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: that will give you the meeting time in your local time
<seb128> rather than using the autoreconf rules
<Laney> weird
<Sir_Konrad> ah.
<Sir_Konrad> thanks. :P
<Laney> it just runs autoreconf -f -i
<Sir_Konrad> Hmm... I dunno if I'll be able to attend. :\
<Sir_Konrad> Can I get a recap later on? :D
<seb128> logs are public and online
<seb128> you can find them on the wiki page after the meeting usually
<Sir_Konrad> ok.
<didrocks> pitti: when you have some time, any idea why I get only one blueprint on the list and not others even if I updated them this morning? (see http://paste.ubuntu.com/524441/)
<seb128> didrocks, which ones are missing?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> checking
<seb128> didrocks, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback
<seb128> you need to assign it to you
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-unity-compiz
<seb128> same
<seb128> not sure why https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-bringing-desktop-and-netbook-image-closer is not
<didrocks> not really my spec for those 2 fist, but I was thinking that the WI tracker will take as I have actions on them
<seb128> try deleting the empty line bellow "work items:"
<pitti> didrocks: what seb128 says
<pitti> the WI block must be one paragraph
<pitti> since you can have other stuff around it
<didrocks> pitti: oh right, sorry for that :)
<didrocks> but for the first two? it should be an assignee, even if it's not me, isn't it?
<didrocks> and for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-oneconf, any clue?
<didrocks> should be accepted to natty I guess
<pitti> didrocks: ^ done
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> just need to confirm who should be assignee on the two first spec, but dbarth is away today
<mterry> seb128, OK, I have a gtk3 package that built successfully in my personal natty PPA (and uses dh-autoreconf).  I'll update the ubuntugtk3 branch shortly.  Should I push to the GNOME3 PPA or natty?
<mterry> Hmm, how do I prevent .bzr-builddeb/default.conf from showing up as a local change to the package?
<didrocks> mterry: do you use bzr bd -S ?
<mterry> didrocks, oh, that would probably be wise.  I was doing debuild
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> mterry, you can probably push to both
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner
<seb128> mterry, do a maverick upload in the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> mterry, we will keep that a backport for people doing gtk3 cleaning still on maverick
<mterry> seb128, k
<seb128> mterry, maybe wait for tomorrow in natty, I will do another round of checking today to make sure we are on shape
<mterry> sure
<ricotz> seb128, i hope the natty gtk3 package will include introspection?
<seb128> ricotz, it will
<ricotz> good :)
<seb128> mterry, is the current version doing that? ;-)
<seb128> I turned it on and off during the previous weeks
<mterry> heh, let me check
<seb128> build was failing with gir 0.9.3
<ricotz> it builds fine with 0.9.12
<seb128> I commented on the binary in the control and the rules changes
<seb128> ricotz, right, I got it to build fine locally
<seb128> but the ppa has maverick builds as well
<didrocks> morning jasoncwarner
<mterry> seb128, nope, still commented out
<ricotz> seb128, maverick wont work of course, but natty needs to have it
<seb128> mterry, ok, so we need to turn that on before going to natty
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> mterry, I can fix that and upload later today or tomorrow
<seb128> mterry, or do you want to do it?
<seb128> ricotz, "needs"?
<seb128> ricotz, nothing require it yet so no hurry
<mterry> seb128, I can do it whenever we decide to push to natty
<seb128> but we will have it at some point sure
<seb128> mterry, well goal is to land that to natty this week
<seb128> I would say later today or tomorrow
<ricotz> seb128, gnome-shell needs it, or i need to ship an extra package :(
<mterry> seb128, right, that's the timeframe I meant too
<seb128> mterry,
<seb128> -#	dh_girepository -pgir1.0-gtk-3.0
<seb128> +	dh_girepository -pgir1.0-gtk-3.0
<seb128> -			--enable-introspection=no \
<seb128> +			--enable-introspection=yes \
<seb128> gir1.0-gtk-3.0 needs to be in the BINARY_ARCH_PKGS list
<ricotz> and drop the gir patch
<seb128> uncomment the binary in control and the typelib .install
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: morning!
<seb128> mterry, ^ basically what you need
<mterry> :) ok
<mterry> thx
<seb128> np
<seb128> jasoncwarner, thanks for ignoring pitti and me hellos ;-)
<didrocks> ("continue to ignore" +1 penalty card :-))
<chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner!
<Sir_Konrad> ok guys, I'm going to beat it for now. Be back later. ;)
<rickspencer3> pitti, good morning
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, bye
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey
<Sir_Konrad> see ya later seb128. :)
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks, seb128, etc...
<seb128> rickspencer3, did you make home fine?
<rickspencer3> seb128, iou
<seb128> oui ;-)
<pitti> bonjour rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, bien :-)
<rickspencer3> mon voyage (eeer, don;'t know how to say "was") tres facile
<didrocks> Ã©tait
<didrocks> good to hear :)
<rickspencer3> seb128, et tu?
<seb128> "toi"
<seb128> j'ai bien voyagÃ©
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> chouette
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> j'ai dormis un peu dans l'avion
<rickspencer3> didrocks, comment est Leon?
<didrocks> "Lyon" (Leon is a first name btw :))
<rickspencer3> </Abusing French>
<didrocks> rickspencer3: je suis encore Ã  Annecy, je dÃ©mÃ©nage Ã  Lyon dÃ©but dÃ©cembre
<rickspencer3> didrocks, ah, oui
<rickspencer3> pitti, do you have a schedule for blueprints between now and Feature Definition Freeze?
<rickspencer3> avez-vous un schedule?
<rickspencer3> hehe
<pitti> rickspencer3: our plan was to have the list of specs nailed down by today's meeting, and WIs settled by next Tuesday
<rickspencer3> aggressive
<pitti> I know :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, with plumbers this week, seems a bit hard to nail that down across the board
<pitti> but feasible IMHO, given that we don't have that many specs this cycle
<seb128> I will cover for pitti
<seb128> or rather help
<pitti> rickspencer3: I already got mine written up
<seb128> I don't think anybody else is at plumbers in our team
<pitti> all pending approval
<rickspencer3> yeah, I'm thinking of all the teams, though
<seb128> so plumbers should not impact on the team
<pitti> and I can do some reviews during the week
<seb128> I think the "this week" was for desktop
<pitti> rickspencer3: oh, this is just for desktop
<seb128> not sure what other teams plan to do
<rickspencer3> right, understood
<pitti> rickspencer3: if other teams need more time, that's up to them from my POV
<rickspencer3> in the past, the Desktop team set the pace, so I was going to try to align everyone around the desktop schedule
<pitti> but I didn't ask people to write complex wiki documents, etc.
<rickspencer3> however, I think that other teams may need 1 more week
<pitti> we did that in the past, but the reason for that is pretty obsolete IMHO
<seb128> pitti, imho we should stop doing that
<seb128> we didn't really last cycle
<pitti> I know, and on purpose
<rickspencer3> pitti, how do you know if you have the "list of specs"? do you set the blueprints with some attribute?
<seb128> what we care about is a summary and workitems imho
<pitti> we also didn't for lucid
<pitti> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop
<pitti> (minus some noise there from ols/dx)
<rickspencer3> pitti, but do you set them as "Accepted" or so?
<pitti> rickspencer3: I target them to natty
<rickspencer3> Or is it that they are assigned?
<pitti> and they need an assignee in the desktop team
<rickspencer3> So, series goal = Natty
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> but for above list, targetting to Natty is the critical point
<rickspencer3> and probably should have an assignee
<pitti> yep
<pitti> Jason and I went through and made sure that all of them have people assigned and a priority
<rickspencer3> ok, I think having teams have that by next Thursday, and then have work items the following Thursday is reasonable
<rickspencer3> I'll discuss with the other Engineering Managers
<rickspencer3> thanks all!
<pitti> cheers
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, hi
<jasoncwarner> tkamppeter: good morning (or afternoon)
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: As for bug #533652, what do you think would be the proper way to fix? The bug is about removing the cancel button, but you made an attempt to reduce the timeout duration
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 533652 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "critically low battery dialog "cancel" button is meaningless (affects: 8) (heat: 61)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533652
<bilalakhtar> Can I work on removing the cancel button? Currently the bug is assigned to you, since the last few months
<chrisccoulson> bilalakhtar, the issue is that notify-osd is displaying the fallback alert
<chrisccoulson> g-p-m is not adding a cancel button
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: so notify-osd is displaying that?
<chrisccoulson> yes
<bilalakhtar> how come!
<bilalakhtar> yup, its true
<bilalakhtar> But shouldn't it display that in a bubble?
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: ^
<chrisccoulson> yes
<bilalakhtar> so did you revert the change in the package later on?
<chrisccoulson> bilalakhtar, just looking
<bilalakhtar> thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, didn't see the typo!!
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: yes, I saw, you removed it
<bilalakhtar> it went upstream
<seb128> rodrigo_, wb ;-)
<bilalakhtar> *reportedly*
<seb128> rodrigo_, hehe, I didn't spot it immediatly either
<chrisccoulson> it should never have gone upstream, it's ubuntu specific
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i can see the issue
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: thanks, I know how to fix it now
<rodrigo_> seb128, that's why sometimes it's better to have someone look at the code, I looked everywhere but at the file names :)
<chrisccoulson> bilalakhtar, it's ok, already fixed ;)
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: But can't we have a bubble instead? why get notify-osd to display that dialog?
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson: it isn't fixed, the upstream bug was closed as NOTGNOME
<chrisccoulson> bilalakhtar, i mean, already fixed here
<bilalakhtar> thanks, go ahead
<bilalakhtar> I mean, go ahead with your work, I disturbed you quite much :D
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, packages build great now, thanks for spotting it!
<rodrigo_> seb128, should I upload to the PPA?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> do you have access to it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, not sure, let me try
<bilalakhtar> seb128: I want to get a GTK bug fixed, should I work on ubuntugtk3 branch or normal ~ubuntu-desktop one?
<seb128> what bug?
<seb128> I would say normal gtk
<seb128> you probably want it fixed in gtk2
<seb128> gtk3 is not really used yet
<bilalakhtar> hmm, oka
<bilalakhtar> Its a tiny bug
<bilalakhtar> bug #611011
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 611011 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Printing to File should go to $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR instead of $HOME (affects: 2) (heat: 38)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611011
<seb128> the patch if you get one will probably apply to both series
<seb128> but better to work on upstream code and get it upstream
<seb128> so it will go back in the archive with the next update
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, yes, I guess that looks a nice upstream fix
<bilalakhtar> hmmmm
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: will forward it upstream, then wait if they accept it soon, else go ahead and poke a sponsor here
<rodrigo_> seb128, Rejected:
<rodrigo_> Signer has no upload rights to this PPA.
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, yes, GTK developers might not answer too quick now, as they have a full load of work
<bilalakhtar> hmm, GTK source uncompressed is HUGE!
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, so, what I'd do is to file the patch in bugzilla.gnome.org, add it to our packages, and then remove it from the packages when it goes upstream
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: that's what I would do definitely, thanks
<ricotz> bilalakhtar, if it is an easy and understandable patch which you have got as git-patch you could try promoting it on irc
<rodrigo_> yeah, also
 * bilalakhtar has a lot of experience creating patches with git and running behind GNOME devs
<bilalakhtar> Rhythmbox, Empathy, Nautilus, I have patched them all
<rodrigo_> yeah, some patches from you are in upstream! :)
<seb128> re
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, not sure if you saw my message, but yeah, no permissions for that PPA
<seb128> I saw and added you to the team now
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, that gives you right to push to all desktop packages as well
 * rodrigo_ dput's
<seb128> but no upload rights to the archive
<rodrigo_> so, I can break everything!!!
<seb128> rodrigo_, we usually don't give commit access before some reviews
<seb128> right
<rodrigo_> ok :)
<rodrigo_> so, I can push to the ~ubuntu-desktop branches now?
<seb128> which was going to be my point, please ask for review before touching main archive components
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, but you always go via merge proposals rather than pushing directly?
<seb128> but feel free to commit on new components you work on
<seb128> or things you usually maintain, tomboy, etc
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> for the others, I'll send merge proposals
<seb128> well if you are unsure just go with merge proposed for a bit
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> it's likely that after a while we will tell you to just commit
<seb128> but we usually wait until we are confident you don't do errors
<seb128> I just gave you access now because it will make things easier for gtk3
<seb128> you have access to the ppa and new sources this way
<seb128> ok?
<rodrigo_> yeah, right, I don't want to break anything
<seb128> if you are unsure just ask on the channel
<bilalakhtar> XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR doesn't exist usually in the system, then how should the system find the document directory?
<bilalakhtar> Should it default to $HOME/Documents?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, gsettings-desktop-schemas is in the PPA now
<rodrigo_> ricotz, ^^ if you can have a try at it when it's available in the PPA, that would be great
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: it depends on ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs for the locale handling
<bilalakhtar> thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, great ;-)
<ricotz> rodrigo_, the version string doesnt look right
<rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, why?
<ricotz> should be something like 0.1.0-0ubuntu1
<rodrigo_> ah, right
<ricotz> and add an ~maverick1 or something
<ricotz> rodrigo_,  ^ so it doesnt conflict with the natty upload
<rodrigo_> yeah, doing a new upload now with the version changed
<micahg> ricotz: ~maverick1 is for official backports, it should be something like ~maverick~ppa1 unless it's an official developer backport
<rodrigo_> ricotz, so, 01.0-0ubuntu1~maverick~ppa1 ?
<ricotz> micahg, yeah :P, just wanted to give an exampel
<rodrigo_> 0.1.0-0ubuntu1~maverick~ppa1
<ricotz> rodrigo_, yes
<Riddell> what's the Ubuntu Desktop equivalent of "your battery's dying, suspending in 30s, click here to cancel" ?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, you might want to upload a 0.1.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1 to the natty pocket
<pitti> ricotz: we don't have a "cancel", but otherwise that's done by gnome-power-manager
<ricotz> Riddell, ^
<jcastro> didrocks: can you idle in #banshee from now on?
<didrocks> jcastro: I'm idling already :)
<jcastro> didrocks: also, they started putting together bugs they need to work on for our transition
<rodrigo_> ricotz, btw, is it safe to install the packages from your PPA in a maverick install?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, that is, there is no glib API changes that might affect other apps, right?
 * rodrigo_ just created a virtual machine to test the gnome3-builds ppa
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i havent tested this and i wouldnt recommend it
<rodrigo_> ricotz, ok
<rodrigo_> hmm, is the desktop meeting in 10 minutes, or in 1 hour 10 minutes? evolution just showed me a reminder that it's in 10 minutes, but it used to be at 6:30 my time
<mterry> 10 min
<soren> rodrigo_: Lots of places moved away from DST this weekend.
<micahg> 16:30 UTC is in 10 minutes
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<jasoncwarner> 16:30 UTC. Everyone here?
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-02
 * tremolux waves
<didrocks> o/
<pitti> o/
 * kenvandine waves
 * TheMuso is here.
 * rodrigo_ is here
<seb128> hey jcastro
<seb128> ups
<mterry> o/
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner
<jasoncwarner> Ok. I guess we can get started!
 * pitti gets spammed with more errors in WI definitions -- thanks everyone for being quick with drafting!
<kenvandine> :)
 * pitti checks previous actions in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-10-19 -- painfully slow network here
<tkamppeter> hi
<jasoncwarner> Ok, so as I understand post UDS schedules, we should be targeting today as the day we get the blueprints targeted to Natty, is that correct?
<pitti> so, no outstanding actions AFAICS
<jasoncwarner> Oh, I was corrected as well. First order of business
<pitti> I already sent a reminder about this last Friday
<jasoncwarner> We need to welcome rodrigo to the desktop team!
<kenvandine> welcome rodrigo_!
<pitti> basically, is everyone happy with the priorities and the spec list in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop ?
<tremolux> hey rodrigo_ !
 * pitti hugs rodrigo_, welcome!
<rodrigo_> hi all!!
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_ ;)
<rodrigo_> thank you, really happy to be on this team
<seb128> rodrigo_, welcome!
<didrocks> pitti: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback should be essential, but it's not my spec and I can't change
<pitti> didrocks: done
<bryceh> welcome rodrigo_!
<didrocks> thanks :)
<mterry> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-developer-manual should be targetted for natty, but I can't change that
<mterry> rodrigo_, hihi
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-oneconf also is new on the list -> Low? (didrocks <-)
<cassidy> bigon, didrocks, seb128, kenvandine : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/663535
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663535 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Extreme poor Video Quality in Empathy (jabber) (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> mterry: done
<cassidy> would be nice to fix this in Maverick
<mterry> pitti, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: low sounds good
<seb128> cassidy, hey, thanks, will look after the metting
<pitti> mterry, rickspencer3: rick as approver is deliberate?
<kenvandine> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-geoclue
<kenvandine> should be targeted
<mterry> pitti, I'm not sure.  What are the implications of that?
<pitti> mterry: as long as rickspencer3 is happy to do that, that's fine
<pitti> certainly he has a particular interest in that subject :)
<bigon> cassidy: option A) is the best I guess?
<mterry> pitti, I can follow up with him about it
<pitti> kenvandine: are we really going to do that for natty?
<cassidy> bigon, yeah
<kenvandine> pitti, that was the plan
<kenvandine> pitti, in a small way :)
<pitti> kenvandine: that was already targetted to lucid/m and we postponed because it wasn't ready yet?
<kenvandine> indicator-datetime needs it
<pitti> kenvandine: 'k
<kenvandine> it is ready
<kenvandine> but we are going in very low key... simple even
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> maybe set it to jasoncwarner?
<pitti> kenvandine: is that medium or high? i. e. if it turns out to be broken, do we throw resources at it to fix it or drop it?
<seb128> pitti, it's low or medium
<seb128> it's a nice to have but we can opt that out easily
<pitti> jasoncwarner: (sorry for 0wning the meeting ATM, please tell me to STFU if you want to talk about something else first)
<pitti> seb128: ack
<seb128> it's just a "do you want to change your timezone"
<seb128> if you travel
<kenvandine> low
<kenvandine> and minimal work
<pitti> cute
<kenvandine> the package is in good condition
<pitti> I agree to Low, folks can change it in the panel
<kenvandine> just need to upload ubuntu-geoip and indicator-datetime
<seb128> pitti, you can set me as approver if you want
<kenvandine> the rest of the "must haves" there is IS :)
<seb128> not sure if jasoncwarner wants to approve specs yet
<pitti> rickspencer3: reviwing the book? didrocks as approver then, perhaps?
<seb128> or if he still needs some time to get used to our workflow etc for now
<pitti> seb128: you are already, sounds fine
<rickspencer3> pitti, oh? for the book, I can stay approver, whatever
<pitti> seb128: well, spec review is a typical tech lead responsibility
<rodrigo_> who is the tech lead?
<pitti> the targetting/milestone planning is more of a project mgmt thing, and thus we should all do that (with Jason driving)
<pitti> rodrigo_: I guess me again, now that I'm back; unless seb128 wants to keep it :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, pitti
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> pitti, (meeting on friday 6pm are yours :p)
<pitti> seb128: \o/
<rodrigo_> hehe
<kenvandine> hehe
<didrocks> ahah :)
<tremolux> haha
<TheMuso> heh
<kenvandine> seb128, you did a great job :)
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks ;-)
<pitti> with me being in ~ubuntu-release it actually makes sense for me to track our release state, that's fine
 * pitti hugs seb128 for being an great TL last cycle
 * tremolux applauds seb128
 * rodrigo_ applauds too
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> thanks everybody
 * didrocks hugs seb128 as well :)
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> I will still watch on desktop and dx don't worry
<kenvandine> of course :)
<seb128> no whip but I can still assign bugs :p
<kenvandine> seb128 always sees all
 * didrocks hopes that his back with all the scars will disappear soon :)
<pitti> so, everyone else happy with their assigned specs for natty and their priorities?
<TheMuso> lol
 * pitti tries to imagine didrocks without a back
<didrocks> pitti: :p
<kenvandine> haha
<TheMuso> lol
<pitti> aaanyway
<pitti> so, we would like to try and be aggressive with getting our WIs ready for this cycle
<rodrigo_> I have no blueprints assigned, although at UDS I talked about me working on a few of them, I guess that's ok, the assignee is the 'driver'?
<pitti> since we don't have that many BPs this time (yay), I think it sohld be feasible for everyone to get the WIs on their drafted specs ready this week, and set it to "pending approval"
<pitti> objections?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah, you may just get work items from other blueprints
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> pitti, seems fine
<kenvandine> pitti, wfm, i think i have them all done already :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: "drafter" is responsible for leading the UDS session, keeping notes, and expanding into work items and documentation; assignee does the implementation
<pitti> rodrigo_: in a lot of cases that's one and the same person, of course
<didrocks> pitti: apart from WI, as we discussed that we don't want anymore wiki page, what do we need to fill in the dashboard for you to approve the spec?
<pitti> rodrigo_: so you'll probably earn some WIs from other people's specs
<pitti> for review I need
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok then
<pitti> - a detailled enough description to state problem, rationale, and approach to solution
<pitti> - assignee in the desktop team
<pitti> - work items must be clear and complete
<seb128> \o/ on no wiki
 * didrocks +1 on \o/ no wiki
<pitti> IF the spec is so complex that it needs lots of explanation, feel free to link a wiki page
<mterry> Wait, you don't want wiki links for blueprints?
<pitti> but for most specs it shouldn't be required
<pitti> mterry: well, s/want/require/
<seb128> (I was not sure if somebody would complain about me not asking for wiki summary last cycle)
<seb128> (nice to see that others agree)
<pitti> mterry: many specs are sufficiently well described in terms of detailled WIs
<kenvandine> mterry, let me guess, you already drafted wiki pages?
<seb128> mterry, we just hate paperwork where it'sn not required ;-)
<pitti> if I may quote my own spec, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/performance-desktop-n-install-footprint has 56 WIs and clearly states "GOAL" and extra notes
<bryceh> wow, no wiki writeups?  interesting
<mterry> kenvandine, :)
<pitti> bryceh: as I said, if you want them as documentation or explanation, please do them
<pitti> If a spec is not clear enough, I'll certainly follow up and complain :)
<bryceh> fair enough :-)
 * kenvandine just wishes the whiteboards in blueprints used wiki formating :/
<kenvandine> or some kind of formating
<pitti> one request: to allow me to sensibly track the status, please do set the status to "PENDING APPROVAL" once you are done with it and want a review
<pitti> I WON'T look at specs in "drafting"
<chrisccoulson> oops, meeting time :/
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> ok, cool
<kenvandine> hey chrisccoulson, i think we are done, just assigned all the specs to you :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<pitti> anything more on specs from anyone?
<chrisccoulson> thanks \o/
 * pitti hands back mike to jasoncwarner for going on with the agenda
<TheMuso> u/c
<jasoncwarner> pitti: thanks
<jasoncwarner> that was much crisper than if I had one that ;)
<pitti> (I guess there's not much of a partner update at this early stage)
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> planning planning planning
<kenvandine> moving along :)
<jasoncwarner> So, high level, we wanted to get the BPs targeted to Natty and all WIs done this week.
<kenvandine> WIs created, not done :)
<jasoncwarner> pitti: agreed. Anyone have anything to say on partner update?
<cyphermox__> all WIs done this week? eep! ;)
<pitti> cyphermox__: well, not ": DONE", just written up :)
<chrisccoulson> it seems that pitti has done most of his already ;)
<jasoncwarner> sorry, CREATED
<jasoncwarner> :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<jasoncwarner> How about a Kubuntu update, is Riddell here?
<pitti> with at most three specs each it should be feasible
<pitti> if you have more stuff to do than you can write down in one week, you *definitively* have too much
<Riddell> jasoncwarner: certainly am
<Riddell> currently in the process of collating our Todo list
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Natty is where it'll end up
<Riddell> the notes from the sessions are up on the proceedings pages and I've tidied them all up now https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UDSNatty
<jasoncwarner> Riddell: awesome, thanks. timeframe for todo list? possible to get it settled this week to coincide with creation of work items?
<Riddell> jasoncwarner: I'm doing it now, should take an hour or so
<kenvandine> Riddell, can you also get me that bug # we had talked about?
<pitti> Riddell: do you want me to set up a WI tracker for this, or do you and the Kubuntu community just use the wiki
<Riddell> probably less, tidying up the session notes is what's taken most time
<pitti> ?
<Riddell> pitti: if you could set a WI tracker for that wiki page that would be interesting
<Riddell> kenvandine: which one was that?
<kenvandine> the qt one
<pitti> Riddell: will look into that
<kenvandine> we talked about on friday night
<Riddell> kenvandine: which Qt bug?  (I'm jet lagged, memory not working so great..)
<Riddell> kenvandine: oh I know
<kenvandine> something about the look of qt apps in gtk
<Riddell> the gnome file dialogue one
<Riddell> yes I'll find that out
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> thx
<jasoncwarner> anything else?
<jasoncwarner> Riddell: you'll work with pitti to setup WI tracker? Is that the approach?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: sounds like an action for me
<Riddell> yes
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] pitti setup WI tracker for Kubuntu
<jasoncwarner> Ok.
<jasoncwarner> There is a big action I guess
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] everyone write their specs and get them approved (forgive if I used wrong words ;) )
<pitti> jasoncwarner: sounds fine
<TheMuso> Sounds about right.
<jasoncwarner> Ok, what did we miss? Pitti? seb128? anything else we need to talk about?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: nothing from me
<pitti> no release status yet
<pitti> since we don't have anything to release yet :)
<pitti> so, that sounds like a wrap
<seb128> jasoncwarner, nothing from me either
<jasoncwarner> Ok, if nothing else
<jasoncwarner> I don't have a gavle or anything to officially end a meeting
<jasoncwarner> so, uh, end of meeting!
<seb128> if you have some spare time this week please work on merges and sponsoring
<pitti> not in this channel
 * rickspencer3 hands jasoncwarner the gavel
<pitti> in #ubuntu-meeting, there is one actually :) (#endmeeting)
<jasoncwarner> #endmeeting
<pitti> rickspencer3: did you hand him your whip yet?
<jasoncwarner> :)
<TheMuso> heh
<rickspencer3> pitti, I have kept the whip
<didrocks> rickspencer3: keep it, keep it :)
 * kenvandine hears whip cracking noises
<didrocks> \o/
<bryceh> rickspencer3's gonna still need the whip
<rodrigo_> seb128, merges from debian?
<pitti> rickspencer3: right, you need it for the entire platform team now, to chase people into sponsoring
<TheMuso> If anything, rickspencer3 will be thickening it I suspect...
<pitti> jasoncwarner: sorry, you need to get your own
<TheMuso> u...and adding a few more strands.
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<jasoncwarner> ;)
<seb128> would be nice to be done with merges early and to clean the sponsoring queue a bit
<TheMuso> Afaik there are still a lot of new merges on mom
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, I always said "/me taps gavel" at the end of the meeting, so I could search for it in the logs
<pitti> didrocks: please fix "u1 team" and "necessita" assignees in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-oneconf
<rodrigo_> necessita? :D
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'll chase for people now (there is also a dx team) :)
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: good idea, I just searched for #endmeeting, but you're right...
<pitti> didrocks: same for "armel team" in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-bringing-desktop-and-netbook-image-closer -- please assign to a person; team assignments don't really work for whip cracking :0
<jasoncwarner> rickspencer3: perhaps we can wrap the meeting with xml style opening and closing braces <sarcasm> meeting </sarcasm> ? That appropriate? ;)
<pitti> jasoncwarner: #endmeeting is a mootbot command (like [ACTION], but it's not running here
<rodrigo_> didrocks, instead of u1 team, use 'chipaca', and he'll assign it to somebody to do the actual work
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, great! I'll assign to dbarth for dx team as well then :)
<Chipaca> indeed
<pitti> didrocks: finally, "charline" doesn't exist in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-coherent-behavior-for-apps-in-messagingmenu
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, or you can just say 'chipaca' on irc and he shows up :D
<Chipaca> as if by magic
<rodrigo_> yeah
<kenvandine> magic!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, same. I wasn't sure it was triggering bugs for you, but I can't find her on LP
<didrocks> so, it's was more "WIP"
<seb128> didrocks, assign to ivanka I guess :p
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, let's do that and see what happens :)
<Riddell> pitti: this has an action item for RAOF, how do I get it onto his WI list? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-kubuntu-n-x
<didrocks> pitti: done done, done and done :)
 * pitti hugs Riddell
<pitti> and didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<pitti> Riddell: it should already be
<didrocks> no objection that I rename "UNE update" to "Unity update" in the meeting template?
<pitti> Riddell: except that it's "raof"
<Riddell> pitti: how does it know to include that blueprint?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, so what you needed then in json-glib?
<didrocks> (I will take it as a "no" :))
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, just handle the parsing of it and produce an easier data type to return
<kenvandine> so now you have to figure out what the root node type is and iterate over it, figuring out if there is nested types, etc
<kenvandine> so maybe produce a hash table with <string,GLib.Value?> or something
<ari-tczew> does Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, firefox | abrowser | www-browser makes sense in natty? firefox is not enough?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, please use debian source format 3.0 for new packages like gsettings-desktop-schemas ;)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, where that value could be a nested hash table if needed
<kenvandine> something like that
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: around?
<kenvandine> just takes a fair bit of code to figure out the right way to parse the json
<jcastro> rodrigo_: are you working on the banshee U1 store issues?
<kenvandine> depending on if the root object is a json array, etc
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, I'll have a look at the code and see what can be done
<kenvandine> ok
<rodrigo_> jcastro, no
<ari-tczew> seb128: are you going to merge gnome* related packages in universe?
<rodrigo_> jcastro, but I guess I should, if nobody else does
<seb128> ari-tczew, who is you?
<rodrigo_> Chipaca, ^^(banshee U1 fixes)
<seb128> the team or me?
<jcastro> rodrigo_: ok, do we have a list of regressions vs. the rhythmbox store? I know it's not exactly a 1 to 1 port.
<seb128> ari-tczew, I doubt we will
<seb128> well as time depends but we will probably be busy enough
<rodrigo_> jcastro, I know of a few bits, but it would be cool if someone did a real test of both to produce a list
<Chipaca> aquarius has done something like that
<Chipaca> aquarius: do you have a "list of regressions"?
<ari-tczew> seb128: what do you want to know about me? MOTU member. I just saw your words: [18:06] <seb128> would be nice to be done with merges early and to clean the sponsoring queue a bit
<Chipaca> aquarius: in my mind it's just "make the code better, and add u1mslinks"
<seb128> ari-tczew, ? not sure to understand the question
<didrocks> Chipaca: also the dummy mp3 panel if we don't have mp3 support at start to trigger the codec download
<seb128> ari-tczew, oh, I was wondering if the "you" in your question was for me or the team
<seb128> ari-tczew, I didn't ask who you are ;-)
<seb128> sorry if that was not clear
<ari-tczew> seb128: ok no problem
<Chipaca> didrocks: and that
<aquarius> Chipaca, so far it all works, other than u1mslinks, and I am shortly going to try actually buying a record to confirm that that works. Extra work: mp3 codec installer, u1mslinks, tweak to gconf to enable music store by default, add banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore package by default.
<seb128> ari-tczew, well, feel free to claim universe merges, there is enough work for everybody
<didrocks> aquarius: it's the xml file, not gconf to enable it by defaut
<ari-tczew> seb128: ok. do you want to clean up sponsors queue?
<aquarius> didrocks, yeah, an xml snippet somewhere, agreed
<seb128> ari-tczew, well, not me alone but yes we should clean it
<Chipaca> jcastro: and, I've asked dobey to look into improving the quality of the plugin where and as needed, and will have mandel (and/or dobey -- it's not for a couple of months) add the missing bits
<ari-tczew> seb128: I'm also on it.
<seb128> ok great
<jcastro> dobey: ok if you need something fixed in upstream banshee tag it with "ubuntu" in the whiteboard on upstream bgo.
<jcastro> ^^ that goes for anyone who finds transition bugs in banshee
<jcastro> the faster we triage them in upstream bgo the more time we'll have
<seb128> jcastro, define transition?
<seb128> jcastro, should we tag any bug forwarded from launchpad?
<seb128> or just specific ones for things which work in rb and not banshee?
<jcastro> seb128: transition specific ones, specifically ones which need to have parity with rb.
<seb128> ok
<jcastro> basically the things we discussed at the sessions
<didrocks> thinking on that, we didn't discuss transitionning library, do we?
<didrocks> (library as in "music library")
<jcastro> we've been shipping the importer for like 2/3 releases at least
<jcastro> that should be "2 or 3", not two-thirds!
<didrocks> is it working fine? (we should have a look at bad interaction with u1 specifically)
<jcastro> I think we should test it for sure
<jcastro> let me add a needs-help wi in the spec for that
<didrocks> jcastro: thanks :)
<Riddell> jasoncwarner: our lengthy todo list https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
<didrocks> jcastro: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-dx-n-unity-places should be targetted to Natty
<jasoncwarner> Riddell: awesome. Can you update the wiki with a link to that for posterity? thanks.
<jcastro> didrocks: done
<didrocks> jcastro: thanks!
<Riddell> jasoncwarner: update the wiki?  it is the wiki
<jasoncwarner> Riddell: sorry, the team meeting recap wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-02 under the kubuntu section
<Riddell> gotcha
<pitti> Riddell: it knows that raof is a member of the desktop team
<Riddell> pitti: ok but doesn't it need to be pointed at natty or something?
<pitti> Riddell: it does, es
<pitti> "yes"
<pitti> Riddell: targetted to natty now
<chrisccoulson> has anyone upgraded to natty yet?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: me
<cyphermox__> chrisccoulson,  i did
<pitti> since last Friday evening
<chrisccoulson> oh, i guess i should do as well :)
<pitti> but of course nothing really interesting happened yet, by and large some merges and new kernel
<cyphermox__> I don't regret it... lots of things seem to not compile
<pitti> cyphermox__: due to gcc 4.5 being stricter?
<cyphermox__> pitti, I guess.
<cyphermox__> NM wasn't happy, neither were gtkhtml and evolution-data-server so far
<didrocks> sport and dinner, see you tomorrow guys :)
<pitti> night didrocks
<cyphermox__> didrocks, night!
 * pitti throws new cdbs with automatic SVG compression nattywards
<cyphermox__> wooo!
<didrocks> night pitti, cyphermox__ :)
<didrocks> pitti: great!
<dobey> Chipaca, aquarius: i think there's some odd differences in how it deals with adding stuff to the library, as well
<fta> chrisccoulson, beside a daily update-apt-xapian-index crash, some annoying python warnings (like in bzr), some weird chromium session breakage, and of course the xul/ff lockdown you know about, natty is fine for me :P
<chrisccoulson> fta - heh, i'll be using all the mozilla builds from maverick for the time being ;)
<chrisccoulson> although, i'll probably switch off -pie later to stop the hanging
<fta> oh, emacs23 weird too, if you use that
<chrisccoulson> nah, i don't use that
<chrisccoulson> vim ftw :)
<chrisccoulson> wooh, over 1GB to download
<fta> vim for quick edits, emacs for real development
<mterry> seb128, natty version of gtk3 with gir in PPA (and code in lp:~mterry/+junk/ubuntugtk3)
<seb128> mterry, waouh!
<seb128> mterry, did you get any luck with the gir question?
<seb128> mterry, I will review it tomorrow morning (gtk3)
<seb128> if I spot nothing let's upload tomorrow
<mterry> seb128, no luck
<mterry> k
<ricotz> mterry, just a minor thing
<ricotz> mterry, the libgtk3.0-0.symbols shouldnt include things like "2.91.2-0ubuntu1~build1"
<mterry> ricotz, I agree.  Should be just 2.91.2
<ricotz> yes
<mterry> ricotz, I let some slip in?  Hrm
<Sarvatt_> ok so tomorrow's the day we should stop updating natty if we want a working system? :)
<seb128> Sarvatt_, no, new gtk is a separate version
<seb128> nothing will really use it before a month at least
<seb128> we will build the stack around it first
<seb128> mterry, sorry closed the dialog, did you reply?
<seb128> to the gir question
<ricotz> Sarvatt_, yeah like kernel 2.6.37-rc1 ;-)
<seb128> mterry, how do you update the symbol file?
<mterry> seb128, either by hand or copy the new one over and sed away the suffixes for the versions
<mterry> seb128, I said "no luck" (re: my gir question) and "k" (re: review/upload tomorrow)
<seb128> mterry, you should use dpkg-gensymbols -v
<seb128> dpkg-gensymbols -v2.91.2
<mterry> seb128, well fancy fancy
<seb128> I usually copy the log line when it fails, add the -v and -O
<seb128> then debuild binary
<seb128> then after the build copy the .symbols over
<mterry> seb128, ricotz: bzr blame indicts didrocks
<mterry> I'll fix and push to branch
<seb128> thanks
<mterry> done
<bryceh> pitti, I think I found your twin:  http://www.ted.com/talks/david_bismark_e_voting_without_fraud.html
<pitti> haha
<kklimonda_> seb128: are debian gnome packagers still use cdbs or are they switching to dh7? Or, if I'd like to help them on packaging gtkmm 2.22.0 (which requires me to create a new package for atkm) should I use cdbs, dh7 or just ask the current maintainer?
<seb128> better to use the same build system than gtkmm
<kklimonda_> ok
<seb128> thanks for working on that update
<seb128> it's one of the one we didn't do last cycle and which would be nice to get
<TheMuso> Happy to work on atkmm, as we may end up using it for unity.
<TheMuso> kklimonda_: Do ou know if there is any existing packaging for atkmm anywhere?
<kklimonda_> TheMuso: I couldn't find it anywhere, there is also no ITP bug on bts
<TheMuso> kklimonda_: ah ok.
<kklimonda_> TheMuso: by anywhere I mean their svn repository - I've sent an email to maintainer (and gnome packager group on alioth) asking about it but I didn't get an answer yet so I've decided to ask some initial questions. I'll probably wait till weekend before I do any real work in case if someone has been working on a branch privately.
<TheMuso> kklimonda_: Fair enough.
<TheMuso> Worth noting that atkmm used to be part of gtkmm.
 * TheMuso was able to build it here with little effort.
<Sir_Konrad> Ok I'm back. I can view the meeting's transcript on the wiki?
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: irc.ubuntu.com has logs
<Sir_Konrad> ok thanks pitti. Any chance Jono Bacon comes in here?
<pitti> Sir_Konrad: try #ubuntu-devel
<Sir_Konrad> ok. Thanks. :)
<seb128> he's on this channel...
<jono> Sir_Konrad, hey
<Sir_Konrad> Hey jono!
<jono> hey Sir_Konrad!
<Sir_Konrad> jono, just wanted to thank you for all the great work you've done, and I have to say FLOSS Weekly isn't worth listening to anymore. :P
<jono> Sir_Konrad, thanks so much, the work is really the folks in here, not me :-)
<jono> I just help the community to do their thing :)
<Sir_Konrad> jono, ah still, you really helped pull me into the art of community. ;)
<jono> Sir_Konrad, thanks, so much! glad you enjoyed it :-)
<chmrr> Can someone take a gander at merging https://code.launchpad.net/~broder/gnome-terminal/fix-37767/+merge/39887 ?
<Sir_Konrad> whoa sorry about that jono and everyone else. o.O
<Sir_Konrad> yeah anyway jono, thanks again. Can't wait to start working on 11.04 with everyone this go around.
<jono> Sir_Konrad, awesome, hope to see you participating in Ubuntu :-)
<Sir_Konrad> Oh I will be jono. I'll be active in a lot of these channels for awhile, so I guess I'll see you around. ;)
<jono> Sir_Konrad, sweet!
<jono> have fun!
<Sir_Konrad> Thanks jono! See ya around. :)
<jono> bye!
<Sir_Konrad> Bye. :D
<Sir_Konrad> I'll brb everyone, switching into Unity
<Sir_Konrad> eh... something tells me Maverick and Unity are built for eachother. Lucid and Unity... not so much.
<kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor lp:~ken-vandine/ubuntu/maverick/x264/maverick-proposed
<kenvandine>  ?
<kenvandine> for bug 663535
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663535 in x264 (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Extreme poor Video Quality in Empathy (jabber) (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663535
 * kenvandine heads afk for a bit
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, will do
<Sir_Konrad> so how do I become part of the desktop team?
<seb128> Sir_Konrad, contribute to desktop work there
<seb128> work on fixing issues and send patches for those
<seb128> or work on updates
<Sir_Konrad> seb128, ah ok.
<seb128> or work on merges from debian
<Sir_Konrad> thanks seb128
<Sir_Konrad> brb
<lamalex> evolution keeps segfaulting :\
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> hey robert_ancell
<Sir_Konrad> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi Sir_Konrad
<Sir_Konrad> what's up?
<rodrigo_> nothing really, just checking mail before going to sleep :)
<Sir_Konrad> rodrigo_, :)
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey, was wondering what you were doing up :)
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, now? :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-03
<rodrigo_> now I'm going to sleep, so good night all
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, later
<lamalex> Horizontal scrolling isn't working on my thinkpad, it worked in 10.04. I enabled it in mouse prefs. Should I file as an X bug?
<RAOF> Probably.
<lamalex> I think it might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/661445
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 661445 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "Horizontal scroll doesn't work in maverick in SynPS/2 Synaptics Touchpad (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Low,Confirmed]
<lamalex> but I'm not sure how to tell what kind of touchpad I have
<lamalex> dont see anything in lsusb or lspci
<Sir_Konrad> lamalex, I'm pretty sure you have a Synaptics PS/2... A lot of Thinkpads do.
<Sarvatt> lamalex: does synclient HorizEdgeScroll=1 enable it?
<lamalex> lol now I can't find anything that needs to scroll horizontally :P
<lamalex> Sir_Konrad, nope
<Sir_Konrad> lamalex, you don't have a Synaptic one?
<ajmitch> lamalex: I think /var/log/Xorg.0.log will show which touchpad type it is
<ajmitch> not sure if there's a better way to see or now
<ajmitch> s/now/not/
<dpm> good morning pitti, I've added an action for you on http://is.gd/gEArp to update the text description on the langpacks PPA once we've got the schedule on the wiki and on the calendar - I just want to check you're ok with it
<seb128> dpm, hey
<dpm> heya seb128
<seb128> dpm, he's in Boston for plumbers this week so probably sleeping
<seb128> just for information
<seb128> dpm, how are you? had a nice trip back?
<dpm> aah, thanks seb128, yeah, now I remember he mentioned it. Thanks for the heads up
<dpm> seb128, fine, thanks :) - but got caught by the infamous ubuflu, no doubt helped by the air conditioning in Orlando and in the plane
<seb128> :-(
<dpm> seb128, and you? Had a nice trip back and a nice Bank Holiday on Monday?
<seb128> yes, and I managed to go back on local time after a night
<seb128> without the ubuflu
<dpm> nice :)
<seb128> I can't complain this time ;-)
<dpm> :)
<huats> morning
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> didrocks, is the new evo still on your to review list?
<seb128> huats, ca va ?
<didrocks> seb128: yes it is, there were still some issues with cyphermox latest proposal and he is fixing them
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I was reviewing versions and wondering if that one was still being worked
<didrocks> yes, it's still, no worry on it, I'm following :)
<seb128> ok
<huats> seb128, I am fine thanks !
<huats> appart from the fact that my office has been robbed last week...
<huats> you ?
<huats> (I have read that you avoided the ubuflu :) )
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> yeah didrocks told me about your office
<seb128> sorry about that
<huats> seb128, thanks
<huats> it is a bit annoying because it takes me a lot of time
<huats> and quite some money...
<huats> today the most annoying thing is that I haven't a spare PC to build... (and since I am doing a lot of squashfs it slow a lot my every day computer...)
<huats> and since I have my credit card stollen...I can't order another one yet :(
 * didrocks hugs huats
<didrocks> :/
<didrocks> did you get a lot of money, apart from ubuntu-fr's one?
<huats> didrocks, nope
<huats> nothing...
<huats> just the ubuntu-fr one,  (that for the record I'll pay back myself...)
<huats> didrocks, they took my passport, a credit card, my netbook and my build computer + the monitor :(
<didrocks> huats: well, as said on the ML, don't worry, focus first on having your paper, cards and a computer to work
<huats> didrocks, I will :)
<bilalakhtar> mvo: Hello there! Free?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, did you send that gtk patch upstream as well?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, could you add the bug number on launchpad?
<bilalakhtar> seb128: okay, doing that now
<bilalakhtar> sorry for the delay, I was having lunch
<bilalakhtar> forgot to put myself on /away
<seb128> no worry
<bilalakhtar> seb128: done
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: Congrats on becoming a member of ~ubuntu-desktop
<bilalakhtar> !
<rodrigo_> thanks bilalakhtar
 * bilalakhtar would apply soon, when seb128 would find him fit for the job
<seb128> well ubuntu-desktop gives mainly access to things on the default desktop, you didn't worked on those much yet
<bilalakhtar> papercuts?
<seb128> keep contributing and do some updates this cycle
<bilalakhtar> yup
<bilalakhtar> will update when GTK3 gets into Ubutnu
<bilalakhtar> *ubuntu
<seb128> well you don't really need commit access to papercuts
<seb128> but yeah, keep contributing and we will see ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo got it mainly because he needs upload rights to the gtk3 ppa
<bilalakhtar> ah
<bilalakhtar> what do you mean by : You don't need commit access for papercuts?
<bilalakhtar> ah, okay, I got what you meant
<seb128> well you don't have upload rights for those components anyway
<seb128> so having commit access wouldn't give you much
<seb128> you would still need a sponsor
<Laney> ubuntu desktop would give upload though no?
<seb128> not the launchpad team
<Laney> thought it did
<Laney> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in natty
<seb128> if it does I didn't know about it
<seb128> hum, ok
<Laney> I thought that was the main point of the team
<seb128> we need to be careful who we add then
<bilalakhtar> I think Laney is right
<seb128> well the point is to have access to the vcs
<bilalakhtar> I also thought that ~u-d gives access to the package set
<seb128> I though somebody add to ack the upload rights as well for upload
<Laney> in parallel to being able to upload, yeah
<seb128> time to eat
<seb128> bbl
<bilalakhtar> bye, seb128
<didrocks> reboot bbiab
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, libcanberra built now (had to patch it to build with GTK3)
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you push your work somewhere?
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushing now
<rodrigo_> seb128, lp:~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3
<rodrigo_> seb128, should I push to the PPA, or wait for your review?
<seb128> rodrigo_, wait
<seb128> I will review it now
<rodrigo_> ok
<mvo> bilalakhtar: hey, sorry for the reply - now I have time :)
<mvo> bilalakhtar: for the late reply
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> how are you?
<bilalakhtar> mvo: no problem, How are you?
<mvo> bilalakhtar: good, thanks!
<mvo> bilalakhtar: a bit tired (jetlag)
<mvo> seb128: hi!
<bilalakhtar> mvo: then, rest a bit
<bilalakhtar> mvo: I was asking about what would be the right time before u-m would say 'System may be up to date. Press the check button to check for available software updates' after an apt-get update. I am talking about bug #35009
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 35009 in update-manager (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Says "System is up to date" when package lists not updated (affects: 7) (dups: 6) (heat: 102)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/35009
<bilalakhtar> A week should be enough
<bilalakhtar> (IMHO)
<pitti> dpm: of course, thanks
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<dpm> hey pitti, thank you :)
 * pitti -> sessions, &
<mvo> bilalakhtar: let me have a look
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<mvo> bilalakhtar: from first glance the diff looks fine, I will merge now
<bilalakhtar> mvo: you went as far as merging the branch!
<bilalakhtar> What I asked was different
<bilalakhtar> Since you just came from UDS I thought to not get you to sponsor right away
<bilalakhtar> I was just asking whether 1 week would be the right time
<bilalakhtar> though IMHO the branch is good, but its your wish
<mvo> bilalakhtar: I think one week is fine
<mvo> bilalakhtar: do you think its too long?
<bilalakhtar> mvo: could be, but for stable Ubuntu releases it should be fine
<bilalakhtar> And, I know many new users who don't like the idea of updating their systems more often than once a week
<mvo> bilalakhtar: *nod*
<bilalakhtar> mvo: so, I have to go now, sorry. BTW, you may be tired, so rest. I am in no hurry to get my changes in the archive
<bilalakhtar> or in the trunk
<bilalakhtar> so, merge whenever you have time
<bilalakhtar> bye!
<mvo> thanks bilalakhtar!
<bilalakhtar> You're welcome
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<cyphermox> hmm... unity feels weird with two screens... I need to switch to the window on the second screen then head back to the first for the menus and then back to the second ...
<didrocks> bug already filed FYI :)
<cyphermox> ah, sweet
<cyphermox> do you know the #?
<cyphermox> I feel like extending or adding a top panel would probably be sufficient to get the right "feeling", unless it's just letting apps have their own menus if they aren't displayed on the first screen :P
<didrocks> hum chromium is completely crazy when searching in the bar or use shortcutâ¦ will switch back to firefox soonâ¦
<didrocks> cyphermox: there are already a lot of discussion on it, but you can look for it (I already spent too much time on finding duplicates a day :))
<didrocks> cyphermox: this kind of discussion should be on the ayatana ML I think
<cyphermox> didrocks, ok.
<nessita> hello humans! may I have a sponsorship for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.6/+merge/39964 ?
<seb128> nessita, hey robot
<seb128> nessita, ok, can do that for you ;-)
<nessita> seb128: awesome! and I was playing the monster role (too much disney world in me still)
<seb128> nessita, ;-)
<seb128> mterry, hey
<jcastro> charlie-tca: if you have time we could use a hand confirming that this fix works: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/627744
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 627744 in tomboy (Ubuntu Natty) (and 5 other projects) "Tomboy note names are blank in the Application Indicator fallback menu (affects: 14) (dups: 2) (heat: 151)" [High,Fix committed]
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<kenvandine> thx jcastro, charlie-tca
<seb128> mterry, how are you?
<seb128> mterry, not going to plumbers?
<seb128> key kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<mterry> seb128, good.  no, I've gone before, but it's too much kernel, not enough userspace for me
<seb128> kenvandine, the x264 fix is still on my list so don't worry about it by maverick sru are frozen for linaro
<seb128> mterry, ok
<kenvandine> ah, ok
<kenvandine> thx seb128
<seb128> mterry, could you peer review lp:~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3
<seb128> mterry, I will review gtk in a bit ;-)
<seb128> got busy with other things until now
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, you got bugs
<seb128> I've just sent 2 evo bugs your way
<seb128> calendar not respecting week days and timelines
<seb128> it seems to be due to your une backports
<seb128> I've rebuilt with 89* and 91* and it works fine
<didrocks> seb128: please, can I have a puppy face as a notification when you say "you got bugs"? :)
<seb128> didrocks, lol
<didrocks> seb128: ok, let's have a look :)
<didrocks> seb128 | I've rebuilt with 89* and 91* and it works fine
<didrocks> -> you mean, "without"
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I just wanted to drop the express patch first
<seb128> but it made other ones fail
<didrocks> hum, I see that will be a joy to do, maybe not for today but will give it a look later
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry, it's just that we got quite some duplicates and it's Ubuntu specific
<seb128> so we should try to fix it
<didrocks> seb128: btw, when you point to upstream bug report, do you look at bug reports "fixed" or at commits?
<seb128> didrocks, you mean?
<seb128> when I point who?
<didrocks> seb128: like in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/649543/comments/12
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 649543 in evolution (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) ""work week" preferences do nothing - no effect (affects: 29) (dups: 7) (heat: 158)" [Low,Triaged]
<didrocks> seb128: you look for bug report closed in bugzilla?
<seb128> usually yes
<seb128> but in this case I did type calendar on the git log
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> on git.gnome.org
<seb128> that's because the guy who tested said it works in other distros
<seb128> so I figured it has been fixed in git during the 2.32 cycle
<nessita> mvo: ping
<nessita> mvo: when you come back: hello! so, I've read your comment on bug #624065, and I have no so good news. We (desktop+) have no time allocated in the roadmap for that feature :-/ I will try to squeeze a fix before natty release, but if you want/can provide a patch we'll love you and you'll get your func in place :-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 624065 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Detect revoked SSO tokens (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624065
<didrocks> seb128: that patch is already in the tarball and not reverted by evo express, I will have a deeper look then
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I found that patch before having finishing my build
<seb128> it was a first guess before I figured the backport patch was the issue
<didrocks> not a joy as a lot of items have been renamed in the express branch, so a signal should be missing
<seb128> didrocks, did that code land in 2.32?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but it has changed a lot since
<seb128> didrocks, you might be able to find something in the diff between those
<seb128> hum, ok
<seb128> didrocks, or try watching the git you used for the backport, they might have fixed it there?
<didrocks> seb128: already done :) and no activity since june
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> I'll try first to remove the express tweak in calendar
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy the debugging then ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: wellâ¦ yes :-)
<mvo> nessita: thanks, I will see what I can do, should not be too much work actually
<nessita> mvo: yeah, specially if you use the current code as example
<nessita> I mean, as guideline :-)
<jcastro> didrocks: do we ship upnp support in rhythmbox in 10.10 and earlier?
<jcastro> I am wondering if feature parity means "banshee needs to support upnp" or "banshee needs to support upnp with what's on the CD and don't add anything else"
<didrocks> jcastro: not by default in 10.10, it's a separate package
<jcastro> ok so something in universe is fine?
<didrocks> jcastro: it was before lucid IIRC
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> jcastro, yes
<seb128> the upnp code is shipped with rb but we install it in a different binary
<seb128> which is not installed by default because it depends on coherence
<seb128> mterry, did you push your gtk3 with gir somewhere?
<mterry> seb128, yeah, lp:~mterry/+junk/ubuntugtk3
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mterry, --enable-introspection=yes seems wrong in configure_flags
<seb128> shouldn't it be to =no
<seb128> then =yes for the shared flavor
<seb128> you have it to =yes in shared_configure_flags
<mterry> seb128, I wasn't sure about that.  I knew we wanted it for shared.  But wasn't sure about normal
<seb128> seems it will be exercising some non standard build configuration
<seb128> like gir in the static build
<seb128> I think we should do it only for the shared flavor
<seb128> would it only to reduce build time
<mterry> k, easy to change
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> mterry, ok, seems ready for me otherwise, I'm doing a testbuild there to check as well
<seb128> why the heck is bzr bd failing to download tarballs
<seb128> or rather seems to be downloading for a while and then says tarball not found
<mterry> seb128, uscan can't find the gtk3 tarballs
<mterry> not sure why
<seb128> is that the watch issue you fixed in some other sources?
<seb128> ([\d\.])+[02468]
<seb128> to  ([\d\.]+[02468])
<mterry> seb128, maybe..?   yeah...  i think that all wants to be in the parens
<mterry> seb128, oh also, that line only checks for stable releases
<seb128> that's a valid point ;-)
<seb128> wget -nv -T10 -t3 -O ../tarballs/gtk+3.0_2.91.3.orig.tar.gz http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/2.91/gtk+-2.91.3.tar.gz
<seb128> I've that in my log
<seb128> so it seems it does figure the right location
<didrocks> ../tarballs exists?
<seb128> no
<seb128> # create tarball dir
<seb128> mkdir -p ../tarballs
<seb128> wget -nv -T10 -t3 -O ../tarballs/gtk+3.0_2.91.3.orig.tar.gz http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gtk+/2.91/gtk+-2.91.3.tar.gz
<seb128> in fact
<seb128> in the log
<seb128> still seems to be a fail
<seb128> it's using /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/gnome-get-source.mk
<seb128> not the watch
<mterry> ah
<mterry> rodrigo_, I'm looking at your canberra gtk3 branch
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok
<mterry> rodrigo_, you bumped compat to 7, but need to bump debhelper to >= 7 too then
<rodrigo_> mterry, ah, ok, let me change it
<seb128> why do you bump the compat?
<mterry> rodrigo_, you switched from cdbs to quilt?  Surprised me that you would prefer that.  I think desktop packages are mostly on quilt
<mterry> seb128, good point, I didn't see any changes that needed it
<rodrigo_> ok, coming back to 5, not sure why I did
 * mterry shudders at cdbs patches
<mterry> rodrigo_, you dropped the gtk2 module's dbg package.  was that intentional?
<rodrigo_> mterry, hmm, well, I prefer the cdbs patches, but I'm ok with switching to quilt if tha'ts better
<rodrigo_> mterry, hmm, did I?
<seb128> rodrigo_, we sort of standardized on quilt after a while
<seb128> with edit-patch nowadays it's ok
<rodrigo_> wasn't intentional, no, so re-adding it now
<seb128> edit-patch understands quilt
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mterry> :)
<mterry> rodrigo_, you overrode DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_ALL in debian/rules.  Did you mean +=?
<chrisccoulson> oh, i've not used edit-patch yet
<chrisccoulson> i just use quilt directly ;)
 * mterry hugs quilt
 * chrisccoulson hugs quilt too
<chrisccoulson> :)
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, edit-patch is useful when you need things like running autoreconf or so
<seb128> it avoids having to quilt add things
<mterry> rodrigo_, and this is minor, but gtk3-dev has a different required version of gtk3 than the build-depends.  Probably not intentional?
<mterry> seb128, oh, didn't know that, cool.  But as we discussed, I also hate autoreconf patches.  Go dh-autoreconf!
<seb128> yeah ;-)
<seb128> I still hate quilt for having to export QUILT_PATCHES
<seb128> or to have to quilt add things you modify
<seb128> I often forget the quilt add and edit the file
<seb128> then I need to trash my work and start again
<nessita> seb128: any news with the upload? if you haven't sponsored yet, I'd like to remove the proposal and make a new one
<seb128> nessita, you can do a new one, I got sidetracked in the gtk review
<seb128> nessita, you are next
<mterry> seb128, I just hold down undo for a while, quilt add, then hold down redo.  :)
<nessita> seb128: great! I'll remove the current one, so ignore until further notice
<mterry> rodrigo_, so besides the gtk3-dev version, one last thing about debian/rules
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<mterry> rodrigo_, did you really want to update dh_makeshlibs -V args to 0.26 from 0.24?
<mterry> I get the /usr/lib/canberra-0.26 one, but the -V args, I'm not as sure about
<seb128> rodrigo_, as a rules we usually try to not do changes over debian for packages come from there when not required
<mterry> I believe that sets the required version of libcanberra for any reverse depends
<didrocks> argh, I have to create a pbuilder for maverick. How come I don't have one?
<seb128> like changing the patch system or bumping the compat version
<seb128> come -> coming
<seb128> mterry, rodrigo_: right the shlibs defines the current api version
<seb128> ie the version anything building against the lib will depends on
<seb128> urg
<seb128> we scared him away? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, right.  I'm not sure off the top of my head if 0.26 broke API
<mterry> heh
<mterry> seb128, rodrigo_, hrm, the API docs don't indicate anything even changed in 0.24, so probably don't need the bump to 0.26
<seb128> I'm doing a 0.26 build to check
<mterry> seb128, how do you check doing a build?
<rodrigo_> mterry, that's the version there was in the ubuntu-desktop branch
<rodrigo_> seb128, mterry: although I think 0.24 is not ready to build with GTK3
<seb128> mterry, I still have 0.25 installed
<mterry> rodrigo_, no, I mean as an argument to dh_makeshlibs -V
<rodrigo_> mterry, ah
<mterry> rodrigo_, in debian/rules, the -V argument specifies the last time the package broke API and reverse-depends need to depend on that version or greater
<mterry> rodrigo_, you bumped that from 0.24 to 0.26, but probably didn't need to
<seb128> mterry, I've small script which nm -D the installed version and the build one
<seb128> and diff the lists
<mterry> seb128 is checking
<seb128> mterry, check-symbols in ubuntu-dev-tools does something similar
<mterry> seb128, fancy.  isn't that what .symbols is for?
<seb128> using the deb for each version rather than a build dir
<seb128> mterry, right, I had mine years before .symbols though :p
<mterry> rodrigo_, oh, speaking of, you need a debian/libcanberra-gtk3-0.symbols file
<seb128> it still comes handy for things not using .symbols
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok
<seb128> which I just nothing libcanberra do
<seb128> nothing -> noticed
<seb128> why do we still have DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_libcanberra0 calls?
<seb128> the .symbols should be enough
<mterry> seb128, oh really, dh_makeshlibs does that from symbols?  clever
<rodrigo_> so, I can remove those lines then?
<mterry> brb
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can remove the -V
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> you might want to keep the -- -c<n>
<seb128> that tells the build to stop if symbols are missing
<rodrigo_> and leave the -- -c4?
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> yes
<mterry> rodrigo_, that's all I had.  :)  if those are fixed, seems good, pending seb128's OK
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok, building now, will push in a minute
<seb128> mterry, <mterry> seb128, oh really, dh_makeshlibs does that from symbols?  clever
<seb128> mterry, what is "that"?
<mterry> seb128, I guess "that" is what dh_makeshlibs is supposed to do -- determine minimum requirements of packages.  :)  I just never thought about where it got the info from
<seb128> mterry, ah ;-)
<seb128> yeah it lists all the symbols used
<seb128> read the version for those in the .symbols
<seb128> and use that
<rodrigo_> mterry, pushed
<ricotz> hi, what is the reason for "debian/patches/01-build-with-gtk3.patch" in libcanberra, isnt it better to use the official 0.26 tarball?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, are we not using the official one?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, I got that fix from git
<ricotz> 0.26 includes this patch
<rodrigo_> not the one we have, it seems
<ricotz> http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/libcanberra/libcanberra-0.26.tar.gz
<seb128> rodrigo_, your source seems to be 0.25
<seb128> according to the configure
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> it is indeed, got confused by the previous entry in debian/changelog
<seb128> where did you get the checkout from?
<rodrigo_> ubuntu-desktop branch
<seb128> I guess that's debian dir only though?
<rodrigo_> hmm
<seb128> we way we usually work there is debian dir only and tarball is automagically downloaded and used
<rodrigo_> yes, but the branch I have is indeed ~ubuntu-desktop/libcanberra/ubuntu
<rodrigo_> that's the correct one, right?
<seb128> oh you are right it's full source
<seb128> I bet robert_ancell got confused by the format
<seb128> we usually use debian only format
<rodrigo_> ok, so I bzr merge-upstream from the official tarball, or are you fixing the branch?
<seb128> rodrigo_, so yeah, you are right, robert screwed it
<seb128> rodrigo_, you need to merge-upstream
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> having 2 workflows is confusing
<seb128> that's sort of what with discussed last week
<seb128> mterry, rodrigo_: do you know if there is some documentation on the full source way to update?
<seb128> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<seb128> equivalent to that but with merge-upstream
<mterry> seb128, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation/
<mterry> rodrigo_, ^
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I wondering if we should switch to that
<seb128> at least for things which don't take days to download ;-)
<mterry> seb128, we can just ship gnome release sources to team members on a dvd  :)
<seb128> lol
<bilalakhtar> seb128: bzr merge-upstream works with debian folder only branches?
<seb128> no
<seb128> debian only uses tarballs
<rodrigo_> hmm -> Unable to find the tag for the previous upstream release, 0.25...
<rodrigo_> if I tag the branch, it still fails
 * kenvandine upgrades to natty... 
<seb128> one other reason I don't like full source in bzr :p
<seb128> you always have issues like that
<seb128> where debian only is very low demanding
<seb128> rodrigo_, james_w or didrocks or others might know
<rodrigo_> yeah, I prefer debian only too
<didrocks> when upstream uses bzr, merge-upstream is the best :)
<kenvandine> it is definately much faster to push and pull
<didrocks> rodrigo_: what do you try with mu?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, merge-upstream libcanberra 0.26 on the ~ubuntu-desktop/libcanberra/ubuntu branch
<rodrigo_> didrocks, it says 'unable to find the upstream-0.25 tag'
<seb128> I guess the vcs in not on merge-upstream format
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, if nobody used it before, you should tag it manually
<rodrigo_> ok, so bzr tag upstream-0.25 ?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, look what commit you should add to it
<didrocks> weird, you have in latest commit "New upstream release" with no upstream file changedâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, because robert_ancell used it as a debian only vcs
<didrocks> seb128: not sure how it handles with file in the bzr tree :)
<seb128> he doesn't
<seb128> I doubt he is running into those often
<rodrigo_> adding the tag fails also, in a different way though
<seb128> I've to admit I don't really know how to deal with those either when upstream is not in bzr
<rodrigo_> wouldn't it be easier to move that ubuntu.-desktop branch to debiabn-only again?
<seb128> check with TheMuso
<seb128> he's the one whoc was working on it until now
<rodrigo_> TheMuso, ^
<seb128> so he might have an opinion
<seb128> rodrigo_, what error do you get after tagging?
<rodrigo_> it says 0.26-ubuntu1 is less than 0.26-0ubuntu1~maverick~ppa1, but I'm doing this on a clean branch, without my changes, so not sure where it gets that from
<rodrigo_> ah
<seb128> yeah you might need to merge-upstream on the current version
<seb128> then to apply your changes
<rodrigo_> it removes the debian dir, when doing merge-upstream
<didrocks> that's what it's doing on first merge-upstream
<didrocks> you have to revert the first time
<rodrigo_> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/525150/
<didrocks> rodrigo_: bzr revert debian/
<tedg> bryceh, Have you played any with the GTG branch that adds an LP backend?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: dch -v<blabla<
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: only the first merge-upstream known and filed bug :)
<rodrigo_> ok, I think I got it, it's building correctly now -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3
<rodrigo_> mterry, seb128: do I do a merge proposal so that the diff is easier to look at?
<mterry> rodrigo_, yeah, that is easier
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> the merge proposal diff are different from standard diffs?
<rodrigo_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3/+merge/39990
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, no, it's just it's easier to look at, rather than seeing the revisions on my branch
<rodrigo_> of course, my merge proposal includes all the upstream changes :(
<rodrigo_> yeah, my diff is completely borked, seems the upstream tarball includes a debian dir
<ricotz> rodrigo_, oh, is the drop of the sound-theme patch intended?
<rodrigo_> no
<ricotz> ok, so then it is missing
<rodrigo_> ricotz, the diff is borked, it shows every file as being removed and added
<seb128> rodrigo_, easier to review those by bzr diffing the debian dir between revisions
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> I'll pastebin that, and remove the merge proposal
<seb128> don't bother
<seb128> we can do it locally
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<didrocks> ahah, take that evolution! :)
<seb128> didrocks, you got it?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, both bugs was the same cause :)
<seb128> lacking an update?
<didrocks> seb128: not really, the editor really changed the gconf key, but as the restruction of evolution is half finished in 2.30 and the express branch was relying on it, there were no parent listening to the change.
<seb128> oh ok
<didrocks> I had to minimize the change to add the part for listening the gconf key again as well adapting it with previous structure :)
<bryceh> tedg, a while ago, not recently
<tedg> bryceh, Was it reasonable stable, or should I avoid looking? :)
<bryceh> tedg, avoid
<rodrigo_> seb128, mterry, did you review my branch?
<mterry> rodrigo_, oh no, I didn't.  didn't know you had gone back and actually requested a merge
<rodrigo_> mterry, my branch is a bit borked, so I guess for a merge I'd need a cleaner one, but just need review to upload the package to the gnome3 ppa
<rodrigo_> mterry, but no hurry, just wanted to know if there was something else wrong
<mterry> Oh I see, you fixed the whole 0.25/0.26 thing
<rodrigo_> yes
<mterry> OK, looking now
<pitti> seb128: do you think you can review/approve https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/performance-desktop-n-install-footprint this week?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, how is plumber?
<seb128> pitti, I will review the spec in a bit or tomorrow morning
<pitti> seb128: in one word: "enlightening" :) in fact there's quite some bits to discuss on our side, I'll follow up next week
<pitti> seb128: cheers
<pitti> seb128: sohuldn't take much work, you were in the session and there shouldn't be much surprise
<seb128> right
<seb128> pitti, lot of stack changes coming from plumbers?
<pitti> seb128: one word: systemd :)
<seb128> lol
<mterry> rodrigo_, what happened in the 're-add debian directory' commit?  It makes bzr diff really hard to understand (every file is removed & added instead of being changed)
<mterry> as well as losing bzr history for those files
<rodrigo_> mterry, yeah, merge-upstream removed the dir so re-added it
<mterry> rodrigo_, it deleted the debian/ directory? odd
<rodrigo_> yes
<mterry> rodrigo_, you can get it back by doing 'bzr revert debian' instead of re-adding them, though I'm not sure why it deleted it
<rodrigo_> I think it's because the upstream tarball has a debian/ dir, let me check
<rodrigo_> no, it doesn't
<rodrigo_> so yeah, not sure why it did, I guess it got confused by the branch not having had a merge-upstream before
<rodrigo_> I think we should fix the ubuntu-desktop branch to not have the source in it, shouldn't we?
<mterry> rodrigo_, well...  there are two schools of thought on that, and I'm not sure where canberra falls (normal distro stuff is full-source, most desktop-team stuff has historically been debian-only)
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> I'll try fixing my branch for a better merge proposal
<mterry> rodrigo_, thanks, the bzr history is important
<rodrigo_> yeah
<TheMuso> rodrigo_: Also be aware that there are unreleased changes in debian libcanberra git.
<TheMuso> That we will likely need for GTK3.
<seb128> why?
<seb128> what sort of changes?
<seb128> rodrigo_ got a gtk3 build without those
<TheMuso> Gtk3 support was added, thast pretty much it.
<rodrigo_> yeah, it builds the gtk3 module correctly
<rodrigo_> mterry, forget my previous branch, removing it and submitting a new one
<rodrigo_> mterry, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3/+merge/39997 <- now it's ok
<mterry> :)
 * mterry looks
<mterry> rodrigo_, I bet you thought this would be easier!  :)
<rodrigo_> yeah, the previous branch's diff was completely messed up
<seb128> 420	+ * debian/patches/01-build-with-gtk3.patch:
<seb128> 421	+ - Add patch to make it build with GTK3
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^ to clean?
<rodrigo_> yeah
 * rodrigo_ cleans
<rodrigo_> pushed
<mterry> rodrigo_, what's the src/sound-theme-spec.c about?  That was upstream?
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes
<rodrigo_> mterry, I just merge-upstream and then did changes in debian/
<mterry> rodrigo_, weird.  I wonder how that affects us.  Also,  -gtk3-dev still depends on a different version of gtk3 than the Build-Depends
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should document the rules changes in the changelog as well
<rodrigo_> mterry, it's just a .spec file, not built it seems
<rodrigo_> ah, sorry, it's a C file
<mterry> rodrigo_, so what's the deal with the header files like libcanberra.h?  There's just one copy and whether you're building with gtk2 or gtk3, you use the same header?
<rodrigo_> ok, fixing the -gtk3-dev
<rodrigo_> mterry, seems so, you select which one to link to
<mterry> rodrigo_, then gtk3-dev should probably depend on gtk-dev to pull in libcanberra-gtk.h
<seb128> that seems suboptimal
<mterry> rodrigo_, also, this isn't your fault, but /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play should really not be in a library package
<mterry> not worth fixing now though
<seb128> sjoerd said he was interested to get the canberra update in debian
<seb128> I will point him to the ppa version one uploaded
<seb128> so we can sort with debian what to do for those
<seb128> just to make sure we don't divert
<rodrigo_> seb128, mterry, ok, pushed last 2 fixes
<didrocks> ok, sport and dinner, see you tomorrow!
<rodrigo_> bye didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, have fun
<didrocks> rodrigo_: seb128: enjoy your evening :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, you too :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, what other libs do we need in the PPA? gtk-engines-3? what others?
<mterry> rodrigo_, I think at-spi needs to ship a gtk3 module as well as gtk2 one
<rodrigo_> right
<rodrigo_> what about gtksourceview?
<mterry> rodrigo_, did you do the gtk3-dev depends on gtk-dev change?
<rodrigo_> do we want it in the PPA, or just when we package gedit?
<rodrigo_> mterry, hmm, no
<rodrigo_> mterry, shall I?
<mterry> rodrigo_, I agree with seb128 that it's suboptimal, but we need some way to ship libcanberra-gtk.h when gtk3-dev is used.  We could split it into a common-dev package, or we could ship two copies of the header with namespaces...  or we could have one depend on the other
<seb128> depends for now
<seb128> we will not get ride of the gtk2 version in the next weeks
<rodrigo_> can we have 1 file in 2 subpackages?
<seb128> we can upload for now and sort that with debian
<mterry> rodrigo_, only if they conflict&replace each other
<seb128> sjoerd said he would review your work for debian in the next days
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> so, do I add the dependency then?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes for now
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> until we sort a better way
<seb128> <sjoerd> seb128: in my local trial version i've got a libcanberra-gtk-common-dev, but that seems a bit suboptimal as well
<seb128>  seb128: (with the vapi and the .h)
<rodrigo_> ok, pushed
<seb128> sjoerd tried on that
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> if mterry is happy with the current version feel free to upload to the ppa
<seb128> I will drop an email to sjoerd about your current work
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> so he can review and comment later on
<seb128> I will Cc you on the email
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks for working on that ;-)
<rodrigo_> you're welcome :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, is there still anything we lack to build g-c-c after that?
<mterry> rodrigo_, yeah, seems great!  push to the ppa and thanks
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok
<seb128> do we need that libsocial?
<seb128> is somebody working on packaging it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think not, but I'll try later on
<rodrigo_> right, libsocial
<rodrigo_> I'll look at packaging that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, mterry: you guys have enough tasks to keep busy?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I do, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, but if you want me to work on something, just tell me
<mterry> seb128, I have stuff to work on, but I can take something
<seb128> no, I'm just trying to make sure people don't waste time because they don't know what to do
<seb128> rodrigo_, mterry: ok, great, so just keep on your current tasks ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw you might want to hang on  oftc #debian-gnome
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> we might have some of the gtk3 update discussions there with the debian guys over the cycle
<seb128> it's usually very low activity
<seb128> but being there is useful for such discussions
<rodrigo_> here on freenode?
<seb128> no, on oftc
<seb128> irc.oftc.net
<seb128> that's the irc debian is using
<seb128> (yeah, yet another server to connect)
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> ok, I'm in, but I'm leavbing now for some fresh air, so later all!
<seb128> rodrigo_, have fun, see you tomorrow
<kenvandine> tedg, i made some changes to the ubuntu-geoip package lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-geoip/ubuntu
<kenvandine> added description, bumped standards and set the desktop team as the package maintainer
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool, I'll merge those.
 * tedg is good at stealing other's work :)
<kenvandine> i'll look for a sponsor soon, hacking up a test in python to make sure it behaves well without much installed :)
<seb128> kenvandine, it's about time you run for motu rights
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah.. i know :)
<kenvandine> i just need to ask for endorsements and get on the agenda for the next meeting
<kenvandine> i keep forgetting about it
<kenvandine> i guess that is the problem when most packages i touch i have upload rights for :)
<seb128> we can fix that if you want ;-)
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> although the other day i thought it would be fun to go do some sponsoring and help clean up the queue
<kenvandine> but of course i couldn't :/
<seb128> see
<Laney> universe queue is pretty clean these days
<Laney> you want main rights for that :P
<seb128> you need motu first then you can get there ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, nope... dholbach told me to go ahead and ask for core-dev
<seb128> better
<seb128> go for it ;-)
<seb128> so you can clean the sponsoring queue!
<seb128> there is no way you will get out of your sponsoring duties :p
<kenvandine> i'll make sure i am on the agenda for the next meeting
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> thanks
<dobey> has anyone here built natty packages in a ppa?
<seb128> dobey, quite some people did that
<seb128> we have a bunch of desktop ones
<dobey> ok
<seb128> why?
<dobey> i guess it's just the source recipe builder stuff on launchpad that's not working for it
<dobey> i get chroot errors when trying to build source recipes on lp for it
<seb128> I guess you should ask the launchpad guys
<seb128> works fine for normal uploads
<dobey> yeah, that's why i asked if normal ppa uploads worked ok. :)
<dobey> i'll bug the lp guys, thanks
<cyphermox> guh, just finally made evolution-exchange 2.32 agree to compile on natty :)
<kenvandine> tedg, so with geoclue, is should be able to set my accuracy and allowed resources and it will figure out the provider to use?
 * kenvandine was looking at a plugin for GTG and they iterate over all the available providers and decide which to use
<kenvandine> which seems silly to me
<tedg> kenvandine, Yup.  I haven't tested that though.
<tedg> kenvandine, The master client should be able to choose one for you.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> i actually think there is a bug in python-geoclue
<kenvandine> which i have a fix for
<tedg> kenvandine, You can look in indicator-datetime for how I do it.
<kenvandine> but need to look at it with fresh eyes later :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, any idea why I get this:
<rodrigo_> Unable to find libcanberra_0.26.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
<rodrigo_> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<rodrigo_> when submitting from a source package branch?
<rodrigo_> it seems it doesn't upload the tar.gz, why?
<kenvandine> is the libcanberra_0.26.orig.tar.gz in the dir?
<rodrigo_> yes
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, is it a *ubuntu1 revision?
<rodrigo_> hmm, no, it's 2
<cyphermox> you might want to debuild -S -sa if it's for a PPA
<rodrigo_> ok
<cyphermox> (or the 'bzr bd -S -- -sa' equivalent)
 * cyphermox -> eod
<rodrigo_> right, that did it, it's uploading the tar.gz now
<rodrigo_> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: I like your host ;)
<sarvatt> http://etherpad.osuosl.org/lpc2010-desktop  -- desktop discussions from today at plumbers, the death to distributions talk (aka gnome os) was especially interesting
<kklimonda_> sarvatt: are the discussions and presentations recorded?
<sarvatt> I dont believe so outside of the awesome non crashy gobby replacement etherpad notes
<kklimonda_> bummer - topics that are being discussed on the plumber conference are really interesting :/
<sarvatt> gnome 4.0 = the one distro to rule them all basically (pretty easy to guess what it would be based on)
<kklimonda_> sarvatt: how are they planning to do that? it
<kklimonda_> it's one thing to say that gnome is going to be the os itself, it's another thing to convince enough people of it.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-04
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what ISP are you using?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Internode.
<RAOF> With what porpoise?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, good?  I'm thinking of changing from TPG because the performance has been bad for months
<RAOF> Yeah, Internode have been generally great.
<RAOF> They may be more expensive, although I also bundle in a VoIP phone for free, so it's less so.
<RAOF> But I consistently pull ~ 1.4MiB/sec from the Ubuntu mirror on mirror.internode.on.net, and 300 ~ 1000KiB/sec from various overseas places.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, they have a lot of plans, what's the difference
<robert_ancell> nice
<RAOF> They've really only got about 5 plans, but 4 different ways of actually being connected ):
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Depending on how much you love Telstra's phone service you probably want one of the Naked ADSL2+ plans.
<RAOF> If Internode have some dslam hardware available at your exchange, of course.  They probably do, Sydneysider!
<RAOF> You can have my old port on the Cammeray exchange :)
<robert_ancell> heh, so I don't get the difference between "Easy" and "Extreme"
<RAOF> I don't think they had them when I signed up.
<RAOF> I think âExtremeâ == ADSL2+
<ajmitch> why wouldn't they all be on ADSL2+ now, if there's the option?
<robert_ancell> It says "Easy" is 2+ as well.
 * ajmitch really needs to find out how to get this laptop cooling better before it dies
<robert_ancell> ok, weird.  "Easy"=internode or optus wholesale network, "Extreme"= internode only, "Ultra"=optus only.  I have no idea why they're exposing these details to customers
<RAOF> There's probably some cash involved, but yeah.
<RAOF> It does seem rather silly.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, do you use a hardware phone for SIP?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Yeah, I do.
<RAOF> I got a SIP router/adsl modem with a rs-whatever port :)
<robert_ancell> I was thinking is it better to get that or a SIP phone
<RAOF> Oh, right.
<RAOF> Well, I already had a regular phone, didn't have an ADSL2+ router, and IIRC they gave it away for free with a 2 year contract, so it wasn't much of a decision for me.
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, hey
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, i haven't looked at that branch yet... but is it just this patch http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57067390/light.debdif-style.patch
<kenvandine> ?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, the light-themes package is done a bit different... probably be easier for me just to apply that patch :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, yeah, that's what I thought!  Is there a problem with the upload to maverick-proposed though?  (i.e. you probably want to take into account the version number I used)
<kenvandine> ok, i'll grab the changelog :)
<kenvandine> and fix it in trunk
<robert_ancell> thansk
<kenvandine> lp:light-themes is upstream and packaging
<kenvandine> and it is a native package
<kenvandine> i messed it up a couple times when i was getting to know it :)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, add the Vcs-Bzr link into the control file - that will make it clearer :)
<kenvandine> good idea :)
<kenvandine> actually i think i did once, and kwwii took it out again
<kenvandine> merged
<kenvandine> thx robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> pitti, can you let vala out of the new queue in natty? thanks
<RAOF> Hm.  Are we going to be shipping the new pane-based gnome-control-centre in Natty?
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> bonjour didrocks
<rodrigo_> hmm, where do I file a kernel module bug? https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-team doesn't have a 'report bug' link
<rodrigo_> ah, Kernel Bugs!
<didrocks> :)
<rodrigo_> no, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kernel-bugs doesn't have the link
<rodrigo_> ok, found the package
<ricotz> rodrigo_, hi
<rodrigo_> hi ricotz
<ricotz> rodrigo_, have you seen my merge proposal?
<rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, no, still going over mail, looking now
<ricotz> ok
<rodrigo_> ricotz, ah, adding the online patch
<ricotz> rodrigo_, i also would suggest to clean up the changelog, i think there is no need to document ppa uploads, all changes for the official upload should go into one changelog entry
<ricotz> rodrigo_, yes it got dropped ;-)
<rodrigo_> ricotz, on my branch?
<ricotz> not sure, it was an inline patch, to might be happened while the upstream import
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, ricotz
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> rodrigo_, ricotz: keeping the ppa uploads in a changelog is fine
<seb128> what update are you working on?
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricotz/libcanberra/ubuntu/+merge/40051
<rodrigo_> ricotz, looks good to me, if seb128 agrees, I'll merge it with my branch
<seb128> seems fine, just don't use 0ubuntu2 yet
<seb128> still use a ppa version until it lands in natty
<seb128> it can't land before gtk3 lands
<ricotz> seb128, hmm, keeping the ppa revisions will create quite some clutter in the changelog, it can be added locally before the upload?
<seb128> why clutter?
<seb128> it's just the package history
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think we can do what ricotz says, keep the correct version in the merge proposal
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> well it's the same story that people tweaking git history before merges
<seb128> some people like to keep things the way they have been done
<seb128> some others like to tweak history to make things cleaner
<ricotz> seb128, i mean noise, it will look cleaner, and the official upload will get a nice changelog
<seb128> it's a matter of taste, none is better than the other
<ricotz> ok, just my opinion
<seb128> I've no strong opinion but I just want to point that either is fine
<seb128> whoever is doing the work can decide
<ricotz> ok ;)
<seb128> I tend to debuild -v<version_in_archive> to include the ppa upload changelog entries
<seb128> but if other people prefer to merge things before upload that's fine as well
<rodrigo_> ricotz, are you using natty already?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, so it is up to you then ;-)
<ricotz> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> I guess I need to upgrade asap
<seb128> rodrigo_, keep a ppa version in the changelog for now
<seb128> I mean 0ubuntu2~something
<seb128> to not conflict with the official natty upload
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> I'll leave it as 0.26-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<rodrigo_> well, 0ubuntu2, yeah :)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> didrocks, evo bug your way ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, bug #670747
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 670747 in evolution (Ubuntu) "cannot import outlook pst file (addressbook, calendar, email) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670747
<didrocks> seb128: nooooooo, not from the morning!
<seb128> didrocks, this one seems a one liner in the rules
<seb128> but I'm not sure if you did it on purpose on not
<didrocks> seb128: let me have a look
<seb128> didrocks, the pst-import is still listed in the control and .install
<seb128> you just let the --disable-pst-import from debian it seems
<ricotz> rodrigo_, "bzr merge" is your friend on this
<didrocks> seb128: probably a merge error, right, as my previous SRU is still not accepted, I'll upload a new one
<rodrigo_> ricotz, yeah, I know, just that I got the patch in .txt for reviewing it, so it was easy to just patch < ...
<didrocks> seb128: can you kill my previous evolution upload to maverick-proposed?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<ricotz> rodrigo_, no you didnt patched it right ;)
<didrocks> thank to you :)
<rodrigo_> ricotz, oh?
<ricotz> rodrigo_, the patch itself is missing
<rodrigo_> ah, forgot to bzr add
<seb128> didrocks, upload cleaned from the queue
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<rodrigo_> ricotz, fixed now
 * rodrigo_ upgrades to natty
<ricotz> rodrigo_, ok :P, but using "bzr merge" is the right thing
<rodrigo_> ricotz, yeah
<rodrigo_> seb128, you are going to upload the gnome3 ppa packages to natty this week, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes, likely later today or tomorrow
<seb128> why?
<rodrigo_> seb128, just wanted to know :)
<seb128> well things in order, we will start this week
<seb128> we might need to wait until gtk3 built to upload other things
<seb128> so maybe earlier next week for some of the sources
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you triage https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-couchdb?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, there is only 19 bugs on it so it should be easy enough
<seb128> I just reassigned a bug about contact not being editable but I'm not sure what to ask on that
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> there is also a "not synchronizing" bug with quite duplicate
<rodrigo_> yes, that's the couchdb error
<seb128> it might be due to the server issues during the maverick cycle and fixed
<seb128> in any case if you could drop some comments in bugs you have a clue about that would be nice ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<rodrigo_> ok
<huats> morning
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128!
<asac> chrisccoulson: this paste being broken thing in gnome-terminal ... will you fix it? :)
<chrisccoulson> asac - oh, i think i said i'd fix it ;)
<asac> chrisccoulson: you said "today" on oct 13 ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i'll try and look at that this week ;)
<asac> chrisccoulson: it works if you open the top level Edit menu once
<asac> so its probably a keyboard shortcut lazily getting initialized :)
<nessita> good morning everyone
<nessita> seb128: would you be able to sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.0.7/+merge/40077 ?
<seb128> nessita, hey
<seb128> sure
<nessita> thanks!
<seb128> np
<seb128> it's a stable update right?
<pitti> seb128: are you waiting for anything in NEW?
 * pitti just NEWed vala, as requested by Robert
<pitti> but I can't see anything GTKish
<seb128> pitti, not yet, got sidetracked by post UDS reviews and catching up
<seb128> pitti, GTK will probably be latter today or tomorrow, I will drop you an email when I land it
<pitti> seb128: that's fine; just want to make sure you aren't blocked on me
<pitti> seb128: sounds great
<seb128> pitti, thanks for checking
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> pitti, how if you ubuflu today?
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> urg
<seb128> pitti, how is your ubuflu today?
<seb128> I meant
<pitti> seb128: it never reall broke out; I guess I'm just fighting with the very dry air here
<seb128> ok
<nessita> seif the question was for me, yes, is a stable release
<nessita> seb128: ^
<seb128> nessita, it was, so don't panick if it doesn't go through until next week
<seb128> nessita, the proposed queue is frozen until next week for linaro
<nessita> seb128: ah, ok
<pitti> session o'clock, cu later
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<nessita> hey guys, I'm building the natty package of ubuntu-sso-client, and when using bzr merge-upstream I'm getting:
<nessita> nessita@dali:~/canonical/ubuntu/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.2$ bzr merge-upstream --version 1.1.2 ../ubuntu-sso-client_1.1.2.orig.tar.gz
<nessita> Using distribution natty
<nessita> bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
<nessita> Any idea what's wrong?
<kenvandine> nessita, distribution is ubuntu
<kenvandine> you'll just need to manually change it to natty in debian/changelog
<kenvandine> until you are on natty, then it will default to natty
<nessita> kenvandine: but I'm not explicitly setting the distribution anywhere (I've never had)
<nessita> I'm just running "bzr merge-upstream --version 1.1.2 ../ubuntu-sso-client_1.1.2.orig.tar.gz"
<kenvandine> oh... weird
<kenvandine> i have always added a --distribution ubuntu
<kenvandine> because it had complained to me about not having that
<nessita> kenvandine: for maverick packages, the exact same command always said "distribution maverick"
<seb128> nessita, you are on natty?
<kenvandine> maybe it just doesn't know about natty yet
<nessita> seb128: nopes
<seb128> ok, the maverick version probably doesn't know about natty
<nessita> ah!
 * kenvandine moved to natty yesterday, went smoothly
<seb128> james_w or didrocks might know what you need to tweak to teach it
<kenvandine> but now i fear upgrading every day :)
<seb128> ;-)
<nessita> seb128: thanks, I'll ask
<nessita> kenvandine: you, brave man!
<nessita> james_w: ping
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #655252
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 655252 in indicator-me (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Hint not always hidden when the broadcast field is in use (affects: 22) (dups: 6) (heat: 84)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655252
<seb128> what's going on with this one?
<seb128> seems it has been fixed in trunk? is there any release planned for natty or sru?
<kenvandine> sigh... i don't know, dbarth_ has a fix that works for him
<kenvandine> but not me
<kenvandine> and his fixed worked sometimes for bratsche
<kenvandine> but we couldn't figure out why!
<kenvandine> dbarth_, ping ^^
<dbarth> kenvandine: yep?
<dbarth> oh, the hint issue is still there?
<kenvandine> dbarth, can you look at that bug again?
<kenvandine> yeah... your fix never worked for me
<kenvandine> and only worked for cody sometimes
<kenvandine> but we couldn't figure out why
<kenvandine> i also tested in a pristine, fresh install of maverick
<didrocks> nessita: it's written in debchange script
<didrocks> nessita: /usr/bin/debchange
<didrocks> nessita: add "natty" to unless ($opt_D =~ /^((dapper|hardy|jaunty|karmic|lucid|maverick)
<dbarth> kenvandine: i remember, the fix only worked with indicator-loader, but there was more of the same grab issue when running on the panel
<didrocks> also $DISTRIBUTION = 'natty'
<didrocks> and finally $distribution = $opt_D || "natty";
<nessita> didrocks: awesome, thanks!
<kenvandine> dbarth, yeah, but it didn't even work for me in the loader
<didrocks> well, look for maverick, you will see what to change :)
<didrocks> nessita: yw
<seb128> or just use --distribution ubuntu
<seb128> or copy a natty debchange version on your system
<didrocks> seb128: it will apply "maverick" in maverick
<dbarth> kenvandine: ok, i'll have another try with bratsche
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> didrocks, well then you can edit it by hand ;-)
<kenvandine> dbarth, there was an assert too that we weren't sure if it was related
<seb128> dbarth, kenvandine: thanks
<didrocks> seb128: sure, but lazyness is sometimes good :)
<didrocks> "# In Ubuntu uploads should go to maverick" <- wasn't changed in natty, not sure it worth an upload :)
<nessita> didrocks: I don't think that's the issue since in /usr/bin/debchange I have natty already. And the error starts with bzr:
<nessita> bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
<seb128> nessita, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-builddeb/+bug/668764
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 668764 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Add Natty to the list of known distros (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,In progress]
<nessita> Low?!?!?!
<nessita> :-)
<didrocks> nessita: it's not "bzr warning: Recognised distributions are"â¦ ok, then it's not debchange (dch use "$program to fake it's the software which speaks to you :))
<seb128> nessita, edit /usr/share/pyshared/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py
<seb128> nessita, try adding natty to UBUNTU_RELEASES
<nessita> right
<nessita> awesome, works
<didrocks> I'm puzzled why we have it there as well and not only in dch, that will be a question for james_w :)
<seb128> nessita, great ;-)
<didrocks> (also having that list just once in /etc will be nice, instead of multiple copies and own list in ~/.pbuilderrc as well)
<james_w> please file a bug :-)
<seb128> hey james_w
<james_w> hi seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #652771, do you know if that's still an issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 652771 in light-themes (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) ""Post message..." text in MeMenu is unreadable with default Ambiance theme (affects: 6) (dups: 2) (heat: 46)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652771
<seb128> Cimi, ^
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<pedro_> hello seb128!
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<kenvandine> seb128, imo it is still a problem
<seb128> grumpf
<james_w> seb128, good thanks, how are you?
<kenvandine> it hasn't gotten any better, but from what i hear it is how design wants it
<seb128> james_w, I'm fine thanks ;-)
<seb128> james_w, nice to be back without ubuflu this time
<pedro_> seb128, better now, recovering from the darn ubuflu :-/. how are you?
<kenvandine> seb128, it is supposed to be insensitive, but in ambiance that is really hard to see
<seb128> pedro_, I'm fine thanks
<kenvandine> in radiance it looks fine
<seb128> kenvandine, it's hard to read it seems
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> Cimi, any more insight?  I was told that was on purpose
<kenvandine> it's just with the dark theme, insensitive is nearly impossible to read
 * kenvandine wonders why people actually subscribe to my identi.ca test account.... 
<kenvandine> do they really enjoy reading "testing" "test 1 2 3"
<Cimi> kenvandine: we might want to change it
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey, have you thought of creating a test that the QA team could automatically run daily?
<rickspencer3> a set of daily tests to make sure Gwibber is still working?
<rickspencer3> could ensure that libgwibber keeps working too
<jcastro> hey seb128
<seb128> hello jcastro
<jcastro> mark says "Jorge, I believe the current plan is that the GNOME 2 session (panel etc) would always be installed on every system anyway, so will be an option at first login and not require a special trip via the Software Center to get it "
<jcastro> I just want to double confirm. :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, have thought about it, but haven't figured out how to automate it
<seb128> confirmed
<jcastro> ta
<seb128> jcastro, ^
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am also thinking about trying to use dbus-test-runner
<seb128> jcastro, it will be used as a 2d session anyway
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, the QA team is going to run tests daily, automatically, using mago
<jcastro> seb128: thanks
<rickspencer3> so you can drive Gwibber through the UI, and ensure that if it breaks, you find out right away
<dobey> the hard part of testing something like gwibber, will be the authentication bits
<rickspencer3> and don't have to worry about it
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i would like to find a way to run tests with auth and real data from the services
<rickspencer3> dobey, well, mago should be able to automated the sign on and such
<rickspencer3> I think webkit is sufficiently accessible at this point
<kenvandine> actually i hadn't really thought about mago
<dobey> rickspencer3: i don't think you can do much with webkit with mago?
<rickspencer3> ara ^
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, afaik, it isn't completely not a11y
<kenvandine> one of the reasons we are trying to get away from webkit
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I think it might be sufficiently, so
<rickspencer3> they've done a lot of work on it recently
<seb128> speaking of webkit
<seb128> TheMuso, there?
<rickspencer3> anyway, it's an HTML DOM, so you can just inject whatever you want, anyway, with a little work
<kenvandine> but has it made it down to pywebkitgtk
<seb128> TheMuso, you said webkit accessibility was still an issue for the GNOME documentation?
<dobey> kenvandine: a11y being there has nothing to do with the bindings
<rickspencer3> knowing right away that auth broke for twitter and/or facebook would be really handy
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, indeed!
<kenvandine> and...
<kenvandine> if the API changes
<dobey> kenvandine: what matters is finding the form buttons in the a11y tree, which may difficult as some sites do some crazy stuff for that
<rickspencer3> right, that would be part of it breaking, they break us ;)
<ara> yes, I don't think webkit can be automated using a11y, but maybe with a combination of a11y for the gtk parts, and some other (dbus api?) for the rest
<rickspencer3> ara, do you think you can automated signing into a twitter account with gwibber?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, ara: also... all the bits of the UI that we would be driving is webkit currently :/
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I have no doubt that this can be automated
<ara> rickspencer3, mmm, my first thought is that it is going to be complicated,  but we can always try something out
<rickspencer3> I'm not willing to accept that it's not possible
<rickspencer3> it could be "work", yes, but not impossible
<dobey> it's software, nothing is impossible
<dobey> it's just a matter of how much tedium it is
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yeah... question is finding the time to do it :/
<rickspencer3> it's also html in a browser, which is inherently easy to get control of
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it will get much easier soon, i think
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, automated testing is the QA team's biggest priority this release
<kenvandine> excellent :)
<kenvandine> i will take any help i can get :)
<rickspencer3> did I not make this clear at UDS?
<kenvandine> yes... you did :)
<dobey> rickspencer3: well, as soon as you alter the html, you end up with a higher probability that an breakage is actually you, and not the site you're trying to interact with
<rickspencer3> Unity, 2d Experience, Software Center, *Testing*, Contributions
<kenvandine> i have talked to developers from other twitter clients... amazingly none of them have unit tests!
<rickspencer3> dobey, you don't have to alter it, just get control of the widgets and inject your strings into textboxes and click the buttons
<rickspencer3> c'mon, you can't tell me that it's rocket science to automate driving a web page, people do this all the time
<dobey> rickspencer3: right, and we should really require the a11y framework to do that. becuase if the a11y framework can't do it, it's a bug we should be gettinf xied
<kenvandine> i am hoping in the next couple of weeks we can string together a minimally functional client which is pure gtk
<dobey> rather than writing some JS to inspect the dom and insert text and submit forms
<rickspencer3> dobey, right ... we always wait to start testing and ensure quality until some other condition is met
<rickspencer3> that's bs
<dobey> no
<dobey> that's not what i said
<rickspencer3> I'm just saying, we could write a test now that would detect breakage right away, we shouldn't wait until we have a perfectly testable platform
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, so i would rather start testing the backend, independant of the client
<dobey> using the JS method as a crutch is fine, but it should be a fallback for when the a11y is failing, and we should report that the a11y is failing
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, interesting discussion there in the testing community
<rickspencer3> some people think you should always test the GUI, because that drives the backend, and you get testing for both in one go
<kenvandine> before spending a bunch of time creating tests for piece of the UI that is very likely going to be replaced very soon
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i agree completely...
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, if there are tests in place for the GUI, then when you change the GUI, you change the tests at the same time
<kenvandine> but there are cases where you can't, especially with gwibber
<rickspencer3> if you always wait until the GUI is "done" you never write those tests
<seb128> well testing the GUI is nice
<dobey> i wonder how much even basic stuff gwibber isn't doing
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, in theory... but if the new GUI has now webkit...
<seb128> but it's somewhat harder so usually people start by testing the backends
<dobey> like, using pylint/pep8
<kenvandine> dobey, oh god, i don't want to even know :)
<rickspencer3> haha
<rickspencer3> in any case, Gwibber is core to the desktop
<rickspencer3> we should be testing it daily
<rickspencer3> it integrates all over the place
<kenvandine> i know it will bitch like crazy over the indenting :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yes... i agree
<seb128> dobey, do you need to be pep8 to work with testing tools?
<dobey> you really need to separate integration/acceptance/unit/etc... tests properly too
<kenvandine> no
<dobey> seb128: no, you can write totally shit code and have passing tests if you want
<seb128> well the number of spaces you use doesn't really reflect code quality
<dobey> seb128: but better code == better software, and using the lintian tools helps ensure better code quality
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> they are both important
<rickspencer3> if you care about your code lasting, anyway
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, my point is if the amount of effort to get automated GUI tests with the current webkit stuff is high, better to make the new UI with real a11y a higher priority so the testing is easier... right?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I don't believe it is that high
<kenvandine> instead of investing a bunch of work and throw it away
<rickspencer3> but I am skeptical that the "new GUI" is going to be ready any time soon
<dobey> which is why we're working on making all the u1 python code pass pylint and pep8 cleanly
<rickspencer3> you always "throw tests away" when the thing that you are testing changes, or goes away
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i was until UDS... but it seems to have traction now
<dobey> and why we're building with -Wall -Werror when landing code now
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, of course...
<rickspencer3> also, it would only be the code that drives the UI that changes
<rickspencer3> all the code for loading the fixtures, checking for results, etc... would all remain in place
<rickspencer3> and gwibber is not the only thing that uses webkit, so knowing how to test it would be generally good, anyway
<dobey> kenvandine: gwibber would probably benefit a lot from some of the stuff in ubuntuone-dev-tools
<kenvandine> i don't know much about js and manipulating the DOM, but from what ryan and others have said it is nearly impossible with our current python-mako/python-webkitgtk stuff
<kenvandine> dobey, i'll look today
<dobey> kenvandine: like the test runner, to run tests against a private dbus-daemon instance
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, one thing we can't test for in current gwibber with the UI, is all the transient errors we ignore
<kenvandine> dobey, have you seen dbus-test-runner?
<dobey> kenvandine: and i'm making that bit more generic so we can add other private instance services for testing, like keyring
<dobey> kenvandine: no
 * kenvandine suspects you guys recreated what tedg did 
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> kenvandine: but i think it's different
<dobey> kenvandine: our thing doesn't drive test through dbus, it's to prevent your dbus-using code in tests from interacting with live services
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i'll talk to ara to figure out what we should do asap
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ack
<kenvandine> dobey, ah, i think dbus-test-runner does both
<rickspencer3> don't forget, automated testing is a top priority
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, gotcha!
<rickspencer3> if you have to choose between writing a test and a feature
<rickspencer3> choose wisely ;)
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> kenvandine: well it's written for dealing with stuff in C/Vala too
<dobey> kenvandine: and our thing is for python unit test stuff :)
<dobey> kenvandine: as i understand it, anyway
<kenvandine> dobey, let me get opinion from you?  i know you rarely have strong opinions
<kenvandine> dobey, i have toyed with the idea of splitting the service modules out into separate dbus services, like telepathy does
<kenvandine> instead of having a big monolithic dispatcher that does everything and is long running
<kenvandine> so having the dispatcher that really just handles when and what gets done and handles the results
<kenvandine> then the service modules could be independent, and even kill themselves after they complete their job
<kenvandine> it would also simplify testing, because we could use dbus to test running operations
<kenvandine> and... i think it could help us improve the threading situation we have now
<dobey> well you could test each module independently and in better isolation too
<nessita> may I have a sponsorship for a natty package? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.2/+merge/40103
<kenvandine> dobey, right
<kenvandine> i also don't think it would be much work
<dobey> kenvandine: i suppose the main issue (which is probably a currenty issue anyway), is dealing with the timing and coordination of services, so you don't end up refreshing twitter 5 times simultaneously, if it's taking too long
<kenvandine> that isn't an issue right now
<kenvandine> but we could handle that
<kenvandine> i think it would be a huge improvement for testing purposes
<kenvandine> and make the long running process more efficient
<dobey> if the code is done right, i don't think it much matters one way or the other, but the current code is definitely not right :)
<seb128> nessita, ok
<kenvandine> and, people could then write plugins in any language they like
<nessita> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> you're welcome
<dobey> hrmm, need to do several MIR for narwhal
<jcastro> kenvandine: hey, for tomboy in unity for A1, we're doing the quicklist thing so that tomboy only appears in the launcher right?
<jcastro> we don't need it in the panel any more right?
<kenvandine> i think so
<kenvandine> they need to add a flag to make appindicator only display in unity
<kenvandine> or quicklist rather
<kenvandine> which i ran into with gwibber
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~kelemeng/software-properties/bug657835/+merge/38088
<seb128> mvo, can you review that please?
<jcastro> kenvandine: when you run into how to do that lmk or throw it in the wiki, I'll need to point app developers to it.
<jcastro> so they can just go in the launcher and not clutter up the top bar
<kenvandine> ok, you can't right now
<jcastro> right, I know we're blocking on ted. :)
<mvo> seb128: sure
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<kenvandine> jcastro, right now i am exploiting a bug in unity to make it not show in both places
<kenvandine> but lets not make tomboy do that
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> if njpatel fixes that bug before tedg adds the flag... i'll get both back
<kenvandine> it's a race :)
<njpatel> lol
<jcastro> kenvandine: what are we calling it when we blacklist apps from the top bar? Surely not "launcherify", which is what I've been calling it.
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> not sure
<kenvandine> i like that term :)
<cyphermox> I wrote this quick-ish script to parse entries from NEWS files and massage them into changelog -compatible format
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/525741/
<seb128> cyphermox, great, we had some hackish scripts to get number or formatting changelogs going around with didrocks
<seb128> yours seems better though
<seb128> we should probably start standardizing those in the team
<seb128> I usually just use "- bug title (lp: #)"
<cyphermox> just going a bit farther but it's inspired on a previous discussion on this with didrocks
<seb128> no upstream bug numbers or (authors), it becomes hard to read otherwise
<cyphermox> it ends up looking like this for evolution: http://paste.ubuntu.com/525742/
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> it's easy enough to filter out those, at least for the names I had already written the regex for it
<seb128> I will start a discussion about collecting those and making them standard
<seb128> it's probably a meeting topic for next week or at least worth mentioning then
<cyphermox> cool, yeah
<seb128> do we have anybody there still running lucid somewhere?
<cyphermox> pbuilder chroot fine?
<seb128> bug #501207
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 501207 in brasero (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "sound-juicer, rhythmbox, nautilus crash at audio CD insertion (affects: 18) (dups: 2) (heat: 106)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/501207
<seb128> looking for somebody to work on the sru basically
<seb128> if somebody wants feel free to claim it
<seb128> we might just want to do the 2.30.3 update
<seb128> or backport the fixes, which seems to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/501207/+attachment/1465325/+files/brasero.working.lucid.patch
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 501207 in brasero (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "sound-juicer, rhythmbox, nautilus crash at audio CD insertion (affects: 18) (dups: 2) (heat: 106)" [Medium,New]
<cyphermox> wow, that's pretty bad
<rickspencer3> seb128, still around at all?
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> seb128, any progress this week specific to the 2d experience?
<seb128> cyphermox, it seems to not happen to everybody or every time but yeah it can be annoying
<seb128> rickspencer3, in which regard? I would think the response is a no since we don't plan to change lot...
<cyphermox> seb128, there's just one thing I want to get out of the way but then I could steal a machine here and provision it to lucid to try to work on this
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, understood
<rickspencer3> it's a priority, so I was hoping to report on some progress for it each week
<seb128> rickspencer3, but in any case "no", just catching up post UDS and merges from debian
<rickspencer3> but it doesn't seem very specific
<didrocks> seb128: the only change is the first applet, isn't it? to use the one with the ubuntu logo?
<seb128> didrocks, change to what?
<seb128> didrocks, lack of context I think
<seb128> rickspencer3, I can do weekly summaries but there is not a lot to say for this week
<seb128> rickspencer3, you will get one next week ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: for the 2D experience, the first applet presented would be the "main menu" applet with only the ubuntu logo
<seb128> didrocks, ?!
<rickspencer3> seb128, don't do weekly summaries
<seb128> didrocks, where did you get that from?
<didrocks> seb128: was discussed in the 2D experience session
<rickspencer3> I'll glean what I need from activity reports and running the system
<rickspencer3> didrocks, can you paste a link to the blueprint
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok, feel free to ping with questions in any case
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think didrocks is correct, there were some modest changes planned to make 2D a bit more like Unity
<seb128> we said we would match unity
<rickspencer3> and there would be the global menu, of course ;)
<seb128> just use the indicator complet applet basically
<rickspencer3> there, I said it
<seb128> but still keep the 2 bars and most of the layout
<didrocks> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah, I think you'll need to think through the upgrade experience vs. the fresh install experience
<rickspencer3> and be conservative in the upgrade case
<seb128> right
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<ricotz> seb128, thanks for vala ;)
<ricotz> if you did that
<seb128> no, pitti did
<seb128> but you're welcome ;-)
<pitti> vala FTW
<ricotz> seb128, have you noticed that libvala-0.12-dev isnt providing libvala-dev?
<ricotz> is this intended?
<ricotz> pitti, ^
<pitti> certainly not; there should be a libvala-dev IMHO
<ricotz> looks like robert dropped that provide
<ricotz> libvala-dev is still provided by the old 0.10 package
<ricotz> so it this might need to be fixed :(
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, ok, the spec was not really clear by calling the applet [XXX correct name required] Gnome Menu applet,
<seb128> we need to change the indicator applets to use the unified one as well
<seb128> and add the appmenu one
<didrocks> seb128: agreed
<didrocks> and datetime as well?
<seb128> well that's not an applet
<seb128> it will be in the unified indicator
<seb128> we just need to seed it
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> and deal with removing the older one then?
<didrocks> as what was done with the user switching?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I don't plan to try to tweak updates
<didrocks> so, two date/time widget on upgrade?
<seb128> no way ;-)
<didrocks> you want to make datetime indicator hide if the applet is present?
<seb128> the way we handled the user switching is by providing the same bonobo id
<didrocks> ok, not possible for datetime then
<seb128> in the new case I think I will just make the first session run script delete the applet of the config if the indicator is on
<didrocks> I was sure it was hackish :)
<rodrigo_> ok, rebooting into natty (/me crosses fingers)
<seb128> it's a bit hackish as well
<seb128> but I don't have any better idea right now
<seb128> well "if the indicator is on and datetime installed"
<didrocks> seb128: TBH, I think I'll need this script as well for compiz settings migration (enabling unity plugin and such) so can be useful (but hackish, right)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will probably do an email to collect migrations we need to do this cycle at some point
<seb128> then we can decide where we put the migration code
<didrocks> sound like a plan :)
<seb128>  
<seb128> hey english speakers
<seb128> -    N_("Show user own process"), MY_PROCESSES }
<seb128> +    N_("Show user owned processes"), MY_PROCESSES }
<seb128> sounds fine to you?
<rodrigo_> ok, natty works, we can release today :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, new evo bug your way
<seb128> didrocks, you need to keep the one evo bug a day running ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: it's two for today! "count exceeded" :)
<seb128> didrocks, keep it for tomorrow ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, it's just the manpage not describing the --express
<didrocks> seb128: depends, can treat it today if you upgrade to the "premium count" :)
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry to fix nor sru needed
<didrocks> account*
<seb128> lol
<seb128> didrocks, I've a premium whip, does it work as well? :-p
 * didrocks runsâ¦
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> :)
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<didrocks> seb128: ok, let's got that SRU accepted first, can queue it later with other bugs
<seb128> right
<seb128> mpt, hey
<mpt> hi seb128
<seb128> mpt,
<seb128>  -    N_("Show user own process"), MY_PROCESSES }
<seb128>  +    N_("Show user owned processes"), MY_PROCESSES }
<seb128> does that seem fine to you?
<seb128> that's the statusbar text for the gnome-system-monitor entry to display only the processes of the current user
<mpt> What are user owned processes?
<seb128> mpt, https://launchpad.net/bugs/214148
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 214148 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Bad status tip on My Processes menu (heat: 7)" [Low,Triaged]
<mpt> oh, I see it
<mpt> seb128, should be "user-owned", not "user owned"
<seb128> mpt, can you drop a comment in the bug saying that?
<mpt> k
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<mpt> done
<seb128> mpt, thank you
<jcastro> seb128: didrocks: I split up the work items in the application selection blueprint to be more milestone based, adjust if needed.
<seb128> jcastro, ok
<mpt> seb128, in return, could you please let through the message that ckpringle has just sent to gnomecc-list@? :-)
<seb128> mpt, done
<rodrigo_> hmm, we have a lot of patches in g-s-d package, looking at applying them upstream
<didrocks> jcastro: ok, thanks :)
<seb128> jcastro, could you change mono-team for an existing one?
<seb128> rodrigo_, great
<seb128> rodrigo_, ask there if you don't know what patches do
<rodrigo_> seb128, so far they seem easy
<rodrigo_> but yeah, will ask
<rodrigo_> we need to review them all, since most of them won't apply
<rodrigo_> in 2.91, so it'd be better to have them upstream
<jcastro> seb128: well, it needs a person right? I didn't just want to assign them to laney without asking
<Laney> jcastro: we have ubuntu-cli-mono-dev which is a LP team
<Laney> dunno if that works
<Laney> otherwise I am fine for that
<seb128> re
<seb128> jcastro, sorry got some wifi installability
<seb128> changing ap in use
<rodrigo_> seb128, one question, why do we change the .ad files installed by g-s-d in /usr/share/gnome-settings-daemon/xrdb/* to /etc/gnome/config ?
<seb128> jcastro, I think a team works as well
<Laney> yeah i suggested ubuntu-cli-mono-dev
<seb128> rodrigo_, because /etc is for system config I think
<seb128> rodrigo_, the debian and ubuntu systems preserve changes to files in etc on upgrade
<seb128> where it just replaces those in /usr
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, so if we put something in /etc sysadmins can tweak them
<rodrigo_> so not sure why g-s-d installs that stuff in share
<seb128> dunno either
<rodrigo_> well, it installs it there, and then it reads from /etc/xrdb
<seb128> seems buggy
<jcastro> fixed
<seb128> I guess nobody cares about xrdb out of us
<seb128> jcastro, thanks!
<seb128> rodrigo_, 02_fix_randr.patch might just need to be dropped
<seb128> we might want to look what happens without it
<rodrigo_> yes, I was waiting for federico to ask him
<rodrigo_> but he's not around
<seb128> I doubt configs just fail to apply for other distros, it probably got fixed differently
<rodrigo_> yes, looks so
<seb128> rodrigo_, 02_missing_libs.patch is probably safe to apply
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> 03_maintainer_mode.patch is a matter of taste
<seb128> it's useful for distro because it means autotools will not be ran when you do any patching
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can ignore 08_xrandr_command.patch for trunk
<seb128> rodrigo_, it just reverted a commit that changed the command for the new g-c-c
<seb128> but since 2.32 still had the old g-c-c...
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> it might be something to commit to gnome-2-32 though
<seb128> rodrigo_, 70_migrate_touchpad_config.patch can be dropped
<seb128> it was a migration from our old capplet tab to the one which went upstream
<seb128> some of the gconf keys were different
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> 91_update_gvc_source.patch has a bug upstream
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we probably could have dropped the touchapd one last cycle, sorry, i forgot about that ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, don't worry, I'll drop it now :)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, 99_ltmain_as-needed.patch is a debian thing to workaround libtool issues
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't worry about it
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, can be dropped
<rodrigo_> ?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> it's fixed with the dso build in the new toolchain
<seb128> ie --as--needed by default
<Laney> really?
<Laney> that's awesome!
<Laney> can it be upstreamed? debian has been arguing about this for ages it seems
<seb128> Laney, http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<seb128> I think it's fixed by that
<seb128> Laney, but it's for next cycle for debian
<Laney> great
<Laney> look forward to dropping those
 * rodrigo_ needs to do some shopping, bbl
<didrocks> seb128: I'm quite unclear if there is still needed to patch ltmain.sh to take -Wl,--as-needed by default or if it's passed directly to the linker now (as ltmain.sh comes from upstream autotools)
<seb128> didrocks, doko asked me to drop those ltmain.sh patches
<seb128> he said it breaks things with the new toolchain rather
<didrocks> seb128: ok, great then :)
<hyperair> ooh, if those 99 ltmain patches are dropped, then i can use 3.0 (quilt) for autoreconf'd packages! right now i need to hook onto dh_quilt_patch and make sure autogen is run first
<didrocks> so, it's directly the linker dealing with it
<seb128> didrocks, right
<didrocks> seb128: good news, thanks for the info
<seb128> np
<seb128> didrocks, you can read the first lines of http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking about that
<didrocks> seb128: well, even after reading it yesterday, I was still unclear if it was just -Wl,--as-needed by default but if ltmain.sh was still needed or not to be patched to take that option
<seb128> I think not
<seb128> I could be wrong though but doko asked to drop those patches so I think we should be ok
<didrocks> yeah, if doko told you that, it should be ok :) (just I don't like black magic. Hope to get some time to ask him/have a look :))
<ari-tczew> seb128: about bug 470550: it won't be applied. see more on branch comments.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 470550 in coreutils (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "uname -p and uname -i reporting `unknown' (affects: 5) (heat: 44)" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470550
<seb128> ari-tczew, thanks, I unsubscribe the sponsors
<ari-tczew> Sure. Dunno why ubuntu-sponsors exist there.
<seb128> didrocks, could you sponsor bug #84853?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 84853 in yelp (Ubuntu) "too many instances of "Ubuntu" on yelp frontpage (dups: 1) (heat: 17)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84853
<didrocks> seb128: sure
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> mvo, could you add https://code.launchpad.net/~ronj/software-properties/doubleclickSourceline/+merge/23891 to your review list as well?
<mvo> seb128: sure, thanks
<mvo> seb128: looks like you are on a review freezy today :)
<seb128> mvo, thanks you
<seb128> mvo, yeah, trying to clean the sponsoring queue a bit
<seb128> it didn't get much work since release
<seb128> or at least main didn't
<seb128> the universe part is clean ;-)
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> really? crazy!
<and471> hey mvo how was uds?
<mvo> hey and471
<mvo> and471: nice, you saw us on the live stream, right .) ?
<and471> mvo, well yeah I heard you :)
<mvo> and471: heh :)
<mvo> and471: kind of spooky to be on TV
<mvo> (well, stream)
<and471> mvo, I watched at bit of the video recordings afterwards tho, so for the general ui session, yes I did see you guys :D
<mvo> and471: you have the advantage over us now! next uds you will be able to identify us
<and471> mvo, it was quite spooky as well when I typed in a question, and then I'd hear later "There is a question on IRC from andrew ...."
<and471> mvo, well yeah, during the video stream I tried to look at launchpad profile pics to see who everyone was
<and471> mvo, or guess from the conversation
<and471> mvo, I guess that it quite a shock at uds, especially for those who live farther away form you, you have no clue what they look like, or how they sound, just their IRC nick :)
<and471> *from
<and471> mvo, I have been working on this just recently, I used nzmm's great developerweek session http://videobin.org/+2d2/2nm.html
<and471> it is an iphone style on/off toggle switch
<and471> mvo, also more SC related, here is something to think about http://videobin.org/+2ao/2l8.html , with the actual video here http://ubuntuone.com/p/Nlk/
<mvo> and471: thanks, watching
<and471> mvo, np
<mvo> and471: heh :) a video
<mvo> and471: a video in a video! (video (video))
<mvo> and471: that is actually a longer term goal
<and471> mvo, the ubuntuone link is a better video that I improved
<and471> mvo, cool
<mvo> and471: but we don't have a good server yet
<mvo> and471: it should be easy on the client, the server part needs a bit of love
<and471> mvo, I had the idea of 30-second videos, so that we can really squeeze it all in and be at a good file size
<mvo> and471: how big are those?
<and471> mvo, the webm file is only 1.3mb
<and471> mvo, and that it quite good (I think)
<mvo> and471: I think thats a great idea, the server code is not hard
<and471> *is
<mvo> and471: woah
<mvo> and471: \o/
<and471> mvo, webm is pretty awesome and open as well!
<and471> mvo, also I figured that without sound, it seems a bit strange, so I had the idea that you can use sound, but only sound from the package itself
<mvo> and471: sounds good - the stuff in use is "debshots" on the server
<mvo> and471: I think it should be straightforard to extend that
<and471> yeah, I guess you would have to merge that and videobin to get what we want :)
<mvo> and471: its all nice python
<and471> mvo, I have to confess I have never used djanjo
<and471> (i think it is in djanjo)
<mvo> its something else, but I forgot what it was - but it is
<mvo> straightfop
<mvo> forward
<mvo> I hacked a little in it
<mvo> and the upstream guy is super nice
<and471> yeah I emailed him a bit about something..can't remember
<and471> and he seemed cool
<and471> mvo, anyway if you see nzmm tell him thanks for that custom widget tutorial
<and471> and if you see mpt, could you show him that custom widget screencast? His networking mockups have that widget, this was actually the inspiration to start making it :)
<and471> mvo, I shall start trying to do some SC stuff soon, I have just been floating around between projects, but SC is a lot nicer to work on :)
<kiwinote> ;)
<and471> :)
<and471> hey kiwinote
<kiwinote> hey andy
<mvo> and471: heh - yeah! with gstreamer he video should be straightforwward
<mvo> hey kiwinote! did you had a good trip back?
<and471> kiwinote, are you in the uk?
<mvo> and471: network widget?
<and471> umm
<and471> mvo, not for SC, this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
<and471> under âNetwork Settingsâ window
<kiwinote> hey mvo - yep it was quite a smooth trip back. How about you - did you manage to find something to do during your wait at the airport?
<mvo> and471: aha, ok
<and471> mvo, mpt is a busy guy :)
<kiwinote> and471: yep, in the uk during term time, nl most of the rest of the time
<mvo> kiwinote: yeah, plenty of other people around
<mvo> kiwinote: so it was fine :)
<mvo> and471: indeed
<and471> kiwinote, ah I never knew! where do you go?
<kiwinote> uni of warwick
<and471> kiwinote, studying?
<kiwinote> yep - maths
<and471> kiwinote, nice :)
<kiwinote> and471: how about you - coming to uni soon, or still at high school?
<and471> kiwinote, sixth form college
<and471> kiwinote, so in two years uni :)
<kiwinote> computer science or something else? (or undecided as of now ;) )
<and471> kiwinote, probs maths or computer science
<kiwinote> nice ;)
<and471> hehe
<kiwinote> if you happen to come past for an open day, be sure to give a shout ;)
<and471> will do :)
<and471> kiwinote, mvo, anyway gotta go, nice speaking to you both, and see ya soon!
<kiwinote> see you
<mvo> have fun
<didrocks> ok, dinner, sport and sleep :) see you tomorrow
<mterry> seb128, heyo, was gtk3 good?  Should it go to natty?
<TheMuso> c
<tremolux> rickspencer3: heyo, around?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: I want to runs something by you about the new-apps spec:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
<tremolux> rickspencer3: basically, after related discussions at UDS, I can identify no additional work that needs to be done in Software Center for this in Natty
<tremolux> rickspencer3: so I'm thinking of retargeting back to maverick, as it is essentially complete
<tremolux> kiwinote: hey!
<rickspencer3> tremolux, yeah, I believe software-center itself can sit tight for this cycle
<rickspencer3> (related to new apps)
<rickspencer3> mterry and didrocks have a different reality ;)
<tremolux> heh
<tremolux> rickspencer3: well, we do have stuff to do/fix, but so far it seems manageable
<tremolux> :)
<tremolux> sorry for didrocks and mterry  8^O
 * mterry rocks out in his reality bubble
<tremolux> mterry: haha!!
<tremolux> rickspencer3: but ok, yes, for new-apps, we seem good
<tremolux> rickspencer3: sorry, back...so, I'm not sure how to close out the blueprint, do I just reset the Series Goal to Natty?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: sorry, reset to *Maverick*
<tremolux> rickspencer3: I'd JFDI, but, sometimes with blueprints in LP there's a way to do it, and a way not to do it
<dobey> afaik blueprints don't get 'closed' but rather just get their status changed to 'completed' or 'implemented' or whatever it is
<tremolux> dobey: yeah, except this blueprint from maverick was retargeted (and approved) for Natty
<tremolux> dobey: so it went from "Implemented" in maverick back to the "Unknown" state
<dobey> ah
<tremolux> dobey: so, I would think I should just reset those two fields..
<dobey> well i wish the worst of my problems right now was deciding the best way to mark a blueprint as done :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, check this out! http://www.gnu.org/software/pythonwebkit/
<rickspencer3> seems like it could make webkit UI a bit more testable!
<kenvandine> yeah... i actually tried building that during UDS :)
<kenvandine> but fails in all kinds of strange ways
<rickspencer3> oh well
<rickspencer3> we'd only need it to run well enough for a testing environment
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, did it fail to build, or not work after it was built?
<kenvandine> fail to build
<rickspencer3> ah
<kenvandine> well, it needed webkitgtk from git
<kenvandine> which failed to build
<kenvandine> aquarius and ryan were very keen on that
<tremolux> rickspencer3: did you see my comments about the new-apps blueprint?  shall I reset the series goal to "Maverick" and reset implementation to "Implemented"?
<rickspencer3> tremolux, if it's done, set it to implemented
<rickspencer3> if there are more work items, set it to Maverick
<rickspencer3> hth, I'm not sure what you need there :/
<tremolux> rickspencer3: no, all work items are DONE
<rickspencer3> then set it to Implemented!
<rickspencer3> nice
<tremolux> so I just set it to Implemented, but it still shows up in the Natty list
<tremolux> rickspencer3: assume that's ok?  sorry for annoying questions  :-/
<rickspencer3> tremolux, np, man, any time
<tremolux> rickspencer3: thx  :)
<rickspencer3> tremolux, can you paste me a link?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-apps-stable-release
<kenvandine> this indicator-me bug is definitely a weird race condition, it gets the focus-out signal the same time it gets the grab-focus and focus-in signals!
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I untargetted it from Natty
<tremolux> rickspencer3: ah great, thanks
<XVampireX> Hey what's up again?
<ricotz> robert_ancell, hi, could you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/671104
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 671104 in vala (Ubuntu) "libvala-0.12-dev missing provide for libvala-dev (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<robert_ancell> ricotz, ok
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do we still need the 500.000 files in tracker? Debian has 65.000 dirs, which ought to be enough for a reasonable home dir, and avoids some overhead
<chrisccoulson> pitti - not sure. that's currently the only change isn't it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll sync the Debian package now (I need it to drop the second-last libdevkit-power dependency)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right
<chrisccoulson> pitti - last time i checked, the debian maintainer added a patch which changed an ontology
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just discussed it with mbiebl, and we think that 65.000 ought to be enough
<chrisccoulson> please don't sync that change if it's still there :)
<pitti> okay
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I think he reverted it, I'll check
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yep, confirmed that this was reverted
<pitti> -fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 65536
<pitti> +fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 524288
<pitti> it's our only diff
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: are you okay with squashing this?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, can do
<pitti> so the only remaining one is packagekit-gnome
<pitti> I'll get that ported, then we have one crufty library less and can update upower
<ricotz> robert_ancell, thanks
<robert_ancell> ricotz, np
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-05
<icek> hey i have ubuntu on my macbook, it only has up to 1280X800 resolution, its too low, driving me crazy, how do i make it higher?
<icek> ???
<icek> ??
<icek> ?
<icek> hi, my resolution is 1280 - 800 how do i make it higher?
<RAOF> icek: This channel is for development, not troubleshooting.  I suggest asking your question in #ubuntu, ubuntuforums.org, or askubuntu.com
<RAOF> It's also entirely possible that 1280x800 is the maximum resolution of your display; for example, I have a macbook with a 1280x800 display
<icek> i have a macbook
<icek> 1280 800 looks smaller in ubuntu than in osx
<bcurtiswx> mess with DPI, may help, Mac's go with like 72DPI i _think_ we go with 90DPI by default IIRC
<icek> does anyone have a link to some really modern themes?
<icek> bcurtiswx how do i change it to 72?
<bcurtiswx> System --> Preferences --> Appearance | Fonts Tab | Details Button
<bcurtiswx> if anything, whether i'm completely off or not, play around with whatever DPI you like the best
<icek> DPI? dots per inch?
<bcurtiswx> yup
<icek> where do i change DPI?
<bcurtiswx> top
<icek> ?
<bcurtiswx> The titlebar of the window you should be in should say "Font Rendering Details"
<icek> System-preferences-appearance preferences?
<bcurtiswx> System-->Preferences--Appearance
<bcurtiswx> click the "fonts" tab on the top
<icek> k
<icek> there
<bcurtiswx> ton the bottom right above "close" you should see a button that says "Details"
<icek> hey thats pretty good
<icek> anyone know a really good osx theme?
<icek> :D
<bcurtiswx> Radiance
<bcurtiswx> Any questions past this point, you should probably go to #ubuntu , they are the genereal support channel.   have to go to bed myself, another long day tomorrow
<bcurtiswx> nite all
<Zdra> morning
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hmm, what's the magic in debian/rules to build a package whose upstream tarball doesn't have autogen.sh nor configure?
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> what do they use?
<rodrigo_> it's got a configure.ac, just no configure/autogen.sh
<zyga> odd, the whole point is to ship configure, well
<rodrigo_> yeah, seems to be broken
<zyga> rodrigo_, you can generate the appropriate stuff but I'm not dh guru to spell how to do that properly
<rodrigo_> yeah, running autoconf/automake should do it, but no idea how to do it via dh
<didrocks> rodrigo_: dh 7?
<seb128> rodrigo_, use dh-autoreconf
<rodrigo_> yes, dh 7
 * zyga needs to learn the dh build targets/sequence eventually
<seb128> dh_autoreconf
<seb128> rodrigo_, install dh-autoreconf and man dh-autoreconf
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> dh --with autoreconf $@
<seb128> basically
<seb128> it will run autoreconf
<seb128> which should give you a configure
<rodrigo_> seb128, btwe, this is libsocialweb, got it from universe
<seb128> ok
<huats> morning
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello se
<huats> seb128,
<didrocks> salut huats
<huats> o/ didrocks
<seb128> rodrigo_, I pushed a new g-s-d to natty and the vcs btw
<seb128> you might want to rebase your work
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, I'm still revieweing the patches and pushing them upstream
<rodrigo_> seb128, a new 2.32.x?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes, just packaging changes
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> I updated the .install to install the datetime polkit service
<seb128> we didn't do it last cycle because we didn't update gnome-panel
<seb128> so we were still using the gnome-panel one
<seb128> I cleaned the touchpad and ltmain patches while I was at it
<seb128> it's a pretty trivial revision ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks for upstream those patches btw
<rodrigo_> well, it's much more work to having to rebase them :)
<seb128> don't tell me ;-)
<seb128> we slacked on some of those but some were in bugzilla sitting
<seb128> the annoying one with be the appindicator one
<rodrigo_> yes, that part has changed a lot
<rodrigo_> I will rebase it on Monday though, when I do a new release
<seb128> do you know what upstream plans to do for the keyboard indicator?
<seb128> I think g-s will not have a notification area to display that icon?
<rodrigo_> yes, it has one
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I though they wanted to get ride of it
<seb128> there is a GNOME wikipage about what to do about notification area icons
<rodrigo_> well, not sure what the exact plans are, but I see a notification area in gnome-shell
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo/+bug/271283 has been fixed in OpenOffice?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 271283 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Jaunty) (and 4 other projects) "[ooo-build] OpenOffice.org subpixel font rendering broken with new cairo (affects: 3) (dups: 2) (heat: 55)" [Medium,Fix released]
<rodrigo_> there's a patch in the g-s-d package for working it around
<rodrigo_> seems not, from the novell bug
<seb128> I guess not
<seb128> I think there was a bug upstream about this patch
<rodrigo_> ah, it's already fixed upstream, yes
<seb128> when,where has it been fixed? just curious
<rodrigo_> hmm, let me check the history
<rodrigo_> commit 6cf315249ab27d4396b0f5b5edb1e689a5cafc68
<rodrigo_> Author: Chris Coleman <chrsclmn@gmail.com>
<rodrigo_> Date:   Sat Oct 16 01:44:12 2010 +0100
<rodrigo_>     xsettings: Export Xft.lcdfilter for OO.o's benefit
<rodrigo_>     
<rodrigo_>     Export Xft.lcdfilter legacy setting for the benefit of OpenOffice.org
<rodrigo_>     which doesn't follow the other fontconfig settings.
<rodrigo_>     
<rodrigo_>     https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=631924
<ubot2> Gnome bug 631924 in xsettings "patch to fix subpixel font rendering with openoffice" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> ok great
<rodrigo_> ok, only 7 patches left!
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> hey ricotz
<seb128> rodrigo_, which ones?
<ricotz> seb128, is it considered to ship develement releases of gtk+2.0 2.24 parallel to gtk+3.0?
<seb128> ricotz, yes, we will not drop gtk2 in one cycle
<seb128> I think gtk2 is going to be around for some years
<ricotz> seb128, for example because of the changed location of the recent files list
<ricotz> seb128, yeah i know, i actually meant doing these update concurrent with eachother
<seb128> yes as time permit, you are welcome to work on that if you want
<seb128> we are just a small team with lot of work
<seb128> and 2.23 is not the priority right now
<rodrigo_> seb128, 02_missing_libs.patch                   71_fix_ldsm_notification_crash.patch
<rodrigo_> 05_disable_corner_tapping.patch         91_update_gvc_source.patch
<rodrigo_> 06_use_application_indicator.patch      series
<rodrigo_> 16_use_synchronous_notifications.patch
<seb128> we will get it in the next weeks
<rodrigo_> 02 is probably going upstream, and still looking at 71 and 91
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, 02, 71 and 91
<ricotz> seb128, ok
<seb128> should be easy to upstream
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, well 91 is basically updating the source copy from gnome-media
<seb128> there is a bug upstream about that I think
<seb128> let me check
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, which I think is already done
<seb128> there was an issue there and I pinged bastien and commented on the bug I think
<seb128> but he didn't reply
<seb128> he probably missed the ping
<rodrigo_> I'll check with him now
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think that was https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612024
<ubot2> Gnome bug 612024 in plugins "Memory leak in gnome-setting-daemon" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=605694 has the patch we use
<ubot2> Gnome bug 605694 in gnome-volume-control "gnome-volume-control-applet never frees/finalizes PA channel maps." [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<rodrigo_> oh, it's marked as resolved
<seb128> well it's part of the patch on comment #3 on the g-s-d bug as well
<seb128> dunno why it didn't made in?
<seb128> oh, it did some weeks ago
<seb128> could be fixed in master then
<seb128> did you check if that's the case?
<seb128> dunno why he let is sleep for half a year before commiting
<rodrigo_> yes, seems it's ok in master
<seb128> rodrigo_, the 71_fix_ldsm_notification_crash.patch one was from chrisccoulson
<seb128> just for info
<seb128> not sure if you want to credit patch authors in commits
<seb128> (though you commited that one now)
<chrisccoulson> grrrrrr, why are garages so useless!
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, didn't know, so no chrisccoulson on the git commit :(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what did they do to you car?
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, no worry, you couldn't guess since he didn't upstream the patch not added infos in it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the engine management light keeps coming on on my car, and all they seem capable of doing is guessing what the fault is or just resetting it so the light comes back on again a few days later
<chrisccoulson> i think i'll have to just figure it out myself ;)
<seb128> what car brand?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's a ford
 * seb128 notes to not buy one of those ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> we did have a french car before, but it was too small ;)
<chrisccoulson> (although, the engine management light never came on!)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, go to another garage, usually they're very bad, so it's hard to find one with good workers
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, yeah, that might be my next step
<rodrigo_> hey pedro_!!
<pedro_> hello rodrigo_!
<rodrigo_> pedro_, already recovered from last week?
<pedro_> rodrigo_, yeah almost, still feeling a bit of ubuflu though
<rodrigo_> oh :(
<pedro_> rodrigo_, how are you? was your trip back ok?
<rodrigo_> you shouldn't go out at nights with danilo :)
<rodrigo_> well, a bit long, as always, but ok
<pedro_> haha , yeah i blame the Serbians :-P
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> pedro_: of course, that has always been that :)
<didrocks> hey pedro_!
 * pedro_ hugs didrocks
<pedro_> hello didrocks! :-)
 * didrocks hugs pedro_ back
<seb128> hey pedro_
<seb128> pedro_, got the chilian flu?
<seb128> I got it once, it's no fun indeed!
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<pedro_> i got the French or Serbian one
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pedro_
 * pedro_ hugs seb128 back
<rodrigo_> this time it was serbian, yes :)
<rodrigo_> but not sure why, but I never get the ubuflu
<rodrigo_> I'll shut up though, just in case for next time :)
<TheMuso> u/c
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
 * pitti hugs seb128
<pitti> TGIF! :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> TGIF?
<seb128> pitti, how is plumbers going?
<pitti> seb128: well, after two weeks of confs you start wearing out
<seb128> pitti, when do you fly back?
<pitti> seb128: talks yesterday were moderately interesting; today I'm mostly looking forward to the hardware detection BoF
<pitti> seb128: tomorrow evening
<seb128> ok
<davmor2> pitti: surely UDS is more intense than a standard conf
<pitti> yes, it is, and much more interactive
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<seb128> nessita, hey
<seb128> nessita, I didn't forget about your sponsoring requests don't worry, I will get to those in a bit
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<mterry> seb128, hey, so what happened with gtk3?
<seb128> mterry, sorry I forgot to come back to you yesterday and I was away
<seb128> when you pinged
<seb128> mterry, I got sidetracked in other post UDS catchup things
<seb128> mterry, go for it and upload I would say
<seb128> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/gtk/gtk3-fix-611011/+merge/40164 would be nice to merge in before upload maybe
<seb128> mterry, and -v<version> correctly to ship all changelogs entry for gtk3 on upload please
<seb128> mterry, can you merge https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3/+merge/39997 as well if you think it's ready?
<mterry> seb128, ok.  So I upload and it will go to NEW queue and all that?
<seb128> we will follow with other uploads once pitti accepts gtk3
<seb128> mterry, yes, but pitti will review it when he has a free slot
<seb128> I don't think it's any hurry to get it in, but first step is to upload
<seb128> ;-)
<mterry> seb128, I didn't follow about -v<version>
<seb128> mterry, bzr bd --source -- -v2.22.0
<seb128> or whatever was the previous changelog entry to reach the archive
<seb128> ie just make sure all the work on 3.0 is in the .changes
<seb128> not only the current changelog entry
<seb128> so the natty-changes email list all the work and contributors
<mterry> seb128, ah, neat.  I don't do any cleanup on debian/changelog itself then?
<didrocks> hey mterry
<seb128> rather than having a entry "upload to natty"
<seb128> mterry, your call, it's like cleaning git history before merging, some people do some don't
<seb128> I would just include all the debian and ppa entry in the debuild -S
<mterry> k
 * mterry high fives didrocks
 * mterry sits down and has a chat with gtk3
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mterry, chrisccoulson: you guys need to run for main upload rights
<seb128> just telling
<kenvandine> seb128, me too! :)
<mterry> seb128, the requirements for office there are even vaguer than MOTU
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, right, but you are on track so I didn't feel like you needed to be reminded ;-)
<kenvandine> :-D
<seb128> mterry, you just need enough people to vouch for you
<seb128> mterry, which you will get for sure
 * mterry starts handing out fivers
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 high fives mterry
<mterry> heh
<seb128> mterry, technically you have upload right on the desktop set already
<seb128> mterry, since you have been added to ubuntu-desktop
<mterry> oh yeah
<mterry> curious
<mterry> I should do more merges then
<seb128> but still you can't help cleaning the sponsoring queue with that :p
<seb128> there is lot out of desktop world
<mterry> I was looking at the queue the other day.  It's only like 75 deep?  Doesn't seem so bad
<seb128> it was 110 yesterday
<seb128> and 110 over what it should be apparently ;-)
<mterry> I just thought from the way everyone talked about it, it was at like a 1000
<seb128> we would be in trouble if that was the case ;-)
<seb128> mterry, the issue is not really the number but rather the delay
<seb128> we often have things sitting for weeks or months
<seb128> which is enough to drive contributors away
<seb128> and we would prefer to get contributors staying and helping that running away because we ignored them ;-)
<mterry> seb128, so only uncommitted changes we want for this gtk3 push is --enable-introspection=no for non-shared build and the merge of printing-to-Documents, right?
<seb128> mterry, yes sir
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, "(perl removal) Drop libgnome-perl recommends from gdebi/synaptics/apturl/ubuntu-desktop:"
<seb128> pitti, did somebody agreed to use the ncurse debconf ui or what?N
<seb128> -N
<pitti> seb128: didn't we?
<seb128> I don't think we did
<pitti> seb128: anyway, I'd rather do that through seeding
<seb128> pitti, but https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debconf/+bug/415038
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 415038 in debconf (Debian) (and 2 other projects) "port GNOME frontend to GtkAssistant (affects: 1) (heat: 13)" [Unknown,New]
<seb128> pitti, which has a patch waiting for cjwatson to review
<seb128> pitti, that will drop the libgnome2-perl use
<seb128> it will still use libgtk2-perl though
<seb128> not sure if you aimed to drop libgnome2-perl only or the whole gtk-perl stack
<mterry> seb128, and you want the libcanberra pushed too?  (not clear if merged just meant to bzr or ubuntu + PPA)
<pitti> well, *shrug*, it's an awful amount of packages for a tiny feature, but if people think it's more important than evo contacts sync, then let's drop the latter instead
<pitti> seb128: my original plan was the whole perl stack
<seb128> mterry, merge to bzr and ppa upload for now I would say
<seb128> pitti, ok, go for it then
<seb128> pitti, I was unsure if we agreed on the ncurse backend use
<seb128> but I guess a normal install shouldn't see any debconf anyway
<seb128> pitti, I still wanted to point the debconf bug to clean libgnome2-perl in case that's useful to you
<pitti> seb128: with the recommends dropped, we can seed it back, and it's much easier to toggle on/off
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: right, it still will be if we want to bring it back
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> pitti, spec approved
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> np
<mterry> seb128, one last question, hopefully.  I was planning to create a new ~ubuntu-desktop/libcanberra/ubuntugtk3 branch, but would you prefer to keep it in-trunk based on perception of imminent release?
<jcastro> hey cyphermox, I filed a bunch of bugs for multimonitor stuff on unity
<jcastro> if you want to confirm them or whatever
<cyphermox> cool
<komputes> hey popey ucasts.tv looks nice! Whats to become of screencasts.ubuntu.com? And more importantly, what that little thing in the corner that shows the mouse buttons and option keys?
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<popey> komputes: someone else has taken over screencasts.ubuntu.com :)
<popey> komputes: and it's called key-mon
<popey> http://code.google.com/p/key-mon/
<seb128> mterry, sorry I was out for a bit
<seb128> mterry, yeah, trunk is fine, it will go in when gtk3 is accepted
<komputes> popey: awesome. should be in a PPA. perhaps a Screencast Team PPA.
<popey> :)
<thekorn> didrocks: hi, I just found out you pushed a fix for bug 659244. But I somehow can't find the package you mention in -proposed, do you have any idea what's going on there?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 659244 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Tracks synced to iphone won't play (affects: 22) (dups: 3) (heat: 138)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659244
<seb128> thekorn, there is a proposed freeze until next week
<didrocks> thekorn: it's not approved yet you will get a message once approved and built
<seb128> thekorn, cf email from a week ago on u-d, freeze for linaro
<thekorn> okidoki, looks like I missed it
<seb128> thekorn, the uploads also need somebody from ubuntu-sru to review and approved them
<didrocks> (waow, it's the 3rd time today I have to explain that :))
<seb128> so it usually takes some day
<thekorn> thanks
<seb128> especially during uds time when nobody is online
<komputes> popey: whats a good tool to cut and edit ogg files without having to re-encode
<popey> komputes: pitivi?
<popey> oh, without encoding, pass
<popey> I try not to edit :)
<komputes> popey: because every time i cut, re-encode with pitivi it looks very bad
<komputes> pixels and blur
<popey> komputes: the defaults in pitivi are insane
<popey> nobody would encode and watch a video using the defaults
<popey> I should file a bug about it, it makes pitivi look pretty awful
<komputes> popey: are you serious? you never edit your screencasts, the recording / voice track etc.
<popey> the two that I just uploaded to ucasts.tv had zero editing
<popey> and it shows in places :)
<popey> that doesn't mean they worked first time! I recorded about 5 times and messed something up or fluffed what I said so I just started again.
<komputes> I don't know if I could make screencasts that make people wait. I want the ability to make parts of the screencast fast forward, pitivi does not have this.
<popey> with a 5 minute video it's faster to start again than it is to edit
<popey> the screencast app has a pause button :)
<komputes> popey: I wish avidemux worked with ogg
<popey> I wish I had a pony :)
<komputes> me too!
<mterry> I suspect owning a pony is not the double-rainbow it's made out to be
<komputes> err... the screencast app has a pause **menu**
<popey> CTRL+ALT+P
<komputes> nice
<komputes> that'll help
<popey> and yes, the menu is insane also
<popey> the one example where having an indicator menu makes very little sense
<komputes> mterry: i pitty da fool who don't like pony maintenance
<komputes> popey: omg, i had such trouble with the indicator menu recently
<mterry> komputes, at the least at this stage in our lives (post-7th-grade), we should be wishing for horses or ponies with steel-reinforced backs
<komputes> popey: I added all the ubuntu image torrents to transmission and the program was notifying 10 seconds me for every torrent that was added.
<mterry> komputes, or hell, just go straight for the jetpack
<komputes> mterry: you lack vision, ponies and only ponies I say
<komputes> mterry: ok, pony on a hovercraft
 * mterry in a jetpack zooms by komputes pulling his hoverboard pony out of water (fool, everyone knows hoverboards don't work on water), doing loop-de-loops into the sunset
<komputes> popey: Killed transmission, but it kept goin! ahh, child processes! it would have taken an hour to stop being notified if I didn't kill the process.
<popey> It is very clearly friday.
 * komputes thinks physics fail
<mterry> popey, let us never relegate hoverboard ponies just to Friday
<komputes> Any chance of getting notification preferences or at least a quick way to turn them off when they get anoying or when you're doing a presentation at a conference and the projector is up and your enraged ex-girlfriend feels like being a spaz ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, are we creating a ~ubuntu-desktop branch for gsettings-desktop-schemas?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> mterry, ^
<seb128> can you review that for rodrigo_ and sponsor if ready?
<rodrigo_> ok, I ask because I just saw my libcanberra branch merged, thanks mterry btw :)
<mterry> np!
<mterry> seb128, sure.  rodrigo_, is there a merge proposal for your branch?  link me to it or your branch
<rodrigo_> no merge proposal, since there is no ~ubuntu-desktop branch, it's a new package
<rodrigo_> but I have a branhc
<rodrigo_> let me find the url
<rodrigo_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas
<rodrigo_> btw, for a package that is in universe, do we want to keep the history of that package when moving it to main?
<rodrigo_> (librest and libsocialweb)
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: do you have a moment?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, if you have a branch for me, yes :-)
<mterry> rodrigo_, yeah
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, I do, so what's up?
<kklimonda_> I do actually, can I send you a pm?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, yes
<seb128> mterry, when you get things uploaded to NEW please let pitti know
<mterry> seb128, yup.  Fixed a gail-doc oddity, not figuring out the gtk-doc one
<mterry> /not/now/
<seb128> ok
<seb128> btw https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3
<mterry> (bad links and conflicting files with 2.0)
<seb128> if you think of things that will need a gtk3 please add them
<seb128> either on the alpha1 workitem list
<seb128> if that's for the stack
<seb128> or add bug reports about those
<seb128> mterry, can I keep dumping tasks on you? ;-)
<mterry> rodrigo_, gsettings-desktop-schemas looked good to me.  Pushed to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas for now.  Seemed odd to have a -dev package without a library, but makes sense.  I did fix the debian/copyright to not point to specific tarball, but rather general ftp area though
<mterry> seb128, sure, if you have another
<seb128> mterry, you can upload to natty ^
<seb128> mterry, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-cleaning
<rodrigo_> mterry, right, it has a .h file
<rodrigo_> mterry, but no lib
<seb128> mterry, the usb-create and nautilus-share bugs
<seb128> they should be pretty trivial to fix
<seb128> if you want to tackle them
<seb128> usb-creator
<hyperair> is this regarding libgnome?
<seb128> they both have like a 1 function call from libgnome
<seb128> hyperair, yes
<hyperair> right
<hyperair> well, if anyone gets around to it, please ping me with a patch
<seb128> you read the bug emails?
<mterry> seb128, sure I can look at them
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<hyperair> seb128: i'm the nautilus-share maintainer in debian, so yeah.
<seb128> ok, so that will do, I guess patches will land on the bug
<hyperair> okay.
<hyperair> seb128: i'm also looking for a new sponsor to get nautilus-share into debian.
<hyperair> seb128: until bdefreese returns
<seb128> try Laney?
<hyperair> Laney: oh you're a DD now?
<hyperair> or i could poke directhex, hmm
<seb128> sorry but I don't have a debian unstable uptodate to do bin builds and since debian doesn't accept source uploads
<hyperair> alright.
<seb128> pitti, I'm sending the gnome3 spec your way
<seb128> pitti, the work items will probably not be stable for a while though
<hyperair> i'd donate my schroot setup to you, but i imagine it'd be faster to run mk-sbuild yourself =p
<seb128> I think we will find new libraries that need to be ported or cleaned on the way
<mterry> seb128, rodrigo_: gsettings-desktop-schemas uploaded to natty NEW (using -v0.0, seb :))
<rodrigo_> mterry, thanks
<seb128> mterry, thanks ;-)
<seb128> pitti, ^ NEW source to review for you when you have free time
<pitti> ack
<rodrigo_> hmm, gobject-introspection is broken in natty, or is it too new?
<seb128> rodrigo_, how broken?
<seb128> rodrigo_, we have the current version and it should be working
<rodrigo_> all branches I've tried fail with:
<rodrigo_> Namespace is empty; likely causes are:
<rodrigo_> * Not including .h files to be scanned
<rodrigo_> * Broken --identifier-prefix
<seb128> what did you try to build?
<seb128> the gtk stack built fine
<mterry> seb128, pitti: gtk3 pushed to natty NEW
<seb128> pitti, ^
<pitti> rodrigo_: (currently reviewing gsettings-desktop-schemas) can you please use an ~ubuntu-desktop branch?
<seb128> ups, you pinged pitti as well ;-)
<rodrigo_> pitti, I can't create it
<pitti> rodrigo_: also, any reason to not use 3.0 (quilt)?
<seb128> pitti, can't use the product before the source is in
<pitti> seb128: oh, we want to use an lp:ubuntu/<> thing?
<seb128> pitti, it's in a junk for now until the product is activated
<pitti> fine for me
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, no reason
<pitti> seb128: ok
<seb128> pitti, no, just ~ubuntu-desktop/<source> won't work until the source is in
<pitti> we could just use lp:ubuntu/ for that one, and wait for the autoimport; but then we shold just drop the vcs-bzr
<seb128> or we need to create a product on launchpad for it
<pitti> seb128: it'll autocreate a product?
<seb128> you can use source package names
<mterry> oh that was my fault for not updating the vcs-bzr after i created ubuntu-desktop branch
<seb128> pitti, I think launchpad let you use namespace from registered product or sources
<seb128> so it will work when we create a product or when the source is newed
<seb128> waiting for NEW is the lazy way ;-)
<pitti> rodrigo_: do these packages really contain arch specific files?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I doubt that they do; if not, you should make them arch: all
<pitti> WFM
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, just schemas and header files
<pitti> rodrigo_: ok, I'll reject then, please reupload with arch:all
<pitti> rodrigo_: but let me finish the review, in case there's something else
<mterry> rodrigo_,  also, I'm looking at that control file again and gtk.org probably isn't upstream homepage either
<mterry> maybe gnome.org
<pitti> rodrigo_: while you are at it, can you please use 3.0 (quilt)?
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: thanks
<mterry> I'll create a product on LP, so we can set that from the get-go
<pitti> mterry: don't worry for now
<Laney> hyperair: haha, noooo
<rodrigo_> how do I make it use quilt (3.0), by adding a debian/source/format file with that in, right?
<pitti> we could just scratch rodrigo_'s junk branch and use lp:ubuntu/gsettings-desktop-schemas once it gets created
<Laney> soon, soon
<pitti> rodrigo_: right
<mterry> rodrigo_, right
<hyperair> Laney: =)
<rodrigo_> oh, is the ubuntu-desktop branch created?
<mterry> pitti, well, that's if we are using lp:ubuntu/ style packages for this (vs ~ubuntu-desktop branches).  seb128?
<pitti> rodrigo_: also, I'd like to see people use the new machine parseable copyright files, but I won't reject the package for that
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh, where can I read about those?
<pitti> mterry: we already do for a few (gvfs, scour, etc.)
<mterry> rodrigo_, search for dep-
<mterry> dep-5
<seb128> I'm fine with use the canonical location
<seb128> using
<seb128> it's a small source
<seb128> and we should start going this way
<pitti> rodrigo_: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/dep/web/deps/dep5.mdwn?op=file&rev=135
<pitti> rodrigo_: there shold be plenty of examples in existing copyright files already; e. g. udisks
<pitti> rodrigo_: ok, otherwise the package is fine
<seb128> pitti, gtk3 will be less easy to review but it's basically a gtk2 update
 * mterry will be more strict in future pre-pitti-reviews
<rodrigo_> ok, so need to add the quilt stuff, change arch to all and change the copyright file, right?
<seb128> pitti, it's coming from debian and didrocks, mterry and me worked on it
<seb128> so it should be ok
<seb128> debian = pkg-gnome, it didn't go in there yet
<mterry> rodrigo_, also extremely minor, but update the homepage
<mterry> rodrigo_, and drop the vcs-bzr line
<pitti> rodrigo_: right; copyright file won't block NEWing, so if you want to do that async, that's fine
<pitti> right
<rodrigo_> ok
 * mterry eats Chinese food
<pitti> rodrigo_: but it should take one minute to rewrite it, and we shouldn't proliferate the old format
<rodrigo_> mterry, so, do I push to my branch?
<pitti> rodrigo_: it'll be thrown away anyway after the autoimport
<mterry> rodrigo_, sure, I can grab new stuff.  pull from mine first though, I made a small edit
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> seb128: oh, so we won't need a newer glib first?
 * pitti reviews gtk
<pitti> not really interesting session right now anyway
<rodrigo_> mterry, where's yourbranch?
<seb128> pitti, we have a new glib
<seb128> pitti, glib doesn't break abi
<seb128> pitti, ie no new source or soname for it
<seb128> 2.27 is already in natty
<pitti> I see
<pitti> seb128: OOI, why does that ship all those .gmo files in the source?
<pitti> seb128: is that ok for main, or does it have b-deps in universe?
<seb128> pitti, not sure for the gmo
<seb128> gtk2 does that as well
<seb128> pitti, it's ok for main and would be nice to get there
<seb128> since other things are following
<pitti> seb128: there's a ton of copyright attributions missing in debian/copyright
<seb128> pitti, right, which is the case for the gtk2 version as well
<pitti> and ./tests/testnouiprint.c and ./tests/testcalendar.c are shipped under GPL, not LGPL
<seb128> I bet all those issues are in gtk2 as well
<seb128> nobody cares about updating the copyright in existent source
<seb128> well not a rant for you or to have now but I just find the thing ridiculous
<pitti> it's a lot of bureaucracy, yes
<seb128> I understand we care about license, but the copyright infos we care about getting them right at NEW time and let them just get wrong over time
<seb128> which means at the end we just have remotely correct infos in most sources anyway
<pitti> seb128: can we make a deal that we open a "copyright review" bug about it, and then I'll let it in?
<pitti> we'll need it for Debian anyway
<seb128> ok, I will copy the copyright from debian when it gets there ;-)
<pitti> sounds fine
<pitti> do you know whether it'll go to experimental soon?
<seb128> but I think we should really have a discussion about stopping listing the copyright owners
<seb128> I think it should yes
<seb128> the remaining point was to update the copyright IIRC
<didrocks> +1 seb128
<seb128> which nobody wants to do
<pitti> grep -hir 'Copyright' .|grep -v  msgstr |sort -u
<pitti> should go a long way already
<seb128> is there a legal point or something which makes us list copyright holders?
<pitti> anyway, accepted
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: Debian Policy
 * pitti heads to lunch
<seb128> well, is the policy based on legal reasons
<seb128> not really a discussion for there
<pitti> I don't know
<seb128> but I would like to know what stops us to stop wasting time on that
<seb128> pitti, enjoy lunch!
<pitti> merci
<mterry> rodrigo_, ubuntu-desktop/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas
<seb128> pitti,
<seb128> tests/testnouiprint.c: GPL (v2 or later) (with incorrect FSF address)
<seb128> tests/testcalendar.c: GPL (v2 or later) (with incorrect FSF address)
<seb128> in gtk2 as well
<rodrigo_> mterry, yeah found out, proposing a branch in a minute
<rodrigo_> mterry, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/gsettings-desktop-schemas
 * rodrigo_ bbiab
<mterry> seb128, how do I find out what packages are in the 'desktop' umbrella?
<seb128> mterry, try to upload? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, heh
<mterry> there must be a nicer way
<seb128> joke aside there is a query_acl or similar utility
<seb128> cjwatson or didrocks or chrisccoulson will know about it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney: ^
<seb128> mterry, sorry, I got upload rights from day 1 so I never had to deal with that :p
<mterry> seb128, hehe
<didrocks> mterry: you will find it at lp:~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk
<didrocks> then ./edit_acl.py --help
<didrocks> it's clear enough :)
<mterry> didrocks, thanks
<chrisccoulson> yeah, you just do edit_acl.py -P ubuntu-desktop query -S natty
<chrisccoulson> pretty much ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, run for upload main rights next week!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<chrisccoulson> when's the next meeting?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I should have kept you in hostage while I had you handy until you did it ;-)
<seb128> I need next week
<seb128> kenvandine said he would run next week
<seb128> chrisccoulson, kenvandine, mterry: the last of you to apply will maintain packages you wished you would have to deal with :p
<seb128> (let's see if that way works)
<chrisccoulson> openoffice ;)
 * micahg sees neither on teh DMB agenda
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, you are already claiming one? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<mterry> huh, I *can* push to usb-creator.  Thank you edit_acl.py!
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mterry, I guess it's in the desktop set
<seb128> james_w, can you decline https://code.launchpad.net/~dstansby/gnome-system-monitor/bugfix-lp-214148/+merge/26380 in some way?
<seb128> it's a merge proposal against the upstream import
<kenvandine> seb128, i need to wait until the following meeting, they ask for a week between notifying them and the meeting time
<kenvandine> and i still need endorsements
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, to ask for main upload rights?
<kenvandine> yeha
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, makes sense
<kenvandine> i guess so they can review my application and all
<seb128> chrisccoulson, mterry: ^
<mterry> heh
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, btw, I've been looking at the json-glib thing, and can't really find a way to make it easier, since if you want a hash table, the items would be JsonNode's still, so you'll have to check the type, etc
<mterry> chrisccoulson, if we band together, seb128 can't stick either of us with bad packages
<mterry> classic prisoner's dilemma
<chrisccoulson> :)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah... that is what i did on my send
<kenvandine> check the type of data in each node
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, isn't the _foreach call enough for you?
<kenvandine> no...
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, it doesn't reduce the code, but at least it makes it clearer
<kenvandine> i don't want the result to be json
<rodrigo_> so, you want GVariant's? but that would force you to still check the type
<seb128> mterry, oh, that's how things go around there now, I see ;-)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah... no getting out of checking the type
 * kenvandine hugs python
<kenvandine> but it would still be simpler than the 2 levels in json-glib
<dobey> if you don't want to check types, don't write python.
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, I guess the python bindings could do the conversion, so that you don't have to check the types
<kenvandine> so JsonNode, which contains bool
<kenvandine> for example
<kenvandine> i would need know it is a JsonNode, and detect the type inside the node
<kenvandine> so if i had GVarient's i would only need to check once
<kenvandine> i understand i can't get it as simple as simple-json :)
<rodrigo_> you are using JsonParser?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> is there a better way?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, did you look at the JsonDict thing in tracker?
<rodrigo_> no, just thinking what could be better
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, no, forgot that, looking
<kenvandine> https://labs.codethink.co.uk/index.php/p/tracker-replicator/source/tree/58d6f7f40e4208f86e4edef66d71e035a34ea362/json.vala
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, ^^
<kenvandine> note the comment near the top
<kenvandine> / Until i have time to look deeply into json-glib...
<kenvandine> so he wrote his own implementation instead of figuring out json-glib :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kenvandine> also note their specific use case is couchdb replication :)
<rodrigo_> ah, it's in tracker-replicator, that's why I didn't find it in tracker sources
<kenvandine> yeah, sorry forgot about htat
<kenvandine> that
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, I think the sanest way would be to have a json_parser_get_dict, returning a hash table or a JsonDict object that contains JsonNode's
<rodrigo_> would that work?
<rodrigo_> I don't think it's good to have to convert to GVariant's, since there's no gain really
<kenvandine> yeah, it would be a big improvement
<rodrigo_> ok
<kenvandine> again, what is there now works... i just think it is too complicated and want to make this easier for the next guy :)
<rodrigo_> although that only saves one step, instead of root = json_parser_get_root(); json_array/object_foreach(), you would do a dict = json_parser_get_dict()
<kenvandine> in fact it might be useful to talk to john about his implementation there for tracker-replicator to get suggestions from him
<rodrigo_> the rest would be the same
<rodrigo_> yeah
<mterry> pitti, btw, I re-uploaded gsettings-desktop-schemas
<mterry> pitti, I converted to DEP-5, but the copyright owners were a best-effort sort of thing.  The only documented file was the header
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, so with Json.Dict he has implemented his own Node types and when using the data he seems to just assume the datatypes
<kenvandine> like he knows what is a long, etc
<james_w> seb128, I only have the same abilities as you with that merge proposal. I think you need someone from https://launchpad.net/~vcs-imports to deal with it
<kenvandine> so not very re-usable
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, right
<kklimonda_> heh, the joys of parsing json in C ;)
<kenvandine> yeah... kklimonda_ i am trying to get rodrigo_ to make it easier
<rodrigo_> unfortunately (or fortunately, depends how you look at it), C doesn't have a generic data type
<seb128> james_w, ok thanks
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, at least, the dict could have a way to retrieve subchildren, like object1::prop1
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah, that would be nice
<kenvandine> but you will see need to do type checking for each value
<rodrigo_> if not, ebassi won't see it useful, I think
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> but we can't get away from that
<rodrigo_> but json fields can have any char, right?
<rodrigo_> so what to use for :: separator?
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: you can't use anything :)
<rodrigo_> yeah :(
<rodrigo_> so, the object would just be there to avoid 1 step, so hard to get it upstream :(
<kklimonda_> what about using varargs? ("object1", "prop1", NULL) ?
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> that should work from python, right?
<kklimonda_> it's not going to be very pythonic but it should work
<kklimonda_> but then whole json-glib isn't really high-level language friendly anyway
 * kklimonda_ still can't get over the fact that both JsonArray and JsonObject aren't GObjects :/
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, and you want to expose that in the couchdb-glib API!!! :D
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, yeah, they should be objects indeed
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: yes, but the alternative is even worse.
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: Couchdb is too tightly tied to json not to expose it at some point and json-glib is a de facto standard right now ;)
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, yeah, I know, just joking
<kenvandine> which is why i am really hoping someone can make it simpler
<kklimonda_> kenvandine: what is your goal right now?
<kenvandine> kklimonda_, just to help make it better
<kklimonda_> oh :)
<kenvandine> i use it in libgwibber
<kenvandine> and it was hard to figure out how to use it, and took way too much code to get anything useful
<kklimonda_> and it way in vala ;)
<kklimonda_> in C it's even funnier
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> and actually the most difficult thing to figure out was that i had to know what the node type the outter node was
<kenvandine> like one json string gwibber returns is a JsonArray
<and471> mpt, hey
<mpt> hi and471, long time no see
<kenvandine> with json-glib i have to know that and iterate over that array for the objects
<kenvandine> but all the others are JsonObjects
<kklimonda_> kenvandine: and you have to check it yourself? i.e. the type of response is not something you may know beforehand?
<kenvandine> and of course the failure wasn't very obvious... like i was expect an exception that was similar to a type error
<and471> mpt, I was looking at your Networking mockups and I got inspired to follow nzmm's custom tutorial. what I made can be seen here - http://videobin.org/+2d2/2nm.html
<kenvandine> kklimonda_, you have to know yourself... afaict
<and471> (ignore the jerkiness, it is smooth in reality)
<mpt> and471, that's pretty nifty!
<kklimonda_> kenvandine: that doesn't really sound like a good api on gwibber's side - or rather, it sounds like a very pythonic api :)
<and471> mpt, actually wait that is an older version...
<kenvandine> kklimonda_, it wouldn't be so bad if i could catch an type error exception and do something else
<kenvandine> kklimonda_, why on gwibber's side?
<and471> mpt, here with this one, the text moves as well http://videobin.org/+2d9/2nt.html
<and471> mpt, thanks :)
<kenvandine> the specific API always returns a json array... if that is what you mean
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, hmm, you don't know the format of the json you get?
<kklimonda_> ah, I see
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, so, it's an array of what?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, afaict there wasn't a good way to figure it out programatically
<kenvandine> of json objects
<kenvandine> Json.Array containing Json.Object
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, can you pastebin an example?
<kenvandine> something like that
<kenvandine> yeah, one sec
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: by trying to use GHashTable to describe json you are bound to hit the same problem I did - there is no way to tell what keys' types are
<and471> mpt, I was going to ask you about that Networking stuff, it look really good, when is it going to be worked on?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, no, writing a JsonDict object
<and471> *looks
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, but yeah, it will return JsonNodes
<rodrigo_> which has the same problem kenvandine was having
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: well, in this case why not just use GHashTable<JsonNode, JsonNode> ?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, I'm writing it in C, for adding it to json-glib
<rodrigo_> but yeah, from vala, you could something like that
<mpt> and471, kvalo is working on it, I'm sure he'd like help though
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: well, it was just a shortcut for g_hash_table_new (<code to has node>, <code to compare nodes>) but it wouldn't make access to child any easier so I guess JsonDict isn't bad idea.
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, ah :)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/526476/
<rodrigo_> well, as I see it right now, JsonDict isn't a great idea, but I'm writing it so that I can find how to improve it :)
<and471> mpt, you know what language he is writing it in (at least the settings part)
<mpt> and471, I don't, sorry
<and471> ?
<and471> mpt, ah ok np
<mpt> and471, https://code.launchpad.net/indicator-network
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: I'm not sure if ebassi is going to accept yet another way to read Json - there is already JsonReader in 0.12.0 (which I don't like btw ;) )
<and471> mpt, yeah I saw that the indicator was in C, but I wondered whether the settings were going to be a separate program (like software-sources and update-notifier)
<didrocks> ok, week-end time!
<and471> :)
<kenvandine> what is JsonReader
<didrocks> enjoy everyone, see you later :)
<kenvandine> ?
<mpt> and471, the beginnings of the settings window already exists. I don't know how closely it's tied, ask kvalo
<kenvandine> later didrocks
<and471> see ya didrocks
<kklimonda_> kenvandine: http://people.gnome.org/~ebassi/docs/json-glib/JsonReader.html
<and471> mpt, one step ahead of you :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, hmm, seems to have a specific structure, so why can't you just get each element in the array and then use json_node_get_string/boolean?
<didrocks> see you kenvandine, and471
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, that is what i did
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, then why you need to check the types?
<kenvandine> but it was hard to figure out that it was an array of json
<rodrigo_> ah
<kenvandine> to parse it, i have to get the root objects from each
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> so if i just to just parse it... it blew up
<kenvandine> without any useful way to see why
<kenvandine> it would have been fine if it was some sort of type error
<kenvandine> but it wasn't... it like really tried to treat the array as a json object...
<kklimonda_> It could print a more informative error indeed
<rodrigo_> yes
<kenvandine> yeah, or let me catch it and try to iterate over it if it isn't an object
<mterry> hyperair, regarding nautilus-share, I think we can just replace the gnome_client_request_save call by a call to "gnome-session-save --logout", or if you want to be fancy, a dbus request to org.gnome.SessionManager
<rodrigo_> it just returns NULL when the type doesn't match
<kenvandine> it was just hard to find out the problem... :)
<mterry> hyperair, I can whip up a patch and attach to the bug
<hyperair> mterry: please do. thanks )
<hyperair> =)
<rodrigo_> so, this can be parsed with json_array_foreach (json_node_get_array (json_parser_get_root (parser)), callback....)
<rodrigo_> mterry, GtkApplication will have automatic session support, afaik
<rodrigo_> mterry, if it's for natty
<mterry> rodrigo_, this if for triggering for a logout
<rodrigo_> ah
<kklimonda_> or even by using json_array_get_elements to get a GList of elements and then iterate over them. But the problem is that json-glib a) doesn't report errors in a nice way (we had this problem with couchdb-glib - _get_string_member on a non-existing member prints a non-helpful critical message) and b) doesn't let you recover from error (but that's more of a C issue - python promotes the try/catch
<kklimonda_>  workflow and C makes you check everything beforehand)
<rodrigo_> well, we have GError, json-glib could use that
<rodrigo_> returning 0 on an integer member that doesn't exist is not a good way to signal errors
<kklimonda_> right
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, that would be good
<kenvandine> yeah, i did the json_array_foreach
<bilalakhtar> mterry: Thanks for that upload!
<mterry> bilalakhtar, np!  thanks for the patch  :)
<rodrigo_> ok, I think I'll add the GError thing, but that will be another day, now out for some beer :)
<rodrigo_> later all
<bilalakhtar> mterry: its my pleasure, you are welcome
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, great :)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, enjoy!
<kklimonda_> rodrigo_: have fun
<mterry> hyperair, check out the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus-share/+bug/664745
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664745 in nautilus-share (Ubuntu) "nautilus-share should stop using libgnomeui (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,In progress]
<mterry> hyperair, shall I push it to deb bts or is this good enough?
<hyperair> mterry: this is good enough. i'm the maintainer over there anyway.
<hyperair> thanks
<mterry> hyperair, cool!
<hyperair> mterry: i probably can't get it uploaded immediately, though. debian's under freeze, and there's a crasher bug fix i want to get into squeeze.
<mterry> hyperair, I don't think there's any particular rush.  Think it'll get uploaded before natty?  :)
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: You are a DD?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: no. i need a friendly DD to upload nautilus-share for me
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I exploded the pygi ports WIs on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3, so that we get a better overview about how far we get; also, "port everything" is too big for one WI :)
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was not sure if we wanted to list everything
<seb128> pitti, similar for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gtk3
<pitti> seb128: we surely won't get to everything, but at least we have a more complete list
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> seb128: the spec also mentions some package additions/removals, but no work items for that; are they in that other spec? or are the WIs missing?
<pitti> oh, darn
<seb128> ok, dinner time
<seb128> pitti, right, it's just we can add one hundred "need to be ported to gtk3" tasks
<seb128> I was not sure if we wanted to track all the "would be nice"
<pitti> seb128: the spec also mentions some package additions/removals, but no work items for that; are they in that other spec? or are the WIs missing?
<seb128> or just the one we will want to get done
<seb128> pitti, they are in the appselection one
<pitti> seb128: yeah, don't worry about those
<seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection
<pitti> seb128: I primarily added those pygi WIs since these concern "our" software, where we are upstream
<pitti> seb128: okay
<pitti> fine then
 * pitti puts stamp on it
<pitti> oh, gtk 3 in binNEW
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, right, mostly the same for the gtk3 url I gave before
<seb128> I didn't start tracking the upstream world in launchpad
<seb128> anyway dinner
<seb128> bbl
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-07
<boulabiar> there is 2 ways to use libbamf ? dbus signals and as a library ?
<fagan> boulabiar: thats the way most things are going
<fagan> Both ways are used at the preference of the developer because some people love using the dbus but others dont so its humors both
<bilalakhtar> Has the desktop team begun accepting package upgrades from upstream for GNOME 3 unstable versions?
<bilalakhtar> GTK3 is in the repos already
 * TheMuso waves. Won't be around today, feeling rather out of it, as I got in this morning...
<Riddell> TheMuso: where have you been?
<TheMuso> Riddell: Liux Plumbers.
<Riddell> aah
<RAOF> TheMuso: Have a nice day basking in the sun.  If Sydney is sunny, of course.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, actually, today it is!  Which has been a change from constant torrential downpour...
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, btw, you left a festival t-shirt at the hotel, I'll drop it off next time we catch up
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-31
<rye> hi, is this a bug that unity resizes window to half the screen if i try e.g. to resize window by dragging left corner, not dragging the window to the edge, but just the edge of the window to the edge of the screen?
<kamstrup> rye: good question :-)
<rye> kamstrup, bug #878021 seems to highlight the impact of this behavior in multi-monitor setups
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878021 in unity "Impossible to resize window to span dual screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878021
<kamstrup> rye: considering that then I think it must be a bug
<Solarius_> Hello everyone!
<Solarius_> Is this the right place to ask for uTouch sources? :)
<kamstrup> Solarius_: what do you mean by "uTouch sources", the source code for the utouch stack, or?
<kamstrup> https://launchpad.net/utouch
<Solarius_> kamstrup: yep, these sources are the ones I would be interested in, but when I try to browse sources, it tells me that "Launchpad does not know where uTouch hosts its code."
<kamstrup> Solarius_: ah, lol, sorry :-)
<Solarius_> And when I try to browse branches, it tells me that I don't have access to those
<kamstrup> Solarius_: there is also a #ubuntu-touch channel...
<Solarius_> kamstrup: thank you very much :)
<Solarius_> I will try that next
<geser> Solarius_: try at https://code.launchpad.net/~utouch-team
<Solarius_> geser: thank you!
<jtaylor> is someone already working on backporting the gtk2 .7 file choser to oneiric? bug 878933 is starting to collecting dups
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878933 in gtk+2.0 "Crash when attempting to open a second file from the recent file list" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878933
<dobey> mterry: hey. banshee hasn't been accepted to proposed it seems. should we bug pitt or someone in person to accept it?
<mterry> dobey, yes
<dobey> mterry: do you have that version of banshee installed on your laptop btw?
<mterry> dobey, yeah
<dobey> mterry: does it crash if you open amz store?
<mterry> dobey, let me see
<dobey> thanks
<mterry> dobey, no?
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> good :)
<dobey> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662982 was blaming my fix :/
<ubot2> Gnome bug 662982 in Other Extensions "Immediate crash whenever I click on "Amazon MP3 Store"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<mterry> dobey, just because I don't get it doesn't mean much.  I can't seem to reproduce anything these days :)
<mterry> I've got a magic system
<dobey> wel, its probably something else anyawy
<mterry> dobey, it landed in proposed
<dobey> mterry: thanks
<mterry> dobey, probs pitti's doing.  (I didn't prompt him)
<mterry> pitti, thanks!
<dobey> ah ok :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-01
<robert_ancell> seb128, is didrocks in today?
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, what about you?
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure am
<seb128> robert_ancell, he was to the quickly one for the first hour, not sure where he is now
<robert_ancell> seb128, np, I'll catch him later
<seb128> robert_ancell, have you seen mvo?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no
<seb128> ok
<jasoncwarner_> jbicha: I still don't have your email. can you dm me the blueprint?
 * jasoncwarner_ grumbles about the the reliability of the internet. GET OFF MY LAWN, INTERNET!
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-02
<mpt> mvo, if I wanted to point potential contributors to update-manager to the code, would it make more sense to point to the LP project or the package?
<mvo> mpt: the LP project I think - did someone volunteered ;) ?
<mpt> mvo, no :-)
<mvo> *hrm* ;)
<jtaylor> seb128: thx for fixing the gtk 2 filechooser,  where are the changes commit?
<seb128> jtaylor, upstream
<jtaylor> their released there already?
<jtaylor> in the bug the package was changed to fix commited
<seb128> jtaylor, we use fix commited on desktop packages to say it will land in the next version
<jtaylor> ah ok, thx
<seb128> not sure if they rolled a tarball or when they will do
<jtaylor> GTK2 2.24.7 fixes the issues I have
<jtaylor> (easytag and geany)
<seb128> jtaylor, ok, great
<seb128> well if somebody want to work on the update that would be welcome
<jtaylor> backporting it is no fun
<seb128> yeah
<jtaylor> I'd just take the filechoser from .7 as a whole and hope for the best ;)
<jtaylor> the commits I found only fix the geany issue but not easymp3gain, fixing that will probably just pull the rest
<broder> backporters got a request for libgdata 0.10. does anybody know when that's expected to land in precise so i have something to take back to the request?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-03
<Bigwhale> Greetings.
<Daskreech> Hello
<Daskreech>  Can Ubuntu-2d do RTL?
<seifstrup> hey guys
<seifstrup> any1 here familiar with packaging
<seifstrup> we need some1 to help us package please
<geser> seifstrup: try #ubuntu-packaging
<Daskreech> Does anyone know if Unity-2d can do RTL languages?
<chrisccoulson> james_w, are you doing a lightning talk? ;)
<james_w> chrisccoulson, don't think so, but that means if I do it will mean that I won't be prepared :-)
<paulw_> hello....how do i connect 11.10 to Google Calendar?
<paulw_> what application do people use to connect to Google Calendar in 11.10
<paulw_> hello...what application are people using to connect to Google Calendar in 11.10?
 * Daskreech uses Korganizer but I suspect that whatever you were using in 11.04 would work in 11.10
<paulw_> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-04
<htorque> smspillaz: hello, i monitored the mem consumption of compiz during the last eight hours and it raised by 15mb while the desktop was idling.
<htorque> smspillaz: should i run valgrind and make it a bug report, or is there a new release in the works (currently on precise with 1:0.9.6+bzr20110929-0ubuntu5)?
<smspillaz> htorque: compiz with unity or compiz by itself ?
<htorque> smspillaz: i was running unity
<htorque> maybe i should try again without the unity plugin enabled.
<smspillaz> a report is useful either way
<maxb> Where can I adjust the resolution that lightdm uses before login?
<htorque> smspillaz: a couple of hours later... blame it on the unityshell plugin. :-) compiz' memory usage isn't growing at all without it.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-05
<desrt> RAOF: hey.  still around?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-06
<m4n1sh> jbicha: can you review my gedit merge proposal if you have time? https://code.launchpad.net/~manishsinha/gedit/enable-zeitgeist-datasource-plugin/+merge/80561
<jbicha> m4n1sh: yes, I can look at it for precise, I don't think that kind of change will be allowed in oneiric-updates though
<m4n1sh> jbicha: nope. It won't be
<m4n1sh> doesnt lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gedit/ubuntu point to current development version?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: should I change oneiric to UNRELEASED and push?
<jbicha> yes, that's the right place, I'll change it to UNRELEASED this time before merging
<m4n1sh> thanks
<jbicha> I'm reading the feedback on Linux Mint's GNOME Shell layout preview
<m4n1sh> so using gnome-shell to create gnome-panel experience
<m4n1sh> what is tomboy being replaced with? gnote? is the decision final?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: BTW is oneiric-updates same as SRU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jbicha> m4n1sh: yes, bugfixes get pushed to -proposed, if they pass verification they are pushed to -updates after 7 days or so
<m4n1sh> so as per that link,  changes in packaging just for sake of doing so is not allowed
<m4n1sh> i mean this change is good, but won't make any significant impact on released versions
<jbicha> removing mono is likely to be final for precise, I don't believe adding gnote has really been discussed yet
<jbicha> m4n1sh: should these zeitgeist plugins be enabled by default?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: you need to talk to didrocks for that
<m4n1sh> I think the decision was taken
<m4n1sh> there was also a Zeitgeist BoF during UDS
<m4n1sh> I don't know the final decision. if these are to be enabled, then I guess it needs to be added in iso seeds
<m4n1sh> jbicha: I see there are many more plugins in totem which are not enabled
<m4n1sh> any plans to enable them?
<jbicha> m4n1sh: do you mean totem plugins that are not installed or shipped disabled by default?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: not packaged
<m4n1sh> because the dependencies are not added in control file
<m4n1sh> jbicha: I am doing one for publish plugin now
<jbicha> you're welcome to look into it, compare with what Debian is doing
<m4n1sh> trying
<m4n1sh> I think I got it building
<m4n1sh> jbicha: should I get it done in debian or ubuntu?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-29
<ricotz> desrt, hi :), i hope you have fun, maybe you like look at this later http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/log/gdk-pixbug-glib-2.35.log
<desrt> ricotz: ubuntu packaging bug
<desrt> ricotz: but worked around upstream
<desrt> ricotz: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gdk-pixbuf/commit/?id=3a0531d84af702e4c8aed7801d9455cc95f3cb4a
<ricotz> desrt, ah, i see, thanks!
<ricotz> jbicha, hi :), will look into multiarchifying libsecret?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-30
<xclaesse> is it possible to "upgrade" an i386 installation to amd64?
<geser> xclaesse: in theory yes, but really need to know what to do (apt/dpkg doesn't handle cross-grades on their own very well)
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> jasoncwarner_: hey, could we remove (or reschedule) the "Reduce patch burden" session tomorrow 9AM?
<Laney> I want to go to the PS processes one, but it conflicts and I am marked essential for both
<jasoncwarner_> Laney: sure...
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> well, I suppose it could go ahead without me if enough others go
<jasoncwarner_> Laney: michelle is moving it...should be moved pretty soon....now we are just hanging out waiting for seb and the rest of you for gnome meeting :)
<ogra_> didrocks, hmm, looks like the battery/ram BoF moved around, i now have a conflict
<ogra_> seb128, ^^^
<didrocks> ogra_: which one? I see 2 sessions for them
<ogra_> Wed 15:00
<ogra_> i have the nexus7 workshop at the same time
<didrocks> ogra_: thursday 12:00 is good for you?
<ogra_> yep
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: can you move the session about battery life/ram consumption from Wed 15:00 to Thursday 12:00, please?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ping
<kenvandine> we have someone here without nm-applet running
<cyphermox> pong
<cyphermox> where is here?
<kenvandine> sitting area
<kenvandine> near lunch
<cyphermox> ok, be there in a minute
<kenvandine> cool
<cyphermox> I tried to go to the mall, but my cards won't work in the damned ticket machine
<ricotz> seb128, hi, do you have a moment? :)
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<seb128> yes?
<ricotz> seb128, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/raring/
<ricotz> seb128, the new gvfs introduced a multiarch problem
<seb128> ricotz, "new" like quantal or newer?
<ricotz> and libsecret needs some love to work right
<ricotz> raring
<seb128> what changed?
<ricotz> gvfs-libs depends on libsecret-1-0
<ricotz> and gvfs-libs is part of the "multiarch base"
<ricotz> seb128, i was already compat 9 but the annotions in control are missing
<ricotz> seb128, https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/experimental/+sourcepub/2762802/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> ricotz, can you get that in a bug? I don't have time to review it now
<seb128> bbl
<maxb> I've added Option "TapButton3" "2" to my xorg.conf, but despite appearing in Xorg.0.log, it doesn't seem to be taking effect.
<maxb> Can anyone suggest ways to check if some part of Gnome or something is overriding settings via xinput properties or similar?
<maxb> Argh, seriously? gnome-settings-daemon unconditionally overwrites this setting to disabled?
<maxb> And this is an Ubuntu-specific patch to do so?
<maxb> What are these 'gestures' that it's supposedly making way for?
<maxb> Nothing happens for me, certainly
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-31
<doomlord> is there a command to maximize a window across multiple monitors ...
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: moved session
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, which one? (just in case it impacts my schedule)
<jasoncwarner_> seb128: battery life/ram moved from today to tomorrow at noon. (didrocks request)
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, ok, I need to be there as well, that slots works for me so all good
<Bacta> Hi all - what sort of information would I need in order to submit a bug report for Wifi issues I've been having with my laptop?
<fincan> hi, I have problem with intel+amd hybrid g570 laptop catalyst install, when I install catalyst from additional drivers, black screen appears after the install both fglrx and fglrx-update. There was no problem with 12.04 and when I installed catalyst beta from amd website. Deskop opens without unity interface. Still I could not find a solution. Any idea?
<sbte> pitti, is there anything I can do to help fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emesene/+bug/1050358
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1050358 in emesene (Ubuntu) "emesene crashed with SIGSEGV in tupledealloc.24592()" [Critical,Confirmed]
<sbte> we get a lot of complaints, because nobody is able to use emesene in Quantal
<tsdgeos> is there an easy way to get all the packages that are included in the 12.10 iso that get installed by default?
<cyphermox> tsdgeos: what do you mean by get? a list or to download them?
<tsdgeos> cyphermox: a list
<tsdgeos> tried googleing for it but failed miserably
<Laney> http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.manifest
<didrocks> 11:02:23      didrocks | jasoncwarner_: thanks! (yes, this is really asynchronous ;))
<didrocks> 11:05:50      didrocks | jasoncwarner_: can you schedule that one please?
<didrocks>                        | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru (as we didn't get to that point in the
<cyphermox> Laney: fast.
<didrocks>                        | other ps related session)
<didrocks> 11:06:03      didrocks | jbicha: suscribing you to this one ^
<didrocks> (really asynchronous discussion as I hit some timeouts :p)
 * Laney shoots from the hip
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: doing it now
<didrocks> excellent, thanks!
<tsdgeos> Laney: so all in there is in the iso and all of it gets installed?
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: done...should get scheduled here soon
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: awesomeness ;)
<Laney> well, it's all that's installed in the live environment
<Laney> some stuff like metacity gets removed by the installer
<tsdgeos> Laney: ok, thanks :-)
<mpt> mterry, what design will you use for the Background panel for Unity?
<jbicha> the same appearance panel as 12.10, right?
<mterry> mpt, my work item was just about using different ones, not changing background panel
<mterry> mpt, sorry that wasn't clear
<mterry> mpt, just using different ones in different sessions
<mpt> mterry, that much is clear, but what ones specifically?
<mterry> mpt, in Unity, I was not planning to change anything
<mpt> change anything from what? :-)
<mterry> mpt, upstream's Background panel in GNOME, our Appearance panel in Unity
<mterry> mpt, right now we patch it I believe
<mpt> mterry, oh, so keep the 12.10 panel? ok
<mterry> mpt, instead of using a different plugin for the control center
<mterry> mpt, this just lets jbicha use upstream's panel easier
<mpt> right
<jbicha> :)
<fincan> hi, I have problem with intel+amd hybrid g570 laptop catalyst install on ubuntu 12.10 64bit, when I install catalyst from additional drivers, black screen appears after the install both fglrx and fglrx-update. There was no problem with 12.04 and when I installed catalyst beta from amd website. Deskop opens without unity interface. Still I could not find a solution. Any idea?
<DasWu> Hi I want try to do the gnome-settings-daemon bug from the bitesized section
<DasWu> by now I want to find the code for that can anyone point me to it?
<DasWu> would be that bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-indicator-mods/+bug/887139
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 887139 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Middle clicking the keyboard layout indicator has behaviour inconsistent with other indicator applets" [Low,Confirmed]
<jbicha> DasWu: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<DasWu> chears
<DasWu> jbicha: the source folder of that branch seems to be empty...
<jbicha> you can use bzr bd-do for that (it's mentioned in that long wiki page I posted)
<DasWu> okay I check that link
<DasWu> alright now I am pretty much confused... what I did so far is bzr branch on the code link the checkout however does not contain code (or I am to stupid to find it)
<DasWu> the wiki confuses me a lot since i have no idea in which of the described situations i am in
<DasWu> the bd-do gives me an error
<jbicha> what's the error?
<DasWu> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "bd-do"
<jbicha> DasWu: install ubuntu-dev-tools or packaging-dev
<DasWu> ok
<jbicha> specifically, you need to have bzr-builddeb installed but those other packages are useful
<DasWu> alright that seemed to have worked
<didrocks> RAOF: hey! howdy? ;)
<DasWu> jbicha: do you whether the indicators are really part of the settings daemon?
<didrocks> RAOF: there is a rendering glitch with latest unity version in proposed, this is now fixed upstream. Cherry-picked and in the queue right now (should be easy).
<jbicha> DasWu: I'm logging off in a few minutes, but yes some indicator code is in gnome-settings-daemon but that is planned to be removed this cycle
<DasWu> oh is there somebody i should talk to then before i start?
<jbicha> if you have questions about contributing fixes to gnome-settings-daemon for Ubuntu, you 're in the right place; just ask your questions :)
<DasWu> will i am not exactly sure where it is to be fixed
<DasWu> its the keyboard indicator
<jbicha> even for indicators, this is a good place
<DasWu> i am not sure whether its different in unity as it is in gnome
<jbicha> yeah, I believe the keyboard indicator is currently just in gnome-settings-daemon for Unity
<DasWu> great than i need to figure out how to register a middle mouse button click with an action :D
<jbicha> DasWu: ah, you may want to wait until the keyboard indicator gets split into its own separate package in the next month or two
<DasWu> oh sure great
<DasWu> how can i stay updated on this progress?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I don't see the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru scheduled automagically
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: tomorrow 10:00 - 10:45 CET seems to be the best set to get some people from fundations/release team coming
<didrocks> bet*
<sbte> we get a lot of complaints, because nobody is able to use emesene in Quantal
<sbte> oops
<seb128> sbte, why not?
<sbte> seb128, sorry, I pressed the wrong key, that was just something I told pitti earlier
<sbte> it's about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emesene/+bug/1050358
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1050358 in emesene (Ubuntu) "emesene crashed with SIGSEGV in tupledealloc.24592()" [Critical,Confirmed]
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems like a pitti question indeed ;-)
<sbte> I want to help fix that bug, but I have no idea what to do
<kenvandine> Laney, ping
<kenvandine> Laney, gstreamer-1.0 in b4-m6
<dupondje> could someone take a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1073649 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1073649 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm visible on tty1, and console visible in lightdm" [Undecided,New]
<mitya57> dupondje, apport says your lightdm.conf has been modified, did you try with unmodified conffile?
<s9iper1> ursinha: pin
<s9iper1> ping
<dobey> s9iper1: she's at UDS
<s9iper1> need assistance
<s9iper1> dobey: this bug is the telepathy bug right ?? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1072693
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1072693 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy does not connect accounts, Facebook, Google, Outlook" [Medium,Incomplete]
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-01
<jbicha> desrt: try B3-M7 http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21328/tzlocalization/
<BigWhale> pitivi pulled 20 dependencies... :/
<BigWhale> gstreamer 0.10 amongst them...
<jbicha> ooh, I think I know a way to hide Ubuntu's extra gnome-control-center panels from the Ubuntu GNOME Remix
<dupondje> could someone take a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1073649 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1073649 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm visible on tty1, and console visible in lightdm" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-02
<gema> can someone point me to an exhaustive list of the currently supported sites with WebApps?
<didrocks> seb128: not fun: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ps ;)
<seb128> didrocks, lol
<didrocks> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity, wdyt?
<didrocks> as everything in the stack is related to that
<seb128> didrocks, works for me
<didrocks> ok, let's go for it :)
<seb128> that's coherent with our namespacing for the ps stack
<kui> hi
<kui> anybody there ?
<kui> hi
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-03
<jbicha_> grr, I tried testing a gnome-control-center patch with git master but ran into http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/commit/?id=f6cc4a9
<conscioususer> desrt: ping
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-04
<Alexey_prostakov> Hello friends! I have questions about empathy, can I talk about it here?
<jbicha> desrt: ping
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Hey there, sorry I didn't get a chance to say goodbye at SIngapore. When it comes to people like myself, airport staff can be quite overprotective, and communication broke down anyway so...
<jasoncwarner_> hey TheMuso no worries! RAOF and I looked for you a bit, but comm lines got crossed. glad you made it home alright. hopefully you aren't too wiped out!
<TheMuso> Feeling better today thanks, will probably still sleep a fair amount tonight though.
<TheMuso> Yesterday was very much a vedge day, once I got unpacked and had a shower.
 * RAOF will probably sleep a bit today, too :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Hey there, hope you are feeling ok too.
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: You'll be happy to learn that fsharp is only slightly unredistributable. It shouldn't take too much effort to straighten that out and make it packageable âº
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: :)
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hey, do you have time to sponsor gnome-bluetooth for me?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-28
<darkxst> Laney, does debian have spidermonkey 17?
<Laney> darkxst: in NEW
<darkxst> Laney, right, well gjs had two seperate branches for 1.38, I could r
<darkxst> prepare a package with the other non js17 branch
<darkxst> but the real improvements come from spidermonk
<darkxst> spidermonkey,
<darkxst> Laney, also gnome-shell and cinnamon need to be patched due to an api change
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> Good morning
<mlankhorst> oh btw, good morning
<mlankhorst> oh great, storm incoming. :o
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<czajkowski> aloha
<qengho> desrt: http://thecodelesscode.com/case/6
<Mirv> jetlag morning
<sil2100> seb128: hello! How was the flight?
<seb128> sil2100, hey, good, I was in Canada before so short flight for me
<sil2100> Ah, hacky but nice ;)
<Mirv> hey sil2100 :)
<sil2100> seb128: quick question - could you add me to the ~lightdm-team? I need to redeploy something in cu2d-config but I can't since I don't have access there
<sil2100> Mirv: morning! Didn't see you log in as well! How was your flight? ;)
<Mirv> sil2100: log in? I'm always online except for vacations
<Mirv> sil2100: flight was "the usual", but it went alright. first night also "the usual", but not the worst.
<Mirv> feeling relatively good
<sil2100> Mirv: I meant like, log in like, log into our world ;)
<seb128> sil2100, I'm not a lightdm admin, needs robert_ancell there
<seb128> Laney, where are you?
<seb128> desktop room is kind of not full
<sil2100> seb128: well, LP says you are ;)
<sil2100> seb128: Sebastien Bacher 2011-08-09 â Administrator
<seb128> sil2100, oh, I don't feel like I'm active enough in that team to add peoples
<seb128> it's a bit suboptimal that the integration team needs to be given full access to all the upstream projects that way
<sil2100> Ah, ok, well, it's still a requirement for us from the unity integration team to have access to all branches that we release, so I'll have to poke Robert later on
<sil2100> Since otherwise we can't get stuff done
<sil2100> Like for instance, now :|
<Mirv> sil2100: can't you use -S?
<seb128> sil2100, can you mp it so I can approve it/get it in?
<sil2100> Mirv: didn't help strangely, I redeployed with -S and the project was still disabled
<Mirv> sil2100: hmm, okay
<Mirv> sil2100: -US?
<seb128> Mirv, where are you guys? aren't you supposed to be in the desktop room?
<Mirv> seb128: ah we're seeing the plenary session even though technically we wouldn't need to
<sil2100> Mirv: -US didn't try ;) Maybe this is the secret technique here
<seb128> Mirv, oh ok, weird that most desktop people are not in the desktop room
<seb128> Mirv, is the plenary any good?
<Mirv> seb128: we're coming soon. plenary mostly reiterating what we know, but it's always useful to refresh one's mind.
<seb128> ok
<mterry> attente, is there a mailing list for indicator developers?
<mterry> tedg, ^?
<Laney> seb128: here now!
<seb128> mterry, not really, why?
<seb128> Laney, hey ;-)
<Laney> hey
<mterry> seb128, I wanted to give a warning/request-for-work about the new indicator mode phone_greeter (an analog for desktop_greeter)
<Laney> did you see the autopilot MP?
<Laney> !!!
<mterry> tedg, ^ is that enough warning?  :)
<seb128> mterry, just pinging larsu / charles / ted is enough I guess ;-)
<seb128> Laney, yeah, it's next on todolist
<charles> mterry, yes ted was talking about that this morning
<Laney> Looks like all of those could be run as autopkgtest also
<Laney> if we want to do that
<seb128> Laney, that would be good
<didrocks> kenvandine: robru: Mirv: sil2100: cyphermox: hey guys!
<kenvandine> hey didrocks
<robru> didrocks, where are you? we are in 208
<didrocks> robru: I'm in the client sprint, 3rd floor
<sil2100> Hi!
<sil2100> :)
<didrocks> hey sil2100, how are you?
<didrocks> let's try to fit and finish the Mir shipping together :)
<sil2100> Not bad, feeling a bit alone! It feels as if almost all teams are gone ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: heh, indeed, quiet time ;)
<robru> sil2100, are you not in oakland?
<sil2100> At least in the mornings
<didrocks> sil2100: is everything built now for Mir?
<sil2100> robru: sadly not
<robru> sil2100, nooo! we miss you!
<Mirv> heya didrocks
<sil2100> didrocks: the platform stack is still not ready, didn't notice that platform-api got actually yellow
<sil2100> didrocks: because there was a direct push to distro
<sil2100> didrocks: it's fixed and rebuilding
<sil2100> didrocks: cyphermox now takes care of that
<didrocks> excellent!
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime, I confirmed on my desktop that XMir is working
<Mirv> sil2100: didrocks: do you have / should you have the mir status tracking in the landing pipeline doc?
<sil2100> (from the PPA)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so, once that's done, you are going to test that and ship it!
<didrocks> sil2100: \o/
<didrocks> sil2100: do you know if xserver is just a rebuild or has a patch?
<cyphermox> didrocks: yeah
<didrocks> Mirv: please update it :)
<didrocks> Mirv: but yeah, agreed
<cyphermox> didrocks: I'll rebuild xserver-xorg-xmir in the PPA as well soon
<Mirv> didrocks: I'd need sil2100 since I don't what he has tested :)
<cyphermox> so heads up w.r.t PPA usage...
<didrocks> sil2100: updating the spreadsheet?
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you know if it's just a rebuild? no patch needed?
<sil2100> didrocks: from what I know it's just a rebuild
<Mirv> sil2100: I think there are already a lot of columns in the landing 268 but just add more..
<didrocks> sil2100: did you check in the PPA?
 * didrocks looks
<sil2100> didrocks: yes
<cyphermox> didrocks: supposed to be just a no-change rebuild... that's what you said on friday
<sil2100> Mirv: ok, although I only did desktop testing ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: sil2100: dont' trust, check! :)
<didrocks> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/155015439/xorg-server_2%3A1.14.3-3ubuntu3_2%3A1.14.3-3ubuntu3trusty0.diff.gz
<sil2100> didrocks: * Rebuild for mir-team staging PPA
<didrocks> yeah, it is ^
<didrocks> sil2100: don't trust the changelog! :)
<sil2100> hehe
<sil2100> Right!
<didrocks> ok, cyphermox: you are handling that one then? if you publish to distro, just wait for Mir to be published in proposed and do that upload as well?
<cyphermox> so sil2100, you can follow on the premise that I'm doing the ABI stuff, yeah
<cyphermox> yeah
<Mirv> sil2100: ok, so are you testing the touch now too? it smoke tested fine for me already last week, but of course there are now new changes as well
<didrocks> once Mir will be unblocked, we'll be able to resume activies as normal
<Mirv> (the mirserver9/mirclient4)
<didrocks> cyphermox: thanks a lot, good luck :)
<cyphermox> didrocks: gonna need more than luck
<cyphermox> didrocks: it's more like "good code"
<didrocks> maybe divide the testing/dogfooding
<cyphermox> :)
<didrocks> so that we even have more luck
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> Mirv: you can pair with robru to show him (as he doesn't have the device) how you are testing things ^
<robru> didrocks, can you get me a device? :-P
<sil2100> Mirv: once the platform-api bits are rebuilt I can try testing, but it's already late around here ;)
<didrocks> I think that would be a good tutoring :)
<cyphermox> robru: msm. I think
<didrocks> robru: working with people to get you one :)
<robru> didrocks, great, thx
<cyphermox> didrocks: ok so you are handling it?
<sil2100> robru: I'll be missing you guys too! I already do miss the desktop team actually, all alone in my EU mornings ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh no, it's all on you now :)
<didrocks> I think, handle the mechanical piece
<cyphermox> didrocks: what?
<Mirv> didrocks: I just plugged my nexus4 into robru's machine :)
<didrocks> and Mirv/robru pair on the testing side
<cyphermox> didrocks: you mean getting robru a device?
<didrocks> cyphermox: ah that, yeah, I'll try, don't worry
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> (I thought you talked about Mir)
<cyphermox> didrocks: in the meantime I have a maguro robru can use
<didrocks> cyphermox: for Mir, do you think it's a good idea?
<cyphermox> didrocks: should work.
<cyphermox> didrocks: there is no alternative, unless there is a free mako somewhere
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, mind letting him meanwhile? at least for this week?
<didrocks> yeah
<cyphermox> didrocks: yes, that's what I meant
<didrocks> oh right, that would be sweet!
<cyphermox> I brought it specifically for that reason
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox :)
<cyphermox> didrocks: can we leave you to harass the necessary people to fix Mir on nakasi?
<cyphermox> I mean, grouper
<cyphermox> damn codenames :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'm a professional harasser :)
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> didrocks: where are you?
<didrocks> cyphermox: in the client room (3rd floor)
<cyphermox> ah ok
<sil2100> didrocks, cyphermox, Mirv, robru: be sure to send me an e-mail near your EOD on what has been done and what needs to be done in my EU timezone, this way we'll have things worked on during your sleep ;)
<robru> sil2100, will do
<didrocks> sil2100: work done while we are sleeping (or waiting because of jetlagged?)? Loving it! :)
<sil2100> ;p
<Mirv> sil2100: I guess we need to retest the desktop side as well from the daily-build PPA
<Mirv> but that's quick with the correctly build packages, the device side is more difficult
<Mirv> especially since I now haven't found a way to run Unity 8 AP:s - which are known to be broken but should be somehow (how?) fixed with the new Mir now
<sil2100> Mirv: so when running them 'normally' they all still fail even with the latest mir and unity8? Or you didn't try the latest bits yet?
<Mirv> sil2100: I tested them on Friday, and yes they fail when I do it the way I did have them running with Mir before
<Mirv> sil2100: but I haven't used the 'install utah locally' method, have you?
<Mirv> I've just used phablet-test-run -n
<sil2100> Mirv: I used it in the past, yes - let me maybe try this now
<sil2100> Mirv: you know if all platform-api bits are rebuilt already now?
<sil2100> Mirv: anyway, the instructions are on the wikipage (at least they should be)
<didrocks> Mirv: maybe disable the automated rebuild if there is one coming soon
<Mirv> sil2100: the instructions are there but I'm worried they're not the perfect ones (yet). so if we find anything additional let's just update the page.
<Mirv> didrocks: where's the schedule right now?
<Mirv> there's a build ongoing atm, though
<didrocks> Mirv: don't trust me, look at the _all-build job
<didrocks> with dailight saving and time shift, I have no idea :)
<Mirv> ah.
<Mirv> thrice a day
<Mirv> so you're right, in 20mins
<Mirv> cyphermox disabled it now with toggle_stack_state
<cyphermox> sil2100: btw, that's in cupstream2distro-config; see --help
<cyphermox> for the magic everything job, that's
<cyphermox> ./toggle_stack_state.py -r head build_all --disable
<sil2100> Oh, nice
<cyphermox> we'll hopefully re-enable before EOD
<Mirv> sil2100: so, platform-api was built but now qtubuntu is building, and then unity-mir
<seb128> larsu, can you add a testcase to bug #1199877 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1199877 in Unity 7.1 "unity-panel-service memory leak and 100% CPU usage" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199877
<sil2100> Mirv: ok, thanks, let's wait for those to finish then
<Laney> darkxst: 17> don't bother, we can upload it there when it's through
<Laney> darkxst: & do you have debdiffs for the patches handy?
<seb128> dobey, is https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/94f7beb32c9a9172de3f9281691510762d655d47 on your todolist? it's one of the most reported saucy issue
<dobey> seb128: no, webkit bugs don't make my todo list
<seb128> dobey, if it's a wekbit bug you might want to reassign it there so webkit maintainers see it on their list?
<seb128> dobey, rather than keeping it on -s-c and ignoring it
<dobey> i thought i did
<seb128> dobey, the tracker has https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1211887 for it
<ubot2> seb128: Error: launchpad bug 1211887 not found
<seb128> which is on s-c
<dobey> seb128: it's 1163886
<seb128> dobey, that's not reassigned either
<dobey> yes i know. i said "i thought i already did"
<seb128> k
<dobey> what is the webkit source package?
<seb128> it would still be nice if you could look at it/upstream the bug at least
<seb128> "webkit"
<dobey> ok, added webkit (Ubuntu) to the bug
<Laney> speaking of that
<dobey> i don't have the time to go chasing upstream for it though
<Laney> can we take webkitgtk?
 * Laney adds it to todo
<seb128> Laney, webkitgtk?
<Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/webkitgtk.html
<seb128> Laney, oh, webkit2, that's being discussed a bit on ubuntu-desktop]
<seb128> @
<Laney> oh yeah I remember seeing that
<Laney> should be alright, it provides the old api
<seb128> Laney, the issue was the xerror bug, but it seems we already have that in the current version
<Laney> yeah?
<Laney> is that confirmed?
<seb128> Laney, well, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/94f7beb32c9a9172de3f9281691510762d655d47
<Laney> ah
<Laney> yes indeed, I clicked into an instance and found the old one
<Laney> xnox: do you remember this bug ^? Did your reproducer require the new webkit?
<sil2100> Mirv: need to EOD for now, but if I get some tests running later on I'll be updating the spreadsheet
<sil2100> o/
<GunnarHj> attente: Hi Will, do you have a minute to talk about bug 1240058?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1240058 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "UI uses chinese, french and english simultaneously" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240058
<Mirv> robru: apt-get install libunity-mir1 libplatform-api1-hybris libubuntu-application-api-mirclient1 libubuntu-application-api-mirserver1 libubuntu-application-api1 libubuntu-platform-hardware-api1 libmirclient4 libmirplatform libmirprotobuf0 libmirserver9 unity8 unity8-fake-env unity8-private
<robru> Mirv, thanks
<tedg> xnox, Ubiquity is confusing.
<tedg> xnox, I want to add "init --user --startup-event indicator-services-start" to the startup
<tedg> xnox, Where do I do that?
<ogra_> ubiquity ships its own dm
<tedg> Kinda, it seems to start a bunch of others...
<ogra_> DMs ?
<ogra_> no
<tedg> And that's what confusing
<tedg> Well I guess multiple WMs
<TheMuso> tedg: You probably want the ubiquity panel code in src/panel I believe.
<ogra_> iirc it uses start on starting "list of all DMs we know"
<TheMuso> IIRC the panel code deals with the indocators.
<ogra_> so that it blocks them
<tedg> Yeah, i was thinking it was bin/ubiquity-dm because that's starts nm-applet
<tedg> But I'm not sure how to parse all the 'ifs"
<ogra_> ah, yeah, it tries to cover all cases for flavours
<ogra_> (xubuntioo doesnt ship compiz, kde uses kdm etc etc)
<ogra_> *xubuntu
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> kwm
<tedg> So I'm not sure how to handle all that.
<ogra_> look for the compiz start code
<ogra_> you most likely only want to change that one
<tedg> I'm thinking it should be in the same cases that we run the ubiquity panel.
<ogra_> yeah, most likely
<tedg> Is there a way to test this?
<tedg> Aside from finding a machine that needs an install?
<tedg> :-)
<ogra_> a VM ?
<ogra_> (btw, there is #ubuntu-installer)
<tedg> Hmm, okay.  I don't have the disk space for it in my laptop.
<tedg> :-/
<tedg> Okay, apparently it's lunch time.  thanks for the help ogra_!
<ogra_> :)
<darkxst> Laney, nope, but its just this patch from git https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=11d997c42bb265d29aec84b88ea9ecdd51a2dfe9
<jasoncwarner_> hey seb128 and ted, having an issue with my phone atm. I think I mistyped my password for a wifi connection and now I can't find a way to retype it! it just won't connect and no way to change/clear it or what not.
<jasoncwarner_> just an FYI, really...bug and testing thingy
<darkxst> Laney, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/146223575/gnome-shell_3.8.3-1ubuntu4_3.8.3-1ubuntu5.diff.gz
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner_: can I help?
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner_: the password changelog and removing connections is something that is planned, right ted?
<mterry> robert_ancell, "Logging to /var/log/lightdm/(null)-greeter.log"
<robert_ancell> mterry, ah
<robert_ancell> mterry, you can probably set the ID to "mir" by default and then set it when you connect the session to the display server
<robert_ancell> that log should probably be based on the greeter name, not the display server name
<mterry> robert_ancell, agreed
<mterry> robert_ancell, another session vs server problem
<robert_ancell> yep
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-29
<Laney> darkxst: & cinnamon?
<Laney> also, please apply for at least ubuntu-gnome-dev
<darkxst> Laney, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/146225058/cinnamon_1.7.4-2ubuntu3_1.7.4-2ubuntu4.diff.gz
<darkxst> Laney, am planning doing that soon, just need to get application sorted
<Laney> oh ok
<Laney> Probably have to look at it tomorrow
<seb128> happyaron, hey, could you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1221593 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1221593 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-ui-gtk3 crashed with SIGABRT in _g_log_abort()" [High,Confirmed]
<mlankhorst> morning
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Good morning!
<RAOF> mlankhorst: You wouldn't know, off the top of your head, how to get a radeon GPU to wait for rendering to a bo before copying from it, other than radeon_bo_wait?
<mlankhorst> RAOF: copying on the cpu, or gpu?
<RAOF> GPU
<mlankhorst> oh you just need to annotate you use it, and then it waits automatically
<RAOF> Well, should be on the GPU. Copying via EXA :)
<mlankhorst> well if you use existing methods that annotation should already be there
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Hm. Where is that annotation done?
<mlankhorst> RAOF: probably shows up as relocation, lets just say it's hard in radeon to do it wrongly
<mlankhorst> only newer cards that support vm don't need relocations
<RAOF> Ah.
<RAOF> So, if a radeon_bo_wait() in copy_to_mir fixes some corruption, it's likely that this is not actually a fix, but merely slowing things down enough to avoid some other problem.
<mlankhorst> indeed
<mlankhorst> well
<mlankhorst> you need to wait on the target, probably :P
<mlankhorst> or at least flush the command stream
<mlankhorst> command stream doesn't need to be completed, but it has to be submitted before mir tries to use the buffer
<RAOF> Which would be done by radeon_cs_flush_indirect, if I'm not mistaken?
<RAOF> Which we indeed do before sending the buffer to Mir.
<mlankhorst> RAOF: what do you see then when not waiting?
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Roughly speaking, this:
<RAOF> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xmir/+bug/1233545
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1233545 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "XMir screen corruption on radeon chipset" [Critical,Confirmed]
<mlankhorst> meh I'll give up on the glamor-egl bug and just file an upstream one, damned corruption.. I'll see if I can reproduce the radeon one
<mlankhorst> RAOF: lets just say this, native mir clients don't wait for the bo to finish either right?
<RAOF> mlankhorst: I'm actually not sure; they *do* call flush() before submitting.
<mlankhorst> and can you accept glamor-egl to saucy? It fixes running default configuration saucy with the binary drivers.
<RAOF> Sure.
<RAOF> Also, ???!
<mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glamor-egl/+bug/1232658
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232658 in glamor-egl (Ubuntu) "glamoregl fails to load with binary drivers" [Critical,Fix released]
<mlankhorst> turns out ordering is important ;)
<mlankhorst> -	dh $@ --with autoreconf,xsf,quilt --builddirectory=build/
<mlankhorst> +	dh $@ --with quilt,autoreconf,xsf --builddirectory=build/
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Going to add a saucy task for that bug? Also, some bare-bones testing instructions?
<mlankhorst> oops added raring lol
<mlankhorst> barebones testing: install any type of binary driver, try to start x
<mlankhorst> done
<mlankhorst> RAOF: just out of curiosity do you have a debug option to always count the entire screen as damaged?
<mlankhorst> vila: seems to be the recordmydesktop thing crashing in conjunction with autopilot tests
<mlankhorst> if running a separate "/usr/bin/recordmydesktop --no-sound --no-frame -o /dev/null" before calling  autopilot run -v autopilot.tests.functional it crashes almost right away..
<RAOF> mlankhorst: I don't have such a debug option, no. It might be worth adding one.
<abhishek> I want to run Ubuntu Desktop on the device which is having Android ...Please help me
<vila> mlankhorst: not sure I follow, recordmydesktop is crashing or does it make the x server crashing ?
<abhishek> I have IFC6410 development board which is preloaded with Android. I want to run Ubuntu Desktop on this. No ubuntu is officially available for this board. Can someone please help me in creating the boot.img Ubuntu image for this board\
<mlankhorst> vila: something recordmydesktop does makes xserver crash..
<vila> mlankhorst: good, so you mean you've reduced the reproducing recipe even further ?
<mlankhorst> a little
<mlankhorst> but only running recordmydesktop doesn't trigger it, so a second component is needed..
<abhishek> Please help me in creating the Ubuntu Desktop image for the ARM board
<abhishek> :q
<mlankhorst> vila: well it crashes on the first test if i run with recordmydesktop
<mlankhorst> which was autopilot.tests.functional.test_dbus_query.DbusQueryTests.test_select_single_on_object_with_param
<mlankhorst> hm minimal testcase: start recordmydesktop with compiz enabled for compositing, run window-mocker, kill window-mocker window
<vila> mlankhorst: great, please add those to the bug report and I'll try to followup with whoever is responsible for the tests once we have a fix
<mlankhorst> it's probably 'trying to read the contents of the window after being removed from compositing, or something..
<mlankhorst> I added the testcase for the bug anyway
<vila> mlankhorst: great
<mlankhorst> I fear that this is something upstream has to resolve, though..
<vila> mlankhorst: can you mail a short summary to didrocks, I start losing track of what the next step is :-/
<mlankhorst> poke amd devs about the bug, I guess :)
<mlankhorst> or glamor-egl devs, dno
<vila> mlankhorst: right, I have no idea who those guys are :) So, didrocks should know better since he knows the impact on ci
<mlankhorst> but yeah seems running that small test crashes every time
<mlankhorst> hm found a possible fix anyway
<mlankhorst> ugh how is this even working to begin with :s
<mhr3> tseliot, so... when will we get proper opencl support on ubuntu? :)
<mlankhorst> derp
<tseliot> mhr3: err... what do you mean?
<mlankhorst> vila: seems to be caused by PIXMAP_PRIVATE re-use :P
<vila> mlankhorst: is this good or bad ? ;)
<mlankhorst> good, I hope
<mlankhorst> but no idea really, meh :/
<mlankhorst> hm indeed
<mlankhorst> vila: I think glamor-egl is not allowed to use PIXMAP_PRIVATE
<vila> mlankhorst: sorry, I have no idea what this means :-/
<mlankhorst> vila: i think glamor is re-using a key that xorg uses internally, would explain the valgrind error
<vila> mlankhorst: ha, a glamor coding bug then ? I thought it means glamor design was not supporting some higher level feature
<mlankhorst> possibly, no diea yet
<mlankhorst> hm, seems theoretically allowed, weird
<mlankhorst> RAOF: how do you keep up with Xorg? It really really needs less layers of obfuscation
<KruSha666> morning desktoppers
<KruSha666> 900D /\/\0r|\|1|\|9 UBU|\|7U d3$|<70P
<KruSha666> hello
<attente> hello KruSha666
<mitya57> 900D 3\/3|\|1|\|9 |_/Â·\|\|3Y :)
<KruSha666> 7|-|3 L3373$7 d3$|<70P 4r0U|\|D
 * KruSha666 coughs
<seb128> hey
<seb128> I'm watching you guys!!!
<desrt> krusha?  seriously?
<tseliot> mhr3: what do you mean?
<mhr3> tseliot, our nvidia pkgs aren't overly opencl-friendly
<tseliot> mhr3: any bug reports in particular?
<mlankhorst> I guess ICD support for mesa is missing
<mhr3> tseliot, the problem is that every opencl implementation ships its own libOpenCL.so and we're not spliting those into separate pkgs
<mhr3> because yea, if you want to have multiple icds, it's just not possible to install all
<mhr3> tseliot, debian is going the right way these days, they split all the icds into separate pkgs
<mhr3> tseliot, of course that would mean we'd have like 5 pkgs for each nvidia driver version :/
<mhr3> and if there wasn't enough of those :P
<tseliot> mhr3: debian has the nvidia packages split into several packages, which is something I'm trying to avoid unless it's really necessary
<mhr3> tseliot, right, but as i said, by doing that they have full icd support
<mhr3> you can mix and match any icd with any libopencl
<tseliot> mhr3: I can probably split cuda and openCL in 14.04. Backporting drivers to 13.10 or 12.04 would then be a bit of a hell though...
<mhr3> tseliot, well you know, with all the available icds out there it would be nice to be able to have more than one
<mhr3> tseliot, as in pretty much every laptop these days can have 3 opencl platforms - cpu, integrated gpu, discrete gpu
<mhr3> and our packaging is limiting this to just one
<tseliot> mhr3: I'll probably do this in the transition from 319 to 331. We're going to have a separate kernel module anyway for cuda...
<mhr3> tseliot, would be nice, the minimal thing that would be needed is just to move the libOpenCL.so into a separate pkg
<mhr3> meaning the .so that's current in nvidia-[ver]
<mhr3> and fglrx-...
<tseliot> mhr3: right
<mhr3> and installing the icd into /etc/OpenCL/vendors... (at least i think that was still missing last time i checked)
<tseliot> mhr3: well, currently there are links in that directory which point to the actual files
<tseliot> but yes, I'll make sure it's all in the right place
<mhr3> tseliot, i wrote http://mhr3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/opencl-on-ubuntu-1304.html some time ago, so feel free to ping me if you'd need me to test a new layout or something :)
<tseliot> mhr3: thanks. I'll also have a look at the Debian packages. This time I think I'll fix things for good
<mhr3> tseliot, awesomeness :)
<tseliot> :)
<Laney> darkxst: here?
<mlankhorst> RAOF: no glitches here..
<mlankhorst> ati just worksforme on trusty
<mlankhorst> except if I use glamor, unsurprisingly
<Laney> darkxst: I've updated the media-keys patch to just always start the keygrabber except for 'gnome'
<mlankhorst> seb128: meeting time?
<seb128> mlankhorst, oh, sorry, we are skipping this week since most of us are in Oakland, technically it was also an hour ago (DST change)
<mlankhorst> oh right, anyway.. android to dma-fence porting, more drm-dkms backporting, mesa 9.2.2 upload, working on glamor-egl bugs
<mlankhorst> gone :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks ;-)
<ritz> ChrisTownsend,  hi, busy ? question . wrt bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1199015  . Any suggestions on trying to isolate the fix ?
<dobey> seb128: hey, i didn't switch the dupes around this time! it was "Shaun P" the reporter of the one bug that i marked won't fix, apparently
<ChrisTownsend> ritz: Hi, I just looked at the bug and off the top of my head, I don't have any ideas.  Is this only specific to Precise?
<ritz> anything before 0.9.10
<ritz> fixed in saucy
<ChrisTownsend> ritz: Ok, that's good info.  I will need to debug to have some idea, but I have a pretty big backlog atm.  I will try to keep it on my radar and see if I can at least see about getting this fixed in Precise.
<ritz> hmm, thank you
<ChrisTownsend> ritz: I'll assign myself to the bug to make sure I remember it:)
<seb128> dobey, hey, don't worry, I'm going to keep it this way until I get free slot to look at that, I'm going to reopen/file a new bug then
<dobey> seb128: ah, ok. just didn't want you to think i was trying to be a pain. :)
<ritz> ChrisTownsend,  thanks. I am kindda of tired of bisecting compiz, rebuilding compiz and unity
<ritz> what is the usual process here ?
<ChrisTownsend> ritz: Umm, you're doing it the way I would:)  And yes, it is very tedious.
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1232419
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232419 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[xsettings]: gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in notify_have_shell()" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> dobey, thanks ;-)
<happyaron> seb128: I will have a look at the bug tomorrow and I'm going to bed now..
<seb128> happyaron, hey, thanks
<happyaron> maybe bug #1245925 also needs comments from people working on it.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1245925 in maliit-framework (Ubuntu) "Troublesome export in /etc/profile.d/maliit-framework.sh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245925
<seb128> Laney, could you commit https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.4.2-0ubuntu0.12 and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.4.2-0ubuntu0.13 to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/precise/?
<Laney> oh that exists?
<Laney> YES! YES I CAN!
<seb128> desrt, online?
<Mirv> cyphermox: can you pkg ack http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Unity/job/cu2d-unity-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_libunity_7.1.3+14.04.20131029.1-0ubuntu1.diff ?
<seb128> attente, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697002
<ubot2> Gnome bug 697002 in general "Grab and emit a signal when XK_ISO_Next_Group is pressed" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Mirv> cyphermox: nevermind
<darkxst> Laney, ok, guess I will need to rebase bug 1232419 then
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232419 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "[xsettings]: gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in notify_have_shell()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232419
<mterry> seb128, why is pitivi in main?
<seb128> mterry, we were talking about installing by default, back in the day
<seb128> I wonder if we put it to supported/dvd by then and let it there
<mterry> seb128, seeded-in-ubuntu isn't showing anything...
<seb128> mterry, I can't find anything either, weird ... I guess it's worth asking on #ubuntu-devel
<cyphermox> Mirv: so no need for an ack of that?
<Mirv> cyphermox: ahum, I thought it was a core dev approving the commit but actually yes please do ack
<cyphermox> ok, just a second
<Mirv> cyphermox: but it's this adding of two symbols http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk/revision/305
<Mirv> plus ABI bump
<Mirv> but I fumbled since I thought it was acked by a core-dev already so I pushed the button already
<cyphermox> Mirv: I don't see the thing now
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> well, yeah, it looks fine
<cyphermox> it's a little non-obvious at first because that's just exposing generated getters/setters
<Mirv> yeah I saw that but it seemed correct then
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> it looks right, no worries
<Mirv> thanks
<cyphermox> Mirv: I'm a bit stuck w.r.t VPN atm, can you please check if address-book-app was rebuild recently to get rev 109?
<Mirv> cyphermox: just a sec
<Mirv> cyphermox: 53 minutes ago, but bzr 108 still. do you want me to rerun it? apparently 109 came around 15mins after that
<Mirv> well rerunning anyhow
<cyphermox> thanks
<Mirv> cyphermox: address-book-app bzr109 in PPA (built)
<cyphermox> Mirv: thanks!
 * Mirv added lp:ubuntu-settings-components to our TODO list, but didn't assign myself to it yet. it's free to take if you have time
<Mirv> ie daily releasing that
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> Laney, still planning to commit those precise gnome-control-center SRUs to the vcs? (/me wants to do another SRU there)
<Laney> did
<Laney> or did I?
<Laney> oh that's amusing
<Laney> I did gsd
<seb128> Laney, hehe ;-)
<Laney> are you SRUing that sleep thing?
<seb128> Laney, I was going to, if you want to do it though feel free
<Laney> not especially
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-30
<seb128> k, so I'm going to do it
<Laney> I was just going to say that I asked them in the MP to contact the SRU team to see if that kind of thing is ok
<seb128> I've already commited ot the current vcs
<Laney> does the bug have the right info?
<seb128> the SRU branch is targetting the wrong Vcs
<seb128> I want to ask them to fix it
<seb128> but I want the vcs to be updated first
<seb128> to not have to ask them to rebase later
<seb128> I'm going to ask about the SRU details at the same time I ask them to fix the vcs
<Laney> right, pushed
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> I changed the changelog message in the one you pushed to trunk btw
<seb128> bbiab
<Laney> don't like it saying stuff about OEM partners
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ok, done here, I'm coming back to the desktop room, see you in a bit
<Laney> k
<xclaesse> is there a reason why language-pack-gnome-fr-base is still installing evolution-3.6.mo instead of 3.8 ?
<xclaesse> ok it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/1238521
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238521 in Ubuntu Translations "Evolution is not localized in Ubuntu 13.10" [High,New]
<Laney> didrocks: robru: mterry: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/libunity-webapps/webbrowser-app_to_suggests/+merge/186284
<Laney> I suggest reverting that rather than seeding
<Laney> it broke image builds at the time
<Laney> so we had to do that
<mterry> didrocks, robru ^
<mterry> oh heh
<mterry> I'm an idiot
<Laney> hur de hur
<robru> lol
<robru> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/libunity-webapps/require-webapps/+merge/193173
<seb128_> xclaesse, @evolution: the new template didn't get imported, I'm fixing it
<xclaesse> seb128, cool, thanks :)
<xclaesse> seb128, speaking about evolution, google email configured in UOA still doesn't work... is that known?
<xclaesse> I get "Data source '<user>@gmail.com' does not support OAuth 2.0 authentication"
<xclaesse> had to reconfigure my email account in evo instead of using uoa for that
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, oauth 2.0 has just been added in the newer version and we don't have it yet in Ubuntu, we are going to look at fixing it soon
<xclaesse> seb128, was working in 13.04
<xclaesse> it regressed in 13.10
<seb128> xclaesse, no, 13.04 was using goa
<seb128> xclaesse, you can remove evolution-data-server-uoa
<seb128> that should work like in 13.04 then
<xclaesse> ah, maybe I was using a ppa for that actually
<xclaesse> seb128, I don't have evolution-data-server-uoa, it got removed at some point in 13.10 dev
<Laney> yes
<Laney> We'll add it back with 3.10
<seb128> pitti_, we had an outdated evolution template in saucy (evolution-3.6), I just approved evolution-3.8 from the launchpad UI ... is that going to make it to langpack updates in saucy or do we need manual tweaks to get that in?
<yookoala> hello
<yookoala> I'm making an icon for an input method. Is there any specification or documentation I can refer to?
<tkamppeter> larsu, hi
<larsu> tkamppeter: hi Till, how are you?
<tkamppeter> larsu, hi, can you have a look at bug 1196986? The Japanese OpenPrinting guys are waiting. Thanks.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1196986 in cups-filters (Ubuntu) "bannertopdf can't handle Japanese characters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196986
<Laney> seb128: do we have any saucy branches for SRUs?
<seb128> Laney, no, not worth it on non LTS series
<Laney> k
<seb128> Laney, want to SRU something?
<Laney> maybe
<kenvandine> mpt, do you have a few minutes to chat about the background panel?
<mpt> yes
<kenvandine> Excellent, I'll come and find you
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<Laney> why don't we have the games on powerpc?
<Laney> oh, huh, I guess it doesn't matter if we dropped the images
<Laney> seeding cheese btw as discussed yesterday
<mpt> didrocks, do you have five minutes to review Bruno's patch attached to bug 1165104?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1165104 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf is only showing the pc you are on in raring and isn't sharing to other machines" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165104
<didrocks> mpt: are we sure that the server is still running/working?
<mpt> didrocks, the two screenshots in bug 1165104 were taken in the same minute. If the server shut down between them, that's an impressive coincidence.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1165104 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "oneconf is only showing the pc you are on in raring and isn't sharing to other machines" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165104
<didrocks> mpt: ok, I'll review that then
<mpt> thanks :-)
<didrocks> mpt: thanks for the head's up :)
<GunnarHj> attente: ping?
<attente> GunnarHj, hey
<attente> bschaefer, js/ui/shellDBus.js in gnome-shell
<robert_ancell> dbarth, have you tested remote login with the guest apparmor fix?
<attente> bschaefer, also, if you want to know how mutter is emitting the accelerator-activated signal, there's meta_display_accelerator_activate () in src/core/display.c in mutter
<bschaefer> attente, cool thanks, ill have to take a look
<dbarth> robert_ancell: still not yet sorry
<dbarth> and i had to remove the package to build another thing that was breaking with the -dev packages for lightdm-gobject
<dbarth> so i need to re-verify my setup before testing
<GunnarHj> attente: Hi, can we talk about bug 1240058?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1240058 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "UI uses chinese, french and english simultaneously" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240058
<attente> GunnarHj, sure
<attente> i don't really know what the right thing is to do there though
<GunnarHj> attente: When we talked about it the other day, you expressed some doubt about modifying accountsservice to fix it. Why?
<Laney> It might be sensible to add API rather than changing what we have
<attente> GunnarHj, not opposed to modifying the language tools
<attente> but having them behave differently depending on platform? maybe
<attente> i think Laney has the right idea
<GunnarHj> attente: We will need to make a-s behave differently depending on platform anyway (Ubuntu vs Xubuntu and Lubuntu).
<GunnarHj> attente: What's Laney's idea?
<attente> GunnarHj, right, but we could've done that by functionality rather than by environment
<attente> adding a different method that explicitly sets the language without adding it to the fallback list
<Laney> Provide enough API so that frontends can themselves decide what to do
<Laney> it's wrong to do it inside AS
<GunnarHj> attente, Laney: Aha, you would prefer a new method?
<Laney> yes
<attente> +1, although i don't know what it should look like
<GunnarHj> Laney, attente: I would like to think about it for day or two, with that idea in mind.
<attente> i think what would've been nice is to have set_language and add_language as separate methods, but we can't do that now
<GunnarHj> attente: Why not?
<Laney> I think SetLanguage is already provided upstream and we just modify it to also write to ~/.pam_environment?
<Laney> but yeah it'd be bad to break the contract
<Laney> Not the nicest API, I can't even tell where the priority list comes from there
<GunnarHj> Laney: It's my fault. ;-)
<attente> Laney, the language-tools do a check to see if there's a colon in the value
<attente> if there is, it appends
<attente> if not, it just sets it, iirc
<Laney> oh
<Laney> yeah, that's a bit buried
<GunnarHj> Laney, attente: There are a reason for everything, but indeed, adding a new method is possible. The method for setting format is not there in the original a-s either, but it's an Ubuntu special.
<Laney> I think that one is OK
<Laney> It's just the bit with the priority list
<attente> we could try a method that only clears LANGUAGE
<Laney> which is SetLanguage AFAIK
<attente> then on u-s-s, make sure we call that clear, before doing the set
<attente> i don't know what the repercussions of having an empty LANGUAGE are, if somebody decides to clear and not set it to something meaningful
<GunnarHj> Laney: As long as language-selector is in use (by somebody) we need to deal with the priority list as well. That's why my first thought was to make a-s deal with it conditionally when calling SetLanguage.
<Laney> Yeah, that's why I'm proposing not changing it
<GunnarHj> attente: Do you mean that u-s-s would first call the SetLanguage method, which does something with LANGUAGE in ~/.pam_environment, and then immediatedly removes the LANGUAGE line? Sounds a little clumsy to me.
<attente> GunnarHj, no, i'm thinking u-s-s first calls a ClearLanguage method, followed by SetLanguage
<attente> because that would allow u-s-s to set one single language, even if the semantics of SetLanguage are to add it to a list
<attente> but i'm not sure about having a ClearLanguage method either tbh
<Laney> that or SetLiteralLanguage or something
<Laney> GunnarHj: larsu says that upstream is looking for a solution to this btw, so you might want to have a chat with them
<Laney> then we could do this there
<larsu> GunnarHj: ya, stef walters is the guy to talk to
<larsu> stefw on gimpnet
<GunnarHj> Laney, larsu: Which upstream are you talking about? GNOME or Debian?
<Laney> Accoutnsservice
<Laney> with correct spelling
<larsu> GNOME
<GunnarHj> Laney: Sure, but the ultimate accountsservice is GNOME, while Debian is also involved in Ubuntu.
<GunnarHj> larsu
<Laney> yes
<GunnarHj> larsu: Thanks, I'll talk to stef walters then, to see what the plans are.
<Laney> AAAAAAAaaaaanyway, for now one of the two proposed methods should work, and for the long run someone ought to work with upstream to do it properly there
<Laney> IMO
<GunnarHj> Laney: I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is that GNOME hasn't been very interested in listening to special requirements from distros.
<Laney> It's worth explaining our requirements and having the conversation
<Laney> sounds like stefw is keen to have it fixed there, so there's a good chance
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, hopefully you are right.
<Laney> optimism!
<GunnarHj> ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-31
<Laney> darkxst: gjs/ppc test failure :(
<Laney> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu-saucy
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gnome-control-center/lp1218322
<Rodge_> hey folks! For those who have (had) the graphics card ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 (e.g. on the elderly laptop HP nx9420), have you succeeded in getting a useful driver for it in Ubuntu 13.10?
<Rodge_> I don't want to format my drive just to find out it was worthless... (Having Win7 on it now) .. OR, any advice on some stable, free "Partition Magic"?
<sarnold> Rodge_: you may have better luck in #ubuntu, this channel is more for development -of- the desktop..
<Rodge_> aaah :) thanks!
<sarnold> Rodge_: to that point, I'd hope a livecd / usbstick would be useful?
<sarnold> (thogh maybe it'd stickto horrible drivers.. hrm.)
<Rodge_> sarnold:  hm.. long time since I've used a liveCD/-stick.. is it possible to upgrade the "live OS" and apply updates after reboot?
<sarnold> Rodge_: I think it'll all fall down once you reboot; but you -might- be able to apply the updates while it is running, and then e.g. restart X or something. I've not tried ;)
<darkxst> Laney, looks like its been broken for a while, just that tests were non-fatal previously
<darkxst> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/148350924/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-powerpc.gjs_1.37.6-0ubuntu1_UPLOADING.txt.gz
<darkxst> Laney, it broke with the js17 transition back late July
<mlankhorst> morning
<nessita> hello everyeon! quick question: I'm running a fully updated saucy, and since about a week I'm having noticeable delays on accessing my hard drive (I can tell because Firefox hangs when going to the cache, terminal TAB completion is slower than before, bzr st takes for ever, etc). Is there any way of diagnosing what's happening?
<ogra_> nessita, did you check with top if there are any stray process (or better install the more userfriendly htop)
<nessita> ogra_, I've checking with top regularly, my non-trained eyes did not notice anything unusual
<nessita> I've been*
<nessita> ogra_, anything particular I should look for in top (or htop)?
<ogra_> just the top consumers of CPU and ram ...
<ogra_> and if there is something that eats much of either every time you check ... when checking over i.e. a day
<nessita> ogra_, usually firefox is the one at the top of top
<ogra_> also how much ram does your box have ... slowness can easily be  caused if the system uses swap
<nessita> 8G
<ogra_> well, the should be sufficialt
<ogra_> *sufficient
<nessita> swap is not being used every time I checked
<ogra_> yeah, with 8G it should be used very rarely if at all
<nessita> ogra_, also, the "use case" for my box has not changed (a couple of LXC containers, a couple of browser, a couple of terminals)
<ogra_> your disk settings in the mail look all right
<ogra_> (seemingly using the most performant settings the drive supports)
<ogra_> if you can not pinpoint it to some specific app i would guess it is a kernel or filesystem issue
<nessita> ogra_, would you know if this could be tied to an update on firefox (1-2 weeks in the past)?
<nessita> I did notice that every time I check top firefox is at the top
<ogra_> probably ... if you see firefox in top, how much CPU/RSS does it consume ?
<ogra_> also do you have a lot flash based pages open usually ?
<ogra_> (flash can be really evil)
<nessita> ogra_, I'd say None, but some pages that do lots of ajax (twitter, gmail)
<dobey> firefox is easily the largest consumer of RSS on my system
<dobey> and i have 16 GB RAM
<dobey> i had it at 1.8 GB RSS the other day, when i had to restart it
<nessita>  3256 nessita   20   0 1375m 468m  68m S   2.7  5.9  12:53.57 firefox
<dobey> firefox 25 supposedly is better at releasing memory, but it's still at ~800M RSS for me right now
<nessita> 468m for me
<nessita> anyways, *right now* I don't notice any slows down
<dobey> mine's been running for a few days, but yeah
<dobey> nessita: how big is VIRT in firefox?
<nessita> 1447m
<ogra_> 800M is nothing on a 8/16G machine
<nessita> hum, opening mail.yahoo.com makes firefox spike in CPU usage
<dobey> ogra_: no, but firefox also has no reason to actually be using that much
<ogra_> well, it should only spike on one CPU core
<dobey> ogra_: and it is a lot on my 2GB or 1GB machines
<ogra_> so that shouldnt gegrade performance if you have an SMP machine
<nessita> ogra_, yes, it does spike only one core (from 30% to 70%)
<ogra_> yeah, that wont cause the slowness
<nessita> ogra_, right, I have 4 cores with smp
<nessita> but I insist the slowness is when accessing the hard drive
<nessita> bzr st hangs, for example
<ogra_> right, so your system still has enough fuel to be snappy ... talk to the kernel guys in #ubuntu-kernel if they know about any specific disk problems
<dobey> disk i/o is typically the cause for slowness, yes
<nessita> dobey, any way of checking disk io on htop?
<nessita> wow, this is odd:
<nessita> 1179 root       20   0  204M 74524 33036 S 62.4  0.9  8:31.63 /usr/bin/X -core :0 -auth /var/run/lightdm/root/:0
<nessita> 62.4% of CPU
<ogra_> constantly ?
<nessita> and it matched the computer hanging
<jibel> nessita, there is iotop for IOs
<nessita> ogra_, nopes, now it went down, and disk stopped spinning
<ogra_> yeah
<nessita> jibel, thanks, installing
<dobey> nessita: install iotop
<nessita> running it right now
<nessita> nothing odds pops up right now (but slowness is not noticeable yet)
<nessita> will keep looking and trying to gather info
<nessita> ogra_, dobey, jibel: thanks!
<ogra_> :)
<Laney> darkxst: Right, I checked the previous upload and it had the problem too
<Laney> it didn't fail the build though as the tests were non-fatal then
<Laney>  /sb e
<Laney> oops
<Mirv> Laney: hi you've done manual uploads of indicator-datetime and libindicator to trusty, which break the prepare jobs in cu2d. could you push to their trunks manually something that syncs the debian/changelog from your uploads without breaking anything otherwise? at least initially I became confused when dgetting from archives and unpacking on top of the bzr.
<Laney> I just copied them from saucy.
<Mirv> Laney: so can you push your uploads' debian/changelog and needed changes to lp:libindicator and lp:indicator-datetime then? I think they have diverged now, with other 14.04 changes in the branches but the saucy changes not in there.
<Laney> They aren't my uploads
<Laney> Also cyphermox was handling datetime
<Mirv> Laney: ok, can you then ask cyphermox and is it seb128 who did the libindicator to saucy uploads to have both the 13.10 and trunk bzr:s up-to-date?
<Mirv> well they were just pinged now obviously :)
<cyphermox> the what?
<Mirv> cyphermox: indicator-datetime for you, trunk and 13.10 branches vs. what was uploaded to saucy and copied to trusty by Laney
<Mirv> to fix cu2d for both head and saucy
<cyphermox> it's just a matter of pushing the changelog for indicator-datetime, I'll get to it soonish. all the commits are already in trunk
<Mirv> cyphermox: it seemed confusing to me, so I'd rather have you check both 13.10 + trunk vs. the archives
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv: it's stupid to have to do manual copies just because saucy packages are carried/copied to new serie
<Mirv> seb128: they were not carried but uploaded manually by Laney. the correct way would have been to forward-port the needed saucy changes to trunk, and have cu2d release it
<cyphermox> seb128: no... it's not an upload that happened in daily-release it just needs to get the right changelog
<seb128> Mirv, not it's not, it's a pocket copy from saucy-updates
<Mirv> seb128: aha, ok, but there are anyway changes in trunk that are not in saucy and vice versa, someone needs to not just do the copies but have the bzr branches updated?
<seb128> Mirv, seems like cyphermox is on it
<Mirv> seb128: he's on it for indicator-datetime, but libindicator should also be checked - it seemed like the indicator-ng.c change is not in trunk
<seb128> Mirv, it is, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/libindicator/always-create-widgets/+merge/191698
<Mirv> seb128: so that's what the debian/changelog mentions with "backport fix for indicator icons notupdating sometimes"?
<Mirv> yeah, it seems to address the same bug
<seb128> Mirv, yes, backport is "copy the trunk fix to stable"
<Mirv> ok, then I'll just sync the changelog to trunk. I guess saucy cu2d is still broken similarly
<Mirv> seb128: could you use a branch merge and cu2d the next time?
<Mirv> for saucy
<Mirv> the processes don't really work yet, in terms of how people should be instructed to utilize cu2d and ask for SRU:s.
<seb128> Mirv, we would have, but we needed the SRU out and the CI team didn't have set up merges for the stable branch yet
<seb128> Mirv, next cycle we should ensure that the mergers are working before branching
<seb128> Mirv, it sucks to not be able to commit to stable series when you need to get SRU fixes out
<Mirv> seb128: ok, that sucks. cu2d would work with a manual merge too, but realistically publishing of saucy SRU:s via cu2d has not had time reserved for it, and as mentioned we do not have a process of even requesting those SRU:s at the moment
<Mirv> (unless broadening the amount of people who can 'push the button' in cu2d)
<Laney> so the only thing really missing is pushing the branch in the libindicator case?
 * Laney looks at bregma 
<Mirv> Laney: yes, I pushed to lp:libindicator now. when we get some sort of request SRU process ongoing, the 13.10 branch changelog can also be fixed
<Laney> ok
<robert_ancell> charles, bug 1246812
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246812 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Can open Evolution in greeter mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246812
<Laney> it's Ke$ha666 now
<charles> robert_ancell, ta
<robert_ancell> dbarth_, any update on testing remote login with guest fixes?
<xclaesse> seb128, we fixed empathy not connecting to facebook upstream
<xclaesse> it has been broken for weeks if not months :/
<xclaesse> seb128, you really should pick https://git.gnome.org/browse/empathy/commit/?id=8b783df8f293a93405b591522f5289006286f1f4 into all ubuntu versions
<seb128> xclaesse, works with uoa for me
<xclaesse> seb128, it could still be working for a few people, depends on the facebook server version
<seb128> xclaesse, do you know if there is a bug about that in launchpad?
<xclaesse> they upgraded a part of the world
<xclaesse> seb128, dunno about lp, but upstream is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707747
<ubot2> Gnome bug 707747 in Auth client "Can not log into Facebook Chat using X-FACEBOOK-PLATFORM" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<xclaesse> seb128,  the patch has been pushed to empathy git for gnome-3-4 up to master
<seb128> xclaesse, ok, I'm going to do SRUs, thanks
<xclaesse> seb128, not that 3.4 is the LTS version, and the commit a sligthly different than in other branches
<xclaesse> *note
<seb128> xclaesse, ok, I'm just going to take the git diff for each serie
<xclaesse> seb128, please check if you can still connect your account without the patch
<xclaesse> seb128, if it works it means your account hasn't been upgraded in facebook server, dunno why...
<xclaesse> but it would be interesting the test the patched version then
<xclaesse> to be sure it works in both cases
<xclaesse> even if I don't see why it wouldn't
<seb128> xclaesse, should it display an error in the UI if it fails to connect?
<xclaesse> in empathy window, yes
<xclaesse> you can launch empathy-accounts to check if your account is online
<seb128> xclaesse, I've no error in empathy but it's not listing my fb contacts either
<seb128> ok, empathy-accounts says that auth failed
<xclaesse> seb128, if you re-set your presence to available it will probably retry to connect and the error will appear in the empathy window
<seb128> xclaesse, indeed
<xclaesse> I think it's broken for everyone now, they deployed their new server
<radix> hello, what should I do if I'd like to report a bug in the GNOME3-Next PPA?
<darkxst> radix, just use ubuntu-bug as normal
<radix> hmm. I don't know which package to specify
<darkxst> Laney, either way it is completely broken, there is no way anything would even run if it can't even pass the first test
<radix> I guess I'll do gnome-shell...
<radix> thanks darkxst
<Laney> darkxst: correct, but now it needs to be fixed one way or another
<darkxst> Laney, I could look at the failure, but don't have access to a powerpc machine
<robru> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/libfriends/noppc/+merge/193488
<Laney> darkxst: me either (not an Ubuntu one anyway)
<Laney> and it passes on Debian :(
<darkxst> Laney, debian doesnt have the js17 branch though
<darkxst> 1.36 passed on Ubuntu
<darkxst> Laney, anyway so not much can do other than make tests non-fatal again
<Laney> ah
<Laney> let me try the 17 branch on the debian ppc porter
<Laney> do a debdiff to make them non-fatal on ppc and I'll sponsor that
<mterry> seb128, lp:~mterry/unity8/split
<darkxst> Laney, can do, but probably wont be able to get to it until next week
<Laney> k
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv, can you SRU ido/13.10: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/+bug/1246536
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246536 in ido (Ubuntu Saucy) "segfault in menu_hidden()" [High,In progress]
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv: today would be good, the new GTK is making that bug easier to trigger
<seb128> new GTK has been SRU accepted earlier today
<cyphermox> ae
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv: the commit is in 13.10 vcs and I've made the bug report SRU compliant already, it's just kicking an upload
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> Mirv: I kick it now
<Mirv> cyphermox: seb128: ok
<Mirv> cyphermox: it seems it worked fine for indicator-appmenu you did earlier, nice to have SRU-cu2d:s ongoing
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> xclaesse, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/3.8.4-1ubuntu2 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/3.4.2.3-0ubuntu1.1
<cyphermox> seb128: just waiting for it to get done building now...
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv: can you do another hud SRU to saucy to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hud/+bug/1244688 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1244688 in hud (Ubuntu Saucy) "/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/hud/hud-service:5:name_lost_cb:actually_do_call:do_call:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> cyphermox, Mirv: infinity just moved the previous one to -updates so we should be good to do another upload
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<Mirv> seb128: it also fixes bug #1243654 it seems
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1243654 in hud (Ubuntu) "window-stack-bridge crashed with SIGSEGV in BamfWindow::windowId()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243654
<seb128> Mirv, that one should be already fixed by the current SRU no?
<TheMuso> c/
<Mirv> seb128: no, the saucy SRU is 20131024 and seems to miss that, while 20131029 got uploaded to trusty with it
<seb128> Mirv, ok, is that an issue?
<Mirv> seb128: the bug should be SRUfied, not a problem otherwise
<seb128> Mirv, ok, good ... do you guys do that? ;-)
<seb128> the SRU is mostly "check that reports stop on e.u.c"
<Mirv> seb128: ok, doing the beautifying before cyphermox published it
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<cyphermox> what?
<Mirv> cyphermox: applying SRU rules to the bug reports of hud you're about to publish
<cyphermox> I wasn't about to touch hud
<Mirv> cyphermox: done
<cyphermox> ok you did?
<Mirv> cyphermox: aha, you mentioned "ok" previously so I wasn't sure, but I can publish it now too since everything's ready.
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> perfect
<Mirv> cyphermox: I did the bug beatifying, publishing next
<Mirv> ah, or not, of course it's not in indicators stack so it hasn't had a rebuild. building and seeing how the tests go.
<Mirv> seb128: hud now in saucy unapproved queue
<seb128> Mirv, great, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-01
<seb128> happyaron, did you look at that ibus issue?
<desrt> m_conley_away: hey.  around?
<desrt> chrisccoulson: i doubt you're around...
<tkamppeter> larsu, hi
<tkamppeter> larsu, hi, can you have a look at https://bugs.linuxfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1170, a patch to make the banner pages i18nable.
<ubot2> bugs.linuxfoundation.org bug 1170 in cups-filters "bannertopdf : banner template as PDF form" [Normal,New]
<robru> kenvandine, time for a quick review? https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/friends/decrease-polling-frequency/+merge/193642
<kenvandine> robru, done
<robru> kenvandine, thanks!
<robru> kenvandine, oh, forgot to ask: with that schema change, do we need to do some kind of migration for existing users? or do people who previously had the default value automatically get upgraded to the new default value?
<kenvandine> robru, automatic
<robru> kenvandine, slick, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-02
<Laney> attente: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hiMfys5MIc
<ochosi> hi bregma
<bregma> what up?
<ochosi> thanks for packaging and uploading light-locker!
<ochosi> (i'm one of the devs/maintainers)
<bregma> wicked
<ochosi> we're about to release 1.1.0, which introduces a new feature that ubuntu might be interested in
<ochosi> it locks the screen based on the timeout of X11's screensaver
<ochosi> (so whatever you set with "xset s $time" + a configurable delay)
<bregma> I think we're already using that featurre in gnome-session-deamon for unity
<ochosi> just to give you a heads-up
<ochosi> bregma: what would be nice though were if lightdm supported keeping the screen blanked on this timed-locking action
<bregma> I believe lightdm comes up with the unlock screen in reaction to logind sending the Unlock() signal over DBus (I could be wrong, but I believe that's the signal), so it would be tricky
<ochosi> yeah, a new signal would have to be created i guess, or an additional parameter that light-locker emits in this case
<ochosi> it would definitely ease the visual pain of the vt-switching though :)
<ochosi> bregma: anyway, maybe we can talk to robert_ancell and see what he says, gotta go hit the sack now
<bregma> nighty night
<ochosi> night!
<ochosi> oh, and would nice if you could keep me updated when you guys decide whether it's going to be used by default (or not)
<ochosi> (might attract more translators too)
<ochosi> bregma: ^
<bregma> sure
<ochosi> ty
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-27
<zeroaccess> can someone assist me with udtc? I was running the command udtc android when I had a hardware failure and now when I try and run I receive an error.
 * mlankhorst waves
 * didrocks at CDG airport! Soon back home :)
<willcooke> grumble grumble jet lag
<didrocks> hey willcooke!
 * didrocks grumble grumble not enough sleep on plane :p
<willcooke> :D
<dpm> hi desktoppers, good morning, everyone got home allright?
<didrocks> dpm: not fully home yet, I'm in CDG. Boarding to Lyon is about to start (so should be home by 2PM)
<didrocks> how about you?
<didrocks> I'm only half-home because they at least speak French :p
<dpm> :)
<didrocks> dpm: how was your flight back home?
<dpm> didrocks, had an uneventful trip, so all good. Managed to do some sightseeing in Georgetown in the afternoon on Sunday before leaving, that was good
<didrocks> dpm: oh nice!
<darkxst> whats with all the grumbly desktoper's ;)
<didrocks> darkxst: heh, most of them are still travelling (like I) :)
<didrocks> either because of long flight, or leaving yesterday
<didrocks> argh, delayed boarding :(
<didrocks> weather in CDG is crap, I didn't even see the track before we touched it when landing, was quite surprisingâ¦
<willcooke> hi mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> heya
<willcooke> mlankhorst, welcome back :)  I've got a load of admin work to get through today, but I'll set up a meeting for us some time this week
<willcooke> mlankhorst, in the meantime if there is anything you need just let me know
<darkxst> I see
<didrocks> ok, commit pushed, inbox 0, boarding in progress. Talk to you later guys!
<willcooke> l8r didrocks
<didrocks> good luck with the admin part :)
<darkxst> hey seb128
<darkxst> was wondering if you are ok with keeping gnome-icon-theme for the ubuntu delta
<darkxst> that way we can just sync adwaita-icon-theme for 3.14
<darkxst> (there are probably a couple of icons that will need to be copied across but nothing major)
<Laney> 'for the ubuntu delta' = ?
<Laney> we need to get that into main as a build-dep of some stuff anyway
<mlankhorst> willcooke: sure
<seb128> hey desktopers!
<seb128> @g-i-t, what Laney asked
<meetingology> seb128: Error: "g-i-t," is not a valid command.
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> Laney, btw, saw bug #1386057
<ubot5> bug 1386057 in evince (Ubuntu) "Merge evince 3.14.1-1 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386057
<seb128> did you start on that?
<Laney> I commented on the erroneous sync request
<Laney> but no I didnt' review the merge
<Laney> I have PP ctomorrow afternoon so just assign it to me
<darkxst> Laney, gnome-icon-theme is split out into two packages, one with icons missing from humanity and the other with everything else
<pitti> Good afternoon
<desrt> pitti: hi!
<desrt> home safe?
<pitti> hey desrt
<pitti> desrt: not quite, currently in Munich main station
<desrt> DB still acting up?
<pitti> desrt: nope, working well :) ICE is just starting
<desrt> nice
<pitti> so I'll be home in about an hour
<pitti> the flight was quite well, I even slept for 4 h or so
<pitti> and I still had an awesome day in DC yesterday
<desrt> :)
<desrt> glad to hear
<desrt> didrocks: hey :)
<didrocks> hello again the Internet! :)
<didrocks> hey desrt ;)
<didrocks> uneventful travel?
<desrt> totally
<desrt> the most interesting thing that happened is that just as we were about to take off they stopped everything and said "uh... it seems that we're missing a lot of bags.  we're going to try to get that sorted."
<pitti> salut didrocks ! as-tu rentrer d'accord ?
<desrt> and 15 minutes later we were off
<pitti> rentrÃ©
<didrocks> desrt: with uncertainty that your bag is in? :)
<desrt> i got a shiny TSA sticker on my bag
<desrt> maybe that's why it was delayed?
<didrocks> pitti: trÃ¨s bien! aucun problÃ¨me. Attendu un peu longtemps Ã  Paris (d'oÃ¹ mes messages sur IRC ce matin ^), mais c'est tout! :)
<pitti> didrocks: as-tu recevoir ta baggage cette fois ? :-)
<didrocks> desrt: all YOUR fault! :)
<didrocks> pitti: hÃ©hÃ© oui! Je vais pouvoir faire de la lessive ;)
<didrocks> pitti: et toi, tout s'est bien passÃ© ?
<desrt> pitti: they never forget your bag on the way home -- that's too easy to cope with :)
<pitti> didrocks: oui; je suis dans le dernier train Ã  Augsburg maintenant
<didrocks> desrt: wrong, happened to me once! :)
<didrocks> desrt: didn't need to even wait on the first luggage to arrive, everything was already prepared and they called me
<pitti> desrt: I've never forgotten mine in any direction :)
<didrocks> and 3 hours later, got it at home :)
<didrocks> was a NICE service :)
<desrt> this happened to me as well, in canary islands
<didrocks> pitti: ah, bientÃ´t rentrÃ© donc !
<desrt> i think they've gotten quite used to madrid losing people's bags there :)
<didrocks> desrt: direct flight or connecting?
<didrocks> ahah, madrid
<didrocks> yeah :)
<desrt> they called a long list of names so there was a line, but it wasn't too bad
<pitti> didrocks: pas de problÃ¨me -- Deutsche Bahn est jamais en grÃ¨ve :-P
<didrocks> pitti: contrairement Ã  Lufthansa ? :p
<didrocks> desrt: urgh, was better for me, it was only me, so I was even able to catchup an earlier train than if I had to wait for my luggage :/
<desrt> so does anyone know where i download the sdk source from?
<pitti> wow, this is a brand new train with apparently brand new internet, too
<desrt> i want to figure out what's inside the guts of ubuntu::connectivity::NetworkingStatus
<desrt> pitti: i hear the brand new internet is really boring.  nobody is on it yet.
<desrt> stick with us on the old one :)
<pitti> but it's really fast!
<pitti> well, for starters, you guys are in it
<didrocks> pitti: desrt didn't say we were not boring :p
<desrt> didrocks: do you know where the sdk source is?
<didrocks> desrt: I was going to point you to the qml one, then, I see you want the platform-api or qtubuntu one
<didrocks> desrt: I'm looking which one of both contains the connectivity part, one sec
<desrt> i'm looking for this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/networkingstatus/revision/1369
<didrocks> hum, connectivity-qt1 doesn't seem in the ubuntu namespace though
<didrocks> but yeah, seems it's that one
<didrocks> let me find the source so that you don't need to apt-get source as you can't ;)
<desrt> i have a vm :)
<didrocks> oh, an utopic one?
<desrt> ya
<didrocks> so, just apt-get source libconnectivity-qt1-dev
<desrt> thx
<didrocks> yw!
<didrocks> Ubuntu Connectivity Qt API
<willcooke> ogra_, did that strange apt issue I saw last week get sorted out in the end?  The one Laney spoke to you about?  Do I need to do anything?
<didrocks> desrt: ok, so we didn't mark the package name in the ubuntu namespace, but it's ubuntu specific
<ogra_> willcooke, didnt get solved yet (none of these packages should even be installed on a desktop) i will work out an SRU this week for the dependency issue at least
<willcooke> ogra_, thanks
<desrt> didrocks: ya.. this is what confused me
<desrt> looks like we have a separate dbus service already that looks at NetworkManager and republishes a new interface com.ubuntu.connectivity1
<desrt> party.
<didrocks> desrt: from another package, do you have the filename of the service file?
<didrocks> desrt: breakfast party? ;)
<desrt> i'm guessing /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/com.ubuntu.connectivity1.service
<didrocks> nope
<didrocks> or rtm-specific only
<desrt> was just a guess :)
<desrt> ya... seems to be on the phone only
<didrocks> yeah, but if things would be logicalâ¦ :)
<didrocks> without the 1 eitherâ¦
<desrt> huh
<desrt> seems to be coming from the network menu UI?
<didrocks> hum? You are starting to scare me :)
<desrt> remove the system- part from that filename?
<didrocks> I only used the filename, still poking at http://packages.ubuntu.com/ + dlocate
<desrt> it's not too important
<didrocks> the easiest would to have a krylin device so dpkg -S the file
<desrt> this will indeed reduce the amount of code running in the dash
<desrt> so that's an improvement
<desrt> too bad it comes at the cost of more code in another process
<desrt> but that code is already there, so meh :)
<didrocks> you are going to use this dbus service? (even if it's owned by the network menu UI?)
<desrt> i'm not sure that it is
<desrt> i only found a bug about the API that was filed against network menu
<xnox> well one can chroot into krylin device image, if one first puts qemu static into it.
<didrocks> there is no service in the libconnectivity* package source
<desrt> xnox: hey!  how's your new world treating you?
<didrocks> hey xnox :)
<xnox> hola, hola.
<xnox> desrt: good good. finally sorted out irc proxies to stay connected to all worlds at the same time.
<desrt> didrocks: anyway.. i stopped caring :)
<desrt> this does indeed seem to be better
<didrocks> desrt: found nothing on the Internet
<didrocks> let's use the ogra's hammer still :)
<didrocks> ogra_: mind grepping for "connectivity" in /usr/share/dbus-1/*/* ?
<didrocks> on your krylin device?
 * desrt finds himself wanting a device for the first time
<pitti> yay, in Augsburg; see you later
<didrocks> pitti: see you! :)
<ogra_> didrocks, sorry, i just did a brandnew bootstrap flash
<didrocks> ogra_: that's good right? you will be able to grep on your new flashy installation ;)
<ochosi> larsu: hey, since i talked to you last about gtkheaderbars and default apps, i was wondering about two things
<ochosi> first, why is simplescan using a headerbar? (or is it not installed by default in ubuntu?)
<ochosi> and second, i've noticed some corruption in evince, likely caused by the headerbar->toolbar patch. have you ever seen that? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-10-27-124835.php
<ochosi> (anyone else being in the knowing feel free to reply ^ )
<willcooke> ochosi, larsu is off this week.  Perhaps desrt might be able to advise?
<ochosi> ah, thanks willcooke!
<ochosi> good to know
<ochosi> what i probably haven't clarified is that i'm asking sorta "on behalf of xubuntu", so i've no idea what these things look like in unity (probably they're just fine, dunno)
<desrt> ochosi: not really familiar with these issues, sorry :(
<ochosi> desrt: no worries, i can wait until larsu is back
<mhall119> halp! I upgraded to 14.10 last night, now mediascanner-service-2.0 is accessing my (spinning metal) disk constantly
<mhall119> I kill it only to have it respawn and continue it's assault
<stgraber> mhall119: just remove it? as far as I can tell by looking around here, you shouldn't have it on a desktop install
<mhall119> stgraber: maybe remnants from some early touch related PPAs
<mhall119> hmmmm, removing it wants to also remove ubuntu-sdk*
<stgraber> bah, who needs that :)
<mhall119> anyway I can kill this without uninstalling the SDK?
<ogra_> stgraber, it also comes with desktop-next ... people having that installed alongside will see a lot of unwanted services atm ... we need to clean the seeds
<ogra_> or make these services start conditionally
<didrocks> mhall119: do you have a ~/Video directory? I heard that mediascanner2 reintroduce the bug that mediascanner1 had (like, defaulting to indexing ~ if ~/Videos or whatever your XDG paths point to doesn't exist)
<mhall119> didrocks: yes I have ~/Videos/
<mhall119> but it only has 105 files,and it's been scanning for almost 2 hours
<didrocks> mhall119: and the music dir?
<mhall119> 1066 files
<didrocks> ok, dunno then, it shouldn't block you, you should ping jamesh
<tkamppeter> willcooke, hi
<tkamppeter> willcooke, IPP Everywhere SRU bug 1386241
<ubot5> bug 1386241 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu Trusty) "Add the full IPP Everywhere support from Utopic to Trusty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386241
<willcooke> tkamppeter, awesome!  Thanks
<willcooke> I'm outta here - tata
<Noskcaj> seb128, I've contacted gnome-system-monitor's upstream dev and he's going to have the patch done in the next month or two. Sorry for not checking for headerbar while testing
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-28
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<czajkowski> Salut
<seb128> hey czajkowski, how are you?
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> lut didrocks, bien dormi ?
<didrocks> seb128: bien dormi, et toi ?
<seb128> nickel
<seb128> 23h-7h
<czajkowski> seb128: good thanks you ?
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ©, 22h-9h30 ici :)
<seb128> czajkowski, good as well, thanks ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, tu devais avoir un dÃ©ficit ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: un tout petit peu :p
<seb128> moi bizarrement je le sens pas ce coup-ci
<seb128> j'ai pas trop abusÃ© pendant la semaine il faut dire
<didrocks> et tu as sÃ»rement dormi dans l'avionâ¦
<willcooke> o/
 * willcooke <- MEGA YAWN
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> didrocks, en fait pas trop
 * seb128 switches to english
<seb128> didrocks, the flight was a bit short for sleeping
<didrocks> seb128: ah?
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> they served meal 1.5 hours in
<seb128> and woke us up 1.5 hours before landing
<seb128> so it's like 3 hours "night"
<seb128> even if you manage to sleep
<didrocks> yeah
<mvo_> seb128: just a 6h flight? woah
<seb128> mvo_, 6h50
<mvo_> mine was 7:30, slow jet I guess :P
<mvo_> seb128: did you fly FRA?
<seb128> mvo_, we are a bit ahead on schedule, it was supposed to be like 7h
<seb128> mvo_, no, ams
<mvo_> aha, ok
<mvo_> nice
<seb128> which is a bit closer
<seb128> anyway, same logic
<seb128> even on 7h30, they serve meal 1h30 in
<mvo_> :)
<seb128> time to eat, you are over 2 hours in
<seb128> and if they wake you up almost 2 hours before landing
<mvo_> right
<seb128> you have some 3 hours to sleep
<mvo_> I still find it impressive that you manage to sleep pretty much all of these 3h :)
<seb128> :-)
<mvo_> and good morning didrocks and willcooke
<didrocks> good morning mvo_
<willcooke> hi!
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> Really struggling to get out of bed this morning
<willcooke> sigh - my Summit login is still broken
 * ogra_ cuddles his espresso machine 
<Laney> yo
<willcooke> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> how's it going
<didrocks> Laney: did you catch your flight? They called you right after we left :)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it was before the time my boarding pass showed
<Laney> so i don't know why they were getting stressed
<Laney> weird
<didrocks> so you were this special "I'm last entering the plane" :)
<didrocks> hum, neck creating pain againâ¦ Starting to get my head blocked into this weird positionâ¦
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<czajkowski> didrocks: got any warm heating pads or a hot water bottle, very useful to help pain ease off
<didrocks> czajkowski: no, just using a towel with hot water, but I have to renew it quite often
<czajkowski> didrocks: something like http://url.ie/w7n1  if you cna pick it up will help a lot
<didrocks> czajkowski: thanks for the link, looking if I can find something similar here :)
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> didrocks: or deep heat spray/gel , personally i love the smell of the stuff, it's not everyones cup of tea
<didrocks> ahah, it's like you enjoy have the neck stuck then ;)
<Laney> hey seb128, doing good thanks
<Laney> managed to last until 10pm last night
<seb128> nice
<czajkowski> didrocks: I've a dodgey back so use many many options
<mozzarella> guys help
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to update/merge rhythmbox if you didn't start on that yet
 * didrocks waits for the current tests to finish to see why the eclipse test is failing on the datacenterâ¦
<didrocks> pass wonderfully here :/
<willcooke> didrocks, did you have to get a proxy set up in the end?
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, and this is working really well now :)
<didrocks> but before the release, I want to have 100% of tests passing of course, and the new one with eclipse don't pass on the vms, not sure why. So once the machine is frozen, I'll take a terminal + ssh and debug it like real man (meaning: manually) ;)
<willcooke> :D
<didrocks> I wonder if eatmydata interferes
<Laney> seb128: didn't, go for it
<seb128> cool
<seb128> willcooke, btw, meeting today? with dst, do we shift by one hour or stay on constant utc timeÂ§?
<willcooke> seb128, I'd say we leave it at the same fixed UTC time, but I'm easy.  Do you have a preference?
<seb128> not really, I think that's what we agreed on at the previous dst change
<seb128> didrocks or Laney can probably confirm ^ ?
<Laney> think so
<Laney> it's easier to do that
<didrocks> yeah, it's what we do generally
<willcooke> keep it the same UTC time?
<Laney> ye
<didrocks> keeping it
<willcooke> hummm.  Now I'm confused, I think GCal has moved it
<willcooke> so it should be 1630 UTC today?
<willcooke> no, it should be 1530 UTC, because it used to be at 1630 in summer time, right?
<willcooke> O_o
<willcooke> DOES NOT COMPUTE
<didrocks> yeah, gcal has shifted it one hour earlier, resulting at the same time here (local time)
<didrocks> it depends who created it I think, and so, it follows so that it stays at the same time one your local time
<didrocks> on*
<willcooke> do it should be 1530 UTC?
<willcooke> *so
<willcooke> no, sorry - 1730
<Laney> it is 1530
<seb128> willcooke, 1530 utc
<seb128> that's one hour early local time now
<willcooke> MATHS!
<Laney> use the google hax and put it at 15:30 iceland time
<seb128> si was 4:30pm for uk and is 3:30 now
<Laney> then everyone should get it at the right time if you invite them
<willcooke> Iceland hack FTW
<didrocks> ahah, the proxy wasn't enabled and eclipse isn't in the datacenter whitelist! \o/
<didrocks> willcooke: yep, right time (one hour earlier) for me :)
<didrocks> oh no, 2 now
<didrocks> hum, weirdâ¦
<didrocks> the email had the right time
<didrocks> not my calendar
<didrocks> wth!
<didrocks> right timezone in my gcal though
<didrocks> seb128: same for you? the email was telling 16:30 and it starts at 15:30 in your gcal?
<seb128> didrocks, let me check
 * seb128 still on washington tz
<willcooke> yeah, it's moved it to 1430 in my cal now
<seb128> didrocks, seems buggy yes
<seb128> gcal is a piece of c***
<Laney> SOFTWARE!
<didrocks> ok, so at least, we all see the same issue
<didrocks> which isâ¦ encouraging :)
<willcooke> Damn it - I move it, and sent the invite and I just watched it move itself back again
<willcooke> third time's the charm....
<seb128> google 0 - 3 tzs
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> I should just invite you to the event I already had in my calendar
<didrocks> it's weird that they didn't find a better way to display this. I'm sure that google is facing the same multizone issues internally
<willcooke> hum.  Now it's deleted the timezone...
<Laney> which was already correct
<Laney> :P
<seb128> Laney, asking to get more paperwork?! :-)
<Laney> noooooarghghg
<willcooke> didrocks, can you look in your gcal and see if it's correct now?
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, perfect!
<willcooke> ok
<didrocks> 16:30, so one hour earlier than now
<seb128> not for me
<didrocks> seb128: refresh
<didrocks> I had to refresh
<seb128> I see a 17:30 one in the UE calendar
<seb128> I refreshed
<didrocks> there is still the old one
<seb128> k
<didrocks> did you add the new one?
<seb128> so not perfect :p
<seb128> yes, I've both
<didrocks> yeah, now, removing the old one
<seb128> ideally the UE one needs to be updated or deleted
<seb128> I had 3 in fact
<seb128> 2 in my calendar
<didrocks> seb128: if you answered yes, it's copied in your calendar
<seb128> +1 in UE
<didrocks> not sure it can be remotely removed
<seb128> goooogggllle
 * willcooke fixes the UE one 
<seb128> grrr
<seb128> that's the same thing that bite my in washington
<Laney> then there's the fridge.ubuntu.com one
<Laney> :)
<didrocks> well, normally, you would update the old one
<seb128> why don't they delete events you accepted if the event got deleted
<seb128> like they keep a copy in your calendar
<seb128> even if the "master" has been removed
<willcooke> lulz - now I look to next week and it's moved to 1430
<didrocks> yeah, dunno, if the creator deletes it, would make sense to remove from everyone
<seb128> which means you have buggy ghost events
<didrocks> willcooke: confirmed :/
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> willcooke: did you choose to update all events of the series?
<seb128> today's one is wrong now as well?
<seb128> I see it for 15:30
<didrocks> seb128: not for me though
<didrocks> oh indeed
<didrocks> just refreshed
<didrocks> and back to 15:30
<Laney> hahaha
<willcooke> DAMMMMMMMMMMM YOOOUUUUUUUUUUUU
<Laney> HAHAHA
<willcooke> ok, screw this
<Laney> good times were had by all
 * willcooke deletes the whole thing
<Laney> look at the one on my calendar, that seems to be right for me
<didrocks> Laney: because the meetings have been removed? :)
<didrocks> willcooke: good time for me now
<seb128> seems like you got it
<Laney> :D
 * willcooke cries in the corner
<willcooke> YOU WEREN'T THERE MAN, YOU WEREN'T THERE
<didrocks> willcooke: doing the same with all non EU 1o1 now? :)
<willcooke> no chance.  I'm not touching anything for at least a week now
<willcooke> let the US catch up again
<didrocks> heh
<willcooke> we should stop doing this moving the clocks around stuff now.  I dont think it helps anyone any more
<didrocks> 1.34â¬ is the estimated yearly money saved due to that for an average family in France
<didrocks> so yeahâ¦ :)
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> the company just lost that amount in time spent having problems due to it :P
<didrocks> I would say they lose even moreâ¦
<ogra_> just move to russia ...
<ogra_> always winter there now
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> in soviet russia gcal doesn't confuse people!
<willcooke> \o/
<ogra_> except it would be called vkontakte-cal there :)
<seb128> lunch time, bbiab
<didrocks> willcooke: btw, confirmed:
<didrocks> "If you have a recurring meeting that spans across different time zones, then its time always remains constant for the organizer, and will shift for guests whenever their time difference with the organizer changes. Thatâs why if youâre in London and attending a weekly meeting that was created by your New York colleagues at 10am NY time, it will always be at 10am for NY, almost always at 3pm for
<didrocks> you, but at 2pm during that particular week in early November."
<willcooke> ahha!
<desrt> good morning peeps
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> seb128: hi!
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> glad everyone is safely home except larsu
<didrocks> seb128: hey, IIRC, we didn't update to a bluez 5* because of phone, do you remember the reasons? (and IIRC, you told that we can unblock that on vivid?)
<seb128> didrocks, context? who is asking/where/why?
<seb128> but not really "because of phone", rather the other way around, that transition impacts all desktops and kde and others were not migrated yet
<seb128> there was also n-m regressions, like using phone as a modem was not working
<didrocks> seb128: "was", like, newer releases got fixed?
<seb128> those things are mostly resolved though, I discussed it a bit with cyphermox in Washington, we are looking at updating this cycle
<seb128> didrocks, there is ongoing work
<seb128> needs some pulseaudio update as well
<didrocks> yeah, that's why I was pinging you, because I heard about your conversation
<seb128> didrocks, do you need the update for something?
<seb128> or just simple curiosity?
<didrocks> seb128: the MAP and other protocols to have better phone <-> desktop interactions
<didrocks> only in bluez 5
<seb128> summary "we are looking at it, detailed steps are not well defined yet"
<seb128> ah ok
<didrocks> most of the protocol is broken today btw
<seb128> the phone team wants bluez5 for low energy profiles
<didrocks> like sending a file to android 4.4 is always failing
<didrocks> yeah, that as well
<seb128> in bluez4, or 5, or both?
<desrt> data point: bluez5 on fedora is not what i would call nice
<didrocks> bluez4 for now
<desrt> it's pretty unreliable
<seb128> desrt, :-(
<didrocks> desrt: just unreliability or have other impacts, like feature-wise?
<seb128> didrocks, 5 is working? do you know how much work it would be to fix 4?
<desrt> could just be the GNOME UI for it...
<desrt> i think they removed a couple of features too
<didrocks> seb128: well, I'm unsure how to test 5 for now
<desrt> no more obex browsing, for example
<didrocks> seb128: but yeah, 2 years of releases, to backporting all the changes don't seem to be an option
<seb128> didrocks, well, not "all", but maybe android 4.4 is a 10 lines patch somewhere
<didrocks> seb128: you mean the "send a file one?"
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it might just be a bug
<didrocks> it doesn't seem to worth it though, most of people would use other protocols, not bluetooth
<didrocks> volume up and down are failing as well, but it's only exposed on dbus
<didrocks> and apart from having notification sound of phone (but not phone call), this is the only feature that we enabled on ubuntu
<seb128> didrocks, I guess you could try on a fedora live image to see how things work with bluez5
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, nice idea, let's do this
<didrocks> not sure if bluetooth is working well on a vm
<didrocks> we'll see
<seb128> well, you can use an usb stick and reboot in worth case
<didrocks> yeah, it's just lazyness to not reboot, reconnect IRC and so on :)
<didrocks> desrt: fedora 20 or 21?
<didrocks> let's try 21 anyway
<didrocks> now that they have a ahemâ¦ close release date :)
<desrt> 21
<desrt> it's pretty stable lately
<didrocks> apart from bluez support? :)
<desrt> to be honest it may have been crap before and i just never noticed
<desrt> this is the first time i've been using a bluetooth PAN device (my new phone) to get online with my laptop
 * desrt was doing the DUN thing with bluez4 
<desrt> oh -- that's another thing
<didrocks> well, it doesn't seem to be reliable even on the few features we have on bluez4â¦
<desrt> DUN support is gone in bluez5
<desrt> gnome continues to support DUN via bluez4, which is slightly hilarious considering that gnome hard-depends on bluez5 and the two versions are not parallel installable
<didrocks> yeah, I guess most users are using wifi through the device now
<didrocks> "nice"
<desrt> great way to waste lots of power :(
<didrocks> not sure for USB though, what it's using
<didrocks> is it only DUN? or there is another protocol?
 * didrocks googles
<desrt> USB for phones?  just a virtual usb network interface, no?
<didrocks> can be, so this can workaround the DUN need
 * didrocks looks for a cable to confirm
<desrt> unless you own an N9...
<didrocks> oh right ;)
<desrt> fwiw, i don't think bluez5 went in totally a bad direction here
<ogra_> didrocks, it is called rndis for usb
<didrocks> an very limited *elite* set of users :)
<desrt> i don't think that it's been possible to buy a DUN-but-not-PAN-supporting phone for the past several years
<didrocks> ogra_: ah, the microsoft thingy
<ogra_> nah
<ogra_> heh
<seb128> tiheum, hey, not sure you saw my followup the other day, what icon name would you recommend using for settings-battery? we need one currently installed, not one from a vcs changeset that didn't land yet
<seb128> desrt, btw, is the "gtkpopup don't display if there is a menubar" bug yours now? (I think larsu said it was something for you to look at)
<desrt> oh.  right.
<desrt> i said i'd look at that today :)
<desrt> (*ahem* got a link?)
<seb128> great
<seb128> desrt, bug #1383486
<ubot5> bug 1383486 in evince (Ubuntu) "menu to select zoom doesn't drop down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1383486
<desrt> thx!
<desrt> seb128: this bug sounds very serious!
<seb128> desrt, http://paste.debian.net/128595/ is the testcase larsu gave on irc on friday for you to try on fedora
<desrt> no fun... i already had my VM out :p
<seb128> desrt, well, it's annoying but I don't know what other apps in impact, in the evince case you can zoom in/out with other means
<seb128> lol
<desrt> works on fedora in any case
<seb128> :-(
<desrt> i guess the test is for if the popover comes out or not?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it doesn't show when the menubar is displayed, on Ubuntu
<seb128> but it does when the menubar is stripped out
<seb128> e.g under unity
<desrt> right
<seb128> or gnome-shell
<desrt> it's working for me under unity as well
<seb128> well
 * desrt replaces xsettings
<seb128> if you unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<seb128> or change the xsettings
<seb128> then it stops displaying
 * desrt gets an impressively strange compiz bug
<desrt> actually i have no idea what just happened
<seb128> describe it?
<desrt> a chunk of my commandline in gnome-terminal was just replaced by spaces
<desrt> -after- i typed it
<seb128> weird
<didrocks> no bluetooth adapter found. Guess, it's going to be time for an usb stick
<desrt> like gsettings set ..... '{" tk S ellS o sMenubar":<0>," ...
<desrt> at first i thought it was a display issue
<desrt> but it seems to actually be real spaces
<desrt> _very_ strange
<desrt> anyway.... i do indeed get the issue with the menubar present
<desrt> i suspect the theme
<desrt> i think the popover is really opening but we can't see it
<desrt> the reason is because if you click the zoom thing and then use the mouse wheel on the area where you would expect the popover to be, it doesn't work
<seb128> why would the theme behave differently when the menubar is on screen?
<desrt> but if you click away, scrolling works again
<desrt> anyway... works in high contrast theme and default gtk theme, so if it's a theme issue then it's not our theme that's the problem, but rather !adwaita
<desrt> and by 'works' i mean 'still broken'
<desrt> also not o-s
<seb128> I started wondering
<seb128> right, it happens to xubuntu
<seb128> which doesn't use o-s
<seb128> nor our theme
<desrt> so we have a nice gtk patch somewhere i guess....
<seb128> :-/
<desrt> i'm trying an upstream tarball build minus patches
<seb128> desrt, or it's fixed in gtk > 3.12
<desrt> of the same version
<desrt> 3.12.2
<seb128> k
<desrt> fails with upstream gtk too
<desrt> party time
<GunnarHj> happyaron: On my vivid install, im-config sets GTK_IM_MODULE to "xim" and not "ibus". Can that be correct?
<desrt> seb128: good news and bad news -- fails with gtk 3.12.2 under fedora as well
<desrt> so the good news is that it's not one of our patches
<desrt> the bad news is that it's not one of our patches
 * desrt has a lot of bisecting to do :(
<didrocks> nice, fedora doesn't start on my netbook :/
<jpds> didrocks: Why's fedora on your netbook?
<didrocks> jpds: wanted to try the bluez 5 stack
<willcooke> blimey, is it Wikipedia fund raising time again already?
<desrt> willcooke: s/already/still/ ?
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I don't mind giving them a few quid, I think they do a good job.  My life would be more difficult without it
<willcooke> Plus I get a kick out of killing off minor celerities
<desrt> your contribution to removing jimmy wales' face from the internet?
<willcooke> I am but one man
<Laney> howdy desrt
<desrt> Laney: hihi
<desrt> Laney: safe and sound?
<Laney> all present and correct
<Laney> a380 is quite nice
<desrt> top or bottom?
<Laney> top
<desrt> fancy pants
<Laney> could be the Â£Â£Â£ that I paid for the upgrade
<desrt> willcooke: reminds me of a question i had ... ;)
<Laney> I got the 'being paged to the gate' experiene
<willcooke> Laney, ha!! awesome
<Laney> due to the mobile boarding pass having a different idea of the boarding time to the gate staff ...
<willcooke> The lady at check in told me not to bother with the mobile pass, she said the security people wouldn't like it
<willcooke> works fine in the UK but not in the US
<willcooke> who'd a thought it
<Laney> yeah, then I was stubborn and tried it at security anyway
<Laney> they didn't care
<Laney> fancy that
<willcooke> :)
<desrt> the US likes scribbling random stuff on your boarding card entirely too much to go mobile
<willcooke> yeah, what the heck was that about?
<desrt> they tried scribbling on people's phones, but there were complaints...
<willcooke> His job just seems to be: does photo match face?
<willcooke> if yes -> draw a picture
<willcooke> if no -> cavity search
<desrt> seb128: bisecting turns up https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736205
<ubot5> Gnome bug 736205 in Widget: GtkPopover "GtkMenuButton with popover breaks with GtkApplicationWindow's built-in menubar" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<desrt> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=a1af365566161067c4eb246a1c66e7914f119537
<qengho> willcooke: Wikipedia has subscriptions now. Recurring nag or recurring donation.
<desrt> it doesn't apply cleanly on 3.12.2... i'll try to backport it
<willcooke> qengho, I seem to get the nag about once every 11 months
<willcooke> (based on email from them)
<willcooke> okey dokey
<willcooke> I /think/ it's weekly meeting time
<Sweetshark> time is relative
<Sweetshark> <= (physics major here)
<willcooke> meeting times doubly so
<ogra_> not in russia !
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-10-28#
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 28 15:31:50 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<willcooke> #chair willcooke
<meetingology> Current chairs: willcooke
<willcooke> Roll call:
<willcooke> (a lot of people are on holiday or otherwise travelling)
<willcooke> maybe attente_, desrt, didrocks, FJKong, Laney, qengho, seb128, sweetshark, tkamppeter,
<willcooke> Let's start with desrt?
<willcooke> #topic desrt
<desrt> hi
<desrt> i attended a sprint
<desrt> uh... i also did a lot of bug chasing, i guess
<desrt> just found an issue with popovers vs. menubars in gtk 3.12 which is impacting us -- found the upstream fix(es) and am in process of backporting them
<willcooke> do you want to say anything about Mir support landing in Gtk?
<desrt> also fixed some stuff last weeek like this weird hang in the dash because of qtdbus doing too much locking
<desrt> oh.  mir support landed in gtk upstream :)
<willcooke> \o/
<desrt> this way future gtk shifts won't require us to rebase our stuff
<willcooke> congratulations to all, great work
<desrt> mostly my brain is still unscrambling from 2.5 weeks of travel :)
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<desrt> one more note:
<willcooke> It was great to finally catch up with you last week
<desrt> i just pushed the gtk changes to the gtk-3-12 branch (seconds ago)
<desrt> so next gtk stable release will have them, but we can take them as vendor patches until then
<desrt> willcooke: you too :)
<willcooke> let's move on to didrocks
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> * Prepared next UDTC release, bug and test fixes. Merging new framework supports (blog post tomorrow): Eclipse (from a contributor) and Eclipse ADT
<didrocks> * Getting other frameworks in shape for next (next) UDTC release: stencyl and looking at Go support (not entirely done yet)
<didrocks> * Attended to a sprint
<didrocks> * Started to look at MAP support
<didrocks> EOF
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> I'm going to skip FJKong because he might not be around, let's come back if he is
<willcooke> #topic Laney
<willcooke> Laney, over to you
<Laney> â¢ Sprint
<Laney> â Chats about 15.10, 16.04 and stuff
<Laney> â Work on merges for v-cycle
<Laney> â Help with final push to release
<Laney> â Make PPA for gi-multiarch work, sync packages into it
<Laney> â¢ Work on fixing build failures in the gi PPA
<Laney> â¢ Some merges
<Laney> â¢ Push a couple of small-ish transitions: libinput libgit2
<Laney> â
<seb128> desrt, thanks for gtk backporting!
<desrt> seb128: you'll need the two tip commits on gtk-3-12... one won't apply without the other
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<seb128> desrt, k,
<willcooke> #topic qengho
<willcooke> qengho, you're up
<qengho> in-progress: fixing a webapps-caused settings bug in Cr 38.
<qengho> in-progress: pulling contemporary Clang back to precise to get chromium-browser build-deps satisfied again. Will try to release TUV without P for now, and release P's when it's possible.
<qengho> todo: release adobe-flash to parters repo.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho.  I'd like to get Chromium in to the desktop next image when we can, but prioritise as appropriate
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<willcooke> seb128, you're up
<seb128> - was at a sprint
<seb128> - started working on merges with Debian and updates for vivid
<seb128> - some u-s-s reviews
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> Thanks seb128, and thank you for all your support last week
<seb128> (some utopic SRUs as well)
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> triaged evince & rb bugs
<Laney> I SAW YOU
<willcooke> #topic Sweetshark
<willcooke> Sweetshark, over to you
<Sweetshark> * prepared 3.5.7/precise update and staged it at https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-3-5
<Sweetshark> * prepared 4.2.7/trusty update and staged it at https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-4-2
<seb128> Laney, yeah ;-)
<Sweetshark> * prepared 4.3.3/utopic update and staged it at https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-4-3 and https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Sweetshark> * all the above should be SRUed at soonish unless they show issues during staging (so far no issues reported)
<Sweetshark> * prepared debian/rules cleanup to Debian at: https://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2014/10/msg00082.html
<Sweetshark> ** somewhat a litmus test: If Debian doesnt take this, I wont bother with trying to improve stuff there anymore unless essential, as doing this as a Delta vs. Debian creates as more work as the cleanup of packaging solves => will rather focus on fixing stuff directly upstream then
<Sweetshark> ** so far just an indecisive "will sleep over it" feedback on IRC, no reply on the Debian list, patch is not commited to Debian branch
<Sweetshark> * attended SeaGL in Seattle on Saturday and LibreFest on Sunday morning -- excellent turnout for the US at the latter: https://plus.google.com/events/c0t94hkc4retbq13jr5bc193tno
<Sweetshark> ** did some firefighting/leadership for upstream employees
<Sweetshark> * some coordination to get good speakers for the "open IT summit" in Hamburg (discussion of a "Microsoft exit strategy for Hamburg" included) https://twitter.com/search?q=oitg14
<Sweetshark> * attended devices sprint, met lots of cool people
<Sweetshark> * still not in posession of a helicopter
<Sweetshark> EOF
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> thanks Sweetshark
<desrt> won't someone GET THIS MAN A HELICOPTER!
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
<willcooke> tkamppeter, over to you.
<tkamppeter> I wanted to attend a sprint, but someone wanted me not to do so, so I did:
<tkamppeter> - Backported IPP Everywhere (driverless printing) support from Utopic into Trusty LTS, mainly changes in cups-filters but also in system-config-printer and cups (hardware enablement SRU bug #1386241).
<tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Updated to 1.5.3 in Vivid to include automatic installation of smbclient package if needed and for additional fixes of Python3  transition bugs.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Additional patches for printing multiple copies on PDF printers applied.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<ubot5> bug 1386241 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu Trusty) "Add the full IPP Everywhere support from Utopic to Trusty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386241
<willcooke> Sorry we didnt get to arrange the meeting with Design, I will fill you in on what happened during our 1:1 this week.
<tkamppeter> willcooke, OK, I hope my lawyer will find the "sonmeone"soon ...
<willcooke> tkamppeter, I hope so too!
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
<willcooke> * Went to a sprint
<desrt>  
<willcooke> I'll be creating Blueprints etc this week
<tkamppeter> So that I do not need to illegally enter with Sweetshark's helicopter ...
<willcooke> Got some write ups to do first
<desrt> tkamppeter: it's talk like that that gets you blacklisted ;)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
<willcooke> Besides attending the sprint, I've spent quite some time on sponsoring
<willcooke> uploads for the upcoming Debian freeze, and played around libxml2's
<willcooke> security updates.
<willcooke> #topic AOB
<willcooke> Any other business?
<qengho> So glad we're using Blueprints.
<willcooke> Oh, the UOS is coming up
<willcooke> We can expect some sessions around 16.04 convergence desktop
<willcooke> Do we need to have a desktop track?
<seb128> no
<seb128> we don't have enough topic for a full track
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> imho
<qengho> willcooke: define "UOS", please?
<seb128> a few sessions would be nice
<seb128> qengho, UDS online
<willcooke> that
<seb128> or vUDS
<seb128> or whatever you prefer to call those weeks packed with hangout sessions ;-)
<willcooke> I think the official term is still Ubuntu Online Summit
<seb128> yeah
<willcooke> mhall119, ^^^^^ ?
<seb128> because they merged UDS and some other online events iirc
<willcooke> right
<didrocks> the user-oriented one
<willcooke> ok, then I think we are done for the week
<willcooke> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 15:49:51 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-10-28-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<didrocks> thanks!
<qengho> mhall119 is like 40km from me, but I only ever see him online.
<didrocks> (nice that we have a bot now :))
<FJKong> willcooke: I am here
<FJKong> willcooke: for my turn?
<seb128> thanks
<FJKong> attend the sprint
<FJKong> discuss with unity-api and unity-maintainance team about scope developing
<FJKong> meeting with will seb aron bregma mainly talk about pinyin searching in dash, this is a nice feature especially for ubuntu-kylin
<FJKong> track a bug of also, fixed
<FJKong> not much
<willcooke> thanks FJKong, sorry I missed you in the main meeting
<willcooke> FJKong, was great to see you last week.
<FJKong> willcooke: no problem, lol
<seb128> thanks FJKong
<seb128> FJKong, did you have a good trip back?
<FJKong> seb128: 13 hours flight, just a little bit tired
<seb128> k
<FJKong> seb128: good to see you guys
<seb128> FJKong, it was good to see you as well!
<seb128> kenvandine, do we have a rtm vcs for settings now? do we really need that?
<kenvandine> we do and yes we need it :)
<kenvandine> so we can cherry pick fixes
<seb128> kenvandine, can't we just keep working on rtm fixes only for a while?
<kenvandine> seb128, i don't want to hold up feature landings
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> so we should target everything to trunk
<seb128> and somebody handle backports?
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> k
<mhall119> willcooke: yes, Ubuntu Online Summit
<mhall119> qengho: where are you based? Tampa or Orlando?
<Laney> man, it's grey and dark
 * Laney enlamps
<seb128> Laney, saw https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/libwnck/drop-gir/+merge/239674 ?
<Laney> no
<qengho> mhall119: MCO
<seb128> Laney, can you push you gtk update to the vcs?
<seb128> Laney, you have the change but it's still on unreleased, so I guess you forgot to push 1 commit
<Laney> yep done
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> Ryan Lorties!
<mhall119> qengho: nice! We've been talking about having a release party in that area, are you subscribed to the Florida team mailing list?
<qengho> mhall119: I don't think so.
<mhall119> qengho: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-florida
<mhall119> ML is at the bottom
<Laney> all relevant packages rebuilt, time to sync gi
<Laney> exciting
<qengho> mhall119: Most recent message appears to be From: Michael, 2010-07-06
<Laney> oh, huh, pitti already did ...
<pitti> Laney: I got a request for that this morning and it seemed fine to me; was that premature?
<Laney> pitti: The MA transition causes a load of build failures
<Laney> luckily I fixed those all today :-)
<pitti> Laney: oops, thanks; so Debian already did that then?
<Laney> yeah I did this there with mbiebl and some others
<pitti> I thought merely moving the files and adjusting dh_girepository ought to suffice?
<Laney> it's mainly fixing .install files
<seb128> Laney, shrug :p
<seb128> kenvandine, reviewed your no_more_check and let some small needfixing
<seb128> Laney, cyphermox replied to you on https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1346483/+merge/239230 ... should we +1 it, or do you prefer to have it constant and change it in the futur if needed?
<Laney> he told me he was going to change that
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> why did we start having failing tests on settings?
<seb128> like https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-deb-autopilot-runner-mako/5870/?
<Laney> seb128: can we replace vala-0.24 with vala-0.26?
<Laney> we got it by an autosync but it went to universe
<seb128> Laney, sure
<cyphermox> I thought I had already pushed the change
<cyphermox> I'll get to it in a bit, off to lunch for now
<Laney> ah, push it, push it good
<seb128> kenvandine, why did you resubmit?
<kenvandine> the prereq branch
<mhall119> qengho: ah, sorry, we're actually on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-fl/
<Laney> finally it's time
<Laney> to
<Laney> CLIMB!
<Laney> laters hot potaters
<didrocks> enjoy Laney
 * willcooke scrolls to the top of his inbox and realises why he hasn't been seeing much email this afternoon
<willcooke> quitting time
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-29
<mlankhorst> morning!
<desrt> mlankhorst: hihi
<desrt> seb128: confused about the popover bug.  canhas SRU?
<desrt> seb128: (and good morning to you too) :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> desrt, hey!
<seb128> desrt, confused about what? and yeah, sure
<desrt> seb128: just surprised to see it pushed to vivid
<seb128> desrt, I did an upload to vivid yesterday, going to SRU today
<desrt> gotcha.
<seb128> desrt, well, SRU rules are it should be fixed in the current serie before being SRUed
<desrt> til.
<desrt> sort of makes sense i guess -- more testing that way
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, desrt, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1372847/comments/5 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1372847 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] New stable release 2.40.1" [Undecided,Fix released]
<desrt> the theory here being that a glib change modifies the behaviour of the firewall process in such a way that it fails to properly configure the kernel firewall rules?
<desrt> sounds ugly indeed
<seb128> desrt, did you read about such issues before?
<desrt> seb128: no
<mlankhorst> hey
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<didrocks> morning!
 * didrocks just spent an hour on fedora to look at what is supported client-wise in bluez5
<didrocks> sad that my other laptop doesn't have bluetooth support, would be easier
<desrt> the read-didrocks-on-irc-with-a-didrocks-accent effect is always stronger immediataely after sprints
<desrt> didrocks: good morning :)
<didrocks> desrt: urgh, don't tell me that you suffer from jetlag :)
<desrt> seems that i do...
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, how is bluez5 on fedora working?
<didrocks> seb128: quite nicely, better than bluez4 on ubuntu at least (the connection seems to be way more stable)
<didrocks> contacts syncing works
<didrocks> network doesn't though (not sure if it's the phone that doesn't support it)
<didrocks> sound redirection works on both sides
<didrocks> however, sending a file fails the same
<didrocks> so, don't know if this can be from the phone
<didrocks> but for the hour, I got one disconnection on bluetooth side, and can reconnect immediately
<seb128> contact syncing? is that done by gnome-contacts?
<didrocks> it was a lot of clicking to reconnect on bluez4
<seb128> do they show in tb?
<didrocks> yep, gnome-contacts, through folks
<seb128> how do you etablish "the connection" and how do you use?
<didrocks> didn't try it, not sure tb is using folks
<seb128> just curious what feature you tried exactly
<seb128> playing music from the phone on the laptop speakers?
<didrocks> well, tried with g-c-c, for pairing
<didrocks> yeah, playing multimedia from phone -> laptop speakers
<didrocks> doesn't seem the other options of bluez5/obex are used though
<didrocks> I'll try to reboot at some point to poke directly the dbus interface
<seb128> the "play sound on the pc from the phone over bt" works fine for me on utopic
<didrocks> 09:22:52   didrocks | sound redirection works on both sides
<didrocks> that's what I told
<seb128> oh, I though you mean computer->phone and phone->computer
<seb128> on bluez5 on fedora
<didrocks> no, I was comparing both
<seb128> k
<seb128> so what is not working for you on utopic and working on fedora?
<didrocks> contact syncing as a visible feature
<didrocks> and MAP support is only working on bluez5
<seb128> k
<didrocks> so, if we want to implement MAPâ¦
<seb128> yeah, we need to update to bluez5 anyway
<didrocks> at least, nothing that was working in utopic is broken in fedora
<seb128> I was more wondering if they are basic features non working that we should look at fixing in the LTS
<didrocks> and the connection, to my experience is more stable
<seb128> I'm testing to see how that goes
<seb128> started deezer on the phone
<seb128> I'm going to keep that for the morning see how stable it is for me
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I didn't keep playing a music, it's more when my phone was idle
<seb128> didrocks, where is the ui for contacts syncing on fedora?
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-contacts, then, it does it under the hood
<didrocks> you will see a notification on your phone telling that device "â¦" is wanting to fetch your contacts
<seb128> k, I don't see the ui element in Ubuntu, not sure if that's our version or a missing build option
<didrocks> and just accept it
<seb128> k
<didrocks> yeah, I suspect we don't have the ui parts in touch
<seb128> didrocks, sending a file to my s3mini works fine
<seb128> so I guess that's phone dependant
<didrocks> can be due to my phone yep
 * mvo radiates hate^Wstrong-disapproval towards automake
<seb128> try cmake? ;-)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> maybe its not sooooooo bad afterall ;)
<seb128> indeed :-)
<mvo> seb128: still, it give me a headache, configure wants to run autoheader/automake again in the dpkg ubuntu merge but not in the debian version. and all that changed is a bunch of C/perl files nothing that a looks at all configure releated
<seb128> yeah, timestamps issues are annoying
<seb128> it probably detects that some file changed after the configure and decide to run the machinery
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I guess and I have a hard time figure the magic out :/
<seb128> sorry I can't help you there, don't know much of magic tricks, out of trying to figure out what other files you need to "touch" to have it not doing that
 * mvo nods
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I guess for some stuff there is no magic wand :)
<mvo> (except find . -type f |xargs touch :-D
<mvo> or rm -rf
<pitti> mvo: well, if C files changed and they contain automake macros, automake does need to run again?
<mvo> pitti: hm, what puzzles me is that this did not happen with the previous dpkg merge which had the same files changed
<pitti> mvo: and configure.ac doesn't refer to those files?
<pitti> black magic then indeed :/
<mvo> pitti: no, I think its really just a timestamp mismatch
<mvo> pitti: but thanks for the hint :)
<Laney> yo
<pitti> it's a Laney! how are you?
<seb128> hey Laney, how was climbing?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hey pitti seb128 didrocks
<Laney> going alright, climbing was s-wwweeeeeeeeeettt
<Laney> although they still haven't changed the set I've been doing >:(
<seb128> did you feel the week without training?
<Laney> it was a short session ...
<Laney> have you tennised yet?
<seb128> no, starting next monday
<seb128> there was an issue with the teacher this week so they moved it to next week
<seb128> looking forward that ;-)
<xnox> ohhh tenis. I miss that.
<seb128> xnox, do you play tennis?
<xnox> seb128: i used to play for about 7 years, a long time ago.
<xnox> (compete and stuff)
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I started a year ago
<seb128> the recent rtm updates made a real difference on battery usage in idle, nice!
<seb128> krillin discharged less than 30% between yesterday 8pm and this morning
<seb128> with the device connected, not in flight mode or anything
<willcooke> woo
<willcooke> mine didnt die over night either
<ogra_> yeah, the new power savings are incredible
<ogra_> (the new stability not so much though :/ )
<Laney> ubuntu phone charges YOU
<ogra_> haha
<mvo> pitti: want to have a quick look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/8730791/ ? the second part of the patch that truncates /etc/machine-id on a live-image is probably interessting once we go systemd as it needs to be generated on install or we need to ensure its using the dbus machine-id if /etc/machine-id is found empty
<pitti> mvo: oh, why truncate instead of removing?
<pitti> mvo: I think I'd rather fix systemd to regenerate it on boot if it doesn't find it; that's also in line with upstream's efforts of allowing boot with an empty /etc/ (and chances are that it's already fixed in recent versions)
<pitti> mvo: but either way, thanks for fixing this!
<davmor2> seb128: does wake up take longer for you after that fix though?
<seb128> davmor2, not sure, it takes less than a second
<seb128> so if it was 0.1s and is 0.3s my eyes are not good enough to tell the difference
<mvo> pitti: systemd explodes if its missing (at least currently)
<davmor2> seb128: :)
<mvo> pitti: I'm all for re-generating, the behavior right now is that it generates a new one in memory if its empty
<pitti> mvo: "in memory"? i. e. it doesn't write it back to /etc/machine-id?
<mvo> pitti: but let me check 215, I only tested on 208
<mvo> pitti: I don't think so, but my data is outdated (208)
<pitti> mvo: confirmed, rm /etc/machine-id and reboot breaks
<mvo> pitti: aha, nice, ok. do you want me to file a upstream bugreport?
<seb128> davmor2, how slow is it for you?
<pitti> mvo: an ubuntu one for now should be fine
<pitti> mvo: I'm happy to look into this and then send a patch upstream if it's not fixed in 217
<mvo> thanks!
<pitti> mvo: or it coudl just be a debian packaging issue; it definitively worked in Lennart's demo with empty /etc/
<pitti> mvo: so I guess it's a relatively simple fix
<mvo> right
<mvo> pitti: bug #1387090 - most boring text evar
<mvo> :)
<ubot5> bug 1387090 in systemd (Ubuntu) "boot breaks if /etc/machine-id iis missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387090
<pitti> mvo: heh, yes (FWIW, empty /etc is not currenlty a goal of our's, but I know what you mean)
<mvo> pitti: right
<pitti> description updated
<mvo> ups, midair collision :/
<mvo> pitti: sorry, I was removing it the same second you mentioned it, please update again, I will stay away from it this time
<pitti> mvo: ah, your's is fine, I essentially said the same thing
<mvo> ok
<pitti> mvo: a truncated /etc/machine-id causes it to be regenerated, but then it's different from /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
<pitti> so this is a bit awkward
<pitti> anyway, we have the bug now to track it
<mvo> pitti: I submited a change to freedesktop so that the dbus unit run dbus-uuidgen --ensure - so that there is a valid /var/lib/dbus/machine-id if there is a empty /var. but thinking about it it sounds like its too late, isn't it? i.e. systemd will at least for this session have a different one, iirc it syncs the dbus one if it finds a valid there
<mvo> pitti: but I may be wrong and its only /etc/machine-id -> /var/lib/dbus/machine-id and not the other way around
<mvo> pitti: so on your system systemd is not using the data from /var/lib/dbus/machine-id if /etc/machine-id is empty?
<pitti> I think the one in /var/ could be a symlink to /etc/m-i, but I need to look into the details of that
 * mvo nods
<pitti> mvo: systemd-machine-id-setup copies dbus' one in /var if it exists, yes
<mvo> ok
<xnox> pitti: i thought the way of the future was to have everything empty, generate /etc/machine-id on first boot, and then sync it to the dbus one.
<pitti> xnox: right
<xnox> or even making dbus use /etc/machine-id.
<mvo> yeah, I thnk this would make most sense, simply check both locations in dbus
<xnox> pitti: i think we want an upstart job to run systemd-machine-id-setup
<xnox> or switch to systemd by default....
<xnox> (or e.g. have installers set it up - ubiquity & d-i)
<pitti> so systemd calls machine_id_setup() during init, so in principle it's supposed to work; it just seems to be buggy somehow, I'll get to that
<pitti> (as soon as I bent adb and powerd-cli to my will, which are annoying
<willcooke> seb128, tkamppeter is asking about systemd - do you know when we switch from upstart?  Is it the 15.04 cycle?
<pitti> willcooke: I hear infinity is planning that, but it pretty much depends on how much participation we get from server/cloud/etc. to migrate our ~ 200 upstart jobs
<willcooke> tkamppeter, ^^^
<willcooke> thanks pitti
<seb128> willcooke, what pitti said
<willcooke> presumably phone uses upstart right now, and that probably wont change any time soon
<seb128> is the question in context of some work that needs to happen?
<seb128> or feature needed?
<willcooke> from tkamppeter role as a maintainer, he wants to get a head start on porting upstart scripts
<seb128> great
<seb128> that can be done any time
<seb128> the porting needs to happen before we migrate anyway
<willcooke> good point
<pitti> right, and systemd works fine on a desktop in utopic
<pitti> so e. g. cups can and should be ported indeed
<pitti> preferably with socket activation
<pitti> Fedora does that, so if it isn't upstream yet, it's a simple patch stealing
<pitti> oh wait, I looked into the wrong file
<pitti> s/file/package/
<popey> willcooke: yes, phone uses upstart, and may continue to do so, depending on who you ask, and when
<pitti> cups is already systemd-ified
<pitti> calling "lpstat" correctly triggers cupsd, so socket activation works nicely
<seb128> willcooke, looking to the work planning, is the "work on things demo-able" something that all teams should do? or some experiment you want to try?
<seb128> it feels like most of what we are doing is not easy to "demo"
<willcooke> seb128, having something to demo is a core principal of Scrum.
<willcooke> and yes, the most difficult part is demoing "code improvements"
<willcooke> or Work In Progress
<willcooke> because there isn't anything to see
<willcooke> you can hack your way around it
<seb128> or "maintenance"
<willcooke> indeed
<seb128> like it's not easy to demo stability
<seb128> or segfault fixes
<willcooke> you can take a couple of approaches
<seb128> out of "here it's how it runs without segfault, before it segfaulted once a week"
<willcooke> as part of the descr. of the work, you could state a way in which to reproduce the bug, and then use that as the acceptance criteria - If I do X,Y,Z it doesnt crash anymore
<willcooke> and demo that
<willcooke> In my experience, demos are usually very short
<willcooke> "It used to crash here, and now it doesnt"
<willcooke> and you can whizz through 1 a minute
<willcooke> OR
<willcooke> we just agree that we will demo what we can and not demo other things
<willcooke> Another core principal of Scrum is that we all provide feedback at the end of the "sprint" (scrum sprint, not Canonisprint)
<willcooke> about how the process can be improved
<willcooke> so for e.g.
<willcooke> "I think that we could have demo'd that code better by doing XYZ"
<seb128> that process seems more adapted for dev teams
<willcooke> so in time we reach a mutually agreed state in which we just know what is expected to be demoed and what is not
<willcooke> yes - it's dev focused
<willcooke> there are probably nice bits we can borrow
<willcooke> and then fit around the blueprints in LP
<seb128> I guess we can try and see what fits and what doesn't make sense
<willcooke> I think job #1 is "Start using Blueprints again"
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> so let's do that and then we can perhaps fit some demos in to the weekly meetings as and when we have something to demo?
<willcooke> e.g.
<seb128> sounds good to me
<seb128> knowing than some people in the team are probably not going to have a lot to "demo"
<willcooke> tkamppeter back ports IPP to 14.04 - let's see it in action via a hangout or something
<seb128> though I guess "run new version of libreoffice or chromium" can be demos
<willcooke> yeah, perhaps a quick run through of the improvements/new features
<willcooke> this should be interesting to the community as well, see the results of our work as they are done, rather than discovering them on release day
<willcooke> ok, so we're agreed that the next steps are:
<willcooke> 1) Populate Blueprints and break down work items in LP
<willcooke> 2) If someone has something to demo, the weekly meeting might be a good place to do it (with notice, so we can get a hangout set up etc)
<willcooke> 3) iterate the process as we go make improvements where we see a need
<willcooke> 4) profit
<seb128> wfm
<willcooke> Laney, didrocks, tkamppeter, anyone ^^^^
<seb128> do you expect each team member to file blueprints for the things they plan to work on?
<willcooke> I'll create the BPs from the stuff we agreed in DC
 * didrocks needs to backlog, one sec
<willcooke> but then the person who owns the work should break it down in to smaller chunks I think
<willcooke> (I'm happy to help with the breakdown)
<willcooke> If there are any other BPs needed, people can add them as needed
<seb128> ok, that makes sense
<willcooke> we should agree a regular review process for the priority of the BPs - weekly 1:1s seem like a good time for that
<seb128> thanks for filling the bps
<willcooke> yw!
<seb128> then unsure if we need some for e.g libreoffice or chromium "normal maintenance work"
<willcooke> yeah, agreed - I don't think "normal maint" needs a BP
<seb128> great
<willcooke> cool - that was easy
<willcooke> if anyone has any concerns or questions, let me know
<didrocks> yeah, +1 on starting using BP again and ramping up from that
<willcooke> I've got to get a doc finished for rickspencer3 today, so I will try and get the BPs done Thursday
<willcooke> I'm off on Friday
<willcooke> if that fails, I'll do it early next week
<seb128> on that note, need to go for lunch, meeting someone outside today
<seb128> be back in ~1.5h
<willcooke> cheers seb128
<Laney> a friend
<seb128> see you
<seb128> Laney, ;-)
<Laney> hf!
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> blueprints> yes, for defined pieces of work
<Laney> mvo: do you care about software-properties by any chance?
<mvo> Laney: a bit
<mvo> Laney: why?
<Laney> a couple of items in the sponsor queue
<didrocks> mvo: it was a trap! :)
<didrocks> well done Laney ;)
<Laney> only because I suck at python :P
<Laney> nah, I just don't know this codebase very well so asked the guy who might do :-)
<mvo> after lunch :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, willcooke, seb128: systemd support is completely implemented in the Debian package of CUPS, and actively supported by the Debian folks, so to switch over we need only to do simple configuration changes in the Ubuntu package (or with the packages being synced, change the systemd/Upstart conditional Debian/Ubuntu to desktop/phone.
<pitti> tkamppeter: what would we need to change? it should work just fine as it is now?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I mean, cups seems to start up on demand as it should (I'm running systemd 215 on vivid, also worked on 208 in utopic)
<tkamppeter> pitti, so the package uses whatever process 1 is? The package does not need to know at build time which process 1 will be used? That would be great.
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, that would be just wrong; it should (and does) ship a sysvinit script, an upstart job, and the systemd units
<pitti> tkamppeter: so the running init system will pick the correct ones, and the others are just being ignored
<pitti> tkamppeter: if you have utopic or vivid, just boot with "init=/bin/systemd" or install systemd-sysv, then you can test
<tkamppeter> pitti, and it at least contgains the Upstart and systemd scripts AFAIK.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, cups is fine
<pitti> tkamppeter: and yay socket activation! :-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, cups-browsed, too?
<pitti> tkamppeter: that also looks fine, yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, great, so OdyX did very well.
<pitti> tkamppeter: and cups isn't running by default for me under systemd (I have no printer), and calling "lpstat" or similar activates it
<tkamppeter> pitti, great, Linux again getting better for old low-memory or for battery-driven systems!
<pitti> tkamppeter: and faster boot, too
<pitti> tkamppeter: cups-browsed starts during boot, but I think that's intended to pick up avahi requests
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, together with SSD, our systems will soon boot again as fast as the 8-bit boxes in former times.
<pitti> hehe
<pitti> $ systemd-analyze
<pitti> Startup finished in 1.046s (kernel) + 4.989s (userspace) = 6.036s
<pitti> not too bad, yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, if the computer does not hang in the BIOS for ages ...
<pitti> tkamppeter: bios is about 1.5 s on my thinkpad x230
<pitti> well, UEFI, but whatever
<tkamppeter> pitti, does our phone also boot that fast? I know that iOS and Android take really long to boot.
<pitti> tkamppeter: certainly not; android takes maybe 1.5 mins (haven't measured it), ubuntu phone is faster (maybe 45 s, but also haven't measured)
<tkamppeter> pitti, if a phone would boot in something like 5 seconds one could implement a wake-on-GSM and one is reachable with the phone turned off, so that if one has no chance to charge the battery for several days one has some kind of emergency mode ...
<pitti> didrocks: FYI, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-ubuntu-developer-tools-center/3/?
<pitti> didrocks: I ran it twice, it fails consistently all 4 times
<didrocks> pitti: would you export any proxy info by any chance?
 * didrocks sees squid.internal
<pitti> didrocks: yes; by your request, FTR :)
<pitti> didrocks: but this worked in 0.0.5, do you know what changed?
<didrocks> pitti: 0.0.5 didn't support proxy yet :)
<pitti> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-ubuntu-developer-tools-center/ARCH=i386,label=adt/2/ ran two days ago
<didrocks> now, it does
<didrocks> and so, it seems it can't find http://autopkgtest.localdomain
<pitti> didrocks: ooh!
<pitti> didrocks: I think I need to add that to $no_proxy?
<didrocks> (there is a local server I'm running as part of my tests)
<pitti> didrocks: so far that only has localhost,127.0.0.1, and similar
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I think it makes sense :)
<pitti> *.localdomain
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> to be really "local" :)
<didrocks> yeah, confirming, all failures is about this
<pitti> didrocks: pinged you as we still have notifications turned off, for the first crazy flood; it settled down now, though
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I didn't notice as it was accepted to the release, thanks for the ping :)
<didrocks> pitti: btw, you see the tests twice because there is another assert in TearDown() (ensuring that we don't show any uncontrolled errors or warnings)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, I'll check locally if fixing no_proxy works, and if so roll that out
<didrocks> excellent, keep me posted!
<didrocks> and so, the tearDown thingy caught the 2014-10-29 10:41:43,118 [udtc.network.download_center] ERROR: http://autopkgtest.localdomain:9876/android-studio-fake.tgz couldn't finish download: Can't download (504): Gateway Time-out
<didrocks> for instance
<pitti> yup
<pitti> didrocks: ok, that works
<didrocks> pitti: great! thanks for looking :)
<pitti> didrocks: et c'est vert Ã  nouveau \o/
<didrocks> pitti: j'aime le vert! :)
<pitti> moi aussi ! c'est la plus belle coleur !
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© !
<mterry> Sweetshark, FYI, bug 1386991 -- it mentions that LibreOffice also uses an embedded copy of libmspack
<ubot5> bug 1386991 in libmspack (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmspack" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386991
<Sweetshark> mterry: yes, got a ping about that. Im not quite sure what that is referring to ...
<mterry> Sweetshark, oh heh.  OK  :)
<mterry> Sweetshark, libmspack sounds like something that processes microsoft files, but didn't look into it
<Sweetshark> mterry: yes, IIRC its something to create ms cabinet files. Some deeper digging shows it was used in openoffice at some point in time, but we seems to have removed that crap.
<Sweetshark> mterry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmspack/+bug/1386991/comments/3 <- commented on bug
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1386991 in libmspack (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmspack" [Medium,Fix released]
<mterry> Sweetshark, cool
<didrocks> http://www.webupd8.org/2014/10/ubuntu-developer-tools-center-01.html \o/
<seb128> didrocks, nice!
<willcooke> that was fast!
<willcooke> great work didrocks
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<didrocks> willcooke: blog post published a couple of hours ago + g+ post
<didrocks> so yeah, quite timely picked up by the press :)
<Laney> seb128: anything left for vala promotion / removal?
<seb128> Laney, let me have a look
<Laney> cheers
<seb128> Laney, seems good to me, thanks for dealing with that!
<Laney> kind of took care of itself since we dropped the versioned stuff last cycle and synced up with debian
<Laney> \o/
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> Laney, are you looking at the libinput transition?
<Laney> yep, will finish post lunch
<seb128> great, enjoy lunch!
 * Laney goes
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<seb128>  dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/libfcitx-utils0_1%3a4.2.
<seb128> 8.5-3_i386.deb (--unpack):
<seb128>   trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfcitx-utils.so.0.1', which is also in package fcitx-libs:i386 1:4.2.8.5-1
<seb128>  
<seb128> happyaron, known issue?
<Saviq> willcooke, tkamppeter, I replied to your email, maybe we should set up a hangout sometime soon?
<Saviq> so that we can confirm the way forward
<willcooke> Saviq, saw thanks. Do you need to get involved?  I dont want to drag you away from more important things
<Saviq> willcooke, not necessary, as long as you get tvoss, but again, I'm highly opinionated on the matter so might as well be there at least to start with ;)
<willcooke> Saviq, :) Ok!
<Saviq> as in I WANT MY PRINTING FIXEDED
<willcooke> printing on an envelope makes me want to cry
<czajkowski> willcooke: people still do that ?
<mdeslaur> czajkowski: I assume it's for a movie prop
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> I can print a pre-paid envelope so that I don't have to go and buy a stamp
<willcooke> but it would have been easier to cut down a tree, make some paper, invent the ball point pen, invent ink, write on the paper, form a postal service, employee a post man, employee someone to build a post box, walk to the post box and put my letter in it
<willcooke> that to print on an envelope
<willcooke> this is entirely the fault of my printer however, and not tkamppeter  :)
<willcooke> it seems to say "yummmy! tasty tasty envelopes omnomnom"
<mdeslaur> willcooke: oh, there's usually a pickup roller adjustment that you need to fiddle with if it's the first time you use an envelope
<willcooke> it seems 28th time was the charm
<didrocks> Laney: seb128: do we have a vivid (and vibrant!) unity8 desktop image ready for download?
<Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/ ?
<didrocks> nice! anyone tried to run one based on vivid already?
<Laney> doubt it
<didrocks> hum, guinea pig time then!
 * didrocks feeds his disk
<Laney> blarg
<Laney> clutter breaks mutter
<Laney> MAN those rhyme, how did I never notice before
<Laney> darkxst: plan on updating mutter & co to 3.14?
<willcooke> didrocks, qtcreator starts :)
<didrocks> willcooke: \o/ we'll still need to poke a little bit to ensure there is not an hidden thingy making some X calls
<didrocks> but this is a good start :)
<willcooke> didrocks, sure - but this is an encouraging start
<willcooke> there are a few alignment issues
<willcooke> and, well, it doesnt work
<didrocks> yep! :)
<didrocks> ah?
<didrocks> like because of multi-windows?
<willcooke> I expect so
<willcooke> it's a start anyway
<didrocks> yep
<willcooke> qengho, you good for the 1:1 in 10 mins?
<didrocks> I'll have a look + some greps
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> yw
<qengho> willcooke: hi hi.
<willcooke> qengho, yo!  Are you free for 1:1 now?
<qengho> willcooke: sure am.
<willcooke> right on
 * willcooke joins
 * willcooke spoke too soon
<willcooke> there we go
<qengho> willcooke: I'm having camera trouble. One minute.
<willcooke> same
<willcooke> czajkowski, ping?
<Laney> darkxst: We rolled back clutter and mutter to unstick the archive, see #-release
<czajkowski> willcooke: pong
<czajkowski> willcooke: sup?
<willcooke> czajkowski, hey! As a normal person, can you help me?  I'd like to know whats in your most recently use applications in the dash.  Can you send me a screenshot, or just a list, or indeed nothing at all, whatever is ok with you
<seb128> "as a normal person"
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> sure
 * xnox was giggling at that as well
<czajkowski> seb128: xnox oi you two!
<seb128> I guess that's supposed to be "as a non geek"
<seb128> but I'm unsure czajkowski qualify
<seb128> she's probably have a bias on her application use as well
<czajkowski> dont judge me on my shows!
<seb128> e.g not a standard "home user, webbrowser/photo/music" user
<Laney> "upload pictures of dog to g+"
<seb128> lol
<Laney> :)
<willcooke> czajkowski, feel free to blank anything out you dont want to share
<seb128> yeah, I'm still unsure about that
<willcooke> I wont judge
<seb128> why sharing dog pictures when cats are clearly the cutest ones?
<willcooke> seb128, WRONG
<czajkowski> seb128: eh no you've cleary never seen poor BAsh
<czajkowski> willcooke: email
<willcooke> thanks czajkowski
<xnox> seb128: because czajkowski prefers to share a morphed cat-dog pictures instead.
<xnox> http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wolf-penguin.jpg
<xnox> this is the new tux logo ^
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> any other normals who want to help out as well, please feel free to send me a list of the 20 or so things listed in the dash main screen
<czajkowski> hmm I may have watched a lot of movies recently
<czajkowski> damn dash is making me feel guilty
<willcooke> czajkowski, excellent - seems my guess is actually fairly accurate
<czajkowski> also viber on the desktop works a treat on utopic :)
<willcooke> did you get to the bottom of that weird icon issue?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> willcooke: you can even see it on the screen shot
<czajkowski> I think it's because the app is opened and that's that little icon
<czajkowski> no biggie just very confusing
<willcooke> oh yeah
<willcooke> maybe it's keeping a small window in focus all the time
<willcooke> stealing all your key strokes
<czajkowski> <--- Pub
<czajkowski> toodles
<willcooke> cya
<LocutusOfBorg1> is anybody planning to merge cairo from debian?
<seb128> LocutusOfBorg1, if you want to do it please do, otherwise I might have a look in some days
<seb128> have a good evening everyone
<Noskcaj> Would it be possible to sync upower 0.99.1 before the gtk 3.14 transition hits?
<Noskcaj> All packages are patched, they just need syncs/debdiffs
<Noskcaj> Also, should it be copied from a PPA (Which had everything ready and tested in utopic), or done in a series of debdiffs?
<Noskcaj> pitti, ^
<willcooke> hey jhernandez
<willcooke> oops sorry jhernandez I meant jhodapp
<jhodapp> howdy willcooke
<willcooke> good to see you here :)
<willcooke> hi robert_ancell too
<robert_ancell> hello
<willcooke> robert_ancell, how was the holiday?  Must be fun with mega jet lag
<willcooke> ;)
<robert_ancell> I just hit the ground running and skipped the jet lag :)
<willcooke> haha!
<willcooke> jhodapp, we should talk to seb128 tomorrow about media hub on the desktop - he's EOD now
<willcooke> which is where I am about to be, once I've done a bit more on this doc
<jhodapp> willcooke, sounds good!
<willcooke> robert_ancell, Gtk Mir support getting in upstream got a round of applause at the closing plenary
<willcooke> i.e you & desrt got a round of applause
<robert_ancell> nice work by desrt there
<robert_ancell> it is kind of funny it beat Qt to upstreaming :)
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> oh, here's a question you might be able to answer robert_ancell
<willcooke> I tried Qt Creator on Desktop Next today
<willcooke> it loads OK
<willcooke> but doesnt really do anything
<willcooke> I'm assuming this is the same window management requirements as we have in gtk
<willcooke> does that sound plausible?
<robert_ancell> Does it render any widgets?
<robert_ancell> I don't know exactly what support is in QtMir but as long as it's a single window and it doesn't hit a codepath that is unimplemented and critical I would expect it to mostly work
<willcooke> it does render some, but they're miss aligned
<willcooke> clicking on them does nothing, but it doesnt crash either
<willcooke> I'm assuming it's not a single window application
<robert_ancell> It seems to be single window to me. There must be something unimplemented
<willcooke> ah, kk
<willcooke> Didrocks is going to see what's going on
<willcooke> oh, this is fortunate
<willcooke> jpds -> robert_ancell -> jpds
<robert_ancell> jpds, hey, still online?
<jpds> robert_ancell: Loitering.
<robert_ancell> jpds, is email the best method for you for doing TPM handover?
<jpds> robert_ancell: I'll joint down my thoughts and makes some drawings of what we need tomorrow.
<robert_ancell> jpds, thanks
<willcooke> g'night all
<darkxst> Laney, I already uploaded a fixed mutter for clutter, we can't update them to 3.14 until gtk lands
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-30
<thumper> what ever happened to webapp integration with the sound menu?
<thumper> like spotify?
<didrocks> morning
<pitti> Noskcaj: if the version you branched off in the PPA is the same as in vivid, and you used distro-compatible version numbers, we can sync the sources; otherwise needs merges/uploads
<pitti> Noskcaj: upower synced; it'll stay in -proposed until the transition is done
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, did we decide to start the upower transition?
<pitti> seb128: well, it was started long ago, and Noskcaj has everything ready in his PPA? I don't see why not?
<pitti> and so does Debian
<seb128> pitti, not sure, we decided to not go for it before utopic because the xubuntu team was unhappy about it
<seb128> but I didn't follow the details/what problem it created for them
<seb128> I just know they reached to the release team to have the ffe refused
<pitti> seb128: the only long-time blocker was indicator-power, but Charles ported it recently
<seb128> oh well, it's a start of cycle, we can figure out the remaining bits
<pitti> yes, because it was too close to release indeed
<pitti> so let's not slip it again :)
<seb128> I'm just a bit worried about piling too many transitions at the same time in proposed
<seb128> because they interact and we end up with months of untangling before being able to get anything through then
<seb128> reading backlog
<seb128> Noskcaj, gtk "transition"? I do hope the new GTK is not ABI incompatible/doesn't require a transition
<pitti> seb128: well, as it stands the old upower makes things more complicated wrt. merging from Debian or updating to new upstream versions, so I think it's one of the first that we should do
<pitti> it's all ready, after all
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, some of the transitions are already in proposed by autosyncs
<seb128> so we don't get to decide to start or not those
<seb128> anyway, let's see how it goes
<seb128> reading backlog still
<seb128> didrocks, @qtcreator on unity8/mir, bregma had a look previous cycle and know what is not working iirc
<seb128> so maybe check with him first
<seb128> it might spare some work
<didrocks> seb128: oh sure, will do :)
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> didrocks, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/04/17/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t14:56
<didrocks> thx
<seb128> "bregma	hey tedg I'm trying to run Qt Creator in my Unity 8 Desktop Preview session but it apparent fails because its subprocesses are not allowed to connect or something, what's the best approach to analysing that problem"
 * didrocks opens
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, ^ btw, about qtcreator
<willcooke> ah, cool
<seb128> so it's rather a process management issue, if the problem is still the same one
<seb128> not a rendering one
<willcooke> hmmmm
<willcooke> that sounds complicated
<didrocks> yeah, seems that we depend on the API team :/
<didrocks> and they want to know if they implement that using upstart or systemd
<pitti> Noskcaj: you don't have distro compatible version numbers there (quite rightfully for a PPA), so that'll need uploads; also, several of the gnome-* are in bzr
<pitti> Noskcaj: also some merges with newer versions
<seb128> I've an appointment at 10, need to go, back a bit later (going to have some shifted hours in the evening to compensate)
<willcooke> seb128, catch you later
<Laney> morning
<Laney> darkxst: The problem was that new clutter-1.0 had Breaks on the current mutter
<Noskcaj> seb128, Just the random visual stuff that always breaks
<Noskcaj> pitti, That's the utopic stuff, i wasn't sure if i should re-do it in PPA.
<pitti> Noskcaj: nah, let's just upload it to vidid now
<pitti> vivid, too
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> I'll make a heap of MPs in the next few days then
<Noskcaj> need sleep for now though
<xnox> seb128: Laney: i think we need to discuss ssh/gpg agents for the default desktop. I'm getting complaints, after re-enabling gnome-keyring by default via SRU.
<Laney> hi xnox, got some time off? ;-)
<Laney> what are the complaints?
<Laney> I have swapped this problem out of my brain state I'm afraid
<xnox> Laney: gnome-keyring's ssh/gpg agents are subpar compared to openssh/gnupg agents.
<xnox> Laney: it can't handle eliptic curve keys, keys that are protected by a better encryption algorithms, smartcards, ssh certificates, etc.
<Laney> what happens without upstart?
<xnox> Laney: but, it's still the default via xdg autostart, and it's now default for ssh/gpg with upstart.
<xnox> in xdg autostart it's .desktop file per component (secrects, pkcs11, ssh, gpg), in upstart it's a single job.
<Laney> I guess before people could just untick it in the startup applications thing?
<Laney> or is it being non split the problem?
<xnox> yes. and the untick doesn't migrate to upstart job overrides.
<Laney> is it lack of UI?
<Laney> don't understand really
<xnox> and the upstart job is unsplit so one can't start pkcs11/secrets by gnome-keyring, without it also taking over ssh/gpg agents.
<xnox> and yeah, there is no UI for it.
<xnox> (and the xdg autostart override is not honored by the upstart job)
<Laney> upstart job parsing .desktop file? :)
<xnox> can the UI ticks/unticks be queried somehow? cause i think upstart job shouldn't run if it was disabled.
<xnox> and we should split gnome-keyring uptart job into 4 components - keyring, pkcs11, gpg, ssh - just like xdg autostart desktop files are split
<Laney> it puts a desktop file in .config/ somewhere with Hidden=true, so you could read that
<xnox> what about giving up on keyring's ssh & gpg agents all together?
<Laney> don't think so
<xnox> and only use gnome-keyring for secrets & pkcs11.
<xnox> cause it can unlock/save the ssh/gpg passwords, right?
<Laney> I guess I'm a simple ssh key user but it works well enough for me
<xnox> Laney: any idea what gnome-keyring's pkcs11 component does?
<Laney> smart card support isn't it?
<seb128> back
<seb128> Laney, hey, wie gehts?
<darkxst> Laney, ok, I didnt see that
<Laney> hey seb128, doing good thanks, went to a ska show last night :-o
<Laney> then got SOAKED on the way back
<seb128> "ska"?
<Laney> no waterproofs
 * seb128 googles and learn a new thing
<darkxst> Laney, but landing new clutter with current mutter is trivial
<seb128> Laney, better to get soaked on the way back than on the way there...
<Laney> darkxst: maybe, but it's better for you to do it than me
<Laney> I didn't know if you can have new mutter and old gnome-shell
<darkxst> Laney, no you can't do that
<Laney> so then you have to upgrade gnome-shell which requires gtk
<darkxst> but new clutter with old mutter will work
<Laney> if you drop the breaks?
<Laney> why are they there then?
<Laney> seb128: yep, but if it was raining when I left I would have taken the waterproof stuff :p
<Laney> some guy standing outside a pub laughed quite a lot at me
<darkxst> yes, for api/abi break, which there was a minor one
<darkxst> I suppose
<Laney> anyway, this can wait until next week to do it properly
<Laney> did we get a rebased mir patch for gtk 3.14 yet?
<darkxst> Laney, yes next week is fine
<darkxst> Laney,  I think we will need upower and maybe gnome-desktop before we can land gnome-shell 3.14 ;(
<Laney> upower is happening or going to happen
<pitti> darkxst: new upower is in -proposed, we need to upload Noskcaj's PPA changes now
<Laney> is g-desktop hard?
<pitti> Laney: ^
<Laney> cool
<pitti> we should do this quickly to reduce delta from debian and unblock other transitions
<seb128> Laney, I think larsu's vcs had that "rbeased", read it applies/build, unsure it works
<Laney> didn't when I looked
<Laney> maybe it does now?
<seb128> didn't work?
<seb128> where did you try? unity8 desktop?
<Laney> was disabled
<seb128> hum
<darkxst> Laney, I think gnome-desktop should be pretty straight forward this time
<Laney> yeah it is
<seb128> k, dunno then
<Laney> I thought desrt was doing it, might be wrong
<seb128> Lars said it applies/builds
<seb128> iirc
<seb128> but he's not here this week
<seb128> that can wait monday imho
<darkxst> I'm also working on gnome-session merge, which is a little tangled trying to revert old dialogs]
<Laney> darkxst: mitya57 / Alberts work upstream doesn't help?
<darkxst> Laney, how far have they got? it only helps if they stop using the gnome-session dialogs
<Laney> I thought that was the point
<seb128> "they"?
<seb128> is that gnome-panel?
<Laney> yep
<seb128> do we care about gnome-session sessions not using gnome-shell/unity/gnome-panel?
<seb128> is there any of those in use?
<Laney> does that exist?
<seb128> like running gnome with cairodock or something
<seb128> instead of panel
<seb128> dunno, that's what I'm asking
<darkxst> seb128, gnome-panel has its own dialogs, but they are not used for keyboard shortcuts, last time I checked
<Laney> I would check with thowe two
<seb128> bah, packages.ubuntu.com is buggy/incomplete
<Laney> before doing any complex reverts or whatever
<seb128> wasn't p.u.c able to look for packages containing a directory, like /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ ?
<darkxst> Laney, will do, I kind of stopped once I saw how tangled it was anyway
<seb128> happyaron, hey, did you see my fcitx error yesterday?
<seb128> happyaron, bug #1387382
<ubot5> bug 1387382 in fcitx (Ubuntu) "package libfcitx-config4 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libfcitx-config.so.4.1', which is also in package fcitx-libs:amd64 1:4.2.8.5-1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387382
<pitti> seb128, Laney, Noskcaj: starting to upload some upower transition bits now, if that's ok?
<pitti> (with merging/pushing to bzr, etc.)
<pitti> e. g. gnome-applets is now a fakesync
<Laney> fine by me
<Laney> thanks for helping!
<pitti> I'm doing -proposed cleanup today anyway, so I might just as well :)
<pitti> and this has been lingering far too long
<Laney> we planned to do it at the start of this cycle
<Laney> hey didrocks, CI train question ;-)
<Laney> if I have a branch with a tagged (uploaded) revision and another commit on top
<Laney> can CI train figure this out?
<Laney> i.e. will it notice the extra commit and let me upload it?
<pitti> darkxst, Noskcaj: gnome-session would need heavy backport patching for upower (in https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower/+packages); do you actually want to do this, or rather just update to 3.14?
<pitti> seb128, Laney: unity-control-center/settings-daemon are in a "magic" bzr; is this supposed to go through CI train, or normal commit/push?
<pitti> .../dput?
<Laney> pitti: ci train, but dput if you want, I don't mind
<pitti> and one makes up a new sensible version number?
<Laney> just commit/tag/push to the branch
<Laney> just ubuntu2 is fine
<pitti> 14.10.0+14.10.20140922 would be quite wrong, though
<pitti> (obvious how to bump, of course)
<Laney> I don't know how the upstream upstream part is generated
<Laney> but they're 1.0 so you can just edit the source
<didrocks> Laney: CI train will always take latest branch content
<didrocks> so yeah, it will notice this extra commit and let you upload it
<pitti> so I build the orig.tar.gz from everything except debian/, I suppose?
<Laney> pitti: just bzr bd -S should do it
<didrocks> yeah, it's in splitmode
<Laney> or you can drive the train if you want, all core-devs should have permission
 * willcooke . . o ( tickets please )
<didrocks> willcooke: on my original airplane vision, there are some tickets concepts :)
 * pitti hides in the toilet
<Laney> is there status and upgrades?
<Laney> and lost baggage?
<Laney> :P
<didrocks> pitti: no smoking please!
<willcooke> is there a white zone which is for the loading and unloading of passengers only?
<pitti> didrocks: je ne fume jamais !
<didrocks> Laney: well, now, I would implement business class at least ;)
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> that's called being a core-dev
 * Laney breezes right through all of the checks
<didrocks> heh
<pitti> Laney: oh, I see https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/upower0.99/+merge/230988 ; that never landed, is that broken, or needs an ack, or it was just forgotten?
<Laney> the last two
<darkxst> pitti, not entirely sure what what you are talking about gnome-session, but I will have g-s 3.14 ready soon enough
<pitti> darkxst: for the upower transition; applying the patches to 3.8 is a bit hackish IMHO
<pitti> darkxst: it's in the PPA, but I figure you'd rather want to upgrade to 3.14 anyway?
<darkxst> pitti, gnome-session is at 3.9.90ish in that archives no?
<pitti> darkxst: right, that's what I meant (not 3.8)
<pitti> Laney: oh sorry, unity-system-settings != unity-control-center :)
<Laney> ITYM ubuntu-system-settings
<darkxst> pitti, and yes we should just go with 3.14 straight up, if possible
<pitti> darkxst: OK, so I'll leave those two bits of bug 1330037 to you and Noskcaj?
<ubot5> bug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] upower 0.99.1 transition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330037
<darkxst> pitti, I wont have time to look until the weekend, but ok
<pitti> darkxst: that sounds fine
<darkxst> pitti, ok
 * darkxst must sleep now
<Laney> night!
<didrocks> willcooke: Laney: seb128: so, I have the ubuntu desktop next image booted here, I have the password prompt asking me for a password, empty or "ubuntu" doesn't work
<didrocks> seb128: is it the thing we saw together and so, the blank password doesn't really work under Qt?
<didrocks> hum, updated to "ubuntu" in a tty and still doesn't work
<didrocks> weren't we supposed to autolog in that live image?
<seb128> didrocks, just go to a vt and change the passwd
<didrocks> 13:25:11  didrocks | hum, updated to "ubuntu" in a tty and still doesn't work
<didrocks> seb128: ^
<seb128> didrocks, or edit https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity8/drop-workaround-empty-pwd-login/+merge/239401 by hand
<seb128> didrocks, it's one line to delete
<seb128> didrocks, we do autologin, you get the unity8 lock screen
<seb128> and we don't use "no password"
<seb128> we use the empty password set as a passwd
<seb128> remember, that's what you helped me with in washington ;-)
<didrocks> hence my 13:23:49  didrocks | seb128: is it the thing we saw together and so, the blank password doesn't really work under Qt?
<didrocks> so yeah, I do remember about it :)
<didrocks> it's still weird to have that prompt, even with empty password
<seb128> didrocks, try deleting the line from that mr ^
<didrocks> and that it doesn't work if you passwd
<didrocks> yeah, doing that (restarting, it hanged)
<seb128> didrocks, well, prompt is normal, because from a pam viewpoint you have a password
<seb128> the text just happens to be the empty string
<seb128> still unsure why the livecd guys did that
<seb128> rather than using passwd -d
<didrocks> seb128: unity8 isn't an upstart job?
<seb128> it is
 * didrocks can't sudo restart unity8
<seb128> no sudo
<seb128> it's an user job
<didrocks> unknown job as well (from a tty)
<seb128> same user?
<didrocks> ubuntu-desktop-next@
<Laney> you won't be in the upstart session there
<seb128> you need to export the right env
<seb128> easier to sig9 unity8
<didrocks> seb128: doesn't really restart after a sigkill
<seb128> weird
<didrocks> ok, rebooting then
<didrocks> hoping that the key is persistent :)
<didrocks> humok, not persistent and unity8 definitively doesn't restart after a sigkill. Let me try an installation on that machineâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, I usually sudo restart lightdm
<seb128> that for sure work
<didrocks> ah, the whole loginâ¦
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok, doing
<seb128> well, it works on utopuc
<seb128> utopic even
<seb128> didn't try vivid yet
<didrocks> I will tell you if this works with vivid :)
<didrocks> however, booting is quite unreliableâ¦
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> usb stick issue you think?
<didrocks> really unsure, worked well with other live recently, never got a glinch
<didrocks> ok, restarting lightdm works and I can log in
<seb128> great
<seb128> now we just need to nag Saviq to get that one liner unity8 change in vivid
<seb128> that shouldn't be blocker by rtm
<Saviq> seb128, yeah, will do
<seb128> Saviq, thanks
<Saviq> seb128, I've one vivid landing that I just ACKed (sync with rtm really)
<seb128> Saviq, it doesn't include that change though?
<Saviq> seb128, not yet
<seb128> :-(
<Saviq> seb128, I need to get a clean-ish slate first
<seb128> it's a one liner and safe, shame it takes so much effort to get it landed :/
<seb128> it doesn't even impact codepath used on the phone
<Saviq> seb128, well, it's not that one that takes so much effort, it's everything else that got out of sync between vivid and rtm
<Saviq> seb128, yeah, which is why it won't land in rtm at all
<seb128> well, you could have batched with whatever else was in there
<seb128> it's not going to conflict with rtm work
<Saviq> seb128, except I already have like 30 branches in there
<seb128> so it should apply fine on whatever you upload to vivid
<seb128> k, anyway just being grumpy about desktop-next login being buggy since july
<seb128> sorry for the ranting
<Saviq> seb128, it'll happen, really, it will, I just couldn't land that silo yesterday 'cause we had a different issue
<seb128> I just wish desktop would get some attention
<Saviq> seb128, well now, bug was only filed in september
<seb128> Saviq, k, thanks
<Saviq> seb128, MP is ap since when, a week?
<seb128> Saviq, yeah, I discussed it a couple of times with mterry and others
<seb128> Saviq, right, I did look at fixing because nobody was looking at it since <ages>
<Saviq> seb128, it's not like we're trying to ignore that actively
<seb128> but I guess I could have looked earlier, I'm as much to blame as others
<Saviq> seb128, we're basically excluded from what happens in desktop-next
<seb128> Saviq, well, it's more than we let land things that regress the desktop and then don't bother trying to sort out the regressions
<seb128> Saviq, we need the test plans to account for desktop-next
<seb128> and stop the line when we bug this one
<didrocks> argh, I have no way to disable the touchscreen on Mir
<didrocks> and this hardware gives random inputs, so I needed on X to disable it
<seb128> didrocks, we don't have any on unity7/xorg either I think
<didrocks> seb128: xinput
<seb128> oh, right, I though you mean GUI
<didrocks> and then toggle the correct property
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> just want to disable it whatever
<seb128> k
<didrocks> here, my mouse is moving randomely
<didrocks> clicking
<didrocks> not really nice to experimentâ¦
<seb128> on what device did you install it?
<didrocks> XT2
<seb128> oh, so you have a test laptop :-) does that have bt?
<didrocks> it doesn't
<seb128> I see
<didrocks> it claims it has one, but doesnt' work
<didrocks> tried with fedora/ubuntu
<didrocks> but yeah, the unity8 image isn't usable at all if I can't turn off the wrongly touch screen :(
<seb128> if you are going to work on bluetooth I guess it would be worst expensing a stick
<didrocks> seb128: well, seems priority changes, so not sure yet, but yeah, it would make sense
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> did you ask on the mir channel about turning off touch?
<didrocks> not yet, will try
<didrocks> have few hope though
<seb128> I first had to create some text file for the touch screen to work on the latitude
<seb128> not sure if they moved away from those description
<didrocks> seb128: how would you try starting any random .desktop file?
 * didrocks goes on #mir
<seb128> if they didn't you might be able to delete a file to make it stop work
<seb128> didrocks, X-Ubuntu-Touch=true in the .desktop and restart the session
<seb128> (or maybe just the dash process is enough, or a lens)
<seb128> that makes the .desktop listed in the dash
<seb128> I can run gedit like that
<didrocks> ok, let's try
<didrocks> seb128: perfect, thanks! :)
<didrocks> so, confirming Qtcreator is quite, unusable
<didrocks> can't even switch back to it clicking to the .desktop file
<seb128> didrocks, can you right swipe back to it?
<desrt> good morning
<didrocks> yeah, this is working
<didrocks> morning desrt
<desrt> Laney: what am i supposed to have been doing?
<seb128> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> sleepy :)
<pitti> hey desrt
<desrt> pitti: good morning
<seb128> desrt, rebasing the gtk-mir patch on current stable gtk I think
<desrt> oh.  i did that and pastebinned it to larsu
<desrt> it was pretty simple -- only had one conflict in configure.ac
<seb128> who is off this week
<desrt> i can do it again
<seb128> so maybe he did it but didn't push his work
<seb128> don't bother
<seb128> that can wait monday for Lars to be back
<desrt> sure
 * desrt acquires coffee
<Laney> I was just saying that I thought it did happen
 * didrocks waits for an answer on #ubuntu-mirâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, east is sleeping, u.k is eating, u.s is sleeping, not the best time of the day ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: let's see if they will reply when being back
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> I'm afraid from past experience though :)
<didrocks> ok, great, I have a name to bother now :)
<seb128> didrocks, see :-)
<seb128> I was going to suggest racarr as well
<seb128> nice to see you got a reply though
<didrocks> yeah, things are changing with years :)
<desrt> seb128: us may be sleeping, but .ca is drinking coffee
<didrocks> interesting, the tty was in fr, and unity8 used US layout
<didrocks> I guess we'll have quite a lot of such bugsâ¦
<seb128> "input" under Mir is not something that got lot of work yet, that's on the list for this cycle though
 * didrocks waits on tedg to get up now! :)
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Hey, I was reading the backlog here and noticed some discussion about https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/unity8/drop-workaround-empty-pwd-login/+merge/239401 which is linked to bug #1360307.  I think that bug is slightly different than what your fix is addressing.
<ubot5> bug 1360307 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Logging in to the desktop session brings up the lock screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360307
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, shrug
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Correct me if I'm wrong, but your fix doesn't get rid of the unity-greeter prompt at that point, right?  It only accepts an empty password, right?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, did you open another one for "can't log in from unity8 log screen"?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, no, it doesn't but I though your bug was about the "can't get to the session"
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Hmm, I don't remember.  Let me go look around.
<seb128> feel free to change for another one
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Ok, if I didn't then I'll create one.  But thanks a bunch for fixing that!
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, thanks
<seb128> yw!
<desrt> so i did some research last night
<desrt> looks like halifax has a few good hotels with lots of conference space
<desrt> it also has (relatively short) direct flights from london and frankfurt
<willcooke> hummm. Do we need a GStreamer sink for Mir?
<desrt> "doesn't _really_ work like that"
<willcooke> k
<willcooke> :)
<ogra_> desrt, well ...
<desrt> you need a gstreamer sink for drmable video memory
<ogra_> there are x11 sinks ... so you can take screenshots
<desrt> ogra_: *sources
<desrt> and this wouldn't work in mir from what i understand (for security reasons)
<ogra_> we kind of lack the same thing for mir
<ogra_> oh, right .. wrong term
 * ogra_ was looking into doing screen captures locally on the phone before ... sadly you need to convert the raw data somehow 
<desrt> willcooke: in short, you're probably never going to want gstreamer talking directly to the display server, but rather displaying something that's wrapped at least a little bit by some toolkit-provided chrome (controls and such)
<desrt> unless you want a really trivial demo output for debug/demo purposes (and indeed this exists for x11)
<desrt> and the way that gstreamer talks to the toolkit for showing video in wayland is going to be more or less exactly the same as for mir
<desrt> and it has more to do with the acceleration capabilities of the graphics card than it has to do with the display server
<tedg> didrocks, ping
<didrocks> tedg: pong
<tedg> didrocks, You were waiting for me to wake up, but I can't figure out context.
<didrocks> tedg: ah no worry :) some questions on what next steps we need to take to make qtcreator running on the desktop next image a reality
<didrocks> tedg: I know you talked a little bit about it with bregma a while back
<didrocks> I see that there are few X11 calls (mainly to raise the main window)
<tedg> didrocks, I think that the part I was blocking on was landing the cgroups support in UAL, which we've done.
<didrocks> but apart from multi-window managements, it seems you thought about other issues to the multi-process needs?
<tedg> didrocks, That way Mir can detect all the process connections for an app.
<didrocks> tedg: ok, this part is now over. and all processes are tagged for Mir to know it's part of this app
<tedg> didrocks, I don't think that bregma is focused on Qt Desktop apps right now, they're trying to get something generic for legacy X apps.
<bregma> the problem still happens but evidently cgroups was not the answer
<didrocks> bregma: what was the problem you are talking about?
<bregma> I haven't looked in to it lately, other than to check that it's still a problem
<didrocks> the fact that one surface is displayed but doesn't receive any inputs?
<bregma> QtCreator hangs after presenting the startup screen, witing for two subprocesses to complete
<didrocks> how did you identify it was waiting on some subprocesses to complete?
<didrocks> I see the same number of processes between my Xorg and Mir sessions
<bregma> maybe there's a new problem then
<bregma> it's the usual whack-a-mole problem getting stuff to run
<didrocks> seems this likely won't be trivial
<didrocks> also, I wonder why only the welcome screen is displayed
<didrocks> not the chrome
<didrocks> it's like it was sending the wrong surface to Mir?
<bregma> I'll take a quick look again today, now that I've unbroken my test system again
<didrocks> bregma: unbroken doesn't mean fixed? :)
<didrocks> bregma: keep me posted if I can help you in any mean ;)
<bregma> evidently you can DOS upstart with a well-crafter config file
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks>  stop calling upstart within upstart! :)
<bregma> and an SSD can full up really fast with log messages
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<bregma> 13158 ?        Ssl    0:01  |       \_ qtcreator
<bregma> 13221 ?        Z      0:00  |       |   \_ [cmake] <defunct>
<bregma> that's the problem there
<bregma> dunno whu cmake gets run, that would require looking at code again
<kenvandine> seb128, who takes care of ubuntu-themes these days?
<seb128> kenvandine, you!
<seb128> thanks for stepping up
<seb128> ;-)
<willcooke> attente_, pingaling
 * kenvandine disconnects
<seb128> kenvandine, you are looking at the indicator updated icons?
<kenvandine> bzr says larsu has been active
<seb128> kenvandine, I replied to Pat yesterday that I was ok taking that one
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~tiheum/ubuntu-themes/new-indicators/+merge/235598
<kenvandine> seb128, great
<seb128> but if you want to do it feel free
<kenvandine> it doesn't merge cleanly though
<seb128> oh? :-/
<kenvandine> i replied on the MP
<kenvandine> i'd rather not :)
<seb128> tiheum, ^ known issue? you might need to rebase
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, well, larsu has been maintaining the desktop theme/updating for newer GTK versions
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm fine handling those landings
<attente_> willcooke: hi
<kenvandine> seb128, thanks :)
<willcooke> attente_ in the house!!
<didrocks> bregma: what are you using? I don't see that with pstree -p -s
<kenvandine> seb128, i'm creating a vivid landing for everything not blocked by the unity8 landing
<kenvandine> seb128, but no free silos right now
<didrocks> bregma: with ps axf, I see the same (2 subprocess defunct, named qtcreator), as when run on X11
<didrocks> nice to see you back attente_!
<didrocks> attente_: how are things in Canada? :)
<bregma> didrocks, after a while the zombies seem to get reaped and regular Mir buffer swaps start happening, so it may be a non-problem there
<bregma> as in, the problem is something else
<attente_> didrocks: pretty good, how was japan?
<didrocks> attente_: excellent! Really worthed the travel and double jetlag :)
<didrocks> attente_: I'll show you some photos if you want at next sprint (but not all of them, 2100+ ;))
<didrocks> at least, was nice to compare SNCF and a real train organization in a civilized country
<attente_> wow, you photographed everything there, ha
<didrocks> yeah, it was really really nice, and had some splendid weather
<didrocks> even discussed with an ubuntu fan at a shrine :)
<didrocks> bregma: it seems that a subsurface is rendered anyway, I wonder if the inputs are just not matching the surface
<didrocks> bregma: do you think we should ask the Mir team to look at this?
<seb128> kenvandine, excellent
<didrocks> attente_: is it cold in Canada already?
<bregma> didrocks, it wouldn't hurt: it may be pure Qt needs integration that's already in qt-mir or something
<didrocks> yeah
<attente_> didrocks: not particularly, in toronto at least
<attente_> it's about 5 degrees i think
<willcooke> do we have an official IRC client?
<willcooke> s/official/default
<bregma> didrocks, forecast is for snow on Hallowe'en  (Friday) here
 * didrocks reads "not particularly cold" and "5" in the same sentence -> doesn't compute! :)
<didrocks> bregma: waow, lovely ;)
<didrocks> willcooke: we don't, but most sane people don't use xchat-gnome and rather a CLI one
<didrocks> willcooke: the kind of people using xchat-gnome are emacs users generally btw
<willcooke> didrocks, BUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLSHHIIIII........
<didrocks> :p
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> so I was chatting with attente_ about this
 * seb128 doesn't feel concerned
<willcooke> and seb128
<willcooke> and didrocks
<seb128> who would use emacs and xchat-gnome?
<willcooke> well lots of people
<seb128> crazyness ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: isn't it? ;)
 * mdeslaur slaps didrocks
<willcooke> right - so we (I) think we should get XChat Gnome working on Mir
<willcooke> the reason for that is because I assumed thats what "most people" use
<willcooke> if that's not the case, then perhaps we shouldnt do that
<willcooke> my gut feeling is that we should though
<seb128> willcooke, didrocks was mostly trolling there ...
<didrocks> yeah, I agree it's what most of people are using
<didrocks> I was just trolling a half-french-german on the channel :)
 * seb128 still not feeling concerned
<seb128> :p
<didrocks> seb128: try harder!
<seb128> or just a bit...
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> yeah, xchat-gnome running on Mir would be nice
<willcooke> the we are agreed
<willcooke> \o/
<didrocks> so yeah, agreed that xchat gnome is needed as part of what people using IRC are going to need
<willcooke> ok attente_ so all that ummming and errring was for nought - looks like you've got a big job on your hands
<willcooke> good luck
<willcooke> wake me up when you've finished it
<willcooke> o/
<didrocks> "kthxbye"
<willcooke> :D
<tiheum> seb128: concerning the mp, how can I know what the conflicts are?
<seb128> tiheum, just branch trunk and try to bzr merge your vcs on
<seb128> or take you version and bzr merge lp:ubuntu-themes
<seb128> your*
<tiheum> seb128: sorry but what do you call vcs?
<seb128> tiheum, your checkout of lp:ubuntu-themes with your changes
<seb128> tiheum, if you are not fluent with bzr, the easier might be to do a fresh checkout from trunk and copy your files over again
<seb128> or do whatever you did the first itme
<seb128> time
<tiheum> seb128: ok, will try
<seb128> tiheum, don't hesitate to ask here if you have questions/issues
<tiheum> seb128: sure (actually, I am not very fluent with bzr)
<tiheum> thanks
<tiheum> seb128: can I have two mp for two different branches at the same time? At the moment, there's already this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~tiheum/ubuntu-themes/suru-icons/+merge/231533
<tiheum> ready to land since more than one month :/
<didrocks> interesting, seems there was not (at least in my installation) sshd host key
<willcooke> didrocks, ahh
<willcooke> didrocks, on a desktop next install?
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah
<willcooke> didrocks, yeah, I noticed that too, I assume I'd done something daft
<didrocks> I'll need to reinstall to confirm it's not a one-time bug
<didrocks> ah, it's not one-time
<willcooke> in the end I removed and reinstalled and it sorted it
<didrocks> I think we have a hook on ubiquity
<didrocks> willcooke: well, this happen on package reconfigure
<didrocks> so dpkg-reconfigure openssh-server is enough
<willcooke> I did a remove and an install
<didrocks> will have a look once achieved the current debugging on qtcreator
<happyaron> seb128: I've uploaded the fix to exp this morning, synced just now
<happyaron> Laney: ibus was on my list after fcitx actually, but you are quicker, :)
<Laney> I didn't upload that
<didrocks> Mirv: hey, I'm trying to find libqt5widgets5-dbgsym, but it doesn't seem to exist?
<happyaron> Laney: okay, that's dholbach
<Laney> yeah I just told someone off for stealing merges ;-)
<Mirv> didrocks: qt packages build their own debug packages, so try installing qtbase5-dbg
<didrocks> Mirv: ok, doing that, thanks!
<Mirv> np
<didrocks> bregma: so that you don't waste your time: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtmir/+bug/1387762
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1387762 in qtmir (Ubuntu) "Qtcreator is hanging at startup on the desktop next image" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
 * seb128 watches pitti happily skipping the CI process and commiting directly to unity-control-center ;-)
<pitti> seb128: see scrollback from this morning, apparently that was ok?
<seb128> pitti, I'm a bit lost to what is ok or not nowadays to be honest, I though things under CI shouldn't be manually uploaded
<seb128> but I'm not going to complain at the same time
<seb128> the CI way is more tedious and not always that useful
 * desrt hits seb128 with a train
<seb128> desrt, :p
<pitti> anyway, I'm mostly through the transition now
<seb128> pitti, thanks for working on that btw ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> required quite a number of merges, porting, etc., but darkxst really did most of the work already
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I'm not sure why we even bother with the train for that; these packages have no autopkgtests, aren't on touch images, etc.
<pitti> one needs to manually test them anyway
<pitti> so I take some pride in my core-dev powers and skip all the machinery :)
<pitti> err, I mean "no autopilot tests", but same difference
<didrocks> if the build-deps/deps are well defined and not half of the transition is moving to the release pocket, I don't think we need to have the silo phase
<didrocks> (especially if it's not on touch)
<didrocks> things will happily stays in proposed while testing
<pitti> yeah, that too
<pitti> this is going to stay around in -proposed for a few days
<pitti> Laney needs to land his system-settings MP, darkxst/Noskcaj their gnome-session bits, etc.
<pitti> and they don't have CI train access
<pitti> or I upload the backported patches if it takes too long
<seb128> Laney has landig/CI access
<Laney> he meant the last two
<seb128> gnome-session isn't under CI though
<Laney> iiiiiiiiiiindeede
<seb128> I maybe mis-parsed the bit about CI and backporting then
 * Laney shrugs
<seb128> anyway, shouldn't be too difficult to land those
<seb128> settings-rtm has its own vcs now and vivid landing are not restricted
<pitti> so that leaves powerd
<pitti> I'll do an MP and land that via train then, I guess
<pitti> (and hope review will be quicker than https://code.launchpad.net/~sforshee/powerd/fix-warnings/+merge/188613 :-) )
<didrocks> Laney: do you know of a good documentation explaining how logind works? like concepts and so on
<Laney> like http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat/ ?
<didrocks> Laney: perfect! thx
<didrocks> eod, see you tomorrow or on Monday for those swapping :)
<pitti> seb128: I just discovered a stronger reason why the train fails here -- the builds don't seem to use -proposed
<pitti> so we can't land that transition in a silo, but use -proposed only
<pitti> -ECOMPLICATED!
<seb128> pitti, I think that's by design
<pitti> seb128: the "complicated"? :-)
<seb128> but yeah, the way it should be done is to have the full transition in a silo
<seb128> including upower
<pitti> (TGIF .. almost)
<seb128> and yeah
<seb128> overcomplicated
<xnox> seb128: Laney: can lightdm use a gtk2 greeter?
<seb128> xnox, I guess so
<seb128> why not?
<seb128> it has qt4 and qt5 greeters
<seb128> the interface between lightdm and the greeters is not toolkit dependent
<desrt> pro tip: when you hear 'train' or 'silo' just stop paying attention
<desrt> saves brain cells that way
<Laney> THERE'S A TRAIN COMING
<desrt> la la la
<mitya57> seb128, darkxst: Re gnome-flashback dialogs: first, this is not in gnome-panel, but rather in a separate application (which can be used in Unity as well).
<mitya57> Next, that app basically provides an org.gnome.Shell.something D-Bus interface that gnome-session talks to.
<mitya57> So it does not know whether it was called from keyboard shortcut, via UI or just using "gnome-session-quit".
<seb128> cool
<mitya57> That application also does other useful things like drawing the wallpaper (which we currently do via Nautilus patch).
<mitya57> Ubuntu currently has gnome-flashback 3.10, but I am going to upload 3.14 shortly (can't sync as it needs some Ubuntu-specific patches).
<Laney> do we use any of those dialogs in unity?
<seb128> no
<mitya57> But anything that is not gnome-shell or Unity can use that app. So it should be safe to drop these dialogs from gnome-session.
<seb128> desrt, in case you don't see launchpad bug pings, https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-42189 got some debugging action and a suggested patch and people would welcome you giving it a look ;-)
<desrt> i saw that
<desrt> not sure i have anything to say about it though
<seb128> k, just comment saying that if you don't, so people don't think you didn't see it
<darthbunny> anyone knows how you can enable the virtual keyboard on unity8 ?
<seb128> bregma, you might know ^ ?
<bregma> darthbunny, there is no automated way (yet)
<darthbunny> hou about manually?
<bregma> mmm, not sure, I think the keyboard designed to work on the phone is click-packaged only
<bregma> other keyboards won't work, since they're X11 keyboards
<seb128> click work on unity8 desktop though
<seb128> you can install things from the click store
<darthbunny> yup
<seb128> so maybe it's possible to install the osk click?
<bregma> yes, but it means I haven't tested it
<seb128> something to add to the todolist I guess
<darthbunny> but when I click text fields it doesn't auto-show nothing :)
<bregma> yep
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<darthbunny> osk click is a package or store app?
<bregma> darthbunny, try 'apt-get install ubuntu-keyboard' and restart Unity 8
<bregma> it might *just* work
<darthbunny> atm I'm on the live iso
<darthbunny> and seems installed
<darthbunny> any chance it would work if I undock my tab?
<bregma> ah, I see it's installed for me, too, but Unity 8 is not finding it, there must be some other magic required
<darthbunny> I'll do a full install
<bregma> darthbunny, I don't think undocking will help, I see errors in the log like 'UbuntuKeyboardInfo - socket error: "QLocalSocket::connectToServer: Invalid name"' so I think it needs some development work
<bregma> some kinds of configuration that gets statically installed on the phone image perhaps
<darthbunny> I also see there is an ubuntu-touch package
<darthbunny> I don't suppose that would help...
<bregma> darthbunny, ubuntu-touch is a metapackage for installing the phone image, it pulls in things that break the desktop in general
<bregma> it's likely that there are some config files that are "seeded" in the phone image, in other words not included in and packages that get pulled in as a dependency, and keyboard support may be one of them
<darthbunny> I see
<darthbunny> should I report this as a bug somewhere?
<Laney> right, I'm outta here, see you on Monday
<seb128> Laney, enjoy your swap day and w.e!
<Laney> cheers, will do ;-)
<Laney> there's a halloween climbing competition or something
<Laney> ...
<willcooke> off too, day off tomorrow
<willcooke> ttfn
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-31
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: terribly tired :?
<pitti> :/ rather
<pitti> I'd been awake from 3 to 6:30, and now slept for another hour or so
<seb128> pitti, :-(
<didrocks> morning!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va ! presque plus malade. ;)
<didrocks> pitti: et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: fatiguÃ© -- je peux dormir trÃ¨s mauvais :(
<pitti> didrocks: ouch, did you pick up ubuflu?
<didrocks> pitti: oh ? encore dÃ©calÃ© ?
<didrocks> pitti: I had temperature on wednesday and thursday (~39Â°C), no flu though, just sweating a lotâ¦
<pitti> parait-il :/
<didrocks> Today is better for me, less temperature I guess, just a lot of sweating again during the night, so lack of sleep. Should be sorted out by tomorrow.
<didrocks> I guess my body is making me pay 4 weeks for double jetlags :)
<seb128> lut didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va mieux, merci ! et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va, merci !
<darkxst> hey seb128 pitti didrocks
<didrocks> morning darkxst
<seb128> hey
<darkxst> didrocks, its evening here ;)
<didrocks> darkxst: seeing at what time you are up sometimes, let me doubt about it :p
<darkxst> didrocks, I'm rarely up later than 11pm or 12
<didrocks> fair enough :)
<darkxst> seb128, any updates on what will happen with CSD's this cycle? are you going to continue to stick with old gedit/nautilus etc?
<seb128> either stick with old, or update the way we did with evince
<darkxst> seb128, not all can be done like that, well not easily
<seb128> e.g have a codepath that do things differently under Unity
<darkxst> some are the old toolbar becomes header bar
<seb128> well, those might need to stay on old versions then
<darkxst> things like gedit have split header bars and no resemblance to the old toolbar
<seb128> yeah, that's fine
<darkxst> seb128, would it be possible for us to ship some of these in separate source packages
<seb128> your call I guess
<seb128> you can fork them and make a case to get those new sources in universe
<seb128> but it would probably be less work for you to help to patch the apps to look correct under Unity in their newer version
<darkxst> seb128, as in fork packaging and have gedit-3.14 or whatever replace gedit?
<darkxst> seb128, certainly some apps would be easier to just patch, but some have deviated a long way from their old toolbars
<seb128> well, we don't need a toolbar
<seb128> like gedit would probably look ok with it's headerbar not set a titlebar/not having the win control
<darkxst> seb128, what I mean, a lot of apps just switched from using GtkToolbar to GtkHeaderbar thus loosing the window decorations
<seb128> e.g having the wm decoration and the headerbar packed under it
<seb128> right
<seb128> evince did that
<seb128> we patched back to do what I just described
<seb128> not use setitlebar on the gtkheaderbar
<seb128> just packed it as a normal widget in the win
<seb128> not enabled the controls as well
<seb128> so it looks like a toolbar
<seb128> same should work for e.g nautilus
<seb128> gedit even has configure option for that it seems, need to check how it works
<seb128> they use it for macOS
<seb128> so that's buildtime, so it might make you guys unhappy if we enable the build option
<darkxst> seb128, yeh needs to be runtime, but I will took
<seb128> to which ones?
<seb128> one example of patch from robert_ancell, for file-roller
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/187779189/0001-Don-t-use-headerbars-in-Unity.patch
<darkxst> seb128, I think gedit is probably the worst one
<seb128> could be
<darkxst> seb128, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/115870/Screenshot%20from%202014-10-31%2020%3A17%3A58.png
<seb128> well, let's see how their macOS UI looks like
<seb128> but otherwise having that ui, without the document title/close button in the headerbar and with a normal decoration on top might look ok
<darkxst> seb128, the osx build seems to have a lot more than just ui changes
<seb128> k, that's what pbor recommended looking at, maybe that was not a good advice
<darkxst> seb128, seems to be a lot of other osx specific stuff mixed in, so would likely need cherry pick out on the UI changes
<seb128> right
<darkxst> anyway not really up to looking at the apps yet, but just want to make sure we actually move forward with these, this cycle and not be blocked by ui changes
<darkxst> and if you are ok with the new UI and tradition headerbar then I guess its not too much of a problem
<darkxst> though the menu patches are likely to be a pain to maintain
<seb128> yeah, it's work, but until we default to unity8 or replace the apps, we need to do that
<darkxst> seb128, right and this cycle should be easier, being behind debian at the moment
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> seb128, Laney: so for bug 1330037 I now uploaded everything except powerd and system-settings
<ubot5> bug 1330037 in powerd (Ubuntu) "[FFe] upower 0.99.1 transition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330037
<seb128> great
<seb128> pitti, laney is off today, so settings on monday I guess
<pitti> both have MPs, maybe Laney can approve my powerd one (ChickenCutlass already approved the general idea on IRC yesterday, but wanted an #if conditional which I did now)
<pitti> ah
<Laney> pitti: Don't think I can approve powerd, try sforshee
<Laney> and anyone should feel free to review u-s-s, doesn't need to wait for me at this point
<pitti> Laney: Ken already approved system-settings
<Laney> neat
<pitti> Laney: so I just need an ack for powerd, then we can land the two remaining bits (in one silo, I figure)
<ogra_> pitti, whats that ? i think i can approve
<Laney> Do the silos themselves build against proposed?
<pitti> Laney: yes, I asked sil2100 that this morning
<pitti> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/powerd/upower0.99/+merge/240141
<Laney> good
<pitti> ogra_: ChickenCutlass already ack'ed the previous version on IRC yesterday, but wanted an #if to build against both versions
<ogra_> yeah, in case we need to cherry pick into rtm we wouldnt have to remove it ... looks fine
<pitti> ogra_: right, that was the idea -- avoid branching
<Laney> oh I can approve!
<pitti> ogra_: (FTR, we don't need to land *this* in RTM, it's a no-op there; just vivid)
<ogra_> right
 * Laney does
<ogra_> approved all over
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> then off to landing, I suppose :)
<pitti> ogra_: danke
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> Laney: of course they do ;)
<Laney> It wasn't always the case
<didrocks> not at the start of a cycle (like the first month of trusty) due to a lot of churns
<didrocks> then the CI team redisabled it without warning due to an human error, but then, it was fixed
<didrocks> (it was when I was on holidays)
<didrocks> but AFAIK, they don't touch those settings anymore
<didrocks> maybe for rtm, as there is no real "proposed"
<didrocks> Laney: aren't you supposed to be on a swap day btw?
<Laney> sure there is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/glib2.0/+publishinghistory
<Laney> it's smaller though so less chance of blockage
<Laney> yeah, that's why I only got up 30 minutes ago :P
<didrocks> Laney: you know you are not supposed to connect? ;)
<Laney> slippery fingers :(
<didrocks> interesting on this -proposed rtm
<didrocks> "wrong click at the wrong time" :)
<Laney> & http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/ubuntu-rtm/update_excuses.html
<didrocks> nice!
<didrocks> see, prooves I'm so disconnected of this now :)
<didrocks> which I guessâ¦ is a good thing
<pitti> seb128: just cross-checking: do you see any reason not to uplaod gnome-terminal 3.12.2 now? (as in current bzr)
 * pitti does a new test-build/install/run
<pitti> death to gconf!
<seb128> pitti, no objection from me, but I didn't look much at the update either
<seb128> go for it
<didrocks> pitti: do you know what is currently providing creating the systemd cgroups on utopic? (and I see we have per session users cgroups already) like /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd/user/1000.user
<didrocks> pitti: is that our logind?
<seb128> didrocks, still trying to figure out the qtcreator thing?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, not really, why?
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I though you ended up looking at cgroups because of that
<didrocks> seb128: the qtcreator is mostly figured out, and on greyback's plate
<seb128> since you discussed mir/cgroups
<didrocks> yeah, it's not what is blocking qtcreator
<seb128> k, I just though that was the reason you were doing cgroup stuff today
<didrocks> it's just that we render the wrong surface and Mir is confused and so, not giving the next frame
<seb128> k
<didrocks> seb128: well, that will come handy later on, I'm sure we are not at the end of this qtcreator story :)
<pitti> seb128: meh -- just tested it again, and it seems it's not migrating the profiles properly; I thought this worked previously :(
<seb128> pitti, :-/
<pitti> ok, not a Friday afternoon thing then
<soren> How does Unity decide which files to show as recent? I assume there's some database that GNOME-y apps register things in, but I can't work out where it is.
<didrocks> soren: zeitgeist is collecting those
<soren> didrocks: Where does it store it? I feel I've looked everywhere, but evidently not :)
<didrocks> some GNOME apps have zeitgeist integration and it's pushed into their database
<didrocks> hum, let me look
<soren> Oh..
<soren> I think I just found it.
<soren> ls -l /proc/$(pidof zeitgeist-daemon)/fd    to the resuce
<soren> rescue, even.
<didrocks> you have the fts index in ~/.local/share/zeitgeist/fts.index
<didrocks> and yeah .local/share/zeitgeist/ for the db :)
<didrocks> pitti: did you miss my question or just busy? ;)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: sorry, busy
<pitti> didrocks: it's cgmanager
<didrocks> no worry and no hurry :)
<didrocks> ah, ok!
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<pitti> didrocks: we run systemd-shim which provides the StartTransientUnit() d-bus call that would otherwise be implemented by systemd pid 1
<pitti> didrocks: shim takes that call and implements it using cgmanager, which creates the cgroups
<pitti> didrocks: yes, all systemd units as well as login sessions are put into their own cgroup under systemd
<didrocks> pitti: but the day we are going to switch to systemd, it will be directly handled by systemd and cgmanager won't be needed anymore?
<didrocks> (yeah, I see that my "c2" session has its own control group)
<pitti> didrocks: right
<pitti> didrocks: well, other things like LXC might still call it
<pitti> but not for booting/systemd indeed
<didrocks> ok, that makes sense
<didrocks> thanks pitti
<seb128> kenvandine, nice to see that stack of settings changes landing ;-)
<kenvandine> yeah... that's a big list :)
<seb128> kenvandine, btw if you get to respin for whatever reason, I've some trivial changes in there
<seb128> one being a one line to change the battery icon to a monochrome one
<kenvandine> already published in vivid-proposed
<kenvandine> but it'll be held up with the upower transition
<kenvandine> which i hope isn't long
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> can you propose a branch?
<seb128> for what?
<kenvandine> the icon
<seb128> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/battery-non-colored-icon/+merge/240228
<seb128> kenvandine, I did this morning
<kenvandine> oh... thanks :)
<seb128> yw
<seb128> I also sent one to fix the scopes icons in the storage panel
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> we
<kenvandine> we'll have another long list by the time we can merge/clean :)
<seb128> yeah
<Noskcaj> pitti, I can't see that crash log, i don't have whatever access rights are needed
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-01
<Laney> pitti: upower> at least g-s-d hasn't built because your upload uncommented some geoclue-2.0 build-deps
 * Laney uploads that, let's see what happens after that is built
<ricotz> qengho, hi, why was chromium-browser updated in trusty and precise only? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser
<mhall119> ricotz: those are the currently supported releases (I'm assuming Utopic is updated also)
<ricotz> mhall119, the utopic version is lower than the trusty one 37.0.2062.94-0ubuntu1~pkg1065 vs 37.0.2062.120-0ubuntu0.14.04.1~pkg1049
<mhall119> ricotz: hmm, so it is. Interestingly I have 37.0.2062.120-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 on Utopic, which I must have gotten before I upgraded
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-02
<desrt> winning: searching in the dash for "tweak" without having gnome-tweak-tool installed
<desrt> first result under category "info": "Twerk of the year award 2014!!" and now i have a picture of someone's near-naked ass on my screen
<ogra_> desrt, you never looked for brasero i guess :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-26
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: gut danke! Hattest du ein schÃ¶nes Wochenende?
<pitti> larsu: ja, sehr ruhig, gut zwischen den ganzen Reisen :)
<pitti> und Du?
<larsu> schon wieder ein Sprint?
<larsu> ja auch ruhig - bisschen Kino und spazieren und so
<larsu> und Laney ist hier seit Samstag
<pitti> larsu: yeah, Austin next week
<darkxst> hey pitti larsu
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
<darkxst> pitti, sick today ;(
<pitti> darkxst: urgh, a cold?
<darkxst> yeh, another cold
<larsu> hi darkxst!
<larsu> oh, get better
<darkxst> but that gave me time to track damn a few big crashers
<darkxst> including seb128 favourite xorg crash ;)
<pitti> darkxst: get well soon then :/ sucks
<darkxst> pitti, thanks, flu/cold season should be ending here, but apparently not yet!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti larsu darkxst
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> darkxst, oh, did you figure it out?
<pitti> seb128: as-tu eu un bon w.e.?
<darkxst> seb128, yes, it was crashing on shutdown
<seb128> hey pitti, passÃ© un bon w.e
<darkxst> and the redhat guys already had that one fixed
<seb128> pitti, oui, super
<seb128> darkxst, k, shame we didn't get it fixed for release :-/
<larsu> hey seb128
<seb128> did you SRU it?
<darkxst> seb128, its completely harmless apart form the spam, and yes Ive filed an sru
<seb128> good
<seb128> yeah, but apport spam is impacting the user perception of the product
<seb128> and it's creating load on retracers&co
<darkxst> along with a fix for FTBFS in the mir stuff
<pitti> meh :/
<seb128> so still good to get fixed
<darkxst> robert_ancell doesnt apparently understand autoconf scripts
<darkxst> yet it oddly built when uploaded to the archives
<darkxst> bug 1509907
<ubot5> bug 1509907 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "FTBFS Due to typo in xmir.patch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509907
<darkxst> bug 1237904
<ubot5> bug 1237904 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in OsAbort()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237904
<darkxst> seb128, and the gjs crash is sorted also
<didrocks> good morning
<darkxst> last one to go is clutter update, but that wants new cogl major release, which could well just be a micro release ;)
<seb128> darkxst, good work sorting out those different issues ;-)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<darkxst> seb128, was a very productive sick day ;)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<tjaalton> darkxst: thanks.. too bad xserver git is still not in sync so I'll wait until robert has pushed his branch..
<seb128> didrocks, t'as eu un bon w.e de 3j ?
<darkxst> tjaalton, yeh, that confused me also
<didrocks> seb128: c'Ã©tait bien, oui, merci ! Et toi, bon week-end ?
<seb128> didrocks, oui, tranquille, y a fait beau ;-)
<tjaalton> darkxst: that other change.. could it be because mir itself changed? doko filed a bug about it
<tjaalton> mesa & xserver ftbfs now
<darkxst> tjaalton, yes but robert messed ubuntu the ubuntu9 diff
<desrt> good morning desktop!
<seb128> hey desrt!
<darkxst> PKG_CHECK_MODULES does not understand debian package names ;)
 * desrt comes back from insane weekend in zurich
<seb128> oh, was that good?
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<seb128> how many kms did you walk? ;-)
<darkxst> tjaalton, I don't know why it even built, unless it landed before the MIR changes?
<tjaalton> yeah mir changed only a week or to before release
<desrt> not many
<desrt> we were mostly playing defence
<desrt> it was super military-operation like
<larsu> morning desrt
<darkxst> tjaalton, ok, well ubuntu9 diff is clearly a typo
<desrt> like there was some central control area where they took "intelligence" reports from the agents on the street about what was going on (and how many people of the opposite team were present, etc)
<desrt> then made decisions about what to do and report it to team-leads
<desrt> who then 'commanded' their troops to new locations or to change tactics or whatever
<tjaalton> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/mir-client-platform-mesa-dev.pc
<desrt> pretty wild
<seb128> tjaalton, 1509005
<seb128> regression in the recent mir landing
<tjaalton> yeah that one
<darkxst> tjaalton, my sbuild refuses to admit the existance of that file!
<tjaalton> darkxst: it's not there anymore, my Contents.* are old :)
<tjaalton> just saying that it's the same bug
<tjaalton> it used to be -dev, the mir renamed it
<tjaalton> so the diff is right, fixing xorg-server portion of 1509005
<darkxst> tjaalton, k, didnt managed to find that bug report when I searched
<tjaalton> it was for mir
<tjaalton> added xserver/mesa to it
<darkxst> tjaalton, yes I see, but why changing .pc filenames after freeze?
<tjaalton> exactly
<tjaalton> but looks like rbuilddeps will be fixed instead
<darkxst> tjaalton, ok
<darkxst> pitti, is there someway apport could flag shutdown bugs?
<pitti> darkxst: actually it has tried to do that for a long time already
<pitti> data/apport is_closing_session()
<pitti> it asks org.gnome.SessionManager if the session is closing, and if so, igonres the crash
<pitti> but that's racy and might not always owrk
<darkxst> clearly not working here
<pitti> l
<darkxst> or the other gnome-session bug that was disabling everyones shell extension due to a crash on shutdown
<darkxst> or maybe it did work there, and ingnoring the crash wasnt helpful
<darkxst> but regardless users get crash reports on login so they think it happen well on login
<Trevinho> Morning
<darkxst> seb128, is gtk in progress?
<seb128> Trevinho, hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: getting better, you?
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm good thanks, had a good w.e and enjoyed the nice weather, a bit sleepy this morning though ;-)
<larsu> hi from Laney
<larsu> or better: Laney says hi
<larsu> darkxst: yes
<larsu> it's in the ppa
<darkxst> larsu does laney have a new bot?
<seb128> hey Laney
<larsu> darkxst: I don't know
<seb128> darkxst, desktop ppa has it but I think Laney said it was not ready
<seb128> he just got it to build so it can be tested
<larsu> it's ready to try
<didrocks> hi Laneyrsu :)
<seb128> but like the mir patch needs updating
<larsu> but there's no mir backend
<larsu> (seems like I'm Laney's bot)
<seb128> larsu, stop repeting what I say :p
<larsu> seb128: complain to Laney - I'm repeating what he says
<larsu> didrocks: hahhaaaha nice
<larsu> you people are fun
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<larsu> hi Sweet5hark
<didrocks> morning Sweet5hark
<larsu> didrocks: how are you?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: heya! so i figured it prolly makes sense for me to make two versions: ubuntu3 for wily to have a new unique verion id and ubuntu4 for xenial where I also switch of the collada, gltf and coinmp stuff ...
<Sweet5hark> larsu, didrocks: heya
 * Sweet5hark survived hackfest hamburg ;)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, how was the hackfest?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I thought it was very good, but as one of the organizers Im likely biased. Still have to write a blogpost about it ...
<seb128> mitya57, hey, gnome-applets fails to build in xenial with "Requested 'libpanel-applet >= 3.18.0' but version of libpanel-applet is 3.16.1" ... there is probably a build-depends that need to be updated to 3.18 there
<seb128> Sweet5hark, good :-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, for the 2 versions that makes sense, let me know when you get something ready for upload
<mitya57> seb128, the problem is that Ubuntu's gnome-panel has epoch number while Debian's doesn't
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<mitya57> seb128, I will upload new gnome-panel soon anyway
<seb128> mitya57, oh, right
<didrocks> larsu: starting to get sick, so, we'll seeâ¦
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hey, is this going to be 5.0.3~rc2?
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: nope
<ricotz> ah, ok
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<larsu> didrocks: oh shit. get better!
<didrocks> larsu: well, it's the start, so still bearable. Doing as much as possible as long as I feel "good" before it's getting worseâ¦
<larsu> drink more tea!
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: urgh, all the best for getting rid of that quickly
<didrocks> thx
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<darkxst> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke
<willcooke> Stupid daylight savings time
<larsu> we're back to normal!
<pitti> I'd really like to keep summer time all year aroudn
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> same for me, light later during the dayâ¦
<willcooke> pitti, yes!!  I'd love to move us forward 2 hours.
<darkxst> summer is overrated, constant 40C days coming soon here ;(
<pitti> tjaalton, darkxst: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.17.2-1ubuntu10 is blocked by https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/amd64/v/virtualbox/20151026_091418@/log.gz ; it fails on unavailable xserver-xorg-legacy, but it seems we've actually never had that
<pitti> do you know what's up with that pacakge?
<desrt> pop quiz: from your home directory /home/foo you make a symlink /home/foo/x -> /usr
<desrt> what does "/home/foo/x/.." now refer to?
<pitti> your home dir again?
<desrt> nope.  /
<desrt> i was surprised by this.
<pitti> I guess one coudl argue either way
<desrt> but not too surprised.  it actually makes sense when you consider that, internally, ".." is resolved just like any other item in the directory
<pitti> resolving links before .. or .. before links
<desrt> there is only one rule.  start at the left and move right.
<pitti> then this makes sense
<desrt> totally
<desrt> and even still, i bet you most people answer this question wrong :)
<desrt> it's also yet another reason that one cannot blindly simplify the path "/a/b/../c" to "/a/c" without first inspecting the filesystem
<larsu> desrt: interesting point. The path/inode relationship is so messed up :/
<desrt> larsu: i don't think so.... it sort of has a simple beauty to it, in fact
<desrt> the only thing to know is that ".." is very very strange and it doesn't work like most people think it does
<tjaalton> pitti: hum, it's provided by 'xorg' (source) which we haven't merged yet
<tjaalton> pitti: debian has switched to non-root X
<tjaalton> -legacy provides the old run by root
<pitti> tjaalton: ah, so that wasn't removed, but newly introduced, and the new virtualbox already uses it?
<tjaalton> apparently so
<pitti> ah, indeed: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#virtualbox
<tjaalton> I'll merge xorg then
<pitti>  * Add runtime dependency on xserver-xorg-legacy on virtualbox-guest-x11
<pitti>     (Closes: #801524)
<pitti> tjaalton: thanks for the explanation (and merging)!
<larsu> desrt: meh - the concepts of links and the way ".." works get in each others way
<larsu> desrt: it would be much simpler if I could simplify *any* path
<larsu> (without it being specific to a fs, of course)
<tkamppeter> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> hey tjaalton
<willcooke> oops, tkamppeter
<willcooke> sorry tjaalton - ignore
<tkamppeter> willcooke, mpt is back to work since today and tomorrow he would be ready to talk about thd print dialog.
<willcooke> tkamppeter, great, do you need me to be there?
<tkamppeter> willcooke, there is not really a meeting set up yet, I will simply talk with him on IRC and I can ping you then, and/or get a meeting together.
<willcooke> perfect, thanks tkamppeter
<mhall119> willcooke: can someone from your team to a Convergence track session or two and UDS to talk about the work that is going into bringing Unity 8 and Snappy to the desktop?
<willcooke> mhall119, better to speak to someone in the U8 team and the snappy team.
<mhall119> already poked them about it too
<willcooke> mhall119, as you can imagine, we integrate their stuff in to the desktop, but we're not really qualified to talk about the lower level parts
<mhall119> anything you can talk about (or planning that needs to be done) around that integration?
<mhall119> bregma: can you host some sessions about puritine and libertine?
<seb128> integration of what?
<mhall119> seb128: desktop apps with Mir, lifecycle management, confinement, etc
<andyrock> good morning all
<seb128> hey AndrewMC
<seb128> ups
<seb128> hey andyrock
<andyrock> :sweat_smile:
<Trevinho> seb128: can I do direct push to lp:unity only for doing a release?
<Trevinho> or to lp:unity/wily...
<seb128> Trevinho, why do you need that? shouldn't the train merge/tag things?
<Trevinho> I wanted to release unity 7.3.3
<Trevinho> So I need to update changelog and stuff like that and do the tarball
<seb128> unsure, ask on #ubuntu-ci-eng I guess
<Trevinho> ok
<seb128> you can bump the changelog in a mp that you ci lande
<seb128> unsure about the tarball part
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, but I didn't want to do a "SRU" for wily...
<tjaalton> pitti: actually it's xorg-server that will provide -legacy, but I'll wait until ancell has pushed his uploads to git
 * Trevinho hates this time-consuming duties
<sethj> is the bug scrub still happening? Been too busy the last couple weeks to keep up.
<willcooke> seb128, I saw you updated some rls-w-incoming to rls-x-incoming
<willcooke> Can we automatically move them all over do you think?
<willcooke> Although, I expect it will be hard to know which are ours and which are not?
<willcooke> I think we could automatically update the Unity 7, Compiz, Nux ones right Trevinho ?
<Trevinho> I think so willcooke
<willcooke> Trevinho, I think the bug scrubber script should be able to make light work of that, Trevinho you want to take a look?
<willcooke> or I can later on
<Trevinho> willcooke: i can do that, once I'm done with the 7.3.3 release and 7.4.0 branch preparation...
<willcooke> Trevinho, awesome, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, I see no issue moving all those over no
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> balloons, created at testing session in Summit :)
<balloons> willcooke, excellent, thank you
<balloons> should be a lively discussion
<seb128> Sweet5hark, is  libreoffice-dictionaries something we could perhaps sync from Debian?
<seb128> or is our version different?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: not sure, lemme have a look at it.
<Trevinho> all dark here...
 * Trevinho hates solar time
<seb128> yeah :-/
<larsu> what is it with people in this channel complaining about dst?
<seb128> larsu, we are complaining about winter!
<seb128> give us the summer back!
 * larsu gives seb128 summer back
<seb128> :-)
<Sweet5hark> larsu: did you just throw seb128 to the southern hemisphere for a summer experience?
<larsu> Sweet5hark: virtually, yes
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone
<Sweet5hark> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice-dictionaries/+bug/1510198
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1510198 in libreoffice-dictionaries (Ubuntu) "Rebase/Reimplement Ubuntu changes upon Debian (possibly upstream them)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<Trevinho> new libsigc++ causes FTB in unity... Damn it!
<Trevinho> (and probably nux as well)
<Trevinho> In xenial I mean...
<Trevinho> Anyway, things for tomorrow
<Trevinho> see you!
<willcooke> g'night all
<willcooke> sooo dark :((
<TheMuso> Morning all.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-27
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> good morning :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci !
<pitti> et toi ?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<pitti> j'ai me lÃ¨ve Ã  4h30 Ã  nouveau, mais nous allons dormir tÃ´t
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 ?
<seb128> pitti, oui, trÃ¨s bien ! et toi ? tu te lÃ¨ves tÃ´t :-/
<didrocks> re seb128
<didrocks> still sick (a little bit more than yesterdayâ¦)
<seb128> didrocks, :-(
<pitti> didrocks: erk -- again!?
<didrocks> pitti: well, last time, it was a month agoâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, but it lasted for two weeks, no?
<didrocks> pitti: no, a week. It lasted 2 weeks for larsu :p
<pitti> didrocks: get well soon then, and take it easy! *hug*
<pitti> didrocks: ah, ok -- ETOOMANYGERMSHERE :(
<seb128> no semi-marathon today!
<didrocks> seb128: already non yesterday :(
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> none*
<desrt> good morning fellow europeans
<desrt> ETOOMANYGERMANSHERE
<didrocks> hey desrt
<seb128> hey desrt
<hikiko> andyrock, Trevinho easy karma: https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.fixed-tests-wwarnings/+merge/275801 :D
<desrt> EUNRELIABLENETCONNECTION :(
 * desrt just sat here looking at her screen for the past 20 minutes thinking "sure is quiet in here this morning" before realising the connection had dropped
<seb128> desrt, :-(
<seb128> hey hikiko!
<seb128> but yeah, it's still a bit quiet at this time of the day
<hikiko> hi seb128 and desrt :)
<hikiko> and pitti and didrocks
<desrt> hello seb128 didrocks hikiko and pitti  :)
<hikiko> hello world
<desrt> \n
<hikiko> :D
<pitti> hey hikiko, hello desrt! how are you?
<desrt> my feet are a bit cold, but otherwise pretty good
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> good pitti you?
<pitti> hikiko: I'm great, thanks
<larsu> good morning!
<desrt> larsu: hi :D
<larsu> didrocks: dude I told you to get better yesterday!
<larsu> desrt: moring! how goes?
<desrt> bad
 * larsu just realized that he can't change brightness on the lock screen
<desrt> google keeps talking to me in german
<larsu> desrt: oh, sorry to hear. What's up?
<larsu> bah
<desrt> so i can't do anything useful
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<didrocks> larsu: well, EFAIL ;)
<larsu> desrt: I'm sure you can figure out where to search even when it's speaking to you in german
<larsu> didrocks: ya. Good morning in any case. Hope you get better
<desrt> i'm trying to deal with account stuff still
<larsu> seb128: hi! gut, danke. Had some beers with Laney and Rosie last night
<seb128> oh, nice
<larsu> how are you?
<seb128> what are they doing from their holidays?
<seb128> I'm good, thanks ;-)
<larsu> being tourists in Berlin :)
<larsu> seb128: do you have a hidpi screen?
<larsu> I guess you still didn't get that new laptop...
 * larsu needs a tester
<seb128> no I don't
<seb128> what's the issue?
<larsu> screenshots on hidpi
<larsu> were blurry
<larsu> fixed it yesterday
<larsu> patch accepted upstream, but I want someone to test
<larsu> (who is not me)
<seb128> unsure who in the team has one
<larsu> iain :)
<seb128> Laney but he's wandering in Berlin
<larsu> he's actually sleeping in the next room
<didrocks> larsu: thanks! I hope that as well :)
<seb128> borrow his laptop!
<larsu> I can put mine into hidpi and test myself
<larsu> I just want another set of eyes
 * larsu should wake him
<larsu> this. is. important.
<seb128> :-)
<desrt> larsu: hi to laney and rosie :)
<larsu> desrt: good timing. Half of them are already awake
<seb128> larsu, do you remember why we decided to hide the action/view menus in evince under unity? we add a menubar for hud/unity-panel/consistency purpose but we could keep the in-win UI unchanged no?
<Laney> hi friends!!!!!
<larsu> seb128: we did? Can't remember...
<larsu> Laney: good morning!
<seb128> hey Laney! how is Berlin?
<Laney> the evidence suggests that it is always sunny
<Sweet5hark> g'morning all
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> german wakes up
<Laney> yesterday we napped by the river
<pitti> hey Laney
<Laney> IN OCTOBER
<Laney> WHAT IS THIS
<seb128> haha
<Laney> hey pitti!
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> larsu, k, so no objection if I revert that I guess? ;-)
<larsu> seb128: nope
<larsu> hi Sweet5hark
<pitti> Laney: quite well, thanks! doing nothing else but juggling autopkgtests on all fronts (lcy01 demise, test regresssions, britney handholding, ppc64el cloud setup, etc. :) )
<pitti> Laney: how are you?
<seb128> larsu, I was looking at why evince prints some warning on start, it's because the code tries to use those widgets that we put in if (!ev_application_has_traditional_menus (EV_APP))
<larsu> seb128: oh?! New evince version and you applied the patch to that?
<seb128> larsu, right, but the warning were already there in wily
<larsu> werid
<seb128> try
<seb128> start evince
<larsu> ya
<seb128> (I assume there that you are still on wily ;-)
<larsu> yeah I see this. can have a look
<seb128> larsu, no, it's fine, I just did the change
<larsu> ah cool, thanks :)
<Sweet5hark> to make you feel more comfortable during the next sprint: https://plus.google.com/+KristianK%C3%B6hntopp/posts/WBkkaztzHRh
<Laney> pitti: good thanks, I'm on hoiliday in berlin atm & staying in larsu's place
<Laney> just came on to be a helpful soul and test a patch
<Laney> and because I missed you guys already of course :)
<pitti> Laney: ah, nice! doing some sightseeing, or just hanging out?
<Laney> bit of both
<Laney> been wandering around the last few days
<Laney> seeing the wall and museums and stuff
<larsu> ze wall, we call it here
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/g-s.png
<Laney> CRISP
<pitti> Laney: ah, did you go to the museum at Checkpoint Charlie?
<seb128> Laney, did you go to ze place for currywurst?
<Laney> pitti: We went to see that and an outside exhibition there but didn't go into the museum itself
<Laney> there was a bomb disposal going on at the same time which made the roads weirdly quiet, had a strange feel
<Laney> and we went to the East Side gallery which was fun to see
<Laney> seb128: not yet, although it it on every corner ;-)
<Laney> maybe today
<seb128> I though larsu said that there was one place
<seb128> ze place, owned by an old guy
<seb128> who opened whenever he wanted
<Laney> yeah this is a bit far out I think
<larsu> not that far
<Laney> o rly
<willcooke> morning all
<larsu> morning willcooke. did you get used to the new time? :P
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> larsu, I'm still struggling :) But babies just refusing to accept it
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<larsu> haha
<seb128> oh yeah, it's already that day
 * seb128 just saw the weekly meeting email
<Laney> ok, bye!
<Laney> happy meeting day
<larsu> bye Laney!
<didrocks> see you Laney!
<larsu> oh wait. Still around irl
<seb128> Laney, enjoy the sun and Berlin!
<desrt> seb128: same thought here :)
<seb128> desrt, about currywurst? ;-)
<desrt> about the tuesday thing
<desrt> but now i'm thinking about currywurst :)
<seb128> ah
<seb128> lol
 * desrt wonders if curry&more is open for late breakfast
<larsu> konnopke is open now
<desrt> that's a bit far
 * larsu just looked it up for his guests
<larsu> desrt: not really. U8 + 10 min walk
<desrt> + 16 to KÃ¶ln Hbf, plus ICE to berlin, plus S-Bahn to hackermarket to catch the U8
<desrt> but really, i suspect it would be more efficient to skip the U8
<larsu> in that case, go to alex and get the U2
<larsu> you'll be *right there*
<willcooke> didrocks, can Ubuntu Make create .desktop files for the user?
<didrocks> willcooke: it does already (since the beginning), why?
<didrocks> of course, not for command line things like Go
<didrocks> but for all ides, it does
<willcooke> didrocks, I figured it would do, that's cool. Just talking to Cadsoft, and I want to make sure we could create an icon etc etc
<didrocks> we don't create an icon, we target an icon they provide in their tarball
<didrocks> and set that to the desktop file
<willcooke> "create an icon" == "make an icon appear in the dash when I search for the application name"
<willcooke> didrocks, think like a manager ;D
 * willcooke goes back to his spreadsheet
<didrocks> :p
<didrocks> better telling it explicitely than implicitely :)
<Trevinho> morning
<willcooke> hey Trevinho - happy trails :)
<Trevinho> :)
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> Hi seb128
<hikiko> hello Trevinho
<hikiko> and willcooke
<willcooke> morning hikiko
<Trevinho> Uff, xenial doesn't love unityt
<seb128> oh? how so?
<Trevinho> seb128: there was a libsgc++ issue before (they removed sigc::group and sigc::_1 ...)
<Trevinho> seb128: then.... Now it doesn't link for some reason
<seb128> :-/
<Trevinho> ../../unity-shared/libunity-shared.a(WindowManager.cpp.o): In function `unity::WindowManager::Default()':
<Trevinho> /Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/unity-7.4.0+16.04.20151027/unity-shared/WindowManager.cpp:32: undefined reference to `unity::create_window_manager()'
<Trevinho> I fixed the libsgc stuff last night, but linking issue... mhmh weird
<Trevinho> willcooke: I completely missed your QA thread yesterday :o
<willcooke> Trevinho, it's not too late to get involved :D
<willcooke> but I think everything is going ok
<willcooke> I will hook up with Laney when he's back next week to talk about gating based on test results
 * seb128 grar, meeting in 10 minutes, thanks for email notifications I had totally forgotten
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> that reminds me....
<willcooke> add a hangout link to the meeting invite
<Trevinho> Bah.... compiles fine in my xenial lxc...
<willcooke> seb128, popey - be right there, just grabbing tea
<seb128> same here, grabbing water
<popey> kk
<seb128> larsu, didrocks, seems like indicator-sound regressed with the > 100% option, if I activate it the slider/notificaiton don't dynamically update for the new range
<seb128> do you get the issue as well?
<didrocks> seb128: it does for me, but I didn't update since the release, let me try
<didrocks> seb128: ah, the indicator slider I guess
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> and mouse wheel on it
<seb128> keys seem to work
<seb128> which suggests u-s-d works
<seb128> and notify-osd
<didrocks> seb128: indeed, the slider inside the indicator doesn't update, the rest works (including in g-c-c)
<seb128> indicator-sound regression I guess :-/
<seb128> we need to add that to the test plan
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for testing!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<Trevinho> uff... I can't get the same link error that there's in the PPA..
<seb128> Trevinho, you have proposed xenial-enabled?
<Trevinho> ehm?
<Trevinho> Ah, proposed repo in xenial?
<Trevinho> Mh let me see
<Trevinho> ops no..
<seb128> yeah, that's where most of the transitions are stacked
<seb128> so likely why
<Trevinho> there's not much new there, though
<Trevinho> just new binutils..
<seb128> that might be it
<Trevinho> yeah, it might be
<andyrock> morning all
<seb128> hey andyrock
<Trevinho> andyrock: we get /Â«BUILDDIRÂ»/unity-7.4.0+16.04.20151027.1/unity-shared/WindowManager.cpp:32: undefined reference to `unity::create_window_manager()' in xenial
<Trevinho> And I can't reproduce that in my LXC... -_-
<andyrock> mmm I'm not on xenial
<andyrock> I can setup a vm
<andyrock> not sure I want to update to xenial now
<andyrock> :D
<Trevinho> the weird thing is that it works in the LXC..
<Trevinho> No, no...
<andyrock> is there already an iso
<andyrock> or i need to install wily and upgrade?
<andyrock> found it
<Trevinho> andyrock: also fix that nux branch merge when you can
<willcooke> andyrock, good luck today :)
<andyrock> thank you :D
<greyback> desrt: larsu: hey guys, long time no speaky! Would either of you know if gnome3 intends to do shell-integrated menus on wayland?
<desrt> greyback: you mean like the app menu?
<desrt> it's already doing that today
<greyback> desrt: exactly
<desrt> there is a gtk wayland extension protocol for this stuff
<desrt> to publish the object paths in question, etc.
<greyback> desrt: perfect, what I needed to know, thanks!
<andyrock> Trevinho: which branch is not building?
<andyrock> just unity trunk?
<Trevinho> andyrock: I've fixed it I think
<andyrock> you made me install xenial
<andyrock> :(
<Trevinho> andyrock: you'll need it anyway :)
<Trevinho> andyrock: see https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/unity-7.4.0-bump/+merge/275746
<Trevinho> also the LauncherController change
<andyrock> "+1ed"
<andyrock> :D
<Trevinho> Nooo fail
<Trevinho> but in a test
<Trevinho> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/223199369/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.unity_7.4.0%2B16.04.20151027.2-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
 * Trevinho leaves... Has to fly to Stockholm...
<willcooke> cya Trevinho
<willcooke> have a great trip
<Trevinho> ta
<hikiko> good trip Trevinho :)
<willcooke> Trevinho, is this just waiting on an approval?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1508357
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1508357 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Tooltips have a black squares outside of its rounded corners" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> willcooke, it's fix commited, has been merged in the vcs, it's just waiting for an upload for gtk
<seb128> willcooke, do you want to see it landing sooner? we can do an upload only for that if needed
<willcooke> seb128, got it, thanks
 * willcooke updates the bug
<seb128> we should perhaps SRU that one to wily
<willcooke> yes please
<willcooke> I think we originally said we would 0 day SRU it
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I just uploaded ubuntu3/wily and ubuntu4/xenial. ubuntu4 does disable the stuff we didnt want to MIR. ubuntu4 is currently building at https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-staging/+packages
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great, thanks. Do you want to wait for that build to be done before uploading to the archive?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ubuntu3/wily should be good for SRU though.  http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/wily/5.0.2/libreoffice-l10n_5.0.2-0ubuntu3_source.changes http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/wily/5.0.2/libreoffice_5.0.2-0ubuntu3_source.changes
<Sweet5hark> for ubuntu4, I'd wait yeah.
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> hum, why is google calendar not telling you what changed in calendar change emails?!
<seb128> Desktop Team Weekly Meeting event modified
<seb128> thanks a lot google but how/what?
 * larsu is confused as well and decided to ignore
<larsu> who is google to tell ME when THE MEETING is
<seb128> I wonder if that's dst and 1 hour shift
<larsu> probably
<willcooke> wut
<willcooke> ondrraaaaaaaaaaa
 * willcooke ignores it as well
<willcooke> probably just a typo
<larsu> wut = anger in german
<willcooke> ha
<Sweet5hark> hmmmm
<seb128> who is ondra btw?
<seb128> and why is he changing our calendar?
<Sweet5hark> my dns resolution just fubared badly and I updated to wily today -- never happened before.
<willcooke> He works in phonedations, and I /think/ he clicked on the entry in the UES team calendar
<willcooke> lots of people out today
<seb128> oh?
<seb128> I though it was Laney only
 * larsu knows where Laney is
<larsu> actually I don't - other than "somewhere in Berlin"
<willcooke> we've got a combination of holiday, exams, travel, other general appointments
<seb128> oh ok, that was not in the monday news
 * seb128 is curious now
<willcooke> yeah, these are things which happened after the Monday news email got sent
<seb128> k k
<larsu> clearly we need Tuesday news as well
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 27 15:30:40 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic:
<qengho> Aiee!
<willcooke> larsu, Hourly news!
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock (out), attente, desrt,  dgadomski (out), didrocks, fjkong, happyaron, hikiko (out), laney (hols), larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho (out), robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> yep!
<larsu> on. the. minute.
<larsu> \o
<willcooke> We need some dramatic music
<larsu> ð
<qengho> http://sandbox.chad.org/shock-horror-three-note-sting-ringtone.mp3
<FJKong> å¥½
<larsu> oh, ubuntu mono doesn't have this. shame.
<attente> hey hey
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> * Reviews for Marco's branches
<willcooke> * Helping out with SRU (updating bugs, etc.)
<willcooke> * Try to figure out what's going on with GtkSettings and unity (if we
<willcooke> restart u-d-s we no longer get signals)
<willcooke> * Keep working on reboot dialog branch (I spent just a couple of hours
<willcooke> on it because of the other things to do)
<willcooke> * Help fixing some unstable tests we had on compiz (together with Marco)
<willcooke> * Upgrading to Wily (and fixing all the problems :D )
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: attente
<attente> short week due to swap days
<attente> uploaded more revisions to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756579
<ubot5> Gnome bug 756579 in Widget: GtkMenu "GTK should let GDK position menus" [Normal,New]
<attente> refreshed u-s-d java keyboard shortcuts ppa
<attente> currently debugging gtk touch events on the device
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: desrt
<seb128> no desrt it seems
<willcooke> she was here earlier, clock changes have won
<larsu> should be around
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: dgadomski
<willcooke> * prepared a debdiff for wily, vivid and trusty fixing bug #1337873
<willcooke> * analysing polkit communicating pam_vas - I was not able to find any documentation about enabling debug messages there, found out that I need to use env variables (G_DEBUG_MESSAGES=all for polkitd and POLKIT_DEBUG for polkit agents). Going to document it somewhere if it isn't already.
<willcooke> * I would appreciate letting me know if anybody noticed behaviour described in bug #1509369
<willcooke> * I'm going to have a closer look at bug #1308152, although it's expired I've heard a user complaining about something very similar. Need to confirm whether it's the same bug.
<ubot5> bug 1337873 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Precise, Trusty, Utopic - ifupdown initialization problems caused by race condition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337873
<ubot5> bug 1509369 in gdm (Ubuntu) "gdm runs in vt7 and gnome-shell in vt2 after resuming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509369
<ubot5> bug 1308152 in linux (Ubuntu) "Cant boot from kernel 3.13.0.24 after upgrade to ubuntu 14.04 LTS but able to boot with Kernel 3.11.0.20" [Low,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308152
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> ubuntu-make:
<didrocks> - continued and finished (hopefully) work to make the tests way more reliable, look at all this green: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/udtc-trusty-tests/ \o/ (the yellow 4 failures over 30*2*700 tests are network (client or server) issues).
<didrocks> - updated python-pexpect to take a dimension parameter helping in the stability in the udtc ppa. Didn't upload to xenial yet as we need to figure out the python2 support (some functions only compile on python3).
<didrocks> - final review and merged oijazsh's work on relocating by default paths to .local/share/umake instead of tools/.
<didrocks> - continued reviewing PR (force and back) for netbeans support.
<didrocks> - add a --version + some automation on autobumping to newer numbering. Support as well when running from git master via sha and dirty tags.
<didrocks> - bug management
<didrocks> misc:
<didrocks> - did quite a lot of iso testing for release, debugging u-s-d crash, raised some bugs.
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> (4 days week btw, was swapping)
<willcooke> I have spoken to legal and have got the paper work and have since spoken to Cadsoft and Fritzing, will keep you posted
<didrocks> thx!
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> only one line :
<FJKong> continue work on lib apng, for sogou IM new feature: support animate skin
<FJKong> in progress..
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> FJKong, I still haven't been back in to London to visit the hotel, I will see if someone in the office can do me a favour and pop over there!
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: happyaron
<FJKong> :p
<willcooke> #topic hikiko-lpt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: hikiko-lpt
<willcooke> I had a few days off these week, but so far: I am trying to figure out
<willcooke> which of the branches that Marco showed me at the sprint causes the
<willcooke> background update issues on Unity and blocks me with the ezoom
<willcooke> development. Also, I am reading the unity code to find the best way to
<willcooke> implement the generic shadows we discussed at the sprint +I started a
<willcooke> small program where I can load my shaders in order to test the visual
<willcooke> part of the algorithm in the meantime. Apart from that I've done some
<willcooke> minor fixes on nux and unity (mostly fixed syntax disamb. problems and
<willcooke> deprecated calls in tests to get rid of compiler warnings). EOF :
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> hey
<larsu> - blind patching unity-settings-daemon signal disconnection
<larsu> - fix taking screenhots on hidpi (upstream)
<larsu> - track down the dbus log spam when i-messages and accountsservice talk to each other
<larsu> - probably some other minor stuff I can't remember :/
<larsu> </larsu>
<willcooke> :) thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> - Adding autopkgtests, especially for Chromium translations changeover.
<qengho> - Debugging same translations change.
<qengho> - Tracking down a bug with default-browser setting. Varies by environment of course.
<qengho> - Will release Cr 45 once those are worked out.
<qengho> - Current laptop just broke! Shopping for new laptop. I know nothing about hardware any more. I like old Thinkpads. Help?
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> oh noez
<willcooke> Someone had a new TP at the sprint, right?
<willcooke> qengho, poke popey - he knows about these sorts of things
<qengho> ack
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ iso testing
<seb128> â¢ updated libmtp's apport hook so it works
<seb128> â¢ looked at u-s-d segfault in ubiquity mode, provided debug info and tested/landed fix from Lars
<seb128> â¢ fixed some other unity-settings-daemon issues (segfault on xsettings unload, warnings)
<seb128> â¢ reported upstream file-roller translation bug
<seb128> â¢ xenial fun, lot of merges&updates, spent some time refreshing the versions script info (new components which didn't have upstream details)
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> (help on merges and GNOME updates would be welcome)
<seb128> (seems not a lot of us are working on that atm)
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> please help out if you can folks ^^^
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
<seb128> thanks ;-)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - LibreOffice Hackfest
<Sweet5hark> - more code review and mentoring
<Sweet5hark> - uploaded 1:5.0.2-0ubuntu3/wily and 1:5.0.2-0ubuntu4/xenial
<Sweet5hark> -- latter disables coinmp/collada/gltf as we dont what to MIR those as per sprint
<Sweet5hark> - marketing coordination/events planning
<Sweet5hark> - upgrade to wily
<Sweet5hark> - prepared pbuilders/jenkins jobs for xenial
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Continued orca gsettings backend work, hope to have something for users to test by next week.
<willcooke> * Preparing merges/updates for Xenial, looking to update the a11y stack to the latest stable, and also considering putting in Pulse 7, although there may be a 7.1 coming out soon with some key fixes, so may wait.
<willcooke> * Helped Debian with packaging work for a11y stack updates.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Finished cups-browsed functionality to save user-changed option settings on generated print queues, to make the settings permanent when cups-browsed is removing this queues when the remote printer disappears and generating them again when the printer re-appears.
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Started working on possibility to define option default settings in the cups-browsed.conf file.
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Added possibility to define option default settings in the cups-browsed.conf file.
<tkamppeter> - Ubuntu Phone: mpt is back, trying to talk with him.
<mpt> o/
<tkamppeter> ^^Update
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter  :)
<willcooke> wb mpt
<tkamppeter> mpt has answered on #ubuntu-design now, too
<tkamppeter> all at the same time.
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke> Â· Trusty SRU proposed (and prepared the whole list of bugs with andyrock)
<willcooke> Â· Unity side of mouse pointer HiDPI scaling support
<willcooke> Â· Gtk+3 patch for rgba tooltips
<willcooke> Â· Close shutdown dialog on lock request (when laptop lid is closed)
<willcooke> Â· Meeting with Kylin guys
<willcooke> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Kylin/Meeting/2015/20151022)
<willcooke> Â· Fixed warning in unity-panel-service not properly resetting an Idle
<willcooke> Â· Released Unity 7.3.3
<willcooke> Â· Prepared wily / xenial branches for unity, compiz and bamf
<willcooke> Â· Landing of new unity, compiz and bamf in xenial (unity FTB for
<willcooke> libsic++ changes)
<willcooke> î¿î¿î¿
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Update XMir for overlay PPA
<willcooke> - GNOME 3.18 updates for xenial
<willcooke> - Simple scan 3.19.1 released
<willcooke> - LightDM fixes / merges
<willcooke> #toipic desrt
<larsu> *toypic
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> sorry.  net connection here is unreliable and my ssh connection died without me realising it so i was waiting for the meeting ping and it never came :)
<desrt> - working on some hardware-assisted bounds-checked arithmetic helpers for glib
<desrt> - adding support to GBytes for ranged-checked memory accesses
<desrt> - fending off bug backlog
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-10-27 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> I'm off tomorrow and Friday and Monday
<willcooke> \o/
<desrt> lol.  i thought we hired a newbie called AOB and i missed the memo.
<desrt> willcooke: any particular reason?
<larsu> http://fun.familyeducation.com/images/Mr_Potato_Head_toy_H.jpg
<willcooke> desrt, holiday
<desrt> larsu: the new guy?
<larsu> desrt: toipic
<larsu> actually the first result for toypic
<desrt> ouch.
<desrt> you responded to willcooke's request by toipic'ing me
<desrt> ...
<seb128> thanks everyone
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy the days off work!
<willcooke> any more for any more
<willcooke> thanks seb128  :)
<attente> what's a "hardware-assisted bounds-checked arithmetic helper?"
 * desrt 's got nothin'
<didrocks> thanks
<desrt> attente: oh... not as fancy as it sounds
<larsu> attente: it's in glib!
<desrt> basically just using the hardware flags field to detect the overflow case
<desrt> since this bit gets set if int math overflows, but it's not possible to check it from C
<desrt> clang has had some intrinsics for this for a while, and GCC5 added them too
<attente> oh cool
<willcooke> oki, ending meeting, please carry on though
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 27 15:51:10 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-10-27-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<desrt> attente: basically got tired of open-coding that 100 times every time we wrote some new file format parser
<desrt> and trying to make sure we did it right
<attente> yeah, makes sense
<desrt> the conceptual logic for how those instructions work is nice
<desrt> it casts both values to an infinite precision signed integer space, does the operation and stores the value back to the destination
<desrt> it then returns whether the stored value is equal to the infinite-precision value or not
<desrt> random aside: anyone have experience getting pulse working in a chroot?  the interweb suggest that bindmounting the system bus socket is enough but it seems not to do the trick here
<willcooke> desrt, this might help:  https://www.stgraber.org/2014/02/09/lxc-1-0-gui-in-containers/
<didrocks> I was going to direct you to stgraber directly :)
<desrt> hmm.  this looks handy :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I came across it just the other day
<desrt> i'm trying to containerise all of my non-free stuff
<desrt> ...like hangouts
<willcooke> oh, cool
<willcooke> thats a nice idea
<sethj> this old bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1040158) looks like it was superseded by this newer one https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1445595. Close as duplicate?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1040158 in unity (Ubuntu) "Empty trash from Launcher changes focus to Nautilus" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1445595 in unity (Ubuntu) "Empty trash from Launcher results in Nautilus window opening" [High,Triaged]
<sethj> or invalid?
<willcooke> sethj, can you mark #1040158 as being a dupe of #1445595 (even though it's newer it has more info)
<sethj> willcooke, yup! That's what we'd do on Ask Ubuntu, but I didn't know if the same applied here ;D
<sethj> and done.
<willcooke> thanks sethj
<sethj> that actually seems like it would be a fun bug to try and fix..
<willcooke> Trevinho has done some digging there, so if you're interested in taking a look he can probably assist, but he's travelling atm
<sethj> willcooke, cool! I'm not at all familiar with the Unity source, but you have to start somewhere ;)
<willcooke> :)
<andyrock> back home \o/
<willcooke> andyrock, how did you get on?
<andyrock> not sure, pretty bad I think :D
<andyrock> but enough to pass
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> yay!
 * andyrock does not like statistic
<popey> Sweet5hark, yo! I have created two PPAs, debug and stable so that i can keep stable and debug builds of LO around for testing docviewer...
<popey> Sweet5hark, you mentioned maybe having a higher point release than 5.0.1 for me at some point of the minimal build.. ? :)
<Sweet5hark> popey: well, yeah -- could give you a 5.0.2 still then again 5.0.3.2 (which is likely final) is already tagged upstream
<didrocks> have a good evening!
<popey> Sweet5hark, whatever is newer than 5.01 :)
<popey> doesn't seem like any point doing 5.0.2 really
<willcooke> attente, did I give you a usb -> hdmi connector?
<willcooke> for a nexus 4
<attente> willcooke: yes, do you need it back?
<willcooke> attente, nah, I can get a new one.  I've been looking for it in my "Big Box Of Bits" for 10 mins before I realised :)
<Sweet5hark> popey: yep, will do 5.0.3 and tweak my jenkins to have a job for it.
<attente> ah, ok
<popey> Sweet5hark, nice one, thanks
<popey> willcooke, I got an HDMI to VGA adapter today, means I can use projectors for giving talks where they have no HDMI :D
<popey> phone -> hdmi slimport -> vga -> screen
<popey> \o/
<willcooke> yilkes!
<willcooke> Good luck with that, I fear you'll need it ;)
<popey> It works
<willcooke> wow!
<popey> http://imgur.com/FESuel1
<popey> via VGA
<willcooke> awesome!!
<qengho> popey: What's the awesomest laptop these days? Optimize for not huge, and good wifi.
<popey> Top of my list is Thinkpad X250 and the new Dell XPS 13 broadwell..
<qengho> popey: Thank you!
<Sweet5hark> popey, qengho: what about a lenovo T450s in that comparison?
<popey> That's also on the list.
<popey> I think cjwatson has one of them.
<popey> https://twitter.com/colmmacuait/status/647726243115307008
<popey> confirmed :)
<Sweet5hark> popey: thanks for that intel on cjwatson ;)
<popey> heh
<Sweet5hark> popey, qengho: T450s with i7 and 20GB RAM would be my choice, if I had to buy a new workhorse tomorrow.
<popey> Says the guy who builds libreoffice locally for a living ;)
<sarnold> hehe :)
<qengho> I also crunch big projects. :\
<Sweet5hark> hrhr.
 * Sweet5hark uses notebooks as dual-use weapons: to compile and to heat the room
<Sweet5hark> winter is coming.
<popey> Laundry won't dry itself! Come here make -j 12 !
<Sweet5hark> popey: careful, OOM killer coming your way: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/blob/master/RepositoryModule_host.mk#L166
<popey> ugh
<willcooke> alrighty, bugging out.  G'night all - see you on Thursday
<Laney> you people need to use the iceland trick if meeting times are confusing you :-)
 * Laney got a sms reminder at the right time
<Laney> and then LAUGHED at you ALL
<mdeslaur> who owns the gdrive scope?
<mdeslaur> seb128: do you know?
<davidcalle_afk> mdeslaur, Unity API team? I don't wish them to inherit old scopes but afaik, it's unmaintained
<mdeslaur> davidcalle: hrm, thanks
<sarnold> davidcalle: is there a list of scopes that -are- maintained?
<davidcalle> sarnold, I don't know, willcooke might have a better answer to this
<sarnold> dang, wish I'd though to ask an hour ago :) heh, thanks
<davidcalle> (and the API team as well, some main scopes (eg files, apps) are actively maintained by them)
<tyhicks> davidcalle: you're not maintaining any of the scopes?
<mhall119> seb128: what sessions can the desktop team run for UOS?
<mhall119> bregma: can you do a session about libertine/puritine?
<bregma> mhall119, I don't think Libertine is really in a state where it's ready for public consumption, and Puritine is a really limited solution to a specific demand
<bregma> maybe I could do a session on what we want Libertine to be when it grows up, but I don't want to build expectations too early
<mhall119> bregma: there's a lot of questions about if/how we're going to support desktop apps people are currently using in the confined/converged future of Ubuntu, so a sessoin that just talks about the challenges and plans would be nice to have
<bregma> mmm, I suppose
<Noskcaj> Is it ok to add a gnupg2 build-dep to seahorse when merging? It builds without it in debian, but not in ubuntu. https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/seahorse/3.18/+merge/275917
<qengho> Noskcaj: that's because gnupg is part of the base devel package set, I guess, and Ubuntu wishes to use gnupg2 instead?
<Noskcaj> makes sense
<sarnold> it might be worth poking the debian folks if they want gnupg2 too, iirc gnupg2 is required for ecc keys..
<qengho> Noskcaj: I like the idea of getting Debian to change too. I think it's okay to merge that with 2 now, and letting Debian catch up in their 3.18.0-3 .
<qengho> "letting" means asking, filing a bug report, and attaching the patch that does it for them.
<Noskcaj> debian already depends on gnupg2, and something else is pulling it in for the buildder there
<qengho> All: my broken laptop sensed your suggestions for replacement and started working again, hours later. Thanks. Intimidation works.
<qengho> Noskcaj: Hrm, that's weird. Maybe Ubuntu is behind somewhere.  :(
<Noskcaj> i'll look into it more when i get back from school today, hopefully someone can sponsor in the meantime
<Laney> Pretty sure we would want to move over to gpg2 all the way
<Laney> xnox wanted to look into that
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gpgme1.0/+changelog seems to be the issue
<Noskcaj> for some reason i was think the gpg2 transition got finished when i was still around at the start of wily
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-28
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I've got orca covered if you haven't already.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, cool, was leaving it for you
<TheMuso> Cool, that sees the a11y stack all up to date then.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<desrt> good morning desktop!
<desrt> pitti, didrocks: hello!
<pitti> hey desrt!
<didrocks> hey desrt! ;)
<didrocks> oh pitti, you were around, morning!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: le rhume est montÃ© au nez maintenant, mais Ã§a va
<didrocks> pitti: et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci ! nous avons eu un bon concert hier soir, "American Cajun and Bluez FestivalL"
<didrocks> pitti: super, c'Ã©tait loin de chez vous ?
<pitti> didrocks: non, seulement dix minutes Ã  marcher
<didrocks> ah, en effet, pas loin ;)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey desrt pitti didrocks
<desrt> hey seb128
<didrocks> re seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<darkxst> hey seb128 pitti desrt
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> how is the piloting going?
<darkxst> seb128, the queue is a little empty (for what I have rights for), but clearing out a couple of the older ones
<seb128> if you don't have rights you can still review/have needsfixing comments
<seb128> or even if you review and ack it might be useful and spare some work for somebody who has upload rights
<desrt> good morning, darkxst
<darkxst> seb128, will do
<seb128> thanks
<darkxst> seb128, is there much point doing sru's into vivid now?
<seb128> not really no
<darkxst> I didnt think so, and bug 1461573, doesnt really seem that critical
<ubot5> bug 1461573 in python-tempest-lib (Ubuntu) "[SRU] trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/skip-tracker', which is also in package python-tempest-lib" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461573
<seb128> right
 * desrt lives more and more of her life inside of a web browser
<seb128> darkxst, does adwaita replaces g-i-t-symbolic?
<seb128> bug #1510819
<ubot5> bug 1510819 in evince (Ubuntu) "Xenial: evince (3.18.1-1ubuntu1) depends on gnome-icon-theme-symbolic while gnome-shell (3.18.1-1ububtu1) depends on adwaita-icon-theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510819
<Trevinho> Morning
<darkxst> seb128, yes
<seb128> darkxst, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, hey! how are you?
<darkxst> seb128, with the new gtk, those deps shouldnt be needed, since it will be pulled in by gtk+
<seb128> what about those not using adwaita?
<seb128> does adwaita install symbol icons in gnome or hicolor?
<darkxst> seb128, they get the split a-i-t
<darkxst> seb128,  they are in adwaita-icon-theme-full
<seb128> which is not installed by default on Ubuntu
<darkxst> seb128, correct
<darkxst> seb128, actually that was in 3.16 also, so ok to just drop any g-i-t deps
<seb128> darkxst, well, g-i-t-symbolic install icons in the "gnome" theme which is used as a fallback for the unity themes
<seb128> where adwaita installs it in Adwaita
<seb128> so an unity user wouldn't get those icons as fallback
<seb128> no?
<seb128> or we would need to make humanity inherits adwaita
<seb128> but that feels wrong since they have different styles
<darkxst> seb128, adwaita-icon-theme is the fallback icons
<seb128> where?
<seb128> I though gnome/hicolor were the fallbacks?
<darkxst> that not_in_humity.txt file that collects icons ubuntu wants
<darkxst> ^humanity even
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, ok... In the cold sweeden with andyrock :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, have fun there! I hope it changes your mind a bit ;-)
<seb128> darkxst, sorry, that's not what I mean
<seb128> if you use Humanity gtk is going to look in the active theme directory
<seb128> e.g Humanity
<seb128> and in the fallbacks
<seb128> gnome, hicolor
<seb128> but it's not going to pick icons from other themes like Adwaita
<seb128> is it?
<seb128> or is Adwaita having a special status in gtk itself that makes it override theme fallbacks choices?
<didrocks> Trevinho: you don't need sun, you have andyrock next to you, he is going to lighten your day ;)
<darkxst> seb128, I think gtk+ will check the Adwaita folder before gnome, but not 100% sure
<darkxst> and symbolic icons are probably shared between the two?
<seb128> well, my point is that if we uninstall g-i-i-symbolic we loose the /usr/share/icons/gnome/.../blah-icon.svg
<seb128> having the /usr/share/icons/Adwaita/.../blah-icon.svg helps us only if Humanity picks things in the adwaita directory
<seb128> which is against the spec
<seb128> icon themes lookup are supposed to be "current theme -> inherited ones -> hicolor"
<darkxst> there aren't even any hicolor icons in g-i-t-s
<seb128> yeah, but we inherits "gnome"
<seb128> which is where g-i-t-s ships its icons
<seb128> oh, in fact somebody changes that to be Adwaita
<seb128> I guess Laney did
<seb128> so yeah, we should be alright then
<seb128> well, humanity is
<seb128> unsure about e.g xubuntu
<seb128> darkxst, do you plan a g-c-c upload? we need at least a no change rebuild for the cheese soname change
<darkxst> seb128, yes need to do the merge for gnome-desktop and g-c-c
<seb128> that sounds like it might take some days, maybe we should do the no change rebuild first?
<darkxst> hopefully noskcaj will do the first tonight, and I'll be able to upload them both tomorrow
<seb128> ok
<Noskcaj> done
<seb128> no abi change this time?
<darkxst> seb128, no, gnome-desktop was light on changes this cycle
<seb128> good
<darkxst> also g-s-d merge is done in -desktop branch
<seb128> great
<seb128> darkxst, is bug #1510830 known? I can't reproduce but I wonder if it's Ubuntu GNOME specific?
<ubot5> bug 1510830 in gnome-calendar (Ubuntu) "gnome-calendar segfaults on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510830
<darkxst> seb128, only because mgedmin just pinged me about it, about to test in a VM
<seb128> k
<darkxst> Noskcaj, branch/
<seb128> it's ranked medium high on e.u.c and supposed to be fixed in 3.18
<seb128> I couldn't reproduce on my system though so I didn't look at it more before wily
<Noskcaj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3/+bug/1510813
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1510813 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.18.1" [Wishlist,In progress]
<darkxst> seb128, 3.18 will be build-dep on e-d-s 3.18 probably which is in NEW
<seb128> oh, I saw that robert uploaded but didn't think about NEW
<seb128> looking to NEW it now
<darkxst> seb128, ! e-d-s always has soname bumps, many even!
<seb128> yeah, I just saw that some of the release team members were active on the queue and NEWing things as they come atm
<seb128> darkxst, you can't upload adwaita? just saw it in the sponsoring queue
<darkxst> seb128, its marked core-dev for some reason
<darkxst> Noskcaj, thanks, will look at it now
<andyrock> good morning!
<larsu> good morning!
<darkxst> Noskcaj, did you check that no rdeps use GNOME_RR_DPMS_DISABLED?
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> hey larsu
<didrocks> hey larsu, andyrock
<Noskcaj> no sorry, i'll check in the morning.
<darkxst> Noskcaj, also you attached to identical diffs to the bug, was there meant to be a ubuntu to debian diff?
<Noskcaj> i didn't make one, the double wasn't intentional
<seb128> larsu, do you remember what was the status of the gedit update previous cycle? blocked on toolbar decisions? could we just get it ready and upload without that and sort out later if needed?
<larsu> seb128: yes
<larsu> seb128: that and rgba headerbar windows
<larsu> well, that was the decision we have to make
<seb128> where was the current work stored?
<seb128> if I want to give it a try
<larsu> good question
<larsu> I guess this? https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gedit/update-316
<seb128> danke
<seb128> darkxst, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/223256059/adwaita-i-t.debdiff
<seb128> darkxst, what's the second chunk in the changelog? adding an empty line under older entries
<darkxst> seb128, a bug in dpkg-mergechangelogs perhaps?
<seb128> darkxst, k, I can drop it then?
<darkxst> seb128, sure, I didnt add it!
<popey> Ooh, 'pretty french thing of the day' goes to bibliothÃ¨que interuniversitaire sorbonne - http://a2.format-assets.com/image/private/s--uV9Awriw--/c_limit,g_center,h_65535,w_2500/a_auto,fl_keep_iptc.progressive,q_95/FB_HouseOfBooks_011_osg8pi.jpg
<seb128> popey, :-)
<darkxst> seb128, I see the same think in Noskcaj's gnome-desktop diff, but when applied there is no extra line, strange....
<seb128> darkxst, weird indeed
<darkxst> seb128, no packaging branch for gnome-desktop3?
<seb128> darkxst, seems not
<darkxst> seb128, looks fine to me, has a soname bump but only for new symbols, I'll just upload and deal with the transition tomorrow ;)
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> we should try to get some of those transitions through then
<seb128> e-d-s, cheese, libgtop
<seb128> poppler
<seb128> quite some things started
<xnox> Laney: we have not yet transitioned to gpg2.
<darkxst> seb128, that kinda going to happen when most of 3.18 lands in a week or so!
<seb128> xnox, he's on holidays this week
<seb128> darkxst, right, maybe we should not land everything but finish things before moving to the next one
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, how is the libreoffice for xenial update going?
<darkxst> seb128, for the gnome ones, its probably easier to tangle them up together, maybe...
<seb128> darkxst, sort of, cheese would have migrated easily, it has like 6 rdepends
<seb128> if it's tangled with e.g e-d-s or poppler it couples things like libreoffice to it
<seb128> so for cheese or control center to migrate you need libreoffice now
<darkxst> seb128, feel free to reject gnome-desktop3 upload and do a nochange rebuild of g-c-c instead if it helps
<darkxst> but poppler tangled up in that also?
<seb128> I can also keep it in binNEW until we want to deal with it
<seb128> but yeah, we already have things stacked with e-d-s and poppler
<darkxst> seb128, ok, leave it in binNEW for now then I guess
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: heya
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: xenial finished building -- just installing my xenial VM for smoketesting
<Laney> xnox: I said you wanted to do it not that you did
<Sweet5hark1> hmmm, virtualbox fails to start any VM for me now that I am on wily.  known issue?
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: even server vm? I didn't try a client one, but headless does work for me
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: well, it errors out for me before I even have a VM window. "The virtual machine 'wily64' has terminated unexpectedly during startup with exit code 1 (0x1)."
<Sweet5hark1> NS_ERROR_FAILURE (0x80004005)
<didrocks> waow
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, check for the kernel modules
<xnox> Laney: correct. I agreed with such statement =)
<ricotz> better install vbox-dkms package since the integrated modules in the kernel are outdated
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: hmm, indeed no vboxdrv in lsmod.
<Sweet5hark1> urgh "ERROR (dkms apport): kernel package linux-headers-3.13.0-36-generic is not supported"
<dholbach> hey hey
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: 3.13.0-36? you should autoremove :)
<dholbach> do we have any current reports about X crashing in wily?
<dholbach> mine crashed 2 times today already
<didrocks> I had a lot of X crashes on intel, the driver was fixed. I still have some once a week
<didrocks> did you look at e.u.c?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hehe, you piled up at bunch of ancient kernels over the time?
<didrocks> ricotz: his /boot is properly a gig now :)
<dholbach> didrocks, there's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1237904 but that's not it
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1237904 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in OsAbort()" [Medium,Fix released]
<ricotz> didrocks, maybe even more ;)
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: autoremove doesnt do anything. even more interesting, uname says Im even running 3.13.0-36-generic ...
<ricotz> kernel are not autoremoved
<dholbach> maybe it's https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/3115b3a539889f9f1b701de0ef35d3c9e60c3280?
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: what? :p
<didrocks> ricotz: if you only use apt, apt-get autoremove --purge will autoremove them
<ricotz> didrocks, I guess only the headers?
<didrocks> ricotz: nope, kernel as well
<didrocks> they are marked auto by apt
<ricotz> ah ok
 * ricotz didnt ran into this yet
<didrocks> dholbach: yeah, that was my first crash, the second one is way more random to me, maybe try to get a backtrace?
<dholbach> didrocks, it's not easy - it happens right out of the blue
<didrocks> dholbach: yeah, but then, you have the .crash, right?
<didrocks> so install symbols, retraceâ¦
<didrocks> (that's what I did for the intel one)
<dholbach> ok, I'll try
<dholbach> I just have like 5 other things I need to do before
<didrocks> dholbach: do not hesitate if you need any help
<dholbach> thanks
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks, ricotz: so I only have a vmlinuz-3.13.0-36-generic in /boot and no newer kernel. This is weird. At least /etc/apt/sources/list has wily everywhere, I wonder how I dont get a newer kernel ....
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: linux-image-generic is installed?
<didrocks> this is what points to latest kernel
 * Sweet5hark1 manually updates to 4.2 now manually.
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: well, ensure this package is installed ^
<didrocks> otherwise, you will be blocked then on 4.2
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: nope, it wasnt.
<didrocks> here you go :p
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: hehe, thx
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: you prefer old good kernels, which had the time to mature a little bit, like old wine, I see :)
<didrocks> yw!
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: hehe, well there is some truth to that.
<didrocks> :p
 * Sweet5hark1 wonders if he will be back with the new kernel ... or stalling somewhere because it doesnt work with the "interesting" nvidia optimus setup on this machine.
 * Sweet5hark1 reboots
<Sweet5hark> upgraded kernel, reinstalled virtualbox-dkms, virtualbox seems to work now ...
<Sweet5hark> didrocks, ricotz: thx ;)
<didrocks> nice! \o/
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, good, now you can grab 5.0.3~rc2 :P
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: I already kicked of the build of tarballs over night ...
<seb128> dholbach, having a bt would be useful
<seb128> dholbach, I didn't have an xorg segfault in years here
<didrocks> lucky you :)
<seb128> on none of my boxes
<seb128> I guess unlucky you, e.u.c doesn't show an high trend
<seb128> likely specific to some video cards, you both have thinkpad, could be a standard one on those
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, :)
<didrocks> well, mostly because we fixed the biggest one I guess
<didrocks> yeah, I guess
<didrocks> I "just" have it once a week approx
<seb128> do you have a bt?
<didrocks> but last retrace was unhelpful
<didrocks> corrupted bt
<seb128> intel driver upstream is usually good at addressing bugs when they are forwarded to fdo
<seb128> :-(
<didrocks> yeah, and since then, we updated the intel driver after the bisect
<didrocks> and I didn't get one (so for 2 weeks now)
<seb128> k, so maybe it's fixed :-)
<Trevinho> Finally unity loves xenial...
<seb128> oh, was it the new binutils?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, a cmake file was not mentioning the right lib... It worked locally (and before) but not in ppa
<seb128> do you know why it worked locally?
<Trevinho> No... Maybe some caching...
<dholbach> didrocks, hum... how do I set up the sandbox for apport-retrace?
<dholbach> why does it not automatically set it up?
<dholbach> I hope with codename and sources.list it's happy now :)
<didrocks> dholbach: I mostly retrace on my machine manually, I didn't use the sandbox for quite a while, maybe pitti or seb128 would know if --help doesn't :)
<pitti> dholbach: it actually does, if you use the "Examine locally..." button and select the option with sandbox
<dholbach> pitti, ok... I was trying this out from just running apport-retrace
<dholbach> thanks for the tip
<pitti> dholbach: you can do that as well
<pitti> dholbach: -S system
<dholbach> I tried that
<pitti> dholbach: but for that you need to have ddeb apt sources enabled
<dholbach> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: u'sb/Ubuntu 15.10/sources.list'
<pitti> if you don't have that, you need to point it to some actual configuration
<pitti> dholbach: then you used -S sb
<dholbach> right, I did that
<dholbach> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12989352/
<pitti> check out http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/apport/lp-retracer-config into "sb" then :)
<pitti> dholbach: "-S system" will use your host's apt config
<pitti> (as I said, for that to work you need ddebs.u.c. apt source)
<pitti> I mean "system" quite literally, it's a magic value
<dholbach> oh ok :)
<dholbach> I didn't know
<pitti> everything else is a path with the config files as in the above bzr branch (you can use that unmodified, it's what we use in production too)
<dholbach> thanks a lot pitti
<Sweet5hark> seb128: both ubuntu3/wily ubuntu4/xenial passed smoketesting, so feel free to sponsor.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great, thanks
<seb128> I did sponsor the SRU before lunch
<seb128> doing the xenial one next
<Sweet5hark> seb128: awesome, thanks
<dholbach> seb128, didrocks: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12989442/
 * Sweet5hark prepares 5.0.3 updates, 4.4.6~rc3/vivid today -- and later will look at libreoffice-5.1.0~alpha1 for the prereleases ppa.
<dholbach> seb128, didrocks: but I'm not sure if that's actually the crash I'm seeing - two times X crashed while I was working on something - so it wasn't during a shutdown as bug 1237904 suggests
<ubot5> bug 1237904 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in OsAbort()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237904
<seb128> dholbach, your backtrace/bug is quite different from the one you listed
<dholbach> oops, yes - you're right
<seb128> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/67526ca76c90e73ebb6a6774e6e6b0dda99f2428
<seb128> is yours
<seb128> can you report it on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=xorg
<dholbach> will do
<seb128> they might ask for details on the videocard and such so better if somebody having access to the card file it
<seb128> thanks
<tjaalton> that's intel driver issue
<seb128> tjaalton, right, those are files under the xorg product no?
<tjaalton> dholbach: you could try the new xenial pkg, should work fine in wily
<tjaalton> seb128: oh, indeed
<tjaalton> but if it's on lp I can ask ickle to have a look
<tjaalton> but if not -> b.fd.o
<seb128> well you can click "create a bug" from the e.u.c page pointed before
<seb128> that would be a good idea in any case
<dholbach> tjaalton, seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xorg-server/+bug/1510941
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1510941 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/Xorg:6:copy_overlap:sna_render_copy_boxes__overlap:gen7_render_copy_boxes:__sna_dri2_copy_region:dri2_copy_region" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> I linked the upstream bug
<seb128> dholbach, thanks
<tjaalton> dholbach: so try the xenial pkg next, it's a new git snapshot..
<dholbach> ok...
<dholbach> brb
<dholbach> tjaalton, hum... apparently the bug is already fixed? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91120
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 91120 in Driver/intel "[HD Graphics 2000] [xf86-video-intel version 1:2.99.917+364+gb24e758-1] Crash inside intel_dri.so" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<tjaalton> we have that commit
<dholbach> which is bizarre
<dholbach> yes
<tjaalton> he's just wrong
 * tjaalton back in 10
<dholbach> git20150808 > Jun 27
<dholbach> tjaalton, I followed up on the bug
<tjaalton> good
<mhall119> bregma: was that a yes on giving a UOS session about how we're going to support legacy apps? If so, can you propose it to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/propose_meeting/ on the Convergence track?
<bregma> mhall, sure
<mhall119> seb128: desrt Laney would the desktop team like to do a 16.04 planning session at UOS next week to discuss what your goals and work items are?
<mhall119> thanks bregma
<dholbach> tjaalton, he pointed out https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91658
 * desrt looks at seb128
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 91658 in Driver/intel "Xorg segfault during video playback" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<tjaalton> dholbach: yes, so try xenial pkg
<dholbach> tjaalton, yes, I installed it already
<seb128> mhall119, Laney is on holidays this week
<seb128> desrt, what?
<mhall119> seb128: and will is out today too right?
<seb128> mhall119, correct
<didrocks> (and Friday)
<desrt> seb128: was just wondering what your thoughts on this topic were since i don't have much of an opinion about it
<seb128> desrt, oh, the ping from mhall119? I didn't even see you were pinged there :p
<seb128> mhall119, unsure if that's useful, we already defined those things there is not much to discuss
<mhall119> seb128: well it would be useful to the community knowing what has been defined and possibly how they can contribute towards it
<larsu> do we have a packaging branch for accountsservice?
 * larsu is building from apt-get source but is too dumb for all of this
<bregma> so we discovered a pretty bad problem in gobject-introspection 1.46 (recently uploaded to xenial):  support added for MSVC causes it to fail to build a lot of stuff on Ubuntu
<bregma> is this a known problem?
<larsu> a lot of stuff?
<bregma> larsu, any project that doesn't have a GObject when using g-ir-scanner will FTBFS on Ubunbu, and probably Debian
<bregma> larsu, it's  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699442 come back
<ubot5> Gnome bug 699442 in general "g-ir-scanner fails when no symbols used in dumper" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> mhall119, well I guess check with willcook tomorrow if he's interested to lead one?
<seb128> larsu, no packaging branch no, apt-get source; debuild
<mhall119> seb128: ok
<seb128> bregma, check with pitti maybe he is (was?) co-upstream for that
<larsu> seb128: ya that's what I've been doing
<seb128> larsu, what's the issue with it?
<larsu> seb128: got fed up copying patches around. it's fine really
<larsu> just thought I could have an easier life ;)
<seb128> hack on upstream git or whatever
<seb128> and copy the patch over once you are done
<larsu> yep :)
<Trevinho> andyrock: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/indicator-appmenu/use-bamf-0.5.2/+merge/276014
<andyrock> Trevinho ð ð ð
<Trevinho> andyrock: ð«
<ricotz> Trevinho, 0.5.2~ < 0.5.2
<Trevinho> mh, ouch
<ricotz> isn't 0.5.1 enough anyway
<Trevinho> Well, since it wasn't released i used it as prefix
<Trevinho> iirc
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/bamf/0.5/0.5.1/+download/bamf-0.5.1.tar.gz
<Trevinho> I mean 0.5.2
<ricotz> ah ok, this isnt even included in bamf itself yet
<ricotz> Trevinho, is there really a soname bump needed?
<Trevinho> ricotz: I'd say yes.. API has been updated, I want to make sure things are linked to the proper version
<ricotz> adding API doesnt require a soname bump
<ricotz> (doing so without a need just prevents backports)
<ricotz> Trevinho, so please dont do this
<ricotz> if you need to change the public class struct you can make use of the available padding fields
<ricotz> e.g. "void (*_matcher_padding1) (void);"
<Trevinho> ricotz: yeah I know, but I don't see a reason for backports here...
<ricotz> which isnt even the case here ..., which is the quite the only reason to bump since this would actually break *ABI*
<ricotz> adding API is perfectly fine
<ricotz> Trevinho, still it is a useless transition, and trusty is still there and could gain it
<ricotz> please revert the bump
<Trevinho> ricotz: mh well... Not sure (as per other previous changes), but reverting that would cause more annoyance than gains I think
<ricotz> you released 0.5.1 and since then nothing happened
<ricotz> or do you think something has altered the ABI before that?
<qengho> Is willcooke online today?
<didrocks> qengho: no, he's away today and friday (see his monday email)
<qengho> didrocks: Ah, thx.
<Trevinho> ricotz: no, nothing changed before.... I've reverted the change... Although it causes me to rebuild indicaor-appmenu and unity as well, but that's fine....
<ricotz> Trevinho, alrighty
<didrocks> have a good night everyone!
<mhall119> qengho: ping
<mhall119> qengho: Would you be able to give a ~50 presentation on Ubuntu desktop (use, development, future plans, whatever) at UbuCon in Orlando on the 19th?
<qengho> mhall119: hrm, I don't think I'd be very good.
<qengho> mhall119: if "~50" is 50 seconds, yes.
<mhall119> heh, no, sorry, they are minutes :)
<mhall119> qengho: could you do a shorter one, like a lightning talk?
<sethj> Trevinho, I'm digging into https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1445595 hoping to (maybe) fix it. Will said you had done some looking at it too and might be able to give me a few pointers. I already have something of an idea what is happening, but anything you could add would be great!
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1445595 in unity (Ubuntu) "Empty trash from Launcher results in Nautilus window opening" [High,Triaged]
<qengho> mhall119: I don't know. Let me think for a bit.
<mhall119> ok, let me know
<Trevinho> sethj: mh, please ping me tomorrow again, I'll check it...
<Trevinho> I'm about to leave now
<Trevinho> Night all!
<sethj> ok will do Trevinho!
<sethj> hmm, how would I load the unity debug symbols in gdb?
<sethj> can't seem to figure it out at all.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-29
<sethj> alright, I fixed the bug.. Can someone help me figure out how to submit it? I tried submitting a merge proposal but that didn't work out right https://code.launchpad.net/~sethj/ubuntu/wily/unity/fix-for-1445595/+merge/276072
<sarnold> quarter million lines changed, heh
<sethj> sarnold, yeah. that was strange. I used bzr branch lp:unity to get the source..
<sethj> should I have instead pushed it to unity/unity instead of wily/unity?
<sarnold> sethj: sorry, I don't know bzr very well :/
<sarnold> perhaps paste this link into the bug? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sethj/ubuntu/wily/unity/fix-for-1445595/revision/4028
<sethj> sarnold, I doubt it is as simple as that.. Somehow I got an old source tree so I'm "reverting" a bunch of changes.
<cyphermox> sethj: this would happen if you starting with lp:unity and tried to merge to lp:ubuntu/unity
<sethj> cyphermox, I tried merging into wily/unity, does that count?
<cyphermox> same thing :)
<sethj> that's what I thought.
<cyphermox> run bzr info, check what the parent is
<sethj> Should I remerge into unity/unity then?
<sethj> parent branch is   parent branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/unity/ cyphermox
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> so you simply want to file your merge proposal again, but against ~unity-team/unity/trunk
<cyphermox> (lp:unity, should be in the list of suggestions I think)
<cyphermox> you should be able to change that by using the resubmit link at the top right on the merge proposal page
<sethj> thanks cyphermox! It looks like that worked.
<cyphermox> sethj: yep. I'll let the unity dev review that
<hikiko> hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> hi duflu :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<duflu> hikiko: Going OK. How are you?
<hikiko> I'm good too
<darkxst> seb128, I gotta run, but tried to push a no change rebuild of g-c-c for cheese, but it needs the new valac package MIR'ed
<darkxst> seb128, also unity is FTBFS with what looks like gcc5/libsig++ fallout, https://launchpad.net/~darkxst/+archive/ubuntu/gd318/+build/8216566/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.unity_7.3.2%2B15.10.20151016-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey duflu hikiko darkxst
<seb128> darkxst, Trevinho has unity fixed from what he said in the previous days
<seb128> k for vala
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> And morning didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu, seb128
<hikiko> hey seb128 didrocks
<didrocks> salut hikiko
<pitti> Good morning
<desrt> good morning didrocks, duflu, seb128, hikiko, pitti, darkxst  :)
<desrt> (and everyone else)
<pitti> hey desrt, wie gehts?
<seb128> hey desrt pitti
<duflu> Hey desrt
<desrt> pitti: i gehts very well, thank you
<hikiko> goodmorning all :p
 * seb128 goes to get something to eat, bbiab
<didrocks> morning pitti, desrt
<desrt> greetings, mvo
<mvo> hey desrt
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 et didrocks !
<pitti> hey mvo, wie gehts?
<mvo> hey pitti, I'm very well, thank you! und du?
<pitti> mvo: bisschen muede, bin erst halb zwei ins Bett; aber okay, danke!
<mvo> pitti: halb-zwei? hat augsburg noch gespielt letzte nacht :) ?
<pitti> mvo: Actually FCA did play yesterday evening for the DFB Pokal (3:0 against Freiburg!), but that wasn't the reason
<didrocks> pitti: sneezing way more and didn't really sleep (was awake between 3:30am to 7am), so wellâ¦ :p
<pitti> mvo: I play basketball Wed evenings, and only come home 22:30, and after that I'm still too pumped to go to bed immediately
<pitti> so, late-night debugging session :)
<desrt> didrocks: ah.. you too, hm?
 * desrt is also coming down with something and didn't sleep well :(
<didrocks> desrt: yeah, since Monday, just getting worse
<desrt> ugh
<desrt> i was sort of hoping it cleared up before i have to fly
<mvo> pitti: aha, nice!
<pitti> didrocks: erk; time for some tea and midday nap?
<didrocks> pitti: good idea, and will add some honey to the tea as well!
 * desrt makes some tea too
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> could someone hold back gjs to transition from xenial-proposed?
<ricotz> afaics it breaks API/ABI
<pitti> ricotz: it still builds libgjs0e, so if it does change ABI it doesn't declare it?
<pitti> ricotz: you can file a bug against it and tag it "block-proposed"; right now it's held because of the powerpc FTBFS, but of course that might get "accidentally" resolved; so better file a bug with a rationale
<ricotz> pitti, upstream doesnt care about abi break, that is why there is the suffix "e"
<ricotz> pitti, ok
<ricotz> pitti, is this enough since I can't link it xenial -- bug 1511253
<ubot5> bug 1511253 in gjs (Ubuntu) "1.44.0 breaks API/ABI without transitioning" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511253
<pitti> ricotz: yes, proposed-migration doesn't care about that; but I'll mark it anyway for clarity
<ricotz> thx
<larsu> good morning!
<Trevinho> Morning!
<desrt> larsu: hello!
<didrocks> morning larsu & Trevinho
<larsu> hi Trevinho and desrt! How are you?
<larsu> and didrocks :)
<desrt> Trevinho: hey :)
<desrt> not great.  sick :/
<desrt> didrocks gave it to me
<larsu> :(
<larsu> get better!
<Trevinho> Hey larsu and didrocks! So, so... You?
<didrocks> sick as well :/
<didrocks> missing quite some hours of sleep in the process due to this
<larsu> Trevinho: good good. Going to Milan this afternoon
<larsu> didrocks: uh oh - got worse after all? Sorry to hear
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, sneezing and couldn't sleep anymore between 3:30 to 7am
<Trevinho> larsu: Milan? Why?
<larsu> Trevinho: Faina has some work thing there. I'm coming as the spouse
<larsu> and then we'll spend some time there
<larsu> drinking a lot of coffee, I presume :)
<Trevinho> larsu: eh he... Good, it's a good moment for Milan, because of the expo...
<Trevinho> I guess you'll find a lot of other good stuff, together with espresso :-)
<larsu> hehe
 * larsu is looking forward to it
<larsu> desrt: g_settings_set() immediately changes the value in the settings object and sends a changed() to the same process?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> meanwhile it sends a dbus message (async via the worker thread) to dconf to record the change
<larsu> right
<larsu> just making sure
<desrt> when dconf says "okay, i'm done" then the local value is dropped from the process
<larsu> having some trouble with the qml bindings again
<desrt> or if dconf says "something went wrong" then the local value is dropped and an additional change signal is sent (so that the program sees the old value again)
<larsu> desrt: oh you *remember* the local value?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> we have to, since it's not on disk yet and the user will expect to see it immediately
<larsu> makes sense
<desrt> dconf is very tricky
<desrt> so is irccloud...
<larsu> why?
<desrt> i just realised while having this conversation that it does much the same thing
<desrt> when i press enter, it immediately shows my message as having been sent
<pitti> seb128: are you on teh remaining bits of the poppler transition? (http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt)
<larsu> hehe
<desrt> but by the time it makes it to the server, maybe you said something before i did
<pitti> seb128: seems there's still some uninstallables there
<desrt> so it reorders messages after they've already been put in the buffer
<seb128> pitti, I plan to spend some time today looking at some of the transitions, cheese poppler evolution-data-server
<seb128> but help would be welcome
<pitti> cool, thanks
<larsu> desrt: the problem is that we're now sending the changed signal in another main loop iteration (because of a qt bug). When the change signal comes in, we don't emit it anymore because we have a "if the value hasn't change, don't emit" condition
<larsu> and I can't take that out, becasue of cycles
<larsu> it's all very messed up
<seb128> pitti, let me do a round of test builds now
<desrt> ugh
<desrt> gsettings handles this in a pretty simple way
<pitti> seb128: it's just libpoppler56 -> 58, -glib, -qt etc. are the same, right?
<pitti> seb128: want a transition tracker for it?
<desrt> 1) change signals that came from the same process always go directly, never via mainloop
<seb128> pitti, correct
<desrt> s/process/thread/
<seb128> pitti, that could be good yes
<desrt> 2) we detect recursion in the normal sense of the word and stop it there
<larsu> desrt: (1) is what we had before, but we have to go through the main loop because qt leaks if we don't
<seb128> pitti, we might want one for e-d-s as well?
<desrt> good luck to you...
<desrt> i don't know of a good solution to this problem.  this problem is part of the reason that gsettings works the way that it does.
<larsu> desrt: I could now remember the changed keys in a hash map and check that when change signals come in
<larsu> or remove the check entirely
<larsu> I hate this problem :/
<seb128> pitti, some of the rebuilds are failing due to valac not being installable if you want to have a look to that
<pitti> seb128: won't have time today, I'm afraid
<seb128> k, no worry
<seb128> adding to my todo if nobody beats me
<seb128> +to it
<pitti> seb128: committed poppler transition
<seb128> pitti, danke
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<desrt> hello willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke
<willcooke> larsu, I think it was you who told me about the calendar trick where you set the timezone to ????  somewhere in Iceland perhaps, and then it doesn't move around with DST changes?
<willcooke> Can you remind me where that place was?
<willcooke> oh wait, ignore
<willcooke> I've just removed the time zone altogether
<seb128> willcooke, Laney does that ;-)
<willcooke> ah, thx
<willcooke> I think it's sorted now
 * larsu has no clue what willcooke is talking about
 * willcooke puts down the crack pipe
<larsu> hehe
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1480217
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1480217 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus background handling screwed when changing scaling factor." [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> We've been asked to take a look at this bug with some urgency, who can take a look?  It'll need back-porting to Trusty  as well
<seb128> larsu, ^ maybe?
<seb128> Laney and larsu are the only ones in the team with hidpi configs I think
<larsu> reading right now
<seb128> danke
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<Trevinho> damned you arm64!
<Trevinho> Unity doesn't compile there (in xenial). collect2: fatal error: ld terminated with signal 11 [Segmentation fault]
<Trevinho> Not much to do... Nor to understand
<ogra_> just blame doko and move on :)
<seb128> Trevinho, try to ping doko about it on #ubuntu-devel
<Trevinho> seb128: ok thanks
<willcooke> Can we get this SRU'd in the next few days?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1508357
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1508357 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Tooltips have a black squares outside of its rounded corners" [Medium,Fix committed]
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, it's on my list for today
<willcooke> oh sweet, thanks seb128
<seb128> willcooke, did we get any user reporting it or commenting about the issue?
<seb128> I didn't see any comment about that one  yet
<willcooke> seb128,  not many.  I saw a guy mention it on the Ubuntu G+ community, but I dont think people are really noticing it.
<seb128> didrocks has good eyes ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I still can't see it even on my external monitor
<didrocks> for close vision, sure :)
<seb128> well I see that the corners are not round
<willcooke> same
<seb128> but I can't see the round inside the rectangle
 * larsu sings the song of rgba windows
<willcooke> seb128, I can just about make it out on my Inspiron
<willcooke> but I have to press my nose against the screen :)
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> willcooke: touch screen?
<willcooke> :D
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, please ping me when you copied 5.0.3~rc2 to the public ppa
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: aye
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, and don't be lazy with tweaking the version for a ppa ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, while you are here, do you see a need for 5.1.x backports for vivid?
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: not really. vivid is EOL when 5.1.0 will be released.
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: 5.0.3 copied.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, alright
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, do you intend to push a xenial build for 5.0.3 to the ppa too?
<qengho> good morning
<desrt> qengho: hello!
<didrocks> popey: FYI, the twine support brings interesting challenge for ubuntu make :p
<popey> Oh good! :)
<popey> node?
<qengho> "challenge"
<popey> Sweet5hark1, ooh, do you have a 5.0.3 build for me too? :)
<didrocks> popey: not, more simple than that: they don't provide an icon, so I need to do multiple downloads in parallel
<popey> hah
<didrocks> popey: in addition to the requirements (packages to install)
<didrocks> it was supposed to be supported from the beginning
<didrocks> but it seems there are BUGS! :)
<didrocks> (like a callback only called once called multiple timesâ¦)
<didrocks> weird that unit tests are still telling it's doing the right thing, need to investigateâ¦
<seb128> tkamppeter, what's the difference between Debian's pysmbc and our python-smbc? should be use the same name as they do? also it seems there is a new bugfix update available if you want to work on that one
<desrt> didrocks: welcome to TDD.  the API is what the tests say it is.  please adjust your code to be more like the tests :)
<didrocks> desrt: actually, the test is correct and the module have the right behavior
<didrocks> the issue is in the main module doing the different calls not behaving well
<didrocks> (the icon file is too small and so one download finish before I get the chance to have one progress for all requested download)
<tkamppeter> seb128, thank you very much. I was not aware of that. I will have a look. By the way, what is the (Ubuntu/Debian) naming policy for python libs, python-xxx or pyxxx? When I started at Ubuntu there were simply these python-xxx packages for s-c-p which I continued to maintain.
<seb128> tkamppeter, unsure there is a policy about the source packages names, usually we use the same as upstream does
<didrocks> yeah, for instance python-foo would be "foo" as source package name (for the most of python ones I've seen)
<didrocks> oh nice, CI jenkins now seems to have access to docker hub
 * didrocks will be able to wire medium tests
<willcooke> neat!
 * didrocks takes his plumbing hat, and start diving
 * mdeslaur slaps seb128 for losing changelog entries in unzip merge
<seb128> mdeslaur, ?
<seb128> oh, you mean merging back old changelog entries?
<mdeslaur> yeah
<mdeslaur> oh, did it get synced?
<seb128> question for you, if we had unzip in sync for a week and then added a delta again, would you then bring back all the old entries?
<mdeslaur> no
<seb128> k, so if that makes you happier just think that it was synced by mistake
 * mdeslaur slaps seb128 again
<seb128> then some change needed were added :p
<seb128> roh
<didrocks> ahah, that discussion again!
<seb128> but yeah, I can't be bothered
<mdeslaur> slapping you makes me happier :)
 * didrocks has some dÃ©jÃ -vu from 2009 :)
<seb128> I never merged the old changelog entries, that's more work than it's worth and it eats extra space on disk
<seb128> didrocks, yeah ;-)
<seb128> mdeslaur, instead of slapping me you should get going with doing your merges! ;-)
<seb128> that wouldn't happen if you were the one who merged it :p
<mdeslaur> hehe :)
<mhall119> willcooke: welcome back and ping about UOS sessions from the desktop team for next week
<willcooke> mhall119, hi, going in to a meeting in a mo
<mhall119> willcooke: let me know when you're free
<willcooke> that reminds me, seb128 can you attend:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22576/developer-desktop-plan-1604/
<seb128> willcooke, what tz is that in? utc?
<willcooke> seb128, I think so
<seb128> so yes
<willcooke> thx
<mhall119> yes, it's UTC
<willcooke> mhall119, meeting done quickly.
<willcooke> mhall119, so fire away
<mhall119> hey willcooke, I was asking for UOS sessions for next week, we have the developer desktop planning on already, but are there any others from your team that we can put on the schedule?
<willcooke> mhall119, we've added a QA one too
<mhall119> ok, any others you can think of?
<willcooke> other than that, there isn't anything else we need to meet about, the general 16.04 will cover everything we need to cover
<mhall119> ok
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have checked now and Debian has pysmbc 1.0.15.4-1 with binary package names python-smbc and python3-smbc, we have python-smbc 1.0.15.4-0ubuntu1 with the same binary package names.
<tkamppeter> seb128, how should I proceed to sync Debian's packages? Simply syncpackage pysmbc? Or do I (or the Debian package maintainer) do anything additional, for example to get the old python-smbc source package removed?
<seb128> tkamppeter, the source needs to be removed from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
<seb128> then we need to remove the ubuntu specific source
<tkamppeter> seb128, can I already syncpackage the new ones? The version number of Debian is "newer" so with both the python-smbc source package from Ubuntu and the pysmbc source package from Debian in our archive the Debian binary packages should be picked by installation processes.
<seb128> tkamppeter, you can try
<tkamppeter> seb128, the sync is blocked by the blacklist. Who can remove the entry?
<seb128> tkamppeter, I probably can, let me have a look
<seb128> or I see that you pinged Colin
<tkamppeter> seb128, if you can, simply do.
<seb128> tkamppeter, done
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks.
<seb128> yw
<tkamppeter> seb128, how long does it take for really getting active?
<seb128> that I don't know
<seb128> Colin should know though
<tkamppeter> seb128, now pysmbc is introduced as a new source package probably going into Universe, but the binary python3-smbc is in Main and the new one should continue in Main. What needs to be done here.
<seb128> tkamppeter, I've accepted it to main
<tkamppeter> seb128, Thanks.
<tkamppeter> seb128, and how will the old, now useless, python-smbc source package be removed? Can you simply remove it?
<seb128> yes, going to do that once the new is built
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, do you intend to push a xenial build for 5.0.3 to the ppa too??
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: not really
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: will work on 5.1 alpha for xenial
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hmm, will do it then
<ricotz> (to cope with python3.5 and poppler)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, see pm
<sethj> Trevinho, got my timezones all mixed up so I'm not sure exactly when morning is for you, but I found the issue behind the empty trash bug.
<Trevinho> sethj: hey
<sethj> and I *think* I fixed it.
<sethj> I mean, I fixed it and everything seems to work still haha. it was pretty simple so there shouldn't be any room for breaking something else.
<Trevinho> sethj: I've seen the change...
<sethj> The ... doesn't make me feel good D:
<Trevinho> However that causes another issue: so basically the "empty trash" dialog might not be focused
<Trevinho> i.e. if you write something in gnome-terminal or gedit, then you empty the trash, the dialog won't be focused
<Trevinho> That's because we need to send the action timestamp... The way i'm doing it's hackish I think
<Trevinho> sethj: the proper solution would be to fix the Nautilus dbus API to get the action timestamp as parameter.
<Trevinho> sethj: another possibility instead is to do what you did, and... To change nautilus to force opening that dialog in front always
<Trevinho> that can be done by using gtkx stuff, but it's a little hackish
<Trevinho> I guess having proper API would be better
<sethj> Trevinho, let me do some more testing on the focus issue. The dialog always raised in focus for me..
<sethj> That makes sense why the Activate call was there then. That was really confusing me (hence the suspicion that something was off with my fix)
<Trevinho> sethj: the related bug was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/807808
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 807808 in Unity "Empty trash dialog sometimes dont have the focus" [Medium,Fix released]
<sethj> Trevinho, cool. I'm no wizard, but I will take another look.
<Trevinho> sethj: thanks for taking care of this issue :)
<tkamppeter> seb128, seems that the new pysmbc has correctly made it into the archive now. so the old python-smbc can get removed.
<seb128> tkamppeter, k, thanks
<didrocks> ok, headache too strong, needs to take a nap, see you tomorrow guys
<sethj> Trevinho, do you have any more precise steps to reproduce? The dialog always appears on top and in focus..
<Trevinho> sethj: you need to write in some gnome app, then right-click the trash icon and select empty the trash..
<sethj> Trevinho, that's what I'm doing...
<Trevinho> sethj: maybe something changed at nautilus level nowadays, so it might be not neeeded...
<sethj> Trevinho, so I tried slack, gedit and gnome-terminal. with text typed and the text fields in focus the dialog still takes focus and the buttons can be manipulated from the keyboard..
<Trevinho> sethj: you also have to ensure that no nautilus window was opened..
<sethj> Trevinho, nope.
<Trevinho> sethj: basically, the same issue (the focus thing) happens if you go in the dash, files lens, open a folder preview -> press on "Open" button
<Trevinho> That action doesn't use the proper activation (there's no timestamp in previews, yet) so... The nautilus window instead of being focused, it gets opened underneath your latest used app
<Trevinho> sethj: but... In case this has changed recently (as per some nautilus change), then we could try your fix
<sethj> Trevinho, I can't reproduce the dash issue either.
<sethj> I might have noticed one regression though, testing..
<Trevinho> mhmh, sethj have you maybe disabled the compiz focus stealing prevention?
<Trevinho> sethj: in ccsm -> general -> Focus and behavior -> Focus prevention level by default is "low"
<sethj> Trevinho, ahh, yes, I believe I did. Why is that at low? It's so awful.
<Trevinho> sethj: well, the thing is that if you're writing something... And something opens, the focus shouldn't be moved away
<Trevinho> or you risk to continue writing, pressing keys in another window
<sethj> ah, right.
<sethj> Now that I think about it that happened to me during the Wily upgrade.
<sethj> yup, if I put focus prevention on low the dialog doesn't raise with focus.
<sethj> grr.
<Trevinho> so... Yeah, the only way we have do do this cleanly is to add a timestamp parameter to nautilus API
<Trevinho> This won't work when not using nautilus (i.e. elementary file manager used to work), but well... Not supporting ubuntu default is hard
<sethj> honestly I wish the default was Thunar :P Okay, I'll see if I can fix it differently.
<Trevinho> You can add an XUbuntuEmptyTrash method with timestamp parameter
<Trevinho> and... if you want thundar to support it, it has to be patched as well
<sethj> Trevinho, there's no real point IMO since Unity doesn't support changing the default file manager anyway..
<sethj> but I'll see what I can do with nautilus. I'm not sure I understand what makes the timestamp so crucial though..
<Trevinho> Mh, I see
<Trevinho> sethj: basically you should use gtk_window_present_with_time...
<Trevinho> sethj: now, there's a trick to get the current time from Xserver, and just use that value without passing it
<Trevinho> but, the right way to do this, is to use the timestamp of the event that triggered the action
<sethj> Trevinho, that's really helpful, but my first question was why adding a timestamp argument to the API fixes the issue.  Does that somehow let it bypass the focus prevention?
<Trevinho> sethj: yeah, basically there's a workaround to activate a gtk app by passing the timestamp via a gtk action...
<Trevinho> sethj: it worked fine so I didn't change the API... But I didn't think to this sideeffect
<larsu> ..... but please don't
<sethj> Trevinho, ahh.
 * larsu hopes will disallow apps from doing this
<larsu> *mir
<sethj> well mir will have to workout the other focus bugs then.
<larsu> which other focus bugs?
<sethj> larsu, the ones Trevinho has been working around. e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/807808
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 807808 in Unity "Empty trash dialog sometimes dont have the focus" [Medium,Fix released]
<larsu> Trevinho: wow! Why aren't we just fixing this in nautilus?
<larsu> sethj: clearly the window manager shouldn't need to work around such issues
<Trevinho> larsu: I do agree, but it needs an API change
<Trevinho> dbus Api change, or DBus api addition
<larsu> Trevinho: because it's an action activation?
<larsu> doesn't that take platform data already?
<Trevinho> nope
<larsu> ah, this is still the old stuff with the command line?
<seb128> that might be fixed in newer nautilus versions?
<larsu> seb128: I don't know if it has been converted to a dbus-activaeted app yet
<larsu> I don't think it has
<seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=a5617016d3e5d8e32ce02708f2c08d09926141d1
<seb128> but unsure that's enough/what you mean
<larsu> oh, that doesn't include the trash thing
<larsu> is this hard coded in unity maybe?
<Trevinho> larsu: yeah, for now we used an ugly workaround by  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13001134/
<sethj> Trevinho, wow, so is the entire activate method just to "fix" the no focus bug?
<Trevinho> sethj: yeah...
<sethj> ouch.
 * Trevinho leaves
<nessita> hello everyone! quick question: I upgraded to Wily on my Lenovo Thinkpad X201 and the battery icon is missing, and so are the power settings
<nessita> is there any package I should check is installeD?
<nessita> indicator-power shows as installed at the newest version
<willcooke> g'night all - see you next week
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-30
<hikiko> hello
<didrocks> good morning
<ari-tczew> morning
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<didrocks> hey seb128, Pici
<didrocks> pitti*
<didrocks> tab<completion>fail
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<pitti> Ã§a va bien, merci ! j'essaie me lÃ¨ve tard et aller dormir tard, pour la semaine prochaine Ã  Austin
<pitti> aller dormir tard va bien, se lÃ¨ver tard ne va pas :)
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© ;)
<didrocks> snappy sprint in Austin ?
<pitti> comment allez-vous ? didrocks, Ã§a va mieux ?
<pitti> didrocks: mon dieu, pas encore ! foundations+kernel+security sprint
<didrocks> pitti: un peu mieux, mais toujours en train de tousser et de me moucher
<didrocks> pitti: plus de mal Ã  la tÃªte au moins
<didrocks> pitti: ah, cool :)
<dholbach> hey hey
<dholbach> tjaalton, so far so good, no crash with wily's intel driver
<seb128> hey dholbach
<tjaalton> dholbach: good, so next I'll backport the dri2 fixes
<dholbach> tjaalton, if anything changes I see random explosions, I'll let you know
<tjaalton> sure, thx
<didrocks> running the medium tests (and docker) directly on the same machine that is used by jenkins worksâ¦
<didrocks> not sure what is changing creating those failures on the jenkins infra
 * didrocks adds some debug
 * pitti fait une rÃ©servation Ã  "Steak Manufaktur"
<pitti> didrocks: avez-vous mangÃ© le steak de Kobe Ã  Japon ?
<pitti> didrocks: on va en essayer ce soir :)
<didrocks> pitti: oui, un peu (pas un grand steak, juste un petit morceau) :)
<pitti> didrocks: ils sont toujours petit
<didrocks> pitti: on est allÃ© Ã  Kobe, donc c'Ã©tait l'occasion :)
<pitti> didrocks: avez-vous l'aimÃ© ?
<pitti> "petits"
<didrocks> pitti: c'Ã©tait assez tendre, oui ;)
<didrocks> on n'a pas vu les vaches se faire masser par contre
<pitti> .. parce qu'ils sont chers, mais aussi ... they are said to fill the stomach very well
<pitti> didrocks: et tu n'as pas obtenier un massage soit ? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: non plus, mais je ne suis pas allÃ© Ã  l'abatoire non plus, donc Ã§a va :p
<pitti> didrocks: ah oui, je ne voudrais pas vu Ã§a non plus :)
<pitti> "voir"
<didrocks> ;)
 * didrocks loves pycharm
<didrocks> instead of running a command on the jenkins machine, I did run it locally
<didrocks> knowing that first command is cd ubuntu-make, rm -r *
<didrocks> deleted all the uncheckouted work from yesterdayâ¦
<didrocks> but pycharm was opened
<didrocks> and it has a local history :)
<didrocks> reverted back -> done \o/
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<larsu> hi didrocks - Ã§a va?
<seb128> hey larsu, happy friday! wie gehts?
<seb128> how is Italy?
<larsu> seb128: good! sunny day in Milan
<larsu> how are you?
<didrocks> larsu: feeling a little bit better (no more headache), but still sick
<larsu> didrocks: sorry to hear :(
<didrocks> larsu: could have been worse, almost lost all my work from yesterday
<seb128> larsu, doing good, though I wonder if I'm starting getting a cold as well :-/
<larsu> didrocks: Ctrl+D in bz-do? :P
<larsu> seb128: dude watch out! Don't go to close to Lyon ;)
<seb128> used git?
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> larsu: nope, just run the jenkins script localyâ¦
<seb128> larsu, saw xkcb today? :p
<larsu> no
 * larsu checks
<seb128> larsu, did dedicated it to me :p
<seb128> didrocks even
<larsu> seb128: ya, that is *so* true
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> dholbach likes it as well!
<larsu> seb128: just fyi: I'm on the hidpi background problem (it's a bit more effort than I thought - the patch knows nothing about hidpi)
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> so you can reproduce on your box? that's a good first step ;-)
<larsu> ya, no problem
<larsu> don't even need to logout/login
<seb128> k
<larsu> set scale=2; restart nautilus; set scale=1
<seb128> we had workitems to migrate the background rendering to compiz some cycles ago
<seb128> but unsure if we should try to go to that this cycle
<seb128> feels like we have something that works and it might not be the top priority thing to invest work into
<seb128> with risks of creating new problems
<seb128> also we probably need to fix the nautilus patch anyway since the oem request is for trusty
<larsu> we still need the desktop icon part, don't we?
<seb128> right, but that's upstream
<larsu> compiz already draws the bg for me
<larsu> when I quit nautilus
<seb128> does it?
<larsu> yes
<didrocks> do you have the plugin enabled?
<larsu> fuck if I know
<larsu> I don't even have ccsd installed
<didrocks> ccsm*
<larsu> so probably I have something default
<larsu> didrocks: indeed :)
 * larsu dealt with client side decorations for too long
<seb128> larsu, if you quit nautilus and change background in ucc, does it reflect?
<didrocks> seb128: ah, you think about stuck rendering
<larsu> seb128: haha no it doesn't :)
<didrocks> ok, so you don't :)
<larsu> but restarting nautilus and then quitting it again works
<seb128> right
<larsu> no rendering issues at all
<didrocks> compiz doesn't draw anything
<seb128> it's like the image is in the xorg buffer or something
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> right, same here
<seb128> dunno why
<larsu> I guess because nautilus draws it into the root window
<larsu> ok
<didrocks> yeah, compiz keeps the root window untouched (it's for perf reason)
<didrocks> wasn't the case in the past
<larsu> don't know if we should move it to compiz - that's a question for hikiko-lpt / Trevinho / andyrock
<larsu> I'll update the patch for now
 * larsu has the feeling this is a bit high prio
<didrocks> well, you have a lot of transformation to take into account and such, doesn't feel good for a LTS IMHO
<didrocks> and we need the patch for trusty anyway
<didrocks> soâ¦ :)
<larsu> right
<seb128> larsu, yeah, apparently it's blocking dell models to ship with ubuntu
<larsu> oh wow
<didrocks> I don't know why they would change the scaling on the fly
<seb128> the issue is that you buy an hidpi machine, log in and go play with the scaling factor and you hit the issue, it's quite visible
<larsu> "quite"
<seb128> larsu, well, it's not blocking new models I think, they just want the image fixed before doing a new batch of production I think
<seb128> -I think
<seb128> still defining as rather high priority though ;-)
<hikiko-lpt> hey :) what's the problem with nautilus? I didn't understand: you quit nautilus and you change background and it doesn't update?
<larsu> hikiko: inly if you change scaling factor (but don't worry, I'm fixing it right now)
<larsu> hikiko: pinged you becasue we were discussing switching to the compiz background plugin
<larsu> hikiko: also, good morning :)
<hikiko> oh, cool :D thanks larsu
<hikiko> +good morning :)
<seb128> hikiko, Sam back then did some work on that, e.g https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.fix_1159430/+merge/170822
<seb128> see also the bug report listed on that changeset
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, ^
<larsu> no willcooke today?
<seb128> unsure if that's something we should look at doing this cycle or just keep the nautilus patch instead
<seb128> larsu, no, he's on vac wed and fri
<seb128> c.f monday's email
<larsu> ah, right, thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> larsu, looking at the new gedit, did we discuss back then not making the headerbar the titlebar?
<seb128> or was that looking too weird?
<larsu> you mean toolbar?
<larsu> that looked vwry weird because it only has those few buttons
<seb128> I mean not using csd basically
<seb128> as we do for e.g evince or eog
<larsu> right. that looked weird
<seb128> more than eog?
<larsu> yes, way more
<larsu> like evince :)
<seb128> evince looks fine
<seb128> once you have a document open
<larsu> turns out gtk sends configure events when changing the scale factor
<larsu> awesome. patch very small
<seb128> eog has 2 icons which looks a bit more weird
<larsu> hm, indeed
<seb128> larsu, great!
<seb128> ok, going to upload gedit like that
<seb128> it works good enough, ship it
<seb128> then we can collect feedback and fix issues
<larsu> \o/
<Trevinho> Morning
<larsu> Trevinho: hi from Milan! Very nice city!
<larsu> (also, good coffee of which I've already had to much)
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> larsu: eh eh well, it's quite busy city, I don't love it too much, but indeed there are cool stuff there
<Trevinho> larsu: don't exaggerate with espresso, it can make you nervous :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: oook...
<larsu> hehe will try ;)
<larsu> Trevinho: I like the business. It's also pretty to look at in the sun right now :)
<larsu> seb128: if you want to try: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/nautilus/lp1480217/+merge/276228
<larsu> ah you don't have hidpi
<seb128> larsu, looking
<seb128> no, but I should be able to reproduce by changing the scale factor anyway no?
<seb128> though I tried the other day and didn't get it to bug
<seb128> like I moved the slider in the display panel
<seb128> then restarted nautilus
<seb128> then moved back to 1
<larsu> yes, that should work
<Trevinho> As for compiz and root window, I'd avoid to change things...
<Trevinho> It's better if nautilus does that
<larsu> why?
<larsu> (not that I care that much - just curious)
<didrocks> oh, ssh -t is different from ssh -t -t
 * didrocks tries
<Laney> secret hi
<Laney> larsu: can try that patch on monday :-)
<larsu> Laney: GET OFF IRC
<Laney> hahaHAHAHAHA
<Laney> i'm checking osm for walking routes
<larsu> Laney: also, good morning :) How's Freiburg?
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> bit misty today
<Laney> but it is lifting I think
<larsu> good luck that it is
<Laney> this place is attractive
<Laney> how's milano?
<Laney> get to explore?
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128 & didrocks
<seb128> larsu, do you still have the patch that was setting the csd off for gedit?
<Laney> feeling good!
 * Laney will pass through france tomorrow
<larsu> Laney: beautiful. Sunny right now. Sitting in a cafe and work today - exploring is for the weekend ;)
<Laney> experience the RER
<larsu> seb128: I don't think so sorry
<larsu> and I think it was just a quick hack (not checking running desktop etc)
<larsu> Laney: RER?
<didrocks> Laney: argh, "enjoy"
<didrocks> larsu: Paris' region train
<larsu> ah
<seb128> larsu, k, no worry
<didrocks> larsu: in the morning, at some stations, it can be: http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2014/01/RER-cop-@_ImAnndy_.jpg
<larsu> woah!
<desrt> oh RER
<desrt> how wonderful
<desrt> just be happy you're not there in the summer
<desrt> the AC never works and it seems that a lot of people in france have an aversion to use of deoderant...
<desrt> ...and it's approximately as full as in that picture :)
<larsu> desrt: you really do hate France, don't you?
<larsu> morning :)
<desrt> larsu: i think in this case it's actually true.  i think didrocks even said some mocking things on this topic in the other direction...
<larsu> heh
<didrocks> it's not "always as full as in that picture", but yeah, can happenâ¦
<didrocks> and not really clean
<desrt> didrocks: did you mock me once for wearing deoderant?
<didrocks> ? not that I remember of
<desrt> perhaps i misremembered
<didrocks> I guess you did :)
<didrocks> yeahhhhh, medium test pass even in jenkins now \o/
<didrocks> it's really really ugly though, to force allocation of a pseudo tty thereâ¦
<larsu> seb128: no packaging branch for glib either?
 * seb128 shakes fist at unity handling of scale factor
<seb128> larsu, no, glib we get from Debian in sync most of the time
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> larsu, sorry, setting scaling factor to 2 was ridiculusly complex due to unity insisting I must not to that and undo my gsettings changes
<larsu> oh why that?
<larsu> does it not allow it for some resolutions?
<larsu> people in this city are exceptionally well dressed
<seb128> right
 * larsu likes his window seat
<seb128> they limit it so you can't set 4 and never be able to find the controls again
<larsu> that is reasonable
<larsu> though it has moved the controls off screen for me countless times
<larsu> having this instant-apply is also kind of bad in my opinion
<Trevinho> larsu: that's italy... And Milan is the capital of fashion. People, (unfortunately, in some cases), gives lots of importance to the way you dress and express yourself
<Trevinho> seb128: setting the scaling has to be done from unity scaling settings, not from gnome ones :)
<seb128> Trevinho, doesn't work
<Trevinho> weeeeird
<seb128> Trevinho, ok, in fact it does work, it's just that multimonitor makes it more complex
<seb128> larsu, that branch from you doesn't fix it there :-/
<larsu> bah
<seb128> does it work for you?
<larsu> ya
<seb128> :-(
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, it can be defined globally only if chosen
<larsu> seb128: I wonder what's different on your setup...
<seb128> larsu, the way I tested is "quit nautilus; set scaling to 2; start nautilus; changing scaling to 1"
 * larsu nods
<larsu> I wonder if I messed up moving the patch
<larsu> but it looks cirrect in the diff
<larsu> *correct
<seb128> is there any function that I should check is called when the scaling factor changes?
<larsu> configure event
<larsu> widget_configure_cb in the patch
<larsu> bah! Waiting for glib to build and the tests don't pass
<desrt> hm?
<larsu> how do we upload packages like this?
 * desrt eyebrow raise
<larsu> ERROR: actions - too few tests run (expected 11, got 10)
<larsu> ERROR: actions - exited with status 139 (terminated by signal 11?)
<desrt> is your dbus environment whack?
<desrt> it's usually the export/threaded tests that are failing there
<desrt> (on account of dbus)
<larsu> whack? no
<larsu> stock wily
<desrt> and you just run it via 'make check' from cmdline?
<larsu> no, building the package
<larsu> which is annoying - I want to test my patch
<larsu> I'd rather not run the tests
 * larsu wonders if he can ask debuild to do so
<desrt> if you have a copy of vi that you can point at the rules, i imagine so :)
<larsu> --disable-tests?
<seb128> larsu, you can probably edit debian/rules and comment DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET = -k check || true
<seb128> going for lunch but I'm going to try the nautilus scale thing a bit more after that
<seb128> seems to not call the configure_cb here :-/
<larsu> tanks
<larsu> seb128: built and installed the package with my patch (worked from source before) - works as well
<larsu> sigh, time is wrong again
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> seb128, hi, did you still have the MIR of vala on your list -- https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala -- it likely creates some build failure already
<Sweet5hark> hrhr, nice. LibreOffice repositories are now replicated live on launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~documentfoundation/+git
<Sweet5hark> (along with freedesktop, github as alternative mirrors to the prestine repo at libreoffice.org)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, hey, was the release of 5.0.3 postponed?
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-td4164709.html
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, ah alright, did you read my pm?
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: the one about boost?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, while the mentioned commits breaks building with older boost versions
<ricotz> so the interal orcus is broken
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: just revert the commit on backports?
<ricotz> obviously I did that, but doesnt this create issues everywhere?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: btw I see 0ubuntu4 in xenial/proposed, great! Is 0ubuntu3/wily on track or blocking on anything from me?
<andyrock> morning
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<seb128> ricotz, the needed binaries were promoted this morning
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+queue?queue_state=1 is an useful url ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thx
<ricotz> seb128, ok, launchpad website seems to lack behind then
<ricotz> seb128, can you retry https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.16.3-0ubuntu2
<seb128> yes
<seb128> launchpad doesn't lack behind, but I promoted the binaries, forgot the source
<ricotz> thanks
<larsu> desrt: you maintain gdbus now, right? Want to have a look at this? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=755421
<ubot5> Gnome bug 755421 in gdbus "GDBus ignores NO_REPLY_EXPECTED flag in messages, leading to warnings on system bus" [Normal,New]
<larsu> seb128: are you still seeing that background scaling error? I cannot reproduce it anymore :/
<larsu> (with my patch, I mean)
<seb128> larsu, yes :-/
<larsu> that function is never called for you?
<larsu> latest wily/xenial?
<seb128> seems it's not, or the output doesn't end up where I expect it
<seb128> like me try again with a g_warning
<larsu> should output to the terminal if no other instance of nautilus was running before (otherwise it just activates that
<larsu> )
<larsu> how did you quit it? nautilus -q?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> nautilus -q
<seb128> it's just that I started it again by using the launchpad
<seb128> because the scaling x 2 on my lowres laptop makes things not fit well on screen
<seb128> so I close most windows
<larsu> you can scale 1.1Ã
<larsu> same bug
<seb128> hum?
<seb128> I though gtk scaling was ints
<larsu> it is
<larsu> but setting 1.1 changes the screen geometry
<seb128> oh
<larsu> wallpaper will not line up, but you'll see the same artifacts
<seb128> so just writing the key should trigger the callback
<seb128> even if gtk widgets are not scaled
<larsu> another reason for not having factors other than 2 ... sigh
<seb128> larsu, no, widget_configure_cb is never called
<seb128> nor on start neither when changing the scaling-factor gtk key
 * Trevinho spamming anyone by renaming rls-w-incoming in rls-x-incoming :P
<Trevinho> I'm launching this only for unity, do you guys want me to do this also for other packages?
<seb128> Trevinho, desktop ones yes please, but maybe avoid for other teams? or email ubuntu-devel@ first to say you want to do that and ask if there is any objection
<bregma> pitti, could I ask you to take a moment to look at #1511047 it's blocking our landing stuff in xenial
<seb128> larsu, that callback never gets called, whatever I do, including connecting other screens or changing resolution
<larsu> seb128: yeah same here, just tried rebuilding everything again. Don't know what I was drinking
 * larsu revists
<larsu> sorry
<seb128> so why is it working with you now?!*
<larsu> it doesn't after cleanly rebuilding my branch
<seb128> :-(
<larsu> hm gtk itself checks for that in realize, configure, and change screen
<seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=5616bbd45b13ec9b76619c2a594cdc9a930edca1
<seb128> not sure if that's useful
<seb128> I also tried it but doesn't seem to get trigger when the key change...
<larsu> hm interesting
<larsu> trying with notify::scale-factor right now
<seb128> larsu, no need for both of us to try similar things, I'm going back to the other items on my todolist but let me know if you need me to test something
<larsu> seb128: ya of course. Thanks!
<seb128> also what other change did you have in your unclean tree?
<seb128> maybe that's some upstream update or other hack you had that fixed it?
<pitti> bregma: ah, between firefighting and getting ready for travelling to the sprint; in the meantime, can you please forward this to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/ already for upstream review?
<pitti> bregma: nevermind, it already is
<bregma> :)
<pitti> bregma: uploaded
<bregma> pitti, many thanks
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: hey, could you please apply http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13010409/ to https://code.launchpad.net/~townsend/unity-lens-music/fix-icon-path.trusty.SRU/+merge/265656
<Trevinho> otherwise it doesn't build...
<Trevinho> (and ci-train generates a bad changelog)
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: Ok, sure
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: thanks
<larsu> seb128: ok, got it now I think. totally different from what I thought. Pleae retry when you have time (force pull)
 * larsu found out that nautilus' desktop handling code is insanely complex
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: Ok, done.
<Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: thanks
<ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: any time
<seb128> larsu, seems to not work but I did a local hack and binary cp so doing a clean build now to be sure
<happyaron> I suppose archive for x-series is open?
<didrocks> yep
<happyaron> great
<seb128> happyaron, not only suppposed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xenial-changes/2015-October/date.html
<happyaron> ok quite a lot already, :)
<seb128> though it seems there is a slow update to do merges this cycle
<seb128> uptake
<seb128> I hope Laney gives an hand once he's back next week ;-)
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> larsu, ok, so full build seems to work mostly, at least the bg image is correct now
<seb128> but I've an issue with desktop icons
<seb128> they stay scaled up until they are moved
<seb128> which is a bit weird ;-)
<seb128> do you see that as well?
<larsu> seb128: I do indeed :)
<larsu> this is cool
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> problem is that upstream has quite some refactorings
<larsu> so we can't just look what they do and backport
<seb128> yeah, we are looking at updating for xenial
<seb128> but we need to fix trusty still...
<larsu> ya
<didrocks> and medium tests runs in prod now \o/
<didrocks> ok, time for week-end and rest :-)
<didrocks> have a good one everyone!
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<didrocks> thanks, you too seb128
<Trevinho> Night!
<Trevinho> Night!
<ogra_> hmm, interesting ... after upgrade to wily my xchat still has the overlay scrollbars (everything else doesnt) ... i thought we removed the package
<mdeslaur> ogra_: xchat is gtk2, so still has them
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-31
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning
<jbicha> I guess gspell needs allow-stderr added to d/tests/control
<robert_ancell> jbicha, mp?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: https://paste.gnome.org/py7gajgx9
<robert_ancell> jbicha, ta
<robert_ancell> jbicha, is that going to get fixed in Debian? It will be nicer if we can just stay in sync
<jbicha> I did push it to pkg-gnome git but I didn't ping anyone to upload it
<jbicha> I'm not sure how important autopkgtest is to them since it doesn't stop migration like on Ubuntu
<jbicha> bigon: well since you did the last gspell upload, I'm pinging you ^
<hikiko> hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> hey duflu :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<hikiko> (happy Monday!)
<duflu> hikiko: I think I'm almost normal (last week was all about the jet lag). You?
<hikiko> no jet lag for me :)
<RAOF> :)
<hikiko> hi RAOF !
<duflu> hikiko: I forgot to ask... in your talk you mentioned your optimizations don't ever use more than 17% CPU on a low end system. Does that mean we have room for 5x frame rate still? :)
<hikiko> what do you mean by 5x frame rate duflu ? 5 times faster? (I am pretty sure I said usually though because we ve counted several times but I can't be sure that someone won't start a super heavy project)
<hikiko> 17% was the higher I measured in a vm when I opened several windows etc
<hikiko> (a very restricted vm :))
<duflu> hikiko: OK, fair enough. Just sounded like the worst case performance. I would expect worst cast is higher than 17% as you say
<duflu> worst *case*
 * duflu is reminded of some Unity8 bugs that need some attention in that area
<hikiko> maybe I should remove the percentage from the slide and say something like "N times faster" and measure that N
<RAOF> :)
<hikiko> by opening the same windows :p
<duflu> hikiko: Or just set swap interval = 2 or 3 :)
<hikiko> in the next presentation :)
<hikiko> swap interval?
<duflu> hikiko: How often OpenGL renders (by default it's every 1)
<hikiko> oh, swap buffers
<hikiko> no :)
<hikiko> https://www.opengl.org/wiki/Swap_Interval
<duflu> Sorry, I'm day dreaming about optimizations. While actually meant to be working on optimizations
<duflu> Yeah 1 is default, 0 is for games and benchmarks. But you can use 2 for 30Hz and 3 for 20Hz etc if you wish to limit CPU usage
<hikiko> well in compiz we have to synchronize with vblank otherwise you ll have tearing
<duflu> hikiko: Any value above 0 is synchronized
<duflu> Although if you're in fallback mode with fbdev the sync logic probably doesn't exist. Tearing is unavoidable there
<hikiko> I mostly changed the effects that require redraws or invalidate large areas
<hikiko> for example if a plugin used fade with 10 intermediate steps
<hikiko> I made the steps a parameter and reduced them to 0
<duflu> hikiko: I know. Sorry for the confusion... Keep it up. :)
<hikiko> I'll read about sync etc though duflu, I just made the changes at a higher level and I am not so familiar, might be useful to do some optimisations there if there are no visual artifacts :)
<hikiko> thanks for mentioning that!
<desrt> morning!
<hikiko> hi desrt
<duflu> Morgen(?) desrt
<desrt> guten morgen :)
<desrt> thanks for reminding me
 * desrt punches the duolingo clock
<desrt> "You are now 34% fluent in German!"
<desrt> "[Add to LinkedIn Profile]"
<Sweet5hark> moin
<hikiko> desrt, according to duolingo you are almost german now! :p
<hikiko> hi willcooke
<willcooke> morning all!
<willcooke> How's it going hikiko ?
<hikiko> good :)
<hikiko> how about you? did you enjoy your holidays?
<willcooke> hikiko, was very busy :)  School half term so we did lots of things
<hikiko> :D
<hikiko> I hope you had fun willcooke :)
<Laney> 'sup
<seb128> hey willcooke hikiko Laney
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<hikiko> hey seb128 Laney :)
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney seb128 willcooke hikiko
<hikiko> morning flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you? got over the ubuflu?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I have my Mojo back :-D
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> hey seb128 hikiko flexiondotorg & willcooke
<Laney> seb128: good thanks, I enjoyed my extra hour in bed
<Laney> and rode my bike with a pumpkin attached to the back
<Laney> you?
<seb128> w.e was quite alright
<seb128> though I've a cold
<seb128> been dealing with a start of cold for the week and it got me at the end
<Laney> :(
<Laney> did you get the renovations finished?
<seb128> but it's not too strong so it's alright (though a bit worth today, going to teach me to not rest)
<hikiko> epidemic flubuntu  :/
<seb128> not quite finished but it's getting there
<seb128> we should be able to use it by the end of this week
<seb128> but otherwise w.e was nice, gf's birthday diner on saturday and enjoyed the nice weather yesterday
<Laney> good!
<hikiko> Trevinho, andyrock ping :)
<Trevinho> hikiko: hey
<hikiko> hey Trevinho
<hikiko> if you have a moment could you review my branches (u7, compiz)?
<Trevinho> hikiko: Yeah, I will do it later today...
<seb128> good morning Trevinho!
<hikiko> thanks :)
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, how are you?
<seb128> Trevinho, had a good w.e?
<seb128> Trevinho, I got a cold, otherwise I'm good ... you?N
<Trevinho> seb128: Yeah, very good... I've been to Bologna for a security event and some hanging out with friends... It's a very active city...
<Trevinho> Tomorrow is a national holiday again though âºï¸
<seb128> security event?
<Trevinho>  seb128 yeah... Event about hacking and security. Quite interesting.
<seb128> here as well, though I'm going to work and swap it in decembre, getting thin on vac days for end of year
<Trevinho> seb128: ah good move. Well.... Maybe i could do that too... But, well... I'll see. I actually wanted do something even today, but my friends are getting lazy :-/
<hikiko> back
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 flexiondotorg - I just logged this (we mentioned it during the sprint):  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+bug/1637984
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637984 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "Disks shows all mounted snaps" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> I dont think it's really a bug as such - but would be interested to know what you think
<flexiondotorg> Well, I have a very snapped 16.04 machine and Disks is a bit cluttered.
<Laney> willcooke: mmm, I didn't hear about that
<andyrock> morning
<Laney> Not sure what the right thing to do is
<willcooke> hey andyrock - thanks for the heads up
<willcooke> re public hols ^
<Laney> hi andyrock
<Laney> 'sup?
<andyrock> nothing special you?
<Laney> feeling spooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooOOOOoooOOOOooOOOOoky
<Laney> flexiondotorg: you want to fwd that one upstream and ask if they have any ideas about what to do maybe?
<flexiondotorg> I'll add it to my list.
<Laney> ta
<willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg Laney
<popey> I think I have a really easily reproducible way to crash unity-panel-service on 16.04. Can someone reproduce, and I'll file a bug? Click the date/time indicator, skip forward a few months, then press escape. Machine appears to lock but it's just the panel service frozen, then a few mins later apport arrives and everything carries on....
<popey> https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/70fd2256-9f64-11e6-a12f-fa163e171d9b is my crash report for it
<jbicha> seb128: could you try resetting the versions tracker? I believe I broke it this weekend but it generated fine here locally now
<jbicha> Laney: interested in reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu-themes/fix-gtk322-warnings/+merge/309652 ?
<Laney> jbicha: sure, will do at some point
<Laney> is it backwards compatible?
<jbicha> Laney: yes, to yakkety
<seb128> jbicha, did you push override?
<Laney> good
<jbicha> seb128: no
<seb128> weird
<seb128> I'm having a look in any case
<seb128> popey, doesn't do it for me
<seb128> well I tried a few being less than 10
<popey> hm
<willcooke> popey, seb128 - crashes here (so 64bit issue?)
<seb128> no, can't get it to bug
<seb128> could be
<seb128> or depends of your settings, if you have calendar events, etc
<popey> i also get it to bug out if I press AltGr instead of Esc
<popey> could be, yeah
<seb128> using altgr doesn't do anything here
<seb128> in any case if it segfaults it's a valid bug even if it doesn't happen to everyone
<seb128> shame we don't have anyone working on indicators anymore though :-/
<popey> seems I'm not alone, there's thousands of crashes of this type in errors.ubuntu.com
<popey> "unity-panel-service (11) g_type_check_instance_is_a â ido_calendar_menu_item_key_press â _gtk_marshal_BOOLEAN__BOXED â g_closure_invoke â signal_emit_unlocked_R"
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, the disks thing is a bit tricky, they are valid mounts
<popey> looks like there's already a bug for it, bug 1554219
<ubot5`> Error: Launchpad bug 1554219 could not be found
<popey> lies
<popey> :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> popey, you need to change month for it to bug?
<seb128> how many?
<popey> i skipped to july next year
<popey> doesn't always do it, annoyingly
<popey> but often enough that I've had it happen repeatedly on me
<seb128> let's see if tedg or charles might be wanted to have a look, probably a bug in ido
<JanC> Disks shows block devices, not (all) mounts
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Laney jbicha Do you have HiDPI capable machines?
<flexiondotorg> Zesty is exhibiting very unusual behavior on XPS 15.
<flexiondotorg> Almost as if a single UHD screen is the top left quarter of the screen resolution.
<jbicha> my screen is 1080p
<Laney> Yes, but I didn't upgrade yet
<seb128> flexiondotorg, I don't
<dobey> hikiko: hi! were you finally able to get your laptop fixed? :)
<hikiko> hey dobey :) almost... Ibm sent me some parts after I sent them pictures and details but I haven't replaced the broken ones yet! I will do it after the end of my day :)
<hikiko> but dobey some soldering fixed it temporarily: http://i.imgur.com/AHGj2q1.jpg
<dobey> hikiko: haha nice :)
<hikiko> but I have a screw and a metal part now
<hikiko> remained outside :/
<hikiko> I don't know where from
<hikiko> :s
 * flexiondotorg gets lunch...
<dobey> :-/
<seb128> jbicha, versions errors out with that
<seb128>   File "versions.py", line 537, in <module>
<seb128>     if package.ubuntu_version is None or compare_versions(apt_pkg.upstream_version(package.upstream_version), apt_pkg.upstream_version(package.ubuntu_version)) > 0:
<seb128> TypeError: must be string, not None
<seb128> andyrock, hey, could you have a look to bug #633749?
<ubot5`> bug 633749 in RPM "[rpm] %find_lang should not list C documentation" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633749
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> bug 1633749
<ubot5`> bug 1633749 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Double login to switch back to my session after closing the guest session" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633749
<andyrock> oki
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> andyrock, the unity lockscreen doesn't seem to unlock anymore when coming back from the lightdm greeter
<andyrock> just on y?
<seb128> yes
 * flexiondotorg returns
<andyrock> seb128: cannot reproduce on a virtual machine
<seb128> weird
<jbicha> seb128: could you subscribe desktop-bugs to libgnome-games-support for bug 1635642 ?
<ubot5`> bug 1635642 in libgnome-games-support (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libgnome-games-support" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635642
<seb128> I can on my conference laptop
<seb128> several other people said they saw that during the team week
<seb128> jbicha, done
<seb128> jbicha, did you see my comment about the version's error
<jbicha> seb128: yes, I have a possible fix for that
<andyrock> Trevinho: can you reproduce this?  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633749
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1633749 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Double login to switch back to my session after closing the guest session" [Medium,Triaged]
<andyrock> on Y
<flocculant> andyrock: I saw that when testing Y (on Xubuntu) reported against light-locker at the time
<andyrock> well xubuntu does not use unity
<flocculant> nope - not saying we do - but if xubuntu saw the same thing - perhaps it's not unity *shrug*
<andyrock> maybe systemd-logind
<flocculant> tbh - we had so many issues with this *sort* of issue at that time - I got lost - not got a Y install now to look again
<flocculant> just thought I'd mention it
<andyrock> k thanks
<seb128> Laney, ^ if you have an Y system could you give that a go? switch to the greeter from indicator-session and log back and see if the session is unlocked
<seb128> willcooke, popey, Trevinho was a step ahead of you it seems, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/13.10.0+17.04.20161028-0ubuntu1 uploaded on friday fixes that calendar segfault
<willcooke> nice one Trevinho
<willcooke> please SRU to X :)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> willcooke, but again he was a step ahead ... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=ido ;-)
<seb128> Italian quality
<willcooke> BOOM!
<willcooke> 10 points to Ravenclaw
<Laney> seb128: I already know that you have to double unlock
<Laney> session -> guest session -> lightdm -> session does it
<seb128> andyrock, ^
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<andyrock> oki I can reproduce with
<andyrock> session -> lock -> switch -> lightdm -> session
<andyrock> if I do session -> guest -> lightdm -> session it works
<andyrock> i'll try to fix it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> but weird, guest -> back to lightdm -> log in is buggy here
<flexiondotorg> Laney, I've been looking at Firefox notebooks (tabs) again.
<flexiondotorg> And willcooke had also pointed out that tabs in GNOME Terminal and GEdit were inconsistent, and could I look at that too.
<Laney> that's because willcooke himself added gnome-terminal specific tab styling
<flexiondotorg> I recall something about "coloured tabs" either from an chat here or a conversation.
<willcooke> making the tabs in gedit have different colours (or making the current tab more obvious) would be a reeeeealy nice fix.  If you want to rework the terminal fixes to make them look better - fine with me, but not something to spend a lot of time on I think.
<flexiondotorg> I've got a fairly significant reworking on tabs, which make Terminal and Gedit look consistent and sort FF.
<willcooke> perfect! thanks flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> So, my tab are not a dark/light distinctive as in GNOME Terminal.
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, if you have a screenshot / demo  - we should run it past design quickly
<flexiondotorg> This is to make sure while they work in FF they don't look incorrect in GTK3.
<flexiondotorg> OK
<flexiondotorg> I'll clean up what I have and create before/after for gedit, terminal and FF/
<Laney> Nice
<Laney> fixing notebook tabs would be decent
<andyrock> seb128: logind is not sending us the dbus signal
<andyrock> or we're not receiving it
<andyrock> seb128: ok so the enviroment variable XDG_SESSION_ID is not set anymore
<andyrock> that's the problem, we're not listening to the correct dbus path
<andyrock> seb128: now would be nice to know why that variable is not set
<andyrock> seb128: i can get it using initctl get-env
<andyrock> but not with g_getenv
<andyrock> Trevinho: ^^^
<seb128> oh, another systemd session fallout then...
<andyrock> where should I fix it?
<seb128> good question, depends if relying on the env variable to be set is the right thing
<seb128> likely in the systemd job
<seb128> Laney and/or Trevinho maybe have an opinion
 * Trevinho checks
<Trevinho> Oh... mhmh. Maybe there's some systemd way to get it?
<Trevinho> or... Mh, ensuring we export it when launching unity would be preferrable
<andyrock> Trevinho: oki I can prepare a branch
<Trevinho> andyrock: using initctl or what?
<andyrock> yep
<andyrock> initctl get-env work
<andyrock> i can check if the variable is already set
<andyrock> otherwise I set it
<Trevinho> well, the fact is that is weird that systemd can't see that if upstart has it
<Trevinho> but...
<Trevinho> could be something to enforce
<CrazyLemon> guys.. is this a known 16.10 bug https://i.imgur.com/PIsKAWf.png ? dual display..the secondary one with the messed up graphics is when i drag the window from the left around the secondary display. Basically anything i drag/open on secondary display there's a trail of that
<Trevinho> CrazyLemon: seb128, Laney was looking at it already?
<andyrock> gnome-shell seems to use XDG_SESSION_ID too
 * dobey saw several people have that bug on the haag projector
<andyrock> using getenv
<andyrock> it's a nautilus bug
<Trevinho> dobey: yeah... It's reproducible for some time in VMs actually. Now it started happening in a sronger way
<Laney> CrazyLemon: Fixed, get the nautilus SRU
<Laney> andyrock: Don't use get-env, that's an upstartism
<andyrock> Laney: so what?
<Laney> I don't exactly know what the systemd-ish way would be - it's a session vs. user thing
<Laney> wait for pitti
<Laney> so many trick or treaters around
 * Laney hears some next door
 * Laney goes to hide in the cupboard
<Laney> ok, they went past
<Laney> my sister was right when she said that a pumpkin in the window is the international sign
 * Laney took ours away this morning
<Laney> andyrock: If you look at systemd-cgls you see that unity is under user@XXXX.service and not session-cX.scope - the session ones get that env var
<Laney> basically things that get started by systemd don't
<Laney> but you can't just set it for all systemd things since they might be under different logind sessions
 * Laney doesn't know what the right answer is to that
<Laney> you need the super wizard (probably tomorrow)
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> night all!
<dobey> hi robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> dobey, hi
<dobey> robert_ancell: what all is needed to be able to land the qt bindings for snapd-glib?
<robert_ancell> dobey, me to finish them
<dobey> robert_ancell: what all is missing?
<robert_ancell> dobey, it is mostly the QML part being finished, and a few functions missing. It's lp:~robert-ancell/snapd-glib/qt
<dobey> robert_ancell: any idea if it would be possible to get rid of the pkcon password entry requirement?
<robert_ancell> dobey, if you use snapd-glib then there's a d-bus daemon that does it for you, is that what you mean?
<dobey> robert_ancell: right, but it still pops up a pkcon dialog requiring me to enter my local password
<robert_ancell> dobey, as far as I can tell that's the intended behaviour from the snap team. Obviously you could override that with PK configuration
<robert_ancell> If you don't pop up a dialog then any U1 account can install snaps on any system, which doesn't make sense
<dobey> well that's entirely true, because just having a u1 account doesn't get you logged in to the system itself
<robert_ancell> dobey, I mean if I jump onto your machine when your not looking then I can use my account to install any snap. snapd can't validate the user account because it only allows root to get the macaroon
<dobey> and "guest" local account shouldn't be allowed to install anything at all, even if they have a u1 account, really
<robert_ancell> dobey, right, that's where the PK policy can decide
<dobey> robert_ancell: well if you're already logged in, i can just go install any (free) snap anyway, too
<dobey> i don't need a separate u1 account for that
<dobey> or if you have a terminal open where you've recently validated yourself with sudo, then i can do a lot more than just install snaps
<robert_ancell> sure
<robert_ancell> I'll let the security team decide if the policy should be changed
<dobey> and it's not entirely clear how an all-snaps personal image will work with regards to the local users problem, either
<dobey> you can't even boot the snappy core image without logging in to a u1 account right now
<robert_ancell> dobey, I suspect the all-snaps image will have different policy in general
<dobey> yeah, just trying to find a nice balance in the UX across devices
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-01
<pitti> Laney, andyrock: not sure what you mean with "getenv", but you shold just use your normal process env usually -- what are you trying to do? (I'm on a sprint this week, better email me with full context)
<pitti> andyrock, Laney: "systemctl --user show-environment" shows the full env, in case you need that for something
<hikiko> hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> morning duflu :-)
 * duflu enjoys the fun of having wiped his dev machine and then found the current 17.04 install image can't install
<hikiko> ouch
<RAOF> Install image? :)
<duflu> RAOF: Bah dyslexia. I mean ISOs
<duflu> Both the ones available fail (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1637985)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637985 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "zesty install fails - "An attempt to configure apt to install additional packages from the CD failed."" [Critical,Triaged]
<RAOF> duflu: Oh, I know. But installing from ISO?
<duflu> RAOF: Yep, always
<RAOF> sed -i s/yakkety/zesty/g /etc/apt/sources.list FTW :P
<duflu> I prefer to clean out my system periodically and start fresh
<desrt> moin!!!
<desrt> morning duflu, RAOF, hikiko :)
<duflu> Morning desrt
<hikiko> morning desrt RAOF :)
 * desrt takes a look at 538 and hides her eyes
<desrt> Americans: DO NOT FUCK THIS UP
<flexiondotorg> desrt, hikiko pitti Morning
<hikiko> hey flexiondotorg pitti :)
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg hikiko desktoper
<hikiko> hey seb128 !
<flexiondotorg> seb128, o/
<seb128> just saying hey and dropping from IRC, moving to work outside, we have workers here, back in 10 minutes or so
<willcooke> morning all
<hikiko> hi willcooke :)
<Laney> moning!
<Laney> pitti: The XDG_SESSION_ID not being available in user scope
<Laney> unity wants to connect to logind to know when to unlock the session
<willcooke> hi Laney, did you manage to ward off the evil sprits spirits?
<Laney> willcooke: you mean the local children right?
<willcooke> Laney, :D indeed
<Laney> I sat in darkness in a cupboard until the noise went away
<willcooke> very wise
<seb128> hey Laney willcooke
<willcooke> Laney, I had boy #1 deal with it, he seems to like it
<willcooke> morning seb128
<Laney> my sister told me that having a pumpkin in the window is a sign for them to come
<Laney> I had no idea about that
<Laney> so I removed the pumpkin and it seemed to work!
<seb128> good job :-)
<flexiondotorg> Morning willcooke Laney
<Laney> I certainly never looked out for pumpkins back in the day
<willcooke> But now you'll have bad juju all year
<willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
<Laney> just terrorised every house I could find
<Laney> hi seb128 et flexiondotorg
<Laney> what's up?
<seb128> seems like summer is over
<Laney> looks cold and wet today here indeed
<seb128> we still had a very nice and sunny day yesterday, seems to change today
<Laney> was enjoying the fallen leaves
<Laney> now they will be sludge
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I went to my tennis group lesson yesterday evening, getting cold in the evening
<seb128> it was also maybe not the best move to get over that cold, but oh well, at least I had a good night and it's worth today
<Laney> the call of the ball is strong
<seb128> indeed!
<seb128> Laney, was halloween already a thing in the u.k when you were young?
<seb128> it's becoming popular in France but it's only taking up since a few years
<Laney> seb128: yeah
<Laney> people would have sweets in anyway
<Laney> not so much on decorations and stuff
<Laney> maybe the pumpkin thing is new
 * seb128 shakes the fist to the U.S marketing
<Laney> I like it anyway, the kids actually respected it which meant I was left alone \o/
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> we had to go round to next door to collect a parcel
<Laney> she looked nervous when answering the door
<seb128> lol
<seb128> oh, meeting is one hour earlier today!
 * seb128 needs to get used to DST
<hikiko> cool :) I ll be there!
<hikiko> only 30mins after the end of my day
<seb128> hikiko, you have a strict schedule it seems :-)
<hikiko> hahaha
<Laney> there's a lot of netflix to watch
<Laney> you have to be disciplined!
<hikiko> :|
<seb128> indeed
<hikiko> I have to go to the pool, that's all :p
<Laney> that almost works on firefox for me now
<Laney> it asked me to enable DRM
<Laney> but didn't actually load the player
<hikiko> I hate drm, I only watch netflix on tv
<Laney> it's certainly easier that way
<hikiko> I don't want to enable them
 * Laney chromecasts it from phone
<Laney> phone is a lost cause anyway
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, morning!  Are you free for a very quick chat about some Firefox patches from Mozilla for menus?
<flexiondotorg> Laney, inching closer to improved notebook and frames
<flexiondotorg> There are many edges cases, Firefox being the most awkward to accommodate.
<Laney> Can't firefox start using the CSS more in line with the rest of GTK?
<Laney> anyway, good luck
<Laney> I guess other themes don't have this problem; probably there are some nickable tricks there
<desrt> Laney, willcooke, flexiondotorg, seb128:  hi :)
<seb128> good morning desrt, how are you?
<desrt> comfortable
<desrt> and not sick!
<desrt> are you back in NL?
 * Laney nods desrt 
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I've not been out of the .nl since we saw each others in DenHaag I think?
<desrt> ah.  i thought you were going to france after the sprint
<seb128> we decided to swap weekends and went the one just before instead
<desrt> ah.  cool
<flexiondotorg> Laney, So FF soft of is. There is an interaction between notebook and frames. Cleaning that up for GTK applications also remove the black bordering in FF.
<seb128> but going back to France on saturday
<seb128> going to spend a week there
<flexiondotorg> Laney, But I agree, should have some specific selectors.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Well the recent regressions with Firefox are in every theme I've tested.
<flexiondotorg> What I have here seem to be working. Just checking that fixing one area doesn't cause problems elsewhere.
<seb128> going to be good to have gtk3 stable!
<Laney> Then we get to complain about gtk4 :P
<seb128> :-)
<desrt> :)
<Laney> and things like processes linking two versions in
<desrt> i'm glad this all worked out and made most people happy in the end
<desrt> you guys had some pretty negative initial reactions
<seb128> that comment was about the gtk3 being stable part
<seb128> gtk4 is going to be "fun"
<desrt> :)
<desrt> don't package it?
<desrt> (semi-serious)
<seb128> as Laney said, going to be fun with libs and versions mix
<Laney> gnome's going to use it
<seb128> that's not a problem for this cycle
<seb128> let's see where things are for next
<Laney> haha
 * desrt shrugs
<seb128> ideally we would delay that to after the LTS
<seb128> but that might be a strech and people are likely going to push for it before
<desrt> my suggestion: policy states that gtk4 (and therefore anything that depends on it) lives in universe
<desrt> anything that goes in base image has to be a gtk3-using version
<seb128> sensible
<desrt> if people really need the bleeding edge gedit, they can install the gedit-gtk4 package and suffer
<seb128> unsure how things are going to play out for e.g webkitgtk
<desrt> webkit will do what they did before: gtk3 and gtk4 versions
<seb128> I guess we are going to have lib builds for each
<willcooke> they can install snaps :)
<desrt> true!
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> willcooke, speaking of which, did you hear from robert about the xenial g-s/snapd-glib SRU?
<desrt> speaking of snaps
<desrt> apparmor-based dbus filtering is .. useful
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, he's sorting it
<seb128> great
<Laney> 01/11 04:05:40 -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: snapd-glib (xenial-proposed/primary) [1.2-0ubuntu2~xenial2]
<Laney> that one?
<willcooke> smells like it
<seb128> it's supposed to be combined to a gnome-software one
<seb128> but yeah, I guess that's part of it
<seb128> I didn't see it because it's in New and my bookmark is on unapproved for SRUs
<seb128> thanks Laney
<seb128> willcooke, oh btw I resolved my geolocation issue, it was my own stupidity :-/
<Laney> nod
<Laney> queuebot is the win
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> need an IRC proxy though
<seb128> willcooke, I played some time ago with a firefox ext to trick the geoloc info to try to watch some tv replay program from another country
<willcooke> seb128, haaaaaaaa!  Awesome
<seb128> willcooke, which changed the provider config and let it like this even after unstalling it...
<willcooke> seb128, I think you owe qengho a beer ;P
<seb128> yeah :p
<seb128> well there was a real issue with the api key spam
<seb128> but yeah, new key solved it
<willcooke> yeah, fair
<willcooke> woot
<willcooke> glad we got to the bottom of it
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> me too
<seb128> sorry for the noise
<seb128> qengho, good work!
<Laney> pitti: can you teach/remind me how to get big_packages / blacklist updated when you're around please?
<Laney> pitti: I can hack the configs in place, just wondering what the official way is (a juju set or something)
<seb128> Trevinho, somebody debugged bug #1635625 and is pointing the issue to a commit of yours
<ubot5`> bug 1635625 in unity (Ubuntu) "Some indicator icons are missing after unlocking the screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635625
<Laney> pitti: Wait, I found "Rolling out new worker code" - so I just do this directly
 * desrt hates the "n things that can come and go have to be merged into a single object, with efficient support for changes" problem
<chrisccoulson> hi willcooke
<willcooke> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> Yeah, I started updating that patch ready for it to be reviewed upstream, and then got sidetracked before the sprint
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, will follow up in msg
<Laney> sudo -u seb128 -i
<Laney> seb128: got a minute to do some demotions?
<Laney> please?
<qengho> seb128: that was funny.
<seb128> Laney, sorry was at lunch, sure, which ones?
<Laney> seb128: the New packages on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvirc/+bug/1636804
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1636804 in libparse-http-useragent-perl (Debian) "perl 5.24 demotions" [Unknown,Confirmed]
 * Laney quickly puts blocks in
<seb128> Laney, ok, doing that in a few minutes
<Laney> merci
<seb128> Laney, when you say "demotion" it's removing them from the release pocket to have them in proposed only?
<seb128> or moving to universe?
<Laney> demoting to proposed
<seb128> k,  what I though, thanks for confirming ;-)
<Laney> hope this goes in today ._.
<seb128> keep some fun for the rest of the cycle!
<Laney> the fun is turning on autosync after that happens
<Laney> /o\
<seb128> oh, we still didn't start autosyncing?
<Laney> waiting for this
<seb128> k, I guess it makes sense
<Laney> would be bad if it got caught up with other transitions
<Laney> enough random stuff as it is
 * Laney lunchies
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
 * flexiondotorg seeks out food
<seb128> flexiondotorg, enjoy
 * flexiondotorg returns
<bschaefer> Mirv, hello, did you happen to have the logs of it crashing on U8? I dont recall testing it on U8 recently
 * bschaefer may have messed up something there :)
<bschaefer> it == sdl1.2
<Laney> looks like perl went in!
<Mirv> bschaefer: not right now, I did try gdb but didn't get anything meaningful besides libmirclient something
<Mirv> bschaefer: it's testable from the PPA regardless
<bschaefer> Mirv, no worries! Ill attempt when i can
<bschaefer> right, just need to make sure my U8 still works
<bschaefer> and everything :)
<DiegoTc> Hi to all, if you could like to help in the Google Code In 2016 (GCI) this year as mentor, please help us adding your  task to the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleCodeIn2016
<seb128> Laney, wooooot ;-)
<Laney> indeed!
<Laney> still those other removals to do
<Laney> britney let them become uninstallable
<Laney> might as well kick them out
<seb128> Laney, I didn't close the lines on that launchpad bug btw, those complex pages are slow to load and the ajax doesn't work and it keeps timeouting, I gave up after a few tries
<Laney> seb128: oh right, did you do them all?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> k, i'll wait for rmadison to agree and then close it
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<desrt> hihi
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  1 15:30:20 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic:
<willcooke> hey desrt
<qengho> Yay!
<desrt> o/
<hikiko> hello :)
<willcooke> Quite a few people out on (public) holiday
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski (out), fjkong, flexiondotorg, happyaron(out), hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark(hols), themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho(out), robert_ancell (out)
<desrt> ya... everyone in germany, except me :p
<flexiondotorg> o/
<attente> isn't it a holiday in italy too?
<seb128> hey
<hikiko> according to duolingo desrt is not a German yet
 * desrt wonders if dual citizens get dual holidays
<seb128> you wish
 * hikiko becomes a citizen of the world
<willcooke> I expect andyrock is out, to lets start with.....
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: attente
<attente> finished the glib bindings for content-hub, needs review
<attente> finished clipboard support in gtk-mir, needs ^
<attente> just had a good discussion with desrt re: the jhbuild snapcraft plugin, thanks desrt :D
<Laney> copy AND paste?
<attente> yes!
<Laney> what a world we live in today
<attente> the future is now
<attente> also fixing fcitx-qimpanel to allow local installation, it currently uses hard-coded paths everywhere
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> good stuff, thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> - researched apparmor dbus filtering and also how flatpak does it
<desrt> - figured out the protocol for secure communication between client and server of dconf proxy (although it won't initially be completely secure for flatpak users)
<desrt> - started implementing
<desrt> - looked at some possible ways to make jhbuilding for snaps work nicer, including bwrap, found a bwrap bug and worked around it
<desrt> - will continue implementing proxy this week
<desrt> - eof.
<willcooke> thanks a lot desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: dgadomski
<willcooke> In the desktop area I have been working on lp#1589401 and lp#1550983 this week.
<willcooke> #topic FJKong_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: FJKong_
<FJKong_> hi
<FJKong_> bug1636249 drop patches from 3.22.0
<FJKong_> setup environment of sbuild,
<FJKong_> yakkety and debian works, failed in zesty,test building blocked by this.
<FJKong_> still trying to fix this
<FJKong_> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong_ - please reach out to the team if you need help getting set up / fixed
<willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Hi
<flexiondotorg> - LP: #1623856 and LP: #1623835 both appear to orignate from python3-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets, I will progress this soon.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623856 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623835 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623835
<flexiondotorg> - Packaged awf to assist with GTK theme debugging and upstreamed - https://launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/+archive/ubuntu/awf
<flexiondotorg> - Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and updated their Trello board.
<flexiondotorg> - Background reading, experimentation and testing for Unity8 and Libertine.
<flexiondotorg> - Saturday afternoon project - https://github.com/flexiondotorg/mircapture
<flexiondotorg> - Currently refactoring notebooks (tabs) and frames for Yakkety/Zesty
<flexiondotorg>     - Consitent notebooks in gedit, gnome-terminal, meld, pavucontrol and other edge cases.
<flexiondotorg>     - Also includes support for awesomebar and add-on tabs in Firefox > 49. LP: #1631208 and LP: #1624738
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1631208 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Tabs in Firefox dialogs are not rendered (for add-on options & Certificate Viewer)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631208
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1624738 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Firefox search and location boxes have black borders when unselected" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624738
<flexiondotorg>  - GTK theme fixes for Disks and Ubiquity in progress for Xenial.
<flexiondotorg> eof
<willcooke> :) thanks flexiondotorg
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> * Only Mon&Tue due to PTO all last week
<willcooke> * sunpinyin/open-gram: FTBFS fix, sync Debian
<willcooke> * network-manager Debian #841509
<willcooke> * librime on armel wontfix'ed due to broken std::future
<seb128> flexiondotorg, is deja-dup using aptdaemon widgets?!
<ubot5`> Debian bug 841509 in network-manager "some types of devices should be ignored when forcing the online status" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/841509
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Yep.
<seb128> weird
<seb128> but alright!
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hello!
<hikiko> - had 3 days off
<hikiko> - fixed bug #1313446 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z61tQ6z41A)
<hikiko> - finalizing the branch ^ to submit the MP
<hikiko> - started working on replacing shadows with borders in low gfx mode
<ubot5`> bug 1313446 in unity (Ubuntu) "window disappears on toggle shade" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313446
<hikiko> - have some old branches for review
<hikiko> EOF
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> oh, oops, was inside cdimage
<Laney> HI!
<Laney> oh that wasn't actually slow
<Laney> this is an underwhelming update
<Laney> â¢ Short week (off Friday)
<Laney> â¢ Can't remember doing anything other than perl this week (lots of packages/tests to fix) - but it migrated, so woot
<Laney> â¢ Going to turn autosync back on today
<Laney> ð³
<willcooke> :) thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Fixing gyp/gn build changes in Chromium. About a dozen problems. Nearly done.
<qengho> * ...then to release Cr 54.
<qengho> * Adding GPG crypto sig checking for snapcraft sources.
<qengho> * Helping Tor project with snap adoption.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ uploaded a snapd-glib packaging fix to zesty and yakkety to help with the g-s/snap/auth issue
<seb128> â¢ did some tweaks to hud-on-systemd changes and got that landed in zesty
<seb128> â¢ catching up with recent snappy discussions and started getting ready to work on the platform snap
<seb128> â¢ some archive admin work
<seb128> â¢ reinstalled my inspiron and spent some time tweaking my configs to be able to easily work on zesty while my main config is still on xenial
<seb128> â¢ had another look at geoloc not working in firefox, turned out to be my fault, doh! (I tried to trick some website a while ago to make them believe I was somewhere else and that left my config screwed)
<seb128> â¢ launchpad bugs triaging and some discussions/nagging about some of the bugs
<seb128> </thisweek>
<willcooke> :) thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Continued working on bluetooth issues for Xenial/yakkety, focusing on bug 1574324. The fix for this is in the bag, but before I SRU it, I want to resolve another sisue relating to profile selection, which I am currently working out on xenial. I think it is a race condition, because when one freshly sets up a bluetooth device with hfp and a2dp support, one cannot select a2dp support, but after a pulse restart, it works. I even
<willcooke> tried with yakkety bluez and pulse in xenial.
<willcooke> * The fix for the above bug is now in zesty, and I've started working on other package updates for zesty, in particular the accessibility stack, so I can start testing it with Qt/Gtk under Mir in coming weeks.
<ubot5`> bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574324
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released versions 1.11.5 and 1.11.6 with all the bug fixes of the last weeks, especially to make all working correctly with IPP Everywhere printers after the Sprint experience: Build system now supports cross-compiling without Ghostscript, Poppler utils, nad/or MuPDF on build machine, let filters look for utilities via $PATH, doc typos, page logging for IPP Everywhere printers, correct PWG Raster output without unprintable
<tkamppeter> margins, ...
<tkamppeter> - CUPS Snap: Implemented font support and it works now. First text jobs working through snap.
<tkamppeter> - Ghostscript: Upstream fix on PWG Raster output, so that a full page bitmap without removal of unprintable margins is generated.
<tkamppeter> - Prepared SRUs for cups-filters and Ghostscript on Yakkety to fix IPP Everywhere printer support.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke>  Â· Added more tests and fixes to qmenumodel gvariant/qvariant converter
<willcooke>  Â· Use new RadioMenu and ButtonMenu in unity8
<willcooke>  Â· Some tuning (memory/speed and look) to the Calendar indicator
<willcooke>  . Use new calendar features in u8 (support for event days and week numbers)
<willcooke>  Â· Fixed the SliderMenu height and GroupMessage count color
<willcooke>  Â· Fixed a libido (indicator-datetime in u7) crash and SRUed
<willcooke>  Â· Fixed some unity8 launcher weak tests
<willcooke>  Â· Some more work in snappyfying electron apps
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - snapd-qt binding work
<willcooke> - unity-greeter updates
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-01 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got news?
<jbicha> GNOME 3.22 is in Zesty. Two major packages still at 3.20 are gnome-terminal ( bug 1636666 ) and nautilus ( bug 1635988 )
<ubot5`> bug 1636666 in vte2.91 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcre2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1636666
<willcooke> Oh, I'm on PTO again on Monday
<ubot5`> bug 1635988 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Update nautilus to 3.22" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635988
<jbicha> nautilus 3.22 still needs a bit more work. Help is appreciated with that
<jbicha> GTK+ 3.22 (LTS) deprecated a bunch of stuff that will be dropped in GTK+ 4; there may be more deprecations (they added several in the recent 3.22.2 stable release)
<jbicha> EOF
<willcooke> :) thanks jbicha - will look for someone to assist with that ^
<seb128> thanks jbicha for the work
 * seb128 read those and see bug #1632027
<ubot5`> bug 1632027 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "New Document feature missing from Nautilus 3.20+" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632027
<seb128> shrug, we disabled that and didn't bring it back before release? :-(
<seb128> I think we should deal with regressions from previous cycles before doing more version updates
<jbicha> well I'm trying to be careful to not add more regressions
<seb128> thanks for that
<seb128> still I think we are having the wrong mentality there
<seb128> we focus on new versions before quality and accept regressions
<seb128> but that's probably not a debate to have in the meeting
<seb128> willcooke, I think we can wrap up there?
<willcooke> yeah, lets end the meeting and can carry on withthat
<willcooke> Oh, I wrote this but it popped up in the middle of jbicha's update...
<willcooke> I'm on pto on Monday
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  1 15:51:23 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-11-01-15.30.moin.txt
<seb128> saw that
<seb128> enjoy!
<willcooke> thanks all
<jbicha> seb128: did you read the Ars review? http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/10/ubuntu-16-10-convergence-is-in-a-holding-pattern-consistencys-here-instead/
<hikiko> bye people :) happy tuesday evening!
<seb128> hikiko, have a nice evening
<seb128> jbicha, no, reading it now though
<jbicha> the stability is appreciated but some users miss having new stuff too
<seb128> "The biggest and best news to arrive with 16.10 is probably the move to Linux kernel 4.8."
<seb128> sure, users and reviews like new shiny
<seb128> but then you use it daily and you appreciate when things don't bug ;-)
<Laney> Everyone talks about us reducing our maintenance costs by dropping patches, but this is what happens when you do that
<andyrock> I wanted to attend the meeting but I forgot the time change
<FJKong_> hi all: E: Couldn't download dists/zesty/main/binary-amd64/Packages
<andyrock> XD
<FJKong_> full log here:
<FJKong_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23412018/
<FJKong_> still blocked by this
<andyrock> #1 unity8 (updated some branches and a couple of branches to refactor a little bit unity8 quicklists)
<seb128> jbicha, that review is a bit weird, his main focus is basically "Skylake was not reliable on older kernel and 4.8 fixed that"
<seb128> hey andyrock
<Laney> FJKong_: Probably pass --debootstrap-mirror="http://zh.archive.ubuntu.com" or whatever your m irror is
<andyrock> #2 unity7 (reviews, a branch to fix force quit dialog on hidpi, some debugging on the double lock issue - i'll fix it tomorrow)
<andyrock> willcooke ^^^
<andyrock> hey seb128
<seb128> andyrock, thanks for the update, and enjoy your national vac day!
<jbicha> seb128: well, it's hard to find new features in 16.10 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseNotes#New_features_in_16.10
<willcooke> thx andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, did you end up figuring out what to do with the lockscreen/env? Unsure if you saw but p_itti replied this morning saying that email is better this week, he's at a conf and not much on IRC
<andyrock> yeah I was the ping, I'll write an email asap
<andyrock> it's not a security issue so we can take our time to fix it
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, not a lot of fancy mostly dealing with stack updates fall-outs :-/
<seb128> andyrock, right, double lock is better than no lock ;-)
<seb128> Laney, yeah, the patch balance is a bit tricky but if we believe something is important enough to carry a distro patch we should stick to our decision imho and not randomly disable those to unblock updates to re-enable them the cycle after
<jbicha> 'New Document' can be SRU'd but it didn't look like a trivial patch update to me
<seb128> sure it can
<seb128> what I'm arguing against is landing updates with known regressions
<seb128> we are putting all those efforts on britney & such making sure we increase quality
<seb128> but at the same time we accept to land things we know are regressing
<jbicha> staying at 3.14 much longer would mean we effectively created yet another nautilus fork
<Laney> It wasn't an option if we were upgrading to gtk 3.20
<Laney> You'd have had to backport those changes
<jbicha> I think we're doing pretty good balancing stability with keeping things from getting too old
<Laney> at which point it would definitely be a fork
<seb128> yeah, I'm not sure
<seb128> we lack a product definition for the non LTS versions
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128, willcooke This is the current state of the notebook refactoring - http://imgur.com/a/a97xX
<flexiondotorg> Feedback welcome.
<seb128> if those are meant to be not-recommended-to-non-tech-users I guess it's fine having regressions
<seb128> if we want quality to consistent and any version to be solid we might be a bit off
 * xnox uses xenial on the main (work) desktop
 * seb128 too
<seb128> I think we should stop releasing nonLTS versions
<seb128> just go rolling
<xnox> or have annual releases.
<seb128> if we consider those are dev snapshots to the next LTS
<xnox> only in april
<seb128> well my point is rather than we should only release solid versions to users
<seb128> if we consider non LTS ones as rough-on-the-edge we might as well not flag them
<Laney> I think it's a mistake to forever commit us to maintaining every patch that someone ever wrote
<Laney> without a full team working on the desktop
<Laney> so I don't really agree with the premise that it's a regression
<jbicha> I'm not sure that 16.10 had more regresions than 16.04 LTS at release
<seb128> jbicha, I'm sure it has
<seb128> not speaking about linux kernel not supporting modern intel hardware aside
<seb128> which is not something we control
<jbicha> *cough* Software *cough*
<seb128> it's not better/different in 16.10...
<seb128> we didn't change it at all this cyckle
<Laney> and I don't think that killing 3/4 of the releases will fix that
<Laney> that's not going to get more people working on the product
<seb128> no
<seb128> but it's going to mislead less users thinking the new version is something stable they should consider using on their machine
<Laney> It's going to mean that nobody even tries to achieve release quality more than once every two years
<seb128> it might also means that new gtk/nautilus could land a week later with regressions fixed though
<seb128> rather than needing to land it now despite of issues because of the schedule
<willcooke>  flexiondotorg looks like there is 1 px light coloured border around the top of the tabs (http://imgur.com/a/cbliv) (it was a PITA to hide last time, so I noticed it) - also I think we need more contrast between the active tab and the others (IMO)
<seb128> anyway no point arguing much over it, we are not realistically going to change the release cycle or anything
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, actually, I think it's just the background behind the radiused corners
<jbicha> changing the release cycle though could make sabdfl's job easier thinking of a new codename schemeâ¦
<seb128> indeed :-)
<Laney> If the team isn't going to go back to all working on the desktop then we should stop maintaining low priority patches
<Laney> flexiondotorg: The gradiant is a bit too strong for me in the widget factory
<seb128> flexiondotorg, looks fine to me but I'm not really picky on details...
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Yeah I was think about simply shading it instead.
<Laney> and inactive ones sort of look folded inwards
<Laney> otherwise, nice
<Laney> can you eliminate the outer border?
<seb128> flexiondotorg, not saying the job is not good, just that you shouldn't trust my opinion much about UI details ;-)
<pitti> Laney: figured out the config update?
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> I didn't find a place for the lxc blacklist
<Laney> so I just hacked that in place
<pitti> Laney: for s390x? yes, indeed; I keep a copy worker-{armhf,s390x}.conf on wendigo which is the master copy
<Laney> pitti: ya, I updated that one too
<pitti> Laney: and otherwise this just gets parallel-scp'ed
<Laney> k, that's what I did, cheers
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Would you like gedit and gnome-terminal to have a more pronounced contrast than in notebooks elsewhere?
<pitti> Laney: this was slated to go away a long time ago, so I never bothered to automate this more :(
<pitti> Laney: great
<seb128> Laney, I can agree with that, we could declare a "reset" and drop all the patches and go back to a more upstream experience, it's just a different product requirement choice and nobody is really making a call for us on that (the other choice is just to stick to what we have and not change anything, not even upÃ date  versions if we don't have the resources to do it)
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 !
<seb128> pitti, oui, j'ai un rhume mais sinon Ã§a va ! et toi ? tu es oÃ¹ cette semaine ?
<FJKong_> Laney: problem solved!
<Laney> FJKong_: good
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, ummm.  Yeah, I think that's a good idea.  Because the tabs in those apps have slightly  different "meanings" - like a normal notebook in a settings window for example - not so important, but a different terminal tab/gedit doc - much more important that you can flick between them an know where you are at a glance.  Also +1 laney's comments on the gradient.  I think a shade is probably better.  But - all said - great job!
<flexiondotorg> OK, I'll up the contrast in gedit/terminal and make it less so generally.
<pitti> seb128: argh, get well soon!
<Laney> pitti: how's Bucharest?
<flexiondotorg> Edge cases such a meld preferences and puvacontrol are also consistent now.
<pitti> seb128: je suis Ã  Bucharest pour le cloud sprint
<pitti> seb128: roadmap review yesterday/today, IOW "not actually do anything"..
<pitti> Laney: surprisingly nice! we did a nice long walk through the old town last night
<pitti> but no photos, it gets dark at 17:30 already
<Laney> flexiondotorg: In case you missed the comment (forgot to highlight you) - the outer border in widget-factory, please try to get rid of it
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<flexiondotorg> Laney, which outer border?
<Laney> around the empty area of the tabs
<Laney> it makes the corner with tabs look odd too; a kind of square box there
<Laney> (widget factory)
<flexiondotorg> Sec, another screenshot coming and an explanation...
<flexiondotorg> Laney, http://imgur.com/a/ETJvT
<flexiondotorg> That outer border is from a frame.
<flexiondotorg> No it's not.
<Laney> It's a notebook.frame
<flexiondotorg> That outer border is required to get FF notebooks working.
<flexiondotorg> So what I tried to do was making it look better integrated throughout.
<flexiondotorg> Remove it, and no notebooks/tabs in FF add-ons and things like the certificate viewer.
<flexiondotorg> This was the best compromise I could come up with.
<Laney> I don't like having to compromise all notebooks for firefox being weird
<Laney> Can take a look at some point
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to raise an issue upstream to request FF uses specific selectors.
<flexiondotorg> But until then, it is either compromise or no tabs in some of the FF interface.
<Laney> That's not a nice ultimatum
 * Laney would like to at least have a look when the MP is up
<flexiondotorg> Sure
<FJKong_> Laney: after package built, I need to install zesty from daily build iso and install it?
<Laney> FJKong_: Yeah, test the bits that the patches touched and then make a merge proposal if it works
<FJKong_> Laney: from the patch, the only difference is about gtk version require so it will pass as long as it can run?
<Laney> FJKong_: One of them was about GTKSourceView searching, so try that quickly
<FJKong_> o
<Laney> night!
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> calling it a day as well
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers!
<willcooke> see ya seb
<willcooke> me too
<willcooke> night all
<flexiondotorg> And me... night desktopers
<Guest1796> Hello, would anyone familiar with gtk3's global menu support know if anything other than properly configured DBus socket is needed to work?
<Guest1796> Also, what all font packages are installed on a normal Ubuntu desktop installation?
<robert_ancell_> dobey, were you planning on using snapd-qt with C++ or QML?
<dobey> robert_ancell: mostly c++ i think
<robert_ancell> dobey, it should be pretty much done on that branch (minus the async calls not working yet). I'm keen for some feeback on the API.
<dobey> robert_ancell: i'm just using the C API at the moment, to get the login working
<muktupavels> robert_ancell, pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1637758
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637758 in Light Display Manager "Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,New]
<robert_ancell> muktupavels, I'll let pitti look at that one
<Guest1796> Hello, would anyone familiar with gtk3's global menu support know if anything other than properly configured DBus socket is needed to work?
<Guest1796> Also, what all font packages are installed on a normal Ubuntu desktop installation?
<attente> Guest1796: hey, what are you trying to do?
<attente> Guest1796: if you're trying to snap something and get the global menu bar and fonts working, you might want to look at https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/06/ubuntu-app-developer-blog-announcing-new-snap-desktop-launchers/
<Guest1796> attente: Thanks for responding. I haven't used any snaps yet, so I don't know how they behave; my issue's with apps running in LXC containers like the ones set up by Libertine.
<Guest1796> As long as the DBus socket is accessible in the containers, gtk2 apps automatically integrates with the global menu. But that is not the case for gtk3 apps. I'm trying to figure out why not.
<attente> Guest1796: yeah, i would think they should just work as long as those apps are exporting their menus properly on the session bus
<Guest1796> attente: Well, it doesn't.
<attente> Guest1796: can you check the xprop on the window and grep for _GTK?
<Guest1796> And the fonts are separate issue. Any languages other than English doesn't show in apps running in containers. I want to know the complete sets of font packages a normal desktop installation carries.
<Guest1796> attente: In a sec.
<attente> Guest1796: is there a way to mount /usr/share/fonts into your container?
<Guest1796> attente: There is... Dammi, why didn't I think of that.
<attente> :)
<Guest1796> attente: I need to run xprop within the container, right? It doesn't seem to be installed... give me a few minutes.
<attente> Guest1796: i don't think you need to if the app is sharing the same x socket in order to pop up a window
<attente> xprop on the host i think would work
<attente> *from the host
<Guest1796> On the host there's no output.
<Guest1796> I did: $ xprop | grep _GTK
<attente> hmmm
<attente> is unity-gtk3-module installed in the container?
<Guest1796> gtk3 apps running on host integrates with global menu just fine.
<Guest1796> It wasn't, but I installed it. Doesn't help.
<attente> hmmm
<Guest1796> Wait, I'll try it in another container. Maybe I'm wrong.
<attente> yeah, i'm running out of ideas here
<attente> what app are you trying to run?
<attente> i'll try it in a container over here
<Guest1796> Eclipse, Firefox.
<Guest1796> Both are gtk3 as of latest version.
<attente> do other gtk3 apps work at all?
<Guest1796> Apps run fine, global menus do not.
<Guest1796> gtk2 apps don't have issues with global menu.
<attente> i mean other apps' global menu. something like dconf-editor
<attente> or nautilus
<Guest1796> Ah, I didn't try it with apps I didn't plan to run in containers.
<attente> i'll try nautilus over here
<Guest1796> First, let me try with unity-gtk3-module first. I remember trying it, but it's not installed on any of the containers I currently have.
<attente> Guest1796: i just tried it with dconf-editor and something is certainly broken here
<attente> i can pop up the menu but it's empty
<attente> oh. probably because i'm not sharing the dbus socket
<Guest1796> attente: Install in Libertine, it'll set up everything for yoyu.
<Guest1796> Libertine works fine on Unity 7.
<Guest1796> attente: And yep, I installed unity-gtk3-module in the Eclipse containers. No change.
<attente> i can't seem to install any packages in a libertine container
<attente> i'm not even sure where it's creating the container
<attente> lxc-ls and lxc list both show nothing
<attente> oh. it's working now. i guess it took a really long time to create
<Guest1796> You can use libertine-container-manager install-package to do it from Terminal.
<attente> Guest1796: how do you launch an app from the container?
<Guest1796> Ah, right, on Unity 7 just do libertine-launch container-name app-name.
<attente> ah, ok
<attente> so it works for dconf-editor at least
<Guest1796> Global menu?
<attente> Guest1796: yeah. can you install it in yours and see if that works?
<Guest1796> On it.
<attente> i tried gnome-system-log too
<attente> trying firefox
<Guest1796> attente: It works for me. Only it says, Unknown application name when I highlight and click on the menu.
<attente> oh. i'm supposed to launch with -i
<Guest1796> ?
<attente> Guest1796: my guess is the Unknown application name is there because a desktop file is missing
<attente> Guest1796: if i install dconf-editor on my host and then run it, it knows what to put there
<Guest1796> attente: Possibly, but it doesn't seem to be a problem for gtk2 apps. Does Firefox's global menu work?
<attente> Guest1796: doesn't even launch. returns a BadAccess. did you have to bind mount the x socket into the container?
<attente> Guest1796: (sorry, i'm going to have to dash for dinner, how much later do you think you'll be around?)
<Guest1796> attente: For containers before Libertine, yes. Libertine containers did everything necessary for me.
<attente> hmm
<Guest1796> attente: It's already 2:30 AM for me. I don't mind being awake till 4 or so.
<attente> this is a brand new install, so i'm not sure why that X error is happening
<Guest1796> If dconf-editor works, X error is really weird.
<attente> Guest1796: ok, i wouldn't wait up then. maybe we can follow up tomorrow. the smarter desktop guys are usually around in the morning anyways
<Guest1796> attente: Morning for you... would be in how many hours from now?
<attente> Guest1796: i'm UTC-0400, so morning is in about 15 hours
<Guest1796> Gotcha. Will keep the IRC open so this nick remains.
<attente> Guest1796: but i mean your morning is when there are more people around to help you :)
<Guest1796> Ah, my morning? Okay.
<Guest1796> attente: Thanks for all the help so far. Specially for the font mount.
<attente> Guest1796: no problem! (your late morning/early lunch actually)
<attente> Guest1796: ta ta!
<Guest1796> attente: Ah, leave me some nicks to bother at that time.
<attente> Guest1796: seb128 i'd go to first. if desrt is around, she's knows the menu stuff most
<Guest1796> Thank you again! Won't bother you any longer!
<attente> Guest1796: not a bother :)
<attente> Guest1796: hope you can get it working!
<Guest1796> Yes!
<ShinyShoes> Noob here, getting hash mismatch error while updating my repos, deleting /var/lib/apt/lists/* won't fix...any suggestions?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-02
<ShinyShoes> no one?
<TheMuso> ShinyShoes: Well, for a start, this is not a support channel. Try #ubuntu.
<hikiko> hi
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> happyaron, yo!
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hey seb128 - how goes?
<willcooke> desktoppers - there is an "all hands" meeting this morning (and again later for those in the US etc)
<seb128> doing ok, woke up at 6am and the cold was annoying enough after being lying down for hours that I couldn't get back to sleep so I started the computer at 6:30, not quite p_itti early but early enough for my taste
<seb128> willcooke, how are you doing?
<willcooke> seb128, much the same actually :)
<willcooke> except I didnt sit at the computer
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 willcooke hikiko
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> willcooke, wise :-)
<seb128> well, on the good sign it means I can call it a day a bit earlier this afternoon or maybe take a nap ;-)
<seb128> sign->side
<seb128> flexiondotorg, are you still looking at bug #1623856? or are you blocked/needing help on that?
<ubot5`> bug 1623856 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<willcooke> nap!
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
<willcooke> oh, that reminds me  - seb128 we still need to work out what to do with update manager in X
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Still on my list. Assistance welcome. Was going to look at it today to take a break from glaring at CSS.
<willcooke> good plan flexiondotorg
<seb128> willcooke, ok, right, thanks for the reminder
<seb128> flexiondotorg, k, well have a look today and maybe bring on the channel for discussion if you get stucked?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I'll ping you a bit later.
<flexiondotorg> Currently listening to the catchy music ;-)
<seb128> :-)
<hikiko> morning flexiondotorg willcooke seb128
<hikiko> and happyaron
<hikiko> and desktopers
<seb128> hey hikiko, had a good productive morning? ;-)
<willcooke> hey hikiko - congrats on fixing the laptop
<hikiko> thanks :) well my boyfriend did the dirty job I was just reading him the assembly instructions :P
<willcooke> We call that delegation
<willcooke> ;)
<hikiko> hahahah
<hikiko> :)
<hikiko> fix by proxy :p
<happyaron> hikiko: morning, :)
<happyaron> and congrats!
<seb128> hey happyaron, how are you?
<happyaron> seb128: great, you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<andyrock> morning all
<Laney> hi!
<seb128> hey andyrock Laney
 * Laney stabs dnsmasq
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> doing good!
<andyrock> hey seb128
<Laney> it was a bit frosty this morning
<Laney> brrr
<Laney> you?
<Laney> hi andyrock too!
<andyrock> super well, yesterday was moving day
<andyrock> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, cold woke me up at 6am so I started the day early, doing good otherwise
<seb128> andyrock, where did you move?
<seb128> Laney, listening to the townhall ;-)
<andyrock> different flat
<Laney> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=834722
<ubot5`> Debian bug 834722 in dnsmasq-base "dnsmasq-base: dnsmasq does not forward queries after recieving servers via DBus second time" [Normal,Open]
<Laney> the townhall??????????
<Laney> the WHAT?
<andyrock> Barcelona city center, small but cozy
 * Laney missed the memo
<hikiko> hi andyrock Laney
<andyrock> hey hikiko
<Laney> oh I just didn't read the memo :S
<seb128> Laney, ready allhands or warthogs lists!
<seb128> read
<seb128> lol
<happyaron> hey Laney andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, back in Barcelona this year then?
<andyrock> yep
<seb128> nice
<Laney> hey happyaron
<Laney> how are you?
<happyaron> great!
 * Laney builds that dnsmasq patch
<Laney> maybe my woes will end
<andyrock> seb128: i wrote pitti an email
<seb128> andyrock, thanks
<seb128> one more systemd user session regression, the recent section not working in nautilus
<seb128> andyrock, that one is not for you though ;-)
<andyrock> i'm woderning why gnome-shell session has XDG_SESSION_ID exposed
<andyrock> seb128: is gnome-shell started using systemd?
<andyrock> because I can't find its service file
<seb128> dunno
<Laney> no
<Laney> we were breaking new ground by doing this mostly
<andyrock> ah btw slow internet here http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5764747699
<Laney> you should complain
<andyrock> ah ok so that's why it works for them XD
<Laney> quick trip to the post office, back shortly
<andyrock> seb128, Trevinho https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/
<andyrock> under User Object
<andyrock> "Display encodes which graphical session should be used as primary UI display for the use. It is a structure encoding session ID and object path of the session to use."
<andyrock> we can actually use this to get the session_id
<Trevinho> mh
<seb128> good morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> heya seb128
<Laney> andyrock: That looks right to me
<Laney> it even gives you the object path directly
<FJKong_> Laney: I push the patch to https://launchpad.net/~fjkong/gedit/ubuntu could you help me to review it? thanks
<Laney> FJKong_: Cool, thanks! I will try to soon - could you make a merge proposal please?
<FJKong_> Laney: open a bug?
<Laney> no
<Laney> on that link, click "Propose for merging" and fill it out
<FJKong_> oh i see
<Laney> you should target it to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gedit/ubuntu and not lp:gedit
<FJKong_> I am not sure if I have permission to push there
<Laney> you don't need it to make a proposal
<FJKong_> Laney: done
<Laney> FJKong_: ok, nice, will check it later on
<FJKong_> o/
<Guest1796> Hello, seb128. Last night (my time), I had a discussion with attente about a global menu issue I'm facing. He (?) told me to talk to you today.
<Guest1796> I've been running apps in containers like the ones made by Libertine for some time now. As long as the containers can access the host's DBus socket, global menu works fine for gtk2 apps, but gtk3 apps continue to have a dedicated menu bar.
<Guest1796> To make the matter more complicated, some gtk3 apps does do the global menu fine. By the suggesstions of attente, I installed dconf-editor and nautilus. Those apps' seem to integrate perfectly with global menu. Other apps, that I want to run in containers, like Firefox and Eclipse, don't do the global menu.
<attente> Guest1796: hey, i think i figured it out. you also need libdbusmenu-gtk3-4
<attente> (for firefox at least)
<seb128> hey attente & Guest1796
<seb128> good if attente figured it out ;-)
<Guest1796> attente: Thanks, I'll try it out right now.
<Guest1796> How did You figure it out.
<attente> hi seb128 Guest1796
<Laney> attente knows all
<attente> Guest1796: ^ it's libdbusmenu-gtk3-4
<Guest1796> attente: Yea, I'm asking how did you manage to figure it out.
<attente> oh. i was in the bathroom thinking...
<Laney> ...
<Guest1796> Shower thoughts, got it.
<attente> haha
<Laney> It's the colour changing lights
<seb128> I was going to say
<seb128> how is the tennis elbow going btw? ;-)
<kenvandine> attente, thanks for the content-hub-glib branch, however there's a merge conflict
<attente> terrible! i don't even play tennis!
 * willcooke . o O ( minds in the gutter you lot )
<attente> kenvandine: ok, i'll refresh it
<seb128> :-/
<kenvandine> attente, thx!
<seb128> hey kenvandine, you are up early!
<kenvandine> seb128, been working a couple hours already :)
<seb128> urg
<kenvandine> i start early on wednesday
<kenvandine> so i can lead a coding club at the school in the afternoon :)
<kenvandine> it's worth it :)
<Guest1796> That's cool. What languages do you teach?
<seb128> nice
<kenvandine> we're working on python right now
<Guest1796> 3?
<kenvandine> moving to writing minigames for minecraft in javascript soon
<Guest1796> Speaking of languages, I want to learn C, but any guides I find don't mention which version of C standard it's about. :/
<Guest1796> attente: It doesn't work for Eclipse. I'll try Firefox, but I'm connected to IRC using ChatZilla, so will leave momentarily.
<attente> Guest1796: ok. i only tried it with firefox. what version of eclipse are you running?
<Guest1796> attente: Neon.
<attente> Guest1796: is that installed from the archive or from a download online or ...?
<Guest1796> Download. I don't know of any archives shipping latest Eclipse.
<Guest1796> attente: On host, global menu works, if that's your doubt.
<Guest1796> Restarting Firefox now, BRB.
<kenvandine> attente, how far along is your gtk branch that uses the pasteboard?
<attente> kenvandine: it works, i'm hoping to merge it as soon as the content-hub-glib is merged
<kenvandine> woot!
<willcooke> woot indeed :)
<attente> :D
<kenvandine> that's very exciting
<attente> just let me build it here and make sure the refresh works too
<Guest76787> attente: It worked for Firefox, thank you!
<attente> Guest76787: \o/
<Guest76787> And about Eclipse, I remember it working fine on host, but I could be wrong.
<attente> i'll try it in a bit
<Guest76787> I'll install Java on host as well, to try it.
<attente> kenvandine: ok, i think the content-hub-glib branch should be good now
<kenvandine> attente, thx
<Guest76787> attente: Global menu working perfectly fine in Eclipse on host.
<Guest76787> attente: The UI looks quite different from running it in container, in fact.
<attente> Guest76787: ok. which jre are you using?
<Guest76787> attente: 8.
<Guest76787> I'll upload some screenshots, give me a moment. Is imgur OK?
<attente> Guest76787: sure
<Guest76787> attente: http://imgur.com/a/PXRIi
 * flexiondotorg lunches
<attente> that's pretty disconcerting...
<Guest76787> attente: I'm thinking there's some specific package for integrating Java SWT into GTK.
<Guest76787> attente: Or maybe not, why'd it be installed in a vanilla desktop install.
<seb128> there used to be one but that stopped working iirc
<seb128> http://www.webupd8.org/2015/10/ubuntu-1510-and-1504-update-disables.html
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jayatana/2.7-0ubuntu4
<Guest76787> seb128: It now works without it.
<seb128> weird
<Guest76787> Look at the screenshot. It's working on host, but not on container.
<attente> i'm pretty stumped tbh
<Guest76787> ... The pleasures of developing an extensive and modular system...
<Guest76787> Host Eclipse logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23416155/
<Guest76787> Container Eclipse logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23416160/
 * flexiondotorg returns
<Guest76787> attente, seb128, look at the logs if it helps. Personally, I can't find anything of note there.
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I've looking at LP: #1623856
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623856 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<flexiondotorg> If you're up for sharing some insight, I'm game :-)
<seb128> did you find an easy way to get the widget/situation displayed to test/iterate?
<seb128> or are you basically going through an "download some upgrade" game every time?
<flexiondotorg> I've got a VM snapshot I can revert to.
<flexiondotorg> I've got a reproducible setup.
<flexiondotorg> And error logs and use gtk inspector to identify the selectors.
<attente> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/hbuiAfJV/Screenshot%20from%202016-11-02%2010-20-21.png
<attente> Guest76787: sorry, i'm not having much luck here. fwiw, that is what it looks like in my container ^
<seb128> flexiondotorg, let me have a look
<flexiondotorg> seb128, See the GTK warnings here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deja-dup/+bug/1623835/comments/2
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1623835 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged]
<flexiondotorg> seb128, And here is the GTK inspector info - http://imgur.com/a/05gRH
<seb128> flexiondotorg, in what file is the ui described?
<flexiondotorg> I was just about to start looking at that.
<flexiondotorg> seb128, You'll remember I said the Deja Dup issue is the same?
<seb128> yes, which still seems weird ot me
<flexiondotorg> The reason is, the first action Deja Dup performs is to install some plugins using aptdaemon.
<seb128> ah right
<seb128> well deja-dup has the same issue on its backup view
<flexiondotorg> Ah, OK.
<Guest76787> attente: I see, thank you.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, step 1 is to find where the UI is described
<flexiondotorg> Got the three .ui files open.
<seb128> they are from aptdaemon ?
<flexiondotorg> Yes.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, k, found an easy way to reproduce, the aptdaemon source has a gtk3-demo.py small ui which does it
<flexiondotorg> Thanks.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, that seems to fix it
<seb128> flexiondotorg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23416391/
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Thanks.
<flexiondotorg> What was your process of get to that?
<seb128> looked at bugzilla.gnome.org bugs since march which mention size or height issues in their title/descriptions
<seb128> also the error your shared
<seb128> to try to poke around to see if others had similar issues and how they solved it
<seb128> there were some suggestion to tweak min content size on scrolled windows
<seb128> so I grepped aptdaemon's source for scroll
<flexiondotorg> Right, OK.
<seb128> that gave me 1 source/section
<flexiondotorg> Understood.
<seb128> then I tried the tweak
<seb128> I'm not sure it's the right/correct/only solution but that should go
<flexiondotorg> So I've notice the aptdaemon gtk3 widgets are using deprecated GtkVBox and GtkHBox.
<seb128> gtk geometry allocation and why things behaves differently between versions is always weird to me
<flexiondotorg> Is that worth addressing?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Thanks for the time.
<seb128> yw!
<flexiondotorg> I can test futher.
<seb128> I wouldn't bother porting aptdaemon to modern gtk
<seb128> it works with current gtk3 which isn't going to change
<flexiondotorg> And also use what I learned to work on Deja Dup backup.
<seb128> if we invest work is likely going to drop aptdaemon and just use packagekit
<seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Yep, I agree about leaving aptdaemon widget on gtk3.
<flexiondotorg> I did remove the HBox and VBox deprecations from some MATE bits, but ultimately didn't gain anything other than soothing my OCD.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, just for extra infa, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=771743 was the bug that hinted me to try to min-content-height tweak
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 771743 in Mouse "Mouse panel very small when touchpad is present, on Wayland" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I've also looked at the zebra striping bug.
<seb128> what was that one again?
<flexiondotorg> There is an patch available, that could be refactored.
<seb128> oh the list one
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/945430
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 945430 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Lists lack zebra-striping" [Low,Triaged]
<seb128> right
<seb128> would be nice to fix but that's probably not a priority
<flexiondotorg> The patch has been reviewed and updated upstream a few times, but not accepted yet.
<seb128> I wouldn't invest too much effort into it
<flexiondotorg> OK, I'll have a stab at it one evening.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> annoying but typical example of GTK upstream :-/
<seb128> "I didn't much time thinking about the removal at the time because none of the themes seemed to use it..."
<flexiondotorg> seb128, The patch add new selectors.
<flexiondotorg> So themes would have to change as well.
<seb128> right
<flexiondotorg> The existing theme syntax is no longer valid.
<seb128> well, would it change look on an unmodified theme?
<seb128> oh, that's more annoying
<flexiondotorg> It does require a patch and theme change to reinstate stripes.
<flexiondotorg> Which may be good enough reason to not prioritise it?
<seb128> it's a regression in 16.10 only right?
<flexiondotorg> What the striping?
<seb128> the bug is a bit confusing
<seb128> it says gtk 3.18 allowed to do that but 3.19 removed the option
<seb128> unsure our theme was using the feature in 3.18/16.04 though
<seb128> the launchpad bug suggests it wasn't
<flexiondotorg> I think striping is missing from 16.04 too. Just double checking some themes...
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757495 first comment suggests that 3.18 made it possible at least
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 757495 in Widget: GtkTreeView "GtkTreeView odd/even row styling no longer works" [Normal,New]
<andyrock> seb128, Laney, Trevinho this should fix the issue (works on X, i'm checking it on Y)
<seb128> andyrock, "this"?
<flexiondotorg> Stripes missing on my 16.04.
<andyrock> i assume using /org/freedesktop/login1/user/self is safe
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/unity/fix-double-lock/+merge/309859
<seb128> andyrock, using user/self makes sense to me
<Laney> Never heard of that
<Laney> is it documented?
<andyrock> dunno
<andyrock> but I'll check if it works properly
<Laney> I mean is it guaranteed to not be randomly removed?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Sould the update-manager fix be SRUd to Yakkety also?
<Laney> there's no mention of 'self' in https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/
<seb128> flexiondotorg, my understanding is that gtk 3.18 was making it possible and 3.19 removed the support for it, so basically we could probably add it back to the lts by tweaking the theme
<seb128> where > 16.10 would be more work
<seb128> flexiondotorg, I wouldn't bother looking at it for > 3.18, not high priority enough, might be a nice SRU for the LTS if it's an easy tweak but again a low priority/friday afternoon thing
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I'll double check the theme but I'm sure I've seen the appropriate styling that should enable it.
<flexiondotorg> For 16.04.
<Laney> I don't know that you can do it for treeview rows with 3.20
<Laney> Someone's phone is ringing in the library
 * Laney does a Very British Hard Stare
<seb128> you probably can't
<Laney> He's withered to nothing
<Laney> Success
<seb128> that's what the bugzilla bug I pointed before says
<Laney> Yeah I think you'd need to add some style classes or something
<seb128> Company removed the option because he though noone was using it
<Laney> ah yes
<Laney> there's a patch but it's not finished / committed
<seb128> right
<Laney> so we could restore it once that is done
 * Laney subscribez
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I doubt they are going to do much work/changes on gtk3 now though
<Laney> shrug
<Laney> find out at the time
<seb128> Laney, does http://paste.ubuntu.com/23416391/ looks like right or a hack to you? (that fixes the update-manager details scrollview being not having enough height)
<Laney> seb128: I think you need something like that now
<andyrock> ok I double checked
<Laney> where did 300 come from?
<andyrock> two different users logged at same time
<seb128> just me trying a random value to see if the call makes a difference
<seb128> which is does
<andyrock> user/self points to differents objects
<andyrock> should be fine
<seb128> I don't like to add fixed values though
<seb128> would be nice if GTK was clever enough to fit to the space available as it used to do :-/
<Laney> andyrock: but is it part of the API?
<Laney> how did you find out about it?
<seb128> andyrock, I think Laney's point was that it might go away in a systemd update if it's not properly documented
<seb128> so we shouldn't rely on it
<seb128> or get upstream to document it as officially supported
<andyrock> ah...
<andyrock> is there a freenode channel for systemd
<Guest76787> andyrock: Yea, it's #systemd.
<seb128> if you use get at least a test
<seb128> so the day systemd change we get something flagged red
<andyrock> seb128: adding such a test in our framework is hard
<andyrock> we don't rely on real-world dbus
<seb128> talk to #systemd upstream and see what they say
<andyrock> maybe inside cmake we can do something
<seb128> andyrock, but at the same time getting the uid is easy and that's probably supported/stable
<andyrock> i know but self is nicer :P
<Laney> andyrock: Also, ew
<Laney> use the second part of the tuple instead of string concatenation on the session id
<andyrock> mmm
<andyrock> dunno in this case is going to be a bit harder to still support XDG_SESSION_ID
<andyrock> maybe not
<andyrock> i'll update the branch
<Laney> in that case you should be using GetSession IMHO
<andyrock> I can use the second part still supporting XDG_SESSION_ID
<andyrock> i'm pretty sure Trevinho will not accept deprecating XDG_SESSION_ID
<Laney> nah, I'm saying that in this case you should be calling org.freedesktop.login1.Manager GetSession (XDG_SESSION_ID) to get the object path
<andyrock> ah... we likely did like that because our dbus api is async and it's not always trivial to get dbus properties
<Laney> the risk is that the implementation changes one day and breaks you
<Laney> same as the other case
<Laney> :P
<andyrock> let's see if Trevinho still wants the XDG_SESSION_ID thing
<andyrock> maybe he's using it in some scripts
<andyrock> otherwise it's easier to remove that code path
 * andyrock 's day is almost over and he wants to propose it before eod
<flexiondotorg> seb128, The default scrolled window sized in 16.04 was 200px. So I'll use that.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, wfm, the 300 value was a random test, I played around a bit and was leaning toward 180px
<seb128> so you are close
<flexiondotorg> I measured it ;-)
<flexiondotorg> apt install screenruler
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> I didn't look at deja-dup but I expect it's going to be a similar issue
<Laney> There's a case in update-manager too if you weren't already aware
<Laney> the "technical description" bit
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Yep. Saw that.
<Laney> ok
<flexiondotorg> Thanks for the prompt though.
<flexiondotorg> Deja Dup is the same issue.
<seb128> that was expected ;-)
<seb128> unsure if we should bother SRUing those to yakkety
<Laney> I would, shouldn't be hard
<flexiondotorg> I'm happy to.
<flexiondotorg> Just a case of merge proposals for Zesty and debdiffs for Yakkety, right?
<Laney> If you want, or you can do MPs for both (I can push the branches to ubuntu-yakkety)
<flexiondotorg> I've not done a MP for a prior release before.
<flexiondotorg> What branch to I merge to?
<Laney> Just change Vcs-Bzr
<flexiondotorg> s/to/do/
<Laney> I think it needs to exist to make a proposal to it - that's what I just offered to do
<Laney> bzr branch ...; bzr push ...-yakkety
<flexiondotorg> OK
<seb128> your call for the SRUs, it has a small work cost between upload/review/test and it's a non LTS and only cosmetic issues
<seb128> but polish is always nice
<Laney> flexiondotorg: created lp:~ubuntu-desktop/deja-dup/ubuntu-yakkety and lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/yakkety - doesn't look like aptdaemon has one (no Vcs-Bzr at least)
<flexiondotorg> Laney, thanks.
 * Laney spends his last Â£1
<sarnold> Laney: perhaps relevant :) http://hyperallergic.com/299912/the-photographers-of-1870s-london-who-documented-their-disappearing-city/
<Laney> sarnold: you calling me an old relic?
<sarnold> Laney: hehe, no :) it just triggered the "wow london is old" feeling..
<Laney> Ah, my quaint old currency
<Laney> here we're suffering the consequences of 1970s architectural vandalism
 * Laney stabs the Broadmarsh centre
<willcooke> Laney, did the Snenton market revamp ever get finished?
<willcooke> *Sneinton
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1oiH3TZr/
<andyrock> Laney: ok in this way I use GetSession and also fallback to the old one in case it fails
<Laney> willcooke: yep, there's a nice fountain there now
<Laney> not sure it's quite as successful as they hoped it would be
<Laney> also some artist studios and stuff where there used to be veg wholesalers and the like
<Laney> some kind of cultural cleansing
<Laney> they call it the 'creative quarter'
<Laney> includes hockley & lace market too
<Laney> andyrock: nice
<Laney> did #systemd answer you about the /org/freedesktop/login1/user/self thing?
<andyrock> nope
<andyrock> but it's eod for me
<Laney> ahhh
<Laney> sorry for raising issues :(
<andyrock> ahah thanks for the help
<andyrock> btw I think it's not a freedesktop.login1 thing
<andyrock> just a systemd login1
<Laney> que?
<andyrock> the /self thing
<andyrock> are there other implementations of freedesktop.login1?
<Laney> don't think so
<Laney> I would hope to see it on https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/logind/ if it is guaranteed
<Laney> that documents everything else on the interfaces
<Guest76787> seb128: Sorry, you were right, jayatana is installed by default. But it still doesn't solve the Eclipse issue.
<andyrock> Laney: I asked on #systemd but silence
<andyrock> they don't know me
<Laney> they should
<Laney> you're a big deal!
<seb128> andyrock, try asking p_itti in email if you are in contact with him
<seb128> he knows who to ask
<andyrock> seb128: he just answerd in the bug proposing a similar solution
<andyrock> but with the getUser thing
<seb128> k
<andyrock> the problem with getUser is that we need to provide fallbacks inside the code
<andyrock> and fallbacks make the code longer
<andyrock> btw I asked him if this is stable or not
<seb128> good
<andyrock> or iÃ¬ll just use systemd lib
<andyrock> if it's ok for you
<andyrock> seb128: ^^Ã¬
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> whatever is easier for you
<andyrock> i mean the code is already there
<andyrock> but tomorrow i'll port the code to systemd lib
<andyrock> i've to go now
<andyrock> have a good night
<Laney> night!
<seb128> night Laney
<Laney> not me
<seb128> night andyrock :p
<seb128> well, I'm calling a day as well
 * Laney is trying to get amqp to work
<willcooke> cya seb128
<seb128> started at 6:30am today
<Laney> what are you playing at!
 * seb128 needs some rest
<seb128> the cold woke me up
<seb128> but yeah, should have called it a day earlier still
<seb128> anyway, have a good evening desktopers
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> byeyeyeye
<flexiondotorg> Night seb128
<flexiondotorg> Laney, I've prepared MPs for aptdaemon/update-manager for Zesty.
<flexiondotorg> And an MP (update-manager) and debdiff (aptdaemon) for Yakkety.
<flexiondotorg> All described in the comments here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/1623856
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1623856 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,In progress]
<flexiondotorg> Good night desktopers
<willcooke> see ya flexiondotorg
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-03
<hikiko> hello :)
<flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> good morning flexiondotorg
<Laney> yo
<TheMuso> Hey Laney.
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey flexiondotorg.
<Laney> hi TheMuso & flexiondotorg
<Laney> how are you?
<flexiondotorg> It is f-i-b-r-e day today!
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to have to duck out for a little bit in 15 mins or so.
<pitti> hey Laney, hello flexiondotorg!
<pitti> "get up late" day? :)
<flexiondotorg> So deal with that last of that. But should be up and running again in a couple of hours.
<pitti> oh no, we are an hour ahead of CET
<flexiondotorg> pitti, Morning
<seb128> good morning Laney flexiondotorg pitti
<seb128> good evening TheMuso
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Morning.
<Laney> hey pitti seb128
<Laney> seb128: cold getting better?
<Laney> pitti: Romania providing you with suitable fun?
<seb128> Laney, yes, thanks, I had a good night and it didn't disturbe me/woke me up early this time
<seb128> still a bit annoying today but I feel like it's mostly over
<seb128> should be back in full shape for the w.e
<pitti> Laney: yeah, indeed! tried the Sauna last night, and had a nice walk with mvo
<Laney> lovely!
<Laney> Sauna was a thing that our sprint missed
<TheMuso> flexiondotorg: I'm jellous. :) Anyway enjoy. :)
<TheMuso> Laters folks.
<seb128> Laney, can't have the bike, the beach, the stoopwaffels and the sauna, need to choose!
<didrocks> who needs to choose? :)
<seb128> but yeah, sauna sounds good
<didrocks> hey Laney, flexiondotorg, pitti, seb128 :)
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<seb128> be warned, dutch sauna is naked sauna
<seb128> but I think it's usual for Germans as well
<seb128> (not for french people though)
<seb128> unsure what's the norm in the u.k?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, same here -- #1 "no sweat on the wood" (so sit on a towel), and nothing else
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I don't know, it's not that common here
<Laney> I would guess not naked though
<Laney> heeeeey didrocks
<willcooke> You have to wear a tie
 * flexiondotorg slopes off for a bit. Back in an hour or so...
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning seb128
 * seb128 wonders what a naked man with only a tie in the sauna would looks like
<seb128> I guess it depends where the tie stops
<willcooke> Very British
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> pitti: I was pilfering your amqp code from autopkgtest-cloud yesterday for an appstream project - thanks ;-)
 * Laney has a crappy webapp putting requests into a queue now
<Laney> uk government just lost the case about whether it can trigger article 50 without a vote in parliament
<willcooke> oooooh
<Laney> https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/r-miller-v-secretary-of-state-for-exiting-the-european-union/
<seb128> well done
<Laney> I don't know what that will actually change though
<willcooke> If parliament have to vote, does that mean it has to go through the Lords as well?
<Laney> I wonder
<Laney> Save us, ye unelected chamber
<willcooke> seb128, do you know if the list of categories in g-s is listed in the source somewhere?
<willcooke> nvm, found it
<willcooke> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/gnome-software/wily/view/head:/src/plugins/gs-plugin-hardcoded-categories.c
<willcooke> oh, that's not it - but good enough
 * flexiondotorg returns
<flexiondotorg> The future is now :-)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, are you full of fibre now?
<flexiondotorg> IRC has never been so fast ;-)
<willcooke> woot!
<flexiondotorg> As it happens my office is still on radio but the rest of the house is on fibre.
<willcooke> How's the latency?
<flexiondotorg> I'll switch the office over tonight.
<flexiondotorg> Connecting from this workstation over wifi to Fibra AP.
<flexiondotorg> Much lower than before.
<flexiondotorg> Ping times to a peer were ~127ms before.
<flexiondotorg> Now ~12ms
<willcooke> woah, nice
<didrocks> welcome to the gang flexiondotorg :)
<flexiondotorg> I know right ;-)
<willcooke> Trevinho, hikiko  - come along on this story with me...
<willcooke> I have 3 gedit windows open
<willcooke> I switched between them with alt-grave
<willcooke> first time I hit alt-grave I see the 3 views of the windows appear
<willcooke> the order is:
<willcooke> Window 1  -  WIndow 2  -  Window 3
<willcooke> I switch to window 3 say
<willcooke> then I open alt-grave again, and now the positions are
<willcooke> WIndow 3 - Window 2 - Window 1
<willcooke> Is it possible for me to stop it re-arranging them and just keep them in the same order all the time?
<willcooke> cos right now this is annoying the flip out of me
<willcooke> In my mind alt-grave twice is "Window 2" lets say, and three times for window 3, and those should always be in the same place in my mind
<hikiko> willcooke, let me test it, is this a bug or the focused window should be first?
<willcooke> hikiko, I think it's probably personal preference
<willcooke> if there isn't an easy fix then !care
<hikiko> willcooke, give me 5 minutes, I have broken desktop atm, I think we could do something with the order
<willcooke> hikiko, really no hurry :)
<hikiko> willcooke, at a 1st glance (didnt check the code) the order is: topmost window first then lower etc but we could change it to use the x position so that it has the order yuo see on the screen
<hikiko> but if you have several rows of windows
<hikiko> we have to have the 1st row window first, second afterwards something like that
<willcooke> hikiko, I think what I want is do the order to just be fixed, for ever.  So I know that the first window I opened is on the left and the last one is on the right
<willcooke> hikiko, Let me work out exactly what I dont like about it and we can chat later
<hikiko> ok :)
<hikiko> going for a quick lunch break then!
<hikiko|ln> mmm willcooke I saw what you mean exactly,
<hikiko|ln> I have 2 ideas to solve it:
<hikiko|ln> if you need the order to be the creation time, we have to keep it somewhere and use it
<hikiko|ln> but
<hikiko|ln> we could have an easier fixed order
<hikiko|ln> using the window id
<hikiko|ln> most of the times the window that was created first will have < win id than the 2nd but this doesn't happen always because sometimes xserver reuses the ids
<hikiko|ln> so you might have a fixed order that will be always:
<hikiko|ln> win 2, win 3, win 1 in some cases
<hikiko|ln> but always that
<hikiko|ln> if that's fine it's easy to do, the other is slightly (but not much) more "complicated" because we need to store the time
<hikiko|ln> but still feasible
<hikiko|ln> brb
<willcooke> Is it a real problem though?  Does anyone else find it annoying?
<hikiko|ln> well, me, I just didn't notice so far because I used to write code from xfce (to be able to attach u7 on gdb) :p
 * Laney doesn't really use alt-`
 * Laney upgrades to z
<Laney> such 3.22
<willcooke> wow
<Laney> chimney sweep time
 * Laney victorian
<Laney> brb
<seb128> willcooke, it's a switcher, like alt-tab, having always the same number of windows open is sort of a special case
<seb128> willcooke, the current behaviour has the nice property that you can use alt-` to switch forth and back between 2 open dialogs
<seb128> like just press it and again
<andyrock> morning
<Laney> meow andyrock
<andyrock> bau Laney
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> seb128 comme ci comme Ã§a
<seb128> oh?  what's the issue?
<andyrock> btw pitti wrote me that /self thing is fine
<andyrock> seb128 I wish I could sleep more :D
<seb128> nice for the self use ... and you can sleep again tonight don't worry!
<andyrock> :D
<Laney> you should do a documentation patch / bug for /self ;-)
<andyrock> i'll open a bug later on
<Laney> hidden systemd features
<andyrock> seb128: any other bug?
<Laney> it's like finding the secrets in doom
<andyrock> I just found out about busctl
<seb128> andyrock, you are actively looking for things to work on or just asking in case? ;-)
<andyrock> just asking
<andyrock> otherwise I switch back to unity8
<andyrock> but if there is something affecting a lot of people
<andyrock> ...
<seb128> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1635625 is visible
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1635625 in unity (Ubuntu) "Some indicator icons are missing after unlocking the screen" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> I even asked Laney about in the planary in DenHaag
<andyrock> oh I saw this
<seb128> I though we had a buggy indicator
<seb128> somebody debugged it and found the commit
<seb128> see current comment
<seb128> unsure if that's for you or Trevinho though
<Laney> is that the icon not found thing?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> same thing the guy just asked abotu in #ubuntu-devel?
<andyrock> ah Marco :P
<seb128> hehe
 * Laney checks who reviewed the MP ;-)
<seb128> Laney, dunno, that guy was not specific enough, if he meant "update to 16.10" maybe
<seb128> but it's not recent
<andyrock> ahaha
<andyrock> XD
<seb128> replied to him now
<Laney> nice
<andyrock> i'll take a look
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I pointed it Trevinho
<seb128> but it was on tuesday, then I remember it was a vac day in Italy
<seb128> it probably got lost in the backlog
<Laney> too many white russians since then
<Laney> according to telegram
<seb128> those guys ;-)
<andyrock> that guy :P
<seb128> :-)
<andyrock> any app I could use to reproduce the issue?
<seb128> tomboy?
<seb128> enable screen sharing in vino
<seb128> hum, vino doesn't do it no
<seb128> the comment says they need custom icons
<seb128> description says skype or electron users like wmail
<andyrock> skype alpha does not show an icon at all
<andyrock> on Y (at least for me)
<seb128> it mentions custom icons
<seb128> I would guess that e.g indicator-cpufreq should hit it
<seb128> but I didn't try
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/indicator-cpufreq
<seb128> or multiload or weather
<andyrock> oki but I see the issue, i guess that there is an easy workaround
<andyrock> let me try to reproduce it before
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> FJKong_'s first upload https://launchpad.net/~fjkong/+uploaded-packages
<willcooke> thanks Laney, congrats FJKong_
<seb128> well done FJKong_!
<FJKong_> Laney: all things goes well?
<FJKong_> I tried to upload a package to mentors.debian.net and some error return, I put here http://paste.ubuntu.com/23420819/
<FJKong_> I have send-key to keying.debian.org
<hikiko> I upgraded to yakkety and there's no Droid Sans Mono anymore :s :(
<qengho> FJKong_: was your changes and dsc signed?
<FJKong_> I have run debuild -S and input pass to sign it
<FJKong_> not sure if it is caused by subkey
<dobey> hikiko: you use that for code?
<FJKong_> I signed it with master key and the error is about sub key
<qengho> FJKong_: upload the dsc and changes somewhere so I can see.
<hikiko> dobey, it was my default on terminal and gvim :p
<qengho> FJKong_: The "public key not found" could mean that your signed subkey is not known to be attached to your master key.
<FJKong_> I planed to upload to launchpad of my ppa, but it can't built by launpad, but I can build it with sbuild
<hikiko> also my qtcreator theme is gone :S
<dobey> hikiko: ah. i use Envy Code R, which i find quite nice
<hikiko> dobey, it's the first time I hear it but just googled and looks nice too (but not like droid :/) and I had droid in the menus too :p
<dobey> heh
<FJKong_> qengho: how to connect sub key with master key?
<dobey> hikiko: looks like the droid fonts aren't free any more :-/
<dobey> at least, not outside of the android sdk
<hikiko> yep :/
<dobey> what a weird licensing situation that is
<hikiko> I am going to use ubuntu, it's not bad I just loved the droid mono font
<hikiko> but I have to change all fonts settings everywhere now :p
<dobey> hikiko: well i guess you can just install the package from 16.04 :)
<hikiko> haha true!
<dobey> or the sdk, and copy them out from it
<FJKong_> Laney: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/gb/2016/MiniDebConfCambridge  not far from you guys. :)
<hikiko> yep :) plus I still have a xenial machine
<hikiko> I am gonna copy them from there!
<qengho> FJKong_: You need only just upload public key, I think.
<qengho> FJKong_: Perhaps your public key must be in some whitelist of allowed uploaders?
<FJKong_> I have upload public key to debian server, I think
<Guest76787> By the way, attente, just clearing out odd suspicious points: the difference of Eclipse UI difference is because the container is running 16.04, whereas the host's been upgraded to 16.10. Also installed Eclipse from archives (and dear Lord is it old), and it still had the menu issue.
<Guest76787> Not asking to keep digging after this mess, just clearing possibly nagging doubts. It'd have nagged me for a few days at least.
<Laney> FJKong_: Yeah, I was wondering about going down for some of the days
<attente> Guest76787: ok. sorry i can't be of more help here. i still don't know why yours has no local menu while mine does
<attente> thanks for letting me know
<Guest76787> attente: Didn't your screenshot show Eclipse without global menu?
<attente> Guest76787: right, but it had a local one, so at least here it's still usable
<Guest76787> attente: I've local one too, don
<Guest76787> attente: I've local one too, don't worry. But my laptop screen is downright tiny.
<attente> Guest76787: oh really? maybe i wasn't looking carefully enough :)
<Guest76787> I need to minimize everything except the editor and file explorer in Eclipse to do anything comfortably.
<Guest76787> Which is why I really loved global menu for just about everything. Back in the time of Ubuntu Netbook, I forced to install it on normal machines.
<attente> Guest76787: is the problem with just eclipse or does it happen with other java apps as well?
<Guest76787> attente: I don't know, I don't use any other Java apps. Do you know any small ones I can download and run?
<attente> Guest76787: can't think of any off the top of my head but maybe something from 'apt rdepends default-jre'
<attente> i don't really recognize any of these so i couldn't tell you if they have menus or not
<Guest76787> Okay, I'll take a look.
<Guest76787> attente: Do you use Eclipse, though? Do you know what package lets Eclipse show the welcome screen in builtin browser? It's a long-shot, but maybe it has something to do with it.
<Guest76787> Welcome screen and builtin browser.
<attente> Guest76787: i don't use it, but let me try to see where that comes from
<Guest76787> Goddamn, every Java app I download all seem to be made of that ugly-ass Swing.
<Guest76787> attente: I've confirmed it, it's not just Eclipse. All SWT apps.
<Guest76787> Let me see if there's any SWT related packages in packages.ubuntu.com.
<attente> Guest76787: is jayatana installed on both your host and container? can you just double-check to make sure?
<Guest76787> attente: Yes, after seb128 suggested, I checked and it was installed on host so I installed in container as well.
<Guest76787> attente: You can try it out in your container, it doesn't help.
<seb128> Guest76787, did you try if it works if you "export JAVA_TOOL_OPTIONS="-javaagent:/usr/share/java/jayatanaag.jar    $JAVA_TOOL_OPTIONS""?
<Guest76787> seb128: I did not. Excuse me while I do. I don't understand the $JAVA_TOOL_OPTIONS part.
<seb128> Guest76787, read the changelog entry from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jayatana/2.7-0ubuntu4
<Guest76787> Ah, gotcha.
<Guest76787> seb128: Nope, do difference. Running apps with it only outputs the line 'Picked up JAVA_TOOL_OPTIONS: -javaagent:/usr/share/java/jayatanaag.jar' to stderr and it runs as before.
<seb128> k, I was mentioning it in case
<Guest76787> Yea, thanks. Narrowing down the possibilities is part of debugging, I understand.
<Guest76787> Is there a command to purge package x and autoremove its orphaned dependencies in a single command? It's annoying to do purge x and then again do autoremove --purge.
<Guest76787> Oh, found it: apt autoremove x --purge.
<attente> kenvandine: hey, do you think https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/content-hub/content-hub-glib/+merge/309706 is ok now? i removed the autocleanup option that doesn't exist on xenial
<Guest76787> Is there any commands like dpkg -s but works with wildcards?
<attente> Guest76787: apt-file -x search <pattern>
<Guest76787> attente: Thanks, but I found dpkg -l | grep. I don't need to install apt-file.
<attente> Guest76787: doesn't that just search package names?
<attente> oh. you were talking about little s
<Guest76787> attente: I'm using dpkg -s to see if a package is installed or not, dpkg -l is good enough.
<Guest76787> Aye.
<Guest76787> attente: By the way, your suggestions to mount /usr/share/fonts/ ran into a little snag. If the container app I'm installing depends on a font package, it throws up error since it can't RW the directory.
<kenvandine> attente, i built it this morning
<kenvandine> it's probably fine, but not sure how to test it :)
<kenvandine> attente, i'll give it some more attention later today
<attente> kenvandine: oh, cool. yeah, there's just the one copy-paste test in there right now, and the gtk branch
<attente> Guest76787: yeah, that's true, i hadn't considered that. maybe it's best to get the list of all the font packages using dpkg -S :)
<Guest76787> attente: dpkg -S is cool, but it doesn't give me the lowest package denominator.
<attente> Guest76787: what do you mean? like the smallest subset of packages you need?
<Guest76787> attente: Yea, didn't get the words right.
<attente> Guest76787: i was thinking of just installing all of dpkg -S /usr/share/fonts, but if you want a smaller subset, you can 'apt rdepends' some of those packages to see what depends on them
<Guest76787> Some packages have fontx and fontx-ttf. Normally, -ttfs are automatically installed as dependencies of fontx. But it's a pain to manually to figure those out.
<Guest76787> Yea, still manual work. Why isn't there an automatic way to figure those out? It'd make copying list of installed packages easier without making the mistake of marking unnecessary packages as manually installed.
<attente> Guest76787: i don't necessarily recommend this, but i have this in my bashrc:
<attente> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YxmZyes0/
<Guest76787> Why do you not recommend it?
<attente> just as a disclaimer
<Guest76787> By the way, would you happen to know why Server ships with aptitude but Desktop ships with apt-get?
<attente> Guest76787: it lists all of the manually installed packages that have a manual rdepends already installed. so you could run 'apt-mark auto' on those packages
<Guest76787> apt is just trying to replicate aptitude's additional functions, so why not just ship aptitude?
<attente> Guest76787: apt is easier to type i guess :P
<Guest76787> attente: Yeah, it's great thanks.
<Guest76787> Hahah...
<Laney> flexiondotorg: Meh, the aptdaemon change doesn't seem to do anything in update-manager for me - the Vte widget is still small
<Laney> does it work for you?
<flexiondotorg> Oh bother, it Vte busted too.
<flexiondotorg> I can sort that.
<flexiondotorg> As for the fixes, both worked on my test VMs.
<flexiondotorg> I'll fix Vte tomorrow and re-test and confirm.
<flexiondotorg> That aptdaemon is indeed fixed.
<flexiondotorg> Mostly been on snap stuff today, but I have the fix for Deja Dup too.
<Laney> the test script in aptdaemon works
<Laney> but it doesn't work in update-manager for some reason
<flexiondotorg> I test update-manager in combination with the patch aptdaemon.
<flexiondotorg> I'll push my local debs to a PPA for testing tomorrow.
<Laney> Mmm
<Laney> right, nighty night!
<willcooke> ta ta Laney
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> going to do the same, might have a look at one of my snap builds result on launchpad later but dinner for now
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<willcooke> night seb
<seb128> night willcooke!
<flexiondotorg> Night all
<willcooke> cya flexiondotorg
<willcooke> me too
<willcooke> night all
<muktupavels> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm/+bug/1637758l
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637758 in Light Display Manager "Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> muktupavels: thanks; I think I have a rough idea about that; on a sprint this week, will look next week
<tjaalton> anpok: ping, looks like you need to update the libinput patches for 1.5.0..
<Trevinho> Laney: hey, when you've a free slot, please ack this https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2124
<anpok> tjaalton: yes. I have an update already
<anpok> but havent found the time to teset..
<tjaalton> anpok: ah, good
<anpok> tjaalton: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23407168/ the mx4 patch is still missing and the symbols show up in a different stanza ..
<anpok> but I believe the mx4 fix has alreay been integrated in a different form
<tjaalton> anpok: should you rename the evdev_.. functions like upstream did?
<anpok> i think so
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-04
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> happy friday!
<FJKong_> hello fri
<willcooke> o/
<flocculant> \\o
<seb128> willcooke, hey, early start today? ;-)
<seb128> hey flocculant
<flexiondotorg> Morning willcooke seb128 hikiko FJKong_
<hikiko> good morning willcooke seb128 flexiondotorg FJKong_ seb128 flocculant desktopers :)
<Laney> west side
<duflu> \  /\  /
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg hikiko Laney
<hikiko> I am about to create a partition for mir/z in my old laptop... /me fingers crossed
<seb128> & duflu
<hikiko> hi Laney and duflu
<duflu> Morning seb128. I have zesty installed working fine (since yesterday)
<duflu> Just use 20161102 or later
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I'm still on xenial :p
<duflu> Only failed on 50% of machines I tried ;)
<hikiko> I have xenial on desktop yaketty on laptop
<hikiko> yakkety*
<seb128> sort of the same here
<seb128> though my desktop is my main laptop docked
<seb128> the yakkety is the small inspiron
<seb128> which is fine for testing but a bit of a small box for day work
<hikiko> my desktop has a quite surreal setup: 2 GPUs, 4 monitors and I switch GPUs to test things :p
<duflu> seb128: zesty is fine except (a) first attempt failed to install grub; (b) The software sources GUI doesn't work... edit /etc/apt instead
<hikiko> duflu, you did a fresh installation?
<duflu> hikiko: Yes
<hikiko> is it safe to upgrade from Y?
<duflu> hikiko: I don't know. If you need "safe" maybe assume no
<hikiko> I am going to install x and upgrade to y and z afterwards
<hikiko> duflu, I want to run mir on a machine
<hikiko> should I use Y or X?
<hikiko> Y or Z*
<seb128> depends of what you mean by safe
<seb128> but yeah upgrade should work
<duflu> hikiko: Certainly Unity8 is working on zesty if you don't run into install issues
<hikiko> but what do you use for work?
<duflu> hikiko: xenial for my desktop, remotely logged into the zesty box :)
<hikiko> and the mir is installed on zesty?
<duflu> hikiko: Yes, Mir (and Unity8) is available in yakkety and zesty. Just choose it on the login screen
<hikiko> cool :)
<seb128> depends of what you work on
<seb128> to work on mir you probably want to stay on the current devel version
<seb128> e.g zesty
<duflu> In fact the latest Mir release only exists on zesty right now
<seb128> though early in the cycle you might still be fine on yakkety
<seb128> like less moving and you might be able to rebuild the parts you need/work on
<hikiko> I want to port chrome on mir, but I am going to start working actively at the task in 1 month or so, atm I just want to get a look to get an idea what's needed etc
<hikiko> so I guess I will need the most recent version of mir every time
<hikiko> so zesty
<hikiko> right?
<seb128> yes
<hikiko> ok :)
<hikiko> fingers crossed!
<hikiko> and bbiab!
<hikiko> thank you guys :)
<willcooke> oops - sorry seb128, missed your message - yes, I'm leaving early tonight
<willcooke> Center Parcs for the weekend
<willcooke> (hence Monday off)
<Laney> lads on tour
<willcooke> \m/
<duflu> hikiko: Sounds fun. Two notes: (1) racarr did Chromiun already but it probably bitrotted; and (2) Chrome relies on high precision frame timing which I still have a work in progress
<duflu> *Chromium*
<willcooke> yeah, the work racarr did is now bit-rotted to oblivion
<hikiko> duflu, qengho told me that there was a patch for chromium from 2 years ago that doesn't work
<hikiko> is that racarr's work/
<duflu> Yep. And the high precision frame timing I think you can work around (I have in Xmir already)
<hikiko> what is the high precision frame timing?
 * duflu digs
<hikiko> sounds like something alien :)
<duflu> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/attachmentText?aid=178027
<seb128> willcooke, enjoy the w.e there!
<duflu> It's the reason why Chrome has lower latency than just everything else
<seb128> willcooke, don't forget the tie for the sauna
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> :-)
<hikiko> oh I see
<hikiko> duflu, so mir doesnt support this extension?
<duflu> If you've ever wondered how a web page in chrome can have lower latency than a native app, I think that's the reason. Yes, I have started work to implement it in Mir. But it will take more time to complete
<duflu> Xmir (DRI clients) want the same functionality too
<hikiko> duflu, I am going to start this task in 1 month or so, and I guess that I can start porting other functions first... tbh I didn't look at the code yet but as far as I know from a first discussion with qengho  there's an API layer for displays called Ozone that should be ported first
<duflu> hikiko: Yes, that's all I know... racarr worked on something called ozone :)
<hikiko> so hopefully you will have done some work by then or if we see that I can't continue working on the task without this extension ported I could help you
<duflu> hikiko: Ummm, they mention Mir too!  https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/ozone_overview.md
<hikiko> !
<hikiko> that document seems helpful :)
<hikiko> it explains what needs to be ported step by step!
<duflu> hikiko: You can survive without the high precision frame timing. It's easy to fake: https://git.launchpad.net/~xmir-team/xorg-server/+git/xmir/commit/?id=4003bec9f46c725b840f6da05936add439d85ad2
<hikiko> :D
<Laney> menus seem messed up in z
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/whatthemenu.png
<seb128> :-/
 * Laney isn't very clueful about how that hangs together
<Laney> maybe attente has a few minutes to take a look? :-)
<jbicha> bug 1615408
<ubot5`> bug 1615408 in gnome-calculator (Ubuntu) "Theming issues with yakkety gnome-calculator in Unity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615408
<Laney> I show two applications in that screenshot
<seb128> that bug also has an extra menu
<seb128> but the screenshot from z has the extra menu + an unstripped bar
<Laney> I don't think it is quite the same bug
<Laney> never seen the linked one myself
<Laney> the title of gnome-calculator is wrong, but not the menu thing
<jbicha> right, it's not the same bug
<Laney> Trevinho: compiz is go
<Trevinho> Laney: thanks
<Laney> morning ;-)
<Trevinho> morning Laney  :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: as for the menus... yeah, I noticed something weird too... Might be unity-gtk-module related?
<Laney> maybe, that's why I pinged the Super Canadian
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<seb128> is u-g-m still needed/used for gmenumodel code?
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<seb128> Trevinho, happy friday! how are you?
<jbicha> by the way, I don't have Z's menu problem with Yakkety + backported GTK 3.22 from gnome3-staging ppa
<Trevinho> seb128: Mh, I woke up a little upstet this morning... But ok :-)
<seb128> oh?
 * seb128 hugs Trevinho
<Trevinho> And tomorrow there's an ubuntu it loco team meeting :)
<seb128> great!
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, it happens often in the morning... I just hate the morning in any case ð
<Laney> oh Marcooooo
<Laney> abbracci
<Trevinho> Laney: ahahah :-)
<hikiko> does anyone else have problems with the hr website?
<Laney> hikiko: anything in particular?
<Laney> loads ok
<hikiko> Laney, when I try to submit a day off
<hikiko> it shows an error page
<Laney> lame
<Laney> try #hr on the internal IRC
<andyrock> morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<shiznix> i may be blind here but using say https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1630990 as an example, is there an easy way to see what the 'fix' committed/released actually is?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1630990 in linux (Ubuntu Yakkety) "include/linux/security.h header syntax error with !CONFIG_SECURITYFS" [High,Fix committed]
<flocculant> oh my, I'm getting tarred with the desktoper brush instead of the idler one :p
<attente> whoa. cool menus
<Laney> hey attente!
<attente> hi Laney!
<Laney> how's it going?
<attente> Laney: gooood
<attente> Laney: you don't like the new menu design?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> what's the philosophy?
<Laney> wherever the user might want to find a menu, we put one there
<attente> if we have it in two places, everything will be more 'discoverable' :)
<Laney> true
<Laney> Won't Fix
<Laney> didn't happen in a live session for me btw
<Laney> but after installing zesty in a VM it was there
<attente> how is that possible...
<Laney> that is the fun!
<Laney> lunch
<Laney> then time to cross the badlands
<Laney> and do some juju
<attente> gtk-shell-shows-menubar is false under unity for some reason
<Sweet5hark> popey, willcooke: around?
<popey> Sweet5hark: for you, always
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, otp
<Sweet5hark> popey: <3 -- ok, lemme try to pick up the guys interested in snap stuff and (will bring them to #snappy)
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, popey - quick hangout?  I've got to go in 2 mins, but would like to catch up with you before I do
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: nah, no hangout now IMHO. Just wanted to find a date ...
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, oki, I'll leave it with you guys then
<willcooke> and with that - the weekend starts ..........  here
<willcooke> off Monday, see yall Tuesday
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: aright -- have fun!
<willcooke> dont touch my stuff
<popey> hah
 * Sweet5hark burns down the village.
<Sweet5hark> Same procedure as every year.
<popey> Oh, Tuesday is "Laugh at the Americans and their new President elect" day
<Laney> attente: I forgot where that comes from... u-s-d?
<attente> Laney: yeah, u-s-d is looking for AppMenuRegistrar on the bus
<attente> don't know if it's some kind of race or what
<attente> but i didn't really look that deep into it yet
<Laney> k
<xnox> popey, i have faith in humanity. As a back plan i live near a deep underground station that can be used as nuclear shelter.
<xnox> off to get a box of tuna over the weekend.
<popey> :D
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Unforeseen problem at home. I'm going to finish here today and do some work over the weekend to catch up.
<Laney> flexiondotorg: Mmk, no worries
<Laney> you can give me a link to the the aptdaemon etc on Monday
<tsdgeos> do you guys know who creates the /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme symlink in a default installation?
<tsdgeos> i.e. it doesn't come from any .deb file, does it?
<Laney> tsdgeos: The package sets it up using the alternate system
<xnox> just imagine; 2020; whilst one seeks re-election, the other seeks revenge. Hillary vs Trump round #2
<tsdgeos> Laney: which package? i have a snap that is installing dmz-cursor-theme and has no such symlink. do you know anything about snaps? maybe snaps "intsall" deb files in a different way?
<Laney> tsdgeos: The package it refers to, which by default is dmz-cursor-theme
<Laney> It's done in the postinst, maybe that doesn't work somehow when building the snap
<tsdgeos> yeah
<tsdgeos> ok, tx
<sarnold> xnox: y u do mean things?
<Laney> attente: I had a brainwave
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/290846720/lightdm_1.19.5-0ubuntu1_1.20.0-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
<Laney> -eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax`
<Laney> +[ -n "$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" ] || eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax`
<Laney> so the greeter is now on the same bus as the session
<Laney> explains why there's already an xsettings manager
<Laney> sort of
<Laney> actually I don't understand why, but it seems to be that anyway
<Laney> :)
<Laney> it looks like this makes the lightdm session not be closed
<Laney> so its usd stays alive
<Laney> or something
<Laney> ._.
<attente> i guess that explains why gtk doesn't get display scaling changes either
<Laney> maybe
<Laney> don't know offhand how to fix this
<attente> me neither
<Trevinho> Laney: something else to ACK if you're still here :)
<Trevinho> https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2081
<Laney> Trevinho: ok
<Laney> uploading unity8, fancy
<Trevinho> Laney: :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: there's also https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2134 if you want, since it's blocking lots of stuff
<Trevinho> Laney: see #ubuntu-ci-eng
<mitya57> Trevinho, hi, will you mind if I upload new metacity & rebuild compiz against it?
<mitya57> Or do you want the current compiz upload to migrate first?
<Trevinho> mitya57: if compiz needs a rebuild, please do it by submitting a MP so that we do it with CI-itrain... Or, notify me once done so that I can sync downstream and upstream
<mitya57> OK, I can do it via CI-train.
<Trevinho> mitya57: better, thanks...
<Laney> Trevinho: sorry, no time, but mitya57 can maybe click it for you
<Laney> got to go now, going away for the weekend
<Laney> o/
<Trevinho> Laney: ok, no problem... enjoy your weekend
<mitya57> haha
<Trevinho> Laney: thanks
<Trevinho> mitya57: so... yeah :-D
<Trevinho> mitya57: this would need publication https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2134 as it's breaking xenail builds for u8 stack
<Trevinho> that's only for the phone overlay ppa tho
<mitya57> Trevinho, I should just publish it and ACK packaging, right?
<Trevinho> mitya57: yeah, if you believe so :-)
<mitya57> Trevinho, done
<Trevinho> mitya57: thanks :-)
<dobey> great
<mitya57> You are welcome
<seb128> Trevinho, Laney, desktopers, have a good w.e!
<Trevinho> seb128: you too!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-05
<qengho> FJKong_: did you work out that GPG trouble?
<FJKong_> qengho: no still the error
<FJKong_> qengho: oh just saw you last email
<qengho> FJKong_: You may need to recv-keys again.
<FJKong_> recv your key?
<FJKong_> do you use caff to sign it?
<qengho> FJKong_: Hi. I used monkeysign. I have another signatures subkeys in keyserver.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-30
<jbicha> robert_ancell: so LP: #1707352 is still frustrating, people say they can now install third-party scanner libs but the libs don't always work now
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707352 in sane-backends (Debian) "the change from libsane to libsane1 broke many (all?) 3rd party plug-ins for sane" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707352
<jbicha> we added a versioned provides which fixed the installability issue
<robert_ancell> jbicha: did they change the internals of sane much? It's a fairly simple API, I would have thought it would be fairly hard to break.
<jbicha> I don't know what's going on
<duflu> jbicha, I have no context other than that one message :)
<jbicha> so 2 of us don't know what's going on :)
<duflu> \o/\o/
<jbicha> I don't know what's going on LP: #1707352, we added the versioned provides which fixed the installability problem but the 3rd party libs seem to still not work
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707352 in sane-backends (Debian) "the change from libsane to libsane1 broke many (all?) 3rd party plug-ins for sane" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707352
<jamesh> robert_ancell: what do you think of moving gnome-software's macaroon code to log in to snapd directly rather than using snapd-login-service?
<robert_ancell> jamesh: as in making snapd responsible for storing it?
<jamesh> I know that this code path won't be hit for most new users, but seems necessary to handle the password change bug
<jamesh> robert_ancell: no.  Just have gnome-software call /v2/login rather than asking snapd-login-service to do so
<robert_ancell> jamesh: oh, we should definitely kill snapd-login-service if snapd is capable of us talking to it directly (i.e. using Polkit)
<robert_ancell> s-l-s only exists as a workaround
<jamesh> robert_ancell: at the moment, if you provided U1 credentials to gnome-software and then change your U1 password, things will break some time later when snapd tries to refresh the store macaroon
<robert_ancell> jamesh: shouldn't snapd just return an appropriate error code for g-s to trigger re-entering the credentials?
<jamesh> I've fixed up things snapd side so it sends a proper Unauthorized response when this happens, but I think on the gnome-software side the correct action is to call /v2/login with the existing snapd macaroon
<jamesh> which I don't think we can do through snapd-login-service
<robert_ancell> oh, I see. Yeah, that would be a pain to try and get through D-Bus.
<robert_ancell> jamesh: if we just put a Polkit action on /v2/login we can call it directly, right?
<jamesh> if we call login without a macaroon, we end up collecting dead logins inside snapd
<robert_ancell> jamesh: oh interesting. I think snapd-glib explicitly doesn't send the old macaroon when you do another login anyway
<robert_ancell> I had assumed it wasn't useful anymore...
<jamesh> robert_ancell: there's already a polkit action on that endpoint: it was the first one I added
 * robert_ancell thinks Macaroons have sure made life easier :)
<robert_ancell> jamesh: done then - let's just change g-s to stop using s-l-s
<robert_ancell> I'll deprecate those functions in snapd-glib
<jamesh> robert_ancell: to be honest I don't know if it is important or not.  If you look in /var/lib/snapd/state.json you can see where it stores info about each login
<robert_ancell> jamesh: what is the state of polkit support in snapd now? Did we resolve the Polkit config issue? Which Ubuntu releases (if any) does it work on now?
<jamesh> robert_ancell: one thing I'm concerned about is what happens when snapd does its automatic refresh: if I've got 10 non-functional uids registered, does it try to use them to talk to the store?
<robert_ancell> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jamesh> robert_ancell: looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd, 2.28.5 is everywhere
<jamesh> well, proposed for xenial and trusty
<robert_ancell> and that ships the polkit config?
<jamesh> but effectively everywhere
<jamesh> yes
<jamesh> it was only necessary to copy the polkit action file when using snapd from the core snap while the deb packaged version was older
<robert_ancell> jamesh: right. I just wasn't sure if the core snap version was considered "done" and when the .deb version would exist
<robert_ancell> jamesh: there must be a bug in snapd if it accumulates broken macaroons / uids - even if we make g-s a well behaved client it should handle broken clients
<jamesh> robert_ancell: using "Depends: snapd (>= 2.28)" should be sufficient
<robert_ancell> yeah
<jamesh> robert_ancell: if you run "snap login", snapd has no way to know if you throw away the macaroon.
<robert_ancell> jamesh: doesn't it use the macaroon stored in the home dir?
<jamesh> robert_ancell: the "snap" client reads the macaroon from your home directory.  "snapd" doesn't know about it
<jamesh> so if I delete ~/.snap/auth.json and log in again, snapd has no way to know that the previous login uid is inaccessible
<jamesh> there is no sensible way to garbage collect it
<robert_ancell> jamesh: by "snap login" you mean the command line client right? Doesn't it read ~/.snap/auth.json?
<jamesh> robert_ancell: well, it can be pretty much any snapd client
<jamesh> robert_ancell: if I log in via gnome-software and again via the command line client, there is no linkage between the two issued macaroons
<robert_ancell> yes
<jamesh> and any login which hasn't been matched with an equivalent call to logout is potentially in use
<jbicha> by the way, I'm working on getting snapd-glib into Debian https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/snapd-glib_1.24-1.html
<jamesh> jbicha: awesome!
<robert_ancell> yay!
<robert_ancell> "Ayatana Packagers" - does that still exist?
<jbicha> sunweaver has repurposed it for packaging his indicator stuff
<jamesh> so it's basically "stuff from ubuntu" now?
<jbicha> if not for that, the team would have been pretty much gone by now
<jbicha> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-ayatana-devel%40lists.alioth.debian.org
<jbicha> jamesh: I guess, I couldn't think of a better team for the pkg and I really prefer team maintenance
<jamesh> jbicha: fair enough
<jbicha> also with alioth being decomissioned soon, it's difficult to start a new team now (hard to get a Debian mailing list)
<robert_ancell> jbicha: alioth is going to be decomissioned! That's great! :)
<jamesh> if https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/snapd had a team as maintainer, it probably would have fit better there
<jamesh> jbicha: are they going to set up their own instance of Launchpad?
<jbicha> jamesh: no, something like gitlab.gnome.org
<jamesh> :)
<robert_ancell> jamesh: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=db1eceb912572fe2fe832372148e437632d7973d
<robert_ancell> jamesh: let me know if that works well and we can backport it
<robert_ancell> It will still hit the weirdness if you had 2.28 from core but <2.28 in the .deb, but we really can't detect that :/
<jamesh> robert_ancell: it should be fine.  For Ubuntu releases, I doubt gnome-software will get out of proposed before snapd (and we could ensure that with a versioned dependency in the control file)
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Hey, are you still vaguely interested in backing GTK4 onto Mir?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Because Gerry, Alan, and I will be discussing that sort of thing tomorrow evening, and you're welcome to attend (at the friendly time of 22:30 UTC+13) or I can proxy stuff for you.
<robert_ancell> RAOF: it would be in the category of vaguely interested but too far down my priority list, so I'm interested to hear what's happening.
<robert_ancell> Won't be at that meeting though :)
<RAOF> Have you had any further thoughts on what would be involved?
<RAOF> One of us would probably be able to do it, but it'd be nice to be mentored by someone with actual experience :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF: I think the backend stuff has changed a lot with GTK4, so not sure if I'd be much help there. It was fairly hard to do in GTK3, probably a lot easier now
<jbicha> by the way, the latest gtk4 is in Debian svn, I didn't upload to Debian's NEW queue yet because the soname numbering is odd
<jbicha> they are still dropping symbols from gtk4 and I'm unaware of any apps using gtk4
<jbicha> I'm thinking we might remove gtk4 from Ubuntu for the 18.04 LTS release because it will be more confusing than helpful, given how gtk4 development is going
<robert_ancell> RAOF: looks like the Mir backend has been getting some changes due to the refactoring. Don't know if it still works though.
<robert_ancell> RAOF: oh hang on, are you referring to making a GTK+/Mir compositor?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Hopefully we won't have to care ð
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Yes!
<RAOF> That bit. Not Mir clients; writing Mir shells with GTK+
<robert_ancell> Ah, right! I still have no idea at all, but it sounds like a cool idea.
<robert_ancell> Totally happy to hack around with you on it.
<robert_ancell> RAOF: how did the Qt compositor work, did it open a Mir connection to itself and otherwise act like a client?
<RAOF> No; it plumbed stuff right into the Qt event loop and stuff.
<RAOF> And the Qt scene graph.
<robert_ancell> So that must essentially be a special backend for Qt. I guess for GTK+ we'd have to write a special mir-compositor backend
<RAOF> QtMir implemented the various policy interfaces exposed by libmirserver.
<jamesh> there was QtMir and QtUbuntu
<RAOF> QtMir was the compositor-side one; QtUbuntu was the Qt-as-a-Mir-client one.
<robert_ancell> yeah
<RAOF> Yeah, you'd need a special compositor backend. Because (for example) you'd want to have the client windows in your scenegraph, and those are only available in-process.
<robert_ancell> The backends seem to be hidden from the GTK+ client. So we might need to lobby for some API gtk_get_backend() that would allow us to get the backend object.
<RAOF> And you might want a way to send GTK events to the clients and such.
<RAOF> Hm.
<robert_ancell> I guess we need a MVP and then work out what does and doesn't work and then work out what needs to be done to make it work.
<RAOF> Yeah. Maybe you'd actually want a gtk_init_with_backend(), because your shell can only sensibly use that backend anyway...
<RAOF> But something of that kidney.
 * RAOF will need to investigate the GTK4 scenegraph API, and see whether it makes sense for things to appear in it without the application specifically putting them there.
<robert_ancell> RAOF: There just seems to be a backend filter API. It would be a lot cleaner with what you suggested.
<robert_ancell> I suspect the short answer is going to be "this is not really do-able", but we could work on some APIs to make it possible.
<robert_ancell> And having them in GTK+4 earlier rather than later is going to be useful.
<RAOF> And now would be the time to do them, while GTK4 is in flux.
<RAOF> Ding!
<robert_ancell> Working on some of those APIs and working with upstream sounds right up my alley. I've been keen to find something to work on in GTK+.
<RAOF> Yay!
<RAOF> So, I'll tell Alan and Gerry that you're going to come back with a GTK4 compositor backend in a couple of months :)
<robert_ancell> ah......
<RAOF> Or, at least, that you're going to look into the GTK4 API and see how such a backend would look?
<robert_ancell> I'm interested, but I wouldn't rely on me to do it unless it was a business priority...
<RAOF> gdk_display_beep() ð
<robert_ancell> That still exists? ;)
<RAOF> Not even deprecated :)
<RAOF> So, from a cursory look...
<RAOF> ...we'd need to implement a GdkDisplay and a GskRenderer backed onto the Mir server API.
<jbicha> duflu: so, I was looking at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<jbicha> and intel-vaapi-driver used to be in main, I guess briefly though
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-vaapi-driver/+publishinghistory
<duflu> jbicha, interesting but no biggy. We were being cautious rather than acting on specific legal advice (AFAIK)
<jbicha> oh ok, I don't know anything about all that
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<fdfghhjfgfzsdffg> Hello, When will the dailybuild of Bionic be published ??
<willcooke> morning all
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> Hi oSoMoN, good weekend?
<seb128> hey willcooke oSoMoN
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> howdy seb128
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, willcooke, seb128
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<seb128> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> willcooke, yeah, a good one, stayed at home and did some gardening, diy and played lego with my daughter
<willcooke> \o/
<oSoMoN> you?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, hey duflu
<willcooke> Played in a golf competition on Saturday (my team won!) and then emptied the garage so that the builders can start converting it in to a new office for me
<willcooke> Scaffolding is going up today
<oSoMoN> nice
<duflu> Gah, 5:12pm and still getting through email
<seb128> duflu, launchpad incoming bugreports triaging?
<duflu> seb128, yeah
<duflu> also gnome bugzilla
<seb128> duflu, I would recommend you skip on some/do less, I've been there, on busy time you could spend you full week triaging but that doesn't help much since then you don't have any slot to work on issues
<duflu> seb128, it's fine. Used to be worse with Compiz (this happened all year round, not just release months). And I have a sufficiently fair scheduling algorithm
<seb128> ok :)
<duflu> seb128, one of the tricks is to *close* email around this time of day :)
<seb128> sounds like a good idea
<seb128> I don't think how you do it, I got bored of going through reports after half a day usually
<duflu> Never said it was fun :)
<fdfghhjfgfzsdffg> Hello
<fdfghhjfgfzsdffg> When will I publish Bionic dailybuild iso?
<duflu> fdfghhjfgfzsdffg, great question. I would like to know myself
<fdfghhjfgfzsdffg> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
<duflu> Yeah we know. It's still artful
<fdfghhjfgfzsdffg> the most recent is from October 19th
<oSoMoN> seb128, are you planning on pushing my libreoffice 5.4.2 packages to the artful queue today?
<seb128> oSoMoN, oh yeah, sorry that I didn't manage to get to it on friday
<oSoMoN> seb128, no worries, I don't think it would have moved much during the week-end anyway
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, a simple retry should worked for me -- https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/rust-updates/+build/13624981
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, chromium-browser 62.0.3202.75 is ready for publication in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages
<jbicha> I got into an edit war over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1721315/+activity
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723857 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1721315 onscreen keyboard appears whenever i touch touchscreen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jbicha> seb128: could you hint remmina-plugin-spice to universe to see if that's enough for new remmina to migrate to bionic?
<jbicha> oh I guess duflu gave in and let the other duplicate bug win, probably a good idea
<kenvandine> The "welcome 17.10 users" banner is now up on gnome.org
<willcooke> kenvandine, nice one!
<willcooke> kenvandine, would you share that on the socials?
<kenvandine> sure
<jbicha> seb128: or anyone: you triaged LP: #1700319 as high, are you able to fill in the test case so the bug number can be mentioned in the gtk 3.22.25 SRU I'm working on?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1700319 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "GTK3 menus don't work over SSH forwarding " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700319
<seb128> jbicha, k
<seb128> jbicha, unsure what's the issue with remmina? did somebody new a binary to main wrongly?
<jbicha> there's a new version of remmina and it adds a new binary: remmina-plugin-spice which depends on the universe spice-gtk libraries
<jbicha> I guess new binaries for main packages go to main by default?
<seb128> not in the web ui iirc, but maybe some archive admin just send them in main because that's where they most likely need to be
<jbicha> it shows up on the bionic update_excuses page
<kenvandine> willcooke, done
<willcooke> thx kenvandine
<jbicha> also, I guess the desktop-bugs team should be subscribed to freerdp2 (someone promoted it to main already)
<a1fa> i got an issue with 17.10 - laptop waking up from suspend w/o prompting for password
<a1fa> it's a rando thing.. most of the time it requires password
<a1fa> i think it has to do something with chrome, and one of the tabs
<a1fa> with audio
<seb128> a1fa, what makes you believe that's the case?
<a1fa> i think that's the only time i've seen this issue, if chrome was left running and lid was closed
<a1fa> suspend action should lock first, then suspend
<a1fa> to prevent this from happening
<seb128> you should open a bug against gnome-shell with your syslog from just after getting the issue
<andyrock> seb128, willcooke the fix for that OEM bug has been committed in master too
<andyrock> seb128: let me know if I need to do something more for the SRU
<seb128> andyrock, \o/
<seb128> andyrock, no, it's all good, thanks again for the work on that
<jbicha> jackpot51: good morning, GNOME 3.26.2 updates are this week so I think I'm going to ask that the unapproved mutter SRU for artful be rejeted so we'll just upload mutter 3.26.2 in a few days
<jbicha> andyrock: similarly, is it ok if I can for our gtk3 unapproved sru to be rejected and we'll do LP: #1728421 instead soon?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728421 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Update gtk+3.0 to 3.22.25" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728421
<jbicha> *can ask
<andyrock> jbicha: ok for me
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, hey, in a clean artful VM I'm still seeing the theme issue with the LO candidate snap, but on my desktop I'm not, any idea what could make a difference?
<oSoMoN> in both setups the gsettings interface is connected
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, no... that's very weird
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, both on wayland?
<kenvandine> shouldn't matter
<oSoMoN> yes, both on wayland
<oSoMoN> not seeing any relevant apparmor denials either
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, how about UID?  are they both UID 1000?
<kenvandine> as in first user created?
<oSoMoN> let me check
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i recall seeing a problem like that and i think it was with the second user created on the system
<kenvandine> multiple logins
<kenvandine> but at the time i thought the problem was unrelated... and i trashed the VM
<oSoMoN> yes, single user machines anyway, and both have UID 1000
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i'm installing it on both of my artful systems
<oSoMoN> reinstalling on my desktop as I realized it was not the version from the candidate channel (although supposedly the same snap)
<oSoMoN> still getting the ambiance theming on my desktop with the snap from candidate
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, failed to install from the candidate channel on my desktop
<kenvandine> invalid exec command
<kenvandine> still downloading on my laptop
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, same on my laptop
<kenvandine> revision 37
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i'm running core from beta
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I'm on stable
<kenvandine> and edge on the other
 * kenvandine tries again with stable
<oSoMoN> aha, if I move ~/.config/dconf/user on my desktop, then the libreoffice snap gets the wrong theme
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> that's not good!
<oSoMoN> and sure enough if I restore it the theme is good again
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, what about the other gnome snaps?
<kenvandine> like gnome-calculator
<oSoMoN> same
<oSoMoN> i.e. without my old version of ~/.config/dconf/user, they get the adwaita theme
<kenvandine> LO installed fine with core from stable
<jbicha> oSoMoN: do you have an explicit theme set in your gsettings, try:
<jbicha> dconf dump / | grep theme
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, can you try the gnome-calculator snap in a clean artful VM and let me know if you see the same?
<oSoMoN> jbicha, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25852862/
<jbicha> yeah, the last three lines say to me that you've customized your theme at some point
<oSoMoN> looks like it indeed, not sure how/when I did that
<jbicha> gsettings reset org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme (same for icon-theme and cursor-theme) to get back to defaults
<jbicha> maybe you tried a different theme in Tweaks and then changed it back?
<oSoMoN> could very well be
<jbicha> I think it would be nice if dconf wouldn't bother storing configs if they match the default
<oSoMoN> yup
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, so with a default config I'm getting adwaita for both LO and gnome-calculator
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, yeah, i'm guessing the gsettings interface isn't allowing access?
<kenvandine> although you'd think it would get a denial
<kenvandine> oh, it's the other way
<kenvandine> it only works if we've altered?
<oSoMoN> yes
<oSoMoN> if I disconnect the gsettings interface I'm seeing a denial on ~/.config/dconf/user
<oSoMoN> so the snap tries to get the theme config from there
<oSoMoN> and it doesn't know how to fall back to the system default
<kenvandine> yeah
<jbicha> we have per-desktop overrides for theme settings in Ubuntu 17.10
<kenvandine> i don't think this affects 16.04
<jbicha> (the per-desktop overrides are new to 17.10)
<kenvandine> right
<oSoMoN> checking in a xenial VM
<kenvandine> ~/.config/dconf/user gets created at login on 16.04
<kenvandine> i removed it from the console before logging in
<kenvandine> and it  was recreated
<kenvandine> so i'm thinking jbicha is right
<kenvandine> or... something with unity7 that created it
<oSoMoN> I confirm that xenial and zesty are not affected, only artful
<kenvandine> yeah, and on those that file is created at login
<kenvandine> so it only works when that file is created
<kenvandine> i guess the question is why does that file not get created anymore
<a1fa> seb128: ok i will
<kenvandine> i'd guess settings daemon is what triggers creating that
<amano> didrocks, the proper gnome-shell fix regressed my boot experience again ð¤
<amano> now upgrading to libmutter  3.26.1-2ubuntu2
<amano> to see if that fixes it
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, also of interest... i created a new user on my 17.10 desktop
<kenvandine> completely fresh account with a new homedir
<kenvandine> logged with the Ubuntu session
<kenvandine> it gets the Adwaita theme!
<kenvandine> jbicha, ^^
<amano> (I was the nouveau user experiencing the amd symptoms)
<kenvandine> oh... and it doesn't get the Ubuntu session actually
<jbicha> uh, I would have thought that wouldn't happen after the gnome-session/artful SRU ð
<jbicha> ugh
<kenvandine> i logged out and back in and now i got the right session
<kenvandine> wtf
<kenvandine> this isn't a pristine install though :)
<kenvandine> but still, very odd
<jbicha> right, pristine wouldn't have gnome-session installed
<amano> didrocks, 3.26.1-2ubuntu2 is fine again
<amano> so 3.26.1-2ubuntu1 regressed?
<amano> a shaky experience ;)
<amano> * Cherry-pick gdm crasher from gnome-3-26 branch: (LP: #1725153)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1725153 in GNOME Shell "Reintroduce headless mode in GNOME Shell" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725153
<amano>     - git_12381d57d1c9256bb1f5206a403c1272bf2af34e.patch
<amano>     - git_4ad8c4b86bab938e20e37f47781025911d5ff419.patch
<amano> so one of those two gdm crashes was mine
<amano> (both were fixed with libmutter 3.26.1-2ubuntu2)
<jbicha> amano: didrocks isn't here today
<amano> oh, tnx, didn't read the logs today (October is a busy month for me). but it is fine now anyways :)
 * oSoMoN calls it a day, good night all
<jbicha> I don't know his schedule, but he's not in the userlist in this channel so he's "not here" for that at least
<andyrock> jbicha: should we stop answering this tom? :D
<andyrock> it's kind of trolling us
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> jbicha, I would be in favor of not superseeding selected bugfixes SRUs by new versions ones, at least not when the fix is something we want to see landing like the g-c-c segfault one from and_yrock. The new version is more likely to be more difficult to test/have a regression/sit for longer in proposed and it delays the important fix then
<jackpot51> jbicha: sounds good
<jackpot51> (mutter 3.26.2, that is)
<jbicha> seb128: did you see my ping re: Are you able to add a test case for LP: #1700319 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1700319 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "GTK3 menus don't work over SSH forwarding " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700319
<seb128> jbicha, I did add one, see the description update from this afternoon?
<jbicha> ok, will you be able to verify that bug fix in an SRU? I don't have cygwin and such set up
<seb128> I don't have a setup to reproduce no, it works fine between Ubuntu machines
<jbicha> my trick in these cases is not to mention a bug # if it's going to be difficult to verify the bug fix ;)
<jbicha> I can upload gtk 3.22.25 now and you can poke an SRU team member to expedite its acceptance
<jbicha> I think the list of bug fixes in LP: #1728421 is long enough that it would be nice to get all of them in instead of trying to cherry-pick in this case
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728421 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Update gtk+3.0 to 3.22.25" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728421
<jbicha> the gtk3/artful SRU I uploaded last week for andyrock was still stuck in unapproved until today
<seb128> jbicha, do as you want, I think it's wrong for the reason stated before but it's not a LTS so I don't care enough to argue
<seb128> jbicha, there is more than 100 commits in that update
<seb128> I wouldn't bet that there isn't a regression or a new issue that is going to block the SRU
<seb128> but we can play the odds and see how it goes :)
<jbicha> I'm going to wait on LP: #1728617 at least since that will take some more time to test
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728617 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Scrolled window broken when containing an eventbox" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728617
<seb128> right, I'm not sure I would do that change in artful
<seb128> it's a behaviour change in the toolkit and can impact apps
<seb128> it's fine in a new cycle, less so as a SRU
<seb128> but again it's not a LTS so I don't think it's that important so I'm not going to make a fuss about it
<jbicha> on the other hand, it's good practice to see how willing the sru team is to accept new gtk3 releases (or other large GNOME updates) under our microrelease exception
<seb128> why would they discuss that MRE?
<seb128> I think it's fine
<seb128> it's just more likely that it fails verification or hit a regression which is going to delay the g-c-c/online account segfaultfix
<dobey> hmm, would have been nice to have relevant unity/indicator settings migrated over to gnome on upgrade to 17.10. maybe that can be done for 18.04?
<jbicha> GNOME offers a way to convert settings from gconf to gsettings but not from one gsettings to another (that's part of why the Super+L/Ctrl+L bug is unfixed)
<jbicha> but what settings were you thinking of?
<dobey> clock format and some other things.
<dobey> i've just seen some questions popping up like this on askubuntu; not sure what all would translate
<dobey> i thought we had something so that a script could be run at login to migrate stuff
<jbicha> I think the top bar clock isn't designed to let users make many changes to it
<dobey> well you can certainly move it via extension
<jbicha> well I mean the time format
<dobey> yeah, i don't recall if there's a setting for it or not. but i think there is
<jbicha> there are toggles for date and seconds in Tweaks > Top Bar (and coming in 3.28: "day of week")
<dobey> ah, there's an extension you have to install to change the format
<jbicha> there's AM/PM or 24-hour in Settings > Details > Date & Time
<dobey> https://askubuntu.com/a/968955
<dobey> so i guess migrating stuff is not so easy :-/
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-31
<duflu> jbicha, I saw a comment/rumor that gnome-shell only saves some settings on a clean shutdown (when it hasn't crashed). Do you know anything about that?
<duflu> Because I *think* I might have just fixed a logout crash that was our top crasher
<jbicha> I don't know anything about that
<jbicha> GNOME's doing 3.26.2 releases this week so your fix might make it in ð
<duflu> jbicha, yes that fix is in 3.26.2. Slightly sad the font rendering fix is only in 3.27. Bionic will get that though right?
<jbicha> if you're asking whether 18.04 will get GNOME Shell 3.28, that's still undecided
<duflu> Oh dear. OK, I'll need to work on either distro patching or pushing for it in 3.26
<duflu> I was thinking 3.27 with hybrid support should theoretically solve many people's display issues too
<jbicha> you mean fractional scaling, or something different?
<jbicha> multi-monitor?
<duflu> jbicha, I mean various bug reports where users with multiple GPUs have no picture on screen, or on the wrong screen. I thought the hybrid work would start to solve those
<duflu> Even with a single GPU... if I install a radeon card and intel is disabled when Wayland doesn't work. It feels like that stuff could be related to the 3.27 enhancements
<duflu> *then* Wayland doesn't work
<duflu> 3.26 doesn't feel like a great choice for LTS to me. But that's based purely on the assumption that 3.28 will be ready early enough and will be significantly better
<duflu> otherwise I'm just talking about bugs whose fixes can always be backported
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<willcooke> hoy
<duflu> ahoy willcooke
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<willcooke> taking a surprise day off since I don't have a window in my study
<willcooke> I'll be on telegram etc etc
<willcooke> have a good day all
<willcooke> seb128 will run the meeting
<duflu> OK then. Bye willcooke
<Laney> PHEW
<Laney> what's up
<duflu> <insert pun>
<duflu> Hi Laney
<seb128> hey Laney & desktopers
<seb128> hey duflu
<duflu> Hello seb128
<seb128> duflu, trying to see if you can DoS the meeting with your weekly summaries? ;)
<duflu> seb128, verbosity is an inherited problem
<duflu> Plus it seems if I ever miss something out, someone will ask about it
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> & duflu!
<seb128> Laney, good! you?
<seb128> I slept well this night, 11pm to almost 6pm without being waken up in between :)
<Laney> 6pm!!!!
<Laney> :P
<Laney> well done
<seb128> haha, thanks
<seb128> Laney, seems like you have IRC closed earlier, just as a fyi willcooke decided to take the day off since he has workers redoing his office and it was not possible to use it today
<Laney> alright
 * Laney is inside 9999 emails
<seb128> one more and it might overflow and go to 0
<seb128> who knows!
 * Laney overflowed
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i think i know the cause of the theme issue
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, glib in the backports PPA doesn't have the per desktop overrides support
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, fixing that now
<seb128> oSoMoN, seems like this morning guess was right there :)
<andyrock> seb128: can you schedule me at the end of the meeting
<seb128> andyrock, sure
<andyrock> I'm preparing the notes
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> ok, it's meeting time
<seb128> let's see if anyone gets surprised due to DST :p
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 31 14:30:49 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks (out), duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho (out), robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> o/
<jbicha> o/
<oSoMoN> ðµ/
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> hey
<Laney> meow
<dgadomski> * attended OpenSourceSummit Europe
<dgadomski> * found a workaround for bug #1718688, waiting for confirmation from the user who reported that to me
<dgadomski> * added some changes and unittest to my fix for bug #1699179
<dgadomski> * monitoring bug #1638695 in case any decision made there will be applicable to Xenial.
<ubot5> bug 1718688 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can't connect to a Cisco AP with Wi-Fi Direct Client Policy enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718688
<ubot5> bug 1699179 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Bionic) "PackageReporter kicks in during do-release-upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699179
<ubot5> bug 1638695 in python2.7 (Ubuntu Xenial) "Python 2.7.12 performance regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638695
<dgadomski> eof
<seb128> dgadomski, thanks
<seb128> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: duflu
<seb128> (be ready, long summary coming)
<seb128> * Mutter/Xwayland crash handling: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789086
<seb128>   - Completed several patch iterations during the week.
<seb128>   - Landed upstream: https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=054c25f693a
<seb128> * Mutter: blurry shell fonts: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645433
<seb128>   - Completed several patch iterations during the week.
<seb128>   - Landed upstream: https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/commit/?id=a37956c9
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789086 in wayland "Xwayland leaves no core dump when crashing" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> * Totem's big stutter bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733780
<ubot5> Gnome bug 645433 in wayland "gnome-shell's panel ignores font settings" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128>   - Finally, almost got a code review of my one line fix. Although that was only a Rejection without any reason given. The maintainer does however request much more complicated API changes (affecting multiple projects) instead.
<ubot5> Gnome bug 733780 in Movie player "Saving playlist state sometimes hangs totem" [Normal,New]
<seb128>   - I think I've lost patience with totem for now and will just distro patch the one-line fix soon. Let upstream change the API to their own liking in their own time.
<seb128> * Totem's smaller (bug more frequent) stutter bug in GTK also has fixes pending review (links below).
<seb128> * Unresponsive touchpads: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98839
<seb128>   - Yes, already. I thought this was a task for next year but upstream suddenly woke up this week and has been asking me to test patches. Looks like a fix is close to landing!
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 98839 in libinput "Somehow conditionalize hysteresis (hardware black/whitelist, device property introspection, user-exposed setting, etc)" [Normal,New]
<seb128>   - Testing patches, testing hardware
<seb128>   - Reading kernel code and finding more things worth fixing (next year-ish).
<seb128> * Incorrect %CPU in gnome-system-monitor: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788922
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788922 in process list "Processes % CPU column is inaccurate (only ever an integer multiple of the number of CPUs)" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128>   - Just got frustrated and fixed it myself as a quick Friday evening job.
<seb128>   - Patch proposed upstream.
<seb128> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv.
<seb128>   - Mountains and mountains of bug traffic this week, but we mostly kept up.
<seb128> * Patches awaiting Ubuntu sponsorship (or needing refreshing for 18.04):
<seb128>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846
<seb128> * Patches awaiting upstream review:
<seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787001
<ubot5> Gnome bug 787001 in GtkClutterEmbed "clutter-gtk apps like totem and gnome-maps are spending 50% of their CPU time redrawing GTK widgets" [Normal,New]
<seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773453
<ubot5> Gnome bug 773453 in general "cluttersink: support GLTextureUpload for EGL/Wayland" [Normal,New]
<seb128>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787665
<ubot5> Gnome bug 787665 in .General "gdk_frame_clock_get_frame_time is irregular and causing stuttering" [Normal,New]
<seb128>   ^^^ These have either been ignored for months, or received spurious reviews which I answered and then get ignored. But I would rather they stayed quiet till after my vacation.
<seb128> * PulseAudio 11:
<seb128>   - Been working on a TODO list for this for a long time. I hope to start on it ahead of schedule (ie. this week instead of December/January as planned).
<seb128>  
<seb128> (giving us a minute to read/digest that ;)
<seb128> ok, next
<seb128> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> â¢ Synced cairo and merged fontconfig (LP: #1702544) for color emoji support.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1702544 in fontconfig (Ubuntu) "Merge fontconfig 2.12.3-0.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1702544
<jbicha> â¢ Packaged nototools and fonts-noto-color-emoji, uploading to Debian NEW soon
<jbicha> â¢ LocutusOfBorg merged remmina 1.2~ (uses freerdp2) & I built vinagre with freerdp2 support too.
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded gtk 3.22.25 to artful/unapproved LP: #1728421
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728421 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Update gtk+3.0 to 3.22.25" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728421
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded fix to bionic for LP: #1722809, robert_ancell will SRU
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1722809 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Artful) "GNOME Shell Extensions subcategory is empty in GNOME Software" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722809
<jbicha> â¢ libgit2 transition
<jbicha> â¢ Helped remove mozjs24. IMO mozjs (1.8.5, from Firefox 4) is removable, leaving just mozjs38 and 52 (LP: #1714821)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1714821 in gnome-user-share (Ubuntu Bionic) "Sync gnome-user-share 3.18.3-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714821
<jbicha> â¢ mozjs52 / gjs and its rdeps are back on s390x. I assume we don't want to start building ubuntu-desktop there again?
<jbicha> â¢ Help Needed for troubleshooting third-party scanner driver issues, see LP: #1707352
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707352 in sane-backends (Debian) "the change from libsane to libsane1 broke many (all?) 3rd party plug-ins for sane" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707352
<jbicha> eof
<seb128> jbicha, the gnome-user-share bug referenced there was a copy error?
<seb128> or is mozjs having to do with it?
<jbicha> oops, should have been LP: #1728038
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728038 in oolite (Ubuntu) "Remove ancient mozjs from bionic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728038
<seb128> jbicha, did you try to talk to Robert about the sane-backends issue? it's sort of his domain
<seb128> that bug reference makes more sense :p
<jbicha> yes, but he didn't have answers yet
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks jbicha
<seb128> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: jamesh
<seb128> jamesh, hey, unsure if you are around?
<seb128> willcooke didn't fwd me your update
<seb128> k, seems he's not there
<seb128> next
<seb128> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: kenvandine
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> * oSoMon found an issue with gtk theme settings not being picked up in a fresh user session.  This only affects 17.10, works as expected on 16.04, zesty, etc.  I suspect this has to do with per desktop overrides.  I'm refreshing our backport of glib now to get that change to confirm it fixes it.
<kenvandine> * Did some digging into yelp support for our snaps.  I think we might be able to solve the issue of finding help files with the use of the OpenURI support in th
<kenvandine> e freedesktop portal and a patch to snapd to support help uris.
<kenvandine> * Did some work on the desktop helpers, creating symlinks to the xdg dirs so they properly appear in the file picker.  Need to do a little more work before subm
<kenvandine> itting a PR.
<kenvandine> * Backporting some artful fixes to the gnome-3-26 PPA to get them in the platform snap
<kenvandine> eof
<seb128> kenvandine, the glib/per desktop override is basically what we suspected when we discussed that with Olivier this morning, let's see how the refresh is working
<seb128> thanks kenvandine
<oSoMoN> thanks kenvandine !
<kenvandine> ah, you guys talked about it :)
<seb128> yeah, I read the backlog and I mentioned that the dconf file existing on start was probably not the issue
<seb128> if the file exists it's probably something buggy that does a write on loggin
<seb128> which shouldn't be done, desrt chassed those buggy cases in the past
<seb128> anyway let's see
<seb128> next
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hi
<Laney> â¢ v. short week ð
<Laney> â¢ finally figured out a way to filter shell extensions in gnome-software so you see the usable ones, going to submit a MR later ð»
<Laney> â¢ bos02 cloud region stability work got finished, worked today on enabling arm64/s390x cloud autopkgtesting - should be good to go in proposed-migration once some more hardware is enabled in openstack ð§
<Laney> â¢ helped a bit with bionic archive opening (NewReleaseCycleProcess checklist stuff) ð·ï¸
<Laney> ð
<oSoMoN> happy halloween Laney :)
<jbicha> which ones are usable?
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> thanks Laney
<seb128> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<seb128> oSoMoN, hey
<Laney> ones that are compatible with your shell version
<oSoMoN> hey there
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium 62.0.3202.62 published to -security and -updates for all supported series, and 62.0.3202.75 ready for publication
<oSoMoN> â¢ managed to build chromium 63 (beta) on trusty, using gcc-mozilla (gcc 4.9) and statically linking its libstdc++
<oSoMoN> â¢ first chromium 64 (dev) build ongoing in PPA
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium snap after a call for testing, useful feedback and a few fixes: 62.0.3202.75 in stable channel, 63.0.3239.18 in beta channel
<oSoMoN> â¢ prepared libreoffice 5.4.2 SRU for artful (bug #1728072), now in unapproved queue
<ubot5> bug 1728072 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[SRU] libreoffice 5.4.2 for artful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728072
<oSoMoN> â¢ preparing libreoffice 5.4.2 upload for bionic with a couple of fixes (debhelper and icu)
<oSoMoN> â¢ libreoffice snap 5.4.2: enabled spellchecking (bug #1680928), hyphenation and thesaurus, and issued call for testing, got good feedback so far, planning on promoting to stable in a couple of days if no blocking issue arises
<ubot5> bug 1680928 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[snap] Spellcheck not working" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680928
<oSoMoN> EOF
<seb128> thanks oSoMoN
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ spent most of the week triaging&debugging&sending upstream launchpad incoming bugs
<seb128> â¢ sponsoring (libreoffice artful SRU, u-c-c bugfix + xenial SRU)
<seb128> â¢ some trello board reviews and administrative work
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting: Studied GitHub Pages as possibility to host the site and manage the content, including news blog in GIT repos.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Planned the distribution of the funds received from Google.
<tkamppeter> - hplip: Uploaded missing proprietary plugins to OpenPrinting. HP failed to send them to me earlier.
<tkamppeter> - cups, cups-filters, hplip, ...: First syncs into Bionic.
<tkamppeter> - CPDB (Common Print Dialog Backends): Posted on Debian Printing mailing list to ask them to start packaging.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> thanks tkamppeter
<seb128> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<seb128> - gnome-software/snapd-glib bug fixing
<seb128> - Uploaded updated gnome-software/snapd-glib packages to ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gnome-software
<seb128> - Prepared artful gnome-software/snapd-glib SRU (in QA testing now).
<seb128> - snapd-glib 1.24 released
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, your turn :)
<andyrock> 1. Livepatch desktop integration:
<andyrock>      1.1 working on software-properties to integrate with the new macaron-based API to retrieve lp token
<andyrock>      1.2 talking with the right guys to get pymacaroonbakery in Debian and artful
<andyrock> 2. OEM bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1716359)
<andyrock>      2.1 mp for GCC master (already committed)
<andyrock>      2.2 mp for ucc trunk
<andyrock>      2.3 sru for ucc xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1716359 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Unplugging headset with audio panel open mutes internal mic" [Low,In progress]
<andyrock> 3. Updated the branch to fix osd progress bars in artful
<andyrock> 4. Sru for the gtk crash when adding new online accounts
<andyrock> eow
<seb128> thanks andyrock
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly meeting - 2017-10-31 | Current topic: aob
<seb128> k, jbicha has some of those at least
<seb128> jbicha, I guess you can start :)
<jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-October/005272.html
<jbicha> #1 fontconfig: should we keep the templates in /etc indefinitely or ok to follow upstream?
<seb128> it's probably ok to follow upstream/debian if you are confident it's not going to create issues for users upgrading
<seb128> I think I'm the one who rolled back on those changes at the time
<jbicha> I am not confident, it will break users who symlinked one of the extra available configs
<seb128> but that's because I didn't want to have to deal with the migration and we were updating ahead of Debian
<jbicha> yes, I think that was like 2012 (!)
<seb128> do we have any issue with the current situation?
<jbicha> no
<seb128> well, my position would be to stay with what we have unless somebody is wanting to deal with the change properly, which means addressing the upgrade problems
<jbicha> ok, that's fine
<jbicha> moving on to #2: dealing with headerbar patches
<jbicha> Khurshid also replied to my email: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-October/005273.html
<seb128> tricky
<jbicha> the headerbar patches are useful for Unity becuase otherwise LIM is broken there
<seb128> we said we would drop them to lower delta/maintainance cost
<seb128> but if we have contributors doing the work it's a bit less easy to say "no" rather than including them for this cycle
<seb128> are those patches known to create any problem?
<jbicha> they look bad on other desktops (that bug was filed by elementary OS ) and I saw similar badness in Xfce
<jbicha> so, changing the patches to only apply against Unity are an improvement
<seb128> right, but the updates patch change the behaviour to be in unity only
<seb128> right
<seb128> wdyt?
<seb128> I think I'm fine either way
<jbicha> actually, some of the patches were set to apply anywhere that wasn't GNOME which was why the bug was filed
<seb128> I guess Laney would be in favor of dropping them to low delta with upstream
<seb128> right
<seb128> that was probably the wrong choice
<seb128> I think I would be slightly in favor of removing those changes
<seb128> we can investigate this gtk3-nocsd mentioned on the list
<jbicha> it sort of made sense at the time but I think CSD are reasonably well supported by desktops now
<seb128> I don't know about it
<jbicha> how about we think about it more then?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> let's follow up on the list
<jbicha> ok, #3 ok to sync gnome-user-share?
<seb128> what's the user experience today with that one?
<seb128> you can enable it from an ui and it prompts you to install packages?
<jbicha> there is no user experience in the latest version of gnome-user-share itself
<seb128> well, with the one we currently have
<seb128> like what do we give up on?
<jbicha> with the old version, it has a file sharing thing used by Unity
<jbicha> but we have been patching it to break the file sharing feature for years becuase we didn't want that apache bin in the desktop install
<seb128> ideally we would have g-c-c installing packages on demand when you try to enable it there I guess?
<sil2100> kenvandine: hey!
<sil2100> kenvandine: you around?
<seb128> we are in a meeting
<sil2100> Ah, oops, excuse me then!
<seb128> but almost over
<seb128> no worry
<kenvandine> hey sil2100
 * sil2100 hides
<seb128> jbicha, let's continue on the list
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> sorry I feel like we don't have a good quorum today
<seb128> willcooke is off and didrocks as well (who usually has input on such topics)
<jbicha> g-c-c hides the File Sharing subpanel if gnome-user-share is not installed
<xnox> Laney, whoop whoop re:bos02 =)
<seb128> and others don't seem to have much opinion
<Laney> hi
<seb128> jbicha, on a similar topic we should perhaps revisit what we do with nautilus-share, it's quite buggy atm
<seb128> jbicha, the pam integration package it tries to install has been remove in xenial
<Laney> might be worth thinking about 3b in jbicha's email
<seb128> so installation fails and auth isn't working unless you go add users manually
<seb128> hey Laney :)
<Laney> it'd be cool to have those features
<seb128> right
<seb128> I think I would like to have it
<seb128> either by installation things
<Laney> guessing security would want to remove it
<Laney> review*
<Laney> or remove :P
<seb128> or by changing g-c-c to do "install on demand" rather than hidding
<Laney> mmm
<jbicha> Laney: you were right the first time ;)
<seb128> jbicha, ok, let's continue on the list, it seems like we would like to have the feature user visible but we need to define the best way to get there
<jbicha> sure, thanks
<seb128> thanks for bringing those topics
<seb128> sorry that there was not much traction to discuss them
<seb128> as said we are missing some people
<seb128> let's continue on the list and maybe try to get a conclusion next week
<jbicha> it's fine, some are complicated and it's good to think things through
<seb128> right
<seb128> any other topic?
<seb128> seems not, it's a wrap then
<Laney> nein
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 31 15:13:12 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-10-31-14.30.moin.txt
<oSoMoN> thanks everyone
 * kenvandine waves
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, please let me know when the glib package in the backports PPA is refreshed so I can trigger a LO snap rebuild
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i will
<kenvandine> waiting for an LP build that's queued
<Laney> jbicha: on fontconfig, would a symlink /etc/fonts/conf.avail/ -> the new directory work?
<Laney> that or a maintainer script fixing up any symlinks in conf.d
<Laney> you'd have to fix all font pkgs that install into conf.avail too
<Laney> or make fontconfig read both?
<jbicha> fontconfig itself reads from /etc/fonts/conf.d/ these are just templates that can be symlinked
<jbicha> maybe you're familiar with web servers using sites-available and sites-enabled ?
<Laney> I remember the seup
<Laney> setup
<jbicha> I didn't know anything about fontconfig until I started working on this emoji thing
<Laney> so the only problem is that someone might have manually symlinked something that moves into /usr/share/
<jbicha> right
<jbicha> I'm not sure how making that directory a symlink would work since there are lots of other Debian packages that try to install files to that /etc directory
<Laney> shouldn't be required, I don't think emptying it should be a goal
<Laney> at least not now
<jbicha> apt-file search /etc/fonts/conf.d
<Laney> most packages install into .d and .avail
<Laney> and then when they move to /usr they should fix old symlinks
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, did you see my ping yesterday that chromium 62.0.3202.75 is ready for publication in the stage PPA?
<jbicha> we can symlink files, I don't have any experience with symlinking directories in Debian packages if other Debian packages might try using those directories
<Laney> nah don't think that is required
<jbicha> I think I'm confused by what you are suggesting then
<Laney> I think fontconfig itself should only need to care about packages that it is now moving to /usr that weren't symlinked from conf.d before
<jbicha> ok, we can add symlinks for all of those files
<Laney> s/packages/files/
<Laney> either symlink those from conf.avail or a maintainer script to fix up any now dangling symlinks in conf.d
<Laney> don't actually see any on my system though
<Laney> oh no I do
<Laney> e.g. 10-no-sub-pixel.conf
<Laney> an advantage of fixing them up is that it's a droppable patch post-LTS but symlinking less so
<jbicha> Laney: so sort of like https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-freedesktop/fontconfig-debian.git/tree/debian/fontconfig-config.maintscript
<jbicha> but with mv_conffile instead of rm_conffile
<Laney> that's the removing half, to fix up it's something like for file in /etc/conf.d/*; if symlink pointing to one of these removed files, remove it and make symlink to /usr/share/...; done
<Laney> did Debian bother doing anything like that?
<jbicha> it doesn't look like it based on https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-freedesktop/fontconfig-debian.git/log/debian/rules
<jbicha> let me checkâ¦
<Laney> not that I can see
<jbicha> well this doesn't work: https://bugs.debian.org/714157
<ubot5> Debian bug 714157 in fontconfig-config "fontconfig-config made /etc/fonts/conf.avail/ a symlink, breaking other packages' conffiles" [Serious,Fixed]
<Laney> yeah don't do that if other packages are going to try to put files there
<jbicha> yeah my instinct said that was a bad idea
<Laney> I thought the goal was to stop putting anything in that /etc directory
<Laney> but it's not, so no need to go through that pain
<jbicha> yeah, it seems likely there are 3rd party deb's that we couldn't fix
<jbicha> I don't have much experience with maintainer scripts but I think I have enough to start with now
<jbicha> thanks for the ideas
<Laney> should be fun
<Laney> happy to review it if you want to show me something
<Laney> laney@nightingale> readlink -e /etc/fonts/conf.d/10-antialias.conf                                                                                                                                                                ~
<Laney> /etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-antialias.conf
<Laney> that's probably a thing to use
<Laney> lies, it doesn't work for broken symlnks
<Laney> readlink -m
<oSoMoN> ricotz, have you verified that packages build in bionic with https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=91b98436ca90dad3bb11a5944be70b39c057e8ec ?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, yes
<oSoMoN> ricotz, excellent, thanks!
 * andyrock misses c++ ð
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, new glib didn't fix it
<oSoMoN> :/
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, it must still be related though
<kenvandine> i'm sure this worked relatively recently
<kenvandine> but i probably haven't tested this scenario since the per desktop overrides work landed
<xnox> https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/+activereviews looks ungardened
 * oSoMoN EOD
<oSoMoN> good night all
<jbicha> I opened a trello card for the sane-backends issues since I don't think I'll be able to do much more troubleshooting myself on it
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-01
<RAOF> Bah.
<RAOF> Dear GNOME Shell: When I click on a notification I do not want to raise a whole slew of unrelated windows.
<Laney> ahoy
<willcooke> hi Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> good day off?
<willcooke> Was nice, did a bit of investigating for house stuff
<willcooke> but came home to no window in my study :)  Bit cold
<Laney> oh dear
<Laney> you're working in there????
<willcooke> It's going to get bricked up today
<willcooke> for now I'm still in here, need to pack up all my stuff at the weekend
<kenvandine> Laney, hey... i need someone to review a desktop helpers PR, would you mind?
<kenvandine> https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/82
<kenvandine> Laney, i think it's an obvious solution
<Laney> hey kenvandine, what's up?
<kenvandine> hey Laney :)
<kenvandine> it just links in the overrides the same as it does the schema xml files
<kenvandine> so the overrides work properly for the snaps
<Laney> kenvandine: sure, looks good
<Laney> don't understand what this thing is doing but that seems sensible to me :-)
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> it's just crazy stuff the helpers need to do
<kenvandine> this fixes the broken theming issues oSoMon found
<Laney> this is running at every startup?
<kenvandine> only after the snap is updated
<kenvandine> just once
<Laney> ah
<Laney> not so bad then :-)
<kenvandine> we do this for a bunch of things
<kenvandine> makes the first start slow... but not much we can do about it
<kenvandine> Laney, thx, now to trigger rebuilds of all my snaps :)
<Laney> happy days
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> off to London in the morning so won't be on until around 10 ish
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-02
<duflu> Ah... I think my subconscious is appreciating the switch to zero pointer acceleration. Device units match screen units. Highly recommended :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN! Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<oSoMoN> la forme :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey again seb128
<oSoMoN> salut seb128 !
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<jbicha> seb128: hi, did you see that the latest udisks2 will need a MIR for libblockdev ?
<seb128> jbicha, you mentioned it previous cycle when you didn't update I think?
<seb128> oh, and hey :-)
<jbicha> well it was too late in the cycle to upgrade a low-level library that was changing things like that
<jbicha> howdy ð¤ 
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, did you try out the theme fix?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, that's merged in master now
<kenvandine> didrocks, can you please review https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/80
<kenvandine> didrocks, we need that for any app that uses gjs
<didrocks> kenvandine: it's a different path from normal gi? it's interesting :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: you don't ship any in the runtime?
<didrocks> (as you only added the js SNAP path)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yes, the theme fix works provided ubuntu-settings is in the stage packages
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, maybe something to add to the gnome platform snap?
<oSoMoN> Iâve added it to the LO snap because it's not using a platform snap anyway
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i already added it to the platform snap
<kenvandine> didrocks, we don't ship gjs in the runtime
<kenvandine> intentionally
<didrocks> kenvandine: ok, it will never be the case thus? Let's thus not add it, agreed
<didrocks> (merged)
<kenvandine> didrocks, thx!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, so it needs ubuntu-settings and the new glib from the backports ppa
<kenvandine> plus the updated desktop helper :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, i haven't created a PR for this yet, but what do you think of this diff
<kenvandine> https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/compare/master...kenvandine:link_xdg_user_dirs
<kenvandine> creates symlinks for xdg user dirs so the show up correctly in the file picker
<didrocks> kenvandine: hum, I thought we already did it, +1 on the principle. Ensuring (-e should work) that updates are working properly
<didrocks> also, maybe those dirs can be already symlinks
<didrocks> so symlinks of symlinksâ¦ just need testing ;)
<kenvandine> yeah
<didrocks> (unsure -e would pick that up)
<kenvandine> i need to spend more time on it
<kenvandine> but it was my first pass
<didrocks> I think -e is correct actually
<didrocks> but yeah, just need careful testing
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yes, it needs a combination of those three things to work, confirmed in my testing earlier today
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, great
<kenvandine> didrocks, ok, i'm not going to rush it, i'll do plenty of testing before i submit a PR :)
<rafaellp> Hello good afternoon
<rafaellp> I found a bug
<rafaellp> When the screen is locked with HDMI connected, the system logout
<seb128> rafaellp, hey, sounds like bug #1722353
<ubot5> bug 1717170 in mutter (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1722353 gnome-shell crashes with SIGABRT: mutter:ERROR:backends/meta-monitor-manager.c:2274:meta_monitor_manager_get_logical_monitor_from_number: assertion failed: ((unsigned int) number < g_list_length (manager->logical_monitors))" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717170
<rafaellp> Tks
<oSoMoN> seb128, LO 5.4.2 ready for bionic here: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.2/bionic/ , if you don't mind uploading on my behalf
<seb128> oSoMoN, sure, thanks for the work
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-03
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> and happy Friday!
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN!
<didrocks> happy Friday to you too :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<duflu> Happy Aus Music T-Shirt Day
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<doko> oSoMoN: chromium-next and chromium-dev builds are really monopolizing the arm buildds, with build times of more than 20h
<duflu> I hear chromium builds are a hog on any hardware :/
<doko> well, if you *know* that, why do you schedule these daily?
<duflu> I only heard... I've never tried one myself
<oSoMoN> doko, I know, and IÂ don't schedule builds daily, only when upstream issues a channel update (and arm* queues are currently empty)
<doko> and ~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ubuntu/ppa is needed daily too? we have loong queues on these
<oSoMoN> IÂ wish chromium would build faster, that would make my life easier, but the reality is chromium build times have been steadily increasing, and it doesn't look like it's going to improve
<ricotz> doko, those firefox-trunk builds are not daily either
<ricotz> firefox doesn't take 20h by far though
<doko> I very much doubt that these builds are needed on every release
<ricotz> doko, while some people insist on firefox being buildable on all those archs and upstream don't care, build testing is required
<ricotz> especially with all those rustc updates in play
<doko> ricotz: that's bullshit. all these packages come with their own system libs packaged, so why do you need to test on four or five releases? and why do you need to do that daily?
<doko> same for lo
<oSoMoN> doko, we should be considerate with build resources of course, but what's wrong with using them when the queues are empty?
<doko> oSoMoN: did you upload armhf/arm64 only? no? then you didn't look at the amd64/i386 queues
<doko> and I saw these builds during test rebuilds in the past as well
<ricotz> doko, as I said, mozilla doesn't care about those archs upstream in the way ubuntu builds them, so they need to be tested in some way
<ricotz> also those are the last firefox 58 nightly builds while the merge to beta happened today, another reason to build them
<doko> ricotz: i some way, but not in a way thinking that you have unlimited resources
<ricotz> doko, libreoffice is only built for tagged releases which also are needed on all arch for the archive
<doko> ricotz: why are these tests needed on all releases at the same time?
<oSoMoN> doko, IÂ did see the i386/amd64 queues, my builds are in the queue, so they're not stealing resources from other builds, they're just politely waiting in line (as for the builds during the test rebuilds that's my mistake, IÂ already acknowledged it and it won't happen again)
<ricotz> doko, because builds break randomly, especially as said with rustc toolchain changes (staged in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ubuntu/rust-updates/+packages)
<oSoMoN> doko, that said if I ever push chromium builds at an untimely moment, feel free to cancel them (and notify me)
<doko> ricotz: you don't build with different rust versions on different releases, do you?
<ricotz> doko, no, but gcc is different
<ricotz> (which you should know best)
<doko> ricotz: how often do you find issues with gcc once you know it builds on one release?
<ricotz> doko, currently arm builds are failing on gcc7 based releases
<doko> yes, I know it's not that often that it rectifies throwing firefox builds everywhere
<ricotz> sorry, I need to go
<willcooke> morning all
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> yo
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<Laney> hey oSoMoN, happy friday!
<duflu> Morning willcooke. Yo Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> trÃ¨s bien, et toi?
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128> hey duflu
<seb128> happy friday
<didrocks> hey Laney, seb128, happy Friday
<jamesh> hi everyone
<duflu> Happy Ausmusic T-shirt day jamesh
<jamesh> duflu: I'm wearing my Spiderbait t-shirt, as it happens :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey jamesh
<duflu> willcooke, do we want to revert to upstream (Gnome 3-style) header bars at the same time as removing the menu bar from totem?
<duflu> Sounds like the same exercise, but different patch
<willcooke> duflu, yeah I think so.  It will make the U7 experience a bit less good, but the GNOME exp. better IMO
<duflu> willcooke, Yeah exactly
<duflu> My U7 seems broken for additional reasons. Unsure if that's also true for clean installations
<duflu> willcooke, umm that seems to remove 5 of 9 patches :D
<doko> ricotz: now you know that the buildds are loaded, but you upload another bunch of bullds. 12 or 16. this is disgusting
<doko> willcooke, seb128: ^^^ is this wanted behavior?
<seb128> doko, builds of?
<seb128> and why are the buildds loaded and how much of a problem is it?
<doko> seb128: but we have opened the archive?
<doko> please count ~mozillateam/ubuntu/firefox-next yourself
<oSoMoN> LO 5.4.2 snap now in the stable channel
<seb128> oSoMoN, well done!
<oSoMoN> the feedback from various users has been very useful to highlight and address a bunch of issues
<oSoMoN> those calls for testing really work ð
<Laney> â¥
<Laney> hey didrocks
<seb128> doko, so we have a bit of build backlog, is that such an issue?
<seb128> oSoMoN, \o/
 * duflu fades into the sunset
<doko> well, why would you care about uninstallability on ppc64el/s390x because the binary all packages are not yet built. desktop doesn't care about these anyway. so go on ...
<seb128> ?
<seb128> doko, it's the opening of a new serie, it takes some time for things to settle down, I'm sure there is work you can do meanwhile?
<seb128> it's friday, w.e is going to help with catchup
<seb128> doko, maybe spending friday doing SRUs or bugs triage if you are blocked for work on the new serie?
<seb128> andyrock, hey, does gnome bug #786906 sounds like something you think you could have a look to?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 786906 in Backend: Wayland "Dnd from desktop to a nautilus view doesn't work (&lock cursor under wayland)" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786906
<seb128> andyrock, if you are not too busy with livepatch and other things and feel like it's something you have an idea how you could go about debugging
<seb128> andyrock, otherwise we maybe wait for Marco to be back :-)
<seb128> oSoMoN, next time for libreoffice, if you have several new revisions included it's better to use -vv
<seb128> ups
<seb128> -v<previous_version_in_ubuntu>
<seb128> so the .changes lists the several entries
<seb128> which might include more descriptions and lp bugs to close
<oSoMoN> seb128, ack
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> oSoMoN, libreoffice uploaded btw :-)
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<ricotz> doko, if you choose this way to approach me it won't help in any way, better try to estimate the buildtime invested in various unmaintained recipes or wild rebuilds/backports of various packages than to target me pushing essential packages like firefox betas or libreoffice releases
<roasted> Is there a road map that Ubuntu (17.10) uses/will use to identify when upgrades to things will happen? Such as something like the upgrade from Gnome 3.26.1 to 3.26.2?
<jbicha> roasted: someone needs to prepare SRUs is all
<jbicha> is there a particular bugfix you're interested in?
<roasted> jbicha: yeah - I need to dig through my notes to find the exact one, but it's regarding some sort of KDE protocol for title bars/window decorations.
<roasted> jbicha: I just upgraded my Antergos laptop which pulled in 3.26.2 and I now have functionality back in MPV that I didn't have in 3.26.1
<roasted> (in Wayland session)
<jbicha> oh that's already in progress: LP: #1728421 just needs people to test the -proposed update and verify things still work
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728421 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Update gtk+3.0 to 3.22.25" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728421
<roasted> oh. if I enable proposed I assume I can pull it in?
<jbicha> yes, but I suggest only picking specific updates from -proposed and turn it back off again
<jbicha> this is everything that's in proposed: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<jbicha> the red gtk bug listed there is from an older SRU
<roasted> so if I enable proposed which package would I individually bump to test this out?
<roasted> I ask only because with the lack of Synaptic working in Wayland, searching and fiddling around is basically non-existent nowadays (at least in the capacity I used to handle things like this)
<seb128> jbicha, the bug should probably be untagged or marked as done otherwise it's going to confuse the SRU team
<jbicha> yes, it's on my todo list to clean it up
<jbicha> roasted: apt list --upgradable | grep 3.22.25-0ubuntu0.1
<roasted> and just bump the packages that result in the output?
<roasted> well I bumped those packages that came out of the apt list
<roasted> rebooted but I still don't have window decorations in MPV
<jbicha> I'm pretty sure that KDE thing won't affect GNOME Shell anyway
<roasted> oh. I understood it would...
<roasted> whatever 3.26.2 brought in on my other system, it surely fixed it.
<jbicha> I'm just going off my understanding of the commit description https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-22&id=f2adaba23
<roasted> just checked and those packages from apt list are all on 3.22.25
<roasted> hm, oh well
<roasted> something to look forward to with 3.26.2 me thinks
<jbicha> ask Arch/Antergos what they did differently
<roasted> dumb question but is that to suggest that 3.22.25 is "basically" what will be 3.26.2 in Ubuntu 17.10?
<jbicha> that's just the gtk3 library, there are many other parts to GNOME
<roasted> this is a link I had in my notes
<roasted> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773629
<ubot5> Gnome bug 773629 in wayland "Add support for using EGLDevice as an alternative to GBM, and EGLStream based wl_buffers" [Critical,New]
<roasted> eh might be the wrong one now that I read backlog of this discussion with other MPV users
<jbicha> that bug should have been fixed with GNOME 3.24
<roasted> they confirmed the lack of titlebars in MPV should be fixed as per the KDE protocol thing being implemented.
<roasted> so the EGL thing in that link I just posted was something different
<roasted> had two conversations going on at once at that time so I must have misunderstood
<ricotz> oSoMoN, could you check for locally pending libreoffice artful/bionic commits?
<roasted> well, if that KDE protocol was meant to be in 3.22.25 and it's not here in the same working capacity as I'm seeing on arch with 3.26.2 gnome, I'll try to do some digging and see what's different.
<oSoMoN> ricotz, Iâve got a bionic changelog entry update pending, let me push it now
<oSoMoN> ricotz, done
<ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks
<roasted> jbicha: just to confirm some confusion in my mind, with using 3.22.25 am I effectively testing what *will be* gnome 3.26.2? Or is it possible gnome 3.26.2 still has differences to these gtk 3.22.25 packages I'm messing with?
<jbicha> they are two separate things
<roasted> just trying to understand the versioning differences with 3.22.25 in proposed versus 3.26.2 in its final state
<jbicha> gtk3 is just one part of what GNOME is
<roasted> so it stands to reason that these 3.22.25 packages I'm messing with won't do anything, and come the day 3.26.2 comes to Ubuntu I may still see success with window deco on these apps (MPV, etc)?
<jbicha> roasted: this is GNOME 3.26.2: https://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.26-status.html
<jbicha> you'd also want to check mutter and gnome-shell but I didn't see anything in their git commit logs that sounded relevant to this
<roasted> is there any timeline for 3.26.2 coming?
<jbicha> roasted: you need to be more specific about what part of 3.26.2 you want
<roasted> shell? I suppose?
<roasted> I mean we're on 3.26.1 right now...
<jbicha> I'm working on mutter 3.26.2, uploading to artful unapproved next week, so it might be in proposed by the end of next week
<jbicha> no one is working on gnome-shell 3.26.2 yet
<roasted> I would assume window decorations are more mutter-specific than gnome-shell-specific
<roasted> mutter on Ubuntu is 3.26.1 while Antergos is 3.26.2, so perhaps that's it?
<roasted> I'll have to keep an eye out for your mutter 3.26.2 update to proposed jbicha. I'll be sure to test it out once I can and see if that helps MPV (and other associated apps). Thanks for your insight.
<whlai> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<whlai> test
<whlai> I have: /dev/sdb1  917G  870G 0 100% /home/robco/nextcloud-mount
<whlai> Should have 40G available
<whlai> Don't understand what's up here
<whlai> why so quite?
<oSoMoN> EOW here, have a great week-end everyone!
<flocculant> whlai: this isn't a support channel - try #ubuntu, but that looks about right if 5% of space reserved as is default
<whlai> thanks
 * kenvandine has fully confined snaps for gnome-contacts and gnome-calendar now... using the new goa interface from jamesh and my new interfaces for contacts and calendar
<kenvandine> woot
<roasted> snap all the things
<kenvandine> :)
<roasted> jbicha: I rolled back every package I recently updated on my Antergos system and could not replicate the issue I A) once saw on Antergos and B) currently see on Ubuntu 17.10 regarding window decorations. I was hoping to find it and dig deeper for sake of what's about to go into proposed, but I'm not sure how else to test. Might just have to cross fingers with Mutter 3.26.2 and hope that was it (even tho rolling it back on my other system
<roasted> didn't reintroduce the issue)
<jbicha> roasted: what if Arch's mpv package itself changed?
<roasted> jbicha: it's possible, though mpv is (for whatever it's worth) at v0.27 on both systems. The maintainer of the PPA for MPV made it sound like he was familiar with the issue and it was Gnome-specific.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-04
<roasted> jbicha: I just spoke to the author of that patch. It's specific to GTK3, i.e. not mutter or gnome-shell package or anything else. Which doesn't help much, as that leaves me with 3.22.25 on Ubuntu where it doesn't work and 3.22.25 on Antergos where it does work...
<jbicha> maybe ask whoever prepared it in Arch, I don't use mpv so I'm not much help
<roasted> it's not specific to mpv. mpv is just one of the more frequent apps.
<roasted> the author of this patch is, from what I understand, a dev of sway
<jbicha> not the patch, the packager in Arch
<jbicha> I'm suggesting that mpv in Arch maybe isn't the same as mpv in the ppa or Ubuntu
<roasted> I just reached out to the packager of gtk3 in arch. Hopefully I get a hit back.
<jbicha> he might not use mpv eitherâ¦
<roasted> it's possible - though I guess my question to them will be whether they brought in 3.22.25 exactly vanilla from upstream or if anything was altered afterward to make it work.
<roasted> Truth be told I'd be shocked if it's not vanilla upstream since that tends to be Arch's angle.
<roasted> gtk3 is encompassed under one single package in arch tho, whereas the proposed packages I pulled in were all piece-mealed together, so that particular element is floating in the back of my mind too as a question regarding the differences.
<jbicha> the package split is unimportant
<roasted> yeah - this is beyond my level of fluency with these packages. I just wasn't sure if gtk3 in arch was = to the 5 or 6 individual packages I updated.
<roasted> namely:     gir1.2-gtk-3.0, gtk-update-icon-cache, libgail-3-0, libgtk-3-0, libgtk-3-bin, libgtk-3-common
<jbicha> you should probably try #ubuntu since this doesn't seem to be a problem related to Ubuntu desktop development
<roasted> :/ sure thing
<rcombs> anyone know how to prevent my session from exiting if I turn off the display
<rcombs> [Sat Nov  4 09:06:57 2017] gnome-shell[1280]: segfault at 18 ip 00007f7f8d765e04 sp 00007ffd9a98ebd8 error 4 in libmutter-1.so.0.0.0[7f7f8d6c7000+141000]
<rcombs> oh that's probably not good at all, is it
<rcombs> looks like it segfaults when I switch the input _back_ to the machine
<rcombs> https://gist.github.com/7a8a067741594a77cb756748588ab840 uh
<rcombs> I don't get the issue if I use the "GNOME" session instead of the "Ubuntu" one
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-05
<qengho> Howdy. I have a trackpad on my laptop. It doesn't have physical mouse buttons, but has an area at the bottom defined as "Soft Mouse Buttons". Great. Two fingers on the trackpad makes any movement into a scroll action.
<qengho> That is fine in most cases.  But, I like to rest my finger on the area of the pad that is the button area.
<qengho> That means I can't move the pointer by using my other finger or hand to move the pointer. That's two fingers on the trackpad, so one finger on the button area and one moving around up high is interpreted as a scroll action.
<qengho> Can I make the finger in the button area never trigger a scroll action?
<qengho> I'm comfortable with xinput set-property.
<krashekspress> I think I figured out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/1724796
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724796 in libdrm (Ubuntu) "Picture is heavily malformed" [Undecided,New]
<krashekspress> Question is can I do some kind of "magic" workaround
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-29
<didrocks> good morning
<ricotz> good morning desktopers
 * ricotz wonders where is "Drowsy Donkey"
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<duflu> Hi didrocks, hi ricotz
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> didrocks, https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/commit/6598b156a7734fd59091aed4e00f11538190345b
<willcooke> \o/ \o/ \o/
<seb128> hey willcooke, already back on local tz?
<willcooke> seb128, nearly.  Stupid day light savings now :((
<seb128> haha
<Laney> hullo
<willcooke> morning Laney
<didrocks> hey seb128, willcooke, nice!
<duflu> Hi seb128 and willcooke
<seb128> hey Laney, duflu, lut didrocks
<duflu> This is weird. I can't build mutter while running Nvidia because it keeps crashing my kernel
<duflu> Only building is the problem
<willcooke> yikes
<Laney> hey willcooke didrocks seb128 duflu
<duflu> Hi Laney
<duflu> willcooke, also IBM acquired RedHat
<duflu> Kind of past tense... it's a long process
<seb128> that one feels weird to me
<seb128> RH has solid results and is expensive, I didn't think they would be to buy
<seb128> crazy capitalist world!
<duflu> Less surprising than <latest overvalued socials site> being acquired
<duflu> (insert your own)
<seb128> well, those it's clear why they sell
<seb128> turning a business that doesn't generate profits into a pile of cash
<seb128> and the facebook&co who buy just have too much money and can afford to spend it to try to keep their lead, even if what they buy isn't successful at least it's not going to be competing with them
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> update-manager just started while I was typing
<seb128> stole focus?
<Laney> Install Now was the active button, and pressing space selected it
<Laney> so now I'm installing updates, yay!
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> duflu, bug #1800277 doesn't look like one where we need to system details, do we?
<ubot5> bug 1800277 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) ""chmod u-w ~/.ICEauthority" breaks login" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800277
<duflu> seb128, I'm not spending enough time on it to be sure. It's just easier to track bugs without understanding them if they are tagged correctly. Hence apport helps
<seb128> right, I'm unsure I like that way of triaging though, it's similar to what kernel is doing
<seb128> you start by receiving a "please test the latest upstream kernel from <...>" even if from reading the description it should be clear what the issue is and that testing a new kernel has no point
<seb128> like "please backport that commit" which is an obvious to triage issue
<duflu> seb128, do whatever you like with it. My goal is for such bugs to not occupy my time, but also to not linger without such basic details
<seb128> k, well I think it's rude to the submitter to "incomplete" a bug that has an useful description and isn't incomplete
<seb128> anyway, I reopened it/commented
<seb128> sorry for the noise
<duflu> seb128, I did not suggest upstream because I was not sure the reporter has the correct package there. And upstream gets enough bogus reports from us, so I'm a bit cautious there
<duflu> It may be a Xorg issue...?
<duflu> Also, a large percentage of bugs end up being abandoned by the reporter. The fastest way to close those is to know which release it was relevant to and wait till EOL
<Trevinho> aloha
<duflu> Selamat pagi, Trevinho
<oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
<jibel> the dock is on top of the lock screen. Anyone's seen that before?
<xnox> jibel, i have had that during release week. andyrock was looking into that.
<xnox> jibel, for me, restarting gnome-shell "fixed it"
<jibel> xnox, just the dock?
<xnox> jibel, yes.
<duflu> jibel, yes happened to me at least once. See also bug 1769383
<ubot5> bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769383
<duflu> Huh. Gitlab is rejecting uploads. That's a good time to say good night
<willcooke> woah
<willcooke> seb128, do you remember a while back I said that all my home dir stuff had moved in to the "Templates" directory
<willcooke> and we said it was probably because I mashed the keyboard
<willcooke> well, it's done it again
<willcooke> and I was doing expenses last time it happened I think
<willcooke> and am doing so again
<willcooke> I need to dig in to this
<oSoMoN> expensify easter egg?
<didrocks> cleanify
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> willcooke, do you dnd images from the desktop to expensify or something?
<willcooke> nah, but I use Gimp to grab screenshots from the credit card for actual transactions, so I wonder if it's something in Gimp
<seb128> using gimp as a snap?
<jibel> "something" keeps disabling my gnome-shell extensions. Any idea what could reset those?
<didrocks> are they still listed in the gsettings key?
<seb128> the lock screen is supposed to unload them and restore them, but that shouldn't change the config
<seb128> do they keep being disabled after a session restart?
<seb128> which I guess is basically Didier's question
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> gsettings get org.gnome.shell enabled-extensions
<jibel> yes
<jibel> also I need to unlock the session twice to unlock. On first attempt I get an aubergine screen without any widget, then on second attempt password field, buttons, labels are displayed.
<jibel> it's really in a weird state.
<jibel> I'll reboot
<seb128> no
<seb128> don't
<jibel> ok
<jibel> :)
<seb128> get Trevinho or andyrock to have a look while it's buggy
<seb128> they might be able to get useful info out of the system while it's in this state
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, ^ could you see if you can help debugging that problem? or at least get the info that could be useful for the bug report/working on it later?
<jibel> argh
<jibel> oct. 29 14:38:02 sark kernel: gnome-tweaks[10495]: segfault at f0 ip 00007f3ee211e102 sp 00007ffc9af35118 error 4 in libgdk-3.so.0.2400.1[7f3ee20ff000+78000]
<jibel> oct. 29 14:38:02 sark kernel: Code: 89 df e8 61 3d fe ff e9 ad fd ff ff 66 66 2e 0f 1f 84 00 00 00 00 00 90 48 8b 87 f0 00 00 00 c3 0f 1f 84 00 00 00 00 00 31 c0 <48> 39 bf f0 00 00 00 0f 94 c0 c3 0f 1f 00 41 55 41 54 55 48 89 f5
<jibel> oct. 29 14:38:11 sark gnome-shell[6838]: JS ERROR: TypeError: windowActor is null
<jibel> Trevinho, andyrock so in summary 2 issues, maybe related: 1. I need to unlock twice to unlock the session 2. After unlock the extensions are all disabled
<andyrock> jibel: is dash-to-dock the only extension still enabled?
<andyrock> jibel: if you can send us the full logs
<jibel> andyrock, full log of what?
<jibel> andyrock, that's all the extensions I have https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cHQRxBBPvG/
<andyrock> jibel: journalctl
<jibel> k, I'll file a bug and attach the logs
<jibel> easier than irc
<Trevinho> Looking also
<andyrock> kk, I'll try to reproduce it using your current set of extensions
<andyrock> but after lunch
<jibel> andyrock, Trevinho bug 1800475 and bug 1800477
<ubot5> bug 1800475 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "double unlock required to unlock the screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800475
<ubot5> bug 1800477 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Extensions are disabled after unlocking the screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800477
<Laney> ~.
<Laney> ooh
<Laney> it came back to life
<Trevinho> ssh cage?
<seb128> Trevinho, ?
<Trevinho> seb128: as per l_aney's ~.
<seb128> ah
<xnox> seb128, marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1800297 invalid; `sudo` group means Admin on ubuntu.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1800297 in systemd (Ubuntu) "localectl updates /etc/default/locale without root privileges" [Undecided,Invalid]
<xnox> and that's what e.g. gnome account services (settings?!) and policykit use for admin/non-admin distinction.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, willcooke popey Wimpress anyone got anything for the g-s stakeholder meeting today?
<robert_ancell> I've got nothing and nothing in the document
<popey> robert_ancell: heya. I have one item. It's in one hour right?
<popey> Just having dinner and will add it.
<robert_ancell> popey, it is but happy to do it now if I can!
<robert_ancell> ok, sure
<popey> Sticky toffee pudding needs eating, sorry :)
<robert_ancell> That's not going to eat itself.
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: I'll be there, just having lunch now
<kenvandine> popey, robert_ancell: that was painful!
<popey> yeah, I dont want to refresh my browser now
<popey> oh, I had another thing I wanted to mention but it was offtopic for that call
<popey> thunderbird snap keeps pestering me for an update. does it need rebuilding?
<kenvandine> probably
<popey> (or can we suppress that in the snap)?
<popey> (or both)
<kenvandine> not sure how to do that in thunderbird, but i'm sure there's a way
<kenvandine> mozilla did something to firefox to do that
<kenvandine> but it was code, not in the snap packaging
<popey> it's an about:config setting i think
<kenvandine> no, they added some logic
<kenvandine> to determine if it was in a snap and disable it as needed
<popey> ahh
<kenvandine> which we can't do in thunderbird until the build is produced differently
<popey> Is there any progress with the thunderbird community?
<kenvandine> popey: not that i'm aware of
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: i just noticed the ratings are now properly showing up on the app tiles in the grid
<kenvandine> that didn't appear to be working on friday
<kenvandine> magic
<kenvandine> popey: i published rev 45 to candidate
<popey> <3
<kenvandine> popey: just track candidate for now
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, oh, they only show up once the review server includes them in the stats - so you need to wait for the server to refresh that file and restart g-s.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, I proposed a fix that uses your review if you are the first reviewer (this is when you see it)
<kenvandine> yeah, but on friday i wasn't seeing reviews i had created long before
<kenvandine> s/reviews/ratings/
<kenvandine> maybe it was just friday of a sprint and i was fried :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-30
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<Trevinho> hola
<didrocks> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey..., when you've some time could you check https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/357992 :)
<Trevinho> (and bionic one https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/357993)
<Trevinho> answering before you might ask, upstream prefers another fix (which still might be not possible), but that at the date would need changes in Xorg, mutter, g-s itself and maybe the extension.... So, safer to go this way :)
<Trevinho> I was discussing this with seb already
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> Trevinho: will review this morning
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<didrocks> Trevinho: shouldn't you put it in the ubuntu/ folder thus?
<didrocks> or do you plan pushing that to Debian as well?
<seb128> Ã§a va, un peu un dÃ©but de rhume depuis qq jours mais qui tourne pas en vrai rhume, je croise les doigts que Ã§a passe :p
<didrocks> seb128: ah, donc le week-end n'a pas Ã©tÃ© aussi terrible que Ã§a au final ?
<Trevinho> didrocks: mh... Well there's still a chance that upstream will take it. And anyways is not too ubuntu specific
<seb128> didrocks, en journÃ©e Ã§a va, c'est tjs le matin/soir
<Trevinho> Buon giorno Sebastiano!
<Trevinho> Come va?
<seb128> hey Trevinho, in non-sleeping mode again? ;)
<didrocks> Trevinho: good thus!
<seb128> Trevinho, Ã§a va bien ! et toi ?
<Trevinho> Need to change timezone, need to adapt
<didrocks> Trevinho: do you know if the --replace fix has already be merged in for the Shell? I wonder how you develop the Shell as long as it's broken
<didrocks> (especially the js)
<Laney> hi THERE
<jamesh> didrocks: what do you think about merging my GTK 3.18 support branch for Yaru?  I mentioned in the PR that the file moves could cause confusing merges for other branches, but I don't want to hold off forever.
<didrocks> jamesh: let me look, I saw clobrano was handling it and didn't want to step on his shoes
<didrocks> jamesh: I would prefer though to keep master SRUable until next week if possible
<didrocks> hey Laney
<jamesh> didrocks: okay.  This shouldn't have any backward compat issues, but I'd understand large scale file moves to raise red flags for that
<didrocks> jamesh: the problem is more on the SRU team which would reject/delay forever due to large size. A week old Yaru is still not reviewed (nor evince, nor â¦)
<didrocks> jamesh: let me still review the build system changes
<didrocks> if we had markers in git to say "move folder", the diff would be really easier :/
<jamesh> yep.  But that'd require file IDs, which git doesn't have
<didrocks> jamesh: I guess you kept the folder name as "gtk-3.0" in the source on purpose, correct?
<seb128> hey Laney jamesh
<didrocks> well, let me ask that on the review directly so that you don't have to wait on my remarks :)
<jamesh> didrocks: I used the same folder names as things are installed to.
<seb128> sorry was busy writing a (long) email :p
<jamesh> didrocks: I suppose I could have left the source layout unchanged and had gtk/src/light/gtk-3.0 for the current theme and gtk/src/light/gtk-3.18 for the old theme
<seb128> didrocks, there has been a round of SRU reviews on cosmic in the night, I got a stack of those approved
<jamesh> and then install the first to gtk-3.20 and the second to gtk-3.0
<jamesh> but that seems like it would cause more confusion down the line
<didrocks> seb128: lucky you, still waiting :p
<seb128> didrocks, jamesh, I don't expect adding-oldgtk-support to be a slow-to-review or problem for SRU
<seb128> it's basically not impacting the distro
<seb128> just the snaps
<seb128> and a new feature
<seb128> I'm happy to talk them into accepting the SRU once it's uploaded
<didrocks> seb128: would be good first to get current Yaru inâ¦
<jamesh> seb128: right, but it looks like a big change in the debdiff
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128
<didrocks> seb128: before uploading another one
<seb128> jamesh, right, but that can be explained to them
<seb128> didrocks, the SRU team has been clear that they want to be pinged/bothered about things we are blocked/waiting on rather than having us frustrated waiting
<didrocks> seb128: well, there is no urgency until you raise this ^
<seb128> so please nag the SRU-member-of-the-day if you are blocked/waiting, or let me know and I can do it
<didrocks> that's why I didn't want to bother them until now
<seb128> k
<seb128> let me nag them today
<jamesh> didrocks: one other change I think would be worth doing is to package up the themes in a gresource file.  That would reduce the overhead of loading the theme
 * didrocks feels schooled everyday around here :(
<seb128> I wonder why your SRU didn't get reviewed though since it's older
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, would be a nice improvements, let's go for this one first though
<jamesh> essentially one open+mmap to get the CSS and all image assets, as a mapping shareable with all other running apps
<willcooke> o/
<seb128> hey willcooke
<andyrock> morning
<didrocks> jamesh: review posted, some small stuff, but looks OK mostly. I trust you to build the snap and test :)
<didrocks> hey willcooke, andyrock
<didrocks> andyrock: if I'm correct, the --replace fix isn't merged in yet. How do you hack on the Shell? :)
<andyrock> didrocks: I'm hacking to fix that crash
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> you can start a new gnome-session with jhbuild
<andyrock> than you can do alt+f2 r
<didrocks> andyrock: hum, I wonder how people can do Shell development meanwhile, like picking up the new js files
<didrocks> with unpacking/repacking
<andyrock> alt+f2 r works
<didrocks> yeah, jhbuild, this is going to take ages :p
<didrocks> or I can write perfect code
<didrocks> build a package
<didrocks> install, and alt+f2
<didrocks> :p
<andyrock> the problem with gnome-shell is that it's exiting with status == 1
<andyrock> gnome-session will read the exit status and try to restart it
<didrocks> ah, that's why the session quit
<didrocks> hum :)
<didrocks> so, a shell script wrapper could just do it!
<andyrock> because it can't be restarted (because there is another gnome-shell process already) it will kill the session
<didrocks> with a beautiful kill + sleep
<andyrock> yeah something to hide the exit status
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you today?
<andyrock> hey seb128 fine you? little bit cold here :D
<andyrock> Trevinho: do you mind cherry-picking https://trello.com/c/2hg9HKfq/111-backport-unable-to-type-capital-letters-using-onscreen-keyboard-to-bionic for the bionic SRU
<andyrock> Trevinho: or do you want me to propose a branch on top of yours?
<seb128> andyrock, same here, a bit cold :)
<willcooke> It's just done it *again*.  All my docs have moved in to Templates
<seb128> did you use a snap?.
<willcooke> Just going through the snaps I've used in the last 12 hours
<Trevinho> andyrock: feel free to propose a branch, in theory I wanted to do a "light" SRU, but it can'be too light since there's already the XUbuntuCancel stuff in git, so I actually need other related branches to be merged
<Trevinho> seb128: can you help me with that? If not who? :)
<seb128> Trevinho, git can be changed
<seb128> I think those fixes are more important that the xubuntu thing
<seb128> I would SRU the fixes first and do xubuntu as another round when we have no more urgent fixes to land
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah I agree
<Trevinho> so, feel free to revert :)
<Trevinho> andyrock: I'm doing it, so I add another fix, no worries
<andyrock> Trevinho: great thanks
<willcooke> updating firmware to test new fwupd.  Wish me luck.
<seb128> willcooke, worked?
<willcooke> worked
<willcooke> new fwupd & gnome-softare
<seb128> brb, moving location to lunch outside, I'm too lazy to be cook today (going to keep working during lunch, need to catch up on my todo before the long w.e)
<Trevinho> willcooke: It did for me too last night :)
<Trevinho> a bit stressing though, since it was beeping all the times, with a single prompt on the screen saying "waiting, update is happening"....
<Trevinho> Laney: when you've a sec can you please merge and sponsor https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+git/mutter/+merge/358007 <3
<willcooke> Trevinho, thats better than Lenovo.  I got a blank screen and nothing else
<willcooke> I just ignored it for a while and prayed
<Trevinho> willcooke: this is a thinkpad, so still lenovo, but was a bit making me nervous
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> I wonder why mine doesnt beer
<willcooke> meh
<Trevinho> not super updated though..
<Trevinho> . https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Tu34szyO/image.png
<Trevinho> but last one was released 4 days ago, let's see how long it takes
<Laney> Trevinho: ok, probably later on though
<Laney> why is the reviewer that?
<Trevinho> Laney: cause I wrongly created a MP before pointing to the packaging
<Trevinho> let me change it
<Trevinho> Laney: take your time, but for any fix I won't be around until 1st
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, speaking in how to dev, you can indeed also just use pure JS files, even without creating the resources
<Trevinho> `GNOME_SHELL_JS=/foo/bar/baz/path/gnome-shell-js gnome-shell `
<seb128> xnox, oh, I forgot to reply yesterday, but yeah "sudo" group ownership should be enough, agreed it's invalid, I just wanted it looked at/confirmed you think it's fine
<xnox> seb128, no problem.
<seb128> xnox, thx for looking at the bug/responding!
<xnox> seb128, commented here as well, just in case the whole world split-brained w.r.t. `the admin group name`
<xnox> cause like i don't follow gnome or policykit close enough
<seb128> right, no, it's all fine :)
<seb128> k, moving back from lunch, brb
<caravena> Yea! 'Disco'
<Trevinho> Ok, time for me to start boarding...
<Trevinho> see you guys from the other side of the ocean!
<willcooke> safe travels Trevinho
<Trevinho> thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, safe flight
<willcooke> stand by
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-10-30
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 30 14:32:38 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-10-30 | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey
<andyrock> o/
<heber> o/
<willcooke> It's a spoooooooooky meeting this week
<tjaalton> hi
<tseliot> o/
<seb128> hey
<willcooke> ð
<oSoMoN> o/
<andyrock> ð»
<willcooke> k, so I'm still not caught up from last week yet.
<jibel> hi
<willcooke> Seb is still reviewing the Bionic bugs
<Laney> ð§
<willcooke> So we will have to skip them and do it next week
<willcooke> This week we will go through the incoming bugs
<willcooke> for C
<willcooke> D can start next week
<willcooke> Just reviewing the list to see if anyone had anything to raise
<willcooke> Looks clear
<willcooke> Trevinho has some reviews needed
<seb128> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1778946 .... did you check if changing the permission of /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf "fixes" the issue?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1778946 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No dns resolution after closing a vpn/pptp connection" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> comment #3
<seb128> (that's the one bug on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html)
<willcooke> Ah, so... VPNs were totally broken last week.
<seb128> :(
<willcooke> I need to test from home
<seb128> k
<willcooke> I spoke to stgraber about it, and once I know what's going on a bit more then I will go back and ask him for some more ideas
<willcooke> I will get that tested this week
<willcooke> I do that resolvconf on this bionic box, I expect because I upgraded
<willcooke> but installing that is not the right fix according to stgraber, who knows a lot about this stuff
<willcooke> so lets see
<willcooke> rls-bb-incoming is being triaged by seb128
<willcooke> rls-cc-incoming:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1798053
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798053 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[SRU] Click on the back icon in gnome-software doesn't work" [High,Fix committed]
<willcooke> Already fixed by oSoMoN
<willcooke> and my VPN bug: http://launchpad.net/bugs/1778946
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1778946 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No dns resolution after closing a vpn/pptp connection" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> which we already talked about
<willcooke> and that's the list
<willcooke> Before we go on to AOB, anyone got anything to ask?
<willcooke> 1 min timeout
<Laney> b only has one bug, not sure why that needed to be skipped?
<willcooke> oh yeah
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1797604
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Xserver opengl problems on i5-8259U" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> guessing it was tracking that is supposed to be gardened
<willcooke> Laney, ah yeah
<willcooke> tjaalton, any thoughts on that xorg bug? ^
<seb128> +1 to -notfix
<seb128> -intel is not the default driver nowadays
<willcooke> ohhhh
<willcooke> because it's i915
<willcooke> now?
<tseliot> modesetting
<Laney> brb door
<willcooke> so seb128 you are -1 on accepting?
<tjaalton> willcooke: what seb128 said
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> good enough for me, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, right, based on the fact that it's not the default driver so low impact
<seb128> it can be fixed
<seb128> but doesn't need rls tracking
<Laney> hell yeah
<willcooke> done
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-10-30 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything?
<willcooke> I'll send round an update from SLC once I've got my thoughts straight.
<andyrock> none from me
<willcooke> In the meantime, just had a call with jibel kenvandine and seb128 - so they will know some of the high level details if you can't wait
<willcooke> andyrock, you still ok for Monday?
<andyrock> yup!
<willcooke> It's sushi day!
<andyrock> :(
<willcooke> It's Borough Market day!
<andyrock> niiice
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> kk, 2 min timeout for AOB
<Laney> monday??????????
<Laney> (flat iron day)
<willcooke> Laney, going to meet with m_pt re: Livepatch designs
<Laney> nod, fun
<willcooke> ok, thanks all - we're done
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 30 14:48:49 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-10-30-14.32.moin.txt
<seb128> thx!
<didrocks> thx
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<jibel> thanks
<andyrock> thx!
<jibel> new bug with the screen lock. I unlocked the screen and it didn't ask for a password
<willcooke> jibel, O_o
<popey> robert_ancell: scrap the idea of *-featured. The top 20 in every section are "featured".
<robert_ancell> popey, ok, so the sections are ordered from best to worst?
<popey> not really. first 20 are featured, rest are "also rans" :)
<robert_ancell> popey, do you expect the top twenty will be shown in order, so the #1 game will always be featured?
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> That would give us some control, yes.
<popey> (chatting with wimpy, he agrees)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-31
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Ã§a va, et toi?
<oSoMoN> il a plu toute la nuit et il continue Ã  pleuvoir fort, je me prÃ©pare Ã  affronter les Ã©lÃ©ments pour aller Ã  lâÃ©coleâ¦
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã  part les acouphÃ¨nes, Ã§a va. La pluie est passÃ©e ici (c'Ã©tait ce week-end et lundi)
<jibel> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<seb128> I saw a long discussion on #ubuntu-devel yesterday about the overlay for the iso, was there any useful outcome?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, at least, we know what can or cannot be done
<seb128> so what can be done? ;)
<didrocks> meaning: some of the really niceness we could have get from the layer approach isn't feasable in how it's implemented, sadely :/
<seb128> I wonder if we should start collecting those notes in a shared document
<seb128> :(
<seb128> or maybe that ends up in the blueprint/spec
<didrocks> right now it's some notes on a text file in my disk
<didrocks> my goal was to put that in the blueprint itself
<didrocks> less volatile than a google doc somewhere IMHO
<didrocks> I have diagrams btw
<seb128> sounds good
<seb128> thx!
<didrocks> yw
<Laney> hey
<didrocks> hey Laney
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how is u.k today?
<willcooke> seb128, it's sunny but zero degrees
<seb128> same here, cold & sunny
<seb128> which is much better than yesterday's cold&rainy
<willcooke> :))
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128 willcooke ð§ ð§  ð§ ð
<willcooke> :)
<andyrock> seb128: thx for the reviews :)
<seb128> andyrock, np!
<seb128> does anyone can hint me on how to easily tweak/Edit a patch with gbp pq?
<seb128> like give me a branch with the diff applied when I can hack and do a refresh
<xnox> gbp pq import --force; git rebase -i, select a thing to edit, edit; gbp pq export
<xnox> seb128, is a `general recipe`
<seb128> xnox, I tried that (thx to google) but rebase -i coplains about having no info about the current branch
<xnox> odd
 * xnox ponders which branch you are on
<seb128> $ git rebase -i
<seb128> There is no tracking information for the current branch.
<seb128> Please specify which branch you want to rebase against.
<xnox> seb128, ah
<seb128> * patch-queue/ubuntu/bionic
<seb128> so that one?
<xnox> seb128, git rebase -i <committish> =) sorry, you need to do something like $ git rebase -i HEAD^^^^ -> to rebase the last four patches.
<xnox> good.
<xnox> or like do $ git log
<xnox> to look up the commit id, before the one you want to tweak.
<seb128> k, thx
 * xnox hopes above makes sense.
<Laney> for a non-pushed branch like this one I'd just give the original branch name (ubuntu/bionic)
<Laney> doesn't matter if you rebase "too much" in this case
 * xnox likes Laney's comment too
<Laney> :3
<Laney> TIL rebase -i with no branch though
<seb128> I need to learn more git
<seb128> that was a fail
<seb128> export doesn't include my changes ^^
<seb128> was "git rebase --abort" maybe not the right way to end the rebasing?
<Laney> nope, --continue after amending the commit
<seb128> Laney, xnox, thx, I managed to do it
<seb128> never used rebase -i, I first started by deleting all the line I was not interested in and changing a "pick" to "edit", that didn't work great
<seb128> it eventually worked by keeping the other line and just changing the line I was interested in
<Laney> nod
<Laney> it's like "do these actions on top of the base I chose"
<Laney> so if you delete a pick, it is lost
<Laney> that is actually useful to do intentionally sometimes of course
<Laney> in patch-queue terms it means dropping this patch
<seb128> k, I understand now, thx :)
<jdstrand> seb128: fyi, will be uploading a fix for the thumbnailer bug today
<jdstrand> (sprint last week, off last two days)
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, I did for cosmic yesterday since you were not around and I think my change makes sense, let me know if that looks wrong though, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/395375642/evince_3.30.1-1ubuntu1_3.30.1-1ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
<jdstrand> seb128: I wanted to use: owner /tmp/{,.}gnome{_,-}desktop{_,-}-thumbnailer.* w,
<jdstrand> seb128: since I've seen _ used elsewhere
<jdstrand> it was probably a gnome-desktop change, but the above rule is forward and backward compatible
<seb128> jdstrand, cf my comment on the bug / https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/blob/master/libgnome-desktop/gnome-desktop-thumbnail-script.c#L730
<jdstrand> I gotta run atm though. I'll read backscroll
<seb128> jdstrand, the different is bubblewrap codepath or not I think
<seb128> jdstrand, but if you want to replaced my upload with yours wfm
<seb128> jdstrand, thx
<andyrock> finally fixed the crash with 'gnome-shell --replace' \o/
<andyrock> well at least proposed a fix
<seb128> nice
<seb128> andyrock, so I found a problem with livepatch notification, I wanted to look at fixing it today but looks like I'm not going to be able to squeeze that
<seb128> I did upload fixes for update-managers/g-i-s/etc though
<andyrock> seb128: what problem?
<seb128> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/1800862
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1800862 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Doesn't communicate about applied livepatch on start" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> seb128: mmm I'm not sure canonical-livepatch daemon deletes the status file if no patch is applied
<seb128> andyrock, ?
<andyrock> seb128: that means that once the file is there it's going to stay there, even if there is no patch applied
<seb128> the problem is rather that if you have an update, the status is updated on boot/when system gets online
<seb128> so the event happens before update-notifier is loaded
<seb128> (maybe before user login)
<seb128> so you don't get the notification
<andyrock> seb128: I see the problem but checking for the file when update-notifier starts it's going to create other issues
<seb128> would make sense to notification if the status had some applied?
<seb128> whcih one?
<andyrock> seb128: imagine this scenario
<andyrock> 1) you get a livepatch update
<andyrock> 2) lp daemon creates a status file
<andyrock> 3) update-notifier shows a notification
<andyrock> 4) you update the kernel
<andyrock> 5) now no lp patch is applied but the file is still there
<andyrock> 6) on next reboot update-notifier will show a notification even if no patch is applied
<seb128> the lp is applied no?
<andyrock> nope
<seb128> until you reboot you are on the pre-update kernel no?
<andyrock> yeah
<andyrock> once you reboot you get a new kernel, no lp patches
<andyrock> there is no point in showing a notification
<seb128> that's already an issue today no?
<seb128> ah
<seb128> I see
<seb128> I would argue that that status file should be deleted on boot
<seb128> but are you sure it's going to be there wrong?
<andyrock> seb128: that or we need a serial number
<seb128> on next boot, lp refresh should happen
<seb128> and the status should be "no update"
<seb128> and not "applied <n>"
<seb128> no?
<andyrock> in theory yes, but for the moment it's just used to notify applied patches
<andyrock> we need to fix canonical-livepatch
<seb128> we could compare timestamp of the status and of the boot
<seb128> and notify on start if status is newer than boot?
<seb128> like compare age to uptime
<andyrock> that too, we just need to make sure that the squashfs thing does not mess up with timestamps
<seb128> the status in /var, that's not in a squashfs no?
<andyrock> ah yeah so we're saafe
<andyrock> yeah that would work
<seb128> andyrock, I commented on the bug
<andyrock> seb128: I'll add it to my todo list
<seb128> andyrock, thx, if you are too busy I can have a look next week
<seb128> but I'm off tomorrow and friday
<andyrock> tomorrow is national holiday for me too
<andyrock> I'll add a trello card
<seb128> thx
<seb128> enjoy the day off :)
<seb128> k, desktopers, I'm going to call it a day in 10 min or so, driving for the w.e.  I might checkout emails later/tomorrow morning but otherwise I'm off until monday
<seb128> good luck for those who work those days, enjoy those who have days off, swaps, etc
<Laney> byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<Laney> have fun!
<seb128> bye
<seb128> thx, you too
<seb128> :)
<caravena> Trevinho: Hello, please review: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1799994 (For GDM3)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1799994 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "Xorg loads, no display on nvidia 390.77-0ubuntu0.18.04.1" [Undecided,New]
<caravena> Â¿Bug in gdm3?
<caravena> Thanks!
<oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI, I'm going to create disco bzr branches for firefox
<willcooke> I'm off, night out tonight \o/
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-01
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks.
<duflu> Wait, holidays?
<duflu> Oh, no. I see
<didrocks> hey duflu: swapped with tomorrow :)
<Nafallo> o/
<duflu>     \o
<Nafallo> I iz ze tired.
<didrocks> hey Nafallo
<Nafallo> coffee and medicine... that's better :-P
<duflu> RAOF: Was it this missing from archive that we need for EGLStreams builds? https://github.com/NVIDIA/egl-wayland
<duflu> It would be nice if when switching Nvidia to KMS that it used the Nvidia hardware and not software rendering :)
<tjaalton> hum, maybe I should package those for pkg-xorg
<Nafallo> duflu: sounds like an expectation problem ;-)
<duflu> tjaalton, I'm not completely sure but I think that package has what's missing to cause mutter builds to say EGLStreams support is absent
<duflu> -package +project
<tjaalton> right
<tjaalton> does kms cause issues on xorg side too?
<duflu> Honestly, I forgot to try Nvidia KMS with Xorg
<duflu> I'm back to Intel
<doko> is osomon working this week?
<duflu> doko, not back till Monday
<doko> ouch, libreoffice ftbfs in disco :-/
<duflu> tjaalton, I would not recommend flipping the KMS switch by default at the same time. But only because I don't know all the consequences
<tjaalton> at the same time as..?
<duflu> tjaalton, at the same time as packaging the missing eglstreams stuff
<tjaalton> k
<duflu> Forgot for a moment they are separate source packages, so less of an issue
<tjaalton> I surely won't
<tjaalton> though I'd expect nvidia to ship a version of it, no
<tjaalton> ?
<duflu> tjaalton, again not sure. Only seen it on github
<duflu> Owned by NVIDIA
<tjaalton> with the driver I mean
<tjaalton> they shipped libglvnd too
<duflu> I am guessing they don't consider it mature, or blessed, or something
<tjaalton> since they're the only consumer I can think of
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Nafallo> hi willcooke
<Laney> yello
<Nafallo> morning Laney
<duflu> ello Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey Nafallo duflu and didrocks!
<doko> ricotz: please could you have a look at the libreoffice ftbfs in disco?
<ricotz> doko, this is the openjdk11 problem
<ricotz> doko, just apply https://launchpadlibrarian.net/392800154/libreoffice_1%3A6.1.3~rc1-0ubuntu0.18.10.1_1%3A6.1.3~rc1-0ubuntu0.18.10.2.diff.gz
* willcooke changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<RAOF> We just need a devel link for `libnvidia-wayland-egl`, which is shipped in the main NVIDIA packages.
<RAOF> <freenode_duf "RAOF: Was it this missing from a"> No, that's not it.
<tjaalton> RAOF: is it ok to build-depend on packages from restricted?
<tjaalton> I don't think that would be a solution for debian anyway
<tjaalton> so it'd need to be packaged, which is almost done now
<dchalmers> qq: If I am on cosmic, is it possible to install software from a PPA where the author hasn't provided a Release file for cosmic yet?
<willcooke> dchalmers, short answer AFAIK, no
<willcooke> I expect there is a way to try and force it, but I wouldnt bother
<kenvandine> willcooke: i can't add jamesh to a card on the 19.04 board.  Maybe he needs to be added to the board as well?
<kenvandine> popey: that content interface bug (platform snap not mounting) has been fixed!
<kenvandine> popey: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6044/files
<gitbot> snapcore issue (Pull request) 6044 in snapd "cmd/snap-confine: remove stale mount profile along stale namespace" [â  Critical, Closed]
<willcooke> kenvandine, try now
<willcooke> kenvandine, I've added him but maybe he has to accept it first
<kenvandine> willcooke: bingo, thanks
<kenvandine> willcooke: we need till as well
<om26er> Where do Canonical's hardware certification guys hang, is there an IRC channel ?
<om26er> Specifically wanted to talk to them about this issue I reported https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-certification/+question/675854
<Laney> not sure there's a place
<willcooke> parents evening, bbiab
<willcooke> back
<popey> kenvandine: yay!
<willcooke> night all
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, https://imgur.com/a/K6NyrsN
<RAOF> tjaalton: KMS by default would cause problems, yes.
<RAOF> tjaalton: For example, on my hybrid laptop, having nvidia KMS enabled results in no output in X (because, even though the NVIDIA KMS node cannot drive the internal panel, the modesetting driver bound to the Intel DRM node thinks its a PRIME slave and so doesn't drive the internal panel either)
<RAOF> tjaalton: And, looking at it again, I think that https://github.com/NVIDIA/egl-wayland would be enough to build EGLStreams-based compositors out of.
<RAOF> I was a bit confused because a symbol they need is not defined in there, but due to the magic of `wayland-scanner` it should be defined in generated code that gets linked inâ¦
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-02
<tjaalton> RAOF: good, i'll put it on a ppa once i'm done
<tjaalton> it needs eglexternalplatform headers, and that's ready
<tjaalton> om26er: technically, it was certified with 16.04
<tjaalton> t480s/x1c I mean
<jibel> Good morning
<Laney> pew
<Laney> AH YESSSSSSSSSSSS everyone's off today aren't they
<duflu> Hi jibel and Laney. Yes, this is it desktop wise. Also, hi tjaalton
<duflu> Hyphenation left as an exercise for the reader
<Laney> howdy duflu
<Laney> how's it going in upside down land?
<zyga> om26er: hey, the y are in #ce-certification-qa on the internal IRC
<tjaalton> zyga, om26er: I asked about this, and apparently it's better in linux because it's more stable this way.. so if you want something to change then talk to whatever is the upstream
 * zyga is not in the loop
<tjaalton> you are now :)
<tjaalton> duflu: howdy
<zyga> I'm off today, visiting parents
<zyga> just using my laptop to teach my dad something so please be mindful of laggy response
<duflu> ð Going ok, Laney. You?
<Laney> not bad - can't see a cloud in the sky!
<Laney> Helps if you don't remove units you're trying to start
<popey> kenvandine: I am getting a popup in firefox revision 142 suggesting I upgrade
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2GHWSdtH/Screenshot%20from%202018-11-02%2012-10-07.png
<popey> I have snap revision 147 installed, but I'm currently running 142 (I tend not to close the browser often). Do you know if it's fixed beyond 142?
<kenvandine> popey: the check should be disabled in firefox upstream
<kenvandine> so something has changed there
<kenvandine> popey: that dialog looks different from what we saw before and the wording makes it sound like it already tried to update itself
<kenvandine> must be a new feature
<popey> if i click the button it takes me to their download page on mozilla.org
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> that dialog should never be shown in the snap
<kenvandine> popey: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436457
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1436457 in General "Provide a way to remove the check for updates button in about" [Normal,New]
<kenvandine> that's an existing bug to remove the ability to check
<kenvandine> which hasn't been resolved
<kenvandine> popey: i thought it had, i guess the snap auto updating reduces the exposure there :)
<popey> yeah, people like me who rarely close their browser doesn't help
<popey> I haven't closed my browser for 4 days, which is pretty common
<kenvandine> popey: i think that's the norm
<kenvandine> i never restart mine either :)
<Trevinho> Buen dÃ­a!
 * willcooke -> post office bbiab
<willcooke> back
<willcooke> hey Trevinho, good trip?
<popey> willcooke: did you see fedora have added cleartype support, allegedly because MS are in OIN now. So I guess their lawyers have said it's good.
<popey> Been pinged by community people asking if we will do the same.
<willcooke> Ah, I didnt
<willcooke> I'll ask legal
<willcooke> We kinda already do
<willcooke> just behind a EULA
<willcooke> I'd be surprised if much changes there, but I will check it out
<willcooke> oh, my bad, I read that as freetype
<popey> Yeah, i should have said ClearTypeâ¢
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> Legal have been pung
<mdeslaur> we've always had cleartype enabled
<willcooke> ah ah, there we go
<willcooke> thanks mdeslaur
<popey> \o/
<mdeslaur> see enable-subpixel-rendering.patch
<Laney> yeah, fedora had that same patch but it was only applied if you passed some flag or something
<Trevinho> willcooke: hey... Yes good one, in MÃ©xico city now
<willcooke> niiiiiiice!
<Trevinho> yeah is a cool city
<mitya57> Trevinho: hi! Unity FTBFS on armhf in my disco PPA, do you know anything about this error? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/395736316/buildlog_ubuntu-disco-armhf.unity_7.5.0+19.04.20181102-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> I'm in London on Monday
<willcooke> have a good weekend
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-03
<tjaalton> RAOF: fyi, egl-wayland is now in ppa:canonical-x/x-staging for disco
<LargePrime> DISCO!
<LargePrime>  hi.  weird question.  i want to install ubuntu to my USB stick, as an install, not a live cd.  do i have to have a second usb drive, run live cd on that, and install from the live to the destination usb thumb, or can i just install lubuntu straight onto the USB drive from my ubuntu OS
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-28
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<duflu> seb128, sore from excessive weeding :) And also have a trio of birthdays... You?
<seb128> I'm good, we had a (mostly) relaxing w.e
<seb128> we went to see the 'Cirque du soleil' on saturday which was very nice
<duflu> That's usually great!
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN, did you have a good w.e?
<didrocks> was good, thanks!
<oSoMoN> yeah, bbq in the sun on Saturday, and welcome party for new families at the school on Sunday, a very good week-end
<seb128> nice
<duflu> Ugh, I meant "had" not "have", obviously
<jibel> on focal, gnome-shell hand when I press a shortcut eg ctrl+alt+t, anyone seen that?
<jibel> hm, and now I cannot log in
<seb128> I'm not using focal yet, still have eoan SRUs and fixing to do and focal opening hasn't even be announced yet
<seb128> I would recommend against using it before at least the initial sync went through and thing have a chance to settle down a bit
<jibel> yeah but the machine didn't boot in eoan, so I had to try focal
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<Laney> hi ho
<RAOF> And a fine day to you too, Laney!
<duflu> Morning jibel, marcustomlinson and Laney. Evening RAOF
<seb128> hey Laney, marcustomlinson, how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> no willcooke anymore in that round of greetings, feeling weird
<Laney> hey RAOF duflu seb128
<Laney> i'm doing alright thanks!
<Laney> went away with friends for the weekend, was nice
<Laney> the place we were staying had cats
<didrocks> hey Laney ;)
<RAOF> For some reason that sounds like âthe place had verminâ ð
<RAOF> But I presume that's not the intended reading!
<Laney> try as I might, I can only read it as a delightful experience
<Laney> yo didrocks
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you today? had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<Wimpress> Yep, good weekend thanks. Filled with Lego and swimming ð
<Wimpress> And you?
<seb128> w.e was good
<seb128> went to see the 'cirque du soleil' on saturday, impressive show, I recommend it if you have the opportunity
<Wimpress> Ooh. Something I've wanted to see.
<seb128> :-)
<marcustomlinson> oooh fancy
<duflu> ðª
<Wimpress> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-October/040834.html
<Wimpress> Had a bit of turbo lag this morning.
<Wimpress> Helping pack the car, my girls are going away for a few days.
<didrocks> popey: hey! zsys fix should now be published on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/zsys/+packages, I changed the bug description with the 2 use cases (for people being impacted and people installing the fixed version directly). Tested locally and it works. Would welcome a confirmation :)
<didrocks> I managed to get both use cases addressed (uploaded to focal already)
<Laney> did we rls the bug about the wrong audio device being selectd?
<Laney> ah yeah, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1847570 cool
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1847570 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Eoan) "PulseAudio automatically switches to HDMI sound output on login" [Medium,Triaged]
<popey> didrocks: on it
<didrocks> thanks :)
<popey> didrocks: confirmed and commented
<Laney> AH
<Laney> perhaps that is what was breaking the firefox thing I whined about last week
<didrocks> popey: thanks! (and I tested on a broken system, dancing on a tty and upgrading, and it works as well) :)
<popey> Thanks for the quick fix
<didrocks> uploading to eoan-proposed once autopkgtests for focal pass
<didrocks> thanks for finding this!
<popey> np. sorry for ruining your monday :D
<didrocks> haha, well, better for having it spotted ;)
<seb128> Laney, wasn't your about streams being muted?
<Laney> might just be that they were outputting on the hdmi device
<Laney> and that is how this situation is represented in g-c-c
<Laney> last comment on https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/issues/749
<seb128> yeah, could be I guess, though in theory there is no reason they should show as muted if they output on another port ... I guess we fix the first bug and see if the other one is still an issue
<Laney> dunno how it works
<Laney> but if it's like this it would make complete sense to me
<Laney> send to one output -> 0 volume on the others
<seb128> Ah, seen like that
<seb128> I was expecting non-active-device to just not be listed but it's another valid way to have them showing but having the sound to 0
<Laney> I'll just try turning off that module
<Laney> if the theory is true then I think g-c-c / gnome-shell got confused about the state because they were still controlling line out
<Laney> so maybe it doesn't make sense :-)
<clobrano> hey all 0/
<seb128> hey clobrano, how are you? how was your weekend?
<clobrano> hey seb128, I'm fine, and the we was good, I went yesterday to see some stars and planets with ta telescope :D
<clobrano> seb128, how about you?
<seb128> I'm good, w.e was nice, we want to see the 'cirque du soleil' which was a nice show, otherwise some small works in the house and relaxing time
<seb128> weather also starts being cold here, going to almost freeze at night this week brrrrr
<clobrano> wow, I'd love to see the Cirque to soleil
<clobrano> I think I broke something on yaru's deb package with this https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/pull/1578as reported here https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/1591
<clobrano> The PR above changes the installation path to /usr/share/themes/Yaru/gnome-shell and creates a symlink to /usr/share/gnome-shell/themes/YaruDid I miss to update something in the Yaru/debian folder?
<marcustomlinson> hey clobrano
<seb128> clobrano, https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/blob/master/debian/yaru-theme-gnome-shell.postinst
<seb128> is the css from line 7 still existing on disk?
<clobrano> seb128, yes it exists
<clobrano> but I thought that the installation script would create the symlink as installing from source does
<clobrano> and then I expected the path to exist
<seb128> it seems to not exist in the deb
<seb128> how do you do the symlink?
<seb128> didrocks ^ you probably know their build machinery better than me, maybe you know directly what's wrong?
<clobrano> the symlink is made here https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/blob/master/gnome-shell/src/install-shell.sh, as  meson's install script meson.add_install_script('install-shell.sh', meson.project_name())
<seb128> clobrano, from https://launchpadlibrarian.net/448541820/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-amd64.yaru-theme_19.10.4+201910260248+04f5461~ubuntu18.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2019-10-26 02:48 ./usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/Yaru -> ../../themes/Yaru/gnome-shell
<seb128> clobrano, I didn't debug on a real system and might be overlooking something but one reason could be that the target doesn't exist because the other package isn't installed (yet)
<seb128> is that file new in the other deb? in which case it might be that you need to ensure the target is installed first
<seb128> the g-s binary should at least Depends on the binary which ships the symlink target
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I guess you have been pinged about that/it's on our backlog, but you are looking at the focal/libreoffice/autopkgtest failure?
 * clobrano checking the file
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I may have been pinged and missed it... I've been away since Wednesday, let me check excuses
<seb128> marcustomlinson, new cycle opening so half of the world changed
<clobrano> seb128, yes this symlink is new and in fact, /usr/share/themes/Yaru is created by the gtk part
<seb128> marcustomlinson, http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libr/libreoffice/focal/amd64
<clobrano> seb128, installing first yaru gtk deb and then yaru shell deb it seems to work on my VM, not on the guy who opened the bug, don't know why
<seb128> clobrano, I've asked for some debug details on the issue, let's see
<clobrano> seb128, thanks!
<seb128> marcustomlinson, you probably got bitten by some depends changing while the world was being replaced behind your feet
<seb128> oSoMoN, https://trello.com/c/cbm9DllY/237-thunderbird-6812-update and https://trello.com/c/UnkgODhV/244-thunderbird-6820-update should we merge the card or do you still plan to go through .1 first?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'll jump directly to 68.2, so the 68.1.2 card can be marked done, as it's already in eoan and focal
<seb128> oSoMoN, k, thx, let me know if you want me to do the trello triage or if you do it
<oSoMoN> I'll do it, thanks
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<didrocks> clobrano: seem, you mostly figured it out, correct? Do not hesitate if you need me
<clobrano> didrocks, probably :D, otherwise I'll ping you later
<hellsworth> good morning everyone
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> kenvandine: did you resolve your linker issue?
<marcustomlinson> morning kenvandine and hellsworth
<kenvandine> hellsworth: no...
<kenvandine> i decided to try gnome-calculator as a first example instead :)
<kenvandine> but that's failing to find valac
<hellsworth> the staple test app :)
<kenvandine> however... it's there
<hellsworth> interesting
<kenvandine> meson.get_compiler(valac) fails
<hellsworth> i'm picking back up with gnome-clocks, tyring to get a consistent failure
<hellsworth> hmm
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> not sure how this works in marcustomlinson's snap and fails here :)
<kenvandine> i'll get back to it in a bit
<hellsworth> maybe it's some general path problem since gnome-3-34-1804-sdk def builds vala
<kenvandine> it's in the PATH we set in build-environment
<marcustomlinson> I'm just magic
<kenvandine> but i'm not sure how meson finds valac
<hellsworth> s/marcus/merlin/
<kenvandine> might not be checking the path
<kenvandine> i'm working on something else this morning, will get back to it in a bit
<hellsworth> sounds good
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: what's the issue? meson not finding vala with the gnome-3-34-1804-sdk build snap?
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: yes
<ricotz> meson respects a VALAC envar pointing the valac executable
<kenvandine> ricotz: thanks!
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: here's my expanded yaml
<kenvandine> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/rywF3nPjH9/
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: see line 71 - gnome-3-32-1804-sdk should be gnome-3-34-1804-sdk
<marcustomlinson> x4
<kenvandine> oh geez, missed one :)
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, sorry that took a bit, but I've added  intel-gmmlib, intel-media-driver, intel-compute-runtime to https://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/xorg.html now
<RikMills> o/ popeytesting
<tomreyn> not registered :)
<tjaalton> seb128: cool, thanks
<tjaalton> seb128: looks like it's checking against eoan and not focal?
<seb128> tjaalton, yeah, that was just fixed, next refresh should have it
<tjaalton> ah
<seb128> sorry :)
<tjaalton> heh, there's time
<seb128> Laney, do you know of any example of a package that opt-ed out of systemd-auto-enablement created by dh_installsystemduser? or how to do that best?
<Laney> seb128: doesn't it have a parameter to do that?
<Laney> yeh, --no-enable, is that what you want?
<seb128> Laney, that works for new installs but isn't going to disable it for upgraders
<seb128> it's just removing the snippet that does the enablement from postinst
<Laney> oh, didn't understand that you wanted to fix up existing systems
<seb128> I guess I need to copy the prerm snippet to the postinst of the new package or something
<Laney> guess you get to call deb-systemd-helper disable
<Laney> or whatever it is
<seb128> the autogenerated postrm does
<seb128> deb-systemd-helper --user mask ...
<seb128> on remove
<seb128> and
<seb128> deb-systemd-helper --user purge
<seb128> deb-systemd-helper --user unmask
<seb128> on purge
<Laney> not sure what these commands do exactly
<seb128> I guess I want to purge/unmask if I want to pretend the enablement never happened?
<seb128> Laney, thx, last question for now ... any opinion on what's the right maintainer script to do the cleaning? preinst of the new package?
<Laney> postinst probably, then you don't have to worry about if the dependencies are right
<Laney> probably before #DEBHELPER# and guarded by a version chekc for only only upgrades from the buggy versions
<Laney> s/dependencies/pre-dependencies/
<seb128> Laney, thx
<kenvandine> hellsworth, marcustomlinson: I have gnome-calculator built with the gnome-3-34 extension and the build snap
<marcustomlinson> \o/
<hellsworth> nice!!
<hellsworth> kenvandine: would you mind pelase sharing with me your calculator yaml?
<hellsworth> maybe it will help me with clocks
<kenvandine> hellsworth: evince built too
<hellsworth> wow that's great to hear!
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: trying to open the about dialog in evince built with the gnome-3-34-1804 build crashes the same way drawing is
<kenvandine> hellsworth: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Wj72kJk8tq/
<kenvandine> hellsworth: and my diff to your extension https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XJ5S2qh2tg/
<kenvandine> hellsworth: we should refactor the platform and build snap paths out into a variable
<kenvandine> so it can be more easily updated for the next version
<hellsworth> ken thanks! i only see build snap paths (which we can def put in a var).
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: yeah sorry haven't gotten to the bottom of that yet. I did try a build of gnome-3-34-1804 last week and same issue with epiphany
<kenvandine> hellsworth: look closely, it's both build snap and platform snap paths :)
<hellsworth> ah ok i see the platform snap path wayy down the LD_LIBRARY_PATH line :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: correction... not opening the about dialog but opening the menu
<hellsworth> when should you use build-snaps to point to the build snap? any part that would include build-packages that is already built by the build snap?
<kenvandine> yes
<hellsworth> mkay
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: why does the build environment need to know anything about the platform contents?
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: something i was planning to talk to you about
<kenvandine> there are libs in the runtime that aren't in the build snap
<kenvandine> which is odd
<marcustomlinson> possibly from stage-packages
<kenvandine> yeah, we should probably stage them in the build snap too
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> snapcraft does ensure the platform snap is installed during the build
<kenvandine> so it might be fine
<marcustomlinson> might as well move whatever is staged that is needed for build over
<marcustomlinson> those find -exec rm commands ensure the dups are dealt with so _should_ be simples
<oSoMoN> popey, shall I mark bug #1850174 invalid, or is there something you wanted me to look into?
<ubot5> bug 1850174 in firefox (Ubuntu) "This is not a bug, please ignore - just testing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850174
<popey> Yes please
<popey> Sorry, I should have
<oSoMoN> np, thanks
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: so yet another victim of the crasher you are hunting.  it seems everything that uses gtk crashes when build with either gnome-3-32-1804 or gnome-3-34-1804
<marcustomlinson> yeah :/ a little less than ideal
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: I'll hit this head on tomorrow, got a little distracted with libreoffice autopkgtests
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> well, at least it's obviously broken
<marcustomlinson> right
<kenvandine> not subtle runtime issues
<hellsworth> kenvandine: i had to restart my system so i missed it.. what is the other victim of the same crasher? clocks?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: I think kenvandine was still referring to the evince crash
<kenvandine> yeah... evince
<kenvandine> it starts the app though
<hellsworth> ah ok thanks
<kenvandine> i think this is something related svg loading
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: If you switch to highcontrast theme it will probably not crash
<hellsworth> oh right some themes caused the crash while others didn't
<marcustomlinson> any theme with svg icons is the guess
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: confirmed, works with highcontrast
<marcustomlinson> alright good to know it's the same issue and not a new one at least
<kenvandine> same for calculator
<kenvandine> it crashes loading the about dialog
<kenvandine> it's fine until then
<mitya57> Wimpress: hi! Can you please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~muktupavels/compiz/+git/compiz/+merge/374783?
<mitya57> Ubuntu MATE no longer ships compiz, so maybe we can remove that config altogether? Or better move it to some other package?
<jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, I know that firefox isn't our snap, but I'm wondering if you've seen the issue where on 19.10 wayland, firefox works fine and has proper theming in one profile, but not another
<kenvandine> jdstrand: i haven't used wayland recently
<popey> robert_ancell: why does ubuntu software have two login options in the burger menu? Is this a known bug? It was like this on 19.04 and 19.10 too
<robert_ancell> popey, hmm, the Ubuntu One login should be unused since we switched to ODRS I think? I hadn't noticed that, thanks for pointing out.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-29
<handsome_feng>  /set net_ping_timeout 0
<handsome_feng> Sorry...
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<duflu> Morning jibel and didrocks
 * duflu is incredibly frustrated at replacing the same taps 3 times in 2 days and is glad to be sitting at a desk again
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut diddledan
<oSoMoN> darn stupid tab completion
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> also, good morning diddledan :)
<duflu> Now we need an 'oSoSiMiLaR'
<oSoMoN> and a 'dufnotquitelu'
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: would it inconvenience you if i uploaded cargo 0.39 to focal?
<mwhudson> (and maybe the new rustc too although that's being awkward)
<oSoMoN> mwhudson, that should be fine
<oSoMoN> what's awkward about it?
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: well, maybe i should say non-trivial
<mwhudson> i did an upstream update in a lazy way and it fails to build
<mwhudson> whereas cargo 0.39 was actually much easier than 0.37 -> 0.38
<seb128> goooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme aujourd'hui ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien!
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<seb128> duflu, how are you?
<seb128> duflu, sorry for not commenting on the IS trello card when the RT was sent
<duflu> seb128, Going OK. No problem. How are you?
<seb128> I'm good, I went to bed early yesterday, was good to have a longer night :)
<seb128> duflu, I'm going to try to build a list of bugs that would be nice to fix tor the LTS, like papercut/polish kind of things, if you have some of those on your list or cross some when trying feel free to tag them/note them down and send them in my direction
<seb128> then I'm going to try to argue at the product sprint that we need part of the cycle allocated to work on those
<duflu> seb128, use rls-ff-incoming or something else?
<seb128> something else, incoming are team reviewed in the perspective of being release blockers and then tracked
<seb128> those would rather be a wishlist/papercut project
<seb128> like things that would make a difference in polish level for the LTS but are not release critical
<duflu> How about "bugs I can find in the first 5 seconds after logging in"
<seb128> those are probably good candidate for polish fixing :)
<duflu> seb128, I will use a tag of your choosing
<seb128> duflu, desktop-lts-wishlist ?
<duflu> Sure, whatever it is it only needs to be unique
<seb128> k, let's use that then
<seb128> thx :)
<duflu> seb128, just remembered I had used 'visual-quality' for that for a few years. Already a long list
<seb128> k, I will review that list as well
<seb128> don't bother re-tagging those
<seb128> wooot, that's quite a list indeed
<duflu> Lots of Unity stuff in there so mostly ignorable
<seb128> I will review it and tag some with the new tag
<seb128> jamesh, tkamppeter, (Cc Laney FYI), rls bugs on discourse update reminder
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary also :)
<jamesh> will do.
<seb128> thx
<duflu> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-lts-wishlist
<seb128> duflu, that looks like a nice list, thanks!
<ricotz> godd morning desktopers!
<oSoMoN> good morning ricotz
<Laney> hi
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hey, looks like one the few cycles where firefox doesn't require a unity patch update
<ricotz> Laney, hey
<ricotz> seb128, hi, is there further action required on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/1803136 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1803136 in vala (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] Update to vala 0.40.17 in bionic" [Low,Confirmed]
<ricotz> like reassigning to release-team?
<ricotz> I am hoping the package won't be stuck in the queue for weeks
<seb128> hey ricotz Laney, how are you?
<seb128> ricotz, try pinging the SRU reviewer of the day? (shifts are listed on the wikipage)
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, la forme, et toi?
<oSoMoN> ricotz, that's very good news, more time for me to focus on backporting thunderbird 68Â to stable releases :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, ca va bien !
<ricotz> seb128, thanks!
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how is u.k today?
<Wimpress> Well, best described as grey. And cold.
<Wimpress> How about you?
<seb128> nice and sunny
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
<didrocks> RAOF: hey, also if you have a minute to look at zsys on eoan (the fix is in -proposed in focal). Currently installing it will prevent you to log in on next reboot, so quite a high one :)
<Laney> hi ricotz seb128 oSoMoN Wimpress
<Laney> sunny and nice here
<didrocks> hey Laney, Wimpress
<Laney> \o didrocks o/
<duflu> Morning ricotz, Wimpress and Laney
<Laney> ahoy duflu!
<clobrano> good morning all 0/
<seb128> hey clobrano, how are you?
<clobrano> hey seb128, I'm good thanks
<seb128> clobrano, sorry I didn't really have time to investigate that deb upgrade issue
<seb128> did you figure it out?
<didrocks> hey clobrano
<clobrano> hey didrocks :)
<clobrano> seb128, kind of, but I was reviewing deb packages to test it locally
<clobrano> basically, the PR to allow User Themes switch install gnome-shell in a yaru-gtk created folder
<clobrano> I think I need to either change something in debian/gnome-shell.install or revert the change, installing gnome-shell again in /usr/share/gnome-shell and symlink it to /usr/share/themes
<seb128> what's the issue? the file seemed to be on disk no?
<seb128> or is update-alternative not liking the destination to be a symlink?
<seb128> Laney, do you know if https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/blob/master/debian/yaru-theme-gnome-shell.postinst#L7 would have an issue with the file being a symlink?
<seb128> Laney, context is https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/blob/master/debian/yaru-theme-gnome-shell.postinst#L7
<seb128> update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/Yaru/gnome-shell.css doesn't exist
<seb128> but the target should be there (it's provided by -gtk which is installed first)
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<Laney> don't think so
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<Laney> how do you reproduce this issue?
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson
<didrocks> I doubt update-alternatives have any issues with the file type as well
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
<Laney> TFW you can't understand your own code
<Laney> who wrote this and what was I thinking?
<seb128> question of the day...when is the meeting? still in 2 hours from now? or is DST going to confuse again? ;-)
<Laney> calendar says 2 hours
<Laney> trust the calendar
<Laney> although this one http://ubuntu-news.org/calendars/fridge says 18:30 WTF
<seb128> :/
<seb128> kenvandine and other USers, if it's in 2 hours it probably means shifted by one hour for you guys this week since you didn't have DST yet
<kenvandine> It does say in 2 hours
<Laney> seb128: dunno if you missed the message but how do you reproduce that yaru problem?
<seb128> kenvandine, that's one hour off compared to your normal local time then right? anyway, as long as you are aware it's all good :)
<seb128> Laney, I didn't try to reproduce yet, I just have the urls I shared earlier. but I think it's using this ppa https://launchpad.net/~communitheme/+archive/ubuntu/ppa and upgrading
<seb128> Laney, let me try in a bionic chroot see if I hit the issue
<Laney> ok cheers
<diddledan> Morning, oSoMoN ð auto defeat ftw!
<oSoMoN> :)
<seb128> Laney, clobrano, I can't trigger the bug with dpkg, but I don't have the previous ppa version to try the update scenario
<seb128> clobrano, Laney, in any case the -theme-gnome-shell should depends on -gtk if it symlinks to content from there
<clobrano> seb128, sorry I missed the replies, reading now
<seb128> that should also hep ensuring the content of -gtk is unpacked first
<seb128> (or is Pre-Depends needed for that?)
<Laney> nah, postinst -> depends
<clobrano> seb128, as far as I understood, https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/blob/master/debian/yaru-theme-gnome-shell.postinst#L7 triggers the error message, but I think the problem is before
<seb128> clobrano, how before?
<clobrano> meson build script installs gnome-shel under `/usr/share/themes/Yaru/gnome-shell`, but the folder `/usr/share/themes/Yaru` is created by yaru-gtk
<clobrano> so if ones install gnome-shell first, or it only wants to install gnome-shell, that folder does not exists
<seb128> right, which is why I said you need a Depends added to -theme-gnome-shell
<clobrano> and if `/usr/share/themes/Yaru/gnome-shell` does not exist, nor its symlink under `/usr/share/gnome-shell` does
<clobrano> right, but this means one cannot install Yaru gnome-shell without the gtk part, is that a problem?
<seb128> well, they can't anyway
<clobrano> why?
<seb128> since you installed the actual shell css in a directory shipped by -gtk
<seb128> and make the gnome-shell binary only ship a symlink
<seb128> if you remove gtk then your shell css is a broken symlink no?
<clobrano> oh yes, sure. That's why the other solution. Install gnome-shell under `/usr/share/gnome-shell` as we did before, and symlink into the gtk path
<seb128> I don't understand enough of how the theme work / what you are doing to comment on that
<clobrano> but that wouldn't work either... since at that point the would be the gtk folder that doesn't exist :(
<seb128> e.g why do you have that new approach/need to symlink in between directories?
<didrocks> I really don't think it's sane to ship the g-s css in the gtk directory
<clobrano> that was to support User Themes gnome-shell extension
<clobrano> didrocks, I see
<seb128> right, which is where it's getting over my theme knowledge
<seb128> like I don't know why technically that's the solution to that problem or if that's the right way to do it
<clobrano> I read some people complaining that `/usr/share/gnome-shell` path is not the place, but I don't really know why
<didrocks> it's clearly the place, you have /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme created upstream in the past
<didrocks> it will fetch them there first
<didrocks> and for themes, then, extensions needs to have a <theme>.css or something like that
<didrocks> in the extension path
<didrocks> (which is the weird part, but meh)
<didrocks> actually, for the extension, it's the mode name
<seb128> marcustomlinson, did you get any success with the libreoffice/focal autopkgtest issue? unsure how you ranked it on your priority list, it's blocking a stack of desktop components in focal-proposed atm, so would be nice to have it looked at in medium-to-high priority if possible
<seb128> (unsure if the context was clear from my ping yesterday)
<didrocks> hence the empty file we ship, like /usr/share/gnome-shell/extensions/ubuntu-dock@ubuntu.com/ubuntu.css to allow the theme to override it
<clobrano> didrocks, what about shipping more than one default? Like the light and the dark variant? Both shall be installed in `/usr/share/gnome-shell`
<clobrano> ?
<didrocks> yeah, under /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme
<didrocks> then, for switching them, this needs the extension though
<marcustomlinson> seb128: will be fixed this week when I upload the new version, tomorrow or Thursday
<seb128> marcustomlinson, excellent, thx
<clobrano> didrocks, I see. I didn't try that first, because according to https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/1483 it seemed that, using /usr/share/gnome-shell, changing session one cannot use Yaru anymore
<clobrano> but it would be a lot easier to install both themes under /usr/share/gnome-shell/ and not using any symlink
<didrocks> just seeing the start of the discussion, I doubt the reporter has a deep understanding that there are 2 themes completely separated (gtk and shell)
<clobrano> installing from source, it actually works with this configuration
<clobrano> but it creates some issue with the debs
<didrocks> yeah, I doubt though that once the assets (like imgs) are different, this will work with the alternative
<didrocks> as you need an alternative on the directory symlink directly
<clobrano> okay, I'll try with the old installation directory
<clobrano> didrocks, an unrelated question, we still need the gtk-3.0 and gtk-3.20 folders?
<didrocks> clobrano: that's more a question for seb128/Laney, I don't think we have apps built with pre-gtk3.20, but better to check with them
<Laney> that's xenial basically
<Laney> so if you have to work with xenial's gtk
<Laney> (or older)
<didrocks> so as we don't support it, I would say fine for cleaning it up
<clobrano> Laney, but isn't yaru supported on >bionic?
<didrocks> (we started pre-bionic, remember? ;))
<clobrano> okay, I can use 3.0 only then, right?
<didrocks> but the release is EOL for quite a long time :)
<Laney> I dunno, any snap reasons?
<clobrano> didrocks, yes sure, I was saying right now we support from bionic
<didrocks> yeah, snaps, good point. It will be interesting to know if any are using an older gtk version
<didrocks> (as we build the theme snap from the same source)
<seb128> didn't jamesh spent weeks working on making the theme work on xenial's gtk for snap reasons?
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<Laney> that'd be what a 3.0 is good for
<kenvandine> seb128: yes
<kenvandine> seb128: is there an issue?
<Laney> just answering a question from Carlo
<seb128> kenvandine, if I understood the discussion correctly, I think clobrano was wondering if they could drop the 3.20 folder/support now
<kenvandine> yes, we need that for snaps on xenial
<clobrano> seb128, exactly. This comes from a complain on yaru flatpak version and I just wanted to have a valid reply for keep/remove the folder
<clobrano> kenvandine, perfect
<seb128> kenvandine, but xenial users are on unity with ambiance so why do they need yaru?
<Laney> current users running a snap with xenial's gtk in it
<seb128> oh, that was it of course
<seb128> thx Laney :)
<kenvandine> yup
<Laney> np
<Laney> lunch, laterz
<seb128> enjoy!
<hellsworth> isn't it meeting time?
<seb128> DST kicked in, it's in one hour
<clobrano> alright, thanks all :)
<seb128> well it did for UK/Europe
<seb128> not US yet
<seb128> always a fun time for calendars/meetings
<hellsworth> oh that's right. stupid daylight savings :)
<hellsworth> ok well good morning folks
<didrocks> good morning hellsworth
<didrocks> the calendar should be up to date though for meeting time, doesn't it translate it correctly?
<hellsworth> yes it did but i didnt' look at the calendar
<hellsworth> i was going off memory
<didrocks> :)
<hellsworth> that'll teach me :)
<seb128> kenvandine, you should have a clicky url for the snapcraft PRs you are mentioning, I'm curious :)
<seb128> kenvandine, also do you need help with the segfault issue?
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary post?
<kenvandine> seb128: oh, i'll add them :)
<jamesh> seb128: just finishing it up.  Thanks for the reminder
<kenvandine> seb128: maybe, marcustomlinson ^^ want to get some help from seb128?
<seb128> jamesh, thx, sorry for being naggy :)
<kenvandine> jamesh: make sure you include any release bugs :)
<marcustomlinson> seb128: let me at it for another day then I'll ping you if I'm jammed, thanks for offering
<kenvandine> seb128: link added to the status report
<seb128> marcustomlinson, np
<seb128> kenvandine, thx
<kenvandine> seb128: the snapcraft PR includes a link to a PR against gtk-common-themes
<kenvandine> I think both look good, but wanted jamesh to look at them
<seb128> right, nice numbers in the description, I like it :-)
<seb128> Wimpress, team meeting?
<seb128> k, I'm going to assume you don't have it yet in your calendar or got delayed and start it
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 29 14:32:51 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), hellsworth, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> o/
<hellsworth> 0/
<marcustomlinson> \o
<Trevinho> o/
<kenvandine> seb128: I just invited Wimpress on the calendar event :)
<seb128> kenvandine, that might be useful :)
<seb128> k, half the team at least seems around let's get started
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop one
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> that looks in shape, unassigned ones are fix commited
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop one
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no unassigned ones
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> still no desktop
<seb128> bug #1848969 is border desktop but community side now so I don't think we need to handle it here
<ubot5> bug 1848969 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "src/date-time.cpp:171:GDateTime* unity::indicator::datetime::DateTime::get() const: assertion failed: (m_dt)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848969
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1845801
<ubot5> bug 1845801 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Eoan) "[nvidia] Automatic login fails and then all subsequent logins fail. Killing gnome-session-binary fixes it, or just not using automatic login." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845801
<seb128> Laney commented on it that he couldn't reproduce
<Laney> it's assigned
<Laney> just not all of the tasks
<seb128> do you know if Alberto noticed it was?
<Laney> yes, as we talked on irc before
<seb128> tseliot, ^ please confirm you saw the emails and just didn't /dev/null filter those :)
<seb128> k
<seb128> so I'm assigning to the other lines
<Laney> I wouldn't usually just assign a bug to someone and expect them to notice that
<seb128> ack
<didrocks> as long as we don't know which component is impactedâ¦
<didrocks> Laney: you can with me, filter power ;)
<seb128> bug #1847551
<ubot5> bug 1847551 in mutter (Ubuntu Eoan) "Mutter 3.34.1 broke Night Light, screen color profiles in Wayland sessions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847551
<seb128> Trevinho, that's part of your pending SRU right?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> assign it
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> seb128: yes
<Trevinho> already in queue
<seb128> bug #1850052
<ubot5> bug 1850052 in zsys (Ubuntu Eoan) "installing zsys breaks desktop login" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850052
<didrocks> waiting in unapproved
<seb128> didrocks, assigning that one to you
<didrocks> doing, even if "fixed" and waiting from the SRU team to act on it (+ Laney to unblock focal, pretty please ;))
<Laney> one thing at a time
<seb128> I assigned the rygel one to me
<seb128> and that's it
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1848766
<ubot5> bug 1848766 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu still pulls in Python2 via the python-gtk2-dev b-d in libappindicator" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848766
<seb128> it's assigned to xubuntu, the other lines seem buggy
<seb128> but I've https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/libappindicator/drop-python-appindicator/+merge/335606 on my review queue which is related from our side of things
<seb128> bug #1849773
<ubot5> bug 1849773 in evince (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/evince:11:strstr:TextSelectionPainter::hasGlyphLessFont:TextSelectionPainter::endPage:TextPage::drawSelection:poppler_page_render_selection" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1849773
<seb128> it's an evince segfault on text selection on some specific documents
<seb128> jibel could find only one private document example
<jibel> it seems related to the font used in the doc
<seb128> I think it's too specific to qualify as a rls bug, we should probably fix it but as normal business
<jibel> +1
<seb128> jibel, if you can add the font info to the bug that might be useful
<tseliot> seb128, I got the bug mail, I remember Laney telling me about it too. I remember systemd complaining about things in the log. I haven't really got time to look into it. I am not sure if NVIDIA is the cause of the problem yet (it could just trigger it)
<seb128> tseliot, k, thx
<Wimpress> o/
<seb128> unless someone objects I will notfixing the evince one
<kenvandine> hey Wimpress!
<Laney> can we also notfix the indicator-datetime thing pls
<Laney> or else we will keep coming back to it
<seb128> hey Wimpress
<seb128> Laney, good point, done
<seb128> bug #1848217	
<ubot5> bug 1848217 in yaru-theme (Ubuntu) "No system-ready sound" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848217
<seb128> that's fix commited, probably not rls material though
<Laney> seems handled so I don't think it particularly matters either way
<seb128> ah, it's in the installer context
<seb128> so yeah, tag is fine, it's fix commited
<seb128> right
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop clean
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> Laney, yours
<seb128> (in the measure we are ready to look at it/should maybe wait for the initial sync churn to settle down)
<Laney> forget it
<Laney> it's ruined for this week at least
<seb128> just libreoffice is obvious but marcus is on it
<Laney> apart from some things like libreoffice which are known separately
<seb128> thx Laney :)
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-29 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> any other topic?
<seb128> seems not, it's a wrap then
<seb128> thanks team!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 29 14:51:55 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-10-29-14.32.moin.txt
<kenvandine> thanks!
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<Trevinho> ta
<Wimpress> seb128 kenvandine Thanks for running things. I'll be here on time next week now I have the calendar entry :-)
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> Wimpress, no worry :)
<kenvandine> Wimpress: let's hope that's the only think willcooke neglected to hand off :)
<clobrano> didrocks, sorry to bother again :), but looking at user themes code, it seems to look for gnome-shell css installed under `/usr/share/themes/<theme>/gnome-shell` folder https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell-extensions/blob/master/extensions/user-theme/extension.js#L42
<didrocks> clobrano: interesting, this has changed as it as looking at the other places before
<didrocks> I based the location on where the mode/theme for G-S was looking before we moving to an internal css in the compiled gressources
<clobrano> didrocks, uhm let me check git history then
<didrocks> so yeah, sounds like then moving the whole theme will be necessary. It means updating the Shell css
<didrocks> clobrano: well, if upstream thinks now we should put them there, no need to dig more
<clobrano> didrocks, yeah I guess
<didrocks> clobrano: upstream disagrees with itself though: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/blob/master/js/ui/main.js#L298
<clobrano> so both gtk and gnome-shell goes into the same dir
<didrocks> look here, in G-S, they are looking at the place we are using
<didrocks> so I guess it's something for you to discuss with Trevinho, but the extension made by usptream and the G-S code should align at least
<clobrano> eh, a bit messy indeed
<didrocks> not that crazyâ¦ I was sure when I did the extension mode 2.5 years ago I didn't invent it from nothing ;)
<clobrano> I'm sure you didn't :D
<Trevinho> clobrano: probably upstream wants to keep both, like if the shell theme is the same of gtk then it goes with it otherwise it can use a local time
<Trevinho> question of prioritizing one or the other
<Trevinho> clobrano: I'd suggest you to ask in #gnome-shell to fmueller when he's around
<Trevinho> or open an issue so we can discuss there the proper strategy
<clobrano> Trevinho, yes, this could make sense
<clobrano> Trevinho, didrocks, reply from #gnome-shell was that `/usr/share/gnome-shell/theme` is for session default and the other for 3rd party theme. Reconsidering the problem, we have Yaru(light) as default and Yaru-dark as selectable, so I can simply install the first under gnome-shell and the latter under themes
<clobrano> as I was actually doing at the beginning
<clobrano> to have yaru light available under gnome-session, the only option is the symlink
<didrocks> yeah, it sounds weird to me, but ack
<didrocks> Laney: I think you typoed the hint on https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/hints-ubuntu/revision/4024: ss390x
<Laney> k
<Laney> merge proposals are accepted for reference for the future ;-)
<didrocks> thx ;)
<kenvandine> hellsworth: marcustomlinson found the crasher.  It's cairo 1.17.  Try downgrading it to 1.16
<hellsworth> hmmmm
<hellsworth> then it must be different from the librsvg issue of updating the build snap to librsvg-2.46
<hellsworth> while the librsvg commit does change cairo versions, it updates librsvg to require 1.16.0 instead of cairo 1.15.12
<hellsworth> still.. i'm build ing gnome-3-34-1804-sdk with cairo branch 1.16, rebuilt the platform snap, and rebuilt evince to test
<kenvandine> hellsworth: i cherry-picked the fix into gnome-3-34-1804-sdk and pushed it to get a build in LP
<hellsworth> oh nice!
<hellsworth> can you launch a build? looks like the last lp build of the build snap was a week ago
<kenvandine> waiting for the git mirror to sync
<hellsworth> is there a way to tell the platform snap to use the gnome-3-34-1804-sdk that is installed locally rather than pulling from the snapstore?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: doubtful, you could ask on #snapcraft
<hellsworth> ah yes good idea
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: it's not that much work to just snapcraft push your local snap to edge
<marcustomlinson> but I guess you're using edge at the moment as your release I guess
<hellsworth> oh right i can do that from my lp build, i think
<marcustomlinson> lots of guessing going on :P
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: doesn't your LP build push to edge already?
<marcustomlinson> oh you mean you just need to trigger one
<marcustomlinson> yeah that was why I suggested you have a personal one, for times like this where you want to bypass all the import waiting
<hellsworth> i tend to just build locally because lp is confusing
<hellsworth> yes you're right
<hellsworth> and i think i have one
<hellsworth> need to find it
<marcustomlinson> that's fine, you can do: "snapcraft push <path to local snap>.snap --release edge"
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: ^
<hellsworth> wat! i didn't know that
<marcustomlinson> :)
<hellsworth> i thought the only way to get to the store was to go through lp
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: for a snap to be seeded it needs to, but otherwise no. If I'm remembering correctly kenvandine?
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> there is a policy for seeded snaps
<kenvandine> we also utilize LP for automated builds
<hellsworth> well since my local build is still going, i just launched a new LP build on ~hellsworth/gnome-3-34-1804-sdk
<hellsworth> and that should publish to the store
<hellsworth> but my build will be finished first. oh well. lp can publish it for me.
<kenvandine> hellsworth: is your snap built from the git mirror?
<kenvandine> if so that mirror isn't updating
<hellsworth> well my lp build builds from ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-sdk/+git/gnome-sdk
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: what you've done with gnome-3-34-1804, do with gnome-3-34-1804-sdk
<hellsworth> and doesn't that just point to the git repo
<marcustomlinson> Source: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-sdk.git gnome-3-34-1804-sdk
<hellsworth> oh yeah marcustomlinson your'e right
<hellsworth> isn't gnome-3-34-1804-sdk a seeded snap?
<hellsworth> so i should go through lp for this snap to get in the store?
<hellsworth> well i'll push it anyways. you wouldn't have told me to if i shouldnt' :)
<hellsworth> sometimes i overanalyze things...
<kenvandine> nope
<hellsworth> out of curiosity, where is the list of seeded snaps?
<hellsworth> ok updated build snap in edge. rebuilding the platform snap now.
<Trevinho> clobrano: nice, I read on #g-s as well, so.. Yeah somewhat similar to what I was guessing, but nice that we've a definition now
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: if you have time, you think you could give this suggestion a try today? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cairo/cairo/issues/382#note_278108
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: got a reply on that bug that looks promising ^
<kenvandine> yeah, a build of gnome-3-34-1804-sdk with cairo 1.17 plus that patch shouldn't be too hard
<kenvandine> or even just update the cairo part to use the git branch in that PR
<hellsworth> well but how do we do that in the build snap? can i have the cairo portion in the build snap checkout a merge request?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/psychon/cairo/tree/invalid-free-crash
<hellsworth> yeah ok i can use this persons branch
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: all 5 of my test apps are working now, I've promoted 3-32 build and platform snaps to stable
<marcustomlinson> you can rebuild drawing and let that guy know the good news on forum.snapcraft.io :)
<hellsworth> rebuilting gnome-3-34-1804-sdk with the invalid-free-crash branch of ciaro now
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: thanks!
<hellsworth> i also had already built the build snap with cairo branch 1.16, pushed it to edge, rebuilt the gnome-3-34-1804 platform snap, pushed it to edge, moved it to stable and am rebuilding evince
<hellsworth> evince still crashes for me when i have the build snap using cairo source-branch: 1.16. evince started ok, i went to open a pdf and when i selected a pdf and clicked open, i got a segfault
<hellsworth> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/43yg8JPWHT/
<hellsworth> my build of the buildsnap with the invalid-free-crash branch is still going
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: you connected to the right platform snap?
<marcustomlinson> Youâll need to connect to a platform snap that is also built from the new build snap
<hellsworth> yep and i did that
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: also, the 1.16 branch may be broken as itâs WIP, I meant use the 1.16.0 tag
<hellsworth> ah ok
<marcustomlinson> The branch I believe has some 1.16.1 work in it
<hellsworth> maybe that's the problem then.
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: but good to know that 1.16.1 is broken too. Could you leave a comment on that bug about that
<hellsworth> i need to run in a little bit to pick up my daughter from daycare (closing early today because of snow) but i should at least be able to launch a build of the platform snap with the invalid-free-crash build snap first
<marcustomlinson> Thanks hellsworth, appreciate it!
<hellsworth> my pleasure :)
<hellsworth> for some reason, my laptop can't build any snaps: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/yRdDRvWJw3/
<hellsworth> does anyone know how to fix this?
<hellsworth> there is no /var/lib/dpkg/lock*
<hellsworth> i can do other things like apt update (which wouldn't work if there was already a lock in place)
<hellsworth> and my snapcraft version is the stable one (not one of my local builds)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: that error is coming from the multipass vm not your host
<hellsworth> hmm ok maybe i'll reinstall multipass
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: you could try âmultipass delete snapcraft-evinceâ
<marcustomlinson> Then âmultipass purgeâ
<hellsworth> ok i will try that
<hellsworth> yep that worked!
<hellsworth> thanks marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> np, yeah those VMs can sometimes get into a funky state
<hellsworth> ok i need to run and finish up the invalid-free-crash testing later tonight
<kenvandine> later
<ricotz> kenvandine, hi, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+snap/gnome-calculator-master -- is this actually using vala 0.40.8 to build gnome-calculator from latest git master? :(
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-30
<hellsworth> ricotz, yep it looks like gnome-calculator-master builds with vala 0.40.8 since that's what the valac deb is in 18.04
<hellsworth> we're working some kinks out with the extensions newer than gnome-3-28. Once gnome-3-34 extension is ready to be widely used, gnome-calculator will build with 0.46
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: kenvandine , i built the build snap with the invalid-free-crash branch (to test https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cairo/cairo/issues/382#note_278108), put it in edge, rebuilt the platform snap, put it in stable, and rebuilt evince. it still segfaults when it opens a pdf.
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: kenvandine the build snap in edge and platform snap in stable were built with the invalid-free-crash. i'm going to leave these in the store and it would be interesting if one of you could test evince or drawing or something with them to see if you still see a segfault
<hellsworth> afterwards, we can build the build snap with cairo source-tag: 1.16.0, and platform snap, and put those in the store
<hellsworth> i didn't comment on https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cairo/cairo/issues/382#note_278108 because i'm having an issue registering an account on gitlab.freedesktop.org
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: thanks, Iâll give it a try and leave a comment on the bug when I wake up in a couple hours :P
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN (and marcustomlinson and didrocks?)
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, hey marcustomlinson
<didrocks> good morning duflu, oSoMoN, marcustomlinson!
<didrocks> forgot to press "enter" on my good morning ;)
<RikMills> morning
<RikMills> ah, wrong channel but still valid :P
<didrocks> good morning RikMills
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN duflu didrocks
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today? you are online earlier than usual?
<duflu> Hi seb128, how goes?
<seb128> hey duflu, good! and you?
<seb128> I see you are quite busy with bug triage recently
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I'm alright thanks, was eager to test something :) Hw you?
<duflu> seb128, OK... Yeah, I'm trying to estimate if it's a busy release or not
<seb128> seems low traffice/no much high profile bugs atm from what I saw
<seb128> do you have the same impression?
<duflu> seb128, yes for sure about the lack of showstoppers
<duflu> Bugs like the HDMI audio switching are among the busiest
<duflu> Hmm, there's a simple way to check and I haven't yet
<seb128> that one is annoying, I wonder if we should just put back the code to ignore HDMI in the dynamic switcher
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<duflu> seb128, I was considering reverting the commit that upstream say caused it, but currently am more likely to wait for them to decide
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> duflu, right
<duflu> seb128, Ha! Yes my guesses were right - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/eoan/+bugs?orderby=-heat&start=0
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va !
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, lut, en forme?
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien !
<didrocks> sil2100: RAOF: hey! Just confirmed the 2 use cases are fixed for bug #1850052 (new and previous install) with zsys in -proposed. As previous version prevents people from log in, what do you think about bypassing the retention period?
<ubot5> bug 1850052 in zsys (Ubuntu Eoan) "installing zsys breaks desktop login" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850052
<Laney> sup
<RAOF> didrocks: 20:00 here, so I'll let sil2100 take that!
<didrocks> RAOF: no worry, have a good evening :)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> RAOF: and thanks for acking it in -propsoed
<RAOF> I'm always happy to deal with SRU pings!
<didrocks> :)
<sil2100> RAOF: o/
<sil2100> didrocks: hey, oh! Ok, let me take a look
<didrocks> thx ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks a bunch! :)
<sil2100> didrocks: yw!
<duflu> And I killed gitlab
<duflu> or something did
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: now that you're here ;) could I please ask you to have a look at libreoffice in the disco queue?
<sil2100> marcustomlinson: hey! Will try to get to that, but since today is not my SRU shift I might not be able to find enough cycles
<jibel> Laney, how did you update the translations of ubiquity to add new strings?
<Laney> I forgot already
<Laney> debconf-updatepo was it?
<jibel> it does something, not sure it's the right thing
<didrocks> I guess that was it, indeed
<Wimpress> Monring desktoppers o/
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you today?
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<tseliot> Laney, seb128 can we have somebody with systemd knowledge have a look at LP: #1845801, please? (see my comment in the bug report)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1845801 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Eoan) "[nvidia] Automatic login fails and then all subsequent logins fail. Killing gnome-session-binary fixes it, or just not using automatic login." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845801
<Laney> tseliot: ah, wtf, good find
<seb128> tseliot, thx
<tseliot> yw
<Laney> rbalint: don't suppose you have any idea about the above?
<Laney> I don't know what paused for a drm device node means
<rbalint> Laney, i took a look but it seems nvidia driver related
<Laney> :/
 * Laney wibbles
<rbalint> Laney, not that i don't have other problems with my nvidia card, but they are not related :-)
<Laney> right
<Laney> not entirely sure how best to move forward
<rbalint> Laney, suggested trying systemd 243 from a ppa i already have, but to triage i need to assemble a system from the nvidia card - or fix gpu passthrough which freezes my systemd atm (bug to be filed)
<Laney> :O
<Laney> xnox had that working at the release sprint
<Laney> thanks for the suggestion there
<rbalint> Laney, what worked? gpu passthrough?
<Laney> yeah
<rbalint> Laney, in my case it is external tb3 gpu case on bionic host and disco guest
<rbalint> Laney, i imagine xnox had it working on eoan host
<Laney> indeed
<rbalint> Laney, and maybe without tb2
<rbalint> tb3
<Laney> it was prime iirc
<rbalint> Laney, that's also cool, but a different way
<Laney> nod
<Wimpress> seb128 didrocks Head down trying to ctach up on stuff today. Sorry for not replying ealier.
<didrocks> nw!
<seb128> Wimpress, no worry, busy is good :)
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: i see the same weirdness in the headerbar when using cairo 1.17 with that crash fix
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: in drawing
<kenvandine> definately better in 1.16
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: alright, so that's definitely a separate issue then
<kenvandine> yeah
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<kenvandine> that PR does fix the crash though
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: i also don't see the window controls
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: perhaps we call off upgrading to 1.17 until possibly the next sdk pair
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: i suspect nobody has updated to that yet :)
<kenvandine> this bug seems to effect everything!
<kenvandine> the crasher that is... and the PR with the fix has been sitting for 8 months
<marcustomlinson> yeah that's why I thought that guy could use the help with some confirmation from us
<kenvandine> yup
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: it's all bryce's fault ;)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> in this case it is :)
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: and looking at that PR, I bet this is the cause for those weird issues in the headerbar
<kenvandine> related to clipping boxes
<kenvandine> and what i saw on the headerbar looks like boxes that overrun a bit
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: ah so probably not unrelated, I'd not looked at the PR admittedly
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: yeah, it's a code path that wasn't being handled before
<kenvandine> so he fixed that
<kenvandine> but something's not right
<marcustomlinson> well I brought it up, we'll see if he has something to say about it
<kenvandine> clobrano: hey, i'm seeing a theme issue in the drawing snap.  Specifically the headerbar when using yaru.  yaru-dark and yaru-light are both fine
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: thanks
<kenvandine> clobrano: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/7MHfIVC8/drawing_theme_issue.png
<kenvandine> clobrano: the drawing snap is being built with the latest gtk and other bits
<kenvandine> clobrano: if you look really close at that screenshot there is a subtle gear in the background of the headerbar towards the right hand side
<Laney> that bryce bug is still there?????
<Laney> is something actually wanting 1.17?
<Laney> the archive still doesn't have it
<marcustomlinson> Laney: nobody's requesting it no, we were just giving it a go in the gnome platform snap
<Laney> nod
<Laney> I think that's why we never bothered upgrading
<jibel> didrocks, when you have some time later this week https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity-1/+merge/374920
<jibel> it's the new design for advanced features
<didrocks> jibel: thx! I'll have a look (probably tomorrow)
<hellsworth> morning folks
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: what is the state of the build and platform snaps in the store?
<hellsworth> were they built with the invalid-free-crash or 1.16?
<hellsworth> oh i can go look up the commits. nvm
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: for 3-32?
<hellsworth> oh i meant for 3-34
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: I'm not sure the state of that
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: it looks like gnome-3-34-1804-sdk in edge is built with cairo source-tag: 1.16.0 (based on the commit)
<hellsworth> can't tell on the platform snap though
<hellsworth> i think the evince crash is different from the drawing/epiphany crash
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: is it worth it for me to build/push the invalid-free-crash to the store to test epiphany? it looks like you and kenvandine have already come to the same conclusion..
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: no don't bother, we've investigated enough there
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> ok that's what i thought
<hellsworth> good morning oSoMoN !
<marcustomlinson> we're gonna hold off upgrading to 1.17 until possibly the next round of sdk snaps
<hellsworth> yes that sounds like a solid plan
<hellsworth> i'll assume that both gnome-3-34-1804-sdk and gnome-3-34-1804 in the store are built with 1.16, and retry evince in case it's related with cairo. honestly, evince could be crashing due to any of the build snap updates.
<Laney> forget 1.17 imho
<seb128> Laney, do you know offhand of an easy wait to make gsd displays g_debug entries? hacking the systemd unit to add --debug?
<seb128> or is there an easier way?
<Laney> if it were me I'd do
<Laney> systemctl --user edit gsd-whatever.service
<Laney> [Service]
<Laney> Envirionment=G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all
<Laney> (with correct spelling)
<Laney> (--runtime if you don't want it to persist)
<Laney> then restart the unit
<seb128> Laney, thx, I didn't know about systemctl edit, handy :)
<Laney> yeah, no need to hack units in /usr most of the time
<Laney> if you do systemctl --user edit --full whatever.unit then you get the whole thing to edit too
<seb128> right, I'm reading about it now, it surprised first because I was expecting edit to give a copy you can edit :)
<Laney> :>
<Laney> it's like an overlay
<Laney> systemd calls them drop-ins
 * Laney frowns
<Laney> I had an old todo to fix up a merge request
<Laney> and now I can't remember what I wanted to fix :(
<marcustomlinson> fix it all!
<didrocks> unless you didn't even note what MP to fixâ¦ ;)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> nah I have the commits I wrote back then
<Laney> but now they look finished to me ...
<jdstrand> kenvandine: if you recall I was asking about theming issue with firefox on wayland after eoan upgrade. it wasn't wayland specific. firefox forgot Custom/Title Bar for that profile. so feel free to forget this whole conversation :)
<kenvandine> jdstrand: ok :)
<hellsworth> kenvandine: glimpse snap support was just merged! so should i put this in the store under my name and then we move it to being from ubuntu-desktop?
<kenvandine> hellsworth: sure
<kenvandine> hellsworth: even better would be if upstream published it
<hellsworth> hmm ok then i'll see about coaching them on that
<kenvandine> popey could probably help
<kenvandine> hellsworth: since the yaml is upstream they could use build.snapcraft.io
 * hellsworth looks for steps on the docs about build.snapcraft.io
<popey> Is it on GitHub?
<popey> Glimpse that is
<hellsworth> yes
<hellsworth> https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/blob/dev-g210/snap/snapcraft.yaml
<popey> Neat
<popey> Someone from the upstream team should sign up for a store account and then goto build to hook it all up
<popey> diddledan: ^
<hellsworth> upstream doesn't want to maintain the snap
<hellsworth> they are happy to carry the snap/snapcraft.yaml though
<kenvandine> ok, then probably snapcrafters
<kenvandine> popey ^^ right?
<hellsworth> i'm checking to see if the contributor of the snap packaging would be willing to submit it to the store
<hellsworth> if not then we can go with snapcrafters. what is the proces for that?
<hellsworth> also if this convo should be moed to #snap-advocacy, we can do that..
<diddledan> I imagine the glimpse yaml is largely the same as gimp's which I maintain
<hellsworth> yep
<hellsworth> minor differences
<popey> hellsworth: yes, we can put it under snapcrafters (like gimp is)
<hellsworth> popey: should we encourage the contributor to submit it to snapcrafters?
<popey> Well, it's a bit tricky now the yaml is in the upstream project
<popey> can we discuss this in the desktop call on monday maybe?
<hellsworth> yeah i thought the upstream project was willing to support the snap packaging going forward
<hellsworth> there's a desktop call on monday?
<popey> We might be able to do it with a travis.yml
<popey> there was between snap advocacy and will / ken.
<popey> maybe it needs to change now the structure has changed a bit
<popey> there's another couple of snaps which don't have out-of-tree snapcraft.yamls which I need to work on, may be able to re-use that work for glimpse
<hellsworth> sure. what would the result of that work be? moving the glimpse upstream snap/ to snapcrafters?
<popey> no, a travis.yaml in a repo in snapcrafters which periodically grabs the glimpse repo and then runs snapcraft on it
<popey> effectively
<popey> the downside is if we need to fix the snapcraft.yaml we have to wait for upstream to land those fixes
<popey> whereas traditional out of tree snapcraft yamls we can ninja (and often do) in snapcrafters repo
<popey> but i reckon we can cope
<popey> we can from within travis, use the snapcraft remote-build option to fire it over to launchpad to build
<popey> travis would just be used to manage the job
<hellsworth> popey: if we were to move the glimpse snap packaging info over to snapcrafters (and remove it from upstream source), would a new snap be automatically built on upstream master commit?
<popey> hm, we can make that happen
<hellsworth> it sounds like if we leave the snap packaging in upstream glimpse, and add a travis.yaml to snapcrafters, then that just periodically builds/pushes a new snap to the store - not based on upstream commit, but rather more of a cron job
<hellsworth> which is better?
<hellsworth> the glimpse team is pretty fine with whatever we think is best
<popey> depends who'd use the edge channel
<popey> likely not many people
<popey> most people tend to only care about stable releases
<popey> its most useful to just build whenever upstream do a release
<popey> which can be tested in edge, and then migrated to beta/stable as appropriate
<hellsworth> ok glimpse upstream does want to keep snap in the glimpse project, review snapcraft.yaml prs, and maybe maintain the snap in the future. that is nice :)
<hellsworth> popey: ^
<popey> nice one
<hellsworth> but they like the idea of snapcrafters having a yaml that will periodically build the snap and push it to the edge channel in teh store
<popey> ok, so i/we need to make a simple travis.yml to do the builds
<hellsworth> popey: is there anything i can do with helping out with that?
<popey> if you have some time, that'd be awesome
<popey> I'll ping you a mail with the details, okay?
<hellsworth> i have never worked with travis.yaml before so yeah any details you can give me would help
<hellsworth> sounds good. thanks so much :)
<hellsworth> way to advocate
<hellsworth> ok i'm off for the dentist.. I'll be back (in my best terminator voice)
<popey> oooh I have a better idea
<popey> glad i typed this mail up, now I can throw it away and give you a better idea :D
<sarnold> pity your rubber ducky required a whole email :)
<popey> ya
<popey> hellsworth: you have mail
<popey> </aol>
<diddledan> I maintain and build a synchronised kernel from the Microsoft WSL2 repo on github which is a complete mirror that I've augmented by adding my own .github/workflows/* action definitions to. maybe that would be useful for making an in-tree snapcraft.yaml work?
<diddledan> it resynchronises every hour with upstream changes which then get rebuilt if a new tag appears - the build service would take over the equivalent of the build step, but the sync step would be useful
<diddledan> here's the workflow/action: https://github.com/diddlesnaps/WSL2-Linux-Kernel/blob/master/.github/workflows/sync-upstream.yml
<hellsworth> thanks popey!
<hellsworth> diddledan: no idea if yoru workflow could help but it's good to know aobut in case so thanks for the link :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-31
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, I'm here if you want to start early
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: 5 minutes
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128 didrocks duflu oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> We lost seb a while back
<seb128> hey again desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<marcustomlinson> hey (again) seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good thanks, yourself?
<seb128> oh and happy-friday-like for those have tomorrow off
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good!
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, happy Friday to you too :)
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<seb128> duflu, getting ready for your holidays?
<seb128> duflu, thx for testing that kernel/flickfree again
<duflu> seb128, no worries, I am pleased to have got though most of my tagged emails
<seb128> so from the log fbcon is taking over the buffer some seonds later, does it mean you see a shitfed flicker now?.
<duflu> seb128, not noticeably. The same image is on screen so it's hard to judge any shift in time
<seb128> but you still see it flicker?
<duflu> seb128, yes. Actually the switching message is at the same time still, with either kernel
<seb128> :(
<seb128> I will try to ask Hans again to see if he has more ideas
<seb128> I hope they built the kernel correctly and just didn't screw up the enabling of the option
<duflu> seb128, I'm not sure it's even possible to fix. I would not imagine you can switch framebuffers without one mode set. And for many monitors that incurs a brief blackout
<duflu> Sure some laptops won't notice it
<duflu> I think both macOS and Windows get around that by dimming to black screens during the transitions?
<seb128> so the flicker in your case is on an external monitor?
<duflu> seb128, yes and most laptops I tried too
<duflu> Laptops are faster than my Dell monitor though
<seb128> in theory there is no need to switch framebuffers though?
<seb128> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/10432641/
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> 'This commit adds a new FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE_DEFERRED_TAKEOVER config option,
<seb128> which when enabled defers fbcon taking over the console from the dummy
<seb128> console until the first text is displayed on the console. Together with the
<seb128> "quiet" kernel commandline option, this allows fbcon to still be used
<seb128> together with a smooth graphical bootup, having it take over the console as
<seb128> soon as e.g. an error message is logged.
<seb128> '
<seb128> ups, sorry for the lines wrapping
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<seb128> duflu, I wonder if the issue is that we get some text printed on the console for some reason?
<oSoMoN> seb128, fatiguÃ©, mais comme câest jeudredi Ã§a va :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, une journÃ©e Ã  tenir et du 'repos' :)
<duflu> seb128, that's for text consoles. I'm talking about just the raw graphical framebuffer it's running on, which is efifb and then i915drmfb/inteldrmfb.
<duflu> Consoles are a layer on top
<duflu> Or they should be
<seb128> I see
<duflu> seb128, I now remember what continuous DRM modesetting looks like. It's just a bit slow but doesn't blank out the monitor signal like this bug does. So actually it sounds like the issue is that the mode attributes are changing, not just being set redundantly
<seb128> I will test on my new xps, I just need to change the grub config to hide the menu
<seb128> since it's showing by default when you have multiple OS...
<duflu> I guess if I had a serial console to the kernel I would be able to tell when it happens
<duflu> Bah, not this week
<seb128> right, no hurry don't worry
<seb128> oh, Laney had dropped from IRC!
<seb128> Laney, good morning :)
<Laney> hellooOOOOOOOoooOOo ð¦ð¦ð¦ð¦ ðððððð ðððððððððððððððð
<Laney> yeah the vps provider restarted all the servers for a security update
<Laney> what is up
<duflu> ð»ð»ð»
<seb128> hallooooweeeennn :)
<duflu> Morning Laney
<seb128> and we had frost this night!
<duflu> We had hail last night and this morning. Almost similar :)
<seb128> :)
<seb128> (also brb, relocating)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks
<Laney> no frost for us yet, won't be long though
<Laney> then i'll have to go dig up the dahlias
<Laney> I always forget to sync my joined channels and window layout on irssi
<Laney> now it's all messed up
<duflu> ð§ð»ð¦ððð§
<duflu> For future reference
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<duflu> â°ï¸
<oSoMoN> spooky morning Laney
<Laney> \o oSoMoN
<RikMills> Laney: do dahlias need digging up? oops. mine just get left and regrow the next year
<Laney> it's probably one of those things like everything in gardening
<Laney> bet I could mulch them instead
<RikMills> right
<Laney> next year I want them in a different place anyway
<Laney> next to the allotment gate :>
<oSoMoN> ricotz, have you seen bug #1850529 ?
<ubot5> bug 1850529 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Crash after update to 71.0~b5+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850529
<oSoMoN> IÂ commented on the bug but IÂ can't dig further right now, I'll get back to it later if you don't beat me to it
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
<marcustomlinson> hey Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you today?
<Wimpress> All good today. Just picked the girls up from the station ð
<Wimpress> How is everyone else.
<seb128> doing well, it's still cold&sunny here, but that's going to change for mild/rainy/windy in the next days :-(
<seb128> oh, also it's sort of friday here with tomorrow off in France (& other european countries)
<oSoMoN> yay
<Wimpress> Got anything planned for tomorrow?
<seb128> We are going to the north of France/at my gf's place for the w.e
<seb128> driving tonight (it's a bit less than 3 hours so easy enough)
<duflu> Morning Wimpress, and good night
<Wimpress> seb128: Enjoy your road trip :-)
<seb128> thx :)
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney, glib2.0 (synced from Debian) is stuck in focal-proposed with a few autopkgtest regressions. Not sure who is responsible for handling that. Is it a desktop team thing?
<Laney> Yes, it'll get handled
<Laney> If you're asking if you can look, the answer is sure
<GunnarHj> Laney: That's not what I asked. :) My interest in it that the migrating is a prerequisite for a combined glib2.0 and ibus SRU.
<Laney> That's why I said "if"
<Laney> It will be looked at at some point soon-ish.
<GunnarHj> Ok.
<Laney> Do note there is a glib2.0 in the eoan queue too
<GunnarHj> Laney: Didn't know that. Looks like I will need to modify https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/glib2.0 then.
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, I don't think the SRU team mandates the current serie version to be out of proposed ot accept a SRU
<Laney> Yep, looks like it
<GunnarHj> seb128: The plan is to wait until it has migrated. Also talking with the -security folks.
<seb128> k
<Laney> Maybe consider simply backporting that whole upload
<jibel> has anyone try the first image of focal?
<jibel> it completely hangs when the live session starts for me
<Laney> it's https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/896
<gitbot> GNOME issue 896 in mutter "Hang when interacting with desktop icons on x11 after 71c3f4af" [1. Bug, 1. Regression, 5. Backend: X11, Opened]
<jibel> thanks
<GunnarHj> Laney: Were you talking about backporting glib2.0 from focal? If so, that would work, of course.
<Laney> GunnarHj: Yeah, that
<Laney> You can upload a re-backport over the top of my SRU if you want
<GunnarHj> Laney: But how on earth would the verification of it be accomplished?
<Laney> Upstream parts covered under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/GNOME, like any update
<Laney> Test fixes verify themselves when the thing builds
<GunnarHj> Laney: Hmm.. Does it mean that also the more focused SRUs to d/b/x can be done without a test case?
<Laney> Only for things which come from the stable branches directly (not cherry picks)
<Laney> Which makes sense, because that combination hasn't been verified by upstream
<GunnarHj> Laney: I see. Sure, I can happily propose an override of your SRU. :) (But wouldn't it be smoother if you dropped it from the queue instead?)
<Laney> GunnarHj: You can ask #ubuntu-release to do that once you've uploaded
<GunnarHj> Laney: K. (I'll need sponsoring for this, btw. But I'll update the PPA to start with.)
<Laney> K
<xnox> Laney:  rbalint:  i had to boot with "intel_iommu=on" kernel option, and then in virt-manager i was able to attach nvidia pci host device to guest. But that kernel option makes nvme drive generate a tonne of errors, and eventually lock system up.
<xnox> but it did work long enough to test installer etc, without like compiling boost in the background.
<rbalint> xnox, yes i added intel_iommu=on, too, but did not notice the nvme errors just the eventual system lockup after i started the vm
<GunnarHj> Laney: glib backport uploaded to PPA. Any chance you can sponsor it? (And the d/b/x updates too - I will fix the bug description to be SRUable.)
<GunnarHj> Laney: https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/ubuntu/glib2.0
<hellsworth> good morning everyone!
<hellsworth> happy halloween :)
<marcustomlinson> morning HELLsworth
<hellsworth> \m/
<didrocks> hey hellsworth!
<hellsworth> hiya!
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> good morning indeed
<Laney> GunnarHj: What about your plan with the security team?
<Laney> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> what's up Laney
<GunnarHj> Laney: We have agreed that they upload proposed ibus versions in their PPA. That way we can use those when verifying the glib2.0 SRUs.
<Laney> 'k
<Laney> GunnarHj: can you subscribe ubuntu-sponsors please? Might not get to it immediately
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok.
<GunnarHj> Laney: In the meantime, can we ask someone to drop your glib2.0 upload from the eoan queue, so it's not built in -proposed?
<diddledan> I package gnome-twitch into a snap and have noticed that the button on the left of the window decorations for "menu" to access the app's settings window is not visible on ubuntu but is on ubuntu-mate. The same behaviour is occuring in the archive .deb packaged version, too, so it appears to be specific to ubuntu. I've tried switching to adwaita theme and that does **not** fix it
<diddledan> I'm wondering if there's something to do with the global menu mechanism that's causing the button to disappear?
<diddledan> gnome-twitch uses client-side decorations, to achieve the button in the menubar
<diddledan> titlebar**
<ahayzen> diddledan, sounds like the application menu, that on older GNOME releases is at the top by the activities button. But now has been deprecated, so moved back into the app.  It is probably detecting there is no application menu on other DEs and then using the fallback which is the left of the title bar.
<diddledan> sounds about right
<diddledan> is the incorrect detection an ubuntu bug or upstream in gnome-twitch, do you think?
<diddledan> it's occuring in both the repository version of gnome-twtitch and the one that I compile from upstream.
<diddledan> (as a snap)
<ahayzen> diddledan, is this on Ubuntu 18.04 or 19.10, as IIRC 18.04 still had the app menu, but 19.10 doesn't ... and idk maybe a bug in gtk ?  This was the initiative to remove the app menu https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/Initiatives/issues/4
<gitbot> GNOME issue 4 in Initiatives "App menu retirement" [9. Initiatives: App Menu Retirement, Opened]
<diddledan> 19.10 here
<diddledan> someone else is reporting it on 18.04.3: https://github.com/vinszent/gnome-twitch/issues/389
<gitbot> vinszent issue 389 in gnome-twitch "Login" [Open]
<diddledan> and the snap is built against core18 but that just introduces confusion because the DE is on my system 19.10 running the snap against core18 libraries
<diddledan> looks like it calls `gtk_application_set_app_menu`
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: kenvandine i can't reproduce the evince segfault with the gnome-3-34-1804-sdk and gnome-3-34-1804 that are in the store. so evince running with the gnome-3-34 extension seems to work just fine.
<hellsworth> also kenvandine, popey : glimpse has been pushed to the store and is awaiting review :)
<kenvandine> hellsworth: woot
<hellsworth> will https://snapcraft.io/glimpse-editor have a proper page once the package has been accepted?
<hellsworth> ie. not 404
<diddledan> hellsworth: not sure if this is helpful for glimpse, but I've just this second pushed an updated recipe for gimp to bump to 2.10.14: https://github.com/snapcrafters/gimp/pull/81/files
<gitbot> snapcrafters issue (Pull request) 81 in gimp "Gimp 2.10.14" [Open]
<hellsworth> diddledan: thanks but glimpse is sticking to tracking gimp 2.10.12, until the gtk 3 version comes out. then they'll "hard fork" and start to really diverge with their own changes.
<diddledan> ok, cool :-)
<popey> hellsworth: i thought you were gonna use glimpse, not glimpse-editor?
<marcustomlinson> popey: hey, do you know who to poke about squashed screenshots on snapcraft.io?
<marcustomlinson> have you noticed?
<popey> uh, luke
<marcustomlinson> cool, I'll ping him tomorrow
<hellsworth> popey: i was going to use glimpse but there is another package in debian and ubuntu called glimpse : https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/glimpse
<hellsworth> this glimpse package is not in the snap store but maybe it will be snapp'd someday, and they should have the glimpse name
<hellsworth> i suppose that is why the github project of the thing i'm trying to snap is https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/
<hellsworth> so we decided to reserve glimpse-editor in the snapstore and change the name to glimpse
<popey> ok
<hellsworth> does someone on the store team go through the manual review requests every so often or should i go make a post on the snapstore forum
<popey> they do, but you can always nudge someone in #snapstore
<popey> on canonical irc
<hellsworth> ok i'll do that then
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-01
<diddledan> popey: secret hidey holes, eh?!
<diddledan> now I know where you're all badmouthing me ;-p
<pieq> duflu, hi!
<pieq> duflu, sorry I was quite busy today, just saw your comment on LP #1850766
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1850766 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth headset selected as default sound output, yet sound outputs to laptop speakers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850766
<pieq> duflu, do you know what would be a good step-by-step to know if the issue comes from PA or not?
<pieq> duflu, maybe using pactl to extract some info before/after pairing a bluetooth headset...
<duflu> pieq, sorry I don't know enough to be sure if it is bluez/pulseaudio/gnome-control-center. I guess if you can replicate a bug using pactl and bluetoothctl then it's not gnome-control-center
<pieq> duflu, hm... true, but then I don't know how to replicate this with only pactl and bluetoothctl
<pieq> I'll try
<duflu> pieq, certainly bluetooth audio is a feature of PulseAudio, not BlueZ. So the next question is which one owns profile selection?
<duflu> Oh that bug is not profile selection
<pieq> duflu, I would assume it's PA
<duflu> It's device selection
<pieq> cause it's PA that selects a wired headphone when you plug it in
<pieq> (I think...?)
<duflu> Don't know
<duflu> pieq, oh yes I do. Switch on connect is pulseaudio
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers (those who are not on holiday)
<duflu> morning marcustomlinson
<Laney> yo de yo
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney Wimpress
 * Laney nods marcustomlinson Wimpress 
<Laney> happy britain has exploded day
<duflu> Hi Laney and Wimpress
<Laney> yo duflu
 * Wimpress surveys the landscape
<Wimpress> No explosions here
<Laney> happy the conservative party is finished day?
<Laney> ah wait, not that one either
<Wimpress> We can hope.
<duflu> I like watching dramas on TV sometimes, but this one is supposedly real
 * Laney stares at systemd
<Laney> y u no enable my unit
<Laney> https://paste.debian.net/1112568/
<Laney> weird
<Laney> it's the drop-in that breaks it
<LuckyMan> testing 123
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, hi :)
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, I think "dh_strip -a --no-automatic-dbgsym" is not good for ubuntu?
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: that should only happen if BUILD_DBGSYM_PACKAGES = y
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, oh, did you turn off the dbgsym generation for your ppa`
<ricotz> ?
<ricotz> (I assumed this got broken)
<ricotz> never mind
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: yes it's off on my ppa
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: no worries, I need you to nip at my heals now and then :P
<marcustomlinson> oh and I meant BUILD_DBGSYM_PACKAGES != y earlier
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, heh, will do ;)
<Laney> GunnarHj: I notice you didn't backport the new tests for the GDBus fix - any particular reason?
<Laney> (back after lunch)
<GunnarHj> Laney: I did in eoan and disco, didn't I? The reason why I skipped it in bionic and xenial is that the test commit didn't apply. Don't think Meson was in use for tests in those releases.
<GunnarHj> Laney: Also, FWIW, my impression is that the author of the fix doesn't insist on it; see the latest comment at https://bugs.debian.org/941018
<GunnarHj> Laney: So, in short, I didn't know how to make the commit apply and/or was lazy...
<ubot5> Debian bug 941018 in libglib2.0-0 "libglib2.0-0: libdbus clients fail to authenticate with private GDBusServer" [Serious,Fixed]
<hellsworth> morning desktoppers
<davidkrauser> I've noticed on 19.10 with X11 fractional scaling set to 1.25x, the pointer duplicates itself when I login to a new session. The original pointer sticks on the screen at 1x size, and I get a new pointer to use that's scaled for the 1.25x session. Has anyone else seen this behavior?
<davidkrauser> I tried grabbing a regular screenshot, but the stuck pointer doesn't show up in the resulting image. So here's a less helpful image taken with my phone:
<davidkrauser> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/O6XIFkAt/two-pointers.jpg
<davidkrauser> the right pointer moves with my mouse, the other is stationary
<davidkrauser> if I disable/re-enable fractional scaling in the session, the second pointer disappears
<hellsworth> davidkrauser: do you mind to file a bug about that? that way your testing isnt lost in irc
<davidkrauser>  hellsworth: definitely. Which project should I file it against?
<hellsworth> i think that's mutter
<hellsworth> we can always chage the project too if needbe
<davidkrauser> hellsworth: +1, thank you
<hellsworth> np thanks for the testing and bug report!
<davidkrauser> np
<davidkrauser> bug opened: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/904
<gitbot> GNOME issue 904 in mutter "Duplicate mouse pointer with X11 fractional scaling" [Opened]
<Wimpress> Afternoon hellsworth o/
<hellsworth> hi Wimpress :)
<marcustomlinson> davidkrauser: oh I think hellsworth meant https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+filebug :)
<diddledan> making progress on a gnome-boxes snap
<diddledan> nearly got it compiled
<GunnarHj> Laney: I'm making an attempt to include the tests in bionic too. Let's see if it builds...
<Laney> GunnarHj: I'm trying, don't worry about it
<Laney> Looks like it requires some minor Makefile.am changes but nothing too drastic
<GunnarHj> Laney: I already did it in bionic, but please do it in xenial if you know how.
<davidkrauser> thanks, marcustomlinson, I'll move my content over there :-)
<marcustomlinson> davidkrauser: thank _you_ :)
<hellsworth> davidkrauser: so sorry for the confusion. i should have been more clear to file an ubuntu bug. thanks for being flexible :)
<davidkrauser> hellsworth: not your fault. This page led me astray: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mutter
<GunnarHj> Laney: Well, it built, but the new tests seem not to be included. So it would be great if you could handle bionic too, if you think they should be there.
<GunnarHj> Laney: In bionic it's gio/tests/meson.build, but the upstream code is slightly different compared to later versions.
<davidkrauser> hellsworth: it looks like there's a wayland specifc bug already open that could be the same: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1841894
<davidkrauser> I'm seeing this on X11, though. Should I open a new bug, or add to the existing?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1841894 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Wayland: Image of mouse cursor left on screen after unlock" [Low,Confirmed]
<hellsworth> davidkrauser: you're only seeing it on x11? or x11 as well as wayland?
<davidkrauser> haven't tried wayland
<hellsworth> if you're only seeing it on x11, try to just modify the bug you opened to say x11 instead of wayland
<davidkrauser> only on X11
<hellsworth> yeah jsut modify the current bug if you can
<davidkrauser> updated here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1841894
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1841894 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Wayland: Image of mouse cursor left on screen after unlock" [Low,Confirmed]
<davidkrauser> thanks for the pointers
<Laney> GunnarHj: ok, the test works on bionic but not xenial (it hangs), so you should make extra sure that the actual fix works there I think
<Laney> going to upload now
<GunnarHj> Laney: My thought is to verify explicitly in all versions, but sure, some extra attention is motivated in xenial then. Thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-03
<bluesabre> xnox: are there any plans to port libappindicator to python3? This in in relation to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libappindicator/+bug/1848766
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1848766 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu still pulls in Python2 via the python-gtk2-dev b-d in libappindicator" [High,New]
<fossfreedom> bluesabre: isn't that what libappindicator3 is for? Is libappindicator just for those really old indicators. Most I guess should be already using libappindicator3
<bluesabre> fossfreedom: gotcha... I guess I'm just thrown off by that bug report, since we don't ship libappindicator and I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from
<bluesabre> fossfreedom: followed up with doko on the bug report
<fossfreedom> What gets uninstalled when you remove that package?
<jbicha> bluesabre: we're just doing to drop the python support. bug 1740637
<ubot5> bug 1740637 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "Remove python-appindicator and gir1.2-appindicator-0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740637
<jbicha> *going*
<bluesabre> jbicha: gotcha, thanks.
<bluesabre> fossfreedom: nothing, it's not installed :D
<diddledan> hellsworth: smth you might want to look at on Monday: I've been working on the gimp snap yaml to improve things; I removed the help docs and stripped binaries that are also in core18 or gnome-3-28-1804 to reduce the snap size considerably; over 50% reduction.. I did the work on the gimp 2.10.12 version so that you can possibly reuse my changes for glimpse https://github.com/snapcrafters/gimp/pull/83
<gitbot> snapcrafters issue (Pull request) 83 in gimp "Reduce snap size" [Open]
