#launchpad-meeting 2008-03-18
<statik> reviewer meeting in 32 minutes
<statik> oh wait, I got tuesday and wednesday micxed up again, ignore me
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to:  Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Meeting Logs: Logs available at http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting/
<Rinchen> new mootbot location
#launchpad-meeting 2008-03-19
<flacoste> do we have a chair?
<danilos> nobody volunteered so far
<sinzui> do we have anyone who knows how to play with the bot
<gmb> Isn't statik chairing?
<gmb> Or was that last week?
<intellectronica> gmb: statik apologised that he can't chair today
<sinzui> statik: has a conflicting appointment
<gmb> Any volunteers?
<intellectronica> i propose gmb ;)
 * gmb saw that coming
<gmb> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:03. The chair is gmb.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<gmb> Right.
<gmb> Welcome, folks, to the AMEU reviewer meeting.
<gmb> Our agenda for today is...
 * gmb hunts
<gmb>  * Roll call
<gmb>  * Next meeting
<gmb>  * Action items
<gmb>  * Queue status
<gmb>  * Mentoring update
<gmb>  * Review process
<gmb> So.
<gmb> [TOPIC] Roll call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll call
<danilos> me
<sinzui> me
<bac> me
<intellectronica> me
<gmb> flacoste: You?
<jt2> me
<salgado> me
<allenap> me
<flacoste> me
<gmb> Okay. Feel free to drag other reviewers in if you see them :)
<gmb> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<kiko> me
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
 * kiko yays for MootBot 
<gmb> Same time same place?
<gmb> [AGREED] Next meeting 2008-03-26 14:00 UTC
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Next meeting 2008-03-26 14:00 UTC
<gmb> Anyone know they won't be able to make the next meeting?
<gmb> I think I'm going to miss it actually.
<BjornT> me
<gmb> Right, so I won't be here next week.
<gmb> But barry will be back, so at least we'll have a chairman :)
<gmb> So, moving on
<gmb> [TOPIC] Action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action items
<gmb> * gmb to hack review-submit to enforce 800 line limit.
 * gmb FAIL
<gmb> ... and we'll leave that on the list
<gmb>  * schwuk to work with mwhudson to get instructions for running loggerhead onto the    wiki
<gmb> schwuk: Around?
<schwuk> gmb: yes - forgot the meeting had moved
<schwuk> gmb: https://launchpad.canonical.com/RunningLoggerhead
<gmb> schwuk: You have an action item re: loggerhead. What's the status of that?
<gmb> Ah, cool!
<bigjools> me, sorry, late
<gmb> schwuk gets a coconut.
<schwuk> w00t!
<gmb> [TOPIOC
<gmb> *sigh*
<gmb> [TOPIC]
<MootBot> New Topic:
<gmb> [TOPIC] Queue status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Queue status
<gmb> Can you tell it's my first time, folks?
<gmb> The queue looks relatively clean. There are a couple of branches that have been there for a while but they belong to jamesh and jml...
<Rinchen> mootbot virgin? :-)
<gmb> Chairman virgin, never mind MootBot.
<Rinchen> aye aye
<gmb> Does anyone know the status of those branches?
<gmb> [ACTION] gmb to contact jamesh and jml about the status of their overdue branches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  gmb to contact jamesh and jml about the status of their overdue branches
<intellectronica> one branch left on the queue which i'm reviewing and will finish after the meeting
<gmb> intellectronica: Cool.
<gmb> I think that things have been moving pretty smoothly queue wise
<gmb> PQM's been struggling to keep up :)
<gmb> So, shooting onwards towards apotheosis...
<danilos> maybe an idea for new meeting topic? 'PQM status' :)
<gmb> danilos: Only if you want to hear me moan about getting rejected all the time :)
<danilos> :)
<gmb> [TOPIC] Mentoring update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mentoring update
<gmb> Any mentors / mentees got anything to say at this point?
<sinzui> schwuk: I think you should take an on-call slot
<sinzui> schwuk: you will have to when you graduate anyway
<schwuk> I was just going to say that I think I need to pick up more branches
<gmb> Right.
<gmb> sinzui, schwuk: In my experience, sharing an on-call slot works well.
<sinzui> It's hard to get branches if you not on-call
<bac> allenap probably a good idea for you too.  how are your tuesdays?
<allenap> bac, Tuesdays are fine, so sign me up.
<bigjools> I was going to try and join gmb for on-call but Soyuz has been freakishly busy this cycle :(
<bac> it's a wiki -- sign yourself up!
<gmb> [AGREED] allenap to take Tuesday on-call review slot with bac
<MootBot> AGREED received:  allenap to take Tuesday on-call review slot with bac
<gmb> bigjools: I was going to say that, but I saw your status on Monday and thought I'd give you some peace.
<gmb> bigjools: Are you going to be busy this monday coming?
<schwuk> Sharing the slot won't work for the next couple of weeks - Public holiday this Friday and planned leave next Friday. I'll see about taking another day next week.
<bigjools> gmb: hopefully not, it's easter
<schwuk> gmb: Bank Holiday on Monday
<gmb> Hah.
<gmb> Spot the ignorant heathen.
<schwuk> gmb: I'd have forgiven you if you weren't, you know, *British*.
 * gmb fails again
<gmb> Oh well.
<gmb> So, schwuk, you'll look at doing on-call some time next week, then.
<schwuk> gmb: yes - I'll update the rota.
<gmb> bigjools: Do you want to do the same?
<bigjools> I'll try and volunteer for on-call ad-hoc when Soyuz is calmer!
<gmb> [AGREED] schwuk to look into doing an on-call day next week
<MootBot> AGREED received:  schwuk to look into doing an on-call day next week
<gmb> [AGREED] bigjools to insert himself in the on-call rota when Soyuz calms down
<kiko> bigjools, why don't you do half-days?
<MootBot> AGREED received:  bigjools to insert himself in the on-call rota when Soyuz calms down
<danilos> bigjools: that's going to be... never :)
<kiko> otherwise this "soyuz calms down" thing never happens
<bigjools> kiko: on-call is usually half a day anyway I thought
<kiko> so..
<bigjools> next cycle will bne much easier
<kiko> say yes
<kiko> doubt that!
<bigjools> are you not telling me something? :)
<bigjools> ok, I will join gmb a week Monday
<kiko> yes, that you have a natural talent for underestimating! :)
<gmb> bigjools: I'm off then. But barry'll be back
<bigjools> good point, I'll join barry then
<gmb> [AGREED] bigjools to do on-call reviews on Mondays from 2008-03-31
<MootBot> AGREED received:  bigjools to do on-call reviews on Mondays from 2008-03-31
<gmb> Anyone got anything to add on this topic?
<gmb> 5
<gmb> 4
<gmb> 3
<gmb> 2
<gmb> 1
<gmb> [TOPIC] Review process
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review process
<gmb> Does anyone have any comments about the review process? Any ideas about how it could be made more efficient?
<gmb> Well, we'll assume that we're doing it right for the time being, then :)
<gmb> Okay, that covers it for today's super-short meeting
<bigjools> one point I'd like to make
<gmb> Hurrah!
<bigjools> to see if anyone agrees
<bigjools> since the PQM queue is so big, is it worth merging multiple branches to speed things up?
<bigjools> multiple ones that are your own, I mean
<gmb> bigjools: That screws up the changelog, though, and makes more work for mrevell and Rinchen.
<bigjools> what about if it's two [!log] jobs?
<schwuk> bigjools: I've seen intellectronica and cprov do that before
<Rinchen>  !logs are fine to merge together
<intellectronica> bigjools: how confident are you that they will all pass? also, it's nice to have the entries in the changelog
<bigjools> I try and do it too, with [!log] stuff
<sinzui> I think it should be considered and done when it does not mess with the review or the changelog
<intellectronica> schwuk: only for very trivial branches
<bigjools> it's down to your discretion, but for really simple [!log] stuff it makes a lot of sense to me
<schwuk> intellectronica: but you have done it :)
<gmb> For simple, [!log] stuff, yes, I'd agree it's probably okay.
<cprov> schwuk: as long as it doesn't mess your commit message, I'd say.
<Rinchen> So, !logs are ok to merge but if you end up merging two regular items, please consider either updating the PQM subject to reflect both OR, sending mrevell a note with the RF number and the two commit msgs
<intellectronica> schwuk: i can't deny that, no :)
<gmb> Rinchen: Do you want to mail the lp@ list about this matter to clarify things?
<Rinchen> gmb, I'd be happy to. I'll do that now.
<gmb> Since the queue was he-awge over the weekend.
 * bigjools is just looking for a way to help with the increased test run time and bigger PQM queues
<gmb> [ACTION] Rinchen to mail the list about merging [!log] reviews.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to mail the list about merging [!log] reviews.
<gmb> Okay.
<bigjools> coolio, thanks
<gmb> Does anyone have any other business they'd like to bring up?
<gmb> 5
<gmb> 4
<gmb> 3
<gmb> 2
<gmb> 1
<gmb> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:29.
<gmb> Thanks folks!
<bac> thanks graham
<bigjools> thanks gmb
<intellectronica> thanks gmb, excellent chairing, if i may
<gmb> Heh, thanks.
<schwuk> thanks gmb
#launchpad-meeting 2008-03-20
 * bigjools waves at al-maisan
<al-maisan> bigjools: thanks!
<bigjools> np
<matsubara> meeting time?
<Rinchen> just about
<Rinchen> ahem
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:59. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> yea mootbot
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<jtv> me
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<danilos> me
<mars> me
<adeuring> me
<allenap> me
<gmb> me
<bigjools> me
<cprov> meme
<salgado> me
<cprov> err, me
<matsubara> me
<Rinchen> mrevell, ?
<mrevell> nw
<flacoste> me
<mrevell> er
<mrevell> me
<mthaddon> me
<leonardr> me
<Rinchen> I have apologies from bac, thumper, carlos, BjornT, mwhudson, mpt
<al-maisan> al-maisan: me
<al-maisan> me
<intellectronica> me
<Rinchen> herb, jtv kiko-afk ?
<herb> me
<danilos> Rinchen: jtv was in just before the MootBot
<sinzui> me
<Rinchen> ah see him now, thanks
<jtv> Rinchen: and danilos was second
<Rinchen> statik, EdwinGrubbs ?
<statik> me
<statik> Rinchen: thanks for the pnig
<statik> ping
<schwuk_> me
<Rinchen> :-)
<Rinchen> SteveA, ?
<Rinchen> suspect the pycon folks won't be here
<Rinchen> well, moving on then...
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Rinchen>  * Next meeting
<Rinchen>  * Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<Rinchen>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * Bug tags
<Rinchen>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<Rinchen>  * DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen>  * New packages required (salgado)
<Rinchen>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<Rinchen>  * Doc Team report (mrevell)
<Rinchen>  * login() and "current" requests in doctest (flacoste)
<Rinchen>  * Blockers
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<Rinchen> next week, same time, same station.
<Rinchen> I know bac will be unable to attend.
<Rinchen> Anyone else?
<Rinchen> and for the lurkers:  Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.
<Rinchen> ok then.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> matsubara, flacoste and stub to discuss UTF-8 safety of byName and other random attacks to launchpad.net
<Rinchen> kiko - consider changing meeting time during next meeting  (Note it was discussed to wait until NZ goes to DST which is April 6th).
<flacoste> Rinchen: SteveA commented on the bug and we have a kind of resolution
<flacoste> Rinchen: still need to be implemented though
<matsubara> Rinchen, I've added the discussion in the bug report and stub said byName are safe enough. the method is doing the right thing.
<Rinchen> flacoste, matsubara - thanks. I'll drop that from the actions list then
<Rinchen> I'm going to punt Kiko's item for a bit
<Rinchen> [ACTION] kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 204344, 67899, 204355
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204344 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS merging an already merged proposal branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204344
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 67899 in malone "Large emails do not generate error messages to users" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/67899
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204355 in malone "UnicodeDecodeError decoding email header" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204355
<matsubara> sorry for the delay, I was finishing filing the last one.
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<matsubara> anyway, any code team representative today?
<gmb> matsubara: I'll bite.
<gmb> Wait
<gmb> You said code, not bugs
 * gmb goes back to sleep
<matsubara> bugs is the next one in the queue
<Rinchen> matsubara, I think they are not around today
<matsubara> :-)
<schwuk_> gmb_of_all_trades?
<matsubara> I'll assign the code one to thumper and he can decide later on
<Rinchen> gmb, we do have that cross-training program ;-)
<matsubara> the other two are bugs in the email interface
<matsubara> so, gmb already volunteered to take those :-)
<gmb> *theatrical sigh*
<intellectronica> gmb: i'll take one off you
<matsubara> actually, I'm not sure if 67899 description is really tru
<Rinchen> [ACTION] matsubara to email thumber  the code oops
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email thumber  the code oops
<matsubara> true
<gmb> intellectronica: Thanks.
<matsubara> intellectronica, we now tell users that an OOPS happened right?
<intellectronica> matsubara: we do in most cases (depending on the cause for the OOPS)
<matsubara> in any case, #67899 needs update to tell users why the email was rejected
<matsubara> right. I'll update the description.
<matsubara> thanks intellectronica and gmb
<matsubara> back to you Rinchen
<intellectronica> matsubara: yes, users should get an OOPS report about this error, but a clearer message would be even better
<gmb> intellectronica: I'll take 204355 in that case.
<Rinchen> [AGREED] intellectronica and gmb to work on the two bugs oopes
<MootBot> AGREED received:  intellectronica and gmb to work on the two bugs oopes
<intellectronica> gmb: i'll take 67899
<gmb> Bon.
<Rinchen> thanks guys
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936
<Rinchen> adeuring, how is this going? This is now about two weeks old, no?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/196106
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/201394
<Rinchen> danilo, jtv: how are these going? These are now about two weeks old, no?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/196106
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/201394
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 196106 in rosetta "context menu entry "Paste File" [and other dialogs] not translated into German (anymore)" [Critical,In progress]
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/203172
<Rinchen> jtv: What's the plan for this one?
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/203172
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 203172 in rosetta "Clashing platform-specific msgids in XPI" [Critical,New]
<jtv> Rinchen: just implemented that one
<danilos> Rinchen: one in pqm queue and waiting for kiko's approval to cherrypick, other only waiting for kiko's approval to cherrypick
<adeuring> Rinchen: I submitted a bug fix for review
<Rinchen> excellent!
<danilos> Rinchen: apparently, not talking about the same thing though :)
<danilos> 196106 is in pqm and waiting for cherrypick approval
<jtv> Rinchen: 201394 is still in PQM IIRC
<danilos> Rinchen: bug 200499 is actually waiting for approval as well
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 200499 in rosetta "Imported translation from upstream not correctly importing all strings" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200499
<Rinchen> k, that's great.  thanks.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
<Rinchen> we have one
<Rinchen> spurious-test-failure
<Rinchen> but it's for BjornT and kiko-afk
<Rinchen> who are both absent today
<Rinchen> https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<statik> thats not a tag it's a paragraph
<Rinchen> :-)
<gmb> statik: Yes, but we can't have "bastard" tag.
<statik> i'd be more interested in a "test" tag for all stuff related to the test system
<Rinchen> since the sponsors are not here, I'll leave that until next week
<statik> but thats just my mild opinion
<stub> Why not? That seems a bit specific for me.
<Rinchen> statik, we have that  test-system
<statik> ok, cool.
<Rinchen> so I'm going to move and punt this to next week
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)
<herb> Two cherrypicks went in for Production last week.
<herb> One cherrypick went in on edge today.
<herb> There is one cherrypick on the LaunchpadProductionStatus page awaiting approval.
<herb> Codebrowse was restarted on Monday in response to an alert.
<herb> lpnet2 was restarted earlier today.
<herb> The help wiki was updated to fix a handful of bugs.
<herb> Unless there are questions, that's it from mthaddon and me.
<herb> err the cherry pick on edge went in on Monday not today.
<statik> herb: any idea of the load on squid? is it holding up alright?
<herb> statik: I haven't looked recently.  will take a look after the meeting though.
<statik> herb: cool, thank you
<Rinchen> [TOPIC]  DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:   DBA report (stub)
<stub> Nothing from me this week. Don't all applaud at once.
 * Rinchen applauds.
 * jtv applauds first
<jtv> damn
 * Rinchen laughs.
<statik> stub: I've been running with PG 8.3 locally, is there anything I should be doing to help the migration?
<flacoste> stub: maris is also running 8.3 i think
<stub> statik: AFIK the whole test suite is passing, so nothing more to do from the devs
<stub> Just a scheduling and.... replication... issue
<statik> excellent
<stub> (hope to use replication to avoid the 3 hours downtime to migrate to 8.3)
<Rinchen> stub, how is the replication activity going?
<Rinchen> stub, we're all excited about it
<stub> Been working on it today
<stub> 8.3 upgrade should be no problem
<stub> The tools to do database migration for devs, staging and production is the problem
<Rinchen> thanks
<stub> What we have is pretty bulletproof at the moment, and I'd like to keep that.
<Rinchen> I think we all would :-)
<Rinchen> thanks
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
<Rinchen> I know about Kiko's request for the wikis.
<bigjools> Rinchen: just my one for the private PPA server
<Rinchen> bigjools, I'll look at that one again. I didn't read through the dialog that happened earlier this week.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
<MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
<salgado> if any of the branches you're working on right now  depends on any     library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP.
<bigjools> Rinchen: elmo said he would do it after I had a phone call with him, not sure what the status is, but it would be nice to get this for 1.2.3
<adeuring> salgado: I sent you a mail: is the libx
<salgado> adeuring, already replied
<adeuring> salgado: thanks!
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> howdy
<mrevell> I'd like to raise the issue of spam, or other inappropriate cont
<mrevell> oops
<mrevell> I'd like to raise the issue of spam, or other inappropriate content, in bug comments. This has come up on launchpad-users and mpt points to bug 45419 (Launchpad needs a way of easily flagging spam).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45419 in launchpad "Launchpad needs a way of easily flagging spam" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45419
<mrevell> So, I'm wondering if people have noticed more spam in bug comments. mthaddon - as one of the people that deletes spam, have you noticed a change?
<herb> I know it was driving me a bit crazy last week in mthaddon's absence.
<mthaddon> mrevell, definitely enough to be annoying (esp. given our current process for dealing with them), but couldn't give you any real statistical evidence
<mthaddon> basically I think herb and I would be very happy if this was made a bigger priority
<mrevell> Okay, cheers guys. I want to try to get a feel for whether this an increasing problem, so I'll keep checking back with you
<mthaddon> is it possible to get this targeted - it's taking valuable OSA time?
<intellectronica> mthaddon: maybe as a first step we can make it easier to get rid of a spammy message once it has been identified?
<mthaddon> intellectronica, that would be a great first step
<Rinchen> indeed.
<mthaddon> intellectronica, allowing for administrative editing or deletion of comments would be great
<mrevell> Is it a big job to implement?
<gmb> mrevell: I wouldn't have thought so.
<herb> it would be nice if project admins could police their own projects
<flacoste> herb: for the moment, we are afraid of censorship
<gmb> herb: Yes, but it would be easier to make it so that Launchpad admins could do it. We could move onto project admins later.
<mrevell> One of the benefits of LP is... oh, flacoste made the point
<flacoste> herb: so that would require a workflow
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Need to elevate the priority of allowing administrative editing / deletion of comments to help ease the removal of spam
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Need to elevate the priority of allowing administrative editing / deletion of comments to help ease the removal of spam
<mrevell> thanks guys
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/45419
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/45419
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45419 in launchpad "Launchpad needs a way of easily flagging spam" [Medium,Confirmed]
<stub> People can already censor if they are running their own trackers
<stub> I think in reality censorship isn't much of an issue (?)
<statik> especially not when LP makes it so easy to fork a project
<flacoste> if instead of removing comments we hide them
<flacoste> it would be easy for people to complain and for an admin to unflag them
<statik> +1 on that idea
<gmb> +1
<mthaddon> ditto
<sinzui> +1
<Rinchen> our Legal information dictates a policy for this. Censorship is not something we do. https://help.launchpad.net/Legal
<Rinchen> spam removal is.
<flacoste> that also solves the problem of comment index moving when removing a comment
<stub> sure, although if a project maintainer wants to 'garden' comments and we don't let 'em they will go elsewhere.
<Rinchen> hiding would be a better solution
<herb> Rinchen: but if you give it to the project admins, it's not "us" censoring anything (should that problem arise).
<Rinchen> indeed
<intellectronica> Rinchen: hey, someone censored my legitimate comment offering cheap generic medicine as a solution to that bug, i protest! ;-)
<mrevell> :)
<Rinchen> on that note
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)
<mrevell> Hey now
<stub> Self medication solves many problems.
<mrevell> I'm both cheap and generic
<jtv> Rinchen: not that kind of "doc"
<mrevell> I posted some projects  and bugs related material to the team list for your review and would grateful for any comments. This week I've had my head down working solidly on the new user guide and some work on new tour material. I know everyone's busy, but if you could take a look and get back to me with comments, that would be most helpful and enable me to make these new docs live.
<mrevell> Next week, in between release announcement stuff, I'll be working getting this draft of the new tour finished, ready for review.
<mrevell> Last week kiko mentioned the idea of each LP team working with me to produce some materials. I'm keen for that to happen and would like to speak to each team lead next week.
<statik> mrevell: i'm excited to see the new tour, i point people to the tour almost daily
<mrevell> statik: Ah great, maybe we should talk early next week.
<statik> monday, 4AM!
<mrevell> statik: I'd like to know more about what people want from it, that they've told you
<mrevell> statik: heh, ideal :)
<statik> mrevell: anytime next week I'd love to have a call, monday is pretty open
<mrevell> statik: I'll send you a calendar invite.
<Rinchen> mrevell, how is the doc team (i.e. users team) progressing?
<Rinchen> I'm interested to see how well that experiment goes
<mrevell> Rinchen: It's not something I've had time to progress lately, unfortunately. We have people who are interested and have joined the team. Next step is to get an inaugural meeting and let each member know about the mailing list. Neither of which should take me long at all, obviously.
<Rinchen> Week 0 maybe. Ok, thanks
<mrevell> Yeah, cheers.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] login() and "current" requests in doctest (flacoste)
<MootBot> New Topic:  login() and "current" requests in doctest (flacoste)
<flacoste> this is a simple information point
<flacoste> with the new canonical_url view_name parameter addition
<flacoste> some of your doc tests may change
<flacoste> this feature requires that the "current" request (retrieved through get_current_browser_request()) be setup
<flacoste> otherwise, you'll have AssertionError
<flacoste> the way to do this is simply to pass a request argument to login() as second parameter
<flacoste> login(ANONYMOUS, LaunchpadTestRequest()) will work nicely
<flacoste> that's it!
<Rinchen> flacoste, the existing doc tests will be updated?
<flacoste> yes
<flacoste> it's only for new doc test
<Rinchen> great, thanks.
<Rinchen> Any other impromptu topics before we head off?
<Rinchen> 3
<Rinchen> 2
<mars> we need to see more mugshots :)
<sinzui> Yes
<Rinchen> don't like's stub's toe?
<Rinchen> :-)
<mrevell> Yeah, all LP team members to brand their account!
<sinzui> We need more material to make pics for pirate day
<Rinchen> A general reminder the LP logo contest ends on 31 March.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Blockers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blockers
<Rinchen> Releases Team: Not blocked.
<jtv> Translations: not blocked
<intellectronica> sinzui: pirateday is an illegal site - we don't condone that sort of activity
<flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
<schwuk_> hwdb: Not blocked.
<bigjools> Soyuz: blocked on the RT you already know about :)
<schwuk_> intellectronica: you're confusing day with bay.
<statik> lpcomm: not blocked
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Soyuz block on PPA RT
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Soyuz block on PPA RT
<Rinchen> bugs?
<intellectronica> schwuk_: aaaaaaah
<intellectronica> bugs team: not blocked
<Rinchen> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<stub> intellectronica: You mean 'aargh'
<intellectronica> :)
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:45.
<Rinchen> photo finish!
<Rinchen> thanks all
<statik> Rinchen: nice timing! thanks for chairing
<mrevell> Thank you everyone for being so freaking cool.
#launchpad-meeting 2009-03-18
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello and welcome to this week's ameu reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
<flacoste> me
<sinzui> me
<vednis> me
<vednis> gah
<mars> me
<bac> me
<salgado> me
<mars> so, the team on sprint is all here
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * barry to miss the next two weeks
<barry>  * plurals, curtis
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> [TOPIC] * barry to miss the next two weeks
<MootBot> New Topic:  * barry to miss the next two weeks
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<barry> so, i'll be at pycon the next two weeks and won't be able to meet.  does someone want to take over chair duties for the next two weeks or should we bag the meeting?
 * barry can guess based on today's stellar attendance :)
<barry> i guess i'll send a message to the ml and we can just meet up again in 3 weeks
<barry> [TOPIC] * plurals, curtis
<MootBot> New Topic:  * plurals, curtis
<barry> sinzui: do you want to take this one?
<bigjools> me
<sinzui> I have struggled without how to write code in a clean and consisent fashion to handle cases where the page will say 1 member or 2 members.
<gmb> barry: Bugs team is sprinting this week, so BjornT, intellectronica, allenap, adeuring and I won't be here...
<barry> gmb: thanks
<sinzui> I once used ngettext, but I was told to remove it
<sinzui> should we have a tale formatter to handle this in the template?
<bigjools> how would it handle irregular plurals?
<sinzui> view/count/fmt:singular/member/members
<mars> sinzui, probably
<bac> what is the rationale for not using ngettext?
<mars> sinzui, since every other web framework has said formatter, we may take that as a hint ;)
<sinzui> bigjools: I do not know
<bigjools> sinzui: you answered me already with your example, you just provide the alternative.  np.
<barry> does zpt (or whatever sidnei is experimenting with) support this?
<sinzui> TALES i18n does not support ngettext either :(
<barry> flacoste: what do you think?
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> i think ngetttext is the way to go
<flacoste> but
<flacoste> curtis' suggestion is a good worst-solution
<flacoste> why can't we use ngetttext?
 * sinzui nods
<flacoste> hmm, i wish gary was here
<sinzui> I don't recall the reason I was told to remove it
<sinzui> danilos: was kind enough to tell me to use it
<gary_poster> me, sorry
<sinzui> My concern is that we void this situation my writing mediocre text like members: 1
<barry> gary_poster: hi.  we're asking about plural forms and ngettext in templates
<flacoste> gary_poster: we are discussing how to do plurals
<sinzui> s/void/avoid/
<flacoste> gary_poster: zope.i18n doesn't have any support for it i htink
<danilos> if are ever going to do proper i18n, we'd have to extend zope.i18n
<gary_poster> barry, flacoste: ok, thanks.  no support for plurals?  that's surprising
<danilos> if we are not interested in l10n as well, coming up with a simpler alternative might do the trick
<barry> gary_poster: sinzui suggested a formater, e.g. view/count/fmt:singular/member/members
<flacoste> barry: the problem with that is that it hurs i18n
<barry> flacoste: agreed!
<flacoste> barry: since that only supports english
<gary_poster> I'd want to go to the author (Stephan Richter, IIRC) and verify before going too far; I'd also strongly believe that Zope would be very interested in this if we were working on it
<barry> flacoste: i'd much rather use the zopey way if there is one
<barry> gary_poster: could you ping stephan and see what he recommends?
<gary_poster> I know of a zopey way for i18n collation...but don't know anything about plurals
<gary_poster> barry: yes will do
<danilos> everybody should note that ngettext-style depends on an argument (a number) being passed, so that's likely going to live in the view anyway
<barry> gary_poster: awesome, thanks
<flacoste> yes
<danilos> if it's going to be in the template, it's going to be pretty awkward I assume
<barry> [ACTION] gary_poster to check w/stephan richter about the best way to do plurals
<MootBot> ACTION received:  gary_poster to check w/stephan richter about the best way to do plurals
<flacoste> danilos: zope.i18n isn't about templates
<flacoste> danilos: tales uses zope.i18n for tempalte tranlsation
<danilos> flacoste: right, but people are mostly interested in how it can be applied in templates, if I am not mistaken
<flacoste> danilos: i think view/templates
<flacoste> danilos: you can't format a message like that in templates
<flacoste> since grammar might have to change also
<gary_poster> yes
<danilos> flacoste: you certainly can, but TAL would not really work too well with it
<flacoste> agreed
<gary_poster> danilos: have you seen a solution in another template language that works well?
<danilos> gary_poster: work well, plenty, look good, none :)
<gary_poster> s/language/system or whatever/
 * barry wants to ask if there are any template languages that actually do i18n well ;)
<gary_poster> danilos: heh :-)
<gary_poster> :-)
<danilos> I've usually had to extend systems with my own formatters (did that ages ago for smarty and cheetahtemplates)
<barry> okay cool.  gary_poster thanks for looking into that for us
<gary_poster> barry: sure, np.
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> does anybody have anything not already on the agenda?
<barry> phew
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>  * gary_poster to add `getStore()` as an alias for `_get_store()`
<gary_poster> that was locally, which I did
<gary_poster> (or at least that's how I interpreted it ;-) )
<barry> gary_poster: you landed that in a branch already, right?
<gary_poster> yeah
<barry> gary_poster: awesome, thanks
<gary_poster> cool, np
<barry>  * gary_poster will check to see if there's a bug open for adding a hook to `bzr send`, and submit one if there isn't
<gary_poster> nope :-(
<barry> np
<barry>  * flacoste to look into storm/sqlobject result set compatibility
<barry>  * flacoste to work on API reviewer cheat sheet
<flacoste> hmm
<barry> flacoste: r.u.hoover?
<flacoste> yeah
<flacoste> but i think allenap solved the first one
<flacoste> iirc
<allenap> flacoste: It should be in, or nearly merged into storm trunk. It should be an easy backport to our storm branch.
<allenap> flacoste: Yes, it is merged into storm trunk.
<sinzui> are we here?
<bac> yes we are
<sinzui> barry is gone?
<barry_> i'm back i guess
<barry_>  flacoste: keep these items or drop 'em?
<flacoste> barry: keep the hoover one
<barry_> you got it
<flacoste> allenap: should we drop the other one?
<allenap> flacoste: I don't follow...
<flacoste> allenap: storm result set compatibility
<allenap> I think we should have a new task to backport that change into the LP storm branch.
<allenap> I'll do that next week.
<barry_> allenap, flacoste cool, let's keep this on the agenda then
<flacoste> shouldn't we jsut try pdating storm?
<flacoste> i think jtv was also interested in changes on trunk
<allenap> I tried that once and there was lots of breakage, and I didn't have the fu to understand and fix.
<allenap> But we should do it. The longer we leave it, the greater the breakage.
<barry_> bigjools: i have your branch to review, thaks for working on those helper functions
<bigjools> no worries
<bigjools> it wasn't too hard
<barry_> [TOPIC] mentoring updates
<barry_> anything here?
<barry_> well, i think we're done
<barry_> #endmeeting
<barry_> thanks everyone (except you mootbot)
<gary_poster> :-) Thanks barry
<jml> rock. rock. rock. rock. rock.
<mwhudson> soil?
<jml> Ha
<jml> Are we having a meeting?
<thumper> here
<thumper> paper?
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> barry, There is already a meeting in progress.
<jml> tee hee
<barry> thank you mootbot
<barry> /msg mootbot shut up
<barry> okay okay, so... welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
<jml> I am.
<barry> jml: hi!
<mwhudson> i am too
<thumper> me
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<thumper> although I have about 13 minutes
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * barry to miss the next two weeks
<barry>  * plurals, curtis
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> [TOPIC]  * barry to miss the next two weeks
<MootBot> New Topic:   * barry to miss the next two weeks
<mwhudson> the one it two weeks time is pycon, right?
<barry> so i'll be gone for the next two meetings. it sounded like ameu didn't want to meet while i'm gone. what say you?
<jml> probably not.
<jml> the main benefit of this meeting is connecting with AMEU.
<barry> mwhudson: actually next week i'll be at pycon too
<mwhudson> right
<mwhudson> oh right
<mwhudson> i won't quite have left in 7 days time
<mwhudson> i leave in about 7.25 days i guess :)
<barry> :)
<mwhudson> anyway, no meetings for two weeks, ok, next
<barry> [TOPIC]  * plurals, curtis
<MootBot> New Topic:   * plurals, curtis
<barry> so in ameu sinzui brought up the problem of plural forms in zpts
<barry> which really aren't supported well
<mwhudson> ugh yes
<barry> after the meeting we discussed alternatives with gary (who did some research)
<barry> and sinzui proposed something like...
<barry> view/count/fmt:singular/message/messages
<barry> which we all kind of thought was okay
<barry> done.  any thoughts?
<jml> umm
<thumper> ick
<mwhudson> so fmt:singular adapts integers?
<jml> barry: I'd like to see a complete example, I think.
 * barry delurks sinzui
<thumper> I've used a plural helper in the view code
<jml> (because I have questions like mwhudson's)
<thumper> I don't like the idea of a tal formatter
<mwhudson> fmt:singular is a pretty crummy name
<sinzui> It's the same nasty for of ngettext(n, singular, plural)
<sinzui> it will not be pretty in templates
<sinzui> It may help us to avoid writing mediorce phrases like
<sinzui> proposed member: 1
 * thumper abstains
<jml> sinzui: so what is 'message' in that example?
<sinzui> fmt:singular/member/members
<sinzui> It does not help anyone that the 'member' text is move into a tag
 * jml feels a bit dense
<thumper> sinzui: what about fmt:singular/approved branch/approved branches/
<mwhudson> tal needs a switch construct
<thumper> do spaces kill it?
<sinzui> thumper: I would *love* that, but path adapters do not alolow spaces
<barry> s/approved//
<barry> well, we all agree it's not great, but there are limited options
<thumper> barry: I'm sure there are cases where we want two words
<thumper> approved in the tal wouldn't be translated
<jml> sinzui: so <p>You have <tal:flibble tal:replace="view/count/fmt:singular/flibble/flibbles"/></p>
<jml> ?
<sinzui> yes
 * thumper really has to run soon
<barry> thumper: a quick skip ahead to action items then...
 * mwhudson finds where he wrote "job<tal:s condition="python: job_count != 1">s</tal:s>"
<barry>  * thumper to open bug on `webservice` pagetests globs problem
<barry> mwhudson: ug, i'm not sure that's better :/
<jml> anyway
<mwhudson> it's not
 * thumper tries to remember what it was
<thumper> havent' filed one
<mwhudson> thumper: salgado is an admin
<thumper> was it that they are all salgado?
<mwhudson> in the sample data
<thumper> right
<thumper> not done
<barry> thumper: keep on the agenda or not's all i care about <wink>
<thumper> keep
<barry> thumper: got it
<barry> thx
<barry> anyway, just to close the loop on the plurals thing: if you guys have better ideas, please email the list.  nobody especially happy about the tal formatter, but we don't have better ideas
<jml> ok.
<mwhudson> has an email been sent to the list yet?
<barry> mwhudson: i don't think so.  i /think/ it was discussed in a review
<mwhudson> ok
<jml> it would be good if someone sent an email, I think.
 * barry hopes sinzui will email about it
<mwhudson> maybe we can trick sinzui into writing a mail
<barry> :)
<barry> mwhudson: i'll slip something into his coffee tomorrow morning
<barry> anyway...
<mwhudson> ok
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry> do you guys have anything not on the agenda today?
<jml> I have some things
<jml> * assertFoo vs failUnlessFoo
<jml> * messages in assertions & TestStyleGuide
<jml> * super vs upcalling
 * thumper leaves
<barry> jml: floor is yours
<jml> These all came up in reviews.
<barry> thumper: bye
<thumper> jml: I'll talk to you later about these
<jml> thumper: ok.
<jml> grepping shows assertFoo is currently preferred to failUnlessFoo.
<jml> I think we should lean that way.
<barry> jml: lean toward assertFoo?
<jml> barry: yeah. no need to use the failUnless methods at all, I reckon.
<barry> jml: very occasionally i find failUnless reads better, but generally i agree
<jml> cool.
<mwhudson> yes
<jml> apparently the TestStyleGuide recommends using messages in assertions
<mwhudson> sometimes i feel failFoo reads better for guard assertions
<barry> [ACTION] barry will add the preference for assertFoo to the TSG
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will add the preference for assertFoo to the TSG
<barry> mwhudson: agreed.  it shouldn't be a hard and fast rule, but a strong preference
<jml> to do this properly with the default TestCase, you need to do your own string substitution of values.
<barry> all else being equal
<jml> barry: +1
<mwhudson> jml: yeah, think often messages are superfluous
<mwhudson> barry: +1
<jml> superfluous and paradoxically confusing
<jml> I had a whole bunch of really useful arguments for this that I wielded in a review.
<jml> oh.
<barry> jml: i *really* like (informative) assert messages
<jml> barry: but wait, there's more :)
<jml> barry: I changed the default implementation of assertEqual in our base TestCase class (canonical.launchpad.testing.TestCase -- you're all using that, right?)
<mwhudson> given that we have tracebacks and assertFoo methods that produce reasonable messages on their own....
<jml> mwhudson: exactly
<jml> mwhudson: a message is often a cheap substitute for a domain-specific assert method.
<jml> anyway
<jml> the default implementation now includes the message *and* the two compared values, pretty printed, in the exception
<jml> just like bzrlib.
<barry> jml: wait.  you're not talking about assert statements!
<jml> barry: no, not assert statements, assertions in tests.
<jml> barry: sorry for the confusion.
<barry> jml: ah.  i think i'm starting to agree with you then :)
<jml> anyway.
<mwhudson> (we shouldn't write assert statements, probably, a different bikeshed though)
<jml> basically, the TSG should be updated to say a) we use *our* base TestCase, b) you don't need to provide a third parameter to assertEqual
<barry> jml: +1
<mwhudson> jml: +1
<jml> and the final thing is upcalling vs super.
<barry> jml: though i think we very often /don't/ use our TestCase :(
<jml> barry: TestCaseWithFactory is more commonly used, and it's a subclass.
<barry> [ACTION] barry to update TSG to state we should use our TestCase base and not use 3rd args to assertFoo()
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to update TSG to state we should use our TestCase base and not use 3rd args to assertFoo()
<jml> barry: my secret squirrel plan is to add testtools to rf deps and then make that the base of our base :)
<barry> jml: jfdi
<jml> need to RT & all that.
<jml> (which reminds me, can you please merge testtools into python trunk pls?)
 * barry coughs: zc.buildout
<jml> anyway, upcalls
<jml> personally, I think they are clearer. also, mostly in tests & Twisted-using code, you are forced to use them.
<barry> jml: i recall a long discussion with SteveA about this and that z3 basically requires you to super()
<jml> barry: and Twisted requires you to upcall :)
<barry> jml: there's no "up" in "super"
<barry> oh wait
<jml> barry: I haven't seen any subclassing APIs in z3
<mwhudson> jml: look at the request code sometime :)
<jml> as in z3 things you need to subclass to work.
<jml> mwhudson: I use my third eye for that stuff :)
<jml> almost everything in Launchpad isn't the request code though.
<barry> jml: how often does twisted and zope intersect?
<jml> anyway, I suggest that the review attitude to upcall vs super be, officially, "chill Winston".
<jml> barry: mostly in tests.
<jml> (where you have to upcall because most of the base classes are old-style)
<mwhudson> jml: heh
<barry> jml: yeah.  old-styles /have/ to upcall
<jml> barry: there's a lot of old-style code out there
<barry> jml: 'cept all our own classes are always new-style
<jml> Twisted, for one, hasn't switched because it *changes the API of the class*
<jml> barry: I have a Python riddle
<jml> class A
<jml> is oldstyle
 * barry only does haikus
<jml> __metaclass__ = type
<jml> class B(A):
<jml> class B is _____?
<jml> newstyle/
<jml> should it upcall or use super?
<jml> class C(B):
<jml> should it upcall or use super?
<jml> (Python is the ideal teaching language)
<mwhudson> jml: B is oldstyle
<mwhudson> jml: none of our exceptions would work if this wasn't true :)
<barry> it has to be because new style classes can't have only classic class bases
<jml> oh of course :)
<barry> so it has to upcall
<jml> anyway, I renew my request to relax the review attitude toward upcalling. :)
<barry> jml: so basically your suggestion is to chillax and let the dev do what they want?
<jml> barry: yes.
<jml> barry: as long as it works.
<mwhudson> +1
<barry> i'm okay with that
<jml> barry: cool.
<jml> that's all I have to say :)
<jml> []
<barry> jml: great, thanks!
<jml> barry: np.
<barry> i have nothing else for today.  how 'bout you?
<jml> not I.
<mwhudson> barry: i'm good
<mwhudson> barry: thanks
<barry> awesome, thanks guys.
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:06.
<barry> mwhudson: see you next week :)
<mwhudson> barry: yeah!
<barry> sinzui, bac, barry -> dinner
<mwhudson> barry: i arrive fairly late the night before the conf starts
<barry> mwhudson: thursday?
<mwhudson> barry: land at 2000 or so
<mwhudson> barry: yeah
<mwhudson> barry: i shall investigate hotel bars until i find someone i recognise :)
<barry> mwhudson: sounds like a plan!
<barry> mwhudson: i'll keep an eye out for ya
<barry> bye guys
<mwhudson> barry: cool
<mwhudson> bye
#launchpad-meeting 2009-03-19
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<rockstar> me
<danilos> me
<Ursinha> me
<stub> me
<gary_poster> me
<gary_poster> (for flacoste)
<matsubara> hi gary_poster
<gary_poster> hi :-)
<matsubara> herb,
<herb> me
<matsubara> bigjools, hi
<matsubara> sinzui, hi
<sinzui> me
<matsubara> ok, apologies from the Bugs team, as they're sprinting
<matsubara> eveyrone else is here.
<bigjools> me
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>   * Ursinha to file a bug about OOPS-1159EA69 and coordinate a fix with rockstar
<matsubara>    * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/345415
<matsubara>   * Ursinha to file a bug about OOPS-1166F631 and assign to intellectronica
<matsubara>    * https://launchpad.net/bugs/341766
<matsubara>   * sinzui to request CP for bugs 341085 and 341117
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1166F631
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 345415 in launchpad-bazaar "NoSuchDistroSeries OOPS in resolve_lp_path" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Bug 341085 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/341085 is private
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 341766 in malone "AttributeError OOPS when receiving data from apport on +filebug" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<matsubara> ok, Ursinha did her stuff
 * sinzui hangs head in shame
<matsubara> sinzui, did you request those CPs?
<sinzui> matsubara: I will do that within the hour
<matsubara> thanks sinzui
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<matsubara> Ursinha, go ahead
<Ursinha> have only one bug, sinzui: bug 340058
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340058 in launchpad-registry "Sometimes people/team pages don't load" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340058
<Ursinha> I'm experiencing that sometimes, it's annoying
<Ursinha> the other bug I have is for bugs: [action] talk to allenap/bjornt about a bug marked as won't fix, but had another OOPS occurrence: bug 341766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341766 in malone "AttributeError OOPS when receiving data from apport on +filebug" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341766
<sinzui> Ursinha: do you browse with maps on or off?
<matsubara> [action] talk to allenap/bjornt about a bug marked as won't fix, but had another OOPS occurrence: bug 341766
<MootBot> ACTION received:  talk to allenap/bjornt about a bug marked as won't fix, but had another OOPS occurrence: bug 341766
<Ursinha> sinzui: on
<Ursinha> sinzui: but it's random
<sinzui> Ursinha: I have experienced that once when I discovered I had bad connectivity to google.
<Ursinha> sometimes it happens
<Ursinha> hmmm
<matsubara> I couldn't reproduce that one
<danilos> sinzui, Ursinha: that should be easy to test, if it means no connectivity to google
<sinzui> well it was half a day. I wrote hide google maps to keep working
<matsubara> I wonder if it might be an firefox extension thing
<danilos> just adding 127.0.0.1 whatever-google.com to /etc/hosts could emulate it :)
<gary_poster> heh, good idea :-)
<matsubara> and try it with a clean firefox profile
<Ursinha> sinzui: I can do this testing and report on the bug
<matsubara> [action] ursinha to debug 340058 and results back to the report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ursinha to debug 340058 and results back to the report
<Ursinha> awesome
<Ursinha> no critical bugs
<Ursinha> so that's it
<sinzui> Ursinha: thanks. please do. There is not enough information for me to say this is a bug
<matsubara> ok, thanks Ursinha, sinzui
<matsubara> moving on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> 2009-03-13 - Cherry picked r7939 to the codehosting server as a fix for bug #260171.
<ubottu> Bug 260171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/260171 is private
<herb> 2009-03-14 - The librarian box hung and didn't come back cleanly when power cycled. The librarian service was unavailable for about an hour and a half.
<herb> 2009-03-17 - Cherry picked r7942 to the scripts server as a fix for bug #337658.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337658 in rosetta "Disable success notifications for published uploads" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337658
<herb> Bug #156453 and bug #118625 continue to be a problem for us.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<herb> Bug #45419 continues to be  a pain point for the LOSAs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 45419 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad needs a way of easily flagging spam" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45419
<herb> There are currently 2 requested cherry picks pending approval/rejection, and have been that way for more than a week. Can we get those approved or rejected?
<danilos> I'd also mention that staging is under a special regime, for anyone who hasn't seen my email
<herb> danilos: good point. thanks
<gary_poster> Is it appropriate to ask now about the status of [rt.admin.canonical.com #32927] launchpad buildbot master in data center ?
<mthaddon> gary_poster: it's in the "setting up the EC2 account" stage
<gary_poster> mthaddon: cool, thanks
<herb> gary_poster: you can ask. I don't have any input for you though.  I'll can look into it for you.
<danilos> matsubara: who's the soyuz QA contact?
<matsubara> bigjools, ^
 * bigjools waves
<gary_poster> herb: cool
<herb> or mthaddon can tell you where we stand. :p
<gary_poster> :-)
<danilos> bigjools: the two cherrypick requests are from cprov, just fyi :)
<matsubara> bigjools, kiko/flacoste needs to approve those. can you sort it out with one of them?
<bigjools> matsubara: talk to me after the meeting about this please
<herb> I think that's it from us unless there are questions.
<matsubara> [action] bigjools to chase kiko or flacoste to approve CPs. matsubara to remind him about it :-)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bigjools to chase kiko or flacoste to approve CPs. matsubara to remind him about it :-)
<matsubara> bigjools, sure
<matsubara> rockstar, do you have any news about the LH thing?
<rockstar> matsubara, nothing definitive.
<matsubara> rockstar, still chasing the root cause?
<rockstar> matsubara, basically.  It's voodoo at this point.
<matsubara> :-(
<matsubara> well, nothing much we can do here then...
<matsubara> let's move on. thanks herb and everyone else
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<stub> The new slave is online and ticking away happily. Its lonely though - LOSAs should configure some of the app servers to talk to it soon. Batch jobs should consider making use of slave databases as we now have spare capacity there.
<stub> It will be interesting to see how the new 16 core box compares to the existing 8 core boxes. Not many people get to play with DB setups in the same league, so we are in somewhat uncharted territory. Previous anecdotal evidence had the twin core Opterons outperforming the quad core Xeons, but that was a while ago and it is a moving target.
<stub> We still need a real load balancer to distribute connections to the slaves. What we have is fine though until the batch jobs start making heavy use of the slaves.
<stub> oot.
<matsubara> all right. questions for stub?
<matsubara>  thanks stub
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:21.
<Ursinha> thanks matsubara and MootBot
<gary_poster> thanks
<rockstar> matsubara, I had a point to bring up about the format.
<matsubara> rockstar, sorry, what format?
<rockstar> Oops Report / Critical Bugs should be condensed down to Critical bug status
<mthaddon> rockstar: what do you mean by "it's voodoo at this point"? is it not reproducible locally (setup an instance with a large branch history and browse it)?
<danilos> matsubara: thanks
<rockstar> Often, when OOPS reports are referenced, I haven't seen them before, and so I'm not prepared really to make a full comment.
<rockstar> mthaddon, I mean "We shook this part of loggerhead, and fixed its performance.  Did it work?  Do I need to make a sacrifice to Apollo?"
<mthaddon> rockstar: but presumably you're still able to reproduce the problem locally?
<matsubara> rockstar, right. I asked Ursinha to bring up only bugs instead oopses, that way we keep the discussion in the report
<rockstar> matsubara, also, we should know about critical bugs before the meeting, so that we have something to report.
<matsubara> and when we deal with newly filed bug reports re: unseen oopses, the meeting section would be a topic to remind you to investigate that report further
<rockstar> mthaddon, nominally.  We can see the memory climbing, but we don't really get the "hang" which I'm presuming is a separate bug.
<rockstar> mthaddon, the "hang" is probably specific to the way Launchpad serves branches, so we'll probably need to do some sleuthing there.
<mthaddon> rockstar: so it continues to respond quickly for you? The "hang" is basically just "it takes more than 20 seconds to respond and our proxy connection times out
<mthaddon> s/out/out"/
<matsubara> rockstar, we kinda expect you to know about critical bugs under your teams responsibility
<rockstar> mthaddon, but mwhudson has landed quite a few branches to make loggerhead load only what's used when it's used.
<mthaddon> rockstar: I'll chat with mwhudson when he comes online later - I haven't asked him specifically about what he can and can't reproduce - thx
<matsubara> rockstar, so basically, what I'm saying is that the QA contact should check the critical bugs for their team before the meeting.
<rockstar> matsubara, except that this is the first thing I do in the morning.
<rockstar> :/
<matsubara> rockstar, hmm that's a fair point.
<rockstar> matsubara, but basically, I think it should be treated more like an action
<rockstar> "rockstar to report on critical bug 123456"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
<matsubara> I'd suggest check those criticals the day before then
<rockstar> ubottu, sofa king we todd did
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<matsubara> rockstar, and for new things that you're not prepared for, I think what you're suggesting is perfectly fine
<rockstar> matsubara, okay, great.
<matsubara> rockstar, thanks for the suggestions.
#launchpad-meeting 2010-03-24
<bac> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is bac.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bac> sorry i'm late
<bac> welcome to the LP Reviewers meeting.  who is here today?
<gary_poster> me!  me!  me!
<bac> hi gary_poster!
<gary_poster> hi :-)
<gary_poster> leonardr, mars, salgado reviewer's mtg
<salgado> me
<leonardr> me
<mars> me
<EdwinGrubbs> Me
<deryck> me
 * gmb , allenap and abel are sprinting
<bac> gmb: thanks
<bac> danilos, bigjools: ping
<bac> sinzui: ping
<sinzui> me
<danilos> bac, sorry, sprinting
<bac> danilos: ok
<danilos> (along with the rest of translations team)
<bac> abentley: ping
<abentley> me
<bac> flacoste: hi
<bac> [topic] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<bac>  * Roll call
<bac>  * Agenda
<bac>  * Outstanding actions
<bac>  * New topics
<bac>  * Peanut gallery
<flacoste> hi bac
<bac> sorry for the confusion over the time.  going forward it is at 1400UTC and i believe is correct on our google calendar
<bac> [topic] outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
<bac> [topic] * rockstar to update bugs to reflect new naming convention and will update the style guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  * rockstar to update bugs to reflect new naming convention and will update the style guide
<bac> is rockstar here?
<bac> i'll check with him in the ASIAPAC meeting
<bac> [topic] * bac to update wiki re: interim status of community reviewers and committers
<MootBot> New Topic:  * bac to update wiki re: interim status of community reviewers and committers
<bac> i have not done this.  :(
<bac> i did talk to andrewsinclair yesterday but he deferred any opinion to amanda
<bac> i've been trying to talk to her on IRC but haven't been successful
<bac> so, i'll keep this item around
<bac> and, for some very welcome news
<bac> [topic]  * leonardr to create an example for automated lplib tests in the launchpad tree.  (revisit 24-Mar).
<MootBot> New Topic:   * leonardr to create an example for automated lplib tests in the launchpad tree.  (revisit 24-Mar).
<leonardr> hello
<leonardr> i just landed the branch that demonstrates this
<leonardr> take a look in lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/webservice/launchpadlib.txt
<bigjools> me
<leonardr> there's a Launchpad object available as 'launchpad'
<leonardr> so you can just do this:
<leonardr>   >>> print launchpad.me.name
<leonardr>   salgado
<bac> leonardr: is it easy to get a non-salgado person or an anonymous one?
<leonardr> bac: you'd have to set it up in pages.py, similar to anon_browser and anon_webservice
<leonardr> anonymous access would be easy. i don't know about non-salgado access, because i don't know if there are oauth credentials set up for non-salgado users
<noodles775> me
<bac> ok.  i think it's be useful, especially since we have had problems getting some collections for anonymous access
<leonardr> yeah, anonymous is easy
<bac> thanks a lot leonardr for setting this up.  it'll help close a big gap in our testing.
<leonardr> sure
<sinzui> I would like to move webservice/* tests out of stories. but I do not know where to.
<bigjools> I fear for the performance but that's a separate topic for another day
 * sinzui wonders is interfaces/tests is better, or api/tests
<bac> we have no new items on the agenda
<bac> [topic] peanuts
<MootBot> New Topic:  peanuts
<bac> any one have a discussion topic?
<bac> going once...
<bac> twice...
<bac> oh, i do!
<bac> thanks to abentley for the reminder about +activereviews.  please do your part to land or change the status of those festering branches.
<noodles775> heh
<bac> thanks for coming everyone.  have a good day.
<bac> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:17.
<bac> thumper, mwhudson, rockstar : ping
<thumper> hi
<bac> hey y'all around for a quick meeting?
<mwhudson> bac: hi
<thumper> yep
<bac> mwhudson: you'll be please i found a 'flood control' setting on my irc client that was not set up right.  hope to not repeat the flooding.
<bac> the big news from today's AMEU meeting came from leonard
<bac> he just landed a branch that has an example of how to write launchpadlib tests that get run in our test suite
<bac> that's something we've been needing for a good long time
<mwhudson> ah cool
<bac> "take a look in lib/canonical/launchpad/pagetests/webservice/launchpadlib.txt"
<bac> there is a 'launchpad' object that is connected as salgado
<thumper> that location makes me sad
 * rockstar i here
 * thumper wishes for lp/services/webservice/doc or something
<bac> thumper: yeah, sinzui was asking for a better place to put webservice tests
<bac> hi rockstar
<rockstar> thumper, the type of test is what makes me sad
<bac> leonard said it would be trivial to have a lp object for anonymous testing.  he didn't commit to doing it right away so it's open.
<bac> and bigjools is sad that the tests will probably be slow
<thumper> we'll make sure it works in unit tests well :)
<bac> we sure are a gloomy lot
<rockstar> thumper, yes, yes we will.
<rockstar> bac, :)
<bac> hey rockstar you have an outstanding action item...the details of which i cannot remember.  do you?
<rockstar> bac, yes, and they are done.
<thumper> this is what makes me more sad: "pre-authenticated with salgado's permissions"
<thumper> why do we insist on continuing with sample data tests?
<bac> cool, rockstar.  remind us of what you did
<rockstar> bac, basically, I needed to change the Javascript coding standards for the new module names.
<mwhudson> particularly given that salgado is an admin in the sample data!!
<bac> ah, right.  did you file a bunch of bugs?
<thumper> :((
<rockstar> ^^ sad and fat?
<thumper> rockstar: just really sad
<bac> thumper would you like to voice your sadness on the ML?
<thumper> sure
<rockstar> bac, also, launchpad-ui-reviewers is a good team to use to remind yourself to go find a ui reviewer.
<bac> it's not ideal but i'm glad we've gotten something we can automate
<rockstar> No one on the team is going to just pick up the requested review, so it's solely up to the reviewee to go find a specific person on the team.
<bac> ok
<rockstar> bac, can I suggest one thing?
<bac> rockstar: so it's only nominally better than looking at a wiki page
<bac> sure
<rockstar> bac, so, I have found that the general attitude of the on call reviewer has kinda started feeling like review lackey recently.
<rockstar> People just come into #launchpad-reviews, pop themselves on the queue, and then disappear.
<bac> rockstar: well, if you don't agree to it beforehand they are supposed to stick around
<bac> and you're free to drop their review if they aren't going to be around for interaction
<rockstar> I think a nice reminder that it's the submitter's responsibility to get a review and not the reviewer's job to just figure it out.
<bac> it's a good thing to bring up
<rockstar> bac, yes, I know that.  Community contributions tend to have this issue more than anyone else, but I think a gentle reminder might be helpful.
<bac> ok
<bac> rockstar: i'll send out an email to lp-dev
<rockstar> Last week I came into my review day and saw that 9 people were on a queue that had no OCR.
<bac> rockstar: and i've found people in the queue with no MP in +activereviews
<bac> it's anarchy!
<rockstar> bac, yeah, it's gotten a little messy.  Just a reminder of the social contracts would be helpful.
<bac> good idea.
<bac> any other topics?
<bac> ok, thanks for coming.  see you next week.
<thumper> nope
<thumper> thanks bac
<rockstar> Thanks bac!
<bac> hey thumper, i saw your comment about squeezeserver
<bac> is it currently not supported in lucid?
<thumper> bac, it has been renamed
<thumper> squeezeboxserver
<bac> so it's just an irritant?
<thumper> for now
<thumper> upgrade still in progress
<thumper> downloading 1345 of 1749
<bac> cool.  mine is on a gutsy server so i won't be upgrading it until lucid is released
 * thumper nods
<bac> hard to believe it's time for another LTS
<wgrant> bac: Gutsy? Gutsy has been unsupported for a year. Your server is horribly insecure.
<maxb> It could be worse.... there's a server running edgy at my office :-(
#launchpad-meeting 2010-03-25
<bac> wgrant: i misspoke.
<bac> bac@duckworth:~$ cat /etc/lsb-release
<bac> DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
<bac> DISTRIB_RELEASE=8.04
<bac> DISTRIB_CODENAME=hardy
<bac> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS"
<wgrant> Phew.
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<bigjools> me
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is matsubara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<matsubara> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<matsubara> chex, gary_poster, rockstar, bigjools, allenap: hi
<gary_poster> me, sorry
 * rockstar are here
<bigjools> I meed earlier
<matsubara> sorry bigjools, missed that
<matsubara> apologies from Translations. they're sprinting
<bigjools> easily missed I was premature :)
<chex> here
<allenap> me
<matsubara> hi sinzui
<sinzui> me
<matsubara> ok, everyone is here
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<matsubara>  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara>  * Proposed items
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to send email to stub about the dba report
<matsubara>  * sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<matsubara>  * matsubara to talk to gary_poster about bug 535071
<matsubara>    * Done.
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to send email to TLs about QA summaries
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 535071 in launchpad-foundations "Better error handling when librarian is offline" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535071
<matsubara>  * matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<matsubara>  * Ursinha to triage open lp-qa-tools bugs
<matsubara> I did some triage for oops-tools bugs, still some to look at
<Ursinha> matsubara: done the 1st and the 3rd, not the 2nd
<sinzui> matsubara: I have instructions from spm regarding how to change the window or schedule. I will try to land a change next week
<matsubara> [action] * Ursinha to send email to TLs about QA summaries
<MootBot> ACTION received:  * Ursinha to send email to TLs about QA summaries
<matsubara> [action]  * matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<MootBot> ACTION received:   * matsubara to triage open oops-tools bugs
<matsubara> thanks sinzui and Ursinha
<Ursinha> np matsubara
<matsubara> sinzui, should I add the action item again or can I consider it as done?
<sinzui> matsubara: yes. pease do
<matsubara> [action]  * sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<MootBot> ACTION received:   * sinzui to follow up in work with losas to set the increase threshold for the product release finder monitoring script
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<matsubara> We're still seeing https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1541O1653 which seems to be a regression of bug 527985
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527985 in launchpad-foundations "backing out of openid dance creates oops" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527985
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1541O1653
<matsubara> another one that seems to be a regression: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1545E465 --> bug 408738
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408738 in malone "OOPS when rendering bug activity" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408738
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<matsubara> and https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1544A949 regression of bug 508302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508302 in malone "NotImplementedError OOPS when reporting a bug" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508302
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<matsubara> sinzui, timeout retrieving vouchers: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1543EA744, I remember a bug about that but couldn't find it
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1543EA744
<matsubara> not sure if it's the same thing
<sinzui> matsubara: that was brad and myself
<sinzui> matsubara: ISD is still making changes to services we depend on
<matsubara> gary_poster, can you look at foundations one ^?
<sinzui> matsubara: at this time we are fortunate that only bac and myself are affected
<gary_poster> looking
<matsubara> allenap, can you take a look at the two bugs above?
 * allenap looks
<bac> sinzui: argh
<matsubara> sinzui, so should we just ignore those oopses for now? is there a bug that we could link to that oops report?
 * sinzui read the oopses and knows what bac is up to during his work hours
<sinzui> matsubara: I have not had a problem in the last two days.
<sinzui> matsubara: If it persists I will report a bug on the correct ISD project,
<bac> sinzui, matsubara : i see that user's project has had a voucher applied so perhaps it was spurious.  have we heard from him?
<matsubara> bac, nope, I caught that in the oops summary
<sinzui> matsubara: bac: this was a networking issue with saleforce. The reason you could not find the bug is that ISD retargeted the other bugs to their porjects
<allenap> matsubara: I'll file a new bug for OOPS-1545E465; the linked bug is not right.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<matsubara> sinzui, looks like the oops is triggerable by regular users as well
<sinzui> matsubara: anyone using +vouchers is a regular user
<allenap> matsubara: I'll talk to deryck about OOPS-1544A949.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<matsubara> [action] allenap to discuss with deryck about OOPS-1544A949 and file a bug for OOPS-1545E465.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<MootBot> ACTION received:  allenap to discuss with deryck about OOPS-1544A949 and file a bug for OOPS-1545E465.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1544A949
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<sinzui> matsubara:  the oops is not in launchpad, it is salesforce. We started talking to ISD last month when vouchers broke
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to fix linked bug for OOPS-1545E465
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to fix linked bug for OOPS-1545E465
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1545E465
<gary_poster> matsubara: I'll be discussing my oops with salgado and filing a new bug or something
<matsubara> allenap, gary_poster, thanks
<gary_poster> (s/or something/or reopening the old one)
<matsubara> [action] gary_poster to discuss OOPS-1541O1653 with salgado and file a bug for it.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  gary_poster to discuss OOPS-1541O1653 with salgado and file a bug for it.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1541O1653
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1541O1653
<matsubara> sinzui, in any case, lp should degrade gracefully when salesforce is offline or timing out
<sinzui> DUDE! I know that
<sinzui> This is not the channel to discuss ISD's changes to systems that affect launchpad and landscape
<matsubara> ok lebowski, I know that you know that. just making sure we're in the same page. I'm more interested in the changes that we can make to avoid the oops from happening (i.e. degrade gracefully)
<gary_poster> lol
<sinzui> I favor removing salesforce. It is not my decision. We can evaluate our dependencies on outsiders when we start NewCo
<matsubara> sinzui, rather than removing salesforce, can't we show a page saying that LP couldn't talk to salesforce while the duderino was browsing +vouchers? much like as your proposed solution to bug 267852?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267852 in launchpad-foundations "google search timeouts are not usable" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267852
<sinzui> matsubara: because it is an oops. there is nothing to show nor any action to take. I could not license Canonical projects for an hour
<bigjools> sigh - s/note/not/
<bigjools> oops
<matsubara> sinzui, makes sense then. I'll let you know if I see more of these OOPS and then you can escalate with ISD. thanks sinzui
<matsubara> we have 5 critical bugs
<matsubara> 3 fix committed, one in progress and one confirmed
<matsubara> the one confirmed is assigned to me and I'll take care of it today
<matsubara> the only broken script is flag-expired-memberships, which stub will take care of
<matsubara> thanks everyone, let's move on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
 * matsubara hands the mic to chex 
<chex> hello everyone
<chex> here is the LOSA report for this week:
<chex> - New ImportD server 'pear' has been setup this week and is processing jobs now.
<chex> - PQM is closing at 2300 UTC Friday for LP roll-out next week.
<chex> - SSO DB Migration project away from LP DB is delayed due to some issues, does anyone know
<chex>         where we are placed with this now?
<chex> - LP incidents of note: ; LP Cherry-picks:
<chex>         22-Mar: CP 9095 to lpnet*, & codehost
<chex>         24-Mar: CP 9097 to loganberry/checkwatches and 9098 to shipit*
<chex> and thats the report for this week, any comments/questions??
<matsubara> gary_poster, do you know about the SSO DB migration ^?
<gary_poster> chex, matsubara, yes
<gary_poster> chex, losas were cc'd on relevant emails
<gary_poster> summary: um...
<gary_poster> other Canonical openid apps that relied on launchpad team membership for privileges were going to break.
<gary_poster> We have to handle that.
<gary_poster> A plan is now in place to do so
<gary_poster> It will involve some DB changes that stub is working on, and some changes for ISD
<chex> gary_poster: ok, great, sounds good then, thanks
<gary_poster> We regard splitting the by no later than two weeks from now as an absolute necessity, because of various pressures such as HD space and other excitement, and hope to have it addressed sooner (beginning of week after next)
<matsubara> thanks gary_poster, chex
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
<matsubara> I'll email stub for the dba report
<matsubara> [action] matsubara to email stub asking the dba report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to email stub asking the dba report
<matsubara> [topic] QA Stats of the Week
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Stats of the Week
<matsubara> Soyuz (soyuz): 70
<matsubara> launchpadlib  (launchpadlib): 25
<matsubara> OOPS Tools (oops-tools): 21
<matsubara> Launchpad Developer Utilities (lp-dev-utils): 9
<matsubara> Launchpad Bugs (malone): 8
<matsubara> Launchpad Development Wiki Moin theme (launchpad-dev-moin-theme): 5
<matsubara> Launchpad Auto Build System (launchpad-buildd): 5
<matsubara> Launchpad Buildbot Configuration (lpbuildbot): 2
<matsubara> those are the launchpad projects with untriaged bugs (new state)
<bigjools> I'd like to point out that most of the soyuz ones are >2 years old
<matsubara> close them all or mark them as triage low :-)
<matsubara> triaged, I mean
<bigjools> I do so when I have time
<matsubara> thanks bigjools
<bigjools> I spend more time triaging new ones
<matsubara> cool
<matsubara> Also please take a look at https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/QATeam/OrphanedCommits/10.03-db-devel and https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/QATeam/OrphanedCommits/10.03-devel
<sinzui> bigjools: if you have ignored the issue for more than 6 months, it is 99% of the time low/triaged. the remaining 1% are security issues we should have fixed
<matsubara> those are the landings for the 10.03 cycle which are not tracked in the http://people.canonical.com/~lpqateam/test-plan-report-10.03.html burndown
<bigjools> sinzui: many of them are simply not bugs any more, in fact
<sinzui> bigjools: yep
 * sinzui closed 1/3 of the bugs as fixed that were supposed to go to launchpad-web
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<MootBot> New Topic:  * Proposed items
<matsubara> there's no new proposed items
<matsubara> anything else before I close?
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda  for the logs.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:46.
<bigjools> thanks matsubara
