#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-14
<\sh> hmmm...actually it's 6pm in montreal..but this is  launchpad-dependencies (0.1breezy1) breezy-updates; urgency=low really hard
<\sh> starting the merge run
<LaserJock> ok, so what can a non-MOTU do to help with merges?
* Kyral comes in riding on a rocket
<LaserJock> BTW, Kyral did you get that email I sent?
<Kyral> yah
<crimsun> minghua: the standard zai jian?
<\sh> ok
<\sh> what i do is the following
<crimsun> (my client munges utf-8)
<\sh> u see the topic, the last entry
<LaserJock> \sh: yep
<\sh> ok...go to the first list (without the
<\sh> b
<LaserJock> k
<\sh> now...
<\sh> u see the mom processes running
<\sh> first one (3ddesktop)
<\sh> is a 404
<\sh> second one is main
<\sh>  * Processing aalib
<\sh>    - unstable: 1.4p5-29
<\sh>    - main: 1.4p5-28ubuntu3
<\sh> third one is 404
<\sh> abiword is main
<\sh> now
<Kyral> Ace right?
<\sh> * Processing ace
<\sh>    - unstable: 5.4.7-5
<\sh>    - universe: 5.4.7-3ubuntu1
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> are u all subscribed to universe-bugs?
<LaserJock> yep
<Kyral> I am
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> then u should see two bugs from me
<\sh> the latest ones
<Kyral> yup
<\sh> Subject: 	[Bug 4012]  ace: merge new debian version
<\sh> Date: 	Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:47:04 -0000  (01:47 CET)
<\sh> and allegro4.1
<\sh> right now I'm working on alleyoop
<\sh> ok...what i'm doing
<\sh> I file a bug in malone
<\sh> assign the bug to universe-bugs (search for it)
<\sh> and write a comment on the same page where the assignee is
<\sh> Assignee: <nick>
<\sh> if tested the stuff in my pbuilder and checked again, if the merge is necessary, or better a sync is requested
<\sh> I'll put this as well in this comment
<\sh> so if the merge is nescessary
<Kyral> So how do we tell if a merge is needed?
<Kyral> if it builds right?
<\sh> then provide us motus (with upload rights) with a list of bugs of you in malone
<\sh> please add to every bug the link to scotts html directory
<\sh> which has the form: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/<source-packagename>
<\sh> Kyral: ok...go to the directory
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/alleyoop/
<Kyral> yup
<\sh> read the REPORT
<Kyral> hmm...I can understand some of it
<\sh> that is quite good for the beginning
<\sh> the most important part is this
<\sh> Check the following patch:
<\sh> 	alleyoop_merged.patch  -- new changes in Ubuntu (0.9.0-3 -> 0.9.0-3ubuntu1)
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> if u see, that we changed in earlier ubuntu versions only some build-deps or deps
<Kyral> Oh, so view the patch itself
<\sh> check the debian patches first if they applied them already in the new version
<\sh> sure
<\sh> if they applied them (as I described it) then u can check the plain debian version from sid (unstable) get the package and compile the debian package
<\sh> if there are more changes or separated patches applied (like in ace) u have to merge everything..check the changelog entries...ubuntu and debian changelogs MUST be in the right timeframe
<\sh> if u check the ace directory and see the patches u will see, that MoM made a mistake and ruled out one debian version
<\sh> THEN u have to manually change the changes between old ubuntu version and NEW debian version
<\sh> which is hard
<\sh> and U should work on the low hanging frute
<\sh> fruit
<Kyral> so basically run through, see if the Debian and Ubuntu patches agree, and file the bug?
<\sh> yes..and file the bug before u do something
<Kyral> so...see to see if it builds
<\sh> check the merge directory of scott...provide this as describtion in the bug
<minghua> crimsun: you mean Keybuk's quit message?
<\sh> check in your local dapper pbuilder
<Kyral> from Sid or from Dapper Source?
<\sh> Kyral: if you have to merge changes...then use the version in scotts directory
<Kyral> I mean I check what? Sid Source?
<\sh> if the changes are trivial and are already applied in the new debian version..then take SIDs version and compile in dapper pbuilder
<\sh> Kyral: in scotts directory are .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> yup yup
<Kyral> I'm looking at alsoplayer now
<Kyral> alsaplayer even
<\sh> Kyral: if you see trivial changes which are now applied in the debian version, and u think we can sync...then SIDs version of the package...if not, use the source version from scott
<\sh> Kyral: and only check Universe packages
<\sh> NO MAIN PACKAGES
<crimsun> minghua: yes
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> alsaplayer is in Universe :D
<minghua> crimsun: no, a very strange phrase, see my comments in #ubuntu-devel
<Kyral> Yah I don't think the changes in Alsaplayer are trivial....
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<crimsun> minghua: my irc client munges the glyphs, so it's nonsensical to me
<Kyral> so grab Scotts version, try building it, then file the bug?
<crimsun> Kyral/ LaserJock: fwiw, I'm working from the bottom up, beginning with zsi.
<\sh> first file the bug
<\sh> so we can see who is working on what
<\sh> and provide the url to scotts directory
<crimsun> \sh: are we using a specific title convention?
<crimsun> like [Dapper MOM] : zsi needs sync from Debian Sid (1.7-1)
<Kyral> the search in Launchpad for "universe-bugs" turned up MOTU Team
<bmonty> can someone help clarify the policy for staying synced with debian?  Do we want to try to not make -ubuntuX versions of packages and push our patches to debian to sync, or should I just make patches for ubuntu?
<\sh> crimsun: <source-packagename>: merge new debian version
<bmonty> Kyral: that is correct
<crimsun> \sh: gotcha
<\sh> bmonty: if possible push all changes to debian...
<\sh> bmonty: but if debian is not fast enough do it as normal...apply the patch and create an ubuntu package
<bmonty> \sh: do we want to wait for the debian maintainer to accept the patch and upload, or just push the patch to them?
<bmonty> how long would be considered a reasonable time to wait?
<\sh> bmonty: push them to the maintainer via bts
<\sh> bmonty: max. 2 days ,)
<bmonty> like right now in the beginning of the dev cycle I think we can wait longer than towards the end
<\sh> which is in ubuntu time a year :)
<\sh> bmonty: we only have 6 weeks for open development
<\sh> bmonty: which is packed with merges, new stuff etc.
<bmonty> \sh: I've been opening debian bugs and then attaching them to malone bugs (kinda inefficient)
<Kyral> So file the bug as "alsaplayer: merge new debian version"
<bmonty> \sh: so basically we are still making an ubuntu version no matter what...but making an extra effort to push the patches to debian
<\sh> bmonty: what do u want? if u need to patch a package then push the bug to debian...merging .. file a bug to malone now...do the merge.
<Kyral> and in Description: put the link to Scotts directory
<\sh> bmonty: what patch are u talking about? most trivial ones, like changed build-deps or cxx stuff is already in debian
<Kyral> then assign it to MOTU and explaination "Assignee: Kyral"
<Kyral> right?
<\sh> bmonty: other patches are already catched by utnubu
<bmonty> \sh: more should I wait to ask one of you guys to upload a patch until after I have a response from the debian maintainer, or just work like I did for breezy
<\sh> bmonty: only new patches we should push towards debian right now
<crimsun> Kyral: yes, but make sure you ask for a merge for at least -7
<crimsun> Kyral: (should be implicit by requesting a sync)
<Kyral> It looks like it needs a merge
<Kyral> I just need to build it to make sure it builds ;D
<\sh> bmonty: provide a list with your malone bugs filed ... during the week I'll take all the bugs and check them all (which means u, bmonty, i will upload unchecked :))
<Kyral> gotta file the bug first right? :D
<bmonty> \sh: example...I made a patch for wesnoth that fixes the test scenario, I have an ubuntu version of the package, but since I think it is a packaging omission on the part of the debian maintainer I filed a bug in BTS
<Kyral> so sync if the changes are trivial
<\sh> bmonty: ok...this is something...well...if the debian maintainer is fast enough...we can wait for him to sync
<Kyral> merge if they aren't trivial
<\sh> bmonty: if he's not responding in 2 days...then prepare a package and give us a debdiiff from last version to your version...
<bmonty> \sh: k that makes sense
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alsaplayer/+bug/4018 <--Like that?
<bmonty> here is another one...I packaged the newest version of gphpedit (#3099) and put it on REVU
<bmonty> I also emailed the debian maintainer and he said that he has also packaged the newest version, but the DD he works with is too busy to upload the new package
<bmonty> gphpedit is completely useless without the upgrade
<\sh> Kyral: yes...assign it now to universe-bugs
<\sh> and write status notes
<bmonty> and set the status to accepted
<Kyral> with Explination: Assignee Kyral in status
<Kyral> right?
<bmonty> or a comment that says you are working on it
<\sh> status notes is better
<\sh> that we can see in the bug report by mail
<Kyral> Done
<bmonty> status notes are ok, but IMHO are less intuitive than a comment on the main page
<\sh> for a comment i get two mails.
<\sh> for a status note I get only one mail :)
<bmonty> \sh: true, malone does like to generate a lot of email!
<Kyral> Now to download from scott's dir and build this thing
<Kyral> if it builds tell you guys?
<LaserJock> I have a package that says it needs GTK+ 2.4 so does libgtk2.0-dev (=> 2.4.0) work?
<Kyral> I'll work from the top down BTW
<minghua> bmonty: maybe you can offer to collaborate with the Debian maintainer of gphpedit
<\sh> bmonty: well..it can do more
<crimsun> LaserJock: yes
<bmonty> minghua: I did, just no response :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: except you'd use >=
<Kyral> what do I do if it builds/fails?
<LaserJock> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> Kyral: you ask. I'll look at alsaplayer if it fails; I was planning to ask for a sync this week
<bmonty> minghua: same issue with uim....
<minghua> bmonty: okay.
<Kyral> and if it passes?
<minghua> bmonty: I know the uim maintainer is busy
<crimsun> if it passes, update the bug report and let one of us with upload privs know
<bmonty> minghua: no doubt, I'm just trying to figure out how long to wait
<bmonty> uim is kind of a moot point since it was uploaded to dapper today by Martin Pitt
<minghua> bmonty: so the gphpedit maintainer just replied one mail to you and didn't reply further requests?
<bmonty> minghua: correct
<LaserJock> what is the difference between mom.20051107.log and mom.20051107b.log ?
<Kyral> I'll build it as soon as my PBuilders finish updating
<crimsun> LaserJock: ask again, he flooded off
<Kyral> Here goes nothing
<Kyral> So while I wait for this to compile, who has tried E17?
<\sh> ok
<\sh> when your package is uploaded (please make sure your all whitelisted for breezy changes)
<\sh> aeh dapper changes
<\sh> u are as well reponsible to check the buildd logs
<\sh> which can be found here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
<Kyral> whitelisted?
<LaserJock> what is the difference between mom.20051107.log and mom.20051107b.log ?
<\sh> but better to look here: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<Kyral> Already have it bookmarked ;P
<\sh> the b.log file is for all packages which had 404 in the file without the b
<Kyral> I'm not even a MOTU, how do I get whitelisted
<Kyral> \sh you showed farrium and I that site at Ubuntu Love I think ;P
<Kyral> How do I get whitelisted?
<Kyral> Got it! Alsaplayer builds in my Dapper PBuilder
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, I asked elmo for breezy but he said that it was irrelivent because of launchpad
<\sh> Kyral: with elmo...
<\sh> wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<\sh> oh
<\sh> LaserJock: are u member?
<\sh> then it's irrelevant
<LaserJock> \sh: of what
<\sh> LaserJock: ubuntu
<Kyral> Neither of us are Ubuntu Members
<LaserJock> \sh: nope
<\sh> ok...lets try it later
<Kyral> We are the two super trainees of the MOTU gang ;P
<LaserJock> but I was whitelisted for breezy anyway
<crimsun> Kyral: the only merge that should have been necessary is the glu one
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, I don't know about "super" ;-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: you are whitelisted then
<Kyral> crimsun, the debian patch file looked a lot different than the Ubuntu one ;P
<crimsun> Kyral: the debian patch has significant advantages
<Kyral> ah
<crimsun> Kyral: in fact, you would be best working from -7 and working in the ubuntu diff
<Kyral> so I should only pay attention to the merge.patch
<Kyral> -7?
<crimsun> (just as an ALSA-centric person)
<crimsun> -7 in sid
<Kyral> so look in ubuntu.debdiff?
<\sh> Kyral: check the merged one
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> so if I only see changelog entry differences, then its a SYNC
<\sh> Kyral: merges are the highest discipline
<Kyral> if anything else its a MERGE
<Kyral> correct?
<Kyral> (trying to fit this into a quick sort type thing for my mind)
<\sh> Kyral: no...u have to check as well the debian/control in the debdiff..
<crimsun> Kyral: just skip alsaplayer, I'll merge it
<\sh> Kyral: think about the gl/glu transition in ubuntu which hasn't happend in debian yet
<Kyral> okay
<\sh> crimsun: hehe...old pro
<Kyral> so...
<Kyral> if only Control and Changelog are changed its a sync?
<\sh> amile
<\sh> amule
<\sh> Kyral: no
<\sh> Kyral: if the changes in control are the same in debian and in the ubuntu diff...then i could be a sync..u have to check :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: my understanding is, if the reason there was a ubuntuX is fixed by syncing then that is what needs to be done
<LaserJock> otherwise, fix the sid package to fix what was fixed by Ubuntu before
* Kyral head hurts now....
<\sh> hehehe
* LaserJock gett tired of the word fix ;-)
<Kyral> Someone just set down really easy rules I can follow
<Kyral> if ( this ) else if (this) else (this)
<\sh> Kyral: believe me when I say...i had the headache just after the cxx transition
<\sh> in breezy
<LaserJock> Kyral: I see it as "minimize the number of ubuntuX versions" or the Debian/Ubuntu delta
<Kyral> Oh I can believe it
<Kyral> so..I'm looking at ardour
<LaserJock> man, who is going to have fun with zope? *g*
<Kyral> In the merge.debdiff I only see the control and changelog entries
<Kyral> and the debian.debdiff is 19 megabytes....
<crimsun> leave ardour. In fact, leave anything that build-depends on libjack*-dev
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> yeah
<crimsun> we need to transition to libjack0.100.0-dev first
<Kyral> Yah I battled with libjack
<Kyral> when I tried to do Mixxx
<Kyral> umm, okay
<Kyral> whats up with axiom
<Kyral> there is no REPORT, no merge.debdiff
<Kyral> what is this? A Sync?
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> I think I should sit this one out
<\sh> Kyral: is it 404 ?
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/axiom/
<Kyral> the log SAYS it generated a merge.debdiff
<\sh> Kyral: don't touch it...there is nothing inside...ask keybuk tomorrow montreal time :)
<Kyral> \sh, you forget
<Kyral> Montreal Time is also my time :P
<crimsun> yeah, MOM sometimes takes a vacation to $random
<Kyral> Seems more like /dev/null this time
<magnon> hey \sh
<\sh> Kyral: ok..keybuk should be at lunch
<crimsun> certainly a valid value for $random
<\sh> aeh dinner
<\sh> hey magnon
<magnon> I can't sleep :( jetlag
<Kyral> So can I put the alsa thing on my Wikipage?
<\sh> magnon: ah come on..
<\sh> I slept 16 hours from day before yesterday to yesterday
<magnon> so did I
<magnon> but I wasn't up before 2pm
<bmonty> magnon: a dose of Nyquil and a couple of beers is a great way to cure jetlag
<magnon> I would never take a dose of anything, and \sh bought be enough beer already
<Kyral> Okay...if a patch dropped its a bad thing right...
<\sh> magnon: what? beer and pizzy at hubs place?
<magnon> no
<magnon> the large one at the airport
<\sh> magnon: ah...come on..nothing that is
<\sh> magnon: I just drank beer today
<magnon> plus three gt's and two beer more paid by mez and jblack :P
<LaserJock> I can't seem to upload the same version of package to REVU dput goes OK but I don't see it
<Kyral> dput -f
<\sh> rm *.upload
<\sh> ok...ace is done
<\sh> amule still building
<magnon> \sh: you can't sleep either it seems
<\sh> so one last cigarette for today
<magnon> oh, that sounds nice
<\sh> magnon: oh well...I just got up at 6
* Kyral really to find a simple rule for if its a sync or merge
<magnon> haha
<magnon> ok
<\sh> reclaimed my luggage, went to the county court, and tried to get rid of my inheritage claim of more depts I could pay...I payed now 100 eur to not take the inheritage
<\sh> just because I was too late, but could show them, that I wasn't in germany
<bmonty> \sh: at least reason prevaled :)
<\sh> but after amule I go to bed
<magnon> reason always costs about 100 eur
* Kyral must be stupid tonight if he can't understand this
<Kyral> or drunk, could be
<Kyral> s/drunk/tired
* magnon should work on universe but has to write some job applications
<ajmitch> hi
<magnon> ajmitch!
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
<magnon> you suddenly disappeared :/
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> yes, I got a plane, I said I was leaving about 12
<\sh> back in NZ?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> US
<\sh> oh
<\sh> visiting bddebian?
<\sh> where is he btw
<ajmitch> he's in pennsylvania
<tseng> you are with bdebian?
* ajmitch is back in NZ on the 17th
<ajmitch> no, I'm not
<tseng> for how long?
<ajmitch> I'm in NY
<tseng> oh.
<tseng> bddebian is very close to me
<ajmitch> yes, where?
<tseng> central pennsylvania
<tseng> West Chester
<tseng> next to philadelphia
<tseng> he is in valley forge
<ajmitch> ok, about 4 & 1/2 hours from here, apparantly
<tseng> ya =/
<magnon> corey :)
<ajmitch> brb, just installed breezy here, going to check if XP still operates
<magnon> haha, this is so cute
<magnon> http://www.nsa.gov/kids/home_html.cfm
<Kyral> okay...why did when I try to install cvs, it wants to remove x11-proto?
<\sh> ok....done for now/
<\sh> sleeping time....
<\sh> cu later
<Kyral> seriously
<Kyral> why does installing cvs remove x11proto-gl-dev?
<Kyral> psh its aptitude being an idiot
<Kyral> I guess I need root to compile E17
<minghua> what if the changes in hoary can be dropped?
<minghua> I am looking at the packages I worked on C++ transtition
<minghua> one of them is libmath++, and the debian version finished the transition as well
<crimsun> we always prefer the Debian version
<minghua> I think we can just use the new debian version
<crimsun> if it tests ok to you, then we can just sync it
<Kyral> crimsun
<Kyral> is that my stupid easy rule?
<Kyral> :P
<Kyral> if the Sid builds in Dapper PBuilder sync it?
<minghua> crimsun: ok, I'll test it and report back later (no access to ubuntu machine now)
<minghua> Kyral: I suppose you need to make sure that no changes in the ubuntu patch is worth keeping?
<Kyral> I dunno, I'm new at this whole thing
<Kyral> and I doubt I will be doing anymore compiling tonight
<Kyral> seeing as I'm compiling E17 from CVS right now ;P
* Kyral hates it when people offer up packages made with checkinstall
* seth_k|lappy too
<Kyral> I just want to stabbity them
<dredg> what's checkinstall?
<Kyral> a shitass method for making Debian Packages
<Kyral> you should be shot if you use it
<dredg> a quick google has left me scared
<dredg> people use that?
<Kyral> Oh what does Google say?
<LaserJock> ok, I can't for the life of me get REVU to show a new upload of the same version
<dredg> http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/
<Yagisan> IIRC it used to be promoted as a quick and easy way to make debs on the forums
<Kyral> Yah it was
<Kyral> and people still use it
<Kyral> and guess where the offender came from this time?
<Yagisan> forums ?
<Kyral> Bingo
<Kyral> dredg, I cannot hit that link
<Yagisan> Kyral: I could, but it will horrify you
<Yagisan> Kyral: what did they "package"
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> GAIM 2.0 CVS
<crimsun> ;(
<crimsun> well, we do give you enough rope to hang yourself...
<LaserJock> could I get a MOTU to review a package (plotdrop) on REVU for me?
<Kyral> I mean, if you are using it just so you can uninstall something easy, thats fine
<crimsun> doing merge work atm; I'll try to look at REVU later
<Kyral> but if you plan to share the package you should be shot
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, the package I am packaging now (plotdrop) has a checkinstall .deb posted at the homepage
<Kyral> How can you tell if a Deb is Checkinstalled?
<minghua> no /usr/share/doc/<package_name>/copyright, I suppose?
<crimsun> yeah, general sloppiness
<LaserJock> Kyral: well, I can't remember now, but I am sure there was something about it
<LaserJock> oh, now I remember. Under Section it will have checkinstall
<Kyral> lol
* minghua must admit that checkinstall is an honest tool
<crimsun> we could "adjust" dpkg to refuse to install packages with such a Section
<bmonty> if a user wants to install a checkinstall package, they should be free to do it
<minghua> maybe have dpkg to give a big fat warning for Section:checkinstall is not a bad idea after all, but don't refuse to install it
<bmonty> i like that idea
<LaserJock> I use it for local packages that I install. It is handy for that. But I would never distribute something I made using it
<Kyral> Yah...
<Kyral> if someone handed me a CheckInstall Package, I'd hit'em with a copy of the New Maintainers Guide
<LaserJock> lol, I can imagine that
<Kyral> It would be like
<Kyral> "You insult the Debian Gods! I smacketh thou down!"
<LaserJock> I sure wish I could get REVU down. It is kinda frustrating. I feel really dumb
<bmonty> I'm doing a merge of bzflag
<Kyral> I'm reading CTRL+ALT+DEL
<crimsun> bmonty: / minghua: That was more tongue-in-cheek than serious
<bmonty> :)
<minghua> I'm half-serious :-)
<bmonty> how can I sign a changes file made from a pbuilder?
<Kyral> It should sign automatically
<Mithrandir> or just use debsign.
<crimsun> use debsign -k<keyid>
<bmonty> debisgn worked, thanks
<bmonty> I uploaded a merged bzflag to REVU if anyone wants to take a look
<Kyral> I gotta stop reading BOFH
<Kyral> Its making me think DarkSide Hacker thoughts
<LaserJock> dang, I wish you could find the Malone bugs you have commented on or at least subscribed to
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> I suggested that at Ubuntu Love
<Kyral> SHOWER TIME!
<LaserJock> could somebody look at bug #3252 ?
<minghua> If I want to confirm a merge from debian (dropping all previous ubuntu changes), should I file a launchpad bug first as well?
<Lathiat> no, only if its already got a bug
<minghua> Lathiat: cool, thanks
<Kyral> Hmm
<Kyral> I am feeling BOFHish
<Kyral> But...I cannot indulge my darkside
<minghua> Okay, I've tested the build.
<minghua> how should I request a sync for libmath++ 0.0.4-2 from debian?  all previous ubuntu changes should be dropped
<crimsun> minghua: ask elmo in -devel and say as much or send him an e-mail
<minghua> crimsun: thanks.  I've asked on #ubuntu-devel, will send email if I don't get reply
<zakame> afternoon all :D
<Yagisan> G'day zakame
<zakame> what's up?
<Yagisan> zakame: not much it seems.
<seth_k> siretart, when you come back: I have uploaded a package signed with my seth@ubuntu.com key ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=884 ) but when I try to recover password ( http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=seth@ubuntu.com ) then it's blank. Any idea?
<pef> hello
<zakame> hi pef :D
<pef> zakame: hi, you never sleep ? :] 
<zakame> pef: hehe no, I still do, 'tis too hard not to :D
<siretart> morning
<siretart> uuuh, so many hilights
<pef> siretart: one more
<pef> :)
<siretart> hi pef :)
<pef> siretart: hello :)
<zakame> hi siretart , wb pef
<zakame> wb siretart
<siretart> hi zakame
<pef> zakame: are you a bot ? :] 
<zakame> pef: buwhahaha
<pef> :D
<Nafallo> lol
<siretart> woah, we are db2 certified. w00t!
<zakame> yeah, 'tis was in -devel earlier :D
* siretart just got home and is reading email right now
<zakame> it is also now on the main site, with the DB2 logo now on it :)
<siretart> :)
<zakame> wb dholbach
<siretart> ... "ubuntu is an acient African word, meaning 'I'm sick of compiling gentoo'.. " *g*
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<zakame> siretart: hahaha
<dholbach> hellas zakame
<dholbach> hi siretart
<dholbach> hey everybody else
<siretart> :)
<hunger> siretart: Well, if you are not you can always become a maintainer:-)
<zakame> ei hunger
<siretart> hunger: I'll think about it
<zakame> hmmm, where do I propose membership for motu?
<zakame> I read in MaintainerCandidates that LP's ubuntu-dev team's the way to go, but I also see a motu team as well...
<siretart> do some works, get your packages uploaded, propose yourself to the CC, do some more work, propose yourself to the TB, and you'll get added to ubuntu-dev team
<Nafallo> zakame: member != motu :-)
<Nafallo> ehm, ignore me :-P
<zakame> ah, ok :)
<Nafallo> motu is for bugs, ubuntu-dev is for rights :-)
<siretart> I didn't exactly get where ubuntu-dev != MOTU, dholbach do you have a short rationale?
<dholbach> siretart: Nafallo said it
<siretart> s/where/why/
<siretart> okay
<siretart> dholbach: so we can add anyone interested in MOTU?
<dholbach> with motu subteams, i think that's already the case
* hunger hates not having internet for 4 days/week.
<siretart> I think I get the problem..
<dholbach> we should think about this properly
<Nafallo> hunger: wow. and you did actually survive?
<hunger> I wanted to continue with my debs yesterday night... just to discover that I need to download a tiny little snipplet of code from the net.
<zakame> hunger: awww
<hunger> Nafallo: I do have internet in the company... enough to chat, but that's it.
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> suicide is always an option, I think? ;-)
<hunger> Downloading, chatting, etc. not allowed.
<Nafallo> like "gimme internet or I'll be gone!"
* hunger has to tunnel through the firewall to do IRC.
<hunger> At least I can do some limited downloads that way, too... if I don't overdo it and get the network admins on my track.
<zakame> thanks folks, bbl
* hunger sighs.
<hunger> Downloading a kernel image with 460byte/s is no fun!
<Nafallo> no shit :-P
<siretart> \sh_away: around?
<Nafallo> siretart: he's clearly away ;-)
<siretart> Nafallo: obviously
<Nafallo> since that nick gets set when he's disconnected from the dircproxy ;-)
<poningru> hey who here is looking into testing stuff
<poningru> as in creation of standardized testing or something
<poningru> I was reading through couple of emails on the list and I saw someone talking about it
<poningru> wondering if we are still interested in this
<zyga> hello
<zakame> hi zyga
<\sh> moins
<zakame> eves
<siretart> hey \sh
<dholbach> who of you avahi people will package http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-user-share/0.6/gnome-user-share-0.6.tar.gz ? :)
<dholbach> or shall i do it?
<Lathiat> dholbach: hah
<Lathiat> dholbach: a release with my patch?
<Lathiat> dholbach: i can do that
<dholbach> Lathiat: rock'n'roll
* Lathiat puts it on the todo list
<Lathiat> i have a real job atm :( haha
<dholbach> Lathiat: i will REVU it as soon as it's uploaded
<Lathiat> its a whole new concept ;)
<dholbach> Lathiat: it's horrible, isn't it? :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: just ping me, when you uploaded it
<Lathiat> sure
<slomo> i could do it too if you don't have enough time for it atm
<dholbach> slomo, Lathiat: maybe you can base the package on http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/gnome/gnome-user-share
<Lathiat> yeh we already ahve one
<Lathiat> its not much different
<Lathiat> should just be able to dump the new tarball in
<Lathiat> modify the build-deps
<Lathiat> and off you go
<dholbach> (and change the FSF adress) :-p
<dholbach> debian seems to care much about that change
* dholbach notices while merging
<zakame> dholbach: of course they do :D
<slomo> Lathiat: ok, then you do it =) shouldn't need that much time
<dholbach> if you don't change much to the packaging, just upload it
<hunger> HI selinium
<dholbach> it's not really new
<slomo> *shrug*
<selinium> hi hunger
<selinium> :)
<dholbach> slomo: ?
<slomo> Lathiat: i'll do it now if you don't mind... i have nothing to do in the next hour
<Lathiat> slomo: go ahead
<Lathiat> i have plenty to do ;)
<slomo> hmm... i'll give it to ajmitch afterwards ;) maybe we can get this into debian too
<slomo> hmm, shall i keep jdub as maintainer?
<slomo> dholbach?
<dholbach> slomo: ask him
<dholbach> if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to be the maintainer, ask him and go for it
<slomo> i don't want it ;) but i don't know if he still wants to be the maintainer...
<slomo> so let's keep him until he complains? ;)
<dholbach> you might have to ask elmo to remove it from random-blacklist
<dholbach> slomo: ask him
<slomo> ok
<slomo> hm, he isn't in -devel :(
<slomo> let's write a mail...
<slomo> dholbach: ok, package ready to be uploaded... i'll wait for his answer and upload it then
<dholbach> slomo: cool
<slomo> hmm, does malone already have a search function which searches for a string somewhere in the bugreport?
<dholbach> slomo: i suppose it searches in short and long description
<slomo> hm ok
<sivang> siretart: how do I know if a package on he MOM list has already been fixed, touched?
<Lathiat> you could see what version it was trying to merge
<Lathiat> and confirm..
<dholbach> sivang: the bug should be closed and you should see via apt-cache show ... | grep Version
<slomo> sivang: look at the corresponding bugreport in bugzilla
<Lathiat> that ours is the same or new
<Lathiat> slomo: bug reports were slackly udpated
<siretart> sivang: check the ubuntu-bugs mailing list
<\sh> slomo: for universe there ARE NO BUGS FOR UNIVERSE
<sivang> dholbach: what would I see there on the version?
<\sh> again....MoM filed no  Universe Merges into bugzilla
<\sh> only for main there are bugs in bugzilla
<dholbach> sivang: the version that is in the archive
<dholbach> sivang: last version that was touched (if you're on dapper)
<Nafallo> \sh: you should have that in topic :-P
<\sh> Nafallo: I'm just working on a wiki page
<Nafallo> ah, nice :-
<Nafallo> with the output of the grep? :-)
* Nafallo is to lazy to grep things ;-)
<tseng> grep --color :)
<\sh> Nafallo: no
<\sh> Nafallo: there is just more to do as just an grep
<\sh> s/an/a/
<Nafallo> k
<\sh> phew
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o \sh]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | TOP PRIO: Merging: http://tinyurl.com/auu5d | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerg
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<dholbach> slomo: new upstream release: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-user-share/0.7/gnome-user-share-0.7.tar.gz
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o \sh]  by \sh
* sivang checking \sh's page
* \sh has to get out of bed
* \sh has to do some real life work
<janimo> dholbach, evince FTBFS ;)
<\sh> laters
<dholbach> janimo: nice
<Kyral> Mornin'
<Kyral> mmm....new Cedega....
<Nafallo> Linux.Ubuntu.5.10.Breezy.Badger.MULTILANG.2005.Install-LiNiSO
<Nafallo> WTF!?
<Kyral> ??
<dholbach> janimo: broken archive / broken buildd
<janimo> broken archive?
<Nafallo> some group released 5.10 as a scene release :-P
<janimo> hmm maybe the cause of BADSIG warnings since 2 days ago?
<highvoltage> scene release?
<janimo> and no new packages even if ther are uploads?
<Nafallo> yepp, scene release.
<Kyral> wazzat
<Nafallo> they usally doesn't do free stuff ;-)
<Kyral> Whats a scene releases?
<Nafallo> a group of guys ripping non-free stuff like movies, music, programs and games over ftp-servers.
<Nafallo> s/over/and uploading to warez /
<Nafallo> welcometothescene might give some insight ;-)
<Nafallo> .com that is
<Kyral> And they released a debpack?
<Nafallo> nope, a scene-release of our free iso.
<Kyral> And is this a good or bad thing?
<Nafallo> nope, more like a stupid thing :-)
<Lathiat> Nafallo: hahahaha
<Kyral> A group of people who release normally legally questionable stuff released an Ubuntu ISO
<Nafallo> yepp :-P
<Kyral> more like defeating the purpose of the scene
<Lathiat> Nafallo: welcometothescene.com is boring
<Lathiat> welcometotehscene.com <-- interesting :
<Lathiat> :) rather
<Nafallo> tsss ;-)
<Kyral> Man I hope my Shipit CDs come soon
<Nafallo> I tried to watch the first they of tehscene :-P
<Nafallo> s/they/videos/ (what was I REALLY going to write there?)
<Nafallo> Kyral: if soon == 6.04, sure ;-)
<Kyral> Clarkson has an Open House this weekend
<Kyral> How awesome would it be to pass out Ubuntu CDs to the parents ;P
<Nafallo> is that a school?
<Kyral> Yah my university
<Kyral> I mean the parents of the Computer Science hopefuls
<Nafallo> make the principle pay for x number of empty cds and start burning then :-)
<Kyral> Its a college :P
<Kyral> www.clarkson.edu
<Nafallo> so? ;-)
<Kyral> Its a farkin' Open House
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<Kyral> You give out burned CDs at InstallFests
<Tonio_> does anyone now about freenx ?
<Kyral> not at Open Houses
<Kyral> Tonio_, I do
<Tonio_> okay
<Tonio_> is there a reason that no package exists at the moment ?
<Tonio_> that sounds very astonishing to me....
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> and I have to get going
<Kyral> I have class in an hour
<Tonio_> ok
<Tonio_> thanks ;)
<Kyral> I'd suspect its a licensing issue thou
<Tonio_> hum, I'll have a look ;)
<Tonio_> Kyral: it is hosted on berlios and GPL
<Tonio_> there shouldn't be any issue packaging it
<Kyral> Then ask Seveas to merge his package into Dapper
<Tonio_> http://freenx.berlios.de/download.php
<Tonio_> yep, packages do exist.... they just have to be merged...
<Kyral> Yah, I don't mean to sound tart. but I ain't a MOTU yet, and I'm hungry, and if I don't get food before class, I'm worthless :P
<Kyral> cya :P
<Tonio_> see ya
<shawarma> I keep forgetting: Should new packages without a counterpart in Debian have ubuntu-something in its revision?
<Nafallo> shawarma: 0ubuntuX
<shawarma> Nafallo: Roger.
<shawarma> Nafallo: Thanks.
<Nafallo> np :-)
<siretart> anyone working on merging right now?
<siretart> I have written a small python script to faciliate reporting of bugs, I intend to use that for my own
<siretart> if you are interested, please check this out: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools/
<siretart> (yes, this is an bzr branch)
<siretart> \sh_away: please proofread http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools/newmerge.py
<siretart> dholbach: just a proof check: are bugs filed like this correct? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mail-notification/+bug/4036
<dholbach> siretart: you want elmo to read those bugs?
<siretart> dholbach: \sh told me that he (or someone else) searches once a day for these sync bugs and hands them over to elmo
<siretart> dholbach: I could also have elmo CC'ed in my script, I really don't mind
<dholbach> hm
<siretart> script is here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools/newmerge.py
<dholbach> i think he likes mail/irc-notifications better
<siretart> I know
<jsgotangco> hello hello
<siretart> the question was rather if he want all syncs seperate or in one mail
<Nafallo> lol last-uploader :-)
<dholbach> siretart: ask him :)
<siretart> :/
<Nafallo> is he dangerous? :-P
<Nafallo> either ask him or implement cc to him and face the consequenses ;-)
<siretart> I'd rather don't learn what consequences this could have
<Nafallo> :-)
<siretart> hey Fuddl, hi magnon!
<magnon> morning!
<siretart> Fuddl: did you read my email concerning the quake3 debian package?
<Fuddl> siretart: not yet, but i forced sylpheed to fetch mail a second ago ;)
<Fuddl> siretart: i don't get the point. is he searching for a sponsor or would he like to sponsor the package?
<siretart> Fuddl: afaiu he is searching for a sponsor
<siretart> and has packages prepared
<Fuddl> ah... this turns out in the second paragraph.
<pef> I'm working on my first merge http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10185, and using dpkg-source dsc file I got a debian/changelog file where the sync seems to be done, does this request merge should be closed ?
<siretart> pef: do you have a debdiff? then attach it to that bug and poke Riddel to upload it for you
<pef> siretart: I just don't really understand why I got this entry on the changelog
<siretart> pef: I dont get you
<pef> siretart: if a new ubuntu version of konversation is uploaded, does this new archive put in the report ?
<pef> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/konversation/
<pef> here I mean
<siretart> pef: ah, so you noticed a newer version is already in ubuntu
<siretart> pef: in that case, close the bug, riddel can reopen it if necessary
<pef> siretart: this bug is a request for a merge, and on the orig.tar.gz file, debian/changelog last entry is about this merge
<siretart> pef: this bug is created automatically by MoM
<janimo> anybody using dapper pbuilder?
<janimo> pbuilder create fails here with lots of missing deps
<siretart> janimo: install breezy and upgrade to dapper
<siretart> janimo: dapper is uninstallable atm
<janimo> siretart, so pbuilder create breez and than update tha?
<janimo> thanks
<dholbach> see you guys... i'm off to berlin
<siretart> cu dholbach!
<hub> c-ya
<LS|-away-> hello everybody
<LS|-away-> is there a possibility to submit "pakage-ideas" for drapper drake?
<siretart> hi LS|-away- (not really away, are you? ;))
<LordSavage> better ;)
<LordSavage> ?
<siretart> LS|-away-: if you want to submit new packages, upload them to http://revu.tauware.de
* siretart ignores nickchanges with matching *away*, so I don't mind
<LordSavage> thats not exactly what i want
<LordSavage> 1. sorry for my poor english
<LordSavage> 2. there is a gimp hack called "gimpshop". but there are no .deb pakages for ubuntu or even .deb pakages at all
<siretart> so try to package it or find someone to package it for you ;)
<LordSavage> i think it would be nice to have this pakage in the ubuntu sources
<LordSavage> i got it running
<LordSavage> by compiling from source
<LordSavage> but it was a lot of work
<LordSavage> and i am not able to create a .deb pakage :/
<LordSavage> no chance to get a pakage in hm?
<siretart> list it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates and hope somebody finds it there and has interest in packaging it
<LordSavage> thx
<LordSavage> uh, looks complicated ;D
<LordSavage> could you log in and list it please. i have no account
<LordSavage> i give you the information and you just have to c&p
<LordSavage> hm? :)
<siretart> you don't need an account to look at our wiki
<LordSavage> but i need one to add a pakage idea
<LordSavage> right?
<elektranox> is sb. knowing gdesklets and a plugin for a terminal?
<siretart> https://launchpad.net/+register
<hunger> AAARRRGGG!!! This build system SUX!
<hunger> The distclean target depends on clean.
<hunger> clean removes a file.
<hunger> distclean creates it again afterwards.
<Nafallo> ROTFL
<slomo_> hunger: better than one of the packages i've seen... distclean removes the whole generated autotools stuff ;)
<hunger> And silly me is hacking on clean to get that damn file removed.
<hunger> slomo_: That is how it should be IIRC:-)
<LordSavage> [17:42]  <siretart> https://launchpad.net/+register    <- i am so happy that there is bugmenot.com ^^
<slomo_> hunger: yes? imho not... distclean should reset the sourcetree in the same state like in the tarball... and in the tarball you have configure for example
<hunger> slomo_: You are right. I was thinking about maintainer-clean.
* Nafallo hugs a bit on slomo
<slomo_> at least it was painfull to testbuild that package... configure was always gone after one build atemp ;)
<slomo_> thanks Nafallo =)
<slomo_> Nafallo: hmm... i had a question regarding swedish earlier today... hmm... i need to remember *grmpf*
<hunger> make clean: file is gone. make distclean and back it is!
<Nafallo> hihi
<Nafallo> slomo_: I've been on jabber since 7-ish? ;-)
<LordSavage> oh, gimpshop is alredy in the UniverseCandidates, i am sry
<LordSavage> for bugging you
<hub> LordSavage: I have it almost packaged here
<slomo_> hunger: another question... why is distclean _creating_ files? that's really bogus ;)
<LordSavage> oh, its you
<LordSavage> thx :)
<LordSavage> this is why i didn't find it before
<hunger> slomo_: Because somebody needs to hit those guys with a cluestick wrt. make.
<hunger> slomo_: I volunteered to convert the complete system to automake, but they said they don't want that... Too complicated.
<hunger> Instead they prefer to maintain a bunch of independent make-only systems that are stitched together.
<slomo_> hunger: hehe... it isn't easy when you've never worked with it... yes ;) but broken makefiles are harder...
<hub> hunger: which package?
* hunger shrugs.
<hunger> hub: Xen
<hub> ho
<hunger> hub: I tend to start with the easy stuff:-)
<siretart> uhuh..
<hub> hunger: then go with sysprof
<siretart> arn't there there already xen packages available somewhere?
<hub> hunger: it is a nice thingy that need to build a kernel module
<slomo_> elektranox: ?
<hunger> siretart: Yeap. I stole lots of stuff there.
<hunger> siretart: They are terribly outdated.
<elektranox> slomo: i prefere to speak german ^^
<slomo_> elektranox: ok, but why do you create a DCC CHAT for that? ;) a simple query would be easier :P
<elektranox> slomo: because my knowledge in IRC is not very big (4 time :p)
<hunger> hub: Dunno... is building a module harder than trying to put a layer underneath the kernel?
<hub> hunger: not sure.
<hub> hunger: but it is not trivial
<hunger> hub Guess so.
<LordSavage> @hub: could you send me the gimpshop pakage, when it's ready, please?
<LordSavage> i tried to msg you but...
<LordSavage> Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
* hunger wants to get his stuff into a state to put onto revu this WE.
<LordSavage> so, here is what i wrote
<LordSavage> [17:51]  <LordSavage> maybe you should put the photoshop shortcuts in the package too
<LordSavage> [17:51]  <LordSavage> http://epierce.freeshell.org/gimp/gimp_ps.php
<LordSavage> [17:51]  <LordSavage> thank you so far
<LordSavage> [17:52]  <LordSavage> they are linked on the gimpshop hp too
<siretart> cool
* \sh isn't here...
<\sh> siretart: ping
<siretart> \sh: pong
* siretart loves playing ping pong ;)
<\sh> siretart: apt-cache showsrc
<\sh> first
<\sh> and second...a default key must be set
<\sh> filing bug on package ace
<\sh> gpg: can't query passphrase in batch mode
<\sh> gpg: no default secret key: bad passphrase
<\sh> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: bad passphrase
<siretart> \sh: apt-cache showsrc does not exit with error if package nonexistent
<siretart> \sh: and I assume an gpg agent has been setup correctly
<\sh> siretart: ok...
<\sh> siretart: shermann@r200-shermann:~/launchpad/motu-tools$ apt-cache show ace
<\sh> shermann@r200-shermann:~/launchpad/motu-tools$ apt-cache show ace
<\sh> W: Unable to locate package ace
<\sh> E: No packages found
<siretart> hm. I see
<\sh> and a gpg agent is not setup by default
<siretart> I knew about that problem, but I didn't expect it to happen THAT fast ;)
<siretart> thats right..
<\sh> siretart: u asked me for review :)
<\sh> what about starting up a gpg agent by first run?
<\sh> but anyways...
<\sh> i need to hurry....have to go shipping...forgot something
<\sh> brb
<siretart> \sh: cu later
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> seahorse-agent should be default in a MOTUs session ;-)
* Nafallo apt-get install ubuntu-motu :-P
<ogra> Nafallo, real men use plain gpg ;)
<LordSavage> hub?
<Nafallo> ogra: I'm to lazy to type 30+ chars everytime I'll show my inbox in evo ;-)
<ogra> you could save your passphrase ...
<ogra> so you only have to type it once at startup....
<Nafallo> ehm... that's what seahorse-agent does indeed :-)
<LordSavage> hub?
<ogra> Nafallo, thats what evo does by default ... no need for seahorse agent
<hub> LordSavage: I should upload them to REVU
<hub> LordSavage: but I currently have issues installing them
<Nafallo> ogra: baah. I rather have seahorse-agent for evo, gajim and debsign :-).
<LordSavage> hmm
<LordSavage> ok
<LordSavage> i wish you luck @hub
<LordSavage> i'll go home now
<LordSavage> work is finished
<LordSavage> :D
<LordSavage> cya
<LordSavage> n germany we say "Feierabend"
<LordSavage> ^^
<\sh> re
<siretart> \sh: I patched newmerge.py
<siretart> \sh: changes pushed, please recheck
<\sh> bzr archive?
<siretart> yepp
<slomo_> oh no
<siretart> ?
<slomo_> x86 really needs some more registers :(
<siretart> hrhr
<slomo_> "can't find a register in class 'GENERAL_REGS' while reloading 'asm'"
<slomo_> grmpf
<\sh> siretart: wuhuu
<siretart> \sh: happy now? - or horribly broken?
<\sh> siretart: i love u so much :)
<siretart> :)
<\sh> siretart: it works like a charme
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> \sh: please mention it on the wiki page if you are happy with the mails it spits out
<\sh> siretart: i will
<\sh> trying to finish my dinner
<slomo_> siretart: hmm, i can workaround this problem when doing -fomit-frame-pointer... is this allowed to be added to CFLAGS for packages?
<siretart> slomo_: this gains you an extra register, I don't see objections to add it if it makes a package build
* siretart goes searching for dinner
<slomo_> it makes debugging harder
<LaserJock> is anybody working on the wxwidgets2.6 merge?
<slomo_> jbailey: ping?
<janimo> _slomo, what are you building?
<slomo_> janimo: ffmpeg
<LaserJock> I made a patch to wxwidgets2.6 for breezy (Bug #3252) should I go ahead and include that in the merge?
<janimo> I saw similar errors with qemu, hence that b-depends on gcc 3.4
<janimo> maybe the same is neede here?
<slomo_> janimo: seems unlikely... as there's simply one register missing :(
<janimo> gcc 4 has a bug regarding this, that's why qemu depends on it because of some magic asm it uses
<janimo> depends on 3.4 I mean
<janimo> google for qemu gcc 4 maybe it's relevant for ffmpeg too
<slomo_> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21291
<slomo_> i found this bug
<slomo_> and it's fixed... hmm
<janimo> or is it just buggy ffmpeg code?
<janimo> how did get through debian then or upstream release?
<slomo_> i fixed a bug... defining RUNTIME_CPUDETECT... otherwise it compiles in what is available on that build-machine
<slomo_> and we get illegal instructions on other machines ;)
<slomo_> and this define enables some new assembly code
<\sh> siretart: how long does it take to see the bugs send by this script in malone?
<siretart> \sh: I think there is a cronjob every 5 min on lp side
<\sh> siretart: ok...
<\sh> i send two now...lets see what comes back
<siretart> you'll get an email back from lp
<LaserJock> if I make changes to the MOM created source package, do I need to bump the ubuntuX number?
<\sh> siretart: and we need a local sendmail right?
<\sh> LaserJock: no
<\sh> LaserJock: incoporate your changes
<\sh> and do a dch -a
<LaserJock> \sh: k
<\sh> LaserJock: and attach a debdiff from the old ubuntu version to the new merge version
<\sh> LaserJock: to the bug
<LaserJock> \sh: old ubuntu version as in the one that is in dapper right now?
<\sh> LaserJock: yes
<slomo_> \sh: bad idea... when it's new upstream you will get all upstream changes too
<LaserJock> \sh: ahh, ok
<\sh> slomo_: oh shit...yes
<\sh> LaserJock: forget it
<LaserJock> \sh: so what should I debdiff to?
<\sh> LaserJock: attach the diff.gz only
<LaserJock> \sh: ok
<\sh> LaserJock: after u did your changes and do a debuild
<azeem> or do interdiff -z <old>.diff.gz <new>.diff.gz
<azeem> possibly adding a -p1 if there are bogus differences
<siretart> \sh: newmerge.py expects that /usr/bin/mail works, yes
<LaserJock> azeem: great, now I'm going to confuse myself ;-)
<siretart> this means a working postfix/exim4/ssmtp/nullmailer/whateversetup should be fine
<slomo_> LaserJock: or do a diff -Naur old-debian-directory new-debian-directory
<slomo_> ;)
<LaserJock> wonderful
<LaserJock> now, what is the dropped.patch telling me?
<\sh> siretart: i have to mention it...when I get the mails back
<slomo_> the parts which couldn't be applied automatically
<Nafallo> what is dropped :-)
<LaserJock> from the new Debian version, correct?
<slomo_> no
<slomo_> from the ubuntu changes
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<Nafallo> LaserJock: a tip, read the file RESULT. what every file is is explained in there :-).
<slomo_> or merge the debian and ubuntu versions by hand... is easier sometimes ;)
<\sh> siretart: i don't get any mail back :(
<LaserJock> could somebody briefly look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/wxwidgets2.6/wxwidgets2.6_debian-dropped.patch from me?
<siretart> \sh: check your MTA's logfile.
<siretart> \sh: was that mail really delivered?
<siretart> \sh: what happens if you do a `echo foo | mail -s test sh@sourcecode.de`
<\sh> siretart: it works
<\sh> Nov  9 19:45:04 localhost postfix/smtp[11463] : 8C3163496119: to=<new@bugs.launchpad.net>, relay=mail.kde-coder.de[80.237.233.3] , delay=1, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 18D3318C1C5)
<siretart> check if the From: line is really correct
<\sh> from shermann@sourcecode.de which is wrong
<\sh> shit
<\sh> is mail honouring export EMAIL
<jinty> hoi ajmitch, just bugging you again about that schooltool-live package
<siretart> not sure, I configured exim to do rewriting
<siretart> in /etc/email-addresses
<slomo_> i hate malone... i added a bug and tried to search for it... nothing found
<\sh> siretart: well..this works...it's my username
<siretart> rewriting rewrites the From: address, you know
<slomo_> siretart: what is to be done when a "merge" can be synced? telling elmo? or are we collection syncs and send him a big mail weekly or something?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> now it works
<\sh> shitty wiki howto :)
<siretart> slomo_: \sh volunteered to scan his inbox for open malone 'to be synced' bugs
<jbailey> slomo_: Back from lunch, now hackig, 'sup?
<slomo_> \sh: what's your search string? ;)
<slomo_> jbailey: is compiling with -fomit-frame-pointer on x86 a solution when it fixes a FTBFS because of too few GP registers?
<slomo_> jbailey: it fixes the compilation... but does it have side effects?
<\sh> grep -H "merge new debian version" /var/spool/imap/users/s/src_0001/Disitribution/Ubuntu/malone-bugs/*
<slomo_> \sh: so nothing sync specific?
<\sh> slomo_: after that...checking for Status: to be synced
<slomo_> \sh: ok, i've done it wrong then... ;) *fix*
<\sh> siretart: jetzt laeuft das scfript
<\sh> oops
<\sh> siretart: now the script works perfectly
<\sh> :)
<\sh> siretart: but we have to change again something....first...we have to check if the merge stuff from MoM works...and if we need them
<\sh> siretart: so...sometimes it's good to update the bug afterwards
<\sh> let me check if I can do something for updating bugs :)
<\sh> bradb_: welcome :)
<\sh> bradb_: can u provide a mailinterface to malone for searching bugs with special status and stringsearch in the description?
<\sh> bradb_: and yes I know, i'm insane
<siretart> \sh: sure, just fix it in your branch and I'll merge from you
<\sh> siretart: public_html on tiber?
<jbailey> slomo_: It could make debugging *really* suck.
<bradb_> \sh: I dunno. It's unlikely that kind of thing would be on the radar in the next six months though, tbh.
<siretart> \sh: I don't mind, anything http accessible is okay for bzr
<\sh> siretart: i mean did u enable public_html in homedirs?
<\sh> bradb_: but the email interface is very nice..thx for the work on it
<lfittl> How do I use pbuilder with a package that build-depends on a package that is not yet in the repositories (and therefore not available to pbuilder..)?
<bradb_> \sh: I'll forward your praise onto the relevant people (BjornT and the sab :)
<siretart> \sh: sure, you just used it to branch it ;)
<bradb_> It's good to hear that you like it.
<\sh> lfittl: add a local apt get repository to your local pbuilder
<slomo_> jbailey: ok, the gcc manual isn't that explicit about it ;) but i'll do it for now until it's fixed upstream... i don't want to mess with their assembler code, i don't even understand the C version of it ;)
<lfittl> \sh: is there any documentation about local apt get repositories?
<\sh> lfittl: yes
<\sh> lfittl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalAptGetRepositories
<lfittl> thanks :)
<\sh> lfittl: if it's to complicate...please blame me
<Nafallo> \sh: no. let's blame slomo :-).
<\sh> Nafallo: na.I wrote it the first time...i think
<\sh> incoming = /home/shermann/archive/mini-dinstall/incoming
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> yeah thats me
<slomo_> i never touched it :P
<\sh> hehe
<Nafallo> slomo_: so? ;-)
<\sh> confusion
<Nafallo> no confusion here, just trying to find something to blame slomo for :-P
<\sh> hahaha
<slomo_> Nafallo: blame me for thinking the merge procedure is too complicated currently ;) it takes more time to get everything right than to test and/or merge the package :P
<Nafallo> slomo_: I agree :-). I want MOM to file bugs ;-).
<\sh> slomo_: wait an hour...and we have a nice tool to work with :)
<slomo_> \sh: perfect :) i'll do some other stuff until then ;)
<\sh> siretart: did again an awesome job for a nice python tool
<slomo_> hehe
<LaserJock> if a package no longer needs any patches should I remove the directory and the include from debian/rules or should I just remove the patch from debian/patches?
<slomo_> LaserJock: make the delta between debian and ubuntu as small as possible
<lfittl> \sh: Local repository creation worked without any problem, thanks again :)
<\sh> lfittl: you're welcome
<\sh> siretart: ug...NamedTemporaryFile and os.unlink...i got some good errors
<slomo_> siretart: i'm merging mplayer atm... do we still want the mplayer-amd64 metapackage?
<slomo_> siretart: i guess yes?
<\sh> siretart: unping..my bug
<siretart> slomo_: for backporting reason I'd say yes
<\sh> siretart: bzr merge http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<slomo_> siretart: ok
<siretart> slomo_: that way, it would be easier for people adding breezy-backports in a few months
<\sh> siretart: i added an update command with -u/--update and a -b/--bug <bugno>
<\sh> siretart: so now we can update bugs as wlel
<siretart> err, I merged, but there wasn't any changes?
<\sh> gr
<\sh> didn't commit moment
<siretart> :)
<\sh> now
<\sh> and please don't look on my commit statements in the merge...a lot of grr and grmpf
<\sh> it's apple style commit comments
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> but it works
<Amaranth> apple style?
<siretart> I'd perhaps split new and update code in 2 seperate functions, but its a small tool, it's okay
<\sh> Amaranth: did u ever see the khtml update comments?
<\sh> siretart: it's quick and dirty
<\sh> siretart: lets make an gui tool out of it :)
<\sh> s/an/a
<Amaranth> \sh: ok, but everyone does that :P
<siretart> hrhr
<Amaranth> I think it was tberman who does the best ones, a GNOME guy. :)
<siretart> \sh: it is CLI by purpose
<siretart> pushing your changes
<\sh> Amaranth: but apple has more fcks in it
<siretart> good night everyone
<slomo_> gn8 siretart
<\sh> good night siretart
<\sh> siretart: great work btw
<Amaranth> \sh: Do they have any bits of code with comments like "UGLY BUT IT WORKS SO DON'T FUCKING TOUCH IT!!!"? :)
<\sh> Amaranth: yes...and they have "SHIT CODE"
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> and that crap actually makes it into khtml upstream?
<Amaranth> usually comments like that are a good sign of a logic error
<\sh> ok
<\sh> siretart: I
<\sh> i'm publishing your work :)
<\sh> if anybody wants to deal with beta software :)
<\sh> for the merges and syncs
<\sh> please do the following :)
<\sh> 1. vi /etc/apt/sources.list
<\sh> 2. add deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./
<\sh> 
<\sh> 3. apt-get update
<\sh> 4. apt-get install bzr bzrtools bzrk
<\sh> 5. mkdir ~/launchpad/
<\sh> cd ~/launchpad
<\sh> bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<\sh> inside motu-tools there is a small tiny but good tool
<\sh> it's called newmerge.py
<\sh> to generate a new merge bug use this:
<\sh> ./newmerge.py -n <sourcepackage>
<\sh> u will be asked to export LPID which means LPID == Launchpad ID
<\sh> u need to update your local mail transport agent to work properly to send out mails
<\sh> if u have postfix, ask me
<\sh> if u test a source package which and it needs a sync, and u already filed a bug towards malone
<slomo_> \sh: does it only allow local MTA?
<\sh> slomo_: yes
<\sh> slomo_: for a work of 20 minutes...it's good
<slomo_> \sh: oh no :( hmm, maybe i'll try to patch it to get remote smtp/smtps working ;)
<\sh> slomo_: why? configure your local mta to do this for y
<\sh> ou
<\sh> ok..where was I
<\sh> ah yes
<\sh> if u test a source package which and it needs a sync, and u already filed a bug towards malone
<\sh> then call this tool with
<\sh> ./newmerge -u -b <bugno> -s
<\sh> which means: -u == update bug , -b <bugno> == bugnumber of malone to update, -s == insert sync text
<\sh> you will get a small help with ./newmerge.py --help
<\sh> THIS IS EXPERIMENTAL SOFTWARE
<\sh> siretart: do u need still aptitude running?
<slomo_> damn... mplayer is evil ;)
<highvoltage> how evil?
<slomo_> it's hard to maintain the package ;)
<ogra> slomo_, regarding all the other packages you play with, youre the master of evil ;)
<ogra> (so it should be no prob for to maintain that little mplayer thingie ;) )
<slomo_> ogra: :P what packages do you mean for example? :)
<ogra> faad etc :)
<ogra> ffmpeg :)
<slomo_> oh, they're much easier to maintain ;) except transcode maybe
<crimsun> (transcode should be fixed in Dapper...)
<ogra> you touch all the evil stuff i wouldnt want get my hands contamined with, kudos :)
<slomo_> crimsun: yes, i'm searching for a solution currently... is it possible to simply create a shared library out of a static one?
<slomo_> ogra: thanks ;) but someone has to do it
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> want to see something really funny?
<ivoks> http://mirrors.playboy.com/
<ivoks> trust me, you want to see this :)
<janimo> blah, no pr0n just FOSS :(
<slomo_> lol
<\sh> why we don't want to have Seveas bug bot for universe bugs in ubuntu-motu?
<Seveas> ivoks, roflol
<Seveas> free porn - euh..
<LaserJock> can someone look at my bug on  MOTUToMerge for me (Jordan Mantha)?
<Pygi> Hello
<Pygi> can anyway point me what should I do to become a MOTU? Thank you :)
<Seveas> Pygi, wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Seveas> read, follow links, find some place to fit in and contribute :)
<Pygi> gah, I am currently an administrator in UbuntuInstantServer Development team
<Pygi> and that's why I need to become MOTU, so I could upload packages :)
<\sh> LaserJock: work further on...the MOTUs will have a look on the MOTU Hopeful bugs later along this week..don't worry...we will come back to u :)
<LaserJock> \sh: just didn't want it to get overlooked, that's all ;-)
<Pygi> ok, thanks anyway Seveas, I see you'r busy :)
<\sh> LaserJock: u won't :)
<\sh> Pygi: to become a motu u have to do a couple of things ... fixing bugs, doing merges etc. and first of all, become an ubuntu member
<\sh> Pygi: the best thing is, to work with us on our transitions and doing some bugfixing works
<Pygi> ah,ok, thanks :)
<Pygi> so gimme some task I should do :)
<\sh> Pygi: check the topic :)
<\sh> hmmm...implemented another function for newmerge.py
<Pygi> \sh: Maybe I could make a logo for Motu :)
<\sh> Pygi: we have one
<Pygi> gah, ok :P
<\sh> Pygi: it's castle greyscull with He-Man in front of it
<Pygi> \sh: Gah
<Pygi> \sh: no comment
<LaserJock> \sh: why isn't it on MOTULogo ?
<\sh> LaserJock: hehe...just joking :)
<LaserJock> \sh: seriously, we should have something
<ajmitch> "we don't have a drinking problem" ;)
<LaserJock> \sh: a buddy of my keeps laughing at me everytime I say masters of the universe
<\sh> ajmitch: *g(
<LaserJock> he says he gets the He-Man theme song stuck in his head ;-)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> damn xchat
<Pygi> gah :P
<lfittl> Is it ok to ignore this lintian error? "E: cafix_0.2.0-0ubuntu1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file dapper"
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Pygi> hi
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<\sh> siretart: u can merge my motu-tools branch into yours...I added a close bug function
<sistpoty> ' \sh: motu-tools?
<\sh> sistpoty: quick dirty python hack from siretart to file bugs against malone via mail interface
<sistpoty> useful for merging?
<\sh> sistpoty:
<\sh> hyes
<\sh> right now it's only written for merging bugs in malone
<sistpoty> cool... may i get these? (where?)
<\sh> latest version bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<sistpoty> thx... I'll take a look
<\sh> latest development version: bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<\sh> shermann branch commited now
<minghua> hi LaserJock
<sistpoty> ' \sh: how can i checkout this bzr repo? i just tried "bzr pull http://...." but that bailed out :(
<Seveas> about the motu logo, how about something like http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/i4268 :)
<\sh> sistpoty: bzr branch
<sistpoty> ah, thx
<\sh> sistpoty: use the daily bzr snapshot from jeff baily
<\sh> sistpoty: do u need the repos url?
<\sh> sistpoty: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./
<\sh> sistpoty: bzr rocks...and was quite interessting to talk to some bzr devs...
<sistpoty> yes it rocks :)
<sistpoty> will get the newest version asap ;)
<\sh> oh wow..this the best way to work
<\sh> laying in bed, ssh to my nc6000 and compile there the packages
<sivang> \sh: heh
<sivang> rehi all
* sivang is still jet lagging. fell asleep right after work and just not woken up
<Seveas> \sh, nc6000 is a nice laptop
<Seveas> I have one too :)
<\sh> Seveas: yeah...is quite fast...better to compile stuff
<\sh> Seveas: but working from the portege r200
* Seveas copiles on his old amd900 machine :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-15
<LaserJock> is there any good way of seeing the status of the merge?
<\sh> LaserJock: buildwise?
<\sh> or what status
<\sh> LaserJock: u r not member of the MOTU team in launchpad?
<LaserJock> \sh: no, just a wannabe
<\sh> LaserJock: MOTU team != Ubuntu Dev team
<LaserJock> \sh: what do you mean then
<tseng> motu team is an open group
<tseng> for bugtracking
<\sh> LaserJock: give me your LP id
<tseng> as far as LP is conserned
<LaserJock> \sh: ok, my LP id is mantha
<LaserJock> btw, is it possible to add a team to the motu LP team
<\sh> LaserJock: yes it is
<\sh> LaserJock: are u subscribed to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> \sh: yes
<\sh> ok...so u see the merge bugs
<\sh> search for merge new debian version
<\sh> in your mail client
<\sh> then u have all bugs and all status
<LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I was more about number wise and overall progress
<\sh> LaserJock: oh no...that's our problem
<\sh> LaserJock: but this is not really the problem
<\sh> LaserJock: btw...there was a small competition  for breezy....if you take over my uploads during merges and transitions...u r the next one who will be mentioned in dholbachs motu report..and you will be the MOTU of the month :)
<\sh> LaserJock: so go and rock hard :) I'll upload your packages..promised
<\sh> LaserJock: in your name and my signature
<\sh> wtf..
<\sh>  -> Considering  libjack0.80.0-dev
<\sh>    -> Trying libjack0.80.0-dev
<\sh>        -> Cannot install libjack0.80.0-dev; apt errors follow:
<\sh> who stole libjack0.80.0
<minghua> \sh: if I've asked elmo and requested a sync on #ubuntu-devel, but nothing happened (for 20 hours), what should I do?
<\sh> minghua: are u motu?
<\sh> minghua: with upload rights?
<\sh> minghua: if not..elmo doesn't listen
<minghua> \sh: no
<minghua> okay I see the problem
<\sh> minghua: what package?
<minghua> so can anybody request it for me?  it's libmath++ 0.0.4-2
<minghua> all breezy changes were made by me (c++ transition), and they can be dropped
<minghua> I've tested building the unstable package in dapper
<\sh> minghua: is it on the merge list?
<minghua> \sh: what list? the ~scott/ongoing-merge/ list?
<minghua> \sh: I can go through the launchpad bug -> wiki page procedure if that's easier for MOTUs to follow
<\sh> minghua: yes...the urls in the topic
<minghua> \sh: yes, it's in that list
<minghua> \sh: that's the reason why I'm looking at it
<\sh> file a bug in malone (read how to track merges on the wiki) for this package
<\sh> pls
<minghua> \sh: okay, I'll follow the procedure in topic, then
<\sh> minghua: please...it
<minghua> \sh: thanks for the guidance
<\sh> 's easier for us..random request are nice, but not in this timeframe...because we have to get all the merge packages in
<LaserJock> crap, a water leak just started above my desk
<tseng> woo, new networkmanager
<LaserJock> man, changelogs in spanish are hard to read ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: well..yes..that's why we TRY to write in english :)
<LaserJock> \sh: oh well, nice to have http://babelfish.altavista.com/ around
<\sh> LaserJock: but why are the changelogs in spanish?
<LaserJock> \sh: it is partially in spanish. http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/wordtrans/wordtrans_debian.patch
<\sh> nice
<\sh> and I smoked a 25 cigarettes in less then 6h...that's world record for me
<LaserJock> wow, I couldn't get through 1
<LaserJock> ok, so if the merged.patch looks ok and it builds fine what should I put in the bug report?
<\sh> LaserJock: pending upload
<\sh> LaserJock: and put it on MOTUToMerge
<LaserJock> \sh: but I don't need to include scott's package or anything. It is enough to just say it is all good.
<\sh> did u include the url of scotts merge directory? if yes..thats all
<LaserJock> ok
<sistpoty> i got a really n00b question: where can i set which email-addy mail uses?
<\sh> LaserJock: and it would be nice to have a diff/debdiff etc. from u with the changelog changed to your name
<\sh> sistpoty: postfix?
<tseng> sistpoty: context?
<sistpoty> mail should come from exim4
<\sh> sistpoty: rewriting
<\sh> argl...ask siretart he is the exim4 expert
<sistpoty> no, actually not rewriting
<sistpoty> just sending mail with /usr/bin/mail
<sistpoty> as in motu-tools *g*
<sistpoty> args... mailx that is
<\sh> sistpoty: yes..but exim4 does the "send to relay" and "rewriting"
<\sh> of your email address including your username
<tseng>      -a      Specify additional header fields on the command line such as "X-
<tseng>              Loop: foo@bar" etc.  You have to use quotes if the string con
<tseng>              tains spaces.  This argument may be specified more than once, the
<tseng>              headers will then be concatenated.
<tseng> -a From: motu-tools@localhost
<tseng> X-From
<sistpoty> tseng: thx... will try that
<tseng> no X
<tseng> looking at a mail header
<tseng> From: Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>
<LaserJock> \sh: what do mean about the changelog
<\sh> LaserJock: u want to be recognized as the guy who checked the package
<sistpoty> tseng: did not work :(
<tseng> sistpoty: no?
<\sh> LaserJock: so change to changelog (man dch)
<sistpoty> tseng: 2005-11-10 01:26:18 1Ea0Gg-0006Hs-A5 <= stefan@localhost.localdomain U=stefan P=local S=307
<LaserJock> \sh: even if I didn't have to change anything?
<\sh> LaserJock: even then
<LaserJock> \sh: wow, cool ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: it's your work dude....your compile time is expensive :)
<sistpoty> tseng: but i think i fiddle with exim a little bit... just thought there might be an easier way
<tseng> i know ive done it
<tseng> in my crontab at work
<tseng> but i cant get it here
<tseng> sorry
<sistpoty> tseng: the from is correct (in the mail), maybe it's return-path
<tseng> ah
<tseng> print the full header
<sistpoty> tseng: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4277
<tseng> hm i guess it is Return-path like you said
<tseng> tried setting both?
<sistpoty> will do
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> because of the discussion in #launchpad I didn't upload my package the right way
<\sh> fck
<womble> \sh: Oh yeah, blame me.  <grin>
<\sh> womble: hehe..no it's my fault because I didn
<\sh> 't pay attention to my upload
<womble> \sh: Something about "welcome to the world of the Debian Developers"... <grin>
<\sh> womble: well...it's really a deja vu...I had the same discussion a couple of week before...with some upstream authors..but I just brought sabdfl in...who was talking to them..and actually they understood that launchpad is just a tool..if the source is release or not..doesn't matter, as long it is free as in free beer.
<\sh> womble: that is the change at least..software should be free as in free speech..but has to be free as in beer ,)
<womble> \sh: Let's move this back to #launchpad, shall we?
<\sh> womble: nah..I have some work to do...and I'm tired of this
<\sh> womble: and my work is free as in free speech and free as in free beer :)
<womble> \sh: As it should be.  <grin>
<\sh> womble: no...work should be oh no,..my work...i don't go any further....
<crimsun> LaserJock: wxwidgets2.6 diff (#4049) tweaked & approved, building
<sistpoty> tseng: i'm really dumb... all I needed to adjust was /etc/email-adresses *g*
<sistpoty> just found that after looking into exims rewrite rules
<LaserJock> crimsun: thanks
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get home now. Thanks for all the help today guys. Hopefully I can get a few more merges done tonight
<\sh> crimsun: we missed u at ubz
<crimsun> \sh: unfortunately I have a prior contract
<crimsun> \sh: hopefully UBZ was great :-)
<\sh> it was .. but thinking about my private life interfering even thousand miles away...
<crimsun> ah yeah
<zakame> hi all
<\sh> moins zakame
<zakame> I was just about to ask how to do the mom merging, but the /topic stopped me ;) thanks!
<sistpoty> wohoo finally newmerge.py really rocks :)
<\sh> sistpoty: my version does update and closing as well
<sistpoty> ' \sh: I just tested new and update :)
<\sh> but closing is a bit strange..cause it needs bug number and a source package as a product
<sistpoty> hm... if I want a package synced, is it still ping elmo?
<\sh> sistpoty: yepp
<sistpoty> k
<\sh> siretart: but..please...before u work on a package file a bug
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> sistpoty: i mean
<\sh> sistpoty: and if it needs a sync..then update the bug with -u -b <bugno> -s
<sistpoty> that's what i just did ;)
<\sh> now grab my source
<sistpoty> he, I already have it :)
<\sh> and if it actually build...do -c -b <bugno> <sourcepackagename?
<\sh> sistpoty: would be nice to have a documentation for it
<sistpoty> hehe, actually I'm just thinking one step further... a wrote very small MoMParser this evening
<sistpoty> so this could be displayed by a little web-frontend
<sistpoty> the hard part will to somehow get the mails from malone and parse these to update stats
<\sh> sistpoty: ah no
<sistpoty> no?
<\sh> mom is bad...it will be included in hct
<\sh> sistpoty: I want to see it as a replacement to debian bts cli tool
<\sh> used by cli or with gui
<sistpoty> actually I'm not thinking of a very big thing... just list what packages are left to merge with a link to scotts dir and a status field
<zakame> reportbug?
<\sh> sistpoty: well...u didn't see the hct demo of scott :)
<\sh> ROCK I say
<\sh> zakame: yepp
<\sh> sistpoty: if this works....u don't need mom anymore :)
<sistpoty> sounds good :)
<\sh> sistpoty: mom is part of hct
<\sh> sistpoty: so i hope for dapper +1 we can use it
<sistpoty> ok, than I won't put efforts in this
<\sh> sistpoty: write a little documentation to newmerge.py :) that would be great :)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: but not before sleeping ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: hahaha
<zakame> hmmm, can bugs in debian/changelog close malone bugs?
<\sh> no
<zakame> I was missing that kind of functionality from the debian bts :)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: should I put the docs on MOTUToMerge?
<\sh> sistpoty: yepp...
<\sh> and obvious in a branch of motu-tools :)
<sistpoty> ' \sh ok... then I'll start now... but if it's only bullsh*t, that's because I'm tired ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: make a branch in your public_html on tiber.. i'll merge it then
<sistpoty> ok, will do
<zakame> wb hunger
<\sh> sistpoty: rock :)
<Kyral> Yo peoples!
<zakame> hi Kyral
<\sh> crimsun: if u want to use newmerge.py get bzr running and grab our branch :)
<Kyral> The best part about upgrading Emacs?
<crimsun> \sh: will read scrollback
<Kyral> Having every plugin re-bytecompile :P
<zakame> Kyral: w00t
<\sh> ok last package today
<\sh> aeh not today..but for this morning :)
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> hi \sh
<\sh> moins whiprush
<LaserJock> \sh: so how many is that for you today?
<whiprush> I take it you guys had excellent smoking bofs in my absence?
<\sh> whiprush: for sure
<\sh> but it was cold
<whiprush> heh
<\sh> LaserJock: not much
<\sh> 8 packages..thats a bad run
<LaserJock> \sh: seems like a lot. Does anybody know how many there are total?
<\sh> 1300?
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> no joke
<LaserJock> \sh: in universe? holy cow
<Kyral> And how many weeks before the first week
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> freeze?
<\sh> 6 weeks?
<Kyral> Okay, is it safe to say that we are fucked?
<LaserJock> Kyral: heck no
<LaserJock> Kyral: we are the MOTU(and wannabes) ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> Kyral: u don't know what we did for breezy, do u?
<\sh> several transitions..etc.
<Kyral> yah
<\sh> but not so tightend times
<\sh> but now...this is really our time...lets show the world...that we're better then gentoo redhat and suse alltogether :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Yah as soon as I get the hang of this "merge" thing
<\sh> Kyral: i mean it...for me this is the second run over universe..and this time it's all easier somehow..
<LaserJock> Kyral: just think, by dapper+2 we might know what we are doing ;-)
<\sh> Kyral: to do the first steps is the difficult thing to do....but when u know what you can do and how...u will walk over the water...like jesus...
<zakame> \sh: w00t
<\sh> and the best thing is...u r allowed to do mistakes
<\sh> and believe me...i did a lot of them
<LaserJock> \sh: what, I thought we were flogged for mistakes
<\sh> flogged?
<\sh> no
<\sh> why
<\sh> this is universe...
<zakame> hihi
<\sh> u will have bad nightmares...
<\sh> because u fcked up millions of users
<\sh> but flogged? no
<\sh> u only have to close the bugs
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> it's just like being on tv
<LaserJock> live tv
<\sh> ok..now its time to go to bed
<sistpoty> sh: /home/sistpoty/public_html/motu-tools
<sistpoty> + \
<sistpoty> ;)
<zakame> sweet dreams \sh
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<LaserJock> cya \sh, thanks for all the help
<crimsun> it's actually pretty simple. The first thing you do is read REPORT. Then you read each of debian.patch and ubuntu.patch and compare it to merged.patch. If everything that was in ubuntu.patch has been subsumed by debian.patch, then merge.patch should be trivial/tiny. In that case, you ask for a sync. Otherwise, you'll have to merge.
<\sh> sistpoty: aeh
<\sh> sistpoty: it's not a branch
<sistpoty> hm?
<zakame> crimsun: ooh
<\sh>  bzr merge http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistopy/motu-tools/
<crimsun> the key is that we always prefer to sync from Debian if at all possible
<\sh> argl
<\sh> na its not
<sistpoty> ' \sh I did this with "bzr branch /path/to/your/repo motu-tool" (in public_html)
<\sh> sistpoty: hmmm
<\sh> strange
<sistpoty> I suppose I can bzr add/bzr commit just regularly in a branch?
<\sh> on tiber it worked
<sistpoty> maybe because I used direct path to your repo instead of http://...
<\sh> no
<\sh> i merged it now into my branch
<\sh> this works
<sistpoty> cool :)
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed as well gn8 everybody
<zakame> dreams sistpoty
<\sh> good night sistpoty
<\sh> and thx
<sistpoty> np ;)
<sistpoty> thx for writing it ;)
<\sh> siretart: u can merge ~shermann/motu-tools/ with close function and documentation of sistopy
<\sh> ok...good night dudes.
<\sh> cu later this day
<sistpoty> cya
<LaserJock> is it a bad sign when the debdiff is bigger than the .orig.tar.gz ?
<crimsun> LaserJock: ugh. That should rarely, if ever, happen.
<crimsun> I can think of autotools-dev pulling in config.{guess,sub}
<LaserJock> wfmath
<crimsun> that's about it
<LaserJock> the debian.debdiff is 493Kb
<crimsun> does it involve config.{guess,sub}?
<jdong_> hey, why's lilypond so out of sync with Sid?
<LaserJock> although, that isn't as terrible because it is the diff between Debian versions, but it does seem to be mostly automake
<crimsun> jdong_: because it ftbfs probably
<crimsun> I'll look at it after I finish this merge
<crimsun> jdong_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/lilypond/2.6.3-9/
<crimsun> (just as I said)
<crimsun> it's quite simple. It ftbfs due to mftrace being older than required.
<jdong_> heh, looks like dependency's name's changed
<jdong_> oh, yeah, I see
<jdong_> anything we will do to remedy the situation?
<jdong_> there are people getting restless without their lilypond
<jdong_> like push through a new mftrace?
<crimsun> I'll fix mftrace now if possible, then fix lilypond
<jdong_> thanks man
<jdong_> can you bug me via e-mail (jdong@ubuntu.com) once you get the fixes uploaded?
<crimsun> mftrace is on our merge list, so we would have gotten to it regardless
<crimsun> I can, or you can monitor dapper-changes
<jdong_> ok, thanks
<jdong_> and I'll probably subscribe to dapper-changes once I'm ready for all the e-mail goodness
<crimsun> you can just read the thread view
<crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/thread.html
<jdong_> mmkay
<jdong_> probably similar explanation for kmymoney2?
<jdong_> nope, yet to be built
<crimsun> haven't looked. I'm merging mftrace atm.
<jdong_> k
<minghua> is there a channel for backports or should I just ask jdong_ here? :-)
<jdong_> kmm merged into sid sunday
<jdong_> we dont' have a backprots channel
<jdong_> only a mailing list and forum
<jdong_> feel free to ask if you'd like
<minghua> ok, jdong_, what should I do if I want to help get SCIM stuff in backports?
<Kyral> Can someone take my VLC packages away from me :D
<Kyral> oh, best crashes
<minghua> jdong_: request on forum?
<jdong_> minghua: request on forums and I'll take a look
<minghua> jdong_: ok, will do
<jdong_> Kyral: aah, yes the VLC madness.... explain that via the mailing list... I'm up for a good story :)
<Kyral> Ask crimsun
<Kyral> I just backport it
<crimsun> uh
<crimsun> if anyone can't be bothered to read the changelog...
<jdong_> Kyral: so it builds from source?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I can do a fresh build right now if you want
<jdong_> Kyral: so you want vlc from dapper to breezy?
<Kyral> jdong_, I have Dapper
<Kyral> I'm offering to do it :P
<jdong_> the build system does that quite well :)
<Kyral> bah ;P
<jdong_> lol
<jdong_> alright, I'll poke elmo about it
<Kyral> I have been replaced by a shell script!
<jdong_> boy elmo will have a bunch of surprises in his inbox by the end of the night
<crimsun> jdong_: you might want to hold off.
<jdong_> crimsun: oh?
<crimsun> depending on upstream's svn madness, I may be pushing a new snapshot in within the next week.
<jdong_> mmmkay
<jdong_> so you don't feel the current snapshot is worthy?
<crimsun> but if the backport guys are foaming at the mouth, sure, go ahead
<jdong_> not us, the community's foaming
<crimsun> it's certainly worthy
<jdong_> like Kyral :)
<Kyral> I'm not foaming
<Kyral> I have it
<jdong_> lol
<Kyral> I'm just tired of the whining ;P
<jdong_> well, I'll just push one out for now
<jdong_> that should silence the whining :)
<Kyral> Speakin' of wxgtk...
<jdong_> WHOS SPEAKING OF WXGTK???????
<crimsun> no one should be, since the latest built already. http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wxwidgets2.6/2.6.1.2ubuntu1/
<Kyral> thats what I meant
<Kyral> I just got the update :P
<Kyral> God I <3 Beagle
<Kyral> if it isn't in Main for Dapper, I'm gonna smack someone :P
<tseng> it wont be
<tseng> and you dont want to smack me, i hit back alot harder.
<Kyral> yah yah
<jdong_> oh tseng, I think you mentioned mono backporting a while back?
<tseng> i did, but it seems irrelevant now
<jdong_> k
<jdong_> what about Banshee's new version
<jdong_> it seems like it wants newer mono?
<tseng> it does
<tseng> its safer to backport mono in pieces now
<jdong_> Does it make any sense to bump up Breezy mono enough to get the new Banshee going?
<tseng> well, i shoudlnt say that
<jdong_> lol, tseng, I avoid mono like the plague nowadays :)
<tseng> its very complicated!
<jdong_> yes it is complicated
<tseng> i think mono itself should backport to breezy ok
<jdong_> yes, just like Warty and Hoary ;)
<tseng> and then banshee
<tseng> hm not quite like that :)
<tseng> there were major changes
<tseng> nothing that serious this time
<jdong_> ok
<tseng> mondoc is split up
<jdong_> one of these days when I get my vmware set up again, I'll investigate that more closely
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> if i had a breezy box id try it myself
<jdong_> but definitely mono's on my list of things to watch out for :)
* crimsun totters off for dinner
<tseng> bye Daniel
<jdong_> well, I'm gonna run off too :)
<tseng> bye John
<jdong_> think I'll give elmo a break tonight
<jdong_> :)
<jdong_> see ya
* tseng sits alone in the dark
<whiprush> tseng: I'm still here for you dude.
<tseng> rock
<Lathiat> http://www.piratejesus.com/nerdcore/017.html
<LaserJock> has anybody talked to Unfrgiven lately?
<tseng> no
<tseng> he's not been ehre
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<bmonty> not bad :)
<bmonty> you?
<LaserJock> well, I'm learning how to do merges
<bmonty> cool, can you teach me?
<LaserJock> crimsun actually pushed one through today for me (wxwidgets2.6)
<LaserJock> bmonty: I don't know if I can teach you anything you don't already know
<YokoZar> well, what do you know, Wine 0.9.1 is out
<YokoZar> Better package it up...
<LaserJock> bmonty: \sh but a good guide on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<bmonty> LaserJock: maybe, I'm still trying to figure out how to read the merge reports
<LaserJock> s/but/put
<LaserJock> bmonty: me too
<LaserJock> bmonty: the key is to go for the easy ones. j/k
<bmonty> :)
<LaserJock> ok, enough merging for me today
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> Hi LaserJock
<minghua> any news from MOTU Science? :-)
<LaserJock> not much, Kyral is working on some new stuff and I have a package in REVU
<LaserJock> I am working on putting together some scripts that might be useful for us
<minghua> sounds a good start nevertheless
<minghua> sorry I don't have much time recently
<LaserJock> if you go to wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUScience it has some stuff
<minghua> I have my SCIM stuff to worry about :-)
<LaserJock> yeah, sounds like quite a bit of work
<LaserJock> minghua: do you visit the forums much?
<minghua> LaserJock: actually not at all
<minghua> LaserJock: today is the first time I go there in half a year
<LaserJock> minghua: check out http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=86329&highlight=priorities
<minghua> to post something about SCIM in breezy-backports
<LaserJock> I used to go there all the time, but since I have started working with the MOTU I find that I don't have as much time
<LaserJock> and people sometimes complain a lot and it gets me mad, so I aviod it
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks for the link, I didn't know people were talking about input methods in forums
<Kyral> OO.org isn't installing
<Kyral> s/OO.org/OO.org2
<LaserJock> from OO.org or .deb ?
<Kyral> from the Dapper repos
<minghua> Hmm, I suppose sync'ing OOo from debian would be a pain
<minghua> sid is using the package name openoffice.org for OOo2 now
<LaserJock> Kyral: unmet deps problem?
<Kyral> Nope
<LaserJock> openoffice.org2 right?
* minghua wonders why ubuntu list subscribe comfirmation mails are always categorized as spam by yahoo
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I'll show you the Apt-Get errors as soon as I finish my homework
<LaserJock> i get unmet dep errors
<womble> minghua: Because anything other than Yahoo Groups is unwanted by Yahoo... <grin>
<minghua> womble: :-)  The problem is that all list mails go through fine, just the confirm subscription mails always get filtered
<womble> minghua: Yahoo probably figures that if you don't respond to the sub conf, you won't get any e-mail, and so they decided to save a few lines of code.
<minghua> womble: hmm, sounds a good plan :-)
<Kyral> Homework done...now shower then SLEEP!
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> Hoy LaserJock
<Kyral> Didja see my edit on the MOTUScience?
<LaserJock> EasyChem?
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> I think
<Kyral> its foggy
<Kyral> after doing 3 hours of coding homework
<Kyral> One of the FD devs emailed me
<LaserJock> yeah, how did that go?
<Kyral> I'll get back to him Friday night. Thursday I have an exam + Calc homework
<Kyral> I plan on attaching the Lintain data from the Debpacks
<chillywilly> anyone know why debian/ubuntu still has a pretty old slapd, etc.?
<LaserJock> Kyral: what Lintian data are you getting?
<LaserJock> nvm, I will look on REVU
<Kyral> hmm, it hasn't built the new version yet
<Kyral> LJ what say you and I go for Ubuntu Membership at the same time?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure when we will be ready, would be nice though
<LaserJock> I am still unsure of what they mean by "sustained" contribution
<Kyral> For me when FlowDesigner hits Universe, is when I'm gonna apply
<Kyral> I think my 1300+ posts to the UbuntuForums helps :D
<LaserJock> well, I don't have nearly that much
<zakame> hi all
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<zakame> ei LaserJock !
<LaserJock> Kyral: i think when my prog (plotdrop) makes it into universe I will apply too
<zakame> how's the merging? I'm looking at the list now :)
<LaserJock> zakame: still going
<zakame> about those packages with all patches applied, should I file a bug-for-merge too?
<Kyral> Someone has to explain how to merge to me in plain english...for some reason I cannot wrap my head around it
<LaserJock> ok, go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<Kyral> Me?
<Kyral> I have to go to bed. Class in the morning ;P
<LaserJock> Kyral: fine, be that way ;-)
<zakame> Kyral: yeah, MOTUToMerge rocks
<LaserJock> Kyral: I have class in the morning as well
<Kyral> Hey if I fail outta college then no more Ubuntu for me!
<zakame> Kyral: buwahaha
<Kyral> Yah, but my problem is I don't know the difference between a sync and a merge
<LaserJock> Kyral: sync means all of the reasons that we have a ubuntu version was fixed in the new Debian version
<LaserJock> that means the ubuntu version goes away and we simply take the Debian version
<Kyral> And I need to go to bed
<Kyral> g'night all
<LaserJock> cya Kyral
<slomo_> gn8 Kyral
<zakame> wb magnon
<magnon> thanks
<zakame> wb slomo_
<slomo_> hi zakame
<zakame> hmm seems a lot of universe packages just need syncing
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> but this needs to be verified for each package
<zakame> yeah... there are also some _dropped patches too that aren't reported by the log
<zakame> hmmm, I've finished reading http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/README, but I'm not getting how to fix the dropped patches... any hints?
<slomo_> zakame: look at what is dropped and decide if this is to be added again or can be left out... and verify that the ubuntu changes are still needed or if the plain debian version could be synced
<zakame> slomo_: if the changes are needed, then I have to make a debdiff, right?
<slomo_> yes
<Nafallo> GAAH!
<slomo_> Nafallo?
<Nafallo> where did \sh see debian took our changes in apt-proxy?
<zakame> Nafallo: ?
<slomo_> hehe
<Nafallo> they don't use LSB for init.d and the min_refresh_delay is 1h, not 1s
<Nafallo> this is broken
<slomo_> fix it ;)
<Nafallo> on my way
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> why is apt-proxy installed in python2.3?
<sivang> morning motus
<slomo_> Nafallo: fix it, fix it, fix it =)
<slomo_> Nafallo: maybe \sh was already asleep while doing it
<slomo_> hi sivang
<Nafallo> that's currently my assumption :-)
<Nafallo> I'm currently cleaning up the init.d a bit more than last time :-)
<slomo_> hehe
<sivang> hey slomo_
* sivang probably need to install a dapper chroot for working on mergers
<sivang> can I just go an update my breezy old one?
<slomo_> sivang: sure
<Nafallo> JOY!
<sivang> cool
<Nafallo> apt-proxy died, so I can't use pbuilder at the moment :-P
<Nafallo> to build a working apt-proxy that is ;-)
<slomo_> lol
<slomo_> Nafallo: reintroducing the chicken-egg problem? :P
<Nafallo> I donwloaded the breezy one and dpkg'd -i ;-)
<slomo_> hm, frustrating... i looked at 3 packages in revu and none is read to be advocated :(
<Nafallo> slomo: you're !alive on jabber? :-P
<slomo_> oh
<slomo_> wait ;)
<slomo_> crimsun: you're working on zsi too?
<slomo_> crimsun: i hate malone, it's impossible to find already filed bugs :(
<slomo_> crimsun: and it can't be synced! that way we will get only the python 2.3 version
* slomo_ stops merging until malone is really working
<crimsun> slomo_: hmm, I might have misread
<crimsun> I'm working from z->a, btw
<slomo_> crimsun: yes, at least the debian version only builds python 2.3 stuff...
<slomo_> crimsun: hehe, i wanted to work z->a too... but now i'm demotivated as i can't find bugs with malone
<crimsun> slomo_: ok, I'll merge it then. Thanks for double-checking.
<crimsun> I'll update MOTUToMerge with the ones I've done
<slomo_> crimsun: isn't that easy to merge... only if we want only a 2.4 package and no 2.3 one... otherwise you have to create 2 new binary packages and depend the old one on one of the new ones ;)
<crimsun> slomo_: eww, why does python2.4-zsi also depend on python-zsi?
<crimsun> slomo_: otherwise the merge doesn't look bad at all
<slomo_> crimsun: are we talking about the same package? ;)
<slomo_> crimsun: there were some dropped parts
<crimsun> yes, the -ubuntu.dropped as fairly trivial to add back
<crimsun> (#4017)
<crimsun> s/as/is/
<slomo_> hm ok
<zakame> ei hunger
<crimsun> heh, nasty. zsi is broken regardless.
<crimsun> Debian#224019 doesn't look good at all
<zakame> waah\
<siretart> morning
<siretart> puh, again so many hilights..
<siretart> \sh_away: sorry, I left aptitude running. No, there wasn't anything critical running there
<zakame> hilights?
<Nafallo> siretart: :-)
<siretart> hi Nafallo ;)
<Nafallo> siretart: morning :-)
<siretart> when is our next motu meeting scheduled?
<slomo_> dholbach: gnome-user-share is in NEW ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: yay!
<Lathiat> wootang
<dholbach> ROCK
<Lathiat> thanks slo
<Lathiat> mo
<slomo_> dholbach: and i've reviewed 3 packages... and none of them were ok :(
<dholbach> neyt time :)
<dholbach> next
* Nafallo gives slomo a comforting hug
<dholbach> that's mentoring, thanks for doing it, slomo
<slomo_> dholbach: yes but it's a bit frustrating ;) anyway, i'll do some other packages now... merging is annoying atm as i'm to stupid to search for already existing bugs in malone ;)
<siretart> slomo_: use your email client to search for bugs
<siretart> slomo_: searching for bugs in malone really sucks right now :/
* Nafallo kind of agrees with siretart :-)
<Nafallo> they have to fix that before the big move I guess?
<slomo_> dholbach: we have packages in revu which have comments what to change and which aren't fixed since > 2 months :(
<dholbach> archive them
<slomo_> ok
<tseng> dholbach: hugs
<dholbach> heya tseng
<tseng> hi
<slomo_> herzi: you got a review of valgrind-ppc... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=529
<slomo_> herzi: greetings from another ppc user ;)
<slomo_> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=569
<slomo_> dholbach: "can" be uploaded or easily fixed ;)
<dholbach> will take care of it... later :)
<slomo_> dholbach: and you had an vote already on this... then we have 2 ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=604
<dholbach> slomo, siretart: thanks for revuing
<dholbach> slomo_: right, will do
<hunger> May packages put up on revu have lintian warnings/errors?
<dholbach> hunger: if you can justify that lintian is wrong... :)
<dholbach> it happens every now and then
<hunger> dholbach: I was toying with the idea to upload my bunch of debs this WE.
<hunger> dholbach: Basically it is in a state where I think the stuff upstream has is packaged properly. I'd like to get some feedback on the packaging itself.
<hunger> dholbach: Unfortunately lintian does not like the upstream stuff too much:-)
<dholbach> hm, not to be rude or anything... but most upstream are better at coding than at packaging
<dholbach> so lintian might have a point here and there
<hunger> dholbach: It complains about errors in scripts:-)
<pef> is it possible that MoM forget something ?
<sivang> siretart: have you finished your script for filing merge bugs?
<sivang> siretart: (I assuem it greps through the mom's ouput and files a bug if status = 404)
<hunger> dholbach: Those are Suse specific from what I understand.
<dholbach> hmm
<hunger> dholbach: The "rest" is "just" missing manpages and some stuff where lintian is just wrong:-)
<dholbach> upload the source packages and we'll have a look
<hunger> dholbach: Great! I'll do this WE.
<dholbach> rocknroll
<hunger> dholbach: I'll probably run it through a pbuilder first and fix missing dependencies before doing that.
<hunger> It sucks not having proper internet access!
<dholbach> super
<sivang> dholbach: so according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge, if the web status is not 404, then this package needs work?
<dholbach> sivang: i didnt take care of the page, but let me have a look
<sivang> dholbach: thanks :)
<siretart> sivang: the current version of that helper script is in http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<siretart> sivang: have fun with it, patches welcome, btw
<siretart> dholbach: when is the next motu meeting scheduled?
<pef> is archive down ? (dput error: Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (111, 'Connection refused')
<Mithrandir> pef: the partition where uploads go seems to be filled up.
<pef> erf :)
<Mithrandir> blame me, it was one of my uploads which broke it. :-P
<slomo_> hehe
<dholbach> siretart: no idea
<siretart> Mithrandir: what in hell did you upload that big?!
<slomo_> ubuntu dvd images ;)
<Mithrandir> siretart: bazaar. :-P
<siretart> lol
<Nafallo> is that because we keep everything uploaded to put into launchpad or something? :-P
<Mithrandir> possibly
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> we won't have upload.u.c till we have launchpadlove then ;-)
<Mithrandir> I hope you're wrong. :-)
* slomo_ too
<slomo_> i want to get banshee up asp :P
<Nafallo> me to. I want screem and banshee uploaded ;-)
<Nafallo> the perfect kombination for my new speaker-layout ;-)
<slomo_> Nafallo: banshee 0.9.11 works fine here ;P
<Nafallo> combination even. we're not swedish in this channel :-P.
<siretart> well, the lp guys are still at ubz, I'm nit sure ow muc spare time they have to hack on soyuz
<slomo_> Nafallo: kombination is german too :P
<Nafallo> slomo: baah! you must have got it from us then *grin*
* Mithrandir goes to have a look at screem
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: mind making the columns in your Packages thingy wider?
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: nope, I'm on it :-)
<sivang> dholbach: have you checked the page already?
<slomo_> Nafallo: you don't even have a word which means the same like the german "termin" :P so i bet you took "kombination" from us ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: I know :-)
<Mithrandir> what does the german "termin" mean?
<Nafallo> hmm, we have the word "termin" ofcourse ;-).
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: apache reloaded :-)
<Mithrandir> yay
<dholbach> sivang: if we edited a package (added -XubuntuY) and debian has a newer version, then the package needs work
<siretart> sometimes it is a meeting, sometimes it is a date with a person, usually it is buissness related
<dholbach> sivang: you can see where the packages' versions differ, in the list
<pef> if Debian's side Standards-Version is 3.6.2, and current Ubuntu's side is 3.6.2.1, when merging, should I put 3.6.2 to new ubuntu's package ?
<dholbach> only the first 3 digits matter
<siretart> tethe german termin, that is
<siretart> damn wifi here :/
<pef> so I will change it to be closest as possible to Debian
<SloMoSnail> siretart: hehe, same here :)
<SloMoSnail> Mithrandir: did someone already answer your question?
<dholbach> the standards-version is not crucially important
<Mithrandir> SloMoSnail: which question?
<SloMoSnail> Mithrandir: "termin"
<Mithrandir> SloMoSnail: ah, yes, dholbach did.
<SloMoSnail> Mithrandir: is there a word in norwegian for that?
<Mithrandir> SloMoSnail: we have something equivalent to "meeting", but nothing with the same denotation as your "termin", no.
<SloMoSnail> Mithrandir: but you have "termin" with the meaning of the english/german "semester"?
<Mithrandir> termin can mean that, but it's more often "ETA of a child" or payments on a loan (three terms per year, for instance)
<Mithrandir> it can also refer to the amount you are to pay at the end of each term (on a loan)
<Nafallo> stated (fixed) time, due time, time of maturity etc. :-)
* Nafallo checks in the big red book :-P
* Mithrandir has a web site instead
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> you're so... TECHIE! ;-)
<sivang> siretart: does your script only helps you open a bug? it doesn't do anything automatic on the list of packages, right?
<dholbach> the list is of different origing
<dholbach> " http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ ... "
<sivang> I'm lost. I don't know where to start and what to check...
<LS|-away-> hub, are you here?
<sivang> maybe we can write a walkthrough that describes the merging work? such that new people could just follow the example package and then will be more comfortable at just starting helping without asking question and feeling stupid?
<sivang> That can help solve many uncertainties
<SloMoSnail> bbl
<sivang> Mithrandir: maybe you can help me construct such a page? ;-)
<Mithrandir> sivang: it's not mine, it's a service offered by the University of Oslo. ;-)
<sivang> what?? /me suspects he has taken somethign and doesn't remember taking it
<sivang> :)
<sivang> dholbach: what do you think about the example package idea?
<dholbach> we could add a section to that wiki page
<sivang> dholbach: I wouldn't mind doing that, if you walked me thorugh one package :-)
<dholbach> if you look at the b list, 3ddesktop seems to have had a nice MoM-run (no errors), if you now have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/3ddesktop/
<dholbach> does that help?
<dholbach> the REPORT file is a nice pointer
* sivang is checking
<Nafallo> \sh: morning. I've fixed apt-proxy :-).
<\sh> Nafallo: yeah...saw it..thx...I just didn't see it
<Nafallo> that's what I thought indeed :-).
<Nafallo> tried to lsb-ize the echos to, but they where kind of hard to get right ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> shower maybe...
<\sh> i'm laying still in bed...somehow I don't get rid of this jetlag
<Nafallo> wow
<Nafallo> I thought you had a job or something? :-P
<siretart> sivang: I think it would be sure nice to have a list which tells all open merges. Unfortunatly, I'm not sure about the best approach to get such a list
<\sh> Nafallo: I blocked the whole time for ubz :) so I'm at least until sunday not at work
<siretart> sivang: maybe when I get home I can hack something out which gives a list of open merges and run that in a cronjob on tiber. right now I'm at work and have to do other stuff
<sivang> siretart: no prob, as soon as I figure out really what such a script needs to do, I'll try hack one myself and send over to your for improvements / continue.
<sivang> siretart: we could check everypackage in the b list, and then check inside scott's dir to see if the merge was successful
<\sh> siretart: the problem is....u can grep the sourcepackage names from the list, but there is no direct way to check what is done and what not
<sivang> siretart: we just grep for "fail" or something, and the produce a corrosponding entry
<sivang> siretart, \sh : you where talking about automatically finding out what's already done and what's not?
<sivang> (as opposed to just finding out which pckages didn't merge right)
<\sh> sivang: so u have to check mom20051107c.log as well
<\sh> oh no...this is something else
<sivang> \sh: what's the relation between a,b and c ?
<\sh> until now...i didn't even know that there is a c
<\sh> ah
<\sh> first run -> everything which failed goes to the second run -> etc
<\sh> there is even a d file
<\sh> and on those lists, there is the morgue repos, too
<\sh> siretart: did u have a look over newmerge? I'll clean that up today and put everything in separate methods and sort the things a bit out...thx to sis we have a small documentation
<\sh> pef: please don't touch main packages during the universe merge...it confuses the merge run...thx
<dholbach> ?
<\sh> dholbach: main packages are tracked in bugzilla...and I don't want to see main packages on the MOTUToMerge wiki page...because only core devs can upload them..which is confusing
<\sh> and konversation is main
<dholbach> oh yeah, but pef, if you want to do main stuff, just add a comment to your debdiff (or whatever) on the bugzilla bugs, thanks
<\sh> i think i have to pull out my perl magic again...and hack something together
<Kyral> mmm.... Perl
<Kyral> I should get around to learning that
<dholbach> ... and loose your sanity
<dholbach> :)
<Kyral> I lost that when I was born my friend
<dholbach> oh well... then go ahead, learn perl :)
<Kyral> Now I would have you shoot me if I said I wanted to learn COBOL
* Amaranth is learning COBOL :(
* Kyral pulls out a magnum
<Amaranth> WRITE WS-EMP-SAL TO PRINT-REC AFTER ADVANCING 5 LINES
<Kyral> you want me to put you out of your misery? :P
<Amaranth> it's school
<zakame> hi all
<sivang> \sh: what's the morgue lists btw? (I think it has something to do with pakcages that we will not merge? )
<Kyral> Now what I wanna do is be able to do a "Hello World" in Assembler
<zakame> Kyral: nasm can help you with that ;)
<Yagisan> Kyral: I could do that (in DOS) a long time ago
<zakame> Kyral: there was also a post by wouter verhelst on planet debian a while ago about that...
<Kyral> I'm only a second year CS Student, I am not a Hacker yet.....just a Padawan
<Kyral> Though compared to the rest of my extended family, I rank up there with the likes of Linus and RMS
* \sh do some RL work....bbl
<siretart> \sh_away: not yet, perhaps I'll find tonight some time to check that
* dholbach -> lunch, walk
<zakame> Kyral: hihi
<mbreit> hi guys
<highvoltage> hi mbreit
<zakame> ei mbreit
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: pong
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: hiho :-)
<mitsuhiko> who do i have to contact to stop a shipit order?
<herzi> slomo: great, thanks
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: info@shipit.ubuntu.com, i had to ask too
<dholbach> mitsuhiko: but you can cancel your order on shipit.ubuntu.com as well
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: it's not my order :)
<dholbach> well, whoever ordered
<highvoltage> mitsuhiko: i think marelize@ubuntu.com can cancel orders
<mitsuhiko> dholbach: someone has ordered 300CDs for school but he won't be able to spread them :)
<dholbach> highvoltage: if the web thingie can do, one should use that
<dholbach> highvoltage: and it should be marilize, if at all :)
<Treenaks> just google it ;)
<Treenaks> *hides from marilize's wrath*
<dholbach> haha :)
<hub> Treenaks: ahah
<hub> hi guys
<Treenaks> hi hub :)
<highvoltage> to what keyserver should i upload my gpg keys for launchpad?
<dholbach> any, they synchronise
<dholbach> most use subkeys.pgp.net, i guess
<mbreit> libsmpeg0 was renamed in debian to libsmpeg0c2 for gcc4 (that is what we have in breezy), and they changed it back to libsmpeg0 because it does not export any c++ abi... should we change every dependencies back then?
<dholbach> rebuilding should suffice, shouldnt it?
<mbreit> dholbach: yes it should... the main question is if we really should change back to libsmpeg0
<dholbach> if the information is correct, it makes sense
<pef> mmm I've uploaded kboincspy, and no confirmation mail after 15m, is it normal ?
<mbreit> dholbach: i have it from debian #323084
<mbreit> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323084
<mbreit> we have libsmpeg0 in dapper now, the change was automatically synced
<dholbach> sounds good
<mbreit> okay, then i'll work on that...
<dholbach> mbreit: if those packages are merges, we should do the merges (they get rebuilt that way anyway :))
<mbreit> dholbach: i kno
<dholbach> :)
<mbreit> know even ;)
<dholbach> i knew you would :)
<tseng_> dudes
<dholbach> hey tseng
<mbreit> but someone should look at the packages and look _how_ the unmet deps should be resolved...
<mbreit> hey tseng
<dholbach> mbreit: apt-cache rdepends libsmpeg0c2 ?
<tseng_> hi moritz daniel
<mbreit> dholbach: it shows nothing, possibly because there is no libsmpeg0c2 ;)
<mbreit> dholbach: but there is python2.4-pygame for example which depends on that
<dholbach> right... then we need ajmitch_, the grep-ctrl magician
<mbreit> hehe
<tseng_> anyone know when dapper kernels will land?
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> tseng: probably #ubuntu-kernel :-)
<Nafallo> libsmpeg0c2 wants to have libopenal0, rss-glx and ubuntu-desktop removed.
<pef> dholbach: hello Daniel
<dholbach> hi pef
<mbreit> Nafallo: libsmpeg0c2 is the old one.... it should be libsmpeg0... and there are still some dependencies to the old one...
<Nafallo> mbreit: I know :-). that's why I wrote that :-).
<mbreit> Nafallo: ah, okay... sorry then
<Nafallo> np, just have to figure out what libopenal is now and prepare the rebuild ;-)
<pef> dholbach: I've a problem with uploads to archive, nothing seems to happens, no confirmation mail
<dholbach> pef: ask elmo in #iubuntu-devel
<ajmitch_> dholbach: ajmitch_ is not really into magic ;)
<pef> ok
<Nafallo> baah, main :-P
<Nafallo> ajmitch_: nonsense! you are the new Harry Potter :-).
<Nafallo> dholbach: deskbar-applet wants libnautilus-burn2, which seems to be missing from the archive.
* ajmitch_ is on holiday :P
<dereks-> \sh: you around?
<dholbach> Nafallo: will have a look
<ajmitch_> libnautilus-burn3 is the new one, right?
<Nafallo> dholbach: probably just a rebuild :-)
<Nafallo> slomo: ping
<dholbach> Nafallo: no, that's python-gnome-extras or something
<dholbach> yes it is
<Nafallo> dholbach: oh, right.
<Nafallo> same for gajim
<Nafallo> thought it was a bit weird :-P
<Nafallo> baah. I want a new gajim anyway, but someone need to tell me what's the best way to package svn :-P
<tseng_> svn export
<tseng_> make dist
<\sh> derekS: now
<dereks-> \sh: do you have a minute for me to pick your brain about jabber clients (again :) ) ?
<\sh> Nafallo: the best way is bzr
<\sh> yes in #ubuntu-im :)
<dereks-> \sh: ok
<Nafallo> \sh: they don't use bzr you know? ;-)
* Nafallo checks it out first :-)
<pef> dholbach: the problem is I can't be present when elmo is available :/
<\sh> Nafallo: so...? we will use it :) i'll show u how
<dholbach> pef: write him
<Nafallo> \sh: alright :-)
<dholbach> pef: james.troup@
<pef> dholbach: thanks :)
<mbreit> seems like pygame doesn't even need to be merged... sync should be enough
<mbreit> has there anything changed in the way to request a sync (i haven't been here for too much time....)
<dholbach> just tell elmo, if that doesnt work, write him
<Nafallo> tseng: thanks, that was a nice trick :-)
<\sh> siretart: ping
<\sh> siretart: do u need this aptitude running?
<tseng_> perfect
<slomo> Nafallo: pong
<Nafallo> slomo: nm :-). \sh helped me with svn packaging. we actually made it bzr packaging :-).
<siretart> \sh: I already closed it a few hours ago
<\sh> siretart: ah...i tried to install emacs21 yesterday :)
<siretart> \sh: :)
<\sh> siretart: btw....are u updateing dapper pbuilder every day or once an hour?
<Nafallo> make it every half-hour :-)
<siretart> \sh: I'm updating it manually
<siretart> when I need it
<siretart> perhaps we could install a cronjob
<\sh> siretart: so everybody in the pbuilder group can do an pbuilder-dapper update?
<slomo> hmm, what is the preferred way to add a backports-hack to one package? i.e. only use a configure option when building for breezy?
<slomo> lsb_release --codename --short == breezy?
<siretart> \sh: yepp!
<siretart> \sh: at least thats supposed to work. If it doesn't, kick/mail/ping me
<\sh> siretart: i'll try to get a cronjob running :)
<siretart> \sh: okay. please document where to edit/learn our cronjobs in the revu2 wiki (in trac)
<siretart> otherwise, we'll end up in having random systemwide cronjobs and nobody knows whats going on
<\sh> siretart: what about cron.hourly?
<siretart> \sh: I'm okay with that
* siretart is on the way home
<\sh> siretart: cu later
<siretart> cu
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<mbreit> hi sistpoty
<slomo> oh, hi moritz :)
<sistpoty> hi slomo and mbreit
<mbreit> hey slomo ;)
<sistpoty> I've come up with some tiny new tool for merging: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/
<\sh> moins sistpoty mbreit
<sistpoty> hey \sh
<mbreit> hey \sh
<sistpoty> sorry \sh, i just needed to code s.th. ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: uh
<slomo> sistpoty: perfect =)
<\sh> sistpoty: u missed "c"
<\sh> and "d"
<sistpoty> ?
<\sh> sistpoty: it's cool :)
<\sh> sistpoty: 20051107c and 20051107d .log ;)
<sistpoty> hehe, can be easily imported
<sistpoty> I'm just working on an email-parser, so that the status can be updated once a bug is filed
<slomo> sistpoty: how does it find assigned ones?
<slomo> sistpoty: and fixed ones?
<sistpoty> slomo: the plan is to parse every bug-email and update the status according to that
<sistpoty> <-- just working on it
<slomo> sistpoty: hmm... but please don't parse the content of the bugreports... that will yield to missed bugreports ;) status and title should be enough, right?
<sistpoty> slomo: yes
<sistpoty> slomo: some better plan on getting these infos?
<slomo> sistpoty: status == accepted -> assigned to the one who set it to accepted
<slomo> sistpoty: status == new -> unassigned
<slomo> sistpoty: status == fixed -> fixed
<slomo> something like that
<sistpoty> slomo: user account system doesn't work for the webfrontend (yet). so this will be much more work than to go with some regex at the bug-mails
<slomo> oh :(
<sistpoty> slomo: apart from that, this might miss merges, that are done by bug-reporting
<slomo> then setting it to assigned when accepted and link to the bugreport?
<sistpoty> slomo: then i would need the input, which bugreport that is
<sistpoty> slomo: the mails are quite easy parsable. 4 to 5 regex should be enough, to do what i want *g*
<slomo> *sigh*
<slomo> ok :)
<sistpoty> slomo: this is not meant for eternity, only for this MoM session, as \sh explained that we probably won't have MoM for dapper+1
<slomo> for dapper+1 we will have some LP magic?
<\sh> slomo: hct?
<slomo> what will hct actually do?
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/136-Its-Merging-Time.html
<slomo> thanks
<\sh> slomo: well...it's a changeset tool
<sistpoty> rock \sh
<\sh> slomo: well...if I can find scotts talk about it....
<\sh> moment
<sistpoty> but actually MoM-tool is meant to supplement newmerge.py, you still need to file bugs with LP ;)
<\sh> ok...if u want to know where MoM comes from...please have a look at this : http://video.ubuntu.com/ubz/mom-3110.ogg
<sistpoty> yay, the email-parser works
<\sh> wooo
<sistpoty> now the tough thing... I need to somehow get all universe-bugs mails through this thin
<sistpoty> +g
<dholbach> sistpoty: forward all universe bug mails in a big mail to you? :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: no... actually one by one when the come in :)
<dholbach> hmmmm :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: can you register sistpoty@revu.tauware.de to the list?
<dholbach> sure
<sistpoty> dholbach: i think, i can do the rest with exim .forward file (once i remember how the filter-stuff works *g*)
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<sistpoty> thx dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<Kyral> Whee! SNOW!!
<dredg> Whee! sunshine!
<slomo> whee! darkness :P
<dredg> man, going back to ireland this weekend is going to suck
<Kyral> I love Winter :D
<slomo> Kyral++ :)
<Kyral> Why are you incrementing me by 1?
<Kyral> ;P
<slomo> because i want you to overflow ;P no, i agreeded with your "<Kyral> I love Winter :D" :)
<Kyral> That ain't good.......XFCE just crapped out
<Kyral> the background, which means I lost my right click menu
<Kyral> brb
<Kyral> have to restart XFCE for this one
<herve> hello
<Kyral> Thats better
<Kyral> though I have to find a way to disable GDM Flexiserver
<Treenaks> Remove xnest
<Treenaks> ?
<Kyral> I don't have xnest...
<Kyral> I don't think I do
<Kyral> Nope I don't :D
<Kyral> Gah I really dislike Rox-Filer
<Kyral> How good is XFFM?
<tseng_> its worse
<tseng_> in fact, xffm might be worse than konqueror
<Kyral> Its either that or compile Thunar from CVS
<tseng_> nautilus?
<Kyral> No, I want something that integrates into XFCE
<tseng_> the others integrate exactly how?
<Kyral> Nautilus takes over for one
<tseng_> nautilus --no-desktop
<Kyral> I mean like designed with XFCE in mind
<tseng_> rox was certainly not
<Kyral> XFFM does
* tseng_ shrugs and walks off
<Kyral> Hey, its the best part of Linux. We all can do our own thing :D
<sistpoty> ping dholbach
<dholbach> sistpoty: pong
<sistpoty> dholbach: can you replace sistpoty@revu.tauware.de with sistpoty@tiber.tauware.de (revu.tauware.de doesn't work :(
<dholbach> right
<sistpoty> cool. thx
<siretart> re
<siretart> home sweet home
<siretart> hi sistpoty
<siretart> hi dholbach
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<dholbach> siretart: hellas
<sistpoty> dholbach: if it's easy for you, I could use all the mails from universe-bugs about merging (or all mails from the last 2 days is also ok)
<sistpoty> dholbach: then i can update the MoM status
<elektranox> is this warning an important one:
<elektranox> dpkg-parsechangelog: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)
<elektranox> ?
<slomo> no
<herve> you're in a build daemon?
<slomo> ignore it
<elektranox> k
<sistpoty> dholbach: forget about the mails... I just found what i need in my maildir :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: ok
<\sh> ok...guys..i'm rewriting some parts of newmerge.py and make something similar to reportbugs
<sistpoty> erm \sh: please leave ":Subject: [Bug 4012]  ace: merge new debian version
<sistpoty> args.
<sistpoty> ' \sh "merge new debian version" should be in the bugs... that's what the mail-filter will know it's a merge bug
<\sh> sistpoty: sure...I don't touch newmerge.py in the moment
<siretart> hmm. launchpad again slow...
<highvoltage> it was fast at some point? i wish i knew... i would've squeezed in some translations.
<\sh> siretart: i think they're importing the bugs now :)
<siretart> \sh: I discussed about your 'task forces' with dholbach on the phone
<siretart> \sh: he agrees that having separate groups in lp to get an better overview about workloads is a good thing[tm] 
<siretart> I'm just experimenting with a motumergers team in launchpad, stay tuned
<\sh> oh wow...
<\sh> confusion ... with more teams in the game...
<siretart> it is for having http://launchpad.net/people/teams/motumergers/+assignedbugs as complete list of open merges
<rbelem> lo people
<Kyral> goddangit
<Kyral> what a time for my school's network to be shot
<rbelem> slomo: ping
<\sh> siretart: i know :)
<slomo> rbelem: mom, i'm on the phone
<rbelem> eheheeh
<Kyral> When you do a pbuilder update, does it update everything in the pbuilder-aptcache or just the base tarball?
<dholbach> good night
<tseng_> things in the apt-cache arent installed
<tseng_> so no
<rbelem> dholbach: gnight
<tseng_> it does update the pacakges.gz, so the next build will update apt-cache
<Kyral> so if your conn is being a ****tard then its best NOT to clean the pbuilder apt-cache
<tseng_> i guess
<sistpoty> okay... the MoM-list http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py should now be up to date
<slomo> sistpoty: please handle state rejected ;)
<sistpoty> slomo: did anyone use this yet?
<slomo> sistpoty: for this one for example... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zsi/+bug/4104
<sistpoty> slomo: but for this crimsun should have filed a bug on his own?
<tseng_> gtk-sharp2-unstable  	UNASSIGNED  	-
<tseng_> sigh
<slomo> tseng: mine :P
<\sh> siretart: if u search in re.search('^Package: arkpak++') it throws a TB
<tseng_> we need package subscriptions already
<\sh> siretart: we need to escape the sourcepackage name
<tseng_> this is crap
<sistpoty> grml... will have to update some packages *g*
<sistpoty> tseng: gtk-sharp2-unstable is yours ;)
<rbelem> hey slomo
<slomo> sistpoty: no, mine ;) i'm only waiting for debian to get a new version
<slomo> rbelem: i'm back now =)
<rbelem> ;-)
<sistpoty> slomo: sorry ;)
<\sh> grmpf
<siretart> \sh: oh. you are right
<sistpoty> damn, the assignee is still wrong :(
* sistpoty looks at the scripts again
<siretart> okay. reassigning works
<rbelem> slomo: i'm having problems to with libraw1394 it is 1.2.0 but it show 1.0.0 at /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libraw1394.pc
<rbelem> then some video related packages do not compile
<spstarr_work> time to fixup the libraw1394.pc.in file? :)
<spstarr_work> or the Makefile.am or configure.ac/in or where ever the version is 'stamped' in
<slomo> rbelem: ok, i'll fix it :)
<\sh> siretart: hm..the problem is string.encode() doesn't work :)
<rbelem> spstarr_work: hum..
<spstarr_work> thats a trivial code fix
<slomo> spstarr_work: yes... but it needs to be done ;)
<spstarr_work> yea :)
<rbelem> slomo: thanks ;-)
<spstarr_work> does anyone in here work on eric?
<slomo> rbelem: oh, it's main :( \sh, do you want to sponsor me? :P
<rbelem> eheheehe
<spstarr_work> i want to bump ubuntu/kubuntu's eric from 3.7.0 -> 3.8.0 and drop eric3 (old 3.4.1 release)
<slomo> rbelem: which package to you mean?! please give me the sourcepackage... libraw1394 is version 0.10.1
<\sh> spstarr_work: can u wait until debian is finished with eric 3.8.0?
<spstarr_work> sure
<\sh> spstarr_work: i'm working with the debian maintainer
* spstarr_work looks at debian qa status
<\sh> eric3 will be removed...
<rbelem> slomo: but the source is 1.2.0
<slomo> rbelem: hum... ok
<slomo> rbelem: yes, you're right
<slomo> wtf
<spstarr_work> \sh: ok, thought so on that
<\sh> spstarr_work: because we will get as well complete NEW pyqt/pykde etc. packages for ubuntu as well...when debian maintainer is fast :)
<\sh> grmpf
<spstarr_work> ok, i have it working in dapper (hacked) up
<slomo> rbelem: hmm, why do you think it's 1.2.0?
<\sh> I need a function which can escape +
<\sh> spstarr_work: me as well :)
<\sh> spstarr_work: the packages are ready here on my computer :) but debian maintainer pinged me to work together
<spstarr_work> mv python2.3/site-packages -> 2.4
<spstarr_work> oh, ok
<spstarr_work> :-)
<\sh> spstarr_work: out packages don't have 2.3 python packages as default...we have only 2.4
<rbelem> slomo: i downloaded the ubuntu sorces and the upsteam source
<spstarr_work> yeah which is why i had some issued
<spstarr_work> issues
<slomo> rbelem: ok, i'll investigate and fix :)
<spstarr_work> \sh: given i wanted to just get it running, the porting part isn't difficult
<rbelem> slomo: ;-)
<\sh> spstarr_work: it will be hart...3.5 is reaching the main repos the next days :)
<\sh> siretart: i have to rewrite the regexp
<slomo> rbelem: hmm, we definitly have an older version... 0.10.1 is from 2004, 1.2.0 is much newer
<slomo> i'll talk to BenC
<siretart> \sh: okay, perhaps you read my chat in #launchpad
<siretart> \sh: the group 'motumergers' is ready to go!
<\sh> siretart: ok...
<siretart> \sh: lets reassign all open merges to that group
<\sh> siretart: what we could need is dilys
<Nafallo> siretart: add me :-)
<\sh> siretart: new bugs will be announced by dilys
<tseng_> why wouldnt you assign them to the person that actually made the change
* tseng_ crawls back under a rock
<siretart> \sh: what is dilys?
<tseng_> #ubuntu-bugs bot
<Seveas> auto-reporting bug
<\sh> siretart: a LP bot
<slomo> siretart: please add me too ;)
<siretart> who maintains that bot?
<Seveas> (btw: ubugtu ignores dilys so they don't start talking to each other ;))
<Nafallo> hehe
<rbelem> slomo: hum... i see a debian folder at the upstream source with almost same changelog
<Nafallo> daff IIRC?
<Nafallo> daf even
<siretart> lets test Ubugtu
<slomo> rbelem: then they haven't updated it... anyway, our version is another and we either need to update or not... i'll talk to the maintainer ;)
<siretart> I just reassigned #4121
<siretart> malone bug 4121
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4121: fluxbox startscript in gdm Fix req. for: fluxbox (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Reinhard Tartler, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4121
<Seveas> you can leave out the 'malone'
<siretart> ah, works only without that hash (#) mark. okay
<rbelem> slomo: ok, but this new  version will enter at breezy?
<Seveas> and use 'ubuntu bug' for ubugzilla and 'gnome bug' for the gnome zilla
<Seveas> or any bugzilla/malone url
<slomo> rbelem: defenitly no... dapper will get it but not breezy
<crimsun_> for MOTUs merging: keybuk brings up a good point regarding filing Malone bugs: it spams the Debian maintainer(s), too. Should we be doing this?
<tseng_> no, why are we?
<crimsun_> granted, this is the policy we agreed on for MOTUToMerge
<slomo> err... why does it spam the debian maintainers?
<\sh> crimsun_: the debian maintainers?
<\sh> crimsun_: please elaborate
<crimsun_> \sh: I'm referring to what Scott said in -devel just a few minutes ago
<slomo> omg
<slomo> why does LP do this?
<\sh> i don't have it in my backlog
<spstarr_work> sh: eric 3.5.0?!
<\sh> can someone post it?
<slomo> <Keybuk> I didn't realise people were filing merge mails in launchpad
<slomo> <Keybuk> I've specifically _not_ done that, because it also sends the mails to the Debian maintainers
<Nafallo> try it with one of scott's packages or something :-)
<spstarr_work> thats terribly old
<\sh> argl
* sistpoty is pinging keybug
<\sh> spstarr_work: kde 3.5
<sistpoty> keybuk even ;)
<spstarr_work> oh, kde 3.5 yeah
<rbelem> slomo: hum... i'll packge it to make it work at breezy, have to use many video softwares
<slomo> rbelem: it will probably break other software using it already
<slomo> rbelem: just wait for it to get into dapper... and then you can rebuild that package for breezy if you want
<YokoZar> Ok, we've got a new Wine release (0.9.1).  Should I submit that one for review or the presumably slightly more stable 0.9 package?
<rbelem> slomo: that's true
<crimsun_> YokoZar: why wouldn't 0.9.1 be preferable?
<YokoZar> crimsun: well, it might have had regressions since 0.9.
<tseng_> it might have had fixes
<YokoZar> Well, yeah, but we didn't freeze 0.9.1 like we did 0.9
<YokoZar> 0.9.1 is basically just a snapshot
<crimsun> then 0.9 it is
<crimsun> I'm not familiar with WINE's versioning scheme; I simply assumed 0.9.1 was a bugfix release against 0.9
<YokoZar> Yeah.  I hope we freeze at least one release before Dapper comes out
<YokoZar> crimsun: 0.9 was our first numbered release at all, heh
<rbelem> slomo: thanks so much
<YokoZar> one more release, that is
<siretart> sistpoty: could you please file a bug against londonlaw, just like 4154
<siretart> sistpoty: I'd like to check if I get an email about that
<YokoZar> Also, use "Wine" not WINE
<siretart> Ubugtu: malone bug no 4154
<rbelem> good night people
<siretart> hm. stupid bot
<Nafallo> bug 4154
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4154: silly bug, please close Fix req. for: londonlaw (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4154
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm on it
<\sh> hmmm...
<crimsun> ugh, I guess this means we'll have to _not_ use Malone to track our universe merges
<siretart> this is unacceptable
<crimsun> I literally have a text file to track mine, but that simply doesn't scale
<Nafallo> we will be sending mails to DDs when our patches go wrong :-P
<slomo> and it means that many DD will jump at us because they get spammed for bugs in ubuntu
<Nafallo> fun! :-)
<sistpoty> siretart: 4155
<siretart> bug 4155
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4155: another test bug (SPAM) Fix req. for: londonlaw (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4155
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> that's why you are filing them ;-)
<siretart> of course. we need to test that
<Nafallo> agreed :-)
<siretart> I didn't get any mail about 4155 yet
<siretart> lets wait a few minutes
<Nafallo> debianbts crons every 15 minutes IIRC
<slomo> well... the behaviour is broken anyway... i maintain service-discovery-applet and banshee in ubuntu and get no mail for bugreports filed on these... but a DD gets a mail when someone files a bug on the ubuntu package he maintains
<slomo> seems to be braindead
<sistpoty> well, I could hack up the MoM-tracker, so that we wouldn't need malone, but this will take one to two days... and this will make much that i wrote today useless :(
<\sh> slomo: are u debian maintainer for something ?
<YokoZar> quick gpg question: where do I find my KEY_ID?
<slomo> cowbell
<slomo> i don't get mails on that too
<siretart> sistpoty: that would mean reimplementing your own bugtracker. sorry, this is not acceptable
<slomo> \sh: and there is one bug
<siretart> still no mail btw
<crimsun> YokoZar: it'll be listed on your LP page, or you can find it using gpg
<\sh> slomo: but u are mentioned as maintainer in the orig debian package, right?
<slomo> \sh: yes
<slomo> \sh: bug 3468 wasn't send by mail to me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3468: Cowbell is unstable and generally non working Fix req. for: cowbell (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3468
<YokoZar> crimsun: Well, I mean this wikipage has an instruction I don't quite understand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKey?action=show&redirect=GetYourKeySigned
<sistpoty> yeehaa... malone is spam-free ;)
<YokoZar> Namely where it says to type a shell command to submit the key with <KEYID> but...
<\sh> hehe
<YokoZar> Needs more cowbell
<siretart> okay, so we can go on and reassign all bugs to motumergers, okay?
<siretart> any objections?
<slomo> no
<crimsun> none from me
<sistpoty> siretart: stop!
<siretart> sistpoty: yes?
<sistpoty> (for a moment ;)
<crimsun> but -- it'll spam the maintainers...
<slomo> crimsun: it doesn't spam me or siretart for our packages ;)
<sistpoty> crimsun: no it won't
<crimsun> sorry, long day
<crimsun> it spams the submitters
<slomo> yes
<sistpoty> hehe
<crimsun> no big deal, as long as upstream (DDs) aren't being spammed
<spstarr_work> good work on the LaunchPad
<\sh> siretart: did u change something on newmerge.py?
<Nafallo> \sh: merge and see? ;-)
<spstarr_work> I don't suppose LaunchPad source is anywhere?
<\sh> Nafallo: i mergede already
<\sh> and now I have errors
<crimsun> spstarr_work: publicly-accessible, no
<spstarr_work> oh :/
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<spstarr_work> there's no plans i take it
<siretart> \sh: mom
<crimsun> spstarr_work: sure there are
<siretart> biiig question
<spstarr_work> oh :-D
<\sh> siretart: in line 130
<Amaranth> some year
<siretart> should bugs to ubuntumergers appear on universe-bugs or not?
<spstarr_work> crimsun: that will be rather useful for some development @ work with our open source stuff
<siretart> we could put universe-bugs as contact address for ubuntu-mergers
<\sh> siretart: yes please
<siretart> technically no problem
<siretart> but I want to hear some opinions
<\sh> siretart: no new ml please
<Nafallo> siretart: yes
<Nafallo> doh! or question with auto-reply or something
<Nafallo> BAD BRAIN! :-P
<slomo> siretart: imho they shall appear there
<siretart> we will put universe-bugs as contact address
<siretart> sistpoty is on it
<slomo> sistpoty: i'm currently merging seahorse... what was "downgrade debian files to 0.7.8-2 due to some gconf-foo"?
<sistpoty> slomo: mom. tel
<sistpoty> slomo: the problem was that the newer packaging had some trouble with gconf
<sistpoty> slomo: so i downgraded only the files in debian-directory...
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, should be fine now but i'll verify... what were these problems?
<sistpoty> slomo: but I cannot say what exactly made the problems, nor what they were (i use kde)... dholbach tested seahorse, and he initially told me about the problems
<sistpoty> (and how to fix them *g*)
<slomo> lol ok
<slomo> i'll test it :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> we have a new gconf, maybe this fixes this
<slomo> no idea
<sistpoty> damn... my pet just bit into the cable of my stereo :(
<Nafallo> sounds... fun ;-)
<slomo> what kind of pet do you have? and who of the two got more damage?
<Nafallo> or wait. was it running?
<sistpoty> it's a chinchilla... and my music is off so no damage taken ;)
<slomo> ah good :)
<slomo> Mithrandir: thanks for syncing taglib :)
<Nafallo> puuh on the chinchilla, sorry for when you want to play music :-P
<Nafallo> slomo: he's asleep ;-)
<slomo> oh
<slomo> heh
<\sh> phew
<\sh> I'm just finished with newmerge.py versin 2
<\sh> which will have a config file, and send mail via sendmail or SMTP
<\sh> and much more structured :)
<sistpoty> you rock \sh
<Nafallo> options to auth to that TLS-only SMTP? :-)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: can it assign to motu merge team?
<\sh> Nafallo: what du u think?
<\sh> Nafallo: my name is not MS
<Nafallo> hehe. I'll take that as yes :-)
<\sh> sistpoty: sure
<\sh> sistpoty: it will have this configuration options :)
<spstarr_work> hmm, im curious if Launchpad has hooks for different SCMs?
<\sh> sistpoty: it
<sistpoty> make it the default \sh ;)
<\sh> 's one step to s/reportbugs/lpbugs/
<spstarr_work> i'd probably want to get mercurial working with Launchpad
<sistpoty> I'll update the motutomerge-page to point at http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py ... ok?
<siretart> yes!
<Amaranth> damn, a lot to merge
<Amaranth> all of this is because of c++ stuff, isn't it?
<Nafallo> gnight people :-)
<sistpoty> gn8 Nafallo_away
<sistpoty> Amaranth: in some way... but actually the c++-transition is over and since we got off-sync during the transition is one reason for the lot
<\sh> sistpoty: u rocking rocker u :)
<sistpoty> thx \sh
<elektranox> gn8 @ all
<\sh> WOOOWO
<\sh> works
<siretart> okay
<sistpoty> tseng: please use "merge new debian version" (no capital) for merge-bugs... that's what the web-tool uses to identifiy the bug as merge-bug
<siretart> http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools updated, please merge from there
<siretart> included merges from sistpoty and \sh branches
<sistpoty> damn... I can no longer bear the word "merge" *g*
<siretart> hrhr
<siretart> we can now try to mass reassign bugs
<sivang> siretart: you finished your script?
<\sh> siretart: PYTHON MAGIC RULEZ DA WORLD
<siretart> \sh: so be it!
<siretart> sivang: I updated it to assign bugs to motumergers
<sistpoty> siretart, \sh: would you like to amend the wiki-page with motu-tools?
<sivang> siretart: hrm, what are motumergers?
<\sh> i wonder what happens now..when I sync my bzr repos to tiber...lets see
* siretart checks
<siretart> sivang: http://launchpad.net/people/motumergers
<siretart> sistpoty: just a thought
<sivang> siretart: ok, now I can receive bugmail on motumergers :)
<siretart> sistpoty: could you make a 4th list with merge bugs which have status 'PendingUpload'?
<siretart> sistpoty: bugmail on motumergers go to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com, just like all universe-bugs
<sistpoty> siretart: this will take some time ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: cool
<Kyral> http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/ <<---This should lighten the mood :D
<siretart> sistpoty: okay, if it is not easy, then its okay
<sistpoty> siretart: do you think PendingUpload is necessary? you do have the link to the LP bug
<siretart> sistpoty: we could use this as indicator for ppl searching for sponsorship
<siretart> it is not that necessary
<siretart> it would be useful for our hopefuls
<sistpoty> siretart: ok, then I will defer that, and try to update the merge stats now (with all packages that my emailparser missed) :(
<slomo> sistpoty: haha, there's a new haskell-cabal in debian/unstable
* Kyral yawns
<slomo> sistpoty: let's break everything again =)
<Kyral> Hows the merge
<Kyral> Break? DId someone call me?
<\sh> siretart: merge motu-tools from tiber ~shermann/motu-tools and please have a look at the new rewrite of newmerge named lpbugs
<\sh> siretart: please move lpbugs.conf to ~/.lpbugs/
<sistpoty> slomo: come on :(
<\sh> and adjust it accordingly to your needs
<slomo> sistpoty: i'll take care of it... it's maybe even ok to sync this one... let's see
<sistpoty> slomo: cool, thx :)
<\sh> siretart: i'm working now on update and close bugs
<\sh> siretart: what was the LP name of the new team?
<sivang> guys, could you please point out if I'm wrong as to the merge process?
<sivang> I look at the lists of a,b,c...
<sivang> if a package seem faulty,
<siretart> \sh: motumergers
<sivang> I look at it's directory in scott's dir /ongoing-merge/$PKGNAME
<sivang> there I find patches that have not been applied and try to fix them, cherry pick?
<\sh> ok fixed it as well in lpbugs...but not commited
<siretart> okay, mass reassign bugs works
<siretart> now I need a list with all merges
<sivang> if this is true, then how I know a package can be just sync'd without needing ubuntu changes anymore? manually look inside of it?
<siretart> sivang: you ALWAYS have to look manually at the package
<sistpoty> siretart: what format?
<sivang> siretart: ok, but other then that - am I right for the process?
<slomo> sivang: and even if mom merged something for you... verify if the ubuntu changes can be dropped and do it in that case
<sivang> slomo: so basically MOM does nothing for us, if I follow you right...:-/
<siretart> sivang: when you have the suspicion, that all all ubuntu patches have been merged by the debian maintainer, or they are otherwise obsolete, then download the latest debian version and test that one. if that one is fine, then and only then request a sync
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-16
<siretart> sistpoty: a comma separated list would be fine
<sivang> slomo: since we nevertheless need to look manually in EACH  of the packages ever processed by MOM, which is a %$^% huge list :)
<slomo> sivang: it gets us all packages which needs to be looked at and a machine merged version which _maybe_ can be uploaded
<siretart> sistpoty: I need a list like "1234@bugs.launchpad.net, 1235@bugs.launchpad.net, 12345@...." and so on
<sivang> slomo: ah , hehe I get it now :)
<siretart> sivang: MoM is providing patches and debdiffs. I find that very useful, because I dont need to download all 3 source package and create the diffs for myself!
<siretart> sivang: in some (in fact few) cases, the mom merge is useful for uploading
<sivang> siretart: ah right, I haven't given thought for that work that we would have needed to do in case we didn't have MOM
<sistpoty> siretart: i could give you a partial list right now... but i would prefer to update my db first, and then generate a complete list for you
<siretart> sistpoty: that would be fine for me
<siretart> sistpoty: I think email would be the easiest for you to send it to me
<sivang> siretart: ok, so just take one of the packages in one of the a,b,c....{n} lists , open a bug about it that I'm working on it, and put it in the wiki page \sh wrote so nobody  stepps on my feet?
<sistpoty> siretart: I'll make you a threeliner python-script and mail you where you can find it on tiber ;)
<siretart> sivang: we are currently busily working on scripts to file merge bugs from the command line
<siretart> sivang: atm I'm reviewing \sh's code and merge that into my branch
<siretart> I will announce here when I pushed that merge to http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<siretart> sistpoty: w00t. you are my hero! :)
<\sh> siretart: it's not finished now...found a bug already
<sivang> siretart: if you need someone more to test that scripts, I can do that now
<\sh> siretart: check only if it's good enough to be published
<siretart> \sh: I see that you created a new script. is lpbugs.py intended to replace newmerge.py or accompany?
<siretart> sivang: just a sek
<\sh> siretart: it should replace newmerge.py (it's a bit cleaner I think) but it will be the first step towards a reportbugs replacement
<sistpoty> damn... while we are busy writing scripts, slomo is busy with merging *g*
<siretart> \sh: okay
<sivang> siretart: no prob, I don't want to distrub. If it's just better that I waited for the scripts to be ready, then I'll come again tomorrow and try to better help..
<\sh> sistpoty: which is ok..because I wanted to do more real coding work for this cycle
<siretart> \sh: newmerge was just a small hack anyway
<sistpoty> *g*
<slomo> sistpoty: partially... i picked some packages on which i'll work tomorrow :)
<\sh> siretart: but a good one...now have a look on lpbugs...
<siretart> sivang: you can still grab a package from this list: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<siretart> sivang: and file a bug as described on MOTUToMerge. We can reassign later if there is something wrong
<sivang> siretart: how does that page knows if I took a package?
<slomo> ok... took some packages and now it's time to sleep :) expect some uploads tomorrow... and thanks for these great scripts =)
<slomo> gn8 everybody :)
<siretart> sivang: it checks the mailing list universe-bugs. just be sure to title your bug correctly
<\sh> slomo: good night and thx for the merges :)
<siretart> slomo: good night, good work man!
<sistpoty> gn8 sladen
<siretart> sladen? ;)
<sistpoty> slomo even
<sistpoty> *G*
<siretart> \sh: if I read correctly, lpbugs.py is a refactored newmerge.py without request for sync and sponsorship, right?
<\sh> siretart: no...it's a start
<\sh> siretart: new bugs don't need sync or sponsor...because we have to file bugs first, then check if it's a merge or a sync...
<\sh> siretart: so only with the update bugs options we need sync and sponsor...which I write now
<sladen> siretart: me?  Surely you know that I never sleep ;-)
<siretart> \sh: aaah. this is a bit different workflow to what I have in mind, but you are completly right
<siretart> sladen: hrrh
<\sh> siretart: thats what I wanted to say last night..
<siretart> sladen: how was your flight home?
<siretart> \sh: ah, okay
<\sh> siretart: before we start actually merging or syncing we have to file bugs...so that everyone know what you are working on
<sladen> siretart: what flight home.  I'm still in Montreal :)
<siretart> sladen: you are? crazy guy! :)
<siretart> sladen: how's the party?
<sladen> siretart: just wrapping up.
<\sh> siretart: ogra told me, that nobody knows, why sladen flys all the time after the conferences :)
<siretart> \sh: you are completly right
<\sh> after behind whatevert
<sivang> I see all your bugs
<sivang> seems like the bug reporting script can be merged ? :)
<siretart> \sh: okay. what are you working on right now?
<sladen> \sh: no point going somewhere and not seeing the continent
<\sh> siretart: update bugs and close bugs
<sivang> sladen: true :)
<sivang> sladen: have you stayed for the launchpad week in whole?
<\sh> siretart: i think the biggest improvement is: it works now without a running mailserver...u need only a smtp relay server with or without smtp auth
<\sh> siretart: or u need a sendmail mta :) which is also working
<siretart> \sh: I've seen that. great work!
<\sh> siretart: and I cleaned up a bit...and try to use methods to reuse
<siretart> \sh: ok, so I'll work on madison-lite on tiber until you commit your changes to update bugs
<\sh> madison-lite?
<\sh> sounds interessting
<siretart> \sh: thats a small tool which gives an overview what version of a given package is in all distributions
<\sh> siretart: refining ajmitches scripts?
<sistpoty> siretart, \sh: /home/sistpoty/merge_offline/update_status.py on tiber can be used to erm update the status... if anything is wrong :)
<siretart> \sh: no, madison-lite is already in debian, but it is intended to work just on debian distributions
<siretart> \sh: I
<siretart> \sh: I'm hacking a bit to get that usable for ubuntu
<\sh> siretart: great :)
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> i need one feature...which means.i have to deal with urllib
<siretart> \sh: better defer great features
<siretart> \sh: we need something usable quick, sivang is waiting for work ;)
<\sh> siretart: it doesn't take long to implement
<\sh> siretart: but if i have this feature working...this would be awesome :)
<YokoZar> Where did elmo go?
<YokoZar> Haven't seen him in a while, need to get some packages removed from the repository ;)
<siretart> \sh: :)
<herve> night all
<crimsun> anavim: pong
<anavim> crimsun, is there an ubuntu page about kernel dev volunteering?
<Kyral> what package are the X11 development files in
<Kyral> xlibs-dev?
<sistpoty> Kyral: should be... or let's say xlibs-dev depends on the actual devel-packages (these are also split into several subpackages)
<Kyral> yah, just needed the dev files. Guy on the Forums needed to know the package
<sistpoty> then this looks like xlibs-dev  ;)
<crimsun> anavim: yeah, it's in the topic for that channel
<anavim> crimsun, oops
<tseng> Lathiat: ping
<Lathiat> tseng: pong
<tseng> service discovery applet
<Lathiat> ya?
<tseng> if i share a thingy with gnome user share, i see it
<tseng> if i click it.. is something supposed to happen?
<tseng> or is it just for show
<Lathiat> it should open up some app
<Lathiat> so if its http nautilus
<Lathiat> err firefox
<tseng> it does not.
<Lathiat> webdav probably nautilus
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> weird
<Lathiat> thees a config thign, might be abel to set some application to handle it
<tseng> not obviously.
<siretart> ok. /me needs sleep. urgently.
<siretart> good night, see you tomorrow!
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<\sh> siretart: please merge again from ~shermann/motu-tools bugfix in close action
<sistpoty> grr... why does aria not show up on "Done merges"
<\sh> yes
<\sh> why not because it's not fixed
<\sh> i send now the correct mail and it's not fixed
<minghua> hmm, what should I do if a merge is done but not shown on the status page?
<sistpoty> hm... but it should have been, at least temporarily
<sistpoty> minghua: tell me ;)
<minghua> the package in question is zhcon, crimsun has done the merge already
<minghua> sistpoty: there you go
<sistpoty> minghua: thx. will update the status
<\sh> damn
<\sh> i see the error
<sistpoty> minghua: is there a LP bug report for it?
<\sh> but
<LaserJock> crimsun: are you looking at my merge stuff?
<\sh> it's not different from the old version
<minghua> sistpoty: let me check... I just looked at the packages.u.c pages
<minghua> sistpoty: yes, 4021, but at PendingUpload status
<\sh> blame me
<\sh> it was my fault
<sistpoty> minghua: thx... i just updated... is now under "Accepted" (it's only fixed, once the bug is closed)
<sistpoty> why \sh
<\sh> \n\n missing after the subject
<\sh> i have to generate the mail header manually
<sistpoty> args... can't you use some python-lib?
<crimsun> LaserJock: url?
<\sh> sistpoty: smtplib from python :)
<\sh> fixed now
<minghua> sistpoty: good enough for me, as long as other people don't waste time on it :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> crimsun: xchm
<crimsun> LaserJock: hmm, I already merged it
<minghua> crimsun: please close your malone bug #4021 about zhcon :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4021: zhcon: Merge new Debian version Fix req. for: zhcon (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4021
<LaserJock> crimsun: lol, I did that yesterday
<crimsun> minghua: yeah, I'm going back through them and closing them after Jeff's talk
<crimsun> LaserJock: sorry for the effort duplication, I'll go ahead and update my merges now
<LaserJock> crimsun: np, just thought you were looking at my stuff. BTW, xchm is bug #4086
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4086: xchm: merge new debian version Fix req. for: xchm (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4086
<schweeb> whoa... bug bot?
<schweeb> that's nice.
<\sh> sistpoty: now try again with aria
<\sh> works
<\sh> sistpoty: the rocking german motu team :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> because of two bloody \n\n
<schweeb> (to be successful as an MOTU, you must prefix everything with rocking) :P
<sistpoty> rockingly sure, schweeb ;)
<\sh> rocking right
<schweeb> I was writing that down on my memo pad for future reference ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<crimsun> \sh: are we still filing Malone bugs for merges/syncs?
<crimsun> (due to the maintainer spammage)
<sistpoty> crimsun: we do... the maintainers aren't spammed, we checked that with lp-team
<crimsun> sistpoty: ok, thanks.
<sistpoty> crimsun: and please use s.th. "merge new debian version" as bug title ;)
<sistpoty> s.th. which contains that ;)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I did xcdroast too
<crimsun> sistpoty: have been (except that I've used "Sync new Debian version" if a sync is necessary)
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, I just saw
<sistpoty> crimsun: cool... it's only because this exact string is matched to update status :)
<sistpoty> crimsun: and otherwise i have to do it by hand :(
<crimsun> sistpoty: should I go back and change "Sync" to "Merge"?
<sistpoty> crimsun: lower-case please... if you can retitle the bug, that will help... but actually if you do from now on this will be fine
<crimsun> sure
<sistpoty> (the updating stuff actually works only for ~3 hours... so I can't blame anybody for not knowing the future *g*)
<sistpoty> wow. the reassign worked... I'm still amazed myself *g*
<LaserJock> crimsun: should those be marked fixed yet, they haven't been through the build
<crimsun> LaserJock: technically no, but I've built on all three platforms to verify.
<crimsun> LaserJock: so it's really a matter of time
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<\sh> sistpoty: i updated the README file
<sistpoty> cool \sh (rocks *g*)
<crimsun> battery's dead, back later
<sistpoty> cya crimsun
<sistpoty> ' \sh i could use your help on bzr, do you mind?
<\sh> hehe..
<\sh> sure
<sistpoty> -> query
<\sh> I wrote just the best motu announcement ever :)
<LaserJock> it is indeed
<tseng> i think your readme is wrong
<tseng> bzr export http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<tseng> do you mean bzr branch
<tseng> or get
<\sh> no i mean export
<tseng> ok
<\sh> which doesn't work
<sistpoty> ' \sh: MoM will be pleased, i guess ;)
<\sh> fixed the announcement
<zakame> hello all
<\sh> keybuk will kill me...that the MOTUs will satisfy his mom
<\sh> hehehe
<zakame> \sh: just read the mail at -devel, wtg MOTUs! :)
<sistpoty> zakame: got my mail regarding merges?
<zakame> sistpoty: just got it too, thanks for the info :)
<zakame> sistpoty: shall I change the bug titles now?
<sistpoty> zakame: ok, cool :)
<\sh> zakame: use the motu-tools now..
<zakame> ok
<sistpoty> zakame: if you could do this, it would be great ;)
<\sh> zakame: but use bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<\sh> not the export option..it doesn't work :(
<\sh> I fixed already the announcement
<zakame> ok, will do :)
<sistpoty> zakame: thanks very much... and keep up with your good work on the merge ;)
<zakame> sistpoty: I will :) thank you very much indeed too :)
<\sh> ok...last smoking bof for now
<sistpoty> good idea \sh :)
<\sh> yes it is
<\sh> cause I can't see anything anymore
<\sh> sistpoty: btw...do u have an imap account on tiber?
<\sh> sistpoty: or how do u grab the mails ?
<zakame> wb slomo_  :)
<\sh> ok..time to go to bed
<sistpoty> ' \sh: not an imap account... just take a look at my .forward file
<\sh> ah
<sistpoty> siretart told me that procmail rules might be even better... but i only know exim-filter stuff *G*
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<zakame> dreams \sh
<\sh> sistpoty: well..even exim filter stuff is unknown to me..i'm using sieve
<edoardo> hi gals, hi dudes : )
<\sh> ok...tomorrow I'm at ogras place again :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<edoardo> you guys, i'm the author of an audio conversion script named audio-convert. you might have read about it in the ubuntu forums. anyway, it's becomin' really popular lately. would anyone help me make a .deb? it's two files only, so it's probably not that hard. anyone? thankyou! : )
* \sh doesn't use the forums
<zakame> edoardo: just two files?
<edoardo> well it's a script
<edoardo> it's one file in fact
<edoardo> plus the installer
<edoardo> then it's two files : )
<edoardo> it works *really* well, and it's got progress bars, too. and it can convert many files at once into almost any format
<sistpoty> edoardo: I'm a little bit tired right now, and still have a few things in my queue... if you ping me tomorrow, I can help you with this (or review the package, if s.o. else will make one)
<edoardo> sistpoty, yeah, goin' to bed too. was just throwin' the idea in : )
<\sh> edoardo: please add it to the wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates page with a pointer where we can grab it
<zakame> eh, what does MoM stand for again?
<sistpoty> zakame: Moments of merge, i think
<edoardo> sistpoty, what gmt time can i find you tomorrow?
<sistpoty> edoardo: probably after 22:00 ;)
<LaserJock> Merge-O-Matic
<zakame> sistpoty: ah
<dooglus> heh.  I was going to ask exactly the same thing
<zakame> LaserJock: ah
<edoardo> what's universe? i'm not an ubuntu user. but many ubuntu users have asked me if i could make a .deb. and your distro sounds nice : )
<edoardo> it's like 'world' in gentoo?
<edoardo> or like 'portage' in gentoo?
<dooglus> 'universe' is all the free packages which aren't officially supported
<edoardo> can one apt-get'em?
<\sh> edoardo: no...don
<\sh> '
<sistpoty> actually everything in debian/unstable, that is not officially supported
<\sh> t compare it with gentoo
<sistpoty> edoardo: sure... just take a look at /etc/apt/sources.list (and eventually uncomment the universe entries)
<dooglus> edoardo: you can apt-get 'em if you add the universe source to your sources.list.  it's not enabled by default, but it's easily added
<\sh> or if then do it like ~x86 plus masking
<\sh> and 17000 packages of them
<\sh> and the rest is main and restricted
<sistpoty> really 17000? phew i thought it were only about 10000 ;)
<dooglus> \sh: how is that photo a picture of MoM?  or was that a joke?
* sistpoty feels more weight on the shoulders *G*
<\sh> dooglus: it's the picture of keybuks mom
<dooglus> \sh: ok, I thought it would be something like that :)
<\sh> sistpoty: well..it doesn't matter if 10000 or 17000 IT'S TOO MUCH for a hand full of people
<\sh> but now....good night heroes
<sistpoty> well, we got 1000 people of indirect upstream ;) (the DDs) *g*
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<edoardo> \sh, i don't know what to do with link you gave me : ) what could i do? : )
<zakame> hmm, doesn't that count only binary packages?
<LaserJock> stupid question, but I'm not sure how to set up the email part of lpbugs
<\sh> edoardo: add your application to it?
<edoardo> \sh, by clickin'... i see a list : )
<\sh> edoardo: get a launchpad account and edit the page..it's a wiki, add your application to the list...
<edoardo> uh, now it's a little more clear
<\sh> edoardo: if you're upstream, and we see some work on your sources, we will include it somehow
<edoardo> and when i've got it listed i come back here and talk to you about it?
<\sh> edoardo: well...we will deal with this list
<edoardo> cool! : )
<\sh> ok...good night now...REALLY
<edoardo> goodnight dude! : )
<sistpoty> edoardo: but coming back and pinging surely will surely help ;)
<Kyral> mmm
<Kyral> Scripts!
<edoardo> what's with scripts? : )
<Kyral> the Motu-Tools :D
<edoardo> scripts are cool. i like c programmin' too, and i've been writin' a lot more c programs than scripts. but it turns out the first really useful thing i wrote and published was audio-convert. which is a script : )
<zakame> hmmm, what do I do if I can't get jbailey's bzr snapshot 'coz there's NO_PUBKEY?
<zakame> I couldn't finish my apt-get update
<sistpoty> zakame: did it really not finished or just show some warning?
<Kyral> I still can't tell the difference between aa merge and a sync :P
<zakame> sistpoty: it did not finish... I got the Release and Package files, but upon rebuilding the apt db, it failed
<sistpoty> zakame: you could dl it by hand... or try with bzr in breezy
<zakame> ok
<sistpoty> Kyral: a sync is only if you need no modification to the current debian package, otherwise it's a merge
<Kyral> okaay
<bmonty_laptop> hey all
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> can some one please take a look at #1213 and possibly upload?
<sistpoty> hi bmonty_laptop
<zakame> ei bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi LaserJock, sistpoty, and zakame!
<zakame> hmm bzrtools is not in breezy, but in dapper
<LaserJock> what do I do if there is a build dep on awk?
<LaserJock> zakame: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./
<zakame> LaserJock: yup, but I'm having problems about NO_PUBKEY for the Release.gpg file
<sistpoty> LaserJock: awk actually should be on the buildds (as it's required)
<LaserJock> zakame: I did it in synaptic and it worked fine
<LaserJock> sistpoty: but awk doesn't exist as a package
<LaserJock> sistpoty: there is original-awk
<zakame> LaserJock: hmmm, I'm on a dapper-chroot ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: if i understand this correctly, awk (virtual package) should be already satisfied since mawk is installed
<zakame> there's mawk and gawk
<LaserJock> so is it ok to still have a build-dep on awk, or should it be changed?
<minghua> LaserJock: awk is just a virtual package
<sistpoty> LaserJock: so this shouldn't be a problem
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, well that makes sense
<minghua> LaserJock: if you mean use awk during the build, yes that's fine
<minghua> LaserJock: if you mean put awk in Build-Depends line in debian/control, no don't do that
<zakame> hmmm, a build-dep on a virtual package doesn't seem to make sense, that would confuse the autobuilders
<LaserJock> minghua: it is already in build-depends
<minghua> LaserJock: that's a bug, submit it :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I can change it since I am merging the package
<sistpoty> zakame: in that case it shouldn't, as it's already there
<LaserJock> I just don't know what to change it too
<minghua> LaserJock: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-mentors@lists.debian.org/msg41249.html
<sistpoty> LaserJock: do the least possible amount of changes between debian-packages and ubuntu-packages... if it's there and won't hurt leave it
<minghua> LaserJock: drop the awk dependence completely, awk is essential
<sistpoty> LaserJock: but file a bug in BTS ;)
<minghua> LaserJock: as long as it's not a versioned dependence
<LaserJock> minghua: no versioned dependece
<LaserJock> sistpoty: so I should leave it for now even though I have to change other build-depends anyway?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yep, leave it... (least possible change)
<LaserJock> ok
<minghua> hmm, apparently us.archive.ubuntu.com is not syncing their mirror for dapper everyday
<minghua> hope they at least sync the security mirror
<LaserJock> how come there is no libttf2-dev? There is libttf-deb and libttf2
<minghua> LaserJock: you mean libttf-dev, don't you?
<LaserJock> minghua: sorry, yea libttf-dev, how come there is no libttf2-dev?
<minghua> LaserJock: that's normal, just use the libttf-dev
<minghua> -dev packages are not required to have the SONAME
<minghua> I think having only one -dev package is even encouraged
<LaserJock> hmm, ok, that could be confusing
<minghua> those freetype 1 programs should really be ported to freetype 2 anyway...
<plugwash> i think if there is no good reason to build against the old lib there should only be one -dev package but if there is then two are required
<minghua> plugwash: exactly
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: I'm just taking a look at wesnoth-data-debdiff... maybe this will be my first upload as motu ;)
<edoardo> i added my audio-conversion script to the universe candidates!
<edoardo> ain't it cool? : )
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: thanks :)
<edoardo> well, goodnight everyone! and thankyou you guys! see ya tomorrow! : )
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: I haven't built it yet ;)
<sistpoty> edoardo: gn8... just a thought: maybe you could add a manpage for it (i tried --help first and it got confused)
<edoardo> poor script, it's not trained to help out : ) well it's because mainly it's intended as a nautilus script
<edoardo> like, you right click on files and convert them
<edoardo> it can optionally be used as a bash script though
<edoardo> yeah, maybe an --help function wouldn't be bad after all : )
<sistpoty> sure it would... and a manpage as well (every binary/script should have one) ;)
* sistpoty is out for a smoke... brb
<LaserJock> if I use lpbug.py should the website be updated right away?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: no, the website is update by mail through the universe-bugs list...
<sistpoty> updated even
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I'm not seeing any emails either
<minghua> Hmm, should we assign bugs to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com or universe-bugs@tiber.tauware.de?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I haven't tried lpbugs.py myself yet... only newmerge.py
<minghua> there are two addressed in malone
<sistpoty> minghua: to lists@ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> how do you set up your email for this?
<minghua> sistpoty: okay, I'll clarify on wiki as well
<sistpoty> minghua: the list @tiber is only, because launchpad is not capable of assigning mails from two teams to the same email-adress
<sistpoty> minghua: it's forwarded from tiber to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: for what? for newmerge.py?
<LaserJock> lpbugs.py
<minghua> sistpoty: I see
<sistpoty> LaserJock: as i said, I haven't taken a look at this ;)
<LaserJock> so how do you use newmerge.py?
<LaserJock> is anybody using lpbugs.py?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: try looking at the readme... or try newmerge.py --help
<LaserJock> sistpoty: not much help, the readme is for lpbugs and newmerge.py --help doesn't give me much
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: what package are they from?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: argl... mom
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: what?
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: see \sh's mail on -devel
<bmonty_laptop> ah...I haven't gotten through -devel today :)
<LaserJock> so what do I do? should I just skip using motu-tools stuff?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: mom... i just tried lpbugs.py ;)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: there is my lpbugs.conf: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4337
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you need to copy (an adjusted version) to ~/.lpbugs
<LaserJock> sistpoty: hmm, i don't know how to use sendmail
<sistpoty> LaserJock: do you have a mail-server installeD?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: not sure but I don't thinks so. I imap or ssh to my school server
<LaserJock> i don't even have sendmail installed
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you need smtp then... but I can't tell you how this works (as I even don't have the means to try this)
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems to be the problem. I already tried it with the setting from Thunderbird
<sistpoty> LaserJock: bug \sh tomorrow... maybe it's a bug ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, ok, well I guess I will do it by hand
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I guess, that newmerge.py won't help you either, as it uses mailx (unless you can send mails by "mail" on the shell)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't know, never tried it
<sistpoty> LaserJock: then try to mail yourself a test-mail ;) mail you@email.address
<LaserJock> sistpoty: is mail part of mailx, I don't have it
<minghua> I am looking at the package cppunit
<minghua> the only relevant ubuntu change left is in Build-Depends, from libqt3-mt-dev to libqt3-mt-dev (>= 3:3.3.3-7ubuntu4)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ok, then I guess it won't work
<minghua> but since the qt in dapper is sure to be GCC 4.0 ABI, can we just drop this change?
<minghua> in that case, it's just a sync instead of a merge
<sistpoty> minghua: if this was only because of gcc-transition, then sure ;)
<minghua> sistpoty: well, the only previous ubuntu change is for c++ transition, so I suppose so
<minghua> another easy one, then :-)
<sistpoty> minghua: if the version in breezy is already as high as 3.3.3.3-7ubuntu4, than it's ok (we don't support upgrades from hoary to dapper)
<minghua> sistpoty: good point, will check
<minghua> sistpoty: yes it is
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: uploading wesnoth... this might take some time
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: if this is in the merge, could you please file merge bugs as well?
<sistpoty> <-- needs another cigarette... brb
<crimsun> hmm, I thought we were supposed to support Hoary->Dapper
<crimsun> (since we support Warty->Breezy)
<LaserJock> so are we assigning to universe-bugs@tiber.tauware.de or not?
<crimsun> I'm using it for the new ones, yes
<bmonty_laptop> sistpoty: thanks, I'll check the merge
<bmonty_laptop> doesn't look like wesnoth is a merge package
<minghua> LaserJock: according to sistpoty, no
<LaserJock> minghua: interesting, some are some aren't
<LaserJock> minghua: I'm going with lists.ubuntu.com
<minghua> (21:30:39) sistpoty: minghua: the list @tiber is only, because launchpad is not capable of assigning mails from two teams to the same email-adress
<minghua> (21:31:04) sistpoty: minghua: it's forwarded from tiber to universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com ;)
<sistpoty> re
<minghua> these are the answers sistpoty gave me
<sistpoty> exactly
<minghua> so who should I bug to get the PendingUpload packages uploaded? :-)
<minghua> I have two easy one, just sync from debian
<sistpoty> minghua: some motu... like me ;)
<minghua> and I really want cppunit to be in, as it's build dependency for aptitude
<sistpoty> minghua: but this might take some time... as I can only forward these requests to elmo (and he seems quite busy)
<minghua> sistpoty: cool, can you look at #4087 and #4173?
<sistpoty> minghua: is cppunit in main then?
<minghua> sistpoty: no, it seems only for testing
<sistpoty> ah, k
<minghua> sistpoty: aptitude don't link anything from cppunit AFAIK
<crimsun> it can't if cppunit is in universe, since aptitude is in main
<bmonty_laptop> can't LaserJock forward the sync requests to elmo on his own (that is what i do)
<sistpoty> crimsun: can you look at these please? (i should be in bed for a few hours actually)
<sistpoty> bmonty_laptop: he can... but I dunno if elmo will care then ;)
<bmonty_laptop> I don't think elmo puts a high priority on sync requests for universe with everything else he has to do
<crimsun> sistpoty: which, sorry, just returned from jdub's presentation
<crimsun> 4087 & 4173?
<crimsun> yeah, I'll look
<sistpoty> thx crimsun :)
<crimsun> minghua: I'll ask elmo to sync a whole bunch in a bit, just trying to queue them
<minghua> crimsun: great, thanks
<bmonty_laptop> good night everyone
<sistpoty> gn8 everybody
<minghua> we have eclipse to merge?
<minghua> and there is not a proper ubuntu patch (it gives 2.1.3-4 -> 3.1.1-1ubuntu3) :-(
<tritium> hi everyone
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> What's going on, LaserJock?
<LaserJock> doing some merging, working on wiki and MOTUscience
<LaserJock> but I probably need to get to bed soon :(
<LaserJock> tritium: can you review on REVU?
<tritium> LaserJock, I don't believe so.  If I can, I'm not aware of it.
<tritium> Nor do I know if I really should be allowed to...
<LaserJock> aren't you a MOTU?
<tritium> LaserJock, yes, but when I started preparing for my defense, I had to take a sabbatical.  Now I'm out of touch with things.
<crimsun> (actually you can, Mike.)
<tritium> thanks, crimsun
<LaserJock> well, we have 2 new MOTUScience packages that are on REVU that could use some review
<tritium> LaserJock, ah, okay.
<LaserJock> tritium: if you have time. the packages are plotdrop and flowdesigner
<tritium> LaserJock, all right.  I'll see what I can do.
<LaserJock> ok, gotta go. cya
<tritium> Take care, LaserJock
<tritium> I can't login to revu.  When I use the "recover" link to get my password, and attempt to decrypt it as instructed, I get nothing
<crimsun> they're probably just waking up in a few hours
<Mithrandir> slomo_: np
<tritium> crimsun, who?
<crimsun> tritium: sh, siretart, etc.
<crimsun> (the REVU guys)
<tritium> thanks, I'll see if I can stay awake much longer ;)
* tritium cannot keep his eyes open.  Good night...
<Burgundavia> Lathiat, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4427160.stm
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> nice
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> siretart: shall new motu merge bugs be assigned to the new motumergers team?
<zakame> hi doko
<siretart> morning
<siretart> zakame: yes, I will reassign all old bugs soon
<magnon> hey reinhardt
* magnon starts work on jack stuff
<magnon> siretart: haven't got started with it yet this week, we got our new governmental budget last night :P
<slomo> zakame: ping?
<viviersf> magnon, exept for kamion who can i talk to about the ubuntu / debian installer ?
<magnon> hmm
<viviersf> the old 1 that is
<slomo> zakame: gpsd definitly can't be synced! the merged version has to be uploaded
<magnon> the old one isn't scrapped entirely though
<viviersf> yeah magnon
<viviersf> i need to find out
<viviersf> when the installer itself starts
<viviersf> the ncurses part
<viviersf> it loads a set list of modules
<viviersf> and i need a list of them
<magnon> kamion is the assignee for all the UX specs
<slomo> zakame: but gtkpbbuttons can be synced
<viviersf> :(
<viviersf> he is never here
<viviersf> and i need the impilinux cd to boot
<viviersf> im not using all the old stuff
<viviersf> cos im not using cloop
<zakame> slomo: pong... sorry, I was on another box merging...
* zakame reads scrollback
<zakame> slomo: yep, gpsd can't be synced, was about to change my report, merge must be uploaded
<zakame> hi siretart, \sh
<magnon> hum ti dum
<viviersf> lo \sh
<zakame> magnon: ty?
<\sh> moins
<magnon> this is sad.
* magnon is writing a cancelation of contract to a school
<viviersf> eish
<zakame> awww
<magnon> they break contract all the time, tell lies about what I've said on the phone (like "you said you didn't care about $foo breaking!") etc.
<magnon> this is the school that, when we told them that they should do a wireless connection between the school and the new office house which was 20 meters away, mounted an unshielded cat5 hanging from a 440V power line without noticing me
<magnon> I can't take it anymore :P
<Lathiat> haha
<zakame> wawa
<viviersf> heh
<siretart> hey magnonm huhu zakame
<Nafallo> LOL
<siretart> okay, I slept to long, I really need to go to university
<magnon> have fun tartie
<zakame> siretart: good luck! :D
<siretart> could anyone please update MOTUToMerge?
<magnon> Lathiat: imagine packet loss :P
<\sh> siretart: too long?
<viviersf> erf
<siretart> bugs about merging should be filed against 'motumergers'
<viviersf> im still having jetlag after the ubz trip
<zakame> siretart: I'm moving my bugs to motumergers now :)
<siretart> \sh: morning. I didn't hear the alarm clock, and I wanted to be at university at this time
<magnon> viviersf: just drop sleeping one night, worked for me .P
<viviersf> i wake up at 1 am and im looking for breakfast
<siretart> they are doing a linux setup party this afternoon, and I was asked to attend :)
<viviersf> heh magnon , barely slepts last night
<\sh> siretart: damn...ok..so hurry up :)
* Nafallo grumbles at the sun
<Nafallo> do we really need that stupid thing?
<\sh> siretart: did u read the announcement on -devel ML?
<\sh> btw..i'm implementing PendingUpload update function
<slomo> zakame: please don't fill 1000000000000 bugs for merges... fill some, get them done, fill new ones, etc...
<Nafallo> hmm
<sivang> morning all
<minghua> hi \sh, how is the progress on arpack++ package?
<Nafallo> that amount is like 10+ complete archives :-)
<minghua> I did the previous changes on arpack++ (mostly c++ transitions), and if you have difficult dealing with it, I can help
<zakame> slomo: yes, I am doing just that :) but sorry if I've stepped on anyone :(
<\sh> minghua: I tested lpbugs with it...but i'll do it later this day
<minghua> \sh: okay, just asking.  I intended to do the packages I worked for c++ transition, but found you picked arpack++ up :-)
<\sh> minghua: you are welcome to take over...just change the motu
<minghua> \sh: going to sleep soon, if you haven't found time to do it tomorrow, I'll take it over :-)
<slomo> zakame: np... just get them all done :)
<zakame> slomo: am doing my best :)
<\sh> if anybody has a merge package which bug status has to be set to pending upload, please give me the bug number pls
<\sh> ok..found one
<Nafallo> http://newtechinc.blogspot.com/2005/11/using-sonys-drm-against-itself.html <-- LOL
<slomo> \sh: what's the easiest way to publish a bzr branch per webdav? is more needed than loading mod_webdav?
<\sh> slomo: yes...a bzr plugin which everybody needs but nobody implemented
<slomo> \sh: so how is http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools working? readonly from remote?
<Nafallo> slomo: bzr log :-)
<slomo> hm?
<\sh> slomo: yes...readonly from remote...the rest is local branches in your homedir or publicly available on some other webserver...so we can merge remotely from another branch of motu-tools
<slomo> ok, sounds like svn is more suited for my use-case atm ;)
<zakame> bbl
<\sh> slomo: check the bzr plugins
<\sh> slomo: it should not be so difficult to add webdav functionality
<\sh> siretart: please merge ~shermann/motu-tools to your branch...I've added pending upload update bug functionality
<slomo> \sh: ok, when it doesn't support webdav for remote writing... does it support ssh?
<Nafallo> slomo: sftp IIRC
<slomo> and can it handle binary files?
<Nafallo> slomo: http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrFAQ
<slomo> ah thanks :)
<\sh> slomo: http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrPlugins
<slomo> ok, it's really nothing for my use case =) i need a centralized rcs...
<\sh> slomo: what do u want to do?
<slomo> \sh: managing my uni stuff (mostly tex, some pdf)... before i used a svn repo on my server and synced from/to this on my pc and laptop
<\sh> slomo: what is the problem using scp or sftp?
<\sh> actually we were discussion the usecase of webdav :)
<\sh> for bzr
<slomo> \sh: and with bzr it seems like i need to pull on the server from the branches on laptop/pc to get the most up-to-date version always on the server
<\sh> but kinnison wasn't sure if the bzr hackers should implement a webdav server module as well (just like svn) or if they should use the default webdav module
<\sh> slomo: use push via rsync
<slomo> \sh: oh there is push... hrm, bzr needs to be more verbose :P
<\sh> slomo: it's in bzr tools
<\sh> slomo: it's a plugin
<Nafallo> slomo: either that or you need to start reading docs ;-)
<\sh> slomo: the good thing behind bzr is, you can extend its functionality via plugins which is quite transparent
<Nafallo> and push is in bzr aswell :-)
<Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~ $ bzr help push
<Nafallo> usage: bzr push [LOCATION] 
<Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~ $ apt-cache policy bzrtools
<Nafallo> bzrtools:
<Nafallo>   Installerad: (ingen)
<dholbach> hellas
<Nafallo> morning dholbach :-)
<\sh> moins dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<slomo> hi dholbach
<Nafallo> yay bzr! /me just merged \sh's branch ;-)
<\sh> 7topic MOTUs with bzr fever :)
<\sh> Nafallo: do a bzr viz
<slomo> \sh: does it support rsync over ssh? what would the location be if my repo is on slomosnail.de in /home/slomo/test ? ;)
<\sh> slomo: honestly i didn't use it yet..but it should work with rsync over ssh
<\sh> slomo: use the source luke :)
<Nafallo> \sh: unknown command :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: apt-get install bzrk
<\sh> from jbaileys repos
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> :-P
<slomo> \sh: hrm, but i'm so lazy :(
<Nafallo> I know. but do I need it? :-)
* Nafallo figures he might need it some day or the other and installs ;-)
<\sh> def rsync(source, target, ssh=False, excludes=(), silent=False,
<\sh> slomo: it can use ssh
<slomo> thanks :) no i only need to find out what the url has to look like ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: why don't you remove newmerge.py from the bzr-repo? :-)
<\sh> rsync://user@host/location?
<\sh> Nafallo: because it's siretarts...i don't remove someones source :)
<slomo> \sh: doesn't work... anyway, i'll try this evening... next lecture starts soon ;)
<slomo> bbl
<Nafallo> baah, it confused me at first ;-)
<Nafallo> didn't know which one to use before I read the log :-P
<Nafallo> so
<Nafallo> lpbugs.py -n kismet?
<dholbach> siretart: awake?
<\sh> dholbach: he's at university
<dholbach> ah right
<\sh> Nafallo: to file a new bug against a src package: lpbugs.py -n <sourcepackage>
<dholbach> because one of the scripts assigned 4034 to the motu mergers
<dholbach> i reassigned it
<\sh> yuck...
<Nafallo> smtplib.SMTPException: SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server.
<Nafallo> TLS please ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: grmpf
<\sh> don't u have plain?
<Nafallo> yes, through TLS :-)
<siretart> hi
<Nafallo> I only have AUTH with TLS :-)
<siretart> dholbach: now I'm in my office
<\sh> Nafallo: ok...use sendmail instead as long as I have a solution for that...just reading about some pitfalls with smtplib and tls auth
<Nafallo> oki. I'll wait then :-)
<Nafallo> darkelf won't have an smtpd ;-)
<dholbach> siretart: 4034 was assigned to motumergers - just a headsup
<siretart> Ubugtu: bug 4034
<Ubugtu> (bug <abbreviation> <number>) -- Look up bug <number> in the bugzilla associated with <abbreviation>.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4034: Nautilus crashes when it's opened twice as user as root Fix req. for: nautilus (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Rejected http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4034
<siretart> dholbach: oh, must have been a typo. sorry!
<siretart> dholbach: as I see it it is already fixed, right?
<\sh> dholbach: where to assign? u missed a gpg signature :) and an affects path
<dholbach> siretart: don't worry, just a headsup, before any of your scripts run berserk
<dholbach> oh that's necessary
<dholbach> i see
<dholbach> well then next time
<siretart> dholbach: \sh did a near complete rewrite
<\sh> dholbach: what was the assignee again?
<\sh> dholbach: i'm doing it manually now
<siretart> \sh: I already did it
<\sh> ah ok
<siretart> reassigning to Ubuntu Gnome Team (via web frontend)
<\sh> dholbach: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc
<dholbach> \sh: yeah, thanks
<\sh> dholbach: for status/ assignee stuff u need always an affects path like /distros/ubuntu/<product>
<\sh> Nafallo: I found a solution..I'll hack it into lpbugs this evening
<\sh> when i'm at ogras place and have some barcadi with me :)
<\sh> which means...I should get up from my bed now and have a shower
<Nafallo> oki :-)
* Nafallo hugs \sh 
<\sh> looks like I have to rearrange the sendMail func
<janimo> dholbach, remember I tried getting an evince fork package into breezy
<janimo> I still want that for dapper and I'll ask you some advice
<janimo> the code is evince vanilla + a big patch
<janimo> now for aan ubuntu package which would be the best route to take
<janimo> so that I piss off the fewest people as possible?
<dholbach> good question
<janimo> I first thought of adding it to the evince package
<janimo> so it builds two binary debs
<janimo> doing two compiles
<janimo> but that may make it unsafe for me to go to france
<dholbach> ?
<janimo> another is do a separate evince-gtk package
<janimo> seb128 lives there :)
<\sh> ok...bbl
<janimo> the two package will be able to install side by side as I won't duplicate paths
<janimo> can I use an upstream orig.tgz for a package which is called differently and for which there's already another package
<dholbach> janimo: how does upstream like the big patch?
<janimo> I guess it's the same with the mozilla package
<janimo> dholbach, upstream are gnome people obviously they'd rather me use gnome instead of ripping it out of teir work :)
<janimo> they don't IOW :)
<janimo> it would mean ifdefs for them so I sympathize completely btw
<janimo> and the big patch's bigness is mostly removing stuff, it's little new code
<dholbach> hrmhrmhrmhrm
<janimo> so from a strictly ubuntu uni point of view is it ok to make a package which uses the same upstream tgz as another?
<dholbach> i just wonder about bug reports and everything, it's a hacky situation
<janimo> I want this to not be associated with evince besides crediting
<janimo> it won;t be called evince so people don;t bug them
<dholbach> janimo: in some cases we had no other choice, so yes, those cases do exist
<janimo> althiugh I am pretty sure it's bugs will be relevant to upstream but hey
<janimo> I really want a nice doc viewer w/o too many deps for xubu and writing one from scratch is not an option :)
<dholbach> i will think about it and talk to seb... how well is the patch maintained? will there be an "upstream" to check for new evince versions?
<janimo> well I surely intend to maintain it
<dholbach> so you wrote it?
<janimo> import fixes from CVS, but not much more I think if they go the gnome office route
<janimo> but evince right now is near perfect for what it is supposed to do :)
<janimo> yes I hacked it as wrote is an overstatement ;)
<dholbach> ok
<janimo> I'll keep an official upstream but I thiught it would be easier to just have the vanilla upstream and keep my patch in debian/patches
<dholbach> i will talk to seb
<dholbach> i see your need
<janimo> ok thanks
<janimo> making it part of the evince package as I thiugh earlier is not a good idea actually as it would need to keep pace with upstream
<janimo> so it is a fork happening at 0.4.0 with possibnility of following upstream but no promise
<dholbach> right
<janimo> you may point seb to this irclog if anything is unclear to him or let him ping me on irc
<janimo> thanks again
<dholbach> de rien :)
<siretart> \sh: just filed my first merge bug with lpbugs (had to iptable and tunnel smtp because of facist firewalling here)
<siretart> \sh: GREAT WORK man!
<\sh> siretart: well..it was your idea...I just rearranged some pieces of code :)
<\sh> I need to fix this with smtp tls auth...
<\sh> but this is not difficult
<dholbach> janimo: would you care to hop on #ubuntu-desktop
<\sh> I have to split out some stuff from sendMail to make it more "indipendent"
<\sh> siretart: do u know if there is a tool which reformats bad formatted python code to good formatted python code?
<siretart> i dont consider it that hard to configure exim4 in client mode
<siretart> \sh: eclipse? eric3? dunno
<\sh> siretart: uh....not eclipse...I use emacs..but u know..I don't do this var = bla
<\sh> i do var=bla
<siretart> \sh: try indent(1)
<siretart> perhaps there is something like that for python, too
<\sh> siretart: lets see
<\sh> Nafallo: is your tls server running on a different port?
<Nafallo> nope
<Nafallo> I try to always follow specs where possible :-)
<\sh> well...tls can run on 587 as well
<\sh> anyways..I added smtp_port to the config
<Nafallo> that's more like ssmtp :-)
<Nafallo> hehe, oki. nice :-)
<dholbach> slomo_: awake?
<janimo> guys, which of you is the tiber admin? could I too get some publishing space?
<dholbach> there are quite some admins :)
* janimo needs a place for warez and pr0n
<\sh> Nafallo: wanna try?
<janimo> is it a canonical box?
<\sh> Nafallo: i'm pushing the changes just now on tiber
<janimo> I used to have space on jblack's sourcecontrol.net but seems gone
<Nafallo> \sh: yes :-)
<\sh> ok...merge the ~shermann/motu-tools branch now :)
<Nafallo> what's up with gksudo!?
<Nafallo> it freezes my whole darkelf
<Nafallo> have to CTRL+ALT+F1 and kill a sudo process
<Nafallo> aha, I have to commit merges :-P
<\sh> sure
<\sh> Nafallo: adjust your lpbugs.conf please
<\sh> Nafallo: see the conf file in the branch for the changes
<Nafallo> ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'yourname' in section: 'MAIL'
<\sh> Nafallo: argl
<\sh> ok
<\sh> in lpbugs.conf
<Nafallo> something you forgot to add?
<\sh> YourName=your name
<\sh> YourEmail=just your email
<\sh> damn...i forgot to mention it in lpbugs.conf
<\sh> fixed now :)
<Nafallo> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4351
<\sh> yes..that's what I got as well
<\sh> hmm..
<\sh> Nafallo: vi lpbugs.py search for smtpSession.helo()
<Nafallo> we need to tell the server we want to use TLS before sending auth
<\sh> Nafallo: change it with smtpSession.ehlo
<\sh> Nafallo: thats what i'm doing
<\sh> Nafallo: change it with smtpSession.ehlo() i mean
<Nafallo> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4352
<\sh> bah
<\sh> moment
<Nafallo> oki :-)
<\sh> looks like ... i fixed this bug as well
<\sh> first starttls
<\sh> then ehlo
<\sh> result something like working..lets wait
<Nafallo> nice that worked :-)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> moment
<\sh> i'll commit
<\sh> done
<\sh> u can pull the changes now
<Nafallo> wow
* Nafallo merged all both siretart and shermann :-)
<Nafallo> I think they are all the same now or something :-P
<\sh> shermann is the latest
<\sh> and working :)
<Nafallo> I merged both ;-)
<Nafallo> I love bzr :-)
<Nafallo> hmm, anyone have something like an mysql to postgresql faq or something ;-)
<Nafallo> ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Nafallo> morning siretart
<Nafallo> morning sistpoty
<\sh> moisn sistpoty
<sistpoty> <-- still tired *g*
<\sh> sistpoty: lpbugs works now with smtp tls auth as well :)
<sistpoty> cool \sh
<siretart> hey Nafallo, huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> ' \sh: last night LaserJock had some trouble with it... actually with the smtp-part, but I couldn't help him through this
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<\sh> sistpoty: should be solved now :)
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/ <-- bzr repo, in case s.o. wants to take a look at DaD ;)
<\sh> DaD?
<sistpoty> Moms company ;)
<sistpoty> the webtool *g*
<\sh> LOL
<Nafallo> haha
<sistpoty> btw.: behold the new look... isn't that cruel any longer
<Nafallo> ooh
<Nafallo> nice
<\sh> The database was constructed from this and that and this also and just to be complete.
<\sh> this is the best
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> siretart: ping
<\sh> please check bug 4030
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4030: nethack: merge new debian version Fix req. for: ace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4030
<\sh> there is something wrong
<\sh>  Bug #4030 in ace (Ubuntu): "nethack: merge new debian version"
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4030: nethack: merge new debian version Fix req. for: ace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4030
<janimo> can revu act as a regular repo?
<\sh> nope
<janimo> a sort of debian experimantal
<\sh> for this personal apt-getable repositories via LP will be the solution
<janimo> oh nice
<janimo> soon?
<janimo> it'd be nice to have a staging repo used only by motu's for quick revu and testing
<janimo> but with no guarrantees so version numbers can be changed etc.
<zakame> ooh
<\sh> this u can do with revu ... u don't have a apt-getable repository thats all
* Nafallo can't get bzr push sftp://ogre.magicalforest.se/public_html/ to work
<janimo> \sh that is enough to raise the barrier and make it more complicated to use
<dholbach> we'll get that for launchpad
<janimo> any ETA?
<dholbach> no
<janimo> :(
<dholbach> i guess they have more pressing matters at hand
<janimo> I already think of recursive names such as Masters of the MOTUverse
<sistpoty> bug 4187
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4187: haddock: merge new debian version Fix req. for: haddock (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4187
<sistpoty> grr
<\sh> janimo: which should be the case...I don't want to screw around with broken packages from revu and complaining users
<janimo> \sh, raising the barriers not necessarily == raising quality
<\sh> as a universe uploader u know what to do, and u know the risk when u test packages
<janimo> I hate doing tedious work
<janimo> \sh, yeah I wish I always knew what to do ;)
<janimo> it'd be nice to just update apt-get source testpkg
<janimo> review, maybe fix, upload etc
<janimo> doing it through the browser is slow and annoying at least to me
<siretart> sistpoty: \sh: I'm not sure if you already noticed, madison-lite on tiber is operational since yesterday evening
<siretart> try 'madison-lite ace'
<\sh> wow incredible :)
<sistpoty> <-- waiting *G*
<\sh> janimo: if u review, u don't fix
<sistpoty> wow, that's nice
<\sh> janimo: the uploader should fix it
<\sh> janimo: and doing the final upload...means, sign the upload with your key, so u have to be sure, what u sign
<janimo> \sh, that is unnecessary policy IMHO but it may have it's advantages (cluestick application)
<janimo> it would be the same thing as now only more streamlined and automated
<\sh> janimo: it's not unnecessary for new packagers to learn....
<sistpoty> ' \sh: btw. because you say uploading... I think I don't get the trick yet
<janimo> yeah that's what I meant by cluestick
<janimo> I need it often too
<janimo> applied on me of course
<\sh> sistpoty: what? bzr sftp? did u install the sftp plugin?
<sistpoty> ' \sh no, dput to dapper
<sistpoty> I wanted to sponsor wesnoth for bmonty...
<\sh> ok....
<\sh> bmonty has his name and email address in the changeloig
<\sh> u do a debuild -S -k<your gpg email> (eventually a -sa for source)
<\sh> it will now create a dsc, diff.gz, and .changes file
<\sh> signed with your key but changelog name of bmonty
<\sh> then dput ubuntu wesnoth_*.changes
<sistpoty> ' \sh that's what i did (actually full source), and dput this to upload.ubuntu.com
<\sh> yes..bmonty will get katie mail
<pef> do I absolutely need a signed gpg key  to have upload rights ?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: but the upload never succeeded (it hung) so I retried without orig...
<\sh> sistpoty: hung?
<\sh> pef: for universe?
<sistpoty> '\sh It said uploading orig.tar.gz..., then I went to bed and this morning it still wasn't finisehd
<\sh> sistpoty: well...are u sure, your connection wasn't dropped during upload?
<sistpoty> one can never be sure *g*
<pef> \sh: yes
<\sh> i would say: connection dropped
<\sh> bad luck this time :)
<sistpoty> but the orig from last build is the same as current orig... so a source-only upload should have succeeded?
<\sh> pef: the policy was/is you should have at least one known signature
<sistpoty> upload w.o. orig i mean
<\sh> sistpoty: yes...if the orig.tar.gz is not changed, an normal upload is enough (means without -sa)
<pef> \sh: I have one from another MOTU, but I still cannot upload, and my address is whitelisted (asked to elmo)
<sistpoty> hm... I did this more than an hour ago... but still no mail :(
<pef> sistpoty: your uploads silentely dissapears ?
<sistpoty> pef: seems so
<\sh> pef: which means, that elmo hasn't had the time to include your key in the ring..which means he's very busy at ubz
<\sh> sistpoty: with bmontys name in the changelog?
<sistpoty> yep
<\sh> sistpoty: then bmonty will get the mail
<janimo> I have a package that has a makefile included but which nevertheless regenerates it at build so I'll have diffs
<pef> \sh: so it's just a question of time :)
<janimo> in order to reduce the diffs is it ok to save the makefile and then restore it after build
<janimo> so the diff does not have these iirrelevant chganges?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: but shouldn't i get a mail on dapper-changes... at least I got one from your upload of ace...
<sistpoty> asc even
<\sh> sistpoty: sure...if there was no error ... and the only one who can give u this information is bmonty,
<sistpoty> sh: ok... will ask him then ;)
<sistpoty> <-- out for a cigarette
<\sh> pef_aw: it is
<Kyral> Damnit
<Kyral> I was supposed to be at my computer incaseo someone needed help with Ubuntu, but I go aff to screw around on my floor. Lo and behold...
* sistpoty needs to go now
<sistpoty> cya later
<zakame> bye sistpoty
<edoardo> hi gals, hi dudes : )
<zakame> hi edoardo
<edoardo> i've added my script to the universe candidates. what could i do now? : )
<sivang> guys, how is dapper these days? usable?
<sivang> (I want to dist-upgrade)
<zakame> it is usable, at least a bit :)
<zakame> though I'm still running it as a chroot
<sivang> zakame: you have everything mounted etc?
<zakame> motus: ping, requesting sync for boa-constructor :)
<zakame> sivang: following the DebootstrapChroot howto, I think so
<sivang> zakame: ok , I was just checking to see if there any benefit for running it natively on the machine
<zakame> sivang: I hope to run it natively as soon as my parish bookstore/office's dsl got approved :)
<zakame> hi ogra
<ogra> heya
<infowolfe> just wondering, why make it such a pain in the rear to actually become a maintainer?
<ogra> infowolfe, ?
<infowolfe> let's say i'd like to submit an svn/lighttpd/rubygems package for universe...
<infowolfe> why do i have to jump through a _bunch_ of hoops, JUST so i can provide ubuntu users with a svn that doesn't segfault?
<dholbach>  infowolfe which hoops?
<infowolfe> wiki-fiddling, signing up for an account on wiki.ubuntu.com and launchpad.net, writing a bio (including links to how i've helped people in the open source world), etc etc etc
<ogra> infowolfe, do you want to submit some work or do you want to become maintainer ?
<Nafallo> ehm, you don't? we sponsor people. you just need to upload to revu :-)
<ogra> submitting stuff just needs a sponsore
<ogra> -e
<dholbach> infowolfe: if you just want to get a fix included and don't care about becoming a regular maintainer, upload your fix to REVU, get it reviewed and included
<infowolfe> dholbach, alright, well, that seems a _whole_ lot more reasonable ;-)
<infowolfe> how long do things normally sit in revu?
<Nafallo> forever :-)
<dholbach> infowolfe: as a maintainer, you NEED to care, care about documentation, communication with fellow maintainers, ...
<dholbach> infowolfe: don't rule possibilites out, before you tried them
<infowolfe> dholbach, the few things that I'd be interested in helping with are excellently documented already
<dholbach> infowolfe: i rather referred to your statement regarding "wiki fiddling"
<Mithrandir> also, subversion is in main.
<ogra> infowolfe, if people wnat to be real maintainers, there is a lot more to do and a very open access to the build systems, so we need to be sure we can trust people and can trust their packaging skills before the are allowed to break packages ;)
<ogra> thats why there are somme hoops to jum through...
<infowolfe> ogra, which is definately reasonable, Mithrandir, subversion in breezy is version 1.2.0 -- which is broken.
<dholbach> infowolfe: if you can provide us with a fixed version, we could get that through breezy-backports ... as i said in #gnome-debian
<Mithrandir> infowolfe: what's broken about it?
<infowolfe> Mithrandir, segfaults.
<Mithrandir> infowolfe: works fine for me, hence, in what cases?
<Mithrandir> infowolfe: also, bug #?
<dholbach> infowolfe: could you provide us with a backtrace and a bug report?
<infowolfe> Mithrandir, already spoke with dholbach about it... see the changelog
<dholbach> infowolfe: we're currently merging our changes with the debian packages... if you want to give us a hand there, then it's highly appreciated
<Mithrandir> infowolfe: there is no newer version of subversion in Dapper.
<dholbach> Mithrandir: he meant the upstream changelog, i suppose
<infowolfe> Mithrandir, i sent you a /msg with the appropriate link to upstream's changelog
<Mithrandir> none of those seem to be very critical, imo.
<infowolfe> svn unlock url isn't critical?
<Mithrandir> no?  svn is usually not used like RCS, it's more or less lockless.
<infowolfe> Mithrandir, if you use svn for read-only access, sure, none of the bugs are a problem, if you have a buggy client (like rapidsvn) that locks a repo prior to commit and then segfaults (as the version in breezy has been known to do) it's very possible to create _another_ segfault by attempting to unlock.
<Mithrandir> I have never ever used locks in any VCS except RCS.
* infowolfe wanders off to set ulimit -C unlimited and make things break so he can add a crapload of bugreports to bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<edoardo> you guys, i'm the author of an audio conversion script which is becomin' really popular lately. it's called audio convert. i've added it to the univers candidates wiki. many ubuntu users have already asked me for a deb package. but i dunno how to make'em, and bein' the author of the script, the installer, and the ebuild, and havin' a busy life, i don't have time to learn how to make one. can anyone help me out? please? thankyou! : )
<dholbach> we need the motu audio team more and more :)
<siretart> dholbach: we could merge them in the motumedia team, I think
<dholbach> magnon: how does edoardo's audio conversion script sound to you?
<magnon> where is it?
* magnon IS the audio team now, according to launchpad ;)
<edoardo> it's here
<magnon> I can't see it
<magnon> :D
<edoardo> http://freshmeat.net/projects/audio-convert
<magnon> ah, ty
<edoardo> or in the universe candidates wiki
<edoardo> under audio convert
<magnon> you gave it a very non-googleable name :(
<magnon> I'll install it now
<edoardo> but it is becomin' popular though, somehow. i think freshmeat helps a lot in that sense
<magnon> should make a pygtk ui ;)
<edoardo> did you use it?
<magnon> I have it installed now
<magnon> the problem with scripts is that Nautilus will give you the option on _any_ script
<magnon> any file
<magnon> I mean
<edoardo> yeah
<edoardo> that's why i added a 'format not supported' error message if the user runs it on a file that's not audio : )
<magnon> a problem with packaging it is getting the script link to all users though
<magnon> anyway.
<dholbach> edoardo: i packaged soundconverter, maybe you can have a look, how that is done?
<infowolfe> dholbach, any idea who's going to pick up lighttpd?
<edoardo> the linkin'... well, it's done through the installer. it's not that hard
<dholbach> infowolfe: it's on http://revu.tauware.de, as i said in #gnome-debian
<magnon> edoardo: for the user that installs it, yes.
<infowolfe> dholbach, so what needs to be done to push it forward?
<infowolfe> bribery?
<magnon> so it wouldn't be a very sexy package
<edoardo> like, in gentoo when you emerge the ebuild there's a message that says: 'run audio-convert-install' as user. and that's it
<magnon> that's not sexy :p
<dholbach> infowolfe: fixing the bugs that were stated by reviewers
<infowolfe> dholbach, didn't see any bugs
<edoardo> magnon, well you know packages better than me. is there any way to put it in automatic?
<dholbach> changing user configuration files (stuff in /home) is a no go for packages
<magnon> edoardo: I don't think nautilus has global scripts
<magnon> maybe it has, I dunno
<infowolfe> dholbach, i'll sign up for an account on revu, 1.3.16 is pretty old, lighty development is quite fast (weigon works on lighttpd fulltime)
<dholbach> infowolfe: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<edoardo> magnon, no no, it don't. that's the issue : )
<infowolfe> dholbach, seen it... grep "needle" haystack?
<infowolfe> and again, i'm not seeing any bugs other than internal packaging stuff.
<infowolfe> on a package that's quite old (1.4.7 is current)
<dholbach> infowolfe: yeah, the packaging must be good, to get it uploaded
<magnon> then I would like to see a nicer method to do such a conversion if _I_ were to maintain the package, but if you find anyone to package it and upload it to REVU, noone will demand anything more. :)
* magnon is more into the pro audio parts
<dholbach> edoardo: libnautilus-extension might be the key
<infowolfe> dholbach, any way to remove the current lighttpd from revu so i can re-submit with current stuff?
<dholbach> infowolfe: what are you referring to needle-haystack-wise?
<dholbach> infowolfe: just re-submit
<infowolfe> dholbach, wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU ;-)
<dholbach> infowolfe: it's surely mentioned on the MOTU pages, which is referred to in the channels topic
<edoardo> dholbach, what is it? remember that mine is a script, not a plugin
<dholbach> edoardo: nautilus doesnt have a global scripts directory, because extensions can be written
<infowolfe> dholbach, again, grep "needle" haystack (it doesn't help to refer to documentation that seems convoluted via cross-linking when a quick answer would work just as well)
<magnon> edoardo: maybe expand the base of it a little? :)
<dholbach> edoardo: i just referred to "that's the issue" :)
<edoardo> magnon, meanin'?
<magnon> if you give me a pygtk app, mainly converting with gstreamer if possible, which is HIG and has a nautilus extension, I'll maintain it ;D
<dholbach> infowolfe: if you read the page, you will see, that it contains information, thats important to understand the REVU process
<magnon> anyway.
<dholbach> infowolfe: if reading it is too much, then i'm sorry, but it's just the way it is
<magnon> your issue was to find someone to make a package
<infowolfe> dholbach, reading, while doing user support and updating upstream information on a package that ubuntu has let sit in your REVU system since august IS too much to ask, especially when i'm _attempting_ to HELP your distro.
<dholbach> infowolfe: what do you think we're all doing?
<edoardo> magnon, yeah. but it's probably not that hard, is it? why is it so hard to find someone then? besides, i would only need a skeleton and some guidance. i can make the package meself if it's necessary
<dholbach> infowolfe: we're all reading, supporting users, updating packages and review packages
<magnon> edoardo: which is why dholbach pointed you to the soundconverter package, it can probably help :)
<dholbach> infowolfe: and if you have a closer look... the package maintainer didng follow up
<edoardo> magnon, awright, where do i find the package?
<infowolfe> dholbach, being rude, dismissive, elitist, and generally pigheaded, as can normally be expected of #debian -- when i get a moment, i'll attempt to sign up for revu, at this time, i don't have that moment, maybe in an hour or so
<magnon> edoardo: you don't run ubuntu?
<dholbach> infowolfe: are you telling me, i was rude, dismissive, an elitist and generally pigheaded?
<edoardo> magnon, nope. i was asked to make a package by several ubuntu users though. and i find the distro very interestin'. but i run gentoo : )
<infowolfe> dholbach, on #gnome-debian, and with regards to me wondering why packages that have been updated months ago upstream haven't been updated yet, yes.
<dholbach> ???
<magnon> edoardo: you know ubuntu is an ancient african word that means "I'm sick and tired of compiling Gentoo", right
<infowolfe> pointing to the same documentation repeatedly doesn't lend itself to clarity
<dholbach> i told you more than once, that it might help to produce a fixed/updated/whatevered package and get it up for review, so it can be uploaded
<edoardo> magnon, i thought it meant 'everyone together', or somethin' like that : )
<dholbach> if you don't want to read the documentation on the processes for that, how i can help?
<magnon> edoardo: oh, that too, but that's secondary :P
<edoardo> magnon, no but really, where can i find it? : )
<magnon> oh, right
<dholbach> infowolfe: just fyi: i was the only one inviting you to participate in that conversation, so i won't take your accusations, thank you very much
<magnon> edoardo: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/soundconverter/
<magnon> *dsc is package description, download tarball and apply diff.
<edoardo> so i don't download .deb?
<dholbach> the deb doesnt tell you, how it is "assembled"
<edoardo> oh it's like a binary?
<dholbach> .diff.gz, .dsc and .orig.tar.gz are called the source package
<magnon> yes.
<freeflying> dose who maintain soundconvert?
<dholbach> freeflying: i maintain soundconverter... if you mean that package
<freeflying> yeah
<dholbach> freeflying: apt-cache show <package> | grep Maintainer can tell
<dholbach> although that's not true for packages we have from debian .... hrm
<dholbach> forget what i said :)
<freeflying> it will dependant on libtag
<freeflying> but it can not sole this in breezy
<freeflying> I mean build it
<dholbach> it's a python package
<freeflying> sure? I got it from revu
<dholbach> freeflying: and it doesn't import anything that might be id3/tag related
<dholbach> freeflying: it's included since breezy
<freeflying> :(
<dholbach> just     grep import soundconverter.py
<dholbach> i'm off for a walk
<dholbach> see you later
<freeflying> sorry? I mean this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=652
<freeflying> bye
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> that's something different
<dholbach> it' s     soundkonverter, which seems to be a kde package
<dholbach> freeflying: you may want to talk to tonio, but he's not here atm
<freeflying> thanks
<dholbach> bbl
<\sh> morning jeff
<jbailey> g'morning. =)
<magnon> morning, jeff!
<rob^^^> how hard is it to get a backport created? Rhythmbox from sid built just fine last week and enabled Avahi browing and playing of iTunes shares.
<slomo_> reee
<slomo_> rob^^^: real hard in that case... you need avahi in main for that and it isn't in main yet even for dapper
<rob^^^> slomo: so there are no universe backports?
<slomo_> rob^^^: sure... but rhythmbox is main, avahi is universe (for breezy)... main packages can only depend on other main packages
<rob^^^> oh
<slomo_> rob^^^: and daap doesn't work good right now anyway ;)
<rob^^^> slomo: what do you mean, it seemed to be working
<rob^^^> did iTunes change?
<slomo_> try scrolling into one song, change to another, start one, skip to the next, etc
<slomo_> sometimes it leads to unexpected behaviour ;)
<Amaranth> did itunes change what?
<rob^^^> their implementation of DAAP
<Amaranth> itunes 6 probably changed their daap auth again
<Amaranth> they seem to do that at the same time they change the store
<Amaranth> which 6 did
<janimo> slomo_:  are you one of the tiber.t.de admins?
<slomo_> janimo: what do you want to be done?
<janimo> an account if possible for publishing
<janimo> archives, patches, etc
<janimo> I need it for xubuntu seeds too
<slomo_> janimo: hm, ask \sh_away, siretart, sistpoty or ajmitch_
<janimo> ok thanks
<janimo> siretart, ajmitch_ ^ ?
<slomo_> hm, elmo doesn't sync currently?
<slomo_> \sh_away: would you mind if dnspython is synced from debian and your version overriden?
<highvoltage> tonight is the night i'm taking the plunge.
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the first thing i should do on the way to becoming a motu. I knew i asked you before, but that was a rough time for me.
<ogra> are you member already ?
<ogra> first thing would be to get your key signed and apply for membership
<ogra> (and sign the code of conduct indeed)
<highvoltage> ubuntu membership?
<highvoltage> yes, i signed the CoC, and I am am ubuntu member.
<ogra> the work you did and do for edubuntu is contribution enough, if you've done the above, just set yourself on te agenda of the next CC meeting and apply for membership in the launchpag team
<highvoltage> membership for the motu team?
<ogra> oh, you are already ...
<highvoltage> so what's the next step?
<highvoltage> ooh... there's a MotuGettingIntoIt page.. /me checks it out
<ogra> do some packahging work
<ogra> currently we need help with merges
<highvoltage> great! how do i do that?
<edoardo> i've downloaded .tar.gz and the diff for a deb, and i've applied the diff. i was told this would lead me to knowin' how a .deb si built... but it's not really leadin' me there : )
<edoardo> *is
<highvoltage> edoardo: i read so many howto's and guides, and found it confusing. then i read "man dpkg" and strangely enough, it was the best documentation i could find :)
<ogra> highvoltage, there was a mail to -devel from \sh today, pointing to a tool that generates a list for you
<highvoltage> edoardo: i just used an existing deb as a template, and used dpkg -b
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, i'll check it out
<ogra> highvoltage, grab a package from the list, check the ubuntu changes from the old version and decide which (if any) of the changes are still needed...
<edoardo> highvoltage, the point is i'm not supposed to make a deb. i asked if someone in here could do it for me. i can maintain' it then maybe. it's for an audio conversion script i made, and many ubuntu users have asked me for a deb. could anyone make it or help me make it?
<ogra> if there are none/they are obsolete and we can go with the debian version (best case) request a sync from debian... else meger the changes ...
<LaserJock> could I get a MOTU to check out my vflib3 merge bug? It is a build-dep for another merge
<highvoltage> ogra: is this the page you were talking about?
<highvoltage> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<ogra> highvoltage, yup
<highvoltage> ok, i'll take dillo. it sounds small and uncomplicated.
<highvoltage> (famous last words)
<ogra> heh
<highvoltage> dillo links to http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/dillo/, should I download all the files in there?
* highvoltage downloads it anyway
<LaserJock> have you been to MOTUToMerge?
<ogra> highvoltage, see the wikipage that is mentioned atthe top
<ogra> (of the list)
<highvoltage> heh. thanks. strange how i missed that.
<ogra> highvoltage, for merging,grab the source package from ~/scott and look how much from the dropped.patch needs to get applied ...
<Nafallo> or look at them online :-)
<ogra> yeah
<Nafallo> (you actually download them, but wth :-P)
<ogra> but you need to testbuild the package at least once
<ogra> so you wont get around downloading ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: i read through the wiki pages, but i'm not really sure what to do with these files. are there perhaps step by step examples somewhere, or am I perhaps missing an important piece again?
<highvoltage> on MOTUToMerge, it says I should "merge new debian version"
<highvoltage> is there a merge command?
<slomo_> no... if there was one we wouldn't need to do it by hand ;)
<slomo_> there is MoM but it doesn't work in all cases
<highvoltage> i'd like to learn as manual as possible.
<highvoltage> that way I learn something :)
<highvoltage> but i'm having trouble figuring it out myself.
<slomo_> get our version, get the latest debian version... take the debian version as a base and add our changes back to it if they're still needed
<slomo_> verify that it builds... and make a debdiff then
<slomo_> or when no changes to the debian version are needed ask for a sync
<slomo_> and don't forget to open bugreports for the packages you're working on ;)
<herve> hello
<highvoltage> ok, i'm copying that into gedit and then i'll figure it out step by step.
<highvoltage> slomo_: i'm not an expeienced package maintainer of any kind, so now and again i might get stuck.
<slomo_> highvoltage: np :) feel free to ask here ;)
<slomo_> hi herve :)
<highvoltage> hi herve
<dholbach> hellas herve
<herve> warm welcome :-)
<LaserJock> could I get a MOTU to check out my vflib3 merge bug? It is a build-dep for another merge
<highvoltage> so slomo_, I should apply the diff.gz file to the .tar.gz file? which command do i use, "diff"? I'm not very familiar with diff, how would I run it?
<zul> highvoltage: patch -p<whatever>
<slomo_> highvoltage: dpkg-source -x bla.dsc will unpack the tar.gz for you and apply the diff
<LaserJock> dholbach: i've been meaning to ask you abou MOTUDocumentationDraft. Do you want that info integrated into the wiki?
<hunger> highvoltage: Some debs have more patches in debian/patches. Those are not necessarily applied after dpkg-source -x.
<slomo_> but these are applied while building... no need to apply them by hand before building
<dholbach> LaserJock: sorry for not answering earlier... we have to write some text around the links i feel
<dholbach> LaserJock: i was at the conference and i'm more and more arriving, let me do some brainstorming over the weekend
<LaserJock> dholbach: well that's what I mean. I am getting on another wiki rewrite kick
<dholbach> LaserJock: if you want to write more text around the links... just go ahead... it's a good start
<LaserJock> dholbach: btw, I am supposed to be working on a Packaging Guide for the doc team. That will be good to have too
<dholbach> LaserJock: there was a spec which was approved at ubz about that very topic
<dholbach> LaserJock: diziet will be working on it (among others)
<LaserJock> yeah, I am supposed to get a copy of what Unfrgiven has done so that it can be included in the doc team svn repository
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> i'd rather have a look at what diziet works on
<dholbach> because it was a spec which was approved... so quite a lot of people had a look on it
<dholbach> siretart was present during those bofs too, iirc
<LaserJock> ok, well maybe I will talk to Burgundiva and mdke in the doc team about it
<highvoltage> slomo_: thanks
<dholbach> mono team: new beagle... yay! :)
<slomo_> dholbach: nice, tseng will be happy :)
<slomo_> hmm... all my merges except two are to be synced... narf
<LaserJock> slomo_: really, I think I have had only one that could be synced
<slomo_> LaserJock: did you verify it by hand or did you trust MoM?
<LaserJock> by hand of course
<slomo_> ok, then you choose the wrong packages ;)
<LaserJock> I usually look at the MoM output though
<LaserJock> usually, it is just a tweak of the build dependency
<slomo_> i almost never look at it... i don't trust it
<LaserJock> dholbach: is the spec you are talking about  "Move the Ubuntu Packaging guide" ?
<dholbach> it's   developer-documentation
<LaserJock> dholbach: now I'm confused.
<dholbach> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperDocumentation
<LaserJock> yeah, but what about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<LaserJock> are we getting some overlap
<dholbach> i hope not
<LaserJock> I am supposed to work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide
<LaserJock> which, I would assume, would be a part of developer documentation
<dholbach> the guys on #ubuntu-docs should know
<dholbach> #ubuntu-doc rather
<LaserJock> well, maybe I will have to clarify with them. Burgundiva, mdke, and rob^ are the guys that put me in charge of UbuntuPackagingGuide
<dholbach> we just won't have the manpower to maintain 3 different developer documentations
<LaserJock> dholbach: right
<LaserJock> hmm, but according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperDocumentation the developers will maintain the documentation, whereas my undestanding from the doc team was that they were going to do it
<dholbach> there's nothing wrong with doing together *oooh yeah* :-p
<highvoltage> slomo_: dpkg -x dillo_0.8.5-2ubuntu1.dsc says that --extract needs a target directory.
<slomo_> dpkg-source -x bla.dsc
<highvoltage> sorry, don't know how i could've missed that.
<slomo_> np :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: well, I don't know what I am supposed to do, I will just have to talk to the doc team people about it
<dholbach> just make sure you raise the point of the other dev-doc plans
<LaserJock> dholbach: In the mean time, I think our MOTU wiki still needs work. I will work on that until I hear from them
<dholbach> and thanks for your efforts
<dholbach> absolutely
<LaserJock> dholbach: np
<LaserJock> plus, I started a MOTUScience team, so I seem to be pretty busy these days
<highvoltage> slomo_: it creates a dillo-0.8.5 directory, that also contains a "debian" directory, does that mean this is like an extracted debian package?
<slomo_> highvoltage: it's an extracted sourcepackage... yes
<ogra> highvoltage, yup
<_thierry> what is the package for the command desktop-file-validate?
<dholbach> _thierry: use dlocate to find out :)
<ogra> _thierry, od dpkg -S :)
<ogra> or even
<dholbach> or use packages.ubuntu.com
<slomo_> or apt-file
<ogra> or grep through /var/lib/dpkg/info
<_thierry> ogra : dpkg -S give not found
<ogra> _thierry, you need to give the full path
<highvoltage> how do i turn a source package into a binary deb? it contains a debian directory, shouldn't that be uppercase letters DEBIAN?
<ogra> if its still not fond its not from a debian package
<slomo_> highvoltage: no
<_thierry> ogra : full path? wich full path?
<slomo_> highvoltage: dpkg-buildpackage, debuild or pdebuild
<ogra> of the command
<ogra> dpkg -S `which desktop-file-validate`
<ogra> `which desktop-file-validate` will expand to the full path
<slomo_> _thierry: if you don't have it installed apt-file will find it for you
<highvoltage> slomo_: i don't have debuild or pdebuild installed, if i dpkg -S them, it seems that there's just some java files for eclipse, but no executables. where should i download them?
<slomo_> highvoltage: apt-get install devscripts probably
<ogra> highvoltage, see the PbuilderHowto on the wiki as well
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<highvoltage> slomo_: got debuild
<_thierry> ogra : I get that dpkg-query need a filename...
<ogra> _thierry, then this command doesnt exist on your filesystem, do what slomo_ said
<_thierry> ogra : apt-file search desktop-file-validate gives me nothing
<ogra> so it apparently doesnt exist
<_thierry> mmm seb128 used this command and want me to fix something that the output show... strange
<highvoltage> i'm downloading the -dev packages needed from dapper. does it make a difference whether i'm using them from haory or dapper?
<ogra> _thierry, so ask him where it comes from ;)
<ogra> highvoltage, we only develop for dapper
<LaserJock> dholbach: what kind of things do you want to see on MOTUDocumentationDraft ?
<highvoltage> ogra: so as dapper changes, this package will need to change too?
<highvoltage> i get a:
<highvoltage> dw_gtk_viewport.c:911: error: redefinition of p_Dw_gtk_viewport_remove_anchor
<highvoltage> dw_gtk_viewport.c:880: error: previous definition of p_Dw_gtk_viewport_remove_anchor was here
<highvoltage> make[4] : *** [dw_gtk_viewport.o]  Error 1
<highvoltage> something i've done wrong?
<highvoltage> make[4] : Leaving directory `/data/jonathan/motu/dillo/dillo-0.8.5/src'
<slomo> let's get a gin tonic and do some merges ;)
<LaserJock> unfortunately, the power got shut off at school so I am without my Ubuntu box >:(
<LaserJock> so no more merging for me today
<highvoltage> slomo_: i already have a few glasses of wine in, not sure if that's helping or making things worse.
<highvoltage> at least it gave me enough courage to start learning some motu stuff.
<slomo> highvoltage: hehe... mine is empty... therefore the gin tonic ;) but i don't know if it helps... at least it doesn't hurt in general :P
<highvoltage> is it possible that the dillo package is just a bit broken? should i try another package?
<slomo> why?
<highvoltage> see my message posted at 21 minutes ago, make gives me errors
<slomo> fix it :) do you know some C?
<highvoltage> (about 15 lines up)
<highvoltage> no, i don't. but there's probably  no time like the present to learn :)
<highvoltage> (wow, this wine is making me brave)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> otherwise i could take it :) you don't learn C from that ;)
<herve> see you later
<highvoltage> hmmm... looking at that c file there's only a close curly bracket in that line. so there's probably a problem caused somewhere before that bracket closed. way above my head.
<highvoltage> slomo: if you could fix that, or give me some pointers, i'd be very happy.
<slomo> ok, i'll take it then... dillo was it?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> i'll get something else in the meantime
<slomo> highvoltage: please make bugreports for your merges
<highvoltage> slomo: do i do that on launchpad, or bugzilla?
<highvoltage> should i make one for the failed dillo too?
<slomo> launchpad... please read \sh's blog entry from yesterday :)
<slomo> and i make one for dillo, don't worry about it
<slomo> highvoltage: there's a tool for it
<ivoks> hello
<highvoltage> ok. /me catches up on the -devel list
<slomo> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<Grev> where to a make a suggestion for a universe package
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<ivoks> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps - is this priority? :)
<dholbach> i guess it's stale :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok, so how can i help? REVU?
<dholbach> REVU, merges :)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> sorry, i'm totally free-time-less these days, so i couldn't work on anything
<Grev> it is for a change I would suggest for a new package in Dapper universe
<slomo> Nafallo: waaaah... you broke dillo :P
<slomo> Nafallo: you changed the upstream tarball and now we can't sync :P
<ivoks> :/
<highvoltage> so it wasn't me who broke it!? yippee!
<slomo> Nafallo: i'll fix it :) will you care for it for the rest of 0.8.5? ;)
* highvoltage puts on Shaggy - It wasn't me 
<slomo> highvoltage: that's another error :)
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<slomo> highvoltage: whatever you've done... it compiles fine here ;) are you on hoary and compiled in directly in hoary (no dapper pbuilder)?
<Nafallo> slomo: nope, debian broke it!
<Nafallo> slomo: they downloaded the orig.tar.gz last :-P
<highvoltage> i'm in dapper at the moment, i don't have pbuilder installed yet, could that be the problem?
<slomo> Nafallo: you definitly broke it :P upstream would never call the directory dillo-0.8.5.orig...
<slomo> dpkg-source repackaging problem probably
<Nafallo> baah
<slomo> i've done the same mistake with boo if this helps you ;)
<Nafallo> damn -/_ :-P
<Nafallo> they are just lines ffs ;-)
* Nafallo tries to get php5 and postgresql8 to coop :-P
<slomo> highvoltage: no... hm, get pbuilder running :)
<slomo> highvoltage: but i've uploaded it now
<highvoltage> ok, thanks. i'm not going to log anything for dillo, since nothing i did would change anything
<\sh> highvoltage: what's up with motu-tools?
<highvoltage> \sh: how do i use it? if i run the ./lpbugs.py it returns nothing
<\sh> read the README :)
<slomo> \sh: will you merge gajim? :)
<\sh> highvoltage: the lpbugs workflow is explained there
<\sh> slomo: jepp......
<slomo> \sh: and can i request a sync of dnspython overwriting your package? or do we want yours?
<slomo> dholbach: will  you merge gazpacho?
<\sh> na....
<Nafallo> what's there to merge for gajim? ;-)
<\sh> request the sync
<dholbach> slomo: you want to do it?
<Nafallo> slomo: seb128 requested a sync of gazpacho earlier.
<\sh> Nafallo: there are differences between our package and debian...i'll doit
<slomo> Nafallo: oh, it is still in the merge list :(
<Nafallo> \sh: that's because it's not the same package anymore ;-)
<slomo> i'll remove it
<\sh> thats why i'll do it
<Nafallo> \sh: but sure. then make gajim-debian-ubuntu :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: 0.8 will have an own repos
<Nafallo> oki
<Nafallo> why? :-P
<slomo> Nafallo: elmo must have overlooked it... he synced my requests before and after he told it
<\sh> oh wow
<xophEr> are there backports for breezy yet?
<Nafallo> oki, so rerequest it :-)
<ogra> xophEr, yes
<\sh> i'm stopping ircing...because i'm drunk somehow...or going to be
<Nafallo> \sh: baah :-P
<ogra> xophEr, ask on the ubuntu-backports ML if you want something backported
<LaserJock> \sh: btw, I can't get lpbugs.py to work with smtp
<Nafallo> \sh: why let that stop you? ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: it's WORKING NOW
<\sh> even for nafallo
<LaserJock> \sh: with smtp?
<\sh> Nafallo: because i'm going to be a more serious MOTU
<\sh> LaserJock: YES
<Nafallo> \sh: wow :-P
<slomo> wtf
<Nafallo> slomo: me? :-)
<slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/axiom/
<slomo> insane
<slomo> =)
<slomo> let's merge it :P
<\sh> ok...i'm drinking beer and rum and whatever
<\sh> good night
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> libgksuui1.0-1 is in universe ;-)
<slomo> gn8 \sh_away
<slomo> Nafallo: what is it? ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: backend for gksu(do) ;-)
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> doesn't sound sane to have it in universe :P
<Nafallo> was libgksuui1.0-0 earlier today, which is still in main ;-)
<Nafallo> STUPID PHP!
* Nafallo gives up
<Nafallo> slomo: don't forget to re-request gazpacho ;-)
<slomo> Nafallo: why? you do it :P
<Nafallo> me? why me? :-P
<slomo> because you want it? ;)
<Nafallo> I don't use it atm ;-)
<Nafallo> and I have a working version already ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<highvoltage> slomo, ogra: thanks for your help. i will continue my motu journies tomorrow.
<highvoltage> in the meantime, http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/specificator
<highvoltage> goodnight!
<Nafallo> ha!
<Nafallo> kismet needs imagemagick, which FTBFS on all arches ;-)
<dholbach> good night
<slomo> kismet needs imagemagick?
<slomo> gn8 dholbach :)
<slomo> hmm, i had another package which needs a new imagemagick ;)
<Nafallo> wrong build-deps :-P
<slomo> fix it ;)
* Nafallo should fix it and ask Tollef for another sponsorship ;-)
<Nafallo> slomo: seahorse FTBFS on amd64, kthxbai! ;-)
<Nafallo> ehm, make that FTBFS everywhere -)
<Nafallo> ;-)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> i'll take care of it :P
<slomo> it worked at the time i built it :P
<slomo> bah
<slomo> all my syncs failed because of uninstallable librsvg
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> joy :-P
<slomo> who broke it? :P you? ;)
* ivoks strugles with his first merge package :)
<Nafallo> ey! I didn't touch it ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, haha, ita all your fault
<ogra> *its
* Nafallo blames gtk-bugs :-P
<Nafallo> ogra: will you be here a while? ;-)
<ogra> dunno, its late... i fight the last pieces of my jetlag and \sh is here... we'll probably drink...
<LaserJock> hi bmonty!
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<Nafallo> oki. just need a main uploader soon ;-).
<slomo> *sigh*
<Nafallo> slomo: ?
<slomo> librsvg2-2 disappeared completly...
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> nice :-P
<slomo> yes
<slomo> that will make almost every gnome package unbuildable and uninstallable :P
<slomo> oh, it was just me beeing stupid
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> then my syncs only need a give-back
<Nafallo> ehm
<slomo> hm, they're on "Building"
<slomo> ehm?
<slomo> shermans-aquarium
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> \sh_away's?
<LostSole> Anyone know if/when the AMD64 versions of mythtv on Breezy are all up to version .18.1 yet? I've seen a forum post saying "yes" but the repository looks like "no"...
<Nafallo> sherman != shermann ;-)
<Nafallo> OUCH!
<Nafallo> W: perlmagick: syntax-error-in-debian-changelog line 1680 "couldn't parse date Thr, 26 Aug 1999 19:55:02 +0200"
<Nafallo> wasn't me! ;-)
<slomo> lol
<Nafallo> ogra: still there? ;-)
<Nafallo> slomo: ajmitch_ are on holiday, right?
<slomo> no idea
<slomo> but i need a sponsor too now for main :P
<slomo> openssl
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> jbailey: here? :-)
<slomo> Nafallo: seems like noone is awake :(
<Nafallo> indeed :-/
<slomo> the lone mergers ;)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> get main-right please! :-P
<slomo> yes... in 4 days is TB meeting
<Nafallo> hehe
<slomo> but it won't help us here :P ok, for imagemagick... but for openssl i want someone else to review my changes
<Nafallo> that's when Keybuk is home ;-)
<zul> ttyl
<jbailey> Nafallo: Am now.
<Nafallo> jbailey: hi! I was looking for a main-sponsor, but tseng showed up :-).
<jbailey> Cool. =)
<jbailey> I'm mostly avoiding staring at the terminal today.
<Nafallo> oh? :-)
<Nafallo> why?
<jbailey> Just tired from the conference.
<Nafallo> ah oki :-)
<Nafallo> slomo: lpbugs.sh -s kazehakase, or do I need the bug#?
<slomo> bug# when you don't create a new bugreport
<Nafallo> oki, thanx
<Nafallo> lpbugs.py -s 4216 gives no output
<slomo> --help
<slomo> this will tell you how to use it :P
<slomo> -s -b 4216 packagename
<Nafallo> oh, I already looked at that. just didn't read all of it ;-)
<Nafallo> what does -u do? :-P
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> -s -b didn't work either :-P
<slomo> works fine for me :P
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> -u -s -b
<Nafallo> slomo: you liar! :-)
<slomo> lol
<Kyral> yo all
<Nafallo> morning Kyral :-)
<Kyral> WTF are you talking about its 1715! ;P
* Kyral admires his Panel'O'Sensors
<tseng> sigh
<Kyral> It was a joke tseng
<tseng> you have a constant attitude about everything =/
<Kyral> Me?
<tseng> yes, wtf this, goddamn that
<Kyral> tseng, one thing you should realize about me
<Kyral> 75% of what I say is BS :D
<tseng> you can say the other 75% somewhere else than
<tseng> we only work forwards here.
<Kyral> Its when I am quiet is when I am angry
<Nafallo> slomo: how long does it take before DaD understands I fixed something? :-P
<Nafallo> or sync != fixed? :-)
<tseng> Nafallo: DaD?
<slomo> Nafallo: set the bug to fixed... then maybe 5 minutes
<tseng> is that code for revu2 now
<Nafallo> tseng: sistpoty's thing :-)
<tseng> yes
<Nafallo> slomo: ah, so I should edit it after elmo synced :-)
<tseng> sistpoty++
<slomo> Nafallo: yes
* Nafallo agrees with tseng :-)
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> I can't -u -f -b :-P
<Nafallo> w00t!
<Nafallo> when did I touch ethereal? ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> typo fix?
<slomo> Nafallo: you did... ages ago :P
<Kyral> Oyah I need to email the FlowDesigner devs
<tseng> Nafallo: when you fixed it for me in hoary-security iirc
<Kyral> slomo, you said that they needed to install one of the libs into a different place?
<Nafallo> that didn't look like security-changes ;-)
<slomo> Kyral: i don't know what i've said... only that they need to fix sonames
<slomo> too long ago ;)
<Kyral> yah no kiddin'
<Kyral> it was only a week ago ;P
<slomo> yes... too long :P
<\sh> ogras gf is strange
<slomo> why? ;)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<sistpoty> bmonty: did katie mail you anything bout wesnoth?
<\sh> fck
<\sh> i'm totally drunk
<sistpoty> prost!
<Nafallo> :-)
<sistpoty> ' \sh: better don't upload to main then ;)
<slomo> \sh: prost :) what did you drink?
<slomo> sistpoty: but uploads to universe are fine? :P
<Nafallo> \sh: feel like implementing -f? (fixed) ;-)
<\sh> 0.3l barcadi black
<\sh> 0.2l coke
<sistpoty> slomo: good point ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: this is the best time
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> programming drunk is actually pretty cool... but debugging the day after sucks
<\sh> slomo: black barcadi
<\sh> and beer
<slomo> \sh: bah, i hate bacardi ;)
<\sh> slomo: the black one u likd
<\sh> like
<slomo> why?
<\sh> skal
<\sh> because it's tasting
<slomo> lol... well, i'll try it :) but for now i'll stay with gin tonic :P
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-17
<ajmitch_> hi
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch_
<slomo> hi ajmitch_ :)
<Nafallo> morning ajmitch_ :-)
* ajmitch_ isian't often greeted like this :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch_: most be because you are always here and greet us :-)
<ajmitch_> hah
* sistpoty just wonders if /me should lay hands on ghc6 again
<slomo> gn8 everybody :)
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hello LaserJock
<Nafallo> slomo_: ping
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> two clients... how irritating :-P.
<crimsun> Nafallo: asleep as of 45 minutes ago
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm processing your debdiffs
<Nafallo> crimsun: yea, saw backlog :-)
<Nafallo> when the binary names in sources have changed, do the binarys end up in NEW?
<crimsun> LaserJock: in the future, simply replace Scott's line with your own. No need to add an entry like "tested and built"
<crimsun> Nafallo: yep
<Nafallo> shit!
<Nafallo> I've been awake an hour waiting for them :-P
<crimsun> oops ;-)
<lfittl> I've finished packaging libcafix & cafix, how do I upload them to REVU now?
<LaserJock> crimsun: replace his completly? I just wanted to acknowledge the MoM work
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: if the names of binary packages are changed, they need to go through NEW, yes.
<crimsun> LaserJock: we know they're resyncs due to the description
<crimsun> (the changelog)
<Nafallo> irritating ;-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: ok
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: could you get NEW-rights please? ;-)
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: haha, elmo is the master of NEW and mdz + Kamion are backups, I don't think we really need more backups.
<Nafallo> hehe, I should sleep when I checked that livehttpheaders ended up where it should then ;-)
<Nafallo> I sure hope I'll see the binaries tomorrow when I wake up :-P
<LaserJock> crimsun: tex-guy isn't done yet, I needed vflib3
<LaserJock> crimsun: thanks so much for working on those for me, you rock
<crimsun> LaserJock: I just uploaded vflib3
<LaserJock> crimsun: right so I need to go back and do tex-guy, thanks
<edoardo> hi gals, hi dudes : )
<LaserJock> hi edoardo
<edoardo> you guys, would someone be willin' to make a deb package for me or teach me how to do one? i would prefer the first. it's for an audio conversion script i made. many ubuntu users have asked if i could make a deb, but i dunno how to and really don't have much time to learn, as i made and maintain the script, which is a lot of work, the installer, and the ebuild. it's already in the universecandidates wiki. it's called audio convert. anyo
<edoardo> ne? : ) thankyou! : )
<LaserJock> edoardo: didn't you put it on wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates?
<crimsun> url to REVU?
<edoardo> i did : )
<edoardo> what's revu?
<crimsun> it's a system for reviewing potential packages
<LaserJock> if you put it on UniverseCandidates, then somebody can make a deb package for it and submitted on REVU to get reviewed and accepted into Universe
<edoardo> well i did put it there, but i was tryin' to push things a little : ) you know, otherwise it might stay there for months : )
<crimsun> edoardo: we're currently very busy merging about 1600 packages
<crimsun> we only have a month to that
<lfittl> LaserJock: I have finished a package, how exactly do I submit it to REVU?
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<zul> hey
<LaserJock> has instructions
<lfittl> k
<tritium> LaserJock, I can't login yet...
<crimsun> hi chuck
<edoardo> hi dude : )
<LaserJock> tritium: to REVU?
<tritium> LaserJock, rigth
<tritium> right
<crimsun> tritium: ping sh/siretart/sistpoty when they're awake
<LaserJock> tritium: but in your email address and the do password recovery
<LaserJock> s/but/put
<tritium> crimsun, right, I remember.  Thanks again.
<edoardo> crimsun, maybe my script can be the 1601th? : )
<tritium> LaserJock, tried that
<crimsun> edoardo: I would go ahead and begin packaging it if I were you
<LaserJock> tritium: and did it email you your password
<edoardo> crimsun, well i don't know how, unless someone helps me out : )
<tritium> LaserJock, nope.  It gave me something to try to decode with gpg, but it was nothing
<crimsun> edoardo: there are some links from wiki/DeveloperResources
<LaserJock> tritium: that thing to decode has your password, you have to look hard
<tritium> LaserJock, I did.  It did not work as intended
<edoardo> crimsun, i can't do it. i'm doin' too much stuff. i can't take care of the deb, too. it's too complicated. i know you ain't got time, but does anyone else have any? help! : ) thankyou! : )
<LaserJock> tritium: hmm, when I ran gpg on it it has some stuff and then like 6-8 letters and that worked for me
<tritium> LaserJock, the only output I got was, literally, "None"
<tritium> anyway, just wanted to let you know I didn't look at those 2 scientific packages
<lfittl> edoardo: I could do it
<LaserJock> tritium: well, I guess I'm no help. Don't worry about the packages. They will get done when they get done.
<LaserJock> tritium: Kyral and I are busy with merges anyway
<minghua> I am confused with the freetype version in dapper
<tritium> ok, LaserJock
<Kyral> I'm folding laundry
<minghua> Daniel Holbach uploaded 2.1.10-1: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/000707.html
<minghua> but packages.ubuntu.com still says dapper has 2.1.7-2.4ubuntu1
<minghua> and indeed 2.1.10-1 builds: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/freetype/2.1.10-1/
<crimsun> libfreetype6 |   2.1.10-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
<crimsun>   freetype |   2.1.10-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
<edoardo> lfittl, really?
<lfittl> edoardo: Sure, is there anything special about the scripts, or should they just get installed to /usr/bin?
<crimsun> minghua: packages.u.c only syncs periodically.
<minghua> crimsun: thanks, then did Ubuntu developers have a solution to the libfreetype6 ABI changes?
<crimsun> minghua: you should use apt-cache directly
<crimsun> minghua: wrt what, CJK autohinting?
<minghua> crimsun: debian bug 314385 and the merged bugs?
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #314385: Bug does not exist
<minghua> crimsun: no, much worse than that
<LaserJock> poor Ubugtu got confused ;-)
<crimsun> minghua: ugh, no, not yet apparently since it was a straight sync
<edoardo> lfittl, there's a little problem. i mean, it can be used as a bash command line script, and then i just needs to go in /usr/bin. but this was intended to be more powerful and comfy. it was intended to be, and is, a nautilus scripts. so to take advantage of all of its functions it's got to go in ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts. which is why i made an installer for it, which is included in the tarball. the installer has to be run as user, not
<edoardo> root. basically, it links /usr/bin/audio-convert into ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts/
<edoardo> *script
<minghua> crimsun: 2.1.10 changed a lot of ABI in cache things
<crimsun> minghua: yeah ;(
<minghua> I think I need to raise this in ubuntu-devel list
<lfittl> edoardo: I have seen that, the problem is that .deb installs are always done as root, therefore the install script has to be executed manually by the user
<crimsun> I'm thinking a soname bump is in order
<edoardo> lfittl, i was told by a dude in this channel that it's not very sexy to have to do somethin' from command line after you install the script, but i see no other way of installin' it locally. and no, there's no such thing as a system-wide nautilus-scripts dir. for some reason : )
<minghua> crimsun: I would _love_ to get 2.1.10 in dapper as it fixes a lot of CJK issues, but the current situation will just break more stuff
<crimsun> yeah, it's already in dapper, but apparently lots of stuff is going to explode
<edoardo> lfittl, i know. for instance, i made the ebuild for gentoo. after the script is installed, there's two lines that pop and say, basically, 'now run audio-convert-install' as user and you'll be all set. is it doable in ubuntu?
<lfittl> edoardo: Sry, I don't know enough about that
<minghua> oh by the way, crimsun, do you have Asian ancestors?  (your family name looks Chinese to me)
<crimsun> minghua: my parents are from China originally but were raised in Taiwan
<sistpoty> tritium: did i read probs with revu?
<tritium> sistpoty, yes, I can't login, nor can I use the password restore
<lfittl> Has anybody else got an idea how to inform the user that he should execute a script after the package install?
<edoardo> crimsun, is it doable? a message that pops up like that? or maybe after you apt-get somethin' it opens /usr/bin in nautilus and all you gotta do is click on audio-convert-install once, and that's it?
<edoardo> lfittl, let's not give up. i'm almost sure it's more than doable
<sistpoty> tritium: do you get to a page which says "To decrypt your password, type the following into your shell:"...
<sistpoty> ?
<crimsun> edoardo: sorry, I haven't been reading scrollback. What are you trying to accomplish?
<tritium> sistpoty, yes, and I can decrypt it, but there is no content.
<sistpoty> edoardo, lfittl: I don't know much about gnome (i use kde), but isn't there a central place for nautilus-scripts?
<LaserJock> edoardo: couldn't you have your script look for it in the user's directory and if it's not offer to install it?
<sistpoty> tritium: write the pgp-message to a file, then do gpg -d --output mypasswordfile.txt messagefile
<edoardo> crimsun, the issue with my script is that to take full advantage of it, that is, right clickin' on audio files on nautilus and convertin' them, you gotta install it in ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts. so is there a way so that after you apt-get it displays a message sayin' 'now run audio-convert-install as user and you'll be all set'? or, open /usr/bin in nautilus and let you click on audio-convert-install as user?
<edoardo> sistpoty, there ain't none. for some reason
<crimsun> edoardo: we have the notifier subsystem, but I'd rather avoid it
<tritium> sistpoty, I'll see if that works...
<edoardo> LaserJock, you'd still have to run the script from command line once, so why not just run the installer? it's the same. the point is that after you run the installer, all you gotta do is right click on the audio files in nautilus, and choose which format to convert to : )
<crimsun> edoardo: it's best to make a README
<edoardo> crimsun, oh there is one. and it says exactly that. 'to make it work, run audio-conver-install'. is that enough?
<edoardo> *convert
<LaserJock> edoardo: you should have a man file anyway, I think
<crimsun> edoardo: yeah.
<crimsun> and yes, you should have a man page for it, too.
<minghua> edoardo: I think packages are usually not supposed to mess with users' home directories
<sistpoty> edoardo: you could also use debconf to display a message
<crimsun> minghua's absolutely correct
<edoardo> minghua, crimsun, the script ain't messin' with anythin'. there's an installer which you can run *if* you want to use it as a nautilus script. which is what virtually every user i communicated with wants
<minghua> edoardo: I think the best you can do is having a program (in /usr/bin) that install said script to user's ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts, then use debconf to give them a note at installation time
<tritium> sistpoty, the complete output is "None"
<edoardo> minghua, dude, it's what happens
<edoardo> minghua, except for the debconf thing. we were tryin' to figure that out
<sistpoty> tritium: hehe... seems like a NULL-entry in the db... I'll check
<tritium> sistpoty, thanks
<minghua> edoardo: so people run the script, and they get something in ~/.gnome2/nautilus-script, or they need to copy it over?
<edoardo> minghua, there's the script, and there's the installer. they both go into user bin. to have it as a nautilus script, you gotta run the installer as user. once.
<minghua> edoardo: I am not blaming you are messing up users' home, I'm just saying you shouldn't :-)
<minghua> edoardo: that sounds pretty good to me, you just need one debconf question (actually a note)
<edoardo> lfittl, still there? could you make the part that installs script and installer into usr/bin to begin with? we'll work on the debconf thing later. would that work out for you?
<sistpoty> tritium: what's your email in revu?
<sistpoty> (database has grown a bit *g*)
<lfittl> edoardo: k, just give me ~20min
<edoardo> minghua, cool. now i gotta figure out how to use debconf : )
<tritium> sistpoty, should be rimbert@purdue.edu (which I'll want to change, as my purdue email will expire very soon)
<tritium> that's what
<tritium> in the uploaders keyring
<edoardo> lfittl, if you follow the freshmeat link, it'll have an outdated version. i submitted the new one about thirty minutes ago. so when you're on the freshmeat page, go to the home page and get 0.3.1.1 from there
<sistpoty> tritium: did you upload anything to revu yet?
<edoardo> lfittl, that is, until they update the freshmeat link, which will probably happen in a couple of hours or so
<tritium> sistpoty, not revu, no
<lfittl> edoardo: k, which Packages should audio-convert depend on?
<sistpoty> tritium: hehe, then your account wasn't created yet...
<sistpoty> tritium: will be created on first upload
<tritium> sistpoty, all right, thanks.
<tritium> sorry for the hassle
<sistpoty> np ;)
<edoardo> lfittl, zenity and file >= 4.16. also, if you want to use it as a nautilus script, nautilus
<edoardo> lfittl, but i imagine most users will, so nautilus as well
<sistpoty> tritium: for email-change, just drop a mail to keyring, signed with a key for the new email-addy
<edoardo> lfittl, in gentoo i made it so that if you specify that you're gonna use it with gnome, you need nautilus, otherwise not. i dunno how you do that in ubuntu. but if it's too complicated just put nautilus in the dependencies : )
<tritium> sistpoty, for the ubuntu keyring, or revu?
<sistpoty> tritium: keyring@tiber.tauware.de is for revu
<edoardo> lfittl, also, if there's somethin' like an homepage value in the .deb, please set it to http://freshmeat.net/projects/audio-convert, not to the savannah homepage : )
<lfittl> edoardo: Ubuntu has nothing like USE_FLAGS, therefore we don't have a chance to find that out
<tritium> right, but I should also change for ubuntu too
<minghua> edoardo: I think in debian the general way to deal with this is building two packages, audio-convert and audio-convert-gnome, and have the latter depends on nautilus
<LaserJock> tritium: but what would you upload? You don't need REVU for uploads right?
<zakame> hello all
<tritium> LaserJock, anything to universe
<sistpoty> tritium: oh, you are a motu... and were approved the same day as /me *g*...
<edoardo> minghua, well ask lfittl how he feels about it, too. i would personally have no problem with it. but it would be *the same exact package*, except one depends on nautilus and one don't : ) that acceptable?
<tritium> sistpoty, yes, but it's been quite some time since I've uploaded anything
<tritium> And I'm totally clueless lately
<sistpoty> tritium: I'll create you an account for revu now... and set it to give you review rights (this must still be done by hand)
<edoardo> minghua, you will have to englighten us about how to issue that debconf message though : ) if you want : ) hopefully : )
<tritium> sistpoty, okay, thanks :)
<lfittl> minghua: you mean audio-convert-gnome should depend on audio-convert, and just consist of the install script for nautilus?
<minghua> lfittl: that depends how audio-convert works.  does the audio-convert work without the nautilus stuff?
<lfittl> minghua: yes
<edoardo> minghua, yeah, absolutely. all it needs is zenity
<sistpoty> tritium: try the recover pw from revu now ;)
<minghua> edoardo: I'm not familiar with debconf either.  but I'm interested in this package and willing to help.  is the debianized source somewhere?
<lfittl> edoardo: What is your full name? (I need it for the debian/copyright file)
<tritium> sistpoty, okay :)
<lfittl> minghua: I'm currently working on it
<minghua> lfittl: yeah, than it's what you said
<minghua> lfittl: if it's just a script, however, it's probably not worth a second package
<minghua> lfittl, edoardo: you can just put the nautilus script in and Recommends nautilus
<lfittl> minghua: k, that's maybe the best solution
<minghua> reasonable people should install recommends, or know what they are doing when ignoring recommends
<tritium> sistpoty, I got a password :)
<sistpoty> yehaa :)
<zakame> hmmmm, just to be sure, what does a sync and a merge mean again? ;p
<sistpoty> zakame: sync means take debian version without modification
<sistpoty> zakame: merge is if you need to change any bit
<edoardo> i'm back
<edoardo> was away
<zakame> sistpoty: ok, thanks :)
<edoardo> lfittl, the script is copyrighted to my software company, linfasoft. so you can copyright the deb to that too i guess?
<minghua> edoardo: your package *is* easy to install :-)
<sistpoty> tritium: do you know whether the keyring for ubuntu uploading is taken from LP? (or do i need to send a mail to elmo?)
<edoardo> minghua, i know : ) except that a user has to do it, and root can't
<lfittl> edoardo: sure
<crimsun> sistpoty: you still need to mail elmo
<tritium> sistpoty, I'm not sure, actually.   I think I read that my ubuntu.com email automatically works
<tritium> sistpoty, anyway, that's not something you have to do for me.  Thanks though :)
<sistpoty> crimsun: thx, will do...
<sistpoty> tritium: no, I have to do this for me actually *G*
<tritium> sistpoty, heh, okay :)
<minghua> edoardo: audio-convert-install have no use except installing audio-convert to user's home, correct?
<tritium> I setup my gmail.com account to use my ubuntu.com, so I believe I can upload from there
<sistpoty> at least that explains why my upload from last night disappeared silently *g*
<edoardo> minghua, correct
<edoardo> it links /usr/bin/audio-convert into ~/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts
<minghua> edoardo, lfittl: I think then maybe the best way is to put audio-convert-install in /usr/lib/audio-convert/, and have some nautilus dependency check in it
<zakame> sistpoty: just another clarification: does the sync sync from the source packages from mom, or from the unaltered debian archive?
<sistpoty> zakame: a sync is always done from debian unstable. otherwise it wouldn't be a sync ;)
<zakame> sistpoty: i see.  many thanks again :)
<crimsun> zakame: (we can sync from anything that has a Sources)
* minghua reads audio-convert and scroll through a bunch of european languages
<minghua> edoardo: you really should consider using gettext :-)
<crimsun> zakame: (but yes, generally we sync directly from Sid. In rare instances we sync from experimental)
<sistpoty> np zakame
<edoardo> minghua, it's got *many* translations
<edoardo> minghua, i wouldn't know how to use it : )
<edoardo> minghua, where are you from?
<minghua> edoardo: China
<zakame> crimsun: I was having second thoughts about classifiying my bugs on the wiki as `sync'.  Had a bit of confusion about the terms :(
<tritium> crimsun, so did jdub attend your trilug meeting last night?
<crimsun> tritium: yep
<edoardo> minghua, it would be cool if it were translated in chinese too : )
<tritium> pretty cool
<crimsun> yeah, his presentation rocked
<minghua> edoardo: no, I don't translate anything non-gettext :-P
<tritium> What was the topic?
<crimsun> tritium: Ubuntu, but it touched on a lot of tangents
<sistpoty> zakame: if you want to take MoM-package, this still is worth reporting in the bugreport... (ideally with link to MoMs debdiff)
<edoardo> minghua, maybe i'll pass to gettext. i've been havin' some issues with the translations, like charachters with accents which don't work in some distros, for instance. would gettext solve those issue? that's the main thing i'm concerned about : )
<tritium> crimsun, cool...
<zakame> sistpoty: yes, that was what I was about to ask :)  I found some the MoM-packages to be very good, I felt I would be just stealing if I made a debdiff to changelog just adding my name on it
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> zakame: but don't worry about "stealing"... since you actually tried to built and test the package, it's still your work
<minghua> edoardo: I think what you are talking is locale issues
<LaserJock> zakame:\sh told me if I build it and verify it, it is good to put it in the changelog
<minghua> edoardo: Is your script iso-8859-1?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: you mean "* tested and built"?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: which would be silly. You always have to test and built packages you want to upload
<edoardo> minghua, i dunno. i'm not big on translations. i just copied the way the original script did the french translation, and used it for all of the other ones : )
<minghua> edoardo: I can't figure out your encoding at all, you seem to be mixing them
<LaserJock> sistpoty: well if I tested and built the MoM stuff
<edoardo> minghua, i mean, i'm big on translations cause i like them a lot, but am not an expert of them : )
<minghua> edoardo: unfortunately, I don't know how to use gettext in shell scripts
<edoardo> lfittl, how it goin' over there? you doin' well? : )
<minghua> edoardo: but one important thing is to ask your translators what encoding they are using
<sistpoty> LaserJock: but this still doesn't make sense. just use "merge debian version" or s.th. like it
<lfittl> edoardo: yeah, just give me some time ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: but in the changelog
<edoardo> lfittl, no problem dude, just checkin' out on you : )
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't know, that is what \sh said
<lfittl> What does "dh_testdir: I have no package to build" mean?
<lfittl> or, how could that happen
<minghua> edoardo: what encoding is that polish translation?  it's not utf8, and I suppose polish don't use iso-8859-1 (latin1)
<edoardo> minghua, i have no idea. like i said, i dunno much about'em. a polish dude sent it to me. that's it. of course i could contact him and ask : )
<minghua> edoardo: I won't be surprised if people get wrong characters, your script did nothing about locale
<sistpoty> LaserJock: the only reason is, that if you do touch the changelog, the changed-by-field will be yours (you actually get the credit)... but you don't need to put useless stuff in the changelog to do this ;)
<zakame> sistpoty: so all you need to do after verifying is just touch the changelog with your name on it?
<LaserJock> sistpoty: hmm, I guess, most of mine I have actually had to do something so it hasn't been much of a problem
<sistpoty> zakame: yes
<zakame> ah
<edoardo> minghua, guess i'll have to work on that. if i had any idea how to, it'd be cool : )
<minghua> edoardo: well, at least ask your translators what their encoding is first.  I have some ideas, but without the knowledge of encoding I can't test
<zakame> hi SloMoSnail, Burgundavia
<edoardo> minghua, i think most of it is iso-8859-15 though : )
<edoardo> minghua, if not all of it : )
<lfittl> edoardo: package is finished, I'll just test it quickly
<edoardo> lfittl, very cool! go on! : )
<minghua> edoardo: here is a link about shell and gettext: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/localization.html
<minghua> edoardo: so it seems doable
<zakame> sistpoty, LaserJock: many thanks again :)
<sistpoty> zakame: np
<lfittl> edoardo: http://ixios-software.com/~lfittl/ubuntu/dapper/
<edoardo> lfittl, great job, except. did you use 0.3.1 or 0.3.1.1? cause the latter has a workin' install script : )
<lfittl> oh, sry wait got wrong version, just another ~5min ;)
<edoardo> : D
<edoardo> cause the freshmeat links are not updated yet
<edoardo> but almost nothin' changes really, only the name and the install script : )
<lfittl> i used the savannah downloads, but I simply took the one that was on the bottom of the page, and that was 0.3.1, 0.3.1.1 was above it ;)
<minghua> edoardo: no, iso-8859-15 doesn't work for me either
<edoardo> lfittl, also, linfasoft would go in lowercase : )
<edoardo> lfittl, you're doin' a really good job though, keep it up! : )
<lfittl> edoardo: finished
<edoardo> lfittl, super cool!
<edoardo> did you test it?
<edoardo> now all we need is have someone tell us how to display a debconf message! : )
<edoardo> anyone in here know anythin' about it? help! : ) thankyou! : )
<lfittl> I realized that file is too old in breezy to test it, and I dont have dapper yet, so I could not test it, that's your job ;)
<edoardo> what file does breezy have?
<lfittl> 4.12
<edoardo> uhm
<edoardo> cause the issue with the file i used to have was that it recognized mpc files as 'data' instead of 'Musepack'
<edoardo> but one i don't remember what version i had
<edoardo> two, i upgraded to the latest, but that don't mean that it's the one that's required
<edoardo> could you test on an mpc with your version of file?
<edoardo> maybe that works, too : )
<edoardo> all you gotta do is 'file -b filename.mpc'
<edoardo> and look at the output
<sistpoty> edoardo: there are some cool examples in debconf-doc
<lfittl> i don't have any mpc file, which encoder is needed?
<edoardo> mppenc
<edoardo> in the readme it says where to find it
<edoardo> i don't remember
<edoardo> : )
<edoardo> but i can look into it if you want : )
<lfittl> no package in the repositories for mppenc?
<edoardo> i dunno
<minghua> lfittl: you have a debian/.rules.swp in your package
<edoardo> i don't use ubuntu, i use gentoo. i'm doin' this cause many ubuntu users asked me if there's a deb around. also, i find ubuntu a very interestin' distro. but yup, i run gentoo : )
<lfittl> minghua: where is that one coming from?
<minghua> lfittl: your vim cache, I suppose?
<minghua> lfittl: quit your vim before running dpkg-buildpackage/debuild :-)
<lfittl> minghua: interesting, I am not using vim..
<minghua> lfittl: wait, it may be _my_ vim cache :-P
<edoardo> : D
<lfittl> :D
<minghua> lfittl: sorry, false alarm  //blush
<lfittl> no problem ;)
<edoardo> awright, so we've got the deb now
<edoardo> but someone oughtta test the breezy file on an mpc, to see if we can lower the dependency
<edoardo> or else i suppose no breezy user would be able to install it?
<lfittl> yes thats the problem
<LaserJock> edoardo: it won't go in breezy
<minghua> lfittl: now I have a really problem though - your package fail to clean itself
<LaserJock> edoardo: it will go in dapper
<minghua> lfittl: you need to call dh_clean in your debian/rules clean target
<lfittl> minghua: damn, I know I should have kept something there, sry
<edoardo> LaserJock, yeah, but what if some breezy user just wants to grab the deb now? i know some people who would like to do that : )
<LaserJock> edoardo: yeah, I suppose you could put it on your site
<edoardo> i know, that's what i intend to do
<lfittl> edoardo: we could just ignore that mpc issue, because there is no encoder/decoder in the ubuntu repositories, therefore almost nobody will use them
<sistpoty> or try to have it backported, once it's in dapper
<edoardo> but still no breezy user would be able to use it as of now, correct?
<bmonty> hey all
<edoardo> uhm...
<sistpoty> hi bmonty
<crimsun> lfittl: bzzt. There is.
<edoardo> hi bmonty, what's up? : )
<bmonty> sistpoty: did you get a chance to upload my wesnoth patch?
<lfittl> crimsun: which package?
<crimsun> lfittl: gstreamer0.8-musepack
<sistpoty> bmonty: I tried, but it disappeared silently... seems like I am not in the keyring yet :(
<crimsun> you guys should be coordinating with MOTUMedia
<edoardo> crimsun, but my script don't use gstreamer
<bmonty> siretart: ahh...that would be a problem :)
<crimsun> edoardo: that's not an issue. Look at libmpcdec3.
<sistpoty> bmonty: so it might take some time, till I have upload privileges... but then it's still first in the queue ;)
<edoardo> well could anyone check it on an mpc file? i would if i had file-4.12 : )
<crimsun> give me a url to an mpc
<lfittl> minghua: clean problem is now fixed
<sistpoty> edoardo: what does it need? mppenc-binary? I don't think that's anywhere in ubuntu (maybe there are patent issues or s.th. like that?)
<edoardo> i dunno
<edoardo> you can download the source of mppenc though
<edoardo> and the lincese for the binaries is lgpl
<edoardo> http://www.musepack.net/index.php?pg=lin
<crimsun> actually the library is BSD
<edoardo> yeah, the plugins are bsd, too
<edoardo> but the binaries are lgpl
<edoardo> for some reason
<edoardo> the full source code is lpgl, too : )
<crimsun> I like that
<edoardo> cool : )
<edoardo> anyone brave enough to download the encoder and test file -b filename.mpc?
<edoardo> i'm findin' no url's with mpc files, unfortunately : (
<edoardo> : )
<crimsun> maybe I can look at it later, need dinner now.
<edoardo> awright dude : )
<edoardo> anyone else?
<edoardo> : D
<lfittl> I am currently installing mppenc :)
<edoardo> super cool! : )
<bmonty> so when I fill a bug using \sh's scripts, how long does it take for the bug to show up in launchpad?
<sistpoty> bmonty: usually 1-2 minutes
<sistpoty> bmonty: which script do you use? lpbugs.py
<bmonty> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> bmonty: do you use sendmail or smtp?
<bmonty> smtp
<lfittl> edoardo: somehow the progess bar is not working when converting from .wav to .mpc
<sistpoty> hm...
<sistpoty> bmonty: maybe this will give you some insight: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc
<edoardo> works over here
<edoardo> it's not smooth, it's kinda edgy goin'. but it works : )
<lfittl> which version of mppenc do you have?
<edoardo> 1.15u
<LaserJock> bmonty: I can't use lpbugs.py either
<bmonty> its weird my setup appears to be correct
<lfittl> hmm mine is 1.15v
<lfittl> could you just send me a sample .mpc file?
<edoardo> sure
<edoardo> how?
<sistpoty> bmonty, LaserJock: have tried the newest version? iirc \sh said today he fixed some smtp-stuff
<bmonty> brb
<lfittl> if it's small enough, per mail
<edoardo> 1,2mb is what i got
<LaserJock> sistpoty: no, I haven't. My Ubuntu box is not on today (power shut off at school).
<lfittl> k, send it to lfittl@ixios-software.com
<edoardo> sendin'...
<edoardo> ... sent : )
<lfittl> file -b gives data :/
<edoardo> to me gives 'Musepack SV7'
<edoardo> *it gives
<lfittl> that means audio-converter will only be available in dapper, or should we just ignore mpc?
<edoardo> we should ignore mpc. or maybe put a warnin' about it? like, don't use it to *decode* mpc's. encodin' would work fine
<lfittl> were should we put that warning?
<edoardo> i've got no idea
<edoardo> either
<edoardo> README
<edoardo> or in the debconf message
<edoardo> provided we ever find out how to display it
<edoardo> : )
<edoardo> like, you put
<edoardo> 'if you want to *decode* mpc files you *need* file >= 4.16. every other function will work fine'
<edoardo> or somethin' like that
<sistpoty> I'm off to bed... good night everyone
<lfittl> You will have some time to figure out a good way, because I seriously need some sleep (it's 4:00 local time for me..)
<edoardo> good night dude! : )
<edoardo> yeah, me too : )
<lfittl> gn8 everyone
<edoardo> goodnight
<edoardo> see ya tomorrow! : )
<lfittl> yeah :)
<asewd> If trying to get started in helping out, where's a good place to find a list of things to be done?
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
<asewd> awesome, thanks
<bmonty> LaserJock: any luck with the lpbigs script?
<bmonty> er...lpbugs
<LaserJock> bmonty: unfortunately, I am without my Ubuntu box today. My university decided to shut down the power today.
<bmonty> that sucks
<LaserJock> bmonty: so I have been looking at wiki and documentation and working on MOTUScience
<bmonty> cool
<bmonty> seems like I have messed with the scripts more than playing with the packages tonight
<LaserJock> :-)
<bmonty> but I keep getting interrupted and leaving the computer
<LaserJock> have you had any luck with lpbugs.py? I assume no
<bmonty> damn...thunderbird just pinged and I was hoping it was email from Malone...but no it was spam :(
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> do you get any error messages or anything with \sh's script
<bmonty> no
<bmonty> it looks like everything works correctly, but I don't think the email is being sent
<bmonty> your launchpad ID is the name in parenthesis below my real name on my user page, right?
<LaserJock> yeah, think so
<LaserJock> Do you have the lates version of lpbugs.py?
<LaserJock> latest
<bmonty> I just downloaded them about 10 mins ago
<LaserJock> hmm, I know that other people have gotten it to work with smtp so it must be us ;-)
<bmonty> brb, gotta get a bottle for the baby
<LaserJock> bmonty: oh yeah, how's that going?
<bmonty> its great
<bmonty> I'm getting used to less sleep :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: how much you getting now?
<bmonty> he wakes up to get fed about every 2-3 hours
<LaserJock> hmm, that reminds me why I don't have kids ;P
<bmonty> its easy for guys....my wife has it harder since she has to do the feeding
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> both my brother and brother-in-law have had kids this year. It's fun for my wife and I 'cause we get to see them and then leave them with their parents
<LaserJock> well, actually their wives had the kids ;P
<bmonty> yeah....thats what I used to do
<bmonty> :)
<bmonty> be the cool uncle that gives drum sets for xmas
<LaserJock> oh, I don't think so. I will get in big trouble. But I will at least get them high on sugar
<bmonty> this is weird, my mail server rejects mail from the script but takes it from thunderbird
<bmonty> oh well....too late to figure this out tonight
<bmonty> good night LaserJock
<Kyral> This is gonna sound stupid, but it feels so good to take a long warm shower with a washcloth fresh outta the dryer
<highvoltage> yes, that does sound a bit stupid, bit completely believable.
<highvoltage> s/bit/but
<Kyral> especially after a long day ;P
<highvoltage> :)
<Kyral> Who said us Hackers can't feel good :D
<Amaranth> Who said us hackers can't bathe?
<Kyral> I meant who said us Hackers can't do stupid shit like enjoy a warm shower ;P
<Kyral> I'm just worn down
<Kyral> I keep helping and helping and helping
<Kyral> Shoot I want a new keyboard. I don;t use the damn numpad
* Kyral pulls out a hacksaw and cuts the numpad off his keyboard
<highvoltage> now and again the human element takes over. you can't fight nature.
<Kyral> ??
<minghua> crimsun: did you have time to look at the cppunit package?
<minghua> crimsun: malone bug 4173
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4173: cppunit: merge new debian version Fix req. for: cppunit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4173
<crimsun> minghua: we're going to ask for a sync, correct?
<crimsun> minghua: I'm just going to process a few more merges, then I'll ask elmo for a sync
<minghua> crimsun: yes, only a sync is needed
<minghua> crimsun: thanks, just to make sure you didn't forget :-)
<crimsun> nope, I haven't :-)
<pef> hello
<tsume> hey, how can I see what package came from what repos?
<tsume> the qt4-dev-tools package is buggy, and this is a bug to where it should be updated in the package repos
<janimo> pbuilder question
<janimo> I get uninstallable package deps in pbuilder, whereas they install fine in dapper
<janimo> AFACT the pbuilder is up to date too
<janimo> shouldn'y pbuilder update do it?
<janimo> -> Trying libgoffice-1-dev
<janimo>        -> Cannot install libgoffice-1-dev; apt errors follow:
<janimo> in dapper that package installs fine
<Nafallo> yes it should
<janimo> hmm
<janimo> and ~/.pbuilderrc is set to dapper
<janimo> that has precedence over /etc/pbuilder as I see it
<janimo> MIRRORSITE=http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<janimo> DISTRIBUTION=dapper
<janimo> APTCONFDIR=/home/jani/.pbuilder/apt/
<janimo> OTHERMIRROR="deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe"
<janimo> this is what I have in .pbuilderrc
<janimo> hmm I got it now
<janimo> it seems I have to copy the sources.list from /etc/apt all the time
<janimo> I should have linked to that
<janimo> I do not like mucking with /etc I'd rather keep everything in home
<Nafallo> you could always log in and run sed :-)
<Nafallo> sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
<janimo> hmm gotta check that out
<janimo> wait a minute it's not that
<Nafallo> oh?
<janimo> where does pbuilder keep it's pkgcache.bin?
<janimo> I expect apt-get update is the same as pbuilder update
<janimo> the former for /var/cache/apt the other
<janimo> for wherever pbuilder keeps it
<janimo> pbuilder update updates the base.tgz
<janimo> does it also update the list of packages available on the net just as apt-get update does?
<Nafallo> so does --save-after-login
<Nafallo> yes
<janimo> or do I have to unpack and apt-get update inside the chroot?
<Nafallo> that's why it re-create the base.tgz
<janimo> so pbuilder update only updates the base system, without updating the list of available packages in there, unless you tell it too
<Nafallo> nope
<janimo> I think I understand a bit more now, thanks Nafallo
<Nafallo> it does what apt-get update does
<Nafallo> and then re-creates the base.tgz to keep that information
<janimo> yes but the baze.tgz - the chrooted enviroment - has it's internal /etc/apt/ and /var/cache/apt
<janimo> I assume those need to be updated explicitely
<Nafallo> yes
<Nafallo> through sudo pbuilder update
<janimo> but I have done that and does not work :(
<janimo> I'll dig some more
<Nafallo> k
<siretart> morning
<siretart> crimsun: pong
<Nafallo> morning siretart :-)
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<Gloubiboulga> I've just made a debian native package, so no diff.gz file is created
<Gloubiboulga> Is there any way to create it ? but maybe it's not essential...
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: well, there are some packages where native is warranted
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: in general, when packaging stuff which upstream distributes as tarball, please make non native packages
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> what is the best way to do it when a debian directory is included in the sources ?
<Nafallo> tell upstream to stop being silly! :-)
<Gloubiboulga> I can do that :)
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: in general, upstream should not distribute a debian directory.
<siretart> Gloubiboulga: if they really want to provide packages, they could do that in the same way debian or ubuntu does: in a seperate .diff.gz file
<Gloubiboulga> I'll ask the author to do so
<Gloubiboulga> thanks for the answers
<siretart> in general, when I package software which comes with distributed debian/ dir, I tend to delete the debian dir, and do the packaging myself. When building the source package, I diff against the real 'orig' tarball. that way the .diff.gz gets unreadable, but *shrug*
<Gloubiboulga> ok siretart, I've just sent a email to the author
<Gloubiboulga> He will certainly remove the directory
<Gloubiboulga> if not, well... I'll do it
<Nafallo> can I attach debdiffs to debianbugs and they will show up in the report?
<siretart> sure
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<Nafallo> since valknut have to wait for libdc0 to be synced we might aswell be able to sync valknut later then ;-)
<crimsun> siretart: tritium had a REVU question, but it was cleared up
<siretart> crimsun: ah, great :)
<sivang> remorning all
<sivang> morning siretart
<siretart> huhu sivang
<sivang> siretart: WHat's up? how are works advancing?
<siretart> sivang: yeah, I'm currently on mergin avifile, I hope I manage that before lunch :)
<siretart> sivang: how are you?
<sivang> siretart: pretty good, finishing my dapper debootstrap setup, and then should take some easy packages to start with
<SloMoSnail> Nafallo: pong
<sivang> siretart: maybe we should add instructions to the wiki about getting the dapper bootstrap package?
<Nafallo> slomo: when did I ping you again? :-)
<slomo> around 1:00
<Nafallo> ah, can't remember then :-)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> wasn't that important then ;)
<sivang> hmm, guys - do we have a dapper debootstrap package? I can't find it while searching on p.u.c
<slomo> it's included with debootstrap iir
<slomo> c
<Nafallo> oh!
<sivang> slomo: you mean, when using the breezy one?
<slomo> the dapper one
<Nafallo> slomo: libmagick9-dev is probably in NEW ;-)
<sivang> slomo: this is what I got when searching for the dapper one, http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=debootstrap&searchon=names&subword=1&version=breezy&release=all
<slomo> Nafallo: perfect :)
<slomo> sivang: "version=breezy"
<sivang> slomo: hmm, I searched wrong didn't I ? :)
<siretart> sivang: sure, good idea, just add some instructions. If unsure, ask someone here to correct it
<sivang> siretart: I'll add what I've just found :)
<Nafallo> anyone know when Debian is moving to python2.4?
<slomo> hopefully soon
<slomo> almost all of the python packages changes are caused by that ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: just say "no" when you don't know ;-)
<slomo> hopefully soon is the same as "no but i want that too" :P
<sivang> ok, done :)
<slomo> Nafallo: you'll get a new banshee later :P
<Nafallo> slomo: yay! :-)
<sivang> now I'll check if using the dapper debootstrap on breezy works
<sivang> slomo: how do you know that a package is being held by some maintainer?
<Nafallo> siretart: dude, duplicate bugs for avifile?
<sivang> slomo: (as you just requested lamont to give it away)
<siretart> Nafallo: just marked it as dup, there was a bug in lpbugs.py
<slomo> sivang: ?
<sivang> slomo: sorry, you asked him to "give back" . I'm just interested to know what that means
<Nafallo> siretart: oh? what was it?
<slomo> sivang: i told them to give it back to the buildds because it failed to build before because of a temporary error
<sivang> slomo: ah :)
<sivang> slomo: but there is a way to hold back a apcakge, right ?
<sivang> (from hitting the archive)
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> probably... but i don't know how ;)
<slomo> just don't upload in that case :P
<siretart> Nafallo: delivery via local sendmal was broken in \sh latest commit
<siretart> \sh: please merge the fix from my branch
<Nafallo> ouch
<sivang> slomo: ah ok. PLease excuse my questions all the time, but you're very happy motu bunch which is nice to be around and learn from
* sivang high fives the currently online motu team
<slomo> sivang: no need to excuse you :)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> my mail doesn't arrive on launchpad it seems :-/
<Nafallo> must be because of siretart spamming it :-P
<siretart> hrhr
<slomo> Nafallo: hehe and debian seems to be ready for banshee now :) expect a new version with no -0ubuntuX soon ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: :-)
<slomo> oh no
<slomo> librsvg is till broken
<sivang> yay, debootstrap package installed
<Nafallo> siretart: have you told your smtp to stop yet? :-)
<sivang> now just to wait for the bootstrapping, maybe watch a movie meanwhile and come back when finished :)
<siretart> Nafallo: I don't think anymore the problem is on my side
<sivang> avifile contionue to be reported :
<Nafallo> siretart: so now we just have to wait for the servers to process the bugs so my changes might show up tomorrow or something? ;-)
<siretart> I'll ask in #launchpad
<Nafallo> mailq is you friend anyway :-)
<sivang> Nafallo: what is mailq?
<Nafallo> shows the mail queue
<sivang> Nafallo: nice, does it do that on launchapd?
<Nafallo> mailq is for looking at your local mail queue.
<Nafallo> if siretart still have things inthere mail still wants to get out.
<Nafallo> which is bad :-P
<Nafallo> if it's empty the problem is probably launchpad.
<siretart> Nafallo: there are now mails left im my mail queue
<Nafallo> that's what I thought.
<Nafallo> any estimate how many there ever were? ;-)
<siretart> 2
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> odd
<siretart> thats what confuses me
<Nafallo> maybe launchpad isn't good at handling identical mails
<edoardo> hi gals, hi dudes : )
<edoardo> lfittl, ya there dude? : )
<hunger> Anyone having trouble creating a pbuilder environment?
<hunger> I tried to follow the howto, but pbuilder create does run into trouble.
<lfittl> edoardo: yep :)
<\sh> siretart: good morning
<\sh> siretart: did i break local sendmail sending?
<edoardo> lfittl, uh, ok : )
<edoardo> so we've got the deb
<edoardo> which is good
<siretart> \sh: yeah, I already fixed that
<siretart> \sh: just merge from my branch, the diff is obvious
<lfittl> edoardo: Should we still try to print out a debconf message?
<Nafallo> siretart: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools?
<siretart> hunger: try creating a breezy chroot, and upgrade that to dapper
<siretart> (as described in the howto on the wiki)
<edoardo> lfittl, well that was the point
<siretart> Nafallo: yeah
<\sh> siretart: synced
<edoardo> i've got a couple of questions though
* Nafallo tried to pull but didn't get a fix :-/
<edoardo> will the deb work on debian and on breezy, too? right now i mean
<\sh> siretart: u didn't commit...
<\sh> siretart: the fix is emailtext
<siretart> oh
<\sh> fixed in my branch
<\sh> :)
<siretart> \sh: I didnt push
<lfittl> edoardo: I believe it will work on debian too, but since I don't have debian installed, I can't test it
<siretart> please retry merging
<Nafallo> that worked better :-)
<edoardo> lfittl, how did we handle the file issue so far?
<\sh> Nafallo: tls is working now for you?
<Nafallo> \sh: ofcourse, until lp broke anyway.
* siretart doesn't understand why so many ppl seem to refuse to configure a local mta
<siretart> hi sistpoty!
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> siretart: you spam my inbox ;)
<\sh> siretart: actually for a laptopsystem it's not important :) but now we have two system for lpbugs
<\sh> Nafallo: what about lp?
<Nafallo> siretart: why run a service that is more properly running on my /server/ on my /laptop/.
<lfittl> edoardo: still not sure about that problem, I would say we simply depend on file, and add a note to the readme that file (>= 4.16) is needed for mpc to work
<Nafallo> \sh: you haven't checked universe-bugs? ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: nah...what's up
<Nafallo> look and you will understand ;-)
<siretart> Nafallo: you run many services on your laptop, that are only accessible from localhost. and I want to be able to send mail from ANY application WITHOUT configuring each one manually (yeah, I use SMTP-AUTH with TLS too!)
<siretart> your choice
<Nafallo> no, I don't :-)
<siretart> oh, so you love the painful way.. interesting :)
<Nafallo> apt-proxy, sshd, cupsys :-)
<edoardo> lfittl, well we can get rid of the dependency at this point. i think virtually everyone has file
<Nafallo> sshd is only used for backup
<siretart> sistpoty: that spamming is imo a bug in launchpad, there seems that a submission mail was not cleaned up
<siretart> sistpoty: sorry for that, but I fear we have to wait until one of the launchpad crew gets up
<sistpoty> siretart: omg =)
<sistpoty> hehe
<lfittl> edoardo: is there any good reason to get rid of it?
<edoardo> lfittl, well no. but at this point let's add a dependency on awk, too, since the progress bars depend on that
<edoardo> lfittl, but it thought everyone had awk
<lfittl> edoardo: That does not mean that we should not depend on it ;)
<sistpoty> just a silly bzr question: I've got a repo under public_html/MergeWebTool and public_html/MoM is a branch of that. No I fixed a typo in mergeWebTool and want to get this to MoM. What do I do?
<edoardo> lfittl, good good, let's depend on it
<edoardo> i don't think there's a package named awk though
<edoardo> it's gawk
<Nafallo> or mawk :-)
<irvin> has lighttpd made it to the universe yet?
<tseng> no.
<tseng> no one has responded about packaging problems
<siretart> irvin: did you submitt that package?
<irvin> no
<\sh> avifile?
<\sh> duplicate bugs?
<Nafallo> \sh: and they keep coming
<\sh> what the hell
<Nafallo> indeed
<Nafallo> they block all new mails to ;-)
<siretart> \sh: see #launchpad
<siretart> Nafallo: oh. intersting
<\sh> siretart: yeah
<\sh> funny
<\sh> siretart: because of the empty email of the sendmail stuff in lpbugs?
<lfittl> edoardo: Package now updated to "Depends: file, zenity, gawk | mawk"
<irvin> anyway thanks all, i hope someone could work on it.
<edoardo> lfittl, how did we choose to solve the nautilus thingy?
<siretart> \sh: empty mail? sorry?
<lfittl> edoardo: "Recommends: nautilus"
<siretart> \sh: btw, did you merge my branch?
<edoardo> lfittl, good : )
<edoardo> now...
<edoardo> uh, the debconf message
<edoardo> you guys, does anyone in here know how to display messages to the user after you apt-get a package, through debconf maybe?
<\sh> siretart: yepp
<slomo> is LP/malone insane?
<siretart> yeah :/
<tseng> slomo: you sound suprised
<edoardo> be back after lunch
<Nafallo> lol
<sistpoty> at least we now avifile is pretty hard to merge *g*
<slomo> tseng: well, this is more than the normal problems ;)
<sistpoty> know even
<edoardo> lfittl, try to ask someone, awright? see ya later! : )
<lfittl> edoardo: We could just include this in the package description..
<\sh> siretart: the bug in lpbugs was the usage of the wrong variable (mail instead of mailtext)
<\sh> siretart: it send out an empty mail
<sistpoty> slomo: new ghc6 is in debian, which will build with gcc4... that means we'll have to rebuild all packages that build-depend on ghc6
<slomo> sistpoty: np :)
<sistpoty> slomo: :)
<siretart> \sh: I got an exception because of undefined variable
<siretart> \sh: so I doubt a mail was sent at all
<slomo> sistpoty: haskell-cabal is funny this time... it got the Depends right... >= 6.2 << 6.4... we don't have such ghc6... shall i merge it?
<\sh> siretart: ah ok
<slomo> sistpoty: i.e. sync it
<siretart> do we want kernel modules in universe?
<slomo> siretart: you ask because of the rtlxyz upload in revu? that's what i asked myself each time I saw this upload ;)
<slomo> siretart: better get this to BenC for inclusion in the kernel
<slomo> imho
<sistpoty> slomo: go for it... what I've read is that cabal from ghc6 is older than actual haskell-cabal
<slomo> sistpoty: it doesn't break the buildd chroots anymore and is not installable ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: hmmm... but they're not installable side by side
<siretart> slomo: just commented on that
<siretart> like that
<siretart> lets archive that, I want revu to clean up
<slomo> siretart: fine :)
<siretart> I think we should be much more aggressive with archiving
<slomo> siretart: btw, your mails have no From :P
<siretart> wuz?
<sistpoty> slomo: go for it, if the depends are fine :)
<slomo> siretart: the one to -devel
<siretart> intersting..
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, i need to test something before i ask for a sync... but yes ;)
<siretart> From: siretart@tauware.de <siretart@tauware.de>
<siretart> it has!
<sistpoty> slomo: not a bad thing... I still need a day for new ghc6, if we're lucky, elmo is slower than the buildds ;)
<lfittl> siretart: Is there any chance that you will accept a gpg-key for REVU upload that is not signed?
<slomo> sistpoty: you already requested a sync but you're not entirely sure it works? ;)
<siretart> lfittl: sure
<sistpoty> slomo: I didn't request a sync... I'm working on a merge (gl/glu-transition left)
<sistpoty> slomo: args... now the sync/merge also got me :)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> let's sync the merge :P
<sistpoty> *g*
<sistpoty> slomo: and i meant that hopefully elmo will not sync some other haskell-packages (i requested) before i merged ghc6 :)
<slomo> hehe... then make ghc6 top-priority :)
<tseng> dont do that..
<tseng> elmo is slow
<tseng> if not it can be given back
<slomo> tseng: no... can't be given back because it builds fine... just needs a rebuild after the new ghc6 is in
<siretart> sistpoty: from what I've seen, there is a another, new gl/glu transition with the new xorg7
<slomo> *sigh*
<siretart> sistpoty: I'd say lets go on with other merges until the xorg7.0 packages get built and settled in dapper
<slomo> sistpoty: i need new ghc6 before haskell-cabal :P "-> Considering  ghc6 (>= 6.4.1)"
<slomo> ok, let's merge axiom before... some lisp magic :)
<tseng> does --disable-howl for gnomevfs affect avahi?
<tseng> i guess i should rtfc
<lfittl> siretart: what's the public key of keyring@tiber.tauware.de? (need that one to send the message encrypted)
<siretart> lfittl: no, please don't encrypt mails to that address
<siretart> lifeless: it is a small remailer to the persons in charge
<slomo> tseng: gnome-vfs only has howl support currently... either use avahi from cvs with the compatibility libs or disable it ;)
<siretart> lifeless: which is atm sistpoty, me and \sh
<tseng> slomo: sigh..
<siretart> s/lifeless/lfittl/
<siretart> g
<lfittl> siretart: message sent :)
<slomo> elmo doesn't work on weekends?
<siretart> I don't think so
<slomo> ok, so no syncs atm
<tseng> only if the DC blows up :)
<ogra> slomo, the conference ended yesterday ....
<ogra> he'll be in the air ...
<siretart> perhaps the rest of the lp crew too
<siretart> :/
<slomo> maybe i should make a procmail rule for moving the LP spam to /dev/null...
<siretart> I'm collecting these mails atm for a mass duplicate mail
<tseng> Nafallo: oooh new trac!
<siretart> slomo: do you have a minute to look at this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=608
<slomo> sure
<slomo> what shall i do?
<siretart> slomo: I want to get that off revu, since these are very minor this you mentioned, I'll fix that up myself and upload it
<siretart> slomo: just say me if you object ;)
<slomo> no... just do it :)
<siretart> okay
<siretart> please advocate it to get it right in revu
<slomo> done :)
<slomo> i wonder how this theme looks like ;)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> slomo: perhaps like this: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22989
<slomo> hm, i like it :)
<slomo> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=834
<slomo> this is the iconset for that
<tseng> gperfection gets old really fast
<tseng> its very monotone
<slomo> uh yeah... 40 mb of compressed sources :) that's something for this afternoon ;)
<edoardo> lfittl, maybe
<edoardo> let's ask someone
<edoardo> you guys, this is our situation. a package requires that, to make it work as a nautilus script, you run the installer after you've apt-got the package. we were advised to inform the user through a debconf message. but we don't know how to do that. is it as good to inform the user about this in the package description? does it normally get read? thankyou! : )
<lfittl> siretart: Which files have to be included in a REVU upload? Only _source.changes, .orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc?
<siretart> lfittl: please use dput to get these files uploaded
<lfittl> siretart: sure, that means "dput revu *_source.changes" right?
<siretart> lfittl: yeah. be sure that the changes file lists the .orig.tar.gz
<edoardo> lfittl, does package description get read, usually?
<lfittl> edoardo: I would say yes, because normally you want to know what you install ;)
<siretart> Fuddl: around? (sry, wrng chan)
<herve> hello
<siretart> Fuddl: did you read sistpotys comment on your nexuiz package?
<Fuddl> siretart: nope, not yet
<siretart> Fuddl: there was just some minor glitches, I'd like to hear your opinon on that
<siretart> Fuddl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=805
<Fuddl> siretart: k, read the comments. i'll fix it tonight or tomorrow, as i'm too busy atm
<siretart> Fuddl: oaky
<edoardo> lfittl, awright, so i guess... we can submit it to revu?
<siretart> edoardo: which package are you working on?
<lfittl> audio-convert
<minghua> morning everyone
<lfittl> edoardo: wait 10min, I'm currently submitting another package to revu
<minghua> Hmm, I see that siretart is trying to single-handedly get malone bug number to 5 digit :-)
<edoardo> siretart, audio-convert
<hunger> damn... pbuilder create keeps failing.
<hunger> debootstrap itself works fine.
<hunger> I think I'll just debootstrap manually and then use lvm snapshots instead of pbuilder.
<ogra> hunger, just use a breezy pbuilder and upgrade
<hunger> ogra: same error with both breezy and dapper.
<ogra> strange, worked here
<hunger> ogra: Do you have the newest pbuilder? It was updated today.
<ogra> but that was last week... who knows what broke inbetween
<hunger> ogra: I guess using snapshots is faster anyway:-)
<lfittl> edoardo: I will upload audio-convert now to revu, k?
<hunger> I do not need to list build-essential in the build depends, do I?
<edoardo> lfittl, sure
<edoardo> lfittl, in the meantime, can i put the deb on my savannah homepage and link it to freshmeat.net?
<lfittl> edoardo: k, i will update the .deb on my server
<lfittl> edoardo: http://ixios-software.com/~lfittl/ubuntu/dapper/audio-convert_0.3.1.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<highvoltage> i tried again with another package, this time i get this error:
<highvoltage> gpg: skipped "Scott James Remnant <scott@ubuntu.com>": secret key not available
<highvoltage> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<highvoltage> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<highvoltage> debuild: fatal error at line 788:
<highvoltage> running debsign failed
<highvoltage> does that mean I need to chang the package maintainer line to my name?
<siretart> highvoltage: perhaps you should try signing with YOUR key? ;)
<siretart> highvoltage: no, just use 'dch' to edit the changelog
<highvoltage> oh my word, there's actually such a thing as dch.
<lfittl> edoardo: REVU upload finished: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=897
<hunger> highvoltage: Maybe Scott will give you his secret key if you ask nicely and explain your problem properly?;-)
<highvoltage> hehe. yeah, right.
<hunger> highvoltage: I guess "properly" will include physical violence;-)
<highvoltage> should i leave scott's name at the top and just put in my full name where my username is?
<highvoltage> now it says gpg: skipped "jonathan <jonathan@ubuntu.com>": secret key not available
<highvoltage> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<highvoltage> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<highvoltage> where should I specify my key?
<hunger> highvoltage: You have a key, do you?
<slomo> -kKEYID
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> ok, lemme try that
<siretart> lfittl: where did you guys get file 4.16 from? ;)
<edoardo> lfittl, cool. now what happens?
<edoardo> siretart, i have it on gentoo
<siretart> edoardo: I'm just having a look at it
<herve> use the -k<youremail> parameter
<highvoltage> does "debuild -k CD622E56" look right?
<highvoltage> i get debuild: fatal error at line 765:
<highvoltage> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<herve> remove the space after -k
<siretart> lfittl: did you check the lintian output?
<lfittl> siretart: You mean the two missing manpages?
<siretart> lfittl: please correct the fsf address and try to provide a manpage. Something silly like help2man is okay
<lfittl> siretart: what's the correct fsf address?
<slomo> lintian -i bla.deb will tell it
<siretart> lifeless: http://www.fsf.org/about/contact.html
<highvoltage> Successfully signed dsc and changes files
<highvoltage> yippee!
<lfittl> siretart: in which is the fsf adress referenced?
<lfittl> s/which/which file
<highvoltage> sp what do i do now?
<highvoltage> s/sp/so
<lfittl> siretart: sry found it
<minghua> ls
<highvoltage> i have the 3 .deb files built for pygame, what do i do with them now?
<siretart> highvoltage: the .debfiles are highly unintresting for us. we need the sourcepackage, consisting of the .dsc, the .diff.gz and the .orig.tar.gz
* highvoltage copies that into gedit
<highvoltage> siretart: do i need to upload them somewhere?
<siretart> highvoltage: what did you exactly do? what do you have?
<highvoltage> to copy from gedit:
<highvoltage> 1. Download files from http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<highvoltage> 2. dpkg-source -x bla.dsc
<highvoltage> 3. cd newdir
<highvoltage> 4. dch
<highvoltage> 5. debuild -kCD622E56
<highvoltage> and now i have a bunch of new files in the directory i've been working in
<highvoltage> which is called 'pygame', just one level up from 'pygame-1.7.1-release'
<siretart> highvoltage: ah, so you are working on merges
<siretart> highvoltage: the most convinient way for us to review would be to show us the debdiff
<highvoltage> siretart: sorry, i suppose i should've mentioned that :)
<lfittl> edoardo: are there any command line parameters for audio-convert?
<lfittl> edoardo: except the file that should be converted
<siretart> highvoltage: did you do any manual work or do you want to say that the automatically created mom merge from scott is okay?
<edoardo> lfittl, no, there's none.
<edoardo> lfittl, you choose all of the options through zenity
<highvoltage> siretart: i don't know what mom is.
<siretart> highvoltage: mom is merge'o'matic
<highvoltage> siretart: but no, I didn't need to do any manual work
<siretart> highvoltage: it is the script that produces http://p.u.c/~scott/ongoing-merger
<siretart> highvoltage: okay, in that case, I think it is okay to say this in the malone bugreport you created, and tell us here
<highvoltage> siretart: thanks so much for your help on this. is there a template or a structured way i should enter the bug report, or is it free form?
<Gloubiboulga> as I am a *very* good maintainer, i've lost my *_source.changes file...
<Gloubiboulga> How can I create it again ?
<siretart> highvoltage: you can use the script we created yesterday
<highvoltage> i couldn't get it to work yesterday, but i'll try again.
<highvoltage> oh no, i tried a scrip that was created on wednesday.
<highvoltage> siretart: so you have a link to the script that was created yesterday?
<siretart> highvoltage: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<siretart> we (espc. \sh) did a great job on improving it
<highvoltage> brb (dinner calls)
<pef> Gloubiboulga: dpkg-buildpackage :)
<Gloubiboulga> pef: merci ;) I try a few things to see if it's okay
<highvoltage> siretart: i run lpbugs.py, and it exits without giving an error message, does that mean it was successful?
<siretart> highvoltage: I'm just committing a version which is a bit more verbose.
<siretart> highvoltage: in short: it did nothing because you did not specify what to do. please redownload it
<lfittl> siretart: After fixing the issues with audio-convert, should I just run "dput revu *_source.changes" again?
<siretart> lfittl: yes please
<lfittl> siretart: done
<siretart> lfittl: thanks for your contribution, I just advocated it
<slomo> siretart: i hate marillat's mplayer package :P do you want to merge it? otherwise i'll probably create my own later...
<highvoltage> siretart: what's the usage for lpbugs.py- is it 'lpbugs.py -n file.dsc' ?
<lfittl> siretart: thanks for your advocation :)
<highvoltage> or which file should i use after -n ?
<siretart> slomo: if you have time and think you maintain it better than mariallt, then I'm all for it!
<slomo> siretart: it's impossible to maintain it worse than marillat :P
<siretart> highvoltage: usage: usage lpbugs.py [options]  sourcepackage
<lfittl> siretart: Could you please build the package again, otherwise other reviewers will see the old lintian output
<siretart> slomo: you have some point there ;)
<siretart> lfittl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=898
<lfittl> siretart: oh, thanks :D
<siretart> slomo: if you are doing it, I'd suggest we create a bzr archive for the debian/ dir, okay?
<slomo> siretart: yes, i'm currently talking to Nafallo about it... he wanted to do it too :)
<slomo> siretart: at least some months ago
<siretart> great
<Nafallo> if someone else want it I can continue with my merges ;-)
<pef> siretart: hello, should I ask to you about permissions (archive, advocate) on REVU ?
<siretart> pef: aah, sure. I think I did not congratulate for your motu approval yet, did I
<siretart> pef: well, congrats, dude! you've done good work!
<slomo> ok, let's do it together... Nafallo, siretart ;) maybe i'll make a start later... otherwise tomorrow
<siretart> slomo: great :)
<janimo> siretart, can I ask for publishing space on tiber?
<highvoltage> siretart: sorry for being so stupid, which would be the source package the .tar.gz file?
<pef> siretart: thank you :) I just wait my gpg key to be added to keyring to be able to upload to archive
<siretart> janimo: you are motu, are you?
<janimo> if yes, I ask :)
<janimo> yes
<siretart> of course you are
<siretart> sorry,
<siretart> janimo: I can create you an user account, so that you can ssh on tiber, is that okay?
<janimo> np, from the dapper-changes one couldn't say I am one ;(
<janimo> that's great :)
<slomo> brb
<Nafallo> slomo: we use bzr I guess? :-)
<janimo> need my public ssh key?
<slomo> Nafallo: yes, sure... but only for the debian directory
<siretart> janimo: please send me a signed and encrypted mail with your preferred password
<janimo> ok what's your address?
<siretart> siretart@ubuntu.com
<janimo> thanks I will
<Nafallo> slomo: yepp :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: slomo lets move that discussion to #motu-media
<highvoltage> siretart: so what would be that source package? :)
<siretart> highvoltage: which package are you talking about?
<pef> siretart: can you please give me enough permissions on REVU to be able to archive some uploads ? (I found a few useless, like already uploaded or synced)
<highvoltage> 18:43 < siretart> highvoltage: usage: usage lpbugs.py [options]  sourcepackage
<highvoltage> siretart: that one ^^^
<siretart> pef: yes, just a sec. what was your login in revu again?
<pef> siretart: loic@dev.erodia.net, but first, a question about this
<pef> siretart: who is able to have an @ubuntu.com mail ?
<siretart> pef: every ubuntu member
<hunger> Hmmm... I keep running into dh_gencontrol complaining about ${misc:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends} and ${kpatch:Depends}.
<siretart> pef: you should have admin access level now on tiber
<hunger> Any ideas what I am doing wrong there?
<pef> siretart: thank you :) and where can I ask for this mail ? I think it's cleaner to have an ubuntu.com address in changelogs than one like mine (longer)
<siretart> pef: what is your launchpad id?
<pef> siretart: loic
<siretart> pef: I think loic@ubuntu.com should already work for you. try sending an email there
<highvoltage> siretart: sorry, just figured out what the script meant, i didn't have any source uri's in my sources.list file, fixing now...
<siretart> highvoltage: oh. intersting. I didn't think about that case :)
<highvoltage> siretart: sometimes i like having problems like this, it means that i'll be able to better help a motu-wannabe some day :)
<siretart> highvoltage: rock! :)
<pef> siretart: yeah this works :)
<siretart> pef: w00t :)
<siretart> *@ubuntu.com is btw autowhitelisted for dapper-changes
<pef> siretart: it's also why I want it :)
<siretart> :)
<highvoltage> siretart: for pygame, should i expect "lpbugs.py -n pygame_1.7.1release.orig.tar.gz" to work?
<slomo> siretart: #ubuntu-media is empty :P
<Nafallo> no
<Nafallo> lpbugs.py -n pygame
<highvoltage> Nafallo: thanks
<siretart> highvoltage: no
<siretart> highvoltage: try lpbugs.py -n pygame
<highvoltage> it worked! i think it worked!
* highvoltage checks launchpad
<siretart> slomo: not anymore
<slomo> oh no :( axiom needs ~2 hours to compile and fails at the end...
<highvoltage> where on launchpad can i check for my bug? i checked on the bugs i reported page, but it's not there.
<highvoltage> or will it be there when launchpad runs its cron job again?
<Nafallo> yes
<highvoltage> ok.
<highvoltage> is it likely that i did what i did properly on that package, or should i wait and see what happens to that bug report?
<highvoltage> should I attempt to do it on some more packages in the meantime?
* hunger_ just tried to register for revu.
<siretart> hunger_: I just added you to the keyring!
<hunger_> siretart: Thanks!
<hunger_> siretart: just rebuilding stuff in a chroot to catch those nasty missing build deps:-)
<siretart> hunger_: good idea :)
<siretart> janimo: did you send me the email?
<janimo> siretart, not yet :(
<siretart> ah, then there is nothing wrong
<siretart> on my side ;)
<janimo> I only have a gmail account right now so I'll have to do the encoding by hand
<siretart> ah, I see
<janimo> you'll decrypt with my gpg key?
<siretart> with my gpg key, yes
<siretart> you'll get jani@tiber.tauware.de for free ;)
<janimo> :)
<janimo> right, so I have to encrypt with your key
<janimo> the mail, that is
<schweeb> janimo: you can use an email client w/ gmail's SMTP servers
<schweeb> and thunderbird has the enigmail plugin
<janimo> yeah, I know I actually used tb for a while with it
<janimo> I may do this again now
<janimo> but since I'll have do sign with siretart's key?
<schweeb> my personal server's still down, so that's what I do...forward everything through gmail's SMTP
<janimo> I thought mails you sign with your key
<schweeb> no, you sign with your key
<janimo> I haven;t used gpg except for uploads so I do not know a whole lot about it
<schweeb> are you signing or encrypting?
<siretart> schweeb: both
<janimo> hmm encrypting
<janimo> ok
<siretart> janimo: you are signing with your key and encrypting against MY pubic key
<schweeb> ^^^^^^^
<\sh> hmmm..can apt-cache search throughout the source packages?
<siretart> \sh: not very well
<janimo> what's gpg's option for searching keys?
<siretart> \sh: you are better off with grep-dctrl
<siretart> janimo: gpg --search-keys
<janimo> doh :)
<\sh> hmmm
<janimo> siretart you seem to have 3 keys right?
<janimo> one back from 2000, wow
<siretart> janimo: yeah, please use my 'tauware' key
<\sh> siretart: and how I can search only in the source packages?
<\sh> ah no
<\sh> found it
<siretart> grep-dctrl -P gobby /var/lib/apt/lists/*Sources
<siretart> for example
<thierry_> anjuta .desktop file have a lot of deprecated things... Type=MimeType , DefaultApp and  Patterns by what do I change them?
<thierry_> and what is to package for the command dpkg-buildpackage?
<janimo> devscripts I think
<janimo> nope, dpkg-dev
<janimo> thierry ^
<highvoltage> siretart: i don't get any notification from launchpad when i do the lpbugs.py script. anything wrong with launchpad?
<tseng> they are blocking the emails
<tseng> last i heard.
<highvoltage> tseng: thanks. do you know when the script runs next?
<tseng> no.
<Kyral> I wish FlowDesigner would compile faster....
<highvoltage> what do i do if something just fails to comile, such as: http://rafb.net/paste/results/NxVJLm32.html
<highvoltage> do i also need to log a bug?
<highvoltage> and do i use the script to do that as well?
<Kyral> thats...funky
<Kyral> did you try it in a PBuilder?
<highvoltage> no, i didn't.
<highvoltage> how does that work?
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/PBuilderHowto
<Kyral> I think thats the addy
<Kyral> also reminds me that I've been meaning to tack on a section about multiple PBuilders
<seth_k|lappy> I have a set of wrapper scripts... breezybuild, hoarybuild, dapperbuild
<seth_k|lappy> that call the appropriate basetgz
<Kyral> I just use Bash Aliases
<seth_k|lappy> ah, that's not a bad idea
<Kyral> but I had to experiment to learn how to make multiple PBuilders
<siretart> Kyral: look in /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples
<Kyral> I know
<siretart> Kyral: there you find a script pbuilder-distribution.sh, which does exactly this
<siretart> I'm using that here at tiber
<Kyral> eh, I like my way
<highvoltage> thanks for all your help, slomo / siretart / Kyral and \sh. i'm calling it a night. hopefully launchpad will show me some bugs tomorrow.
<highvoltage> goodnight!
<Kyral> Okay what should I do if a package has Makefiles for Linux, OSX, and Windows
<Kyral> Should I delete the OSX and Windows ones?
<siretart> Kyral: In general, try to distribute the upstream tarball as .orig.gz
<siretart> Kyral: there are some cases where we have to repackage the orig.tar.gz, but we generally only do this if we have no other choice
<Kyral> well, I had to modify the Makefile for linux so it wouldn't install into /usr/local
<siretart> ah, it didn't behave and would not obey $DESTDIR? bad bad makefile ;)
<Kyral> so....what should I do?
<Kyral> it didn't have DESTDIR period
<siretart> I see
<Kyral> no Autoconf
<Kyral> pure Makefile
<siretart> if upstream is unresponsive/unwilling to provide useful makefiles, I tend to not use the install target but install the file myself in debian/rules
<siretart> or rather patch the makefiles
<siretart> there is no problem in patching/modifying Makefiles as long as the edits go to the .diff.gz
<Kyral> ...there isn't an install target
<siretart> sad
<Kyral> call dh_install in rules?
<Kyral> or patch the makefile to add an install target?
<siretart> it is rather a matter of taste
<siretart> and depends on the package, what is cheaper in maintenance
<Kyral> it LOOKS like its churning out a single binary
<siretart> in general, espc. when there a few files to be installed, I tend to prefer dh_install, because there you can specify what is going to be installed in debian/<package>.install
<Kyral> wait...that does this GCC line do?
<Kyral> C_FLAGS=-Wall -W -Wpointer-arith -O2 -pedantic -std=c99 -DUNIX -DI18N -DPREFIX=\\"$(PREFIX)\"
<Kyral> whats -DPREFIX=\\"$(PREFIX)\" mean?
<LaserJock> does anybody know how to update with bzr?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: I got the lpbugs working
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I see that, and my comp at school is back up
<bmonty_laptop> do you use TLS and/or authentication with your server?
<bmonty_laptop> mail server
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I don't have TLS but I'm not sure about authentication, let me check Thunderbird real quick
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: I uploaded bzflag last night (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/bzflag/2.0.4.20051017ubuntu1/)
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: I saw, thanks for the help
<bmonty_laptop> guess I need to tell siretart to take it off REVU
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: how's the little one?
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: he is crying right now
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: can you please take a look at #1213 and upload if it looks ok?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: how do you even find time to do any of this Ubuntu work?
<bmonty_laptop> while he sleeps :)
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: in sec, merging xastir atm
<bmonty_laptop> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-18
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: I made some changes to the lpbugs script to make it work for me, you want to try what I have and see if it works correctly for you?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: sure
<bmonty_laptop> anyone know whats up with the gpg error on us.archive.ubuntu.com??
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: where should I email it to?
<LaserJock> mantha at chem.unr.edu
<bmonty_laptop> on its way
<crimsun> crap, got a build-dep on libmagick9-dev ;(
<crimsun> garrr
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: all I'm getting now is ": No such file or directory"
<bmonty_laptop> thats odd, did you make the file executable?
<LaserJock> yep
<siretart> bmonty_laptop: do you have your changes to lpbugs in an bzr archive so I can merge from that?
<bmonty_laptop> siretart: no, but I emailed a patch to \sh
<siretart> okay
<bmonty_laptop> what me to send it to you?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: what patches?
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I made a patch that makes SMTP work for me
<bmonty_laptop> I emailed it to you about 20 mins ago
<\sh> I had a look on it now
<\sh> if u use AuthRequired=N
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I don't use Auth or TLS with me server
<bmonty_laptop> ...my server
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: for this, AUthRequired=N is used
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: it didn't work for me with AuthRequired=N...I think it was because the if used Auth regardless of the config file setting
<bmonty_laptop> but like I said, I'm a python noob so I might have messed something else up
<LaserJock> well, neither seem to work for me :(
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: i'll check
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: ah there
<\sh> one tab too many :)
<\sh> i'm pushing the changes now in my repos on tiber
<\sh> if someone can test it please?
<LaserJock> \sh: I will, how do you update with bzr?
<\sh> bzr merge http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<bmonty_laptop> gotta go grab some dinner...bbl
<\sh> btw...
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: wesnoth uploaded.
<LaserJock> \sh: well, it sent the message
<LaserJock> \sh: and it show up on revu.tauware.de, sweet
<\sh> hum?
<LaserJock> the bug got sent, and it shows up on http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=accepted
<\sh> scigraph?
<LaserJock> yeah
<\sh> ah
<siretart> really impressive what you can do with python :)
<hunger> How do I change the version number of the debs I created?
<crimsun> dch -vfoo
* hunger thinks -1 is wrong... maybe 0ubuntu1?
<crimsun> or edit debian/changelog directly
<crimsun> what's the base Debian version?
<crimsun> revision, sorry
<hunger> crimsun: There is none.
<crimsun> so it's just x.y.z ?
<crimsun> (a native package)
<hunger> crimsun: it is not in debian and it is no native package.
<crimsun> then you must append -0ubuntuX
<hunger> So how do I use dput? Configuration is explained nicely in the Wiki, but how do I actually upload something?
<crimsun> dput packages_version_source.changes
<crimsun> do you have universe upload rights yet?
<hunger> crimsun: I want to put the stuff on revu.
<crimsun> oh, that's in there already
<hunger> crimsun: Got a mail that I may do that.
<crimsun> dput revu packages_version_source.changes
* hunger waits for the code to build with the adapted version number.
<\sh> siretart: u didn't see my lpreportbugs.py yet
<\sh> siretart: it has a UI
* hunger is uploading xen debs to revu.
<hunger> Please provide feedback about the packaging. The debs themselves leave much to be desired, but I'd love some feedback on the packaging part before starting to hack on the functionality itself.
<siretart> hunger: are you the guy who did the google soc project on xen?
<hunger> siretart: Nope.
<hunger> siretart: His last debs are from august:-(
<siretart> this means way too old?
<hunger> siretart: Xen changes on a daily basis at the moment.
<siretart> hunger: you uploaded a lot of binary .debs. these are useless for us :(
<siretart> hunger: please use dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa for uploading to revu
<hunger> siretart: Sorry. I used crimsun's dput instruction.
<siretart> hunger: the dput is not the problem, the way you create the source package is
<siretart> hunger: you need to get a _source.changes file, not an _i386.changes
<siretart> hunger: btw, the package linux-xen-patch...deb seems to be empty
<siretart> hunger: I don't think we can review any linux patches right now, because we decided that we don't want any kernel patches in universe
<hunger> siretart: You are right... Where did the patch go?
<siretart> hunger: so lets discuss that first, before uploading a linux xen patch to revu
<siretart> hunger: lets just assume the user already has a xen patched kernel for now. We'll discuss this issue later
<hunger> siretart: Sorry if I was a bit overenthusiastic:-)
<siretart> no problem. you did a great job man!
<hunger> siretart: I copied a lot from Ed:-)
<siretart> I just don't want YOU to get disappointed
<siretart> so please create source packages and upload them
<hunger> siretart: Shall I remove the kernel patch before doing so?
<siretart> hunger: the linux-patch is created from the same source?!
<hunger> siretart: Yes.
<siretart> thats weird
<hunger> siretart: Xen is somewhat of a mess...
<siretart> do you have a rationale for this?
<siretart> hm
<siretart> lets see
<siretart> hunger: how big (in kb) is the patch to the linux kernel?
<hunger> siretart: Xen's source tar.gz contains "sparse trees" of various kernels. It uses those to build the patch (or prepatched kernel tree).
<siretart> omfg
<siretart> how big is the upstream tar.gz?
<crimsun> that's ... nasty.
<crimsun> I can see why RH wants Xen merged, heh.
<hunger> siretart: The kernel patch is about 2.5MiB.
<siretart> yeah
<hunger> siretart: The tar.gz is ~4.8MiB
<siretart> hunger: I fear you'll have to split the upstream sources into pieces for maintainability
<siretart> hm
<hunger> siretart: Outch!
<siretart> hunger: I'd suggest you create a new tarball based on what you used by now without that kernel patch
<siretart> hunger: this saves you 2.5mb, right?
<hunger> siretart: The buildsystem covers the whole tree (and is a mess). It will take ages to disentangle.
<siretart> hm. i see
<siretart> okay. forget about the split
<hunger> I could try to remove the netbsd/freebsd kernel trees....
<siretart> hunger: I'm interested in what you have now. Please create a source package, which just does not create a 'kernel patch package'
<hunger> Those are about 1.6MiB (unpacked).
<siretart> then upload that to revu, I'll take a closer look to what needs to be done
<hunger> siretart: OK, rolling new debs.
<siretart> hunger: no, no .debs please ;)
<siretart> sources!
<hunger> siretart: OK, no debs... rolling whatever it is:-)
<hunger> siretart: Let me look where the patch went to first though.
<hunger_> siretart: sorry, lost my connection.
<siretart> boah, this late
<siretart> I need to go to bed
<\sh> siretart: u should sleep
<siretart> hunger_: I'll take a look at your packages tomorrow
<siretart> \sh: you too ;)
<\sh> siretart: what is your GF telling u..it's weekend and u should have fun with her..not with us :)
<\sh> siretart: i'm sitting at ogra and drinking rum and coke
<crimsun> yeah, leave the MOTU fun to those of us with no lives? ;-)
<siretart> \sh: I was out with her yesterday evening, and I'm invited for lunch at her parents tomorrow, don't worry ;)
* hunger_ just had his wife stop by to ask whether he will come to bed soon.
<\sh> crimsun: from monday on i will hit the universe again :)
<crimsun> :)
<siretart> \sh: greetings to ogra!
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<ogra> siretart, thanks :)
<ogra> night
<\sh> good night siretart :) sleep well friend
<siretart> :)
<crimsun> night german MOTU team ;-)
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<tritium> sorry, I'm off to dinner...talk to you later on?
<LaserJock> sure
<tritium> thanks
<Lathiat> slomo, tseng: gnomevfs has avahi support in cvs
<crimsun> rockin'
<LaserJock> so, in general, is it good to start with the debian source when merging, or the MoM merged source ?
<crimsun> depends what the REPORT says
<crimsun> I generally consult the Debian debdiff first, then look at the merged debdiff
<crimsun> if there aren't any dropped bits, I tend to look at the merged debdiff first then the Debian debdiff
<crimsun> I end up checking the Ubuntu debdiff last generally just for Build-Depends if there are dropped bits
<crimsun> it really depends what the REPORT says. It's a case by case basis.
<crimsun> you have to be careful with REPORT, though. Make sure the versions against which MoM is generating deltas are valid
<crimsun> an example would be xastir, whose deltas were generated using 1.4.0-2 instead of 1.6.0!
<crimsun> so yeah, just read carefully :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, never thought of that, good to know
<LaserJock> should I be concerned about config.sub or config.guess stuff in the debdiffs?
<Lathiat> it depends
<Lathiat> i think theres a way to avoid regenning them but sometimes there isnt
<Lathiat> LaserJock: is thsi without modifying anything at all?
<Lathiat> for configure.{in,ac}
<Lathiat> or with mods?
<LaserJock> Lathiat: well, if I look at any of the debdiffs (I am looking at scigraphica right now) they all have config.guess or config.sub changes that make up most of the diff
<Lathiat> yeh you ge tthat
<LaserJock> that just comes from building the package, right?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> like the make clean etc that runs
<Lathiat> its annoying but yeh
<LaserJock> when making debdiffs for MOTU to upload is it better to debdiff to the MoM package or the Debian package?
<slomo_> Lathiat: perfect :) gnome 2.14 will rock
* freeflying is away: Away at the moment
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: ping
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: did you get the lpbugs script working?
<LaserJock> yes I did
<bmonty_laptop> makes life a little easier, right? :)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: for merges do you debdiff to Debian source or the MoM source?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: yes it does ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: primarily I check why we had an ubuntu version in the first place and then see if the new debian version fixes those problems
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: but when you are making a debdiff for MOTU to upload, what do you debdiff too?
<bmonty_laptop> I would debdiff from the current package to the new
<bmonty_laptop> if it is just a sync I don't make a debdiff
<LaserJock> well, but I'm wondering if it is better to debdiff from the source package available from MoM or from the Debian source
<bmonty_laptop> I use the debian source
<LaserJock> ok, that makes sense. I think I have been diffing to the MoM source mostly.
<bmonty_laptop> I get the dapper source package, the debian unstable source package and then typically start by trying to build the debian source in a dapper pbuilder
<bmonty_laptop> the source in MoM should be the source from debian
<LaserJock> no, it is the merged source I think
<bmonty_laptop> one of the files is, there is also the debian source
<LaserJock> the .orig.tgz, .dsc, and diff.gz are from the MoM merged version
<LaserJock> is it important to include the previous Ubuntu changlog entries? The Debian source obviously doesn't have it so if we merge should be reinsert the Ubuntu changelog entries?
<bmonty_laptop> yeah, you're right....I don't really use those files I guess
<bmonty_laptop> my understanding is a sync will overwrite the ubuntu changelog
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: a sync yes, but what about a merge?
<bmonty_laptop> I'm not sure, I guess I would try to keep them
<LaserJock> that is the only thing I like about the MoM merged source
<bmonty_laptop> so far all of the packages I have looked at have been syncs...at the most I am adding something like a desktop file and making a debdiff from the debian unstable source
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: lucky, I think I have had only 1 sync
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: maybe I am doing more than I need to
<bmonty_laptop> or being thourough so the merges are good :)
<bmonty_laptop> damn, the wesnoth upload that crimsun did for me got rejected
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: so i've got 1 sync in 8 total so far
<LaserJock> hi minghua
<minghua> hello LaserJock
<bradb> hey all
<bradb> Anyone know the story behind the avifile dup bug madness?
<bmonty_laptop> bradb: nope, but if you find out, I'd like to know
<LaserJock> was siretart testing something for the bug reporting scripts?
<bmonty_laptop> probably
<LaserJock> so what do I do if the MoM merge is good? should I just update the bug report with that info?
<bmonty_laptop> sure
<bmonty_laptop> good night LaserJock
<crimsun> d'oh, I just missed bmonty
<LaserJock> hi bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hey LaserJock...I'm back, the kid doesn't want to sleep right now :(
<LaserJock> I think crimsun wanted to say something to you
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: pong
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: the wesnoth package was rejected
<bmonty_laptop> lots of md5sum errors
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> hmm, that's odd
<bmonty_laptop> first time I've seen it
<crimsun> yeah, I've never seen that either, and the md5sums check out here
<bmonty_laptop> so, I wanted to see if I should make a new debdiff and put it up on my website for you to DL, or if you wanted to try again with what is on malone
<crimsun> I'm using the one I generated here
<crimsun> which I've just placed on http://www.sh.nu~/crimsun/
<crimsun> {diff.gz,dsc,changes}
<crimsun> 61dc63add482b1d43c8b6e79f3000f45  wesnoth_1.0.1-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<crimsun> 502c172143345c80f04edf644e4009c7  wesnoth_1.0.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<crimsun> f4801a805c143ca827c155f191545849  wesnoth_1.0.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<bmonty_laptop> I get the same
<crimsun> ok, I'll bump the version and reupload
<Burglaptop> crimsun, are you getting ahead of the debian packager for debian?
<crimsun> Burglaptop: ...no
<crimsun> Burglaptop: this is from MoM
<Burglaptop> crimsun, ok, just checking. As the wesnoth debian packager is the current head of the wesnoth release process..
<crimsun> Burglaptop: I generally don't break UVF at all unless there's a really good reason
<bmonty_laptop> Burglaptop: this is their package with a small modification
<Burglaptop> ok, just checking
<LaserJock> I have a debian package that has build-dep "xlibmesa-gl-dev | libglu1-xorg-dev" and MoM has "libgl1-mesa-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev"
<bmonty_laptop> has anyone tried to get the bzr packages from jbailey's archive? (from \sh's email on REVU2)
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: that is what I used
<bmonty_laptop> where did you get jbailey's key?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: I didn't
<bmonty_laptop> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition
<LaserJock> so do I need "libgl1-mesa-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev" or "libgl1-mesa-dev|libglu1-mesa-dev" ?
<bmonty_laptop> you just forced apt to ignore sigs?
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: or synaptic ;-)
<crimsun> you need "libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev"
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah thanks
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: Subject: wesnoth_1.0.1-1ubuntu2_source.changes ACCEPTED
<lifeless> siretart: ?
<crimsun> must have been a glitch in the matrix
<bmonty_laptop> crimsun: ok, thanks for your help
<crimsun> np
<moquist> I'm new to packaging, and I've used dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot on the game 'apricots'.  dpkg-buildpackage seems to build [almost?]  everything, and then it errs out.  http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/d4452 shows the error I'm getting; I don't understand why fakeroot isn't taking care of the "Permission denied" problem.
<crimsun> moquist: the error's pretty simple; you used an absolute path
<crimsun> you can't create /usr/share/apricots, but you _can_ create $(pwd)/debian/apricots/usr/share/apricots
<moquist> crimsun: thx for helping.  This isn't my project, so I haven't done anything to speak of other than downloading the tarball and running dh_make, etc.  Is it a problem that the makefile specifies "prefix = /usr"?
<moquist> crimsun: right.  So is this something that I need to change on the command line or in the Makefile?
<Amaranth> Yes.
<crimsun> the original Makefile should be modified to accept $DESTDIR
<moquist> ok.
<Amaranth> smack upstream around for a bit
<moquist> I can google for that, unless you have a good example to point me to.  (I guess I could apt-get source anything else, right?  ;)
<crimsun> should be fairly straightforward; check the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
<moquist> ok, so I just prepend any absolute paths in the Makefile with $(DESTDIR).  Seems quite straightforward.
<crimsun> yep, and modify debian/rules to pass it to your $(MAKE) invocations
<crimsun> (some people swear by cdbs, which handles this for you)
<lifeless> and others swear at cdbs :)
<crimsun> hehe, indeed
<Amaranth> cdbs is great when it works
<Amaranth> when it doesn't you get to debug wtf cdbs thinks it's doing :)
<bmonty_laptop> ok, now for real.....good night all!
<moquist> crimsun: debian/rules already has "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/apricots" in the install target; what could I need to change?
<crimsun> moquist: the actual Makefile
<moquist> Also, my Makefile change goes away because apricots_0.2.6.orig.tar.gz is unpacked every time I run dpkg-buildpackage.
<moquist> crimsun: Oh... you said "modify debian/rules to pass it to your $(MAKE) invocations".  I guess I don't understand that...
<crimsun> moquist: apparently the debian/rules already has that
<crimsun> moquist: does the app using ./configure?
<crimsun> s/using/use/
<moquist> I really appreciate your help, BTW.  It's very nice to pop into a channel and get a response from a helpful person.  :)
<moquist> Yes, it uses ./configure.
<crimsun> then you'll need to modify the appropriate Makefile.in
* moquist has never done anything substantial with automake...but he still should've figured that out
<moquist> crimsun: do I want to change "prefix = @prefix@" to "prefix = $(DESTDIR)/@prefix@" in Makefile.in?  That doesn't seem quite right...
<crimsun> moquist: hmm, no, that should be enough
<crimsun> out of curiosity, paste debian/rules onto paste.ubuntulinux.nl
<moquist> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/d4453
<moquist> "that should be enough"... what should be enough?
<crimsun> what Makefile.in currently has.
* moquist nods
<crimsun> please paste apricots/Makefile.{am,in} onto paste
<crimsun> if there's a Makefile.am, that will suffice
<moquist> oh, I did .in first: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/4455
<moquist> apricots/Makefile.am: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/4456
<crimsun> eww.
<Amaranth> smack upstream around a bit
<moquist> uh-oh.  schmack-schmack.
<crimsun> your Makefile.am needs to use "$(mkinstalldirs) $(DESTDIR)$(pkgdatadir)"
<crimsun> then you need to autoreconf
<moquist> so I change apricots/Makefile.am (replacing all "$(mkinstalldirs) $(pkgdatadir)/" with $(DESTDIR) inserted, and then "autoreconf" somehow...however I do that.  (in debian/rules?)
<crimsun> moquist: yep. Just make sure you add the necessary build-depends to debian/control
<moquist> ok, I think.
<crimsun> autoreconf before calling ./configure
<moquist> do the "-rm -f $(pkgdatadir)..." lines in Makefile.am need to change?
<crimsun> yep
<moquist> k
<crimsun> else it'll try to remove /usr/share/apricots/
<moquist> so debain/rules has a ./configure line, and I should add a line above that that says 'autoreconf"?
<crimsun> and you've already seen what attempting to create it incurs
<moquist> heh -- yes.
<crimsun> yep.
<crimsun> you probably need a couple parameters like -f -i
<moquist> which ones?  There's nothing in my path or in this source tree named 'autoreconf'.
<moquist> ...so I'm not sure how to know which parameters I'll need.
<crimsun> you need autoconf and automake1.$foo installed
<crimsun> $foo being one of {6,7,8,9}
<moquist> not 4?  hmm.
<moquist> 1.4-p6-9 is what I got.
<crimsun> generally you want to pick the lowest
* moquist thought he had automake installed on this system.  silly him.
<crimsun> 4 may be too old, which is why there should be a b-d on autotools-dev
<moquist> sorry I'm dumb.  b-d?
<crimsun> debian/control:Build-Depends
<moquist> k
<crimsun> you don't need an explicit b-d on autotools-dev, since automake1.$foo pulls it in
<moquist> there is.  dh_make put that in for me.
<moquist> heh...so I should take out the b-d on autotools-dev and put it one for automake?
<crimsun> ", autoconf, automake1.6"
<moquist> I'm inching my way along, here.  Now I get this when I run dpkg-buildpackage: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/4458
<crimsun> you need libtool as a b-d, too
<moquist> hmm.  I'm getting lazy.  I only searched for "libtoolize".
<moquist> crimsun: success!
* moquist tests
<crimsun> tritium: if you need me to walk you through a MoM, just let me know
<highvoltage> so.
<highvoltage> Friday night I took the plunge and decided to get involved with motu again.
<highvoltage> ogra suggested i start with merges.
<highvoltage> so what i've been doing is downloading files from http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<highvoltage> doing the "dpkg-source -x *.dsc, cd newdir, dch, debuild -kCD622E56, lpbygs.py -n packagename" thing.
<highvoltage> is that basically what it involves? or are there more steps I need to do?
<crimsun> essentially
<crimsun> granted I'm doing everything still by hand
<crimsun> (i.e., pointing Web browser to http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ , resuming from the bottom, reading REPORT, etc.)
<crimsun> most things should be fairly straightforward
<crimsun> if you have questions, I'll be around for a bit doing merges before I nod off
<Treenaks> morning all
<Treenaks> Try #2 at waking up..
<crimsun> 'morning, Treenaks
<highvoltage> thanks crimsun.
* Treenaks shakes his fist at the weird Montralian timezone!
<highvoltage> crimsun: how do i know that i've done it succesfully, do i have to wait for the launchpad cron job and then look at my bugs section?
<crimsun> highvoltage: well, the difficult part is inspecting what does (not) need to be merged
<crimsun> if you inspect the REPORT and the ubuntu debdiff, you should be able to get an idea whether you need to inspect the debian debdiff before inspecting the merged debdiff
<highvoltage> ok, i haven't actually done that so far.
<highvoltage> so if i get Previous Ubuntu Version: 0.8.6f-2ubuntu1
<highvoltage> Current Debian Version:  0.8.6g-2
<highvoltage> then a merge is needed?
<crimsun> possibly
<crimsun> you have to inspect REPORT and the ubuntu debdiff, then possibly the debian debdiff, before inspecting the merged debdiff
<highvoltage> where can I find the debian debdiff?
<crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/sourcepackage_name/
<minghua> hi, is it possible to request a re-MoM?
<crimsun> err...
<crimsun> like a give-back, or...?
<minghua> I'm working on grace6, and the MoM page doesn't have the correct debian base version
<crimsun> does the 'b' version of the page have the incorrect one, too?
<minghua> I got the correct one from snapshot.debian.net, and the ubuntu patch turn out to be quite simple
<crimsun> I've had a couple mis-MoMs
<minghua> Hmm, let me check
<crimsun> yeah, in that case just use the diff from a main Debian mirror as the base
<minghua> crimsun: the "b" log has the correct base version: * Selected morgue as base
<minghua> crimsun: but scott's MoM page is still wrong
<crimsun> minghua: ah, then it's up to us to generate the correct debdiff
<minghua> Okay, I see.  Then I should use my own name in the resync changelog, I suppose?
<crimsun> you should always use your own name in the changelog
<minghua> crimsun: but what if the package in scott's MoM page is just right?
<crimsun> minghua: you're still the one who inspected it
<crimsun> plus Scott gets bombed with ACCEPTs if we leave his e-mail, which leaves him nonplussed ;-)
<minghua> that sounds fair :-)
<crimsun> ugh
<crimsun> wfmath has binaries that have undergone the cxx transition in both ubuntu and debian, resulting in different binary names ;(
<highvoltage> that's one weird emoticon
<crimsun> it's a sad baby jesus
<siretart> morning
<lfittl> morning
<crimsun> morning. (Well actually I'm off to bed.)
<highvoltage> goodnight crimsun
<pef> hello
<Gloubiboulga> hello pef
<pef> Gloubiboulga: already awake ;)
<Gloubiboulga> yep :)
<Gloubiboulga> I've sent my work on revu yesterday
<Gloubiboulga> but I can't see it on the site main page, is this normal ?
<pef> Gloubiboulga: it should appears on revu within 5 minutes (cron job)
<Gloubiboulga> This is 5 big minutes then :/
<herve> hello
<pef> hello herve
<hunger_> Good morning.
<hunger> How do I set conffiles in a multi binary source deb?
<pef> someone using lvm snapshot feature with chroots ?
<Nafallo> my chroots are pbuilders :-)
<hunger> pef: Yep, doing so since yesterday.
<hunger> pef: So far it works pretty well.
<pef> hunger: no drawbacks ?
<hunger> Nafallo: I was too stupid to set up pbuilders, so I had to fall back to lvm.
<hunger> pef: Never used pbuilder... but lvm snapshot works pretty well for me.
<Nafallo> hunger: ehm... oki...
<Nafallo> PbuilderHowto :-)
<hunger> pef: I will probably write a couple of scripts to automate the common tasks.
<hunger> Nafallo: Yeap, read that, debootstrap fails when run by pbuilder.
<Nafallo> --distribution breezy then :-)
<hunger> Nafallo: Same behaviour.
<hunger> Nafallo: running debootstrap to setup the lvm volumes to snapshot works for both breezy and dapper by the way.
<Nafallo> and set DEBOOTSTRAP="debootstrap" in your pbuilderrc :-)
<hunger> Nafallo: It was running debootstrap. Dunno which options it used.
<hunger> Nafallo: Anyway: the snapshots work great and there is no messing around with tar files.
<Nafallo> k
* hunger wonders why gpg keeps warning him about his own key not being trusted.
<hunger> How can I log into revu's website?
<tseng> the wiki tells you
<tseng> which is conveniently linked from the top of REVU
<Treenaks> tseng: "An Ode to the Lost Art of Reading"
<herve> rea... what? :-)
<Treenaks> herve: ;)
<\sh> can someone try this url? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs-advanced?field.searchtext=&search=Search&orderby=-priority%2C-severity&field.assignee=motumergers&field.unassigned.used=&field.include_dupes.used=&field.statusexplanation=&advanced=1&field.status%3Alist=PendingUpload&field.status-empty-marker=1&field.severity-empty-marker=1&field.attachmenttype-empty-marker=1
<Gloubiboulga> \sh: Timeout error
<\sh> wonderful...filing a bug :)
<sivang> \sh: what is this link supposed to give?
<thierry_> is it normal that some package are not in the upstream list of choices of malone (like gworldclock)
<thierry_> ?
<\sh> then they're not in the database
<zul> does anyone have a simple way of getting a list of all the packages in universe?
<Seveas> source or binary packages?
<zul> source
<Seveas> curl http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.gz | zcat | grep Package: | cut -f 2 -d ' '
<zul> thanks
<zul> i think there might be a need for motukernel
<\sh> there is definitly _no need for any motukernel_
<zul> \sh: what about the kernel module sources in universe
<\sh> zul: kernel module sources are ok..but no binary kernel in universe...we discussed this already and we declined this request
<zul> \sh: thats what i meant
<Seveas> hmm, I uploaded a package to revu, but it does not show up
<Treenaks> Seveas: wait 5 minutes
<Treenaks> (cron)
<Treenaks> or so I'm told
<Seveas> 15 minutes ago :)
<Treenaks> Seveas: kick siretart
<Seveas> neh, kick myself
<Seveas> I switched to a different key for packages
<Seveas> I'll ping siretart
<Treenaks> you have multiple keys?
<Seveas> yeah, for packaging I have a signing onley key
<Treenaks> ah
<Treenaks> a singing key :)
<Kyral> G'Morning
<bmonty_laptop> hi Kyral
* Kyral immeadiatly cranks Bon Jovi - It's My Life
<Kyral> Hows that for something to wake up to? :D
<tseng> uh
<Kyral> joke tseng
<sivang> Kyral: I'd rather you played something of the Bare Naked Ladies :)
<tseng> there is nothing funny about it
<tseng> comeon
<Kyral> well, pun, randomness, take your pick
<bmonty_laptop> metallica is great for waking up
<Kyral> sivang, I don't have any
<sivang> Kyral: "Brian Wilson" would suffice for a melancolic awakening :)
<tseng> Converge is great for waking up
<Kyral> I need to rip my Dad's ZZ Top CDs
<sivang> tseng: US band?
<tseng> yes
<sivang> Kyral: oh, ZZ TOp are cool
<Kyral> "'cause every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man"
<janimo> anybody form the Motu IM team around
<Kyral> I really need to hit the P2P networks...
<hunger> Hmmm... how do I update the sources from upstream?
<slomo_> uupdate
<hunger> slomo_ : Doesen't that need a watch file?
<slomo_> no... uscan needs a watchfile... uupdate only needs a tarball
<slomo_> but be carefull when the tarball is tar.bz2... sometimes dpkg-source repacks it for you with changes
<hunger> slomo_: Ah, ok. Thanks!
<hunger> slomo_: Thanks for the warning!
<slomo_> where changes in this case means renamed toplevel directory... bla-x.y.z becomes bla-x.y.z.orig
<Kyral> How do I find the path to ctl0?
<slomo_> ?!
<Kyral> Need it for Cedega config
<Kyral> whatever device ALSA is using ;P
<Kyral> It has a field for "CTL Device" and "PCM Device"
<slomo_> /dev/snd/controlC0
<slomo_> maybe?
<Kyral> yah
<thierry_> hi, I'm trying to do a script that would get the source of an ubuntu package and cd insinde this source once downloaded... I just don't know how to get the package_version in the output of apt-get source... (in bash)
<Kyral> its set to "hw" right now
<Kyral> the tooltip for the box says "The Linux path to the CTL device (setting for ctl0) used to control the volume
<Kyral> and the PCM one says "Path to the pcm device (Setting for pcm0) that generates the sound"
<Kyral> I'll just use OSS for now
<Kyral> I know there is a reason I compiled backwards compatibility into my kernel for it
<slomo_> why don't you use the standard kernel? ;)
<Kyral> slomo_, because I tweak :D
<Kyral> its the same reason I jumped to Dapper. I get bored if things are too stable
<Kyral> anyway, Need For Speed Underground 2 calls
<bmonty_laptop> are we still sending email to elmo for sync requests?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: or ping him on -devel but I think he sleeps
<bmonty_laptop> I usually just send him an email...sometimes the package gets synced....sometimes not :)
<\sh> he just came back from ubz
<\sh> showering time...:)
<slomo_> \sh: hf :)
<jbailey> bmonty_laptop: The gpg key for that archive is in the snapshots directory
<Gloubiboulga> I'm packaging a french software, should the description in debian/control be in english, or french is ok ?
<Gloubiboulga> the software deals with french vocabulary
<GreaseMonkey> ow CRASH
<siretart> n'evening, folks
<thierry_> I searcing something like a file finder for bash... is it possible with grep?
<herve> find?
<thierry_> herve : thanks!
<herve> but it won't search inside the file contents
<minghua> just user grep in find then :-)
<minghua> s/user/use/
<herve> if you have a filename pattern, yes :-)
<omeg> Hi guys. If I wanted to make suggestions to the Ubuntu art/aesthetics team, then how would I be able to contact them (or any institution that accepts such suggestions)? I intend to make elaborate descriptions with image references.
<herve> maybe there is an #ubuntu-art?
<herve> or search the wiki
<omeg> #ubuntu-art doesn't seem to exist.
<herve> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<omeg> Thanks :)
<\sh> slomo_: ping
<slomo_> \sh: pong
<\sh> slomo_: u had problems with scons before on the buildds, right?
<slomo_> \sh: no, mbreit was this
<\sh> slomo_: ah
<\sh> grmpf..not here...
<\sh> i need to know the solution for this problem http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ardour/0.99-3ubuntu1/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1_20051110-0202-i386-failed.gz
<slomo_> \sh: i told him to come here ;)
<siretart> hey slomo_, hi \sh!
<\sh> ah
<mbreit> hi guys
<siretart> how are things?
<slomo_> hi siretart
<\sh> mbreit: can u have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/ardour/0.99-3ubuntu1/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1_20051110-0202-i386-failed.gz and tell me what was the solution for this scons problem on the buildd?
<herve> \sh, nice python traceback :-)
<\sh> herve: it's bloody scons..it works locally in a pbuilder
<herve> Checking for C header file /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreMIDI.framework/Headers/CoreMIDI.h... no
<mbreit> \sh: iirc infinity did some dirty work-around... he did not tell me any details...
<herve> it seems like that SYSMIDI variable is only filled on NextStep-like systems
<\sh> mbreit: ok..so it needs some buildd admin
<herve> or you lack another build-dependency for midi support
<mbreit> \sh: the problem is that the scons on the buildd sometimes says that gcc would fail but there's no error message from gcc... ardour is not the only package with that problem
<\sh> mbreit: I thought so..because pbuilder doesn't complain
<herve> and scons was already updated/merged?
<mbreit> herve: there that's no problem with dependencies.. it's just scons <-> gcc on the buildd
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> i'm just leaving now ogra for today...bbl
<slomo_> *sigh* someone needs to clean binary NEW :(
<herve> so many new packages from Debian?
<slomo_> herve: maybe... but i need exactly one :P libmagick++9-dev
<herve> ha... life! :-)
* Kyral returns to the default kernel
<Kyral> I got tired of fighting NVidia ;P
<slomo_> Kyral: that was the reason why i bought a radeon 9200 :P
<Kyral> No
<Kyral> I meant having to recompile the drivers :P
<Kyral> for some reason with the Vanilla kernel I have to recompile the NVidia driver on reboot
<herve> I just ruined my zope instance :-(
<Manny> hi
<Kyral> I should bootchart...
<herve> which brings me to the question... do you also have the feeling dapper gets longer to boot than breezy?
<Kyral> For me its a matter of my 4 ReiserFS partitions being checked :P
<SEJeff> herve: Why not use bootchart and set up a comparison
<SEJeff> I would, but I am waiting on harddrives from newegg for my second test machine
<Kyral> IMO, we should put the bootchart deb in the same repo as the Bazzar tools
<Kyral> And I really have to clean up my bootdir
<thierry_> I'm searching a bash command to just find all .desktop files in a directory... find give me strange output, what would be the options to use or wich other command?
<Kyral> I have like 5 kernels
<Kyral> Brb, and will throw the bootchart up
<slomo_> thierry_: find $directory - name '*.desktop*
<thierry_> slomo- : so simple!
<herve> "-name" attached, no?
<slomo_> oh, yes
<slomo_> sorry
<slomo_> thierry_: find $directory -name '*.desktop*
<herve> hmm, and "*.desktop" ?
<herve> I don't know if the trailing star is intentional
<SEJeff> thierry_: find . -name '*.desktop' should work
<slomo_> herve: yes, you're right... not my day ;)
<SEJeff> thierry_: find interprets wildcards strangely if they are not quoted
<mitsuhiko> hiho motus, sorry for the stupid question but is there a gnome developement channel?
<herve> certainly
<lifeless> mitsuhiko: for packagin ?
<herve> several, even
<lifeless> mitsuhiko: or for upstream coding ?
<mitsuhiko> lifeless: no for gnome "api" questions and similar questions
<SEJeff> minghua: irc.gimp.org #gnome
<Kyral> Lets see what this looks like :D
<SEJeff> nick autocomplete messed up
<SEJeff> mitsuhiko: #gnome has been dead all morning though
<mitsuhiko> SEJeff: thx. i will try
<SEJeff> mitsuhiko: #gnome-love has had more activity today
<herve> everybody loves gnome :-)
<SEJeff> exactly :)
<Kyral> Yah there is my problem
<Kyral> ReiserFsck takes a LONG time
<Kyral> I don't have enough buffer to transform every partition into ext3
<Kyral> http://people.clarkson.edu/~petermcv/dapper-20051113-1.png
<herve> bye
* Kyral begins to think if he should use the "sparse-super" option when he makes the ext3 FS
<polpak> Has anyone tried to package the Nvidia Cg Toolset for debian? I saw that someone had started working on it but it was a while ago
<polpak> err not debian, ubuntu
<polpak> I know there is a debian package for it
<polpak> but there's nothing in the ubuntu repositories
<Kyral> LOL I crashed BMP
<Kyral> Anyone good with Filesystems>
<Kyral> How the heck do I mount an ext3 FS in fstab with r/w for all?
<SEJeff> Kyral: /dev/hda1       /directory           ext3    defaults        0       2
<Kyral> ain't working
<Kyral> I'm just gonna chmod 777 the mountpoint
<Kyral> or chown the thing to my user
<lifeless> Kyral: mounting it gives it the stored permissions on it
<Kyral> yah yah...I rmemeber
<lifeless> I think you want uid= and gid= options
<lifeless> but I don't think ext3 supports them
<Kyral> Those don't apply to the ext3 fs
<lifeless> right
<Kyral> I just mounted and chowned
<Kyral> and that sounds INCREDIBLY wrong
<lifeless> mount;fsck;chown;unmount ?
* Kyral groans
<Kyral> that was bad
<thierry_> how could I take a list of files and open all of them with gedit at once in a bash script?
<crimsun> thierry_: there are many ways to obtain the list
<crimsun> thierry_: just pipe the list through wc -l
<thierry_> crimsun : wc -l myfile.txt give me  1  myfile.txt
<crimsun> thierry_: what are the contents of myfile.txt? Use http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl if necessary
<thierry_> crimsun : /home/thierry/dev/gimp-2.2.8/data/misc/gimp.desktop.in.in
<crimsun> right, so that's just that file
<thierry_> that the output of a command that I used in the script, and now I want to open this file with gedit... but sometimes I could get like 5 files to open with gedit...
<thierry_> and I wonder how to do this inside of my script
<crimsun> so, gedit $(cat myfile.txt)
<thierry_> crimsun : thanks! it's working
<crimsun> thierry_: np
<crimsun> 'lo ivoks
* Kyral likes this bootchart concept
<thierry_> crimsun : I have an other question
<crimsun> bootchart rocks
<thierry_> crimsun : package=`zenity --entry --text "Which package source do you want?"`
<thierry_> apt-get source $package > output.txt
<Kyral> I think the concept could be applied to other things
<thierry_> output.txt is not the same thing than when I would do it directly in a shell
<thierry_> crimsun : and I really don't see why
<Kyral> troubleshooting things that is
<thierry_> there's missing the last line (wich I need)
<Kyral> something segfaults we could use something like bootchart to trace the threads graphically
<crimsun> thierry_: I'm unclear what you're attempting to do
<crimsun> i.e., why do you need the output from ''apt-get source $package''?
<thierry_> getting the complete output of  the command apt-get source $package in a file to after that get the exact name of the directory where the package has been unpacked
<thierry_> crimsun : any idea why it acts like that?
<crimsun> thierry_: I don't see any difference (except due to buffering)
<thierry_> crimsun : can you give me the last line you get?
<crimsun> from which?
<thierry_> and what do you mean by buffering
<thierry_> both since it's the same!
<thierry_> crimsun
<crimsun> I get the Fetched... as the last line if I use shell redirection
<crimsun> otherwise I get Applying...
<thierry_> ho ok but retry to get source at the same place
<thierry_> crimsun
<crimsun> I don't understand what you're asking
<crimsun> apt-get source doesn't tell the invoking user what the name of the extracted directory is
<thierry_> because the output is different between the first time (when you download it) and the second time when you just check it (with the same command)
<crimsun> (I'm on Dapper, but it makes no difference)
<crimsun> "just check it"?
<crimsun> oh, you want the Skipping unpack...?
<thierry_> yes
<crimsun> why?
<thierry_> and it gives dpkg-source: extracting gedit in gedit-2.12.1 for the first time
<thierry_> well because you get, for example gedit-2.12.1 and that's the directory where it's unpacked
<thierry_> you were talking about some buffering thing... what's that? maybe that's my problem
<crimsun> no, I don't think the buffering has anything to do with what you're asking
<thierry_> k...
<crimsun> which I still don't have any idea about
<crimsun> dpkg-source isn't going to clobber what exists
<thierry_> crimsun : but the problem is that I don't get Skipping unpack in output.txt and I need it
<crimsun> but why do you need it?
<thierry_> to get for example gedit-2.12.1 : "Skipping unpack of already unpacked source in gedit-2.12.1
<thierry_> "
<thierry_> after that I know that the package gedit is in gedit-2.12.1
<thierry_> crimsun : do you see why now?
<crimsun> why can't you just use dpkg-source's output?
<crimsun> grep for extracting and awk out the appropriate field
<crimsun> which is just one of $foo ways to do it
<thierry_> awk? can you give an example?
<tseng> awk '{print $2}'
<tseng> where 2 is the second space seperated field
<tseng> (or is it the third?)
<crimsun> apt-get source $package | grep extracting | awk '{ print $5 }'
<tseng> crimsun: man now what will he learn
<thierry_> ok but to grep it I need the las line! I'll put my script on http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl so it's going to be more clear
<crimsun> thierry_: no, you don't need the last line. There's no need to fetch the source twice.
<thierry_> crimsun : http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4502
<crimsun> thierry_: the -first- time you invoke dpkg-source from apt-get source, the directory is printed. I just gave you example syntax.
<thierry_> I need the las line in a variable because I do a if grep $variable in it
<thierry_> last*
<crimsun> why do you need the last line?
<thierry_> kk
<crimsun> what precisely is the variable supposed to contain?
<thierry_> I see what you mean, I'll try it
<thierry_> crimsun look at http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/4502
<crimsun> thierry_: that's overly complicated.
<thierry_> crimsun : can you show me how to simpleise it?
<crimsun> thierry_: just dpkg-deb -c foo.deb|grep '.desktop'
<crimsun> well, what are you trying to do?
<crimsun> I presume you're going to edit the .desktop?
<thierry_> crimsun : in fact I'm trying to do a script to fix these issues : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath#preview
<crimsun> if you're going to do that, then your current script is fine (just needs to handle cases where desktop is made from desktop.in)
<hunger> hi there.
<crimsun> you need to replace your current apt-get source line with the one that I gave you
<crimsun> hi hunger
<thierry_> I want to download the source package, cd in it, find the *.desktop and *.deskopt.* in the source, edit them with gedit, dch -i, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -S , cd back in dev, and debdiff for a patch
<crimsun> you'll want to set -e at the top of the script (underneath the hashbang)
<crimsun> then you can eliminate the echo "foo"
<crimsun> also, simplify your current if clause to check if $(cat output.txt) is a directory, then go from there
<crimsun> once you use the grep+awk modification, there's no point in checking the last line
<crimsun> in fact, that entire if clause can be eliminated, because it doesn't make any sense
<thierry_> k going to try that
<siretart> hey janimo!
<janimo> hey siretart
<janimo> I still haven;t sent the mail :)
<janimo> sorry
<hunger> hi siretart.
<janimo> could not set up gmail smtp from Tb although a while ago a could
<kapputu> hello everyon,e I want to contribute to the ubuntu community
<kapputu> where do I get started?
<hunger> siretart: Finally got into contact with the GSoC debian-xen guy.
<hunger> siretart: We will work together on improving the xen debs.
<siretart> janimo: its about your account ;)
<siretart> hey hunger!
<siretart> hunger: great news! :)
<kapputu> hello??
<kapputu> I want to help, I need some guidance
<siretart> kapputu: hey!
<kapputu> hi siretart
<siretart> kapputu: in which part do you want to contribute?
<kapputu> I don't know
<janimo> siretart, I know, I still did not send yoy the encrypted mail
<siretart> kapputu: what do you think you could contribute?
<kapputu> at present I need to be told what to do
<hunger> siretart: That ass has a Quad Xeon machine to test on... while I have to use a virtual machine on my laptop... the world is soooo unfair;-)
<kapputu> my English skills are good, so I think I can contribute to the documentation
<kapputu> my coding skills in Perl, Java are fairly good and I'm learning Python
<siretart> kapputu: great! we have a lovely DocTeam, which always needs help
<kapputu> I'm not good with Art work
<siretart> kapputu: Burgundavia is one of the leads of them
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<kapputu> so right now I need to be told what to do
<siretart> Burgundavia: May I introduce you a volunteer for the DocTeam: kapputu :)
<kapputu> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> siretart, cheers
<Burgundavia> salut kapputu
<crimsun> 'lo janimo
<janimo> hey crimsun
<Burgundavia> kapputu, you want to join #ubuntu-doc?
<kapputu> sjre
<kapputu> sure
<janimo> any CDBS fans here? I have a couple questions
<janimo> it sets CFLAGS by default and I want it to leave them alone as set in the project makefile
<janimo> I'll just use good ole debhelper since that works even if a bit ugly
<thierry_> crimsun : the output of apt-get source $package | grep extracting | awk '{ print $5 }' is perfect but I can't get it in $path
<thierry_> maybe I do something wrong, how would you do it?
<crimsun> path=$(apt-get source $package | grep extracting | awk '{ print $5 }')
<thierry_> ho ok
<crimsun> back later.
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-19
<thierry_> crimsun : Is there anyway to make some following command to wait that I have finished to edit the files with gedit? or do I need to run something like editor command?
<siretart> crimsun: when doing merges, dont forget to use the -v flag in dpkg-buildpackage
<siretart> crimsun: so the all missing changelogs gets in the changes file
<siretart> slomo_: you, too ;)
<Kyral> Hey can you increase the number of loopback devices?
<crimsun> Kyral: beyond the default?
<crimsun> siretart: nod
<crimsun> Kyral: sudo modprobe max_loop=256  should suffice
<Kyral> nm he found out fine
<crimsun> anything over and beyond requires mucking with source
<Kyral> He was mounting ISOs on loopbacks
<crimsun> more than 256?
<Kyral> no, he just didn't know how to increase the number
<Kyral> crimsun, just curious, when is the new XFCE gonna be sync'd in?
<crimsun> Kyral: when Debian has packaged it
<Kyral> thats what I thought
<crimsun> pkg-xfce still has quite a few bugs, particularly on ppc
<Kyral> I am really amazed with XFCE's compmgr
<Kyral> It seems to turn itself off when it realizes its not needed
<Kyral> Like if I was running GNOME + xcompmgr and I tried to run ANYTHING through Cedega, X would crashout
<Kyral> but with XFCE it seems to turn off compmgr when I use Cedega
<crimsun> fairly early on, oliver decided to write his own
<Kyral> oliver?
<crimsun> I don't use those extensions
<crimsun> lead developer of Xfce
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> I thought orga for a second :D
<Kyral> Well, he did a very good job :D
<polpak> I'm just curious, but if there are packages in Debian for some libraries and whatnot, why wouldn't there also be Ubuntu packages?
<sivang> MOrning all
<polpak> hello
<sivang> hey polpak
<polpak> Do you know much about the packages in universe?
<polpak> I'm basically wondering how to get packages built for Debian into Ubuntu universe..
<Nafallo> yes, we maintain them.
<Nafallo> they get auto-synced from Debian in here.
<polpak> ok
<polpak> I'm looking to get some ubuntu packages for a 3d rendering engine called ogre
<polpak> I know that debian has them, but ubuntu doesn't
<polpak> someone was talking about adding them to ubuntu
<sivang> polpak: so you probably need to check the build logs, they may have failed building?
<sivang> Nafallo: any idea?
<Nafallo>       ogre |    1.0.5-1 | http://localhost dapper/universe Sources
<Nafallo> probably FTBFS
<polpak> FTBFS?
<Nafallo> Failed To Build From Source
<sivang> polpak: as I thought, there was probably some problem with building the binary from the source pkg
<polpak> oh
<polpak> I know how to build it
<Nafallo> I'm looking at it.
<polpak> from source
<polpak> mostly it just has a lot of dependancies
<Nafallo> missing build-deps
<polpak> but the dependancies are also available as debian packages AFAIK
<polpak> Need any help getting all the needed deps?
<Nafallo> polpak: just let me try this build I have running first.
<polpak> ok
<Nafallo> polpak: built locally now :-)
<polpak> =)
<Nafallo> * Added Build-Dep on x11proto-xf86vidmode-dev.
<polpak> what is that one?
<polpak> I don't recall seeing it
<Nafallo> Description: X11 Video Mode extension wire protocol
<polpak> Hrm. I'll take your word for it =)
<polpak> I know it depends on the nvidia-cg-toolkit
<polpak> and that's also not available in Breezy
<Nafallo> ouch! lot's of lintian errors
<polpak> lintian, as in from lint?
<Nafallo> Description: Debian package checker
<polpak> ah
<zakame> hi all
<polpak> hi
<Nafallo> polpak: anyway, uploaded.
<polpak> Nafallo: uploaded ?
<Nafallo> to the archive. will be in as soon as the build-machines are finished.
<polpak> Nafallo: sorry if I'm too noob. I'm coming from a fedora environment
<polpak> it'll be in breezy universe?
<Nafallo> nope, breezy is now 5.10 and frozen.
<Nafallo> will be in dapper
<polpak> oh
<polpak> so I've got to get it from backports?
<polpak> if someone adds it?
<Nafallo> sure, ask jdong or Mez when you see them.
<polpak> or wait 6 months.. ? ;p
<tseng> or you could upgrade and help out.
<polpak> tseng: I would, but I wouldn't really know where to start
<zakame> hi zyga
<zyga> zakame: good morning :-)
* zyga hates current RL job
<mr-russ> What is needed if I want to maintain, or help maintain a package?
<crimsun> please see the topic
* mr-russ goes and reads all links.
<dholbach> hellas
<zakame> webaks dholbach :D
<dholbach> webaks? hi zakame :)
<zakame> dholbach: welcome back :)
<dholbach> what language is that? :)
<zakame> pinoy internet slang, i presume, just heard about it from -ph :)
<Treenaks> :)
<dholbach> still no motu report :/
<dholbach> anyone want to add stuff from last month + ubz? i'm going to write it now
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReport
<dholbach> er ... http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
<sivang> dholbach: if you would send me links for info, I can do it if you want :)
<dholbach> sivang: that's part of the work :)
<dholbach> finding out...
<dholbach> i enjoy doing the writing, but i simply forget stuff that happened
<Nafallo> dholbach: We have released Ubuntu 5.10 :-)
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Ubuntu Bugzilla bugzilla: not well-formed (invalid token): line 88, column 76
<zakame> eh?
<Nafallo> zakame: what? :-)
<crimsun> (Ubugtu is a bot that automatically pulls Malone info if it sees a bug #)
<crimsun> bug #4437
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4437: waili: merge new debian version Fix req. for: waili (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4437
<Nafallo> or bugzilla if it sees Ubuntu it seems ;-)
<zakame> ah... so that's why Ubugtu just ponged
<zakame> as in Ubuntu 5.10
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Ubuntu Bugzilla bugzilla: not well-formed (invalid token): line 88, column 76
<Nafallo> Ubuntu 510
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #510: /usr/bin/ld: assertion fails on mips/mipsel Product: Ubuntu, Component: binutils, Severity: major, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: DUPLICATE http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=510
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<zakame> bbl, be uploading some debdiffs
<dholbach> minghua: do you happen to know what is wrong with breezy's scim?
<dholbach> minghua: i got a users mail about it, but i'm not quite sure, what he's referring to
<dholbach> how about mentioning NEW software we got in in the MOTU report?
<dholbach> can somebody of the 'motu' launchpad team drop "danielholbach" and add "dholbach" please?
<dholbach> who of you became ubuntu member and wants to be a MOTU soon?
* hunger does not even know what that meens:-(
<crimsun> dholbach: I deactivated danieldolbach and added dholbach, but I think ogra will need to bump dholbach to Administrator status
<dholbach> crimsun: thanks for that
<crimsun> np
* crimsun heads to bed for a few hours before work
<crimsun> later guys
<hunger> launchpad is almost usable when not viewed in IE:-)
<hunger> How can I have my launchpad account deleted again?
<hunger> Looks like I got two of them.
<Treenaks> hunger: how about using lynx? :)
<hunger> Treenaks: And that will delete accounts?
<Treenaks> no
<hunger> Treenaks: lynx is not available on a windows box:-( Windows is my only connection into the net during the week.
<hunger> Hi selinium
<selinium> Hi hunger :)
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft
<dholbach> please change and add missing stuff
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
<lucas> zyga: are you planning to do something for moturuby ?
<dholbach> hellas dredg
<Tonio_> hi everyone
<dholbach> hey Tonio_
<Tonio_> dholbach: Upgrading pwmanager because of new upstream release
<Tonio_> maybe this one will upload correctly :)
<zyga> lucas: yes
<zyga> lucas: but now I'm overloaded with RL job
<Tonio_> dholbach: I will upload all my waiting packages toonight
<dholbach> Tonio_: elmo should know, what went wrong
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> thanks for your work on this
<Tonio_> I was in vacation and lost much time ;)
<codepoet> Alrighty, who's going to help me get started with some suggestions I need to make and/or universe access? haha
<dholbach> codepoet: what do you want to do?
<codepoet> well
<codepoet> there are some suggestions i need to make to the appropriate people and/or be able to change them myself
<dholbach> like what?
<codepoet> for one, the acx100 driver provided is old and locks up systems, including my own
<codepoet> second
<dredg> dholbach: morning
<dholbach> codepoet: that's something you should talk about in #ubuntu-kernel :)
<codepoet> ok
<dholbach> codepoet: they are most likely to fix it
<codepoet> second
<hunger_> codepoet: That's a bugreport, no suggestion IMHO.
<codepoet> apt network repository testing during installation freezes if your wireless card isn't configured right
<dholbach> freezes in which way?
<codepoet> at 50$
<codepoet> 50%
<dholbach> (sounds like a bugreport to me too)
<codepoet> which is 1/2 of it
<codepoet> ok
<codepoet> also
<codepoet> lilo installation doesn't work period
<dholbach> lilo? we use grub
<codepoet> if you select lilo, it just doesn't work
<codepoet> yeah
<dholbach> ah ok... hm
<doko> anybody knows if \sh_away is still away?
<codepoet> but lilo is sill in the installer
<codepoet> it's mentioned
<dholbach> sounds like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com is way to go
<codepoet> and is supposed to work, i suppose
<codepoet> also, if you don't specify a hostname during the install you can't do anything unless you go into recovery mode and modify /etc/hosts
<codepoet> very inconvenient
<codepoet> a new user would be thrilled haha
<dholbach> thanks for inspecting the installer that closely... it would be nice, if you filed bugs for those
<codepoet> one last thing though
<codepoet> haha
<codepoet> and this is the kicker
<codepoet> breezy comes with gcc 3.3
<codepoet> the kernels are compiled for 3.4
<dholbach> it comes with gcc4
<codepoet> if you have no network access and need to compile a network card driver -- you're screwed
<dholbach> yes, that's a problem
<codepoet> right
<codepoet> idk why they choose 3.3 if they compiled them with 3.4
<codepoet> if they're stable enough for the kernels
<dholbach> gcc4
<codepoet> right
<codepoet> as default
<dholbach> there were problems with building the kernel with gcc 4
<codepoet> but gcc-3.3-base also comes with it
<dholbach> i guess there wasnt enough space to ship 2 sets of compilers with the cd
<codepoet> which is i suppose a way to appease people that had to use 3 still
<dholbach> which is... yes ... problematic
<codepoet> right
<codepoet> and there was one more thing i couldn't pinpoint as a problem but it was very annoying
<hunger> codepoet: I think gcc-3.3 base is needed for some proprietary apps (acroread). Maybe it was included due to that.
<codepoet> failsafe gnome, default session, all of them twice on me failed to bring up gnome after gdm login, they would just freeze
<codepoet> and Ctrl+Alt+Backspace would just NOT bring down gdm no matter how many times you did it, when after crashing 3 times it would ask if you wanted to go to the console on many distros
<dholbach> anyone from the mono team here? anyone like to package lat (ldap administration tool) - it comes with a basic debian packaging already, but would need some love (http://people.mmgsecurity.com/~lorenb/lat/)
<dholbach> codepoet: i think that was fixed in the last gdm (in dapper)
<codepoet> ok cool
<codepoet> good deal
<dholbach> but anyway... bug reports are a better way of writing those down :)
<codepoet> ok
<codepoet> i'll do that
<codepoet> is there any chance one of you could point me in the right direction of getting some kind of developer or tester or some kind of status so i can contribute?
<codepoet> other than bugreports, i suppose is what i mena
<codepoet> mean*
<dholbach> codepoet: we have quite a lot of teams going on... the MOTU team of course, we're about to form a team of bug squashers and quite some others... it depends what you want to do in the ubuntu landscape :)
<codepoet> everything
<codepoet> haha
<codepoet> for one
<dholbach> cool :)
<codepoet> if there's not an official maintainer of the acx100 driver i'd like to take the part
<lucas> rah
<lucas> ruby sucks so much in breezy
<dholbach> you should talk to the kernel guys... i guess they'll be quite happy to have somebody helping them out
<lucas> it doesn't even know that 30 Aug + 1 day = 31 Aug, not 01 Sep
<codepoet> another, i'm a C/C++ programmer so i can contribute to a few things
<dholbach> codepoet: we're currently merging the debian changes, which is A LOT of work and everybody would be happy if you'd help out there
<codepoet> yeah, i was a former debian maintainer
<bmonty_laptop> merges are fun!
<dholbach> rock'n'roll
<dholbach> nice to hear that
<codepoet> even though ubuntu just refuses to fscking work for me no matter what i do, i have hope in the project
<dholbach> thanks for that :)
<codepoet> i hope to at least have dapper as my main OS
<codepoet> until then it's Windows + QEMU for me
<dholbach> hey slomo
<slomo> hi dholbach :)
<slomo> is elmo awake again for syncs?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge  |  please have a look at http://wiki.ubun
<dholbach> ARG
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge  |  please review MOTUReportDraft
<lucas> dholbach: do you have an ETA for a ubuntu-motu mailing list ?
<lucas> most of the members of MOTURuby are not subscribed to ubuntu-devel, so there's no real way to contact them
<dholbach> lucas: jdub is not here, working on it
<lucas> what are my chances to get an upload of a new ruby version in breezy-updates ?
<lucas> since ruby is in main
<womble> I'm looking for a MOTU who will be coming LCA2006 in Dunedin, to talk to the Debian miniconf about Universe, what it's like deriving from Debian, and what Debian is doing well and poorly from the MOTU perspective.
<dholbach> ajmitch_: ^? :)
<womble> If you fit this description, chat to me now or e-mail me at mpalmer@hezmatt.org
<dholbach> Lathiat: were you planning to be there? ^ :)
<Gloubiboulga> hi
<sivang> dholbach: the report looks quite good, what else did you want to include in it?
<bmonty_laptop> hi Gloubiboulga
<sivang> hey bmonty_laptop
<dholbach> sivang: whatever happened and i forgot
<bmonty_laptop> hi siretart
<bmonty_laptop> er...sivang
* bmonty_laptop curses at X-Chat's nick completion
<sivang> bmonty_laptop: hehe, use irssi :)
<sivang> dholbach: what about sitestart being approved for main?
<sivang> dholbach: (during UBZ)
<bmonty_laptop> sivang: nah, I'm to used to X-Chat to switch :)
<dholbach> sivang: oh yes... that's a good one, would you mind to add it?
<Tonio_> dholbach: new version of pwmanager (1.4.1) uploaded (just for your information)
<dholbach> Tonio_: cool, if something strange happens, talk to elmo please
<sivang> dholbach: not at all :)
<dholbach> sivang: merci
<Tonio_> dholbach: yep
<Tonio_> dholbach: when I say uploaded, I mean on revu ;)
<sivang> dholbach: no prob.
<dholbach> ah ok :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: it still needs to be approved and uploaded
<dholbach> ok, will look at it later
<Tonio_> dholbach: thanks ;)
<sivang> dholbach: could you let me know if you like it?
<codepoet> ok
<dholbach> sivang: stuper
<dholbach> sivang: super
<codepoet> all 6 bugs have been documented
<sivang> dholbach: merci :)
<dholbach> codepoet: thanks for that
<codepoet> oops
<codepoet> seems there was already a duplicate of one bug
<codepoet> yay
<codepoet> it's not just me
<raphink> hi :)
<raphink> siretart: I've sent a request to add my key to the REVU keyring. Did you get it?
<Tonio_> dholbach: what would you do if the homepage URL in the extended description of a package is too long and causes a lintian error ?
<Tonio_> would you let it or remove it ?
<dholbach> probably remove it
<Tonio_> okay
<Tonio_> and let a note on revu on the reason it isn't added maybe ?
<dholbach> if it's in debian/copyright it's ok
<Tonio_> dholbach: it is
<Tonio_> dholbach: rebuilding it and uploading it, thanks !
<dholbach> de rien
<Tonio_> dholbach: when you come to Paris, poke me and we'll have a bear, speaking french, I'd much appreciate it ;)
<dholbach> hehe... bien sur :)
<Tonio_> ^_^
<\sh> i need elmo somehow
<zakame> hi ho
<Lathiat> dholbach, womble: I'll be at lca2006
<Lathiat> womble: i can do that if you like
<dholbach> Lathiat: if you want, i can provide you with slides on a community / motu talk
<Lathiat> dholbach: cool
<dholbach> Lathiat: lathiat@bur.st ?
<Lathiat> i'll be there may as well make the most of it :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: yeh
<Lathiat> or @ubuntu.com
<dholbach> Lathiat: rock, will take care of it later
<Lathiat> cheers
<Lathiat> should organize my passport this week
<Lathiat> womble: i'd prefer a day 1 talk so i can goto GCA on day 2
<Lathiat> bbs
<womble> Lathiat: I'm pretty sure that could be arranged (day 1 vs day 2).  Thanks so much for offering to talk.
<dholbach> so who could have a final look at MOTUReportDraft, so i can mail it out?
<zakame> I was reading it, 'tis nice :)
<Lathiat> womble: nps
<Lathiat> wo	so what els eis on the agenda?
<womble> Lathiat: It's fairly early stages yet -- Jon Oxer and I really only got together for our first planning meeting this morning.
<Lathiat> womble: ah cool
<Lathiat> i know jon i like him :)
<Lathiat> he'll knwo who i am
<womble> Excellent.
<bmonty_laptop> dholbach: report looks great to me....probably the best I have seen so far
<Lathiat> did a talk at the 03 miniconf on using ipv6
<dholbach> bmonty_laptop: wow... thank you
<womble> Lathiat: So you're a seasoned pro then... <grin>
<bmonty_laptop> UBZ info is very useful
<Lathiat> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | somebody please help writing up the MOTU report: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft/ | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<dholbach> sent the mail...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<dholbach> sorry for the noise
<zakame> dholbach: yay!
<zakame> hmmm, when updating merges shall I also update the Standards-Version?
<bradb> siretart: ping
<bradb> siretart: Just curious: was that "avifile: merge new debian version" dup problem due to some script testing you were doing?
<zakame> hi SEJeff
<zakame> and Seveas too :D
<Seveas> hi
<\sh> bradb: I don't think so
<zakame> just to be sure, do I debdiff my changes from the original debian version, or from the MoM version?
<whiprush_> dholbach: Issue 9 has been Fridged!
<dholbach> whiprush_: ROCK'NROLL
<dholbach> thank you
<zakame> jerome!
<jsgotangco> hiya
<siretart> yay, one internal server in my department was just upgraded from woody to breezy :)
<zakame> siretart: w00t
<siretart> it is also installation server for clients which are used by students (also installing breezy) :)
<slomo> Nafallo: kernel build failed everywhere :(
<Nafallo> udev?
<slomo> no, some weird wlan driver
<Nafallo> rt2500? ;-)
<slomo> now
<slomo> no
<slomo> something beginning with z :P
<slomo> look at the log
<Nafallo> oki :-)
<raphink> siretart: I sent my key this morning to subscribe to REVU. Did you get it?
<siretart> raphink: I think so, but I'm currently at work
<Nafallo> woohoo! libmagick9 seems to be NEW'd'
<Treenaks> omgwtf!?
<raphink> siretart: ok :)
<hunger> Hi siretart.
<bmonty_laptop> is it ok if I put a merged package onto REVU?
<zakame> can any master please check Malone #4085?
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<bmonty_laptop> Malone #4443
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<hunger> This Ubugtu is annoying.
<hunger> #1 annoyance:-)
<Nafallo> Malone 4443
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<bmonty_laptop> hunger: its helpful when it works
<Nafallo> hmm, odd
<hunger> bmonty_laptop: Dunno... maybe.
<zakame> iirc it was ok earlier
<bmonty_laptop> it works on #ubuntu-bugs
<hunger> bmonty_laptop: The idea is good, but the thing is too noisy for my taste.
<bmonty_laptop> yeah maybe it should only respond if it is asked....not parse conversations
<hunger> bmonty_laptop: Now, then it would rock:-)
<\sh> argl
<hunger> pepito: Just using /dev/input/mice and hoping for the best does not suffice?
<\sh> my first day at work...and completly fcked
<hunger> Sorry, wrong channel.
<zakame> \sh: how come?
<zakame> hmm, does lpbugs.py work with gmail?
<zakame> I'm getting smtp auth not supported by server :(
<bmonty_laptop> zakame: get the lastest version
<zakame> bmonty_laptop: via bzr pull, right?
<\sh> zakame: gmail is not supporting standard smtp auth
<\sh> zakame: it's a non problem with smtplib and gmail
<\sh> s/non/known/
<\sh> btw
<\sh> anyone read Dokos announcement on ubuntu-devel ML
<\sh> ?
<zakame> \sh: ah... so in other words I can't use this
<\sh> about touching again some library packages and renaming them?
<\sh> zakame: well..if u need a real smtp server with working functionality...i can help u out
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: there are some spelling/grammer issues with text lpbugs puts in launchpad...are you interested in patches if I update them?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: sure :)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: yeah I just read it
<Tonio_> little question: does anyone know if there is a kind of cdbs .mk file for scons ?
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: ok, I'll fix them up a little and email you the patch
<\sh> ok...anyone against this idea, that i#m taking over this task?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: do u have bzr?
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I installed it, but I haven't had any time to learn how to use it
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: ok..send me a patch :)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: do I make changes and then 'bzr commit'?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: yes...and then u give me the location where I can merge from
<bmonty_laptop> k
<zakame> \sh: hmmm, I've just tried again using my own shell account, lpbugs doesn't work either, still same error
<\sh> zakame: did u change from smtp to sendmail? try it with a local mta configured
<zakame> will try
<bmonty_laptop> cya all later
<zakame> bye bmonty_laptop
<hunger> How do I make sure a set of debs is at the same version?
* hunger wants to force updates for all of his xen debs at the same time so that all are from the same sources.
<hunger> siretart: Got a working dom0 with my debs:-) Progress! ;-)
<hunger> Can I use the current version in debian/control?
<raphink> I'd like to package kim but it's only a collection of bash scripts with an install.sh script
<raphink> can it be packaged ?
<hunger> raphink: Why not?
<raphink> hunger: just wondering
<raphink> dh_make won't do anything about it
<hunger> raphink: If it can get installed, then it can get packaged;-)
<raphink> since there's no makefile
<hunger> raphink: Remove that.
<raphink> well the question is rather : _how_ can it be packaged ?
<sivang> raphink: you would probably only need to create a $pkg.install file to copy files from the pkg to the right location
<hunger> raphink: the install targets basically only need to call the install script.
<sivang> raphink: you'd need to use dh_install probably
<sivang> sombody please correct me if I am talking rubbish :)
<hunger> raphink: or do what sivang says:-)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> well the install script uses a qt dialog
<raphink> I think this is not suitable in a package
<raphink> it asks for a choice between 3 actions and then puts the bash scripts in teh right places
<sivang> raphink: you should then try to convert i into a debconf question..
<hunger> raphink: Oh... then you will need to copy the files "manually" in the appropriate install target.
<siretart> hunger: w00t!
<raphink> sivang: so I would have to basically convert the install.sh into a pre script with debconf and a post script installing the scripts in the system
<raphink> right?
<hunger> raphink: If there is no place where it belongs in debian then converting the dialog into a debconf question might be a good idea.
<hunger> siretart: ?
<raphink> hunger: kim is just a series of scripts that add a submenu in Konqueror to manage images
<hunger> raphink: Then all you need to do is figure out where the scripts need to go in ubuntu's konqueror install.
<hunger> raphink: And declare a dependencies on konqueror.
<raphink> hunger: that's what the install.sh script does
<raphink> yes I guess so hunger
<raphink> there is a dependency on konqueror and imagemagick
<raphink> the pb is not the dependencies actually for me but rather the way to package it
<hunger> raphink: Doesen't sound to hard to do then;-)
<siretart> hunger: yay for your dom0 debs
<raphink> just have to know how hunger ;)
<hunger> siretart: Oh, thanks.
<sivang> raphink: I think so...but better follow hunger's suggestions :)
<hunger> sivang: I have no clue what I am talking about;-)
<raphink> lol
<sivang> hunger: err, then you fooled me :) I'm really insecure still with pkging question, but I try my best helping without causing harm :)
<hunger> raphink: You should get a template with that script...
<raphink> what do you mean hunger ?
<hunger> raphink: Then you should be able to remove all the stuff in the build rules.
<sivang> hunger: there must be something like that somewhere
<hunger> raphink: Let me check... only ever used that script once:-)
<raphink> ok
<sivang> hunger: as a ready template , probably for python stuff that doesn't need pyc
<hunger> siretart: Can I use the current version number of the debs in debian/control?
<raphink> so if I understand well
<raphink> the easiest way should be to use a .install
<hunger> raphink: dh_make....
<raphink> and use dh_install in the rules
<hunger> raphink: that's what it was called;-)
<raphink> hunger: dh_make says it finds no makefile
<hunger> raphink: I'd try "touch Makefile" then;-)
<hunger> raphink: But don't listen to me too carefully, I only started on my first deb last week.
<raphink> hehe
<hunger> raphink: I'm messing around a lot without a clear idea of how things should work.
<raphink> hmmm
<siretart> hunger: err, what do you mean with 'current version number'?
<raphink> I think I should only ask a debconf question in a pre script
<raphink> and then use the install script as it is in a post
<hunger> siretart: The newest changelog entry.
<hunger> siretart: I want to make sure that you only use a set of debs from the same revision.
<siretart> hunger: what do you currently have as version number?
<hunger> siretart: 3.0pre20051113-0ubuntu1
<Gazer> Hi, Universe bugs are reported in Malone, right ?
<hunger> I think...
<siretart> hunger: you can force this with versioned depends
<hunger> siretart: Yeap... my question is: How so?
<siretart> that version number sounds sane
<Nafallo> Gazer: yes
<hunger> siretart: I hoped so;-) It is  < 3.0.0 so there shouldn't be a problem when the stable version is released.
<siretart> hunger: oh, that easy: place a 'Depends: hypervisor (= ${Source-Version})'
<siretart> in debian/control
<siretart> or how your dependency tree actually is
<siretart> please try to avoid circular dependencies
<hunger> siretart: Thanks! I was looking for that ${Source-Version};-)
<hunger> siretart: Do I need to Replace << ${S-V}?
<Gazer> Nafallo, thx
<siretart> no
<raphink> is there a tool to make scripts using debconf easily?
<raphink> or should scripts with debconf be written manually?
<hunger> raphink: What do you want to use debconf for?
<raphink> well I'm wondering what I shall do actually lol
<hunger> raphink: Wasen't that QT dialog about figuring out where the files must go?
<raphink> the kim install.sh script asks whether you want a default install or an install with plugins
<raphink> that's what the qt dialog asks
<hunger> raphink: Why not do a "kim" deb and a "kim-plugins" deb?
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> that might do it
<hunger> raphink: You can suggest the plugins from the kim one and depend on kim in the plugins.
<raphink> except that the installation with plugins is just one more file
<raphink> I don't think it's a good idea to make a new package for just one more line
<hunger> raphink: Then just install that file and be done with it;-)
<raphink> yep I'll install the plugins by default
<raphink> but then
<raphink> sorry for all these stupid questions ;)
<hunger> raphink: ... or is that file huge?
<raphink> I don't think so hunger
<hunger> raphink: No problem. I'm waiting on debuild anyway:-)
<raphink> hunger: http://ubuntu-fr.pastebin.com/429199
<raphink> this is the install.sh script
<hunger> raphink: I wouldn't start another package for that;-)
<raphink> how shall I use it to make a package and have each script installed in the right place is what I don't understand
<raphink> well it's a useful tool hunger
<hunger> raphink: How big is the plugins dir?
<raphink> 5.5kB LOL
<hunger> raphink: Why do they ask about installing the plugins for 5kB? Does it add lots of entries into the menus?
<raphink> no idea, I never tried without
<raphink> it adds two functions
<raphink> well more actually
<raphink> it adds movie options
<raphink> anyway that's not the main point
<raphink> ;)
<Gloubiboulga> How can I send a bug correction on a Universe package ?
<Gloubiboulga> and hello everyone :)
<raphink> hunger: the main point is : how do I sent the package to instlal the components ?
<raphink> *set
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: a patch?
<hunger> raphink: Copy the stuff under 2) in that pastebin file into debian/rules (install-indep).
<raphink> ok
<hunger> raphink: remove everything not appropriate in there... that should have been it.
<raphink> hmm
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, I don't know.. a patch is enough ?
<hunger> raphink: Make sure that the stuff is installed in debian/tmp!
<raphink> I'd have to know what is appropriate and what is not I guess
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you can "add attachment" or something on the bug - if you put the patch there, that'd be great
<hunger> raphink: Well, does it have man pages?
<raphink> nope hunger, only an html manual
<Gloubiboulga> ok dholbach
<hunger> raphink So you don't need dh_installman;-)
<hunger> raphink: Read the docs.
<Gloubiboulga> btw, I've sent a package on revu (my first "official" package)
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, the bug report should be done on malone, right ?
<Gloubiboulga> can't see any "add attachment"
* raphink doesn't understnad how to do things :(
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: "+ Add Attachment" - right hand side
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: if you opened a bug
<Gloubiboulga> :( I have to buy new eyes
<toma> evening!
<toma> my application just entered debian unstable, will it go automatically into dapper in that case?
<dholbach> toma: in the next days it should
<toma> dholbach: ok, thanks.
<dholbach> Lathiat: new gnome-user-share :)
<Kyral> New kernel sources!
<dholbach> would it make sense to have a beagle-dev package?
<dholbach> to split out "libbeagle" and the beagle*.pc files?
<dholbach> i have a package which would build-depend on beagle
<dholbach> i'd rather like it to be just beagle-dev to build-dep on
<dholbach> mono team, anyone?
<herve> hello
<dholbach> hellas herve
<raphink> yop herve
<herve> raphik, I knew you were French :-)
<raphink> how so herve ?
<herve> the "yop"
<minghua> dholbach: I'm back
<raphink> lol
<dholbach> tseng: where do i get libbeagle-0.0.pc?
<raphink> bon j'aurais pu dire plop ;)
<dholbach> minghua: hey
<minghua> dholbach: the first thing you should ask is if they use 3rd-party apps, i.e. Debian #323216
<minghua> dholbach: I've heard about other reasons for crash, but I can't pinpoint it yet
<dholbach> ah right, will do that
<dholbach> they could strace their app or debug it otherwise
<dholbach> minghua: thanks, will do that
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: I think I have the bzr stuff setup correctly, check out http://www.montynet.org/bzr/motu-tools
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: merged and pushing the merges to tiber
<\sh> thx :)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: so I managed to use bzr correctly :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: and it wasn't difficult :)
<bmonty_laptop> nope
* \sh <--- dinner
<Kyral> I still need to get around to merging stuff
<whiprush_> dholbach: thanks for the deskbar-applet love!
<dholbach> :-)
* \sh will check now the merges list of MoM for the libraries...so I can sync them and transition them
<\sh> hmmmm
<\sh> any objections to update to dapper?
<Kyral> You aren't on it?
<\sh> no...why should i?
<Kyral> Dunno
<Kyral> I dist-upgraded the first day
<\sh> so lets go on the nc6000 first
<siretart> \sh: I forgot to tell you yesterday, I hacked a bit on options checking, please merge my motu-tools branch
<\sh> done
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: now all we have to do is add a debian dir and make it a package
<bmonty_laptop> how can I sign an already created changes file?
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: debsign?
<bmonty_laptop> thanks
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: no..wait for my UI interface :)
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: oh yeah...I'm looking forward to it
<markuman> hey masters: http://home.arcor.de/sip85/00009.jpg :-D
<herve> markuman, where's the caption? :-)
<siretart> nice
<dholbach> markuman: who are those guys? can you give names?
<dholbach> i just know one of them :)
<markuman> dholbach: you know smurf :-)
<dholbach> yeah
<markuman> it is from the german ubuntu club/association. it was founding last weekend
<dholbach> can you give names of the different people?
<markuman> dholbach: ehm, yes. but i think no one knows the names. i know there nick names in irc and some realnames
<dholbach> fire away
<raphink> guys I might be dumb but I browsed the whole debian maintainer's guide and have found no answer to my pb :(
<dholbach> raphink: what problem is it?
<raphink> dholbach: I'd like to package Kim, which is a collection of bash sccript
<raphink> script
<raphink> the "source" package contains an install.sh script that tells where each script has to go
<raphink> but I don't know how I should turn that into a deb package
<raphink> :s
<dholbach> raphink: i suggest you take a look at *very simple* python packages, which just install a bunch of files to wherever they should be
<raphink> if I should create a Makefile (and I don't know how to do that) or use debian/rules
<herve> erm
<raphink> dholbach: well I've packaged two programs already
<herve> most python packages use setup.py
<herve> like mine (to be reviewed *hint* *hint)
<raphink> but I think kim is a nice set of scripts and I'd like to have it packaged
<dholbach> herve: most python packages' setup.py is unusable :)
<herve> raphink, then you know about debian/rules?
<raphink> sure herve
<raphink> herve: it's not my first package
<herve> dholbach, I bet mine isn't ;-)
<raphink> but I am very very far from mastering packaging ;)
<herve> raphink, then it's just a matter of call ./install.sh with the right prefix, no?
<Tonio_> raphink: you're gonna have the same mentor than me ??? ^_^
<raphink> herve: well the thing is that the install.sh script calls kdialog with dcop and I don't wna that in a package
<herve> Tonio_, you know Dinofly?
<raphink> Tonio_: herve is your mentor?
<herve> raphink, ho GUI installer?
<Tonio_> raphink: dholbach is
<Tonio_> herve: dinofly ? yes, very good friend of mine
<markuman> dholbach: from right, its mitsuhiko (armin - i think he will listen now *g*) one of the http://www.ubuntuusers.de admin. next to him SS2, daboo, elys, smurf. littlepaul, jrg and juliux, juliux has made the ubuntu banner with mpathy. the banner was build for the linux day in essen (ger) on 3./4.12.05.
<herve> Tonio_, I was in school with him :-)
<mitsuhiko> :-)
<markuman> *g*
<raphink> herve: well basically, the install.sh script asks for an install option with kdialog and then installs using basic bash commands
<Tonio_> herve: arf
<mitsuhiko> hi dholbach :)
<Tonio_> herve: how did you gess ?
<dholbach> mitsuhiko, markuman: well done guys... you rock
<raphink> herve: I could use the bash commands in this script though, but I don't know where to put them
<herve> Tonio_, the whois
<Tonio_> s/gess/guess
<Tonio_> herve: ah okay ;) logic ^^
<thesaltydog> hi all
<herve> raphink, then you have to write your installer from debian/rules...
<raphink> I don't know how herve ...
<herve> hi
<raphink> I wish I knwe
<raphink> herve: the first problem is that there is no Makefile and dpkg-buildpackage will give me an error because of this
<herve> what is the installer doing, just copying nO?
<raphink> yes herve
<herve> I don't see why dpkg-buildpackage would complain
<Tonio_> raphink: the easier way is to use cdbs
<raphink> well it says it can't build herve
<herve> unless you took a rules from another package assuming there is a Makefile to call :-)
<raphink> Tonio_: is that _really_ easier?
<Tonio_> and simply add cp and chmod commands in an "install\package::" section
<thesaltydog> Often I need to test build on a debian/unstable pbuilder environment, and then back to ubuntu. Is there a way to keep 2 separate settings for pbuilder?
<Tonio_> raphink: cdbs ? yes, much easier
<herve> raphink, it's just about copying in the temp directory, no?
<raphink> yes herve I guess
<Tonio_> the only problem with cdbs is that you have to learn the solution for each problem
<raphink> that's the only thing to be done
<Tonio_> "how to perform this"
<Tonio_> but once you know it..... really easier
<raphink> Tonio_: I think I'dlike to learn it the traditional way first
<herve> raphink, you could ask upstream to split up the installer utility from the GUI, so you and other maintainers can reuse the installer
<Tonio_> a cdbs rules file is generally between 256 and 512 bytes
<Tonio_> not more
<raphink> mhm
<herve> raphink, check also if this software is packaged in other distributions and how they do it
<Tonio_> I personnaly learned cdbs directly.... it hasn't been easy, but I don't regret it
<raphink> I don't think it's packaged herve
<raphink> I'll hav a look
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> there are packages for mandriva and sue
<raphink> suse
<raphink> :)
<raphink> would that help ?
<Tonio_> raphink: nope.....
<raphink> it doesn't work the same way I guess
<raphink> hmm
<bmonty_laptop> any MOTU: please look at Malone 4443
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<raphink> if I run alien on the rpm, do you think it can give me a hint?
<raphink> *barbarian way*
<Tonio_> raphink: nope
<raphink> k
<herve> raphink, yes, you could see how their build scripts and what files they copy
<raphink> :(
<Tonio_> because you will not have any information required by a valid source package
<raphink> how do I open an rpm ?
<Tonio_> and anyway you will miss the debian folder structure
<raphink> yes Tonio_ but i can see how they deal with the scripts
<sivang> dholbach: I see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FormalTestPlans is not updated with what we worked on during UBZ, is it on another page?
<herve> raphink, use midnight commander :-)
<dholbach> sivang: it's linked from it
<raphink> argh
<Tonio_> raphink: is your package a collection of python scripts, or bashscripts ?
<raphink> bash Tonio_
<Tonio_> raphink: there are lots of packages that are scripts colletction
<raphink> like what?
<Tonio_> debuild is a script
<Tonio_> it is installed by a package
<raphink> mhm
<Tonio_> so you may found the way to proceed looking at one of those sources packages
<raphink> I'll look at devscript
<herve> yes but the installer is probably less awkward :-)
<raphink> lets see
<Tonio_> raphink: look at the devscripts source package
<Tonio_> that might help
<raphink> taht's what I'm doing Tonio_
<Tonio_> sorry, didn't read before writing ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> that's the idea I had origially
<raphink> they use postinst and postrm
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> there is nothing special in debian/rules
<raphink> they seem to install all scripts with postinst and postrm
<raphink> so they don't use debian/temp either
<herve> strange...
<raphink> heh
<raphink> if they do it, then I should do it too ;)
<raphink> so just using what is in the install.sh
<ogra> nope
<raphink> ogra: what do you think ?
<ogra> the packaging system doesnt know anything about files you install via postinst
<raphink> yes ogra
<ogra> you could give your users a tgz with the same effect
<raphink> still that's the option that was chosen for devscripts
<raphink> sure ogra, the difference is that a tgz can't be found in the apt-get db, installed and upgraded
<ogra> might be, but if you want to have dpkg -S or apt-file working with it, you should install them from the package not from the config scripts
<raphink> surely this package won't be much more than a tgz since there's nothing to build anyway
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> I don't know how to do that ogra
<ogra> its not *that* hard :)
<raphink> when you know how to do I'm sure it's not hard ;)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/ i just uploaded this source, the debian/rules simply copy stuff into place... its all scripts and png's
<ogra> but the packaging system will know about every single file in there ...
<ogra> in case someone puts a script with the same name like yours in his package and it has the same path your stuff will simply get overwritten...
<raphink> yes I understand that
<raphink> so what shall I use
<raphink> what is the specificity of your debian/rules
<ogra> make it a real package
<raphink> or what do you use in addition to it
<raphink> ?
<ogra> there is none ...
<ogra> the files and dirs get listed in the student-control-panel.dirs and student-control-panel.install files
<raphink> ok
<ogra> dh_install in the rules file just move the files into place
<raphink> you basically list the files and for each file you tell where they have to go in the system, right?
<ogra> exactly ...
<raphink> ok
<ogra> and i removed all make related stuff from the rules file
<raphink> so if the scripts of the kim package are in bin
<raphink> I should have things like
<raphink> bin/*.sh /usr/share/wherevertheyhavetogo/
<raphink> in the kim.install
<ogra> yup
<raphink> ok
<raphink> see this is simple
<ogra> yup :)
<ogra> and way less evil ;)
<raphink> but I found _no_ mention of this in the debian maintainer's guide
<ogra> the only thing you need to know is that rules is a makefile ... it can do everything a makefile can ... even simple cp or mv commands ...
<ogra> then only make lintian/linda happy and you have basically a good package
<raphink> yes
<raphink> I'm learning
<raphink> ;)
<ogra> :)
<sivang> ogra: but you better use dh_install for copying/moving files no?
<ogra> sivang, yup
<McFergus> !ftp
<sivang> ogra: rather then doing it "manually" with cp, mv, or whatever..
<McFergus> wrong window... sorry
<ogra> always ude the debhelper scripts (or cdbs, as you like)
<ogra> *use
<sivang> ogra: feel free to ping me on that gnome-system-toosl change, I'm mostly busy during the day , but if I see someone pinging me on IRC, I tend to leave everything at work and attend to him :)
<ogra> but there is no policy in debian that forbids 500 cp commands in debian/rules ... even if its darn ugly it schouldn't violate any debian policy
<sivang> ah , I see.
<sivang> good to know
<ogra> sivang, i will, im currently more busy on low level ltsp stuff...
<sivang> ogra: sure, I just wanted you to feel free :)
<ogra> it will still take some days before i get up to speed with other things
<ogra> but we have sound in ltap :)
<ogra> *ltsp
<sivang> cool !
<ogra> yup... out of the box, no configuration needed .... :)
<sivang> amazing
<sivang> through the device on-tcpip-loopback ?
<ogra> now i just need to get the spec approved to be allowed to implement it officially *grin*
<ogra> nope
<sivang> ah...well, I suspect that wouldn't be too hard
<ogra> very simple esound forwarding
<sivang> ah, right! it's a damn network daemon!
<sivang> :)
<ogra> the intresting thing is that i get rather delays in the X output than choppy sound with it ...
<ogra> it had expected it the other way around
<sivang> well, sound is easier to deliver AFAICT
<sivang> less traffic
<sivang> then visual stuff
<bmonty_laptop> \sh: can we add an auto-email elmo feature to the sync request part of lpbugs?
<ogra> bmonty_laptop, better ask this to elmo first :)
<bmonty_laptop> ogra: I'm trying to be a little sarcastic, but it would be nice ;)
<ogra> i think he doesnt care if the requests come from a lp feature, but i doubt he likes to be the guinea peg while it gets developed ;)
<ogra> s/peg/pig/
<ogra> the idea isnt bad :)
<bmonty_laptop> I wonder if he has a special address for sync requests
<raphink> ogra: the install.sh script I have uses kim*.desktop $kdeinstdir/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/
<raphink> shall I keep the $kdeinstdir variable or replace it ?
<bmonty_laptop> maybe we could have it build the command line for whatever tool he uses to do syncs and then he could just cut and paste to a shell
<ogra> depends, is there such a variable in the system if kde is installed ? (gnome here)
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> how do I know that ?
<raphink> echo $kdeinstdir ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but i doubt it ...
<raphink> well there is no such a variable
<raphink> but the install script worked on my system though
<raphink> ...
<raphink> doh!
<raphink> the variable is set a few lines before ;)
<raphink> hehe sorry ;)
<ogra> dont worry
<ogra> its usually /usr
<raphink> kde-config --prefix
<raphink> that's how they get it
<raphink> is it worth it that I get it this way somewhere?
<raphink> or shall I just use /usr ?
<ogra> since the kde paths wont just randomly change in kubuntu i think its safe to assume it stays /usr for some time :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> then is there a way I can set the chmod in the .install ?
<raphink> since the install.sh script sets the chmod
<raphink> is there a way I can do it cleanly within the .install maybe ?
<ogra> dh_fixperms shoudl care for that
<raphink> ok
<raphink> and I guess mkdir should go to the .dirs :)
<ogra> yup
<raphink> simple :)
<ogra> yep :=
<ogra> )
<raphink> all cp to .install and all mkdir to .dirs :)
<ogra> exactly
<raphink> ok next issue is with this :
<raphink>  cd $kdeinstdir/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/
<raphink>                 mv imageconverter.desktop imageconverter.desktop~
<raphink>                 mv jpegorient.desktop jpegorient.desktop~
<raphink> I'm not sure this should be kept
<raphink> this turns some services down
<raphink> since kim services replace them
<raphink> :s
<ogra> they are most likely in another package... its evil to move files from other packages :)
<raphink> yes
<raphink> but then there's gonna be two converters in the menus in konqueror
<raphink> which is why kim removes them
<raphink> let's see what package they come with :)
<raphink> ok they come with konq-plugins
<raphink> no surprise
<raphink> is there a way I can have the same result cleanly ogra ?
<raphink> or should I not touch it at all?
<ogra> have a look at dpkg-divert's manpage :)
<raphink> hmm ok
<ogra> btw, that is something for postinst/postrm :)
<raphink> ic
<raphink> so in postinst I should ust dpkg-divert
<raphink> to rename imageconverter.desktop to imageconverter.desktop
<raphink> sorry with ~
<ogra> yup
<raphink> and in postrm it sould remove the diversion
<raphink> logically
<ogra> so the packaging system (and thus the konqueror package) know about it
<raphink> yes
<ogra> yup
<allee> raphink: FWIW: in case you don't hardcode the path use: kde-config --expandvars --install data   +  /konqueror/servicemenus (and report upstream ;)
<\sh> going to bed...
<allee> \sh: nite
<raphink> I'll hardcore the path I think
<allee> raphink: that's a pretty save choice
<raphink> ;)
<janimo> hey
<raphink> ok should do it now
<janimo> if a package upload gor REJECTED, subsequent uploads need special care to enter buildd?
<janimo> if I keep the same version
<allee> raphink: the french desktop file with accent problems: does it contain an Encoding=<whatever>  and is the french trans in this encoding?
<janimo> do buildds run about twice an hour?
<bmonty_laptop> janimo: I think you have to bump the version, at least that is what crimsun had to for a package we were working on
<janimo> ok thanks
<raphink> no idea allee
<janimo> but it made it to the changes-list
* allee downloading ...
<janimo> hmm I'll ask on devel
<allee> raphink: which desktop file?
<raphink> what are you talking about allee ?
<herve> night all
<allee> raphink: oh sorry your comment on kim on kde-apps.org (or is it solved?)
<raphink> I'm done packaging kim allee
<raphink> haven't tested it yet
<raphink> oh I see what you mean
<raphink> yes it's me who put a comment on the accent issue
<raphink> sorry I wasn't following you ;)
<allee> raphink: my fault
<raphink> it's ok
<raphink> hmm wait a min
<raphink> I'll just test the package
<raphink> then look at your option to solve this
<sivang> night all
<bmonty_laptop> bye sivang
<raphink> yeah :D
<raphink> now tell me about your suggestion allee
<raphink> :)
<bmonty_laptop> hi LaserJock
<allee> raphink: every desktop file can spezify it's encoding with a Encoding=<whatever> with whatever usually being UFT-8
<raphink> mhm
<LaserJock> bmonty_laptop: looks like you've been busy
<raphink> allee: there is no such entry in the .desktop files indeed
<bmonty_laptop> I've looked at a couple of packages :)
<allee> raphink: grep other service type .desktops for examples
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll have a look
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> allee: shall I report that to the upstream author?
<allee> raphink: yes and maybe s/Gig/Gif/ and in english there no space before
<allee> '1' afaik
<allee> s/'1'/'!'/
<raphink> ok
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> shall I correct it in my package and tell the upstream author at the same time
<raphink> or should he fix it before and then I package the patched version?
<raphink> :s
<allee> raphink: depends on you.  If it's cosmetics this IMHO okay to just report and wait.  If it a real bug, fix it (or ask upstream) and incorporate it into you pkgs
<raphink> well it's just cosmetics I thin
<raphink> think
<allee> raphink: upstream if always happy of course if you the gets patches ;)
<allee> yes
<raphink> so just report the bug and wait
<raphink> I mean telling him what has to be changed
<tseng> dholbach: beagle.
<raphink> ;)
<allee> raphink: he will be delighted ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> I'll do that as soon as I'm done updating my repo
<dholbach> tseng: hm, doesnt seem to be shipped then
<tseng> maybe not
<dholbach> tseng: no libbeagle love
<tseng> there are regressions from the debian version
<dholbach> tseng: i see
<tseng> i have the so's
<tseng> but no pc
<allee> raphink: all scripts use #!/bin/sh.  Maybe check if there's no bashism??
<dholbach> maybe it will be shipped in the new version
<raphink> there is allee I think
<tseng> maybe.
<allee> if [ ! -d /tmp/kim ] ; then
<allee>     mkdir $TMPDIR;
<raphink> it's matter of encoding as you said
<allee> raphink: is also no good idea.
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> well hmm I'm not sure I grasp all you would report and why
<raphink> would you report it yourself ?
<allee> 'k
<dholbach> tseng: how are you?
<tseng> i am ok, you?
<raphink> thanks a lot allee :)
<dholbach> tseng: a bit tired, but ok, thank you :)
<tseng> good
<raphink> btw allee the pb is not exactly about declaring the encoding, but the `plugins' scripts are not typed as utf-8
<dholbach> Tonio_: uploaded
<raphink> that's why it doesn't work
<allee> raphink: oh, oh, lots of hardcoded /tmp filename
<raphink> where?
<allee> grep /tmp bin/*
<raphink> how should it be coded?
<raphink> allee: how should it be coded instead?
<allee> raphink: e.g. using mktemp(1)
<raphink> ok
<Tonio_> dholbach: ? uploaded ?
<dholbach> Tonio_: pwmanager?
<allee> or you user private KDE dir in tmp
<Tonio_> dholbach: ah okay ;)
<allee> s/you/use/
<raphink> I'm not a coder allee so I don't know much about that yet ;)
<raphink> ic allee
<raphink> allee: the pb is that it might make conflicts with other apps, right?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-20
<Tonio_> dholbach: let's see what happens....
<allee> yes, other apps, other users/same apps and don't forget the bad guys and symlink attacks
<raphink> ic
<allee> raphink: nice is 'rm -rf /tmp/kimrm -rf /tmp/kim'   # assume a strange mind made /tmp/kim a link to your home dir
<raphink> lol
<allee> raphink: well, as is the tools will fails a security review miserably (when a novice like me is able to find the holes)
<raphink> well it's not a matter of packaging here
<raphink> it's rather a pb with the upstreaming dev
<crimsun> gah, good thing I hadn't synced cppunit yet
<allee> raphink: yes, but as a pkger you should do your best to not deliver a pkg that has knows security bugs
<raphink> ok allee
<raphink> if I am able to find them
<allee> raphink: yes
<allee> but as is kim is not ready IMHO to be distributed by any distribution
<allee> pity :(
<raphink> ok
<Kyral> why is gnome-volume-manager being removed in the latest batch of updates?
<crimsun> because you're chomping at the bit?
<Kyral> well, I don't use GNOME to begin with... :P
<Kyral> I think I should reinstall Ubuntu-Desktop...
<Kyral> or Xubuntu-Desktop
<Kyral> well something broke Ubuntu-Desktop
<raphink> allee: did you report the security issues ?
<allee> writing a comment right now for kde-apps
<allee> raphink: but I ponder if better write it in private ...  Any security guy listening?
<raphink> lol
<allee> raphink: no I'm serious!
<raphink> y?
<crimsun> malone has a facility for marking bugs private.
<allee> crimsun: kim is not uploaded yet
<crimsun> is it on REVU or something?
<allee> raphink: is it?
<raphink> not yet
<raphink> I've just finished it
<raphink> and as I'm waiting for my key to be added to the keyring
<raphink> I couldn't upload it yet
<Kyral> crimsun, consider me another tester for Xubuntu
<crimsun> Kyral: everyone's a prospective tester ;-)
<crimsun> btw, it really helps if you use your real names in your irc clients
<Kyral> okay, brb
<Kyral> better>
<crimsun> thanks.
<allee> raphink: what's our e-mail? I'll send a private msg for now and would like to add you to cc to help keep an eye on it
<raphink> allee: raphink[at] gmail[dot] com
<allee> thx
<bur[n] er> has anyone packaged the latest thunar snapshot?
<dholbach_> good night everybody
<crimsun> bur[n] er: it's on REVU
<crimsun> I'll get to it tonight
<allee> nite
<raphink> thanks for the email allee
<allee> np
<raphink> anyone working on ksquirrel so far?
<bur[n] er> right on crimsun, thanks!
<raphink> night
<Kyral> yahoo, new XChat
<Kyral> brb :D
<Kyral> How do I get usplash to display the xubuntu artwork instead of the ubuntu artwork...hmmm
<Kyral> hey slomo_
<Kyral> Quick question, if gnome-core gets removed, then effectively GNOME is gone?
<bmonty_laptop> Kyral: apt-cache rdepends gnome-core
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I was looking for a way to get ridda GNOME anyway :D
<Kyral> I meant does it remove it from GDM :P
<crimsun> Kyral: you need to install xubuntu-artwork-usplash, then rerun sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
<minghua> Kyral: If you install gnome-core by aptitude, then likely yes
<Kyral> crimsun, I did that after nuking the 5 other kernels in my /boot
* Kyral shrugs
<crimsun> note that splash is only active for the first entry.
<crimsun> but that's not really relevant here
<Kyral> was just looking for a way to purge the DE while keeping stuff like Epiphany and Evolution
<Kyral> btw the Xubuntu splash is nice
<zakame> heya
<polpak> hi
<\sh> moins
<crimsun> hum. Are the binaries of 'gnome-games' supposed to be setgid?
* crimsun waits for dholbach
<zakame> wow centericq's config.*'s are fairly outdated
<minghua> crimsun: if you mean "upstream's intention" by "supposed", then yes
<minghua> crimsun: it's for writing the game records in /var/lib (or somewhere)
<minghua> crimsun: upstream thinks it's ugly, too
<crimsun> minghua: ok, then it being broken on my system is probably related to my not having dist-upgraded yet
<crimsun> (libgksuui1.0-1 and all)
<crimsun> minghua: I was going to ask elmo to sync cppunit, but apparently there are additional allocator changes for libstdc++, so I'm waiting, since it's one of the packages affected
<Yagisan> motus out of curiosity how many of you are subscribed to debian's dsa list ?
* zakame raises hand
<Lathiat> crimsun: yeh they are setgid games right?
<Lathiat> crimsun: to write out high score files
<Lathiat> bah
<zakame> oops, wrogn chan
<Lathiat> i need to stop replyign to things before i read the rest of the window :)
<Lathiat> Yagisan: i am
<crimsun> Yagisan: I am
<Yagisan> how much effort is it to pinch a fix for sarge and apply it to breezy ?
<crimsun> "depends"
<minghua> crimsun: oh sure, of course should wait for libstdc++.  thanks for remembering this :-)
<Yagisan> as I just noticed another sec update for uim
* minghua reminds himself that he should subscribe dsa list
<crimsun> Yagisan: that has already been fixed in Ubuntu
<crimsun> Yagisan: bmonty sent the debdiff; pitti applied it
<Yagisan> crimsun: is that the same error I reported to malone ? I thought it was a new one
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/malone/3328 ?
<crimsun> the changelog from uim (1:0.4.7-1ubuntu1.1) breezy-security reports it as such
<crimsun> CVE-2005-3149 http://bugs.debian.org/331620
<crimsun> so yes.
<Yagisan> crimsun: yep that's it
<crimsun> a few of us already discussed it last week
<Yagisan> crimsun: I was mildly concerned I needed another update
* Yagisan uses uim
<minghua> Yagisan: it's not a bug that affects a lot of things anyway
<minghua> For official ubuntu, it only affects mlterm-im-uim users
<Yagisan> minghua: yes, but it is on one of my servers, so I thought I would double check
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah, sure.  it's never too safe when it comes to servers :-)
<Yagisan> minghua: Although uim is breaking a lot of other apps. perhaps I should bulk import the ubuntu japan scim repo
<Lathiat> yeh thats because its breaking apps using libstdc++5 right
<Lathiat> cus it links to stdc++6 and is preloaded
<minghua> Yagisan: what Lathiat said
<Lathiat> not sure if theres really any way around that
<minghua> Yagisan: use GTK_IM_IMMODULE=xim to work around it
<minghua> Lathiat: there is. :-)
<Yagisan> didn't help :(
<Yagisan> just a sec, I'll see if I can find my malone bug
<minghua> I've never used uim though, I only know uim also has GTK immodule, so this is just guessing
<Yagisan> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amule/+bug/3187
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3187: Amule fails to start after installing Japanese input support Fix req. for: amule (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3187
<\sh> leaving for office
<Yagisan> but I get that in other apps too. Is that because of libstdc++5 ?
<Yagisan> What's ubugtu ?
<crimsun> it's a bot that retrieves bugzilla and malone info
<crimsun> you've already seen it in action, so I don't need to trigger it again
<Yagisan> crimsun: Can I get it to do that without knowing my bug number ?
<minghua> Yagisan: Hmm, it may not be the same bug, as the backtrace doesn't seem to involve libstdc++
<Yagisan> minghua: breaks sun java too, but that's not too important
<crimsun> Ubugtu xastir
<minghua> Yagisan: but if the apps you are talking are acroread 7, firefox/mozilla from mozilla.org, then it's 99% the libstdc++ mismatch bug
<crimsun> Yagisan: I don't think so, but I don't know.
<minghua> I suppose Java mean's Sun's java, then add it to the above list
<Yagisan> minghua: nope, with exception of sun java, and my deng work - all my apps are in the ubuntu repos
<minghua> Strange.  I suppose nothing in breezy links to libstdc++5, right?
<Yagisan> minghua: some things do
<Yagisan> minghua: but I don't have libstdc++5 installed
<minghua> Yagisan: oh, okay, if you don't have libstdc++ 5 then forget about it
<Yagisan> minghua: "apt-cache rdepends libstdc++5" gives a rather long list
<minghua> Yagisan: out of curiousity, is synaptic in it?
* Yagisan pats himself on the back for triggering an obscure bug
<Yagisan> minghua: no, not hat I can see
<Yagisan> s/hat/that
<minghua> Hmm, so uim is not that robust in breezy either
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah, maybe you should try the ubuntu-ja packages then
<Yagisan> minghua: OK, I'll prepare for a recursive wget, and feed it all into my pbuilder. Then change to scim and see what happens
<Yagisan> minghua: I'm sure they will love me for it O:-)
<minghua> Yagisan: the ubuntu-ja people don't have uim?
<Yagisan> minghua: need to check the repo again
<Yagisan> minghua: nope - they seem to have gone with a scim-prime setup
<minghua> my Japanese is apparently not good enough to find the ubuntu-ja archive though google
* minghua goes to check mbox
<Yagisan> minghua: http://www.ubuntulinux.jp/download/
<Yagisan> minghua: my Japanese is pretty crap actually.
<minghua> Yagisan: yeah you are right, they don't have uim
<minghua> which surprises me a bit
<minghua> Yagisan: so what IM are you using?  Anthy?
<Yagisan> minghua: right now uim, I tried scim on breezy, but it didn't work
<Yagisan> minghua: uim-anthy
<minghua> Yagisan: okay, then use the scim-anthy in ubuntu-ja, you should feel at home
<Yagisan> minghua: yourself ?
<minghua> Yagisan: no I don't speak Japanese at all :-)  I use scim-pinyin
<Yagisan> minghua: honestly, as long as the IM is consistent in Gnome, KDE, and the console, I don't care what I use
<Yagisan> minghua: my goal is to set it up as easy as the Win2K IM
<Yagisan> minghua: which is what my users compare it too
<Yagisan> minghua: are you using breezys scim ?
<minghua> Yagisan: no, I still use hoary
<minghua> and a dapper chroot if that matters
<minghua> Yagisan: you are probably going to be disappointed when you find out that scim doesn't work in console
<minghua> IMO the IMs in linux still have a long way to go compared with Win2K IM
<Yagisan> minghua: hmm, it may be hard to do this then " cd projects//my_packages"
<minghua> Yagisan: do it in an X terminal :-)
<Yagisan> minghua: that probably reads something like sheep for you doesn't it ?
<minghua> in Chinese that's goat-something
<Yagisan> minghua: cool, you are the first Chinese speaker that has read that back as goat to me :)
<minghua> I can only recognize the kanjis, not the hiraganas
<Yagisan> minghua: It's Mr Goat :) or in romaji Yagisan
<minghua> so "Yagi" is goat, I see
<Yagisan> minghua: yep, I must have reminded my wife of one
<minghua> In chinese goat and sheep are quite similar, not much metapohric meanings
<Yagisan> minghua: that may explain why people say it is "mountain sheep"
<minghua> but I suppose it's a little bit different in English, although I'm not exactly how
<Yagisan> minghua: Well, apparently I act somewhat like one, and when unshaven look like one
<minghua> Yagisan: Ha.  So you didn't know "mountain sheep" means "goat"?
<Yagisan> minghua: maybe I'm a literal person, but mountain sheep look different to goats
<minghua> Yagisan: the character "" is literally "mountain", both in Chinese and Japanese (I believe)
<Yagisan> minghua: yes it is
<minghua> to be fair, though, "" means not only sheep in Chinese
<Yagisan> minghua: yes, but by itself, that is hitsuji - sheep
<Yagisan> minghua: or as I refer to them - lamb cutlets :-P
<minghua> it's just the *cough* stupid *cough* English has a word for each gender for animals :-P
<minghua> ah, you reminded me, add a new word for each type of meat, too
<Yagisan> minghua: hey, some languages use different words depending on if the speaker is male or female
<minghua> Yagisan: that I have no problem with, but English is not a language with gender after all
<Yagisan> minghua: apparently my Japanese sounds like a woman Japanese, I wonder why O:-)
<Yagisan> minghua: so would you like lamb or mutton, when you visit the sheep and goat farm. Avoid the rams, and pat the ewes :)
<minghua> Ouch!  Apparently my vocabulary isn't that great either
* minghua go look up mutton and ewe
<Yagisan> minghua: mutton is meat from an old sheep
<Yagisan> minghua: ewe is a female sheep
<crimsun> argh
<Yagisan> minghua: sorry - I tried to see how many different words I could find for essentially the same thing
<minghua> Yagisan: thanks.
<crimsun> more library name changes - ANOTHER cxx transition
<crimsun> (thankfully it's nowhere as invasive)
<crimsun> oh whew, this is the d-d-a mail :-)
<minghua> at least this time it will be synchronous with debian
<crimsun> yeah
* Yagisan is still waiting for the mirror of ubuntu-ja source repo
<minghua> I wonder how long will it take to have the new gcc build on all Debian arches
<Yagisan> back soon - going out shopping
<Victor> what is the difference between 'ubuntu maintainers' ,'ubuntu developer' and 'ubuntu members'?
<Victor> ???
<Burgundavia> Victor, ubuntu members are people who have been approved by the community council. To become a member, you must simply do something for Ubuntu or be active int eh community. You don't need to be a developer
<Victor> Is the leader of each team appointed by community council or self-appointed?
<Victor> If want to be a member,membership need to be appointed. maintainers need to be appointed,too?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> main and universe uploaders need to be approved by the Technical board
<Burgundavia> they must already be ubuntu memebers
<Victor> You mean other maintainer except main and universe uploaders need not to be approved?
<Burgundavia> those are the only maintainers
<Burgundavia> not that main also means you can upload to restricted and universe also means multiverse
<Burgundavia> s/not/note
<mr-russ> Victor: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU  will tell you about how to become a member.
<Victor> what does 's/not/note' mean?
<Burgundavia> I made a typing mistake
<Victor> :)
<Burgundavia> it means replace "not" with "note"
<Burgundavia> the context is s(earch for)/(a string)/(and replace it with this string)
<mr-russ> vi syntax.
<Victor> I see.thanks
<Nafallo> I would rather call it regex :-)
<Yagisan> It's sed :)
<zakame> s#regex#regular expression#  # this is a comment
<Victor> Who is the chairman to Community Council now?sabdfl?
<Burgundavia> yes
* mr-russ goes hunting for a place to whine about the https problems.
<Victor> How many kinds of role are there in our community?maintainer,developer,and ......
<crimsun> "you can be anything you want to be"
<zakame> crimsun: indeed
<Victor> Yes.What I want to know is roles defined clearly by community.For example,maintainer,developer and so on.And the two roles need to be appointed.
<Victor> that is to say,both developer  and maintainer ,the two role,need to be appointed by Technical board?
<zakame> yep
<janimo> anybody want to revu thunar? thanks
<Victor> in the webpage http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/techboard,I find:  Appointments to the board are made by Mark Shuttleworth subject to confirmation by a vote amongst the maintainers.  developers couldn't vote?
<Lathiat> i beleive its all members
<Lathiat> but not sure
<Nafallo> nope. it's everyone in the launchpad group ubuntu-dev
<Nafallo> for cc it's ubuntu-members
<Nafallo> is there a difference between maintainer and developer in this case?
<schweeb> Victor: there's a pretty clear list on the wiki
<Victor> schweeb:Would you please tell me the detailed link?
<Victor> Nafallo:I want to know,too. :)
<Nafallo> what's the subject? who is in each team?
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-[members,dev] 
<schweeb> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/ read all the subpages... it usually tells you who can vote for what, etc...
<schweeb> and TB approval includes all members, afaik
<Nafallo> maintainer = packager, developer = codemonkey. in that case there is no diffrence in Ubuntu AFAIK.
<schweeb> the term "developer" may be more aimed at maintainers for main, those who affect main
<Nafallo> schweeb: no, -dev. CC includes all members.
<schweeb> ahh
<Nafallo> that's core developers
<Nafallo> not developers :-)
<Nafallo> launchpad makes this distinction.
<Lathiat> really should just be "member" shouldnt it?
<Lathiat> because ubuntu members are generallyu such people
<Lathiat> that contribute
<Nafallo> what should just be "member"?
<slomo_> hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning slomo :-)
<slomo_> Nafallo: did you compile 2.6.15 by hand already? :P
<Nafallo> slomo: naah, I'm lazy.
<Nafallo> thought you knew that? ;-)
<slomo_> sure
<slomo_> btw, do you want something new to package?
<slomo_> against your lazyness :P
<Nafallo> not now. I got load on the system ;-).
<polpak> Nafallo, is the nvidia-cg-toolkit already in Dapper universe?
<Nafallo> after those DVD-Rs are about I may :-)
<Victor>  in the webpage http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/council,it wrote:The Chairman of the Community Council is yet to be determined.Isn't sabdfl our chairman?
<Nafallo> W: Unable to locate package nvidia-cg-toolkit
<Nafallo> E: No packages found
<polpak> Hrm.. We talked yesterday and you said you built ogre-1.0.5, but I'm pretty sure the cg toolkit is a dependancy
<Nafallo> I'm pretty sure it is not :-)
<polpak> What options did you use to configure the build for ogre?
<crimsun> janimo: getting there eventually, just need to finish office stuff
<slomo_> bll
<slomo_> bbl
<Nafallo> same as debian
<Nafallo> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/source/ogre
<polpak> I can't see on that page what options are used.
<Nafallo> nope, but you download the .diff.gz
<Nafallo> (diff, our changes against the tarball)
<janimo> crimsun, ok thanks
<janimo> just maybe others want to contrib as we need 2 votes
<polpak> the tarball is the original source for ogre?
<Nafallo> yes
<polpak> k
<polpak> Bleh, I stand corrected
<polpak> Now to hope and pray it gets backported soon =)
<lucas> hi
<lucas> ajmitch_: you around ?
<lucas> \sh: hi
<lucas> I saw you started working on some tools for motu
<sivang> \sh and siretart and bmonty_laptop were working on it yesterday, I think
<lucas> I think we should work on something bigger, including other scripts too
<lucas> ajmitch_ said he already had some of those scripts himself, and he would release them
<\sh> lucas: when he's back home he will do it
<siretart> hi folks
<siretart> hi lucas
<\sh> moins siretart
<siretart> lucas: have you already seen \sh and my motu-tools bzr repository?
<siretart> huhu \sh!
<lucas> yes, saw that
<slomo_> hi siretart, \sh and everybody else ;)
<lucas> but I think other scripts are needed too
<siretart> lucas: of course, just write them ;)
<lucas> yes, I already did for some of them
<lucas> but the problem is : maybe we did some synchronization ;)
<\sh> lucas: where  are they so we can have a look?
<lucas> not public yet
<lucas> but I'll work on that today
<dholbach> hellas
<slomo_> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey slomo
<siretart> salute daniel!
<dholbach> hi siretart
<lucas> \sh: what did you use to write the ChangeLog in motu-tools ?
<lucas> just plain text editor ?
<\sh> lucas: emacs
<lucas> \sh: we could maintain this as a native debian package and use debian/changelog
<\sh> lucas: no
<lucas> ?
<\sh> upstream and debian/dir will be different things...
<lucas> they don't need to
<lucas> why should they ?
<\sh> lucas: they will
<\sh> lucas: because we will provide some other tools for motus and mains which are not debian related
<lucas> erm
<lucas> for example ?
<\sh> lucas: some tools are launchpad related, others are using only dpkg or other tools, or smart which is also not debian related
<lucas> well
<\sh> lucas: lpbugs.py has nothing to do with debian or ubuntu...it can be used for everything which is in launchpad
<lucas> then maybe "motu-tools" is not a good name ;)
<\sh> lucas: well...think about dapper +1
<lucas> ?
<lucas> I haven't read the whole thread about dapper+1 RM
<\sh> lucas: when there is smart coming...smart is the ultimative tool for AAAALLLL package based distros...even rpm based ones
<\sh> ,)
<\sh> moment...
<\sh> real work
<lucas> ah
<lucas> haven't heard of it
<juliux> (herzi) dholbach: ping
<dholbach> juliux/herzi: pong
<juliux> (herzi) dholbach: libgoffice-1-dev needs to depend on libgnomeoffice2.2-dev
<juliux> (herzi) dholbach: libgoffice-1-dev needs to depend on libgnomeprint2.2-dev
<dholbach> right
<juliux> can you fix it please?
<dholbach> don't worry, i'll look into it later
<\sh> grmf
<\sh> I had to fight now with the county administration of northrhine westfalia..because of my blogweb.de
<Seveas> \sh, why?
<Treenaks> Seveas: Police State Germany?
<sivang> \sh: why so? what did they want from you?
<\sh> siretart: because my imprint wasn't correct, but this was only one thing to get hold of another guy, which has a blog about security and privacy worldwide..and someone called those guys anonymously to denunciate me and my friend
<\sh> oh sivang i mean
<\sh> actually I asked those guys, if we have again the 3rd reich
<zyga_mini> hello folks
<StrikeForce> can someone tell me where the gpl shortened version for the copyright file is located?
<Treenaks> in the large version of the GPL :)
<Treenaks> oh wait
<StrikeForce> I remember seeing a section of whats needed to be added because the license is included with ubuntu
<StrikeForce> like not the whole version but just some paragraphs
<dholbach> /usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/licenses/gpl
<StrikeForce> thanks :)
<StrikeForce> that strace script thats in the debian maintainers guide those deps are build deps only right?
<dholbach> StrikeForce: hm?
<StrikeForce> dholbach: do you know the one I'm talking about?
<dholbach> no, i'm absolutely not sure, what you're talking about :)
<StrikeForce> dholbach, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-copyright
<dholbach> sorry :)
<StrikeForce> the 2nd bunch of code is the strace script it 'finds' deps
<StrikeForce> however some of those deps from what I can see are in the base ubuntu and kubuntu packages
<lucas> \sh and others: I've added my scripts to motu-tools
<lucas> see http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/
<lucas> (you can bzr branch/merge too)
<lucas> example output for ruby packages here :
<lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/du-versions-ruby.html
<\sh> uh
<\sh> why ruby...why not python :)
<slomo_> lucas: how does your script get the packages to look at? i.e. in this case the ruby ones? i want such thing for the mono stuff :P
<lucas> because I'm in MOTURuby ;)
<lucas> see the first url
<lucas> pkglist_from_rdepends.bash
<slomo_> lucas: thanks :) good work
<lucas> sladen: README.lucas details the steps to get to the HTML output
<slomo_> lucas: i'm not sladen :P
<lucas> sorry
<slomo_> np :)
<slomo_> that happens to everybody ;)
<slomo_> lucas: i'll test it with mono stuff this evening and report any problems to you ;)
<lucas> there's a problem with dpkg --compareversions
<slomo_> hm?
<lucas> file:///home/nussbaum/motu-tools/du-versions-ruby.html
<lucas> see alexandria in the output ?
<slomo_> mom
<lucas> I'll try to fix this now
<slomo_> oh
<slomo_> btw, please add a link to the debian qa page
<slomo_> packages.qa.debian.org
<lucas> # TODO/Bugs
<lucas> # - improve rendering
<lucas> # - add links to all relevant sources of info
<slomo_> makes work much easier :)
<lucas> ;)
<slomo_> lol
<slomo_> ok =)
<slomo_> siretart: oh no... marillat made the mplayer versioning wrong :( 1.0-pre7cvsxxxxxxxx is treated greater than 1.0 by dpkg....
<slomo_> siretart: bbl
<StrikeForce> dholbach, did you have a look at that strace?
<dholbach> StrikeForce: looks interesting
<dholbach> StrikeForce: i usually just have a look at configure.{ac,in}
<dholbach> StrikeForce: and build it in pbuilder, so i can make sure, that it builds in a clean environment
<StrikeForce> my concern is running deps?
<StrikeForce> although I don't think there are any
<StrikeForce> since I can find 0 documentation on it
<dholbach> running deps?
<StrikeForce> depends
<dholbach> you mean dependencies instead of build-dependencies
<dholbach> ah right
<StrikeForce> yep
<StrikeForce> sorry
<dholbach> well usually, you just "expand" them
<StrikeForce> yep ok
<dholbach> {shlibs:Depends} gives you those
<StrikeForce> yep
<StrikeForce> I ahve that already :)
<dholbach> (in a case, where you compile a C or C++ package)
<StrikeForce> but it listed like gcc4
<dholbach> i shouldnt think so
<StrikeForce> but yeah I'll try and cut it short
<dholbach> it explicitly listed gcc4 afterwards?
<dholbach> as a dependency?
<StrikeForce> not for depends
<StrikeForce> Its ok I'm confusing the situation
<dholbach> build-essential should give you a c compiler, so you wouldnt need it as a build-dep
<StrikeForce> yep
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> normally you just need {shlibs:Depends}, {python:Depends} or {perl:Depends}
<StrikeForce> how would I find using dpkg what is listed as deps of build-deps
<dholbach> somtimes {misc:Depends}
<StrikeForce> e.g. build-essentials deps
<StrikeForce> so I /might/ not need to add to many deps
<dholbach> apt-cache show build-essential | grpe Depends?
<dholbach> grep
<dholbach> sorry
<StrikeForce> yep no worries thanks
<StrikeForce> :)
<StrikeForce> should have it uploaded later
<StrikeForce> btw how long usually does it take to get a package checked out?
<Nafallo> what's up with unrar-nonfree?
<lucas> slomo: any other urls to include on the report page ?
<lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/du-versions-ruby.html
<lucas> I added some links and changed the color so it's easier to read
<zakame> Nafallo: many thanks :)
<Nafallo> zakame: np :-)
<StrikeForce> Do you think it would be ok to add an override for this error W: cue2toc: description-synopsis-might-not-be-phrased-properly
<zakame> what's the description synopsis?
<StrikeForce> zakame, A program that will convert CUE files to cdrdao's TOC format.
<zakame> StrikeForce: ah :) just remove the `A program that will' part and it will fit just fine :)
<StrikeForce> kk :)
<StrikeForce> zakame, unfortunately the error is still there from lintian
<StrikeForce> zakame, Description: convert CUE files to cdrdao's TOC format
<zakame> StrikeForce: have you rebuilt?
<StrikeForce> nm
<StrikeForce> yeah
<StrikeForce> but I had a '.' at the end
<StrikeForce> took that away and it works now
<zakame> ah, that's another one
<StrikeForce> all fine now
<zakame> wtg :)
<StrikeForce> and uploaded now package 3 done :)
<StrikeForce> now all I have to do is coerce someone into checking em :)
<zakame> to revu?
* zakame is reminded to rebuild libmemcache
<StrikeForce> yep
<zakame> hi ogra
<StrikeForce> zakame, I'm trying to compile a program and it can't find gtk2?
<zakame> StrikeForce: do you have libgtk2.0-dev installed?
<StrikeForce> doh not the dev package :(
<StrikeForce> its ok I'll install now
<zakame> no prob :)
<StrikeForce> thanks for the help :)
<zakame> now, my turn to pose a q: if I see a `package-name-doesnt-match-sonames' error for a package which is not a lib pkg, should I fix this?
<Kyral> Are you trying to compile FlowDesigner by any chance?
<zakame> nope, this is for gpsd
<Kyral> lol okay
<Kyral> I get the same error with FlowDesigner
<zakame> let me look at the diff
<zakame> Kyral: is this a NEW package?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> in REVU
<zakame> ok
<sistpoty> hi folks
<zakame> heya sistpoty :)
<Kyral> whee minor breakage :D
<zakame> just uploaded libmemcache to revu, can any motu please check it? :)
<zakame> siretart: ping, can you re-add my updated key to the revu keyring? :)
<siretart> zakame: which keyid?
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<siretart> sistpoty: if you look in my public html, I have created a MergeWebTool branch, there is a oneline to be merged ;)
<Kyral> hplip-base is broken. Depending on 0.9.5-2ubuntu2 of hplip-data, hplip-data is at 0.9.6-1ubuntu1
<sistpoty> siretart: will check
<zakame> siretart: 0xFA53851D .  I added a new uid for my @ubuntu.com address, and I want to use that now for the revu login
<siretart> zakame: then I don't need to do anything
<siretart> zakame: just upload something with that emailadress in the Changed-By field (email in debian/changelog)
<sistpoty> siretart: bzr merge <pathtoyourrepo>? or bzr pull <pathtoyourrepo>?
<siretart> sistpoty: merge
<sistpoty> siretart: k, thx
<siretart> works also over http, btw
<zakame> siretart: just did, but when I try to login with it, fails... when trying to recover, I could not get the gpg encrypted output
<siretart> hm
<siretart> zakame: okay, I just updated your key, retry please
<zakame> siretart: there, got the pgp message, thanks :)
<siretart> okay :)
<siretart> .oO( one more reason to work more on revu2, ... I'm still working on the infrastructure... )
<zakame> hehe :) salamat :D
<sistpoty> siretart: merged your change and also pulled to MoM ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: :)
<siretart> sistpoty: have you/we solved the problem with having to reload apache on file changes?
<sistpoty> siretart: no, unfortunately I haven't :( (i just restarted apache2)
<siretart> okay
<zakame> hmm where can I read more on dpatch? tseng's site doesn't seem to be up
<siretart> zakame: look at packages already using dpatch
<zakame> siretart: ok :)
<lucas> question about MOTU management : when a package is once uploaded with an ubuntu-specific version number ("ubuntu1" appended to the version string), a changelog entry is added.
<lucas> then, when all the ubuntu-specific changes are merged into debian, we could use the debian package directly in ubuntu
<zakame> of course
<lucas> but since we have to keep that changelog entry, we still need to have that ubuntu-specific version number
<lucas> right ?
<lucas> or the "ubuntu1" part can be dropped during the upload after we resynchronize with debian ?
<lucas> (but we loose the changelog entry then)
<sistpoty> lucas: if we can use the debian version, we take it (and thus loose the ubuntu-changelog-entry). Otherwise we'd need to merge these packages next time again
<siretart> lucas: this means: if the debian maintainer chooses not to take our ubuntu changelog entrys, we accept that
<lucas> ok
<siretart> lucas: is your motu-tools repository/package/whatever publicy viewable?
<lucas> siretart: yes, I sent a mail to ubuntu-devel about it
<lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/
<lucas> what about this bug then :
<lucas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alexandria/+bug/4052
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4052: alexandria: merge new debian version Fix req. for: alexandria (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4052
<lucas> \sh said it was ok to use the debian package directly
<lucas> but in the archive, there's an ubuntu-specific version
<siretart> lucas: is http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/ an bzr archive?
<lucas> yes
<lucas> you can bzr branch it
<siretart> strange. then i have a local config problem
<siretart> bzr: ERROR: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
<siretart> ha
<siretart> :)
<lucas> should be fixed now
<StrikeForce> siretart, for some reason I can't find cue2toc in REVU even though I uploaded it?
<siretart> lucas: works now, thanks
<siretart> StrikeForce: checking
<StrikeForce> thanks :)
<siretart> StrikeForce: because you did an binary upload, which is useless for revu
<zakame> StrikeForce: build your package via dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<siretart> StrikeForce: please do sourceful uploads only (and always with full source, i.e. with orig.tar.gz)
<StrikeForce> siretart, hmmm I'm sure I did that the right way :(
<StrikeForce> ok I'll re-do my apologies
<zakame> siretart: I notice some of the uploads also contain both source and binary uploads...
<siretart> zakame: I changed process_uploads.py to ignore non sourceful changes files
<zakame> siretart: cool :)
<siretart> I need to work on something to send ACCEPTED/REJECTED emails
<StrikeForce> so once thats done I just dput the changes file?
<StrikeForce> because you'll build it up on the server?
<siretart> StrikeForce: the *_source.changes file, yes
<siretart> NOT the *_i386.changes file.
<StrikeForce> siretart, ok I'll do that now if I've stuffed up give us a yell :)
<StrikeForce> siretart, did you want me to re-upload my previous packages that haven't been approved in that format?
<siretart> StrikeForce: yes, I deleted your old upload, since it did not include full source
<StrikeForce> siretart, ok but I'm referring to rufus and also browser-bookmark-menu as well though
<siretart> didn't check that yet, mom
<siretart> StrikeForce: they include fill source as well as binaries. thats not that bad. no need to reupload.
<StrikeForce> siretart, ok thanks I'll remember that for the future thanks for the heads up :)
<siretart> StrikeForce: cheers! :)
<StrikeForce> I signed the code of conduct through launchpad however it says the key is not registered with launchpad click this link yet the link is dead?
<zakame> slomo: ping, can you please check Malone #4089, I remember you told me that gpsd can't be synced
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<zakame> wb ajmitch
<StrikeForce> hello ajmitch :)
<lfittl> Any motu here who has time to review something on revu? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=931)
<\sh> siretart: grmpf
<\sh> siretart: u uploaded alexandria with ubuntu dude....
<siretart> \sh: sorry?
<\sh> siretart: debian dropped everything :)
<\sh> doesn't matter
<\sh> FRESH HOT BEATYFUL !!! 300 i386 Breezy CDs just hit ISH
<\sh> 50 PPC and 50 AMD
<\sh> as well
<\sh> s/BEATYFUL/BEAUTYFUL/
<Treenaks> 300ish ;)
<\sh> hehe...I just spread Ubuntu Breezy to all the people here...
<\sh> even management wants to have breezy on their laptop (at least on of our managers)
<Gazer> slomo, Hi, yerteday I fix my package (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=925), tell me if you detect some other error.
<Treenaks> \sh: cool!
<lfittl> siretart: Please build libloki (#931) in revu, thanks
<hunger_> How do I package python stuff?
<hunger_> Do I need a python-sth deb that depends on a python2.4-sth deb with the code?
<hunger_> Or can I get away with one python-sth deb with the code?
<\sh> hunger: the first arrangement...a default package with deps on python2.4
<\sh> hunger: the first arrangement...a default package with deps on python2.4-smt
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> sth
<\sh> whatever
<hunger_> \sh: Thanks.
<hunger_> \sh: Do I need to do "Provides" magic?
<zakame> hmmm, is pbbuttonsd-dev missing?
* hunger_ heads opf adding one more deb to his growing list of xen debs:-)
<hunger_> \sh: How do I handle python-sthdepending on python-sth2?
<hunger_> \sh: python-sth depends on python2.4-sth and python-sth2 and python-sth2 depending on python2.4-sth2?
<hunger_> Does the python2.4-sth dep need to depend on python2.4-sth2?
<\sh> hunger_: aeh
<\sh> hunger_: is python2.4-sth2 replacing/conflicting python2.4-sth?
<hunger_> \sh: No.
<\sh> or other way to ask...what is the difference between sth and sth2?
<hunger_> One is the lowlevel C bindingish stuff and the other the python magic build around it.
<hunger_> \sh: I had to split them apart to stop lintian complaining:-(
<\sh> hunger_: hum?
<hunger_> \sh: lintian didn't like having binaries in a python archive or so I understood the message it gave.
<\sh> hunger_: binaries?
<hunger_> \sh: Some wrapper C-code to turn C libs into proper python citizens.
<hunger_> \sh: Needs python-dev and the C lib dev stuff to build and exports some C functions from those libs to python apps.
* hunger_ does not speak python, so he is not sure about what that stuff actually does.
<\sh> hunger_: so it's not like python-apt e.g. where the .so is build and this is the interface to python?
<\sh> hunger_: which software are u talking about? lets have a look
<hunger_> \sh: There is that part, but there is a whole layer of python functionality build atop of.
<hunger_> \sh: Xen.
<hunger_> \sh: Check revu... the version there is sopmewhat outdated, but has python-xen and python-xen-lowlevel.
<siretart> lfittl: please ask someone else, I'm currently at work and cannot upload
<hunger_> \sh: ... which I now need to rename to python2.4-* with some python-* added.
<hunger_> Hi siretart.
<siretart> huhu hunger_
<hunger_> siretart: Packaging would be soooo easy without having to follow that damn policy! ;-)
<raphink> and the system would be so trashy, too ;)
<dholbach> hunger_: autodeb :)
<\sh> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=909
<\sh> ?
<hunger_> \sh: Sounds about right...
<hunger_> \sh: Yes, that's it!
<hunger_> \sh: I am wondering about the python-xen and python-xen-lowlevel debs right now.
<ogra> dholbach, switching the universe o autodeb ? :)
<siretart> hunger_: I know ;)
<dholbach> ogra: yeah, i start uploading in some minutes
<siretart> hunger_: but it is way easier to maintain conforming packages. and thats what we are about: maintenance and support for packages
<ogra> cool
<\sh> hunger_: if u build http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/xen-0511131225/xen-3.0pre20051113/tools/python/ manually via setup.py...the setup.py should create an .so interface file...which is actually the python class
<hunger_> dholbach: If upstream had a decent build system things would be somewhat easier.
<siretart> what is autodeb?
<dholbach> siretart: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Autodeb
<ogra> siretart, the suck ...
<\sh> hunger_: and this .so file u put into /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ directly
<dholbach> hunger_: send upstream a patch :)
<ogra> (sorry for my french)
<siretart> fear
<ogra> heh
<hunger_> dholbach: I already send 5 of them upsteam just to fix "make clean"
<\sh> hunger_: check apt-get source python-apt
<siretart> omg
<siretart> this is designed to break, is it?
<hunger_> dholbach: I even volunteered to rewrite the complete buildsystem a while back... but they are not interessted.
<\sh> if u have to fix make clean from upstream....DON'T USE IT...they actually don't know what they're doing ;)
<hunger_> dholbach: Next step: Find out why "make distclean" creates files (which forces me to run make clean after make distclean to get rid of them again!)
<dholbach> at least you seem to have fun :)
<\sh> "make clean\n -> make: running rm -Rvf /
<\sh> *oops"
<siretart> and incredible pain patching broken upstream build systems :)
* siretart is just having a lab machine autoinstalled with breezy :)
<hunger_> \sh: Building the stuff is not the problem... How do I have to do the dependencies?
<\sh> hunger_: u should have only one package at all....with the meta package python-xen which depends on python2.4-xen
<\sh> u will have two...
<\sh> hunger_: setup.py normally deals as well with C interfaces for python classes
<hunger_> \sh: lintian didn't like me throwing both of them into one deb.
<\sh> and builds them properly...that's why I asked if u ever builded python-xen manually
<\sh> hunger_: check python-apt
<hunger_> \sh: I will once I get proper net access:-(
<\sh> hunger_: are u using dh_python?
<hunger_> \sh: Yes.
<\sh> hunger_: but not in binary-indep
<hunger_> \sh: There is no pyhon stuff build in indep.
<\sh> oh sorry..
<hunger_> \sh: I removed python*-xen-lowlevel now. Let's see what lintian has to say about this change.
<slomo> lucas: MoM page if existing maybe
<hunger_> That makes all the python code arch dependent of course.
<\sh> hunger_: thats why u should use indep :)
<\sh> and dep
<lucas> slomo: does the fact that it exists (or not) add a useful information ?
<hunger_> \sh: I can't since the .so files aren't.
<lucas> it isn't easy to check that MoM pages exist
<slomo> lucas: hmm, don't show if it exists or not... but give a link to it if it exists ;) check for a 404 ;)
<\sh> hunger_: believe me :)
<\sh> hunger_: check python-apt...they are doing it just like this...read the rules file :)
<hunger_> \sh: I will as soon as I get a net connection again.
<hunger_> \sh: I'll shut up now till I did:-)
<lucas> slomo: mmh
<\sh> hunger_: so before u try and break something...check first :)
<lucas> when there are lots of pkgs, it won't be fast
<slomo> lucas: hmm, ok, then don't do it :)
<hunger_> \sh: It is only my local stuff that I break. It is not as if I had users;-)
<\sh> lucas: what do u want to do?
<\sh> hunger_: ok...:)
<hunger_> OK, have to run. I might be back later!
<lucas> \sh: see my mail on ubuntu-devel about motu-tools pkg
<lucas> slomo: I'll add it to my todo list
<slomo> ok, thanks... can you give me the url again? i get a mono list working then :)
<\sh> lucas: i answered
<lucas> slomo:  http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motu-tools/
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> going home
<\sh> cu later
<slomo> lucas: thanks
<slomo> lucas: small cosmetical suggestion... add somewhere that apt-rdepends is needed :)
<lucas> well that's why I was talking about a package ;)
<lucas> ./debianubuntuversions.bash |./filterlist.bash <(./pkglist_from_rdepends.bash libruby1.8 |./binarytosource.bash) |./debianubuntuversions-list2html.rb > duv-ruby.html
<lucas> slomo: use this and remplace libruby1.8 with what you need
<slomo> lucas: already done... well, i'm waiting for the download to finish but otherwise it's fine ;)
<lucas> ok
<slomo> Now, generating mixed list...
<slomo> uniq: Ungltige Option -- W
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> Ungltige Option == invalid option
<lucas> mmh
<lucas> $ uniq --version
<lucas> uniq (coreutils) 5.2.1
<lucas> you aren't running ubuntu are you ? :-)
<slomo> uniq (GNU coreutils) 5.93
<slomo> that's dapper ;)
<lucas>        -W, --check-fields=N
<lucas>               compare no more than N fields in lines
<slomo> what is -W doing?
<slomo> oh
<slomo> it's -w now
<lucas> no, that's --check-chars
<slomo> oh no
<slomo> there is no -W anymore :P
<lucas> no --check-fields ??
<slomo> no
<lucas> that's what I dislike in shell scripts
<ogra> slomo, 2.93 is ancient ...
<ogra> err 5.93
<lucas> you always end in a wall
<slomo> ogra?
<ogra> dpkg --compare-versions 5.93 lt 5.2.1 || echo true
<lucas> ok, I'll rewrite it with awk
<ogra> slomo, 5.2.1 is the current version ...
<slomo> ogra: err no... definitly not... look at the coreutils changelog
<slomo> ogra: 5.2.1 is from jul, 5.93 from november
<ogra> coreutils (5.2.1-2.1ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<lucas> What you are seeing with the -W option in Debian is a distribution
<lucas> specific patch to the code to provide that option and associated
<lucas> functionality.  It is not in the upstream GNU coreutils.
<ogra>  -- Charles Majola <charles@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:50:31 +0000
<lucas> so ubuntu packaged 5.93 but dropped the patch
<slomo> ogra: hum...
<slomo> ogra: coreutils (5.93-2) unstable; urgency=low
<slomo> ogra:  -- Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>  Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:28:53 -0500
<slomo> that's mine
<ogra> unstable
<ogra> *giggle*
<slomo> i only have dapper sources, no debian ones...
<ogra> slomo, drop the debian sources then ;)
<slomo> we have unstable also in packages synced from unstable
<ogra> true
<slomo> Accepted coreutils 5.93-2 (source)
<slomo> Date: 	Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:35:03 +0000 (GMT)  (14:35 CET)
<slomo> that's on dapper-changes
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> and charles merged the other packge yesterday it seems
<slomo> hehe
<ogra> communication breakdown ?
<lucas>    * Remove some ancient debian-specific patches
<lucas>      - install no longer calls strip with special options
<lucas>      - no more --reversible option to cat
<lucas>      - no more --first-eof option to paste
<lucas>      - no more field seperator option to uniq
<lucas> in  coreutils (5.93-1) unstable; urgency=low
<lucas> (upload to debian)
<lucas> so I have to live with it
<LaserJock> lucas: I love your new motu-tools scripts
<LaserJock> I have been working on something like this for the MOTUScience team
<lucas> LaserJock: thanks :-)
<lucas> don't hesitate to send patches
<LaserJock> I like the html output, that is what I have been struggling with, how to put the output in a good form
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<slomo> ogra: "dpkg --compare-versions 5.93 lt 5.2.1 || echo true" <--- are you sure this is correct? shouldn't it be gt or &&?
<lucas> awk 'BEGIN { s = "" } { if ($1 != s) { print $0 ; s = $1} }'
<lucas> uniq in awk
<lucas> with -W 1
<lucas> :-)
<ogra> i will echo true if the operator is right
<lucas> nearly readable
<minghua> hi, anybody know why grace and grace6 are still labelled unassigned on revu's MoM page?
<ogra> slomo, but i might be wrong ...
<LaserJock> minghua: did you change their status to fixed?
<minghua> I picked them up and filed malone bug according to the instructions
<slomo> ogra: it will echo true if everything before failed afaik... that's what || is for
<minghua> LaserJock: no, I left them as new
<ogra> slomo, err, yes && would be more appropriate
<LaserJock> minghua: nevermind, I was thinking you were asking about it not being in the "Done" list
<minghua> but I did assign them to MOTU merge team
<slomo> lucas: can you tell me when you've added it to your bzr branch?
<lucas> slomo: just checking that it works
<minghua> LaserJock: okay :-)  I'll wait for more informed people to answer then
<LaserJock> minghua: that's not hard to find ;-)
<slomo> Nafallo_away: kernel built at least on ppc :) we can start breaking our machines now ;)
<lucas> slomo: you can bzr merge now
<slomo> lucas: done :)
<slomo> lucas: i need to remember you... you can do awk magic :)
<lucas> ;)
<slomo> hmm, my dapper pbuilder is broken... can someone verify this?
<ogra> slomo, was this a silent offer to everyone here to get ssh access to your box for verification purpose ? :)
<slomo> ogra: lol no... but does someone else have this problem? :P it can't find /etc/shadow for some reason
<ogra> hmm, i didnt update mine for 2 days ....
<dholbach> slomo: same here
<ogra> heh, so i'll keep away from updating :)
<slomo> hehe... but i need the new openssl and libextractor :(
<jamessan|work> slomo: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=338976
<slomo> jamessan|work: thanks, i'll try it
<slomo> lucas: filterlist fails... it lists gtk-engines-mono but shouldn't list it
<lucas> ah
<slomo> every other result is ok
<lucas> can you put your input file and your filter list swhere ?
<jamessan|work> ogra: if you already have a basetgz built, it should be fine.  I've only seen the problem when creating new ones
<slomo> lucas: sure... but i expect it to be a problem with grepping for "mono" (which is in my input file)
<lucas> ok, but I'm supposed to grep -w
<lucas> (for words)
<lucas> $ echo gtk-engines-mono |grep -w mono
<lucas> gtk-engines-mono
<lucas> ok
<lucas> that's the problem
<slomo> ok
<lucas> "Word-constituent  characters  are
<lucas>               letters, digits, and the underscore."
<lucas> one could argue about this :-)
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> and the '-' ;)
<jamessan|work> that's a pretty standard regexp definition of a 'word character'  :)
<lucas> mmh I'm not sure
<lucas> word could be "anything but \s"
<jamessan|work> I don't think I've seen any other definition for \w
<slomo> brb
<Riddell> who is Andreas Mussgiller?
<mgalvin> siretart: thnx for uploading that theme
<mgalvin> fyi, i got cegui_mk2 and ogre to build and they are awaiting review as well
<Gloubiboulga> I've reported a bug for a universe package, and provided a patch
<Gloubiboulga> To how the patch should be assigned ?
<Gloubiboulga> to whom*
<Gloubiboulga> arf
<Gloubiboulga> To whom the bug should be assigned ?
<JanC> just leave it like it is, I guess?
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: what is the number?
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: most likely it should be assigned to MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> 4450
<JanC> unless you know a motu who wants to look at it
<slomo> dholbach: creating an empty /etc/shadow with touch (running pbuilder login --save-after-login) solves it ;)
<dholbach> slomo: weird, i wonder what the real problem is
<bmonty_laptop> Gloubiboulga: that bug should be assigned to MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> ok bmonty_laptop thanks
<Nafallo> slomo: yay!
<Nafallo> slomo: (x2)
<slomo> Nafallo: was only a give-back on ppc... don't know about the others ;)
<Nafallo> succedded.
<slomo> perfect... test it and tell me :)
<Nafallo> hopefully my pbuilder will do the same in a bit ;-)
<slomo> why did you built it yourself?
<Nafallo> ?
<slomo> "<Nafallo> hopefully my pbuilder will do the same in a bit ;-)"
<Nafallo> yea. that grep /etc/shadow-thing...
<slomo> oh
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> the kernel should go in :03, right?
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> it should be there already
<slomo> NEW?
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> probably
<Nafallo> or even: ofcourse
<Tonio_> re
<herve> hello
<dholbach> hi herve
<dholbach> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> re dholbach
<Tonio_> dholbach: are we supposed to get an email when one package has been uploaded with success ?
<herve> yes
<Tonio_> hum.........
<herve> and with failure too :-)
<Tonio_> ktranslator and kinstaller have been uploaded and I didn't receive any mail...
<herve> but your email needs to be whitelisted by the archive admins
<Tonio_> maybe that's the reason ;)
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: thanks for the help with the uploads
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: no problem :-)
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: learned something new to look for with python packages :)
<Nafallo> I fixed that one for \sh in another package not so long ago so... ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> either way, now I know another thing to check with python packages
<Nafallo> :-)
<magnon> siretart: ping!
<slomo> re
<slomo> lucas: did you fix it already?
<lucas> fix what ? :-)
<lucas> ah, the grep thing ?
<slomo> yes
<lucas> no, not yet
<slomo> oh :(
<slomo> ok, then i do some merges in the meantime :P
<Nafallo> yay! syncs!
<lucas> slomo: you can merge
<lucas> ah
<lucas> eh
<lucas> wait 1 sec ;)
<slomo> np :)
<lucas> (why is rsync taking so long?)
<slomo> i'm currently adjusting my procmail rules :P
<slomo> rsync over ssh?
<lucas> yeah
<lucas> but it seems my server has some connections problems
<lucas> http://www-id.imag.fr/~nussbaum/perso.html/motu-tools/
<lucas> you can merge from there
<slomo> done... and doesn't help :(
<lucas> you replaced filterlist.bash with filterlist.rb ?
<slomo> lol
<slomo> no :)
<slomo> works perfect :)
<aboe> is there somebody from xfce-team??
<aboe> because I got a question?
<slomo> lucas: is it normal that the html generator needs long
<lucas> did you give him the input file on stdin ?
<lucas> and what is it outputting on stdout ?
<slomo> lucas: ok, not stdin ;)
<slomo> hmm, i don't like the colours ;)
<lucas> feel free to submit a patch
<lucas> it's easy to change : the CSS is in the HTML file
<slomo> yes, i know :) but i would choose worse colours... choosing colours for something is no job for me
<lucas> heh
<slomo> but i like it :) i'll make a cronjob out of it :)
* xhaker banhoca
<lucas> it still needs a lot of work
<crimsun> mm xkb borkage
<crimsun> hi dholbach :-)
<dholbach> re :)
<crimsun> dholbach: is 'gnome-games' known-broken on Dapper atm? Invoking most of the binaries from it in /usr/games/ result in the GTK+ setuid/setgid error message.
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: do you mind taking a look at Malone #4443?
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Malone bugzilla: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 404: Not Found
<mgalvin> would anyone happen to have the time to review a package(cegui_mk2 and/or ogre, in revu)?
<Tonio_> hi again
<Tonio_> does anyone here have a breezy pbuilder ?
<bmonty_laptop> Tonio_: I don't have one, but it is fairly easy to make for yourself
<Tonio_> bmonty_laptop: I know, I just don't to build one for just one package ;)
<Tonio_> I have a dapper one and that's enough
<bmonty_laptop> heh
<Tonio_> I have just build a source package for kaffeine 0.7.1
<Tonio_> and I'd like to test to see if it is more stable
<Tonio_> but anyway, I'll built one ;)
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: sure, if you base the debdiff on the debian package :-)
<bmonty_laptop> np :)
<Nafallo> thanx :-)
<Gloubiboulga> I hate multiple packages
<Gloubiboulga> is there any web site where I could find help to build one ?
<slomo> 506 merges left :)
<slomo> rbelem__: ping?
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: done
* xhaker back!
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: I'm going to be working on some more merges...you want me to tell you here or do you want to just look for the emails from malone?
<dholbach> crimsun: erm... new to me, will have a look
<Nafallo> bmonty_laptop: I look for e-mails tomorrow morning. the plan now is to hit the bed as soon as all my syncs and merges are built :-)
<crimsun> dholbach: no worries, I can live with gnometris for a while :-). Thanks regardless.
<crimsun> without
<bmonty_laptop> Nafallo: ok, good night then!
<Nafallo> thanx :-)
<bmonty_laptop> thanks for your help
<StrikeForce> dnnrjrjr
<LaserJock> why would a package not have a "Section:" ?
<herve> nighty night!
<slomo> LaserJock: the binary or source one?
<LaserJock> source
<sivang> nigght all
<slomo> LaserJock: no idea ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, I get that there are 12 source packages in Ubuntu that don't have "Source:"
<LaserJock> but in Debian it is fine
<sistpoty> hi slomo
<sistpoty> slomo: argl... elmo was faster with syncing hmake and haddock than i with ghc6 *g*
<slomo> as expected ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> slomo: there where (are?) some cabal-issues with the new ghc6... I'm testing rebuilt packages right now *hope*
<sistpoty> were even
<slomo> yes?
<tseng> hm if people cant use dpatch w/o my blog being up there is a problem
<slomo> tseng: hm?
<tseng> 08:28 #ubuntu-motu: < zakame> hmm where can I read more on dpatch? tseng's site
<tseng>           doesn't seem to be up
<slomo> at least it shows you that you're important :)
<tseng> hah, right
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-13
<LaserJock> hmmm, lots of people complaining about the file system on the forums
<lucas> the file system ?
<LaserJock> seems odd that people would be worried about that now, although maybe it's always been there and I've missed it
<LaserJock> the directory layout
<LaserJock>  /bin, /etc ....
<azeem>  /etc is new in edgy? ;)
<lucas> now I know why I don't read the forums
<lucas> and I thought ubuntu-devel@ was difficult to follow :)
<minghua> so basically they say FHS is wrong, or what?
<LaserJock> it seems that a more OS X or GoboLinux
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> yeah, that FHS is tool archaic and difficult for new people to learn
<LaserJock> s/tool/too/
<minghua> yeah, I remember Gobo Linux
<minghua> such a weird idea
<LaserJock> it's an interesting thought, I mean we shouldn't *only* keep things around because that's the way it's always been done
* minghua really prefers /etc/ to c:\Program Files\
<LaserJock> but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me
<LaserJock> do new users really go rooting around the file system like that?
<Burgundavia> forums people do
<Burgundavia> and then they fuck up their machines and bitch to /.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I was just thinking about a conversation I had with imbrandon about him using the .hidden file in Kubuntu
<minghua> they don't use the proper tool, but modify files in /etc/ by hand, then complain that /etc/ is too hard to understand
<Burgundavia> it has been a long time since the forums had a sensible idea
<LaserJock> basically not showing that stuff to the user by default
<minghua> I agree hiding them from users in the GUI is a good idea
<LaserJock> sometimes the forums are worth addressing though
<LaserJock> as they are our largest user population that we can get at
<Burgundavia> sometimes
<minghua> nah.  I read the forum thread about _ion's wallpaper today
<Burgundavia> a lot of people in the forums have a hard time understanding how development works
<minghua> don't want to read forum again in near future
<Burgundavia> I should write a piece about it
<LaserJock> darn it, that "lets do stable, testing, and unstable in Ubuntu" thread is kinda messy
<LaserJock> that joepotter guy really gets on my nerves
<LaserJock> he flames me almost every time I talk about Ubuntu development
<LaserJock> he really can't stand that Ubuntu does it differently then Debian
<minghua> LaserJock, you should stop reading forums and work on science packages :-P
<LaserJock> I know
* joejaxx loves grub error 15
<LaserJock> but there needs to be some sanity on the forums ;-)
<LaserJock> even if it's too little too late :-)
<crimsun> no there doesn't. Think of it as a playpen.
<LaserJock> well, for the most part I don't care
<pygi> LaserJock, whats the link to that thread?
<LaserJock> what really aggravates me is when somebody spouts completely false information and then all the little sheep take it as gospel
<LaserJock> people throwing ideas around, even if they aren't great, is much better then specifically spreading false information
<LaserJock> pygi: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=297169
* minghua fetches dictionary and looks up those christian terms...
<LaserJock> minghua: sorry, got too much into cultural/religious references ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: actually I only need to look up gospel.  Just a reminder not everyone understands bible references :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: I'll rephrase it as "take it as absolute truth"
<minghua> this guy just doesn't understand the unstable branch is not important, it's the _people_ who use the unstable branch that are important"
<minghua> at least that's my opinion
<minghua> okay, time to go home
<Simon80> it's true
<Simon80> but I do find myself unsatified with the stability of some aspects of Ubuntu
<Simon80> ....too late to talk with minghua though, hehe
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> it's find to be unsatisfied, IMO
<LaserJock> but the answer is not to just shout at the developers
<LaserJock> and insult them :-)
<Simon80> where does he do that?
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> although it's fine to insult the raging motuaholic.
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> he's a RAGING motuaholic; he can take it
<LaserJock> Simon80: well, that guy has insulted me absolutely every time he has replied to one of my posts
<LaserJock> this is the tamest one I've seen, so far
<crimsun> convince those guys to spec and implement an alternative release, then, in parallel with feisty.
<crimsun> I suspect they'll change their minds very, very quickly
<crimsun> and "I give up, you do it" is not an option for them :)
<crimsun> remember it's fashionable to pick on Ubuntu
<crimsun> people love to whine; only a few actually put in the work
<Simon80> yep
<crimsun> (that's why we exist, eh?)
<Simon80> somewhat, I was mostly no work untill recently.. I plan on getting stepmania into feisty
<Simon80> people want to give their 2 cents without diong work
<Simon80> doing*
<crimsun> heh, and people wonder why some DDs seem bitter...
<Simon80> in some cases I think that's valid, like if something regresses, or just isn't fixed, and the fix is out there
<crimsun> unfortunately just because a fix is available doesn't imply it's appropriate
<Simon80> but usually it is
<crimsun> we've seen that a few times with various updates. There's no guarantee said fix doesn't introduce regressions.
<LaserJock> well, I wouldn't mind people bringing up problems, but often there is a lack of understanding of the development process
<LaserJock> which is understandable if you haven't been around it before
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> so when that hapens, find the netry point and update it to supply more hints
* LaserJock updates ubuntuforums.org to redirect to wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU 
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> pwnt
<LaserJock> ok, well I blasted away a big on on that thread (like it'll do any good)
<LaserJock> and now I need to get back to useful things
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<imbrandon> and lifeless
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> huhu Simon80 new face ( to me ), how go's it
<superm1> hey imbrandon long time no see
<imbrandon> heya superm1 yea, i dident make it on irc much last week at the UDS
<imbrandon> just poped in and out
<superm1> ah. UDS go well?
<imbrandon> yea very well over all from my point of view
<imbrandon> lots of productive stuff got done/planned
<imbrandon> ( and some not so productive stuff after hours )
<superm1> good good
<superm1> hehe
<imbrandon> hehe
<lifeless> hi imbrandon
* imbrandon still has to learn to play moui ( sp? ) better 
<bhale> no, im brandon
<lifeless> imbrandon: mao
<imbrandon> bhale, true but imbrandon not im brandon :) hehe
<imbrandon> lifeless, ahh yea
<imbrandon> i dont think i did terrible for the first time only played what , an hour or so
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I was truly terrible at it in Paris
<superm1> whats moui?  i'm not turning up much in google
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but I was working on not enough sleep and was a bit sick at the time
<imbrandon> well i made it down to 2 cards at one point so i was happy
<LaserJock> superm1: mao
<superm1> ah hehe
<LaserJock> it's some sort of geek-magnet card game
<imbrandon> mao , thus the (sp? ) at the end i wasent sure of the spelling
<lophyte> superm1: who did you say you were in contact with in Toronto?
<superm1> oh michael macleod
<lophyte> ahh..
<LaserJock> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_(game)
<lophyte> I hosted a newbie ubuntu workshop last night and met a woman there who said she was talking to you about your myth/edgy wiki page
<superm1> sounds cool "the only rule you may be told is this one."
<superm1> lophyte, did you catch her name?
<lophyte> nope :\
<imbrandon> superm1, yea you cant be told the rules before or durring the game play
<superm1> thats really cool
<lophyte> just know that she's setting up a home theater system with myth
<lophyte> and she mentioned you
<superm1> glad to hear that i'm making the rounds in canadia :)
<lophyte> hehe, apparently
<superm1> imbrandon, well in favor of having a more fun first game then, i wont read the rules on the wikipedia page
<lophyte> her handle is dennister
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> wuhoh, we have another motu celeb in our midst
<superm1> dennister, hmm i'll have to look through some emails and see if i can find out who she was
<lophyte> that's her handle on linuxcaffe.ca anyway.. dunno if she uses it anywhere else
<Simon80> imbrandon: hey, stepmania has brought me here
<Simon80> packaging it
<lophyte> woooo stepmania
<lophyte> dude!
<lophyte> I just got an awesome idea
<lophyte> when I get around to setting up a myth box.. I'm *so* installing stepmania on it
<Simon80> yeah, if you want a stepmania deb from 20061106 cvs sources, it's on my site
<imbrandon> Simon80, rock on, just saying "hi" since i hadent talked/typed to you before
<Simon80> yeah, I know
<Simon80> I was responding to that :)
<superm1> lophyte, i've got it on my mythbox with a hand built  metal pad, but i havent played in ages since the pad broke 4 months ago
<Simon80> aww
<lophyte> nice.. I've always wanted to build a dandce pad
<Simon80> yeah, I may want to
<Simon80> gonna go eat
<lophyte> the damn pad we have keeps slipping, annoying as heck
<superm1> there was a good guide i found a few years back to building a metal one.  cost me roughly 120 USD and 28 hrs labor
<lophyte> I saw a guide for one made of wood
<Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ if anyone wants stepmania as is... I'm gonna backport to 3.9 sometime so I can get it on revu
<Simon80> need to get my key signed too
<lophyte> you know what would work, though? just nail/velcro the real pads to a wooden platform
<lophyte> that way they won't slip
<superm1> that doesnt work because they wear out
<superm1> after so many steps
<Simon80> I know someone who's done that
<superm1> thats what i originally did
<Simon80> based on a howto online
<superm1> but i was going through pads too quickly
<lophyte> sure, but buy a new one.. they're cheap
<superm1> so i built the metal one
<lophyte> we've had our pads for almost a year
<Simon80> it's really the adapter that's a pain to obtain, getting one that maps buttons to buttons
<Simon80> so once you have that, you can get a pad locally
<lophyte> you mean a PS2->USB adapter?
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> sorry
<Simon80> lol
* imbrandon has made a few snes->ltp adapeters by hand :)
<Simon80> but yes, I bought 5 pads+adapters from lik-sang a while ago
<Simon80> early this year
<Simon80> 1 for me, 1 for gf, 1 for little sis, 2 to sell
<Simon80> had one lined up to sell right away, was too lazy to second the second
<Simon80> sell*
<lophyte> it wouldn't be too hard to build a simple wooden platform..
<superm1> i used a hand built lpt -> ps2 adapter for a while too, but i only ever had it working in win98 back in the day.  never got it working in linux, so i got one of those lik sang ones too
<Simon80> yeah, I got one of the 2 port triangle shaped adapters
<superm1> imbrandon, could you by chance get those branches set up tonite?  i've got some debdiffs that are growing by the day that i wanted to try to get on there
<imbrandon> superm1, just load the joydev and ...... umm *rembers* gamecon kernel modules if not loaded already and the ltp ones work
<imbrandon> superm1, sure
<lophyte> I suck at DDR though.. lol
<lophyte> but meh
<lophyte> its fun
<fernando> hi all
<imbrandon> ello fernando
<superm1> i'll have to dig up that adapter from the closet and see if i cant get it working with those modules.  i remember only briefly trying with it
<imbrandon> gamecon takes some parms , you'll probably have to google for the exact ones
<superm1> its very possible the adapter is broken though too.  i did a *very* ghetto soldering job on it, and have moved several times since then
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> hey
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> how is it going laserjock?
<LaserJock> oh ya know
<LaserJock> got a little annoying fight on the forums going on
<imbrandon> heya zul\
<LaserJock> but I'm about done with that
<zul> heh...im back in ottawa finally
<zul> just ignore the forums you'll live longer
<zul> hey imbrandon
<zul> flight back sucked
<imbrandon> ouch
<zul> i was 2 hours late getting to ottawa, the toilet wasnt working, the flight was overbooked, and they changed the gates 3 times
<imbrandon> wow
<zul> im never ever flying american again
<superm1> zul if your not in a hurry, you have to try to capitalize on those overbookings.  i got a voucher for 300 USD and an overnight stay at a very nice hotel in raleigh last time i was on a plane that was overbooked.
<superm1> just "volunteer" your seat in those cases
<zul> meh...i wanted to get home
<superm1> now i try to plan all my trips with a day of leeway on at least one end so that I can take advantage if i get the chance
<LaserJock> \o/
<sladen> zul: overbooking == $profitable$
<imbrandon> heya sladen and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya imbrandon
<minghua> hi LaserJock, imbrandon and Hobbsee
<LaserJock> hi minghua
* LaserJock does a little dance
<minghua> LaserJock: what is so exciting?
<Hobbsee> hey minghua!
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> minghua: I'm manipulating the gnome menu
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<minghua> oh that.  I had quite some fun the other day, too
<Hobbsee> to make it become like kde?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I'm implementing a dynamic group-driven menu system for Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: nice :)
<LaserJock> we'll see ;-)
<LaserJock> I was able to do a basic implementation during edgy
<LaserJock> but it didn't have any kind of editing really
<LaserJock> it was fixed but dynamic ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua_> isn't that an oxymoron?
<LaserJock> not exactly
<LaserJock> depends on what is fixed and what is dynamic :-)
<imbrandon> dynamic but not editable
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> I made it so that the menu changes depending on what groups a user belongs to
<minghua> I thought that's usually called immutable in CS
<LaserJock> but you can't edit the individual group menus
<LaserJock> minghua: good thing I'm not in CS then ;-)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<LaserJock> so now I'm trying to figure out how to be able to edit my menus with alacarte
<zul> man this show is so not original
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i would assume it would need a seperate tool
<LaserJock> nah, I just need a wrapper
<LaserJock> and some inventiveness ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon decides to look at the merges page for the first time 
<imbrandon> ( this cycle )
<LaserJock> basically setting XDG_CONFIG_HOME and then making my menu structure match what alacarte expects
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ahhh ok
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i thought you would be doing it diffrent, but that makes sense
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I already did a Main merge
<imbrandon> heh nice
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, writing a menu editor from scratch isn't nice :-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: if I want to join the uber MOTU clan I've got to put in some Main work ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i was just checking on my merges, i have more in main then universe this timw
<imbrandon> time*
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: we have two ex-DPLs on staff, not one
<imbrandon> bdale and benc ? isnt it
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: hence why I said at least
<Burgundavia> bdale is HP
<Burgundavia> iwj and BenC
<imbrandon> ahh
<Burgundavia> mdz is a former security team member
<LaserJock> I knew iwj and thought BenC
<imbrandon> i dident know iwj was one, i knew benc was
<minghua> the ber MOTU clan?  the one crimsun is in? :-P
<imbrandon> minghua, the one crimsun is he-man of :)
<imbrandon> what was battlecats coward name ?
<Burgundavia> just responded on http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1750220&posted=1#post1750220
<zul> cringer
<imbrandon> cringer, thats it, i'm cringer :)
<imbrandon> heheh
<zul> heh who is the man at arms
<zul> or something like that
<imbrandon> hehe
<zul> he-man.org
<minghua> Hmmm.
* minghua feels so much more at home with the text-mode installer, compared with the live CD and ubiquity
<Hobbsee> that's scary
<Hobbsee> minghua: me too :P
<imbrandon> not really considering hes from debian , e.g. old school, that seems really normal
<Hobbsee> minghua: mind you, it is nice to have an irc client while installing
<minghua> Hobbsee: very true
<imbrandon>  /uptime
<imbrandon> grr
* minghua is reminded the experience of installing woody without a second computer or internet
<minghua> and dealing with XFree86 3.3 on my savage graphical card
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: thanks ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, do we need to specifically list the Ubuntu changes that we drop in a merge?
<LaserJock> or just the ones we keep?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the latter, i believe
<Hobbsee> cant see the point of the former
<LaserJock> well, don't we need to list all the changes for a sync dropping Ubuntu changes?
<LaserJock> it's been a while since I read the emails on that
<Laser_away> bbl, off to the evil Walmart
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: yes
<imbrandon> later Laser_away
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: that being said, some wont follow policy, and some will miss bits - so it's probably better to read it anyway
<minghua> Burgundavia: thanks for the link of Bryce Harrington's blog, I like it a lot and agree on almost everything
<minghua> hey Seveas, are you still in charge of handing out ubuntu member IRC cloaks?
* minghua wants to get one
<Seveas> minghua, what's your lp id?
<minghua> Seveas: minghua - https://launchpad.net/people/minghua  thanks :-)
* minghua refuses installation CD's offer to install lilo
<superm1> oh imbrandon, i was going to ask you too.  did rt ever get back to you about setting up the mailing list for ubuntu-mythtv?
<imbrandon> not yet, i dident do it at the summit and all the rt@ are in SF at the all hands meeting
<imbrandon> sooo it will probably be next week
<DBO> he imbrandon =)
<DBO> s/e/ey/
<imbrandon> heya DBO
<DBO> not meaning to bug but any progress on those packages? =)
<imbrandon> superm1, sorry some things are going so fast these few weeks and some soo slow :)
<DBO> (I recognize you probably just got back)
<imbrandon> DBO, yea they are done but not ready to upload yet, still kinda hackish
<imbrandon> i'll see if i can finish them tonight
<imbrandon> hopefully
<DBO> imbrandon, I'll owe you one or two
<DBO> let me know if there is anything the Beryl guys can do for you
<imbrandon> heh nothing really at this poit except be just finishing them, but i'm sure there will be something soonish :)
<imbrandon> mt dew run brb
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: stay away from that stuff
<lfittl> hmm, are 3 positive votes from motu-sru for uploading to proposed?
* minghua wonders why imbrandon doesn't have a refrigerator next to the computer :-)
<Hobbsee> minghua: you have seen his fridge, havent you?
<lfittl> s/for/enough for/
<minghua> Hobbsee: you mean the picture with nothing but Mt. Dew in it? yes.
<minghua> lfittl: I believe so.  3/4 from what I remember
<Hobbsee> minghua: yep   :P
<lfittl> k, thanks, finally I can upload this :)
* minghua logs into his newly installed Kubuntu desktop
<minghua> now I need to install gnome-terminal first :-P
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> konsole works nicely
<Hobbsee> there's one thing that disturbs me about gnome-terminal
<Hobbsee> i think it's gnome-terminal - it might be xterm though.
<imbrandon> there is many things, but thats another story
<Hobbsee> it doesnt let me use backspace
<Hobbsee> (at least on my old machine)
<minghua> nah.  no way I can change a terminal to work in, like you can't switch my editor
<Hobbsee> it's just a shell
<Hobbsee> any terminal will give you a bash shell, or whatever you want
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> for some people the whole "desktop" is web browser and terminal :-)
<Hobbsee> yeah, well
<Hobbsee> they're just crazy :P
<minghua> (and I am actually quite close, probably plus xchat-gnome)
<imbrandon> minghua, there are other programs ?
<minghua> heh
<imbrandon> ouch, good thing you have konversation now, i can see using gnome-term, but not xchat
<minghua> imbrandon: yes, frozen bubble!
<imbrandon> whew
<Hobbsee> hehe
<minghua> xchat-gnome is actually quite different from xchat
<minghua> but I suppose it doesn't make enough difference to you KDE guys
<Hawkwind> Yes it does actually
<imbrandon> yea xchat-gnome not only sucks as much as xchat but on top of that it sticks all the settings in the registry^Wgconf
<imbrandon> :)
<Hawkwind> Bahhhhhhhh @ imbrandon
<Hawkwind> Xchat is by far the most superior GUI IRC client available.  It's used and wanted by more users than xchat-gnome and also updated more often.
<Hawkwind> IMO xchat-gnome should *not* be in main over xchat.  But I've also filed a bug/wishlist about this subject
<imbrandon> matter of opinion :)
<Hawkwind> And my opinion counts! :-)
<imbrandon> on both counts :)
<minghua> Hmm, so Kubuntu does install libgtk2.0-0 by default
* minghua wonders what that is for
<imbrandon> not iirc
<minghua> well, maybe only for alternative
<minghua> but it's here on my fresh install
<minghua> bluez-pin depends on it here
<minghua> and libglade2-0
<imbrandon> ahh must be a mistake, thanks for pointing it out, i'll get that bug fixed
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> do you KDE guys know that openoffice.org-core depends on libgtk2.0-0?
* minghua grins
<imbrandon> yes we know, and thus why feisty+1 wont have oo.o :)
<minghua> Hmm, may god bless Kubuntu users then
<imbrandon> actualy it makes alot of sense, but thats another story , i'll get into it later
<Hobbsee> if we were doing that, we could include firefox, surely!  *g*
<minghua> I heard KOffice is making good progress, but it's still hard to believe it will be ready to replace OO.o at feisty+1 frame
<minghua> Hobbsee: I care about that mainly because one of my package went through heavy surgery in ubuntu to split out gtk dependencies
<Hobbsee> minghua: true
<minghua> just because JRiddell doesn't want a Kubuntu install-by-default package to depend on gtk
<minghua> so I am quite astonished to see that it doesn't make any difference anyway
<imbrandon> its not that he dosent want it to depend on gtk, its that we promote kde apps not "best of breed" like suse or others
<imbrandon> and koffice2 ( kde 4 ) will be in feisty+1
<imbrandon> and will have oasis and doc support by then so yes, it does make sense
<imbrandon> instead of loading two libs
<imbrandon> it only will load one set
<imbrandon> also will save tons of room on the cd
<imbrandon> to the tone of 75-90mb
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> if koffice will have decent open document support, then I suppose yes, it does make sense
<imbrandon> if we did best of breed it would make sense to use ff and gaim , and coutless others
<Hobbsee> ick, gaim
<minghua> but I honestly doubt koffice will be ready by then
* Hobbsee cant *stand* gaim
<imbrandon> minghua, then you havent been following it closely, the 2 branch already has decient support for it ( just not stable right now becouse of the underlying libs )
<minghua> of course I haven't followed it closely
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> but koffice 2 hasn't made a stable release yet, has it?
<imbrandon> no obviously not ( as it depends on kde4 libs )
<minghua> and my general feeling is that an office suite program needs about one year to settle down after first stable release
<imbrandon> and thats only in snapshot2 atm, with a beta scheduled for dec sometime
<minghua> (first public beta, let's say)
<minghua> hmm
<minghua> so that's going to be this Dec to next Oct
<imbrandon> minghua, then many many many, disagree with that, infact
<minghua> maybe it will work
<imbrandon> thats the first i've heard anyone say it
<minghua> imbrandon: the "need one year to stablize" thing?
<imbrandon> yes
<minghua> well, let's wait and see then
<minghua> I admit it's not an educated guess
<ajmitch> hi
<sladen> can OOo instead be 'fixed' to not depend on Gtk?
<minghua> but let me remind you one thing -- support for English doesn't count as "good enough support to open document"
<imbrandon> sladen, sure, but it cant be "fixed" to intergrate gracefully into the kde desktop ( and dont say it can use kde dialogs, its about much more that the widgets )
<minghua> s/English/English only/
<imbrandon> who said anything about english only? and a document "format" dosent require translations , and if you mean koffice, its been arround far longer than a year and has great translation support
<imbrandon> anyhow not trying to start a war, but change isnt always a bad thing :) and yes this has been in the works for months and will take many more months to make sure it go's smooth and works right , its not a hap hazard transition
<imbrandon> dont think that
<minghua> imbrandon: no I know you are not trying to start a war (hope you think I am not, too)
<imbrandon> no no not at all, just wanted to make sure you dident think it was a gtk / qt thing, as it go's much deeper than the toolkit
<imbrandon> but yea
<minghua> the thing is, you never will know what Chinese processing bug you are going to have until you have a bunch of Chinese users test it on a daily basis
<imbrandon> minghua, very true, but that dosent stop change, nor realeases ( rember feisty+1 wont be a LTS also )
<minghua> so unless Koffice is developed in a very different way, or the Koffice developers are very genius, I'll bet there will be plenty of bugs when handling languages other than English
<minghua> interface translation is the easiest part of l10n for an office suite program
<imbrandon> i dont see how unless they are already there
<minghua> imbrandon: I have no problem with the decision to replace OO.o with Koffice
<imbrandon> no what i mean is you are talking like koffice is a new program, its been arround for YEARS
<minghua> imbrandon:I think I didn't say "useless" anywhere?
<imbrandon> bug like that would have shown their head by now :)
<minghua> hmm.  maybe the kde3 to kde4 switch is not as big as I think it is then
<minghua> but still, I have heard of _zero_ Chinese user who use Koffice on a daily basis
<minghua> we'll see.  I don't really care about Koffice that much anyway :-P
* minghua likes this Adept Manager quite a bit :-)
<imbrandon> wow , you would be 1 out of 1000 kubuntu users that do
<imbrandon> hehe
<minghua> don't count me as a kubuntu user yet ;-)
<minghua> but I think I know another one
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> some people seem to really like it, untill it breaks their install
<imbrandon> its one of those love or hate things
<imbrandon> just a word of caution though so your not in the "breaks the install category" dont install anything that ask's you a debconf question durring install
<imbrandon> :)
<minghua> bug 70251
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70251 in r-base "the R package depends of GCC 3.4" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70251
<imbrandon> ( e.g. sun-java5-* )
<minghua> I actually knew KDE has a separate APT GUI frontend from that bug report
<minghua> imbrandon: huh?  so this adept manager can't deal with debconf questions at all?
<imbrandon> it tries, and fails, then dpkg dies and unless you fiddle with the /var/run/dpkg/something/lock your screwed on installing or remoiving apps
<minghua> any you guys put this as default in edgy release?  geez.
<imbrandon> know issue ( as in we know adept sucks and are working on it but dont expect much soon )
<imbrandon> its been like that since dapper
<imbrandon> if not before
<minghua> I don't know how many packages ask debconf questions on the default level (high?), but I imagine quite a bit
<imbrandon> nah acctualy only 2 that are commonly installed
<imbrandon> kdm/gdm IF you have both installed, and sun-java5-*
<Hobbsee> minghua: the precursor to adept sucked even more.
<minghua> you guys should just bite the bullet and recommend synaptic :-P
<imbrandon> i doubt that will ever happen
<Laser_away> why can't you just make a qt port of synaptic
<Laser_away> oh yeah, kynaptic or something
<imbrandon> Laser_away, there is ksynaptic , but its not finished and no progress
<imbrandon> but thats my call
<imbrandon> but its not the majority
<Laser_away> synaptic has a lot of nice features
<Laser_away> it's kinda too bad
<TheMuso> c
<imbrandon> wb TheMuso
<minghua> Urgh.
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
* minghua resists the impulse to report bugs against adept manager
<imbrandon> minghua, go ahead , serouisly
<minghua> imbrandon: even I can't follow up to reproduce, test bugfix, etc.?
<imbrandon> someone will have to confirm etc
<imbrandon> dosent have to be the same person
<imbrandon> if your resonable sure its a bug , then yes
<minghua> okay, since you asked nicely...
<minghua> imbrandon: what is the binary package name?
<imbrandon> adept iirc
<imbrandon> is the source package
<imbrandon> ( to file the bugs )
<minghua> binary package is adept, too, it seems
<minghua> no
<minghua> it's adept-manager, it seems
<minghua> I believe LP can find the source package for me
<imbrandon> yea
<minghua> (I was selling this idea in the channel earlier today)
<imbrandon> what idea?
<minghua> (and that was an embarrassing story...)
<minghua> where the binary-package hint in the bug report comes from
<minghua> Eww.  Who thought using underscore in the name of a /usr/bin/ program is a good idea?
<minghua> imbrandon: bug 71596 for you
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71596 in adept "adept-manager: should either ignore unmounted CD in sources.list or at least try other sources first" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71596
<minghua> I also noticed adept doesn't have a bug contact, which is a big no-no IMO for a main package
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> well.. they can file bug reports
<imbrandon> minghua, if you wish set the bug contact to kubuntu-team
<imbrandon> err wait you cant unless you a member, one sec
<ajmitch> alright, now I feel a little more alive :)
<imbrandon> ahhh ajmitch is back :)
<imbrandon> good trip?
<LaserJock> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I said hello earlier :P
<imbrandon> ahh i missed it
<ajmitch> yeah, it was ok
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i'm still getting used to being at home
<ajmitch> uneventful
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> now I feel like getting some food
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<imbrandon> now that i'm home i can upgrade my lappy to feisty without worry :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<minghua> imbrandon: I filed this bug for you, not KDE or Kubuntu.  And if nobody answer/triage it, don't expect to report any bugs against KDE packages soon ;-)
<minghua> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: rofl!  i can confirm one of the amarok bugs
<minghua> (sorry for missing your previous hello)
<imbrandon> minghua, hehe ok i'll be sure to check on it personaly even if i cant fix it, i'll try to make sure it does
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, what one ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: bug 55585
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55585 in amarok "Amarok hangs when holding down of next/previous track hotkey" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55585
<imbrandon> kk
<Hobbsee> based on what it was playing, it sounded rather amusing
<Hobbsee> eventually i had to kill the thing, else it wouldnt shut up
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i might ask about that one upstream?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea probably, thats what i was going to do to start off
<imbrandon> minghua, i changed the bugmail settings for adept too now, thanks for noticing that
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: well, i just hit confirmed and dropped it in their channel
<minghua> imbrandon: no problem, glad I can help :-)
<imbrandon> The "Kubuntu Team" team was successfully subscribed to all bugmail in adept in ubuntu
<imbrandon> ^^ quote from LP
<Hobbsee> what packages are possible to install to provide dvd playback?
<Hobbsee> apart from libdvdread3 binary, and the script associated iwth that?
<imbrandon> front ends or do you mean libdvdcss stuff ?
<Hobbsee> anything apart from libdvdcss - but that kind of stuff
<Hobbsee> +  * Removed install-css.sh which is useless since we have binary packages
<Hobbsee> +    on debian-unofficial.org (Closes: #390544).
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, shouldent need anything else other than that and a player
<Hobbsee> ie, do we have anything other packages like that?  i jus tsaw that debian bug
<imbrandon> ahh none in that case, we need to keep it
<Hobbsee> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=390544
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 390544 in libdvdread3 "libdvdread3: temp file vulnerability in install-css.sh" [Serious,Closed] 
<imbrandon> well we have libdvdcss2 from seveas's repos
<imbrandon> but nothing official
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<imbrandon> as we cant becouse of leagle issues etc
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<Hobbsee> unless it got put in multiverse
<imbrandon> very very very few used that script anyhow, they just got the packages from plf or seveas
<imbrandon> no i dont think it can even go in multiverse afaik
<imbrandon> basicly becouse its not a patent issue its a issue of the actual source is illeagle in the US and other places
<LaserJock> anybody know of any "Here's how you port gtk/qt apps to qt/gtk" guides?
<imbrandon> thus even hosting the source on a US mirror would not be leagle
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i realise that.  i'm wondering if i can ignore what debian's said, and just merge it, with that script in it anyway
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, well thats what i would do is merge and keep the script BUT check on the vunerability is fixed
<imbrandon> OR if its not drop it as they did as the package is avail via third part repos as they did
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that requires figuring out what the vulnerability is.  seeing as it seems a straight use of wget....
<imbrandon> e.g. debian-unofficial or seveas
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: http://rafb.net/paste/results/6DyF8f86.html
<ajmitch> someone hand me caffeine please
<ajmitch> I know imbrandon will have some on hand
* imbrandon slides ajmitch some mt dew
<poningru> realist: libdvdcss is illegal in the US due to the DMCA
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, looks sane to me but it does use /tmp , you might check with some other expert other than me
<poningru> err s/realist/re:
<imbrandon> poningru, correct
<Hobbsee> hmm
<poningru> also some have come up with patent reasons
<imbrandon> but the issue is with the source, not the binaly forms of it or redist etc, thuis even hosting the source you can get in trubble
<poningru> right
<imbrandon> like one person was sued and lost when he printed the source on a t-shirt and wore it
<imbrandon> thus the reason it cant even be in multiverse
<poningru> actually that was the decss dvd key
<imbrandon> right but libdvdcss2 uses that :)
<poningru> but that is no longer illegal since the only protection it had was the tradesecret
<imbrandon> its all kinda stupid tbh but we cant circumvent it atm, i would recomend Hobbsee dropping the script untill the vunerability can be verified NOT to be there as the changelog says as the deb is avail from debian-unofficial and seveas
<poningru> imbrandon++
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<imbrandon> like i said looks sane to me but i'm not a security expert , etc etc etc
<crimsun> it's vulnerable to any number of attacks
<Hobbsee> yeah
<crimsun> it's not chowned or umasked properly; the PATH isn't set properly, etc.
<Hobbsee> so's running any script as root - is amarok's any better?
<imbrandon> yes amarok has checks in place
* ajmitch feels like jumping on the bandwagon
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> oh yay
<imbrandon> ajmitch, installing kubuntu ? hehe
<Hobbsee> I LOVE PEOPLE STEALING MY MERGES AND NOT TELLING ME ABOUT THEM!!!!!   ARGH!!!!
<LaserJock> shesh
* crimsun steals another of Hobbsee's merges
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nah, blogging
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahhh rock on
<Hobbsee> this has happened about 5 times so far!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: may I steal some?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: who has been stealing them?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, fix universe :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure, but please actually tell me about them
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: non MOTU's
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nah, I'll fix main
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: and have they been uploaded?
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: nope.  they've been assigned to MOTU, and left to sit
<LaserJock> so when has this "owning" of merges start :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: start of edgy or so
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it says on MOM
* crimsun assigns all his universe merges to LaserJock 
<crimsun> go raging motuaholic, go!
<Hobbsee> If you are not the previous uploader, ask the previous uploader before doing the merge. This prevents two people from doing the same work.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: so people have been contributing fixes, and you don't like that?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, haha that was my thinking
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's not that i dont like that - i do.  it's the fact that they do for stuff that's listed as me, i do the same, without checking LP first, then figure it all out and go "oh damn, someone's already done this, now i've just done the work again"
<imbrandon> i'm likie and thats a bad thing? ( kinda sucks if you dont look first , but its a good thing(tm)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: people are just eager to help :)
<Hobbsee> i mean, obviously i should be looking first, but the double work isnt necessary.  we dont have the people to be able to do that!
<LaserJock> well, this is why we  shouldn't be relying on merges.ubuntu.com for this
<LaserJock> we should need "ownership" of merges to help us keep track
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: what else are people using though?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: we used to use a revu page
<LaserJock> that was much better for this
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, obviously LP also :)
<crimsun> the revu page is still subject to the same race condition that merges.uc has
<LaserJock> well, except with the revu page you file a bug to "lock" the merge
<Hobbsee> it's a problem with syncs - as those are waiting a while to go thru, so the probability of them already being done is higher
<ajmitch> people can still duplicate work, no matter what
<LaserJock> there is no way of indicating status on merges.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> precisely, bmonty and I raced on merges numerous times
<LaserJock> sure it can happen, but I thought it was much easier to see what was going on with the revu page
* Hobbsee expected that to happen later
<crimsun> feisty-changes isn't reliable, either, since some uploads aren't announced
<Hobbsee> indeed
* Hobbsee acks the other one, anyway
<Hobbsee> wish they'd stolen the merges i didnt want to do :P
<imbrandon> lol
* minghua frowns at 35760 and 37711
<minghua> two bugs I am trying to produce by doing this Kubuntu install, to no avail :-(
<Hobbsee> yay, i can request a sync that *hasnt* already been done!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I solved the issue by doing virtually no merges in Edgy
<Hobbsee> crimsun: mind if i request a sync for kmldonkey?
<LaserJock> I don't own much of anything
* ajmitch does some reviewing
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh, i was thinking fo that
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, I have basically nothing
<ajmitch> yay for me being lazy
<crimsun> Hobbsee: not at all
<Hobbsee> crimsun: :)
* ajmitch returns to being lazy
<Hobbsee> crimsun: and that's a really werid way to call dh_iconcache
<crimsun> I don't even remember what put into the delta
<crimsun> what I put, even
<Hobbsee> the long way of calling it, instead of just "dh_iconcache"
* minghua has no merges either
<LaserJock> well, I would have probably done more merges but I didn't see any way of assessing merge status
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, the feisty pbuilder has those hooks now too
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hooks for what?
* Hobbsee wonders when large amounts of doom will occur at work
<crimsun> from the pbuilder examples
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: pbuilder hooks - b91dpkg-i and c10shell, in particular
<imbrandon> some hooks that were built from examples Hobbsee wanted me to use on my dev build machine
<LaserJock> oh
<minghua> Hmm, so what is this dh_iconcache thing?  something specific to ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> (direct copies, actually)
<imbrandon> minghua, it was a ubuntu transition , but now its in the gnome.mk and kde.mk cdbs files so no longer needed for the most part
<Hobbsee> minghua: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges
<Hobbsee> which reminds me - it's needed in network-manager - i saw a bug about it
<imbrandon> minghua, started close to the begining of dapper dev cycle iirc
<minghua> thanks imbrandon and Hobbsee
<minghua> the mail linked from the wiki is dated April 2006
<minghua> so _end_ of dapper cycle
<minghua> and no wonder I didn't pay attention to it
<imbrandon> yea somewhere in there heh
<LaserJock> grrr, you know what I have the hardest time finding in LP? .debs
* minghua looks at the 9 mails in his inbox and counts 6 of them from LP bugmail by minghua himself
<LaserJock> it takes me so many stinking clicks to find them
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's only about 20 clicks to find them
<minghua> there isn't a way to say "I don't want to receive mail for my own comments" in LP, is there?
<ajmitch> minghua: not that I'm aware of
<imbrandon> hrm Hobbsee the dpkg-i one is a little flakey, i might change it a bit
<imbrandon> hen i get some time
<Hobbsee> if you want
<imbrandon> it doesnt try to install the deps
<ajmitch> imbrandon: gdebi!
<imbrandon> it just fails if dpkg -i doesnt work
<imbrandon> ajmitch, heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: gdebi works well as a command-line-only tool
<imbrandon> does it ? wow ok, i'll look at making the hook use that instead
<ajmitch> you'd just have to put it into the extra packages part of the pbuilder config
<Hobbsee> it doesnt?  i thought it did
<Hobbsee> ahh
<imbrandon> right
<minghua> what is wrong with plain old debi?
<minghua> so there is no chance to try these desktop bling if your graphical card isn't intel, nvidia, or ati?
<imbrandon> minghua, basicly no ( thus not on by default )
<Amaranth> ajmitch: you made it!
<Amaranth> ajmitch: how was the train? :)
<imbrandon> if it has direct rendering and composit is /should/ work
<minghua> imbrandon: thanks.  I think I can forget about it for a while then
<ajmitch> Amaranth: boring, but I ended up meeting up with a bunch of guys at millbrae
<Amaranth> cool
<minghua> I don't want to install ubuntu on either my laptop or the computer at school
<ajmitch> how much did the taxi cost?
<Amaranth> whiprush told me the train didn't even stop
<Amaranth> $74
<ajmitch> yeah, I waited for the 10:23 train
<Amaranth> ick
<ajmitch> got into the airport about the time your flight left
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> i told the guy i was coming back soon so he gave me his card and a discount
<ajmitch> ended up having lunch with some of the guys there
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> me and wasabbi ended up on the same flight home
<imbrandon> well for the first leg of the trip
<Amaranth> cool
<ajmitch> yeah I saw wasabi in the airport as well
<Amaranth> i was the bus dropping people off
<Amaranth> but the guy wouldn't let me out the cab to say bye
<imbrandon> wow, i was probably there at the same time then too, i told him to check the resurants at the intl term, i was eating at the term we got on and it sucked
* LaserJock <3 xnest
<Amaranth> it was like 10:15am
<imbrandon> LaserJock, heh
<Amaranth> 10:25am at the latest
<imbrandon> yea i got to the airport about 10:30 my flight dident leave till 2:50 though
<LaserJock> testing the dynamic menus login scripts is much handier with xnest
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yeah, I didn't see wasabi until much later though
<LaserJock> but I do hate menus :/
<Amaranth> i ran into whiprush in minneapolis
<Amaranth> different airports, different flight times, we landed at almost the same time there :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> hmmm, my wife is making fun of MOTU
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> oh dear
<imbrandon> hows that?
<imbrandon> you tell her about council greyskull yet ? LOL
<LaserJock> she was just trying to call our esteemed origin sheman
<crimsun> she's just making fun of us mere mortals, not you celebs like the raging motuaholic and imbrandon
<imbrandon> heh
* ajmitch wishes he could be a MOTU like LaserJock 
<LaserJock> whatever
* LaserJock wishes he could be a core-dev like ajmitch 
<ajmitch> I'll have to settle for being mortal like crimsun :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: go before the tech board then :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: in time, in time
<imbrandon> crimsun is past deity status , he was brought up more than once as the model of a ubuntu developer
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> in that case we're screwed
<imbrandon> HAHAHAHA
<ajmitch> whereas I'm brought up as the example of what not to be :)
<LaserJock> it takes all kinds
* imbrandon does his first feisty upload
* ajmitch cheers
<imbrandon> i should have 2 or 3 before the nights over
<imbrandon> *hopefully* if it all go's smooth
<imbrandon> hrm there is a automake-*-nonfree ? wow
<ajmitch> of course
* imbrandon never noticed that before
<ajmitch> GFDL documentation
<LaserJock> wahoo, it works, it works
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course it does, if the raging MOTUholic did it
<Simon80> lol, GFDL = non-free
<LaserJock> I can edit the menus with alacarte and all I have to do is take out one line of the resulting .menu file
<imbrandon> Simon80, it is according to the dfsg
<Simon80> I know
<Simon80> but I haven't figured out why yet
<Simon80> googling now
<LaserJock> well, it's not GPL compatible
<LaserJock> mostly the nasty stuff is in invariant sections I believe
<Amaranth> LaserJock: what line?
<LaserJock> it's deemed marginally dfsg free if there are no invariant sections
<Amaranth> (yes, i do ding on 'alacarte')
* ajmitch notes that
* Amaranth smacks ajmitch
<imbrandon> alacarte alacarte alacarte alacarte
<Amaranth> one ding per line :)
<Simon80> http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml
<LaserJock> Amaranth: if I edit something it adds a <AppDir>/home/mantha/.local/share/applications</AppDir>
<Amaranth> LaserJock: ah, right
<imbrandon> thats ok my "ding" is /usr/share/sounds/KDE_Beep_Ahem.wav
<Amaranth> LaserJock: it should be adding XDG_DATA_HOME
<ajmitch> back later
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess that would be XDG_DATA_HOME
<imbrandon> later
<LaserJock> I just gave it XDG_CONFIG_HOME
<LaserJock> let me try it
<Amaranth> LaserJock: if it doesn't work please file a bug
<LaserJock> Amaranth: it works, sweet
<Amaranth> w00t
<Amaranth> that line is important for unbreaking interactions with legacy menus, i'm glad you don't have to remove it
<LaserJock> it even works when I add an item to the menu
* Amaranth swears a lot
<Amaranth> fscking menu spec :P
<LaserJock> I'm not exactly a big fan either
<Amaranth> wait, no, smegging menu spec :)
<LaserJock> a lot of the time it's a real pain
<LaserJock> too vague
<Amaranth> it's great for the use-case of "an ISV wants to drop something into a menu"
<Amaranth> but then it just goes crazy for everything else
<LaserJock> ok, so the only thing I think I won't be able to implement that I wanted to is bookmarks in the menus
<Amaranth> bookmarks?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: explain please, maybe we can do some magic
<Amaranth> LaserJock: WinXP "Pin to Start Menu" kind of thing?
<LaserJock> well basically I want to be able to drop in bookmarks into the menus
<nixternal> oy!
<LaserJock> so like in the Chemistry menu there would be a link to the chemisty web book, etc.
<Amaranth> oh, right
<Amaranth> easy
<LaserJock> but gnome-menus doesn't respect Type=Link
<Amaranth> right
<LaserJock> so you have to create .desktops with Exec=firefox http://....
<LaserJock> which then becomes a usability problem
<Amaranth> eh?
<LaserJock> because teachers should have to know that they have to make an item for a browser to open a URL
<LaserJock> they should just be able to specify the URL
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> alacarte could do some magic in the backend for that, i suppose
<LaserJock> so I could possibly add that to my GUI
<Amaranth> but the real answer would be to all Type=Link support to gnome-menus
<crimsun> err, did you mean "shouldn't" above?
<Amaranth> up for a challenge? :)
<Amaranth> crimsun: yes, he did :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: for the first one yeah :-)
<LaserJock> Amaranth: well, from what you said it sounds like gnome-menus isn't very active upstream
<Amaranth> markmc just committed some stuff, actually
<LaserJock> I'm not sure I'm code-savy enough to just hack into it
<Amaranth> it might be a PITA getting him to do a code review though
<LaserJock> I wonder if there is a gnome bug about it
<Amaranth> oh, you want someone else to do it for you :)
<Amaranth> i thought Type=Link was dropped from the spec since GNOME didn't support it
<LaserJock> from what spec?
<LaserJock> Gnome uses it for other things
<LaserJock> just not in the menus
<LaserJock> I think that is a little inconsistent
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> well, if there is already code to do it i wouldn't think making gnome-menus call that code would be hard
<LaserJock> well, nautilus handles them fine on the desktop
<LaserJock> I guess alacarte would have to handle editing them too
<Amaranth> yeah, that wouldn't be so bad
<LaserJock> maybe I'll file a bug in gnome
<LaserJock> and mention it in my spec
<LaserJock> and at least start something there
<LaserJock> hopefully seb won't eat me alive
<LaserJock> :-)
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> brb, rebooting
<minghua> why would seb eats LaserJock alive for this?
<LaserJock> well, any time I've ever brought up .desktops or menus it hasn't ended well for me ;-)
<minghua> oh I see
<minghua> I think I remember something as well
<LaserJock> the whole MOTU Science .desktop experience
<minghua> must has to do with the Science category
<LaserJock> and the first time I worked on dynamic menus he didn't want me touching gnome-menus
<LaserJock> but that's ok, he has good reasons
<LaserJock> I just get a little nervous about making the gnome guy mad :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, so I count 74 open bugs for motureviewers and ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ajmitch> LaserJock: at 1 a minute, it won't take long
<LaserJock> 1 a minute? that seems kinda fast
<LaserJock> it takes my pbuilder that long to unpack the base.tgz :/
<ajmitch> quite a few will be too trivial for edgy-updates, so you'll have to ask them to update the patch for feisty
<ajmitch> so < 1 min for those
<LaserJock> true
<crimsun> argh, why are people filing sync requests for packages that will be brought in automatically?!
<crimsun> cf. bug 71515
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71515 in Ubuntu "requesting sync xmms2 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71515
<crimsun> and to add insult to injury, u-a is subbed
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<minghua> as someone has said, people are just eager to help
<LaserJock> crimsun: bummer
<minghua> filing a sync request is easy
<minghua> and we also share the blame for not having crystal-clear docs
* LaserJock volunteers minghua to write the docs
<minghua> I am not even sure about the procedure myself :-)
* minghua wonders if "whenever in doubt, consult #ubuntu-motu first" would be accepted as good doc :-P
<minghua> because that's what I do now
<crimsun> how many different issues are in bug 71559?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71559 in Ubuntu "libgcc_s.so.1 prob? libstdc++.so.1 and libgcj.so.70 complain about GCC_4.2.0 no being found" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71559
<StevenK> Too eager, methinks.
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> hmm, my question is actually how many issues mentioned in 71559 are about official packages
<ajmitch> minghua: probably 0
<minghua> that's what I thought
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch>   required from libgcc_s.so.1:
<ajmitch>     0x0b792653 0x00 17 GCC_3.3
<ajmitch>     0x09276060 0x00 16 GCC_4.2.0
<ajmitch> for 4.1.1-13ubuntu5
<ajmitch> (libstdc++6)
<imbrandon> for those that havent seen it the i copied the kubuntu misfits to my webserver http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/uds_mtv/kubuntu_uds_mtv.jpg
<ajmitch> scary people
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> of course, you're holding mt dew...
<imbrandon> right on, i cant be parted with my mt dew :)
<crimsun> hmm, where is the "Enable Software sound mixing" checkbox in 6.10 (gnome)?
<crimsun> System> Preferences> Sound> [which tab] 
<minghua> ajmitch: strange
<ajmitch> the sounds tab
<crimsun> ok, thanks
<Toadstool> 15
<Toadstool> uhuh :)
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<crimsun> 'lo Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey crimsun
<ajmitch> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon :)
* joejaxx is having fun patching and compiling kernels
<joejaxx> hello Toadstool imbrandon
<imbrandon> lo
<Toadstool> 'lo joejaxx
<joejaxx> i am compiling 2.6.18.2 for my laptop
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: a shame we didn't get a full group photo
<imbrandon> yea , i figured we would
* ajmitch doesn't even have many photos of people
<TheMuso> What? They didn't do a group photo this time?
<ajmitch> nope
<imbrandon> yea i dont have many either, but tons of people were taking them so i'll leach off flikr
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i guess they forgot
<imbrandon> TheMuso, nope, only the kubuntu group, no "everybody" one
<joejaxx> is ipw2200 support in kernel upstream by default?
<joejaxx> or is that a ubuntu patch
<Lathiat> hrm i think it got merged didnt it?
<crimsun> it's in upstream
<Lathiat> it was an ubuntu patch for a while, tho
<joejaxx> ok thanks
<ajmitch> well, we should be getting GPLed java soon
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: one hopes
<joejaxx> nice
<ajmitch> 'today', they say
<Burgundavia> today?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> Nov 13th
<Burgundavia> wow
<Burgundavia> 9:30am
<ajmitch> apparantly they're using the same gpl exception that gnu classpath uses
<ajmitch> which would mean that they could share code where needed
<Burgundavia> that would rock
<imbrandon> nice then compile for ppc and move to main :)
<ajmitch> I guess we'll find out the details in a few hours
<imbrandon> i bet the server will be hammered with downloads
<imbrandon> ( sun's download page )
<Burgundavia> nice thing about being in the same timezone as most of the these big tech companies: they do press announcements during your business day
<Lutin> slomo: ping
<slomo> Lutin: pong
<Lutin> slomo: I'd like to package tapioca-sharp (http://tapioca-voip.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/SubProjects) but I can't understand the mono naming policy. would you tell me how I should name the package ?
<slomo> Lutin: how are the assemblies named?
* ajmitch guesses he doesn't need to package telepathy-sharp now :)
<Lutin> ajmitch: why ?
<ajmitch> I was planning to do so once I got home
<slomo> Lutin: INdT.Tapioca.dll? then libtapiocaX.Y-cil, libindt-tapiocaX.Y-cil or one of those two without the X.Y if it's unstable API packaging
<slomo> ajmitch: giskard already packaged t-s since weeks already anyway
<ajmitch> that's useful to know
<ajmitch> then the package on revu is a bit redundant
<slomo> no idea why it's not uploaded yet
<Lutin> ajmitch: I know, I didn"t see there was a bzr branch of t-sharp before uploading
<Lutin> the pacakge pon revu should be nuked
<Lutin> on*
<ajmitch> I'll kill it then
<slomo> Lutin: ok, one of the two without X.Y as it has alp's dbus implementation and must not go into the gac yet
<Lutin> slomo: ok
* ajmitch met the telepathy guys at UDS, very interesting project
<Lutin> slomo: do you have idea when t-sharp will be uploaded ?
<slomo> Lutin: ask giskard :) no idea
<Lutin> ok slomo, thanks
<Lutin> giskard: around ?
* StevenK ponders asking his employer for time off and money for flights so he can kick the author of wlassistant fair in the head.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> hrm
* imbrandon wonders why his uploads arent showing on feisty-changes
<minghua> imbrandon: it's said to be moderated now
<imbrandon> hrm thats strange
<Chandu> hi
<imbrandon> shouldent be now that uploads are open
<Chandu> How tasksel package works with the installer
<minghua> imbrandon: ask Fujitsu, he seems to know more
<Chandu> hey Ubuntu is building a single cd distro with openoffice with D_I
<Burgundavia> Chandu: sorry, I am having a hard time understanding exactly what you want
<Chandu> Burgundavia, I want to build a single cd distro (How Ubuntu is there ) with openoffice , ngome desktop and few other applications ..
<Burgundavia> right
<Chandu> Burgundavia, I am using Debian G-I , Iam able to create the image ..but tha pacakges what I have mentioend in my tasks list of debian-cd are not installing
<Burgundavia> what specifically do you need to change from Ubuntu?
<ivoks> so, what's the thing with binary drivers?
<ivoks> will ubuntu really shipp them by default?
<Chandu> Burgundavia, Not change from Ubuntu ..I want to know the steps to follow to come out with a single cd
<Burgundavia> ivoks: afaics, yes
<ivoks> hm... yes?
<ivoks> looks like i'm returning to debian :/
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AcceleratedX
<Burgundavia> I imagine the debate is going to get a lot noisy once it actually happens
<ivoks> Currently, Ubuntu does little to enable Composition and 3D
<ivoks> who wrote this?!
<imbrandon> Chandu, you might talk with joejaxx sometime, he is doing the same thing from scratch , and is working on modified scripts he got from cjwatson at UDS
<Burgundavia> ivoks: rodrigo novo
<ivoks> this is untrue
<Chandu> Burgundavia, ok
<Chandu> imbrandon, ok
<Burgundavia> ivoks: that acceleratedX spec was drafted by rodrigo. I understand that sabdfl is heavily pushing this
<Chandu> joejaxx, I am working on a distro build .. I want to come out with a single cd distro with gnome , openoffice and few other applications by default
<ivoks> Burgundavia: i hope this is just a nightmare :)
<imbrandon> Chandu, as i said ask joejaxx for his scripts to do this, he has that all working with seeds etc, the proper way
<Chandu> joejaxx, with debian G-I ... I want to know the steps that I need to follow to come out with a single cd as Ubuntu with all feaures
<Burgundavia> ivoks: I truly hope so too. But you understand how sabdfl can be
<Chandu> imbrandon, ok
<Chandu> joejaxx, Can you give me the scripts that u r using to do all these things
<ivoks> Burgundavia: this will result in more ubuntu users, but even less good programers
<Chandu> joejaxx, Iam able to build a image ..but all the pacakges which Iam listing in tasks of debian-cd are not installing
<imbrandon> Chandu, he is most likely asleep as its 2am in his timezone
<Burgundavia> ivoks: yes. I agree. https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/accelerated-x <-- still in drafting, at least
<Chandu> imbrandon, oh ..ok
<Chandu> imbrandon, Then When can I get him
<Burgundavia> all the X specs are, for that matter
<Burgundavia> ivoks: just glad I have an i915 here
<imbrandon> Chandu, probably email him, his email should be listed on fluxbuntu.org or launchpad
<Chandu> imbrandon, ok
<ivoks> Burgundavia: me too
<ivoks> Burgundavia: i945 :)
<Burgundavia> lucky bastard :)
<ivoks> i don't belive it... :(
<ivoks> rodrig is maintaining xorg and says that composite isn't enabled :/
<ivoks> -o
<ivoks> rodrigo :)
<ajmitch> he's mainly referring to the very common cases of nvidia/ati
<Burgundavia> ivoks: rodrig was hired to work on other stuff and got stuck with Xorg
<Burgundavia> I know he is very much not an X expert
<ivoks> heh, i planned starting company that will base it bussiness on ubuntu, but i have second tougths now :/
<Burgundavia> ivoks: then contact Mark directly and mention that
<imbrandon> the general consinsus is it wont happen yet, but i'm with Burgundavia talk to mark directly
<imbrandon> ( consinsus at UDS )
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: the entire world < Mark
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I think that it at least requires the community to vote on it, to change the philosophy statement
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, oh i know, but it helps when we had litterly EVERYONE but the beryl devs against it including mdz and keybuk
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: if you read the philosophy, we don't need to change it
<ivoks> if we do that, we aren't ubuntu anymore
<ivoks> jesus... if beryl would be something we can't live wihtout, then ok...
<ivoks> but it's just useless eye candy
<ajmitch> s/we/mark/
<Burgundavia> it is a good thing the binary drivers are such shite
<ivoks> yeah...
<Burgundavia> it makes the whole "we are going to have major regressions" argument much easier
<ivoks> i wonder which kernel dev would agree to maintiain them
<Burgundavia> what about the all random bugs?
<ivoks> that's icluded in 'maintainace' :)
<Burgundavia> "Currently, we make a specific exception for some "drivers" which are only available in binary form, without which many computers will not complete the Ubuntu installation."
<ivoks> grr... this keyboard :/
<imbrandon> which kernel dev ? heh we only have 2 and one just signed the contract at UDS heh
<Burgundavia> that is all our philosophy says on this matter
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: who signed at UDS?
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, i forgot his name to be honest, i'm terrible with names , i just know he was out smoking with me and BenC ( the only other kernel dev currently ) when he cancled his flight to stay at the all hands meeting becouse he finaly signed the contract
<imbrandon> i'll have to look it up later
<Burgundavia> ok, no worries
<ajmitch> kylem
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> aka kyle mcmartin (iirc)
<Burgundavia> ah, another canuck
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/people/kyle
<imbrandon> yup
<Burgundavia> I think there are now more Canadian Canonical employees than Amurikan
<Burgundavia> kylem is a DD as well
<imbrandon> lol thats not hard as most of us Amurikan's were labled rednecks
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> leaste i was :)
<ajmitch> no surprise there :)
<imbrandon> heh , i think the "yall" gave it away, it dosent come accross on irc well
<Burgundavia> what exactly needs non-free drivers right now? all nvidia and x1xxx from ATI
<Burgundavia> ?
<slomo> imbrandon: LP is not yet white-listed for feisty-changes it seems
<imbrandon> slomo, yea i noticed :(
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, depends on your definition of "needs" i have both nvidia and ati and none use binary drivers ( but none have 3d accel either )
<imbrandon> i think its mostly network cards that "need" it
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: by "needs", I mean "needs 3D drivers"
<ajmitch> nvidia binary driver is also needed for basic stuff like dual-head
<Burgundavia> r300 does free 3D for everything below the x1xxx series
<imbrandon> well the freee ati can do direct rendering and composite ootb on all cards afaik but its better on the non-free drivers from what i've been told
<imbrandon> i know atleaste the free ati works for direct 3d on mt radeon moble 7500
<imbrandon> s/mt/my
<imbrandon> in my ibook
<Burgundavia> yes, up to the the 9800 and the x700
<Burgundavia> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/UserStatus
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to sleep
<Burgundavia> just wanted to see if I was missing anything
<imbrandon> gnight Burgundavia
<ajmitch> nouveau project is a long way from having a useful 3d driver
<imbrandon> nouveau == free "ati" ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> nvidia
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> i might try that tomarrow on my box that has an nvidia card
<ajmitch> all you'll get is some slight improvements over the nv driver
<imbrandon> as i dont use it really for anything but to ssh into and compile so if X breaks no biggie
<ajmitch> there is no working 3d
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> the ddx part is the nv driver, with some fixes
<slomo> imbrandon: your stuff will be built nonetheless
<imbrandon> my main thing is the chipset in it and nic, i could really care less about 3d rendering tbh
<imbrandon> slomo,  yea i seen it hit the buildd's just was curious about the list
* imbrandon did 3 uploads tonight
<imbrandon> and i almost have amarok ready too, but i think i'll finish it up in the morning
<imbrandon> as its almost bed time for imbrandon
<StevenK> Huzzah!
* StevenK finally manages to convince wlassistant to actually connect.
* StevenK hacks the patch into slightly better shape.
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> night all
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: what are you fixing in amarok?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I move we kick wlassistant out of kubuntu-desktop.
<StevenK> imbrandon: It is *PURE* crap.
<imbrandon> StevenK, hahaha agreed
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, at the moment merging it with debian
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, and a few other minor things
<Admiral_Chicago> sending things upstream?
<Admiral_Chicago> i reported a bug for amarok today, hopefully someone can duplicate it
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, always, i work with upstream very closely, i'm even in the uber secret amarok dev channel and ML :)
<imbrandon> its one of the main reasons i'm a core-dev :)
<Admiral_Chicago> ML?
<imbrandon> dev / packagers mailing list
<Admiral_Chicago> ah mailing list, spam filter anyone?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm one of the three ML admins for the Chicago LoCo as of toady
<imbrandon> yes and by invite only iirc
<imbrandon> no this is for amarok as a whole, not ubuntu-amarok
<imbrandon> e.g the gentoo maintainers, fedora guys etc etc etc
<Admiral_Chicago> i got you
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: maybe you can duplicate this bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/71584
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71584 in amarok "on screen display lags text typing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<imbrandon> :) anyhow , short answer yes i send all fixes that apply to upstream back to upstream both upstream:upstream and debian for everything i work on, including amarok
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, i'm on a console only box + irssi atm but when i get back on my desktop i'll check it out, i stuck it in my ~/Desktop/TODO file
<imbrandon> i'm stuck*
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Why, did KDE break again? :-P
<imbrandon> hahah no, upgrading my laptop to feisty
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm doing a talk on Ubuntu / FOSS friday, it's mostly going to be on the community and Ubuntu
<imbrandon> i dont like to have X running when dist-upgrading
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm sticking upstream / governance in there
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, make sure to pimp kubuntu a bit too :)
<StevenK> And it's still a 73 line patch.
* StevenK checks that the fucker still actually works.
<StevenK> Then I get beat upstream about the head, and file a SRU bug.
<imbrandon> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i'm a kde fan boy. gnome is nice but the GUI is hard to use imho
<StevenK> imbrandon: So, Mr. KDE Using Person, how do I file a bug with a large bat attached?
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, cool, i was just making sure you mentioned both :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, hahaha a KDE bug?
<imbrandon> or kubuntu ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Well, a bug on wlassistant.
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i'm doing ichthux, edubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntu, kubuntu
<imbrandon> mailbomb the maintainer? heh
<Admiral_Chicago> doing the whole spectrum
* StevenK twitches.
<StevenK> Don't tempt me.
<Admiral_Chicago> this is the orginal
<Admiral_Chicago> ah sorry wrong channel
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i wonder if i can make konsole start "screen bash" not just "bash" when it open &/or opens a new tab
* imbrandon looks
<StevenK> Multiple tabs in Konsole each running screen? *twitch*
<imbrandon> well mostly so i can kill X and never have to worry about what i have running in console, or if i leave on a whim unexpecdly i can ssh in and connect back to them
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: ping
<imbrandon> i hate starting a compile just to rember i forgot to start screen and have to leave or restart X
<StevenK> Burgundavia: Apparently, he's sleeping.
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> I need a DD
<StevenK> imbrandon: Why not one screen session?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, i think he just headed to bed
* StevenK hides.
<imbrandon> StevenK, well how would that work with multi tabs in konsole ?
* imbrandon points Burgundavia to StevenK
* imbrandon runs
<StevenK> imbrandon: You know screen supports more than one shell, right?
<imbrandon> StevenK, no , actualy i dident , i'm a very basic user of screen
<Burgundavia> StevenK: pm'ed you
<imbrandon> i just know about "screen bash" ctl+a+d  and "screen -DR"
<imbrandon> other than that nothing
<imbrandon> StevenK, ^
<StevenK> imbrandon: Try Ctrl-A c
<Admiral_Chicago> amarok crashes, kmail pops up to send a report to the amarok people, then that crashes
<Admiral_Chicago> nice
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ctrl+A c, and Ctrl+A a.
<StevenK> And Ctrl-A p and Ctrl-A n
<imbrandon> Admiral_Chicago, hahah
<Fujitsu> And those two.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, StevenK, great but does me no good unless i know what they do :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Try Ctrl-A c
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> done
<imbrandon> seems to do nothing
<Fujitsu> c creates a new terminal within the screen session, a goes to the previous one or something like that. p to the previous, n to the next./
<imbrandon> p prev / n next ?
<StevenK> Correct
<imbrandon> what's a ?
<Fujitsu> a switches to the one you were at last.
<StevenK> Ctrl-a a is a literal Ctrl-A
<imbrandon> oh man, you guys fskin rock
<geser> Ctrl-a ? show the key list
<StevenK> Ctrl-A Ctrl-A on the other hand, switches to the last window you were in.
* StevenK slaps Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Oh, yes.
<Fujitsu> I never think about it, I just do it out of habit :P
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's like, the entire point of screen.
<geser> with Ctrl-A [0-9]  you can directly jump to the nth screen
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not really, the whole reason i started using screen was to start a process on a box i ssh into and close the connection with the program running still
<imbrandon> nothing more
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> past that i just pick little bits up here and there
<imbrandon> but now i can use just one screen session
<imbrandon> very very cool, because i normaly had 2 or 3 going untill now
<StevenK> imbrandon: I suggest you read the manual page.
<StevenK> Specifically, the "DEFAULT KEY BINDINGS" section.
<imbrandon> yea i probably should but i figure i have been using it for 3 or 4 years without it i'm reluctant , hehehe
<imbrandon> detach and reattach has served me well untill now
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brandon  pts/4    :pts/3:S.0       03:53   24.00s  0.18s  0.18s /bin/bash
<imbrandon> brandon  pts/5    :pts/3:S.1       03:59    5.00s  0.16s  0.16s /bin/bash
<imbrandon> brandon  pts/6    :pts/3:S.2       04:00    0.00s  0.17s  0.01s w
<imbrandon> hahaha rock on
<imbrandon> thanks guys
* imbrandon has a new toy/tool
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: i update the bug report with screenshots
<imbrandon> kk
<geser> imbrandon: you can also add some info to the status line of screen like displaying the hostname (useful if you ssh to several different boxes)
<imbrandon> yes definately, i spend almost all my computer time ssh'd into 5 or 6 diffrent boxes ( but i normaly just pay attn to the user@host prompt )
<geser> add something like 'hardstatus alwayslastline "%{.bW}%-w%{.rW}%n %t%{-}%+w %=%{..G} %H %{..Y} %Y-%m-%d %c "' to your .screenrc
<imbrandon> wow
<StevenK> imbrandon: Note: screen can do a whole lot of stuff. :-)
<Jozo-> Splitting screen is also useful (C-a S).
<imbrandon> heh i'm noticing
<StevenK> What about screen -x?
<StevenK>        -x   Attach to a not detached screen session. (Multi display mode).
<Jozo-> and scrollback, and cut/paste ... and telnet client ... and ...
<imbrandon> hrm if i split the screen how can i get to the other
<imbrandon> eg from top to bottom and back
<Jozo-> C-a tab
<Jozo-> and C-a Q removes split
<imbrandon> ok what about closiing a split
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ok
<Jozo-> C-a esc is scrollback
<imbrandon> oh rock on
* imbrandon is in love
<imbrandon> i dont even need a WM now
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> well if i could find a good cli mail app i could
<crimsun> (mutt)
<imbrandon> i bet if i figured out how to use mutt with imap and folders i would be happy
<Jozo-> alpine (pine with new licence and unicode support) is coming soon.
<imbrandon> heh i used pine way back in the day just for pico ( now i use nano ( and vim at select times )
<imbrandon> )
<imbrandon> but thats when i only got 5 mails a daya on a busy day
<imbrandon> now i get 800+ normaly
<imbrandon> so .procmail and imap are my friends
<imbrandon> .procmailrc*
<Jozo-> imho, pine is very good imap client.
* StevenK rebuilds wlassistant *again*.
<Lutin> giskard: ping
<Lure> StevenK: why do you bother with wlassistant - it will be droped from default instll in feisty
<StevenK> Lure: Then you tell all of the Kubuntu Edgy people that wlassistant won't work.
<StevenK> Lure: Go on, I *dare* you.
<Lure> StevenK: knetworkmanager does not work for them?
<Hobbsee> Lure: not for static IP's, etc
<StevenK> knetworkmanager and NetworkManager don't work for a lot of people.
<Hobbsee> Lure: and not for a whole lot of crads
<Hobbsee> *cards
<Hobbsee> Lure: that was why wlassistant was put in - it probably still needs to be there
<StevenK> Lure: So, by all means, tell them.
<Lure> StevenK: ok, so what is the problem that it does not work (it is pretty limited app anyway)?
<Hobbsee> Lure: yes it doesnt work for anyone.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> It certainly won't work for DHCP using networks.
<Hobbsee> Lure: i think, when we decided to put it in, that no one actually tested it first - or not much?  it wont connect to my network, even open (ie, not wpa)
<StevenK> It will work for static networks, if your default gateway doesn't reverse resolve.
<broonie> What are the chances of getting a fix for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nis/+bug/47815 into dapper?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47815 in nis "/usr/lib/yp/ypxfr produces segmentation fault" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<Lure> Hobbsee: Tonio_ did and he was fine with it - it also worked for me in Dapper - it may be that edgy broke something
<StevenK> I note wlassistant thinks all encrypted networks are WEP. This is stupid, but I'm not fixing that.
<Hobbsee> Lure: iv'e never even been able to get it to work under dapper, either, i dont think.  but clearly the edgy version is unusable
<StevenK> The 6 bugs in Launchpad agrees with Hobbsee.
* StevenK notes killing NetworkManager every 4 minutes or so is oddly theraputic.
<TheMuso> Meh. Just use /etc/network/interfaces and bring up/down interfaces as you need them.
<TheMuso> Thats all I do. WHy bother with some magic network utility that probably won't get it right anyway.
<pygi> Lure, n-m is not mature enough, neither is linux wireless stack mature enough
<StevenK> TheMuso: You tell you bug submitters that.
<Lure> pygi: but n-m is planned to be default in feisty - se network-roaming spec
<pygi> Lure, that will break a lot of stuff!
<pygi> Lure, url pls?
<Hobbsee> Lure: it's planned, but that doesnt mean that we have to remove all the old ways
<pygi> Lure, and anyway, giskard will bring n-m 0.7 to feisty
<Lure> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming
<pygi> but that doesn't mean that n/m will be more mature, and especially doesnt mean wireless stack will become mature overnight
<pygi> Hobbsee, we actually have to improve old ways
<pygi> we'll get tons of bug reports
<Lure> pygi: agree
<Hobbsee> pygi: indeed.  like making wlassistant work?  :P
<pygi> Hobbsee, that as well :P
<Hobbsee> pygi: which is where this discussion started :P
<pygi> Hobbsee, ok, ok, don't eat me :P
<pygi> so what doesn't work?
* Hobbsee eats pygi 
<pygi> ergh!
<Hobbsee> pygi: it doesnt work for any network that uses dhcp, it sounds like.  StevenK is fixing it
<Hobbsee> s/is fixing/has fixed/
<pygi> nice
<Hobbsee> seeing as the majority *do*, that's kinda bad
<pygi> Hobbsee, n-m will need some heavy patching again to work for 1% of population
<pygi> and so all wireless related packages will need
<Hobbsee> pygi: that being said, i use n-m all the time, on 2 machines, without a problem
<Hobbsee> they all need work, but i doubt we'll be removing the stuff that does work
<pygi> Hobbsee, I understand, yes, but that's you
<pygi> Hobbsee, they work for me as well, but after manually patching and fixing icon cache problem
<pygi> Hobbsee, regular users won't bother with stuff
<Hobbsee> i mean, a few that work for a wider group of people each - that's better than one works for a group of people, and too bad for the others
<Hobbsee> pygi: what iconcache problem?
<Hobbsee> pygi: did you file a bug in n-m for that?  the solution to that is to call dh_iconcache in debian/rules
<pygi> Hobbsee, the problem is that "n-m cannot locate resource bla bla" and then it won't start
<Hobbsee> ah
<pygi> ergh
<Hobbsee> hah
<pygi> Hobbsee, bug is filed
<Hobbsee> cool
<pygi> problem is that package doesnt work everytime
<pygi> (postinst that is)
<pygi> and that happens to a lot of people
<Hobbsee> indeed
<Hobbsee> it certainly needs work
<pygi> Hobbsee, I'm gonna call for some testing of 0.6.4 in Feisty, so we get some feedback
<pygi> this can be a serious mess if we don't put some extra work into it
<pygi> Hobbsee, and I think I'm still subscribed to all n-m bugs
<pygi> Hobbsee, what other packages you want me to follow?
<StevenK> Hah, I tested 0.6.4 in *Edgy* and didn't get past Keybuk.
<Hobbsee> pygi: sounds good.  are you meaning in kubuntu-land?
<pygi> Hobbsee, all...kubuntu and ubuntu
<Hobbsee> pygi: kdebase.  and kdelibs. you knew i was going to say that, didnt you :P
<Hobbsee> but mostly kdebase
<pygi> ofcourse I did, lol :P
<pygi> Hobbsee, isn't your first time you are saying this :P
<Hobbsee> pygi: hmmm?  no, probably not
<pygi> Hobbsee, as soon as I'm back from uni (I'm late anyway :P) we can assemble a call for testing all wireless thingies in existance in feisty ^_^
<Hobbsee> pygi: sure, but probably better to do that at a meeting.  and no sane person is running feisty anyway
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: im sane
<pygi> Hobbsee, who says that? :P
<gnomefreak> sortof
<Hobbsee> pygi: i do.
<pygi> Hobbsee, and what's wrong with being insane? :P
<Hobbsee> pygi: and most other people
<StevenK> [20:43]  < imbrandon> hahah no, upgrading my laptop to feisty
<StevenK> Oh look, Hobbsee is right.
<Hobbsee> pygi: nothing at all - i hear people enjoy every minute of it
* gnomefreak been on feisty
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: yes, well
* Hobbsee should try it, sometime after the merges
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Noo, stay good!
<Hobbsee> why should i?
<gnomefreak> other than a few bugs its ok for now im sure that will change soon
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: clearly they havent started merging X?
<gnomefreak> nope
<StevenK> Hrm. I wonder if Xorg 7.2 is out yet
<gnomefreak> nvidia was a little weird though. installing 2.6.19 i had to remove and install nvidia-glx to get it to work other than that i havent seen anything big yet. dbus has an issue (had) not sure if its still an issue
<animimotus> hi
<Hobbsee> heay
<Hobbsee> *heya
<animimotus> why can I find keypassx in Universe ?
<animimotus> like said here http://keepassx.sourceforge.net/downloads/
<animimotus> oops, keepassx ? oO
<animimotus> lol, I test
<animimotus> arf it's ok ^^
<animimotus> please, someone can make a good deb pour having the french traduction for Quanta+ ?
<animimotus> or a dependance
<animimotus> http://serge.bregliano.free.fr/blog/index.php/2006/11/03/76-quanta-plus-de-nouveau-en-francais
<zakame> hmm is feisty following deian's lead on the python-deps transition now? (python-policy thing)
<zakame> *debian
<animimotus> Gloubiboulga, someone ? ;)
<gnomefreak> zakame: that was done in edgy i thought
<gnomefreak> unless theres another change in the policy
<zakame> gnomefreak: just asking since I'm doing some merges
<Hobbsee> zakame: edgy did
<zakame> Hobbsee: oh k, trying a gr-wxgui build now, although I suspect it just needs a sync
<zul> hey
<Hobbsee> hey zul
<zul> hey Hobbsee how is it gong?
<Hobbsee> zul: good, and yourself?
<zul> good a bit tired
<zul> first day back at work you know how it is...
<Hobbsee> ah yes
<chillywi1ly> anyone know anything about the problem where gnome-keyring-manager sucks all available RAM + swap and then the OS is forced to kill it?
<chillywi1ly> it's really annoying
<chillywi1ly> :)
<joejaxx> did someone ping me?
<Kyral> Hey guys I know I don't package anymore, but whats the packaging policy for RubyGems?
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> how to request an update of a package for a new upstream release ?
<zul> launchpad
<bersace> zul: with a bug ?
<zul> yep
<bersace> is it possible to autoupdate a package for each release
<bersace> launchpad seems to be able to watch new upstream release of a product
<bersace> ?
<zakame> what again is the right process for requesting a sync?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zakame> yo bddebian
<zakame> what again is the right process for requesting a sync?
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<ajmitch> morning
<fernando> ajmitch: moin
<dooglus> !info ntp | Murrlin
<ubotu> ntp: Network Time Protocol: network utilities. In component main, is optional. Version 1:4.2.0a+stable-9ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 256 kB, installed size 464 kB
<Sp4rKy> hi motus
<Sp4rKy> please, i've an "out of the box" question
<Sp4rKy> if i've 2 repo in my sources.list with the same packages (& same version)
<Sp4rKy> how apt select the mirror for download ?
<LaserJock> it looks at the versions of the packages and picks the higher version
<LaserJock> unless you specifically tell it otherwise
<bhale> he said same version
<bhale> it is a pretty obscure question you would probably get the best answer by trying it
<Sp4rKy> i've try
<LaserJock> oh, sorry
<Sp4rKy> i'd switch the order of 2 mirrors in the sources.list, apt-get remove onepackage && apt-get clean && apt-get update && apt-get install thepackage
<Sp4rKy> and apt got the package from the same server twice
<LaserJock> so is this really true that Sun GPL'd Java?
<Sp4rKy> i think
<apokryphos> yes, see slashdot
<bhale> slashdot has been reporting it for weeks
<bhale> is not automatically credible
<bhale> but the Associated Press doesn't make up quotes from company execs most of the tiem
<LaserJock> I just read the Sun announcement
<LaserJock> not that it makes much sense to me
<Tonio_> hello dudes
<ajmitch> hi Tonio_
<zul> LaserJock: what you dont want to help the next chapter in history? ;)
<LaserJock> zul: hmm?
<zul> i was looking at the marketing crud
<Burgwork> it is all over sun.com, so I would say so
<Burgwork> apparently RMS was introduced with the words "open source"
<bhale> oh jeez
<ajmitch> did he walk off?
<bhale> i wish he'd get over himtself
<bhale> for code he wrote in the 80s
<LaserJock> zul: haha
<zul> http://www.stallman.org/harry-potter.html *sigh*
<LaserJock> http://www.stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
<LaserJock> that one is interesting
<zul> oh even better
<zul> http://www.stallman.org/extra/personal.html
<ajmitch> zul: such an interesting person
<zul> exactly...hey ajmitch how was the flight?
<ajmitch> long, boring, uneventful
<LaserJock> I'm sort of surprised he talked to the Sun people about Java
<zul> heh better than mine
<ajmitch> as expected
<ajmitch> why, how was yours?
<zul> well lets see the flight from chicago to ottawa sucked, the flight was 2 hours late, it was overbooked, the toilet didnt work, and they changed the gate 3 times
<ajmitch> ah
<zul> i didnt get out of the airport in ottawa until 1 in the morning
<ajmitch> worst I had was a 45 minute delay from auckland->christchurch
<ajmitch> which just meant that I was waiting around for 45 min in auckland airport instead of in christchurch
<ajmitch> gave me a chance to get some breakfast
<zul> cool
<LaserJock> hmmm
<ajmitch> hmm?
<LaserJock> Barry's nick change
<ajmitch> slightly strange
<bhale> he's a nut, what can you do
<dingaling> Hey
<LaserJock> hmpf
* bddebian gets no love
<LaserJock> gotta love bug reports that end with "I can't test anymore because I compiled it myself and don't use the packaged version anymore"
<bhale> or "i removed beagle"
<bhale> but that is just on irc, you dont get a bug
<LaserJock> oh man, that's worse then bddebian's nick change
<bhale> i dont even know who that is
<LaserJock> awesome, this is the best bug report ever. The entire description is: "n.a"
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: my nick was awesome
<LaserJock> hmmm, irc.gnome.org's got to use a port other then 6667
<crimsun> ask imbrandon for a shell, run irssi in passwd-protected proxy mode, and use an ssh tunnel
<LaserJock> crimsun: ohhhh
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't quite understand how it works but I'll look into it later
<LaserJock> irssi runs on both the machine acting as a proxy and the local machine?
<rgl> hello
<rgl> I want to have a newer version of web/trac, what is the correct way to push the changes to the ubuntu repository?
<LaserJock> rgl: newer in what release of Ubuntu?
<rgl> LaserJock, any?
<rgl> LaserJock, the upgrade is only viable to feisty?
<LaserJock> rgl: if the version you want is in Debian then it'll get synced
<LaserJock> once it's in Feisty you can perhaps request a backport to Edgy
<rgl> LaserJock, it is.  but the question is "when" :D
<LaserJock> it is in Debian?
<rgl> LaserJock, yes.  its at http://packages.debian.org/testing/web/trac
<LaserJock> then it should be in Feisty when the sync is done
<ajmitch> feisty has that version already
<rgl> ajmitch, why it doesn't show up at http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=trac ?
<ajmitch> because that site isn't always up to date
<rgl> ah ok
<rgl> how can I backport it to edgy?  I mean, how can I setup apt to download the sources from the feisty repo?
<zul> i dont think you want to do that quite just yet
<rgl> I want 0.10 now :D
<rgl> why shouldn't I zul ?
<zul> because fiesty just opened but what do i know
<zul> and it might break at some point
<rgl> I just need some help to setup apt to download the source package from fiesty :D
<LaserJock> rgl: just get it manually
<minghua> rgl: then go ask in #ubuntu, not here, it's simple, just modify /etc/apt/sources.list and do apt-get source
<LaserJock> it's not worth tweaking apt for one package
<rgl> ah ok thx
<minghua> LaserJock: IMO it's relatively safe if you know what you do, since you only need the deb-src line
<LaserJock> yeah, but for 1 package?
<zul> it would be easier to go to the archive and download it from there
<minghua> zul: yes, agreed
<zul> of course you would still have to know what you are doing
<minghua> LaserJock: I just don't really think it counts as "tweaking" :-)  never said it will be worth it. :-P
<LaserJock> ah, well
<LaserJock> so apparently the sun people are having a little Java chat in #open-source-java on oftc if anybody is interested
<minghua> cool, thanks LaserJock
<minghua> d'oh.  typed /quit instead of /part
<zul> meh..
<ajmitch> in the last few years, sun has managed to open up a reasonable amount of code
<ajmitch> with OOo & now java
<bhale> more than most
<ajmitch> even their niagara cpu designs
<ajmitch> which admittedly are less useful than straight software
* plugwash is guessing that you'd need a blooody big fpga to synthisize them onto
<plugwash> cpus are one area where off the shelf makes far more sense than roll your own
* minghua didn't know roll-your-own cpu is possible :-(
* rgl has build trac 0.10.2 :D
<bhale> rgl: does that support bzr yet
<rgl> bhale, I've just used subversion and mercurial (you have to install a repo plugin)
<bhale> well before you needed a patch and a plugin
<bhale> just a plugin would be fine
<bhale> ajmitch: how uninformative
<ajmitch> hm?
<bhale> java
<bhale> channel
<ajmitch> right
<Q-FUNK> java is a good blend of coffee.  otherwise... argh!
<nixternal> +1 Q-FUNK! ;)
<nixternal> colombian java, not sun java
<Q-FUNK> :)
<LaserJock> well, there are quite a few nice Java apps out there, it'd be nice to be able to put them in Universe at some point
<bhale> LaserJock++, i guess
<LaserJock> there are some really nice chemistry apps, at least 4 or 5. All GPL'd I think. But they only work with Sun's Java I think
<LaserJock> hmm, too many "I think"s in there
<minghua> I can count Jmol and JabRef as things I would like to see in Debian main / Ubuntu universe
<Q-FUNK> sun is finally coming to terms with the GPL
<Q-FUNK> about 10 years too late
<Q-FUNK> too bad
<tenshu> hi all
<tenshu> i have a problem with the upload to revu it tell me by mail that "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution."
<tenshu> why that?
<tenshu> (i have an launchpad acount, i'm in the contributors team)
<geser> got your key synced to revu?
<tenshu> dunno it syncing every day/week?
<geser> afaik only on request
<geser> ask the revu admins to get it synced
<tenshu> well so should i requesto to keyring@tiber.tauware.de ?
<minghua> tenshu: when did you put you key to the list?
<minghua> s/you key/your key/
<ajmitch> tenshu: also make sure that you're uploading to revu, not ubuntu
<tenshu> okai
<tenshu> i'll check this
<tenshu> ok my mistake, the host was set on ubuntu
<Adri2000> can someone explain me what are debian/dirs and debian/<package>.dirs files and what should they be used for?
<ajmitch> Adri2000: dh_installdirs
<ajmitch> it sets up directories you may need
<Adri2000> it's the same as a mkdir in debian/rules?
<LaserJock> basically
<LaserJock> just easier to use, IMO
<LaserJock> debian/dirs is used when the source package on produces 1 binary
<LaserJock> debian/<package>.dirs is used when the source package produces more then 1 binary so you can specify which package get the dir
<TheMuso> Wow. Java GPLd.
<Adri2000> LaserJock: ok
<tenshu> thanks to all of you and motu-fr team, my first 2 packages are now in REVU =)
<minghua> the main advantage of dh_installdirs over mkdir, IMO, is that your debian/rules is much cleaner why you need to create directories for multiple binary packages
<minghua> s/IMO/it seems to me/
<jdong> any good guides on packaging apps that are written in python (and include a python package/library)?
<mr_pouit> jdong: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy ?
<jdong> mr_pouit: ok, will take a look
<jdong> does the python module have to be split into a separate debian package?
<Adri2000> !info briquolo
<ubotu> briquolo: 3D BreakOut clone. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5.5-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 1540 kB, installed size 4260 kB
<siretart> jdong: it depends on the case. it doesn't make sense for every package
<Adri2000> briquolo is now in debian, the ubuntu package will be automatically replaced by the debian one?
<bhale> no
<jdong> siretart: I'm trying to package tovid as a learning experience...
<bhale> if there is an ubuntuX version there is not automatic overwrite
<Adri2000> it's a 0ubuntuX
<jdong> siretart: it has a libtovid, which it uses in its python scripts... AFAIK no other app uses its library
<siretart> Adri2000: if you want it to be overwritten, you need to request a sync manually. further updates in debian will be autosynced then, though
<siretart> jdong: splitting packages makes sense when you want to save archive space, because large parts are architecture independent, or you want to save lots of dependencies from the user. Or space for stuff he probably doesn't want
<jdong> siretart: ok, well in this case I guess it doesn't make sense to split the package at all
<jdong> it's all architecture independent, and one part is useless without the other
<Adri2000> siretart: ok, I will request a sync, the debian package is better, first the 5M data files are separated, and I think it will fix one bug reported in launchpad
<siretart> jdong: yeah, sounds sane
<minghua> Adri2000: there may be upgrade path you need to consider
<LaserJock> minghua: hehe, who cares about upgrade paths?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<minghua> but honestly I am not so sure what the stand is about universe package upgradeability these days
<ajmitch> it must be upgradeable or else
<siretart> a bug is a bug is a bug
<minghua> LaserJock: I, as a (relatively) long time Debian user, cares about it a lot
<ajmitch> since a single universe breakage can cause update-manager to fail
<siretart> which is imo a bug as well
<LaserJock> ajmitch: isn't that a bit of a bug itself?
<Adri2000> mhhh maybe I can request the sync and then if I see that the upgrade fails upload an ubuntuX to fix?
<minghua> Does a sync request still need to be acked by an MOTU?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<minghua> then Adri2000, are you an MOTU?
<Adri2000> minghua: no, not yet ^^
<minghua> I myself won't request a sync unless I tested the upgrade path
<Adri2000> I have just built the debs
<Adri2000> I will try to install them
<minghua> but you may find some other MOTU who agrees with you "sync first, test upgrade path" approach :-)
<Adri2000> but is it possible to take a debian package, patch it for ubuntu and upload it (if the debian package is not yet in ubuntu)? I thought it was better to sync first
<minghua> Adri2000: are you talking about briquolo or not?  you just said it's already in ubuntu, but with different packaging
<Adri2000> yep, but the debian package is different of the ubuntu one, at least because it has a -data package
<minghua> and for the general question -- if the debian package doesn't build / doesn't install on ubuntu, then there is no point to sync it first, just patch and upload
<Adri2000> err, you said it was different, /me should read the end also
<minghua> Adri2000: that's the upgrade path I am talking about
<Adri2000> ok ok
<minghua> and why many people here encourage people who what to add software in ubuntu to try getting it in Debian first
<minghua> Adri2000: in any case I think contacting the ubuntu briquolo uploader/maintainer first is a good idea
<Adri2000> no problem during the installation of the debs (having the ubuntu package installed)
<Adri2000> yep, ping Tonio_
<imbrandon> oogle.com/ig?hl=enoogle.com/ig?hl=en
<Q-FUNK> http://seenonslash.com/node/761
<Adri2000> minghua: seems that a fix is needed for briquolo, the .desktop file doesn't work
<Adri2000> it is installed in /usr/share/games/applications/ o_O
<Tonio_> Adri2000: pong
<Adri2000> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> yop ;)
<Adri2000> it's about briquolo
<Adri2000> debian has a package
<Tonio_> yes
<Tonio_> we also have a package
<Tonio_> what is the problem ?
<Adri2000> because it's better to use the same package as in debian?
<Adri2000> for this kind of package
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yes it is but when I packaged it there was no debian package
<Tonio_> now debian maintains it, it'll be sync with debian
<Tonio_> no problem at this point
<Adri2000> ok, you agree with that
<Tonio_> sure
<Tonio_> the point is I didn't get the package to ubuntu right
<Tonio_> into debian sorry
<Adri2000> and someone else did
<Tonio_> yep and that duplicates, which is not good
<Tonio_> but well where is the fault ?
<Tonio_> should I package for debian instead of ubuntu or should debian packagers get a look at ubuntu before packaging from scratch ?
<Tonio_> I think the second option is better
<fdoving> as ubuntu use debian as a base, and not the other way around, the first is better for both. :)
<Tonio_> fdoving: technically yes, but not "politically"
<Adri2000> but maybe it's not easier to maintain a package in debian than uploading a package to revu
<Tonio_> not in my opinion at least
<Tonio_> I merge all my patches with upstream and I work close to the kde-extras debian packaging team
<Tonio_> but if the goal is to get the packages in debian in the first place, what is the need of revu then ?
<Adri2000> anyway, Tonio_, seems that the debian package needs a fix for the desktop file (and maybe something(s) else, I haven't looked at everything yet), can I take care of that?
<Tonio_> Adri2000: sure
<Adri2000> ok
<Tonio_> Adri2000: my package has a patch for the desktop file
<Tonio_> all my packages have since upstream desktop files are generally incomplete
<Adri2000> a patch for what exactly?
<fdoving> nite.
<Adri2000> because the problem here is that the .desktop file is installed in /usr/share/games/applications/
<Tonio_> Adri2000: correct category, description etc...
<Tonio_> nite fdoving
<Adri2000> ok, not the same problem
<Tonio_> Adri2000: what is your issue then ?
<Adri2000> it doesn't appear in the menu
<Adri2000> and I don't see anything else in this directory
<Tonio_> Adri2000: hum sorry no this package doesn't have a patch from me
<Tonio_> I got them merged with upstream so I removed it
<Tonio_> Adri2000: really ?
<Adri2000> yeah, I don't know if this directory works in debian or if it's a mistake
<Tonio_> let me have a look
<Tonio_> Adri2000: the default desktop file works for me
<Tonio_> misses an icon though
<Tonio_> but I can see it in the menus
<Adri2000> in the package from debian?
<Tonio_> Adri2000: tried to run kbuildsycoca
<Tonio_> ?
<Tonio_> Adri2000: no the ubuntu package, but it is default
<Adri2000> I'm talking of the package from debian :p
<Tonio_> I don't touch anything on that point
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yes but there shouldn't ve any difference
<Tonio_> Adri2000: where is installed the desktop file in your case ?
<Adri2000> /usr/share/games/applications/briquolo.desktop
<Tonio_> Adri2000: /usr/share/applications/briquolo.desktop
<Tonio_> that's what I have
<Adri2000> Tonio_: I think the difference is here in the package from debian:
<Tonio_> and that's the default in the build system
<Adri2000> --datadir=\$${prefix}/share/games
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yes there is the problem$
<Adri2000> your package isn't installed in the games/ directory?
<Adri2000> directories*
<Tonio_> Adri2000: nope
<Tonio_> it is installed as a "normal" application
<Tonio_> all files go to their standard directorys (/usr/bin /usr/share etc...)
<Adri2000> ok, that's the difference with the package from debian :) I will fix the location of the .desktop file and I think it will be ok
<Tonio_> Adri2000: yup
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<luisbg> hey LaserJock
<imbrandon> LaserJock: did i give you the horatio login info ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yep
<imbrandon> LaserJock, kk, couldent rember
<imbrandon> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-14
<ailean> can anyone tell me how to submit changes to source for approval?
<crimsun> what sort of changes to source, and for whom?
<ailean> mainly typos to start with, i'm just starting out
<ailean> for ubuntu
<minghua> ailean: usually opening a bug in LP would work
<Sp4rKy> ailean: change in the source of a programme ?
<ailean> minghua, opening a bug isn't fixing it though
<ailean> Sp4rKy, yes
<Sp4rKy> if this , you have to send you patch to upstream
<Sp4rKy> s/this/yes
<ailean> Sp4rKy, any guides to that?
<minghua> ailean: sure, but pasting your patch in the bug report has a good chance to fix it
<Sp4rKy> ailean: nop
<ailean> right
<Sp4rKy> ailean: if you software is in ubuntu repository, you have to open a bug at lp
<crimsun> ailean: did you ``apt-get source foo''?
<ailean> Sp4rKy, i'm looking at trying to fix the already open bugs
<Sp4rKy> and if you've made some diff/patch, you have to send them to upstream
<Sp4rKy> and wait for upstream fix
<Sp4rKy> ailean: k, so i you fix something
<Sp4rKy> post the patch on lp, and mail it to the maintainer of the package and to upstream
<ailean> ok, cool
<ailean> cheers
<Sp4rKy> np
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: i'm right with the way for fix bugs ?
<crimsun> process-wise, essentially.
<Sp4rKy> k
<crimsun> I was under the impression that ailean was asking about how to generate a debdiff, but perhaps I misinterpreted the question
* lupine_85 is waiting on a fix to be commited to a package
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: mhhh, maybe ...
<Sp4rKy> don't know
<crimsun> lupine_85: LP #?
* lupine_85 hunts
<lupine_85> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rutilt/+bug/68454
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68454 in rutilt "rutilt_0.12-0ubuntu1 fails to build on Ubuntu's build servers..." [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<lupine_85> It's just bypassing some really stupid checks in the configure.sh
<Sp4rKy> :p
<lupine_85>  /really, really/ stupid checks
<rmjb> is there a vmware or xen image of feisty available to test the functioning of packages? I already have the pbuilder for feisty
<joejaxx> rmjb: how do you have a pbuilder for feisty?
<rmjb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<pygi> joejaxx, he just installs debootstrap from feisty? :P
<joejaxx> last time i checked here was not a bootstrap script for feisty
<rmjb> it came out last week
<joejaxx> rmjb: i know about pbuilder :)
<crimsun> that comment for the second comment inspires such confidence
<crimsun> "This patch bumps to -ubuntu2 version and fixes the problem (I think)"
<rmjb> on the end it describes how to have multiple pbuilders installed
<joejaxx> rmjb: i know how to use pbuilder
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i was just saying
<pygi> joejaxx, just install deboostrap from feisty :P
<joejaxx> last time i tried to bootstrap feisty
<jdong> joejaxx: backport debootstrap
<crimsun> lupine_85: does it actually fix the problem in an sbuild?
<joejaxx> there was not a script for it
<lupine_85> crimsun: yes
<joejaxx> jdong: maybe i should do that
<jdong> joejaxx: you need deboostrap from feisty... :)
<joejaxx> jdong:  i will backport it
<crimsun> lupine_85: got the sbuild log conveniently?
* crimsun removes his "backport" highlight
<joejaxx> that higlights your client?
<crimsun> yes
<lupine_85> oh, sbuild != "source build" as in a generic thing, it's a program. Sorry, no idea if it does that
<crimsun> I have a highlight for each LP team
<joejaxx> oh wow
<joejaxx> ok
<lupine_85> and trying to install it brings up exim dependencies? wtf?
<joejaxx> hey
<joejaxx> someone on feisty
<joejaxx> can someone tar the debootstrap source
<crimsun> lupine_85: yes, due to the "exim4 | mail-transport-agent" alternative
<rmjb> so... is there a xen or vmware image for feisty for testing?
<crimsun> joejaxx: just install feisty's debootstrap
<joejaxx> oh nevermind i can get it from the web
<rmjb> joejaxx: get the feisty debootstrap here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<joejaxx> rmjb: i know what debootstrap is
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> joejaxx, or dget the dsc :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :)
<rmjb> joejaxx: on that page there's links to the debootstrap for the different versions of ubuntu... they're all there
<jdong> joejaxx: why do you need tarring at all?
<jdong> joejaxx: use packages.ubuntu.com/debootstrap to find the .dsc
<jdong> and dpkg-buildpackage it
<joejaxx> rmjb: i need the source not the actual debs
<joejaxx> jdong: that is what i am going to do
<joejaxx> 16:12 < joejaxx> oh nevermind i can get it from the web
<joejaxx> lol
<lupine_85> crimsun: ah, so it's my fault? :D. regardless, i'm certain that this patch fixes the problem (which was that the kernel sources for the old kernel running on the build machines wasn't getting it's sources/headers installed)
<crimsun> lupine_85: "fault" has nothing to do with it
<lupine_85> i.e. I have the wrong mail transport agent set on my computer
<joejaxx> jdong: after i backport it where can i submit it for edgy backport?
<jdong> joejaxx: launchpad/products/edgy-backports
<lupine_85> crimsun: hmm, however, running it in sbuild wouldn't give any useful info as to whether it'll work on the build PCs or not, though
<jdong> joejaxx: I was considering that backport for a short while now
<joejaxx> so i just attach the source with the bug?
<jdong> no need to attach the source
<crimsun> lupine_85: if you attempt to replicate the environment, it should
<jdong> just file a bug that you want Feisty debootstrap
<jdong> and saying that you've tested it in edgy helps too in this case
<lupine_85> to replicate that environment, I'd need to switch my running kernel to 2.6.15.7
<joejaxx> oh that is the purpose of me backporting it
<jdong> in fact, I'll approve the backport as soon as you file it... :)
<crimsun> lupine_85: vm image
<joejaxx> jdong: ok
<joejaxx> :)
<jdong> I've been using feisty debootstrap in Edgy for a while now
<joejaxx> jdong: does the version stay the same or do i increment it
<jdong> joejaxx: you decrement it
<joejaxx> oh ok
<jdong> joejaxx: using ~yourname1
<joejaxx> ubuntu7 then
<joejaxx> yourname?
<jdong> ubuntu8~yourname1
<joejaxx> ahok
<jdong> the ~ operator makes the version number less than a version without ~
<joejaxx> this should be interesing
<joejaxx> jdong: i see
<joejaxx> well hold on let me just restore my key on this computer so i can sign the package
<jdong> why are you signing the package?
<jdong> I don't want to see your package?
<jdong> (wow that sounded wrong...)
<jdong> I'll take your word for it that it builds and works
<joejaxx> jdong: good practise
<jdong> mainly because I've already tried it
* jdong updates his feisty prevu environment
* lupine_85 scratches his head at getting vmware working on his PC
<joejaxx> lupine_85: on edgy?
<lupine_85> yeah, but not normal edgy
<joejaxx> oh
<lupine_85> 32bit userland, 64bit kernel
<joejaxx> interesting
<jdong> lupine_85: what on earth?
<lupine_85> it's useful for jumping in and out of 64bit chroots
<jdong> lupine_85: I don't think you can compile 64-bit kernel modules with a 32-bit gcc?
<lupine_85> I usually work in 32 bits
<jdong> lupine_85: find a way to get 64-bit gcc to run then :D
<lupine_85> that's what my 64 bit chroots do (/lib/modules/`uname -r` is linked to my 64-bit chroot)
<jdong> like a 64-bit chroot
<lupine_85> I can run gcc in 64 bits, but I can't run vmware-config.pl because it's no in the chroot ;)
<jdong> interesting....
<lupine_85> yeah. maybe qemu will be my friend.
<lupine_85> the hardships I've gone through for this package...
* crimsun chuckles
<crimsun> until you lose a week of sleep the week of a release working on one package, I think "hardships" is something out of a book :-P
<lupine_85> 2 days of sleep?
<crimsun> try 6
<lupine_85> the nights just before UVF
<crimsun> see breezy's vlc
<enyc> I wonder if fiesty's multiverse will come frem debian 'testing' or 'unstable'
<lupine_85> argh, silly GUI installer
<crimsun> enyc: unstable where applicable
<enyc> crimsun: ??where applicable??
<enyc> crimsun: explain ;-)
<enyc> erm actuallf I meant universe
<enyc> not multiverse
<crimsun> yes. ones that aren't in it (either because of removals or because of a different origin) can't come from unstable.
<enyc> crimsun: i see.. so are built as ubuntu-only pkg
<crimsun> yes, sometimes causing much weeping and gnashing of teeth
<enyc> crimsun: ??
<enyc> crimsun:lots of problems there?
<crimsun> enyc: generally, no
<enyc> crimsun: what sorts of things happen?
<lupine_85> ...only DVD-sized ISOs available...?
<crimsun> we hand-merge the problem ones
<enyc> crimsun: i wondr what causes problems ;-)
<lupine_85> thank Mercury for 800KB/sec downloads :)
<enyc> ;-)
* lupine_85 wonders if using the GUI installer would have been faster
<joejaxx> yeap it works
* joejaxx goes to file  bug
<lupine_85> nope, alternate install cd will be faster... 3 minutes to go before it's downloaded, and i'm not even into the GUI's desktop yet
<joejaxx> Bug #71716
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71716 in edgy-backports "Request: To backport Debootstrap 0.3.3.0ubuntu8 to Edgy" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71716
<joejaxx> jdong: ^
<joejaxx> bbl dinner
<lupine_85> meh. bedtime. I'll fix0r it tomorrow sometime
<rmjb> will gpl java make it into feisty?
<rmjb> will it make it into edgy?
<Burgwork> rmjb: depends on when we get a buildable version
<Burgwork> and no
<Burgwork> unless somebody backports it
<rmjb> will that mean it's the end of gcj?? or that still has value?
<pygi> Burgwork, complete java will be open sourced at end of march, next year if I'm not mistaken
<Burgwork> rmjb: that is a question that nobody really knows right now
<minghua> I think for now the question is which one, feisty or GPLed Java, will be released first
<pygi> minghua, presumably Java
<Burgwork> depends on how fast Sun gets it out there
<Burgwork> it is likely to miss SUSE 10.2  (due in Dec) and FC7 (Due in march)
<minghua> pygi: yes, that comment was kind of tongue-in-the-cheek
<rmjb> wonder if/how this hurts mono
<pygi> rmjb, the novell & ms might cause mono a pain
<pygi> not the java itself
<rmjb> well for java to hurt mono it'll have to get wider desktop adoption, not just on linux... sure it'll be in most desktop distros in a year, but not in Vista... maybe not Mac... only time will tell though
<rmjb> but it's fun to speculate
<LaserJock> hmm, I hadn't thought of java and mono as being competitors
<rmjb> well .NET is supposed to be a Java killer
<pygi> rmjb, not really
<pygi> MS doesn't see a threat in Java(at least they say so)
<rmjb> well... it *was* supposed to be
<pygi> right :P
<jdong> heh, python takes this whole "floor division" thing too literally :D
<jdong> it is actually floor division, not divide-and-truncate
<joejaxx> is ther ea way to see all the bugs i have submitted?
<joejaxx> only that back port one i submitted came up
<joejaxx> i have submitted bugs before
<minghua> joejaxx: go to your LP page, click on bugs, then click on submitted
<joejaxx> i am on the reported page right now
<joejaxx> but it only shows that bp bug
<minghua> hmm...
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> i submitted a bug about the usb device permissions
<joejaxx> on dappaer
<joejaxx> that does not show up
<joejaxx> dapper*
<minghua> have the bug number?
<joejaxx> no i do not  :\
<minghua> package name?
<joejaxx> i can probably loko for it
<joejaxx> look*
<minghua> I have a suspicion that you used two different LP ids
<joejaxx> minghua: how whould that have happened?
<minghua> using two emails, for example
<minghua> s/emails/email addresses/
<joejaxx> i have always used the same email
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> minghua: i was also subscribed to a fluxbox0.9>1.0rc2 sync bug
<joejaxx> that does not come up
<joejaxx> Bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<joejaxx> that is funny
<minghua> joejaxx: you mean bug 62120?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62120 in fluxbox "Please sync fluxbox 0.9.15.1+1.0rc2-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62120
<joejaxx> ahh yes
<joejaxx> i was subscribed to that
<joejaxx> because i was going to package fluxbox 1.0rc2
<joejaxx> but found out someone requested sync
<minghua> joejaxx: that doesn't show up because it's fixed
<joejaxx> is there no way to show bugs i have submitted even if they were fixed?
<minghua> joejaxx: to show all bugs you're subscribed, click the "advanced search", choose all status, then click search again
<minghua> (maybe some LP guru know a better solution)
<minghua> but I do what I can to navigate through LP labyrinth :-P
<joejaxx> it comes up :D
<joejaxx> minghua: thanks
<joejaxx> minghua: wow i feel stupid
<joejaxx> i had tha bug right on my wiki page haha
<joejaxx> that*
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> there's an internet cafe here that has an 80 seat gaming lab
<jdong> would a freeload-wifi script be multiverse material? :D
<jdong> or acceptable in the Ubuntu repos at all? :D
<crimsun> depends on the license
<Simon80> lol, freeload-wifi?
<Simon80> of your own creation?
<jdong> my own creation
<jdong> I'd license it however... GPL most likely
<Simon80> the point of which is to connect to open access points?
<Simon80> I'm just asking out of curiosity, by the way
<Simon80> though, i think for that sort of connecting, networkmanager or ifplugd can do it
<jdong> well, it's an automatic script that performs the steal-a-MAC-and-IP hack to get on Wayport access points
<Simon80> Wayport?
<Simon80> ok, cooler sounding
<Simon80> :)
<jdong> Simon80: the pay system that hotels and airports use?
<jdong> the DHCP, then get stuck in a portal system?
<superm1> steal a mac as in sniff for a mac in use and set your interface to it?
<jdong> superm1: something like that ;-)
<jdong> good old ngrep, nmap
<Simon80> sounds illegal ;)
<superm1> hehe, i've gotten online at an airport that way twice
<joejaxx> any kernel hackers here?
<jdong> Simon80: so? aircrack-ng is "illegal" :)
<superm1> you have to battle with the person who really has that mac for a little bit though until you win and get to use it
<Simon80> no, just the method of use
<crimsun> joejaxx: a few.
<jdong> superm1: yeah, I do it so often that I have scripted it
<Simon80> not the app itself... shouldn't be at least, you never know in the US
<jdong> err, I mean I'm hired to AUDIT wayport systems so often....
<Simon80> lol
<superm1> hehe lol
<jdong> Simon80: ain't that the truth? ;-)
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am going to need some for fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> lol
<crimsun> "need some"?
<superm1> well if you dont get this in multiverse, i'd like to take a peak at it at some point either way :)
<joejaxx> in the upcoming weeks
<joejaxx> crimsun: kernel hackers
<jdong> superm1: it's in the works right now
<jdong> :)
<crimsun> joejaxx: you don't just randomly call upon kernel hackers on your convenience
<Simon80> ain't what the truth? what I said about the code legality?
<joejaxx> crimsun: i know
<jdong> Simon80: the in the US comment :D
<Simon80> yeah
<jdong> :-/
<joejaxx> i mean i am going to need their help
<crimsun> joejaxx: can you be more precise?
<Simon80> ok, hehe
<Simon80> I choose you, kernelhackachu
<jdong> lol
<jdong> just don't shoot lightning bolts
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am going to need to have a cell processor supported kernel built
<jdong> so... what is the policy on universe/multiverse and stuff like this?
<jdong> clearly I gotta think of a good legal way of describing it
<Simon80> my kernelhackachu shoots bolts of pure information
<joejaxx> i think cell processors were added some times ago to upstream if i am not mistaken
<jdong> but other than that....
<crimsun> joejaxx: you don't need kernel hackers for that; you need to integrate what has been done upstream.
<crimsun> joejaxx: right, much of the work exists already
<Simon80> jdong: I don't think it matters what the app is for, it probably can be in universe
<Simon80> rather than multiverse
<jdong> hehe :)
<joejaxx> crimsun: my area of expertise is not in kernels :\
<superm1> how about you title it,  "Don't steal this wifi-script"
<Simon80> but I'm not qualified to say
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> superm1: hehe :)
<crimsun> joejaxx: feisty's already shipping 2.6.19-rc; what's lacking?
<joejaxx> crimsun: the kernel might need to be modified
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am not the one to do that
<jdong> superm1: aww, I've been developing it under codename barnacle....
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> joejaxx: the proper place to do that is upstream
<superm1> hey jdong, i forgot to follow up with you on backporting the edgy mythtv to dapper.  can you get around to that at some point?
<jdong> (although in all reality it's a lot more nasty than a barnacle)
<superm1> haha
<jdong> superm1: yeah sure, continue poking me or another backporter at 5 second intervals
<jdong> :)
<crimsun> oh geez.
<jdong> I'll get to it tomorrow or Wednesday
<superm1> well you know i figured its been a few weeks and all :)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: what relevance does fluxbuntu have to cell processors?
<superm1> awesome
<jdong> superm1: hint: the guy who said oh geez realized that I just bought him a free ticket for spam :D
<jdong> lol
<jdong> j/k
<crimsun> jdong: from the depths of hell I stab at thee
<jdong> crimsun: ooh, shakespeare! ;-)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: running it on a cell based arch
<ajmitch> joejaxx: well obviously, but that's more for any distro, not just a derivative
<ajmitch> since you'd need probably need to build the whole arch for it, if it can't use the ppc build
<ajmitch> and I'm failing to see how fluxbuntu overlaps with cell
<superm1> has it been established if ppc apps can directly run on the cell or if they need to be compiled for cell?
* jdong writes a readme file for barnacle
<superm1> considering its a ppc based arch
<jdong> would anyone like to suggest some good wording?
<jdong> ;-)
<superm1> "This script will allow you to test the security of access points at airports and hotels"
<jdong> "Barnacle is an automated script to test for a common vulnerability WI-FI pay-for-access hotspots."
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> :D
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> ie
<joejaxx> wireless infiltration
<jdong> joejaxx: quiet you!
<Simon80> how can that work, though? wouldn't 2 compies with same mac address cause screwuppage/
<Simon80> ?
<jdong> Simon80: it's wifi
<jdong> Simon80: the AP has no idea that it's two systems spoofing the same MAC
<joejaxx> lol
<superm1> well when i did it, i did fight back and forth with someone until it was clear they gave up
<jdong> Simon80: if this was tried on a wired network, the switch would scream bloody murder
<superm1> since my second wifi card didnt see any more packets coming from their card
<jdong> superm1: it causes tremendous (50-60%) packet loss for both sides
<joejaxx> ajmitch: pm?
<jdong> and RST packets on any connection that lasts for more than a good 5 seconds
<superm1> yea thats what i experienced
<jdong> but still, it works
<Simon80> lol
<superm1> especially once they give up:)
<Simon80> that's nice and evil
<jdong> best of all, you probably will frustrate the other guy :)
<jdong> and they'll pack up and call customer service bitching :D
<Simon80> I don't like it, there is a victim
<jdong> Simon80: there is a victim :-/
<jdong> which is why this is a security auditing tool
<superm1> dont call him a victim.  that makes him sound innocent.  he's a culprit of the pay for wifi scam going on at airports
<jdong> (and which is why you don't bittorrent or dist-upgrade while sharing an IP)
<jdong> sharing used very broadly here :D
<Simon80> superm1: lol, I agree, dammit\
<superm1> what i dont get is why the smaller airports will include wifi for free and then the bigger ones charge
<jdong> "Barnacle is an automated script used to share a MAC and IP address with a buddy"
<superm1> hehe
<joejaxx> haha
<ajmitch> joejaxx: if you wish
<superm1> s/buddy/unknown buddy/
<Simon80> because the smaller airports are run by people and not bureaucratobots
<jdong> superm1: I've actually seen a case where this triggered XP's "duplicate machine detected"
<jdong> which shut off their network card
<jdong> :)
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> that could explain the other user "giving up"
<Simon80> linux > winXP
<superm1> very convenient then
<jdong> linux doesn't care if you're sharing an IP :D
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> so is this script published somewhere? it's less work than doing research
<jdong> Simon80: I'm polishing it up right now
<Simon80> err... my focus switch is fucked, and I'm too lazy to restart X
<jdong> Simon80: I got a semi-working proof-of-concept
<jdong> I wanna tidy it up, and automate it a bit more
<Simon80> yeah
<jdong> then I'll push a bzr branch of it somewhere
<superm1> well if you have it finished up by this sunday, i should be flying on sunday
<superm1> and can test it out of midway airport in chicago
<jdong> hehe
<jdong> I have two local bookstores/cafes that use this system
<jdong> so plenty of testage
<superm1> very nice then
<jdong> :)
<jdong> muahaha
<jdong> it's freakin unfair though... I pay near 4 bucks for a cup of coffee
<jdong> and they charge $10 for 4 hours of internet access
<superm1> wow
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> (this particular wayport system has another bug that the two DNS servers and the backup router MAC are all whitelisted for internet access)
<jdong> so if you steal one of those, there's no real victim :)
<Telroth_Plushie|> well
<superm1> how did you figure out the backup router mac though?
<jdong> which clears it ethically in my mind
<jdong> superm1: there was nobody at the bookstore
<jdong> and 5 systems returned an ARPING
<superm1> ah bingo
<jdong> all with cisco MACs
<jdong> and reporting either Cisco or embedded Linux firmware
* jdong hugs nmap
* superm1 hugs ettercap
<Telroth_Plushie|> someone should get sattilite internet, and then broadcast a wifi signal into an airport, the airport can't block it legally :)
* Simon80 wishes all this networking stuff was less confusing
<jdong> superm1: ettercap has some really mean tricks up its sleeve
<jdong> :)
<superm1> i made the mistake of experimenting with it in the office for the first time when i was sitting in cube farm
<superm1> and executed a mitm attack between a wifi and ethernet interface
<superm1> i was hearing complaints for the next 5 hours
<superm1> all across the office
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> lol
<jdong> yeah, I started pressing ettercap buttons while hooked up to a hotel lobby ethernet jack
<superm1> it was fairly cool though to run aimsniff on it and just watch some of the stuff people talked about at work
<jdong> I had no clue what I was doing
<jdong> but I started overhearing front desk calls
<Simon80> you script kiddies
<jdong> and they were all about the network
<superm1> haha
<jdong> the clerks were saying "have you tried unplugging and replugging the cable"
<jdong> and I was like oh crap
<jdong> and quietly packet up
<ajmitch> why kids shouldn't be allowed to play with these toys
<Simon80> jdong: winXP - the alibi OS
<jdong> lol
<jdong> Simon80: my laptops don't flaunt their Linux OS
<Simon80> eh?
<superm1> ajmitch, you really dont have any stories about playing with networking in places you shouldnt be?
<jdong> Simon80: I learned that when TSA started inspecting laptops
<jdong> Simon80: I got a nice comprehensive search because my laptop wasn't booting Windows
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> fucking antitrust
<jdong> I had a non-usplash CLI ubuntu setup at the time
<Simon80> how can you not "flaunt" it
<jdong> bad decision :)
<Simon80> hide grub menu?
<ajmitch> superm1: I generally don't try & break the world
<jdong> Simon80: hide grub, boot windows :)
<jdong> boot menu for that other OS :)
<superm1> ajmitch, hehe
<Simon80> what do you mean by boot menu for that other OS?
<jdong> Simon80: mr. F8; BIOS boot menu
<Simon80> the most I can think of is set windows as default grub entry, hide grub menu like, 3 secs
<superm1> i've had TSA look at the ubuntu sticker on my laptop, and ask me what it was, but never give me trouble.  jdong what kind of comprehensive search did they put you through?
<jdong> Simon80: I've got multiple bootable partitions
<Simon80> ah
<jdong> Simon80: I dd different ones to the active boot partition depending on the situation
<Simon80> my BIOS doesn't give me that level of power :(
<Simon80> ...ah
<Hobbsee> what's TSA?
<jdong> superm1: they pulled me off to the side and checked all my carry-ons
<Simon80> US transport safety admin
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<jdong> superm1: and I had to explain what Linux was, and it wasn't evil
<Simon80> lol, hi
<jdong> superm1: they forced me to bring up a GUI environment
<Simon80> linux: the evil OS
<superm1> wow
<Simon80> oh the horror!
<Telroth_Plushie|> ...
<jdong> fortunately I had GNOME installed
<Simon80> wtf?
<Telroth_Plushie|> what airports do you go to?
<jdong> if I didn't, I have no idea where I would've been
<superm1> so what if you didnt have a GUI, what would you have done !
<jdong> Telroth_Plushie|: metro detroit, that time
<Simon80> why does a GUI env have any relevance?
<jdong> Simon80: gui looks non-terrorist?
<minghua> these kind of stories seem common these days
<Telroth_Plushie|> i ran three linux laptops through two different airports last month
<jdong> Simon80: shell prompt seem more hacker-ish?
<Telroth_Plushie|> nobody even opened them
<Simon80> jdong: makes my blood boil
<minghua> I just read one about getting arrested for 24 hours because of a ball made of rubber bands
<Simon80> read that, minghua
<Simon80> also bad
<jdong> superm1: I have no idea what would've happened if I didn't install X on that system
<jdong> superm1: and I almost didn't too
<Simon80> what'd they say, anyway?
<Simon80> how did they indicate that a GUI was required to not be a terrorist
<jdong> superm1: it was an embedded linux coprocessor for our robot (USFIRST competition)...
<Simon80> ..........grrrrr!
<superm1> ah i see
<jdong> Simon80: it's retarded, I know
<jdong> Simon80: it puzzled me just as much
<jdong> superm1: that box needed uclibc and that's about it....
<Simon80> makes me sooo mad, moreso that you were using it for FIRST
<jdong> superm1: but I decided to give it a full Ubuntu install
<superm1> well good thing then
<jdong> Simon80: I think it was the fact that I was travelling with an entire FIRST team that they finally let me off
<jdong> Simon80: these TSA guys were like panicking, thinking they nabbed a terrorist :D
<Telroth_Plushie|> jdong, should've asked to see a search warrent :P
<jdong> Telroth_Plushie|: I was afraid arguing with them would've lead to more trouble
<jdong> oh well
<jdong> back to coding barnacles
<superm1> yay for the rest of us people who want to test the security of waypoints :)
<Telroth_Plushie|> what's the best tool for cracking wifi encryption?
<Simon80> aircrack-ng???
<Telroth_Plushie|> airsnort still any good?
<Telroth_Plushie|> havne't heard of that one, will have to try it.
<Telroth_Plushie|> any other suggestions?
<imbrandon> Telroth_Plushie|, how does that pertain to ubuntu development ?
<Telroth_Plushie|> imbrandon, it didn't, but when jdong mentioned barnacles, it made me wonder if there were any good tools for it.
<Telroth_Plushie|> sry if i shouldn't have asked here.
<Simon80> there's an -offtopic chan
<Simon80> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQECwm3erEs&mode=related&search=
<chillywi1ly> um, yea maybe you should use it
<Simon80> use what?
<Hobbsee> use the offtopic channel, i expect
<Simon80> haha, yeah, good point
<Simon80> but I was searching for a video relevant to earlier TSA discussion in this chan, and I sort of compromised with that irrelevant link
<jdong> imbrandon: sorry, I guess I started all the OT talk when I asked my question about universe inclusion policies....
<imbrandon> ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: it is a useful script though ;-)
<zakame> hi all
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> yo imbrandon
<zakame> refresh me: what's the right process for requesting a sync?
<zakame> file a bug on said package with request, then subscribe ubuntu-archive to it?
<imbrandon> make sure it builds, installs and removes clean and file a bug, get a MOTU to ack it if your not one, and subscribe U-A
<imbrandon> yea
<crimsun> yes. Make sure you include all relevant new changelog entries with acks to override Ubuntu changes if necessary.
<zakame> ah kk
<crimsun> and since you're a MOTU, that's not a prob.
<zakame> i'm doing gr-wxgui now
<Hobbsee> zakame: there's a script that will do mos tof that, if you're interested
<zakame> Hobbsee: hmm grab-merge.sh?
<Hobbsee> zakame: requestsync, actually
<Hobbsee> zakame: w.u.c/DeveloperResources
<zakame> Hobbsee: oh cool!
<Hobbsee> zakame: very :)
<zakame> (give-thanks Hobbse crimsun imbrandon)
<crimsun> Yes.
<crimsun> sorry, too much ML
<crimsun> err, Prolog
<Hobbsee> zakame: and pitti
<Hobbsee> zakame: he wrote most of it.  oh, and TheMuso
<zakame> (give-thanks pitti TheMuso)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Simon80> omg, finally, I found the video I was after
<Simon80> this is with regards to that TSA discussion from forever ago
<Simon80> http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54
<Simon80> for those who weren't around, TSA sees linux CLI boot up on laptop and takes jdong aside for extra searching, then gets all uppity on him till he shows them a gui
<Simon80> so, hopefully, that explains why I went to all this trouble to find that video :(
<imbrandon> jwhitlark, welcome to the universe chan :)
<Simon80> haha
<jwhitlark> heh.
<superm1> hey imbrandon
<jwhitlark> I feel a They Might Be Giants song coming on...
<imbrandon> ello superm1
<zakame> lol
<jwhitlark> imbrandon, so is devel for core?
<imbrandon> yea, for the most part
<imbrandon> there is overlap but mostly
<ajmitch> there are some which we worship & grovel before, like imbrandon
<jwhitlark> k, I'll take my newbie ass out of it, then :>
<imbrandon> HAHA
<Simon80> lol
* LaserJock chants "I am not worthy, I am not worthy" in imbrandon's direction
<superm1> imbrandon, so about that branch ;)?
<crimsun> wow, two motu celebs active at the same time!
<imbrandon> heya LaserJock
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<Hobbsee> all we need is bddebian, too
<LaserJock> yeah, crimsun and imbrandon
<imbrandon> superm1, one sec
<superm1> k
<crimsun> pssht, I'm a mere mortal
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> crimsun: I know you too well to believe that ;-)
* ajmitch was privileged enough to be able to spend some time in their presence as well
<bddebian> For what?
* jwhitlark basks in the presence of greatness.
<zakame> lol
<crimsun> ah, the trinity is complete
<LaserJock> haha
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch falls on his face
<imbrandon> lol
<bddebian> crimsun, LaserJock, and ajmitch?
<crimsun> nah, bddebian, LaserJock, and imbrandon
<LaserJock> we're starting to sound like RMS, this is bad :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock has to be in it, since he's raging motuaholic
<imbrandon> arg, RMS /me twitches
<bddebian> HELL no
<bddebian>  :-)
<LaserJock> http://www.stallman.org/saintignucius.jpg
<imbrandon> omg
<zakame> hmm where's that `i'm a pc, i'm a mac, i'm a gnu` thing?
<zakame> saw that at 4chan earlier
<bddebian> Hey, any of you gonna care if I throw gnumach, mig, and possibly hurd packages in Feisty? :-)
* imbrandon wont
<crimsun> of course we'll care (and thank you repeatedly)
<imbrandon> well yea we'll care as in yes it good, but not the bad way :)
* imbrandon shuts up
<bddebian> :-)
<imbrandon> welp the lappy is now feisty, lets see how this works
<imbrandon> the next few weeks
<bddebian> That is provided my "November 6th" go-live date doesn't move to past Feisty roll-out :'-(
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> bddebian, are you helping with gNewSense ?
<nixternal> isn't stallman giving a racist salute in that picture?
<imbrandon> heya nixternal
<nixternal> well hello there
<bddebian> imbrandon: No
<nixternal> i think the food i cooked tonight was poisoned
<imbrandon> not cool
<nixternal> heh
<Simon80> you ninja
<nixternal> tell me about it
<LaserJock> nixternal: did you gf start throwing up?
<nixternal> imbrandon: running feisty on my other machine already
<crimsun> he wouldn't be on irc if she had.
<imbrandon> wow my typing is rubbing off on LaserJock
<nixternal> someone asked how is it, i said edgy ;)
<nixternal> she left
<nixternal> haha
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> probably never see her again
<zakame> awwww
<nixternal> forget awwww
<jwhitlark> gf's get in the way of quality coding.
<nixternal> \o/ \o/ \o/
<crimsun> oh don't worry, at least you have #kubuntu{,-devel}
<nixternal> YAY
<imbrandon> lol
<zakame> brb lunch
* ajmitch decides to get stuck into some packages
<ajmitch> if I want to have any chance of staying even remotely close to the MOTU legends, I have to get stuck in now
<crimsun> yeah, friggin K2 to scale
<ajmitch> it'll take me 6 years to do what these guys do in 6 hours
<imbrandon> hahaha
* imbrandon doesnt do a ton
<imbrandon> i just talk alot and loudly :)
<ajmitch> no, you don't measure your output by such trifling amounts
<imbrandon> ( and get called a redneck by the brits )
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hehe
<LaserJock> they just don't appreciate the finer points of redneck culture ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> like the fact that i _purchaced_ the camo ball cap i wore all week already frayed
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> oh yes
<LaserJock> you actually bought a cap?
<ajmitch> that's real culture :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<imbrandon> i think jono about died laughing when i told him i bought it like that
<joejaxx> that is funny
<jwhitlark> imbrandon: you got extra points because nobody knows what team it's for.
<crimsun> brandon fashioned his camo ball cap out of tree bark like any true deity would
<LaserJock> dude, I always go my caps from feed stored and parts stores for free ;-)
<imbrandon> jwhitlark, hahahaha
<Amaranth> haha, leslie needed a vacation after our visit
<imbrandon> yea she is on vacation this week she said
<jwhitlark> leslie got a little trashed by the end of the night...
<Amaranth> imbrandon: two weeks
<ajmitch> jwhitlark: a little? :)
<imbrandon> jwhitlark, every night
<imbrandon> ( as most of us did, well a good percentage )
<Amaranth> i feel bad, i drank all her brandy
<Amaranth> it came from amsterdam or something
<jwhitlark> I bought her a double scotch, and she downed it like nothing...
<jwhitlark> well, bought might not be the right word...
<ajmitch> since it was on her tab?
<jwhitlark> ajmitch: nah, I know the owner.
<imbrandon> well i started on corona at the begning of the night , then double crown and cokes and then wine, then more corona, then scotch
<ajmitch> ah
<imbrandon> i was a little sloshed
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you didn't bring any chew did you?
<jwhitlark> imbrandon: a little? :)
* ajmitch only had a few drinks :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha no just marlboro's
<imbrandon> all the fun was on the back porch when jane and the MS guy came out back with the smokers to BS
<jwhitlark> LaserJock: he smoked so much, that just standing near him my wife thought I had been smoking all night.
<Amaranth> yeah, that was cool
<imbrandon> LOL
<Amaranth> who was that guy, anyway?
<jwhitlark> yea?
<imbrandon> a community guy from MS
<imbrandon> a old friend of jane
* ajmitch missed out on all the fun
<Amaranth> ah
<jwhitlark> :O MS has community guys?
<jwhitlark> or anti-community..
<Amaranth> we had a nice line-for-bathroom/smoker group back there for most of the dinner
<imbrandon> jwhitlark, the guy in the beenie and flannels was the MS guy
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> Amaranth, well me and BenC spent about 60% of the dinner back there
<Amaranth> kurt skipped the line and used the woman's restroom, that was funny
<jwhitlark> heh.  200 person capacity, 2 bathrooms.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: that's kurt though
<imbrandon> and eveyone else kinda joined in untill jane came back to find out "where the party was"
<jwhitlark> that sounds like kurt.
<Amaranth> imbrandon: trying to escape the never empty glasses of wine? :)
<imbrandon> Amaranth, nah, i dont think i ever escaped that
<ajmitch> I'm sure I only had 2 or 3 glasses
<Amaranth> i drank about 1 1/2 glasses before i figured it out and stopped :P
<ajmitch> but I can't be sure :)
<jwhitlark> the never empty glasses of wine were the best part!
<imbrandon> i dont think benC did either as he found where the bus kept the plastic bags
<jwhitlark> well, I guess the company was ok too..
<Amaranth> imbrandon: ouch
<imbrandon> that was classic, no poke game that night
<ajmitch> imbrandon: oh?
<imbrandon> poker*
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea , on the way home, he found them as soon as the bus started moving
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> were they used?
<imbrandon> yes, very
* ajmitch knew when to stop drinking :)
<LaserJock> hmmm
<ajmitch> I stopped long before I felt that need
<imbrandon> well he went streigh to the room and a bunch of us found the pool side and a bottle of scotch
<Amaranth> how long were you out after you went back to the hotel for your passport?
<LaserJock> I'd much rather have water then that nasty stuff, but oh well ;-)
<ajmitch> Amaranth: got back in about 1:30
<Amaranth> ouch
<Amaranth> no wonder whiprush was a pain to wake up :P
<ajmitch> only had a couple of pints of beer
<ajmitch> yeah, whiprush came back about 2:30
* Amaranth was in bed by midnight
<imbrandon> i dont think i went to the room untill the sun was comming up
* ajmitch woke up by 7, didn't have a headache or hangover
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> that was the same day i slept until 8:30 and felt like crap all day
<Amaranth> i was lucky to make it to midnight
<imbrandon> well i dident get torn up untill the last night
<imbrandon> so i could sleep on the plane
<Amaranth> heh, good plan
<jwhitlark> imbrandon: and miss SF
<imbrandon> hahah jwhitlark yea that too, i slept the whole next day
<bddebian> There isn't much to miss in SF
<jwhitlark> did you guys ever get to the computer history museum?
<Amaranth> nope
<imbrandon> some did , i never did myself
<Amaranth> they're only open like 12 hours a week
<jwhitlark> I live near, and I still haven't.
<jwhitlark> When will we know where the next conf. will be?
<Amaranth> we already know
<Amaranth> but i've forgotten
<imbrandon> mark said possibly in spain
<Hobbsee> wow, spain?
<jwhitlark> I heard possibly too.
<imbrandon> but it wont be official untill about a month before
<LaserJock> I was thinking England
<jwhitlark> ah.
<Amaranth> brasil! :D
<ajmitch> it's already been in spain, of course
<LaserJock> it'll be offical much earlier this time
<Hobbsee> oh good
<imbrandon> LaserJock, after they played that brazilian video he said maybe southern spain
<LaserJock> they talked about planning the UDSs much earlier
* ajmitch doubts he'll be there
<jwhitlark> it better be.  Airfair 1 month before would suck.
<jwhitlark> anyone going to pycon in Feb?
<imbrandon> not i
<LaserJock> they said they need more time for corporate sponsors
* ajmitch lives too far from anywhere
* Hobbsee too
* Amaranth too
<ajmitch> hah
<Amaranth> i'm going to the ohio thing next year though even if i have to take a bus
<Lathiat> ohio
<Lathiat> ?
<Amaranth> ohio linuxfest
<Lathiat> ah right
<jwhitlark> ?
<LaserJock> I just hope Ubucon comes back to Mt. View
<imbrandon> LaserJock, New York is what jono and them were talking about, dunno how solid that info is ( UberUbuCon )
<LaserJock> well, the plan was to have 2 Ubucons a year
<LaserJock> on East Coast
<LaserJock> *one
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> and one at Google
<LaserJock> but I don't know if that's changed now that Canonical seems to be taking it over ;-)
<imbrandon> well they were talking actualy about lots of little ubucons ( all accross the country ) and the big one ( uberubucon ) the weekend before or after the UDS in the same place
<minghua> nobody thinks of Texans :-(
<jwhitlark> minghua: that's where Pycon is... ;)
<LaserJock> Texans don't think of anybody else either ;-)
<minghua> hmm, so PyCon will be in Dallas, nice
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<zakame> hmm what's the importance setting for request-for-sync bugs?
<zakame> I see requestsync doesn't touch it, so its `undecided'
<LaserJock> does it need to be changed?
<zakame> should it?
<zakame> maybe not
<Hobbsee> zakame: dont think so.
<Hobbsee> zakame: keybuk/kamion just go thru and ack the syncs, if they're right
<Hobbsee> zakame: you dont really even need to set it to confirmed
<Hobbsee> Uptime: 3 hours and 20 minutes
* Hobbsee looks for a power cable
<Hobbsee> bah, 22min left
<zakame> Hobbsee: ok, thanks, I'm doing lucene
<zakame> Hobbsee: mind if I get back some of my former merges from you? :)
<LaserJock> you've gone 3.5 hrs without being plugged in?
<Hobbsee> zakame: sure, just be warned that some people have already requested syncs/merges for packages that dont have them listed.  i'm not working on anything at the moment :)
<Hobbsee> zakame: go for it
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yep
<zakame> ok thanks again :D
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: beats my old laptop, of 1hr, 20 mins, tops
<Hobbsee> zakame: :)
<LaserJock> yeah, mine is generally 1hr
<LaserJock> maybe 1.5 if I'm not doing much
<Hobbsee> zakame: any of the packages maintained by the KDE extras team in debian - probably leave them - we should get the changes into debian, and just sync all of them
<imbrandon> bah , finaly made the blog post i've been putting off and it sucks, i should give up blogging :)
<Hobbsee> this is about 4, if i'm not playing games or something
<ajmitch> imbrandon: on planet?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
* ajmitch compulsively reloads
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: rofl @ the "good looking one" bit
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you stole that from Riddell
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> so modest
<ajmitch> hopefully I won't be in many photos
<imbrandon> thats ok i had to zoom in with gimp and explain to my New type S.O. that i WANSENT holding seele's hand in the pic
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<Simon80> awww, lol
<ajmitch> though it looks awfully close to that...
<Hobbsee> wouldnt be the first pic that looked awful suss
<imbrandon> yea it does, i never noticed till hse said something when we were looking over the photos
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> yeah, me neither, but it is pretty close
<imbrandon> s/hse/she
<imbrandon> i'm actualy about 1ft infront of her, but it dont look that way in the pic
* LaserJock starts a rumor
<ajmitch> heh
<Simon80> you can tell, your feet
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> Simon80: don't spoil it
<imbrandon> still i was like SH*T, i had to look twice even though i was there
<Simon80> lol
<Hobbsee> we'll just tease the redneck anyway
* minghua just noticed they put a "K" sticker on the ubuntu logo
<imbrandon> lol , yea that was my redneck idea :)
<Simon80> lol, yeah, I bet after the lack of sleep you got the shit scared out of you by not being sure
<imbrandon> and on the google master plan low tech wiki in the lobby i put a k infront of all the ubuntu marks :)
<Hobbsee> :D
<ajmitch> 'low tech wiki' indeed
<Simon80> night
<imbrandon> i think dholobach got pics of it
<imbrandon> err
<ajmitch> too much star trek
<imbrandon> well spelled correctly
<Hobbsee> kubuntu's going to take over.  we knew that all along.  is gnome got better, of course...
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee considers letting this battery die
<Simon80> save the dying battery! don't pull the plug!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: such a shame noone uses kubuntu though
<Riddell> ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it'll catch on.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sorry for the highlight
<ajmitch> hi Riddell
<Hobbsee> Riddell: and hello, glad you seemed to get back
<imbrandon> haha did you see the linux journal "distro of the year" award thet ubuntu got? all the text and screen shots are kubuntu :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
* Riddell throws the code of conduct at ajmitch 
<Simon80> the biggest reason I don't use KDE, go ahead and laugh at me, is gnome's system-monitor applet
<Hobbsee> Simon80: system monitor applet?  which one?
<Simon80> haven't tried kubuntu though, just kde on gentoo
<imbrandon> Simon80, umm kde has a sysmon applet too :)
<Simon80> but it sucks
<Simon80> I've tried it
* Hobbsee wonders why ajmitch needs the COC thrown at him
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, it was a joke :)
<Simon80> less space used for displaying graph, not quite in real time
<zakame> there's a symptoms applet?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i realise that, i just thought it was slightly random - and uncalled for :P
<Simon80> and IIRC the line is fat
* minghua wonders if throwing COC at people violates COC
<zakame> oh, misread that?
<ajmitch> minghua: only if it hits them
<imbrandon> i guess i should have added to the post that i got made freenode staff reciently too last week
<Hobbsee> minghua: we've had discussions before on whether defenestrating people violates the COC
<imbrandon> oh well there will be another soon
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: way cool!  you can fix everything!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: kline ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> :D
<Simon80> hobbsee: the applet I mean is the awesome one for gnome-panel that updates in real time and shows me cpu, mem, swap, and net
<imbrandon> lol i cant kline yet, i'm only level1 :)
<Hobbsee> oh right
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: awww :(
* ajmitch will be on his best behaviour
<ajmitch> oh, you can't?
<joejaxx> what is the applet that tells you to take a break?
<Hobbsee> klines are fun :)
* ajmitch will carry on then
<imbrandon> ajmitch, not untill i'm a level one staff for a few weeks
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> ...........must sleep
<ajmitch> great, a few weeks to cause havoc
* Riddell blogs the dancers http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2538
* imbrandon only shows up on "/stats p" for now
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: rsibreak?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, you didnt...
<imbrandon> Riddell, is that the jono pic?
<zakame> heheh
<lastnode> Burgundavia, ping
<imbrandon> Riddell, i hesitated putting that up
<Hobbsee> hahahha, you did1
<minghua> Hobbsee: "defenestrating"?
<ajmitch> Riddell: bad, bad photos :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: defenestrating? you like that word way too much ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.  i've worked it into exams before, too
<Hobbsee> minghua: the act of throwing someone or something out the window
<joejaxx> Riddell: LMAO
<zakame> there ought to be something like a 2channel for *ubuntu
<minghua> is that a real word?
<minghua> because I can't find it in dictionary
<Simon80> yes
<Hobbsee> zakame: what for?
<LaserJock> minghua: it is actually. I had to look it up because I didn't believe it was a real word either
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: no it was for gnome
<LaserJock> minghua: silly Aussies
<minghua> hmm, I probably should change dictionary
* Hobbsee hands joejaxx apt-cache search
<imbrandon> dictionary.com :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: timer-applet
<ajmitch> workrave?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ah ok thanks
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<minghua> "Defenestration is ... Merriam-Webster's dictionary users named it as one of their favorite words of the year in 2004."
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: oy, staffer.
<minghua> from wikipedia
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: better poke some other staffer
<imbrandon> ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: someone just ran the exploit in #ubuntu again
<Hobbsee> oh, the guy quit
<Hobbsee> moron
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: what was the nick?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, who was it ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: langer_
<imbrandon> k
<Hobbsee> Langer_ n=Langerso n128-227-97-124.xlate.ufl.edu * Langer
<zakame> what exploit is that?
<Hobbsee> !explot
<Hobbsee> !exploit
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about explot - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ubotu> There are people around who think it is funny to abuse a bug in certain routers by sending invalid DCC commands. When bitten by this bug ops in #ubuntu remove users so they are no longer targets. To fix it have a look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixDCCExploit
<imbrandon> some routers can be kicked offline by a DCC exploit
<lastnode> !exploit
<Riddell> UDS dudes: anyone remember what this talk was about?  http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/2006-11-11-uds/100_0750.JPG
<DBO> Hobbsee, he didnt quit, I banned him, he was loling
<imbrandon> although iirc they should get autyo kline when they try
<Hobbsee> DBO: yeah, but he quit freenode
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: only when nalioth's not set as away
<DBO> Hobbsee, ahh
<imbrandon> Riddell, yea
<imbrandon> Riddell, thats the security based remote os that uses kubuntu
<Hobbsee> showing off kde, it looks like
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<DBO> Riddell, no, but thats me pushing my hair back in the blue shirt
<Hobbsee> DBO: so you went, but have no clue what was said?
<Riddell> imbrandon: don't suppose you caught the name?
<DBO> Hobbsee, no I just dont recognize the speaker
<Hobbsee> ah
<imbrandon> Riddell, rember the secure remote desktop stuff
<imbrandon> that was it
<imbrandon> it was based on kubuntu
<imbrandon> dapper kubuntu iirc
<joejaxx> Riddell: secure remote administration
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: write me Seveas' script for konvi please, kthnksybe!
* Hobbsee looks for more people to ban
<imbrandon> i forget the company name
* lastnode hides from Hobbsee 
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, hahaha , yea i will someday
<LaserJock> what's the way to call the default browser from CLI?
<imbrandon> for now i just set aliases
<Amaranth> LaserJock: gnome-specific?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, in kde or gnome ?
* minghua goes home.  be back later.
<LaserJock> I was hoping for a DE neutral way
<LaserJock> but Gnome is ok
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> xdg-open is the DE neutral way
<Amaranth> Portland Project stuff
<Amaranth> gnome is gnome-open
<LaserJock> isn't there some sensible-browser or some such
<Riddell> yes, xdg-utils
<imbrandon> "kfmclient openProfile webbrowsing http://www.imbrandon.com" is the kde way to use the default iirc
<Riddell> I expect xdg-utils will be in main soon
<Hobbsee> *!*@n128-227-97-124.xlate.ufl.edu.
<Hobbsee> same guy
<Hobbsee> where's he hitting next?  and under what name?
<Amaranth> imbrandon: yuck, in gnome it's just "gnome-open http://www.imbrandom.com" :P
<imbrandon> well you COULD just use "kfmclient url"
<imbrandon> but its not quite as nice
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> without gconf tweaking gnome-open will always open a web browser then the web browser decides what to do with it
<Amaranth> if you do the tweaks gnome-open will check the mime type and open the right app directly
<imbrandon> lol, classic
<LaserJock> in OS X there is a nice open command
<Amaranth> the mime type checking stuff is slow
<Amaranth> dude to the unstable nature of the internet and all
<LaserJock> open ~/ will open up a Finder window with your home directory
<LaserJock> etc.
<Amaranth> LaserJock: that's gnome-open and kfmclient
<LaserJock> yeah, but it works better :-)
<Amaranth> i don't see how
<LaserJock> like you just said, the mime checking is slow
<Amaranth> for http, yes
<Amaranth> because it needs to call HEAD or whatever and wait for a response
<LaserJock> in OS X you can hit open XYZ and it will open it just as if you clicked it in Finder
<Amaranth> or worse, download the file and check the mime magic stuff
<Amaranth> "gnome-open ~/" isn't really slow
<Amaranth> only remote things are slow, because they're remote
<LaserJock> ah, yes
<LaserJock> it does work similarly
<LaserJock> very cool
<LaserJock> I liked that in OS X
<Amaranth> i don't think it can do "open bbedit" or whatever to launch an app
<Amaranth> otherwise it's actually better than OS X's open :)
* Hobbsee headdesks
<Hobbsee> i think it's time to change the real name of my client back to Hobbsee
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, why is that ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: because people realise that i'm female, and start asking questions.  bleh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: are you getting hit on?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: not quite.   just "you're a girl, why are you into PC's?"
<imbrandon> ahh figured as much
<Amaranth> people see "Sarah" and go all "greater internet fuckwad theory"
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> unfortunately
<imbrandon> Amaranth, hey now, watch the lang , shhhhh :)
* Hobbsee should just turn off unregistered people
<Amaranth> imbrandon: it's the name of a real thing :)
<imbrandon> i know, thus just kinda "slap" dont do that again, this channel is logged etc
<imbrandon> :)
<Amaranth> oh, logs
<Amaranth> dang logs
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Amaranth> ubuntulog: I hate you. :P
<ajmitch> ZOMG there's a gurl here?!?
<Amaranth> *drool*
* Hobbsee giggles
<imbrandon> ajmitch, on teh intarweb
<ajmitch> can't be true
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch wonders what those anthropologists would make of this :)
<Hobbsee> they'd go mad
* StevenK appears.
<Hobbsee> hey StevenK!
* StevenK waves to *
<ajmitch> at the first mention of madness, he appears
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
<StevenK> Duh. I am the personification of it.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm sure andreas is watching the logs :-)
* ajmitch will choose his words with care
<imbrandon> and greps for gurl|girl|female
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> bbaib , food time
<StevenK> imbrandon: You forgot 'grrl'
<imbrandon> ahh right
<LaserJock> nixternal just calls them "the distraction that keeps me from working on Ubuntu" but that's a much longer name ;-)
<imbrandon> mmm microwave noodles
<ajmitch> man, you have food
* ajmitch wishes there were food to eat here :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hah
<imbrandon> if thats what you call instant noodles
* Hobbsee is a distraction, yes
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: of course you are :P
<StevenK> Heh
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> this whole channel is a distraction
<LaserJock> yeah, I can't get any work done with that big pointy stick of DOOM!!! (TM) above my head
<LaserJock> ajmitch: +1
<LaserJock> we should just rename the channel ubuntu-devel-offtopic
* Hobbsee pokes LaserJock with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (tm) a few times
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> maybe.  but we do occasoinally do relevant stuff in here
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha +1
<LaserJock> occasionally
<Hobbsee> exactly
* StevenK waits for ubuntu-sru to rule over his wlassistant bug.
* Hobbsee rejects it
<StevenK> Maybe I should comment saying "My blood, sweat and tears are in that patch!"
<imbrandon> we try to keep it to a dull roar and stop when there is something ontopic to talk about
* ajmitch does bzr branch on a package for review
<ajmitch> see, ontopic stuff!
<Riddell> StevenK: where is that?
<StevenK> Riddell: bug 64841
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64841 in wlassistant "wireless assisant does not connect in edgy" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64841
<superm1> imbrandon, I eventually got a branch uploaded to bzr.  there were a few steps that appeared to be missing though from the wiki page you were describing.
<imbrandon> superm1, kk, did you add/edit them ?
<superm1> i had to add the product into launchpad (mythtv)
<superm1> and then i had to make a local commit before it would accept the push
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<superm1> as long as what i did was the right thing to do, i'll add it to the wiki page
<imbrandon> yea that sounds right
<superm1> so now when linking the product and source package, how to buildds get kicked off?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> not yet
<superm1> still the normal way of making a debdiff and getting it uploaded and such
<superm1> just debdiff from the bzr branch?
<imbrandon> but if you commit you changes there and i do also ( along with the rest of the team )  i can just branch it and upload
<Riddell> StevenK: ++      // This is actually a really bad idea - you have no way of knowing
<Riddell> ++      // if you are first lease in the file or what.
<Riddell> StevenK: the "bad idea" is the bit of code being commented out?  or the commenting out?
<imbrandon> superm1, e.g when you commit to bzr , then when i'm ready to make changes i branch it and commit, then upload both commits to the archive
<imbrandon> ( and you later when you make MOTU )
<superm1> i see
<superm1> make sense
<superm1> okay well at this point then i have a few more thing i wanted to put in and then I guess i'll speak more with you about the exact changes then
<superm1> and make sure everything is kosher and makes sense
<imbrandon> sure, push what ever you like for now, i'll review it when your ready in a few days and we'll push it to the archive
<superm1> i wanted to ask you though about bug handling
<imbrandon> make sure its upto date with upstream also since we're not in uvf now
<superm1> it is so far.
<superm1> there have been a lot of crash reports coming in, and i'm not sure how to handle forwarding these upstream
<superm1> if i should request people to install ddebs and then report again and such
<imbrandon> just open a bug in their bts if there isnt one
<imbrandon> and then link to the bug in lp with the upstream bug stuff
<superm1> i'm just wondering though if the crash report will be enough without debugging symbols though
<imbrandon> superm1, well you can only ask for so much if they dont provide it, if you can ask in the comments for them to do so , great, if not work with what we get, just like any other package :)
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> okay
<imbrandon> the main thing ( to me ) is its reporduceable
<imbrandon> by someone other than the bug reporter
<superm1> yea, none of them have had second reports
<superm1> unfortunately
<superm1> i'll forward an email off to the mythtv dev mailing list tomorrow and see how they feel about it.  well glad we're making progress with getting this going.  i'm gonna let the mythplugins branch push, and get some shut eye.
<imbrandon> kk sounds like a plan
<superm1> thanks again, have a good evening
<imbrandon> night
<Riddell> StevenK: I need to sleep now but please poke me if I don't get this checked over by tomorrow
<StevenK> Right.
<imbrandon> grab-merge mol
<imbrandon> gah
<minghua> okay, I'm in feisty now
<Burgundavia> minghua: and?
<minghua> and things look good so far
<minghua> altough I'm still feeling a bit uneasy in KDE
<Burgundavia> right
<minghua> but that has nothing to do with feisty
<Burgundavia> the only thing that has kept me from jumping is my atheros card
<imbrandon> i jumped on my powerpc laptop, i think i'll wait a bit more for the desktop, i need atleaste one semi working system
<imbrandon> incase something major breaks
<imbrandon> btw heya Burgundavia
<minghua> for desktop it's always easy to get a large enough hard drive to install both, I think
<Burgundavia> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> minghua, well the desktop buld machine i would do it on is also the build machine that others loginto, laserjock, Hobbsee, fujitsu, Seveas and a few others might now like it if i broke the build box :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm sure they're not actually using it :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well most of the time there is atleaste one other person logged in
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> specialy twords the end of the month
<imbrandon> lol
<minghua> imbrandon: then it's a server, not a desktop anymore ;-)
<imbrandon> well desktop build machine , true
<minghua> konversation should have saner default settings, like differentiate enter/leave messages and real messages
<imbrandon> minghua, i am the active "maintainer" of it ( if you can call it that ) work up some better defaults and i'll be happy to poke them in
<minghua> imbrandon: sure, but this time it may be a false alarm
<imbrandon> no worries, just email them to me if/when you ever do
<minghua> (since when my other client leaves the highlight seems to be triggered)
<imbrandon> the only default hilight is when your name is said
<imbrandon> what ever your current nick is
<minghua> apparently when I log in as minghua, the default setting triggers highlight with minghua-windows
<minghua> which is not necessarily wrong, but still
<imbrandon> right becosue minghua is part of minghua-windows , its not terribly smart
<minghua> and I noticed that different IRC clients are extremely inconsistent on part-word match
<minghua> I think minghuawindows won't trigger, as there is no hyphen, but I'm not sure
<imbrandon> yea me either to be honest, you can turn off the current nick hilight and use a true regex if you want
<imbrandon> thats normaly what i do, but its hard to make that a default
<minghua> never makes regex the default
<minghua> I think jwz is quite right on regex (and usually I don't agree with him)
<imbrandon> ugh dident we switch from linux-headers-generic to libc6 something ?
<ajmitch> no
<imbrandon> hrm ok
<ajmitch> we switched from linux-kernel-headers to linux-libc6-dev, iirc
<ajmitch> linux-headers-generic pulls in the headers for building modules
<imbrandon> right , ok thats what i need
<Burgundavia> ok, anybody else noticing that file-roller is refusing to open .rpm, src.rpm and .deb anymore?
<pygi> Burgundavia, feisty?
<Burgundavia> and dapper both
<sivang> morning all
<Burgundavia> morning sivang
<pygi> Burgundavia, weird, any recent update that could have 'caused that?
<Burgundavia> nah, it is a bug in file-roller
<sivang> Burgundavia: corey!
<imbrandon> hrm programs shouldeb be compiling against linux/compiler.h anymore correct ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: afaik yes.
<TheMuso> If it helps, I can't find it in /usr/include, and I have libc6-dev installed.
<zakame> bad me I forgot to dch -e on electricsheep
<Gloubiboulga> hello universe
<imbrandon> heya Gloubiboulga
<imbrandon> ok TheMuso
<Gloubiboulga> hi imbrandon
<zakame> yo Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> zakame: yay, you're doing electricsheep :)
<Hobbsee> zakame: what's -e do?
<zakame> Hobbsee: `dch -e` just to update the Changed-By
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> neat :)
<zakame> did test for clean installation and removal though ;)
<imbrandon> zakame, and list the remaning changes
<imbrandon> :)
<zakame> imbrandon: hmm right
<zakame> got accepted now though, so Iunless unless I bump another upload with just a diff on changelog...
<imbrandon> heh
<crimsun> !info apt
<ubotu> apt: Advanced front-end for dpkg. In component main, is important. Version 0.6.45ubuntu14 (edgy), package size 1398 kB, installed size 4324 kB
<crimsun> !info apt feisty
<crimsun> (same currently)
<crimsun> gnomefreak: ^^
<gnomefreak> yeah i messed up and did info apt on dapper :(
<gnomefreak> his apt is crashing
<imbrandon> time for a nap, gnight all
<pygi> night imbrandon
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<crimsun> 'morning sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi crimsun
<fernando> moin all
<crimsun> 'lo
<TheMuso> \sh_away: Have you started working on alsaplayer? If so, I'll let you take care of it.
<crimsun> heh, I need to resurrect the gtk2 patches I have for it
<TheMuso> crimsun: Wow. That must have been a lot of work.
<crimsun> not really, surprisingly enough
<crimsun> granted I believe Andy used Glade
<TheMuso> Pitty that development seems to have stalled. I reckon its a great app for what it does.
<crimsun> yeah, it's the first I used with jackd
<TheMuso> It can also be controled from pd with an external. Thats neat too.
<TheMuso> Saves one having to put a player external into pd, which saves a bit of CPU, as IMO pd is not the best at realtime performance.
<TheMuso> And some externals make it fall over.
<StevenK> Woot, alsaplayer.
<StevenK> It's been *years* since I tried it.
<StevenK> I don't think the version number has changed all that much. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: No, as I think development has stalled.
<Hobbsee> DBO: check out blast, if you havent already
<Lutin> giskard: ping
<xerxas> Hi there !
<ryanakca> is there a guide/howto for "merging"?
<DBO> Hobbsee, what the head is blast...
<DBO> heck even...
<MehdiHassanpour> hi
<DBO> oh well this is friggin horrible, Hobbsee remind me to maim you...
<MehdiHassanpour> will any MOTU here package a sictionary for Ubuntu Universe for us ?
<MehdiHassanpour> this is the link to it's latest Debian package
<MehdiHassanpour> http://www.parsix.org/packages/pool/main/x/xfardic/
<giskard> Lure, pong
<giskard> Lutin, ^
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: if there are no specific ubuntu changes need be done, I think it can be safely synced from debian
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: come again and check in a week or two, the auto syncs might pull it in, if it does not exist in ubuntu we might have to ask archive admins to import it
<luisbg> hello all
<MehdiHassanpour> sivang: we need "aspell-fa" package to be imported from Debian Unstable too
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: that is cool, if you can find it in ubuntu but its in sid, come back in a week approx, if it still hasn't been imported, then you can ask me or any other MOTU to file an "import" request for archive admins
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: make sure you search for them both in universe and in main
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jsgotangco> Hey cant tab complete, laptop is dead chatting via phone
<MehdiHassanpour> sivang:I've searched for "aspell-fa" in http://packages.ubuntu.com
* Lathiat clicks the "Desktop crack" button
<Lathiat> nifty :)
<sivang> Lathiat: where is that button? :)
<Lathiat> in feisty :)
<Lathiat> technically it says "Enable Desktop Effects" but i took some liberty in the translation
<jsgotangco> Hahaha en_AU
<MehdiHassanpour> we need 2 packages in ubuntu
<MehdiHassanpour> 1. aspell-fa (that is in sid, but not yet in ubuntu)
<MehdiHassanpour> 2. xFarDic (not in sid & ubuntu) but we have the debian packages here: http://www.parsix.org/packages/pool/main/x/xfardic/
<sivang> Lathiat: yo installed matthew's packages?
<sivang> *you
* sivang wonders when will the prop ati drivers be ready in feisty
<sivang> since I Upgraded my hardware acceleration broke dead
<sivang> Lathiat: any idea?
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: okay so for (2) I think it's better if it's uploaded to sid first and then autosynced/synced to ubuntu
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: (1) then might be requiring explicit request once we see it's not in by next week
<sivang> anyway I have to run, see you all laters
<MehdiHassanpour> sivang: can't you upload (2) to REVU ?
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: I can even upload it to universe, but for sake of less duplication and being more sync with upstream (debian in this regard) we would be better off uploading it there to save us work when it does hit debian eventually.
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: you could even ask either of the uploaders that are signed on the package to do it for you,
<MehdiHassanpour> I don't think it will be uploaded to debian soon
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: I even know one of them :)
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: ah, why not?
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: I know at least one of them has debian upload powers
<MehdiHassanpour> who ?
<sivang> MehdiHassanpour: kaplan@debian.org
<MehdiHassanpour> yep, he has
<Q-FUNK> that's Lior, right?
<sivang> Q-FUNK: indeed
<Q-FUNK> he's cool
<sivang> Q-FUNK: you know him as well? :)
<Q-FUNK> just mail him and ask
<Q-FUNK> yup.  we met at debconf5.  he's a funny guy.
<MehdiHassanpour> this package is reviewed by 2 DD
<sivang> he's nice and kind
<sivang> indeed
<MehdiHassanpour> but I don't think it will be uploaded to debian soon
<sivang> Q-FUNK: were you in UDS btw?
<Q-FUNK> nope
<Lathiat> sivang: from fiesty, yeh
<Lathiat> sivang: on nvidia
<Q-FUNK> the land of the non-free is off-limits for me
<sivang> Lathiat: ah I see, sucks to be using ati then ;P
<sivang> Q-FUNK: =)
<sivang> Q-FUNK: how do you sustain yourself then? do you also have a day job apart from you FLOSS contributions?
<Q-FUNK> I co-founded a startup that is not yet breaking even.
<Q-FUNK> www.linutop.com
<zul> what is it running?
<sivang> dude!
<Q-FUNK> an small embeded linux distro
<zul> cool
<Lutin> giskard: still around ?
<tepsipakki> Q-FUNK: where could I get one?-)
<Q-FUNK> send an e-mail to info@linutop.com
<Q-FUNK> our first 50 units are only for developers
<tepsipakki> ah, ok
<tepsipakki> it works as a ltsp-capable terminal as well?
<zul> Q-FUNK: what do you guys need?
<Q-FUNK> yup
<Q-FUNK> we're just completing the base platform now with an embeded linux developer.  once we have that, we can sell pre-production units to developers interested in porting apps to it.
<Q-FUNK> -> #linutop
<Q-FUNK> (just to avoid veering off-topic too much here)
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> I did a request some time ago about the gtkglext python binding package
<asabil> still no answer ?
<giskard> Lutin, yes
<Lutin> giskard: hello, how are you ?
<giskard> fine :) thanks!
<giskard> you?
<Lutin> fine, thanks
<Lutin> I saw you are maintaining a debian tree for telepathy-sharp
<Lutin> do you plan to upload the package on revu soon ?
<giskard> Lutin, i can upload it directly in universe
<giskard> but...not now, if you need it, i can do an upload tonight! :(
<zakame> hi all
<jdong> hi
<zakame> hi jdong
* jdong registers project evil :)
<jdong> https://launchpad.net/products/barnacle
<jdong> I think it's worded quite innocently... :)
<Lutin> giskard: I don't it _now_, but it'd be fine if you could commit it in a few days or weeks
<giskard> i'm merging network-manager
<giskard> after it i will do t-sharp :)
<giskard> anyway, why you need it?
<Lutin> giskard: planning to pacakge tapioca-sharp and then landell (voip and im client based on the telepathy framework)
<Lutin> which build-depends on t-sharp
<giskard> uh YEAH!
<Lutin> giskard: no need to hurry up. I was just wondering if t-sharp would be in universe before feisty ;)
<giskard> give me 3 hours
<giskard> (i have to finish my chemistry exercise ;) )
<Lutin> giskard: I give you much more
<Lutin> no need to hurry as I said
<giskard> nah, i wanted it in edgy.
<Lutin> oh
<giskard> but i'm lazy ;)
<Lutin> understand
<Lutin> B-)
<Lutin> maybe more busy than lazy
<Sp4rKy> hi !
<fernando> I can to request a unused launchpad account? the user don't have a mail in launchpad for contact
<zul> check with #launchpad
<fernando> ops, launchpad user maillist, thanks
<Sp4rKy> please
<Sp4rKy> i think there is a possible serious issue security in edgy
<Sp4rKy> how should i contact ?
<geser> motu-sru and/or the security team would be a try
<Sp4rKy> nobody on irc ?
<geser> you can try to reach a member of those teams
<Sp4rKy> geser: done, thx :)
<luisbg> Sp4rKy, which security problem?
<LaserJock> pitti is the security guru
<enyc> pitti = martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
<enyc> 'head' of ubuntu security team
<enyc> "(Owner)" rather
<enyc> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-security
<chantra> enyc: cuu1=\E[A,
<chantra> sorry, wron channel :s
<chantra> hi, i'm having a weird trouble, I've just build gaim beta5 and it works fine on edgy, but not on feisty
<chantra> some keys are not recognized :s
<plugwash> does beta3.1 work on feisty?
<chantra> beta3.1 does not have gaim-text
<chantra> ASAIK
<chantra> s/S/F/
<chantra> it seems that this is due to the term info
<chantra> it actually does not work on either feisty or edgy if using gnome terminal
<chantra> but it does work when launching gaim-text through screen
<plugwash> afaict gaim-text is pretty experimental at the moment, bugs are to be expected
<chantra> plugwash: :)
<chantra> plugwash: gonna try a trick that was used against screen and rxvt-unicode terms
<chantra> and see if it works :)
<Riddell> StevenK: can you join us in #kubuntu-devel
<zul> bleah
<Adri2000> everybody, what do you think about the best section for homebank (http://homebank.free.fr/) ? gnome? misc? x11?
<Q-FUNK> gnome, I'd say
<giskard> i need beta-testers for the new N-M
<giskard> hi slomo
<Burgwork> blog about it
<LaserJock> heh, and here I thought I was already a beta tester ;-)
<giskard> LaserJock, 0.6.4-5...?
<LaserJock> just trying it at all :-)
<LaserJock> !info electricsheep
<ubotu> electricsheep: screensaver showing collective dream of sleeping computers. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.6.8-2ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 2668 kB, installed size 3444 kB
<LaserJock> who merged electricsheep?
<zul> hmm...havent checked the changelog?
<LaserJock> that's my point
<slomo> LaserJock: at least zakame uploaded it
<LaserJock> "Changed-By: Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>"
<ajmitch> oh dear
<LaserJock> zakame: dude ,change the MoM changelog entry to your own next time ;-)
<ajmitch> who signed it?
<slomo> and people are not using the changelog format for merges that was decided...
<LaserJock> darn it, I hate having RL work to do
<LaserJock> seems like lots of problems are coming down to either we have no documentation or people aren't getting to the documentation
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we sometimes have too much documentation
<ajmitch> and people drown in it
<LaserJock> right
<ajmitch> not enough quality
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> that's why I was going to try to weed out/condense our wiki
<zul> we need a tech writer ;)
<LaserJock> a tech writer with time ;-)
* LaserJock thinks zul just volunteered as the MOTU tech writer :p
<zul> ummm...have you actually seen me write something :P
<LaserJock> hmm, good point
<luisbg> LaserJock, I think it is too much information and badly linked, getting to all places of the wiki through links is hell
<LaserJock> mhm
<zul> later
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<LaserJock> hi TheMuso
<ajmitch> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
<TheMuso> Recovered yet?
<ajmitch> of course
* lupine_85 plays with pbuilder
<lupine_85> it's so /slow/ in qemu :(
<pygi> lupine_85, everything is slow in qemu
<lupine_85> yeah I know
* lupine_85 tries to get kqemu working
<lupine_85> ...I'm going to be running an edgy chroot in a dapper qemu instance on an edgy system...
<pygi> whatever :P
<giskard> hi pygi
<pygi> hey ho giskard
<pygi> how are you?
<pygi> giskard, you alive? :P
<jderose> I just uploaded a package to REVU, which seemed to work (as in I'm on the keyring), but the recover password message decrypted to the text "None" only (which, not surprisingly, I can't login with).  Any ideas?
<jderose> My status on https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members is "Approved", by the way.
<crimsun> looks like you need a manual reset.
<crimsun> (that "feature" triggers often)
<jderose> Is that something an admin has to do, or can I do it?
<crimsun> former
<jderose> Okay, thanks.  Is this the place to request said favor?  ;)
<crimsun> yes, when an admin wanders by, it'll be done
<jderose> crimsun: Thank you very much!
<crimsun> np
<joejaxx> is there anyway for me to be able to apt-get a list of packages
<joejaxx> but have it download the debs to a folder?
<joejaxx> i know there is the -d application flag for apt-get
<crimsun> what is your question really asking, then?
<Q-FUNK> I'm wondering the same thing.
<Q-FUNK> snerror
<joejaxx> i need them to download to a specific folder
<joejaxx> nevermind i think i found it
<joejaxx> -o dir::cache=~/tmp/
<joejaxx> hmm maybe not
<sladen> jderose: REVU can't cope with more than one UID on a key
<jderose> sladen... so my rsa/rsa key wont work?
<sladen> jderose: once it's done manually, it'll be fine.  But the automatic script chokes
<jderose> i think i only have one uid: pub   2048R/4B478297 2004-05-16
<jderose> uid                  Jason Gerard DeRose <jderose@jasonderose.org>
<jderose> sub   2048R/B7B57F9B 2004-05-16
<joejaxx> crimsun: i will just debootstrap dapper and apt-get the packages i want in there and pull them out of cache
<joejaxx> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hi joejaxx
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<jderose> sladen: okay.  but as far as i can tell,  i only have one uid on my key.
<giskard> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hello giskard
<jderose> crimsun, sladen: oops, i think part of the problem is that the first time i accidentally uploaded to ubuntu, not revu... but it seemed to work.  this shouldn't have worked, right?  would the failure be silent?
<crimsun> uploading to ubuntu with a non-recognised key is a silent failure (from your perspective), yes
<jderose> okay.
<sladen> jderose: silent on success, noisey on failure
<jderose> okay, got my password now.  sorry for the trouble.
<jderose> quick question: i am the upstream developer of the package i'm working on.  should the package version be treated as an ubuntu native package, or should i still suffix the version with -0ubuntu1?
<LaserJock> jderose: don't make it an ubuntu native package unless the source is only to be used in Ubuntu
<jderose> okay, thanks
<ajmitch> oh dear, someone soliciting donations on the -devel list
<Burgwork> ajmitch: indeed, that -devel-discuss sounds good right now
<Burgwork> the only thing that concerns me is non-MOTUs like myself being excluded, but I can live with that
<pygi> Burgwork, right :-/
<Burgwork> I think that people should be able to go to the technical board and ask for posting permission to the new list
<pygi> Burgwork, agreed, but don't think that will happen
<Burgwork> I think it will
<pygi> Burgwork, only time will tell then ^_^
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-15
<Burgwork> I intend to make it so
<LaserJock> I can't imagine the TB wanting to be responsible for deciding
<crimsun> I don't imagine that's vaguely relevant to TB, even.
<minghua> ouch @ the soliciting mail on -devel
<bhale> ugh
<Burgwork> LaserJock: somebody needs to decide if non-MOTUs can post to the list
<bhale> what list?
<Burgwork> the new -devel list, that only MOTU and core-dev can post to
<bhale> why not members
<bhale> for "people like yo"
<Burgwork> well, there are people who are members and still contribute to the noise
<bhale> yes if i was the guy in charge there would be no such thing
<bhale> but im an uncompromising jerk
<Burgwork> I live in fear of such a day
<bhale> me in charge?
<bhale> or cutting Members
<Burgwork> both
<bhale> it seems like anyone can be a member
<Burgwork> that is the point
<bhale> thus claiming to represent us in the world
<bhale> hostmask, email etc
<bhale> < not a fan
<crimsun> I think it's a good thing to have membership be a much lower bar, and I'm in favour of an ubuntu-dev-only list
<Burgwork> but there is a class of "highly-technical-but-not-MOTU" who can add value, such as myself
<bhale> and the CC doesn't have the time to differentiate
<Burgwork> no, but that isn't their job, in this case
<Burgwork> it is a tb decision, really
<bhale> well, what makes your word better than RandomForumUser
<bhale> who posted 100 times
<bhale> and convinced someone to vouch for him as a member
<bhale> *I* know better
<crimsun> perhaps we just need another LP team
<Burgwork> quite simple; other people trust me and I have proven myself not to contribute to the noise ratio
<bhale> a casual observer doesnt know the difference
<crimsun> like a ubuntu-dev-list-approved team or whatever
<Burgwork> that isn't the point
<bhale> not for the list
<Burgwork> like for membership and MOTU, you need to prove yourself to a set body, not the world
<minghua> crimsun: you are not afraid of \sh complaining about more teams again? ;-)
<crimsun> people complain about everything; one more complaint won't reverse the Earth's revolution
<LaserJock> imbrandon: assignment?
* LaserJock thinks imbrandon has super uber MOTU powers
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i forgot a debian/copyright in a NEW package i uploaded, so i had to right it 1000 times :)
<LaserJock> hahaha
<imbrandon> s/right/write
<imbrandon> so as a joke I did , and emailed it to him when i uploaded the fixed package :)
<nixternal> oi
<LaserJock> darn it, stupid metric system!!!
<minghua> I bet imbradon used some scripts or smart editor functions
<minghua> LaserJock: come on, you are a scientist
<nixternal> imbrandon: quit lieing...you didn't write it hundred times, you copied/pasted it 100 times..actually probably just 10, as the list got longer, so did the pastes ;)
<imbrandon> shhhh
<nixternal> haha
<minghua> LaserJock: or do American chemists use ounces other than grams?
<LaserJock> yeah, and I just found out I bought a metric translation stage for $500 :/
<LaserJock> now I've got to return it :(
<nixternal> minghua: seeing as the dealers in chicago use grahams, and they are some pretty darn good chemists from what i hear ;p
<nixternal> graham cracker?
<nixternal> wth is wrong with me
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> grams...
<nixternal> i think i have a tumor, not a brain
<LaserJock> so today I have a dead vacuum pump, dead laser (luckily I we fixed it), and a stupid metric translation stage
<minghua> what's a translation stage BTW?
<LaserJock> s/I we/ my boss and I/
<LaserJock> well, my particular one is http://www.newport.com/401406-Series-High-Performance-Large-Platform-Two-/140117/1033/catalog.aspx
* ajmitch returns
<Simon80> how do you buy something like that by accident?
<minghua> I see.  I think I've seen these things in labs
<ajmitch> bhale: don't worry, with the various team councils, there's potential for the bar being set even lower
<LaserJock> Simon80: they are identical, just one version is metric
<LaserJock> Simon80: so I guess I accidentally clicked on the metric one
<Simon80> as opposed to Imp?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> everytime you talk about this stuff LaserJock, i always picture the mini-me scene with the " lazer "
<Simon80> ah
<LaserJock> nixternal: no, I'm the lab Laser Safety Officer, I don't allow laser humping
<Simon80> it can be perfectly safe, with the right protective implements...
<nixternal> hahaha
<bhale> ajmitch: nice
<ajmitch> bhale: like a forum council which can approve members on forums
<bhale> oh jeez
<LaserJock> so has dchroot been swallowed up by schroot?
<imbrandon> and council greyskull :)
<LaserJock> but Council Grayskull will have a high bar
<LaserJock> not everyone can have the  right to wear the He-Man sword ;-)
<Simon80> dchroot, schroot? what?
<Burgwork> LaserJock: you are, undoubtably, a very boring person
<bhale> LaserJock: as I said, I had a he-man sword
<LaserJock> bhale: I know, that's why you get to be a MOTU ;-)
<crimsun> who needs council greyskull when we have the trinity of motu?
<LaserJock> mwhuahaha
<LaserJock> Burgwork: sorry, I'm not so boring in real life, I swear ;-)
<imbrandon> lol , every time i hear that i think of the matrix
<bhale> crimsun: is it just a trinity?
<bhale> slomo ajmitch dholbach siretart
<bhale> make 4
<crimsun> nah, LaserJock, bddebian, and imbrandon.
<ajmitch> bhale: nah
<bhale> really, you trust those lamers?
<LaserJock> is that the trinity of stupidity?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> bbiab , dinner time
<bhale> the upload whores
* bddebian hugs bhale
* bhale hugs bddebian 
<Burgwork> dude, I need to become a MOTU, just to become an upload whore
* ajmitch isn't worthy of such a title
<ajmitch> I just go for touching a few packages
<crimsun> we're just mere mortals
<Simon80> Burgwork: will you upload to just about anywhere?
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't upload much
* bddebian doesn't do shit :-(
<Rasman> how does someone go about getting involved with ubuntu?
<crimsun> topic has some pointers
<crimsun> see /MOTU , for instance
<Rasman> I have already submitted bugs but I would like to learn how a bug is resolved and see if there is somewhere I can assist.
<nixternal> <crimsun> we're just mere mortals
<nixternal> way to modest
<ajmitch> nixternal: crimsun is always like that - he does more than the rest of the team put together
<nixternal> he is a team
<bhale> I think I uploaded something last month
<bhale> maybe not
<bhale> I will be thrown out one of these days
<ajmitch> I uploaded a new package last week, and that's about it
<nixternal> i have people upload for me
<nixternal> i can 'dput revu' though ;)
<xopher> Where could I find information on how-to include a new package into the official ubuntu repos?
<LaserJock> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<joejaxx> good old revu
<minghua> bddebian: Can you have a look at ygraph and confirm what I said on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Science/UpstreamDelta that everything except the .desktop file stuff are just junk during build?
<minghua> bddebian: in that case we can sync from debian and discard ubuntu changes
<LaserJock> that's right minghua, crack the whip on him
* minghua throws COC at LaserJock
<LaserJock> me? but what did I do? ;-)
<imbrandon> dholbach, ping
<dholbach> imbrandon: pong
<ajmitch> the dholbach is in :)
<minghua> aha, so the feisty testing CDs are going to be called Herd?
<imbrandon> mind if i add "drop distro check, get rid of message when using dch -i <Ubuntu distro>." back with ubuntu distronames, my thinking is many will mispell feisty
<imbrandon> dholbach, ^
<imbrandon> to devscripts
* minghua anticipates the confusion this will cause among Chinese users (due to Hurd)
<ajmitch> minghua: at least we can say that the herd released :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> does gNewSense have a hurd kernel ?
<ajmitch> I hope not
<dholbach> imbrandon: so you'd add all the {warty,hoary,breezy,dapper, edgy},{,-updates,-backports,-security} combinations to it?
<dholbach> imbrandon: if you want to do that ... sure
<imbrandon> dholbach, that was my thinking yes
<imbrandon> ok cool
<imbrandon> that way when people mispell feisty it will prompt to make sure thats what they want
<imbrandon> ok i'll do that after dinner
<dholbach> . o O { fisty }
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> "Are you really, _really_ sure about this?"
* minghua considers patching vim debchanglog syntax file to check ubuntu codenames
<minghua> (or does it do that already?)
<imbrandon> minghua, that what i was talking about , when you use "dch -i -Dblah"
<imbrandon> it uses what ever editor , nano/emacs/vim
<imbrandon> what ever VISUAL is set to
<minghua> imbrandon: I am talking about syntax highlighting
<minghua> currently if you misspell "unstable", it will be highlighted as "Error" in vim
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> ok really dinner, bbiab
<minghua> which is something IMHO having a better chance to be included in Debian
<LaserJock> is that because it is mispelled or because it isn't a proper Debian release
<minghua> LaserJock: the latter
<LaserJock> cool
<minghua> so you guys think this is a good idea?  I'll probably do it tonight then
<imbrandon> sounds ok to me
<minghua> imbrandon: of course that's quite independent to what you are trying to do
<imbrandon> i dont use vim for changelogs but i'm sure for those that do will like it
<imbrandon> minghua, right
<imbrandon> two seperate packages and things, but the same idea
<imbrandon> err same problem
<imbrandon> i wonder if nano supports syntax hilighting , i doubt it
<imbrandon> something to look at later tonight
<bhale> crimsun: sweet, no sond
<bhale> sound*
<bhale> i'm sure you hear that all the time :)
<bhale> crimsun: ah im dumb, feisty upgrade set PCM mixer to 0
* pygi notes what a junk of package brasero is
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<ajmitch> pygi: fix it up
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<pygi> ajmitch, I'm fixing it already, no worries :)
* imbrandon considers upgrading horatio to feisty and riding the wave
<Lathiat> i upgraded my deskto plast night
<Lathiat> including the "desktop crack" button
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i upgraded my laptop but i rarely use my laptop at home
<imbrandon> soo
<ajmitch> yeah, currently I've just upgraded the laptop to feisty, the desktop hasn't had the upgrade love yet
<xopher> humm, anyone from the helsinki area here? I need to get my gpg-key signed.. Or is there a virtual way to confirm my identity?
<Lathiat> xopher: gpg signing is generally a physical thing
<xopher> So Ive read yeah
<Lathiat> doesnt necesarily need to be anyone from ubuntu i dont think?
<pygi> Lathiat, someone from MOTU people ^_^
<pygi> or core-dev
<xopher> right, dont think a MOTU lives next door
<pygi> xopher, heh
<pygi> perhaps he/she does :P
<ajmitch> you're more likely to find a debian developer
<pygi> that is also a problem in Croatia :P
<xopher> hhehe
<pygi> xopher, I can count one MoTU from Croatia :P
* ajmitch doesn't quite have the same problem, thankfully
<pygi> ajmitch, right ^_^
<xopher> pygi, is there a list of MOTUs somewhere? :P
<pygi> xopher, ofcourse, but not where they live ^_^
<imbrandon> i dont think there is a MOTU in the same square miles of me as croatia is
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> xopher: look for debian developers in helsinki
<pygi> imbrandon, I must say I lost you on that one :P
<xopher> allright
<xopher> thanks
<imbrandon> e.g if you took the area of croatia and put it arround me there would not be a MOTU in my area either
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<pygi> imbrandon, ah, that :P
<imbrandon> there are lots in the US but not in the same ammount of area
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> https://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php
<pygi> imbrandon, ofcourse :P
<ajmitch> http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=helsinki
<eaglehawk> hello everybody
<eaglehawk> someone would like to comment on: why alsa not updated to 1.0.13 in edgy yet
<pygi> ajmitch, heh, just two debian devs
<joejaxx> haha ajmitch no one in nj
<ajmitch> 5 in dunedin, NZ
<ajmitch> (DDs that I know of)
<pygi> ajmitch, what does biglumber gives?
* ajmitch shrugs
<eaglehawk> someone would like to comment on: why alsa not updated to 1.0.13 in edgy yet
<ajmitch> 2 people
<ajmitch> eaglehawk: patience
<eaglehawk> ok
<pygi> ajmitch, it gives 5 people for "zageb" but I'm quite sure none of them is debian or ubuntu dev
<Hobbsee> eaglehawk: in edgy?
* ajmitch misread that as feisty already
<eaglehawk> yes edgy
<ajmitch> it will not be upgraded in edgy
<ajmitch> edgy is released
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe, thought you might have
<joejaxx> has anyone tried cdebootstrap with ubuntu?
<eaglehawk> why is so still so many sound issues with 1.0.11
<eaglehawk> 1.0.13 might fix many laptop and front speaker and hda-intel issues?
<minghua> eaglehawk: "might"? do you have concrete examples?
<joejaxx> it seems like i am going to have to modify a debian upstream package and fork it because it does not work with ubuntu
<Hobbsee> eaglehawk: it's also likely to break many more things.  edgy is released
<eaglehawk> hobbsee: what can it break as 1.0.13 is the final release and it fixes many audio codecs as stated on the alsa website and bugtracker?
<crimsun> bhale: yep, a bug (known: #21804 ), hopefully addressed this release
<bddebian> minghua: Sorry was bathing the kids and putting them to bed.  Did you still need me to look at something?
<minghua> bddebian: yes, ygraph
<minghua> bddebian: you old merge had a lot of build-system diffs
<minghua> bddebian: which I don't understand (and think they are just uncleaned autotools-generated junk)
<bddebian> minghua: Yeah, should be fine
<minghua> bddebian: I'll file sync request then, thanks
<bddebian> NP
<fernando> hi all
<imbrandon> ello fernando
<fernando> hi imbrandon
<ajmitch> afternoon Burgundavia
<LaserJock> re
<Burgundavia> 'ello
<lastnode> Burgundavia, got a sec for a pm?
<imbrandon> ugh that does it
<imbrandon> desktop is getting feisty
<zul> muhahaha its alive
* imbrandon crosses fingers
<imbrandon> heya zul
<zul> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to make a feisty chroot at the moment :/
<zul> make an edgy chroot and upgrade?
<pygi> LaserJock, hm, debootstrap ?
<LaserJock> well the edgy dchroot is all weird
<LaserJock> it depends on schroot
<LaserJock> and then there is no /etc/dchroot.conf
<LaserJock> so I started wondering what happened to it
* ajmitch selectively upgrades to feisty
<LaserJock> so dchroot is dead or something
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well i'm editing the sources.list, i think i'm gonna blow my uptime and dive right in
<rmjb> hi, how can I get an updated source package into feisty?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Yes, since schroot can do anything dchroot can.
<rmjb> I tested dmraid rc13 on a feisty pbuilder and it worked... should I upload to revu or something?
<StevenK> There's a document in schroot about migrating.
<pygi> rmjb, what do you wanna update?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I'm doing it a few packages at a time right now
<rmjb> pygi: dmraid
<pygi> rmjb, that is where? universe?
<rmjb> yeah
<ajmitch> imbrandon: my uptime will disappear once I do some xen testing anyway
<LaserJock> StevenK: hmm, ok
<pygi> ah,k, revu is sane choice
<imbrandon> 450 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<imbrandon> Need to get 449MB of archives.
<imbrandon> here we go
<LaserJock> StevenK: schroot seems much more difficult to set up though
<zakame> who pingedme earlier?
<rmjb> pygi:  okay, I just checked, debian unstable is up to dmraid rc13... should I check MoM then?
<pygi> rmjb, I think we'll auto-sync then or something
<rmjb> okay, there's a conflict and I'll resolve it
<LaserJock> zakame: we were talking about electricsheep
<zakame> LaserJock: oh
<zakame> LaserJock: what about it?
<zakame> aside from my mistake? :P
<LaserJock> that's all
<zakame> ah hehe
<LaserJock> well, your changelog should also list the specific changes you kept
<LaserJock> so we can keep track better
<zakame> should we really do that? after all there is the previous changelog entry; what I'd keep track of are the changes _not_ kept in the latest merge
<LaserJock> yes, it is now policy
<LaserJock> to list the Ubuntu changes you kept
<zakame> hmm ok; where's the policy document?
<LaserJock> not sure if we have a document for that
<imbrandon> it was sent to the devel list
<LaserJock> there was an email from Keybuk
<LaserJock> we do need a doc for it, perhaps it's on the DevelopersResources page
<rmjb> motus & hopefuls should also subscribe to the devel list?
<zakame> waah, a policy only documented in email, what a shame :(
<LaserJock> rmjb: of course :-)
<imbrandon> rmjb, well a MOTU is a ubuntu-dev so i would say so
<LaserJock> at least ubuntu-devel-announce
* zakame searches the -devel for it
<rmjb> any others? I'm only on motu
<zakame> rmjb: your locoteam list, if it has one :)
<imbrandon> rmjb, depends on the teams your part, of or intrested in
<rmjb> for now only motu
<rmjb> and I don't think there's more than 20 ubuntu users in Trinidad
<imbrandon> well motu is a developer thus the name of the group is ubuntu-dev :)
<rmjb> hmm should also join that channel too I guess
* rmjb is still learning
<zakame> oh there we go, "Merge Policy Change"
<zakame> where should I put that in the wiki? MOTU/Documentation/Merging/Policy?
<LaserJock> you could put it there for the time being
<LaserJock> I'll probably merge it in with some other policy stuff later
<LaserJock> so it'll probably move around
<zakame> ok, I'll do just that :D
<imbrandon> MOTU/Processes/Merging ?
<imbrandon> most of that type things are in the processes namespace
<LaserJock> either way, I'll probably move stuff around anyway ;-)
<imbrandon> i think after tonight i'll have uploaded more packages already to feisty than the whole edgy cycle
<imbrandon> wow
<ajmitch> zakame: generally current policy should be on DeveloperResources
<zakame> LaserJock: ok, saved it under MOTU/merging/Policy
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I find that hard to believe, just how many packages are you uploading tonight?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, that's more of a Main thing isn't it?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it documents it for the whole distro
<zakame> ajmitch: too late, just ssaved it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i mean to feisty altogather, but after i finish tonight about 10, i forgot how many i did in the edgy cycle ( i'm sure its probably more though )
<LaserJock> hmm, that reminds me
<LaserJock> I'm supposed to be working on the Ubuntu Developer's Reference :(
<zakame> ajmitch: well I'll just be leaving the moving-around to LaserJock then while merging ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not bad, you'll probably do about 20x more than me :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nah i tend to do alot at the begning and end
<imbrandon> not much in the middle
<imbrandon> dunno why
<ajmitch> you'll still do more
<ajmitch> I'll just try & slay some dragons like FDS
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> here be dragons
<imbrandon> hrm upgrade to feisty done, guess i should cross my fingers and reboot
<LaserJock> reboot???
<imbrandon> if i'm not back in a few, tell my mum i fought the dragons well
<LaserJock> you're going to reboot a feisty machine?? ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea new kernel
<LaserJock> should be fine, the forums say so anyway :-)
<imbrandon> LOL
<pygi> LaserJock, forums say a lot of things
<imbrandon> well ..... i dunno what to say to that
<imbrandon> except we have reasons to upgrade
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> anybody got a feisty schroot set up?
<ajmitch> will a xen domain do instead?
<minghua> what is the difference between a feisty chroot and a feisty schroot?
<LaserJock> nope, I haven't figured Xen out
<LaserJock> schroot is an app to manage chroots, I think
<minghua> that's my understanding as well
<LaserJock> I'm trying to create a feisty chroot
<minghua> so LaserJock did you mean "who had feisty schroot program installed and set up"?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but I figured people would know what I meant ;-)
<minghua> well you know I am not a native speaker :-P
<imbrandon> LaserJock, why not just make an edgy one and upgrade it ?
<imbrandon> btw the upgrade went smooth and i'm back
<imbrandon> hopefully it will stay this way lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, no. The issue is not that it's feisty
<LaserJock> it's that I can't figure out how to make a chroot with schroot
<imbrandon> oh
<LaserJock> as dchroot seems to be depreciated
<imbrandon> should be the same, they are interchangeable afaik
<imbrandon> i've only use dchroot
<minghua> LaserJock: by "make chroot", did you mean "create a chroot environment"?
<imbrandon> minghua, yes, that is what that means
<minghua> because when I used dchroot, I created a chroot environment using debootstrap first, then just point dchroot to it
<StevenK> LaserJock: schroot has a compatibility mode.
<imbrandon> correct
<LaserJock> ah, well that's true I suppose
<LaserJock> but I'm stuck with how to use it
<StevenK> LaserJock: It will read a dchroot.conf
<LaserJock> maybe I should just give up on dchroot/schroot
<LaserJock> I suppose I don't *have* to have it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, nah
<LaserJock> I've just always done it that way
<StevenK> You could always just use 'sudo chroot' ?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, did you read the wiki on debootstrap ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: of course
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> sorry guys, I'm feeling stupid here
<LaserJock> my main issue was there was no /etc/dchroot.conf
<LaserJock> so I was a little confused about what to do
<LaserJock> StevenK: so I should be able to just create a /etc/dchroot.conf and schroot will be ok with it
<minghua> syn match debchangelogTarget    contained "\( stable\| frozen\| unstable\| testing-proposed-updates\| experimental\| sarge-backports\| sarge-volatile\| stable-security\| testing-security\)\+"
<minghua> Hmm, this is going to be messy for ubuntu
<minghua> (that's vim's debian/changelog distribution checking I mentioned earlier)
<zakame> hmm making a chroot?
<joejaxx> nice
<joejaxx> i just tricked deboostrap
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> :)
<zakame> did it get angry?
<joejaxx> now
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> i am downloading a powerpc chroot to my 386 machine
<minghua> wait until debootstrap realize she was tricked
<LaserJock> bah, this scibuntu is frustrating :/
<zakame> ah, --arch=ppc
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> that does not work
<joejaxx> LaserJock: scibuntu?
<zakame> new tribe?
<minghua> zakame: some script
<imbrandon> joejaxx, good luck with getting anything to work that way :) you have to do some bin_fmt and qemu trickery , trust me i've spent the last 3 ro 4 months working on it
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :D
<joejaxx> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /home/joejaxx/random/edit mount -t proc proc /proc
<joejaxx> HAHA
<zakame> imbrandon: there's been some easier(?) news about setting up mipsel and m68k buildds on i386 though
<LaserJock> now they want it to be an "official" Ubuntu flavor
<imbrandon> zakame, yea but its still with qemu and bin-fmt trickery
<zakame> arcane, isn't it
<minghua> LaserJock: people can always dream
<joejaxx> LaserJock: are you serious?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=298784
* joejaxx needs to finish his ubuntu derivative guidelines spec
<imbrandon> http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2006/11/google-sponsors-linuxbios-project.html#links
* zakame needs to eat
<imbrandon> ajmitch, we really should have poked someone about speeding up pbuilder dependancy checking at MTV
<LaserJock> imbrandon: do it!
* imbrandon is listening to Never Been to Spain by Three Dog Night [Amarok] 
<crimsun> you're in the motu trinity, you should be able to fix it!
* imbrandon is compiling in zune(tm) support to amarok for feisty, ohhh the pain
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lol
<zakame> wahahaha
<imbrandon> crimsun, hehe
<crimsun> and there's no such thing as pain, since you're in the motu trinity
<crimsun> (oh you three are screwed now :-)
<imbrandon> yea i can see it
<imbrandon> s/it/that
<imbrandon> :)
* bddebian is glad he isn't in it
<joejaxx> :P
<crimsun> bddebian: yes you are
<pygi> whats all this mess about? :P
<bddebian> crimsun: What have I done lately?  Nothing :-(
* zakame has been fortunate he's just returning
<crimsun> bddebian: fortunately you're a deity; you don't have to do anything :-p
<bddebian> Uhm, yeah
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, God rested on the 7th day, you get to rest for a release or so ;-)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i need some new tunes, i'm getting tired of this collection
<zakame> old-time-radio
<bddebian> LaserJock: I HOPE I'm not out through ALL of Feisty :-(
<imbrandon> am radio
* imbrandon is listening to AM Radio by Everclear on Songs From An Amercian Movie [Amarok] 
<crimsun> eek, Herd 1 by the end of the month
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> crimsun, yea two weeks
<zakame> hmm, The Herd
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<LaserJock> I was kinda surprised
<crimsun> [0]  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<imbrandon> i was too, so soon
<bddebian> Oh, sheesh
<LaserJock> I think it's a probably a good idea though
<zakame> naah nothing the motu trinity can't handle ;)
<LaserJock> get something people can start doing installation tests, etc on
<crimsun> zakame: precisely
* LaserJock plays some Queen in his head, whilst merging Main
<imbrandon> Rebuild Test, Upgrade Testing begins
<joejaxx> yeah i do not like edgy :(
<imbrandon> ^^ glad to see some upgrad testing this time
<joejaxx>  4605 joejaxx   25   0 88088  34m  19m R 99.0  2.7 343:24.16 nautilus
<joejaxx> 99% cpu
<joejaxx> that is ridiculous
<zakame> LaserJock: main merges require debdiffs from a MOTU right?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, you have a room full of apples and no itunes library ? heh
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sadly no
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we are scientists, music would be too ... normal
<imbrandon> zakame, huh? main merges only require a main sponsor to upload them, anyone can make one, even a non-MOTU
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha right on
<LaserJock> actually, there's nothing quite as fun as the lasers running at 10Hz with the big speakers pumping out Credence Clearwater Revival
<zakame> imbrandon: just checking, thanks
<joejaxx> and it is still taking up over 90% cpu
<imbrandon> ( but its standard proc to poke the last person to touch the package before starting on it )
<zakame> imbrandon: hmm so something like debian's RFS system right?
<imbrandon> sorta i guess, never thoguht abotu it like that
<imbrandon> but yea
<LaserJock> schroot hates me :(
<LaserJock> I can't get it to take dchroot.conf
<LaserJock> and it doesn't like my attempt at a schroot.conf
<LaserJock> go figure
<zakame> schroot: do not want
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe it's ok :/
<imbrandon> nano bip/bip.conf
<imbrandon> ger
<nixternal> hey, with multiple pbuilders, using the latest debootstrap is ok?
<imbrandon> nixternal, i am with no issues, yes, but i'm not a pbuilder expert
<nixternal> ok, i was guessing it was ok, otherwise you wouldn't be able to do multiple pbuilders
<crimsun> "latest" being...?
<crimsun> and yes, it appears to be fine here
<nixternal> well, im actually using the one from the edgy repos
<crimsun> it->edgy
<zakame> I have multiple dchroots with a pbuilder in each of them
<LaserJock> hmm, is it ok bindmount /tmp?
<crimsun> carefully.
<zakame> yeah, no probs so far
<imbrandon> i dunno about temp but watch bindmouting somthing under your pbuolder root like /var/cache/pbuilder/edgy/result or similar
<imbrandon> that can get messy
<zakame> right
<zakame> brb, good eats
<imbrandon> the only think i auto bindmount is ccache dir, and i manualy bindmoutn my /home so i can use files when i pbuilder login
<zakame> circle-jerk-bindmount
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm talking about bindmounting in a chroot
<LaserJock> not a pbuilder
<minghua> IIRC pbuilder man page advise against bindmounting /var/cache/apt/archives/
<imbrandon> well a pbuilder is essentialy a chroot that gets reset at logout
<imbrandon> so alot of the same apply
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> but I'm not bindmounting something under my pbuilder root is what I'm saying
<LaserJock> I'd much rather use a pbuilder for this :/
<LaserJock> maybe I should look into some hooks
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> all I want to do is to be able to test installs
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i have a hook already made for that
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm
<imbrandon> infact in test upgrades, , clean installs, removes and purges
<crimsun> 89dpkg-i
<LaserJock> oh, I know why I didn't want that
<LaserJock> I want to be able to also test functionality
<LaserJock> so for an app that uses X I'm not sure how to run it from within a pbuilder
<imbrandon> ahh
<crimsun> I use a separate chroot for that
<LaserJock> imbrandon: where are the hooks stored?
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that's what I was going to do, but I'd like to avoid it if I can
<imbrandon> on horatio? /media/devel/edgy/hooks
<LaserJock> I don't have a ton of space for chroots
<minghua> LaserJock: you most likely do NOT want to bind mount /tmp if you want to test X apps in the chroot
<minghua> or be CAREFUL, as crimsun said
<LaserJock> maybe I should just find a machine to upgrade to feisty :/
<imbrandon> LaserJock, leslie posted the video of marks speech on the google code blog
<imbrandon> were you still there when he gave it ?
<LaserJock> his speech on what?
<LaserJock> probably not I'm guessing
<imbrandon> when all the google people came from the other building and mark explaind about ubutnu direction
<LaserJock> ah, no
<imbrandon> it was about an hour speach i think on thursday
<imbrandon> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2728972720932273543&q=type%3Agoogle+engEDU   is the direct link
<imbrandon> and leslie's post http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2006/11/ubuntu-developer-summit-at-google.html
<imbrandon> i might blog about it for planet , as i dont think most read the google code blog
<LaserJock> darn it, stupid flash 9
<imbrandon> you can download the avi ( link on the right )
<imbrandon> if you dont have flash or its broke
<LaserJock> I'm downloading it
<LaserJock> Flash 9 often seems to play only the first like 30 s or so
<imbrandon> hrm i just played about the first 10 minutes of it, but then i stoped it as i seen it live
<imbrandon> soooo
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> oh wow, I just logged into my first sparc machine
<imbrandon> haha nice
<imbrandon> ubuntu ?
<imbrandon> or solaris
<LaserJock> SunOS twilight 5.10 Generic_118833-22 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-V240
<LaserJock> is that solaris?
<imbrandon> yes
<LaserJock> first time I've seen solaris too
<minghua> LaserJock: I can't believe it.  You've been in US university all these years and never used a Sun machine?
<imbrandon> heh its unixy you should be at home, only minor diffrences, well major ones , but the basics are the same
<LaserJock> minghua: no
<LaserJock> minghua: we use mostly dells :-)
<minghua> even the student PC labs here at RIce used to run Solaris when I came here
<imbrandon> depending on the sysadmin most solaris boxes have gnu tools too sooo
<rvalles> 06:23:35 <   minghua> even the student PC labs here at RIce used to run Solaris when I came here
<LaserJock> some groups have ancient SGI machines
<rvalles> in fib (www.fib.upc.edu) we have some solaris servers and tons of sunray terminals
<LaserJock> but even our computational clusters are AMD machines
<imbrandon> well the new sun's are amd's too :)
<rvalles> also, on the computers' architecture department underground level, there are lots of racks which use all sort of architectures
<imbrandon> opterons
<nixternal> W: /home/nixternal/.pbuilderrc does not exist   <-- is this major?  i have a pbuilderrc in pbuilder/feisty/
<LaserJock> well, like AMD 1800+
<rvalles> (which is kinda cool)
<LaserJock> nixternal: no problem
<nixternal> cool
<imbrandon> nixternal, no thats normal, you can "touch ~/.pbuilderrc" if it bugs you
<nixternal> roger that
<LaserJock> well, the sparc machine I'm on is the new uni mail server
<LaserJock> so I can't have any fun on it ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> they have a single box mail server setup? wowo
* ajmitch returns
<LaserJock> imbrandon: not sure, it's a single hostname
<imbrandon> ahh well that makes more sense :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I now have 3 uni mail accounts
<imbrandon> probably a small cluster behind heartbeat or roudrobin dns setup or hell there are tons of ways to setup redundant mail services
<imbrandon> but rarely on a single box unless your like me and only have 3 mail accounts on it and its a home server
<ajmitch> ooh, my panel has had most of its applets go away
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> no real surprise there
<minghua> LaserJock: is the hostname twilight.xxx...?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, feisty ?
<LaserJock> minghua: mhm
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, upgraded this afternoon
<ajmitch> haven't logged out yet
<imbrandon> yea i just did, everything seems smooth here, suprised me
<LaserJock> well, they haven't broken anything yet have they?
<imbrandon> but theres another kde update sitting on the buildd's waiting for me
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course not
<ajmitch> the fun begins next week
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea thats next week
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I told the forums
<LaserJock> they were like "Feisty is pretty solid, you should upgrade"
<imbrandon> LOL
<ajmitch> don't get me started on the forums...
<ajmitch> I think the least stable time is around feature freeze
<imbrandon> i cant wait for the furms BoF recording to go public and everyone hears how ryan talked to mark and jane in the BoF
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that bad?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, well jane cursed and mark left the room temporarly
<imbrandon> if that says much
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ouch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I didn't hear any of that
<Lathiat> whoah
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, that's actually not as bad as I thought
<imbrandon> it all worked out in the end but it was an interesting ride
<Lathiat> which ryan?
<imbrandon> Lathiat, the fourm founder
<Lathiat> righto
<crimsun> that just makes me love the forum even more.
<crimsun> with a brick.
<ajmitch> and he got what he wanted, too
<LaserJock> yeah, I was reading the spec
<imbrandon> for about 10 minutes me and jono are sitting in the back of the room thinking about how long it would be before we started forums.ubuntu.com , but then it calmed down and real work got done
<ajmitch> the spec is full of "this isn't an attack"
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea , lol, thats the lovely part
<LaserJock> with "Ryan must have full control" mixed in
<ajmitch> there's a lot of compromise here
<ajmitch> in 1 direction
<imbrandon> basicly he dident want to give control to the CC but wanted it to be official etc etc etc, ego's were flying
<ajmitch> ie, "make me important"
<imbrandon> and the funny part was like 3 or 4 members from the CC were in the room ( mako mark elmo , ummmmm )
<ajmitch> I'm glad I was in another bof
<LaserJock> well, he fired half the forum staff without any explanation to the community
<imbrandon> anyhow it was by far the most "interesting" BoF i atteneded to say the leaste
<LaserJock> apparently he just had an issue with them
<ajmitch> why is it just about this 1 guy?
<imbrandon> even the accelerated X and composite-by-default were more sane
<LaserJock> because he is the forum sabdfl
<LaserJock> it's his show
<imbrandon> LaserJock, not anymore
<ajmitch> he was just in the right place to get people together
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm not so sure, I'm still skeptical
<imbrandon> canonical owns the domain and stuff now and its under the control of the CC , like i said it all worked out in the end , but it was a wild ride
<LaserJock> I think in the end it'll fork
<imbrandon> its just a matter of conversion etc now
<LaserJock> I just don't seem him going along with it too much
<imbrandon> *hopes*
<imbrandon> well at this point all he can do is turn them off, and within minutes a backup will be restored and his ip banned and he will have to go infront of the CC to explain why
<nixternal> imbrandon: that merge, would this be the correct version -> kvirc (2:3.2.4-6ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<ajmitch> imbrandon: he gave up the domain?
<nixternal> it is 2:3.2.4-6 from unstable
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea he pretty much had to as he has been accepting money for it
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> from canonical
<crimsun> "As forums founder, Ryan Troy will be assigned lifetime membership dependent on his continued desire to serve on the council and continued compliance with the Ubuntu Code of Conduct and LeadershipCodeofConduct"
<ajmitch> that's the best piece of news I've heard
<ajmitch> crimsun: the condition there is good
<ajmitch> if it's enough
<imbrandon> crimsun, yea , it means if he followes the CoC he is still on the forums council that awnsers to the CC
<zakame> back, what's the talk now?
<imbrandon> eg terms but no term limmits
<crimsun> it's not his baby; he needs to be subject to the same conditions as everyone else
<ajmitch> imbrandon: unlike every other council
<ajmitch> zakame: forums governance
<ajmitch> crimsun: the problem is that he's likely to take his toys & go home
<ajmitch> imbrandon: did he agree to give up the vbulletin license as well?
<minghua> pity it's not easy to have something like "svn annotate" on wiki, so that I can see which part is written by whom
<imbrandon> afik yes, not 100% sure
<imbrandon> minghua, mark wrote that bit that crimsun posted, i was sitting there when it was written
<zakame> ajmitch: right, reads the backlog
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<zakame> gn8 bddebian
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<zakame> gn8 god of motu
* bddebian hugs the room :-)
<minghua> I am more interested in who wrote "The forums are one of the largest and smoothest running parts of the Ubuntu community", but no big deal
<imbrandon> i just went to be a fly on the wall in those sessions
<bddebian> and pokes zakame in the eye
<minghua> hello bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<zakame> XD
<ajmitch> minghua: largest, yes
<LaserJock> minghua: hehe, I would imagine that was ubuntu_demon or whatever his name is
<Lathiat> minghua: i'd dare say its a "big part" of the user side of the community
<zakame> who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
<Lathiat> minghua: not sure whether its smooth or not tho ;)
<zakame> the sabdfl knows!
<crimsun> thankfully even the sabdfl is subject to baby jesus
<zakame> right
<minghua> Lathiat: exactly, if measured by "number of people", then yes, if measured by "contribution and influence"...
<minghua> especially _positive_ influence at that :-P
<zakame> hmm revive usenet then
<Lathiat> minghua: i still think it has a lot of "influence"
<Lathiat> on the user side of the community
<zakame> and let the chaos be contained there :P
<LaserJock> it does have a ton of influence on the user side
<elkbuntu> i specifically avoided the forum sessions... and after seeing the expressions after the first bof, i was glad :
<LaserJock> well, I wonder how many Ubuntu members they're going to make in the first month
<minghua> imbrandon: speaking of forum, do they still run ads there?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: a wise choice
<imbrandon> minghua,  i have no idea, i talked with jane breifly about it, i will email her next week again if they are still there
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 100+? :)
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, i was forewarned from many a source :)
<LaserJock> there was that interesting conversation about the TB/CC voting
<ajmitch> minghua: I haven't seen any lately, maybe my mental filter works too well
<LaserJock> I don't see any
<imbrandon> are you logged in?
<imbrandon> you only see them if you are a guest
<imbrandon> ( e.g i never goto them so i'm always a guest )
<LaserJock> ohhh
<Lathiat> im not logged in and i cant see them
<LaserJock> still not seeing any
* imbrandon looks
* Lathiat smirks at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=251004
* ajmitch is always logged in
<elkbuntu> Lathiat, if we be very quiet, they may implode each other
<minghua> I am a guest and I don't see any ads now, but no-script plugin still shows scripts from google-analytics.com
<Lathiat> google analystics isnt so bad, tho
<imbrandon> they are still there, see screen shot http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss116.png
* Lathiat waxes imbrandon's modem
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> imbrandon: dude I was just on that thread and I don't think I saw them
<imbrandon> you were probably logged in
<Lathiat> ha ha http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=296178
<Lathiat> hrm im definitely not seeing any
<Lathiat> and im not logged in
<Lathiat> not sure if i even have an account
<Lathiat> hrm ok
<Lathiat> theeres linsk on that page
<Lathiat> is taht in that guys signature or something? ;p
<imbrandon> heh well i dident doctor the screenshot in that little ammount of time :)
<imbrandon> no thats on every thread, 2 times per page
<Lathiat> if i goto that threat they are there
<Lathiat> "The way I see it if you can get put X into the initrd and boot it directly with the kernel then X on its own doesnt need anything running but the kernel."
<LaserJock> ahhh, now I see it
<LaserJock> sneaky buggers
<elkbuntu> im yet to see one, and im logged out...
<Lathiat> i saw them on that page, but not others...
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder if they are in that guys sig, if so he should be banned perminately from the forums
<minghua> I see one now, too
<LaserJock> imbrandon: geeze dude, on enough channels ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's nothing :)
<imbrandon> hahah LaserJock i just restarted irc a few hours ago, i'm normaly in more
* Lathiat has 43 irssi windows atm
<elkbuntu> haha. idlerpg, them was the days :
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't do more then ~10
<imbrandon> i'm normaly after about a week of running irc in about 75
<imbrandon> on 3 or 4 networks
* Lathiat is on 11 networks
<Lathiat> ozorg, gimpnet, efnet, scifi-fans, austnet, freenode, irc.perl.org, enterthegame, and 3 private ones
<LaserJock> wow
<LaserJock> I *just* started getting on oftc
<LaserJock> I've only been on freenode
<imbrandon> well 2 or 3 of the chans i'm in are invite only , most all are public
<minghua> these ads are pretty sneaky
<Lathiat> having closed all my windows im on 31 channels atm
<imbrandon> minghua, yea they dont always showup
<Lathiat> s/windows/private message windows
<minghua> it seems the probability is pretty low
<LaserJock> ok people, I'm off to bed
<imbrandon> gnight
<imbrandon> still not right considering everything is paid for by canonical ( even some of his time iirc )
<Lathiat> if thats the case then i agree they should be removed
<Lathiat> if he was running it off his own steam i wouldnt mind so much
<Lathiat> i dont think i've ever clicked a google ad witha ny serious intent in my life
<Lathiat> or any other ad
<Lathiat> i clicked a couple to see what they were
<Lathiat> like one that said "openoffice too slow, abiword missing all the features?"
<imbrandon> definately the domain and hosting ( even backdated pre-official ) is paid for by canonical, but i'm about 80% sure his time is to to a lesser extent
<imbrandon> that came up in the BoF
<zakame> hmm a cat (to replace) is fine too
<ajmitch> imbrandon: and he still demands everything?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yup
<ajmitch> wow
<zakame> now that rather spoils the broth
<imbrandon> ajmitch, it was said in the BoF ( the only reason i know this 100% is because it came from janes lips ) that they have ben comensating the hosting and domain for 2 years
<elkbuntu> there are people like that in the world, unfortunately
<imbrandon> compen....
<imbrandon> blah
<zakame> gomen
<Lathiat> i still think this GL usplash sounds like a good idea ;)
<imbrandon> like i said, i cant eait for some of these recordings to be "cleaned" up as NG said and released
<imbrandon> wait*
<imbrandon> mostly just for the forum info
<imbrandon> :)
<zakame> hehehe, can't eat
<minghua> nah.  after reading the whole wiki page I am still not convinced the forum thing will work out eventually
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3434
<elkbuntu> minghua, blood will be drawn before it is over. i am sure of it.
<imbrandon> nixternal, kk
<nixternal> can't test build as the kdelibs4 hasn't been merged by jr yet
<minghua> elkbuntu: noted.  I think I'll avoid ubuntu gatherings until it's over then :-P
<imbrandon> nixternal, you mean 3435 ?
<elkbuntu> minghua, no need to avoid ubuntu gatherings, just watch the forum fun from afar, preferably with popcorn
<zakame> hmm speaking of gatherings ubuntu-ph will have its release party tonight ;)
<imbrandon> minghua, well that was a very small part of the UDS, the rest was very productive :)
<minghua> yeah, I was just kidding.  I really wanted to go to Mt. View, as it doesn't come to US often
<nixternal> ya imbrandon, sorry about that
<Hobbsee> hey all
<imbrandon> ello
<elkbuntu> hi Hobbsee!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you fixed universe yet? :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ubuntu-es]  by imbrandon
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu!!!!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope, i've been doing an exam
<imbrandon> :/
<zakame> yo Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zakame> eerm KFC beat us all
<zakame> Hobbsee: how's your exam?
<imbrandon> mmmm KFC sounds good
<imbrandon> to bad its closed right now
<Hobbsee> zakame: wasnt too bad.  boring, and some stuff that i'd never seen before, which i had no chance of rubbishing :P
<zakame> imbrandon: KFC's just right down our offic... and now, in space
<imbrandon> ?
<zakame> wellm, the company logo at least
<zakame> see /.
<imbrandon> ahh yea i seen that on the news
<imbrandon> makes me want some chicken :)
<zakame> hehe
<zakame> much of my last week were chicken dinners
<macogw> hey
<zakame> yo macogw
<macogw> if i wanna help, do i talk to you guys?
<macogw> my programming's not on par to do any real development (yet...must learn a more useful language than java)
<zakame> sure, you want to help? :)
<macogw> yeah
<macogw> idk how to help though
<zakame> yo've seen the links on /topic?
<macogw> i looked at them during edgy-devel-time, but not in a while
<Mez> macogw, it's a good place to start
<zakame> you can lookinto them now if you want to do some packaging work :)
<macogw> ok
<zakame> you can also help greatly by hooking up with the bugsquad and help in triaging bugs
<macogw> have you seen getdeb.net (i think?)
<macogw> there are .deb's for things not in the repositories
<macogw> avoiding building from source == always good
<imbrandon> macogw: not really, i would rather see someone build from source than use a deb from a shady unknown person/place
<zakame> building from source is essential if you want to get that particular package in the archive
<Hobbsee> and then stick the decent source in the repos
<zakame> as a matter of fact, the only way you can upload to the ubuntu archive is by source
<imbrandon> hrm , see yall after bit, i'm out for a while
<imbrandon> would be nice if they ( getdeb.net ) followed the GPL and provided the source packages also
<imbrandon> someone might wanna clue them in
* imbrandon is afk
<macogw> well that attempt at using compiz failed
<macogw> miserably
<Mez> macogw,Hmm... I should talk to the getdeb.net people... they're just wasting time... have they not heard about backports?
<macogw> one of my friends who works on ubuntu-guide showed me that site when i was like "bah i dont want to install ____ from source. pain in the ass" (i think it was inkscape..)
<macogw> by the way, there's no inkscape package in the edgy repos
<macogw> er...
<macogw> i'm confused
<macogw> when i tried to apt-get it the other night it wouldnt work and i had to hunt it and dependencies down, but now it shows in synaptic.  either it's only showing because it's installed or i'm insane.
<macogw> it said it was a missing package that others referenced but wasnt there (or something to that effect)
<zakame> have you tried `apt-get -f install`?
<imbrandon> not only is inkscape in the repo's its in main
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~/devel/amarok$ apt-cache madison inkscape
<imbrandon>   inkscape | 0.44-1ubuntu2 | http://192.168.1.5 feisty/main Packages
<imbrandon>   inkscape | 0.44-1ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/main Packages
<imbrandon> macogw, ^^
<macogw> i have it installed now cuz i downloaded the package elsewhere
<macogw> i dont know why synaptic and apt-get both said it doesnt exist though
<macogw> sometimes my computer makes NO SENSE
<macogw> like when it pretends my sound card and wireless card don't exist
<zakame> computer haet macogw :(
<macogw> if it's not nice i'm gonna go all "bah! no more comp sci major!" again...and this time i'll swear off software and keep chugging on hardware (last time i accidentally wiped a hdd, i swore off hardware....it lasted about 3 or 4 years)
<imbrandon> onces not much use without the other
<macogw> i mean tinkering
<macogw> like i wouldnt tinker with hardware for a few years after i messed up
<imbrandon> ahh well if you are tinkering with software then breakage shouldnt frustrate you , its a normal thing while tinkering :)
<macogw> and if my computer drives me insane, it'll be software tinkering that gets ditched
<macogw> if i'm tinkering and it breaks, ok fine, my fault
<macogw> when things randomly quit working....NOT COOL
<macogw> and why why why does autohide on panels in edgy not work?
<imbrandon> well people rarely realize how every piece of software can potentialy affect unrelated software, thus it looks random but rarely is
<macogw> yeah i suppose
<macogw> i think nautilus is still a bit borked from the edgy upgrade.  like i said, panels don't autohide, and soundjuicer crashes when i open it....at least i can browse through folders (graphically) now though (after a few hours of tinkering post-upgrade)
<imbrandon> :)
<macogw> and there have been like 5000 "this bug has been marked as a duplicate of that one" for all those crashy things...still waiting for the fix
<macogw> i'm confused
<Hobbsee> netsplit
<Hobbsee> different server to usual, too
<StevenK> But Freenode doesn't say which two split...
<Hobbsee> * has left this server (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
<macogw> alright ive been up for 43 hours, so i'm going to sleep
<macogw> good night
<Hobbsee> yes, just one of them
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, * has left this server (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). that just tells you the server your connected to
<imbrandon> e.g. i'm on sterling
<Hobbsee> good point
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> gnight all
<zakame> gnught imbrandon
<ivoks> urgh...
<ivoks> how to make life miserable
<ivoks> try working with asterisk source :)
<ivoks> (in debian)
<crimsun> hmph, need to merge alsa-lib 1.0.13-1ubuntu1 to push the pulseaudio stuff out of depwait
* crimsun makes a note to ... note doko
<crimsun> guess that means I need to add a pulse directive to asoundconf(1), too, after alsa-plugins 1.0.13-3 builds successfully
<zakame> or another warp drive
<crimsun> kinda unwieldy, though :-)
<zakame> hmm what's the deal with mailping, how do I resolve its versioning?
<zakame> I see the last merge had 0.0.4ubuntu2, while debian has 0.0.4-0.1 already
<ivoks> that's wrong
<crimsun> punch the last person in the gut
<ivoks> right :)
<ivoks> crimsun: hobbse? :)
<crimsun> you need to hand-merge 0.0.4-0.1's changes into 0.0.4ubuntu3
<crimsun> Changed-By: Pierre Habouzit <madcoder@debian.org>
* Fujitsu has two of those stupidly versioned ones.
<Fujitsu> Or was it three...
<ivoks> mailping (0.0.4ubuntu2) edgy; urgency=low
<ivoks> -- Sarah Hobbs <hobbsee@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:31:53 +1000
<Fujitsu> Unfortunately, that's what NMUing of native packages does :(
<crimsun> ivoks: native, so sarah's correct
<StevenK> NMU'ing native packages is a little ... odd.
<ivoks> oooooh
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> sorry sarah
<Fujitsu> StevenK: s/odd/really really wrong and bad/, you mean?
<zakame> right, an NMU of a native package
<zakame> not time dates
<zakame> *note the dates
<StevenK> I don't think Policy says anything about it, so you can't beat people.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It does, I saw it a couple of days back...
<Fujitsu> ANd it says to add -0.1 :(
<StevenK> And it neatly screws us up, which is a bonus for some DDs.
<Fujitsu> `If there is no debian-revision component in the version number then one should be created, starting at `0.1'.'
<StevenK> Which section is this?
<Fujitsu> (in the Debian Developer's Reference(tm), not the policy itself)
* zakame takes time off mailping and merges mindi
<StevenK> Oh. You can't belt people with the devref.
<Fujitsu> Oh, good.
<StevenK> They are "best practises", not Policy.
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> And yes, they do very neatly completely screw us up... And some DDs will love that
<zakame> mindi's better, if not for the b-d change its a mighty fine sync
<Fujitsu> *!
* TheMuso hasn't seen a response from \sh_away so decides to file a bug requesting a review/upload of alsaplayer.
<TheMuso> Actually...
<TheMuso> Thats a sync
<TheMuso> Sync policy is still the same? Just want to be sure.
<TheMuso> Wow. Are there enough tags?
<crimsun> TheMuso: same as for Edgy after Scott's mail to -announce
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thought so.
<TheMuso> hmmm. Is it wise to not depend on a transitional package?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee!!!
<TheMuso> Howd the exams go?
<crimsun> I generally don't generate a delta unless absolutely necessary
<TheMuso> crimsun: By delta I am guessing you mean some kind of change...
<crimsun> right, an adjustment to debian/control given your question
<TheMuso> Right.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!  wasnt too bad
<TheMuso> Good to hear.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Right. Because thats what the difference is between a sync and a merge for alsaplayer. The merge changes a dependancy to depend on an actual library, whereas the debian package uses a transitional package.
<TheMuso> So thats why I ask.
<crimsun> if it builds currently with the sync, I'd sync
<TheMuso> Pretty sure that it does, but just checking again for good measure.
<xopher> Any MOTUs from Finland available? Id need to get a gpg-key signed.
<bhale> there are some DD's there
<xopher> DD?
<xopher> debian devs?
<bhale> yes
<xopher> ok. What
<xopher> eh, would be the easiest way to get in contact with them
<bhale> beats me
<bhale> Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho
<bhale> this guy is there i believe
<bhale> and a few at nokia like Daniel Stone in Hellsinki
<xopher> ok, thanks a lot
<giskard> hello bhale
<xopher> You'd think it'd be easy to find someone. This Kaijanaho apparently lives ~500km away.. 
<fernando> moin all
<xerxas> there's no lbxproxy in edgy ?
<zul> hey
<sivang> hi zul
<sivang> zul: how was mtv?
<zul> sivang: pretty cool actually lots of people there
<sivang> zul: you haven't stayed for the second week ?
<zul> sivang: nope i dont work for canonical
<sivang> ah, it's only for employees?
<zul> yep
<Q-FUNK> sivang: Fred got your mail. he also got flooded with hebrew messages that appear to have legitimate questions about the linutop, except that he doesn't read hebrew...
<sivang> Q-FUNK: interesting, I can help you guys on the trnaslation front, have him forward all the mails to me and I can send you the questions in englishm you answer back, and I will asnwer them in hebrew ;)
<sivang> Q-FUNK: I told you .IL could be a great market for this :p
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<sivang> Q-FUNK: seriously, how big is the volume of the messages?
<Q-FUNK> I think that someone blogged us in .il a few days ago.  for some reason, someone must have gotten the impression that we understand hebrew, as a result.
<sivang> Q-FUNK: do you know who was that guy who blogged you?
<giskard> hello Simon80
<giskard> sivang, *
<sivang> Q-FUNK: but do forward the emails to me, I am happy to help without any attachments :-)
<sivang> hi giskard !
<sivang> giskard: how you bee doing with your telepathy uploads?
<bhale> hi giskard
* sivang high fives the al-mighty directory cesar bhale 
<bhale> directory?
<bhale> i don't know of any directory :)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> ubuntu-directory rings any bells?
<bhale> not for me.
<sivang> then I guess it's only Burgundavia and some others like whiprush or so that met over uds
<bhale> yes.
<bhale> I don't really associate with those guys
* bhale runs
<sivang> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-directory
<sivang> bhale: ^^
<giskard> sivang, bah yesterday i've uploaded the wrong version of t-sharp.
<sivang> giskard: did you upload a corrected version already ?
<bhale> sivang: uh
<sivang> bhale: ;-)
<bhale> sivang: brandon holtsclaw != me
* bhale points at imbrandon 
* sivang slaps himself
<giskard> i have to re-upload  this evening...i'm not at home
<giskard> sivang, no :(
<sivang> giskard: it's in universe right?
<giskard> no :(
<giskard> NEW
<sivang> giskard: ah, are you already approved for main?
<giskard> anyway who care about # packages? :P
<giskard> sivang, no, universe main.
<giskard> :)
<sivang> giskard: I'm happy to upload if it's in universe, I can't upload to main though.
<sivang> (yet)
* sivang runs for a minute , brb
<bhale> giskard: what is t-sharp?
<giskard> telepathy-sharp
<bhale> oh
<bhale> and where are dholbach/seb128
<giskard> sivang, i can do uploads in universe.
<bhale> i have been wondering about xulrunner
<bhale> in feisty
<giskard> bhale, canonical conf?
<bhale> are we using ff or what?
<sivang> bhale: what do you wonder about xulrunner ?
<bhale> sivang: if we will use xulrunner or firefox
<bhale> it affects mono merges
<sivang> bhale: ah I see
<bhale> debian uses xulrunner since before edgy
<sivang> bhale: so xulrunner is a rendering engine?
<bhale> yes
<bhale> its gecko
<bhale> split out
<bhale> with the xul stuff
<bhale> no UI
<sivang> bhale: how does it affect mono mergers?
<zul> heh give $5 for a feature that ill never ever use
<sivang> zul: installing ubuntu from windows? :)
<zul> yeah check the -devel mailing list
<sivang> zul: I saw that already, the 5$ asking mail
* sivang wonders if he should email the list asking 1$ donations to continue hubackup's development ;-)
* Adri2000 doesn't really understand why they need 600$ for that
<sivang> bah, going from the writing the tests and then implementing the feature is tough but does pay eventually.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bhale> sivang: because we use gecko several places?
<xopher> Ah, getting my gpg-key signed tomorrow. Now, where should I go from there, is it just to upload the packages after that?
<Adri2000> xopher: you are already a motu?
<xopher> no..
<Adri2000> you need to in order to upload :)
<zul> or you can upload to revu
<xopher> So, how do I become a MOTU? ;)
<xopher> *reading wiki*
<Adri2000> ubuntu member first
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3439
<pianoboy3333> Can anyone here help me with using git? What does `git pull` and `git fetch` do?
<zul> if you have a git archive already it pulls the new changes
<pianoboy3333> zul: what does fetch do?
<zul> git --help fetch should tell you
<sivang> bhale: say, on a related note to beagle , is it possible to query the indexer for a specific folder and it's subfolders recursively, to calculate the total size of them and to count how many files under this particular path?
<Mez> hey guys, whats the policy over changing the Maintainer Field nowadays
* pygi would really like someone to answer Mez's question :P
<Burgwork> Mez: there is a tool that munges it
<geser> afaik it is done by the buildds
<Burgwork> called binarymanagler
<sivang> Burgwork: again you surprise me with development oriented knowledge ;) is this another candidate for the "Did you know?" corenr on the UWN ? ;-)
<Burgwork> yes
<Mez> Burgwork, however, I'm on about changes to source not changes to binary
<Burgwork> don't bother changing the source, the mangler will do it
<Mez> Burgwork, how will the mangler know what to do with it ?
<pygi> Burgwork, I changed it, just because the debian maintainer builded such a junk of package
<Mez> Burgwork, this isnt changing it to MOTU ... this is something else
<Burgwork> afaik, this is the changing to MOTU
<Burgwork> look at the spec or talk to infinity
<nixternal> heh, i remember that cartoon
<zul> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey zul
<ajmitch> hi zul, dholbach
<zul> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya all
<ajmitch> morning imbrandon
<ajmitch> you're up early :)
<imbrandon> yea a bit, i had that phone interview today with GSI
<imbrandon> figured i would stay up
<imbrandon> lol
<sivang> GSI?
<ajmitch> how'd it go?
<sivang> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
<sivang> and re imbrandon
<imbrandon> ajmitch, good, they are sending me a "test" to take today and then i have an inperson interview
<ajmitch> great
<imbrandon> sivang, a webhost here in KC
<imbrandon> for a sysadmin pos
<zul> oooh...:)
<ajmitch> I guess it'd cut into your ubuntu time though
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nah, i wouldent think so, well maybe a bit, but they are an opensource shop so i'm hoping they will sponsor a bit of work too
<ajmitch> man, some people get all the luck :)
<sivang> ajmitch++ ;)
<imbrandon> from what the mgr said almost all their stuff is debian ( not ubuntu )
<imbrandon> but i'll have to see when i get in
<jdong> quick poll... Is it worth reissuing a backport because of a missing icon in the menu (but menu entry is present)?
<jdong> (bug 71546 for reference)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71546 in edgy-backports "(feisty)No icon for brasero" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71546
<pygi> jdong, uh, it's not only because of that if you're looking at brasero 0.5.0
<pygi> jdong, the initial upload of 0.5.0 was broken
<pygi> jdong, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-November/000390.html
<pygi> this fixed it
<jdong> pygi: how broken was it? I burned quite a few projects with it before allowing it thru backports
<pygi> jdong, it was extremely broken.
<jdong> pygi: can you elaborate?
<pygi> jdong, well, look at the entire changelog :)
<jdong> pygi: I see a manpage entry, a menu icon fix, and a bunch of dependency tweaking
<pygi> jdong, gtk 2.4 instead of gtk 2.6, gnome-vfs 2.14.1 while 2.14.2 is needed (2.14.1 has some serious bugs which affect brasero), libgdl was dropped once 0.4.x series was started, no versioning of gst
<jdong> pygi: {edgy,feisty} has gvfs 2.14.2+ anyway, right?
<pygi> jdong, we see same, but important changes, the right deps are here for a reason
<jdong> pygi: ./configure would bork without the newer gvfs
<pygi> jdong, indeed, but in initial upload build-dep was set on gvfs 2.14.1
<jdong> pygi: right, but the resultant binaries built in edgy and feisty wouldn't have been different....
<jdong> pygi: since gvfs 2.14.1 or less wasn't in edgy/feisty
<jdong> right?
<pygi> jdong, that's true, but baltix folks/dapper folks are requesting a backport to dapper
<jdong> pygi: right, and so far I've held off on bringing it to Dapper until some loose ends get sorted out
<jdong> pygi: namely, the dependencies we just mentioned, and dapper-backports building against dapper-updates
<pygi> jdong, whatever trouble is burning related, feel free to bug me
* jdong starts poking infinity about that again :D
<pygi> jdong, right, backports didn't build against dapper-updates before
<jdong> pygi: so you're the burning guy. I'll remember that :)
<jdong> pygi: idn if it does yet... I'm still poking about that
<pygi> jdong, once we get cdrkit synced we'll get tons of bug reports and we'll need a lot of patching
<pygi> *if cdrkit gets synced* but it probably will
<pygi> jdong, we need to sort out all burning related bits for feisty
<pygi> there are a lot of problems with that sadly
<jdong> pygi: yeah, hence I'm trying to get the last little bit of burning backported before the burning world gets turned upside down :D
<pygi> and jdong : #ubuntu-burning and http://pygi.pykix.net/?p=21
<jdong> pygi: thanks
<pygi> jdong, nah, thank you :)
<pygi> jdong, what's the gst0.10 in dapper? we need at least 0.10.6 for brasero
<jdong> err, good question
* pygi also notes to jdong he's more then welcome to join the channel mentioned above and to read the blog post on above url, will explain a lot of stuff
<jdong> libgstreamer0.10-0 | 0.10.6-0ubuntu2 |        dapper | i386
<jdong> whew :D
<pygi> jdong, yay, good for us :)
<jdong> pygi: do you think it's worth reissuing brasero 0ubuntu2 for edgy?
<pygi> jdong, yes, if you are wililng to do so I'd much appreciate it
<pygi> jdong, would help us fight with bugs which may arrise more safely
<jdong> pygi: ok then, will do so
<pygi> jdong, thanks
<pygi> jdong, it's not about that icon thingy or man page, rather about package consistency
<jdong> pygi: ok then
<jdong> pygi: and I see Mez has simultaneously marked it for backporting too :D
<Mez> jdong: lol
<pygi> jdong, I'll be packaging  0.5.1 this or early next week with libburn enabled ... that can be backported to Edgy, and sadly not to dapper
<jdong> perky backporters today I guess :D
<pygi> jdong, unless we can backport libburn & libisofs as well. which shouldnt be a problem, but I dont think we should backport that stuff to dapper :P
<jdong> Mez: I gotta head out soon care to deal with the duplicate you/I generated (look up)
<jdong> take care, be back later
<pygi> jdong, laters
<jdong> and barnacle works / is registered on LP :D
<jdong> just tested today
<Mez> jdong: no problem :D
<Mez> jdong: I'm part of the burning team and backporters, hence why I did it
<jdong> Mez: hehe, I was just randomly browsing through feisty-changes when I noticed that one
<jdong> hence me coming here and bugging you guys :D
<pygi> jdong, ^_^
* pygi is grateful for anyone's help ^_^
<mr_pouit> a little question: idjc package fails to build on edgy, a debdiff has been proposed for edgy, and a new upstream release has been accepted on feisty. What is the best solution ? try to get it trough edgy-proposed and then edgy-updates, or ask for a backport ?
<mr_pouit> *through
<mr_pouit> Bug 66475
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66475 in idjc "[DEBDIFF]  Dependency problem" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66475
<Adri2000> mr_pouit: I think edgy-updates is better because the package doesn't work at all currently
<Adri2000> mr_pouit: subscribe sru, ask someone of the sru team on this channel :)
<Adri2000> the good point is that the update won't cause any regression :p
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: ;p
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: but the package isn't "really" in edgy now, so I'm not sure it is suitable for edgy-updates :/
<imbrandon> if its not in edgy it cant be in updates
<Adri2000> the source is in edgy, but the binaries aren't because of the FTBFS
<imbrandon> ahh well then it is in edgy
<bhale> sivang: no?
<imbrandon> moins bhale
<bhale> hi imbrandon
<sivang> bhale: I would think since it indexes all the files, it would have such trivial info per each file
<bhale> that isnt exactly in its scope to recursively calculate directory sizes
<bhale> du does it just fine
<bhale> "size" isnt a useful piece of metadata to search on
<sivang> bhale: depends what you want your system to be able to do
<sivang> bhale: forget about the size, can I get the list of files/folders underneath a specific target path from the index instead of traversing through the directory tree?
<bhale> sivang: no dude.
<bhale> sivang: you are missing what beagle is about
<Mez> hmm maybe i shouldnt ahve set evo to sync fgrom gaim ...
<Mez> lol
<sivang> Mez: what does it sync from gaim?
<Adri2000> I have already asked that here, but I need more opinions, which section for homebank (http://homebank.free.fr/) ?
<Mez> sivang: theres an option to if you install evolution-plugins
<geser> Adri2000: as it only uses gtk, I wouldn't put into the gnome section
<Adri2000> geser: ok
<Adri2000> reviewers: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3441 :)
<Adri2000> argh, forgot something again
<Adri2000> sorry for flooding revu :p
* minghua frowns at upstream tarballs with autom4te.cache/ in it
<LaserJock> woot, I have a feisty machine
* nixternal does too
<zul> as do i
<nixternal> LaserJock: blog about it and see how comments you get about "is it stable yet?"
<pygi> LaserJock, I have a solaris machine =)
<LaserJock> nixternal: haha
<nixternal> people have asked me how different it is than edgy
<minghua> Adri2000: is that a 3.2 official release or 3.2 alpha2 release?
<zul> nixternal: then someone will say how about now?
<nixternal> i point to them the toolchain and lsb_release
<LaserJock> "Is it stable now?" .... "Is it stable now?"
<nixternal> haha
<ajmitch> LaserJock: careful
<zul> how about......now
<nixternal> like last night, people asking me where the isos were for feisty
* ajmitch is on the edge here
<Adri2000> minghua: news on the home page: "Homebank 3.2 final released"
<zul> ajmitch: stop doing php then
<TheMuso> WHy aren't you guys happy with chroots at this point?
<TheMuso> :0
<nixternal> ya, this box is edgy...can't have my main box on feisty until at least a herd or two passes
<ajmitch> TheMuso: you don't get the full experience
* ajmitch has upgraded both his boxes to feisty
<minghua> Adri2000: I am looking at the NEWS file
<TheMuso> Enjoy the breakfulness then.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: there is no breakage
<TheMuso> Not yet at least.
<ajmitch> that's why we're developers
<ajmitch> to fix breakage
<minghua> Adri2000: I suggest you either ask upstream release 3.2.1/3.3 (so that he can get rid of the autom4te.cache/ in tarball as well) or don't ship the NEWS file
<Adri2000> minghua: euhh, it's two different problems?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I don't have a lot of hard drive space so I just took a machine that I don't use for work and upgraded it
<minghua> Adri2000: yes, two different problems:
<TheMuso> Right
<LaserJock> chroot's take up a lot of space
<LaserJock> at least mine do
<minghua> Adri2000: (1) NEWS file not up-to-date
<LaserJock> if I could actually test apps in a pbuilder I'd do it that way
<minghua> Adri2000: (2) upstream ships autom4te.cache/ in tarball
<LaserJock> my goodness, somebody actually like one of my forum posts!
<LaserJock> *liked
<ajmitch> LaserJock: amazing!!
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this is why I don't post on the forums
<LaserJock> I know
<Adri2000> minghua: ok for the NEWS file, and for autom4te.cache/ I can remove it with a debian/rules ?
<LaserJock> but I had to say something about this Scibuntu stuff
<ajmitch> the forums aren't particularly motivating most days
<LaserJock> yeah
<sivang> ajmitch: trust me, ther are other things to get unmotivated by ;)
* sivang could name a few and could use a motivational recharge
<LaserJock> but I got this response: "LaserJock, what a remarkable explanation you gave! Wonderful! I hope there are more scientific oriented people like you, developing and expanding the glory of Ubuntu."
<LaserJock> now I just have to wait for the 5 "You suck and don't know what you are talking about. Oh yeah, you are also a Shuttleworth toadie"
<minghua> Adri2000: I have no idea what you should do with autom4te.cache/, especially since you are using CDBS
<ajmitch> LaserJock: depressing, isn't it?
<minghua> Adri2000: Ideally you should tell upstream not to ship it
<minghua> Adri2000: and what's the point of changing Categories in .desktop from "Applications" to "Application" anyway?
<minghua> Adri2000: neither of them passes desktop-file-validate
<Adri2000> I know, but most of the desktop files use "Application"
<LaserJock> many .desktops are pretty bad too ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: hear, hear.  :-)
<Adri2000> minghua: how would you do with debhelper?
<zul> mmmmm forums...so crunchy and chewey leaves a sour taste in your mouth
<minghua> Adri2000: that I don't know either (note I said particularly :-), but I assume it will be safe to remove it in the clean target
<minghua> s/particularly/especially/
<Adri2000> ok
<minghua> . o O { what's the difference between these two words...? }
<LaserJock> minghua: either would work in that context I think
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks
<joejaxx> anyone have a mac that dual boots x and 9?
<zul> later
<Adri2000> minghua: did you see "dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of directory autom4te.cache" ? I don't understand what is trying to remove it
<minghua> Adri2000: I didn't build it, so there is no way I would see that
<Adri2000> it's just the build of the source package
<minghua> Adri2000: it won't surprise me if "make clean" removes that though
<Adri2000> I don't see any "autom4te.cache" in the makefile, even in the whole source directory :/
<joejaxx> imbrandon: are you around?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: might be a little early for him yet
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> it's before dinner time
<LaserJock> ;-)
<joejaxx> i am trying to boot into macosx
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> ok
<joejaxx> but it keeps booting into system 9
<LaserJock> oh, hmm
<LaserJock> I haven't had to deal with system 9
<minghua> Adri2000: take your source package, dpkg-source -x it, and you'll see the autom4te.cache/ dir, it's in the upstream tarball
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> I think when I first started college it was like system 6 or something
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am just wondering how this thing know which one to boot into
<joejaxx> LaserJock: wow
<joejaxx> i have an original system 8.5 dosc
<LaserJock> then I went straight to OS X
<joejaxx> ;p;
<joejaxx> lol :P
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ah
<joejaxx> disc*
<Adri2000> minghua: yes yes, but I mean, a grep -R autom4te.cache homebank-3.2/ doesn't return anything
<LaserJock> usually you have to hit some cryptic key sequence during boot
<LaserJock> have you googled it?
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> yeah apple key + c brings me to sys 9
<joejaxx> but
<joejaxx> it just goes there automatically now
<LaserJock> hmm :/
<minghua> Adri2000: something in the build process removed it
<minghua> Adri2000: maybe make clean, maybe configure
<minghua> I honestly have no idea though
<minghua> autotools are still black magic to me
<Adri2000> I've just rm -rf my working directory and downloaded diff/orig/dsc from revu and dpkg-source -x
<Adri2000> at the first debuild, "ignoring deletion" doesn't appear
<Adri2000> and autom4te.cache doesn't exist anymore :)
<minghua> then I think we can exclude "make clean" already
<Adri2000> found
<minghua> (that message is from building source package BTW)
<Adri2000> black magic of dh_clean
<minghua> Hmm...  So CDBS's clean target doesn't run dh_clean?
<Adri2000> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk:
<Adri2000> clean::
<Adri2000>         dh_clean $(call cdbs_add_dashx,$(DEB_CLEAN_EXCLUDE))
<Adri2000> and if you grep autom4te.cache in /usr/bin/dh_clean you find something
<minghua> what I meant is that you are supposed to have run clean target when you build the source package
<minghua> and therefore should get the warning in the first build as well
<Adri2000> the warning was here because autom4te.cache was already deleted
<Adri2000> the first time it isn't yet deleted
<giskard> autom4te.cache shouldn't stay in a tar.gz
<_MMA_> imbrandon: ping
<nixternal> funny thing is we get picked on for restricted-drivers and we aren't free, however -> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/blog/
<LaserJock> nixternal: hahahaha
<nixternal> ya, i went to do my yearly donation, and that is what i was presented with
<nixternal> i swore in the past i just donated
<Adri2000> giskard: why? I will ask upstream to remove it for the next release, and dh_clean removes it automatically at the moment
<rmjb> hey guys, you all know any reason ~/bin would be in my $PATH in a virtual terminal but not in a gnome-terminal session?
<ajmitch> nixternal: they don't want your money, obviously :)
<nixternal> i guess not
<nixternal> and i even told them to donate 100% of my funds to the FSF and i didn't want a gift
* LaserJock quickly puts up a "Support a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU" page
<minghua> rmjb: using gdm?
<rmjb> yeah
<minghua> gdm doesn't read ~/.bash_profile, has its own $PATH setting, etc., etc.
<minghua> so look at your gdm setting
<rmjb> :s
<minghua> (exactly where, I don't really know)
<minghua> I only know the sarge version of GDM
<LaserJock> hmm, why would it have anything to do with GDM?
<LaserJock> I can see .bash_profile vs .bashrc
<minghua> well, in a standard debian system, I believe the original $PATH is read from /etc/profile
<minghua> everything else just modify it, add their own pieces
<minghua> GDM has its own $PATH though
<LaserJock> right, but how does that effect gnome-terminal?
<rmjb> is it a bash/dash issue?
<minghua> because your gnome-terminal process is a child of your X session, which is spawned in the environment set by GDM?
<minghua> or maybe I get the process relation wrong
<rmjb> a quick check off the command pstree shows gnome-terminal off init, and running bash
<minghua> anyway the reality is, whatever you change the $PATH in your /etc/profile, it applies your text terminal, and the X terminals if you use startx
<minghua> but got lost if you use GDM
<LaserJock> hmm, would you guys say that we (MOTUs) support the Universe packages?
<minghua> I just know this from experience, don't know the technical details
<LaserJock> I'm not sure "support" is the right word
<minghua> what about "take care of" them ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: in some sense we do
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how about "have an abiding hate for" ? ;)
<LaserJock> I mean, we do provide updates and security fixes as much as we can
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that won't help recruitment
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: depends on who you're looking to recruit :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> there are some universe packages for which that is certainly true
<ajmitch> we don't maintain universe packages
<ajmitch> nor do we really support them
<rmjb> minghua: when I set the option in gnome-terminal to "Run command as a login shell" it picked up the proper setting
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hmmm
<rmjb> I don't know where it gets the PATH without that option on... couldn't find anything under the System menu or in gconf-editor
<minghua> rmjb: yes, as it will read ~/.bash_profile then
<minghua> and probably /etc/profile as well
<rmjb> is there anything wrong with you all's Language Support application? mine brings up some large entries in the Default Language selection box, that look like email headers
<nixternal> advocate and upload if you are free please. thank you
<nixternal> hahaa
<nixternal> it might help if i provide a link ey
<nixternal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3439
<LaserJock> I was wondering who you were talking to
<nixternal> myself
<nixternal> i think the changelog is fine, and is the way i have always done it
<LaserJock> rmjb: looks fine to me on Edgy
<nixternal> if it needs to have the * Merge info as well as a recap of what happened previously then I can do that
<rmjb> hmm... must be the round-a-bout way I had to go through to install edgy on this fakeraid... it's not a problem I guess
<rmjb> for merging, best to use motu-tools?
<LaserJock> on merges.ubuntu.com an "updated merges" are packages that have already been merged once for feisty but have since been updated in Debian?
<kmon_> Hi
<kmon_> can I request a package not in debian via a bug in lauchpad->people->motus?
<rmjb> what package?
<kmon_> gaim-libnotify
<imbrandon> kmon_, the package isnt in debian but you want it in ubuntu ?
<kmon_> imbrandon: yep
<imbrandon> has it been packaged yet, you  just want "someone" to do it
<kmon_> not in debian, it's in an evil 3rd party repo
<nixternal> i would have left the "evil 3rd party repo" part out around imbrandon, he is a huge RMS fan
* nixternal hides
<imbrandon> well if you want to do the leg work, grab the source from the 3rd party repo and clean it up where needed
<imbrandon> and submit it to REVU
<kmon_> I've no idea on how to package
<imbrandon> if not add it to the canidates page
<imbrandon> ok then it falls into you wish "someone" to do it :)
<rmjb> where's the candidates page?
<kmon_> imbrandon: yes,... :)
<imbrandon> in that case add it to the canidates page and when "someone" gets time that is where new packagers are sent etc
<geser> I've a private deb for gaim-libnotify
<geser> should clean it up and upload to revu first
<kmon_> geser: that would be awesome
<imbrandon> rmjb, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<_MMA_> imbrandon: PM?
<kmon_> I really don't like guiications, gaim-libnotify looks more integrated into gnome
<imbrandon> _MMA_, sure
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you should just sit down for a weekend & package up everything on the candidates page :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahhahahaha
* imbrandon hands ajmitch a mt dew, go for it :)
<kmon_> imbrandon: we could pay you the beers
<kmon_> but I'm afraid that's a lot of beers, and  it would make package quality worse...
<kmon_> hehe
<LaserJock> nah
<kmon_> geser: thanks man.
<LaserJock> some of the best packaging has apparently done "under the influence"
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> I'm just glad our release manager knows when he shouldn't be releasing .isos
<imbrandon> LOL
<LaserJock> imbrandon: have you seen that in -devel ever?
<imbrandon> or when the community manager SHOULD be recruiting cheerleaders
<imbrandon> LaserJock, a time or two :)
<LaserJock> it was something like Edgy Beta where tollef is says something like "I'm not releasing now, I've had too much wine"
<LaserJock> s/is says/said/
* kmon_ leaves to bed
<kmon_> goodbye
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'm sure that it won't take you too long :)
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> I'd only be able to get through maybe 1 or 2
<imbrandon> i would be able to get like 0.5 done atm
<imbrandon> sh*t amarok is in depwait ...... /me grumbles
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> I  sure wish we could clean that list up though, it's pretty horrendous
<ajmitch> back later
<imbrandon> later
<imbrandon> LaserJock, good place to send the newbs till greyskull is formed
<nixternal> im looking at it now
<imbrandon> i might try to clean it up some later if i get bored
<nixternal> imbrandon: you get a chance to check out kvirc at all?
<imbrandon> some are alreaday done like frostwaire
<imbrandon> nixternal, yea i've been looking at it
<LaserJock> imbrandon: not a very good place :/
<LaserJock> a lot of the stuff on there has licensing issues, etc.
<imbrandon> nixternal, did you fix the changelog ?
<nixternal> not since the last post i haven't....do i need to do a recap on the previous changes done in debian?
<Adri2000> yes
<rmjb> question about handling a merge
<imbrandon> no you need to recap the changes you left in from ubuntu
<rmjb> a file has <<<<<<< on one line, then a few lines down ======== then some more lines down >>>>>>
<Adri2000> and the changelog entries from debian
<rmjb> do I delete the lines between the <<<<<< and the ====== to make it a sync?
<nixternal> imbrandon: i.e., dh_iconcache?
<imbrandon> nixternal, yes , make sure and keep all the debian changelog entries, and the last one needs to have the remaning ubuntu changes, like dh_iconcache
<nixternal> ok, dh_iconcache was the only change correct?
<nixternal> besides version number and feisty
<imbrandon> i havent looked , that was your job as the merger :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> but iirc yes
<nixternal> well then, dh_iconcache is all i seen
<nixternal> i can add under my merge note that dh_iconcache was enabled, as you had done previously in that changelog
<imbrandon> does it use cdbs ?
<nixternal> yes
<imbrandon> e.g. kde.mk in the rules ?
<nixternal> i don't think kde.mk was in there, but i am double checking right now
<imbrandon> if it has kde.mk in the rules , dh_iconcache has been added to that and it can be synced
<imbrandon> if that was the only change
<nixternal> no kde.mk
<imbrandon> ok never mind then , yes add it to the changelog
<nixternal>   * Merge from Debian unstable
<nixternal>   * Added dh_iconcache
<nixternal> cool?
<rmjb> okay, I've resolved the conflicts of a merge, deleted the .UBUNTU file and removed the lines from the old ubuntu package... i.e. made it a sync (I think) what now??
<LaserJock> rmjb: a sync? all the previous Ubuntu changes are no longer needed?
<rmjb> they were handled in the new debian version
<rmjb> only 1 might be needed but have to wait for herd1 for that
<rmjb> to test
<Adri2000> rmjb: why would you have to wait?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-16
<rmjb> to test on my hardware, since it's for a fakeraid controller I don't think a chrooted environment will work
<rmjb> I'll boot from the live cd and test there
<Adri2000> ah ok
<LaserJock> rmjb: how did you determine if the Ubuntu changes weren't needed?
<rmjb> package builds on feisty pbuilder
<Adri2000> I don't know when the isos daily builds start
<rmjb> looked at the debian changelog vs. the ubuntu changelogs
<rmjb> the ubuntu changes included a script, a build dependency and moving the init script... all things the new debian package does and more
<rmjb> only for the ubuntu change log it moves the init script to a different place
<rmjb> which is what i'll test on herd1
<rmjb> since I'm recommending reverting to a sync I have to convince an motu for them to upload the sync and discard the changes??
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3443   <fixed changelog>
<rmjb> also, can I be put as maintainer for the dmraid package? it's currently utnubu and because of that it fell by the wayside for edgy (and was shipped totally broken)
<imbrandon> nixternal, kk, i'll grab it and look in just a sec
<nixternal> rockin' imbrandon, thanks bro...i gotta goto sKool cuz im Kool
<imbrandon> rmjb, the best way to handle that if you want is subscribe to the bugmail, there are no "maintainers" in ubuntu we do it as a group
<imbrandon> brb afk
<rmjb> I mean like poppassd's maintainer is set as Adam Conrad https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/poppassd so he'll get notified of bugs for it... I'd like to be that person for dmraid... it can't get any worse than it is now... for it to ship broken
<LaserJock> rmjb: we don't have maintainership in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> rmjb: you can add yourself as a bug contact to dmraid
<rmjb> oh... I'll look into that
<rmjb> cool, i'm there
<rmjb> what's next to get the sync in feisty?
<LaserJock> file a bug, get a MOTU to ack it
<geser> chantra: are you still working on the gaim-libnotify package?
<joejaxx> anyone know how ubuntu calculates how much swap space you need at install?
<zul_> have you thought about asking -devel since the people who work on the installer are probably there :)
<ajmitch> zul_!
<zul_> meh?
<ajmitch> hello
<rmjb> dholbach: anyone else on the motumergers team?
<rmjb> than yourself
<ajmitch> there's a mergers team?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/motumergers
<dholbach> there was
<dholbach> i dunno how I ended up as a team owner
<rmjb> oh... on this page they still say to assign merge requests to them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/motumergers/+members
<ajmitch> another old page
<rmjb> I checked the team and it was only dholbach
<rmjb> guess I checked the wrong team
<ajmitch> yeah, that page is old
<ajmitch> even refers to bugzilla
<rmjb> and no mention of the new MoM
<LaserJock> hmm, I thought that one was updated for edgy
<rmjb> who should be assigned merge/sync requests now?
<rmjb> joejaxx: SAP recommends 3xRAM + 500MB for swap... but that's for SAP
<ajmitch> to get them uploaded, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<dholbach> we should drop the unnecessary info from that page
* ajmitch hopes this kernel works
<dholbach> i just unsubscribed the team from a bunch of bugs etc
<rmjb> it's what I was working from... is there a fresher page somehere LaserJock?
<LaserJock> speaking of wiki clean up, check out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
<LaserJock> rmjb: not sure, let me see
<ajmitch> there is
<LaserJock> shesh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging is no good either
<ajmitch> well, we have the school session by the one & only crimsun
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<LaserJock> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources the best right now?
<rmjb> yeah, saw that page too... both got me confused
<ajmitch> the legendary hacker
<ajmitch> DeveloperResources should always be up to date
<LaserJock> uhhhh, "legendary"
<LaserJock> but primarily for Main
<ajmitch> of course, but we shouldn't deviate from main that much
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<LaserJock> no, but it doesn't say anything about a MOTU ack
<ajmitch> hello TheMuso
<LaserJock> which is important
<rmjb> after reading DeveloperResources I wonder if my sync request is fine: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<ajmitch> rmjb: no, you'll really need to add in the changelog entries
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and is it a sync or a merge?
<ajmitch> a sync
<ajmitch> so it needs retitled
<rmjb> I just updated the title
<rmjb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<LaserJock> is dh_iconcache still needed?
<ajmitch> frequently yes
<imbrandon> if it dosent use the gnome or kde .mk via cdbs , then yes
<ajmitch> as imbrandon said
* ajmitch breaks his box in a spectacular way
<LaserJock> ah, I knew it was in the gnome and kde cdbs, I thought maybe it was folded into regular debhelper too
<ajmitch> (upgraded dbus)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I have to reboot it tonight anyway, so I may as well upgrade dbus ;)
<imbrandon> i've been running full feisty for ~24 hours now, no major breakage, i'm waiting till next week when all hell breaks loose
<ajmitch> oh my laptop was running feisty all last week
<plugwash> why will all hell break loose next weak?
<plugwash> *week
<ajmitch> it's just certain packages that are fun
<ajmitch> plugwash: because the canonical developers will be back tackling stuff
<Hobbsee> plugwash: because a lot of the devs are still at a conference?
<imbrandon> ahh got to love my little brother, he and his wife are fighting so he bought beer and just showed up :)
<rmjb> ajmitch: looks okay now?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: punching through flaming boards!
<Hobbsee> exactly!
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> :)
<bhale> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> bhale!!!
<LaserJock> I wondered if that was either an analogy or a stress release thing ;-)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, did you see jono's "item" ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: nope?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, a workers comp thing, they cant type with burnt hands
<LaserJock> hah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ahh i will have to find the pic, they all had to bring an item that tells something about them
<ajmitch> rmjb: it's a bit hard to follow the changelog - general practice is to paste the full relevant changes including version
<imbrandon> jono showed us the pic he brough that he drew as a 5 year old of a man in a redhat with the word redhat above it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
<imbrandon> was kinda funny
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> oh fun, mdadm upgrade
<ajmitch> hopefully the RAID array comes back up
<rmjb> crap... I just understood what you said ajmitch, but I already pasted the changelog from the ubuntu version to the newest...
<imbrandon> ajmitch, http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=759  ( he brought this real paper pic to UDS for the all hands meeting , for the "item" that tells alot about you )
<ajmitch> impressive artwork
<imbrandon> he said he drew it when he was 5 lol
<rmjb> I take it redhat was not out then... I assume he's older than 16?
<imbrandon> rmjb, yes much
<rmjb> being the community manager and all
<imbrandon> probably double that, i forgot his actual age, i think he is one year older than me iirc
<bhale> who now?
<bhale> jono?
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> yes, lord bacon
<bhale> early 30s sounds right
<imbrandon> yea i turn 30 in december :(
* imbrandon feels old
<_nixternal> you are old
* Hobbsee steals imbrandon's walking frame
<imbrandon> heh
<_nixternal> hahaha
<rmjb> age is how you feel
<rmjb> ajmitch: I think I finally put the correct/relevant info in the request, is it okay now?
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, you're really going to hate me now.. but --> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=769
* elkbuntu runs and hides behind Hobbsee
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee isnt big enough to run and hide behind
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hide behind ajmitch.  that'd work better
<rmjb> wow, I'm older than bacon!
<ajmitch> rmjb: looks good
<rmjb> by a few weeks
<rmjb> ajmitch: thanks
* LaserJock passes out some canes
<LaserJock> old people in here
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: can i have one too?  it makes a useful poking implement
<ajmitch> LaserJock: careful, boy!
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you've already got one
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I know, I know. It's just I've got to get these in before my birthday
<LaserJock> 3 days left
<rmjb> I'll only take one of those canes if it's sugar cane... haven't had that in years
* rmjb notices a lot of virgos
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how old?
<LaserJock> the big 2-5
<rmjb> wow... 1/4 century (that makes it sound worse)
<ajmitch> ah, so you're a few months older than I
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<rmjb> 8|
* ajmitch doesn't hit the 1/4 century mark until june
* rmjb bloomed bloomin late
* LaserJock whips out his laser and chops Hobbsee's stick in half
* Hobbsee shines the laser in LaserJock's eyes
* ajmitch thinks we need a newer wine version in feisty
<LaserJock> thank goodness I put on my laser safety goggles
* _MMA_ thinks -motu and -devel are funny today. :)
<_MMA_> LaserJock: 25? wow. I would have thought you were at least my age.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: 4 years of grad school will do that to a person :/
<_MMA_> :)
<LaserJock> I'm still the youngest person in my research group
<LaserJock> *and* the senior grad student ;-)
<_MMA_> Wait till you have kids. :)
<LaserJock> I don't think I could handle it
<_MMA_> just let TV and the internet raise 'em.
<LaserJock> once they were hooked on Ubuntu I can have them doing my merges for me
<Hobbsee> haha
<_MMA_> Im gonna have mine work on a replacement for PulseAudio. :)
<Burgwork> _MMA_: why a replacement?
<_MMA_> Joke.
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> that lack of context thing
<_MMA_> It was a question at UDS. Why basically. Many people thought GSt was supposed to be the "end all be all".
<bhale> gst doesnt solve the same problem as pulseaudio at all
<bhale> it could be used there but it isnt an intrinsic feature
<_MMA_> PulseAudio seemed to come from wanting a particular feature set.
<bhale> it came from wanting to replace esd
<_MMA_> Syncing sound cards across machines and whatnot.
<bhale> for software mixing
<_MMA_> Well. I hope it is the "end all be all". At least for desktop use.
<bhale> why does one thing have to be that
<bhale> gstreamer is a library for playing sounds, with plugable input/output/codec bits
<bhale> pulseaudio is a daemon for mixing sounds
<bhale> it doesnt play an mp3 off the disk
<bhale> gst does
<_MMA_> Because every other app uses something different for sound. Everyone said OSS was on the way out but then things like Quake4 still use it.
<imbrandon> right pulseaudio is like alsa or oss, not gst or xine
* bhale sighs very deeply
<bhale> come on
<bhale> you are so mixed up I cant even adress
<bhale> oss is somewhat in the same place on the stack as alsa
<bhale> which is not gstreamer or pulse
<imbrandon> _MMA_, your totaly mixing up you programs
<bhale> please think this through
<bhale> before you say "end all be all"
<bhale> read about why we need pulse audio
<bhale> it isnt anything to do with OSS or ALSA really
<bhale> rather disconnected from gstreamer
<imbrandon> bhale, right its totaly needed but they said at the bof untill it has an oss compat layer
<bhale> alsa has one?
<imbrandon> yes
<bhale> why should pulse
<_MMA_> Hey Im not quoting me. This was from people at UDS.
<bhale> mixing sounds from oss apps is a requirement?
<bhale> _MMA_: Gah.
<bhale> Burgwork: please help us distribute clue
<imbrandon> bhale, yes mixing oss sounds was a reqirement according to mdz
<_MMA_> Ha! You cant in a calm way?
<Burgwork> bhale: about to head home. I have spent all my clue pouring into the endless pit that is Userful
<imbrandon> because of old 3rd party apps that are oss only
<bhale> there shouldnt be many in main
<bhale> esp in desktop
<imbrandon> bhale, well it wasent based only about whats in main, about even 3rd party apps
<bhale> thats lame
<bhale> but ok.
<imbrandon> i dident say it was my decesion but i see the point
<bhale> in any case it isnt a cause to start from scratch with pulseaudio
<imbrandon> :)
<bhale> in a project to encompass replacing gst
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> gst would still be ontop of pa
* LaserJock lost the point of this discussion
<bhale> LaserJock: Distributing Clue
<LaserJock> ah
* bhale waits for someone to throw out another sound related technology
<bhale> DMIX!!!
<TheMuso> If OSS apps weren't looked after, I know myself, as well as a few people in the blind Linux community wouldn't be happy.
<_MMA_> bhale: Is that what you kids call having a chat?
<imbrandon> haha
<LaserJock> so did anybody look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
<LaserJock> I need some feedback people
<LaserJock> :-0
<Burgwork> LaserJock: beside the depressing stats, you need a link called "how can I help?"
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yep
<LaserJock> perhaps I can rephrase it
<LaserJock> but that's what people usually ask
<Burgwork> LaserJock: I would munge the stats into a larger section called "current status"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: looks good to me
<Hobbsee> and those stats will almost always be out of date
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, that's sort of a place holder until we get out a weekly status report
<jdong> whoo! barnacle actually works :D
<Burgwork> LaserJock: s/MOTU Hopefuls/So you want to be a MOTU?/
<Burgwork> Burgwork: have that to be more of a FAQ
<Burgwork> LaserJock: your teams should be a list, not a table and should be linked
<Burgwork> otherwise, looks good :)
<LaserJock> well, yeah
* Burgwork heads home
<LaserJock> not sure about the table thing
<Burgwork> I spend about 10 secs trying to figure out the column/row headings
<Burgwork> then I realized it was a list, hiding as a table
<LaserJock> fine, be that way ;p
<jdong>  -> Considering  libgnome2-dev (>=
<jdong> dpkg: --compare-versions bad relation
<jdong> O_O
<jdong> interesting
<rmjb> LaserJock: as someone that recently started the motu process this page is looking promising
<jdong> libgnome2-dev (>= 2.16.0)
<jdong> looks normal to me
<LaserJock> rmjb: any suggestions for additions/subtractions?
<jdong> any enlightening suggestions as to why an edgy pbuilder would spit out such an error on feisty xchat-gnome?
<rmjb> I *just* found out today about the Candidates page... and the end of the Hopefuls section you could link to that
<rmjb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<jdong> likewise error in feisty pbuilder
<rmjb> can someone take a look at my pmplib package for feisty? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3445
<BombTron> hello
<ajmitch> rmjb: having something in debian/copyright would be a good thing
<ajmitch> hello BombTron
<ajmitch> rmjb: and debian/dirs probably doesn't need /usrbin & /usr/sbin
<BombTron> hi, listen I'm green but looking to get involved
<BombTron> windows network admin by day but looking to code and get into open source more
<BombTron> any ideas
<zul> well what can you do/
<rmjb> is debian/dirs absolutely necessary or can I just whack it?
<BombTron> well like I said I'll have to train myself a bit but I have taken some c++ in the past
<BombTron> and COBOL but is that even used much
<zul> cool well there is some docs on the wiki can you start reading
<zul> heh i dont think there is much use for cobol
<BombTron> well what do you think is best to learn for a launguage
<LaserJock> zul: what? we don't have Gnome bindings for COBOL?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<zul> LaserJock: we dont? :)
<zul> BombTron: well i would start with the wiki, maybe go some launchpad bugs and start tryint to fix things
<BombTron> will do
<LaserJock> zul: I don't see it on http://www.gtk.org/bindings.html
<rmjb> BombTron: how new to linux?
<zul> zul: have you checked their repo tree possibly HEAD? ;)
<BombTron> rmjb: under two years
<BombTron> rmjb: windows network admin by day
<rmjb> you're comfortable compiling from source then? the ./configure, make, make install dance?
<BombTron> rmjb: fairly
<rmjb> I'm a windows/Redhat admin by day too
<_nixternal> come on LaserJock, treat us to a show of your elite COBOL and Fortran skillz
<LaserJock> _nixternal: Fortran yes, COBOL, no
<LaserJock> and not elite, just enough to get by as a scientist
<_nixternal> i figured at least Fortran, since it is the scientist's language
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to convert the science world to python ;-)
<_nixternal> i know QBasic...what can i do with that?
<_nixternal> i used to make whicked loops on my Vic20 in the 80s
<LaserJock> oh nifty
<LaserJock> we still teach Basic for our instrumental analysis class
<LaserJock> programming a geiger counter
<_nixternal> im learning UNIX/Linux now ;p
<rmjb_> ajmitch: looks better now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3446
<Tonio_> imbrandon: so you don't have the refresh/stop merged button ?
<imbrandon> Tonio_, ?
<Tonio_> imbrandon: the feisty version should have this modified
<Tonio_> imbrandon: but that requires that you remove konqueror configuration files in the first place
<imbrandon> ahh no i have seperate buttons, watch it if your thinking about auto removing configs
* imbrandon would be very angry if some update obliterated my config
<Tonio_> imbrandon: that's not possible
<Tonio_> as long as it doesn't break the user's config, I'm fine with it
<lastnode> imbrandon, just a wee reminder about the upload :P
<imbrandon> lastnode, yea i have to talk to fujitsu as there was no source packages only debs
<imbrandon> Tonio_, right on
<lastnode> imbrandon, oh right, ive been looking for the man too, cool.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no source for what?
<imbrandon> lastnode's project upstream
<imbrandon> called "upstream"
<lastnode> LaserJock, www.upstreamdev.org
<Tonio_> imbrandon: ho did you saw that ? the adept bug installing java is potentially resolved now :)
<Tonio_> since java will go gpl soon hehe :)
<LaserJock> it's not just java though
<LaserJock> although that's probably one of the biggest ones
<Tonio_> LaserJock: yeah I know, that was just funy since we discussed that 5 days ago
<Tonio_> LaserJock: we know the issue and the fix to that issue
<lastnode> imbrandon, i just emailed him
<Tonio_> pretty easy to fix though
<LaserJock> it's been broken for a long time though hasn't it?
<Tonio_> LaserJock: yes, but in fact the fix is pretty easy... just that nobody took care at the moment
<LaserJock> :/
<imbrandon> Tonio_, i dunno if its been fixed yet, but it should be soon
<Tonio_> all we need is a dep on adept and patching the code to set an environment variable while adept is used
<Tonio_> that's it
<Tonio_> imbrandon: should the dep be on adept or on kubuntu-desktop ?
<imbrandon> hrm i dont think so
<imbrandon> no
<Tonio_> probably the second in my opinion
<Tonio_> adept should only recommend it
<imbrandon> its a probelm with the way adept handles debconf questions
<imbrandon> not a dep
<Tonio_> imbrandon: we also need the libperl-qt installed
<imbrandon> right, that might fix it
<Tonio_> AND set an environement variable so that debconf uses qt on kde
<imbrandon> possibly if it works
<Tonio_> but we need to define this only if kde is in use in fact
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> ok let me test this tonight
<imbrandon> i think i know how it can be done
<Tonio_> imbrandon: ah you were not there :)
<imbrandon> infact i'll try it right now
<minghua> does adept use a command line to call apt-get?
<Tonio_> we already tested this and it works perfectly
<imbrandon> minghua, no
<Tonio_> minghua: no
<imbrandon> minghua, it uses libept and libapt-fronty like synaptic
<minghua> okay, I was hoping just define debconf frontend can fix this :-(
<imbrandon> s/y//
<Tonio_> imbrandon: what you need to do is to install libqt-perl and run dpkg-reconfigure debconf and choose kde backend
<imbrandon> Tonio_, right
<imbrandon> Tonio_, i'll do that now
<Tonio_> we'll perform an equivalent thing by setting the variable missing in adept code directly
<imbrandon> and test and upload if it works
<Tonio_> that works perfectly
<minghua> Tonio_: if you dpkg-reconfigure debconf, you'll change debconf's behavior in every environment
<Tonio_> minghua: that's for *testing*
<imbrandon> minghua, thats not the final solution
<Tonio_> minghua: this is why the variable will be set with adept and available only when it is in use
<imbrandon> right
<minghua> Tonio_: yeah, sorry, you second sentence made that clear
<Tonio_> minghua: sorry, I though it was clear the first time :)
<imbrandon> minghua, heh a frenchman and a chineese man both trying to understand each others english :)
<Tonio_> imbrandon: hehe
* imbrandon feels stuck in the middle
<minghua> no big problem so far :-)
<imbrandon> :)
<Tonio_> imbrandon: just migrating to feisty
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it's ok, we managed to understand whatever you said :)
<imbrandon> minghua, i know, but it was a running joke at UDS
<Tonio_> imbrandon: to you have an issue with mdadm too ?
<minghua> hey, I wasn't at UDS
<imbrandon> Tonio_, not that i'm aware of
<ajmitch> Tonio_: what sort of problems did you have with mdadm?
<Tonio_> ajmitch: let me remove and reinstall first
<Tonio_> ajmitch: in fact the service doesn't start
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> I've upgraded but not rebooted
<Tonio_> ajmitch: yes that's why I'm asking :) this is not a little issue :)
<ajmitch> certainly not little, I have / on LVM+RAID
<Tonio_> ajmitch: argh !
<LaserJock> my feisty upgrade went fine
<LaserJock> actually kinda anti-climactic
<rmjb> you all run feisty on your main desktops?
<Tonio_> rmjb: I'm just doing the migration
<rmjb> wow... can't afford to do that... others use this PC
<imbrandon> rmjb, i am on my main dev machine, not my main desktop
<Tonio_> ajmitch: invoke-rc.d: initscript mdadm-raid, action "start" failed.
<Tonio_> this is what I get
<LaserJock> rmjb: still  edgy on my main desktop and laptop
<LaserJock> dapper on one desktop and feisty on one desktop
<Tonio_> ajmitch: error is on "Assembling MD arrays"
<Tonio_> but well I don't have raid so it'll be hard for me to test deeply
<ajmitch> Tonio_: a small worry
<ajmitch> but I trust that fabbione tested it :)
<ajmitch> if you don't have raid & it fails, that's not so much of a problem
<Tonio_> ajmitch: true :)
<ajmitch> if I have raid & I can't boot, then it's a problem
<rmjb> ajmitch: /boot on regular partition?
<ajmitch> rmjb: always
<ajmitch> it's a bit hard to have /boot on LVM on RAID 5
<rmjb> true... not quite there yet
<rmjb> is there an ubuntu guide for packaging of java apps?
<LaserJock> not java specific
<rmjb> well I'll find out soon if putting a build-depends on java-gcj-compat-dev was the right thing
<ajmitch> rmjb: maybe the debian java policy, I don't know how updated it is
<minghua> reading the debian-java list may help too
<_nixternal> yes, i would like to learn how to use ubutnutuutntu...can you help me please?
<_nixternal> well, i guess none ofyou would get that one, as it was meant for another channel
<joejaxx> ajmitch: in fstab the correct notation for reiserfs is just reiserfs right?
<LaserJock> _nixternal: we just figured it was another of your random rambling comments ;-)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: no idea, I don't use it
<_nixternal> on my way home
<fernando> hi all, when a package don't have a man page. I need to open a bug and forward it to upstream author?
<Burgundavia> fernando: yes
<fernando> Burgundavia: it have the manual in pdf format =)
<Burgundavia> ah, more interesting
<LaserJock> fernando: you can write you're own man page
<fernando> LaserJock: i can to use the pdf version to write the man pages?
<fernando> i need upstream authorization?
<LaserJock> well, I don't know that you need to use the pdf version
<LaserJock> just write a simple man page
<fernando> ok, thanks
<rmjb> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Man-Page/
<TheMuso> Or, just look at another man page for reference.
<zakame> hi all
<TheMuso> Thats what I did for the few man pages I had to write.
<TheMuso> Hey zakame
<zakame> yo TheMuso
<Lathiat> hrm, are the modules on the install cd kernel not identical to all those in the real kernel package?
<rmjb> totally off topic, what can I use in Ubuntu to make a greeting card, like I could in MS Publisher?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not really feeling like being the guinea pig for the NewDeveloperProcess spec
<minghua> rmjb: inkscape in GNOME, scribus in KDE, should be close enough
<rmjb> thanks, I'll check em out
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why would you be?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that whole core-dev thing
<LaserJock> I'm kinda itchin' to do some work in Edubuntu
<imbrandon> LaserJock: its really the same as its been in the past , just on paper now
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, but I'm also worried about them thinking about it too much ;-)
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> I'd be happy to be the guinipig for the new MOTU developer process. :)
<LaserJock> yeah, we need some Council Grayskull candidates :-)
<TheMuso> I love that name. :)
<LaserJock> of course we need a Council Grayskull to do that though
<LaserJock> :/
<imbrandon> heh yea we have to wait for dholbach for that one
<rmjb> Council Grayskull?
<imbrandon> rmjb: the new council of MOTU's to approve new MOTU's
<imbrandon> and other things
<rmjb> :D
<rmjb> nice
<imbrandon> mostly all the admin stuff thats fallen soley onto daniel untill now
* ajmitch votes LaserJock, imbrandon & crimsun onto the council
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> who else do we need on that team?
<LaserJock> umm...... ajmitch
<imbrandon> well we need 5 to 7 i thought, and you
<ajmitch> not 7
<ajmitch> 7 would be far too many
<ajmitch> I'd think that 5 would be max
* ajmitch isn't qualified for the job
<LaserJock> I kinda disagree
<imbrandon> yea proably 5
<ajmitch> the spec says 5 currently
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> thatsd what we said at the BoF
<ajmitch> LaserJock: disagree with?
<TheMuso> I think any more than five could be problematic
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that you aren't qualified
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh well, your opinion doesn't matter there ;)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i disagree too with that, ajmitch should definately be on it imho
<LaserJock> ajmitch: :(
* LaserJock walks over to the corner
<ajmitch> aw
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I don't know if I should be or not
<ajmitch> mainly because of time
<ajmitch> anyway, it's something that we have to sort out & probably vote about next week
<rmjb> certain motus seem really stretched
<imbrandon> rmjb: totaly
<LaserJock> yes, it seems that the people who are most suited for the job have the least time for it
<LaserJock> for the most part
<imbrandon> ajmitch: yea i think thats the main reason for 5 , like the TB only 2 or 3 would be "needed" per meeting etc
<ajmitch> imbrandon: having 7 means trying to get a consensus or majority would be harder
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's ok, I neither have the time nor am I suitable :)
<LaserJock> bah
<imbrandon> yea i'm thinking it will work more like the TB since its goverend by them , where only a majority ( 2 in the TB case ) is needed
<imbrandon> 3 in our , with 5 total
<rmjb> REVU is for multiverse also right?
<imbrandon> ours*
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's the intent
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes
<imbrandon> rmjb: yes
<rmjb> if a package is all free, but depends on non-free, where will it be?
<imbrandon> multiverse
<LaserJock> non-free
<rmjb> okay, uploading another package to REVU
<rmjb> getting the hang of this
<ajmitch> back in a few min
<imbrandon> yea we proably should have a another revu day soon so it dosent get TOO backed up, well moreso backed up
<LaserJock> yeah, we've got to hammer sponsorship/reviewing hard
<imbrandon> start doing those early in the cycle so its not a rush at the end again
<rmjb> who else here is a reviewer other than ajmitch? I feel bad harassing him all the time
<LaserJock> rmjb: technically any MOTU
<imbrandon> when dholbach gets on i'll see if he minds me scheduling a REVU day soonish
<rmjb> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3446 ?
<imbrandon> rmjb: any MOTU can revu, only certain ones are revu admins and can sync the keyring etc
<rmjb> ok
<rmjb> and my 2nd package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3449
<minghua> LaserJock: in the Debian sense, the answer to rmjb's question is contrib, not non-free
<LaserJock> minghua: well, yeah
<LaserJock> but I wasn't talking about Debian, just using his terminology
<minghua> LaserJock: true, just to clarify, as there is no non-free in Ubuntu
<imbrandon> hahah rock on http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/reflections/20061114-00.html
<rmjb> no contrib either no? so it should be multiverse
<imbrandon> yes thats what i said, multiverse :)
<rmjb> right
* TheMuso forgot that there is a multiverse merges page.
<LaserJock> not much on them
<LaserJock> just some wonderful Flash 9 for crimsun
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> back
<ajmitch> now where were we? :)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> we all decided that since you have some time to spare you get to be  the motu-sru, motu-uvf, and ubuntu-universe-sponsors teams
<LaserJock> oh, and you need to write REVU2 by the end of the year
<nixternal> pwnd
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> what happened there
<nixternal> freenode is slowly falling apart
<LaserJock> well, oftc went too
<nixternal> oftc died out as well at the same time
<nixternal> ya
<ajmitch> imbrandon: tomboy FTW
<_MMA_> Its not a big deal. Ill look on the forums again.
<rmjb> it's no use... we've already take over the channel
<rmjb> G'night all
<imbrandon> gnight rmjb
<nixternal> blah tomboy, Baskets is much better ;p
<imbrandon> bah, basket is ok if i want to take notes for a thesis, not for a simple TODO
<imbrandon> simple, networkable, dont have to think about starting/stoping it, finding it, accessable from any computer, secure, TODO
<imbrandon> fill those shoes :)
<whiprush> what the hell is baskets?
<imbrandon> basket is a noteapp that intergrats into kontact, like the notes in outlook or the ones in evolution
<whiprush> oh neat.
<whiprush> imbrandon: where did you end up drinking on friday night?
<whiprush> I got all hammered and you missed it
<imbrandon> oh man so did i, i dident hit the rtoom untill sunrise
<imbrandon> ok well lets see
<imbrandon> we started ( jono orga benc me and ummm someone else ) at the irish pub
<imbrandon> then the resturant
<whiprush> I am pretty sure I hugged dholbach way too many times.
<imbrandon> then the redneckbar, then poolside with a bottle of scotch
<imbrandon> whiprush: hahahaha
<imbrandon> dude i was soooo hammered friday
<imbrandon> actualy i think we all were
<imbrandon> i tried to throw daniel into the pool and almost made it in myself
<imbrandon> but by that time i was half way threw the scotch with orga and ummm , hell i dont rember there was like 5 of us at the pool untill the sun came up almost
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i think i was still hung over untill monday afternoon though
<imbrandon> hrm, i think i'm going to blog and ask the lazyweb about my noteapp requirements
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<lastnode> imbrandon, Fujtisu is MIA :\
<imbrandon> whiprush: where did you end up ? with jono and the dancers?
<lastnode> prolly school or something
<imbrandon> lastnode: its ok, he will be back arround soonish
<imbrandon> no hurries
<lastnode> cool
<imbrandon> everyone needs time
<imbrandon> :)
<lastnode> yeah totally, i didn't mean it like that :-)
<lastnode> he's been a great packager
* lastnode 's dist-upgrade is in progress
<minghua> zakame's photo note is so strange -- there are six people on the picture but the note says (L-R) followed by five names :-(
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i dont think he is counting the gent in the background
<imbrandon> whiprush: where are your pics of MTV ?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> hrm has anyone else noticed the -devel ML isnt worth reading anymore
* imbrandon is talking to himself
<crimsun> that's the impetus for a ubuntu-dev-only list, no?
<imbrandon> oh is there one? or going to be one ?
<crimsun> I've only read rumours
<pygi> morning
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> moins
<zakame> minghua: oh, I forgot the name of the leftmost guy, heh
<zakame> who knows what rumors lurk in teh hearts of MOTUs?
<zakame> the crimsun knows!!!
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> well, there is a spec about ubuntu-dev-only list
<minghua> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/devel-list
<minghua> and approved :-)
<zakame> heh a la debian-private
<Burgundavia> no, publicly archived
<zakame> yet only devs can post, i see?
<pygi> zakame, yes,, sadly
<TheMuso> I have no problem with that myself.
<minghua> publicly archived, and non-devs are only moderated, not rejected, it seems
<zakame> ah, I see
<zakame> well that's justified
<pygi> minghua, right ^_^
<pygi> TheMuso, well, since I'm no MOTU,and I won't be able to become one in next 10 years at least :P
<zakame> at least not an outright DROP
<zakame> pygi: 10 years!?!
<pygi> zakame, dunno, just over-rough estimate because of no key-signing :P
<zakame> pygi: where you at?
<pygi> Croatia
<zakame> ah
<pygi> what?  :P
<minghua> you don't need a signed key to become MOTU, do you?
<imbrandon> yes
<zakame> yup, for uploading
<zakame> he can still be MOTU, but he won't be able to upload by himself
<pygi> which is non-sense then :P
<minghua> signed by whom, then?
<pygi> minghua, a MOTU/core-dev I think
<minghua> it's not like we have an ubuntu-keyring
<Burgundavia> web of trust
<minghua> Hmm, I wonder how my uploads slipped through then...
* minghua shuts up and hides :-P
<pygi> minghua, :P
<minghua> my key is signed by a DD, so probably they are happy with that
<pygi> minghua, right, I think that's fine also
<minghua> but I never heard about this
<ajmitch> minghua: of course they're happy with DDs
<ajmitch> I'd be more happy with signatures by DDs, tbh :)
* imbrandon has one DD now
<ajmitch> lucky imbrandon
<minghua> in the old Debian days I heard mailing ID photocopies are allowed to sign a key
<imbrandon> yea i've heard that also
<imbrandon> way back when
<minghua> I still suspect the validity of this claim
<minghua> freeflying: it seems both of your keys are only signed by yourself, is that true?
<minghua> key-signing has always been quite a problem for Chinese people
<Burgundavia> minghua: why so?
<zakame> i've yet to find a DD aside from sabdfl to sign my key :/
<minghua> Because China is big and has very few DDs?
<fernando> night all
<freeflying> minghua: Anthony. Fok has signed my key
<TheMuso> Whats the deal with packages that have been merged with changed po files? I am just comparing the Debian version of a package with a possible merge, and notice po file changes. Should these be documented in the changelog, as they aren't.
<minghua> freeflying: oh.  I just can't see it from http://keyserver.ubuntu.com, maybe it's not updated
<minghua> TheMuso: I believe yes, po file changes should be listed in changelog just like other changes
<TheMuso> THought as much. I guess that the new policy hadn't come into effect so there is nothing about them.
<whiprush> imbrandon: I didn't have a camera, if you didn't notice.
<imbrandon> whiprush: i dont rember , so many people did , so many dident
<imbrandon> whiprush: step away a few ? heheh
<whiprush> dude I was too busy buying drinks for everyone
<whiprush> so I missed the fun.
<whiprush> unless "fun" is watching riddell dancing around in his kilt, heh.
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> i probably should have went, but quite a few of us ended up at the redneckbar
<imbrandon> ( including jane , now that was funny )
<imbrandon> that was the main reason i dident goto the dance club, i dident wanan pay $30 for the cab back to sunnyvale
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Sounds like you had a ball over there.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: yea afterhours was "intresting" to say the leaste most nights
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> especialy friday night ( but really every night )
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm curious why the skype .deb package isn't in the repos...  ?
<imbrandon> FunnyLookinHat: becouse its not free to distribute, nor open source
<FunnyLookinHat> Neither is opera, and it's in an official ubuntu repo  :-/
<imbrandon> in the canonical commercial one yes, becouse opera approached canonical
<FunnyLookinHat> Oooh, ok
<FunnyLookinHat> So skype hasn't approached canonical on it...   makes sense  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> ty
<imbrandon> and its not in a ubuntu official repo, its in a canonical one , there is a slight diffrence
<imbrandon> :)
<freeflying> minghua: ya, I haven't updated yet
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee. How many exams left? :
<TheMuso> :)
<Hobbsee> hey again all
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: 2, now :)
* Hobbsee notes that that last exam officially finished 10 mins ago
<elkbuntu> ooh.. im missing uds talk?
<imbrandon> ugh mdam already broken
<imbrandon> mdadm
<imbrandon> ajmitch: you had any issues with it yet ?
<zakame> Hobbsee: so you should be ready to party then?
* Hobbsee was thinking of installing feisty....
<Hobbsee> zakame: nah...be ready to study for the other two... :(
<zakame> then ready to party right? :P
<Hobbsee> yep
<zakame> -cool
<zakame> mreging nip2 now
<zakame> merging
<Hobbsee> zakame: dholbach wanted all of his merges done for him in universe, fyi
<zakame> Hobbsee: noted, will get to that later
<whiprush> imbrandon: dude, we need some kubuntu stuff for the next UWN, care to join in #ubuntu-marketing?
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<imbrandon> whiprush: yup
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: So you have finished or you haven't finished for the year?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i will have, after the last two exams
<TheMuso> Right. When are they?
<TheMuso> And afaik, bdebian won't be able to help out much till December I think it was.
<TheMuso> So I'm working on a few of his. :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: tuesday
<crimsun> TheMuso: there seems to be a debdiff origin mismatch for bug 72011
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72011 in adonthell-data "adonthell-data: Please review/upload this merged package." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72011
<crimsun> TheMuso: err, sorry, scratch that. I was looking at the non-data source.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks heaps dude. Once the new MOTU process is set up, I'll be in there as soon as physically possible. :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'm happy to cheer squad for you.
* StevenK is waiting for the new core-dev process to be set up.
<StevenK> Tonio_: Hey. So you're happy for me to pull wengophone 2 from Debian?
<siretart> StevenK: new core-dev process? huh?
<siretart> morning, motus!
<zakame> yo siretart ! =D
<StevenK> siretart: Doesn't NewDeveloperProcess also encompass new core-dev members?
<Tonio_> StevenK: it will not work on ubuntu anyway........
<StevenK> Tonio_: Oh? Why not?
<Tonio_> StevenK: wengophone doesn't work with qt4.2
<StevenK> Ahh
<Tonio_> this is why I didn't upload my package (I did it before debian)
<StevenK> Right.
<Tonio_> StevenK: by the way I'm looking at the debian package to see exactly how it builds
<StevenK> Tonio_: "Badly", I'm guessing. :-P
<Tonio_> the packaging is very (too much) complex and there are strange things in it, like the lang etc......
<Tonio_> I don't see them building
<StevenK> Hrm. A DD that I don't know maintains it.
<Tonio_> E: Couldn't find package portaudio19-dev
<Tonio_> will not build in ubuntu anyway :)
<StevenK> I have a merge waiting for libept to get sucked in.
<StevenK> I'm hoping it will happen automagically.
<Tonio_> StevenK: in fact wengophone has 2 possible build systems : cmake and scons
<Tonio_> he uses cmake and I use scons
<StevenK> Tonio_: Ugh, they both suck.
<Tonio_> I'm not very comfortable with cmake, that's why I'm a bit embarrassed :)
<StevenK> Heh
<Tonio_> StevenK: but yes as long as the debian package builds on ubuntu (which is not the case now, mine does...) we should use the debian one
<StevenK> I know a very little about scons. Enough to know I don't want to know more.
<Tonio_> StevenK: well if you look at my packaging, you'll see it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easier
<StevenK> Heh
<Tonio_> his package is........ wow, complex
<Tonio_> but maybe better I don't know :)
<Tonio_> StevenK: his package depends on qt4.2...
<StevenK> Yes, I saw that.
<Tonio_> StevenK: might be interesting to check if that works once libportaudio is available
* StevenK nods.
<Tonio_> StevenK: maybe building with cmake resolves the issue
<StevenK> Tonio_: Maybe, but that would suprise me.
<Tonio_> the point is that the qt4.2 issue is known issue
<StevenK> I'm still unsure if new packages in Debian are pulled into Ubuntu automatically.
<Tonio_> StevenK: yes but I would be surprised that a non working app is uploaded to debian
<StevenK> Tonio_: I can fire up a sid chroot and try it, if you like
<Tonio_> StevenK: http://dev.openwengo.com/trac/openwengo/trac.cgi/ticket/1053
<Tonio_> here is the issue (and I can confirm this)
<Tonio_> StevenK: eventually if you can yes I would be interested
<StevenK> Tonio_: Sure, I'll do it when I get back after dinner.
<Tonio_> StevenK: okay, please let me know :)
<StevenK> Tonio_: Certainly.
* StevenK runs off for dinner.
<TheMuso> What dir by default does pbuilder use as its hook dir?
<palski> TheMuso: Isn't that defined in /etc/pbuilderrc?
<TheMuso> tis too
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<imbrandon> extra extra , read all the gossip, UWN 21 is out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue21
* imbrandon yawns
<\sh> moins
<Burgundavia> hey \sh
<\sh> hey Burgundavia...how's life and work? :)
<Burgundavia> the former is pretty good, the latter frustrating
* sivang cheers Burgundavia and reminds him that any job can by frustrating at times.
* joejaxx has been on a mission
<\sh> Burgundavia: so, it's not different from mine ;)
<sivang> \sh: hey dude, how are you ?
<Burgundavia> \sh: your managment is probbably saner than mine
<\sh> sivang: I took some free days from work, and just sitting here at GFs place and just wait to visit the linuxworld expo in cologne
<\sh> Burgundavia: I don't think so, our management is sometimes insane ;)
<sivang> \sh: oh cool, you seem to visit quite a lot of linux events, well, germany does have lots of them I guess ;)
<Burgundavia> my managment is always insane
<sivang> Burgundavia: technically clueless product management?
<Burgundavia> sivang: much worse
<Burgundavia> don't grok how to wokr in the community/upstream and thus our product suffers
<\sh> sivang: it would be my third event this year...
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<sivang> \sh: :-)
<sivang> Burgundavia: the problem is that you have another very good going in that manner to compare to ;)
<Burgundavia> sivang: failure after my repeated attempts show unwillingness to learn
<sivang> Burgundavia: After seeing what I had seen in my former work place, I don't think such bodies want or need to learn, they have cathedral style marketing and sales approaches, and their communities are mostly constructed by people with different agendas to the products they do open source, I stopped thinking this is a problem as they do have their very important position in the market, and do steem nice things as a result.
<sivang> seriously, this could result in great products and floss software
<Burgundavia> sivang: fine if your product is not desktop linux
<sivang> Burgundavia: ah, indeed :p
<sivang> I wasn't aware of that
<sivang> Burgundavia: what is that your company produces again? mass install and configruation control solutions?
<Burgundavia> given how quickly everybody is innovating in taht space, we are behind the ball badly
<sivang> I see.
<Burgundavia> public computing, managed computing, multiseatX stuff
<Q-FUNK> what would you guys do with bug #2620 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2620 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf broken after upgrade to Breezy" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2620
<Burgundavia> "I had read a while back that Quinn Storm had been talking about creating an entire new DE around Beryl" umm...
<Q-FUNK> it dates back from Breezy and the user cannot see to be bothered with upgrading.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: where is that from ?
<Burgundavia> random forum post
<imbrandon> jez
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you're surprised at all?
<ajmitch> I've heard the same thing from quinn
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> or the "automatix + beryl" sticky
<imbrandon> ajmitch: she err quinn said that ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: what issues have you had with mdadm, before I kill my box?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: heh yes
<imbrandon> ajmitch: that it dont finish the postinstall
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I never had that
<Burgundavia> http://forum.beryl-project.org/topic-1037-compiz-for-nvidia-automatix
<imbrandon> the first updatye i had it dodent
<imbrandon> but now ( later tonight ) it started'
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you use raid?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> but i have a feeling it would be broke atm if i did
<imbrandon> one sec
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so comforting, I'm about ready to reboot & try it
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32086/
<imbrandon> check that first
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I've seen that in the past
<ajmitch> and I think it's safe to ignore
<imbrandon> kk good
<imbrandon> well it never go's away ( so far )
<imbrandon> every time i dist upgrade it trys to configure it again
<imbrandon> but it says its running etc, i wonder if i stop the service then upgrade if it would finish
<ajmitch> it's probably failing since you don't have raid
<ajmitch> and it's trying to start non-existent arrays
<imbrandon> probably
<imbrandon> but that is the only issue i have run into so far
<imbrandon> well and my desktop icons have dissapeared but i think thats becouse ..... well i dunno
<imbrandon> but its a kde only issue
<imbrandon> as far as functioning everything else seems ok
<ajmitch> so you & 2 other people will see that icons issue :)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> i was/am actualy suprised at the kubuntu numbers
<imbrandon> i figured it was about 1/3 kubuntu to 2/3 ubuntu but its more like 51/kubuntu 49/ubuntu , but you couldent tell from the press :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> I'm sure it is, really ;)
<imbrandon> well thats the download numbers , who knows for sure
<imbrandon> anyhow, brb
* ajmitch should go & reboot now
<ajmitch> & hope it comes up
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> good luck
<ajmitch> lucky me, I'm mentioned in the UWN
<imbrandon> hehe i just helped with it a bit and havent even ready the WHOLE thing, only about 80% of it
<imbrandon> ahh yup , the libvirt
<imbrandon> i dont think my name is actualy in the letter anywhere ( other than the bottom )
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, that's usually my contribution level to it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it will be next time
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> actualy i tink i made the last 2 , thats good enough for me
* ajmitch finally gets to hear sabdfl's talk at google
<ajmitch> since I was in a bof at the time
<imbrandon> i missed about half of it , i saw the last half
<imbrandon> in person
<ajmitch> yeah
<elkbuntu> heh. ajmitch... please tell me our bof is out of frame
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: of course it is
<ajmitch> it's fully focused on the man of the hour
<imbrandon> i cant beleave the video is an hour long
<imbrandon> i was way way way in the back on the red couch
<imbrandon> hehe
* ajmitch was off in the room to the side
<elkbuntu> dude, you remember the couch colors?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: the red couch is famous!
<imbrandon> there was only 2, red and black
<ajmitch> blue
<imbrandon> err dark blue
<elkbuntu> yeah, i was about to say.. if that were the case.. then i dont know where i took the photo of a certain someone sleeping
<imbrandon> hahah who did you catch sleeping ?
<elkbuntu> speaking of, i need to go through my photos and decide which are worth putting up somewhere
<imbrandon> ohhh kwwii , thats right
<ajmitch> I don't think I've seen myself in any photos yet :)
<elkbuntu> ok, so i include ones with you in them
<imbrandon> i have only seen riddells and tonios and seele's
<imbrandon> i still wanna see daniels and simons
* ajmitch sees a photo of lh & elkbuntu 
<imbrandon> lh ?
<ajmitch> leslie, of course
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> we need to rope her onto irc sometime
<ajmitch> I've seen her on irc
<ajmitch> SoC channel back when it was active
<imbrandon> what nick ?
<elkbuntu> her fiancee's family is in town currently i believe, so now is not a good time
<StevenK> imbrandon: daniels isn't that interesting.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: lh :)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> going round in circles here...
<imbrandon> man see i was gonna lay down, and got to chatting and opened a new mt dew out of habbit
<imbrandon> darn it
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> addict
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hrm maybe if i get on at GSI i can have them run a ubuntu mirror :)
<StevenK> It's more fun to run one yourself.
<imbrandon> well i have one here
* StevenK does too.
<imbrandon> at home, but that does no one else any good
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> It does me good, which is good enough for me.
<imbrandon> true
<imbrandon> does my pbuilders good
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: I notice you were holding a Mountain Dew in the Kubuntu photo. Do you sleep with one with a can in your hand?
<StevenK> s/with one//
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> nah, too cold
<StevenK> Like that'd stop you.
<imbrandon> hahah no but it would stop "her" and thats nuff
<StevenK> Surely it's a case of "Love me, love the Mountain Dew" ?
<imbrandon> :)
<StevenK> Tonio_: wengophone from Debian works fine in a sid chroot.
<elkbuntu> most people would be satisfied with just a caffeine intravenous drip... imbrandon wants the sugar, et al as well
<TheMuso> Most people would be satisfied with water.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> thats why dew is better than coffee , teh sugarrrr
<elkbuntu> at least your mt dew gets to be caffeinated :(
<StevenK> Indeed.
<StevenK> I was so tempted to smuggle some out of Finland when I was over there.
* ajmitch goes for a restart
<ajmitch> zul will be so happy - amd64 xen kernel panics & reboots still
<ajmitch> & my desktop is not booting, yay
<StevenK> imbrandon: I can't help but think of you in regards to this comic.
<StevenK> imbrandon: http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/060823.html
<StevenK> imbrandon: Just replace Pepsi with Mountain Dew.
* ajmitch waits for the initramfs timeout :)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> this is odd
<imbrandon> AHAHHAHA
<imbrandon> ok i'm off to sleep
<imbrandon> gnight all
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<elkbuntu> g'nite dude
* ajmitch tries to get the box live 
<StevenK> ALSA: underrun, at least 0ms.
<StevenK> You don't say, ALSA!
<ajmitch> yay for initramfs race conditions
<Adri2000> hi
* imbrandon is really sleeping but check this out http://www.msfirefox.com/download-microsoft-firefox.html
<imbrandon> ajmitch: StevenK ^^
<fernando> moin all
<StevenK> Heh, saw it before.
<Adri2000> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000.
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: the licensing issues for homebank are clarified, the two files are gpl :)
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3442
<pianoboy3333> Can anyone here help me with my gpg? Now, if my hard drive gets wiped for w/e reason, how can I save my gpg?
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> pianoboy3333: Back up ~/.gnupg
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu.  merged all of universe yet?
<Fujitsu> Not quite.
<Fujitsu> Been at work.
<Hobbsee> awwww
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: where are you working?
<Fujitsu> (yes, I've actually got a job)
* ajmitch is just setting up AD again
<Fujitsu> Stuff That Works, as a Linux sysadminy-type thing.
<ajmitch> fun
* StevenK notes sysadmin is one of his job titles.
* ajmitch has the same problem
<StevenK> Multiple job titles, or sysadmining? :-)
<ajmitch> both :)
* StevenK grins.
<StevenK> Me too. :-)
<StevenK> Thankfully, I have someone I can wave at the 2 Windows servers at work.
<Fujitsu> Most of our clients have Windows boxen, but there are a multitude of others to handle them :)
<phanatic> could anyone have a look at this please: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3413 ?
<ajmitch> ok, AD is up & running, now I can play
<sivang> ajmitch: active directory?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: What are you doing with it?
<ajmitch> sivang: yes
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: playing :)
<sivang> Fujitsu: let's just say that a couple of folks had too much fun with AD , ubuntu and friends over UDS :p
<sivang> ajmitch is one of 'em
<ajmitch> sivang: they did?
<ajmitch>  kerberos_kinit_password Administrator@AD.AJMITCH.NET.NZ failed: Cannot resolve network address for KDC in requested realm
<sivang> ajmitch: that waht I could guess watching the IRC going at the time
<ajmitch> what a pain
<sivang> ;)
* ajmitch may have to move his domain to his own dns server
<ajmitch> Joined 'AUGUSTINE' to realm 'AD.AJMITCH.NET.NZ'
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> going well
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: I have to wait for a new upstream release with the license headers? :(
<Fujitsu> Yup :(
<Adri2000> ok, I will send a new email to the author
<ChaosFan> wg 36
<mr_pouit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRU << is this page up-to-date ?
<viviersf> ajmitch, ping
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> hmmm...qiet
<sivang> zul: indeed
<sivang> zul: weeks after uds seem quiet then usual
<giskard> hi sivang
<sivang> hey giskard
<sivang> giskard: how are you doing?
<sivang> giskard: fixed those errornous uploads from yesterday already? :)
<giskard> fixed and accepted
<geser> mr_pouit: use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<ivoks> hi all
<sivang> hi ivoks
<sivang> (again ;))
<ivoks> how's the plane? :)
<mr_pouit> geser: thanks for the link :)
<sivang> ivoks: heh
<xopher> Allright, signed and ready to rock ;) Now lets see, upload to revu..
<xopher> I read on the wiki that my key needs to be added to the revu-keyring so Im able to do this. Any REVU-admins available?
<xopher> What was the cmd to check if a version is considered newer by dpkg?
<Mez> dpkg --compare-versions new_ver ">" old_ver
<Mez> (i had to ask that myself not too long ago)
<xopher> Mez, Thanks
<LaserJock> hmm, there is an app that is LGPL but they authors want you to register to download the source, is that Free?
<fbond> LaserJock, yes; "Free" only indicates what you're allowed to do with it once you get the source, I think.
<fbond> http://www.jasperforge.com <-- these guys engage in that kind of BS, too...
<fbond> is your app a Java app, too?  (just out of curiousity...)
<LaserJock> no
<fbond> oh; just trying to confirm my theory that Java developers tend to fall in the category of people with strong capitalist tendencies that they can't seem to contain :)
<Burgwork> LaserJock: yes it is
<Burgwork> pykota is like that
<Burgwork> however, if you can get hold of binaries, you can get source for "not more than the cost of transmission"
<Tonio_> StevenK: so the issue can be due to the scons build........
<Tonio_> StevenK: I'll try to make the debian package build on feisty
<LaserJock> hmm, yeah, I guess as long as there isn't a prohibition of distributing the source without registration
<LaserJock> fbond: hmm, most of the Java apps I'm interested aren't that way
<mr_pouit> Quick question -> Bug 66475 : Is there a chance to get it into edgy-updates, or is it better to ask for a backport from feisty (a newer version is available) ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66475 in idjc "[DEBDIFF]  Dependency problem" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66475
<fbond> LaserJock, I think it's just that most of the "enterprise" apps are in Java, and people doing "enterprise" work usually want to get paid at some point...
<LaserJock> ah, the ones I know are "enterprise"
<LaserJock> that makes sense
<LaserJock> mr_pouit: hmm, I think possibly. Maybe you can email the ubuntu-motu list about it
<mr_pouit> LaserJock: ok, thanks
<enyc> hrrrm 'devede' package has a missing dependancy on 'vcdimager' in edgy! probably the same in fiesty so far as I can see
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> enyc: you said devede has some missing dep ?
<pygi> enyc, lemme look pls ^_^
<pygi> bleh, multiverse
<Sp4rKy> enyc: a new version was released, so i'll upgrade package for feisty
<enyc> Sp4rKy: yay ;-)
<enyc> Sp4rKy: it will not start without vcdimager for some reason
<Sp4rKy> enyc: strange
<Sp4rKy> but i write it in my TODO list
<enyc> Sp4rKy: well the program/script complains and refuses to run ;-)
<Sp4rKy> and update it in few days
<enyc> Sp4rKy: so the packages should include a dep ;-)
<enyc> Sp4rKy: ok no hurry, thanks ;-)
<Sp4rKy> k
<enyc> Sp4rKy: coo this is weird...
<enyc> "http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/games/prboom" says "prboom (2:2.2.6-3)" but "http://packages.ubuntu.com/prboom" says "feisty"..."2:2.4.6-1: amd64 i386 powerpc"
<giskard> any libtool magician?
<Sp4rKy> :p
<enyc> 2.4.6-1 would make sense, from debian,,, about time had an uptodate version anyway ;-)
<enyc> now that 2.4 is mostly stable/sensible ;-)
<enyc> anyway im busy
<enyc> talk later ;-)
<xopher> Any REVU-admins around?
<xopher> ajmitch, around?
<zul> hes probably sleeping
<jwhitlark> imbrandon: 'sup
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<chantra> geser: are you here?
<chantra> you tried to contact me yesterday
<geser> chantra: yes, I'm here
<geser> I've already seen that you've uploaded a new version of gaim-libnotify to revu
<chantra> yep, actually, someone told me about it, as the front page of gaim-libnotify on sourceforge does not inform about it :s
<chantra> geser: a small glitch, it make gaim segfault on exit if gaim-libnotify is enabled :s
<chantra> but only on exit, so so far , it is a minor bug, but I warn the developper
<chantra> hopefully, he will fix it :)
<geser> I've looked over your debdiff on revu and found a bug in the package description
<chantra> :s
<chantra> did you comment it?
<geser> no as I don't have a login on revu
<geser> and didn't find out how to get one
<chantra> whats the bug?
<geser> the part after Description: is the short description and is seperate of the long description (the following lines)
<geser> so you shouldn't continue the description on the second (indented) line but start from new
<ajmitch> xopher: yes?
<chantra> okie, I'm adding the short description at the beginnong of the long one :)
<geser> ajmitch: xopher wants his key added to revu-keyring to be able to upload
<ajmitch> has he joined the team on launchpad?
<ajmitch> xopher: raphink already replied to your mail, saying that the keyring was resynced
<xopher> yes I have
<xopher> Ok, thanks
<xopher> *now* I got the mail 
<chantra> geser: reuploaded with the change in the desciption
<geser> chantra: see http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-synopsis how to write a short description
<geser> I would suggest something like Description: gaim plugin for displaying notifications with libnotify
<geser> don't forget the epoch in depends entry for gaim: gaim (>= 1:2.0.0+beta4)
<chantra> geser: yep, this is running on gaim 2 beta4 API
<chantra> which is different than 1.5
<chantra> or even 2 beta3
<lucas> does gimp work for you guys ?
<lucas> the splash screen halts on xsane for me
<chantra> lucas: works here
<chantra> no xsane installed though
<lucas> ah, just worked, but stayed on sane for something like 30s
<geser> chantra: you have in you control file gaim (>= 2.0.0+beta4) and 2.0.0+beta4 is smaller than 1:1.5.0 (shortened version from gaim in dapper) because of the epoch
<chantra> geser: oh yeah, it has to be 1:2.0.0+beta4
<chantra> no?
<geser> yes
<geser> chantra: next bug: the current package ftbfs as it references dpatch in debian/rules but doesn't build-depend on it
<geser> as you don't use dpatch you can remove it from the rules file
<chantra> geser: reuploaded it :)
<geser> chantra: it builds now
<zul> so uh someone has released fiesty kind of early http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5694152032.html
<bhale> nice
<zul> ahhahah...they have their accound suspended
<bhale> i think that was the wrong link
<bhale> that was about mepis
<zul> nope linuxmint.com is suspended
<bhale> oh
<sivang> is this the not so leagle distro? ;)
<bhale> legal
<sivang> I never said I know how to spell ;)
<Sp4rKy> can i force package installation even if the preinst script returns an arror code ?
<Adri2000> Sp4rKy: have you tried --force-all ?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: you can edit the preinst script to fix the problem
<Adri2000> LaserJock: good idea :p
<geser> LaserJock: according to http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts the files are only unpacked if the preinst succeeds
<geser> this means the preinst must be fixed in the deb file
<LaserJock> ahh, I was assuming it was an upgrade
<LaserJock> in which case I believe it tries the previous preinst that does exist
<geser> even on upgrade the new files are unpacked if the preinst succeeds
<geser> only if
<LaserJock> geser: yeah, I but I thought that if the preinst of the new package fails it tries the preinst of the previous version, that is unpacked
<LaserJock> so if it's failing on the existing preinst he might be able to fix it
<LaserJock> but I could be totally wrong
<LaserJock> it's been a while since I read the Debian docs on that
<geser> if the old prerm fails dpkg tries the new prerm
<geser> the diagrams from Marga are a good help
<fgiraldeau> I have a little problem with dput
<fgiraldeau> No signature on /home/francis/XTERM/branches/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-loadbalancer_1.2.0-2_i386.changes
<fgiraldeau> My packages are signed, I got ltsp-loadbalancer_1.2.0-2.dsc.asc
<pygi> fgiraldeau: that means they are not signed.
<fgiraldeau> Should I sign the changes file too?
<pygi> when you get .asc then it isn't signed :)
<LaserJock> fgiraldeau: you shouldn't be uploading binary packages either
<fgiraldeau> Right.
<fgiraldeau> Ok, I think that the upload succeed.
<fgiraldeau> That's the very first time I do that
<fgiraldeau> The package is ltsp-loadbalancer
<pygi> fgiraldeau: wait, let it appear first :)
<fgiraldeau> Ok, thanks
<fgiraldeau> Well, should I upload to edgy or fiesty?
<LaserJock> for REVU?
<dholbach> fgiraldeau: edgy is closed - you can only upload to feisty
<fgiraldeau> I did tests only on edgy, I will return to my homeworks.
<xopher> How long does it usually take for reviewers to take a look at REVU packages?
<ajmitch> xopher: it varies, depending on how busy people are
<xopher> Im sure it does, but Im looking for an answer which would describe the time in something more concrete. Like a few days, a week etc..
<imbrandon> ajmitch: got a sec ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: briefly
<imbrandon> i got it, nvm thanks
<imbrandon> but i need a windows guru for one question
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> gawd i hate windows
<nixternal> [16:47:12]  <imbrandon> but i need a windows guru for one question
<nixternal> hmmm
<nixternal> i hope that questions is "why?"
<Burgwork> imbrandon: what is your issue?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'll just go back to sleep then
<imbrandon> Burgwork: its a sql server question i am awnsering for a questionaire
<imbrandon> Your MS SQL 2000 server has been setup in Mixed Mode.  You need to login to the server to check what service pack level it is on.  You are not a domain admin.  Can you access the sql server and if so how will you find the service pack level.
<imbrandon> ^^ i'm like man i dunno windows
<Burgwork> imbrandon: that is a bunch of error messages all at once and I have never played with ms sql 2000
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> no biggie, it was the only windows question on the whole thing, i just skipped it
<Burgwork> http://www.hostmysite.com/support/vps/windows/mixedmode/
<Burgwork> apparently it is to do with authentication
<Burgwork> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/fq00-035.mspx and http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/Bulletin/MS01-032.mspx
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> back later
<imbrandon> later
<imbrandon> haha i love fabio's changelog for mdadm
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-17
<fgiraldeau> Ok, I did tests on feisty for my package and I'm ready to upload
<fgiraldeau> I got this error : Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<imbrandon> fgiraldeau: is a new package not in ubuntu or a patch for an existing one ?
<imbrandon> fgiraldeau: that means you dont have upload rights
<fgiraldeau> This is a new package
<imbrandon> ok and your uploading to REVU ?
<fgiraldeau> Yes. Is it correct?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> have you added your self to the lp team?
<imbrandon> and has a admin synced the keyring ?
<fgiraldeau> I'm in this team : ubuntu-universe-contributors
<imbrandon> yes, one sec lemme sync the keyring
<imbrandon> gah i cant do it atm, ajmitch are you still arround ?
<fgiraldeau> imbrandon : Thanks for all your time
<imbrandon> fgiraldeau: no problem, sorry i cant login to tiber atm, ajmitch  or other revu admin will have to sync the keyring
<fgiraldeau> I promess to Gideon to upload this package today :)
<imbrandon> when they become non-afk
<fgiraldeau> Right, no problem
<imbrandon> ok back in about an hour
* imbrandon is away
<fgiraldeau> I will be back too in one hour
<doko> dholbach, vil: any progress towards becoming a MOTU?
<vil> doko: did not progress much till last time
<dholbach> doko: I didn't work closely enough with vil to say something about it
<dholbach> vil: hey... how are you?
<vil> dholbach: fine, thx
<dholbach> vil: what would you like to work on?
<vil> dholbach: I am particulary interested in eclipse and java
<dholbach> woah nice
<vil> dholbach: also python is my favorite, but do not have much experience with that
<dholbach> vil: did you find anything to work on already?
<pygi> vil: you can be tutored on that ^_^
<vil> dholbach: doko helped me to publish eclipse-pydev so far
<dholbach> cool
<pygi> vil: whatever you need, feel free to ask ^_^
* pygi is also always willing to help
<vil> pygi: seeing your nick you seem to like python
<pygi> lol ^_^
<doko> dholbach: plus he helped with updating patches for eclipse-3.2 and packaging build dependencies
<dholbach> vil: as pygi said, if you need anything - just shout
<vil> doko: yes, that's me
<dholbach> vil: good work
<pygi> vil: I can instruct you about dark magic of how burning works on low levels ^_^
<vil> dholbach: so what can I do to become one of the masters?
<pygi> dholbach: btw. if you need me to package anything this weekend, you shout ^_^
<pygi> vil: just contribute, get your gpg key signed, and appear in front of council ^_^
<vil> pygi: I am not quite sure if should ask about burning. does it hurt? :)
<pygi> vil: always :P If I have to translate: cd recording ^_^
<vil> pygi: for gpg - task completed
<pygi> vil: nice ^_^
<dholbach> pygi: why do you use "^_^" after every sentence?
<vil> you should be able to find my key signed by kabi@debian.org
<pygi> dholbach: dunno, will stop :P
<pygi> dholbach: sorry
<dholbach> I didn't ask you to stop i t - I just wondered ;-)
<vil> dholbach: now he will use :P lol
<pygi> dholbach: dunno, just happy :P Won't be after today again, but oh well :)
<pygi> vil: ergh :)
<dholbach> :-)
<pygi> dholbach: o, btw. (/me bugs again) libburn is now up to par with cdrecord cd-recording tasks ^_^
<vil> dholbach: what about second task - contributing
<pygi> in theory ^_^
<pygi> vil: well, write patches/package them, work on new packages, etc, etc
<dholbach> pygi: nice
<pygi> ups, I did it again, that smiley :P
<dholbach> vil: doko just told me what you worked on up until now - to me it sounds like you should go for MOTU soon :-)
<vil> pygi: ok, I mean when am I ready to stand in front of the council?
<pygi> vil: as dh said ... soon :)
<dholbach> vil: with what doko told me, I think you are
<pygi> dholbach: /me will never be motu, damn keys, and my exams for stopping me come to UDS :)
<pygi> but me just stops and goes away not to bug people working ...
<vil> pygi: you're welcome :)
<pygi> vil: hehe :)
<vil> pygi: for me it was perfect invitation
<pygi> vil: I'm welcome for what, heh? :P
<dholbach> vil: did you read  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newdev ?
<vil> dholbach: I guess yes, but reading it again does not hurt
<dholbach> vil: are you an ubuntumember already?
<vil> dholbach: I have signed the manifest but did not ask any council, yet
<dholbach> vil: then you should do that first and ask doko to be at the next CC meeting too, so he can do the cheerleading for you :-)    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewMemberHowto
<pygi> vil: oh, you have to become member first prior to motu
* ajmitch returns from lunch
<vil> doko: well, will you be my cheeleader on the next CC?
<pygi> dholbach: didn't we had those exceptions where you could apply for both in one run?
<vil> doko: it seems that it does not have a date, yet.
<doko> vil, dholbach: I won't have email access next week, so maybe somebody else can do that
<dholbach> pygi: probably, yes - the documents are quite confusing
<dholbach> pygi: we're changing the process currently
<vil> pygi, I am not in a rush, but if we can make it short, I would not argue ;)
<dholbach> but until then we stick to the old process
<pygi> dholbach: does one involve being able to upload with keys signed by DD's or UD's? :P
<dholbach> hm?
<ajmitch> you really really should have that signature
<pygi> ajmitch: I know, but no one to sign :-/
<pygi> dholbach: without*
<vil> how often does the CC meet?
<vil> dholbach: and is it possible to make it in one round like pygi suggested?
<LaserJock> vil: generally every 2 weeks I believe
<dholbach> vil: then you should try to make the next ubuntu-dev meeting
<dholbach> aeh
<dholbach> TB meeting
<dholbach> and join the ubuntu-dev team
<vil> dholbach: was not able to find the next CC meeting
<dholbach> then it has not been announced yet
<vil> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda just mentions the last one a moth ago
<dholbach> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<dholbach> so it's not been announced yet
<ajmitch> hopefully there's another one soon
<ajmitch> I wonder when CC nominations happen
<bhale> dholbach: nice to see you on our schedule!
<bhale> still awake
<ajmitch> hello bhale
<pygi> vil: good luck on a meeting
<dholbach> bhale: on your schedule? :)
<bhale> dholbach: yes.
<vil> pygi: thx
<pygi> vil: and please do shout if there is anything you need, we'll be more then glad to help
<pygi> and one more thing you'll learn is that I often very annoy people
<vil> dholbach: thx for introduction to the processes, I have to read all that stuff
<vil> pygi: lol
<dholbach> vil: just add yourself to the ubuntu-dev team and be sure to be at the next TB meeting (once a date is set)
<dholbach> vil: if you need anything else, let me know
<vil> dholbach: first I have to be a member, right?
<pygi> vil: you said you'll try both so shhh :)
<dholbach> vil: you should attend the meeting whichever comes first :-)
<vil> I am somewhat slow, but now I get it
<minghua> ajmitch: remember the bug about GCC_4.2.0 symbol discussed here a few days ago?
<ajmitch> yes
<minghua> I found Debian bug #386121 about exactly this issue
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 386121 in libstdc++6 "libstdc++6: Incompatibility with older libgcc_s.so.1" [Important,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/386121
<ajmitch> linked the launchpad bug to that?
<minghua> just in case you are interested :-)
<ajmitch> not particularly, it didn't affect me
<minghua> ajmitch: now which LP bug was that?  :-P
<ajmitch> doko may be interested though :)
* ajmitch goes to search his bugmail folder
<doko> ajmitch: not a bug
<ajmitch> bug 71559
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71559 in Ubuntu "libgcc_s.so.1 prob? libstdc++.so.1 and libgcj.so.70 complain about GCC_4.2.0 no being found" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71559
<ajmitch> doko: good to know
<minghua> it shouldn't affect anybody who don't use broken third-party software (by broken means it provides its own libgcc_s.so.1)
<minghua> yeah, doko said it's not a bug in the Debian bug, so no point to bother him with the ubuntu bug, I suppose
<ajmitch> he's already been bothered now :)
<LaserJock> minghua: you don't need readline support for that gnuplot history thing?
<minghua> LaserJock: I don't know, note I said "may" :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: the upstream web page is rather unclear either
<minghua> I suppose I need to try a real configure to find out
<minghua> LaserJock: I can't imagine Fedora violating GPL though, as --with-readline=gnu has been available for years
<LaserJock> well, every distro I've know except Debian has had readline support in gnuplot
<minghua> oh.
<LaserJock> I don't really get it but apparently Debian doesn't like it
<ajmitch> if readline is GPL, and gnuplot isn't, you won't be compiling readline support in
<minghua> LaserJock: it's really crystal-clear case:  your license is not compatible with GPL, you can't link to GPL library.  period.
<LaserJock> right, but ever distro I've used other then Debian/Ubuntu has had it
<azeem> there's a BSD-licensed libedit I believe, which might be binary-compatible to libreadline
<minghua> azeem: thanks, I'll look into that
<minghua> the description of libedit2 says "it slightly resembles GNU readline" though
<LaserJock> but yeah, that was my first intro to debian packaging
<azeem> minghua: maybe gnuplot can use it, dunno
<nixternal> imbrandon: how long does kvirc build for?  jeesh
<nixternal> i started the build and left for dinner, came back and it is still building
<zul> thats nothing
<minghua> try leave for sleep next time? :-P
<nixternal> ya, but we are talking an IRC client
<minghua> nixternal: I remember imbradon mentioning kvirc took surprisingly long time to build as well
<nixternal> i think he did as well
<nixternal> wow..it has been going for probably 45min now
<nixternal> this isn't the strongest computer, but it isn't the weakest either
<nixternal> how come an updated package never showed up in the feisty changes list or one p.u.c, but if i apt-cache show it, it shows the updated package
<Adri2000> nixternal: is it an autosynced package?
<minghua> p.u.c is pretty outdated from what I heard
<nixternal> no it wasn't
<nixternal> ahhh
<fernando> hi all
<chillywilly> lol @ The Office
<chillywilly> that show is flippin hilarious
<nixternal> haha
<bhale> chillywilly: dude
<nixternal> my name is earl is better
<bhale> chillywilly: the product placement was awful
<bhale> nixternal: ...
<bhale> no one would watch Earl if it wasnt before the office
<chillywilly> I like both of them
<chillywilly> no way...I like what's his face from all the Kevin Smith movies
<nixternal> is the ... good or bad?
<bhale> bad
<nixternal> hehe
<chillywilly> >:-|
<chillywilly> I shall eat your children
<chillywilly> muwaahahahaha
<nixternal> heck ya chillywilly!
<nixternal> i forgot his name..and the name he goes by in mallrats and what not as well
<nixternal> Brody
<bhale> the guy staring at the picture?
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> the comic book man
<bhale> oh
<bhale> keep making dick and fark jokes man!
<nixternal> i haven't seen clerks 2 yet
<nixternal> the big fat one?
<nixternal> i forgot his name too
<nixternal> hahaha
<LaserJock> phew, I was worried I missed them
<LaserJock> thank goodness for PST
<nixternal> lol
<LaserJock> my only reason for having a TV is Thursday night
<LaserJock> well, there are some movies I like too
<LaserJock> but Earl and the Office are the only TV shows I watch
<chillywilly> other than the SciFi channel ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I don't get the SciFi channel
<nixternal> have you seen the 40yo virgin?
<LaserJock> only local stations
<LaserJock> nixternal: no
<nixternal> hhe
<nixternal> haha, that guy had me laughing so hard in that movie
<nixternal> when they wax his chest hair....my god you could see he was dead serious during that
<LaserJock> nixternal: you seen Nacho LIbre?
<nixternal> no
* nixternal looks it up
<nixternal> is it new?
<nixternal> omg, jack black..ahahahahah
<nixternal> i gotta get that
<LaserJock> well, it's Jack Black and one of the guys that made Napoleon Dynamite
<LaserJock> I haven't seen it
<LaserJock> but it looks interesting
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I just watched it.
<_MMA_> It was ok. I dont know if it will grow on me like Napoleon Dynamite. Was ok. Worth it to see once.
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> im watching the trailer
<LaserJock> yeah, I think I'll rent it once at least
<nixternal> hit him in the chest with a bee hive
<_MMA_> THAT was funny. :)
<LaserJock> I don't think I've ever seen a Jack Black movie
<bddebian> Don't bother :-)
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Didnt see 40year old virgin?
<LaserJock> no
<_MMA_> I watch that once a week. :)
<nixternal> what?
<nixternal> jack black is nuts
<_MMA_> nixternal: Hes great in High Fidelity.
<LaserJock> I watched these Jack Black "making of" movies of Nacho Libre
<LaserJock> quite funny
<LaserJock> the waxing was what reminded me of it
<LaserJock> he gets his whole chest waxed
<nixternal> high fidelity rocked
<nixternal> in 40yo virgin, they put a smiley face in his chest...he makes up cuss words it hurts so bad
<nixternal> you could actually see the pain when they did it
<_MMA_> "Man-o-latern"
<nixternal> hahaha
<chillywilly> poor pam
<_MMA_> nixternal: In the "making of" they show him afterwords getting burn cream out on the areas he got waxes. The blood was real.
<_MMA_> *waxed
<LaserJock> chillywilly: don't spoil it for me :p
<chillywilly> ouch
<chillywilly> you're not watching it?
<LaserJock> no
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> it's only 6:20 here
<nixternal> hmm..i might go payperview the ground truth
<nixternal> jeesh, 503 emails for feisty-changes
<nixternal> heh
<ajmitch> tis nothing
<nixternal> i just got bombed
<ajmitch> don't subscribe to ubuntu-bugs then
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> when i was watching pr0n it was..
<nixternal> i mean youtube
<nixternal> not boogs, changes ;)
<nixternal> i wanna see all of those in the next uwn for feisty updates ;)
<ajmitch> crimsun: "afraid of sunlight"?
<crimsun> that's what Flash does to me
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> crimsun: do you have food delivered to your computer?
<ajmitch> ah, bddebian is here
<LaserJock> or maybe you don't even need food
<bddebian> No he's not
* LaserJock ponders
<crimsun> LaserJock: I haven't done that in a while
<bddebian> LaserJock: He's a machine, he doesn't need food
<ajmitch> we don't need council greyskull
<ajmitch> we have crimsun (and bddebian)
<LaserJock> mhm
<bddebian> heh
<psusi> anyone here know a lot about the new features in ext?  specifically the resize inode, dir_index, and filetype?
<psusi> I'm trying to patch defrag to handle them properly
<jdong_> psusi: heh, e2defrag is still alive?
<jdong_> psusi: I wrote pyfragtools (lp/product/$@) for that purpose :D
<psusi> sort of... the package is still in the archive, though it has been failing to build for the last two releases
<psusi> I'm dusting it off
<jdong_> psusi: it's a FS-neutral data defragger
<jdong_> doesn't do crap about free space
<psusi> I've already made 5 patches to fix bugs and make it work with modern formats, and use sane amounts of buffer cache on modern machines
<jdong_> :)
<psusi> fs jeutral?
<psusi> fs neutral even?
<jdong_> psusi: yeah
<jdong_> psusi: it uses FBIOMAP
<psusi> ahhhh
<jdong_> psusi: which is implemented for practically everything :D
<psusi> and copies/deletes the file until it is contiguous? ;)
<jdong_> psusi: basically yeah
<jdong_> psusi: it's pretty damn effective at getting the job done :D
<psusi> itit doesn't work so good on filesystems that use sub block allocating
<jdong_> maybe not
<jdong_> I've used it effectively on ext3, reiserfs, and JFS though
<psusi> yea, but it doesn't have the cool dancing block ansii map like defrag does ;)
<jdong_> though JFS really didn't need it :D
<psusi> what happens when it hits tails on reiser?
<jdong_> psusi: they're not fragmented by definition? :D
<psusi> yea they are
<psusi> the last part of the file data is stored elsewhere from the rest of it
<psusi> and there may be multiple tails in the same block
<jdong_> interesting point
<fgiraldeau> Hi there, I'm ready to upload a package and would like to know if my gpg key has been included in the list
<jdong_> psusi: in which case it would be a WONTFIX --> e2fsprogs::filefrags bug :D
<psusi> I've been toying around with another idea lately too... du is horribly slow on large directories because it stat()s each inode in the order that readdir() returns them... which has a completely random relationship to the disk block order of the inodes
<psusi> so du causes a massive seek storm
<jdong_> yep
<psusi> would be nice for readdir() to return directories in the order that their inodes appear on disk
<psusi> but right now I'm trying to figure out WTF these new ext features are
<jdong_> hehe
<psusi> I got it to at least not corrupt the fs anymore, but it is treating the resize inode as bad blocks
<psusi> I'd like it to be able to move it
<psusi> I still don't even understand WTF the resize inode is
<psusi> and why it is created by default
<psusi> average users don't need to resize the fs on the fly
<psusi> and it appears to reserve a good chunk of disk space
<psusi> dapper did not have this
<psusi> jdong_, you have universe upload access?
<jdong_> psusi: no, sir
* psusi is looking for a sponsor to upload
<jdong_> hehe
* jdong_ does that a bit too :D
<jdong_> any suggestions on how to gauge upload speed in a python script?
<LaserJock> nixternal: hmmm
<LaserJock> "I played around with LaserJock ..." ?
<ajmitch> haha
<psusi> jdong_, same way you do it in any language?  bytes send divided by time
<jdong_> psusi: where to, though?
<Lathiat> psusi: AIUI, to resize the FS
<Lathiat> psusi: you neeed to expand the INODE table? (or something)
<Lathiat> so it reserves space to do that
<Lathiat> it does this so you can expand online
<Lathiat> i could be off the mark but thats how i understand it anyway
<psusi> AIUI?
<Lathiat> as i unstand it
<psusi> ahh
<psusi> and it has to reserve it when the fs is created so it can be sure to grab the fixed blocks where the expanded inode table must be located?
<psusi> I see.... then yea... you don't want to go moving those blocks around ;)
<Lathiat> http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0409.3/1569.html
<jdong_> wow did universe get a new shipment of packages :D
<psusi> I saw that email aready and it doesn't seem tob e relatred
<psusi> related even
<psusi> that seems to be talking about getting rid of a dummy in memory only inode that was used as a means of adding new blocks to the free list ( by unlinking an inode that had those blocks allocated )
<Lathiat> ah ok
<psusi> but oh well.... defrag at least refuses to move the inode so it doesn't clobber the fs
<psusi> maybe now I can find someone to upload it ;)
<psusi> though I think we should also turn off the expand inode by default... average desktop users don't need to be able to expand the fs on the fly
<psusi> if they really want to they can just boot from the livecd and use gparted
* ajmitch likes being able to expand the fs
<psusi> wait a second...
<psusi> why does space need reserved for expanding?  if you expand the fs, you will be adding the new inodes and bitmaps in the new space
<psusi> not converting existing data blocks into inodes
* ajmitch looks at the cost of getting another sata disk
<psusi> wait a second...
<psusi> shouldn't this control file specify ALL for Architecture:?  not any?
<Lathiat> psusi: my limited understanding of filesystems indicates theres an area that maps out the in use inodes.. or something
<psusi> err... maybe I got those backwards again
<Lathiat> which it reserves additional space for so it can expand without unmounting the filesystem
<Lathiat> arguably a technical limitation
<ajmitch> psusi: yep, arch: any means compile for any arch
<psusi> which one means build for each availible architecture, and which one means build once and it runs on all architectures?
<psusi> Lathiat, it doesn't make sense to reserve any space though since the space for the new data does not exist yet... it will be in the new area after the fs is expanded
<psusi> you can't reserve something that does not yet exist
<Lathiat> psusi: no this is part of a map of the inodes that is created in the existing space
<Lathiat> and apparently ext3 cant "add more to that map" whiel the FS is mounted
<Lathiat> but if it pre-allocates it, it can
<Lathiat> again, im arguing blind here, youd be best to speak to someone who knows more than i do :)
<psusi> the inodes are stored in blocks at known intervals throughout the disk... so when you expand the fs and need to add more inodes, you add them to the new area, not the old
<psusi> heh
<Lathiat> then im possibly wron gbut it *definitely* needs to reserve some space int he existing part of the disk
<Lathiat> for somethign!
<Lathiat> who knows what
<Lathiat> i thought it was a map of in use/not in use inodes, i may be wrong
<Lathiat> probably am
<psusi> afaik, the inodes and allocation bitmaps are in blocks of fixed size at fixed intervals throughout the disk... so if you add more disk, you add more inodes and bitmaps in the new part of the disk, not the old
* psusi needs to track down Theodore Ts'o
<psusi> anyone feel like testing my defrag fixes?  and maybe uploading them?
<psusi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defrag/+bug/6546
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6546 in defrag "Failed to build on amd64" [Medium,Needs info] 
* psusi pokes Ubugtu... what other tricks you do bot?
<Lathiat> psusi: i cant help but think witha tool a particularly potentially data destroying as defrag, poking those patches around upstream before uploading them to ubuntu might be usefull?
<psusi> Lathiat, well, the version currently in the archive is KNOWN to eat filesystems.... my fixed version doesn't to my knowlege ;)
<psusi> and I fear there isn't much upstream...
<psusi> the package doesn't appear to be maintained really
<ajmitch> yay, new samba to merge, just when i was doing 3.0.23c
<psusi> the debian maintainer appears to only apply patches that users submit to him
<psusi> very infrequently
<Lathiat> psusi: hrm, right
<psusi> also there is currently only an i386 binary in the archive, and that is from breezy
<Lathiat> heh
<psusi> cause it has failed to build from source on dapper and edgy
<Lathiat> awesome :/
<psusi> got to love it ;)
<psusi> anyhow.... I'll do some more testing on some larger filesystems and see if it screws the pooch
<psusi> but so far, it is working well on dapper on i386 and edgy on amd64
<psusi> of course, the package description still says THIS CAN EAT YOUR DATA, SO BACK UP FIRST ;)
<nixternal> LaserJock: you prevert!
<LaserJock> you said it!!
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> where did i say that?
<nixternal> oh, the blog post
<imbrandon> re
<imbrandon> ohhh looks like keybuk dud a ton of debian to ubuntu NEW
<imbrandon> let the fun begin
<nixternal> mote?
<nixternal> 503 to be exact
<imbrandon> i have 520+ since i loged in last , but still , the fun has started
<imbrandon> now i can properly update a few things
<nixternal> anything you need help with that doesn't require brain surgery, i can help ya out
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> lemme look, i think i have a "junior job" for ya somewhere as it was put at UDS :)
<imbrandon> serouisly one sec
<imbrandon> you dont have access to a ppc do you ?
<LaserJock> nixternal: fix Universe
<nixternal> woohoo
<LaserJock> that'd help
<nixternal> haha "junior job", i love it
<imbrandon> haha thats what we called jobs that dident require tons of experince
<imbrandon> at UDS :)
<LaserJock> comes from KDE
<bddebian> Hmm, that's my kind of work :)
<nixternal> x86 is all i have
<LaserJock> bddebian is king of junior jobs
<imbrandon> if you have access to a pcc nixternal you can do my mol merge
<bddebian> hmm
<imbrandon> if not i'll find someonthg else
<nixternal> LaserJock: point me in the right direction ;p
<imbrandon> we're gonna make a MOTU out of nixternal yet this release
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: why all of a sudden the harping on KDE, just the other day you said gnome was for *$)*#$#
<ajmitch> if only I could be a MOTU
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> nixternal:  "Go... fly...you are free...To fix the universe!"
<ajmitch> php has drilled holes in my skull & sucked any brains out that I had
<imbrandon> nixternal: you can do this merge if you want, its mine and should be pretty streight forward , http://merges.ubuntu.com/d/drip/REPORT
<nixternal> find something else, as the only processor i buy and support start with an A, has the middle initial M, and the last name starts with D
<LaserJock> nixternal: harping?
<nixternal> jMOTU
<imbrandon> nixternal: you can do this merge if you want, its mine and should be pretty streight forward , http://merges.ubuntu.com/d/drip/REPORT
<imbrandon> gah sorry
<nixternal> kinda like jROTC
<imbrandon> lol
<nixternal> bushism im sure
<nixternal> imbrandon: is that an actual package or a personal issue?
<imbrandon> thats a merge that i did last cycle so i was the last to touch it
<imbrandon> its on merges.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> it should be a simple one to look over
<imbrandon> iirc
<nixternal> k, i need merge experience, so this could be a start...shouldn't take no longer then 3
<nixternal> months
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> merges are the best practice for new MOTU imho, lots of diffrent situations in there
<imbrandon> then LP cherry picking patches is probably the next on the list
<ajmitch> imbrandon: can I do some merges please sir?
* nixternal reads MOTU/Merging for backup
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hahaha
<ajmitch> sorry, 5:30pm friday, I was up till 2AM :)
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> that sounds like fun
<ajmitch> playing with samba & AD
<nixternal> ajmitch: your such a no0b
<nixternal> ;p
<ajmitch> yeah I am
<ajmitch> teach me your sk1llz!
<nixternal> sjMOTU == super jr. MOTU
<imbrandon> thats ok, my brother and his old lady have been fighting the last 48 hours so he has been over at my house, and when me and him get togather its like a redneck bar
<ajmitch> sjMOTU = jesuit MOTU
<nixternal> yay samba
<nixternal> it just works for me
* imbrandon has a case of pbr beside his computer chair, listening to slipknot
<ajmitch> uh oh
<imbrandon> looking at merges
<nixternal> sed the WORKGROUP to make it = my network, then restart samba ;p
<ajmitch> new xen crack imported from debian
<ajmitch> it may cause issues
<nixternal> haha jesuit MOTU
<imbrandon> wonderfull
* ajmitch will code up a quick interface to things like 'net ads join'
<nixternal> imbrandon: that isn't redneck, the is white trash
<imbrandon> hahah not much diff in this part of the country
<nixternal> pbr == poor man's OE
<imbrandon> pbr == good
<imbrandon> corona == better
<LaserJock> pbr == professional bull riding
<LaserJock> sorry, I'm from Montana
<imbrandon> pabst blue ribon
<imbrandon> berr
<imbrandon> beer
<imbrandon> gah
<nixternal> water == best
<ajmitch> ok, I'm off home, back online soon
<imbrandon> later ajmitch
<nixternal> ya LaserJock, you just showed off your true hillbilly instincts
<nixternal> ya, it will make you go berr
<nixternal> from trying not to throw up
<nixternal> thanks for the warning ajmitch
<LaserJock> my gosh, them there eastern'rs have "paved" roads
<nixternal> i just did a save as with ff on my feisty box, and the save window was #6569ae
<imbrandon> true redneck is when you have to watch what can you pickup to drink because your GF might have used it for a spit cup
<nixternal> talk about not right
<LaserJock> imbrandon: oh yeah
* imbrandon has been there
<LaserJock> always use a clear bottle
<nixternal> i love um too
<imbrandon> mt dew bottle, pepsi clear bottles can be brown liquid, still not good
<imbrandon> mt is never brown
<nixternal> although, the grand canyon don't have anything on the chicago pot holes
<imbrandon> its sad when you know that
<imbrandon> wow i must really be a redneck at heart
<LaserJock> mhm
<bddebian> Are you dissing us rednecks?
<LaserJock> bddebian: we *are* the rednecks ;-)
<imbrandon> bddebian: no , i'm just trying to deny my nickname Riddell gave me at UDS
<bddebian> :-)
<imbrandon> hehe but its not working
<imbrandon> i never thought about a redneck geek though, we must be a small minority
<bddebian> Heh, that's no shit :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i seen a cool button i'm going to make into a paypal graphic for my site and take the google ad's off, it had a face holding a sign "not hungry, just broke" click here , etc etc etc
<imbrandon> i thought that was classic, and after 2 years of google ad's i made a whole $8 UDS, they are ugly and do no good
<imbrandon> :)
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> USD*
<LaserJock> it's getting to you
<imbrandon> hahah yea
<crimsun> $8 UDS? wow even I can afford that
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<crimsun> maybe I'll be able to swing the next UDS at that rate
<crimsun> hi
<imbrandon> hehehe
<bddebian> Hah
<imbrandon> actualy i dont even know why i put them up in the first place, my hosting is only ~120 a year for 200GB space and 2TB bandwidth an month , but it seemed like a good idea then
<imbrandon> and last i looked ( about a week ago ) i use about a whole 2% of that, thus why i give anyone that needs a web home some space ( within reason )
<imbrandon> and that 2% is including running a mirror for Seveas and i get about 2k hits a day on my blog
<imbrandon> sooo , google ad's kinda useless
* imbrandon stops talking to himself
<LaserJock> 2k hits a day on your blog?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea last i looked that was avarage
<imbrandon> lemme check
* LaserJock is a blogging loser
<imbrandon> wow its went up , LaserJock http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss117.png
* ajmitch returns
<imbrandon> good now i dont have to talk to myself :)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> now I can get back to real hacking
* ajmitch looks over at win2k3
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I'm doing < 2k
* bddebian doesn't know what "real hacking" is
<crimsun> deities don't need to hack. They just think, and stuff appears bug-free.
<ajmitch> mere mortals like crimsun & I have to work hard at it
<ajmitch> though I'm not even close to crimsun's abilities
<bddebian> Gah, I really don't know why I continue to come here
<crimsun> my disabilities? hehe
<ajmitch> because you love us all
<bddebian> Well that's true :_)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: one thing I lack for a blog - somewhere to put it :)
<ajmitch> the other thing being lack of motivation
<minghua> is there any SRU already entered -updates?
<ajmitch> minghua: I don't think so yet
<minghua> ajmitch: is there any way to know easily?  like a -update-changes list or something?  I want to manually subscribe as bug contact to SRUed packages to do the triaging work I proposed
<ajmitch> no idea, sorry
* ajmitch is not involved in the sru process at all
<LaserJock> do we have anything in -proposed yet?
<ajmitch> I don't know - people have filed bugs for SRUs
<minghua> didn't Fujitsu upload his gcl/maxima fix to -proposed?
* minghua goes check the archive
<LaserJock> not sure if it went to -proposed or not
<imbrandon> heh ajmitch i can give you a spot to put it, thats not a probelm :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the lack of anything to write about is a problem though :)
<imbrandon> hehe yea that could be :)
<minghua> nah.  both dapper-proposed and edgy-proposed seem to be empty for universe
* ajmitch never has anything useful to say
<crimsun> well, the only thing I have to blog about from Warty through Edgy is "I hate quirks."
<imbrandon> i tried to upload something to edgy-proposed a few days ago, and its silently dissapeared
<imbrandon> no idea why
<crimsun> so two years of blogging summarised in three words.
<ajmitch> probably goes into an unapproved queue
<ajmitch> crimsun: impressive
<nixternal> imbrandon: drip is 0.9.0-3 in debian unstable, and the current one we have is rc3, so, i would just grab the debian one, as the only change between our rules file and theirs is that
<nixternal> # Don't ship static libraries or .la files with our plugins. We're just an app..
<nixternal>         rm -f $(CURDIR)/debian/drip/usr/lib/*a
<nixternal> and in ubuntu rc3, it was to chmod 0644 tthose files
<imbrandon> you are looking at more than just the rules right? if so it might just be a sync
<imbrandon> i havent looked this round
<nixternal> so, i could test build it here, and if it works, post a bug with the logfile and request a sync?
<nixternal> well, in debian unstable it is a new upstream release
<nixternal> no longer a release candidate for one
<nixternal> and there were no ubuntu specific patches from what i could see
<imbrandon> nixternal: thats not what i ment, e.g did you grab the merge from merges.ubuntu.com, its there becouse there was some kinda of delta
<imbrandon> if that delta is no longer needed then yes go through the sync process
<imbrandon> nixternal: whats the changelog say ?
<nixternal> http://merges.ubuntu.com/d/drip/
<imbrandon> ?
<nixternal> debian or ubuntu?
<imbrandon> the ubuntu one , what is the reason for the diffrence
* imbrandon looks, one sec
<imbrandon> ahh yea, looks to be just a sync, make sure it builds fine , then file a sync request with all the nessesary info as per normal
* minghua installs ubuntu-desktop in his feisty Kubuntu
<nixternal> roger dodger
<crimsun> time to remove ~/.mozilla/plugins/
<imbrandon> crimsun: ?
<crimsun> less than a half-hour until flashplugin-nonfree 9.0.21.55.2ubuntu1 binaries hit.
<imbrandon> ahh right
<imbrandon> i noticed that too
<ajmitch> crimsun: it'll automagically upgrade peoples' flash 7 setup?
* nixternal gets to erasing
<imbrandon> ajmitch: from the changelog it looks to be so
<bddebian> Gnight gents
* ajmitch appears to have flash 7 installed from elsewhere
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<imbrandon> ajmitch: gnash ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> but I don't have a flash package installed
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> yea i need to clean out my plugins
<crimsun> ajmitch: it eliminates some hacky stuff Simon and I worked on for 7.0.68, yeah
<imbrandon> i have no idea whats installed and whats not
<crimsun> ...that's bad.
<imbrandon> as far as flash wise from source or plugins packages
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch only has flash in ~/.mozilla/plugins
<nixternal> who do i subscribe for sync requests?
<ajmitch> ubuntu-universe-sponsors, who will then check it
<ajmitch> (aka crimsun)
<minghua> since when does firefox's postinst says "restart any running firefoxES"?
<Mez> I thought it was
<crimsun> you may as well just tell me the bug # now.
<Mez> "ubuntu-archive"
<nixternal> thanks
<ajmitch> Mez: preferably not for sponsored uploads
<crimsun> Mez: no, u-u-s does that step
<ajmitch> crimsun: none of the rest of us have any chance...
<nixternal> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/drip/+bug/72131
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72131 in drip "[Feisty MoM]  please sync drip-0.9.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Mez> ajmitch, ah, didnt know nexternal was sponsored, thought he was a dev
<crimsun> nixternal: please follow sync policy [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html ] 
<ajmitch> sync requests need more information, like changelog entries
<ajmitch> as crimsun said
* ajmitch will shut up now
<nixternal> ahhh...got it...will do now crimsun if you want me to carry through on that?
<crimsun> yes, please
<nixternal> no problem...
<crimsun> thanks :-)
<nixternal> crimsun: fixed -> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/drip/+bug/72131
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72131 in drip "[Feisty MoM]  please sync drip-0.9.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<crimsun> nixternal: there are Ubuntu changes [http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/d/drip/drip_0.8.3.2+0.9.0-rc3-7.1ubuntu1/changelog ] 
<crimsun> (hence the version naming)
<nixternal> hrmm...wth was i looking at
<nixternal> i think i overlooked that because all of the changes were in the debian source as well
<nixternal> alrighty, im back..so, should it continue on pressing for a sync, or should it be merged?
<crimsun> on first glance, it looks like a sync, but you need to enumerate each Ubuntu change and affirm that it can be overridden.
<Cas> Hi, What is the correct way to request the inclusion of a program? file a bug on launchpad?
<nixternal> well, each ubuntu change is in the 0.9.0-3 from debian
<Mez> is it "crackful" or "crackfull"
<Mez> to describe something thats full of crack
<nixternal> lol
<crimsun> I tend to use the former
<crimsun> nixternal: then please state as much after each Ubuntu entry
<Mez> anyone else? (i want a concensus)
<Cas> Mez: I put my money on 'crackful' since it's also 'beautiful'
<nixternal> whatever you do, don't google crackfull
<Mez> nixternal i already did
<nixternal> crackufl
<nixternal> hah
* Mez is thinking of a new domain name for a blog
<crimsun> I would use "crackedness" instead
<crimsun> [since crackedness is in the OED] 
<crimsun> "Unsoundness of mind, craziness."
<crimsun> 1910 W. J. LOCKE Simon the Jester xiv, This was sheer crackedness of brain... When people begin to talk that way they are not allowed to go about loose. 1968 Listener 29 Aug. 278/2, I suppose all writers of children's classics have been cracked, or at least extremely weird, One respects their crackedness as a rare endowment.
<joejaxx> crimsun: what are some command line editors other than vim, nano and pico?
<crimsun> joe, evil, mc's built-in one, etc.
<Mez> @dict crackedness
<ubuntu-es> Mez: Error: "dict" is not a valid command.
<imbrandon> emacs ed
<Mez> No results found for crackedness
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i do not know ow to use emacs
<joejaxx> how*
<Mez> hmm @ubuntu-es
* Mez still likes cheesenibbles.com
<crimsun> http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/snap.png
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> what is that you are using crimsun xfce?
<crimsun> yes.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<minghua_> hmm, my feisty system doesn't boot after upgrade
<nixternal> crimsun: how is that :) -> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/drip/+bug/72131
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72131 in drip "[Feisty MoM]  please sync drip-0.9.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<nixternal> ### my comments concerning changes ###
<nixternal> needless to say, everyone of those changes are still in the debian package as well
<crimsun> no, not every single one.
<crimsun> please see 0.8.3.2+0.9.0-rc3-7ubuntu3, which contains an arch delta that has not been carried over into Debian unstable's
<nixternal> so, is that overkill, or flat out wrong?
<crimsun> I'm going to reject the sync request, because drip needs to be merged.
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> so, change the arch: to 386, and then merge, and i should be fine correct?
<crimsun> if you're using MoM's output, that should confirm your work
<nixternal> hah, i think i got it, the patch is my fixall
<nixternal> alrighty..test building now, should i put it up on revu when i am complete?
<crimsun> you can attach it to the sync req
<crimsun> the debdiff, that is
<nixternal> got it
* StevenK twitches at nixternal's message back.
<nixternal> ey?
<StevenK> ## These changes are present ....
<StevenK> <One stanza of the changelog entry>
<StevenK> ...
<crimsun> I think he interpreted my statement above regarding each changelog entry to mean every one, not just the Ubuntu ones
<StevenK> Possibly.
<StevenK> crimsun: Stupid question, if I may?
<crimsun> shoot
<nixternal> i need one of them signs for my nick that says "Newbie on board, stand back"
<StevenK> crimsun: New packages from Debian that Ubuntu has never seen before will be dragged in automatically?
<crimsun> StevenK: yessir
<StevenK> Right.
* StevenK continues to exercise patience.
<nixternal> crimsun: i attached the debdiff to bug 72131
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72131 in drip "[Feisty MoM]  please sync drip-0.9.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72131
<StevenK> Here's a question, why set the arch to i386 only?
<StevenK> PaS is Packages-arch-specific which is a Debian sbuild thing.
<StevenK> nixternal: You forgot to set your name in the latest entry in the changelog.
<nixternal> StevenK: couldn't answer that, as i just do as im told ;)   however, i did wonder the same thing as well
<StevenK> nixternal: You also need to list the Ubuntu changes that remain.
<StevenK> nixternal: I wonder if it builds on amd64
<crimsun> nixternal: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000182.html
<nixternal> wheee
<nixternal> i totally forgot to dch -i
<crimsun> I don't think you meant -i
<nixternal> ya crimsun, i forgot to dch ;(
<nixternal> i always do -i
<nixternal> what is it supposed to be?
<StevenK> dch -a or dch -e
<StevenK> Personally, I just use debian-changelog-mode in emacs.
<nixternal> so just recap the previous ubuntu changes?
<nixternal> and is this [Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic]  supposed to be in there?  from doing dch -a
<StevenK> No.
<nixternal> crimsun: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32270/plain/  <- like this?
<crimsun> nixternal: essentially, but you can combine & clarify a few
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> thank
<nixternal> s
<crimsun> (np. As an aside, I always capitalise 'Debian' out of habit.)
<nixternal> clarify the libmagick portion, or just leave out the instead of?
<crimsun> I'd make one debian/control entry that lists those (and you don't need to list the 'instead of' portion)
<nixternal> well, i actually just got done following the new flash nonfree that came through the changes ;)
<nixternal> that is why it is like debian/rules:
<nixternal> ahh, nm
<nixternal> Debian unstable
<macogw> i dont think nmap is in the repositories
<crimsun> !info nmap
<ubotu> nmap: The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 4.10-1 (edgy), package size 702 kB, installed size 2436 kB
<macogw> wtf
<macogw> mack@mack-laptop:~$ sudo apt-get install nmap
<macogw> Reading package lists... Done
<macogw> Building dependency tree
<macogw> Reading state information... Done
<macogw> E: Couldn't find package nmap
<crimsun> (fix & update your apt cache)
<nixternal> i just installed it earlier
<nixternal> as well
<nixternal> !universe
<ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See also !EasySource
<nixternal> crimsun: hopefully this is the last time i bug you tonight...i have a new debdiff up there now
<crimsun> nixternal: ok, will look in 30 minutes after this phone call if someone else hasn't processed it
<Mez> OMG novell r the sux0rs
<macogw> Err http://packages.freecontrib.org edgy/free Packages
<macogw>   404 Not Found
<macogw> oh well hey that doesnt look good
<crimsun> macogw: nmap is in main, as referenced above.
<macogw> i cant apt-get it and it doesnt show in a synaptic search...i'm doing an apt-get update right now cuz someone just said something about update, but freecontrib cant be found and thats not cool
<crimsun> (freecontrib is irrelevent to nmap)
<nixternal> crimsun: thanks...im gonna hit the sack, but if it is still fubarred, leave your name and number at the beep and I will get back with you as soon as possible ;)
<nixternal> thanks again for the help bud
<crimsun> np, sleep well
* nixternal grabs his dorittos and kicks off into the darkness
<macogw> ok
<macogw> i just replaced my sources.list
<macogw> and now nmap is installing
<Cas> Hi, Can someone tell me what package should have 'intltoolize' ?
<Fujitsu> !find intltoolize
<ubotu> File intltoolize found in intltool
<Fujitsu> ie. it's in intltool.
<Cas> thanks Fujitsu
<Cimi> hi again devs
<Cimi> hi ajmitch
<Cimi> is there anybody here?
* Fujitsu isn't.
<Cimi> ok
* Fujitsu notes that MoM seems to not be autosyncing XubuntuY packages :(
<Fujitsu> Oops, XbuildY.
<xopher> Alliright, Im now on a quest to become a MOTU. First I need to become a member, any hints on what I could do to achieve this?
<ajmitch> do lots of work
<ajmitch> put your name forward
<ajmitch> show up at a CC meeting :)
<crimsun> that explanation rocks.
<ajmitch> thanks, crimsun
<crimsun> np :)
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember has a bit more info
<xopher> So basically I need to either post something remarkable at the wiki or be hyper-active in the forums? What about irc-activity?
<ajmitch> you plan to be a MOTU, so contributions are in the form of packaging
<xopher> That I've been doing a long time already
<xopher> Ok, everythings relative ;) But over a year actively I guess
<ajmitch> then if you have people to support that, and have written up on your wiki page about what you've done, then you're probably eligible
<xopher> Ok, I guess I cant just pick any guy right? I mean it'd look better to have a (signed?) statement from the lead dev of the program right? Or do I need someone with me at the CCmeeting ?
<ajmitch> preferably someone who can show up at the CC meeting & answer questions
<ajmitch> who have you been working with to get things uploaded?
<xopher> Well before I started working with bmpx (Beep-Media-Player) I did a bit uploading for quinn_storm, basically the amd64 branch of compiz-quinn
<ajmitch> right, so stuff outside of ubuntu
<xopher> Basically yes, un-official repositories for ubuntu
* ajmitch doesn't know what the CC does about things like that
<xopher> I uploaded my first thing to REVU yesterday, the bmpx package, so doing things official is quite new for me
<xopher> And I got my gpg-key signed yesterday too, heh, Im really putting some effort in this, well imho at least lol
* Fujitsu suspects that some of the CC members will not particularly like people having worked on external repositories, but they might.
<Hobbsee> xopher: based on how it's known to break things...i'm not sure that they do a lot
<Hobbsee> s/ xopher / ajmitch /
* ajmitch still has an abiding distaste for certain external repositories like bmpx that have been known to break things badly
<crimsun> ajmitch loves that mono bit.
<ajmitch> please don't bring that up
<ajmitch> I may have a traumatic flashback
<Fujitsu> Did I hear mono mentioned near 3rd-party repositories?
<xopher> Well Im guessing that's one reason why we're trying to get more integrated into ubuntu
<xopher> Hobbsee, what breakage are you referring to?
<Hobbsee> xopher: dapper people with beryl upgrading to edgy, in particular
<Fujitsu> Yay, fireworks!
<xopher> Hobbsee, oh, you're talking about beryl
<ajmitch> for bmpx, the rather broken dbus backport in the repository
<xopher> ok
<Hobbsee> xopher: actually, i'm talking about all third party repos that break things, but that was what i was thinking of
<ajmitch> which I complained about a couple of times, and saw people running into it a number of times
<xopher> Ok, now, just to get my facts right. There in no chance I could get a new package into edgy anymore, correct? Not even to backports?
<xopher> So what I should be aiming at is feisty?
<Hobbsee> yes
<ajmitch> aim for feisty
<Fujitsu> And that's NOT an excuse to backport more crack to Edgy in third-party repos.
<Hobbsee> ugh, yes
<xopher> Fujitsu, so what you're saying is that I shouldn't be maintaining a bmpx-repo for edgy? That I should take away the possibility of trying out software that otherwise would only be available from source?
<ajmitch> xopher: if you're going to be breaking other packages (as the bmpx repository has been infamous for), then no
<Fujitsu> xopher: As ajmitch says, if it affects other packages, you should definitely not do it.
<ajmitch> bmpx by itself wasn't the problem
<ajmitch> breaking dbus for many people was
<xopher> Ok, well it doesnt effect other packages anymore. That was on dapper. Edgy is left intact
<xopher> It may have caused breakage because of the huge amount of external dependencies it had, which dapper doesnt have by default
<xopher> This conversation dies kind of rapidly dont you think?
<xopher> s/dies/died
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> seems to have, yes
<Hobbsee> xopher: i think youv'e given ajmitch nightmares now
<xopher> Does that mean he won't forget me and stand by me at the CCmeeting? ;) heh
<xopher> (probably he'll just smite me)
<ajmitch> I didn't plan to anyway, since I haven't been working with you at all
<xopher> Point taken
<ajmitch> I don't support people who I haven't worked with directly, even if they've been doing plenty of good work
<ajmitch> though that's more for TB
<ajmitch> when the quality of packaging matters more
<xopher> Yeah. Now, the person(s) who would speak for me, does it matter if they aren't conneted with ubuntu themselves?
<ajmitch> you could try, but the CC wants contributions to the ubuntu community
<xopher> Well that's what Im trying to do isnt it? ;)
<xopher> Now, I asked about irc-activity earlier, Ive been helping out people in #ubuntu-xgl quite a lot, is that a merit, or just something that's expected from everyone?
<Hobbsee> xopher: it is counted, you tend to need to have people there to vouch for your IRC activity, though
<xopher> Well naturally
<deadchip> Hobbsee: are you available right now?
<deadchip> Hobbsee: i believe you just talked to xopher. I'm the BMP upstream maintainer (and main developer)
<Hobbsee> deadchip: heya
<deadchip> Hobbsee: i'd just like to know first-hand why you believe BMPx will "break" things
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: should be too, i expect
<Hobbsee> deadchip: did you or did you not backport DBUS?
<deadchip> from all i can see, you either include the package, and then it's (that's not meant to be pushing off anything, just factually), and then you care for whether it works within Ubuntu wrt dependencies
<deadchip> or you see that it won't work out and include it
<Fujitsu> deadchip: The repository containing BMPx had a backport of DBUS, which exploded things.
<deadchip> but i can't see how you can possibly claim the app will "break" things
<deadchip> Hobbsee: i think this does not have any point does it?
<deadchip> Hobbsee: those were inofficial packages
<deadchip> once you include it yourself in Ubuntu, people will be clearly using Ubuntu dbus packages
<Hobbsee> did they break people's dist-upgrades?
<ajmitch> deadchip: no, it doesn't - the fact remains that you included broken packages, and we had to deal with the mess
<Fujitsu> deadchip: The fact that they are unofficial exacerbates the point.
<Hobbsee> deadchip: if they dont break other stuff, then they're more fine - but the fact that packages YOU are distributing ARE breaking things for your users - perhaps you need to think twice about it.
<deadchip> Hobbsee: sorry i'm not going on that topic; even if they were breaking people's dist-upgrades, then what does this have _anything_ to do with if you'd include it into the main distribution?
<deadchip> soryr but this looks like you're fishing for justifications
<Hobbsee> nothing at all
<deadchip> because you're just "scared" about the app and that's it
<Hobbsee> i'm asking why you're including it, if it's breaking dist-upgrades for your users
<deadchip> btw i'm not pushing here
<deadchip> i just want to know why you insist this will break anything
<Hobbsee> i've never even used the app.  i just know of the breakage
<ajmitch> deadchip: that is the stupidest thing I've heard for awhile
<ajmitch> saying that we're "scared" of it
<deadchip> ok then, what _is_ the reason?
<ajmitch> the thing we have issues with are the broken dbus & other packages that were left up there for months, after complaints about them
<deadchip> you're taking inofficial repositories which are not endorsed by us as a reason for possible inclusion of the package into Unbuntu in the future which would aside from itself solely depend on Ubuntu packages
<ajmitch> I don't care one bit about bmpx itself
<deadchip> that sounds like pretty much nonsense for me
<ajmitch> deadchip: they were endorsed enough to be on your website, iirc
<deadchip> they were not "endorsed"
<deadchip> they were just listed there
<ajmitch> ie endorsed
<deadchip> how does that mean endorsed?
<StevenK> deadchip: Enabling a repository will still have apt/aptitude upgrading a package if it notices a newer version.
<StevenK> Hence the pain of dbus.
<deadchip> good lord
<ajmitch> you list it, you take responsibility
<deadchip> allright so, let's say there were negative sideeffects because of our previous repositories
<deadchip> and let's say we endorsed them (let's say..)
<ajmitch> deadchip: note that none of this discussion has to do with inclusion of bmpx in universe
<deadchip> then even if this both is true (which the former might be)
<deadchip> then wouldn't _inclusion_ of it into Ubuntu proper do anything but _alleviate_ the problematic situation ?
<deadchip> beacuse people wouldn't have to resort to 3rd party repositories ?
<deadchip> note that i'm not pushing here but..
<Hobbsee> including it into universe would be a better solution, yes
<deadchip> if you would include it, then people would not install it from other repos
<ajmitch> deadchip: I'll repeat again, we're *not* arguing against inclusion into ubuntu
<deadchip> and if you don't you'll still be getting broken system reports
<ajmitch> you seem to have misunderstood what we're trying to say
<deadchip> because people _will_ continue to install it from 3rd party repos
<deadchip> as it's a popular app and people like it
<deadchip> so no matter how broken the repos, the people like the app
* ajmitch wishes we could backlist some repositories
<deadchip> the best way to alleviate this is to include it proper
* StevenK hands ajmitch an 'l'
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I think I'd prefer a whitelist.
<deadchip> if one of our guys stops making a repository, then someone else will
<Fujitsu> deadchip: This is beside the point at this time.
<ajmitch> StevenK: sorry getting late, I'm getting annoyed with people who don't read
<deadchip> and if that guy stops, then someone else again will
<deadchip> Fujitsu: no it's not
<deadchip> Fujitsu: my bottom line is: you're complaining about broken systems because of our repository
<deadchip> or rather you're complaining about complaints
<Fujitsu> Yes, and rightly so.
<deadchip> now the point is
<deadchip> Fujitsu: yeah
<deadchip> i don't even deny it
<deadchip> but
<deadchip> if we stop making a repository
<deadchip> then someone else will
<deadchip> and if he stops, then someone _else_ will _again_
<deadchip> because people _like_ the app
<deadchip> (just AAMOF)
<Fujitsu> There's always the option of making a, you know... Not broken repository?
<deadchip> and there will be continued broken systems
<deadchip> and you will be getting continued reports about such systems
<deadchip> because not everyone knows how to make a proper repository that fits in with the distribution
<deadchip> the only _sane_ way to help this out is to include it properly into Ubuntu itself
<StevenK> Only if they put something up that breaks.
<deadchip> all past things aside (not that they don't matter), but this ^ is the only sane solution for the future
<deadchip> StevenK: look you're treating me right now as you do
<deadchip> and i'll tell you that if anyone from Ubuntu comes to mea
<deadchip> me*
<deadchip> (sorry system update running)
<deadchip> asking us to remove our repository or "kindly endorsing us to remove it because it breaks ubuntu"
<deadchip> then i'll just tell you all the same thing again: the best solution is to integrate it into the distribution itself
<deadchip> i can't and won't stop people from making repositories
<deadchip> i can as well stop downstream people from making downstream packages
<deadchip> or "forbid" them to do so
<StevenK> Can they do so and not include a broken dbus?
<deadchip> StevenK: what do you really want me to say ?
<deadchip> you want me to admit something
<Fujitsu> Exactly what StevenK said. The issue is the repositories being broken, not the repositories themselves.
<deadchip> but seirously that's not what i'm here for
<deadchip> what you're saying is like
<deadchip> i don't know, there is no good example
<Fujitsu> If you create a repository which doesn't break things, other people won't have cause to create broken ones either.
<deadchip> the situation itself is the best example
<deadchip> Fujitsu: _we_ didn't _create_ it
<deadchip> how often do i have to say it?
<deadchip> maybe 5 more times
<deadchip> someone who uses BMP created it and we hosted it on our server
<Fujitsu> You should have requested that the author fix it, or not hosted it.
<deadchip> not that anyone of the BMP developers knows a thing about Ubuntu
<deadchip> (and hence we couldn't tell if it will break things or not)
<Fujitsu> I believe complaints were made.
<Hobbsee> perhaps you need to discuss with that person proper procedures and responsibilities?
<deadchip> Fujitsu: fix it if we knew it's broken
<deadchip> i believe not
<deadchip> perhaps in here but not to us
<Hobbsee> deadchip: right, so you didnt make these ubuntu packages - you're the upstream maintainer?
<deadchip> allright this makes no sense
<ajmitch> deadchip: the person who made the repository, it was nexu, right?
<deadchip> guys figure the rest out yourself
<deadchip> the discussion is EOF for me now
<deadchip> you are sitting on a dead duck or whatever you call this in english
* Fujitsu can say `lalalalala I'm not listening' as well.
<deadchip> if this was included in ubuntu proper in the future there would be no problems
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but i think we're yelling at the wrong guy here
<Hobbsee> deadchip: how can we get it included into ubuntu?  what are the deps?
<deadchip> i can't see how a possible future inclusion has anything to do with what the repositories did in the past
<deadchip> Hobbsee: i believe you can read configure.ac
<ajmitch> deadchip: "we won't fix the breakage until you include our software" isn't really the best means of working together
<Fujitsu> deadchip: There would be good reasons for it not being included yet, I'm sure.
<deadchip> i'm not _asking_ for inclusion even, just _by the way_
<deadchip> i am not particularily _interested_ into inclusion either
<Hobbsee> deadchip: basically, you're saying "we want this into ubuntu", and we're saying "your packages are causing breakage" or what?
<deadchip> do it, or don't, like you want
<deadchip> all i wanted to know is why you think it will "break things" _ONCE_ it is _IN_ Ubuntu itself
<Fujitsu> deadchip: You were saying `include it or we'll continue to break your systems,' basically.
<Hobbsee> deadchip: it likely wont.
<deadchip> Hobbsee: what i'm saying is "i want to know why you think the app will break things once it's in Ubuntu itself"
<Hobbsee> deadchip: in current situation, it does
<deadchip> Hobbsee: good so what is the point ?
<Hobbsee> deadchip: i dont think it will - i dont think it will be able to
<deadchip> having a bad day and ride on things past?
<xopher> Fujitsu, '(Fujitsu) There's always the option of making a, you know... Not broken repository?' The current repository is not broken. The broken repo you are talking about was for dapper. Its obsolete and inactive now.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure.  but i think we should harrass the guy who backported dbus, and made teh ubuntu packages
<deadchip> Hobbsee: and what will you have from thata?
<deadchip> that*
<deadchip> personal satisfaction ?
<Fujitsu> Unless inactive means no longer accessible, it's still broken.
<deadchip> you harass that guy and then another one makes another broken repo
<deadchip> Hobbsee: don't you see that it is pointless to bang on broken repos because this is incontrollable by you ?
<deadchip> someone will make eventually another "broken repo"
<deadchip> it is pointless
<deadchip> right
* deadchip deletes the repository
<Hobbsee> deadchip: that is true.   hopefully the person could be educated on why a repo is bad.
<deadchip> if that makes you any happier, i'm glade to
<deadchip> glad to*
<deadchip> Hobbsee: oh i see this is a mission of education
<deadchip> not of providing applications and an OS to users
<xopher> Fujitsu, not accessible
<deadchip> right...
<Fujitsu> xopher: Good. But it was accessible for some time, and caused a lot of breakage.
<deadchip> FWIW i don't care if you include BMPx into Ubuntu or not because there are enough people who like the app and will be wanting to install it one way or another anyway
<deadchip> the _best_ thing you can do
<xopher> Well I cant say anything about that, because I wasnt in the picture back then
<Hobbsee> is to stick it in ubuntu
<deadchip> (you're basically, just fwiw, denying the popularity of the app)
<deadchip> the best thing you can do is to stick it into ubuntu
<deadchip> right
<deadchip> or you will get complaints all over and over again
<Hobbsee> not at all.  however, my next question is "how do we get this into ubuntu"
<deadchip> this is not a "threat" or sth
<deadchip> it's just a matter of fact because as long as you don't
<deadchip> people will be making 3rd party repos
<deadchip> and you can spend your time either on going on a mission of education
<deadchip> and tell them how to fix their broken repos
<ajmitch> deadchip: that's the problem with any piece of software
<StevenK> deadchip: At which point people will turn around and say "Put the latest SVN HEAD of BMPx into this released version of Ubuntu because I want it." ?
<deadchip> or just simply include it yourself (like 20 other distros do)
<xopher> Hobbsee, well Im working on that as we speak, already uploaded to revu as I stated before, now its up to MOTUs to take a look at it
<deadchip> and be sane with the situation
<Hobbsee> xopher: got a link to it?  i'm sure Fujitsu will take a look
<ajmitch> deadchip: we always try & encourage people to get the software in
<xopher> sec
<deadchip> ok and i thought Gentoo downstream was unreasonable
* Fujitsu gets out something, and takes Hobbsee.
<xopher> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3460
<deadchip> lol
<Fujitsu> *attacks Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> haha
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: a small slip...
<deadchip> you've guys seriously had it
<deadchip> hey umm
<deadchip> anyone of you perhaps want to point out something bad about our website ?
<StevenK> I note bmpx is in Debian, which means it will get pulled across automatically.
<Fujitsu> deadchip: Gentoo /downstream/? Gentoo is as far upstream as it can go.
<Fujitsu> Woops.
<deadchip> maybe my email address is wrongly spelled ?
<Fujitsu> I'm obviously tired.
<deadchip> Fujitsu: not really
<ajmitch> deadchip: maybe I've tried talking in the past to the person who made the repository, who ignored the complaint?
<deadchip> Fujitsu: the users are in the belief of using upstream packages
<deadchip> aka "just building from source"
<deadchip> while they have packages like anyone else just built right in front  of their eyes
<deadchip> that's a problem that _we_ have
<deadchip> (in turn)
<ajmitch> StevenK: source already is in universe
<deadchip> people from gentoo coming in saying "i have a problem", "did you compile it from source?", "yeah.", "how?", "using an svn ebuild"
<ajmitch> xopher: ^^
<ajmitch> xopher: you may be interested in http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/bmpx.html
<deadchip> ajmitch: how would i know
<deadchip> ajmitch: (i mean about you talking to someone)
<deadchip> ajmitch: fwiw nexu is not even part of the bmp developer "team" or "project" or whatever you'd call it
<deadchip> all we did was to provide server space
<StevenK> ajmitch: i386 is probably sitting in binary NEW as we speak.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: way cool.  deadchip so that will just sync across, and it'll be in ubuntu in a week or so
<deadchip> and as no one of the core devs runs Ubuntu, we couldn't see there was anything wrong with the repository
<Hobbsee> hopefully
<StevenK> Hobbsee: ^
<Hobbsee> deadchip: we wont be able to include it into edgy, but it'll be in feisty, and hopefully we'll never have to have this discussion again :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: has it already been synced?  yay
<deadchip> Hobbsee: yeah that would be (lol) good :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yup.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Keybuk was a busy boy, and in turn has just smashed the buildds. :-)
<deadchip> i mean, in a positive sense of not needing to discuss this anymore
<deadchip> wrt to the patch, it's already fixed in 0.34.
<deadchip> 0.34.x*
* Fujitsu might just remember seeing 600 or so uploads from Keybuk.
<Fujitsu> (where uploads == syncs)
<deadchip> i just have to get to know how to tell them that it's fixed
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ahhh :)
<Hobbsee> deadchip: yeah
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: holy cow.  that's a lot
<deadchip> Thierry knows but Debian doesn't
<StevenK> I suspect it was a neat script that he fired off.
<StevenK> Hopefully the same script will fix binary NEW. :-P
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I presume so, seems to have imported an enormous amount of yummy new stuff :)
<StevenK> Indeed. :-)
<zul> hey
<Hobbsee> hey zul!
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hi
<StevenK> ajmitch: Shouldn't you be sleeping?
<ajmitch> yes
* StevenK notes he should too.
* Hobbsee should, three
<zul> me too
<zul> oh wait
<zul> ...i just got to work
<ajmitch> best time for it
<Hobbsee> hehe
<fgiraldeau> Hi
<fgiraldeau> I would like to upload my package to REVU
<zul> do you have a gpg key?
<fgiraldeau> imbrandon was not able to sync keys yesterday
<fgiraldeau> zul : shure : https://launchpad.net/people/francis-giraldeau
<fgiraldeau> My source package is signed and ready to upload
<fgiraldeau> I tested it, i corrected lintian errors, I think that it is ready
<zul> i think there is a launchpad team to join but i forget which one
<fgiraldeau> I'm in this team : https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors
<zul> ok then you might have to find a revu admin then like ajmitch
<Hobbsee> he's asleep
<Hobbsee> or should be
* ajmitch should be asleep, but is just syncing the keyring now
<ajmitch> you people should let me sleep
<fgiraldeau> ok right, thanks
<Hobbsee> heh
<fgiraldeau> Well, I understand this too, I could wait too :)
<zul> ajmitch: then you should have shut up  :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: should have descreened
* Hobbsee ntoes that she has work in 7 hours :(
<fgiraldeau> I must go to work, but you will see that package appears in next few hours.
<fgiraldeau> Thanks a lor ajmitch, and please, take care of you
<ajmitch> ah, looks like imbrandon broke the updating
* ajmitch fixes
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> that'd be right
<fgiraldeau> See ya
* imbrandon breaks everything
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 'sudo -u revu1 revu-key update' next time
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: and you can upload to main.  oh dear.
<ajmitch> must be run as the right user
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ahh ok /me ident sudo
<imbrandon> dident*
<imbrandon> hrm
<zul> and you call yourself a sysadmin ;)
<imbrandon> u dunno my passwd on tiber, its random, i use the ssh key
<imbrandon> err I dunno
<ajmitch> sigh :)
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> i think its kind of funny that fedora has been crying out about binary drivers but their directory server requires java 1.4.2 in order to work properly
<imbrandon> there is irony all over in linux, i guess you have to pick your evils
<imbrandon> zul: ^
<zul> yeah but its still funny..
<imbrandon> oh yea, no doubt
<bddebian> Heya gang
<giskard> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello giskard, imbrandon
<zul> gah where is Hobbsee's big pointy sitck of death when you need it..
<fgiraldeau> Does the keys has been sync? I'm having trouble to upload yet.
<ajmitch> fgiraldeau: yes, it has been synced
<ajmitch> make sure you upload source-only packages to revu (not to ubuntu)
<fgiraldeau> I got this message : Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<fgiraldeau> ltsp-loadbalancer (1.2.0-3) feisty; urgency=low
<ajmitch> you probably uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> fgiraldeau: did you run "dput revu blah.dsc" ?
<fgiraldeau> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> no, thats not revu
<fgiraldeau> well, I tried to upload to the REAL server!
<imbrandon> erm exactly, and it wont let you
<imbrandon> not untill you become a MOTU or core-dev
<imbrandon> you can only upload to revu
<fgiraldeau> God, that's not what I wanted... Ok, I will upload to revu.
<fgiraldeau> Thanks again
<fgiraldeau> I did not configured dput to use revu host by default, that's why.
<fgiraldeau> ltsp-loadbalancer package is now uploaded
<psusi> any motus feel like sponsoring an upload?
<zul> what is it?
<psusi> I have fixed the defrag package
<imbrandon> wow linux has a defrag package ?
<zul> is it in universe or main?
<psusi> universe
<psusi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defrag/+bug/6546
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6546 in defrag "Failed to build on amd64" [Medium,Needs info] 
<imbrandon> psusi: normaly you would attach a debdiff to the bug it fixes in LP and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors ( but in this case you already have our attn )
<psusi> imbrandon: yea... it's been around for like 15 years
<psusi> imbrandon: ok.. .debdiff is attached
<psusi> I will subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<psusi> or not ;)
<psusi> if someone here wants to take a look at the debdiff and upload
<imbrandon> psusi: looking it over now
<imbrandon> psusi: hrm its versioned wrong and targeted at the wrong distro, i'll fix that and upload
<imbrandon> psusi: e.g it should have been "defrag (0.73pjm1-8ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low"
<imbrandon> psusi: uploaded, also left you a note on the bug comments
* imbrandon is away, lunch time
<psusi> ohh, I thought version numbers started with 0
<psusi> cool, thanks
<imbrandon> depends on the part of the version number, but the ubuntu revisions normaly start with 1
<psusi> I see
<imbrandon> ( and target the development version e.g. feisty , not unstable ) , but other than that looks sound
<psusi> does the target actually do anything?
<imbrandon> yes
<psusi> it was unstable because it was synced from debian.... and since it seemed to build fine on edgy I didn't think I needed to change it
<imbrandon> if you look at the pool in the archive, all ubuntu ( and debian ) debs are kept in the same pool for all versions
<psusi> ohh
<imbrandon> yes it will build , but that dosent make it correct
<imbrandon> :)
<psusi> so why are the packages that are auto synced from debian left as unstable?
<imbrandon> thus the target is needed to be set so apt knows what is what
<imbrandon> because they are not rebuilt, they are imported
<imbrandon> if i upload a targeted version for unstable to ubuntu it would be rejected becouse soyuz wqould choke on it as a unknown dist
<imbrandon> anyhow not a huge mistake, just wanted to let you know for future ref
<Adri2000> imbrandon: huh? synced packages are not rebuilt in an ubuntu chroot?
<imbrandon> brb , food is ready
<psusi> I see
<imbrandon> Adri2000: not in the same way as uploaded ones
<Adri2000> yes, ok
<imbrandon> and actualy i'm not sure if they arent just binary imported, would probably have to ask a ftp admin
<imbrandon> but i know they arent handled the same and uploads choke if they are not targeted correctly , in ubuntu or debian
<psusi> hrm... if they are that might explain https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/24692
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24692 in Ubuntu "Amd64 ubuntu build hogs memory due to badly built libs" [Medium,Needs info] 
<slytherin> Is this the right place to ask pbuilder questions?
<imbrandon> slytherin: yes
<psusi> some libs on amd64 are built badly and hog mem... let me investigate of they were imported from debian vs. being ubuntu uploads
<imbrandon> psusi: possibly, but i doubt it, as amd64 by nature uses much more ram for its binarys , its probably just badly ported 32bit code
<slytherin> imbrandon: Can I share cache between apt and pbuilder? Is it ok if I change pbuilder cache directory to point to apt cache directory?
<imbrandon> compiled for 64bit
<imbrandon> slytherin: now that i do not know, but i would assume so, worst case is it wont work and you have to unpoint it
<psusi> imbrandon: no no... the libs are built wrong... they have a 1 MB alignment requirement in the headers
<psusi> so even if the lib is only 30 kb, it still uses up a 1 meg chunk of memory
<slytherin> imbrandon: I will try. I have one more question.
<imbrandon> as i said a bad port
<psusi> just some silly linker setting when they were built
<slytherin> imbrandon: I have created a package from a svn sync and installed. Now I want to create another package whose build depends on first package. But since first package is not in repositories listing, how would pbuilder know its existence.
<imbrandon> it wont unless you login to the pbuilder and install it ( access via bindmount is the easy way )
<imbrandon> pbuilder is its own chroot , it knows nothing about what you have installed localy
<imbrandon> ok REALLY food time, if you still need help when i get done eating slytherin  i'll help you more
<psusi> yea, you either have to copy the file to the pbuilder cache, login, and install it, or set up your own repository and add it as a source for the pbuilder environment
<slytherin> imbrandon: No problem. I am here
<Adri2000> I was looking at the merges to do and a package just need a sync, I will request it but I believe a motu have to check?
<Adri2000> the package is packagesearch, the only ubuntu change was two dependencies added, debian added them to, and the package builds fine in a feisty pbuilder
<Adri2000> can I request the sync? :)
<PriceChild> Hey there... really easy question from a first timer
<PriceChild> I'm building a package from someone else's source
<Adri2000> eh, I have spoken too quickly, a B-D is missing...
<PriceChild> do i keep their name as the "maintainer"?
<PriceChild> and "just" put my name in the copyright as packager?
<giskard> put your name in the changelog, nothing else. (ihmo)
<Adri2000> all the packages from debian have not been synced yet?
<PriceChild> giskard: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html suggests otherwise?
<PriceChild> There's already a debian changelog there with everything already in... should i add a new entry at the top of the changelog to add me as a maintainer and it as a feisty package etc.
<PriceChild> or just modify the previous line?
<giskard> add a new entry
<imbrandon> PriceChild: ok, whoa , back up here, exactly what are you doing ?
<PriceChild> he he :)
<PriceChild> I'm trying to package xvidcap....
<imbrandon> i thought you said there is a chagelog etc, this sugests its packaged already, are you then updating that package?
<PriceChild> here's where confusion begins :)
<PriceChild> There's no official debian package
<PriceChild> however
<PriceChild> on sourceforge there is a deb
<PriceChild> and a tar.gz
<imbrandon> that dosent matter, are you updateing the deb?
<PriceChild> I decided it was best to start from scratch - correct me if wrong?
<imbrandon> wrong
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> I just wasn't sure whether it was the best idea to start using other debs etc.
<imbrandon> its always best to use whats already there , if it needs fixing , fix it, then send a patch to them showing what you fix'ed BUT ok ......
<imbrandon> here is the deal, lets get you off on the right foot
<PriceChild> i'm all ears :)
<imbrandon> forget what you have already done for a moment ....... dont throw it away , it might be usefull, just bear with me
<imbrandon> ok
<PriceChild> ok
<imbrandon> now articulate what you wish to happen ultimately as the goal
<PriceChild> I want to get a package of xvidcap into the repos
<imbrandon> ok good, and its NOT in debian atm correct ?
<PriceChild> No
<PriceChild> its stuck in limbo
<PriceChild> for about 2 years
<imbrandon> ok great, now you said there is a deb ( i assume source to that deb also)  on sf.net
<PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=81535 - there you go :)
<imbrandon> and iots a free lic , like gpl etc
<imbrandon> its*
<imbrandon> wait wait , hehe i'm just getting the facts, you still have a bit of work to do
<imbrandon> :)
<PriceChild> yeah GPL
<PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xvidcap/ says its gpl
<imbrandon> ok great, now next thing is do you have a pbuilder env setup?
<PriceChild> he he no not yet....
<PriceChild> I'd been following the ubuntu wiki step by step with making a new package
<imbrandon> ok here is what you have to do from here in simplified steps, if you need help with a particualr step as you get to them ask, but here is an overview of "the right way"
<imbrandon> right but the package is already made so its a bit diffrent
<imbrandon> soooo what you need to do now is
<imbrandon> grab the deb src from sf.net just how they have it , test build it ( preferably with pbuilder , a howto set that up on the wiki ) then ....
<imbrandon> if there are minor changes that need to be made make them and add a changelog entry to reflect that, if not just leave it as is
<imbrandon> and upload to REVU ( url in the topic )
<imbrandon> from there a ubuntu developer such as those in this chan will revu it and upload to the main archives
<PriceChild> Ok... but otherwise if it works, then i don't need to touch it?
<imbrandon> correct
<nixternal> imbrandon: is it safe to look through m.k.c/k/ and grab a kde app or two for a merge (i.e., don't want to step on someones toes if it is already in their todo list)
<PriceChild> great thanks :)
<imbrandon> nixternal: merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ( it has the names of who's merges they are to do, best thing is to pick one and poke the person who's it is and ask , most are more than happy to let you do some of their merges )
<secretlondon> Could someone help me unravel the gaphor/python ftbfs bug?
<imbrandon> secretlondon: i'm not a python expert but i can try to help if you have an error
<secretlondon> it's bug #66452 - it may be fixed by syncing from debian as we seemed to have missed it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66452 in gaphor "Dependancy problems - not synced from Debian?" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66452
<secretlondon> it's a horrible dependency mess
<PriceChild> imbrandon: I'm confused as to how pbuilder works... Its installing as we speak but the wiki gives on indication of how to use it :)
<PriceChild> ah wait...
<imbrandon> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<PriceChild> yeah i'm on that page
<PriceChild> i think i get it...
<PriceChild> bear with me :)
<imbrandon> PriceChild: tbh its not something you will learn in 5 minutes, read the wiki, try it a bit etc etc etc :)
<imbrandon> if you run into problems with specifics we can help
<imbrandon> secretlondon: one sec
<PriceChild> he he thanks for helping :) much appreciated
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> secretlondon: it looks like the merge never got done, its not a sync, it is a merge because there is a ubuntu delta to check
<imbrandon> secretlondon: i'll see if i can figure out why the merge wasent done
<secretlondon> the diff just looks like desktop and icon
<imbrandon> most likely , but when there are ubuntu changes it dosent autosync
<imbrandon> it has to be checked by hand, and can be easily overlooked
<secretlondon> debian's web access to changelogs seems to be broken atm
<secretlondon> imbrandon: thanks. we're getting quite a few dupes so it'd be great to fix
<imbrandon> secretlondon: sure think, it looks like all changes were adpoted upstream, i'll check a little closer to be sure and file a sync req, should be done by early next week as long as everything go's smooth
<imbrandon> thing*
<secretlondon> thanks!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: !!
<LaserJock> imbrandon!!
<zul> hey LaserJock
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i need help !!!! , i'm not a good teacher and we have some new hopefulls arround :)
<imbrandon> hehehe
<secretlondon> we need some sort of ubuntu training programme
<LaserJock> we do
<imbrandon> secretlondon: well we sorta have one, just not the manpower to keep it uptodate
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> it's just not exactly going full speed ahead right now
<secretlondon> imbrandon: mentors?
<LaserJock> we have MOTU Mentors and MOTU School
<imbrandon> mentors and MOTU-school
<secretlondon> everyone needs help, but nothing will get done if all the motu mentor?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> ok, so who all needs some training?
<imbrandon> PriceChild: i think is looking for some LaserJock , i pointed him in the general direction, but i'm sure he would like lots more
<imbrandon> LaserJock: nixternal is picking up the pace with merges too this cycle ( today and yesterday )
<imbrandon> and there was one or two others in and out today
<imbrandon> i forget the names
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> well, we have 5 decent sessions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School for people to read
<imbrandon> and whom knows if secretlondon would like to get her feet wet lol
<imbrandon> err his, err umm their
<imbrandon> :)
<secretlondon> imbrandon: I will do at some point - I've said so on my launchpad page
<secretlondon> her
<secretlondon> but their is fine
<imbrandon> i thought so , just wasent 100% lol
<secretlondon> :)
<secretlondon> i think one thing will be getting people to read and practice
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah.... you never know
<imbrandon> anyhow yea, maybe her too LaserJock :), point is i think we need a nother general MOTU hoto get started session soonish, i wouldent mind helping with it but i'm not the greatest teacher
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> well i think i've talked to secretlondon at one point or another and it came up, thats why it was in the back of my mind, but no matter, i dont care if he/she is purple and from mars
<imbrandon> :)
<secretlondon> :P
<nixternal> imbrandon: i did that once to a lady when i was a teenager moons ago working at sears...i said how can i help you sir, and it was my first day (my boss and everyone had to hide because they were crying)
<imbrandon> haha
<nixternal> i think you are a little safer on irc ;p
<LaserJock> well, last time I did a MOTU session it was 2 2hr sessions
<imbrandon> well i'm getting used to women being smarter than me , seele at UDS , elkbuntu, hobbsee and many more seem to be creeping in, thats a good thing IMHO :)
<LaserJock> if I can shrink it down to 1hr then it'd be easier to teach
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea
<nixternal> ya, i need to concentrate on some MOTU schooling
<secretlondon> hobbsee rocks
<PriceChild> I am here.... just not really around imbrandon... i will check those links thanks :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: im gonna have a knemo merge done here in a few, and tonio isn't around, so if i supply you with the debdiff, you mind looking at it?
<PriceChild> i love hobbsee )
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ye i think a general session on "where to start" would be good, as most are well enough off to specialize and ask questions after they get into it a bit
<LaserJock> PriceChild, secretlondon, nixternal : you might be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics
<nixternal> im test buildin' it now
<PriceChild> thanks
<zul> imbrandon: dude its just not women who are smarter than you :)
<imbrandon> zul: hahaha
<LaserJock> zul: hahahaha
<nixternal> obvioulsy you haven't met the sharp pointy stick of doom
<nixternal> LaserJock: i was in that class ;)  already have the main pointers written in my notes section of my printed upg homey ;p
<secretlondon> nixternal: I have, but it was always wielded at other people
<LaserJock> nixternal: what a nerd ;p
<nixternal> if you look through the log, you will see my crying about debuild -S and my gpg key being a moron
<PriceChild> I've got to make a feisty pbuilder environment haven't i....
<nixternal> doh
<LaserJock> yes :-)
<PriceChild> he he
<imbrandon> PriceChild: yes
<nixternal> ok mini-me
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> yes PriceChild
<PriceChild> how do i get rid of the one i just made in a moment of stupidity with "sudo pbuilder create "
<imbrandon> PriceChild: you can just leave it, its not a big deal to have more than one
<imbrandon> i ahve 4 or 5 or 6
<nixternal> i have the multiple setup (which if you follow the wiki page, it will more than likely hose you around a little bit, so i will edit that soon once i am ironed out myself)
<imbrandon> for diffrent os's
<PriceChild> It doesn't take too much space does it?
<imbrandon> PriceChild: last i looked about 200mb a peice for a basic setup
<LaserJock> a pbuilder usually runs 50-100MB packed
<nixternal> sudo rm -rf /var/cache/pbuilder
<nixternal> ;P
<imbrandon> nixternal: NOOOOOOOOO
<LaserJock> 200MB?
<fernando> hehehe
<imbrandon> LaserJock: unpacked
<nixternal> probaby not the right way
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> imbrandon: nerd ;p
<PriceChild> ok removed... starting again :)
<PriceChild> thanks
<imbrandon> nixternal: redneck nerd to you
<LaserJock> the actual pbuilder environment is called base.tgz
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> thats even scarier
<nixternal> imbrandon: i picture deliverance merged with sneakers
<nixternal> my god i just wet myself in fear of that one
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/pkg/knemo_0.4.6-1.debdiff
<imbrandon> k lemme finish this gaphor
<nixternal> roger that
* nixternal heads onto another one
<Laser_away> meeting time :/
<Laser_away> hopefully this will take less then 4 hrs
<Burgwork> Laser_away: meeting?
<Laser_away> 2 2hr meetings back to back
<Laser_away> RL
<imbrandon> wow
<Laser_away> yeah, my life is a series of meetings
<Laser_away> and I'm only a grad student
<nixternal> heh, im in a package right now, and i lost myself
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i hate telephones
<slytherin> imbrandon: ping
<psusi> does anyone know of a stress tool that will randomly create and delete files to excercize a filesystem?
<secretlondon> windows?
* secretlondon apologises for the cheap gag.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> slytherin: pong
<enyc> NOTE: not sure where is the right place for this message...     packages.ubuntu.com appears te be misbehaving!   see  http://packages.ubuntu.com/prboom  then  http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/games/prboom  -- see version numbers!
<PriceChild> Hey imbrandon?
<imbrandon> ?
<PriceChild> just got back
<PriceChild> I installed the xvidcap deb from the SF... and it works flawlessely
<PriceChild> (i can't spell or package ;) )
<imbrandon> heh, ok , grab the source for that deb, and build it in pbuilder
<imbrandon> if it builds fine then upload it to revu
<PriceChild> Ok :)
<PriceChild> uuu..
<PriceChild> one little thing
<imbrandon> ?
<PriceChild> wait no doesn't matter
<PriceChild> answered my own question :)
<slytherin> imbrandon: You were to help me with pbuilder
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> slytherin: sure what do you need ?
<PriceChild> now to learn how to use pbuilder! :)
<PriceChild> cya
<slytherin> imbrandon: We discussed it just before you went out for food. How to install a package in pbuilder env.
<imbrandon> ahh right, ok you need to copy the deb to say your home dir then " pbuilder login --save-after-login --bindmount /home/username "
<imbrandon> then you can dpkg -i the deb as normal, exit the pbuilder
<imbrandon> and it will be installed in your pbuilder then
<slytherin> imbrandon: let me try
<PriceChild> imbrandon: am i meant to be changing the changelog at all? Or should i skip this section?
<PriceChild> and control...? its already got the debian folder etc.
<imbrandon> PriceChild: no grab the source for the deb first, e.g. the *.dsc *.diff.gz *.orig.tar.gz and build it with no changes
<imbrandon> like pbuilder build *.dsc
<PriceChild> ah ok yeah...
<PriceChild> problem being sourceforge only has tar.gz
<imbrandon> make sure it builds, you only need to change the chagelog if you change something
<PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=81535
<imbrandon> PriceChild: then you will need to email the author and get the packaging dir
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<PriceChild> he seems to be quite active (latest version yday) so should get back to me soon hopefully :)
<imbrandon> sure, you have a few months untill the first freeze , so no rushes
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> quicker the better
<fowlduck> howdy
<imbrandon> heya fowlduck
<imbrandon> brb afk
<psusi> is there a way to randomize a file instead of sort it into order?
<psusi> like do the reverse of sort
<minghua> psusi: http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/shuffle/
<CarlFK> if someone needs a 64 bit version of libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 - can they just apt-get source and dpkg-buildpackage to make a 64 bit deb?
<minghua> psusi: also see bogosort and random-lines package
<obenbohne> hi Seveas!
<nixternal> imbrandon: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/pkg/kdiff3_0.9.90-4.debdiff
<psusi> heh, thanks minghua but I already managed to come up with a little shell snippit to do it for me ;)
<psusi> god I love bash
<jekil> hi, i am searching a MOTU mentor for security tools packages
<psusi> ls to a temp file, wc to coun the lines, and $RANDOM to pick a random line number, tail and head to extract that line and I've got a random file
<Adri2000> I'm taking a package from debian to replace the package which was created for ubuntu, what should I do with the changelogs?
<enyc> *** somebody please tell me where is the right place to query/speak/emial/post-bug/complain/whatever  about the discrepancies I am seeing on the  http://packages.ubuntu.com/ site at this time ;-)
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: can it be synced?
<LaserJock> enyc: how out of sync is it?
<Admiral_Chicago> can what be synced?
<Admiral_Chicago> i could give it a shot
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: sorry dude, I was meaning Adri2000
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: it's cool
<pygi> vil: hello
<enyc> LaserJock: not sure.. but here is a definite discrepancy:-
<LaserJock> enyc: there often is on packages.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> especially with the dev release
<Adri2000> LaserJock: there are some modifications to do to make it work correctly with ubuntu
<enyc> LaserJock: first see  http://packages.ubuntu.com/prboom  -- notice fiesty 2.4.6-whatnot...  then see  http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/games/prboom  ...  what is going on?
<enyc> LaserJock: i appreciate fiesty universe (not multiverse necessarially) was only synced recently
<LaserJock> enyc: what I'm saying is that packages.ubuntu.com is separate from the actual archives
<LaserJock> enyc: if you really want to know use Launchpad
<enyc> LaserJock: hrrm but BOTH the urls I ma looking at are  packages.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> enyc: sure
<enyc> LaserJock: there is an inconsistency between 2 ursls on  http://packages.ubuntu.com/  ... im confused still
<LaserJock> enyc: I realize that
<enyc> LaserJock: how does this work then?  what technically is going on  for both the URLs I gave?   what databases are involved?
<LaserJock> enyc: what I'm saying is don't rely on packages.ubuntu.com for up-to-date package ingo
<plugwash> enyc what descrepencies?
<LaserJock> enyc: that is not run by canonical or the Ubuntu development community
<enyc> plugwash:  first see  http://packages.ubuntu.com/prboom  -- notice fiesty 2.4.6-whatnot...  then see  http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/games/prboom  ... discrepanncy
<LaserJock> enyc: there is a link at the bottom of the page to report problems
<LaserJock> enyc: this has nothing to do with us
<enyc> LaserJock: I see I see...  launchpad has ubuntu maintenance
<enyc> LaserJock: ok.. hence why I was asking where is the right place to ask/query/report bug  about this ;-)
<LaserJock> enyc: and the answer is no, but also what I'm trying to say is that packages.u.c is not the best place to be looking for package info on the dev release
<enyc> LaserJock: I see I see
<LaserJock> :-)
<Adri2000> LaserJock: the package is debian is still at its first version (initial version), so maybe I could merge the two changelogs, and in the ubuntu1, I could mention "now using the debian package", what do you think?
<Adri2000> s/is debian/in debian/
<LaserJock> Adri2000: if you merge the Debian version keep the Debian changelog
<LaserJock> and add on a new entry describing the changes you made
<Adri2000> yes yes, the changelog will be: ... -0ubuntu1, -1, -1ubuntu1
<geser> Adri2000: afaik you don't need to keep the ubuntu changelog entries if doing a sync with debian (keep them only when doing a merge)
<LaserJock> Adri2000: <debian version>-ubuntu1
<LaserJock> geser: he's doing a merge
<Adri2000> hmm, I won't merge the sources
<LaserJock> Adri2000: how big are the differences?
<LaserJock> it's generally a best practice to start from the Debian source package
<Adri2000> that's what I want to do
<Adri2000> differences: https://patches.ubuntu.com/b/briquolo/briquolo_0.5.5-0ubuntu1.patch
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see anything spectacular
<LaserJock> I think you might be able to just sync that
<Adri2000> the .desktop file doesn't work in ubuntu
<LaserJock> it works in Debian?
<psusi> wow.... 46% noncontiguous filesystem....
<LaserJock> Adri2000: is the .desktop file in the packaging?
<Adri2000> yes and it is installed in /usr/share/games/applications/
<LaserJock> oh yes, I remember something about that
<Adri2000> and it doesn't appear in the menu because the right place is /usr/share/applications/
<LaserJock> ok, so grab the Debian source and fix the install path :-)
<Adri2000> and what about the changelog? :p
<LaserJock> use the debian changelog
<LaserJock> and add your's to the top
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Adri2000> and so no trace of the old ubuntu package in the changelog? :/
<LaserJock> right
<Adri2000> it will look like the package is in ubuntu since feisty but it's wrong
<LaserJock> just put something like "replacing old Ubuntu package"
<Adri2000> ok
<LaserJock> just so people know what's going on
<Adri2000> right :)
<Adri2000> Sp4rKy: hi :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I guess it could go both ways :/
<psusi> hrm... how can you background one task of a pipeline but still have it die with the rest of the pipeline when you ctrl-c?
<Sp4rKy> o/ Adri2000 :)
<psusi> I tried grouping it with () bug that leaves the background task running and doesn't even list it in jobs
<psusi> s/bug/but
<rmjb> hello, someone reviewed my package on REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3446 and advised I split out the libraries... I can't remember seeing that mentioned in the packaging guide, is there another guide that shows how this can be done?
<LaserJock> rmjb: not particularly
<LaserJock> rmjb: are you using debhelper?
<rmjb> cdbs for that one
<psusi> take a look at another package that splits into multiple binary targets for an example
<psusi> like e2fsprogs
<LaserJock> rmjb: basically it involves adding more binary sections to debian/control
<psusi> it splits into like 3 applications packages, a lib package, a udeb
<LaserJock> and some modifications to say which files should go with which binary package
<psusi> LaserJock: and modifying the rules makefile to only copy the correct files into the correct binary target
<rmjb> cool, I'll take a look...
<rmjb> generally anything that goes into /usr/lib or the like goes into a lib package?
<Admiral_Chicago> dholbach: can i talk to you for a sec about accessbility
<rmjb> because the comment on revu only mentioned specific libraries where there's much more
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: I'm currently in a meeting
<psusi> rmjb: yea... that way other packages that use those libraries can depend on the library package, rather than the entire thing ( libs and apps )
<Admiral_Chicago> is there a channel i can meet you in later? motu work?
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: can I propose you talk to heno or themuso or write to ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<dholbach> Admiral_Chicago: or drop me a mail?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll email the list
<Admiral_Chicago> thanks
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<rmjb> psusi: thanks
<rmjb> while I have some attention, can a motu take a look at my other package on REVU? and leave comments or advocate? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3449
* psusi is happy he found a sponsor to upload his fixes to the defrag package today
* psusi wonders how long it will take to show up in the archive
<Adri2000> config.{sub,guess} in .diff.gz in a package from debian :/
<Adri2000> contributors missing in debian/copyright and AUTHORS not in debian/docs
<Adri2000> in the same package :-/
<enyc> Laser_away: thankyou for comments earlier... email sent r.e. packages.ubuntu.com which I now know is not hosted by canonical / ubuntu-community etc.
<TheMuso> Admiral_Chicago: Hey there. What are you interested in accessibility wise?
<Admiral_Chicago> TheMuso: i want to be able to use the keyboard completly
<Admiral_Chicago> say i was to unplug the mouse, I want tho OS to be fully fuctional still
<TheMuso> Admiral_Chicago: Ok, come into #ubuntu-accessibility and we can discuss it further.
<ajmitch> morning
<Burgwork> morning ajmitch
<Hobbsee> morning all
<obenbohne> hi Seveas
<giskard> hi Hobbsee  ajmitch
<nixternal> pwnd
<giskard> where i can find a compelete list of REVU packages?
<Hobbsee> er...on REVU?
<giskard> Hobbsee, yes, i need a link
<ajmitch> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Hobbsee> !revu
<ajmitch> too slow
<giskard> im too lazy fo find it by myself ;)
<Hobbsee> seems so
<giskard> ajmitch, :*
<PriceChild> Hey Hobbsee
<PriceChild> imbrandon: hello?
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild!
<PriceChild> I'm getting somewhere...
<PriceChild> imbrandon's been patient in helping me earlier :)
<PriceChild> anyway...
<Hobbsee> yay :)
<bhale> yay Hobbsee
<PriceChild> the standard deb for xvidcap installs fine
<giskard> hello bhale
<PriceChild> so imbrandon got me to get those 3 files we need to submit for revu...
<Hobbsee> hey bhale!
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: :)
<PriceChild> tar.gz dsc and the other one
<PriceChild> They weren't availiable on SF so i PMd the author for help
<Hobbsee> no, they arent.  you create them
<PriceChild> he he.. imbrandon didn't tell me that one ;)
<PriceChild> the author gave me instructions on how to get it from the original source so I'm going to try that now :)
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: I've unpacked the tar.gz and made a copy which I've removed the "debian" folder from
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yep
<PriceChild> not sure how to use diff on this though...
<Hobbsee> ugh, upstream is giving a debian dir?
<PriceChild> diff xvidcap-1.1.4p1/ xvidcap-1.1.4p1.orig/
<PriceChild> didn't do much
<PriceChild> yeah
<Hobbsee> nah, that'd just give you debian/
<Hobbsee> well, should
<PriceChild> Only in xvidcap-1.1.4p1.orig/: debian
<Hobbsee> yep
<PriceChild> then a few "Common subdirectories: "
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<PriceChild> I'll pastebin what the author sent me
<Hobbsee> cool
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ask him to remove it, anyway
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32407/
<PriceChild> remove what?
<Hobbsee> the debian/ dir
<Hobbsee> then you dont have to repackage it
* Hobbsee looks
<PriceChild> ok yeah that's what he said
<PriceChild> then to do a diff between it and the other to gain a diff.gz
<PriceChild> so should i remove the debian, then tar it back up... then do a diff between the two tars?
<PriceChild> (the one without the "debian" being *.orig.tar.gz)
<bhale> no?
<bhale> dpkg-buildpackage does all of this
<bhale> have you read one of the packaging guides
<PriceChild> I have, but not one that applies to this (that i can see)
* PriceChild looks again
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: nope.
<PriceChild> Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ugh, that's annoying
<PriceChild> baptism of fire :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: you've got the untarred .tar.gz, right?
<PriceChild> yup
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: right, retar that, without the debian/ dir in it, and call it packagename_upstreamversionnumber.orig.tar.gz
<PriceChild> Ok yeah
<Hobbsee> where retar is making it a .tar.gz, not just a .tar
<PriceChild> I just made a copy, renamed it then openned it in archive manager and removed the debian folder in there... less hastle... hope that's sufficient?
<Hobbsee> yeah, that works
<PriceChild> gd gd
<PriceChild> now diff?
<Hobbsee> the md5sum on it will be different anyway.  *glares at the maintainer*
<PriceChild> ha ha
<Hobbsee> now you can use the debian/ dir that was provided, and follow http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<PriceChild> ok
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: basically, you want to split packaging and source
<PriceChild> and just not worry about md5sums
<PriceChild> Hobbsee you just confused me compeltely there :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: packaging == debian dir, source == the rest, the stuff you download off the website
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: else you could just be adding random bits into the source, instead of just into the packaging, and i could never verify that what i downloaded off a website was the same as your package, minus debian/
<Hobbsee> if that makes any sense
<PriceChild> that last bit makes sense
<PriceChild> I'm sorry if i'm being really really dense... but cannot understand which bits of the guide apply to what you just tole me
<PriceChild> *told
<Hobbsee> it's fine
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, right
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: you want the stuff under http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-chap.html
<Hobbsee> i'd probably do it with debhelper
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> thanks :)
<Hobbsee> not a problem
<PriceChild> ok... i do dh_make inside the original tar?
<PriceChild> or the "orig" one that i removed debian from?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: the latter.  you shouldnt actually have to, depending on how good the current debian dir is.
<Hobbsee> where's the link to it?
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<PriceChild> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=81535&package_id=83441
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> it appears that sourceforge has broken
<PriceChild> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/xvidcap/xvidcap-1.1.4p1.tar.gz?modtime=1163715043&big_mirror=0
<PriceChild> does that work?
<PriceChild> that download link still work
<PriceChild> s
<PriceChild> use it while its there! :)
<Hobbsee> oh, so it does
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  looks reasonable
<Hobbsee> few things need fixing on it
<giskard> siretart, ajmitch http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi
<PriceChild> like the "unstable" > "feisty" and things?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: run dch -i inside the source directory, and do that bit
<Hobbsee> yeah, you need another changelog entry
<PriceChild> ok....
<Hobbsee> change the debhelper dep to version >5
<Hobbsee> compat to 5, not 4
<PriceChild> so you want me to dch -i on a clean source?
<PriceChild> including debian?
<Hobbsee> you've got it untarred, right?
<PriceChild> yeah
<PriceChild> but shall i untar it again and keep the debian folder?
<Hobbsee> then you want to add the debian dir, and fix the debian dir, so it'll pass quality control
<PriceChild> the original author's debian?
<Hobbsee> er...i guess you could.
* Hobbsee is confused now
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee> bhale: help :P
<PriceChild> he he
<Hobbsee> you want to keep it, and use it, but you *dont* want it in the orig.tar.gz
<PriceChild> ok
<Hobbsee> and that's a *really* weird way to do the patching
<plugwash> Hobbsee why don't you wan't it in the orig.tar.gz?
* PriceChild copys and removes debian from orig.tar.gz then runs dch -i inside the very original's untarred folder
<Hobbsee> plugwash: because it involves changing the original tarball, as you have to make changes to upload it.  see http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html for why *that's* bad
<PriceChild> Ok so i need to change "unstable" to "feisty" ?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: having fun? :-)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: the -i part of dch will increment it to give you a new changelog entry.  yes you do
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh.  it's better than me having to do it myself :P
<PriceChild> what shall i put as the summary?
<PriceChild> next to the *
<Hobbsee> (this isnt in debian already, is it?)
<PriceChild> "Patched for Ubuntu"?
<PriceChild> Nope :)
<PriceChild> don't worry
<Hobbsee> oh good
<PriceChild> someone tried to get it in 2 years ago and it got stuck in limbo
<Hobbsee> Packaged for Ubuntu
<PriceChild> they won't touch it
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> marilliat stuff, yeah
<PriceChild> cuz ffmpeg is inside it
<Hobbsee> (the guy who did the debian/ folder)
<Hobbsee> yep
<LaserJock> ewww
<Hobbsee> hrm.  that might be fun.  but we'll get to that
<PriceChild> eep:           warning: your current directory has been renamed to:
<PriceChild> ../xvidcap-1.1.4p2
<PriceChild> that's not good is it?
<PriceChild> this is p1
<Hobbsee> that's fine
<PriceChild> ok
<Hobbsee> the version should be
<Hobbsee> 1.14p1-0ubuntu1 though
<Hobbsee> (versioning is later in that guide)
<PriceChild> he he yeah
<Hobbsee> hrm....
<Hobbsee> this is weird
<Hobbsee> !info kvpnc edgy
<ubotu> kvpnc: vpn clients frontend for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.5.1-1 (edgy), package size 1374 kB, installed size 3924 kB
<Hobbsee> i dont get it...
* Hobbsee checks LP
<Hobbsee> FOUND IT!
<Hobbsee> found the source of the weirdness.
<PriceChild> ?
<Hobbsee> just something that i was working on
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<PriceChild> so where do i rejoin the guide?
<LaserJock> PriceChild: don't worry, she just likes talking to herself
* PriceChild smiles
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<PriceChild> @lart LaserJock & Hobbsee
<ubuntu-es> PriceChild: Error: "lart" is not a valid command.
<crimsun> pay no attention to LaserJock. Those shifty deities of MOTU cannot be trusted.
<PriceChild> argh :(
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> crimsun: shifty am i?
<PriceChild> go away ubuntu-es... i want Ubugtu :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: do you know how the autosyncer works?  does it go on distro, or on version number?
<Hobbsee> yes, why is ubuntu-es
<Hobbsee> in here...
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b %Ubugtu!*@*]  by Hobbsee
<PriceChild> lol
<Hobbsee> no more Ubugtu
<PriceChild> :O you banned Ubugtu :'(
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b %Ubugtu!*@*]  by Hobbsee
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<Hobbsee> nah...just quieted..
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> anyway not sure where to rejoin this guide
* Hobbsee bans enough people as it is
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, technically it's not auto exactly
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: true.
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: um, not sure
* Hobbsee notes that it's too early in the morning for this
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: but I guess it says, is there an older version in Feisty than in Sid and there is no ubuntuX
<PriceChild> because there should be all the /debian files in there already... shouldn't have to change those should i?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: you'll have to change some of them, as they're out of date
<PriceChild> hmm ok
<ajmitch> dholbach!
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<chillywilly> hi ajmitchie
<dholbach> hey guys
<Hobbsee> dget is cool
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ah right, that's a point
<LaserJock> I want to mix dget and madison-lite together
<LaserJock> so I can do something like dgrab sid plotdrop
<PriceChild> Hobbsee... do i have to add the debhelper to the build depends and things?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: it should already be there
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that'd be nice.  it'd also be nice if madison/madison-lite recognised feisty as a distro
<PriceChild> so it is
<PriceChild> so i need to change "Source: xvidcap" to "Source: xvidcap-debhelper"
<pygi> e
<PriceChild> change "Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 3.3.4), libgtk2.0-dev," to Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4), libgtk2.0-dev,
<PriceChild> is that right Hobbsee/
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: >5, but yeah
<PriceChild> almost :)
<PriceChild> ">5" or ">=5"?
<PriceChild> (with a space)
<Hobbsee> the latter, sorry
<fernando> hi all
<PriceChild> he he... :)
<PriceChild> Hobbsee even though I haven't made a debhelper tar.gz I should still be following this part of the guide?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> oh dear, i'm an idiot..
<PriceChild> its referring me to my other tar.gz, saying this "copyright" file will be different etc.
<PriceChild> You're not... I'm just being extremely difficult :)
<Hobbsee> the other one shouldnt have a copyright file?  i'm lost
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> Ok i've got 2 tars
<PriceChild> original d/l
<PriceChild> and .orig.tar.gz which is missing its debian directory
<PriceChild> I'm inside the folder which the original download (inc debian) was extracted to
<PriceChild> i ran the command to update the changelog
<PriceChild> I've just changed control also
<PriceChild> wait no....
<PriceChild> i'm inside the folder without debian
<PriceChild> and i ran dch -i
<PriceChild> which can't be right...
<PriceChild> ok it is...
<PriceChild> it had debian in before
<PriceChild> because its still got the original copyright etc.
<PriceChild> ok so now all i've got to do is look at rules
<Hobbsee> yep
<PriceChild> wait a min...
<PriceChild> when i ran dch -i
<PriceChild> i didn't change the versioning to -0ubuntu1
<PriceChild> should i change that in control and rename the folder?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> the folder will auto rename.  yes, you should change it
<Hobbsee> it'll reject if you dont
<conall> anyone here able to look at REVU for me please?
<pygi> conall: sure, what ya need?
<PriceChild> (it did change it to -p2... which it isn't... changing it to -p1-0ubuntu1)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: correct.  it's a debian thing
<Hobbsee> ie, that it's changing to -p2
<conall> pygi: I keep getting an error when I try to dput my .changes file
<conall> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<conall>   queuegraph_1.1.1-3.dsc:
<conall> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of queuegraph_1.1.1-3.dsc
<pygi> conall: have you already uploaded it once?
<conall> I did, but it never appeared on the web frontend
<pygi> conall: you joined the right LP team, and made admin re-sync keyrings?
<conall> I'm on the LP team and I think my key is synced.
<pygi> conall: first, you should wait some time before it appears. second, what's your package name?
<conall> I joined the LP team in Sept, 2 months should be enough time :)
<conall> package is called queuegraph
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: dpkg-source: error: source package has two conflicting values - xvidcap-debhelper and xvidcap
<PriceChild> where else should the name be changed to xvidcap-debhelper other than control?
<LaserJock> conall: btw, that's not a correct version number for Ubuntu
<pygi> conall: hm, no package really.
<conall> scanning the wiki docs don't say I have to rename my debian package if it simply works on both Debian and Ubuntu
<conall> *rename my package revision
<Burgwork> conall: if your package is in debian, request a sync
<Burgwork> if you want to make local ubuntu changes, upload a -XubuntuY version to Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: sorry?  where's xvidcap-debhelper come into it?
<PriceChild> when i asked if i had to change xvidcap to xvidcap-debhelper as the wiki example suggested you said i should...
<conall> Yeah, a sync is probably easier. Probably best to wait until my current package version moved from Debian's incoming to sid first though
<PriceChild> guessing i shouldn't have?
<LaserJock> conall: yeah, for sure. If it's in or going to be in Debian it's much easier to sync
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: ok switched it back to xvidcap
<PriceChild> ran a "debuild -S"
<PriceChild> worked much better....
<PriceChild> but still not right
<Hobbsee> why so, not right?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-18
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: i haven't got my tars in th parent named properly
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: oh, sorry.  my brain must have spun off or something
<PriceChild> ?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yep, you need to name it as xvidcap_versionprior to the -0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> i think i misunderstood you
<PriceChild> hmm ok
* PriceChild tries
<PriceChild> ok i've messed up the parent dir... dunno what's what now
<PriceChild> I made a backup of the actual folder... so will restore things
<Hobbsee> heh
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: ok...
<PriceChild> so i need 2 tars in the parent dir...
<PriceChild> xvidcap-1.1.4p1.tar.gz & xvidcap-1.1.4p1.orig.tar.gz ?
<PriceChild> and the "orig" has its /debian folder removed
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: correct?
<Hobbsee> yes
<PriceChild> ok :)
<PriceChild> now i can just run debuild -S and all should be perfect
* PriceChild crosses fingers
<PriceChild> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<PriceChild> an appropriate original tar file in the parent directory;
<PriceChild> (expected xvidcap_1.1.4p1.orig.tar.gz)
<PriceChild> Ok so i'm guessing i'll rename the orig tar to have an underscore...
<Hobbsee> you've missed the - between p1 and 4
<PriceChild> there isn't one on the original tar/
<PriceChild> why should i put one in now?
<Hobbsee> oh, i thoguth there was
<PriceChild> nope :)
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> everything runs through "near" perfectly
<Hobbsee> what's the first line of debian/changelog again?
<PriceChild> xvidcap (1.1.4p1-0ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<PriceChild> before it was: xvidcap (1.1.4p1) unstable; urgency=low
<Hobbsee> ah right
<PriceChild> anyway
<Hobbsee> so it needs to be xvidcap_1.1.4p1.orig.tar.gz
<PriceChild> yup i did that
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, right, you got caught by that
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee> nwo try debuild -S again?
<PriceChild> i'm learning :)
<PriceChild> i did
<Hobbsee> :)
<PriceChild> first error:
<Hobbsee> did it complain?
<PriceChild> dpkg-source: warning: source directory `./xvidcap-1.1.4p1-0ubuntu1' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> `xvidcap-1.1.4p1'
<Hobbsee> did you change the name of that dir?
<Hobbsee> or did that get done with dch -i?
<PriceChild> yes
<PriceChild> no
<PriceChild> it got changed to -p2
<PriceChild> so i manually changed the folder
<PriceChild> and the control file
<Hobbsee> oh right
<PriceChild> was that not sufficient?
<PriceChild> thanks for spending so much time on me with this btw :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: it was, you want the source dir to be named xvidcap-1.1.4p1, not with the -0ubuntu1 in it
<Hobbsee> dch fixes it for you, which is what most people use
<PriceChild> ok
* PriceChild does
<PriceChild> all the files like the dsc that were created... shall i get rid of those before trying again?
<PriceChild> or is will they just be written over when i build again?
<Hobbsee> they'll be overwritten the next time you run debuild -S
<PriceChild> ok :)
<PriceChild> closer..... :)
<PriceChild> E: xvidcap_1.1.4p1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<PriceChild> guessing that doesn't matter
<PriceChild> W: xvidcap source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.6.1 (current is 3.7.2)
<PriceChild> should i have changed that?
<PriceChild> the wiki said fine as 3.6.1
<PriceChild> Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yep.  wiki needs updating, too
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> he he can i do that? :P
<Hobbsee> run linda thru it too
<PriceChild> i will do
<Hobbsee> if you have an account for it, sure
<PriceChild> he he :P
<PriceChild> hmm.... i'm looking at a html... don't know where the actual wiki page it
<PriceChild> *is
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  seems not to be
* Hobbsee thumps LaserJock 
<PriceChild> well that's by view...
<PriceChild> *my
<PriceChild> I know the real bit is there somewhere
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: blame LaserJock
<PriceChild> nevermind
<PriceChild> anyawy
<PriceChild> ok so changed to 3.7.2
<PriceChild> one step closer :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<PriceChild> dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload
<PriceChild> dpkg-buildpackage (debuild emulation): source only, diff-only upload (original source NOT included)
<PriceChild> those sound omnious but guessing its ok
<Hobbsee> that's fine
<PriceChild> good
<Hobbsee> (you need the source tarball included, as it's not already in ubuntu)
<PriceChild> W: xvidcap source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<PriceChild> not sure what the W means... i know E means error, so don't know whether the above means i should change something
<PriceChild> Does that last comment you said require me to do something?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: why thump me?
<PriceChild> the wiki docs are a bit out of date...
<LaserJock> we have wiki docs ?!? ;-)
<PriceChild> ok not wiki docs then...
<PriceChild> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<PriceChild> needs changing i think for feisty?
<PriceChild> Standards-Version: 3.6.1
<PriceChild> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4)
<PriceChild> to 3.7.2 and >= 5 ?
<LaserJock> well, it hasn't been written for feisty yet
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<LaserJock> it's still pretty early for that
<PriceChild> thump her back then :)
<LaserJock> I should have enough info in there though to know what values to use
<LaserJock> the problem is trying to write docs for the next release before it happens ;-)
<ajmitch> everyone blames Hobbsee...
<PriceChild> she's the one teaching me! :)
<crimsun> I just blame LaserJock. He's an easy mark.
<PriceChild> anyway Hobbsee: W: xvidcap source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<PriceChild>  not sure what the W means... i know E means error, so don't know whether the above means i should change something
<crimsun> ah crap, I think my name's in that guide, too.
* crimsun ducks
<PriceChild> lol
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah
<LaserJock> :p
* LaserJock hangs up his doc hat and leaves
<PriceChild> lol :)
* PriceChild picks up the doc hat and plonks it on his head
<PriceChild> Hobbsee? :)
<Fujitsu> Morning LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch 
<ajmitch> as usual
<PriceChild> yay wb Hobbsee :)
* Hobbsee was afk
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: that's because it's ALWAYS YOUR FAULT!  duh :P
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: w means warning, and we dont have nmu's in ubuntu, as we dont really have maintainers in ubuntu
<PriceChild> ok cool
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: and no you dont have to do anything with what i said before
<PriceChild> what's a nmu?
<PriceChild> ok gd gd :)
<Hobbsee> non maintainer upload
<PriceChild> ok cool :)
<PriceChild> W: xvidcap source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 1.1.4p1-0ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> you should mentoin that you had to take out the upstream debian/ directory in the changelog though
<PriceChild> guessing that's because it doesn't recognise ubuntu verstion numbers
<Hobbsee> ignore it - that's debian specific
<Hobbsee> yep
<PriceChild> Hobbsee as far as i know we didn't do that in the end...
<PriceChild> You thought it was decent enough and we just "edited" a few thigns
<PriceChild> ok lintian finishes...
<PriceChild> and it starts a gpg signing
<PriceChild> Now we come to a problem
<PriceChild> quite a big problem....
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yeah, sorry, just remembered it
<Hobbsee> what problem?
<Hobbsee> you dont have a gpg key?
<PriceChild> well i don't think gpg works through the proxy here
<PriceChild> (oh and i haven't got a gpg key with the same name as the one it's searching for during the build)
<Hobbsee> you can specify the correct gpg key with debuild -S -kyourkeyID
<Hobbsee> why wouldnt it?
<PriceChild> *does*
<PriceChild> is there a spaec between -k and the keyid
<PriceChild> or is it -kyourkeyID
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> the latter
<PriceChild> argh
<PriceChild> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<PriceChild> debuild: fatal error at line 1151:
<PriceChild> running debsign failed
<PriceChild> :(
<Fujitsu> PriceChild: Are you using a GPG agent at all?
* PriceChild closes
<Fujitsu> If so, it'll fail... It's a known bug.
<pygi> PriceChild: dont tell me you are using seahorse :P
<Fujitsu> You'll have to comment out the appropriate line in ~/.gnupg/gnupg.conf as well.
<pygi> Fujitsu: and not very nice one
<Fujitsu> pygi: True.
<Hobbsee> oh come *on*!!!
<Hobbsee> hurry up and upload
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp cinepaint_0.21-2-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp cinepaint_0.21-2.orig.tar.gz:
<StevenK> Cinepaint is large...
<PriceChild> pygi: ask me no questions and i'll tell you no lies
<Hobbsee> it is
<pygi> PriceChild: heh :)
<PriceChild> ~/.gnupg/gnupg.conf is empty
<Hobbsee> however, i'd prefer to merge it after MOM has a go at it, as opposed to before.  and the versioning was screwed up
<Fujitsu> Maybe it's gpg.conf, then.
<PriceChild> that's the one :)
<PriceChild> thanks
<joejaxx> you all want to see something funny?
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org/crashyedgy.png << that is my edgy install
<joejaxx> fresh install*
<PriceChild> ok i haven't got a clue what the "appropriate line" is... P
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: lovely...i hate that
<Fujitsu> Something about the agent, PriceChild.
<LaserJock> joejaxx: way to go!
<PriceChild> god we're so close i can almost smell it....
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Nice.
<PriceChild> argh
<PriceChild> i commented the line out
<PriceChild> and now it doesn't even ask me for passcode before failing
<Hobbsee> you could just disable the agent...
<PriceChild> ok i must not have saved it...
<Hobbsee> ah ha!  done :)
<PriceChild> YES!!!!
* PriceChild holds Laser's doc hat on his head while he does a dance
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee hides her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> i love the tm
<PriceChild> right
<PriceChild> now...
<PriceChild> I'm not sure if i've got this gpg key uploaded to the servers...
<PriceChild> I should sort that out
<PriceChild> never had to use it before...
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: haha that is funny
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ajmitch can fix it
<Hobbsee> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<PriceChild> pardon?
<PriceChild> I don't speak motu yet :)
<PriceChild> $ gpg --send-key ????????
<PriceChild> gpg: sending key 58A21A62 to hkp server subkeys.pgp.net
<PriceChild> ?: localhost: Connection refused
<PriceChild> gpgkeys: HTTP post error 7: couldn't connect: Connection refused
<PriceChild> that's a bit wierd....
<PriceChild> I need to be able to do this to get my key on launchpad....
<PriceChild> so that i can put it onto revu...
* PriceChild tries manually
<PriceChild> ok i can do this...
<Hobbsee> hrm
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: revu has to have signed stuff, doesnt it?
<ajmitch> yes
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: got another place that you can upload to?  it doesnt have to be REVU
<PriceChild> No... i wanna sort this out :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: heh.  revu is where you're goign to try to upload it
<PriceChild> I can upload my key to http://subkeys.pgp.net without using cli
<PriceChild> i can do it via http...
<PriceChild> I don't know what happenned to my old key... I'm going to look after this one though
<PriceChild> OK what just happenned... :(
<PriceChild> hmm no i think that's ok...
<PriceChild> we're getting there...
<PriceChild> ok key sorted out :)
<PriceChild> now to do revu
<nixternal> dput revu *_source.changes
<PriceChild> Could the REVU admins re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ^
<PriceChild> he he :P
<PriceChild> ty Hobbsee :)
<PriceChild> I can just tell that after all of this.. my package is gonna get flamed out :) :P
<joejaxx> where does ubuntu keep its core dumps?
<joejaxx> near the binary?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: unlikely
<PriceChild> I hope not :)
<joejaxx> core dumps of applications
<joejaxx> rather
<PriceChild> what with master Hobbsee by my side :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: /var/cache/crash or something?  somewhere in /var
<joejaxx> ok
<StevenK> /var/cache/approx, I think.
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: heh.   i can still nitpick :P
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: trust me, revu stuff gets very picked over a lot before it gets uploaded
<PriceChild> yeah :)
<PriceChild> it has to be :)
<PriceChild> ping: ajmitch
<ajmitch> yes?
<PriceChild> hey could you resync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
<ajmitch> have you joined the team on launchpad?
<PriceChild> yup
<PriceChild> you can even have LaserJock's doc hat in return... :P
<ajmitch> no thanks
<PriceChild> fine :)
<crimsun> gotta maintain our mere mortal status.
<PriceChild> :)
* ajmitch cannot hope to even grasp at such greatness
<PriceChild> :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i thought you were a deity too?  or is that only bddebian?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: crimsun is beyond such things
<crimsun> Hobbsee: the trinity is bddebian, laserjock, and imbrandon.
* bddebian is nobody
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahhhh
<Hobbsee> crimsun: heh
<Hobbsee> bddebian: dream on.  oh, and get merging some more :P
* Fujitsu hopes NEW will get cleared out in the near future, it's getting rather long.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: patience..
<Fujitsu> (and a couple of my merges are waiting on new packages :P)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: But everybody wants the latest new crack NOW!
<PriceChild> ajmitch: any news on revu sync?
<ajmitch> PriceChild: patience...
<PriceChild> sorry :)
<ajmitch> it takes awhile
* PriceChild twiddles thumbs
<PriceChild> i can imagine :)
<PriceChild> Hobbsee...
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU says i should use "debuild -S -sa"
<PriceChild> to include source...
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yep.   you do.  actually, i thought that it said the source was included by default
<PriceChild> OK... so i should redo with -sa
<Hobbsee> where it said original source included, at the end of the build
<Hobbsee> you shouldnt need to, but check REVU when it gets there
<PriceChild> "dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload" appears half way through
<PriceChild> that mean i should have used -sa ?
<Hobbsee> hmm.  yes, you do need to then
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
* Hobbsee thought that it said orig source included at the end, but it wont harm anything
<PriceChild> nope can't see anything with that
<Hobbsee> odd
<Hobbsee> i thoguth it was there
<PriceChild> ok sorted
<PriceChild> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<PriceChild> "dpkg-buildpackage (debuild emulation): source only, diff-only upload (original source NOT included)" was there before
<Hobbsee> ahhh :)
<Hobbsee> rofl @ the 4th comment.  i should try that :P
<Hobbsee> http://blogs.smh.com.au/business/archives/2006/11/why_cant_we_all.html
<PriceChild> the long one/
<Hobbsee> yes
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> that'sso great :)
<PriceChild> I worked in EDS for a couple of weeks on work experience
<PriceChild> several years ago... lol
<PriceChild> i NEVER EVER want to work in an office ever again lol
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee liked doing work experience in an office
<PriceChild> Have you seen "The Office"?
<PriceChild> and i'm talking the english version...
<Hobbsee> mind you, the company was shoddy...so i played various bits of solitare :P
<ajmitch> PriceChild: try & upload to revu now
<Hobbsee> nope
<PriceChild> the american office is good, just not up to the english standards
<PriceChild> thankyou ajmitch
<PriceChild> Ok... i have to chagne my /etc/dput.cf to make it go to revu....
<PriceChild> but i have no dput file...
<PriceChild> i'm guessing i don't have the required software installed
* PriceChild installs
<joejaxx> wow
<joejaxx> gnome fails to load
<joejaxx> all i get is the ubuntu wallpaper
<PriceChild> uploading :)
<PriceChild> Successfully uploaded packages.
<PriceChild> Go team!!!
<joejaxx> oh well as long as i have tty2+ssh and tty3+links i am ol for the moment
* PriceChild hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee hugs PriceChild 
<joejaxx> PriceChild: haha what are you uploading? :)
* ajmitch looks at packaging up some crack
<PriceChild> We've finally got xvidcap packaged for feisty
<PriceChild> lol
<PriceChild> ok... newb question... where actually is revu?
<Hobbsee> revu.tauware.de ?
<Hobbsee> it should be in the !revu link
<PriceChild> ty :)
<joejaxx> bbl sudo sudo shutdown -r now :D
<PriceChild> argh... trying to decrypt password...
<Hobbsee> seems it hasnt hit REVU yet
<PriceChild> still trying to recover password...
<joejaxx> wow
<PriceChild> I can't decrypt it :(
<joejaxx> sudoshutdown -r now did not work i had to force shutdown
<Hobbsee> so much to review :(
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: review all of REVU, kthnksbye!
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: how many packages a day do you all get?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: to review?
<PriceChild> Could you help with this....
<PriceChild> ahhhh....
<PriceChild> its decrypting as "None" because the database hasn't caught up yet lol
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Noooooooo
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: fun.
<PriceChild> sorted now :)
<Hobbsee> ahh, here it is
* PriceChild does another dance and throws doc hat in air, catching it again
<PriceChild> where is it...
<PriceChild> wooo found it :D
<Hobbsee> interesting
<PriceChild> what?
<PriceChild> what have i done :(
<PriceChild> hmm its uploaded the dir as well...
<ajmitch> PriceChild: no, it unpacks it so that people can look at it
<PriceChild> Ah k :)
<PriceChild> clever :)
<ajmitch> +Package: xvidcaphitecture: any
<ajmitch> glad that's in the control.save
<ajmitch> mind cleaning up some of the extra files like that?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: there we go, i added a whole heap of stuff
<Hobbsee> then ajmitch can go thru it with a fine tooth comb :P
* ajmitch doesn't plan to do so today, sorry
<ajmitch> I'm not good at reviewing
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure you are, you pick up everything
<ajmitch> lies, all lies
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3467
<PriceChild> Thanks Hobbsee :)
<PriceChild> just reading :)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: refresh it?
<PriceChild> yeah i've got it :)
<PriceChild> uu and another one
<PriceChild> you're too generous :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> (you dont need the original ones, really)
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: see what i mean about being nitpicky?
<PriceChild> its constructive :)
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> so can i get rid of all the makefile stuff in debian
<PriceChild> but NOT the rest of the dir...?
* PriceChild backs up everything "as is" first
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: what/where is compat?
<ajmitch> debian/compat
<PriceChild> he he figures ;)
<Hobbsee> time for work
<Hobbsee> bye!
<PriceChild> he he
<PriceChild> ajmitch... care help me fix some of Hobbsee's issues? I'm not sure where I'm meant to mention that I had to repack the original tarball
<PriceChild> or anyone else that's around?
<PriceChild> Could anyone help me refine my package?
<PriceChild> Anyone?
<pygi> PriceChild: perhaps
<PriceChild> I just two things :)
<PriceChild> yay :)
<PriceChild> ok
<pygi> PriceChild: but it's very late, as in 2:51am
<PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3467
<PriceChild> 1:50 here :(
<PriceChild> " Please mention that you had to repack the original tarball, due to an upstream debian/ dir " - where should i put this?
<pygi> PriceChild: k, so what you need?
<pygi> PriceChild: changelog
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> and also
<PriceChild> "In debian/rules, thats a very odd way to patch things - why not use the standard patching stuff? See http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/patch-rules"
<PriceChild> so should i just replace the entire rules script with the one from that link?
<PriceChild> those rules in there atm are what came from the author...
<pygi> dunno, haven't looked at your rules :)
<PriceChild> he he :)
<pygi> PriceChild: note that most upstream entries for building packages are bad
<pygi> unless they are debian/ubuntu developers, or good contributors, whatever ^_^
<pygi> PriceChild: I could take more look at that once I wake up if it's not urgent?
<PriceChild> not urgent.... I'd just like to get it done :)
<PriceChild> thanks for your help :)
<PriceChild> much appreciated
<pygi> PriceChild: no worries ^_^
<pygi> PriceChild: could you just paste me a changelog somewhere pls for a sec?
<PriceChild> the changelog in my package?
<pygi> PriceChild: yup
<minghua> PriceChild: are you patching anything at all?  I am completely confused by your debian/rules
<pygi> PriceChild: and btw. that patch-rules are just examples ^_^
<pygi> PriceChild: paste me rules also
<pygi> minghua: :P
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32452/ that's the changelog
<minghua> PriceChild: also you probably don't want Makefile.am and Makefile.in in debian/ directory
<PriceChild> I've removed those
<pygi> PriceChild: why different mail in changelog, and in control?
<pygi> oh, original maintainer
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32453/ that's rules
<pygi> sec, lemme read more
<PriceChild> pygi: this package is extremely odd... has been hell go get this far :)
<PriceChild> baptism of fire :)
<crimsun> now you know why bddebian, laserjock, and imbrandon are deities.
<PriceChild> ?
<crimsun> see what you just typed.
<PriceChild> still confused
<pygi> PriceChild: what are you patching? cannot see any patches (but once again, didn't saw the package), and it's odd :-/
<PriceChild> i don't think i'm patching anything.... :S
<PriceChild> Ok...
<PriceChild> from the start....
<PriceChild> on xvidcap's SF page they offer a deb and a tar.gz
<PriceChild> the tar.gz contains the debian folder
<PriceChild> its not really a proper orig
<pygi> you should contact author and tell him not to provide such things :)
<PriceChild> I did
<PriceChild> he said tough... this is how to use it
<PriceChild> so with help from Hobbsee I've sorted things out
<PriceChild> and got everything we need
<PriceChild> I've kept most of his debian folder as Hobbsee thought it was okish... changing whatever i've needed to
<pygi> right, well PriceChild, I'd recommend reading on patch-rules, to get idea how patching is done
<PriceChild> lol
<pygi> altought no idea what you are patching/or not right now
<PriceChild> do i even need it?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee's been following me... and she thinks i should...
<PriceChild> In debian/rules, thats a very odd way to patch things - why not use the standard patching stuff? See http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/patch-rules
<pygi> PriceChild: I saw ^_^
<PriceChild> So i'm wondering if i should just change the rules i have with the ones fromt hat site
<pygi> PriceChild: well, if you'r gonna include some patches =)
<pygi> PriceChild: you cant just replace :)
<PriceChild> he he ok
<pygi> PriceChild: that's just an example :)
<PriceChild> I haven't got any patches as far as i know...
<PriceChild> its just wierd how she suggested "why not just use" if I can't use it
<pygi> I'd rather suggest you keep some patching mechanism in place, not to fix that package later
<pygi> PriceChild: dunno, ask her
<pygi> PriceChild: she was always smarter then me :P
<PriceChild> ha ha :)
<PriceChild> hmm ok
<PriceChild> Well maybe i should leave it as is for the night
<pygi> PriceChild: but as I see it, you can't use it "out of the box" :)
<minghua> PriceChild: also, I believe you can ask your questions in the REVU comments
<PriceChild> as in i can't use the patching thing she gave me out of the box?
<minghua> PriceChild: that way you don't need to catch the commenter on IRC
<PriceChild> Shall i upload everything I've fixed.... which is everything but this one issue....
<pygi> PriceChild: right :)
<PriceChild> and make the cmment
<PriceChild> *comment
<PriceChild> Ok i've reuploaded with the one change missing
<PriceChild> which I can ask for help with while people nitpick abotu everything else that is wrong with it :)
<Toadstool> hiya!
<PriceChild> hi
<Toadstool> hey PriceChild
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> All sorted
<PriceChild> well almost :)
<psusi> how long does it usually take for uploads to get built and listed on packages.ubuntu.com?
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defrag/0.73pjm1-8ubuntu1 lists successfully built on i386
<crimsun> packages.ubuntu.com does not sync as often as you might like.
<crimsun> (and never when you really need it to ;-)
<psusi> kick ass
<psusi> what about amd64?
* psusi looks himself
* psusi kicks build-daemon's ass
<psusi> buit on amd64 just fine for me
<psusi> wha?
<psusi> this is weird
<psusi> it built on amd64 but not ia64
<psusi> is there a way to have build daemons attempt to build a package just for debugging purposes, and not have it go into the archive?
<psusi> i.e. I want to try and fix the warnings causing build failure on these other architectures, but I don't have them here to test building on, and I'd hate to make 3 uploads before finally getting it right
<crimsun> no, but you can set up an sbuild locally.
<psusi> sbuild?
<chillywilly> how does that help if he doesn't have the archs locally?
<crimsun> (what the buildds use)
<psusi> ohh... that's different than pbuilder?
<crimsun> yes.
<psusi> and yea, how does that help without the machine to run it on?
<chillywilly> get shell access ;)
<crimsun> if you're that pressed, you can either bug lamont, or use qemu
<crimsun> s|bug|beg|
<psusi> qemu only does i386 I thought?
<crimsun> does it?
<psusi> beg lamont for what?
<crimsun> access to an ia64 machine.
<psusi> ahhhh
<chillywilly> I think qemu does other archs
<psusi> hrm....
<psusi> I thoguht it was only i386, but I'll check into that
<chillywilly> look at the changelog on the website
<chillywilly> seems lots of arch support has been added
<chillywilly> of other archs
<Toadstool> hmm.. is there something wrong with the +packages page on LP? I get a timeout error
<psusi> hrm... can't pull up the changelog on lp?
<joejaxx> hello all i am trying to see if i should package my application ie is it useful to anyone other than me lol
<joejaxx> it is basically chroot+versioning
<psusi> looks like ia64 qemu support is still in development
<psusi> I gues I'll have to beg lamont for ia64 shell access... where can I find him?
<joejaxx> and you can have multiple chroots
<joejaxx> snapshots of them
<joejaxx> hmm guess not
<psusi> I'd upload it to revu
<joejaxx> psusi: well i mean
<psusi> and post on the mailing lists asking for testers and feedback
<joejaxx> i am not going to package it if i am the only one that needs chroot environment+versioning
<psusi> why not?
<joejaxx> because no else needs it if that is the case
<joejaxx> lol
<psusi> even if nobody else wants it, it's handy for yourself to have it packaged... and the easiest way to get others to try it is to package it
<joejaxx> psusi: yeah i guess
* ajmitch needs caffeine and/or food
<Hobbsee> hey all
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> I was afraid the Universe would implode or something when I say crimsun had quit
<LaserJock> s/say/saw/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not possible
<ajmitch> crimsun *can't* quit
<LaserJock> I'm glad it was only a temporary imbalance in the force
<ajmitch> it was merely our perception of the reality of IRC
<ajmitch> since he was still connected to freenode, but a different freenode to us
<LaserJock> "there is no freenode"
<ajmitch> OPN? :)
<Mez> LaserJock, "you cannot bend the freenode, just let the freenode bend"
<LaserJock> I just hope crimsun doesn't offer me any colored pills
<Mez> Take the BLUE one
<Mez> the BLUE one!!!! :P
<joejaxx> haha
* Hobbsee looks for the purple one
* joejaxx comes in randomly
* joejaxx watches out for the stick of doom
<elkbuntu> "sorry, i dont do drugs" :
<Hobbsee> nah, not in the mood for that
<Mez> elkbuntu, drugs are bad, mmk ?
<elkbuntu> ;)
<Mez> Hobbsee, purple pills! I want one!
* ajmitch is sure that elkbuntu is a good girl at heart ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> Mez: me too!
<Mez> crimsun, do you have any polka dot pills?
<Mez> crimsun, or any pacdots?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: so where are those incriminating photos of jono?
<joejaxx> pacodts :P
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> pacdots
<LaserJock> ajmitch: look on planet.gnome.org
<joejaxx> ajmitch: on the internet lol
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure they're not all there
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no, but there is 1
<LaserJock> and some other good UDS ones
<ajmitch> aha, kikidonk to the rescue! :)
* ajmitch met up with him & a few others in the airport last saturday
<joejaxx> LOl the jono bottle dance
<elkbuntu> bahahaha...
<elkbuntu> my bottle dance photo is better, if lacking clarity
* Mez needs links
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: as he was drinking?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, no... a bit more obviously dancing
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: the two are not mutually exclusive :)
<ajmitch> hm, a photo with me in it - that's rare
<LaserJock> really? I didn't see one
<elkbuntu> heh. i got several of your back
<ajmitch> LaserJock: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kikidonk/298871717/in/set-72157594378965670/
<LaserJock> I always like playing "Where's Mitchie?"
* LaserJock runs
<ajmitch> hah
<LaserJock> dholbach is so photogenic
<ajmitch> always
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> so smiley
<ajmitch> seems that every photo of jono here has him drinking
<Mez> dholbach is sexah
<StevenK> ajmitch: Read his blog, jono says he has been out drinking for 2 weeks straight now. :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: I could believe that
<elkbuntu> hehe
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ajmitch> I wonder if canonical will cover costs of a liver transplant
<StevenK> Muahaha
<ajmitch> hey TheMuso
<Mez> StevenK, however, jono is a lightweight
* StevenK waves to TheMuso.
<StevenK> Mez: Oh?
* StevenK finally convinces aircrack-ng to actually build.
<Mez> StevenK, apparently he was outdrunk by jorge castro
<StevenK> Ah.
<elkbuntu> haha, yes, quite.
<ajmitch> poor jono
<elkbuntu> im thinking i should put up my version now
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: haha
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> fluxbox (0.9.14-2)
<elkbuntu> anyone disagree?
<joejaxx> if there was a first ubuntu modification
<joejaxx> whould it be
<joejaxx> 0.9.14-2ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> 0.9.14-2ubuntu1
<joejaxx> ah ok:)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: please do so
<StevenK> elkbuntu: And then link it here.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Or I might be forced to drive over there and see it for myself.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, you ever doubted i would?
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's not a short drive
<StevenK> It isn't?
* joejaxx does the Jono Bottle Dance like never before
<joejaxx> Lol
<ajmitch> well it's a bit shorter than if I were to drive
<ajmitch> surely you're not that desperate to see photos?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Aside from the fact that you can't?
<ajmitch> StevenK: minor details
<StevenK> Meeting elkbuntu is also a reason. :-P
<StevenK> dpkg-deb: building package `aircrack' in `../aircrack_0.6.2-3ubuntu1_all.deb'.
<StevenK> Hooray!
<ajmitch> yay crack!
<Hobbsee> its lying
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i intend to get as far as your part of this rock for LCA... i'm *hoping* to anyway
<joejaxx> StevenK: oh no lool
<ajmitch> shame I may not make it for LCA
<joejaxx> StevenK: wait until pbuilder fails :)
<StevenK> That was a pbuilder.
<joejaxx> :P
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Hum. I thought you were Sydney. Oh, well.
<elkbuntu> hah. not quite. Albury
<ajmitch> hence my comment
<StevenK> Hrrm, Albury is no fun.
<elkbuntu> im at least in the right state :)
* ajmitch hasn't had the joy of visiting albury yet
* joejaxx builds the modified fluxbox package
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Heh. :-)
<elkbuntu> i regret to admit however, i was born the other side of the border. wodonga had the obstetrics monopoly at the time
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> elkbuntu: I won't hold it against you. :-)
<Mez> StevenK, that sounds like a dodgy chat up line
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: run.
<Hobbsee> :P
<elkbuntu> rofl
* ajmitch is the only one lucky(?) enough to have met you all
<elkbuntu> seems so
<StevenK> Hence why he's now hiding in .nz?
<ajmitch> recovering
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> Aussie overdose
<TheMuso> I've only had the privelage of meeting StevenK and Hobbsee so far.
* ajmitch twitches
<StevenK> I daresay meeting me isn't a privledge.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: oh by the way what do you think of grsecurity?
* Mez gives ajmitch drugs to stop the twitching
<joejaxx> Mez: the blue pill
<Mez> the PURPLE pill ;)
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> oh shoot
* joejaxx forgot there is --debsign-k
<ajmitch> joejaxx: run far away
<joejaxx> ajmitch: away from grsec?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Why not? I certainly think it is.
<ajmitch> joejaxx: the author's a certified nut
* joejaxx has the opportunity to meet ajmitch elkbuntu and LaserJock :)
<ajmitch> it'll never be in the mainstream kernel, for one
<joejaxx> ajmitch: oh wow
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'm one of these lovely people that doesn't have a high opinion of himself.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: is the concept behind it that bad?
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, and have kurt stop you from killing a bus driver
<joejaxx> haha yes and kurt
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well that is a shame.
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: that bus ride was hilarious rofl
<elkbuntu> i wasnt on it, but the storyteller has skill
<joejaxx> yes it was REALLY funny
* Simon80 hasn't met anybody
* Simon80 crouches in remote cave somewhere and hugs his satellite uplink
<ajmitch> joejaxx: which bus ride was that one?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: well it was the one where the bus driver was talking about his wife
* Simon80 is actually at home
<ajmitch> joejaxx: grsec author refuses to integrate with the lsm hooks, for one
<ajmitch> joejaxx: ok, so not the one where the bus driver took us on the scenic tour for about 45 minutes as he got lost
<StevenK> ajmitch: They don't trust the LSM hooks?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: and about how she used to be a Mann (ie the last name before he married her)
<ajmitch> StevenK: more like projectile vomiting, head spinning sort of reaction
<StevenK> Hah
<joejaxx> ajmitch: no not that one haha
<joejaxx> its alive its alive! fluxbox that is
<joejaxx> hopeuflly pbuilder does not complain
<joejaxx> hello Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey joejaxx
<whiprush> hi guys.
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<whiprush> joejaxx: dang dude, I saw you at UDS and I never introduced myself.
<whiprush> hi ajmitch
<Burgundavia> whiprush: NM hates me
<ajmitch> slacker
<joejaxx> whiprush: really?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: how do I test if dbus is up or not?
<whiprush> joejaxx: yeah, I was the fat hispanic guy hanging around ajmitch
<whiprush> Burgundavia: NM?
<joejaxx> whiprush: oh ok
<Burgundavia> whiprush: network manager
<whiprush> Burgundavia: welcome to the club?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: hard to say, depends if it wants the session or system bus
<ajmitch> dbus is a nightmare
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: update-manager says to me: warning: could not initiate dbus
<Burgundavia> and I am having NM reconnect every 5 minutes
<ajmitch> probably fixed by logging out & back in
<StevenK> NM also uses dbus.
<ajmitch> or rebooting :)
<ajmitch> the whole world uses dbus
<Burgundavia> I just rebooted
<Burgundavia> it didn't fix it
<ajmitch> "modprobe dbus"
<Burgundavia> dbus needs to deal with itself dying, period
<whiprush> ajmitch: so dude you think desktop drapes is doable for feisty in universe?
<ajmitch> whiprush: sure, why not?
<whiprush> ajmitch: rock on.
<Burgundavia> now that we are finally at 1.0, that better be something they fix
<whiprush> Burgundavia: 1.0.1, see planet.
<elkbuntu> http://www.geekosophical.net/?p=42
<elkbuntu> StevenK, --^
* ajmitch cheers
<Burgundavia> whiprush: ya, saw that
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: pity it's so grainy
<elkbuntu> i know
<elkbuntu> it's a crap camera
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Yay
<whiprush> ajmitch: you mentioned some packaging issues the last time we talked, you have them on bzr someplace? the author is keen of making the fixes upstream.
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: rofl
* joejaxx does the bottle dance
<whiprush> hi elkbuntu!
<elkbuntu> whiprush, someone gave me an excuse to post it! yay!
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: that is funny
<joejaxx> :P
<StevenK> Heh
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: it appears that the session bus is fine
<ajmitch> whiprush: nope, haven't made any changes
<Burgundavia> maybe my system bus is toast
<whiprush> ajmitch: wasn't it all wrong wrt the ubuntu cli policy?
* ajmitch should toast his box & boot up vista
<ajmitch> whiprush: sure, but I haven't made any changes
<whiprush> oh oh
<StevenK> ajmitch: Heathen!
<whiprush> ajmitch: if you commit we can adopt those changes upstream.
<whiprush> author is more than willing to make it work(tm) for MOTU
<ajmitch> StevenK: sorry?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Installing Vista
<ajmitch> StevenK: oh it's already installed
<ajmitch> has been for awhile in vmware
<StevenK> Oh dear.
<whiprush> ajmitch: we're just not very familiar with ubuntu mono stuff, so we just kind of copied and pasted from other packages
<ajmitch> whiprush: tell me which packages, they'll probably need fixed
<whiprush> ajmitch: I'm talking about the drapes package.
<whiprush> last we talked you were looking at it and you mentioned something about not being conformant to the ubuntu mono standard.
<ajmitch> whiprush: yes, I understand that
<ajmitch> but you just said you copied breakage from elsewhere
<whiprush> oh, I must have mispoke.
<whiprush> what I meant to say was that we probably copied breakage from elsewhere.
<whiprush> aka ... we did the "what deps do other mono packages have?"
<whiprush> and then probably just copied and pasted those.
<ajmitch> aha
<whiprush> ajmitch: so basically, when my student wrote the program I was like "find another mono program and just copy their packaging, we'll figure out the rest later."
<ajmitch> oh dear, native version as well
<whiprush> which was probably stupid.
<whiprush> but he's keen on maintaining his own stuff, so if you could point us in the right direction i think that should be enough.
<ajmitch> ok
<whiprush> ajmitch: at your convenience of course. there's no rush
<whiprush> since you're the one doing us a favor.
<whiprush> For my part i'm just happy to find a student who is even working on OSS stuff.
<whiprush> since that's so rare.
<ajmitch> hm, 'fesity', that's a new one
<whiprush> FISTY
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> wow it is 02:30 EST
<Burgundavia> yes, yes it is
* Burgundavia is distupgrading as we speak
<joejaxx> nice
* ajmitch should do another ubuntu spinoff
<ajmitch> they seem popular these days
<joejaxx> spinoff?
<ajmitch> like fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> derivative?
<joejaxx> oh ok
<ajmitch> whiprush: dude, 'bootshrap.sh'?
<whiprush> what was that new w32codecs one?
<whiprush> MINTY UBUNTU
<ajmitch> nice contents..
<ajmitch> # fuck it, just use the gnome autogen
<ajmitch> REQUIRED_AUTOMAKE_VERSION="1.9" REQUIRED_AUTOCONF_VERSION="2.53" USE_COMMON_DOC_BUILD="yes" USE_GNOME2_MACROS="1" gnome-autogen.sh $@
<joejaxx> lol
<whiprush> ajmitch: I merely work with him .. if you've got technical issues, I can get ahold of him for you.
<Burgundavia> whiprush: don't laugh. DiscoverStation ships with w32codecs
<whiprush> ajmitch: Should I go wake him up? he's sleeping on one of my couches. :)
<ajmitch> whiprush: just that it needs a few things like having automake, etc run
<ajmitch> haha
<whiprush> Burgundavia: in the US?
<Burgundavia> whiprush: oh yes
<whiprush> ajmitch: we had poker nite here, he's all passed out.
<ajmitch> nah, I'm heading downstairs to cook some dinner in a couple of minutes
<whiprush> Burgundavia: wow, nice one.
<ajmitch> I'll harass him later
<Burgundavia> holly crap: http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that is worrying
<Burgundavia> look at where Mint is
<whiprush> ajmitch: he's "dem" on #gnome-hackers
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: worrying
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: very worrying. I need to deal with it
<whiprush> ajmitch: he's an arrogant little CS student though, so if you have bad stuff, proxy through me for the best.
<Burgundavia> the DS thing
<whiprush> or put him in his place, that's good too. :D
<ajmitch> whiprush: I've been a tutor at uni, don't worry :)
<joejaxx> Linux Mint is based outof ireland
<whiprush> ajmitch: :d
<whiprush> LINUX MINT!!!
<joejaxx> the problem i see with these derivatives is that they do not really work closely with the ubuntu community
<joejaxx> its like
<joejaxx> ubuntu is here
<joejaxx> and these derivatives are on planet number 10
<ajmitch> few derivatives do work closely
<joejaxx> yeah
<ajmitch> do you have any of your fluxbuntu stuff in yet?
* ajmitch knows that ichthux has the meta packages & artwork in
<joejaxx> ajmitch: nope stillworking on it
<joejaxx> the problem that is going to arise is
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it does, it's quite sensible
<joejaxx> i cannot include the fluxbuntu configuration files
<joejaxx> without rebuilding rox-filer, fluxbox and wdm
<ajmitch> why can't you?
<ajmitch> because they can't have things set at runtime?
<ajmitch> or what is the issue?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: well i have configuration files and according to what laserjock told me
<joejaxx> i cannot have a default-settings package
<joejaxx> overwritten the configuration files of wdm, rox and fluxbox
<LaserJock> well, I didn't say you couldn't have one
<joejaxx> which goes against debian policy
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> so i actually have no idea what i am going to do when fluxbuntu-* gets into universe
<Hobbsee> what's hte problem with having a default-settings package?
<Hobbsee> handle it however kubuntu does it
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: they probably rebuild the kde packages
<joejaxx> i guess
<joejaxx> i do not think i can do that
<ajmitch> joejaxx: diversions, alternatives, etc
<joejaxx> for universe
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ?
<joejaxx> well the fluxbox package built without a problem
* joejaxx uploads
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: is a motu?
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> my own repository
<ajmitch> joejaxx: did you get your key signed at UDS?
<joejaxx> no i did not
<ajmitch> a shame
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> joejaxx: why not?!?
<ajmitch> perfect opportunity to do so
<joejaxx> it is quite unfortunate
<Hobbsee> ah
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: KDE uses cascading config dirs
<ajmitch> is there anyone around who can sign your key still who will be trusted?
* Mez -> bed
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i thought it might.
<joejaxx> ajmitch: you mean in nj?
<joejaxx> no i do not think so
<ajmitch> joejaxx: wherever you are..
<ajmitch> you really should have tried to get it signed at UDS
<joejaxx> i was one of two people from nj
<ajmitch> surely there'll be a DD within range
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> nj isn't that big :)
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> checked
<joejaxx> no one in nj
<ajmitch> hard to believe
<ajmitch> considering that there are 5 DDs in this city
<joejaxx> unless that page has updated since someone posted the link in this channel
* ajmitch looks
<joejaxx> NC
<joejaxx> NM
<joejaxx> no nj
<joejaxx> lol
<Mez> joejaxx, why didnt you get it signed at UDS?
<ajmitch> hm, jaldhar_ may be NJ
<ajmitch> & he lurks in this channel too
<joejaxx> Mez: because i was not actually thinking about getting my key signed while i was there
<joejaxx> i was more focused on the specs
<Mez> joejaxx, you shoulda poked ajmitch - he's usually willing (specially when he's just had to create a new key!)
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> poor joejaxx
<Mez> didnt they have a keysigning party ?
<ajmitch> Mez: no, too many people
* joejaxx was not invited lol
<joejaxx> it is quite alright
<Mez> ajmitch, ah, i thought with mako there and all,
<Mez> he usually likes a lot of signing
<LaserJock> well, he was going to do one
* Mez just wishes he'd been at UBZ
<joejaxx> by the time i will need my key signed there will probably be another opportunity
<Mez> joejaxx, UDSfeisty+1
<ajmitch> joejaxx: you may need it signed to be a MOTU
<joejaxx> well yes
<joejaxx> but i do not think i am at that point yet
<ajmitch> I hope you will be soon
<ajmitch> best to get this fluxbuntu stuff in asap
* Mez points joejaxx to biglumber
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> that's what I did
<Simon80> anyone in toronto or vaughan areas that want to sign a key?
<Mez> thats what I did
<Mez> before I http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?qs=toronto
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah probably so
<Simon80> Mez: I know, but just wondering
<joejaxx> the problem is
<Mez> before I lost my key :D
<joejaxx> we are nowhere near final
<LaserJock> joejaxx: doesn't matter really
* Mez still needs to poke Phil Hands for a new keysigning
<Mez> and Keybuk#
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but it means the seeds and packages will change alot
<joejaxx> until we get to final
<LaserJock> still good to get them in the repo
<LaserJock> get testing, etc.
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> LaserJock: fluxbuntu users are crazy haha http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=301689
<joejaxx> :P
* joejaxx is not participating in that poll
<ajmitch> yeah I saw that one & cringed
<joejaxx> yeah
<minghua> anybody using aptitude in feisty?
<ajmitch> minghua: sure
<minghua> ajmitch: do you see bug 72012 and bug 72112?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72012 in aptitude "aptitude pegs cpu for extended period of time on startup (again)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72012
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72112 in aptitude ""initalizing package status" process so slowly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72112
<minghua> this is really annoying here when I want to do some MOTU work
<StevenK> Use a chroot like most people do this early? :-P
<joejaxx> hmm i need a jbuilder feisty chroot
<StevenK> What's jbuilder? :-P
<ajmitch> minghua: nope
<joejaxx> my application
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 74M 2006-11-18 17:25 /var/cache/pbuilder/base-feisty-amd64.tgz
<ajmitch> minghua: runs perfectly fine for me on the laptop & desktop
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 74M 2006-11-18 17:26 /var/cache/pbuilder/base-feisty-i386.tgz
<joejaxx> StevenK: chroot+versioning
<zakame> afternoon MOTUs!
<minghua> there should be some trigger to this aptitude slowdown, then
<ajmitch> StevenK: some of us just decided to upgrade anyway
<StevenK> joejaxx: I use a few wrappers around pbuilder, works well.
<siretart> morning
<zakame> hi siretart
<joejaxx> StevenK: not for what i do
<siretart> ajmitch: I just the removed the (broken) trac installation from tiber
<StevenK> I have one to build, one to upgrade and one to login. What else do you need to do?
<joejaxx> StevenK: i had to write my own to aide me in building livecds from scratch
<siretart> ajmitch: we now use launchpad anyway
<joejaxx> you cannot build livecd's in a pbuilder environment
<StevenK> joejaxx: Ah. Live CDs I haven't touched.
<joejaxx> its fun
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<zakame> should be extra fun
<joejaxx> zakame: yeah it is
<ajmitch> siretart: I don't think any of us used trac there :)
<joejaxx> especially when things do not work they way you want them to :P
<zakame> right
<joejaxx> nice it finished
* ajmitch hates to think just how illegal this mint distro could be
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah pretty much
<joejaxx> i do not get how they are on distrowatch already
<joejaxx> there is supposed to be a 90 days period before you get on there lol
<whiprush> joejaxx: crack-of-the-day
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: they likely paid for advertising
<Burgundavia> that is how Ubuntu ce did it
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: oh ok
<joejaxx> whiprush: lol
<joejaxx> interesting
<zakame> yo Hobbsee
<minghua> I nuked my /var/lib/aptitude/, now it goes back to normal
<joejaxx> minghua: i was doing feisty testing
<minghua> but I lost all my "auto-installed" status :-(
<joejaxx> until none of my input devices worked
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<joejaxx> minghua: :\
<minghua> the less of two evil, I suppose
<joejaxx> minghua: all i could do what boot up to gdm haha
<minghua> the "auto-installed" thing is not that important on a development system anyway
<joejaxx> it was fine when i first dist-upgraded to it
<joejaxx> but i guess the following updates killed  it
<minghua> joejaxx: speaking of testing feisty, my box still refuse to boot by itself now
* ajmitch gets sick of reading forums & what various people *MUST* *HAVE* but won't put any time into helping with :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<joejaxx> minghua: really?
<Hobbsee> yes, me too
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yes me too
<minghua> I need to be dropped to an initramfs shell and give it a lift
<minghua> joejaxx: yeah, no kidding
<joejaxx> minghua: wow
<ajmitch> minghua: oh that problem, I had that :)
<joejaxx> i remember trying to fix my feisty install
<joejaxx> boooting up on edgy live
<minghua> That's what I said "now it doesn't boot after upgrade" a few days ago here
<joejaxx> and mounting /dev/hda1 and chrooting in
<minghua> anyway
* minghua goes back to catch up MOTU work
<ajmitch> took about 6 minutes of waiting, and 10 seconds of running the right script to get it to boot
<sivang> morning all
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  so i should not be dist-upgrading to feisty?
<Hobbsee> hey sivang
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: you already started?
<sivang> Hobbsee: why not?
<joejaxx> hello StevenK
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> sivang:
* sivang uses it and its mostly all good
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: i'm on a live cd now, why not
<Hobbsee> sivang: because it's broken?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you know it's going to be broken in weird & wonderful ways
<sivang> Hobbsee: what's broken in it?
* Hobbsee still likes being able to boot
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true
<Hobbsee> sivang: see what ajmitch said
<minghua> ajmitch: heh.  do you use LVM as well?
<ajmitch> minghua: yes, LVM+RAID
<sivang> ajmitch: are folks not able to boot?
<LaserJock> my feisty is working fine
<joejaxx> i should create another partition and debootstrap myself a mini feistyinstall
<minghua> I don't have RAID, but I have root on LVM
<Hobbsee> well, if it only wont boot on LVM+RAID, i'm not effected
<Hobbsee> s/effected/affected/
<ajmitch> took 3 minutes for RAID to come alive, and 3 minutes of waiting for root filesystem before I had to start LVM myself
<sivang> there is a mdadm breakage, but after I remove it everything is fine (minus flashplugin-nonfree that is going to get sroted when a debconf issue is fixed in debian)
* Hobbsee wonders what mdadm does
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: raid
<Hobbsee> ahh
<sivang> ajmitch: there is some spec to make sure LVM plays nicely with upstart's event model,  maybe Scott has been naughty over the last couple of days? ;-)
<ajmitch> sivang: no, scott hasn't touched it yet - I was at some of those bofs
<sivang> ah, I see
<siretart> Hobbsee: which bug are you talking about?
<joejaxx> i need a filesystem that does dynamic resizing like with the vmware harddrive images
<sivang> ajmitch: was it worth it btw to arrive at UDS yourself ? /me is curious if he should have sold some hardware to fund going htere ;)
<Hobbsee> siretart: wasnt mentioning a specific one.  however, i'm hoping some of my bugs will be fixed
<ajmitch> sivang: of course
* ajmitch will get it all back in 1 way or another anyway
<sivang> ajmitch: damn! I know I could have done fine without my desktop and printer :p
* Hobbsee celebrates some non-bling window moving
<LaserJock> who needs a printer?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: when i submit fluxbuntu to universe i can then attach the packages to fluxbuntu on launchpad right?
<sivang> LaserJock: indeed
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: only a wimp
<sivang> ajmitch: how come?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yeah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: REAL people dont need printers.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i was not going to enable malone until they were in
<sivang> write, they copy by hand
<LaserJock> yeah, my lab mates aren't convinced
<LaserJock> our color laserjet has been down for over a week
<LaserJock> and they are kinda getting upset with me ;-)
<joejaxx> oh wow
<sivang> ajmitch: you mean you get it back by enjoying the experiencing and being able to influence where ubuntu is going? ;)
<ajmitch> that too
<joejaxx> bbl everyone
<LaserJock> nah, he just wanted to get sloshed with the rest of the gang
<ajmitch> haha
<siretart> ajmitch: is your machine with root on lvm on raid running feisty already? known breakage?
<LaserJock> and take super sekret pics of the inner working of Google
<ajmitch> siretart: yes & yes
<siretart> is there a bug number I could subscribe to?
<ajmitch> siretart: at least fabbione knows about it on irc, I haven't submitted a bug
<siretart> ok
<siretart> upgrading to feisty delayed..
<ajmitch> I don't know if it's just race conditions
* sivang notes actually that it would have cost much more then that, say (desktop+printer+display)*4 , but I didn't get a visa anyways, so I couldn't come at all :...-(
<ajmitch> but it's just timeouts in initramfs when loading things
<ajmitch> I can still run the lvm script & have everything come up just fine
<siretart> you mean out of the initramfs?
<ajmitch> yes
<minghua> ajmitch: if I want to report a bug, which package should it be against?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I was going to file one against mdadm, but it seems it's not just that?
<Simon80> I tend to avoid using ubuntu unstable release, I just gave up and use gentoo when I get impatient
<ajmitch> or are you using lvm+raid?
<LaserJock> minghua: you're supposed to be fixing them, not creating more ;-p
<Simon80> ....ubuntu is well ahead of gentoo in a few areas though,I'd say
<Simon80> releases*
<minghua> no I am not using RAID
<minghua> only LVM
<ajmitch> ok
<minghua> so it's not likely mdadm's fault
<ajmitch> then I don't know
<ajmitch> since I'm using an edgy kernel still
<minghua> LaserJock: I am pretty sure said bug belongs to main :-)
<LaserJock> still
<minghua> I'll look at my upgrade log then
<minghua> this breakage happened without a kernel upgrade
<minghua> so something writing to initrd is responsible
<ajmitch> mdadm triggers update-initramfs
<minghua> LaserJock: BTW did you looked bug 71851?  I can't reproduce
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71851 in xdrawchem "the program was closed unexpectedly" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71851
<minghua> the bug and patch looks quite reasonable though
* ajmitch so tired
<LaserJock> minghua: I say we remove it from the archives :-0
<palski> minghua: for me it happened everytime
<LaserJock> works fine for me
<minghua> palski: apparently it's a bit environment dependent :-(
<LaserJock> is it a locale issue?
<palski> minghua: Upstream haven't commented that patch at all, so I cannot say anything, but I thought hobbsee already uploaded it :)
<palski> no sorry, that was other bug never mind
<LaserJock> palski: so any time you use the text tool it crashes?
<palski> yes
<minghua> palski: do you use GNOME or KDE?
<palski> gnome
<minghua> palski: locale and X keymap?
<palski> and i'm not the only one :)
* Hobbsee dist-upgrades to feisty
<palski> en_US.UTF-8
* zakame decolgs his internets' tubes
<LaserJock> palski: what does dpkg -l | grep xdrawchem give you?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: pretty easy, but you will not get a new kernel yet, due to no linux-image meta packages
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: awww.  thought i could manually install it
<Burgundavia> you can
<Hobbsee> there's l-r-m, which i'll need, so it should be okay
<palski> ii  xdrawchem                                  1.9.9-1ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> i'm presuming l-m hasnt been updated due to not building on all arches?
* minghua was happy too early.  aptitude still crawls :-(
<LaserJock> palski: :/
<Burgundavia> I am sticking with the older kernel for right now, due to the only piece I need from lrm being my networking
<minghua> I am out of ideas on this xdrawchem bug
<LaserJock> I don't see why it works for some and not others
<LaserJock> geeze, freenode seems a bit flaky today
<ajmitch> quite
<Hobbsee> today?  more like for the last month or so
<StevenK> Hah
<LaserJock> palski: I would think that would come up as an error when compiling
<minghua> LaserJock: not in C
<LaserJock> darn, yet another reason not to learn C ;p
<nixternal> bah
* StevenK twitches, and wonders how many MOTUs actually know C.
<ajmitch> StevenK: isn't that a music thing?
<LaserJock> as in, know how to write it or know how to swear at it?
<StevenK> Then again, my C skills were minimal when I became a DD.
<StevenK> Now they're slightly less minimal. :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know a little. I know the syntax for the most part, but I don't know the necessary header files one needs to include to use different functions in glibc. :)
<TheMuso> But given well commented code and well named functions, I can usually read some code and work out what it is trying to do.
<TheMuso> kernel code being the exception however.
<StevenK> Which is usually good enough.
* StevenK has only played in shallow end of kernel code.
<minghua> actually it's C++, but the idea is the same :-)
<StevenK> Applying patches from ALSA upstream and slight fixes.
<TheMuso> Oh yeah, and well named variables.
<StevenK> int x; double y; long int z;
<TheMuso> I personally don't like single letter variables being used in loops, as one doesn't know what tat variable is supposed to represent in terms of the content it is helping to address etc.
<TheMuso> or it makes it harder anyways.
<StevenK> I don't mind single letter variables in *short* loops.
<TheMuso> yeah short loops are ok.
<TheMuso> But even in shell programming, I use variables that state what content is being addressed.
<TheMuso> C++ on the other hand is totally out of the question.
<StevenK> My C++ knowledge is ... swiss-cheese like
<LaserJock> all my Fortran loops are single letter variables :-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I hope your code is very well commented. :)
<LaserJock> comments?
<LaserJock> you can put comments in your code? ;-)
* StevenK doesn't usually comment.
<TheMuso> \/c
<LaserJock> I spent like 4 hrs trying to decipher my bosses fortran the other day
<LaserJock> at like 3:00am
* StevenK needs to dechiper some awk at work on Monday.
<LaserJock> StevenK: good luck with that
* StevenK dislikes awk.
<LaserJock> it's a love, hate relationship
<LaserJock> I love it for data manipulation
<LaserJock> bed time
<LaserJock> cya all
<minghua> okay, I think I finally have a consistent aptitude status database now
* minghua won't fiddle with aptitude's /var/lib/ files again
<Simon80> lol
<ajmitch> night all
<minghua> night ajmitch
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
* crimsun uploads a "blue/purple/polka dot pills" release just for laserjock, Hobbsee, mez, and ajmitch
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yay!  :)
<TheMuso> Release of what? :)
<crimsun> (it just hit feisty-changes)
<StevenK> HAH!
<StevenK> flashplugin-nonfree
<TheMuso> Oh... That crap. :)
<sivang> crimsun: cool
* sivang dist-upgrades
<sivang> crimsun: I take it Bart fixed the debconf issue/
<sivang> ?
<sivang> hrm
<sivang> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-data_4%3a3.5.5a.dfsg.1-1ubuntu5_all.deb (--unpack):
<sivang>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kinfocenter/cdinfo/index.cache.bz2', which is also in package kcontrol
<sivang> Hobbsee: known ? :)
* sivang also spott some pgsql breakage
<sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-data_4%3a3.5.5a.dfsg.1-1ubuntu5_all.deb
<sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<Shadowpillar> sup
<Shadowpillar> bzflag is under universe, am I correct?
<geser> yes, it's in universe
<Shadowpillar> who built it?
<Shadowpillar> I need to know how all the .in files in debian/ were generated
<Shadowpillar> what command and all
<Shadowpillar> generated into the actual files
<Shadowpillar> such as changelog.in being generated into changelog
<Shadowpillar> etc
<Gloubiboulga> look at the debian/buildsnap script
<Gloubiboulga> line 20 :)
<Shadowpillar> Gloubiboulga: so do I just run buildsnap?
<Gloubiboulga> I guess
<Gloubiboulga> I'm trying it
<Gloubiboulga> `./debian/buildsnap cvs`
<Hobbsee> sivang: not known.
<Hobbsee> sivang: can you paste me that again please?  i'm out of irssi now
<Hobbsee> sivang: that being said, i'll need someone in core dev to upload it, and i'm nto sure if there are more fixes
<Hobbsee> sivang: please file, and subscribe me to it.
<Shadowpillar> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: testbuilding entity
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Ok.
<pygi> giskard: any work that needs to be done against n-m?
<giskard> pygi, dunno, i've merged it from debian 4 days ago, i didn't tell you where you can get it?
<sivang> pygi, giskard : network-manager ?
<giskard> yes
<sivang> giskard: oh, hi btw :)
<giskard> hello :)
<pygi> giskard: you have, you have :)
<pygi> giskard: but it's not all about packaging a release :)
<pygi> giskard: let's write patches, fix stuff
<giskard> pygi, ok! what we can do is asking for a revu+upload and then mail all bug submitter
<pygi> giskard: sure
<giskard> pygi, we already support dbus1
<pygi> giskard: you will upload to revu?
<giskard> and i've fixed other thing, afaik.
<giskard> pygi, revu is used also for main?
<pygi> I know, it's all nice, but a lot of users will still have problems :)
<sivang> giskard: say, have you ever thought taking any of our local patches to notification-daemon and incorporate them into debian? what about the latest upstream release ChipX86 has done ? any chance to get it in sid soon so we won't have to merge locally in ubuntu? (the upstream fixes los of stuff from our patches and some other reported bug reports)
<giskard> pygi, i told tolleg where he can get my dsc diff
<pygi> giskard: for whatever is needed that needs review.
<giskard> sivang, it's already in pkg-galago..
<giskard> i've lost my gpg key, my new one (signed by another DD) is not yet in the debian-keyring
<giskard> i'm waiting elmo.
<giskard> so i need a sponsor for it.
<pygi> oh :P
<giskard> (and we have a lot of problem, as we don't ship gtk2.10 in unstable..so i have to prepare 2 different packages)
<giskard> time to eat something. see you later
<pygi> giskard: any ETA on gtk2.10 and stuff in sid? I cannot package brasero, and stuff
<pygi> giskard: bon appetit
<giskard> merci
<azeem> pygi: not gonna happen before etch, AIUI
<pygi> azeem: I know ... sadly
<Adri2000> I have a new upstream release for a package, and upstream included my debian/ directory in the tarball, what should I do with that? :s
<pygi> Adri2000: repackage
<Adri2000> repackage?
<pygi> Admiral_Chicago: repackage the source tarball
<pygi> to remove the debian/
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> pygi: /me is Adri2000 :p
<pygi> Admiral_Chicago: how does that help me? :P
<pygi> Adri2000: and mention that you had to repack the tarball in changelog
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> upstream wanted to do things good, they integrated all the patches I made for the initial release of the package
<Adri2000> but debian/ isn't a good idea
<pygi> Adri2000: yes, I understand
<pygi> tell it to upstream :)
<pygi> Which package is it btw.?
<Adri2000> djplay
<pygi> ok, never heard :)
<Adri2000> it's the "high class live DJing application for Linux" :)
<geser> Adri2000: how up-to-date is the shipped debian/ dir?
<Adri2000> ubuntu version is -0ubuntu3, the changelog in the shipped debian/dir stops at -0ubuntu2
<Adri2000> but between this two versions it was a patch and all the patches are integrated now
<geser> imho it doesn't make sense to strip out the debian/ dir and readd the same files in diff.gz
<Adri2000> currently, the diff.gz has only debian/changelog :p
<pygi> geser: imho it does make sense, but I'm off to lunch
<Adri2000> but I don't know if it's good to not show debian/* in the diff.gz
<geser> if you repack it you lose to verify the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz against upstream
<geser> is it worth it for the debian/ dir?
<geser> s/lose to/lose the ability to/
<pygi> geser: but you'll call the repackaged tarball .orig.tar.gz
<Adri2000> I think I will repack the tarball because I can't see a diff.gz without the whole debian/ dir :/
<Hobbsee> repackage it without the debian dir, and copy the debian dir somewhere else to add later.
<Adri2000> yep
<Hobbsee> seeing as you wont get a diff.gz if there's no diff :P
<StevenK> There should always be a diff.gz if the package isn't native.
<StevenK> Since it usually contains only the contents of debian/
<Hobbsee> StevenK: except when they're using upstream's debian/
<StevenK> I tend to avoid those sorts of projects.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.
<Adri2000> anyway I will ask upstream to not do that again in the next release
<Chandy> hi
<Chandy> How do I get the list of dependent packages for the package Iam listing in a file or giving as an input
<geser> pygi: yes, but the md5sum of the repackaged orig.tar.gz will be different from those tar.gz shipped by upstream
<bhale> I am at my parents house for the weekend, cleaning up old crap
<bhale> I just found a CD labeled Ubuntu Warty RC
<bhale> that might be my oldest existing copy
<bhale> an inch of dust on it
<pygi> geser: doesn't matter too much
<giskard> bhale, hello
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<vil> sorry, wrong window
<bhale> hi giskard
<crimsun> sivang: yessir
<Adri2000> is it safe to remove an uid from a gpg key and readd it (to change the comment)?
<Adri2000> I don't want to break it :s
<geser> Adri2000: once it is on a keyserver you can't change anything, only add
<Adri2000> geser: I can't change an uid?
<Adri2000> but I can remove it?
<geser> you can remove it on your own copy but not on the one on the keyservers
<Adri2000> ah :/
<geser> keyservers don't do any authentications, they only merge new key data to the one they have
<Adri2000> on if it's the same uid, only the comment changes
<Adri2000> s/on/and/
<Adri2000> well, is it possible to have two same uids with different comments?
<geser> I don't know
<Adri2000> ok
<PriceChild> ping: imbrandon
<pygi> PriceChild, anything I could hep with?
<PriceChild> uuu hello :)
<PriceChild> yeah... remember hte package i was working on yday?
<PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3467
<PriceChild> pygi: ?
<pygi> PriceChild, yes ?:)
<pygi> I remember the package, yes
<PriceChild> Could you help with the problem outilned in the package upload there?
<pygi> the thingy with rules?
<PriceChild> yeah
<PriceChild> :)
<pygi> PriceChild, ergh, dont wanna give wrong advices on that since  Hob' already suggested something I think
<pygi> perhaps I just misunderstood
<PriceChild> he he ok no problem :)
<PriceChild> I'll just wait for her to come on this evening hopefully :)
<PriceChild> Thanks for looking
<pygi> no worries ^_^
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: you just need to incude /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make in your debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga> no need to redefine the already written patch/unpatch rules
<minghua> Run a pbuilder build with hard drive DMA turned off is a VERY bad idea :-(
<PriceChild> yay thanks for looking :) Gloubiboulga :)
<PriceChild> now to understand what you mean... :) - first timer ;)
<pygi> PriceChild, is this cdbs stuff?
<PriceChild> No
<PriceChild> $ cat /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<PriceChild> cat: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make: No such file or directory
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: sudo apt-get install dpatch :)
<PriceChild> there was no "real" source.... it had a debian tree in already
<PriceChild> ty Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> np
<PriceChild> ok so that file is now there Gloubiboulga.... Do you mean i have to just append all that text to the bottom of my rules file?
<minghua> PriceChild: you also want to point people to your new upload, the upid=3468 one
<PriceChild> ok sorry
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: just add "include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make" in your debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga> and don't forget to call patch and unpatch
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: just like that: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32576/ ?
<PriceChild> he he you've lost me now...
<PriceChild> so "patch:"
<PriceChild> before
<PriceChild> and "unpatch:" after?
<PriceChild> wait no...
<Gloubiboulga> ligne 18 : "configure: patch configure-stamp"
<Gloubiboulga> and 36 : clean: unpatch
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32577/ better?
<Gloubiboulga> I'd put the include at the beginning of the file, and you can remove everything from lign 91 to the end of file
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32579/
<Gloubiboulga> yep, it looks better :)
<PriceChild> So do you think that's good enough to reupload?
<Gloubiboulga> sure
<Gloubiboulga> you can remove all the useless commented lines though
<PriceChild> he he ok
<PriceChild> will do that
<PriceChild> shall i leave the extra spaces between lines?
<PriceChild> hmm will leave those
<PriceChild> easier to read and check...
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32580/
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: it looks ok
<PriceChild> Thanks :)
<PriceChild> argh....
<PriceChild> its causing debuild to fail now :(
<Gloubiboulga> ah
<PriceChild> debian/rules:20: *** missing separator (did you mean TAB instead of 8 spaces?).
<PriceChild> guess that means line 20...
<Gloubiboulga> did you add dpatch to the build-deps ?
<pygi> PriceChild, also dpatch to build-deps
<PriceChild> ah nope
<PriceChild> he he :)
<PriceChild> same error...
<PriceChild> i added dpatch as a dep in control
<pygi> PriceChild, but you don't have separator in rules :p
<pygi> read error :)
<Gloubiboulga> replace the 8 spaces with a tab at the beginning of the line
<joejaxx> hello everyone
<PriceChild> ah ok
<PriceChild> it meant what it said :P
<pygi> hey joejaxx
<Gloubiboulga> hello joejaxx
<PriceChild> argh...
<PriceChild> i bet pastebin has changed all the tabs to 8 spaces hasn't it...
<Gloubiboulga> yep, pastebin does this :)
<PriceChild> I'll redo the entire thing again on my own to make sure its fine
<PriceChild> ok new proble,
<PriceChild> dpkg-source: warning: can't parse dependency dpatch
<chillywilly> by the power of greyskull...
<PriceChild> sorted
<PriceChild> forgot a comma
<PriceChild> yay done :)
<PriceChild> uploading
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, could I grab you for a sec?
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: sure
<PriceChild> Thanks so much guys :)
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=3058&upid2=3472
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, feel free to advocate ^_^
<minghua> PriceChild, Gloubiboulgawhy are you guys playing with patch/unpatch in debian/rules when there is nothing to patch (at least I don't see it)?
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: the url seems wrong
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, ehm, oki, sec
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3472
<Gloubiboulga> minghua: I only looked the debian/rules
<pygi> this one :)
<PriceChild> minghua: someone else mentioned that the other day.... I'm not compeltely sure, I've just been following Hobbsee's guidance and she said to do this :S
<pygi> minghua, there is really nothing to patch, right :)
<Gloubiboulga> ah, brasero :)
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, yes, what's wrong with it ?:)
<PriceChild> So what should i do with the rules file?
<pygi> wanted to upload directly, but oh well, let's be polite ^_^
<minghua> pygi: isn't brasero already in archive (I remember seeing it the other day)?
<pygi> minghua, it is, it was my upload :)
<pygi> minghua, new upstream release
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: nothing, it seems to be the new burning star :)
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, do you know what we'll have in new release? :)
<pygi> complete dvd video copy feature, even if encrypted
<minghua> pygi: I see
<pygi> plugin-azed backends, new libburn support, etc, etc
<Gloubiboulga> nice
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, also we are dropping n-c-b support since it sucks :P
<pygi> and writing our own library for certain stuff
<Gloubiboulga> remove the gnome libs and I'll use it :p
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, want me to be honest?
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, that is in our plans ^_^
<pygi> currently, biggest problem is gnome-vfs since it's rooted deeply into the code
<pygi> we'll start modularizing code
<Gloubiboulga> I'm glad to read this !
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, and once libburn is able to burn dvd's, it'll drop cdrecord for good :)))
<Gloubiboulga> we have xfburn in xubuntu, it's still really joung
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, I know about xfburn...using it for testing
* pygi is the burning guy
<Gloubiboulga> it still have some annoying bugs
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, I know, that's why I'm here to fix :P
<Gloubiboulga> it always crashes after blanking a cdrw
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, my blog posts and #ubuntu-burning prove it :)
<PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3473 - uploaded
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: I know who I have to ping for burning problems then
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, always ^_^
<PriceChild> So about the debian/rules file... we don't need it?
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: there's no orig.tar.gz uploaded on revu
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, read from the bottom
<pygi> G0SUB, ergh, really?
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, urgh, really?
<Gloubiboulga> pygi: don't forget the -sa when building the source package
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, yes, that's what I forgot :)
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, sorry, lemme fix :)
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: you need the debian/rules, but not all the patch stuff, since there's nothing to patch
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, uploading
<pygi> minghua: you are also free to advocate...
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, according to dput, all is up
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<pygi> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi pygi
<Gloubiboulga> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> heya Gloubiboulga
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: long time no see :)
<Toadstool> how is it going?
<minghua> pygi: trying to find my REVU password :-P
<Gloubiboulga> Toadstool: fine, and you ?
<pygi> minghua, oki, thank you :)
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: i'm alright
<Mez> pygi: what we advocating?
<pygi> Mez, new brasero upload =)
<pygi> Mez, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3472
* Gloubiboulga builds brasero
<Mez> pygi: thought you wanted me to sponsor?
<pygi> Mez, well, yes, but had to be sure it works ... aka REVU, no?
<Mez> pygi: but you didnt even poke me
* pygi is stressed about why .orig.tar.gz isn't up yet :(
<pygi> Mez, I know, you wasn't here :-/
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: I have to leave in ~10 minutes, I'll review your package tomorrow if nobody does it before
<pygi> Mez, sorry :-/
<PriceChild> ok thanks :)
<PriceChild> enjoy your day
<pygi> Mez, you are still free to sponsor, the package works as advertised ^_^
<Mez> minghua, try to login
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: thanks :)
<Mez> if it doesnt work it gives you a link to retrieve
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: i'm not sure which patch lines to remove...
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: the include line + patch and unpatch
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: and the dpatch build dependency
<PriceChild> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32585/ - should i also remove the patch unpatch on the last line?
<minghua> Mez: I know the procedure, thanks.  I just need to find the recovered-and-encrypted password on my computer :-)
<Mez> lol - :D
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: yep
<ajmitch> morning
<bhale> hi ajmitch
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32587/ - i think that's finished then? :)
* PriceChild dances around still wearing LaserJock's doc hat
<LaserJock> hmmm
<minghua> pygi: you want to look at upload 3474
<minghua> morning ajmitch and LaserJock
* LaserJock is worried now
<pygi> minghua, will do
<pygi> minghua, well, I'm there already :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's ok, as one of the MOTU trinity you'll still have plenty to do :)
<minghua> pygi: I was talking about "* pygi is stressed about why .orig.tar.gz isn't up yet :(" :-)
<ajmitch> yay, another bddebian!
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: I have to go, upload your package on REVU, I'll check tomorrow
<PriceChild> thanks :)
<PriceChild> enjoy yourself
<pygi> minghua, I know :P
<Mez> pygi: if you want to upload the orig.tar.gz - debuild -S -sa
<Mez> not debuild -S -a
<pygi> Mez, I know =)
<pygi> just made a mistake =)
<Mez> s/-a//
<LaserJock> yikes, I just sent an email to -devel, hopefully I won't be kicked out
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> uh oh
<Mez> LaserJock, what have you done noe ?
* LaserJock might be in the MOTU trinity but still fears the wrath of the mighty Dennis ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: apt-cache -i unmet..
<ajmitch> without the -i, it takes recommends & suggests as well
<LaserJock> darn, I wondered about that
<LaserJock> that looks better
<LaserJock> so 103 and 183 for edgy and sid
<ajmitch> compare edgy & etch
<ajmitch> for a fair comparison
<ajmitch> since sid never releases
<LaserJock> well, that's the thing
<LaserJock> that's why I said it was maybe a bad comparision
<LaserJock> I hate directly comparing them
<bhale> man i cant keep up with the motu trinity anymore
<LaserJock> bah, who made up this trinity thing?
<bhale>  * LaserJock might be in the MOTU trinity but still fears the wrath of the
<bhale>           mighty Dennis ;-)
<bhale> we made it up a year or so ago to approve UVF
<bhale> tired of waiting on mdz
<ajmitch> bhale: showing your age
<bhale> ajmitch: i found a warty RC this morning
<ajmitch> "back in my day"..
<bhale> with a ton of dust on it
<ajmitch> yeah, you make me feel young
<LaserJock> well, I'm not in the MOTU trinity then
<Mez> siretart, ping
<bhale> LaserJock: neither am I
<ajmitch> since I didn't get into it until just after warty release
<bhale> it is only for super heros
* LaserJock high-fives bhale 
<pygi> Gloubiboulga, you managed to advocate? :P
<PriceChild> minghua: regarding the debian/bts what should I do with that?
<minghua> PriceChild: I think you should get rid of it and don't install it in debian/rules
<PriceChild> ok
<PriceChild> ty
<PriceChild> I can't see where its installed in debian/rules...
<minghua> look harder...
<PriceChild> heh e :)
<pygi> minghua, found pass? :P
<minghua> "cp debian/bts debian/xvidcap/usr/share/bug/xvidcap/control"
<minghua> pygi: yep.  did you upload a new package?
<pygi> minghua, it should appear in a bit ^_^
<minghua> pygi: ping me when it appears
<pygi> will do
<PriceChild> thanks minghua :)
<minghua> PriceChild: in my humble opinion you should reading packaging guides a bit more before doing real packaging
<PriceChild> minghua: i agree :)
<PriceChild> sorry for being a nuisance  :)
<LaserJock> you're not a nuisance
<PriceChild> Its just that the ubuntu packaging guides don't really apply to this package
<pygi> PriceChild, debian new maintainer guide
<PriceChild> that doesn't either really
<PriceChild> i've read that
<PriceChild> xvidcap is released with a debian dir
<PriceChild> and Hobbsee decided that it was probably best to just edit what was there instead of making it all again
<LaserJock> PriceChild: well, since you have my doc hat on, why don't you send me a list of things that weren't addressed in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide ;-)
<pygi> minghua, ping :)
<PriceChild> and also made a proper orig tar by just removing the debian dir and things which you don't normally do
<Mez> would a build dep (<< 0.2.4 >> 0.2.1) be valid?
<PriceChild> LaserJock: he he :) I don't think it would be too helpful... don't think anyone else packages their source like this guy :)
<azeem> Mez: I tink you can add a package twice to B-D, with different version info
<azeem> think, even
* PriceChild throws the doc hat into the air as a frisbee, landing it perfectly atop LaserJock
<Mez> azeem, i think that too - but dont reust myself ;)
<LaserJock> PriceChild: well, if you do think something should be addressed let me know
<Mez> anyone who KNOWs?
<PriceChild> will do :)
<minghua> PriceChild: asking is okay, and I appreciate your eagerness to help.  it's just sometimes you should try finding the answer yourself before asking
<PriceChild> he he yeah
<PriceChild> i could definately have found that last one if i'd looked hard enough
<PriceChild> I completely understand what you're saying
<PriceChild> I'm a mod on ubuntuforums.org believe it or not... and you have to be so patient with people who don't read the sticky entitled "read this to play your mp3s" and just post a new thread saying they don't work lol
<PriceChild> Promise i'll try harder :)
<Mez> PriceChild, thats the right attitude :D
<minghua> PriceChild: try reading Debian Developer's Reference when Ubuntu packaging guide and Debian new maintainer guide are not enough
<PriceChild> ok cool
<PriceChild> will go find that now
<minghua> PriceChild: in your particular case http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz
<PriceChild> he he... what happenned to working it out myself? ;)
<minghua> pygi: I am going to look at brasero now :-)
<LaserJock> well, not necessarily working it out yourself, but knowing and using resources ;-)
<pygi> minghua, thanks, but I have another upload
<minghua> PriceChild: IMO asking what to read is okay, asking what to do (for simple things) is not :-)
<PriceChild> he he yeah
<PriceChild> uuu i've noticed i haven't mentioned in my new orig.tar.gz how i made it... by removing the debian dir
<minghua> pygi: so... I should wait for your next ping?
<pygi> minghua, yes, sorry ^_^ Nothing important tho, just dropping one dep that is not needed
* minghua wonders who he should ask help from :-(
<pygi> minghua, what help do you need?
<Mez> pygi, psychiatric
<Mez> minghua, :P
<minghua> pygi: it's off-topic here. :-P  But since I doubt I can get help in #ubuntu{,+1} -- I need to figure out how to enable IDE hard drive's DMA when I am dropped into an initramfs shell
<pygi> Mez, lol :)
<minghua> maybe I should just ask ajmitch how he hand-holds his feisty system to boot :-)
<PriceChild> I know how to enable DMA....
<PriceChild> i did....
<PriceChild> erm
* PriceChild thinks
<minghua> ajmitch: I was just running local-top/lvm in the initramfs shell, anything else I need to do before exit?
<minghua> scripts/local-top/lvm actually
* LaserJock is glad he doesn't us LVM/Raid
* minghua is glad he dual-boots Ubuntu and Debian :-P
<pygi> minghua, ok, now =)
<minghua> pygi: I remember you said some package had bad debian packaging, is that brasero?
<pygi> minghua, yes, debian packaging sucks very much =)
<pygi> still testing the package, I wanna make sure we have the best brasero package ever built
* pygi works closely with upstream and was even listed as an author in some version (0.4.4 probably)
<pygi> minghua, IMHO don't advocate package, one glitch went throught
* pygi bugs as usual
<minghua> pygi: sure, when you feel ready.  I am just building the package now
<pygi> minghua, you won't be able to build it ^_^
<pygi> minghua, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/brasero-0611181515/brasero_0.5.1-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<minghua> oh.  so you are fixing it?
<pygi> minghua, yep, just pushed and checking localy
<pygi> minghua, trivial bug, slipped throught by accident
<jekil> hi
<pygi> hello jekil
<pygi> minghua, ok, now it's really really ready
<pygi> minghua, even I would advocate it ^_^
<minghua> pygi: so you've tried building it locally? :-)
<pygi> minghua, yup
<pygi> minghua, anything good happened? :)
<minghua> pygi: sorry, still struggling setting up a feisty pbuilder
<pygi> oh,oki
<minghua> pygi: the package looks good to me though
<minghua> give me some time :-)
<pygi> will do ^_^
<vil> pygi: hi
<minghua> apparently upgrading a sid pbuilder to a feisty one is a bad bad idea
<pygi> hey vil :)
<pygi> minghua, lol, right
<pygi> vil, how are you?:)
* minghua decides to do things right and set up multi-pbuilder properly
* minghua heads to the wiki
<vil> pygi: fine. just enjoying weekend
<vil> pygi: what about you?
<pygi> vil, nice, doing some packaging right now ^_^
<vil> pygi, what kind of package? burning I guess
<pygi> vil, indeed :)
<pygi> vil, I have some others things to package once I finish with this one
<vil> pygi, what is it specificaly? just curious
<pygi> vil, to name one, "gimmix"
* pygi will brb
<minghua> Hmm, brasero has some really long compiling options
* minghua wonders what it needs gnome-keyring for
<Simon80> is it normal for uupdate to use <upstream-version>-1 as the version
<Simon80> ?
<pygi> minghua: ^_^
<minghua> Simon80: yes, that's normal for Debian
<Simon80> but if I wanna make an ubuntu package, that's fine? what do I do?
<minghua> Simon80: in ubuntu you have you change that to -0ubuntu1 by hand (or, if you prefer, patch uupdate :-)
<Simon80> though I'm not actually targeting this for upload, it's cvs head
<Simon80> ah, ok
<Simon80> problem solved, haha
<minghua> pygi: it builds here :-)
<Simon80> why 0-ubuntu1?
<Simon80> ohhh, not in debian
<pygi> minghua: I know ^_^
<Simon80> cause existing packages don't look like that
<Simon80> so that's just in the changelog, right?
<pygi> minghua: finally, Brasero which doesn't use cdrecord will hit archives ^_^
<minghua> pygi: two questions:
<pygi> minghua: shoot
<minghua> pygi: 1. a tiny thing -- is debian/brasero.dirs really necessary?
<pygi> minghua: probably not
<minghua> pygi: 2. your versioned dependency in debian/control is pretty tight, but the upstream README only requires GNOME >=2.14 for example, are those versions really necessary?
<pygi> minghua: my deps are correct ^_^
<pygi> minghua: I talk with upstream every day, and as I said ... I helped to develop Brasero :)
<pygi> minghua: let's call README outdated^_^
<minghua> pygi: cool, I'll advocate then
<pygi> thank you ^_^
<minghua> pygi: yeah, poke upstream to update README :-)
<pygi> hehe :)
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
* Fujitsu is severely unenthused.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: For merging, thats a shame
<TheMuso> :)
<crimsun> Adri2000: I presume you've regression-tested 72370?
<Adri2000> crimsun: heeuuu, no, I haven't particularly tested
<minghua> hello Fujitsu
<pygi> crimsun: since you are here, you could advocate ^_^
<crimsun> Adri2000: erm...I feel really uncomfortable uploading a merged source package that hasn't been tested.
<Fujitsu> Darn, no Hobbsee around... I need to borrow her long pointy stick of DOOM and nastily injure somebody with it... That somebody decided they needed to repartition one of the computers at school (with actual data on it), and obliterated the primary LVM PV on it.
<crimsun> Adri2000: please test it [and/or have someone verify your merged source works correctly]  and note as much in the bug :)
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
<minghua> Hmm, now that I'm thinking about it, does pygi still need two advocates since brasero is already in archive?
<crimsun> if a package is already in the archive, newer source just needs to be thrown at upload.uc
* pygi shoots himself in the leg ^_^
<minghua> pygi: fix the debian/brasero.dirs and I can sponsor your upload if I am still here ;-)
<Adri2000> crimsun: I can't really test because I haven't a pppoe connection with a modem on this computer, but I can try some things to see if it works. but also I rely on the debian package/maintainer :p
<pygi> minghua:you mean just remove it? :P
<minghua> pygi: (and you don't need to upload to REVU, just point me the source packages)
<minghua> pygi: remove and _test_build_ :-)
<crimsun> Adri2000: right
<pygi> minghua: nah, who needs testing ^_^
<crimsun> certainly not non-free packages!
* crimsun coughs and ducks
<pygi> hehe :)
<pygi> will brb, gotta convert to laptop
<Fujitsu> Speaking of non-free packages...
<imbrandon> moins all
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<Fujitsu> crimsun, what are you on? If we have a proper Flash 9 in the archive, we can't as easily reject all the bugs!
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yeah, I was 'fraid of that, too
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: horatio is down for a few hours right now for some hardware swapping if you dident notice
<Fujitsu> crimsun: :/
<crimsun> I just wanted to prevent people from using imbrandon's debs =)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: OK, I haven't had cause to use it much lately, due to work :(
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: no worries, just wanted to let you know, the more users i'm getting on there i need to find a way to notify everyone, maybe i'll work on that later
<imbrandon> crimsun: ??
<crimsun> imbrandon: Flash 9
<imbrandon> i never gave my flash 9 debs out ( to anyone but those in here )
<imbrandon> no Seveas on the other hand, he did
<imbrandon> and does , etc
<imbrandon> s/no/now
<crimsun> it's not a ding against yours or his
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i know :)
<Seveas> imbrandon, I;m having problems with one mirror -- once that's solved I will no longer
<crimsun> it's simply preventive maintenance
<imbrandon> crimsun: true
<imbrandon> Seveas: my mirror ?
<Seveas> crimsun, are there plans to backport flash9 to edgy/dapper?
<imbrandon> or another one?
<Seveas> imbrandon, no
<Seveas> the playboymansion one
<crimsun> Seveas: I've asked jdong to look at feisty's current source package, and it's in his queue according to -devel backlog
<Seveas> ok
<imbrandon> ohh Fujitsu do you have the source for your upstream packages? lastnode wanted me to look them over and sponsor them ( or you can too i guess since your a MOTU :P ) into the feisty archive
<imbrandon> crimsun: what did you do? bump the version or something? ( sorry i'm just catching up for the day )
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: They're at http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/upstream, as mentioned on the Upstream wiki (I believe).
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but iirc its just the binarys not the source and dsc etc
<crimsun> imbrandon: used an epoch, created the source package with checkinstall, broke all sorts of lintian checks, yanno
<Fujitsu> I'd like somebody else to look over them, of course.
<imbrandon> i'll look again
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: /edgy is the binaries.
<imbrandon> crimsun: hahaha right on
<crimsun> imbrandon: (in reality) merged w/ sid's
<Fujitsu> I think there are a couple of things I need to fix up in that, actually..
* Fujitsu looks.
<imbrandon> oh slick, :)
<crimsun> had to increase the delta to deal with our previous attempts to cope with esd and stuff
<crimsun> otherwise it's fairly innocuous
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: no worries, i'm not in a hurry, he just asked me a few days ago, i told him i would once i had spoke with you since you made the packages
<imbrandon> crimsun: ahh
<crimsun> you fellers got a nod in the changelog, too
<crimsun> crazy pills
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> purple and yellow ones ? hehe
<crimsun> The "blue/purple/polka dot pills" release.
<imbrandon> rock on :)
<pygi> minghua, uploading
<imbrandon> man i took the "night off" last night and went to the casino with my little brother, man i'm feeling it today
<imbrandon> heh probably should have came home a few hours sooner
<imbrandon> good thing is though i walked out with exactly what i walked in with ( only took $20 , yea i'm cheap )
<pygi> minghua, k,uploaded to REVU
<pygi> minghua, now you should just wait :)
<TheMuso> imbrandoimBetter to paly it safe than to loose too much
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Better to paly it safe than to lose to much.
<imbrandon> true, i just go for fun when i do go, figure even if i loose $20 its worth the night out
<imbrandon> :)
<Adri2000> crimsun: I have an issue with pppoeconf: the dialogs are really not enough large, you can't read the text, but it's not a regression, it's the same with the edgy package, I don't know if it's don't know if it's only on my system or not, could you test?
<TheMuso> gah my typing
<imbrandon> heh
<crimsun> Adri2000: unfortunately I'm nowhere near a machine capable of testing
<Adri2000> s/it's don't know//
<Adri2000> someone else could? :)
<pygi> Adri2000, pppoeconf always had problems
<pygi> Adri2000, ping Zomb (aka Eduard Bloch), hehe :)
<Fujitsu> Anybody here have any idea on how I can specify extra paths in the Python module search path thingy?
<Adri2000> pygi: he's not the maintainer anymore
<pygi> Adri2000, oh,who is it then?
<Adri2000> reg, I have already pinged him :)
<Adri2000> you can find him on #debian-fr
<imbrandon> welp since horatio is down, good time to wipe the lappy and get a fresh install going, bbiab
<minghua> Fujitsu: you mean sys.path.append()?
<Adri2000> pygi: maybe Zomb orphaned pppoeconf because it always have problems :
<pygi> Adri2000, I stand no comment ^_^
<Adri2000> :-)
<Adri2000> I will wait reg's answer about that
<Adri2000> something else: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/djplay/djplay_0.4.1-0ubuntu1.buildlog everything works with this package, but the build log is strange at the end, with dpkg-source
<pygi> minghua, you alive  ? :)
<minghua> pygi: yes
<minghua> pygi: looking at your new package now
<pygi> minghua, oki, just so you know I pushed ^_^
<pygi> oki
<minghua> pygi: bare with me as this is probably the first time I sponsor an upload
<minghua> (uploading from Debian, no less)
<pygi> minghua, I haven't said nothing =)
<pygi> minghua, I won't bug you anymore once I get someone to sign my keys
<crimsun> "I reserve the right to bug you even after I get someone to sign my keys" =)
<pygi> crimsun, why  that ? :)
<pygi> well, ok, I'll bug about some things ... but not about sponsoring uploads...
<pygi> crimsun, I could toss so much bugs your way for main inclusion for example ...
* pygi has a box full of cd-recording related patches
<imbrandon> hrm how is it that you split a screen again ?
<pygi> lol, not bugs, bug patches ^_^
<imbrandon> screen as in the program
<crimsun> pygi: thanks for the bugs ;)
<pygi> crimsun, I meant patches, patches dude :))))
<crimsun> =)
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> ^a S
<imbrandon> ahh right, thanks
<pygi> crimsun, bare with me, I'm not sleeping at all :P
<imbrandon> upercase S threw me
<pygi> writing cdrtools replacement is tiresome :)
<crimsun> I'd imagine so
<pygi> especially without specifications :)
<pygi> crimsun, o btw. perhaps you know ... is it possible for example that I send a gpg signed copy of my drivers licence, or something instead of getting my keys signed?
<pygi> it's almost a impossible task for me atm :-/
<pygi> and I've been hanging like that since ubuntu beginnings
<ivoks> urgh...
<pygi> ivoks, well, it is :)
<ivoks> pygi: you just need to get to zagreb one day or call me when you get
<crimsun> pygi: it's really up to whomever you're asking to sign your key
<minghua> Hmm, dput won't let me upload if I don't have pygi's public key
<minghua> good dput
<pygi> minghua, so get my public key ^_^
<imbrandon> minghua: no if your sponsoring it, you sign the .changes and upload
<minghua> imbrandon: I kept pygi's signature on the .dsc file.  Is that wrong?
<imbrandon> ( even if his name is in the changelog )
<minghua> the .changes is of course signed by me
<imbrandon> yes, you need to sign it to be able for it to be accepted
<crimsun> aww, stephan lost his hair
<pygi> minghua, just sign dsc with your key
<imbrandon> minghua: e.g. you need to debuild -S -sa -kyourkkey
<ivoks> minghua: dpkg-buildpackage -S -k[your key ID] 
<pygi> I think :)
<ivoks> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> :)
<pygi> ivoks, he needs to -sa :)))
<ivoks> pygi: depends on package
<pygi> I know , but oh well :p
<minghua> apparently I can't dpkg-buildpackage/debuild as I am in Debian now :-)  (I tested building in a chroot)
<crimsun> whoa, jono has a CoB tee
<minghua> I believe I am doing okay, I just need to fetch pygi's pub key
<minghua> let's see
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-19
<Adri2000> the debuild test of revu-report doesn't list the binary files?
<imbrandon> think about it like this, if it was signed with his key , why couldent he just upload it :)
<imbrandon> minghua: ^
<pygi> I don't have the powers ^_^
<imbrandon> anyhow bbiab
<crimsun> man, this report in #ubuntu just makes me have even warmer and fuzzier feelings for checkinstall
<pygi> vil, poke
<crimsun> (checkinstalled alsa-driver, which of course blows away linux-sound-base and alsa-base's configuration)
<minghua> pygi: uploaded (with .dsc signed by you)
<minghua> to everyone helped: thanks.  I know I can sign the .dsc myself, I wanted to play with this a little :-)
<pygi> minghua, thanks
<imbrandon> minghua: right but the archive will reject it, check your email
<imbrandon> otherwise he could have just uploaded it
<crimsun> I'm not even sure it will be a reject, tbh, though I don't know how closely katie resembles soyuz these days
<imbrandon> true , it might just silently die
<pygi> minghua, ehm :p
<imbrandon> anyhow , back to reloading the laptop
<Fujitsu> minghua: Is that the best way? That's how my package does it now, I was wondering if there is a better day.
<Fujitsu> *way
<pygi> minghua, seems like you have to sign and reupload ^)^
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: It should just silently die.
<minghua> Fujitsu: which way are you asking about?  the "keep the .dsc signature and sign .changes only" way?
<Fujitsu> minghua: sys.path.append().l
<Fujitsu> -l
<minghua> oh
<minghua> Fujitsu: I always use that, I know it's quite hackish
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
<Fujitsu> It works, but is hackish.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I don't know any others though.  You see, I am just a beginner in python
<minghua> pygi, imbrandon, crimsun:  it seems soyuz is happy with the package
<LaserJock> Fujitsu!
<minghua> s/package/upload/
<Fujitsu> LaserJock!
<crimsun> minghua: excellent
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I wanted to ask you about gnucash
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Go ahead, although I know little/nothing about it...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I see in the changelog you did a libgoffice-1-2 -> libgoffice-0-3
<Fujitsu> Or did I merge it at some point?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: have you tracked that at all?
<LaserJock> I'm guessing no
<Fujitsu> Not at all.
<LaserJock> I'm looking up apps that dep on libgoffice
<LaserJock> and seeing how the transition went
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Well, it doesn't seem to have exploded stuff.
<LaserJock> it looks like gnumeric, gnucash, and gchemutils are the 3 packages that dep on it
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to just see if I can get gchemutils to work with it
<Fujitsu> Yeah...
<LaserJock> dang, etch has no unmet deps :/
<Fujitsu> None at all ?
<LaserJock> if you take out suggests and recommends (i.e. apt-cache -i unmet as ajmitch told me)
<LaserJock> how did they do that
<Fujitsu> Magic!
<LaserJock> unstable has more unmet then edgy
<Fujitsu> (where magic is achieved by removing all the packages with unmetdeps)
<LaserJock> really?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<LaserJock> ah
<Fujitsu> If you look at the logs for packages which we have with unmet deps, it'll say they're removed from testing.
<LaserJock> that's right, they do that kind of thing
<LaserJock> iiiinnnteresting
<Fujitsu> What?
<LaserJock> I hadn't thought of that way of "handling" problems like that
<Fujitsu> I think it's not a bad idea...
<Fujitsu> I also think that I need to find an archive admin.
<Fujitsu> I've had a gcl upload sitting in dapper-proposed since half-way through UDS... :/
<Fujitsu> Oops, dapper-proposed's unapproved queue.
<LaserJock> oh dang, that's right
<LaserJock> we were wondering what happened to that SRU
<crimsun> Fujitsu: I'm going to wait another week before I ping 'em
<Fujitsu> I haven't seen an archive admins since I uploaded it, so it's still unapproved :/
<crimsun> it seems to have been a really hectic two weeks
<LaserJock> this is ridiculous
<Fujitsu> Where hectic == no archive admins around.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's only been two months since I isolated the patch!
<LaserJock> 2 months!
<crimsun> hopefully they've not been eaten by grues.
<secretlondon> i presume its the summit followed the canonical meeting
<crimsun> indeed
<Fujitsu> secretlondon: Yes, which was a really silly idea.
<Fujitsu> Because it means we have no important people for two weeks.
<LaserJock> well, silly on or end ;-)
<secretlondon> Fujitsu: well I presume it was cheaper as they were already in california
<Fujitsu> secretlondon: True.
<LaserJock> well, considering that maxima has be broken for 6 months+ in Dapper I guess people won't mind another week or two
* secretlondon wonders if cinepaint will ever end up in edgy
<LaserJock> but I'm guessing we lost some scientific users over it which is sad
<secretlondon> LaserJock: they may still be using Breezy
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> I know they made a wiki page on how to build maxima from source
<secretlondon> it still doesn't look very good though
<LaserJock> so at least some were willing to stick with us
* Fujitsu did consider putting some binary .debs up somewhere for easy download... But by that time it looked like it would be in -updates within a few days. That never eventuated, of course.
<Simon80> what's cinepaint?
<secretlondon> cinepaint = film gimp as was
<secretlondon> 32 bit paint program developed by film studios
<Fujitsu> It's all been very good timing, I think. We have the SRU policy ratified, and the following two weeks have nobody to actually let them into -proposed.
<Fujitsu> I bet this change will get rejected by whoever I ask to approve it, too.
<LaserJock> yeah know, it wouldn't be so bad if they had told us beforehand that the archive admins would be out
<crimsun> secretlondon: yes, it's being worked on by #ubuntustudio
<secretlondon> well they should have a backup plan so everything doesn't just stop
<crimsun> secretlondon: perhaps _MMA_ can comment on cinepaint?
<Fujitsu> Keybuk has appeared a couple of times lately, but not when I've been around :(
<secretlondon> crimsun: no idea, Hobbsee has done the actual merge
<pygi> what a connection lol
<pygi> minghua, all done ok? :P
<geser> are uploads to dapper-updates processed or are they still sitting in the unapproved queue?
<Fujitsu> geser: I've seen naught but backports to Dapper in quite some time.
<Fujitsu> Ah, a -proposed dpkg a month ago...
<geser> I'm waiting for an upload to dapper-updates (uploaded by crimsun on 17-Sep) to be approved
<secretlondon> :(
<Fujitsu> Two months? That's excessive... Has an archive admin been asked to let it in?
<minghua> ah, pygi left
<crimsun> geser: hmm, that may need to go through the new SRU policy
<crimsun> geser: let's check next week, and if need be, we can retarget it for dapper-proposed
<Fujitsu> When does Canonical's AllHands thing finish?
<crimsun> whenever they run out of beer?
<secretlondon> something on the planet saying but dodn't take note of when
<LaserJock> I think they are flying back todayish
<imbrandon> yea today was the last day iirc
<Fujitsu> :O
<imbrandon> heya geser and secretlondon
<imbrandon> and LaserJock
<Fujitsu> So, I might actually get gcl and co. into dapper-proposed in the next year. That will be incredible.
<secretlondon> hi imbrandon
* secretlondon congratulates Fujitsu on his luck
<geser> hi imbrandon
<LaserJock> I can't find any info on any of these on LP
<Fujitsu> Any of which, LaserJock?
<LaserJock> any -proposed or -updates
<Fujitsu> Unapproved stuff won't appear.
<LaserJock> I was wondering if it was possible to at least "see" the backup
<Fujitsu> And I'm not sure about -proposed.
<LaserJock> well, we can see unapproved stuff for NEW
<Fujitsu> They have explicitly hidden the unapproved queue, nobody seems to know why.
<Fujitsu> That's not unapproved. That's NEW.
<LaserJock> right
<Fujitsu> UNAPPROVED is different, and explicitly hidden from public view.
<LaserJock> but the idea is the same
<imbrandon> because of - security most likely
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Soyuz doesn't do security yet.
<LaserJock> we *should* be able to see this stuff
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Of course. This is LP, though.
<geser> even if you get the URL and don't have the permissision you see nothing
<Fujitsu> Stupid Forbidden when I try to access it.
<LaserJock> hmm
<Fujitsu> I suppose core-devs can access it, they can access other stuff because they're set as the drivers.
<LaserJock> imbrandon? ^^
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, of course.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Can you access https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=?
<Fujitsu> It'd be interesting to see what has collected in there.
* minghua uploads brasero 0.5.1-0ubuntu2 and points it to pygi
<Fujitsu> As I'm not around during archive admin hours much these days, can I get somebody here to ask one of them to let gcl through next time one is sighted?
<pygi> minghua: what happened with ubuntu1? :P
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well, I think the answer would be, "I'll get to it when I get to it"
* Fujitsu grumbles.
<Fujitsu> Probably.
<Fujitsu> It is /only/ universe, of course. Not at all important.
<minghua> pygi: you said you dropped debian/brasero.dirs in changelog, but what you really dropped is debian/brasero.docs
<pygi> minghua: umh, really?
<Simon80> I'm updating my cvs stepmania package now..
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i cant access it either
* pygi kicks himself
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: OK.
<minghua> pygi: well, your upload is on REVU, check it yourself if you don't believe me :-P
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, maybe we should add maxima to Main, then it wouldn't be /just/ Universe
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hahahah
<pygi> minghua: I believe, I believe. Just can't believe how dumb I can be sometimes :P
<secretlondon> does a package and it's dependency both providing the same file cause breakage?
<imbrandon> secretlondon: yes
<LaserJock> packages should be orthogonal
<secretlondon> imbrandon: thanks, I'll confirm that bug then as I can see that they do
<imbrandon> cd /var/www/
<imbrandon> grr
<Fujitsu> Erk... I just made gcj segfault.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: and that suprises you ? hehe
<Fujitsu> It was an obvious syntactical error in my code, but still...
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you know, I've mostly seen KDE people do that :-)
<LaserJock> something about have konsole *everywhere* I think :-)
<minghua> I assume segfault is more nasty than ICE?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: do what ?
<Fujitsu> minghua: It was an ICE:
<LaserJock> imbrandon: your cd /var/www
<Fujitsu> PatheticAssignment.java:34: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
<imbrandon> ahh hehe
<imbrandon> LaserJock: konsole is the best thing since xterm :)
<imbrandon> too bhad i'm in puTTy atm though
<imbrandon> bad*
<LaserJock> xterm isn't that great
<LaserJock> wterm and aterm were always my favorites
<minghua> Fujitsu: oh.  I didn't know ICE catches segfaults as well
<Fujitsu> It apparently does.
* minghua hasn't seen much ICE before
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure my instructor/lecturer/teacher will really like the name of the main class in this assignment, but it pretty much sums it up.
* minghua sticks with gnome-terminal
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you gonna merge galternatives?
<secretlondon> Fujitsu: We've got a build dep bug on one of yours - matplotlib which seems to be depending on xbase-clients in edgy
<secretlondon> (and not in dapper)
<LaserJock> secretlondon: is it causing problems?
<secretlondon> LaserJock: they say it can't be built in edgy - missing dependency although I haven't got an edgy box to confirm on
<LaserJock> secretlondon: odd, I'll give it a go
<secretlondon> LaserJock: it's bug 72344
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72344 in matplotlib "[Edgy]  Matplotlib has broken build dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72344
<Fujitsu> Built fine on 23 September...
<LaserJock> yeah, I built it too if I remember right
<secretlondon> puc says it should be ok
<Fujitsu> xbase-client still exists...
<Fujitsu> *clients
<geser> is it perhaps because of the missing space before [!s390] ?
<LaserJock> ahh, well it's not actually a FTBS but a apt-get build-dep problem
* secretlondon nods.
<Fujitsu> Thus, not my problem :D
<Fujitsu> geser: Looks like it.
<Fujitsu> That's legal though, AFAIK.
<LaserJock> is it an apt-get bug?
<Fujitsu> It doesn't specify in the policy document that a space is required, it just says it has to follow... I think apt-get is following policy, but other things are being more lenient.
<LaserJock> I suppose we could forward it upstream
<Fujitsu> `it is also conventional to put a single space after each comma, on either side of each vertical bar, and before each open parenthesis.'
<Fujitsu> As long as it's not ambiguous, whitespace isn't required...
<Fujitsu> So it's a bug in apt-get, although matplotlib isn't following recommendations.
<StevenK> It doesn't matter what Policy says, people will screw it up. Hence why I had to rewrite the debian/control parser in Linda 3 or 4 times.
<LaserJock> do we have a doc telling people how to file a backport request
* Fujitsu adds an apt task.
<LaserJock> oh wow, colin actually wrote something on the forums
<LaserJock> this whole "untrusted repo wallpaper" think is really interesting
<secretlondon> do you have a link?
<minghua> yeah, I was talking with Colin and others when he wrote those comments
<minghua> on #ubuntu-devel
<plugwash> LaserJock what exactly is the untrusted repo wallpaper?
<LaserJock> it was on planet a while back
<LaserJock> there was this guy who was giving out a "ultimate sources.list" with like 50 repos
<secretlondon> i read that
<TheMuso> I remember seeing that.
<LaserJock> the owner of one of the 3rd party repos apparently thought it would be good to warn people about the dangers of a 3rd party repo
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Which Colin?
<TheMuso> I personally would rather stick with the official repos.
<LaserJock> so he replaced the wallpaper with a red skull on black background
<LaserJock> freaked a bunch of people on the forums out
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: Colin Watson
<Fujitsu> O_O
<secretlondon> the real problem is with the many people who think they need to install automatix style stuff to play mp3s (of which there are loads and loads)
<Fujitsu> He wrote something on the forums!?
<Fujitsu> Where?
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=297814
<LaserJock> http://soijabanaani.net/tmp/the_trevino_story
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The wallpaper also had stuff on it saying how unofficial repos were bad.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> I'd seen the latter of those some days ago.
<LaserJock> well apparently one of the other repos also messed around with fstab and sudoers at the same time
<LaserJock> so people got the "skull" wallpaper and were locked out of their computers
<LaserJock> awesome timing
<Fujitsu> Oooh.
<Fujitsu> Impressive.
<TheMuso> nasty.
<LaserJock> but then some people say the person who did the wallpaper should be kicked out of the community
<Fujitsu> ion_ did the right thing.
<plugwash> no the person who did the "ultimate sources.list" should be
<Fujitsu> So some package actually stuffed with fstab and sudoers? Maliciously?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> not maliciously
<secretlondon> no-one should be kicked out (except the person making the dodgy package) - our users need educating however
<LaserJock> just stupidly, or something
<LaserJock> well, it certainly freaked people out
<LaserJock> as you can see on the threads
<plugwash> secretlondon lusers who wan't something installed will go to great lengths to do it even doing things they have been explicitly told not to do
* secretlondon is sick of all the bugs that say 'I installed X from someone random and now my system is broken - and oyu have to fix it"
<LaserJock> people were formating their disks
<plugwash> and there isn't much you can do about it
<Fujitsu> ... what possible legitimate reason is there to stuff around with fstab and sudoers?
<secretlondon> you can't tell our users that they shouldn't install experimental software if they don't understand ir
<plugwash> if you make a distro to appeal to lusers you will have lusers doing stupid stuff
<LaserJock> I'm guessing it was unintentional, who knows
<LaserJock> anyway, it's an interesting thing
<secretlondon> they want the newest, untested stuff - but they can't put it right
<TheMuso> That kind of bad quality control is rampent in the Slackware community with third party repos.
<secretlondon> it's fascinating and may make some of them think twice
<TheMuso> i remember trying to use packages, and they were absolutely horrible.
<secretlondon> we have many people using feisty as the newest and shiniest who don't know how to file a bug report
<plugwash> one big problem is that ubutu presumablly can't endorse any repositries that host illegal packages
<plugwash> but using illegal packages is nessacery for a good media experiance on linux
<secretlondon> it's our demographic - if they weren't experimentla they'd still be using windows
<Fujitsu> Grrrrrrreat: `Whoever came up with these bogus packages needs several good swift kicks in the posterior, IMHO!'
<LaserJock> plugwash: no they aren't
<secretlondon> most stuff is in the repos
<LaserJock> I had a look at Automatix the other day
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You sick, sick person.
<LaserJock> I'd guess at least 2/3 of the stuff it was doing 3rd party was already in the repos
<secretlondon> I keep telling people off for suggesting it to newbies
<plugwash> what is the situation on mp3 decoding nowadays?
* Fujitsu applauds secretlondon.
<Fujitsu> plugwash: You need gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, as always.
<secretlondon> plugwash: it's in gstreamer in our repos
<LaserJock> plugwash: sure, in edgy for a while it even offered to install it for me
<secretlondon> Fujitsu: I lurk on the ubuntu live journal communities and they have all installed automatix after being told to in the forums
<plugwash> right, what about wmv?
<Fujitsu> AARRRGHHH.
<Fujitsu> plugwash: w32codecs is necessary, I believe.
* secretlondon undid the advert for automatix which was passing as a wikipedia article
<plugwash> Fujitsu and what is the legal status of that package?
<LaserJock> plugwash: illegal most places I believe
<LaserJock> well, maybe not most
<LaserJock> but quite a few
<Fujitsu> plugwash: Illegal unless you have a Windows license, and illegal in many places anyway, I believe.
* Fujitsu wishes the CC could impose sanctions on the forums to minimise advertising of Automatix.
<plugwash> right so to play one of the most common video formats you need to use an illegal package which ubuntu presumablly cannot endorse
<LaserJock> sure it can
<Fujitsu> plugwash: Of course. Thankyou Microsoft.
<LaserJock> well, depends on endorse
<LaserJock> there are decently trusthworthy repos with that I believe
<Fujitsu> I believe Seveas' has it, for example.
<secretlondon> wikipedia now has the quote from mdz saying it causes breakage
<Seveas> Fujitsu, ?
<imbrandon> it does, and frankly wmv,wma is the only thing you cannot play without it
<Fujitsu> Seveas: Your repo has w32codecs, doesn't it?
<Seveas> it allegedly has
<LaserJock> :-)
<plugwash> LaserJock right, but ubuntu presumablly can't officially reccomend a repositry with an illegal package in
<Seveas> indeed
<Seveas> and I wouldn't want to recommend it anyway
<Seveas> since there is also stuff in there with breaking chances
<secretlondon> its just the w32 package and DeCSS afaik which we can't ship
<imbrandon> why would you recomend something you only need to have to play wmv's with ?
<imbrandon> other playser play the other formats just fine
<LaserJock> imbrandon: some people need wmv support I'd guess :-)
<plugwash> so without using illegal packages ubuntu users can't play dvds or wmv files, its no wonder they turn to dodgy repositries
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> it's not a great situation for sure, it'd be great to say "we can play anything you throw at us" but we can't
<LaserJock> plugwash: they can play dvds
<secretlondon> not encyrpted ones - which are 99%?
<LaserJock> the only thing is MS specific codecs
<LaserJock> secretlondon: I believe you can
<secretlondon> plugwash: but they think they need them for mp3s too
<imbrandon> secretlondon: sure the libdvdread3 packages installes css2
<imbrandon> secretlondon: no, mp3 is played by many other codecs
<LaserJock> mp3s and dvds can be done with Multiverse packages
<TheMuso> I think you can play DVDs without css if your drive has the correct region set.
<imbrandon> right
<secretlondon> imbrandon: they think we do, i know we don't
<TheMuso> But I am not sure.
<TheMuso> And IMO xine has better DVD playback than gstreamer.
<TheMuso> Due to menus etc.
<imbrandon> it boils down to the ONLY thing w32codecs are NEEDED for is wmv's
<secretlondon> I wonder if we need a meta package installing all the gstreamer bads and uglies
<secretlondon> just to make it easier for them
<LaserJock> we do
<TheMuso> I personally don't find it too hard to install the gstreamer packages.
<imbrandon> secretlondon: nah, there is a install on demad comming for feisty ( already in edgy for kubuntu )
<Seveas> !info ubuntu-multimedia-gnome
<ubotu> ubuntu-multimedia-gnome: Ubuntu multimedia packages - GNOME version. In component seveas\-meta, is optional. Version 6.10-2 (edgy-seveas), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB
<imbrandon> that was talked aobut at UDS
* imbrandon is afk again
<secretlondon> ok - because i knw people don't realise how little they need automatix as keep getting feedback about it
<LaserJock> I installed an Edgy prerelease
<LaserJock> and I forgot to install the mp3 stuff
<LaserJock> so I fired up Rhythmbox and tried to play one of my mp3s
<LaserJock> it poped up a dialog box saying it couldn't play mp3s and offered to install the packages needed
<LaserJock> I hit "Ok" and it did it just fine and mp3s played fine
<Fujitsu> Amarok does that now as well.
<secretlondon> great
<LaserJock> easy as that
<imbrandon> actualy amarok did it first :) but anyhow thats getting put in for all codecs for feisty
<imbrandon> as i said it was the easy-codec bof
<secretlondon> fabulous
<imbrandon> but it works for mp3's now in edgy ( that accounts for 80% + of the codec problems )
<imbrandon> ok anyhow really afk again
<LaserJock> I wish the Automatix people would at least look at this stuff
<secretlondon> imbrandon: but they think it doesn't and install helper script thing anyway
<LaserJock> same with Opera
<LaserJock> they could use the dapper-commercial repo, but they don't
<imbrandon> ( and dapper kubuntu too becouse i backported the new amarok with the patch )
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I wish the Automatix people would just vanish.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's not going to happen
<LaserJock> it's wildly popular
<Fujitsu> We can hope.
<secretlondon> if anything we'll get more of this stuff
<LaserJock> many people consider it the salvation of Ubuntu
<TheMuso> Do the automatix folks state that it will screw your system in terms of future upgrades?
* Fujitsu explodes
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I doubt it.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: not sure exactly
<imbrandon> secretlondon: well thats a issue of ignorance, someone just needs to take the time to inform them ( over and over ) of the "right way" , thats the only way to get it tdone, and frankly i dont have the time to troll the forums to do it, so i rely on others to doso
<LaserJock> the problem is that you can't just dismiss it
<secretlondon> imbrandon: me neither - I have better things to do. I stop it when I see it on Live Journal - the forums are too big for me (but they are supposedly policed)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's where forum mod/admin training would be good
<imbrandon> oh i know, it cant be dismissed, but i see it as it takes time aweay from coding to doso when some non coder can be informed and help in that way
<LaserJock> when I see mods and admins saying the most fantastic FUD I get a little irritated
<secretlondon> TheMuso: of course not. wikipedia now does though
<TheMuso> But who visits wiipedia to read up on automatix?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Some of them do that!?
<imbrandon> hehe
<PriceChild> Hey.... we talking about ubuntuforums.org?
<secretlondon> TheMuso: some do as they made their own page. I can control wikipedia - I can't control automatix's promotion team
<imbrandon> PriceChild: unfortunately
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well the guy who wrote Automatix was an admin or mod
<PriceChild> I'd like to point out that I NEVER condone EasyUbuntu
<PriceChild> or automatix
<Fujitsu> That arnieboy character?
<LaserJock> mhm
<PriceChild> I always give people documentation from the ubuntu wiki etc.
<Fujitsu> Goodo, PriceChild.
<LaserJock> PriceChild: we need more like you
<PriceChild> not only do they work better...
<Fujitsu> I loved arnieboy's manner... It was so nice.
<PriceChild> but you learn more about how your system works
<PriceChild> and they don't break
<LaserJock> the forums need moderation from the mod/admin community not the ubuntu dev community
<LaserJock> we simply don't have the time nor sway in the forum community to make a dent
<PriceChild> LaserJock: we're hopefully introducing "Forum Ambassadors" who will try and give feedback from the forums to the devs
<LaserJock> PriceChild: I know
<LaserJock> I hope it works
<PriceChild> there's now reason why you couldn't attend the next gobby session and try to get feedback the other way into the spec
<PriceChild> because that isn't really there...
<LaserJock> well, I was in on the forum thread on it
<plugwash> who owns/runs ubuntuforums.net , is it an official thing?
<PriceChild> started Unofficially by ryan troy
<PriceChild> it is now an official forum
<PriceChild> t is coming under more goverance
<LaserJock> plugwash: it's hosted by Canonical but "owned" by Ryan Troy
<PriceChild> see /forumsgovernance on the wiki
<LaserJock> yeah, if the forum governance and ambassadors specs actually work it should help a lot
<LaserJock> I'm a little skeptical, but trying to remain optimistic even so
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> everyone'll sort it out eventually....
<PriceChild> the main issue with the governance is that "it"s working right now... we don't want to change "it" too much
<PriceChild> I think both parties are happy with what we have in the wiki now though... I just don't know when it'll be officially announced/taken out of spec
<PriceChild> I think Mark and Ryan have to make a final "ok"
<secretlondon> ryan is dictator for life though?
<PriceChild> yeah finally got that agreed
<PriceChild> sabdffl
<PriceChild> :P
<PriceChild> FC is basically the same format as the CC
<imbrandon> and answers to the CC
<PriceChild> yup
<PriceChild> which... all going well, it shouldn't have to :)
<imbrandon> given the forum history ..... bah, never mind, forums are on my mind way too much, nothing should take this much of my time unwillingly
* imbrandon gives up
<PriceChild> forum history.... :S
<PriceChild> I've only been a mod a little over a month
* imbrandon detaches to get some work done :)
<PriceChild> I was just amazed what I discovered when appointed
<secretlondon> more unofficial forum stuff - a forum bug patch on bug #72388
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72388 in kubuntu-meta "Flac files not work in dapper/Amarok 1.4.3 and Kde 3.5.2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72388
<secretlondon> which we definately don't want them to be doing.
<LaserJock> well, the forums governance currently is a pretty broken system to me
<imbrandon> strange thing since 1.4.4 is in dapper ( backports ) and flac works fine ( if you have libxine-extracodes like i told the submitter 4 or 5 times he filed the bug before )
<LaserJock> I hope the specs will knock some sense into people
<imbrandon> one can hope
<PriceChild> I'm confused... we don't want who doing what?
<elkbuntu> some people doesnt always mean the right people
<kgoetz> does any of the ubuntu building doco cover changing applications build switches using apt-get -b or dpkg-buildpackage?
<secretlondon> PriceChild: we don't want unofficial patches doing the rounds
<PriceChild> ah k
<secretlondon> because there is 0 qualkity control
<PriceChild> yup
<LaserJock> kgoetz: not very well, it's planned for the next version of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<kgoetz> LaserJock: ah ok. any thoughts where would i look for info?
* minghua reboots to test _ion's LVM fix
<LaserJock> kgoetz: on how to do it? apt-get source <package>, make changes, dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot (after installing fakeroot)
<kgoetz> if i just want to recompile witha  different switch though, is it the same process, or so i have to set $stuff up first?
<LaserJock> kgoetz: you'll need to apt-get build-deps <packagename>
<kgoetz> got them... and g'bye
<joejaxx> fun
* joejaxx looks at diversions
<joejaxx> ajmitch: was the ian jackson at uds the same one who wrote the man pages for dpkg?
<joejaxx> or the some of the man pages
<ajmitch> joejaxx: probably the same guy
<joejaxx> ok
<azeem> he wrote dpkg, so probably the man pages as well
<joejaxx> oh alright i was just wondering
<joejaxx> and wanted to make sure
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: azeem i must have met alot of people at uds that i did not know about
<joejaxx> or did not linke with a ircname
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> link*
<joejaxx> i was glad people started putting their ircnames under their real names
<PriceChild> ha ha
<Fujitsu> Nametags should really have IRC nicks as well :P
<PriceChild> It is such an amazing thing... haven't such a huge community who have never even seen each other
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: :p
<joejaxx> PriceChild: yeah
<joejaxx> i think my nametag was the only one that had my ircname on it as my real name
<TheMuso> I remember my name tag had my IRC name.
<TheMuso> In paris.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: really? lol
<joejaxx> it said TheMuso?
<joejaxx> " "
<TheMuso> Afaik yes.
<joejaxx> that is funny
<TheMuso> Although it could have said anything and I may not have known. :)
<joejaxx> :P
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, there was one with your real name as well
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: really?
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: i did not see it up there when i looked on the first day
<Hobbsee> hey all
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, it didnt have the numerals, but there was a 'joseph jackson', i noticed it about mid-week
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> i was looking for one with my real name on it too
<joejaxx> oh well too late now
<PriceChild> Hey Hobbsee :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<_MMA_> Hey guys. Is Ices2 and Icecast synced from Debian?
<_MMA_> Im actually wondering about Ices0 which I cant fins in Universe.
<_MMA_> But I find Ices2.
<joejaxx> ices2 - Ogg Vorbis streaming source for Icecast 2
<_MMA_> yes
<secretlondon> is ices0 an older version?
<_MMA_> its the MP3 streamer
<imbrandon> ices2 is for icecast2 , ices0 is for icecast
<secretlondon> ah - maybe debian doesn't ship it
<imbrandon> one is oog one is mp3
<_MMA_> Wait. With Ices2, is the stream Vorbis or does the source have to be vorbis?
<imbrandon> ogg*
<imbrandon> ices2 will take any input, but the output is always vorbis
<secretlondon> _MMA_ I can't remember but its in the ices docs
<_MMA_> Ahh... That works also. Thanx Brandon.
<imbrandon> ices0 will also take any input but only output mp3
<_MMA_> So anything that works with Icecast shouldnt care about the stream?
* imbrandon go's back to configuring his fresh osx install
<_MMA_> "Player wise"
<imbrandon> correct
<_MMA_> Thanx
* _MMA_ retreats from his plan to get Ices0 packaged.
* imbrandon should throw his icecast stream backup for a little while , while osx finishes downloading updates
<imbrandon> secretlondon: you gonna get on and dj for us ?
<imbrandon> hehe
* ajmitch needs to play with jokosher a bit
<Hobbsee> hey PriceChild and ajmitch
<PriceChild> Heya :)
<Hobbsee> how are our SRU's going?
<PriceChild> SRU? :)
<ajmitch> no idea, I don't deal with SRU :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: who does?    it seems that we now have a forum thread as well as a bug report + 1 dupe now
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: stable release updates
<PriceChild> he he ok
<PriceChild> mine's pretty good
<PriceChild> i "think" i've sorted all your issues out...
<secretlondon> imbrandon: I haven't got the net to dj atm - but I do need to work out how to stream from linux as I used to use sam3 under windows
<PriceChild> i've got a niggling feeling i've been silly and missed one though
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: yay :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: the SRU team, of course
<PriceChild> right i need sleep
<PriceChild> night all
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: has it been sorted yet?
<ajmitch> of course
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ie, the team?
<ajmitch> about 2 weeks ago
<ajmitch> launchpad.net/people/motu-sru
<Hobbsee> oh right
<minghua> I can't really trust the docs on help.ubuntu.com, can I?
* minghua remember reading here that help.u.c recommends using checkinstall for maxima
<minghua> indeed it does: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/wxMaxima
<imbrandon> fit it !! hhehe
<imbrandon> ( it is a wiki )
<minghua> hmm, it seems indeed I can edit it
<minghua> what's the point of keeping help.ubuntu.com/community/ and wiki.ubuntu.com separate then?
<imbrandon> minghua: there is much more than help document tation on wiki.u.c , h.u.c/community is primarly community contributed help
<imbrandon> wiki.u.c is not a place for help docs, rather dev's wiki pages, specs, etc
<imbrandon> ( with the exception of the MOTU dev team docs )
<joejaxx> ajmitch: diversion is not going to work with the fluxbox package i do not think
<minghua> imbrandon: I think I can see the idea, but does that apply to reality?
<imbrandon> minghua: yes , actualy it does
<minghua> I remember seeing a lot of help docs on wiki.u.c, but I admit that was early days
<imbrandon> one of the few things that works as it should for the most part
<minghua> cool
<imbrandon> minghua: yes this transition was made mid dapper cycle
<joejaxx> i was wondering why stuff was moved
<minghua> maybe I should revise the input method related pages on help.u.c/community/
<joejaxx> where do the stories about ubuntu get pulled from on the fridge?
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, whatever the fridge team gets informed about, basically
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: ah ok
<joejaxx> wow nice they still have the old artwork up
<imbrandon> joejaxx: whenever someone on the fridge either 1) wites about it themselfs 2) gets poked in #ubuntu-fridge or 3) gets emailed at fridge-devel@ubuntu.com
<elkbuntu> if you have any ideas for stories for fridge or UWN, feel free to forward details on
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: alright i will
<elkbuntu> joejaxx, as mentioned above, #ubuntu-fridge for fridgy stuff, for UWN, poke people in #ubuntu-marketing or add it yourself https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter is a good place to look
* joejaxx bookmarks
<imbrandon> or email fridge-devel@u.c also for UWN iirc most UWN editors ( i know myself and cory and matt east ) are all on that list too
<imbrandon> ( mostly )
<imbrandon> either way(s) it all gets to the right place mostly :)
<elkbuntu> that goes for all of you too.. give us all teh juicy gossip!
* imbrandon huggles OSX, i forgot about all the little things i miss about it ( and the annoyances too ) as i have gone a month without it ( untill tonight )
<elkbuntu> lol
<imbrandon> if adobe would get off their arse and post PS to linux i would not need osx at all ( although it is nice to have something just work(tm) while i work on kubuntu :)
* imbrandon should shush now
<Hobbsee> hah, yes
<hub> imbrandon: what's wrong with gimp
<imbrandon> hahaha , hub your joking right?
<hub> no
<joejaxx> lol
<hub> i'm interested in opinions
<imbrandon> first off the interface, 2nd poor image rendering, no svg support , and TONS of other things
<hub> gimpshop
<hub> time to push it in ubuntu
<hub> 2nd, I don't see a problem, but it is subjective
<imbrandon> gimp is ok for someone just playing arround and never used pro software before, but anyone else its like asking a MS word user to use notepad
<hub> 3rd SVG? it does not support it as import and render?
<imbrandon> gimp shop dosent help any
<imbrandon> and no it dosent
<imbrandon> not natively
<joejaxx> impilinux?
<joejaxx> is that the name of that os?
<minghua> Debian's gimp-svg works quite well for my SVG files
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, well there is *some* svg support.
<imbrandon> minghua: yea to import them into a bitmap, not to manipulate them
<elkbuntu> you can *open* them... :
<hub> imbrandon: gimp is not a vector drawing application
<imbrandon> wow, thats really helpfull *rolls eyes* hehe
<minghua> imbrandon: well, then you used the wrong tool, I suppose
<hub> so manipulating SVG....
<hub> inkscape will do it
<imbrandon> why use 2 tools for the same job? when i've used one just fine for years with lots better support
<elkbuntu> hub, that means you need two programs, rather than one
<hub> elkbuntu: like with photoshop and illustrator
<hub> so what is the deal
<imbrandon> especialy when a svg incorperates bitmaped artwork, that becomes a major pain
<elkbuntu> hub, they at least talk to each other
<hub> (given that it was the original point of comparison)
<imbrandon> hub: but IL and PS work as one
<imbrandon> and install as one
<imbrandon> etc, its like gcc without a linker
<hub> no
<imbrandon> kinda useless
<hub> no
<joejaxx> imbrandon: what about tuxpaint? :( j/k
<hub> it is like word and excel
* imbrandon /kicks joejaxx 
<hub> or abiword and gnumeric
<joejaxx> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> hub: not exactly, what happens when you have vecor art that uses bitmaped art, that happens a TON
<imbrandon> so its like gcc + no linker
<hub> no
<hub> I agree that inscape and gimp not talking together lack
<hub> but it is not gcc and no linker
<hub> absolutely not
<elkbuntu> similar effect
<imbrandon> sure it is
<imbrandon> and thats just one of the many reasons anyhow as i said :)
<imbrandon> its all the little things that make a diffrence
<imbrandon> and gimpshop is a bad attempt to make a horrible interface semi better
<imbrandon> gimp was written with a programer in mind, not intutive at all
<elkbuntu> they even admit that somewhere
<imbrandon> open gimp for the first time in your life and draw a circle
<imbrandon> or even a square overlay
<imbrandon> gimp is a great tool for those that dont spend time in it daily , or for a programer to get sometihng "done" but its not near a PS replacement
<hub> it is for A LOT OF USERS
<hub> surely not you
<elkbuntu> hub, which did you use more of first? photoshop or gimp?
<imbrandon> hub: i dident say it wasent, but as i said, i serousily doubt any of them do it professionaly, and for those that do it simply dosent cut it
<hub> elkbuntu: last time I used photoshop was 3.0
<hub> elkbuntu: I don;t have 800 bucks to spend on it
<elkbuntu> hub, coming from .. 8? is a whole different story
<imbrandon> 1100 but yea
<elkbuntu> wtf is the current version number :
<imbrandon> 9
<imbrandon> cs2 actualy
<hub> CS2
<hub> the one that is slow as hell on Intel :-)
<hub> (talk about support)
<hub> (but I digress)
<imbrandon> wow , thats amazing as its geared to an intel compiler ( not amd or ppc )
<imbrandon> ( that info is in the about box )
<imbrandon> but anyhow, /me gets back to something productive
<hub> imbrandon: on Mac?
<imbrandon> windows or mac ( universal binary )
* imbrandon is afk
<hub> on mac CS2 is PowerPC only
<hub> it runs in the emulator, slower
* Mez could so do with a chicken chow mein now
* joejaxx does the MOTU dance
<ajmitch> joejaxx: how different is it from the bottle dance?
<joejaxx> hmm well there is more arm flailing like this
<joejaxx> \ 0 /   \ \o
<joejaxx> o //
<joejaxx> \o/
<Hobbsee> what's the MOTU dance?
* Hobbsee doesnt dance
* hub has no idea
<ajmitch> surely you dance..
<Hobbsee> nope
<joejaxx> then the feet >>  L _|   _| _|   L L
<joejaxx> _| |_
<joejaxx> Lol
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I don't believe you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and why not?
<joejaxx> what format is xar?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: because I just don't
<ajmitch> so there
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: fine then.  but i still dont dance :P
<ajmitch> I'm sure we can make you dance :)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: think we could convince her at LCA?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, the real question is, think we can get evidence?
<ajmitch> evidence is easy
<joejaxx> Lol
<elkbuntu> without her attacking our cameras with the long pointy stick?
<ajmitch> hide them well
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: maybe after a couple of cans of coke.  maybe
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Lol
<elkbuntu> what about red cordial?
* Hobbsee doesnt drink it
<ajmitch> besides, she's really nice & kind & not violent at all in person...
<joejaxx> ajmitch: in a hat you can hide the optical snapshot device
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you assume that i'll be at LCA
<ajmitch> you assume I will be as well
<ajmitch> what will stop you from going?
<elkbuntu> if ajmitch can make it, you have no excuse
* ajmitch probably won't make it at this rate
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: who knows if i'm in the country :P
* Hobbsee has all the excuses in the world
<ajmitch> running off somewhere?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and you assume that i wont be working
<Hobbsee> perhaps :)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: see, the slightest mention of me coming to australia & she runs away
<Hobbsee> haha
<elkbuntu> haha
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i have to pick up my sharper axe
* ajmitch wonders when we can get elkbuntu into MOTUship
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: does elkbuntu code much though?
<ajmitch> not yet, afaik :)
<elkbuntu> heh, i've got enough going on without coding/packaging
<Hobbsee> she can just do everything else
<ajmitch> so do the rest of us
<joejaxx> the MOTU dance should be a requirement Lol
<ajmitch> you won't catch me doing it
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you'd like to do it!
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I'll leave the dancing to others
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: does that mean you're a MOTU?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: no
<joejaxx> but i know the motu dance
<Hobbsee> awww
<joejaxx> i do not think me being a motu is going to happen anytime soon Lol
<ajmitch> probably the only one who knows this mythical dance
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah :p
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so it's the MOTU-wannabe dance
<joejaxx> LOL
<ajmitch> good, I don't have to do it then
* Hobbsee high fives ajmitch - EXACTLY!
<ajmitch> we'll still get you dancing one day...
<Hobbsee> no you wont
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, if you dont dance, how can you expect Hobbsee to?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: simple hypocrisy, I have no problem with it :)
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: dancing with you, probably
<ajmitch> besides, you've seen me attempt to dance
<elkbuntu> you did?
* elkbuntu goes back to photos
<ajmitch> I was there that night of the bottle dance, remember?
<elkbuntu> yes, those are the photos im going to
<ajmitch> hopefully I'm in none of those photos
<elkbuntu> of.. course.. not....
<Hobbsee> i bet you are, ajmitch
<ajmitch> :P
<elkbuntu> cant see you in any of the dancing pics
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch disavows all knowledge of that evening
<elkbuntu> well.. there are pics that do not involve dancing that may well involve you
<ajmitch> never
<Hobbsee> yes, what was ajmitch doing instead of dancing?
<elkbuntu> at one point, talking to the leslie, at another point talking to evan and colin
<ajmitch> usually talking to evan, especially about migration assistant
<ajmitch> plotting how we could share some ideas/code
<Hobbsee> being generally evil, yes
<ajmitch> so quick to think I'm evil
<elkbuntu> it's not a thought, ajmitch. we *know*
<joejaxx> where is the login splash in gnome set?
<joejaxx> the one after youlogin?
<Hobbsee> gdm??
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: no after you login
<ajmitch> after login
* ajmitch looks
<Hobbsee> oh right
<joejaxx> the one that says ubuntu on it
* Hobbsee could tell you where to change ksplash :P
<joejaxx> :P
<minghua> ajmitch: bug 72387 is probably the bug we hit (at least it's the one I hit)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72387 in lvm-common "Incorrect dependency in initramfs script, system fails to boot. Patch attached" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72387
<ajmitch> probably gnome-session somewhere
<kgoetz> is there a best way to search for what a variable means in a makefile? $DIST is the one i'm after specifically
<joejaxx> bbl
<ajmitch> edgy-session-splashes: /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-splash.png
<ajmitch> minghua: wonderful
<ajmitch> minghua: I bet that the mdadm script changed name
<ajmitch> since lvm-common hasn't changed
<minghua> ajmitch: unfortunately I lost my aptitude log so I can't confirm, but yes, I agree
<minghua> I don't remember anything lvm related changing
<ajmitch> it didn't, I checked the changelog
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: how about you deal with bug 72399
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72399 in Ubuntu "ati driver install incompatible with Edgy " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72399
<minghua> kgoetz: variable can generally mean anything in makefile, they are just a symbol
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no thanks, that's your job
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont have an ati card.  and you'd do it so much better
<kgoetz> minghua: ok
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: neither do I :)
<kgoetz> i'll see what damage i can do then :)
* ajmitch feels like going to sleep
<joejaxx> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> joejaxx: hm?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the path to the splash
<ajmitch> oh right
* ajmitch wonders how much breakage will ensue from having slapd & libldap from openldap2.3 
<ajmitch> given that libldap2-dev is from openldap2
<ajmitch> I guess debian hasn't had problems..
<joejaxx> ajmitch: /win 31
<joejaxx> bah
* joejaxx loves irssi :)
<ajmitch> only 31?
<joejaxx> no actually i am in 50 or so
<ajmitch> only 50? :)
<joejaxx> 53
<joejaxx> that is a minimum for me LOl
<joejaxx> normally i hit as high as 90
* ajmitch has 87 open right now
<joejaxx> LOl
<joejaxx> fun
<joejaxx> haha
<ajmitch> highest I've had is about 105
<joejaxx> wow
<ajmitch> irssi ftw :)
<joejaxx> yes :)
<joejaxx> i do not know if any other irc client could handle that many
<joejaxx> at once
<ajmitch> yay, kde breakage
* ajmitch blames Hobbsee 
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: which breakage?
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch - it's in main
<ajmitch> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdebase-data_4%3a3.5.5a.dfsg.1-1ubuntu5_all.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kinfocenter/cdinfo/index.cache.bz2', which is also in package kcontrol
<minghua> I had kdebase-data breakage yesterday too
<minghua> rerunning aptitude solves it
<ajmitch> missing Replaces, I presume
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i asked sivang to file that yesterday, and subscribe me to it.  no idea if he did.  and i didnt do that
<ajmitch> since it goes fine 2nd time round
<ajmitch> usual issues when moving files
<joejaxx> anyone know how the new usplashes work?
<ajmitch> Seveas does, if you can find him
<joejaxx> oh ok
* ajmitch would assume he's sleeping at the moment
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah probably so
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i changed everything back except the usplash
<joejaxx> when does feisty universe open after sync+merge right?
<joejaxx> i mean for package submission that is
<minghua> I believe you can submit new packages now
<imbrandon> now
<Simon80> yeah, feisty's open
<Simon80> look at the topic, hahaha
<Mez> feisty's been open for over a week
<Simon80> so, can anybody recommend a split package howto?
<joejaxx> Simon80: i have been in here for a very long time
<Mez> Simon80, dont know if there are howtos
<crimsun> what language?
<joejaxx>  /join wise
<Mez> a new package, or splitting a current one ?
<Simon80> either or
<Simon80> just how to
<Simon80> I mean, I have an existing single
<crimsun> my favourite example of one in python is quodlibet
<Simon80> should I just source that?
<crimsun> well, is your example in python?
<Simon80> no, but that doesn't matter, right, we're just dumping files
<joejaxx> ok good i have until febuary
<crimsun> well, sure, then.
<joejaxx> february*
<crimsun> cdbs makes splitting ridiculously simple
<Simon80> am I missing a reason why it would matter? :)
<Simon80> oh, and um.. I don't know how to use cdbs
<Simon80> :)
<crimsun> well, there may be better examples for different languages
<Simon80> got my dh_made package
<joejaxx> feature freeze and upstream freeze are in february :)
<Simon80> well, unless it's an example of binary + data..
<Simon80> I'm just gonna see what dh_make dumps into debian/ and take it from there... this is rather annoying though, gentoo has better docs, but not as good distro :(
<Simon80> hmm, before I go ahead, is it important to use release tarballs rather than release-tagged cvs source?
<minghua> Simon80: released tarballs are usually preferred
<imbrandon> tarbals are prefered
<Simon80> the reason I'm asking is that the tarball is split, sort of how I'm going to split this package
<Simon80> but if I use that, and they change how they make tarballs in the future, it's extra work
<Simon80> they're not gonna change how the cvs repo is structured, that's a lot more work
<Simon80> for them
<imbrandon> if they change how the tarbals are released, then its a good reason to reexamine the pagaging too
<imbrandon> packaging*
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> I suppose I'd have to do that anyway
<Simon80> .....but not necessarily
<Simon80> cause, they haven't released in a year, by the time they do, they might just wing it differently
<imbrandon> right, you want to stay as close to upstream as possible , within reason, unless you have a very good reason to change something
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> upstream release, you mean
<Simon80> cause to be clear, I'm not really changing anything, just grabbing it from cvs rather than from sf.net mirrors
<imbrandon> upstream anything, if they split it in a certain way , there is usaly a reason for it, and debian will normaly follow that reason unless there is a larger reason say dfsg for changeing it
<Simon80> I was even going to split it the same way
<Simon80> at least if I use the tarballs, I won't have to learn how to do split debs........
<Simon80> I definitely find this process painful compared to ebuilds
<imbrandon> heh well i seen you mentioned gentoo's doc's earlier too, think about it like this, gentoo is a meta distro, you HAVE to have doc's because thats basicly the whole distro, you lkearn tyo build the same system the same way as someone else
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> GFS
<imbrandon> gfs?
<Simon80> gentoo from scratch
<Simon80> I was talking about their ebuild howto though, it beats learning how to make debs
<imbrandon> heh, there realy isnt any other way ( and dont say stage 3 , i know -0- people that use only stage 3 and no other softweare )
<Simon80> the one area their system falls flat is usage... sooo slow
<Simon80> but from the dev side it's sweet
* StevenK should look at the ebuild howto, if only to poke fun at them.
<imbrandon> StevenK: its basicly a makefile
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> before you say anything, think about how their scripts are separate from sources
<imbrandon> makefile + watchfile
<imbrandon> Simon80: so our ours, everything is in /debian
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> so you can ebuild skype or something without needing to redist
<Simon80> I guess that's not a "feature" for debian folk
<imbrandon> right liek i said a watchfile + makefile
<Simon80> what do you mean by watchfile, Changelog?
<imbrandon> but that requires a user to want to compile something
<imbrandon> watchfile, tells the deb where to get the upstream tarbal
<imbrandon> e.g. 1/2 ebuild :)
<Simon80> imbrandon: they could use binary ebuilds with minor changes to portage, but it would mean compiler transitions and all that nonsense
<imbrandon> could and do are diffrent though :)
<Simon80> seems to me that they could, at least
<StevenK> Some things are already provided in binary form, for example, openoffice
<Simon80> that's different
<Simon80> cause if they did it on a large scale, it wouldn't be split out
<imbrandon> yea GRP files, i know but tey are always out of date and hard to find
<Mez> Simon80, compiler transitions are all part of the fun :D
<Simon80> and also, openoffice-bin is not prebuilt, it's the official openoffice binaries
<imbrandon> kde is still on 3.4 GRP files
<imbrandon> etc
<Simon80> I don't mean grp though
<Simon80> I mean debian style repos for after the fact
<imbrandon> i'm talking on a large scale, for every package, if they were all in binary form why use gentoo >
<Simon80> too much effort for gentoo though, they're already short enough as is
<kgoetz> sabdfl's blog (from a few weeks back) meantions ubuntu made iceweasel and firefox debs 'in case'. would it be posible to get the iceweasel debs?,
<Simon80> gentoo is flexible, that's why I use it, not cause of the source
<imbrandon> kgoetz: you would have to ask ian probably, he is the current "maintainer "
<Simon80> the source thing's part of that though, cause you can just recompile everything and the compiler transition is done
<Simon80> takes like, a week though
* StevenK whispers "Gentoo is for ricers"
<kgoetz> imbrandon: thanks. i'll go find deails on LP
<kgoetz> *his
<Simon80> I have somewhere around 500-600 ebuilds merged
<imbrandon> Simon80: you can in debian based ones too "apt-get source -b blah"  <-- grabs the source and builds it
<Simon80> yeah, but you don't get use flags, copious example configs, no default settings (I love that one, lol)
<kgoetz> you can use flags. you just edit apt.conf
<imbrandon> sure you can vi the debian/rules file and change to your hearts content
<StevenK> I remember seeing a hook for apt that downloads the buildd log for a package and scrolls it past while you download and install a package.
<Simon80> kgoetz, I don't mean CFLAGS
<Simon80> StevenK: lmao
<Simon80> oh man, that's funny... I think I'm done laughing
<Simon80> debian for ricers
<Simon80> that's sort of like X forwarding firefox to my 770
<imbrandon> StevenK: hahaha would make a ricer feel at home
<Simon80> look, it's firefox!
<imbrandon> or emerging kde :) look i compiled kde ( in 48 hours ) /me stops , hehehe
* imbrandon would much rather install a system and only compile what is needed to be changed for my contentness, not the whole damn thing
<elkbuntu> indeed
<kgoetz> imbrandon: ian jackson?
* StevenK would much rather install a system and have it work.
* StevenK wavs to elkbuntu
<imbrandon> kgoetz: yes
<StevenK> waves, even
<kgoetz> thanks
* elkbuntu oggs to StevenK
<imbrandon> lol
* imbrandon waits for someone to get flac'd
* elkbuntu flacs imbrandon
<StevenK> elkbuntu: :-P
* joejaxx decodes flac
<joejaxx> REVU UPLOADSS WILL NEVERR CEASEEE
<joejaxx> "    "
<joejaxx> is what it says
* StevenK sighs about packages.d.o some more.
<imbrandon> joejaxx: ummm what are you talking about ?
<StevenK> Nice way to make it difficult to file sync requests. :-/
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
<joejaxx> imbrandon: .flac
<joejaxx> audio
<Simon80> meh, once gentoo is up, it's more work than ubuntu, but still, I don't have to worry about dist-upgrading
* joejaxx thinks it was a badjoke
<imbrandon> no i mean with the revu shout
<joejaxx> 22:10  * joejaxx decodes flac
<joejaxx> 22:10 < joejaxx> is what it says
<imbrandon> Simon80: no you dont, you just have to worry about constantly emerging new versions
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Did I read somewhere that you have a bunch of Edgy CDs?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah it was a badjoke
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i do have some, however jellyware has the shipment
<Simon80> imbrandon: is that not like apt-get update?
<StevenK> elkbuntu: So I can't hit you up for some? :-P
<Simon80> emerge --sync takes a year, I know, but I mean, a lot less trouble than dist-upgrade breaking stuff
<imbrandon> not really, more like apt-get dist-upgrade ( dependancys )
<elkbuntu> StevenK, quantity dependant
<Simon80> the breakage is gradual
<imbrandon> Simon80: hrm dist upgrade rarely breaks things for me, very rarely, unless i have some 3rd party crap, but i know better
<Simon80> yeah
<imbrandon> i dist upgrade 2 or 3 times daily most of the time
<Simon80> now that I package, so do I
<StevenK> elkbuntu: I like the pressed ones. I was after 1 or 2 for myself. But only if you can swing it.
<minghua> in debian if you dist-upgrade from one stable release to a new stable release things should never break
<Simon80> imbrandon: I meant dist-upgrade edgy-feisty, etc.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, sure, i can manage that. pm details?
<Simon80> the other thing is that when something new comes out, I want it now, not 6 months, or even a year
<imbrandon> Simon80: ahh well thats not the only dist upgrade, dist-upgrade is a daily thing too, but as minghua said
<Simon80> that's my initial reason to switch
<imbrandon> Simon80: then run the dev release
<Simon80> but the dev release breaks
<Simon80> I tried that
<Simon80> not usable much
<imbrandon> hrm yes it breaks but as does anything if you get the "new hotness right away
<Simon80> not really, with gentoo, if I get something new and it breaks things, I can mask it
<imbrandon> but not useable is an overstatement
<imbrandon> sure and with debian you can pin it
<Simon80> well, early in the cycle, I got dapper, had not so good luck there, IIRC
<imbrandon> same thing
<Simon80> you can't pin it if they remove the old version from the repos
<Simon80> great in theory, spoiled by that in practice
<imbrandon> its in your apt-cache, nah works very well on many many systems i have here
<crimsun> dude, gotta have the latest crack[ful packages] 
<imbrandon> point is they both have merits , depends on where yuor priorities are
<Simon80> yeah
<imbrandon> but debian can do anything gentoo can and vice versa, its just how its done
<imbrandon> and the hoops you have to go through
<Simon80>  I wouldn't say anything, they're both specialized to some degree
<Simon80> I mean, anything yes, if you want a bloody forehead
<Simon80> but I don't
<imbrandon> but as i started off saying you cant compare ebuilds to deb's , genttos equiv to an deb is a grp file
<Simon80> well, no, you could compare ebuilds to deb-src, and ebuilds win out for me, nice and easy to write
<Simon80> and can get around redist legality issues
<imbrandon> as you can with other debian mirrors too
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> how so?
<Simon80> amd I hope ubuntu's firefox builds aren't slow still
<crimsun> eh, only _some_ redist issues
<imbrandon> look at seveas.imbrandon.com or debian-multimedia.org
<Simon80> yeah, but that's still illegal
<crimsun> and feisty's ff 2.0 has been blessed by mozilla
<crimsun> err, edgy's
<Simon80> hmm
* crimsun puts down the crackpipe
<imbrandon> no, its only ileagle if its used in the wrong place
<Simon80> cause I wasn't imagining the slowness in breezy
<crimsun> that was due to cairo, in part
<Simon80> switching tabs was slow with the package, faster with the bins
<imbrandon> just as an ebuild
<crimsun> it has been disabled except for certain langs in edgy
<Simon80> seems to still be doing that
<crimsun> (cf. changelog)
<Simon80> I hate a problem like that, how would I even come close to solving it?
<Simon80> I don't mind solving problems, but I hate ones I can't touch
<crimsun> what do you mean by "solving"?
<Simon80> fixing
<Simon80> for me at the very least
<minghua> nobody stops you from rebuilding your own firefox package
<crimsun> precisely, minghua
<Simon80> but I have no idea if that would fix it
<Simon80> and building a firefox package is way too much effort
<crimsun> or if you're utterly concerned, you _can_ use the official bins from their Web site and just use equivs
<crimsun> granted that's some amount of crackfulness, but...
<Simon80> yeah, I know... but it's a pain
<Simon80> it doesn't really fix the issue, in 6 months I have to put in effort again
<Hobbsee> Simon80: especially if it ftbfs with the qt engine
<Simon80> ftbfs?
<crimsun> why in six months?
<Simon80> freetpe something something..
<Simon80> feisty
<crimsun> no one forces you to dist-upgrade...
<minghua> if you know how to fix it in gentoo, you should be able to fix it the same way when you rebuild debian package
<imbrandon> bugsquishing is never unpainfull
<imbrandon> fail to build from source
<imbrandon> minghua: exactly
<imbrandon> that was my thinking
<minghua> if you are saying just use ebuild to build a gentoo package will give you desired result, then it's not gentoo's advantage, it's gentoo packager's advantage
<crimsun> bugsquishin is my blue pill.
<Hobbsee> Simon80: fails to build from source.
<Simon80> crimsun, not dist-upgrading isn't a solution either
* StevenK trips over the double negative
<crimsun> Simon80: what requirements prevent that from being a valid solution?
<Simon80> hobbsee, are you referring to cairo?
<Simon80> my requirement to partake in the new features in feisty
<imbrandon> Simon80: well i fail to see how you would have to redo it either, hopefull if you apt-get source the package and fix something you give that patch to the maintainer
<Hobbsee> Simon80: no.  to firefox
<crimsun> oh, then you and jdong need to huff the same 'pipe ;)
<crimsun> (no offense to either, of course)
<Mez> gentoo was one huge ftbfs for me
<Simon80> haha
<Simon80> yeah, I get those on occasion, my gentoo is a mix of unstable and stable
<Simon80> thing is, I don't want to rebuild firefox, for all I know that won't even fix this
<Simon80> in the past the official binaries have been noticeably faster
<Simon80> I may test that again
<Simon80> but I don't even have the time either
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ping?
<StevenK> Simon80: Can you prove that it is faster?
<Simon80> it's a GUI thing, how would I really prove it
<imbrandon> ok , here is my final question, because we are way OT for in here, but why the hell are you using ubuntu if gentoo does what you want/need ?
<StevenK> Exactly
<crimsun> imbrandon: shiny
<Simon80> gentoo does NOT do exactly what I need
<Simon80> it's high maintenance
<imbrandon> erm ok, i must have missed something way back, but thats ok, i'm in the dark alot
* imbrandon goes to grab some more dew
<Simon80> this wasn't really ever me bashing ubuntu for gentoo, it's just that ubuntu and debian can improve in some areas that gentoo does better
<LaserJock> oh goodie goodie, a gentoo discusion
<Simon80> like the good docs
<Simon80> so I can actually figure out how to write deb packages
<Amaranth> LaserJock: pong
<imbrandon> Simon80: but i explained that, gentoo is all doc's kinda like lfs, there wouldent be a gentto without a doc telling you how to compile it
<Simon80> is that an excuse for debian?
<imbrandon> no there are many good docs on making a deb
<LaserJock> Amaranth: dude, have you seen all the fluxbuntu discussions in here?
<imbrandon> in many diffrent fassions
<Amaranth> LaserJock: No. :P
<joejaxx> ?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I have since been schooled
<joejaxx> lol
<crimsun> Err, let's back up a sec. Arguably Gentoo's Policy and Contract are influenced heavily by Debian's.
<Simon80> key word: many, everywhere, disjoint, and in some areas incomplete
<Amaranth> Simon80: Debian New Maintainer's Guide
<LaserJock> Amaranth: good, I will refrain from my flame then ;-)
<crimsun> (not that they're anywhere near identical, but obviously there has been historical precedence)
<elkbuntu> lol, joejaxx, do you have highlight on 'fluxbuntu'?
<imbrandon> crimsun: yup
<Simon80> *sigh*
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: Lol
<crimsun> (and really, Gentoo and Debian are both very strong distros in their own rights)
<Amaranth> Simon80: What do you want?
<Simon80> not much, I'm just frustrated
<Amaranth> Simon80: You can't just bitch without having a deliverable.
<Simon80> part  of it is I just noticed the same tab switch slowness that firefox had in breezy
<crimsun> Amaranth: but I wanna shiny pony!
<Amaranth> tab switch slowness? i only got that when something was loading
<joejaxx> crimsun: Lol
<Simon80> no, loaded stuff, cpu time being used
<Simon80> I'll have to get the official bins and see if they do it too, baybe it's a regression
<minghua> well, if you just want to try firefox without pango, there is always MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO
<minghua> simple and easy, no recompiling needed
<Simon80> is that a notable difference or something?
<Amaranth> Simon80: Or you could check in edgy or feisty instead of something that old.
<Amaranth> minghua: pango is off unless you use a language that needs it
<minghua> that uses XFT rendering instead of PANGO rendering
<Simon80> Amaranth: what?
<Amaranth> Simon80: You're only looking at breezy's firefox?
<minghua> Amaranth: oh okay.  I didn't know.  thanks
<Simon80> amaranth: no, I'm looking at edgy's, and saying it's slow like breezy's
<imbrandon> Simon80: how are you measuring it ?
<Simon80> with my eyes :(
<Simon80> it's not a huge deal
<imbrandon> wow, ok, i meant measuring it
<LaserJock> Simon80: in the area of docs, the Ubuntu doc team has looked at the gentoo doc system
<LaserJock> it is one of our sort of model doc systems
<Simon80> imbrandon, how am I supposed to measure switching tabs
<Simon80> other than a cpu mon
* elkbuntu wonders if this topic should not go to another channel
<imbrandon> there are ways to measure anything, one way would be to put debug flags in and dbg it
<Simon80> I just noticed this now, I'm not going that far
<Simon80> like I said, way above my effort threshold... the farthest I'd go is check the official dist, that made a difference in breezy
<Simon80> the other thing is maybe it's related to fglrx vs r300
<Simon80> I don't even know
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: you have another topic to discuss? :-)
<imbrandon> right but before you can even make that assumption it would have to be 30s or greater diffrence, a few miliseconds cant be determined by the eye, i'm not saying your wrong, but you have to be objective about it and find exactly whats going on to help fix it
<Simon80> 30 s or greater?
<imbrandon> sure anything less than that cant be "judged" objectively
<imbrandon> with the eye alone
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, i could find many that are not likely to explode into a distro war ;)
<Simon80> I respectfully disagree, you can switch tabs and look at cpu usage
<Simon80> and delay
<Simon80> it's between highly snappy, and noticeably slow
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: distro war? we're all interested in Ubuntu here :-)
<imbrandon> sure but can you tell why? or even if it IS firefox and not something else running up the cpu ?
<Simon80> um, yes
<imbrandon> or a extension or anything
<imbrandon> you cant debug "snappy" and "noticeably slow" is whaty i'm getting at, i'm NOT saying its not slower, but thats hardly something to go on
<Simon80> ok, and now our POVs meet, I was bitching about this because I'm annoyed at how hard it is to track something like this down, but it bugs me nonetheless
<Simon80> lol:
<Simon80> !ohmy
<ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
* Amaranth just uses epiphany
<LaserJock> bah
<Simon80> anyway, my complaint about the docs still stand
<Simon80> stands*
<imbrandon> thats kinda like me saying , i think i get better gas milage with medium grade gas becouse when i filled up with low grade gas i had to full up two times in one week compared to two, e.g. there are a TON of other factors you must consider, e.g. what its compiled with, some real measurements etc etc etc
<Simon80> imbrandon, simple fact, from breezy, at least, was that I could compare ubuntu vs official firefox one after the other, and there was always a difference, it was not subtle, I have a fast machine, and under normal operation, switching a tab doesn't cause even a blip on my cpu monitor
<imbrandon> right , but you said it would be easier with an ebuild, its no easier to debug this in debian or in gentoo
<imbrandon> its stillth e same codebase, etc
<Simon80> whoa, whoa, haha, I never said that
<LaserJock> well
<Simon80> the only difference is gentoo makes it easy to use the official dist
<LaserJock> I do think debian source packages are probably much harder to compare upstream with
<LaserJock> we make a lot of changes quite a bit of the time
<Simon80> I don't think I even brought that up though
<imbrandon> Simon80: apt-get source blah, change what you like just like an ebuild
<imbrandon> then build it
<imbrandon> same thing
<Simon80> imbrandon, no, I mean emerge firefox-bin
<Simon80> that's easy
<imbrandon> apt-get source -b firefix
<imbrandon> exact same result
<Simon80> imbrandon, you're misunderstanding me
<crimsun> LaserJock: in terms of the binary package(s), yes
<LaserJock> most ebuilds I've seen are pretty darn simple
<Simon80> indeed, I love writing ebuilds in many cases
<LaserJock> probably .rpms are even closer (although I don't know)
<Hobbsee> Simon80: so why havnet you fixed firefox to be faster yet?
<imbrandon> rpm's are a nightmare, imagine a deb with no packaging rules
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, rofl
<joejaxx> imbrandon: that whould be terrible
<Simon80> indeed, that's a bit beyond me
<LaserJock> imbrandon: of course
<Hobbsee> Simon80: start learning.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: it really whould
<Simon80> hobbsee, it's not just learning, it's insane debugging for a problem that is probably only transient anyway
<crimsun> imbrandon: checkins...soap, please.
<LaserJock> but the point being, IMO debian packages are probably farther from the original source then most other package managment systems
* imbrandon hides and shushes
<LaserJock> so it makes it harder, at times, to compare upstream to our binaries
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Package management systems? What does the package management system have to do with the patches applied?
<Hobbsee> Simon80: like i say, get fixing.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i actually like all the rules debian has in place for its packaging archives
<Simon80> lol hobbsee
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
<Simon80> wasted effort
<LaserJock> Amaranth: well, maybe not so much package management, but package format
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Nope, that's not it either.
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<Amaranth> LaserJock: The word you're looking for is "distribution". :)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> that's not what I'm looking for
<crimsun> I think Jordan's referring to the build system from the maintainer's perspective.
<imbrandon> yea the build system is quite a bit diffrent, but the results i dont think are
<imbrandon> but thats my 0.2c
<Simon80> if you spent a few minutes in my head, you'd see why getting rid of a bit of cpu time usage when I switch tabs is not a priority: the problem has been on and off, related to _which build_ I use, and there are soo many other OSS contributions I have floating in my head that would benefit more people
<LaserJock> when I've looked at Gentoo, Fink, RPMs, they seem to do less messing around with the source
<Simon80> I agree with laserjock
<Amaranth> LaserJock: You are talking about patches, right?
<imbrandon> umm fink == debian packaging
<Simon80> a bit
<LaserJock> Amaranth: "stuff"
<minghua> imbrandon: not really
<Simon80> I mean, like, rpm can be kept down to just a spec file
<Amaranth> fink is debs and apt, no?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sorry, darwin ports is what I meant
<minghua> fink doesn't even have the concept of source package
<imbrandon> minghua: sure, i've even done some fink packages, they are very very similar
<LaserJock> Amaranth: highly modified
<Amaranth> well, yeah
<Simon80> I had makefile code + skeleton spec for the purpose of bundling with my own upstream release
<imbrandon> minghua: sure they do
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Scibuntu! (forums)
<Simon80> this was at work, so there's no release to speak of, but just that file was enough
<LaserJock> Amaranth: yeah, yeah
<minghua> imbrandon: really?  I admit I didn't look closely, but it seems just patches and a build script to me
<imbrandon> yea now darwin ports is diffrent, thats very close to gentoo portage or BSD ports ( e.g. where they all come from )
<imbrandon> but fink's are deb and dsc etc just like debian just built against the osx kernel
<LaserJock> so I think it does become harder to compare when we diverge from the original authors source
<imbrandon> follow basicly trhe same package guideline etc
<imbrandon> LaserJock: well all package management systems have diffrrent ways to have patches, ours is just more transparent, something like BSD ports patches the source directly in the ports tree
<imbrandon> so is VERY hard to compare
<Simon80> errr
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> you have a "patch" file
<LaserJock> that's pretty darn easy
<Simon80> ebuilds don't do that, they have patch files, and the ebuild patches after src is downloaded
<LaserJock> we don't even know if the .orig.tar.gz is right
<Simon80> patches the source, I mean
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> with ebuilds, you have SRC_URI pointing upstream
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ok think about it like this, you want to compare a debian package to an upstream version, you know EXACTLY where to find the diffrences, makes it very easy to compre, anything thats NOT in the .orig.tar.gz
<Simon80> the orig could be changed though
<imbrandon> Simon80: no, its nbot supose to be, it should match exactly upstream
* joejaxx grabs popcorn
<Simon80> and how do we know where the orig is from? that frustrates me at times
<LaserJock> that and it's much harder to see what's going on in a debian source package
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I'm 99% positive the .orig.tar.gz of every single package in ubuntu/debian is the exact upstream source unless it has dfsg in it's name.
<Simon80> I guess that's just something you know and I don't though, it's in uscan, isn't it?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I beg to differ ;-)
<Amaranth> LaserJock: That's a bug.
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon> LaserJock: if thats not the case there should be a very very good explination
<imbrandon> and a bug filed
<Amaranth> LaserJock: If you know about it it should have already been fixed. :)
<LaserJock> look, I'm not knocking Debian packaging here
<LaserJock> I've just seen this stuff
<imbrandon> right but what i'm saying is you should be able to count on the orig.tar.gz being exactly upstream, thats the WHOLE reason for it
<Amaranth> Simon80: What happens when the upstream goes away?
<LaserJock> and a price we have to pay for the stability and flexibility that we have is that we become farther away from the upstream source
* Simon80 copies another cvs head package of stepmania to his underground lair
<Simon80> Amaranth: gentoo usually mirrors... in that case though they will usually end up removing from portage anyhow though
<Simon80> though though though.. oops
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but if the way we do source packages "allows" for that, then it might be an issue
<Amaranth> Simon80: Well, I really mean what if example.com goes down for a week.
<LaserJock> mirrors generally
<imbrandon> hasent been for the past years
<Simon80> Amaranth: the mirrors are live
<Amaranth> Simon80: They keep a "mirror" of everything?
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> gentoo is hardcore, haha
<Amaranth> Simon80: How do you know the stuff on the "mirror" hasn't been modified?
<Simon80> checksums
<Amaranth> hehe
<Simon80> hashes I mean
<imbrandon> and then you have redist problems :)
<Amaranth> But the hash is in the ebuild :P
<Simon80> FEATURES=nomirror, dude
<LaserJock> in darwin ports it comes directly from the authors
<imbrandon> Simon80: just as deb http:someotherpalce.com
<imbrandon> :)
<Amaranth> I'm just being an ass now.
<Simon80> what?
<joejaxx> portage and the freebsd ports are very interesting
<Simon80> Amaranth, the ebuilds are stored locally
<joejaxx> Simon80: he means having nonubuntu repos
<Simon80> /usr/portage
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes so does BSD ports , and?
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> man o man we are WAY ot
<joejaxx> yeah
<Simon80> joejaxx.. I'm confuzzled a bit
<LaserJock> no we aren't
<Simon80> but redist problems, they aren't redisting
<joejaxx> Simon80: like if you want beryl
<LaserJock> this is an important topic for this channel
<joejaxx> Simon80: you have to add the beryl deb line
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> overlays
<Simon80> a bit less easy than deb, but still works
<Simon80> there are management tools that will autoupdate them
* joejaxx reminders everyone to dist-upgrade
<joejaxx> reminders*
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> reminds*
<Simon80> some people in here seem to be a bit too defensive about deb packages, during this discussion, lol
<imbrandon> brandon-holtsclaws-ibook:~ brandon$ apt-get dist-upgrade
<imbrandon> -bash: apt-get: command not found
<imbrandon> :)
<joejaxx> haha
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> ow
<joejaxx> imbrandon: that is not good
<Simon80> your system is broken!
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> quick, nuke the OS you're booted into!
<Simon80> "fix" it!
<imbrandon> haha no fink installed yet, so not broken :)
<imbrandon> nah , never nuke a *nix OS
<Simon80> lol
<Amaranth> hehe, OS X
<Simon80> calling that *nix is taking a bit of liberty
<LaserJock> my point is, I've seen many a time in here where people were like "can I just add/change/remove file X in the .orig.tar.gz?"
<Amaranth> Ubuntu would have had "brandon-holtsclaws-laptop"
<LaserJock> we should be thinking about the integrity of our sources
<imbrandon> Simon80: OSX is more unixy than some linux disrto's i;ve seen
<LaserJock> and how far away from the software author we go
<Simon80> imbrandon: lol
<Simon80> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
<Simon80> how many linux distros flout this more than OS X?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: Nah, just submit patches upstream and don't worry about it if they're not accepted.
<Amaranth> Simon80: It has vi, it's a *nix :P
<Simon80> Laserjock: that IS accepted to be wrong
<Simon80> lol
<Amaranth> (it has vi, right?)
<Simon80> my 70 is a *nix
<Simon80> undo isn't implemented though
<Simon80> 770*
<imbrandon> your 770 runs debian :)
<Simon80> sort of annoying just how much closed source stuff there is on it though
<Simon80> it's not debian, it's a debian deriv
<Simon80> debian has man pages
<Simon80> and logs
<Amaranth> 770 == old debian + maemo
<Amaranth> well, yeah
<Simon80> and debian is free
<imbrandon> it is heavly based on debian, cat /etc/issue ( says debian 3.1 )
<Simon80> what is issue?
<joejaxx> Simon80: you could always hack open your 770 and flash it mechanically
<Amaranth> man pages take space and log files take up space/kill flash drives
<Simon80> joejaxx: no need, but if I nuked all the non-free shit on it, it'd be much less useful
<Simon80> ie. no WPA connectivity, no more opera, flash
<Amaranth> hmm
<Simon80> er... don't need flash much though TBH
<Amaranth> 2 of those are the same on the desktop :P
<Simon80> no more codec support
<Simon80> the DSP would be idling
<Amaranth> same on the desktop
<joejaxx> joejaxx@equinox:~$ cat /etc/issue
<joejaxx> Ubuntu 6.10 \n \l
<joejaxx> Lol
<Amaranth> well, no, i guess the codecs on the 770 are special
<imbrandon> Simon80: and soon ( about 1 year ) the 770's will be based on ubuntu and buildt from our repos , they had a nice long talk with us at UDS and nokia is buying some arm buildd's for the DC
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> you wish
<Simon80> I wish
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh yeah that is right
<imbrandon> Simon80: no thats no joke, i spoke to them myself
<Amaranth> i overheard them asking where to ship the machines to :)
<elkbuntu> Simon80, i wouldnt go dismissing stuff like that
<joejaxx> Simon80: no they are
<imbrandon> and setup the buildd'swith  ben and james
<imbrandon> last week
<Simon80> I'm not that skeptical, I'm jsut thinking it's not going to be on MY 770, it'll be on 770.2
<Amaranth> yeah, it was someone talking to ben when we were out smoking
* joejaxx needs to get a Nokia 770
<Simon80> there's no way they'll build off Ubuntu repos with the current hardware, this hardware is not open for busness
<joejaxx> and slap fluxbuntu on it hahaha
<imbrandon> Amaranth: yea me and elmo and the nokia guys :) right after the embeded BoF
<Amaranth> imbrandon: yeah
<imbrandon> and wassabi
<Amaranth> Simon80: they release OS updates
<imbrandon> Simon80: as i said they are putting arm buildd's in the DC
<Amaranth> Simon80: one of those will probably flip you over to ubuntu :P
<Simon80> DC?
<imbrandon> data center
<joejaxx> datacentre
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> well, let it be known, I'm at the latest 770 OS, released only 2 weeks ago
<Simon80> 2GB mmcmobile support was added
<imbrandon> like i said something like this will take aobut 1 year to transition
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> it WILL take new hardware, dude, if they wanna use Ubuntu repos
<imbrandon> but you'll start seeing some of it very soon ( over the next month )
<Simon80> like I said, the _hardware_ is not "open" for business
<joejaxx> hmm
<Amaranth> Simon80: ARM is ARM is ARM
<Simon80> as in, there is a C55x DSP core in front of me, it is used for stuff, and none of that code is going to be opened up unless TI has a major change of heart
<Amaranth> Simon80: not all the stuff will come from Ubuntu's repos
<Simon80> C55x is C55x, haha
<Simon80> well then
<joejaxx> ubuntu is ubuntu! :D
<joejaxx> to be or not to be
<imbrandon> Simon80: but its still just an arm at heart, the basic os can be bulilt here, drivers for ther hardware inhouse
<joejaxx> that is the real question
<Simon80> when I think about it, using ubuntu's src packages would be the paragon of Ari Jaarski's philosophy for maemo
<Simon80> he wanted to participate in upstream
<imbrandon> maemo will be in the repos too irrc , so it can be more widely used for other devices
<imbrandon> iirc*
<Simon80> 770 has a long way to go software wise though, the core software is all opposite to the ports
<imbrandon> ok , anyhow i'm off for a bit
<Simon80> huge ass fonts, ubergnomelike featurelessness
<Simon80> as in, dumbed down further than gnome is at times
<Amaranth> grr
<Simon80> .....I'm on gnome right now, relax
<Simon80> don't deny it
<Simon80> there are some cases where you're digging through gconf wondering why they didn't just add a dropdown
<Simon80> or wondering why nautilus won't burn multisession
<joejaxx> Simon80: you can always write and help develop that
<joejaxx> write==code
<Simon80> I could, but I lack time
<joejaxx> well see here is the thing really
<Simon80> and don't question that, as we speak I just uploaded a new build of stepmania cvs to my webspace... I AM doing stuff.. I should be doing homework actually :(
<Amaranth> Simon80: It's always a trade-off. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2002-April/msg00618.html explains the pros/cons for a certain feature
<Simon80> amaranth: I know
<Simon80> .......I confess, I can't really provide good arguments to the contrary
<Simon80> though there's always that cups thing that got linus involved, lol
<Amaranth> that has since been fixed
<Simon80> that's what bugs me, when they omit features
<Simon80> I should file a bug on the mouse applet
<Amaranth> Generally "features" are missing because no one has done them the way the maintainer wants them to be done.
<Simon80> needs to be able to change speed/accel on more than corepointer
<Amaranth> Or because the maintainer thinks they're a bad idea for some reason. :)
<Amaranth> It's not just because he hates you. :)
<Simon80> I haven't clashed with any maintainers, no code to speak of yet
<Simon80> how do I add my own gpg key to apt-key?
<Simon80> lol
<Amaranth> apt-key add
<Simon80> yes, but my own key
<Simon80> I've wget riddell's key and such.. how do I access my own key in that format
<Simon80> wgot, lol
<Simon80> my pubkey
<crimsun> export it in armored mode, then use the above command
<Simon80> gpg --export
<imbrandon> expot your own pubkey to a file then apt-get add file
<Simon80> yeah, just saw it
<Amaranth> gpg --armor --export
<Simon80> what option for armored?
<Simon80> ah
<joejaxx> -a
<joejaxx> i believe
<Simon80> yep
<imbrandon> gpg --armor --output pubkey.txt --export 'Your Name'
<Simon80> is it safe to upload that to my repo?
<Simon80> err, not safe, but useful
<Simon80> obviously it's safe
<Amaranth> I'd rather you not
<imbrandon> yes, if your repo is signed ( and it should be )
<crimsun> I think if you have to ask whether it's useful, ...
<imbrandon> crimsun: that was my next sentance
<Simon80> um, well no, it could be that it isn't, because if my repo is untrusted
<Simon80> I don't know
<Simon80> no use modifying a pubkey though
<joejaxx> i ?
<Simon80> what filename for the key though?
<Amaranth> If people don't add your key they get an annoying dialog in synaptic every time they refresh and if they do then it's harder to tell what packages are coming from official places and what packages aren't.
<imbrandon> Simon80: well tbh if you dont know if the gpg pubkey is usefull i have little faith in you making a repo
<Simon80> amaranth: I know, that's why i'm adding it
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> -i
<Amaranth> Simon80: I'm saying _don't_ add it
<Simon80> imbrandon, quit flaming me dammit
<Simon80> I meant useful as opposed to putting it on a website like I've seen others do
<imbrandon> Simon80: i'm not, but if you were arround for the last upgrade cycle and seent he problems with third party packages
<Amaranth> Simon80: Don't sign your packages that way they show up as 'NOT AUTHENTICATED' so people know they're not from Ubuntu.
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> but then I lose to security of having signed packages
<imbrandon> crimsun: please take my spot in the education of this padiwan, so i dont get called a flamer anymore, i got other things i can be doing
<Simon80> lol
<crimsun> sorry, I'm too busy doing shallow things with bugs.
<Simon80> you flaming **** :)
<joejaxx> Amaranth: Lol
<Amaranth> Simon80: And your users lose any easy way to see whether or not you're updating their libc6
<Amaranth> (if you sign)
<joejaxx> Amaranth: you know people do noy like that message :P
<Simon80> I must say, since my packages are hosted on a relatively untrusted host, I would want the signatures
<Amaranth> joejaxx: But they like my packages so I tell them to put up with it. :P
<joejaxx> Amaranth: hahaha
<Simon80> lol, why would I update their libc? that's just evil
<joejaxx> Simon80: basically
<Simon80> question is what filename for my key
<joejaxx> if they have a debline in their apt
<joejaxx> you have control of their machine
<joejaxx> :(
<Amaranth> Simon80: File name doesn't matter, the user has to wget it anyway.
<Simon80> oh, ok
<Simon80> but then your argument is moot, the user can avoid adding anyhow
<Simon80> if they wanna track where the updates are from, they can use synaptic
<Amaranth> Simon80: if you sign the packages and they don't get the key they get a weird error dialog every time they hit refresh in synaptic
<Simon80> I know, I know
<Amaranth> And I have no idea how to track where an update is coming from in synaptic. :P
<Simon80> but if they don't get that dialog, they can still easily check the package source
<Simon80> versions tab
<Simon80> want a screenie?
<joejaxx> sudo apt-cache policy nameofpackage
<Amaranth> no
<Amaranth> that wasn't the point
<Amaranth> if i don't know how to check what normal user would?
<Amaranth> joejaxx: i do madison instead but yeah
<Simon80> I added my key, and it still won't auth, dammit
<joejaxx> did you apt-get update
<Simon80> yep
<joejaxx> did you sign your release file?
<Simon80> I just realized as you said that
<Simon80> I don't actually have a real repo
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> how are you apt-getting things?
<joejaxx> then
<joejaxx> *
<Simon80> haven't bothered to figure that out... alls I've got is a dir with sources and packages.gz
<Simon80> and files
<Simon80> flat
<Simon80> dunno how to do the full monty yet
<joejaxx> hmm
<Simon80> http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/
<joejaxx> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/repository-howto/repository-howto
<Simon80> thank you, I'd seen that, but was too lazy to find it again
<Simon80> way too many hyperlinks, and all the tubes, it's so confusing
<Simon80> it's just this big bunch of tubes
<Simon80> my repo is the type that gets added as deb http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/~sruggier/files/apt/ ./
<Simon80> confuses synatpic if you try to edit it, lol
<Simon80> won't let you save it
<Simon80> synaptic*
<joejaxx> you should really set that up right
<joejaxx> lol
<Simon80> I will eventually
<Simon80> it's still apt-gettable, lol
<Simon80> try it
<joejaxx> yeah but it is not the right syntax
<Simon80> I only imitate, so you can bet that I copied it from someone
<Simon80> :)
<joejaxx> you really need tofix that :\
<Simon80> believe me, I will before it becomes a big deal
<Simon80> but it works and there's nothing wrong with it
<joejaxx> well
<Simon80> I have 0 users, and the 1 package in there is stepmania cvs head
<Simon80> as of now
<joejaxx> bah nevermind
<joejaxx> ok
<Simon80> lol, it works in synaptic too
<Simon80> you can add it.. just can't edit then save
<Simon80> unless you change it
<Simon80> to something other than the right line
<Simon80> I don't even have room for more packages in the space I'm hosting
<joejaxx> there is a reason why synaptic will not let you save it
<Simon80> so I'll have to move it at the time I fix this
<Simon80> do you have a reason? or are you deducing that?
<Simon80> and lol"
<Simon80> :
<Simon80> WARNING: The graphic '/AdditionalSongs/Heavy only/worshiptherobots/worshiptherobots-bg.bmp' has frame dimensions that aren't even numbers.
<joejaxx> Simon80: the reason is
<joejaxx> is the repository i not setup right
<joejaxx> there is a certain structure to a debian repository
<joejaxx> synaptic is looking for it
<joejaxx> and does not see it
<Simon80> it sees it, the packages are used
<joejaxx> nevermind i do not think you are going to get it
<Simon80> you mean the dist stuff?
<joejaxx> what i am trying to tell you
<Simon80> thing is, if it's a valid line, and apt accepts it, synaptic accepts it, but that one dialog doesn't, I say the dialog is outnumbered
<Simon80> go on though
<joejaxx> it is not a valid line
<joejaxx> that is my point
<Simon80> how so though?
<joejaxx> ok
<Simon80> I mean, if you point to policy, fine
<Simon80> I really should be asleep now though
<Simon80> but don't worry, I'm not going to go through life not knowing how to set up a repo
<Simon80> please do explain why the line's invalid though
<Simon80> now that we've talked about it for a while
<joejaxx> deb ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
<joejaxx> deb-src ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
<Simon80> mmhmm
<joejaxx> that is what synaptic is looking for
<joejaxx> let me explain
<Simon80> I know
<Simon80> you have the dist, and then any components
<joejaxx> yes
<Simon80> clearly this isn't the same format
<joejaxx> exactly
<Simon80> I'm sure that the simpler one working is no accident though
<joejaxx> your apt line should look like that
<joejaxx> atleast have component1 and component2
<Simon80> like I said, different format, no accident
<joejaxx> there are ways to hacking and tricking things into working
<Simon80> can't be an accident
<Simon80> apt would asplode
<joejaxx> like the other day
<joejaxx> i trick my i386 computer
<joejaxx> into downloading a PowerPC chroot
<joejaxx> it worked
<joejaxx> but it is not supposed to be that way
<Simon80> into downloading through apt? how?
<Simon80> how is it a trick?
<joejaxx> Simon80: you cannot download a PowerPC chroot on an intel computer
<joejaxx> it checks your arch type
<joejaxx> and downloads it accordingly
<Simon80> you have to be specific, I could fie up wget and dl it
<Simon80> so you mean for pbuilder?
<joejaxx> no my jbuilder app
<joejaxx> but anyway
<Simon80> but I mean, what is dling the chroots? how is this relevant? lol
<imbrandon> that deb line is valid syntax for apt, its just not the prefered way
<Simon80> there we go
<Simon80> that's what my position was
<Simon80> no offense, joe
<joejaxx> Simon80: like i said there is a reason synaptic does not accept your deb lines
<joejaxx> lol
<Simon80> I mean, I will figure out deb repos, but there's a time and place...
<Simon80> synaptic accepts them though
<Simon80> just the edit repo dialog doesn't
<joejaxx> ok
<Simon80> you can add it, just not save the same line in the edit dialog
<joejaxx> its what i whould call what i did lol a hack
<Simon80> I dunno if I'd go so far
<Simon80> it's at least half way though
<Simon80> the repo's a hack, for sure, lol
<Simon80> just outputted sources and packages to a flat dir
<joejaxx> ok lol
<minghua> joejaxx: I agree with imbrandon here, honestly I think that would be a bug in synaptic
<joejaxx> lol
<Simon80> in his defense, he may have misunderstood that synaptic was conflicting with itself there... I didn't make that clear, I just boasted that it confuses synaptic
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> i just know what i read from the sources docs lol
<joejaxx> kind of like me using equivs instead of pbuilder
<joejaxx> to make metapackages
<joejaxx> like i tried doing back before i read the debian new maintainers guide a almost a year ago
<Simon80> equivs?
<Simon80> and yes, definitely do your homework before creating things
<Simon80> ...or, in my defense, imitate
<Simon80> and then learn when ready
<Simon80> I tend to read a lot before doing
<Simon80> this is just one case
<joejaxx> bbl
<Simon80> me too
<joejaxx> bah nevermind i forgot i had to do something else
<joejaxx> before i detached
<joejaxx> minghua ping?
<minghua> joejaxx: yes?
<joejaxx> the syntax on the debian docs is not a standard?
<minghua> joejaxx: which doc?  the "how to maintain a repo" one?
<joejaxx> hold on i just received 71 emails
<joejaxx> minghua: yes
<joejaxx> deb|deb-src uri distribution [component1]  [component2]  [...] 
<joejaxx> this is what i was referring to actually
<minghua> joejaxx: I never read that doc, reading now
<joejaxx> wow i really need to create rules/filters for my email
<minghua> joejaxx: look a little down at the "Example 4. Two Trivial Repositories from my sources.list"
<minghua> joejaxx: basically both syntaxes are correct, one being used by Debian official archives, so a bit more "formal"
<joejaxx> deb file:///home/aisotton/rep-exact binary/
<joejaxx> deb-src file:///home/aisotton/rep-exact source/
<minghua> joejaxx: but I won't go as far as saying the other is wrong
<joejaxx> that?
<minghua> yes
<joejaxx> that still has the distribution argument
<joejaxx> and subdirectories
<minghua> no
<joejaxx> i mean the first argument
<minghua> you don't have trailing "/" for distribution argument
<minghua> that's how apt differentiate those two forms
<minghua> s/that's how/I think that's how/
<joejaxx> hmm
<Simon80> it's how
<Simon80> it doesn't work to jsut say deb x.x.x .
<Simon80> has to be ./
<Simon80> I know empirically
<joejaxx> interesting
<imbrandon> welp time for a bit of sleep i think, see yall after bit, gnight joejaxx Simon80 minghua and anyone else still awake
<Simon80> me too
<Simon80> it's 3:21 here
<Simon80> *smacks self*
<minghua> yeah, I should go sleep, too
<minghua> good night imbrandon
<joejaxx> wow
<joejaxx> that line imbrando n type highlighted in gold
<ajmitch> going to sleep already?
<ajmitch> slackers
<joejaxx> what is up with that
<imbrandon> ajmitch: haha probably not, but my eyes are telling me to try
<joejaxx> hmm
<ajmitch> yeah, I went to bed at 11pm last night
<imbrandon> actualy i'll probably keep hacking on this shell script for a nother houur
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, i've been in bed by 11 every night since coming back to Aus, it feels so unnatural :
<imbrandon> gah, i knew there was something i forgot to setup, fskin osx terminal dosent like backspaces /me looks for the settings to change
<joejaxx> ajmitch: does irssi highlight full lines on nick ping?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: usually
<imbrandon> joejaxx: should
<ajmitch> well I've set it to highlight here
<joejaxx> ajmitch: imbrandon yeah but i mean
* nixternal has gone back to a full blown irssi config
<joejaxx> right now both of your nicks highlighted
<joejaxx> not the whole thing
<joejaxx> whole line
<ajmitch> right, the line doesn't usually highlight, just the nick on the left
<ajmitch> if that's what you mean
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> the whole line highlighted
<joejaxx> when imbrandon said he was going to sleep
<nixternal> you can set the line to highlight though by adding the color at the end of }... i.e, {msgnick %Y$0$1-%n}%Y   <- in your theme file
<joejaxx> nixternal: yes but is that default?
<nixternal> that %Y at the end would highlight the entire line bold yellow
<nixternal> no joejaxx
<joejaxx> it is the first time irssi has highlighted a whole line
<nixternal> default == nick only
<joejaxx> yeah see
<joejaxx> it just did it once again
<joejaxx> with this
<joejaxx> 00:27 < nixternal> no joejaxx
<nixternal> hrmm..that messed up my highlight...lol
<joejaxx> the word "no" was highlighted also
<nixternal> but i have a highlight window as well, so all my highlights go to a split window at the top of my terminial
<joejaxx> hmmm interesting
<nixternal> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/irssi.jpg
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> :)
<nixternal> the top window logs all of my highlights
<joejaxx> uh oh
<joejaxx> oh shoot
<joejaxx> nice
<joejaxx> bah hold on bbl
* minghua heads to bed
<minghua> see you guys
<joejaxx> oh mannnnn
<joejaxx> this is NOT goo
<joejaxx> d
<joejaxx> not good at all
<joejaxx> my server is on fire
<ajmitch> joejaxx: that doesn't sound so great
<ajmitch> where is this server?
<joejaxx> oh man
<joejaxx> ajmitch: in a controlled environment in one part of my room
<joejaxx> i had to force shutdown
<joejaxx> take it out the server rack
<joejaxx> unscrew the psu
<ajmitch> did you mean 'on fire', or just letting out magic smoke?
<joejaxx> and take it out side
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> on fire
<ajmitch> lovely
<joejaxx> yea
<ajmitch> you have a server rack in your room? :)
<joejaxx> yeah :)
<ajmitch> man, some people..
<joejaxx> Lol
* ajmitch certainly doesn't have enough for a server rack
<joejaxx> i am glad the fire was only at the psu
<joejaxx> it could have spread to the drives
<joejaxx> and motherboard
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :\
<joejaxx> so it is time to look for another psu
* ajmitch has 2 computers here that work & are useful
* joejaxx fires up links2 on tty3
<ajmitch> since 1 of them is a laptop, there's hardly any point in getting a rack
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> hmm
* ajmitch would love to revive the old athlon xp
<joejaxx> ajmitch: how can i get mouse support for ttyX?
<ajmitch> no idea
<ajmitch> gpm, maybe?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: what is wrong with it? the xp?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i do not know
<ajmitch> dies about 10 seconds into bootup
<joejaxx> oh wow :\
<ajmitch> probably a cooked cpu or broken power supply
<ajmitch> motherboard has some bulging caps as well
* ajmitch replaced it with a little amd64 box
<joejaxx> nice :)
<ajmitch> yeah, the amd64 I got has a bit more diskspace, RAM, CPU power
<joejaxx> the only 64but computers i have here are som 233MHz sparcs
<ajmitch> makes for a good replacement
<joejaxx> ajmitch: nice upgrade
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> necessary upgrade, with a dead box
<joejaxx> yeah truw
<joejaxx> true
<ajmitch> gave me a chance to try out RAID, etc
<ajmitch> I can run stuff in vmware without any problems
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> like having both windows vista & 2k3 server running at once :)
<joejaxx> have you tried running 64 bit oses on vmware?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> works fine
<joejaxx> nice :)
<ajmitch> no different to 32-bit systems
<joejaxx> i was just wondering because 64bit support was suposed to be "expeerimental"
<ajmitch> I haven't tried 64-bit versions of windows
<joejaxx> uh oh hold on
<joejaxx> uh oh this is not good bbl :(
<ajmitch> more flames?
<nixternal> help timestamp_level
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> oh well, sleep time..g'nite
* TheMuso has his first updated merge to deal with.
* StevenK notes he has no idea why xemacs21 doesn't require xbitmaps to build any more.
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso
* rvalles tries to understand the decision to include non-free drivers...
<rvalles> instead, a few thousand could be donated to the ati and nvidia reverse-engineered driver efforts
<rvalles> and that'd almost guarantee free drivers for next ubuntu release
<ajmitch> rvalles: not necessarily
<ajmitch> there needs to be a lot of quality time, not just money thrown at it
<Burgundavia> rvalles: reverse engineering is a hard task, requiring smart people
<Burgundavia> there are not many people that are both a) smart enough b)have an interest in doing it
<ajmitch> c) aren't doing other necessary things already
<Burgundavia> yep
<ajmitch> eg there's a small handful of people who understand drivers & video cards well enough
<StevenK> And most of them work for Nvidia and ATI? :-P
<ajmitch> or intel
<Burgundavia> they are paying the big dollars
<Burgundavia> nvidia offered mjg59 a job
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: for open source development?
<Burgundavia> nah
<Burgundavia> it is nvidia, they don't really grok open source
<rvalles> 12:03:15 <   ajmitch> there needs to be a lot of quality time, not just money thrown at it
<rvalles> yup
<rvalles> but there are already people working in this stuff
<rvalles> ati and nvidia drivers... on the ati front, almost all atis work already, but the ones with only shared memory
<ajmitch> and you've seen the comments from the nouveau developers
<rvalles> and with nvidia, they're just starting
<rvalles> if they had the money not to need to work on anything else so that they could concentrate on the drivers
<rvalles> I can only imagine nice and fast advancement
<rvalles> instead, we decide to help the big corporations by distributing their drivers for them
<rvalles> not too smart, imho
<rvalles> and then, on the driver front, there are popular vendors (like broadcom) that won't even release linux drivers or specs at all; only the reverse-engineering path is left
<Burgundavia> wow, the 93472340384508th digg article about shipit
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: we should have a party when it reaches 10000000000000000
<Burgundavia> http://ftp.linuxcenter.ru/iso/SUSE-Linux-Enterprise-Server-10/ <-- yay, russian pirated ISOs!!
<ajmitch> w4r3z?
<Burgundavia> rvalles: are you fairly familiar with the open source video driver scene?
<Burgundavia> rvalles: sorry, network died. Did you respond?
<Hobbsee> he didnt
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> NM and my atheros card are not exactly a loving couple right now
<Hobbsee> edgy or feisty?
* Hobbsee never had trouble with her one
<Burgundavia> feisty, but an edgy kernel
<Burgundavia> I have not had issues until this run
<rvalles> Burgundavia: no.
<Adri2000> crimsun: I asked the pppoeconf debian maintainer and an ubuntu user, the don't have the same problem as me (windows not sized correctly)
<rvalles> 12:49:37 < Burgundav> NM and my atheros card are not exactly a loving couple right now
<rvalles> Burgundavia: tried NM a few weeks ago
<rvalles> it doesn't seem to have a way to specify IP, netmask, gateway and DNS servers
<rvalles> so it doesn't work on networks without DHCP
<StevenK> rvalles: Correct.
<rvalles> I don't understand why people are so much into NM
<rvalles> when it doesn't even do this much
<crimsun> it's largely dependent on the wifi chipset (and thus driver). n-m purportedly works wonderfully with ipw2200
<rvalles> so I went back to manually setting things up; I don't feel like installing dhcp at home...
<rvalles> crimsun: that, too
<rvalles> crimsun: it lacked support for most stuff in my zd1211 simply because it isn't in the database
<rvalles> when it uses the standard wireless API of the kernel like the other in-kernel-tree wireless drivers
<rvalles> on the other hand, it recognised another chipset I have there (crappy broadcom) just fine
<Hobbsee> works wonderfully with my two cards, with wpa, but i'm lucky
<Hobbsee> rvalles: it's the only gui form of wpa encrypted wifi
<StevenK> rvalles: It does ... funny stuff, like scan while associated.
<rvalles> Hobbsee: I know, and that's why I tried it
<rvalles> Hobbsee: too bad it supports WPA but doesn't support something as basic as assigning IP/mask/gw/DNS.
<Hobbsee> rvalles: true.  feel free to write the support for it though
<Hobbsee> rvalles: it's still quite new
<rvalles> so I'm back to my small script for wpa_supplicant invocation...
<rvalles> Hobbsee: I guess I'll give it another try after a few months
<rvalles> it seemed to me like a very good idea, but still on the early stages.
<rvalles> hope the ati reverse engineering people make it so that X1100 and other integrated chipsets without local memory works
<rvalles> *work
* StevenK might look at hacking that in.
<StevenK> If crappy wlassistant can do it, NM can.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: sounds like you're wanting to take over maintainership, and starting to hack on NM
<StevenK> Hah, not at all.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: keybuk would be happy
<StevenK> Potiently
* StevenK isn't sure what Keybuk thinks of him.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<PriceChild> Hi
<bddebian> Hello PriceChild
<PriceChild> :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian, hello PriceChild
<PriceChild> I'm reading up on dh_scrollkeeper Gloubiboulga :P
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: could you check something for me before I do it?
<Gloubiboulga> sure
<PriceChild> I've got a couple of files in debian
<PriceChild> postinst & postrm
<PriceChild> I've been advised to use dh_scrollkeeper instead of them
<PriceChild> I think that those two files can just be removed completely as they don't do anything else
<PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/xvidcap-0611181500/xvidcap-1.1.4p1/debian/postinst btw
<Gloubiboulga> indeed, you can remove them
<PriceChild> ok gd
<PriceChild> now for me to figure out where to put dh_scrollkeeper in control :)
<PriceChild> Is it just inside: "binary-arch: build install"
<PriceChild> below line 55: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32744/
<PriceChild> Oh and i removed "patch-stamp" from line 27 just before "configure-stamp"
<PriceChild> so i'm hoping that was correct also
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Gloubiboulga> you can call dh_scrollkeeper after dh_installmenu
<PriceChild> good good :)
<PriceChild> thankyou
<PriceChild> I'm getting there :)
<PriceChild> Gloubiboulga: got a little more time to spare?
<_MMA_> PriceChild: When is feature freeze for Feisty?
<PriceChild> couple of months
<PriceChild> (i think)
<PriceChild> I am no-one to be asking these questions though lol.... i'm a forums guy :)
<PriceChild> I'll go check for you
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule?highlight=%28schedule%29%7C%28feisty%29
<_MMA_> I know. I know you name. Im MetalMusicAddict there.
<PriceChild> Feb 8th
<PriceChild> ah k
<PriceChild> yeah feature freeze is feb 8th
<_MMA_> Thanx. ;)
<PriceChild> debian import freeze is 21st December though
<Gloubiboulga> PriceChild: not right now, but in a couple of hours, yes
<PriceChild> he he thanks for the help :) Gloubiboulga :)
<Adri2000> crimsun: is it ok for pppoeconf now? (see my comment on the bug)
<rmjb> hi, I'm looking for an motu to okay and release a sync request
<rmjb> the sync is for a package that's broken in edgy and also feisty and users are hitting the same bug in feisty...
<Lathiat> rmjb: best bet would to be to file a bug about the problem and suggest the version that fixes it
<rmjb> did all that already... quite some time ago
<Lathiat> url?
<rmjb> See here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress] 
<rmjb> here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/68294
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68294 in dmraid "[SRU]  Freeze Exception Request for dmraid" [Medium,Needs info] 
<rmjb> and here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Lathiat> hrm wow thats a pretty big bug
<rmjb> yeah... I'm kinda miffed it's taking this long to fix
<rmjb> if it could be synced for feisty I could request a backport to edgy
* Lathiat nods
* Lathiat -> bed, back tomorrow..
<geser> rmjb: are all ubuntu patches merged into the debian package?
<rmjb> yep as far I see
<geser> then you need you only need a motu to verify it and add an ack
<rmjb> can you do that?
<geser> I'm not a MOTU
<rmjb> okay, me neither
<geser> subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to the bug
<rmjb> thanks, did that... is the team notified when they
<rmjb> they're subscribed? or do I have to add a comment?
<geser> they get notified when you subscribe them
<rmjb> ok
<luisbg> how can I see which version of a package is apt going to install (not version of the software but of the ubuntu package
<luisbg> )
<PriceChild> luisbg:  there must be a cli way... but you can do it easily in synaptic by right clicking the package and looking at availiable versions
<luisbg> PriceChild, in the future I might need a command for that but...
<luisbg> for now it's cool, thanks
<Adri2000> apt-cache policy/madison
<luisbg> Admiral_Chicago, madison?
<Adri2000> yep
<PriceChild> ah that's good
<PriceChild> $ apt-cache madison gedit
<PriceChild>      gedit | 2.16.1-0ubuntu2 | http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages
<PriceChild>      gedit | 2.16.1-0ubuntu2 | http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources
<PriceChild> clever :)
<Adri2000> and policy has a field "candidate"
<luisbg> Adri2000, WOW! nice LOL
<PriceChild> you learn something new every day :)
<luisbg> PriceChild, in FOSS you learn so many things new every day :P
<PriceChild> problem is whatever i learned yesterday is already common knowledge to me and i've forgotten what it was
<luisbg> PriceChild, heh
<luisbg> so is it safe to change the apt sources to feisty now?
<pygi> luisbg: not really ^_^
<luisbg> pygi, LOL, for ubuntu motus?
<pygi> unless you are willing to cope with the problms you might experience ^_^
<pygi> luisbg: well, I just run a feisty pbuilder, no need for installing feisty
<Sp4rKy> can we do some poll with lp ?
<luisbg> pygi, ok cool, thanks
<PriceChild> I've got feisty on a separate partition for playing
<luisbg> hello LaserJock
<PriceChild> and a feisty pbuilder
<LaserJock> hi luisbg
<pygi> PriceChild: all good, but never recommend random folks to install feisty ^_^
<PriceChild> hey LaserJock
<PriceChild> lol definately not :()
<pygi> 'cause they won't bug you :)
<PriceChild> *:)
<PriceChild> I still reccomend people use Dapper instead of Edgy
<pygi> that's probably sane
<PriceChild> Do as I say, not as I do and all that
<PriceChild> personally to me Edgy's stable as a rock, had much less problems since install than I did with Dapper, but I'm in the minority
<LaserJock> I don't know that you are
<luisbg> LaserJock, how is all going?
<LaserJock> barring upgrade issues, Edgy seems pretty darn good
<LaserJock> luisbg: I'm sick in bed :/
<PriceChild> that's what I think
<luisbg> edgy is great
<luisbg> if the user hasn't done something outside ubuntu... is stable as a rock
<PriceChild> but if you spent a lot of time on the forums like me... you'd disagree
<luisbg> if the user has done outside of ubuntu, he will know how to fix that outside to update
<LaserJock> PriceChild: well, I've seen both
<PriceChild> so many issues like wireless regressinos
<luisbg> LaserJock, ooh sorry, what do you have?
<LaserJock> luisbg: just a cold
<LaserJock> yeah, hardware regressions always suck :/
<PriceChild> check this out: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=283364
<PriceChild> "This is just a start,"
<luisbg> LaserJock, take care ;)
<PriceChild> luisbg: its only a cold :)
<luisbg> PriceChild, being sick sucks... even though it's just a plain cold
<PriceChild> indeed
<PriceChild> I always find it annoying how i forget what being "normal" feels like when feeling ill
<LaserJock> ugg, I just can't look at the forums anymore
<PriceChild> :)
<PriceChild> what's up?
<LaserJock> it's just depressing
<PriceChild> explain? :)
<LaserJock> forums are great to find out everything wrong with Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and virtually no help/support for the dev community
<luisbg> LaserJock, sellfish pricks
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> it's just the way it is
<luisbg> human nature
<LaserJock> people mostly don't realize how the development works
<PriceChild> yeah
<PriceChild> i completely agree
<luisbg> one big problem usually is that people don't know how to report bugs correctly
<luisbg> I have given a bunch of linux related courses and lectures
<PriceChild> We're trying to address that I think, a sticky here and there to start off with
<luisbg> and asking to newbies how would they report a bug... usually gets a lot of silent faces reply
<PriceChild> hopefully with Ambassadors things will get done properly
<siretart> yeah: == Bug Stats ==
<siretart> * Open  (19313) +1337 over two weeks ago
<PriceChild> wow
<pygi> siretart: blame it all on cdrecord =)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: yeah the Server Fire Spread
<joejaxx> i did not realize
<joejaxx> that it spread to another server
<joejaxx> the fire that is
<mae> Hey, is there a place I can get a NSD 3.0 deb?
<mae> i'm having problems with nsd 2.x included currently and it sending axfr to slaves -- figured i would just upgrade
<siretart> whats NSD?
<rmjb> hello, Looking for an motu to review (and hopefully advocate) my package on REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3449
<PriceChild> argh....
<PriceChild> I've just realised i've put dependencies in teh wrong place on my package
* PriceChild runs off to fix
<LaserJock> anybody know how add something to the environment when executing a crontab
<rmjb> do up a script for the command that sets the cariable
<rmjb> s/cariable/variable
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<Sp4rKy> i really need help about the way to (re)create a good initrd.gz when we have modify the live cd ...
<luisbg> the only uploads accepted in edgy are for critical bug fixes right?
<PriceChild> or critical security patches
<secretlondon> exclduing backports
* pygi nods
<PriceChild> brb
<joejaxx> secretlondon: recreated?
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy:
<joejaxx> are you still there?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: ping
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> sorry :)
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: can you help me ?
<joejaxx> yes i can :)
<joejaxx> mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.17-10-generic on the livecd
<joejaxx> that will rebuild the initrd.gz and place it on the root of the livecd filesystem
<joejaxx> while you are chroot'd in
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: make sure you do that while you are chroot'd into the livecd filesystem
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: yes
<Sp4rKy> into my chroot, i've install the 2.6.17 kernel
<joejaxx> ok good
<Sp4rKy> and so, after logging out of my chroot
<joejaxx> nooo
<Sp4rKy> ?
<joejaxx> wait what are you trying to do exactly?
<Sp4rKy> the issue seems to be the ubuntu/capser/initrd.gz file
<Sp4rKy> so i want to recreate it
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Sp4rKy> and so recreate vmlinuz to
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: you want to do
<joejaxx> mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.17-10-generic
<joejaxx> INSIDE
<joejaxx> the chroot
<Sp4rKy> hmm
<Sp4rKy> ok
<joejaxx> then after you exit copy it to casper/initrd.gz
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> and must i copy the vmlinuz too ?
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> vmlinuz must be in casper also
<Sp4rKy> k
<metres> Hi there I'd like to help someone on testing and/or developing package !!
<metres> I dont know where to start...
<Sp4rKy> metres: you can help me on Ebuntu if you want :)
<pygi> metallikop: feel free to read Ubuntu Packaging Guide
<metres> What could I do for you ?
<pygi> Sp4rKy: don't push it
<pygi> metres: have you read packaging guide and debian new maintainer guide?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: :)
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: :)
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: enlightenment?
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: i'm trying (rebuild the iso)
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: yep
<metres> no where could Im found this ?
<joejaxx> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<PriceChild> metres i hope you know what you're getting yourself into ;)
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: nice
<metres> hehehe
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: thx
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: it is always nice to see a fellow derivative
<Sp4rKy> does the process to become a motu is really hard ?
<Sp4rKy> joejaxx: :)
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: not particularly hard, just takes patience and work
<pygi> metres: you should read that two, but you are always welcome to ask what you don't understand
<metres> Thanks guys for the links...
<pygi> LaserJock: and signed gpg ^_^
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: but about the "test" itself ?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: there isn't a specific "test"
<Sp4rKy> really ?
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: patience and work
<LaserJock> you work with the MOTU team, people see your work
<joejaxx> Sp4rKy: what LaserJock said
<Sp4rKy> k
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i did not see that you said patience and work before hand :P
<LaserJock> and then you go before the Technical Board (or perhaps soon the MOTU Council) and they review your work
<Sp4rKy> i thought there's a "test" like to become an ubuntu-member
<LaserJock> well, I don't really think of that as a "test" but it is similar
<Sp4rKy> k
<PriceChild> to become an ubuntu member you just have to be able to prove you've given to the community basically
<PriceChild> LaserJock: MOTUC? :O
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<LaserJock> PriceChild: Council Grayskull
<PriceChild> pardon?
<LaserJock> PriceChild: that's the name of the MOTU council that will be handling membership and MOTU applications
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock: bookmarked
<PriceChild> why Grayskull?
<LaserJock> PriceChild: comes from He-Man
<pygi> PriceChild: because, think :)
<pygi> PriceChild: cartoons ^_^
<LaserJock> as does the name MOTU
<PriceChild> he he cool :)
<PriceChild> ahhhh i getcha now
<Sp4rKy> PriceChild: i know for the ubuntu member coucil (i'm one :)
<PriceChild> ah k sorry Sp4rKy
<LaserJock> bbiab
<PriceChild> I'm gonna apply at next CC meting
<PriceChild> *meeting
<Sp4rKy> PriceChild: np
<Adri2000> Sp4rKy: what's the "test" to become an ubuntu member?
<Sp4rKy> Adri2000: not really a test in fact
<Sp4rKy> just write your name to the next CC list
<Sp4rKy> and come at the CC
<Sp4rKy> and wait a "CC member" talk to you
<Sp4rKy> and then talk about what you do for Ubuntu
<Sp4rKy> help / installation / packaging / translation / bugs ...
<Sp4rKy> all kind of contribution
<Adri2000> yeah ok, you don't have a piece of paper with questions, one hour to do it... :p
<Sp4rKy> nop
<pygi> Adri2000: hehe :)
<secretlondon> you need a history of activity and to document it - and recommendations from people
<secretlondon> admittedly i haven't done it yet
<Sp4rKy> and so CC member say "yes, you're 'able' to become an ubuntu member"
<Sp4rKy> or not
<pygi> secretlondon: ^_^
<pygi> Sp4rKy: one CC member not enough ;)
<Sp4rKy> pygi: i know
<Sp4rKy> 3 in fact
<Sp4rKy> or you maybe can help some special team
<Sp4rKy> ...
<Adri2000> sabdfl is supposed to be present at every CC?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> he's often away
<Adri2000> ok, and there is still no date for the next CC?
<Adri2000> it should be every two weeks
<PriceChild> I've been waiting for the next CC since october :(
<LaserJock> usually the developer summits and releases mess up the schedule
<LaserJock> as the people on the CC and TB are often the people doing a lot of the work
<PriceChild> yeah
<giskard> LaserJock, a motu con become CC or TB=
<giskard> ?
* siretart shouts *strike*!
<LaserJock> giskard: can they be on the CC or TB?
<LaserJock> is that what you're asking
<giskard> yes
<LaserJock> siretart: ssshh
<LaserJock> giskard: sure
* siretart thinks he just fixed malone #62751
<LaserJock> giskard: any member is eligible for CC
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62751 in cryptsetup "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes in cryptsetup" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62751
<giskard> LaserJock, idem for TB?
<giskard> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<LaserJock> giskard: I'd imagine that it would take being a core-dev to be on the TB
<LaserJock> giskard: but there is no rule against a MOTU being on the TB I don't think
<LaserJock> nominations are given to sabdfl
<LaserJock> he picks people
<LaserJock> and they are voted on by the developers/members
<giskard> ok
<siretart> TB ppl should have a good understanding of technical issues in ubuntu. those ppl are commonly found in ubuntu-core-dev
<LaserJock> it should all be happening very soon too
<LaserJock> now that the Canonical all-hands meeting is done
<pygi> PriceChild: it seems we'll keep search disabled after all for now, at least according to current votes
<pygi> PriceChild: lol, all want tracker^_^
<giskard> pygi, hello
<pygi> hey ho giskard :)
<PriceChild> he he :)
<PriceChild> pygi: leave it up at least a day or two first though
<PriceChild> you've only seen the opinions of a small group
<pygi> PriceChild: I will, but Brasero currently doesn't include tracker support, so no point including it as dep when it wouldnt work :p
<PriceChild> he he ok
<PriceChild> but you might get more feedback about the real question
<pygi> yes, I know ...
<pygi> and we have plans to include an abstraction layers for burning and search backends...
<pygi> it's just not the right time ^_^
<PriceChild> he he ok :)
<ajmitch> morning all
<PriceChild> morning
<secretlondon> morning
<pygi> PriceChild: it's just interesting how radical opinions some people have ^_^
<ajmitch> pygi: like "you *MUST* use tracker"?
<pygi> ajmitch: yes ^_^
<Laser_away> pygi: what's the point of having tracker/beagle support?
<pygi> Laser_away: to have search panel enabled in Brasero...
<Laser_away> well, but what are you supposed to search for?
<pygi> Laser_away: dunno, files you wanna include on cd or something?
<Laser_away> hm
<pygi> with a preview, bla, bla
<cbx33> why would I search for files I've just put onto a cd?
<cbx33> just curious?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: I have about 35 cds with random things I have burned on them. I would like to be able to find something on one of those cds easily
<cbx33> so is the idea to store in a db everything you've ever written onto a cd?
<Burgundavia> only stuff you want
* nixternal uses NAS (no need to burn)
<nixternal> ;p
<PriceChild> pygi: that's what you get with linux :)
<pygi> cbx33: even before you've put to cd, you can do a preview of images, music, video, etc
<Simon80> cbx33: there's a mac app that does this search thing
<Simon80> I forget the name, but they're one of those "we're perpetually in beta" apps
<Simon80> IMO beta is a label you use for the short time in between alpha and release
<Simon80> not some snobby indicator that you're somehow cutting edge
<pygi> Simon80: why not? ^_^
<Simon80> lol
<pygi> Simon80: I can't call libburn neither alpha and certainly not release (1.0) ready
<Simon80> because it's a misuse of the word for marketing purposes
<Simon80> pygi: you aren't selling libburn
<pygi> Simon80: true ^_^
<metres> Hi there, I dont found where to report a bug... When I start kdesu konqueror, It is unable to launch kate...
<secretlondon> metres: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<metres> thank secretlondon
<metres> I got  "warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined;" with pbuilder... anyone know why ?
<joejaxx> nice Feisty is actually working :)
<joejaxx> or is usable
<pygi> joejaxx: :P
<joejaxx> no seriously
<joejaxx> before it whould not accepted any input from my synapticpad and keyboard
<joejaxx> and the fonts were messed up a bit
<chantra> hi there, I was wondering, using a pbuilder chroot, is it possible to build a package for another distro
<pygi> chantra: for debian, yes
<pygi> others, havent tried
<chantra> I mean, having a edgy package, it is possible to change the debian/ settings such as that
<pygi> joejaxx: I know :)
<chantra> there is changelogs related to dapper and not edgy anymore?
<chantra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/ is down :s
* secretlondon nods at chantra
<chantra> guys, could i build a package using pbuilder like I would with dpkg-buildpackage?
<chantra> maybe debuilmd :)
<chantra> nope, does not seem to work
<pygi> chantra: may I suggest reading ubuntu packaging guide?
<pygi> chantra: debian new maintainers guide as well
<chantra> :)
<chantra> i'm rather struggling with pbuilder
<pygi> heh
<chantra> it seems this is rather to build a package, not to modify and rebuild a package
<kkubasik> if someone has a sec, can I get a review on this
<kkubasik> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3490
<chantra> if you see what i mean
<chantra> pygi: do you believe I can get a package built for edgy, change some dependancies in debian/control
<chantra> and then rebuild it with pbuilder?
<chantra> as far as I can experience with pbuilder, I cannot
<chantra> i can only build a package using .dsc file, which means i cannot modify the package
<fdoving> you can use 'pdebuild'
<chantra> fdoving: never heard of that one, will give it a try :)
<chantra> cheers :p
<pygi> chantra: well, you can do "debuild -S -sa" and then pbuilder build *.dsc
<pygi> chantra: and please, o please, read the guides
<chantra> pygi: I did, but I might have missed that bit, cheers
<chantra> pdebuild seems to do the job, thanks
<chantra> do you guys have any tricks for using pdebuild in a multi-chroot environment
<chantra> a bit like we can do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<fdoving> you can use the --pbuilder switch.
<fdoving> then you can choose the pbuilder command to use.
<chantra> tried pdebuild --pbuilder pbuilder-custom
<chantra> this does not seems to work, might try to make some custom pdebuild-xxx so it calls the pbuilder with the appropriate args
<pygi> chantra: why are you doing stuff like this? :p
* pygi thinks chantra is complicating no reasons
<chantra> pygi: :)
<chantra> just, some people would like to get a package for dapper
<pygi> it's really not a problem to build :P
<chantra> i don't have any dapper installed on my comp, and not much space left
<pygi> build dapper pbuilder, use "debuild -S -sa" and whatever
<pygi> chantra: we use pbuilder, you know :)
<chantra> pygi: yep i guess :)
<chantra> it just that pdebuild seems to call pbuilder when it is done
<chantra> i was wondering if there were any way to make it call the appropriate pbuilder
<chantra> such as pbuilder-dapper in my case
* pygi uses "debuild" :P
<pygi> chantra: I told you 1000 times how you can build dapper package, so why complicating? :P
<pygi> chantra: change source dir, do "debuild -S -sa" and then "cd .." and "pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc"
<nixternal> LaserJock: just so you know, i have nacho libre right here..it was so bad i kept falling asleep during it
<LaserJock> bummer, glad I didn't buy it
<nixternal> ya, rent do buy it
<nixternal> if you have to see it
<nixternal> jack black as a mexican isn't funny
<chantra> pygi: yep, done and it works, but i just thought we could use pdebuild to trigger the appropriate command
<pygi> chantra: dunno, and don't care too much ^_^
<nixternal> on that note, i am going for some chili..bbl
<pygi> bye nixternal
<chantra> pygi: anyway, has you say, debuild -S -sa;cd ..;pbuilder-dapper build *dsc
<chantra> workss fine :p
<pygi> ofcourse it does :P
<giskard> ahah
<chantra> okie dokie, catch you later guys, and thanks again
<pygi> giskard: still talking?:))))
<pygi> bye chantra
<giskard> pygi, no :D
<pygi> giskard: ok :P
<LaserJock> chantra: pdebuild is just a wrapper around debuild -S + pbuilder
<chantra> LaserJock: okie dokie
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
* LaserJock thinks he definitely needs a rebuilding source packages section in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<pygi> LaserJock: I agree ^_^
* ajmitch needs educating in the ways of MOTU
<pygi> LaserJock: I'd be interested in writing something up for packaging guide for feisty if you allow me
* LaserJock slaps ajmitch across the head with a print copy of the packaging guide
<ajmitch> pygi: I suspect he'll welcome any contributions
<ajmitch> LaserJock: my hero!
* ajmitch is so fortunate to get such abuse
<LaserJock> pygi: if you want. I think I'm going to blog an "Packaging Guide wants You!"
<ajmitch> ok, lunch time, I'm off for awhile :)
<pygi> LaserJock: ok, once you do inform me :) Just tell me what needs writing, and you'll get it in couple of weeks :)
<LaserJock> well, you still need to finish the Edubuntu Handbook
<pygi> LaserJock: I know that :-/
<pygi> LaserJock: working, I'm working :)))
<xopher> How does one build a deb from a .dsc+tar.gz source ? w/o pbuilder. Just need to know the command, have forgotten how its done. Without extracting the source first.
<chantra> LaserJock: maybe a bit extra saying how to manipulate a package
<LaserJock> chantra: mhm
<plugwash> xopher i can't see how you could build it without extracting it
<chantra> like the debuild -sa -S could be explain in pbuilder howto
<plugwash> since the compilers etc will expect there to be a source tree
<LaserJock> xopher: yeah, I think you'd need to do a dpkg-source -x first
<chantra> LaserJock: here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<LaserJock> then debuild
<plugwash> so extract it with dpkg-source , change to the directory its extracted to and then run dpkg-buildpackage
<xopher> LaserJock, allright, thanks..
<chantra> okie got to go, my girlfriend is waiting :s
<chantra> catch u
<LaserJock> chantra: well yes, the problem is how to arrange the information
<chantra> right
<LaserJock> the original goal was that the "Getting Started" section was what you read before starting anything
<pygi> LaserJock: I'd say that the given examples are too artificial
<LaserJock> artificial?
<LaserJock> they are packages in the archives
<pygi> well, yea. Nobody will in reality package a simple hellp world app.
<LaserJock> have you seen the rules for hello?
<LaserJock> it's not trivial
<LaserJock> I think the hello packages are very good to use
<pygi> I know it's not trivial. But other applications are far more complex
<LaserJock> they have a hard enough time getting through that
<LaserJock> you want it more complicated?
<LaserJock> :-)
<pygi> yes :P
<LaserJock> it shouldn't be about the application
<LaserJock> it should be about how to package
<pygi> I understand that
<LaserJock> I would like to include more info on different areas like Java or python
<LaserJock> that might be a bit more advanced
<LaserJock> but they are also very hard to write
* pygi agrees
<LaserJock> I just don't have time to do a lot of writing on it :/
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-14
<ScottK2> dholbach: In that case I gave you I tend that package for Ubuntu, maintain it in Debian, and am an upstream developer.  I see no value in it.
<dholbach> ScottK2: people can for example host their branches of pyspf on that page, they can ask for source imports on LP
<ScottK2> dholbach: But that's not where the project is hosted.
<PriceChild> flithm, woo just appeared
<ScottK2> dholbach: As an upstream, it sounds like LP wants to hijack my package.
<flithm> PriceChild: nice
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: it worked
<slytherin> norsetto: I will have to try this version first. Will let you know tomorrow.
<dholbach> ScottK2: that's one of the features of LP: you can get bzr branches of upstream code and you can get your changes hosted there
<norsetto> slytherin: ok, thanks for your work
<ScottK2> dholbach: But if I'm upstream, I do that on sourceforge.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i think the problem is that LP is forcing you to use it - and becomes very confusing for the users if you don't.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: forcing?
<Hobbsee> it's great when it's a sourceforge equivalent - but you'd never try having sourceforge as a distribution bugtracker.
<slytherin> norsetto: I suppose only png icon is installed not svg. I will check thoroughly.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: for upstream stuff.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: (or did you not parse?)
<dholbach> why don't we discuss this on launchpad-users@
<PriceChild> flithm, great, looking good
<norsetto> slytherin: well, the svg should be installed too, there is a special dir for those
<flithm> PriceChild: excellent!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: because the thing's filled with oopses and translations and such, and i rarely look at it :)
<Hobbsee> S/N ratio for a launcphad user is very low.
<ScottK2> dholbach: So it's of use to people who aren't a Ubuntu dev, debian maintainer, or upstream, but for any of those roles, it just gets in the way.
<slytherin> hmm
<PriceChild> flithm, will just check everything's built, then once my ppa is cleared of old source I'll send it there to build on gutsy so you can grab i386 and 64bit packages on there whilst I check out whether all is still good on hardy.
<ScottK2> dholbach: In that particular case, I invested a couple of hours of my volunteer time with LP devs fixing the bogus page they created.
<norsetto> slytherin: have a look here: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/icon-theme-spec
<dholbach> if you don't want to spend the time but have a specific concern, please let me know
<ScottK2> dholbach: I resent having to have done that to avoid there being wrong information about a program I'm a dev for on some random unrelated site.
<dholbach> I really don't want to discuss LP design ideas
<norsetto> slytherin: should be /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable
<ScottK2> dholbach: The desing ideas ARE the problem
<flithm> PriceChild: great thanks! any thoughts on the udev rule yet?  I tried again this morn to look into it but I'm just not sure how to get it to install that udev file
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: it's not his call.
<dholbach> I'm not a LP developer and I did not design it, I can see use in it. All I can do is talk to people and express your concerns
<ScottK2> Agreed, but that's the problem
<rexbron> Anyone looking for a review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: this is the equivalent of someone cussing me out, because i work on registers, about the stock of our store - which i dont touch.
<Hobbsee> which is not fair.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: He asked for specific problems.  I've given them.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: sure, but give him problems *that he can fix*.
<dholbach> ScottK2: if you can let me know what you'd rather have on those pages, I can pass that on
<Hobbsee> clearly you never learnt the lessons of effective customer bitching.
<PriceChild> flithm, ah yeah I forgot about that... will sort that out next infact. You're sure it works for you(tm)? I'd like to get some ubuntu person to check this isn't a nasty thing we're doing also :)
<norsetto> slytherin: yes, they are installed already, so its just a matter of using dh_icons
<Hobbsee> dholbach: if you want to get on launchpad's tail about getting it to integrate withi MOM, that'd give us comments.  (see -desktop)
<Hobbsee> that would be good.
<PriceChild> flithm, not sure who to ask though :)
<Hobbsee> oh, i'ts keybuk's.  never mind.
<MagicFab> dholbach, ping
<slytherin> norsetto: Then it means that bug is already fixed in hardy. :-)
<Hobbsee> oh noes, it's MagicFab
<dholbach> MagicFab: pong
<norsetto> slytherin: let me check rules
<flithm> PriceChild: yeah good call.  I've tested the file on two different ubuntu boxes and it works great when I install it manually.
<slytherin> norsetto: I guess not. It doesn't have dh_icons
<PriceChild> flithm, good good
<MagicFab> heh - those motu prep talks affected me somehow
<MagicFab> I am looking for information on adding a package to the main seeds (step #7 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess )
<MagicFab> Hobbsee, :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> MagicFab: howzit going?
<norsetto> slytherin: yes, we need a patch to add that then
<ScottK2> dholbach: I'd like them not to be required.
<MagicFab> dholbach, you are forever registered as my MOTU mentor since that meeting :)
<dholbach> MagicFab: you could ask pitti to add it to the seeds
<norsetto> slytherin: don't forget to pass this over to debian too
<ScottK2> dholbach: That's not going to happen I know
<dholbach> ScottK2: in what way are they disturbing you?
<slytherin> norsetto: I will create one. But considering it to be change in debian/ directory I will have to create patch accordingly right?
<MagicFab> dholbach, is it rude to susbcribe him to the bug reports I filed for this already ?
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: Fundamentally the disconnect between LP and Ubuntu developers is unfixable.
<MagicFab> dholbach, or is IRC pinging enough..?
<dholbach> MagicFab: yeah, IRC should be fine
<ScottK2> dholbach: 1.  I often end up on the LP package page instead of the LP/Ubuntu package page by accident.
<norsetto> slytherin: no, just manually add it to rules, what I mean is that we need a debdiff patch from you
<MagicFab> I want piding-otr in main :)
<ScottK2> dholbach: 2.  If one doesn't exist, I'm required to create one before I can link an upstream bug.
<slytherin> norsetto: ok
<ScottK2> dholbach: 3.  When they are wrong, it sucks up my volunteer time to fix.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: use shortcut aliases for launchpad.  problem solved.
<slytherin> norsetto: Target should be hardy right?
<Hobbsee> well, taht solves 1, anyway
<ScottK2> dholbach: 4.  They serve no useful purpose for an Ubuntu deb, a Debian dev, or an upstream that doesn't host on LP
<Hobbsee> 2 is solved by not linking upstream bugs at all.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: Fundamentally it's not solvable.
<Hobbsee> because the upstream bug thing is an confusing abomination anyway.
<ScottK2> Three I would generally ignore, but when they create a page without asking anyone involved in a project I work on, it's tough to leave it wrong
<dholbach> ScottK2: I can pass it on, I generally just think that we should try to find a better forum for that
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: also effective is a metapackage (like kdebase), and saying ti all belongs to kdebase upstream, no matter which kde package it is.  whihc goes to b.k.o, which is fine.  tis an abuse of LP though
<ScottK2> dholbach: It's fundamentally that they are doing something different than what we are doing.
<dholbach> complaining in the #-motu is not really the most efficient way to get in touch with people who can fix it
<ScottK2> dholbach: Conflict is inevitable.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: excluding easier searches, yes.  so effectively preceed it with what you want :)
<ScottK2> dholbach: I've told them all this in #launchpad already
<dholbach> ScottK2: I'm sure we can find ways to please a lot of individual parties
<ScottK2> dholbach: I doubt it.
<ScottK2> dholbach: Fundamentally, I'm forced to work for free on their proprietary development project and I'm not going to do it.
<dholbach> I made notes and will pass it on
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: where's your sense of optimism?
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: besides.  ignore it as much as you can, work around it, and abuse it as required to get shit done.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: That's kind of what I'm doing.
<Hobbsee> there are greasemonkey scripts, aliases, etc.  it works.
<Hobbsee> reportbug, bugs by email.
<Hobbsee> until you try to get into RM, of cours.e
<dholbach> please drop me a mail whenever you come across stuff like this
<ScottK2> dholbach: I really don't see the point.  They are doing something that is different and they aren't going to stop.
<PriceChild> flithm, all still building, latest gutsy at york.pricechild.co.uk/gizmod for you to steal for sf if you want.
<PriceChild> flithm, just i386 there though
<norsetto> slytherin: yes
<ScottK2> dholbach: BTW, your answer about what that pyspf page might be good for was better than the one I got from LP devs.
<flithm> PriceChild: thanks!  will grab.  Lemme know if you figure the udev thing out, and also when / if x86-64 debs are avail
<ScottK2> dholbach: The best answer I got from them, was to the effect of "Trust us, it's gonna be really cool someday."
<PriceChild> flithm, got to wait for a lp person to see my question and remove everything in my current ppa so i can push new source. Will let you know when :)
<PriceChild> flithm, (ppa builds 64bit)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<flithm> PriceChild: okay sounds good
 * ScottK2 has really got to run or he'll be late for the 'fun' meetings
<_polto_> hello all
<dholbach> MagicFab: somebody else does main inclusion reviews too, I just forgot who it was
<Hobbsee> dholbach: iwj
<dholbach> Hobbsee: hmmm, it was somebody else
<dholbach> they discussed it at UDS or something
<Hobbsee> dholbach: no idea about uds, etc.
<dholbach> MagicFab: I'll try to find out
<dholbach> MagicFab: doko seems to be your man too
<_polto_> do somebody know what f**k*g script on the LiveDVD rewrite my (modified) /etc/network/interfaces ? I try to make a LiveDVD with a preconfigured network config.
<_polto_> nobody have an idea about what script rewrite /etc/network/interfaces during boot on LiveDVD ?
<MagicFab> dholbach, I think it would be useful as many packages have actually been approved for main inclusion but only that step (#7) prevents them from making it.. sometime for more than a year
<dholbach> MagicFab: you could also mail ubuntu-devel about it
<MagicFab> dholbach, good idea - duh!
<bddebian> Anyone have a decent 3D Gutsy machine that could test something for me?
<nand`> bddebian: what do you want to test?
<bddebian> A new version of scorched3d that doesn't wanna run on my laptop and I just want to make sure its not my hardware
<nand`> bddebian: it's in the gutsy repos?
<bddebian> No
<Hobbsee> bddebian: the hardy repo version isnt instaslalble anyway
<bddebian> http://www.bddebian.com/packages/ubuntu/scorched3d/
<bddebian> Hobbsee: I know, I'm working on getting the latest upstream :)
<bddebian> I should say trying to help Fuddl
<Hobbsee> :)
<nand`> bddebian: Ok I try (hoping the wireless connection will still work :) )
<bddebian> nand`: Be warned it is a LARGE package :)
<nand`> bddebian: uh wait, the data deb is 18Mo, the binary deb is 200ko, and the orig tgz is 58 Mo??
<nand`> where is the rest?
<bddebian> Oh sorry, the data package is still uploading.  It should be about 56Mb
<bddebian> Should be done now
<nand`> bddebian: yes it is.
<nand`> bddebian: I will probably have for half an hour... If I stay alive until then.
<nand`> s/have/take/
<bddebian> OK thanks!
<bddebian> nand`: Any luck or did you die? :-)
<nand`> bddebian: I'm steadily downloading at 15 ko/s... 60% so far
<nand`> connection is not so good here :)
<bddebian> Doh, OK, thx
<slytherin> norsetto: How do I create base.tgz for hardy?
<norsetto> slytherin: as you did for gutsy
<norsetto> slytherin: you may need the hardy debootstrap though
<slytherin> norsetto: Will I have to first install debootstrap from hardy?
<geser> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> norsetto: Thanks. It will take time to build the .tgz and I am already sleepy. I hope I will have the debdiff got tagtool fix tomorrow. :-)
<norsetto> slytherin: np, take it easy :-)
<nand`> bddebian: Ok got it. I unpack and try now!
 * RainCT is back
<bddebian> nand`: Sweet, thanks!
<nand`> bddebian: The Scorched3d process terminated unexpectedly.
<nand`> when clicking on play
<nand`> (the dialog box)
<bddebian> Yeah, that's what I get :(
<nand`> "
<nand`> Would you like to load the failsafe scorched3d settings?
<nand`> This gives the best chance of working but at the cost of graphical detail." and so on
<bddebian> If you click yes, it still doesn't work right?
<nand`> yes
<nand`> bugreport :)
<nand`> It is a stable release you said? surprising.
<nand`> just a guess : you sure everything is packaged at the right place?
<nand`> bddebian: A french typo in your .desktop file : "un jeu d'artillerie en 3 proche de Scorched Earth"  should be "Un jeu d'artillerie en 3D proche de Scorched Earth"
<bddebian> Ain't MY desktop ;-)
<bddebian> nand`: No I'm in "debugging" mode atm :-(
<bddebian> Which I suck at
<nand`> It's not like the stdout is helping us :)
<bddebian> So I noticed :0(
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Hows it going?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: well, today's 4 hours old, and already turning out to be pretty whacky, so...
<slytherin> What do I do if autotools are introducing some changes in config.guess and config.sub? This changes are visible in debdiff and are unintentional from my side.
<slytherin> geser: this is related to the bug I just discussed with norsetto. I want to attach debdiff to the bug but observed above problem.
<geser> either use filterdiff or edit the debdiff by hand
<slytherin> geser: I don't know how to use filterdiff so I will edit debdiff by hand
<slytherin> geser: what should I do after attaching debdiff? The bugs is currently assigned to me.
<geser> unassign, set to "Confirmed" and subscribe u-u-s
<slytherin> geser: done. :-)
<_polto_> pls, do someone have an idea about what script rewrite my /etc/network/interfaces during boot on LiveDVD ?
<RainCT> if I create a source package that should generate a normal and a -doc package, do I have to choose "single binary" or "multiple binary" on dh_make?
<RainCT> ah nevermind I'll try with cdbs :P
<jpatrick> RainCT: multiple on dh_make
<RainCT> jpatrick: thx
<SWAT> i have a package (debianized) and it's version is 1.1.2-0, should it be 1.1.2-0-ubuntu0 when I package it for ubuntu?
<jpatrick> SWAT: 0ubuntu1
<SWAT> and can I rename the original tar.bz2 to match?
<jpatrick> SWAT: it should be a package_version.orig.tar.gz
<emgent> keescook, around? :)
<keescook> emgent: yup, but in a meeting.  what's up?
<emgent> oh sorry, np
<emgent> i will query you later :)
<SWAT> when I add something to the changelog: last entry: 1.1.2-0, and my new entry contains version: 1.1.2-1ubuntu1. It nags about not finding *_1.1.2-1.orig.tar.gz. Should I just repack the original 1.1.2-package to match or is that nasty?
<geser> SWAT: how is the .orig.tar.gz currently named?
<SWAT> there isn't one. I just unpacked the 1.1.2.tar.bz2 and it contained the files (with the changelog stating the version 1.1.2-1)
<geser> SWAT: change it to 1.1.2.orig.tar.gz and the first entry in debian/changelog should be 1.1.2-0ubuntu1
<bddebian> There was a debian/ dir in the tarball?
<SWAT> bddebian, indeed, it was debianized
<SWAT> geser, thanks
<bddebian> Uhm, there should not be a debian/ dir in the upstream tarball
<SWAT> well, it's there.
<imbrandon> upstream should be asked to remove it from the distribution tarbal
<imbrandon> heya geser bddebian
<geser> Hi imbrandon
<SWAT> what's the fastest way to repack a .tar.bz2 to a .tar.gz?
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> bunzip blah ; gzip blah.tar ; ?
<imbrandon> should be semi simple ( but also noted )
<SWAT> imbrandon, I was thinking of perhaps a command that I didn't know, but that's simple indeed.
<LaserJock> ok guys, I need some hardware advice
<LaserJock> I got these 2 machines
<LaserJock> but I can't get video out on either one
<geser> not even from the BIOS?
<LaserJock> I swapped video cards and still nothing, is that most likely a bad motherboard?
<LaserJock> geser: no
<LaserJock> monitor doesn't seem to get any signal
<imbrandon> LaserJock: any post codes ( e.g. beeps ) ?
<LaserJock> nope
<geser> does it seem to start? fans running etc.
<LaserJock> fans are running
<imbrandon> ok , pull the RAM out and restart it with no RAM, if it dosent beep at you ( complaining there is no RAM ) then its possible the MB is bad
<LaserJock> one had a dead power supply but I fixed that
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ahh
<imbrandon> also have you pulled the bios bateries out ? sometimes the old bios settgings are for AGP vs PCI etc
<imbrandon> and a reset will fix that
<SWAT> if you don't even get a system beep (make sure you have your default bios) that memory is missing, it's really bad.
<imbrandon> and obviously that there is a sys-speaker hooked to the MB :)
<LaserJock> yep, no beep
<SWAT> how old is the hardware?
<imbrandon> and you do have a sys speaker correct
<LaserJock> hmm, I'd guess 5+ years old
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm assuming so
<imbrandon> SWAT: a p4 and a 1800+ amd
<geser> you know now, why you got the hardware
<LaserJock> geser: for sure, but it was free :-)
<LaserJock> I've got 3 old machines sitting here
<SWAT> new mobo then
<LaserJock> I only want to make one good one
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ummm not always will the speaker be hooked up, look near the power switch header on the MB
<LaserJock> imbrandon: and what would I be looking for?
<LaserJock> I don't know why it wouldn't be hooked up
<imbrandon> the headers are normaly marked speaker and have a red and black pair of wire going a short distance to a speaker
<imbrandon> normaly in the front of the case
<geser> LaserJock: download the manual for that MB and check where the speaker should be connected and if it is
<LaserJock> darn it, why can't two motherboards have the same connections
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> it's so difficult to swap out motherboards
<LaserJock> this one has got almost the same connection for the front
<LaserJock> but it's mirrored
<LaserJock> so a missing pin is on the right on one and on the left on the other
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> I really like this case though
<LaserJock> oh cool, a firewire card
<bddebian> Rip out everything but the bare essentials untill you know you at least get video/etc
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what I'm doing
<LaserJock> gonna strip 'em all out and see what I've got and start from scratch
<pochu> LaserJock: thanks for adding the stack traces session to the fridge.
<LaserJock> pochu: np
<bddebian> Yeah, I obviously need to read those :-(
<pochu> thanks DktrKranz for the anjuta sponsorship :)
<DktrKranz> pochu, no. thank *you* :)
<pochu> It was easy :)
<DktrKranz> but it was a bug, and we don't want bugs
<DktrKranz> :)
<DktrKranz> pochu, I checked buildd status, Debian is not affected, so there is no need to push this back.
<pochu> DktrKranz: but if it's needed, shouldn't they add it? Even if they pick up it indirectly...
<DktrKranz> pochu, is automake1.9 needed for other reasons other than FTBFS?
<pochu> DktrKranz: nope, but "***Error***: You must have automake >= 1.9 installed"
<pochu> (from the ftbfs log).
<pochu> Isn't the requirement enough for adding it?
<DktrKranz> Sounds good, so you can ask Debian Maintainer to add it, I think he will be happy
<DktrKranz> (and we reduce deltas)
<pochu> Yup. /me files a bug in the bts
<DaveMorris> siretart: that problem I mentioned earlier, how can I tell it's fixed without harassing you?
<alvinc> are there any MOTU mentors in channel?  the PPA is driving me nuts, and i may not be following all the guidelines (although i have looked for what documentation i can find)
<geser> what problem do you have?
<YokoZar> That reminds me, I never did set up my own PPA
<YokoZar> might as well get to it
<alvinc> i had filed a bug, and i knew the fix, so i thought i'd be a good boy and package it
<alvinc> on my first attempt at dput, i still had "unstable" in the changelog, so of course it barfed
<alvinc> on the second attempt....
<alvinc> let me get the error it gave me
<alvinc> sec
<alvinc> Rejected:
<alvinc> Upload is binaryful, but policy refuses binaryful uploads.
<alvinc> Upload is source/binary but policy refuses mixed uploads.
<alvinc> PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket.
<alvinc> PPA is only allowed for members of launchpad-beta-testers team.
<geser> alvinc: which file did you use for dput?
<alvinc> now, the reason i went through this...  is because i was going to link to the fixes in the bug
<alvinc> the changes file
<geser> which one?
<geser> _source.changes or an other?
<alvinc> looking it up geser, sorry, i'm slow
<Kmos> alvinc: you also need to be member of launchpad beta testers.
<alvinc> ah
<alvinc> so much to learn.  :(
<alvinc> geser:  i don't have a _source.changes.  I think perhaps I passed the wrongs args to debuild, perhaps
<alvinc> another question though...  after i had already done my little bit and debuilt it...  it seems that there is a new revision from the source that i apt-got to work on.
<alvinc> wonder how would i have known that, i wonder?
<geser> alvinc: there should be an -S in the args to get only a source package
<alvinc> it may be that the issue was already fixed, but whoever else is working on it had not seen this bug
<alvinc> although there is no mention of this bug in their changelist
<alvinc> geser:  thanks.  i have a source.changes now
<Kmos> alvinc: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<alvinc> Kmos:  thank you!
<siretart> seems that sistpoty fixed the problem with revu. should work now again
<pochu> siretart: then you have no excuses for reviewing stuff :P
<ajmitch> siretart: what was the issue?
<siretart> ajmitch: apparently bad permissions on the config file, but there might have been some other issues as well, need to talk to sistpoty tomorrow
<ajmitch> siretart: ah
<RainCT> good night
<DaveMorris> siretart: I can confirm it's now working, thanks
<DaveMorris> I'm getting 403 errors however accessing http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/opensg-dev-0711142330/opensg-dev_1.8.0alpha1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<ajmitch> that's expected - you shouldn't be able to access *changes files
<DaveMorris> how come?
<ajmitch> because they are signed & can be used to upload to the actual ubuntu repository if signed by the right person
<DaveMorris> oh, ok.  I hadn't noticed before
<imbrandon> yea they should actualy probably be filtered from the webui
<ajmitch> it's not hard to filter them
<ajmitch> I was digging in that code only 2 days ago
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hows the per user thing comming ?
<ajmitch> haven't touched it since
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> someone else can pick it up if they want
<soren> What's the "per user thing"?
<ajmitch> soren: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/uploads.py?user=superm1@ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> showing all uploads for a specified user on one page
<ajmitch> without any useful info like comments/advocates
<superm1> why me? :)
<soren> Ah, neat.
<ajmitch> superm1: because I spotted your name on the page & knew that you had a few uploads
<superm1> reminds me that i have a few that i need to upload to the archive still :)
 * ajmitch doesn't have any uploads on revu to test with :)
<imbrandon> i dont have any since it changed over
<norsetto> oh well ....night all
<s1024k1> Good morning everyone, could anyone tell me how to modify the changelog after the package is merged?
<soren> s1024k1: Er.. I don't understand the question.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-15
<s1024k1> soren: i grab-merge the package "yappy". my teacher norsetto told me to modify the changelog and add my name and e-mail address. but i don't know how to do.
<soren> s1024k1: It's a textfile. Open it in an editor and go nuts. :)
<soren> Either that or use "dch -e"
<s1024k1> soren: what does "dch -e" do?
<soren> Open the changelog in an editor and changes the e-mail adress to yours.
<s1024k1> soren: okay. thanks. so after i modify the file, must i re-compile the package?
<soren> You could just try it or look at the man page if you think I'm trying to trick you into something evil :)
<soren> s1024k1: Depends on what you want to do.
<s1024k1> soren: i want to upload it of course, after the job has been done...
<soren> s1024k1: Then you just need to create the source package.
<soren> I suppose you could say "compile the source package".
 * ajmitch usually forgets about the various things that dch does
<ajmitch> mostly because emacs spoils me :)
<soren> "spoils" is not quite the word I'd use.
<soren> :)
<s1024k1> soren: i used "grab-merge" to grab and merge the package already. and then i modify the changelog and the control file, add my messages in the files. and what next?
<ajmitch> treats me to a gourmet meal with fine wine? :)
<soren> ajmitch: Rather something that starts with a b and rhymes with cutpuck.
<ajmitch> s1024k1: build the source package with something like 'debuild -S'
 * ajmitch tries to think of a word that fits
<slangasek> "backpacker potluck"
<s1024k1> ajmitch: thank you. after i building the package again i can get something final for upload already?
<ajmitch> that builds a source package - you can use that to build binaries using pbuilder, if you have that setup
<s1024k1> ajmitch: thank you.
 * ajmitch wonders why soren is even still awake & on irc :)
 * soren wonders the same thing
<ajmitch> too busy with server stuff, I'm sure
<slangasek> because he's DEDICATED
<ajmitch> that's one word for it
<Pici> hm
<s1024kb> just now i want to get a new account in irc.freenode.net, but i found that my nick name in irc.ubuntu.com was changed... strange. does anyone know why?
<StevenK> irc.ubuntu.com == irc.freenode.net
<freakabcd> hi all
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, is octave2.9.17 in the repos?
<s1024kb> StevenK: okay, thanks. but i want to use the same nickname to login because people know me as that nick name... but when i use pidgin just now, i saw my nick name was changed...
<s1024kb> StevenK: now i am in window, using Xchat. I am afriaid that when i comeback to Pidgin the same thing happen...
<StevenK> If you try and sign in using both xchat and pidgin the same thing will happen
<freakabcd> how do i find the latest version of a package?
<freakabcd> i think its some ! trigger and ubotu or someone responds
<StevenK> !info libc6 hardy
<ubotu> libc6: GNU C Library: Shared libraries. In component main, is required. Version 2.6.1-6ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 4093 kB, installed size 10136 kB
<freakabcd> !info octave2.9 hardy
<s1024kb> StevenK: no, i am using one tool each time.
<ubotu> octave2.9: GNU Octave language for numerical computations (2.9 branch). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.9.12-2ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 7869 kB, installed size 26840 kB
<freakabcd> umm.. seems like its not in yet
<freakabcd> thanks StevenK
<StevenK> s1024kb: Shrug. Ask in #freenode?
<Fujitsu> freakabcd: Nice timing. The sources are, but something strange happened with wx 2.6, so it was uninstallable.
<freakabcd> wx 2.6 ?
<freakabcd> whats the deps with wx ?
<Fujitsu> It needs the development packages to build, and they are currently uninstallable.
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, ok. i know what you mean. but you said '...wx 2.6...'
<freakabcd> what is this dependency? i don;t think octave needs this
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, is it possible to have the src package backported to gutsy _before_ getting it ready for hardy? i'm pretty sure we can get it going on gutsy
<Fujitsu> It is against policy to backport it before it's known to work in the development release, for good reason.
<Fujitsu> For what reason do you need it so absolutely urgently?
<freakabcd> well, i've already got octave and octave-forge compiled and installed on my machine (manually, no debs). just thought it would be nice to have packages. Also, octave-forge packaging is being discussed actively right now, so i thought i might be able to contribute.
<freakabcd> but i don;t run hardy and can work only in gutsy.
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, were there non-trivial changes to be made changing the src package from 2.9.12 to current(2.9.17?)
<freakabcd> if not, i want to have a go at building a package for octave2.9.17 (obviously this is not to be made for universe, just personal use)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> freakabcd: You could always grab the source package from Debian and build it for your own system. That should work, and is fairly trivial.
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
<superm1_> imbrandon, you here still?
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, i've got another question: why is g77 still noted in deps for some packages? i thought gfortran was a drop in replacement
<Fujitsu> freakabcd: I'm pretty sure it's not a drop-in replacement, as there were/are migration issues.
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, fair enough. would there be some webpage mentioning/discussing the issues encountered?
<Fujitsu> Possibly, but I really have very little idea.
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, is there a way to find out which packages depend on g77 ?
<freakabcd> i'd like to see this list and find out the reasons (if any) they fail to work with gfortran
<Stemp> Is there an howto about "ubuntise" a debian package ?
<Fujitsu> Stemp: Nothing should be necessary, other than rebuilding it in an Ubuntu environment.
<bddebian> Shouldn't need to if it's in Debian
<alvinc> aren't there changelog naming conventions to adhere to?
<alvinc> with regard to Stemp's question
<bddebian> Only if it needs to differ from Debian
<alvinc> well, the repos are named differently, yes?
<alvinc> main/restricted/universe/multiverse versus main/contrib/unstable, etc
<Stemp> and gutsy/hardy
<alvinc> i had built some source the other day, tried to upload it to PPA and it complained to me for the changelog naming
<changelog> changelog? where? :P
<alvinc> lol
<Stemp> :D
<changelog> changelogs don't complain, they bitch and wine :-|
<alvinc> Rejected:
<alvinc> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<alvinc> Further error processing not possible because of a critical previous error.
<alvinc> is what PPA sent to me
<alvinc> red wine?
<alvinc> with cheese?
<alvinc> j/k
<Fujitsu> alvinc: You could have just uploaded to /hardy or /gutsy or similar.
<Fujitsu> Most of our packages have unstable in the changelog, because they're taken bit-identically from Debian.
<alvinc> ah.  as my PPA ignorance shines through
<alvinc> Fujitsu:  If you wouldn't mind pointing me at the correct procedure for that, I'd be much obliged
<alvinc> I tried doctoring it in changelog
<alvinc> it got a little further
<Fujitsu> alvinc: There's a bug open about the lack of documentation.
<Fujitsu> I think that if you upload to ~username/ubuntu/somerelease it should override.
<alvinc> here was the second round of PPA giving me the finger:
<alvinc> Rejected:
<alvinc> Upload is binaryful, but policy refuses binaryful uploads.
<alvinc> Upload is source/binary but policy refuses mixed uploads.
<alvinc> PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket.
<alvinc> lol
<Stemp> so it should be easy, just dch -i and dbuild -S -sa right ?
<alvinc> I really need a motu mentor, by the way.  :(  Been trying to get one for a month now.
<alvinc> I wonder if I can get one on EBay
<Fujitsu> alvinc: You didn't build with -S.
<alvinc> just kidding
<alvinc> Exactly.  :)
<Fujitsu> You tried to upload _i386.changes, when you needed _source.changes.
<alvinc> But it got past the distro error
<alvinc> My final attempt worked
<alvinc> but, as i said, i had doctored the changelog to make it work
<alvinc> (with all due respect to changelog)
<alvinc> here is what i put:
<alvinc> iscsitarget (0.4.15-ubuntu1) gutsy-backports; urgency=low
<alvinc>   * Added initd.ubuntu, due to Ubuntu using /bin/ash as the default target
<alvinc>     of /bin/sh, changed debian/iscsitarget.init (Fixes: #160106)
<alvinc>   * Fix build failure on feisty and gutsy (Fixes: #160104)
<alvinc>  -- Alvin Cura <alvin.cura@gmail.com>  Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:32:37 -0800
<alvinc> i bet i'm not supposed to do that.  :)
<Fujitsu> You can't upload to backports.
<Fujitsu> THat's the RELEASE pocket error. -backports is the BACKPORTS pocket.
<alvinc> ah ha...
<alvinc> *sigh* so much to learn
<Stemp> ubuntu1 not 0ubuntu1 ?
<RAOF> (And that would be the wrong version number if you were uploading to backports)
<Fujitsu> This isn't actually documented anywhere, of course.
<Fujitsu> Stemp: Why are you changing the versioning?
<alvinc> Now I am *really* going to cry
<alvinc> I googled a lot trying to find docs on it
<alvinc> Then I started hack-n-slashing
<Fujitsu> And there is a bug open about allowing uploads to the various other pockets.
<Stemp> Fujitsu: because on my package (midori) Debian packager changed the home page to debian.org
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> What is the Debian version?
<Stemp> actuelly 0.0.10
<Stemp> actually
<Stemp> but the source is since yesterday 0.0.11
<alvinc> i really need to get this stuff all figured out
<Fujitsu> That's the whole Debian version? No -1 or anything?
<alvinc> i've got various fixes for several bugs ready to go, but i'm a moron on uploading.  :(
<alvinc> lots of stuff that broke in linking /bin/sh to dash, you see.
<alvinc> easy fixes
<Fujitsu> alvinc: Why are you uploading them to a PPA?
<Fujitsu> Wouldn't it be better to have them in the Ubuntu archive?
<alvinc> Don't they need to be evaluated first?
<slangasek> Fujitsu: nah, the Debian version for midori is 0.0.10-1
<Stemp> Fujitsu : 0.0.10-1
<alvinc> I was going to have a friend apt-get my work, test it on his boxes
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Thanks.
<alvinc> and then annotate the bug
<Fujitsu> Stemp: Right, so the version with Ubuntu changes would be 0.0.10-1ubuntu1.
<alvinc> I don't know how to upload to the actual archive anyway.  ROFL
<alvinc> I can't even upload to PPA
<alvinc> lol
<Fujitsu> alvinc: You can't upload to the actual archive; you need to attach a debdiff to a bug and get it sponsored.
<Stemp> Thanks Fujitsu, it's so obvious, i feel dumb :D
<alvinc> Thought so.
<alvinc> So that was why I was trying to put it in my PPA and make notes in the bug
<alvinc> So that someone could read it
<Fujitsu> You will need to attach a debdiff and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors. We don't review from PPAs.
<alvinc> I really was about to make a repo at home and make notes in the bug
<alvinc> ah ha.....
<alvinc> googling ubuntu-universe-sponsors now
<alvinc> thanks Fujitsu.  :)
<Fujitsu> Damn, one less word I can tab-complete :(
<Fujitsu> alvinc: Why googling?
<Fujitsu> !sponsor
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sponsor - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> !sponsorship
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sponsorship - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> Must be here somewher.e
<Fujitsu> !uus
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uus - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<alvinc> lol
<Fujitsu> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing.
<Fujitsu> That has useful information on what you're trying to do.
<alvinc> so...  communication here is done in a mailing list?  not in launchpad?
<Fujitsu> What gives you that idea?
<alvinc> You said to subscribe to the list?
<alvinc> I'm sorry, did I misunderstand?
<Fujitsu> Attach a debdiff to the bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to the bug.
<alvinc> Oh.....
<alvinc> Thanks Fujitsu
<Stemp> I have another dumb question, I get the debian package source from midori. I don't want the change (google.com to debian.org).  So I remove the patche directory, run dhc -v 1ubuntu1, add to changelog New upstream ? is that all ?
<Fujitsu> It's not a new upstream...
<Fujitsu> You would say `Dropped patch to change homepage to debian.org' or similar.
<Stemp> ok
<Stemp> and if there is nothing to change ?
<Fujitsu> Then you don't make any changes, and it should be synced automatically.
<alvinc> Fujitsu, for updating a bug in Launchpad....
<Stemp> thanks Fujitsu
<alvinc> If I attach a debdiff, do I check "This attachment is a patch"?
<Fujitsu> alvinc: You should yes.
<Fujitsu> +,
<alvinc> Thank you
<alvinc> Thanks again Fujitsu.  I attached debdiffs and subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug
<Fujitsu> alvinc: Thanks.
<alvinc> Fujitsu, what is the criteria for differentiating universe from multiverse, I'm curious?
<imbrandon> universe is free software, multiverse is not
<imbrandon> btw heya
<alvinc> oh...
<alvinc> okay, so better question:  the difference between restricted and multiverse?  ;)
<alvinc> or partner and multiverse?
<imbrandon> partner is software that is not redistributable except by the vendor , multiverse can be distributed but is not OSS
<imbrandon> restricted is binary blobs required to run the system, like frirmware
<Fujitsu> restricted is like multiverse, but supported.
<Fujitsu> Like main to universe.
<alvinc> thanks.  :)
<LaserJock> restricted doesn't have software does it?
<LaserJock> only drivers and firmware
<imbrandon> afaik yes
<LaserJock> doh, should have looked at imbrandon's response first
<Tm_T> :-p
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It has MySQL documentation too.
<Stemp> I don't know if it's the right channel to post my question but how do you get some extras packages into your pbuilder system ?
<Fujitsu> And probably some other things.
<imbrandon> Stemp: one way is to "sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login" and install them, but that will taint your pbuilder for further use and you should make a backup of the tgz first
<imbrandon> and restore it once finished
<Stemp> I want to include libwebkitgtk and I hope it will be in Hardy ;)
<Fujitsu> We have webkit in Gutsy...
<Fujitsu> !info libwebkitgdk0d
<Fujitsu> !info libwebkitgdk0d gutsy
<Fujitsu> !ping
<Stemp> that's the problem
<ubotu> pong
<Stemp> gdk not gtk
<imbrandon> Web content engine library for Gtk+
<imbrandon> looks gtk to me
<Fujitsu> It is the GTK+ variant.
<Fujitsu> What do you want it for?
<imbrandon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/libs/libwebkitgdk0d
<Stemp> for epiphany-webkit and midori
<Fujitsu> epiphany-webkit builds with the aforementioned package.
<Stemp> http://packages.debian.org/sid/libwebkitgtk0d
<Fujitsu> (I know because I've done it multiple times)
<Fujitsu> We have that in Hardy.
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon> Stemp: its in hardy
<imbrandon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libs/libwebkitgtk0d
<Stemp> yes it's probably in Hardy but in my pbuilder (hardy) it is not :(
 * ajmitch chased hobbsee away
<imbrandon> you probably need to run "sudo pbuilder update" then
<Stemp> I did it
<Fujitsu> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=445060
<ubotu> Debian bug 445060 in libwebkitgdk0d "webkit: should be renamed to libwebkitgtk0d" [Minor,Fixed]
<alvinc> *snicker*
<Fujitsu> alvinc: ?
<alvinc> sorry, spelling error, i found it funny
<alvinc> gdk versus gtk
<imbrandon> Stemp: if you ran pbuilder update and its still not avail then you have other issues
<Fujitsu> It's not a spelling error.
<Stemp> ok imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Upstream renamed it.
<imbrandon> either your not running hardy pbuilder or dont have universe enabled
<imbrandon> the latter is more likely
<Stemp> universe for webkit ?
<imbrandon> libwebkitgtk0d is in universe
 * ajmitch tries not to chase Hobbsee away this time
<RAOF> It's certianly not officially supported by Cannonical :)
<Stemp> why ? not free software ?
<Fujitsu> universe is unsupported free software.
<Fujitsu> Canonical can't support *everything*...
<ajmitch> unsupported or community-supported
<RAOF> *Especially* libraries that haven't even been released.
<alvinc> speaking of Canonical...  what's the name of the team that takes care of main?
<Stemp> but webkit ~= khtml ? no ?
<alvinc> is there stuff to read?
<imbrandon> alvinc: ubuntu-core-dev
<Fujitsu> Stemp: It forked quite some time ago...
<alvinc> frankly i'm still interested in the varrun varlock drama that causes all kinds of headaches when I FAI a new box.  :)
<imbrandon> Stemp: no, its a fork of khtml but != khtml
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sorry.  konvi borked.
<imbrandon> apple forked the code quite some time ago
<ScottK2> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> greetings ScottK2
<imbrandon> ello Hobbsee
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: ok, so you're not running away?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: afraid not.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: How goes the battle against the evil corporate consipiracy?
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: erm...i cant talk about it :)
<ScottK2> Ah.  Right, wouldn't want to dampen the mood.
 * ScottK2 holds big smile and thinks happy thoughts
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ScottK2> So I came back to my hotel for lunch today and found the building next door to be on fire.  Hopefully the evening will be quieter.
<Hobbsee> as in, i did not get a gag order - i'm just choosing not to talk about various bits, related to canonical.
<TheMuso> Fun.
<Hobbsee> yay, fire!
 * ajmitch takes the matches& petrol away from Hobbsee 
 * Hobbsee still has teh sparklers and looks for an aerosol can.
<ScottK2> It had really great big billowing clouds of black smoke, but actually got put out pretty quickly.
<joejaxx> Good Evening Everyone
<joejaxx> ScottK2: from the build daemons?
<joejaxx> :P
<ScottK2> joejaxx: No, the building next to my hotel.
<joejaxx> interesting
<ScottK2> Business travel is fun!
<joejaxx> :)
<RAOF> Fire is more fun.
<RAOF> But combining the two...
<tritium> ScottK2: no it's not!
<ScottK2> Ah.  forgot the </sarcasm>
<alvinc> gah.  i suspect my question was already answered, but my scroll buffer is full
<alvinc> i'm sorry
<alvinc> here goes:  how does one submit a package from debian experimental for consideration for ubuntu universe?
<zul> the leperchaun told me to burn things
<RAOF> alvinc: You ask for it to be sync'd, after you're really sure that the reason it's in experimental doesn't matter :)
<imbrandon> alvinc: there isnt a strict policy, it could be a sync or could go through REVU, i'd push the REVU way, its in expirmental for a reason
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Why not a sync?
<alvinc> well, it's new, for sure
<ScottK2> If it needs a change to deal with whyever it's in experimental, then merge it.
<alvinc> lzma-dev and friends for squashfs
<imbrandon> ..... , its in expirmental for a reason
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Right, but REVU doesn't help that.
 * Fujitsu would strongly advise against touching squashfs stuff.
<alvinc> Fujitsu: ?
<imbrandon> ScottK2: it dosent? Reviewing new software before it hits the arcive never hurt either
<Fujitsu> The Canonical distro team will likely deal with that, and get annoyed if you meddle in it.
 * ScottK2 has only sync'ed from Expermental twice. One of those experiences convinced him to be very careful.
<alvinc> Scottk2:  Do tell?
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Sure, but a sync bug sent to UUS would accomplish the same goal.
<alvinc> Fujitsu:  Annoyed?  Did I step in a steaming pile with this one?  ;)
<Fujitsu> alvinc: What are you wanting to do with squashfs? No sponsor is going to go near that, as it's very touchy and prone to breaking on a lot of systems.
<alvinc> Ah...
<ScottK2> alvinc: Yeah, I didn't understand why something was in experimental, needed it to fix something else, and then it took 3 or 4 uploads to fix why it was in experimental, including having to Tom Sawyer nixternal into fixing some stuff I couldn't figure out.
<ajmitch> no wonder he went to vista...
<alvinc> I'll try to be brief.  Kind of hard to do.
<StevenK> Having to Tom Sawyer? Is that like volutold?
<alvinc> AMD low power hardware comes cheaply here in Silicon Valley these days
<alvinc> Cisco hardware is still very spendy
<pwnguin> fixing bug is so fun!
<alvinc> But use of aufs, squashfs with lzma, and friends....
<alvinc> I can fit a Quagga router onto a compact flash
<ScottK2> StevenK: No, it's convincing someone that work you are supposed to do will be fun/interesting so you won't have to do it.
<alvinc> And run it reliably drawing 47 Watts
<alvinc> very very useful
<pwnguin> 47 sounds like a lot
<StevenK> ScottK2: Haha
<ScottK2> StevenK: In Tom Sawyer, he gets told to paint a fence and does such a great job convincing other people painting the fence is fun, he avoids having to do it himself.
<imbrandon> 47 watts is kinda high for low power stuff :)
<alvinc> So with the combination of google, and some headache in finding the right concoction of sources.list.....  I got a kernel to build which boots squashfs/lzma off a compact flash, does the AUFS thing, and voila
<pwnguin> ScottK2: they dont read american classics in australia i guess
<alvinc> Well, of course imbrandon...  But this is off-the-shelf parts
<ScottK2> pwnguin: I guess not.
<pwnguin> alvinc: So is ARM
<alvinc> You can Newegg yourself an OSPF router this way, without funky cases and MiniITX boards and stuff
<ScottK2> StevenK: You should read some Mark Twain.  Very good stuff.
<StevenK> I have read Tom Sawyer - it was just over ten years ago
<ScottK2> StevenK: Ah.  OK then.
<alvinc> pwnguin:  I have a little Buffalo Terastation which I believe has an embedded ARM processor
<StevenK> ScottK2: You'll let me off with that, then? :-)
<imbrandon> alvinc: heh or i can just load openwrt on a off the shelf router, but i see your point ( kinda )
<alvinc> I'm a little less than impressed at its RAID-5 performance
<pwnguin> heh
<ScottK2> StevenK: No.  I was just about to mention that's probably 15 years more recently than I've read it.
<pwnguin> well, raid5 involves xoring massive amounts of data
<alvinc> But seriously, at today's cheap RAM  prices...  I cheaply scored a MicroATX mobo, and Antec Minuet case, 2G of ECC RAM, la la la
<StevenK> ScottK2: Hah
<alvinc> no moving parts
<alvinc> Compact Flash booting
<alvinc> Anyhow, it was nifty
<pwnguin> alvinc: there's also gumstix ;)
<alvinc> pwnguin:  You're gonna make me google that now?  lol
<pwnguin> alvinc: and the nlsu2
<imbrandon> gumstix or nano-itx
<imbrandon> w/ cf cards
<pwnguin> alvinc: the nlsu2 should have better raid5
 * pwnguin wonders if anyone ever got a gumstix to commect to a usb keyboard, mouse and CRT
<pwnguin> because that would be l33t
 * nixternal remembers ScottK2's intentions
<alvinc> wow, that's slick.  but pwnguin...  that gumstix mobo costs the same as all the parts i picked up new...  with a hole lot less RAM
<nixternal> cvc cook ScottK2.recip
<nixternal> +e
<pwnguin> alvinc: well, you're ignoring the power costs, but point taken ^_^
<nixternal> cvc add ScottK2.recipe && cvc ci
<pwnguin> alvinc: size costs
 * ajmitch throws a copy of vista at nixternal 
<alvinc> :-D
 * nixternal throws a copy of Foresight at Ubuntu!
<imbrandon> alvinc: you can build a nano-itx x86 with the same specs much smaller and just as cheap
<nixternal> :p
<alvinc> size, power, and parts to break
<alvinc> also your gumstix thing means less spares to keep
<imbrandon> plus less watts
 * nixternal wants PICO!
<pwnguin> less spares of what?
 * nixternal needs PICO MONEY!
<nixternal> well, mucho money
<alvinc> things that break.  RAM sticks, spare mobo, spare cpu, etc etc etc
<imbrandon> yea the pico-itx are sweet, just a bit pricy
<nixternal> yup
<zul> whoever uses pico should be shot
<nixternal> imbrandon: you got me addicted sauce lapper
<imbrandon> nixternal: lol
<alvinc> If I were to propose using such a thing at work, I'd definitely get the book thrown at me for spares and stuff
<nixternal> with that damn c64 keyboard
<alvinc> I had to sneak in a Quagga router as it was
<imbrandon> zul: a MB CHIP RAM , basicly everything in a pack of smokes == pico-itx
<alvinc> I wanted to subnet, and they didn't want to spend on a Cisco, and I didn't want to wait
<zul> imbrandon, ah i thought you were talking about the text editor
<pwnguin> alvinc: spare RAM?
<pwnguin> nonsense
<alvinc> I don't know about you, but DDR2 has been pretty finicky for me
<alvinc> 240 pins, more stuff to screw up
<pwnguin> well its soldiered on pretty good and designed to be compatible
<imbrandon> alvinc: either way , back to the real topic, yes you can do the expirmental thing, but you will have to bug the right people in core-dev as it will be tricky
<alvinc> I've had 3 different guys at work break several boxes by He-Man(tm)-ing the RAM into slots
<nixternal> [       zul] imbrandon, ah i thought you were talking about the text editor
<nixternal> gahahah!
<nixternal> zul: so people who use nano should be shot as well right?
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> lets get um!
<pwnguin> nano's nice when emacs isnt installed
<pwnguin> :P
<alvinc> vi 4tw
<alvinc> sorry.  :)
<imbrandon> cant nano run IN emacsOS ?
<nixternal> vi vi vi - the mark of the beast!
<crimsun> nixternal uses notepad.exe from Vista.
<zul> nixternal: oh hell yes
<pwnguin> imbrandon: of course. but why?
<nixternal> I am using Emacs in Foresight :)
<pwnguin> imbrandon: it also can run vim :P
<imbrandon> any text editor that i can start but not close without reading a manual ( vi AND emacs ) isnt for me
<nixternal> lol
<alvinc> so embarassing.  am i the only person who doesn't live their whole life in emacs?
<nixternal> imbrandon: emacs manual? you mean bible?
<alvinc> i've seen some people do crazy stuff in emacs.  lol
<imbrandon> nano for life!
<nixternal> I don't think I have seen any emacs documentation smaller than an entire encyclopedia index
<alvinc> nano comes from pico, doesn't it?  the editor that came with pine?
 * pwnguin wrote a small guide ages ago, just enough to write ML programs
<imbrandon> i even used up 100k of my 1.1mb space on my router to install nano ;)
<pwnguin> nano and pico are related, yes. one is not GNU free enough I gather
<imbrandon> alvinc: no it works like pico but no code is the same, pico/pine are non-free
<alvinc> you know, it tried using emacs on my ibm 3170 terminal in 89.  it crashed a lot.
<alvinc> and i never used it since.  lol
<pwnguin> any editor that decides deleting a new line is a different mode than writing text gets a -- in my book :P
<imbrandon> nano == pico emulator so to speak, no code in common
<alvinc> ah.  it is the OSS descendant, i get it
<alvinc> although funny, i didn't realize pico/pine wasn't free
<Flannel> I'd use the term 'clone' not emulator
<alvinc> we downloaded it and built it all the time
<imbrandon> alvinc: sure but you cant distribute binarys of it per the Uni Wash lic
<pwnguin> alvinc: Free Enough.
<alvinc> well, on SunOS 4.1.1_U1 through Solaris 2.5.1, anyway.  ROFL
<ScottK2> alvinc: IIRC you aren't free to modify it and distrubute.
<alvinc> oh...  that's right
<alvinc> i remember it now.  you're right.  U-Dub didn't let you do that.  but you could download it and make at reckless abandon
<imbrandon> only source, and un-modified source at that
<Stemp> Bye all, thanks a lot for your help. But I'm sure I will be back soon :D
<pwnguin> hmm. i wish i could use yahoo pipes to make a diff between rss feeds
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> y?
<pwnguin> ive got a pipe set up to nab from 4 feeds and union/uniq them
<imbrandon> you know, i have noticed, fluxbox + small apps isnt any slower on this computer than a full blown gnome or kde desktop
<pwnguin> i wanna know which elements don't have a corresponding one in another feed
<pwnguin> ie, the elements with only one source
<imbrandon> err faster
<pwnguin> also, i'd like to add an enclosure to the feeds
<pwnguin> so liferea can automatically launch a torrent on new episodes ;)
<alvinc> have a good one folks, thanks for the q&a
<pwnguin> awesome. compiz locked up my desktop again
<crimsun> echo $?
<crimsun> err, sorry
<tritium> crimsun: you're fond of aptitude, yes?
<crimsun> "fond" is imprecise; I would rather be disconnected from the package manager completely.
<crimsun> (I tend to use it more often than apt-get, however.)
<tritium> As do I.  It typically works well for me, but not tonight.  I was expected it to remove the dependencies of xubuntu-desktop.  It did not, however.
<tritium> s/expected/expecting
<crimsun> right, that symptom appears to have struck numerous times
<tritium> Is that so?
<crimsun> for that particular metapackage, yes.  I can't speak for others.
<tritium> Okay, thanks for the info.
<tritium> Not that I didn't love xfce.  I did, after all.  But I was just checking it out.
<freakabcd> i am getting an error when i try to build refblas3 using gfortran-4.1 instead of g77
<freakabcd> i modified the dsc file, the control file and rules file. everything is built and the tests pass as well. just at the end dh_gencontrol says:
<freakabcd> warning: can't parse dependency ${gfortran-4.1}
<freakabcd> error: error occurred while parsing Depends
<freakabcd> how do i correct this?
<freakabcd> the resulting debs will be for personal use only
<LaserJock> phew, got that done
<LaserJock> now I've got a new gutsy box
<Hobbsee> yay!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: must be hardy time, then.
<LaserJock> hmm, possibly
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<LaserJock> ah, right
<LaserJock> geeze, I'm still feeling so crappy
<LaserJock> but I'll try
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> good to see you're still alive enough for irc
<crimsun> freakabcd: incorrect syntax & semantics.
<ajmitch> though I suspect that they'd have to prise a laptop out of your coffin ;)
<StevenK> Muahaha
<crimsun> freakabcd: that is, if that's precisely what you have in your modified debian/control
<freakabcd> crimsun, i was kinda expecting that you would be the one to respond
<crimsun> (I have no idea how to interpret that.)
<freakabcd> heh, anyway i changed ${g77} to ${gfortran-4.1} in the Depends line for the dev package
<freakabcd> shouldn;t that have been just gfortran-4.1 instead?
<crimsun> right, the ${} is wrong
<freakabcd> great. i did that and built the debs already and was waiting for someone to respond
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you know it
<freakabcd> one interesting question: why would installing ubuntustudio-sounds would uninstall ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-sounds ?
<StevenK> Probably because ubuntu-sounds and ubuntustudio-sounds conflict, due to having the same files
<freakabcd> i can understand it removing(replacing rather) ubuntu-sounds, but why would it want to uninstall ubuntu-desktop as well?
<crimsun> what StevenK said
<freakabcd> what i just said
<crimsun> (see `apt-cache show ubuntustudio-sounds|awk '/^Conf/'`)
<LaserJock> ubuntu-desktop deps on ubuntu-sounds I think
 * StevenK beats crimsun with grep
<crimsun> and what LaserJock just said.
<freakabcd> lol
<LaserJock> we tag team it here
 * StevenK high fives LaserJock and crimsun 
<freakabcd> i understand it from the package point of view. but don;t understand it from a user point of view
<TheMuso> Yes, ubuntu-sounds and ubuntustudio-sounds share the same filename space, so must conflict.
<crimsun> and there's the man who packaged it.
<freakabcd> if i want a different sound 'theme' why would my desktop metapackage need to be uninstalled so that further upgrades might create problems?
<TheMuso> For UbuntuStudio, we wanted different sounds to what are on offer for Ubuntu.
<freakabcd> TheMuso, sure. and i love the ubuntustudio-sounds compared to ubuntu-sounds
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Because ubuntustudio-desktop depends on ubuntustudio-sounds, which conflicts with ubuntu-sounds, which is depended on by ubuntu-deskto.
<StevenK> freakabcd: Because ubuntu-desktop Depends on ubuntu-sounds. If ubuntu-sounds gets removed ubuntu-desktop needs to be
<TheMuso> desktop
<freakabcd> grr.. i'm not talking about the package point of view!
<TheMuso> Well theres not much more to it.
<freakabcd> i mean, you guys allow various GDM themes to exist, various usplash themes to exist.
<TheMuso> So far as I see it.
<freakabcd> why not various sound 'themes' ?
<crimsun> freakabcd: well, the "user" frustration is due to some packaging issues.
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Because the architecture in GNOME does not yet allow this.
<TheMuso> I wrote a spec to try and address this, at least from a packaging perspective, but that spec hasn't been considered for a development summit yet.
<freakabcd> TheMuso, really? it should be pretty trivial to work around. maintaining symlinks and all
<TheMuso> This is something I'd like to see addressed also.
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Unfortunately, its not quite that easy.
<TheMuso> And its all got to do with how GNOME stores sound event configurations.
<TheMuso> Which, might I add, is separate to gconf, and, the config files also store sound event translations.
<freakabcd> really? afaik all gnome needs is to have the right filenames for the various sounds.
<TheMuso> So, things are very much nontrivial.
<freakabcd> so symlinking the right files shouldn;t be a non-trivial *workaround*
<TheMuso> freakabcd: But if you want multiple schemes, you want different filenames, to be able to set a scheme by default, etc.
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Doing that gets you into the apckaging trap we are already in.
<TheMuso> packaging
<crimsun> (which arguably KDE does properly)
<freakabcd> crimsun, how does kde the sound theme thingamajiggy?
<crimsun> I think we lamented this at the pizza place during UDS-Boston
<TheMuso> crimsun: We did.
<ajmitch> mmm, pizza
<TheMuso> I'd work on it, but it requires desktop team/GNOME colaboration.
<crimsun> freakabcd: it's not so much sounds but themes in general in KDE.
 * TheMuso ate a lot of pizza in Boston...
<freakabcd> crimsun, so entirety of themes are b0rken in gnome?
<TheMuso> GNOME simply does not allow a custom sound theme mechanism.
<freakabcd> i don;t think so. just the sounds aren't part of the themes yet. which i believe is true for kde too!
<TheMuso> s/allow/have/
<crimsun> freakabcd: no, not the /entirety/
<TheMuso> IMO whats needed is something like what Windows has, where you can create custom themes, load, and save presets etc.
 * TheMuso is unaware as to whether KDE has such a setup.
<freakabcd> TheMuso, yes. and for the moment we can do it as a workaround with symlinks
<tonyyarusso> eww
<TheMuso> freakabcd: If you want to package the themes, no you can't.
<tonyyarusso> Shouldn't there just be a gnome/themes/sound/somesoundtheme kind of setup?
<TheMuso> And also note, that by default, only the startup and shutdown themes are enabled by default.
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: Yes.
<nand`> Hiya!
<freakabcd> sure you can. just put the themes in their own directories. then just synlink the right directory to 'default'
<freakabcd> or 'current'
<tonyyarusso> TheMuso: Would that be very difficult to do?
<crimsun> freakabcd: yes, that's akin to what already is done.
<nand`> I have a question : when I'm triaging, how do I close bug which are obviously non bug? "Invalid" ?
<TheMuso> tonyyarusso: No, once we decide where else to put the sound event name translations.
<freakabcd> crimsun, which is why i said it is a non-trivial *workaround*
<crimsun> freakabcd: now to do it all properly, the alternatives system could be used.
<freakabcd> crimsun, yes. thats a step further. but still a non-trivial *wordaround*
<TheMuso> crimsun: WHich is what I proposed in my spec. Atm, ubuntustudio has to use dpkg-divert...
<crimsun> freakabcd: right, what TheMuso just said.
<freakabcd> err.. wait a minute./.
<TheMuso> The UI and architecture changes can come later.
<freakabcd> i've been using the complete opposite word!
<freakabcd> it is a *trivial* workaround
<freakabcd> is what i meant to say
<freakabcd> grr.. head's not working after lunch
<crimsun> you may have meant "trivial," but it's currently "non-trivial."
 * Fujitsu notes that crimsun and TheMuso do really know what they're doing, so should probably be trusted on this matter.
<ajmitch> symlink migration is never fun to do
<crimsun> well, TheMuso's the authority on this one, since he suffered through it
<freakabcd> crimsun, its a bit difficult for me to realise why it would be non-trivial. but i will agree with you for now
<crimsun> freakabcd: see the bit above about config files also storing sound event translations
<crimsun> (I need to catch the train, so I'll have to step out here)
<freakabcd> yeah, best would be to do it in a proper way.
<TheMuso> Which means doing it in GNOME.
<TheMuso> If I had the coding knowledge, I'd step right in and help do it.
<freakabcd> TheMuso, yeah. i'll check if i can peek into it
<tonyyarusso> Is there anything besides Flash that is still a PITA on 64-bit?
<StevenK> Flash on 64 bit should be okay
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Isn't Flash no longer a pain, due to nspluginwrapper automation?
<TheMuso> By saying that, I am able to read, and work out msot C code, and could work out how to modify the UI to add a text box element etc, with time and patience. However, the real problem here is working out where to put the translations for the sound events.
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: I didn't actually know about that.
<freakabcd> translations ?
<tonyyarusso> StevenK, Fujitsu: So it's pretty much on par these days?
<Fujitsu> As far as I know.
<TheMuso> freakabcd: The names of sound events in languages other than English.
<nand`> btw, is REVU uploading still broken?
<Fujitsu> There are issues with Wine, probably, but that's about it.
<freakabcd> err.. storing the sound event translations is the problem?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Both ajmitch and I are happy playing WoW on amd64
<TheMuso> Most likely you'd make them part of the aprent app that includes the sound applet, but there is likely a reason why the translations are stored where they are.
<tonyyarusso> good to know
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Not storing them, deciding where and how to store them, other than in the config files themselves.
<TheMuso> freakabcd: eIf you are using GNOME, take a look at /etc/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist
<freakabcd> how are the other translations for themes stored?
<TheMuso> freakabcd: Visual/window themes are done correctly, and have translation issues sorted.
<TheMuso> As far as things go for Sound, having a sound theme was just a quick add-on for GNOME, as it didn't seem to be of importance.
<TheMuso> Thats how I see things anyway.
<freakabcd> where are the translations for the visual elements stored?
<freakabcd> somewhere through gconf?
<TheMuso> freakabcd: No, I'm not entirely sure.
<TheMuso> Gconf is never used for translation.
<TheMuso> translations
<freakabcd> no..
<TheMuso> As far as I know anyway.
<freakabcd> i meant gconf prolly has the location of the translations storage
<TheMuso> Nope I don't think so.
<TheMuso> Translations are either part of te theme index file itself, or somewhere in /usr/share/locale. I think its the former.
<freakabcd> so we just need to find out where the translations for the visual elements are stored and lump the sound translations along in the same place
<TheMuso> freakabcd: No, I think not., They are two totally separate systems.
<TheMuso> As I said earlier, it seems most sensible to ahve the translations as part of the main applet package, which is gnome-control-center I think
<TheMuso> However, again as I said, there may be a good reason why the translations are stored where they are.
<freakabcd> err..
<freakabcd> bddebian, are you taking care of debian packages?
<LaserJock> freakabcd: some, he does a lot of stuff
<bddebian> freakabcd: I am on the games team now, why?
<freakabcd> sorry, maybe my mistake.
<freakabcd> when you do an apt-get source. it grabs the dsc, orig.tat.gz and the diff.gz file ,right?
<bddebian> Well I am maintainer for colorgcc as well
<freakabcd> then how does it apply the patch?
<freakabcd> goes into the src dir, then patch -p1 < ../blah.diff ?
<Fujitsu> freakabcd: It gunzips it and pipes it through patch, presumably.
<Fujitsu> Something like that.
<freakabcd> Fujitsu, with p1 ?
<freakabcd> or p0 ?
<Fujitsu> p1, I would presume.
<StevenK> exec('patch','-s','-t','-F','0','-N','-p1','-u',
<StevenK>                  '-V','never','-g0','-b','-z','.dpkg-orig') or &syserr(_g("exec patch"));
<freakabcd> ah, its p1. ok cos i thought it was weird. my bad.
<freakabcd> ok, time for games (badminton) after which i'll build my octave2.9.17 and then start working on building source packages for the various octave-forge bits
<freakabcd> back after few hours
<freakabcd> thanks all
<bddebian> uhm...
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<LaserJock> darn, we almost went two whole hours of silence
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
 * StevenK works on giving LaserJock a complex like the one he gave mvo
<imbrandon> ugh i give up on django untill ajmitch or Fujitsu can school me
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<warp10> Hi all!
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but it's supposed to be so easy :-)
<imbrandon> hah
<imbrandon> better in the long run maybe but easy it is not
<LaserJock> I did the "hello world" but that's about it so far
<dholbach> heya TheMuso
<dholbach> TheMuso: MOTU BLOGGING!
<dholbach> :-)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Thats just one of the things I intend to blog about.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i dident even get that far before i said <?php echo "Hello Wold"; ?> :)
<dholbach> TheMuso: ROCK :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: pfftt
 * Hobbsee ponders blogging
<LaserJock> uh oh
 * imbrandon hides Hobbsee's keyboard
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: this is a laptop.  :P
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> even more of a trick then, now its a tablet :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Of course you want to blog. Everybody on planet Ubuntu wants to blog.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: why?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Because there is so much interesting stuff to talk about.
 * StevenK gags TheMuso
<TheMuso> StevenK: That doesn't stop me typing you know.
 * StevenK unplugs TheMuso's speakers
 * TheMuso pats his braille display.
 * StevenK places a null modem between the computer and the braille display's serial interface
 * TheMuso uses his notebook with internal speakers.
<TheMuso> ...and prepares to write another entry, just to stir StevenK.
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Just because they're internal doesn't mean they can't be unplugged
<imbrandon> just pour water on the speaker cones
<imbrandon> if it dont mess the speakers it'll get the proc
<TheMuso> imbrandon: ssh. Don't give him any ideas.
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Actually, the processor may miss out, depending where on the board you hit
<imbrandon> man
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yes, you really really should blog, considering when your last entry was written...
<\sh> moins
<pwnguin> pochu: your liferea bug has the wrong version listed in the title :P
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: there.  blogged.
<imbrandon> ugh LaserJock mr edubuntu how good is your ltsp-foo ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: you could also ask ogra :)
<imbrandon> heh, true
<imbrandon> i just wanna build a ppc ltsp root on a x86
<imbrandon> without installing ubuntu first on the ppc heh
<Jazzva> What's the process in case of FTBFS sync from Debian? Should I supply the .debdiff that will fix the source?
<Hobbsee> Jazzva: usually a good idea
<Hobbsee> does it ftbfs in debian too?
<Jazzva> Hobbsee: Dunno... I will setup a debian chroot to test.
<Jazzva> Hobbsee: It looks like it's ok. The version that fails to build in Ubuntu is in Debian...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Very good. You really should do it more often. :p
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it was to customers_suck, though
<TheMuso> heh
 * ajmitch waves
<Hobbsee> greetings ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, it looks like it was a mistake to post to launchpad-users. I've had three seemingly random people reply privately saying `[they] want [their] Ubuntu' or similar, completely offtopic.
<huats> morning everyone
<Fujitsu> Hi huats.
<KillerKiwi2005> kubuntu live cd - xdg utils cant install.. does anybody have a fix work around?
<StevenK> Blah. WoW randomly pauses
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: the first reply was so awesome
<Amaranth> "Hi I'm on the universe security team and would like launchpad to do this, this, and that" "universe doesn't have security support, you should talk to the universe security team to see what they need"
<pochu> pwnguin: lol, right :)
<pwnguin> pochu: so im trying some advanced liferea stuff here with torrents.
<pwnguin> pochu: but i cant figure out how to get liferea to launch azureus on enclosure urls
<pochu> pwnguin: no idea, but you can ask in #liferea :)
<pochu> oh, you're there!
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> kinda small
<pwnguin> surprsing really
<pwnguin> liferea's rather nice
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: liferea probably has it blacklisted to preserve your sanity.
<Fujitsu> It is rather nice, yes.
<pwnguin> ?
<pwnguin> oh azureus
<pwnguin> well, any torrent would do, even bittornado
<pwnguin> the deal is, it keeps asking me what to do with an enclosure of type org/get/984023
<pwnguin> i guess its just that feed
<DaveMorris> Hi, I've uploaded a new version of my package (opensg-dev) to revu after fixing the issues siretart found with the previous upload.  Can someone take another look at it for me please.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=opensg-dev
<siretart> DaveMorris: I'm currently busy at work.sorry :(
<DaveMorris> np, I really only mentioned your name to say I'd fixed your comments
 * DaveMorris Should of learnt to package with a simpler program
<siretart> DaveMorris: please use the correct syntax in debian/changelog, so that the bug gets closed on upload
<siretart> DaveMorris: and tbh, I'd keep the config.status rule, call configure from there and depend from the build rule
<TheMuso> \whois \sh
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> \sh: Re your ldtp merge. You managed to leave Maintainer: as part of the XSBC-Original-Maintainer.
<TheMuso> \sh: And, generally one doesn't need to mention any previously closed bugs in a new changelog entry for a merge, since they are documented earlier in the merge changelog.
<DaveMorris> siretart: I had that before but it seemed not to be working, I'll have a look to see if I was doing something wrong.  Regarding the changelog syntax, do you know of a package I could use as an example
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I've seen some uploads by other MOTU (I won't name names) which are 'Maintainer: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>'
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Right.
<TheMuso> Sounds interesting.
<siretart> DaveMorris: the syntax is ' LP: #12345', see hardy-changes@l.u.c mailing list archive for examples
<DaveMorris> thanks
<siretart> DaveMorris: the generated .changes file must contain a Launchpad-Fixes-Bugs header
<siretart> that's what the archive looks at
<StevenK> Hrm. test, aren't you supposed to you know, exit 1 and kill make?
<s1024kb> RAOF: hi, want to ask you some questions...
 * StevenK replaces test with an exit. Skip that, make
<s1024kb> dholbach: excuse me, may i ask you some questions about merge?
<dholbach> s1024kb: sure, fire away
<dholbach> s1024kb: just ask in the channel, somebody will reply :)
<\sh> TheMuso: hmm...I would say it's a copy and paste bug ,-=)
<\sh> TheMuso, will provide a fixed debdiff soon
<s1024kb> dholbach: thanks. yesterday i followed my teacher and have merged my first package with "grab-merge". He told me to do the last step. So i should modify the changelog and control file in the /debian?
<s1024kb> dholbach: shall i replace "-- Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>" with my own name and e-mail address in changelog?
<dholbach> s1024kb: yes, you should do that and explicitly list what kind of changes are necessary over the debian version
<TheMuso> \sh: Ok thanks. I've left a comment int he bug also.
<s1024kb> dholbach: and then i modify the control file? i replace "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Team <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>" with my own name and e-mail address?
<Fujitsu> s1024kb: Which package is this?
<s1024kb> Fujitsu: yappy
<dholbach> s1024kb: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField has more documentation on it - depends if it's in main or universe
<dholbach> (update-maintainer of the ubuntu-dev-tools package will do it for you too)
<s1024kb> dholbach: so i only modify the changelog, add the list of changes and then use "debuild -S", my name and my e-mail will be updated automatically?
<dholbach> s1024kb: it won't get updated in debian/control
 * Fujitsu recommends that the Maintainer field be set to the properly compliant value.
<s1024kb> dholbach: so i have to modify it by hand?
<dholbach> <dholbach> (update-maintainer of the ubuntu-dev-tools package will do it for you too)
<dholbach> thank god somebody wrote the tool :-)
<s1024kb> dholbach: excuse me, what command i should type? (sorry, this is my first time...)
 * TheMuso has been thinking of changing it slightly so it only changes debian/control, and doesn't add a changelog entry. I sometimes think that the changelog entry it adds is sometimes too verbose...
<dholbach> install ubuntu-dev-tools, then run update-maintainer
<dholbach> TheMuso: good idea
<dholbach> I had cases, where I sponsored an upload and the updated maintainer field was missing; update-maintainer changed the changelog so that I was the "uploader"
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yes theres that too.
<TheMuso> I'll do that now.
 * dholbach hugs Super-TheMuso
<TheMuso> lol
 * TheMuso hugs dholbach back.
<dholbach> :-)
<s1024kb> dholbach: so what i must do by hand is to add the change list to the changelog? Is it all what i should do?
<dholbach> s1024kb: if the rest of the merge looks good to you, yes, that should be it
<s1024kb> dholbach: i even don't need to update my name and e-mail address, i only write the change list, and run the tool to gen my name and e-mail?
<dholbach> s1024kb: update-maintainer will only make changes debian/control (according to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField)
<TheMuso> Hmm. Maybe we should also switch update-maintainer-field to use rmadison, so one can use it in gutsy for example, yet let it still find a package in hardy.
<StevenK> TheMuso: It uses apt-cache currently?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Aye, apt-cache madison.
<s1024kb> dholbach: okay, so plus my name and e-mail adding to the changelog. Okay?
<StevenK> Right, that should be easy to kill.
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<TheMuso> And, I think this code could be cleaned up a little... Especially the code that displays usage info...
 * StevenK bzr pull's down ubuntu-dev-tools
<dholbach> s1024kb: yes
<StevenK> TheMuso: Do you want to do it, then? :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I'm going to be adding an extra command-line argument, so yes I'm happy to do it.
<s1024kb> dholbach: so after do these things, my package is finished?
<dholbach> s1024kb: after that you can put it up for review
 * dholbach is off for a bit
<StevenK> Isn't it @foo to have make no echo the command?
<s1024kb> dholbach: so how to put it up for review? (sorry, and thank you very much for guiding me on my first task. :-))
<StevenK> not echo, even
<StevenK> Meh. It doesn't seem to be anyway
<jpatrick> s1024kb: dput revu file.changes
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: It's not a new package.
<s1024kb>  jpatrick: in my case, i should type "dput revu file.changes" in my terminal? but i can't find any file.changes in all the directories?
<s1024kb> Fujitsu: could you please tell me what is the last step?
<jpatrick> Fujitsu: sorry, I thought he wanted to know how to upload to revu
<s1024kb> jpatrick: aha, "she" wanted to, :-) :-)
<jpatrick> s1024kb: sorry, again, I didn't know :)
<s1024kb> jpatrick: okay, i know that you don't know, :-)
<s1024kb> jpatrick: actually i really don't know how to upload to revu, because i had never did it.
<jpatrick> s1024kb: have you made the source package?
<s1024kb> jpatrick: i am not sure. because i only typed "grab-merge" and downloaded all the files and directories, my teacher said that this package was a special one - it happened to be not having conflicts. so he told me last evening to do the final things to finish it.
<jpatrick> s1024kb: there should be a merge-buildpackage script, have you ran that after checking everything?
<s1024kb> jpatrick: not yet. where to find it?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: in the dir of the merge
<s1024kb> jpatrick: ah, see it. and also see another one "merge-genchanges"
<s1024kb> jpatrick: shall i run them both?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: yes, that's right :), buildpackage would be better if you plan to get it into revu
<Fujitsu> jpatrick: It is not a new package. It will not be heading to REVU.
 * persia notes that debdiffs against debian are preferred for merges, rather than uploads to REVU
<Hobbsee> persia: you prefer upstream spew in them?  strange :)
 * Hobbsee likes both, and checks different bits in each.
<persia> Hobbsee: debdiff against *Debian*
<persia> (for merges)
<Hobbsee> oh, against debian.  got it.
<Hobbsee> that's the best of both worlds, then :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Exactly :)
<s1024kb> jpatrickï¼ after running the scripts, the file.change will appear, right?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: should do, but I'm not sure what you're doing..
 * TheMuso does some code cleanup in update-maintainer.
<TheMuso> update-maintainer-field
<zul> morning
<s1024kb> jpatrick: you mean...? i am working in my first package "yappy", i grabbed it with "grab-merge", that was all what i had done.
<s1024kb> persia: hi, persia, just now we're talking about my first package "yappy". Last evening my teacher had explained it to me. i had did the "grab-merge" step, my teacher asked me to finish the last steps.
<StevenK> persia: Can I borrow your C++ skillz?
<persia> s1024kb: Hi.  Have you been successful so far?
<persia> StevenK: Ummm...  I don't have any, but you can certainly borrow my random language code reading skills :)  What's the issue?
<StevenK> persia: Helix doesn't build. Do you want run screaming now?
<persia> StevenK: Nah.  I'm not smart enough to become afraid yet.  Does LP have the buildlog?
<s1024kb> persia: just now i was asking them if i should add the change list to the /debian changlog, and that's okay. there is no conflicts in the merge.
<StevenK> persia: Not a current one, since I redid the build system.
<persia> s1024kb: That sounds right, but you want to check the merge carefully, and only include the changes are are still there.
<StevenK> persia: Let me generate one, hang on
<persia> StevenK: Could you also tell me the package name?  apt-cache and aptitude are stumped :(
<StevenK> persia: helix-player
 * persia wonders why `apt-cache search helix` didn't show that, but isn't going to investigate any time soon
<s1024kb> persia: after that step i can send it for revu?
<persia> s1024kb: No.  You'll want to generate a debdiff against Debian.  See https;//wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for the commands
<s1024kb> persia: okay, thanks. so what is the final thing i should hand out for revu?
<persia> s1024kb: You will want a debdiff for review.  REVU is only for new packages.
<DaveMorris> StevenK: I can look at it building if you want, not sure how much help I'll be but I program in C++
<StevenK> DaveMorris: It's wierd error.
<s1024kb> persia: okay. so after i think that i had finished everything, who shall i contact to or i upload the files myself?
<DaveMorris> StevenK: can you pastebin the log?
<persia> s1024kb: You'll want to upload them to your merge bug, and request sponsorship (see the MOTU/Contributing link)
<StevenK> DaveMorris: I'm still waiting for it to fail
<StevenK> DaveMorris: I'll tell you and persia when I've put the log up
<DaveMorris> thanks
<s1024kb> persia: thanks
<persia> DaveMorris: for context, you can look at the last build log (with a different build system) from http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10375047/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.helix-player_1.0.9-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<persia> The code is full of ugliness that doesn't look good :)
<StevenK> persia: THe current error is nothing like that.
<persia> StevenK: You cleaned up all the warnings?  I'm extremely impressed.
<StevenK> persia: I did not. I changed the build system that means it won't try and do stupid stuff during a build, like CVS checkout.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  It would make sense that release code would be cleaner :)
<StevenK> persia: That, and the fact that the buildds don't have Internet access, so a CVS checkout is pointless
<StevenK> "Build killed with signal 15 after 150 minutes of inactivity"
<StevenK> Woot
<StevenK> persia, DaveMorris: I'm a bozo, re-generating a log that will fail the right way now.
<persia> :)
<persia> RAOF: About kvm/qemu: are you still in discussions, or does it make sense to just push the USB path issue to hardy / gutsy?
<StevenK> persia, DaveMorris: My upstream bandwidth sucks, so if you want the orig tarball, grab it from a mirror.
<persia> StevenK: OK.  Which version?  1.0.9?
<StevenK> Right, 1.0.9
<persia> StevenK: That's already in the archive :)
<StevenK> persia: Right. -0ubuntu2 isn't.
<persia> Aha!  Now I'm beginning to understand...
<nand`> hiya! Is REVU uploading still broken?
<StevenK> persia, DaveMorris: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/helix-sucks/ contains a build log, and the .dsc and .diff.gz for -0ubuntu2
<DaveMorris> nand`: no it's fixed
<DaveMorris> I uploaded around 15 mins ago
<nand`> DaveMorris: Ok thanks.
<DaveMorris> StevenK: got a link I got download the orgi.tar from to make sure I'm on the same song sheet
<ogra> imbrandon, you need a ppc to build the chroot/image on (depending on the release, gutsy uses an image) ....
<StevenK> DaveMorris: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/h/helix-player/helix-player_1.0.9.orig.tar.gz
<persia> StevenK: Quick answer before I dig the code: likely a missing header #include (new gcc doesn't like header including header).  Looking explcitly now...
<StevenK> persia: I thought so too, but I think digging proved me wrong
 * persia is grateful for the waving of warning flags when blind alleys are considered :)
<DaveMorris> StevenK: I'm looking at the source however I can't see the header files it's meant to include in the same path as chxmimemanager.cpp (I'm prob been stupid though)
<StevenK> DaveMorris: If you look at the build log, there's a whole bunch of -I flags
<DaveMorris> grrr, I dislike that programming style
<StevenK> If you want to try and build it, it takes about 4 minutes to fail on my hardware
<DaveMorris> how do I apply the patch again, my brain has balnked
<nand`> I request a REVU package review of ike please : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike
<persia> DaveMorris: Put the .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz all in the same directory, and use sbuild or pbuilder
<nand`> all should be fixed
<StevenK> DaveMorris: dpatch apply-all
<StevenK> Or apply, I forget
 * StevenK wonders if he broke persia 
<persia> StevenK: No, I'm just trying to see if I can decode the mess that is DEFINE_GUID.  I'm guessing the problem is that the parser can't match the interface in the referenced location, but I don't know enough about DEFINE_GUID yet to be confident of my hypothesis.
<StevenK> I couldn't even find DEFINE_GUID
<persia> StevenK: It's a built-in, that allows one to create a symbolic reference to a binary blob (as far as I can tell so far)
<StevenK> Oh, right. I didn't know that bit.
<persia> Apparently, it is used quite commonly to compile against Windows drivers when accessing interfaces that aren't supposed to be exposed.
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> StevenK: I didn't know it either until Google just told me :)
<StevenK> Oh, right
<persia> StevenK: Unforuntately, I'm not finding lots of docs, although I thought http://www.devdaily.com/scw/c/cygwin/src/winsup/w32api/include/ddk/ndisguid.h.shtml was amusing :)  Demonstrates the significant benefits of having access to library headers.
<StevenK> I just don't see why it would fail. DEFINE_GUID should get replaced by the C++ preprocessor to something sane, the parser should see it and it should be declared.
 * StevenK can't find any mention of DEFINE_GUID under /usr/include
<persia> StevenK: Interestingly enough, ":~/src/scratch/foo/gcc-4.2-4.2.2$ grep -r DEFINE_GUID *" returns nothing...
<TheMuso> Ok. Update-maintainer for hardy now uses rmadison, and the code is somewhat more readable now, at least IMO.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yay
<TheMuso> StevenK: Agreed. It at least means I can now use it on hardy changelogs from within gutsy.
<TheMuso> And, its now possible to change the field without adding a changelog entry.
<TheMuso> Just use --nochangelog
<persia> Hrm.  `rmadison -u debian` fails in my hardy chroot...
<StevenK> persia: Fails how?
<persia> StevenK: "<br /><b>Warning</b>:  stat(): Stat failed for /srv/ftp.debian.org/backup/dump_2007.11.03-20:44:50 (errno=2 - No such file or directory) in <b>/org/qa.debian.org/web/madison.php</b> on line <b>82</b><br />"
<StevenK> Ah, then qa.d.o is borked :-)
<RAOF> persia: What discussions?  The kvm fix has already been pushed into hardy (I think).  I haven't really been tracking the gutsy-proposed parts.
<TheMuso> persia: I get similar behavior here, but in gutsy also.
<TheMuso> So that would explain why requestsync is giving me incorrect version numbers then.
 * TheMuso has had to take the contents of what requestsync presents and file bugs manually.
<persia> RAOF: You posted to the bug about the qemu, and wondering which would be the right solution.  After that, the submitter let a small comment, and I presumed additional offline discussions.
<TheMuso> Once the version number was altered.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  Nothing to worry about then.
<RAOF> persia: No, actually.  I've just looked at it again, and remembered to subscribe to it this time.
<rexbron> morning persia
<persia> evening rexbron
<rexbron> :)
<rexbron> Feeling better?
 * Hobbsee waves to rexbron, when she's actually awake
<persia> rexbron: almost.
<rexbron> hey Hobbsee
 * StevenK sighs. DEFINE_GUID is black magic
<persia> StevenK: At least it's explicity defined as black magic :)
 * rexbron needs some review McLovin: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<StevenK> persia: Are you still digging, or have you thrown down the shovel?
<persia> StevenK: I'm digging upstream, as DEFINE_GUID is proving sufficiently opaque that I'd need new X-Ray specs
<DaveMorris> I'm digging in between other tasks
 * StevenK chuckles
<StevenK> persia: Digging where?
<persia> StevenK: https://player.helixcommunity.org/
<StevenK> Ah
 * StevenK idly ponders being evil and putting the DEFINE_GUID macro call in the .cpp file directly
<persia> StevenK: From the little I've been able to discover, one has to jump through special hoops when mixing DEFINE_GUID with other header information.  Putting it in the .cpp makes me think it won't work at all.
<persia> (plus, it gets used two places in the source)
<StevenK> I've only seen one
<persia> StevenK: player/app/gtk/mimetypes.cpp:100 + player/app/gtk/mimetypes.cpp:534
<persia> Err..    That's player/mime/util/chxmimemanager.cpp:100 + player/app/gtk/mimetypes.cpp:534
 * StevenK nods
 * persia is a big fan of grep -rn
 * StevenK too
<\sh> guys, what do you think about getting rid of ircii-pana aka bitchx?
<persia> StevenK: The release notes for 1.0.8 seem to say that people should install 1.0.8.  This could be a typo, but it may also indicate some unconscious opinion...
<persia> Umm..  Release notes for 1.0.9 (see I did it too)
<StevenK> Oh. That's ... wierd
<zul> \sh: why? do people still use it?
<\sh> zul, there are some security exploits ... but upstream looks like dad
<\sh> s/dad/dead/
 * persia thinks dead upstream + security exploits + available alternatives is a recipe for removal
<zul> \sh: sure ok with me
<rexbron> siretart: Have time to discuss ffmpeg?
<StevenK> persia: I can't see other header files doing anything special with regard to DEFINE_GUID
<DaveMorris> StevenK: have you tried telling it to use the g++-3.4 compiler rather than g++ (which prob points to 4.1)
<siretart> rexbron: what's up?
<StevenK> DaveMorris: I'd rather avoid that if I can help it
<siretart> rexbron: you want to help porting the patches to the next upstream version?
<DaveMorris> yeah, but there are big changes between them, which might be causing this.
<DaveMorris> might be worth the 5 mins to patch it and build it
<rexbron> siretart: I am terrible at c/c++ but I can take a look and do what I can
<rexbron> siretart: FFmpeg now includes support for Avid's DNxHD codec
 * persia notes that chxmimemanager.cpp no longer appears in upstream nightly builds on AMD64
<siretart> I have some local uncommitted chagnes, which would need to be reviewed
<StevenK> Hah, neat.
<siretart> the most terrible patches the inline assembler ones
<rexbron> siretart: and the BBC has released a library (libMXF) for working with .mxf files produced by Panasonic cameras and avid workstations
<rexbron> siretart: which depends on those new features in ffmpeg
<siretart> I see
<rexbron> siretart: !!, I have _no_ real understanding of assembally
<rexbron> siretart: Are they bug fix patches?
<StevenK> DaveMorris: Trying your idea
<StevenK> persia: In the source, or build logs?
<siretart> rexbron: I'd suggest you check out the svn and have a look for yourself
<persia> StevenK: build logs: I'm trying to grab CVS now, but it keeps asking me for a password...
<rexbron> siretart: On the upside of all of this, there has been a huge swing in momentum for the underlying FOSS video libraries
<StevenK> persia: Ah. This could be due to a different in the build system - I'm not using build/bin/build.py, which I bet they are.
<rexbron> siretart: DVCPRO HD will be supported soon, according to the ML
<persia> StevenK: They certainly are.
<StevenK> persia: build/bin/build.py does CVS checkout and other stupid shit which I really really want to avoid.
<persia> Note that if their build system excludes this file, it may be that this file doesn't need to be compiled...
<StevenK> Hey, I'm just running $(MAKE) :-)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I agree.
<persia> StevenK: Can't you just comment that out or something?
<Fujitsu> I was looking at that a couple of days back (and filing bugs) and wondering wth. we were going to do with it.
<StevenK> persia: 1) The Python code for build.py is spread over about 30 files, and 2) It isn't just the CVS checkout that's a problem, the bigger one is fundamental.
<\sh> Fujitsu, see mail to u-d-d and u-m...please reply there...so we have some thoughts
<Fujitsu> \sh: Right, I saw that mail, hence the response.
 * Fujitsu checks Debian.
<StevenK> persia: Do any other files under player/mime/util get built?
<\sh> Fujitsu, the bugs are known in debian, too...but nico is unable to fix it
<\sh> Fujitsu, at least one bug
<rexbron> siretart: Looking at the diff
<Fujitsu> \sh: I saw one of them had a fix, but the other not.
<rexbron> siretart: from debian, there is a fair amount of inline patching, is that advisable?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Might want to discuss this with #debian-security@OFTC
<persia> StevenK: I don't have the log in front of me now: I'll check in a couple minutes (unless you find it first - in the nightly builds section)
<\sh> Fujitsu, the last fix I did for ircii-pana for ubuntu, thx to debian....
<\sh> Fujitsu, thx for the reminder...I was missing  a tab in my xchat ;)
<DaveMorris> StevenK: I tried it and it didnt work (using g++3-4)
<Fujitsu> \sh: bitchx does have quite a few users, judging by popcon.
<StevenK> persia: Nighty builds is for 2.0
<\sh> Fujitsu, tbh, I don't care of those scriptkiddies...
<\sh> Fujitsu, I don't find newer upstream versions neither I do find any healthy website or ML
<Fujitsu> There are three open CVEs, two of which don't have patches anywhere.
<Fujitsu> Upstream is well and truly dead.
<persia> StevenK: Hrm.  That might explain it :)
<Hobbsee> set it on fire.
<Hobbsee> problem solved.
<Fujitsu> I would prefer to talk with Debian first.
<persia> (still, it would be nice to be able to find the anonymous CVS hook)
<StevenK> Bwahahaha
<StevenK> g++-3.4 gives a nice error
<StevenK> chxmimemanager.cpp:99: error: `IID_IHXMimeAssocManager' was not declared in this scope
<StevenK> chxmimemanager.cpp:99: warning: unused variable 'IID_IHXMimeAssocManager'
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<persia> good night TheMuso
<Fujitsu> \sh: I also see that somebody adopted it, and it only built for a very short time.
<\sh> Fujitsu, do you have a link to popcon stats?
<persia> StevenK: Isn't that about the same thing as we see in 4.2?
<Fujitsu> \sh: popcon.ubuntu.com
<Fujitsu>  /by_inst.gz
<StevenK> persia: No warning in 4.2
<StevenK> persia: It's the warning and error that makes me laugh
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I missed that :)
<StevenK> persia: I found a link to a browsable CVS repository - only using ViewVC, sadly
<persia> StevenK: I see it now: https://player.helixcommunity.org/2005/downloads/ (for 1.0.9) ends up pointing to 2.0 for nightly builds.  Apparently it takes 3-4 days to get CVS access (and I'm not that motivated), and there aren't any reported bugs.
<persia> StevenK: You did?  Where?
<persia> Ah.  Found it.  Handy little "CVS" link :)
<persia> StevenK: Now I'm back to "Where?".  I see nothing at https://helixcommunity.org/viewcvs/player/player/
<StevenK> persia: I've found a bunch of stuff under /app/gtk
<StevenK> persia: /player/player is a red herring. Everyting you want is under /player
<persia> StevenK: Right.  The tarball is so stripped, I didn't even recognise it.
<StevenK> Looks like stuff under player/mime hasn't been touched in over 3 years
<Fujitsu> \sh: Filing the ircii-pana bug?
<Fujitsu> Hm, but what to do about it in stable releases...
<persia> StevenK: There was a license change ~4 months ago to exclude GPLv3 for the file calling DEFINE_GUID.
<\sh> Fujitsu, jepp...even for debian :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: So I saw. Very good, I'll be glad to see it go.
<\sh> Fujitsu, good to know what nion speaks my mother language ,-)
<StevenK> persia: Yeah, but that isn't a code change
 * persia cheers the UUS queue being at 3 bugs, and hopes someone feels like pushing a couple merges
<Hobbsee> wow!
 * Hobbsee should give away more of her stuff, if it turns out like that then :P
<persia> StevenK: Right.  Just a touch.  I'm just not sure why it might work for them, and not for us.  1.0.8 had a sad time in Debian as well.
<Nightrose> didnÂ´t he set that recently? well... doesnÂ´t matter
<Nightrose> ah sorry - wrong channel :)
 * StevenK kicks umake
<StevenK> You can pass a profile to build.py, but not umake
<siretart> rexbron: its all with quilt, no inline
<rexbron> siretart: ok
<DktrKranz> persia, about u-u-s queue (especially that seven-task bug), I'm going to look at it soon
<rexbron> siretart: TBH, I don't understand enough of the code base to beable to really help
<persia> DktrKranz: TJ is currently working on that bug, and I'm a big fan of letting the submitter create the debdiffs if they are willing.  It's the other 3 that need quick hits.  I suspect dspam is likely most interesting: the others are just merges.
<DktrKranz> persia, related to dspam, I asked blueyed if he would like to investigate for dapper, edgy and feisty too, but if you need additional testers for /dev/bus stuff, count on me
<StevenK> Neat. I found a problem that managed to defeat persia
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.  I'm fairly certain that feisty qemu/kvm works, as I remember testing it shortly before release: I believe the kernel change is new for gutsy.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's not possible.
<persia> StevenK: I found the macro definition on common/include/hxcom.h, so I'm not defeated yet, just wounded, tired, and with a broken blade
<Fujitsu> See!
<StevenK> Hehe
<StevenK> persia: I've found a difference between the build systems in -0ubuntu1 to -0ubuntu2, so I'm seeing if that makes a differnce
<StevenK> difference
<persia> StevenK: That'd be nice.  I'd prefer a silly mistake on your part to actually determing how to mangle the unique identifiers for the upstream binary blobs (or whatever it's using DEFINE_GUID to define)
<persia> StevenK: You know, if you statically link everything, it doesn't actually call the referenced path...
<StevenK> Funny. I didn't know what powdered tooth enamel tasted like.
<persia> It's just wrong to use random binary references to manage malloc calls.  Just wrong!
<StevenK> Excellent. Now it applies the same profile.
<persia> StevenK: What happens if you include hxcom.h in chxmimemanager.cpp ?
<persia> I'm wondering if chxmimemanager just can't figure out what DEFINE_GUID means...
<StevenK> persia: Hold on, I've got a build currently running
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Too bad.  I was hoping you'd have a good reason to shoot that down :)
<StevenK> persia: This is the build-system fix build, so now I get to see if it still fails
<pkern> persia: I got the reason for the longish repair of my lappy:  the technician fried the system board when replacing the LCD.
<StevenK> Nice!
<persia> StevenK: Right.  Let's hope it does, as at this point, I'm poking blindly at namespace models.
<pkern> Or rather... the repair is finished today, they'll check it again if it was s.th. which fried it... it might leave them today, though.
<pkern> s.th. else
<StevenK> How do you fry a system board when replacing an LCD?
<persia> pkern: Aha!  Did they give you a new delivery estimate?
<pkern> persia: Maybe today, if they don't screw up again and it passes the QA test.
<pkern> (Or rather shipping, not delivery.)
<persia> StevenK: apply the wrong voltage because the LCD regulator isn't tuned properly: I'm sure there are other ways as well, but that's the only one I've had success with.  It really only fries the controller, but you can't usually easily extract just that.
<StevenK> Sure you can, given infinite time. :-)
<pkern> persia: Yeah the system board is one replacement component, so if there's s.th. broken the whole time gets replaced.
<pkern> *thing
<pkern> WTF is happening with me.  Low on coffee or what.
<StevenK> Usually because that's quick and simple.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  When you're a big OEM, simple is key.  It's dangerous to trust monkeys with soldering irons
<pkern> persia: They already fscked the LCD replacement.  So... ;)
<StevenK> persia: I *think* it's gotten further.
<persia> Excellent.  I'll hold off manually backtracing the #ifdefs then :)
<siretart> rexbron: it is indeed a complicated matter, and I understand that we really need a newer ffmpeg snapshot
<siretart> Perhaps I should consider dropping patches that aren't really necessary in ubuntu.. hm
<StevenK> Hrm. I'm *much* happier with this build system.
<persia> StevenK: Does it work?
<StevenK> persia: It fails 17 minutes in, as opposed to 4.
<DaveMorris> StevenK: progress :)
<persia> StevenK: What's the error this time (and I only need the last ~50 lines of the buildlog)
<StevenK> persia: It's not even a code error.
<persia> What's the error?
<StevenK> make[3]: Entering directory `/build/steven/helix-player-1.0.9/player/installer/archive'
<StevenK> test -d ../../../debug || mkdir ../../../debug
<StevenK> cp dbg/symbols.tar.gz ../../../debug
<StevenK> cp: cannot stat `dbg/symbols.tar.gz': No such file or directory
<persia> That sounds like the build worked, and it's just dealing with cleanup.
<StevenK> persia: Do you want to look at the new build log?
<persia> StevenK: Only in combination with the new build system: I don't think I can chase that from upstream code.
<StevenK> persia: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/helix-sucks/build-log if you want to look
 * StevenK stops calling $(MAKE) copy
<slomo_> who wants helix anyway ;)
<StevenK> My employer.
<persia> slomo_: At least someone has it installed according to popcon.  I'm sure neither StevenK nor I would object if you went there and uninstalled it :)
<persia> (well, maybe StevenK then)
<LeRoutier> Hello
<persia> Welcom LeRoutier
<persia> StevenK: Looking at that build log, I'm placing full blame on the build system.  It looks like it's just setting up the installer, etc.
<StevenK> persia: It looks like make copy is doing it, so I'm rebuilding with it.
<persia> with?  without?
<StevenK> Er, yeah. :-) Without
 * persia waits 22 minutes
<StevenK> I'm not sure if I can, it's 12:16am here :-)
<persia> StevenK: Right.  Time change.  I'm more than happy for that: I'd rather sleep anyway :)
<StevenK> TBH, I'm much happier with my NWO of build systems
<StevenK> I know how $(MAKE) behaves and how to debug it - a threaded Python app - not so much.
<persia> StevenK: How are you doing it?  All make?
<StevenK> persia: -0ubuntu1 set some environment variables and called build/bin/build.py with a bunch of command line arguments.
<StevenK> persia: -0ubuntu2 iterates over every Umakefil it can find, and runs build/bin/umake.py on it to generate Makefiles and then runs $(MAKE) directly.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Autotools in python.  Nifty, and lots easier to debug :)
<StevenK> persia: One of the problems with the build system in -0ubuntu1 is that if a bit failed to compile, it would log to stderr "Make failed" and *keep going*
<persia> That gives me a new definition to "mistrust" when it comes to build systems.  At least with "-$(MAKE)" I can see the character that shouldn't be there.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> -$(MAKE) clean/distclean I can understand, -$(MAKE) is just wrong
<StevenK> persia: Also note the checking I do in debian/rules after the umake.py call
<persia> StevenK: -$(MAKE) is what you've described for -0ubuntu1 though...
<StevenK> persia: Who can tell? It's being run in an opaque manner
<persia> StevenK: Right.  The behaviour was -$(MAKE), but it's taken significant time for two people to figure that out.
<persia> Three people
<\sh> Fujitsu, filed removal request and subscribed u-u-s
<StevenK> Isn't Helix fun?
 * persia wishes make was happier with indenting for if/endif
<StevenK> As soon as you indent, it isn't a make directive
<persia> StevenK: Don't use "for" in a makefile!  That's why $(foreach ...) exists.
<LeRoutier> in what shape are PPA buildbots today ?
<StevenK> persia: If you want to paste a better line in /query, I'm happy to use it
 * persia goes off to play with make
<StevenK> persia: I can't remember $(foreach) semantics, but I can remember how to write for loops in shell, and how to escape them so make doesn't hate me, so ....
<persia> StevenK: Sure.  I can never remember syntax either, it's just that "for" in make tends to make makefiles less makey
 * StevenK chuckles
<StevenK> "less makey"
<persia> Right.  $(foreach ) isn't even the right syntax for this...
<\sh> dholbach, you don't need to be member anymore to become a motu?
<dholbach> \sh: MOTU membership includes ubuntumembers membership
<\sh> dholbach, yeah but as I understand your post on p.u.c, that there is no splitted application necessary anymore? or did I miss something?
<dholbach> \sh: no, only one application
<dholbach> we have that for nearly a year now
<LucidFox> norsetto> the Debian developer for Psi has just uploaded 0.11-3, which incorporates all Ubuntu changes
<norsetto> lucidfox: \o/
<norsetto> LucidFox: you should ask for a sync then
<\sh> dholbach, well, I was still thinking, that you need to apply for plain ubuntu membership first and then in the second round apply for motuship...well, I'm getting old ;)
<LucidFox> It's still in incoming.debian.org, though - not yet moved to the archive. Should I wait? And should I submit a separate bug or reopen that one?
<persia> \sh: That was only true for about 18 months.
<norsetto> LucidFox: just submit a new bug once its in the debian archive then
<\sh> persia, well, I was one of the old farts who had to deal with sabdfl in the first round and mdz in the second...
<persia> \sh: I know :)
<StevenK> So did I
<\sh> oh wow...good to know that I don't use mac osx
<Hobbsee> \sh: that's just scary.
 * Hobbsee had to deal with keybuk and such first, then mdz for core.
<\sh> Hobbsee, oh yes, for the third round I just forgot ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
 * Hobbsee remembers the first round as she was still on a mostly-canonical call, as was keybuk, and we didnt have quorum for my TB meeting, and they couldnt do it without me there.
<Hobbsee> er, last round
<norsetto> ah, the good (!?) memories
<Hobbsee> yeah.  was good neough
<zul> heh when I went for core I was eperiencing a shortness of breath
 * Hobbsee just answered questions on how she found UDS, and hammered them on not being more organised.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> and about release management, and my plans for that, i think
<StevenK> I had mako for membership, keybuk/someone else for MOTU, and mdz/mjg59 twice for core
<\sh> norsetto, mindi: read the comment :) I really don't know where you looked for the control file, but distributions/debian/ is just not the right location :)
<norsetto> \sh: I just searched for /control in patch, heck, there are about 100 of them ;-)
<\sh> norsetto, in the diff? no...just use the plain debian package and patch it with the debdiff...
<norsetto> \sh: but please edit the patch with the remaining issues, I really don't understand why you want to have linux-image as a reccomend
<\sh> norsetto, I just realized, that the mom/dad merge sources are really a pain in my a*s
<norsetto> recommend even
<\sh> norsetto, because debian recommends all their flavours...we just need the one package to rule them all..it just catches up with the installed kernel already.
<norsetto> \sh: yes, but whats the point? We should add linux-image as a Depends to all packages really .....
<\sh> norsetto, oh you want it as dependency...now I got that point :)
<persia> norsetto: That very much doesn't work.  Firstly, because many packages don't need it, and nexenta, etc. would suffer, and secondly because it's insufficiently specific for version issues.
<norsetto> \sh: no, I don't think we need it at all
<zul> no you shouldnt add linux-image to Depends because that changes alot
<norsetto> well, whats the point of having linux-image as a recommend?
<\sh> norsetto, if you be safe, you would need to "OR" all ubuntu kernel flavours, like debian is doing it....it needs at least one image to build boot/root media ... so debian is giving the user a choice...I don't, that's why I recommend linux-image (which matches the installed kernel) only
<norsetto> \sh: yes, but why do we need it explicitely as a recommend?
<norsetto> \sh: I mean, do we have ubuntu installations without linux-image? Isn't linux-image part of the Base package?
<norsetto> \sh: I'm not talking about a fancy arch here, its i386, amd64 and ia64
<\sh> norsetto, no...but we have -generic, -server etc. as flavour...Imean I could put them as well as recommends, because the package just works with the installed kernel...
<\sh> so I remove linux-image, and put all flavours in, that's the debian way...
<norsetto> \sh: exactly, so, why do we want to have a recommend?
<\sh> because you could install more kernel flavours...then the default...yes, I think it's more serious to add all flavours
<norsetto> \sh: yes, but what mind wants its a kernel, do we need to recommend that a kernel is installed?
<\sh> norsetto, it needs at least "one kernel" not "the installed kernel"
<\sh> you can choose the kernel version or flavour of what boot/root media you want...
<\sh> so if you want boot/root media for -server flavour you need to have the linux-image-server installed
<\sh> and this applies for all other flavours
<norsetto> \sh: yes, so how linux-image is going to solve that? Its just telling you that a kernel is recommended, do we need that recommendation?
<\sh> norsetto, that's why I realized now...I just add linux-image-generic | linux-image-server  to recommends
<\sh> s/why/what/
<norsetto> \sh: yes, but why? I still don't see the need
<\sh> norsetto, because of the choice
<norsetto> \sh: what choice? Unless you want for instance to restrict it to non -rt for instance
<\sh> norsetto, do you know what mindi does?
<norsetto> \sh: no idea at all
<\sh> it creates boot/root disks :) and for this you have the choice of the kernel
<\sh> it creates those disks with your choosen kernel, modules, tools and libs...so you have a choice here
<\sh> like mkinitrd or mkinitramfs does, too :)
<norsetto> \sh: right, so, how does a recommend in your package help you with that?
<\sh> norsetto, the user doesn't have all kernels installed, but the user (mostly admins) have an advice, which kernels we/debian have/has...it's more accurate
<\sh> so they see what they can install...
<norsetto> \sh: you now that apt-get will install the recommends now?
<pkern> Recommends will be installed by default soon?
<pkern> Or even now.
<norsetto> pkern: I think it does already
<pkern> You could add Suggests.
<\sh> norsetto, it's been discussed yes...
<\sh> as I understand the mail from this morning on u-d-d correctly..so right now, recommends is the right place, and for the future, when debian goes with the same decision, we will move it to suggests
<pkern> Debian already installs recommends by default.
<\sh> pkern, ugh...
<pkern> \sh: Since Oct 1
<pkern> That one I know for sure. ;)
<\sh> pkern, bad
<\sh> pkern, habbit ,-)
<pkern> Coherent...
<\sh> pkern, hopefully there is a switch in d-i to stop the packagemanager of installing them
<siretart> norsetto: not yet, but mvo is going to do this change in hardy RSN
<siretart> norsetto: that change has already reached debian
<norsetto> siretart: right .... talking about what if I may ask :-)
<\sh> norsetto, ok...I'll change the recommends to suggests (for the kernels) and add all flavours
<norsetto> \sh: ok, please also remove the version change for mindi-busybox, I think its not needed anymore
<siretart> \sh: exactly. that change makes maintainers to think about the difference between recommends and suggests. and makes them actually useful for something
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: hi, can I ask you something about build-depends ?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: sure, ask the audience too ;-)
<Rospo_Zoppo> ok
<Rospo_Zoppo> I'm trying to merge foobillard
<Rospo_Zoppo> but I have two different build-depends fields
<Rospo_Zoppo> between the old Ubuntu version and the new Debian version
<\sh> norsetto, attached new diff
<norsetto> \sh: thanks
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: this is the old version
<Rospo_Zoppo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2004/
<Rospo_Zoppo> and this is the new one
<Rospo_Zoppo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2005/
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: maybe it's transitional stuff or something like that ?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I didn't look at the second, but I recognise some transitional package in the first, yes
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: thanks
<frafu> Hello, I am preparing a package for revu. The C-source code files are under GPL v3,but there is no indication in the config, makefiles, intltool, etc. Do each of this files also need a few lines at the top about the license?
<frafu> Moreover, the package includes a manual under GFDL 1.1,but the text of the license is not included in the package. Do I have to add a file with the gfdl 1.2 text to the source package? Or does a link in debian/copyright be enough?
<norsetto> frafu: the gfdl needs to be mentioned in copyright, same type of mention as the gpl (a link is not enough)
<norsetto> frafu: are u upstream too?
<frafu> yes,  I am also an upstream maintainer of the package
<Lutin> siretart: bzr-buildded is syncable, isn't it ?
<siretart> Lutin: yes, it is!
<siretart> and should be in sync, in fact
<Lutin> siretart: ok
<norsetto> frafu: ok, then as you mentioned you should add the gfdl in COPYING (or whatever it is you use) too
<Lutin> siretart: just want to make sure. the current ubuntu version is a no-change upload from debian, right ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: it's not necessary to do a merge only for a .desktop clean-up right ?
<siretart> Lutin: http://patches.ubuntu.com/b/bzr-builddeb/bzr-builddeb_0.90ubuntu1.patch
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: if its just an aesthetic change I would say not, report it to debian and we will take it from them
<Lutin> siretart: ok
<frafu> norsetto: are you telling me to add the text of both, the gpl and gfdl, to the file named COPYING? It currently contains only the text of the gpl license.
<norsetto> frafu: yes, that would be good
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: it's only for the icon field, I will do a sync request
<norsetto> frafu: you can also add two different files, lets call them GPL and GFDL and link them in COPYING
<frafu> But changing the COPYING file, the source package will not be identical anymore to the release that I am preparing for revu. Should I increase the release version number?
<norsetto> frafu: the release number for revu is practically irrelevant, it only need to record the first release, you may leave it unchanged
<frafu> norsetto: what kind of link do you have in mind?
<norsetto> frafu: a textual one: "this and this file are released under the GPL etc., a copy of the license is in the file foo/GPL ...." this type of things
<norsetto> frafu: you are pretty free to do what is best for you, as long as there is a clear unique reference to what license is used for what source in one general license file (for instance COPYING)
<frafu> norsetto: what about the makefiles, config*, intltool, etc. Does each file also have to mention a license?
<norsetto> frafu: the way I understand it, its not needed for autogenerated files
<frafu> norsetto: thanks for your help. If I have further questions I will come back :-)
<norsetto> frafu: sure, np, for license questions you may also ask in ubuntu-devel, as most archive admins hang in there
<frafu> norsetto: thanks for the tip about ubuntu-devel, too
<Rospo_Zoppo> mr_pouit: I've seen that you patched foobillard, now I'm trying to merge it but I don't know how to deal with this change you made "* Bump DH_COMPAT to 5, bump build-dependency: debhelper (>= 5)."
<DaveMorris> can someone please point me in the right direction, or tell me the answer in how to fix this lintian error?  postinst-must-call-ldconfig
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: he is not logged at the moment
<norsetto> DaveMorris: is your package packaging shared libraries?
<DaveMorris> yes
<norsetto> DaveMorris: and you are not using dh_makeshlibs?
<DaveMorris> norsetto: http://pastebin.ca/775285
<norsetto> DaveMorris: because that will also add the call to ldconfig for you
<DaveMorris> yeah I am
<norsetto> DaveMorris: how many binary packages you have?
<DaveMorris> 2
<DaveMorris> the other one doesn't have the error
<norsetto> DaveMorris: ok, so you get the error in the -dev package I guess?
<DaveMorris> actually no, the dev package is fine
<norsetto> DaveMorris: outside your question, I would nont add the .la files since you have the *.pc already
<DaveMorris> ok, thanks
<norsetto> DaveMorris: see if specifying the package with -p helps in your call to dh_makeshlibs
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: can you tell me what that "bump" means ? :)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I mean, is it a change to reproduce ?
<norsetto> DaveMorris: if you add an "export DH_VERBOSE=1" this will also add some verbose output from the debhelper calls which may give you some hints
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: bump means raise, so bump debhelper to >= 5 means raising it from whatever it was before (4 or lower) to 5
<Rospo_Zoppo> ok
 * norsetto -> has tea
<DaveMorris> norsetto: thanks, it appears they are been made but not installed to the correct dir
<DaveMorris> they are appearing in debian/ rather than debian/libcpptest/DEBIAN
<LeRoutier> re
<LeRoutier> could someone tell me if we get a mail after uploading to REVU ?
<Nightrose> \sh_away: have a look at facebook - I finally changed "it" as promised ;-)
<norsetto> DaveMorris: ah, but that is because you are calling dh_installdeb before dh_makeshlibs then
<DaveMorris> yep, that was it, thanks
<nixternal> alrighty, give me a quick and dirty rule about man pages?
<nixternal> why would a plugin need a manpage? why would a guy app that has far more extensive help documentation need a manpage?
<nixternal> it is absolutely stupid, a waste of space, and a waste of time
<azeem> nixternal: why do you think a plugin needs a manpage?
<nixternal> I don't think a plugin needs a manpage
<azeem> okk
<nixternal> I don't think a gui app that doesn't even use the command line needs a man page, especially when a majority of apps come with documentation
<nixternal> supposedly there is this really dumb rule that says "binaries should have manpages"
<soren> nixternal: In that case, the man page could just explain in 15 words what the binary is for.
<soren> nixternal: Well... It's not all binaries. Just the ones in {/usr,}/{,s}bin
<soren> nixternal: if it's a plugin for something and is not meant to be called directly, it doesn't belong in a {/usr,}/{,s}bin. It's quite simple.
<nixternal> quite simple, and at times quite silly
<apachelogger> siretart: ping
<siretart> apachelogger: please don't do contentless pings
<apachelogger> siretart: ping, revu is eating my uploads key: 1024D/72F23991 mail: apachelogger@ubuntu.com
<apachelogger> eating = I upload and the upload never shows up -.-
<siretart> what package did you upload?
<apachelogger> siretart: khalkhicards
<siretart> apachelogger: and you are absolutely sure you uploaded it to review? check your .upload file
<apachelogger> Successfully uploaded kopete-plugin-thinklight_0.3-0ubuntu1.dsc to revu.tauware.de.
<apachelogger> ah, wrong one, sorry
<apachelogger> siretart: hm, something is really wrong here... I'll try again
<gnomefreak> siretart: same problem that me and a few others had?
<gnomefreak> where uploads are stuck in a dir. and not pushed to revu page?
<siretart> gnomefreak: that he failed to upload it to the right host? probably yes :)
<gnomefreak> i uploaded 3 times after nov 13th 7:00 and they never showed up, people have found the issue but its still not fixed
<DaveMorris> gnomefreak: it's fixed
<DaveMorris> I've uploaded since and I had the same problem
<gnomefreak> DaveMorris: my page wasnt updated
<gnomefreak> should i re-upload it?
<siretart> gnomefreak: oh yes, there has been some upload swallowed yesterday, that should be fixed now
<DaveMorris> yeah
<siretart> gnomefreak: what package was that?
<gnomefreak> ok ill re send it. lightning-sunbird
<siretart> yes, please reupload
<Lutin> joejaxx: what's the need of the libglu1-mesa-dev -> libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev change in antennavis ? can't get it
<gnomefreak> ok re uploading
<gnomefreak> ty siretart and DaveMorris
<apachelogger> siretart: ok, khalkhicards went online, but it seems like kopete-otr seems to be stuck somewhere
<siretart> apachelogger: if you uploaded it yesterday, please reupload
<apachelogger> siretart: tried 8 minutes ago
<siretart> ACCEPTED /srv/uploads/khalkhicards_0.2.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<siretart> but no trace of kopete-otr
<apachelogger> really strange
<apachelogger> siretart: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44630/
<siretart> care to paste your kopete-otr .upload file as well?
<apachelogger> again the wrong package -.-
<apachelogger> siretart: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44632/
 * apachelogger kicks khalkhi to the moon for always blocking his clipboard
<apachelogger> siretart: here's the .upload file: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44633/
<siretart> interesting
<siretart> when was that?
<apachelogger> siretart: 16 minutes ago
<siretart> apachelogger: what's the problem with this? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kopete-otr
<apachelogger> honestly, I really shouldn't do any work today
<apachelogger> siretart: well, thanks for looking anyway
<Lutin> StevenK: are you ok with a cynthiune.app sync ? seems that your patch has been applied in debian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<Lutin> geser: don't you think we should drop the description typo fix in edenmath.app and just sync it ?
<geser> Lutin: I looked at it today and asked that myself
<geser> on one side it isn't important enough to keep on the other side it closed an LP bug
<Lutin> geser: yeah, but do we want to keep a diff against debien for such a minor bug ?
<Lutin> (I would not even call that a bug anyway)
<geser> not really
<Lutin> geser: let's sync then :)
<norsetto_> lutin, geser: submitting the bug to debian is not even an option?
<Lutin> norsetto: the bug has already been reported to the BTS
<norsetto> lutin: ok, and they just couldn't care less or what?
<Lutin> norsetto: reported 9 days ago, can't tell :)
<Lutin> no answer yet, quite normal
<\sh> re
 * norsetto thinks that this place looks differently without scottk
<\sh> what's up with scottk?
<norsetto> \sh: didn't you see his email to the lists?
<\sh> norsetto, need to start my email client
<norsetto> \sh: need an help? I can push while you steer
<\sh> norsetto, I just setting up claws mail...after thunderbird with enigmail doesn't like cardreader for gpg cards...:(
<proppy> norsetto: ScottK gone ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, but stepping down considerably
<proppy> :(
<\sh> norsetto, hmm...I just got the mail about the mentoring from him
 * norsetto checks his incoming mail
<\sh> norsetto, thinking about u-m@l.u.c
<norsetto> \sh, proppy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002581.html
<\sh> oh this one...old one :)
<\sh> norsetto, and tbh, I agree with him in some points...
<\sh> norsetto, yeah I saw that too late (mindi)...I wonder what grab-merge.sh (the moms way) is doing to the original debian package or whatever...I'll merge it now cleanly...I'm tired of mom
<norsetto> \sh: well, its uploaded already with those changes
<norsetto> \sh: I added all linux-images- for the 3 arches btw
<ajmitch> hi
<norsetto> \sh: I think you have an amd64 since you only added those for that arch?
<norsetto> hiya ajmitch
<\sh> norsetto, there is no arch for linux-image-generic ... don't add the arch specific ones...that's wrong
<\sh> norsetto, and no...I just have i386
<\sh> all flavours are available
<\sh> norsetto, linux-image-{generic,server,rt,virtual} are meta packages where dependencies are set during build time for the compiled arch (afaik)
<\sh> norsetto, so you will find for linux-image-generic on i386 an i386 dependency to the real kernel...and on ia64 for ia64 and so on...
<\sh> ugh
<zul> most if not all -source packages for hardy in universe will not build against 2.6.24
<\sh> who wants to fix wireshark for feisty and down?
<\sh> https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2007-0709.html looks really interesting
<zul> \sh: assign it to me and ill get to it
<\sh> zul, don't bother, I'm grabbing the patches and file a bug
<\sh> oh this is so crap...why can't they put the cve in the svn/cvs log
<\sh> hey ivoks
<ivoks> hello
<proppy> any debian bugs report guru here ?
<slangasek> proppy: what's the question?
<proppy> slangasek: I forgot to set the severity of a bug, can I change/add it by replying to the bugmai l?
<azeem> bts <nnnn> severity foo
<RainCT> hi
<azeem> hrm, or does bts go to LP by default?
<azeem> proppy: actually, it's bts severity <nnnn> foo
<RainCT> i've seen a "Homepage:" entry in debian/control some days ago. is this new policy or just something strange? :P
<proppy> azeem: it bts a command, or something I should put in the mail content pseudo header ?
<norsetto> rainct: new policy
<jpatrick> RainCT: new policy
<azeem> proppy: command
<azeem> proppy: you can also mail control@bugs.debian.org
<azeem> proppy: see http://bugs.debian.org
<proppy> ok thanks
<proppy> azeem: thanks
<RainCT> nice. will synaptic add it automatically to the description?
<Kmos> RainCT: that need to be adapted :) synaptic get that field from package
<Kmos> it's new dpkg feature =)
<proppy> azeem: few done by mail
<proppy> do not really know how to feel about mail based bts :)
<proppy> wonders if day to day use feels easy
<proppy> Severity set to `wishlist' from `normal' Request was from Johan Euphrosine <proppy@aminche.com> to control@bugs.debian.org.   (Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:03:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.
<proppy>    Severity set to `wishlist' from `wishlist' Request was from Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@debian.at> to control@bugs.debian.org.   (Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:03:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.
<proppy> ahah :)
<norsetto> proppy: isn't that the one from viewcs?
<proppy> norsetto: nop, just a bug I found out in a package I've just installed
<proppy> norsetto: I've not received any news for the viewvc one
<norsetto> proppy: don't know why but the nickname rings a bell
<proppy> norsetto: which nickname ?
<norsetto> proppy: rhonda
<proppy> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=409864 not updated
<ubotu> Debian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open]
<warp10> Hi all!
<norsetto> hiya warp10
<warp10> norsetto: :-)
<norsetto> I have seen some strange versions but this is pretty funny
<norsetto> you like this warp10: 2.~-1.0~beta1-1 ?
<warp10> norsetto: Indeed it has a kind of artistic sense
 * proppy hugs norsetto
<proppy> seeyou
<norsetto> thats what I call a hug and run offense
<\sh> now...let's see if wireshark compiles...
<geser> where does I find the current section list for the Debian menu?
<frafu> Hello, I am preparing a package for revu and had to do a few changes to conform to the rules concerning the submission of a new package. These changes now imply that it is not equal anymore to the release tarball that I had when I started. Could anybody please tell me how to proceed about the versioning?
<mdomsch> frafu, you'll have an .orig.tar.gz from upstream
<mdomsch> and a set of patches you apply
<mdomsch> and a patch that contains the debian/ dir and files
<mdomsch> -0ubuntu1 would be the -release part of your version-release
<frafu> mdomsch: no, I did the changes in the source itself
<mdomsch> frafu, are you the upstream maintainer?
<frafu> yes
<mdomsch> ok, then you can either a) release a new upstream version with your changes, or
<mdomsch> b) see above, so it's your last upstream version, plus a patch
<mdomsch> plus the debian/ dir patch
<\sh> oh damn...we should host all dapper stuff in bzr or whatever
<frafu> mdomsch: I will try b). (I am new to this); To be sure: could you confirm that I can use the b) route, even if there is no package submitted to revu yet?
<mdomsch> frafu, you bet
<frafu> mdomsch: thanks
<mdomsch> frafu, debian developers occasionally have to fix code, e..g a diff from the upstream released version
<mdomsch> if only to get it to build properly on debian/ubuntu
<mdomsch> there's a 'dpatch' mechanism, and others I'm sure, for applying a set of patches cleanly
<mdomsch> during debuild
<frafu> mdomsch: does debuild automatically see the patches? In other words: I can call 'debuild -S' as usual!?
<mdomsch> frafu, this I'm not sure, I haven't needed to use dpatch myself yet
<mdomsch> but I'm told I should have once before :-)
<\sh> frafu, for additional dpatches you need to add them to 00list in debian/patches
<TheMuso> And, if the apckage doens't yet use dpatch, you need to change debian/rules to knwo about it.
<geser> and also build-depend on dpatch
<\sh> and if you want to be c0ol use quilt ,-)
<\sh> (forget about that ,-))
<frafu> Do I have to change debian/rules manually?
<\sh> frafu, when debian/rules doesn't know anything about dpatch, yes
<frafu> It does not yet use dpatch yet. My debian rules is auto generated... I will have to look now for the details. Thanks to all for pointing me in the right direction.
<mdomsch> it looks like cdbs has its own patch system, if you happen to be using that
<frafu> no, I am using debhelper
<\sh> autogenerated debian/rules?
<frafu> from dh_make
<\sh> oh it's the initial debian/rules
<\sh> so you need to add the magics from dpatch, which are written down in man dpatch
<\sh> include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<\sh> and the next 2 makefile targets you need to find out yourself in man dpatch :)
<frafu> I did not have to change it yet (apart one line in the clean target)
<\sh> Fujitsu, can you set the importance of bug #132915 to high?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132915 in wireshark "WireShark versions prior to 0.99.6 vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132915
<geser> \sh: done
<\sh> geser, thanks :)
<frafu> thanks again
<\sh> I wonder if all this patching works down to dapper
<Fujitsu> \sh: We have bigger problems in Dapper, of course.
<Fujitsu> We even need 0.99.4 down there, IIRC.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<\sh> Fujitsu, 0.99.4 is just finished...(feisty)
<\sh> dapper has 0.90.x
<Fujitsu> Oh, it was Ethereal back then, wasn't it?
<\sh> 0.99.0 as ethereal
<\sh> yes
<Fujitsu> I simply don't think we can support that.
<Fujitsu> Other distros backported 0.99.4 because they couldn't pick out the security stuff.
<\sh> e.g. there is another cve hanging (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-3391) which doesn't apply for us in general, the functionality is not in our versions from feisty downto dapper...
<ubotu> Wireshark 0.99.5 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (memory consumption) via a malformed DCP ETSI packet that triggers an infinite loop. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-3391)
<\sh> Fujitsu, well, we can try...for a vital app like ethereal/wireshark that's one of the important things for ubuntu and it's community driven support
<\sh> Fujitsu, I think when we can show the outside people, that motu is able to support the community section for about 5 years, it would be the greatest thing on earth ,-)
<Fujitsu> We might have a chance for Hardy, if we get a sane security tracker up and running.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Were you able to nominate bug #132915 for Dapper today?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132915 in wireshark "WireShark versions prior to 0.99.6 vulnerability" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132915
<\sh> yepp.
<\sh> i just did that (10 minutes ago)
<\sh> and I think it's a bug ,-)
<Fujitsu> Right, I'm filing it.
<Fujitsu> Because I can't approve it.
<Fujitsu> Or decline it.
<Fujitsu> It's just stuck there forever.
<\sh> lol
<\sh> Fujitsu, sorry...
<Fujitsu> Heh, it's LP's problem.
<Fujitsu> So you're going to backport those 4 CVE fixes to Edgy/Feisty?
<\sh> Fujitsu, feisty is just building
<Fujitsu> Very good.
<\sh> Fujitsu, edgy will be the last..I'm trying dapper first
<\sh> i think it's more important the bumpy edgy
<Fujitsu> There are others that need fixing in Dapper.
<Fujitsu> I'll try and get a list some time today.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'm going down the security list of our security team...
<Fujitsu> ~motu-swat?
<\sh> php4 is something
<Fujitsu> php4 should be doable for another month, but then we're completely screwed.
<\sh> Fujitsu, no ubuntu-security-team
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> That's probably more complete.
<\sh> there are a lot of bugs, and no one bothers to go down the road an start working on really low hanging fruit
<\sh> in the last days, i did some other bugfixes...
 * keescook is excited to see activity.  :)
<Fujitsu> I did about 20 from ~motu-swat a week ago.
<\sh> keescook, dude, I'll spam ,-)
<keescook> cool; I need to get the list of tested debdiffs now, so I can start uploading them.
 * Fujitsu can also do more starting later today, as there will be no more damn exams.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> They should all be searchable by In Progress + patch.
<keescook> Fujitsu: perfect!
<\sh> ah some of themI didn't set to progress
<\sh> but will do in a moment
<Fujitsu> keescook: Can you please look at bug #132915, and tell me if you can decline the Dapper task? As you're core-dev, you may have more powers than I.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132915 in wireshark "WireShark versions prior to 0.99.6 vulnerability" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132915
<keescook> Fujitsu: we don't have a way of marking a debdiff as "tested" though, do we?
<Fujitsu> keescook: Not at the moment, but I believe I've tested them all.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<\sh> keescook, build test or exploit tests?
<keescook> Fujitsu: I mean actual run-the-program testing (not just build-tests)?
<keescook> Fujitsu: yup, dapper declined.
<Fujitsu> keescook: In most cases I've tested the functionality of the program around the fix, yes.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Thanks, that's a bug,.
<keescook> Fujitsu: that works for me.  While it'd be great to test PoC or exploits, the critical bit is to avoid regression.  :)
<Fujitsu> keescook: I've tested exploits which were easily findable.
<\sh> Fujitsu, some parts I can fix I think for dapper/ethereal
<Fujitsu> \sh: Oh, good. Are you able to find the CVEs fixed in .1-.5?
<\sh> Fujitsu, when you read the debdiff for wireshark, there are bug reports from upstream...there are some demo code inside ,-)
<\sh> Fujitsu, well I think I can manage, but it takes time...right now my wife comes home..so end of business today :)
<Fujitsu> OK, talk to you tomorrow, then. Thanks for the work you've done!
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'll work tomorrow from office...then I have time :)
<\sh> cu good night
<Fujitsu> Night.
<Fujitsu> That's one nasty changelog entry in the feisty/wireshark debdiff.
<alvinc> holy server link batman
<DaveMorris> can someone nuke my package on revu as I'm sorting it out http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=opensg-dev
<bddebian> DaveMorris: Done
<DaveMorris> thanks
<Jazzva> Hmm... any idea why "cp {file1,file2}.extension somewhere" works when I build from source in Debian, but it doesn't in Ubuntu? It works in Ubuntu too, if it's not run from Makefile...
<geser> Jazzva: dash vs bash
<Jazzva> geser: Hmm... Thanks. I'll supply a debdiff for this one, then...
<geser> apachelogger: did you try to upload gtkmm-utils 0.3.0-0ubuntu1 to Debian?
<apachelogger> geser: wah, I did -.-
<apachelogger> someday I might get dput configured right
<Jazzva> Hmm... another question. If I'm submitting a fix for package that needs to be synced, is that similar to a merge (in a way there are some Ubuntu changes, but they're not from previous versions, unlike in merge)?
<Fujitsu> Jazzva: It would be performed identically to a merge.
<Fujitsu> Except for the merging old changes bit; you'd just merge the new changes instead.
<Jazzva> Ok... thanks :).
<Fujitsu> Jazzva: Make sure you note in the sponsorship bug that that's what you've done, to avoid confusing people and to make sure they generate the .changes properly.
<Jazzva> Fujitsu: I suppose I should change the status to match the merge request... right?
<Fujitsu> Jazzva: Of the bug? Probably.
 * Fujitsu blinks.
<Fujitsu> Why is rhythmbox segfaulting in main()!?
<Lutin> someones know who added the 'no need to sync' comment for xt on DaD ? is it you zul ?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-16
<Jimerson> Good Evening All.
<Jimerson> I have some questions about sponsorship, I have read through the wiki, and I have some questions if someone is willing to help me.
<rick_h_> jcastro: you see the video of the new rythmbox plugin? Browse artists is kind of cool
 * Hobbsee waves
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> exams suck.
<Hobbsee> physics should die.
<Hobbsee> apart from that, fine!
<ajmitch> yay :)
<ajmitch> have you finished exams now?
<Hobbsee> hah.  no.
<Hobbsee> 2 more
<minghua> Huh.  I hope physics lives fine.
<Jimerson> I have some questions on sponsorship, I have read the wiki's information and would like to talk to someone about it.
<Hobbsee> shoot :
<Jimerson> Your following me :)
<Jimerson> Hobbsee: mind if I pm you?
 * Hobbsee is omnipotent :)
<Hobbsee> Jimerson: would prefer you to ask in here, then multiple people can answer
 * Hobbsee is a bad mentor, tbh.
<persia> Jimerson: It's generally best to ask any questions in-channel, and not to specific people, so everyone can learn.
<eneko_tab> we are trying to relaunch the Ubuntu Home Server project as it seems death
<eneko_tab> UHS would be analog to the windows home server
 * Hobbsee wonders how that fits in with ubuntu server.
<StevenK> persia: Your make foo fails!
<eneko_tab> however, we need help specially in the management
<Jimerson> Fair enough. I have not really found any information on how to find a sponsor, I am new to this, and am interested in helping, just need a kick in the right direction.
<StevenK> persia: make says "The directory exists, so I don't need to do anything"
<persia> StevenK: Hrm?  Which part?
<Hobbsee> Jimerson: got a bug in particular, or wanting to know in general?
<StevenK> persia: The $(MAKE_DIRS) bit
<Jimerson> Hobbsee: general.
<persia> StevenK: Did you not add $(MAKE_DIRS) as a dependency of .PHONY?
<Hobbsee> Jimerson: you usually just make sure the patch is correct, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<jdong> stupid GPG question: can I have GPG show "info" about an encrypted file or signature (i.e. who signed it, who's it encrypted to, etc)
<StevenK> persia: Oh, was I supposed to? :-)
<persia> Jimerson: You don't need to find a sponsor: the sponsors need to find your patches.  This is done with bug subscriptions.
<eneko_tab> anyone is experienced managing an open source sw prject?
<Hobbsee> jdong: you can do gpg --validate-sig or something, for the first.
<persia> StevenK: Sorry: I was tired last night.  Yes, if you don't want it to block on timestamps :)
<Hobbsee> jdong: i dont think that's right, but it's close enough that the man page should help
<Jimerson> persia: where is a good place to get started.
<Hobbsee> eneko_tab: we're MOTU's.  we manage universe ;)
<jdong> Hobbsee: hmm I'm perusing thru the manpage currently
<Hobbsee> silly question.
<persia> Jimerson: What do you seek to accomplish?
<Hobbsee> jdong: gpg --verify
<Hobbsee> i was close :)
<Jimerson> persia: to help in any way that I can, does not matter to me what I accomplish, I would just like to give something back wherever it is needed.
<jdong> Hobbsee: ah, ok
<Hobbsee> jdong: no idea on who it's encrypted to.  i've not had to use it.
<persia> Jimerson: If you want to help MOTU, the best ways are 1) bug triage, 2) patches, and 3) Preparing candidate revisions with the patches to close the bugs.  There's an overview at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> Jimerson: I'd suggest starting with #1, doing #2 when there's an obvious solution, and doing #3 when you've a package where you can close a few of the bugs due to #2.
<Jimerson> persia: Thank you for your answers and time.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: for u-u-s fun - all of http://tinyurl.com/2nynzm
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: that's a list fo bugs that have patches associated.  the users presumably havent subscribed the sponsorship team.  just if you get bored
<Hobbsee> persia: ^ bluekuja
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  There's a link there from qa.ubuntuwire.com :)  Part of the issue is that most of those patches aren't debdiffs.  I'd say they aren't appropriate for sponsorship, although they are certainly appropriate for regular MOTU updates (just a different hat).
<Hobbsee> persia: might be a good thing for new people to do
<Hobbsee> that way they don't have to write the code themselves, but take the patch and apply it.
<bddebian> Heya persia, Hobbsee
<persia> Hobbsee: Absolutely.
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<persia> Hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> bddebian: right, youv'e got a job.
<persia> bddebian: 1500 patches that need debdiffs & uploads (or just flat rejection) :)
<Hobbsee> no, not quite that
<Hobbsee> to write the documentation, and help new people out with applying them.
<bddebian> Huh?
<ajmitch> bddebian: hop to it, before you get beaten
 * persia suggests that editing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing might be a good way to do that, but thinks most of it is already there
<bddebian> What am I doing?
<ajmitch> everything
<persia> bddebian: You're the new meta-MOTU: you get to make sure everything gets done :)
<ajmitch> more specifically, taking patches that aren't on the u-u-s watchlist
<bddebian> hahaha
<ajmitch> bddebian: you seem to think that we're joking?
<bddebian> You must be since you all know that I suck :)
<ajmitch> no, this is a way to shut you up & keep you so busy that you can't complain about sucking or being stupid :)
<bddebian> hah
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<LaserJock> man I love merging hugemongous packages :/
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> As much as I love reviewing crappy ones? :-)
<LaserJock> running grab-merge.sh on gcompris is gonna take almost 400MB
<StevenK> Mmmm, yummy
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
 * StevenK works on giving LaserJock a complex some more
<Hobbsee> yay, ponies!
 * LaserJock twitches
<bddebian> Jesus, could we get a few more packages on REVU please?
<StevenK> Sure.
<LaserJock> I'm sure that could be arranged
 * imbrandon uploads 40 more
<bddebian> That's just 40 more that will get ignored ;-P
<imbrandon> maybe REVU should be wiped at every FF ( e.g. start clean for the next release )
<imbrandon> atleaste all packages "archived" , thus a new upload will bring them back
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that was the plan
<Hobbsee> but people started uploading stuff for hardy, during gutsy.
<imbrandon> ahh then those people need to have gotten a "too bad" when they asked what happened :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> btw hiya *
<Hobbsee> greetings :)
<bddebian> wtf: aswvdial_0.1patch2.dsc
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> Well that was worth wasting my time on
<mdomsch> for uploads to REVU, do we have to change debian/changelog to use hardy now, or can it remain as gutsy?
<bddebian> Hardy
<StevenK> mdomsch: If you upload as Gutsy, Soyuz will yell at you.
<persia> mdomsch: Just to make sure, are you considering an upload of a candidate for hardy, or a candidate for gutsy?
<mdomsch> hardy most likely, though Dell will likely publish the packages for feisty and gutsy too
<mdomsch> firmware-tools and firmware-addon-dell for flashing BIOS
<persia> mdomsch: Hmm...  Is there a backporting / update policy for the Dell repos?
<imbrandon> i would target hardy then -backport it
<imbrandon> Dell has seperate repos? why
 * persia tends to agree with imbrandon, but it may depend on Dell policies
<persia> imbrandon: Special add-ons which we don't have or want yet.
<mdomsch> we don't have policies yet, we haven't published debs yet
<mdomsch> but we do publish rpms for other distros/versions
 * bddebian covers his ears
<mdomsch> :-)
<imbrandon> mdomsch: assuming your part of the DELL team i would closely follow the Ubuntu policy ( or atleaste have a good reason not to )
<mdomsch> imbrandon, yes, which is why I'm asking and trying to understand
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: this is the problme that you need to sign with the dell key, isnt it?
<mdomsch> I believe no more new packages will be accepted for feisty and gutsy via MOTU
<persia> mdomsch: I'm generally in favor of using distro releases when feasible, so in this case, I'd suggest an upload to hardy, and performing the backport for the others.
<imbrandon> :) mdomsch normaly it would be targeted at the current development release, then semi automaticly added to -backports after a but of testing
<mdomsch> yet those are the releases we're shipping now or will soon
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: correct, but you're dell.  so it's probably possible to mangle things.
<Hobbsee> assuming soyuz doesnt blow up.
<imbrandon> mdomsch: technicly yes, but new {feisty,gusty}-backports can happen
<mdomsch> ahh, -backports - I hadn't seen that
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: would the hardy/gutsy/feisty packages be the same?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: except that a lot don't use backports, so -updates might be smarter.
<mdomsch> Hobbsee, certainly same source; most likely different packages due to different python versions
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: this is for dell, theey can enable -backports if they want :)
 * persia votes for -updates with special pleading to the archive-admins
<mdomsch> which is fine by me
<mdomsch> imbrandon, Hobbsee, if it's not enabled by default, we haven't enabled it in our factory images
<imbrandon> mdomsch: will python-central python-support not take care of the versioning diffrences ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: then i dont want to see a repeat of the flashplugin fiasco.
<persia> imbrandon: True, but it's "Community Support": do you want backports by default?
<mdomsch> oh, that's right - debs build the .pyc files at install time
<imbrandon> persia: personaly since i'm on the backports team it wouldent bother me, but i see your point
<mdomsch> then the same package will probably work on all
<persia> mdomsch: Right.  .py is distributed, and .pyc is local.
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: right.  then throw it into hardy, and then get the archive admins to copy it to the other releases.
<mdomsch> persia, fedora does that different, fwiw
<Hobbsee> abuse of power, but oh well.
<persia> mdomsch: So does everyone not debian-derived :)
<imbrandon> heh yea ubuntu == <3
 * mdomsch tries to understand and follow the rules before discarding them
<imbrandon> well you've come to the correct place :)
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: the rules are "no new packages to released versions, unless they fit !sru, unless there's a damned good reason.  assuming the build system wont curl up in a ball and die"
<Hobbsee> in a nutshell, that's the rule
<Hobbsee> easiest way to get something in is to get it into the development version, then get it backported.
<Hobbsee> or, in special cases as this, copied, so it appears in -updates
<imbrandon> and persia fwiw i did do a fresh install of gutsy for my step-dad tonight ( converting him from vista w00t ) and multiverse is indeed on
<Hobbsee> does the help?
<mdomsch> now for backports, do I or do I not have to edit debian/changelog to s/hardy/gutsy/ ?
<mdomsch> if it's just a file copy on the archive, I assume no
<imbrandon> you dont, its automagic
<mdomsch> cool
<Hobbsee> mdomsch: it would be to gutsy-backports anyway.  </pedant>
<imbrandon> assuming no source changes are needed etc etc etc
<Hobbsee> i dont think you *can* upload to gutsy anymore, without the build system blowing up.
<Hobbsee> i think it has to be -updates or -backports
<imbrandon> if source changes are needed then a direct upload to -backports is required and alot of a$$ kissing to the archive team
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: chocolate accepted.  :)
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> other bribes also accepted.
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks for the confirmation.  I think that's broken, but will wait until I'm organised to complain.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: just none of multiverse is used by default.
<imbrandon> correct
<Hobbsee> i guess that makes sense - the first step in any ubuntu script is to enable universe, do an update, then install the required codec
<imbrandon> nothing is used, and i 1000% agree with the way it is
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: right
<imbrandon> but we had this "disscussion" the other nigth
<imbrandon> night*
<Hobbsee> ah right.  i was probably "studying"
<imbrandon> i 1000% agree it should be on but nothing installed from it, saves tons of support
<Hobbsee> heh
 * Hobbsee just wants to know how people randomly manage to remove parts of their kernel.
<persia> Whereas I believe that due to the questionable nature of some of the contents, there should be a click-through at least.
<persia> Hobbsee: rm?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Wielding sudo mv/rm ?
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: I dd zeros in the middle of it.
 * StevenK high fives persia 
<imbrandon> persia: thats easy to fix, if its questionable dont put it in the archive :)
<persia> Tonio_: That's living dangerously :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> no, they seem to remove the generic kernel package.  and then whine that they have no l-u-m, so their card doesnt work.
<Hobbsee> the stuff is seeded, it's on installs, it's mandatory to have it for upgrades...yet somehow people still file bugs due to not having it.  *sigh*
<imbrandon> they might be manualy installing a -rt or kernel image , e.g. linux-image-2.X.X-rt not the meta package
<imbrandon> that woudl do it
<Hobbsee> hm, yeah, could do.
<persia> imbrandon: I'll also agree with that, but https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-November/000512.html is authoritative today.
<imbrandon> sure
<LaserJock> persia: authoritative regarding what?
<persia> LaserJock: Multiverse inclusion policy
<LaserJock> persia: there wasn't much said
<persia> LaserJock: To give context, last week imbrandon and I were debating whether multiverse should be configured by default.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I thought mayber we were back to Windows binaries
<LaserJock> *maybe
<bddebian> heh
<persia> Essentially, imbrandon's position is that it's a support nightmare to explain to each and every user how to enable multiverse, and it's my position that parts of multiverse are possibly inappropriate for some uses.  We're both right, but it doesn't help that there are no restrictions on multiverse inclusion.
<persia> LaserJock: Related, but not the current topic of debate.  The policy I cited applies in both cases.
<LaserJock> well, kinda
<LaserJock> somebody really needs to respond to that thread
<LaserJock> I don't think anybody knows what it was about
<imbrandon> what thread?
<persia> LaserJock: I disagree that the thread needs a response.  Someone needs to define a reasonable goal for multiverse, and promote that set of criteria.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-November/000498.html
<persia> If approved, the thread can be revisited.
<LaserJock> persia: they don't know about it
<LaserJock> I talked to dholbach
<persia> LaserJock: Who doesn't know about it?
<LaserJock> and he didn't know what was going on
<LaserJock> he thought it was just non-free stuff
<persia> Right.  And pq has an advocate on REVU.
<LaserJock> which of course is fine fore Multiverse
<LaserJock> *for
<LaserJock> the question is specifically about Windows binaries
<LaserJock> and that *hasn't* been brought up
<persia> LaserJock: Thanks for the heads-up: I thought this was intentional.  I've a draft I've been not posting, and will send it wiithin the next 12 hours.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: what makes a diffrence if its a windows binary or a BSD binary etc ? if its distributable
<LaserJock> and dholbach was like, "why hasn't anybody said anything then?"
<LaserJock> imbrandon: some MOTUs are concerned about security, viruses, etc.
<imbrandon> ok then take wine out, wtf
<persia> Because Toni reported it as a Windows binary in the blob post.
<imbrandon> that makes no sense
<persia> imbrandon: I'm not opposed to wine, or windows binaries, but I can't support them.  That's the essence of my point.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: because it's a slipper slope according to crimsun
<LaserJock> *slippery
<imbrandon> LaserJock: the slope was choosen when we put wine in, i mean you cant give somone a tool and expect them not to use it
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> but that doesn't mean we have to have packages for it
<LaserJock> we have 0install
<TheMuso> Yay. Storm coming.
<LaserJock> but we don't provide 0install packages
 * persia still thinks there is a difference between supporting user-insalled Windows software and distributing Windows software.
<LaserJock> in any case, the objection was brought up
<LaserJock> several MOTUs had problems with it
<StevenK> TheMuso: Really? Still bright and sunny here
<LaserJock> so we should have some sort of discussion and resolution of the issue
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah. Cloudi is building up, and thunder can be heard.
<imbrandon> persia: i think you mix up supporting the packaging and supporting a program, very few is ANY programs we support as the coomunity, i've seen you make that statement before and it baffles me
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i thought the resolution was pretty clear when mdz said "if its distributeable"
<LaserJock> I honestly don't care what the resolution is, I just think we should have some sort of policy
<persia> imbrandon: When I have time, I try to fix all the bugs I can.  I further try to help users to use the software, and make sure it works.  90% off the stuff I investigate is for packages I will never use, sometimes in languages I do not know.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, not exactly
<persia> I try to provide support.  I do not require you to do so, but I do expect that you will not make it harder for me to do so.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: how is that not clear ? seems cut and dry to me
<StevenK> TheMuso: Neat. Hopefully it won't end up as muggy as it was yesterday
<persia> LaserJock: We do have a policy.  The last message in the thread is authoritative.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah.
<LaserJock> persia: I don't think it exactly is
<imbrandon> persia: and i also like to make the end user experince for adding new software easy, i dont ask you to support it either
<imbrandon> same other reverse
<imbrandon> only*
<LaserJock> it was stated that Debian wouldn't take it
<persia> imbrandon: Actually, you do :), but that's a different issue (and I don't mind)
<LaserJock> and since that was the criteria for the policy we have
<imbrandon> LaserJock: how is it not, its from the CEO of canonical and a member of .....
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Good point.  That means it's not acceptable to us.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: if they didn't know the specifics
<LaserJock> bah
<persia> LaserJock: You might want to leave a comment on the REVU entry...
<imbrandon> we have firmware and other bits ( firefox ) that debian wont take, we're != debian
<imbrandon> LaserJock: they dont have to know the specifics
<imbrandon> you think someone will change their mind because its a BSD or SUNOS or $other binary ? wtf
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well many MOTUs felt so
<LaserJock> so it's worth addressing
<LaserJock> from mdz: My implicit policy for multiverse has always been that it must be
<LaserJock> distributable, and little else.  It was modeled after Debian non-free, which
<persia> I don't think the source of the binary matters: I'd be just as opposed to a new BSD or SunOS binary.
<imbrandon> wtf so inclusion would read "if its distributable but not built on Windows"
<LaserJock> is similarly defined (everything which doesn't meet the DFSG but is still
<imbrandon> what if its a reactos binary?
<LaserJock> distributed by Debian).
<LaserJock> the point being that Multiverse is modeled after Debian non-free
<LaserJock> and several people said that Debian would never take this package
<imbrandon> yes but not byte for byte, just as ubuntu != debian
<LaserJock> so it's *worth* discussing for goodness sakes
<LaserJock> I honestly don't care about the outcome
<LaserJock> but I really feel like we need so real resolution
<imbrandon> and it was, and because the awnser wasent liked it has to be driven out, thats what i'm getting at, a specific question was asked "what is the inclusion policy" and one was give, it falls in that so whats the problem
<LaserJock> imbrandon: the question is specifically about Windows binaries
<persia> LaserJock: I'm not sure we don't have real resolution at this point.  I don't understand how the last message isn't clear, and I don't understand why only Windows is bad.
<LaserJock> because when I talked with dholbach he was like "oh, I didn't know that that was about"
<LaserJock> I think they thought it was just the usual thing
<LaserJock> which we all know
<persia> LaserJock: Check with elmo: that's the only person who needed to know.
<imbrandon> omfg listen to the words i'm saying LaserJock , one second, listen to me , the specific question was "what is the multiverse inclusion policy" and that windows binary falls into it, NOW if you want to bring up a second question or exception fine, but the decision is very clear IMHO
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but that was *not* the question
 * persia agrees with imbrandon despite not agreeing with the decision
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it WAS https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-November/000498.html
<imbrandon> ^^ READ
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that was the guy who's trying to push his stuff
<imbrandon> and?
<LaserJock> he *nowhere* mentions the stuff that crimsun and the other guys talked about
<imbrandon> err shit wrong link
<LaserJock> they know the multiverse policy as much as everybody else
<persia> LaserJock: So, what does that matter.  Interested party asks project leader.  Project leader identifies delegate.  Delegate publishes policy.
<LaserJock> bahhhh
<LaserJock> screw it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mdz stated "any thing thats distributweable"
 * mdomsch uploads firmware-tools and firmware-addon-dell to REVU
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I know, but I don't feel like he looked at the issue
<LaserJock> I just want to be sure
<LaserJock> but well, it's not my package and I don't care about this at all
<LaserJock> I just want to make sure that the objections that people had are addressed
<persia> LaserJock: Please, I do agree that the policy needs to be redefined, I just don't think that is the place to argume about it.  I think a wiki draft policy, review by MC, and presentation to TB would have a greater chance of accomplishing something.
 * mebrown says thanks to mdomsch...
<imbrandon> LaserJock: what issue, i think he looked at it very clearly, its not a question if X can be included, its a question of what can be, you cant do every package on a case by case you have to follow or change the policy
<LaserJock> persia: that's what I'm trying to do!!!!!
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  My misunderstanding.  From your notes above, I had the impression you were arguing with the process for establishing the current policy.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: and if that is the case then all firmware will have to be removed because it was built on and for windows to be used by those drivers
<LaserJock> I'm saying that this hasn't been properly addressed
<LaserJock> the guy sent an email to Mark
<LaserJock> who then CCd the MC
<LaserJock> it's not addressing the issue that MOTUs had
<imbrandon> LaserJock: you are looking at the wrong email, you should be looking at the one titled "multiverse inclusion policy"
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I am looking at it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ok then you see where mdz said "ok" ?
<imbrandon> i'm not seeing your point here
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Right.  I think that comes from no activity on part of MC: I'm not sure how we are intended to prod them to action.
<Zelut> anyone know a good resource for setting gconf settings via the shell/scripts?
<LaserJock> persia: I talked to dholbach last night
<imbrandon> LaserJock: as the policy stands right this second the package is ready for multiverse
<LaserJock> he wondered why the MOTUs who objected didn't reply to the email
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I would agree with you, other MOTUs didn't
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Based on that, I'm of the opinion there is more to be said, but I'm just not sure that continuing that thread is the way to do it, nor do I know that the final decision is not an infomed decision.
<LaserJock> persia: I'm just not sure
<LaserJock> that's why I'm trying to get people to write something up, get it going
<LaserJock> my goodness
<imbrandon> man-o-man but firmware built for and on windows is "OK" wtf is the diffrence
<persia> LaserJock: Regarding replies, I suspect most MOTU don't follow MC closely, and I also suspect that most would not feel obliged to respond to queries directed to MC.
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to get us to get this thing resolved
<persia> imbrandon: No difference.  Personally, I'd like to see all acceptable binary blobs restricted to "restricted", where an NDA can be signed, and followed.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i dont and dident volenteer to because i whole heartly agree with mdz's statement "anything thats distributable" and that falls into that category IMHO so why do i need to reply or write something ?
<imbrandon> in other words it IS resolved untill someone oposing brings up an issue and gets a new policy
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I didn't say you did
<LaserJock> bahhhhhhhhh
<persia> imbrandon: I'll agree to that: I think LaserJock is only trying to start the opposition at this point.
<imbrandon> right
<LaserJock> all I'm saying is that it looks like the opposition to the policy was not getting heard
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to make sure we get proper resolution to the issue
<LaserJock> I personally agree with imbrandon, but the specific issue should be addressed by MC/TB IMO
<imbrandon> sure i can agree to that since they dident email anyone they cant be heard, but on the other hand saying "Windows" binarys cant be in multiverse wont fly i can 1000% tell you that
<imbrandon> you might find some other way to get that package not included but it wont be for that because all other binary only packages could be removed using the same arguments
<LaserJock> well, I'm not going to argue about it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mdz is still on the TB afaik
<LaserJock> but there were some well-respected MOTUs who disagree
<LaserJock> imbrandon: and?
<imbrandon> seemed like a official response to me
<LaserJock> no it's not
<LaserJock> mdz != TB
<imbrandon> it dident say it was a personal opinion and it came from his ubuntu adrress to the -devel ML
<imbrandon> pretty official
 * persia doesn't think it matters, and suggests forgetting about the history of that thread, and that those interested draft an alternate policy.
 * imbrandon agrees
<LaserJock> *sigh*
 * imbrandon packages Photoshop CS
<imbrandon> and runs
<LaserJock> that only took half an hour :/
<persia> LaserJock: What sort of response do you seek?  Do you want us to all agree with the undefined position, and argue that the current policy was badly generated, never applied, and something else should?
 * bddebian packages Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
<persia> imbrandon: That doesn't even meet the current policy :)
<LaserJock> persia: no, I was trying to say exactly what you just said
 * StevenK makes a movie called "imbrandon and bddebian must die" and then packages it.
<bddebian> hahaha
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  OK.  I misinterpreted "*Sigh*".  My apologies.
<imbrandon> LOL
<bddebian> StevenK: At least mine is "free" :)
<imbrandon> can i package Photoshop CS2 as Gimp-NG ?
<StevenK> bddebian: Mine can be under whatever license I want, so there
<bddebian> heh
<persia> imbrandon: With permission from Adobe, yes.
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<RAOF> Hey, anyone know if it's safe to build gecko-embedding packages against libxul1.9-dev yet?
<RAOF> Ok, given we don't *have* a 1.9 libxul package, I'll call that "no".
<warp10> Hi all!
<LaserJock> RAOF: hehe
<dholbach> good morning
 * Hobbsee stomps on midi files.
<persia> Hobbsee: Why?  What did they do to you?
<Hobbsee> persia: they wont play in wine.
<Hobbsee> i dont know why.
 * Hobbsee wants aoe music.
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you have a MIDI device defined in WINE?
<persia> Hobbsee: Alternately, might I suggest timidity?
<Hobbsee> persia: afaics, yes.  but i may be looking in th wrong place
<Hobbsee> timidity is running - but i still never get music.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Do you have a soundfont installed?
<Hobbsee> persia: taht would not be in conjunction with "Just Working", i'm sure.
<Hobbsee> ie, no.
<persia> Hobbsee: I forget.  I have heaps of soundfonts, and don't actually know if one is installed by default.  Open a bug, and subscribe me, and I'll take a look this weekend.
<Hobbsee> okay
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, hmm, i presume i follow http://frankscorner.org/index.php?p=mid or something?
<persia> Hobbsee: I thought that timidity had an init.d that did the last step, I'm just not sure about the soundfont.  That page should work though.
<LaserJock> dholbach's here, that's my que to go to bed
 * dholbach hugs LaserJock
<dholbach> LaserJock: sleep tight!
<persia> Hobbsee: I still want the bug, as I'll forget to investigate otherwise.
 * LaserJock hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> persia: will do
<LaserJock> night MOTU Land!
<Hobbsee> persia: any idea wht the init.d was?
<persia> Hobbsee: /etc/init.d/timidity I think.  I'm not near a useful machine now, and it was back in Dapper / Edgy I was chasing that.
<Hobbsee> ok
<Lutin> persia: looking at the ggobi merge: can you recall by xdg/ggobi.png is converted to xpm ?
<persia> Lutin: s/by/why/ ?
<persia> If so, it's to support the Debian menu system, for e.g. fluxbox users.
<Lutin> persia: yep, sorry :)
<Lutin> persia: ah ok
<persia> Lutin: Just in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't remember ggobi specifically at all, but that's true for everything.  Ideally, every GUI package has a debian menu file with a 32x32 xpm as well as a .desktop file.
<imbrandon> ( even some non gui apps , e.g. nano do )
<imbrandon> :)
<Lutin> hehe :)
<persia> imbrandon: True.  I've never really understood that.  Does it call x-terminal-emulator and execute inside?
<imbrandon> yea
<persia> imbrandon: Do you think that should be standard?  I'd prefer to limit at least the standard menus to GUI apps, although I'm not volunteering to strip all the extra menu files.
<imbrandon> really i have no opinion either way, i think some apps should yea, mutt , nano , etc but ls and other binutils ?
<persia> imbrandon: Hmm..  Interesting point.  Perhaps curses apps are OK, and others less so?
<imbrandon> yea, thats kinda what i was getting at and dident know it
 * persia doesn't dare propose the inclusion of .desktop files for curses apps to -desktop
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> although tech curses apps are ( a form of ) GUI ( see: MS Windows 1.0 )
 * imbrandon ducks
<persia> imbrandon: I did, and I didn't want to remember having done so.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> but serouisly i guess thats the thinking, because mc does too
<imbrandon> and others the more i think about it
<imbrandon> ( the debian menu, not .desktop )
<jdong> imbrandon: poke; would you like to sponsor KTorrent 2.2.3 into hardy for me? :)
 * persia encourages jdong to use the sponsors queues, and scream when they are broken, rather than poking people
<Hobbsee> <gasp>
<imbrandon> jdong: if it can wait ~9 hours, i definately will, i'm in total wind-down mode tonight
<Hobbsee> thanks, persia!
 * jdong heeds advice :)
<imbrandon> btw jdong why havent you applied for MOTU yet ? heh
<jdong> imbrandon: funny you should mention that
<persia> imbrandon: You should check your mail...
<jdong> imbrandon: just sent off that e-mail
<imbrandon> ahhh lol
 * imbrandon looks
<jdong> ooh look at that, bug reports I can close in ktorrent at the same time :D
 * persia wonders why imbrandon isn't a listed sponsor, given vocal support over a long time
<imbrandon> and having sponsord a few packages :)
<imbrandon> hrm i dont seem to find the email, was it sent reciently ?
<imbrandon> e.g. last 2 hours
<jdong> I smacked my forehead when I hit send
<jdong> realized I forgot to put imbrandon down :)
<jdong> who has been unfortunate enough to be dragged into sponsorin my junk in the past ;-)
<persia> imbrandon: You weren't cc'd.  jdong: you might want to forward that mail :)
<imbrandon> persia: i'm on the MC list though
<imbrandon> so i should have still a copy
<jdong> I'm sitting in mod queue for MC list
<imbrandon> ahh
<dholbach> approved 2 minutes ago
<persia> imbrandon: Hmm...  I don't know why you don' have it then.
<imbrandon> slow mail ( gmail via imap ) it'll be here if it was approved 2 minutes ago
<imbrandon> rsn
<imbrandon> persia: infact i replied to your mc mail about IRC heh, so i know i'm subscribed :)
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  I was trying to ignore that :)
 * imbrandon kills afterthoughts
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> anyone else notice they got osx 10.5 loaded on an eeepc :)
<persia> MOTU applicants: it's awfully nice when there are links to LP and your wiki page in your application :)  Your sponsors know who you are, but it's an extra hunt.
<jdong> persia: oops, this isn't a good start of me doing things right :)
<persia> jdong: Unfortunately it's something we each only get to do once.  I wasn't happy with my own application after sending it either :)
 * imbrandon got a ~1 hour drilling by mdz and co. instead of a nice email to MC :)
<imbrandon> actualy that was for core-dev, not sure whom I talked to for MOTU
<jdong> yeah I remember you coming back from the core dev one breathing a huge sigh of relief :)
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> i was sweating IRL, then went for beer that night :)
<jdong> alright fine, taunt me about the alcohol thing :P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i'm sure with some MIT in your blood you can find ways, not that i'm encouraging it
<imbrandon> still no mail /me goes to troll the archives
 * jdong makes wishlist for Santa
<jdong> (1) 3.0GHz quad-core penryn......
<imbrandon> (1) eeepc (2) new computer chair (3) Employment at a FL/OSS based company
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i'm easy
<jdong> ooh (2) eeepc!
<\sh> moins
<jdong> umm... (3) Dodge Charger RT AWD....
<imbrandon> heya \sh
<imbrandon> jdong: what email do you use for REVU ?
<jdong> imbrandon: probably jdong@ubuntu.com if I've uploaded anything there (vaguely recall a long time back)
<persia> imbrandon: It's not REVU.  It's in the sponsors queue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors
<jdong> imbrandon: careful though, Tonio_ says he got it ;-)
<persia> imbrandon: There are 38 others available for you :)
<jdong> imbrandon: remember this tangle from when I first started doing KTorrent? :D
<imbrandon> got what ?
<jdong> the KTorrent upload
<imbrandon> i was gonna include a link for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/upload.py?user=blah@blah.com :)
<Tonio_> jdong, imbrandon: currently building here
<imbrandon> Tonio_: kk
<imbrandon> papa !!
<Tonio_> imbrandon: not yet still
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  I forgot about that.
<imbrandon> heh, but always fun trying
<RAOF> Hm.  I wonder under what circumstances os.getcwd() can throw a "file not found" exception.
<Tonio_> imbrandon: don't laugh about that, but I'll have to do a spermogram exam soon
<Tonio_> imbrandon: not that fun :/
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> RAOF: when the cwd doesn't exist anymore?
<RAOF> jdong: I suppose so.  Miro's being strange, then.
<Tonio_> we've been trying to make it to work for 18 month now, so it looks like there is a problem
 * Tonio_ whishes making a baby is as simple as packaging
<imbrandon> heh
<\sh> lol
<jdong> does wife go under Suggests or Recommends?
 * jdong ducks
<Tonio_> jdong: build-depends I suspect
<jdong> :)
<Tonio_> but you have to make a dh_shlibsdeps exception, since the package will depend on "mother | second-gay-father"
<Tonio_> not to say that probably should be a recommend or even suggest thing
<jdong> meh we can put a Suggest on parents
<Tonio_> imbrandon: so yes, not "papa" yet, and it looks like not going to for a moment :'(
<imbrandon> someday, Tonio_ :)
<Tonio_> imbrandon: hopefully
<Tonio_> :)
<imbrandon> maybe next time you are in the US you will get a call saying "yes" :)
<imbrandon> err on second thought, i dunno if i wanna wish comming to the US on anyone
<imbrandon> :P
<imbrandon> grr dholbach i sent the mail to MC from the wrong email address, mind pushing it though ?
<jdong> imbrandon: have you figured out any way for mutt or something in the sending stack to rewrite from: based on to:?
<jdong> I'd love to be able to rewrite my @gmail to @ubuntu based on if I'm sending to a Ubuntu list
<imbrandon> heh yea me too
<persia> jdong: procmail can do that for you, if the internal mutt scripts aren't sufficiently powerful
<imbrandon> only its from @brandonholtsclaw.com
<\sh> oh damn...more exploits for wireshark
<persia> (Just tell mutt to use procmail on outbound, and tell procmail where to look for an SMTP server)
<jdong> persia: interesting idea :) I'll have to look into that
<imbrandon> yea i can see my stack now, incomming is already complicated enough, now i'll have going out evolution --> procmail --> sendmail --> gmail smtp --> ....
<jdong> haha
<jdong> yeah I don't like watching my mail evolve to rocket science either :D
<imbrandon> i've just learned to try and keep most things serverside so i dont have alot of setup on a new box
 * persia apologies to all German speakers for poor spelling :(
<imbrandon> before gmail's imap i had an "interesting" setup to say the leaste
<imbrandon> basicly all mail forwarded to gmail , then i got gmail via pop to my own server and used imap to access it from there, and google smtp out so my "sent" would be in the webui too
<imbrandon> now atleaste i get to cut my own server out of the equasion, except for archives
<\sh> imbrandon, so it's easier to setup a mail service directly and not using gmail ;)
<imbrandon> \sh: maybe, but gmail spam filter > spamassasin
<persia> Â¥sh: In that case it's harder to use the gmaili spam filter
<jdong> imbrandon: I still have that setup (mirrored via getmail/fetchmail and served thru dovecot) going :D
<imbrandon> jdong: enable imap via the settings hehe
<jdong> imbrandon: set it up like two weeks before IMAP came out
<jdong> GRR :)
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> but it's working now so I'd rather not change it.... got a spare 250GB drive sitting here to collect mail so thought what the heck, might as well
<imbrandon> ssh jdong@dovecot shutdown -h now
<jdong> haha
 * jdong shamefully admits writing an apparmor profile excitedly to secure dovecot :D
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> imbrandon: done
<imbrandon> dholbach: thanks, my mistake
<jdong> it's that new-security-system reflex.... gotta use it like crazy for a day then abandon it :D
<dholbach> no problem
 * dholbach hugs listadmin
<jdong> wow it's 3AM, time for bed :)
<Hobbsee> yay, listadmin!
 * Hobbsee goes thru ti too
 * Hobbsee thougth norsetto was a MOTU.
<dholbach> norsetto is
<RAOF> They are, aren't they?  Recently approved.
<Hobbsee> his mail's getting moderated.  i wonder if norsetto@u.c isnt listed on launcphad or something.
<\sh> oh damn..I'm doomed...why I took the wireshark for security fixing
<\sh> this package is evil but important..:(
<persia> Hobbsee: Is it based on LP emails?  I thought listadmin was separate.
<Hobbsee> persia: this is ubuntu-devel, which i believe takes a list of the people in ~ubuntu-dev, and whitelists them.
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  That might be special.  I was thinking of the subscriber-only block.
<Hobbsee> ah yes.
<Hobbsee> there's whitelisting and stuff from listadmin, i think
 * Hobbsee hasnt needed to use it yet
<geser> morning
<\sh> damn....27 CVEs for wireshark/etherreal from 0.99.0 up to 0.99.5 that means dapper will get a lot of love now..and a lot of dpatches
<\sh> Fujitsu, ping dapper wireshark/ethereal
<Fujitsu> \sh: Hi.
<\sh> Fujitsu, the only way to fix at least CVE-2006-3627 CVE-2006-3628 CVE-2006-3629 CVE-2006-3630 CVE-2006-3631 CVE-2006-3632 is to try to find a way to bump the dissectors of 0.99.0 in dapper to 0.99.2
<ubotu> Unspecified vulnerability in the GSM BSSMAP dissector in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.10.11 to 0.99.0 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (crash) via unspecified vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3627)
<ubotu> Multiple format string vulnerabilities in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.10.x to 0.99.0 allow remote attackers to cause a denial of service and possibly execute arbitrary code via the (1) ANSI MAP, (2) Checkpoint FW-1, (3) MQ, (4) XML, and (5) NTP dissectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3628)
<ubotu> Unspecified vulnerability in the MOUNT dissector in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.9.4 to 0.99.0 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (memory consumption) via unspecified vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3629)
<ubotu> Multiple off-by-one errors in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.9.7 to 0.99.0 have unknown impact and remote attack vectors via the (1) NCP NMAS and (2) NDPS dissectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3630)
<ubotu> Unspecified vulnerability in the SSH dissector in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.9.10 to 0.99.0 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (infinite loop) via unknown attack vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3631)
<ubotu> Buffer overflow in Wireshark (aka Ethereal) 0.8.16 to 0.99.0 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service and possibly execute arbitrary code via the NFS dissector. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3632)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Why can't we backport those fixes?
<\sh> Fujitsu, most of this stuff is not documented correctly in wireshark svn...even RH and others upgraded to 0.99.2 because of those issues these days
<Fujitsu> I recall them doing that yes... hmm..
<Fujitsu> How big is the diff, and what kind of changes are there?
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'm just trying to diff from 0.99.0 to 0.99.2 and prepare some patches and hopefully it works
<\sh> Fujitsu, go to the wireshare viewsvn and diff e.g. epan/dissectors/packet-gsm.c from 18759 (0.99.2) to 17982 (0.99.0) revisions
<Fujitsu> \sh: Are their patches these days a bit more sane and locatable?
<\sh> Fujitsu, yepp
<\sh> Fujitsu, 0.99.0 was the first wireshark release...everything before was ethereal...and I don't know why they documented the stuff much better...
<Fujitsu> \sh: OK, so once we're at 0.99.2, we should be OK forever?
<\sh> Fujitsu, nope, I don't think so
<\sh> Fujitsu, but let me try something first...I need to test something
<\sh> Fujitsu, no...doesn't work .. we need to bump at least to 0.99.2 or we try to backport latest wireshark to dapper
<\sh> Fujitsu, tbh, I don't know what is the best way...carrying a big patch from 0.99.0 to 0.99.2 in the package and patch more CVE fixes from 0.99.2 upto now
<Fujitsu> \sh: Argh, damn.
<\sh> Fujitsu, thinking about the importance of this package...I would try to carry a patch ....
<\sh> Fujitsu, and we should ask for main inclusion for hardy :)
<Fujitsu> I swear, some upstreams are really looking to get themselves killed. phpMyAdmin, WordPress, [insert other PHP projects here]...
<\sh> Fujitsu, agreed ;)
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'll raise the wireshark discussion on -devel.
<Fujitsu> I guess I'd better have a look at phpMyAdmin in Gutsy at least.
<Fujitsu> Woah, they provide patches too now!
<pwnguin> arg. why does gnome have to redo all the basic types
<persia> pwnguin: flexibility
<pwnguin> i guses
<pwnguin> guess
<pwnguin> but it also sucks having to know what the hell g_new0() does in order to debug code
<awalton__> O_o that's a problem?
<persia> pwnguin: No, really.  The idea is that compliant GTK apps could be ported to an environment where the definitions of the basic types were different, and the application would never need any changes, as long as GTK worked.
<pwnguin> its a problem in the sense that i dont know gtk off hand
<persia> pwnguin: It's an object layer.  Works about the same as for any OO environment.
<persia> Ah.  There's docs :)
<awalton__> good docs too
<pwnguin> i like to take a kantian cosmopolitan approach
<pwnguin> everywhere looks the same ;)
<pwnguin> the sad thing is, everyone writes their portable code different
<pwnguin> sdl doesnt look like gtk doesnt look like qt
<awalton__> tis a shame.
<persia> pwnguin: Well, you could learn WX.  There's a couple apps need porting :)
<pwnguin> anyways, i think i found the offending line
<pwnguin> helpfully commented
<pwnguin> 	/* When opening enclosures we need the type to determine
<pwnguin> 	   the configured launch command. The format of the enclosure
<pwnguin> 	   info: <url>[,<mime type] */	
<awalton__> whatcha debugging pwnguin
<pwnguin> liferea
<awalton__> ah.
<pwnguin> that's supposedly to do with podcasts / enclosures
<s1024kb> norsetto: hello my teacher
<norsetto> hiya s1024kb
<dholbach> hey s1024kb, hey norsetto
<norsetto> s1024kb: happily merging!?
<geser> hi s1024kb, hi norsetto
<s1024kb> norsetto: i am happy to see you again! just want to finish "yappy" now
<s1024kb> geser: hi!
<norsetto> hi dholbach!
<s1024kb> dholbach::^^
<norsetto> heya geser :-)
<emgent> heya norsetto ^^
<norsetto> emgent: oh, now I feel safe ....
<emgent> :)
 * cyberix hopes nmap 4.23 will make it for Hardy.
<cyberix> (note: /me does not live in Germany)
<norsetto> cyberix: don't worry, we all know about you and your boots ;-)
<DaveMorris> can someone review my package on revu please  - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<norsetto> Does anyone know how often dad is checking the debian archives for packages to sync/merge?
<geser> DaveMorris: the changelog entry could be more infomative, like "* Initial packaging (LP: #162913)"
<DaveMorris> ok, I'll do that on my other packages as well
<geser> DaveMorris: if you have no files in /usr/{s,}bin don't list it in debian/dirs
<geser> and your rules files looks like a mix from cdbs and a normal rules file with debhelper (and you include two different patch systems)
<DaveMorris> which 1 do I need?
<s1024kb> norsetto: i had already use "grab-merge" to merge "yappy", now i should edit the changelog in /debian, right?
<norsetto> s1024kb: right
<DaveMorris> geser: I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by it been a mix of debhelper and cdbs
<norsetto> s1024kb: you checked if grab-merge did a good job? You happy about the resulting package?
<geser> DaveMorris: and name the -dev package only "libcpptest-dev" (you usually don't need the soversion in the -dev package name)
<s1024kb> norsetto: in this case, i think yes... what i should add to the changelog? i open "yappy_1.8-3ubuntu1.patch", shall i copy the paragraph "merge from debian unstable..." and paste them in changelog?
<norsetto> s1024kb: you should work on the source tree that grab-merge expanded for you
<geser> DaveMorris: you include files from cdbs (line 3 and 4). with cdbs you only specify the targets which are different than usual (or need additional steps)
<s1024kb> norsetto: don't know what to do...
<geser> DaveMorris: the rest of your rules file looks like a rules file which doesn't use cdbs but only debhelper
<norsetto> s1024kb: in the dir where you run grab-merge, there should be a directory called yappy-1.8
<DaveMorris> I was under the impression I need lines 3/4 for the cdbs patches to be applied
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> s1024kb: do you see it? Thats the root of the source tree that grab-merge expanded for you; it contains its guess of the merge
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes, see it
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, then you should work on that tree
<norsetto> s1024kb: check if the changes that grab-merge made are acceptable, and if so fill in the changelog in its /debian directory
<norsetto> s1024kb: its like for any other source tree you have seen before
<geser> DaveMorris: yes, but you mixed different packaging styles
<DaveMorris> ok, which one am I best to use in this instance?
<BugMaN> hi all
<norsetto> bugman: hola
<s1024kb> norsetto: i had read all the files carefully already, and i thought that they're like what i imagine... and i open /debian/changelog,  i saw that the second record is about yappy 1.8.3, the changes of debian. and the top record is "merge from debian...", shall i add anything in the file now?
<BugMaN> norsetto: ave :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: I think so, what would you add in the changelog?
 * pochu waves
<s1024kb> norsetto: ... i don't know... i have been thinking about it for 2 days already...
<geser> DaveMorris: if you want to use dpatch, include "/usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make" in your rules file, man the clean target depend on unpatch and the build target depend on patch
<geser> DaveMorris: and you need to convert your patch files to dpatch
<DaveMorris> I created the patches using cdbs-edit-patch is that a problem
<geser> the alternative would be to convert your rules file complete to cdbs
<geser> DaveMorris: they are then for simple-patchsystem from cdbs
<norsetto> s1024kb: you should report all the changes from previous ubuntu versions which you are carrying over
<s1024kb> norsetto: but the file seems to have written them already...
<norsetto> s1024kb: I don't think the changelog has though
<norsetto> s1024kb: what is in the changelog now?
<s1024kb> norsetto: Line 1: yappy (1.8-3ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 2:   * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 3:     - SUMMARISE HERE
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 4:  -- Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:35:32 +0100
<norsetto> ok, lets work line by line. You are happy about line 1?
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 5: yappy (1.8-3) unstable; urgency=low
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 6: * Bug fix: "python-yappy: typo in Description: field", thanks to Olivier
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 7: Tetard (Closes: #443680).
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok ok ... don't paste the whole thing :-)
<norsetto> s1024kb: lets work line by line. You are happy about line 1?
<s1024kb> norsetto: line 1, yes...
<norsetto> s1024kb: are you sure, for what distribution are we doing the merge?
<norsetto> s1024kb: are we merging for gutsy?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yappy-1.8, ... is it right?
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes the version number is correct, but, are we merging for gutsy?
<geser> s1024kb: small hint: what's the current development version of Ubuntu?
<s1024kb> norsetto: gutsy? right?
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, gutsy is now what we call a Stable Release
<norsetto> s1024kb: we only fix very serious bugs for it
<norsetto> s1024kb: our development version is not gutsy
<s1024kb> norsetto: understand so far... so it's...
<norsetto> s1024kb: when you made your pbuilder, you did it with ....?
<geser> s1024kb: h...y (replace the . with a-z)
<s1024kb> norsetto: feisty?
<norsetto> s1024kb: did you? Seriously?
<geser> s1024kb: next hint: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu (look at Series)
<norsetto> s1024kb: what I'm asking is for what version of pbuilder are you building, not where you installed it
<s1024kb> norsetto: hoary?but why? (sorry)
<Hobbsee> ...?
<Hobbsee> why on earth would we use pbuilders for now unsupported versions of ubuntu?
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, do you know that our next version of ubuntu is called hardy?
<s1024kb> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, thats our next version, is what we call our development version
<DaveMorris> has anyone got an example of what a <pkg>.install file should look like
<DaveMorris> I can't find one :(
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay
<norsetto> s1024kb: hardy is our development version, gutsy is our current version, feisty is not our current version but we still support it
<s1024kb> norsetto: okay, understand
<norsetto> s1024kb: so, why would we merge for gutsy? Do we need to do that? (I answer: NO)
<norsetto> s1024kb: therefore you have to change the first line, agreed?
<s1024kb> norsetto: we merge for "Hardy", oh, i understand now!
<s1024kb> norsetto: so i should change: "yappy (1.8-3ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low"
<s1024kb> norsetto: and now i understand why we're fixing bugs, merging packages here... for the next version. because in my experience i thought that we're doing that for the current OS... i guess that it's what a windows user will think...
<effie_jayx> could anyone help me with my gpg key
<norsetto> s1024kb: right
<effie_jayx> it's preventiing me from signing anything
<effie_jayx> I am playing around making debdiffs and it says it can't saign the packages
<effie_jayx> I know I have my key in my system
<norsetto> s1024kb: its indeed a very common problem with many users
<norsetto> s1024kb: now, back to business, what changes are we carrying over from previous ubuntu changes?
<s1024kb> norsetto: i have to apologize, before this i really don't have the "next version" in mind... sorry
<norsetto> s1024kb: don't have to be sorry, its a very common problem many users are having
<s1024kb> norsetto: i guess that the 1.8-3 is the latest version in this case?
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, but is that an ubuntu version?
<norsetto> s1024kb: that version is coming from Debian, doesn't include whatever change was made by Ubuntu, which is why we need to merge
<s1024kb> norsetto: the latest ubuntu version should be 1.8-3ubuntu1?
<norsetto> s1024kb: no, thats the one we are doing
<norsetto> s1024kb: we are working on that right now, the one before that is the last
<s1024kb> norsetto: 1.8-2? sorry...
<norsetto> s1024kb: what versions you you see in the changelog?
<geser> effie_jayx: does your key uid match the name entry in the changelog (including all comments)?
<s1024kb> norsetto: 1.8-3ubuntu1, 1.8-3, 1.8-2ubuntu1, 1.8-2, ...
<norsetto> s1024kb: ok, so what would be the last ubuntu version, the one before 1.803ubuntu1 ?
<norsetto> sorry, before 1.8-3ubuntu1
<s1024kb> norsetto: 1.8-3?
<norsetto> s1024kb: the last UBUNTU version
<effie_jayx> geser,  let me check
<s1024kb> norsetto: 1.8-2?
<effie_jayx> geser,  checked .. it maches
 * effie_jayx echo's DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME
<geser> and you get that error that the secret key couldn't be found?
<effie_jayx> geser,  yes
<geser> btw signing is only imporant when you want to upload not for debdiffs
<effie_jayx> geser,  it says ... public key not found
<geser> public key?
<effie_jayx> geser,  really?. I am new to this so I though it was needed
<geser> can you paste bin the whole output?
<effie_jayx> geser,  it read public key not fpund
<effie_jayx> ok
<geser> effie_jayx: yes, as the signture is only on the .dsc file and .changes file and both files aren't in the debdiff
<s1024kb> norsetto: i guess that they're both had been modified from yappy-1.8, in Ubuntu the modified version is yappy-1.8-2, in Debian the modified version is yappy-1.8-3, so is it the last ubuntu version yappy-1.8-2?
<effie_jayx> geser, http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/44712/
<effie_jayx> geser,  it seems to me ... it's trying to search for a key that signed the package in 2005, no?
<geser> effie_jayx: debdiff tries to verify the signature of the debian.dsc and complains that you don't have that public key
<geser> you can ignore it
<effie_jayx> geser,  ok
<effie_jayx> thanks geser
<effie_jayx> ok I ma ready to make patches if needed :D
<norsetto> s1024kb: sorry, I'm having some net troubles
<Lutin> norsetto: every 30 mins iirc (how hoften DaD checks for new merges)
<Lutin> ot maybe an hour
<Lutin> or*
<norsetto> lutin: oh, I see, I'm asking since I've seen a merge in MoM since a couple of days but not yet in DaD
<Lutin> norsetto: Oo . what one ?
<s1024kb> norsetto: sorry my teacher...  i had a hard time just now, i guess that you were angry with my stupid mistakes...
<norsetto> lutin: cuyo
<s1024kb>  norsetto: i guess that they're both had been modified from yappy-1.8, in Ubuntu the modified version is yappy-1.8-2, in Debian the modified version is yappy-1.8-3, so is it the last ubuntu version yappy-1.8-2?
<norsetto> s1024kb: not at all, its that I have many things to do all at once
<Lutin> norsetto: indeed ... weird
<s1024kb> norsetto: so if you're busy now, shall we do it the tomorrow?
<Lutin> norsetto: Oo, can't find it on MoM actually
<geser> s1024kb: you hope he'll be less busy tomorrow? :)
<norsetto> s1024kb: well, you do require a lot of attention
<norsetto> lutin: just checked now and it was there!?
<norsetto> lutin: can it be the funny version number?
<Lutin> norsetto: well I checked merges.ubuntu.com/c/ , and there"s no cuyo package
<norsetto> s1024kb: the last ubuntu version is 1-8-2ubuntu1, you have to report in the changelog all the changes from that version which you are merging
<geser> norsetto: really a very interesting version 2.~-1.0~beta1-1
<norsetto> lutin: funny, I see it
<s1024kb> norsetto: sorry... thank you my teacher...
<Lutin> norsetto: you see the link on the html page, but the folder doesn't exist
<geser> norsetto: ask Keybuk why MoM lists it
<Lutin> norsetto: actually I think it's a merge from experimental
<norsetto> lutin: oh yes
<Lutin> DaD never polls experimental for updates
<norsetto> lutin: ah right, it is indeed
<Lutin> maybe MoM has some code to see if a merge comes from experimental, but it seems it just doesn't merge the package
<norsetto> lutin, geser: that explains it, thanks
<s1024kb> norsetto: i guess now i understand what i shall write in the changelog... thank you very much. i try to do it at home... i go home now, thank you for showing me a new world.
<norsetto> s1024kb: thanks to you selene, see you soon then!
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you again my teacher, i will not give up, i will work hard and i wish that i can depend on myself soon...
<norsetto> s1024kb: don't worry, one step at the time and we will be there soon
<s1024kb> norsetto: many many thanks. i see the dawn today... :-)
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> heya proppy
<proppy> heya norsetto
<proppy> norsetto: wassup
<norsetto> proppy: well, soon lunch !
<proppy> norsetto: I bet you'll be eating some viking food again
<norsetto> proppy: actually I got some kind of stomach flu today
<norsetto> proppy: maybe some rice :-(
<proppy> norsetto: My room mate ordered a rice cooker, it's a must have
<norsetto> proppy: we have plenty of those already, my wife is a fanatic of oriental cooking
<norsetto> proppy: what about you? still trying to digest debhelper?
<proppy> norsetto: maybe she can share some receipe with my girlfriend :), does she have a blog (ahah) ?
<norsetto> proppy: she has actually :-)
<proppy> norsetto: I'm kinda stuck with an impossible choice (like usual)
<proppy> norsetto: a friend of mine recently give me a CMakeList.txt to build juce
<proppy> norsetto: and as the original makefile does not generate shared library
<proppy> norsetto: and I feel pretty unconfortable patching a premake generated Makefile
<proppy> norsetto: I've give a though using cmake instead of the upstream provided makefile
<norsetto> not knowing the details I see 4 choices here
<proppy> norsetto: but if I do so, I'll be trouble with debuild reverse patching, as cmake will overwrite the upstream provided Makefile, and then cdbs patch will have trouble to revert
<proppy> I'll be glad to have some guru thought about this :)
<norsetto> proppy: well, why do you patch something which is not there?
<proppy> norsetto: I'll be using patch to add the cmake support
<proppy> norsetto: and remove the upstream provided makefile
<norsetto> proppy: is this cmake a nice new toy or you really need it (meaning, you can't do otherwise)?
<proppy> norsetto: but as cmake will create a different makefile, reverse-patch will be troublesome I guess
<proppy> norsetto: I thought about this, cause I get my hands on a CMakeList.txt for juce, then I don't have to write it myself
<proppy> norsetto: but the alternative is to patch a premake.lua generated Makefile
<proppy> norsetto: which doesn't sound nice either
<norsetto> proppy: well, the cleanest would be to ask upstream to use it
<proppy> norsetto: you mean to use cmake, or to generate a shared library and have some install rules ?
<norsetto> proppy: generate a shared library and have some install rules
<norsetto> proppy: which they can do easily with some #IFDEFS
<proppy> norsetto: I guess premake.lua already support it
<norsetto> proppy: I mean, are they interested to port this properly to linux or not?
<proppy> norsetto: but then instead of patching the generated Makefile
<proppy> norsetto: I have to patch the lua script with generate the makefile
<proppy> norsetto: and then propose my patch to the upstream
<proppy> so step 1: report missing install rules and shared library on forum
<proppy> step 2: work on a patch
<proppy> step 3: reply with the patch
<proppy> ok ?
<norsetto> proppy: why not just report the missing install rules and shared library with a patch?
<proppy> norsetto: I use to thought that report first, then fix, is a good habit
<proppy> norsetto: but it may be a wrong idea
<norsetto> proppy: it depends on upstream, some like if you report a problem and a (possible) fix at the same time
<proppy> norsetto: the upstream is very responsive, maybe he will fix it himself
<proppy> norsetto: in the next version
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom now
<proppy> norsetto: but it should speed thing if I post the fix too
<norsetto> proppy: it usually does
<proppy> norsetto: thanks for your time
<proppy> norsetto: go to class now !
<norsetto> proppy: heck, you should go to class!
 * norsetto writes a report to the principal about proppy not showing in time to class
<proppy> norsetto: already in
<deadwill> morning
<norsetto> hey deadwill, join us in #ubuntu-classroom
<\sh> woohoo...edgy wireshark cves fixed
<Fujitsu> \sh: Nice one!
<\sh> Fujitsu, 10 fixes cherry picked :) 5 backported from 0.99.6 for feisty (applies for edgy too)
<proppy> norsetto: bug #158605 commented
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158605 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] juce" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158605
<norsetto> proppy: looks good
<Fujitsu> \sh: Sounds painful.
<rexbron> Don't you want to review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=openlibraries and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
 * rexbron is running out of creative ways to ask for a review....
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: wants to review.
<norsetto> rexbron: bribes usually work .....
<norsetto> :-X
<rexbron> norsetto: Want a cookie?
<zul> morning
<eneko_tab> morning
<DaveMorris> geser: I've done it with cdbs now, hopefully its right,  can you check for me please http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<\sh> Fujitsu, dapper is a no go...you can't change it back to old variable names...they changed everything ...
<Fujitsu> \sh: -grumble-
<\sh> Fujitsu, bumping to 0.99.2 is valid, and we can backport all fixes like I did now with 0.99.3
<Fujitsu> Dapper will have to rot, then. Maybe try to backport the latest through -backports.
<\sh> well, when edgy is in the security archive, we can backport them...
<Fujitsu> We can't really backport from -security.
<\sh> wireshark package has transitional packages handy
<\sh> Fujitsu, the real problem is the complete namechange they went through
<\sh> they even changed the libnames on windows and looks like on unix too
<Fujitsu> Lovely. I don't think we can support Ethereal in Dapper then. People will have to rely on -backports, if anything.
<\sh> Fujitsu, funny thing about edgies version was, debian upstream maintainer put some not official svn checkout in..:(
<\sh> Fujitsu, e.g. for epan/dissectors/packet-http.c I had to patch it three times, to apply the CVE fix...and the real upstream version is correct :(
<Fujitsu> \sh: Fun. I'll work on phpMyAdmin back to at least Feisty, and maybe Dapper/Edgy tomorrow, but sleep for me shortly.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I'm done for today looks like...
<\sh> I think it's the longest changelog ever (actually for me)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I saw that it was rather long, yeah.
<\sh> Fujitsu, that was only feisty....edgy is much more ,)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> I guess it would be.
<geser> DaveMorris: looks better. Why are you shipping README and README.in in libcpptest0? Have you tried to install both libcpptest0 and libcpptest-dev as both ship /usr/lib/libcpptest.so.0? And you probably should add a (versioned) dependency on libcpptest0 to libcpptest-dev.
<DaveMorris> ok geser I'll look at that, I must of over looked the readme thing
<proppy> DaveMorris: (you know unittest++?)
<DaveMorris> yeah, cpptest is another one which I used in my project
<DaveMorris> so I thought I'd get it packaged
<proppy> DaveMorris: (cause I packaged unittest++ for debian, just in the case you need it)
<proppy> :)
<geser> DaveMorris: and you should also work on debian/copyright. At least the upstream authors and upstream copyright is missing.
<proppy> DaveMorris: do you supply a non -dev package ? cause I dropped it for unittest++, cause you don't really need to ship executable that depends upon a unittest shared library do you ?
<DaveMorris> proppy: good point, I hadn't thought about it that way
<proppy> DaveMorris: btw I still have an empty libunittest++0 for retro compatibility which is odd :(
<proppy> anyone know a package builded with premake (lua) ?
<Fujitsu> \sh: That is an impressive changelog.
<Fujitsu> (entry)
<\sh> Fujitsu, yeah :)
<DaveMorris> geser: Do you mind having a look at my latest attempt?
<DaveMorris> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<geser> DaveMorris: as you don't use dpatch you don't need to build-depend on it
<DaveMorris> k
<DaveMorris> geser: anything else apart from that?
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Hey, how are things on your side of the world?
<Hobbsee> rexbron: well, we're upside down still, so things are normal
<rexbron> :)
<rexbron> Hobbsee: Have time for a review?
<Hobbsee> no, sorry
 * Hobbsee has an exam tomorrow, and needs bed soon
<rexbron> its ok
<rexbron> gogogo
<rexbron> and good luck
<geser> Hobbsee: good luck for your exam
<Hobbsee> geser: thanks :)
<MagicFab> hi
<Hobbsee> oh noes, it's MagicFab
<MagicFab> How can I check which package installed another one as dependency ? I am trying to find out how debsig-verify got installed on a system.
<MagicFab> Hobbsee, I am glad to see you too :)
<Hobbsee> MagicFab: the unefficient method would be to do an apt-cache rdepends <dependancy>, and see which of those you've installed.
<Hobbsee> other effective ways are trying to remove it, and seeing what else it takes with it - assuming it's not a recommends
<Hobbsee> i think there's been something on the debian package of the day thing that does that, though
<mrigns> hmm debsign -S fails...  wrong passphrase, I does not even ask me anymore for it
<MagicFab> I mean I know how to go in Synaptic and seach in " dependencies "  only, but I' d like to know how to do the same in command line
<griffinc> Hi there -- I am working on a merge and was wondering where to put my debdiff when it's done for folks to look at?  should I open a bug on launchpad?
<Hobbsee> MagicFab: then use the rdepends stuff.
<mrigns> apt-cache depends should also work
<MagicFab> mrigns, I want that but the other way around ("list of packaages that depend on debsig-verify :" ) - but tx, didn' t know that one
<mrigns> oh, well, didn't follow the conversation ;P
<mrigns> np
<MagicFab> Hobbsee, rdpeends lists dependencies of dependencies etc. recursively but tx.
 * Hobbsee thought it only did it one layer deep
<MagicFab> hmm found a script: http://noisybox.net/computers/debdeps/
 * Hobbsee is still havign trouble figuring out if you want the deps, or rdeps of a particular package
<mrigns> *sigh* I got the same problem with debuild failing to sign packages with seahorse installed, but this time seahorse isn't involved at alle
<Hobbsee> debuild doesnt sign by default, iirc, unless you specify the key ID.
<Hobbsee> or sometimes borks at the keys
<Hobbsee> griffinc: yes, bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<Hobbsee> second link in the topic, iirc.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: heh, I'm moderated because somebody knows me well ;-)
<Hobbsee> norsetto: nah, i think something's just borked.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: although your mail was somewhat harsh, though.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: you think so? It wasn't meant to be
<MagicFab> deborphan does the job :D
 * MagicFab is now happy
 * Hobbsee dont need no deborphan :P
<MagicFab> tx all
<mrigns> Hobbsee: debuild -S always asked me for my passphrase to unlock my gpg key, the one I specified in my bashrc, but now it just skips the point where I can enter my passphrase
<norsetto> Hobbsee: must be the latino who is buried in me ...
<mrigns> after that it complains the passphrase would be wrong
<Hobbsee> mrigns: specify it with -k<yourkeyid> then
<Hobbsee> on teh debuild
<Hobbsee> norsetto: must be :P
 * Hobbsee --> bed.
<mrigns> night
<mrigns> hmm there is no -k for debuild *sigh*
<\sh> mrigns, sure there is
<Hobbsee> mrigns: yes there is.
<\sh> debuild -S -sa -k<your id>
<\sh> as an example
<\sh> guys, what was the name of the webfrontend for the server administration what soren wanted to add to ubuntu?
<StevenK> Ebox
<\sh> thx...
<mrigns> hmm it's not mentioned in the man page
<\sh> debuild knows everything of dpkg-buildpackage
<mrigns> hmm i c
<mrigns> well doesn't work either, still skips the part where I'm prompted for my pass
<\sh> mrigns, debuild -S -ksh@source e.g. works for me.
<\sh> mrigns, sure, that you have a secret key handy? :)
<mrigns> It recognises my key and everything
<mrigns> now, this really drives me mad
<\sh> phew...end of business, let's drink a beer
<mrigns> hmm killing gpg-agent solved it
<mrigns> sorry, for bothering
<simu> i downloaded jdk 6 for amd_64 bit but I did not found a plugin folder in the jre directory
<simu> no java browser plugins for 64bit yet??
<simu> shit wron channel
<ogra> simu, well http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/icedtea-java7-plugin claims its for amd64
<dfiloni> can someone view this package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8 ?
<azeem> view or review?
<dfiloni> review
<dfiloni> sorry
<griffinc> Debian has added "Homepage" to its control files -- do we keep this for Ubuntu or remove it?
<pochu> griffinc: keep it, since dpkg will be merged to support it (if it hasn't already)
<griffinc> pochu: makes sense. thanks!
<proppy> hi
<\sh> another bug bytes the dust.....openldap2.2 dapper love
<\sh> ok..cu later guys
<griffinc> one more question:  I have specified "hardy" as the distribution and lintian gives me an error 'you've specified an unknown target distribution in your upload debian/changelog file.'  I assume it's because I am running gutsy even though I am using a hardy pbuilder environment?  ok to ignore for now?
<proppy> maybe lintian@hardy doesn't know hardy yet :)
<minghua> lintian@hardy knows about hardy.
<minghua> griffinc: It's fine to ignore.  You can also run lintian in a hardy chroot, of course...
<griffinc> minghua: ah, yes.  thanks -- I'll do that.
<proppy> dpkg -L lintian | xargs grep hardy
<proppy> seems that gutsy knows hardy as well
<proppy> norsetto: I've just beat premake.lua !
<griffinc> proppy: interesting.  my lintian message lists warty through gutsy but no hardy.
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/7ce48f47eda7
<proppy> griffinc: dpkg -l lintian ?
<norsetto> proppy: dll to you too
<proppy> root@juce:/home/www/juce-1.45/build/linux# ls ../../bin | grep .so
<proppy> libjuce_debug.so
<proppy> norsetto:
<proppy> yeappa
<griffinc> 1.23.32ubuntu1
<proppy> griffinc: mine is ii  lintian        1.23.36ubuntu1 Debian package checker
<griffinc> proppy: yep, you have the hardy lintian pkg
<proppy> griffinc: :)
<proppy> griffinc: strange grep hardy in my source.list doesn't show anything
<proppy> griffinc: maybe it's because of gutsy-proposed
<pochu> proppy: try apt-cache madison lintian
<proppy> it's gutsy-backports :)
<proppy> pochu: thanks
<proppy> griffinc: lintian@gutsy-backports knows hardy
<griffinc> proppy: ok, cool. thanks!
<proppy> norsetto: my dll is bigger than yours
<norsetto> proppy: everyone is .... I haven't got any
<proppy> norsetto:  libjuce.a  libjuce_debug.a  libjuce_debug.so  libjuce.so
<proppy> norsetto: replyed with the patch upstream
<proppy> norsetto: waiting for his review
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<huats> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello huats
<LaserJock> morning bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock.  Did you ever have any luck with any of those machines?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I mashed them all together
<LaserJock> and got a 1.7GHz P4, 512MB RAM, 200GB hard drive machine going
<LaserJock> now I have to figure out what to do with the leftovers
<bddebian> heh
<proppy> norsetto: here ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes?
<geser> LaserJock: ebay?
<proppy> norsetto: what about packaging premake ?
 * RainCT thinks: is this a questions contest? :P
<norsetto> proppy: yes, what about it?
<proppy> norsetto: it will ease juce makefile hacking, even if my change get accepted upstream
<proppy> norsetto: and in the end others project could benefit of this
<norsetto> proppy: I know nothing about premake, is there any reason why is not packed by debian? like license or even technical ones?
<proppy> norsetto: I've just unpackaged the (zip) tarball
<proppy> looks like GPL
<proppy> many of .c files that build very fast
<jdong> hehehe lol at LaserJock's comment on my MOTU application :)
<proppy> and a nice executable in the end
<proppy> norsetto: I'm glad that they don't use premake to generate premake makefile
<proppy> oups
<proppy> THEY ARE !
<proppy> norsetto: sorry I didn't get your message if there were any
<proppy> (06:18:06 PM) proppy: norsetto: so the reason why it's not in debian, may be that you actually need premake to regenerate premake Makefile,
<norsetto> proppy: heck, must have been at least 10 of them, I m not going to repeat them
<proppy> sorry
<proppy> just past them somewhere
<proppy> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=262864
<ubotu> Debian bug 262864 in wnpp "ITP: premake -- A build script generator for C, C++, and C#" [Wishlist,Open]
<proppy> there is an tip
<proppy> itp
<norsetto> proppy: just kidding ;-)
<norsetto> proppy: well, it doesn't seem to be a very warm welcome to that package
<proppy> norsetto: it's on mentors http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/p/premake/
<norsetto> proppy: if its there since august I wouldn't raise your hopes too much
<\sh> re
<proppy> norsetto: premake: A build script generator for C, C++, and C#, 1201 days in preparation.
<proppy> norsetto: there've been plenty of preparation on it
<norsetto> r\sh
<LaserJock> jdong: you deserve it dude
<proppy> norsetto: let's ask #debian-mentors
<norsetto> proppy: what is tiddlywiki!?
<LaserJock> tiddlywiki is cool
<LaserJock> wiki done mostly in JavaScript
<proppy> norsetto: a self contained wiki
<proppy> norsetto: a wiki in a file
<proppy> norsetto: an html page that can edit itself locally
<proppy> norsetto: you open the html file, you modify some text in it, you save it to the same html file
<proppy> another one ?
<proppy> the best way to figure what it is, is to try it: wget http://www.tiddlywiki.com/empty.html && firefox empty.html
<proppy> norsetto: how did you find about it ?
<proppy> LaserJock: do you use it ?
<norsetto> proppy: was checking to see if you were in #debian-mentors and found out you were in #tiddlywiki
<proppy> norsetto: debian-mentors is on irc.debian.org
<proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/ tiddlywiki in action
<norsetto> proppy: yes, I realised it too late :-)
<LaserJock> proppy: no, but I often look around at wikis
<LaserJock> especially personal ones
<proppy> LaserJock: there is a lot of tiddlywiki derivative, some of them implementing GTD stuff
<LaserJock> neat
<norsetto> proppy: ok, so suppose I want to modify it how do I do it?
<LaserJock> I'm using pmwiki currently
<proppy> put you name in authors
<proppy> click on options
<proppy> put you username in the box
<proppy> then click advancedoptions
<proppy> uncheck 'Hide editing features when viewed over HTTP'
<proppy> and reload the page
<proppy> then you will be able to edit and save on the remote url
<proppy> via webdav
<proppy> if you want to edit it locally
<proppy> i.e: not on http://lp152438.aminche.com/
<proppy> just wget http://lp152438.aminche.com/index.html -O norsetto_vs_tiddlywiki.html && firefox norsetto_vs_tiddlywiki.html
<proppy> and you should be able to edit it locally
<norsetto> proppy: ok, but, what is different form your everyday wiki?
<proppy> norsetto: ?
<norsetto> proppy: ops .....
<proppy> I'm not sure to understand what you mean
<proppy> by everyday wiki ?
<norsetto> proppy: err, can you check that page again?
<norsetto> proppy: phew .... never mind that
<proppy> http://lp152438.aminche.com/ looks fine
<norsetto> proppy: I mean, like the ubuntu wiki?
<LaserJock> it's a lot different
<norsetto> proppy: moinmoin or whatever is called
<LaserJock> moin, mediawiki, etc. require installation and setup
<LaserJock> mediawiki for instance requires PHP and a DB like MySQL
<LaserJock> moin at least doesn't require a DB necessarily but it's still involved
<proppy> norsetto: the wiki engine, is self contained in the html file
<norsetto> LaserJock: ok, so its different from the server side, from a user pov its the same?
<LaserJock> norsetto: it's different in that it's mostly JavaScript
<norsetto> proppy: ok, think I got it
<LaserJock> so it looks different
<proppy> norsetto: you can't grab a copy of a mediawiki or a moin wiki on your local machine easily
<LaserJock> and it's got different features
<proppy> norsetto: you can fork the wiki with cp
<norsetto> LaserJock, proppy: sure, I get it now
<proppy> norsetto: you can thought about it as a decentralized wiki
<proppy> norsetto: just like bzr versus svn
<norsetto> proppy: well, I just checked the source to see whats in there :-)
<proppy> norsetto: you can clone the wiki locally edit it, and then someone can poll you changes back
<proppy> norsetto: are you considering using tiddlywiki for some hot stuff ?
<norsetto> proppy: hot stuff? You should see my home page ;-)
<proppy> the launchpad one ?
<davromaniak> is somerville32 here ?
<norsetto> proppy: no, the real one, red hot ....
<proppy> norsetto: url !
<proppy> oops
<proppy> seems that I've overwrited a package on mentors
<proppy> :(
<norsetto> proppy: I'm not so sure you can survive it ... its only for a mature audience
<bddebian> proppy: It's not biggie :)
<bddebian> Err no
<proppy> norsetto: nothing can beat cuteoverload.com
<proppy> doesn't understand my dput didn't reject me
<bddebian> proppy: I'm just trying to make sure something actually gets uploaded to Debian :-)
<proppy> aaaa
<proppy> it's the same bdd*
<proppy> I've just realised it :)
<bddebian> Yeah, they made me change my name over there ;-P
<proppy> glad to see someone in between
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> bddebian: so, you are bdubuntu there?
<bddebian> norsetto: Hahah, yeah I should have ;-P
<txwikinger> Das every package for ubuntu get the -0ubuntu1 suffix?
<txwikinger> Does
<jdong> it depends on the origin of the packagesl
<jdong> packages directly pulled from Debian without any changes retain their Debian version
<txwikinger> if the package itself is the first time it is packaged as a .deb
<jdong> packages where Ubuntu has made changes get version suffic <debian_version>ubuntu1
<jdong> if there is no previous debian package it's based on, 0ubuntu1 is used
<txwikinger> thank jdong
<txwikinger> I have another question
<txwikinger> what is if a copyright file in the original package is missing
<txwikinger> but there is copyright statement in another file
<jdong> hmm, good question; I'm not sure how to handle that, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can give an answer
<bluekuja> txwikinger, actually every upstream tarball should contain a copyright file
<bluekuja> txwikinger, like COPYING
<txwikinger> well some don't, but have a statement in i.e README
<bluekuja> txwikinger, and anyway every license should reported in debian/copyright
<txwikinger> should I just create one then
<jdong> I've seen some that just say "Licensed under GPL" in some documentation
<jdong> I'm not sure how to handle those cases
<bluekuja> txwikinger, and if differents just list file-->license
<txwikinger> I have create a debian/copyright
<jdong> Ideally, see if you can get upstream to more explicitly license their tarball ;-)
<bluekuja> txwikinger, of course...
<txwikinger> I don't know if there needs one also in the package root
<bluekuja> txwikinger, without that the package cannot be archived
<bluekuja> and accepted
<desertc> Are the MOTU involved with the Update Manager package releases?
<bluekuja> txwikinger, plus every source file should contain license headers
<bluekuja> if not, ping upstream
<bluekuja> ;)
<desertc> I mean to say, involved with deciding what gets pushed out?
<bluekuja> desertc, I would say core-devs
<desertc> TY!
<bluekuja> desertc, that package is in main actually
<jdong> desertc: ultimately that's the archive manager's call
<bluekuja> desertc, get to #ubuntu-devel
<bluekuja> and ask there
<desertc> Already there.
<bluekuja> perfect then :)
<bluekuja> ok, I'm off
<bluekuja> have a good evening
<desertc> Thanks again
<txwikinger> bye bluekuja
<somerville32> davromaniak, Hi
<somerville32> I'm here
<davromaniak> i saw you've proposed youtranslate upgrade in revu
<davromaniak> it's good, but I've declared a bug, and I'm working on it (correcting minor mistakes in the package)
<BlueDevil> hi guys
<BlueDevil> where is the proper place to report that security.ubuntu.com is giving 403 - Forbidden errors?
<jdong> BlueDevil: it's a known issue
<jdong> BlueDevil: the Samba update has been disabled due to a few regressions spotted
<jdong> as a safeguard users are denied access to these broken updates
<jdong> c.f. bug #163042
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163042 in samba "nmbd crashes after routine Dapper upgrade" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163042
<BlueDevil> ok
<BlueDevil> thanks
<somerville32> davromaniak, okay.
<somerville32> davromaniak, What is the bug number?
<davromaniak> Bug #159249
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159249 in youtranslate "[needs-upgrade] youtranslate 1.1.9 => 1.1.10" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159249
<pwnguin> so what's a good runtime debugger for gtk applications?
<pwnguin> preferably something more than gdb
<azeem> pwnguin: nevimer, maybe?
<pwnguin> package not found
<azeem> pwnguin: http://home.gna.org/nemiver/
<azeem> nemiver*
<pwnguin> ah
 * Kmos gots miro 1.0 working with python 2.5 :)
<jdong> :)
<Kmos> jdong :)
<dfiloni> someone can review this package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8 ?
<gnudles> hello
<gnudles> I'd like to know when will you create gimp 2.4.1 package...
<LordKow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/163181 debian maintenance for this package seems to be almost non-existent
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163181 in exaile "[hardy] New upstream release 0.2.11.1" [Undecided,New]
<somerville32> LordKow, I'll update it.
<minghua> gnudles: It's better to contact previous uploaders of wxwidgets2.8 instead of generally asking for review, IMO.
<gnudles> update the gimp package to version 2.4.1
<LordKow> is gimp a universe/multiverse package?
<_MMA_> no
<gnudles> I didn't asked for review..
<somerville32> LordKow, Can you upload an interdiff?
<LordKow> never made an interdiff there a deb helper script for it?
<somerville32> No.
<somerville32> apt-get install interdiff
<somerville32> interdiff the two diff files generated when you build the source package
<minghua> gnudles: Sorry, speaking to wrong person...
<somerville32> There is a flag you can use so you don't have to decompress them by hand.
<minghua> dfiloni: It's better to contact previous uploaders of wxwidgets2.8 instead of generally asking for review, IMO.
<LordKow> oh i see
<gnudles> a bot?
<LordKow> okay i'll run interdiff against the 0.2.11 diff and my 0.2.11.1 diff and attach it
<somerville32> LordKow, Thank you muchly
<gnudles> but gimp is based on GTK, not on wxwidgets....
<gnudles> just update it... please, It's very important package...
<LordKow> what would be the standard way to name a file with the output of interdiff?
<_MMA_> Hey guys. A idea to blow off some steam came out of UDS that Ive been working on. Just a little game server we can run around in.
<_MMA_> The development page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityGameServer and the "Solid info" page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommunityGameServer (both a work in progress) I have 2 games done now.
<_MMA_> If you wanna help us test the Warsow server now hit me up in PM.
<LordKow> i didnt use debdiff, let me do that. i think it will produce the same results but its best to do it debian style whenever possible
<minghua> LordKow: interdiff is preferred over debdiff because debdiff would include all upstream changes as well, which we don't want.
<LordKow> okay well i uploaded a giant selection of things
<LordKow> debdiff, interdiff, orig src, dsc... diff gz
<LordKow> go for it :P
<somerville32> jdong, come for a visit to #xubuntu-devel svp :P
<somerville32> LordKow, ermm...
<LordKow> i wasnt quite sure what to do with the debian directory because apparently the exaile devs try to maintain it too
<somerville32> LordKow, Can you do a -p1 with that interdiff
<somerville32> The interdiff is not useful because it shows both copies of everything because the top directory name is different
<somerville32> the -p1 will ignore that so that we get a proper debdiff
<somerville32> *interdiff
<LordKow> done
<somerville32> LordKow, Did you upload it?
<LordKow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/163181/comments/7
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163181 in exaile "[hardy] New upstream release 0.2.11.1" [Wishlist,New]
<somerville32> Much better :)
<gnudles> I checked, Gimp is a universe package..
<LordKow> Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers
<gnudles> yes
<gnudles> but It was in the list of the universe packages..
<gnudles> so where can I get them?
<LordKow> there was a site that does backports for ubuntu outside of ubuntu
<LordKow> let me find the link, im pretty sure they have gimp 2.4.1
<LordKow> http://www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=1760
<LordKow> i believe they only package 386 debs so you will need to build the source if you are on another arch
<LordKow> i would imagine gimp 2.4.1 will get into hardy. a final release will always have much higher priority over an RC :P
<minghua> gnudles: Gimp is in main, not universe.
<LordKow> even if its after the appropriate freeze
<LordKow> if gutsy has an RC of 2.4.1 it will likely be updated there too
<gnudles> but what about al the other users?
<minghua> Gimp in gutsy won't be updated unless there is an important bug.
<gnudles> ok...
<minghua> ...which exists in RC but fixed in 2.4.1, that is.
<LordKow> gnudles, what makes the final release much more important than the RC's?
<gnudles> but the RC is for 2.4.0
<gnudles> not for 2.4.1
<LordKow> ah, okay well gutsy will likely not see 2.4.1 thats just how ubuntu works (unless there is a major bug fix)
<somerville32> LordKow, Why did you redo rules?
<LordKow> it will likely be in backports
<LordKow> somerville32, i didnt i copied it from upstream. i wasnt quite sure what to do with the debian folder because exaile maintains one
<nenolod> if anyone asks about backports for audacious 1.4, i already did it
<gnudles> I'll check the change log..
<nenolod> so someone could take my source and do an official one :P
<LordKow> look at the orig src and you will see a debian folder
<LordKow> i guess i should have diff'd it to make sure we (ubuntu) didnt put in any ubuntu-specific things to the rules
<somerville32> LordKow, right.
<LordKow> our rules though are almost always verbatim to debian (are they not?)
<somerville32> LordKow, You didn't look?
<somerville32> You cut out a lot of stuff
<gnudles> I think it's quiet important bug fixes
<gnudles> http://developer.gimp.org/NEWS-2.4
<somerville32> We don't use upstream's  debian/ directory
<LordKow> well as i said, make sure you look at the debian folder because im not quite sure what to do when the maintainers of the software also maintain a debian folder
<LordKow> are we supposed to merge with them? or keep our own?
<somerville32> Well, we don't just replace our stuff with their stuff
<gnudles> anyway, thanks..
<LordKow> okay i jacked up the rules, i accept it ;)
<frafu> Hello, could anybody please tell me whether the people that review the packages in REVU, do review them with the available patches applied, or before applying the patches? (I am asking because the package that I am talking about does not have complete copyright and license information)
<LordKow> honestly somerville32, you should just do the upgrade yourself its basically a 1 minute max deal. the most work would be merging upstream rules with ours
<frafu> The patches complete that information.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LordKow> i really think software developers should not include debian in their original source code let debianization happen downstream at the appropriate level
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> frafu: I'm not sure I understand your question but debian/copyright should be populated regardless of patches
<minghua> frafu: Where is this patch about copyright/license information coming from?
<frafu> bddebian: I am talking for example about the missing gfdl license text; the debian folder is ok
<siretart> hey sistpoty, hi emgent!
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<emgent> hey :D
<frafu> I am a maintainer of the package; I added the patch to not raise the version number
<frafu> debian copyright is ok, but the manual has an error, so that it does not show the license; moreover, the file that contains the complete license text is missing before applying the patch
<bddebian> I would say that is generally frowned upon because upstream should be providing a license.  How do we know you aren't just sticking whatever license you want in there? :-)  Of course I am no where near an expert on licensing issues
<frafu> bdebian: I am one of the maintainers; moreover, I am the guy who wrote the manual 8-)
<frafu> I am upstream
<somerville32> bluekuja, Hey. Is there any reason why you changed the versioning for exaile by dropping the debian version?
<somerville32> bluekuja, Okay. never mind.
<somerville32> bddebian, Should I remove debian/ from the orig tarball or just endure the added delta?
<bddebian> somerville32: Sorry, for what ?
<bddebian> frafu: So add the file like it should be :)
<somerville32> bddebian, For a package :P
<somerville32> bddebian, If upstream ships a debian/ directory
<bddebian> somerville32: Get upstream to remove it :-)
<somerville32> bddebian, Yes but for the time being :P
<bddebian> Probably should repack it but I'm never sure
<somerville32> bddebian, Would you upload if I didn't?
<frafu> bddebian: if I add the file, the source tree does not correspond anymore to the tarball we produced for the release. Will that not be a problem? (we forgot to add the file with the gfdl text in the release)
<slangasek> frafu: I would suggest using the pristine tarball from the upstream release and add the licensing info in the diff only
<slangasek> frafu: there are lots of cases where we effectively have to trust the packager's statements about the license, so this isn't really a big deal
<minghua> frafu: Are you talking about the content of the GFDL text here?  In that case I think you don't even need to include that, just saying which files are licensed under GFDL in debian/copyright, and referring to /usr/share/common-licenses/GFDL-1.2 should be enough, IMHO.
<bddebian> frafu: slangasek would certainly know more than me :)
<bddebian> somerville32: I might but I'm a moron ;-)
<drarem> so i have glade and anujta, is that all i need for gtkmm or is there another recommended route to go?  I want to make cross-compatible applications (using the ftp lib stuff) and a nice gui?  I notice resizing controls in glade is a pain or non-existant
<LordKow> bddebian, have some self-esteem :P
<frafu> slangasek: I just tried: debuild -S copies the license from the in the ...diff.gz; so everything should be ok!?
<frafu> thanks to all for your help
<Kmos> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#ChangingOrigTarball
<LaserJock> LordKow: he can't, it's impossible
<sistpoty> Kmos: if upstream changes the orig tarball it's not much of a problem imho, see the rationale given there
<bddebian> LaserJock: You got it :)
<Kmos> sistpoty: this is for somerville32
<sistpoty> then maybe you should add a highligh for him, Kmos ;)
<Kmos> I think the orig tarball even with debian dir inside it, don't need to be changed. just report a bug upstream to remove it in the next release.
<sistpoty> +t
<Kmos> sistpoty :)
<LordKow> as long as our orig tarball matches debians i think we're fine
<LordKow> things get very difficult if our source tarballs are different than debians, especially when it comes to merging.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I did that once
<LaserJock> it's no fun
<sistpoty> hah, and then you do everything correctly, where upstream provides a .zip and even have that get-orig-source thingy and end up with a different tarball from your sponsored package in debian (happened to me *g*)
<sistpoty> (and I wrote that changing the orig tarball section in the first place *g*)
<LaserJock> I forgot to remove the build stamp
<frafu> kmos: you link says that I should not change the tarball (if I get it right; I am rather new to this) ;-)
<LordKow> the latest debian unstable of exaile does not have the debian folder in its orig src
<LaserJock> so it somehow got into my .orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> that's was a real "doh!" moment
<Kmos> frafu: yes, but there are situations that you can change.. read more :)
<LordKow> now, im not sure if the exaile developer added the debian folder to his latest src or if debian is removing it. regardless i think our orig src should not have it.
<LordKow> orig src tarball should have no debianization in it
<Kmos> LordKow: mail the debian maintainer to know about it :) you already reported upstream a bug to remove it from tarball ?
<frafu> LordKow: what do you mean by: "as long as our orig tarball matches debians"
<LordKow> frafu, if our src tarball is different than debians (same version of the package) then its difficult to merge with upstream even if its just releasing a new patch based on the same src
<LordKow> debian does everything against the src tarball, so do we. if the src tarballs are different than debian applied patches may fail against our src, for instance.
<sistpoty> frafu: if a package is both in debian and in ubuntu and we introduce a new upstream version and later debian does the same (and introduces a different orig.tar.gz than we have), it ends up in the manual merge section
<somerville32> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html#s-specifying_versions
<somerville32> I'm a little fuzzy about the XB-*
<Kmos> somerville32: with XB- you can remove debian/pyversions
<somerville32> XS goes in the first paragraph
<somerville32> XB in the second, right?
<Kmos> yes
<somerville32>  So I can ignore dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field 'Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file ?
<Kmos> somerville32: no, you can add it to your debian/control
<Kmos> Package: startupmanager
<Kmos> XB-Python-Version: ${python:Versions}
<Kmos> for example
<Kmos> in the second
<Kmos> XS- goes after Standards-Version: 3.7.2
<somerville32> I have XB- in the second paragraph
<Kmos> XS-Python-Version: current
<somerville32> I have XS-Python-Version: current, >= 2.4
<somerville32> The pyversions had 2.4-
<Kmos> somerville32: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-apps/packages/startupmanager/trunk/debian/control?op=file&rev=0&sc=1
<Kmos> somerville32: it's a package for hardy ?
<LordKow> Kmos, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/163181
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163181 in exaile "[hardy] New upstream release 0.2.11.1" [Wishlist,New]
<LordKow> ignore all my attach's they're bogus
<DaveMorris> can someone please review my small package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest
<somerville32> Kmos, Yes.
<LordKow> with regards to exaile, the question as to whether the debian folder should be included in the orig src tarball is very important. what will be done to it upstream in sid?
<Kmos> LordKow: +Section: universe/devel , why universe/devel ?
<somerville32> Kmos, LordKow said to disregard his work. I'm doing it now.
<Kmos> somerville32: nice :) i'm not a motu, i just try to hlep
<Kmos> help
<somerville32> Kmos, He used the upstream debian directory
<LordKow> yea there are actually a lot more issues with exaile than i originally thought. needs quite a bit of review which should be left to the MOTU team :)
<bddebian> Should be done by the damn Debian maintainers
<LordKow> exactly
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: give me a little bit time, and you'll get a review ;)
<LordKow> i was going to leave it out of ubuntu but the debian maintainer is slacking
<bddebian> Have you poked them?  There is a maintainer and co-maintainer and they did upload in 2007
<Kmos> i've reported a bug to BTS about exaile new upstream version
<LordKow> BTS?
<Kmos> let's see if lazy maintainer do something :)
<DaveMorris> thanks, I'll be here for a bit
<LordKow> Kmos, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451549
<ubotu> Debian bug 451549 in exaile "New upstream version 0.2.11.1" [Wishlist,Open]
<somerville32> Well, I'm going tto finishh tisu p and we can meerge/sync latre. :]
<Kmos> LordKow: exactly
<LordKow> thats you?
<Kmos> yeah
<LordKow> oh cool ;p
<somerville32> LordKow, Is he some demi-guru? :P
<LordKow> i only brought this down to the ubuntu level because i noticed that 0.2.11 was never put into sid so i figured it was not being maintained well at all
 * Kmos not gutu
<Kmos> lol
<Kmos> *guru
<bddebian> LordKow: It's OK, I think we have already jumped Debian versions anyway but poking the maintainer is the "right thing to do"
<LordKow> yea we did with 0.2.11
<LordKow> basically what im saying is we need to keep our version as close to debians non-existent version so that when/if debian updates exaile we can easily merge with it
<LordKow> just 1 more package that can be merged more easily without a lot of work
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: please don't override lintian
<somerville32> LordKow, You obviously don't know bddebian. He demands hard merges.
<LordKow> k :P
<somerville32> Only ones he does.
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: though I haven't test-built it yet, it seems weird to me to ship a shared object in a -dev package
<DaveMorris> sistpoty: I thought you where ment to for a good reason
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: so what's the reason to do so
<DaveMorris> sistpoty: its for unit testings and I didn't see the point of having a libcpptest and a libcpptest-dev
<sistpoty> +?
<DaveMorris> as you'll only usee the -dev version
<Kmos> bug 163208
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163208 in exaile "Please remove debian directory from tarball" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163208
<Kmos> :)
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: so there is no real point in linking to the shared library?
<DaveMorris> only as a programmer  who will need the header files etc
<DaveMorris> its the same as cppunit I believe
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: but a progammer might want to use shared linking against libcpptest? or would he only be interested in static linking?
<sistpoty> (he/she of course to be political correct)
<LordKow> well Kmos, somerville32 is working on the new version :P
<LordKow> i think he is aware of it
<DaveMorris> I personally link using the shared object in my programming
<bddebian> sistpoty: You are already looking at cpptest?
<sistpoty> bddebian: yep
<bddebian> Ah good I'll stop then :-)
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: then it makes sense to build a shared library as well (I guess you know the library packaging guide?)
<DaveMorris> there should be a shared object lib in that package
<sistpoty> bddebian: hehe
<LordKow> whats the best/easiet way to report bugs in the debian system?
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: but if s.o. wants to link against it, it should use the normal library packaging scheme (which means that a shared object should go in a package with the name of the soname)
<bddebian> LordKow: Build a new package, upload to mentors and ping the maintainer pointing them at the new package :_)
<DaveMorris> since there  is no point  having it as a seperate package IMO since it'll only ever be used by people using the -dev package
<bddebian> Of course that did work for me with valknut or pybliographer...
<LordKow> thnx
<bddebian> Err did NOT work for me :)
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: let me think about this for a few minutes (while I'm out for a smoke...)
<bddebian> Gah WTF was I thinking starting a build on an 8Mb source package when I want to go home :(
<LordKow> okay well if debian does exaile upstream correctly according to their specs, then debian folder shall not be in the src tarball :)
<somerville32> bddebian, Just walk away :P
<bddebian> heh
<jdong> somerville32: NEVER what if it FTBFS'es as soon as you leave??
<somerville32> jdong, Than you find out when you come back :]
<bddebian> I didn't screen and I'm ssh'd to home so I can't walk away :(
<DaveMorris> start it in a screen and reconnect when you get home
<LordKow> bddebian, now if you're really unlucky the build will fail at the end :P
<LordKow> use ccache? heheh
<jdong> LordKow: heh idn, I wouldn't trust a build done in ccache for verification purposes
<jdong> I recall from Gentoo days there were some pretty weird effects with ccache at times
<LordKow> true
<LordKow> yea jdong, i dont use ccache for that reason and the fact that i dont have enough disk space
<jdong> though, yeah, it's the most irritating thing ever when a build fails at one of the last steps :D
<LordKow> the problem with Gentoo is its so user specific that its hard to distinguish true bugs from jacked up systems
<jdong> LordKow: agreed -- trying to isolate user error from a bug report is the hardest thing ever
<jdong> I recall bugs being posted where the user has a 4-line CFLAGS variable
<LordKow> LOL
<jdong> lol no joke :)
<bddebian> LordKow: Nah it died on build-deps so I got lucky :-)
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: I guess what you want to do is to ship the shared object as "private" under /usr/lib/<packagename> in the -dev package. that way only people having the -dev package can link against it and you don't need to care about library packaging
<LaserJock> jdong: I had one of those ;-)
<LaserJock> at least 3 lines
<LordKow> a mile long USE= flags are never good either
<DaveMorris> sistpoty: how do you do that?  I've not heard of it beforre
<jdong> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74072
<jdong> *THAT* is the one
<ubotu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 74072 in Unspecified "ld errors" [Trivial,Resolved: wontfix]
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: move it around in debian/rules, or change the upstream make files (and probably adjust whatever needs adjusted, e.g. a *.pc file)
<bddebian> usually configure --libdir will do it or you may need -rpath
<sistpoty> or that ;)
<LaserJock> jdong: that's quite funny
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm shocked nothing else broke for him :)
<DaveMorris> so instead of installing it to /usr/lib install it to /usr/lib/cpptest/
<LordKow> hahaha those CFLAGS are ridiculous
 * DaveMorris looks at how to do that in cdbs
<LordKow> i stick with -march=k8 -O2 -pipe
<sistpoty> jdong: lol, I've always thought that gentoo encourages to use -f-omg-superfast *g*
<jdong> LordKow: likewise, the most I optimize is a -march close to my arch, -O2, -pipe, and sometimes -fomit-frame-pointer
<LordKow> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74072#c2 <-- LOL
<jdong> and I don't even like applying -fomit-frame-pointer across the system
<ubotu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 74072 in Unspecified "ld errors" [Trivial,Resolved: wontfix]
<slangasek> (.oO -O99 -pipe -hash -smoke-it)
<sistpoty> haha
<jdong> slangasek: sadly I have seen -O99 suggested on Gentoo Forums as future proofing....
<jdong> and people do rebuild all the packages on their system everytime GCC/glibc gets a minor version bump
<jdong> I cringe to think about the carbon footprint of Gentoo :D
<sistpoty> hm... I could abuse university compution power, but I'm too lazy :D
<LordKow> 4th largest supercomputer in the US about a block from me... >:)
<LordKow> that would help out ubuntu's build queue quite a bit
<somerville32> Slowest computer in the world, 30cm from my feet
<RainCT> hi
<bddebian> Later gang
<sistpoty> cya bddebian
<LordKow> later bddebs
<RainCT> are PNG's on /usr/share/pixmaps required to be 48x48 or are 32x32 also ok?
<RainCT> /me would prefer not to use uuencode
<sistpoty> LordKow: nothing of that scale around here, but if it were I'd set up a heat pipe directly to my office (it's freaking cold in there in winter time)
<LordKow> hm time to lurk the bug reports looking for a simple bug to fix
<jdong> bug 163185   <-- is hell freezing over yet?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163185 in ubuntu "ubuntu freezes completely (all graphics and mouse) when executing shell ascii forkbomb" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163185
<LordKow> heh sistpoty you need my dual opteron desktop. one of the first revisions and they run like a furnace
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> man, that sounds good
<LaserJock> I don't want to  have to pay for the electricity bill thoug
<LaserJock> +h
<jdong> LOL @ reproducing steps
<jdong> (1) open shell (2) type in forkbomb (3) computer freezes
<sistpoty> we need to shutdown everything unused over christmas, due to 1) electricity bill but much more due to 2) heating costs *g*
<Fujitsu> jdong: Blink.
<Fujitsu> That has to go on one of the top 10 stupid bug lists.
<LordKow> jdong, that actually does bring up a good point. should ubuntu be setting the max process limit?
<jdong> LordKow: IMO no... it should make it easy, however, for users to set one via the User and Groups applet
<Fujitsu> jdong: I like your response: `One should avoid typing in forkbombs into the terminal if one does not want to forkbomb his computer.'
<sistpoty> LordKow: it should and it does (as far as i can tell right now)
<jdong> Fujitsu: hehe I tried to disguise a bit of humor in there :D
<LordKow> i might as well link that bug report to every linux distribution known to man :P
<jdong> sistpoty: does it? I don't see it on Gutsy at least
<sistpoty> mom.
<jdong> that was the first vulnerability I found on my shared shell setup :)
<sistpoty> !pastebin | sistpoty
<LordKow> sistpoty, i dont think it does
<keescook> we do set a max process limit.
<jdong> Fujitsu: next we'll get "All files are deleted when executing rm -rf command" and an argument why Ubuntu should have an undo/cancel command for that :D
<keescook> it's based on available physical memory (this is the default for modern kernels)
<LordKow> keescook, where?
<keescook> LordKow: ulimit -u
<jdong> keescook: it's not enough to stop a forkbomb, is it?
<sistpoty> that's what I get: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44816/
<jdong> 8180
<LordKow> ah okay, its dynamic
<keescook> jdong: since a forkbomb won't every stop, no.  ;)
<LordKow> or not
<sistpoty> (though my .zshrc my interfere *g*)
<slangasek> jdong: it may not be enough to prevent the fork bomb from spinning in an infinite loop trying and failing to fork more processes
<slangasek> but it will limit the total number of processes forked
<jdong> slangasek: right; I doubt a system with 5000+ spinning processes will be all that interactive!
<keescook> it's hard to protect someone from themself.  ;)
<LordKow> of course if we took this far we could create some sort of shell wrapper script that parses the command to check for this sort of thing before initiating the command
<keescook> in non-desktop shared environments, admins will usually set nproc much lower
<keescook> LordKow: sure, but then the griefer would just adjust the syntax a little.
<LordKow> "Running command <command> may lock your system, continue?"
<Fujitsu> Ew.
<jdong> LordKow: You are executing a command. Cancel or Allow? :)
<jdong> The command "oowriter" may cause your system to become slow or unstable. Cancel or Allow?
 * jdong ducks
<somerville32> lol
<sistpoty> haha
<LaserJock> Cancel! Cancel!
<Fujitsu> s/may/will/
<LordKow> it would check the syntax and thats all
<keescook> bash: function call loop detected, aborting.
<slangasek> jdong: well, you can nice the users who are inclined to do stupid things with their shells, and then it'll be nice and interactive for everyone else. ;)
<jdong> aren't there people who have tried to write heuristic forkbomb detectors/preventers for Linux/OpenBSD?
<jdong> I recall seeing a kernel patch relating to that before
<LordKow> bug 163188
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163188 in yelp "spelling and information issues " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163188
<LordKow> does anyone know where exactly these typos are?
<LordKow> oh i found it
<RainCT> whree should html documentation be installed?
<RainCT> *where
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: any reason to ship an older version of cppunit than available on sourceforge?
<sistpoty> RainCT: /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/html
<RainCT> ok, thanks sistpoty
<DaveMorris> my package is cpptest, not cppunit
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: sorry, of course cpptest
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: hm
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: sorry, been clicking on the wrong links
<DaveMorris> sistpoty: I'vee just up loaded a revised version with you suggestions
<DaveMorris> linitan warrns about pointless calls to ldconfig but I have no idea how to stop them
<RainCT> do *.install files accept regex?
<slangasek> RainCT: I believe they only accept globs
<RainCT> globs?
<slangasek> RainCT: aka, "*"
<RainCT> ah ok
<jdong> globs: Regex Home Basic Edition :)
<RainCT> so if I want to install everything in folder "data" that doesn't start with "html*", I've to copy everything and then remove the html* files?
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: where can I actually download cpptest? (debian/copyright refers to the cppunit sf page, and I can't find a link there)
<DaveMorris> sistpoty: you missed that I linked to the cppunit page when it sould of been cpptest
<DaveMorris> hence why you though I had an old version
<DaveMorris> let me fix it
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: ah, ok.
<DaveMorris> http://cpptest.sourceforge.net/ anyway
<DaveMorris> I hate it when I make stupid mistakes like that
<sistpoty> so do I, and I tend to make lot's of these
<DaveMorris> hence the revu process I guess :)
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: btw.: the patch you're adding via debian/patches about the .pc file: that's a new file rather than a change to an old one, right?
<DaveMorris> yeah new one
<DaveMorris> I was told before thats the better way to do it
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: I'd just put it under debian and include it in the .install rule, but both have its benefits (and it's not wrong to do it either way)
<LordKow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/multipath-tools/+bug/163076 is this something i can do or is there some automated system for this?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163076 in multipath-tools "New upstream version available" [Undecided,New]
<LordKow> basically just needs an upstream merge
<LordKow> i guess i should have checked if this is even a universe package :P
<LordKow> nope, k nvmnd
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: if I'm not mistaken the ldconfig call is generated from dh_makeshlibs (you could of course export DH_VERBOSE=1 in debian rules to get the details from the build (log).) However I'm not sure how to make cdbs not call dh_makeshlibs.
<DaveMorris> am I allowed to leave those calls there?
<DaveMorris> dh_makeeshlibs does do it as I learn't that earlier
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: well, these are unneeded... if this is the only issue, I'd say why not (since a regular user won't install the -dev package and thus won't have delays in installing/upgrading)(
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: of course if you want to dig, you could try to see if dh_makeshlibs can be tweaked into not adding that call for a known shared object (by looking at the man page first, and in doubt at the code)
<norsetto> sistpoty: there is a flag you can pass in cdbs to avoid dh_makeshlibs inserting a ldconfig call in the maintainers script. Is that usefull?
<sistpoty> norsetto: sure, I guess DaveMorris would be interested ;)
<slangasek> er, why are you having to override dh_makeshlibs then?
<sistpoty> slangasek: building a shared object in /usr/share/<packagename>/
<slangasek> ...
<slangasek> that's an FHS violation
<sistpoty> slangasek: where would these go then?
<slangasek> I don't know, what is it?
<slangasek> binary objects don't belong under /usr/share, though, because /usr/share is for arch-independent data
<slangasek> if you're ending up with auto-generated shlibs for the file, that probably indicates the object has an SONAME
<DaveMorris> its going into /usr/lib/<package namee>/
<sistpoty> slangasek: testing framework for c++ (cpptest)
<norsetto> sistpoty, davemorris: its DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_<package> -n
<slangasek> which means it's either a library and belongs in /usr/lib, or it's not a library, should be stowed under /usr/lib/<package name>/, and shouldn't have an soname
<sistpoty> slangasek: yes it does, but it wouldn't be of much use for anyone since it's a testing framework (you wouldn't want to link a binary against it, unless you're running a test suite and have the -dev package installed anyways)
<norsetto> g'night all
<slangasek> sistpoty: then why does it have an soname?
<sistpoty> slangasek: that's of course a good question... which I guess goes along the line of why does a soname not change if the compatibility changes *g*
<RainCT> Does anyone know why    install/lighyears:: rm -f debian/lightyears/usr/share/games/lightyears/data/html*    isn't removing the files that start with "html*" that were copied there because of an *.install file?
<DaveMorris> for the logs it's actually DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_<pkgname> := -n
<sistpoty> slangasek: of course if you believe that if upstream provides a soname it should get library packaging style, (or otherwise if it's shipped as /usr/lib/<packagename> packaging should remove the soname), I'll be happy to know about as I'd really like to know the best practice there
<slangasek> sistpoty: well, my point is that dh_makeshlibs is a very mature tool which always DTRT for me, so if you're seeing it do something unexpected, question the upstream library first
<slangasek> rather than trying to force it to not be invoked for a given packgae
<sistpoty> slangasek: sure, the soname is there (and upstream seems to have gotten it right). however the lib doesn't seem to make much use to link a regular binary against, so what to do then?
<RainCT> good night
<slangasek> sistpoty: it exists for the purpose of linking against, doesn't it?
<slangasek> if so, why make it harder to link things against it by moving it out of /usr/lib?
<sistpoty> slangasek: hm... good point, and I guess that's where I wouldn't know how to chose a preference between the counter-argument (need to have install the -dev package to even want to link against the shared object) and this one
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: so it looks like you should go for library packaging style after all. Sorry for the misinformation
<slangasek> but you *always* have to install the -dev package to link against shared objects :)
<DaveMorris> using pkg-config means it's easy to find anyway
<slangasek> because -dev is the package that provides the .so file
<slangasek> (symlink)
<DaveMorris> slangasek: but no-one will be running a program which is linked against the so unless they are building it
<DaveMorris> so seems pointtless IMO to have 2 packages
<sistpoty> slangasek: sorry, logic wrong way round... you'd not want to have some binary linked against the shared object, unless you'd have the -dev package installed anyways.
<sistpoty> s/some binary/any binary/
<sistpoty> phew... logic is hard at that late time *g*
<DaveMorris> only 23:30 here :)
<sistpoty> one hour later here
<slangasek> sistpoty: oh, I see
<DaveMorris> well it's up there all working as 1 packagee, you guys do this more than me.  What should I do with it?
<slangasek> sistpoty: then perhaps it shouldn't have a separate lib package
<slangasek> DaveMorris: ah, you reached this conclusion sooner than I ;)
<sistpoty> slangasek: it doesn't *g* (it's DaveMorris package btw)
<DaveMorris> the way I see it, it's only ever gonna get used by programmers using the testing framework
<sistpoty> slangasek: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest (for the details ;)
<DaveMorris> so have 1 package, install the sso to /usr/lib/<pkgname> and poink pkconfig.pc file to i
<slangasek> DaveMorris: I would still argue for installing the so in /usr/lib, but I can't convincingly argue that it's a bug if you don't
<DaveMorris> tbh  it'll only affect a handfull of users
<DaveMorris> btw  has it been suggested to have an rss feed for http://revu.tauware.de/index.py and prehaps for each package (for people to follow certain packages)
<DaveMorris> slangasek: sistpoty will you advocate the package then if its fine?
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: once its fine I will, but I didn't have a total look yet ;)
<DaveMorris> sorry I though you had
<jaredthane> Hey, guys I was looking at this page: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/93603
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93603 in php5 "RFE: Add more php5 extensions (like php5-gmp)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jaredthane> and I want to help out by creating a package how do I do it?
<DaveMorris> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<slangasek> I confess to have not yet looked at the package, DaveMorris, and don't really have the time for it at the moment
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: oh, btw.: sure the rss feed was requested, but I'm not convinced about rss feeds myself (and would have to search how to get it implemented), so I'm rather not getting this done myself... of course contributions are very welcome ;)
<DaveMorris> and see if someone in here has time to help you
<slangasek> I could look later this evening, but that's several hours away here :)
<DaveMorris> slangasek: np
<DaveMorris> jaredthane: I'd help but I'm new as well so would prob be more of a hindarncee
<jaredthane> DaveMorris: Thanks.
<jaredthane> Would anyone mentor me particularly regarding creating packages perhaps with the bug I cited above?
<slangasek> jaredthane: 1) forward the bug report to the Debian php5 maintainers; 2) make them do all the work? :)
<Fujitsu> Can anybody make any kind of sense of this? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+bugs?field.component=1&field.component=4&field.component=2&field.component=3
<Fujitsu> Note how each task is shown many times.
<Fujitsu> Except for some that aren't.
<jdong> ok, that forkbomb bug is seriously frustrating me *unsubscribes*
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<jaredthane> slangasek: Good idea, but besides, but I'd still like to learn how to make a package myself...
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-17
<slangasek> jaredthane: ok.  for that particular request, it is best to package it as part of the existing php5 package, so the typical "intro to packaging" guides aren't going to help you there - you would need to dig into the php5 package specifically and understand how it's put together
<jaredthane> slangasek: okay, do any simple, useful examples come to mind?
<slangasek> not to me, sorry
<slangasek> everything I use is already packaged :)
<slangasek> jaredthane: for places to help out with Ubuntu that don't involve creating new packages from scratch, there's https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
 * Fujitsu thinks the world must be coming to an end.
<Fujitsu> The RM helping in #-motu...
<jaredthane> slangasek: thanks
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
<LaserJock> :-)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: that's why he got a +1 from me when going for motu after a few hours ;)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Heh, yes.
<slangasek> Fujitsu: if it's upsetting your world view that much, I can go away again ;)
<Fujitsu> Please don't.
<DaveMorris> RM?
<sistpoty> release manager
<LaserJock> any vim people around?
 * Fujitsu is a vimmer.
<DaveMorris> LaserJock: just ask ;)
<Fujitsu> !ask | LaserJock
<ubotu> LaserJock: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<LaserJock> I'm trying to fix a bug involving vim-latexsuite
<Fujitsu> :P
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<LaserJock> yeah yeah yeah
<Fujitsu> I haven't used -latexsuite in a while.
<LaserJock> vim can't find the files
<LaserJock> it installs to /usr/share/vim/addons/
<LaserJock> but that's not in vim's path
<LaserJock>  /var/lib/addons/ is
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if there's some policy that would help me decide what to do
<LaserJock> I would think that /usr/share/ would be the FHS place to put it
<Fujitsu> That's where it should go.
<slangasek> LaserJock: AIUI, there's some kind of vim policy (at least in Debian) that newly-installed add-ons shouldn't be enabled by default, to not trigger disgruntlement of other users?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> apparently it used to work
<LaserJock> which has disgruntled many vim+TeX users
<LaserJock> now that it doesn
<Fujitsu> It did previously work, yes...
<Fujitsu> slangasek: It doesn't do anything too evil.
<LaserJock> now, there is the vim-addon-manager package
<LaserJock> which allows you to turn things off and on
<LaserJock> I can see that policy for vim-scripts because people will pick and choose
<LaserJock> but vim-latexsuite only does one thing
<LaserJock> but I see what you're saying about multiple users and turning on systemwide
<LaserJock> ok, I got it figured out, phew
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: would this be an "Invalid" bug then?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What is the problem?
<LaserJock> that latexsuite is not enabled by default
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> which is now the vim policy
<Fujitsu> Probably Invalid.
<sistpoty> DaveMorris: debian/copyright could be a bit more verbose about upstream copyright (copy one of the source files copyright notice verbatim there)
<joejaxx> anyone getting HTTP 403 on securitu.u.c?
<joejaxx> security.ubuntu.com*
<keescook> joejaxx: yup, expected, should be cleared up shortly.
<joejaxx> ok
<crimsun> joejaxx: 163042.
<joejaxx> ok
<LordKow> um which package provides merge-buildpackage?
<crimsun> it's part of MoM.  No Freely-available source package currently provides it.
<LordKow> ah i see, <3 MoM
<crimsun> well, unless you count grab-merge.sh
<crimsun> grab-merge.sh is available at http://merges.ubuntu.com
<pwnguin> autoreconf -i
<pwnguin> configure.ac:7: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_ENABLE_SHARED
<pwnguin> ideas?
<crimsun> probably autotoolage scew.
<crimsun> err, skew, but screw, too.
<sistpoty> pwnguin: do you have libtool installed?
<crimsun> and which version of automake is installed?
<pwnguin> apparently not
<sistpoty> hi crimsun btw ;)
<pwnguin> sistpoty: that's the trick
<crimsun> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> you're welcome... /me is fighting automake at work as well *g*
<pwnguin> well, i thought apt-get build-dep would get the build deps
<crimsun> pwnguin: autotoolising stuff generally requires the libtool&automake&autoconf stack
<sistpoty> (which means that I'm far from having tamed automake yet *g*)
<pwnguin> theres already a package, but i thought i'd build from svn
<LordKow> ugh whats the best way to do the merge process with pbuilder?
<pwnguin> configure: error: Your intltool is too old.  You need intltool 0.35.0 or later.
<LordKow> i'd rather not be installing a ton of build-depends on my main system :P
<minghua> LordKow: pbuilder has a "login" command.
<LordKow> yea but how do i transfer files to the pbuilder environment from outside?
<pwnguin> maybe i'll just write the patch from the package source and let upstream handle the merge =/
<minghua> LordKow: Just copy them over?  The chroot is under /var/cache/pbuilder/build/.
<LordKow> ah duh i could have just looked at the mount output from outside of the env to figure that out, thnx
<jdong> LordKow: if you do this often it's a good idea to set up a --bindmount so that you can always share stuff from your outside world :)
<crimsun> uh oh, jdong applied for -dev
<LordKow> yea going through the pbuilder man right now
<crimsun> time for revenge on the backports!!one
 * Hobbsee waves
<sistpoty> ha, luckily I needn't ask questions any longer, otherwise my first question would've been: "jdong: but you're on crack!" ;)
<jdong> crimsun: lol :)
<zul> evening
<minghua> jdong: I hope you mean --bindmounts.
<jdong> minghua: yeah, those thingies :)
<crimsun> jdong's +1 will likely be my last vote as an MC member, heh
<sistpoty> so crimsun makes me feel guilty again for starting a wave of retirings :(
 * jdong hugs crimsun 
<crimsun> sistpoty: mine was scheduled way back in July
<sistpoty> crimsun: ha, I've been thinking about it earlier, just didn't write a mail yet :P
<crimsun> yeah, Daniel and I are going to wrap up, and then I'll be sending off the e-mail.
<crimsun> jdong: remember: use this power for good
<sistpoty> it's sad to see an experienced member go from -council
<jdong> crimsun: you mean "with great power comes great responsibility"? :)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: that was my thought, yes.
<Hobbsee> (the crack one(
<Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<sistpoty> haha
<crimsun> sistpoty: well, it has been quite something for the first round.  Looking forward to better things from the next MC.  Turnover can be healthy.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: surely you cant leave.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: sure, I would just need to find another job
<sistpoty> crimsun: sure it can, and I really hope for it (and did so when resigning..) nonetheless it does make me sad
<Hobbsee> crimsun: more alsa?
<crimsun> haha
<tarzeau> there's no webfrontend for requestsync ?
<sistpoty> tarzeau: sure, LP and enter your wish by hand ;)
<tarzeau> sistpoty: i thought of a input field like a command line for it
<LordKow> um do i really need to use the merge-buildpackage / merge-genpackage script... it looks like i should just be able to build the package like I would any other
<sistpoty> tarzeau: no, it's the other way round: requestsync is the frontend for filing a bug (with a specific title and content) on launchpad
<tarzeau> sistpoty: yes and i wanted to just have a frontend for requestsync
<tarzeau> since installing it on debian sid is like horribly not possible
<Hobbsee> LordKow: have a look at the scripts.  it has a particular option on it
<crimsun> LordKow: no, you don't.  e.g., I just edit shell command history and proceed.
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: uh....why?
<tarzeau> ubuntu-dev-tools depends on python-launchpad-bugs (>= 0.2.14); however:
 * Hobbsee notes that with frontends, more idiots will file them, and then we'll all have to close them.
<sistpoty> tarzeau: having not used it ever, I go with "please sync <packagename> (<version>) from unstable ubuntu override ok" and adhere to the policies in the rest of the bug. worked for me in the past ;()
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: it's a script.  just nuke it from the package.
<tarzeau> Hobbsee: ok i try that
<LordKow> exec dpkg-buildpackage -S -v0.2.3-2ubuntu1 "$@" <-- thats all merge-buildpackage does... its specific for each package but its 1 command :P
<Hobbsee> LordKow: yes, and you need to use -v0.2.3-2ubuntu1 in it
<sistpoty> and once my manual sync request will no longer get processed, I'll either make a rebellion or will shut up forever (probably the second *g*)
<Hobbsee> (does special things with the source changes.
<crimsun> meaning, preserving (displaying) the relevant upstream changelog entries is a matter of policy.
<tarzeau> i read the part about requestsync at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<tarzeau> what's target release? hardy for example?
<Hobbsee> the development release.  so hardy, yes.
<LordKow> crimsun, do you know if aclock.app is in the process of being merged or not? its a 5 second thing with the control file
<Hobbsee> make sure you use -s, it's the sponsorship section
<tarzeau> Hobbsee: that script fails for some reason, and i've got no clue of python
<Hobbsee> ....right.
<Hobbsee> no clue of debugging either, it appears.  "fails for some reason", no reason given.  *sigh*.
<crimsun> LordKow: generally, check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/$source_package_name/
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: i'm not psychic, sorry.
<tarzeau> Traceback (most recent call last): File "./requestsync", line 119, in ?
<LordKow> "There are currently no open bugs." guess not, thanks
<crimsun> LordKow: if you don't see a bug report requesting a merge/sync, then generally, no, it's not in the process.
<tarzeau>     debiancomponent = debian_component(srcpkg)
<tarzeau>   File "./requestsync", line 75, in debian_component
<tarzeau>     raw_comp = out.split('|')[2].split('/')
<tarzeau> IndexError: list index out of range
<Hobbsee> oh, requestsync is possibly broken now, with the rmadison change, too
<LordKow> crimsun, well then i shall start the process
<crimsun> LordKow: excellent.
<Hobbsee> ah, no, it's not.  the old behaviour still works.
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: weird.
<tarzeau> what about a bot that takes syncrequests right in here? ;)
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: because if you make it like that, people think it's acceptable to mass file sync requests.
<Hobbsee> and tend to not check the changes first.
<Hobbsee> requestsync is not to be abused.
<tarzeau> i see
<Hobbsee> and because they're signed.
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: if you make it easy, even like having that shell sript in there, people seem to use logic like "well, i fthere's a new version in debian, who cares about any ubuntu changes, lets just drop them all"
<tarzeau> i've wanted to request two new packages
<tarzeau> and this syncing stuff is all done fully manually?
<Hobbsee> new pacakges are done automatically
<Hobbsee> stuff that has ubuntu changes getting synced is manual
<tarzeau> i see
<tarzeau> not even half-automatic?
<Hobbsee> obviously.  it needs checking
<Hobbsee> well, they have a script that then goes and syncs
<Hobbsee> but someone has to check if teh changes are still required, etc
<tarzeau> i see
<Hobbsee> which is why making this stuff easy to run is suboptimal - because people dont do the work required to check if stuff is needed, first.
<LordKow> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aclock.app/+bug/163165 why is this invalid?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163165 in aclock.app "Please sync aclock.app 0.2.3-2  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Invalid]
<crimsun> 16 Nov 07 18:54   Marco Rodrigues  aclock.app: status  New  Invalid
<LordKow> oh its been synched sweet
<crimsun> yep. :)
<LordKow> still not an "invalid" report though :P
<crimsun> well, it is
<LordKow> if it has been synched why is it still showing on MOM?
<crimsun> MoM is not definitive
<minghua> That bug got the version number wrong.  Is it verbatim output from requestsync?
<crimsun> I believe it's actually correct.
<crimsun> according to the hardy-changes list, that is.
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-November/001713.html
<crimsun> so the times seem to link up correctly
<Hobbsee> mom is not always updated
<crimsun> so at the time the sync was requested, the synced source had not been published via the hourly run
<minghua> I see.
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LordKow> hm weird dependency problems with balsa and an up-to-date pbuilder env
<LordKow> cant even build the version in the repos
<jdong> LordKow: have you set up your pbuilder to use universe?
<LordKow> you know... i may not have. i did at one point but i think i redid the pbuilder env
<crimsun> it's not enabled by default, so if you don't remember, you most probably didn't.
<LordKow> well thats the thing. i remember doing it the FIRST time but not after i redid pbuilder ;)
<LordKow> this build should be more successful :p
<jdong> siretart: wrt bug #159085, I'm assuming the new version is ABI/API compatible with all the gutsy reverse-deps?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159085 in gutsy-backports "please backport xine-lib_1.1.8-2ubuntu2 from hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159085
<RAOF> jdong: That's surely not happening.  A good portion of Universe rdepends on xine-lib :)
<jdong> RAOF: well I don't know enough about the Xine release cycle to understand what a 0.0.1 bump constitutes...
<jdong> and since siretart filed the report, I am assuming he knows what he's doing :D
<RAOF> jdong: Oh, I thought we had 1.6 in gutsy.  Ah, whoops.  Yeah :)
<jdong> wow, this apbs thing takes bloody forever to build
 * jdong considers enlisting his macbook to build too :D
 * RAOF suddenly realises why he's getting an obsolete nouveau package.  s/gutsy/hardy/!
<jdong> TheMuso: you have any idea what's going on in bug 158706?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158706 in gnunet-gtk "gnunet-gtk crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158706
<RAOF> Is anyone actually doing the deluge-torrent merge/sync?  Is bug #139518 having anything done to it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139518 in deluge-torrent "Please sync deluge-torrent 0.5.6.2-1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139518
<crimsun> No one appears to have committed to it, RAOF.
<crimsun> i.e., it's all yours
 * RAOF updates the bug status.
<LordKow> bug 163261
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163261 in balsa "New upstream release 2.3.20" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163261
<crimsun> LordKow: careful.  Your _source.changes doesn't adhere to Ubuntu policy regarding including all debian/changelog entries between the most recent merged Debian source package and the current one.
<LordKow> um, which ones are missing?
<crimsun> 2.3.19-1 and 2.3.20-1
<crimsun> note that I'm referring to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/balsa/+bug/163261/comments/1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163261 in balsa "New upstream release 2.3.20" [Undecided,New]
<crimsun> s/edge\.// if you aren't a member of the LP beta testing team
<LordKow> oh i forgot -v
<crimsun> (correct
<LordKow> they're there its just a screwd up changes file, let me rebuild
<jdong> crimsun: does backport bug #163033 look sane to you?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163033 in gutsy-backports "alsa-driver-1.0.15 and assorted newly minted alsa goodies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163033
<crimsun> jdong: not particularly
<LordKow> do i need to rebuild the package or can i just comment and say "the changelog is complete, i just forgot -v<last ver> in the changes"?
<jdong> crimsun: that was my gut feeling. Can you briefly comment on the bug report why it's not a good idea?
<LordKow> <-- lazy :p
<crimsun> jdong: namely, what does symptoms does the reporter experience [that are fixed in 1.0.15 final] that the linux-backports-modules-$(uname -r) package in gutsy doesn't?
<crimsun> jdong: s/does//
<crimsun> $1, that is
<jdong> crimsun: ah, so any missing alsa patches can be done via linux-backports-modules?
<crimsun> jdong: correct, and Tim's/Ben's slated to upload the latest shortly, which contains 1.0.15 final plus a dmic fix for certain Dells
<jdong> crimsun: thanks for the info!
<crimsun> np
<crimsun> [not to mention it's of no real benefit to pull in the "changes" to alsa-base and linux-sound-base, which is really what backporting would achieve in light of the l-b-m updates]
<jdong> agreed
<jdong> who tends to libotr2?
<crimsun> no one.  It's a direct sync from Debian.
<crimsun> or, technically, "MOTU" cares for it.
<jdong> there's a backport request for hardy->gutsy on libotr and it has reverse-deps with gaim, kopete, and others and I wasn't sure of the compatibility
<LordKow> crimsun, does my new changes make ubuntu policy happy? see last comment :)
<jdong> so, I guess, my question is if anyone here is familiar with libotr? :)
<crimsun> wow, from 3.0.0 (+cvs) to 3.1.0?  ...
<crimsun> LordKow: looking now.
<jdong> crimsun: the increment looks uneasy, and the person who filed the report is a fresh account so I'm inclined to just flat-out reject it unless someone familiar with otr can tell me this is safe.
<crimsun> hehe
<crimsun> well, when you're a MOTU, you get to test it, too!  ;)
<LordKow> yes as a MOTU you are a massive tool
<jdong> :D
<jdong>  76 files changed, 6133 insertions(+), 5567 deletions(-)
<jdong> gee.... not invasive at all
<crimsun> well, it may not be on the magnitude of, say, azureus or xserver-xgl...
<RAOF> xgl *may* be going away for hardy.
<RAOF> As drivers get good enough to make it more of a hinderance than a help.
<crimsun> that would be excellent.
<LordKow> with regard to bug 163261, do i need to attach the new dsc, orig src and diff? they are the same just re-signed
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163261 in balsa "New upstream release 2.3.20" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163261
<LordKow> (same as what is attached that is)
<jdong> RAOF: let's hope that happens :)
<crimsun> LordKow: you were able to drop the *_DISABLE_DEPRECATED comments in {libbalsa,libinit_balsa,src}/Makefile.* ?
<crimsun> LordKow: (you wouldn't need to reupload a new source package.  My comment regarding debuild -v is largely informative.)
<LordKow> was i able? MOM was. those were dropped upstream i believe
<crimsun> if they are legitimately dropped, please note that in debian/changelog
<crimsun> (bddebian was the latest to touch balsa and noted as much in the changelog)
<bddebian> What'd I do wrong now?
<crimsun> bddebian: hi.  Nothing wrong.
<bddebian> :-) Hi crimsun
<LordKow> those DISABLE_DEPRECATED comments are there
<LordKow> i guess i dont quite understand what you are getting at.
<crimsun> LordKow: ok.  Perhaps I'm being obtuse regarding the procedure.
<jdong> wow pbuilder-satisfy-depends-dummy is REALLY slick!
<LordKow> well, i'd prefer to get the procedure 100% correct so ... what are you getting at? :P
<crimsun> LordKow: in the Ubuntu-specific changes listed in debian/changelog [in gutsy's balsa source package], note the top two (most recent) Ubuntu entries.
<crimsun> LordKow: because your merged source package [for hardy] will be a new upstream balsa version, you need to ensure that all Ubuntu-specific changes noted in the most recent source package are still relevant
<crimsun> LordKow: regardless if they are relevant, you need to note in the merged source package that either they have been dropped (and state a rationale) or they have been retained
 * tonyyarusso googles
<LordKow> so what you are saying is... if i keep those comments in the makefiles (noted in 2.3.17-1ubuntu2 changes) i still need to report that I'm keeping the makefile comments, or remove them and mention that they were completely removed?
<Hobbsee> LordKow: correct
<LordKow> i thought the changelog was for changes only. im not changing anything by leaving those comments there am i?
<Hobbsee> LordKow: so that when you do something with it next release, you dont have to read 10 billion changelog entries, and wonder what you did, and why you did them, and if they're still relevant.
<LordKow> okay i'll go ahead and drop the comments and modify the changelog to mention those removals
<jdong> yay gutsy-backports is all triaged
 * jdong cringes at the look of feisty-backports
 * Hobbsee goes to dump more crack in there, then.
<LordKow> er, what im saying is i'll keep the comments in the files :)
<LordKow> sorry confusing myself
<LordKow> "   * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:     - Keep our maintainers in debian/control and debian/control.in     - Retain *_DISABLE_DEPRECATED comments"
<crimsun> LordKow: that's the idea.
<LordKow> if a person wondered about the comments they could search for DISABLE_DEPRECATED in the changelog and get there instantly
<crimsun> precisely.
<LordKow> now, how do you attach more than 1 file to a single comment... or include it as the comment?
<LordKow> i see
<LordKow> ;p
<jdong> ok, 4 hours of backports triage for one night is quite enough
 * jdong moves on to something else
<Hobbsee> jdong: now fix real bugs.
<Hobbsee> :)
<jdong> haha
 * jdong follows up on his gtkpod-aac bug
<Hobbsee> jdong: adding crack != fixing bugs.
<LordKow> okay hopefully the version i just uploaded to bug 163261 passes
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163261 in balsa "New upstream release 2.3.20" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163261
<crimsun> heh, I had forgotten that ESR uses [a ]Ubuntu[ base]
<crimsun> he, too, has been bitten by the atrocious HDA bugs
<jdong> wait do I subscribe motu-uvf or u-u-s for a Universe SRU?
<crimsun> the latter
<crimsun> (hopefully you aren't pulling in an entirely new upstream version for an SRU!)
<jdong> crimsun: lol not this time, this time it's a fairly small debdiff
<jdong> whoo I think I wrangled another gtkpod-aac bug to the ground
 * jdong hopes he didn't just jinx himself
<jdong> should two pending SRU's on a package be combined into one?
<crimsun> generally, no.
<crimsun> if, however, the changes are orthogonal and well tested, then it's possible.
<jdong> crimsun: so one should be verified/uploaded first, then the second one is done on top of that?
<crimsun> jdong: ideally, yes, but if the conditions are as described above, then it can be argued into one upload.
<crimsun> jdong: it all lies in how it's presented and how the changes are made  : )
<jdong> crimsun: well, they are two independent bugs in gtkpod-aac. One involves reverting MP4 Group metadata handling to Feisty's version's behavior, another involves cherrypicking a SVN fix for not being able to add tracks to a local repository.
<jdong> as I said, completely different :)
<crimsun> I'd say that's fairly safe to combine
<crimsun> no xserver-xgl-magnitude ones, though ; )
<jdong> they're both fairly small debdiffs and easily reviewable
<pwnguin> arg. why does xmlGetProp() return attributes?
<pwnguin> would it be so hard to name things according to the standard? =(
<jdong> G*** ***** ****ING *******!
<jdong> if shutil.move() errors out when a destination exists, I'm gonna impale myself
<jdong> no phew it works
<pwnguin> please save the cutting for the emo kids
<jdong> WHOO! two birds one stone with gtkpod-aac :)
<s1024kb> persia: hi
<persia> Hello s1024kb
<jdong> persia: hey, you up for finishing some gtkpod-aac goodness with  me or busy? :)
<persia> jdong: I actually don't have an iPod, nor do I use the package: what do you need?
<jdong> persia: no iPod necessary, I just need some sponsorship on a Hardy upload and also a SRU
<jdong> no iPod is needed even for verification
<persia> jdong: Is the bug in the sponsors queue?  That's about third on my list of things right now, and I'd prefer to catch it then (if someone else doesn't first).
<jdong> persia: yeah, I just wanted to make sure I didn't confuse the sponsor queue with my ambivalence
<persia> jdong: Ambivalence?
<jdong> persia: I see you already got that 135178 doesn't need sponsoring anymore
<jdong> persia: and I've opened #145506 for a Hardy sponsor
<persia> jdong: Ah.  Yes, I was subscribed to that one from my last look, so received the notice when you requested it be dropped from the queue.
<persia> bug #145506
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145506 in gtkpod-aac "gtkpod-aac does not allow adding local tracks, claims iPod is not loaded (gutsy)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145506
<jdong> persia: and I've opened bug #163283 that is a SRU containing the previous two fixes rolled in gutsy-proposed format
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163283 in gtkpod-aac "[SRU/Gutsy]: Two patches for gtkpod-aac" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163283
<jdong> the ambivalence was deciding if those two patches should be handled in one or two SRU's, and crimsun swayed me towards one :)
<jdong> I just wanted to verify that I didn't leave out any important information for the SRU
<s1024kb> persia: i am in my last steps of my package merging, almost done, i want to ask you a question: from where (which file) i can find the changes of the debian version, and i can add them to the changelog of the last ubuntu version i should make now?
<persia> I'm generally in favor of having as few updates to a package as possible, with wrapped fixes.
<persia> jdong: So 145506 should be declined for gutsy?
<jdong> persia: that is correct. 163283 should be the one going into gutsy
<jdong> 145506 only needs to go into Hardy
<persia> s1024kb: The changes from the last Debian version are documented in debian/changelog in the last Debian version, and can be extracted with debdiff or interdiff between the Debian version the last Ubuntu version was based upon and the last Debian version.
<persia> jdong: Declined.  I'll dig into the patches when I hit the queue (if they are still there).
<jdong> persia: ok, thanks so much for your time :)
<s1024kb> persia: thanks
<persia> jdong: No problems.  I like to keep the queue clean, in the hopes that this inspires all the sponsors :)
<jdong> hehe :)
<LucidFox> I noticed that Launchpad's build servers don't use pbuilder. What is it that they do use?
<persia> LucidFox: sbuild
<persia> LucidFox: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto may be useful if you want to replicate that: such a setup has been working well for me.
<crimsun> (the wonderful, wonderful world of sbuild)
<crimsun> eww, this script has "race condition" written all over it
<crimsun> good thing I decided to not ship it in gutsy
<LaserJock> persia: ah, you're here
<persia> LaserJock: Yes.  Sorry: unexpected activities last night.  prepping things for you is 2nd on my current todo list.
<LaserJock> persia: I just had an idea about REVU wilst taking a shower
<persia> LaserJock: What's that?
<LaserJock> well, I'm thinking perhaps a 2 step system could be employed and perhaps  work with your mentoring thing
<LaserJock> I was sort of thinking about how we do bugs
<persia> LaserJock: Could you expand?  I've wary of mixing mentoring with other processes: I think that there are lots of people who do well without mentors.
<LaserJock> so the 1st step would be "triage", basically going down a checklist similar to what you wrote -motu about
<LaserJock> being lintian clean, basic things, and builds
<LaserJock> then second step would be an actual thorough review for the acks
<LaserJock> now, I was thinking that the 1st step would be a nice activity for the mentees in Step 2 of the mentoring program to do
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if this is too complicated or red-tape laden though
<ScottK> LaserJock: There's nothing that stops non-motus from giving reviews via ORC now.
<ScottK> ORC/IRC
<LaserJock> ScottK: no, but I was thinking in a more formal way
<LaserJock> as in we have a triaged flag
<LaserJock> that they can set
<LaserJock> which would bump the priority
<ScottK> Right, but since the mentoring program is totally optional, I'm not sure how to work that.
<LaserJock> well, it wouldn't be strictly tied to mentoring program
<persia> LaserJock: That makes some sense, and I like it.  I'd like to do it much more like we do bugs, and ignore the relationship to the mentoring program.
<LaserJock> I'm just thinking "MOTU Hopeful" here
<persia> Essentially, allow package check assignment, subscription, etc.
<LaserJock> somebody who knows how to use pbuilder and lintian
<LaserJock> persia: but I think it'd be an excellent excersice for Step 2 mentees
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  I agree that most Contributors could likely do reviews, and that having a better mechanism for them to do so on the reviewing site would be nice.
<persia> None of the people who I've worked with through what I'd proposed as "Step 2" needed nay help figuring out what to do: they just needed a little help determining how to promote their activities, and how to build the basis for an application.
<LaserJock> persia: well, I was thinking it'd be a good way for them to "show their stuff" and get a little reward for it
<persia> Rather, anyone who can generate a good candidate revision, do merges well, etc. can probably help review some of the packages.  I believe there is some discussion about opening comments to all Contributors, if the ordering logic can be kept sane.
<LaserJock> but if you don't think it'd be useful fine
<LaserJock> well, but see I don't particularly like just opening comments
<LaserJock> as it's a bit difficult to follow, IMO, when everybody's just adding comments
<persia> LaserJock: It's not that I don't think it would be useful, it's that I believe the appropriate time is between "stage 1" and "stage 2", and that many people won't require mentoring.
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> I was just thinking it would work well with your mentoring scheme
<persia> I think comments can work, as long as it is clear that only reviewing comments are accepted.  Social pressure can be brought to bear on people who aren't providing good reviews.
<LaserJock> give them something to contribute to that a) makes a difference and b) helps us out
<LaserJock> persia: I'm just thinking a more elegant solution is possible
<persia> LaserJock: I suppose.  I like to think of different processes that are compatible, rather than one master plan.
<LaserJock> well right
<LaserJock> bah, I'm having really bad luck getting my points across the last couple days
<ScottK> The real problem, as I understand it, is that to enable a class of users to comment, but not adovocate on REVU, the DB schema would have to be changed and that has a lot of risks to it.
<LaserJock> maybe I need flow charts
<persia> LaserJock: A more elegant solution is definitely possible.  I think there is the start of renewed interest in REVU2, and I know that a staging / testing environment is being configured.
<persia> ScottK: The big risk was the lack of a testing environment.  It is hoped that increased infrastructure will address some of that.
<LaserJock> well, I don't really care about the tools
<LaserJock> tools can be written to do what we need
<ScottK> LaserJock: But whatever process we use, we need tool support for.
<LaserJock> we need to figure out what we want to do first
<ScottK> OK
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Right.  At a high level, I completely agree that Contributors should be encouraged to help with the New Package process as much as with any of our other processes.
<LaserJock> so I realize that we can't implement this in REVU, but we should be looking to REVU2 at least
<persia> Further, I believe that MOTUs should not be restricted from participating in the process, even at the first pass (I still do bug triage and initial comments, and don't intend to stop).
<LaserJock> persia: no, I'm not restricting, I'm trying to open it up
<LaserJock> so one of the big problems is initial turnaround in REVU
<LaserJock> so if we harness the vast army of MOTU Hopefuls ;-) to triage REVU
<LaserJock> and provide useful feedback to REVU contributors while still keeping the MOTU ack as "sacred"
<LaserJock> some MOTUs may prefer the triaging
<LaserJock> some don't like to see crappy packages and throw them back
<LaserJock> or am I on crack?
<crimsun> (well, we're all on crack...)
<persia> LaserJock: If you're not on crack, you're not trying
<LaserJock> the other thing, IMO, while thinking about NEW packages as bugs
<LaserJock> was really they are wishlist
<LaserJock> and perhaps we're creating unreasonable expectations in people
<persia> LaserJock: I think that there is general support for allowing better access for Contributors to help with REVU, and I've seen a couple people mention that they were looking at it, but I've not seen a spec published yet.
<persia> unreasonable expectations?
<LaserJock> well, I still feel like we push people to REVU a lot
<persia> How do you mean "push people to REVU"?
<LaserJock> and Mark and others have sort of promoted REVU/MOTU as the place to get *anything* in
<ScottK> LaserJock: REVU is what our process says to use.
<LaserJock> well, like people wanting to help, learn to package, become MOTUs
<LaserJock> ScottK: s/REVU/packaging for NEW/
<ScottK> Yes
<persia> LaserJock: That's just a matter of individuals.  Personally, I always point at bugs.  I don't think new packaging or merging is a good way to learn.
<LaserJock> and so essentially I think we end up placing too much emphasis on wishlist bugs
 * ScottK agrees New packages isn't always (or even usually) the best place to start
<LaserJock> so I was wondering if, as a part of the triaging process, if we could have some measure of Importance as well
<persia> ScottK: Considering your entry, thanks for that: I've long considered you one of the bug proponents of the start with NEW opinion
<persia> LaserJock: Package importance?
<LaserJock> like, there's a big difference between some little script that all of 2 people in the world use
<LaserJock> and say Kompozer
<ScottK> persia: I think it needs to be an option, but isn't best for someone that just wants to help out.
<persia> ScottK: Right.
<LaserJock> which is where we had a NEW package that was replacing a well-known existing package
<ScottK> I showed up with some specific stuff I wanted to accomplish and so New packages was motivationally the right place for me to start.
<ScottK> That's an important case, but not, I don't think, the most common.
<persia> Hmm.  I still think REVU is best managed as a FIFO queue for reviews.  Now that anything rejected gets sorted to the bottom, we have a better chance of getting everything done.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> perhaps
<persia> I think it's about creating a fair system, and then concentrating on response time, rather than creating an imbalanced system.  The volume isn't high enough that we couldn't do it if we tried.
<LaserJock> I just can't help but think we're adding too much to Universe
<LaserJock> I think we need to figure out what we want to do in some ways
<imbrandon> package the $world
<LaserJock> if MOTU is about managing the divergence from Debian then I think we should really have very very few packages in Ubuntu not in Debian
<LaserJock> and REVU would be mostly about new upstreams, Ubuntu specific packages, and corner cases
<persia> LaserJock: Depends on philosophy.  I'm of the opinion that anyone who wants to do something should be able to do that as a concentrated team, and that Universe should include everything for which there is upstream maintenance, source, and a reasonable license.
<LaserJock> right
<ScottK> Additionally, REVU and Ubuntu can serve as a good step on the way to getting stuff into Debian.
<LaserJock> however that philosophy hasn't, IMO, really worked for us all that well
<imbrandon> see thats the thing with all this discussion about that, my feeling is that not all MOTU are not about the same thing, some manage the divergance some do new packages some help Hopefulls etc etc etc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: mile wide and an inch deep
<LaserJock> we get spread so thin that things fall through the cracks
<persia> I think of MOTU as coordinating that growth.  As we get more and more non-Debian packages, we need more activity in DCT to ensure that we don't lose that, and also more activity in upstream updates for our local packages.
<LaserJock> sometimes rather big things
<imbrandon> LaserJock: true, but the hunt for new MOTU is always on ( as it should be )
<ScottK> Sure, but we're also volunteers and so divergent interests are going to get divergent stuff done and that's both inevitable and OK.
<LaserJock> I'd rather us do a smaller set of things really well and branch out from there
<imbrandon> ScottK: right
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then convince other MOTUs to work on that smaller set.
<persia> I don't think lots of new MOTU is the goal we should seek (although it would be nice).  I'd like to see more encouragement of Contributors.  There are lots of people who can spend a couple hours every weekend, and can do good work, but who don't have the time to keep track of everything for MOTU.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: thats kinda what we did , warty was a very small change from sid at the time , then onward
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I don't think we've done anything particularly well for a couple of releases
<LaserJock> but maybe that's my cynacism talking
<imbrandon> persia: someone that spends a few hours every weekend SHOULD be a MOTU, just because we diehards give X hours dosent mean that should be the bar, IMHO the MOTU bar shouldent matter on quanity at all, only quality
<persia> LaserJock: It sounds like you're talking about focused support for some subset of packages that isn't in main, but isn't all of universe.  If you identify the set, and have some others who agree on the set, you can make a team, subscribe all the packages, and focus.  Look at mythbuntu or ubuntustudio for good examples.
<LaserJock> persia: well, I would like to do that yes
<LaserJock> but minimally I'd like us to support *every* ubuntu versioned package in Universe
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe, but it takes a long time to get enough work done to be considered for MOTU if you only spend a couple hours a week.  I'm not opposed to them becoming MOTU, but think we need to support them better before they get there.
<LaserJock> persia: my worry with that is that MOTU has become increasingly just a set of managers
<LaserJock> which is no fun for many people
<LaserJock> if you look at the number of uploads by MOTUs as a percentage of packages I think it's gone down significantly
<imbrandon> persia: i dont think so unless thats recient, in the begning infact untill i became core, i put ~10 hours a week in, and made MOTU in 3 months iirc
<persia> LaserJock: *every* ubuntu versioned package is a big list.  After UVF, I generate one of those for every other bug I investigate.  I don't mean to be adding to anyone else's workload, as I'm just integrating Debian fixes.
<LaserJock> persia: it is a big list, but that's our mess, we need to take care of it
<persia> imbrandon: It depends on the person.  Still, I don't see any reason not to support Contributors just because they don't intend to become MOTU (I certainly didn't).
<imbrandon> persia: yea i'm not saying that at all, definately support contributors that dont want to be MOTU
<persia> LaserJock: Perhaps.  Personally, I don't care if most bugs affect an ubuntu versioned package or one we pull from Debian, but I can see your point.
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> imbrandon: In that case, all is good :)
<LaserJock> persia: I'm tired of pissed off upstream complaining about *us* making their software worse than they put out
<imbrandon> persia: i just dont think your timeframe from $hopefull to $motu is accurate was my point
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> Ubuntu shouldn't be making software worse!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: well i think alot of that is before they had X users and now since its in ubuntu and ubuntu has become so popular they have X^2 users
<imbrandon> and upstream dont understand always that more users == more bugs reported
<persia> LaserJock: I've seen upstream complain about us when we pull from Debian as well.  I discussed why the variance was in place, and upstream helped create a patch that worked for both Debian and Ubuntu.  We're different from upstream, but it's no longer worse.
<persia> imbrandon: Yes, but sometimes it's the package patches as well.
<imbrandon> definatly , and sometimes its just a diffrence of opinion, take koversation , kubuntu set its own defaults for it, config options that was supplied by the program, no patching, and upstream got upset because it wasent "pure" konversation and they beleave every distro should ship "pure" apps
<imbrandon> so really each instance has to be looked at indivualy, in that case it was a matter of kubuntu != vannilla kde
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> it dident claim to be etc etc etc
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I'm talking about us screwing up
<LaserJock> it happens often enough that it does need to be addressed
<imbrandon> LaserJock: we're people , we're gonna screw sometimng up sometime no matter how small the focus
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but we dont' fix things
<imbrandon> all we can do is fix it as it comes
<LaserJock> at least not very well
<imbrandon> sure, looking at the upload logs we fix things by the minute
<LaserJock> we mostly process things
<LaserJock> it's like shuffling paperwork
<imbrandon> sure, btu thats what distros do, they are the intorgrators, not the developers, distro developers is largly a misnomer short of someone like scott with upstart or ubiguity
<imbrandon> but*
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we shouldn't be making software *worse* if we can help it
<imbrandon> i 100% agree
<LaserJock> and it seems like we spend a lot of time focused on other things
<LaserJock> than a lot of other distros
<imbrandon> but i can atest thats not the intentions when a package is patched, infact most patches dont originate in ubuntu they are pulled from $RCS
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yes we do, and thats one thing that sets us appart from other distros
<imbrandon> inotherwords LaserJock i'm 10000% agreeing with you, i just personaly dont see that as "new in ubuntu" or a problem
<imbrandon> i mean we do the best we can, the only alternative i see is $close-shop
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<imbrandon> hehe sabdfl cant pay 10000000 more full time developers, and honestly i'm not sure how much of a diffrence it would make past a certain threshold
 * imbrandon often wonders how many developers , actual coders MS employs
<StevenK> LaserJock: And how are we making software worse?
<StevenK> imbrandon: *Many* - the number I've heard is like 30,000, but I don't know if that number is wrong or what
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> StevenK: by release either broken versions or not paying enough attention
<StevenK> LaserJock: The broken versions themselves are not our fault.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we rarely intentionally cause problems
<LaserJock> but we're not great about recognising unintential breakage and then fixing them
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if we could make sure we're supporting the divergence we create
<StevenK> Could it be due to the fact that there is >11,000 source packages and only ~30 active MOTUs?
<LaserJock> and the almost as importantly, pulling in fixed from Debian when things are fixed upstream
<LaserJock> StevenK: that's what I'm saying
<LaserJock> there's two things you can do about that
<LaserJock> get more MOTUs, which hasn't really worked that well, IMO
<ScottK> LaserJock: The trick there is feeding back stuff to Debian/Upstream.  ~80% of my 'merges' I had when Hardy opened turned out to be syncs because I'd done that.
<persia> LaserJock: For at least RC, we do a reasonable job of that, and have some tools (although more people pulling would be nice).
<LaserJock> or not creating so much divergence
<persia> LaserJock: 99% of the divergence is bugfixes.  I don't think that's an ideal solution.
<LaserJock> ScottK: right, we aren't pushing upstream nearly enough
<LaserJock> persia: but we shouldn't be maintaining *any* bug fixes for any decent length of time
<persia> LaserJock: In some cases, yes, but there are often differences between Ubuntu main and Debian required that force us to do so.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and we should be maintaining that
<LaserJock> not adding new packages and mucking around with stuff we can't maintain properly
<persia> Specifically, I get particularly annoyed when Ubuntu people create Debian bugs where the patch doesn't fix a problem in Debian, and may make the package worse.
<persia> LaserJock: Why should we limit?  We're volunteers.  People should do what they want, no?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> they shouldn't
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ummm ?
<LaserJock> they should do what needs to be done
<LaserJock> I think volunteers doing whatever they want is just stupid
<imbrandon> see thats the diffrence between $paid and $vol
<persia> LaserJock: Maybe.  It's harder to keep them doing that when it's externally defined, and there is no obvious reward.
<LaserJock> sure
<LucidFox> Wow, a flamewar. *sits down and relaxes*
<imbrandon> LaserJock: then that cuts the ~30 active to ~5 active
 * Fujitsu thinks we need to *discourage* creation of new packages.
 * persia agrees with Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Not ban, but not encourage.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we still might get ahead
<imbrandon> sure at the cost of loosing vol and possibly users
<LaserJock> at some level I think that's ok
<imbrandon> i dont
<LaserJock> I sure don't want people to leave
<LaserJock> but if you don't want to be a part of the team then well, maybe we aren't the place to be
<LaserJock> a ruderless ship isn't going to go anywhere
<LaserJock> we *have* to have direction, priorities, leadership
<imbrandon> sure but limiting that team in such was makes it undesireable to $vol, and then you need $paid
<imbrandon> sure
<persia> LaserJock: I guess I'm saying that I don't see a point to a rudder for MOTU: more that I encourage the definition of teams within MOTU to accomplish defined goals.
<persia> If the team is not led, it will fail.  If the team is well-led, it can create excellent results.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but our users deserve more than "meh, nobody really felt like it"
<imbrandon> LaserJock: but i think your trying to push what should be a sub-team goal on a full team
<LaserJock> pfft
<persia> LaserJock: So, while I've been disagreeing wtih you down the line above, I do encourage you to work with the DCT team to reduce our variance, and perhaps start an upstream-collaboration team to make that cleaner as well.
<LaserJock> people have been against subteam for as long as we've tried to do them
<LaserJock> I'd for sure support subteams defining goals, etc.
<LaserJock> but the fact of the matter is most people need to be told what to do
<imbrandon> LaserJock: howso there are tons of flurishing subteams, you just need to get critical mass for it, look at mythbuntu , ubuntu-x etc etc etc
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  sub-team is the wrong word.  Other team that collaborates.  Look at the mythbuntu team, or the torrent team, or the desktop team, or the ubuntustudio team.  Not all members of those teams are MOTU, but they do keep certain subsets of packages well maintained.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: right, like the python team, games team, multimedia team ...
<imbrandon> sure
<persia> LaserJock: I don't know about multimedia, but -python and -games have merged with Debian, and tend to keep things well maintained.
<LaserJock> persia: right, cause they died off
<persia> LaserJock: Not at all.  I'm a member of games, and while we mostly work in alioth SVN, we're certainly not dead.  I also see lots of work from -python.
<imbrandon> i dont think merging with upstream means died off, look at pkg-kde on alioth its mostly ubuntu people
<LaserJock> right, but we don't have any official MOTU subteams that are actually working well, at least that I'm aware of
<imbrandon> ummm we just named ~ 5-10
<persia> LaserJock: What is an "offical MOTU subteam"?
<LaserJock> we have a team list
<persia> Ah.  Right.  The team list needs to be updated: that's a documentation lag.
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<LaserJock> I've seen no activity from any team on -motu
<persia> LaserJock: In this channel?
<LaserJock> mailing list was what I was thinking of
<LaserJock> I'm sure theres some here
<imbrandon> why would there be ?
<LaserJock> they should have task lists
<LaserJock> be coordinating with general MOTU
<imbrandon> teams ( i know mythbuntu ) uses its own ML
<LaserJock> etc.
<imbrandon> mostly
<LaserJock> I don't consider mythbuntu to be a MOTU team
<persia> LaserJock: Most teams have their own lists.
<LaserJock> persia: well, I realize that, I started 2 of them
<LaserJock> and they're both dead
<imbrandon> LaserJock: what would they be then? they maintain all myth packages in universe and m,ultiverse , afaik none are in main
<LaserJock> imbrandon: a derivtive
<imbrandon> the OS yes, not the team
<LaserJock> which obviously does affect Universe/Multiverse
<LaserJock> but I wouldn't consider them a subteam of MOTU per se
<persia> LaserJock: OK.  How about -games?  We've some in universe, and some in main.
<LaserJock> what about it? sorry
<LaserJock> this is sort of tangential to what I was saying before
<persia> LaserJock: Is it an "official MOTU team"?  There's almost never a post to ubuntu-motu@
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i guess i'm starting to think you see a set of packages that need love and have no team or a dead team, honestly i dont know how to help that, but i dont think that represents universe as a whole
<LaserJock> persia: yes, but not a very active one I wouldn't think
<imbrandon> -games is very active afaik
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  In that case we should do a little more promotion :)
<LaserJock> I think sub team should be doing the *majority* of the work
<LaserJock> in any case
<LaserJock> I guess I'm off my rocker tonight
<LaserJock> well, maybe that should just be it
<LaserJock> I just can't sit here and cry over MOTU anymore
<imbrandon> ok how about another subject :) feedback for http://search.ubuntuwire.com/xml/annotations.xml ( the sites search.ubuntuwire.com indexes ) and BTW I added a firefox search plugin to the page tonight
<StevenK> Yes, there's a problem, and yes it's a hard problem. There is no silver bullet for it.
<persia> imbrandon: Do wiki. and help. not automatically inherit from *.ubuntu.com ?
<imbrandon> wiki and help are specified at the bootom
<imbrandon> bottom*
<imbrandon> so they can be labled and refined
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  I'm just wondering why.
<imbrandon> yes but *. dosent ahve a lable, wiki does, e.g. search ONLY wiki pages
<imbrandon> if you notice when you search there is a "Refine this Search" link at the top of the results that can narrow it down to Labels
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  I understand now.  Thanks.
 * StevenK sighs. qa.d.o/madison.php is busted, which makes filing syncs dreadful.
<s1024kb> persia: what will debdiff do?
<persia> s1024kb: Generate a patch that would convert one revision into another.  By reviewing the debdiff, you can understand what has changed.
<s1024kb> persia: when i run "grab-merge", i see the patch was generated already... is it correct?
<persia> s1024kb: I don't know.  I've never used grab-merge, and believe it encourages people not to understand the differences when merging.
<s1024kb> persia: you don't use the grab-merge script? so you download the source and merge it by other tool?
<persia> s1024kb: Yes.  I download the latest revisions in each of Debian and Ubuntu, review the changes in each from the common source, and build a new revision that I believe to be appropriate for Ubuntu.
<persia> s1024kb: That doesn't mean you shouldn't use grab-merge.  Many people do.  It only means I can't answer your questions about it.
<s1024kb> persia: you use "debdiff" to generate the patch?
<persia> s1024kb: Yes, but that doesn't do a merge, it only generates a patch between two versions.  My workflow isn't likely the easiest to learn.
<s1024kb> persia: will you feel it very difficult when you were a beginner? How do you get help and finally overcame the obstacles?
<persia> s1024kb: I first learned patch from working on collaborative projects via mailing lists.  I learned debdiff when preparing candidate revisions for simple bugs, an developed my merging process when trying to update the packages I'd changed for the next release.
<persia> Each step was not so big, and so seemed not so hard.
<s1024kb> persia: have you ever read some useful books or documents about it?
<persia> s1024kb: About merging?  There's a page on the wiki (but it moved since last I looked).  About debdiff?  There's the manpage, but it's not very useful if you don't know patch.  About patch, not at all, and I'm still not certain I understand all the details.  I would just recommend reading lots of patches: you can see the format, and understand how it would be applied.
<s1024kb> persia: i feel that it's difficults just reading the packing guide and learn packaging...i am searching for more detail documents.
<nxvl> i hate asm!!!
<imbrandon> section .text   _start
<imbrandon> err
<Fujitsu> Remarkably relevant.
<imbrandon> yea but wrong
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> section .text
<imbrandon> _start:
<siretart> jdong: yes, xine is safe in this respect
<nxvl> imbrandon: i'm developing a floating-point calc :S
<imbrandon> ouch
<nxvl> yep
<imbrandon> gnight all
<s1024kb> what's the difference between the result using the script "grab-merge" and "apt-get source"?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: grab-merge gets Debian files as well
 * persia wonders why most crashes are in network tools, games, and audio generators
<s1024kb> jpatrick: beside that, i see it when using "apt-get source", the merge was done already? is it true?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: it shouldn't, unless someone did do it...
<s1024kb> jpatrick: if i use apt-get source, i can also merge it by other tools without the grab-merge.sh?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: yep
<s1024kb> jpatrick: okay, thanks. could you please tell me when i had finished merging and nothing wrong, all the .patch files are created, where i can find the information about the changes to fill the changelog?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: ah, you have to do that yourself :)
<jpatrick> that's the fun bit
<geser> s1024kb: grab-merge.sh fetches the files from MoM while apt-get source fetches the current source package from the archive
<s1024kb> geser: just now i download your "svnmailer" for study, because i see that you were the last uploader and i think that i can ask you something i could not understand... :-)
<s1024kb> jpatrick: so you mean, i should read the files carefully, find out what have been changed and write them on the changelog with my own understanding?
 * wallyweek bumps
<geser> s1024kb: yes (or look at the old entries)
<jpatrick> s1024kb: or at least any Ubuntu changes that aren't in Debian
<s1024kb> jpatrick: i should write the changes of both the patches of the Ubuntu version and the Debian version? right?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: you are merging in the Debian patches (if necessary) and writing the remaining Ubuntu changes
<s1024kb> jpatrick: does the remaining Ubuntu changes means the difference between my merge result and the last Ubuntu version which is just before this final result?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: I didn't mean writing them, but just state them
<jpatrick> s1024kb: example: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-November/001182.html
<s1024kb> jpatrick: thank you for showing me the format. so i should find out the changes carefully and state them on the file? the changes between my merge result and the last Ubuntu version which is just before this result?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: yes
<jpatrick> jpatrick: me changes to the Ubuntu version are the ones after the first "*"
<s1024kb> jpatrick: i should research the patches carefully and state the changes in my own language?
<jpatrick> s1024kb: only if you need to remove them as I did^
<quail> Me TV 0.4.3 has been uploaded to REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=628) and has undergone 1 review, but no advocates. If anyone knows a MOTU with a DVB card then please let them know of our application.  Even in its bare form I think that Me TV is the best way to use DVB on the GNOME desktop.
 * DaveMorris grumbles about packages been in repo with certain copyright files, then I can't do the same 
<DaveMorris> quail: poke superm1
<s1024kb> jpatrick: so if i have nothing to remove, i mean, i accept all the changes, so i have nothing to state?
<jpatrick> quail: why have README.Debian if you have nothing to write there
<jpatrick> s1024kb: from Debian? You'll have to state any Ubuntu changes remaining
<quail> jpatrick: I am just the alpha / beta tester / doc writer for the project but I will look into and get it sorted thanks
<jpatrick> quail: version number should be 0.4.4-0ubuntu1 and seeing as it's not in Ubuntu or Debian it should have only: "* Initial release" in debian/changelog
<s1024kb> jpatrick: i just don't understand what's does it mean "the changes remaining". we combine the Ubuntu changes to the base version, and we combine the Debian changes to the base version, right? and make them to be the latest version?
<geser> s1024kb: you describe the remaining changes between the Debian version you merged and the merged Ubuntu package (i.e. all changes in the debdiff)
<s1024kb> geser: does it mean "the changes between the Debian version and my final result"?
<geser> s1024kb: say we take a Debian package with version -1 and modify it (-> -1ubuntu1), the Debian maintainer uploads -2 (perhaps with some of the changes Ubuntu did), we merge it and check which of the changes in -1ubuntu1 is still needed and apply on -2 (->2ubuntu1) and list this remaining changes in the changelog
<geser> s1024kb: yes
<Kmos> geser: in that case, we don't need to include all changelog entries before that version.. because it's only a -1ubuntu1
<quail> jpatrick: I have passed that info on to the devolper so we can work all that out :-)
<Kmos> or we need to ?
<persia> DaveMorris: Which package, which license?
<s1024kb> geser: okay, so i can feel free to write down what had been changed as what i see after my research of the files?
<geser> s1024kb: yes
<quail> jpatrick: do you mind adding your questions / info to here (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=628) please so to help us keep track things
<s1024kb> geser: ^^. so "merging" means we have to find out what had been changed and are they okay and can be merge to the final result? If yes, accept it, if no, remove it?
<jpatrick> quail: no problem
<geser> Kmos: I don't fully understand your question. Which entries do you want to drop?
<DaveMorris> persia: cppunit
<quail> jpatrick: cheers :-)
<DaveMorris> I did the same for my package cpptest and got told to put the preamble in there as well
<DaveMorris> persia: on gutsy btw
<geser> s1024kb: yes, check the old Ubuntu changes if they still are needed (and keep them) or if they can be dropped (e.g. obselete, transitional error, etc.)
<persia> DaveMorris: Ah.  I think the Ubuntu archive-admins are more careful with copyright than the Debian ftp-masters: likely because they are less experienced, and so more afraid of making a mistake.
<s1024kb> geser: okay. ^^ so if they can be dropped, how to do?
<jpatrick> quail: done
<persia> DaveMorris: Also see Debian bug #437526
<ubotu> Debian bug 437526 in libcppunit-dev "libcppunit-dev: old debian/copyright, upgrade to newest standard" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/437526
<geser> s1024kb: simply don't apply them
<Kmos> geser: let's imagine we use a synced version of a package from ubuntu, and we need to to -1ubuntu1 to change something. After we create a specific changelog entry for the package, we need to get oldest changelog entries from ubuntu if it have some ? or we don't need it, because that will inscrease the difference between ubuntu and debian packages.
<quail> jpatrick: thanks :-)
<Kmos> *from debian
<geser> Kmos: when a package got synced (and old Ubuntu changes got dropped) you don't need to readd these old changelog entries again if you need to modify it again later
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Kmos> geser: ah ok =) thanks
 * Hobbsee waves
<geser> Hobbsee: how was your exam?
<Hobbsee> geser: yesterday's was terrible.  todays' was good
<pochu> There's a session about how to properly read Stack traces in #ubuntu-classroom in ~1 minute, in case anyone is interested...
<txwikinger> thanks pochu
<pochu> txwikinger: thank persia :)
<geser> pochu: thanks for reminding, I forgot about it
<effie_jayx> morning everyone
<michaellamothe> evening everyone.
<quail> evening michaellamothe
<michaellamothe> Hi quail, thanks for the info.
<quail> np mate
<quail> michaellamothe: about Me TV you might want to poke superm1
<michaellamothe> What if he "punch michaellamothe"?
<quail> superm1: ping are you about?
<DaveMorris> quail: superm1 is in the USA
<DaveMorris> let him wakee up 1st ;)
<quail> DaveMorris: sorry I not know that
<LucidFox> jpatrick, I have addressed your comments regarding kwest on REVU
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kwest
<jpatrick> LucidFox: I must say that's a very good bit of packaging
<jpatrick> LucidFox: I'll pbuild when I can and approve it later
<LucidFox> thanks
<\sh> moins
<\sh> Fujitsu, will add the missing cve to the debdiffs..easy one now ,-)
<\sh> Fujitsu, oh this 3391 doesn't affect feisty and edgy at all...this file doesn't exist in our version...I think it came with 0.99.5
<\sh> Fujitsu, upstream reports: Wireshark could exhaust system memory while reading a malformed DCP ETSI packet.  (Bug 1264)
<\sh> Versions affected: 0.99.5
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1264 in malone "Bug keyword search is overly-literal (dup-of: 28975)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 28975 in launchpad "Product search doesn't do partial word" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28975
<\sh> Fujitsu, but the other ones really affects edgy and feisty...sry for not seeing them..will add them
<Fujitsu> \sh: Aha, thanks for looking into that. I just noted them as still open in the CVE tracker. So you can confirm that 3391 only ever affected >= Gutsy?
<\sh> Fujitsu, jepp...and this I'll fix for gutsy seperatly :)
<Fujitsu> Woo, 47 wordpress CVEs to look through.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Isn't it already in Gutsy? I thought we had 0.99.6 there..
<\sh> Fujitsu, the other 4 CVEs are only affecting edgy actually, because debian upstream already fixed them in feisty
<Fujitsu> !info wireshark gutsy
<ubotu> wireshark: network traffic analyzer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.99.6rel-3 (gutsy), package size 574 kB, installed size 1428 kB
<\sh> Fujitsu, right...sorry..:)
<Fujitsu> \sh: I think I mentioned that in the bug that I referenced (#80something)
<Fujitsu> I'll mark those off, then.
<\sh> Fujitsu, feisty is set to fix released :)
<Fujitsu> That means we'll be up to date, except for Dapper.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Right.
<\sh> Fujitsu, edgy I'm patching now
<quail> Fujitsu: hiya mate, how are you?
<Fujitsu> quail: Hi, not bad. Just finished year 12 exams.
<quail> sweet, hope you went well in them :-)
<Fujitsu> Hopefully.
<quail> Fujitsu: have you got a dvb card?
<Fujitsu> Myself, no. But one of the boxes that I set up at school has two dual DVB tuners.
<\sh> oh this is so painful...
<Fujitsu> \sh: Why?
<Fujitsu> Oh, great. Only 1001 open universe CVEs.
<\sh> Fujitsu, cherry picking those patches from upstream svn takes so long
<minghua> Oh my.  How many CVEs do they issue per year?
<\sh> alot
<\sh> and we just have a few people checking them
<Fujitsu> minghua: ~6000
<minghua> Fujitsu: Oh.  Much larger number than I thought.
<Fujitsu> A lot of them are for proprietary or unpackaged pieces of software, so don't affect us, which are good.
<Fujitsu> *which is good
<\sh> but 1001 open cves for universe is a hell of a lot
<Fujitsu> It is.
<Fujitsu> A lot of them aren't triaged.
<Fujitsu> Most of wordpress' 42 are all untriaged.
<Fujitsu> (yes, 42. WordPress is very secure)
<geser> and wordpress upstream doesn't provide patches but only new versions
<Fujitsu> geser: Right, but they normally provide links to the bugs, which link to changesets.
<Fujitsu> Since around 2.0.6.
<Fujitsu> phpmyadmin upstream is also getting better.
<geser> do they still have no changelog?
<geser> I mean WP upstream
<Fujitsu> The release announcements normally link to a list of closed tickets (which is complete) or a diff.
<Hobbsee> so many bugs...
<\sh> Fujitsu, if you have problems with phpmyadmin, you could talk to garvin hicking, and give him some greetings from me, too :) he is also developer for s9y and phpmyadmin afaik...
<Fujitsu> \sh: Aha.
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm looking at updating it in at least Feisty/Gutsy shortly.
<Fujitsu> Other releases will be substantially more difficult.
<\sh> IMHO it's better propose a separate webapplications archive, or not to package them at all
<\sh> drupal is very ok, because they are providing patches
<Fujitsu> phpmyadmin and wordpress are getting better.
<Fujitsu> And they're two of the main contributors to our CVE lists.
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> well, I still have openldap2.2 and openldap2.3 on my list for at least 2 CVes
<\sh> one is fixed by redhat...so I can grab the patch from them
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, I saw them on my list.
<\sh> the other one I fixed for gutsy and feisty already, but for dapper and edgy...hell I don't have a clue how to apply it to the complete different source of 2.2
<\sh> and upstream: fire and forget about 2.2
<Fujitsu> Gaah.
<RainCT> Hi
<\sh> Fujitsu, we need a real universe security team
<Hobbsee> define a real one?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  are there many merges going on at the moment?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: yeah.
<Hobbsee> some
 * Hobbsee hasnt done any in a while, though
<RainCT> what's the best (fastest) way to check if a package is installed, using python?
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  could I try some later on? I notice there is no doc for merges as a recipe for motu-hpefulls
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: there are multiple merge docs, but i dont think it's made into a recipe yet.
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  do you think it is suitable for anyone starting out?
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: merging requires some general knowledge of the archive, often not just the original package
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  rigth
<Hobbsee> hmm.  you'd probably be better picking bugs to fix
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  good then
<effie_jayx> I have spent my first hour today
<\sh> Hobbsee, a group of people who takes care about security fixes...so we can show as well some responsibilty for universe
<Fujitsu> \sh: We really do, but we don't have enough people around to do anything.
<Hobbsee> \sh: right, yeah.
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  maybe I could add a merge latter on... thanks
 * Hobbsee is uncertain as to whether responsibility for universe can be shown, just by sheer ratio of package to people.
<\sh> Fujitsu, I think more, that it's a problem of "everybody loves new upstream version, but no bug fixing" and sometimes it's really easy to catch those fixes (if it is from other distros or from upstream)
 * Fujitsu auctions off chunks of the universe CVE namespace.
<\sh> Hobbsee, the same applies to main, imho...we have a lot of CVEs hanging but I think our main security team can't catch up (imho)
<Hobbsee> yeah well.
<\sh> Hobbsee, just check the list of ubuntu-security
 * white waves
<white> Fujitsu: maybe you want to write a mail to the security-tracker ML and propose adding the ubuntu suites?
<Fujitsu> white: It turns out that we have a separate one for Ubuntu.
<white> Fujitsu: why not using debian's and adding ubuntu information there?
<Fujitsu> white: I'm sure Kees has his reasons.
<\sh> white, because we have different versions to take care of
<\sh> white, for dapper, edgy, feisty e.g. there are all coming from debian unstable these days, and those are already fixed in debian because of new upstream versions
<\sh> white, so many of the CVEs are not in your tracker
<white> \sh: can't that be solved by adding different version checks?
<\sh> white, for the actual development version, we (or at least I) using the security tracker as well
<white> \sh: what do you mean by "so many of the CVEs are not in your tracker"
<Fujitsu> I am, admittedly, using security-tracker.d.n a fair bit while triaging these.
<\sh> white, take wireshark now...
<white> \sh: to the best of my knowledge, we get the newest CVEs from mitre (some might be reserved, because they are embargoed) and track them
<white> \sh: sometimes, we create temp isseus, because there is no CVE yet (but we request it)
<white> Fujitsu: if you use your own, can't we somehow synchronize the work on let's say NFUs and stuff?
<white> or forwarding to the BTS
<Fujitsu> white: I'll talk to Kees about improving collaboration - we need it.
<\sh> white, yes, but see e.g. openldap..:) there is at least one CVE open, which can't be easily fixed with the proposed upstream patch...so there is no patch right now, and on debian bts there is a discussion about who to get rid of openldap2.2...but we can't get rid of 2.2 until 2011
<white> Fujitsu: thanks
<\sh> moins ogra
<ogra> hey
<jogi> I am a victim of the fsck check failed. UUID unable to resolve.
<\sh> ogra, how is suse and family? :)
<jogi> two of my /dev/sdXX partitions are completely missing
<ogra> sleepy, we just got up ...
 * ogra cant remember when he last slept 10h in a row ....
<jogi> google got me to bug 106209 . unable to run any sudo commands
<\sh> ogra, me neither :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106209 in partman-basicfilesystems "fsck Unable to resolve UUID" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106209
<jogi> any workarounds?
<ogra> well, it was needed ... the last two/three months were really bad ...
<ogra> now i'm back in the distro team and sort my duties to share them out ....
<jpatrick> LucidFox: kwest gets a +1 from me
<\sh> ogra, but still working on edubuntu?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but more focused on edu stuff
<ogra> edubuntu will turn into a plain addon, so i dont have to care fo standard distro things ...
<Fujitsu> ogra: Ah, interesting.
<ogra> things that are not 100% edu related (i.e. LTSP) will move where they belong (i.e. LTSP install as done in edubuntu atm will become part of ubuntu alternate)
<jogi> jpatrick, is this kwest the Embedded company in de?
<\sh> ogra, not bad
<jpatrick> jogi: nop: http://kwest.sourceforge.net/
<ogra> i had to put some load off my sholders .... and as usual mdz had the ingenious solution :)
<ogra> i wish there would be such a solution for Riddell .... he really deserves a break as well
<\sh> ogra, that's why he's cto
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> ogra, hire some kde guys ,-)
<ogra> well, i'll be part of kde developent after i sorted my duties .... kdeedu is prety educational ;)
<ogra> as i'll stay part of gnome
<\sh> ogra, woot
<\sh> go ogra go for kde ,-)
<ogra> so at least the edu parts will land on my desk
<Hobbsee> ogra: define a plain addon?
<ogra> Hobbsee, no OS on it
<ogra> only apps and deps
<Hobbsee> oh right.  cool
<ogra> and we'll try to make it usable on ubuntu-desktop/alternate/server and kubuntu if possible (not sure germinate has that cross functionallity tough)
<pochu> Nafallo: new gajim release ;)
<\sh> ogra, well, I just applied for a position at UI and astaro
<Fujitsu> pochu: He's already working on it.
<Nafallo> pochu: updating my pbuilder now
<pochu> Nafallo: wow, you're fast :)
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, go go go ;)
<Nafallo> feed some changes to upstream as well ;-)
<ogra> \sh, crossing my fingers
<\sh> ogra, well, after pinky and brain never got the world domination...what else I can do...110 people are standing on the street now,
<\sh> Nafallo, add contact is not translated into german ;)
<\sh> Nafallo, on gutsy that is
<Nafallo> \sh: ouch. confirmed bug then.
<\sh> Nafallo, bug number? i'll confirm it
<Nafallo> \sh: 162584
<Nafallo> \sh: 1bug 62584
<Nafallo> gaah!
<Nafallo> bug 162584
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162584 in gajim "An English menu entry in German locale in gajim" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162584
<\sh> Nafallo, done
<Nafallo> cheers
<Nafallo> \sh: probably just remove the fuzzy string I guess.
<mok0> Anyone here working with HPC clusters?
<Nafallo> \sh: there are more fuzzies if you want to take a peek ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo, next week most likley...I'm working on wireshark in the moment...and on openldap
<Nafallo> oki, no worries.
<mok0> ... ok, so does anyone here work with a network of machines?
<\sh> I think wireshark is the second source I can determine many "goto" statements..
<\sh> mok0, ask maswan ;)
<mok0> \sh: thanks
<Nafallo> \sh: pushed the fix now. will include it in the upload.
<\sh> Nafallo, cool :)
<persia> Kmos: If you're advocating a sync for bug 160456, you might also want to retitle it :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160456 in gnome-phone-manager "New upstream release 0.40" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160456
<persia> If you're just requesting an update, the upstream changelog isn't as important.
<bigon> btw only the 0.30 version is in debian
<Kmos> bigon: the debian maintainer knows about 0.40, but it's blocked by gnokki bug
<Kmos> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451401
<ubotu> Debian bug 451401 in libgnokii3-dev "gnome-phone-manager: FTBFS: No package 'gnokii' found" [Serious,Open]
<Kmos> it builds fine in gutsy =)
<Kmos> persia: i've retitled it.. :)
<persia> Kmos: Thanks.  We'll wait for 451401, and then look at the sync.
<Kmos> gnutls13 2.0.4 on debian is out
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> persia: ok.. i think that's better
<\sh> Fujitsu, added the 4 CVes fixes to edgies version..just testbuilding and attaching the debdiff to #132915
<\sh> oh wow...this changelog is insane
<\sh> Fujitsu, is pittis version of ubuntu-cve still valid?
<persia> \sh: Where are you tracking CVEs against Ubuntu?
<\sh> persia, kees has a list http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ubuntu-cve
<\sh> persia, and I'm comparing with NVD rss list
<persia> \sh: Thanks for the pointer.
<\sh> coffee and a cigarette...
<ogra> ++
 * Nafallo uploads gajim
<Lutin> gnomefreak: any change planned to gwget2 ? if not, I'll ask for a sync
 * \sh has a shower now....
<james_w> DktrKranz: http://patches.ubuntu.com/a/abraca/abraca_0.2-1ubuntu1.patch <- What exactly does that fix? There is no bug report mentioned.
<DktrKranz> james_w, it fixes FTBFS, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abraca/0.2-1
<james_w> DktrKranz: thanks.
<DktrKranz> james_w, you are welcome :)
<rexbron> lionel: Did you know that a new release of murrine is about to be released (taged in svn)?
<rexbron> lionel: As Ubuntu Studio wants to use some of the new features, would it be better to package it up ourselves or to wait for debian?
<rexbron> Actually, that last question is open
<rexbron> persia: Do you have time for a review?
<gnomefreak> Lutin: go ahead and ask for the sync im tied up with 2 other packages for now
<Lutin> gnomefreak: ok.
<gnomefreak> ty Lutin
<james_w> rexbron: you could pop over to #debian-xfce and ask Corsac what his plans are. (He's the Debian maintainer).
<rexbron> cool
<james_w> rexbron: it is on freenode.
<james_w> (unlike many #debian channels).
<pkern> Hm, is dh_iconcache intentionally lost from debhelper in Hardy?
<jpatrick> pkern: replaced by dh_icon
<pkern> So the FTBFS this is causing is intentional?
<jpatrick> yes
<pkern> Fun for breaking the API...
<\sh> pkern, hey...good afternoon...you got my mail?
<pkern> \sh: No.
<\sh> hmm...
<pkern> \sh: Sent when to grep the maillogs?
<\sh> pkern, I send it to phil at philkern.de
<pkern> \sh: envelope from at least? ;)
<pkern> Hm.
<pkern> It was maildropped...
<\sh> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:35:44 +0100
<\sh> From: Stephan Hermann <sh@sourcecode.de>
<\sh> To: phil@philkern.de
<\sh> Subject: Your key
<\sh> Message-ID: <20071116083544.39ad0d97@DT220>
<pkern> \sh: Ah... *cough* The signed key.  Yeah, I received it, thanks. (:
<\sh> *gg*
<pkern> Read, imported, forgot about it.
 * pkern ponders if the Launchpad email interface actually works.
<Kmos> pkern: yes, it works
<Kmos> https://help.launchpad.net/BugTrackerEmailInterface
<pkern> That doesn't tell me if it works, kthx.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Kmos> pkern: try it :)
<pkern> Kmos: Guess what I did.
<\sh> moins bddebian
<ogra1> pkern, the LP email interface works since over a year ... (intrestingly we dont promote that fact much)
<\sh> ogra1, because of the known issues? most people don't know what gpg is? ,-)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<ogra1> well, devs should :)
<\sh> ogra1, most people are not devs...even many sysadmins don't know how to deal with gpg...which is a shame
<\sh> ogra1, forget about us :)
<ogra1> well, i guess most people would prefer the web UI anyway :)
<DaveMorris> \sh because most sysadmins use windows ;)
<\sh> DaveMorris, well no
<pkern> ogra1: Maybe it ignores me then.
 * pkern waits a bit more for a new bug to appear on the web interface...
<\sh> pkern, which package?
<pkern> \sh: abacus.  I already increased the severity of the existing bug so the new one doesn't need to be filed, but I'm still curious why LP chose not to process my mail. ;)
<pkern> Maybe it will tell me in some hours.
<pkern> \sh: rebuild starting with a...
<ogra1> it takes a while, how long did you wait ?
<\sh> hmm...I wrote a script in former days...together with siretart to file bugs via email to malone
<\sh> where is that again?
<pkern> ogra1: 25 min, heh.
<pkern> Even debbugs is quicker nowadays. :-P
<LucidFox> Looking for one more MOTU to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kwest
<Kmos> Bug #163357
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163357 in httrack "Please merge httrack (3.42.1-1) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163357
<\sh> siretart, ping do you happen to know where our lpbugs.py is hiding?
<Kmos> \sh: ubuntu-dev-tools ?
<\sh> Kmos, hmmm
<\sh> nope
<Kmos> don't think so
<Kmos> i don't have it
<\sh> it was in former times during dapper merging I think...
<\sh> a brz archive was on tiber.tauware.de
<Kmos> isn't now at ubuntuwire.com ? :)
<\sh> I can't find it :)
<Kmos> can someone check and upload the httrack ? (it includes the debdiff)
<\sh> I wonder if we have a backup of those sources
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<geser> \sh: requestsync from ubuntu-dev-tools files the sync request per email (and is in python)
<\sh> geser, nope...
<\sh> geser, I just want the source of our old tool...:)
<geser> \sh: if nobody has a copy of it, you need to write a new one
<\sh> geser, I think there is somewhere a backup
<geser> a well hidden one?
<\sh> geser, nope..I think siretart made a backup somewhere...:)
<\sh> ok...I think I'll rest a bit....
<\sh> cu later.
 * RainCT has a question
<RainCT> I'm packaging an app that includes images that are only used by the program, images that are only for the documentation (html) and 2 or 3 images that are used by both
<RainCT> those for the website go to /usr/share/doc/<name>/html/images/ and the others go to /usr/share/games/<name>/data/
<RainCT> now the question is, should I symlink those images used by both, or patch the documentation, using an absolute path?
<RainCT> (I've to patch the docs anyways to change the images from "../data" to "./images" anyways, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem)
<geser> is the documentation and the program is the same package?
<RainCT> no, documentation is in -doc
<RainCT> I've split it into 3 packages:  lightyears, lightyears-doc and lightyears-sound
<geser> if lightgears-doc uses some images from lightgears, then it would need to depend on it to find the images
<Kmos> can someone review bug 163357 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163357 in httrack "Please merge httrack (3.42.1-1) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163357
<geser> if there are only 2 or 3 images duplicate what about shipped them in both packages to avoid a dependency?
<RainCT> geser: ok, thanks :)
<RainCT> ah and another question. I set a recommend for lightyears-sound on lightyears, and one for lightyears on lightyears-sound. is this right?
<geser> does it work without -sounds?
<RainCT> (sound isn't required, and I patched the source so that if lightyears-sound isn't installed it will only print a notice saying that it requires the -sound package, instead of the default behaviour that is printing a warning for each sound file it doesn't find)
<geser> the recommends is good
<pkern> Another email bug report send... Maybe it works this time...
<jdong>  /lastlog jdong
<jdong> siretart: thanks :)
<siretart> jdong: about xine-lib, right?
<jdong> yeah
<siretart> jdong: well, in fact, I know about exactly one package that gets borken because of this
<siretart> jdong: and that one is installing an vdr output plugin
<siretart> so perhaps we should backport that one as well
<siretart> it's not overly used, though
<geser> pkern: can you pastebin your mail?
<jdong> siretart: hmm if that plugin backports cleanly we might as well do it
<siretart> jdong: it needs a manual upload, since we need to adjust the debian/control file. libxine-vdr has very tight dependencies on the libxine package. on purpose!
<jdong> siretart: well you'd be the one capable of doing it ;-) well let's backport xine-lib first then worry about vdr?
<siretart> jdong: exactly my point. yes
<pkern> geser: http://durotan.0x539.de/~pkern/lp_bug_report
<pkern> Hm.  Maybe it wants a clearsigned message?  But how are attachments signed then...
<geser> pkern: iirc you can't attach per email
<geser> iirc lp ignores mail attachments
<pkern> Bah.
<pkern> That's *the* feature why I wanted to use email.
<pkern> How bloody annoying.
<ScottK> pkern: That's LP for you.
<pkern> ScottK: I'll go back to Debian, kthx.
<jdong> haha
<jdong> e-mail attachments would be a great feature
<geser> pkern: and the email requestsync generates are clearsigned (e.g. bug #163330)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163330 in talksoup.app "[Sync request] Please sync talksoup.app 0.0.20040113-1.1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163330
<RainCT> should game executables go to /usr/bin or /usr/games?
<minghua> yeah, bug 30225
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 30225 in malone "Attach files via email" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30225
<pkern> Is there a tool to inject files into librarian?
<geser> pkern: perhaps bughelper has a tool for it
<pkern> But LP just silently discards my mails... that sucks big time.
<geser> or apport (it even manages to attach several attachment at a time)
<pkern> It does POST requests to attach them that's right.
<jdong> siretart: hey do you think we can do another x264 sync from debian-multimedia for Hardy?
<jdong> we are on  1:0.svn20070309, d-m has newer snapshot x264_0.svn20070930-0.0.dsc
<jdong> upstream svn changelog shows a number of changesets towards faster encoder performance and better output quality
<siretart> jdong: I haven't watched x264 upstream, so I dont have a strong opinion on it
<siretart> jdong: how about uploading it to the motumedia PPA and test it there?
<jdong> siretart: sounds like a plan, I'll investigate it when I get some time
<siretart> jdong: I notice you are not in motumedia yet, shall I add you so that you can upload there?
<Kr0ntab> good morning folks...
<LaserJock> persia: still up?
<jdong> siretart: sure, that'd be nice
 * imbrandon yawns
<siretart> jdong: done
<james_w> hi siretart.
<siretart> hey james_w!
<siretart> james_w: how are you?
<james_w> siretart: good thanks, how are you?
<siretart> james_w: currently at my gf's parents, working on my personal server, fighting with vexim atm
<james_w> sounds like fun.
<james_w> thanks for trying to fix one of my bugs just by marking it fixed and using the power of your mind to make it so, but unfortunately it didn't appear to work :)
<siretart> sorry?
<siretart> in debbugs or malone?
<james_w> debbugs. You marked it in the changelog of builddeb 0.92, but I hadn't got around to fixing it yet. I've just sent the mail to unfix it.
<Nafallo> jdong: *poke* :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: one sec, in the middle of something
<Nafallo> jdong: sure, no problem :-)
<crimsun> RainCT: the latter.
 * Nafallo wonders why the heck he just read zelut as slut...
<siretart> james_w: oh, I'm sorry. that was the bug where you said the bug should be fixed in trunk, right?
<jdong> Nafallo: ok, sup? :)
<Nafallo> jdong: backport of gajim just uploaded to hardy? :-)
<jdong> Nafallo: have you filed a bug on gutsy-backports?
<Nafallo> jdong: I built it and run it on gutsy locally ;-)
<Nafallo> jdong: nope. never remember where and what to include :-P
<Nafallo> jdong: they don't do releases THAT often ;-)
<jdong> Nafallo: just on product gutsy-backports, remark version wanted, and that you've verified in a pbuilder
<imbrandon> ( and hopefully install tested etc too )
<Nafallo> jdong: kewl. I'll go and do that then :-)
<joejaxx> lol wth?
<joejaxx> patches.ubuntu.com has rss feeds? :D
<imbrandon> joejaxx: there reciently has been some hacking on patches.
<imbrandon> to add new things
<joejaxx> imbrandon: oh ok
<joejaxx> interesting
<joejaxx> then that is why there are only the current patches
<jdong> Nafallo: thanks muchly :)
<joejaxx> on the rss feeds then
<imbrandon> by-release is fairly new too
<RainCT> crimsun: well, found it 2 hours ago, but thanks anyways :P
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah i saw that on there as well
<Nafallo> jdong: #163413
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> jdong: bug 163413
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163413 in gutsy-backports "gajim_0.11.3-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163413
<Nafallo> thank you ubotu
<jdong> Nafallo: thanks
<Nafallo> jdong: thank YOU :_)
<Nafallo> :-)
<erable> Hi,
<erable> I want to backports qdevelop for Gutsy but it isn't approved
<erable> 	
<erable> It has been approved
<erable> but i had updated it
<jdong> erable: I recall that qdevelop was not packaged in Ubuntu at all
<crimsun> `rmadison -uubuntu qdevelop` returns nothing.
<erable> jdong: so, it's in REVU
<crimsun> revu is not the official current development branch
<crimsun> (it's not even a branch per se)
<erable> ok, excuse-me but I'm a new packager
<crimsun> that's fine :
<crimsun> :)  even
<erable> :) thanks
<imbrandon> the correct course from here then would be to get it uploaded to hardy then backported
<imbrandon> revu --> hardy --> gutsy-backports
<slicer> Hi. How would I find the diff.gz for a package in hardy?
<crimsun> slicer: by looking in the archive or by using launchpadlibrarian
<imbrandon> from LP it should be linked on a page similar to this for amarok https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/amarok/2:1.4.7-0ubuntu3
<imbrandon> only for what your looking for
<gnomefreak> when the ubuntu installer asks to import settings that doesnt include bookmarks and such right?
<slicer> crimsun, imbrandon: Thanks :)
<\sh> re
<crimsun> re \sh
<crimsun> the Debian Maintainers Open Beta post should be of interest to those of us who aren't in the NM/DD queue
<frenchy> quail: still there?
<crimsun> (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/11/msg00004.html)
 * imbrandon looks
<imbrandon> crimsun: wow, thanks for the link
<crimsun> given my itinerary, it'll likely take me several years to get to Debian Maintainer ;)
<imbrandon> hehe, i think i'll try that out, or atleaste apply
<imbrandon> sounds perfect for me, i dont wanna do the whome NM thing right now but i would like to keep my packages up
<proppy> crimsun: thanks for the link
<proppy> good night
<jdong> stupid question, how to turn Makefile.am -> Makefile.in?
<imbrandon> autogen.sh ?
<\sh> automake
 * jdong tries running automake, as autogen.sh didn't exist
<\sh> crimsun, cool stuff...I need to find a package which I would maintain and then ask pkern ,-)
<Nafallo> hi \sh
<\sh> re Nafallo
<Nafallo> \sh: sup? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, tired
<jdong> is automake recursive?
<\sh> ??
<jdong> or do I have to run it in the dir with the .am?
<Nafallo> \sh: :-)
<\sh> jdong, you should run it from top
<\sh> jdong, where your first Makefile.am is, and referencing to the other dirs
<\sh> jdong, autofoo tools have a good documentation
<\sh> anyways...going to bed now
<\sh> cu monday :)
<jdong> err, it's not good when running autoreconf results in a debdiff with 128 files changed, 9280 insertions(+), 25342 deletions(-)
<jdong> right?
 * jdong cries about ktorrent
<azeem> jdong: what do you patch?
<LaserJock> anybody here use some sort of apt cacher?
<LaserJock> hello azeem
<azeem> jdong: also, see what versions of autoconf/automake were used upstream
<azeem> jdong: if you use similar versions, the delta likely gets smaller
<azeem> LaserJock: hi
<jdong> azeem: ah, that might be it, I might be using a different automake compared to upstream
<jdong> azeem: well my patch just trivially removes one .cpp/.h pair from the source tree; I'll go in by hand and edit the Makefile.in file
<jdong> it's like 4 lines to change by hand
<jdong> better than spamming a gigantic delta
<crimsun> hmm, I guess I'd better merge alsa-plugins first in hardy.
<crimsun> hopefully in a few hours I'll have the prelim stack for "pulseaudio by default" uploaded
<crimsun> anyone have any thoughts regarding having /all/ ALSA-enabled apps routed through PulseAudio [via the alsa-lib pulse plugin]?
<crimsun> Fedora 8 apparently does that
<crimsun> pros: most apps will just work
<crimsun> cons: oss-only apps will still require hackery via padsp
<crimsun> cons(2): extra configuration required for specific use cases that require direct/lib-level access to the hardware
<Fujitsu> \sh_away: That's the right branch, yes. I've updated the status of all those CVEs in my branch.
<jdong> crimsun: I've got a friend who already does that for his Ubuntu setup, inspired by Fedora 8
<jdong> crimsun: he's been bugging me to do it for a week now, so I'm guessing it's working well for him :D
<crimsun> jdong: to what does "that" refer?
<jdong> crimsun: route everything through Pulse
<crimsun> ah.  yeah, that's the default Fedora 8 config.
<jdong> I think he did mention that WINE required padsp or something to work
<crimsun> hmm, considering LTS->LTS and our current uses, I'm strongly considering omitting that.  This means that we will /not/ configure the alsa-lib plugin via ~/.asoundrc.asoundrc
<crimsun> It's early enough in the 8.04 LTS dev cycle that if users seem to be enabling it en masse, we'll just put it in there
<jdong> crimsun: it shouldn't be hard to revert if some seirous problem pops up during the dev cycle, right?
<minghua> LaserJock: I use apt-proxy.  In Debian, though.
<crimsun> jdong: revert what?
<crimsun> jdong: the setting of ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf to use the alsa-lib pulse plugin?
<jdong> the pulse plugin
<crimsun> jdong: we already Recommend libasound2-plugins
<crimsun> it's the actual configuring ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf that matters here
<jdong> crimsun: oh is it configured as a per-user thing?
<crimsun> once we set a hint to have the user configure it, it's more difficult to automate /removal/ of it, which is what "reverting" it would entail
<crimsun> jdong: generally, yes.  We could provide the global /etc/asound.conf ...
<jdong> crimsun: well the simple cop-out is to call it development-version-user responsibility ;-)
<jdong> crimsun: ideally it'd be nice to have a control panel type GUI frontend to this asoundrc config option
<jdong> but that's probably quite complex
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I use apt-proxy on a Feisty server, though it occasionally does Very Bad Things, and simply doesn't work.
<crimsun> jdong: http://launchpad.net/~asoundconf-ui
<crimsun> jdong: existed for some time ;)
<jdong> crimsun: why don't I get these memos?!
<crimsun> without the tilde
<crimsun> (http://launchpad.net/asoundconf-ui)
<crimsun> GTK+2.0, Qt3, and Qt4 versions
<crimsun> (yay for duplication)
<jdong> crimsun: this is where we need KDE4 to write a toolkit abstractor, then put that on top of wxwidgets for additional abstraction!
<LaserJock> minghua and Fujitsu: either of you us apt-cacher?
<LaserJock> *use
<corenominal> hi guys
<LaserJock> I've now got 3 gutsy machines on my home network
<crimsun> jdong: for great abstraction-abstraction justice?
<LaserJock> I'd like to not waste too much bandwidth
<minghua> LaserJock: No.
<jdong> crimsun: definitely :)
<minghua> LaserJock: Actually, for a home network, I am starting to believe the best way is to share /var/cache/apt/archives/ among boxes.
<corenominal> anyone available to help with REVU queries?
<LaserJock> minghua: I was kinda wondering about that
<LaserJock> though not as a share, but me rsyncing
<LaserJock> I'd have to think about the best way to share that
<minghua> Well, if disk space is never a problem, rsync works, too.
<LaserJock> I've not used NFS or samba before
<LaserJock> nah, I don't think diskspace is an issue
<LaserJock> as long as I clean up old stuff
<minghua> You won't have much old stuff to clean if you stay at gutsy, I think.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I should also do the same for pbuilder cache
<LaserJock> I've wondered before, if pointing Debian and Ubuntu pbuilders to the same apt cache is ok
<minghua> You haven't used APTCACHE for pbuilder yet?
<minghua> LaserJock: I don't think so.  But it's trivial to separate the caches, so I don't see why you would want to do that.
<LaserJock> I think all of my pbuilders pull from the same dir
<LaserJock> I never set APTCACHE
<minghua> Hmm.  I remember the default behavior is not caching anything.
<jussi01> minghua: IIRC, pbuilder default is to cache in /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache/ ?
<minghua> jussi01: It's very possible I am remembering wrong.
<jdong> minghua: no, default behavior is to save in /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache
<jdong> but via a hardlink
<jdong> so of course if that's on a different fs then /builds it won't cache anything ;-)
<minghua> jdong: Good to know.  Thanks.
<jdong> no problem
<minghua> It's very unlikely that build/ and aptcache/ will be on different partitions.
<jdong> minghua: true, unless you're a maniac like me. I love to mount tmpfs on build/
<minghua> Heh.
<jdong> it really miraculously speeds up the process of small package builds
<minghua> jdong: Which is faster, LVM snapshot or tmpfs?
<minghua> ...or can you use LVM snapshot on a tmpfs too?
<jdong> minghua: haha I'm not sure. IF the build fits into RAM or close to fitting, I can't imagine anything faster than tmpfs
<jdong> minghua: but lvm snapshot is good too, as it prevents repetitive building from wearing/fragmenting your /var fs
<minghua> jdong: But you still need to decompress the tarball even if you use tmpfs, don't you?
<minghua> I was under the impression that LVM snapshot is much faster than decompressing tarballs.
<jdong> minghua: yes, which will take $time_to_read_80MB
<jdong> minghua: which is probably <5s on most modern hardware. it's the writing out the decompressed contents part that takes bloody forever
<minghua> Hmm, makes sense.
<crimsun> success!
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah?
<crimsun> </random>
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> it's getting annoying have two gmail accounts for one computer
<tonyyarusso> so just forward one
<LaserJock> one is my wife's
<LaserJock> I don't want to get all her stuff
<LaserJock> I hadn't thought about how annoying that would be
<tonyyarusso> oh
<tonyyarusso> wait, why is this annoying?
<LaserJock> cause I have to sign out of mine every time she wants to look at her email
<minghua> LaserJock: Use a decent MUA. :-)
<LaserJock> then I've got to sign back in
<LaserJock> I'm used to just having gmail open 24x7
<crimsun> err, don't you two have separate user accounts?
<LaserJock> crimsun: no
 * tonyyarusso is with crimsun ...
<tonyyarusso> why not?
<LaserJock> I tried that once
<LaserJock> didn't really work
<tonyyarusso> how so?
<minghua> LaserJock: Use two browser profiles.
<crimsun> eh?  I have three different accounts just for me.
<LaserJock> cause then it was me having to log out for her to log in
<tonyyarusso> then you'd have the fast user switch thing to your advantage
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure I want to do fast user switching
<minghua> (No, that wouldn't work either...)
<LaserJock> it might work though
<tonyyarusso> Or you could have one of you use epiphany and one firefox, etc.
<LaserJock> crimsun: heh, I've only ever used one account on my computers, Windows, OS X, and Linux
<crimsun> an unprivileged one for Ubuntu development, an privileged one for administration, and another for package testing
<crimsun> (the last is unprivileged)
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<crimsun> I've been doing Leopard's "unprivileged Guest account that gets wiped - sort of" for ages - and I'm definitely not the first ;)
<LaserJock> it never ceases to amaze me how little I actually use my computer :(
<geser> LaserJock: have you looked at https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/3255 ?
<LaserJock> something like that
<LaserJock> and it was more complicated
<LaserJock> than just logging out
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-18
<blueyed> Where's the source for ubuntu-dev-tools? It says "XS-Vcs-Bzr: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/", but that's not a branch.
<crimsun> there are several branches.
<jdong> blueyed: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/
<crimsun> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk
<jdong> look under the Code tag
<jdong> tab*
<Fujitsu> blueyed: That is a branch.
<jdong> blueyed: and as Fujitsu said, if you branch that URL you will get the trunk.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/"
<Fujitsu> blueyed: That's very off.
<blueyed> And I've only looked for the Code tab at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools. Thanks everybody.. :)
<Fujitsu> *odd
<jdong> No revision control details recorded for trunk.
<jdong> hmm is trunk set as the trunk? :D
<blueyed> LaserJock: you could also use prism, to handle gmail just like an app. One for you and one for your wife.
<blueyed> LaserJock: http://labs.mozilla.com/2007/11/prism-prototype-now-available-on-mac-and-linux/
<Fujitsu> jdong: Now it is.
<blueyed> But the point is still valid, that the Vcs-Bzr field is wrong, isn't it?
<jdong> Fujitsu: nicely done
<Fujitsu> blueyed: Try again.
<jdong> blueyed: it works now
<Fujitsu> I think it should be OK now.
<jdong> blueyed: it was an oversight on the product's configuration in LP
<Fujitsu> jdong: They're projects now.
<blueyed> yes, it works. Thanks.
<jdong> Fujitsu: lol stupid nomenclature
<jdong> projects, products.... blah.
<LaserJock> blueyed: yeah I did think about that
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you did the upstream watch script right?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I was just thinking that Daniel Liedert wrote a perl script for Debichem to do a weekly watch file check
<persia> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> not sure if you'd find that interesting or not
<LaserJock> persia: hi, how did the session go?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Well, I stole the majority of the code from Debian.
<persia> crimsun: I like pulseaudio by default, but please make it easy for jack to not use pulse.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: alright, I just thought about it when I saw the weekly report for Debichem
<persia> LaserJock: quiet in the beginning, and very exciting at the end.  Unfortunately, we didn't fix any bugs, but we did get good triage for two of the three we examined.
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> how long did it go/
<LaserJock> ?
<persia> LaserJock: About two hours
<LaserJock> that's what I was guessing
<LaserJock> I know I can never get anywhere in 1 hr
<persia> Actually, we finished triage on one bug in an hour (which I think it about normal).  And the other two were only ~30 minutes each (but in neither case did we find the actual problem: one was against the wrong package, and the other was very confusing code).
<crimsun> persia: pasuspend work is higher priority for me than repromoting jack-audio-connection-kit into Ubuntu main.
<pkern> \sh_away: haha.
<persia> crimsun: I'm not sure jack belongs in main until ffado (freebob replacement) is more stable.  On the other hand, I use jack (as do others), so I want to make sure that calling `jackd -dalsa -dhw:0` (or similar) won't get trapped by pulseaudio.  (whereas, I'd expect "default" to go into pulse).
<persia> So, pcm.default -> pcm.pulse but pcm.hw wouldn't be trapped.
<crimsun> persia: I don't intend to push "pulse alsa-lib plugin enabled via soundrc" onto users.
<crimsun> asoundrc*
<persia> crimsun: Ah.  Nevermind then.  I misunderstood.
<crimsun> I outlined in #ubuntu+1 the more conservative approach of polling users to see if a significant userbase on the forums, mailing lists, and irc end up using pcm.pulse, and if so, some hackery will be done to enable that.
 * persia reads logs
<crimsun> if that, in fact, is the case, we can begin to whitelist apps to pasuspend, like jackd and/or qjackctl
<crimsun> (skype being another)
<persia> crimsun: A whitelist sounds like the solution I sought: you're way ahead of me.
 * pkern is getting sick of LP.  My other clearsigned email without attachments was ignored, too.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Are you sending it from a registered email address?
<Fujitsu> (attachments will just get dropped - the message will be unaffected)
<pkern> pkern@ubuntu.com...
<pkern> Which is of course not added... Gah.
<pkern> Maybe another one will work...
<persia> pkern: You might try just adding it.  Mine didn't work for a very long time until I told LP about it.
<pkern> Is `sending it from a registered email address' talking about envelope-from or the from header?
<pkern> If it forces me to fake my envelope from that would suck.
<pkern> Well now it worked, thank you Fujitsu.
<pkern> Yay for the build log in the description.
<minghua> I think it's "From:" header.
<Fujitsu> It's the From header.
<pkern> Now I also get request failures, fine.
<Fujitsu> pkern: You need to sign messages if they're changing things.
<pkern> Fujitsu: I do now clearsign them, albeit I would normally use PGP/MIME.
<pkern> Filing seems to work now.
 * pkern passed some rebuilding to his desktop machine this afternoon (http://ka.philkern.de:9998/dist/hardy/arch/i386)
<chillywilly> OOo seems to crash for me and I've been searching bugs and I don't see it
<chillywilly> how can I tell which repo a package was installed from?
<TheSheep> "seems to crash"? how does it look?
<chillywilly> it dumps core
<chillywilly> danielb@frodo:~$ ooffice
<chillywilly> Bus error (core dumped)
<chillywilly> ** (process:9746): WARNING **: Unknown error forking main binary / abnormal early exit ...
<chillywilly> 2.3 is the version in gutsy, right?
<TheSheep> !info openoffice.org
<ubotu> openoffice.org: OpenOffice.org Office suite. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.3.0-1ubuntu5 (gutsy), package size 4 kB, installed size 44 kB
<Fujitsu> pkern: Oh dear. You're putting the entire build log in the description?
<Fujitsu> Can't you link to it or something?
<pkern> Fujitsu: I would have made an attachment, and no I can't, yet.
<pkern> But you see... LP would discard attachments.
<persia> pkern: You might want to look at python-launchpad-bugs.  Also, attachments are never allowed in the first entry: only in comments.
<Fujitsu> LP is useless, right. But what is often done is sticking a link in the description.
<Fujitsu> persia: Apport does this sort of thing well, but it is black proprietary specific LP magic.
<pkern> Fujitsu: ACK.
<persia> Fujitsu: So just copying the apport code isn't sufficient?
<Fujitsu> persia: I think the LP implementation is currently apport-specific, but I'll check.
<Fujitsu> Er, why is there a Fedora backend implementation in Apport!?
<persia> Fujitsu: Why not?  Should apport be distro-specific?
<Fujitsu> I hadn't heard anything about it being used elsewhere, and would have thought there would have been a lot of NIH associated with it.
<Fujitsu> Hm, looks like the blob storage capability might actually be usable by everyone, just not documented anywhere.
<persia>  Fujitsu: regarding NIH, you're forgetting the master plan :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Which master plan?
<persia> For blob storage, I thought I remember it being general: it's just undocumented.
<persia> Fujitsu: Good point.  The LP takes over the world master plan.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Right, using python-launchpad-bugs you upload a MIME blob (with an inline component being appended to the description, and attachments being attached), and get the URL back. Why isn't this documented anywhere?
<LaserJock> persia: thanks
<codemaste1> I have just made an Ubuntu package for multiget (to fix bug #163276) and I would like to find a sponsor to check it and help me uploading to ubuntu repository
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163276 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]multiget " [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163276
<codemaste1> multiget is a GUI-based multi-thread downloader with publish support.  a good replacement for the broken d4x
<codemaste1> and I would really like to see multiget to be the default mass downloader in ubuntu desktop
<persia> codemaste1: Thanks for your package.  The next REVU day starts in just short of 7 hours, so this tends to be a quiet time for REVU.  I'd suggest you get the package in for hardy, and write a spec to make it default for hardy+1: fast transitions are hard to manage smoothly.
<codemaste1> persia, are you willing to sponser multiget?  If so, may I email the package to you?
<persia> codemaste1: I have no idea if I'm willing to sponsor yet.  If it's on REVU, there's a good chance I'll review it during REVU day.  If it already has an advocate when I review it, and I don't encounter any issues, I may well sponsor (but it's a very rare package for which I don't encounter issues).
<bddebian> pfft REVU ;-P
<bddebian> persia: You're supposed to be fixing scorched3d ;-P
<codemaste1> how can I put my package onto REVU?
<codemaste1> I already have an account on launchpad.net although I am not yet a member of any teams.
<persia> bddebian: That's currently 4th on my list (which is why I'm not REVUing now).
<bddebian> heh
<persia> codemaste1: You'll need to join the contributors team.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU for details, and more generally, look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some guidelines on making sure your package gets through REVU smoothly.
 * persia quivers in fear
<Hobbsee> Mez: are you actually here?
<Hobbsee> persia: now fix the soundfonts bug :)
 * Fujitsu cowers in the corner.
<persia> Hobbsee: Is that still bug #45852, or did you make a new one?  I can't find it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45852 in baltix "Default Ubuntu desktop can't play midi files (not Kubuntu)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45852
<Hobbsee> persia: havent made a new one
 * jdong tries to figure out what he did now
<jdong> aww poor guy
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Hobbsee> ban didnt work, i see.
<persia> Mez is special
<jdong> HAHAHA
<jdong> Hobbsee: probably work better if you do him by ircname
<Hobbsee> jdong: there's a thought.
<Hobbsee> odd.
<Hobbsee> weird, it worked on -devel
<Fujitsu> Hm, might he have the ban-evasion level here?
<jdong> Hobbsee: seems like he is identifying after a few channels are joined
<jdong> i.e. his client's flaking/flooding :)
<gnomefreak> anyone alive i have a question of lintian error
<gnomefreak> W: iceape source: binary-nmu-debian-revision-in-source 1.1.6-1ubuntu0.7.10
<gnomefreak> the source package seems to be correct, maybe i should drop debian's -1 since i didnt get anything from debian
<gnomefreak> The version number of your source package ends in +b and a number or
<gnomefreak> N:   has a Debian revision containing three parts.
<gnomefreak> is the really confusing part or warning
<persia> gnomefreak: Are you based on Debian 1.1.6-1 ?
<gnomefreak> persia: not really i stopped geting stuff from debian a long time ago since mine is normall done first
<gnomefreak> but i did it for 1.1.5-1 still not using debian at all
<gnomefreak> where is the developers refference guide? it gives me a section on it
<Hobbsee> jdong: indeed.
<persia> gnomefreak: Well, the revision number looks sane, although I think I'd prefer 1.1.6-0ubuntu0.1 for gutsy-proposed, and 1.1.6-2ubuntu1 for an upload to hardy if you are using Debian input, or 1.1.6-0ubuntu1 if you are not using Debian input.  I suggest the former: even if you don't use the patches, processing as a merge keeps it from showing on the merge list.
<gnomefreak> persia: will that get rid of the warning above about binaries?
 * persia looks at lintian
<gnomefreak> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/iceape-0711172100/lintian
<persia> gnomefreak: coincidentally, yes.  The check is to see if there are two '.' characters in the revision number.  My suggestion would still trigger it for something like 1.1.6-2.1ubuntu3.2 (2nd SRU of 3rd Ubuntu revision from 1st NMU of 2nd Debian revision).
<gnomefreak> last time i got that was with sunbird but was due to wrong orig.tar.gz name i used - instead of _
<persia> gnomefreak: The critical part is whether the revision matches the regex /^-[^.-]+\.[^.-]+\./
<gnomefreak> persia: not sure what you mean name it iceape_1.1.6-1ubuntu1.7.10
<persia> gnomefreak: Don't use foo.7.10 and you don't get so many '.' characters, so it doesn't complain.
<gnomefreak> than how would i name it for gutsy? atm 1.1.5-1ubuntu1.7.10 is in gutsy atm i dont remember getting errors on it
<LaserJock> persia: the .7.10 versioning seems to be used quite a bit by asac
<persia> Also, I'd recommend 1.1.6-0ubuntu0.1 meaning initial Ubuntu packaging (not from Debian) with initial upload for SRU (not previously released).  That way, 1.1.6-0ubuntu1 is larger, so upgrades to hardy go smoothly.
<persia> LaserJock: True, but it triggers lintian.  Doesn't really matter.
<gnomefreak> iceape wont upgrade to hardy we are using seamonkey in hardy
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  What happens for users that have iceape installed?  Will there not be a transition package?
<gnomefreak> persia: we might try to get an upgrade for them but this was against my opinion i wanted to keep iceape until sm2 was released but my thought didnt matter i guess
<persia> gnomefreak: I don't know the history, but my opinion is that if there is an iceape package released in 7.10 or 6.06, hardy needs an "iceape" package.  This "iceape" is permitted to be a meta-package depending on something else, but not having anything named "iceape" means users lose support silently.
<gnomefreak> persia: again i was against the change but i already spoke up but since the paid maintainer gets final say
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm not sure it matters if people get paid or not.  There's no reason there can't be a universe transition package to support a broken upgrade path.  You might also want to touch someone in QA.
<gnomefreak> persia: we might make it like that but that is not my concern atm
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  If you just want to shut lintian up, use less '.' characters in your version.
<LaserJock> or ignore lintian
<persia> Right.
<gnomefreak> less ther eis only one -
<StevenK> Or complain about MOTU.
<StevenK> Oh, wait.
<LaserJock> haha
<gnomefreak> so taht isnt something that will stop it from being pushed?
<gnomefreak> s/taht/that
<persia> gnomefreak: Not likely, if it's a good SRU.  There's lots of packages that use that versioning scheme.  The larger issue is that new upstream versions require special exceptions for SRU.
 * Fujitsu wonders why this isn't having patches backportee.
<Fujitsu> *backported
<Fujitsu> Oh, Mozilla. Right.
<Fujitsu> Run away!
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> anybody know if you can just dump a git branch on a web host like you can with bzr?
<jdong> Rule 4 for keeping jdong happy: Things should build within an hour on a core 2 duo :)
<jdong> LaserJock: I'm pretty sure git can't be served over http?
<persia> LaserJock: I believe you can: it's just files.
<gnomefreak> well i gave him links so maybe ill get lucky and get them pushed (none of my packages in last month or 2 have been uploaded since noone ever has time to do it and alot of motus are scared of mozilla and dont test it IMHO
<jdong> LaserJock: never mind, it works
<jdong> it's just really mean to do because it's slower than bzr 0.11  *ducks*
<LaserJock> right
<persia> LaserJock: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/howto/setup-git-server-over-http.txt might be interesting...
<StevenK> Dear.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Is that possible?
<jdong> Fujitsu: it's an extremely talented achievement, but can be done if Linus puts his mind to it!
<Amaranth> slower than bzr?
<bddebian> hah
<mwolson> LaserJock: yes, it is possible to just dump a git branch on a web host.  i've done it
<mwolson> just remember to chmod +x .git/hooks/post-update, and when cloning, use path to .git directory rather than the working directory
<jdong> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<jdong> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<jdong> *SNIFF*
<jdong> do the buildd's perform the above check?
<Fujitsu> jdong: No.
<jdong> backporting mplayer from Hardy -> Feisty, and pdebuild pukes on that
<Fujitsu> unset DEBMAIL
<persia> Hmm..  schroot seems to have lost my hardy chroot.  It appears in lvs output, but doesn't show in /dev/data00/  Anyone have a pointer to something to check?
<Fujitsu> persia: Are there any broken snapshots of it?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, one.
<Fujitsu> persia: Try removing it, and if it doesn't come back `lvchange -a y' it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Now, why would a broken snapshot cause the source to be hidden?
<Fujitsu> persia: It may decide that it's better not render the snapshot useless.
<Fujitsu> Was the snapshot full?
<persia> Fujitsu: likely.  It was my working area for testing hardy, and I kept not syncing, while installing lots of packages.  I should probably have created another real chroot for that.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they don't?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They don't what?
<Hobbsee> [15:24] <jdong> do the buildd's perform the above check?
<Hobbsee> [15:25] <Fujitsu> jdong: No.
 * Hobbsee thought htey did.
<Hobbsee> or maybe they turned that off.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: They don't die if you don't comply.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<persia> Hobbsee: They do mangle the maintainer for the binary packages though.
<Hobbsee> ah right.
<Fujitsu> persia: That would be it, though I thought the kernel would mark the snapshot as broken and useless by default.
 * Hobbsee notes that that's really...non-sense making?
<LaserJock> it's a warning though?
<jdong> LaserJock: on Feisty it's a hard abort
<Hobbsee> yeah, it's a warning
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: No, it kills the debuild locally.
<LaserJock> it's a warning on the buildds, but kills locally?
<persia> Hobbsee: Every binary has an Ubuntu maintainer, as it's Ubuntu built, and Ubuntu originated.  We don't mangle source inputs, as that's too much work, but we are supposed to change them for compile.  There's still some packages that haven't been touched in ages that don't comply with the Debian Maintainer Field check.
<Hobbsee> persia: which then got rebuilt in gutsy, i thought
<persia> Fujitsu: It probably should have done so: I wonder why it let me get away with it for so long.
<persia> Hobbsee: No, in gutsy I identified a few hundred packages that failed the test, and didn't see enough changelog entries to indicate they were all fixed.  I haven't run tests for hardy yet.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Fujitsu> persia: pitti ran through the remaining modified sources in late Gutsy, updating the maintainer field.
<Hobbsee> maybe it was all the packages that we touched somewhere along the point
<Hobbsee> yeah, modified would be it
<persia> Fujitsu: All of them?
<Fujitsu> persia: As far as I know.
<persia> Maybe everything in main.  I still see 312 binary packages that don't comply in hardy today.  Looking for source packages now...
<Fujitsu> I saw some universe ones.
<persia> 285 source packages in main don't meet the test.
<Hobbsee> and how many of those are changed by ubuntu at all?
<persia> Err..  Nevermind.  I'm testing the wrong thing.  Let me rerun...
<persia> OK.  for hardy/i386 102 source packages in main and 258 source packages in universe don't have *ubuntu* in the maintainer field and do have *ubuntu* in the version field.
<persia> (right now)
<Hobbsee> weird
<persia> Hobbsee: Work in progress.
<Hobbsee> must be
<LaserJock> persia: can you tell if those are just old packages that havent' been uploaded recently?
<persia> LaserJock: Not with my current script: I'd need to extract more.
<persia> Further, I don't consider it a big issue at this point in the cycle: after DIF, I'd consider them all targets for update, regardless of whether they are new or old.
 * Fujitsu convinces LaserJock to do some security stuff.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do you think http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html should be listed as a QA target?
 * Hobbsee convinces Fujitsu to fix the world.
<Fujitsu> persia: persia You mean ~pitti?
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> I can't see that under ~kees...
<persia> Fujitsu: This is part of why I ask: I don't know which is correct, and don't want to push the wrong place.
<Fujitsu> persia: ~pitti is the authoritative branch.
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  I'll add a link to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html then.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> (I've gone through almost 100 CVEs from that tracker over the past couple of days working out what is actually needed where)
<persia> Fujitsu: which tracker?
<Fujitsu> persia: ubuntu-cve.
<Fujitsu> (see ~pitti/bzr/ubuntu-cve)
<keescook> persia: the "unfixed.html" stuff is out of date (since Sep)
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<keescook> I'll be providing some new stuff to replace it next week (I'm hoping)
<Fujitsu> Hi keescook.
<keescook> hiya!  (just passing through before dinner...)
<Fujitsu> keescook: Isn't it a bit late for dinner?
<persia> keescook: Ah.  Great.  I'll wait then.  Please ping me when there's a nice external interface to a list of things that need doing, and I'll add it to the QA list.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what are you wanting me to do? :-)
<keescook> persia: okay, sounds good.  I really should have something by Tue or so
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Erm, work through the 998 or so open universe CVEs.
<LaserJock> ah
<persia> keescook: No big rush: I'd rather good than fast.  It's still a couple weeks before mass-publicity for the QA stuff.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'll put it on my list ;-)
<Fujitsu> keescook: Is there a timeframe for moving that branch to LP?
<LaserJock> I have a dissertation to do, colloquia presentation on Tuesday to start, gcompris merge to do, then maybe we'll see
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ouch.
<LaserJock> plus it's my birthday tomorrow :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: define tomorrow?
 * persia takes advantage of timezone skew to wish LaserJock happy birthday today.
 * Fujitsu wraps up a block of CVEs for LaserJock.
<Hobbsee> okay, happy birthday then!
<LaserJock> 18th, today for you
<Hobbsee> persia: me too :)
<Fujitsu> Slightly preemptive happy birthday!
<jdong> do we have any automagical tool for detecting when the API/ABI of a library changes?
<LaserJock> that'd be interesting
<LaserJock> how would you tell?
<persia> jdong: Not really.  It's supposed to be linked to SONAME, but not every upstream complies.
<persia> LaserJock: You could export the symbol map from the library, and check for significant changes.
<jdong> LaserJock: so far it's been an exaustive try every reverse-depped package thrrouhg all usecases
<jdong> LaserJock: I was wondering at least for C library API's if we can scan through their header files for prototype differences
<LaserJock> persia: can API/ABI be easily be unintentially broken?
<LaserJock> I was wondering how developers know
<persia> jdong: At a simple level (read backports), the binary package name is supposed to be updated when the API/ABI changes to support transitions.
<persia> LaserJock: Yes: just add a new function, or change a function prototype.
<jdong> persia: in practice how often is that done though?
<jdong> persia: I recall a libgpod update not bumping solib but causing its rdepends to segfault 2 release cycles ago
<jdong> persia: I used to assume that same package name = still compatible...
<LaserJock> persia: a new function would count? or changing an existing function?
<persia> jdong: I've only seen about 5 cases where it wasn't for normal shared libraries.  Private libraries using wrappers are different.
<persia> LaserJock: Both are changes, but only the change is incompatible.  ABI can also change due to changes in the build tools.
<persia> Err.  That doesn't parse.  Adding a new function makes a different API/ABI, but it can be a compatible API/ABI.
<persia> Changing a function definition usually results in an incompatible API.
<jdong> persia: what results in incompatible ABI for C/C++ libraries?
<jdong> apart from build tools
<LaserJock> persia: ahh, so when you have an incompatible API/ABI you should change the SONAME
<persia> jdong: Ignoring build tools, it has to do with how the symbols are exported.  If a symbol name changes, or the same name does a different thing, that's incompatible.  If there are just more symbols, that's compatible.
<persia> LaserJock: exactly.
<persia> (symbols disappearing is also incompatible)
<jdong> persia: ok, cool, that's good to know. Wow today was an educational day :)
<LaserJock> persia: so what are symbols again?
<persia> jdong: Just to make it more fun, when the ABI changes, but the API is stable, a backport should just work.  If the API changes, the backport should FTBFS.
<LaserJock> the list of function?
<persia> LaserJock: functions, constants, etc.  Things that the library exports.
<LaserJock> ah, so lots of stuff
<LaserJock> k
<jdong> persia: so if I were bold enough to attempt/evaluate a library backport, what would be a good procedure to assessing compatibility?
<jdong> I'm guessing at least a before/after symbol dump
<jdong> possibly recompiling all the reverse deps if it seems like symbols got removed?
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Everything that the client application might want to use.  Internal implementations are different.  That's part of why it's a bad idea to write code that works but doesn't match the published public headers: there's no guarantee that it will keep working, even for a "stable" ABI.
<persia> jdong: before/after dump with analysis should be enough.  If there is a change, all rdepends need a recompile.
<persia> jdong: Remember, you don't just want to make sure the symbols have the same name, but that they mean the same thing.  If the semantics change, the clients may need recompile or porting.
<persia> Err.  "...want to just make sure..."
<jdong> persia: sounds logical
<persia> jdong: On another note, why would you want a library backport?
<LaserJock> I've been thinking about doing one
<LaserJock> but it's got a lot more deps than I want to take care of
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  What new fancy feature does a library provide that would be user-visible?
<LaserJock> umm, because the app I want to backport needs newer libs
<jdong> persia: usually it would only be for pulling in a backport that requires a newer library
<jdong> persia: for pairs like libtorrent/rtorrent where the latter is the only rdep of the former, I usually just let it slide if it's backported in a pair
<LaserJock> I want gchemutils and it requires at least the goffice/openbabel versions in gutsy
<persia> OK.  If an app being backported requires newer libraries, that's almost certainly a case of ABI incompatibility.  Hardly even need to check.
<jdong> persia: would a newer library release that only adds new symbols cause ABI incompatibility?
<persia> jdong: Where there's only one client, that makes sense.
<persia> jdong: If it's only adding symbols it can be compatible: I guess I'm thinking of the case where the client wants a new package name, and not the case where it just needs a newer version with the same package name.  Nevermind.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I know, the have different SONAMEs and now in Debian new package names so we can have multiple versions of goffice
<LaserJock> that's why I'm not eager to backport it
<LaserJock> anybody know if there is a way to do like an apt-get autoclean for pbuilder apt caches?
<tonyyarusso> other than rm?
<LaserJock> yeah, I want like autoclean
<LaserJock> so look at what pbuilder would actually use
<tonyyarusso> not pbuilder clean though?
<jdong> LaserJock: how do you know what pbuilder would actually use?
<LaserJock> from the current pbuilders apt caches
<jdong> LaserJock: probably your best bet is to use python or something to look for duplicate package names, then delete the older one
<jdong> LaserJock: autoclean simply removes files not referenced in any of your package lists, which would be essentially the same thing
<LaserJock> yeah, although if I have a dapper, gutsy, and hardy pbuilders
<jdong> oh
<LaserJock> right
<jdong> that's a lot more complex then
<LaserJock> maybe I shouldn't worry about that case
<persia> Does anyone have a good suggestion for how to submit a sponsorable diff for a bug when it requires modification of a binary file?  (native package)
<jdong> I think some creative use of madison ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm
<jdong> persia: :-/ I've always just submitted the entire source package
<persia> jdong: As a sponsor, I don't like to receive that, but I can see the point.
<LaserJock> if it's a  single file I'd take just the file
<jdong> persia: well a debdiff cannot represent the change... I guess there's otherways you can coordinate
<jdong> this seems like a good one-case exception to receive an entire soruce package with explanation of what changed
<persia> LaserJock: There's actually a bunch of other changes as well.  Essentially, this package has tar.gz files for test cases for the test rule, and the test cases need to be altered to match the source changes.
<LaserJock> I would probably just do the whole source package
<Hobbsee> persia: "uencode it" is coming to mind.  but, i dont know.
<jdong> persia: wow, that'd be a pain to review :(
<persia> jdong: Perhaps you're right.  I'll try it that way, although I'll also add the patches to make my sponsor's life easy.
<Hobbsee> kinda hard to review a binary blob
<persia> Hobbsee: Were it not native, I'd agree with uuencode.  In this case, it's a tar.gz in a native package, and uudecoding in debian/rules just seems needless cruft.  Since the package gets tar.gz'd anyway, I'm not sure why the author tar.gz'd the test cases.
<jdong> persia: it does seem like a foolish decision of upstream to package this way
<persia> jdong: Native - no upstream :)
<jdong> persia: can't you slap the guy to repackage his source then?
<persia> jdong: No.  He's busy doing lots of other things I want to see done.
<jdong> ah
<LaserJock> persia: what package?
<persia> LaserJock: I won't mention it, as I don't want to shame the maintainer.
<Hobbsee> please tell me it's not enigmail
<Hobbsee> or something mozilla-related.
<Hobbsee> they like doing crack like that.
<Fujitsu> Mozilla does all sorts of crack.
<persia> Mozilla is crack.  I want more.
<LaserJock> dang it, I hate it when printing just stops working
<jdong> LaserJock: you have no right to complain about printing to me!
<LaserJock> sorry
<jdong> LaserJock: you don't have to deal with kerberos authenticated lpr printers!
<LaserJock> I just always find it weird with things *did* work and just mysteriously stop
<jdong> :)
<StevenK> LaserJock: It's what printers do. Their primary function isn't to put ink/toner on dead trees, it's to fail mysteriously and make you spend half a day fixing them
<Hobbsee> hum.  blender be broken.
<persia> Hobbsee: Generally :)
 * Hobbsee does not like blender broken
<Hobbsee> oh, it's hte desktop effects stuff
<Hobbsee> persia: i take it your a blender hater?
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd like to like it, but I find that my AutoCAD knowledge translates poorly, the interface is annoying, and the documentation is weak.  Further, it just hasn't run ~ 40% of the times I've tried it (not that my system is known for stability or anything)
<StevenK> I'd try blender, but I have nothing to draw
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah....the documentation is crap
<Hobbsee> it's not so bad once you actually learn it though - it's the learning part that's the problem!
<Hobbsee> works fine on kubuntu.  falls over on ubuntu
<persia> Hobbsee: If it weren't for the crashing part, I suspect I'd agree with you :)
<Fujitsu> My brother got a bit annoyed that he can't run Blender and Compiz at the same and edit the massive models he often does.
<Hobbsee> appears to b ea dri problem
<persia> Hobbsee: More specifically, it's a problem with the GUI architecture, we've four different layers, and each application targets differently.  As a result, it's really hard for the rendering drivers to do the right thing.
<Hobbsee> tasty.
<persia> Same problem as for sound, but at least sound is getting sane: we should be down to three layers soon, and lots of people are looking for a good solution.  With visuals, it's still a matter of each app on their own, although compiz may help with this over time.
<Hobbsee> persia: why would a package have 2 soname versions?
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ dpkg -S libGL.so.1
<Hobbsee> libgl1-mesa-glx: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
<Hobbsee> libgl1-mesa-glx: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2
<persia> Hobbsee: I believe libGL.so.1 is likely a link to libGL.so.1.2.  This might be to support the swapping about involved in handling the special libGL implementations for different hardware.
<Hobbsee> persia: you win.
<persia> Hobbsee: What were we playing, and what were the stakes?
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> as in, you're correct
<Hobbsee> you win a pony
 * Hobbsee pokes LaserJock
<StevenK> Ponies!
<LaserJock> I got them started
<StevenK> How much work to finish them off?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> I'm having a harder time getting into the "creative mood" this time
<StevenK> I'm sure somone's Long Pointy Stick could help
 * StevenK hides
<LaserJock> oh don't worry, that's the first one to be done ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
 * Hobbsee uploads blender, and hopes that it works.
<Hobbsee> does on kubuntu, or did last time i checked.
<Hobbsee> who needs this gnome thing, anyway?
<StevenK> You, actually
 * Hobbsee still has a kubuntu cd
<persia> Hobbsee: You might also try it with compiz disabled: if fixed, it may well work on top of metacity.
<Hobbsee> persia: it doesnt seem to work with metacity - the old version, anyway
<persia> Hobbsee: Right then.  How hard is it to make KDE look like Mac OS 9 again?
<StevenK> persia: Hard?
<Hobbsee> persia: no idea.  probably not that bad.
<Hobbsee> easier than gnome, i expect
<persia> StevenK: Well, I like my menus at the top, and my icons on the desktop: I've been fully seduced away from twm, but I'm finding I use more and more Qt apps, and would like to use blender, so perhaps I'll shift (as compiz just completely breaks for me)
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, for gnome, it's mostly just sticking the menubar on top, and flicking a couple gconf switches.  I'll have to go look at KDE again (haven't tried it since 2001 or so)
<Hobbsee> right
<LaserJock> I've gotta have a Windows style bar until gnome decides to allow locking of panels
<Amaranth> persia: it's easier to make KDE look like OS 9 than GNOME
<jdong> TheMuso: can you clarify on your comment on bug #160403? I've definitely seen archive managers sync stuff from debian-multimedia
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160403 in gpac "Please sync gpac 0.4.4-0.3 from debian-multimedia.org unstable" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160403
<Amaranth> persia: because in KDE you can do the menu-on-panel thing
<jdong> and newer gpac is a good idea for Hardy
<persia> Amaranth: That sounds better than having the double-menu bit in the upper left.  Thanks.
<Amaranth> there is a patch to do it for GTK but it's outdated
 * Hobbsee changes her mind, and throws it at a ppa instead.
<Amaranth> and the panel applet to go with it was horrid
<persia> jdong: It's not automated: an archive admin has to manually download it, and manually upload it, after manually tweaking the .changes file.  There's some support scripts, but they're not all the way yet.  I believe it's currently preferred to treat non-Debian sources as new Ubuntu uploads, rather than sync candidates.
<jdong> persia: oh okay, that's fine too. I guess I'll go towards a motumedia PPA -> Hardy approach with it then :)
<jdong> persia: tomorrow may be the day of my multimedia burnout :)
<persia> jdong: That's likely faster.  You might also check with the archive admins: if they prefer the manual sync to a fresh upload, so as to track Origin properly, then this bug oughtn't be "Invalid".
<persia> jdong: Also, are you still working on bug #145508, or is that ready for sponsoring?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145508 in z88dk "[TEST] z88dk has a test bug open" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145508
<persia> Err.  Bug #145506
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145506 in gtkpod-aac "gtkpod-aac does not allow adding local tracks, claims iPod is not loaded (gutsy)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145506
<jdong> persia: ok, I've assigned the bug to myself and asking archive admin is on my todo list
<jdong> persia: that debdiff is good for uploading into Hardy
<persia> jdong: OK.  Remember to adjust the Status / Assignment next time :)
<jdong> persia: okay, do you prefer it assigned to uus? and what status should I use?
<persia> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<jdong> persia: ah yes, it's documented in black and light brown. Shame on me for not reading it :)
<jdong> I'll use the right statuses from now on
<jdong> persia: ah seems like the sync vs upload thing is a nonissue anyway; the package requires some trivial control mangling to match ubuntu build-dep names
<persia> jdong: Ah.  Perfect then.  Process as a merge, retitle, and resubmit to the queue.  Which bug again (I lost my log)
<jdong> bug #160403
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160403 in gpac "Please sync gpac 0.4.4-0.3 from debian-multimedia.org unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160403
<persia> jdong: Unsubscribed pending update
<jdong> persia: on a merge should I graft in the two previous Ubuntu changelog entries if they are basically frivilous?
<persia> jdong: I haven't looked at the package.  The general answer is yes, as the previous people who worked on it deserve credit (until there is a working sync source).
<jdong> ok, will do then :)
<persia> jdong: If you're not preserving the changes, just report that in your changelog entry.  If you are keeping the changes, then reference them as with any merge.
<jdong> ok, build time :)
<imbrandon> ok question, how evil is it if i add a maintainer script to install a config file based on if its debian or ubuntu ( and this change would go upstream to debain as i maintain the package there too )
<jdong> what specifically would be handled differently?
<imbrandon> e.g. have a package.conf.debian and a package.conf.ubuntu in the /debian dir and install it based on lsb-release
<StevenK> But why?
<jdong> I don't think Debian would be amused about having Ubuntu-specific cruft in their packaging
<imbrandon> StevenK: because i'm maintaining two packges ( the conf requires deb lines )
<persia> imbrandon: There's a lot of packages that do that now.
<imbrandon> err one packeg but a delta
<imbrandon> e.g the sid package has deb ftp.debian.org sid main etc and ours i patch to have s/sid/<dev-release>/g
<persia> jdong: Depends on the definition of "Debian".  For dual-maintained packages, it's not so bad (i.e. when the Debian maintainer is monitoring Ubuntu)
<imbrandon> but i maintain both here and debian
<imbrandon> persia: heh well in this case the dore-dev is mentoring debian heheh
<imbrandon> core* bleh
<jdong> imbrandon: meh that doesn't sound as evil
<persia> imbrandon: Don't you want that in a config file anyway?  I'd think it would break for lenny users.
<jdong> if desktop wallpaper isn't mostly brown, disable fancy features....
<imbrandon> persia: well thats why i was thinking about a lsb release generated config
<persia> imbrandon: That's a build-time, no?  You need something that works at run-time.
<imbrandon> its apt-mirror , thus the need for deb lines
<persia> It doesn't matter so much for Ubuntu, as we rebuild a lot, but for something to reach lenny, you can't rebuild from sid.
<imbrandon> persia: i could include all the configs like debootstrap and only install the correct one
<imbrandon> is what i was thinking
<persia> imbrandon: That works: install all the configurations, and select the right one at run-time.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> or install time
<imbrandon> is more what i was thinking
<persia> imbrandon: I don't like install-time, as it will likely be a conffile, and then users who upgrade don't get the upgrade unless you rebuild.
<imbrandon> the current apt-mirror conf looks much like sources.list ( intentionaly )
<persia> (and they didn't touch it)
<imbrandon> persia: alternatives
<imbrandon> err i guess thats ment for binarys though
<persia> imbrandon: Still, what happens for a hardy user who upgrades to hardy+1 ?
<imbrandon> likely after its in service they wont want to change
<imbrandon> e.g. it mirrors the archive anyhow so its likely not to be an unedited config
<persia> imbrandon: No?  It's a mirror, right?  Won't they want to mirror the new version?
<imbrandon> right but thats an addition , hrm
<imbrandon> true
<LaserJock> I wouldn't want it to change my mirror upon upgrade
<LaserJock> I should have to change it no?
<imbrandon> yes it wouldent automaticly, as the conf is a true conf in /etc/*
<imbrandon> so a package upgrade would ask to diff the conf
<persia> Right.  In that case, maybe install-time could work, but I still think having a managed configuration that sources something in /etc/default makes sense, with initial /etc/default set to match lsb-release
<jdong> persia: ok, got bug #160403 merged, debdiff attached and uus subscribed :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160403 in gpac "Merge gpac 0.4.4-0.3 from debian-multimedia.org unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160403
<persia> jdong: Excellent.  I process in FIFO mode, but as I'm currently waiting for a main sponsorship, I'm especially motivated: I may even get to that tonight.
<jdong> hehe :)
<imbrandon> persia: you need a main upload ?
<persia> imbrandon: Yep, and a sparky-specific backport.  Bug #163485
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163485 in linda "please adopt new menu policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163485
<imbrandon> want it uploaded to main or sparky
<imbrandon> ( or both )
<persia> imbrandon: If I only get one, sparky, but main would be good too :)
<jdong> oh god please tell me that gtkpod-aac bug doesn't affect gtkpod too.... :D
<imbrandon> k give me 5 minutes to finsh something then i'll get on it
<jdong> if so I'm gonna have to cry and mail debian BTS :D
<persia> imbrandon: Excellent.  That means that REVU will not be schizophrenic about menu entries for REVU day :)
<imbrandon> :)
<codemaste1> I've just uploaded srcpd to dput a few hours ago, how come I can't see it on the REWA website?
<imbrandon> persia: do you use revu-tools localy ?
<persia> imbrandon: No.
<imbrandon> ahh
<persia> imbrandon: why?
<codemaste1> I mean upload srcpd to REVU using dput
<persia> codemaste1: Do you belong to the "Contributors to Ubuntu Universe" group?
<imbrandon> nice all in one thing, just prior to you spororing an upload
<persia> imbrandon: Interesting.  I'll have to take a look.
<jdong> whoo! it definitely affects debian gtkpod too.... I get all the fun
<imbrandon> codemaste1: srcpd_2.0.10-1_source.changes ?? its in the rejected queue , are you in the "Contributors to Ubuntu Universe" group in LP ( if so i need to sync the key )
<imbrandon> and after that you can rm `*.upload' localy and reupload ( after the key is synced )
<imbrandon> is that the case ?
<codemaste1> yes, I'm already in the "Contributors to Ubuntu Universe" group
<codemaste1> I also have submitted my PGP key as instructed
<imbrandon> ok let me start a key sync, i'll announce when its complete
<codemaste1> a few hours ago
<imbrandon> codemaste1: right after thats done a REVU admin must sync the keys
<imbrandon> ( and i'm doing that now )
<imbrandon> persia: do you have a dgetable link for that linda ?
<persia> imbrandon: Not now, but I'll make one.  Hold on...
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> i assume you've build and tested this, i'm only gonna do a light checking of it considering the source of the package
<persia> imbrandon: I've been running it for a few hours, and testing it against packages being reviewed.  It shut up the warning, and the code doesn't seem to be doing much else.  The patches I applied are in the bug.
<imbrandon> k
<persia> imbrandon: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/linda_0.3.26ubuntu2.dsc
<imbrandon> k grabbing now
 * jdong wonders if imbrandon is up for a KTorrent sponsor after he's done with persia :)
<imbrandon> ugh, ok gnome-ites this has been bugging me, is there two clipboard managers in gutsy gnome or something ( i'm a kde guy on gnome atm )
<imbrandon> shitf+insert == diffrent buffer than rightlcik-paste
<persia> imbrandon: Yes, the gnome clipboard is not the X selection
<imbrandon> sounds like a bug to me
<jdong> imbrandon: no, that's how X works
<jdong> imbrandon: it's klipper that combines the two together
<jdong> imbrandon: you can use glipper to do the same on GNOME
<imbrandon> i was gonna say KDE dosent behave like that
<imbrandon> ctl+v , shift+insert , right-click+paste , IMHO should all paste the same contents
<jdong> at least I think glipper does
<jdong> imbrandon: shift-ins is taken the same as mouse-paste, ctrl+v and rightclick-paste are the same
<persia> imbrandon: Depends on what you want.  Install glipper if you want that.  I like it separate, and frequently use X selection to move things around while keeping something different on the clipboard.
<jdong> imbrandon: of course you can hotkey shift-ins to paste in keyboard settings or whatever, and then they'll act identically
<imbrandon> yea i'd like them all the same as with every other OS heh
<persia> imbrandon: Actually, if you run X on Windows or OS X, you get the dual behaviour as well :)
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> whenever a defense starts "Actually if you run X on Windows..." :D
<imbrandon> persia: nah klipper on X windows on win32 merges them too
<imbrandon> i actual so that hehe
<imbrandon> s/so/do
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  klipper does.  Use glipper if you want it: it's not a bug :)
<jdong> imbrandon: if you love klipper so much run it inside GNOME :D
<imbrandon> jdong: heh NO
<imbrandon> i have to fight myself not to install amarok
<jdong> before long you'll echo startkde >> ~/.gnomerc...
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> but anyway, hurry up with persia's package so I can bug you to upload ktorrent!
<imbrandon> i am now
<StevenK> Could you make ktorrent suck less?
<jdong> StevenK: I'm working on that :P
<jdong> it doesn't crash nearly as often as before
<StevenK> jdong: It takes 20% CPU even when no torrents are downloading
<imbrandon> have to build on two machines, sparky because i dont have a sparc to build it localy and then localy so i can gpg sign to upload :)
<jdong> StevenK: err... how?
<jdong> StevenK: I have it running always in the background with no CPU usage whatsoever
<jdong> StevenK: can you strace it or otherwise figure out what on earth it's trying to do?
<StevenK> jdong: I can, a bit later.
<jdong> StevenK: thanks, I'd be interested to know
<Fujitsu> Why do all graphical P2P apps seem to suck so badly?
<imbrandon> uTorrent+wine , multiverse now !
 * imbrandon runs
<LaserJock> anybody know if git is more stable than bzr developmentally
<LaserJock> ?
<jdong> Fujitsu: because graphical P2P almost always means a demand for info-erotica...
 * Fujitsu is fine with rtorrent.
<LaserJock> I just don't use torrents
<jdong> Fujitsu: and that always yields to resource usage, etc. Case and point: Azureus's circle swarm view
<LaserJock> they are aweful aweful nasty things
<imbrandon> git is what the Linux kernel uses so i would assume its pretty stable, never having used it really
<Fujitsu> jdong: I guess, yes.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't often, either.
<jdong> draws a circle representing EVERY CONNECTED PEER and chunks flying to and from you.
<persia> LaserJock: I believe they are about the same: both under active development, but both currently trying to maintain archive-format stability.
<jdong> opening up that tab instantly +30MB on RAM usage
<LaserJock> it's irritating when bzr keeps changing stuff
<jdong> LaserJock: changing stuff like what?
<LaserJock> formats
<codemaste1> hey, are the keys resynced yet?
<imbrandon> codemaste1: looks like ~3 more minutes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hasn't it only changed once or twice in a couple of years?
<imbrandon> approx
<jdong> LaserJock: the migration path is usually braindead easy and it's a purely optional migration often times too
<codemaste1> take your time
<jdong> Fujitsu: recently we've been getting a lot of backwards-compatible format bumps
<Fujitsu> jdong: Ah.
<jdong> Fujitsu: and packs is coming up soon which will be a complete format bump
<LaserJock> it's just kind annoying
<jdong> they are the only way towards performance imprvoements
<jdong> so another classic case of can't please everyone.
<LaserJock> makes me feel like they can't settle on something
<jdong> Stay with same format, people complain that bzr is too slow
<LaserJock> but I realize they know wha they're doing
<jdong> move to new faster format, people complain the format changed :)
<jdong> LaserJock: I've loosely followed the format changes and they all seem incremental/sane
<persia> LaserJock: "Can't settle" is better than "That didn't work: building something completely new now".  At least there is effort to make it compatible.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Do they know what they're doing?
<jdong> it's not like they are radically redesigning it
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm sure they must, they're smart people :-)
<jdong> and as I said before, the clients seem fairly backwards compatible with each other
<jdong> I use bzr 0.11 on Athena and bzr 0.92 locally
<jdong> and they interoperate perfectly
<LaserJock> jdong: sure, it's just a little unsettling when you do a bzr pull or something and it tells you you're using an obsoleted format
<imbrandon> LaserJock: isnt it only one command to upgrade the format ?
<imbrandon> and then push
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> that's not the issue
<jdong> LaserJock: if you don't tell the user, how would he know a newer format is available?
<LaserJock> they issue is things are changing a lot, which one would expect from something in heavy development
<LaserJock> *the
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It is in heavy development.
<imbrandon> ahh, well it kinda is
<LaserJock> right
<jdong> LaserJock: it is in fast-paced 1-month-per-release cycles
<imbrandon> but in its defense so is git
<LaserJock> and I'm saying that's a bit unsettling to users who rely on things not getting eaten, etc.
<jdong> but they are sanely managed for stability
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I have a lot of branches, and none of them have been eaten, ever.
<jdong> LaserJock: from what I've been told, bzr has had zero data loss bugs across all of its releases
<jdong> not counting if you use a development branch of course
<Fujitsu> I've upgraded branches from like 0.6 or so all the way up to now.
<Fujitsu> Maybe even earlier.
<LaserJock> that's good at least
<jdong> yeah, the bzr team has earned my trust of reliability
<jdong> LaserJock: their test suite is huge, and for a chagne to get merged into the head branch it must pass the test suite
<LaserJock> I'm  just used to CVS/svn which are ... not exactly under heavy development
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: But CVS and SVN are crap.
<LaserJock> not really
<Fujitsu> Particularly the former.
<jdong> bzr's reliability with data is not an accident -- it's definitely by design :)
<persia> Does anyone have a favorite CLI IRC client?
<Fujitsu> persia: irssi
<jdong> persia: irssi
<imbrandon> irssi
<Fujitsu> rofl
<jdong> :D
 * imbrandon is on it now
<LaserJock> I've not found anything that I couldn't do in CVS/svn really
 * jdong is on it now
 * Fujitsu hasn't used anything else for quite a while.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Merge.
<LaserJock> persia: irssi
<persia> Right.  Then irssi will be listed as the "Obsoleted By" for ircii-pana :)
<jdong> Fujitsu: (1) host without a specialized server setup
<Fujitsu> persia: Yep. I'll be really glad to see that gone.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I've only done that once before
<Fujitsu> jdong: That too.
<jdong> Fujitsu: (2) Allow contributors to version their changes while not granting write access to main branch
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You are an edge-case.
<LaserJock> ok, great :-)
<LaserJock> always an edge case
<Fujitsu> jdong: Doesn't svk solve that?
<jdong> Fujitsu: well yeah, but svk is analgous to bzr anyway
<LaserJock> 1) and 2) aren't a problem for me, it's not hosted and it's just me
<persia> Fujitsu: Up to archive-admins now...
<jdong> Fujitsu: with svk, still see #1, and Svk's development team is a lot smaller
<Fujitsu> persia: Good, though I'm really not sure what to do with the old releases.
<jdong> Fujitsu: I've actually lost/corrupted mirrors in svk before... :(
<Fujitsu> jdong: I was complaining that SVN was bad, not defending it (except for the SVK bit)
<jdong> fortunately they were rebuildable from other sources
<LaserJock> I really like svn
<jdong> Fujitsu: sorry I meant to aim it at LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> CVS is a lot harder to use for me
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: -updates with ircii-panna+really_irssi :)
<imbrandon> persia: ^^
<imbrandon> LOL
<LaserJock> but svn is so easy
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ewww.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you want, you could add tasks to Bug #162870, but the barrier to convince the archive-admins for old releases is much higher.  Alternately, you could do a transition SRU that installs irssi, but that doesn't seem right somehow.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162870 in ircii-pana "Removal of ircii-pana" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162870
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: How is it easier than bzr!?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: total joke
<Fujitsu> persia: That seems really, really broken. `WTF? Where did it go!?'
<jdong> LaserJock: svn servers are quit more complex compared to bzr
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: it's fast
<persia> Fujitsu: Like I said, the barrier to convince is higher.  Just dropping for hardy will be a good thing.
<LaserJock> bzr has basically the same features
<Fujitsu> persia: Right.
<LaserJock> so it doesn't make much of a difference to me
<Fujitsu> Upstream vanished ages ago, etc.
<jdong> LaserJock: svn is missing distributed development though
 * persia is still waiting for nested trees in bzr
<LaserJock> jdong: I've never found distributed development to be very interesting
<jdong> distributed development is a critical feature for me
<LaserJock> I don't like it much in fact
<imbrandon> persia: new linda on sparky, working on hardy upload now
<persia> imbrandon: Great.  Thanks!
<jdong> LaserJock: ah well if you don't need DD then there's much less reason why to choose bzr :)
<codemaste1> so how is the key sync?
<LaserJock> jdong: exactly
<LaserJock> svn works just fine for me mostly
<imbrandon> codemaste1: sorry finished, remove your local .upload file and re-dput
<LaserJock> although I like that I can create a bzr branch anywhere
 * Fujitsu likes that he always has the version history and can work offline.
<persia> codemaste1: All the keys are pulled from LP to check the signatures of people who upload.
<codemaste1> are you telling to remove my local .upload and re-dput?
<persia> codemaste1: Yes
<imbrandon> codemaste1: yes
<codemaste1> If so, how can I remove my local .upload?
 * jdong likes how easy it is to create new repos and branch in bzr
<persia> codemaste1: rm?
<LaserJock> but I've just not seen much use for distributed development in anything I've done
<jdong> I often do merge type work in bzr
<imbrandon> rm <file>.upload
<jdong> even for non-bzr-managed packages
<codemaste1> is it in my local computer?
<imbrandon> yes, in the same directory as the dsc
<codemaste1> thx
<imbrandon> it creates it when you dput the file
<imbrandon> so you dont upload the same file 2 times, but in this case you want to
<imbrandon> thus removeing it
<LaserJock> I'm a little sad that the doc team is finally moving to bzr
<LaserJock> svn worked so well in that case
<imbrandon> codemaste1: and fyi the newuploads are processes every 5 minutes, iirc, so if you dont see it in the webui in ~15 then poke me/us again
<LaserJock> and bzr is so darn slow
<jdong> LaserJock: they're making good progress on performance
<imbrandon> LaserJock: have you tried bzr+ssh, seems MUCH faster IMHO
<LaserJock> yeah
<jdong> LaserJock: pushing and branching over bzr+ssh helps immensely
<jdong> as is having the latest branch format on both sides
<LaserJock> but it took us over a day just to push the first branch
<LaserJock> and then we had to have somebody in the DC do the branching for us locally
<imbrandon> wow
<LaserJock> cause it was going to take at least a week to get our branches uploaded to LP
<LaserJock> and now we have so much duplication
<jdong> LaserJock: yikes, that's not normal...
<imbrandon> how big is this damnd branch ?
<persia> Would anyone like to help cleanup the partial Edgy SRU that is Bug #83731?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83731 in mldonkey "[SRU] Edgy: Urgent patch to solve upload problem" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83731
<Fujitsu> persia: Did pitti not remove it?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: the svn repo is ~200MB or so
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> yea thats huge
<LaserJock> imbrandon: with around 4k commits
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, but a respin was requested, and it's in the sponsors queue (where it doesn't really belong).  I want someone to own it before sending it off to be forgotten.
<LaserJock> and then you have to times that by 4
<LaserJock> cause we branched for each *buntu
<jdong> persia: wow that's old school... is the only thing that need to be done the version?
<codemaste1> how is the upload of srcpd?
<Fujitsu> IIRC LP is getting server-side branching soon.
<codemaste1> does it look good?
<persia> jdong: Just about.  You want it?
<imbrandon> i'll look
<persia> jdong: Needs verification as well :)
<jdong> persia: I'm ambivalent. I don't think I'll be able to solicit verification on an *edgy* package
<LaserJock> it still takes hours to branch the docteam repo :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Even using bzr+ssh?
<jdong> persia: honestly I think it'll end up in this same state 3 months down the road :)
<persia> jdong: That has been the problem historically :)
<Fujitsu> Edgy dies in 5 months.
<imbrandon> codemaste1: dosent looked to be rejected this time, i'll be able to tell better once REVU does its cron magic
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm not positive on that, perhaps
<jdong> LaserJock: bzr+ssh:// basically tars up and sends over a tarball of the repo
<jdong> LaserJock: if that's slow, then it's LP bandwidth issues
<LaserJock> I know it took 5 hrs for one person to branch
<jdong> which doesn't surprise me at all but *cough*
<codemaste1> this is the first time I do packaging...
<Fujitsu> mplayer often takes 3 or 4 hours to push a new branch.
<LaserJock> yeah, that's nuts
<LaserJock> I don't have time for that
<Fujitsu> We only have to do that once for each release, fortunately.
<Fujitsu> And I haven't done it since bzr+ssh arrived.
<LaserJock> and I'm still a tad burned from the bzr 0.11 days
<persia> Do we have an active MOTU SRU team?  I'd like to hand this somewhere (even if only to be officially rejected).
<LaserJock> when I could use bzr from home
<LaserJock> *couldn't
<jdong> persia: last comment is 2007-03-24.... since it was fixed in Feisty I honestly doubt anyone still cares
<Fujitsu> persia: The MOTU SRU team was abolished 9 months ago.
<persia> Fujitsu: Lack of interest, or for a specific reason?
<jdong> persia: anyway I'll comment on the bug and see if anyone on Edgy still cares about the bug. If I get two people to commit then I'll do it
<Fujitsu> persia: It was previously simply handling approvals.
<LaserJock> persia: no longer needed
<persia> jdong: Great.  I'll unsubscribe, and assign you :)
<Fujitsu> That role is now held by the individual MOTU.
<persia> Ah.  I was thinking of a team (including Contributor members) that was committed to testing and prepping solutions: not an approval team.  We need one of these.
<jdong> persia: agreed, IMO SRU's tend to be ignored for shinier work
<LaserJock> persia: no we don't have one of those, though we maybe should
<persia> Right.  Who volunteers to lead the team (No, you don't need to be MOTU).
<LaserJock> jdong: speaking of
<jdong> I think a SRU wrangling team would be a great thing to have, the question is how many people woudl be interested?
 * Fujitsu would prefer a security wrangling team, personally.
<LaserJock> jdong: remember those SRUs I gave you a few (many) months ago
<LaserJock> ?
<jdong> LaserJock: very vaguely, yes
<imbrandon> hrm SRU's might be fun, since i'm not doing enough other cruft
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> jdong: their still sitting around in -proposed I think
 * imbrandon needs to re-prioritise some things
<persia> Fujitsu: Why separate?  Have one team that helps with all fixes for releases, both security and non-security.  Security gets priority.
<Fujitsu> persia: Sounds good.
<imbrandon> persia: good idea
<StevenK> persia: Works for me.
<persia> Fujitsu: You want to run it?
<jdong> LaserJock: :( what can I do about it if nobody seems to verify?
<LaserJock> jdong: announce that they need verification
<Fujitsu> persia: Sure. We already have ~motu-swat.
 * StevenK runs off to cook butter chicken for dinner
<LaserJock> jdong: one is in Universe and you can send out a SRU:  call for testing email to -motu
<imbrandon> i can be a part of it , serouisly, i've been looking to shift that way anyway for various dapper --> hardy bits, but i'm not a leader IMHO
<jdong> LaserJock: ah, good idea, I'll put that on my todo list
<LaserJock> jdong: the other one is in Main I think and you might have to ask bdmurry about what to do for that
<persia> Fujitsu: Great.  As I've forgotten, and I suspect others have as well, please send a note to the ML about all the great things motu-swat does, how to join, and how to ask for help with testing / verification.
<Fujitsu> persia: Well, ~motu-swat was meant to handle universe security issues, but hasn't done anything since about March. Very few members seem to exist any more.
<persia> Fujitsu: Sure: repurpose.  You need more members, right?
<Fujitsu> Right.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu wanna add me to ~motu-swat ( i should really leave other various teams i'm no longer active in ) , but as i said that would abe a good focus for my energies since dapper --> hardy will likely take some SRU love
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: maybe -swat should handle all stable release stuff for Universe?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sounds sane.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea thats what we was considering
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sure.
 * persia wants to emphasize that motu-swat helps handling all stable release stuff, and that others are welcome to help, even if they aren't in the team.
<Fujitsu> Yep. I'll write up an email tonight.
<LaserJock> excellent
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  That'll go a long way towards getting "community supported" to actually mean something.
<LaserJock> do we still have a Universe QA?
<LaserJock> team that is
<Fujitsu> persia: Heh, hopefully.
<persia> LaserJock: Not right now, but we're still assembling tools and stuff: I don't think we're really ready for a marketing push on that.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Didn't know we ever did...
<nenolod> when will the next sync from debian unstable happen?
<LaserJock> so MOTU swat handles stable releases and MOTU QA handles development releases
<persia> nenolod: Likely Monday
<nenolod> groovy
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sounds good.
<persia> LaserJock: Well, loosely, but yes.
<LaserJock> that sounds like a winner to me
 * persia wants to avoid a choice: people should be able to work on both areas if interested
<LaserJock> well sure
<imbrandon> persia: linda uploaded
<LaserJock> I don't think we need to lock people in or anything
<codemaste1> imbrandon: Thanks  I can see srcpd on the site.  What do you think about this package?  Is it good enough?
<LaserJock> "Sign up now for a 2 release commitment"
<nenolod> i just maintain my packages in universe by sending them through debian unstable
<nenolod> which is why i am wondering :P
<persia> imbrandon: Extra cool.  Now I just have to wait for the Debian maintainer, and my changes can get undone :)
<LaserJock> "Early release penalty is 10 SRUs"
<Fujitsu> s/SRU/CVE/
<persia> nenolod: OK.  More generally, during the beginning of the Ubuntu release cycle, a sync happens whenever the archive-admins or cron get around to it, which tends to be fairly often.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hehe
<imbrandon> codemaste1: i cant REVU it at the moment, you can either A) copy the package URL from revu.ubuntuwire.com and paste it in here asking for Reviews and/or come arround next revu day and poke people, personaly i sugest both
<persia> After DebianImportFreeze, syncs happen per-package and only on-request.
<LaserJock> alright, it's almost 1am and I have to be up early
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<nenolod> i should eventually apply to be a MOTU. from what i have heard, the process is easier than becoming a DD (at least for me, the only people who can sign my key in Debian are like thousands of miles away)
<persia> After FeatureFreeze, syncs that add features need approval from the UVF team, and only happen by-package and by-request.
<Fujitsu> Night LaserJock.
<imbrandon> nenolod: work on getting other Ubuntu MOTU or core-dev to sign it
<nenolod> MOTU mandates keysigning too?
<nenolod> well, i'm probably boned
<nenolod> :P
<persia> nenolod: The process is easier, but it also works differently.  For MOTU, you start by preparing candidate uploads for packages.  When you have a lot of stuff in the archive, we'll tell you you should be MOTU, and you are granted upload rights.  It's work first, then process, rather than process first, then work.
<imbrandon> yes
<Fujitsu> nenolod: We don't, but it's strongly recommended, and I feel uneasy about people letting unsigned keys onto the keyring.
<codemaste1> srcpd link: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=srcpd
<codemaste1> would you please REVU my srcpd package?  I need constructive feedback
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: well we dont require strong set but iirc it has to be atleaste signed by $someone
<persia> imbrandon: The requirements fluctuate widely depending on the individual, and who checks.  I believe it should be strong-set (if not Debian-strong or Ubuntu-strong), but not everyone is even signed (especially early people).
<imbrandon> but that might have changed since i became core, havent checked since then
<nenolod> Fujitsu, well, it's signed by "people", just not ubuntu people :P
<nenolod> otoh
<persia> nenolod: Are you in the strong set?
<persia> nenolod: Also, aside from that, we'd welcome your debdiffs today, regardless of anything else, and the rest can be resolved as time passes :)
<nenolod> persia, well my debdiffs would just be against packages i already maintain via debian
<imbrandon> persia: yea he has been on that road a while :)
<persia> nenolod: That's also welcome, although we encourage breadth for MOTU.  If you don't mind being sponsored, you can keep the packages in shape in both places fairly easily.
<nenolod> persia, i don't mind being sponsored
<nenolod> persia, a friend of mine sponsors my uploads in debian anyway
<nenolod> as i said, i can't get my key signed by anyone in debian because they are all too far away from me :P
 * imbrandon goes to trim some teams he is inactive in from LP
<nenolod> if i were to get my key signed in debian, i'd have to drive a large distance
<jdong> imbrandon: are you up for looking at a ktorrent sponsor? :)
<imbrandon> jdong: sure give me a dsc url
<jdong> imbrandon: bug #163426 -- debdiff against current hardy version
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163426 in ktorrent "KTorrent 2.2.3 crasher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163426
<nenolod> persia, how would a sponsorship process work in that case?
<nenolod> because i can upload the fixes to debian today, so all would be needed would be to just dget the update and sync manually
<persia> nenolod: Depends.  If it's just syncs, open a sync request bug, and subscribe the sponsors queue.  If you have an Ubuntu-specific variation (e.g. FTBFS issue only in Ubuntu), attach a debdiff to the bug, and subscribe the sponsors queue.
<nenolod> works for me
<nenolod> :)
<persia> Requested syncs usually get done about twice a week after DIF (and are mostly automated before that).
<nenolod> right now i am working on projectM in amarok if anyone cares
<nenolod> per DarkMageZ
<nenolod> ;p
<imbrandon> jdong: working on it now
<jdong> imbrandon: thank you very much
<imbrandon> np
<nenolod> but since syncs are automated, i won't bug anyone for now =)
<imbrandon> jdong: although from now on if you intend to poke me personaly make a dsc url :) hehe
<jdong> imbrandon: hehe *note to self: imbrandon likes dsc's*
 * imbrandon grabs mt dew while this test builds
<jdong> holy crap it's 4AM
<imbrandon> yea i like to do my revuing localy, even for stuff uploaded to revu i normaly grab it local
<imbrandon> or ssh in
 * jdong heads off to bed
<nenolod> persia, btw i wound up using just a standard dh_make rules for that cmake package :P
<JDahl> can you use "apt-get build-dep" with "apg-get source" to fetch build-dependencies as sources,  instead of getting the binary versions?
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  Likely easier that way :)
<imbrandon> nenolod: what cmake pacakge ?
<jdong> JDahl: no
<imbrandon> just curious
<persia> JDahl: You might want to look at apt-build, which can help with that, but not really.
<persia> JDahl: Also, it's typically not worth it.
<jdong> JDahl: use some grep foo :)
 * persia points out that grep-dctrl is likely easier than grep
<nenolod> imbrandon, libprojectm
<JDahl> persia, I instead Debian sid main section as a source,  since I am trying to build xserver-xorg-intel-video:2.2.0,  but there's alot of dependencies and I hoped I didn't have to build the dependencies manually
<JDahl> *inserted
<jdong> JDahl: sudo apt-get -s build-dep gcc-4.2 | grep '^Inst' | awk '{print $2}' | xargs -i apt-get source {}
<jdong> JDahl: something fun like that :)
<nenolod> imbrandon, http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/libp/libprojectm/libprojectm_1.01-2.dsc
<jdong> JDahl: or loop over the Build-Depends: field on the source :)
<persia> JDahl: You shouldn't have to build the dependencies manually: the buildds don't.  Just use apt-get build-dep to grab the ones you can.
<imbrandon> nenolod: cool
<nenolod> oops
<nenolod> imbrandon, http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libp/libprojectm/libprojectm_1.01-2.dsc
<JDahl> persia, won't that install binaries?
<persia> nenolod: Does that need to be archived on REVU?
<nenolod> persia, yeah, it can be nuked
<jdong> JDahl: that'll install binaries
<persia> JDahl: Yes.  Isn't that a good thing?  If you don't install the binaries, you need to compile everything.
<imbrandon> nenolod: archived != nukes
<imbrandon> err nuked
<JDahl> persia, I am backporting something from Debian sid
<nenolod> persia, the version on revu was 0.x, which still used autotools
<nenolod> imbrandon, oh. ok. it can be archived then ;)
<jdong> JDahl: you'd probably want something like a version of pbuilder-satisfy-depends that outputs a list of packages not satisfyable
<persia> nenolod: libvisual-projectm?
<JDahl> jdong, ok - thanks
<nenolod> persia, libvisual-projectm will probably go through NEW later today
<persia> or libprojectm?
<nenolod> persia, libprojectm
<persia> Right.  I'll archive both of them.  Thanks.
<jdong> JDahl: you'd probably be better off manually looking at which build dependencies cannot be satisfied, and building those by hand
<nenolod> persia, I'm working with DarkMageZ on libvisual-projectm
<jdong> JDahl: blindly recursively backporting can lead to some interesting results
<JDahl> jdong, yes - it's seems so
<JDahl> jdong, but the good things about apt-get source is that you dont need to be root ;)
<persia> nenolod: Cool.  Are you also looking at libvisual-plugins in general?  If I remember correctly, that package had a lot of variation between Debian and Ubuntu, and it'd be nice to get it sorted.
<jdong> JDahl: I write prevu, a backporting tool, and I've played with the idea of automatically chasing after a dependency chain. I've found most of the times you end up with a good chunk of the development distro :)
<nenolod> persia, libvisual doesn't interest me. the only reason why i am working with DarkMageZ on libvisual-projectm is because i already maintain libprojectm, so i figure it would be easier that way
<nenolod> the only player that uses libvisual is amarok
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  Oh well :)
<imbrandon> nenolod: iirc dosent some of the older ones too like xmms ?
<imbrandon> ( i did the libvisual0.2 --> 0.4 transition for amaork in dapper )
<nenolod> imbrandon, no. they only do libvisual 0.2, which is not compatible with libvisual 0.4
<imbrandon> ahh
<StevenK> Yay for SOVER bumps
<nenolod> audacious used libvisual at one time
<nenolod> but we dropped it when lv 0.4 came out and it was entirely different ;p
<imbrandon> yea, i rember doing that transition , it was painfull
<persia> StevenK: Think of it as upstream giving us a nice NBS list so we don't get bored :)
<StevenK> persia: :-)
<nenolod> i've only used amarok once
<nenolod> that was tonight to make sure the libvisual-projectm package worked :P
<imbrandon> amaork == love, me is sadend now
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Why?
<nenolod> imbrandon, well, i wrote audacious for me, it suits my needs 100% etc
<nenolod> ;p
<imbrandon> :)
<DarkMageZ> persia, i'm working on pushing the changes in libvisual-plugins up to debian. the old maintainer has declared them rfa.
 * StevenK hugs Quod
<persia> DarkMageZ: Excellent.  Thanks for chasing that.
 * Fujitsu hugs Rhythmbox.
<Fujitsu> Even though it has segfaulted on start for the past week.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, well, if he does RFA, then i'll maintain them with you
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: because it handles my ipod and music collection just how i like, dunno specific, just one of theose personal prefs
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: No, why are you saddened?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: If I could make Rhythmbox look like Quod, I'd probably use it.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What do you prefer about Quod's UI?
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, declaration of rta @ 451212 & 451213
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ahh that i'm on gnome atm and try not to mix DE apps, e.g if i'm on kde i use qt+kde , gnome gtk+gome
<imbrandon> and miss amaork :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Ah.
<Fujitsu> Exaile!
<nenolod> bmpx
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Exaile seems to be memory hungry and slow
 * Fujitsu hasn't touched it.
<nenolod> bmpx.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: How clean it is
<nenolod> bmpx is the only library like player i've used that hasn't made me want to kill people
<imbrandon> i actualy in reality use pympd more than anything else on gnome
 * Fujitsu only moved to Rhythmbox from gmpc a couple of months back.
 * persia prefers audacious to bmpx
<nenolod> persia, those comparisons really are inane
<nenolod> bmpx is an entirely different thing
<persia> nenolod: Yes :)
<nenolod> bmpx is a library player with a big gtk2 ui
<nenolod> :P
<nenolod> http://bmpx.beep-media-player.org/site/Image:Bmpx-0.40-screenshot-5.jpg
<nenolod> like so
<imbrandon> jdong: ktorrent uplaoded, updating bug now
<DarkMageZ> is bmpx stable yet? i remember when i played with it back in the day it was nuclear
<crimsun> jdong: (just a note: you can combine your earlier grep+awk into awk '/^Inst/ {print $2}'
<nenolod> audacious is stable :P
<nenolod> but apparently mister DarkMageZ uses amarok ;p
<nenolod> but seems to enjoy my strangled version of xchat
<nenolod> persia, i wonder if ubuntu will follow the pending gtk1 removal from debian?
<DarkMageZ> lol, i have a build of conspire on my system somewhere. it's one of those projects i'm keeping a track of to see how far it'll go.
<Fujitsu> nenolod: It will be an LTS, so I hope so.
<persia> nenolod: It's been mooted.  If we can migrate everything, we will.
<nenolod> so ubuntu will never ever get rid of XMMS? :D
<persia> nenolod: The difference is the deadline.  We have to finish the transition by 14th February to drop libgtk1.2 this decade.
<nenolod> well, xmms 1.2.11 is out, but i don't think the debian maintainer of it cares
<persia> nenolod: xmms was demoted to universe for gutsy.  We may be able to remove for hardy, depending on usage counts, plugin support, etc. for other players.
<nenolod> persia, audacious supports all of the plugins XMMS does now
<Fujitsu> Only 315 rdepends, yay...
<nenolod> except for binary-only crap ones
<nenolod> like in_mp3pro
<persia> nenolod: Yep, and it's currently targeted as a replacement.
<nenolod> persia, noes :(
<persia> Fujitsu: for libgtk-1.2?
<persia> nenolod: noes?
<nenolod> persia, please don't do it like lameeyes @ genpoo did it
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes.
<persia> \o/
<nenolod> i got death threats from irate genpoo users
<nenolod> that wasn't cool!
<persia> nenolod: I'm not sure what that means, but if you've a good package in Debian, and we're syncing, you'll control how it behaves.
<nenolod> persia, i mean on audacious being targeted as replacement to xmms
<nenolod> persia, the way Flameeyes @gentoo did it was he masked XMMS and put as the message "Use audacious instead"
<imbrandon> jesus, i just deactived the membership to teams i'm not active in ( i can always re-join later ) but i'm still in 28 teams !?!!
<persia> nenolod: Well, we have to support xmms users somehow.  A number of the meta-packages that used to recommend xmms now recommend audacious.  I suspect the rest will do the same.  I don't know if there will be a replacement package (but I doubt it).
<persia> imbrandon: teams can be in teams too :)
<imbrandon> yea
<nenolod> persia, well, the way gentoo people did it implied it was "100% exactly like XMMS"
<imbrandon> most of the 28 are merberships via other ways, like UUC via core etc
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You only left 4 that I can see.
<persia> nenolod: Well, that's clearly not true.  Lying is not preferred.
<nenolod> persia, :D
<imbrandon> yea , 4 i dont do anything in
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> the others i actively use
<nenolod> persia, well i have faith that ubuntu's process is far superior to genpoo's way of doing things
<nenolod> ;)
<persia> nenolod: Maybe.  Maybe it's also that you are here?
<nenolod> yeah that too =)
<imbrandon> ok time todo some LP SRU hunting, what was that one someone was itching about earlier
<nenolod> ubuntu really is the best option for a debian-ish desktop
<imbrandon> win 3
<imbrandon> err
<RAOF> ENOSLASH
<nenolod> persia, generally, debian has handled transitions very eloquently, so i expect the same in ubuntu
<persia> imbrandon: You might take a look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors/ I only see a couple SRUs, but they are easy hits.
<nenolod> and i've been using debian since potato/m68k =)
<imbrandon> mmm m68k
<nenolod> amiga 3000+ ;)
<imbrandon> i got one of those in the corner ( iirc its a 68k one )
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod> they all are
<nenolod> unless you get a cyberstorm card for them
<imbrandon> no the old apple i have
<imbrandon> i dont have any amegas
<nenolod> oh. :P
<imbrandon> amigas*
<nenolod> i've been using debian for like a really long time. geeze :P
<TheMuso> jdong: I was told by other MOTUs that while syncing from multimedia is possible, its actually a lot of manual work for the admins, so they would rather that we don't sync from other repositories than official Debian.
<persia> TheMuso: As it turns out, it's a merge anyway: jdong will be pushing a debdiff back into the queue.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok thanks.
<nenolod> i'm working on a notification-daemon replacement which is OSD like (kinda like Growl)
<nenolod> it's neat :P
<nenolod> maybe after hardy i will draft a spec to replace notification-daemon with it
<nenolod> :D
<persia> nenolod: I'd recommend getting it in to the distro first :)
<nenolod> persia, yes. i need to finish it first before i do that
<nenolod> persia, it uses atheme.org's libaosd framework which also needs completing too
<imbrandon> ok anthing with priorty:required dosent need a dap, but what about stuff in ubuntu-minimal ? ( e.g. bash )
<imbrandon> s/dap/dep
<crimsun> (bash is Pri:required.)
<imbrandon> ok so Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, bash is wrong, correct ?
<crimsun> correct.
<crimsun> s/bash//
<imbrandon> k
<crimsun> I went through this for the oprofile SRU waaay back when.
<imbrandon> yea looks like unzip hardy/gutsy SRU thought they needed it too
<nenolod> what is an SRU?
<imbrandon> unzip bug #135086 ( working on it now )
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135086 in unzip "zipgrep: exit code always 0" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135086
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<nenolod> ah. thanks. i knew what they were, but i didn't know what SRU stood for
<nenolod> ;)
<imbrandon> ohhh AN sru, sorry read that as what sru
<nenolod> Audacious 1.4 should be SRU'd. Audacious 1.3 sucks. :P :P :P
 * nenolod hides
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, any regressions? :P
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, yeah, 1.3 was a disaster
<nenolod> ;p
<DarkMageZ> oh, so you've removed all my favorite "features" :P
<nenolod> well, 1.3 added a lot of stuff
<nenolod> but also a lot of bugs :P
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, wouldn't it be easier to utilize libvisual for visualizations than to manually maintain each plugin?
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, no
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, libvisual sucks
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, it's dead anyway
<nenolod> i doubt there will be a libvisual 0.6
<DarkMageZ> i'm trying to secretly find a way to resurrect it
<DarkMageZ> but no-one is taking the bait :(
<nenolod> i might add a libvisual proxy plugin in the future
<nenolod> but it seems unlikely
<StevenK> nenolod: If libvisual is dead, is there anything replacing it?
<effie_jayx> morning all
<persia> DarkMageZ: You could adopt it...
<DarkMageZ> i can't code... not well enough to resurrect it.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, well, the reason why libvisual died is because synap like got into some coke or something and decided he was going to write an entire toolkit
<nenolod> and everyone who was interested in libvisual went "lol fuck that"
<nenolod> StevenK, i don't know of any replacement
<StevenK> nenolod: Fair enough, I was just curious
<DarkMageZ> last libvisual cvs code change was 13 months ago :( the main developer has now got a full time job and is out of time.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, and nobody cares about his vision for building a full vis toolkit
<DarkMageZ> i don't have any particular love for libvisual. it's the concept of the entire project which was good tho. a centralised visualization library. so any media player would only have to know how to call it rather than implement every single visualization themselfs.
<JDahl> jdong, thanks for the advice;  unfortunately the list of broken dependencies kept growing to the point of backporting all of Xorg, so I gave up and started focusing on rescuing X
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | http://www.ubuntuwire.com is back! | It's REVU day.  Uploaders: advertise your packages, Reviewers: let's see how many we can get into NEW
<persia> Sorry I'm late about that :(
<nenolod> :D
 * persia wishes to lash Kmos, but finds no target
<Fujitsu> persia: What hath he violated now?
<persia> Fujitsu: Just lots of sync requests, without investigation of the changes, or at least insufficient explanantion for me to consider them valid syncs.
<Fujitsu> Ah, business as usual.
<Fujitsu> Speaking of the devil.
<persia> Kmos: Please test to make sure that the Debian packages have all the Ubuntu fixes applied, and that you are examining the latest Debian package before requesting a sync.
<Fujitsu> Or people will strangle you. Moreso than usual.
<DarkMageZ> nenolod, hey. xmms isn't dead. they just released a new version :P
<persia> DarkMageZ: Does the new version include a port to GTK+2.9 ?
<persia> s/9/0
<Kmos> persia: i was testing.. why? something wrong ?
<DarkMageZ> persia, na :P
<persia> Kmos: Well, for ccid, I very much doubt you tested with an SCR335 reader, as a sync would have dropped support, and for cynthiune.app, you requested a sync for a version that FTBFS on Ubuntu.  I haven't looked at the others yet.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, XMMS 1.2.11 is the final release of XMMS.
<nenolod> DarkMageZ, there will not be any more releases of XMMS.
<Kmos> cynthiune.app FTBFS on ubuntu? so why it build in my pbuilder ? (maybe because i've i386 only) ?
<Fujitsu> Ooh, it has finally died?
<nenolod> 1.2.11 was intended to be "the final version"
<Kmos> persia: the ccid has the support for the SCR335 reader, check debian diff.gz
<nenolod> they have been talking about that point for several years now
<nenolod> ;p
<Kmos> and debian/control
<persia> Kmos: No, currently it doesn't FTBFS anywhere.  The specific Debian version for which you requested a sync (which is no longer current) FTBFS in hardy.
<nenolod> or, to quote Peter Alm directly:
<nenolod>  Pinchiukas (n=doucheba@212.122.90.186) has joined #xmms
<nenolod> <Pinchiukas> so xmms is still being developed?
<nenolod> <[Peter]> no
<persia> Kmos: I couldn't find any reference to
<Kmos> persia: i'll provide it
<persia> 04e5/5115 in the source (and I looked).
<persia> Err.  04e6/5115
<nenolod> Fujitsu, DarkMageZ, so basically 1.2.11 fixes some of the open issues in 1.2.10
<Kmos> persia: +  - SCM Micro SCR 335
<Kmos> persia: at .dif.gz - http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/ccid/ccid_1.3.1-1.diff.gz
<Kmos> .diff.gz
<nenolod> and that's all
<nenolod> ;p
<persia> Kmos: I don't see 04e6 in that diff.gz
<Kmos> nenolod: they're working in xmms2 i think..
<nenolod> Kmos, correct.
<Kmos> persia: it's applied upstream the support for the reader.
<nenolod> Kmos, when i say "XMMS is dead", i mean XMMS1.
<nenolod> Kmos, XMMS2 is a client-server thing
<persia> Kmos: I can't find support for the 5115 device in the upstream udev rules file either.
<Kmos> persia: i'll inspect it :)
<Kmos> but the debian maintainer put SCM Micro SCR 335 in the debian/control
<Kmos> :(
<Fujitsu> Debian isn't perfect. When dropping Ubuntu changes, you should always check that they've done what they say.
<persia> Kmos: Everyone makes mistakes, and they need to be checked.  If you check it carefully, I don't have to, which makes me happy, and then I'm more likely to have time to help you with other things.
<Kmos> persia: i'm sorry.. i'll check again if debian made a mistake and report it at BTS.. never happened to be, but there is a first time for everything
<Kmos> about the cynthiune.app , it builds fine here at my pbuilder. don't know why it FTBFS
<persia> Kmos: 0.9.5-5 builds fine for you?
<Kmos> i've 0.9.5-6
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/cynthiune.app.html
<persia> Kmos: Right.  So the title & description for bug #163344 should probably be different (and I'll fix it)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163344 in cynthiune.app "Please sync cynthiune.app 0.9.5-5  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163344
<Kmos> requestsync don't put the latest one
<Kmos> :(
<Kmos> persia: check if it put -6 in the description
<persia> Kmos: That's another case where you should check things...
<Kmos> yeah
<effie_jayx> hey ... motu hopeful here... Quick Q does it take too long after Install pbuilder and do pbuilder create
<effie_jayx> ?
 * effie_jayx is currently praticing with building a package and is using pbuilder for the first time
<jpatrick> effie_jayx: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PbuilderHowto - should help you
<effie_jayx> jpatrick,  I am there... my quick question was... does it take long? is it normal for it to take long?
<geser> effie_jayx: depends on your internet connection to download the debs
<effie_jayx> geser, ok I see. it's downloading now
<frenchy> ping: quail
<effie_jayx> thanks
<effie_jayx> it's creating the base tar
<frenchy> ping: jpatrick
<Kmos> persia: http://pastebin.com/d518bc452
<persia> Kmos: Right, so maybe there's something odd happening to qa.debian.org ?
<jpatrick> hi frenchy
<frenchy> jpatrick, Hi, I'm the developer of Me TV (me-tv).
<Fujitsu> I know that madison.cgi was doing odd things 24 hours ago.
<jpatrick> frenchy: ok.
<frenchy> jpatrick, a day late.
<quail> frenchy: pong
<Kmos> persia: yep.. reported to elmo :)
<frenchy> jpatrick, just wanted to confirm that I've got the versioning thing right now.
<persia> Kmos: That's not always the best person to bother...
<frenchy> jpatrick, I've sought some help but they couldn't explain a lot of "why" questions?
<Kmos> persia: he's the best i know about server things :)
<frenchy> jpatrick, thanks for reviewing the package BTW.
<persia> Kmos: Sure, but he's busy.  Checking to see if it is generally known, and maybe filing a bug is better.
<Kmos> persia: yeah
<Kmos> i'll do it
<jpatrick> frenchy: me-tv isn't in Debian or Ubuntu it's version in changelog should be 0.4.4-0ubuntu1
<Kmos> Fujitsu: or you want to do it ?
<persia> Kmos: Thanks, and please try to make sure I don't feel the need to complain at you again :)
<Fujitsu> Kmos: I believe it to be a known issue.
<frenchy> jpatrick, sweet ... I've got "me-tv (0.4.4-0ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low"
<jpatrick> frenchy: README.Debian can be removed as "if none, delete this file"
<jpatrick> frenchy: should be "hardy"
<frenchy> jpatrick, Oh everything else I understand,
<frenchy> jpatrick, just the versioning.
<Kmos> persia: i hope not :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, looks like ftp-master might not be backing up to merkel any more (note the warning when running rmadison).
<frenchy> jpatrick, Ooops hardy
<jpatrick> frenchy: and since the other versions aren't in either, this should be a "* Initial release" in changelog
<frenchy> jpatrick, got ... excellent ... now here's the question.  Why is the version 0ubntu1 when it's not native?
<frenchy> *ubuntu
<jpatrick> frenchy: because this isn't a native package
<frenchy> jpatrick, I thought that non natives did not have 0ubuntu1. Are you telling me that they do?
<jpatrick> frenchy: I think natives are only for Ubuntu programs only
<persia> Does anyone know much about translations mangling for universe?  I'm not sure what to do about bug #163394, and would appreciate any suggestions
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163394 in gbrainy "[hardy] Please rebuild gbrainy from source" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163394
<frenchy> jpatrick, oh absolutely ... I've received some conflicting advice when it comes to this.  So you are telling me that non-native packages have a version XubuntuY?
<jpatrick> frenchy: yes
<quail> frenchy: pschulz01 is working on the PPC package for Me TV but he first got tobackup and upgrade to gutsy
<frenchy> jpatrick, purging previous data.
<Kmos> !info gbrainy hardy
<ubotu> gbrainy: a brain teaser game and trainer to have fun and to keep your brain trained. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3-1 (hardy), package size 153 kB, installed size 692 kB
 * Fujitsu checks build logs to see what pkgstriptranslations is doing.
<Kmos> it has the latest one
<Fujitsu> Right, so pkgstriptranslations ripped the translations out, and then sent them conveniently to /dev/null.
<Fujitsu> Not much we can do about that, other than convincing people to give us our damn langpacks.
<frenchy> quail, Ta.
<persia> Right.  So sending it back won't do any good.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Fujitsu> It was ogred to universe, so it wasn't due to accidentally being in main.
<persia> Hmm.  I'd like to encourage Catalan speakers to also exercise their brains, but I'm not sure how to accomplish that.
<frenchy> jpatrick: Do you have a DVB card?
<jpatrick> nop
<Fujitsu> persia: Ask people nicely when they're going to develop the infrastructure to give universe translations, I guess.
<persia> Fujitsu: Is there any way to block pkgstriptranslations for universe in the meantime?  I'm sure this affects lots more packages.
<Fujitsu> persia: One would think it would make sense to only run it if a package is in main or restricted, but that is apparently not how it works.
<persia> Hmm..  That sounds like a reasonable request.  Now to see if there is already a Soyuz bug...
<frenchy> jpatrick: One last question, does that now mean I have to update the debian/changelog version as well as my AC_INIT() version in configure.ac every time.  Is there a fail-safe for this.
<frenchy> ?
<persia> Fujitsu: Do you think this is just another case of bug #136399, or is it sufficiently different to deserve it's own?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136399 in soyuz "PPA builders performing normal Ubuntu binary mangling" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136399
<frenchy> Is it the job of the reviewers to test the application, or simply the packaging?
<jpatrick> frenchy: no idea
<Fujitsu> persia: I'd recommend another bug.
<jpatrick> frenchy: both
<frenchy> jpatrick: Ta.
<frenchy> jpatrick: roger that, I might try and find a MOTU with a DVB card also because I imagine that a reviewer like yourself isn't likely to approve it if you don't know if it works.
<frenchy> jpatrick: Does that sound right?
<jpatrick> frenchy: I mostly focus on KDE packages
<persia> frenchy: It's still worth pushing through REVU a few times until you get the packaging perfect: the last steps will just take a little longer.
<Fujitsu> persia: Erk, sorry, I had to move irssi onto my laptop earlier, and X is still being nasty.
<frenchy> persia: Thanks for your comments also.  Totally agree, need to get the packaging right first.
<persia> Fujitsu: No worries.  I didn't have anything to say to you whilst you were gone :P
<persia> frenchy: Today's the best day for that: it's REVU day, so if you can fix things quickly, and ask in-channel, you're likely to get quick reviews.
<frenchy> persia: Thanks for that. Uploading latest source now.
<frenchy> persia, jpatrick: I thank all of you kindly for your assistance and request that, at your earliest convenience, you please review Me TV.  How's that?
<frenchy> ;-)
<jpatrick> frenchy: I will :)
<persia> frenchy: In my opinion, the ideal advertisement includes 1) the REVU url for the package, 2) the package name, 3) the status (needs first advocate, needs second advocate), and 4) a note saying you've just uploaded a new version.
<persia> frenchy: But for now, that was good.  Next time :)
<frenchy> persia: yanking those lines for next time.
<pkern> Oh REVU day again?
<pkern> Quite often recently ;)
<persia> pkern: Every Monday.
<pochu> persia: today's Sunday ;)
<pochu> Oh, at least in my TZ :)
 * pochu shuts up
<persia> pochu: Right.  TZ skew.  It's Monday in some parts of the pacific islands, but not much more at this point.  NZ is real soon now.
<pkern> So a REVU day lasts how long...? ;)
<persia> pkern: 49 hours
 * pkern giggles.
<pochu> So no REVU day for me yet :)
<Fujitsu> pkern: Oh dear, quite a few FTBFS bugs coming in...
<pochu> (nope that I'd do anything anyway...)
<dfiloni> pochu: can you review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8 ?
<persia> dfiloni: I'd strongly recommend advertising generally: you'll likely get a better response than for just one person.
<dfiloni> I did it but I didn't receive any reply
<nand`> hiya! I'd like a review of the ike package please : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike
<minghua> persia: It's wxwidgets, I don't think many people are qualified to review that...
<pochu> dfiloni: specially since I was going to give up with wx when you appeared ;)
<pochu> minghua: and surely I'm not ;)
<nand`> (it should be almost done!)
<pkern> Fujitsu: Sorry ):
<persia> minghua: Well, pochu and I may be more experienced with it, but anyone can take a look to see if it's relatively sane.
<Fujitsu> pkern: /me fixes a couple.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Thanks (=
<Fujitsu> pkern: No, thankyou.
<frenchy> Any MOTUs with a DVB card?
<pkern> I think some are strange.  Especially those with failing test cases...
<pkern> frenchy: Me, but I'm not at home. ):
<persia> nand`: Did you resolve the upstream licensing issue?
<frenchy> pkern: Have you tried Me TV?
<nand`> persia: Yes, it's done, he updated all his files with licences.
<persia> nand`: Excellent.
<pkern> frenchy: No.
<nand`> persia: he did a private new release for that, and he is waiting for the package to be accepted to make it public.
<persia> nand`: In that case, we'll have to get it uploaded today :)
<nand`> persia: hÃ©hÃ© :)
<frenchy> pkern: I'd appreciate your feedback whenever you get the chance.  It's not as complete as kaffeine or klear but it's the best way to watch digital TV under GTK.  IMHO.
<pkern> frenchy: What's the package name?
<frenchy> me-tv
<pkern> A gtk application would be nice, but it's neither in Ubuntu nor in Debian.  On REVU I suppose?
<pkern> I might try it tomorrow.  Does it use gstreamer to access the DVB stream?
<dfiloni> persia: can you review wxwidgets2.8?
<quail> pkern: it uses xine
<frenchy> pkern: Yeah http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv
<persia> dfiloni: Certainly, but I've a bit of a queue right now.  I still encourage you to ask the channel, rather than specific people.  If nobody else gets to it first, I'll have a look.
<frenchy> quail: Thanks dale.
<pkern> Hm... kaffeine used xine, too, IIRC.
<quail> :-), I just got back
<dfiloni> thanks persia
<frenchy> pkern: I've actually written a GStreamer engine but it's not as good as libxine.  I found libxine's handling of streams to much more robust as well as GStreamer use to have some issues with FIFOs and and MPEG2 TS.  Those may be fixed now.
<minghua> dfiloni: I'm looking at wxwidgets2.8.  Did you use the previous Ubuntu package as a basis, or did you start your packaging from scratch?
<pkern> I recall that it needed a special demuxer... if the xine backend is stable, fine.
<dfiloni> I use the previous package
<persia> pkern: Are you filtering out the known FTBFSs, or publishing all of them?
<dfiloni> minghua: I used previous package.
<pkern> persia: Mainly pushing all of them.  Feel free to close as duplicate.
<pkern> I filter out arch-specific stuff and broken deps, though.
<frenchy> pkern: That's correct, I see you've also spent many hours reading.  I tried that demuxer and it never worked ... but I think that was because I was pushing it through a FIFO.
<persia> pkern: I'm not sure of duplicates, but we're tracking a number at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/, and I'm just worried about leftovers.
<persia> pkern: On the other hand, don't stop, as it's good to have these tested.
<persia> (although pre-DIF is early: the library transitions haven't been processed yet)
<pkern> persia: I'm just filing them as new/unknown, not confirmed/medium.
<minghua> persia: Is it normal for wxwidgets .orig.tar.gz to have a debian/ directory?
<pkern> persia: I am currently testing my environment looking for rebuildd to improve in the meantime.
<persia> minghua: Unfortunately.  The packaging is a bit odd.
<pkern> I already saw things to be improved, like using quinn-diff with p-a-s.
<minghua> persia: That's why I said not many people are qualified to review it...
 * Fujitsu grumbles at a lot of builds failing due to bug #160439
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160439 in soyuz "Some builds fail when they should depwait" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160439
<persia> pkern: That's what I thought.  If you can get your engine working, we're in great shape for real rebuild tests later.  I'm just a little worried about perceived bug volume growth before we've everything in place: I don't want to see any complaints about mass bug filing.
<minghua> persia: I am looking at the interdiff, and completely confused.
 * pkern giggles at wxwidgets remembering all the discussions on @d-d
<pkern> *#d-d
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Right.  I forgot just how confusing it was.  Sorry :)
<persia> pkern: Both actually, mail & IRC :)
<pkern> persia: I would need more build slaves still.  I am not in the position like Lucas on this.
<pkern> But rebuildd needs build slave support first.
<persia> pkern: If you can get the code perfect, we can ask for resources.  If we had resources, and not a daemon, we aren't in as strong a position :)
<pkern> Aye.
 * persia requests someone else to look at the merges and SRUs in the U-U-S queue
<Fujitsu> persia: I see three merges and no syncs. Is that wrong?
<rexbron> persia: Thanks for the review. I am in discussion with the upstream dev regarding having an open dialouge pop up when no organ file is loaded
<persia> Fujitsu: I just finished going through the queue?
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, so you mean in the future, not right now.
<persia> Fujitsu: Essentially I forget -v or -sa so often on merges, I don't like to sponsor them.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
 * rexbron now looks for the second ack
<minghua> dfiloni: Looking at the 2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3 version, it seems the upstream debian/ dir is moved to debian-upstream/ in the repacked upstream tarball (.orig.tar.gz).  You package put that change into .diff.gz, which is very confusing.
<minghua> persia: ^^^ I hope I didn't say anything wrong.
<persia> rexbron: Great.  The blank interface is a little odd.
<rexbron> persia: The design methodology of genpo is a little odd. It is a gui app that the dev intends to be called from the commandline...
<persia> minghua: No, but I haven't looked yet.  If it's that confusing, it sounds like the repack was dropped, which isn't ideal.
<rexbron> ergo, the command line switches
<persia> rexbron: Your ,desktop file makes it a lot easier.  I actually find a lot of audio apps are close to the command line, but a fully GUI environment shouldn't be that far away.
<dfiloni> minghua: I didn't move debian directory in .orig.tar.gz
<minghua> dfiloni: Yes.  I am saying that you should move it.
<rexbron> persia: Hopefully people will read the manpage if they need to use the commandline options
<persia> rexbron: Right.  That's why it's there :)  Now it just needs an icon...
<rexbron> persia: Ya, I am going to hop into -artwork
<dfiloni> minghua: I've used get-orig-source, do you think I sould move the directory in that target?
<minghua> dfiloni: Hmm, then the get-orig-source needs to be fixed.  Let me look.
 * effie_jayx is done with the two hours... update package recipe.... CHECKED... :D 
<rexbron> persia: re: openlibs and the recursive chrpath rule, I need to learn bash scripting first :P
<minghua> dfiloni: I don't see a get-orig-source target in debian/rules?
<persia> rexbron: Not bash scripting, make-fu.  http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
<rexbron> Hey everyone! Genpo has one ack and is looking for a second: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=genpo
<persia> rexbron: The distinction is important because 1) debian/rules is not a shell script, 2) the buildds use dash for /bin/sh, and 3) it's easier to read.
<rexbron> lol
<dfiloni> minghua: get-orig-source target is at the end of debian/rules file
<StevenK> persia: Not only do the buildds use it, it is used as /bin/sh by default.
<StevenK> Heh. I didn't think what I said was that bad.
<persia> StevenK: True, but I've seen lots of bashisms appear to work for local builds.
<StevenK> persia: Changing the /bin/sh symlink is easy.
<persia> StevenK: No, it's just that I'm used to vi mappings, and my client maps ^] to "leave channel".
<StevenK> Blink.
<StevenK> Which client is that?
<Kmos> persia: u're right, ccid source doesn't have support for SCM SCR 335 ... :-( Now.. i've mailed debian maintainer about that situation, because he mentions in the control description about support for it.
<pkern> Yay, mail backlog of a night cleared.
<minghua> dfiloni: I see.  So you wrote that one yourself, but apparently it's not good enough.
 * StevenK uses esc-n to switch channels
<persia> StevenK: Yes it is, but I still think that because it's not changed on the buildds is especially relevant for packagers (pidgin)
<StevenK> persia: Agreed
<persia> Kmos: Thanks for tracking that down.  Perhaps you'd like to prepare a merge candidate, and retitle the bug?
<Kmos> persia: yeah.. but not now, thanks
<dfiloni> minghua: why?
<minghua> dfiloni: One minor comment:  Please keep 80 column-width in debian/changelog.
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Can you possibly convince your FTBFS checker to exclude removed packages?
<dfiloni> minghua: ok
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, I was thinking about it yesterday... I caught a couple of them...
<persia> DktrKranz: Fujitsu: It might also be worth rehoming it now that the access issues are resolved.
<minghua> dfiloni: As I said, the previous package, 2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3, doesn't have a debian/ dir in the .orig.tar.gz.  Yours have.  This makes reviewing much more difficult.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's a good point.
<minghua> dfiloni: And if you are going to move debian/ to debian-upstream/, I feel it's better to do it in .orig.tar.gz, not in .diff.gz.
<dfiloni> minghua: ok, I'm editing get-orig-source target to move debian directory to debian-upstream
<persia> dfiloni: More generally, the secret recipe for making an orig.tar.gz for wxwidgets is a bit tricky.  You might want to play with interdiff a few times to see how small you can make the differences between your diff.gz and the diff.gz from the repositories.
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: If you can set it up in your /, I'll repoint the qa.ubuntuwire.com link shortly.
<persia> s/\/~/?
<Fujitsu> s@/@~/
<Fujitsu> Ergh, I suck.
<persia> Right.
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, sure. How did you schedule its cron execution?
<DktrKranz> s/\//~/
<DktrKranz> that's the correct one :)
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: I whipped up a little script to pipe the output of the script to a temporary file, then move that file over the old one, then added a line to my crontab to run it at an arbitrary time daily.
<minghua> dfiloni: Previous package changed include/wx/graphics.h, src/gtk/{button,settings,window}.cpp, wxPython/src/wx.pth, and wxPython/wx/build/build_options.py.  What happened to those patches?
<DktrKranz> It could be worth to test temp file size before moving it to index.html, since my script does not handle automagically LP timeouts
<DktrKranz> and if they happens, page is blank
<Fujitsu> DktrKranz: Ah, good point.
<minghua> So many people touched wxwidgets before...
<minghua> persia: Does wxwidgets packaging have a VCS repo?  (It really should...)
<pkern> It has.
<pkern> But that one is probably too old for you? :-P
<persia> minghua: No.  2.4 and 2.6 are made with special secret ingredients.  2.8 is the result of expediency.
<persia> pkern: Which?
<pkern> http://git.debian.org/?p=freewx/wx.git;a=summary I'd guess
<pkern> No 2.8 in there ;)
<persia> Excellent!  That wasn't there when I last was looking at WX closely (early spring).
<Fujitsu> persia: That's rather relative, and could be interpreted incorrectly by 6 months.
<pkern> persia: Maybe you want to talk with ron on #d-d... ;)
 * minghua sighs.
<pkern> Fujitsu, persia: I'll step back from #u-motu.  If there are concerns or questions about the rebuild just pm me, I'll stay on Freenode.
<persia> pkern: Not right now: I've checked with him before, but my WX interest is mostly about killing 2.4
<minghua> ... and thinks about the "not morally acceptable" of the dictionary explanation of "expediency".
<persia> Fujitsu: Good point.  Thanks.
<persia> minghua: I think you have a different dictionary than I.  I was thinking mostly about the fastest way to accomplish a goal.
<dfiloni> how can I move debian directory to debian-upstream directory without unpacking .tar file?
<Fujitsu> I see the... erm... Hardy theme mockups from some random user who edited the wiki page have made Digg as being semi-official.
<persia> dfiloni: You can't.  You need to unpack, move things around, and repack.  If you do this in get-orig-source, the next person has a recipe for when they do it.
<minghua> persia: I was looking at http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=27036&dict=CALD.  But yes, m-w.com seems to give a rather different explanation.
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Interesting.  While I agree that in the interests of expediency, one may ignore moral constraints, I hadn't thought of it being a primary association.
<persia> "The fastest way", rather than "The right way" or "The good way".
 * Fujitsu heads to bed.
<pochu> night Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Night pochu.
<minghua> dfiloni: Is there any particular reason that you are changing whitespace in the .PHONY part of debian/rules?
<minghua> Good night Fujitsu.
<Fujitsu> Night minghua.
 * Fujitsu stabs Kmos' quit message.
<dfiloni> minghua: no
<minghua> dfiloni: Can you fix that too?  Besides the repacking upstream tarball issue and the dropped patches issue, the package looks good to me.
<minghua> dfiloni: If those patches should be dropped, you want to mention it in debian/changelog.
<dfiloni> minghua: ok, I'm fixing that
<minghua> dfiloni: You probably should consult the previous uploaders about what is the best way to repack the tarball and to write the get-orig-source rule.
<persia> nand`: ike looks fine, and suitable for multiverse.  If you want universe, you'll have to repack.  Let me know if you want an advocate for multiverse.
<DktrKranz> persia, regarding bug 162843, do you mind if I mentor and sponsor it once a debdiff will be provided?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162843 in docbook2odf "Package dependency missing : perlmagick" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162843
<persia> minghua: Thanks for reviewing that.
<persia> DktrKranz: Not at all: it's a trivial fix: just change the changelog entry, and the debdiff is perfect.  Thanks for watching it.
 * DktrKranz likes SRUs
<dfiloni> minghua: could I fix whitespace in .PHONY part?
<minghua> dfiloni: Of course you can... But is that what you mean?
<persia> DktrKranz: We were talking earlier about reviving motu-swat, to focus on SRUs and security issues.  If you're not a member, you might want to try to join.
<minghua> persia: Sure... I use it too, and help REVU when I can.
<persia> DktrKranz: There's also 4 SRUs in the sponsors queue if you like.
<DktrKranz> persia, I am happy to help with SRUs.
<nand`> nand`: Thanks for the review. But i'm confused concerning the repos... Why can't it go to universe in its current form?
<dfiloni> minghua: I did it to see \s at the same coloum
<persia> nand`: Because RFCs cannot be modified, so aren't DFSG-free (although they are free enough for multiverse).
<DktrKranz> persia, indeed. I need to ping pitti to be sure about versioning for cases where feisty version == gutsy version
<nand`> persia: DFSG?
<persia> Right.  That's for next week then.
<DktrKranz> Yes, I don't want to bother him on Sunday
<persia> nand`: Debian Free Software Guidelines (http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines)
<persia> nand`: Specifically point 3
<minghua> dfiloni: Then maybe breaking the last line is better than changing all other lines?
<nand`> persia: Ok I see. But the RFCs are not distributed with the binary packages : is their presence in the source package the problem?
<minghua> dfiloni: Also, note all changes in debian/changelog.
<persia> nand`: It's generally frowned upon, as the source packages are also distributed.  You could ask an archive-admin for an official position, but I've previously seen package splits for this.
<persia> nand`: More critically, it's not ideal to have it not reflected in debian/copyright, as this is intended to be a reference source when looking to extract source from packages.
<nand`> persia: Lots of trouble for some RFC files upstream puts here for documentation...
<persia> nand`: Yep.  It's annoying: personally, I like having a local mirror of all the RFCs, but it's also important to provide a standard reference location of copyright information when distributing a collection.
<nand`> persia: It's the package going to multiverse that annoys me... So unless the RFCs files are removed, it can't go to universe, right?
<persia> nand`: That's my understanding, but I'm not an archive-admin, so I may not be correct.
<nand`> persia: I guess i will poke upstream again and see
<persia> nand`: Actually, I think upstream is being nice by distributing the RFCs, and they ought do so: I would recommend a repack, as it's a local distribution-specific policy issue.
 * nand` hides at upstream rumbling at debian packaging
<nand`> persia: Ok, but what do you mean by repacking? Adding the reference on the copyright file?
<persia> nand`: Create get-orig-source rule in debian/rules that unpacks the source, deletes all the RFCs, and repacks to make the orig.tar.gz
<nand`> persia: hmm! Didn't know this trick!
<nand`> persia: I'll take care of that, thanks again once more for the infos!
<rexbron> persia: I have found a guy who is going to make an icon for genpo
<persia> nand`: No worries.  Thanks for the packaging work.
<persia> rexbron: Excellent!
 * rexbron would prefer it to be as an update to a package though :)
<persia> rexbron: No reason for it not to be: it's not a blocking issue.
<rexbron> persia: Also re: openlibs ChangeLog, the upstream svn file is empty :/
<persia> rexbron: That's fine.  It'd be nice, but it's not the only problem.  If you can fix the rest, you can get away with not having a Changelog.
<james_w> If a package is maintained by ubuntu-desktop, and I believe it should be synced, do I contact them to do it?
<DktrKranz> james_w, you could ask in #ubuntu-desktop for sponsorship
<persia> james_w: You could, or you could file a bug requesting a sync, which should notify the team, and they'll review for possible forwarding to the appropriate groups.
<james_w> ok, thanks. I think I'll check with them first, as this is my first sync.
<rexbron> persia: sistpoty reviewed genpo and suggested merging genpo-organs into the main package if it will not grow to more than a few megs. What are your thoughts?
<rexbron> persia: I see why he suggests it
<persia> rexbron: It's a size thing.  If it will be small, I'd agree, as it will compress more.
<rexbron> ok, that is not a problem
<dfiloni> minghua: done
<persia> dfiloni: You've uploaded a new rev?
<dfiloni> yes
<dfiloni> persia: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=wxwidgets2.8
<persia> dfiloni: OK.  I'd one more open slot in my REVU queue for this evening, and you've just filled it.  I'll likely be about 20 minutes before I get to it.
<dfiloni> persia: thanks
<rexbron> persia: I think I have addressed sistpoty's comments
<persia> rexbron: And there is a new upload?  I don't know that I'll be up long enough to look tonight, but if I've time, I will.
<rexbron> persia: Yes, there is a new upload. Thanks :)
<persia> rexbron: I had a bit whilst waiting for a build, and I notice that your get-orig-source isn't working.  Did something change?
<rexbron> Hmm
<rexbron> I will take another look
<minghua> dfiloni: Thanks for the work.  I don't think I have time for a second review, but I see that persia will do that.
<persia> minghua: In progress
<minghua> dfiloni: And persia knows better about wxwidgets than I do anyway.
<rexbron> persia: I think I need to use the --force-download option
<persia> dfiloni: Looks like you've done a great volume of work here: thanks.  There's a bit more: I'm drafting a comment.
<persia> rexbron: Maybe: I tried that, and it didn't seem to be enough.  I'm not sure why: I ran as `debian/rules get-orig-source` after deleting the orig.tar.gz
<rexbron> persia: looking into it
<rexbron> persia: I also realized that the get-orig-source rule does not remove the .pcs file
<persia> rexbron: Interesting.  Perhaps something changed whilst you were fighting with it before, maybe with the new upstream.
<persia> dfiloni: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=694 updated with a comment, if you don't mind one more try.  The package could be uploaded in the current state, but if you've already done so much you might want to try to hit the rest :)
<dfiloni> persia: get-orig-source doesn't work?
<persia> dfiloni: No, it doesn't have anything to download the source.
<persia> dfiloni: You'll want wget or uscan or somthing.
<dfiloni> persia: do you think i could include wget... ?
<dfiloni> ok
<persia> dfiloni: Sure.  That works.
<persia> dfiloni: Unfortunately, it's hit my time limit tonight.  If it's not uploaded the next time I look, I'll take another look.
<persia> dfiloni: And thank you very, very, very much for working so hard to clean up the package.  It almost looks normal :)
<dfiloni> persia: It's an hard work but I do it with pleasure
<Ubulette> hi, i'm looking for a sponsor for a merge. anyone ?
<minghua> Ubulette: It would help if you give the bug number.
<Ubulette> bug 163271
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163271 in xulrunner "Please merge xulrunner 1.8.1.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163271
<minghua> Hmm, xulrunner.
<warp10> I am going to tackle my first merges, and I don't understand why do we have two tools for the same job, MaM and DaD
<warp10> Is there any special reason why I should use just one of them?
<Nafallo> MoM and DaD might spawn of a CHiLD in the future if we're lucky ;-)
<pochu> Nafallo: ROFL
<Lutin> :)
<pochu> warp10: dad has comment support, whereas mom is the 'official' one.
<warp10> pochu: so when I work on a merge maybe I should use both of them?
<Nafallo> GAAH
<pochu> warp10: no need. if you are going to leave a comment use dad. otherwise use the one you like more :)
<pochu> but the have the same functionality, so no need to use both ;)
<Nafallo> don't keep your foot close to the powerbutton of the PDU and then try to drop your food/test your reflexes.
<pochu> lol
<Nafallo> things go dark...
<warp10> pochu: ok, thanks. But I will like very much a CHiLD :)
<Nafallo> I want a button the backport stuff in CHiLD ;-)
<Nafallo> s/he/o/
<minghua> Is ChiLD going to be both official and have comment, or neither?
<minghua> :-P
<Lutin> that's what sort of got discussed a while back
<Nafallo> minghua: probably depends on if DaD ack that he's the father :-P
<Ubulette> minghua: what about xulrunner ? ;)
<minghua> Ubulette: Not something I am capable to review.
<Nafallo> or rather if MoM acks to be the mother.
<Ubulette> minghua, yep, it's a big beast
<geser> Ubulette: have you asked asac to review the xulrunner merge?
<Nafallo> I bet both MoM, DaD and CHiLD would love PiZZA
<geser> ordered with an iPHONE?
<Nafallo> hehe. why not :-)
<Ubulette> geser, yes sure but for once, i wanted to follow the process
<Nafallo> the development team behind PiZZA has to be named OWeN
<Ubulette> geser, i'm familiar with the package, i did the xulrunner-1.9 in gutsy/hardy
 * Nafallo goes back to hiding and eating pizza now :-)
 * jdong starts triaging feisty-backports
<soothsayer> Is there some place I can get Ubuntu packages for Mplayer subversion trunk?
<jdong> not that I'm aware of; we don't build packages against mplayer svn
<jdong> but our packaging can probably be spliced on top of a trunk checkout and would work
<soothsayer> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/mplayer/trunk
<soothsayer> What does that hold?
<jdong> soothsayer: that looks like a bzr mirror of the mplayer svn repository
<soothsayer> jdong: Okay thanks. That's what I suspected.
<jeromeg> jdong: hy, are you the John Dong of ubuntu-backporters ?
<jdong> jeromeg: yes I am :)
<jeromeg> jdong: good :)
<jeromeg> jdong: i'm one of the ones bugging you with backports requests :)
<jdong> ah yes, name looked familiar :)
<jeromeg> jdong: is bug #128896 doable ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128896 in rhythmbox "Please backport rhythmbox 0.11.1 to Feisty" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128896
<jeromeg> and second question :)
<jeromeg> is it possible to join ubuntu-backporters ? If yes, what are the conditions ?
<jdong> jeromeg: if I recall correctly that rhythmbox backport requires libgpod dependency to be bumped down
<jdong> and to join backporters, the main requirement is you have to be MOTU first
<jeromeg> jdong: I'm running a backported version of rhythmbox without any other backports
<jeromeg> jdong: ok :)
<jdong> jeromeg: it does not build without that dependency change, right?
<jeromeg> jdong: of course it does
<jdong> lemme try it now
<jeromeg> or I wouldn't be bugging you, I know how difficult it is to get a source backport
<jdong> DIST=feisty prevu lp:rhythmbox/gutsy
<jdong> grr
<jeromeg> ?
<jdong> wrong terminal
<jeromeg> I'm not used to prevu
<jeromeg> ah ok
<jdong> I'm gonna give it a build test and see where that goes
<jeromeg> In my feisty pbuilder it builds fine
<jdong> prevu rocks for the lazy :)
<jeromeg> jdong :)
<jpatrick> jdong: could I join? I have some KDE packages which didn't make it info Gutsy
<jdong> jpatrick: you just need some packages done, or you want to commit yourself to backports triaging too? :)
<jpatrick> both :)
<jdong> sure, apply to the team :)
<jdong> always great to have more hands on the project
<jpatrick> jdong: but do we dput to gutsy-backports or is it something else?
 * jeromeg will a motu one day
<andy_js> lol
<jdong> jpatrick: no, archive managers mangle the sources for us. Set status to In Progress and subscribe ubuntu-archive on backports ready to go into the archive
<jpatrick> jdong: ok
<andy_js> I'd like to submit a package, how do I do that?
<jeromeg> andy_js: for backports ?
<jdong> jpatrick: on your first few approvals you should probably mention that you are a new member so archive managers don't automatically ignore you ;-)
<jpatrick> hehe
<andy_js> jeromeg: well, its a app I'm working on.
<andy_js> so I'm not sure
<jeromeg> andy_js: so it's a new package ?
<jdong> jpatrick: currently my criteria for approval for non-libraries is simply that it builds and installs in a pbuilder login environment without dpkg errors
<jdong> jpatrick: Use status Confirmed for stuff that builds in pbuilder but you have reason to suspect regressions and want further testing
<jpatrick> jdong: yes, I built all my packages in a gutsy pbuilder without issues
<andy_js> jeromeg:  well, its never been in ubuntu before, so yes
<jeromeg> andy_js: so you should put it on revu
 * jpatrick knotes everything
<andy_js> how do I do that?
<jpatrick> !packaging > andy_js
<jeromeg> andy_js: i'm searching the howto on the wkiki
<andy_js> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<jeromeg> andy_js: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FPackages%2FNew
<jeromeg> everything should be here
<jdong> jpatrick: approved
<jpatrick> jdong: thank you
<jdong> jeromeg: looks like the build will go through. I have no idea why I had the impression it wouldn't
<jeromeg> jdong: you were right but 4 monthes ago
<jdong> jeromeg: ah, that's probably why :D
<jeromeg> jdong: in june it failed to build but now it's ok
<jdong> Mez: you're gonna make fun of me again, so I'll say shut up first, but I accidently hit approve instead of decline on *another* backports join request :D
<jdong> sorry to send that guy on a YAY! aww..... rollercoaster ride too
 * Mez removes jdong's admin privileges for the group
<Mez> :P
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> Mez: in my defense (1) The buttons should be labeled Cancel or Allow (2) Cancel should be red and Allow should be green.
<jdong> :D
<Mez> I see you approved jpatrick though
<jdong> yeah, he was meant to be approved
<Mez> yeah, no, I was just checking the email and thought you'd declined him and was gonna say that I thought he woulda made a good addition
<jeromeg> jdong: so it builded ?
<jeromeg> s/builded/built
 * jeromeg hopes no one has seen it
<jdong> jeromeg: it's building
<jeromeg> ok
<jeromeg> it's true it's a long build :)
<jdong> core 2 duos are only so fast....
<jdong> *awaits Santa to bring him a 45nm quad*
<jeromeg> :)
<jdong> jeromeg: build success
 * jeromeg waves
<jdong> jeromeg: approved
<jeromeg> jdong: cool
<jeromeg> getdeb -> -1
<jeromeg> :)
<jdong> :)
<andy_js> if I build a package, can someone here review it for me?
<jeromeg> jdong: i'll test a few builds for requested backports to help you
<jdong> jeromeg: thanks
<jeromeg> np
<jdong> jeromeg: it seems like we have the biggest backlog in feisty
<jdong> I just spent like 6 hours clearing Gutsy in the past two days :)
<jeromeg> jdong: yep i've seen it, you are doing a good job
<jdong> jeromeg: haha if someone would do my MIT homework I'd be glad to do backports all day :D
<jeromeg> :)
<jeromeg> i've my share of homework...
<jdong> don't we all :)
<jeromeg> yep
<jeromeg> jdong : pingus builds fine (bug 144682)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144682 in feisty-backports "Please backport pingus from Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144682
<jdong> jeromeg: thanks; since it's a *game* I'll go ahead and approve it based on that
<jeromeg> jdong: bug 129555 seems quite risky
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129555 in feisty-backports "Please backport Mono 1.2.4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129555
<jeromeg> jdong: as it's a base for tomboy which is a default app
<noolness> why not just fix tomboy to work on a newer version of mono?
<noolness> unless the gnome project did something stupid like change all the c# bindings for gtk+
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jeromeg> jdong: bug 132871 is ok too
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132871 in feisty-backports "Please backport PiTiVi to Feisty from Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132871
<jdong> jeromeg: thanks, dealt with
<jeromeg> jdong: i'm testing another few ones, I think you can close the pidgin one it's not possible without modifying the deps
<jeromeg> however after modifying the deps it works great
<jeromeg> but we have to backport every plugin
<jeromeg> one by one
<jdong> jeromeg: yeah, I honestly don't like doing the pidgin backport for those reasons, but then again so many people want pidgin I've left it open for the possibility someone would take that responsbility
<jeromeg> jdong: ok...
<jdong> :-/ I'm a bit undecided on how to proceed with that
<jeromeg> maybe you could ask to the pidgin maintainer in Ubuntu ?
<jdong> we could just say "Ok we'll backport pidgin core and whatever plugins we can, breakages are known and those installing the backport should be aware of that"
<jdong> but I personally don't feel comfortable saying that
<jdong> ideally this is the point that a PPA should step in
<jdong> 14:23 < jdong> we could just say "Ok we'll backport pidgin core and whatever  plugins we can, breakages are known and those installing the  backport should be aware of that"
<jdong> 14:24 < jdong> but I personally don't feel comfortable saying that
<jdong> 14:24 < jdong> ideally this is the point that a PPA should step in
<jdong> jeromeg: ^^
<jeromeg> ok
<jeromeg> a trendy topic :)
<jdong> gutsy-insanely-idiotic-backports repo :)
<jeromeg> :)
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> what is hppa (architecture)?
<jdong> RainCT: HP PA RISC?
<jdong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPPA
<RainCT> dunno, I got a mail that hppa build of kmyfirewall 1.0-1ubuntu4 failed in hardy
<bddebian> Everything fails on hppa and lpia ;-P
<RainCT> i thought Ubuntu supports only i386 and amd64?
<RainCT> ah, it's also a new one?
<jdong> RainCT: I wouldn't care about it
<jdong> RainCT: in other words, pretend it's PPC
<jdong> *ducks*
<bddebian> heh
 * jdong takes on x264 :)
 * TheMuso pops in, notices talk about PPC, and reminds everybody that he is happy to help test PPC build issues etc if people need help...
<jeromeg> jdong: bug 127975 is ok
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127975 in feisty-backports "Please backport gthumb from gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127975
<noolness> well do you need to backport things to a release that doesn't have the long term support anyways? i mean realistically does it matter?
<jeromeg> jdong: for gcompris we should ask to the edubuntu folks as it's one of their defaults app
<Ubulette> hmm, lintian is complaining about changelog-file-not-compressed changelog.Debian, indeed it's not. Am it supposed to do that myself ?? i just call dh_installchangelogs
<jdong> noolness: if there are people who still care about a backport on a supported release, I want to help them out
<jdong> TheMuso: ooh thanks for volunteering
<TheMuso> jdong: I wouldn't if I didn't have a PPC. :)
<noolness> yeah i guess it's nice for people that don't want to upgrade, i mean if it's not going to take time away from other more important things by back porting it
<jdong> TheMuso: I'll almost certainly need some PPC build testing on this x264 merge I'm taking on... last time it took 3 shots and like 2 weeks of buildd turnaround to get x264 built in ppc
<jdong> noolness: I treat the latest stable release with the highest priority anyway
<jdong> noolness: so that's why feisty's lag is so great
<jdong> *GASP* debian-multimedia.org is down!!1
<TheMuso> jdong: Ok, would be happy to help. Just ping me with a package URL if you want something tested.
<jdong> TheMuso: ok, thanks :)
<jeromeg> jdong: for thunderbird it's a bit like piding, we would have to backport the plugins and the locale
<jeromeg> shall I try it ?
<jdong> jeromeg: meh don't bother doing things with a reverse chain
<jeromeg> ok
<jeromeg> jdong: enough for today :) or the ubuntu-archive tema won't be able to cope with my pace !
<jdong> jeromeg: hehe :)
<jeromeg> ciao all
<jdong> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/163644
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163644 in azureus "azureus : la page s'ouvre et se referme presque aussitot" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> my french sucks
<jdong> does that say "The window opens and immediately closes"?
<soothsayer> jdong: Yes
<jdong> merci beaucoup!
<RainCT> Adri2000: hi. did the patch for DaD work?
<jdong> Now I remember why I didn't like importing new x264
<jdong> 5 minute merge job, 3 hours of following reverse-dep chain
<Kmos> bug 163208
<Kmos> can someone help to answer this guy ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163208 in exaile "Please remove debian directory from tarball" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163208
<james_w> Kmos: which one?
<Kmos> [21:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163208 in exaile "Please remove debian directory from tarball" [Undecided,New]  10:<https://launchpad.net/bugs/163208>
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163208 in exaile "Please remove debian directory from tarball" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163208
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163208 in exaile "Please remove debian directory from tarball" [Undecided,New]
<Kmos> this one
<jdong> siretart: I've spent a good chunk of time today analyzing bug #138854 and feel sufficiently confident to recommend the debdiff attached into Hardy; It will not cause any breakages (soname/pkgname is changed properly by debian-multimedia) and my tests show that all but one package will transition with trivial rebuild
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138854 in mplayer "Merge x264 from debian-multimedia" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138854
<james_w> Kmos: yes, which of the three people commenting in that report would you like to answer?
<jdong> lol @ how awful the bugdescription can be when affecting multiple locations
<jdong> siretart: at any rate, I will pursue whatever is necessary to complete the transition once the new x264 is uploaded to Hardy.
<siretart> jdong: did you already upload to ~motumedia ppa?
<jdong> siretart: no, I have not, I've only locally tested with a hardy pbuilder. Would you like x264 and the dependent gpac merge in ~motumedia first?
<Amaranth> haha, wow
<Amaranth> I have no idea how to create a new branch in bzr
<james_w> Amaranth: 'bzr branch oldbranch newbranchname'
<jdong> bzr branch, physical directory copy, etc
<Amaranth> right but i'm working from a bound branch
<siretart> jdong: hm
<Amaranth> i need to commit my changes then push the whole thing to launchpad as a new branch
<Amaranth> if i just commit it'll push to the main branch
<jdong> siretart: both are low-impact and should be good to go directly into Hardy IMO
<james_w> Amaranth: bzr unbind; bzr commit; bzr push
<siretart> jdong: at this stage of development, I'd be inclined to just throw the new x264 at hardy
<jdong> siretart: agreed. Can you sponsor its dependent and linked gpac merge into Hardy too?
<siretart> jdong: not today, but I'll put it on my todo list for tomorrow
<jdong> okay, thank you :)
<Kmos> james_w: to explain him why it's more easy to package without debian dir inside the tarball.
<jdong> superm1: I see you've touched mplayer a lot; and that it's done in bzr; after siretart uploads x264 I'll need you to bump b-d ver on x264 for whenver the next upload will be :)
<jdong> kthxbye *vanishes*
<james_w> Kmos: sure, I can do that.
<siretart> jdong: but if you have some spare time, I'd still suggest to throw the sources at the PPAs
<Kmos> james_w: thanks
<superm1> sure jdong
<superm1> i'll subscribe to that x264 bug
<jdong> siretart: ok, I'll look at how uploading to PPA's work :D
<superm1> to watch when it happens
<siretart> jdong: you've prepared the sources anyway, and you can test your versioned build-deps that way
<jdong> superm1: thanks muchly
<siretart> jdong: oh, that's quite easy. you need to be in launchpad beta testers team, and adjust your .dput.cf
<jdong> ok, first is done, second is doing :)
 * Amaranth cries watching bzr push
<siretart> [ppa-motumedia]
<siretart> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<siretart> incoming = ~motumedia/ubuntu
<siretart> login = anonymous
<jdong> siretart: thanks :)
<Amaranth> i dunno if it's launchpad or bzr but i could write a new window manager before this finishes :P
<jdong> siretart: would you like me to mangle the versions ~ppa1?
<Amaranth> jdong: that's required :P
<siretart> yes, just append ~ppa1 to the version, that way we can iteratively update the package until prime time
<jdong> sounds good
<jdong> siretart: do I have to change the distro in the changelog entry?
<siretart> jdong: upload target must be 'hardy'
<jdong> alright
<zul> afternoon
<jdong> oops *headdesk* need to -sa for full source
<jdong> wow I'm a total klutz today
<jdong> siretart: unrelated/partially-related question, do you have any idea what we are going to do about libmp4v2?
<jdong> i.e. our version is over 2 years old, built from some snapshot of faad, and already posing an age problem with respect to packages like gtkpod-aac that's  only going to worsen with time
 * ajmitch carefully considers the MOTU applications on the MC list
 * ScottK ponders if he's going to regret a recent +1 on MOTU applications.
<ScottK> No pressure or anything...
<jdong> siretart: looks like libmp4v2's "supposed" to be built out of mpeg4ip (present in debian-multimedia, not in Ubuntu at all) rather than faad2... are you familiar with the packaging of libmp4v2 or is some here fluent? If not I guess I can give it the old upload to PPA then analyize reverse-dep chain...
<zul> its like living with houdini?
<jdong> err make faad2 *3* years old.
<jdong> but freshly synced
 * jdong finds who did it
<siretart> jdong: I have no idea, maybe slomo has?
<soothsayer> Does anyone know what Xshape for X11 is?
<jdong> yeah, I see slomo recently synced faad2
<jdong> Binary: faad, libfaad-dev, libfaad0, xmms-mp4, libfaad2-0
<jdong> WHOO! it no longer builds mpeg4v2!
<jdong> mp4v2*
<soothsayer> Ah, never mind found it
<jdong> siretart: since nothing builds libmp4v2 in Ubuntu anymore, do you think it'd be okay for me to start playing with importing mpeg4ip from debian-multimedia?
<jdong> i.e. into the motumedia PPA?
<jdong> meh looks like slomo probably got it handled considering he imported faad2 2 days ago. I'll poke him later about it
<crimsun> in clearing my Debian lists queue, this link[0] should be mandatory reading for NEW source packages
<crimsun> [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html
<ScottK> That's linked somewhere in our wiki (or was at some point).
<crimsun> I thought it was, but I don't have the URLs handy
<ScottK> With all the reorganization I don't know where to find anything anymore.
<apachelogger> siretart: please nuke http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ksquirrel-libs it got renamed to libksquirrel, thanks :)
<crimsun> ScottK: hmm.  I have an e-mail from norsetto RE: MOTU Precedures Change, and in it he flags https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-11-05/REVURequirements.  On that wiki page is a link to another recommended page.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi there, may I draw your attention to bug #132583?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132583 in openoffice.org "python-uno can't be imported" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132583
<Le-Chuck_ITA> it seems to have a one line fix
<jdong> python-uno | 1:2.3.0-1ubuntu5.1 | gutsy-proposed | amd64, i386, powerpc
<jdong> is that SRU not for the aformentioned bug?
<jdong> and -> #ubuntu-devel, python-uno is in main
<crimsun> no, it's not for that bug.
<crimsun> the -proposed is for bug 153132
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 153132 in openoffice.org "Openoffice splash screen includes Ubuntu logo" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153132
<jdong> oh
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I go to ubuntu-devel then, thank you
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-10
<catonano> Hello MOTUs
<catonano> I'd like to ask a question
<catonano> I have an Asus laptop
<catonano> I used remastersys to make a live cd out of my sustem
<catonano> system
<catonano> then, I went to a Dell Vostro 1700 laptop, with the cd
<catonano> it worked
<catonano> THEN I tried with a cd freshly downloaded from the ubuntu site
<catonano> it did NOT work
<catonano> Of course both the cds were Intrepid
<catonano> how is it possible ?
<catonano> I upgraded my system with update manager
<catonano> and it worked
<catonano> a cd from the site does not
<catonano> does this mean that
<Flannel> !enter | catonano
<ubottu> catonano: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<Flannel> catonano: Also, support is in #ubuntu
<catonano> Oh yeah, sorry
<catonano> Does this mean that a system produced by subsequent update AND a system freshly installed are NOT equal ?
<doggymenz> dude, i cant find Songbird or PlayOnLinux in the repository!
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: that's probably because it's not there.
<doggymenz> then put it there
<Hobbsee> catonano: well, probably not - you would have installed other packages
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: yes sir, anything else sir?
<ajmitch> doggymenz: we'll breathlessly await your contribution
<doggymenz> Hobbsee, no thats fine for now
<doggymenz> ajmitch, i cant make stuff happen
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: too bad.  Get to it, if you want it done.
<Hobbsee> i prefer ajmitch's response.
<doggymenz> :(
<doggymenz> if i want package stuff, do i must compile it from source, or i can download binaries, and package them?
<Hobbsee> catonano: they should have both worked.  How did it not work?
<catonano> Yes, I installed dother packages, indeed. But the failure was in starting X, which is NOT something I messed with - definitevly - it looked like a broken system; like an orrible bug was afflicting it
<ajmitch> doggymenz: source
<doggymenz> ok
<ajmitch> for songbird, the major holdups are trademark issues again, I believe
<doggymenz> oh
<doggymenz> well, firefox have trademark too!
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: and there are agreements on that, about how we can modify their software.
<catonano> I started with the fresh live cd and it did boot UNTIL it had to start gdm. There it stopped and remained with a black screen
<Hobbsee> catonano: strange.  Which video card?
<doggymenz> Hobbsee, why modify it?
<Hobbsee> POL has ubuntu packages, on it's download site, too.  No idea on how good they are.
<catonano> video card ? I don't remember now, I'm not on the Dell Vostro any more :-(
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: to make it fit in better with some of the gnome backends, perhaps?
<doggymenz> oh
<Hobbsee> catonano: ah, right.  probably not a binary one then.  Strange.
<doggymenz> well, i downloaded the binary from songbird website, and it fits perfectly for me
<catonano> Anyhow, I mean, if that happened is because The 2 cds were carring  different systems. But is that possible ? How ?
<catonano> Ok, sorry, i'm moving to #ubuntu ;-)
 * Hobbsee notes that playonlinux could well be violating the GPL, too.
<Hobbsee> oh, no, the source is under 'generic'
<doggymenz> playonlinux violate gpl?
<doggymenz> i cant make package, but if i could, it would be pointless, cuz i can just put stuff in ppa, not repo
<Hobbsee> it can get copied from a ppa.
 * Hobbsee notes this doesn't look quite as bad as ultramatix, but...
<doggymenz> if i upload a .deb to my .ppa, then its a binary, not source, so how can you know i didnt upload a virus?
<StevenK> You can't upload .deb's to PPAs
<Hobbsee> if you upload a .deb to your ppa, it won't accept it, because i'ts not a source.
<doggymenz> oh, what i upload to a ppa?
<Hobbsee> it'll throw you a rejected mail.
<Hobbsee> a.  source.
<doggymenz> oh, what file is a source?
<doggymenz> is it like .debs ?
<doggymenz> or .sdeb?
<doggymenz> or something, idk
<nellery> you should read the Launchpad documentation
<nellery> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<doggymenz> i noticed apt-get has a 'source' option to dl source, but is there no option to dl source, compile it, and install it?
 * Hobbsee notes that POL will never get into the repositories, in it's current status.
<doggymenz> !lipa
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lipa
<doggymenz> !lpia
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lpia
<doggymenz> what is LPIA? i saw it in FAQ
<doggymenz> why is POL not GPL? :(
 * Hobbsee notes that classifies as a support question, so should go to #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> and it is GPL - they *do* distribute a source - under 'generic' of all things.
<gouki> Does anyone know if gpgme was dropped in favor of gpgme11?
<nellery> lpia = louisiana private investigator association
<gouki> Never mind ... Found my answer.
<crimsun> gouki: according to rmadison, yes
<doggymenz> i dont understand playonlinux problem
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: "the code is crap"
<doggymenz> oh
<doggymenz> i thought it was ppopular
<wgrant> Like Automatix, yes.
<Hobbsee> well, it may be popular, and bonus points for the 'smile iwantseethesmile' apparently useless file...
<Hobbsee> shiny icons, though
<gouki> crimsun, thank you.
<wgrant> I like install.py:295-312
<ajmitch> wgrant: that does look quite good
<wgrant> Oh dear god.
<wgrant> Who cares about env variables?
<wgrant> menu.py:41
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yeah, that's what I started with, when reading it...
<wgrant> I think menu.py:41 wins.
<StevenK> Pastebin!
<Hobbsee> oh, shit!
<wgrant> playonlinux_env = os.popen("printf $PLAYONLINUX", "r").read() #Recuperer le repertoire de PlayOnLinux
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I know it's bad, but surely?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what's bad is that i just hit "run in terminal" rather than "open in text editor"
<ajmitch> oh dear
<wgrant> Hahah.
<Hobbsee> however, i think it's badly enough crafted that it would have just fallen over without actually starting
 * ajmitch disinfects Hobbsee's system
<StevenK> Oh, get stuffed. The author needs to learn how environment variables works.
<Hobbsee> oh good.  it didn't do anything, as i didn't specify the 8+ arguments it's required to run with
<StevenK> Haha
<wgrant> I like http://pastebin.ca/1249993
<gouki> Where can I see manual sections? RainCT told me games are 6, but that was about it.
<wgrant> Duplication and confusement.
<jmarsden> gouki: man man
<gouki> jmarsden, d'ohh! thank you.
 * Hobbsee has another piece of excellent code here, too!
<jmarsden> gouki: np
<Hobbsee> import lib.Variables as Variables
<Hobbsee> ...
<Hobbsee> class Variables:      #classe qui va contenir les diffÃ©rentes variables (pas de variables globales)
<StevenK> Haha
<ajmitch> interesting
<StevenK> wgrant: O.o
<Hobbsee> There are 3 lines of code between those two lines.
<lifeless> lease
 * ajmitch will need to make notes of what to do in future python projects
<lifeless> I'm blind now. stop stop stop
<lifeless> or better yet, for python support -> #python :>
<StevenK> Haha
<Hobbsee> also, said Variables class deals with the arguments given with the program.
<StevenK> lifeless: That's mean :-P
<wgrant> class Variables has no real members or methods, but it does have a nice argv parser in its body, which populates it.
<Hobbsee> which also includes mroe references to environment variables
 * StevenK sobs
<wgrant> ... via popen.
<StevenK> Because os.env is for chumps
<wgrant> Guys, we've got to get this into the archive *now*.
<wgrant> Backport to all releases!
 * ajmitch uploads
<wgrant> Wake the archive admins!
<jdong> ack you guys should stop sarcastically pinging me :P
 * StevenK hides
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<ajmitch> wgrant: I think we should just copy the binary package they've provided into the archive
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you forgot "install by default"
<wgrant> ajmitch: Does it have stuff in it that proves it was constructed manually, like Automatix's?
<Hobbsee> !
<Hobbsee> it's not just this one file, either!
<StevenK> What did Automatix's .deb have in it?
<wgrant> StevenK: I don't remember, but the one I looked at was clearly manually constructed with ar.
<ajmitch> wgrant: well, it has a debhelper postinst/rm, but it also has a rather non-standard changelog
<wgrant> Or maybe it was Ultamatix...
<Hobbsee> where the postrm is rm -rf /?
<jdong> Hobbsee: clearly the system is useless once the tool is removed.
<lifeless> wgrant: it doesn't help that the debian docs start out with 'a deb is an ar archive' somewhere
<wgrant> Essential: yes
<wgrant> lifeless: So they do.
<lifeless> developers can get the wrong idea:P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: postrm is just the update-menus stuff
<StevenK> ajmitch: Disappointing
<gouki> Is there a GPG keyring for Ubuntu Members? I mean all keys grouped? I believe I saw this for Debian, but can't recall.
<ajmitch> StevenK: it only has a .desktop file
<Hobbsee> gouki: there probably is on LP somewhere.
<wgrant> Hobbsee, gouki: There isn't.
<jdong> wgrant: pfft never say never. This sounds like a job for popen('wget | awk | sed|  grep| ....')...!
<gouki> wgrant, ok.
 * StevenK kills jdong 
<wgrant> Out of the 5 files I've looked at, three of them import lib.Variables as Variables only to redefine it as that same dodgy class.
<StevenK> Haha
<Hobbsee> right.  so that's clearly why those two aren't in the archives.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Python with tabs.
<wgrant> Ew.
<wgrant> Ew.
<wgrant> Ew.
<StevenK> wgrant?
<Hobbsee> i think mjg59 should do a full synopsis of the fail in that program, and post it to planet :P
<StevenK> What a brilliant idea
<wgrant> StevenK: You don't dislike Python indented with tabs?
<StevenK> wgrant: I'm not fond of it, but I can deal
<StevenK> And I'll only use it if the script is a write-once throw-away thing
<wgrant> Erm.
<wgrant> I don't like the look of this.
<wgrant> It looks like some kind of home-grown IPC.
 * Hobbsee purges that hellish looking thing from her system
<StevenK> Does it use os.popen?
<wgrant> No, it defines a function called SendBash which writes the given string to a file, followed by 'MsgOut'
<wgrant> I daren't trace what else uses that file.
<ajmitch> how creative
<StevenK> Hmmm
<ajmitch> so, is there anything that'd keep it out of the archive? :)
<DBO> is there a potential timeframe for mono 2.0 making it into jaunty?
<lifeless> why are you wasting your time ? clearly that code is insane
<jdong> lifeless: oh clearly you haven't dealt with the crack-community backlash when you don't thoroughly dissect these things to death
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: i think you'll need to provide lots of beer now.
<ScottK> Well PEP-8 prefers spaces but (IIRC) says don't bother converting tabs to spaces if the entire file is tabbed.
<Hobbsee> doggymenz: so people can avoid the abomination of that codebase.
<ScottK> So I don't think tabs in Python is a complete abomination.
 * DBO waves at Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> heya DBO
<DBO> Hobbsee, you have any idea who is in charge of mono packaging for ubuntu?
<ajmitch> directhex has been doing most of that lately with the debian mono team
<Hobbsee> DBO: directhex
<jdong> oh yeah. acpitool -B doesn't work on this proprietary Mach-like OS.
<Hobbsee> DBO: i think it's planned, but don't know any more specific
<DBO> one more question then
<ajmitch> it'll cost you
<DBO> My employer (and thus me) is in desparate need of a distro with mono 2.0.  I am trying to keep us firmly in Ubuntu land largely because I like debian distros.  I can't seem to find out if paid support through canonical would entitle us to something like decent mono packages
<DBO> ajmitch, no worries, I am prepared to pay if the result is good =)
<wgrant> I think we're planning to grab things from experimental soon.
<ajmitch> what is different between what's in intrepid & 2.0?
<DBO> ajmitch, lots of tiny things we use in the windows forms area
<ScottK> DBO: If you want specific packages prepared you'd have to pay for that.  The Canonical support contracts are for support of the distro as released (As I understand it).
<DBO> and a lot of work on ASP
<ajmitch> for canonical support questions, you'd really need to talk to canonical
<DBO> ScottK, thats kind of what I had been gathering but I was having trouble finding a direct affirmative one way or the other so I figured I could just ask you guys
<ScottK> DBO: My advice would do to hire someone who knows mono packaging as a consultant to make the package updates for you.
<ScottK> I don't think anyone on this channel is likely to be able to give you an authoritative answer.
<DBO> ScottK, while I can get support, I work for a university... so things like hiring additional *people* are a lot more complicated =P
<ScottK> Sure.  Write a 'support mono' contract.
<DBO> haha
 * ScottK didn't actually mean hire as an employee, but contract someone to provide.
<DBO> ah
<ajmitch> though you'd probably end up doing it in-house anyway
<DBO> pretty much
 * ScottK knows about zip about mono packaging so is not trolling for business.
<Hobbsee> DBO: ask mneptok
<DBO> I was mostly just curious because we are going to be buying a support contract from someone
<Hobbsee> (about canonical support and such)
 * NCommander lives
<ajmitch> NCommander: we can remedy that
<DBO> Hobbsee, thanks, I will hunt him down... though the last time I talked to him it was at a Carls Jr. and the man clearly suffered from dementia =O
<wgrant> ajmitch: Fetch the comfy POL!
<ajmitch> mneptok? never!
 * NCommander dies
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> mneptok is as sane as Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> NCommander: you missed out on enjoying the code above...
 * jmarsden resurrects NCommander so he can enjoy all that wonderful Python code :-)
<NCommander> I've seen dak's internals
<wgrant> This is worse than dak.
<NCommander> bad python code does not scare me
<jdong> NCommander: I should get you some of this stuff I've seen from an intro to python class :)
<wgrant> NCommander: Does dak boycott os.environ?
<NCommander> probably
<jdong> most interesting is when you plot student submission # of lines - reference implementation # of lines
<wgrant> jdong: My uni now does Python as a first language.
<jdong> once that delta was up in the 400's
<wgrant> jdong: There are some absolute horrors.
<jdong> the solution was quite shocking
<wgrant> Hah.
<lifeless> wgrant: so we blame them for the code reviewed above?
<ScottK> Back when I was at University and Pascal was all the rage I had a job for one semester grading Intro to Pascal projects.
<wgrant> lifeless: Yes!
<ScottK> It was fun in a mean kind of way.
<jdong> wgrant: ah, here at MIT they're switching to Python as the primary language too
<ajmitch> lifeless: don't worry, otago uni has switched as well
<ScottK> We had a list of what we could mark off for.
<ScottK> Sometimes I managed to give negative grades.
<doggymenz> i thought all university used java
<wgrant> ScottK: Hahah.
<lifeless> ajmitch: to snake?
<doggymenz> what is best language? C, Java, C#, Python, Ruby?
<wgrant> doggymenz: Unimelb has been C for a couple of decades, with Java for OO.
<wgrant> Python!
<lifeless> doggymenz: depends on what you are doing
<ajmitch> lifeless: I've heard that python has replaced java for at least the first year
<jdong> doggymenz: gonna be hard to get any agreement on that :)
<doggymenz> hehe
<jdong> it's like asking for the best OS, shell, editor, etc :)
<doggymenz> i think python is a bit tricky
<wgrant> doggymenz: Visual Basic.
<lifeless> ajmitch: when I was there it was pascal first year cs; ada and others second year
<wgrant> Ada... really?
<lifeless> doggymenz: no really, it *depends* on what you are doing
<doggymenz> wgrant, yeah, i actually like VB, i can do stuff in VB in minutes, that takes weeks in C
<DBO> my uni starts with C# and then has all following classes done in C.  Which means every single simple program has horrible memory leaks since nobody taught them about free ()
<wgrant> C and VB are not comparable. At all.
<doggymenz> oh
<lifeless> wgrant: sure they are. Like a watch engraver and a landscape developer
<doggymenz> C# looks pretty cool, but im afraid of it, cuz its Microsoft
<ScottK> My favorite Java versus Python comment was my wife's.  She took a class that used Java first.  Then on that used Python.  On her first Python project she was having trouble figuring out how to do all the stuff she "knew" she had to do.
<ScottK> It turned out she wasn't missing anything.  Python was just so much simpler to get started with.
<wgrant> Heh.
<doggymenz> ScottK, you saying that Python is easier than Java?
<doggymenz> oh, okie
<doggymenz> cool
<wgrant> Undoubtedly.
<doggymenz> i like simple
<ScottK> That was her experience.  I've never done Java.
<doggymenz> oh
<ScottK> I'd believe wgrant though.
<wgrant> Java is C# done wrong.
<doggymenz> but if i want to make a photoshop killer, then Python is bad idea?
<doggymenz> C# is Java done right?
<ScottK> Well one nice thing about Python is you can work in Python and then after you have a working system, convert performance sensitive areas to C.
<ScottK> It's designed for that, so there's no need to do premature opitimization.
<wgrant> ScottK: It's particularly nice with things like Cython and Pyrex.
<lifeless> well
<lifeless>  -> #languagewars perhaps
<iulian> G'morning.
<ScottK> StevenK: If you have a moment, I'd appreciate it if you would accept the kdenetwork package that just hit intrepid-backports.
 * ScottK wonders off to collapse for 4 1/2 hours until he has to be getting children off to school.
<effie_jayx> is there a way to use a much recent version of lintian in ubuntu?
<dmoerner> effie_jayx, 2.0.0 is in hardy-backports, intrepid-backports, and jaunty
<jdong> effie_jayx: the backports repository {has, will soon have} 2.0
<effie_jayx> ok
<dmoerner> rmadison reveals that in fact, has
<effie_jayx> I will enable the backports for intrepid then
<\sh> moins
<iulian> wgrant: Hey, can I steal the roundup merge from you?
<wgrant> iulian: Go ahead.
<iulian> Thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Hey dholbach!
<dholbach> hi iulian
<effie_jayx> good morning all
<cody-somerville> dholbach, re: dput, I e-mailed the Debian maintainer.
<dholbach> cody-somerville: it'd be nice if you'd file a debian bug and we could link it to the ubuntu bug
<cody-somerville> dholbach, sure.
<dholbach> ROCK
<cody-somerville> I think thats the first time I've ever reported a bug in debian
<NCommander> O___O;
<NCommander> uh ...
<NCommander> cody-somerville, well, better late than never ;-)
 * StevenK looks up his first bug
<StevenK> 25 July 2001, #106519
 * NCommander won't be able to find his first bug
<NCommander> on Debian
<StevenK> Why not?
<NCommander> I don't remember the email I used in '01
<StevenK> Heh, that'd do it
<NCommander> Meh, sparc is still a builder down
<NCommander> who's archive day is it?
<jmarsden> Are PPAs accepting jaunty builds yet?
<NCommander> Uhh
<NCommander> nope
<RAOF> Looks like it's time to do that Miro SRU :(
<RAOF> Turns out miro.desktop migrated from miro-data to the main miro package from Hardy to Intrepid, so that's breaking upgrades.  Which, apparently, nobody checked during the actual development cycle.
<StevenK> Woot
<RAOF> Indeed.
<NCommander> RAOF, bleck
<NCommander> RAOF, so what's the fix, move desktop back to miro from miro-data?
<StevenK> NCommander: slangasek is Monday
 * NCommander nods
<StevenK> NCommander: But archive admins can't fix sejong
<NCommander> sejong?
<RAOF> NCommander: Nah, throw a versioned Conflicts at it; miro.desktop is in the main package in Debian, and it makes as much sense to have it there as in -data.
<wgrant> It probably needs a sysad/DC engineer + a buildd admin.
<RAOF> While I'm at it I'll push the "unbreak youtube" fix in there too.
<NCommander> StevenK, actually, I was just wondering on how long I had to wait on the debhelper backport to go through so I could run the rest of the queue
<\sh> RAOF: unbreak youtube? ,-)
<RAOF> \sh: Unbreak the youtube integration, at least :P
<\sh> RAOF: hmm...youtube integration is a must ,-)
 * \sh wants youtube integration in evolution 
<wgrant> \sh: .. why?
<\sh> wgrant: so I can watch videos inside evolution while deleting spam :)
<wgrant> Hah.
<StevenK> Oh, excellent.
<StevenK> Then spam can rickroll you.
<wgrant> StevenK: Precisely my fear.
<StevenK> wgrant: *5*
<wgrant> Hm?
<StevenK> *5* == High five
<\sh> or depeding on the content of the spam, the youtube integration tries to find videos tagged with words of the spam...
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> \sh: That could be more than mildly unpleasant!
<\sh> wgrant: well...it would find always blue videos with viagra tag..yeah...stupid idea
<laga> there are v14gra tags?
<\sh> laga: looks like
 * StevenK notes the Exp button on his calculator doesn't do what he thought
<cody-somerville> Am I suppose to get an e-mail back after I submit a bug report to debian?
<wgrant> StevenK: What did you expect?
<StevenK> wgrant: I'm working from a solution that gives 4exp(-11.75) = 3.1 * 10^-5
<StevenK> wgrant: Being noobish, and putting 4exp(-11.75) into my calculator gives -47
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Yes
<NCommander> cody-somerville, it usually takes a few minutes
<cody-somerville> Its been 38 minutes :P
<cody-somerville> This is what I sent: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/69917/
<NCommander> you did send the bug to submit@bugs.debian.org, right?
<cody-somerville> NCommander, does the pastebin say otherwise?
<StevenK> Perhaps the Subject line in the body confused it
 * cody-somerville tries again.
 * NCommander usually just uses reportbug :-/
<slytherin> any archive admins around for a manual sync?
<geser> good morning *
<cody-somerville> I used that to generate it
<slytherin> geser: good morning. :-)
<NCommander> morning geser
<slytherin> geser: in case you didn't check already, I files sync request for freeguide.
<effie_jayx> how can I test a watchfile
<effie_jayx> ?
<wgrant> effie_jayx: Tried 'uscan --verbose'?
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> --report, actually.
<wgrant> Haven't used it manually in a while.
<effie_jayx> wgrant, should I try that with the .dsc file or the .deb
<wgrant> effie_jayx: Inside the extracted source package.
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> wgrant,  worked thanks
<effie_jayx> however, the numbering of the sourcefiles is wrong
<effie_jayx> http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/kipina/
<effie_jayx> uscan tells me  kipina-0.03.tar.gz is newer than kipina-0.2.2.tar.gz, and that is not so... kipina-0.03.tar.gz should be  kipina-0.0.3.tar.gz
<effie_jayx> anyhow ... watchfile is working, I shall report upstream...
<emgent> good morning
<slytherin> effie_jayx: what is expression in watch file?
<effie_jayx>  http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/kipina/kipina-([^-]*)\.tar.gz
<effie_jayx> slytherin,  I think it is the filename not having the . and uname makes sense  03 = 3 therefore... 0.03 = 0.3
<effie_jayx> and therefore is newer than 0.2.2
<effie_jayx> the filename should be 0.0.3
<slytherin> effie_jayx: I don't know why uscan would make that conversion.
<cody-somerville> dholbach, Okay. Linked the bug.
<huats> good morning
<cody-somerville> dholbach, Okay, attached debdiff to debian bug
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: oh, why are you attached to the dput merge, btw?
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, what do you mean?
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i saw your name on it on dad.
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, because I merged it (and made several feature and bug enhancements) and am waiting for sponsorship
<cody-somerville> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/dput/+bug/295613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295613 in dput "Merge dput 0.9.2.35 from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: oh, did you?  Right.
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, yup. I added sftp transport support and host arguments.
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: i thought you might have at least poked me about it.  I hadn't realised all main merges were explicitly up for grabs as well.
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: send it to debian please.
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, I did.
<Hobbsee> did they put it into bzr?
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, I haven't heard from the maintainer yet.
 * StevenK wonders if he still has any code in dput
<Hobbsee> sorry, svn.
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, the merge was extraordinarily simple (it wasn't actually worth merging but I figured I'd keep the delta low) otherwise I would have poked you.
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: the debian guys are quite happy to put stuff in SVN, and sync as much as possible.  This is what I learned when I last modified it, and didn't send my changes, and this is exactly the sort of reason why it's recommended to check with the previous uploader - not because you aren't sure you got it right
<cody-somerville> Hobbsee, And I'm certainly hoping they'll take these changes as well :)
<Hobbsee> cody-somerville: they likely will - they're usually pretty quick too.
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Did the bug report actually show up?
<cody-somerville> StevenK, aye
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Just took a while?
<cody-somerville> StevenK, gmail is slow
<cody-somerville> StevenK, I actually duplicated the bug. How can I fix that?
<StevenK> merge them
<StevenK> cody-somerville: bts merge <x> <y>
<cody-somerville> StevenK, do I e-mail that to the first bug?
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Right, do this:
<StevenK> cody-somerville: To: control@bugs.debian.org
<StevenK> Subject: Whatever
<StevenK> Body:
<StevenK> merge <x> <y>
<StevenK> kthxbye
<cody-somerville> guh
<StevenK> Hm?
 * slytherin is thrilled with prospect of LG3D entering into Debian/Ubuntu
<handschuh> Hi. I need a folder to be 777 but lintian prints a waring if this folder in included in the package.
<wgrant> You don't need a folder to be 777.
<handschuh> otherwise I would have to create empty files in this folder with 777
<handschuh> Or 666 is also sufficient but this causes a lintian waring, too
<StevenK> 666 on a directory is pointless
<StevenK> You need execute to chdir() into it
<handschuh> where?
<handschuh> a - ok, so 777 is needed ?!
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% mkdir testdir
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% chmod a-x testdir
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% cd testdir
<StevenK> cd: permission denied: testdir
<StevenK> handschuh: ^
<handschuh> so how do I add a system wide writable directory to a package without getting a warinig vom lintian?
<StevenK> You don't
<StevenK> It's a bad idea
<wgrant> That's what I would have thought.
<handschuh> I have data that changes frequently and should be changed by any user
<StevenK> Then why is a package creating the directory?
<handschuh> because I don't know where to create else
<handschuh> creating it through the program wont work
<handschuh> any ideas?
<handschuh> well ... is there a gnome/kde independent gksu ?
<handschuh> ok I let a script determain which desktop is installed
<effie_jayx> if a package does not have a patch system defined and the package uses debhelper as structure, what patch system should I use?
<slytherin> effie_jayx: any patch system you see fit. debhelper does not have any patch system like cdbs.
<effie_jayx> slytherin,  so I could use simple-patchsys I guess...
<slytherin> effie_jayx: that is if you are using cdbs
<effie_jayx> ok, that's what I wanted to know. I am going quilt then
<slytherin> effie_jayx: how bug is the patch?
<effie_jayx> big?
<slytherin> yes, bug
<slytherin> big
<ogra> heh
<effie_jayx> there are 5 or 6 changes in several files, so I guess I need a patch for each
<effie_jayx> slytherin,  does that make sense?
<Laney> Group changes for the same issue into the same patch
<slytherin> ï»¿ï»¿effie_jayx: if the package comes from Debian then it is usually advised not to introduce a patch system. Apart from that you don't need patch for each file.
<slytherin> all teh changes should go into same patch
<effie_jayx> slytherin,  ok, so I guess all changes I am making must be made in debian then
<effie_jayx> I fixed a bug but I was suggested to use a patch insted of a fix that is intrusive in upstreams code
<effie_jayx> but the package is not in debian
<effie_jayx> it is an upgrade I did
<slytherin> effie_jayx: Then you are free to make your decision
<geser> effie_jayx: which package is it?
<slytherin> effie_jayx: When I say package not in Debian, I mean "no version of package is in Debian"
<effie_jayx> slytherin,  I see
<effie_jayx> geser, kipina
<slytherin> effie_jayx: It's like this, you never know what patch system the Debian maintainer would like to use. So it is better to not introduce your own patch system.
<geser> kipina is in Debian, but an older version
<geser> and is it orphaned
<effie_jayx> in the mean time. if I want to fix something, I do it directly to the source code then... the package is orphan in debian and there is very little upstream activity
<bmm> Do I need a dch -i instead of a dch -e when I want to put a new revision on REVU? (or maybe an ubuntu1 to ubuntu2?)
<slytherin> bmm: No. Don't change version when re-uploading to revu. Just use 'dput -f file.changes'
<bmm> slytherin: ok, then I'm just being impatient ;) Thanks!
<effie_jayx> slytherin, so, I should make the change that fixes the bug only and let the overall package work be done by the debian maintainer?
<geser> effie_jayx: on principle yes, but there is currently no DM for kipina
<effie_jayx> geser,  that is exactly my question
<geser> effie_jayx: as you seem to be interested in kipina, have you thought about adopting the Debian package?
<effie_jayx> geser,  I have, but I am uneasy abut the nm process and so on..
<geser> you don't need to be a DD to maintain a package in Debian, they have also sponsoring for this
<effie_jayx> ahh ok
<effie_jayx> I might try that then
<effie_jayx> I will go ahead and fix the bug in ubuntu
<bmm> Can build-depends contain virtual packages? (libexpat-dev instead of libexpat1-dev ?)
<Hobbsee> bmm: "virtual" packages?
<Hobbsee> !info libexpat-dev
<ubottu> Package libexpat-dev does not exist in intrepid
<bmm> Hobbsee: libexpat-dev is provided by libexpat1-dev but not really a package.
<Hobbsee> oh, i see.
<Hobbsee> usually, no - because multiple things can provide it, iirc, and it won't know which one to pick
<broonie> You can do real | virtual, though.
<Hobbsee> that's true
<bmm> Ah, that sound spiffy :) I'll do that
<StevenK> No, because what it may pick is non-deterministic
<bmm> Oh well, libexpat1-dev it then shall be
<quadrispro> hi, can someone check this? bug 261145
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261145 in afbackup "Please sync afbackup 3.5.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261145
<porthose> good mourning
<bmm> I get the feeling that either my uploads are going wrong, or I need to up the package version or REVU to actually see my upload. I'm currently at -0ubuntu1 should I make that -0ubuntu2 for a new revision? (currently I'm using the old version number and dput -f revu metalink_0.3.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes)
<ScottK> bmm: You don't need to change the revision, so whatever your problem is, that's not it.
<bmm> ScottK: hmm... then I'm a bit stupified at the moment... Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong then? I did a debuild -S -sd for this but tried a debuild -S -sa earlier and that didn't work either... any thoughts on any of this??
<bmm> Ooh.. wait.. just got a mail about the new upload :D
 * ScottK waits.
<bmm> ScottK: thanks, it came through :D
 * bmm is not sure what is going on, but still enjoying the experience
<RainCT> bmm: new uploads should appear every 3 minutes (but may take a bit more if there is lots of stuff to be processed)
<bmm> RainCT: ah, that's good to know. Why the upload from this morning failed is still a mystery to me, but it is working now :)
<RainCT> bmm: there's a metalink upload which was rejected
<RainCT> uhm.. and the .diff.gz for it seems to be missing
<bmm> RainCT: ah, that explains it. Where can you see that?
<RainCT> bmm: ssh'ing into the machine where REVU is hosted ;P
<bmm> RainCT: hehe... I'll leave that to somebody who knows something more about that. How the .diff.gz went missing... can't explain it. But whoever it was, it was probably me :P
<RainCT> bmm: (only REVU admins can check do this. there's a list of all on the wiki and if you've a problem you can ping any of us)
<bmm> RainCT: thanks!
<bmm> I have to go, but with the upload succeeded you can all count on me coming back for comments another day ;) Cya all!
<joaopinto> RainCT, arent't failed uploads messages sent to uploaders ?
<RainCT> joaopinto: not yes, but it's planned for "some day" :P
<RainCT> joaopinto: and your request (about having a "Your uploads" section in index.py) is planned for "the near future" ;)
<joaopinto> well, if the plan is to use import from ppa, it will not be needed on the future :)
<RainCT> joaopinto: direct uploads will remain as an option (at least for some people)
<joaopinto> what's the benefit of keeping them ?
<slytherin> RainCT: Are you already working on tagging system for revu?
<RainCT> joaopinto: that you don't have to upload to PPA :P (and that the code for it is already there anyway)
<RainCT> slytherin: not yet
<joaopinto> RainCT, that's is more code that you need to maintain :P
<slytherin> RainCT: Ok. But I am looking forward to it. :-)
<RainCT> joaopinto: not much, really. like 90% of the code is shared with the PPA importer
<NCommander> RainCT, what are you doing to my PPA code now?!
<RainCT> NCommander: nothing
<RainCT> NCommander: btw, will you look up the code to check if the package has build correctly?
<NCommander> I don't have it
<RainCT> NCommander: OK. Do you remember how you did it?
<NCommander> The code worked by checking the Packages file for the files listed in the Binary section of the Sources
<RainCT> NCommander: ah, that's listed in the Packages file? it should be fairly trivial to implement then
<NCommander> It was like ten lines of code
<NCommander> Second note RainCT, your sources for APT should actually at least alias to jaunty :-P
<RainCT> NCommander: Yep, I've to change the distribution name in the config file
<RainCT> actually, it's done now
<NCommander> RainCT, what is?
<RainCT> NCommander: source repo for jaunty
<RainCT> gonna go, cya
<NCommander> Cya RainCT
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ara_> hello people!
<ara_>  I remember you that today is an Ubuntu Testing Day!
<ara_>  details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/20081110
<mok0> Fast in, fast out. Just like that
<ScottK> mok0: Is that a comment about kssh?
<ScottK> Sorry, but it didn't work anymore.
<mok0> ScottK: heh, no, about ara_'s transient passage through the channel
<ScottK> OK.
<mok0> ScottK: kssh should go away now that we have kde4.1
<ScottK> mok0: It's gone.  Removed from Jaunty today.
<mok0> ScottK: ... and it seems not to be maintainer
<mok0> ScottK: good
<ScottK> Yep.
<mok0> ScottK: It was my first package, though, so it's kinda sentimental :-)
<ScottK> You should come help us make KDE 4.2 even better for Jaunty ...
<mok0> ScottK: How can I help?
<ScottK> mok0: I remember.  That's why I've been looking for you to mention it.
<ScottK> mok0: Join #kubuntu-devel and we can discuss.
<mok0> ScottK: ok
<iulian> mok0: Thanks for uploading gkrellm.
<mok0> iulian: you're welcome
<mok0> iulian: I will look at some of the other items in the list also
<iulian> Awesome.
<mok0> iulian: You've been a busy little bee :-)
<iulian> Heh
<x1250> hey guys, I'm trying to compile latest inkscape svn, but I'm getting this error:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/70051/     || In intrepid I had no problems, and this happens since I upgraded to jaunty. Any fix for this?
<zul> yes dont run jaunty
<sebner> and don't use svn stuff
<x1250> maybe next time :P
<geser> zul: Hi, have you had time to look at the debdiff on bug 286450?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286450 in xen-3.3 "libxen3 and libxen3-dev have bogus Replaces: versions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286450
<geser> zul: and can xen-3.1 be removed from the archive (current seems to be xen-3.3) or is it still used for something?
<zul> geser: not yet, i just got free from a bunch of time but I will look at it this afternoon
<geser> zul: no problem (note: that debdiff is still for intrepid, I didn't update it yet for jaunty)
<zul> geser: ill do that myself
<zul> and yes xen-3.1 can be removed
<RainCT> re
<iulian> 'ey RainCT
<mneptok> DBO: Canonical supports only packages that are included in the distro, and only packages in Main
<DBO> mneptok, aw shame shame for us
<DBO> im on the clock rolling updated mono packages right now
<DBO> 100 thinkpads + 200 workstations... god I pray I dont screw this up =P
<eMerzh> Hi all, if someone could review SQLiteman, my just corrected package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) previously reviewed by RainCT, I'll be very happy :D
<ddfire> hi
<ddfire>  i need help making a deb package
<ddfire> or backporting asterisk 1.4.21 from 8.10 to 8.04
<ddfire> anyone have an idea?
<ddfire> a pdf?
<ddfire>  a clue?
<jmarsden> ddfire: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<ddfire> jmarsden: THANKS
<ScottK> !backports | ddfire
<ubottu> ddfire: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ScottK> ^^ Also has relevant information.
<geser> does somebody else have a problem connecting to bugs.debian.org?
<ddfire>  !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<ddfire> i read the backport policy
<ddfire> but i think is to much work backport it
<ScottK> There's some information in there about how to also.
<ddfire> ScottK:  probabli i am wornk
<ddfire> i will ask for a backport
<ddfire> thanks all
<jmarsden> geser: bugs.debian.org seems to be down? It does not respond to ping either.
<iulian> geser: Yes
<iulian> I mean, I do.
<ScottK> iulian: You do reach it or you do have trouble?
<iulian> The latter.
<iulian> I've been trying to take a peek on a bug but I can't.
<ddfire> hi again
<ddfire> the multipackage section is useless maybe have other link?
<RainCT> REVU wiki pages are currently at /MOTU/Packages/REVU/. Does anyone mind if I move them to /MOTU/REVU/, to have shorter URLs (considerig that /MOTU/Packages is deprecated anyway)? Or perhaps even to /REVU/?
<gouki> RainCT / crimsun - Is it 'ok' to s/jaunty/intrepid in the changelog in order for the PPA to build the package? Since the next REVU day is in 4 days, I don't think PPA will support Jaunty by then.
<`Chris> Hello, I've sent a mail to the mentor mailing list a few days ago - Do you guys know what I can do to increase the chances of finding a prospective mentor? :)
<gouki> `Chris, you can talk with huats once he is online.
<`Chris> gouki: Oh ok then thanks
<gouki> He takes care of finding mentors for people interested in the mentor program.
<`Chris> Oh I guess he must be busy then
<gouki> Besides that, you can also read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring - But you probably did that already.
<`Chris> Yeah several times :)
<gouki> Heheh. Not really ... The team is small: https://edge.launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
<`Chris> Just 3 proper mentors? :-o
<gouki> No, three assigned.
<gouki> Maybe people don't ask for mentors that much.
<`Chris> Or they've gone inactive :(
<gouki> Apparently you can mail them directly asking if its possible to have a mentor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Junior_Contributor
<ScottK> gouki: I think Jaunty PPA got turned on today.
<`Chris> My launchpad already has Jaunty
<gouki> ScottK, ohh, great then. Thank you for getting back to me.
<`Chris> But not Intrepid
<ScottK> gouki: You can always ask questions here.  We are all potentially your mentor in some specifics.
<`Chris> Also gouki I've mailed a few days ago, I just like things to happen fast
<gouki> ScottK, yes, indeed. Most of the help is coming from this channel (it's true what they say about you guys/gals :P). Since my mentor is having a busy week :)
 * RainCT wants a mentor on how to mentor *g*
<quadrispro> RainCT, hi! it should be ready -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, are you busy?
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, not that many
<quadrispro> DktrKranz, bug 296471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296471 in v-sim "Please sync v-sim 3.4.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296471
<alefteris_> hi all! can I ask newbee packaging questions here or there is a seperate channel for that?
<geser> here
<alefteris_> I'm looking at pbuilder options to use with create (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto) can't find out what --variant does on the man page. also do i need to spesify my cpu arch/distribution/other-mirror or it picks up the defaults?
<alefteris_> i meant picks up my current system settings
<geser> for --variant see the manpage of debootstrap
<geser> for cpu it uses your default arch
<alefteris_> thank you geser :)
<geser> it's a long time for me since I created my pbuilder so I don't know the defaults for the others
<bmm> Anybody willing to comment on my latest REVU upload is hereby invited: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink
<porthose> bmm: try uploading again there is no .orig.tar.gz showing
<bmm> porthose: Ah, sorry, thought I had to do a debuild -S -sd for the second upload... confused by PPA I guess. I'll do a new upload. Thanks!
<sebner> RainCT: is dget from Revu already working?
<ScottK> sebner: One could always dget from REVU.
<sebner> ScottK: ah. ok thx
<ScottK> LP is the only service I know of 'unique' enough for it to be a problem.
<RainCT> sebner: you can dget from anywhere as long as there is a .dsc and the matching .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz are in the same directory
<RainCT> (and theres dgetlp in ubuntu-dev-tools, btw)
<sebner> RainCT: so what was this feature you are implementing for Revu? ^^
<ScottK> Only needed for PPA now.
<ScottK> Regular package URLs are working for dget these days.
<sebner> kk
<RainCT> sebner: apt-get'able source repositories
<sebner> RainCT: \o/
<sebner> ScottK: I got a challange, already seen it?
 * ScottK checks mail
<RainCT> sebner:   echo "deb-src http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/archive/ jaunty revu" | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
 * sebner hugs RainCT =)
<ScottK> sebner: I don't see any mail.
 * RainCT neither
 * RainCT hugs sebner back, btw
<sebner> ScottK: I suppose apachelogger is not subscribed to the ML, He sent it to me but CC'ed the MC
<ScottK> Ah.  Likely.
 * ScottK recalls apachelogger getting a challenge on his core-dev application.
<sebner> ScottK: you are the dark shadow, why do you think did I get one from him ;)
<ScottK> sebner: [17:07] <sebner> ScottK: I suppose apachelogger is not subscribed to the ML, He sent it to me but CC'ed the MC <-- You told me.
<sebner> ScottK: language skills ... I mean why does he want me to do this challange, same reason why you prepared a challange for him ;)
<ScottK> OH.
<ScottK> Actually it wasn't me.  It was sispoty, IIRC.
<sebner> ah k
<sebner> sry then
<ScottK> It's meant to resolve uncertainty.
 * ScottK ponders a "Must fix and RC bug in Debian" requirment for MOTU applicants.
<sebner> ScottK: I support that, after I became one :P
 * sebner hopes that everybody got that joke
<DktrKranz> sebner, want a RC bug to solve? Go and fix nut ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: BAH :P
<nxvl> you can fix evolution too
<nxvl> :D
<DktrKranz> he blocks collectd merge, and arnaud is a cool guy ;)
<DktrKranz> s/he/it/
<ScottK> nxvl: The best way to fix Evolution is install Kmail.
<nxvl> ScottK: i don't really like Kstuff
<nxvl> :D
 * sebner is for TB
<sebner> nxvl: shouldn't you still hide from me? :P
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you try KDE4?  It's very different.
<nxvl> ScottK: yep, still don't like it
<nxvl> ScottK: i still notice the desktop, which isn't something i want to notice
<ScottK> K
<nxvl> that's why KDE users are so fans of KDE and Gnome users just don't care
 * sebner ^5 nxvl for that 
<sebner> and now go and hide again :P
<nxvl> right! i almost forgot
 * nxvl hides
<sebner> heh
<NCommander> My only grip with KDE4 is its SLOW without hardware acceleration
<DktrKranz> nxvl, the real desktop (Tm) is when you press CTRL+ALT+F1
<NCommander> Vista ran faster until I finally figured out how to cox the 2-D accelerator to work
<RainCT> DktrKranz: +1
<nxvl> DktrKranz: yup
<nxvl> DktrKranz: that's why terminator is the perfect desktop :D
 * sebner hides from the emacs OS folks xD
<sebner> *emacsOS
<quadrispr0> hi RainCT
<RainCT> quadrispr0: hi
<quadrispr0> RainCT, i've uploaded new version of installation-report-generator to REVU
<DktrKranz> nxvl, I think "Canonical Desktop Experience" members have been hired to reach one goal: remove GNOME and KDE, leaving Ubuntu users with console-based only programs and a d*mn fast O.S.
<quadrispr0> did you check it?
<RainCT> apachelogger: nice quest :)
<RainCT> but a KDE package.. that's evil *g*
<RainCT> quadrispr0: nope, I hadn't time today
<quadrispr0> ah, ok ;)
<nxvl> james_w: i'm just working on ssmtp merge, and i've just noticed it's maintained in svn on debian
<directhex> DktrKranz, nah, the new GUI will be based on Mono using the Windows Presentation Framework libs nicked from a Vista box
<laga> DktrKranz: that's cool if it's gonna ship with irssi
<sebner> RainCT: very evil
<nxvl> james_w: so i better move it to bzr branches, but the question is, where?
<nxvl> james_w: i should create a branch on motu or in the server team?
<james_w> nxvl: I don't really have a good answer for that, sorry.
<nxvl> james_w: which are the plans
<nxvl> oh ok
<nxvl> os just wherever it fits?
<DktrKranz> directhex, wow, mono! And what about bash brainfuck porting?
<james_w> nxvl: some like to have the owner match the uploader group, some like to have it where it will be worked on
<DktrKranz> laga, you have to write your own client to connect to IRC, irssi is too GUI-friendly
<directhex> DktrKranz, no need, we have brainfuck for .net!
<laga> DktrKranz: oh. can i have perl?
<james_w> nxvl: launchpad will grow support for branches where the write permission is tied to the upload permission soon, but until then you're a bit stuck.
<nxvl> james_w: so for this case server team
<DktrKranz> laga, no. just asm
<james_w> nxvl: my opinion is put them wherever you like. If someone outside the team want to upload and push they will find you and ask you to help
<RainCT> apachelogger: that package is funny :P
<NCommander> bahahah
<nxvl> right, i will talk to the team
<nxvl> thank you!
<directhex> hah! i can find a brainfuck.net compiler made in python, and one made in c. no self-hosting ones for some reason
<directhex> why woukdn't you write a brainfuck compiler in brainfuck?
<sebner> directhex: to learn a language you have to write a compiler for the language in the language :P
<directhex> sebner, precisely!
<sebner> directhex: great talk ;)
<directhex> http://modbf.sourceforge.net/ - why?
<ajmitch> why not?
<NCommander> ack
<NCommander> brainfrack
<directhex> this one's 306 lines of C# and works fine
<sebner> directhex: what?
<directhex> hm, this one's non-free
<directhex> sebner, bf.net compilers
<sebner> directhex: WTH? xD crazy
<directhex> this one's closed source, written in VB.NET, and comes with a full BF IDE
<directhex> it translates your BF code to VB, C, JS. that's cute
<sebner> directhex: the other question is if it's working xD
<directhex> this GUI one? no. needs porting work, e.g. stop hard-coding "\" into paths
<bmm> Thanks everybody for the comments on my upload. I'll nag people about it again another day. Cya!
<directhex> yay, vb.net support has landed in ubunt
<directhex> i mean, it's a crappy language, but it's used by plenty of windows people, so it makes ubuntu more attractive
<icf7> Mmm .., when I call  pbuilder build mydsc.dsc , pbuilder fails because it requests out-of-date versions of various dependencies. Nevertheless,  pbuilder login  ,  apt-get install somedependency  works fine. Any ideas?
<NCommander> icf7, try pbuilder update
<icf7> NCommander: Already did that. Anyway, the --build and --login options are supposed to work with the same chroot, aren't they?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> When building dsc, are you sure your not trying to pull in a dependency that is too new for your pbuilder chroot?
<icf7> NCommander: no, all dependencies are versionless
<NCommander> curious
<NCommander> Is your pbuilder instance using the same ubuntu release as you are?
<icf7> Oh! Got it. I have two pbuilders, pbuilder(unmaintained) and pbuilder-sid(up-to-date) which is a script  pbuilder "$@" --someoptions . I knew pbuilder is weird when it comes to option placement, but that weird ...
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-11
<NCommander> Can not upgrade
<NCommander> An upgrade from 'jaunty' to 'intrepid' is not supported with this tool.
<NCommander> Thats a new error
<jmarsden> NCommander: Maybe "an upgrade from jaunty to intrepid is a downgrade" would be a better error message? :-)
<NCommander> update-manager obviously isn't fully aware of Jaunty at this time
 * NCommander uses aptitude
<RainCT> good night
 * ScottK smites a user and doesn't feel a bit guilty.
<ScottK> (-devel-discuss)
<directhex> mono_2.0-1_i386.changes uploaded successfully to localhost
<ajmitch> now people can stop complaining so much
<ajmitch> to experimental?
<directhex> ajmitch, aye
<directhex> ajmitch, of course, 2.0.1 is out do they still get to complain
<ajmitch> heh
 * ajmitch saw that someone is wanting to package portable.net again
<ajmitch> I really don't think it's that useful
<directhex> apps need to make use of the new deps following the latest package split though
<directhex> ajmitch, hanska? I told him not to bother
<ajmitch> there's so much that just won't run
<jdong> *glares at nspluginwrapper*
<jdong> stupid untraceable segfaults
<directhex> nspluginwrapper sucks *so bad*
<jdong> any pointers on how to figure out more than "??? () in /lib32/libc.so.6"?
<directhex> if only we had a rich media plugin with actual source, with actual amd64 versions
<directhex> on a completely unrelated note, anyone for moonlight packages?
<ajmitch> those sort of things generally indicate missing debug symbols, but I'd assume you have those installed
<jdong> directhex: sigh you and your mono rhetoric
<jdong> *ducks*
<jdong> ajmitch: are there debug symbols for ia32-libs?
<crimsun> (swfdec isn't so bad)
<ajmitch> directhex: you want people to package moonlight, or test packages?
<ajmitch> jdong: no idea
<directhex> ajmitch, well, i have packages ready already for 0.8.1, but it's not so useful right now
<ajmitch> why not?
<directhex> doesn't work on many sites. 1.0 should have "full" silverlight 1.0 compatibility... unfortunately SL2 was released recently & many sites have updated to target it
<ajmitch> chasing a moving target is fun
<directhex> especially for a young project
<directhex> 1.0 is branched though
<ajmitch> yes, it's not so bad for flash
<directhex> it does do *something* though - http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/moonlight.png
<directhex> initial support for SL2 should arrive relatively quickly - the first major chunk of code, the silverlight classlib, is already provided by mono; the second major chunk of code, the silverlight widget toolkit, was released by MS under a free software license to help accelerate SL development
<directhex> so the moon devs "just" need to pull it all together & bugfix it to death
<ScottK> Right, but many of us will consider 'doesn't support $DRMSCHEME' a feature (doesn't matter much that's it's MS').
<directhex> i suspect building against ffmpeg rather than letting it download the binary codecs from microsoft.com is a pretty good way to guarantee it won't support drm
<ScottK> OK.  Then maybe I don't understand what silverlight is about.
<jdong> isn't that also a pretty good way to guarantee it isn't legal in NA?
<jdong> ScottK: it's basically the .NET equivalent of Macromedia Flash.
<ScottK> Ah.
<jdong> rich multimedia/UI applet system
<ajmitch> what did you think it was?
<ScottK> OK.
<jdong> ajmitch: probably a media format
 * ScottK thought it was MS DRM thing.
<jdong> it's primarily used these days for streaming video, i can see the misconception
<ScottK> Shows how much attention I pay.
<directhex> jdong, libavcodec's in main.
<jdong> directhex: which isn't legal in the US.
<jdong> directhex: if you notice, no North American Linux vendor dares ship with MP3, MPEG4, etc decoders deriving from libavcodec.
 * jdong points at the $50 fluendo codec pack
<directhex> jdong, talk to siretart. someone decided ffmpeg was worth putting in main, albeit with some elements removed
<jdong> directhex: hey I was in favor of that too
<jdong> directhex: I'm just pointing out, that, technically you cannot use it in the US due to GPL incompatibility with the patent/royalty terms for the codecs being decoded
<jdong> is Bob at home going to care? Probably not. But any Linux product or business deployment of Linux should probably care.
<directhex> which is why upstream don't distribute binaries built against ffmpeg
<directhex> but ubuntu *does* build things against ffmpeg, hence the rather large rdepends list
<jdong> I guess fundamentally, it's whether or not Ubuntu *cares* about software patent laws in one particular jurisdiction.
<jdong> my gut feeling to that is, no. the archive should care about redistributability according to software licenses, not silly particular laws in each jurisdiction.
<directhex> you'd be lucky to escape with anything beyond /bin/true in the archive if you started trying to follow the rules for 300+ countries on every package
<directhex> and even that would be touch and go
<jdong> directhex: exactly
<jdong> I think where we draw the line between main and multiverse's -unstripped variant is the presence of patent-covered encoders. I think legal history shows that when you use an encumbered encoder without paying the royalty, that's when "they" start caring.
<jdong> but, if you look at Novell or Redhat "stripped" ffmpeg, it's literally down to PCM/WAV, ogg vorbis, and theora.
<directhex> so i got confused. was that a "yay!" or a "boo!" to linking moonlight against ubuntu's ffmpeg?
<jdong> directhex: I don't know, to be honest. I'd like that to be a personal "yay" but maybe a boo to commercial Ubuntu users.
<jdong> directhex: is it not possible to make it a choice which to use?
<directhex> jdong, the alternative, which i suspect would receive a more negative response (ironically), would be to disable media support, and rely on the plugin offering you to agree to a microsoft eula and download some .so files from microsoft.com
<directhex> jdong, could i package both? i dunno, might need to run configure/make twice, or have a second source package
<directhex> and the ms media pack is i386/amd64 only
<jdong> directhex: eep the archive admins typically don't like the 2-source-package approach. Does ffmpeg offer the same spectrum of codec support as the binaries? (I bet not)
<jdong> directhex: if this is going to affect watching populare Silverlight streaming media sites, then I'd say it's important to at least offer the choice of MS binary codecs
<directhex> jdong, in my tests, ffmpeg-from-main has complete support for the 9 codecs required by silverlight except for one rarely-used audio codec
<directhex> jdong, but it's possible the ms media pack would also enable drm-protected media playback (urgh), which obviously ffmpeg won't do
<directhex> i'd need to ask upstream
<jdong> directhex: as much as I hate DRM-protected media, it's probably going to create more unrest in the userbase if we don't support it :(
<jdong> I don't think we personally gain much from a "DRM sucks so we don't support it on purpose" outlook
<directhex> jdong, i suspect people will burn effigies of me either way
 * jdong agrees :)
<directhex> on a related note, who feels like syncing mono from experimental? ^_^
<directhex> hang on, it'll still be in NEW
 * wgrant incinerates directhex.
<directhex> wgrant, i prefer the term "immolates"
<directhex> i've asked upstream. silverlight 1.0 has no DRM capability, so moonlight doesn't either. so we only lose one audio codec by linking ffmpeg instead of using the ms media pack
<directhex> silverlight 2.0 reopens the question
<superm1> can you not drop in place a codec pack and have that used though, or does it really have to be linked?
<directhex> jdong, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Moonlight#head-269adabf77c0d3971046e1d0b1413878912bf0cb
<directhex> superm1, the codec pack is designed to drop in-place, but my understanding is it requires the plugin to have been explicitly built without ffmpeg support - you can't have ffmpeg AND mscodecs in the same plugin
<superm1> oh that's going to be annoying
<superm1> fallback support would be nice...
<directhex> i know. it's an open question really
<directhex> for now... i dunno. once 1.0 is tagged & i have a tarball to work with, i'll muck about with the possibilities
<directhex> i'm trying to make this a first-class package. all the special debian/control values for Ubufox and everything
<jdong> superm1: agreed, it'd be REALLY nice if it can fallback to one or the other
<directhex> perhaps two packages then, even if it means messy mangling of the source package. one could get listed by the plugin finder as "Novell Moonlight (evil binary codec support)" and one as "Novell Moonlight (freedom-loving joy edition)" or somesuch
<jdong> i.e. like the gstreamer pluggable infrastructure
<jdong> directhex: yeah I think in this case it's not a bad idea to offer two alternatives
<superm1> directhex, at least until fallback support is in the plugin itself, i think that would be a good solution
<jdong> one built with MS codec support, one with ffmpeg linking
<directhex> is running ./configure and make twice in one package acceptable?
<jdong> at least a couple packages in the archive do this.
<superm1> i've seen it before in some package
<directhex> names would help
<jdong> one of the media apps does this for static and non-static versions of its library...
<jdong> trying to think of which
<superm1> i thought some app did it for a gui and non gui version of itself too
<superm1> again not much help though since i dont remember :)
<crimsun> vlc used to.
<crimsun> it was a royal PITA, and I'm very glad that's no longer the practise.
<jdong> crimsun: hey while I have you here, have you looked into that pulseaudio suspend/resume issue/workaround?
<crimsun> 202089?
<crimsun> if so, yes, hyperair and I chatted about it last night
<jdong> crimsun: yeah that's the one
<crimsun> my concern is that it's not sufficient, and it needs more testing to verify that it doesn't reintroduce 8.04's suspend-on-idle race
 * jdong nods
<crimsun> (the race concerns multiple audio devices, one of which is external, usually usb-audio, so when loading/enabling module-suspend-on-idle, module-alsa-s{ink,ource} bomb)
<jdong> I was bitten by that bug after hibernate yesterday, pidgin immediately found it amusing to swap the system to death
<jdong> hmm shame I don't have multiple audio devices or external ones so I can't really test that personally
<gouki> When submitting an ITP, is there something that needs to be done on Ubuntu side? Add the link to the bug on LP or REVU, or something like that?
<directhex> <kangaroo> moon allows both
<directhex> <kangaroo> it defaults to using mscodecs if available
<directhex> <kangaroo> but it wont prompt you to install the mscodecs unless you reach a site with a missing codec
<directhex> superm1, seems it already does what we need :)
<zul> james_w: around?
<nhandler> What files should I attach to a bug report requesting that a package be upgraded to a new upstream release? This isn't a merge/sync request from Debian.
<woody86_> any body have problems updating their packages after upgrading to 9.04? I try to do a partial upgrade, but then it says "Can not upgrade. An upgrade from 'jaunty' to 'intrepid' is not supported with this tool"
<directhex> nhandler, ideally, a new diff.gz ;)
<nhandler> directhex: Do they still want the interdiff?
<directhex> nhandler, god knows. i lost track of which diffs to use when. i found the easy option was just to work on debian
<nhandler> directhex: That is why I am asking here. I can't even find the wiki page that talks about this anymore
<nellery> nhandler: it's just the .diff.gz
<NCommander> hey persia
<nhandler> Thanks nellery. By any chance do you have a link to the wiki page that mentions this? I know it exists, I just don't know where it is (I lost my bookmarks after the upgrade)
<nellery> nhandler: sadly no, I figured this out from irc
 * persia goes off to find the documentation of interdiff, and update it.  Please attach debdiff for the same upstream version, or a merge, and diff.gz for a new diff.gz
<directhex> s/new diff.gz/new upstream version/ ?
<persia> Yes.
<directhex> bedtime.
<nhandler> Night directhex
<persia> Anyway, hints for submission to the sponsoring queue are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (and now actually say the right thing)
<nhandler> I just put together a quick script that lists how many packages each Developer still needs to sync/merge from Debian. It gets its list from DaD's last Ubuntu uploader field. Enjoy: http://nhandler.servehttp.com/merges.pl
 * persia points out that merges aren't strictly assigned, and that just because one isn't listed doesn't mean one's work is done : UEHS lists *lots* of packages.
<nhandler> persia: I am aware of that. However, the person listed as the last Ubuntu Uploader is the one who usually gets first dibs at performing the merge/sync. If they do not wish to carry out this task, they are able to comment on it on DaD, and someone else will take care of it for them.
<lifeless> nhandler: of course, this then means that folk that are overloaded have to comment on huge numbers of packages to say they can't do stuff?!
<nhandler> lifeless: It isn't a requirement. However, it makes it clear to other people that that person is not planning on performing the merge.
<lifeless> nhandler: but that clarity is only needed because you're asserting that the last toucher has some sort of lock
<lifeless> Ubuntu doesn't have maintainer locks though, so -> I am confused
<nhandler> lifeless: I never said they had a lock. However, in most documents regarding merges, it does say that you should contact the last ubuntu uploader prior to performing the merge. This implies that they do have first dibs on the merge (like I stated)
<crimsun> I've had reservations about that guideline; it tended to introduce latency in previous merge cycles
<wgrant> I think that convention is being ignored more and more, fortunately.
<nhandler> wgrant: Last cycle, they sent out an email telling people to ignore that convention (I think after DIF).
<ScottK> It was right about DIF.
<ScottK> OTOH I've seen people who don't understand packages dive in and do bad merges.  If someon who is familiar with a package is going to do it, they should be able to.
<NCommander> Unpacking OO.o build tree - [ go and have some coffee ] ...
<NCommander> That's not a good sign for the time this build will take ...
<ScottK> NCommander: Work on my library problem while you wait ...
<wgrant> NCommander: You have reached a new level of insanity.
<NCommander> wgrant, I'm building it on a 733Mhz processor :-)
<wgrant> And another.
<NCommander> I wonder if LTS+1 will be out by time it finishes
<NCommander> wgrant, with only 256MB of RAM
<wgrant> Oh, then it'll be quick.
<wgrant> ... to be OOM-killed.
 * NCommander has 4GB of swap
<lifeless> how does the build go again? malloc(4000000000);
<wgrant> lifeless: No; that's too quick.
<NCommander> Anyone want to take estimates to when it finishes building?
<wgrant> lifeless: It malloc(1)s lots of times.
<ScottK> NCommander: I predict it won't finish.
<NCommander> Probably
 * ScottK once tried to build Eclipse on a similar machine.
<ScottK> It died.
 * NCommander did build Eclipse on this
 * NCommander build OOo on an m68k
<NCommander> *built
<NCommander> The build time was something like 3-4 weeks
<NCommander> But it compiled from source!
<wgrant> Why would one want to build OOo on m68k?
<NCommander> To be a release architecture on Debian, you need 98% of the archive built, and 95% up-to-date
<NCommander> and we have a few free buildds
<NCommander> :-)
 * NCommander notes we scare the Gentoo m68k users
<NCommander> wgrant, w.r.t. to sanity, I'm hoping I hit the insane counter upper limit, and it rolls into sanity
<NCommander> O_o;
<NCommander> the diff is over 100MB :-/
<NCommander> compressed
<NCommander> WOO, ./configure is running
<NCommander> ScottK, O___o, I didn't know we allowed non-MOTU to be mentors
<nhandler> NCommander: UCD's are allowed to be mentors in the Junior Mentoring Program
<nhandler> I believe you need to be a MOTU to be a mentor in the senior mentoring program
<NCommander> That seems like a *really* bad idea since we have no bar to measure what UCDs actually know
<NCommander> nhandler, see Scott's message to the list, and my follow up
<wgrant> NCommander: What's so chaotic about pulseaudio being removed?
<NCommander> it took ALSA with it
 * nhandler is reading the messages now
<ScottK> NCommander: I found the deadly symbol in libspf2.
<NCommander> 1. what, and 2. how?
<ScottK> __libc_subinit
<nhandler> NCommander: Personally, I don't think there should be rank restrictions on who can be a mentor. If someone is willing to teach and has the knowledge, that should be enough. Maybe we should create a quiz to verify that the mentors know what they are talking about (for non-MOTUs)
<NCommander> ScottK, O_o;
<ScottK> Found a reference to private libc symbols starting with __libc (thanks to Google) and then grepp'ed the source.
<wgrant> nhandler: If the mentors know what they're talking about, why aren't they MOTU?
<NCommander> Ah
<nhandler> wgrant: You need more than knowledge to become a MOTU
<ScottK> NCommander: Any chance you could look at it and see if you can come up with an appropriate patch to avoid that?
<NCommander> nhandler, the only exception I could see are people who are DDs, and haven't been here that long, but those are few and far between, and even then, I'd perfer that they be MOTU so we know that they're aren't going to teach invalid packaging techniques
<NCommander> ScottK, you know, this library the freaking bastard child from hell :-P!
<ScottK> nhandler: Yes, but right now apparently the rule is there is no actual requirement for any technical knowledge at all.
<NCommander> Oooooh
<ScottK> NCommander: It's a "Learning experience".
<NCommander> Ew
<nhandler> ScottK: That is true. They are assuming that UCDs know what they are talking about
<nhandler> That is why I suggested a quiz
<NCommander> The reason this uses an internal glibc symbol is because it uses an internal glibc library
<ScottK> nhandler: And that's the flaw.  UCD is not somehting you get for technical expertise.  "They know because they are UCD" is a logical falacy.
<crimsun> it's a good idea to have some sort of DM/DD/MOTU guideline for mentoring.  that said, there have been mentors who are no longer MOTU or DM/DD.
<NCommander> ScottK, yeah, I think I can fix this
 * NCommander pukes
<nhandler> There is no way to keep people from teaching. We have a large forum community of people trying to "teach" each other. We do not restrict who is able to teach there.
<nhandler> The only nice thing about the Mentoring Program is that it takes care of the hassle of hunting down a person who knows about MOTU-related activities
<ScottK> nhandler: Agreed, but it's different if we say, "Here is your official mentor.  Listen to him."
<nhandler> But what makes it "official"
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. I was looking at Bug #284910, and it appears to be because of libtool. Why Debian version is 1.5.26 and ubuntu one, 2.2.4? Is there a way to use  the Debian version in Ubuntu?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284910 in gdal "libgdal1-1.5.0 can not recompiled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284910
<fabrice_sp_> (It's a FTBFS in Intrepid)
<ScottK> nhandler: It's the MOTU mentoring program.
<nhandler> For instance, persia helped teach me the basics of patching when I first got into development. I never went through the mentoring reception. I still consider him my mentor (even though it wasn't official)
<persia> nhandler, You were registered in that program, and when we lost touch, I sent a note saying that it had ended, although I've been glad to see you back, and with your work since then.
<nhandler> persia: I was? I never remember sending them an email
<ScottK> nhandler: That's great.  That's the kind of mentoring I'm in favor of.
<persia> nhandler, You didn't : you asked me, and I fed your name to them because we were already in touch, and I didn't have time for more people.
<NCommander> ScottK, ok, I think I got it
<ScottK> NCommander: Cool.
<nhandler> persia: Ok, but the difference is, you started mentoring me, and then you informed the reception about that (so that they knew you couldn't mentor anyone else). I didn't actually go through the reception to get you
<ScottK> NCommander: You're MOTU now and it's in Universe, so go for it.
 * NCommander hates mucking around with auto****
<ScottK> B.S.  You love it and you know it.
<persia> nhandler, Sure, but you also showed up in this channel a couple times, and were clearly looking for someone, and that happened to be the same week the Mentoring Program started, so it's a bit of a special case.  Had there been a program then, you probably would have signed up.
<ScottK> Had there continued to be no program he probably would have gotten help just fine too.
<nhandler> persia: I did not realize the mentoring program was just starting up then. And ScottK, you are correct, I probably would have continued without the program. But it was nice having a mentor.
<persia> nhandler, Whether there is a MOTU Mentoring Program or not doesn't necessarily affect that.  If I remember correctly, you had looked at one of the bugs I'd offered to mentor as a starting point.  Whether self-selected LP declaration of mentoring is any better than a matching spreadsheet is unknown.
<persia> Given the number of people who seem to want to find a mentor before they do any work, I'm not tempted to throw away the Mentoring Program, but so far it's not shown itself to be significantly better than what proceeded it.
<ScottK> persia: One way I think it's almost certainly different is that when a perceived authority says to a new person, "Here is your official mentor", said new person is much more likely to assume they know what they are talking about.
<nhandler> persia: That is true. I started with one of the bugs you had offered to mentor. This method has 1 advantage. Usually, if a person is offering to mentor someone on a bug, it means that that person knows how to fix the bug and is willing to teach someone else how to do that.
<ScottK> persia: How many people want to wait because there exists a program to provide mentors and so that's thought to be the appropriate path?
<nhandler> Well, I'm too tired to think straight any more. I'm off to bed.
<ScottK> Good night.
<persia> ScottK, unquantifiable, although both before and after there was such a program, some people would ask for a mentor and weren't satisfied with "here's some bugs, ask here if you get stuck".
<ScottK> True, but I've always considered if you aren't a bit of a self-starter you won't be around here for long anyway.
<persia> I'd say that there are several groups of folk: those that just do, those that want a mentor,and those that are trying to figure out the best way to get started.  No idea about percentages though.
<persia> Well, you don't have to be a self-starter, but you do need to have some reason to be doing.
<ScottK> Fair enough.
 * persia would actually prefer a wider variety of motives to be working on Ubuntu :)
<jmarsden> For me it's hard to be at all consistent without an external "reason to be doing", so far... I'm active for a week or two and then Real Life comes along and I stay away for weeks... which is why I'm still not even a contributor, never mind a MOTU :-)
<ScottK> jmarsden: Yes, but stick with it and you'll get there.
<ScottK> We all come and go to some degree.
<jmarsden> Yes, I intend to ... if I had a month's vacation to do nothing but this stuff, I'd be there now :-)
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> Do we have a spot on the wiki for little tips and tricks?
 * ScottK just ran into a situation with a package that now builds in Jaunty and believes it should depend on a non-existant package called glibc_private.
<lifeless> sweet
<ScottK> It turns out this means that the package is building against private glibc symbols and this is no longer allowed, so the package is built uninstallable on purpose.
<ScottK> So the trick is to find said symbol and make it go away.
<lifeless> yay binary uploads to debian
<wgrant> It was never allowed.
<ScottK> OK.  It no longer works.
<wgrant> Right.
<ScottK> This package has been in Ubuntu since a very long time and the offending bits are there from the beginning.
<wgrant> Eww.
<persia> You might put it under recipes.  All the other tips&tricks seem to have gone.
<ScottK> So the trick that I eventually discovered is that private glibc symbols all start with __glibc and so if you know that, you can grep the source.
<ScottK> persia: I looked at that page and the description didn't seem to fit.
<ScottK> It talked about ways to use tools MOTU use regularly.
<jmarsden> ScottK: Well, I suppose MOTU's use grep pretty regularly :-)
<ScottK> True.
<ScottK> But it's certainly not a common situation.
<jmarsden> Agreed.
<jmarsden> Would adding it under "Other packaging tasks" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO work??
<persia> Well, grepping for various constrctions is common.  You could just use __glibc as an example.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I can do it that way.
<persia> Well, grepping for various constrctions is common.  You could just use __glibc as an example./  That might be a good candidate location.
 * persia curses the up arrow
<persia> That was supposed to say "where did stefanlsd7s excellent guide go..."
<ScottK> Since it's now policy not to mention maintainer change in debian/changelog, someone might want to make a better example for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<nellery> why not mention the update-maintainer script?
<ScottK> I think that'd be a little confusing for an example of how to apply a debdiff.
 * ScottK goes to bed.
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> dholbach: Good morning. :-)
<dholbach> hi slytherin
<iulian> wgrant: May I take the maxima merge too?
<iulian> Morning dholbach, slytherin.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<wgrant> iulian: Go ahead. It should build now.
<iulian> OK, thanks.
<stefanlsd> anyone else handing out merges :)
<slytherin> stefanlsd: will you do jigdo merge? I did last merge but I will not get time for next 24 hours.
<stefanlsd> slytherin: will have a look at it :)
<gouki> good morning everyone.
<jmarsden> gouki: Good evening (it is 11:10pm in California)
<geser> good morning dholbach, slytherin
<dholbach> hi geser
<gouki> jmarsden, hehe. I just woke up. It's 7:10AM. It's raining like hell, and I bet it's pretty sunny there :)
<slytherin> geser: good morning
<iulian> gouki: UK?
<jmarsden> gouki: Well, it's pretty dark here, at 11pm :-)  It was sunny earlier
<gouki> iulian, close. Two to the left .. Portugal.
<iulian> Ahh
<gouki> jmarsden, d'ohh! Indeed.
<gouki> Submitted an ITP but still didn't receive the bug number ... :S
<slytherin> [OT] - Has anyone purchased AVM FritzBox router? If yes, how good is it?
<iulian> wgrant: Should I close bug #242243 in the changelog? It has been fixed in Debian.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242243 in maxima "New maxima FTBFS with "/bin/sh: ./maxima: No such file or directory"" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242243
<wgrant> iulian: Please do, if it does actually build.
<iulian> wgrant: I'm building it now.
<geser> slytherin: re bug 295539: what's the advantage of building it for jvm 1.4?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295539 in libjogl-java "Please merge libjogl-java 1.1.1+dak1-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295539
<soren> NCommander: Around?
<stefanlsd> slytherin: merged if you would like to review it. It also built ok. - Bug #296648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296648 in jigdo "Please merge jigdo 0.7.3-2 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296648
<NCommander> soren, for some defintions of around
<soren> -> /msg
<iulian> wgrant: I'm waiting for a response from bug #285420. Looks like it's the same as Debian bug #480308.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285420 in maxima "maxima "Couldn't protect"" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285420
<ubottu> Debian bug 480308 in maxima "maxima: segfaults in quad_qagi()" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/480308
<iulian> wgrant: In the mean time I'm looking for a fix.
<iulian> wgrant: If he confirms that is the same bug I will do the merge because it's fixed in Debian.
<iulian> And maybe we can backport it to Intrepid.
<iulian> Bug #261056 needs investigation as well.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261056 in maxima "maxima crashes: Couldn't protect - out of memory allocating 7 bytes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261056
<iulian> wgrant: Or we can upload the new version to Jaunty and ask the reporters to test it to see if they still have the problems?
<iulian> Hey DktrKranz.
<DktrKranz> morning iulian
<DktrKranz> morning *
<wgrant> iulian: Upload to Jaunty, backport to Intrepid, get people to test, then work out where the problem lies, SRU it.
<wgrant> I forgot the "work out where in the 53KLOC gcl diff the bug is".
<iulian> wgrant: OK
<slytherin> stefanlsd: Looks fine to me. But I am not a MOTU so can't sponsor it. 2 comments. 1. There is another bug for move to libdb4,6. Make sure you also add that bug in changelog. 2. I was thinking if we should update ubuntu mirror list. Need comment on that from someone. Probably ask in #ubuntu-devel.
<slytherin> geser: re: libjogl-java, no specific advantage. But I think we should target 1.4 unless the app/lib specifically needs JRE 1.5 or higher.
<iulian> wgrant: Hmm, when I try to build maxima it fails with unmet dep (pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: gcl (>= 2.6.7-44) but it is not installable), even though I updated my Jaunty pbuilder.
<iulian> I see that Jaunty has gcl version 2.6.7-45, it should have worked.
<iulian> Am I missing something?
<wgrant> iulian: It failed on !(hppa|ia64)
<wgrant> Which probably means it needs a giveback.
 * wgrant does so.
<iulian> wgrant: Where did you see that?
<wgrant> iulian: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcl/2.6.7-45
<wgrant> But it all just failed again.
<wgrant> WTF
<wgrant> Since when do things succeed only on the most obscure archs!?
<persia> It's the new plan for ia64 domination
<DktrKranz> gcl? /me hides
<iulian> Huh
<wgrant> DktrKranz: I'm hiding further away.
<wgrant> Bug #43150 was enough to keep me away for life.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 43150 in wxmaxima "[SRU] maxima frontends fail to connect" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<DktrKranz> wgrant: I found a way to fix it
<wgrant> DktrKranz: How?
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> It's in the dep installation.
<wgrant> I see.
<DktrKranz> a combination of black magic, voodoo and some inner-african rituals
<wgrant> I can't connect to launchpadlibrarian.net from here for some reason.
<wgrant> Ah, no, just lag fooling me into thinking it was deps.
<DktrKranz> but main point is some applications are still failing
<wgrant> Arfgergerhgear;ogi ewfgewrouf ewf
<wgrant> It has its own binutils, doesn't it?
<DktrKranz> don't remember which ones, but they seem racy
<DktrKranz> yes
<wgrant> NCommander!
<DktrKranz> he already trie
<DktrKranz> d
<NCommander> wgrant, ?
<wgrant> Oh, this is still that same issue?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: gcl \o/
<wgrant> NCommander: gcl needs to die.
<NCommander> Oh good
<NCommander> We have concurrence
<DktrKranz> NCommander: or your beloved 14Mb .diff.gz
<NCommander> I just say we delete it, and all its rdepends
<NCommander> They haven't worked since Gutsy AFAIK
<wgrant> But maxima rocks :(
<wgrant> maxima works fine.
<iulian> Indeed.
<NCommander> Can we compile it reliably :-)?
<wgrant> We could previously.
<DktrKranz> NCommander: we have something to do for jaunty, hooray!
<NCommander> Does this mean getting rid of gcl?
<DktrKranz> cruft-busters hat on? ;)
<NCommander> WOOOOOOOOOO
<wgrant> We can't get rid of gcl... but maybe it could be made a bit less crap.
<NCommander> yes.
<NCommander> Please.
<wgrant> How do other distros do it?
<NCommander> gcl has been unmaintained for awhile
<DktrKranz> I'd like to see gentoo
<NCommander> DktrKranz, not packaged AFAIK
<persia> Aren't there other CL implementations we could use?
<wgrant> cmucl
<NCommander> The Debian guy seem to decided that updating binutils was worth dumping in the diff
<DktrKranz> gah!
<DktrKranz> gentoo is good
<DktrKranz> and most of their fixes applies here
<NCommander> They don't ship ada last time I checked either :-)
<wgrant> The workaround for 43150 was to use cmucl to build it instead of gcl. It apparently worked fine.
<NCommander> So if we can use cmucl vs gcl
<DktrKranz> heh, ada :)
<NCommander> I say we transition out gcl
<persia> Then let's keep using cmucl until either it works, or it doesn't.
<wgrant> Let's first see what Fedora does.
<persia> (where "it" is confusingly supposed to reference "gcl")
<DktrKranz> what about fixing gcl to build, then test other applications as well?
<DktrKranz> it's broken now
<DktrKranz> so it won't harm much
<DktrKranz> in my ppa history there's already a working tentative
<DktrKranz> but some rdepends are racy
<NCommander> so I guess we transition things?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, we have six months to make everything settle
<persia> Something as core as a compiler ought get sorted in the next couple weeks though, or there'll be great pain later.  This is LTS+2: we're not supposed to break the world quite as badly this time, as theoretically the big transitions are complete for this extended cycle.
<NCommander> I personally think shipping a broken compiler is a greater risk
<NCommander> It could easily break without warning, and it has on compiling other packages
<NCommander> i.e. axiom
<persia> Right.  I'm not advocating shipping a broken compiler, just not expecting that we have six months to make everything settle.  It's more like 4 before freezes start to bite, and for something this big, it's better to get the issue well understood pre-UDS.
<NCommander> Oh, of course
<NCommander> BUt I think its something we at least need to put on the road map
<DktrKranz> Debian seems not affected, or just marginally
<DktrKranz> I saw a bug reporting a failure similar to ours, but it has been marked as wontfix there
<DktrKranz> since Debian buildds are fine with gcl
<DktrKranz> so, it's probably racy just here
<persia> Could be that Ubuntu buildds run with DEB_BUILD_OPTS=parallen=n+1
<DktrKranz> not sure, it fails in pbuilder too
<persia> But not in sid pbuilder?
<DktrKranz> no
<persia> Ah.  Ugly that.
<DktrKranz> I tried to disable every CFLAGS/LDFLAGS
<DktrKranz> no improvements
<DktrKranz> btw, is there a place I can find buildd configuration?
<wgrant> infinity's mind!
<DktrKranz> is that FOSS?
<DktrKranz> or bzr-gettable?
<wgrant> You can probably acquire a chroot if you need to, but that's probably not too useful.
<wgrant> File an LP bug.
<wgrant> bzr get lp:~adconrad
<wgrant> Done.
<persia> heh
<NCommander> so w.r.t. to gcl, what do we do?
<wgrant> Panic.
<DktrKranz> 404: not found
<NCommander> Oh ****
<wgrant> Woah. X crashed.
<NCommander> wow, gcl's magic is quite powerful!
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> It seems it didn't actually crash; it shut down gracefully.
<wgrant> No idea why.
 * wgrant can't poke into gcl's internals for at least another couple of weeks.
<DktrKranz> NCommander: I'd collect issues and file a spec about it
<DktrKranz> and try to fix it the best we can
<wgrant> No, no, file a Brainstorm idea. Brainstorm rules all now, it seems.
<stefanlsd> heh. latest version from 2005 08 10
<DktrKranz> wgrant: never look at it, TBH ;)
<DktrKranz> but if it useful to have this done, I'm a big supporter of it
<wgrant> No, it's entirely useless.
<wgrant> But everything for UDS had to go through it.
<DktrKranz> really?
<NCommander> ???
<DktrKranz> btw, gcl seems it has just 4 r-bdependencies
<persia> That doesn't seem insurmountable.
<DktrKranz> so, it can be easier to test if everything is fine
<DktrKranz> (I did reverse-build-depends gcl | wc -l, please correct me)
<persia> reverse-build-depends is arch-specific, and apt-cache specific, but otherwise trustworthy.
<DktrKranz> I did it on i386, I guess it collect most (if not all) of them
<slytherin> geser: One more point about libjogl-java. It compiles with GCJ as well. Hence it makes sense to compile for target JVM 1.4.
<persia> slytherin, Any good ideas about restoring some semblence of jre-independence for users?  I seem to remember a number of bugs about both -headless not being enough so, and then users getting gcj on top of that.
<slytherin> persia: users getting gcj is because of libraries having -gcj in recommends. I am not sure about 'exact' difference between -jre and -jre-headless, so I can't comment on that.
<persia> slytherin, Right.  It's just that you're recommending building libjogl-java to target 1.4, and referencing GCL compatibility as a benefit, so I wondered if you had ideas as to how to reduce total install footprint when supporting gcj.
<slytherin> persia: we could update these -gcj recommends to have them only for arch where openjdk is not available. Because as a user of i386, openjdk gives me more compatibility with Sun Java than GCJ. So I don't want GCJ to be installed. But for users for other arch, where openjdk is not available, having these -gcj packages installed by default makes sense.
<persia> slytherin, Hrm.  There ought be a way to do that as part of the meta packages, rather than on a per-package basis.  Probably needs more thought.
 * persia adds it to the list of meditation topics
<slytherin> persia: is it possible to configure the system such that it will ignore a particular recommends A if it pulls a dependency B?
<siretart> slytherin: you could pin the package A to priority 0
<slytherin> siretart: Yes I can. But as I said the decision is to be made based on if it pulls dependency B (constant). So it can not be per package A (variable).
<siretart> slytherin: I don't think apt's dependency resolver can do this. you might want to look at the apt sources though (beware, it's C++)
<iulian> wgrant: In this case what should we do with maxima?
<wgrant> iulian: Does the versioned build-dep look like it really needs to be that tight?
<iulian> wgrant: Let me check again the debian changelog. It said something about the version.
<wgrant> Remember that we often tighten build-deps just so we don't have to stagger uploads to get it built against a new one.
<wgrant> When it might not actually need that to build properly.
<emgent> wgrant: o/
<Hobbsee> NCommander: do some more backports, please!
<iulian> wgrant: * Bug fix: "No such file or directory", thanks to Lucas Nussbaum (Closes: #474909). Build-dep against latest gcl
<NCommander> Hobbsee, why?
<wgrant> Grrgergefqwefweafwe
<wgrant> iulian: Give up for now, I guess.
<iulian> wgrant: We are going back to your bug.
<iulian> Right.
<DktrKranz> iulian: gcl is broken in Ubuntu, I had a working gcl some times ago, but I can't guarantee for rdepends
<DktrKranz> and I'm sure it won't fix it
<iulian> Yup
<DktrKranz> I'd like to fix it, or at least make it less broken
<DktrKranz> GNAT was fine in hardy-updates, but better fix gcl during development
<iulian> Indeed, it's better to make it less broken or fix it entirely. If we're planning to get rid of it, we're also going to lose some of the good applications, including maxima.
<iulian> Or if there is a way to make it build with something else.
<DktrKranz> maxima FTBFS since ages, IIRC
<DktrKranz> I identified the right version
<wgrant> I couldn't merge maxima during Intrepid, right.
<DktrKranz> it was -46 that broke it, IIRC
<DktrKranz> but I noted in in the bug report
<wgrant> Broke what? maxima, or gcl?
<iulian> wgrant: Yea, that was because of debian bug #474909
<DktrKranz> maxima
<ubottu> Debian bug 474909 in maxima "maxima: FTBFS: /bin/sh: ./maxima: No such file or directory" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/474909
<wgrant> iulian: Yep.
 * DktrKranz is going to file a spec to keep track of the issues
<iulian> DktrKranz: You're not working on openct merge, aren't you?
<iulian> If you're no, can I have it?
<DktrKranz> iulian: I've already done it
<DktrKranz> IIRC
<iulian> Hmm, let me check again.
<DktrKranz> and it took me about two hours to testbuild it ;)
<iulian> Ahh, right.
<iulian> Huh, I haven't fixed anything today.
<DktrKranz> not sure if I forwarded to debian, BTS was unreachable yesterday
<Spatman> Hey, i about to get in to Debian packaging. and i at the control file. What shoud i fill in in the "Section:"
<DktrKranz> I'll have a look today
<iulian> Spatman: http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/
<iulian> Spatman: You might want to have a look at the Debian policy as well.
<persia> Spatman, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<iulian> There you go.
<iulian> wgrant: May I have the powersave merge?
 * iulian confirms that he is a little bit annoying.
<wgrant> iulian: Of course.
<Hobbsee> iulian: i doubt wgrant's attached to that
<Hobbsee> ah, he's back
<wgrant> I can't do anything for a couple of weeks.
<wgrant> And I've been wanting to get rid of that since late Edgy.
<NCommander> RId of what?
<Hobbsee> iulian: you can pick up my couple of universe merges, if you want.
<wgrant> Get rid of my TIL status for powersave.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yeah, I think you took that one off me originally, thanks ;)
<iulian> Free merges!
<iulian> wgrant, Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> iulian: I have a suspicion that at least one of them is still a manual merge (differing tarballs).  Either that, or they should be syncs.
<Hobbsee> unless i'ts a dh_icons change
<iulian> Ah-ha, OK.
<Hobbsee> or i've forgotten :P
 * Hobbsee remembers trying to get them into a syncable state before
<Spatman> Want is a most in the Control when making a packaging?
<persia> Spatman, Rather than looking at documentation, you may do well to examine the source of several existing packages, and use those as a basis.
 * iulian just noticed that gEdit opens in approximately one minute (?)
<wgrant> iulian: Disable the File Browser Pane plugin. A fix is in the works.
<iulian> wgrant: Disabled.
<Spatman> persia, okej thanks
<iulian> Anyway, I don't use it (vim ftw). It was just... weird.
<directhex> dpkg-source: info: building mono using existing mono_2.0.orig.tar.gz
<Spatman> Some one have a good guide how to make the rule file when making a Debian file to ubuntu?
<persia> Spatman, Do you mean converting from Debian to Ubuntu, or creating something from scratch?
<Spatman> Persia, i am making from scrathc
<persia> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<persia> See the packaging guide linked there.
<porthose> persia: FYI just got conformation, RFE granted for ampache :)
<persia> \o/ Getting closer every day.
<directhex> dpkg-deb: building package `libmono-corlib2.0-cil' in `../libmono-corlib2.0-cil_2.0-1_all.deb'.
<weboide> dholbach: I've posted the diff.gz and .dsc (what I find weird is the diff.gz is only a diff for the debian directory) is that alright?
<iulian> wgrant: It's done. Would you like to review it?
<dholbach> weboide: yes, that's fine - the debdiff you posted also contained changes that were introduced upstream, with the .diff.gz and .dsc it will be easy to just apply the packaging changes that are necessary
<weboide> dholbach: so in fact, you don't need the upstream changes because it's taking them "automatically"?
<wgrant> iulian: I've not got time now, sorry.
<iulian> wgrant: Sure, no problem.
<dholbach> weboide: if I download the .tar.gz from the upstream page, applying the .diff.gz (just by runnin dpkg-source -x bla.dsc) should be fine :)
<weboide> okay, good to know, thanks dholbach :)
<dholbach> rock on!
 * iulian subscribed u-u-s.
<iulian> Is there anyway I can remove a project from launchpad?
<wgrant> iulian: You can request that an ~admin deactivate it, which is basically the same.
<iulian> OK, thanks.
<gouki> I submitted an ITP but still didn't receive the bug number like it said I would ... :S Any idea?
<mok0> gouki: You submitted to Debian?
<gouki> mok0, yes, using reportbug.
<mok0> gouki: how long ago? BTS can be slow
<gouki> mok0, I would say 12 hours now, or close to that.
<mok0> gouki: did you search for it on bugs.debian.org?
<gouki> mok0, yes, no luck there either.
<mok0> gouki: did you use reportbugs from an ubuntu system?
<gouki> mok0, yes, but I changed the configuration to point to Debian BTS
<mok0> gouki: that's what I was getting at :-)
<gouki> mok0, heheh
<mok0> gouki: does your mail account use a grey-listing filter?
<DktrKranz> gouki, did you receive a copy of your bug report? reportbug should CC your address
<gouki> mok0, good idea! :P
<gouki> DktrKranz, I did receive a copy yes.
<mok0> But that would be a copy from your own mail server...
<mok0> DktrKranz: but he didn't get a reply from the BTS
<DktrKranz> sure, but I usually see server settings are misconfigured, so no mail in CC too
<Hobbsee> mok0: did you change the smtp settings on it?
<mok0> Hobbsee: errr? on what?
<mok0> Hobbsee: you need to ask gouki
<Hobbsee> oh, gouki, sorry.
 * gouki is looking at the junk folder, to see if it's there. BRB
<Hobbsee> mok0: you're the same colour on my system, and similar length names...
<mok0> Hobbsee: OK, I did change SMTP server on thunderbird this morning, but how can you tell?
<Hobbsee> mok0: no, i meant in the conf for reportbug.
<Hobbsee> mok0: it uses a conf that works for people using an @ubuntu.com email address - or at least, did when I last touched it.
 * mok0 emerges on other side of confusion
<gouki> Hobbsee, no, I didn't change SMTP settings, but I got a copy of the message I sent, so I believe the email was delivered.
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<gouki> The bug number reply, however, I did not receive. I'm checking the spam folder, recommended by mok0. Might be in there.
<mok0> Hobbsee: In .reportbugs, my smtp-host is set at bugs.debian.org
<mok0> gouki: we'll just use the Socratic method until you work it out :-)
<gouki> mok0, hehe! Seems to be working alright so far :P
<mok0> gouki: did you submit the bug report to the wnpp package?
<gouki> mok0, yes.
<mok0> gouki: what is the topic of your ITP?
<gouki> mok0, ITP: banihstypos -- A simple game to practice typing faster
<directhex> there is only one typing tutor game worth playing
<gouki> directhex, that's your opinion.
<mok0> It's called "terminal" ;-)
<directhex> mok0, nope, but it's the only one with zombies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Typing_of_the_Dead
<DktrKranz> porthose, was it you who asked me to merge slidentd?
<mok0> Heh, someone wants to package mother
<mok0> "an object relational mapper with strong introspection"... that's my mom rigth there...
<gouki> LOL
<mok0> gouki: I don't see your package though... did you make a tyop when specifying the smtp host?
<gouki> mok0, but would I receive a copy of the email if the SMTP host was wrong?
<mok0> gouki: because your local mail server would know how to return a CC to you, but then it would fail sending the original message
<mok0> gouki: ... and it would send a report back to you from "mailer-daemon" or something
<gouki> mok0, let me check my reportbug configuration file.
<azeem> hi mok0
<mok0> azeem: hi
<azeem> mok0: what are your plans with qutemol?
<mok0> azeem: I have gotten it to work on intrepid
<mok0> azeem: it's in my PPA
<azeem> I saw
<azeem> too late for doing the porting effort myself, though
<mok0> azeem: I am not sure about the status of the program... maintenance-wise
<porthose> DktrKranz: yes, I haven't done anything  yet, life has been getting in the way lately
<azeem> mok0: are you interested in maintaining it in Debian?
<azeem> mok0: also, I think the vcg stuff needs to be sorted out
<DktrKranz> porthose, no problem. just to make sure to avoid managing it myself, thanks ;)
<mok0> azeem: It depends whether upstream will keep maintaining it
<mok0> azeem: ... and I am not sure about that
<mok0> azeem: qutemol only uses a fraction of the vcg stuff
<azeem> yeah
<azeem> though meshlab also needs it, but they seem to just copy things over when doing a release
<DktrKranz> BBL
<mok0> azeem: what are your thoughts?
<mok0> azeem: their releases are somewhat a mess
<azeem> mok0: I'd prefer to lobby upstream into doing vcg releases, or at least trying to
<azeem> yeah
<azeem> mok0: I found a 5.0.1 release or so on the nano-engineer website
<mok0> azeem: are YOU interested in maintaining the package in Debian?
<azeem> mok0: I'm certainly interested in having it in Debian
<mok0> azeem: I suppose you think that vcg should be packaged separately
<azeem> well, it would be best I think
<azeem> but if upstream is really uncooperative, it's better to have it in the qutemol tarball than not having qutemol at all
<mok0> azeem: I think it depends on how many other packages would use it
<azeem> probably only meshlab for the time being
<azeem> their community-building efforts seem to not very great
<azeem> +be
<mok0> azeem: no :-)
<mok0> azeem: I've emailed them some time ago, never received an answer...
<azeem> hrm
<mok0> azeem: could try again
<azeem> they were quite responsive earlier this year when people packaged meshlab
<gouki> mok0, the SMTP was wrong (it was set to a Ubuntu SMTP only accepting from @ubuntu, like Hobbsee said). Changing to my own server now.
<azeem> mok0: I'd like to have qutemol maintained by the Debichem team; do you want to join there and group-maintain it?
<mok0> azeem: ah ok sounds good
<mok0> azeem: sure. I am in the science team and in the med-team, but debichem is something else?
<azeem> well, that's all rather a mess right now
<mok0> azeem: hehe
<ScottK> gouki: bugs.debian.org was down for some time yesterday.  Dunno if that relates.
<azeem> debichem mostly does chemistry, med mostly does biochemistry, and debian-science does everything else, sometimes overlapping
<gouki> ScottK, I sent around 1AM UTC.
<azeem> mok0: debichem uses a svn repo, is that a problem for you?
<ScottK> IIRC that's when it was down.
<mok0> azeem: as long as it gets done, I guess that's the most important thing. Is debichem using SVN/GIT/CVS/BZR ??
<mok0> ah
<mok0> azeem: no
<azeem> there's #debichem on this network btw, we could continue discussin it over there
<mok0> azeem: although I wish the teams would converge on SOMETHINNG
<mok0> azeem: 1 min
<mok0> azeem: I'm over there now
<\sh> whois bobby R. ward?
<emgent> evening
<nhandler> Good morning emgent
<RainCT> Hey
<nhandler> Hey RainCT
 * RainCT tries to remember which packages he was asked to review yesterday
<persia> RainCT, Just do them all :)
<handschuh> qq: can I have 2 Hompage-Fields in debian/control (one under Source and one unter Package)?
<nhandler> handschuh: Unless they are different, I would just put it under Source (if it applies to all of the packages)
<RainCT> persia: you could do some, too :)
<handschuh> nhandler: thanks again!
<nhandler> You're welcome handschuh
<persia> RainCT, Yeah.  I probably ought :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<leonel> are the  merges for jaunty open ???
<persia> leonel, Yes, although it's early enough in the cycle we're not sniping much.  If you've run out of your own, UEHS is always a good palce to look for upgrades.
<leonel> persia: UEHS ??
<leonel> me goes google ..
<gouki> porthose, RainCT: As requested, I have uploaded the package to my PPA. Should I add a link in the REVUDays wiki or REVU comment?
<persia> leonel, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/
<leonel> persia: found it :)
<DktrKranz> gouki, AFAIK, Jaunty PPAs are CHROOTWAIT now, so you could receive failures
<persia> leonel, I'd recommend starting with the packages we *know* to be out of date.  Those either need updates, or some reason why they shouldn't be updated, or a recommendation to drop them from Ubuntu.
<persia> 90% of the time, it's an update.
<gouki> DktrKranz, thank you for the heads up.
<leonel> thanks  persia
<RainCT> gouki: yes, please do so (if it builds) :)
<gouki> RainCT, sure thing.
<gouki> RainCT, and you meant the Wiki or REVU comment?
<RainCT> gouki: wiki
<gouki> OK
<RainCT> Uhm.. Are new package uploads not send to ubuntu-motu@ anymore or is it just that I'm deleting them without noticing it? :P
<nhandler> RainCT: Were they ever sent to ubuntu-motu? I thought they were always on the XXX-changes mailing lists
<persia> Whenever an Ubuntu developer receives a notification that Soyuz has accepted a new package into NEW, they are expected to forward it to ubuntu-motu@ to advise the rest of us that we now have to maintain the package.
<persia> Often people s/NEW/REVU/ when forwarding when packages are pushed from REVU.
<persia> This is essential to ensure that 1) we have the opportunity to review/discuss new packages that we're being asked to maintain, and 2) that the package review process remain implementation independent to allow for experimentation with processes towards general improvement.
<persia> (this doesn't mean that REVU isn't still the recommended method, just that it's not nice to tell people they can't do anything else if they *really* want).
 * RainCT finishes writing a quick & ugly howto on how to write "real" manpages.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/RoffManpage
<mok0> RainCT: Ever look into asciidoc?
<RainCT> mok0: Why should I? troff (or nroff or groof or whatever it's called! :P) is easy enough, and doesn't need to be "compiled" nor anything
<RainCT> (uhm.. looks nice, though :))
<sebner> RainCT: your wiki site is great. "real" manpage ftw!
<mok0> RainCT: It could be easier for other packagers
<RainCT> mok0: write a howto then ;)   (I wrote one for POD time ago, btw, which is the easiest format I've seen so far)
<mok0> RainCT: But I like your template... But maybe "Joe Hacker" should be "Joe Sixpack" :-P
<RainCT> heh
 * persia recommends the well exercised J. Random Hacker
 * mok0 seems to remember a prime minister "Jim Hacker"...
 * DktrKranz suggests "Steve A. B@llmer"
<mok0> "Yes, Prime Minister" anyone?
<RainCT> DktrKranz: argh! are you sure we want such stuff in the repos?
 * sebner winks DktrKranz 
<DktrKranz> RainCT, an incentive to change who did merges!
<mok0> What stuff?
<RainCT> mok0: written by the name DktrKranz said *g*
<mok0> Ah. Time to go home :-(
<slytherin> mok0: yes, my father liked that series a lot. :-)
<sebner> Steve Gates!? xD
<mok0> slytherin: I just purchased the DVDs for the first season. Pure gold
<slytherin> I am planning to purchase it sometime next month.
<DktrKranz> sebner, their child ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: female? :P
<mok0> slytherin: go for it, highly recommended
<DktrKranz> sebner, don't even think about her
 * sebner hides
<slytherin> mok0: wasn't it "Yes Minister" before it became "Yes, Prime Minister"?
<jpds> slytherin: It was, then the guy became Prime.
<slytherin> :-)
<mok0> Yep, they needed someone stupid that they could control :-)
<mok0> ... or so they thought
<DktrKranz> democracy is weird
<mok0> DktrKranz: any better ideas?
<bddebian> Optimus Prime?
<DktrKranz> Thanks Debian
<mok0> errr Master of the Universe?
<mok0> Any git gurus around?
<DktrKranz> mok0, some times ago I used it quite well
<DktrKranz> but I'm not up-to-date with recent git
<mok0> DktrKranz: Just wondering how I can avoid a merge of a new upstream screwing up the new source files
<mok0> DktrKranz: It kinda tries to merge the old and new source files, but I only want it to merge in the debian/ dire
<DktrKranz> you can specify which files to merge
<DktrKranz> as much as bzr does
<DktrKranz> I used cogito do to that, but new UI should do the same
<mok0> DktrKranz: I just did git-merge upstream
<DktrKranz> gic
<DktrKranz> git-commit should do the trick
<mok0> DktrKranz: It writes that the given files "need merge"
<DktrKranz> mh...
 * DktrKranz needs to install new git, then
<mok0> DktrKranz: ... and they have the >>>>  ==== <<<<< stanza in them
<DktrKranz> did you solve conflicts?
<mok0> DktrKranz: I think git now implements the stuff that cogito used to add
<mok0> DktrKranz: I don't want to solve conflicts, I want the new files to override the old ones
<mok0> DktrKranz: So when I do a git diff upstream, I only see the debian/
<iulian> Hmm, why do you keep the debian/ directory in the upstream branch?
<DktrKranz> mok0, git-pull --rebase ?
<mok0> iulian: I don't
<DktrKranz> rebasing is dangerous, though
<mok0> iulian: I keep debian/ in the ubuntu branch, which is branched off upstream sometime in the past
<jpds> iulian: It should be maintained seperatly (at least, that's how I prefer it).
<mok0> jpds: I don't think you can do that in git
<iulian> I do maintain a couple of packages in git.debian.org and I do have two branches, one which contains the upstream source code and the other one the debian directory.
<mok0> iulian: how can you only have debian/
<mok0> ?
<mok0> iulian: the other one ADDS debian/ right?
<iulian> mok0: Ahh, I don't. I have the debian/ and the source code in a separate branch.
<mok0> iulian: that's what I have
<iulian> The upstream branch contains only the source code.
<mok0> iulian: I have committed the new upstream release to branch "upstream", and I am trying to merge
<slytherin> anybody from MOTU SRU around?
<iulian> mok0: And git checkout master && git merge upstream doesn't work?
<huats> ScottK: are you around ?
<mok0> iulian: at the moment I am stuck because it keeps asking me to merge
<DktrKranz> slytherin, yes
<iulian> mok0: I usually git add the new upstream release to the upstream branch and from there I merge it with master.
<slytherin> DktrKranz: can you please evaluate bug 294753.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294753 in imagej "ImageJ chooses wrong java home" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294753
<iulian> mok0: Or whatever your 'master' branch is called.
<iulian> mok0: Ah, ubuntu in this case.
<huats> persia: are you around ?
<mok0> iulian: that is exactly what I am attempting to do
<mok0> iulian: right now it tells me "You are in the middle of a conflicted merge"
<slytherin> huats: why exactly are you searching persia for?
<huats> slytherin: hey
<mok0> iulian: but the merge I was attempting was in another branch that I deleted
<iulian> Hmm
 * mok0 cries wuuaaaahhh
 * persia suspects it has something to do with mentoring
<huats> I am searching to talk with him regarding his last mail on the motu/non motu mentoring  thread....
<huats> persia: well guessed :)
<DktrKranz> slytherin, what if /etc/alternatives/java is different from OpenJDK, any issues?
<huats> persia: how are you ?
<persia> huats, Well enough.  What's your thoughts on the matter?
<slytherin> DktrKranz: I tried with openjdk and GCJ, the proposed solution works fine. I will check with Sun JDK. I am also going to forward the bug to Debian before processing it as SRU candidate.
<iulian> mok0: You only have two branches: 'ubuntu' and 'upstream' now?
<mok0> iulian: ah, git reset
<huats> persia: I think there is something unclear there :)
<huats> persia: I am very surprised of the current definition of U-U-C
<DktrKranz> slytherin, sounds safe enough, it was already fixed in Jaunty?
<persia> huats, What's surprising about it?
<iulian> mok0: Does that fix it?
<mok0> iulian: yes, I have a branch "upstream" with the latest upstream version committed
<slytherin> DktrKranz: it is not. That is why I said I will forward it to Debian. I just wanted someone from motu-sru to comment if it is worth it.
<mok0> iulian: git reset got me out of the trap
<huats> persia: Regarding how to become uuc : "through participation in the development community and interaction with Ubuntu Developers"
<mok0> iulian: now the repo is in the state I expect
<DktrKranz> slytherin, it's worth a SRU upload
<iulian> mok0: Cool.
<persia> huats, Yes.
<DktrKranz> but please document the procedure in a TEST CASE
<huats> which clearly insists on the technical development part
<mok0> iulian: ok, I make a branch off upstream called "test"
<persia> huats, Hrm?  How?
<DktrKranz> so everybody can easily test things, because someone could not be comfortable with java packages
<huats> persia: (anyway I will reply to the list, since I was away all day long)
<mok0> iulian: oops thats wrong
<persia> huats, I'm not understanding what you're saying.
<huats> persia: hum
<huats> :)
<huats> persia: I will answer to the list :)
<iulian> mok0: What would you like to do now?
<huats> so that everybody will be able to participate :)
<persia> huats, The threshold for UUC is essentially that for Ubuntu Membership.  It's a result of how the CC asked MC to administer membership grants when MC asked to decouple this from MOTU.
<mok0> iulian: merge the OLD ubuntu branch (old code + debian/) into the NEW upstream branch (w/o debian/)
<bmm> Anybody willing to comment on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink , I'm online to respond
<persia> huats, MC only accepts candidates from those who choose to interact with the development community,and contribute through activities of value to the development community.  These aren't limited to development, but also include developer documentation, developer training, etc.
<huats> but from my point of view, u-u-c is a step toward motuship, granted after some technical development....
<huats> persia: that is the definition of membership
<huats> from MY understanding, the uuc is limited to development...
<persia> It's certainly a common step towards MOTUship, but not a required step.
<huats> sure it is not required
<persia> Also, it's about interaction with the development community, not development directly, although most of what the development community does is development, so there's usually some development.
<persia> The big difference is that I don't look at all the bugs the user closed in changelogs and review the debdiffs
<persia> (well, honestly, I usually only look at 15-20 patches)
<mok0> iulian: I got some conflicts doing "git-merge upstream"
<huats> sure
<iulian> mok0: If you have the "upstream" branch with the latest version committed and want to merge with the "ubuntu" branch, you can checkout the "ubuntu" branch and merge "upstream"
<persia> I'm not sure about the specific criteria for other MC members, but it's probably similar.
<mok0> iulian: that's what I have done
<mok0> iulian: I got some conflicts
<iulian> mok0: So, you'll have the new version committed to the ubuntu branch without the debian/ directory.
<iulian> mok0: Bleah
<mok0> iulian: ys
<mok0> yes
<iulian> What kind of conflicts?
<mok0> iulian: CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in vcg/vcg/complex/trimesh/append.h
<iulian> mok0: This is the the source code, right?
<mok0> iulian: why would I get a conflict in a file that's based off the old version? No edits by me
<mok0> iulian: yes, source coded
<iulian> mok0: Hmm, try to remove the current upstream version from the ubuntu branch, but not the debian/ dir and then try to merge.
<huats> persia: from my understanding (of a non MC member of course), uuc is granted for develpment activities. If someone has done quite some documentation stuffs (by instance), and want to get the membership it is handled by the CC (or the various boards right now)
<mok0> iulian: ok sounds like a good idea
<mok0> iulian: ah, it's too smart to get fooled like that
<iulian> Heh, thought so.
<huats> and I tend to think I am not the only one with that opinion since, regarding all the uuc applications are development oriented... (from my point of view again)
<nhandler> huats: I think most other people are under that impression as well. I know of several people who were very active with documentation. They applied for membership through the regional councils.
<iulian> mok0: Did you push it somewhere?
<mok0> iulian: and now it thinks I have deleted all the files
<persia> huats, Depends on the class of documentation.  Someone who cleaned up the Packaging Guide while spending time here would probably be better known to developers, while someone who was working with the docteam would be better known there (and the docteam would probably recommend them to an RMB).
<mok0> iulian: no I am working off a temporary branch
<huats> persia: sure
<mok0> iulian: hopefully I can get back somehow :-)
<persia> huats, Anyway, that's just an example.  The point being that what's checked is a sustained and significant set of contributions to Ubuntu.  This doesn't mean that someone's technical abilities are reviewed.
<iulian> mok0: You didn't commit, right?
<huats> persia: I understand your point
<persia> The key requirement for application for UUC vs. other sorts of Membership is really the involvement with the development community, as the entire community is large enough that often we know such candidates better than the RMBs.
<mok0> iulian: no no
<mok0> iulian: I wont commit until I've got what I want
<huats> exactly
<iulian> mok0: Try git config branch.ubuntu.merge refs/heads/ubuntu
<iulian> mok0: Then git checkout ubuntu && git merge upstream
<mok0> iulian: what will that do?
<slytherin> is it just me or are there others who many a times find that package changelogs in Debian are less verbose?
<iulian> mok0: Please paste the .git/config file to a pastebin.
<persia> huats, So, I have deep confidence that any UUC knows who is who, and how to interact with developers.  I'm not necessarily confident as to whether they know how to develop (if I was, I'd rather have them as MOTU).
<huats> I understand your point
<mok0> iulian: http://pastebin.com/f32ecd428
<persia> huats, So, that aside, what do you think about the suggestion of centralising teaching the basics?  Do you guys still impose the "cannot mentor someone with the same native language" rule?
<iulian> mok0: Ah, right, you didn't push it to a remote branch.
<mok0> iulian: no
<mok0> iulian: this is all for my own pleasure :-P
<huats> persia: the thing is that (from my point of view) a uuc should know 'enough' to help a new contributor to start...
<huats> and it is such a good experience for the uuc to help someone...
<persia> Sure, and most UUC do know enough to start.  Do you think it's better that they not do it here?
<mok0> iulian: got it now
<iulian> mok0: What did you do?
<thiagoss> I've been trying to put a postinstall script into my .deb, so the user can configurate some stuff after installing my program. I've read through the maintainer guide, but I can't understand how to do it. Could someone help me?
<mok0> iulian: I cheated :-) I think you need to resolve the conflicts, but I just extracted the new tarball on top of the directory, and did "git add" to the conflicting files
<huats> persia: the 'not same native language" is a rule that we try to push
<persia> thiagoss, Short answer, add debian/$(package).postinst
<mok0> iulian: then I did "git commit -a" and when I now do a diff to "upstream" I only see files in debian/
<thiagoss> persia, as simple as that?
<thiagoss> great! I've added postinst only =P
<persia> thiagoss, Well, it depends on how your debian/rules is constructed, but usually.  It's worth reading http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts to make sure you get it right though.
<huats> persia: there have been lots of discussions to try to creates mote links between mentoring and classrooms
<persia> Right, which is a good thing.
<iulian> mok0: I've never played with git locally.
<huats> but nothing has really happened yet
<huats> it is something that I have planned to talk to with james_w at the UDS
<iulian> mok0: I also couldn't have the source code + the debian/ in a branch and in another only the source code.
<mok0> iulian: It's no different I think
<iulian> mok0: I've done this remotely and it worked very well.
<mok0> iulian: you can if the debian/ one is branched from the source code one
<persia> huats, My primary interests on this topic are 1) getting more developers, 2) making sure developers get good advice, and 3) avoiding duplication of effort.
<mok0> iulian: but you need to keep those two branches separate, and only merge from "upstream" -> "debian"
<huats> persia: I can clearly see your points :)
<persia> huats, I certainly don't mean to say that the work being done isn't valuable, only that I think it's worth revisiting what is expected from a mentor before we decide to set any criteria for anything.
<iulian> mok0: I've done that adding the source code to both branches and then the debian/ to the master branch.
<mok0> iulian: I was confused because to the conflicts.
<huats> and I completly agree with you on the 3 points
<persia> huats, To me, the first step is about understanding how we work, and is essentially a social thing.  The second step is again understanding how the developer is planning to work and be established, and is again a social thing.
<huats> persia: I am really surprised by the mentor who has done the 'error'
<mok0> iulian: ah, ok, but I don't think you need two copies of the sources
<iulian> mok0: I usually import the new upstream version to the 'upstream' branch and then merge it with master.
<persia> I'd like to see more links between mentoring and classroom, as I think they are complimentary, but I really think most of the mentoring role is social rather than technical.
<iulian> mok0: To have the same uptream version in both branches.
<mok0> iulian: I was confused by the conflicts. Turns out it was some kind of CVS added stuff ($Log:$
<persia> Yeah, that specific mentor made a mistake, and it's unfortunate, but it's likely happened before (whether formally or not), and will likely happen again.  The goal is just to have a process that doesn't encourage it.
<iulian> mok0: Ahh, cvs...
<mok0> iulian: I think you only need one copy of the sources, in one branch, then the other branch only adds debian/
<huats> persia: absolutly
<mok0> iulian: it should merge transparently
<huats> persia: it is unfortunate
<huats> and the goal is to avoid that...
<huats> there is already a kind of mentoring program
<iulian> mok0: Well, that's not the way I work.
<huats> which is a good start
<mok0> iulian: I guess the CVS modification of the source code means that the new version is not simply based on the old one
<mok0> iulian: anyway, thanks for your help and the discussion!
<iulian> mok0: Don't mention it.
<thiagoss> persia, thanks! that worked perfectly!
<iulian> I'm always available to talk about git.
<persia> huats, Well, I think you're doing yourself a disservice to say "a kind of mentoring program".  It is one.  You guys just have to find a way to define it that's complementary to other recruitment and training efforts, which will surely come in time.  Now that the backlog is cleared, I'm guessing there's a bit more time to concentrate on infrastructure and process.
<persia> thiagoss, Don't forget that if you're using debhelper, you probably want #DEBHELPER# in your script :)
<huats> I was saying 'a kind' since it is not compulsery, and that only the big lines are defined...
<huats> but I think many things are said !
<gouki> Want to package this: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/l.ertl/swiggle/ but no mention of the license. No license = no package, right?
<persia> heh.
<huats> :)
<iulian> gouki: Mail upstream and ask to provide a license to the package.
<joaopinto> gouki, no license = contact the author to add an open source license :)
<persia> Personally, I'm happy it's not compulsary, as I think there are lots of different types of people, but as you manage it, you'll surely either find a process that works, or determine that you need some other structure.
<huats> persia: what about having a session at the UDS on that topic ?
<gouki> iulian, joaopinto - no answer from upstream :S
<huats> persia: I think it is important enough to have one
<iulian> gouki: That's bad...
<huats> to talk of a possible infrastructure...
<persia> huats, We could, but I'm not sure the number of interested parties are large enough, especially as only a minority of MOTU make it to UDS each year.
<huats> persia: sure
<persia> I think we'd do better to discuss it on the ML, and if it's still not clear at UDS (remember, that's almost at Alpha 2 this cycle), maybe have a hallway/evening conversation.
<huats> persia: but, by instance, a meeting can be a point where we can start to write down a few ideas to discuss later on the ML
<huats> sounds good to me
 * persia would rather do it the other way : meeting -> ML sounds like "let's put this off a month"
<huats> (I mean your proposal sounds good to me)
<huats> :)
<persia> Well, my proposal for getting a proposal :)  I suspect you've issues with my actual proposal, but that's why we have a ML :)
 * gouki would like to go to a UDS :(
<persia> gouki, Well, this one is kinda short notice.  What are you doing in May?  There's likely to be one then, and maybe you can schedule some free time to make it.
<persia> Anyone's welcome to come to UDS (although it is sometimes pricey).
<gouki> persia, yeah, that's the problem. I could find some time to go, but traveling and all the rest make it pretty pricey (at least for now).
<persia> gouki, Yep.  Maybe there will be one nearer to you one of these cycles.
<directhex> a UDS in oxford would be convenient, kkthx
<iulian> Indeed
<persia> I think there was one in britain some years back.  Could happen again.
<ScottK> huats: Around now.
<gouki> One in Spain would be awesome! I would get to leave my country, by car :)
<huats> hey ScottK
<sebner> ScottK: if interested, my revu comments will be ready in ~1 hour
<iulian> persia: That would be great. The next UDS will be in Europe, am I right?
<huats> I have been talking with persia regarding your email on the mentoring issue
<ScottK> iulian: That's the general pattern.
<huats> (btw I have accepted your email on the list)
<ScottK> huats: I think persia's mail on the topic is a step in a good direction.
<huats> I will answer on the list directly (with my mentoring receptionist hat on :))
<huats> ScottK: as I said (or at least, as I act) I am clearly in favor of refining the mentoring processes
<huats> to go to a better schema
<ScottK> OK.
<webtech_m33> Scottk: any luck with a backport of clamav 0.94.1 for hardy?
<ScottK> webtech_m33: Still waiting for it to get uploaded to Debian.
<ScottK> It was supposed to be uploaded over the weekend, but it didn't get done.
<huats> ScottK: I think, the main issue here, might be the definition of uuc
<ScottK> huats: I think persia's mail is a good basis for this.
<ScottK> huats: UUC is an Ubuntu Member who got membership through the MC.  That's it.
<webtech_m33> Scottk: is there a place i can download it from, before it gets upload to debian - ubuntu
<ScottK> webtech_m33: Not really.  The 0.94.1RC that's in Intrepid is not very different from the final.
<huats> ScottK: since from my point of view (and many people) it is the way to get ubuntu membershio through development involvment, with of course the samed standard than for the motuship
<persia> ScottK, Well, in fairness, there is a high correlation between achieving membership through UUC and having done some package maintenance.
<huats> soryy with a different standard I mean...
<ScottK> persia: True, but there is no standard of knowledge or experience required.
<huats> (lower requirements)
<persia> huats, The difference in standard is precisely the technical review.
<ScottK> Exactly.
<persia> ScottK, Absolutely.
<a|wen> any reason why debian would want to not use dh_icons while we want to? ... i'm doing a merge where this is the only ubuntu-specific change
<huats> the whole question might be : no technical review at all, or a lower review to get uuc ?
<ScottK> a|wen: Because the Debian Menu system doesn't use it, so they might view it as irrelevant.
<persia> a|wen, Depends on the maintainer.  Check the BTS : there ought already be a patch waiting for the maintainer to review.
<persia> huats, At least I don't perform any technical review.  I check IRC logs, wiki work, other things linked from the wiki page, loose volume of uploads, bug discussions, etc.
<ScottK> huats: No technical review at all.  Development experience gets discussed, but that's only what makes MC an appropriate venue to consider the membership application.
<ScottK> No one has ever not been made a UUC due to technical issues.
<huats> ScottK: but due to development involvement
<a|wen> persia, ScottK: no bug report ... and the last changelog entry (from debian) contains "add a commented call to dh_icons"
<persia> And that won't happen : membership is specifically a recognition of social interaction.
<ScottK> huats: Involvement yes, but no particular technical knowledge needed.
<persia> a|wen, That sounds intentional then.  Just uncomment it, as the Ubuntu package won't install cleanly without either reloading the session, calling dh_icons, or the user taking manual action.
<ScottK> webtech_m33: They are actually working on it as we speak (in Debian).
<a|wen> persia: i'll keep the change then, thx
<huats> ScottK:  and do you think a particular knowledge is needed for mentoring in the junior program ? (that is a question not a blaming way :))
<slytherin> a|wen: you may also want to check what is the debhelper versing being used. dh_cions is available in debhelper > 5.0.51.
<huats> honestly I think that someone who has acheived the junior program in the mentoring process... and thus who become a uuc, can explain the basics...
<persia> a|wen, Specifically, both Ubuntu and Kubuntu rely on the iconcache to display icons in the menus, etc.  Debian does for certain types of GNOME and KDE desktop environments, but that's certainly not as much the default for Debian as it is for Ubuntu.
 * persia isn't sure if Xubuntu relies on the XDG iconcache
<ScottK> huats: I'd start with knowing enough to not recommend novice developers upgrade to Jaunty right now.
<a|wen> slytherin: debhelper >= 5.0.51 is specified in controls
<persia> huats, I don't disagree that most of them could, but I think it's a waste of their time to do it individually and privately.
<huats> ScottK: I am very very surprised by that ....
<persia> Ubuntu is what it is in large part because of the team collaboration.  We should use and reinforce that.
<huats> persia: I see your point clearly
<ScottK> huats: As persia has suggested redefining the role as a social role, I think it's reasonable for UUC to do that.
<slytherin> a|wen: good then. I believe that diff has to be maintained. I remember same experience where Debian maintainer refused to adopt the change.
<huats> ScottK: I will contact the mentor you mentioned to have his side of the story
<persia> Note that I *don't* mean to exclude UUC from contributing to training : it's fun, and the best way to learn is to teach, I just think it ought be collboartive and separate from mentoring.
<huats> ScottK: since I am very surprised by someone who is around for such a long time...
<a|wen> slytherin: sadly, yes ... more "fun" for the mergers :/
<ScottK> huats: That's good.  As I said in my mail to the list, I only have one side of the story.
<slytherin> I believe that mentoring discussions should not happen in private. Rather mentors should encourage participation on this channel.
<huats> ScottK: I know you were not blaming YET :)
<huats> ;)
<ScottK> huats: Regardless of the specifcs in this case, I think the way things have been working is not the best.
<ScottK> slytherin: +1
<Milyardo> :)
<huats> From my point of view, a mentor is someone you can contact at the beginning or for his experiences
<huats> in order to know who to contact
<huats> by instance on a spedific problem
<persia> RIght.
<huats> but of course the usage of this channel and other team interactions medium is more than encouraged....
<ScottK> huats: Historically the pattern in the mentoring program has been the opposite.
<ScottK> It's one of my primary objections to it.
<persia> The most common thing I said to any of my mentees was "Ask me that on #ubuntu-motu".  Some of them were reluctant to do so, but all are typically present here now, and active, which I think is a positive thing.
<persia> Well, except for one who left Ubuntu, but he was here for a whlie in the meantime.
<ssaboum> personnaly i uploaded packages, and don't actually know what to do now :-) but that's just me i guess
<huats> ScottK: this is something that we need to emphasize (the usage of teams tools)
<persia> ssaboum, It's precisely developers like yourself that make me happy that the mentoring program isn't mandatory.
<persia> ssaboum, If you're bored, try tackling UEHS
<ssaboum> why is that :-), (although i'm glad lol )
<slytherin> ssaboum: you can find lot of stuff to do at qa.ubuntuwire.com
<ssaboum> thanks :-)
<persia> ssaboum, Because some people need an introduction to our culture, and others (like yourself) don't.  I prefer to cater to both sorts.
<ssaboum> i get it
 * slytherin just filed "move to universe bug of the day" :-)
<persia> slytherin, How many days left?
<a|wen> if the merges is a bump to a new upstream revision as well, is it enough to include the two debdiffs?
<slytherin> persia: No idea. There are still about 10 packages. Some need sync before move to universe.
<persia> a|wen, Could you give a specific example?
<persia> slytherin, Only 10 left?  Nice work!
<a|wen> persia: pkg knutclient ... we have 0.9.3 and 0.9.4 is merged in
<persia> a|wen, Debian has 0.9.4?
<slytherin> persia: Well, if more packages switch to openjdk after the lenny is released and move form contrib to main, there will be still lot of work to do.
<a|wen> persia: yes
<persia> a|wen, Just a debdiff against Debian will be fine.  Your sponsor can use that to evaluate it.
<slytherin> a|wen: just a debdiff against Debian.
<a|wen> persia, slytherin: thx
<slytherin> persia: I have added 'killall sun-java5-*' to our roadmap. I will see what packages in jaunty currently have build/runtime dependency on sun-java5*
 * persia heads off happily to celebrate the news
<slytherin> what news?
 * slytherin heads to bed.
<persia> The news that we get to drop yet another binary package from multiverse.
<mehdid> Hello all,
<mehdid> I have some questions/remark about maintaining packages in ubuntu.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone have a look at Bug #284910. It seems that libtool version is the root cause of the problem, but I'm a bit stuck
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284910 in libtool "libgdal1-1.5.0 can not recompiled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284910
<fabrice_sp> Hi mehdid: just ask
<Yasumoto> Where can I find the latest Debian version of a package? (and hopefully download it?)
<mehdid> I maintain some packages in Debian and noticed that the Â«whyÂ» package is affected by a serious bug in intrepid, fixed in debian lenny
<RainCT> Yasumoto: http://packages.debian.org
<mehdid> I don't know exactly how you guys work in Ubuntu but I would like to give some help ... at least for my packages
<mehdid> So, what can I do ? and how ?
<RainCT> mehdid: how serious is that bug?
<mehdid> well why uses a cpulimit like program ... when proving a program, why uses cpulimit to fix a time limit
<mehdid> and in 2.13-1 it uses a wrong syntax
<Yasumoto> RainCT: that would make sense. Thanks :)
<nellery> in Jaunty it is already 2.13-2
<RainCT> mehdid: If the package is in Debian unstable and Ubuntu hasn't modified it, the new version will be atuomatically copied into the current Ubuntu development version, which right now is Jaunty (this is done for some months, until DebianImportFreeze; after that, syncs can be requested manually: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess)
<mehdid> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=498485
<ubottu> Debian bug 498485 in why "why: calls cpulimit with wrong arguments" [Normal,Closed]
<nellery> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/why
<mehdid> ok and what's about intrepid ?
<RainCT> mehdid: and if the problem is important enough that it should be fixed in Intrepid then you can request a Stable Release Update for it (after the fix is in the development release) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mehdid> ok
<RainCT> iulian: lintian complains about your description (possible-unindented-list-in-extended-description)
<thiagoss> Can someone give me some help with debconf? I've read the tutorial in debconf but some things don't work.
<RainCT> iulian: anyway, uploaded :)
<huats> persia: and ScottK I need to leave right now
<huats> but I will continue to answer your proposal persia later tonight :)
<gouki> PPA seems to be working OK now.
<gouki> Can I send an ITP manually, without using reportbug?
<RainCT> gouki: yep, just send a mail to submit@bugs.debian.org and start the mail with "Package: wnpp" and "Severity: wishlist" (each on a list).
<RainCT> but I think reportbug also send a mail to a ML or something for ITPs
<ScottK> gouki and RainCT: ITP needs to go to debian-devel too.
<ScottK> There's a specific right way to do it that is hard to get right except through reportbug.
<directhex> dear lintian, please put down the crack pipe
<ssaboum> :-)
<laga> hum
<directhex> grep timestamp /tmp/gdi/libgdiplus-2.0/config.guess
<directhex> timestamp='2008-01-23'
<laga> oops
<directhex> E: libgdiplus source: outdated-autotools-helper-file pixman/config.guess 2003-06-17
<ssaboum> nice, clear and so gentle
<RainCT> ScottK: uhm.. I've never done this *g*
<directhex> oh, hang on... wrong file.....
<gouki> Any idea how I can ask reportbug to use a already written bug file then? Nothing on the manual.
<ScottK> gouki: It'll eventually open up the draft bug in $EDITOR.  You can copy/paste then.
<gouki> ScottK, OK. Thanks.,
<fabrice_sp> Hi again. For package cantlr, I made a change to fix bug #290164 , that is not yet in Debian (Debian bug #504050). Should I wait for Debian to integrate it to request the sync or do the merge with the actual Debian version?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290164 in antlr "[sru] cantlr package is not installable. Depends on antlr-gcj instead of libantlr-java-gcj" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290164
<ubottu> Debian bug 504050 in cantlr "cantlr: depends on nonexistent antlr-gcj (vs. libantlr-java-gcj)" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/504050
<pochu> fabrice_sp: since it's been opened for a couple of weeks, I'd fix it in Ubuntu and sync later if possible
<fabrice_sp> pochu: ok. I'll fill a merge request, and post my debdiff then. Thanks.
<RainCT> uhm.. bluetooth isn't working anymore here (this is the first time I try on Intrepid) :/
<iulian> RainCT: Thanks, I'll fix it next time.
<Yasumoto> If someone has some time, can you look at this and let me know what else I should do to get this fix in? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomecanvas/+bug/272316 thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272316 in libgnomecanvas "[regression, intrepid] redraw problems, patches from fedora" [Low,Confirmed]
<zul> persia: around?
 * iulian goes to bed.
<iulian> Good night.
<DRebellion> Hey guys! If anybody's looking for something to revu, i've just uploaded monkeystudio for your viewing pleasure: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=monkeystudio . Thanks in advance ;)
<fabrice_sp> When subscribing U-S-u for a sync request, should I leave the bug as New or Confirmed?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: New please
<fabrice_sp> ok And the same for a merge request, with a debdiff?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: no, that can be pretty much any status, triaged would be appropriate I believe
<porthose> DktrKranz: just tested slidentd on jaunty and I get this
<porthose> DktrKranz: 0, 0: ERROR:  UNKOWN-ERROR
<porthose> DktrKranz: when trying to launch it
<bmm> Is the "ask a maximum of once a day" a per package or per person rule??
<RainCT> bmm: the rule is: "don't annoy" ;)
<bmm> RainCT: ah, ok.. I won't :P
<gouki> PPA built for i386 and amd64 .. No luck with lpia so far.
<bmm> Anybody with time left over, there is a new upstream packaged here, ready for any and all comments: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild
<gouki> bmm, bump the compat to 6 instead of 5?
<bmm> gouki: ok
<bmm> gouki: that means debhelper >= 6 and debian/compat=6 right?
<DktrKranz> porthose, it seems not dietlibc-related. issue was from bug 86823
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 86823 in slidentd "Slidentd immediately segfaults" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86823
<gouki> I just meant debian/compat to 6, actually bmm. Sorry for not being more explicit.
<bmm> gouki: np
<RAOF> Although if you bump debian/compat to 6, you'll _also_ want to build-depend on debhelper >= 6.
<bmm> Do I? I have no idea really.
<bmm> I would like to know, I was literally seconds away from pushing return on dput revu...
<RAOF> Because debhelper < 6 obviously won't understand debhelper 6 compatibility :)
<bmm> Ah, right, so both need to be updated then
<crimsun> yes/win 68
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> err, sorry
<RAOF> (man debhelper gives the differences in what is different in each compatibility mode)
<RAOF> crimsun: My, you win a lot :)
<RAOF> Note that you might want to keep the compatibility level at 5; IIRC Hardy only has debhelper 5, so if you want the package to be backportable to the most recent LTS, you can't depend on debhelper >= 6.
<pochu> isn't debhelper backported?
<RAOF> Surely not?  Isn't that pretty much the definition of "break-the-world core functionality"?
<RAOF> No, packages.ubuntu.com says you're right.  Debhelper 7 in hardy-backports.
<bmm> Ah, so debhelper level is not a problem for backports? That's news to me.
<ajmitch> RAOF: it's only bad if it's not backwards-compatible :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: You mean, like introducing new bugs? :)
<ajmitch> that'd never happen
<RAOF> bmm: News to me, too.
<nixternal> noisey in here
<bmm> nixternal: actually pretty informative if you ask me ;)
<nixternal> informative in this channel? with ajmitch and crimsun around? I don't believe it!
<nixternal> THE TRINITIY!
<bmm> So I should just push the debhelper compat to 7, as backports can handle that?
<ajmitch> nixternal: sorry, I was never a member
<nixternal> don't try and get out of it like someone else did
<ajmitch> !nixternal
<ubottu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> damnit, that is still around
 * nixternal tosses a stick at Hobbsee
<pochu> bmm: also bump debhelper compat if you are using new features
<bmm> pochu: I'm not using new features, level 5 even works. But if there is no reason to keep it low, I might as well push it up to 7, right?
<nixternal> bmm: if you plan on backporting it, then no
<RAOF> nixternal: As previously discussed, Hardy has debhelper 7.
<bmm> nixternal: that was the informative part of the channel. Backports contain debhelper 7
<RAOF> nixternal: Backports aren't an issue.
<nixternal> nice, see what you miss when you take a break and work in RL
<ajmitch> nixternal: how could you abandon us?
<RAOF> bmm: I wouldn't bump debhelper compat unless I was actually using the new behaviour/features.  That said, I also wouldn't _object_ to bumping debhelper.
<nixternal> ajmitch: $$$
<ajmitch> sellout
<nixternal> ajmitch: it is Open Source software that is paying me dude...no sellout here :)
 * ajmitch would never be caught working for the Man!
<ajmitch> :)
<nixternal> paying me more than my proprietary days
<ajmitch> oh alright
<ajmitch> sign me up :)
<nixternal> move to chicago dude...gotcha hooked up :)
<ajmitch> hah
 * ajmitch will start walking there tomorrow
<nixternal> need someone to setup a buildd and mirrors for me :)
<ssaboum> 'night everyone
<ajmitch> nixternal: what do you do, anyway?
<rrittenhouse> Does anybody here use Twitux + Ibex?
<bmm> ROAF: ok, I'm going with V6 because of the manpage change thing.
<nixternal> ajmitch: Linux development, platform development, application development.... do some python, some java, some bash, and unfortunately some yum and rpm for the time being
<nixternal> v2 of our appliances will be ubuntu based though
<ajmitch> sounds interesting
<sparr> is this or #ubuntu the appropriate place for questions about problems with packages in ubuntu?
<ScottK> sparr: This channel is about development and packaging stuff.  If you need help with a problem, #ubuntu is the place.
<sparr> well, not so much help as reporting.  i dont expect to be able to fix the problem, but im not sure how to gather the information that i need to file a bug report
<sparr> but thanks, ill ask there
<ScottK> sparr: That sounds like you want #ubuntu-bugs then.
<ScottK> We do have a lot of channels.
<emgent> gouki: ping
<gouki> ember, here.
<gouki> ember, GTG! gouki@ubuntu
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-12
<BrickHaus> awfully quite in here..
<BrickHaus> shhh..  "Masters of the Universe" need their rest too. :D
<tonyyarusso> So who do I bribe to get a backport looked at?  :P
<binarymutant> whats the correct way to do this? XS-Python-Version: >=2.3
<binarymutant> make: python2.4: Command not found, but I followed the guidelines I think, it says XS-Python-Version: >= X.Y in the debian packaging policy
<ScottK> FrankH: To answer your question: Eclipse is a painful package to work with and no one has volunteered to actually do the work to update it.
<ScottK> binarymutant: What python package does your package build-depend on?
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Bug number?
<binarymutant> it depends on python 2.3 or greater
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Bug #293292, which depends on Bug #268602 being done first.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293292 in hardy-backports "Please backport etckeeper 0.18 (or newer)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293292
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268602 in hardy-backports "backport bazaar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268602
<ScottK> binarymutant: Do you have a Debian package of this or are you trying to install something from source/package it yourself?
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Look at the bzr rdepends and consider it needs some testing.  jdong was planning on looking at it.
<binarymutant> ScottK, myself
<ScottK> binarymutant: OK, In addition to the XS-Python-Version: (what you have is correct if you are using python-central) you alse need to have python-all in your build-dep.
<ScottK> It'd be python-all (>=2.3)
<binarymutant> ScottK, instead of python (>=2.3)?
<ScottK> Yes. That just gives you the default version (2.4), not all supported versions (2.4 and 2.5)
<ScottK> err default version = 2.5 (sorry)
<binarymutant> ScottK, ok, but I'm getting this error now Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting. :/
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Is there anything I can do to help things along, not being particular skilled in these things?
<ScottK> binarymutant: Then you need to install python-all
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Talk to jdong.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: will do - good UTC time for that, or e-mail?
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: also, if you know of any people who are good with figuring out segfaults and have some spare time, point them to my latest Planet post - kompozer needs attention beyond my abilities as well.
<ScottK> He's often around here.  He lives in -0500, but he's also a college student so who knows when he'll be awake.
<jdong> heh takes a parent to know sleep schedules of those crazy college kids, huh :)
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: I'd suggest asking in #ubuntu-mozillateam since it's based on Mozilla code.
<ScottK> jdong: Nope.  Mine aren't quite that old yet.  It takes remembering being in college.
<binarymutant> ScottK, thanks :) Will other people that use this .deb have to have python2.4 installed too?
<jdong> tonyyarusso: I spoke with #bzr on Friday and last I followed up they were still getting everything into debian experimental and synced into Jaunty
<tonyyarusso> yeah, it's a bit dead there the last few days - will try again in a bit.
<tonyyarusso> jdong: ah, so probably a low priority for a few weeks yet I take it.
<jdong> at the very least I'd like to have complete bzr, bzr-rebase, bzrtools, bzr-gtk, and bzr-svn
<jdong> if those are all compatible and good to go in Jaunty then I'm all for a backport
<jdong> AFAIK right now that is not the case
<ScottK> binarymutant: It depends a bit on the package.  If it's a python C extension, then it will end up requiring both python versions.  If it's pure Python, it won't.
<binarymutant> Cool thanks for the help ScottK
<tonyyarusso> jdong: all right, well keep me posted and let me know if there's any stupid grunt work.
<jdong> tonyyarusso: will do :)
<FrankH> binarymutant:  ditto. thanx for the info scottk
<jdong> tonyyarusso: kick me by the weekend to follow up if I forget through my tests tomorrow and thursday :)
<tonyyarusso> jdong: all righty
<ScottK> FrankH and binarymutant: You're welcome.
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: The public library in the county I live in uses Ubuntu Hardy on their systems provided for library patrons and Kompozer is in their install.
<ScottK> Thought you'd like to know.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: I would, yes.  Thanks.
<binarymutant> do I need to make an ITP bug in launchpad like debian's BTS?
<toabctl> hi all
<ScottK> binarymutant: Yes.  It's called needs-packaging in Ubuntu.
<binarymutant> ScottK, thanks :)
<ScottK> You're welcome.
 * NCommander yawns
<persia> zul ?
<binarymutant> what should I put in the changelog file for distribution? I've tried jaunty, intrepid, and ubuntu
<ScottK> jaunty
<ScottK> Lintian will complain because it doesn't know about it yet.
<binarymutant> do you compile lintian from source?
<stefanlsd> Does anyone mind giving some advice about a merge - #296648
<ScottK> No.  I just ignore the error until it gets fixed.
<stefanlsd> heh - bug #296648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296648 in jigdo "Please merge jigdo 0.7.3-2 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296648
<binarymutant> thanks again :)
<stefanlsd> Re the comment to close the other bug. It was mentioned that i should put in in the changelog for the merge, but that wasnt my change, and wasnt carried across as an outstanding ubuntu change.
<stefanlsd> it was closed, and we could close the ubuntu bug with it, although im not sure it goes in the changelog - might be confusing just the entry? I could go close the bug manually when package is published. so i guess, should it be in the changelog or not :)
<binarymutant> I've uploaded my package to revu but how long until I see it on the site? It's been a while now :/
<StevenK> Hmmm. ENORAOF
<ajmitch> you need to hunt him down?
<StevenK> No, wanted to ask him a dorky Gnome Do question
 * wgrant cries about the book meme flooding his liferea.
 * ScottK considered posting about a "Don't do the meme" meme, but is going to bed instead.
<LaserJock> wgrant: I had a good one from my Laser Spectroscopy book
<LaserJock> I found out how to do LaTeX in wordpress.com
<wgrant> I'm not sure which is the closest book to me right now, but two that have come up on Planet so far are about tied for closest.
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't come up ...
<wgrant> Heh.
<StevenK> There are two closest books to me -- The Mad Ship, by Robin Hobb and Tangled Webs, by Anne Bishop
<LaserJock> I've got Laser Spectroscopy, Bible, Philosopher's Handbook
<StevenK> Oooh. The fifth sentence on page 56 of Tangled Webs is good.
<LaserJock> I don't know *any* of the books so far
<Flannel> "The latter component is undesirable and is a result of the nonlinear transfer characteristic of the amplifier." -- Microelectronic Circuits, Sedra and Smith.
<ajmitch> the closest book to me when reading planet earlier was a plone book, which I'm sure is NSFW
<wgrant> ajmitch: Hahaha.
<StevenK> "Since he'd spent the past few years teaching her how to defend herself with objects she would normally have at hand, he was looking at a pissed-off woman whose hands were full of potential weapons."
 * Flannel has no blag.
<wgrant> StevenK: You need a blog noww.
<wgrant> -w
<StevenK> Do not
<ajmitch> StevenK: resist
<StevenK> I do not need a blog, or facebook, or myspace or any other time sinks
<ajmitch> no, for you have WoW :)
<LaserJock> I have a facebook thingy I think
<StevenK> ajmitch: Shush :-P
<ajmitch> it only took about 18 hours to get servers back after maintenance today :)
<StevenK> I heard
 * wgrant fell into Facebook a month or two ago :(
<wgrant> But I am so far blogless and MySpaceless.
<LaserJock> I won't touch MySpace with a ten-foot pole
<wgrant> Neitherr.
<LaserJock> I don't even get what facebook is for
<ajmitch> wasting time
<LaserJock> LinkedIn at least seems to have some usefulness
<wgrant> Facebook seems to be for wasting time.
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> Ah yes, I have a LinkedIn account too.
 * ajmitch has an account there
<LaserJock> I have a twitter and identi.ca account
<LaserJock> but that's a *real* time waster
 * wgrant doesn't.
<wgrant> I have a Launchpad account.
<LaserJock> almost as bad as IRC ;-)
<ajmitch> I'm glad I don't
 * ajmitch looks on linkedin
<StevenK> wgrant: Why did you give in for Facebook? :-)
<wgrant> StevenK: I don't remember. Somebody managed to convince me it was a good idea.
<ajmitch> heh, more WoW screwups, free gear this time
<wgrant> ajmitch: What happened?
<wgrant> And how many people died because of it?
<ajmitch> well they just had an overly long maintenance period where they lost everyone's in-game mail
<wgrant> Ah.
<ajmitch> and currently some of the pvp gear costs nothing, so people are swarming the vendors to get it
<ajmitch> heads will roll
<wgrant> Terrible.
<ajmitch> expansion release is tomorrow
 * StevenK can't wait
<ajmitch> this amount of instability & screwups doesn't bode well
<StevenK> Indeed
<StevenK> It's been unstable since patch 3.0.2
<ajmitch> there are a few bugs about it in wine's bugzilla
<ajmitch> like the abysmal graphics performance many people are getting
 * StevenK adds "Me too"
<StevenK> Only during boss fights. Which you know, helps
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it really helps when I'm the main tank & getting 2-4 FPS
<stefanlsd> 3.0.3 runs nicely on wine for me
 * wgrant has no idea about WoW whatsoever.
<StevenK> stefanlsd: Do you raid?
<ajmitch> you're one of the lucky ones :)
<stefanlsd> StevenK: ok, no.   not that hardcore :)
<ajmitch> it mostly works well for me, but I get pretty much all the symptoms from http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15925
<ubottu> bugs.winehq.org bug 15925 in -unknown "World of Warcraft: Extreme FPS drop since 3.0.2" [Normal,New]
 * StevenK looks
<ajmitch> oh thanks ubottu :P
<wgrant> ajmitch: That template text is rather bland, yes.
<StevenK> Hmph. No workaround or anything
<wgrant> StevenK: Yes there is... Play Ubuntu instead.
<ajmitch> there are some mentioned, like disabling pixel shaders in winecfg
<StevenK> I do that during work time
<ajmitch> but I haven't noticed a difference yet
<StevenK> wgrant: WoW is fun.
<anlmal> Ne, vladiko, ako Boga znadeÅ¡!
<anlmal> Kakva te je spopala nesreÄa
<anlmal> teno kukaÅ¡ kao kukavica
<anlmal> i topiÅ¡ se u srpske nesreÄe?
<anlmal> Da li ovo svetkovanje nije
<anlmal> na komu si sabra Crnogorce
<anlmal> da Äistimo zemlju od nekrsti?
<anlmal> I bez toga ovo nam je slava,
<anlmal> na koju se vrsni momci kupe
<anlmal> sposobnosti svoje da kuÅ¡aju,
<anlmal> silu miÅ¡ce i brzinu nogah;
<anlmal> strijeljanjem da se nadmaÅ¡aju
<anlmal> i sjeÄenjem u opkladu pleÄah;
<anlmal> da sluÅ¡aju boÅ¾ju leturÄiju
<anlmal> i da vode kolo oko crkve -
<anlmal> da viteÅ¡tvom prsa nabrecaju.
<anlmal> To je tamjan sveti junacima,
<anlmal> to gvozdeni srca u momcima!
<anlmal> Turi takve razgovore crne!
<anlmal> Ljudi trpe, a Å¾ene nariÄu;
<anlmal> nema posla u plaha glavara!
<anlmal> Ti nijesi samorana glava:
<anlmal> vidiÅ¡ ove pet stotin momÄadi,
<anlmal> koje Äudo snage i lakoÄe
<anlmal> u njih danas ovÄe vidijesmo?
<anlmal> ViÄaÅ¡e li kako strijeljaju,
<anlmal> ka se grada vjeÅ¡to izigraÅ¡e,
<anlmal> kako hitro grabljahu kapice?
<anlmal> Tek Å¡to vuÄad za majkom pomile,
<anlmal> igrajuÄ se straÅ¡ne zube svoje
<anlmal> veÄ umiju pod grlom ostriti;
<anlmal> tek sokolu prvo perje nikne,
<anlmal> on ne moÅ¾e viÅ¡e mirovati,
<anlmal> nego svoje razmeÄe gnijezdo,
<anlmal> grabeÄ slamku jednu i po jednu
<anlmal> s njom put neba bjeÅ¾i cijuÄuÄi.
<anlmal> Sve je ovo nekakva nauka!
<anlmal> Bez momÄadi ove te su ovÄe
<anlmal> Å¡est putah je joÅ¡t ovliko doma;
<anlmal> njina sila, to je tvoja sila.
<anlmal> Dokle Turci sve njih savladaju
<anlmal> mnoge Äe se bule ocrniti;
<anlmal> borbi naÅ¡oj kraja biti neÄe
<anlmal> do istrage turske ali naÅ¡e...
<anlmal> Nada nema pravo ni u koga
<anlmal> do u Boga i u svoje ruke;
<anlmal> nadanje se naÅ¡e zakopalo
<anlmal> na Kosovo u jednu grobnicu.
<anlmal> U dobru je lako dobro biti,
<anlmal> na muci se poznaju junaci!
<stefanlsd> sigh
<StevenK> stefanlsd: Agreed
 * fabrice_sp agree
 * ajmitch pokes Hobbsee 
<StevenK> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<iulian> Huh, wth is that?
<anlmal> When the venerable Metal look and feel for Swing first debuted, its main aesthetic competition was the Windows 95 interface. Given the state of graphical user interfaces a decade ago, Metal was an attractive and elegant alternative to the other common interfaces of the time.
<anlmal> The updated Ocean theme in Java SE 5 helped to keep Metal a viable choice up to the present day, but it's time for Swing's cross-platform look and feel to get an overhaul.
<anlmal> Enter the Nimbus Look and Feel. A brand new, modern look and feel based on Synth, Nimbus provides a polished look to applications which choose to use it. And because Nimbus is drawn entirely using Java 2D vector graphics, rather than static bitmaps, it's tiny (only 56KB!) and can be rendered at arbitrary resolutions.
<anlmal> SwingSet3 in Metal
<lifeless> elkbuntu: ping
<anlmal> For compatibility reasons, Metal is still the default Swing look and feel, but updating applications to use Nimbus couldn't be simpler. It only takes a single line of code:
<anlmal> UIManager.setLookAndFeel("com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel");
 * iulian rolls his eyes.
<anlmal> You can also force Nimbus to be the default look and feel by specifying -Dswing.defaultlaf=com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel. on the command line. A more permanent way to set the property is to add
<anlmal> swing.defaultlaf=com.sun.java.swing.plaf.nimbus.NimbusLookAndFeel
<anlmal> to the file <JAVA_HOME>/lib/swing.properties. You will have to create the swing.properties file if it does not already exist.
<anlmal> For further reading about Nimbus, take a look at the Nimbus early access page.
 * Hobbsee looks in
<nickrud> yay!
<iulian> Go Hobbsee Go!
<Hobbsee> wow...
<nellery> yay \o/
<lifeless> thanks Hobbsee
<stefanlsd> at least he could of pasted more interesting stuff to read
<fabrice_sp> \o/ Hobbsee
<lifeless> and how he's done a CTCP time check on me
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: thank you
<StevenK> I'm curious which language it was, though
<lifeless> nordic
<lifeless> russian perhaps
<iulian> Turkish?
<wgrant> Turkish is plausible.
<iulian> I don't think is russian.
<StevenK> Google says Serbian or Croatian
<StevenK> I've got two different answers for two different lines
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<StevenK> I'm guessing Serbian. Google doesn't tell if you translate a web page
<dholbach> hi ajmitch, hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hmm, chatzilla.  I'm surprised the guy didn't just flood out
<StevenK> Or cause a SEGV
<binarymutant> how do you get the 0ubuntu1.deb naming scheme to work with dput?
<fabrice_sp> binarymutant: what do you mean?
<binarymutant> don't you have to rename debs to something_1.2.9-0ubuntu1.deb?
<StevenK> Depends on the circumstances
<binarymutant> would I need to change the name of the deb to upload to revu?
<ajmitch> you'd need to upload a source package to revu
<fabrice_sp> binarymutant: for REVU, you don't upload a deb file
<fabrice_sp> binarymutant: you upload a dsc file
<binarymutant> so dput revu *.dsc ? not *.changes?
<fabrice_sp> soirry: *_source.changes
<fabrice_sp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<binarymutant> thanks for the info I was uploading the binary
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach, Hi ajmitch and Hobbsee
<dholbach> hi geser
<Hobbsee> heya geser
<\sh> hmmm...why don't we have an opennms package...
<StevenK> Isn't OpenNMS a big pig, and hard to install?
<\sh> StevenK: nope
<\sh> StevenK: the package on the opennms page are really simple...well, someone has to do some debian/ubuntu policy audit..but that shouldn't be that hard
<\sh> StevenK: the only bad thing: it's java...but it
<\sh> 's much faster then nagios
<StevenK> How can java be faster? :-P
<StevenK> Admitedly nagios' event handling is ... well, complete crap
<\sh> StevenK: dunno...but it is;-)
<\sh> and it has much more nicer features e.g. for on duty services..asset management (which is far from being complete..but a good start)
<siretart> StevenK: just curious, what bugs you about nagios? I'm rather happy with it, but I havn't seen alternatives either...
<StevenK> siretart: It's web interface is terrible, and it's alerting leaves a lot to be desired
<siretart> like what?
<StevenK> siretart: Sorry?
<siretart> I don't really understand what you miss. possibly I just don't know what alternatives have to offer
<siretart> I'm fairly happy with the email and jabber notifications
<StevenK> siretart: I used and loathed nagios at $PREVIOUS_JOB. I don't have to care any more
<siretart> I see
<StevenK> siretart: We had it monitoring ~ 700 machines with over 5,600 discrete services, and it ran like a complete dog on an SMP Xeon
<\sh> siretart: could be that the former colleagues here did a bad job installing nagios the wrong way...regarding automatic service discovery and running it in cluster mode...
 * siretart didn't notice that nagios had some automatic service discovery or cluser mode feature
<\sh> siretart: see, nagios doesn
<\sh> 't have automatic discovery .. and cluster mode is more self made...,-)
<siretart> StevenK: having looked a bit how nagios works, that story doesn't really surprise me. good that you don't need to care about that setup any more :)
<stefanlsd> StevenK: do u know if it was v2 or v3?
<StevenK> stefanlsd: 2
<stefanlsd> StevenK: 3 has lots of improvements. maybe you'd have a different experience now
<StevenK> stefanlsd: See above, I don't care any more :-)
<stefanlsd> hehe
<DktrKranz> wgrant: I tried to fix gcl FTBFS, but it fails to build for brk randomization in 2.6.27 kernels, I need to figure out the new fix.
<wgrant> DktrKranz: Ah, lovely...
<siretart> oh right. I haven't seen nagios2 at all.
 * wgrant likes nagios3.
 * soren just like nagios
<DktrKranz> fixing gcl doesn't mean we fix rdepends, though. They need special care too
<\sh> siretart: btw...do you know if sistopy or whoever is working on ghc6 merge?
<wgrant> DktrKranz: The rdepends are less formidable than that abomination.
<\sh> sistpoty ,-)
<siretart> \sh: I hope he is busy with releasing faumachine :-)
<\sh> siretart: *g* new gch6 needs to be injected into jaunty for new darcs
<\sh> ghc6 even...*grmpf* too early this morning
 * wgrant stabs darcs with bzr.
 * StevenK has yet to use darcs
 * \sh wants to roll out bzr @company as default VCS and REPO system...but it's hard to do that, when you have to deal with windows people only
<\sh> old style thinking people are sometimes difficult
<soren> \sh: I was under the impression bzr ran excellently on windows.
<wgrant> soren: It does.
<wgrant> Unlike git.
<soren> There's even tortoisebzr.
<wgrant> Yep.
<wgrant> And it's not even dead.
 * Hobbsee quickly kills it
<Hobbsee> wasn't dead, anyway.
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: ping
<DktrKranz> fargiolas: pong
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: hi, prefer english or italian? (about bug 222580)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222580 in gnome-mastermind "GNOME Mastermind grid is shifted to the right with new cairo releases" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222580
<DktrKranz> fargiolas: no problem with both of them (but Italian only for queries)
<\sh> soren: it does...but the people are not willing to change ,-)
<DktrKranz> fargiolas: I haven't a browser handy, but I remember that bug, need a sponsor?
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: since I used intrepid for a while now I almost forgot about that bug, now I just bought a dell mini with hardy and I see it's yet to be fixed
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: it's been quite some time it's out now, and jdong already said the fix was ok, why hasn't it been committed yet?
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: I'm not an ubuntu dev :P I'm not really aware about the sponsorship mechanism
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: actually that's the only debdiff I ever did
<DktrKranz> fargiolas: usually SRUs are processed slower than other bugs, I can do it this evening. Mind subscribing me to the bug (just to make sure it falls on my radar)
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: done, thank you :)
<DktrKranz> "prego" ;)
<fargiolas> DktrKranz: it's always a bit odd to talk in english with other italian guys :) grazie
<DktrKranz> not so odd here ;)
<\sh> yay...one bug fixed...more to go
<\sh> ScottK: ping libdb cruft removal smtpguard still relies on libdb4.3 (as you are my postfix and clamav hero) do you want to deal with it?
<huats> morning everyone
<gouki> huats, morning :)
<huats> hey gouki
<huats> :)
<stefanlsd> Does someone mind looking at: bug #296648
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296648 in jigdo "Please merge jigdo 0.7.3-2 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296648
<stefanlsd> Re the comment to close the other bug. It was mentioned that i should put in in the changelog for the merge, but that wasnt my change, and wasnt carried across as an outstanding ubuntu change.
<stefanlsd> So should the merge autoclose another bug, or should that other bug be closed manually?
<\sh> stefanlsd: merge already done...
<\sh> stefanlsd: I saw the bug too late...
<gouki> I'm getting a 'cannot create regular file '/usr/local/bin/name': Permission denied on pbuilder. Any ideas?
<\sh> gouki: not the right $DESTDIR location for installation ...
<stefanlsd> \sh: should the changelog have auto closed the other bug?
<\sh> stefanlsd: to be more precise...I'm just working on getting rid the old libdb* dependencies...and jigdo had still libdb4.3-dev b-ds...so I took it when I realized too late that there was a merge of you pending.
<\sh> stefanlsd: tbh..it could...but as said, I saw the bugs too late and didn't mention it...I'll close them manually now
<gouki> \sh, mmm, OK. Thanks.
<stefanlsd> \sh: you mentioned in the comment libdb4.4 was in control, but i dont see that in the debdiff?
<stefanlsd> \sh: im just trying to work out, what is the *correct* thing to do in the changelog. Do we just mention that it has been upgraded to close the bug (although it wasnt something we did, it was done in debian change earlier), or do we just close the bug?
<\sh> stefanlsd: the former version in intrepid had libdb4.4-dev in the b-d..and the new upstream package had it now corrected via NMU...(that's why I didn't see it in the first place)..as said, blame me ,-)
<stefanlsd> aah, naa. ste*n's dont do stuff wrong :)
<\sh> stefanlsd: well, bug #240490 could have been autoclosed during the merge with the (LP: #240490) tag attached to the debdiff yes...that would be the right thing to do :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240490 in jigdo "please transition to newer libdb branch" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240490
<stefanlsd> \sh: oh ok. thanks. wasnt sure if we could do that as we actually didnt do anything except sync that change from debian which was already in the changelog.  but i guess it does make sense that we could of just said - Debian builds with libdb4.6 (LP: #240490) or something.
<gouki> Is there a way of having debuild to automagically sign the files?
<\sh> gouki: debuild -S
<gouki> \sh, it will ask me for the passphrase. I wanted it to sign automatically. :)
<soren> gpg-agent
<\sh> gouki: ah...gpg-agent, seahorse...
<gouki> Thank you.
<gouki> I have the DESTDIR set to $(CURDIR)/debian/name install, but it still fails because of permissions.
<gouki> Never mind. Think I found it :)
<gouki> Ok, I haven't. Both /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin fail with permission denied. Ideas?
<soren> What's the exact error message?
<gouki> soren,  'cannot create regular file '/usr/local/bin/name': Permission denied' on pbuilder.
<wgrant> gouki: You're not installing into DESTDIR.
<wgrant> Your Makefile is probably broken.
<gouki> wgrant, I was able to install it with the included Makefile. But that doesn't mean anything, does it?
<wgrant> No.
<gouki> Relevant pbuilder output is here, in case anyone wants to take a look: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70859
<gouki> As for he Makefile: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70860
<soren> I somehow doubt that's the real makefile..
<soren> It reads:
<soren>         install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/local/bin
<soren> and your pbuilder log says:
<soren> install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/bin
<sebner> \sh: be honest, you just gave a (positive) comment because my name is Ste{f,ph}an :P :P :P
<gouki> I just changed it to see if it would work with /usr/bin.
<soren> Besides, your Makefile doesn't use use DESTDIR.
<\sh> gouki: install:
<\sh>         install -c -o 0 -g 0 -s swiggle /usr/local/bin
<\sh> is wrong
<\sh> you need to use $DESTDIR
<soren> $(DESTDIR), really.
<gouki> Ok. Thank you.
<toabctl> hi
<iulian> Huh
<\sh> sebner: nope :)
<sebner> \sh: heh, what do you think about my beginning? ^ ^
<gouki> Hmm, with $(DESTDIR) on the Makefile things work out pretty well :) Thanks!
<\sh> sebner: you mean "The spamming monster" ?
<sebner> \sh: in general, all of them :P
<sebner> \sh: btw, I thought your favorite will be "The boy from Hell" :P
<\sh> sebner: no...hellboy has a too much red skin for me ,-)
<sebner> \sh: heh
<savvas> using launchpad's PPA, does anoyone know if I copy the built binaries from intrepid to hardy, will they work?
<Hobbsee> maybe.  try asking #launchpad
<Hobbsee> i think it's supposed to
<savvas> it's for secret maryo chronicles, 1.6 version: https://launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive
<\sh> Hobbsee: are you working on spamprobe merge? if not, I would like to to take it also regarding libdb-dev transition
<savvas> hey Hobbsee :) I finally managed to upload it hehe
<Hobbsee> \sh: no, go ahead.  I think i listed that on dad as being fine.  Someone else might be though.
<\sh> Hobbsee: ok..thx...then I go ahead...
<Hobbsee> \sh: i offered up my merges, and someone talked about taking them.  unfortunately, i've forgotten who it was
<_s3rggg_> hi
<_s3rggg_> excuse me, how can i upload a patch to release-proposed?
<_s3rggg_> nobady can help me?
<azeem> _s3rggg_: crossposting questions in different chans is not very useful
<_s3rggg_> i know, i was waiting for a response
<_s3rggg_> thank you
<ScottK> \sh: Not really (smtpguard).  Unless it uses libdb transactions, the version dependency can just be bumped.
<RainCT> Hi
<\sh> ScottK: already resolved :)
<ScottK> Great.
<\sh> ScottK: needed a configure.ac/configure patch
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Didn't run into one before that needed that.
<\sh> ScottK: control was already in shape...but some sources are really painful
<\sh> ScottK: reprepro needs one as well...that's right the package I'm working on...
<ScottK> Well you have to be a bit masochistic to be a MOTU anyway.
<\sh> ScottK: not only to be a MOTU ;)
<ScottK> Well yes, but this is supposed to be a family friendl channel.
<\sh> ScottK: still have T -5M to learn how to be PC ;)
<laga> what's gonna happen in 5M?
<\sh> laga: M == Months ;) and then I have a merge of my girl and me :)
<laga> \sh: congrats :) that's great news
<\sh> laga: that just means, that I have to come home early...and no beer with colleagues anymore, but changing diapers :) and providing support for at least 18 years ;)
<Milyardo> Good morning #ubuntu-motu
<rrittenhouse> If I ever need to test a package with a certain Ubuntu version and maybe even go as far as with certain packages installed all with using VM's?
<rrittenhouse> Is there a way to do that
<rrittenhouse> I guess once VMWare catches up and I can use it on Ibex I could have a default install with a clean snapshot and after I'm done testing I could revert. I was just wondering if there was a better way.
<\sh> df
<handschuh> hi. If I include libraries into my package that are from a different author, do I have to add the author to "Upstream-Author"?
<handschuh> at debian/copyright
<joaopinto> handschuh, libraries are expect to be provided on self-contained packages, not bundler with your package
<handschuh> of course the other author is mentioned, but not under Upstream-author
<joaopinto> bundled
<soren> handschuh: As a general rule, we don't ship libraries that way.
<soren> handschuh: You're supposed to ship that library in a different package.
<soren> handschuh: Unless you have a very, very good reason.
<handschuh> well I know ... but these are java-jars
<handschuh> I do!
<soren> Let's hear it, then :)
<handschuh> the java-jars that are in the repositories are poorly maintained (at least the ones I want to use)
<\sh> java-jars? binary jar-libs shipped in source packages?
<handschuh> sh: well ... yes
<\sh> handschuh: why don't you try to shape the stuff in our repositories so anyone can use them again? :)
<handschuh> sh: yes I wanted to do that after my program was accepted ...
<soren> handschuh: That's not a good reason.
<soren> handschuh: That's a good reason to fix up the ones in the archive.
<handschuh> so i have to update the other packages first?
<\sh> handschuh: yes :)
<soren> handschuh: Or talk to the current maintainers and have them do it for you.
<geser> handschuh: if you want your package accepted, updating them would increase the possibility to get it included
<handschuh> soren: ok will try that first
<handschuh> another small question: if source-files are genreated automatically ... do they need a license?
<handschuh> say wsdl->java
<\sh> For what are you generating a source file from a remote wsdl? (I think you mean those RPC wsdl files, right?)
<handschuh> sh: yes the rpc-files for calling a webservice
<\sh> handschuh: well, thinking about wsdl files and how to get them: depending on the webservice, you should ask if you can distribute them in source form...but I think this shouldn't be the correct way, because if something changes on the remote side...you need to recompile all your sources...that's not a good design
<handschuh> sh: so again, a new package?
<\sh> java (afaik) has the possiblity to dynamically create objects/methods from those remote api definitions (like perl or python) .. so you don't need to ship/distribute  them but getting them via http call
<handschuh> yes but at the cost of speed
<savvas> something like ubuntu maintainers use with the flash player package?
<handschuh> if you have a wsdl-file that is 2mb large, it takes about 20 minutes on an averange machine to correctly pasre
<geser> handschuh: as you need to include that wsdl-file in the source package (buildd have no internet access), talk to upstream if you are allowed to do it
<\sh> handschuh: can you give me an example of such an wsdl file?
<handschuh> sh: the ebay api's wsdl is about 2,6 mb
<handschuh> geser: I have to include the wsdl?
<handschuh> geser: why that?
<\sh> handschuh: because it's the real source of your java classes then
<handschuh> sh: ah ok, makes sanse
<geser> handschuh: yes, how else will you transform it to java source without internet access?
<handschuh> sense
<handschuh> geser, good point
<\sh> handschuh: you generate the .java file dynamically from the wsdl file...and the api which is described in there is copyrighted and has a license...I wonder if you are allowed to ship those definitions
<handschuh> sh: the license is cddl (also the wsdl-file)
<handschuh> ok again for my understanding: src-package contains the wsdl and the non-automatic genereated files
<handschuh> and each api (in my case the ebay api) should be a separate package
<\sh> handschuh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70936/ <- that's the python source of a simple wsdl fetch an parse code...it took less then one minute
<\sh> (including network time of fetching 4.2M)
<\sh> so.. regarding time, the only bottleneck is your network...which doesn't count because you send data over your network to ebays network when you want to query stuff
<coolbhavi> hello please take a look:  http://pastebin.com/d1f9d7b6d I am testing out...
<coolbhavi> patch doesnt apply
<handschuh> sh: so I am supposed not to include the generated and compiled files in the binary package?
<\sh> handschuh: I think you are able to solve the problem using http://ws.apache.org/wsif/ to dynamically parse and use wsdl definitions in java :)
<handschuh> sh: but then I would not be able to use the java-api, ebay is providing (additionally to the generated classes)
<coolbhavi> This is the output I get: http://pastebin.com/d220a440
<handschuh> sh: i am totally fine with having the wsdl file included in the source-package but in binary package this would cause a lot of work and adjustment (not just once but on every new sdk-release)
<\sh> handschuh: I just had a look at the developer pages of ebay...I know now why you want to have this generated
<\sh> that's why I don't like java ,-)
<\sh> too complicated
<handschuh> sh: just in the binary ... not in the source
<\sh> handschuh: yes...but you need to generate the binary java class during build time ... and then install them into the binary package..so you need to ship the wsdl in your source package
<handschuh> sh: yes thats what I want to do (as suggested here)
<handschuh> sh: would that be acceptable?
<\sh> handschuh: if you confirm to the license of ebay api, (http://developer.ebay.com/join/licenses/) why not
<handschuh> sh: ok. so I have to create a ebaysdk-java package wirst?
<handschuh> w->f
<\sh> handschuh: yes...but the sdk is different from the api interface
<savvas> I wonder if jbidwatcher and esniper use the ebay api
<handschuh> sh: so 2 packages? 1 for the api and one for the sdk (depending on the api-package)?
<handschuh> savvas: they have to
<\sh> handschuh: the sdk you can download directly from developer.ebay...but it needs the generated wsdl stuff...and this belongs to the api...which is different from the license point of view..ask ebay first, if it's possible to ship the wsdl api definition without running into problems, stated in their api license
<\sh> savvas: they do...but they don't have to use the SDKs ebay provides...that's the developers decision...the (remote) api is a different thing...
<savvas> ah ok
<handschuh> sh+savvas: but I truely think, jbidwatcher also uses the sdk
<\sh> handschuh: as I said...the sdk is imho the easiest package..(without any problems on license side, at least for me)...regarding the api package, I'm not sure, if you are able to ship that wsdl or the generated files...
<handschuh> sh: ok I will check that
<\sh> handschuh: read http://developer.ebay.com/join/licenses/ and you have to take care about the different api license agreements for the ebay countries (uk, germany, france, etc.)
<handschuh> sh: the api is the same, so the license only differs on the logos and how to present auctions on search
<\sh> handschuh: ok..but afaics there is no word about distribution or shipping the api...imho it's best to ask their license department
<handschuh> sh: ok I will direclty ask ebay about this
<handschuh> sh: assuming they are fine with it, any other things i have to take care of (except the division into 2 packages)
<\sh> handschuh: we'll see it then ;)
<handschuh> sh: ok, thank you very much  :-)
 * ScottK wonders how long it'll take to get unpleasant comments to his latest blog post.
<broonie> What's controversial about it?
<\sh> ScottK: you blogged again? ;)
<ScottK> Yeah.  Waiting for it to hit planet.
<\sh> ScottK: just read it directly on your host :)
<\sh> and I don't see anything wrong with it
<ScottK> I don't either, but I'm fairly certain there are those who will defend their right to be annoying and developers should be forced to pay attention.
<\sh> I do read u-d-d only when I have enough time...and most of the time I read something about non working hardware, which I can't confirm, because I don't have this strange hardware
<\sh> and it's already hard to ask people via bug reports on LP for more information...
<\sh> or like yesterday when I replied on a mail on launchpad-users ml regarding the version numbering...It took only 1minute when I got a reply offlist from one guy who was/is subcribed to the list (knowingly or not) with "<some spanish stuff" ending with F. U. in english...
<handschuh> sh: ebay is fine with the shipping of the wsdl file
<directhex> how can i pass an env var to configure in cdbs?
<joaopinto> ScottK, per your description, it is also sad to notice that some developers pay too much attention to people that could simply be ignored, and worse than that  they are willing to ignore all users because they don't like to read a few bad users
<ScottK> joaopinto: Some people are better than others at ignoring upleasantness thrown at them.  It's only human not to like it.
<joaopinto> so, you could just turn the subject around, if "Do you really want users to be on this list."
<broonie> joaopinto: Often the annoying users drown out the constructive ones, sadly.
<ScottK> joaopinto: Sure, but we've no shortage of those.
<joaopinto> broonie, usuallly only when you feed them
<broonie> You, or anyone else, feeds them.
<ScottK> Fortunately because it's Ubuntu and not Debian, I never had to promise to care about the users.
<ScottK> ;-)
<broonie> Hey, Debian never specified that users were a high priority :)
 * directhex relicenses an app with a "people i hate may not use this app" license
<ScottK> broonie: Social Contract.
<broonie> ScottK: Just says they're priorities :)
<ScottK> True.  Not which one.  Good point.
 * pwnguin doesn't even bother with -discuss
<pwnguin> if nobody reads it, it's not worth posting to
<ScottK> Some still do.
<ScottK> I personally fixed some stuff in Intrepid because of posts to devel-discuss.
<pwnguin> i saw that
<pwnguin> your kdvi example is odd
<pwnguin> same dude who asked about it wrote the recent thread
<ScottK> In that case the user (with some help from Google) convinced me that we were dropping functionality that was valuable for a significant consituency.
<pwnguin> If I was feeling cheeky, I'd point out that by doing that you rewarded and encouraged a certain style
<joaopinto> the increasing number of users is expected to increase the noise, it needs to be filtered, not shutdown
<ScottK> joaopinto: So consider my post a plea for self-filtering then.
<\sh> hmm..I also do hear here at our company many people complaining about this and that in ubuntu, or why we through away this or that feature in this or that software..some people even swear to me...
<ScottK> pwnguin: I'd say I succeeded in seeing past the form to the substance.
<broonie> \sh: That's pretty much normal for any software.
<broonie> TBF if you're used to commercial software then you're used to there being no constructive way to complain.
<pwnguin> ~ScottK: in the meantime, people are forming a hypothesis that declaring "ubuntu sucks, the developers are stupid, and if nothing happens ILL SWITCH" is a productive way to get attention
<joaopinto> ScottK, sure, those which do those kind of posts will really read and care about your common sense lectures
<\sh> I'm always fixing the problem with those people with "you have two choices. 1) Let's have a drink and we talk later about it and 2) Let's go out and I'll punch you right in your face..."...mostly they choose 1) and after I'm finished drinking with them, they don't even know why they drank at all...and they forgot their problem with ubuntu ,->
<pwnguin> its certainly not something i would have predicted either, but it seems to be the case
<pwnguin> a similar example would be the foxconn crap
<pwnguin> a complete violation of CoC, but it DID get enough attention fix the kernel quickly
<\sh> pwnguin: but if anybody is doing it like that, no dev would care about fixing this stuff...
<pwnguin> anybody?
<pwnguin> or everybody?
<\sh> pwnguin: everybody...
<pwnguin> ok, that makes more sense ;)
<pwnguin> indeed, it fails the categorical imperative
<\sh> that was kant who introduced it...long time ago..
<slytherin> geser: there?
<geser> slytherin: yes, but I have to leave in a few minutes. So hurry :)
<slytherin> geser: No issues. Filed 2 move to universe bugs yesterday. Take a look at them when you have time. imagej and robocode
<geser> will do. I assume u-u-s is as usually subscribed?
<slytherin> geser: yes
<geser> then I'll find them when going over the u-u-s queue
<slytherin> geser: By that time I will have probably added two more. :-)
<AnAnt_> can someone look at this sync request (bug 295677)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295677 in sl-modem "Please sync sl-modem 2.9.11~20080817-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295677
<slytherin> AnAnt_: A quick note, you need to give reason as to why Ubuntu changes can be dropped.
<AnAnt_> slytherin: the changelog mentions that I have merged Ubuntu changes
<AnAnt_> slytherin: I mean that they are merged in the debian package
<mrooney> Are there are guides for making packages out of python apps? I found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PythonRecipes/DebianPackage but it specifically says not to use it, which is confusing.
<slytherin> AnAnt_: The changelog is too big. If I were MOTU, I would like to see reasons at the top.
<AnAnt_> ok
<Laney> mrooney: Debian has a python policy
<RainCT> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<slytherin> AnAnt_: just a one liner saying that all the changed have been merged in Debian is sufficient.
<mrooney> I am trying to learn how to make my first package, out of a python application, and I am looking for a good resource
<slytherin> any archive admins around?
<RainCT> mrooney: does it have a setup.py file?
<AnAnt_> slytherin: ok, thanks
<mrooney> RainCT: nope, I am wondering if that should be my first step
<slytherin> mrooney: What is important to you? 1. Learn way of packaging OR 2. Create a package out of scratch? If the answer is 1, then you can probably try fixing small problems in existing packages and you will learn a lot in the process.
<RainCT> mrooney: it's easier to package if it has one, but it isn't required
<mrooney> slytherin: well both but primarily I am interested in creating a package for a project I am the developer of, so I can have updates via a PPA and ideally have it in Jaunty
<slytherin> mrooney: ok
<mrooney> Know of any good resources for creating a python package from scratch? I've seen easy-deb and also http://showmedo.com/videos/video?name=linuxJensMakingDeb, though I am not sure what the standard approach is
<persia> mrooney, Does it use distutils?
<mrooney> persia: not currently though if that is the proper way I could do that, currently you just run it via say "python main.py"
<mrooney> it has no "set up" process
<persia> mrooney, Well, you'll want to first adjust it so that it can be called by some binary name, and has it's own unique namespace.
<sebner> persia: poor you. So *many* applications O_o
<persia> (and that "binary" (executable script) should not have a .py extension, in case you later decide to reimplement in common lisp)
<persia> sebner, Well, archive open is a popular time to want to be MOTU.  Lots of work to do, and people just finishing the freeze with good examples of work well done.
<slytherin> persia: any idea if there is an automated way for an archive admin of going through arch:all packages in jaunty multiverse, check which of them have same version in Debian main and move them to universe accordingly.
<persia> mrooney, So, if it's just a single file, it's just a matter of renaming it, which is trivial.  If it's a bunch of files, you need to worry about namespace, etc. and probably want distutils.
<mrooney> persia: yeah it is a bunch of files, artwork, translations, et cetera
<mrooney> a medium-sized project
<persia> slytherin, There are ways to do this.  I'd recommend starting with quinn-diff if you wanted to take a look, although several people (including myself) have written scripts that do subsets of what quinn-dif does.
<bddebian> Oh persia is here.. :)  You bored? ;-)
<sebner> persia: I see. good luck then =)
<persia> mrooney, For a medium size project, you probably do want to use distutils or make or something to convert it from the format easiest to use for working on it into the format users will want it on their systems.
<persia> bddebian, For you, I'm always bored.
<bddebian> heh
<persia> Which bug?
<slytherin> persia: I will check. The reason I am asking is that, as Debian continues moving to openjdk, the packages moving from non-free to main are going to increase. So the move to universe is kind of never ending activity if I do it manually.
<bmm> Anybody willing to comment, I'm online to respond to an upstream update: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild or a new package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink . Thanks in advance!
<mrooney> persia: so what am I using distutils to do, place the binary, put the icons and desktop file and such in the correct locations?
<persia> slytherin, Yep.  On the other hand, it takes two developers to move a package (and one of them must be an archive admin), so someone needs to file the bugs.  If you write a script to file them, and you take responsibility for the results, that works just as well as if you do it manually.
<bddebian> persia: It's actually a build system issue.  Give me one sec
<persia> mrooney, Essentially.  Then you'll use a tool like python-support or python-central to make sure that they are deployed cleanly.
<bddebian> persia: http://people.debian.org/~bdefreese/mpg321/
<persia> Could someone who knows more about python packaging please help mrooney?
<slytherin> persia: hmm. I guess I will continue to do it the way I am doing currently.
<persia> bddebian, FTBFS on sid i386?  sid amd64?  jaunty hppa?
<mrooney> persia: okay, so I guess I have to now look up the proper place for all the different files such as artwork and translations to go :)
<persia> mrooney, Well, you can probably get someone to give you an example package from which to start.  I'm just not the right person.
<persia> It's usually better to leverage other's work to understand things than to hunt for all the different documentation.
<bddebian> persia: sid i386 for sure.  What's weird is that I had to manually run autoconf --add-missing to get depcomp.  It builds OK locally but when building in a pbuilder I get /bin/bash: depcomp File not found
<bddebian> And I'm lost on why autoreconf/etc keeps barfing on AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T
<persia> bddebian, depcomp: broken symbolic link to `/usr/share/automake-1.10/depcomp' : needs build-dep tweak or a real depcomp.
<persia> I'm very much not sure about the barfing.  How do I reproduce that?
<bddebian> SHite, what an idiot, I didn't even catch that depcomp was a symlink..
 * bddebian must stop the drugs
<persia> bddebian, Well, you had context.  All I knew was that depcomp was broken, so the first thing I did after test-build was look at it, but in a sid chroot without autoconf :)
<bddebian> persia: autoreconf or autoconf should complain about AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T
<slytherin> bddebian: any chance you are using different version of automake than what the build-dep specify.
<bddebian> I don't build-dep on them.  It's a native package, I just had to re-run for large file support
<bddebian> It had a problem with AM_PATH_AO also but I fixed that already
<persia> bddebian, Hrm.  apt-file search sockinttypes.m4 returns nothing, yet http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/README clearly states that AC_TYPE_SOCKLEN_T is defined in m4/sockinttypes.m4
<persia> I suspect something changed, and as a result, something else needs to change.
<persia> Or maybe not
<bddebian> I think I can hack some crap directly into aclocal.m4 but I really despise doing that
<persia> No, don't do that.  Just install the gnulib package.
 * persia would again like to have Clean-Depends: and Packaging-Depends: headers to avoid hunting for these things
<quadrispro> hi RainCT
<quadrispro> updated -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<quadrispro> bye
<webtech_m33> is there any one here that takes are of netpbm ?
<ia> hello, everybody. i'm a newbie in creating deb-packages, but i would like to know - when debuild/dpkg-buildpackage is not enough and in which cases should use "pbuilder build" for creating binary package? what differents in this tools?
<sebner> ia: if you are using pbuilder you have a clean build environment and you can better check you you have all the necessary build depends
<jdong> ia: debuild/dpkg-buildpackage use contents from your host system to satisfy builds. If you have funny stuff on your host it can affect how things are built. In addition, builds that succeed locally might fail in a Ubuntu build daemon
<jdong> pbuilder more accurately simulates the build environment in the build server cleanroom
<jdong> it also lets you target distributions and configurations other than your host system's
<jdong> and doesn't litter the host with -dev packages galore
<ia> sebner, jdong: thank you very much. I've got it :-)
<blueyed> Is the whole of virtualbox-ose 2.0.4-dfsg-0ubuntu2 SRU-worthy? At least bug 293237, bug 292856 and the change in the error message (now mentioning virtualbox-ose-source) is, IMHO, but the other fixes are nice to have, too.. changelog is at: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293237 in virtualbox-ose "Missing packages virtualbox-ose-guest-modules-* in 8.10" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293237
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292856 in virtualbox-ose "[intrepid] guest utils do not work with xserver" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292856
<mok0> Anyone interested in the ATLAS library?
<leslieviljoen> hi ppl
<leslieviljoen> does anyone know who is responsible for building packages for PowerPc? A lot of basic software is segfaulting out of the box, but a simple source rebuild seems to fix many of these packages. I'd like to request or arrange or try myself to make updates for these packages - but my package-fu is not strong.
<leslieviljoen> more info: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=977120
<mok0> leslieviljoen: PPC packages are built for Ubuntu, but the platform is not formally supported
<ScottK> leslieviljoen: There is not one specific person, but NCommander and TheMuso (not currently online) tend to care.
<ScottK> mok0: doko has cared about ATLAS in the past.
<NCommander> leslieviljoen, at the moment, the PowerPC support is a little *ahem* unstable. I recommend you use Hardy over Intrepid.
<leslieviljoen> hardy doesn't even install
<mok0> ScottK: OK. Just wondering why the version in both Debian & Ubuntu is way out of date
<leslieviljoen> and there's no wireless
<NCommander> leslieviljoen, what hardware? PS3?
<leslieviljoen> No, PPC Mac Mini
<NCommander> Odd
<ScottK> mok0: I think doko is the one you want.
<NCommander> A bunch of people have installed on that hardware, both Gutsy and Hardy
<NCommander> No reported issue, no reported MIA wireless
<NCommander> leslieviljoen, TheMuso has a PPC Mini, he'll know more than I do
<leslieviljoen> I installed Gutsy, but Hardy never started. Even Inrtepid requires a lot of ctrl-alt-f1 as it boots to actually get a login screen.
<leslieviljoen> I had to "nosplash"
<leslieviljoen> Wireless is great in Intrepid but I tried for 6 months in Gutsy without any luck
<leslieviljoen> Then again, it's the older PPC with Airport (bcm43xx I believe) - the Mac Mini which doesn't have a CD writer
<doko> mok0, ScottK: the atlas build is non-trivial to update for atlas-3.8. if you do want to give it a try, please go ahead and email me on questions
<leslieviljoen> Anyway, I'd like to help the poor people who have to recompile these packages. Sorry for the noise in this channel.
<leslieviljoen> Should I mail someone?
<leslieviljoen> If I "apt-get source", then dpkg-buildpackage, I create packages which then work, but I think I have to change the version numbers or something because the software updater then offers to "upgrade" my packages back to the broken ones.
<mok0> doko: I thought it might be something like that. The version we have is the latest netlib version (3.6.0), but the project now lives at sf.net and the current stable version is up to 3.8.2
<mok0> doko, the problem I've been looking at tonight is the fact that atlas does not compile on lpia arch, and that cascades onto a number of dependents
<doko> mok0: yes, all known. please let me know if you want to update this beast. but be prepared, it will take some time
<mok0> doko, another weird thing about atlas is  Bug #295051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295051 in atlas "new atlas for gfortran ABI has its fortran wrapper built with g77" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295051
<NCommander> hey doko
<mok0> doko: Revising the packaging is daunting, I don't have the time required to take it on at the moment
<doko> mok0: any patch/help/update is appreciated
<mok0> doko: I am baffeled how g77 gets into the build, I can't see there's a trace of it in Build-depends
<doko> g77 isn't built anymore
<mok0> doko: right, so why is is listed?
<mok0> doko: Does atlas include its own g77 compiler?
<doko> no
<mok0> doko, how do you explain this:    F77 : /home/camm/usr/bin/g77, version GNU Fortran (GCC) 3.3.3 (Debian 20040422)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian: HTTP Error 404: No such bug (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=20040422;mbox=yes)
<doko> mok0: which report?
<mok0> Bug 295051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295051 in atlas "new atlas for gfortran ABI has its fortran wrapper built with g77" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295051
<doko> mok0: added a comment
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> doko: heh, yes exactly. It's weird
<mok0> doko: I am also puzzled by the "/home/camm" reference; it seems to be the root dir of the Debian maintainer (?)
<leslieviljoen> anyone?
<leslieviljoen> my question: how do I rebuild a package that I apt-get source'd so that once its installed apt-get upgrade won't immediately try to revert it back to the original?
<RainCT> leslieviljoen: increase the version number (like, append "build1" to it)
<joaopinto> leslieviljoen, you just need to make sure that the version is equal or greater than the one available on the repositories
<leslieviljoen> ok great
<leslieviljoen> then, if I wanted to distribute my built package, is there anything I should consider?
<leslieviljoen> could I use the PPA facility in launchpad, or do I need some kind of access?
<RainCT> I guess there shouldn't be any problem if you use a ..buildX version number
<wgrant> joaopinto: If it's equal, it will still upgrade to the one in a repo.
<leslieviljoen> do I put the version in the control file?
<RainCT> leslieviljoen: no, in debian/changelog
 * RainCT is looking for a *very* simple but yet somewhat useful C library which hasn't Python bindings :P
<leslieviljoen> Ah, thanks! I see I can activate a PPA to distribute my custom packages too..
<toobaz2> Is "priority != low" only for security patches or also for important bugfixes?
<toobaz2> (oh, and, hello everyone)
<ScottK> toobaz2: It's not used in Ubuntu, only in Debian.
<toobaz2> so I leave "low", right?
<RainCT> toobaz2: yep
<toobaz2> thanks
 * RainCT wonders if Debian has any rules on what priority to use or if that's at the Maintainer's discretion
<lifeless> RainCT: it does; see policy
<toobaz2> lifeless: actually, I did... but found no strict rules...
<toobaz2> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#fr39
 * RainCT neither
<lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities
<lifeless> priority is set by the archive admins
<lifeless> if you have it wrong in your package you get told by one of the lint steps
<toobaz2> sorry, I missed the change of topic
<toobaz2> oh
<RainCT> lifeless: argh, I always mess up the names XD. I mean severity :P
<toobaz2> no
<toobaz2> wait, I completely messed my answer, which was about "urgency" tag
 * wgrant notes that optional/extra priorities in Ubuntu are pretty broken as well.
<siretart> RainCT: severity affects the migration delay unstable->testing (but not during freezes)
<toobaz2> so I reformulate it: does "low" apply for any non-security bugfix, even if important?
<wgrant> Urgency also slightly alters build priority in Soyuz.
<RainCT> siretart: I know :)
<ScottK> toobaz2: Very slightly only.  Just leave it low and don't worry.
<siretart> wgrant: it does? interesting..
<wgrant> siretart: Yes, this was only revealed last week.
<toobaz2> ok, thanks
<RainCT> so, the Maintainer is free to decide (in Debian)?
<leslieviljoen> ..so, the current version of thunar is: "thunar (0.9.0-10ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low", I will make "thunar (0.9.0-10ubuntu1build1) intrepid; urgency=low"
<wgrant> leslieviljoen: You'll use dch -i
<RainCT> wgrant: (it's for a PPA)
<leslieviljoen> ?
<leslieviljoen> yes, I don't want to clash with a future official package
<leslieviljoen> so is ubuntu1build1 > ubuntu1 and yet < ubuntu2 ?
<RainCT> leslieviljoen: seems so.  dpkg --compare-versions 0.9.0-10ubuntu2 lt 0.9.0-10ubuntu1build1; echo $?    1
<leslieviljoen> excellent
<RainCT> and I hate shells for using 0 as success code and 1 for failure.. :P
<POX> RainCT: urgency=medium - fixes RC bugs (including FTBFS); urgency=high - fixes security bug
<leslieviljoen> any tips on why dependencies fail, yet the build still works?
<leslieviljoen> I get "dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libexif-dev libpcre3-dev gtk-doc-tools"
<leslieviljoen> are these deps in error?
<leslieviljoen> oh, according to the ppa howto, my new version should be 0.9.0-10ubuntu2~ppa1
<pochu> leslieviljoen: it means you don't have those build-deps installed
<ScottK> I'd appreciate it if someone who speaks French and is somewhat clueful about working your way out of init script problems would have a look at Bug 296499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296499 in havp "E: /var/cache/apt/archives/havp_0.86-1ubuntu0.1_i386.deb: le sous-processus nouveau script pre-removal a retournÃ© une erreur de sortie d'Ã©tat 1" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296499
<leslieviljoen> pochu: I know, but it builds without them, so I'm wondering if they are wrong
<wgrant> leslieviljoen: It's not unlikely that it's now missing features.
<wgrant> Since configure will have failed to detectt EXIF or PCRE support.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, it's mostly "device busy" error
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you comment then?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, a simple translation is on bug report
<ScottK> Thanks
<DktrKranz> wgrant, I was succesful to have the most recent gcl built on i386 on my PPA, could you please try to build maxima on top of it?
<DktrKranz> (amd64 is on its way)
<wgrant> DktrKranz: Sure.
<DktrKranz> it hasn't published yet
<DktrKranz> just a matter of minutes
<wgrant> I'll grab it now anyway.
 * DktrKranz thinks it's not sufficient, but at least we have a gcl compiler
<DktrKranz> oddly, kernel issues just went away with no modifications at all
<wgrant> Damn gcl is huge.
<wgrant> And of course there's no local mirror for librarian.
 * wgrant waits.
<leslieviljoen> ah, I see
<DktrKranz> description is somewhat incomplete, I'll fix it if an upload to main archive is required
<wgrant> Right, download finished... let's see how maxima goes.
<DktrKranz> curiosity, how librarian works with PPAs?
<mok0> ScottK, I've looked at the french havp bug
<wgrant> DktrKranz: Like most other things in LP, PPA files are stored there, and you can get to them before they're published if you know how.
<DktrKranz> heh, I don't know how ;)
<DktrKranz> are librarian files consecutive?
<wgrant> Yes.
<ScottK> mok0: And?
<wgrant> This has been the source of a couple of very, very bad security vulnerabilities.
<wgrant> But it's convenient, because you just have to decrement the ID of the build log a view times, substitute in the binary name, and you'll find it.
<mok0> ScottK: It's problem in the init script
<wgrant> They used to be immediately prior to the build log, but it's a bit racy now, so they can be up to 10 before.
<wgrant> And they're normally in the order specified in the .changes, which you can see near the end of the build log.
<mok0> ScottK: It is a problem with the umounting of a loop back device.
<mok0> ScottK: I think the solution is to do a lazy umount, but I am not sure if that is kosher
<DktrKranz> ah, signed changes
<DktrKranz> didn't know binary packages uses the same rule
<wgrant> Hm?
<DktrKranz> PPA security vulnerability
<DktrKranz> .changes files were hidden
<DktrKranz> but easily discoverable
<wgrant> Right, that one, but not just that one.
<DktrKranz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19604372/gcl_2.6.7-45ubuntu1_i386.deb
<DktrKranz> cool
<wgrant> Yep.
<DktrKranz> amd64 built too
 * ScottK leaves to take daughter #3 to ballet lessons.
<ScottK> mok0: Would you be willing to follow up on that?  Sounds at least vaguely reasonable.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: You should ask NCommander to help you test gcl.  IIRC he loves that package.
<DktrKranz> I think he dislikes 14Mb .diff.gz
 * DktrKranz too
<leslieviljoen> the ppa howto here: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA?action=show&redirect=PPAQuickStart, gives instructions for building source packages with "debuild -S -sd". I'd like to build a binary package and upload that. Is that ok?
<mok0> ScottK: I am pretty sure the lazy umount will solve the problems. IMHO we need to avoid failures of maintainer scripts "at all costs" because they screw up the package system
<wgrant> Warning:
<wgrant> REQUIRE is being redefined.
<wgrant> Segmentation fault
<wgrant> How pleasant.
<wgrant> leslieviljoen: You cannot upload binary packages.
<DktrKranz> wgrant, in maxima? damn :)
<ScottK> wgrant: It's "OK" (we don't mind).  It just won't work (uploading binary packages).
<ScottK> ;-)
<wgrant> ScottK: True.
<wgrant> DktrKranz: Yep...
<DktrKranz> my change is a one-liner, but it chages how gcl works
<wgrant> I haven't got time to debug further this week or next.
<mok0> ScottK: I need an SRU for it
<DktrKranz> wgrant, did you testbuild in a pbuilder?
<wgrant> DktrKranz: No. On my bare system.
<DktrKranz> a jaunty one?
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> Wait.
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> Intrepid.
<DktrKranz> a-ha
<leslieviljoen> oh I see. But I see that I also cannot upload PPC packages to a PPA, since launchpad cannot build it
<wgrant> Oh, was that a Jaunty PPA package?
<DktrKranz> I test-built gcl on a pbuilder, on top of an intrepid box
<wgrant> I keep forgetting I'm not on the devel release yet.
<leslieviljoen> I'll have to find another place to put my packages
<DktrKranz> and gcl won't build
<DktrKranz> maybe pushing it on my pbuilder things are different
 * DktrKranz has a look
 * wgrant debootstraps.
<DktrKranz> wgrant, did you do changes, or just a plain merge?
<wgrant> DktrKranz: I just used the vanilla Debian source, as that was more likely to work.
<DktrKranz> ok
 * DktrKranz does a test-build on my PPA too
<jdong> haha this shouldn't see the light of day.
<jdong> a slightly modified markov-model-ish travesty generator ran on all the USNs I had on file
<jdong> it would probably be the security team's worst nightmare :D
<wgrant> Oh dera.
<wgrant> What does it say?
<jdong> wgrant: it rambles nearly coherent security bug descriptions, affected packages, md5sums, etc
<wgrant> Pastebin!
<jdong> roughly based off frequently used sentence structures in the existing notices
<wgrant> Yep, I know approximately how that works.
<mok0> Bug 296499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296499 in havp "E: /var/cache/apt/archives/havp_0.86-1ubuntu0.1_i386.deb: le sous-processus nouveau script pre-removal a retournÃ© une erreur de sortie d'Ã©tat 1" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296499
<mok0> This was converted to a question???
<jdong> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71118/
<wgrant> Ooh, crafted network cable.
 * RAOF perks up at mention of "nouveau", then realises that it's an ordinary error message in French.
<wgrant> Heh.
<jdong> wgrant: "Georgi Guninski discovered a predict the user were tricked into opening
<jdong> a malicious web page, an attacker could force a user or automated systems
<jdong> ack, nasty paste.
<jdong> using HTX allow an attackers may be able to see data from direct-IO subsystem
<jdong> did not properly processing a crafted FLV, MOV, RM, MVE, MKV or CAK file"
<jdong> that is a particularly good one. VLC meets Firefox :)
<kees> jdong: *rofl* this is great!
<jdong> :D I should be studying for a probability test, but I figured this is related to the course material ;-)
<kees> seems to be more heavily weighted to recent USNs?
<kees> hehe
<jdong> yeah I grabbed only a subset of the recent ones
<kees> jdong: I can provide you with _all_ of them, if you want.  :)
<jdong> kees: haha I'll fail my test for sure then ;-)
<kees> heheh
<kees> jdong: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/usndesc.txt.bz2 (for when your test is over...)
<DktrKranz> wgrant, maxima merge published on my PPA, building successfully for now
<wgrant> DktrKranz: Oh, excellent.
<DktrKranz> it builds since ten minutes now
<DktrKranz> so I guess it passed your FTBFS point
<DktrKranz> amd64 build was successful
<wgrant> Excellent!
<wgrant> What was the gcl change?
<DktrKranz> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19563782/gcl_2.6.7-45_2.6.7-45ubuntu1.diff.gz
<DktrKranz> locbfd by default
<DktrKranz> I discovered it some months ago while trying to fix axiom
<wgrant> Aha.
 * DktrKranz thinks rdepends must be rebuilt, that change is intrusive
<DktrKranz> If i386 build is fine too, mind checking it? I'll give a try to axiom and related, so we can have gcl finally fixed
<DktrKranz> i386 built \o/
<wgrant> Sure, testing.
<wgrant> What due locbfd do?
<wgrant> Er.
<wgrant> What *does*
<wgrant> I can't think.
<DktrKranz> I checked at the time, don't remember exaclty now
<DktrKranz> IIRC, it's something related to stack management
 * DktrKranz is off for the night, let's continue discussion tomorrow, hopefully with some uploads ;)
<wgrant> Night.
<wgrant> Thanks for fixing it.
<DktrKranz> it was on my list ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-13
<jdong> kees: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/usnramble.txt (WARNING: HUGE FILE)
<kees> jdong: *rofl*  so I guess it doesn't do highest-rated output? heheh
<wgrant> I think you need slightly longer chains.
<jdong> wgrant: that's what she said.
<jdong> I mean... working on it.
<wgrant> Some of it looks quite real.
<ajmitch> jdong: you were bored, I take it
<jdong> ajmitch: isn't that when I'm the most dangerous? :)
<jdong> Chuck McAuley reported that the
<jdong> security context of the function XULDocument.persist() did not sufficiently
<jdong> check the length of netbios packets
<ajmitch> that's when we start running for cover
<leslieviljoen> Ok, my packages are built!
<leslieviljoen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6163764#post6163764
<leslieviljoen> now I am a bit tired
<leslieviljoen> goodnight everyone and thanks for all the help!
<maco> i need some packaging help.  i ran debuild -S -sa and it failed saying secret key not available even though my private key is visible in Seahorse
<wgrant> maco: With an identical UID to that mentioned in your changelog?
<maco> wgrant: um, do you mean the email address listed?
<maco> yes, the email address used in debian/changelog is on my private key
<StevenK> maco: The full name, the comment and the e-mail address all need to match
<maco> the name and the email address do, though i dont believe the comment goes anywhere in debian/changelog
<StevenK> maco: Compare the uid lines from gpg --list-secret-keys to the Changed-By field in the .changes
<StevenK> They need to match exactly
<StevenK> If not, add -k<gpg id> to debuild
<maco> .changes?
<StevenK> maco: Yeah, such as krecipes_0.9.1-4_source.changes
<StevenK> maco: I'm not sure if debuild actually generates one, sorry.
<maco> the Changed-By field matches my uid
<StevenK> maco: If you're not sure, comparing what's in debian/changelog versus gpg --list-secret-keys should be fine
<maco> well, except for the comment
<maco> are you supposed to include the comment somewhere?
<wgrant> yes.
<maco> and yeah, now that you mention -k, i do recall having to specify my key id whenever the last time i made a package was
<wgrant> The strings must match precisely.
<maco> oh. where's the comment supposed to go? in changelog?
<StevenK> Because your key has a comment and your entry in debian/changelog doesn't.
<StevenK> maco: Your Name (Comment) <email@address.here>
<wgrant> The same place it goes in your secret key.
<maco> i just meant, is it supposed to go directly in changelog or is it supposed to be in some config file
<maco> but ok, sounds like you mean in the changelog
<maco> thanks guys
 * StevenK kicks nm-applet for hiding
<wgrant> StevenK: Probably means that NM isn't running.
<StevenK> root      5603  0.0  0.0  54652  1324 ?        Ss   Nov03   0:00 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
<StevenK> I ignore NM on this machine, so I suspect I told the applet to go away and stop bothering me, but now I want it back
<wgrant> What does nm-applet say if you run it in a terminal? The service is already taken?
<wgrant> Ah.
<StevenK> wgrant: Yup, the service is already taken
<wgrant> Is nm-applet already running, or is this a case of NM being crap like it is on one of my upgraded boxes?
<StevenK> It's running
<wgrant> Kill NM dead. /etc/init.d/NetworkManager stop might not kill it hard enough.
<wgrant> NM 0.7 can be very strnage....
<StevenK> My feeling is there might be a gconf key
<StevenK> Seems I'm wrong
 * StevenK gets out the Big Hammer
<wgrant> Which big hammer?
<StevenK> Killing NM dead
<wgrant> Ah.
<mok0> StevenK: yeah get rid of the mofo
<ethana2> How do I go about finding whether a given package has different versions in backports and proposed repos?
<ethana2> If this version of uvcvideo has an update in proposed, I may just want to enable those, and if it doesn't, I'll probably end up compiling the driver
<ethana2> ...but then, that's probably in some big package with all the other kernel drivers...
<psusi> question... isn't SIGHUP supposed to be sent to the processes attached to a pty whenever the master side is closed?  no matter how it is closed?
<psusi> for some reason it looks like SIGHUP is not sent to background processes when you exit from the shell, but IS if you close the terminal.. I could swear it should be sent no matter what causes the controlling process to exit
<sjdurfey> are there plans to update the version of Eclipse in the repos anytime soon? the repo is two releases behind
<nhandler> sjdurfey: 3.2.2-6.1 is in Debian unstable. We should probably have that in the repositories in the next few weeks. We just need someone to merge/sync it
<sjdurfey> why another 3.2? eclipse is on release 3.4
<nhandler> sjdurfey: I doubt that Debian will upgrade to 3.4 until after Lenny is released.
<sjdurfey> is there any particular reason for that?
<wgrant> Eclipse isn't known for being trivial to package, nor overly stable, I suspect.
<wgrant> And it's not likely to get a release freeze exception.
<sjdurfey> that makes sense
<ScottK> sjdurfey: If someone wanted to package 3.4 for Ubuntu, it's probably get in.  So far no one has.
<wgrant> I don't think we've got anybody strange enough to package Eclipse...
<sjdurfey> i dont have the slighest idea on how to package
 * ajmitch will refrain from putting his hand up for it
<ScottK> Right, well that's been the general consensus.
<sjdurfey> its so hard to package eclipse that no one will volunteer to do it?
<RAOF> Does eclipse still build the swt-gtk libraries that other java apps use?
<ScottK> It's not so much hard as unique and very resource intensive.  Last time I looked at it it wouldn't even compile on a box with less than (IIRC) 2GB of RAM.
<ScottK> RAOF: One way to find out ...
<sjdurfey> wow, thats a whole lot of ram
<ScottK> As I said, painful.  It might have been 1, not 2.  I don't remember for sure.
 * ScottK did some work on it about a year ago and learned his lesson.
<sjdurfey> haha
<sjdurfey> how is packaging done?
<ScottK> sjdurfey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<sjdurfey> thanks
<sjdurfey> wow, there is quite a bit to read there
 * ajmitch wonders why gcc just doesn't want to work in pbuilder on the laptop
<ajmitch> probably some package missing, but build-essential is there at leasy
<sjdurfey> hmmm, i found out what motu stands for, and im thinking learning how to package and helping where i can would be a great learning experience for me
<jmarsden> sjdurfey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<sjdurfey> thanks
<jmarsden> No problem :-)  There is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<sjdurfey> does a motu just deal with packages, or is there also coding going on as well?
<jmarsden> Fixing bugs => coding
<jmarsden> If you are a pure coder, there is Ubuntu Core Developer, the other tech role in Ubuntu...
<sjdurfey> yeah, im def. not to the point where i can contribute patches and what not. hopefully i will be, i just need to find the time
<jmarsden> Fixing documentation and packaging bugs is very much needed ... do what you can!
<sjdurfey> ill read the guides and what not to see what i can do to contribute, i very much want to be part of the open source community
<jmarsden> It's big enough that there's room for everyone, if you're willing to make the effort to actually contribute.  Writers, graphic artists, translators, ... lots of roles other than the traditional coder/developer/network admin stuff
<sjdurfey> i would like to stick with the coding, bug fixing, patching, etc. im a CS major and would def. love to learn more about coding for linux
<jmarsden> In that case... jump in :-)
<sjdurfey> i will, i guess school work will have to be pushed to the side a bit :P its keeping me from more important things
 * jmarsden graduated with a B.sc in Computing and Information Systems... back in 1983 :-)
<sjdurfey> mines going to be a B.A. i was originally a psych major so i had tons of arts & humanities built up when i switched to CS, so a B.A. would have been quicker to complete rather than a B.S.
<ScottK> Ohhh.  Someone even older than me ....
<bddebian> Watch it :)
<ajmitch> that cannot be possible!
<ScottK> Bah.  You youngsters.
<ajmitch> ScottK: don't worry, I saw a DD in the street yesterday, I think he's about 70+
<sjdurfey> DD?
<ajmitch> debian developer
<sjdurfey> ahhh ok
<jmarsden> sjdurfey: If you decide the MOTU path is the one you want to take there is a mentoring program you can use if you want... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<sjdurfey> ill look into that, thanks a lot. i think a mentoring program is a great idea for beginners! there is so much information out there it can be duanting
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm sure you remember the name philip charles
<ScottK> sjdurfey: Plus there are generally people here to answer questions.  The formal mentoring program is not at all required.
<ScottK> Feel free to roll up your sleeves, dive in and ask questions as they occur.
<AnAnt> persia: thanks !
<sjdurfey> thats awesome. i love how nice the people in the ubuntu chans are. i certainly cannot say the same for the programming channels however....
<sjdurfey> i listened to Jono Bacon give a speech about that very thing a couple months ago at the Ohio Linux Fest
<bddebian> ajmitch: Absolutely, I was just going to ask if that was who you were talking about :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hi Iulian
<\sh> moins
<iulian> 'ey
<iulian> Does anyone have any ideas why I get this lintian error: dpkg-awk: shell-script-fails-syntax-check ./usr/lib/awk/dpkg-awk.lib ?
<iulian> Running sh -n dpkg-awk.lib gives me dpkg-awk.lib: 34: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")
<iulian> But it doesn't seem right.
<iulian> dpkg-awk.lib file contains http://paste.ubuntu.com/71254/plain/
<jmarsden> iulian: Does running it with sh -nv help at all to see where the error is?
<huats> morning !
<iulian> jmarsden: Not really, this is what I got http://paste.ubuntu.com/71263/
<jmarsden> iulian: Me too, but that's not the 34th line according to http://paste.ubuntu.com/71254/ line numbering...
<jmarsden> iulian: I'm editing t down to try and find exactly what it complains about...
<iulian> jmarsden: Awesome, thanks a lot.
<jmarsden> iulian: The problem is the line:   option_parse(opt_list, opt_link, help, ARGC, ARGV)
<jmarsden> I think because option_parse has not been defined yet so the shell does not treat it as a function?
 * iulian is looking
<jmarsden> Yes, this line is being treated by sh as a function definition for option_parse but that would have syntax option_parse () stuff
<jmarsden> SO it complains about the missing closing )
<iulian> jmarsden: And how can I do that? My sh coding skills are awful.
<jmarsden> Mine are a bit rusty... I'm not sure what this is really trying to do... are we defining option_parse here, or calling it?
<iulian> Hmm, no idea.
<jmarsden> iulian: I think the scrpit may not really be an sh script... should the first line be #!/bin/awk  ??
<jmarsden> There is code here that does not look like sh code to me.
<iulian> Let me try that.
<jmarsden> The more I look at it the more I think this is awk code or something very like it.  But I've never programmed in awk :-)
<persia> Some parts look like awk, but some parts look like shell, which makes it extra confusing.
<jmarsden> Agreed.
<iulian> jmarsden, persia: It's indeed AWK code.
<iulian> Thanks a lot!
<jmarsden> So who or what put !#/bin/sh at the top of it?  :-)  Anyway, no problem, glad we figured it out.
<iulian> I've no idea ;)
 * jmarsden needs to get some sleep... goodnight all
<iulian> Sleep well, jmarsden.
<DktrKranz> wgrant: axiom is still racy with new gcl, pushing it won't harm too much, but it won't solve problems for every package, but at least it should for maxima.
<wgrant> DktrKranz: I haven't been able to test maxima too much today, but my first impression is that it's slightly broken in wxmaxima.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> And it doens't event start on the CLI.
<DktrKranz> my impression was right, then
<wgrant> It might well not be due to your gcl change, of course.
<DktrKranz> it took too fast to build
<wgrant> It seems to give the right results.
<Hobbsee> now, with a bit of luck, i won't get moderated...
<Hobbsee> ooh, i don't :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: added a bit to that u-d-d madness thread.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: oh dear
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's not that bad
<ajmitch> yes, yes it is!
 * ajmitch stabs flash, again
<ajmitch> having it crash firefox repeatedly is annoying
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it?
<Hobbsee> going OK
<Laibsch> Hi, I am trying to rebuild openoffice.org3 for hardy
<Laibsch> I believe "debuild -S" overflows /tmp
<Laibsch> http://rafb.net/p/8qQk5i67.html
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: yeah, you'd probably need a huge system to do that...
<Laibsch> line 19
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: I am using the PPA
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: not on that pastebin...
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: even building the source, i believe you need a pretty huge system. calc would know more.
<Laibsch> But just debuild -S seems to run out of space, I think probably on /tmp, although I can never catch it
 * Hobbsee wonders if your  /  ran out of space, too
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: I just want to package the unchanged source for uploading to my PPA
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: I have /usr/, /usr/src, /var and a bunch of other things on separate partitions
 * Hobbsee notes that's probably against the TOS?
<Laibsch> Building OOo on the PPA?
<Laibsch> I don't think so
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Why would uploading an unchanged source be against the TOS?
<Hobbsee> We will not accept uploads of packages that are unmodified from their original source in Ubuntu or Debian, only packages that include your own changes. We ask that people include useful changelogs for each package so that users and other developers can understand what new features they are exploring in their work. Read the PPA Terms of Use for more information.
<Laibsch> My quote was specifically enlarged so I can do this
<Hobbsee> FAQ on https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA?action=show&redirect=PPA#Frequently%20asked%20questions
<wgrant> Aha.
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: Well, I do rebuild debian experimental packages for hardy
<Laibsch> So, at least the changelog changes ;-)
<joaopinto> Laibsch, isn't there already an OOo PPA for Hardy ?
<Laibsch> I haven't heard anybody complain, yet
<Laibsch> Not that I am aware of
<Laibsch> There is one for intrepid
<Laibsch> We are talking about OOo3, not OOo2
<Hobbsee> Laibsch: either way, i'd expect you ran out of space on whatever partition has /tmp, so it died.  You'll need a machine with more space, most likely, to even rebuild the source.
<joaopinto> Laibsch, https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+archive
<joaopinto> ops, ignore me, intrepid only :P
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> I was aware of that group PPA
<Laibsch> Last I looked it had only Intrepid
<Laibsch> Seems to be still the case
<mok0> Hobbsee: Hmm, I have sometimes thought about using my PPA as a test build device before uploading to "the real thing"...
<ajmitch> talked to the people in the group about it?
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: I was wondering if there is no way to somehow get around that problem
<Laibsch> I have tmpfs and thus RAM/2
<Laibsch> Usually that is sufficient
<wgrant> mok0: I think that's reasonable.
<Hobbsee> mok0: I do that.  Of course, at that point, they're not unmodified from their ubuntu counterparts, because teh new ubuntu counterparts haven't been uploaded yet.
<wgrant> Laibsch: OOo is not in any way usual.
<Laibsch> ajmitch: Were you talking to me?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: ++
<ajmitch> Laibsch: yes
<mok0> Hobbsee: Heh, yeah
<Laibsch> What would that help?  I can build the source fine myself (and then possibly share my work with them)
 * Hobbsee thought you couldn't build the source by yourself, and this was the original problem...
<Laibsch> except for space constraints of course ;-)
<Hobbsee> right
<Laibsch> I prefer to be independent, here
<Laibsch> Well, I must have been able to pull it off once
<ajmitch> some coordination is useful, especially when you're about to DoS the PPA buildds
<Laibsch> I have rc2 source in my PPA
<Laibsch> ajmitch: That is not the case
<Laibsch> And as I said, the admins are aware of my activities
 * Hobbsee agrees with slangasek.  Open Office needs to be downsized to Open Cubicle.
<Laibsch> My quota was enlarged specifically for OOo builds
<Laibsch> Hobbsee: I hope that will eventually happen
<ajmitch> right, but the point still stands about some coordination of work being a Good thing
<Laibsch> Until then, lots of test builds by people like me will be needed
<Laibsch> ajmitch: I never questioned that
<Laibsch> And I am doing that
<Laibsch> Take a look at my profile: r0lf
<Laibsch> I'm not a loner
<Laibsch> But I'm impatient
<ajmitch> right, you had just said you wanted to be independent
<Laibsch> impatient -> wish for independency
<Laibsch> fix things myself, then feed them back
<Laibsch> better?
<Laibsch> coming back to my original question
<Laibsch> Is there no way to divert the tmpdir for a single command?  I think, earlier I "mount -o bind" /tmp to someplace else before "debuild -S"
<Laibsch> Works, but not really pretty
<Hobbsee> haven't seen anything to do it
<Hobbsee> man page doens't show anything of that nature.
<Hobbsee> james_w: I presume you're going to deal with rrdtool?
<Laibsch> rrdtool?
<Laibsch> I was just looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailgraph/+bug/221010
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Undecided,New]
<Laibsch> Should to be easy to backport the fixes to releases pre-hardy
<Laibsch> I was just about to try and prepare a debdiff for sponsorship
<Laibsch> When I fix that package, should I also fix small errors along the way, like updating the standards version to 3.8.0?
<Laibsch> Or should I rather prepare a minimally invasive debdiff?
<wgrant> Minimal, unless it's a package only in Ubuntu.
<NCommander> anyone from SRU awake?
<wgrant> dholbach: Finally!
<dholbach> wgrant: yeah
<wgrant> Although it would be nice to have component subscriptions directly in LP, this is nice.
<dholbach> it was partly my fault that this was stalled for so long - I wrestled with mailman a bit, gave up, tried again months later, gave up, then Barry told me that we need a handler installed, then it took him some time to work it out, then I was busy with other stuff, then I prodded the IS team and they were quite quick to sort it out
 * wgrant is a bit confused at 'IS' and 'quick' near each other.
<wgrant> But anyway, it's sorted out now. Good work.
<dholbach> that's what I want to avoid, that's why I said it
<dholbach> but yeah, I'm happy too that it's working now :)
<slytherin> Laibsch: your debdiff says distribution intrepid, shouldn't it read dapper-proposed? Also check version number.
<slytherin> Laibsch: and you don't want the fix for feisty, it is not supported anymore.
<Laibsch> slytherin: Thanks for taking a look
<Laibsch> The intrepid thing is certainly just a glitch
<slytherin> !sru | Laibsch
<ubottu> Laibsch: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Laibsch> feisty not supported anyomre?
<slytherin> Laibsch: no. it had only 18 months of support.
<slytherin> 7.04 + 18 is 8.10 :-)
<Laibsch> Well, I still see it on ubuntu.com
<NCommander> Sylphid, 7.04 + 18 is 25.04
<Laibsch> OK, must be a grace period, then
<NCommander> er, slytherin
<Laibsch> alright, feisty still supported, then
<NCommander> Laibsch, it's not
<NCommander> Laibsch, all SRU bugs for Feisty were declined
<NCommander> It just hasn't been archived yet
<slytherin> NCommander: I was talking about Ubuntu math. :-P
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> lol
<handschuh> hi. How does a revu-day work?
<handschuh> Do the users have to request a review or will all packages will be reviewed?
<RainCT> handschuh: Hey. Asking here for a review helps
<handschuh> RainCT: ok, thanks. I will ask tomorrow then.
<RainCT> handschuh: (you can also ask when it isn't REVU Day, btw)
<handschuh> RainCT: so whats different on REVU Day?
<persia> handschuh, On REVU day, more MOTU allocate time to do REVUs.
<handschuh> persia: ah, thanks
<handschuh> so as RanCT suggested: I would kindly ask to review two of my small libraries (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libauvitoapiaxis-java, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java) that are needed for a larger project of mine (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=jaolt)
 * RainCT notices that it's Friday already
<broonie> I wish :)
<persia> It's been Friday for almost 4 hours (at least in select parts of Kiribati)
<lifeless> 20 minutes
<lifeless> tick
<lifeless> tock
<lifeless> tick
<lifeless> tock
<RainCT> persia: I see.. UTC+14, nice
<RainCT> o.O there's UTC+12:45, UTC-3:30.. XDDD
<persia> RainCT, It mostly exists so that you can't get to tomorrow without leaving the country.
<RainCT> persia: Uhm.. How long is REVU Day then? 50 (24+12+14)?
<persia> When I was REVU Coordinator, I didn't know about UTC+14, and only ran it for 49 hours.  I'd suggest 50.
 * slytherin notices word java in the links pasted by handschuh 8-)
<handschuh> :-)
<Laibsch> slytherin: What is the problem with the version number?
<Laibsch> Should it have dapper in the version number?
<Laibsch> like 1.12-1~dapper1
<Laibsch> instead of 1.12-1ubuntu1 ?
<slytherin> Laibsch: No. I guess the version should be ubuntu0.1. Please confirm from someone in SRU team.
<Laibsch> ubuntu0.1 until it is officially uploaded?
<Laibsch> ping SRU team
<geser> Laibsch: are you preparing a SRU?
<Laibsch> Well, not sure if it actually is a real SRU
<Laibsch> But it is a patch for a package in dapper
<Laibsch> and others
<Laibsch> mailgraph
<Laibsch> The homepage has changed
<Laibsch> so, a rather simply and straight-forward change without regression potential
<Laibsch> geser: are you a member of the SRU team?
<geser> if you plan to get it to dapper-updates: the version should be  1.12-1ubuntu0.1 and the target in the changelog: dapper-proposed
<geser> Laibsch: no
<Laibsch> Alright
<Laibsch> Can you explain the reason for ubuntu0.1?
<slytherin> Laibsch: SRU is stable release update, no matter how small or bug the change is. Whether it will go in or not will be evaluated by SRU team. And since the package is in universe, it will be motu-sru.
<Laibsch> OK
<geser> Laibsch: the version should be larger than the current one and smaller than the one in $release+1 (which might have an "ubuntu1"), so usually "ubuntu0.1" is added
<Laibsch> hm, that leads to endless recursion, doesn't it?
<Laibsch> Let's say I did an SRU to hardy with ubuntu0.1
<geser> no, the next one would be ubuntu0.2 (which is still < ubuntu1)
<Laibsch> Then somebody else would do an SRU (unrelated) to gutsy again with ubuntu0.1
<Laibsch> Problem not solved
<RainCT> Laibsch: there are rules for this on the wiki
<Laibsch> So, I kind of fail to see the need for introducing 0.
<persia> Laibsch, No, they'd just have to pick a version string between the two.
<persia> Laibsch, It's a convention we follow, rather than a hard rule.  It makes the versions predictable, so we can use standard techniques to determine how to handle exceptions.
<Laibsch> persia: OK, so why is that not possible without introducing 0.1?  Right now there is no ubuntu1 package
<persia> (and the vast majority of packages won't have the same base version for both gutsy and hardy anyway)
<RainCT> Laibsch: using Xubuntu0.7.10.1,Xubuntu0.8.04.1, etc. for different releases is an option
<persia> Laibsch, It's not that it's not possible, it's that we have a convention we use.
<persia> The convention is to use .X to indicate SRU uploads.  When there isn't a base ubuntu variation, that becomes ubuntu0.X
<persia> (because we need to have the string "ubuntu" for a variety of reasons)
<Laibsch> I understand the reason for 0.1, but while that is mostly for cornercases, I don't think it catches them all, sort of invalidating the whole idea of it.  You get my point?
<persia> Laibsch, Yes, but that the system isn't complete doesn't mean it's not useful.
<Laibsch> persia: IOW, all packages ubuntuX where uploaded before the release was made public?
<persia> It's a very rare case that we SRU packages that have the same version in two different releases, especially for different issues.
<persia> Laibsch, huh?
<RainCT> Laibsch: if you do a SRU for a version 1.0-1 using 1.0-1.1 then this would be confusing as we would think that it's a NMU from Debian. So, naming it 1.0-1ubuntu0.1 makes it clear that it's a SRU or security upload
<persia> No, that indicates it was modified by someone for Ubuntu.
<Laibsch> But once the release is made, the thing becomes an SRU, right
<persia> The version string doesn't change between -proposed and -updates
<Laibsch> And then you are not allowed to use ubuntuX anymore, but use ubuntu0.X instead
<Laibsch> AFter release data
<Laibsch> date
<persia> Yes, after release date we use the .X notation to indicate a version change.
<Laibsch> Oh, wait a minute
<Laibsch> Does this 0.X thing also apply to gutsy?
<persia> Every change should be updated in the development repo first, so the changes in the .X versions don't contribute towards trunk.
<Laibsch> or would that be ubuntu1?
<persia> It applies to all types of SRU.
<persia> On the other hand, in the rare case that the version in gutsy is the same as the version in hardy, you need to work around it by picking different version numbers so gutsy < hardy < intrepid < jaunty continues to apply.
<Laibsch> OK, then in the general case it is $nothing, ubuntu1, ubuntu2, ... before release and ubuntu$i.1, ubuntu$i.2, ubuntu$i.3, ... for SRU uploaded after the release, right?
<Laibsch> public release
<persia> (in which case constructions like 0.1.7.04, 01..7.10, 01..8.04 can be useful.
<persia> Laibsch, Loosely, yes.
<Laibsch> alright
<persia> (although remember to upload to the new development release *before* the SRU)
<Laibsch> Intrepid is already fixed
<persia> That counts :)
<Laibsch> Closes: LP#221010
<Laibsch> correct format?
<persia> Don't use "closes:", that's for Debian.
<persia> Format is "LP: #nnnnnn"
<Laibsch> (LP:#221010)
<Laibsch> alright
<persia> Many people use parentheses after describing the specific thing changed.
<Laibsch> too complicated ;-)
<Laibsch> so many conventions
<persia> Most of them grew from problems we had in the past.
<Laibsch> understood
<Laibsch> bug 221010 looks OK now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/221010
<persia> Laibsch, Looks good.  I think I need to wait for someone from MOTU SRU to ACK before I can upload though.
<vorian> revu day huh?
<slytherin> RainCT: any idea why isn't .diff on revu opened inline in firefox?
<RainCT> slytherin: how big is it?
<slytherin> RainCT: 5KB
<slytherin> handschuh: ping
<Laibsch> slytherin: I think that is a FF "issue"
<handschuh> slytherin: pong ( did I miss something)
<Laibsch> I have worked around such things by installing an extension
<Laibsch> http://www.spasche.net/mozilla/
<slytherin> handschuh: not yet, I was reviewing libballoontip-java.
<RainCT> slytherin: not sure, perhaps there's something missing in Apache's config
<handschuh> slytherin: thank you (did you commet it already)
<slytherin> handschuh: not yet.
<slytherin> RainCT: may be you could return type as text/plain
<RainCT> slytherin: if this works, won't it break normal downloads (eg, with dget)?
<slytherin> RainCT: I am talking about just .diff, not .diff.gz.
<RainCT> slytherin: ah. what's a .diff?
<RainCT> :P
<slytherin> RainCT: I see both .diff and .diff.gz here - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java Is that something you haven't done. .diff contains extracted .diff.gz.
<RainCT> ah, didn't even know that XD  (/me isn't really familiarized with the post-upload scripts, yet)
<slytherin> handschuh: are you one of the upstream authors?
<handschuh> no
<handschuh> slytherin: if you complain about the missing licenses in the source-code; I already mailed to the upstream authors
<slytherin> handschuh: Good. I will still add that in comments so we have it on the record.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok thanks (I do forget things very fast, so this is a help)
<slytherin> handschuh: there you go. You have day's work ahead. :-)
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks a lot!  :-)
 * slytherin celebrates first revu review by eating an apple. :-)
 * RainCT gives slytherin MOTU rights and remembers that he should finally write a script to do this automatically
<RainCT> slytherin: and I don't get that stupid mimetype-file extension association working :S
<RainCT> s/don't/can't
<NCommander> RainCT, wait what?
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> NCommander: you remember me of popups *g*
<NCommander> no, I mean giving slytherin MOTU rights
<RainCT> NCommander: on REVU, that is
<RainCT> oh, he isn't a MOTU? o.O
<NCommander> Unless I missed a memo
<RainCT> I thought he was lol
 * RainCT undoes
<RainCT> NCommander: thx for catching this :P
<NCommander> We need a script that syncs up privilleges from LP
<RainCT> indeed. feel free to write it ;P
<NCommander> is the PPA importer active yet?
<RainCT> NCommander: there's no cronjob, if that's what you mean
<NCommander> any reason why that is the case?
<RainCT> NCommander: there's still no code to check if the package has build
<NCommander> I dunno if thats important unless we restrict upload rights to REVU
<RainCT> NCommander: the description shouldn't mention this if it isn't done
<RainCT> but I can set up the cronjob if you want
<NCommander> you have the source :-)
<RainCT> NCommander: one word: time *g*. I've been busy with school (and with trying weird stuff like writing something in C/C++ or getting my webcam to work with touchlib XD)
<slytherin> RainCT: NCommander: What is the code for revu written in?
<RainCT> slytherin: Python (and some bash)
<slytherin> hmm
<slytherin> some day ... :-(
<NCommander> I was going to say superglue and duct tape
<NCommander> RainCT, I think we need to pin the revu source repo
<NCommander> source packages from REVU replace packages from the repo
<RainCT> NCommander: then pin it in /etc/apt/preferences
<NCommander> But should that be the default behavior?
<slytherin> RainCT: You gave me MOTU rights? Is that the indication that I should apply for MOTU. :-D
<RainCT> NCommander: everyone is free to decide if he wants to pin it or not. -proposed isn't neither pinned by default
<NCommander> proposed isn't enabled by default.
<RainCT> NCommander: revu neither
<NCommander> toche
<RainCT> ^^
<ScottK> RainCT: Proposed porbably should be though.
<ScottK> porb/prob
<RainCT> slytherin: dunno, I'm not one of your sponsors :)
<iulian> NCommander: Hey, I already merged svk (see bug #297502), you obviously didn't see it. Bug 282793 was already fixed in Debian as well so all we needed to do is to merge.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297502 in svk "Please merge svk 2.0.2-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297502
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282793 in svk "Unsatisfied dependencies in SVK" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282793
<slytherin> RainCT: Was just kidding. I am planning to apply before year end. :-)
<NCommander> iulian, lol
<slytherin> \sh: ping
<NCommander> iulian, I did get the fix into proposed
<iulian> NCommander: Yes, I can see that. The only Ubuntu change is the fix for tab completion.
<iulian> NCommander: OK, I will close the bug I reported then.
<NCommander> iulian, no, don't
<NCommander> iulian, the bug will be autoclosed once the fix is accepted into intrepid <g>
<slytherin> handschuh: most of the comments about balloontip apply to your other package as well.
<NCommander> iulian, if you wish to redo the merge, your welcome to dit
<NCommander> iulian, I'll sponsor
<slytherin> handschuh: if you plan to package many java packages, make cdbs your friend. Life will be easier.
<handschuh> slytherin: damn ... I wanted to skipp this  ;-)
<slytherin> handschuh: skip what?
<handschuh> slytherin: cdbs
<iulian> NCommander: Well, I don't think it's worth it. Next time we'll just drop your change (which is in Debian as well) and keep the tab completion fix.
<slytherin> handschuh: It is really easy once you get to know it. :-)
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, I will give it a try
<handschuh> slytherin: you don't need to add this onto the other packages
<handschuh> slytherin: I will use the libballoontip as a template for the other ones
<slytherin> handschuh: yes, I am not adding any comments to other.
<ScottK> When you call your ISP and say, "I'm having trouble with DNS." and they say "What's that?", I have a feeling it's not a good thing.
<_ruben> ouch :p
<handschuh> slytherin: one question is left: I have a package that original source package is just a plain wsdl file ...
<iulian> ScottK: It happend to me too.
<handschuh> slytherin: is there a get-orig-source rule needed?
<slytherin> ScottK: The word 'that' refers to 'trouble' or 'DNS' ? :-P
<ScottK> DNS
<slytherin> handschuh: yes very much.
<ScottK> Turns out I hadn't actually reached tech support, so I haven't abandoned all hope yet.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, but what about its license ... it is not written in the wsdl-file but in a seperate website
<ScottK> "If you want, we can arrange for someone to call you back?" - Like I'm going to fall for that trick.
<slytherin> handschuh: I haven't ever packaged a wsdl file. So can't really comment on that. Why are you packaging wsdl file by the way?
<handschuh> to create the java beans from it on compile
<\sh> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> \sh: I wanted to discuss the jigdo debdiff you sponsored. But got to go home. Will ping later.
<iulian> NCommander: Anyway, the tab completion patch was already forwarded to Debian so that we can sync next time. It seems that the maintainer doesn't look at his bugs which is a bad thing :\
<\sh> slytherin: when I'm not responding...tomorrow morning again...:)
<slytherin> handschuh: hmm, it has been really long time since I did anything with wsdl.
<slytherin> \sh: tomorrow then.
<\sh> slytherin: cool :)
<ScottK2> Anyone got a DNS server I can use?
<broonie> For what?
<RainCT> ScottK2: 212.73.32.3  212.73.32.67  but that's faaar away from you :P
<ScottK2> Probably better than what I got right now.
<ScottK2> broonie: ISP DNS is very flacky.
<broonie> Ah, I tend to install bind locally when I need to work around that.
<handschuh> slytherin: you can create the java classes to call the webservice directly from its wsdl-file
<ScottK2> Yeah, they're generally very reliable, so I'm unprepared.
<RainCT> ScottK2: OpenDNS may also be an option
<ScottK2> RainCT: Thanks.
 * ScottK2 jumps off IRC so parts/joins don
<ScottK2> don't get too anoying.
<\sh> jdong: are you filing the sync for fpc?
<RainCT> OT, anyone knows what "being down the rabbit hole" means? (they say this at the start of the Matrix on Win video)
<jdong> \sh: not that I know of; I really don't have any knowledge of fpc/pascal and would rather have someone with familiarity deal with it
<\sh> jdong: k...I'll take it then
<jdong> I only got involved because someone had what looked like a trivial patch to fix a bug
<jdong> thanks, \sh :)
<\sh> RainCT: alice in wonderland
<RainCT> \sh: d'oh! thx
<\sh> RainCT: could be wrong though, but the last I remember of matrix (orig) was that many statements made by morpheus were coming from alice in wonderland ;)
<ScottK2> RainCT: Much better (even far away).  Thanks.
<persia> \sh, Your understanding matches mine.
<persia> RainCT, Might also reference a Siouxsie Sioux lyric.
<\sh> RainCT: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/trivia :)
<\sh> "The film pays a huge homage to Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland", although there are also references to Marx, Kafka, Zen and Homer's Odyssey. One of the main featured works of literature is "Simulcra and Simulation" by the French philosopher Jean Baudrillaud. The book can be seen lying open in Neo's apartment and was required reading for all the principal cast and crew."
<RainCT> OK, thanks all :)
<sylvaing> hi i have some problem on upgrade script for mysql database (myisam to innodb) to obm-storage package. because of bug of mysql the upgrade script crash ramdomly. So i would like know if in packaging i must use while pattern, while pattern on 10 try or do not make upgarde on packaging?
<persia> sylvaing, The while script to try 10 times sounds like an awful hack.  Better to test if it was successful, and if not, try something differently.  Much better to fix the relevant mysql bug so you don't have to work around it.
<jdong> we use this script in our packaging?
<gnomefreak> any reason universe-bugs-owner@lists.ubuntu.com gets the merge requests for Lp branches to ~ubuntu-dev branches? it auto rejects atleast my request but shouldnt at all ubuntu-dev and lp branches are not related
<sylvaing> persia: yes it's an awfull hack, the mysql bug is the following : the sql update script add foreign keys on existing tables with the Alter table instruction. There is a lot of alter table .. add constraint..  in this script, and once in a while, the innodb engine return a random error on a random line
<sylvaing> jdong: now no, but i work on futur upstream version of obm
<persia> gnomefreak, ubuntu-dev is very closely related to ~ubuntu-dev branches.
<gnomefreak> persia: but the mailing list should not reject merge requests at all its missleading
<gnomefreak> asac: got the request but i got reject email
<gnomefreak> mailing list should take all or take none
<persia> sylvaing, Well, I still think that if you7re encountering issues you'd do best to understand where you had a failure, rather than just blindly trying again.  Even if it's just a timing issue, there are ways to bundle the commands to be sane, and detect the difference between a successful transaction and an unsuccessful transaction.
<persia> gnomefreak, That would make sense, but it's complicated.  It was only yesterday that that list was able to properly accept all bugmail.
<gnomefreak> persia: maybe fixed in future?
<persia> Essentially, LP pretends to be sending from the person who requested the merge, rather than from LP, so it needs whitelisting, except that the list wants to avoid whitelisting everyone, to avoid spam.
<persia> gnomefreak, Maybe.  If you've good ideas about how to fix it, I'm sure that those who manage the systems would be interested.
<gnomefreak> than maybe make a Lp mailing list for these?
<gnomefreak> that way its all inside LP persia ?
<persia> That wouldn't help, and in fact, be less good, as there's no way to moderate an LP list easily, and no way for non-members to join a list.
<ScottK> So either I'm to believe that my router spontaneously picked a new primary and secondary DNS for me or the ISP changed it without telling me.
 * ScottK is voting for #2, but who knows.
<persia> ScottK, What OS do you run on your router?  Is it one that permits vendor updates?  Was there a DNS server update recently?  If the answer to the latter two aren't yes, it's very likely the latter.
<persia> s/.$/ of your presented options./
<ScottK> I don't think it allows vendor updates, but I also got it from the ISP and it's a customized version.
<ScottK> All's well that ends well I guess.
<persia> Well, if it's from the ISP, #1 and #2 are the same :)
<ScottK> True.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<james_w> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libtuxcap looks like it shouldn't be "Needs Work"
<james_w> is there a way to undo that?
<persia> No simple way : it's a side effect of the test for the email feature.
<persia> Essentially, any comment by a reviewer is considered a rejection.
<persia> siretart, Do you need that comment?  Maybe it could be removed from the DB?
<siretart> do I need what comment?
<nxvl> NCommander: k, ACK'd
<persia> siretart, The last comment at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libtuxcap
<persia> Essentially, it's marking the package rejected, which is counter to the "please ignore" part.
<siretart> woah, that was ages ago, no?
<siretart> no, i don't need that comment
<persia> Are you able to delete it?
<siretart> not easily, not right now
 * persia doesn't know precisely how to do so, and fears breaking things
<persia> RainCT, Are you around?  Could you delete the comment?
<ScottK> Wouldn't it be simplest for him just to upload it again.
<persia> ScottK, Who?  The original packager?
<ScottK> Anyone really.
<ScottK> At least anyone who's got authority to upload a package.
<persia> Well, best to be someone not ubuntu-dev, as uploads by ubuntu-dev has different status.
<ScottK> AFAIK REVU works off of who's in debian/changelog, not the key.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> Oh, you're right.
 * persia double-checks the code
<ScottK> Of course now that ubuntu-dev uploads get treated differently, that might be considered a weakness in the system.
<persia> Well, it's usually expected that the ubuntu-dev who uploaded will push to NEW, which protects against that to some degree, but that's an interesting point.
<persia> Yep.  You're right.  It checks the signature of .changes to make sure the upload is OK, and then trusts changed-by
<persia> Nope I'm wrong.  It does look at the uploading user (and now I feel like I should find a problem with the package to again reject it)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<ScottK> OK.  I guess it got changed at some point.
<persia> Unfortunately, from a quick review of the code, it looked like you were right the first time, although it's not bad that I review it: I did mean to do some REVU today.
<RainCT> persia: Yep. Can't you remove comments yourself?
<persia> RainCT, I don't know how, but don't bother deleting it now.  I've already made a mess.
<persia> RainCT, I believe I'd have to dig out the password for the DB, and then run the DB client, and mangle stuff.
<RainCT> persia: admins have a "delete" link  next to each comment
 * persia feels especially abashed, and needs better eyes.
<persia> I don't support you could do something so that I wasn't usually logged out of REVU when I click a link?
<persia> s/support/suppose/
<persia> Anyway, this package hasn't had a review in a while, and probably deserves one anyway.
<RainCT> persia: My attempt to fix the sessions didn't work. I think I'll ask on the mod_python ML tomorrow or so (I've to study now)
<persia> RainCT, Thanks.  Doing it now isn't essential, but it would likely reduce my confusion level :)
<mok0> I lost my "paste-on-middle-mouse-button" on the upgrade to Intrepid... any suggestions on how to get it back??
<persia> mok0, Which flavour?
<mok0> persia: I run KDE
 * persia isn't sure how mouse properties are set in KDE
<ScottK> mok0: You're welcome in #kubuntu-devel.
<mok0> ScottK: Oh, thanks, but we're having dinner soon. I will come later though
<ScottK> OK.
<Romario> hello folks, i am using the perlmagick package in one of my programs. Today one of my users contacted me complaining about some errors related to my program. after some research i've found out that the package graphicsmagick-libmagick-dev-compat is the culprit because it provides perlmagick as well. can anybody help me in this case?
<Romario> i am not sure if this package should really provide perlmagick because it is a package of graphicsmagick (imagemagick fork)
<Romario> and there seem to be some incompatibilites
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me how can I attach a file to a debian bug?
<NCommander> slytherin, attach it to your email.
<slytherin> NCommander: Ok.
<mrooney> Does anyone know a simple python package I could check out with a setup.py? I am looking for an example of how to make mine, where to put the binary, desktop file, etc
<slytherin> NCommander: Can I do it at the time of submitting the bug?
<NCommander> slytherin, yeah
<persia> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<mrooney> thanks persia I will see if that can assist me
<persia> mrooney, Once of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Reference%20Packages ought be a good choice.
<persia> s/Once/One/
<slytherin> persia: Do we usually sync packages from experimental?
<geser> slytherin: default is to sync from unstable but it's possible to sync from experimental on request
<slytherin> geser: Ok. Was thinking about syncing batik/fop from experimental. But just found few problems and reported them. I will wait for these packages to enter unstable.
<persia> slytherin, I'd recommend only doing so post-DIF or if there's some special reason.  Especially with the Lenny freeze, experimental is full of stuff that will drop into unstable and get autosynced (unless you're syncing over Ubuntu variation).
<geser> slytherin: it's possible that it only get into unstable after the lenny release
<slytherin> persia: My main purpose is to drop Ubuntu changes. But as I said I will wait for them to enter unstable.
<ScottK> The key with Experimental is to understand why something is in Experimental.
<geser> and there is currently still(?) a discussion about non-free firmware in Debian main ongoing which might delay the release
<persia> slytherin, In the case of syncing to drop Ubuntu changes, pulling from experimental sounds useful to me, although as ScottK points out, understanding is key.
<mrooney> persia: thanks for the links, the jokosher package looks like a great reference for a setup.py!
<NCommander> hola DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> hey NCommander
<NCommander> DktrKranz, are you running intrepid?
<DktrKranz> jaunty, but I've VM
<NCommander> DktrKranz, want to test svk in proposed (it makes it installable)
<DktrKranz> does it need GUI? or just CLI?
<slytherin> persia: right. I have understood it now when I tested fop. :-)
<slytherin> NCommander: I am running intrepid. If all I need to test is if it installs or not then I can try. Of course if download size is more than 5 MB then not.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, CLI
<NCommander> slytherin, its small, but it pulls in a good chunk of perl modules deps
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'll fire up a chroot then
<NCommander> cool
<DktrKranz> bug number?
<bmm> Any MOTU: I will happily accept any comment on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink :)
 * persia rejects metalink
<slytherin> persia: why?
<persia> I'm writing that up now :)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, anyway, it's still building, so I need to postpone testing
<superm1> i clearly haven't been to revu in a while.  it looks nice and useful now :)
<persia> bmm, Commented.
<slytherin> NCommander: tell me bug number
<bmm> persia: cool, thanks!
<DktrKranz> slytherin, still building, you can't test it for now
<slytherin> oh, ok
<persia> bmm, It's looking better.  #1 is probably just a side effect of earlier adjustments, #2 is minor.  #3 needs a bit of upstream work, and #4 should be trivial.
<bmm> persia: already on it, I'll let you know if I hit any walls ;)
<persia> bmm, OK.  I'm a big believer in lots of eyes, so I'll recommend you get someone else for the next look.
<bmm> persia: will do
<slytherin> persia: pm?
<sebner> persia: what do you think about point 6?
<persia> sebner, -ECONTEXT
<sebner> persia: /me likes that -E stuff :P, metalink, first comment, point 6
<persia> sebner, That's been fixed.
<sebner> persia: I know but what do you think about this point? I've had a discussion if that's: a must have, optional, nonsense
<persia> I believe the short description should complete the sentence "$(package) is a $(short description)." which would make it redundant.
<sebner> persia: so more like a "must have" right?
<sebner> persia: you might also have seen this point in my REVU example revie
<sebner> +w
<bmm> persia: thanks for the comments. I've posted the licensing problem upstream and went with debhelper 7, removed TODO and NEWS but left README because it contains the caveats description.
<sebner> bmm: if you don't need dh7 you should use a lower version to make backporting easier
<sebner> it seems you don't use any of it's features (e.g debian/rules)
<persia> bmm, My apologies if I included README.  I thought that was end-user interesting.
<persia> bmm, Also, although I haven't looked, I agree : either use the debhelper 7 features, or don't require it.
<sebner> persia: though the backporting argument isn't that valid anymore. it's not very likely to backport from jaunty to hardy since intrepid has debhelper7
<bmm> sebner: backporting shouldn't make a difference, as debhelper 7 has been backported. So dh7 should work, even when backporting.
<bmm> sebner: but you are right about the features not being used.
<persia> sebner, Well, it's as valid as it's ever been.  To me, it's that one should declare the version of debhelper one actually uses, rather than some random version because it seemed like a good idea.
<bmm> persia: you didn't include README inthe comment, I just mentioned it as it was the last file left.
<persia> bmm, Good.  I was afraid I made a mistake :)  Keeping README is essential for users to be able to understand the limitations.
<sebner> persia: of course it makes no sense to use debhelper 7 if you don't use it's features but besides backporting issues were always a top argument
<bmm> I must admit that I'm not really sure about the whole debhelper verioning. Isn't using a higher version also showing that your package has no problems with the new features?
<ScottK> We have debdhelper 7 in hardy-backports.
<persia> sebner, To me it's always been about accuracy, rather than backporting.  Declaring >=5 and then using dh_iconcache is just as bad as declaring >= 7 and not using 7's features.
<ScottK> bmm: It's the opposite.  Using the lower version to say you don't require the newer features.
<bmm> ScottK: it's not about backporting anymore, it's about wether you use a higher version when you don't use the new features :)
<ScottK> And persia is correct about that.
<ScottK> You should describe the minimum version required for your package given the debhelper features you use.
<persia> bmm, It's never been about backporting.  It's always been about accuracy.  Declare what you need to build.  Declare it accurately.  The rest is unimportant.
<sebner> persia: hehe, I know what you mean. personally I started with 5 as lowest but I can remember merges that FTBFS because of dh_iconcache =)
<sebner> persia: btw, does lintian still complains about dh7 (about missing things in debian/rules)?
<bmm> sebner: no
<bmm> sebner: I've just uploaded dh7 onto revu and the lintian is clean :)
<sebner> bmm: no I mean a dh7 debian/rules file. that uses it's minimalistic style
<bmm> sebner: ah, then I don't know :)
<bmm> persia: I'm reading the debhelper manual and it seems like I can just use v4. Should I try that?
<bmm> Hmmm... the debhelper manual state that "V7" is the "recommended mode of operation".. I'm only getting more and more confused here :S
<persia> bmm, Check the debhelper changelog carefully, but maybe.  Most people don't like to go below 5 because 5 made several things easier.
<persia> V7 is recommended, but not required.  If you want to use the older debhelper, it's OK, but it will get out of date sooner.  If you want to use V7 that's OK, but you should use it.
<bmm> persia, then I should just go with 5 as a minimum version and up as the features require me to. Ok, sounds good. I'll change to 5 and do a pdebuild check.
<pochu> V4 isn't deprecated yet...
<bmm> pochu: no, but it will be sooner then 5, so that is the main reason to go with 5.
<pochu> ah, 5 is fine :)
<bmm> good... finally... yes.... 5 it is :D
<persia> 6 or 7 is also fine: it's mostly a matter of how you want to do your package.
<sebner> dh-make automatically uses 5 it has to be fine :P
<leonel> ScottK: make a single  diff  for all the patches ???
<sebner> persia: I suppose between 5->6 happened that much?
<pochu> I'd only go for 6/7 if I'm using new features from them
<pochu> If not, I'd go with 5
<bmm> pochu, thanks! Then I'm  still sticking with 5 for my new upload
<sebner> persia: * not that much
<sebner> bmm: it's fine
 * mok0 thinks you should use the minimum required compat number
<persia> sebner, Read the changelog.  There were lots of good improvements, like better mkshlibs support, dh_icons, dpkg triggers, --ignore, dh_desktop becoming sane, dh_installudev stuff, etc.  The basic format of debian/rules didn't change though.
<sebner> persia: I see, thx
<persia> I'd not want to do a GUI app with less than dh6, as it means careful checking to make sure one gets the right version of dh5.
<rrittenhouse> I have a question it seems nobody knows anything else about. If I go to "Places --> Connect to Server" and I connect to my webserver (which I use an ssh key to access with user www-data) I am not able to create folders or even edit anything because it mounts as read only. Any ideas before I file a bug report?
<joaopinto> rrittenhouse, this is the wrong channel to ask, ask on #ubuntu
<rrittenhouse> Sorry. I understand it's the wrong channel but it just seems nobody really knew the answer so I thought someone here might have more experience with it or maybe have ran into it.
<joaopinto> rrittenhouse, I didn't saw your question there :)
<rrittenhouse> I've been asking for 3 days :D
<joaopinto> and I don't see much sense on assuming the 200 users here have more experience with nautilus/ssh than the 1500 there :)
<persia> rrittenhouse, #ubuntu-bugs is probably a better place to ask where to file a bug.  I'd personally select gvfs as a starting point.
<rrittenhouse> Maybe thats the problem.. too many people lol
<mok0> rrittenhouse: perhaps your webserver is exporting its filesystem readonly
<joaopinto> persia, you are assuming that it is a bug, and not lack of understanding on how privilege works :)
<mok0> rrittenhouse: It's most likely not a bug
<persia> joaopinto, Yep.  I always assume it's a bug.
<rrittenhouse> That's why I don't want to file a bug report. The perms appear to be correct though.
<joaopinto> I always assume is an user error, statistically they are more than bugs :P
<rrittenhouse> I can do it through the terminal just fine. It's the nautilus thing that can't do it :P
<joaopinto> rrittenhouse, have you searched on launchpad ?
<joaopinto> (if you believe it's a bug)
<mok0> or Ubuntu Forums
<rrittenhouse> I've searched LP and Google, and UF. My friend and I have both had this problem even in Hardy. Besides in hardy you could edit the files and not create any dirs. Now you can't do either!
<joaopinto> rrittenhouse, maybe it's bug 244779 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244779 in gvfs "permission denied when removing a directory via SSH" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244779
<handschuh> why do I have to specify JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD when using cdbs and the ant.mk ?
<persia> handschuh, Because we've not yet reached the point of having one true Java in Ubuntu.
<handschuh> persia: but why doesn't it use the default one if specifyed in system?
<persia> handschuh, Because there isn't a default one specified on the buildds in a sane way.
 * laga has had his share of making eclipse use the correct JVM today
<persia> laga, You're tackling the new upstream?
<handschuh> persia: well as it is an ant class why dont you let ant decide
<persia> handschuh, Well, sometimes it doesn't decide in the way you want (see note above about eclipse)
<handschuh> persia: eclipse has a strange start-script, thats it  anyways do I really HAVE to use cdbs?
<persia> handschuh, No.  Some people find it easier.  Our currently most active Java maintainer (slytherin) is one of them.
<handschuh> persia: slytherin told me to use it so it seems I have to use it
<laga> persia: no, just doing development on hardy and intrepid
<laga> persia: java development*
<persia> handschuh, It's a choice.  Slytherin recommends using it, but if you really don't want to, that's OK as well.
<laga> handschuh: ... and the startup script for eclipse is full of crack, at least in hardy.
<persia> laga, Ah.  I was hoping.  There's two big names in Java environments, and currently we're well out of date on one of them.
<laga> eclipse is outdated, but i'm not sure how bad it is
<handschuh> laga: here is no real debian package of eclipse ... otherwise they would have used "update-alternatives" in their script
<handschuh> slytherin: ping
<miik> when nvidia 177.82 in repo?
<miik> yo dudes put firefox 3.0.4 in the repo
<laga> handschuh: so the ubuntu maintainer broke it? ;)
<persia> miik, You may be better served by investigating the relevant packages, and sending appropriate patches to achieve the results you want to the frequent uploaders of the packages that interest you in bug reports.
<handschuh> laga: he just has not fixed this
<laga> handschuh: where does the package come from?
<miik> persia, you say nobody will put 3.0.4 in repo????????? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr
<handschuh> laga: i think its a sync from debian
<miik> and about 177.82, what if it dont come, and then my 177.80 dont work with new kernel -8 ?
<persia> miik, No, I'm saying that "yo dudes put firefox 3.0.4 in the repo" doesn't help achieve that goal.
<miik> oh
<miik> well, can you put 3.0.4 in repo, please?
<pwnguin> miik: why the repo?
<persia> miik, Thanks for that, but it's not about being polite, it's that the work needs doing :)
<pwnguin> someone already publishes 3.1
<pwnguin> in a ppa
<miik> pwnguin, so it can fall from there into my computer
<miik> persia, well someone packaged 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.0.2, 3.0.3, etc there must be an automated script that does it
<persia> miik, There are scripts, but no, it's not automatic.  You're seeing the results of human effort.
<miik> what is it that human does?
<miik> it should be fully automated scripted
<pwnguin> only if you want it to fail fully automatically
<persia> miik, The humans make sure it's not broken before deploying it to millions of users.
<miik> persia, well there should be some automatic QA too
<miik> though, its good with human look at it too
<persia> miik, There is automated QA, but it's not considered sufficient.
<persia> That's why I suggested you could help.  The more people who help, the faster the QA can be done, and the sooner things reach the repos.
<pwnguin> there's also the mozilla branding dilligence
<pwnguin> i dont recall what the terms were
<miik> ok, how i can help?
<pwnguin> well 1, join the right channel ;)
<pwnguin> #ubuntu-mozillateam
<miik> aye
<miik> when nvidia 177.82 in repo?
<handschuh> finally I am using cdbs, but I am getting the following error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71519/  (line 60 ist important)
<azeem> handschuh: it's better to set LANG to C if you want help from non-germans as well
<handschuh> azeem: how to?
<directhex> LANG=C before doing things?
<persia> miik, I think the nvidia drivers are pulled by jockey.  I'm not sure whether it needs an adjustment to jockey directly, or to some online DB.  You'd probably do best to check the jockey code, and then either offer to help the local package or upstream point at the new drivers.
<azeem> handschuh: pastebin your debian/control
<superm1> persia, i think it's just a matter of whether 177.82 goes into proposed or backports at this point
<superm1> once it's updated for jaunty of course
<wgrant> persia: It actually just needs the new driver package. I heard it was going into backports, but it's still undecided.
<handschuh> directhex: thx -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/71524/
 * persia doesn't keep track of these things, and appreciates the data.
<persia> My goal was mostly just pointing towards things that might be more helpful than asking for an update.
<miik> im using proprietary nvidia driver, but my jockey is empty :s
<pwnguin> i never see a lot of nvidia on the ubuntu-x channel; so i guess tseliot mainly inherited that mess
<tseliot> pwnguin: yes, I did
<tseliot> milk: try installing nvidia-common
<superm1> crimsun, how were the defaults for the various mixers (front, master, pcm) chosen to be set at 80%?  was it an arbitrary selection?
<azeem> handschuh: eh, did you see what I suggested?
<pwnguin> superm1: i would be amazed if there was some formula that worked out to exactly 80 percent ;)
<handschuh> azeem: sry overred -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/71526/
<azeem> that's not a debian/control
<handschuh> azeem: again, i am sorry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71528/
<azeem> but anyway, I guess you're missing at least one code CDBS class, like debhelper.mk
<azeem> s/code/core/
<azeem> cause besides ant running install, nothing else being done, like the creation of a .deb
<superm1> crimsun, pwnguin,haha. well i guess a better way to put it, was there a lot of experimentation done to determine 80% was optimal?  It seems that a lot of the mixers i've seen that have a front and master, setting front to 100 but leaving others at 80 gives a better starting result particularly because then the hotkeys can adjust the volume range to it's full potential
<azeem> handschuh: why the Conflicts: gij?
<handschuh> azeem: great hint! thanks a lot
<handschuh> azeem: because it wont run on gij (swing)
<azeem> handschuh: are you aware that this means none of your users can install any gij-using application then?
<handschuh> azeem: yes I am ... I havn't found an other way
<azeem> handschuh: what is the error message when gij is installed?
<handschuh> azeem: it will show no error ... but it will also show no jframe
<azeem> and shouldn't there be a more specialized dependency for swing than just java5-runtime?
<handschuh> azeem: the problem is that gij claims to provide java5-runtime
<azeem> is swing part of java5-runtime?
<handschuh> azzem: on openjdk-jre and the sun jre it is
<azeem> did you try with libswt3.2-gtk-java or so?
<handschuh> azeem: because it does not depend on swt
<azeem> handschuh: that wasn't the question; I assume "java5-runtime" is a well-defined set of things
<azeem> handschuh: well, I suggest you ask one of the Ubuntu java experts
<handschuh> azeem: unfortunatly there is no such thing as a "java5-runtime-swing"-package
<azeem> how about depending on a specific java5-runtime which supports swing then
<handschuh> azeem:that was forbidden
<azeem> by whom?
<handschuh> by slytherin
<azeem> did you tell slytherin that you're conflicting with gij?
<handschuh> did not
<azeem> it looks like the wrong solution to me
<handschuh> well ... it half is bad and half is good because cij and swing is a real pain
<azeem> isn't gij useful for other stuff besides swing?
<handschuh> maybe
<handschuh> but if gij is declared as the default jre, gij will try to start a gui
<handschuh> wich fails quite often
<handschuh> e/wich/which
<handschuh> assuming that the user has no jre installed and wants to install the library I am working on, apitude might offer gij to be installed
<handschuh> that is what i want to prevent
<azeem> handschuh: 23:18 < azeem> handschuh: well, I suggest you ask one of the Ubuntu java experts
<handschuh> azeem: will do that!
<azeem> handschuh: having alternatives in there should probably be fine, like openjdk-jre | java5-runtime
<handschuh> azeem: thanks again for helping me with my rules file
<handschuh> azzeem: that might work!
<handschuh> -z
<persia> handschuh, Be warned that for several architectures, there is no openjdk, so it needs to use gcj.
<handschuh> persia: hm.
<handschuh> persia: is there a tag "works sometimes with"? :-)
<leslieviljoen> Hi everyone! My powerpc packages for Thunar seem to be preventing the segfault problem. I have uploaded them to mediafire, but how would one get fixed packages distributed via "apt-get upgrade" for powerpc? Mediafire is a pain. I am thinking of making a website for them, but the apt repos are really the proper place.
<persia> No, although one can set architecture-specific dependencies if needed.
<persia> Generally it's best to depend on the default, and work to make sure the default does what is needed.
<azeem> this is an Arch: all package
<persia> leslieviljoen, Create a debdiff, attach it to a bug describing the problem in detail, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.  Someone will probably tell you to fix several things, and it can be included.
<persia> azeem, Yes, but it may not work with the same set of dependencies on all architectures, because the architectures have different sets of JREs available.
<persia> azeem, It's about ensuring the package has the right environment for each architecture, even though the package itself is unchanged.
<azeem> right, but how do you express arch-specific Depends for an arch: all package?
<leslieviljoen> I'd ask how to create a debdiff, except that there is no source change between the broken and working packages. I think they were built with some wrong version of a library, possibly libglib.
<persia> I think it's the same syntax, although I could be mistaken.
<azeem> or do you mean some run-time architecture detection
<persia> No, in packaging, not in the code.
<azeem> [!i386] only works for Build-Depends
<azeem> at least AFAIK, maybe Ubuntu changed that
<leslieviljoen> I tried compiling them to debug them, but they went from constant immediate segfaults to working without any source changes
<persia> Worked for depends last I checked, but maybe only in the source package, and it gets determined at package build time.
<azeem> well, there is type-handling
<persia> leslieviljoen, In that case, just file a bug describing the situation, and that a rebuild is required, and subscribe the sponsors.  No debdiff required.
<azeem> but it's considered quite ugly
<persia> azeem, Let's pretend there isn't :)
<leslieviljoen> great, who are the sponsors and how to I subscribe them?
<persia> When you file the bug, there's a link to subscribe someone else.  Subscribe "ubuntu-universe-sponsors"
 * persia peers about for some Xubuntu-dev who might want to look at this.
<leslieviljoen> ok, will do. is it always "ubuntu-universe-sponsors"?
<persia> Most of the time.  About 10-15% of the time it's #ubuntu-main-sponsors".   It depends on whether the package is in universe or main.
<NIK> Hello... anybody here knows if the MOTU 896 woks on linux??
<persia> NIK, Firstly, #ubuntustudio is probably a better place for that question, and secondly MOTU is actively anti-linux, so if it works it's not well supported.  Consider another vendor, or if you already have it, try with a liveCD and test.
<NIK> ok!! thanks!
<pwnguin> now theres something that needs context
<pwnguin> "MOTU is actively anti-linux"
<persia> pwnguin, It's a audio interface.
<wgrant> Heh.
<persia> Mark of the Unicorn vs. Masters of the Universe
<NIK> jejej...
<ajmitch> much like plone is anti-sanity </complaint> :)
<leslieviljoen> persia: thanks, done
<leslieviljoen> bye all!
<LimCore> hi, is there a quick instruction how to get sources, apply my fix, and rebuild/test/etc one of applications with an annoying bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/296741) ?  Some wiki url or something?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296741 in network-manager "nm-applet G3 modem pin entry is visible " [Undecided,New]
<persia> LimCore, If you're not much fussed about how you apply your fix, just apt-get source $(package), edit stuff to meet your needs, run debuild -b, and test the result.
<persia> If it works, you probably want to look at the right patch system to use when applying the changes, etc.
<persia> !patch
<ubottu> Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
<jdong> consipracy theories begin: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/gates_bldg_linux_curse.jpg
<jdong> photo quality isn't great, but the computer on the right is running XP.
<jdong> to make matters worse, I just logged into the other Linux machine and it hardlocked.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-14
<emgent> jmarsden|work: ping
<emgent> jmarsden: ping again :)
<jmarsden|work> emgent: I'm here...
<emgent> jmarsden: query ?
<jmarsden|work> You pinged at 16:18 ?
<emgent> 1.18 am here..
<miik> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<miik> if i make a package, how long until i can get a ppa, and have it uploaded and compiled there?
<miik> after i got a package upon the ppa, how long until i can have it in official repo?
<handschuh> miik: the ppa is no requirement for getting a package into the ubuntu repositories
<mrooney> miik: I am not remotely an expert, but I think you can do the PPA yourself
<nhandler> !ppa | miik
<ubottu> miik: With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<handschuh> qq about get-orig-source: does it have to be version independent?
<miik> !lpia
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about lpia
<handschuh> well obivously is has to, but howto get the latest version
<miik> lpia?
<handschuh> miik: i think its intels atom platform
<miik> oh
<miik> thought atom was x86
<StevenK> It is
<StevenK> lpia stands for Low Power Intel Architecture
<handschuh> StevenK: so ... its atom?
<StevenK> handschuh: Yeah
<handschuh> StevenK: ok, thx
<miik> someone feed thato the bot
<Pici> !botsnack
<ubottu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<jmarsden|work> miik: See https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA for how to get a PPA
<miik> ok
<miik> yeah, i read that
<miik> how long before i make a package, until it can get included in official repo?
<nhandler> miik: Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages. You need to upload it to REVU and get 2 MOTUs to advocate it.
<miik> anyone can upload to REVU?
<jmarsden|work> Package of a new piece of software ... takes a while unless you know MOTUs to persuade... ; package an existing piece of software, fixing a bug... not much time at all, usually, you put the debdiff into the LP bug and persuade a MOTU to look at it :-)
<nhandler> Yes miik
<miik> how long it take before 2 MOTU advocate it? after that, how long it take before it in repo?
<nhandler> !revu | miik
<ubottu> miik: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<miik> well, packaging is a pain in the ass, its so difficult, but im considering learning it, but dont want todo it, if its gonna be in vain, and im not gonna be able to get stuff into the repo anyways
<jmarsden|work> miik: How long... seconds, if they are both in IRC and you persuade them to do it right away :-)  Or years, if noone cares about your software package :-|
<miik> oh
<jmarsden|work> miik: You might want to start by fixing bugs in existing packages rather than packaging new stuff.
<miik> so if packaging isnt difficult enough, there is beaurocracy and stuff too
<RAOF> miik: Packaging new programs is not necessarily the best way to start packaging.
<miik> jmarsden_, fixing bugs is difficult, then you need to know programming. packing new package, i just download source, and package it
<jmarsden|work> miik: Not so much bureaucracy, just too few MOTUs and a lot of stuff already in REVU
<handschuh> could anyone review my package at: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java ?
<jmarsden|work> miik: Fixing bugs can mean adding a desktop icon, or a translation to a .desktop file... not all bugs require code changes.
<miik> oh okie
<miik> can i just upload the .deskop file, or i need download package, add desktop file, package it, upload it?
<nhandler> miik: You will submit your changes in the form of a debdiff. To generate the debdiff
<jmarsden|work> Well, the first is a start, the second is better.
<nhandler> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<jmarsden|work> miik: https://launchpad.net/bugs/236140 is a bug where someone else uploaded a .desktop file, I did the packaging/debdiff, and the _RainCT checked it and got it uploaded to an offical repository.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236140 in koverartist "New .desktop file for KoverArtist" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<miik> oh
<miik> i need gpg and stuff to make a debdiff?
<jmarsden|work> miik: TO sign it so we know it is really from you, yes.  You can make them without signing them, but that's not useful for official repo use.
<miik> oh, ok
<jmarsden|work> miik: man debdiff
<miik> what point of sign them, if anyone can come with a nickname like "asd78asd8f7g" and come only once, then submit, then leave never to been again?
<persia> Erm.  GPG is *not* a requirement for creating debdiffs.
<RAOF> jmarsden|work: Um.  We don't require signed debdiffs
<RAOF> In fact, we don't _accept_ signed debdiffs.  Or don't have the infrastructure for it, and I've never seen one.
<persia> miik, When building a package for a debdiff, just use `debuild -S -us -uc` to avoid the GPG step.
<persia> RAOF, Well, we can accept signed debdiffs.  It's just a text file.  Most of us will grumble about stripping the signature though.
<jmarsden|work> Really? Ah, right, my bad.
 * jmarsden|work should be working, not talking in here and trying to work at the same time... :-)
<handschuh> under which circumstances is a get-orig-source rule needed?
<persia> handschuh, When `uscan --force-download` doesn't automatically get the upstream source.
<handschuh> persia: so what if uscan gets the upstream source but this file contains additional data (like binaries)
<persia> handschuh, If there's source available for those binaries, you can just delete them in debian/rules clean.
<persia> If there's no source available for those binaries, you need a get-orig-source to delete them when constructing the orig.tar.gz
<handschuh> persia: ok the package contains also the source so I just modify the clean task
<handschuh> persian: thanks
<handschuh> sry, "perisa"
<persia> handschuh, No problem.  Thanks for helping build the Ubuntu Java library set.  Someday we'll actually be able to use most Java apps cleanly :)
<handschuh> persia: there is still a lot to do, but I will try to add as many packages as possible like jaxws
<handschuh> persia: i am also working on cleaning up of old packages that have strange dependencies
<handschuh> but first I have to learn how to make acceptable packages  ;-)
<persia> handschuh, If you're looking for Java stuff, one of the targets for Jaunty is to get maven working, and there's a list of packages that need packaging, for which there's a few people who'd be happy to help review.
<handschuh> persia: i will try to help as much as possible
 * persia hunts down the spec
<handschuh> persia: the problem is that java is to easy to bundle. so erverybody just adds the needed libraries to their package
<persia> handschuh, Which is a security nightmare, as you might imagine.
<directhex> hence the number of +dfsg packages some of us need to maintain
<persia> handschuh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec , under bootstrapping.
<lfaraone> Hey, would documentation that is under this license be considered debian-free: "Permission is granted to reproduction and modification, as long as proper attribution is given. Changes made in derivatives need not be under the same license. By use of the work or a derivitive, you agree to indemnify its author from any liability connected to said use. Finally, if any of the term(s) of this license is deemed invalid by a court, or if it is vio
<handschuh> *bookmark*
<persia> lfaraone, pastebin
<lfaraone> persia: that's it, actually.
<lfaraone> persia: but here you go: http://pastebin.ca/1255778
<directhex> lfaraone, sounds pretty free to me
<directhex> lfaraone, expat license, give or take
<persia> lfaraone, It got cut off :)
<handschuh> well then .. i have to take my 4 hours of sleep ...
<lfaraone> persia: awww...
<persia> lfaraone, Hrm.  Looks mostly ok, but I'm not sure about the bit that if the license isn't valid, it can't be distributed.  That makes me wonder if it is valid.
<persia> I'd much prefer to see a clause saying that if any provision is invalid, the rest remain, rather than that if any provision is invalid, it cannot be distributed.
<directhex> persia, that's called "copyright"
<persia> Anyway, sleep well.  Maybe someone else disagrees with me.
<persia> directhex, Right, which doesn't allow redistribution by default.
<lfaraone> persia: The GPL has the same policy:
 * persia reads the GPL again, sure that it's not the same
<directhex> most licenses don't bother stating the obvious
<directhex> the obvious being "in the absence of this license, you don't have this license"
<persia> Um, that's not what this says.
<directhex> i.e. copyright applies, i.e. no rights matey
<lfaraone> persia: http://pastebin.ca/1255783
<directhex> anyway, bedtime
<persia> lfaraone, That says I have to follow the license even if the court says I can't, and that if I can't deal with that, I can't distribute it.
<persia> That's different from saying if a court has a problem with the license, even if they say I can distribute it, I can't.
<lfaraone> persia: ah, OK.
<lfaraone> persia: (I'm the "author" of the above, CC_BY is too tl;dr for my tastes in some cases)
<persia> lfaraone, You wrote that license?
<persia> lfaraone, Have you considered using the ISC license?  Similar intent, but common, and without the snag.
<lfaraone> persia: Yeah, I did. (Yes, I know it's bad to write your own, and that -motu INAL)
<directhex> WTFPL!
<directhex> it's dfsg-free!
<persia> Yeah, the WTFPL is certainly dfsg-free, but it's a little in-your-face.
<directhex> persia, if you don't like it, then clause 0 of the license permits relicensing :)
<persia> Plus it doesn't have the attribution restriction.  ISC has the attribution restriction, which seems to be a better fit for what lfarone seeks.
<lfaraone> persia: I'm seriously thinking of legally changing my name. _Every_ person on this earth seems to forget the second "a". :P
<NCommander> I haven't forgotten the second a lfaraone !
 * lfaraone gives NCommander a cookie. 
<NCommander> yay!
<directhex> how about "raven darktalon blood" as a new name?
<lfaraone> persia: ISC looks cool. I'm wondering if I can condense all of the "SHOUTING FOR LEGAL AUTHORITY" to a "You disclaim the author from all liability related to use of this document/program"
<lfaraone> directhex: Sure....
<persia> lfaraaone: Sorry about that.  I'll try to make up for it in the future.
<lfaraone> directhex: considereing prior to now I went as "firefoxman" :P
<persia> lfaraone, Well, the SHOUTING FOR LEGAL AUTHORITY is about as brief as you can get without going for something like WTFPL.  I don't know of any widely supported licenses that are shorter and still provide the desired protection.
<directhex> if you replace the SHOUTING part with LOOK AT MY LOVELY HAT, how many people do you think would notice?
<directhex> anyway, bedtime
<lfaraone> persia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_License just looks nice. (and rhymes!)
<persia> lfaraone, I don't see any issues with that one, although I've not seen other software under it.  It's probably good, but I'd want a second opinion before pushing it.
<lfaraone> persia: Ironically, the spesific use case I wrote this license for was for the reuse of another legal document I wrote (and _that_ was actually checked by a lawyer) for which I didn't want to be sued if the reuser was. But I'd also apply it to more relevent-to-ubuntu things.
<lfaraone> *(the document being licensed was a legal document itself)
<lfaraone> Oh, and for new packages, is debian or ubuntu prefered?
<lfaraone> (should I go through the NPP process on Ubuntu or on Debian?)
<directhex> debian!
<persia> Debian is preferred.
<directhex> don't enhance ubuntu, enhance free software. ubuntu gets the same benefit either way
<directhex> the splash damage is desirable
<persia> You can still use REVU to get it mostly right, but once it gets an ACK, declare your intention to publish in Debian, and we'll ignore it.
<lifeless> ideally do both
<lfaraone> persia: Ah, OK.
 * directhex fails to write a limerick about picking licenses
<directhex> anyway, BED
<lfaraone> persia: Oh, and a wider debian politics issue: How hard is it to push patches upstream? (I'm technically a "co-maintainer" of a suite of packages I also steward in ubuntu, but the only person who has uploader rights in that group has been nonresponsive)
<persia> lfaraone, If you're a comaintainer, you just need a DD to upload.  If none of the DD uploaders for the package are responsive, put a candidate on mentors, and ask for another DD to upload.  #debian-mentors on OFTC is a good place to ask.
<persia> lifeless, both?  How do you mean?
<lifeless> persia: become a debian package maintainer and an ubuntu MOTU
<lfaraone> lifeless: heh, I'm working on it :P
<persia> lifeless, Oh, yeah, that's a good combination for a person.  For a package, I don't see the point of Ubuntu source NEW if it's at all likely to be interesting in Debian.
<lifeless> persia: oh, full ack; modulo freezes
<lfaraone> persia: are the requirements for "participating" enough to qualify for universe-contributors defined anywhere?
<persia> lfaraone, Not quantitatively.  Essentially, you need to demonstrate 1) understanding of Ubuntu ideals, 2) significant and sustained contribution, 3) integration with the development team.
<persia> Usually involves being around and active for several months, with some expectation of continuing to be around and active, and having a few developers who are willing to speak on your behalf.
<lfaraone> persia: ah... I guess I'm confused on what is "significant". Most of my work has been in one suite of packages (same one I am co-maintaining in debian), and I've only done work in Intrepid. (Even though I'm somehow 113 in the "msot uploads to intrepid" list)
<persia> lfaraone, I'd recommend chatting with some of the developers with whom you've worked closely, and get their opinions on the matter.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. In case Debian fixed a security issue with a standard new subrelease, do I ask for a sync following the SRU process, subscribing also Security team, or should I replicate the debian changes in an Ubuntu specific version?
<fabrice_sp> in this case, Debian version change is from 0.6.0.2-2 to 0.6.0.2-3
<wgrant> fabrice_sp: In general you should replicate the Debian changes for each Ubuntu release, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures.
<fabrice_sp> wgrant: I know, but in this case, the change is only in control file (to link with the correct library)
<fabrice_sp> it's Debian Bug #504429
<ubottu> Debian bug 504429 in kadu "kadu: CVE-2008-4776 remote DoS" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/504429
<wgrant> Urgh.
<wgrant> fabrice_sp: That doesn't make it special. Just replicate that change as with a normal security update.
<fabrice_sp> wgrant: ok. Will follow the standard Security Update, then.
<fabrice_sp> By the way, should I also suscribe Motu SRU at the same time that Security team?
<wgrant> It's not a SRU.
<wgrant> So no.
<fabrice_sp> This is fixed in Jaunty, so if I want it in Intrepid, it's not a SRU? Sorry about that, but I don't really understand how Securtiy Updates and SRU unteracts
<fabrice_sp> (even after looking at wiki pages)
<wgrant> They are separate processes.
<wgrant> SRUs are for non-security updates.
<wgrant> While one called call a security update to a stable release a form of SRU, that's not how the terms are used.
<wgrant> s/called/could/
<fabrice_sp> ooook
<fabrice_sp> I really thought a Security update eneded as a SRU
<fabrice_sp> s/eneded/ended/
<fabrice_sp> will follow the Security update process then. Thanks
<wgrant> No, motu-sru is never involved.
<NCommander> Involed w/ what?
<fabrice_sp> so, can you please usubscribe motu-sru from bug #297475? It's another one that I have to update then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297475 in dns2tcp "[Sync Request] Please sync dns2tcp 0.4.dfsg-5 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297475
<wgrant> NCommander: Security updates.
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: As a practical matter the contents of -security are periodically copied into -updates, but that's a Soyuz thing that doesn't involve us at all.  Thay may be what you're thinking of.
<NCommander> Stupid question, why aren't security updates just put in -updates?
<wgrant> NCommander: So people can have -updates disabled.
<NCommander> StevenK, ICMP echo
<Hobbsee> NCommander: because some people just want security fixes
<Hobbsee> without anything else
<NCommander> Oh
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: I really thought that all updates to a stable release should go to with a SRU
<NCommander> Makes some sense
 * NCommander would agree w/ fabrice_sp 
<fabrice_sp> clear now :-)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Ah.  Nope.  As
<StevenK> NCommander: What's this thing you want me to look at?
<ScottK> As you now see ...
<NCommander> StevenK, its a no-changes SRU to a2ps so it can exist in updates (and then promoted w/i that pocket), and then a modification to xfprint4 to depend on a2ps
<wgrant> Isn't there a bug with the command-line override tool and pocket overrides?
<NCommander> wgrant, it worked fine on dogfood
<NCommander> I heard that before, hence why I got bigjools to test it
<NCommander> StevenK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfprint4/+bug/211335 - relevant bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 211335 in xfprint4 "Mousepad -> xfprint4 Crashes" [Medium,Confirmed]
<wgrant> Ah, bug #36022
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 36022 in soyuz "change-override can't handle pockets" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36022
<StevenK> Looks like it hasn't rolled out yet
<StevenK> NCommander: So, no, I can't.
<NCommander> Strange that it would be fixed on Dogfood then
<wgrant> NCommander: It could have been done directly on the DB.
<StevenK> Which I can't do
<StevenK> Based on the scary script error in that bug, I'm not playing.
<wgrant> Exactly.
<StevenK> Wait for 2.11
<NCommander> Fair enough
<wgrant> 2.11... 10 years? :P
<NCommander> I would think it would be -6 years <g>
<StevenK> Fine. The next Launchpad rollout
<StevenK> NCommander: Sorry, but thems the brakes
<NCommander> -EBAH :-P
 * NCommander listens to an awesome song
<ScottK> wgrant: I like the debian/changelog entry here: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/mime-tools/5.427-1ubuntu1
<ScottK> With that, I'm off to bed.
<wgrant> ScottK: Haha.
<wgrant> ScottK: I've filed 22 Launchpad bugs in the past 24 hours.
<NCommander> ahahahah
<dholbach> good morning
<NCommander> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya NCommander
 * NCommander is eyeing over the current FTBFS lists
<wgrant> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi wgrant!
<wgrant> hppa made a bit of a come-back while fakeroot was broken on armel :(
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> lpia is really quite broken :-/
<wgrant> armel is still beating it relative to last night, though.
<persia> In terms of throughput, or percentage of archive?
<NCommander> if its the later, I worry about HPPA :-P
<wgrant> Relative counts of pending builds. But I guess depwait isn't counted in those numbers on /+builds, so it's not right.
<persia> Well, from the armel build failures, I'm not sure the depwait checker is doing well.
<persia> Where's the best place to file a bug against http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?  I'd like a link to the page with the "rebuild me" button.
<wgrant> Indeed, it seems to only catch when deps are missing, not when the archive is borked.
<wgrant> persia: That'd be build/+retry?
<wgrant> Or retrybuild, one of them.
<persia> Well, doesn't have to be direct.  I was thinking the build summary page rather than the build log.  It's two clicks to the build log, but if it's just that debhelper couldn't be installed, I can press the pretty button.
<persia> NCommander, You look at these a lot.  What do you think of that change?
 * NCommander usually uses the buildd command
<wgrant> I think probably linking to the build page rather than log makes sense.
<NCommander> no
<NCommander> That would make things hardware because then its four or five clicks to the log
<persia> No, two.
<NCommander> Since retrying, while signifcant, is still only about half the build fixes
<wgrant> Click on build page. Click on log link.
<wgrant> s/page/page link/
<NCommander> oh, I see
 * persia starts retrying lpia universe alphabetically from ack where it's just build-dep stuff
<wgrant> I wonder if LP needs to grow an 'archive breakage' state where that kind of build will go.
<persia> Current click path is PTS -> Ubuntu -> version -> build page -> rebuild
<wgrant> Although I guess sometimes it is real build-dep combination problems.
<wgrant> persia: Version -> arch -> rebuild
<persia> wgrant, No, from the version page there's a link on the top right to the build page.
<persia> (unless that's going away early next week)
<wgrant> persia: I can click on the version number of /ftbfs, and get https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/linux-meta/2.6.27.7.11. I then click on the appropriate distroarchseries in the Builds portlet, which gets me to the build page.
<wgrant> s/number of/number on/
<persia> Oh.  That's not so bad then.  Ignore my request, as lots of packages need attention on multiple arches.
<wgrant> buildd.py is useful.
<persia> three -> two isn't enough benefit to pay one -> two for each build record.
<NCommander> SO is it possible to get limited upload rights to main? (someone was talking about that on the list a few days ago, and with the current talk on emacs-snapshot)
<persia> It is possible.  You need to apply to the tech board, and have a strong history of maintenance for the package in question.
<wgrant> NCommander: Technically, yes. By policy, not entirely.
 * NCommander would like to get upload rights to linux-ports, and linux-ports-meta
<persia> I think we have three such people.  It's rare.
<wgrant> And I think one of them recently became a core-dev.
<persia> NCommander, You'll want to build some history first.
<NCommander> persia, I'm the only one who is actively touching this package?
<persia> wgrant, I thought we had three left, after that, but you may be right that it's only two (as only two names are springing to mind)
<persia> NCommander, history.  It takes time.
<wgrant> Of course, there's no UI for it...
<NCommander> I see.
<persia> Generally it only happens when someone has been working for long enough on main stuff to normally qualify for core-dev, except that they only expect to do a small cluster of packages, and they don't expect this to change over time.  It's a rare thing, and probably not best sought.
<NCommander> Ah, I see
 * NCommander schedules package retries in universe
<persia> Start from the bottom of the list, so we don't collide :)
<NCommander> I'm right now retrying the r-* packages
<persia> Oh, that's fine.  I'm still on a
<NCommander> I just jump around and retry obvious failures
<wgrant> It might be nice to have a mass-giveback on !(armel|hppa) soon.
<NCommander> It would be nice if LP retried failed builds once in awhile
<persia> wgrant, Who has to schedule that?  Saves me poking things, since 6/8 packages I've examined so far would benefit.
<wgrant> persia: Somebody with DB access, I believe. Probably infinity.
<persia> Ah.  That's hard then.
 * persia goes back to doing it manually
<wgrant> Or, AIUI, he normally requests that somebody with DB access does them.
 * NCommander pulls out the RAID utilities FTBFS
<persia> So one of the build admins could do it?  (build admin != buildd admin)
<NCommander> Why can't glibc believe in a stable API :-/
<wgrant> persia: Unsure.
 * persia goes to a likely more informed channel
<persia> Bad time of day though.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> /usr/include/bits/fcntl2.h:51: error: call to '__open_missing_mode' declared with attribute error: open with O_CREAT in second argument needs 3 arguments
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> The sign of quality software: when including a header is enable to FTBFS
 * wgrant tracks down LP bug #24 for this 24 hour period.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 24 in rosetta "uploading language po file causes extra lines to be appended" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24
<NCommander> lol
<wgrant> I have 8 minutes.
<NCommander> File a bug about a lack of UI for seeing people w/ limited main upload rights
<persia> That bug already exists.  It needs to be a new one.
<persia> wgrant, No navigation from and architecture on https://launchpad.net/+builds to the list of pending builds?
 * persia doesn't know if that already exists
<NCommander> I know one
<NCommander> Private team membership causes the recent team membership list to break
<wgrant> persia: Unfortunately that's dependent on there being such a list of pending builds.
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~cody-somerville
<wgrant> And that has been deferred indefinitely.
<NCommander> Cody's page is a prime example
<wgrant> NCommander: Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe that's only because his last five are private.
<wgrant> Because other people who I know have private memberships have older teams listed.
 * wgrant files it anyway, leaving LP people to deal with it. Nyahah.
<persia> wgrant, Ooh.  Annoying.  lpnet/ubuntu/+builds works, lpnet/ubuntu/$(release)/$(arch)/+builds works, but lpnet/ubutu/$(arch)/+builds doesn't work.  Never noticed that before.
<wgrant> persia: That's because distroarch doesn't exist. Only distroarchseries.
<wgrant> persia: And Ubuntu isn't the only distro on LP.
<wgrant> Well, at the moment it is.
<persia> Which is why it's been deferred indefinitely?
<NCommander> wgrant, I just thought of it for your 24 bugs in 24 hours
<NCommander> wgrant, I also have another bug
<wgrant> persia: I don't know.
<wgrant> Right, #24 filed, but only 23 are open :(
<NCommander> wgrant, want another one?
<persia> Which one got killed?
<wgrant> NCommander: Sure.
<wgrant> persia: Bug #297882
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297882 in malone "Bug/+addbranch's subscribers portlet has strange header" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297882
<wgrant> Apparently that's present on all bug action pages.
<wgrant> Except for the main page, which is where most actions take place.
 * wgrant rolls eyes.
<NCommander> wgrant, here's a hint
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kamion/+related-software
<NCommander> Look closely at the PPA section
<wgrant> so really the bug is the other way around.
<wgrant> NCommander: Nothing wrong with that, AFAICS. It was later copied to primary, so became public.
<persia> Also, edit description/tags has the main page UI.  Seems odd to have two different portlets for the same purpose.
<wgrant> NCommander: The only possible bug there is that the P3A is linkified.
 * wgrant files two bugs about that page.
<NCommander> wgrant, it was on that page before it was copied to primary
<persia> wgrant, That's too many.  You have to wait an hour :p
<wgrant> NCommander: Really? One would need to check with a security person when they next upload, I guess.
<NCommander> wgrant, that's difficult because they can't say what packages they uploaded due to the embargo ...
<wgrant> NCommander: Unembargoed stuff is still uploaded to the P3A.
<NCommander> ah
 * RAOF wonders exactly _how_ broken the nouveau branch supporting DRI2 & GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is...
<wgrant> Poor sejong...
<wgrant> RAOF: You probably don't want to try...
<wgrant> Crack is bad.
<RAOF> Pffft!
<RAOF> Poppycock!
<RAOF> Sure, it needs private branches of mesa, drm, and nouveau.  What could /possibly/ go wrong? :)
<RAOF> Oh, and a newer x11-proto-dri2 than Intrepid has, apparently.
<wgrant> persia: Well, I didn't realise that mass-givebacks were so remarkably easy to achieve.
<persia> wgrant, The trick is apparently to ask at midnight on a holiday :)
<persia> Anyone have any good suggestions for http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19636265/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-lpia.mplayer-libpostproc_1%3A1.0-pre1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<persia> RAOF, What's your current confidence level about Jaunty?
<NCommander> persia, gcc-3 is still in the archive for QEMU, I recommend using it (you might need to fudge the configure scripts to find it however)
<RAOF> persia: With respect to?
<persia> RAOF, nouveau
<wgrant> persia: Tell upstream to die.
<persia> NCommander, Do you really think that's the right answer?
<persia> wgrant, I'm suggestive, but not that suggestive.
<RAOF> persia: My guess is nouveau will stay in my PPA, and we won't sync it from experimental.
<NCommander> persia, my main issue is that there are a lot of ways gcc 4 changed things
<wgrant> Isn't our archive nice and happy now: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<NCommander> It's pathetic it still doesn't support gcc 4
<persia> RAOF, OK.  I just like to check each cycle :)  Maybe next time.
<NCommander> But gcc 3 -> 4 could introduce a lot of suitable regressions
<RAOF> persia: Failing that, I could _possibly_ dkms-ify nouveau's drm build, and we could include it.
<persia> wgrant, Well, sparc still needs help, and there's apparently no data for ia64, and hppa is still special, but very much so :)
<RAOF> My expectation is that there won't be a nouveau release during the Jaunty cycle.
<persia> I'd say the lack of a nouveau release during the beginning of the cycle was the key bit.  The dkmsification sounds like seriously cut crack.
<RAOF> Right.  dkms-ifying it would be possible, but it's a work-around for it not being ready.
<persia> Ready is better.  Introducing buggy nouveau doesn't really fit with "just works" :(
<RAOF> That said, Jaunty should be one step closer to nouveau; it'll have a libdrm that should work with nouveau, so we'd _just_ need the kernel modules.
<RAOF> For the moment, of course, until they require new libdrm API ;)
<NCommander> RAOF, I could see about getting nouveau added to the ubuntu folder in the kernel if dkms isn't an option
<persia> If libdrm is compatible, why can't we include the kernel modules?
<persia> Or is it just that it's still trunk, which is all sorts of dangerous?
<RAOF> Well, libdrm 2.4.1 should support nouveau, so we _could_ include the kernel modules in l-u-m or something, actually.
<RAOF> There's no guarantee that nouveau won't require API breaking changes to drm, but that's settled down a bit.  I guess until the memory-manager's ready.
<persia> So which is the missing bit?
<RAOF> The kernel drm.ko + nouveau.ko.  I'll just check that Jaunty actually has a sufficiently-new libdrm, though.
 * persia isn't sure about nouveau-by-default by nouveau-from-repo is awfully tempting
<persia> s/by/but/
<RAOF> Yeah, it is a bit.
<superm1> RAOF, the source package produces these kernel modules and libdrm does it not?  why not do it like a normal package just with a dkms binary package for these kernel modules then?
<superm1> you would be at least guaranteed that the kernel modules that were in the archive at the same time as the libdrm matched API wise
<RAOF> Jaunty doesn't yet have libdrm 2.4.1, but it presumably will at some point.
<RAOF> superm1: That would be possible, yes.
<persia> superm1, Do you think that's better than trying to get them in-tree?
<RAOF> persia: It'd be tempting to go nouveau-by-default on certain hardware; nv4x & nv3x spring to mind.
<RAOF> I suspect that upstream might not be terribly supportive of that, though ;)
<superm1> well it sounds like everything is in flux right now.  having an unstable driver in tree that could potentially break kernel builds doesn't seem appealing to me.  the API breakage part too...
<persia> nouveau is bettern than nv for nv4x?
<RAOF> persia: In every way, yes.
<RAOF> persia: Supports xrandr1.2, has best EXA acceleration of any driver.
 * persia has an nv4x sitting around somewhere, and gets tempted, but still doesn't like PPAs
<RAOF> Oh, and high-quality Xv :)
<superm1> RAOF, so libdrm 2.4.1 has everything needed for nouveau?
<persia> How does it compare to nvidia for nv4x?
<RAOF> persia: Faster at 2d, pretty much.  And dual-head sucks less.
<persia> Does 3D work yet?
<RAOF> Nouveau is faster at 2d, I mean
<RAOF> Hah!  Not for any value of "work" that you'd want to rely on.
<persia> heh.
<StevenK> It may draw on the screen, but it won't look like anything?
<RAOF> For example, 3D will currently inexorably exhaust VRAM until it's all full, and then fall over.
 * persia remembers watching renderings of glxgears that defied explanation
<StevenK> RAOF: Whee
<RAOF> StevenK: While it's working, it'll do OpenArena pretty well.  On my card.
<RAOF> Takes a while for it to exhaust 512Mb of VRAM :)
<RAOF> superm1: Yes, libdrm 2.4.1 has everything needed for nouveau at the moment.
<superm1> RAOF, well then i'd say if you believe the API for nouveau kernel module - >libdrm is going to stay stable enough shoot to have it in default kernel, but have a dkmsified source package on the archive ready to flip on as a backup solution
<RAOF> A dkms-ified libdrm package is probably a better bet.
<RAOF> We'll likely want the ability to pull in snapshots, if nothing else.
<RAOF> Bah!  Well, that's the current adventure over, failing rebuilding Xserver with dri2 support.
<NCommander> persia, any objections if I work on mplayer-libpostproc?
<siretart> NCommander: what's that? mplayer-libpostproc?
<NCommander> ask persia, he gave me the build failure log
<siretart> NCommander: if it really is what I think it is, I'd recommend removing it from the archive
<NCommander> ok, what is it?
<siretart> I asked first :)
<siretart> bah, it seems to be one of the libraries ffmpeg actually provides and mplayer copies, packaged in a new source package
<siretart> please get it removed from the archive
<siretart> it never built in ubuntu anyways
<NCommander> siretart, wooo, cruft removal!
<StevenK> File a bug
<siretart> yes please
<savvas> is it advisable to use circular dependencies?
<savvas> example: smc and smc-data
<mok0> savvas: No!
<savvas> so i should file a bug :)
<mok0> savvas: Yes, I'd think so
<savvas> mok0: would you suggest using a "Recommends: smc" or "Suggests: smc" for smc-data?
<mok0> savvas: I don't think you need anything
<mok0> savvas: you could use "Enhances:" if you insist
<savvas> but smc won't play without it :P
<savvas> hm.. ok
<mok0> savvas: smc should require smc-data
<mok0> savvas: depends, rather
<savvas> I see, reasonable enough
<savvas> thanks!
<mok0> savvas: It means if you install smc, it will also install smc-data
<joaopinto> savvas, there is already a package for smc, what's wrong with the current dependencies :) ?
<joaopinto> oh, it depends on smc :\
<mok0> joaopinto: apparently there's a circular dependency
<joaopinto> there is
<joaopinto> I thought he was repackaging :P
<mok0> ah
<savvas> joaopinto: I am, but in launchpad PPA :p
<savvas> https://edge.launchpad.net/~medigeek/+archive
<joaopinto> savvas, packaging the latest version ?
<savvas> yes
<savvas> 1.6
<joaopinto> I need to borrow it :P
<savvas> be my guest :)
<savvas> I used the source from apt-get source and updated the patch to match the new configure file
<savvas> (and a new orig.tar.gz)
<savvas> I don't know if this the correct way, but oh well :p
<joaopinto> that's how usually do it ;)
<savvas> joaopinto: are you the maintainer for smc/smc-data ?
<savvas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smc/+bug/297978
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297978 in smc "circular dependencies between smc and smc-data" [Undecided,New]
<savvas> just filed the dependency bug :)
<joaopinto> saivann, nope
<gnomefreak> is there a Jaunty changes mailing list yet, im not sure maybe i overlooked it but i couldnt find it
<persia> There is, and an RSS feed.
<gnomefreak> on lists.ubuntu.com?
<persia> (really just a mail -> RSS gateway, but you may find it as convenient)
<persia> Shhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Jaunty-changes
<persia> s/`Sh//
<gnomefreak> ah i found it thanksd
<tonyyarusso> Any of you guys have an inkling how many years of experience in an IT field usually equates to median pay for that field?  (medians are always given on salary statistics, but I don't know how to interpret them.)
<verwilst> tonyyarusso: you have salary stats?
<persia> tonyyarusso, I'd suggest the 5-10 year experience bracket would probably hit median for IT, although there's *huge* variation in such a wide field.  Depending on the position, that might require more experience (IT management at a multinational) or less (non-lead Developer for large shop).
<hyperair> does anybody know whether ubuntu has a package for wxscintilla?
<hyperair> and if there is, what is it?
<persia> apt-cache search returns a bunch of results for scintilla, but I don't see wx bindings offhand.
<mok0> azeem: ping
<tonyyarusso> verwilst: There are lots of stats from both the government and other web sites, yeah.
<tonyyarusso> persia: That sounds fairly reasonable.  It would be as the sysadmin/it director for a very small business that does web development.
<verwilst> tonyyarusso: where? :) /me curious
<tonyyarusso> verwilst: The job or the stats?
<hyperair> okay, so i've got a package for codelite ready. do i need to file a packaging request before uploading to revu?
<persia> The problem with all of them is that they are too vague.  For a given position, there's wide variation in salary between industries (for the same work).
<persia> tonyyarusso, You'd also need to specify location before you have a meaningful number, and unfortunately, unless you're moving here, I won't be able to give you a sensible number (I haven't done placement in the states for enough years to have no idea of appropriate salaries).
<persia> hyperair, No, but you'll want to close a bug in the initial changelog, and you can't get the bug number until you file it.
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> okay
<tonyyarusso> persia: location is currently Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, but the job is such that I could move anywhere and let the position follow me.
<persia> tonyyarusso, I don't have enough insight there.  Talk to a local recruiter (not as a prospect, but in a bar after-hours).
<handschuh> is anybody free to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java ?
<mok0> handschuh: Packaging looks good
<handschuh> mok0:  :-)
<mok0> handschuh: re: the comments of onskarshinde, did you add the gpl.txt file yourself?
<handschuh> mok0: there is just a lgpl file from upstream
<mok0> handschuh: but he wrote " The upstream archive does not contain any license information"
<mok0> Oh, lgpl
<handschuh> mok0: I talkte to upstram and they kindly changed it
<mok0> handschuh: Great!
<mok0> handschuh: I'll see if it builds for me
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, that'd be mine.  ;)
<mok0> handschuh: you still have the build.xml file in diff.gz
<Hobbsee> i...think
<handschuh> mok0: because I changed it to fit using cdbs
<mok0> handschuh: ok. It is easier to maintain the package if you make it a patch
<handschuh> mok0: ok but first I hav to learn something about the patch system  :-)
<Hobbsee> oh.  that package.  it's sort of mine :)
<mok0> handschuh: Great! :-) It's not hard to do
<mok0> !quilt
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about quilt
<mok0> :-(
<handschuh> mok0: but besides this and the missing get-orig-source rule ... is there anything left?
<mok0> handschuh: no, afaics it looks good
<mok0> handschuh: I am not a java programmer so unfortunately I can't test to see if the package works from here
<handschuh> mok0: :-D  great ... once I have this package working, I will add a lot more java packages
<handschuh> mok0: was the balloontip.jar created?
<mok0> handschuh: hang on
<mok0> handschuh: building now
<mok0> handschuh: I think you can use the simplepatch system of cdbs
<mok0> handschuh: you just need to include a file in rules, and put the patch in debian/patches
<handschuh> mok0: ok I will try to do this ... cdbs is really easy once I understood it
<mok0> handschuh: yes it's pretty cool
<mok0> handschuh: package didn't build... I need to update my builder
<handschuh> mok0: is this due to a bad description in the package?
<mok0> handschuh: I think it's my builder being out-of-date
<mok0> handschuh: here we go again...
<azeem> mok0: pong
<mok0> azeem: hi, just wanted to ask for your email address but I found it :-)
<azeem> ah :)
<mok0> azeem: I got in touch with the qutemol guys
<azeem> oh nice
<handschuh> mok0: has the diff file to be in unified mode?
<mok0> handschuh: yes
<azeem> ah, saw your mail now (just arrived in the office)
<mok0> handschuh: and must include the patch from the directory above the package directory
<azeem> mok0: do you know cmake?  It might make sense to propose that to the qutemol devs as a unified build system, as it seems to nicely support all the platforms they care about
<mok0> azeem: eerh, no I don't know cmake, in fact I do prefer gnu make
<azeem> I do as well
<azeem> though it's a PITA to build/support autotools projects on Windows AFAIK
<azeem> anyway, gotta go for lunch; I'll be back later
<mok0> azeem: in fact I don't give a damn about the windows platform ;-)
<mok0> azeem: for all I care, people can run linux if they want to run the program :-P
<mok0> handschuh: still building here, the archive is s-l-o-w today
<handschuh> mok0: ok, thanks
<handschuh> mok0: ok I got the packsystem working ... really easy  :-)
<mok0> handschuh: good work!
<mok0> handschuh: ideally, we'd like the only content of diff.gz to be debian/*
<mok0> handschuh: hmm, failed again, but it's not your package
<handschuh> mok0: can you pastebin the error?
<mok0> handschuh: http://pastebin.com/f29fcff59
<handschuh> mok0: a ok i know
<handschuh> mok0: the problem is that the sun jre will not install on fakeroot because the package only installs if cou manually accept the sun-license
<mok0> handschuh: ah! How are java packages built by the buildd, then?
<handschuh> mok0: its a trick
<mok0> handschuh: ... yes?
<handschuh> mok0: just make it depending on: openjdk-6-jdk | java5-sdk |
<handschuh> mok0: instead of only java5-sdk
<handschuh> mok0: so if no jdk is installed, the openjdk will be installed (it does not require any manual input)
<mok0> handschuh: ok, I'll try to change it...
<handschuh> mok0: I will upload the fix (including the patch right now)
<mok0> handschuh: great
<mok0> handschuh: OK, so the build hosts have java5-sdk installed already?
<mok0> handschuh: going to lunch, will give package a final look when I return
<handschuh> mok0: no they don't
<handschuh> mok0: ok, have fun
<mok0> handschuh: see you later
<binarymutant> I don't know if I'm phrasing this right but how do I change the ubuntu version name(in my case it's 0ubuntu1) without messing up gpg signing and dput?
<persia> MOTU Meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> binarymutant, You change it in the changelog *before* you build the package.  Anything else is likely to cause issues.
<binarymutant> persia, thanks :)
<handschuh> does having a get-orig-source rule make a watchfile not to be manditory?
<persia> handschuh, Depends on your get-orig-source rule.  I find them easier to write with a watch file.
<handschuh> persia: w/o a watchfile I cant use uscan, right? so having both is the best. thanks
<persia> Right :)
<azeem> mok0: right, but currently the Linux Makefiles are second class citizens
<hyperair> how do i reupload a package to revu? i realized after i uploaded that i forgot to run it through lintian
<lidb> anyone can help review my packages: iptux, fqterm, ibus and llk-linux, thanks
<persia> hyperair, rm the .upload file, and dput again.
<hyperair> persia: i used dput -f, doesn't that do the same thing?
<persia> lidb, Providing URLs typically gets better response, but there's currently a MOTU Meeting, so few are likely to review.
<persia> hyperair, Well, yes.
<hyperair> persia: revu doesn't seem to show any changes
<hyperair> aah nevermind it's updated
<hyperair> so. can someone review it? =p http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<lidb> persia, today is not a review day?
<lidb> please help review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux
<persia> lidb, Today is REVU day.  This hour is MOTU Meeting.
<lidb> persia, thanks
<hyperair> persia: there's a REVU day?
<hyperair> persia: when does this hour last until?
<persia> hyperair, Until the MOTU Meeting is complete.  Probably around 13:00 UTC, unless it runs over.
<hyperair> persia: alright thanks
<lidaobing> now it's 13:00 UTC, motu meeting finished?
<sebner> lidaobing: not yet
<lidaobing> please help review my packages: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=fqterm  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ibus http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=llk-linux
<lidaobing> thanks
<mok0> MOTU meeting finished...
<mok0> lidaobing: iptux, debian/rules, get rid of comments at top of fiel
<mok0> fiel
<mok0> file
 * sebner is wondering if the new copyright format is already open for use?
<mok0> sebner: has it been finalized?
<persia> sebner, You can use it, but you might have to fix it later.
<sebner> mok0: well, dunno, so I'm asking ;) I just saw some comments on REVU to use the new format
<mok0> sebner: I've been advocating it for some time now
<sebner> persia: So it's bad to recomment it on REVU
<lidaobing> mok0, ok, i'll fix it
<persia> sebner, I believe current policy is that we don't express a preference.
<sebner> kay
<mok0> lidaobing: man page is v-e-r-y minimal. Can't you make it more useful?
<persia> It just has to really be the right old format, or really be the right new format.
<sebner> the questions is how new the new format is ^^ e.g when it will be stable and finalized
<lidaobing> mok0, no more, there are no options for this program
<mok0> lidaobing: and in the manpage, you have to escape "-" (minus) like this: \-
<lidaobing> mok0, Ok
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<mok0> lidaobing: I understand, but the description could be better
<mok0> lidaobing: is doesn't tell you what protocol the IP client uses
<lidaobing> mok0, I think no more minus need escape in manpage
<mok0> lidaobing: or recognizes on the intranet
<mok0> lidaobing: yes
<mok0> " - send message" ... -> "\- send message" etc
<mok0> lidaobing: Don't argue
<lidaobing> mok0, I don't think it need quote in manpage
<mok0> lidaobing: Don't argue
<lidaobing> mok0, why don't argue
<mok0> Well, if you want your package reviewed, don't waste my time
<lidaobing> mok0, only some minus symbol need quote
<mok0> lidaobing: I can see 3 minus that need to be escaped.
<mok0> Jeez
<mok0> lidaobing: And I want a better man page.
<lidaobing> mok0, ok I will quote it, but I think it's the wrong choice
<mok0> lidaobing: it's not
<lidaobing> mok0, check groff(7)
<lidaobing> it should be a hyphen in UTF8 and should be a minus in C
<lidaobing> mok0, it's correct
<lidaobing> mok0, only the command option need quote in manpage
<handschuh> mok0: thanks for you comment!
<handschuh> mok0: and advocated   :-)
<mok0> lidaobing: you are using hyphens as bullets in a list and that is wrong
<lidaobing> mok0, OK, I will quote it, I will upload the modified version soon.
<mok0> lidaobing: wait there's more
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<mok0> lidaobing: iptux has an empty ChangeLog file
<lidaobing> mok0, I remember I have drop it, it should not exist in .deb file
<mok0> lidaobing: it gets installed by dh_installchangelogs
<lidaobing> mok0, OK, I will fix this problem
<azeem> 0-byte ChangeLog are quite common, maybe dh_installchangelogs should detect this and skip them
<mok0> azeem: yeah
<mok0> azeem: ... and next version may have a true changelog
<azeem> #  * dh_installchangelogs: When searching for changelog in v7 mode, skip
<azeem> #    empty files. Closes: #490937
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to review my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would be very appreciative. Thanks :)
<mok0> lidaobing: small problem with the desktop entry
<lidaobing> mok0, I can confirm changelog does not exist in .deb file if build under jaunty
<mok0> lidaobing: ok, fine
<hyperair> anyone got time to review a package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<lidaobing> mok0, you mean Encoding? I will patch this
<mok0> lidaobing: very good, thanks
<Laibsch> Hi
<Laibsch> Is it generally true that "1:3.0.0-2ubuntu1~rolf1 <= 1:3.0.0-2ubuntu1"?
<mok0> lidaobing: don't you have a full name for the author of this program?
<wgrant> Laibsch: That's the point of ~
<Laibsch> My PPA just rejected an upload for this reason
<mok0> Laibsch: yes
<Laibsch> Oh
<Laibsch> I see, thanks
<lidaobing> mok0, wait, I need check
<persia> Laibsch, dpkg --compare-versions might be a useful command for you.
<lidaobing> mok0, no, I know he/she is a Chinese, and he never use his full name when email or talk with me
<mok0> lidaobing: I would be good if you can find his full name, the copyright is a legal statement
<lidaobing> mok0, do you think it really required, maybe he don't want to leak his realname
<lidaobing> mok0, many one prefer this in China
<mok0> lidaobing: I see. Well ask him if he wants to give his full name.
<lidaobing> mok0, I will try
<mok0> lidaobing: thank you
<mok0> lidaobing: have you checked that iptux works? It segfaults for me
<mok0> lidaobing: (on Intrepid)
<lidaobing> it works for me
<lidaobing> mok0, it works for me
<mok0> lidaobing: are you on i386
<lidaobing> mok0, yes
<lidaobing> mok0, OK, I will test it on amd64 later
<mok0> lidaobing: ok, I am on amd64, perhaps that is a problem
<lidaobing> mok0, I only check the compile under amd64 use ppa
<mok0> lidaobing: with the exception of the things we have discussed, packaging looks good
<lidaobing> mok0, Thanks.
<lidaobing> mok0, I will re-upload after resolve the crash problem under amd64
<mok0> lidaobing: it compiles without problems, but running it gives a segmentation error
<mok0> lidaobing: thanks
<lidaobing> mok0, thanks you.
<mok0> lidaobing: good work
<lidaobing> mok0, thanks
<mok0> hyperair, I will look at codelite now
<hyperair> mok0: thanks
<mok0> hyperair: in debian/rules, you probably want Priority: optional
<hyperair> control or rules?
<mok0> hyperair: control, sorry
<hyperair> alright, i'll make the change
<hyperair> hmm seems i forgot to set the Section
<hyperair> i'll set it to universe/devel. is that okay?
<mok0> hyperair: just devel
<hyperair> okay
<mok0> hyperair: in debian/rules, why do you need to remove DEBIAN/control ??
<hyperair> mok0: ah that. you see, codelite actually dumps into the root of the source folder, fakeroot/DEBIAN/control when running configure
<mok0> hyperair: ok
<hyperair> mok0: i think it's part of codelite's deb building script
<mok0> hyperair: codelite builds its own .debs during building??
<hyperair> mok0: no. there's a make_deb.sh for that
<hyperair> mok0: however, ./configure dumps a file into fakeroot/DEBIAN/control
<mok0> hyperair: Hm. Strange
<hyperair> mok0: make_deb.sh only copies stuff that's just been built into fakeroot/ and then runs dpkg -b or something of that sort
<hyperair> dpkg -b fakeroot ${PKG_NAME}
<mok0> hyperair: ... but you override all that stuff, right?
<hyperair> mok0: i just don't call make_deb.sh. it doesn't affect the build process because nothing hits debian/
<mok0> hyperair: that's fine
<hyperair> mok0: i just put it in clean:: because running diff and diffstat showed that file
<mok0> hyperair: still downloading the tarball, it's pretty big
<mok0> hyperair: excellent
<hyperair> mok0: thanks. there are actually a few things i'm unsure about... ./configure isn't your regular autotools configure. it seems to be some custom built one from codelite. it seems to ship certain libraries with it.. in sdk/
<mok0> hyperair: debian/changelog, distribution is jaunty
<hyperair> ok
<mok0> hyperair: oh, yes, I can see that configure is not a gnu one
<lidaobing> mok0, I can't reproduce the crash under amd64, can you send me the core file or the full backtrace, my email is lidaobing@gmail.com, thanks.
<mok0> lidaobing: I didn't get a core file, I will need to recompile with debug enabled
<lidaobing> mok0, thanks
<mok0> hyperair: are you in contact with upstream?
<hyperair> mok0: unfortunately not.
<hyperair> mok0: however, there is a #codelite on freenode
<mok0> hyperair: a lot of the source files do not have a license statement at the top
<savvas> public domain! :p
<hyperair> mok0: i thought it was pretty much safe to assume it's all GPL. the site says so, as does LICENSE
<slytherin> LucidFox: ping
<handschuh> slytherin: also ping
<slytherin> handschuh: go on
<mok0> hyperair: I know, but if there is no license clause we do not have the right to distribute that file
<hyperair> i see
<handschuh> slytherin: its again about http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java
<hyperair> mok0: in that case should i bug the author?
<LucidFox> slytherin> yes?
<mok0> hyperair: It is a lot of files, I count > 100
<handschuh> slytherin: about the get-orig-source rule
<slytherin> handschuh: I will probably review it from home. Is that fine?
<slytherin> LucidFox: pm?
<handschuh> slytherin: perfectly fine!
<mok0> hyperair: that's around 25%
<LucidFox> uh... why PM? Is it something secret?
<handschuh> slytherin: I just need one more advocate  :-)
<Toobaz> Hello. Somebody here once told me that bugs providing patches waiting for sponsorhip don't get much attention, and it's better to come in chat... so here I am: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drgeo/+bug/257797
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257797 in drgeo "segment fault" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slytherin> LucidFox: yes, but if you are busy, I will ping later.
<Toobaz> it is a crucial bug for the package
<hyperair> mok0: author says he'll fix it =)
<mok0> hyperair: cool!
<slytherin> handschuh: just a quick note. in your build.xml diff, mkdir looks out of place. I suppose it has to be inside some target.
<hyperair> mok0: he's eranif by the way.
<mok0> hyperair: oh, here on freenode?
<hyperair> yes
<hyperair> mok0: he's on #codelite
<LucidFox> I'm not busy, just tired
<handschuh> slytherin: ok I will check this. feel free to ping me, if you have the time
<slytherin> handschuh: another note, I feel the last change you are making (target 'install') should be handled in your packaging, not by patching build.xml.
<slytherin> handschuh: I will quickly put these notes there.
<handschuh> slytherin: Thanks!
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to review my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would be very appreciative. Thanks :)
<mok0> hyperair: otherwise, packaging looks good. I will try to build it now
<hyperair> mok0: thanks
<mok0> hyperair: do you actually need autotools as a build-depends?
<mok0> hyperair: codelite is not much use without gcc. Perhaps the package should depend on it
<hyperair> depend or recomend?
<hyperair> codelite still functions as an editor, just no compilation capability
<mok0> hyperair: but it has debugging capability?
<hyperair> that's gdb
<mok0> Perhaps suggests: then
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> so should i use gcc or shoudl i use build-essential
<hyperair> hmm while i'm at it, i should put subversion as well
<persia> Generally try to keep your depends and recommends as small as is sensible.
<persia> build-essential is fairly large, and codelite probably doesn't use all of it.
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> okay
<mok0> Am I the only one REVUing at the moment? The list seems not to get any shorter :-(
<lidaobing> mok0, maybe, :-(
<mok0> hyperair: the build takes a while... I will submit what we talked about as comments to REVU and move along...
<hyperair> mok0: thanks =)
<mok0> lidaobing: I will take a look at fqterm now
<lidaobing> mok0, thanks
<Toobaz> I see nobody seems to be interested in sponsoring the patch... do you suggest to ask somewhere else or just wait?
 * iulian is going to review some packages in a moment.
<mok0> lidaobing: tell me, what is special about fqterm compared to other terminal emulators? In other words, why do we want it in Ubuntu?
<persia> Toobaz, You've attached it to a bug and subscribed the sponsors queue?
<Toobaz> persia: exactly
<lidaobing> mok0, it is one of the most widely used linux BBS client in China
<persia> Toobaz, In that case, waiting is probably the right step.
<lidaobing> mok0, another is qterm
<mok0> lidaobing: I see. Is it unicode?
<Toobaz> persia: by "sponsors queue" you mean "Ubuntu Sponsors for universe", right?
<persia> Toobaz, If the bug is against a package in universe, yes.
<lidaobing> mok0, it designed for BBS, chinese BBS only in GBK and BIG5 encoding
<Toobaz> persia: yes, Ok, I'll wait, thanks
<mok0> lidaobing: You said: "one of the most widely used linux BBS client in China". Put this information in the description in debian/control, and "it designed for BBS, chinese BBS only in GBK and BIG5 encoding" as well
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<mok0> lidaobing: we want as much useful information in the description as possible, so people can decide if this is software for them.
<lidaobing> mok0, OK, thanks
<mok0> lidaobing: Is Ubuntu getting popular in China?
<lidaobing> mok0, at least it is the most popular distribution in China
<nxvl> mok0: they are about to consider microsoft as the biggest cracker in china
<lidaobing> mok0, but linux only have less than 1% share
<nxvl> mok0: and to sue them
<mok0> lidaobing: Oh, I heard Microsoft only sold 500 vista licenses in China :-P
<lidaobing> mok0, much more
<lidaobing> mok0, the goverment and big company much as a valid operation system
<lidaobing> mok0, s/much/must
<mok0> lidaobing: Ah, yes, that's part of the trade agreement with the US
<lidaobing> mok0, yes
<lidaobing> mok0, as I know, the operation system (Windows XP) is legal.
<lidaobing> mok0, and I still use Linux
<mok0> lidaobing: Imagine how much money the Chinese government could save by using Linux...
<lidaobing> mok0,  as I know, the operation system (Windows XP) in my company is legal
<lidaobing> mok0, Hmm, they don't consider this question. they have much money
<lidaobing> mok0, consider all education system use Windows
<mok0> lidaobing: yes future Windows users :-(
<lidaobing> mok0, and all boys and girls in school only know Windows
<lidaobing> mok0, I am push the widely used Linux software in China to Ubuntu and Debian
<eMerzh> hi all....someone has some time for review my first package waiting in revu? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)
<mok0> lidaobing: great
<mok0> lidaobing: what I said above, also goes for the manpage
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to give any tips on my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would be very appreciative. Thanks :)
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<Laibsch> Is there a kind soul to push https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailgraph/+bug/221010 into -proposed?  The SRU fix is obvious and I think 0 regression potential.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress]
<slytherin> handschuh: does the library actually use any Java 1.5 specific APIs?
<handschuh> slytherin: I think so ... wait
<mok0> lidaobing: there are several authors listed in res/credits that may need to be mentioned in debian/copyright
<handschuh> slytherin: yes it does ... enumerations are beeing used
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<slytherin> handschuh: another round of comments.
<slytherin> I am a bit free to review any java related packages. Are there any more?
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks
<handschuh> slytherin: i have one type more: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libauvitoapiaxis-java  ... there is no comment about cdbs needed (I will fix that for sure) but instead about the "wsdl-only"-package
<handschuh> slytherin: why did you write 3.) ?
<slytherin> handschuh: A convention. And you have used JAVA_HOME as /usr/lib/jvm/default-java in rules file, so ...
<lidaobing> mok0, I need switch back to ubuntu-i386, (my amd64 system is under Debian), if any progress in iptux crash under amd64, send me a email, lidaobing@gmail.com
<mok0> lidaobing: will do
<handschuh> slytherin: I do need at least java 5, and the openjdk-6-jdk rule is needed because it won't build either (because it tries to install the sun jdk by default which fails because of the lack of user input)
<handschuh> slytherin: so the dependency cant be changed
<slytherin> handschuh: Wrong, default-jdk in jaunty is openjdk. So build dependency on default-jdk is just fine.
<handschuh> slytherin: a thats great!
<slytherin> handschuh: please note that arch: all packages are build only on i386, where openjdk is the defaultjdk.
<handschuh> slytherin: do you have some time left on helping me with 2.)?
<slytherin> handschuh: yes.
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks. so I just add a "install" rule?
<handschuh> slytherin: doesn't that override the existing one from cdbs?
<slytherin> handschuh: Let me take a look at how it can be optimized.
<slytherin> handschuh: two ways. 1. write an 'install::' target with simply one line - install balloontip.jar debian/libballoontip-java/usr/share/java/. 2. Create a debian/install file with just one line - ï»¿balloontip.jar debian/libballoontip-java/usr/share/java/.
<slytherin> ï»¿I would prefer 1, since you are creating only one binary package.
<handschuh> slytherin: will do!
<slytherin> handschuh: In case my instructions are not clear enough or I have made some mistake please dig up cdbs documentation on ubuntu wiki. I can't try changes right now to make sure they are working.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, I will upload the new version very soon
<Laibsch> could it be that there is no way to delete superseded packages in a PPA, yet, they still count towards the quota?
<slytherin> handschuh: I may not be available then. Please feel free ask others for comments.
<mok0> Laibsch: superseded packages are removed automatically=
<Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~r0lf/+archive?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=superseded has lots of entries and I can still download from most if not all of them
<mok0> Laibsch: oh yes. Can't you remove them manually?
<Laibsch> no
<Laibsch> I don't see how
<Laibsch> https://launchpad.net/~r0lf/+archive/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=superseded is empty
<mok0> Laibsch: Just above the table of packages, to the right, there is a link called "Delete packages"
<Laibsch> which gives me that link
<mok0> Huh? I get the same list of packages, but with a checkbox at each package
<mok0> Laibsch: I am running edge version
<lidaobing> mok0, fqterm have a interface in English, but it default startup in a Chinese Interface, this is a known bug in http://code.google.com/p/fqterm/issues/detail?id=196
<mok0> Laibsch: there, I just was able to delete a superseded package from my PPA
<mok0> lidaobing: Can you deal with -- and possibly fix -- that bug?
<mok0> lidaobing: the man page is not of much help here ;-)
<lidaobing> mok0, I will try,  but it's a little complex, relative to many code, they still want to a Chinese Interface it user have a Chinese locale
<lidaobing> mok0, I will try to improve manpage
<mok0> lidaobing: Yes document how you can activate the english interface
<lidaobing> mok0, OK
<mok0> lidaobing: I know it is boring to most people to write man pages, but it is really important. The better the man page, the more users you will have
<Laibsch> mok0: nope, sorry.  Whenever I choose superseeded packages from the delete page, the list returns empty.
<Laibsch> Even on edge
<Laibsch> I'll open a support ticket
<mok0> Laibsch: what do you mean "Choose superseded packages" ?
<lidaobing> mok0, maybe I should choose sgml or docbook to write manpage, it's too weird to write manpage in groff
<mok0> lidaobing: what ever you prefer :-)
<lidaobing> mok0, :-)
<Laibsch> mok0: By default you see the published packages.  Then you choose "superseded" status.  that is when the list returns empty for me
<Laibsch> I can show superseded packages
<Laibsch> But from that page as well, when I click on "delete packages", the list returns empty
<mok0> Ah yes, you do the search?
<mok0> No difference for me, when I press "Delete packages" I get the little checkboxes
<mok0> ... To the far left of the screen
<mok0> Laibsch: works perfectly for me
<mok0> Laibsch: I get a little color-changing box saying that the files have been deleted
<mok0> Anyone else up for a REVU?
<Laibsch> mok0: Unfortunately, I don't
<maix> how is that possible? : http://paste.pocoo.org/show/91150/
<Laibsch> mok0: Are you requesting one or offering one?
<Laibsch> REVU, that is
<mok0> Laibsch: I'm offering a review
<maix> i certainly didn't install xulrunner from somewhere else
<quadrispro> RainCT: hi! did you see my last comment on installation-report-generator? -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<mok0> maix: could be pulled in by firefox, perhaps?
<Laibsch> mok0: Do you also have upload privs?
<maix> how? if it is not in the repos?
<mok0> Laibsch: I'm MOTU
<Laibsch> great
<Laibsch> (15:59:22) Laibsch: Is there a kind soul to push https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailgraph/+bug/221010 into -proposed?  The SRU fix is obvious and I think 0 regression potential.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 221010 in mailgraph "homepage for mailgraph has moved" [Low,In progress]
<Laibsch> mok0: Oh, can you also do SRU?
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> Laibsch: no
<Laibsch> ping SRU people
<mok0> Laibsch: I don't think dapper and gutsy are supported anymore
<DktrKranz> Laibsch: pong
<Laibsch> DktrKranz: You can do an SRU?
<DktrKranz> yes
<Laibsch> Can you push 221010?
<mok0> Laibsch: he's the Man
<Laibsch> Great!
<DktrKranz> (any MOTUs could)
<Laibsch> My first
<Laibsch> mok0: said he was MOTU but could not ;-)
<mok0> DktrKranz: it needs a SRU
<mok0> I am just wondering if dapper and gutsy are still supported
<ScottK> mok0: They are
<handschuh> If someone has time, I would be glad if http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java could be reviewed once again
<DktrKranz> well, any MOTU could upload to -proposed
<DktrKranz> and yes, they're supported
<DktrKranz> they just need brave souls to prepare updates ;)
<ScottK> mok0: Speaking of which, did you upload the havp fix you did the other day?
<ScottK> It was the lazy unmount one.
<DktrKranz> Laibsch: I haven't my GPG key here, so I need to postpone it this evening
<mok0> ScottK: No i didn't
<ScottK> mok0: Would you?
<mok0> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> Thanks.
<mok0> ScottK: on it right away
<Laibsch> DktrKranz: Ok, thanks for taking a look.  Maybe mok0 will feel brave enough if you give your blessings.  I think there is 0 regression potential and this is an upload to -proposed.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you please mark a motu-sru ack in Bug #296499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296499 in havp "E: /var/cache/apt/archives/havp_0.86-1ubuntu0.1_i386.deb: le sous-processus nouveau script pre-removal a retournÃ© une erreur de sortie d'Ã©tat 1" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296499
<mok0> ScottK: It seems it didn't help the guy...
<ScottK> mok0: I doubt he knows enough to apply the patch.
<mok0> ScottK: he needs to edit his maintainer scripts in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<ScottK> mok0: I expect he'll need very specific instructions on exactly what to do.
<mok0> ScottK: I'll write a comment for him
<ScottK> Great.
<DktrKranz> I'm not sure what -l flag does
 * DktrKranz checks
<DktrKranz> Laibsch: seems trivial to fix. Is it worth the pain of an upload?
<DktrKranz> I mean, does it produce a crash, or program behaves incorrectly?
<Laibsch> Of course the program doesn't crash
<Laibsch> But basically, I already did the patch.  I don't know how much more pain is left
<Laibsch> The broken link and image certainly are ugly
<Laibsch> how much longer is dapper supported?
<Laibsch> about 2 years?
<DktrKranz> 3 years on desktop platforms
<DktrKranz> so, dapper and gutsy will reach EOL together
<slytherin> mok0: I hope you had actually built libballoontip-java when you advocated it. :-)
<mok0> slytherin: I did
<mok0> slytherin: any problems
<mok0> ?
<slytherin> mok0: No. I am in office so I can not verify if it builds. THat is why I asked.
<mok0> slytherin: let me try the newest version
<Laibsch> DktrKranz: The package in question is a typical server app
<Laibsch> I am looking at bug 227547.  There is a patch already applied to the Intrepid package which looks like http://rafb.net/p/M1npMJ97.html.  Didn't the patcher forget to comment the if-clause as well?  I am in the middle to prepare a debdiff for the hardy version.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<slytherin> handschuh: looks pretty good now. But I can not comment if it builds and produces proper .deb file. I guess mok0 will do that. By the way, you still don't have egt-orig-source target.
<mok0> slytherin: Package builds fine in my jaunty sbuilder. I cannot test the software though
<mok0> handschuh: aahh, the get-orig-source target was a precondition to my advocacy
<slytherin> mok0: Have you tried installing it? or simply open with archive manager and make sure it is not empty. Thanks in advance.
<handschuh> slytherin: yes, the one I created is still very ugly
<handschuh> mok0: ok I will include it right now! (will take a "few" minutes)
<DktrKranz> Laibsch: it's fine, you already provided the patch, so you just need a sponsor. /me lacks browser support to ACK the bug, though
<mok0> slytherin: I don't have a jaunty sytem. Look here: http://pastebin.com/f7dd9c4e7
<mok0> slytherin, handschuh, not so familiar with java, but looks ok to me
<slytherin> mok0: Why do you need jaunty system? It is arch all package and dependencies are minimal, it should install fine on intrepid. Anyway it looks fine.
<handschuh> mok0: it is ok as far as i can tell
<DktrKranz> ScottK: regarding your bug, I have not clear what -l does, I need to better understand it
<ScottK> DktrKranz: mok0 ^^
 * DktrKranz saw a different approach of that bug
<mok0> DktrKranz: it allows umount not to hang
<handschuh> slytherin: is there a smart way of creating it? Or do I have to write every step (like explained in the wiki)
<ScottK> mok0: In any case it should be fixed in Jaunty first, so I'd suggest go ahead with that if you haven't.
<mok0> ScottK: sure
<slytherin> handschuh: I don't know any smart way to create it. Take a look at some existing packages.
<mok0> ScottK: I was sidetracked for a moment
<slytherin> handschuh: If I was at home, I would have helped you create it.
<ScottK> No problem.
<slytherin> handschuh: On a side note, make sure you check both source and binary package with lintian.
<mok0> ScottK: ... I will upload the intrepid version to intrepid-proposed afterwards
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<handschuh> slytherin: ok, thanks
<mok0> ScottK: what's customary, to create a new changelog entry for intrepid-proposed at the top, or simply change the top line of the latest entry?
<handschuh> how is that get-orig-source rule: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71919/  ?
<mok0> handschuh: line 9, you delete ballontip twice
<handschuh> mok0: ok thanks (i just wanted to make sure it is really gone)!
<leonel> ScottK: do you want a 1 diff for all the  patches ??
<mok0> handschuh: it's good to be thorough... :-)
<mok0> handschuh: if you run these lines in a Makefile, remember that each line is spawned as a separate process
<mok0> handschuh: you may want to put a "\" at the end of each line except the last
<handschuh> mok0: ah, thats what "\" means. thanks, I will add it
<mok0> handschuh: yes it's a continuation character, but there must not be spaces after it
<Laibsch> I'm not yet very familiar with debdiff.  What is that stuff after patch2 in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19648945/wordpress_intrepid.debdiff ?
<handschuh> mok0: so http://paste.ubuntu.com/71923/ is ok now?
<mok0> handschuh: I think you should wrap that very long line 8 to fit ~80 chars
<mok0> handschuh: but why are you deleting gpl.txt and README.txt?
<mok0> and MANIFEST.MF?
<handschuh> mok0: the library is lgpl so gpl is not needed, i think; README and MANIFEST are not needed either
<mok0> handschuh: Unless they disturb things, I'd say just leave those files
<handschuh> mok0: allright
<mok0> handschuh: are there non-distributable things in there?
<handschuh> mok0: just the binaries and the eclipse-project file as well as the documentation
<mok0> ah, ok
<mok0> If the only reason for repacking a tar ball is the zip archive, I've seen that people just put the zip archive in the .orig.tar.gz and unpack it in rules
<mok0> It's dumb that dpkg can't deal with zip and bzip2 formats
<Laibsch> somebody feel motivated to look at bug 227547?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<handschuh> mok0: ok so how about now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71936/
<Laibsch> debdiffs provided
<mok0> handschuh: looks good... does it work? I suggest you put in a dh_testdir in the rule, to make sure it is being executed in the right place
<mok0> handschuh: (dh_testdir can be on a line by itself in the rule)
<handschuh> mok0: works perfectly
<mok0> handschuh: good work!
<mok0> handschuh: long day, huh?
<handschuh> mok0: thanks ... I am uploading it right now
<handschuh> mok0: indeed but it is worth it!
<handschuh> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java - there is something wrong with de diff.gz
<handschuh> s/de/the
<mok0> handschuh: yes you still have the builx.xml file in there
<mok0> handschuh: try to delete it before building the source package
<mok0> handschuh: (or regenerate it from the tarball)
<handschuh> mok0: oh thank you (uploaded)
<handschuh> mok0: but why did this work ? the build.xml was like the one from the source
<mok0> handschuh: wanna bet? :-)
<handschuh> mok0: don't want to
<mok0> handschuh: heh, computer is always right...
<handschuh> mok0: :-)    I think I got it now
<handschuh> mok0: damn, cancel review of the latest package, there is an other small build.xml-error
<mok0> handschuh: no problem. Take your time
<pochu> heh, I'm the 15th commenter in REVU even if I don't review anything for a long time :)
<pochu> RainCT: btw, this page looks nice! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py
<pochu> oh, and the 12th advocater :-)
<handschuh> mok0: now, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java could be checked again if time is still available  :-)
<mok0> handschuh: in a minute
<handschuh> mok0: take your time
<AnAnt_> Hello, thanks for sync'ing sl-modem, now I have prepared a new package that adds support for DKMS, what should I do ?
<AnAnt_> I mean, I understand that I will file a bug against sl-modem, and attach the debdiff, but is there something else to do? subscribe someone or add some tags ?
<iulian> NCommander: So you say that bug #297502 will be closed automatically when it hit Intrepid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297502 in svk "Please merge svk 2.0.2-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297502
<iulian> NCommander: If yes please unsubscribe u-u-s from the bug.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<iulian> Hello sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi iulian
<sistpoty> quadrispro: regarding ghc6/darcs: can darcs be synced if we have a newer ghc6? (otherwise, the build-depends can easily be lowered to our version, as reason for it is the change I made for our last ubuntu version, which then got added to the debian version)
<quadrispro> sistpoty: :) hi! mmm i don't remember if darcs can be synced, I'm going to check it...
<sistpoty> hi quadrispro
 * sebner winks sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<quadrispro> sistpoty: yes, it seems darcs could be synced with new version... but I'm not sure...
<sistpoty> quadrispro: did you try to ask the person who last touched it?
<quadrispro> sistpoty: however we can try to build the package with the current version of ghc6
<sistpoty> quadrispro: well, if we can avoid a merge for darcs, I guess you might be able to convince me to upload the ghc6 merge ;)
<quadrispro> sistpoty: *you* are the last uploader for Ubuntu :)
<sistpoty> quadrispro: damn *g*
<sistpoty> quadrispro: the one before, I think I only did a rebuild ;)
<quadrispro> ok, however I can try to build darcs with the current version of ghc6
<sistpoty> quadrispro: oh, cosmetical side not on gtk2hs merge (which I'm uploading atm): if you list subentries in debian/changelog, it's good style to start the dashes at the first letter of the parent entry (example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/71959/)
<sjdurfey> im reading a held classroom session on packaging, and the developer mentioned that the *.diff.gz is a tarball that includes "instructional files to be able to apply ONE build process to all kinds of source packages", what does this mean exactly?
<sistpoty> quadrispro: well, if we *can* sync darcs, we should do this imho, as this will in fact reduce later merging work
<quadrispro> you're right
<quadrispro> ok sistpoty
<quadrispro> i'll let you know
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: the .diff.gz is *not* a tarball, its a compressed patch
<sjdurfey> yeah, i typed that wrong
<quadrispro> sistpoty: now I have to go, thank you very much for your help
<sistpoty> thanks for helping haskell packages in ubuntu quadrispro ;)
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: a source package consists of .orig.tar.gz (the tarball you download as is from upstream) and .diff.gz (which is the debianization of it, in form of a compressed patch) [and the.dsc, which lists what files are part of a debian package]
<NCommander> iulian, er, you closed the wrong bug ...
<frafu> Hello,  Could anybody give me any advice? I am trying to add a gconf schemas file to a python application that uses cdbs for packaging. The setup.py contains the command to place the schemas file into /usr/share/gconf/schemas; andand this is working. My question: how can I make debian/rules register and unregister the keys?
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: so extracting a debian source package pretty much comes down to tar -xvzf orig.tar.gz and then zcat *diff.gz | patch -p0
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: (with some magic in dpkg-source to adjust the directory name)
<sjdurfey> what does -p0 do?
<joaopinto> sjdurfey, man patch :P
<iulian> NCommander: Eh? what bug?
<sjdurfey> alrighty
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: tells to patch to use all directories as found in the files
<sjdurfey> ok
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: with -p<n> you can strip off the first n unwanted directories (just take a look at a patch)
<NCommander> iulian, the one that was tracking the SRU to fix svk in intrepid
<NCommander> You weren't supposed to close that one
<frafu> You can find the debian/rules at  http://paste.ubuntu.com/71962/
<mok0> handschuh: get-orig-source not working for me: http://pastebin.com/f1decf9d4
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<NCommander> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello NCommander
<iulian> NCommander: I can't remember if I closed any bugs.
 * iulian is checking.
<NCommander> iulian, don't worry about it, I'll take care of it
<iulian> NCommander: No, I didn't close any.
<iulian> NCommander: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/svk/+bug/282793/+activity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282793 in svk "Unsatisfied dependencies in SVK" [High,Fix released]
<iulian> Some other guy marked that as Fix Released in Intrepid.
<iulian> NCommander: I think that he saw nxvl's SRU ack and thought that the bug was fixed in Intrepid as well.
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> I guess it got copied into updates
 * NCommander shurgs
<iulian> Huh
<sistpoty> bddebian: what's the correct action for debian bug #504528, request a binNMU? if so where'd I request it?
<ubottu> Debian bug 504528 in libghc6-configfile-dev "libghc6-configfile-dev: Fails to configure: MissingH-1.0.1 doesn't" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/504528
<iulian> NCommander: As far as I can see it didn't get copied into -updates.
<iulian> NCommander: It's just in -proposed.
<NCommander> so no one acked it
<NCommander> -_-;
<bddebian> sistpoty: Hmm, that's a darn good question.  That would probably work.
<sistpoty> bddebian: imho a binNMU should work, but I wouldn't know where to request it?
<sjdurfey> ok, so when "upstream developer" is mentioned, its referring to the Debian developers, and not the Ubuntu developers?
<sistpoty> sjdurfey: could mean anything further up the stream, e.g. debian developers or the people who wrote the program in the first place
<sjdurfey> gotcha
<sjdurfey> thansk
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Masters of the Universe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Jaunty: OPEN. | grab a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, November 28th 20:00 UTC
<bddebian> sistpoty: I don't really know either, sorry :(
<sjdurfey> in the file name, what does "0ubuntu1" mean?
<mok0> sjdurfey: it is the release string. The 0 means that the package is not in Debian only Ubuntu
<sjdurfey> ah ok, that clarifies it for me, the answer i saw in the held classroom setting wasnt very clear, so thank you!
<mok0> sjdurfey: The 1 at the end is a serial number that is incremented every time the package is updated
<mok0> sjdurfey: If a package comes from Debian, it will have a release tag called "-1" or -2 or ...
<mok0> sjdurfey: If we make local modifications to that package, it will be called -1ubuntu1, for example
<sjdurfey> and if the modifications of a debian package only exist in ubuntu, it would be 2.20ubuntu<modification number>?
<sistpoty> slangasek: where could I request a binNMU for debian bug #504528?
<ubottu> Debian bug 504528 in libghc6-configfile-dev "libghc6-configfile-dev: Fails to configure: MissingH-1.0.1 doesn't" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/504528
<mok0> sjdurfey: no, we just append "ubuntu1" to the release string (the part after the final dash)
<sjdurfey> ok, so it would be 2.2ubuntu1?
<mok0> sjdurfey: no, I don't understand what 2.2 is
<sjdurfey> just an example release number
<mok0> sjdurfey: ah, the point the release number indicates a Non-Maintainer upload in debian, in that case, you are right
<sjdurfey> cool, thanks for the clarification mok0 :)
<mok0> -2.2ubuntu1 means second NMU in Debian, first modification in Ubuntu
<sjdurfey> NMU?
<mok0> sjdurfey: I maintainer upload would have an integer release
<mok0> s/I/A
<mok0> NMU = Non-maintainer upload
<sjdurfey> oh ok
<mok0> sjdurfey: someone else than the ordinary maintainer of the package fixed a bug and uploaded
<sjdurfey> is there a place somewhere on ubuntu's site that spells out all the different subtleties in the release scheme?
<iulian> 2.2ubuntu1 can be a native package as well.
<iulian> + Ubuntu changes in this case.
<sistpoty> hm... any known blockers in current jaunty that I should avoid?
<mok0> sjdurfey: try searching the wiki, or the help site
<sjdurfey> will do
<mok0> sjdurfey: just googled my way to this, pretty good explanation: http://www.ducea.com/2006/06/17/ubuntu-package-version-naming-explanation/
<sjdurfey> mok0: thanks, ill def. take a look at it
<sjdurfey> thanks, that was a clear and concise explanation
<mok0> sjdurfey: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<sjdurfey> thanks, ill read through that as well
<sistpoty> anyone wants a package reviewed on revu? please shout now, first one wins ;)
<handschuh> mok0: sry its again about libballoon-java
<mok0> handschuh: did you see my comment?
<handschuh> mok0: I found the small bug in the get-orig-source rule but the other comment is somehow complicated
<mok0> handschuh: you mean about the date of the source?
<handschuh> mok0: the upsream authors only put the 2008.11.14 into the releases dir in cvs
<mok0> handschuh: ok, a daily snapshot?
<mok0> handschuh: if they have anonymous cvs access, you could also use that
<handschuh> mok0: no they just did not want to make it an official release because the only difference to the previous one is the license that is now in every source file
<mok0> handschuh: argh complicated
<handschuh> mok0: it is, but I may convice them to make it an official release  :-)
<mok0> handschuh: but it's in their cvs repo now?
<mok0> handschuh: their latest license update I mean
<handschuh> mok0: it does not look like
<mok0> handschuh: meh
<mok0> handschuh: then this is a one-off kind of distribution
<handschuh> mok0: ah, it is!
<handschuh> mok0: (the currenc sources are in cvs)
<mok0> handschuh: let me send you a get-orig-source script I've done
<mok0> handschuh: that gets stuff from CVS
<handschuh> mok0: that'd be great
<slangasek> sistpoty: emailing debian-release@lists.d.o, I think
<mok0> handschuh: coming via DCC
<bokbaard> apparently i was told to ask here about python2.6 and 8.10 :)
<handschuh> mok0: sorry, my messenger does not yet support file transfers
<sistpoty> slangasek: thanks
<mok0> handschuh: huh, which one are you using? I will pastebin it then
<handschuh> mok0: empathy
<mok0> handschuh: pidgin here
<hyperair> mok0: regarding the codelite package earlier.. make is used pretty much by codelite, but it's under recommends for ubuntu-desktop, so should i include it as suggests or not?
<mok0> handschuh: http://pastebin.com/f67b67e8a
<handschuh> mok0: thank you very much
<mok0> hyperair: Make is a part of the minimal package set afaik, so no need to include it
<ethana2> I just uploaded my first packages to launchpad...
<hyperair> mok0: okay thanks
<ethana2> what kind of time line am I looking at as far as when things start showing up in my PPA, like binary-wise?
<mok0> ethana2: around 4 minutes
<hyperair> ethana2: depends on how long it takes to build
<ethana2> 4 minutes from dsc upload to available binaries?
<mok0> :-)
<ethana2> that's awesome!
<hyperair> i've had longer build times than 4 minutes before
<mok0> ethana2: it is pretty quick
<ethana2> nice.
<mok0> ethana2: the waiting time before it starts compile is pretty short. How soon you will have the binaries naturally depend on how long time it take to compile the package. The build machines are not awfully fast
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/feed.py?package=codelite <-- hrmm.. MOD_PYTHON ERROR
<mok0> siretart: ^^
<sistpoty> RainCT: ^^ ;)
<sistpoty> heh mok0
<directhex> hyperair, eek! quick, port it to asp.net!
<handschuh> mok0: there is no anonymous cvs access, i think (at dev.java.net)
<mok0> Ah, all them nick /me gets confused
<sistpoty> directhex: heh
<hyperair> joker
<mok0> handschuh: :-/
<hyperair> directhex: if mod python's doing that, asp.net would send it up in flames
<hyperair> =p
<mok0> Ah, I have a date with my wife... sushi time!!
<directhex> mok0, kinky
<sistpoty> mok0: have a good meal ;)
<handschuh> mok0: hace fun
<mok0> ;-) see you later!!
<handschuh> s/hace/have
<hyperair> mok0: have fun
<directhex> hyperair, mod_mono and ironpython..... it's foolproof!
<mok0> bye
<hyperair> directhex: no, please no.
<sistpoty> directhex: you can write good code in any language... except brainf*ck and malbolge probably :P
<directhex> sistpoty, how about intercal? i hear that's allowed for obfuscated code contests too
<directhex> sistpoty, and technically there are bf.net compilers, so you could write aspnet pages with it........... o_o
<sistpoty> directhex: oh, heh *g*
<sistpoty> directhex: I thought intercal was an urban legend *g*
<directhex> sistpoty, it has great language constructs like "PLEASE"
<jmarsden|work> See http://www.catb.org/~esr/intercal/
<sistpoty> *g*
<directhex> sistpoty, such as "PLEASE DONT DIE" every few lines to prevent it from randomly spinlocking
<hyperair> directhex: you can't be serious
<sistpoty> directhex: to many "PLEASE"... aborting ;)
<directhex> actually, i think the earliest lolcode compilers are also for .net, if you want to go "I CAN HAS int" or somesuch
<sistpoty> s/to/too/
<slytherin> geser: ping
<hyperair> nothing beats lolcode
<sistpoty> but then of course, we might also port revu to SPL (who were proud that their site was hacked -- at least some attention *g*)
<directhex> spl?
<directhex> bottles.lol(2,0) : error 6: "HAI" expected
<directhex> bottles.lol(17,1) : error 12: "KTHXBYE" expected
<sistpoty> shakespeare programming language
<sistpoty> haha
<directhex> seems lolcode.net doesn't support BTW comments
 * directhex deletes
<directhex> bottles.lol(4,5) : error : Unknown variable: "LOL"
<directhex> bottles.lol(11,9) : error : Unknown variable: "NERFZ"
<directhex> man, this sucks
<hyperair> xD
<ethana2> Can you package a .bashrc and gconf keys in a .deb?
<hyperair> ethana2: nothing that goes inside /home
<hyperair> ethana2: well you can, but it's annoying
<RainCT> ethana2: gconf yes (but don't ask me how :P), and .bashrc I don't know
<ethana2> hmm
<hyperair> ethana2, RainCT: /usr/share/gconf/{defaults,schemas}
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> Is there a place other than .bashrc where one can put bash aliases?
<ethana2> system wide
<ethana2> including recovery boot, excluding scripting namespace
<ethana2> or whatever you call that when..  I suppose that's dash
<slytherin> ethana2: /etc/profile?
<jmarsden|work> ethana2: man bash and see the FILES section.
<hyperair> /etc/profile.d
<ethana2> k
<sjdurfey> ethana2: are you a frequent poster on engadget?
<ethana2> er
<ethana2> that flame war was...
<ethana2> I was tired
<ethana2> I shouldn't post when I'm tired
<ethana2> ...very yes....
<sjdurfey> haha, i see you on there all the time, kinda nifty chatting with someone while their not on there
<hyperair> flame war? i wanna see =O
<ethana2> it's really not one worth defending
<ethana2> I've had better; this one was just a string of misunderstandings
<ethana2> resulting in name calling
<ethana2> ....and cursing
<sjdurfey> goto engadget.com and look at basically any article relating to apple or microsoft
<ethana2> haha
<sjdurfey> ethana2: which post?
<ethana2> hmm
<sjdurfey> which post/article are you referring to on there?
<ethana2> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/12/belkin-switch-to-mac-cable-automatically-switches-you-to-mac-gi/
<ethana2> that's the one that just...    blecch
<ethana2> Now I know what crying is though
<ethana2> evidently it encompasses a large range of activities that are not usually defined as crying
<sjdurfey> haha, ill have to check that out
<ethana2> haha
<ethana2> he got low ranked
<sjdurfey> who did?
<ethana2> Zak
<ethana2> Ok, I'm confused..  it said package upload was successful, but i'm not getting any email and it's not showing up in my ppa
<cprov> ethana2: what is *it* ? dput ?
<ethana2> dput, yes
<directhex> did you dput to the right place, with the right thing in your debian/changelog?
<ethana2> I'm checking my settings, .dput.cf
<cody-somerville> ethana2, what did you type to upload?
<ethana2> yep, pbuilder..
<ethana2> dput uh....
<ethana2> i don't remember
<cody-somerville> ethana2, then upload it again and tell me
<ethana2> ok, i think it was..
<ethana2> dput *source.changes
<hyperair> ethana2: don't do * unless there's only one .changes file there
<hyperair> ethana2: you don't want to reupload old versions
<ethana2> there was only one there
<ethana2> first build
<cprov> ethana2: dput is saying ok only means that the files were upload, not yet processed by launchpad.
<ethana2> yes
<cprov> ethana2: you should receive an email within 5 minutes from lp, saying that you source was either accepted or rejected
<hyperair> ethana2: i love my lenovo
<cprov> ethana2: if you don't, then I can check for something broken
 * hyperair just finished reading ethana2's comments on engadget
<ethana2> cprov: if i receive no email at all, then something is broken in launchpad, you say?
<ethana2> hyperair: I get emotional sometimes regarding Apple....
<hyperair> ethana2: you should either receive an acceptance or rejection email. sometimes it can take long to come
<ethana2> *headdesk*
<ethana2> hyperair: ok
<hyperair> ethana2: i fully understand. i used to be that way too, but that was when i was stupidly advocating windows
<cprov> ethana2: or you haven't followed the PPA-guide correctly
<cprov> ethana2: and forgot to register you gpg key
<ethana2> no, i regesitered it
<ethana2> **meh
<hyperair> ethana2: did you sign your packages?
<ethana2> yep
<hyperair> then it should work
<hyperair> how long have you waited?
<ethana2> i'll just wait for that email
<ethana2> like half an hour
<hyperair> it usually doesn't take that long
<ethana2> well, i have my own reality distortion field
<ethana2> it basically just increases Moore's constant around me
<ethana2> so that even things that /can't/ go wrong do
<slytherin> ethana2: Can't you just find what command you used from bash history?
<ethana2> yes
<ethana2> dput *source.changes
<ethana2> in the pbuilder directory, with only one such file
<slytherin> ethana2: that is your problem I guess. You didn't specify where to upload, by default it uploads to ubuntu archives.
<fabrice_sp> what about dput my-ppa *source.changes?
<slytherin> ethana2: And you don't have upload rights there.
<ethana2> slytherin: incoming = ~ethana2/ubuntu/
<hyperair> ethana2: wait a sec, did you say pbuilder directory? did you build it before uploading? you're supposed to create source packages
<hyperair> launchpad builds it
<ethana2> yes
<ethana2> oh crap
<hyperair> debuild -S
<hyperair> hehehe
<ethana2> ohhhhhh that was my..
<hyperair> so that's the problem
<ethana2> ok sorry
<ethana2> yes, I did a debuild -sa -S
<ethana2> after wiping the files
<ethana2> ...after realizing i couldn't upload binaries to PPA from the pbuilder directory
<ethana2> this all happened last night, my memory.. yeah..
<ethana2> this morning i just ran the upload command that failed last night
<slytherin> ethana2: what you did is correct. Since you have source.changes file. Your upload destination is wrong. Please paste your dput.cf file to pastebin.
<ethana2> 'cause we upgraded my internet connection
 * ethana2 does
<ethana2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/72006/
<hyperair> ethana2: dput my-ppa bla_source.changes
<ethana2> (01:37:16 PM) fabrice_sp: you should have put dput my-ppa *source.changes
<ethana2> sorry, that's a dumb mistake
<ethana2> that should certainly do it.
<hyperair> ethana2: default uploads to ubuntu, whereby you get angry rejection emails saying you don't have upload rights
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> or just silent rejection
<ethana2> evidently
<hyperair> hmm well i haven't gotten silent rejection
<hyperair> anyway ethana2, you only use -sa when .orig.tar.gz doesn't exist on launchpad. if it's been uploaded to ubuntu before you should use -sd
<hyperair> then you get smaller uploads
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> it did not in this case
<ethana2> ..i think
 * ethana2 runs dput correctly this time
<jdong> "Merge dan into jdong"
<jdong> *sigh* I really don't like git's default changelog entries.
<jdong> maybe I'm just reading it  the wrong way.
 * hyperair tries not to burst into a fit of giggles
<jdong> I wonder if upstream would take me seriously if I were to complain ;-)
<hyperair> it would be given low priority i'm sure
<ethana2> ...maybe launchpad is just having a busy day
<hyperair> ethana2: go to #launchpad and bug someone to look at the logs for you
<ethana2> k
<ethana2> hyperair: no response as of yet
<ethana2> ..and I have to take my laptop to class soon....
<frafu> I am trying to add schemas to a python package that uses cdbs. The schemas get installed and registered properly. On removing the package, the gconf keys get also removed from the gconf database (I checked it with the gconf editor) , however the empty directory remains listed in the gconf editor. Could anybody tell me what I am doing wrong or how to also get rid of the empty entry when removing the package?
<frafu> You can have a look at debian/rules at http://paste.ubuntu.com/72027/
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> frafu: "empty directory" ... is that something created by the package?
<frafu> Yes,I mean the entry in the gconf editor that contained the keys; "directory" might not have been the best term.
<frafu> mok0: the schemas are at http://paste.ubuntu.com/72028/
<mok0> Ah, I am not familiar with gconf, but it sounds like it's a problem /feature of that system and not your package
<mok0> I asked about dirs because dpkg is notoriously bad about removing directories of unstalled packages
<frafu> mok0:   the term directory was probably misleading; thanks for looking at it.
<mok0> frafu: It may be relevant to file a bug on gconf
<frafu> mok0: I am new to this; there is a good possibility that it is due to me doing something wrong.
<mok0> frafu: Can you create a small test case?
<frafu> mok0: as I don't know for sure, how schemas should be registered in a python package, I don't really know what I should test. I will have to find other packages to look how they are doing it. Googling has not been very helpful yet.
<mok0> frafu: You should be able to do a "manual" register/un-register from the terminal, of a simple schema??
<frafu> mok0: ok, if it works from the terminal, I know that at least the gconf schemas file is not the culprit. Good idea.
<binarymutant> if anyone has the time to give any tips on my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would be very appreciative. Thanks :)
<handschuh> mok0: thanks again for your comments, I uploaded tha libballoontip-java package again
<handschuh> mok0: I wrote upstream an email to add the 2009-11-14 package as a regular download
<handschuh> s/2009/2008
<mok0> handschuh: cool, did you see my comment?
<mok0> Ah ok
<mok0> handschuh: I hope you appreciate that this work is all in the interest of getting the best possible package
<handschuh> mok0: yes but I hope to convince upstream to create a stanrdard archive
<mok0> handschuh: upstream's are often hard to deal with... :-)
<handschuh> mok0: of course :-)   sorry to bother you with this small package this much
<mok0> handschuh: no no I'm here to help
<mok0> (or at least clarify problems)
<handschuh> mok0: thanks!
<mok0> handschuh: Anyway, I hope this raises your respect for Ubuntu :-)
<handschuh> mok0: it does ... and it raises my respect even more if I think about the fact that ervery package hat to met this standards
<jimcooncat> I'm repackaging monit, and need to bump up the version so apt-get will get my custom package instead of hardy's version "1:4.8.1-2.1" . So what do I change it to?
<mok0> handschuh: heh, well at least it goes for the packages  not coming via Debian
<mok0> jimcooncat: from your own repo?
<jimcooncat> mok0: yes, I made an in-office one
<mok0> jimcooncat: I'd just bump the release info: -2.1 -> -3~jim1
<jimcooncat> thanks mok0 I'll try that
<mok0> jimcooncat: If a version -3 or -3ubuntu appears in the archive, it will override your version
<jimcooncat> mok0: I don't really want that; same if a major version change. It would be cool if I could get notified though. Should I cange it to "1:20.1"?
<webtech_m33> who works on mailscanner ?
<webtech_m33> i am working on a new filter server with 8.10 on it.. clamav is 0.94.1 and now mailscanner says WARNING: Ignoring deprecated option --unrar
<webtech_m33> mailscanner is ver 4.68.8
<mok0> jimcooncat: no, it's better to pin it in apt.conf, then
<mok0> webtech_m33: you want to contact ScottK
<webtech_m33> mmk
<webtech_m33> TY
<tdomhan> does anyone have an example for an ITP bug, in order to get an package into debian?
<ethana2> so I uploaded signed packages earlier, but just now figured out how to upload my gpg key and all that
<ethana2> dput won't let me upload that package again, 'cause it already did it
<ethana2> ...does that mean I don't need to do anything else, and the packages I uploaded before becoming an Ubuntero will show up in my PPA soon?
<jimcooncat> hey it worked!!!! now I need to find a very simple way to sign my packages/repository
<azeem> ethana2: dput just looks at the .upload file; if the upload was successful from the dput POV, but got rejected by the archive, it is likely you will have to run dput again with -f or delete the .upload first
<ethana2> so -f is to force it..
 * ethana2 runs with -f
<ethana2> ok, uploaded...  I guess I'm waiting for an email?
<handschuh> has anyone besides mok0 time to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java ?
<RainCT> handschuh: long description: s/api/API/; avoid lines longer than 80 characters (debian/copyright - the best would be to list each author on a line). Looks fine otherwise (on a first glance), but I don't feel comfortable enough with Java to advocate
<handschuh> RainCT: I will change that
<ethana2> HAHAHAAHAAA my first package is being built!
<RainCT> ethana2: congrats :)
<ethana2> ....but not for PPC.......
<ethana2> If I wanted to contribute processing power from a PS3 to launchpad and start a build service for PPC64, how would I do that?
<RainCT> ethana2: I don't think that's feasible, but you could ask in #launchpad
<ethana2> hrrm
<azeem> how much RAM does a PS3 have?
<ethana2> pbuilder over boinc would be the strangest..
<ethana2> it has 512MB
<ethana2> if you use the vRAM as swap, which we do
<ethana2> a G5 could be better, some IBM server or something
<handschuh> RainCT: fixed it
<RainCT> nhandler: if you want ping me whenever you comment on a package and I'll move it to "needs work" (good work, btw) :)
<RainCT> handschuh: Cool. As I said, I don't know about / am not interested in Java, but I'm sure someone else will have a look :)
<handschuh> RainCT: yes, I know, but if you find something that doesn't fit, let me know
<nhandler> RainCT: It isn't a big deal. It just makes it easier on the other MOTUs to find packages that need work. I actually just got home a few minutes ago, so I haven't started reviewing (although I plan to start now). I'll send you a list of packages later. Although, hopefully, I will soon be able to mark them as needs work myself ;)
<RainCT> nhandler: yeah, I've already found two reviewed by you in the last 5 minutes :P
<nhandler> RainCT: Then they must not be from today. I haven't reviewed anything yet ;)
<RainCT> nhandler: uhm I see.. August 7 XD
<nhandler> RainCT: Is there a reason that non-motu's can't mark a package as needing work?
<RainCT> nhandler: that they may not be correct and that some may fear commenting because they are not sure if they are right and don't want to move it to needs work
<RainCT> nhandler: allowing them to do "recommendation" (which will basically give the package row in the index page a different bg colour so that MOTUs see it) is on my TODO
<nhandler> RainCT: Have you also considered adding a way for a MOTU to say that they are working with the uploader on a certain package?
<RainCT> nhandler: No. Do you have a use case?
<nhandler> RainCT: On a few packages, I have been working with the uploader via IRC (and sometimes email) to get the package ready for the repositories. If there was a way to sort of "assign" myself to the package, that would show other people that someone else is already actively reviewing the package. That way, they won't need to waste their time doubling efforts.
<nhandler> You would probably want to restrict the assignment feature to MOTUs though
<sistpoty> RainCT: oh, do I need to set s.th. to move a package to needs-work nowadays? (jodviewer)
<RainCT> nhandler: what's about leaving a comment saying "do not review until I say so"?
<RainCT> sistpoty: it's only moved if MOTUs comment without advocating, you should know that :P
<sistpoty> RainCT: should != is :P... thanks!
<sistpoty> RainCT: so the cruel sql statement is still in place *g*
<nhandler> RainCT: The comments are not visable on the main package list.
<sistpoty> (cruel as in cruel to read)
<RainCT> sistpoty: of course. do you really believe that I'm going to touch it? :P    (</jk>)
<sistpoty> RainCT: haha
<sistpoty> RainCT: /me blames persia for it in the first place :P
<RainCT> sistpoty: persia?
<RainCT> has he ever touched the REVU code? :P
<sistpoty> RainCT: sure, he had the idea of negative advocations... I just wrapped up a sql statement for it
<RainCT> heh
<nhandler> RainCT: Why do we even allow uploads without a .orig.tar.gz?
<RainCT> nhandler: native packages ^^
<nhandler> RainCT: I thought native packages didn't have the .diff.gz
<RainCT> true
<RainCT> they've a .tar.gz, iirc
<RainCT> wait, that's not the real reason XD
<nhandler> I thought all packages were required to have a .orig.tar.gz.
<nhandler> What is the real reason?
<azeem> nhandler: historical reasons, maybe
<RainCT> nhandler: I ought to modify the post-upload scripts so that uploads without .orig.tar.gz get a link to it if it is already there from a previous upload
<RainCT> (TODO too)
<nhandler> RainCT: Be sure to compare the versions in the changelog to the old .orig.tar.gz (to make sure that they match)
<RainCT> nhandler: MD5/SHA sums :)
<nhandler> RainCT: To check that the changelog hasn't changed?
<RainCT> argh
<RainCT> I should go sleep xD
<nhandler> Good night RainCT
<RainCT> my brain is frozen past midnight XD
<sistpoty> RainCT: heh... I tried to use fdupes on spooky once, but gave up since it took too long *g*
<sistpoty> (regarding .orig.tar.gz files)
<RainCT> sistpoty: can't you tell fdupes to look for files with the same name, and not recursively?
<RainCT> or even to just look at some known locations (which we can generate looking at the db..)
<sistpoty> RainCT: not too sure, I didn't read *all* of the manpage :P
<RainCT> sistpoty: uhm, it isn't that long
<sistpoty> damn, so you caught me as non-manpage reader :P
<RainCT> sistpoty: bÃ¶ser Hun.. er, sistpoty *g*
<sistpoty> hehe
<RainCT> If anyone's up for reviewing, the following packages are REVU Day Targets and need your love:   http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bot-sentry
<nhandler> RainCT: I'll look at banihstypos again once I finish with the package I am currently reviewing
<mok0> RainCT:  I'm done for today, sorry...
<handschuh> mok0: thanks again for your work!
<tdomhan> I would appreciate if someone would look at bot-sentry ;)
<james_w> hi tdomhan
<RainCT> mok0: tomorrow morning is still REVU Day :)
<tdomhan> hi james
<sistpoty> tdomhan: if you're around for a little bit of time, I'll give you a review for bot-sentry ;)
<tdomhan> sistpoty: kk I'll be around for some time
<sistpoty> tdomhan: config.status target: either b-d on autotools-dev or remove the part that copies config.sub/config.guess pelase
<sistpoty> tdomhan: any reason to override LDFLAGS for configure? (that will strip out -bsymbolic-functions, which might be on purpose or not)
<nhandler> Isn't the number in debian/compat meant to match the version of the debhelper Build-Depends in debian/control?
<sistpoty> nhandler: yep
<sistpoty> nhandler: iirc lintian should also warn about this
<nhandler> sistpoty: I thought it did too. However, I didn't get a warning about it when I last checked the package. Oh well.
 * sistpoty shrugs
<tdomhan> I am not shure about LDFLAGS, I think that was the default, wasn't it?
<RainCT> nhandler: not necessarily
<sistpoty> tdomhan: well, the default is to not add any LDFLAGS directive
<RainCT> I think you can force a recent debhelper version (perhaps because you need a newer dh_ command) but use a old compat level (because you may not want/need some of the new features it introduces)
<RainCT> i may be wrong though
<nhandler> RainCT: In your example, you are saying that the Build-Depends for debhelper would be for a more recent version of debhelper than what is listed in debian/compat. That sounds correct. However, I do not believe the opposite is possible
<sistpoty> hm... *using* that scheme would however seem bad to me (old-dh, that would need porting, but then using a new command?) *shrug
<sistpoty> +*
<tdomhan> ok I think the LDFLAGS aren't needed, I will remove them
<sistpoty> tdomhan: /usr/lib/purple-2/*so is meant to be picked up by pidgin?
<RainCT> nhandler: then we think the same :)
<tdomhan> concerning config.status: you mean deleting line 14to19? why aren't they needed? and what do you mean by " b-d on autotools-dev"?
<sistpoty> tdomhan: if you have your debian/rules to eventually update config.sub/config.guess, you should add autotools-dev as a build-dependency
<sistpoty> tdomhan: if it's not needed (since upstream autotools files are kind of up to date), you can delete these bits in debian/rules
<sistpoty> tdomhan: but having these there w.o. a build-dependency on autotools-dev only is of beautification value
<sistpoty> tdomhan: anyway, the package is imho quite good ;)
<tdomhan> sistpoty: thank you, nice too hear. isn't autotools-dev listed under the build dependencies?
<tdomhan> and what is the problem with debhelper and debian/compat, they are both 5 aren't they?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-15
<ScottK> webtech_m33: clamav doesn't support external scanners like used the --unrar option any more.  Because of the licensing of the unrar code in clamav, we can't ship clamav with unrar.
<tdomhan> should mentors.debian.net uploads and/or ITP bugs be linked in the launchpad needs-packaging bug?
<sistpoty> tdomhan: right about autotools-dev :)
<sistpoty> tdomhan: and yes, there's no problem with debhelper/dh_compat for bot-sentry ;)
<tdomhan> sistpoty: ok thank you for reviewing
<sistpoty> tdomhan: thanks for your interest in improving ubuntu ;)
<sistpoty> tdomhan: and sorry, I meant to advocate bot-sentry, but must have clicked wrongly ;)
<tdomhan> sistpoty: the icon here says that you advocated
<sistpoty> tdomhan: well, I just added the advocation actually ;)
<tdomhan> sistpoty: ah I see, ok ty ;)
 * sistpoty is off again... cya
<handschuh> it is still friday somewhere, right? Could anyone check the get-orig-source rule of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java ?
<dmoerner> hi, i just got an email from launchpad that this has happened to an autobuild of my package: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19641953/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.pekwm_0.1.8-1ubuntu1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
<dmoerner> isn't this a problem on launchpad's end?
<wgrant> dmoerner: Yes - chroot problems are never the package's fault.
<wgrant> Well, they are never *that build's* fault.
<wgrant> I'll retry that build, as it got caught in the archive sync race.
<dmoerner> i thought it was for a package i maintain in debian that was being built in jaunty, which would be a real bug
<wgrant> Oh, it's in a PPA?
<dmoerner> it's actually for my ppa so i don't really care
<dmoerner> yeah
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> If you retry it, it will work fine.
<dmoerner> yes i will do that later tonight. thanks.
<wgrant> (you just have to click 'Retry build', not reupload)
<AnAnt> Hello, I have prepared a new package that adds support for DKMS, what should I do ? I understand that I will file a bug against sl-modem, and attach the debdiff, but is there something else to do? subscribe someone or add some tags ?
<cody-somerville> I'm pretty sure we already have support for DKMS. Thanks anyhow.
<AnAnt> cody-somerville: in sl-modem ?
<ScottK> cody-somerville: In sl-modem?
<ScottK> ;-)
<AnAnt> cody-somerville: no, it doesn't I know that !
<cody-somerville> Lies.
<AnAnt> cody-somerville: sl-modem was just sync'ed from Debian, the Debian package doesn't support DKMS
<AnAnt> so, can someone answer my question ?
<cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jdong> ooh I see we got shiny new fglrx in intrepid.
<AnAnt> ok, here it is: bug 298273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298273 in sl-modem "Add DKMS support to sl-modem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298273
<ethana2> It seems the debian maintainer for the package that I built for 8.10..  well
<ethana2> I hope he's not dead, but I have no way to tell
<ethana2> in any case, I'd like to move the package from my PPA to REVU, do I need to re-upload, or is this something that can be done mainly just on launchpad?
<Hobbsee> i think there is an importer, but don't know the details. ncommander would, though
<hyperair> ethana2: so you managed to get it uploaded after all?
<ethana2> hyperair: yep
<hyperair> ethana2: dput revu something
<hyperair> revu isnt connected with the ppas
<ethana2> ah, ok
<hyperair> you'll need to add stuff to .dput.cf though
<ethana2> k
 * ethana2 opens ~/.dput.cf
<wgrant> And you'll need to log into REVU first.
<ethana2> uh
<ethana2> do I have to have another account?
<hyperair> no
<wgrant> Go and see.
<hyperair> it's the same as your launchpad account
<hyperair> you log in with your launchpad openid
<jdong> ha! Firefox, I WIN.
 * jdong disabled fsync and sync. no more bookmark hangs.
<wgrant> jdong: Ooh, where'd you disable that?
<ethana2> ok, logged into REVU
<hyperair> jdong: i want!
<wgrant> ethana2: You can now upload.
<ethana2> wgrant: do I need to add something to .dput.cf ?
<wgrant> ethana2: Yes.
<wgrant> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ethana2> k
<jdong> wgrant: a LD_PRELOAD library http://www.flamingspork.com/projects/libeatmydata/
<ethana2> Since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake), dput is already configured for REVU uploads, with the [revu] entry.
<jdong> basically you shove it to the process you want via LD_PRELOAD and it simply contains a empty sync and fsync call.
<wgrant> jdong: Ah.  I like that name.
<jdong> I don't think it's entirely crackful to do as long as you don't, say, do it with your text editor :)
<ethana2> ethan@home:/var/cache/pbuilder/result$ dput revu *source.changes
<ethana2> Assuming i clear out that directory after every new build, is that command correct?
 * ethana2 runs
<ethana2> ah, right on that page there, sorry
<ethana2> oh, blehh, there I go again, that'--  *shuts up*
<jmarsden> What is the package name in Intrepid that adds mod_security (for apache2) ?  Used to be libapache2-mod-security ??
<wgrant> jmarsden: It's non-free. So it's not in Debian, nor Ubuntu.
<ethana2> medibuntu?
<jmarsden> Even after   http://blog.modsecurity.org/2008/06/modsecurity-lic.html
<jmarsden> Looks like they changed the license specifically to try and make it sufficiently free?
<wgrant> WTF
<wgrant> That's non-free.
<wgrant> You can't make derivatives with that same license.
<wgrant> That is either deliberate or particularly impressive failure.
<jmarsden> I'm no licence lawyer... sounds like they should run their ideas by debian-legal?
<wgrant> Hmm. It's a very confusingly worded exception.
<wgrant> Even for legalese...
<jmarsden> Is there some way to get an "official" ruling on it?  In reasonably finite time?
<wgrant> debian-legal
<jmarsden> OK.
<wgrant> Ew.
<jmarsden> Hmmm.  Someone beat me to it... http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=487431
<wgrant> One has to distribute source on the same medium.
<ubottu> Debian bug 487431 in wnpp "ITP: libapache-mod-security2 -- Tighten web applications security" [Wishlist,Open]
<wgrant> How stupid.
<wgrant> Source for everything linked to it.
<persia> Not entirely stupid, just not in alignment with modern practices.
<wgrant> It also seems you can't distribute a modified version of the Program under the exception.
<wgrant> So AFAICT they have utterly failed.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<jmarsden> The author seems to think they do allow that... per his 03 July comment to http://blog.modsecurity.org/2008/06/modsecurity-lic.html
<wgrant> Given one of the comments, perhaps they mean that derivatives have to be available without the GL2.
<wgrant> Er.
<wgrant> With only the GPL2.
<wgrant> As well as perhaps in a version with the exception.
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> persia: What do you think about that bit?
 * persia reads the relevant language more carefully
<persia> I think that the license exception would allow distribution in non-free or multiverse under a no-patch model.  By my reading, it cannot both be patched and used with Apache.
<persia> That said, the argument for inclusion isn't convincing enough to me that I'd want to ship it in multiverse, as ModSecurity is bound to get a CVE at one point, and we couldn't patch it.
<wgrant> Right.
<persia> On the other hand, if Breach Security were to come to Ubuntu and ask for inclusion, and promise the same sort of active response we have for e.g. Mozilla, I'd not object to them participating, with removal to be expected as soon as they stop.
<persia> In this case, it doesn't really matter who acts as counterparty, as long as there is an actionable contract that such updates will be provided under a license that permits shipping them.
<gouki> I have the following makefile (http://paste.ubuntu.com/72224) and pbuilder is falling because of permission denied (error output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/70859). I was told the problem is in the makefile, but I should not touch the makefile.
<persia> To me the issue is that it's not possible to both ship under the Apache Software License and obey the GPLv2 in all respects for the Program and Derivative work.
<gouki> Any ideas? (sorry for the double line).
<wgrant> I think it's pretty impressive.
<Hobbsee> persia: that would be a pain for stable releases and such
<persia> gouki, patch the Makefile to use DESTDIR rather than /usr/bin in install:
<persia> Hobbsee, which?
<Hobbsee> persia: removals, if we were forbidden from patching it
<Hobbsee> (and Breach Security wasn't active)
<persia> Hobbsee, Right, which is why it would only be acceptable to me to put it in multiverse if there was an actionable contract under which updates were provided.
<gouki> persia, thank you (/me never created a patch). Any pointers?
<wgrant> I wonder if they did this deliberately, or if they managed to accidentally make their license broken in two ways.
<persia> Yeah, well, as with all contracts, it assumes all parties will remain extant.
<Hobbsee> persia: my thought was more "what happens if they break their contract, in the context of released releases?"
<persia> Hobbsee, The counterparty approaches them regarding the breach of contract.  Standard tort law applies.
 * Hobbsee didn't think we did removals from stable releases, at all...unless the standard tort law says that we patch it, in that case?
<persia> It would be a fairly clear violation of DFSG 8, but that's why it would be in multiverse.
<persia> Hobbsee, It only says to follow terms of the contract.  That would be an important clause to add in the contract between Breach Security and whoever was the counterparty.
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, right, i see.
<persia> (well, there are other provisions to e.g. prevent indentured servitude, in most jurisdictions, but we can mostly ignore those)
<wgrant> Anyway, we can probably assume that this license is a big mistake and that they really intend to make their software usable.
<jmarsden> It seems the previous packager of mod_security thinks this is "coming soon": http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2008/09/msg00071.html
<persia> wgrant, Entirely :)  The Intent section makes that very clear.
<wgrant> Unfortunately the last thread on debian-legal didn't get any replies.
<wgrant> So upstream probably doesn't know that their license is borked.
<persia> Well, it's sufficient to provide one-off distribution.
<persia> It's just not sufficiently flexible to provide for security support unless Breach is tracking specific distros.
<persia> If their code has no bugs, it's fine.
 * jmarsden just added a comment to that blog post, pointing at the Debian ITP bug and asking for status...
<persia> (well, fine doesn't mean DFSG-free, but acceptable for multiverse)
<gouki> PackagingGuide doesn't seem to talk much about patching the makefile :S
<persia> gouki, It's not any different than any other patch to upstream.
<persia> Use the same methods you'd use to patch other source files.
<gouki> I have no idea of how that is done. Do you have some URLs about it to share, persia?
<persia> So, depending on how you're doing it, that might mean carrying the diff in a VCS branch, in a patch system, or similar.
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patch%20Systems
<gouki> Thanks
<persia> gouki, Note that patching without a patch system is not recommended unless you are maintaining the packaging in a VCS, as it makes it hard to unwind things later.
<gouki> persia, the need for me to read about bzr arrives :(
<persia> gouki, Only if you wish.  dpatch, quilt, and simple-patchsys remain popular as well.
<gouki> Ohh, OK. Thank you persia.
<hyperair> persia: besides those three, are there any more?
<persia> hyperair, There's the example of calling patch manually in the patch system guide, but I personally don't like it very much.  There's the flexibility to use any method of applying patches you like, and some experimentation, but those three are the primary patch systems in use.
<hyperair> ah i see
<hyperair> well i like quilt =p
<persia> hyperair, Then you should use quilt.
<hyperair> yeah i do, but sometimes i use simple-patchsys when there's just a single patch or so
<nadalizadeh> I'm confused a bit in becoming a MOTU. Reading the wiki, I found that first I should upload packages by a supervisor (where can I find one ?) then I can contribute to universe (when ?). For my first work I want to package a dictionary for stardict.
<persia> nadalizadeh, Basically, the path to MOTU involves having done a fair bit first.
<persia> The criteria on which prospective MOTU are judged are (loosely speaking) technical ability, volume and continuity of contributions, and integration with the community.
<nadalizadeh> persia, So finally whats the first step ?
<persia> So, when getting started, don't worry about MOTU.
<persia> The first steps to contributing to development are usually either new packages or patches for packages.
<persia> I typically recommend working on patches first, simply because I think this provides a gentle introduction to understanding debian format packaging.
<persia> That said, if you want to package a dictionary for stardict, that would be the place to start.
<persia> !packages
<ubottu> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", the "apt:/" URL in KDE, or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 20000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<persia> !new packages
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about new packages
<persia> !newpackages
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<persia> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<persia> So the links provided for newpackages and REVU probably describe things in detail.
<persia> Bascially, just package something, get it on REVU, fix any comments raised, and then it will get pushed to universe.
<nadalizadeh> who will push it into universe ? I mean I somehow know the ubuntu packaging tips and can create the deb files.
<persia> Well, once you get it packaged, and put it on REVU for review, people will comment.
<persia> You need two MOTU to advocate your package, at which point someone (usually the second advocate) will upload it to the repository.
<nadalizadeh> And how and when I can get into the MOTU group ?
<persia> Once you're engaged enough that you've become a peer to the MOTU, people will start prompting you to apply.
<persia> At that point, you send an application to the MOTU Council, and the MOTU debate your application, and the MOTU Council will then vote.
<persia> If the vote is positive, you'll be MOTU.
<persia> This can take a whlie: it was two years for me between my first patch and being MOTU, so I don't recommend worrying about it for a while.
<persia> Some people do it faster, but the key is not to worry about it.
<nadalizadeh> sure, thanks persia
<zebulon> Anyone to help me with some software testing, link: http://fisygradis.sourceforge.net
<handschuh> Could someone check the get-orig-source rule of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java ?
<persia> handschuh, setting variables inside rules is awkward.
<persia> Consider LIBBALLOONTIP_XML ?= above get-orig-source, and the others defined with =
<persia> That way they won't actually be pulled until they are used.
<persia> The watch file URL looks *very* specific.  Do you really expect it to work for the next upstream version?
<persia> Why mv Balloontip balloontip; ?
<persia> Also, why so many \'s.  Better to have separate lines in the rule.
<persia> (and then you don't need the :s
<persia> Err.. ;s
<persia> It also fails the works-from-any-directory test, but most people don't follow that: it's not a significant bug (and fixing it is hard)
<handschuh> persia: thanks for you time.
<handschuh> persia: setting the variables outside of the rule would cause them to be calles
<handschuh> s/calles/called
<persia> No.
<persia> Only if you did :=
<persia> If you do ?= for the uscan call, and = for the other two, they won't get expanded until get-orig-source is called.
<handschuh> so I can set the variables above the rule and they are only called if needed?
<handschuh> great
<handschuh> btw: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
<handschuh> they also define variables inside the get-orig-source-rule
<persia> Which example?  I was sure I fixed that, and I'm not seeing it now.
<handschuh> eyxample 3, "version"
 * persia fixes
<persia> handschuh, Thanks for pointing that out.
<handschuh> no problem
<handschuh> and I was told to add the \'s
<handschuh> therefore the ;'s are needed, too
<persia> Who told you that?  It's abuse of a makefile.
<persia> Make is *not* shell.
<handschuh> I was told that every single line without \ gets a single process
<persia> Yes.
 * persia notices that example 3 shouldn't even work because $version isn't defined at the time it's called
<handschuh> so i have to delete the \ and ; (and the end of a line)
<handschuh> I still don't get why i have to add the get orig source-rule while other packages don't
<persia> Because you're modifying the original tarball.
<handschuh> ok
<handschuh> so what about the \ and ; .... should i delete them?
<handschuh> and put every command in a separate line?
<persia> That's the best way to use make.  It helps with debugging if anything goes wrong, because it processes each command separately.  Otherwise you end up with a notice that get-orig-source didn't work, and no explanation why.
<handschuh> fixed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72299/
<persia> instead of using ``, change to $(shell shell-command)
<persia> That won't actually work (or if it does, it's certainly not by design)
<persia> Remember that make variables belong in $() or ${}: the variable definitions youhave in your variable declarations won't work.
<handschuh> $ or $$ ?
<persia> $() or ${}/  $$ is for shell variables (which these aren't)
<handschuh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/72301/
<persia> When you run it, does it work for you?
<handschuh> how to run it? (I only tested is as a shell file)
<handschuh> btw: looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball again ... there are also \ and ; ...
<persia> Test by calling debian/rules get-orig-source.  That you tested as a shell file is why you are encountering confusion.
<handschuh> it does not rrrun because the variable were not set
<persia> Because you didn't use $(shell shell-command) as suggested.
<handschuh> LIBBALLOONTIP_XML?=$(uscan --force-download --dehs)
<handschuh> is wrong?
<persia> Yes it is.
<handschuh> ah "shell"
<persia> $(...) is the variable named ..., and there's no variable named "uscan --force-download --dehs)
<persia> The special "shell" variable will call a shell with the provided arguments
<persia> Anyway, examples updated to be less bad.
<handschuh> this http://paste.ubuntu.com/72307/ also does not work
<handschuh> it does not get the variables ... not even the first
<handschuh> this http://paste.ubuntu.com/72307/ also does not work
<handschuh> it does not get the variables ... not even the first
<persia> Try commenting out all your lines in get-orig-source, and using echo $(varaiblename) until you get those working, and then add the other lines back.
<mok0> handschuh: line 21, mv needs 2 arguments
<handschuh> mok0: thanks!
<mbudde> Hey, I'm working on updating Meld to version 1.2 but from previous packaging there is both a control and a control.in with the only difference being: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72311/ Does this have any purpose?
<persia> mbudde, control.in theoretically makes it easier to update control.  Update control.in, and see if your changes propagate at source build time.
 * Hobbsee twitches
<persia> Hobbsee?
<mok0> Isn't modification of control etc deprecated?
<handschuh> persia, mok0: how is that http://paste.ubuntu.com/72318/  ?
<Hobbsee> persia: sounds very much like yada.
<Hobbsee> "theoretically making it easier to update"
<handschuh> (it works)
<mbudde> persia, ok, but wouldn't you then only have the control.in and control would be automatically created?
<mok0> handschuh: looks better. Does it work?
<RainCT> mbudde: yep
<RainCT> mbudde: but the last version of it can still be included in the diff.gz
<handschuh> mok0: it works calling "debian/rules get-orig-source"
<persia> mbudde, control is required by policy.
<persia> handschuh, That's the only test that matters.
<mok0> handschuh: great, and you fetch the .zip file manually I guess
<quadrispr0> hi RainCT, did you see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator?
<handschuh> mok0: uscan --force-download fetches it
<mok0> handschuh: Ah
<mbudde> Ok, I get it now.. just tried making a change to control.in and I can see control is automatically updated.. Makes more sense now, thanks! :)
<mok0> handschuh: did upstream provide a new zip file in the proper place?
<handschuh> mok0: yes they do
<mok0> handschuh: good for you!
<persia> Hobbsee, Indeed.
<RainCT> quadrispro: I'll check it later today :)
<quadrispro> ok thank you
<RainCT> quadrispro: you'll still need a second advocate beside mine, though, so better start looking for someone else too :)
<quadrispro> ah ok :)
<handschuh> I uploaded a new version at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java
<NCommander> Morning world
<NCommander> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<NCommander> Hobbsee, how goes it?
<Hobbsee> NCommander: to bed!
 * Hobbsee has work in 8 hours
<NCommander> ouch
<NCommander> Night :-)
<geser> Hi *
<slytherin> geser: hi
<geser> Hi slytherin
<slytherin> geser: pm?
<geser> sure
<handschuh> someone_with_som_free_time: ping
<handschuh> mok0: if you are free, I would be glad if http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java could get its (hopefully) final review
<slytherin> handschuh: geser might help you if he is free.
<handschuh> slytherin: great
<handschuh> geser: are you free now?
<iulian> Hey geser.
 * NCommander is trying to get IPv6 going
<DktrKranz> hi NCommander
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> I've got something for you
<DktrKranz> probably libtool related
<DktrKranz> NCommander, http://hattory.no-ip.info/jaunty/result/liblunar_1.0.1-1ubuntu1/liblunar_1.0.1-1ubuntu1.buildlog
<NCommander> it looks like the install file is out of date
<DktrKranz> not really
<DktrKranz> When I sponsored first version (which failed too), I test-built it
<DktrKranz> and it worked
<DktrKranz> but when I uploaded it... *bang*
<geser> Hi iulian
<geser> handschuh: I'm not really free right now
<DktrKranz> in the meantime, there was a libtool upload
<NCommander> I see
<slytherin> geser: persia: one of those 'ant does not pull in compiler' build failures - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19636916/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.jaranalyzer_1.2-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<persia> slytherin, Surely that's a bug that the package doesn't build-dep on a compiler.
<slytherin> handschuh: by the way, I was wondering why you named the source as libbaloontip-java, you could have kept it as balloontip.
<geser> NCommander: have you an idea what's causing this FBTFS? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19637735/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.dieharder_2.28.1-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> I've seen this in several FTBFS build logs
<persia> slytherin, Remember that Java packages in Debian are *never* build on the buildds, so there's *lots* of Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep issues with many of them.
<slytherin> persia: Actually Debian's ant depends on java-gcj-compat-dev.
<geser> slytherin: I've it on my TODO list already
<persia> Hrm.  Should ours depend on default-jdk or something?
<geser> persia: ant recommends default-jdk
<geser> but that doesn't work on the buildds
<slytherin> persia: that is what I and geser were discussing that few days ago. He has already fixed a similar FTBFS.
 * persia is confused.
<persia> Do the buildds not use recommends-by-default?
<slytherin> So instead of patching all such packages I guess it is better to move default-jdk to Depends
<DktrKranz> persia, IIRC, no
<DktrKranz> not for intrepid, at least
<NCommander> geser, take a number :-) (your looks the most straight fowrad to fix so once I fix my access to ipv6 sites, I'll help you)
<persia> In that case, then I'm in support of making ant Depend on default-jdk.
 * directhex adds default-jdk to Provides: in ikvm, giggles evilly
<geser> NCommander: please tell me how to fix this, so I can fix similar ones and don't need to bother you every time
<NCommander> geser, generally speaking, you need to relibtoolize the package and copy the macros someplace where autotools can find them.
<slytherin> directhex: please don't.
<directhex> slytherin, nah, just kidding.
<handschuh> slytherin: it is just a library and to match the conventions of any other java-library, the name has to be libXXX-java
<directhex> slytherin, other fish to fry at the moment
<slytherin> handschuh: actually the source does not have to be of the form libfoo-java. You can keep it foo and then name binary packages libfoo-java
<handschuh> slytherin: you mean the orig.tar.gz
<handschuh> ?
<directhex> aye. source package name is generally whatever upstream calls it
<slytherin> handschuh: yes, you will also have to modify the debicn/control file accordingly
<handschuh> slytherin: that seems stronly unnecessary to me ...
<handschuh> slytherin: s/stronly/strongly
<persia> directhex, You like ikvm?  Perhaps you'd like to bring it up to date?
<handschuh> slytherin: if we continue like this, no package will never be accepted
<slytherin> handschuh: I am not saying that is necessary. I am just saying it is what we usually follow.
<directhex> persia, nah, only ever used it once to try out. according to the guy who orphaned it, packaging it is... a battle
<persia> directhex, That's a nice way to put it.
<slytherin> handschuh: By the way, I am not a MOTU, so you don't need my opinion to get package accepted.
<directhex> persia, who knows who's listening!
<directhex> persia, if i'm any more rude, then i'll be misquoted on boycottnovell as badmouthing CLR in general
<handschuh> slytherin: but I think you know a lot about java packages, so I wanted to follow your recommondations
<persia> ikvm is CLR-based?
<mok0> handschuh: it seems endless, but you well get there ;)
<directhex> persia, ikvm: /usr/lib/mono/gac/IKVM.GNU.Classpath/0.34.0.4__5a82d6c31a2f8235/IKVM.GNU.Classpath.dll
<persia> handschuh, slytherin is our most active Java packager, and a member of the Debian Java team.  Ignore his modesty :)
<directhex> man, our package really IS ancient
<persia> Yeah!  There's also a few bugs with patches out there.  Needs someone who understands how to make it work (which isn't me).
<directhex> rule #1 of packaging applies even more when dealing with things that are difficult
<persia> It was the subject of my "polishing a package" session during DeveloperWeek, because I was hoping someone would get interested, but that didn't happen.
<persia> Which is that?  Only maintain that which you use?
<directhex> yep
<directhex> not that it applies in ubuntuland, of course ;)
<persia> That's the advantage of updating it behind the cloak of MOTU :)  As long as you improve it a little, nobody expects you to make it really work.
<directhex> if anyone materializes & expresses an interest in it, please do send them our way
<persia> After enough of us touch it, it's typically in fairly good shape.
<slytherin> handschuh: In the past java packagers have made source packages as libfoo-java as well. While there is no set rule for or against it, there days we try to keep source package name same as upstream. So if there are no other problems with your package, you may want to take a MOTU's advice if what I am saying is compulsory.
<soc> hi
<mok0> azeem: ping
<persia> directhex, Sure, although I share your doubts :)
<directhex> although ikvm is probably the closest thing to common ground between pkg-java and pkg-mono
<persia> soc, Welcome
<directhex> and as such, neither of us want it ;)
<persia> soc, Err.  Back :)
<handschuh> slytherin: so I should change in debian/control so Source: balloontip  ?
<soc> i want to uploade some sourcecode to launchpad, provide the debian packaging files and want to have it built online ...
<soc> how would i have to do that?
<handschuh> slytherin: or to balloontip-java ?
<persia> soc, In the repository, or separate?
<persia> handschuh, I'd recommend "baloontip", personally.
<persia> (but with two 'l's)
<soc> persia: as a ppa at first ...
<slytherin> handschuh: balloontip
<soc> i found out that somehow gnome-font-viewer wasn't built for intrepid
<handschuh> persia, slytherin, ok, thanks
<soc> normally it belongs to gnome-control-center
<mok0> handschuh: it's a quick change
<soc> so i want to provide a seperate package for it
<handschuh> mok0: indeed it is ... :-)
<joaopinto> soc, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<slytherin> soc: have you analyzed why it wasn't build?
<directhex> persia, hm, not a good sign, seems dajobe abandoned collaborative maintenance. the version in pkg-cli-apps svn is neolithic
<mok0> OT: have you guys seen http://wikimapia.org/ ?? Pretty awesome
<directhex> persia, actually, we have a new guy (an italian dentists of all things) who's been really attacking out TODO list like you wouldn't believe. once he's done with his current challenge, i might suggest ikvm to him
<mok0> directhex: ah, he's good at drilling into things
<directhex> mok0, indeed
<handschuh> slytherin: I changed the rules and the control but on debuild it tells me that no original source could be found
<directhex> mok0, currently he's tasked with backporting monodoc from trunk, as upstream added a bunch of stuff we asked for to make life easier... except at the same time they also dissolved the monodoc svn module & scattered its ashes to other modules. so it's a big task
<persia> mok0, Interesting.  Luckly I don't live in a defined "place" :)
<soc> slytherin: no, i didn't
<soc> from the gnome-channel: "borschty: got removed, but maybe will come back in 2.26"
<slytherin> handschuh: that is because your .orig.tar.gz still has old name.
<soc> and i think that shouldn't happen, because we lost the ability to view a whole range of files in ubuntu
<slytherin> handschuh: make sure (before uploading) that your get-orig-source target is also modified accordingly.
<handschuh> slytherin: no its balloontip_VERSION.orig.tar.gz
<handschuh> slytherin: but debuild searches for libballoontip-java ...
<directhex> slytherin, so what are the java team's plans for jaunty? anything exciting?
<slytherin> handschuh: what is the name of the folder where you are running debuild?
<handschuh> balloontip
<slytherin> directhex: 1. killall sun-java5-*. 2. add maven support.
<slytherin> directhex: koon is working on 2.
<directhex> what's maven?
<slytherin> handschuh: please paste your control file on pastebin
<nhandler> handschuh: Did you change your changelog file? I'm not sure, but it might be using that
<handschuh> slytherin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72361/
<slytherin> directhex: it's is a build tool. It let's you define build dependencies for your project in a xml file and will then download all the relevant jar's form it's repository.
<handschuh> nhandler: no i did not. Isnt it wrong to do this?
<nhandler> handschuh: Isn't it wrong to do what?
<directhex> slytherin, downloading binaries at build time? the security team will love that :|
<RainCT> actually, the buildd's ahve no connection
<RainCT> *have
<persia> (except Koon has a plan to make maven use our repository rather than a random one: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec )
<handschuh> nhandler: to change the changelog from libballoontip to balloontip
<slytherin> directhex: check the link persia has pasted. We will be modifying maven to use packages form our repository.
<persia> handschuh, When doing initial packaging, almost no change is wrong if it helps get the right result.
<Laibsch> Any kind soul to push my debdiffs from bug 227547?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227547 in wordpress "ubuntu wordpress should suppress the "please update" warning" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227547
<directhex> neato. auto-resolving jars to package names?
<handschuh> nhandler: if I change the changelog, everything works fine
<nhandler> handschuh: Glad to hear that
<slytherin> directhex: something of that sort.
<directhex> clever
<directhex> good luck with it
<handschuh> nhandler: thanks a lot
<nhandler> You're welcome handschuh
<nhandler> Keep up the good work
<persia> directhex, Well, it's not that automated.  it's mostly just symlink hacks to make maven think it already downloaded everything when the build-deps are installed.
<persia> kaaloon was looking at building a proxy that would cause maven requests to turn into apt-get requests, but it was too complicated (for the reasons you mention)
<directhex> persia, ah. good, i was mildly concerned by the idea of dynamically constructed build-deps
<persia> No, it's not that bad.  Check the "How to use maven in a debian package" part of the spec.
<handschuh> nhandler: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=balloontip - but now the name has changed ...
<persia> The only issue is if people want versions we don't ship, but that's the same mess we've worked around in ezinstall for a while now.
<directhex> persia, right.
<persia> directhex, Is there a similar set of madness for mono yet?
<handschuh> slytherin:  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=balloontip ... but now, the name has changed ... will it be presented in the non-src repositories as libballoontip ?
<directhex> persia, nothing which uses online repos for building, no
<directhex> persia, we're gearing up for a major transition which will shrink our footprint, though
<persia> I know python is mostly tamed.  We have a plan to tame java.  Ruby still suffers, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
<persia> footprint shrinking is lovely.  I suppose you're waiting for squeeze?
<directhex> persia, squeeze would be joyous, but for now we have experimental
<slytherin> handschuh: let me check, make rue the bug you logged has updated link.
<directhex> persia, our latest mono is stuck in NEW, and further splits the mono source package into over 90 (!) binary packages
<directhex> persia, on the ubuntu side, mono is now syncable, and after the transition we can dump half the packages from main into universe
 * persia scans http://bts.turmzimmer.net/ to see if sqeeze can be made to release faster
<persia> directhex, source packages or binary packages?
<directhex> persia, binary packages
<persia> Careful with that.  Having binary and source in separate pockets can be a recipe for confusion.
<directhex> persia, shouldn't be, in this instance (and mono is already split between the two)
<persia> In that case it won't be more so :)
<directhex> persia, you know how with mono, there are specific versions of the classlib, rather than versions being backward-compatible?
<directhex> persia, well, in .net generally
 * persia knows almost nothing about .net
<directhex> persia, we're deprecating the .net 1.0 classlib from our packages, and forcing all libs & apps to build against 2.0 - hence removing all 1.0 binary deps which currently inflate the tomboy/f-spot depends
<handschuh> slytherin: ok I added a comment to the launchpad bug that the url has been chnaged
<slytherin> handschuh: I am reviewing the package.
<directhex> persia, we've also further split one package so an app using the Mono.Posix assembly no longer pulls in the dependencies of the other things in the same package, such as sqlite
<nhandler> handschuh: When you are dealing with the binary packages (apt-get install XXX) it will use whatever names you have in your control file for the binary packages
<directhex> persia, total savings should be ~10-20 meg on the jaunty cd image
<handschuh> slytherin: great! thanks a lot
<persia> directhex, Well, something will eat that.
<handschuh> nhandler: ok nice to hear
<persia> Be nifty if it could be a java plugin for the browser, but that would require the same sort of refactoring, which nobody has volunteered to do.
<directhex> persia, sure, something will, but the point is, not us
<persia> directhex, Which is commendable.
<directhex> persia, so the "mono is bloat" argument is diminished ;)
<persia> Well, depends on the viewpoint.  I'm probably still not going to include Mono in MID, but it will be worth another look.
<persia> As much as I like Java, I wish I didn't have to include Java in MID, because lots of people only have 4G storage, so space is at a premium.
<directhex> persia, so right now, there are three parts of the "core" mono stack remaining to transition - mono-debugger, which has seen no love for ages; monodoc, which needs severe backporting from trunk to avoid messy reconstruction of the index .xml file all the time; mono-tools, which build-depends monodoc & contains various little bits & pieces
<directhex> persia, only include mono in MID if there are specific apps to make it worthwhile. including stacks for the sake of it is pointless
<handschuh> slytherin: i have to go now - thanks for you review
<slytherin> persia: filed bug 298400. geser: please don't work on jaranalyzer. Let's get this bug fixed instead.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298400 in ant "Please move default-jdk to 'Depends'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298400
<slytherin> handschuh: see you later.
<persia> directhex, We're currently using gthumb instead of f-spot for example.
<directhex> persia, to avoid mono?
<persia> Well, total impact of gthumb was less than total impact of f-spot.  It wasn't mono-specific.
<persia> With the refactoring, it's probably worth revisiting that decision.
<directhex> numbers would help
<persia> Of course, best would be for someone to write a hildonised photo management app and get it in the repos, but that's more complicated.
<persia> directhex, I don't have them handy, but gthumb had no additional deps, and f-spot had several.  Total size was larger.
<directhex> iirc you should pull about 17 meg off your numbers for f-spot
<directhex> or perhaps that was tomboy
<persia> Which might well make a big difference.
<geser> slytherin: too late, I already uploaded jaranalyzer a few minutes ago
<persia> MID doesn't have tomboy (no desktop means no point to desktop notes)
<slytherin> geser: :-)
<geser> slytherin: I guess it needed to by touched anyway as I also needed to modify JAVA_HOME in debian/rules
<directhex> persia, well, obviously in a small space, you need to make size a priority
<slytherin> geser: right, forgot that part. It should have been /usr/lib/jvm/default-java
<directhex> persia, which java are you shipping?
<slytherin> NCommander: RainCT: can either of you please archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libballoontip-java the source name has changed to balloontip.
<persia> directhex, OpenJDK + extras.
<directhex> christ, that's over a hundred meg on disk isn't it?
<persia> Too many people complain when the Java applets don't work, and that's the least painful alternative.
<RainCT> slytherin: done
<persia> Yes.  It's something like 15% of the image size.
<directhex> persia, flash too, presumably?
<persia> gnash for flash.
<slytherin> geser: by the way, there was an old bug 243214 for moving freeguide to universe. I think it can be acked now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243214 in freeguide "freeguide should be in universe" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243214
<directhex> persia, so... about moonlight then ^_^
<persia> Problem is that people expect MID to have first-class browsing, although given the state of ubiquitous networking, I think most MIDs are more mp3 players, ebooks, etc.
<persia> directhex, Nobody complained loudly enough yet :)
<directhex> WAAAAAAA
<directhex> ;)
<persia> directhex, Get a plugin working on the desktop.  Make sure it works with ferret, and then file a bug.
<directhex> persia, the packaging for SL 1.0 profile is more or less done, and should need no changes for the final release of moonlight 1.0
<directhex> persia, ferret?
<persia> I think that's what it's calleed.
<directhex> fennec?
<persia> MIDbrowser is mostly dead upstream, so we're switching.
<persia> RIght.  Fennec
 * persia doesn't do browser stuff much.
<directhex> ought to be fine. xulrunner 1.9 is xulrunner 1.9
<slytherin> whatever happened to midori? Why isn't that shipped on MID?
<directhex> persia, MID includes things from universe, right?
<persia> directhex, Yep.  It's a universe flavour.
<geser> slytherin: ACKed
<directhex> just checking
<slytherin> geser: thanks.
<directhex> persia, does MID include libavcodec for anything?
<persia> slytherin, Because MIDbrowser was hildonised.  With MIDbrowser upstream less active, other candidates are welcome.  fennec has some support, but if someone makes another hildonised browser, it's a strong contender.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> directhex, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/20081029/ubuntu-mid.manifest was the ship image for intrepid.
<directhex> looks like, then
<directhex> persia, FYI then, jaunty should contain moonlight 1.0, which is all c++ (no mono deps), and uses libavcodec for media support
<slytherin> should revu host package updates? I am talking about http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=stellarium
<persia> directhex, In that case, it just needs to work with the browser.  Does it work with fennec?
<persia> slytherin, No.  I'll clean those up now.
<directhex> persia, is there a ppa with a fennec package? it ought to work with any xul 1.9 browser
<persia> fta, When is fennec hitting REVU?
<fta> persia, i didn't receive much feedbacks so far, so i'm unsure. maybe 1.0 final
<persia> fta, OK.  I'd like to get some testing, but if you think it needs more time to be stable, that makes more sense.
<fta> persia, in the meantime, i'm working with mozilla to upstream my patches
<persia> Cool!
<directhex> oh, what does "uname -a" report on MID, ooi? MID is the image that uses lpia isn't it - does it still show as i386?
<fta> persia, imho, it's already usable as it is
<persia> fta, Your opinion is the one that matters.  Toss it on REVU, grab an ACK, and upload.
<persia> directhex, I'm getting a kernel panic today for reasons I don't entirely understand.  Try it yourself?
<persia> I think it reports "lpia".
<persia> Might report "i686".
<persia> RainCT, Why is cinepaint under "Updated Packages" on REVU?  The old gtk+1.2 package was removed, but the version on REVU is for GTK+2.0
<persia> RainCT, Same question goes for "supercollider".  If someone repackages something that was removed, it would be nice to show it as a candidate for inclusion.
<persia> (note that this likely means upstream died and was revived, or licensing changes or something)
<directhex> persia, it appears my shitty old cpu has no kvm powers. how sucky.
<persia> directhex, Hrm.  Well, ask me in a few days then, as I'm not likely to fuss about the kernel panic until then.
<directhex> persia, you could mail me a new CPU, that would also work
<persia> directhex, Yeah, but that's more effort on my part :)
<directhex> and money!
<persia> money is largely imaginary.  Human effort should be preserved at all costs.
<directhex> perhaps one day there'll be a system that allows you to exchange money for effort. or vice versa!
<persia> money is mostly valuable because you can exchange money for human effort, and vice-versa
<persia> directhex, Like contract work?
<directhex> yeah! neat idea!
<persia> RainCT, conversely, why is "stellarium" *not* listed as an "Updated Package"?
 * persia leaves that one for purposes of SQL query review.
<fta> persia, so far, my branch is tracking a snapshot between a1 and a2 => 1.0~a2~hg20081106r253-0ubuntu1, is it good enough for revu ?
<fta> persia, no idea when a2 is due
<persia> fta, The version isn't so important for REVU, although many people prefer actual releases.  I'm certain you've a working get-orig-source, as I've seen your packaging scripts.
<directhex> fta, a1+
<directhex> not a2~
<directhex> ;)
<persia> fta, The important part is whether you think it's ready.  I'm only asking for it because directhex wanted to test it with moonlight.
<directhex> still booting the kvm image with regular qemu
<persia> directhex, Why?  As long as it's known the next version will be ...a2..., ~a2 is safe.
<fta> directhex, nope, a1+ is not good. internally, it's referred to as 1.0a2pre
<directhex> fta, well, that's okay then
<RainCT> persia: I think REVU is currrently checking the Sources of the current system (ie, Hardy). I'll to change this once I rework all the scripts
<directhex> persia, if it's based on a2, use a2~. if it's based on a1, use a1+!
<persia> directhex, Well, you ought be able to test on a regular system.  Nothing in moonlight or fennec should be arch-specific.
<fta> directhex, trust me, i know how to name versions, especially for mozilla projects ;)
<persia> directhex, Right.  See note above about a2pre
<directhex> okay, desktop is up. how to open a terminal from the funny mid desktop?
<persia> RainCT, Except it's not, because neither supercollider nor cinepaint was in hardy, and stellarium is.
<persia> directhex, Why do you need the funny mid desktop to test fennec?
<persia> Or moonlight, for that matter?
<persia> Oh.  Wrong question.
<persia> I think it's in Accessories.
<RainCT> persia: uhm, weird.. I'll check, I'mm not familiar with that part of REVU yet
<directhex> persia, i wanted to check the arch question. moonlight will, if it fails to render something using its compiled-in codecs (i.e. with libavcodec) offer to download a binary codec pack. i want to know whether than gets the i386 codec pack on MID
<persia> RainCT, That's why I'm not touching those packages for now :)  It's a bit confusing.
<persia> directhex, Ah.  That makes sense.  You probably do want the i386 binary codec pack for lpia.
<directhex> persia, well, exactly
<persia> RainCT, genpo is another interesting package in that respect.
<directhex> persia, and, it seems, uname -m says i686
<directhex> so it should be fine
<directhex> that's what i wanted to check
<persia> Err, except I'm looking at the archived packages when I see genpo.  Ignore that.
 * NCommander laughs evilly
<directhex> evil laughter? been working on mono again?
<NCommander> directhex, better
<NCommander> I'm now connected to Freenode over IPv6
<directhex> using a mono-based irc client?
<NCommander> not yet
<slytherin> directhex: Why are you asking so many questions? Is 'evil laughter' patented? :-P
<directhex> slytherin, if the ubuntu forums are to be believed, only certain classes of developer are allowed to use it
<directhex> slytherin, java devs have halos & harp choruses
<hyperair> directhex: what brought that on
<hyperair> halos and harp choruses? O_o
<directhex> hyperair, java is teh freedoms!
<hyperair> directhex: ...you can't be serious.what freedom?
<directhex> hyperair, freedom from software patents, duh!
<hyperair> directhex: but wasn't java tied to patents until very recently?
<directhex> hyperair, no, only microsoft have patents. everyone else declared them null & void, and danced around a flower circle holding hands
<fta> persia, now i remember. i didn't push fennec because it needs xulrunner-1.9.1, for which i'm waiting for 1.9.1b2
<directhex> hyperair, you haven't been keeping up to date on your software news, man!
<slytherin> hyperair: I don't think problem with java was patent, it was license. Please correct me if I am wrong.
<hyperair> oh er whoops?
<directhex> slytherin, aye. infact, istr the java distribution license is what prevented java from becoming bite-sized & well, less than 100 meg to install
<hyperair> directhex: miserable thing. the programming language is as bloated as the java vm
<hyperair> directhex: you ever tried writing java on paper? it's hell.
<directhex> hyperair, of course. my undergrad degree had a few "write an app to do foo" paper exams
<slytherin> hyperair: Programming language is never bloated. Programs are.
<hyperair> directhex: i just sat for one of those the other day. i disliked java from the beginning, but when i wrote it on paper, i loathed it
<directhex> hyperair, java as a language is okay now (at the time, some things drove me nuts)
<directhex> hyperair, but who would code without an API reference to hand? O_o
<hyperair> slytherin: it's long winded. that's what i mean by bloated
<hyperair> slytherin: so yes, i do mean that the language itself is bloated. two constructors to open a file. my word. ridiculous!
<directhex> at least "int" and "Integer" do the same thing these days. manually boxing & unboxing = pain
<hyperair> directhex: the exam's got no API reference.
<slytherin> directhex: exactly, with api reference in hand, java is programming heaven. :-)
<hyperair> directhex: it's closed-book
<directhex> slytherin, i prefer the semantics of c#, but both are pretty close. my degree was all java
<directhex> slytherin, the manual boxing of raw types is what drove me up the bloody wall
<slytherin> hyperair: java saves you from shooting yourself in the foot. :-P
<hyperair> slytherin: wth a keyboard to type on, it's not SO bad. but when you write at 1/3 the speed you type, and have a time constraint, you begin to loathe it.
<hyperair> slytherin: java makes me want to shoot myself in the head
<slytherin> hyperair: at least you die better. :-P
<hyperair> slytherin: how about programming in something better and NOT dying
<hyperair> slytherin: i like to be optimistic
<directhex> what does hyperair like to program with?
<hyperair> python
<hyperair> or C++
<hyperair> and before you shoot me for liking C++, shoot slytherin for liking java
<slytherin> hyperair: when I tried writing meaningful programs in exams, I got 40 out of 100. I then realised that the problem was at examiner's end.
<directhex> C++ is all the rope in the world
<directhex> good luck not hanging yourself with it
<hyperair> directhex: i won't =)
<hyperair> slytherin: what?
<slytherin> hyperair: It is just that if examiner's don't like to think. They just want to read your program and move ahead. So if they fine something unfamiliar in your program you are likely to fail.
<persia> hyperair, You will.  It's unavoidable.  When you do, code more defensively.
 * slytherin moves to checking if balloontip actually builds.
<hyperair> persia: i still prefer it to java. java makes me want to go to the supermarket, buy some rope, and hang myself. at least C++ lets me hang myself without the effort of buying the rope
<RainCT> lol
<persia> hyperair, I can understand your unhappiness.  My issues with C++ are mostly that I've never seen a C++ program that was safe.  They either mix primitives and objects, or they try to do functional coding in an OO environment.
<persia> It's not that the language is so bad as languages go, it's that I've never encountered a programmer capable of writing safe C++.
<persia> Other environments may be less pleasant, but it's also easier to not shoot yourself.
<hyperair> hmm yeah =\
<hyperair> well what constitutes as safe C++ anyway?
<hyperair> i'm still rather new to C++ so to speak. i mean i've learnt it over 2 yaers ago, but never really got anything done with it yet
<persia> Incapable of segfauting from user-accessible actions.
<hyperair> wait, what?
<hyperair> incapable of segfaulting?
<persia> If you like the syntax and similar, I'd recommend writing in C.  There are several object frameworks for C that are considerably safer than C++.
<hyperair> i like OOP
<hyperair> including the polymorphism and inheritance part
<hyperair> which is why i picked C++ over C
<directhex> i like spending more time with apps, and less time with memory manglement
<hyperair> it's not like i don't know C though, i know it about as well as i know C++ =p
<directhex> hence i like languages with full GC and no need to malloc
<hyperair> i don't like that java has no destructors.
<persia> hyperair, I'm not saying don't use OO in C.  I'm saying that how it's implemented in C++ isn't type-safe.
 * directhex demands OO fortran
<hyperair> persia: sorry if i seem ignorant, but what dyou mean by type-safe?
<persia> ObjC or gobject-style stuff is cleaner.
<persia> hyperair C++ allows you to set a variable to an object, add the integer 0x0001 and then use that as an object reference.
<persia> Since that part of memory isn't an object reference, it bails.
<persia> You can do the same thing with any language, but most other languages make it harder by type-checking the result, rather than bouncing blindly to the offset and executing the code.
<persia> Well, C lets you do it just as unsafely, but C natively doesn't do objects, and the object frameworks do type-checking.
<persia> (well, the better ones, at least)
<directhex> tell you what, hyperair. you write in ironpython, slytherin writes in c#, and you can interop fine via the wonders of CLR! it's foolproof!
 * directhex pretends jython doesn't exist
 * persia notes that it was the basis for the recently announced Java launchpad bindings
 * slytherin feels directhex is a M$ spy.
<hyperair> directhex: what's CLR?
<directhex> really? neato
<directhex> hyperair, common language runtime. like the java vm, but designed to actually support & interop multiple languages
<NCommander> geser, did you solve your FTBFS issue?
<hyperair> mm i see
<directhex> slytherin, sure. they pay me billions in order to package free software
<hyperair> directhex: really?
<slytherin> directhex: I was just kidding. :-)
<directhex> hyperair, nah, course not
<hyperair> directhex: i TOTALLY want to work for microsoft now
<hyperair> ;)
<hyperair> directhex: you didn't really believe i fell for that did you D=
<directhex> okay, just checked, autofoo thinks target_cpu='i686' on ubuntu-mid
<directhex> meaning no problems for moon
<geser> NCommander: didn't have time yet to look at it
<mok0> Where do I find the debootstrap script for jaunty?
<mok0> is it in -backports?
<jpds> mok0: cd /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts && sudo ln -s jaunty intrepid?
<hyperair> jpds: not intrepid jaunty?
<mok0> jpds: I can try that. I just thought there was a version of debootstrap that had the jaunty script in it
<jpds> What hyperair said.
<jpds> mok0: All the other releases just appear to be links to gutsy anyway.
<mok0> jpds: ok, thanks
<hyperair> mok0: it's already a link to gutsy on my system
<hyperair> mok0: and yes it's in -backports
<handschuh> has somebody time to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=balloontip ?
<mok0> hyperair, weird, I activated backports and I don't have it
<hyperair> mok0: maybe your mirror doesn't have it yet.
<mok0> hyperair: good point
<hyperair> 1.0.10ubuntu1~intrepid1
<hyperair> mok0: which mirror are you using?
<slytherin> mok0: why not directly download it from https://packages.ubuntu.com
<NCommander> geser, if you want, I'll handle your FTBFSing package
<mok0> hyperair: perhaps if I activate the main component.... d'Oh!
<geser> NCommander: please do if you have time
<NCommander> geser, which package was it again?
<geser> NCommander: I've to look it up, but there are several FTBFS with a similar error.
<hyperair> mok0: lol
<NCommander> Never fails when we update libtool :-/
 * mok0 happily creating cowbuilders
<geser> NCommander: here is a small list: dieharder, gpsdrive, lib3ds, libm4ri, plib
<NCommander> "dieharder"
<NCommander> O_O;
<slytherin> persia: Do you have some time to review balloontip? I am currently verifying that if package builds. Rest looks fine to me.
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks ... so no objections from your side on creating similar java packages (with different content)?
<slytherin> handschuh: that depends on packages. What are you working on currently?
<handschuh> slytherin: h2database, jaxws, java-excel-api
<slytherin> handschuh: do you plan to get any of those packages in Debian?
<handschuh> slytherin: all of them
<handschuh> slytherin: I just have to travel a bit to get my key signed
<toobaz> is there any way to push a patch reported on a critical bug with importance still "Undecided"? It is already in the ubuntu-universe-sponsors list, but its importance puts it very low on the list, and I'm afraid it will take too much time before it is considered. Please feel free to insult me if this is a stupid fear or if I should address to someone else (but who?) questions about setting the importance of a bugs.
<slytherin> handschuh: Ok. ping me when those are on revu.
<persia> handschuh, I'll take a look at baloontip tomorrow (it's past my bedtime)
<handschuh> slytherin: will do! Thanks
<slytherin> handschuh: you don't need to get your key signed. You can seek sponsorship same way as you do in Ubuntu.
<handschuh> persia: ok, no problem
<persia> toobaz, Bugs in the UUS queue are usually processed as FIFO, rather than by importance.
<toobaz> persia: that's a very good answer, thanks
<persia> toobaz, If it's an SRU for a critical regression already fixed in Jaunty, give the bug number here, and ask for help.
<handschuh> slytherin: oh - didnt know that. I will search for the corresponding page
<slytherin> handschuh: you may want to join debian-java team and get access to pkg-java svn (which contains team managed packages).
<persia> handschuh, mentors.debian.net has a fair bit of info, but you'll probably want to get stuff into pkg-java SVN.
<handschuh> slytherin, persia: thanks for the info
<handschuh> slytherin: java.debian.net is a good place to look at, right?
<toobaz> persia: no, unfortunately it's not fixed in Jaunty, neither in Debian Sid. It's LP #257797, and it totally breaks its package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257797 in drgeo "segment fault" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257797
<slytherin> handschuh: right
<persia> toobaz, Hrm.  I've no suggestions but to wait then, unless some kind soul grabs it from your poke.
<persia> Generally that doesn't happen, to discourage people from poking about every bug.
<toobaz> persia: thanks anyway, but just a doubt: I think Jaunty will just import the debugged package from Debian (I'm following the Debian side of the bug too); is it OK if my debdiff's changelog entry addresses Intrepid?
<persia> toobaz, No.  You'd want intrepid-proposed.
<persia> And it won't get accepted into intrepid-proposed until it's fixed in Jaunty, which might wait on the Debian sync.
<toobaz> persia: so you mean I must address it to Jaunty to get it in reasonable time...
<toobaz> on Debian side everyone is thinking to Lenny, which isn't affected...
<persia> toobaz, Lenny isn't affected, but Jaunty is?
<toobaz> Intrepid and Jaunty are
<persia> toobaz:: Is it just the rebuild required?
<toobaz> it's a bug that is spotted only by newer versions of gcc, but it is a bug indeed.
<toobaz> the patch is minimal but needed
<persia> I didn't realise intrepid had a newer gcc than Jaunty.
<persia> Yes, please fix Jaunty then.
<NCommander> geser, dieharder fixed
<persia> Err. that intrepid had a newer gcc than lenny.
<toobaz> persia: ok, thank you for the clarification (I would never had guessed that I should file a patch for a distro which probably doesn't need it, and not for the one needing it...)
<persia> toobaz, Why doesn't jaunty need it?
<persia> Considering that it's the same binary for drgeo as intrepid, I can't understand why it might be fixed in Jaunty.
<toobaz> not fixed, but certainly imported from Debian before anyone will ask about it
<persia> But since it's not fixed in sid, that doesn't mean anything.
<persia> The idea is to not have something in intrepid and not in jaunty, to avoid the chance of regression.
<persia> What happens if sid isn't updated before DIF?
<toobaz> persia: I'm following the Sid side... but still, if Sid is updated, is sync made only on explicit request?!
<persia> There's ubuntu changes (drgeo | 1.1.0-1ubuntu2 | jaunty/universe | source, amd64, i386).  merge is a manual action.
<toobaz> persia: ok, thanks
<persia> toobaz, For extra points, fix Jaunty, fix Intrepid, get the icon into sid along with your fix, and requset a sync.
<persia> (this may take a couple months)
<toobaz> persia: I will certainly do it. Still, it's sad for the time spent with an unusable package, and it makes me ask you the last question before stopping bothering. What is the base level to be accepted as a MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted isn't really very clear about it. I provided some patches, am maintainer of a package (hopely 2 in Jaunty) from the Debian side... I do not really spend my life on Ubuntu, but from time to time I do help
<persia> toobaz, There's no set criteria.  The two areas considered are community integration and technical knowledge.
<persia> It's rare that someone is approved with less than 10-15 packages, and some people reach 400 before applying.
<persia> (that's package uploads, not maintained packages)
<persia> It's rare that someone is approved if they haven't worked visibly in Ubuntu for a full release cycle, but some people have been approved in as little as six months (and some have been submitting patches since Warty and still aren't MOTU).
<persia> Err.  As little as three months.
<persia> Most applicants have also contributed to Ubuntu development in some other ways, for example working on a QA script, or helping with REVU, or providing assistance to new people, or writing some documentation, or something.
<toobaz> persia: OK, get it. If I have enough time to spend on Jaunty, I will try.
<mok0> Lots of packages in REVU have very useful non-MOTU comments, but unfortunately they still appear in the "Needs Review" queue
<mok0> I am just adding "Please address above comments" to those so they get moved to the "Needs work" queue. Please assist with this, so we can trim down the "Needs review" queue!
<NCommander> mok0, good idea
 * NCommander notes maybe we need a new REVU permission so people can mark things Needs Review, but not Add Advocation.
<mok0> NCommander: We should allow contributors
<mok0> at least
 * NCommander nods
<mok0> Huh?? "libtuxcap" has a comment by persia, but still appears in "Needs Review"????
<DktrKranz> probably, comments on self-uploaded packages aren't considered
<slytherin> mok0: +1. We need 'needs work' permission for UUC
<mok0> DktrKranz: Why would persia make comments on something to fix himself?
<DktrKranz> mok0, I'd comment on my upload, just to state why I did changes. It's uncorrect to tag it "needs review" just because I didn't advocate my package
<DktrKranz> I'll comment on my package, just to see what happens
<mok0> DktrKranz: I am confused. Look at the comments, they look like they're for someone else
<DktrKranz> mh...
<mok0> Another weird entry is ccbuild. It has already been uploaded, it seems. If this is an update for a new version, it should go via LP
<ScottK> NCommander and mok0: I disagree.  UUC is based on community contribution, not technical proficiency.
<NCommander> ScottK, to mark something Needs Work
<NCommander> and that only?
<mok0> ScottK: We need to get a smoother workflow at REVU
<mok0> ScottK: It's clogging up with old entries that have useful comments from non-MOTUs that have not been addressed by uploaders
<mok0> ScottK: We are not talking about advocating
<DktrKranz> anyway, if someone has some spare time: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amule-adunanza
<mok0> amule? That's illegal. Tsk tsk ;-)
<DktrKranz> naah
<DktrKranz> a knife is illegal
 * persia emerges long enough to oppose mok0's suggestion, and recommend that MOTUs who find such comments ACK them to reject, that non-MOTU who leave such comments request ACK in-channel, before wandering off again.
<DktrKranz> but I use it to feed myself with some good meal
 * mok0 attempts to parse persia's sentence
<mok0> persia: many of these are from july-august
<persia> mok0, Then the MOTU are slacking, and shouldn't do that.
<mok0> persia: REVU was neglected throughout the II cycle
<persia> Further, the uploaders don't seem to be paying any attention to the comments, or they would have been reuploaded.
<persia> It's a general failure by several parties, none of whom are those whose permission you are suggesting we change.
<mok0> persia: the uploaders might not have discovered that there is a comment
<persia> Because they didn't look?
<mok0> persia: because they see their entry is still in the "needs review" queue
<persia> We've enough upload & forget that encouraging more by making REVU go faster doesn't help.
<persia> mok0, That's not dilligence, really.
<mok0> We've allowed non-MOTU to make comments, it does not make sense not to value that
<persia> Especially because every comment went to a mailing list, and now it's further possible to subscribe on a per-package basis.
<mok0> It is also not exactly motivating for non-MOTUs to do a job reviewing
<persia> They are valued.  That's why they are permitted.  They comments need review, which is why they don't do anything by default.
<joaopinto> persia, you mean that mailing list constantly getting spammed :) ?
<persia> joaopinto, perhaps.  I only check the web archives, but I never noticed that much spam.
<joaopinto> I only tried it a long time ago, during my first upload attempts, had to unsubscribe because of the spam
<radix> isn't there some kind of notification of new comments?
<persia> mok0, The motivation is supposed to be about helping others.  Not about moving stuff around on a display.  If helping others, or working to make packages better aren't motivations in their own right, I'm not sure those people should be reviewing.
<joaopinto> comment should go to the uploaders, not to an ML
<persia> radix, There is.
<mok0> MOTUs are pressed enough with things to do already. I don't see why we couldn't make use of the help we can get. We only ask uploaders to consider a comment
<persia> joaopinto, It goes to both.
<joaopinto> persia, just if it was implemented on the last monthes...
<persia> mok0, How does rejecting a package from arbitrary commenter help?
<siretart> doing review on REVU is only making me sad
<mok0> persia: it helps getting the packages fixed, plus filters out those where the uploader is inactive
<persia> mok0, Given that I've seen plenty of non-MOTU comments on packages that were flat wrong, or based on cargo-culting, I'm really not excited about the prospect.
<ScottK> mok0: It takes just a moment to review the comment and see if it's sensible.  This is, IMO, better than allowing people with no particular technical background to push packages out of the review queue.
<persia> No it doesn't help get packages fixed.  It only does so if it's correct.
<siretart> there are really people actually trying to submit packages that just install *.jar files without actually compiling them: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv :/
<persia> Many of the packages advocated by MOTU still have issues, so I'm *really* not convinced that non-MOTU won't make mistakes.
<ScottK> mok0: The real answer is ignore the stuff from before October.  Odds are they've been abandoned anyway.
<mok0> DktrKranz: do you remember the scoring system I proposed earlier this year?
<persia> ScottK, Not necessarily.  Best to go through it quickly.  If it has a good comment, ACK the comment.
<joaopinto> ScottK, wrong assumption, I have uploaded a package on August, addressed all the issues, and got no further reviews
<persia> If it doesn't have a comment, check if it's against intrepid, and for other common issues, and leave a short note asking for update.
 * RainCT is also against allowing UUC members to move stuff to "needs work"
<persia> 5 minutes max on each package.
<ScottK> joaopinto: At the very least it needs updated for Jaunty.
<DktrKranz> mok0, probably not, mind remember it to me?
<mok0> DktrKranz: I've forgotten it myself :-P  I'll look it up in my old emails...
<ScottK> joaopinto: I'm sure they aren't all abandoned, but given limited time, I'll focus on stuff someone obviously still cares about.
<joaopinto> ScottK, so it's probably a good idea to notify uploaders about that
<DktrKranz> heh
<ScottK> joaopinto: I agree.  RainCT wanted to do that and got shot down.
<persia> joaopinto, How doesn't the email about Jaunty being open do that?
<joaopinto> ScottK, same here, from an uploader perspective
<persia> I agree that it's not appropriate to ignore old packages, but I don't agree it needs special notice.
<joaopinto> persia, there is nothing on the REVU documentation describing that in case there are no reviewers available for my package I will need to resubmit on the next release
<persia> joaopinto, Yes, but REVU doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It's expected that anyone uploading to REVU is participating in wider Ubutnu development, which surely involves either subscription to ubuntu-devel-announce or casual checking of the archives on a regular basis.
<siretart> joaopinto: no. that point is clear after reading the general ubuntu developer documentation.
<joaopinto> siretart, not really, if that is clear, all the REVU queue should be archived during release change
<persia> joaopinto, I don't like to do that because I think uploaders deserve a better comment than "please update" when the package is pointlessly broken.
<ScottK> persia: But it
<ScottK> ergh
<ScottK> persia: But it's still better, IMO, than nothing, which is what they get now.
 * slytherin leaves. will join later.
<persia> ScottK, The point is that they *shouldn't* get nothing.
<NCommander> persia, CDBS packages are absolutely evil, but I think I got galculator properly split
<persia> I'm still a bit burnt out on REVUing, and don't do more than a couple per REVU day, but there's no good reason for the gap between the top REVUer and the rest of you.
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  Good theory, but the practice appears to be either nothing or some semi-automatic "please update".
<joaopinto> persia, that does not go with your previous statemente, if, as per your words, REVU uploads are subscribed to the lists, and are aware of the need to reupload, why should they need further communication about archiving on release cycle ?
<persia> joaopinto, Because they deserve to have their packages reviewed.
 * ScottK wonders where persia will find the additional reviewers?
<persia> ScottK, I don't really care.
<joaopinto> persia, then, you still be reviewing without the changelog updated to jaunty ?
<persia> If there aren't reviewers, automation doesn't help.
<persia> joaopinto, Yes, but I won't advocate.
<ScottK> Automation at least gives us some filter to decide what to focus on.
<persia> Then again, I've advocated maybe 10 times, out of all my reviews.
<persia> ScottK, How is a newer package better?
<persia> ScottK, An older package may just need s/intrepid/jaunty/
<persia> A new package may have all sorts of problems.
<ScottK> persia: The point is to be able to then ignore the ones that don't get updated and focus limited reviewing resourced where they will be useful.
<siretart> given the amount of junk nowadays on REVU, I agree that we probably should allow any contributor to move packages to the 'needs review' section.
<persia> ScottK, How is recent related to useful?
<joaopinto> persia, it's just an indication that the reviewer is "alive", which seems to be a major issue right now, and causes "alive" users to not get their packages reviewed
<persia> Sometimes when I review a package that is several months old, it gets updated in a couple days.
<joaopinto> ops, i mean, the upload is alive
<siretart> I imagine some kind of 'peer-review' dynamic which prioritizes good packages by itself
<persia> Sometimes when I review a package that was uploaded today, it doesn't get updated for > 3 months.
<persia> joaopinto, Not in my experince.
 * jorgenpt coughs and shuffles his package under the table
<mok0> A different priority algorithm on REVU's listings, that takes into account uploader activity and MOTU activity would definitely help.
<persia> mok0, How does one define "activity"?
<joaopinto> persia, I know at least 8 packages on the current queue from an uploader which is no longer available, I just have 2 to packages which need review, and I am sure I will be delayed by those 8
<persia> It can't be REVU-only, as most work has nothing to do with REVU.
<mok0> E.g. a package with high uploader activity and low MOTU activity gets a high priority
<mok0> persia: activity would be for example, delta time between uploads, quickness to respond to MOTU comments etc
<RainCT> (this is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/revu/+spec/activity-scores, btw)
<mok0> RainCT: Ah yes, there it is :-)
<persia> Oh, I'm not opposed to ranking uploads based in part on responsiveness, although I worry that someone will game it by uploading a lot even when the package it patently broken.
<mok0> persia: that's no different from now
<persia> There were a couple cases in the past where a package would get repushed without addressing core concerns, but with fixes for minor unrelated stuff, and it had to be re-rejected.
<persia> mok0, Hrm?  How can the current algorithm be gamed?
<mok0> persia: upload w/o fixing all problems
<mok0> persia: just to move into the review queue again
<persia> mok0, That puts them at the bottom of the queue though, so it's not quite the same.
<mok0> Hm, my impression is that the queue is processed from the bottom
<persia> Well, people should process it from the top then.
<joaopinto> mok0, I hope not
<persia> Processing from the bottom only makes the perceived problem worse
<mok0> Because many reviewers like the fast ping-pong with the uploader
<handschuh> mok0: indeed!
<persia> mok0, Well, you can't both have few old packages and not process FIFO.  Anything else just means ignoring packages, which is bad.
 * NCommander notes I had the queue ordering reversed so the newest went ontop
<mok0> persia: the topmost entry is from May. It has not been reviewed
<NCommander> that change was backed out
<persia> In fact, reviewing new packages first encourages upload racing by uploaders, which exhausts REVU resources faster.
<persia> mok0, Then review it.  There's surely something wrong with it.
<mok0> persia: exactly why I propose another priority algorithm
<persia> mok0, How does that help the age problem?
<mok0> persia: the most active uploaders should be rewarded. The priority could include a quality grading by MOTU
<persia> No, the most active contributors to Ubuntu should be rewarded.
<persia> Rewarding the most active uploaders encourages people to use REVU and not fix bugs.
<persia> This encourages upload & forget.
<persia> This is counterproductive.
<mok0> persia: Obviously I don't agree with that
<persia> Which part, and precisely why?
<ScottK> persia: With insufficient reviewers, packages will, by definition, get ignored.  The question is not if, but which packages to ignore.
<mok0> persia: I am not advocating a system that I think is counterproductive
<persia> ScottK, Yes, but I have yet to hear a convincing argument that new == good.
<persia> mok0, Do you not agree that upload&forget is counterproductive?
<mok0> persia: I want reviewers to spend time on the best and most active uploaders
<ScottK> persia: New == at least someone will likely be there to respond to the comments.
<persia> ScottK, Is it your experience, from your work with REVU, that recent uploads are more likely to have repeat uploads sooner?
<ScottK> So there is less chance of investing a bunch of time in a detailed review for someone who is no longer listening.
<ScottK> persia: Yes.
<mok0> ScottK: exactly
<persia> Have either of you reviewed significant numbers of older packages?
<ScottK> persia: Not recently, but in previous cycles I have.
<mok0> Why has no one reviewed the first 3 REVU entries?
<handschuh> maybe there should be an automated email to the author of the package if there was a comment added (there is a setting to do this, but it doesnt work)
<RainCT> handschuh: it doesn't? have you activated this in the preferences?
<handschuh> RainCT: "Yes, I want to receive email notifications about everything related to my uploads.
<handschuh> " is checked
<persia> ScottK, Well, it's not been my experience, but then again, I mostly got the queue down to about 1 month maximum, so maybe that made some of the difference.
<handschuh> RainCT: and I never got an email from revu
<RainCT> handschuh: is your preferred address correct?
<joaopinto> what is the major bottleneck right now ? The lack of reviewing, or the lack of activity from uploaders ?
<RainCT> (and have you just got a mail?)
<mok0> joaopinto: both
<handschuh> RainCT: I assume so, at least I get mails from launchpad
<RainCT> joaopinto: the "needs review" queue is significantly longer than "needs work"
<persia> I think the only bottleneck is lack of reviewing.  If it was lack of uploader activity, there wouldn't be a backlog.
<RainCT> handschuh: no, I mean about jaolt (I've just commented on it after subscribing myself, and I got the notification)
<ScottK> joaopinto: Lack of reviewers was the main problem for Intrepid.  We seem to be doing much better so far in Jaunty, but there's always much more to review than we can look at.
<mok0> persia: if you look at the queue, there are instances of individuals having uploaded a series of packages within a few days
<persia> mok0, Yes.
<persia> mok0, How is this relevant?
<mok0> persia: none of those have gotten reviewed.
<persia> mok0, Then review them.
<mok0> persia: Most likely because reviewers avoid then thinking "this guy's gone"
<joaopinto> festor90@gmail.com is no longer available
<handschuh> RainCT: you mean the address that is used for uploading it? It is also correct.
<RainCT> handschuh: no, the address which is displayed in your preferences page
<mok0> persia: I have reviewed stuff here on IRC during REVU days
<persia> mok0, OK.  There's a few things here.  Firstly, I don't like the idea of package ownership.  If there's a good package, and it's aging, anyone can update it.
<persia> Secondly, I think that packages that get repeatedly reviewed by a single reviewer tend to be poor quality.  This makes me especially against any scoring system based on quick response.
<joaopinto> I would limit the nr of pending review packages/user
<mok0> persia: the "needs work" queue does not list the year, but there are some that I think are more than one year old
<handschuh> RainCT: <blank/>
<mok0> persia: e.g. "gcutils"
<joaopinto> to avoid mass uploads
<persia> mok0, I know that not to be true because the queue was cleared on new year's day last year.
<RainCT> handschuh: OK. I need to write some code to get the e-mail address from LP, will do this now
<persia> mok0, The reason the three odd dates are on the top is because they got an advocation before being rejected.
<handschuh> RainCT: ok, thanks a lot :-)
<mok0> persia: I see
<mok0> persia: now you're here, what's up with libtuxcap?
<persia> mok0, I failed to delete a comment, was convinced that an upload would work, and assign to the user in the changelog, discovered this was incorrect, and tried to reject the upload.
<persia> If it didn't reject, please ACK the rejection to get it into needs-work.
<mok0> joaopinto: you suggest we archive festor's packages?
<NCommander> persia, I can delete rejections if need be
<persia> NCommander, Can you delete an upload?
<NCommander> yes
<NCommander> Which one?
<persia> Can you delete my libtux upload and reassign my comment to the previous upload?
<NCommander> oh
<persia> libtuxcap
<mok0> persia: done
<NCommander> I can only delete entire packages
<NCommander> Not individual uploads
<persia> That's different.
<NCommander> Yeah :-P
<persia> It doesn't deserve to be nuked (I can do that).  But the upload would benefit from deletion.
<persia> mok0, Thanks.
<NCommander> Just reverse-apply the debdiff and reupload, I can reassign the original package owner if need be
 * persia really goes away again
<joaopinto> mok0, yes, he is gone
<persia> NCommander, Just reassign it then.  It's a no-change upload.
<RainCT> persia: I'll add a "Remove upload" option to details.py (the code for this should already be there)
 * NCommander hugs RainCT 
<mok0> joaopinto: OK I will archive them
<persia> RainCT, It's a rare enough use case it probably doesn't need a UI, but would be handy to have from the CLI.
 * handschuh thanks RainCT for the delete-option
<mok0> joaopinto: thanks festor's packs are now archived
<ScottK> mok0: Did you mean to knock plasmoid-memusage down into needs work?
<mok0> ScottK: let me take a look...
<mok0> ScottK: It was not intentional, but how could I comment without it moving?
<ScottK> mok0: You can't.
<mok0> ScottK: I would like the guy to work on the default colours though
<ScottK> mok0: I agree, but I think that's an upstream issue.
<mok0> ScottK: Hmm, it could be fixed with a local patch
<mok0> ScottK: Upstream may not like the Kubuntu pallette
<ScottK> mok0: I suppose.  I guess I think it's be better to upload it and file a bug or some such, but up to you.
 * RainCT hugs NCommander and handschuh back
<mok0> ScottK: I can add advocation and it will pop right to the top :-)
<RainCT> mok0: neutral comments are planned
<RainCT> (neutral = don't move the package from where it is)
<mok0> ScottK: what about the font size issue?
<ScottK> mok0: I think that may be a problem on my system.  I've had some other issues and since it didn't affect you, I'm not thinking it should block.
<ScottK> mok0: If you add advocation, then it's ready for upload.
<mok0> ScottK: I am OK with the packaging, the app works, the fact that it's ugly is not a blocker I guess.
<mok0> s/fact/my opinion/
<ScottK> mok0: I think not supporting Kubuntu style would block moving to Main in the default install, but not for getting in, I don't think.
<mok0> ScottK: ok
<mok0> ScottK: It's now at the top
<ScottK> mok0: Just upload it then.
<mok0> ScottK: OK
<RainCT> handschuh: can you try logging in again now, and check if it sets your email address?
 * handschuh hugs RainCT for fixing the email issue this fast
<handschuh> RainCT: so yes, the coorect address is beeing displayed
<RainCT> handschuh: you've got mail, then :)
<handschuh> RainCT: thanks a lot
 * handschuh has to go home now
 * mok0 < dinner
<binarymutant> if anyone has time to review and help with my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would appreciate it a lot, thanks :)
<nellery> Laney: are you still working on the Bug #233963 merge?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 233963 in gnome-chemistry-utils "Please merge gnome-chemistry-utils 0.8.7-2 from Debian/unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/233963
<stefanlsd> RainCT: u were telling me bout geany
<binarymutant> the debian/compat # should be the same as the debhelper version?
<NCommander> bigon, yeah
<NCommander> er binarymutant
<binarymutant> thank NCommander :)
<NCommander> compat is a hint to debhelper to what version it needs to emulate
<binarymutant> okay cool, I thought so but never paid any attention to it. thanks again NCommander :)
<NCommander> binarymutant, its one of those set it and forget things
<binarymutant> is there a way to get the same kind of reviews that REVU does at mentors.debian.net too? Besides the mentors mailing list?
<nhandler> binarymutant: You could ask people in the Debian Mentors channel to look at it
<RainCT> stefanlsd: so?
<binarymutant> nhandler, great idea thanks :)
<nhandler> You're welcome binarymutant.
<NCommander> hey nhandler and RainCT
<nhandler> Hi NCommander
<RainCT> nhandler: hi again
<NCommander> nhandler, I just uploaded package 100 :-)
 * iulian looks around.
<nhandler> NCommander: Package 100 for jaunty? Or in general?
<NCommander> in general
<nhandler> and hi RainCT
<handschuh> NCommander: want to upload pacakge 100? -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=balloontip  :-)
<NCommander> Already uploaded package 100
<NCommander> You'd be 101
<nhandler> NCommander: What are you using to get that number? UTU?
<NCommander> nhandler, Launchpad
<NCommander> nhandler, I've had 100 distinct uploads
<nhandler> Well, last I heard, the LP number isn't always 100% correct. So you very well could have more uploads than that ;)
<handschuh> s/100/101 (sry)
<NCommander> handschuh, what does the patch do?
<nhandler> I'm hoping to NCommander According to LP, I have 200 packages ;) I'm hoping that I will be able to get 300 during the Jaunty dev cycle.
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> nice
<NCommander> handschuh, I need you to add the rational and reason for the patch to the changelog
<NCommander> Add something like this under Inital Release
<NCommander> * debian/patches/build-xml.diff
<NCommander> - This patch does X,Y,Z because of
<NCommander> Or something to that affect
<handschuh> NCommander: ok damn .. I will fix this
<NCommander> (the - should be indented two spaces past *)
<NCommander> There are no other issues, so once you do that, I'll advocate and upload
<NCommander> mok0, ping
<nhandler> handschuh: What patch system are you using?
<NCommander> He's using simple-patch-sys
<handschuh> nhandler: I think its from cdbs
<nhandler> NCommander: I can't remember, does simple-patch-sys expect a description of the patch at the very top?
<nhandler> I know dpatch does
<NCommander> nhandler, only dpatch does
<nhandler> Ok, I couldn't remember. Thanks
<NCommander> nhandler, you can add it on quilt. I dunno about cdbs, but as a general rule of thumb, I require all patches to be noted in changelog
<nhandler> Yeah, having them in the changelog is good. But I still feel having them in the patch makes it much easier to quickly check what a patch is meant to do. That way, you don't need to hunt through a changelog.
<NCommander> nhandler, its helpful on a future merge should debian ever package this
<nhandler> I never said having it in the changelog isn't useful ;)
<handschuh> NCommander: how is that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72529/ ?
<NCommander> handschuh, looks good, but mind adding the reason why you do that?
<handschuh> NCommander: otherwise the build fails because it tires to copy files into bin - I will add that, too
<NCommander> The reason I ask for that is if someone else ever updates the package, they won't know why its there
<nhandler> handschuh: Also, have you considered submitting these packages to Debian?
<handschuh> nhandler: i will do that (submitting)!
<nhandler> Great handschuh.
<NCommander> nhandler, how are you not an MOTU?
<nhandler> NCommander: I applied a few days ago
<nhandler> I have 2 +1's. I am waiting for the third
<handschuh> NCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72532/
<NCommander> nhandler, you need the full six now
<nhandler> Do y/
<nhandler> Do you really?
<NCommander> nhandler, yeah :-/
<nhandler> When did they change that?
<NCommander> August
<NCommander> handschuh, better, but changelog entries can't be more than 80 characters per line
 * nhandler goes to check the archives
<NCommander> You need to line wrap it or lintian will complain
<stefanlsd> RainCT: yeah, i hadnt tried it, but i've been using for some python stuff, and i really like it
<handschuh> NCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72534/   :-)
<NCommander> handschuh, tada!
<NCommander> Upload the package with that to REVU, and I'll look it over one more time
 * handschuh is happy
<NCommander> RainCT, ping
<NCommander> handschuh, ping me once its uploaded and you can see it on REVU
<handschuh> NCommander: it is uploaded
<NCommander> ok, building
<NCommander> handschuh, has anyone explained to you the NEW queue?
<handschuh> NCommander: No
<NCommander> handschuh, ok, when a NEW package is uploaded to Ubuntu, it doesn't automatically enter the archive
<NCommander> It gets stuck in NEW
<NCommander> As the name suggests, its for new and unreviewed packages
<NCommander> the Archive Administrators will review your package, and assuming they don't find anything wrong, add an override to allow it to enter the archive
<NCommander> This process can take up to a week (usually less however)
<handschuh> NCommander: What if they find something they do not like?
<NCommander> handschuh, the package is rejected, and both you and your sponsor will get an email on why
<NCommander> It's pretty rare when a package goes through REVU, and then gets a REJECT
<handschuh> NCommander: ok
<nhandler> NCommander: I just looked at a few MOTU application results for August. They only needed 3 +1's
<NCommander> nhandler, look at mine
 * NCommander might have found another mistake
<nhandler> Yes, they might all have voted, but I don't think it is a requirement
<NCommander> nhandler, I asked
<NCommander> handschuh, Your package generates the binary balloontip-java, but the source package is balloon
<NCommander> Is that by design?
<handschuh> NCommander: I was told to do so
<NCommander> I don't see anything in the comments
<nhandler> NCommander: It was on IRC
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> This is a library, or an application
<handschuh> NCommander library
<NCommander> bah
 * NCommander makes a note to talk to mok0
<NCommander> People need to read the Java packaging manual
<NCommander> YOu need to make a few more changes sadly
<NCommander> oh wait
<NCommander> nm
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I'm trying to figure out why you need -java in the name
<NCommander> And now I know
 * NCommander has never packaged or reviewed a java library, so I'm doing a quick crash course w/ the manual
<handschuh> :-)
<NCommander> handschuh, this is all bytecode, no JNI/native?
<handschuh> NCommander: yes, no JNI
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> handschuh, where do you document your classpath?
<handschuh> NCommander: classpath?
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> Sorry, I can't +1 this just yet
<NCommander> Still needs some more tweaks, but its close
<handschuh> NCommand: I know .. noone cans
<handschuh> NCommander: which I cannot bevieve  ;-)
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> Upstream hasn't versioned the library?
<handschuh> NCommander: just the zip-file they offer for download
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> I need a java packaging expert
<NCommander> The policy states java librarys should be names lib*name*-*fullversion*-java
<handschuh> as a package name?
<handschuh> NCommander: well that doesn't apply to all java packages ...
<nhandler> NCommander: I just looked at smarter's application (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-October/001693.html). That is from October. He only had 3. Somehow, I still think 3 +1's is still the policy
 * NCommander takes a look
<NCommander> I asked geser and nxinternal
<NCommander> ok
<nhandler> Are you sure you understood them correctly? I also haven't seen any message sent to the mailing lists announcing the policy change
<NCommander> Looking at the packages in the archive
<NCommander> nhandler, Yes, I'm sure
<NCommander> handschuh, ok ... hrm
<handschuh> NCommander: if something is even slighly wrong, just tell  :-)
<handschuh> NCommander: I will use this package as a template, so any mistake will be in other packages, too
<NCommander> I don't see anything wrong
<NCommander> Lintian clear
<NCommander> Rules look fine
<sebner> nhandler for MOTU! :D
<NCommander> handschuh, advocated
<nhandler> sebner: Your application is still open too, isn't it?
 * handschuh also wants nhandler to be a MOTU
<nhandler> :)
<handschuh> NCommander: thanks a lot
<handschuh> now I have to talk to mok0 again
<sebner> nhandler: every application is open ;P
<NCommander> handschuh, no, I think I can upload without a second advocation since I had you make such a minor change
<handschuh> mok0: ping
 * NCommander is a REVU admin, but this is the first time I've actually sponsored a REVU upload
<handschuh> NCommander: ah ok, great
 * handschuh is honored 
<handschuh> NCommander: thanks a lot!
<NCommander> handschuh, ok, I can upload it, I just want to retest build it, and then I'll upload
<nhandler> NCommander: Remember to send an email to the mailing list after you upload
<NCommander> nhandler, ?
<NCommander> what mailing list
<nhandler> I believe you are meant to notify the ubuntu-motu mailing list when you upload a revu package
<nhandler> Although it might be the dev mailing list
<sebner> nhandler: both?
<NCommander> nhandler, I don't remember that for codeblocks
<nhandler> sebner: I don't know. I just remember hearing that somewhere. Let me try to find the wiki page
 * sebner thinks he saw 2 mail for codeblocks
<sebner> *mails
<NCommander> sebner, well yes, codeblocks got rejected :-)
<sebner> heh
 * NCommander reminds himself how most packages that get two advocations don't usually get rejected :-P
<NCommander> Yeah .... :-P
<james_w> stefanlsd: hey. Could I ask that you include the new debian/changelog entries in sync requests? It speeds up easy ones a lot. requestsync will automate that.
<NCommander> It doesn't say anything on the wiki
<james_w> NCommander: it is preferred
<NCommander> to motu or devel?
<james_w> it's not always remembered though
<james_w> motu, they are the maintainers
<stefanlsd> james_w: will do
<james_w> stefanlsd: thanks
<nhandler> I thought so, thanks for confirming james_w
<NCommander> handschuh, Your package has been uploaded to Ubuntu Jaunty and is now pending in the NEW queue.
<NCommander> handschuh, Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<james_w> NCommander: forward the NEW email to -motu prefixed with [REVU] please
<handschuh> NCommander: thanks  :-)   more is comming tomorrow  :-)
 * NCommander archives the REVU upload
<NCommander> handschuh, you can see the NEW queue here
<NCommander> NCommander:
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<handschuh> Nice!
 * handschuh feels good now
<RainCT> stefanlsd: cool :)
<RainCT> NCommander: pong
<NCommander> RainCT, too late :-P
<NCommander> handschuh, feel free to ping me if you need a sponsor for NEW or universe/multiverse
<handschuh> NCommander: thanks ... the next package will has proper versioning, i think
<NCommander> yay, more java
<handschuh> NCommander: yes this is all i do  :-)
<NCommander> Try some native code instead :-P
<nhandler> handschuh: Was that the only package holding up jaolt?
<NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19678214/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-armel.newt_0.52.2-11.3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<handschuh> nhandler: unfortunatly not ... there are 4 more missing
<jmarsden> NCommander: Looks good.  I think https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0 has the same effect and is shorter... does the trailing &queue_text= have any real effect on what is displayed?
<NCommander> Anyone beside me bugged that the armel builder pull libraries from Debian ATM?
<NCommander> jmarsden, no idea
<handschuh> NCommander: whats native code?  ;-)
<NCommander> jmarsden, I used to be an admin on FSF Savannah. I have high standards when I review stuff
<jmarsden> OK... Did you just negatively review something I did??
<NCommander> jmarsden, ?
<RainCT_> bah.. hard freeze :/
 * NCommander hasn't reviewed anything aside from handschuh's package
<NCommander> RainCT, I thought we were in soft freeze main-onky
<NCommander> *only
<jmarsden> NCommander: OK... so why did you just say: [13:40:07] <NCommander> jmarsden, I used to be an admin on FSF Savannah. I have high standards when I review stuff
<NCommander> jmarsden, Oh, I'm sorry if that came out wrong
<jmarsden> I'm just not sure why it was addresed to me in particular?
<RainCT> NCommander: what? XD  No, my PC frozed :/
<NCommander> jmarsden, oh, you said "Looks good."
<NCommander> jmarsden, I was responding to that
<jmarsden> Ah, OK.
<RainCT> somehow that's happening quite often lately (and I think I had never seen this before Intrepid) :S
<coppro> my only issue is with fglrx (x won't start with it installed)
 * RainCT waits for the last half hour of irc log to come up on irclogs.ubuntu.com
<NCommander> I find that things have been very stable for me
<RainCT> well, if there wasn't this problem with the freezes and that I can't enter GNOME, this would have been the best release for me, too
<NCommander> RainCT, do you want me to review bot-sentry?
<RainCT> NCommander: sure :)
<sebner> RainCT: GNOME! \o/
<NCommander> RainCT, anything I should look out for on this package specifically?
<james_w> NCommander: I'm on it
<NCommander> james_w, ?
<james_w> NCommander: I'm halfway through a review
<NCommander> oh
<james_w> of bot-sentry
<NCommander> the needs review list is extreme long :-/
<NCommander> handschuh, I recommend if your interested in Ubuntu development, you should also get a feel for triaging bugs, and working towards full MOTU
<handschuh> NCommander: will do that!
<james_w> NCommander: so's the sponsor queue
 * NCommander has been putting a dent in the later
<james_w> tdomhan: uploaded, thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<NCommander> \o/
<tdomhan> james_w: great, thank you :D
<james_w> tdomhan: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bot-sentry is available for you to subscribe
<james_w> and good luck with your quest to find a sponsor in Debian
<geser> NCommander, nhandler: re applications: you need a majority (3 +1 votes) but we (the MC) try to wait till all members had the opportunity to vote before announcing the result
<nhandler> geser: Thanks for clearing that up.
<ScottK> NCommander: Turns out I was totally out to lunch on the libspf2 glibc_private thing.  Magnus Holmgrean (Debian maintainer) sent me a patch.
<NCommander> yay lunch :-P
<ScottK> Just uploaded it.  Have a look.
<NCommander> Another lpia specific evil magic package destoried
<NCommander> wooo
<RainCT> NCommander: what was your question? wheter you've to forward the mail to -motu@?
<NCommander> RainCT, yeah, it was answered
<NCommander> geser, ping
<NCommander> nixternal, ping
<nixternal> NCommander: pongalong
<handschuh> Can I have a package that only has one source file?
<ScottK> handschuh: Yes.
<handschuh> ScottK: ok great, thanks
<RainCT> gouki_: ""I don't want to spend time maintaining an Operating System."   what are you doing here? *g*
<RainCT> gouki_: your website is cool, btw :)
<NCommander> apachelogger, ping?
<binarymutant> if anyone has time to review and help with my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm, I would appreciate it a lot, thanks :)
<persia> binarymutant, Are you sure you can use debhelper 5.0.0?  I seem to remember some python changes during the 5.x cycle which might affect you: it's probably worth double-checking the debhelper changelog.
 * persia processes some UUC applications
<binarymutant> persia, I didn't actually check it out, I was requested to change it by sistpoty for backports; but I'll check it out now
<persia> binarymutant, Well, you're definitely using dh5 style packaging, but you might need something like 5.0.39 or something for the python_central stuff (version is made up, and may not actually reflect a meaningful milestone)
<NCommander> hey persia
<persia> NCommander, Good day.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-16
<binarymutant> does debian/compat not support versions like 5.0.38, only numbers like 5?
<NCommander> binarymutant, it just takes the whole number
<binarymutant> thanks :)
<persia> No, it does support 5.0.38
<persia> Once can do "debhelper (>=5.0.38)" and expect it to work.
<persia> s/Once/One/
 * persia runs out of time, and will process more applications later.
<binarymutant> thanks persia for catching that :) I found the info on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<directhex> kickass, i made boycottnovell front page
<wgrant> directhex: Is that 'kickass' as in 'I can no longer live'?
<binarymutant> directhex, which post?
<directhex> wgrant, no, as in "i am filled with delight at being considered enough of a threat to truth and freedom by some guy who pushes a non-free maths package to warrant a frontpage mention on his blog of lies"
<directhex> binarymutant, http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/15/monument-of-mono/
<wgrant> directhex: Hahaha.
<binarymutant> watching the rms answer right now
<directhex> wgrant, i'm trying to decide whether to comment on his heavily moderated comments or not
<directhex> actually, this is my second time. the first was after i submitted my moonlight ITP
<directhex> ( http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/07/microsoft-influence-in-novell/ )
<binarymutant> I only know of 1 app that uses mono anyways...
<directhex> binarymutant, two in the base ubuntu-desktop install. tomboy && f-spot
<directhex> binarymutant, some others which seem popular, e.g. gnome-do and banshee
<binarymutant> didn't know f-spot used it too, but I don't use it
<binarymutant> I do like tomboy though :)
<directhex> :o HATER OF FREEDOM!
<binarymutant> lols
<binarymutant> this doesn't have anything to do with Greg Kroah-Hartman's keynote does it, directhex
<directhex> not specifically, no
 * hyperair used to use tomboy, but it took up precious panel space so scrapped it 
<wgrant> Has everybody read http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/10/28/why-i-dont-like-canonical/?
<directhex> skim-read and paraphrased. that's even better these days
<binarymutant> idk, Mandrake killed itself imho
<csilk> wgrant, It reads like a rant about he doesn't like the fact Ubuntu has exceled past other distor's (especially mandrake) in an "unfair" manner.
<wgrant> csilk: Yes...
<csilk> just been outside, my fingers are so cold i cant even fell the keyboard never mind type -_-
<csilk> Yeah, he's just hating on Shuttleworth for being rich and providing an obscene amount of cash.
<binarymutant> it's an anti-FLOSS rant
<csilk> Third comment down sums up my opinion, I'd of included more profanity though
<directhex> binarymutant, mandrake indeed committed seppuku
<binarymutant> directhex, yeah I used to love them before they merged with that other company
<directhex> binarymutant, connectiva, was it?
<binarymutant> something like that
<binarymutant> I wonder if drakconf is called drivaconf now
<directhex> i dunno. i was never happy with mandrake as a distro
<binarymutant> it was a great newbie distro at the time, mandrake 9
<directhex> i never really got into Linux until around 2001, 2002. it was hard to justify given how much better BeOS was as an 'alternative OS'
<binarymutant> never touched beos, have you used the new one? I forgot what it's called
<binarymutant> haiku
<directhex> nah. haiku is still working on being where beos was a decade ago
<directhex> which is a shame. beos had a lot of plus points
<directhex> the 10 second boot times, the never-dropping-a-frame-under-load media abilities
<directhex> the simple ui
<directhex> lots
<binarymutant> directhex, d00d what about 5-sec boot w/ linux?
<directhex> binarymutant, this was out of the box, not via massive hax
<binarymutant> that's pretty cool, only x86 arch?
<binarymutant> very cool, I'll have to check it out later thanks for the info directhex
<directhex> binarymutant, beos was ppc and x86
<hyperair> what's the difference between AC_CONFIG_FILES([files]) followed by AC_OUTPUT and just AC_OUTPUT([files])?
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate some critiques of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<Yasumoto> Hey guys, if anyone has a chance to see what we need to do to get this fix uploaded, I'd appreciate it: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomecanvas/+bug/272316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272316 in libgnomecanvas "[regression, intrepid] redraw problems, patches from fedora" [Low,Confirmed]
<devfil> fta: are you working on amsn merge?
<bmm> If anybody is willing to comment, I'm online to reply to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink . Thanks in advance!
<NCommander> bmm, you reference a non-existant manpage in metalink.manpages
<bmm> NCommander: ok, I'm looking into that... thanks!
<NCommander> From first glance it seems ok, but ATM I'm just waking up, so I'll do a more indept review later
<bmm> NCommander: np
<bmm> NCommander: the mapage is generated by the build rule (see grep sgml rules )
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> I didn't catch that
<bmm> Happens if you are just waking up ;)
<bmm> Good morning btw
<NCommander> Thanks
<NCommander> Well, at first glance, nothing is jumping out at me
<Laibsch> good morning.  I am trying to help with getting OOo3 into good shape for ubuntu.  I use my PPA to compile it.  calc has already done it for Intrepid and now I want to see if it can be done for hardy
<NCommander> bmm, it's an extreme nitpick, but I would put a linebreak in the control file, between the two seperate paragraphs
<Laibsch> There are a number of build-time deps that need to be backported to hardy.  What I did so far is an iteration of "prepare sources, upload, wait for dependency error, backport, retry".  Isn't there a faster way to check for build-time dependencies that cannot be satisfied?
<bmm> NCommander: done, I've added "\n  .\n" between the two paragraphs.
<bmm> Laibsch: pbuilder might be faster?
<NCommander> no, thats not how you do it
<NCommander> bmm, here, let me post how
<Laibsch> bmm: You mean pbuilder locally?
<NCommander> bmm, http://pastebin.ca/1257537
<bmm> Laibsch: yes. But I'm a still a beginner :)
<NCommander> In the description, to do a linespace, its a space, then a period
<bmm> NCommander: haha, that's what I meant: a return, a space, a dot and another return :D
<Laibsch> bmm: There is a problem with the number of packages I already backported.  I don't think they will be considered by the build.
<NCommander> Ah
<Laibsch> bmm: plus, I am afraid, the build will likely overwhelm my machine
<Laibsch> it is a very small and old one
<NCommander> bmm, its just a style thing, but its easier to read in synaptic when its not WALL OF TEXT
<bmm> NCommander: I agree, it looks better. If you want me to do the new upload let me know, otherwise I'm going to wait a few minutes so I can collect some more comments.
<NCommander> bmm, sure, no issue
<bmm> Laibsch: you can probably get a list of packages and versions somewhere and check them using "grep", by hand. Or check every package at packages.ubuntu.com (again, by hand)
<Laibsch> I just read https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Using packages from other distributions
<Laibsch> (anchor broken)
<Laibsch> Given an orig.tar, dsc and diff.gz file, what is the fastest way to arrive at a .changes file (which I think is necessary for upload with dput)?
<slytherin> Laibsch: dpkg-source -x *.dsc then go into the folder and do debuild -s -Sa
<Laibsch> OK, that is basically what I do now
<yaloki> directhex: you mean you have neighborlee hang around on ubuntu channels now ? (wrt comment on my blog)
<Laibsch> I thought there was something faster, not involving unpacking
<Laibsch> slytherin: I think dpkg-buildpackage instead of debuild is already a bit faster
<slytherin> Laibsch: never used it.
<slytherin> persia: there?
<persia> slytherin, partially
<slytherin> persia: need one advice. As I said I planned to package jmeter. But I am stuck at a point where one commons library needs update. I made update in pkg-java svn and asked for sponsorship. I have not received any response.
<slytherin> Should I work on this in jaunty then? And later port packages to Debian?
<persia> slytherin, Given the Lenny freeze, you're probably stuck.  Toss an Ubuntu revision on REVU, and request a sync when your Debian upload happens.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> Were Debian not frozen, that wouldn't be my advice, but it's probably the fastest path right now.
<persia> Use Vcs-* pointing at alioth just to make things clear.
<slytherin> hmm
<chrisccoulson> ping DktrKranz
<slytherin> I will start working with a modified chroot with this updated library. So by the time I finish the jmeter package I hope lenny will be out of door.
<persia> slytherin, That works.  Use the alternate plan if you get stuck.
<persia> chrisccoulson, It's *always* better to provide context with a ping.  It's often useful to just ask questions in case someone else has an answer.
<chrisccoulson> no problem;) i wanted to speak about bug 294260 actually
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294260 in hwinfo "Please merge hwinfo 15.3-1 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/294260
<chrisccoulson> he asked if we needed the ubuntu change, which fixed a FTBFS on i386
<chrisccoulson> we still need the change (i just tried it again)
<persia> chrisccoulson, For that sort of thing, best to comment in the bug, verify the status, and make sure the sponsors are subscribed.
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'll do that. i just thought it might be quicker on here;)
<persia> Can be if it's worth discussing something.
<persia> When you've confirmed a question, and it's clearly ready for upload, it rarely makes a difference.
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<persia> So, the general rule is, when there's a need for interaction, come here.  When it's clear-cut, and just needs processing, the bug is probably better (because it doesn't rely on who is around)
<chrisccoulson> i'll bear that in mind
<DktrKranz> chrisccoulson, pong
<chrisccoulson> hi
<chrisccoulson> you've probably seen the conversation above ;)
<DktrKranz> oh, hwinfo
<chrisccoulson> thats the one
<chrisccoulson> it still fails to build on i386 without the ubuntu change
<DktrKranz> "which fixed a FTBFS on i386", I test-built it on amd64, so I overlooked the change
 * DktrKranz fires up i386 pbuilder
<chrisccoulson> thats ok;)
<DktrKranz> thanks for catching up
<slytherin> persia: your ack needed, bug 298535
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298535 in javassist "Please sync javassist 1:3.8.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298535
<persia> slytherin, I've a fairly steep queue right now, which is why I answered "partially" earlier.  I'll try to hit it in the next 3-4 hours.  If I miss, I'll try again later, but you might also want to poke others.
<slytherin> persia: Oh. No hurry. Take all the time you want.
<bmm> NCommander: I've gone ahead and done a new upload with the extra line between the paragraphs. If you found anything else, let me know or post a comment on REVU. Thanks!
 * NCommander nods
<mok0> azeem: ping
<StevenHarperUK> hi - will my bug get backported : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903 or is something not set right
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<DktrKranz> chrisccoulson: sponsored, thanks (and sorry for the noise)
<chrisccoulson> thats ok:) thanks
<azeem> mok0: pong
<azeem> mok0: oh, nevermind, probably
<mok0> azeem: yes :-)
<mok0> azeem: just sent you an email this very minute
<iulian> Hi
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate some critiques of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<slytherin> binarymutant: what is the package about?
<binarymutant> slytherin, its a livejournal client for the terminal/console
<slytherin> hmm
<devfil> why revu doesn't recognize me as MOTU?
<persia> devfil, because the permissions bit is odd.  Let me see if I can force it, or if that's still broken.
<persia> devfil, Did you register an email address at REVU?  If so, which?
<devfil> persia: d.filoni@techemail.com if I remember right
<persia> devfil, I don't think I can do anything, sorry.  The alter_user.py file is gone.  There's still an alter_user.pyc, but I'm not sure it's going to work cleanly.
<persia> Could a REVU Hacker please explain how to resolve permissions issues for MOTU?  This is the second case where I can't fix it, and the first is still unresolved.
<devfil> persia: so I can't advocate upload, right?
<persia> devfil, For now.  Which package?  I'll ack it as a workaround.
<devfil> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amule-adunanza
<slytherin> devfil: better ask NCommander or RainCT to fix permissions for you.
<devfil> NCommander, RainCT: --^
<persia> slytherin, No, the REVU Admins *should* be able to do it.  Better to ask them to fix the scripts so we can.
<slytherin> persia: in any case you will need to wake them. :-)
<persia> slytherin, I doubt either are asleep at this hour.  A couple of the REVU hackers might be sleeping, but it should be day in both those places.
<slytherin> how many revu hackers do we have?
 * RainCT reads the log
<devfil> persia: thanks
<persia> slytherin, I think five or six.  Check LP for details.
<persia> RainCT, Problem is that devfil can't advocate, and alter_user.py has been deleted, so I can't fix it.
<persia> RainCT, As nice as it would be to do proper tracking based on team membership, it would be great if it could be overridden cleanly from the CLI.
<directhex> did someone say CLI?
<directhex> oh, wait, not THAT CLI
 * RainCT hits directhex with a stinkin fish
<iulian> Blah
<directhex> RainCT, i'm plotting how to get a boycottnovell hat-trick. i just need to be called out as a destroyer of freedom one more time
 * NCommander smashs directhex with a mono bomb
<slytherin> is it ok to keep source name same of a package as what upstream tarballs are and name binary package as what is is popularly known? ex. source as jakarta-jmeter and binary as jmeter.
<directhex> slytherin, yes!
<directhex> slytherin, life is easier for everyone if the source package is called what upstream calls it
<persia> And life is also easier for everyone if the binary package is named what everyone calls it.
<RainCT> and life would be even easier for everyone if LP redirected from launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<binary> to launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source> :P
<directhex> yay for an easy life!
<persia> RainCT, Has that bug been filed yet?
<persia> RainCT, Also, what happens when multiple source packages provide the same binary package (yes, this happens, especially if you're not inspecting versions)
<RainCT> show a page asking which source package you mean?
<directhex> doko, do you still want sole maintainership of ironpython? there's been a new upstream for 3 months, and mandatory changes due to a mono packaging transition are due within a month or two
<doko> directhex: feel free to prepare an upload for jaunty
<directhex> well, experimental
<doko> why do you ask in ubuntu-motu?
<directhex> because i noticed you were *in* ubuntu-motu, mainly. it's full of interesting people
<directhex> making as much of mono as syncable as possible is one of my goals for jaunty, so all work goes into debian first & foremost
<RainCT> So, who else is a MOTU but hasn't Reviewer status on REVU, beside devfil?
<RainCT> devfil: you have it now :)
<devfil> RainCT: thanks :)
<persia> RainCT, Thank you.
<RainCT> np :)
<erle-> is one of you motus working on a signed backport solution for openoffice3?
<erle-> (i would do it but i can't sign)
 * persia wishes that the backports team actually regularly idled in the #ubuntu-backports channel
<joaopinto> how is the debian import process, all the .orig.tar.gzs are imported and the current ubuntu diff is applied ?
<sebner> persia: a license header is necessary in every sourcefile right?
<persia> sebner, Not in autogenerated source files, even if it's autogenerated at packaging time rather than build time.
<sebner> joaopinto: AFAIK we take all of debian. orig.tar.gz, dsc and diff
<sebner> persia: sorry, I mean source files like *.c ...
<RainCT> s/AFAIK// :)
<persia> joaopinto, No.  Packages unchanged from Debian are imported wholesale.  Packages changed from Debian are listed as merge candidates.
<joaopinto> sebner, so, I do you keep track of changes that were maded on ubuntu ?
<persia> joaopinto, patches.ubuntu.com does that.
<sebner> RainCT: ?!
<joaopinto> persia, what does it do ?
<RainCT> sebner: that you are right :P
<RainCT> joaopinto: keep diffs against Debian for all files modified in Ubuntu which have "ubuntuX" in the version name
<persia> joaopinto, Tracks all patches in Ubuntu as compared to Debian.
<persia> RainCT, No, for all packages modified in Ubuntu.
<persia> (and technically, for all packages not modified in Ubuntu, but those are all null, so it's moot)
<sebner> rexbron: heh =)
<joaopinto> but, thats from a past import right ? or is it from the current ubuntu dev version ?
<joaopinto> it keep differences for which stage of the process ?
<sebner> persia: is it bad when I made all in all 3 comments on REVU? I commented, found something more, commented, found something more .. or should I delete all of them and make 1 big comment?
<persia> joaopinto, It's from each available version.
<sebner> RainCT: \o/
<persia> sebner, Doesn't really matter.  I tend to leave big comments.
<RainCT> persia: wasn't packages with "buildX" showing up there a bug, which was recently fixed?
<sebner> persia: kay. /me is still wondering about the qualtiy differences of uploaded packages to REVU
<persia> RainCT, I wouldn't consider that a bug given the diffs I've seen in "buildX", and I don't know if it was "fixed".
<persia> sebner, Hrm?  What do you mean?
<joaopinto> how is patches.ubuntu.com used ? You get a new tarball/diff from Debian, it's built, then who checks for patches that were done on the previous ubuntu package and need to be added ?
<RainCT> persia: I think Debian complained about them showing up on their QA page
<RainCT> let me check..
<sebner> persia: Well some of the uploaded packages are generally OK, but the one I actually reviewed (very quick review) was in such a bad autogenerated state and FTBFS besides -.-
<persia> RainCT, That's not surprising.  Maybe it's just not exported in the same place?  I know every diff between every set of versions is ultimately available somewhere in that system.
<persia> sebner, They are intensely variable.  Some good, some bad.  Depends on the uploader.
<sebner> yep
<RainCT> persia: uhm, I guess that it was about those being listed in the PATCHES file then
<persia> sebner, The point is that we only want good packages, so even MOTU submit packages there.  By this system of peer review, only good packages should reach the archive.
<sebner> persia: I just did a very quick review, if you are bored you can join if you want ;-D
<joaopinto> basically I am trying to figure, if, by default, packages will come from Debian and may be available for the next release without guarantee that the ubuntu fixes (from the previous release) were applied
<persia> RainCT, That makes more sense to me.
<sebner> persia: sure and that's good how it is
<persia> joaopinto, No.
<persia> joaopinto, Well, yes, but that only happens if someone manually decides to drop the diff.
<joaopinto> so, there is an automated process to ensure that ? Where does the packages.ubuntu.com come in play ?
<persia> Nowhere at all.
<RainCT> persia: OK, it's that bug 195070 (and excluding buildX is mentioned in the comments)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195070 in merge-o-matic "Don't export patches if only the changelog changed" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195070
<persia> It's not generally reliable from a development perspective, although it can sometimes be useful.
<joaopinto> you have, debian-package-a.orig, debian-package-a.diff, when does the ubuntu-package.diff get merged ?
<persia> RainCT, That's MoM, which is (slightly) different than patches.
<persia> joaopinto, Ideally, between archive open and DIF.
<RainCT> persia: patches.ubuntu.com is created by MoM, iirc
<persia> RainCT, Other way around.  MoM relies on patches.ubuntu.com resources as input.
<sebner> RainCT: DaD ftw! :P
<joaopinto> is there some flow designed somewhere ?
<persia> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<RainCT> persia: read the description of bug 188955
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 188955 in merge-o-matic "Don't export patches for simple rebuild" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188955
<RainCT> anyway, /me goes to finish homework
<joaopinto> persia, the merging/syncing description does not describe the description with the debian import
 * persia is baffled and suspects conflation
<joaopinto> is debian import a mass sync ?
<persia> For unchanged packages, yes.
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate a review of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<joaopinto> and for changed packages, do they keep unavailable until someone decides if to merge/sync ?
<persia> Not unavailable, but unchanged.
<sebner> persia: OK, now I make 1 big comment. I just don't want to make a 4th comment for a missing manpage xD
<joaopinto> so, by default a package which was changed in debian is is synced ?
<persia> If it wasn't changed in Ubuntu.
<persia> Or rather, if Ubuntu has a previous version synced from Debian.
<persia> There are a couple classes of exception, but they really aren't very important.
<persia> (blacklists, rebuilds, etc.)
<joaopinto> but what if the package was changed on ubuntu, who selectes to do the merge or sync ?
<persia> any interested party.  For the first few weeks, it's usually left to the last uploader.  If they don't do it, someone else usually does it.
<persia> Personally, I think we're about two weeks away from that crossover point, but it's sorta loose, and it might well wait until after UDS.
<joaopinto> meanwhile what is the contents of the archive ? The imported package from debian ?
<persia> The current package in Ubuntu.
<persia> No sync means no upload means no change.
<StevenHarperUK>  hi - will my bug get backported : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903 or is something not set right
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<slytherin> StevenHarperUK: Why have you attached .diff.gz? You should attach debdiff.
<StevenHarperUK> I was told to attach them by a MOUT
<StevenHarperUK> *MOTU
<StevenHarperUK> slytherin: so do I have to make a debdiff now: for the 2 backports?
<slytherin> StevenHarperUK: If it was told by some MOTU then leave it as it is unless he tells you otherwise.
<StevenHarperUK> ok Ill leave it : otherwise should it get processed
<StevenHarperUK> slytherin: can any motu here process the package for backport or is it a seperate team
<slytherin> StevenHarperUK: it has to be first evaluated by MOTU SRUteam which is already subscribed to the bug.
<StevenHarperUK> slytherin: Great - ill wait for a message from one of them then: ta
<persia> Err, SRU != backport
<StevenHarperUK> persia: hi - nice to see you, is mine SRU or a backport then : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/293903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293903 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.3.0-0ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<persia> StevenHarperUK, That's debateable.  Once it gets into Jaunty, poke the SRU team to answer the question.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: it is in jaunty - how do I poke them
<StevenHarperUK> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt
<RainCT> StevenHarperUK: ask in the bug and subscribe them
<StevenHarperUK> RainCT: is this the right team? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~motu-sru
<RainCT> StevenHarperUK: if the package is in universe/multiverse, yes
<StevenHarperUK> RainCT: do I have to set the bug status to anything special
<StevenHarperUK> RainCT: or the assignment of the bug?
<persia> The bug is subscribed to the right parties.  Just wait.
<persia> There's a queue, but they'll get to it at some point.
<RainCT> StevenHarperUK: Don't assign anybody. It may be that the status should be New, but I don't remember for sure..
<persia> Once you have an SRU ACK or NACK, either subscribe the sponsors team or retarget as a backport.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: sorry I assumed it would be quicker than 1 week that's all
<persia> Status of "Fix Released" is not likely to gain much attention.
<persia> StevenHarperUK, Not enough people are chasing stable updates, so the queue is lagging.  Part of it is that the nominations system is a bit broken, which causes confusion.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I rekon I set it to confirmed?
<persia> StevenHarperUK, That might help.  SRU would accept/reject the specific tasks, and maybe mark Jaunty Fix Released if it is.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: ok that's done, Ill wait another week now
<StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks for the help
<StevenHarperUK> RainCT: thanks also
<StevenHarperUK> slytherin: cheers also, also
<fta> persia, asac, yesterday, i discussed with asac about fennec, he asked me why you think fennec should go through revu, it's a mozilla-team package maintained in lp/bzr. why not just reviewing in lp ?
<persia> fta, Well, as long as it gets two ACKs somewhere publically visible, doesn't really matter.  REVU is just the default place for such reviews.
<asac> persia: we should look into how better streamline such initial reviews around launchpad + bzr merges imo
<asac> for instance one could create an empty branch on launchpad and do a merge request ;)
<asac> or just submit a branch in a needs-packaging bug ... and subscribe revu team or something?
<jimcooncat> gouki, got a minute to pm me please?
<azeem> mok0: btw, are you a Debian Maintainer?
<hyperair> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite <-- could someone review this for me please?
<handschuh> hyperair: your changelog is to large
<handschuh> hyperair: Initial release (LP: ....) + whay you made changes (pathcsystems) is sufficient
<handschuh> s/whay/why
<azeem> it's annoying that clicking on the .diff links on revu makes my browser want to download that file, rather than to view it
<devfil> fta: are you working on amsn merge?
<RainCT> azeem: do you know how to fix that? I added "AddType plain/text .diff" to mods-enabled/mime.conf but that didn't help
<fta> devfil, not at the moment, i'm on chromium. if you want to do it, feel free
<azeem> sorry, no
<nhandler> azeem: Are you using firefox?
<devfil> fta: thank you, how is going the work on chronium?
<azeem> nhandler: epiphny
<azeem> epiphany*
<nhandler> azeem: Well, I can't help you then. In firefox, there is an extension called 'Open in Browser'. It allows you to tell the browser to load the .diff file in firefox instead of downloading it
<azeem> ah
<azeem> sounds useful
<nhandler> azeem: It is very useful. I use it to view the diffs on Launchpad as well
<RainCT> azeem: if you know python you can write such an extension for epiphany yourself in like 10 minutes :P
<fta> devfil, so far, there's not much to see. the linux port is still far from ready upstream. i'm working with upstream to improve the build system and make it acceptable for us.
<hyperair> handschuh: i'm sorry, i don't really get what you mean
<RainCT> epiphany rocks \o/  (well, it would if it remembered the open tabs when it's closed, had tab restoring with Ctrl+Alt+H and undo for forms like Fx :P)
<handschuh> hyperair: wait ...
<sebner> RainCT: epiphany = gnome stuff = \o/ :P
<RainCT> GNOME = don't start = \o/ :P
<RainCT> *doesn't
<sebner> RainCT: don't matter if it starts or not. Gome is always \o/ :P
<nhandler> hyperair: I am also almost done with my review of your package
<handschuh> hyperair: http://paste.ubuntu.com/73001/ - dont create a new changelogentry on revu
<hyperair> handschuh: ah thanks
<hyperair> nhandler: so how's it look?
<nhandler> hyperair: There are a few things you need to change. I'm building the package now. Then I'll send my comments
<nhandler> Hey NCommander
<NCommander> hey nhandler
<hyperair> nhandler: thanks. i've actually just uploaded a new version. just changes in the changelog, like handschuh said
<nhandler> hyperair: Well, the package is still building for me. I'll update my comments to apply to the newer version
<slytherin> RainCT: I hope plain/text is a typo, IMHO it should be text/plain
<hyperair> nhandler: alright thanks
<slytherin> handschuh: Congratulations on first package in archive. :-)
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks! Also for your help
<handschuh> slytherin: I am preparing the next one right now
<slytherin> handschuh: will review tomorrow if I get time. Got to go now.
<handschuh> slytherin: thanks! I will ping you then
<directhex> which archive, debian or ubuntu?
<handschuh> directhex: ubuntu, debian-day is tomorrow
 * sebner winks mok0 =)
<directhex> sebner, kinky
<directhex> handschuh, well, once you do that, you get your own cool page on qa.debian.org
<sebner> directhex: lol :P you don't know the passion of ubuntu/motu :P bad debian guy
<directhex> debian guy? man, i'm an outcast wherever i go
<sebner> hrhr
<handschuh> directhex: if I have some qq's about getting the packages into debian, can I directly ask you here?
<directhex> handschuh, there are a few people here who can help, not just me
<handschuh> directhex: ok
<directhex> e.g. i think slytherin is a debian person at heart
<slytherin> directhex: since when? I just have commit access to pkg-java svn.
<handschuh> directhex: yes, but i need slytherins time to review my packages  :-)
<directhex> slytherin, close enough
<slytherin> directhex: nah. I don't plan to become a DD.
<directhex> slytherin, nor do i. too much politics
<directhex> slytherin, i have convenient svn access to pkg-mono though
<slytherin> hmm. got to go. office tomorrow.
<crimsun> superm1: yes, about two years of bug reports and e-mails went into the "80%" selection
<crimsun> superm1: for jaunty, we shouldn't be worrying about mixer levels in the initscript, which is being overhauled.  udev and alsactl init will be taking care of that.
<RainCT> slomo: yep, text/plain. but doesn't work
<RainCT> err, sorry, that was for slytherin
<superm1> crimsun, can you elaborate more on that?  on a codec by codec basis, defaults will be chosen?
<superm1> or by a platform by platform basis?
<handschuh> if i have a bds-licensed package, do i just have to point out to the location at debian/copyright ?
<mok0> sebner: missed your wink ;-)
<sebner> herh
<nhandler> hyperair: I finally got the package built and submitted my comments
<hyperair> nhandler: wow that sure took long =p
<hyperair> nhandler: thanks. i'll go look
<nhandler> hyperair: Sorry about that. I went out for a bit.
<handschuh> If I add additional files to the original package - where do I put them? in some special debian dir or under patches?
<nhandler> What type of files handschuh ?
<hyperair> nhandler: wah that's a LOT of lintian stuff X_x
<handschuh> nhandler: it is one build-file
<nhandler> handschuh: In most cases, you will want to put them in the debian directory. That keeps them separate from the upstream source. It also makes it easy to modify the files in the future
<nhandler> hyperair: That is one reason I wanted to build the package before sending in my comments. I wanted to include the lintian warnings
<hyperair> nhandler: well thanks =)
<nhandler> You're welcome hyperair. Keep up the good work
<hyperair> nhandler: i'm pretty sure it validated. are you sure it doesn't validate?
<hyperair> desktop file i mea
<hyperair> n
<handschuh> nhandler: but the build-files' location is important - is there a method to automatically put it into the right location if its in the debian dir?
<hyperair> it didn't validate to begin with, so i patched it
<nhandler> hyperair: Let me double check. It looked like you were adding an Encoding tag and some other stuff
<hyperair> oh whoops
<hyperair> yeah i just ran it by again
<nhandler> :)
<hyperair> alright now it validates
<hyperair> next step...
<handschuh> nhandler: I got it, thanks  :-)
<hyperair> nhandler: regarding executable-not-elf-or-script, what should i do? chmod everything in binary-install or something?
<nhandler> hyperair: What file is that for?
<hyperair> nhandler: lintian errors
<hyperair> warnings i mean
<nhandler> Yeah, but what file caused that warning?
<nhandler> Oh yeah, most of those shouldn't be +x
<hyperair> nhandler: so it's a bunch of chmods then?
<nhandler> Yeah, most likely
<hyperair> nhandler: what's "script-with-language-extension"?
<nhandler> It doesn't like that you have a .sh extension for a script in /usr/bin.
<handschuh> nhandler: can i simply add the file if I put the diff into debian/patches?
<nhandler> What does the diff do? Create the file? If so, then there is nothing to add
<handschuh> nhandler: the diff creates the file
<handschuh> nhandler: there is nothing to add?
<nhandler> Right
<nhandler> The diff will take care of adding the file
<handschuh> nhandler: ok, great
<hyperair> nhandler: so should i do some agressive patching? or are some lintian warnings worth ignoring?
<handschuh> hyperair: lintian has to be clean
<hyperair> handschuh: so.... aggressive patching then?
<handschuh> hyperair: yes :-/
<hyperair> i think i'll go bug the upstream developer again
<hyperair> it's hard to patch non-autotools stuff
<handschuh> hyperair: that seems to be the best way. But it is always usefull to be in contact with upstream
<hyperair> yeah
<handschuh> nhandler: have you the time for a fast review at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite (the package is very small and basic)
<nhandler> handschuh: I'll look it over in a minute. I just need to finish up a merge I'm working on
<handschuh> nhandler: take your time! there is no need to hurry
<nhandler> handschuh: Did I ever tell you how much I appreciate building these java packages ;) openjdk-6-jre-headless is 25 MB!
<sebner> nhandler: I don't like java, guess why :P
<handschuh> nhandler:  :-) sry about that
<nhandler> handschuh: Don't worry about it. As long as the package eventually gets into the repositories, I'm fine
<handschuh> :-)
<nhandler> handschuh: I didn't find much wrong with the package. Nice job
<handschuh> nhandler: thanks!!
<nhandler> You're welcome handschuh
<handschuh> nhandler: you wrote "much" ... so you did find something wrong?
<handschuh> nhandler: a now i see
<nhandler> See what I mean handschuh? There were only minor issues. Nothing serious
<handschuh> nhandler: yes, thanks. I just refreshed the page  :-)
<Laibsch> Anybody have an answer for https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+question/51583 ?
<Laibsch> I'm supposed to be able to upload unchanged sources to the PPA, but I don't see how that can be done since I usually don't have the GPG key for the latest entry in the changelog.
<RAOF> Laibsch: You don't have to sign with the changelog's key.
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> I know about -uc -us
<Laibsch> But I don't think that is what you mean
<RAOF> Laibsch: The '-k' option to dpkg-buildpackage/debuild allows you to use your own keyid, or you can debsign.
 * Laibsch studies man page
<Laibsch> Oh, I see
<Laibsch> Thanks
 * RAOF has never signed anything with debsign, though.
<Laibsch> RAOF: Are you OK that I upload this chatlog as answer to answers.LP?
<RAOF> Yeah?  That's OK with me.
<Laibsch> Nice
<Hobbsee> debsign is useful.
 * Hobbsee suspect it's the signing part in dpkg-buildpackage, though
<binarymutant> if anyone has any time on their hands I would appreciate a review of my package, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=charm . Thanks :)
<handschuh> binarymutant: have you ever looked at cdbs?
<handschuh> binarymutant: it could shorten your rules-file a lot
<binarymutant> handschuh, I have looked at it but thought that my rules file was already pretty short
<mok0> binarymutant: lots of hyphen fixes needed in manpage
<binarymutant> mok0, what do you mean/
<RAOF> My my!  grub2's picked up a fair few patches in Debian.
<mok0> binarymutant: in nroff files, options need to be escaped like this: \-
<mok0> binarymutant: you know how to do patches?
<binarymutant> patch -p1 ?
<mok0> binarymutant: uhm, yes, but I mean how to use patches in packaging
<binarymutant> mok0, so should I ditch upstream's man page and create my own?
<binarymutant> I've never used dpatch
<mok0> binarymutant: perhaps now is a good time to learn?
<mok0> binarymutant: you don't ditch upstream manpage, you just patch it
<mok0> binarymutant: so it gets fixed when the package is built
<binarymutant> ok thats cool
<binarymutant> should I send the patch back upstream?
<mok0> binarymutant: if you want to be a good citizen :-)
<handschuh> mok0: time for a short review? : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite   :-)
<mok0> handschuh: I'm looking at binarymutant's package right now
<handschuh> mok0: a ok sry
<binarymutant> mok0, I do, I like this app
<mok0> np
<mok0> binarymutant: can you receive files via DCC?
<binarymutant> mok0, uh no, can you email me?
<mok0> binarymutant: pm me your email address
<RAOF_> Oh dear.  Throttled internet is now!
<Hobbsee> RAOF_: oh?  why?
<RAOF_298> Hobbsee: Care of profligate downloading.
<Hobbsee> RAOF_298: oh.  right.
<Hobbsee> on the 17th.  nasty.
<RAOF_298> The anniversary is on the... 24th, I think.
 * RAOF_298 wonders quite how he downloaded so much.
<mok0> handschuh: looks good
<RAOF_298> Nothing says "fun" quite like pbuilder at 4000B/sec
<handschuh> mok0: thanks. it seems that i learned a lot this weekend  :-)
<mok0> handschuh: I can't test the package
<mok0> handschuh: yes you did
<ajmitch> RAOF_298: lucky you!
 * ajmitch quickly checks to see how much he's used
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-09
<dtchen> anyone with i386 -- bare metal, not vm -- lying about?
 * jdong scratches head at bug 475891
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475891 in eagle "eagle crashes on: zoom into schematic " [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475891
<dtchen> heh, I remember eagle.
<jdong> dtchen: heh the proposed fix is one of the more amusing ones I'v eseen
<jdong> especially when it seems like neither the SRU submitter nor the Debian uploader seem to give a second thought to it
<JonyBlaze> maybe it uses relative paths?
<JonyBlaze> still though...heh
<jgoppert1> how best to make a package that is just a super package that makes other package ?
<jgoppert1> install
<sbalneav> jgoppert1: Take a look at one of the existing metapackages
<sbalneav> something like ubuntu-desktop.
<jgoppert1> thanks i'll check it out
<sbalneav> apt-get source ubuntu-desktop.
<jgoppert1> exec germinate-update-metapackage --bzr ??
<jgoppert1> i think this is probably not needed for me, but wondered if anyone knows that this command does
<jgoppert1> has anyone used dh --with germinate, i think it must be used to pipe files in somehow Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ${germinate:Depends}
<jgoppert1> found the equivs package, looks very helpful, thanks guys
<JonyBlaze> is there a way I can delete a package I uploaded to REVU?
<nhandler_> JonyBlaze: What is the package?
<nhandler_> JonyBlaze: And why do you want to delete it?
<JonyBlaze> nhandler_: pep8, after I made it I relized there is a Debian package with the same name (unrelated)
<JonyBlaze> I need to rename it
<JonyBlaze> I will rename it to pep8simulator
<JonyBlaze> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pep8
<JonyBlaze> http://packages.debian.org/sid/pep8
<JonyBlaze> thats not good :(
<nhandler_> JonyBlaze: Done
<JonyBlaze> thank you!
<nhandler_> JonyBlaze: You are welcome
<ScottK> jgoppert1: If you think equivs is a solution to your problem you are almost certainly not considering the solution correctly.  In almost all cases, including the one you're considering, it's a horrible hack and not the write way to go.
<jgoppert1> Scottk: what do you recommend? I can do it manually. I have built other packages
<ScottK> It depends on how often it will change.
<ScottK> For most in archive metapackages we use seeds and germinate, but if it'll rarely change, manually is fine.
<jgoppert1> its a set of packages that i want to install on my computer network, maybe every month or so
<jgoppert1> i've been looking at ubuntu-meta, but have yet to figure out how germinate:Depends is supposed to pull in what file
<ScottK> But if the set isn't going to change, then just do it manually and make the packages you want a depends of the metapackage.
<jgoppert1> the set will change every month
<austin_laptop> so at wineconf, Scott Richie mentioned that there is a list of ~1000 packages that don't compile on Karmic, anyone know where that is? google doesn't show much
<siretart> austin_laptop: see the topic, last link
<austin_laptop> ah, crap, I'm blind
<austin_laptop> thanks
<jmarsden> Package version numbering confusion: bible-kjv is one of those "doesn't build on Karmic" packages.  I just fixed it.  It was version 4.23.  No -1, no -1ubuntu1, etc.  Just 4.23.  What should I number the fixed package?
<ScottK> jmarsden: If it's a native package in Debian, leave it that way.
<jmarsden> So ... does that mean I can bump it to 4.24 myself?
<siretart> no, that would clash if debian publishes 4.24. this would then confuse everyone
<AnAnt> should one sign the new CoC ?
<siretart> ScottK: TBH, converting it to non-native does not sound like the worst idea to me.
<jmarsden> I know a friendly DD I can probably get to upload it to Debian unstable for me... should I bump to 4.24 and do things that way??
<siretart> jmarsden: the cleanest way: get 4.24 sponsored to debian and then have it synced to ubuntu. in that order
<jmarsden> OK, makes sense.  Will do.  Thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<wrapster> I recently added a few changes to bintuils pkg that i was working on... I fixed/uploaded the latest one .. but on some machine via the APT if i try to install them I get this error... http://pastie.org/689890
<LucidFox> Why does mc have such weird defaults for file associations?
<LucidFox> It tries to run gqview for image files, for one
<siretart`> LucidFox: I see that you work a lot on multimedia packages in
<siretart`> ubuntu. have you considered joining pkg-multimedia and maintain the
<siretart`> ubuntu packages there?
<LucidFox> siretart`> In Debian?
<siretart`> well, sort-of yes.
<slytherin> NCommander: ping
<directhex> poke pokey poke poke. is TheMuso about?
<LucidFox> siretart`, won't all the packages depending on libmp4v2 in Ubuntu also be able to use it in Debian?
<siretart`> LucidFox: probably yes
<\sh> moins
<siretart`> hi \sh!
<\sh> bah...office power outage and the whole infrastructure inhouse doesn't work anymore...dear god of sysadmins, please give me pros to work with
<mok0> \sh: no UPS'es?
<\sh> mok0, not in this office...and it's internal it which is responsible for this mess
<dpm> hey dholbach, I've got a question on SRUs on the sponsorship queue. I'm looking at http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ I filed an SRU at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/460984 and it doesn't appear on the list. I'm not sure I did the nomination for karmic correctly. What do you think it could be?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460984 in ubuntu-translations "KMail Dutch: translator's e-mail in application" [High,Fix committed]
<dholbach> it doesn't have the sponsoring team on it? :)
<dholbach> ubuntu-main-sponsors in this case
<dpm> dholbach, argh! I had not noticed I had only subscribed ubuntu-sru. Thanks! :)
<dpm> sorted
<\sh> ttx, pingeling ;) bug #475457 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475457 in tomcat6 "Adding JSVC_CLASSPATH to /etc/default/tomcat6" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475457
<ttx> \sh: yo
<\sh> ttx, I wanted to put this topic as start of a discussion about this...I wonder if the patch I did is sane, or if it's better, to move $JSVC_CLASSPATH from /etc/default/tomcat6 after the default startup classes
<ttx> \sh: the way you did it allows to override the default classes, which sounds cool...
<ttx> only unknown is whther starting a classpath with ":" is allowed/harmful or not
<\sh> ttx, imho it is, but we can go with a better solution with some shell magic..e.g. setting JSVC_CLASSPATH in default to empty... and in /etc/init.d/tomcat6 if [ -z "$JSVC_CLASSPATH" ]; then JSVC_CLASSPATH="<the standard stuff>" else JSVC_CLASSPATH="$JSVC_CLASSPATH:<the standard stuff>" fi
<ttx> \sh: sure.
<\sh> ttx, or just set the default settings in /etc/default/tomcat6 and use it as well in the init script...so we are clean...all defaultsettings are set where it really belongs :)
<ttx> \sh: yes, that's even better... then you can add your stuff before and/or after the regular stuff.
<\sh> ttx, yepp...
<sebner> hiuhu \sh, everything fine? :D
<ThreeOfEight> Hallo, can anyone help me build a package, step by step?
<\sh> sebner, if you ask in such a tone, no ;)
<sebner> ThreeOfEight: that always differ from source to source. have you read the packaging guide?
<ThreeOfEight> Yes I have.
<ThreeOfEight> In two languages
<sebner> \sh: "such tone" ?
<sebner> ThreeOfEight: ok, where do you have problems?
<ThreeOfEight> Well first of all, I'm not entirely sure how to start
<ThreeOfEight> The programme I'm trying to build a package of is a small game a friend of mine wrote, I've got the source and a binary
<ThreeOfEight> So what do I do? Put both in one package? Or build two separate ones?
<sebner> ThreeOfEight: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<ThreeOfEight> oh, okay, I haven't read that one.
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, you don't package binaries. you create source packages, which define how binaries should be built and packaged by the build servers
<ThreeOfEight> ah okay, that makes sense
<ThreeOfEight> however, when I tried to build my source package, I had a weird error
<ThreeOfEight> It said that "changes could not be applied because the binary file was changed"
<ThreeOfEight> but I'll try again from scratch
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, if your "clean" rule in debian/rules doesn't revert everything back to before-you-tried-compiling status, then you get that error
<ThreeOfEight> Oh yes, that was weird, too
<ThreeOfEight> it first said that there was no rule to make clean
<ThreeOfEight> but there was a clean: in the rules file
<geser> clean from debian/rules often calls clean from the upstream makefile, perhaps it's that what's missing
<ThreeOfEight> There is no upstream makefile
<ThreeOfEight> because there's really nothing to clean
<ThreeOfEight> Where am I, that is my script, supposed to put the compiled binary?
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, aren't you building from source ? there should be a resulting binary to clean
<ThreeOfEight> Well, what do I do with that binary?
<ThreeOfEight> Where do I put it?
<ThreeOfEight> The root directory of the package?
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, the "binary" rule in debian/rules should take the binary produced in the "build" rule, and place it inside an appropriate pretend path (usually debian/tmp/usr/bin/fooapp or something like that), and send the right commands to turn that path into a package
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, to start, was the binary built from the source as part of the package build process ?
<joaopinto> directhex, I believe he is trying to install a precompiled binary
<ThreeOfEight> it was.
<ThreeOfEight> no, I'm not
<ThreeOfEight> I am compiling, and that works
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, so you already fixed the binary on changes error, right ?
<directhex> let me find a simple example of a makefile-free package
<ThreeOfEight> yes
<joaopinto> ok
<ThreeOfEight> I just don't know where to put the compiled binary now
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, are you using cdbs or debhelper ?
<ThreeOfEight> er
<joaopinto> with cdbs it's simpler
<ThreeOfEight> right now I just call dpkg-buildpackage
<joaopinto> ok, and how is your debian/rules ?
<ThreeOfEight> Well it compiles it
<joaopinto> a long list of dh_* calls ?
<ThreeOfEight> It cleans it up
<ThreeOfEight> Yes
<directhex> joaopinto, cdbs is never simpler than dh7 unless you are doing *just* the right voodoo
<joaopinto> ok, so it's using debhelper
<ThreeOfEight> I just modified the original one created by dh_make
<ThreeOfEight> ah, yes
<ThreeOfEight> right, I am. sorry.
<directhex> joaopinto, dh7, that is. dh5 is complex
<joaopinto> directhex, right, but most people still use dh5
<ThreeOfEight> and I removed all the Makefile calls
<directhex> well, they're sillypants! dh5 is hard!
<ThreeOfEight> so what I need to know now is where to put the binary. It's supposed to go into /usr/share/games/ttmine
<joaopinto> I personally found cdbs easier to understand :P
<directhex> binaries don't go in /usr/share. /usr/share is for cross-platform code
<directhex> or non-code, more commonly
<ThreeOfEight> Really? But all the other games install in there.
<directhex> in part
<directhex> things like art assets go in /usr/share
<directhex> as art is cross-platform
<ThreeOfEight> heh... true...
<ThreeOfEight> okay
<ThreeOfEight> so /usr/bin/?
<directhex> but libraries go in /usr/lib, and executables in /usr/bin
<ThreeOfEight> alright
<joaopinto> games binaries go into /usr/games
<directhex> oh, yes
<directhex> silly distinction IMHO
<ThreeOfEight> I am a bit of a newbie in Linux, especially to package building
<ThreeOfEight> so where do I put the binary in the package
<ThreeOfEight> ttmine-0.51/games?
<ThreeOfEight> or ttmine-0.51/debian/games?
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, typically into debian/tmp/usr/games/
<ThreeOfEight> Why tmp?
<directhex> think of debian/tmp as a "staging area" where you construct your ideal installation, with everything in its nice little folders as expected, before you issue the appropriate command to turn debian/tmp/* into * inside a package
<ThreeOfEight> ah okay
<ThreeOfEight> so in the final package, I will just move all the contents of tmp up directly into debian?
<directhex> well, the dh_builddeb command is what does that, whether you call it manually or via a layer like cdbs or dh7
<directhex> dh_builddeb reads a list of files or folders in debian/install, removes debian/tmp from the start of them, and shoves them in a .deb file
<ThreeOfEight> what is debian/install then?
<directhex> just a list of files & folders to put in the package
<ThreeOfEight> so I have to create that, too?
<directhex> yes
<ThreeOfEight> so okay
<ThreeOfEight> I have rules in build so that all the stuff created goes into debian/tmp/and so on
<ThreeOfEight> Where and what do I have to put stuff into debian/install?
<directhex> debian/install is just a text file
<directhex> it should contain lines like "debian/tmp/usr/bin"
<ThreeOfEight> okay, thanks, I thought it was a director
<ThreeOfEight> +y
<directhex> it's just a list of what you want to go into a package. sometimes build processes make lots of extra crap you want to skip - or you have multiple install files to send different files into different packages in the event that you want multiple packages from a single sourcwe
<ThreeOfEight> Are the contents of the tmp directory (and the directory structure itself) supposed to be created during build or can I create that before, too?
<directhex> they should be created during the build
<ThreeOfEight> alright
<directhex> makes life easier - your clean rule can just go "rm -r debian/tmp"
<ThreeOfEight> unrelated question, is there an easy way to construct an entire path?
<ThreeOfEight> like, one command instead of mkdir debian/tmp; mkdir debian/tmp/usr and so on
<directhex> try "-p"
<directhex> as in "mkdir -p debian/tmp/usr/lib/foogame/" will create every piece of that chain
<ThreeOfEight> Aaah
<ThreeOfEight> I just read the man file, but it seems like I failed to see that option
<ThreeOfEight> thanks
<joaopinto> directhex, doesn't dh_clean rm debian/tmp already ?
<ThreeOfEight> I think so
<directhex> joaopinto, maybe. even better
<ThreeOfEight> That's why I thought it's supposed to be created during build
<ThreeOfEight> I built it and tmp was gone
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, you can also use debian/dirs
 * directhex runs deprecated dh_prep calls on joaopinto 
<ThreeOfEight> For what?
<joaopinto> which takes care of the dirs creation
<ThreeOfEight> ah okay
<joaopinto> assumming your rules call dh_installdirs somehow
<ThreeOfEight> yes
<ThreeOfEight> so I just but, er
<ThreeOfEight>  /usr/games into dirs?
<ThreeOfEight> I don't get it... I did move my binary to debian/tmp/usr/games, but it doesn't get included into the package
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, do you have debian/install with the file you need ?
<Laney> you have to copy from there to the package build directories
<Laney> debian/tmp is just a staging area
<joaopinto> and your rules call  dh_install  ?
<ThreeOfEight> oh
<ThreeOfEight> right right...
<ThreeOfEight> so what exactly do I put into debian/install
<joaopinto> ThreeOfEight, debian/tmp/usr/games
<Laney> debian/tmp/usr/games
<ThreeOfEight> okay
<joaopinto> dh_install will strip the debian/tmp...
<Laney> "the stuff you want in your package"
<joaopinto> for the target name
<ThreeOfEight> well then I could just as well write debian/tmp, aye
<joaopinto> on you case yes, since you want it all :p
<ThreeOfEight> Okay, thanks everyone, I think it works
<joaopinto> :)
<qense> The Guake package is using "gconf-schemas --register guake.schemas > /dev/null" to install the file /data/guake/guake.schemas in its postinst script. Now there is bug #366621, with some people reporting that the schemas are not properly installed. Could this be fixed by switching to "gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule {path}", and which of the two ways is encouraged?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366621 in guake "guake package does not install gconfig schema" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/366621
<cemc> is there a way to tell pbuilder to use something other than tar+gzip for the base.tgz ?
<hyperair> cemc: try reimplementing the function create_basetgz() in your .pbuilderrc
<hyperair> it may or may not work
<hyperair> the original is in /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-modules
<hyperair> hmm no it won't work
<hyperair> well you could dpkg-divert it away and edit it directly =p
<cemc> I just thought why not try to use pigz for example
<hyperair> is it better?
<hyperair> hmm parallel eh
<hyperair> interesting
<cemc> well honestly I didn' try it,
<cemc> but I tried pbzip2 on a quad-core,
<cemc> and it is ~4x faster
<hyperair> in all honesty, gzip is pretty damn fast, so the bottleneck is probably already your disk i/o
<hyperair> bz is something else entirely
<cemc> with 4gb ram it's likely cached
<hyperair> bzip2 takes damn long.
<cemc> and with tmpfs as buildplace I think it would be worth a try :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> anyone needs a hand regarding merging?
<hyperair> cemc: i was talking more of the writing.
<hyperair> cemc: tar -czf reads the entire chroot, tarballs it, gzips it, and writes it to disk
<hyperair> the bottleneck is probably writing
<hyperair> since the files are probably cached, as you said
<hyperair> cemc: if you've got enough disk space, i'd suggest cowbuilder instead.
<bddebian> Hey if you folks are merging any packages that are orphaned in Debian, let me know and I'll try to upload changes to Debian so you can sync. :)
<cemc> hyperair: tar -czf is rarely used, only when building the base, right? if one does a lot of package building, it gets tar -xzf 'd more, without changing. that's what I was thinking about. but I can try cowbuilder too
<cemc> of course -x'ing is not that cpu intensive as -c'ing ;)
<hyperair> cemc: but even -xzf writes a lot of data. in fact, it writes more than it reads
<hyperair> -xzf writes more than it reads, and -czf reads more than it writes.
<hyperair> but both involve quite a lot of writing
<cemc> that's true. but I have a tmpfs /cache where all the -x'ing and compiling/building is going on, so there's no real writing when -x'ing
<cemc> how's cowbuilder different anyway?
<geser> cemc: a pbuilder on a tmpfs is pretty fast
<cemc> geser: I know ;)
<\sh> sbuild with local archive on a dl385 with 10k hds is fast too ,-)
<hyperair> but it's more of a pain to setup
<\sh> hyperair, hmm..no...mk-sbuild-lv is doing that for you, but right, you need to use debmirror to mirror the archives ;)
<hyperair> see? what a pain >_>
<hyperair> and there's no --autocleanaptcache
<hyperair> besides, i don't like the idea of a fix-sized volume
<geser> I use apt-cacher-ng for my pbuilder to cache the needed debs
<hyperair> but why?
<cemc> hyperair: so what would I need to hack exactly to use something other than tar+gzip?
<cemc> just for the heck of it :)
<\sh> hyperair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/314164/ <- it's enough for me ;)
<hyperair> cemc: change tar -czf and -xzf to tar -c | pigz -c > file and cat file | tar -x | pigz -dc respectively
<hyperair> cemc: dig around in /usr/lib/pbuilder
<hyperair> \sh: that is HUGE
<\sh> hyperair, no :)
<hyperair> well for the time being, as long as i'm on this campus, i live on the same LAN as a full ubuntu mirror so i don't really care about caching really =\
<hyperair> \sh: 450G is not big to you?!
<\sh> hyperair, there is still place on the iscsi msa ;)
<\sh> hyperair, nope
 * hyperair whacks \sh 
<hyperair> hmph
<hyperair> i've only got 320G
<hyperair> and i get touchy when my pbuilder's aptcache exceeds 1G
<\sh> hyperair, hd space is one thing I have enough of
<hyperair> blargh!
<hyperair> i used to live on a 160G hard disk
<hyperair> then it died prematurely
<\sh> next week I'll reactivate some of my old 7TB machines
 * hyperair wants.
<\sh> let's see if they are stable with a new raid controller
<\sh> and a new backplane
<ThreeOfEight> Bloody hell... okay, for some reason, my files still don't get moved into the package, even though I created a debian/install file which lists the directory
<ThreeOfEight> sorry, did anyone reply? I was gone for some time
<joaopinto> TheMuso, is dh_install invoked when you run debuild ?
<joaopinto> ops, was ThreeOfEight
<ThreeOfEight> I'm calling dpkg-buildpackage
<ThreeOfEight> but... wait, I'll look
<ThreeOfEight> it calls dh_installdirs, installchangelogs, installdocs, installman and installdeb
<gnomefreak> anyone know if pulseaudio-module-udev was replaced by another package?
<gnomefreak> sorry in lucid
<ThreeOfEight> When am I supposed to call dh_install?
<shankao> hi, I'm trying to get a new package uploaded to REVU, but although I get dput success, my revu page shows no uploaded packages by me... I have my keys correctly configured and used to sing the package that also contain the original sources
<shankao> is there anything missing?
<gnomefreak> shankao: IIRC it will show up on next refresh on revus end
<ThreeOfEight> Where and how am I supposed to call dh_install if I want it to put everything in debian/tmp into the right place?
<shankao> gnomefreak: ok, thanks... is that something automatic (like periodic refresh each hour) or manual?
<gnomefreak> shankao: yes its automatic but its been a while sinc ei used revu
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, how much of your "binary" rule is abnormal? is it just assorted dh_* commands?
<ThreeOfEight> What do you mean abnormal?
<directhex> ThreeOfEight, things that aren't just dh_* commands
<ThreeOfEight> binary: binary-indep binary-arch
<ThreeOfEight> binary-indep and binary-arch both call install
<ThreeOfEight> and binary-arch also has lots of dh_'s
<ThreeOfEight> but that's it
<ThreeOfEight> anyway, I got it working now, somehow
<directhex> okay. delete binary, binary-indep and binary-arch. then just write
<directhex> binary:
<directhex>         dh $@
<ThreeOfEight> By removing dh_prep and manually including dh_install in install:
<ThreeOfEight> erm
<ThreeOfEight> okay I'll try
<directhex> (make sure debian/compat contains the number 7)
<ThreeOfEight> it does
<directhex> then the "dh" command works
<ThreeOfEight> what about that .PHONY part down there
<directhex> shouldn't be needed in simple cases, really
<ThreeOfEight> and what am I supposed to put in install and build?
<directhex> given you don't have a makefile, i'd leave them be for now
<ThreeOfEight> Right now, I have build calls build-stamp (for some reason)
<ThreeOfEight> okay
<cemc> hyperair: ok, I'll try that, thx
<hyperair> cemc: np
<ThreeOfEight> okay, now dh_install (automatically called by dh $@) doesn't find the directory I specified in debian/install anymore
<ThreeOfEight> ...because dh_prep deletes it before dh_install is called
<ThreeOfEight> odd
<ThreeOfEight> Never mind, I worked around it, just left out dh_prep
<Vorador> Hi. Could someone help with PPA builds? The problem is that the build-bot installs the wrong version of software (I have the needed version in my ppa already built, but it installs ubuntu version instead) and package building fails because of that. Build log -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35424976/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-lpia.audacious-plugins_1.5.1-2ubuntu3~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz Package list -> https://launchpad.net/~sandshrew/+
<Vorador> archive/ppa/+packages
<Adri2000> RainCT: do you know someone called chancellor? (he unassigned you from bug #161762)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 161762 in merge-o-matic "Use AJAX to submit comments (when JavaScript is enabled)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161762
<jgoppert> anyone know why my pbuilder would pick up some packages on my mirror but say that others are virtual packages and fail out ??
<jgoppert> I did the obvious stuff like apt-get update. The packages install fine through apt, have my ppa set as the other mirror in my pbuilderrc
<jgoppert> lol pbuilder update, stupid me
<pkern> jdong: Well, just changing the version number and the suite target on LP: #365770 can hardly require resubscription of motu-sru, no?  I don't see any "ACK otherwise" there.
<Vorador> So, nobody knows how to fix the issue with dependences?
<ScottK> Vorador: Without looking, I'd guess you uploaded something with a lower version number than what's in the archive.
<ScottK> Vorador: We work on developing Ubuntu here, so PPA questions aren't a priority for a lot of people.
<Vorador> ScottK, yes I uploaded lower version.  Anyway, where I could ask PPA questions? Is there anything better than #ubuntu?
<Vorador> [lower than the one in ubuntu default repos]
<ScottK> Vorador: #launchpad maybe.  They seem to think we should anwswer the world's packaging questions for PPAs, so not sure.
<Vorador> Ok, i'll try...
<RainCT> Adri2000: uh? No, I don't think so
<Adri2000> RainCT: that's what I thought. well, dunno what he is doing with the bug...
<jdong> pkern: one can certainly argue a re-ack is superfluous
<jdong> and I'd agree with that ;-)
<jdong> it was more of "please resubscribe -sru if my attention is needed again" to reduce the clutter of subscribed bugs
<RainCT> Adri2000: well, anyway I haven't started doing any of the Ajax yet (waiting for Scott to merge the design stuff)
<pkern> jdong: So I fix that and upload?
<jdong> pkern: yes please; I just commented on the ticket to the same effect
<ScottK> jdong: You and probably TheMuso need to decide what to do about the currently pending lmms SRU upload.  It got shoved in the queue at the last second when upstream said "Oh, you want these patches too", but doesn't have a proper bug/test cases/etc.
<Adri2000> RainCT: ok
<jdong> ScottK: I'll take a look at that tonight
<jdong> got a midterm in an hour
<jdong> [which I'm gonna fail]
<ScottK> Then you may as well keep working on Ubuntu.  ;-)
<ScottK> jdong: OK.  Thanks.
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> I feel the same way at times
<jdong> stop putting evil thoughts in my head
<jdong> *starts filling out drop-subject form in preparation for the midterm*
<DktrKranz> james_w: have you access to sync-blacklist?
<james_w> yes
<DktrKranz> james_w: mind add entries for gdebi (which already slipped in, luckily with no harm) and ubuntu-dev-tools (actually in Debian NEW)
<james_w> nope
<james_w> can you version ubuntu-dev-tools such that it won't happen?
<james_w> just makes more sense that way
<DktrKranz> are there special versions which are excluded from autosync?
<DktrKranz> (for native packages)
<james_w> done
<james_w> don't think so
<DktrKranz> I could eventually use ~debian1
<Laney> DktrKranz: so what's the plan there?
<Laney> do we upload to debian now?
<Laney> what about getting other scripts into eg devscripts?
<ScottK> Many of the scripts in u-d-t aren't really Ubuntu specific.
<DktrKranz> Laney: some of them could be eventually proposed for merging into devscripts, some are really Ubuntu-specific, some have already some counterpart in devscripts (or similar packages)
<DktrKranz> nhandler's summary is a good starting point
<DktrKranz> james_w: FYI, I updated launchpadlib and dependant packages to latest version, most of them (if not all) could be synced now
<james_w> DktrKranz: great, thanks
<DktrKranz> I have only discovered a drawback in restfulclient unicode implementation which breaks u-d-t (buildd, at least), patch to fix it is http://people.debian.org/~dktrkranz/u-d-t_unicode.patch
<DktrKranz> s/patch/workaround/
 * RoAkSoAx is happy... lucid pbuilder creation succeeded... 
<jgoppert_> can anyone tell me why launchpad fails to import my git repository from sourceforge?
<cody-somerville> ask in #launchpad
<jgoppert_> thanks
<ari-tczew> any sponsors are now working on lucid?
<geser> if I find time then yes
<chrisccoulson> i'm still working on karmic SRU's :(
<RaXOR> hi 2 all, may be it's not right to start my speech like that, but i want to know how can usual person join soft developers team for ubuntu in gnome or kde ??
<RaXOR> or if you can give me any information about i searching... please
<RaXOR> i'm a programmer and very interested in ubuntu project
<ScottK> RaXOR: For KDE, see #kubuntu-devel and ask.
<RaXOR> thx
<RaXOR> and for gnome ?
<RaXOR> i have asked for kde cose of using qt libraries
<RaXOR> thx #ubuntu-devel is a nice room... i hope =) buy
<geser> for gnome: #ubuntu-desktop
<RaXOR> thx 2 u =)
<geser> there are the persons working on the gnome packages
<jgoppert_> i've got a .so that depends on another .so, works fine, make dist check works, but when running debuild when trying to build some shared libraries it fails, can you guys help?
<jgoppert_> i think i spotted it, missing \ in my automake file :-)
<TheMuso> directhex: You wre after me last night?
<directhex> TheMuso, yeah, prematurely it seems
<directhex> TheMuso, banshee with a11y is un banshee-daily ppa... but it's disabled in build due to needing an exact version of gtk# which isn't in the archive
<TheMuso> directhex: ah ok
<jgoppert_> dh_shlibdeps
<jgoppert_> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libcxcore.so.4 (used by debian/uvsim1/usr/lib/libuvsimSensing.so.0.0.0).
<jgoppert_> have you guys seeen this sort of thing?
<jgoppert_> looks like i left out .shlibs.local
<Laney> DktrKranz: I mean, do we upload to debian and sync now
<Laney> or are you going to sync back from debian or or or?
<Laney> from ubuntu to debian even
<jgoppert_> how do you get the shlib file to install should it be lib lib1.shlib?
<jcastro> ScottK, ok talked to elmo and he agrees that keeping old gobby is the sanest thing. I've updated the wiki page and I've asked jono to mention it at the opening plenary.
<ScottK> jcastro: Excellent.
<ScottK> At least it's decided in advance
<DktrKranz> Laney: I asked to sync-blacklist u-d-t for now, I don't plan to have many changes in Debian that I won't push back to trunk, but it could happen (as happened in gdebi, for instance)
<jgoppert_> got it, uncomment dh_makeshlibs and my life is easy.. whew
<DktrKranz> Laney: I think it's better upload in Ubuntu as upstream first, and then in Debian if needed
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> yeah I think it makes more sense to treat this as a special case reversal of the normal package flow
<Laney> so you as Debian maintainer can take care of syncing it back to unstable
<DktrKranz> the main reason I listed as maintainer is to avoid bouncing
<DktrKranz> *myself
<Laney> well someone has to take care of it
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-10
<stochastic> Can anyone tell me if I'm correct on this:  For the next little while the best method for upgrading packages is to upload it to Debian and then request a sync into Ubuntu?
<ari-tczew> stochastic: yes
<ari-tczew> but if itsn't able, you need to do merge
<stochastic> ?? if it isn't able?
<jdong> stochastic: even in general that's arguably the more courteous/proper way of getting it done unless it's direly urgent to get the new version into Ubuntu
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Even better than merging is getting the Ubuntu diff into Debian and then asking for a sync
<ari-tczew> ScottK: yes I know about it
<ari-tczew> this method make management more comfortable in future (only syncs request without any changes)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It's not a point of comfort, but of effeiciency.  If we don't get our stuff back into Debian and just merge, it's more work for us.
<jgoppert_> how do we give a package to debian? they don't really have the ppa system setup yet do they? Is there a motu group over there that you have to get in touch with?
<ScottK> jgoppert_: It depends on the package, but if you look at mentors.debian.net, they have a sponsorship process.
<ScottK> Also if you work on a package with a team maintainer in Debian, you can often contact that team and get stuff back into Debian
<ari-tczew> ScottK: if I send package to mentors.debian.net, do I need to wait for response from orginal maintainer? I'm asking about NMU.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If it's an existing package, you need to work with the maintainer first
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers for more details
<ari-tczew> OK, I'll learn about it leater.
 * stochastic politely grumbles about debian worrying about their own external health...
<jgoppert_> wish debian and ubuntu would just merge and get it over with
<ari-tczew> I think that I'll upload more packages than in karmic's cycle with good co-operation with sponsors.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Perhaps set a goal to become a sponsor during this cycle.
<ScottK> jgoppert_: Not possible.   Different goals.
<jgoppert_> http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+debian
<jgoppert_> Yeah, but can't everyone just get along we'd have more development in the same direction
<ari-tczew> ScottK: It would be nice!
<StevenK> jgoppert_: No, they can't, it's the nature of large, distributed projects.
<ari-tczew> If I'll learn about forwarding packages to Debian, I'll request candidate to MOTU.
<ScottK> jgoppert_: If only there weren't actual people involved, sure.
<ajmitch> people suck, nothing new there
<stochastic> If debian and ubuntu's bug tracking and package uploading worked closer together, then ubuntu developers woudn't have to re-learn everything to make their contributions to debian
<jgoppert_> ok ok.. i used to love debian, but was soo much work, so do you guys just run a virtual machine and do your work there?
<ScottK> That or work in a chroot.
<jgoppert_> well i've got some gui stuff so probably would want to double check it was actually functional
<ari-tczew> question: Do I need to join first MOTU, then join ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<ScottK> stochastic: Package uploading it pretty much identical.  It's just where you point the package.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes
<stochastic> ScottK, but why can't I just point it to a single place and both projects look at it?
<ari-tczew> OK, thanks ScottK for information.
<stochastic> ScottK, or request a package upgrade in one place and have the .dsc file considered by both debian and ubuntu
<directhex> stochastic, things get... confusing... if one of the two distros rejects your package for some reason, e.g. there was a bug in it
<directhex> you end up with packages with the same version number, but different content
<directhex> it's awkward enough when the source packages are incompatible between distros (different md5sum)
<jgoppert_> should my data files be installed as uvsim-data with arch=all?
<stochastic> directhex, true, there are challenges, but the systems are very disparate from an initial user's view.  Why can't I log into the debian bug tracker with my lauchpad account, or check a box to have it duplicated in debian's tracker, etc...
<directhex> stochastic, it would be nice to be able to mangle debian bugs from launchpad
<directhex> stochastic, but they ARE disparate. debian has its own infrastructure which it's built up over about 17 years
<stochastic> well then launchpad should integrate with them.
<stochastic> I'm just wishing, not really expecting change overnight
<jgoppert_> to install my doxygen documenation do i just put doc/html/* in the debian/doc file?
<jgoppert_> what does this mean? E: uvsim source: not-binnmuable-any-depends-all uvsim-apps -> uvsim-data
<directhex> jgoppert_, binnmu is a debian-only problem.
<jgoppert_> it resulted from uvsim-app Depends: uvsim-data (= ${binary:Version})
<jgoppert_> i just wiped the binary:Version part out is that the right thing to do?
<jgoppert_> no queue now on the build farm, so much better than a week ago
<cody-somerville> jgoppert_, you can run lintian -i on your package to get a verbose description of problems
<jgoppert_> thanks
<ScottK> stochastic: Lots of reasons.  To start with the different maintenance model.  Ubuntu team maintenance and Debian individual maintainers don't align well.
<jgoppert_> on my sf project i setup doxygen to build but didn't put the html in my tarball, so i added the doxygen build command to the build section of the rules file, is that pretty standard?
<ScottK> jgoppert_: Yes.  We need to be able to build everything from the source.
<wgrant> Your tarball should contain source. Doxygen output doesn't sound like source.
<jgoppert_> cool, that's what i did
<stochastic> I'm trying to build a debian unstable pbuilder environment, but using this pbuilderrc file: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314790/  It gives me the error  Failed getting release file http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/dists/sid/Release
<dtchen> err, /ubuntu/dists/sid *would* be invalid
<ScottK> stochastic: Install ubuntu-dev-tools and then do pbuilder-dist sid create
<stochastic> ScottK, thanks, I had been doing pbuilder create --distribution sid
<ScottK> pbuilder-dist can make it a lot easier.
<cody-somerville> this is my .pbuilrrc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314802/
<cody-somerville> works great
<LucidFox> http://sandrotosi.blogspot.com/2009/11/things-that-make-me-angry.html
<LucidFox> o_O
<jdong> directhex: very cool to see Mono getting a compacting GC!
<dtchen> LucidFox: I'm pretty sure Mez referenced that blog post, too
<LucidFox> Yes, on Planet Ubuntu. That's where I found it.
<ScottK> LucidFox: There were a number of reactions on planet.debian too.  None particularly supportive.
<LucidFox> On a tangentially-related note...
<LucidFox> I noticed that when my package is sponsored into Debian, a binary package for amd64 is always uploaded, even though I only uploaded the source package to mentors.
<LucidFox> Is it the sponsor who builds the binary package?
<JonyBlaze> how can i make pbuilder-dist not generate packages owned by root
<ScottK> LucidFox: Yes.
<JonyBlaze> pbuilder w/o -dist doesnt
<ScottK> LucidFox: Debian always does binary uploads.  This way they know stuff at least built once before upload.
<wgrant> ScottK: They do not know that.
<wgrant> ScottK: They know that somehow on the uploader's system a binary package was produced.
<ScottK> wgrant: Well that's the theory.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> I think source uplaods are better.
<ScottK> The Debian way often misses build-depends because people don't build in a clean chroot.
<ScottK> My favorite was one package (don't recall which) where the username of the Debian maintainer was hard coded into the path used in one of the maintainer scripts.  It could only build on his system
<RAOF> That's awesome!
<LucidFox> Ehehehe
<LucidFox> But mentors.debian.net is supposed to hold source uploads, right?
<jdong> WHOOO!
<jdong> I managed to fill a btrfs FS to 94.5%
<ScottK> LucidFox: Yes
<ScottK> jdong: How'd the exam go?
<jdong> ScottK: oh almost certainly failed.
<ScottK> So as predicted.
<jdong> I might have understood the first question :)
<jdong> that's an accomplishment.
 * ScottK remembers exams like that
<ScottK> Vaguely.
<ScottK> It was a long time ago
<ScottK> OK, first pass through my merges is done.  15 syncs.  5 more that will be once depends are sorted.  3 more that will be once Debian stuff in progress is done, and 3 actual merges.
<ScottK> That may be my best sync ratio so far.
<wgrant> ScottK: But Ubuntu doesn't give anything back, remember...
<ScottK> wgrant: Well yeah.  Except all this crap.
<ScottK> A fair fraction of those were just pulled from Debian patches that the maintainer hadn't dealt with.
<wgrant> Ah.
<ScottK> One I had bbdebian sponsor a QA upload for me.
<ScottK> The rest were properly sent back to them.
<ScottK> Oh, one I'm the maintainer in Debian, but it was close to release so I just uploaded.
<ScottK> wgrant: Also one of the three uploads was reportbug where it's pretty unavoidable.
<serialorder> Every time I build a package I keep getting this difference in debian/control : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/314836/
<serialorder> it is due to the @GNOME@ in control.in and I am wondering if this is something I should be concerned with or ignore?  the diff is between the debian package and the ubuntu package I merged with it
<LucidFox> Oh, packages.qa.debian.org now shows the version in NEW.
<serialorder> nobody?
<wgrant> serialorder: Ignore it.
<wgrant> serialorder: It's crazy GNOME packaging stuff.
<wgrant> And is of no concern beyond that implicit in having automatically generated control file.
<wgrant> +s
<serialorder> i didn't add that, I just worked on the morge ;)
<wgrant> Right.
<serialorder> merge*
<serialorder> ok second question, sometimes if the merge is simple and it is only going to take a short amount of time I will work on the merge before posting the bug report
<serialorder> then I end up in this annoying situation where I have to post the bug report, find out the big number, go back and edit the diff to include it and post a second comment actually including the attachments
<serialorder> is there a less tedious way to do that?
<ScottK> serialorder: Become a MOTU so you can just upload it and not bother with the bug.  Short of that, no.
<serialorder> ScottK, i am working on it
<ScottK> :-)
<LucidFox> eglibc # james_w, don't want it slipping in by mistake
<LucidFox> I take Ubuntu isn't going to migrate to eglibc anytime soon?
<ScottK> LucidFox: Already did.
<RAOF> Hasn't it already?
<LucidFox> ...Oh.
<dtchen> yes, it has.
<nxvl> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> nxvl: Barely
<nxvl> ScottK: Just commented on Bug #413252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413252 in courier "package courier-base 0.61.2-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413252
<nxvl> i can't reproduce it
<nxvl> have you?
<ScottK> nxvl: No.  I didn't try.  Based on that and the Debian bug it seemed pretty clear.  Did you have maildrop installed before you intalled courier-base?
<nxvl> ScottK: nope
<nxvl> ScottK: i knew there was some other package i was missing
<nxvl> trying
<serialorder> apt-get source package grabs from karmic is there a way to get lucid source in a similar way?
<nxvl> serialorder: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/package_name
<serialorder> thanx nxvl
<serialorder> nxvl,  bzr branch lp:ubuntu/lucid/tracker gives me error tracker in lucid has no default branch.
<nxvl> serialorder: let me check
<nxvl> yeah, it hasn't been bzrized
<nxvl> serialorder: you will need to download it from launchpad
<nxvl> serialorder: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker
<serialorder> ok so when does the method you mentioned first work?
<nxvl> serialorder: we are moving everything to bzr branches, but is still work in progress
<serialorder> oh ok
<nxvl> serialorder: most of the package have already branches, but some of them aren't still bzrized, i think for DIF we will have all the archive in bzr
<nxvl> but i'm being optimist
<siretart> serialorder: most probably the importer failed to import the package. you can try yourself with 'bzr import-dsc'
<nxvl> serialorder: where do you live? as in country
<ScottK> serialorder: Or you edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have the deb-src lines point to lucid.
<serialorder> US
<nxvl> oh, then probably you won't overlap much, but if you are still here in 2 hours, james_w will probably be around and you can ask him more about the bzr thing
<nxvl> serialorder: oh yeah, what ScottK said will work too
<serialorder> hopefully i will be asleep in 2 hours =)
<nxvl> ScottK: btw, did you got more info about the universe going away plans?
<nxvl> ScottK: i'm REALLY confused about ti
<nxvl> it*
<serialorder> ScottK, i think that will do the trick
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you see my mail to the MOTU list about the spec item for UDS?
<nxvl> i'm even doubting on applying to core-dev because of it
<nxvl> ScottK: subscribed already
<nxvl> ScottK: and will be there if it doesn't overlap with any session i'm running
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> We'll get it figured out.
<nxvl> i was just courios if you got any more infor on that, because there is not much around
<ScottK> nxvl: I mostly know from reading specs and tech board meetings.
<ScottK> It's not entirely clear.
<nxvl> yeah, that's what i mean
<nxvl> ther eisn't something really clear on the topic
<nxvl> i kinda like the idea, since we have had problems in the past because of the motu/core-dev separation, but things should be clearer
<nxvl> (i.e. kde guys applying for motuship and complains about non-kde people that they have no idea who he is)
<ScottK> Same thing with Server Team people and sometimes ubuntu-desktop people.
<nxvl> yeah
<nxvl> i just mentioned kde as an example
<nxvl> but it's really s/kde/specific-team/
<ScottK> Yep.
<nxvl> well, time to go to bed
<nxvl> read you tomorrow
<nxvl> ugn, apt hasn't finished running
<nxvl> ugh*
<dtchen> slytherin: yes, there are known issues with ppc and sound anomalies, but no more so than other arches
<dtchen> slytherin: if you're trying to debug this on Ubuntu (no KDE, Xfce, etc.), you should try PULSE_NO_SIMD=1
<slytherin> dtchen: Ok. So should I file a bug or leave it?
<slytherin> I will try tonight
<nxvl> ScottK: was able to reproduce the bug
<dtchen> slytherin: if in doubt, always file a new bug
<ScottK> Ah.  Good.
<nxvl> ScottK: it was indeed maildrop
<ScottK> nxvl: OK.  Then sound like the patch is the right thing to do.
<slytherin> dtchen: ok
<nxvl> ScottK: will do tomorrow, need to sleep now :D
<ScottK> Sure thing
<LucidFox> What's a symbols file, and where can I read more about it?
<siretart`> LucidFox: have you read dpkg-gensymbols(1)?
 * LucidFox reads
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart`> hi dholbach!
 * porthose_ tips his hat
<dholbach> hi porthose_, siretart`, \sh
<ajmitch> hi
 * LucidFox takes extra care to type "dput mentors" rather than "dput ubuntu"
<Laney> good morning one and allk
<stefanlsd> morning!
<Rhonda> Hi there. :)  I wonder, how long is it expected to take until the CoC 1.1 will appear on launchpad.net/codeofconduct?
<av`> Rhonda, hi, I guess this a #launchpad question :)
<Rhonda> Ah, didn't know about that channel, and given that MOTUs have to sign it ...  ;)
<av`> yes, actually all Ubuntu Members should have it signed but the last time I signed it was like 2 years ago, so no new version is out yet
<av`> Rhonda,  The  current version is 1.0.1, released 2005-04-12
<Rhonda> I got the impression after mako's blog about the new version that it should already be up, or at least is expected to be there soon.
<Rhonda> av`: Yes, and that's the one I have issues with, that's why I'm waiting for 1.1 :)
<av`> Rhonda, I see 1.1 was approved already by the CC on the 20th of October
<Rhonda> I know that. :)
<av`> Rhonda, maybe someone forgot to update the LP page, worth asking on #launchpad, maybe with the ppl being busy for the release they left that out :)
<Rhonda> Dropped my message there already. ;)
<Rhonda> ... thanks to your notice.
<av`> np, let me know the progress on it
<wgrant> Nobody told LP about it.
<av`> that's why then :)
<wgrant> It will probably not be on LP until 3.1.11 (2009-12-05), unless somebody makes a pretty compelling case for its necessity.
<Rhonda> wgrant: That some people have issues with the old CoC and won't sign it isn't compelling enough?
<wgrant> Rhonda: Well, it has been that way for nearly five years now. Another three weeks shouldn't make terribly much difference.
<Rhonda> ... combined with that the old version only spoke of developers and not of community members as a whole, belittling other contributors than code contributors.
<av`> Rhonda, it's already approved so it's just an issue of having it on LP, so you can start contributing since the old CoC will become obsolete
<Rhonda> av`: Unfortunately not because that would require the signed CoC.
<Rhonda> AIUI
<av`> well, having it signed is needed if you are going to join the developers / members teams, but that require some months to happen usually, so nobody prevents you to start contributing now since in three weeks it will be uploaded into LP
<av`> you stated that you will sign the latest CoC so it's fine IMHO
<Rhonda> av`: Besides, I already did a fair amount of bug handling over time without having it signed anyway, if that's what you want to suggest. :)
<av`> yeah, so who prevents you to start doing what have you planned to do
<Rhonda> Applying for motu might be the next step on my agenda. ;)
<Rhonda> Or upload right for a subset of packages from what persia suggested to me. And AIUI that also requires the signed CoC.
<av`> I didnt see your name into the queues yet, so you can start preparing some updates / debdiffs if you didnt already
<av`> e.g you need several sponsors talking about your work positively before applying
<persia> Well, no, one needs several endorsements.  Whether those are sponsors or not is only tangentially relevant.
<av`> persia, sponsors + several uploads done I would say
<persia> av`: Several uploads done to fix LP bugs, yes (but take a look at the e.g. wesnoth changelog).  For people who have other ways to get stuff into the archive, sponsors are more optional.
<av`> persia, sure, I was telling how it generally work for 'normal' ppl ;)
<persia> Oh, sure.  I agree with you for most cases :)
<sebner> huhi persia, long time no see .. everything fine? =)
<Rhonda> Technically I still prefer to fix stuff inside Debian for Ubuntu too so all involved parties do benefit from it. :)
<persia> sebner: Just painfully busy, but that should be over soon.
<sebner> persia: sounds great :)
 * Rhonda still tries to come up with a way to get away with the ubuntu irssi diff, but that's unfortunately a bit more complicate.
<Rhonda> Anyway, off to a meeting. :)
<LucidFox> Rhonda!
<LucidFox> Good to see you here. :)
<directhex> Rhonda, can you show me your debian/rules snippet for the irssi diff? we could use that for some other packages
<persia> directhex: There isn't one: see http://patches.ubuntu.com/i/irssi/irssi_0.8.14-1ubuntu1.patch
 * LucidFox looks at REVU and weeps.
<LucidFox> The first 17 packages are for Jaunty.
<directhex> persia, oh... :/
<persia> directhex: There are packages that *do* have such snippets.  Usually based on /etc/lsb-release or something.
<LucidFox> I'm not sure what to do with all the old packages on REVU.
<directhex> persia, yeah, lsb_release munging, i use that... but not for applying patches
<julez> LucidFox: I have a few low-priority packages that I update every 6 months ... perhaps the good thing to do would be to advocate them ? :P anyway I'll have to update them for lucid now
<persia> LucidFox: I generally just reviewed them if they were up for review, regardless of age, and nuked them if there was no response to a review for 3 months.
<persia> julez: Updating soonest would likely get REVU scanners more excited :)
<julez> I share the fault though, not advertising them that much
<Rhonda> LucidFox: You know that you always could have pestered me in other places, too. ;)
<LucidFox> I do know.
<LucidFox> Still, glad to see you here.
<Rhonda> directhex: That's what I meant with "unfortunately a bit more complicate" - not there yet. :)
<LucidFox> julez> Update them for lucid and ping me here!
<julez> LucidFox: thank you, as soon as I can :)
<LucidFox> When karmic development started, I reviewed the oldest packages on REVU and put them all on "needs work", pointing out other problems besides the distribution.
<LucidFox> If there were any
<fcuk112> looking for stuff to do...
<persia> fcuk112: What sort of stuff do you like to do?
<fcuk112> fix bugs, packaging
<fcuk112> new features to existing apps perhaps.
<persia> Any particular sort of applications that interest you more?
<fcuk112> not really fussed.  would really like to help out with audio but it's a little out of my league i think.
<persia> Perhaps working with applications that use audio?
<persia> For example, there's a heap of bugs in the audacity package, which probably needs someone to look at fixing a chunk of them and otherwise triaging the rest: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacity/+bugs
<fcuk112> that's an idea, thanks i'll take a look.
<persia> Good luck!
<fcuk112> :)
<siretart`> LucidFox: thanks for your analysis
<siretart`> LucidFox: faac has license problems anyway, see the bugtracker. for the rest, well, I totally agree to your email
<segler> hi, how do I get an advocate for a package I uploaded to revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks for any help
<persia> segler: Asking here is a good way (although not too often)
<slytherin> ttx: When processing merges for packages maintained by Debian java team if the diff is really small I suggest that you file bug in Debian (or let me know so that I can file them) so that we can make it a sync.
<nhandler> slytherin: I know that we have many Ubuntu Developers who have connections to certain packaging teams in Debian. Do you think it would be beneficial to have a wiki page listing this information?
<slytherin> nhandler: Surely.
<ttx> slytherin: so far I've been committing the diff to debian-java svn
<slytherin> ttx: That's great. I will check them and get someone to upload them.
<ttx> slytherin: but yes, that sounds more productive
<nhandler> slytherin: I'll create one this afternoon then when I get home (unless you feel like making it earlier)
<ttx> slytherin: most of the fixes I commit are the -headless and default-jdk  usual suspects
<ttx> slytherin: + some java bytecode level adjustments
<ttx> slytherin: so that code generated matches the runtime dep
<slytherin> ttx: They benefit Debian too. And in the end reduces maintenance overhead. :-)
<ttx> slytherin: that's why I committed those directly
<ttx> slytherin: We can do the commit-in-debian/sync style for the next relevant ones
<slytherin> sure
<c_korn> what was the command again to create sync requests ?
<slytherin> c_korn: requestsync
<c_korn> slytherin: thanks
 * slytherin wonders why sun-java6 has been orphaned in Debian. :-(
<directhex> slytherin, because it's evil non-free?
<persia> Rather, because it's not default-jdk for any arches anymore.
<slytherin> directhex: The reason is not explained in the bug.
<slytherin> persia: It never was.
<persia> slytherin: Well, in terms of package relationships, perhaps.  In terms of default java client was perhaps different.
<slytherin> persia: I don't think so. Openjdk is still not as perfect as most users would want.
<persia> slytherin: I think it's that it's as perfect as the ex-maintainer of sun-java6 needed it to be :)
<slytherin> persia: ex-maintainer? You mean doko has retired?
<persia> slytherin: I don't mean to imply anything beyond that the package is currently orphaned.
<slytherin> hmm. May be I should add comment on bug asking why.
<persia> No point really.
<persia> It's not terribly hard to maintain, if you want it.  Just sign up for the right Sun mailing list, and review each of the service release updates as they come out.
<persia> If you don't want it, no point asking :)
<slytherin> persia: Point is that the bug should contain reason why it was orphaned. The last upload was just about a month ago.
<persia> slytherin: And the bug filer differs from the last uploader.
<slytherin> right
<persia> Could ask, but maybe the answer exists at l.d.o somewhere already.
<slytherin> I will check
<c_korn> I want the package libjhdf5-java to be synced (http://packages.debian.org/sid/libjhdf5-java) but requestsync quits with this error: E: The package 'libjhdf5-java' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in 'sid'
<c_korn> this is the command I used: requestsync -n -d sid --lp libjhdf5-java lucid
<persia> c_korn: Congratulations!  You now have the opportunity to teach requestsync about contrib :)
<slytherin> persia: that is not the reason.
<slytherin> c_korn: requestsync needs source package name. You are using binary package name.
 * persia stops attempting to suggest fixes for tools never used
<slytherin> c_korn: And in lucid the syncs should happen from squueze (testing) instead of sid (unstable) unless you have very string reason for sync from sid.
<slytherin> /string/strong
<c_korn> slytherin: ok. I have already files another sync request (bug 479981). should I mark it as invalid and reopen it for squeeze ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 479981 in ubuntu "Sync libjgraphx-java 1.0.2.7-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/479981
<persia> c_korn: Probably easier just to change the title/description
<slytherin> c_korn: probably mark it incomplete until package makes into testing.
<c_korn> slytherin: ok, done.
<bdrung> asac: how about putting m-d under the hood of the debian mozilla team?
<asac> bdrung: the debian mozillateam is a-no-team
<bdrung> asac: what's a a-no-team?
<asac> a no-team ;)
<bdrung> asac: how can a team be a no-team?
<asac> consider you going in a room with a label "team" with a bunch of folks and noone working in a team ... thats a no-team
<asac> so no. i think the right place is to put it in ubuntu
<asac> basically ubuntu is the only place where you will be able to maintain things like this in a team. noone wants to do serious mozilla stuff in debian. and debian even has no user base so you dont even get feedback there
<segler> i just made a new upload addressing the comments on revo. so I'm asking if somebody could review it: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
<asac> i was long enough on debian side only to compare ... and all i see is that in debian a mozillateam does not work
<bdrung> asac: can you leave a comment on http://glandium.org/blog/?p=495 ?
<asac> no
<asac> you should not start discussing things with mike on debian/ubuntu relation
<asac> he hates ubuntu
<bdrung> so it will only lead to a bike shed
<asac> ubuntu is the big evil thing in the world ...
<asac> yes
<bdrung> k
<asac> i tried to engange with him for a long time ... send him patches for years ... all worth nothing
<asac> what he did first thing when i moved to ubuntu was to drop his patch system ;)
<asac> so ubuntu cannot reuse his work ... and extract patches easily
<bdrung> :)
<asac> not sure if he finally pushes his private git branch somewhere
<jdong> heh
<asac> but he didnt do that for the first years at least
<jdong> seems like the debian-Ubuntu flames are reigniting
<asac> no i dont flame
<siretart`> what is d-m?
<asac> just explain the situation
<asac> mozilla-devscripts
<bdrung> that's sad. free software is about collaboration.
 * jdong nods
<bdrung> siretart: dm is 'deutsche mark' :p
<siretart`> I see
<asac> hehe
<asac> dm is debian maintainer ;)
<siretart`> jaja :)
<slytherin> are patches in debian/patches directory applied before clean target is run during a build?
<asac> no ... they are unapplied (if the build system is a bit sane)
<asac> not sure i understand your question ;)
<persia> slytherin: Check debian/rules.  If clean: depends on patch: it does.  If it doesn't, it doesn't (not doing so is more common)
<slytherin> asac: There is a problem in the clean target itself. I have created a patch to fix it. But apparently the patch is not getting applied.
<jdong> I always thought one should depend on unpatch in the clean target.
<siretart`> jdong: that approach breaks if you patch the upstream build system and rely on your patches during cleanup
<jdong> siretart`: ah, right
<jdong> I've fortunately not encountered that level of brokenness yet ;-)
 * siretart` can't await the dpkg version 3 source level format
<jdong> what's new/different in version 3 exactly?
<siretart`> quilt is integrated, you don't have to care about patch system integration anymore
<jdong> ah
<Rhonda> jdong: And you don't need to uuencode binary changes anymore, it's not a .diff.gz but a debian.tar.gz
<slytherin> persia: So should I add the dependency on patch?
<jdong> whoo! now that's cool :)
<Rhonda> Also, it finally allows orig.tar.bz2
<siretart`> even multiple
 * jdong nods
 * Rhonda thinks of converting wesnoth to v3 rather sooner than later.
<Rhonda> Upstream ships .bz2 :)
<jdong> where's the best place to look for info about this?
<persia> slytherin: If you want to apply all the patches before clean.  If you just want to apply one, do it in the clean: rule, and unapply it when you're done.
<Rhonda> I think madduck aggregated some blog articles about it.
<slytherin> persia: I guess I will apply only one.
<bdrung> siretart: when will it be supported by Ubuntu?
<siretart`> bdrung: ubuntu supports it actually for ages. launchpad support is finished but not deployed yet. will come with the next launchpad release
<persia> So 5th December?
<bdrung> siretart: for ages? is version 3 that old?
<siretart`> bdrung: see the dpkg changelog
<siretart`> bdrung: it was included in debian lenny
<Rhonda> bdrung: It has to be supported in a stable release to be able to get used for the upcoming reason because the build daemons obviously run stable and shouldn't break. :)
 * Rhonda . o O ( ... like it happened with the "Breaks:" control field addition, interestingly )
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys quick question, what would the equivalent of using binary-post-install/package in debian/rules be if I use dh7?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys quick question, what would the equivalent of using binary-post-install/package in debian/rules be if I use dh7?
<janneh> hello
<janneh> i'm wondering, why is rsnapshot in ubuntu/debian such an old version? it is still 1.3.0 although 1.3.1 is out since a very long time
<janneh> are no people using it? if not, why not? is there any better/newer alternative that does the same thing, i.e. hard-link based incremental backup over rsync
<Laney> because nobody has done the update yet
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548966
<ubottu> Debian bug 548966 in rsnapshot "rsnapshot: New upstream release 1.3.1 (2008-09-02)" [Normal,Open]
<Laney> RoAkSoAx: Override some appropriate debhelper command to do what you want
<janneh> i am not new to linux but have not really delved very deeply into the packaging etc... do you think this might be a project that I could pursue?
<Laney> it might be hard to do right
<Laney> the right way is to mail the Debian maintainer and work with him to get it done
<janneh> hmm ok.
<Laney> give it a go if you are so inclined
<Laney> we can help you with any questions
<janneh> k i'll probably do that then :)
<janneh> but before i'd put any work in it: still wondering why nobody apparently was interested in updating it... maybe there's better software nowadays?
<Laney> check popcon to see how many people use it
<Laney> I suspect it's a reasonably significant number
<janneh> thx... how do i interpret the results? sorry, i've never used popcon... also the debian and ubuntu popcon pages seem very different, which one to use?
<Laney> either, both
<Laney> they tell you how many people who have opted in to the popcon system install (inst) and use (vote) the package
<janneh> k.. well ok at least i see that more people use rsnapshot than dirvish (also a rsync based backup software)
<janneh> i'll just contact the maintainer and see from there. thanks Laney
<jdong> kees: can I get your opinion on bug 401028?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401028 in pymsn "telepathy-butterfly crashed with TypeError in b64decode()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401028
<jdong> IMO it's in the category of remotely triggerable DoS
<jdong> (do you want this handled in -security or as a universe SRU?)
<kees> jdong: agreed, though we don't tend to give a lot of priority to client application crashes like that.  I'm fine with it going through SRU.
<jdong> kees: ok, thanks for your input :)
<kees> jdong: np
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, yeah but if with cdbs i use binary-post-install/package::, in dh7 would I override install: or is there a post-install rule?
<Laney> RoAkSoAx: Not as such, just add a rule override_dh_install: dh_install\nblah blah
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool thanks Laney :)
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, btw.. where can I find the documentation about dh7?
<RoAkSoAx> (besides the manpages offcourse)
<Laney> erm
<Laney> where can I find the documentation besides the place with the documentation?
<Laney> man dh
<mmmiiikkkeee> hi, I am trying to setup DebootstrapChroot acording to the wiki page, but it seems that some thing is messed up with my chroot's home directory.  if i type cd it get: "bash: cd: /home/mike: No such file or directory". why does root not cd to /root?
<RoAkSoAx> is there any wikipage on creating -dev packages?
<segler> hi, I changed a revu package according to comments, could somebody take a look on it? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
<nxvl> ScottK: the patch fixes the problem, just tested
<nxvl> ScottK: uploading to proposed
<ScottK> nxvl: Great.  jdong^^^ Can you ack this?  nxvl: what's the bug number again?
<ScottK> nxvl: Upload it to Lucid too
<nxvl> ScottK: yup, i will do the merge aswell
<ScottK> Great.
<nxvl> ScottK: LP: #413252
<ScottK> nxvl: Once jdong ack's it, I can accept it.
<nxvl> \o/
<ScottK> YokoZar: I finally hit a nice wine use case for me.  Someone sent me an encrypted self extracting zip file (exe) and wine handled it just fine.  Thanks.
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> YokoZar: does iTunes works in wine?
<adama> anyone experienced with packaging largish webapps?
<lfaraone> superm1: Hi, I'm preping a merge of the most recent electricsheep package from debian, and I can't seem to understand the patch that changes `char *splash_prefix = PACKAGE_DATA_DIR "/electricsheep"` to `char *splash_prefix = "/usr/share/electricsheep/electricsheep"`. Don't the values both evaluate to the same thing?
<superm1> lfaraone, did i touch electric sheep some time back?  I certainly don't recall if so...
<lfaraone> superm1:  -- Mario Limonciello < superm1@ubuntu.com>   Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:02:21 -0400
<superm1> lfaraone, but assuming PACKAGE_DATA_DIR is being substituted in somewhere via a define, then yeah that should work out the same
<superm1> you'll want to double check
<lfaraone> superm1: mk, well the current package doesn't work either, so it can't possibly get much worse :P
<superm1> ah i remember touching it way back when. it was certainly functional at that point
<superm1> too bad it's since broken
<lfaraone> superm1: I think it is a server issue or something odd, but the new upstream release works fine.
<lfaraone> Hm. If a package was uploaded in August to Debian (as NEW), and it still isn't in Lucid, should I check to see if there's a reason it wasn't synced?
<lfaraone> There aren't any bug reports about it on LP
<RAOF> lfaraone: Has it migrated to debian testing yet?
<quidnunc> Can anyone explain to me how to fix a compilation error of the type describe herein? http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg710858.html
<dtchen> quidnunc: see -ldl
<RAOF> Oh, of course it's in there.  I was going to grep /usr/lib for those strings :)
<quidnunc> dtchen: That should be in LDFLAGS?
<dtchen> err, certainly not
<dtchen> the library that references them needs it
<quidnunc> dtchen: So the compiled library (libbfd.a) is broken?
<lfaraone> RAOF: yes.
<lfaraone> /https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/198136
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198136 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] FLAM3" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<lfaraone> oops, wrong channel.
<quidnunc> dtchen: Never mind, I got it. Thanks for your help.
<pbryan> I've been maintaining a handy PPA package for a while, and it occurs to me, it would be handy to have available in Universe. What type of hoops could I expect to be made to jump through to make such a thing happen?
<directhex> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<pbryan> directhex: Thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-11
<jdong> ScottK: bleh, lost my scrollback
<jdong> which bug did you want me to look at?
<ScottK> Just a moment
<ScottK> jdong: Bug 413252
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413252 in courier "package courier-base 0.61.2-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413252
<jdong> ScottK: diff acked
<nhandler> kirkland: Would it be possible to patch manpages.ubuntu.com so it makes wrapped URLs clickable?
<kirkland> nhandler: example?
<nhandler> kirkland: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/man1/notify-send.1.html
<kirkland> nhandler: hmm...
<kirkland> nhandler: actually, i'd like to get the parser to *not* wrap :-)
<kirkland> nhandler: i think it's w3m that's responsible for that
<kirkland> nhandler: let me check ....
<segler>  hi, I changed a revu package according to comments, could somebody take a look on it? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
<kirkland> nhandler: okay, i think i found it
<kirkland> W3MMAN_MAN='man --no-hyphenation'
<kirkland> nhandler: thanks for the suggestion
<kirkland> nhandler: fix committed
 * nhandler hugs kirkland 
<kirkland> nhandler: that'll get updated when i push the changes for Lucid
<kirkland> nhandler: probably within a week or two
<nhandler> Sounds great kirkland. Thanks again for your work on this
<kirkland> nhandler: no problemo, committed r157.  pushed.
<hedkandi> hello folks, has any kind person perchance got time to tell me about debian rules
<hedkandi> rules files like eg. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/swiggle-0905081139/swiggle-0.4/debian/rules
<ScottK> jdong: Got it.
<ScottK> jdong: Would you also please look at bug 471917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 471917 in screenbin "support byobu in the ec2 instance" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/471917
<jdong> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> kirkland: ^^^ accepted.
<ScottK> jdong: Bug #464668 is the only other pending upload.  I've no strong opinion either way, but have a look please.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464668 in python-defaults "bump version to the final 2.6.4 release" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464668
<jdong> ScottK: heh it seems like something that "needs to happen" right?
<jdong> given that the python itself is a done deal already.
<ScottK> I think it's cosmetic only.
<ScottK> I'd ask doko_ if you want to know for sure.
<jdong> heh
<jdong> it doesn't sound like it hurts...
<jdong> After contemplating a bit, I'm fine with it. see no problems; ACKed.
<jdong> but eh it's kinda amusing :)
<ajmitch> that's in main, right?
<ajmitch> I see, a couple of separate source packages there just to confuse matters
<YokoZar> nxvl: not the latest.  and none of them work with newer iPods because Wine doesn't have a USB driver layer yet
<kirkland> ScottK: cheers, thanks man
<ScottK> ajmitch: Python gets split up for licensing reasons
<nxvl> YokoZar: ugh, ok, thanks
<ScottK> jdong: OK.  Your call.
<ScottK> jdong: Accepted.  That just leaves sorting lmms and we've discussed that already.
<ajmitch> so that's a sign that you need more SRUs to approve?
<ScottK> No, jdong needs more SRUs to approve.  I just accept them.  He's the brains of the operation (scary I know).
<ajmitch> we're doomed
<jdong> lol
<jdong> love you guys too :)
<maco> hahaha
<ScottK> jdong: Would you please upload the backport for Bug #216761.  I can accept that one too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216761 in xen-3.3 "[hardy-backports] errors in xendomains init script" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216761
<ajmitch> ScottK: I finally found something relevant for that boost & python issue
<ScottK> ajmitch: What is it?
<ajmitch> I found a commit in boost's SVN about python 3.x compatibility which looks relevant, I'm just going to build boost with the patch to test it
<ScottK> Cool
<ajmitch> https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/changeset/53731/sandbox-branches/bhy/py3k
<ajmitch> once I get the right magic for the SRU I'll update the bug
<LLStarks> can i get a new look at the following bugs?
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/293418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293418 in qt4-x11 "phonon tab does not detect installed phonon and gstreamer" [Undecided,New]
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/253854
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253854 in qt4-x11 "Needed libphonon enabled in Qt4 compilation/packaging" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottK> LLStarks: What's the question?
<LLStarks> can this be addressed for lucid? it looks sloppy as is.
<ScottK> Well 253854 is done.  Nothing to address.
<ScottK> Last I heard the gstreamer backend was incredibly buggy.
<LLStarks> forcing a kde environment to set qt4 is not acceptable.
<LLStarks> *set phono
<LLStarks> **phonon
<ScottK> How do we force a KDE environment?
<ScottK> LLStarks: I don't understand the statement about a KDE environment. The Phonon we are shipping for Jaunty and Karmic both is the Qt one.
<LLStarks> whatever. i'm exhausted. i did 9-5 today and then sat through a 3 hour seminar.
<LLStarks> anyway, i'd like to see qt4 compiled properly with phonon.
<ScottK> OK.  Then why are you asking to discuss this now.
<ScottK> It is.
<ScottK> I'm not sure why the Qt configuration dialogue doesn't work, but the Phonon is the Qt one.
<LLStarks> gotcha.
<LLStarks> should i keep the bug open?
<ScottK> Not sure.  There is work to redo the way phonon works with the various backends already planned for Lucid.  We already have a new package, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phonon-backends that's part of it.
<JontheEchidna> ^pretty much just the phonon source package renamed, debian did that
<JontheEchidna> Dunno why the Qt config is all greyed out. The plugins are installed to the Qt4 location so it should see them
 * ScottK says ^^^ is the expert
<JontheEchidna> only expert enough to have no clue why it is failing when it shouldn't :P
<ScottK> Oh, then we're even
<jdong> ScottK: wait, 216761 can't be auto-backported?
<jdong> (intrepid-updates -> hardy-backports)
<ScottK> jdong: OK.  The way I read it, it was a source backport.  Nevermind then.
<jdong> ScottK: yeah sorry for the confusion; it's a normal backport from intrepid
<ScottK> No problem
<jdong> ack ubuntu-archive was never subscribed, were they..
<jdong> whoops :)
<ScottK> Yes.  That's the list I saw the bug on
<jdong> oh :)
<jdong> well silly launchpad UI and find-as-you-type then :)
<ajmitch> how annoying, I can't upload to a ppa with karmic-proposed in the changelog :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Nope.
<ajmitch> I'll just leave boost compiling on the laptop for the next week then
<ScottK> Just upload to karmic and don't sweat it for a PPA
<ajmitch> I was in a rush, it's no big issue to fix the changelog & reupload now that I'm at home
<ajmitch> I just had to complain about it, even though it makes sense for a ppa to not accept -proposed
<ScottK> It makes no sense of a PPA to care.
<ScottK> I suggested have PPA's only accept uploads to a target of *-ppa so stuff doesn't accidentally end up in the archive.
<ScottK> Been there, done that.  Would prefer to avoid it happening again.
<ajmitch> maybe we could bug/bribe wgrant to fix that
<ScottK> Oooh.  Good point.
 * ScottK looks around.
<jdong> ScottK: oh yea, BIIIIG +1 there.
<micahg> there's bug 374675
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374675 in soyuz "Support proposed pocket in PPAs" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374675
<wgrant> ScottK: It has been suggested and rejected before, I think.
<wgrant> But yes, that would be good.
<ScottK> wgrant: It has, but it's still a good idea and none of the reasons why not ever made any sense to me.
<wgrant> ScottK: Some PPAs probably need to support pockets.
<ScottK> wgrant: OK.  That may be a reason not to require it, but not a reason not to allow it.
<ScottK> Personally I wouldn't mind having a little more assurance than me remembering to dput to the right place.
<wgrant> It is certainly concerning.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<fcuk112_> what's the process to package an application?  i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/480489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480489 in ubuntu "Package Opera" [Undecided,New]
<fcuk112_> ah i found the MOTU guide - does it have to be done from scratch?
<fcuk112_> ah i found the recipe for updating a package.
<slytherin> fcuk112_: isn't opera already available in partner repository?
<\sh> moins
<ari-tczew> "thanks" for sponsors who is ignoring debdiffs other people, fuck you
<joaopinto> !language
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<ari-tczew> sorry, but this is true
<joaopinto> whatever you are going throw is not an excuse to have that language on this channel
<Laney> no, it's not the way to deal with problems
<joaopinto> if you are not happy with a specific problem, use the appropriate communication channel
<joaopinto> erm, through
<joaopinto> and use the appropriate language
<ari-tczew> I'm very sad that I could not meet him live
<ari-tczew> :]
<dholbach> ari-tczew: what are you talking about?
<ari-tczew> I'm working on debdiffs only just for see later, that someone sponsor ingored my work and upload his debdiff, this not a fair
<dholbach> ari-tczew: what specifically are you talking about?
<ari-tczew> this is not the first time
<ari-tczew> e.g. bug #477387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477387 in drupal5 "Please merge drupal5 5.20-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477387
<ari-tczew> look at date attached debdiff and look at date last uploaded package drupal5 in lucid
<ari-tczew> conclusion? ignorance
<ari-tczew> thanks for contribution to Ubuntu and makes him better!
<dholbach> maybe I can try to explain what happened
<dholbach> if you have a look at I'm sorry that happened
<dholbach> oops
<dholbach> if you have a look at https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<dholbach> you will see a list of packages, which version they have in debian, which in ubuntu and so forth
<dholbach> also it lists who did the last upload of a package
<dholbach> there's sort of an expectation in Ubuntu development land that whoever did the last upload will also take care of doing the merge
<dholbach> so it makes sense to talk to that person
<dholbach> I'm absolutely not saying that you're to blame
<dholbach> it's a shame if two people work on the same thing and nobody realises the other one is doing that
<dholbach> it'd be nice if \sh would have had a look at the sponsoring queue first... but it's an oversight that can happen all to easily
 * Laney is guilty of not usually checking it
<dholbach> and it's certainly not a reason to get upset like that
<joaopinto> hum, is the uploader responsibility or the last change author ? It makes more sense to be the last change author
<dholbach> ari-tczew: and if you ever were in doubt: your contributions to Ubuntu ARE appreciated
<dholbach> joaopinto: it's a bit hard to figure that out "last uploader" is something that can be checked programmatically
<dholbach> joaopinto: but yeah, it'd be nice if whoever wrote the patch initially took care of the merge or a version of the patch that could go upstream :)
<joaopinto> well, I see my name there because of some FTBFS work, I guess it comes from the last entry on debian/changelo
<dholbach> joaopinto: yep
<Laney> yes
<Laney> that's called touched-it-last
<joaopinto> I am always last on this merge vs sync thing, every package which has ubuntu changes requires a merge ?
<joaopinto> ops, lost
<ari-tczew> dholbach: sorry man, but I reported bug earlier, he could check it on launchpad
<dholbach> ari-tczew: I know... as I said above the workflow generally is a bit different for merges, but the good news is: you can add comments on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html now :-)
<ari-tczew> so I am accusing him ignorance
<dholbach> calm down, accusations are not going to get you anywhere
<geser> joaopinto: yes, every package we touch, we need to merge (or sync) later manually
<dholbach> it's a shame it happened, but the only thing we can do for now is trying to make sure it doesn't happen in the future
<joaopinto> ok, tks
<dholbach> we can 1) all try to have a look at the sponsoring queue first and 2) all comment on the merges page if we already did something or want to work on it
<ari-tczew> OK, but as I said earlier, this is not first time
<dholbach> ari-tczew: I'm sure that if you mail Stephan and talk to him in a REASONABLE way about your sense of frustration, something good may come out of it
<geser> ari-tczew: have you tried to talk to the person who did the upload ignoring your debdiff?
<dholbach> but we absolutely don't accept language like the one above
<ari-tczew> geser: for what? now it's gone, merge done.
<geser> ari-tczew: why it happened and how it can be prevented from happening again
<ari-tczew> OK I'll ask him about this situation :]
<ari-tczew> can some one open task for jaunty, karmic and lucid on bug #371187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371187 in drupal6 "clean URL not enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371187
<ari-tczew> in my ignored debdiffs I have fixed this issue, so I want to make new debdiff
<geser> ari-tczew: have you talked to ScottK about it as he declined those tasks?
<ari-tczew> comment #8 says that this is can fixed only in lucid, right?
<geser> yes (but nothing stops you to try to convince Scottk if you have good arguments for a SRU)
<\sh> guys, I'm just reading the backlog (meetings suck)
<\sh> ari-tczew, sorry...I didn't check the sponsoring queue...just the mom list...
<ari-tczew> wow!
<ari-tczew> \sh: I wonder that you and other sponsors will checking in future more than only MoM list
<\sh> ari-tczew, btw, we can fix your #371187 issue in lucid still...
<\sh> ari-tczew, it would have been good, when you comment on the MoM list, that there is something, then the merging dude can visit the report and work with that...
<\sh> ari-tczew, anyways, it's not too late to fix some issues...I'm happy to push your changes
<ari-tczew> OK, I'll comment on the MoM list in future
<\sh> ari-tczew, it wasn't with purpose...so no need to be angry...:) and if you have something sh@sourcecode.de is my private mail :) and I'm reading it :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Since your drupal change is also changeable via an admin changing a config option, I don't think it warrants SRU.  I'm not on motu-sru, and so the final decision is really theirs.
<ari-tczew> \sh: just I wasted my time.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You wasted it by not checking with the previous uploader.  You should have done that first.  \sh should have also checked bugs, but you also have a role in this.
<\sh> clean urls in drupal are normally disabled (regarding the standard package from drupal upstream) because they can't know if the hosting provider or the server does have mod_rewrite and .htaccess enabled...regarding ubuntu, we didn't enable mod_rewrite by default...
<ScottK> It says right at the top of https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html, "If you are not the previous uploader, ask the previous uploader before doing the merge. This prevents two people from doing the same work."
<maxb> That reminds me
<ari-tczew> ScottK: so this is mistake the two of us
<maxb> andersk: I was thinking of merging subversion for lucid as I've kind of already done it for the PPA. Hence checking with you as previous uploader
<maxb> btw, the Subversion version I want to merge is failing its armel builds in Debian with a testsuite failure... does that mean I should not request sponsorship for getting it into lucid?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes, but the first was yours and your reaction wasn't very proffesional either.  In a large distributed team working on many things, sometimes things like this are going to happen.  It is unavoidable because we aren't perfect.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: okay, okay, it's gone.
<ari-tczew> in future I need to send mail (ask) to previously debdiff's merge uploader, then comment on the MoM list
<geser> ari-tczew: asking on IRC is also valid
<ari-tczew> geser: OK, but on IRC I must waiting to his presence, but e-mail is more confident for that he'll read my message
<geser> it's only a further option you have, and I use it also only when I know that the person is active on IRC
<ari-tczew> Ampelbein: do you will work on merge? bug #434433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434433 in gnome-devel-docs "Update to 2.28.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434433
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me what this error is - dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<siretart`> slytherin: try options -S
<slytherin> siretart I am using dpkg-buildpackage -b directly to build binary package.
<Laney> slytherin: apparently it can be caused by missing required targets in the rules file
<Laney> debian bug 447248
<ubottu> Debian bug 447248 in fusd-kor "fusd-kor - FTBFS: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/447248
<slytherin> Laney: There are no targets missing.
<geser> slytherin: for which arch is the package it fails on?
<slytherin> the package is arch:all and it is failing on i386.
<slytherin> Laney: geser: Here is rules file - http://paste.ubuntu.com/315936/
<Laney> slytherin: can you pastebin the build log too?
<slytherin> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/315939/
<siretart`> slytherin: do you have a 'debian/files' at all?
<slytherin> siretart`: I don't. I tried creating it but it is getting overwritten.
<geser> slytherin: -a = process only arch:any packages, but you want to build an arch:all
<geser> try removing the -a after dh_* in the binary-indep target (or replace with -i)
<slytherin> geser: that worked, but a different error.
<geser> what error do you get now?
<segler> hi, I'm searching for advocates, I changed my revu package according to comments. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks in advance
<geser> I assume a missing dh_gencontrol before dh_builddeb
<slytherin> geser: bingo. Found that from error.
<slytherin> geser: Laney: Now that I am used to cdbs, it is really pain to package from scratch using only debhelper.
<Laney> slytherin: Yeah I don't write debhelper stuff like that any more
<Laney> dh7 all the way
<slytherin> I want to learn dh7
<Laney> just start with the rules.tiny file
<Laney> and then override the commands you need to customise as required
<slytherin> but since I work on java packages most of the time cdbs is handy so there is not much motivation to learn dh7.
<Laney> yeah haskell is like that
<Laney> I want to write the dh7 integration code though
<Laney> apparently it's not so bad to integrate new build systems into the dh_auto_* stuff
<slytherin> time to go home. see you all later.
<wrapster> building a pkg breaks giving me this error http://pastie.org/693641
<wrapster> ive also pasted the rules file.. there.. But the irony there are several pkgs that have the same rules file.. but only a few break at this point.. can anyone pls help men.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<JonyBlaze> anyone here a watch file master?
<JonyBlaze> or know exactly how i can specify the local version in the watchfile
<JonyBlaze> in uscan man page it says you can but doesnt say how
<bddebian> What do you mean by specify the local version?
<wrapster> can anyone look at the pastie ive done pls.. its my first time ive encounterd this issue.
<bddebian> Adri2000: Are you still around/active??
<bddebian> I'd really like to get djplay "fixed" in Debian.
<bddebian> JonyBlaze: What do you mean by specify the local version?
<bddebian> geser: You fixed djplay in Ubuntu, any idea what's up with Adrien?  I was considering NMUing it but I'd rather patch it properly than making inline changes.
<JonyBlaze> bddebian: instead of it reading the version from the source dir
<JonyBlaze> bddebian: or control file or where ever it normally reads it
<bddebian> Why would you want to do that?  If you need to mangle the version, use dversionmangle
<bddebian> Screw it, I'm adding quilt and NMUing it
<JonyBlaze> because i fail at pearl?
<bddebian> JonyBlaze: What is the current debian version?
<JonyBlaze> 8.1.1.444
<bddebian> JonyBlaze: And what does upstream version look like, then?
<JonyBlaze> 811r444
<bddebian> ugh, wtf
<JonyBlaze> i know
<bddebian> You need to use uversion mangle then, not dversion mangle
<bddebian> Sorry I'm not sure I can do that one either but someone should be able to help.  Check the uversionmangle examples in man uscan, there are some similar.
<sebner> heya bddebian :)
<bddebian> Huhu sebner :)
<geser> bddebian: no idea, I only got one short comment from him on bug 428904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428904 in djplay "Build without glib1.2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428904
<sebner> hiya geser :)
<geser> Hi sebner
<JonyBlaze> bddebian: since i shouldnt relly use devel versions anyways and should just package stables how could i turn Pep811 to pep8simulator8.1.1
<JonyBlaze> or i wouldnt need to worry about the pep8simulator
<JonyBlaze> so 811 to 8.1.1
<JonyBlaze> that should be easy
<wrapster> is there anyone who can look at this http://pastie.org/693641 pls
<JonyBlaze> ok i figured it out
<bddebian> \o/
<bddebian> wrapster: Sorry, no clue on that one
<wrapster> bddebian: hmm ok.. will try to figure it out.
<cody-somerville> wrapster, Are you developing a package for Ubuntu or Nexenta?
<JonyBlaze> getting a lintain error about lucid being invalid is not something that i can fix atm is it?
<randomaction> it's not a problem, you just have old lintian
<JonyBlaze> so is it not ok to just include the copyright header and tell where to find it?
<JonyBlaze> in copyright
<blackxored> Hello, I'm just finishing the debian NM process, I'm waiting for DAM approval for becoming an official debian developer, I'm now just wondering if the process in ubuntu is easier than the one I've just passed, to see if I can become an ubuntu dev or MOTU as well, any clues?
<blackxored> hello, how can I join the motu team? and please don't paste me the wiki link, I'm just finishing debian NM process BTW
<siretart`> the wiki link explains that in full length
<blackxored> siretart, right, I've read the wiki long time ago, and I think nowhere explains how a DD can become a motu faster, which you told me on the #ubuntu-devel channel
<sebner> blackxored: well, you still have to do some work in ubuntu itself (merges, syncs which the wiki explains),  you must prove you can work with the freezes and the specific rules etc
<blackxored> sebner, that's exactly what I'm asking for, what a debian developer needs to know to become an ubuntu dev
<blackxored> enlighten me plz
<siretart`> blackxored: non debian folks need to show their contributions to
<siretart`> ubuntu. as DD, you can show your debian contributions. that's the shortcut
<blackxored> siretart, right
<blackxored> siretart, and after that?
<Laney> apply as normal
<Laney> You get to talk about your previous experience
<blackxored> where to apply
<blackxored> and if I have a person which is glad to sponsor me I can contact him for this, right?
<geser> MC (MOTU Council) or in the near future DMB (Developer Membership Board). There is some progress to merge MC into DMB
<Laney> try this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<Laney> you can talk to the MC for what they'd actually want to see of a DD applying to them
<geser> blackxored: for the application yes, they add their comments to your wiki page (see the template)
<blackxored> geser, right
<blackxored> do you think is ok if I start the process now
<geser> blackxored: the process itself is pretty short once you have your supporters. And you get your supporters by doing contributions, so they know you and you them
<blackxored> geser, fine
<geser> blackxored: as a DD you have already proved your packaging skills (else you wouldn't be DD), so what's missing is knowing the Ubuntu processes (syncs, merges, freeze exceptions) and working with the community and the community with you
<blackxored> geser, so what exactly I need to know, because I'm aware of what's a sync, what's a merge, how to do them, and community I dunno what you mean, I think you're talking about bug reports, patches and general feedback
<geser> once you got this parts, you can fill you wiki page, ask the persons you work with to add a comment and apply to the MC. the MC has a meeting twice a month where we process your application
<blackxored> geser, great I'll setup the wiki soon
<Laney> geser: would you expect to see direct contributions?
<geser> Laney: yes, but I assume that comes automatically when trying to get integrated
<geser> blackxored: in what part of Ubuntu do you plan to help?
<blackxored> geser, packaging aka MOTU
<Laney> sure
<blackxored> ScottK told me there are no so many MOTUs that know about java and encouraged me to integrate, also there's slythering which I've been working with since a time ago
<blackxored> that's basically what holds me in java, since I've almost replaced it entirely by ruby/jruby
<geser> yes, slytherin and IIRC ttx look after the java packages, so when you start working with them, you should get two possible supporters for your application
<Laney> just work through a sponsor for a little while and you will be ready to apply in no time
<geser> and probably some others depending on who sponsors your syncs, merges, debdiffs
<blackxored> geser, fine
<Laney> actually I find it weird sponsoring people who are better packagers than me
<blackxored> geser, I can initially start working in the same packages I maintain on debian
<blackxored> sadly, eclipse-ubuntu took a radically different approach for packaging, so I can't help a lot in here
<geser> it's up to you, we have here no maintainer lock
<blackxored> geser, I know
<Laney> you can help in reconciling the two distros ;)
<blackxored> geser, I hated that at the very beginning, but when I joined debian-java I started to see a good pattern in that approach
<yofel> hi, I've got some SRU questions: would the multiverse package 'rott' be SRUable? It can't be installed in karmic due to bug 411262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411262 in rott "package rott 1.1-3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411262
<geser> yofel: yes, that qualifies for SRU
<yofel> in short: it's a broken ftp link in the posinst script that leads to a broken state
<yofel> so if I want to sru this what do I need to do? subscrib motu-sru and then upload the package to karmic-proposed?
<yofel> *subscribe
<yofel> and the package maintainter needs to be set from the debian games team to Ubuntu MOTU Developers right?
<jdong> yofel: *puts on MOTU-SRU hat* I'd prefer attach a debdiff of what you'd upload to -proposed, subscribe motu-sru for an ACK, then upload.
<yofel> ok, I'll do that then, thanks!
<jdong> sure thing :)
<jdong> and since I happen to be around, feel free to ping me again once that's been done
<jdong> that way you aren't at the bottom of *looks* 190 LP e-mails.
<geser> bdrung_: do you know if the source packages pwdhash and stanford-pwdhash are the same?
 * jdong struggles to parse bug 480692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480692 in transmission "up grade ubuntu and transmission experience" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480692
<Laney> dtchen: Is bug 480796 alright? Just saw your comment on my blog post asking me to file a new bug.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480796 in linux "Speakers not muted when headphones inserted (Macbook 5.1, late 2008)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480796
<jdong> Laney: OOOOH! We're jacksense buddies!
<jdong> :)
<Laney> \o
<Laney> on the whole I'm impressed by Karmic on the macbook
<Laney> but there are a few niggles
<Laney> I wish monitor hotplugging worked better, for example
 * jdong nods
<jdong> my primary issue is the headphones
<jdong> and battery life.
<jdong> I can "only" pull 5:30-ish
<Laney> :O
<jdong> (considering the beefy thing's 90WHr battery on OS X can give me 7:30 usable life...)
<Laney> That's *way* more than me --- I think I get about 2.30-3
<jdong> yeah, the macbook is either 40 or 55 or 60Whr
<jdong> so you might have half-ish of my capacity
<Laney> I'm tremendously jealous of the new MBP batteries
<jdong> part of the battery life problem is that I've got the dual-GPU setup
<jdong> but BIOS boot can only see the beefy GPU
<bdrung_> geser: the content is the same. i dunno if the md5sum matches.
<jdong> which is quite unfortunate because I never do anything that requires a 9600GT :)
<geser> bdrung_: so it would be ok to remove stanford-pwdhash and keep pwdhash (coming from Debian)?
<bdrung_> geser: yes.
<bdrung_> geser: it was a source package rename.
<geser> ok, thanks. I'll file a removal request then.
<yofel> jdong: done, can you look at the debdiff?
<bdrung_> geser: won't the source packages removed if all binary packages are superseeded?
<geser> bdrung_: no, only if you request it. it will appear on the FTBFS list with "Failed to upload" as the version from the old source package is lower than the current one
<geser> that's how I found it
<bdrung_> geser: good to know.
<bdrung_> geser: is there a list of failed uploads?
<geser> only as part of http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<bdrung_> geser: found a bug on this page: the legend says "arch (B)" for failed to upload, but it is "arch (U)"
<geser> oops
<dtchen> Laney: yes, that's fine
<dtchen> keep in mind that some people will [be obtuse and] want to be able to control the hp separately
<Laney> I can see that it may not necessarily be headphones that are plugged in
<Laney> uncoupling the two could be a non-default option
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys is there a wikipage on how to add -dev packages?
<Laney> I doubt it
<Laney> just look at another similar package for how it's done there
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, yeah I;m going that I just had some doubts that I wanted to clarify... but I'll keep looking :)
<dtchen> bah, I'll just add the quirk to the driver now
<jdong> yofel: commented.
<yofel> jdong: thx, there is a newer package in debian unstable already that might fix it for lucid (I can't find the changelog for it)
<jdong> yofel: *nods* well if that's the case....
<jdong> yofel: I'd recommend versioning down to 3ubuntu0.1
<jdong> to indicate that it's a karmic-only SRU
<jdong> (comment on the bug afterwards to indicate the change in intention)
<jdong> also, make sure to reformat the bug description to match SRU guidelines
<jdong> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<jdong> #2 in that list
<directhex> does anyone else have an issue where nm-applet doesn't work? i just have an unclickable gap in my system tray instead
<Laney> yes
<Laney> it's just a black hole of nothingness
<yofel> jdong: just got the unstable source package, fixed there
<yofel> so that would be better for lucid
<jdong> yofel: ok, cool; update the debdiff then, and comment on the bug.
<directhex> Laney, any ideas?
<Laney> not at all
<Laney> try it in a new user and see if the problem happens there
<directhex> shall we blame jdong?
<directhex> Laney, works if i kill the nm-applet process & restart it
<Laney> what about if you kill the panel
<Laney> or disable compiz
<directhex> disabling compiz doesn't help
<directhex> bug 468437
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 468437 in network-manager-applet "nm applet is messed up after boot. Manual restart solves that" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/468437
<Laney> wiggle
<dtchen> Laney: have you tried writing hp_detect=1 to /sys/class/sound/hwC0D0/hints then 1 to /sys/class/sound/hwC0D0/reconfig ? Note that you'll have to kill *all* processes that have open descr (cf. sudo fuser -v /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/* /dev/seq*), and in the case of PA, you need to disable autospawn first. It should be obvious from dmesg output whether the reconfig succeeded.
<dtchen> you appear to have a similar issue where the HP jack also appears as a line-out, which has no jacksense.
<Laney> I think it can act as both
<dtchen> yes, hence the twice
<Laney> alrighty
<Laney> dtchen: http://dpaste.com/119251/
<yofel> jdong: updated, is this sufficient?
<Laney> didn't seem to make a difference
<dtchen> Laney: okay, any luck?
<dtchen> (I presume not -- it looks like you're missing a few verbs to twiddle the input sensing)
<Laney> dtchen: sadly not
<Laney> I'll be around if you need any more testing
<dtchen> Laney: I need physical access or the actual init stanzas from the OS X driver
<Laney> dtchen: How can I provide that? Not with source I hope...
<dtchen> Laney: TheMuso was looking at it earlier; he may have some inroad
<Laney> alright
<dtchen> (I suppose I could just go buy one and hack at it)
<ajmitch> that gets a little expensive
<dtchen> eh, I've been doing it for quite a few hardware enablement patches
<dtchen> I hate hardware :)
<ajmitch> I'm glad I never touch too much hardware :)
<yofel> jdong: checked it? or too busy right now?
<jdong> yofel: got distracted. Bug number again?
<blackxored> I have setup a mock wiki page with some info
<blackxored> siretart, geser, would you take a look in there ^^^^
<yofel> bug 411262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411262 in rott "package rott 1.1-3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411262
<blackxored> siretart, geser, ping
<LaserJock> blackxored: it might help if you gave the URL
<blackxored> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdrianPerez/YourDeveloperApplication
<blackxored> LaserJock, heheh right see there ^^^^^
<geser> blackxored: looks good so far
<blackxored> geser, that's good news then
<yofel> jdong: bug 411262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411262 in rott "package rott 1.1-3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411262
<jdong> yofel: you're ACKed again; proceed to upload
<yofel> jdong: ok, what server would that be? dput ubuntu *.changes?
<\sh> siretart, someone got fai working on karmic ... read mails... will try to come up with some packages for ubuntu karmic / lucid  in a week or so
<jdong> yofel: ah, you need a sponsor to upload that too, then, correct?
<yofel> jdong: well, this is my first attemt at a SRU and I'm not quite sure about the process, so I guess yes
<jdong> yofel: ok gimme one moment :)
<pace_t_zulu> open-vm-tools still hasn't been synced in lucid
<jdong> yofel: Uploaded into Ubuntu, awaiting archive admin approval :)
<jdong> you're all set
<yofel> jdong: so I don't have to do anything regarding the upload anymore?
<ScottK> jdong: This is 411262?
<jdong> ScottK: yes sir
<ScottK> Looking
<TheMuso> dtchen_, Laney, I *THINK* the info needed is in the Info.plist file of the kext used for HDA audio in OS X. Exactly where in the file, I don't know, as there is a lot of stuff in there, and probably relates to many revisions of HDA hardware that Apple use.
<pace_t_zulu> anyone know if the debian sync from sid for lucid is complete?
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: syncing is happening from testing, not sid
<ajmitch> unless otherwise requested for a package
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: ty
<ajmitch> open-vm-tools may not have migrated to squeeze yet
<TheMuso> dtchen_: I haven't heard from cacper, the person who did the initial macbook 5,1 enablement patches, as to how he got the info he needed.
<randomaction> pace_t_zulu: it'll continue until Feb 11
<geser> pace_t_zulu: you might need to ask an archive admin why open-vm-tools didn't yet get auto-synced
<pace_t_zulu> geser: there's no ubuntu archive admin for open-vm-tools
<ajmitch> I see it is at 2009.10.15-201664-1 in both squeeze & sid, so should have been synced
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: i had to request this package for karmic
<ajmitch> archive admins are the people who manage syncs & stuff
<pace_t_zulu> there is something that holds back open-vm-tools
<ajmitch> 'stuff' being a general technical term here :)
<ajmitch> it may have been on the blacklist at some point then, I can't remember where that's kept
<pace_t_zulu> anyone know where this blacklist is?
<geser> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt that one?
<ajmitch> that's what I thought, but can't see open-vm-tools on it
<pace_t_zulu> no open-vm-tools there
<geser> me neither
<geser> and it's in testing since 2009-11-01 too
 * ajmitch checks lp
<geser> what I can't tell is when the auto-sync was last done
<ScottK> jdong and yofel: Accepted.
<ajmitch> slowly...
<pace_t_zulu> i am the one who requested the sync for karmic
<jdong> whee!
<jdong> thanks ScottK
<ajmitch> certainly listed as still at the old version
<yofel> ScottK: thx :)
<pace_t_zulu> it was ftbfs for months in karmic ... even when debian had advance versions
<ScottK> There is a large stack of manual syncs waiting for archive admin review, so it's not suprising it didn't get done yet.
<ajmitch> it could be because it's in contrib, not main
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: It takes someone who knows about it asking and following through.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: that's what i'm doing :)
<ajmitch> I don't know what autosyncs are done for packages in contrib/nonfree
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: Glad to have you doing it.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: I'd be happy to take responsibility for this package
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: The way you do it, is just to do what you're doing now.
<pace_t_zulu> ScottK: my name is on the changelog for the current package
<ajmitch> bug 475735 is filed & has ubuntu-archive subscribed at least
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475735 in open-vm-tools "Please sync open-vm-tools 2009.10.15-201664-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475735
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: I filed that
<ScottK> AFAIK none of the lucid sync bugs have been processed yet.
<ajmitch> right, so you've done as much as is possible without poking archive admins with a sharp stick for now
<ScottK> Which isn't actually needed at the moment
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: how can i identify the archive admin for this package?
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: there's no archive admin per package, it's a team of people
<dtchen_> also, a bit of patience never hurts
<ajmitch> they handle syncs, new packages, etc for the whole distro
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: as you can see on this link https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/2009.07.22-179896-2 i got the package into karmic
<ajmitch> yes, you've said that a few times
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: i forget how i did that... any suggestions?
<ScottK> pace_t_zulu: There are 104 others waiting too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive?field.searchtext=sync&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status:list=NEW&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status:list=CONFIRMED&field.status:list=TRIAGED&field.status:list=INPROGRESS&field.status:list=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field
<ScottK> .has_no_package=
<ajmitch> probably the same way you did it now
<ScottK> Just be patient
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: i'm proud to have my name on a karmic package :)
<ajmitch> patience is usually a prerequisite for any development :)
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: got it
<ajmitch> there's still a few weeks before autosyncs stop, and a few weeks after that until feature freeze
<ajmitch> actually looking at the schedule, feature freeze is now a week after DIF
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: thanks for your help
 * ajmitch doesn't look forward to sorting out the SRU details for this boost-python stuff
<nixternal> don't do it then
<ajmitch> nixternal: but how can we disappoint our users like that? :)
<nixternal> oh, i forgot about the disappointment part..I have been gone for a month, and I am in desperate need of sleep, like a weeks worth
<kelvingardiner>  Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with a pbuilder problem? Is this the correct channel to ask this question in?
<ajmitch> nixternal: caffeine helps
<ajmitch> kelvingardiner: just ask, hopefully someone will know
<nixternal> no caffeine to fix this time
<nixternal> just finished riding 1900 miles on my bike in 28 days
<ajmitch> how will you live?
<nixternal> well, 24 days total
<ajmitch> ok, that would probably be a bit tiring
<ajmitch> so this means you'll be ready to unleash your fury upon lucid?
<nixternal> I had planned on it
<nixternal> downloading about 2384302840382043820432 new emails since Oct. 15
<nixternal> is UDS going on yet?
<ajmitch> next week I think
<LaserJock> next week I think
<ajmitch> you not going?
<dtchen_> what they said
<nixternal> hrmm, I might try and fly out depending on how I am feeling
<nixternal> I can stay with a friend, and the flight is only $99
<ajmitch> a little cheaper than it would be for me
<nixternal> just a bit :)
<kelvingardiner> I'm trying to build a new package by following the wiki guide, I can install the deb file I produce but when I try to test it with pbuilder it fails on a cairo as it cairo is missing. I have libcairo2 in the control file. I've not used pbuilder before I thought it resolved dependencies in chroot. Any ideas what is wrong? Thanks.
<ajmitch> you're most likely missing libcairo2-dev from Build-Depends
<randomaction> kelvingardiner: try to build-depend on libcairo-dev
<randomaction> right, on libcairo2-dev
<kelvingardiner> Thanks, I'll give it a try.
<kelvingardiner> That's fixed it.
<kelvingardiner> The package is an new upstream release of a current package, there is a lp bug open on it. If I attached my deb and deb diff to the lp will this package be looked at.
<geser> nixternal: so you are back or just passing by on your tour?
<nixternal> I am back
<nixternal> no more tours, my arse can't take it
<Laney> sexy
<nixternal> though I am planning on a good amount of rest for sure
<randomaction> kelvingardiner: make sure you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug (or ubuntu-main-sponsors for packages in main)
<kelvingardiner> randomaction: will do, thanks.
<ajmitch> nixternal: you've rested enough now
<nixternal> pfft
<ajmitch> nearly a month of holiday, and you need more rest?
 * geser wonders if there is an Ubuntu team participating at the Tour de France we could nixternal sign on
<nixternal> sign me up!
<nixternal> I can hang with them for the most part, but I am dead in the mountains
 * sebner heard that nixternal left Lance Armstrong behind *cough*
<nixternal> he is still somewhere on the east coast, I made it back to chicago already :)
<sebner> heh
<ari-tczew> how can I set hostmask?
<av`> ari-tczew, where?
<ari-tczew> generally, e.g. here
<ari-tczew> I'm newbie of irc
<ari-tczew> I see that someone has 'ubuntu member' in hostmask
<av`> depends, you can set a reverse dns over your IP you can use your own domain
<av`> those are for Ubuntu Members only
<av`> and are set by the IRC Team
<ari-tczew> what is the name of team called Ubuntu Members on launchpad?
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership has the details
<av`> or buy a shell and run your irc client for there :)
<av`> * from
<ari-tczew> I'm member of: ~ubuntu-users
<ari-tczew> this is it?
<wgrant> No. ~ubuntumembers. Read the page that ajmitch linked for membership requirements.
<av`> ari-tczew, it's a closed team
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: should i just wait for that list of bugs starting with
<ajmitch> wgrant: morning
<av`> and it's open to everyone who made a substantial contribution
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: sorry?
<pace_t_zulu> "sync" to shrink before i bring up open-vm-tools again?
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: sorry... hit [enter]. a bit quick
<ajmitch> pace_t_zulu: that bug will be dealt with either way, so just wait for it
<ari-tczew> ehhh, standards, procedures, bureaucracy...
<pace_t_zulu> ajmitch: ty
<ajmitch> archive admins will be a bit busy next week with UDS, so it'll be best not to annoy them
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: fairly standard when you have to try & coordinate alarge group of people
<ari-tczew> question: can I take e-mail address as like this: name.surname@ubuntu.com instead launchpadlogin@ubuntu.com ?
<Laney> no
<av`> ari-tczew, start contributing like hell before thinking of how your mail will look like
<wgrant> ajmitch: Morning.
<ari-tczew> av`: do you mean that I'm doing nothing?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm sure he doesn't.  Please don't be so quick to take offense.
<av`> ari-tczew, no, I wouldnt offend you or any other contributor, I just wanted to let you know that you have to contribute a lot to gain membership
<av`> thanks ScottK ;)
<MTecknology> !info dia
<ubottu> dia (source: dia): Diagram editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.97-2 (karmic), package size 199 kB, installed size 592 kB
<ari-tczew> av`: I understand it, but you must know, that we have too social (private) life, no only Ubuntu's life
 * cody-somerville doesn't. :P
<av`> ari-tczew, who doesn't, apart cody-somerville?
<av`> ari-tczew, I take your phrase as 'you are a no lifer'
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Except for cody-somerville, we all do.  You're contributions are welcome and I think you're doing a good job.
<jdong> grrrrr
<jdong> that was totally uncool.
<jdong> udevadm settle can't be done while udev is unconfigured.
<jdong> lol guess initramfs got generated in the wrong order.
<ari-tczew> but when I see that someone has uploaded more than 500 packages, I can't believe ;O
<av`> 500 packages over 5 years it's fine
<LaserJock> hmm, I've only got 107 uploads :(
<Laney> it's not about numbers
<LaserJock> it's *totally* about the numbers, clearly ;-)
<Laney> apparently I have done 296, but a big chunk of those have been mass rebuilds for transitions
<wgrant> LaserJock: But you predate LP, don't you?
<LaserJock> wgrant: I think LP still has a lot of the info
<LaserJock> but yes, I predate LP slightly
<wgrant> LaserJock: It will only include uploads that were published when the move happened, but I guess that should get most of them.
<Laney> old skool
<LaserJock> when I started bugzilla was still being used
<LaserJock> but very shortly thereafter Universe was moved to LP
<LaserJock> and then somewhere along the line we actually started using LP for uploads
<Laney> the archive ran on dak back then, didn't it?
 * ajmitch probably has about 20 uploads
<LaserJock> Laney: sure
<cody-somerville> Yes.
<Laney> wicked
<LaserJock> but ajmitch completely predates me :-)
<ajmitch> back in the good old days
<cody-somerville> Its only recent in fact that we totally migrated off Dak.
<ajmitch> ok, I was wrong, 154 on my uploads page
<wgrant> Ubuntu is still in dak, for rebuilds.
<Laney> I do believe that ajmitch was one of the 3 wise men
<Laney> he's been around a while
<wgrant> But security is finally in Soyuz now.
<ari-tczew> LP doesn't count security uploads, right?
<cody-somerville> I'm pretty sure they implemented mass rebuilds in soyuz
<cody-somerville> ari-tczew, it does
<wgrant> ari-tczew: It sort of does.
<wgrant> But they count as PPA uploads that you probably can't see.
<ajmitch> Laney: I'm still new around here, I didn't work on warty
<Laney> were you around Debian before then?
<ajmitch> yes
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Right, but lamont still runs dak rebuilds internally since the LP facility has only been used twice and still isn't perfect (eg. does not use its own output).
<cody-somerville> wgrant, thats only for embargoed security uploads
<cody-somerville> wgrant, ah
<wgrant> cody-somerville: All security uploads have to go via a non-virtual PPA first, and I believe in most cases (except some Mozilla stuff), that is the ~ubuntu-security P3A.
<cody-somerville> Thats only for embargoed security updates.
<cody-somerville> Otherwise security uploads would be limited to the Canonical security team
<cody-somerville> which isn't the case
<wgrant> They are.
<wgrant> They must be sponsored.
<wgrant> Builds are never executed for the security pocket of the primary archive.
<wgrant> They must build elsewhere.
<cody-somerville> Is this new?
<wgrant> No.
<cody-somerville> I've done security uploads before
<cody-somerville> I'm almost positive
<wgrant> Well, you probably have access to non-virt PPAs.
<cody-somerville> I didn't use a PPA
<cody-somerville> I'm pretty sure at that time PPAs did not exist
<wgrant> Um, then at that point security was done through dak.
<wgrant> And then uploaded via a backdoor in LP.
<wgrant> But you wouldn't have done the upload yourself.
<cody-somerville> noodles775, at the time I think I was a motu-hopeful
<cody-somerville> errr
<cody-somerville> wgrant, at the time I think I was a motu-hopeful
<cody-somerville> The package was syslog-ng and it shows up in my list
<wgrant> Security uploads from the pre-SiS days will, yes.
<wgrant> Because they were effectively reuploaded to the primary archive.
<wgrant> With SiS, they are just copied from the P3A. No new upload occurs.
<wgrant> Which can really throw off numbers :(
<cody-somerville> So are you saying the motu-swat team has to get the Canonical Security team to sponsor all their security uploads?
<wgrant> Yes.
<cody-somerville> how odd
<cody-somerville> oh wow, the launchpad source code has changed quite a bit since I was last hacking on it.
<wgrant> Everything has moved around, yes.
<wgrant> But the Soyuz bits remain as archaic as ever, unfortunately.
<cody-somerville> did they move almost everything from lib/launchpad/canonical/ and split it up under lib/lp/ ?
<wgrant> lib/canonical/{launchpad,archiveuploader,archivepublisher,codehosting} are now under lib/lp, yes.
<wgrant> And lots of the other lib/canonical stuff is now in LAZR, so comes from eggs.
<cody-somerville> are they still using apt-ftparchive for the primary archive?
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> But partner is back on NMAF
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: you had the joy of touching launchpad previously?
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, I wrote the close bug on pocket copy feature.
<ajmitch> I'm surprised you're still sane :)
<ajmitch> I haven't had much time to dig into LP, but I'm taking a look at bug 297709 at the moment because it annoys me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297709 in malone ""X-Launchpad-Bug: component" wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297709
<wgrant> LP isn't as insanity-inducing as dak.
<ajmitch> it causes too much mail to go to universe-bugs still
<wgrant> ajmitch: That bug will involve learning about the Soyuz model. You probably want to run away.
<ajmitch> No doubt I will
<ajmitch> I started tracing through which classes I find these pieces in
<LaserJock> wgrant: so is the multidistrotools on qa.ubuntuwire.com basing off of testing now instead of unstable?
<wgrant> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> I wonder how much diff there is between testing and unstable
<LaserJock> I suppose that'd be an easy multidistrotools check
<wgrant> It'll take a couple of minutes to execute.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-12
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that reminds me, I should update the rc bugs tracker to look at testing when I switch it to lucid
<ajmitch> until then, it's useful for karmic SRUs
<LlamaZorz> Hey guys,does anybody know when firefox forks for the flash plugin?
<ScottK> LlamaZorz: The firefox maintainers hang out in #ubuntu-mozillateam.
<LlamaZorz> Thanks scott
<JonyBlaze> if a package from debian has the wrong standards version in control should it still be synced or should it be updated and merged?
<RoAkSoAx> JonyBlaze, if that the only change it can be synced
<JonyBlaze> that seems to be the only thing wrong with it
<JonyBlaze> other than DD's not patching although there is a patch system
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: We don't worry about updating standards version in Ubuntu.
<JonyBlaze> okey dokey
<ScottK> In fact, if a previous Ubuntu upload bumped the standards version it's wrong and the change should be dropped on the next merge or synced
<JonyBlaze> so the sync wiki list 3 conditions that i sync isnt needed so if those are meet we dont sync till after debian import freeze?
<JonyBlaze> i=a
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: I don't understand.  Can you give a specific example?
<JonyBlaze> it says if:
<JonyBlaze> #
<JonyBlaze> we're before DebianImportFreeze (check ReleaseSchedule) and
<JonyBlaze> # our version of the package has no Ubuntu changes
<JonyBlaze> # and the Debian package is in sid
<JonyBlaze> then An explicit sync is not necessary
<JonyBlaze> the package im looking at meets all of those
<ScottK> The it will get sync'ed automatically
<ScottK> What package?
<JonyBlaze> solfege
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: The current version of solfege is 3.14.5-1ubuntu1.  It has Ubuntu changes.
<ScottK> If the change has been incorporated in Debian and we don't need to maintain it anymore, then a sync has to be manually requested
<JonyBlaze> ahh i see someone changed it when they merged it
<ScottK> It hasn't been merged for Lucid.  That's the same version Karmic has.
<ScottK> The packages on merges.ubuntu.com are the ones that need merging
<ScottK> (or syncing)
<JonyBlaze> yeah thats were i got it from
<tritium> Hello!
<ScottK> tritium: Hello!!
<tritium> How are you, ScottK?
<ScottK> tritium: I have the flu.
<ScottK> Other than that, fine.
<tritium> Ooh, sorry to hear that.
<ajmitch> hi tritium
<tritium> ajmitch!  Long time no see!  :)
<ajmitch> it's been quite awhile, how are you?
<tritium> Doing quite well, thanks.  Holding my six-month-old daughter as we speak.  It doesn't get much better than that.  =)
<ajmitch> excellent :)
<tritium> And how are you?
<ajmitch> good, busy, wishing I could have a holiday :)
<tritium> Ah, indeed.
<ajmitch> so you'll be keen to get back into MOTU then?
<tritium> ajmitch: Oh, I'm not so sure if now is the best time.  Thanks for the thought, though.  :)
<tritium> I really come seeking an answer to a question.
<ajmitch> surely you'll have lots of spare time with a 6-month-old? :)
<tritium> heh, right!
<ajmitch> what was your question?
<tritium> So, I'm curious about something.  ngspice (http://ngspice.sourceforge.net/) used to be in Ubuntu, back in hoary, and then was removed from debian and ubuntu due to licensing issues.  Those issues have been resolved, and ngspice is now in debian testing, in the non-free section.  Will it be automatically merged into karmic?
<tritium> I'm unfamiliar with the merge-o-matic process after all this time.
<ajmitch> this was something that came up earlier today - I'm not sure if the autosyncs will drag stuff in from contrib/non-free
<ajmitch> it's not on the blacklist at least
<tritium> I see.
<tritium> If not, ajmitch, what would be the proper process to request the sync?
 * tritium is pretty excited about the prospect of getting ngspice back in the repositories
<ajmitch> use the requestsync tool for it
<ajmitch> I'll be back in a min, got a phone call :)
<tritium> Take your time.  :)
<tritium> This is very encouraging too: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/openproj
 * RoAkSoAx hates homework >(
<ajmitch> tritium: ok, back
<tritium> ajmitch: ok :)
<ajmitch> now I haven't used requestsync for a little while, but it should be mostly automagic these days
<tritium> I'll do some digging, then, and see what I can find.
<ajmitch> I'm not sure if it's worth filing a sync request just at the moment while there's a large pile & autosyncs are still happening, but I suspect it'll be needed for non-free
<ajmitch> 'man requestsync' should cover most of it if you have ubuntu-dev-tools installed
<tritium> But being non-free doesn't automatically make it a no-go, which is encouraging.
<ScottK> The biggest suprise from the old days is requestsync is in ubuntu-dev-tool and not devscripts
<ScottK> tritium: It just means it goes into Multiverse
<tritium> Speaking of the "old days", I can't believe there are > 200 nicks in here!
<tritium> Ah, thanks, ScottK.  That makes sense.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I know you've had the joy of dealing with boost a little - do you know if we'll keep boost1.38 around in lucid, since it's due to be removed from sid?
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm guessing we'll go to 1.40.  I hope to bring it up next week.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I want to do an SRU for 1.38 in karmic
<ScottK> This is for the Python thing?
<ajmitch> the package I know it affects has problems with 1.40, according to the debian changelog
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I need to check if it affects 1.40 as well, I suspect it does
<ScottK> From what I know, I'm pretty sure it does
<ajmitch> the patch should just drop in place for 1.40 as well then, I'll take a look
<ScottK> Cool.
<tritium> ajmitch, ScottK: thank you both!  I'll be heading off to bed shortly.  Nice catching up with you again.  :)
<ajmitch> good to see you around, I hope you drop in more often
<tritium> I will!
 * ajmitch should have got a laptop with an SSD
<ajmitch> building stuff on it is fairly noticeable at the moment
<JonyBlaze> do you guys think this bug is resolved? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=533993
<ubottu> Debian bug 533993 in solfege "solfege: FTBFS: failed to load external entity "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd"" [Serious,Open]
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: Why would you think it was?
<JonyBlaze> there are reports its fixed but its still open and is scetchy
<ajmitch> nothing in the changelog since that was filed mentions it
<JonyBlaze> what changelog?
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: The end of the bug discussion says otherwise.
<JonyBlaze> upstream?
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: The debian/changelog for the version in Debian
<ajmitch> changelog for the debian package
<JonyBlaze> right, which is why i left the ubuntu fix in my proposed merge just wanting another opinion
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: If the Ubuntu patch fixes the problem, it might (I didn't check for sure) make sense to send the patch to the Debian bug.
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: Also did you check with the previous uploader of the package?
<JonyBlaze> about the fix?
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: No, before you did the merge.
<JonyBlaze> >.>
<ScottK> The merges.ubuntu.com page says to do this to avoid duplicate work.
<JonyBlaze> <.<
<JonyBlaze> it aslo says to make a bug report and set it to in progress when starting
<JonyBlaze> seemed like overlaping
<JonyBlaze> i will from now on though if it is deff expected
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: If someone is the last to touch a package they should (at least early in the cycle) be able to assume that unless someone has contacted them, they are clear to work on the package.
<JonyBlaze> ok
<serialorder> im trying to do a debdiff between two packages and I know they are different but debdiff returns with no output
<serialorder> any ideas what might be causing that?
<serialorder> never mind i had a typo =| sotty
<serialorder> sorry*
<JonyBlaze> iheh does submittodebian expect me to have sendmail setup?
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: No.  It expects reportbug, but you don't want that anyway.
<ScottK> submittodebian files a new bug.  You want to add the patch to the existing bug.
<ScottK> JonyBlaze: Send a mail to 533993@bugs.debian.org with the patch attached and explain why it's a good solution to the problem.
<JonyBlaze> it aloowed me to pick what bug
<JonyBlaze> err allowed
<ScottK> OK
 * ScottK hasn't used it.
<JonyBlaze> after an hour of fighting with exim i got it to work!
<JonyBlaze> submittodebian is quite nice
<JonyBlaze> adds all the tags and strange debian stuff for you
<JonyBlaze> does everything but wipe your ass
<JonyBlaze> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=533993
<ubottu> Debian bug 533993 in solfege "solfege: FTBFS: failed to load external entity "http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd"" [Serious,Open]
<JonyBlaze> is what it sends
<siretart> \sh: wow, excellent news. Leave me a note with your test packages, we'll need to upgrade our local pool RSN to karmic...
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> siretart, moins
<\sh> siretart, will do...looks like that from next week on I have a bit more sparetime to do some enjoying work...so trying to push fai back into ubuntu :)
<siretart`> sounds great!
<siretart`> our install server runs hardy, so I'll take the 'backporting' part over :-)
<cristim> hello, can anyone tell why would the gcl package depend on the emacs editor?
<Rhonda> cristim: changelog says "* Depend on emacs22 | emacsen, Closes: #440190", so that would be http://bugs.debian.org/440190 for the reasoning. :)
<cristim> weird
<mariuz> seems to be an issue with the dvd mirrors
<mariuz> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#dvd
<mariuz> choose the last mirror http://mirror.fslutd.org/linux/distributions/ubuntu/release/dvd/feisty/release/
<mariuz> it's p0rn site
<dholbach> mariuz: passed the info on
<directhex> oh, that's an unexpected issue
<Ademan> what should i do to find out about the new gdm/xsplash system?  I haven't run into anything from the simple greeter or xsplash that has any documentation...
<dholbach> directhex: we've been in that domain before ;-)
<directhex> dholbach, ubuntu-calendar doesn't count!
<Ademan> also while i'm at it... the upstart script for gdm has a seemingly magical variable $CONFIG_FILE, I don't see where that's ever set, is it set by upstart? how?
<directhex> and i liked ubuntu-calendar :(
<Ademan> also sorry for invading, #ubuntu+1 was the best channel i could think of, and it dumped me here...
<dholbach> directhex: I thought it was a great idea too :)
<directhex> dholbach, btw, if it comes up at UDS (which i'm not attending this time), "gnote upstream is dead"
<dholbach> directhex: best tell the guys in #ubuntu-desktop
<slytherin> Ademan: You will find gdm/upstart experts in #ubuntu-devel
<alex-weeej> root-system doesn't seem to be installable on karmic :(
<alex-weeej> http://pastebin.ca/1667987
<alex-weeej> can anyone help me fix this?
<geser> it's probably bug 462059
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 462059 in root-system "libkrb53 package required instead of libkrb5-3 in Karmic" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462059
<slytherin> directhex: What do you mean by gnote is dead upstream? How come the development has stalled suddenly?
<directhex> slytherin, it's not sudden. it was only ever a 1-man project, plus translators. translations continue, but hub has said he's not interested in continuing maintenance. i can find the ML post if you like
<slytherin> so what was the point of starting the project in first place. Just because of mono hatred?
<directhex> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnote-list/2009-October/msg00001.html
<directhex> http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/07/27/680-why-i-did-write-gnote is the formal reason given for writing gnote
<slytherin> directhex: in first mail, it is mentioned that gnote is default in gnome. I wonder when that happened.
<directhex> it's the default in fedora 12's gnome desktop
<directhex> fedora moved from tomboy to gnote for "space" reasons, because it's impossible to fit mono on a cd-installed os. and OOo too, which is also not on the default install
<slytherin> too bad now they will have to revert again in next release. :-(
<directhex> or take on upstream maintainership
<directhex> if that's what's needed to continue excluding mono from RHEL, i can see it being considered
<directhex> multidistrotools is awesome.
<wgrant> directhex: What have you done with it, and which branch are you using?
<directhex> wgrant, i have no idea, you set it up
<directhex> it's just phenomenally useful
<wgrant> Oh, right.
<wgrant> I thought you might have done something more interesting yourself.
<directhex> nah, i'm boring
<yoshi765> DAMN UBUNTU
<directhex> that was insightful!
<mok0> A bot, clearly
<Laney> hahaha
<ward-> Failed to fetch http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  403  Forbidden
<ward-> theres allmost allways something wrong with this annoying mirror.....
<slytherin> ward-: then change the mirror
<ward-> slytherin, ok sorry that i reported it i guess
<ward-> keep broken crap in the mirror list is the way to go obviously
<ward-> thanx for your valuable time
<Pici> ward-: motus aren't responsible for mirroring....
<slytherin> ward-: I never said that. Have you reported that it is broken?
<Pici> bleh.
<Pici> I'll send something off to the contact information listed on LP for that mirror
<FFEMTcJ> dholbach: ?
<cristim> hello, what happens after a PPA is merged, where can we find the packages that were in there?
<bigon> could a dbus guy have a look at this bug?
<bigon> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-vpnc/+bug/360818
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360818 in network-manager-openvpn "NetworkManager.vpn fails -- nm-vpn-connection.c.900: NeedSecrets " [Medium,Confirmed]
<dholbach> FFEMTcJ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<KelvinGardiner> Hi, I'm trying to update a package. debuild fails as a patch can't be applied, the patch is here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/317026/ . I copied the debain dir from the old package, the new code is version 2.3.0 so the path in the patch is wrong. I've check the desktop file and it reflects this patch. Is it safe to delete this patch, should I remove the patch command from the rules files and how to I document this i
<KelvinGardiner> n the package? Thanks.
<azeem> KelvinGardiner: the path shouldn't matter, you need to investigage why it does not apply
<azeem> maybe it got already applied in the new upstream versionÃ?
<KelvinGardiner> azeem: yes, latest the desktop file already has the patch applied. So I suppose it fails because it can't find the old line to remove.
<azeem> yes, patching fails if the patch has been applied already
<azeem> so this patch needs to be dropped
<KelvinGardiner> azeem: ok thanks, should I leave  dpatch apply-all in the rules files for ant future pacthes.
<azeem> are there any other patches?
<azeem> if not, it's still fine to leave it, yes
<azeem> also see whether you need to update debian/patches/00list
<KelvinGardiner> azeem: There are no other patches, I'll leave it in. Thanks.
<KelvinGardiner> azeem: It only had on line for the old patch I removed it and left a empty file, is that okay?
<corp186> how do I file a needs-packaging bug?
<corp186> when I click on "Report a bug", it goes to an ubuntu wiki page talking about filing bugs against individual packages
<azeem> KelvinGardiner: yes
<corp186> I just found the no-redirect link, I assume that's right
<KelvinGardiner> azeem: thanks
<corp186> I uploaded a new package to revu, but it only sees the last package in the control file
<corp186> how do I get it to see all the packages, or at least the first package, which is the most relevant
<dholbach> geser, jpds: alarm clocks set? :)
<FFEMTcJ> dholbach: can I PM you?
<jpds> dholbach: They always are. ;)
<dholbach> FFEMTcJ: sure
<dholbach> :-)
<wrapster> any idea why this might occur. http://pastie.org/695678 ...
<wrapster> its with regard to nexenta.. pls dont flame me.. Im just asking help from everywhere I can. sorry if it might not be appropriate...
<wrapster> :)
<dholbach> wrapster: no idea, sorry - it is a solaris kernel build or something?
<cody-somerville> wrapster, are you building on i386?
<wrapster> cody-somerville: yeah..
<cody-somerville> wrapster, and its complaining about not being able to find /root/build1/nexenta-gate/onnv-gate/proto/root_i386/platform/i86pc/kernel/cpu/amd64/cpu_ms.GenuineIntel.6.46
<wrapster> yeah.
<cody-somerville> you can't build amd64 stuff on i386
<jdong> cody-somerville: is that true on Solaris?
<geser> dholbach: yes, my alarm clock is set to 30 min before the meeting, this should leave me exactly 30 min to get out of bed and to the meeting :)
<jdong> where the userland is more or less multiarch
<dholbach> geser: nice
 * cody-somerville shrugs.
<corp186> is it considered OK to ask for new package advocates on a relevant irc channel?
<corp186> if not, how do packages get advocates? just wait for advocates to browse through them on revu?
<jdong> corp186: I'd consider it appropriate if done tastefully
<jdong> i.e. average about once per day :)
<exalted> Hi there. I'm currently developing face detection for F-Spot, for that reason I need up-to-date packages for OpenCV library and introduce a new package for EmguCV C# wrapper for OpenCV. Is there any mentor here who could help me during packaging and publish either on PPA@LP or where ever both of these pieces? Thanks.
<Whoopie> siretart: Hi, I have a question regarding bug #172938. To enable the UPnP plugin in karmic, only the libupnp3-dev dependency must be added. Could this simple change be a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 172938 in vlc "VLC should include upnp support" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172938
<Whoopie> siretart: it built fine in my PPA
<jdong> Whoopie: what was the cause?
<jdong> oh
<jdong> I should learn to read.
<jdong> I'd be willing to accept that as a SRU
<jdong> I'd recommend opening up a new bug though
<jdong> with a more causal description
<jdong> (i.e. VLC lacks build-dep on libupnp3-dev)
<Whoopie> jdong: http://en.pastebin.ca/1668439
<Whoopie> that would be the debdiff
<jdong> :)
<jdong> I'd be willing to ACK that :)
<Whoopie> jdong: thanks, I'll open a new bug and add the new LP number to the changelog
<jdong> awesome
<jdong> ping me again once you have the new bug number
<Whoopie> jdong: I could also fix bug #439077, #439131 and #447124 at the same time. What do you think?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439077 in vlc "enable globalhotkeys in karmic vlc" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439077
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439131 in vlc "libcddb2 not enabled in karmic vlc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439131
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447124 in vlc "vlc build in karmic needs recent commits to fix wma decoding regression issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447124
<jdong> Whoopie: let's just fix all the build-dep missing ones.
<jdong> in this SRU
<jdong> and do a separate SRU for the commit backports.
<Whoopie> ok
<fcuk112> how do i get a list of triaged bugs?
<blackxored> ScottK, what's Iulian Undrea's nickname here??
<ScottK> blackxored: iulian.
<blackxored> iulian, ping
<blackxored> ScottK, thx
<blackxored> ScottK, BTW I'm starting to apply for MOTU as we were discussing the other day
<ScottK> OK.  We can use the Java help.
<blackxored> ScottK, I'm willing to do as much as my time allows me to ;)
<iulian> blackxored: pong.
<blackxored> iulian, pv
<EzraR> anyone bored enough to advocate my package on REVU? :)
<cyphermox> EzraR, just curious, which package?
<EzraR> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7017
<christoph_debian> hm has debian syncing for lucid already started?
<sebner> christoph_debian: yes
<christoph_debian> but no reason to worry if some package hasn't been synced yet hopefully
<sebner> christoph_debian: in general yes + mind that we are syncing from testing
<EzraR> feb11 is debimport freeze
<siretart`> Whoopie: jdong: It would be great if we could have the missing build-dep fixed in debian and lucid first. - otherwise no objections from my side.
<jdong> siretart`: understood. Absolutely lucid tasks will be held open and I trust that Whoopie will follow up in Debian too :)
<Whoopie> jdong: ?
<Whoopie> I just have karmic here.
<ajmitch> morning
<jdong> Whoopie: well our policy for SRU's is "fix it in Lucid before SRU'ing to Karmic"
<jdong> you don't have to run Lucid or Debian
<jdong> just keep on top of the bug ticket to make sure it does get fixed there
<jdong> (in a timely manner)
<Whoopie> siretart, jdong: this is the debdiff for karmic-proposed -> http://en.pastebin.ca/1668674
<Whoopie> siretart, jdong: I can download the vlc source for lucid and make a debdiff. But could you take care of Debian?
<ajmitch> jdong: it gets harder when the unmodified karmic package doesn't build in lucid for some reason :)
 * ajmitch hugs boost
<jdong> ajmitch: hahaha indeed :)
<jdong> in which case it turns into a scarlet letter protocol thing
<jdong> we love our stable users :)
<ajmitch> I need to figure out why it's failing to find pyconfig.h
<jdong> and it's the lifelong burden of the SRU'er to make sure it gets into the devel release in time
<jdong> *ducks*
<ajmitch> yay
<siretart`> Whoopie: yes, that's why I've asked you to cc the mail to the pkg-multimedia list. That team maintains vlc in both debian and ubuntu
<ajmitch> actually I'm fixing boost1.38, which will probably be removed from lucid
<ajmitch> but I was trying to patch 1.40 last night & having it failing to build, so I got annoyed :)
<siretart`> Whoopie: btw, we use the motumedia ppa for these kind of packages...
 * siretart` already runs lucid :-)
 * ajmitch has a VM for that
 * StevenK has chroots for that sort of thing
<Whoopie> siretart`: what does that mean for my debdiff?
 * jdong follows in ajmitch's VM philosophy :)
<jdong> and tosses in some btrfs for crack.
<ajmitch> !jdong
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about jdong
<ajmitch> aw
<jdong> :)
<ajmitch> who removed the crack?
<jdong> I think it's only in off topic channels now
<jdong> [citation needed]
<FFEMTcJ> siretart`: where can i get lucid at?
<ajmitch> FFEMTcJ: if you're *really* brave & want breakage, change karmic to lucid in your sources.list & dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> but only if you want to fix things, really
<FFEMTcJ> gotcha.
<FFEMTcJ> i was thinkin about doing that on a vm
<ajmitch> it's the safest way to do it
<ajmitch> rather than being left with an unbootable computer at some point
<jdong> use the ring
<jdong> (tm)
<jdong> or a software emulation of it.
 * ajmitch usually waits a month or more before putting a development release on real hardware
<ajmitch> has it been decided if we'll kepp python2.5 in universe for lucid?
<ScottK> ajmitch: It's already not a supported Python version so modules aren't built for it.  Not sure what the point would be.
<ajmitch> ok, that'll make things fun for some projects
<geser> ajmitch: as we still have python3.0 in universe, I guess we can keep python2.5 too
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, I fixed yer' bug fyi
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: oh that's no fun
<siretart`> Whoopie: sorry? I'm not sure I understand the question
 * ajmitch should have assigned to self to not waste the time
<Whoopie> siretart`: why did you mention motumedia PPA?
<siretart`> Whoopie: oh, that was related to "having fixed packages for karmic and earlier"
<Whoopie> siretart`: ok, I have debdiffs for karmic-proposed and lucid. where to send?
<siretart`> pkg-multimedia-maintainers at lists.alioth.debian.o
<pace_t_zulu> has anyone started packaging go for ubuntu yet?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-13
 * jdong has successfully cleared his LP bugmail folder.
<ajmitch> delete all?
<dtchen_> I'm envious
<dtchen_> 1 - 100 of 12626
<ajmitch> quick, file more bugs for jdong!
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> don't do that!
<jdong> and I SWEAR clearing involved reading and taking action ;-)
<ajmitch> sure
<cody-somerville> 11037 bugmails here : (
<ajmitch> so the aim is for lucid to have less bugs open than karmic did at release :)
<dtchen_> I'm not even going that route
<ajmitch> not even for audio bugs?
<dtchen_> If we can get 10.04 out the door with fewer known issues, I'll be happy
<dtchen_> yeah, I've long since stopped caring about open bugs. It seems like a get about six hundred a day.
<dtchen_> like I get*
<ajmitch> even the bug stats page that I remember hasn't been updated since april
<ajmitch> at the rate it's taking me to fix a bug in a single package, I expect to fix 5 bugs by lucid release
<dtchen_> I'm actually blocked on upstream for 2 significant annoyances :/
<ajmitch> more HDA stuff?
<dtchen_> nope, PA
<dtchen_> it's getting close to F12 release, though, so I suppose that's understandable
<ajmitch> the only hardware issues I have to complain about are only suspend/hibernate/resume related now, and they mostly just work
<ajmitch> sound is working nicely thanks to you & alsa upstream
<dtchen_> for lucid, we'll probably have crack-of-the-day builds for alsa-driver stable
<ajmitch> in a snapshot package in main?
<dtchen_> nope, universe for src:linux-backports-modules-2.6.3x -> bin:linux-backports-modules-alsa-2.6.3x-yy-generic
<ajmitch> makes sense
<ajmitch> more visible than a PPA
<dtchen_> well, I suppose it would still be src:main -> universe:bin
<ajmitch> do you think you'll update them post-release in lucid-updates?
<dtchen_> yes, I hope so
<dtchen_> smb just applied the wifi updates from 2.6.32-rc6 for karmic-proposed
<ajmitch> 3 years of driver backports for desktops
<dtchen_> I utterly fail at analogy ordering, apparently. src:main -> bin:universe
 * ajmitch understood it still :)
<ajmitch> I know that there'll be a large number of new packages that people want to get in through REVU again, if we can afford to carry them
<ajmitch> but that's something for those who go to UDS to care about
<dtchen_> I need more hours in a day
<ajmitch> don't we all?
<dtchen_> quilt pop -a
<dtchen_> bah
<ajmitch> quilt refresh
<TheMuso> I only care about revu these days if there is a package I want to get into main, or for studio, where there is a group of us who maintain it.
<ScottK> ajmitch: How's boost going?
<ajmitch> 1.40 built for lucid in my PPA, after I stripped the python 2.5 stuff
<ajmitch> 1.38 should get merged for lucid if we're keeping it, I haven't done it yet
<ajmitch> but it works for karmic once I put some more detail in the changelog
<ajmitch> of course there's now a possibility it could be fixed in python rather than just in boost
<segler> hi, i need an advocate. please have a look at my small python rhythmbox plugin at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser, thanks
<c_korn> is there a game packages somewhere which needs to write into its game directory ?
<c_korn> s/packages/packaged/
<serialorder> i am looking at the diff between a denian and ubuntu package and one of the few differences I see is ubuntu has DH_VERBOSE := 1 DH_OPTIONS += --with=quilt while debian does not in debian/rules
<serialorder> I am wondering if that is something I should keep or not?
<ScottK> Are there patches applied in the Ubuntu version?
<serialorder> scottk, yes there is one patch applied in the ubuntu version that is not applied in the debian version and there are two that are applied in both
<ScottK> I'd keep it then
<serialorder> whould you mind explaining whay its there/what its doing?
<serialorder> oh I think i see the difference the ubuntu version has %:  dh $@   while the debian version has %:  dh  --with=quilt $@  so it looks like they just specify it in different places
<ajmitch> minimise the difference from debian then
<ScottK> Agreed
<serialorder> that leaves only one difference in debian/rules which are the lines DH_VERBOSE := 1  and export DH_VERBOSE how important is it to keep that?
<ScottK> Drop it.
<serialorder> dropped! =)
<serialorder> anyone have a link to what the different versions for a watchfile mean? I asked google but it has failed me
<nhandler> kirkland: Is there an argument you can pass to testdrive to have it not use virtualbox?
<RAOF> serialorder: There's version 3, which is the one that's current, and works.  There are apparently two other versions, 1 & 2, but I've never encountered one of them in the wild, and I'm not sure they actually work.
<serialorder> RAOF, ok maybe thats why google 'failed' =) use version 3 got it
<mmmiiikkkeee> Hi, what is the point of this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot  if pbuilder already sets up a chroot enviroment for when it builds a package? does pbuilder use that chroot env or makes a different one? should i be running pbuilder in the original chroot enveriment(no?)? how do all these pieces work together?
<serialorder> i take it that if debian/control has a launchpad bzr and the debian version has a debian git I should keep the launchapd bzr ?
<RAOF> If that's where it's being maintained, yes.
<kirkland> nhandler: you would rather it use kvm, or what?
<nhandler> kirkland: Yeah, is there a way to specify if it should use kvm or virtualbox?
<kirkland> nhandler: it should use kvm by default, if you can use it
<kirkland> nhandler: if kvm-ok; then
<kirkland>         VIRT="kvm"
<kirkland> nhandler: does kvm-ok return non-zero?
<serialorder> RAOF,  it looks like it is being maintained in both places
<serialorder> also should I do the merge with bzr or like i usually do with filing a bug and attaching a debdiff?
<RAOF> Is it being maintained _in Ubuntu_ at the launchpad address?  It sounds like the answer is 'yes, so yeah, that's what should be in VCS-Bzr.
<serialorder> RAOF, yes it is ok
<serialorder> thanks
<RAOF> Doing the merge in bzr may be good; that depends in part on how familiar you are with bzr and how familiar your sponsor is with bzr.
<serialorder> I guess the reason I ask is that from what I understand/have heard soon all packages are going to have a bzr trunk in launchpad so i figured figuring out how to do a merge that way might be important
<serialorder> but it sounds like i can/should just do it the 'normal' way
<hedkandi> hello I'd like to put a page onto the ubuntu wiki. How would I do this?
<hedkandi> the page I'm interested in is marked "immutable" which means it's not a wiki
<hedkandi> the principle of wiki is that anyone can come along and edit it
<hedkandi> so I really don't see that it should be called a wiki at all.
<StevenK> hedkandi: That's because you're not logged in
<StevenK> hedkandi: You need to be logged in to edit pages.
<hedkandi> oh really? can I use my launchpad id to login?
<StevenK> Sure
<hedkandi> horay. I'll go and investigate that then.
<hedkandi> thanks for the tip.
<ajmitch> heh
<nhandler> kirkland: I just did a quick reboot (it didn't register my last one), and that got it using kvm. It would be nice to add a flag/config option to allow users to specify whether kvm/virtualbox should be used for a certain ISO
<kirkland> nhandler: sure thing
<kirkland> nhandler: i'll add that now
<nhandler> You rock kirkland. I might need to start doing some ISO testing now that I have an easy way to run the ISOs
<kirkland> nhandler: ;-)  thanks man
<kirkland> nhandler: glad to be of help
<kirkland> nhandler: did this remove a barrier of some kind for you?  or just made it easier?
<nhandler> kirkland: It made it easy and fast enough for me to be able to get and run an ISO that I would be up for doing some real ISO testing.
<kirkland> nhandler: great; that's my goal :-)
<kirkland> nhandler: Committed revision 55.
 * nhandler hugs kirkland 
<serialorder> is there a way to easily add ubuntu changelog entries into one from debian?
<FFEMTcJ> Could someone please help me.. I'm trying to fix my second bug and I am running into a problem. I'm running debuild -S and its giving me errors..
<nhandler> What error are you getting FFEMTcJ ?
<FFEMTcJ> nhandler: http://pastebin.com/m7604205a
<nhandler> FFEMTcJ: Do you have cdbs installed?
<FFEMTcJ> i do now..
<FFEMTcJ> lemme give another try
<FFEMTcJ> worked.. thanks nhandler
<nhandler> You are welcome FFEMTcJ
 * ScottK is suspicious the package built on the first try. ...investigates further.
<dtchen_> I keep thinking my build harnesses are good, but upstreams keep getting better at breaking things. This last time it was 32-bit asm to detect VMs. (?!)
<ScottK> Suspicion was justified.
<fabrice_sp> jdong, about bug #475891. what is the actual status? I'm a bit lost
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475891 in eagle "eagle crashes on: zoom into schematic " [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475891
<fabrice_sp> (the fix released stuff is for Debian)
<jdong> fabrice_sp: it's clear for upload.
<jdong> and upon accepting, the archive admin is to copy the package over to lucid.
<jdong> which is why it uses a standard version
<jdong> (like how zsync was handled)
<fabrice_sp> ok: in comment 11. you say that you'd like an archive admin opinion. That's why I was asking
<fabrice_sp> Will have a look then :-)
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<jdong> fabrice_sp: lol the reason is that the proposed fix, as you can see, sounded "strange"
<fabrice_sp> yeah: I saw that :-) (I was processing the merge, and saw also that 'strange' fix in the debian changelog :-) )
<jdong> ack there's already a merge in the pipeline?
<jdong> curse this latency!
<jdong> eeeh
<jdong> *shrug*
<fabrice_sp> yeah... but as it's from Unstable, I was a bit reluctant to process it for the moment
<jdong> ok
<bbigras> hi, I attached debdiffs for bug 476360 and bug 428017 , if anyone's interested
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428017 in kopete-facebook "plugin does not know it is offline" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428017
<ScottK> apachelogger: Please have a look when you have a moment ^^^
<bbigras> thanks
<AnAnt> Hello
<fabrice_sp> Hi AnAnt
<cody-somerville> jdong, that eagle package makes me want to hurl
<jdong> cody-somerville: agree with you
<cody-somerville> The change makes it impossible to fully apt-get remove the damn thing which makes me double hurl
<fabrice_sp> cody-somerville, you're right. anyway, I've been able to reproduce the problem, so I'm waiting for more info to see, so no uplaod for the moment
<fabrice_sp> s/I've/I've not/
<AnAnt> can someone comment on this: LP 475338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475338 in texlive-bin "Sync texlive-bin 2007.dfsg.2-8 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475338
<AnAnt> I need opinion regarding that last comment I put there
<fabrice_sp> AnAnt, you just opened it?
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: nah, it was opened few days ago, and got ack'ed by Daneil
<AnAnt> Daniel
<AnAnt> but I added a comment yesterday that there is a remaining difference (that I overlooked when I filed the sync request), but I see that this difference can also be dropped
<fabrice_sp> I think it's safe to sync, even more if armel works fine with gcc 4.4
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<fabrice_sp> yw :-)
 * fabrice_sp goes back to the sponsorship queue
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: you following the TL2009 development ?
<AnAnt> fabrice_sp: they just uploaded tl2009 to NEW !
<fabrice_sp> tl2009?
<AnAnt> texlive
<AnAnt> it will still remain in experimental for a while though
<fabrice_sp> ohh: I was speaking about the Ubuntu sponsorship queue :-)
<fabrice_sp> so it won't make it for Lucid?
<AnAnt> dunno
<AnAnt> I hope it would
<dholbach> buon giorno!
 * geser yawns a good morning
<fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> maco: mvo and I were talking of writing an edit-patch command which wraps around whatever crazy crack the package uses and just works - there's some initial code and I guess we're going to finish it on the plane tomorrow :)
<dholbach> maco: so hopefully for UDS and lucid we can put it somewhere :)
<ScottK> dholbach: I think that's an excellent plan.
<maco> cool!
<ScottK> One of my concerns about the trend towards quilt is it increases the already steep learning curve for newcomers.
<dholbach> definitely
<dholbach> in any case after UDS we'll put up whatever we have, so we can finish off the rest
<sbeattie> heh, I think it depends on what you know; I'd used and understood quilt for quite a while before I ever touched a debian package; but dpatch just seems utterly unhelpful.
<AnAnt> so after UDS , quilt source packages will be accepted ?
<dholbach> geser, persia, nixternal: we could stage a round of -1s today - it's Friday 13th ;-)
<dholbach> AnAnt: I don't think - it'll take a bit longer to get support into LP for that
<dholbach> AnAnt: but wgrant will know the exact-exact-exact answer
<AnAnt> ok
<nixternal> dholbach: ooh, good one
<wgrant> 2009-12-05 at the latest. It may be before that if Debian increases adoption rapidly.
 * wgrant checks today's count.
<wgrant> Currently sitting at 0.39% of unstable, and the adoption rate has slowed lately.
<AnAnt> wgrant: can you tell me about a small package that uses quilt format ?
<dholbach> quilt?
<wgrant> quilt itself, yes.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<randomaction> is it on by default in Debian already?
<ScottK> It's supported, but not by default in Debian.
<wgrant> I think some of the #ubuntu-devel discussion might have influenced that.
<dholbach> persia: you've been over-eager with the wiki cleanup
<dholbach> persia: Rodney and Scott are still on our list for next time
<dholbach> or whenever
<maco> hahahaha
<persia> dholbach: I just commented them out.  I figured they'd uncomment themselves if they could make the next meeting.
<dholbach> got it
<highvoltage> yay! maco is a MOTU!
<huats> congrats porthose_
<huats> and of course congrats maco
<porthose_> huats, ty :)
 * dholbach hugs maco, porthose_ and diwic
<dholbach> well done :)
 * porthose_ hugs dholbach :)
<hyperair> congrats maco =)
<maco> hyperair: thanks
<maco> thanks huats
<maco> now really...nearly 4am. sleep time!
<\sh> moins
<highvoltage> mouns \sh!
<siretart`> hi \sh, hi highvoltage!
<highvoltage> hey siretart`
 * highvoltage wonders about motu people and funny characters in their names
<\sh> highvoltage\n, this nick is older then ubuntu ;)
<highvoltage\n> \sh: so is mine!
<highvoltage\n> (well not with the newline)
<siretart`> highvoltage\n: that's because at work I use another irc client (rcirc), whereas my irssi runs on my private host in a datacenter
<highvoltage\n> siretart`: aah
<siretart`> btw, rcirc rocks, hard.
<highvoltage> never used it before, what does it do?
<siretart`> \sh: may I assume that the karmic kernel (finally) has a fixed aufs module that works over nfs?
<siretart`> highvoltage: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/rcirc
<\sh> siretart, hmm...regardnig waldemar and thomas: no
<\sh> "See
<\sh> fai-ubuntu-NFSROOT.patch as example. Here we have used unionfs-fuse
<\sh> instead of aufs2. Ubuntu removed the aufs2 binary packages in
<\sh> Karmic."
<siretart`> err, unionfs-fuse? wtf?
<siretart`> hm. as long as it works (better) than the in-kernel alternative.. sounds promising...
<\sh> siretart, thomas is working on incorporating the changes into his fai main tree...he proposed as well, to work on two branches in fai svn..
<\sh> so doing some changes for ubuntu, and moving it slowly into the main branch when debian changes to NWO, too
<siretart`> NWO?
<\sh> New World Order
<siretart`> ah
<\sh> siretart, you are  not a fan of Hulk Hogan, aren't you?
<siretart`> that's about 2 decades ago..
<\sh> siretart`, I'll take it as compliment ;)
<siretart`> *g*
<siretart`> I'm skimming over the patch.. hmm. just having the unionfs-fuse package in the nfsroot is sufficient to activate it? uh?
<siretart`> hm, anyway. won't become urgent for me before next week
<\sh> siretart, setting export UNIONTYPE="aufs" unionfs
<\sh> but it's not in the patches somehow
<\sh> I'll just mailed the fai ml to ask him
<slytherin> ttx: Do you mind if I port libjug-java from Ubuntu to Debian. It is one of the essential build-dep for cruisecontrol.
<ttx> slytherin: not at all, feel free to port any missing library :)
<slytherin> ttx: thanks
<ttx> question: I'm merging a -0ubuntuN with a -1 and the orig.tar.gz from debian is slightly different, what's the recommended solution to that case ? Keep ours and make a note in changelog ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<StevenK> ttx: Yes, keep our .orig, after making sure they really do contain mostly the same contents
<ttx> StevenK: I'm confirming that right now. Thanks !
<slytherin> ttx: StevenK: What would be the version in Ubuntu in this case?
<ttx> slytherin: -1ubuntu1
<ttx> (for the record, unpacked  contents are strictly the same in my case)
<ScottK> ttx: You have to keep the Ubuntu orig.tar.gz because if the md5sum doesn't match, Soyuz will reject the upload.
<ttx> ScottK: I saw that :)
<ScottK> OK
<slytherin> ttx: I guess I will have to do fake sync for jmeter too
<\sh> siretart, you don't need to change the aufs in unionfs...somehow it worked, told waldemar
<ttx> slytherin: you uploaded a different orig.tar.gz between ubuntu and debian ?
<slytherin> ttx: No. But for some reason the size for repackaged upstream tar ball is different on both distributions.
<ttx> ...?
<directhex> slytherin, compression will differ from the tiniest of things
<directhex> i.e. mtime/atime
<slytherin> I don't know what is the reason. May be my get-orig-source taregt is broken.
<directhex> slytherin, is upstream a bzip2? zip?
<ttx> directhex: right, but if he uploaded the same orig.tar.gz to both ubuntu and debian, that would be the same
<slytherin> ttx: In that sense, yes the to tar balls are different.
<directhex> ttx, every call to get-orig-source will produce a new md5sum, unless you account for it in your rule
<slytherin> directhex: tar.gz, but I have to repack it to remove included jar files.
<ttx> directhex: that's why he should only call it once :)
<directhex> slytherin, want a recipe?
<slytherin> directhex: Nope. Next time I am putting packages in Debian first. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, i meant just in case. your enemy is mtime.
<slytherin> directhex: Ok. Tell me.
<siretart`> \sh: interesting...
<directhex> slytherin, http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-cli-libs/packages/mysql-connector-net/trunk/debian/rules
<directhex> slytherin, the key is the --mtime= flag to tar, and the -n flag on gzip
<slytherin> ok
<slytherin> directhex: what should be the value of mtime?
<directhex> slytherin, any hard-coded number. but lintian will bitch if it's not recent enough.
<directhex> try the value from "date -d 2009-11-13 +%s"
<slytherin> ok
<serialorder> highvoltage, I am testing a package I built in a schroot and I get the following error: Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": libcanberra-gtk-module.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<serialorder> the application runs fine otherwise
<serialorder> should I add a depends on canberra-gtk-module ?
<ripps> serialorder: is the canberra part essential, or is it optional?
<serialorder> ripps, i don't know the answer to that question I will try to figure that out, not exactly sure how
<ripps> If it's essential it should be a depends, if not it should be a Recommend or Suggest
<segler> hi, i need an advocate. please have a look at my small python rhythmbox plugin at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser, thanks
<ari-tczew> we have new patch tagging standards?
<highvoltage> nixternal: hey, are you around?
<nixternal> highvoltage: what's up?
<highvoltage> I'll send you a pm
<nixternal> k
<EzraR> what would make a package to startbuilding with clean
<EzraR> fakeroot debian/rules clean is the first and only thing this package does
<EzraR> no build no install etc
<EzraR> they are in the rules file
<EzraR> its like it just skips them
<EzraR> nobody?
<ripps> EzraR: the default action is to run clean first, to make sure the build environment is clean. What's your package and what do have in you rules file?
<EzraR> ripps: im trying to fix a bug in gw6c
<ripps> EzraR: apparently the package attempt to patch the source with dpatch, do you have dpatch installed?
<EzraR> ripps: yes
<EzraR> i guess ill try building without any patches
<EzraR> see if they are the cause...
<ripps> EzraR: sorry my computer froze, did I miss anything?
<EzraR> ripps: i said i had dpatch installed, and that i guess ill try building without the patches to see if they were the problem
<ripps> EzraR: huh... It looks the dpatch.make file is empty... this must be a bug
<EzraR> ripps: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make ?
<EzraR> ripps: mines not
<ripps> EzraR: ah, my dpatch just installed incorrectly, probably due to my pc freezing
<EzraR> so iff i take out all the patch names in 00list that should efectivly not include the patches in a build right?
<ripps> EzraR: well, my gw6c just built completly in pbuilder, so I don't know what's wrong
<ripps> It applied the patches properly too
<ripps> EzraR: how exactly are you building the packages? Are you using pbuilder?
<EzraR> yeah...
<ripps> EzraR: do you get all OK's when you `dpatch apply-all`?
<EzraR> i was looking at debuild output..
<ripps> (remove patches with `dpatch deapply-all`)
<ripps> EzraR: can you pastebin your debuild output?
<EzraR> but if i remove them with that wont they still be applyed during build?
<ripps> EzraR: 00list determines what's to be patched at build time, I'm just trying to determine if there is indeed something wrong with the patches.
<EzraR> http://pastebin.com/d4d0e40b7
<EzraR> os debuild suposed to go through the build targets after clean?
<EzraR> is
<ripps> EzraR: I don't know... it should be working. This wasn't built with pbuilder, It's hard to make sure you have an isolated environment unless your running from pristine environment like pbuilder...
<EzraR> i am building with pbuilder
<EzraR> you asked for my debuild output
<hyperair> it's the same.
<ripps> EzraR: sorry, pbuilder runs debuild too.
<hyperair> debuild calls dpkg-buildpackage. pbuilder calls dpkg-source which calls dpkg-buildpackage
<hyperair> no, i don't think pbuilder runs debuild
<ripps> hyperair: your right, it runs dpkg-buildpackage within an isolated environment
<EzraR> i was under the impression you used debuild and then built in pbuilder using the .dsc from debuild
<hyperair> debuild calls dpkg-buildpackage under almost all circumstances
<hyperair> exceptions being errors
<hyperair> e.g. unsatisfied build deps
<ripps> EzraR: no, you shouldn't need to ever install any -dev packages, just setup a package, and just run `pdebuild` and it will automatically import the source and the debian/ packaging into pbuilder to build it for you.
<EzraR> does it make a diff if i use dbuild -S
<hyperair> debuild -S creates dscs, debuild -b builds binaries (i think dscs are also created, but not sure)
<ripps> EzraR: you should only create dsc's when your sure that the package will actually build correctly. pbuilder is meant for testing before you upload to a ppa or repository. Also, pbuilder will output in successfully built packages into /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
<EzraR> well i took out all the patches from 00list and built it and still get the bug, so I can safely say it has nothing to do with the patches right?
<ripps> EzraR: you need the include the patches, otherwise the package doesn't build
<EzraR> i left the include dpatch.make, i just took out all patches from 00list
<ripps> EzraR: I'm saying that was unnecessary
<EzraR> ripps: unnecessary?
<ripps> Every time I run pdebuild, full 00list and empty 00list, I still had pbuilder build successfully...
<EzraR> ripps: the bug im trying to fix is not if it builds or not :)
<ripps> EzraR: what exactly is the bug?
<EzraR> ripps: i was confused earlier and was thinking debuild -S should go through the build targets of the rules file...
<EzraR> ripps: the bug is it doesnt install a gw6c.conf into /etc/gw6c or anywhere for that matter
<EzraR> ripps: sounds like a real easy fix right :)
<ripps> EzraR: okay... let me look around the rules files a bit...
<EzraR> look in tspc-advanced/Makefile
<ripps> EzraR: I understand the problem, it's suppose install a conf in /etc, but isn't. The easist solution would be copy the sample conf in the correct directory at build time...
<EzraR> ripp: i tried that but failed
<EzraR> ripps: tspc-advanced/conf/Makefile is where the sample conf is generated
<ripps> EzraR: yeah, it might be as simple as copying that conf.sample into debian/tmp/etc/gw6c/gw6c.conf
<EzraR> at line 38 in
<EzraR>  tspc-advanced/conf/Makefile i added a cp line but it came out wrong
<EzraR> it didnt get the output from the sed cmd
<EzraR> that was the first thing I tried when fixing this
<ripps> EzraR: I'm testing some ideas, I'll let you know if any pan out
<ripps> EzraR: Okay, I think I figured it out, just add `
<ripps> `cp tspc-advanced/conf/gw6c.conf.sample debian/gw6c/etc/gw6c/gw6c.conf` to the end of install: section
<ripps> in your debian/rules
<EzraR> ripps: ok ill test it out
<EzraR> ripps: did you notice the spelling error in that section
<EzraR> :)
<EzraR> [#ubuntu-motu]
<EzraR> platofmr
<ripps> EzraR: yeah, but it seems to work with it anyway, so why bother it
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, about bug 477798. Did you checked why the package was not yet in testing, after 27 days?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477798 in slim "Please merge slim 1.3.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477798
 * ripps is going to take a shower
<EzraR> ripps: what does debian/rules:63: *** missing separator.  Stop. mean
<EzraR> ripps: what seeparator
<StevenK> EzraR: That usually means you have a command in it that doesn't start with tab
<EzraR> ScottK: thnx
<ripps> what ScottK sayid
 * StevenK notes he isn't ScottK 
<EzraR> ripps: go take a shower you stink :)
<EzraR> StevenK: lol im sorry
<EzraR> StevenK: the brain reads words at a time
<maco> S<abunchaletters>K ?
<StevenK> maco: And you get it to too with mako's similarity
<maco> StevenK: actually, never on irc
<highvoltage> maco! congrats on becomming a motu!
<maco> highvoltage: thanks
<maco> wait i lied
<fabrice_sp> Hey maco: congrats!
<maco> paul flint thought i was mako. "no no the dc one"
<maco> fabrice_sp: thanks
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: no
<fabrice_sp> it seems to be an ugly priviledge escalation that was not there before, so I would prefer to wait until it get fixed, to avoid merging 2 times
<fabrice_sp> we are still early in the cycle
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/slim/news/20090817T163923Z.html
<fabrice_sp> except if someone else say the contrary
<ari-tczew> removed because no exist in unstable?
<fabrice_sp> no: have a look there: http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=slim
<fabrice_sp> (you can go there from bts package page)
<fabrice_sp> new bugs introduced by this version
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: 1.3.0-2 is also affected
<ari-tczew> slim has been removed from karmic because it was buggy, unmaintained, but now is new maintainer
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, strange. a comment seems to say the contrary: The bug was cloned from the package applying to the Sid version, but in the end doesn't apply to the package version in Lenny.
<fabrice_sp> right: it's not in karmic
<ari-tczew> an other comment seems to say that it is like as a new feature
<fabrice_sp> so if it's not even present in Karmic, and new maintainer, I would say: wait until it enters testing
<randomaction> ah, it makes sense
<fabrice_sp> yeah: it's not very clear :-/
<ari-tczew> when it will enter testing?
 * fabrice_sp forgot to upload  the .orig tarball of tesseract :-/
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, when this bug report will be closes, as the other one is already closed
<ari-tczew> ehh
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: are you bored? I have next bug for you :P
<fabrice_sp> still sponsoring and building at the same time
<fabrice_sp> not bored at all!
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> just give the bug number ;-)
<ari-tczew> that's beautiful co-operation with sponsors! :)
<ari-tczew> give me a moment
<ari-tczew> I need to just report ;d
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> no comment :-P
<ari-tczew> bug #482278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482278 in ffproxy "Sync ffproxy 1.6-6 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482278
 * fabrice_sp checking
<ari-tczew> ;-)
<fabrice_sp> Now that I'm MOTU, I upload a lot less packages by myself than before! :-D
<ari-tczew> Fabrice: please, don't fall in narcissism :P
<fabrice_sp> Ack'd
<fabrice_sp> (ffproxy, I mean)
<ari-tczew> thanks brother :D
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: do you no need waiting for ubuntu archives admins?
<ari-tczew> for synces
<fabrice_sp> Just trying to keep the sponsoring queue as small as possible (and it's not easy because of you, guys! :-) )
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, yes: motu can't do the sync, just ack it
<ari-tczew> yhym
<fabrice_sp> diner time: bbl
<ari-tczew> bye
<jdong> fabrice_sp: heh wrt bug 475891 I don't really have an opinion anymore :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475891 in eagle "eagle crashes on: zoom into schematic " [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475891
<EzraR> fabrice_sp: did you speak to the deb maintainer about using the patch on solfege, or are you asuming from the dialog on the deb bug report?
<EzraR> fabrice_sp: that he would be willing to use it
<EzraR> anyone good with perl?
<EzraR> or at least some idea
<EzraR> heh
<ari-tczew> ~ubuntu-archive has got a lot of work :P
<StevenK> Well else is new ...
<ari-tczew> good luck :P
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> why do most (if not all) upstream not use -Wl,--needed in LDFLAGS ?
<bmhm> hi all
<bmhm> I'm almost positive that there is a missing dependency or at least recommendation
<bmhm> the tagger "picard" by musicbrainz does not support PUIDs on ubuntu (i.e. audio-fingerprints)
<bmhm> can someone verify that for me please?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: let's go! bug #482295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482295 in file-browser-applet "Sync file-browser-applet 0.6.4-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482295
<fabrice_sp> jdong, do you think that if it's only on upgrade, it's worth a SRU?
<fabrice_sp> EzraR, IIRC, that's what I saw in the debian bug report
<jdong> fabrice_sp: what is the SRU? Same fix as above? Why does it work? Why does it only happen on upgrades?
<fabrice_sp> jdong, yes: the ugly 'copy the binary to $HOME/.eagle' fix
<fabrice_sp> no idea why it fails for upgrade only (new install don't have that file in home)
<jdong> and by "fresh install" in the bug comment, you mean wipe the entire system and then install, right?
<fabrice_sp> no :-D
<jdong> not apt-get remove {{--purge}} and reinstall, right?
<jdong> what?
<jdong> now this is making less sense
<fabrice_sp> I think it's apt-get purge / install
<jdong> ok
<fabrice_sp> I wasn't able to reproduce the problem
<jdong> based on this information... what I lack right now is a coherent explanation of why this bug occurs
<jdong> and I'm much more reluctant about the SRU's proposed fix
<fabrice_sp> jdong, exactly. And Debian didn't really gave an explanation about that
<jdong> right
<jdong> other than "the debian dev that did it is really awesome"
<jdong> which I would accept if the package didn't just go to the orphanage
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> ohh
<fabrice_sp> really?
<jdong> apparently it's up for adoption, according to the bug comments
<jdong> and given those circumstances I am not 100% sure the bugfix was really all that well tested / thought through on the Debian side
<jdong> but given that eagle is not exactly telepathy or Xorg in urgency
<jdong> I'd say let's  try to come up with a more satisfactory explanation of why it's broken
<jdong> before attempting to shove through silly one-liner hacks when we still don't agree what the symptoms are yet :)
<jdong> eventually once we understand the problem enough to make a fix,  I would be interestd in a SRU for it
<fabrice_sp> makes sens
<fabrice_sp> e
<jdong> yeah feel free to paraphrase this onto the bug report
<fabrice_sp> sure :-)
<jdong> Scott Howard seems to be quite interested in the bug and making good progress on it
<jdong> I'm sure the resolution won't be far from today
<fabrice_sp> yes
<AnAnt> hmmm, how can I run autogen without making it run configure
<bmhm> has anyone read my request?
<ripps> bmhm: scan in my picard works fine
<bmhm> ripps: not talking about scanning
<bmhm> I meant generating and sending PUIDs
<leonel> hello :
<leonel> Somedays ago I've submited a diff for squirrelmail, was something wrong with it ?   bug 446838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<fabrice_sp> leonel, it seems ok. Waiting for a security team ack
<Matthias_M> How do I port http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gchempaint 0.10 to karmic/ppa or lucid (it is still 0.8); where do I start. I can't find the correct manual. I am a total newbie.
<Matthias_M> still wondering why the auto-sync failed
<randomaction> Matthias_M: see bug 233963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 233963 in gnome-chemistry-utils "Please merge gnome-chemistry-utils 0.10.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/233963
<randomaction> I tried to merge it but there was a problem I couldn't fix
<Matthias_M> can I help somehow?
<randomaction> sure, you could prepare a merge of 0.10.8
<randomaction> !merge
<ubottu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Matthias_M> thanks
<leonel> fabrice_sp_: thanks
<fabrice_sp_> leonel, just be patient :-) The security team has a lot of bugs (as you can imagine :-D)
<leonel> fabrice_sp_: that's what I was thinking since this diff i've submited just before karmic release
<mdeslaur> leonel: let me take a look
<jdstrand> leonel, fabrice_sp_: the bug doesn't follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Submission
<jdstrand> that is why it wasn't picked up
<fabrice_sp_> oh, missed that. you're right
<jdstrand> we have scripts to help us identify sponsored security updates
<fabrice_sp_> I'm not used to this 'In progress' state
<fabrice_sp_> sorry about that
<jdstrand> not a problem
<jdstrand> sorry we didn't notice it sooner
<mdeslaur> leonel: I'll take a look at the patches, thanks!
<leonel> mdeslaur: thanks  ,
<leonel> that  process was new to me ..
<mdeslaur> leonel: np...it'll take me a couple of days to review it...it's a _big_ patch :)
<leonel> mdeslaur: it is
<mdeslaur> thanks leonel!
<leonel> mdeslaur: and squirrelmail does not uses  a patch system
<Matthias_M> do I have to change /usr/lib/iceape/ to /usr/lib/firefox for the Ubuntu package?
<Matthias_M> I mean iceweasel
<DBO> are there any Makefile autoconf experts that could help our project get building with make distcheck
<DBO> I really want to roll a release tarball, but I just cant make it work
<maco> i'm logged into lp. i want to join ~ubuntu-universe-sponsors. the "join" button appears to be invisible, however. any idea how to join it?
<StevenK> maco: It's a Restricted Team, you need to be invite
<StevenK> *invited
<maco> oh
<maco> so thats what that means
<maco> the little "?" icon next to "restricted team" doesnt seem to do anything
<StevenK> Yeah, I just noticed that too. :-)
<StevenK> maco: Prod one of the admins to invite you
<ajmitch> which looks to be one of persia or TheMuso
<ajmitch> hopefully one of them is in the right timezone & online :)
<maco> well im pretty sure its like 3am in japan
<StevenK> ah
<StevenK> *Nah
<StevenK> 5:47am or so
<maco> ok so still an unreasonable time for persia to be awak
<maco> e
<ajmitch> and they may be near UDS
<StevenK> TheMuso is probably not going to join IRC before he flies out
<ajmitch> I thought he probably would have left by now
 * maco crosses fingers that he found chocolate
<ajmitch> heh
<maco> (there's an aussie company that makes non-dairy white chocolate, not available in the US)
<ajmitch> and so you're coercing people to bring it in for you?
<maco> yes
<maco> im told by a non-dairy friend whose sister is in oz that it can be carried by visitors, but customs gets upset if you try to have it shipped in
<maco> (said friend is how i learned of its existence)
<ajmitch> you'll find out soon enough if TheMuso is detained at customs :)
<StevenK> Haha
<ScottK> Depending on how closely he's 'inspected', you may owe him big time.
<maco> no no its fine to carry in the chocolate!
<maco> her sister does when she visits
<maco> its just some sort of "zomg importing goods! tariffs! eek!" thing when you try to buy a bunch of chocolate from au
<serialorder> not sure if this is the right place but the package i am merging is built and installed in my schroot and when i start it to test it I get a warning saying that I am missing a library. It runs fine otherwise. I was told I should track down where that library is being called from
<serialorder> any tips on how i might approach that?
<maco> ldd?
<ScottK> I'm reminded of a story that was current in Ireland when I lived there in the mid-80s.  At the time 'family planning devices' were only available with a perscription.  You were allowed to bring such items in from outside the country for personal use only.  The story was a man was caught with a suitecased full, which he pleaded were for personal use, so they arrested him for attempted suicide.
<ScottK> No idea if it's actually true.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-14
<EzraR> if an app is set up to run on diff OS's is it acceptable to break that functionality in the package to fix a bug? (Ubuntu is linux only)
<EzraR> well actually its already broke
<EzraR> i would just make it actually work for linux
<EzraR> without fixing the larger bug
<ScottK> EzraR: Yes.
<ScottK> Bonus points for working in BSD land since Ubuntu has one downstream that uses that.
<EzraR> it has diff configs for free,net, and open which would be best suited for that
<EzraR> nm, im guessing free
<wgrant> ScottK: We have a BSD downstream?
<ScottK> wgrant: Nexunta or something like that?
<wgrant> ScottK: That's OpenSolaris.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> EzraR: Nevermind
<ScottK> That's what I get trying to remember stuff when I have flu.
<FFEMTcJ> Could someone test my patch for Bug #481677 please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481677 in ubuntu-docs "Server Doc 9.10: Disable Control-Alt-Delete is out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481677
<FFEMTcJ> I'm new at this, so would like some feedback if anyone has any.
<lfaraone> How are sync requests scheduled? I see a NEW (to ubuntu) package in testing that I need synced to Lucid before I can do a sync request of a package with local changes.
<ScottK> lfaraone: Just wait a bit.
<lfaraone> ScottK: mk.
<master> hello
<master> umm
<master> i would like to know
<master> how to develop for ubuntu
<master> i do C java and C++ and the likes
<maco> master: hi :)
<maco> i suppose you could have a look at the bugtracker.  the ones marked "triaged" are the ones that should have enough info for you to fix them, but you may want to start with triaged ones tagged "bitesize" to work your way up the tough ones if you're not too experienced yet
<maco> note also that we're having the developer summit next week. you can listen in to streams of it and participate over irc...or at least just get a feel for how decisions happen around here and what new stuff is coming
<maco> at some point, you'll probably want to learn to package up your patches. for that, i think daniel holbach's videos on youtube are fantastic
<maco> master: is that the sort of info you were looking for?
<maco> master: this is a good place to start https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<jmarsden> master: For MOTU-related stuff you can also start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted .  At some point reading the Packaging Guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete would also be good :)
 * maco should get around to learning C++
<maco> wow i dont think i ever actually read the wiki page i linked O_o
<jmarsden> maco: Well, you became a MOTU without it, so you can't have missed *that* much :)
<maco> jmarsden: i missed the bit about linking to "how to package without debhelper"
<maco> also the sponsorship page? i apparently requested sponsorship rather wrong rather often. didnt know you were supposed to assign to nobody
<master> k
<master> but
<master> im not sure how to go about making the patch
<maco> ah ok
<maco> have you ever used the diff command?
<maco> hmm wait lets back up
<maco> ok first, you find out what package contains whatever bug you want to fix. if its one on launchpad, youre good. if one you found "dpkg -S <program>" replacing <program> with the command that runs the program you found the bug in
<maco> then you get that package in source form: apt-get source <package>
<maco> then itll unpack a directory of source code for you
<maco> i would then run: cp -lr original_source/ modified_source/ (replace original_source with the directory name)
<maco> cd into modified_source/ and make whatever edits are necessary to fix the bug
<maco> then run: diff -rU original_source/ modified_source/ > fixstuff.patch
<maco> there's your patch!
<maco> you can also make a debdiff, but there are directions elsewhere for that. a patch is good enough to attach to a bug report and have someone do something with it. if you want to know how to make a debdiff see daniel holbach & james westby's ubuntu open week session logs from a couple weeks ago
<maco> master: does that help?
<master> thanks so much maco
<maco> no problem :)
<master> what is the usual language the sources are in?
<maco> most of GNOME is C, most of KDE is C++, both have a lot of Python programs as well
<maco> ive yet to use my Java in FOSS
<maco> underlying system stuff is usually C as well
<master> k
<master> cos i dont do python
<maco> neither do i
<maco> i just do C or Java
<JanC> you can learn basic Python in less than 1 day  ;)
<master> mm
<master> ok
<maco> yeah...ive done a couple of patches in python without knowing python
<maco> it looks like pseudocode, but it happens to run
<JanC> contrary to C++, you need about 10 years to learn basic C++  ;)
<maco> haha...i need to get around to that
<maco> only knowing how to code for the DE i dont use anymore is a little ick
<JanC> even the inventor of C++ admits he doesn't understand C++, so...
<maco> bjarne?
<JanC> yeah  âº
<maco> ...he didnt say anything bad about c++ when he got up to speak about it
<JanC> well, he wrote it in the book I have; actually he said he doesn't understand all the corner cases of C++
<JanC> and AFAIK nobody does (there are no 2 C++ compilers that interpret it alike)
<maco> hpux's c++ compiler will quote page & line numbers at you when you screw up
<maco> of the C++ specification
<JanC> which is why most projects agree to use only a subset of C++  ;)
<maco> moz devs learned quickly that if it fails to compile on hpux, the hpux compiler is right
<JanC> there are valid C++ constructs that can have 2 meanings according to the spec, no way a compiler can decide what's right  ;)
<jdong> too bad the C++ specifications are non-free ;-)
<jdong> in a quite literal financial sense of the term.
<maco> jdong: thats rather sucky
<jdong> indeed
<JanC> jdong: well, the drafts that get approved are free most of the time
<jdong> I needed it the other day to help a friend make a pedantic point on homework.
<jdong> i.e. declaring an int main without explicitly returning.
<master> open office is programmed in java rite?
<jdong> no
<jdong> it's primarily programmed in C++
<JanC> no, most of OO.o is C++, with some parts in Java
<master> o
<master> ok
<jdong> multimedia portions are in Java
<master> 00.o???
<jdong> but are "optional" ish.
<JanC> e.g. the database is in Java IIRC
<jdong> master: upstream insists that it's called OpenOffice.org
<jdong> and never shortened in any other manner.
<master> o
<master> kk
<JanC> jdong: OpenOffice is a company in the Netherlands that is way older than OO.o  ;)
<jdong> :)
<JanC> they actually distribute StarOffice and now OpenOffice.org
<JanC> and help promote it
<JanC> they do the whole "open office" stuff, including operating systems on server & desktop, applications, etc.
 * jdong nods
<JanC> they even promote Ubuntu  âº
<master> anyone here knows how to do OS programming
 * maco looks at jdong 
<maco> im not done with OS class yet
<maco> but jdong knows everything about everything
<jdong> jdong has currently enteredCriticalSection....
<jdong> err that didn't sound right.
<maco> hahahaha
<jdong> I meant to express jdong is busy right now with WORK and not interruptible.
<maco> critical section works...
<Flannel> master: "OS Programming" could be a lot of things.  What are you trying to do?
<master> lol
<RAOF> OS programming: working out why grub2 sticks an invalid vg entry in its list of lvs, causing it to segfault.
<DBO> RAOF, halp, Docky needs you
<RAOF> DBO: Trade you a working grub for help on Docky? :)
<DBO> mmmm, I suggest LILO, its the bestest
<RAOF> Won't boot from lvm
<RAOF> IIRC
<jdong> it's called a /boot partition.
<jdong> *ducks*
 * DBO was being sarcastic
<dtchen_> lilo does boot from lvms.
<dtchen_> granted, I don't recall if it was a *SUSE setup
<dtchen_> maco: eh, I'm quite certain I've bopped you over the noggin with "don't assign unless explicitly granted permission"
<maco> dtchen_: yeah i know *that*
<dtchen_> OTOH, you do have an amazing ability to tune out everything I say
<maco> i mean i didnt know you were supposed to unassign after you attach your debdiff and before you subscribe sponsors
<dtchen_> in all honesty, sure, you're supposed to, but if your sponsor can't be arsed to do that herself/himself, then...
<fabrice_sp> dtchen_, grub2 also boot from lvms
<dtchen_> fabrice_sp: yes. I'd be rather up a creek if it didn't.
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<LucidFox> I should say, Karmic is the first time I found the default desktop theme actually enjoyable.
<m4rtin> hi, I've written a couple of patches for bugs in bash-completion and attached them to the relevant bugs; could someone give me information on what I do next? This is my first delve and I'm not sure what the "sponsor queue" is etc.
<randomaction> m4rtin: have you created debdiffs?
<m4rtin> randomaction: yes, I have uploaded the debdiff as an attachment on the bug and tested the fix using dpkg. Just read the Sponsoring process and gathered I am now supposed to subscribe the sponsors, so just did that. Was that correct?
<randomaction> yes
<randomaction> and set status to Confirmed
<m4rtin> yep, status Confirmed, assigned-to: Unassigned
<randomaction> if it's a regular bug (i.e. not security or SRU)
<m4rtin> yeah, just regular - thank you :)
<m4rtin> presumably it will then show up in the sponsor queue listed above (delayed?)
<randomaction> yes it will
<randomaction> m4rtin: is it bug 435055?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435055 in bash-completion "Bash completion for wget -o doesn't escape spaces." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435055
<m4rtin> yes
<m4rtin> (don't laugh! I appreciate it's a tiny bug, but I thought a small fix for a first attempt at submitting would be preferable)
<randomaction> I'm not a MOTU but I think I can give you some hints
<randomaction> so that your debdiff looks better
<randomaction> the syntax for closing a bug in changelog is LP: 435055
<randomaction> sorry, LP: #435055
<randomaction> and the target in changelog should be lucid, not karmic
<m4rtin> ah ok, let me fix that. Presumably I should change control and changelog and then re-"debuild"
<randomaction> yes, or for such small changes you can hand-edit your debdiff
<randomaction> and this package uses a patch system (quilt)
<m4rtin> ah ok, thanks - my other question was, do you have any tips for this kind of situation: say I fix a bug and then want to work on another in the same package, the debdiff must be against the current source I assume, so installing will re-introduce the existing bugs I have fixed... any recommendations?
<m4rtin> oh, does that (quilt) mean that I have missed something?
<randomaction> you should format your change as a patch contained in debian/patches
<randomaction> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<m4rtin> damn. ok - let me go have a read
<m4rtin> so, if I understand correctly, I should 1.) make my changes 2.) push a new patch 3.) create a quilt README 4.) quilt refresh 5.) pop the patch
<m4rtin> no, I assume 1 and 2 were the wrong way around
<randomaction> you run: 1) quilt push -a (applies all patches) 2) quilt new <patchname> 3) quilt add <filename> 4) <make a change> 5) quilt refresh
<randomaction> <filename> would be bash_completion in your case
<m4rtin> ok - I'll redo the patch and attach it. Thanks for the help and apologies for my ignorance
<randomaction> and 0) export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
<randomaction> and dch (before or after, as you wish)
<m4rtin> dch should be at step 4? or is this irrelevant?
<m4rtin> (and do I need to submit a debdiff as well as the quilt diff?)
<randomaction> additions to debian/changelog don't go into quilt patch
<m4rtin> ah ok, so it doesn't matter when that is done
<randomaction> generally, patch systems are used to track changes outside of debian/
<randomaction> yes
<m4rtin> and, therefore, I assume a debdiff is also used
<randomaction> and quilt patch will make it into debdiff
<m4rtin> oh ok great :)
<m4rtin> actually, presumably the quilt patch system also deals with my problem of multiple changes, because I just push another change (provided there are no changes to the same file)
<randomaction> if can fix several bugs in one upload (one debdiff)
<randomaction> *you can
<m4rtin> I think, as this is my first attempt, I'll stick to just fixing one very simple bug and learn to get it right
<m4rtin> randomaction: do I need to do a quilt add README? PackakingGuide suggests so, but your instructions didn't
<randomaction> it's required by Debian policy, so Debian maintainer of the package should do it at some point
<m4rtin> but I should not?
<randomaction> this qualifies as a general cleanup, so shouldn't be done in a bugfix
<m4rtin> ok, thank you
<randomaction> the difference between Debian and Ubuntu should be kept minimal for ease of maintenance
<m4rtin> right, I've done my quilt refresh
<m4rtin> do I then need to pop the patch?
<randomaction> debuild will do it
<m4rtin> oh ok, so now I just go through the same debuild process as usual?
<randomaction> do you have a new patch created in debian/patches?
<randomaction> and its name in debian/patches/series?
<m4rtin> yep
<randomaction> you should be ok to debuild then
<m4rtin> great - I'll give it a shot
<m4rtin> and it's up there
<diwic> What is the reasoning behind disabling apport for a final release?
<ari-tczew> sponsors, can someone take a look on bug #413657 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 413657 in ubuntu "Please sync tor 0.2.1.19-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413657
<dtchen_> ari-tczew: you have e-mail WRT coccinelle.
<dtchen_> diwic: no real need to flood LP
<DktrKranz> whois Laney Laney
<dtchen_> idle time, eh?
<DktrKranz> damn... well, Laney, I will point you to a mail I've just sent to debian-legal wrt pidgin-facebookchat
<DktrKranz> yup :)
<diwic> dtchen_: but is it really necessary? LP has duplicate detection, and it would be useful to catch bugs in the stable distribution.
<dtchen_> diwic: I'm not one to debate this particular policy :-)
<iulian> DktrKranz: jpds is the maintainer of pidgin-facebookchat in Debian.
<dtchen_> bddebian: hiya, any ETA for libsdl1.2_1.2.14 in Debian? Any way I can assist?
<DktrKranz> iulian: err... indeed :)
<DktrKranz> anyway, jpds and iulian: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2009/11/msg00029.html
<iulian> DktrKranz: Yea, I've read the mail.
<iulian> Thanks.
<bddebian> dtchen_: I know they asked upstream to add pkg-config files but other than that no, I don't know yet :(
<DktrKranz> I'm not sure if it's your case, but if it is, thee could be legal troubles
<iulian> DktrKranz: Indeed.
<dtchen_> bddebian: ok. 1.2.14 is blocking a buttload of audio bugs for me, but that's not such a big issue; I'd just rather not spend cycles backporting to 1.2.13. Thanks!
<chrisccoulson> diwic - apport is disabled in the stable distribution mainly because the bugs that users will report are all duplicates of the bugs we already know about from testing
<chrisccoulson> in that case, all it does is annoy users and spam people subscribed to those bug reports
<chrisccoulson> s/all/mostly
<diwic> chrisccoulson: I thought LP automatically duplicated those with the existing ones
<dtchen_> that would be part of the spam :-)
<chrisccoulson> indeed, dtchen is right
<chrisccoulson> apport is just not very useful in a stable distribution, when users are just going to report bugs that we already know exist
<bddebian> dtchen_: Understood.  Let me see if I can push the issue.
<dtchen_> bddebian: no sweat, seriously. I have so many other bugs. :-)
<bddebian> Don't we all? :)
<dtchen_> nah, I could use a few more. :-)
<bddebian> I have a couple I could give you :)
<dtchen_> I'm not saying bitrot is a good thing :-)
<maco> wow this channel looks happy today
<dtchen_> I think there's a coccinelle upload in your future, maco.
<maco> ok
<dtchen_> (http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/upload_queue/)
<maco> my keys are on laptop. think its ok to get it out?
<diwic> chrisccoulson: I don't really agree, but at least I get the reasoning.
<dtchen_> maco: (eh, you're ircing from class; I think you know the answer to that question)
<maco> dtchen_ ...no?
<Hobbsee> maco: look into debsign -r if you haven't already
<StevenK> That assumes that her laptop or other machine with keys are network accessible
<Hobbsee> true
<maco> Hobbseeok
<Hobbsee> but if they weren't accessible, then why would she be asking if it was ok to get them out?  ;)
<maco> StevenK yeah i can get on the school vpn :)
<maco> booo @ freenode java applet. it doesnt put a space after tab-completing names
 * StevenK didn't know Freenode had one of those
<maco> http://java.freenode.net/
<maco> they added it when they banned mibbit
<StevenK> Ahhh
<jdong> they....
<jdong> replaced an AJAX applet with a Java applet?
<ari-tczew> qa.ubuntuwire.com isn't work :-(
<maco> jdong they figured they could control the java applet better than they could abuses of mibbit
<jdong> lol
<jdong> if they switch it to Macromedia Shockwave they'd have no abuses!
 * maco headdesk
<StevenK> jdong: Or users
<jdong> that's the whole point :)
<jdong> or switch it to silverlight and only directhex will be on IRC.
<jdong> *DUCKS* ;-)
<bbigras> bug 476360 and bug 428017 has a fix uploaded to karmic-proposed. It's waiting for a MOTU SRU ACK. If someone has time. the first bug fix make the plugin work again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428017 in kopete-facebook "plugin does not know it is offline" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428017
<ScottK> jdong: ^^^
<chrisccoulson> diwic - why don't you agree? what do you think would be the benefit for enabling it by default?
<dtchen_> just missed him, apparently :/
<bbigras> ScottK: thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, just noticed that. thanks
<ari-tczew> any sponsor bored here? :P bug #482663
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482663 in incron "Merge incron 0.5.9-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482663
<dtchen_> maco: *cough* s/karmic/lucid/ !
<maco> dtchen_: yeah yeah just did that
<maco> i noticed quick and poked Hobbsee
<dtchen_> maco: danke
<Hobbsee> yay for soyuz auto-rejecting it
<maco> :( i screwed up already
<dtchen_> that's hardly a screw-up
<dtchen_> just don't break the toolchain like I did :-)
<jdong> bbigras: both diffs look good to me
<jdong> ScottK: am I blind, or is there no kopete-facebook in the queue/
<jdong> (I hope those were uploaded against karmic-proposed, versioned properly)
<maco> dtchen_: O_o
<ScottK> jdong: It's not uploaded yet, but I think there's a debdiff in the bug
<ScottK> Riddell said he was waiting on a ack to upload
<jdong> hmmph two separate bugs
<jdong> should we make one new SRU bug to encampass both diffs?
<jdong> bbigras: ok I gave you an ACK on bug 476360 to proceed with karmic-proposed SRU'ing of both patches
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360
<jdong> I see Riddell already uploaded them to Lucid as one, so the same will work for karmic-proposed...
<bbigras> jdong: ok thanks, is there documentation about how and where to upload it?
<jdong> ScottK: can you help bbigras through the rest of the process? I gotta head out for a meeting right now
<ScottK> jdong and bbigras: Not right now, as I'm heading out too, but we'll get it taken care of.
<bbigras> ScottK: ok thanks. I'll ping Riddell to see if he has time
<ari-tczew> ScottK: when ubuntu-archive will sync packages?
<geser> ari-tczew: usually the archive admin of the day processes them, but with uds next week I don't expect to see them processed before the week after uds
<ari-tczew> OK
<goshawk> how do i modify a patch which have been created with quilt?
<DrKranz> quilt push patchname; edit files; quilt refresh; quilt pop -a
<geser> apply the patch with quilt, edit the files you need to modify (don't forget to add them, if they aren't already touched by that patch), "quilt refresh"
<goshawk> sorry, very bad connection
<goshawk> DrKranz: where should i run quilt push? in the root of the package or in debian dir?
<DrKranz_> in package root, you probably have to export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches beforehand
<goshawk> yes
<goshawk> it works now
<goshawk> ;)
<serialorder> anyone know a way I can convert diff in RCS format to unified format?
<DrKranz_> jdong: time to put your motu-sru hat on for bug #433924 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433924 in drpython "[Karmic] DrPython misconfiguration (cannot find /usr/share/pyshared/drpython)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433924
<ari-tczew> how often https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is updating?
<jpds> ari-tczew: /topic #ubuntu-devel: MoM up to date as of Monday 4am, but now stalled
<ScottK> jdong: Looking for an ack for Bug 384929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384929 in easytag "Manual search via CDDB is broken" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384929
<maco> jdong: while youre at it bug 317366 needs an sru ack
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317366 in rxvt-unicode "urxvt menu hangs urxvt with x input frozen" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317366
<jdong> ok ok jdong just returned from 2 hours to himself
<jdong> let him catch up and caffeinate first!
<maco> jdong talks about jdong in the 3rd person?
<jdong> for now he does
<jdong> ScottK: 384929 acked.
<ScottK> jdong: Thanks.
<ScottK> Meh.  Too late (you added your comment)
<jdong> and debdiff on 317366 is acked.
<jdong> nov 5th... wonder why that never made it to my LP bugmail
<jdong> oh. 15 minutes ago
<jdong> must've been recently subscribed
<maco> jdong: thanks
<jdong> welcome :)
<maco> jdong: that bug has tasks open for karmic and jaunty. is ack for both?
<jdong> maco: I only saw a debdiff for Karmic, but a similar debdiff at jaunty would be covered under the ACK too :)
<maco> jdong: okiedoo
<serialorder> how would you list multiple lp bugs in a  changelog would (LP: #nnnn, nnnn2, nnnn3) work?
<maco> i think you need to include LP: each time
<jdong> that's correct.
<serialorder> so it would be (LP: #nnnn, LP: #nnnn2, LP: #nnnn3)
<jdong> correct
<serialorder> ok thanks
<maco> jdong: ergh...jaunty and karmic are both 9.06-1 so karmic's gettin -1ubuntu0.1, but what would jaunty get? O_o
<jdong> ugh I hate this game.
<maco> lucid got -2ubuntu1
<jdong> well we've got a couple options here....
<jdong> we could play the game the security team plays with Firefox releases
<geser> 9.06-1ubuntu0.1.9.04 and 9.06-1ubuntu0.1.9.10 or something like that
<jdong> i.e. 1ubuntu0.9.04.0
<jdong> i.e. 1ubuntu0.9.04.1
<jdong> or we can play geser's game :)
<kees> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update%20the%20packaging
<kees> when you have colliding versions, the best way to handle it is the ubuntu0.MM.mm.1 style
<jdong> cool.
<jdong> kees wins because he has a wiki citation!
<kees> heh.  not sure if that counts, since I wrote it.  ;)
<jdong> hahaha :)
<jdong> well if I could make stuff up on the SRU wiki page I would too ;-)
<kees> hehe
<maco> 9.06-1ubuntu0.9.10.1) karmic-proposed; and
<geser> jdong: quick write two wiki pages to trump kees' one wiki page :)
<maco> (9.06-1ubuntu0.9.04.1) jaunty-proposed; ?
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> maco: reasonable to me.
 * jdong would eventually like to see backports use numeric suffixes too
<jdong> since not very far from now we are gonna run out of ascending letters
<maco> ok now what about the part where i realized jaunty was the same version *after* uploading karmic's?
<ScottK> maco: You want 1ubuntu0.09.04.1
<ScottK> (the missing leading 0 is important)
<jdong> maco: that part, you've got ScottK with the big red button.
<maco> ScottK: oh god. 2010 is coming.
<ScottK> Yep.  2012 too
<maco> haha
<maco> UGLY version strings
<dtchen_> no, ugly would be Qt.
<dtchen_> I think I've done a few myself.
<maco> ScottK: can you hit that button?
<EzraR> people should only change packages with patches and link the patch to the changelog entry
<EzraR> that would make life easy
<kklimonda> maco: it's not that ugly - have you seen qt version from karmic? ;)
<dtchen_> kklimonda: jinx
<maco> does it have a "-really"?
<kklimonda> yeah
<dtchen_> no, no hyphen
<jdong> did it hurt too much to bump the epoch?
<kklimonda> right, no hyphen but really is there... and I can remember an even better version string from the past..
<kklimonda> jdong: then we would have to convince debian maintainer to add epoch too
<ScottK> maco: If you're going to use the release number approach you need to do it for both Karmic and Jaunty.
<kklimonda> (I remember similar discussion from 6 months ago when we had a similar problem with python-storm)
<serialorder> is there a way to convert a patch from rcs format to unified?
<maco> ScottK: hence red button
<maco> ScottK: im redoing with it for both of them
<ScottK> OK.  Rejected
<maco> thank ye
<ScottK> No problem.
<dtchen_> oh man, old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe . *shudder*
<maco> kklimonda: i remember apache or mysql or something like that having a "really" string
<kklimonda> maco: I think it was mysql
<maco> yeah i think so too
<ScottK> Yep
<kklimonda> and I think ScottK could find an even better example of weird version string from some -updates (I remember him pasting it in the past ;) )
<ScottK> I think instead of really, we should use the IRC nick of the person that messed it up.
<maco> haha
<ScottK> I had to use an awful one in backports to revert a bad Flash backport once
<dtchen_> man, you gals/guys are really triggering *all* my bad Ubuntu memories
<dtchen_> vlc, flashplugin-nonfree, ...
<ScottK> And from you, that's saying something.
<maco> why?
<ScottK> Given that you live inside a major nightmare
<maco> because the packages he works on are most other people's bad ubuntu memories?
 * maco ducks
<mok0> heh
<maco> kees: "SECURITY UPDATE: [how the bad guys could get you]" *snicker*
 * jdong loved his markov generated security advisories
<jdong> haha I still have a copy of it
<jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/usnramble.txt
<maco> jdong: LINEBREAKS
<jdong> "ntpd does not check this privilege when executing
<jdong> non-Postfix commands"
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> they almost sound real.
<maco> huh?
<maco> oh...i see...
<jdong> I fed all of the USN's up to some date through a markov generator :)
<jdong> just to see what vulnerabilities it'd invent
<mok0> jdong, on a different note, you need help with backports?
<jdong> mok0: that would be appreciated, yes
<mok0> jdong: I've been on the applicants list for quite some time
<jdong> *looks
<jdong> yes you are
 * ScottK +1's mok0 for ubuntu-backporters.
<jdong> well, welcome aboard, mok0 :)
<mok0> Thanks :-)
<jdong> are you familiar with what to do, or do you need a quick tour?
<mok0> jdong, a quick tour might be good
<serialorder> ill try one more time, is there a way to convert a patch from rcs format to unified?
<mok0> jdong: but the packages that interest me the most are "leaf packages"
<serialorder> sorry i mean a diff
<ScottK> serialorder: I doubt anyone here knows.
<jdong> mok0: leaf packages are definitely the ones that are best for backporting
<jdong> general rules of thumb is that we'd prefer that they build cleanly with no source changes...
<mok0> serialorder: rcsdiff ?
<ScottK>  ^^^ The only one old enough to know.
<jdong> for those, we just ask for 2 or so reports that the built package works
<maco> serialorder: you could probably write a perl script...
<mok0> mok0: errh, perhaps it's rdff
<mok0> rdiff
<jdong> and then all you have to do is verbally ACK and subscribe ubuntu-archive.
<jdong> source change backports should be acked by a backporter and uploaded into the -backports pocket; and an archive admin will poke it through
<jdong> umm... I believe nowadays we're using the "Confirmed" state to mark a backport that's approved and "in progress" to mark uploaded source-change backports
<mok0> jdong: ... and should not introduce new dependencies I guess
<jdong> idn if the UbuntuBackports wiki page has been updated to reflect that yet
<ScottK> In progress for ones that are acked to the archive too
<jdong> mok0: I personally don't have a big objection to needing to pull in new dependencies
<jdong> it will make update-manager upset enough to request a partial upgrade
<jdong> more importantly is don't break any reverse dependencies
<ScottK> The biggest thing to worry about is things with rdpends.
<ScottK> Yeah
<jdong> and for server packages and other security-sensitive ones, keep in mind the maintenance commitment.
<mok0> jdong: maintenance-commitment?
<jdong> if we're backporting from one stable release to another, we can easily also backport over subsequent -security updates... but if we plucked mysqld from lucid right now...
<serialorder> mok0, thanks looking at it
<jdong> it's a bit troublesome if someone finds a security bug in it
<mok0> jdong: so, you mean a maintenance commitment from the backporter to keep an eye on problems with the package?
<jdong> mok0: right
<ScottK> There's no formal commitment, we just don't want to get stuck in a position were it's hard to fix.
<jdong> although technically we don't have a support/maintenance guarantee in Backports, we'd rather not take that to an extreme.
<jdong> for example, in the past I've dug myself into a hole with Firefox backports before.
<ScottK> jdong: Speaking of which, the qt4-x11 in hardy backports needs updating, but I can't find anyone to test it.  It should be a no-change from intrepid-security.
<jdong> ended up that we had something like gutsy-backports firefox collecting dust and nobody cared enough to go freshen it up.
<jdong> ScottK: hmm if it was a -security change, then my gut feeling would be to just backport it
<kklimonda> btw, are there any plans to enable users to easily install selected packages from -backports ?
<ScottK> jdong: Well it's also a big stack of other stuff too.
<jdong> lovely.....
<ScottK> kklimonda: There's a spec for it for Lucid
<kklimonda> I almost remember reading something about iit
<mok0> Well, I imagine there are many users who don't want to upgrade every 6 months... but still want newer versions and the bug-fixes that come with them. There's a balance between doing that and upgrading
<jdong> mok0: absolutely
<jdong> mok0: the challenge will be that the testing userbase rapidly declines as a release ages :)
<mok0> Using backports should give you a certain amount of updates, but not everyrhing
<kklimonda> and what is the general rule about backporting to LTS? for example could I backport package from LTS+2 to LTS? wouldn't it be a problem if someone tried to upgrade system to LTS+1?
<ScottK> jdong: qt4-x11 | 4.4.0-1ubuntu5~hardy1 | hardy-backports | source and qt4-x11 | 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.4 | intrepid-security | source
<jdong> kklimonda: should be backported to every release in between too
<jdong> ScottK: oh groan. Any ABI/API changes there?
<jdong> kklimonda: I guess the exception is for LTS's where LTS+1 is already out-of-support.
<ScottK> jdong: Shouldn't be.  qt4-x11 promised compatibility
<jdong> cool!
<jdong> that means we've got an external party to blame right? ;-)
<ScottK> Sure.
<kklimonda> right, that's how our users will see it ;)
<kklimonda> I just had to explain to the irritated user that we don't ship neither gtk+1.2 nor libartsc0 (or similar)...
<jdong> haha and I had to explain the same about libstdc++5.
<jdong> and it wasn't long ago that someone asked about gcc-2.95
<kklimonda> the libstdc++ was always the mess..
<maco> 2?
<mok0> kklimonda: ... but if you want basic upgrades in GTK or QT versions, you might as well upgrade to a newer release
<maco> someone asked in -kernel about 2.6.18 headers
<jdong> lol
<maco> did any release even ship 2.6.18? edgy was 17...
<jdong> yeah we definitely had a 2.6.18.
<kklimonda> btw, is it just me or had rmadison got faster for ubuntu lately? I don't have time to prepare a tea anymore ;)
<ScottK> But I don't think we ever released with it
<jdong> kklimonda: my umadison always gets rmadison answers the fastest.
<jdong> (haha yes, uber madison)
<dtchen_> no, we never released 2.6.18.
<dtchen_> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.*
<jdong> it must be Debian I'm thinking of then
<maco> jdong: yeah i think etch had it
<maco> centos 5 definitely did
<ScottK> Has.  It's still supported
<maco> yeah that
<dtchen_> linux-source-2.6.18 | 2.6.18.dfsg.1-24 |     oldstable | all
<dtchen_> linux-source-2.6.18 | 2.6.18.dfsg.1-26 | oldstable-proposed-updates | all
<kklimonda> dfsg? what non-free things linux source have?
<maco> ScottK: green button?
<jdong> kklimonda: the firmware tree.
 * ScottK looks
<mok0> kklimonda: the kernel has certain binary blobs that are non-free
<ScottK> maco: The task for Jaunty needs to be accepted.
<mok0> kklimonda: ... rather, certain kernel modules
<maco> ScottK: can i accept it since jdong said ack in here?
<ScottK> maco: Yes.  As a MOTU you can in general.
<maco> ScottK: i meant in terms of policy
<jdong> yes, you can accept the task :)
<ScottK> Accepting that task is more like "Yeah, seems like something we might want to fix" whereas motu-sru ack is "this exact fix is approved to go in"
<maco> ah ok
<maco> ok button pressed
<maco> your turn :P
 * maco throws hot potato
<ScottK> Done
<maco> thank you
<ScottK> Thank you for taking care of it.  My part's easy.
<maco> hey its kklimonda's patch :P
 * ScottK notes maco has the buildd's monopolized for all but armel and hppa at the moment.
<ScottK> Yeah, but you get to thank him.
<maco> hahahaha
<maco> already did
<maco> (hahahaha @ buildds)
<ScottK> ari-tczew (or whoever was asking about qa.ubuntuwire.com): It's fixed.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I'll put on hold the merge of incron: the Debian maintainer seems to be willing to include the patch
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: I don't know what Debian maintainer is doing
<ari-tczew> MoM comment was free, no bug request...
<fabrice_sp> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=548786
<ubottu> Debian bug 548786 in incron "incron: FTBFS in hardened mode because of an invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char*'" [Wishlist,Open]
<kklimonda> what are going to be requirenments for being Ubuntu developer after archive reorganization?
<maco> kklimonda: the definition of ubuntu developer will change a bit
<maco> kklimonda: youll apply to the team that covers the packages you concentrate on
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I usually reports all patches to Debian to see if Debian adopt the change, so that we can sync after, and reduce the Ubuntu worload
<kklimonda> maco: so there will be a desktop team, server team, python team etc. ?
 * TheMuso waves from a somewhat similar timezone as some of you.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, anyway, you should have asked me before working on the merge: I an the last uplaoder of the pacakge
 * ScottK waves back to TheMuso
<ScottK> kklimonda: Something like that.  What happens for packages covered by no team is subject of a session at UDS.
<maco> kklimonda: theres going to generalist-dev too
<ScottK> ari-tczew: fabrice_sp is correct.  The first thing is says on https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is "If you are not the previous uploader, ask the previous uploader before doing the merge. "
<kklimonda> ScottK: maybe it's time to admit we don't have manpower needed to maintain all of them? :/
<ScottK> maco: How exactly that's going to work is not clear yet (at least to me)
<ScottK> kklimonda: Universe has never been as well maintained as Main, but it has improved significantly in the last two years I've been around.
<dtchen_> kklimonda: no one has ever claimed that "we" have enough manpower
<TheMuso> i/c
<kklimonda> dtchen_: true
<dtchen_> and yes, it has gotten much better since 5.04
<kklimonda> heh, I should get my stuff together and upload all patches for piuparts already..
<fabrice_sp> that's why it's better to try to have changes adopted by Debian, instead of merging :-)
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: +1
<ari-tczew> OK devs
<TheMuso> c
 * TheMuso must be tired.
<TheMuso> ]:)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: could you review this bug #434433
<kklimonda> is python 2.5 going to be supported in lucid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434433 in gnome-devel-docs "Update to 2.28.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434433
<maco> TheMuso: why do you say that? because you just flew to yesterday?
<ScottK> kklimonda: No.
<maco> or from tomorrow to today. or something.
<wgrant> One Python version? Excellent.
<ScottK> So far
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I was having a quick look at bug 482657
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 482657 in gliv "Merge gliv 1.9.6-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482657
<TheMuso> maco: Something like that.
 * ScottK doesn't know the 2.7 schedule
<wgrant> ScottK: Mid-2010.
<ScottK> Ah, good.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, there seems to be an empty change in debian/rules (dh_installchangelog)
<ScottK> Of course we now have exactly no python version in common with Debian.
 * ScottK wishes the Ubuntu and Debian python maintainers would coordinate better.
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: and what next?
<fabrice_sp> could you just check if this change has been reported to Debian, and if it seems to be willing to adopt it?
<fabrice_sp> s/it seems/Debian seems/
<kklimonda> ScottK: python-support ships symlinks for python-support.pth for both 2.6 and 2.5 versions - python-support.pth for 2.5 is a dangling symlink. Can I assume that the same will happen when we ship 2.7? i.e. there will be another dangling symlink for 2.7 installed?
<ScottK> If we get 2.7, it won't be dangling.
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: do you mean about dh_installchangelog ? if yes, it is only a mistake made by me, during edit debian/rules
<serialorder> fabrice_sp, perhaps the MOTU merging guides should be updated with directive to check with debian to see if they will accept the merges
<kklimonda> ScottK: but in the default instalation when we ship only one version
<ScottK> kklimonda: That isn't always true
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, yes.
<fabrice_sp> serialorder, makes sense, yes. You just volunteered to do that, right? :-)
<kklimonda> ScottK: so the best idea is to ignore it (this broken symlink is one of things that stops piuparts from working out of the box in ubuntu)
<serialorder> fabrice_sp, i guess I did, I just sya that because I work on merges a lot and noboy has ever suggested asking debian to incorporate first
<serialorder> if relevant i always submit upstream after themerge though
<fabrice_sp> serialorder, I would say both, as Debian may want to integrate the patch before, but that's fine also
<fabrice_sp> the goal is to reduce the difference between Debian and Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> so if it goes through upstream, it's fine also (but may take longer) :-)
<serialorder> fabrice_sp, sorry i meant deabian not upstream
<ari-tczew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers
<fabrice_sp> for forwarding to debian, submittodebian is your firend :-)
<ScottK> kklimonda: I'm not 100% sure.
<fabrice_sp> s/firend/friend/
<fabrice_sp> it's also a matter of where we are in the dev cycle. Now, we are at the very beginning, so we have 'time' to try to get the patches adopted :-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: you have acked my request, after sync by ubuntu-archive packages will mark as uploaded by me or by you?
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, by you, I think
<fabrice_sp> never paid attention to that
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Should be by you, but sometimes it doesn't work out.
<ari-tczew> yhym OK
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, did you saw the comment of mterry in bug 434433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434433 in gnome-devel-docs "Update to 2.28.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434433
<fabrice_sp> he is saying that he should be a sync, and not a merge
<fabrice_sp> s/he/it/
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: yes, but I have more trust for you, so I want to ask you :P
<ari-tczew> so do I need to change bug's name and description to sync instead merge?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: you can give a review just now for sync
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, you can trust him: he is also a MOTU :-)
<fabrice_sp> it should be a sync, yes
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: done, bug 434433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434433 in gnome-devel-docs "Sync gnome-devel-docs 2.28.0-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434433
<POX> ScottK: Ubuntu and Debian Python maintainers are^Wis the same person
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, ok. I'm test building it right now
<ScottK> POX: I know.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, ack'd. Bed time now. Bye
<ari-tczew> thanks, bye
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-15
<quentusrex> Anyone around for some packaging advice? I'm trying to learn how to handle conffiles special... But I can't figure out how to tell the packager that these files are conffiles...
<micahg> quentusrex: have you seen this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn
<quentusrex> micahg, I'll read it now
<quentusrex> micahg, where can I get info on what folders different files should be in?
<micahg> quentusrex: this should be for the most part: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/fhs/fhs-2.3.html
<micahg> let me see if I can find an ubuntu specific one
<micahg> quentusrex: here's the complete apckaging guide with lots of examples: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<quentusrex> will pbuilder output properly built files? or will it just test?
<maco> yes itll output debs
<maco> i have my pbuilders in ~ so the debs end up in ~/pbuilder/result/
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> launchpad seems to actually have some resources now
<quentusrex> for the last few weeks it has taken many hours to get a package to start building...
<quentusrex> now it only took 20 minutes for the queue
<jdong> lol don't jinx it
<jdong> I've been racing mozilla-dailyteam-ppa for my thunderbird crack.
<jdong> and every time my virtualized AMD64 seems to win ;-)
<ScottK> At release time a lot of the PPA buildd's were re-purposed to be release mirrors.
<EzraR> can you edit a dpatch with a text editor? rather would it still work after?
<EzraR> this patch from DD does more than it says it does and I need it to do part of it but dont want all of it
<ScottK> EzraR: If you move entire hunks or don't change the number of lines, yes, but be careful
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys anyone know if there's a way to see in what talks someone is registered for the UDS
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Look through the schedule for your name.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, yeah I;m doing that but I was wondering if there;s was a way to see only the talks that I would be registered to without having to search through the schedule, but i guess there's not
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, anyways, at what time is the talk for the Future of MOTU?
<ScottK> Not that I know of.
<EzraR> ScottK: so in other words just make a new one
<ScottK> Tuesday at Noon.
<EzraR> ScottK: :)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, awesome. thansk :)
<maco> er, dont they get shoved around daily?
<ScottK> They do
<ScottK> It's just that currently that one is invisible on the schedule.
<ScottK> (See MOTU ml)
<maco> oh
 * txwikinger wonders about dimap with load on demand
<poseidon> What directory are third party programs usually compiled in on ubuntu?
<maco> poseidon: if you compile yourself, they end up in /usr/local/bin/
<maco> after you "sudo make install"
<poseidon> well the src is in my home directory.  But I can use ./configure --prefix=/usr/loca/bin, right?
<maco> if you dont set a prefix, itll end up in /usr/local/bin after you compile
<maco> if you were to set that prefix, itd end up in /usr/local/bin/bin
<poseidon> oh, ok
<maco> because it automatically appends bin/ lib/ share/ etc
<poseidon> that is starting to make a lot more sense now.  I was always wondering where binaries, data, scripts went.
<poseidon> so binaries in bin, libraries in lib and config settings in etc.  What is share/ used for?
 * ScottK hands poseidon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<poseidon> ScottK, oooh.  Thank you very much
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, are you going to the UDS?
<vorian> RoAkSoAx: nope, dholbach and cjwatson hate me
<vorian> :P
<vorian> i wasn
<vorian> 't very active for karmic
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, yeah... that;s a shame I was really looking forward to meeting u in person
<vorian> maybe in the spring
<vorian> i'll work my ass off
<vorian> :)
<RoAkSoAx> haha same here :)
<RoAkSoAx> ok then... next UDS it is :)
<vorian> sure
<vorian> plus texas sucks
<vorian> you'll likely to get killed by some mexican drug cartel
<vorian> they'll cut your head off and roll it into a general session
<ScottK> I think that's only in Houston.
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, hahaha yeah I think so..,. I;ve been recommended to go to a texan bar to see texans dance like in the movies, lol!!!
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, yeah that's only in Houston
<RoAkSoAx> but I live in Miami... which it is supposed to have one of the higher crime rates
<vorian> no, that's in el paso
<ScottK> Ah, right.
<vorian> RoAkSoAx: yeah, just be cautious about the hookers
<vorian> they won't tell you there hookers until they are ready to leave, if you catch my drift
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, hahaha yeah I know what u mean
 * ScottK gently reminds vorian this is allegedly a family friendly channel.
<vorian> and most ladies are connected to really big dudes who will be carrying a pistol or two
<vorian> whoopes
<vorian> just trying to warn him
<vorian> Dallas/FortWorth is a wild place
<vorian> y'all should get a group and go up to the Big Texan in Amarillo
<ScottK> Last time I was there was on a high school trip.
<ScottK> Let's just say that the chaperones were overmatched.
<vorian> i have an aunt who lives in arlington
<vorian> i'm sure
<RoAkSoAx> the other night I was watching a TV show of detectives that have to solve crimes in 48 hours or something like that... and It was in dallas... lots of weird thing happens there...
<vorian> depends on the area
<RoAkSoAx> yeah well there's crime everywhere...
<vorian> not in Soda Springs Idaho
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, that's where u at right now?
<RoAkSoAx> right?
<vorian> RoAkSoAx: yup
<vorian> we got about 4 inches of snow today
<vorian> it was awesome
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, alright then... my next stop Soda Springs - Idaho...
<vorian> any time, we have plenty of room
<vorian> these houses were about 1/2 of what they were in Ohio
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, here in Miami is sunny, not so hot nor cold... and real state is really cheap
<RoAkSoAx> apartments in downtown close to the beach that were 700k now are ~300k
<vorian> $300,000
<RoAkSoAx> yes
<vorian> oh my
<RoAkSoAx> still expensive though... but from 700k to 300k, that;s a big difference
<ScottK> They'll get cheaper when global warming floods you out.
<vorian> my house has two kitchens 6 bedrooms, hot tub, barn big peice of land 3 car garage - for less than 150k
<vorian> same house would have been more that 2x that in Ohio
<ScottK> 6 X that here
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, hahaha probably... but I have to enjoy in the meanwhile
<vorian> i bet
<vorian> the downside is it's a town of 4k people
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: As long as you didn't buy on the bottom few floors, just get a boat.
<vorian> but we have a cool gueiser
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, that's awesome!! I definitely gonna pay u a visit... I've heard that;s the potato state?
<vorian> yeah man
<vorian> our ssuper market sells 50pbs of taters for 9.99
<vorian> we also have a spring here that is naturally carbonated
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, hahah hopefully i will someday!! It would be awesome to have a yacht!!
<vorian> fosswire
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, wow!! here everything si expensive
<RoAkSoAx> well I'm off guys. See you vorian take care man
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, I guess I'll see you tomorrow or monday
<RoAkSoAx> night
<vorian> see ya
<EzraR> Add ubuntu_hardening.dpatch patch, fix FTBFS caused by -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
<EzraR> is that a special case or cause it to be FTBFS under normal setup
<ScottK> We need to keep that patch.  The hardening is standard for us.
<EzraR> ok
<fcuk112> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs/+bug/381490 does the patch look ok? how do i know if a package should be sponsored by main or universe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 381490 in xdg-user-dirs "xdg-user-dirs has no man pages; URL in README is incorrect" [Medium,Confirmed]
<fcuk112> also, can someone tell me what to do with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libavg/+bug/474004?  when i apt-get source i get version 0.8 back, so i'm not sure if i can just post a patch.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474004 in libavg "Please update libavg to 0.9.0" [Medium,Triaged]
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, main or universe: look at the package page
<fabrice_sp> about libavg: you can get 0.8 source, run uscan --verbose to see if it fetch the 0.9 source, and un uupdate on the tarball to generate the 0.9 source directory
<fcuk112> which package page?
<fabrice_sp> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-user-dirs
<fcuk112> is there a search page for packages or do you manually put it together?
<fabrice_sp> packages.ubuntu.com
<fabrice_sp> it still a bit behind launchpad, but should be ok
<fcuk112> what is un uupdate - a typo?  you mean i should just extract the tarball?
<fabrice_sp> nope. man uupdate: uupdate - upgrade a source code package from an upstream revision
<fcuk112> i get 2 tarballs, 1 with orig on it.  on which one do i run uupdate?
<fcuk112> in it
<fabrice_sp> orig should be a symlink to the upstream tarball
<fabrice_sp> so it's the same
<fcuk112> ah sorry ^_^
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<fcuk112> ok cool, now i have the libavg-0.9.0 folder.  it seems it already updated the changelog for me.  now what should i do?
<fabrice_sp> check if there are patches. If so, check if they still apply
<fabrice_sp> check also the README (if any), to see what are the changes, and the recommender dependencies
<fabrice_sp> and check if the dependencies in debian/control are still ok
<fcuk112> ok, the patches look like they have already been incorporated, so i removed the diff files in the patches folder and removed the entries from the series file.  there is no README file (only NEWS), how do i know whether the depencies configured in debian/control are still correct?  is it a matter of trying to recursively installing it?
<fabrice_sp> try to build the package and have a look at the 'configure' step can help
<fabrice_sp> it may not requires nes depepdencies
<fabrice_sp> new dependencies
<fcuk112> so i should run ./configure && make in the libavg-0.9.0 source folder?  won't it fail because i have not installed any of the dependencies?
<fabrice_sp> do you have a pbuilder installed?
<fabrice_sp> or a chroot?
<fcuk112> i have pbuilder yes
<fabrice_sp> so you can generate the source for the package (debuild -sa), nad build it with pbuilder
<fcuk112> ok
<micahg> fcuk112: don't forget to make a changelog entry regarding dropping the patch
<fcuk112> ok
<fabrice_sp> right: make sure you explain in the changelog all your changes
<fcuk112> humm getting this error from pbuilder: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library avg.so.0 needed by debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 (ELF format: 'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '').
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, perhaps because avg lib got renamed
<fabrice_sp> check in your build directory
<fcuk112> hummm, pbuilder already removed the build directory.
<fcuk112> am i allowed to do ./configure && make in the libavg-0.9.0 folder before i run pbuilder?  it may throw up the errors quicker, though it would change some files.
<fabrice_sp> hmm, I think you would need the build deps also in this case
<fcuk112> true, what if i did sudo apt-get install libavg to get the deps first.
<fabrice_sp> you can use apt-get build-dep libavg
<fcuk112> ok
<fabrice_sp> but it will install stuff on your main system
<fcuk112> that's ok, i'm running in a VM.
<fabrice_sp> ok :-)
<geser> login into your pbuilder and do it there or install a pbuilder-hook which gives you a shell if a build fails
<fcuk112> hummm, ./configure && make worked in the source folder, however when i now try debuild -S -kxxx i get this kind of output : http://www.pastie.org/699474
<fcuk112> as the make updated the binaries, can i still package it?
<azeem> fcuk112: debuild -S is to build a source package
<azeem> fcuk112: you need to run the clean target first; AIUI debuild -S should do this, so apparently your clean target does not really clean up the build tree
<fcuk112> ah, make clean fixed it nicely.
<azeem> fcuk112: do you have a clean: target in debian/rules?
<fcuk112> azeem: yes, it says   $(RM) -r build* debian/stamp-*
<fcuk112> azeem: with clean:: prefix, is that what you meant?
<azeem> prefix?
<azeem> I mean a Makefile rule
<fcuk112> debian/rules: http://www.pastie.org/699485
<azeem> if you run "fakeroot debian/rules clean", is your $(RM) line executed?
<fcuk112> azeem: yes.
<fcuk112> azeem: but i think the problem was that i ran make in the actual source folder to test, hence had to run make clean to reverse.
<azeem> oh, right
<azeem> I was just going to say; the object files in your above paste were below src/, not build/
<fcuk112> if we could get the compilation speed of "go" that would be a big win
<fcuk112> i still have this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library  avg.so.0 needed by debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 (ELF format:  'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '').
<fcuk112> setup a pbuilder hook and when i try to grep for the file i get this: http://www.pastie.org/699559
<fcuk112> debian/rules unchanged and looks like this: http://www.pastie.org/699485
<hedkandi_> hello I've put a new package on revu: a simple rss editor. I'm here to encourage you to revu it.
<hedkandi_> Anyone interested?
<hedkandi_> It's a small application written in C++ relying on wxWidgets and GMetaDOM
<hyperair> it might be a good idea to mention the package name as well
<fabrice_sp> and a link to revu (even if I don't have time to revu it now)
<hedkandi_> indeed, it's called rssedit
<hedkandi_> however it's not on the revu page yet. I ftp'd it last nite and I don't think it's been processed.
<hedkandi_> Is there a chron job that does the processing or does someone go and unpack it manually?
<fabrice_sp> ?! Revu process the upload in less than 20 minute,s IIRC
<fabrice_sp> cron
<hedkandi_> oh dear I wonder what's happened to it then!?
<fabrice_sp> did you log to revu?
<hedkandi_> I used ftp
<hedkandi_> ftp revu.ubuntuwire.com
<hedkandi_> anon login
<hedkandi_> cd incoming
<fabrice_sp> to the web interface, I mean
<fabrice_sp> you have to use dput
<hedkandi_> I didn't use dput
<fabrice_sp> that's why your package didn't show
<hedkandi_> why do I have to use dput?
<fabrice_sp> because it upload signed package (you upload the changes file)
<fabrice_sp> !revu | hedkandi_
<ubottu> hedkandi_: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<hedkandi_> I created a signed package and ftp'd it
<hedkandi_> if you look at the code for dput, all it does it open an ftp connection and do what I did.
<fabrice_sp> as you want: the wiki pages explains what you have to do, but you can do it your own way
<hedkandi_> I know that some people prefer to use dput, but it's not obligatory
<hedkandi_> It just says on the webpage something about "uploads to revu should be signed source packages"
<hedkandi_> which mine was.
<hedkandi_> maybe it didn't have my gpg key?
<fabrice_sp> did you read the wiki page?
<hedkandi_> I did
<hedkandi_> many times
<hedkandi_> and I can't say I thought it was helpful
<hedkandi_> but that's another story
<fabrice_sp> did you do that : It is important that you login to REVU at least once before you upload first package. If this is not done then REVU will not have your GPG key imported from Launchpad and the package will get rejected automatically.
<fabrice_sp> you can make it better: it's a wiki
<hedkandi_> I am in the process of doing so
<hedkandi_> Indeed, if you'd like to view my article on the subject, I'll show it to you.
<hedkandi_> but right now I'd prefer to know what happened to my source package please!
<fabrice_sp> did you do that : It is important that you login to REVU at least once before you upload first package. If this is not done then REVU will not have your GPG key imported from Launchpad and the package will get rejected automatically.
<hedkandi_> well I logged into wiki.ubuntu.com
<hedkandi_> is that the same?
<hedkandi_> heehee
<fabrice_sp> no
<hedkandi_> okay then. I'll have another go!
<fabrice_sp> you have to log to revu
<hedkandi_> thanks for the advice!
<hedkandi_> see you later.
<fabrice_sp> it was in the wiki
<fabrice_sp> bye ;-)
<lamalex> is there somewhere i can can get extra pbuilder debug info?
<lamalex> i get this
<lamalex> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow/. mount -t proc proc /proc
<lamalex> E: debootstrap failed
<lamalex> but not sure where/how debootstrap is failing
<dtchen_> it isn't debootstrap per se
<dtchen_> it's chroot
<dtchen_> can you actually chroot successfully using that command?
<lamalex> well no but it rm -rf's /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow
<lamalex> any suggestions for how to test what's breaking?
<dtchen_> well, basics like ensuring that /var/cache has sufficient space, etc.
<lamalex> it does
<lamalex> 82gb available
<lamalex> should be suffecient ;P
<dtchen_> whta process triggers that error, i.e., what are you attempting?
<dtchen_> what*
<lamalex> cowbuilder --create
<lamalex> as root
<adama> lamalex: we tend to call those farmers :/
<lamalex> adama: what?
<lamalex> oh
<hyperair> lamalex: ^Z cowbuilder and chroot manually
<lamalex> happens so fast, is there a way to do it before it tried?
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> let's see...
<hyperair> http://groups.google.com/group/ec2ubuntu/browse_thread/thread/e377df1c730f114f this has a similar error message
<hyperair> mount is failing for some reason then
<lamalex> super weird
<hyperair> indeed
<hyperair> try mounting proc elsewhere and seeing if that works?
<lamalex> ok it's definitely something in my config
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> lemme see?
<hyperair> i get something else entirely if i remove my config
<hyperair> E: Package cowdancer has no installation candidate
<hyperair> =p
<lamalex> heh
<hedkandi_> sorry folks, I have uploaded my package to revu at 1420 and it's not registering.
<hedkandi_> could someone please check the error logs and tell me why not?
<hedkandi_> it doesn't like something.
<hedkandi_> I gave it a signed dsc file and a tarball on ftp
<geser> did you login on revu before you first upload? and did you only upload the source package?
<hyperair> hedkandi_: you need to give it a signed _source.changes file
<hedkandi_> is that part of a debian source package?
<hedkandi_> I think not
<geser> no, but you need that for upload
<lamalex> hyperair: it breaks with a custom debootstrap script, so I think that's the issue. I'm trying to create an image of an ubuntu derivative
<hedkandi_> ah but it doesn't say that on the wiki page
<geser> which wiki page?
<lamalex> it builds a jaunty image fine. Wonder why it's breaking though I didnt change much
<hedkandi_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<hyperair> lamalex: ah. i see
<lamalex> i really only chnaged the mirror locations
<hyperair> lamalex: did you mkdir /proc?
<hedkandi_> it says "Packagers can upload their packages to REVU"
<hedkandi_> and a .changes file is NOT part of a source package
<lamalex> hyperair: shouldn't /proc exist already?
<hyperair> hedkandi_: sure it isn't. but you need it to upload something with dput.
<lamalex> isn't that a pretty importanti dir
<geser> hedkandi_: "Uploading to REVU is done with dput. "
<hedkandi_> Uploads to REVU should only be signed source files, with the original tarball
<hyperair> hedkandi_: even if you upload using plain ol ftp you need to upload with _source.changes
<hedkandi_> it doesn't say it is obligatory to use dput.
<hyperair> but it's obligatory to add your .changes file
<hedkandi_> it doesn't say that
<hedkandi_> on the wiki page
<hyperair> okay, lemme rephrase
<hyperair> stfu, do what i say, and watch it work, or continue arguing and get nowhere.
<geser> hedkandi_: yes, you should only "upload" the _source.changes file (with dput), and not the _i386.changes file because you forget to pass -S to dpkg-buildpackage
<hedkandi_> is there a link for _source.changes format?
<lamalex> it gets generated with debuild -S
<geser> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-debianchangesfiles
<hedkandi_> thx for the help!
<geser> but why do you need that? debuild -S build it for you
<hyperair> lamalex: i think one of the udebs should setup /proc, but it's not?
<lamalex> hmm
<lamalex> anyway to debug which it is? it's possible our archive is incomplete
 * hyperair doesn't know
<hyperair> i think the first step would be to find out why mount is failing
<hyperair> is it because mount is missing, or mount is not properly setup, or /proc is missing?
<lamalex> i think i may have figured it out..
<hyperair> ?
<lamalex> our archive doesn't have the debootstrap udeb
<lamalex> which i htink sets up /proc
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> i see
<dtchen_> yeah, that would do it
<hyperair> does it set up /proc?
<hyperair> i dion't see it in the debootstrap udeb
<lamalex> maybe it doesn't ijust read something online that gave me that inclination
<fcuk112> i still have this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library  avg.so.0 needed by
<fcuk112>                           debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 (ELF format:  'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '').
<fcuk112> 13:10 <         fcuk112 > setup a pbuilder hook and when i try to grep for the file i get this:
<fcuk112>                           http://www.pastie.org/699559
<fcuk112> i still have this error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library  avg.so.0 needed by
<fcuk112>                           debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 (ELF format:  'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '').
<fcuk112> 13:10 <         fcuk112 > setup a pbuilder hook and when i try to grep for the file i get this:
<fcuk112>                           http://www.pastie.org/699559
<fcuk112> oops sorry to paste twice
<hedkandi_> okay
<EzraR> I need to update a patch but am unsure what the correct change is anyone able to help?
<EzraR> http://pastebin.com/d19803bb
<lfaraone> How do I include an upstream changelog with CDBS?
<lfaraone> *a cdbs-using package
<ScottK> Should be automagic, but you can include it in binaryname.docs (or doc, I don't recall) in your debian dir (like binaryname.install for other stuff)
<ripps> lfaraone: It should be chosen automatically, but you cans specify it manually in the rules file with DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL
<lfaraone> ripps: well, upstream ships `debian/` in their orig.tar.gz, and their changelog is debian/changelog.
<lfaraone> ripps: I'm not sure if there's an automagic way to handle that, other than by extracting the changelog from the upstream tarball and renaming it.
<ScottK> I think including debian/changelog in the doc file will work
<bbigras> anyone good with python package can help fix this problem with the apt-zeroconf package from their ppa http://pastebin.ca/1672338 . there's a "ImportError: No module named aptzeroconf.daemon" error when the package is installed but the init script works if used by hand. the ppa is at https://launchpad.net/~apt-zeroconf/+archive/ppa
<hedkandi_> can I ask, does the .changes file for revu need to have any specific name?
<hedkandi_> is hello.changes.asc okay?
<hedkandi_> please?
<hyperair> hedkandi_: out of curiosity, what are you trying to do?
<hedkandi_> upload a package to revu
<hyperair> (if this message got through already, sorry -- network issues)
<hyperair> hedkandi_: then why don't you just use debuild -S to generate your .dsc, .diff.gz, AND your .changes file?
<hyperair> why go through the trouble of creating the .changes file by hand?
<hedkandi_> am i not allowed to?
<hyperair> it's just error prone and tedious
<hedkandi_> I rather think the opposite
<hyperair> why don't you generate your .dsc, and .diff.gz by hand as well then?
<hedkandi_> If I do it my way I understand what's happening.
 * hyperair coughs and mutters something along the line of control freak
<hyperair> fine, do what you want. i won't stop you.
<hyperair> >_>
 * hedkandi_ is
<hyperair> it's your time you're wasting after all
<hedkandi_> I think that's rude actually and unhelpful as well
<hedkandi_> who's moderating this channel?
<yofel> hedkandi_: I also don't understand why you want to create a file using your own method instead of using the automatic process that usually takes only a few seconds...
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: to answer your question, yes, the .changes file needs to be an actual .changes file named .changes, unsurprisingly.
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: this is outlined in Debian Policy regarding source packages
<hedkandi_> thanks folks
<hedkandi_> I thought it was a file extension
<hedkandi_> my mistake.
<hedkandi_> just seems a bit weird to call a file .changes which hides it
<hedkandi_> what IS the point of hiding it?
<hedkandi_> it is the most important file in the upload
<hedkandi_> ???
<dtchen_> hmm? _source.changes isn't hidden...
<hedkandi_> you just said "named .changes"
<dtchen_> Ubuntu does source-only uploads, unlike debian
<dtchen_> Debian*
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: sorry, I was being imprecise
<hedkandi_> now you're saying it's called _source.changes?
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: when a source package is generated, it's always sourcepackage_version_source.changes for that file
<dtchen_> e.g., pulseaudio_0.9.20-0ubuntu1~~karmic~ubuntuaudiodev1_source.changes
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: i.e., it's still just as important that you name the file properly for your source package and version, but dpkg-buildpackage automates that
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: hence why others have implied that you should use the tools available instead of editing by hand
<hedkandi_> indeed, but I'm afraid I really don't understand those automated tools
<hedkandi_> I'd prefer to write my own
<dtchen_> hmm, I presume, then, that you're building your own debian/* ?
<dtchen_> i.e., not using debhelper, etc.
<hedkandi_> I posit that it would take me more time to understand all the complicated tools that are available
<hedkandi_> than write my own
<hedkandi_> and if I write my own I gain a good understanding of the topic AND the ability to fix them
<dtchen_> sure, but you could also learn the existing tools and fix bugs in them. :-)
<hedkandi_> I'm afraid I didn't understand the wiki page at ubuntu so I'd rather do it myself
<directhex> i certainly wouldn't advocate a package built in that way
<hedkandi_> indeed, this is a good proposition, and in the past I have suggested some brilliant bug-fixes
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: what came of those suggestions in Debian?
<hedkandi_> but then someone in charge says he can't change it because it would break backwards-compatibility or
<hedkandi_> he thinks it should behave in a weird / undocumented manner
<dtchen_> with whom did you speak?
<hedkandi_> so I just have this attitude that I should do it myself
<hedkandi_> and really all I need to do it myself are the specifications for how the system operates, and
<hedkandi_> they should, I think be available
<serialorder> if i include an auto close tag for LP in a changelog and the referenced bug has several duplicates will it close the duplicates as well?
<hedkandi_> I have documented what I have discovered and I have posted an article on my website
<hedkandi_> so that other people can do things an alternative way.
<m4rtin> hedkandi_: I think, also, that you are not so much as learning how it works, as wasting a great deal of time re-inventing the wheel
<hedkandi_> well I don't want to waste YOUR time, obviously
<dtchen_> serialorder: no, only the listed one. The duplicates don't really matter, since they already are slaved to the master.
<hedkandi_> so I'm sorry if I have
<dtchen_> (no offense intended to anyone aggravated by the master/slave semantics)
<hedkandi_> however, I only asked for a few small snippets of information like the names of files to upload to revu
<hedkandi_> which is not asking a lot.
<hedkandi_> I am allowed to spend my time as I wish.
<serialorder> dtchen_, what do you mean?
<m4rtin> hedkandi_: absolutely, but if you use the existing procedures then your packages will be more likely to be accepted. Nevertheless, if you have an interest in how packaging works, I can see how it can be interesting to write your own
<dtchen_> serialorder: I mean that duplicates don't need to have their statuses changed, since they're already marked duplicates
<serialorder> oh ok
<hedkandi_> I appreciate that you MOTU people think you have discharged your responsibility to provide
<directhex> hedkandi_, you upload a .changes file, using dput, which will also upload the required source package files
<directhex> e.g. banshee_1.5.1-1_source.changes
<hedkandi_> stuff about packages, but I have spent days struggling over it.
<directhex> which contains checksums for banshee_1.5.1-1.dsc, banshee_1.5.1-1.diff.gz, banshee_1.5.1.orig.tar.gz and will upload them too
<dtchen_> hedkandi_: just a suggestion: please try to avoid using the "us versus them" mentality. We're all attempting to work on packages, and how we get there is debatable, but offensive/defensive separation isn't really conducive here.
<hedkandi_> indeed
<hedkandi_> there's no I in team!
<directhex> there's M and E though
<hedkandi_> indeed.
<hedkandi_> what fun
<hedkandi_> my basic thesis however is that creating a package is really very simple, and I shouldn't have to use or learn
<hedkandi_> a zillion scripts
<hedkandi_> and actually if you look at some of those dpkg-scripts or dput etc
<hedkandi_> they are really big programs that import loads of things and launch other things
<hedkandi_> and it seems to me to be totally unnecessary
 * hyperair wonders if hedkandi_ came from gentoo
<directhex> okay, so don't use dput. manually use ftp and md5sum
<hedkandi_> I've made my own packages with a handful of commands
<directhex> which would work
<hyperair> and sha1sum and sha256sum
<directhex> those too, yes
<directhex> i think there's a guy you want to talk to, actually
<hyperair> i'd still suggest using debuild -S, examining the .changes file generated, and then learning from there
<hedkandi_> well actually I don't mind using dpkg-source... that's the only one I use
<directhex> manoj. he's also rejected the concept of making "computers" do repetitive menial tasks, and prefers doing things by hand
<hyperair> lol
<hedkandi_> But here is a valid suggestion which I would like you to consider:
<hedkandi_> I think it is entirely okay to upload a debian source package to revu .
<hyperair> erm yes, we all upload debian source packages to revu.
<hyperair> don't we?
<hedkandi_> no
<hyperair> then what do you upload?
<hyperair> rather, what do you call that which you upload?
<directhex> i upload debian source packages to debian
 * hyperair sighs. technicalities.
<directhex> and occasionally to ubuntu
<hyperair> speaking of debian source packages, do the stuff in ubuntu support source version 3?
<hedkandi_> there is a technical difference between a debian source-package and a debian package-update
<hyperair> er what?
<hyperair> what's a package-update?
<hedkandi_> a source-package is described by a .dsc file which has a section underneath "Files:"
<directhex> hedkandi_, yes. technically one of those things exists, and one doesn't
<hedkandi_> Included in that list of files is a debian/ directory which must include four further files
<hedkandi_> changelog, rules, copyright and control
 * hyperair digs out some dscs to look at
<hedkandi_> A debian package-update is described by a .changes file and there are no required files
<hedkandi_> That is the difference
<hedkandi_> The "revu" upload will delete a debian source-package because it lacks a .changes file
<hedkandi_> and this is my view is silly.
<hedkandi_> I ask that this be changed.
<hyperair> but why
<hyperair> why do you think it's silly?
<hyperair> the .changes is used for authentication
<hyperair> just as the actual ubuntu and debian archives, and the PPAs figure out who's uploading what
<hedkandi_> the .dsc is similar in format to the .changes file and also contains authentication data
<hyperair> hmm it does eh..
<hyperair> yeah it does
<hedkandi_> the .dsc file usually contains md5 checksums and you can sign it as well.
<hedkandi_> but anyway, I'm going back to work
<hedkandi_> thanks for your help
<hyperair> sha1 and sha256 for me
<hedkandi_> I look forward to getting my package accepted to ubuntu soonish.
<directhex> i would under no circumstances advocate a package which can't be tested & built by standard means. the pressing reason to use "normal" tools is to ensure that people other than yourself are able to maintain a package in your absence. unlike debian, ubuntu has a policy that any packager can update any package - and this is requires because the ubuntu dev community simply sin't large enough for individual package ownership beyond ad-
<directhex> hoc "last touched" approaches. if you have a package which a casual observer can't upload a bugfix for, you have a potentially problematic package
<hedkandi_> directhex, the debian policy provides for all that you require. I am working within the debian policy. That policy
<hedkandi_> does not enforce the use of tools like dput and so forth.
<hedkandi_> and thus I am free to use my own tools if I want to.
<hedkandi_> and I will still produce debian packages, and no-one will be able to tell from looking at them
<hedkandi_> what tools I used to produce them
<hedkandi_> let's try not going off-topic shall we?
<jdong> well we're not the ones who spent the last 4 hours talking about this.
<jdong> if you want to build your own tools to handle Debian source package generation, you're welcome to do so, but discussion of such is off topic for this channel.
<directhex> who's being offtopic? if i can't test-build your package, i won't upload it. i need to be able to regenerate the source package to sanity-check it.
<hedkandi_> okay then
<EzraR> anyone familiar with "ubuntu hardening" patches?
<directhex> good lord what an ego. "i know better than everything a thousand debian developers have learnt over the last 15 or so years, and i'll act all offended if you suggest otherwise"
<dtchen_> I can understand the desire to learn the process, but writing a tool may not be the most efficient manner
<kees> EzraR: yup, sure.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
<EzraR> I have a source that changed the code a hardening patch was applyied to can someone tell me if this looks like a correct fix
<dtchen_> unfortunately, it is how programming tends to be taught
<EzraR> http://pastebin.com/m6a9a5124
<kees> EzraR: it looks like upstream decided to add IRGRP | S_IROTH, so I'd just leave upstream as-is.
<EzraR> i asume the orig person that made the patch was making the perms more restrictive though
<EzraR> upstream also added user read and other read perms
<kees> EzraR: right, it's a safe assumption, but it looks like upstream has a different idea, which is fine.
<EzraR> kees: ok because I was told that hardening is standard for ubuntu and should be left in
<kees> EzraR: the issue was lacking the "mode" parameter, which upstream has fixed.
<EzraR> kees: ok
<EzraR> my next question is what would be the proper thing to do if I fix a bug during a merge that someone has already assigned themselves to?
<ajmitch> directhex: share the gossip, where's that from?
<directhex> ajmitch, hm? the last god knows how long in here!
<ajmitch> oh fun
 * ajmitch thought you were quoting from a mailing list or something :)
<serialorder> how long does it usually take for a ppa upload to show up in launchpad?
<ajmitch> 5-10 minutes
<ajmitch> directhex: I just read the scrollback, how very formal
<serialorder> never mind i had an erro
<hyperair> ajmitch: few hours.
<hyperair> oh whoops wrong context
<hyperair> directhex: replace "act all offended" with "accuse you of being rude and call for moderators to kick/ban you" and it'll be about right
<pkern> directhex: yada yada yada
<hedkandi> well thanks for telling me about debuild -S that was actually reasonably easy!
<hedkandi> bye
<directhex> o_o
 * directhex connects head to desk
<serialorder> haha
<serialorder> my main complaint about the build tools is they are too easy =P
<serialorder> when you first start out its really easy to build things without knowing whats going on
<serialorder> but its really not a complaint =)
 * hyperair facepalms
<siretart> reading source code might in some case be helpful as well. oh well.
<ajmitch> siretart: unless it's cdbs
<ajmitch> though cdbs source is better than its documentation :)
<quinda> This may be a silly question, but I'm interested in learning how to package.  There's a [needs-packaging] bug for the latest version of Pygame on Launchpad, but that package has also been requested for Debian.  My understanding is that Ubuntu pulls packages from Debian, so does that mean I shouldn't package the new version and get 'ahead' of what Debian has?
 * quinda hopes that didn't sound too stupid, I'm still learning how everything ties together
<ripps> quinda: go ahead and package it and then submit to both debian and ubuntu
<quinda> OK, thanks. Looks like I'll have to read up on Debian's processes too, then :)  I only found out about the Debian bug because it was linked on the PyGame site.
<ScottK> quinda: It's a good question.
<ScottK> In general we prefer to get stuff from Debian, but we will also do our own updates.  I'd suggest get it updated here and then offer to help the Debian maintainer update it in Debian.
<quinda> Thanks.  I'll have a shot at packaging it then.  Spent most of the weekend reading the wiki, fingers crossed this will go smoothly.
<Amaranth> updating an existing package is usually pretty simple
<Amaranth> unless upstream has gone bonkers and changed how everything works between releases
<fcuk112> ./configure && make in the source folder worked fine, debuild -S worked fine, but when i pbuilder build i get the following error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library avg.so.0 needed by debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 (ELF format: 'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '').
<fcuk112> Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have any shlibs or symbols file.
<fcuk112> To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
<fcuk112> any idea where i should be looking?
<maxb> fcuk112: The Note that dpkg-shlibdeps gave you is likely relevant. Where *is* avg.so.0 ?
<fcuk112> maxb: i setup a pbuilder hook and did a grep for it: http://www.pastie.org/699559
<fcuk112> maxb: however there is no libavg folder under dist-packages or site-packages.
<maxb> Clearly there is. Or grep would not print: Binary file usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/libavg/avg.so.0 matches
<maxb> Something is very broken about this software if it is installing libraries into /usr/lib/ which link against a python module .so
<ScottK> bdrung: How come we can't get matplotlib to be a sync?
<bdrung> ScottK: some ubuntu users complains to much.
<ScottK> bdrung: What does that man?
<ScottK> man/mean
<bdrung> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/matplotlib/+bug/301007 is not done, yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301007 in matplotlib "auto backend discovery at start time" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<bdrung> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/matplotlib/+bug/303158
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303158 in matplotlib "'python-matplotlib' does not install depencency 'python-tk' (dup-of: 301007)" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> bdrung: I just saw you uploaded a merge.  Are we carrying some change that can't go back to Debian?
<bdrung> ScottK: only one change: "Explicitly depend on python-tk as workaround for LP #301007; drop these changes if an auto backend discovery is implemented by upstream."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301007 in matplotlib "auto backend discovery at start time" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301007
<ScottK> bdrung: It seems reasonable for Debian to consider this too.
<bdrung> ScottK: i do not want to apply this in debian, because it only a workaround for the default and not the correct solution
<ScottK> bdrung: Is the upstream feature planned in time for Squeeze?
<bdrung> ScottK: we have discussed it with upstream and IIRC they liked the idea. i do not know how far we are in reaching it
<ScottK> OK, well it seems that if it isn't coming soon, Debian users would likely be better off with a work around than nothing too.
<ScottK> If not, I question why ours are.
<bdrung> until now no debian user complained (opened a bug report)
<ScottK> I think it's good if developers make improvements ahead of user's complaining.
<ScottK> Particularly in Debian with their long release cycles.
<bdrung> i think we should contact upstream first
 * ajmitch hopes that debian does manage to get python 2.6 as default
<kklimonda> well, imo if package by default uses Tk it should at least recommend it (I remember having the same conversation about this bug some months ago that's why I'm speaking now ;) )
<maxb> Would be nice, but given how painful 2.5->2.6 is, I would understand if they don't
<ajmitch> maxb: most packages have been updated for 2.6, but it'd make it even better if lucid & squeeze have the same major version
<ajmitch> and thankfully not everything is as complex as LP to get working on 2.6 :)
<maxb> heh
<maxb> Fingers crossed, edge.lp.net goes 2.5 tomorrow
<kklimonda> was running on 2.4 till now?
<maxb> yes
<ajmitch> maxb: thanks to a lot of your efforts
<maxb> I helped :-). Barry and Gary and Salgado did the heavy lifting struggling with Zope.
<ajmitch> so it'll be running on 2.6 in the next release or two?
<maxb> No. Currently the plan is to get it on 2.5 now, and defer major efforts to get it onto 2.6 until the datacentre gets upgraded to Lucid
<ajmitch> I thought that with the 'encouragement' for developers to run the latest ubuntu release, there'd be some urgency
<ajmitch> since I don't know what's happening with keeping 2.5 around for lucid yet
<ajmitch> it's probably something that'll be discussed at UDS
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-15
<micahg> can I get an SRU opinion on bug 640987
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640987 in phpmyadmin (Ubuntu) "phpmyadmin v.3.3.2, problem inserting a new user. " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/640987
<micahg> jdong: ^^
<jdong> micahg: slowly checking out the git tree to pull the patch :)
<micahg> jdong: I can pastebin if you like
<jdong> sure
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/532121/
<micahg> It's really small, but seems to be an edge case
<jdong> the change is pretty subtle
<jdong> but hmm reasoning through it, it seems reasonable
<ajmitch> ah, the wonders of PHP
<jdong> grumble :)
<micahg> jdong: ok, I'll prepare an update later this week then
<micahg> jdong: thanks
<jdong> sounds good
<jdong> yeah it's definitely suitable for a SRU
<micahg> jdong: ok, so edge cases where the change is minimal qualify?
<jdong> for a universe-y SRU, I'd approve of it.
<jdong> as long as we're not SRU'ing glibc or fixing a typo in the about box :)
<micahg> jdong: heh, ok, thanks
<jdong> sure thing. Congrats re MOTU :)
 * micahg still needs to do security updates for that package as well
<micahg> jdong: thanks :)
<jdong> wait, we haven't given up on securing phpmyadmin yet?
<jdong> *puts on flamesuit*
<micahg> jdong: well, no one seems to be interested, so I was going to try
<ScottK> jdong: How secure with anything in php in it's name expected to be.
<ajmitch> jdong: no, flames would be suggesting that we remove php5 from the archive
<ScottK> micahg: There's an active maintainer in Debian, so it's doable.
<micahg> I actually filed a bug a while ago and prepared the patches, but never actually made the debdiff
<micahg> ScottK: indeed, but we don't ship the same versions, but wit git format-patch, the patching isn't that bad since they publish the commits
<ScottK> micahg: Are we ahead of them?
<micahg> ScottK: lenny had 2.11.8.1, squeeze has 3.3.7
<micahg> lucid has 3.3.2 and maverick has 3.3.7, so I guess for maverick we can get updates from Debian
<ScottK> Lenny and Hardy line up nicely too.
<fabrice_sp> micahg, bug #675339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 675339 in polygraph (Ubuntu) "new upstream bugfix release 4.0.11" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/675339
<fabrice_sp> I shouldn't have too many channels opened!
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I'm sure I have more :)
<fabrice_sp> I tend to it under 10, but still a mess!
<micahg> fabrice_sp: so, I can look at this, but it might not be until tomorrow night
<fabrice_sp> as you want: I was going to subscribe sponsors, when I remembered that you were willing to sponsor something not so long ago
<fabrice_sp> np: I'll subscribe sponsors, then
<micahg> fabrice_sp: ok, if no one gets to it before me, I'll take it
<fabrice_sp> cool. Thanks!
<micahg> fabrice_sp: np, I just have to also be careful not to neglect my packageset as well :)
<fabrice_sp> sure: you will have more unhappy users if you neglect it than if you don't sponsor something outside;-)
<dholbach> good morning!
<EvaLuaTe> hello
<EvaLuaTe> I have packaged a new program for debian, but it seems to take the debian guys quite long to include it in the repo. Would it be faster if I create a sepparate package for ubuntu and submit that, instead of waiting for the inclusion in debian and then for ubuntu to get it from there?
<Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: What was your approach to get it included in Debian? Where and how did you look for a sponsor to upload the package for you?
<Rhonda> Also, please notice that Debian is currently in freeze and that the ftp masters are busy with other stuff so processing the NEW queue is rather low on their priorities because it won't get squeeze out any faster.
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I uploaded it to mentors.debian.org and have talked to the people on the mentors mailing list, the thing is though they told me to send an e-mail to the original maintainer (my program is forked from another program, that is already being maintained in debian), and then wait a couple of weeks for him to anwer, to see if he's interested in sposoring/co-maintaining the project
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, I understand that, I'm not that big-headed, it's just these waiting times that drive me nuts...
<Rhonda> a.) it's mentors.debian.net, b.) who's the original maintainer? Maybe that would be a hint on estimates of responses. :)
<Rhonda> Totally can relate to that, sometimes I'm pretty impatient myself. But being impatient won't get you much sympathy usually, so try to avoid that, some people tend to get annoyed by too much pushy mails.
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, .net, my bad. The original maintainer is named Andrew Starr-Bochicchio. http://packages.debian.org/testing/misc/parcellite
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yes, I know I can get annoying at times, it's just that I hate spending time waiting for a reply on a mailing list, not knowing what the future of that package is, when I could rather spend that time improving the program or doing some more constructive sutff...
<Rhonda> Never heard of him. :)
<Rhonda> Didn't call _you_ annoying, was meant as general advice. :)
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I said it myself, caus I know I can get annoying at times... :p
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, anyway, are you suggesting I should wait for an answer from him too?
<Rhonda> bdrung: You are on a team with him for gnome-colors, when had you last heard of Andrew Starr-Bochiccio? :)
<bdrung> Rhonda: two month ago
<Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: Just checked his DDPO page for packages he maintained and when last activity from him might had been
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, I have also checked him up a bit, but I couldn't find any clue as to when he was last active...
<Rhonda> EvaLuaTe: Hmm, given that there are three ITPs by him for packages that are already in ubuntu I'm not sure if you are better off when you upload to ubuntu now already â¦
<Rhonda> Be sure to choose a 0ubuntu1 version. :)
<Rhonda> Though, they were filed in August â¦
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, hmm. Well, I have uploaded the first version of my package (even though it wasn't perfect) just a couple of hours after filing the ITP, and I wouldn't see why anyone would take longer than that, especially if they are an experienced packager/maintainer
<EvaLuaTe> but, I mean, from August to November, it's 3 months at least...
<Rhonda> Because an ITP is meant to reduce duplicate efforts. It might take a bit to get to a state that one is confident with uploading.
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yeah, but 3 months? :p
<Rhonda> Said that, when there is already a package in ubuntu I'm not sure how that should take too long neither, but that's only for him to know.
<Rhonda> Private life, don't underestimate that driving force.
<Rhonda> I took way too long for uploading gitolite myself because of various different situations, including a fair amount of slacking, but still.
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, yes, sure. I also have a private life. I work 8 and a half hours a day, and I'm at school around 4 hours each day, and still I could fix all the problems with my package in a couple of days :-)
<EvaLuaTe> ok, it's a small package, that's true, but still...
<Rhonda> I can't, I have a kid. :P
<EvaLuaTe> btw, don't DD's or DM's have any place where to post if they are going to be inactive for some time?
<EvaLuaTe> that would be really helpful to know when someone isn't going to answer for some amount of time...
<Rhonda> There is debian-private because some people don't like to have it published that their house is empty for a while.
<EvaLuaTe> lol
<EvaLuaTe> well, if someone isn't going to be active for debian doesn't necesarily mean their house is going to be empty. Anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait for these couple of weeks until the debian guys will know for sure that he isn't active...
<EvaLuaTe> Rhonda, thanks for your friendly support, I appreciate it! :-)
<Rhonda> The people potentially able to upload for you do have access to the debian-private mailinglist, just in case.
<fta> siretart, hi, do you plan to update mplayer in natty? (needed since the ffmpeg update)
<kklimonda> ScottK: I haven't had much luck getting atkmm1.6 uploaded into Ubuntu (first ubuntu-sponsors, which I subscribed at Sebestian's request, were unsubscribed and then bug has been invalidated ;) ) but I got access to the pkg-gnome svn so, as soon as I finish reading subversion tutorial, I'll upload it there and ask for sponsorship..
<kklimonda> Sebastien* ;)
<micahg> ari-tczew: do you need any help with bug 674908?  (wondering why -sponsors is subscribed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 674908 in meta-gnome2 (Ubuntu) "Merge meta-gnome2 1:2.30+6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674908
<ari-tczew> micahg: I would to wait for review from ubuntu desktop team since I'm not familiar with gnome* related packages, but I would help in merging.
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but why is -sponsors subscribed?
<ari-tczew> micahg: hope that they won't forget about this one
<ebroder> ari-tczew: -sponsors should be subscribed when there's a specific task for a sponsor to take, which there isn't in this case, so I don't think they should be subscribed
<micahg> ari-tczew: -sponsors is when something is ready for upload (and you already have upload rights for the package), subscribing the desktop team as you did should be sufficient to ask for review without subscribing -sponsors
<ari-tczew> micahg, ebroder: if you feel wrong with it, please unsubscribe
<micahg> ari-tczew: done, BTW, don't get me wrong, asking for review is good
<ari-tczew> micahg: no problem. if you are interested in cleaning SQ, please help with older requests
<micahg> ari-tczew: already have :)
<micahg> for universe at least
<ari-tczew> micahg: one?
<micahg> ari-tczew: I think I've reviewed 2 already, and commented on the oldest one
 * micahg needs to file a bug that the sponsorships should be sorted in teh order of when -sponsors is subscribed, not when the bug is filed
<ari-tczew> micahg: why?
<micahg> ari-tczew: a bug could be 5 yrs old and just got a fix added, it should be noted that it's not an old sponsorship request, but a recent one
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm still waiting for clarify procedures of reviewing old bugs to sponsoring. I've been blamed when I unsubscribed sponsors in 2 out-of-dated debdiffs.
<ScottK> kklimonda: OK.  Those packages are a bit out of my area of expertise, but if you get stuck, let me know and I'll figure out how to push.
<ScottK> Thanks
<micahg> ari-tczew: I don't have a general answer, but if you'd like to discuss the individual cases later, maybe we can figure out why
<bdrung> micahg: patches are welcome! gimme some python code that takes a lp bug and returns a date when ubuntu-sponsors was added, and will do the rest to get the column "time in queue"
<micahg> bdrung: heh, maybe after I learn a little more python :)
 * micahg can file the bug at least
<bdrung> micahg: IIRC there is already a bug for it.
<ebroder> bdrung: Hmm, I think I know how to do that...
<bdrung> ebroder: show me code! :)
<ebroder> bdrung: I'll look at it when I get home from work
<ebroder> or maybe the next time I'm waiting for a build...
<bdrung> ebroder: then please compile eclipse or openjdk or libreoffice ;)
 * micahg wants to fix the ARM FTBFS for eclipse
<kklimonda> rm -rf eclipse fixes all issues I have with it ;)
<micahg> kklimonda: one of my goals this cycle is to make sure my packageset builds on ARM as well
<micahg> eclipse is the only one broken at the moment
<ajmitch> micahg: how much diskspace does eclipse take to build?
<micahg> ajmitch: idr, several GB
<ajmitch> that must be problematic
<ScottK> ajmitch: If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
<ajmitch> as well as a lack of RAM
<ajmitch> ScottK: just trying to get an idea of how much space needs to be available for builds in general
<ScottK> ajmitch: qt4-x11 wants ~8GB of space to build.
<ajmitch> how have you managed to build that on the boxes you have?
<ajmitch> building on NFS?
<micahg> Firefox and Thunderbird need about 4GB
 * ScottK once tried (Gutsy era) to build eclipse on a system with 256MB of ram.  It didn't end wall.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I bought a 16B usb stick and mounted it as /var/cache.
<ajmitch> ScottK: right
 * ajmitch wonders if building on NFS is viable for those ARM boxes
<ScottK> apachelogger's icecc magic is working so I'm actually doing a test build of qt4-x11 on arm right now sharing the build across three boxes.
<ajmitch> I'm still undecided about the best way to do builds - I'd like to have sbuild & lvm
<ebroder> bdrung: Fine, you got me. The code should look roughly like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/532617/
<ScottK> For this other set the number of potential users is smaller, so we can be a bit more wreckless.
<ebroder> bdrung: It's not foolproof - in particular it seems to miss bugs where -sponsors was subscribed a long time ago
<ebroder> And it should probably be genericized in obvious ways
<bdrung> ajmitch: 3 GB on disk (and 2 GB ram)
 * ajmitch has a 4GB empty file to be used as a loopback LVM volume for some testing of that
<Quintasan> ScottK: his icecc magic works? I'd like to test that out on my boxes too, care to pastebin me your config?
<ScottK> Quintasan: This config is very specific to the situation in question.  He's got the hooks on LP somewhere.
<ScottK> ebroder: Please add work items for any backports related tools work you plan in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-backports-n-bof
<Quintasan> ScottK: thanks, I'll bug him about it sometime.
<ScottK> ebroder: I'm really interested in seeing backports requests integrated into the current sync-helper script.
<ebroder> ScottK: Ok, I'll try to make that a priority
<ebroder> bdrung: Oh, also, you can't get a bug's activity collection if you're connected anonymously. Does the queue have credentials when it runs?
<ScottK> ebroder: Thanks.  I think that would help a lot with latency of request processing.
<bdrung> ebroder: yes
<micahg> ScottK: well, I think a separate tool is better (or at least a config option to choose) just because the AA might only have time to do one or the other
 * micahg might be totally off here
<ScottK> micahg: I agree there should be a switch, but having it integrated into the same tool so it is part of their normal work flow is important.
<ajmitch> micahg: adding it as an option would probably be preferable, just to separate them
<micahg> ScottK: ok, that sounds good, I can see where sometimes Debian imports would take precedence over backports
<ScottK> micahg: Certainly.
<ScottK> ebroder will make us something wonderful.
 * micahg loves the idea of syncing to -backports after FF :)
 * ajmitch needs to get the other side of things done - a standard requestbackport script
<ebroder> ajmitch: I'll give you that WI when I add my own to the blueprint
<ajmitch> ebroder: it was in the gobby doc, wasn't it?
<ebroder> Yeah, but those didn't make it onto the blueprint
<ajmitch> right
<ScottK> Because the guy who slammed out the blueprint was really tired when he did it.
<ScottK> Feel free to complain to him next time you see him.
<cjwatson> micahg: running sync-helper normally takes about 5-10 minutes
<cjwatson> micahg: I wouldn't worry about expanding the time it takes
<micahg> cjwatson: oh, wow, cool :)
<ajmitch> Will do, then I'll have to buy him a beer for doing all the other stuff
<ScottK> (in the mean time, please sign up for stuff you will/might do)
<cjwatson> and that's *after* it's built up a little bit.  running it every working day, maybe a couple of minutes tops
<cjwatson> this is why syncs happen quickly these days
<highvoltage> hi! I need some help.
<highvoltage> I want to swallow a pill that will make me know C
<highvoltage> anyone know where I can get one?
 * micahg sees if there's one in the Matrix
<ajmitch> highvoltage: put the K&R C book into a blender, mix well, swallow
<cjwatson> the C99 standard wouldn't hurt either :)
<highvoltage> hmm, I have such a book but it is 12762km away :/
<cjwatson> K&R second edition is more readable but it doesn't hurt to have a bit of C99 familiarity these days
<cjwatson> highvoltage: how basic is your lack of understanding?  people seem to either get pointers or they don't, but perhaps your problem is higher-level than that?
<cjwatson> fta,micahg,chrisccoulson: BTW I'd just like to say, I love Firefox 4.  Thanks for the ubuntu-mozilla-daily packaging!
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson, you're welcome.
<micahg> cjwatson: chrisccoulson has been working tirelessly on it since the close of Maverick
<cjwatson> my wife has a bit of a "UI change is BAD mkay" attitude so I haven't managed to convert her yet
<chrisccoulson> i'll be uploading FF4.0 to natty by tomorrow morning
<cjwatson> ooh
<chrisccoulson> or maybe this evening, if i can get it tested before i go to bed
<cjwatson> I'm very impressed that I basically no longer have performance issues
<micahg> cjwatson: we'll have beta 7 in the firefox-next PPA if you'd like some stability as well
<micahg> for pre-natty systems
<cjwatson> ooh, sounds like a plan.
<cjwatson> might upgrade to natty soon anyway though
<highvoltage> cjwatson: well, basically, my understanding doesn't get much better than scripting languages. also, I learned BASIC when I was very young and it screwed me up for life. :)
<highvoltage> (so yes, no pointers for me)
<cjwatson> well, after basic syntactic stuff, ramming pointers into your head is the next absolutely necessary bit
<cjwatson> using whatever metaphor is accurate and helps most
<micahg> http://www.xkcd.com/138/
<highvoltage> micahg: nice, I point that at people regularly :)
<achiang> highvoltage: here's another vote for K&R 2nd edition. it's quite readable, IMO
<cjwatson> also make liberal use of POSIX, which is online
<achiang> highvoltage: this essay may also inspire you - http://norvig.com/21-days.html (Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-16
<RoAkSoAx> hi all... Is there a way to list in what dependencies should a package depends (instead of just listing its current dependencies). Or, how can I know what dependencies does a library package needs?
<RoAkSoAx> or how do I know what should a library link agaisnt?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: What problem are you trying to solve?
<ScottK> Ah, i see you solved it on another channel.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: well it is not really solved actually...
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: OK.  What's the problem?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: because of the new linker thingy pacemaker fails to build
<ScottK> OK.  What's the error?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: let me grab the log
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: this is the error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/532713/
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: complete build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59133765/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.pacemaker_1.0.9.1%2Bhg15626-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> The other's I've seen gave a more useful error.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: and in maverick, it built but showed this warning: "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: symbol sort_rsc_index used by debian/pacemaker/usr/lib/libpengine.so.3.0.0 found in none of the libraries."
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: So you need to figure out what packages provide those symbols.
<ScottK> Right, that was unneeded indirect linking.
<ScottK> (in theory anyway)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: What I would do is put the binaries that it build depends on into http://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/mole/seedsymbols and see which one provides the symbols in question.
<ScottK> There's probably a more elegant way to do it.
<ScottK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols is probably helpful, but is looking at the problem from the opposite direction.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: yeah well, those symbels are provide by pacemaker itself (since the package is not yet split on a package per library)
<ScottK> All the more reason it should be split then.
<ScottK> You should just have to add them to the linker then.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: yes I already have a diff with the split, but still experiencing the build failure, so this is why I was wondering if there was a way to see which library provided the symbols by looking to the library itself
<ScottK> I'm sure there is.
<ScottK> man ld to get started I believe.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: i think i just found it with objdump -t
<RoAkSoAx> i'll give it a try
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> That sounds right.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: alright, thanks for the help. :) I'll let you know about the outcome
<achiang> RoAkSoAx: sorry for the wild goose chase earlier
<RoAkSoAx> achiang: It's fine :)! it had the same changes of working as of not working so it was worth to try
<RoAkSoAx> achiang: ScottK ok this is sample output of objdump: 0000000000000000      D  *UND*0000000000000000              resource_location
<ScottK> Right, so that's not gonna be much help I guess.
<ScottK> Sorry, it's a bit late and I'd have to do a bunch of research to be more help.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: that's fine. :) I appreciate the help though. I'll ping you tomorrow to see if we can get this resolved :)
<RoAkSoAx> achiang ScottK: btw.. could it be because of missing (non existant) .pc files?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: ask me a Python question.  Then maybe I'll know.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: will do when I have one :)
<achiang> RoAkSoAx: i don't think it's because of missing .pc files; i still kinda think it's an optimizer problem
<RoAkSoAx> achiang: yeah, I guess we'll need to find were to actually make that work :)
<achiang> ScottK: here's a python question - why am I seeing this on maverick? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/532774/
<ScottK> Not sure.
<achiang> ScottK: i was being a little facetious. but the question is real - that error seems to point to a python interpreter error, not anything a script could have done, right?
<ScottK> Probably now, but it's not 100% clear from that if it's Python itself, usb-creator-gtk, or something in between them that's at fault.
<ScottK> now/not
<ebroder> achiang: Could also be an extension module if there are any in the mix
<achiang> ebroder: hm, what would be an example of an extension module?
<kunal> facing an issue while using debuild command
<kunal>  dh_install -a
<kunal> dh_install: libomxil-bellagio-dev missing files (usr/share/pkgconfig/*), aborting
<kunal> make: *** [binary-arch] Error 2
<kunal> dpkg-buildpackage: error: /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch gave error exit status 2
<ebroder> achiang: Err, a C module, instead of a pure-python module
<achiang> ebroder: hm, ok. it seems possible... usb-creator calls out to dbus and calls syslinux and/or grub at times
<ebroder> achiang: Yeah, dbus seems like an obvious culprit. syslinux and grub are done just by shelling out, so those shouldn't be at fault
 * achiang is trying to create a CLI frontend to usb-creator, and is having some success, but keeps getting strange errors during the "installing bootloader" phase
<ebroder> achiang: Have you tried turning on apport and looking at the backtraces it gets?
<achiang> ebroder: hm. i've never thought about that... i must admit i don't really know what apport does.
<achiang> ebroder: i've been reading the log file in ~/.cache/usb-creator.log
<ebroder> Or you could just run your frontend under gdb or something :-P
<achiang> and sprinkling print statements around...
<achiang> ebroder: i guess what i'd need to do is run gdb /usr/bin/python
<ebroder> Try gdb --args ./whatever --you-were running-before
<achiang> and set args script bla bla bla
<achiang> i've never tried running python under gdb before. it's worth a shot
<ebroder> I guess I don't know if gdb can interpret shebangs. Wouldn't surprise me, but your way sounds better
<ebroder> achiang: It's not very useful if your problems are in Python-land, but segfaults don't happen in Python-land
<achiang> nod
<achiang> ebroder: well, i think i have two problems, the first one being that usb-creator uses threads and i'm not tall enough to use threads.
<ebroder> achiang: Hmm...in general I'm not either; the only thing I know to do with threads is "t a a bt"
<achiang> i think it's time for bed. or rather, something not related to computers
<siretart> fta: sorry? natty already ships an rc4 prelease. I should rather look into getting rc4 finally out
<dholbach> good morning!
<apachelogger> ScottK: for kde test building we probably can apply the stuff I once recommended for quicker building on kubuntu-devel (cowdancer, chroot with base deps etc.) + hook into the build process and prevent deb creation, since that is of little interest I suppose
 * apachelogger hugs dholbach good morning
 * dholbach hugs apacheloggerback
<iulian> Morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hi iulian
<zyga> hi
<zyga> I'm working on my own application + set of ubuntu packages
<zyga> I currently work in a ppa
<zyga> should I be using -ubuntu0 suffix?
<zyga> someone just recommended that I should have -0ubuntu1~zyga
<ulysses> Hello, could you look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hupnp please?
<apachelogger> zyga: hi. in particular you should be using something like -0ubuntu1~zyga1. that way, if the version at hand gets included into Ubuntu, the Ubuntu version will supersede installation of your PPA version
<apachelogger> 1.0-0ubuntu1~foo1 < 1.0-0ubuntu1
<zyga> apachelogger, thanks
<apachelogger> zyga: you're very welcome :)
<zyga> apachelogger, I did that but the build process complained the maintainer address is not @ubuntu.com
<zyga> apachelogger, I used my @linaro.org address and changed 0ubuntu1 to 0linaro1
<zyga> (actually I just noticed I used -linaro0, not -0linaro0)
<zyga> apachelogger, does that seem valid?
<apachelogger> no :)
<apachelogger> dpkg --compare-versions 1-linaro0 lt 1-0ubuntu1; echo $?
<apachelogger> returns 1, i.e. your version would not be lower than the ubuntu version
<apachelogger> dpkg --compare-versions 1-linaro0 lt 1-0; echo $?
<apachelogger> also not lower than a debian version
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> so I should stick to 0ubuntu1 and not worry about the email addres warning?
<zyga> (or perhaps I could use my ubuntu address for that)
<apachelogger> zyga: ignoring should be just fine
 * sebner pets apachelogger 
<apachelogger> AFAIK the warning is only there so that ubuntu devs do not upload ubuntu specific packages without ubuntu maintainer (for which we have a policy)
 * apachelogger hugs sebner
<apachelogger> ulysses: that should be a version with ubuntu1 really
<zyga> apachelogger, so my packages should have whatever-0ubuntu1~zyga1
<zyga> apachelogger, and I should increase zyga2, zyga3 and so on, without touching the ubuntu part
<zyga> apachelogger, correct
<apachelogger> zyga: exactly
<zyga> apachelogger, thanks
<zyga> apachelogger, are you familiar with lauchpad build recipes?
<zyga> apachelogger, I have a control file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~linaro-infrastructure/linaro-python-json/packaging/annotate/head%3A/changelog and a recipe https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-infrastructure/+recipe/linaro-python-json-daily-build
<zyga> apachelogger, it seems that the version is not taken from the changelog but from the recipe script
<apachelogger> ulysses: reviewed. is this your first package?
<apachelogger> zyga: recipes add a new changelog entry
<zyga> apachelogger, ah
<zyga> apachelogger, so that explains it
<apachelogger> changing 0+{revno} to 0+{revno}-0ubuntu1~zyga{revno:packaging} should do the tick
<apachelogger> (I think)
<zyga> let me try
<zyga> apachelogger, is there any reference to the syntax and variables you can use there?
<zyga> 0+, isn't that going to override the package version that I already have (?)
<apachelogger> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes
<apachelogger> zyga: depends on the version you have ;)
<zyga> apachelogger, 1.0.0~alpha
<apachelogger> just use dpkg --compare-versions
<zyga> ideally the PPA version should be that + the revno
<apachelogger> zyga: 0<1
<zyga> and be more recent
<apachelogger> that 0+n has an effect as if the were n < 1 :)
<zyga> so the PPA daily build version will always be smaller than non-daily version?
<zyga> (if I ever dput that that is)
<zyga> should it not be the other way around?
<apachelogger> zyga: with the current recipe, yes
<apachelogger> then you will need to change your recipe ;)
<zyga> I'm asking about the principle, what it _should_ look like
<ulysses> apachelogger: yes, I only made some rebuild previously
<apachelogger> zyga: PPA should be 1.0.0~alpha1-0ubuntu1~zyga1  - a daily should be 1.0.0~alpha1+{revno}-0ubuntu1~zyga{revno:packaging}
<apachelogger> ulysses: very good packaging for a first package I must say
<ulysses> apachelogger: Riddell helped mi a lot
<apachelogger> ah, cheating, I see ;)
<zyga> apachelogger, can I use {debupstream} instead of 1.0.0~alpha1?
<zyga> (assuming that's my upstream version
<apachelogger> zyga: yes
<dholbach> Laney, directhex, hyperair: did you get Richard Lee's mail? did anyone of you comment?
<hyperair> what mail?
<hyperair> i don't remember seeing any such mail though
<hyperair> dholbach: where was it posted to?
<dholbach> your ubuntu.com email address :)
<hyperair> huh
<hyperair> O_o
<dholbach> shall I forward it to you again?
<hyperair> yes please
<dholbach> hang on
<hyperair> what's the title?
<dholbach> "(Basic) Mono packaging guide for Debian and Ubuntu"
<hyperair> oh that!
<hyperair> wasn't that some months back?
<hyperair> i think someone might have replied.
<dholbach> forwarded again
<hyperair> lemme check
<dholbach> 12 days ago :)
<hyperair> dholbach: i guess time has been moving too fast over here >_>
<dholbach> yeah, sounds like it ;-)
<directhex> dholbach: just running through the instructions
<dholbach> directhex, hyperair: I can't comment on these, so if you can help Richard to make this really useful everybody would be happy :)
<ulysses> apachelogger: is this correct? Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7.3.16), libqt4-dev (>= 4:4.7.0)
<hyperair> hmm "Note that it tracks the *runtime* dependencies not the *build* dependencies" seems a bit vague.
<hyperair> dholbach: are people supposed to have read anything before the guide?
<dholbach> hyperair, I don't know
<dholbach> hyperair, Richard talked to me about it since he wanted to document how he went about doing mono packaging (and he didn't find docs for it) and because I have no clue about mono packaging, I suggested to talk to you guys :)
<hyperair> dholbach: i use http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ as my holy CLI packaging bible.
<hyperair> but maybe it's a tad bit too wordy for a beginner's guide..
<dholbach> I don't know if Richard knew about this
<dholbach> it'd be really great if any of you could get in touch with him 0:-)
<hyperair> dholbach: is he on irc?
<hyperair> directhex: wasn't there another email... to pkg-cli-*-team list about a cli packaging guide?
<directhex> hyperair: yes
<hyperair> directhex: who was it who did that one?
<directhex> hyperair: policy guide is very detailed, but not a great starting point for all. especially the md->autofoo stuff
<hyperair> directhex: actually i'm clueless about the MD part.
<hyperair> directhex: i've never actually used MD before, aside from starting it up and then closing it again
<dholbach> hyperair, directhex, Laney: meet rhlee
<dholbach> rhlee: meet hyperair, directhex and Laney :)
<hyperair> aha.
<dholbach> so hyperair mentioned http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ and something that was discussed on a pkg-cli mailing list
<rhlee> hyperair + directhex + Laney: hiya guys
<hyperair> i can't seem to find the email. hmm
<hyperair> hiya rhlee
<dholbach> I don't think I can contribute much to the discussion, but thought it'd be worthwhile bringing you in touch :)
<hyperair> yeah thanks
<hyperair> so anyway, rhlee, i was wondering whether people were supposed to have read something before reading this proposed document
<directhex> replied
<directhex> sorry, been busy
<rhlee> directhex: np
 * hyperair didn't recv anything though
<rhlee> yes, the ubuntu packaging guide was a recommended prequisite for the guide
<rhlee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<hyperair> rhlee: so the readers would know the difference between runtime vs build deps then?
<rhlee> i would assume so, or it that too much of an assumption?
<zyga> when packaging python libraries can I somehow simplify the duplication of depends and build-depends
<zyga> my package has virtually identical depends as build-depends
<rhlee> hyperair + directhex + Laney: fyi the guide I provisionally published is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Mono
<hyperair> rhlee: i'm not sure, i haven't actually touched the packaging guide for a long time. these days i refer to the debian policy manual if i need reference
<directhex> zyga: i assume there's some pythony way of auto-tracking depends, like shlibs:depends
<zyga> directhex, there is python:Depends
<zyga> directhex, but it's not very helpful in my case, it does not pick up anything I have (I don't know how it works)
<hyperair> rhlee: well apart from that i don't see anything wrong with the guide except for minor spelling issues.
<directhex> hyperair: cli:depends is in there, which would lead to better packages than the occasional interloper in the archive
<rhlee> hyperair: so I probably should elaborate more on the difference between runtime and build dependencies?
<hyperair> rhlee: that's up to you. i figure the standard packaging guide should already mention it, right?
<hyperair> if that's so then fine, otherwise you might want to, yeah.
<hyperair> rhlee: also i've just corrected your spelling on the wiki page.
<hyperair> and... are you that afraid of spam? =p
<rhlee> yes, the standard packaging guide does mention it
<rhlee> hyperair: thanks for the corrections
<hyperair> alright, then i think it's fine to leave it be like that.
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> thanks for doing the documentation
<hyperair> like directhex mentioned, this should lead to cli packages of better quality in the archive.
<rhlee> hyperair: np, re my email address: if it safe to leave it in properly?
<rhlee> hyperair + directhex: thanks for your help
<rhlee> directhex: got your email will go through it
<hyperair> rhlee: it depends on how much you trust your spam filters, i guess.
<hyperair> rhlee: i trust gmail's.
<rhlee> hyperair: I'll probably leave as is then
<hyperair> rhlee: and either way my email is all over the place, specifically wherever Maintainer: is displayed, or changelog entries.
<rhlee> hyperair: i guess I can alway get canonical to change my email address if there is too much spam
<zyga> apachelogger, thanks, you've helped me to build two packages :-)
<zyga> I have a source tree with a script.py, how can I remove the extension when creating a debian package?
<Rhonda> I would need to do a SRU to lucid for ejabberd because of bug #596676
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 596676 in ejabberd (Ubuntu) "Don't send error stanza as reply to error stanza (EJAB-930)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596676
<Rhonda> I take it the version should be 2.1.2-2lucid1, what to put into the target of the upload? just lucid? lucid-updates?
<Laney> lucid-proposed
<geser> Rhonda: as version 2.1.2-2.1
<Rhonda> geser: Why -2.1?
<Rhonda> Wouldn't that hint it was pulled in unmodified from Debian?
<Laney> adding ubuntu0.1 is common
<Laney> but really it's only necessary to make sure there is an upgrade path
<geser> Laney is right, it should be -2ubuntu0.1 (I should do more SRUs to remember it better :) )
<Rhonda> Given that maverick has 2.1.5-3 I don't think there is a need for 0.1
<Rhonda> erm, 2.1.5-2
<geser> that's just the usual versioning scheme: add .1 (and ubuntu0 if needed)
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update%20the%20packaging describes the versioning scheme used for security updates but it also works for SRUs (and is linked from the SRU page)
<Rhonda> Right. But adding ubuntu1 also fulfills the requirements of "be newer than the version being patched, but earlier than any version in the development branch" :)
<geser> I just wanted to point you to the usual SRU versioning scheme, I don't know if the uploads gets rejected if you use one that also works but is different
<Rhonda> hmm, a #redirect ion wiki.u.c/SRU would be helpful
<Rhonda> oh, seems to be there
<Rhonda> Actually I even had chosen to go with 2.1.2-2lucid1  :)
<geser> else ask our bot (!sru) it knows many things :)
<ebroder> Rhonda: 2.1.2-2lucid1 would be a lower version number than 2.1.2-2ubuntu1, which is what maverick would have had if there had been an Ubuntu-only change. That's why you add the 0ubuntu
<ebroder> Err...wait. Never mind. That particular case would have been fine
<ebroder> But that's the sort of thing you're watching for
<Rhonda> ebroder: It being lower is the whole point of it. :)
<ebroder> I think what I meant to say is that putting it in the same form means you don't have to think about whether it's higher or lower
<Rhonda> erm, if there already would had been a -2ubuntu1 in lucid, of course I'd bump it to ubuntu2
 * ebroder goes and gets coffee
<Rhonda> But right, schemas are a good thing to reduce discussions like this. Thanks. ;)
 * Rhonda . o O ( and editing another page, removing jaunty and adding maverick )
<Rhonda> What will happen after release of zippy zebra?
<jmarsden> Rhonda: We can start using letters from the Greek or Russian alphabet? :)
<achiang> move to a different charset?
<Rhonda> That will be 17.04, if I calculated right â¦
<geser> Rhonda: perhaps we can use till then Unicode in version strings
<Rhonda> You'll have to get that past manoj. Somehow I doubt that.
<Rhonda> And I fear there are no animal names starting with unicode letters.
<geser> or do it like ms excel: after Z comes AA :)
<Rhonda> welsh names? :)
<directhex> Rhonda: we could use ð¸
<directhex> that'd be an awesome release name
<Rhonda> I only see <?>
<directhex> geser: not just excel: also /dev/sd*
<directhex> Rhonda: well, by 2017 your font will include that glyph
<Rhonda> directhex: haha
<directhex> Rhonda: important letters like GRINNING CAT FACE WITH SMILING EYES must be added to all fonts
<Rhonda> directhex: Take this: "
<Rhonda> Edvard Munch wouldU+1F631 at Unicode 6 t-shirtsEdvard Munch wouldU+1F631 at Unicode 6 t-shirts
<Rhonda> bleah, stupid paste
<Rhonda> directhex: http://www.zazzle.com/Lalobee
<directhex> Rhonda: FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR ?
<Rhonda> yep
<Rhonda> Actually I really think I should order me my own shirt. :)
<directhex> geser: yes device nodes go that high: Disk /dev/sdai: 23998.3 GB, 23998331092992 bytes
<Rhonda> One of the most geeky ones, to be honest.
<ari-tczew> if package has depends with [linux-any], it will works?
<geser> should, I know I filed bugs about it and if I remember correctly they got fixed
<ari-tczew> geser: but you mean Build-Depends or Depends?
<geser> Build-Depends as this was a problem for the buildds
<geser> Depends are handled by apt itself so should be less an issue
<ari-tczew> geser: aha, ok
<cjwatson> not to spoil the fun but I think Mark said we'd just cycle (though he might change / have changed his mind)
<geser> and if I'm not mistaken [arch] isn't supported in Depends (but I have to check the Debian policy to be sure), but our fellow DDs might know it too
<cjwatson> it is, fairly recently
<cjwatson> provided the package is not Architecture: all
<cjwatson> build-depends on [linux-any] were fixed - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-buildd/+bug/604981
<cjwatson> I *think* it's basically OK now
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/669404 (Packages-arch-specific) is still open but not a major problem for most people
<geser> the upload part for linux-any got also fixed (bug 605002)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605002 in Soyuz "Soyuz doesn't accept upload with "Architecture: linux-any"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605002
<cjwatson> indeed
<ari-tczew> ok, I'm only asking
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: ^^
<kaushal> Hi
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<kaushal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/379329
<kaushal> It says it has been fixed This bug was fixed in the package openssh - 1:5.2p1-1ubuntu1
<kaushal> is this version available in hardy 8.04
<kaushal> please suggest
<ScottK> No.  It's not.
<kaushal> oh i see
<kaushal> so i need to add Ciphers aes128-ctr,aes256-ctr,arcfour256,arcfour,aes128-cbc,aes256-cbc
<kaushal> in sshd_config and ssh_config
<kaushal> ?
<kaushal> and restart the sshd daemon
<kaushal> as per that bug instruction
<ScottK> I didn't read the bug, but if it gives a work around, you'll likely need it.
<kaushal> ok
* You're now known as ubuntulog_
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<apachelogger> ulysses: about the build-dep change ... it is correct, and maybe not, if the code really only works with Qt >= 4.7 it is correct, if it is not the minimum requirement it is less correct (still good enough for me though :))
<apachelogger> zyga: groovy :D
<sebner> apachelogger: so, how did the test went?
<sebner> *go
<ricotz> sebner, hi
<sebner> ricotz: hola
<apachelogger> sebner: not terribly well
<ricotz> sebner, could you help with a autotools problem?
 * apachelogger is targetting ballmer peak right now -> free work hours from apachelogger this evening
<sebner> apachelogger: don't worry, the next text surely comes :D
<apachelogger> unfortunately :P
<sebner> :D :D :D
<ari-tczew> could someone ping me?
<sebner> ari-tczew: ping
<ari-tczew> sebner: could you again ping in next 10 seconds?
<sebner> ari-tczew: ping
<ari-tczew> sebner: I'm trying to reproduce bug in indicator-applet. I have to minimalize to tray.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: ping on chat, here :P
<Rhonda> that's hilight, not ping
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you could use two different irc apps and ping yourself in an self-created channel
<sebner> Rhonda: ah!
<ari-tczew> sebner, bdrung, Rhonda: That's right, my fault. I should say highlight. Sorry.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: could you then highlight me again? ;)
<micahg> ari-tczew: you can have ubottu do it
<Rhonda> I didn't hilight you before, and like bdrung noticed, you could actually do it for yourself with a second client, and using a test channel instead of in here.
<bdrung> (that's what i do for debugging)
<Rhonda> Actually when I have to test something with irssi which I maintain I fire up several instances and /join #randomfoo
<ari-tczew> micahg: good point
<ari-tczew> micahg: but I'm not sure whether he can hightlight me with delay :>
<micahg> ari-tczew: which can be done in a PM as well, if you need a channel though, what the others have suggested is probably best
<bdrung> ari-tczew: and you probably don't want your debugging stuff logged ;)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: in this case I don't care
<Rhonda> Actually we do :)
<ari-tczew> don't be inflexible ...
<ari-tczew> you can include this one to your report about my bad behavior!
<micahg> ari-tczew: keep in mind there are 194 people in this channel that see all your tests
<Rhonda> Actually such kind of responses to well-meant advices isn't really helping your case  :/
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: very terrible. going back to my activities...
<bdrung> ebroder: i included http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/532617/ and  it covers only 75% of the bugs. what should we do with merge requests?
<ebroder> bdrung: for merge requests I'm assuming you just want to use when the request was created, no?
<micahg> bdrung: separate section?  some sponsors aren't comfortable with them yet
<ebroder> bdrung: The MPs that get listed on the queue currently are using the date the proposal was created, so that seems fine
<bdrung> ebroder: MPs?
<ebroder> merge proposals
<bdrung> ebroder, micahg: please have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/
<micahg> bdrung: it's not grabbing the time for ubuntu-security-sponsors subscriptions
<micahg> bdrung: also, can we sort by time in queue (not sure if ASC or DESC is more appropriate) with unknown going to the back of the queue?
<bdrung> that's the current patch: http://pastebin.com/1Kfvyatn
<micahg> bdrung: when I load the page, it's sorting by Date created ASC
<bdrung> micahg: you can click on the column
<ebroder> bdrung: Try changing line 56 of the diff to something like if activity.message in ["added subscriber Ubuntu Sponsors Team", "added subscriber Ubuntu Security Sponsors Team"]:
<ebroder> or whatever they call themselves
<micahg> bdrung: right, I know, but shouldn't the default reflect the more accurate order of time in queue vs date bug is created?
<ScottK> It should be sortable the same ways an LP bug list is sortable.
<ebroder> I'm having a hard time figuring out how to make an "unknown" value sort as being in the queue longer than anything else
<micahg> ScottK: I think all the columns are sortable, my question was what the default view should be
<ebroder> Maybe defaulting to 1970-0101?
<ScottK> OK.
<ari-tczew> geser: could you update also queue of task on Agenda?
<ari-tczew> 2 requests have been added without number.
<micahg> ebroder: well, maybe an s/-// and and then do a numeric comparison?
<ebroder> micahg: sorttable.js can already deal with fields in a date format
<micahg> ebroder: oh, cool
<ebroder> but it guesses teh type of a column based on the first non-blank row
<micahg> ebroder: can you hint as to the column type?
<ebroder> Not that that matters, because a purely lexical sort would work, too
<ebroder> micahg: Not that I see
<geser> ari-tczew: done
<bdrung> ebroder: no, the unknown items are at the wrong end
<ebroder> micahg, bdrung: Oh wait, hmm...it looks like you can set a sorttable_customkey attribute on the <td> html tag
<ebroder> So for unknown rows, do <td sorttable_customkey="0">unknown</td>
<ebroder> Or thereabouts
<bdrung> <td sorttable_customkey="0">unknown</td> doesn't seam to work
<ebroder> I'm probably mis-reading the code
<bdrung> now it doesn't sort it correctly
<ebroder> oh - it's probably deciding that the column is numeric instead of dates
<ebroder> What about sorttable_customkey="1970-01-01"?
<ebroder> http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/sorttable/#customkeys is what I'm looking at, btw
<bdrung> ebroder: yes, that works
<bdrung> ebroder: but that's not valid xhtml
<ebroder> bdrung: Yeah, that thought occurred to me. Not sure if there's a great answer for that
<micahg> bdrung: what's not?
<ebroder> micahg: Any of sorttable's custom attributes
<micahg> ebroder: because of the underscore?
<ebroder> micahg: Because XHTML specifies what attributes an element can have
<micahg> here's the bug for that: http://www.kryogenix.org/bugs/sorttable/data-attributes.html
<micahg> bdrung: use the XHTML transitional DTD?
<bdrung> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
<bdrung> micahg: IIRC xhtm 1.1 doesn't have a transitional dtd
<micahg> no, I guess not
<ebroder> Downgrade?
<bdrung> why not fix it by getting the unknown ones from the list?
<micahg> bdrung: I think they were added before there were logged
<micahg> except for the security sponsors one
<ebroder> micahg: Actually, my theory is that it relates to the ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors -> ubuntu-sponsors transitions
<micahg> we could just unsub/resub and bump to front of queue?
<ebroder> Look at the 4th from the bottom on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/44609/+activity for instance
<micahg> ebroder: yeah, that seems to be part of it
<ebroder> It's a queue not a stack! :-P
<ebroder> (At least in theory...)
<micahg> ebroder: hence I said front and not top :)
<micahg> depending on how you look at it
<bdrung> ebroder: it's a queue with random access :P
<micahg> or back I guess if you're going from the oldest (which I don't think most people do)
<bdrung> sponsors bunch :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-17
<bdrung> ebroder, micahg: are you happy with the result: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bdrung/sponsoring/ ?
<ebroder> bdrung: Looks good to me, modulo minor whining about sorttable not sorting the time in queue column correctly, but I still think it's an awesome improvement
<bdrung> ebroder: fix sorttable ;)
<bcurtiswx> an error like http://paste.ubuntu.com/533289/ , would I try to fix something in libindicate.patch or configure.ac ?
<bcurtiswx> i.e. what file should I be looking at those error lines
<bdrung> bcurtiswx: at configure.ac
<bcurtiswx> bdrung, configure.ac doesn't have a line 597
<micahg> bdrung: yes, looks good
<bdrung> bcurtiswx: that may be the reason why it failed to apply
<bcurtiswx> bdrung, hmm, k thx
<bcurtiswx> whats the proper way to edit hunks in a patch?  i found the problem and know the issue
<bcurtiswx> manually edit the patch, or is there some other commands that are proper
<micahg> bcurtiswx: in Lucid and later there should be edit-patch
<bcurtiswx> is it self-explanatory ?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: if it's source format 3, there's quilt
<micahg> bcurtiswx: there should be a man page :)
<bcurtiswx> well i know man pages can be very confusing :P
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: you can edit it manually and then use editdiff
<kklimonda> by hand*
<micahg> kklimonda: there are tools for patch editing which make it easier
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: or maybe it's rediff for hand edited diffs and editdiff just wraps around it - see man editdiff :)
<micahg> kklimonda: hmmm...that's a nice tool though :)
<micahg> assuming you're working in one file
<kklimonda> micahg: well, his question was about editing hunks in a patch itself :)
<bcurtiswx> kklimonda, so if i have the diff that worked before and the new diff.. rediff will work on those two?
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: no, I don't think it's that smart :)
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: rediff most likely fixes stuff like offsets etc.
<bcurtiswx> yeah, im reading the man on it..
<bcurtiswx> Then run rediff, telling it the name of the original diff file and the name of the one you have edited
<bcurtiswx> so you need the original (before edits)...
<bcurtiswx> then rename the edited one?
<nigelb> wouldn't there be a .rej file?
<bcurtiswx> nigelb,  I don't see a .rej file
<nigelb> bcurtiswx: ok, I think that's when you force the patch to apply.  Apologies :)
<bcurtiswx> nigelb, no no, thanks for the help :)
<nigelb> :)
<bcurtiswx> ah i found the .rej file
<bcurtiswx> it was on the configure.ac
<bcurtiswx> shows the parts that were rejected
<bcurtiswx> how would I use that and the orig to fix the diff
<bcurtiswx> would that be what rediff is saying when i need two diff files ?
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: to be honest, what I when patche doesn't apply is that:
<kklimonda> bcurtiswx: 1) quilt push -f
<kklimonda> it creates a .rej file
<kklimonda> I deal with it
<kklimonda> I think by using quilt edit file
<kklimonda> or maybe just normal editing..
<kklimonda> and then I generate a new patch - all thanks to power of vcs :)
<micahg> kklimonda: that would be normal editing after step 1, then quilt refresh
<micahg> I happen to use this: quilt refresh --diffstat -U8 --no-timestamps
<kklimonda> micahg: ah, good to know - I wasn't sure if I didn't dream this up :)
<bcurtiswx> so i 1) quilt push -f
<bcurtiswx> 2) edit the file, don't worry about editing counts
<bcurtiswx> or do i use quilt edit ?
<bcurtiswx> 3) once done, quilt refresh --diffstat -U8 --no-timestamps ?
<kklimonda> I think you should use quilt edit but if micahg says otherwise then listen to him :)
<micahg> bcurtiswx: also, if you need to add a file to the diff, use quilt add before editing, otherwise, just a regular editor (quilt knowns which patch you're on (quilt top)
<micahg> bcurtiswx: you can use quilt edit if you want (I never have had a need)
<micahg> bcurtiswx: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<bcurtiswx> micahg, hmm, im using an ~ubuntu-desktop bzr branch where only the debian directory is provided.. would I need to get the entire source before editing the patches?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: with this method, yes
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: I don't know for sure, but you might want to check out http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/merge.html
<ebroder> (for getting your working copy setup)
<micahg> we (mozilla team) have a get-orig-source rule to get the source and we just have the debian dir as well, idk how the desktop team does things
<ScottK> Desktop team also just tracks /debian in bzr (as does Kubuntu as well)
<micahg> ScottK: right, but idk how they get their source tarball :)
<ScottK> Unless it's a new upstream version you're packaging, apt-get source works.
<bcurtiswx> i got it, i remember bzr bd-do
<bcurtiswx> but now, this is weird (to me at least)
<bcurtiswx> the bzr bd fails at a patch, but by bzr bd-do and using quilt push -f, the patch works fine
<bcurtiswx> ScottK: ^^ any ideas why?
<ScottK> Because the bzr stuff is complicated and confusing.
<kklimonda> +1
<bcurtiswx> ScottK: how could I work around this?
<ScottK> I generally apt-get source the package, make a local branch of the /debian and then use diff and patch to copy stuff between the package and bzr.
<ajmitch> revu's list is depressingly long at the moment
<ScottK> ajmitch: You have root where it's db lives.  You can fix this.
<ScottK> Then I use normal dpkg like tools to build the packages.
<ajmitch> ScottK: tempting, given that I'm wanting to migrate it to another host
<kklimonda> "oops, something broke"? :)
<ajmitch> there's a large number of packages on revu from 2009
<ajmitch> I've archived a small number of packages that were uploaded to revu & then made their way into debian
<bcurtiswx> will quilt fix the patches (after it finds how far away it is from before).. if so I can copy the fixed patch to the bzr branch
<bcurtiswx> so when I quilt push -f to the patch that caused errors before, and it correctly applies the patch, will it go ahead and edit the patch as well updating the offsets it found ?
<bcurtiswx> or do i have to run another command to do that
<psusi> you need to quilt refresh to do that
<bcurtiswx> psusi, right after the patch applies correctly, or do I need to go through the entire thing?
<ajmitch> Do you think it's worth us scheduling a REVU day or two before feature freeze?
 * ajmitch is undecided as to whether we want yet more packages in universe :)
<psusi> generally if the patch does not apply cleanly,  you want to force the first patch that failed to apply, review it, make any corrections needed, and once you are sure it has been applied correctly to the new source, quilt refresh, then move to the next patch
<ScottK> ajmitch: I think if someone is willing to coordinate them, we ought to start now.
<kklimonda> ajmitch: only if they come with maintainers :)
<ajmitch> kklimonda: right, that'
 * psusi wouldn't mind getting the defrag package back into the official archive
<ajmitch> that's something we'd have to require, I think
<ebroder> Do we have any uscanning infrastructure?
<ebroder> For keeping track of new versions
<ajmitch> UEHS
<ajmitch> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/uehs/
<ajmitch> I'd have to check whether it's up to date
<kklimonda> it doesn't work
<ajmitch> be more specific
<kklimonda> I've typped two packages I know are outdated and have working watch files and it just shows empty page
 * psusi really would like to get the defrag package back into universe, and updated to provide a nice alternate grub boot entry to perform a defrag of the root fs and optimize for boot time, coordinated with ureadahead
<ajmitch> kklimonda: examples?
<kklimonda> well - "empty" as in with header and footer but without any data :)
<kklimonda> ajmitch: hamster-applet and transmission
<bcurtiswx> seems to have worked.. the bzr bd failed, but i did bzr bd-do and manually pushed up until the patch that was failing.. saw it succeeded.. did a quilt refresh.. it updated that patch and i got out of the build environment, saw the patch was fixed and so far the build is going OK
<ajmitch> kklimonda: thanks, I'll take a look as to why
<bcurtiswx> much thanks to all who helped :)
<ajmitch> psusi: convince a nice friendly person around here to upload it, then the rest can be sorted out )
<psusi> ajmitch, you are nice and friendly... care to upload it? ;)
<ajmitch> no I'm mean & nasty
<psusi> I've had it updated and working and packaged on lp for several months now... so far the only comments I have had about it are 1) don't put the debian/ directory in the "upstream" release, and update to a more recent deb-helper
<ScottK> That and he lives in NZ so uploads take an eternity due to the soda straw through which he has to do them.
<ajmitch> & trying to sort out these ubuntuwire tools
<RAOF> psusi: Last time we discussed this, questions like âhow much error detection does this do, and will it eat people's dataâ came up.
<ScottK> Ohhh.  A voice from amongst that almost nearly as badly bandwidth deprived ...
<ScottK> ;-)
<psusi> RAOF, hence the big warning made very prominent in the package description ( more so than it was last time it actually was in the official repos )
 * ajmitch remembers being around for that data-eating discussion
<ajmitch> apart from that, I don't think there were objections, were there?
<ajmitch> I suspect it's that none of us want to take responsibility for uploading something to kill data :)
<RAOF> No.  From memory, my position was that a warning in the package description was insufficient, and the binary should also prominantly warn.
<psusi> I'm all for adding a "Hey dummy, you DID back up this volume first, right?" message ;)
<ajmitch> wgrant: does UEHS need to be manually updated in several places to check natty?
<ajmitch> or at least in update_wwwal.sh
<wgrant> ajmitch: It probably will, yeah.
<wgrant> ajmitch: There's a file in my ~ describing the changes that it needs.
<ajmitch> ok, will check that out
<ajmitch> just trying to see why there's still a run.lock file around for it
<psusi> it just gets me that this was in the archives for so many years when it was confirmed that it did not work, and would eat your data, and now I've had it working well as far as I know for months ;)
<wgrant> ajmitch: I'd do it myself, but I'm currently trying to defeat Launchpad.
<psusi> especially when it can lead to sub 10 second boot times on modest rotational hard disks
<ajmitch> wgrant: yeah, I saw you trying to break stuff in #lp-dev
<wgrant> Yeah...
<bcurtiswx> build success, woo... updating changelog and will request SRU shortly (empathy 2.32.1-0ubuntu1)
<ajmitch> psusi: it's just that we know what users are like with ignoring warnings & being willing to do something for speed
<ajmitch> automatix, anyone?
<ajmitch> we shouldn't try & protect users too much, but at least let them know of consequences
<ScottK> psusi: Did you try to get it into Debian?
<psusi> ScottK, nope...
<psusi> it was in debian... it was dropped after having no maintainer for many years...
<ScottK> We'd get it via autosync then and none of us objecting would be likely to stop it.
<ScottK> Right, but if you want to maintain it, then go for it.
<ajmitch> I suspect it could be easier & more beneficial to be in debian
<psusi> well, I have made an effort to adopt it and become upstream maintainer of it.. I host the project now on lp
<psusi> but it seems like I would have to become a debian developer to get it into debia
<psusi> debian...
<ajmitch> no you don't
<ScottK> No, you can get sponsored into Debian.
<psusi> hrm... got a url for the debian sponsorship process?
<ScottK> It might even be that one or more of the people you're chatting with are DDs and could sponsor it.
<ajmitch> see mentors.debian.net for a useful place for finding sponsors, or you can ask any DDs that you know
 * psusi doesn't knowingly now any these days, having used Ubuntu instead of debian since '04 or so
 * ajmitch has heard that ScottK has plenty of bandwidth
 * RAOF knows that at least two of your interlocutors are DDs
<psusi> quam interloqutor?
 * psusi might be a bit drunk, and might have just slipped into Latin
<bcurtiswx> not sure who to ping for SRU but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/675555
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: We don't generally take upstream microreleases as-is. Instead we prefer to backport the patches that are relevant
<ebroder> The wiki talks more about it:
<ebroder> !sru | bcurtiswx
<ubottu> bcurtiswx: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ajmitch> empathy may be a special case if it's part of the usual gnome release set
<bcurtiswx> didrocks would know best, i can bother him tomorrow
<ebroder> But we only do that for LTS, right?
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure that's for all releases.
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: Also, your branch doesn't change anything except for the configure.ac file. All of the other changes are just in the patch metadata
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, i bugged the desktop team as im using the ~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntu branch (thats how they maintain it).  i didn't edit anything escept the debian/changelog with the exception of having to update a patch so the offsets were better..
<bcurtiswx> except*
<ebroder> bcurtiswx: Sorry, I'll stop throwing criticisms when I don't understand the situation now
<bcurtiswx> ebroder, yeah, i can be confusing.  I'll talk with didrocks (who maintains the branch i'm working on) and seb128 who's been helping me learn MOTU here and there.. much appreciate your help :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/651720
<kaushal> is version 5.2 available in Hardy backports ?
<kklimonda> no
<Rhonda> kaushal: http://packages.ubuntu.com/openssh and you can answer yourself. ;)
<Rhonda> â¦ and the answer in that bugreport is pretty exhaustive, isn't it?
<kaushal> what does openssh-server 1:4.7p1-8ubuntu1.2
<kaushal> what does 1:4.7p1.... mean ?
<kaushal> Rhonda: so add that line as per the bug report
<Rhonda> 1: is a debian/ubuntu internal sorting enhancement in case one had to go back with version schema.
<Rhonda> Only 4.7p1 is the real upstream version.
<micahg> kaushal: did you see the cve tracker link I gave you about this?
<kaushal> micahg: not sure
<kaushal> I might have missed it
<kaushal> micahg: please paste it again
<micahg> kaushal: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2008/CVE-2008-5161.html
<ubottu> Error handling in the SSH protocol in (1) SSH Tectia Client and Server and Connector 4.0 through 4.4.11, 5.0 through 5.2.4, and 5.3 through 5.3.8; Client and Server and ConnectSecure 6.0 through 6.0.4; Server for Linux on IBM System z 6.0.4; Server for IBM z/OS 5.5.1 and earlier, 6.0.0, and 6.0.1; and Client 4.0-J through 4.3.3-J and 4.0-K through 4.3.10-K; and (2) OpenSSH 4.7p1 and possibly other versions, when using a block cipher algorithm in Ciph
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks
 * kaushal reading it
<dholbach> good morning!
<hyperair> kaushal: i thought someone told you to use the workaround yesterday
<Rhonda> And actually I guess these kind of questions are better suited in #ubuntu, this channel is about packaging efforts.
<micahg> Rhonda: I answered the question in -hardened yesterday
<kaushal> hyperair: nope
<kaushal> so use the workaround as suggested
<kaushal> right ?
<Rhonda> Yes.
<hyperair> yes
<kaushal> Thanks a lot
<kaushal> So do i need to rescan again ?
<kaushal> I mean the OpenVAS Scanner
<kaushal> after setting the workaround
<hyperair> kaushal: scottk told you to use the workaround listed in the bug report yesterday..
<hyperair> kaushal: and you even posted the Ciphers line
<kaushal> hyperair: yes
<hyperair> it was just 16 hours ago!
<kaushal> apologies
<Rhonda> kaushal: The scanner only goes by version number, it doesn't try the exploit.
<hyperair> kaushal: you probably want to reload/restart your ssh server as well
<Rhonda> kaushal: So the scanner actually will always produce false positives.
 * micahg gave a link to the CVE tracker with the Ciphers listed about 19 hrs ago
<kaushal> so rescanning wont help
<kaushal> right
<kaushal> just to understand more
<Rhonda> It will still show you as being affected, yes.
<kaushal> ah ok
<kaushal> Rhonda: Thanks
<kaushal> hyperair: Thanls
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks
<kaushal> Thanks a Lot all
<Rhonda> If you use such tools you should learn about its limitations.
<kaushal> since i need to be doubly sure to put forward in front of my organization
<kaushal> Rhonda: :)
<hyperair> kaushal: if you wanted to be really sure, use a newer LTS.
<Rhonda> Scanners usually only do non-intrusive tests, and that is plain version comparision.
<hyperair> i think hardy is no longer supported.
<kaushal> hyperair: it is
<hyperair> oh it is?
<hyperair> whoops
<kaushal> uptill 1012
<micahg> hyperair: hardy is supported on teh server until Apr 2013
<Rhonda> That though won't work at all when the fixes get backported instead of blindly rolling out the new version (with all new bugs included, too)
<hyperair> i see
<kaushal> sorry Apr 2013
<hyperair> that's long, yeah
<Rhonda> hyperair: the server packages, not the whole of hardy
<hyperair> Rhonda: right.
<Rhonda> It's even on the entry page of wiki.ubuntu.com  ;)
<micahg> and core server, with Dapper it was about 80 packages IIRC
<Rhonda>  	
<Rhonda> Supported until April 2011 (Desktop) or April 2013 (Server)
<hyperair> well, now you know i don't go to the entry page of wiki.ubuntu.com much ;-)
<Rhonda> Right, just mentioning it that the information isn't hidden very deep. :)
<hyperair> yeah well =)
<hyperair> i think wikipedia also has it listed
<jpds> hyperair: /Releases
<hyperair> jpds: ?
<jpds> hyperair: w.u.c/Releases
<hyperair> ah
<Rhonda> jpds: It's all on the main page too, at least the most important data.
<jpds> Rhonda: Woohoo, redundancy.
<Rhonda> I guess H was left out after Gutsy to not have a repeat?
<Rhonda> I would have voted for horny horses (and then run away like one ...)
<Rhonda> But why wasn't there a cuddly chipmunk after breezy?
<Rhonda> copyright issues? ;)
<micahg> Rhonda: Hardy Heron?
<Rhonda> Right, just noticed.
 * Rhonda . o O ( ogling owl )
<happyaron> What should be done when a package found to be not comply DFSG and should be removed from archive?
<wgrant> happyaron: Which package? What's wrong with the license?
<Rhonda> happyaron: File a bugreport against it and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<happyaron> wgrant: fcitx, an required file in it can only be used to the specific package and cannot be reused by other projects
<happyaron> Rhonda: thanks
<Rhonda> happyaron: And also please file a serious bugreport in the Debian bugtracker if the package is still in there, too.
<Rhonda> Otherwise it will get autosynced back into Ubuntu and you wasted your own effort. :)
<happyaron> Rhonda: there is RM request on bts against ftp.debian.org
<happyaron> Rhonda: the problem should be solved in upstream's upcoming major release, but older versions should be removed
<happyaron> they are debian 603569, debian 603570 and debian 603571
<ubottu> Debian bug 603569 in ftp.debian.org "RM: fcitx/stable -- ROM; not dfsg free" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/603569
<ubottu> Debian bug 603570 in ftp.debian.org "RM: fcitx/testing -- ROM; not dfsg free" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/603570
<ubottu> Debian bug 603571 in ftp.debian.org "RM: fcitx/unstable -- ROM; not dfsg free" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/603571
<wgrant> It's redistributable, so it's not absolutely critical.
<happyaron> we can distribute it in archive, but it doesn't comply DFSG, that's the problem
<wgrant> Right.
<ScottK> happyaron: So it should be moved to Multiverse, not removed entirely.
<happyaron> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> happyaron: Please update the bug to ask it to be moved.
<happyaron> ScottK: okay
<Rhonda> And in Debian moved to non-free
<Rhonda> Unless the maintainer really doesn't want to continue to maintain it.
<happyaron> er, busy right now, will change soon
<happyaron> in fact, the upcoming release will be dfsg free, so moving to non-free is not a good idea
<Rhonda> When is the release expected? Maybe the removal from unstable/natty can wait for that?
<Rhonda> So that the package won't have to run through NEW again?
<happyaron> Rhonda: the upstream release will be in a week or so hopefully, but the I don't have enough time to have a quick version for Debian then. The package was maintained by another person, but he doesn't give any feedback, so I plan to do it myself
<ScottK> happyaron: At least in Ubuntu, it's very easy to get it moved back to Universe when there's a free version available.
<happyaron> ScottK: that's good
<happyaron> changing the ubuntu bug now
<ScottK> Perhaps DktrKranz can advise you on the best thing in Debian ...
<happyaron> yes... the bug on Debian BTS was filed by a DD, not me...though I found the problem when working on 4.0rc1
<Rhonda> happyaron: Will the new upstream release be that much changed that the release team will _not_ let it go into squeeze? Or is ist "just" the licensing adjust?
<happyaron> ScottK: changed, thanks
<ScottK> Thanks.
<happyaron> Rhonda: a major release
<Rhonda> then I fear it won't make it into squeeze :/
<happyaron> with a lot of new features, so perhaps release team will not let it go into squeeze.
<ScottK> happyaron: Perhaps upstream could relicense the existing file in the current release and documentation of that could be added to debian/copyright?
<Rhonda> Unless the licensing fixes can get extracted explicitly into the package
<ScottK> Licensing "fix" could be an email from the copyright holder.
<happyaron> ScottK: nope, the copyright holder didn't response, at least till now
<Rhonda> It would be really swift if you could check for that.
<ScottK> Ah.  That makes it tough.
<Rhonda> So what's the upstream fix for the issue?
<happyaron> Rhonda: change to use another set of data that doesn't have the problem
<happyaron> Rhonda: it could be backport to the 3.6.x branch easily if I'm not wrong
<happyaron> Rhonda: but will cause noticeable change on user experience, because it is a data file of an input method
<Rhonda> huhm
<Rhonda> Better discuss the issue with the release team directly, then.
<Rhonda> #debian-release on oftc. Or better, mail debian-release
<happyaron> okay, thanks
<Rhonda> @lists.debian.org of course :)
<happyaron> :)
<DktrKranz> ScottK: about?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.
<DktrKranz> so, re-enter a package previously dropped?
<ScottK> Well the question is how to deal with non-freeness and how hard it would be to get back from non-free to Main once the problem is fixed.
<ScottK> It does seem that happyaron and Rhonda have come up with a possibly better solution.
<DktrKranz> just upload to main
<DktrKranz> it will have to pass NEW again, though
<lucidfox> YokoZar, what's multiarch?
<geser> lucidfox: having multiple architectures installed in parallel, e.g. being able to run 32 bit apps (i386) on an amd64 installation
<geser> which means you have to have also all needed 32bit libs installed (next to the 64bit ones)
<SpamapS> ScottK: those little arm build boxes you had at UDS... do they have USB ports?
<ScottK> SpamapS: They do.
<ScottK> Two in fact.
<SpamapS> ScottK: do you by any chance know where they can be bought, and/or what the model number is? I want one.
<ScottK> SpamapS: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11
<ScottK> SpamapS: They come with Karmic on them, but there will be a Natty kernel for them as well.
<SpamapS> fantastic.
<Laney> Some (mine) come with Maverick
<Laney> I can't remember why...
<SpamapS> I want to use it a) to build arm stuff, and b) to run a local mirror.
<ScottK> Laney: I don't think those are production models.
<ScottK> SpamapS: I do builds in a natty chroot just fine.
<Laney> ok
<ScottK> Laney: Check though, it probably has a maverick userspace and a Karmic kernel.
<micahg> mine came with Maverick also, but a Karmic kernel
<SpamapS> I actually don't have any "always on" computers in my house.. but its either have a local apt cache/mirror.. or upgrade my u-verse from 7Mbit to 20Mbit so I can stop waiting to bootstrap everything :p
<Laney> laney@efikamx:~$ uname -a
<Laney> Linux efikamx 2.6.31.14-efikamx #1 PREEMPT Tue Sep 14 22:23:30 CDT 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux
<ScottK> SpamapS: The USB port is the reason I can build qt4-x11 on it.  I bought a 16GB USB stick and mounted it as /var/cache.
 * micahg thought there was a maverick kernel for these boards
<ScottK> Laney: That's Karmic.
<Laney> Yeah
<ScottK> I've got one of those too.
<ScottK> Does yours shutdown cleanly?
<SpamapS> ScottK: I have two 1TB USB drives that are grossly underused.. so local mirror seems a good choice given the number of builds/packages/merges/etc. I do.
<Laney> About to restart it, so we'll see. Don't remember any problems though.
<SpamapS> that way I can also keep bringing one of the 1TB drives with me on trips.
<highvoltage> I wish these kind of devices would switch to ARM: http://store.computer-source.ca/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=77060
<highvoltage> (I guess it's just a matter of time)
<Laney> ScottK: shut down just fine
<ScottK> Thanks.  Must be something odd in my box then.
<SpamapS> highvoltage: they'll switch when its cheaper for them.
<SpamapS> highvoltage: or if they get wise to the "green economy" and can say "the low carbon footprint storage solution"
<ari-tczew> whoa, how much core-devs are coming! and zero MOTUs this time
<ajmitch> hm?
<geser> ajmitch: see DMB agenda
<ajmitch> right
<ari-tczew> pull-debian-source doesn't work in natty :(
<ari-tczew> The source package konversation isn't available in Debian testing.
<jpds> Nice.
<ajmitch> that seems just a bit broken
<Laney> good job it's foss ;-)
<ajmitch> Laney: it wouldn't have helped if it was looking at a broken site for its data
<ajmitch> but qa.debian.org/madison.php is giving me the right output
<Laney> i bet it's the multiple source entries thing
<geser> as far as I can tell, only one version in testing
<Laney> I think the "testing" part is misleading
<Laney> a bug in the error message, it's actually looking in unstable
<ajmitch> funnily enough, appending testing to the command line does fetch it
<Laney> exactly
<ajmitch> pull-debian-source konversation unstable is what fails for me
<ajmitch> r773, committed on 17 oct
<Laney> that is suspicious
<Laney> 103-107 are weird too. trim()?
<Laney> and right, it doesn't look like it handles multiple source entries
<DeepBlue74> hi, anybody here to get a newbie some starting pointers?
<rsajdok> Which of package contains module: gnome-keybindings
<rsajdok> ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-18
<c2tarun> can anyone help me with patch command, following is my difference file http://paste.ubuntu.com/533703/.
<c2tarun> can anyone help me with patch command, following is my difference file http://paste.ubuntu.com/533703/
<poolie> c2tarun: you want to know how to apply this diff?
<c2tarun> ya
<c2tarun> actually i tried to use 'patch -p0 < file.diff' but get this error: patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.
<c2tarun> poolie: actually i tried to use 'patch -p0 < file.diff' but get this error: patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.
<poolie> how about if you add the -e option?
<c2tarun> sorry i tried patch -e, -e0
<c2tarun> both not working
<c2tarun> with -e i m getting the same error
<poolie> do you know where this file came from?
<c2tarun> i created this file using diff file.old file.new > file.diff
<c2tarun> i also have both my files
<poolie> is there any reason you don't want to use diff -u?
<c2tarun> actually i knew that it only adds line numbers to the diff file and i read that patch should work with all the difference files created by diff
<poolie> you should use -u
<c2tarun> ok can u just wait for a moment, let me try
<c2tarun> hey i worked, but still i m not able to understand the output ( i mean what patch did), can u please explain me the output. if u want i can send u both old and new file.
<micahg> tumbleweed: are you taking care of SpamapS's mongodb SRU for lucid
<abudawud> can anyone tell me if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/597728 is already packaged... Please excuse the terrible new guy
<ajmitch> abudawud: yes, it's in natty
<abudawud> ajmitch, why is the bug still open if you don't mind? :)
<ajmitch> because the uploader of the package didn't mention the ubuntu bug in the changelog when it was uploaded to debian.
 * ajmitch has closed it now
<abudawud> thanks, at least I got some easy experience messing with the packaging tools
<ajmitch> as it was in progress, and the comments linked to a site with the package, you could assume that there was a package for it :)
<abudawud> how can a fella like me easily find projects that need packaging?
<ajmitch> you could search for open bugs with that tag
<abudawud> well thats how I found where I am now, and it appears every one of these I have opened thusfar is not really in need of packaging
<micahg> abudawud: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/prospective
<micahg> abudawud: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging <-- in status new
<micahg> or triaged
<abudawud> micahg, awesome, thanks
<ajmitch> also, check that it's not included already - it's quite likely that bugs won't get closed if it was synced from debian
<abudawud> ajmitch, by 'included' you mean the .deb is already linked somewhere in the bug page correct?
<abudawud> or attached
<ajmitch> abudawud: I mean in ubuntu already, though checking comments of a bug is also important
<abudawud> ajmitch, maybe I should just wait on a response to my mentor request before I go around tearing things up :)
<abudawud> another stupid question, for a package that is new to Ubuntu, would the version always start at 0.0.1?
<micahg> abudawud: there are no stupid questions, the version depends on the version of the software, not when it enters the distro
<abudawud> well the dev just labeled it with the python revision it pertained to, so theres a '2.6' and a '3.0' version
<micahg> abudawud: link to upstream?
<abudawud> http://code.google.com/p/python-ntlm/
<micahg> abudawud: I don't see any releases
<abudawud> nor do I in retrospect. These bugs are confusing me. I think I'll move on to upgrading packages instead
<abudawud> if a developer made changes to a revision of their software and their changelog, how do I merge their changelog into the debian/changelog with their signature?
<micahg> abudawud: that's not what usually goes in a Debian changelog
<abudawud> so the actual developers changes don't go in there?
<micahg> abudawud: no, it's usually packaging changes or references to bug fixes
<abudawud> micahg, the entire rest of the file is full of his bugfixes, I just was unsure if I should just do a New upstream version
<micahg> abudawud: what package?
<abudawud> hedgewars
<abudawud> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars/+bug/675035
<micahg> abudawud: I think you should just let him update in Debian
<micahg> which would happen after squeeze is releases
<micahg> fabrice_sp: hi, what IRC client are you using?
<fabrice_sp> Hi micahg : xchat
<fabrice_sp> why? Something wierd happens each time I connect?
<micahg> fabrice_sp: join then auth
<fabrice_sp> let me check the configuration then
<fabrice_sp> this channel is in auto-join, so not sure
<micahg> abudawud: that bug is fixed in Natty BTW
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I see it happen often, so I'll file a bug later :)
<abudawud> abudawud, I don't get why I can't see when things are fixed. How are you finding this?
<abudawud> micahg,
<micahg> abudawud: rmadison?
<micahg> abudawud: or you can click on the source package name and see what versions are in LP for it
<micahg> in teh breadcrumb, not the bug task
<abudawud> ah got it, over to code from bugs
<abudawud> thanks micahg
<micahg> nxvl: hi, can you hop in -mozillateam for a minute?
<abudawud> is there a better way to start helping here? Apparently I'm a pretty huge derp
<micahg> abudawud: no, just to the main section
<fabrice_sp> micahg, I can't see any way of doing it differently at xchat options elvel, so a bug report is required :-)
<fabrice_sp> s/elvel/level/
<fabrice_sp> micahg, shouldn't we unsubscribe sponsors when working on a bug for sponsoring (like 676758)? IIRC, this is what ack-sync do, but I don't remember if it's by policy or not
<fabrice_sp> found that wiki page that seems to say so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<Rhonda> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_87
<dholbach> good morning!
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<tumbleweed> micahg: will do, I commented on it last night, waiting for SpamapS to answer. I'm hoping it won't FTBFS on the buildds, can't see why it is in PPAs
<c2tarun> hi friends, can anyone please tell me the difference between schroot and debootstrapchroot
* c2tarun changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Open | maverick-proposed is now unfrozen, time to work on SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congratulations to new MOTUl: micahg.
<c2tarun>  hi friends, can anyone please tell me the difference between schroot and debootstrapchroot
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Open | maverick-proposed is now unfrozen, time to work on SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congratulations to new MOTU: micahg.
<Rhonda> ouch, the german translation of the ubuntu single sign on is â¦ looks like debian-l10n-german did it.  %-/
<geser> that good?
<Rhonda> geser: http://deb.at/~rhonda/sarcasm.png
<c2tarun> can anyone explain me the difference between schroot and debootstrap??
<c2tarun> can anyone please explain me the difference between schroot and debootstrap??
<Rhonda> debootstrap creates what schroot can use.
<Rhonda> debootstrap actually installs a base system for a given distribution into a specified path. With schroot you can use that to work in a different distribution than what your main system runs.
<c2tarun> what i read is debootstrap is something that creates a chroot environment that acts as jail out of which an application cannoot go... am i wrong???
<Rhonda> The "acts as" part is wrong. :)
<Rhonda> What it creates can be seen as chroot environment indeed. But actually it just does install a base system into a directory. For whatever purpose that might be.
<c2tarun> what do we mean by base system here??
<Rhonda> Basic libraries and tools.
<Rhonda> Including dpkg and apt.
<c2tarun> can u please give me some examples, i m not still getting it. :(
<c2tarun> u still there rhonda??
<joaopinto> c2tarun, deboostrap is a base system installer
<joaopinto> chroot is s jail like system
<joaopinto> for testing/building purposes it is common to use both
<c2tarun> hey i was in a discussion on debootstrap but got disconnected...  :(
<c2tarun> can anyone guide me to some examples on debootstrap??
<c2tarun> i read on the internet and found that debootstrap can be used to install GNU/Linux into a directory. can i do use debootstrap to install ubuntu lucid on my friends system which has winxp installed on it??
<joaopinto> c2tarun, no, debootstrap is only available for linux
<c2tarun> i was reading this page: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/426  they used there chroot to lock into a directory, is schroot and chroot are same/?
<c2tarun> joaopinto: i was reading this page: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/426  they used there chroot to lock into a directory, is schroot and chroot are same/?
<joaopinto> schroot is an utility which makes it easier to use chroot
<joaopinto> schroot uses chroot
<c2tarun> ok maybe after using chroot i may understand schroot in better way. according to you what should i use first for my learning ???
<c2tarun> one more thing please, i just googled and found Sarge is one whole debian operating system, dont want to do that much of installation as i m just trying to learn, is it ok to install some application from the repositories??? how can i do that??
<c2tarun> can anyone please reply to my last two posts plz :(
<joaopinto> c2tarun, Sarge is not a whole OS, it's the codename for a Debian release, using deboostrap will just install you a base system, not the entire repository contents
<c2tarun> one more thing please, can i use debootstrap to install some application from the repositories??? how can i do that??
<c2tarun> http://paste.ubuntu.com/533909/
<c2tarun> joaopinto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/533909/
<joaopinto> c2tarun, you can schroot into your deboostrapped environment to install applications from the repositories, yes
<c2tarun> joaopinto: so first i have to create a ubuntu environment by debootstrap and then install an application there and then i can perform my experiments??? one last thing... i m sorry to ask but please tell me how to create the debootstrap environment for ubuntu??
<joaopinto> c2tarun, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<ari-tczew> achiang: could you look at gimp? it's ftbfs, maybe you can fix it :)
<achiang> ari-tczew: i'll take a quick look, but i do have my day job to contend with. :)
<ari-tczew> sure achiang
<BlackZ> achiang: I have a proposed fix for it
<ari-tczew> oh, nice
<achiang> BlackZ: ok, good. looks like it should be pretty simple too
 * achiang goes back to wrestling with pulseaudio
<Joelito> good day all
<Joelito> I have two questions
<Joelito> 1.- When I made my own makefile to compile my program, how to use it to debuild?
<Joelito> I don't want to use dh_make
<c2tarun> i just set up a chroot environment of hardy into my lucid, is it possible to boot into that chroot environment??
<persia> c2tarun, How did you set up the chroot?  (The answer is probably "No", but there is a chance)
<c2tarun> persia: i set up by this command =>   sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 hardy /var/chroot/hardy http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<persia> What is the backing store for /var/chroot/hardy?
<c2tarun> sorry its my first time, i m not aware of this term
<_ruben> is it on a seperate partition/logical volume?
<persia> Joelito, http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2010/08/is-packaging-new-software-hard.html is one of the simplest outlines of how to not use dh_make I've seen.
<c2tarun> no its in the same partition, i thought of first setting it up in separate partition but then i thought that partitions are not mounted automatically so if i did so it'll be impossible to boot into it
<Joelito> thanks persia, I'll look
<persia> c2tarun, Actually, having it a separate partition would mean you could install a kernel on it, and then fiddle your bootloader.  With it in a regular directory you'd probably have to export it with NBD or NFS or something, and then boot *another* computer over the network (assuming the bootloader on the other computer supported whatever protocol you export)
<_ruben> or just chroot into it, which obviously isn't The Real Thing (tm) ;)
<persia> c2tarun, So, this brings a related question: why do you want to boot that?  What are you trying to accomplish?
<c2tarun> actually i was trying to translate gnome menus into my native language as my college project. For that i needed another operating system on my laptop. i tried virtual machine but didn't like it. then while reading packaging i found debootstrap. i read about it and in ubuntuforum a guy told me that we can also boot into the environment
<c2tarun> as it is my first time, i setup the chroot env not i can lock to it but its not something i wanted. i want to boot into the system. perform some experiments and then remove it.
<persia> It's true that you can, but it's complicated.  For the purposes of translation, a chroot is likely sufficient.
<c2tarun> persia: but how can i see the gnome menus without booting into it??
<persia> _ruben, Do you have a good pointer to running X in a chroot?  I generally just use `schroot -p ...` which isn't sufficient for this.
<c2tarun> wow... can we run X into chroot without booting into it??
<persia> Absolutely.  Some stuff works a bit different (different kernel, etc.), but the menus and most translatable GUI applications work normally.
<_ruben> never really tried actually .. it wouldn't surprise that with a properly setup /dev /proc etc, you could just start (an extra) X server from within the chroot
<c2tarun> u talked about some pointer for X. i didnot get it. can u enlighten me a bit please...
<_ruben> hm, now that i think of it some more, that'd probably not work due to kernel (abi/api) incompatibilities
<_ruben> vritualization might not be ideal, but i do think it's most appropriate here
<ebroder> persia, _ruben: You probably want to use Xnest or something, but I don't know how to make it work
<persia> ebroder, Yeah, probably.  The tricky bit is getting all the bindings right, including the special DBUS magic, for which I'm not finding any comprehensive document just now.
<c2tarun> persia, _ruben: check this out  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<c2tarun> goto topic 5 in the index
<persia> c2tarun, That doesn't bind-mount /sys/ or set up the DBUS channels, but it's 90% of what you need, and might be enough, depending.
<c2tarun> ok, i m not getting few things... in setting up the chroot.. they mounted proc??? what does it mean..
<persia> Does anyone have time to take a quick look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~persia/packages/devicetype-detect_0.01.dsc ?  I believe it's clean, but want a second pair of eyes before I upload.
<persia> (well, it's potentially buggy, but I believe there only to be upstream bugs)
<ebroder> persia: There's some weird spacing in the description
<ebroder> persia: I generally consider having to use dh_dirs to be a deficiency in the upstream build system. Why not do a mkdir -p in the install target?
<persia> ebroder, Because it's better to pass -d to install :)  Thanks for catching that.  The spaces are troff's fault, but definitely deserve to be fixed.
<ebroder> persia: That's all I see in the packaging. The VERSION handling makes me twitch a little, but it's not like I haven't done worse things before
<ebroder> (And I can appreciate the desire to only have a one canonical location for the version number)
<persia> ebroder, That's pulled direct from laptop-detect.  I don't know another way to do it unless I don't do a native package (and yes, I know non-native is better, etc.)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-19
<c2tarun> can anyone please tell me how to install xnest.
<c2tarun> this happened when i tried... http://paste.ubuntu.com/534184/
<ajmitch> c2tarun: you need to run 'sudo apt-get update' first
<c2tarun> thanx ajmitch
<micahg> bdrung: ping
<micahg> bdrung: I asked feranick to add the dep3 headers to the vlc SRU and change the version, I noticed that you did this for the natty upload, should I just make the changes myself?
<c2tarun> i installed xnest and opened emacs into it by my chroot environment of hardy. i want gnome to be installed in hardy.. how can i do that???
<micahg> !support | c2tarun
<ubottu> c2tarun: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Please be aware that this channel is for development only.
<c2tarun> sorry...
<c2tarun> sorry to say but there is too much crowd there and noone is replying to my problem :( can i post them here
<micahg> c2tarun: it's either the middle of the night or early morning for most of the people here and there
<c2tarun> ok sorry
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning Daniel.
<bdrung> micahg: you may wait a while for him doing what you requested
<dholbach> hey iulian
<syskkk> how can I search for "bitesize" tagged bugs?
<dholbach> syskkk, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<syskkk> thx, didnt notice the tags oon the right side
<syskkk> im trying to register to launchpad but the confirmation email doesnt contain the confirmation code
<syskkk> weird
<syskkk> http://pastebin.com/0YFPzq7L
<geser> syskkk: the mail reads like an account with that e-mail address already exists
<bilalakhtar> back from a (short) vacation
<jpds> bilalakhtar: I went out of the room for 5 minutes, though it seemed like a holiday.
<bilalakhtar> jpds: The case is similar for me, I am also Addicted To Ubuntuâ¢
<bilalakhtar> Since It Rocksâ¢
<ari-tczew> welcome bilalakhtar
<nigelb> hrm, now that the files inside the bzr are tar'd, how do I work with them?
<nigelb> I don't see the documentation updated to reflect that :(
<geser> nigelb: which files get tar'd?
<nigelb> geser: Just branched the source of a package for udd, and everything outside of debian dir is tar'd
<geser> a tar-in-tar package?
<geser> I don't like touching those
<nigelb> No No
<nigelb> nigelbabu@nigelbabu-laptop:~/sources/libnss-ldap/libnss-ldap.fix-bugs$ ls
<nigelb> debian  nss_ldap-264.tar.gz  nss_ldap-264.tar.gz.md5
<nigelb> nigelbabu@nigelbabu-laptop:~/sources/libnss-ldap/libnss-ldap.fix-bugs$ ls
<nigelb> debian  nss_ldap-264.tar.gz  nss_ldap-264.tar.gz.md5
<nigelb> gah!
<nigelb> geser: ^^meant to paste only once, sorry ^-^
<geser> nigelb: yep, one of those tar-in-tar packages
<nigelb> yuck, how do we build these things? :(
<geser> (see the inclusion of /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/tarball.mk in debian/rules)
<nigelb> yeah
<geser> debian/rules (through cdbs) knows how to unpack them, but don't ask me how to call debian/rules to get something to work with
<geser> I prefer to skip those packages if possible
<nigelb> Sigh, patch review.
<nigelb> geser: Any doc that I can look to make sense of this mess?
<nigelb> (why do maintainers do this torture!)
<geser> that way they could use tar.bz2 in v1 packages
<cjwatson> it's an obsolete technique, people are moving away from it
<cjwatson> not everyone's got round to updating yet
<cjwatson> usually I run 'debian/rules build' and watch what it does
<nigelb> oh, that would probably untar it for me?
<geser> certainly
<nigelb> I do have a certain flair for picking the more complicated packages
<nigelb> Now I have a new tar.gz.cdbs-config_list
<nigelb> wonder what that's supposed to do
<SpamapS> micahg: just saw xulrunner-2.0 uploaded into natty... should we start moving everything to it?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: what about bug 677133 ? is it ready to sponsor? it wasn't in sponsors queue and bilalakhtar has duplicated a work (he has proposed another fix)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 677133 in gimp (Ubuntu) "gimp 2.6.11-1ubuntu1 FTBFS in natty" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677133
<ari-tczew> siretart: you can upload SRU for emacs23 (bug 449729) to -proposed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449729 in util-linux (Ubuntu Lucid) "rebuild with new debhelper to get trigger support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449729
<ari-tczew> then pitti will accept your package and ask in bug for testing
<ari-tczew> (will accept or not) ;)
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: I was about to propose a new fix (talked to seb128). However, can you give me the bug number?
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: bug number with Bilal's fix? he did a merge bzr proposal, but he deleted branch when I told him about your bug (dunno why)
<micahg> SpamapS: you can if you like
<BlackZ> ari-tczew: I see, the correct libs should be added to the gcc call
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: could you merge package console-tools? I saw that you
<ari-tczew> are last merger (not uploader)
<siretart> ari-tczew: I've uploaded a testpackage of emacs to my PPA, but it seems the font patch doesn't work for me :-(
<siretart> needs further investigation
<ari-tczew> ok
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: yeah, can look on Monday or so (more or less finished for the week now)
<ari-tczew> okok
<deadwill> ScottK, o/
<deadwill> siretart, o/
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-20
<om26er> when i do 'quilt import foo.patch'    the patches directory is created in the source tree and not in debian/  what am i doing wrong?
<hakermania> hello, I have successfully packaged my program. I want to know how exactly should I upload the package to REVU. I've signed the files with my GPG key which is the same with the one I have mentioned at the Lanchpad open ID. So, there is no problem with this. The only problem is that I don't know how exactly to make dput upload the package for me to revu. What is the exact command? The files generated so far are: some-1.0/ some_1.0-0ub
<geser> hakermania: did you call "debuild -S" inside some-1.0/ ?
<hakermania> ofcourse :) First debuild then debuild -S and last debuild -b (to check if the .deb is working properly)
<geser> dput revu some_1.0â¦_source.changes
<hakermania> only the source.chages file?
<geser> yes
<geser> you might need to "debuild -S -sa" to get also the source mention in the .changes file (and get it included in the upload)
<geser> om26er: see /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source
<hakermania> Ok, I did so. But I think you are wrong.The file some_1.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes includes only some info and my GPG signature. How will revu get the whole source if I upload only this file (which is 1.2KB) ?
<hakermania> geser: ?
<angelo> Hi!
<angelo> I'd like to help in packaging. Is there some work i could do?
<geser> hakermania: dput looks at those entries in the Files: section in .changes and uploads those files too
<hakermania> geser: Ok, thx very helpful
<hakermania> angelo:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment go to the Packaging section to read more.
<angelo> thank u hakermania :-)
<gaurava> Hi All .. I am a newbie and trying to create a sample patch file following the instructions mentioned over here <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix>
<gaurava> But facing some problem .. can anybody help me out
<ari-tczew> gaurava: what's the problem?
<gaurava> When I am running the command  "$debuild -S -as" I am getting the following error
<gaurava> unknown Debian architecture s, you must specify GNU system type, too at /usr/bin/dpkg-architecture line 144.
<gaurava> I am running Ubuntu 10.10
<mr_pouit> I guess you want '-sa', not '-as'
<ari-tczew> gaurava: ^^
<ari-tczew> or use debuild -S then pbuilder build *.dsc
<gaurava> -sa is working for me ..
<gaurava> Just thinking .. is the sequencing of the options matters?
<ebroder> "-sa" is a single option
<ebroder> "-as", on the other hand, is the option "-a" with value "s"
<gaurava> oh ok .. now I can  make a sense from the error. . seems like -a is to specify the architect and it is taking 's' as its value
<gaurava> thanks for the info ..
<gaurava> but i cant find these information in a quick glance of 'man debuild' output .. ny idea ?
<ebroder> debuild passes most of its arguments to dpkg-buildpackage
<gaurava> thanks all .. now i am able to follow it in a much better manner ..
<jdong> LOL there's a Jimmy Wales chrome extension... that adds his personal appeal to every website
<jdong> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/idkjdjficifbfjjkdkiimioljbloddpl
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-21
<gaurava> hey all ..I created my first patch for the ubuntu and uploaded the same @ <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cgal/+bug/675204>
<gaurava> Now, I got some feedback from the reviewer... but some of the things are still not clear to me
<gaurava> so can any one help me out in figuring out those points ?
<ebroder> gaurava: Which ones are you confused about?
<gaurava> hey ebroader, reviewer told me to upload the package to the current ubuntu development ..
<gaurava> but I am not sue ...whether I have the permission for the same or not?
<ebroder> gaurava: What he means is that in the first line of your changelog, it said "maverick", but it needs to have the current development release
<gaurava> oh ok
<gaurava> secondly about forwarding the patch to debian using submittodebian ..
<ebroder> gaurava: Yeah? What's not clear to you?
<gaurava> when I run the same command, I got the diff containing the changes (excluding changelog file), but it still displays the changes of control file..
<gaurava> but I guess that is not needed .. am I right?
<ebroder> Yes, that's right. You shouldn't include the debian/control changes
<ebroder> I'm not sure I see any way to keep submittodebian from including that
<ebroder> You could file a bug against ubuntu-dev-tools about that. But in the mean time, I'd probably just undo the change by hand
<gaurava> ok ..
<gaurava> now, once I saved the diff-file .. submittodebian is prompting me this :
<micahg> ebroder: if it specifically excluded maintainer changes in d/control that might work
<gaurava> Outstanding bugs -- Wishlist items; Will Not Fix (1 bug)
<gaurava>   1) #466284  Adding documentation
<gaurava> (1-1/1) Is the bug you found listed above [y|N|b|m|r|q|s|f|?]?
<gaurava> may be .. i will give it(submittodebian) a try ..
<ebroder> micahg: Right, you'd have to have some intelligence
 * micahg tries too  :)
<gaurava> now .. back to the submittodebian prompt..
<gaurava> this bug is not the same , so I opted for the N option ..
<gaurava> now after putting the bug subject and the mentioning the severity, it opens  a file containing all the information in the mail format..
<gaurava> so is this it .. to do i need to do anything else also?
<gaurava> ny 1 here?
<micahg> gaurava: if it looks good, go ahead and send it
<gaurava> ok .. thanks ..
<micahg> gaurava: the email view is a chance for you to look it over
<gaurava> now some of the feedback that I have w.r.t my first experience .
<micahg> gaurava: go for it
<gaurava> just a min
<gaurava> downloading the source, creating a patch file is well documented ..
<gaurava> but I dont find uploading procedure smooth ..
<gaurava> like what tag to apply, to whom to subscribe after applying the patch .. what different tag means in the bug report
<gaurava> may be I am missing any wiki page link over here. .
<gaurava> but support from this channel is really good .. so that makes it up I guess
<micahg> gaurava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<gaurava> ok these links provides some of the information, that I was looking for when uploading a patch ..
<gaurava> Also, I found that there are two approaches given in the wiki webpages w.r.t creating a patch and applying it over ..
<gaurava> one by using the apt-get source, modifying the source code and then creating the diff using debdiff (traditional approach, I guess) and other is to use bzr for doing the same
<micahg> gaurava: yes, development is moving towards bzr, but we're not there yet with all the source packages
<gaurava> Can a newbie use the bzr mechanism ? What I mean ..is can a newbie upload and commit the changes from his/her account ?
<micahg> gaurava: no, but you can propose a merge
<micahg> gaurava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment
<gaurava> ok .. I will go through this link ..
<gaurava> Now, third step(in some cases) is to send your changes to the Debian/Upstream team ..
<gaurava> sendtodebian is really a nice tool that makes this task very easy .. but currently it is not resolving the dependency automatically
<gaurava> I dont have the reporttubug and sendmail installed on my system ..
<gaurava> reportbug is indicated by the tool initially .. so its fine
<gaurava> but sendmail comes into the picture at the last moment... so I guess it is better, to put these packets into sendtodebian dependency list
<gaurava> this way, one dont need to install these packages independently as per the apt-get norms :)
 * micahg thought u-d-t referenced an mta somwhere
<ebroder> gaurava: The ubuntu-dev-tools package has a *lot* of tools with a *lot* of dependencies. Since you probably will never use all of the tools, the decision was made to not depend on all of the dependencies of all of the tools
<ebroder> But instead they should check at startup-time for the dependencies they need
<micahg> oh, it's through devscripts (Recommends: bsd-mailx | mailx)
<gaurava> ok .. i can see, its not submittodebian that is using the MTA functionality but its reportbug
<gaurava> and AFAIR, it didn't check for the MTA dependency in the starting ..
<c2tarun> hey i was reading packaging guide on wiki.ubuntu. i m stuck at few things. first thing in that tutorial they told us about various available tools for packaging. but there internal working and working of package is not clearly mentioned. second they are not asking us to take a look at the source code, is it possible to pack an application without knowing its coding???
<c2tarun> please help
<ulysses> You have to know only if it compiles:)
<c2tarun> what exactly we mean by packaging, in packaging tutorial we just created debian directory by dh_make command then edited few files. then debuild them and further more... is this complete packaging??? :( i thought packaging was about create setup of various applications by there source code...?? please correct me if i m wrong
<c2tarun> please reply
<ulysses> something like
<c2tarun> what exactly will be our contribution via packaging.
<ari-tczew> c2tarun: e.g. merging from Debian
<ari-tczew> you don't need to pack from scratch new package to start contribution
<c2tarun> sorry not getting exactly :(  is it that people are going to create source code of various applications and give that to us so that we can package and upload??? if possible can anyone please give me one example of his/her contribution via packaging.
<ulysses> https://launchpad.net/~ulysses/+related-software
<ari-tczew> c2tarun: packages which you install day-to-day are .deb files. these are called binaries.
<ari-tczew> but binaries have been build from source
<ari-tczew> we manage source files
<ari-tczew> we use tools like debuild, pbuilder and other
<c2tarun> please reply
<c2tarun> aro-tczew: ya exactly thats something i wanted to ask, what managing you all do.. is it making appropriate changes to the source code and alter its functioning in a better way??
<c2tarun> ari-tczew: ya exactly thats something i wanted to ask, what managing you all do.. is it making appropriate changes to the source code and alter its functioning in a better way??
<kklimonda> c2tarun: no, we just take what upstrem developers write and put it into nice packages we deliver to our users.
<c2tarun> ok, from where do u get developers write??
<kklimonda> almost every project have a site when source code is put on
<ari-tczew> we take source tarball from upstream website and pack it with Ubuntu policy
<c2tarun> ok
<c2tarun> it means a open source code project has its website, this website has project's source code. you take source code from there and pack them according to ubuntu policy and deliver them to ubuntu users. it means packaging is different for different operating systems. its just what we call it for ubuntu???
<kklimonda> more or less
<c2tarun> sorry... please correct me if i m wrong
<kklimonda> c2tarun: other operating systems are out of scope, but if by that you meant other distributions then you are right. I don't know what "its just what we call it for ubuntu???" mean.
<c2tarun> ok thanks a lot... thats what i needed for now :)
<c2tarun> i was going through this tutorial https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate  and at step six of method i got this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/534858/
<c2tarun> can anybody tell why i m getting this error :(
<kklimonda> you didn't do step 4
<ari-tczew> c2tarun: sudo apt-get install debhelper cdbs
<gaurava> can anyone tell me what is the usecase of debian/control.in file
<kklimonda> gaurava: it's a file that is being preprocessed (during the clean phase) to generate final debian/control
<kklimonda> gaurava: it's used by some debian teams to, for example, keep Uploaders field up to date.
<gaurava> ok .. actually I am looking at the nvidea package content and it contains both control.in and control file
<kklimonda> yes, they are both shipped and you edit control.in
<gaurava> ok is this like a configure.in file .. i just need to the change the XXXX.in file, during processing of the packet, other(resultant) file will automatically gets the changes
<kklimonda> it will most likely get updated when you run debuild -S (or similar command that results in the new source package)
<gaurava> ok thanks alot .. will give it a try
<c2tarun> hi .. i was going to the recipes on this page.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate   in step 7 on the place of brasero_0.6.1-0ubuntu1.dsc   i m getting this    brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu2.dsc  why so??
<c2tarun> hi .. i was going to the recipes on this page.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate   in step 7 of methods on the place of brasero_0.6.1-0ubuntu1.dsc   i m getting this    brasero_0.5.2-0ubuntu2.dsc  why so??
<kklimonda> c2tarun: you don't have to repeat yourself.
<c2tarun> sorry i forgot to mention i was on step 7 of which process :(
<kklimonda> also, don't ask the same questions on multiple channels at the same time.
<c2tarun> i m sorry again, i posted there by mistake
<kklimonda> patience is a virtue, especially on weekends.
<c2tarun> sorry :(
<bdrung> geser: will you fix more u-d-t bugs?
<geser> bdrung: why?
<bdrung> geser: i may upload u-d-t
<geser> bdrung: then go, I don't have any commits planned for u-d-t
<coolbhavi> How much time does it take to receive acknowledgement mail when we forward via submittodebian?
<coolbhavi> I am using gmail
<kklimonda> coolbhavi: depends - give it at least quater of the hour
<bdrung> BlackZ: around?
<coolbhavi> kklimonda, Its almost a hour and I didnt see any notification yet so asked
<kklimonda> coolbhavi: that's why it's a good idea to CC emails to yourself :)
<kklimonda> otherwise you will be wondering whether it was sent or did you break something :)
<coolbhavi> haha okay :)
<kklimonda> coolbhavi: an hour seems excessive but I do remember at least one situation when it took longer than that.
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: do you like using submittodebian? for me this script has got too many questions.
<BlackZ> hi bdrung, yes
<bdrung> BlackZ: can you give me an updated list of sponsored bugs?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, I better use the mail system itself then .. but I'll wait n see
<BlackZ> bdrung: will send you an e-mail in ~10 minutes
<bdrung> thanks
<bdrung> BlackZ: or you can paste it somewhere
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: I also use mail instead script
<coolbhavi> hmm
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: for me I usually got answer from BTS 5 minutes from request
<coolbhavi> okay
<coolbhavi> hey BlackZ all the best mate for your application :)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: you can create ~/.reportbugrc and disable some of those questions (like, for example, querying bts)
<BlackZ> bdrung: done
<BlackZ> coolbhavi: thanks
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: not needed. I'm get used to mail.
<bdrung> BlackZ: paste somewhere, but not in irc ;)
<bdrung> but thanks
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: are you going to update your merges in main?
<ari-tczew> some cases are commented like "please don't touch"
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: All the best for becoming a core-dev!
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, yes on them now :)
<BlackZ> bdrung: huh, I'm sure you received that list btw :)
<coolbhavi> and kklimonda isn't the default script functionality enough?
<BlackZ> thanks bilalakhtar
<kklimonda> coolbhavi: it's even too much - ari-tczew don't want to query bts because it takes too much time.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda, coolbhavi: I send mail from evolution with following template: http://paste.ubuntu.com/534898/
<ari-tczew> including patch as attachment
<ari-tczew> work done in 2-3 minutes instead answering to submittodebian 15 minutes and milion questions
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, kklimonda hmm thanks for your views :)
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: you should add this to your email template: "Usertags: origin-ubuntu natty ubuntu-patch"
<mdeslaur> ari-tczew: that's how debian and ubuntu track which patches came from ubuntu
<mdeslaur> (it's what submittodebian does)
<bdrung> BlackZ: you have my endorsement now
<BlackZ> bdrung: thanks!
<ari-tczew> mdeslaur: added.
<micahg> shouldn't fakesync versions be DEBIAN_VERSIONfakesyncX?
<ari-tczew> micahg: -1fakesync1
<ari-tczew> what's your case?
<micahg> not my case, just watching the changes (exo)
<hyperair> micahg: is it necessary to bump the version?
<hyperair> micahg: sometimes i fakesync without bumping the version, as long as i'm sure the package is identical.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: to be clear: I'm only asking for curiosity. I won't cry if I'll be banished.
<Rhonda> It never was about you getting banished. It was about getting you to understand that the CoC isn't arbitrary and the amount of contributions aren't a reason to excuse ignorance in that respect.
<micahg> hyperair: well, this was a new upstream version, so I'm not sure what the issue was
 * micahg will send an e-mail to -devel ML about it
<mr_pouit> micahg: no change from debian, but not uploaded to debian yetâ¦
<hyperair> mr_pouit: then use 0ubuntu1.
<hyperair> mr_pouit: if you really can't wait.
<Rhonda> And actually abusing this channel for testing, especially when several people told you that it's not the best idea to do it in here, isn't very friendly neither.
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, so it should either be 0ubuntu1 or -1 if the same tarball as Debian
<mr_pouit> hyperair: I can't wait, it won't be uploaded before the release, and needs to go through new
<hyperair> micahg: not quite correct. the tarball should always be the same as Debian, what matters is that the source package uploaded to debian and ubuntu are identical if they have the same version number.
<mr_pouit> (and I already use -0ubuntu1 for the ones that have ubuntu changes)
<micahg> mr_pouit: there's experimental for new upstreams in Debian and if there's a VCS tag to base the release from, people will upload simultenously to Ubuntu and Debian
<hyperair> mr_pouit: yeah, so if it can't wait, use 0ubuntu1. it's used for things like this.
<micahg> hyperair: yeah, I realized I didn't finish the thought, sorry
<hyperair> micahg: mind if i pm you for a bit?
<micahg> hyperair: sure
<micahg> hyperair: or rather, I don't mind :)
<hyperair> =)
<ScottK> hyperair: It's not just that the packages are identical.
<ebroder> micahg: I'm a little confused about the error you posted on bug #671358. Are you, you know, sure you had the orig tarball unpacked?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 671358 in mame (Ubuntu) "[upgrade] New upstream release 0.140" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671358
<mr_pouit> micahg: why would people upload simulatenously?
<mr_pouit> micahg: as soon as squeeze is released, everything will be synced
<ebroder> micahg: Because it doesn't use autogoo or anything, so there's just a makefile in the top-level, with a hard-coded clean target
<micahg> ebroder: that might be where I messed up, but if that's the case, the rules file should be fixed to take care of that I would think
<hyperair> ScottK: the tarball has to be identical, the debian.tar.gz/diff.gz should be identical, and the dsc should also be identical, where identical = same checksum.
<hyperair> ScottK: that enough for you? =p
<ScottK> hyperair: No.
<micahg> mr_pouit: because they want to stay in sync with Debian
<ScottK> You also want a .changes that indicates origin in Debian.
<hyperair> ah
<micahg> mr_pouit: then they don't have to worry about clearning NEW
<ScottK> The syncpackage script will do this.
<hyperair> ScottK: i didn't know that, i just used syncpackage.
<ScottK> That's what syncpackage does.
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, if they want to stay in sync with debian, they sync =]
<ebroder> micahg: debuild will run if you only have a debian/ directory and no source, but I don't think the rules file needs to detect if you've done that
<mr_pouit> (they don't upload both)
<ScottK> It might be instructive to diff a .changes made with dpkg-buildpackage and one made with syncpackage.
<micahg> mr_pouit: squeeze might not release for another 3 months, people don't want to wait, so they'll upload to experimental and Ubuntu off the same tag
<hyperair> ScottK: hmm yeah you're right.
<micahg> mr_pouit: ask bdrung
<hyperair> ScottK: i just viewed the source of the old syncpackage from pitti.
<ebroder> micahg: Unless you're saying that the get-orig-source target should unpack as well, which I could almost see
<mr_pouit> micahg: I'm also a member of the debian pkg-xfce team, so I know they won't upload soonâ¦
<micahg> ebroder: I believe the source was in teh right place, I'll check again
<ebroder> OOC, I saw that there's a syncSource request in the LP API. Is it just not hooked up?
<hyperair> ebroder: the policy manual stated that get-orig-source should only create a tarball and dump it into the current directory though.
<ebroder> mr_pouit: Could you ask them to upload to experimental?
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, so 0ubuntu1 might be better in this case, you might want to consider having and ubuntu branch in the pkg-xfce git tree, pkg-multimedia does this
<mr_pouit> micahg: svn =)
<mr_pouit> otherwise I would have done that a long ago :p
<micahg> mr_pouit: oh, ok, so yeah, 0ubuntu1 is probably better if Debian won't release any time soon
<micahg> and experimental is not an option
<mr_pouit> it's an option, but after squeeze (because the dd is currently busy with other squeeze-related things, such as desktop-base and the artwork)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: could you sponsor something for me @main?
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: if it's not under the umbrella of a team (-desktop, -server, etc.), yeah, why not
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: then not, because it's desktop team's related
<mr_pouit> I don't use gnome at all, so I prefer not to touch :P
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Just out of curiosity, did you read my two messages? No need to comment on it, I just want to be sure you've seen them.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: [20:08] <Rhonda> And actually abusing this channel for testing,   this one?
<Rhonda> And the one before, yes.
<ScottK> Rhonda: I've had disagreements with ari-tczew about how he behaves here (and continue to not be very happy about some things), but I haven't complained to the CC about him.
<Rhonda> I never did say so. I just know that you were waiting for a chat with him which to my understanding never happened.
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> I generally don't make a habit of announcing negative feedback I give people.  So I'm not sure exactly what that refers to.
<ari-tczew> very interesting, yes
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: dholbach got in touch with me some time ago
<mr_pouit> hyperair: micahg: okay, I put -0ubuntu1 for the next upload, so it should be fine (but if a random motu decides to merge it instead of syncing it, without checking, I'm going to regret =))
<hyperair> mr_pouit: any responsible motu who attempts to merge it will spot that there is no delta.
<ScottK> mr_pouit: If a random MOTU is touching XFCE packages without checking with you, then I think we should give them cause to regret.
<hyperair> mr_pouit: so i don't think that would be a problem, right?
<mr_pouit> ScottK: well, it happened recently (but as most of the packages are going to be rebuilt/updated for xfce 4.8, I'm afraid they only wasted their time, which is probably worse, they could have done something useful instead :/)
<mr_pouit> hyperair: I hope so :)
<hyperair> mr_pouit: you could also include a note in merges.ubuntu.com, i believe there's a space there you can add a comment.
<ScottK> mr_pouit: Well if they learn something from the experience (which might be as little as "check with mr_pouit before messing with XFCE", then it's not without value.
<ari-tczew> how to fix apt-file search? I did upgrade to natty and 'apt-file search
<ari-tczew> doesn't work. output is clear
<ebroder> apt-file update?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: it works, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-14
<eayoungs> disconnect
<tumbleweed> bdrung: urgh, sorry, I temporarily broke our PPA. I accidentally jumped from 0.134 to 0.136 and then fixed it. I'll update the daily build to hardcode 0.136 until we've uploaded 0.135
<hrw> cjwatson: sorry for mess. will do it better next time
<dholbach> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> morning
<Laney> Subject: haskell-csv_0.1.2-1~bpo60+1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into squeeze-backports
<Laney> bdrung: ^
<Laney> also, good morning :-)
<nigelb> Morning Laney
<cemc> broder: seems to be ok this time, tested the package and I've also updated the bugreport
<Rhonda> huch
<Rhonda> $> apt-get source qcake  # does fetch me 0.7.2-2build1 instead of what I expected from debian sid :)
<Laney> pull-debian-source :-)
<dupondje> pbuilder really doesn't show cleanly what depend its missing when I try to build something :(
<dupondje> any idea's how I can find out what one is th blocker ?
<dupondje> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/738142/
<dupondje> whats missing now :s
<geser> that's the reason I use gdebi for build-depends installation as it passes the list of packages to apt instead of a dummy package
<cjwatson> suspicious for *all* those to be virtual.  I wonder if it's forgotten about some important Packages files.
<cjwatson> if it's etch, well, who knows
<geser> dupondje: login into that pbuilder and check if the sources.list looks good
<dupondje> deb http://archive.kernel.org/debian-archive/debian-security/ etch/updates main
<dupondje> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/archive/ etch main contrib non-free
<dupondje> looks fine :s
<cjwatson> apt-get update and see if you can e.g. 'apt-cache show autoconf'
<dupondje> works fine
<geser> hmm
<dupondje> its weird
<dupondje> tried to apt-get some packages, and it works just fine in the pbuilder
<dupondje> so it can get the packages
<dupondje> hmz
<dupondje> 646008
<dupondje> err
<dupondje> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=646008
<ubottu> Debian bug 646008 in pbuilder "pbuilder dependency resolving failing under Etch chroot" [Important,Open]
<dupondje> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://ftp.debian.org etch/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_etch_main_binary-amd64_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
<dupondje> keeps trying to look at those files also for some reason :)
<StevenK> dupondje: etch is no longer on ftp.d.o
<dupondje> I know, I supplied --mirror archive.de.debian.org .. but still looks for that file somehow
<StevenK> archive.de.debian.org == NXDOMAIN
<dupondje> errr ftp.de.debian.org
<StevenK> Etch isn't on http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/ either
<StevenK> Try --mirror http://ftp.de.debian.org/archive/
<dupondje> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/archive/ etch main contrib non-free
<dupondje> have this now in source.list
<dupondje> sources.list*
<StevenK> That should actually work
<StevenK> However, pbuilder does its work in two steps
<StevenK> There is the debootstrap phase, which uses --debootstrap-mirror or so, and the second phase, which installs build-essential and so on, which uses --mirror
<StevenK> Oh, you have to use --debootstrapopts
<StevenK> --debootstrapopts http://ftp.de.debian.org/archive/ --mirror http://ftp.de.debian.org/archive/
<dupondje> lets try :)
<dupondje> I: running debootstrap
<dupondje> /usr/sbin/debootstrap
<dupondje> E: No such script: http://ftp.debian.org/debian
<dupondje> what ?! :)
<dupondje> lets try again
<dupondje> nope :(
<dupondje> W: Couldn't stat source package list http://ftp.debian.org etch/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.debian.org_debian_dists_etch_main_binary-amd64_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
<dupondje> still same error :(
<Laney> you probably want archive.debian.org
<dupondje> lets see if that works
<Laney> the dists/ directory is useful to see what a mirror has
<dupondje> I: Retrieving Packages
<dupondje> and then nothing ... :)
<Laney> wait?
<Laney> http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/Release
<dupondje> its still showing Retrieving Packages :s
<dupondje> weird
<dupondje> that doesn't seem to work, still waiting for 'Retrieving Packages' :(
<dupondje> pbuilder-dist etch create --mirror http://archive.debian.org/debian/
<dupondje> bleh :( unable to fix it :(
<dupondje> pfft, whatever I try to do, it wants to use ftp.debian.org
<geser> check with --debug-echo if pbuilder-dist does correctly pass your --mirror to the real pbuilder
<dupondje> ['sudo', 'HOME=/home/dupondje', 'ARCH=amd64', 'DIST=etch', 'pbuilder', '--build', '--distribution', 'etch', '--buildresult', '/home/dupondje/pbuilder/etch_result/', '--aptcache', '/var/cache/apt/archives/', '--override-config', '--basetgz', '/home/dupondje/pbuilder/etch-base.tgz', '--logfile', '/home/dupondje/pbuilder/etch_result/last_operation.log', '--bindmounts', '/var/cache/archive/', '--mirror', 'http://ftp.debian.org/debian', '--debootstrapo
<dupondje> 2 times --mirror it seems :s
<geser> try setting MIRRORSITE="http://archive.debian.org/debian/" before calling pbuilder-dist (I hope I read the code correctly)
<dupondje> doesn't seem to work neither :(
<geser> let's see if bdrung or tumbleweed can help you as they hopefully know better how the mirror selection in pbuilder-dist work
<tumbleweed> there is no mirror selection
<tumbleweed> but we just fixed that in trunk
<dupondje> where exactly ? :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: lp:ubuntu-dev-tools (or just grab a recent build from the ubuntu-dev-tools ppa: https://launchpad.net/~udt-developers/+archive/daily
<dupondje> anyway did some mods in the code now, and its working :)
<dupondje> finally :)
<dupondje> thanks all!
<tumbleweed> Laney: how tolerant are we about duplicates in ubuntu_uplaod_history?
<Laney> in what way?
<tumbleweed> it looks like the mboxes are going to get some duplicates
<tumbleweed> same history item imported in a second run
<Laney> from your data?
<tumbleweed> I'm cleaning them up by hand, but I'm wondering if that's necessar, and wondering if that'll be happening in the future too
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> finished importing, btw
<tumbleweed> just topping up the ends, with uploads since I imported each series, which is why I'm seeing this
<tumbleweed> I think getPublishedSources() continues picking up new records that land while you are iterating thorugh it
<Laney> nice
<Laney> so we should go back to taking the mtime at the end?
<Laney> end of the loop
<tumbleweed> well, then we risk losing things. Which is why I'm asking how duplicate-sensitive we are
<tumbleweed> also, we are trusting the Dates in the changes files, which can be a month or two out of sync with the publication date
<tumbleweed> don't know if you'd noticed that
<Laney> not as created_since_date?
<Laney> i don't see how you lose things if you getPublishedSources behaves as you say and we take the timestamp at the right time
<tumbleweed> I mostly noticed it with kernel SRUs, which probably spenda while being tested in a PPA, so that might be correct behavior
<tumbleweed> Laney: well, we don't know at what point it stops noticing new things
<tumbleweed> but I'm pretty sure it picked up things that appered during a 8 hour run
<tumbleweed> oh my per-release changes were probably also completely unhelpful for your normal cronjob use, because it would only look at the devel release. I've just committed a fix for that.
<Laney> you could take the latest created date you see as the next starting time
<tumbleweed> that sounds correct
<Laney> maybe +1 if it is inclusive
<tumbleweed> it is according to the docs
<Laney> i start seeing python i don't understand
 * Laney quivers
<tumbleweed> **params ?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> did lp have correct changesfile links all the way back?
<tumbleweed> it's pretty straight-forward :)
<tumbleweed> check the log files: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/out/ (I can tar + gz if you want)
<tumbleweed> there were a good number of missing changes files in the middle, and the occasional missing changelog everywhere
<Laney> if it did then we can forget about merging with the old data
<tumbleweed> grep Traceback out/*.log | wc -l
<tumbleweed> 14
<tumbleweed> $ grep skipping out/*.log | wc -l
<tumbleweed> 14
<tumbleweed> ah, those went together, nm that
<Laney> seems ok
<Laney> i had already merged your branch which defaulted to the dev release :(
<tumbleweed> ooh, a changes file without a version :)
<Laney> so if you can make sure that < precise are current when i take them
<tumbleweed> ok, oneiric is still importing
<tumbleweed> and I think we can get the samp files to behave correctly before the SRU people accept anything more
<tumbleweed> $ grep '404 for \.changes' out/*.log | wc -l
<tumbleweed> 567
<cjwatson> dear etherpad, stop signing me out every five minutes
<ogra_> builtin typing break :)
<Laney> just got a text reading "Steak!"
<Laney> therefore I am afraid UDD will have to wait :P
<tumbleweed> \o/
<Resistance> ;p;
 * tumbleweed should eat too
<Resistance> lol *
<Laney> however I discovered timestamp.resolution
<Laney> params['created_since_date'] = since + timedelta.resolution or summat
<Laney> ttyl
<cemc> broder: ping.
<broder> cemc: yes?
<cemc> broder: what happens now with that pdns-recursor backporting?
<cemc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/888627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888627 in Oneiric Backports "please backport pdns-recursor 3.3-2 from Precise" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Resistance> hey broder i have a question for ya if you wouldnt mind a /query
<broder> cemc: backports require an archive admin to process, so we're waiting for them to do that
<broder> Resistance: yes?
<Resistance> broder:  you have the message via /query... partly because i dont want to fill the channel and partly because i had already typed /msg broder :P
<cemc> broder: right, ok. thanks for the help. or, better yet thanks for doing it ;)
<broder> cemc: i'll have to upload the hardy backport by hand since there are source changes, but i want to hold off on doing that until the others have been processed
<cemc> broder: got it. let me know if there's anything I can help with
<Resistance> broder:  also, how often is packages.ubuntu.com updated with what has been put into the <dist>-backports repos for each distribution/release?
<broder> Resistance: i know nothing about how packages.u.c is run
<Resistance> broder:  then perhaps you can tell me how i can check the oneiric repos from a natty system?
 * Resistance isnt even sure that's possible
<broder> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package> will list the versions in all pockets for all current releases
<broder> that's source package, not binary package
<Resistance> indeed
<Resistance> oop nevermind, i got my answer
<Resistance> :)
 * Resistance found what he was looking for
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, I'm not convinced we have the right stamp file handling yet. The things that were uploaded during the scraping appared in the right places alphabetically. That means, to me, that we can't know whether we picked up everything that was uploaded during scraping
<Laney> let's just ask someone what it is supposed to do
<Laney> if it is indeed like that then we'll just have to ignore things uploaded after we made the request
<Laney> created
<tumbleweed> that's another option
<tumbleweed> Resistance: please don't worry about asking questions here. That's what the channel's for. Generally asking thinsg in public is better than private, because more people can help out
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  true, but it wasnt a support question  ;P
<tumbleweed> Resistance: there's also rmadison (the command)
<tumbleweed> this isn't a support channel, it's (amongst other things) a place where people learn their way around ubuntu development
<Resistance> indeed
<Resistance> next time i'll post here :P
 * Resistance goes back to hunting down an elusive bug in a program he coded.
<blair> hello, i've prepared a merge to update the rbtools package (https://code.launchpad.net/~blair/ubuntu/precise/rbtools/rbtools-fix-886436/+merge/81388) and it's failing for a reviewer with this bzr merge error: bzr: ERROR: None 0.3.4 was not found in <PristineTarSource ...>.  What am I missing?  It looks like I just need to run bzr merge-upstream?  I already unpacked and dropped the upstream tarball in this branch
<blair> does bzr merge-upstream manage everything with dropping a new tarball into an existing checkout?
<tumbleweed> blair: no idea. But you should be trying to get that through debian, if possible
<blair> tumbleweed, i have a ticket opened, cloned debian's git repository for the package, updated the package and pushed it to github for them to download, but there's been no movement yet
<tumbleweed> ah. I see that debian bug, but no mention of your github repo in it
<blair> ok, i was privately emailing the debian maintainer, i'll put that into the ticket
<tumbleweed> any reply from him?
<blair> tumbleweed, no.  also, i just updated the ticket with my work, github location and a few questions
<tumbleweed> blair: to answer your questions, git-buildpcakge includes tools to make importing new upstream sources easy
<tumbleweed> and yes, it's normal to delete files during build. We delete files that get automatically generated. If we don't delete them, our tools assume we intentionally modified them.
<blair> tumbleweed, thanks, i'll remember using git-buildpackage
<broder> tumbleweed: hmm...so backportpackage doesn't actually look at the forward deps/build-deps of a package
<broder> i know that's obviously tricky because of substvar stuff
<tumbleweed> broder: you mean check if it's backportable?
<broder> yeah
<tumbleweed> yeah, that can't be completely analyzed statically
<broder> right
<broder> i'm looking at bug #890191. usb-modeswitch-data has a breaks: usb-modeswitch (<< older than natty or so), and i'm trying to figure out if an automated tool should be determining that so i don't have to, and if so which automated tool that should be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 890191 in lucid-backports "usb-modeswitch-data" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/890191
<broder> (i.e. requestbackport vs. my backport-bug-supervising-bot pony)
<CarlFK> james_w:     http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/view/head:/debian/squid-deb-proxy.postinst   Revision ID: james.westby@ubuntu.com-20110630120919-bu7qhz6foun4r58y
<CarlFK> james_w:  that's you, right?  (and ping.. no clue if you are around)
<james_w> CarlFK, yeah, but it's a bot
<tumbleweed> broder: test build it :)
<broder> yeah, probably the right answer
<CarlFK> james_w: what's a bot?
<james_w> CarlFK, a robot, an unattended process
<tumbleweed> broder:  a lot of the time, it's tight a debhelper dependency that could be loosened with some rules tweaks, or something like that
<CarlFK> um.. never mind the bot confusion.. that postinst - I think it is stepping on the installer's proxy setting:             Bug #889656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 889656 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "installer stops using proxy " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889656
<tumbleweed> broder: it's certainly possible to highlight potential problems, but there'd be false positives & negatives
<broder> yeah. i think i'll plan to put that sort of logic into my bot, since that way i can change it without having to push out patches
<CarlFK> wondering if my conclusion is reasonable
<james_w> CarlFK, sounds possible
<james_w> I don't know any specifics about that package though
<CarlFK> james_w: k - I'll add it to the bug.
<CarlFK> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/files/head:/debian/
<CarlFK> that has both squid-deb-proxy-client and squid-deb-proxy
<CarlFK> what scripts get run if I just install squid-deb-proxy-client ?
<RAOF> CarlFK: If you just install squid-deb-proxy-client there are no maintainer scripts.
<CarlFK> RAOF: k .. where is the list of what gets installed where?
<CarlFK> I am guessing this gets put in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/view/head:/30autoproxy
<RAOF> CarlFK: debian/squid-deb-proxy-client.install
<CarlFK> RAOF: forgive my ignorance... what do those 2 lines tell me?
<RAOF> Those are the things which are in debian/tmp after the upstream build/install process has finished that will be in the squid-deb-proxy-client package.
<broder> CarlFK: you might want to check out the packaging guide if you're trying to understand how a particular package works. http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/debian-dir-overview.html in particular seems relevant
<CarlFK> broder: hoping not to have to go that deep :)
<CarlFK> but I just found what I was looking for
<broder> i think you already might be that deep
<CarlFK> heh
<broder> (the page i linked is honestly fairly surface-level and introductory)
<CarlFK> woo... I am on my way back up!  broken install fixed with: rm /target/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/30autoproxy
<CarlFK> which seems enough detail for the bug report
<CarlFK> fixing it is someone elses problem
<broder> CarlFK: it sounds like squid-deb-proxy-client just doesn't work inside a chroot
<CarlFK> broder: depends on your definition of "work" :)
<CarlFK> my install uses d-i mirror/http/proxy string http://chris:8000/
<CarlFK> squid-deb-proxy-client seems to clobber that
<broder> ...right. that seems like it's by design
<CarlFK> yeah, I am not sure what 'right' is
<broder> i think there's an issue that /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover will return a bogus result if there's no avahi-advertised proxy available
<broder> but squid-deb-proxy-client's design is that you install it and it starts using that proxy
<CarlFK> broder: well, the proxy is there and advertising..
<broder> advertising over avahi?
<CarlFK> yep
<broder> ok, then my next guess would be that the debian-installer environment doesn't have avahi setup and working, and the package relies on that
<CarlFK> install finished and rebooted.. I need to get back into the installer shell and see if I can run apt-avahi-discover
<CarlFK> right
<broder> that seems pretty likely, given the constraints on d-i
<CarlFK> im actually wondering why it is stepping on the installers settings
<CarlFK> my guess is the installer is doing a chroot before things are setup enough
<broder> it's stepping on the installer settings because the purpose of the package is to step on settings
<broder> if you don't want the package changing the proxy settings, you shouldn't install it
<broder> that's how this particular package works
<CarlFK> but the installer has it's own settings
<CarlFK> kinda like it has its own root user
<broder> no, the installer has settings that it injects into the target chroot when it starts
<broder> anyway, i argue that the real bug is that apt-avahi-discover prints out something (and even worse, something starting with "http://") when it can't find anything
<broder> if it exited without printing anything when it didn't find a result, apt would ignore it and everything would be fine
<CarlFK> ~ # chroot /target /usr/share/squid-deb-proxy-client/apt-avahi-discover
<CarlFK> Failed to create client object: Daemon not running
<CarlFK> but it returns: http://:/
<broder> exactly
<broder> (the "failed to create client object" bit is probably not problematic, because it's almost certainly printed to stderr and not stdout
<broder> )
<CarlFK> so my solution is to not install that as part of the install.  I'll let someone else figure out how it should behave
<CarlFK> bug 889656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 889656 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "installer stops using proxy " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/889656
<broder> bah. you're going to make me go fix it now
<CarlFK> lol
<broder> i'm supposed to be working
<CarlFK> didn't know you were the someone else
<broder> i get irritated when i see simple bugs where i understand the solution unfixed
<Resistance> haha lol
<broder> it's something of a character flaw
<CarlFK> I know the feeling
<CarlFK> I pretty much spent all day tracking this down, even though it wasn't causing a real problem
<CarlFK> I just had to allow a bit of traffic to not be proxied,and I am just using the proxy for speed
<CarlFK> the speed boost will probably never save me 8 hours :)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I think I've come to the end of my current u-d-t TODO list. So I'm ready for an upload whenever you are.
<tumbleweed> I haven't moved the EditFile stuff. If you feel strongly about that, please move it.
<tumbleweed> there's some biggish changes, I want people to use them and find the bugs I couldn't :)
<tumbleweed> actually, not so big
<CarlFK> broder: thanks for your help - I am off for today.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: C:265:PbuilderDist.get_command: Invalid name "di" (should match [a-z_][a-z0-9_]{2,30}$)
<bdrung> in pbuilder-dist
<tumbleweed> yeah, I know :) at the time I used that, the line was not easily wrappable
<tumbleweed> committed
<bdrung> requestbackport -> W: 75:find_rdepends: Unused argument 'package'
<tumbleweed> ah, I reworked the substitution
<bdrung> W:149:request_backport: Access to a protected member _lpobject of a client class
<tumbleweed> not much alternative there
<tumbleweed> I suppose one could extend lpapicache further
<bdrung> yes, it should have a public function
<tumbleweed> fortunatly, that's easy. There are areas of lpapicache that are hard to extend
<bdrung> tumbleweed: C:194:EditBugReport.get_report: Invalid name "m" (should match [a-z_][a-z0-9_]{2,30}$)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: m -> match
<bdrung> in question.py
 * tumbleweed finds that silly, m is a common variable when doing regex stuff in python, but sure
<bdrung> tumbleweed: m isn't common for me
<bdrung> i, j, k, and f are common
<bdrung> tumbleweed: besides that, go ahead
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, uploading
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-15
<tumbleweed> bdrung: daily builds back to normal again
<tumbleweed> ooh, a shiny 'cancel build' button. Seems to only apply to queued builds, though. It can't euthenase builds in progress...
<psusi> any idea why you could be getting errors like: /home/psusi/btrfs-progs/scrub.c:1342: undefined reference to `pthread_create', despite the fact that you are compiling with -lpthread?
<broder> psusi: is that a link error or a compile error?
<hyperair> looks like a linker error.
<psusi> yep, link error
<hyperair> i would be inclined to think that you're missing libpthread.so?
<broder> psusi: is it a -as-needed error?
<broder> (i.e. do you need to move -lpthread further down the command line?)
<psusi> huh?
<tumbleweed> with --as-needed, the order of the libraries is significant
<psusi> I seem to have /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0, which points to libpthread-2.13.so
<psusi> --as-needed doesn't appear to be on the command line
<tumbleweed> it's implicit on oneiric/precise
<hyperair> psusi: maybe pasting the full build log will help
<psusi> ohh.. so what does that do?
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition
<psusi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/738814/
<tumbleweed> (also, OT, but IIRC one should use -pthread instead of -lpthread. -pthread acts as both a preprocessor and linker flag)
<hyperair> hmm does it?
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can partner repos be integrated with local ubuntu mirror using deb mirror ?
<hyperair> psusi: push -lpthread to the back of the gcc command and see if that helps
<tumbleweed> psusi: yeah, put your -pthread after all the .o s
<psusi> hrm.... so which is it, use -pthread, or move the -lpthread?
<tumbleweed> psusi: move it
<tumbleweed> the using -pthread thing was orthogonal. It popped into my head when I saw -lpthread
<psusi> so.. why does the order matter?  I mean hasn't everyone who has ever written a makefile assumed they can put the -l flags first?
<tumbleweed> psusi: there was some explanation in that wiki page link I pasted
<tumbleweed> there's more on Debian's page: http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<psusi> well, reordering the arguments seems to do it... as fubar as that is...
<astraljava> Hi guys, I made a small change to Studio's desktop seed. Do we need to request a SRU for this to become effective? The change adds a new package, previously we only had indicator-sound but that isn't enough to see the volume icon in the Indicator Plugin. I added the -gtk2 package that does that.
<astraljava> Oh sorry, this was for ubuntustudio.oneiric seeds.
<micahg> astraljava: you just need to get a bug in the sponsorship queue
<astraljava> micahg: I was hoping for such an answer. Thanks! I'll get on it.
<micahg> astraljava: no need for a debdiff, just give a link to the branch with the seed in the bug
<astraljava> micahg: Excellent. Thanks so much!
<dholbach> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> morning
<Laney> tumbleweed: it's %prog not %progname for optparse
<Laney> "Usage: reverse-dependsname [options] package" ;-)
<tumbleweed> Laney: thanks
<tumbleweed> btw, we are still seeing uploads fall through the gap, I must work out why...
 * Laney is making use of reverse-depends -b to subscribe to all haskell packages
<Laney> did you find out how getPublishedSources works?
<tumbleweed> Laney: nobody replied to me
<Laney> sadness
<Laney> would an upper limit have any problems?
<tumbleweed> that's what I'm currently using
<Laney> oh lord, won't you give me, some changes mboxes
<Daviey> tumbleweed: what are you trying to find out?
<Daviey> Laney: are you parsing mboxes?
<Laney> not any more
<Daviey> good! :)
<Laney> that actually worked rather reliably
<Daviey> Although i am suprised LP api exposes everything you need as a replacement.
<Daviey> Laney: sure, just slow and cumbersome, not to mention that -changes mailing list hasn't quite been reliable.
<Laney> it doesn't get all uploads
<Laney> but it wasn't very cumbersome, there are some alright libraries to parse mboxes
<Laney> using lp has its own problems - publications don't correspond directly to uploads
<Laney> and we haven't found out how to not miss some publications yet
<Daviey> Laney: Yes, i was using one to generate upload history for a given user.
<Daviey> Took 2 hours to do a posh grep of historic -changes.:/
<Laney> you didn't use my shiny UDD table? :-(
<Daviey> Laney: this predated your UDD magic.
<Laney> aha
<Daviey> bug 610491 is a pain for me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 610491 in Launchpad itself "[API] Please expose getPublishedSources(package_creator,package_signer)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/610491
<tumbleweed> Daviey: yeah, trying to find out how to use getPublishedSources reliably
<Daviey> tumbleweed: what is it missing for you?
<Laney> is the problem that things can go from pending to published?
<tumbleweed> Laney: I considered that. We may want to cut off timestamp - 1hr or something
<tumbleweed> Daviey: it's hard to do multiple runs and not either get duplicates, or missing items
<Laney> we should probably also have lock files
<Laney> hmm, no, we don't ask for only Published records
<tumbleweed> Daviey: not being able to search by package_creator,package_signer is why I set up http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<Daviey> tumbleweed: Oooo, nice
<Laney> it'd be good if PPAs could be NotAutomatic
 * tumbleweed wonders why the znc backport doesn't show up on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=3
<Laney> dear bzr branch, please to being faster, thanks
<Resistance> broder:  i got some notice about the znc backport being accepted... does that mean that the bug that was blocking it was resolved?  Or did they grab the binaries from the PPA?
<psusi> I have what I suppose is a UDD question.  According to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/btrfs-tools, the upstream for the package is Btrfs Tools => trunk, which is auto imported from the upstream git repo...
<psusi> looking at the bzr history however, this appears to be false.  The actual upstream appears to be debian, which is tarball auto imported from debian source packages... ergo, you can't do a bzr merge from the Btrfs Tools trunk because they have no common ancestry
<psusi> isn't this borked?
<cjwatson> UDD branches aren't in general mergeable from upstream; that's a later phase of the UDD plan
<cjwatson> they should in general (not necessarily always) be mergeable from the Debian branch, which is where in practice we do nearly all our merging from
<cjwatson> it was a question of priorities
<psusi> so shouldn't launchpad be saying that the debian branch is upstream?
<psusi> and is there a way to work around this and merge from upstream upstream?  I'm thinking that it will require rebasing all of the debian/ubuntu changes onto upstream...
<psusi> which would then break the ability to merge from the debian branch...
<murlidhar> is there a plan to include firefox8 into the official repositories ?
<psusi> hrm... what if you were to find the correct upstream revision that the debian tarball came from, and then do a merge from there into the debian branch?  It would be a no change merge, but then would provide the common ancestor allowing us to merge directly from upstream in the future, wouldn't it?
<psusi> ohh, but you couldn't do that merge because of no common ancestor... argh.
<cjwatson> well, launchpad is saying what the upstream *project* is.  I don't know if it points to the upstream *branch* somewhere
<cjwatson> merging from upstream would require a full rebase of both Debian and Ubuntu, yes
<cjwatson> and given that most packaging work of that form is cherry-picking into debian/patches/ anyway, it's a relatively low priority for a lot of packages
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Specification is the overall phased plan BTW
<cjwatson> it's a huge project; we're more or less at the end of phase 2
<l3on> debfx, hi! :)
<debfx> l3on: hi
<l3on> debfx, hi... I read your reply to mrtg merge :)=
<l3on> and you're right
<l3on> I'm rebuilding it .. :)
<debfx> great :)
<l3on> debfx, do you suggest to append a dep3 header at patch ?
<debfx> l3on: yes, always
<l3on> debfx, sorry for annoying you :P...
<l3on> these are my first merges,, so ... :P
<l3on> In Origin: what you suggest ?
<l3on> There is no specific page in changelog when patch was introduced the first time...
<l3on> s/page/lp bug
<debfx> in this case Description and Author is enough
<l3on> oki.. author I set: Soren Hansen <soren@ubuntu.com>
<l3on> it's the first guy introduced patch
<Laney> mrtg has had that delta for so long
<Laney> why isn't it upstream?
<Laney> what is it even for, can we get rid of it?
<l3on> boh :/
<l3on> debfx, ok.. I sent new patches
<l3on> mmm LP does not work well with mail :/ what a mess in that reply!
<broder> Resistance: no. it means that the upload of znc itself was accepted, but the build will fail because swig hasn't been backported and the issue has not yet been resolved
<Rhonda> hmm, somehow I don't get ppa build order â¦
<Resistance> broder:  ah, i see.  but it *will* be backported once that bug has been resolved?
<broder> Resistance: znc itself has been backported, but it won't be able to build until swig is backported and the bug is fixed
<broder> it's stuck in something of a purgatory state called "depwait" because its dependencies aren't all there
<Resistance> ah
<broder> see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/znc/0.202-1~natty1/+build/2926769
<broder> so the status of the bug is accurate, if a bit deceptive
<Rhonda> natty was build quite quickly, but the others aren't catching up at all
<Rhonda> https://launchpad.net/~rhonda/+archive/wesnoth-devel/+packages
<Rhonda> oh, one needs to complain, oneiric started building :)
<Resistance> i assume you're aware of why complaining is bad?
<Resistance> FWIW... i think the builders are just being slowish
<Rhonda> It depends on how you define "complaining" and how it is worded. I don't think mine was that unreasonable, actually rather a question on what might be happening.
<Barzogh> hey all
<soren> l3on, Laney: I have no recollection of that patch, to be honest, but I don't see any reason why I didn't get it upstream.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-16
<dholbach> good morning
<cemc> broder: ping. pdns-recursor landed in -backports, except hardy
<broder> cemc: yeah, it's stuck in binary NEW, because the hardy version didn't have the -dbg package
 * broder goes and pokes someone
<broder> cemc: looks like we're still waiting on the powerpc build: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pdns-recursor/3.3-2~hardy1/+build/2930110
<broder> but one of the admins went and scored it up, so it should run soon
<cemc> broder: nice, thanks
<broder> tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/740052/
<broder> (first time running not-from-bzr)
<broder> also, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/740055/
<Laney> tumbleweed: in the absence of anything else, should we see if created_before_date can be done?
<dholbach> tumbleweed: thanks for your fix for 781003
<Laney> i approve of this udt release
 * Laney seal of approval
<tumbleweed> dholbach: np. Should have done it ages ago. I don't know why I was thinking it'd be more invasive...
<tumbleweed> broder: urgh, that's pretty obvious in hindsight
<tumbleweed> Laney: clearly you haven't run into the bug broder pointed out :)
<Laney> hah
<Laney> i run it out of bzr
<tumbleweed> broder: hrm, not so sure about the second one. I'll have to reproduce it, I guess
<tumbleweed> anyway, I'd better race another upload through, without waiting for lp to pick it up from debian. broken requestsync and submittodebian... :/
<Laney> syncpackage --no-lp is fine if it's pressing imho
<tumbleweed> yeah
<dholbach> :)
<tumbleweed> broder: any ideas about that requestbackport issue? the development launchpads are all too out of date to test it on
<tumbleweed> broder: your problem now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/oneiric-backports/+bug/891112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 891112 in Oneiric Backports "Please backport powertop-1.13 1.13-1ubuntu2 (universe) from precise" [Undecided,New]
<CarlFK> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/view/head:/debian/squid-deb-proxy.templates
<CarlFK> shouldn't I be prompted with those questions when I install that?
<tumbleweed> CarlFK: no, because they use low priority
<tumbleweed> we don't want to show every question. Only questions where there is no sensible default
<CarlFK> tumbleweed: where is the priority set?
<tumbleweed> CarlFK: in the config script. But you don't want to change those priorities, they look right
<CarlFK> tumbleweed: wasn't thinking of chaning, just trying to figure out how it works
<CarlFK> is "config script" = http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/view/head:/debian/squid-deb-proxy.config
<CarlFK> db_input *low* squid
<CarlFK> got it
<broder> tumbleweed: ok. maybe it's a credential issue or something. i'll bother #launchpad if i run into it again
<tumbleweed> broder: no, it was a bug, I had \n in the title
<broder> ah, i see
<roaksoax> dholbach: howdy! I was wondering if the documentation somewhere on udd shows and explains what are the files created when merging (such as <file>.THIS and <file>.OTHER)
<dholbach> barry, ^ do you know?
<barry> roaksoax: that's a more general bzr question, but i'm positive i've seen some documentation on that.  /me searches
<roaksoax> barry: thanks!
<chrisccoulson> something like http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.0.92/en/user-guide/conflicts.html ?
<dholbach> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.2.4/en/user-guide/resolving_conflicts.html
<barry> chrisccoulson: yep, that's it thanks
<dholbach> (in the recent version)
<barry> dholbach: that's the other one i was thinking about
<roaksoax> chrisccoulson barry: yep. cool! Thanks! ;)
<l3on> Hi all... Is there somone that would review some of my proposing merges ? :)
<l3on> *someone
<Kiall> If there anyone around familiar with git-buildpackage? Was hoping someone could help me understand its submodule support. Specifically, Keeping the debian folder in 1 branch, and overlaying that onto a tag with submodules... Everything bar the submodules works, and I'm not sure if I've set something up wrong, of if I'm trying to do something unsupported. Thanks :)
<Majost> Hello, I am trying to create a new CDBS package in 11.10 -- and I discovered the cdbs option is missing from dh_make
<Majost> Is there a new way to use the CDBS packaging template?
<Majost> ahh
<Majost> nm
<Majost> just looked at the dh-make changelog and saw it was changed to a rules format
<broder> Majost: i would recommend using dh these days instead of cdbs, unless you have a specific reason not to. i think most people in here would probably do the same.
<Majost> I always found cdbs pretty easy to use for most stuff
<Majost> whats the reason for the shift to dh and phasing out of cdbs?
<tumbleweed> I always find I have to read the source code when I want to do anything non-trivial with it
<tumbleweed> the same applies to dh, I suppose, but that's way more readable
<mok0> Majost: Beats me. dh sucks imho
<Majost> hah
<mok0> cdbs is clean gnumake macros
<broder> i used to be a big fan of cdbs too, before dh 7 came out, but with dh 7 i'd argue you get all of the benefits of cdbs (which are basically a short rules file) without the pain of having to understand their abuse of make syntax just to change the arguments to a debhelper script
<mok0> broder: I very much prefer a hand-crafted rules file
<Majost> hrm
<mok0> or cdbs
<broder> mok0: yeah, i hate those. they're terrible violations of DRY
<Majost> broder: I will have to try out dh7 with my next package
<mok0> broder: thing is, no 2 packages are alike
<Majost> I've already finished the package I started earlier
<broder> that's not true. most packages are at least 75% alike
<mok0> broder: not the ones I've worked with
<broder> have you ever built a package you didn't call dh_md5sums or dh_installdeb on?
<tumbleweed> mok0: I can find you the same bug in many many packages' debian/rules files
<broder> or any of the dozen others that you never touch, but have to remember to call in the right order lest something blow up?
<mok0> broder:  no :-)
<tumbleweed> getting them fixed one maintainer at a time is crazy-slow
<mok0> broder: There are a few idioms that are repeated, yes
<broder> mok0: i disagree. i think that *most* idioms are repeated
<broder> and dh 7 lets you capture just the things that are non-standard, however many of those things there may be
<mok0> broder: you are permitted to disagree :-)
<mok0> broder: anything non-standard and dh7 lets you down
<broder> nah, override_dh_auto_build: and you can do whatever you want
<mok0> broder: oh, and what does that do to the "simple" rules file? :-)
<mok0> I don't find a bunch of overrides easier to understand
<tumbleweed> mok0: it keeps it simple, with your rules file only declaring how it differs from the norm
<broder> mok0: it makes about 3 lines longer, but you *still* don't have to write all of the standard dh_* idioms by hand
<mok0> broder: I like to see what's going on
<mok0> but when I'm lazy, I like cdbs :-)
<Laney> must be crazy, I'm running ./rocketfuel-setup
<tumbleweed> eep why?
<Laney> fancied seeing how hard fixing LP bugs are
<tumbleweed> you realise we'll all remember that now... :)
<Resistance> lol
<nigelb> Laney: \o/
<Laney> the real one I want to fix is NotAutomatic for PPAs
<nigelb> Famous last words...
<Laney> nigelb is going to mentor me!
<nigelb> what! No!
<nigelb> Anything touching or going anywhere nearby Soyuz and I will run in the other direction.
<broder> awesome! i successfully stalled long enough that somebody else is looking into it! :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: after that, sync sponsorship
<Laney> heh
<Laney> i tried again to get that escalated today
<Laney> if only it was doing bzr branch lp:launchpad in parallel with this massive package install
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's a non-trivial checkout
 * tumbleweed has one on a machine far away, with real bandwidth
<Laney> zzzzzzzzzz
<Laney> losing the will to live
<Resistance> anyone able to give me some pointers about setting up a packaging recipe?
<Resistance> in launchpad
 * Resistance has no clue how to begin, or if it'll even work
<Laney> #launchpad is the best place for that
<Resistance> true, but they havent been much help when i ask in the past ;P
<tumbleweed> Resistance: it's pretty straight-forward. Setup a vcs-import (if necessary). Create a branch with the contents of debian. Write a 3 line recipe. Test locally with bzr dailydeb
<Resistance> tumbleweed:  the lack of examples or documentation is what gets mew
<broder> Resistance: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes
<Resistance> broder:  and that's been changed in the past 6 months?
<Resistance> actually this is a different page
<Resistance> :p
<Resistance> thanks
<broder> Resistance: i just googled for [launchpad recipe]
<Resistance> lol
 * Laney cries on nigelb's shoulder
 * Resistance hands Laney a box of tissues
<Majost> Could someone tell me if I need to include the autogenerated quilt patches when adding it to my source control?
<Majost> I tried cloning without them, and I get build errors.... so I am not sure if I am just passing dpkg-buildpackage the wrong arguments or if I need to include it
<JackyAlcine> Hey, guys, when I used dput, I put "ubuntu" instead of "ppa". I'm hoping that I didn't mess anything up. >_<
<Majost> s/adding it/adding my debianization/
<jtaylor> autogenerated quilt patch?
<jtaylor> that should be avoided
<nigelb> Laney: heh, what happened?
<Laney> JackyAlcine: do you have upload access?
<Laney> nigelb: sloooooooooooow
<Laney> there were several huge bzr checkouts
<nigelb> Laney: I wanted to contribute to LP over a year. I kept being stopped because the downloading would stop at some point and I'd be stuck
<Laney> and now bin/buildout is taking forever
<Laney> heh
<Laney> thank god for fast broadband
<nigelb> heh
<JackyAlcine> Laney: I'm not sure, I'm not an official Ubuntu package maintainer so I don't think that I've done too much harm.
<Laney> if you don't have access to upload to the archive then you can't have caused any problems
<ajmitch> there'd be trouble if any random person could screw up the archive :)
<JackyAlcine> But I wanted to warn in advance. It was only the .changes for my wintermute binary package.
 * JackyAlcine exhales a sigh of relief.
<Laney> i used to play a mud called wintermute
<JackyAlcine> Another question: can you only upload to a PPA via ftp? How about rsync or https?
<JackyAlcine> I got an error using rsync, and plain http failed.. :/
<Laney> ftp or sftp
<JackyAlcine> Thanks again, Laney.
<Laney> yay! launchpad.dev is alive!
<iamfuzz> Laney, launchpad.dev?  you setup your own LP install?
<Laney> sure did
<Resistance> Laney:  you're going to fix that bug you mentioned earlier right?
<Resistance> ;P
<Laney> baby steps
<iamfuzz> Laney, funny, I'm going to be doing that tomorrow :-)
<iamfuzz> Laney, how difficult was it?  Soyuz up too?
<lifeless> iamfuzz: https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/LXC + https://dev.launchpad.net/Soyuz/HowToUseSoyuzLocally
<lifeless> iamfuzz: its quite straight forward
<iamfuzz> lifeless, awesome
<iamfuzz> lifeless, LP been quite snappier since you came aboard there
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> we're making progress
<Laney> yeah, I haven't soyuzed yet
<Laney> it was pretty painless besides taking some time
<Laney> iamfuzz: I recommend you let it download overnight :-)
<iamfuzz> Laney, lol that big huh
<lifeless> its a little heavy :)
<Laney> just not that fun to stare at
<tumbleweed> Laney: just got to the bottom of another bug in lp-udd, that was making oneiric unimportable (I thought I was running into random timeouts / lp maintainance, but it was a python bug...)
<Laney> hah
<Laney> in python core?
<tumbleweed> already fixed in 2.7 http://bugs.python.org/issue10963
<Laney> isn't that the one we saw before?
<tumbleweed> we weren't using comminicate, we were just running into the problem of trying to write too much into the subprocess, when it was blocking because we weren't reading its output
<tumbleweed> the solution to that is to use communicate(), but then this bug...
<Laney> yes, that's why I stopped using communicate before
<tumbleweed> sbcl had many lines of changelog fixed in one upload
<tumbleweed> err, a big merge
<iamfuzz> lifeless, is ppa privatization available in the open source dump?
<iamfuzz> granted it'll be running internally anyway but still nice to have that granular level of control
<lifeless> iamfuzz: EPARSE
<lifeless> iamfuzz: (I'm not sure what you man)
<lifeless> *mean*
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-17
<broder> Laney (and other backporters): can you think of common stock responses you have to write up on backport requests? so far i've got "this package isn't in ubuntu", "this version isn't in ubuntu", and "backports aren't srus". any others?
<micahg> broder: uploaded to PPA foo, please install and run
<broder> ah yes, of course :)
<iamfuzz> lifeless, oh sorry, was referring back to installing launchpad locally
<iamfuzz> lifeless, does the ability to create private PPAs in the soyuz implementation exist there?
<blair> suggestions on which debian IRC channel to discuss a non-responsive debian package maintainer?  i've put together a patch for review.  looking to get them to update a package so it can be synced into precise
<lifeless> iamfuzz: we deploy the same code we develop
<lifeless> iamfuzz: no changes
<iamfuzz> very nice
<Resistance> since i got no answers from #launchpad...
<Resistance> <Resistance> do recipe builds and what not get a lower build / ppa-build priority?
<Resistance> <Resistance> the same source package uploaded by hand myself gets a sooner build time than the recipe build on lp
<Resistance> in case someone here knows
<micahg> Resistance: makes sense that automatic builds are after manual ones
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> broder: blah blah upgrade path
<l3on> Hey guys... do you suggest to add NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 in Makefile or in debian/rules ?
<l3on> the first choice means I have to create a patch... the second one should be a inline editing... what do you suggest ?
<l3on> (package I'm merging is cdebootstrap)
<l3on> -	dpkg-deb --build temp-$(PACKAGE) $(PACKAGE).deb
<l3on> +	NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 dpkg-deb --build temp-$(PACKAGE) $(PACKAGE).deb
<l3on> that's the change at Makefile
<geser> how is it currently done?
<l3on> changing Makefile
<l3on> that â helper/Makefile.{in,am}
<l3on> anyway... this package has '3.0 (native)' format...
<l3on> What's the best way to apply patches ?
<l3on> I mean.. if I switch format to 'quilt' I need .orig.tar.gz
<l3on> that's not provided by debian :/
<Laney> l3on: I suggest you read up on what a native package is :-)
<Laney> specifically that applying patches is not quite the same thing when the package is native
<l3on> Laney, I read.. but I'm not sure to understand how to apply patches :).. so, I switched to online changes ...
<and`> didrocks: any reason for keeping libbamf outside Debian?
<didrocks> and`: not outside that Debian didn't need it until now
<and`> didrocks: I maintain the gnome-pie package and while looking at its new upstream release today, I noticed it requiring libbamf :)
<didrocks> oh, interesting :)
<didrocks> so please, feel free to push it to debian
<and`> do you want to maintain it there as well?
<and`> if yes, I can sponsor the upload for you if you want.
<and`> didrocks: ^^
<didrocks> and`: I would be happy to do that, I can't though affirm that I can give the same QA level on debian
<and`> didrocks: I can help you if needed, i.e forwarding stuff etc. but keeping the package in sync would be a nice thing
<and`> didrocks: drop me a mail with a dgettable dsc and I'll push it either today or tomorrow, is that OK for you?
<didrocks> and`: can we plan that on Monday? I'm about to leave and will be off for a FLOSS event this week-end
<and`> didrocks: sure, but if there are no big deltas (apart changelog, maintainer stuff etc.), I can grab Ubuntu's package myself and upload it to Debian
<didrocks> and`: you should be able to grab the current version in ubuntu and be fine with it
<didrocks> and`: 0.2.104-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> so I guess 0.2.104-1 and I can sync back in ubuntu
<and`> didrocks: awesome, will add you as main maintainer.
<didrocks> thanks and` :)
<and`> yw!
<CarlFK> is there a guid for getting source, fixing bug, uploading to my PPA, testing, and submitting the patch on my ppa?
<CarlFK> I have submitted patches and put stuff on my PPA, wondering if there is a smooth way to do them both
<achiang> barry: ping, do you know how to steer setup.py to install python modules in /usr/share/appname/xxx instead of dist-packages dir?
<barry> achiang: is this for a package using dh_python2?
<achiang> barry: yeah
<barry> achiang: do a man dh_python2 and search for "private dirs"
<achiang> barry: the package wants to install some private modules, and per policy, they should go into  /usr/share/module
<barry> achiang: yep, dh_python2 supports that
<achiang> barry: hm, so i'm talking with my upstream and they want to make setup.py do it, so this works on fedora too
<barry> achiang: hmm, okay.  try this: `python setup.py install --help`.  there are a number of options available to control where stuff gets installed, so upstream will have to poke through those and figure out what works best for them
<achiang> barry: ok, will pass on, thanks
<barry> achiang: np. hth.
<iamfuzz> lifeless, got LP up and running locally \o/
<iamfuzz> lifeless, how does one go about adding userS?
<iamfuzz> lifeless, when I acess Login/Register, it only gives me the option to login
<StevenK> iamfuzz: utilites/make-lp-user <name>
<Laney> admin@canonical.com / test
<lifeless> there are some scripts in bin/ and utilities/
<Laney> is the default, but ^
<iamfuzz> many thanks
 * iamfuzz wonders why canonical doesn't offer installation and setup of this as a paid service like LDS
<StevenK> Because we'd prefer you use launchpad.net
<StevenK> But we understand that isn't possible all the time
<iamfuzz> we likely would, other than the bandwidth issues as a result of a hosted service
<Laney> I tried to get soyuz working but it bob the builder had some phantom mozilla build going on so it never got any build jobs
<Laney> how do I kill that?
<StevenK> Laney: Hack the DB
<iamfuzz> Laney, lmk how it works out - thats my next step too :-)
<Laney> hmm
 * StevenK tries to remember the runes
<Laney> no worries, I don't have it up atm :-)
<lifeless> actually thats not why we don't do an LDS like thing
<StevenK> Either way lib/lp/buildmaster/enums.py has the magical values
<StevenK> Laney: So you have a build in status 0 (NEEDSBUILD), you want to update the DB so that they are all 2 (FAILEDTOBUILD)
<Laney> i think it is currently building actually
<StevenK> Then 6 to 2
<Laney> but I get the idea
<Laney> thank you :>
<StevenK> Laney: #launchpad-dev on this network. We'd be delighted to answer any questions you have.
<StevenK> iamfuzz: ^
<Laney> am there, idling
<Laney> will surely have questions when i come to actually do something
<iamfuzz> Laney, you have any problems importing your gpg key?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> i think you have to make sure gpg knows about it
<Laney> on the host, for that script
<lifeless> the idea of on-site launchpads was mooted way back at the london exhibition hotel LP sprint
<lifeless> never seemed to get the resourcing needed, and doing it from the existing dev team would slow down features
<ajmitch> Laney: you're making progress now? :)
<Laney> too tired to boot the vm and check
<Laney> should have done it in an lxc
<lifeless> lxc++
<ajmitch> better than messing up your live system
<iamfuzz> where are the logs stored?  I can't get it to import my key for the life of me
<iamfuzz> lifeless, StevenK I apparently have something with my bazaar alias screwed up.  When I click on the logout button, it takes me to the "Lost something?" page with broken images
<iamfuzz> and when trying to import a key, I get this fun: 2011-11-17 15:33:21-0800 [HTTPChannel,4,127.0.0.88] 127.0.0.88 - - [17/Nov/2011:23:33:20 +0000] "GET /pks/lookup?search=0xD69FC46438D3A33619E5577D39BE3335F26A3797&op=get HTTP/1.1" 500 145 "-" "Python-urllib/2.6"
<iamfuzz> any ideas?
<StevenK> iamfuzz: Does the URL start with bazaar.launchpad.dev?
<iamfuzz> StevenK, yes
<iamfuzz> StevenK, https://bazaar.launchpad.dev/+logout?next_to=https%3A%2F%2Ftestopenid.dev%2F%2Blogout
<StevenK> iamfuzz: It's LP attempting to log you out of loggerhead too, you'll hit it if you use make run, rather than make run_codehosting
<StevenK> iamfuzz: It's ignorable
<iamfuzz> StevenK, ah, thought it might be related to my key import issue as well
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-18
<iamfuzz> StevenK, I get the same thing when running make run_codehosting as well as when it tries to import my key at: https://bazaar.launchpad.dev/pks/lookup?search=0xD69FC46438D3A33619E5577D39BE3335F26A3797&op=get
<StevenK> iamfuzz: -> #launchpad-dev
<StevenK> So that more than just me can help you out.
<iamfuzz> touche
<nigelb> iamfuzz: Ha, you're trying out LP as well? :)
<iamfuzz> nigelb, indeed :-)
<iamfuzz> looking good so far but about to tackle the soyuz beast
<nigelb> Oh dear.
<StevenK> It will tackle you back.
<StevenK> And then eat you.
<nigelb> Exactly.
<iamfuzz> :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<l3on> dholbach: hey :)
<l3on> I don't know what's going on... It seems that patch gets corrupted during upload if I use mail to reply to bug report :/
<dholbach> l3on, I have to step out for a bit - maybe you can ask for help in here and I'll reply once I get back or maybe somebody else can help out
<dholbach> l3on, did you get any help?
<dholbach> nevermind, I'll deal with it manually
<ricotz> debfx, hi, do you think virtualbox 4.1.6 is syncable yet? first linux 3.2.0 upload is going to land soon
<debfx> ricotz: yes. is 4.1.4 incompatible with the 3.2 kernel?
<ricotz> debfx, yes it is
<ricotz> rev 39224 fixed it
<ricotz> https://www.virtualbox.org/changeset/39224
<debfx> ah right, afaik that's not included in 4.1.6 though
<ricotz> oh, i was hoping so
<ricotz> debfx, would be nice to have 4.1.6 uploaded including this patch then
<broder> ScottK: some new clamav rebackports just popped up on <http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~broder/rebackporter/rebackports.json>. will you be taking care of getting those backports?
<ScottK> broder: Sure.
<jasper> Can I ask somebody about btrfs-tools packaging here?
<tumbleweed> jasper: asking if you can ask a question isn't very productive. Please ago ahead
<jasper> Thank you for you're time. I'm very interested in devoting time in packaging the newer btrfs-tools for ubuntu. I think the btrfs-tools package in the repository is a little bit old. Currently I use my own btrfs-tools which i've build myself. I was wondering if there's a maintainer which would be interested in the packages.
<tumbleweed> jasper: we inherit our btrfs-tools package from debian, although it picked up a few modifications on the way, which is why it's now a little behind debian
<tumbleweed> debian seems to have a more recent snapshot packaged: http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/btrfs-tools.html
<tumbleweed> although, not much more recent...
<jasper> Okay, thank you for you're information. I will take a look at the debian packages, and otherwise I'll post my packages in a ppa or something for everybody to find if they like it.
<tumbleweed> really, the best person to talk to, about packaging a newer snapshot, is the debian maintainer of btrfs-tools
<jasper> Okay, I will try to contact him. Again thanks for you're help.
<tumbleweed> np
<broder> tumbleweed: i'll file a bug, but it looks like requestbackport doesn't currently look at non-release pockets
<tumbleweed> broder: ah, yes, it should
<broder> (though i need to check - i'm not entirely sure backport-helper handles non-release backports correctly)
<ScottK> broder: Bug filed.  Thanks.
<broder> thank you :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-19
<tumbleweed> Laney: Think I've got a coherent complete upload history set. Ready to take it?
<tumbleweed> meh, summer is here. It's still and hot :/
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: getting well baked?
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: staying mostly inside for the moment :)
<tumbleweed> the curse of being bound to a computer...
<highvoltage> I have to be careful, I get subnurnt really easy. (even in london in the winter once)
<tumbleweed> heh
<broder> ScottK, tumbleweed, micahg, Laney: i'm working on revamping the backports docs to try and do a better job of delineating "end-user" and "developer" targeted docs. what i have so far is at http://bit.ly/rNEOWc
<broder> i'd like to split the docs between help.u.c (end-user) and wiki.u.c (dev)
<broder> interested in your thoughts. also interested in how to avoid wall-of-text syndrome for the stuff i have drafted
<ScottK> Avoiding wall of text isn't something I'm very good at.
<ScottK> broder: Scanned it and I think it's good.  My only comment is to make clear that "developer" is anyone that wants to build/test a backport.
<broder> i guess i'm hoping it will balance well as a reference against requestbackport's less verbose output
<broder> ah, good catch
<ScottK> It might even be better to call it tester instead of developer.  not sure.
<broder> i don't think i actually use the word developer in the docs, just my title, which was more placeholder
<ScottK> OK.
<broder> but i should probably make it clear in the text
<ScottK> There are really five states: Requester, Builder, Tester, Approver, User
<ScottK> Approver is the only one that requires an ubuntu-dev type person.
<ScottK> Builder is the only one that may need some technical/packaging knowledge.
 * broder nods
<ScottK> I think having information for requesting/building/testing as distinct things would be good as people can sometimes do one of those things and not the others.
<ScottK> Going from Requesting -> Building/Testing would be a good bridge from h.u.c to w.u.c.
<broder> i'm not sure we should encourage that, because you risk setting the expectation that requested backports will eventually get handled without any additional input from the requester, and that just doesn't happen in practice
<ScottK> I think we should say that.
<ScottK> You can file a request, but ...
<broder> fiar
<ScottK> There was a time when there were people who would test backports they didn't request.
<ScottK> It might happen again if we get things ramped up a bit.
<broder> yeah, and i still want to try to automate some of the testing, which will probably also help
<broder> ok. i'll play with it some and see if i can tease those roles apart more
<ScottK> Great
<virusuy> hi everyone
<virusuy> i'm trying to package a simple bash script
<virusuy> and i need to modify $PATH
<virusuy> where should i declare that in the package ?
<tumbleweed> virusuy: that sounds wrong. Why do you need to modify $PATH?
<CarlFK> once a .deb is on a stable repo (or maybe beta too) it won't be updated: a newer version may come out, but it will have a new file name.  right ?
<tumbleweed> CarlFK: yes, but why are you asking?
<virusuy> tumbleweed: but if i don't modify $PATH, how can i call the script without using the full path ?
<CarlFK> trying to figure out if I should bother telling squid to expire debs
<tumbleweed> virusuy: what are you trying to do?
<CarlFK> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/squid-deb-proxy/oneiric/view/head:/squid-deb-proxy.conf#L52  refresh_pattern deb$   129600 100% 129600
<CarlFK> 129600 min is 90 days.
<CarlFK> made me wonder where 90 days came from
<virusuy> tumbleweed: i have a bash script
<tumbleweed> virusuy: so, put it in /usr/bin, so it'll be on people's paths
<virusuy> tumbleweed: ok then
<l3on> tumbleweed, around ? :)
<l3on> I've solved this ftbfs:
<l3on> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clearsilver/0.10.5-1.2/+build/2930410
<l3on> What's next step?... file a bug?
<tumbleweed> l3on: yup, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<l3on> tumbleweed, well.. which info I have to report?
<l3on> I mean.. I patched a source file
<jtaylor> l3on: idealy file a bug vs upstream and debian
<jtaylor> format-security issues are probably no reason to diverge from debian at this point
<l3on> patch is:
<l3on> -  cgi_error (cgi, s);
<l3on> +  cgi_error (cgi, "%s", s);
<l3on> directly to upstream ?
<jtaylor> if upstream is affected yes
<jtaylor> here an example bug I filed: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=646350
<ubottu> Debian bug 646350 in src:mupdf "mupdf: FTBFS with -Werror=format-security" [Normal,Open]
<jtaylor> In your case you would add the aptch too
<l3on> ok jtaylor I'll do it :)
<l3on> and in Ubuntu jtaylor I have to file a "merge bug" ?
<jtaylor> ubuntu will get the fix automatically when debian fixes it
<jtaylor> is there any info if this flag will stay enabled for precise?
<l3on> I don't know how I can check it
<l3on> I read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Format_string_vulnerabilities
<l3on> and applied patch
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I would assume it won't. Last I heard, we were waiting for the first rebuild to see how bad the fallout was
<tumbleweed> but the rebuild won't happen until feature freeze
<jtaylor> ok thx
<jtaylor> l3on: in this case we will want to wait a bit before fixing the package in ubuntu
<l3on> Ok, I'm going to file only bug debian.
<jtaylor> carrying difference to debian is a maintenance overhead which might not be necessary in this case yet
<l3on> Ok, I got it :)
<jtaylor> debian does not enable that flag for the whole archive
<jtaylor> but thanks for looking at it, your help will be much appreciated when ubuntu decides to keep the flag
<l3on> ok bug filed in debian e upstream
<l3on> debian 649322
<ubottu> Debian bug 649322 in clearsilver "" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/649322
<tumbleweed> l3on: whoops, that doesn't have a subject
<l3on> damn ...
<jtaylor> no problam you can fix that easily
<jtaylor> also you should add tags
<jtaylor> it has a patch so the patch tag should be added, also these issues are tracked in so called usertags, "hardening-format-security hardening" for user debian-qa@lists.debian.org
<l3on> I'm reading how to do it
<jtaylor> l3on: mail this to http://paste.ubuntu.com/743693/ control@bugs.debian.org
<tumbleweed> if you have working mail on your machine, there's a handy tool called bts in devscripts, for things like that
<l3on> thank you jtaylor .. I was still reading retitle command :P
<l3on> ah wow .. nice, I'm looking at manpage
<jtaylor> you should also keep how to reproduce it in debian in the bug
<jtaylor> in this case it is by enable the hardened build
<l3on> The export+include ? :)
<l3on> Ah ok, I'm making note about this ...
<jtaylor> yes just helps to quickly test it
<jtaylor> you quited the d-d-a mail it is in there, but adding cliffnotes is always nice
<l3on> ok :)
<jtaylor> don't forget to subscribe to the bug
<jtaylor> the bts will not do that for you even when you file it
<l3on> and in Ubuntu how people will know that there is a pending patch in Debian ?
<jtaylor> during rebuilds bugs are filed in ubuntu
<jtaylor> which you link and tag with the debian bugs
<jtaylor> also when fixing issues you always look in debian if there is a fix already
<l3on> Ok,thanks for this :)
<l3on> Mmm.. I sent mail at control .. but nothing changes...
<jtaylor> it takes a while
<l3on> oki :)
<jtaylor> the bts is not very fast, some parts are only updated every 15 minutes
<l3on> this problem will be reported in the same way?
<l3on> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83733832/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.libccscript3_1.1.7-1.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> yes looks like the same issue
<jtaylor> before you file issues, check if it was already filed
<jtaylor> I did a few of these a while back
<jtaylor> also you should always check if debian is really affected
<l3on> ok, I checked and it filed under debian 643417
<ubottu> Debian bug 643417 in src:libccscript3 "libccscript3: FTBFS: compiler.cpp:1147:38: error: format not a string literal and no format arguments [-Werror=format-security]" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/643417
<l3on> another question :)
<l3on> Why some builds seem to fail whet apply patch ?
<l3on> and patch comes from debian
<l3on> this for example:
<l3on> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85415333/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.magics%2B%2B_2.12.9-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> that is a special case
<jtaylor> the buildtool needs patching so it correctly handles the as-needed flag
<jtaylor> because libtool sucks ;)
<l3on> lol
<jtaylor> so this package had a patch included in the it
<jtaylor> but the underlying libtool was updated so the patch does not apply anymore
<jtaylor> dh-autoreconf has gained the ability to do the patching now
<jtaylor> which is more robust as it only needs one package to be up to date isntead of many
<jtaylor> dh-autoreconf --as-needed
<l3on> well.. I have to go.. thanks for all :)
<l3on> bye
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-20
<broder> ScottK: i've shuffled my draft around to try and tease things apart some more
<broder> i still think i'd rather the docs on help.u.c be primarily focused on installing backports, but it would obviously have a link to the wiki page
<cjwatson> clearsilver, in scrollback: please don't touch that
<broder> but i may find that things flow differently once i sketch out a new version of the help.u.c docs
<cjwatson> I've contacted the security team about that one
<cjwatson> sigh, public bug report, I suppose it's too late
 * micahg hugs cjwatson for trying
<bullgard4> Archlinux hat ein Paket Â»urxvt-url-selectÂ«. Warum bietet Ubuntu 11.10 das nicht an?
<bullgard4> Archlinux provides a package Â»urxvt-url-selectÂ«. Why does Ubuntu 11.10 not provide this package?
<Zhenech> because ubuntu ain't arch?
<bullgard4> Is this all you can contribute to the problem stated?
<Ampelbein> bullgard4: More complete answer: There hasn't been a volunteer who packaged urxvt-url-select and got it through the archive approval process in ubuntu or debian.
<alco75> hi motu ppl, thanks for all the hard work :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-12
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> thanks mitya57
<mitya57> dholbach: I've also just committed a fix to pygments (in dmpt svn) that fixes the highlighting for makefiles
<mitya57> (and added DEP-8 tests) :)
<dholbach> wow, you're unstoppable
<mitya57> :)
<obounaim> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/apache2
<obounaim> Most recent Ubuntu version: 2.2.22-6ubuntu3
<obounaim> Packaging branch version: 2.2.22-6ubuntu2
<obounaim> Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE
<obounaim> apache is out of date in lp:ubuntu/apache2
<obounaim> how can fix this?
<geser> "apt-get source apache2" (if you have the source repositories)
<obounaim> I want to merge the new version from Debian using bzr?
<geser> the apache2 import seems to have failed getting the version number but I don't have an idea why
<obounaim> What is armhf?
<tumbleweed> our ARM port
<jtaylor> arm with a floating point unit
<jtaylor> hf = hard float
<obounaim> tumbleweed, jtaylor, thanks
<Quintasan> bdrung: ping
<bdrung> Quintasan: pong
<Quintasan> bdrung: Would you like me to export your signed key somewhere?
<Quintasan> apart from sending it to you
<bdrung> Quintasan: i recommend to use caff to send me the signed keys
<Quintasan> Ahh, the magics of setting up mtp again
<bdrung> Quintasan: exactly
<jtaylor> ssmtp is nice and simple
<bdrung> Quintasan: sending the signed key is a verification that i have access to these email addresses
<bdrung> jtaylor: i fought against postfix. this time i won.
 * ScottK doesn't understand what's hard about that.
<jtaylor> I tried postfix after my first signing, succeeded after a long time
<jtaylor> for the second I forgot how to do it ...
<jtaylor> the third I discovered ssmtp :)
<bdrung> ScottK: all the required config options to use a encrypted connection to a smart host
<jtaylor> the googleable documentation is also inconsistend (for postfix at the time I used it)
<ScottK> That's a common enough configuration that perhaps we ought to add it to debconf.
<ScottK> patches welcome ...
<Quintasan> bdrung: Done
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: Please check your email
<bdrung> Quintasan: thanks
<Quintasan> ScottK: I have signed and sent your key to you as well
<ScottK> Quintasan: I did get it.  I haven't had a chance to deal with it or signing yours.  I will though.
<Quintasan> ScottK: No worries, just getting sticky notes out of my desk since it's full of them :D
<ScottK> :-)
<Quintasan> ...
<Quintasan> bdrung, ScottK, tumbleweed: This is not fun -> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=Michal+Zajac&op=vindex
<Quintasan> The ID with my misspellt nickname is there for some reason
<Quintasan> I'm sure I edited it out before sending it anywhere
<bdrung> hm, seems that you have the misspelt and the correct one there
<Quintasan> Yes, I wonder how did that happen
<bdrung> ScottK: maybe i should by https://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#JustShy for the next UDS ;)
<ScottK> ;-)
<Quintasan> I'm so getting the [citation needed] stickers
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-13
<dholbach> good morning
<Rcart> good morning daniel o/
<dholbach> hi Rcart
<Rcart> dholbach: btw, are there any plans for the Motu shchool in this new dev cycle?
<dholbach> Rcart, what I know we'll have is: regular hangouts-on-air, an Ubuntu Developer Week and updated videos :)
<dholbach> about MOTU School I don't know
<dholbach> it'd be great if somebody organised some sessions, but I can't guarantee I'm going to be this somebody this cycle :/
<Rcart> yeah, that'd be nice
<Rcart> seems like MOTU School must wait to hear from  Bhavani's plans :)
<dholbach> :)
<Rcart> see you around then o/
<dholbach> take care :)
<Rcart> thank you ;)
<ricotz> debfx, hi, could you take a look at this and maybe sponsor it? there are debian-folder diffs too -- http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/virtualbox/
<highvoltage> xnox: lol. http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Raring-Ringtail/26357384_T6rzD6#!i=2197362820&k=7RrKp49&lb=1&s=A
 * xnox can totally see that pic comming back again and again to haunt me down
<highvoltage> there are a bunch of memeworthy pics in that collection
<xnox> highvoltage: it was meant to be sad viking picture. not sure how well it turned out.
<ricotz> debfx, i am back, in case you already seen the vbox proposal
<debfx> ricotz: where is 38-fix-dkms-ftbfs-linux-370.patch from?
<ricotz> debfx, i looked for a fix in 4.2.4 source and this "one-liner" is enough
<ricotz> so from me
<ricotz> i am running it and works normal on 3.7.0
<ricotz> debfx, builds are available here https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/unstable/+packages
<ricotz> debfx, btw, did you looked at 4.2.4 despite the dfsg concerns?
<ricotz> it seems "only" the fuse driver needs greater work
<ricotz> debfx, anyway i hope you are willing to sponsor 4.1.22
<debfx> ricotz: no, I haven't looked at 4.2
<debfx> I'll sponsor 4.1.22 soon
<ricotz> debfx, thanks
<ricotz> debfx, you said 4.2.x is not dfsg conformable anymore, so i thought you have taken a look
<debfx> ricotz: upstream informed me of the change that makes it non-free before they released 4.2
<debfx> but I haven't built or used 4.2
<ricotz> debfx, alright, i see
<debfx> ricotz: I've uploaded virtualbox, thanks for preparing and testing the update
<ricotz> debfx, thank you
<chilicuil> debian/patches/* can modify files in /debian/* ?, I created a patch who modify /debian/rules, but then I'm getting this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1356603/ , the patch is very simple: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1356606/
<jtaylor> it can, but why would you want to do that?
<jtaylor> the error message implies it just needs refreshing
<chilicuil> jtaylor: I've refresh it, but still now working
<chilicuil> jtaylor: not sure, I'm following the developer.ubuntu.com/packaging guide, it say I should create a patch
<jtaylor> chilicuil: only for the upstream files
<jtaylor> files in debian/ are usually changed directly
<chilicuil> jtaylor: ok, then I'll download the branch again, and will modify them directly =)
<chilicuil> someone should point out that on the guide, I'll look it in lp to see if I can suggest it
<cjwatson> chilicuil: I would go further than jtaylor; modifying files under debian/ with debian/patches/* is Bad and Wrong and I would always reject or rewrite any proposed change that did that
<cjwatson> Modifying debian/rules in particular would only even work at all under certain circumstances, and is too confusing an approach to be allowed to live
<chilicuil> cjwatson: thanks for your further explanation, I'll never modify debian/ files with patches again, I've done it directly and it generated the .dsc just fine, now testing with pbuilder, btw, what happens if a change propones the contrary of another?, for example the bug I'm trying to fix #1023329 was generated when someone in Debian fixed #633934, full changelog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1356647/ , I'm enabling cgribex
<jtaylor> chilicuil: so its either the one or the other? can't both be enabled?
<chilicuil> jtaylor: yep, it's with or without =S, however it's a little bit strange, because the original change was in debian, ubuntu pull it and according to the reporter, the debian version works as expected while the ubuntu not, I'll upload the change to a ppa, and will ask him to test it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-14
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> good morning!
<dholbach> hi mitya57
<directhex> so, what's the easy way to turn a .xpi into a package?
<cjwatson> directhex: mozilla-devscripts has some tools for dealing with .xpi files
<cjwatson> if that helps
<directhex> cjwatson, just found their wiki page
<directhex> aha, had to beat xpi-pack with a stick
<obounaim> Are quilt patches reapplied after a merge?
<paco1> hello masters!
<paco1> i'm creating a package for myself, and i have a question: how to create user during packaging?
<paco1> thanks!
<jtaylor> you do that in postinst scripts
<jtaylor> not sure if its a good example, but apt-cacher-ng adds a user
<paco1> jtaylor: ok, thanks for the exemple. I'm going to the source package
<xnox> tumbleweed: thank you very much! you rock =))))
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-15
<psusi> what was the bzr version of git clean?
<cjwatson> bzr clean-tree
<psusi> thanks
<xnox> psusi: bzr alias clean="clean-tree"
<xnox> helps a lot if you work with both a lot.
<psusi> hehe, good one
<psusi> isn't a change to Makefile.am supposed to be detected by configure or make and trigger Makefile.in to be updated?
<tumbleweed> xnox: oh, what did I do?
<dholbach> good morning
<bkerensa> dholbach: can I jump from say 1.0.6 of a upstream release to 1.3.1? when updating a package?
<bkerensa> Or do I need to do multiple pushes for each release?
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<iulian> bkerensa: Of course you can.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> bkerensa, yes, what iulian said
<bkerensa> iulian: good stuff :) thanks for the info
<geser> bkerensa: you mean when importing upstream into bzr? or building a source package for each release?
<bkerensa> geser: importing upstream into bzr
<geser> bkerensa: you can do one big push or each release, like you prefer. Having each release in its own commit, might help if you need to find out which release introduced a change later. But if upstream has its own vcs, I wouldn't bother committing each release and just do a big push and use the upstream vcs if I need to find when a certain change was done.
<bkerensa> kk
<xnox> tumbleweed: you started nothing ;-)
 * xnox #input TingTings
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> listening to the ting tings is a good idea
<tumbleweed> xnox: glad you appreciate my lack of action
 * tumbleweed makes a note to do less
<xnox> tumbleweed: well it's catching fire... but we will see how far this will get =)
 * ScottK wishes he'd read this channel before fixing python3-defaults.
<tumbleweed> ...and we fogot about another MOTU meeting
<ScottK> That's such a negative view.
<ScottK> tumbleweed: "We've maintained a consistent approach to the MOTU meeting".
<ScottK> Doesn't that sound better?
 * mitya57 laughs
<tumbleweed> ScottK: :)
<JoeVLcek> I have a cloud-init question.
<JoeVLcek> Can someone help me with a cloud-init issue regarding the default user?
<micahg> JoeVLcek: #ubuntu-cloud?
<JoeVLcek> cloud.cfg or user now has: users: -default
<JoeVLcek> micahg: does that exist now?
<JoeVLcek> micahg: thanks!
 * micahg thought it's existed for a while
<JoeVLcek> micahg: Thanks mate!
<micahg> oh, hrm, invite only
<micahg> maybe try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server then
<JoeVLcek> micahg: My mistake. I just opened the wrong tab on my irc client!
<JoeVLcek> I should have had a ;) after: (02:07:19 PM) JoeVLcek: micahg: does that exist now?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-16
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<obounaim> Hello
<obounaim> what are the disadvantages of using udd?
<geser> there aren't really any (if the packaging branch is up-to-date), it's more a preference if one uses it or not
<obounaim> I heard that udd have some problems with quilt patchs is that right?
<tumbleweed> geser: well, sure there are. Checkout time vs a local mirror can be quite high (but once you have a local checkout, it's cheaper next time...)
<tumbleweed> obounaim: yes, tehre are some issues with quilt patches. I thought that had improved in the last year or so, but can't remember the details
<tumbleweed> play with it yourself, and see how it works for you
<obounaim> How changes made in package branch (UDD) find its way to the Ubuntu archive.
<Laney> someone uploads them as normal
<Laney> by building a source package and uploading it to the correct location
<obounaim> I mean when somebody uses (UDD) to make changes in a package. How the source package will be made available in the Ubuntu archive.
<obounaim> source and binary packages
<maxb> manual uploading same as any other upload
<Laney> that's what I answered
<maxb> yes. obounaim just didn't seem to understand :-)
<Laney> heh
<obounaim> No, I mean how changes made in a package branch using the UDD will be available to everybody out there, is the UDD importer responsible for this?
<obounaim> When we make changes in a package branch we don't upload a source package.
<Laney> a developer has to take the branch and turn it into a source package and upload it
<obounaim> So it is not done automatically?
<maxb> correct
<Laney> you always want some deliberate action to trigger a build - it's not true that any arbitrary revision of a branch should be given out to users
<Laney> currently that's uploading a source package, but in the future it could be pushing a signed tag or issuing a special Launchpad command
<Laney> still will be an explicit request though
<jtaylor> is this an armhf libc issue? https://launchpadlibrarian.net/123081185/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-armhf.gluegen2_2.0-rc11-1~exp1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<jtaylor> scroll right down
<jtaylor>  /usr/include/stdc-predef.h:30:26: fatal error: bits/predefs.h: No such file or directory
<obounaim> Laney, maxb. Thank you very much
<Laney> jtaylor: still exists according to Contents-armhf.gz
<jtaylor> strange
<jtaylor> micahg: anything more you want tested for bug 1074765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074765 in Quantal Backports "Please backport ipython 0.13.1-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074765
<micahg> jtaylor: anything that's a Reverse-Depends
<jtaylor> there are only reverse recommends and suggests
<micahg> python-surfer, python-polybori?
<jtaylor> those should not be depends
<jtaylor> but I'll check them
<micahg> jtaylor: if there's a bug in the script, let's get it fixed
<jtaylor> no its a bug in the packages
<jtaylor> the rdeps are all just embedded shells
<jtaylor> all but accerciser just fall back to regular python if ipython is not there
<jtaylor> fyi 0.13 is backported to precise since it existed in a ppa (~60 users)
<jtaylor> micahg: checked both, surfer is quantal only (and broken) the backport is a nop there
<jtaylor> polybori is already broken in precise and the functionality is completely optional
<micahg> yade, nipype, python-pytango, connectomeviewer, statsmodels, rabbitvcs-core, those also appears as Depends, can you please comment in the bug as to the state of all of them
<jtaylor> build depends
<jtaylor> do those have to work too?=
<jtaylor> because yade build is broken by it
<jtaylor> but nobody wants to build that anyway it needs like 8gb of ram ._.
<micahg> they're supposed to all work, if the version in precise is already broken, then a backport is fine
<jtaylor> got to file some bugs, far to strict dependencies on ipython everywhere
<jtaylor> rabbitvcs does not even expose the option unless you hack the code but its a depend ...
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-17
<bobweaver> Hello there I was wondering about putting white space in d/control I will make pastebin of it , http://paste.ubuntu.com/1366217/ I want to use the spacing that is in that paste but . is not working example
<bobweaver>  this
<bobweaver> .
<bobweaver> that
<bobweaver> forgot space on that
<bobweaver> does the . have to also have one white space in start also    like
<bobweaver> .
<bobweaver>  .
<jtaylor> the package description is no manpage
<bobweaver> lol
<bobweaver> this is just a thing that I am fling though
<bobweaver> see last week ubuntu fr came to #ubuntu-tv and I spent week making Ubuntu tv MOCKUP for them so I want to package up real fast so That I can give to other locos for there party as some have asked allready
<bobweaver> so no need to spend alot of time on this it just has to work and maybe I should add checks to make sure that the folders are there but I *must* get back to c++/nux/compiz porting of unity 2d mockup code to unity 3d but I do not want to spend all that time configing system for locos team so I will hand off ppa sor that
<bobweaver> ppa for that *
<bobweaver> risk <= reward deal here
<roaksoax> bobweaver: i think you want something like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1366234/
<bobweaver> I think that ppa says warning v.well  https://launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/+archive/ubuntutv
<bobweaver> thanks roaksoax
<bobweaver> I could not remember the .  part
<roaksoax> bobweaver: and for several sentences in one paragraph, is probably more appropriate to leave 2 white spaces between them, such as 'First sentence.  Second sentence' instead of 'First sentence. Second Sentence'
<bobweaver> what is allowed charecters in line 80 ?
<bobweaver> characters *
<roaksoax> bobweaver: yes I believe so. Otherwise lintian should complain
<bobweaver> thanks again  jtaylor  you are 100% correct though I should put that in debconf ?  like when installing the application at least or package could use tons of work but that being said I just do not have the time
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-18
<Zhenech> could someone please mark this as affecting quantal? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monkeystudio/+bug/1074845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1074845 in monkeystudio (Ubuntu) "monkeystudio crashes while displaying menu tooltips" [Undecided,New]
<jtaylor> done
<Zhenech> jtaylor, thanks
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: the probably better alternative would be to remove the check completely
<jtaylor> but that would require rebuilding what already has picked up .9
<jtaylor> (which is probably almost nothing)
<tumbleweed> how sure are you that patch versions are compatible?
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> but if they aren'T the soversion should bump
<tumbleweed> also, why doesn't that have strict version dependencies to match
<jtaylor> there is no reason to do this compiletime <-> runtime check
<jtaylor> looks like a case of bad upstream
<tumbleweed> do minor releases tend to come with sovesrion bumps?
<jtaylor> minor yes, patch don'T no
<jtaylor> probably not
<jtaylor> debian maintainer said no, but he didn't even know about this issue
<tumbleweed> sounds reasonable, do it
<jtaylor> such things should be handled by soversion not runtime checks
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> btw, re the i386 FTBFS, I never reporduced it on sid, and gave up before diving in too deeply
<jtaylor> my i386 chroot just finished I'll try 0.9.1
<jtaylor> still affected :(
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> jtaylor: hi... can I ask a thing?
<jtaylor> yes?
<alo21> jtaylor: I found at merges.ubuntu.com a package called xorp, and I noticed that you are the last uploader
<alo21> and I am wondering If I can work on it
<jtaylor> sure go ahead
<alo21> jtaylor: thanks... I think xorp can be dropped (synced), but because I am a beginner and I am not very insecure, I would like to know If it is right.
<jtaylor> yes its pretty likely that it can be synced
<jtaylor> test build the debian package
<jtaylor> if it works we can give a sync a go
<alo21> jtaylor: ok. Thanks again
<alo21> jtaylor: I am looking for the debian folder (http://packages.debian.org/source/testing/xorp), but I cannot find it. Can use the Ubuntu one?
<jtaylor> use pull-debian-source to get the source
<jtaylor> or dget http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/x/xorp/xorp_1.8.5-1.1.dsc
<alo21> jtaylor: If I use pull-debian-source, it will retrieve the testing or unstable source?
<jtaylor> by default unstable
<jtaylor> but you can pull testing or experimental too
<jtaylor> see the manpage
<alo21> jtaylor: I occured this error http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1368872/
<jtaylor> are you building in pbuilder?
<alo21> I run debuild -S
<jtaylor> that should not be needed when you pull the unmodified source
<jtaylor> you can pass that directly to pbuilder
<alo21> jtaylor: it meens that every time I edit a part of a packeg for ubuntu, i have to edit debian/rules too. right?
<jtaylor> not always
<jtaylor> rules takes care of building the package, you only have to touch that if there is something wrong with the build
<alo21> and could you tell why I occure that error?
<jtaylor> because you don't have all build dependencies installed
<jtaylor> in this case scons is missing
<jtaylor> you could install them with mk-build-deps -ir
<jtaylor> but for this its better to just dump it in pbuilder
<jtaylor> pbuilder-dist raring amd64 build <dsc-file>
<alo21> jtaylor: I asked it, in this way I start to recognize some errors and know how to resolve the,
<alo21> them*
<alo21> jtaylor: the building is ended. Have try to install it too?
<alo21> have i*
<jtaylor> you should test the upgrade/install too yes
<jtaylor> there is a pbuilder hook that does that for you
<jtaylor> unfortunately it often screws something up
<alo21> jtaylor: ok, it works. Now I am going to make a sync request
<alo21> jtaylor: here is the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorp/+bug/1080485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1080485 in xorp (Ubuntu) "Sync xorp 1.8.5-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<jtaylor> thx, sponsored
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-11
<lfaraone> Does the whole SRU process have to be followed for no-change rebuilds?
<jtaylor> lfaraone: your looking at wxmaxima?
<lfaraone> jtaylor: yes.
<jtaylor> the procedure is the same
<RAOF> But you get the advantage of it being a simple change to review. :)
<jtaylor> lfaraone: I added a second affected package
<jtaylor> there might be more
<lfaraone> jtaylor: Sure. I'm tempted to reply to the bugcontrol requestor "this isn't really the place to email, plus, see the SRU proceedure"
<jtaylor> here is what I tested http://paste.ubuntu.com/6396214/
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: read the little essay at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates ...
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: "but a rebuild is a zero-line change!"
<tumbleweed> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-12
<mfisch> TheMuso`: does anyone still use speakup? i'm looking at merging it
<xnox> i ponder why ben thinks mlt is green on arm64 only, when it was rebuild across the board on time. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/libav.html
<lfaraone> ScottK: can you (or another queue admin) reject my upload of openafs 1.6.5.1-1ubuntu0.12.04.1 to precise? That version number is newer than the one in trusty.
<dholbach> good morning
<ScottK> lfaraone: Done.
<mfisch> Who maintaines the MOTU mailing list?
<mfisch> I'm curious why I'm not a member of said list (my post bounced)
<mfisch> soren: ping
<mitya57> mfisch: check the list info :)
<mitya57> wow, dholbach is back
<mitya57> Willkommen zurÃ¼ck!
<dholbach> hey mitya57 :)
<mitya57> dholbach: I wanted to ask you about list of UPG languages on developer.u.c, but apparently it's working again
<mitya57> it showed only Spanish for some period of time
<dholbach> mfisch, you're signed up with @ubuntu.com, not @canonical.com
<dholbach> mfisch, approved your post
<dholbach> mitya57, I fixed it this morning - I guess it was some kind of wordpress hiccup when the site was moved over from the staging site
<mitya57> dholbach: thanks!
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> now if we could only somebody who knows French to review all the French translated strings we could publish a new guide
<dholbach> there's a lot of Italian and Traditional Chinese translated and unreviewed strings too: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
<mitya57> Yup
<mfisch> dholbach: thanks, my fault!
<dholbach> no worries
<mfisch> and I just did it again too. I need to remember that
<mfisch> I also need to get a cup of coffee
<Unit193> xnox: Heya, thanks for the merge.
<xnox> np
<TheMuso`> mfisch: Actually, it can be synced, as speakup is part of the kernel now, the speakup package ust contains scripts/utils to work with it.
<mfisch> TheMuso`: thanks, I'll look at doing it tomorrow unless you can do it. I'd like to ensure it builds etc
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-13
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-14
<soren> mfisch: o/
<mfisch> soren: I think I got my ML question answered thx
<mfisch> Does the standard SRU process apply to universe?
<RAOF> Yes, but we tend to be a bit more lenient.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-15
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> what is/was the common fix for build upload failures with "has 2 file(s) with a time stamp too far in the past [Sun Dec 30 23:00:00 1979]"?
<tumbleweed> can't say I've seen *that* one before
<tumbleweed> how?
<geser> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/154611836/upload_5138324_log.txt
<tumbleweed> geser: the timestamps seem sane in VCS https://code.google.com/p/guava-libraries/source/browse/
<tumbleweed> it's their tarball generator that's to blame
<geser> but fixing that generator doesn't look an option for us?
<cjwatson> touch the file in debian/rules
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-16
<lfaraone> with CUT, how usable is the development release this early in the cycle?
<Noskcaj> lfaraone, I've been on 14.04 since it became an option, it's pretty good, but don't enable -proposed
<Noskcaj> Is anyone willing to give me a testimonial at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Noskcaj/MOTU ?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-17
<hakermania> Hey there :) I have a PPA for a Qt library and I would like it into the official repos. What are my next steps?
<Noskcaj> hakermania, Getting it into debian usually
<Noskcaj> Make sure that the package is lintian clean and has a free copyright, then upload to debian mentors
<hakermania> Noskcaj, well, this library *has* to be on ubuntu 14.04's repos, because it will be used by Wallch, which I plan it to be included in the repos for 14.04. Does the process that you describe ensures me that the library will be available at Ubuntu 14.04?
<Noskcaj> provided someone uploads them to debian by roughly february, they will be in 14.04
<hakermania> Noskcaj, thanks a lot :D
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-10
<dholbach> good morning
<ricotz> Laney, ah i see, there is one, thx
<ricotz> thanks to pitti
<Laney> should autosync
<Laney> (cssutils for context)
<ricotz> testbuilding seems to be underestimated ;)
<Laney> It's not uninstallable in a way that proposed-migration should have figured out (postinst failure)
<ricotz> i meant the uploader of 1.0-1 and missing the buildsys changes
<Laney> no comment
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-11
<dholbach> good morning
<shadeslayer> MOTU's can't sync stuff can they?
<shadeslayer> only archive admins IIRC
<Unit193> It'd be like a standard upload, just as long as it's in universe.
<shadeslayer> oh?
 * shadeslayer tries his first sync then
<Unit193> `syncpackage` in ubuntu-dev-tools
<shadeslayer> Unit193: yeah I know :)
<shadeslayer> \o/
<Unit193> Great.
<shadeslayer> thx Unit193 :D
<Unit193> Sure.
<shadeslayer> I thought syncs were done by archive admins for some reason
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: Since more than 3 years no anymore.
<shadeslayer> right :)
<ari-tczew> The reason was 'no script'.
<shadeslayer> *nod*
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-12
<Rhonda> hmm. why isn't the wiki updated with the utopic release?
 * Rhonda goes to check if she can update that
<Rhonda> When was the exact utopic release date?
<Unit193> 2014-10-23
<Unit193> There's also no vivid release schedule. :P
<Rhonda> That can't fix
<Rhonda> woha, lots and lots of people subscribed to the front page, even for small changes.  my bad. :)
<Rhonda> hihi, the only vivid page is one from lubuntu anyway. ;)
<Unit193> Vivid is a lie. :3
<rbasak> I just noticed that the tor package is liked to Vidalia upstream in Launchpad. I think this is wrong so I'll remove the link unless there are any objections.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-13
<saladim> cant get mini-buildd running. when preparing repository it says: SoSe call failed: No distribution definitions found in /var/lib/mini-buildd/repositories/test/conf/distributions!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-16
<ypwong> Hi MOTU, I have a new package and could use some help for review and sponsor :)
<ypwong> it is bug 1392283
<ubottu> bug 1392283 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] indicator-keylock" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1392283
<sney> Noskcaj: what's irc.fef.net?
<sney> wrt ubuntu defaults in hexchat
<sney> hmm, never mind I suppose, though I wonder why your diff says you added it.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-09
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-10
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-11
<nemith> I am trying to patch network-manager in wily for a couple of crippling mtu bugs.  They are fixed upstream but i would like to repackage.  When i try to clone network manager via bzr branch lp:ubuntu/wily/network-manager I get a OUT-OF-DATE branch from 0.9.3
<dholbach> good morning
<robski> hello all
<robski> anyone I can ask a question about building the CUPS package ?
<Pici> [A
<Pici> (er, I have no comment on CUPS, just a keyboard/finger malfunction)
<robski> Pici, it's my first time visiting this chat-room, so forgive me for being ignorant about the scope of what's being discussed here
<robski> But I would like to get into contact with people that potentially are packaging packages for Ubuntu, such as the CUPS package.
<Pici> robski: you might have better luck asking in #ubuntu-packaging, but I fear that it might be as quiet as this channel at this time.
<Laney> robski: What are you after in particular?
<robski> There seems to be a long-lasting (= since 2014) bug in CUPS, introduced in CUPS somewhere around version 1.7
<robski> Ubuntu 14.04 currently bundles CUPS 1.7.2 package
<robski> I have been trying to understand the status of this CUPS bug, and it would have been resolved since a while, not sure since which CUPS version.
<robski> The comments for Ubuntu are that people are waiting for a new CUPS package to be created for Ubuntu with the latest CUPS version (= 2.1.0)
<Laney> robski: Okay, try to talk to tkamppeter in #ubuntu-desktop maybe - he looks after cups
<robski> ok, sounds super cool as feedback. Thx, Laney
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> "Your privacy will not be violated by voting.  The voting service has already destroyed the record of your email address"
<Rhonda> Reading that in an unencrypted mail (where launchpad has a key for every person who signed the CoC) with a link to an unencrypted vote system is pretty â¦ brave?
<Rhonda> bold, that was the word I was looking for. :)
<Rhonda> I can see that it's about the intention of it, and the implementation that is used for the vote system itself.  But mailing this all unencrypted through the net and also having people to vote unencrypted doesn't really emphasise on that point.
<Rhonda> (and the vote server doesn't offer https, even if one would tweak the URL on the end part)
<ogra_> are you scared about manipulation or about redhat spying on the vote ?
<Rhonda> It's not so much about scared of, it's just about the statement which is wrong in that respect â¦
<rbasak> I suppose it depends on who you consider to be your adversaries.
<rbasak> Certainly it seems unlikely that your vote will be accessible to anyone involved with Ubuntu.
<rbasak> Maybe an exception is if you live in an Ubuntu-loving household and someone has compromised your end of your connection.
<rbasak> HTTPS would certainly be nice.
<rbasak> But I don't know how feasbile that is.
<Rhonda> rbasak: It's not "my end of connection".  It's every. single. network. point. in. between.
<Rhonda> Including all the mailservers used in the transport of the mail.
<rbasak> Rhonda: "I suppose it depends on who you consider to be your adversaries."
<Rhonda> So is this a "nothing to hide" style discussion?  Why claim in the first place then that the privacy won't be violated if no precautions have been made about that, whatsoever?=
<Rhonda> I wouldn't have expected such responses about that topic, to be honest.
<rbasak> I'm not saying that you don't have a point.
<rbasak> So yes, you do have a point, and yes, it would be nice if it were over HTTPS.
<rbasak> But Ubuntu doesn't run that service.
<rbasak> And in practice, for Ubuntu's needs, it's probably OK right now. We don't have anything better.
<Rhonda> https isn't the only thing.
<rbasak> Yeah, fair enough. Encrypted email is needed too.
<rbasak> Rhonda: looks like they have a suggestion box: http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_ebac27388e6f0a6d
<rbasak> Rhonda: maybe add HTTPS and PGP to their wishlist?
<Rhonda> https would be about the 19 hops I have from my home to the vote server. Let alone the hops in between that don't unguise themself in a traceroute.
<rbasak> I'd like to see this sort of thing be Free Software and easily deployable by eithers.
<Rhonda> It's though much more about the way the mail took to reach me, where the connection between the email address and the vote hash is clearly visible to anyone on the route.
<rbasak> Oh, it is.
<Rhonda> So is this your vote ID? :)
<Rhonda> Ah, wait, had to wait for the website to build.
<rbasak> I think it's the poll ID. For the suggestion box :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-12
<dholbach> good morning
<Na3iL> o/ @ALL am new here, I am currently reading the guide on Packaging guide,  I hope that I will help as much as I can :)
<thebwt> Howdy, welcome use all with utmost moderation.
<Na3iL> thank you thebwt :) sure
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-13
<hay207> hi guys, how long does pbuilder takes, it's stuck at  Retrieving Release.gpg
<hay207> almost 15 minutes passed now
<hay207> nvm, it works now, after retyping command
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-14
<darkxst> anyone around that could upload http://pastebin.com/4vcJxuRb for me? I should have upload rights to it, but its a new source package and packagesets haven't updated yet
<darkxst> it really needs to land before next daily build kicks off later tonight ;)
<darkxst> infinity, perhaps? ^
<infinity> darkxst: Can do.
<darkxst> infinity, thanks ;)
<infinity> darkxst: Done.
<infinity> darkxst: And added gdm3 to the ubuntugnome packageset for next time.
<darkxst> infinity, laney has script that is meant to handle the packagesets ;)
<infinity> darkxst: Well, I cheated. :P
<darkxst> infinity, ok
<darkxst> it was a pretty epic merge
 * darkxst waiting for the real fallout 
<darkxst> gdm hadnt been merged since the 2.x days, and the whole gdm -> gdm3 change made for fun
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-15
<Unit193> micahg: General ping, Bug 1510329, Bug 1510331
<ubottu> bug 1510329 in trusty-backports "Please backport parsedatetime 1.4-1 (main) from xenial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510329
<ubottu> bug 1510331 in trusty-backports "Please backport gcalcli 3.3.2-1 (universe) from xenial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510331
<micahg> still having trouble with my sbuild :(
<Unit193> Oh wow, quick response there!  Anything I can do?
<micahg> nope, just need to find time to debug
<Unit193> Bummer, OK.  Thanks.
<Unit193> Also requested a sync, 1516134.
<micahg> I"ll see what I can do
<Unit193> Danke.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-15
<teward> any MOTU able to process a sync request, or should I just wait for the sponsors team to get to it (it's over a week old)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-16
<teward> anyone on the MOTU / sponsors team able to sponsor a sync of nitroshare from Unstable (as indicated in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1639882)?  (Debian maintainer poked me (via Ask Ubuntu chat where we both hang oug) to help try and get it synced in, but I don't have rights)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1639882 in nitroshare (Ubuntu) "Sync nitroshare 0.3.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<sil2100> teward: I might try taking a look at it, but possibly tomorrow
<teward> sil2100: sounds good, would just like it reviewed before we hit freeze (and the maintainer keeps poking heh)
<teward> s/reviewed before/reviewed long before/
<sil2100> Ok, let me throw it onto my TODO list
<teward> sil2100: sounds good.  For the record, as detailed in the bug, the existing delta can be dropped :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-18
<teward> sil2100: you can remove the sync from your radar.  pitti got to it via the sponsors system I think
#ubuntu-motu 2017-11-14
<Unit193> tsimonq2: In case you didn't notice, mini-dinstall was already merged.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: How am I related to that again? :)
<Unit193> We talked about it, and the possibility that the delta doesn't make sense.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-11-15
<tsimonq2> Oh
<tsimonq2> Right.
<Unit193> Specifically, I think it's a bit of a detriment.
