#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-24
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: and also continue my work on introdeveloper docs
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: alas, i wont be able to attend UBZ due to work (probs getting leave,etc.) but ill do general motu stuff :)
<Unfrgiven> speaking of which, who do i need to see to get approved into UbuntuMembers on launchpad? I've applied almost a week back.
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: email a CC member, saying when you were approved at a CC meeting
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ok thanks.
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: you going to UBZ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> once I get everything sorted :)
<Unfrgiven> awesome... sounds like its going to be great
<ajmitch> hopefully :)
<Unfrgiven> ive been trying to do a rough usability review of ubuntu lately. just from a newbie-type perspective. while Breezy rocks, I found a few things lacking
<whiprush> hi Unfrgiven!
<Unfrgiven> for one, you can't easily play mp3s from a Samba share (without manually mounting it). this is in Rhythmbox and also Amarok.
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<whiprush> hi aj
<ajmitch> we should stick those intro docs on the fridge! ;)
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude! how are you? nice pics from the Gnome summit :)
<whiprush> hey!
<whiprush> yeah, the summit rocked
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: yeah good idea. i'll do that in the next day or so - i did a bit more clean up on the docs
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: what was the focus of the summit?
<whiprush> performance
<whiprush> mostly. I mean, people just show up to hack. But it seems like everyone was big on performance and memory usage
<tseng> hi whiprush
<whiprush> hi tseng
<LaserJock> I got a debdiff to fix #3252, should I change it's status?
<ajmitch> to pendingupload?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is that alright?
<LaserJock> that is what I would think
<ajmitch> I guess so
<ajmitch> I regularly look at the list of pendingupload bugs
<LaserJock> well, I didn't know if accepted would be more appropriate since I'm not a MOTU or anything
<LaserJock> since the debdiff needs to be sponsored to actually be uploaded
<ajmitch> set it as accepted if you wish, then :)
<ajmitch> as long as someone will set it & upload to dapper
<LaserJock> well, pending upload is fine as long as a MOTU is going to look at it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why did you need to add a dpatch build-dep?
<LaserJock> for some reason it was in debian/control but not debian/control.in
<ajmitch> right
<LaserJock> is there a way to look at your subscribed bugs from your launchpad homepage?
<sistpoty> gn8 all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> good day sir
<bddebian> Whassup?
<ajmitch> at work
<bddebian> Joy
<Kyral> Farking hell
<Kyral> I busted my glasses
<Amaranth> mine are running on superglue until next week
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Masking tape
<Kyral> so I have the classic busted glasses look ;P
<Kyral> thing is I'm up at school...
<Kyral> I'm debating running to the hardware store and buying some epoxy...
<minghua> I had my glasses hold up by masking tape for almost two months :-)
<minghua> my problem was a broken frame though
<Amaranth> my frame broke right where the top of the right wire connects to the middle
<Kyral> Mine snapped right where the bridge (Thing connecting the two halfs) connects to the oval part holding hte lenses
<Kyral> guy down the hall is trying to soder them back together
<Kyral> bbl
<minghua> Kyral: good luck
<schweeb_> howdy ogra
<ajmitch> schweeb_!
<ajmitch> long time no see
<schweeb_> indeed
<schweeb_> busy busy busy
<ajmitch> ready for some motu action?
<schweeb_> quite
<ajmitch> wonderful
<schweeb_> how's things on the motu front... haven't really been keeping track
<ajmitch> fairly hectic
<schweeb_> just been apt-get upgrading breezy all these months
<ajmitch> managed to get breezy out
<schweeb_> been busy making my millions myself :)
<ajmitch> so we're gearing up for dapper work now
<ajmitch> I've been busy scraping out a meagre living :)
<schweeb_> got my contract extended another 6 months, so I'll be gainfully employed a bit longer
<ajmitch> congrats
<schweeb_> I'm curious to see what the focus of dapper will be
<schweeb_> breezy is great, everything works on my laptop... some nice work by mjg59
<bddebian> Kyral: You still here?
<Amaranth> short or no MoM run
<Amaranth> mostly polish and bug fixes
<Amaranth> except for KDE, GNOME, X, and etc
<ajmitch> Amaranth: that's under discussion
<ajmitch> we've still got a fairly long list of features
<tseng> sabdfl says we will sync
<ajmitch> that will be discussed & developed
<schweeb_> tseng!
<tseng> sabdfl is.. sabdfl
<tseng> schweeb_: dud
<tseng> e
<Amaranth> ajmitch: it's pretty much decided that there will either be no automatic merging or that UVF will be in 4 or so weeks
<bddebian> tseng: Hey, do you know if jaldhar is close too?  Maybe we could try to get him together too?
<bddebian> I think he's in Jersey
<ajmitch> Amaranth: not decided, from what I can tell :)
<schweeb_> you guys all goin to UBZ?
<jaldhar> Jersey City to be precise
<tseng> bddebian: who?
<bddebian> jaldhar: :-)
<tseng> meh
<ajmitch> UVF will be earlier, but I'm thinking 4 weeks is *short*
<Kyral> bddebian, in and out
<tseng> if he wants to come here, great
<tseng> im not going to jersey
<Amaranth> i wish i could come
<Amaranth> but i am 1) broke and 2) in school
<ajmitch> schweeb_: I'll be there
<jaldhar> tseng: so where is here exactly?
<bddebian> Kyral: Did you look at mgp.spec?  prefix=/usr/X11R6
<schweeb_> UVF?
<Kyral> bddebian, nopre
<ajmitch> evening jaldhar
<bddebian> tseng: Afraid of Jersey are you? ;-P
<ajmitch> schweeb_: upstream version freeze
<jaldhar> hello ajmitch
<schweeb_> oh, yes
<Kyral> I'll fix it after my glasses are fixed mkay?
<tseng> jaldhar: we are both a bit otuside philly, in different directions
<tseng> i think a nice middle is KOP
<schweeb_> ajmitch: I planned on being there, but as it is, I think I'm on call those weeks
<ajmitch> Amaranth: 4 weeks would give maybe 1 week of dev time after UBZ for new upstream merging
<schweeb_> I may convince jorge to make a road trip out there or something for 2 days
<Kyral> bddebian, did you already upload the fix
<schweeb_> not sure if he's going at all
<ajmitch> Kyral: upload where? :)
<tseng> bddebian: jersey is scary, sure
<bddebian> Kyral: No, that doesn't totally fix it yet
<Kyral> bddebian, ah
<bddebian> xmkmf pukes with some weird stuff
<bddebian> tseng: Isn't that just Camden? ;-P
<Kyral> well I'll leave it with you. You know more about xmkmf than I do ;P
<bddebian> Kyral: No, I don't know shit about it quite honestly
<Kyral> Score! A guy down the hall fixed my glasses with soder and superglue!
<bddebian> solder
<bddebian> I think
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> brb..
<bddebian> Kyral: Ask ajmitch, he knows EVERYTHING :-)
* ajmitch looks for a /kick
<tseng> damn its bedtime already
* ajmitch wishes he could go off to sleep
<tseng> i set up my canonical laptop for real work now
<tseng> we'll see how long that lasts before i have to install dapper of the day
<ajmitch> 'real work'?
<ajmitch> my real work for it will have to be dapper crack
<tseng> all my packages and configs
<tseng> vs...
<tseng> firefox
<ajmitch> with extra things that I break on top
<tseng> which is about the only usable thing for me ootb
<schweeb_> I set up my laptop up for real work... vpnc and all
<tseng> Amaranth has a cool new smeg version
<tseng> he wants testers
<tseng> someone volunteer
<Amaranth> :)
<schweeb_> wtf is smeg
<tseng> simple menu editor for gnome
<Amaranth> the menu editor in breezy
<schweeb_> ah
<bddebian> A fungus I believe :-)
<tseng> yeah it means something nasty in europe
<tseng> or something
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are dapper repos open?
<tseng> bddebian: nope.
<Amaranth> it can be short for smegma or a swear word from red dwarf
<ajmitch> they were meant to open today
<schweeb_> sounded suspiciously close to smit from AIX
<ajmitch> but 'unexpected features' got in the way, I suspect
<tseng> sigh, aix is a swear word
<schweeb_> meh, I like it more than Solaris
<Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte-0.8beta2.tar.gz
<Amaranth> i changed the name
<schweeb_> by a long shot
<ajmitch> Amaranth: great
<Amaranth> extract it and run alacarte-0.8/src/alacarte
<whiprush> nice!
<ajmitch> smeg wasn't terribly professional, as funny as it might seem
<Amaranth> the setup.py is broken right now
<ajmitch> just a tarball? no bzr repository or similar? :)
<tseng> yes, alacarte smacks of professionalism
<Amaranth> ha
<ajmitch> tseng: a lot more than smeg
<tseng> ok im sleeping
<tseng> bye
<Amaranth> i was using gnome cvs but since my dialup is windows only i just do it all locally now
<ajmitch> good night
<whiprush> it beats smeg-ng
<Amaranth> night tseng
<whiprush> nite tea-seng
<tseng> har har miguel
<schweeb_> just call him whorehay
<bddebian> Gnight tseng
<schweeb_> I should probably sleep soon too... stupid early meetings
<Kyral> booyah
<Kyral> guy fixed my glasses
<Am|NickTaken> bed time
* ajmitch needs to get away from that #ubuntu timesink
<zenrox> ajmitch,  and look how many ppl are thare thay neet to be split to smaller groups of ppl
<zenrox> of maby 50 -60
<zenrox> not 200+
<ajmitch> zenrox: yes, and good luck achieving that
<zenrox> true
<ajmitch> well-meaning people who give bad info are annoying :)
<zenrox> but the idea has bine around a long time
<whiprush> ajmitch: first, I need you to add the marillat repository
<whiprush> ajmitch: then, install autopackage
<zenrox> put ppl in every channel and a bot with info
<ajmitch> whiprush: omg ok
<ajmitch> now what?
<crimsun> plz add dapper-backports
<ajmitch> grab a package from debian experimental & install?
<whiprush> nm, I'll just make a script for you, you just run it.
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> you want to vnc?
<crimsun> tehe
<whiprush> ./EasyAJ
<bddebian> Heh.  Gnight gang.
<alexr> Hi! Is this the right place to ask advice on modifying the Breezy install CD?
<Sepheebear> does reportbug work with launchpad?
<dholbach> hey, how are you?
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> Sepheebear: no, it doesn't
<dholbach> hey andrew
<Sepheebear> ah ok, i thought there was a config somewhere
<ajmitch> reportbug was written for debian & is just another package we inherited
<Sepheebear> but it does work with bugzilla
<Sepheebear> heard of any plans for a ubuntu tool like reportbug?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: but it is a nice package, it actually grabs the deps as well :)
<dholbach> Sepheebear: they are talking about xml rpc for malone, which will make stuff like that possible
<Sepheebear> hrm, sounds interesting
<Yagisan> Sepheebear: from experience, reportbug didn't send bugs to bugzilla
<Sepheebear> it didnt?
<ajmitch> no, it didn't and there's still an open bugreport about that
<Yagisan> Sepheebear: when i first switched to Ubuntu from Debian, I ran reportbug when I found bugs - they never appeared
<ajmitch> it wouldn't be hard to write a reportbug replacement
<ajmitch> for at least most of the functionality that people will use
<Sepheebear> report bug + query bugs what else is there for the typical user?
<Sepheebear> i love bug# 10315
<Sepheebear> dapper opens today no?
<ajmitch> when launchpad is ready for it
<ajmitch> which was meant to be yesterday :)
<Sepheebear> bugs in dapper/main will be in launchpad too?
<ajmitch> quite probably, although that's not certain yet
<Sepheebear> that'd be cool, my only real gripe with launchpad is that it isnt brown, but bugzilla forget it
<Yagisan> I'd say a bigger problem with launchpad is that it is not intuitive to search for existing bugs
<Sepheebear> well, that and it's blue. bleh!
<herve> morning
<Amaranth> night folks
<dholbach> hi herve
<herve> am I late for the coffee?
<dholbach> no, not really, still have here :)
<\sh> moins
<herve> ?
<herve> hello \sh
<Treenaks> \sh: your blog broke again
<jsgotangco> its puking a lot lately
<Treenaks> (is it reshuffling GUIDs? Is it restamping timestamps?)
<\sh> Treenaks: nothing...I didn't even touch the blog
<\sh> Treenaks: it's planet
<\sh> Treenaks: i didn't even touch my server
<\sh> Treenaks: the problem is known anyways...and planet seems to be broken somehow...
<jsgotangco> Treenaks, yeah and jdub says its not planet so stalemate :)
<\sh> jsgotangco: every planet implementation has problems with it :( but I'll think about changing to pybloxom if it has the features of s9y
<herve> you guys don't have a problem with the tab key in xchat?
<jsgotangco> herve, no
* \sh doesn't use xchat
* jsgotangco just tabbed your nick
* ajmitch hasn't used xchat for months
<Treenaks> \sh: jdub claims the problem is your blog
<jsgotangco> \sh, what happened to kgpg in kubuntu?
<ajmitch> herve: there are a couple of different tab completion settings
<herve> yes but nothing for setting the key
<Treenaks> \sh: does planet ubuntu get your Atom 1, Atom 0.3 or RSS feed?
<herve> yoohoo! I can't access the Zope 2.8.3 page with the security fix.
<Mortas> morning guys
<herve> hello
<dholbach> hey Mortas, hey herve :)
<_Tonio_> morning everyone
<dholbach> hi _Tonio_
<ajmitch> herve: you want to be in the pkg-zope team on launchpad?
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch! :)
<\sh> Treenaks: rss2 feed
<siretart> say, did I miss something important in the meeting yesterday?
<\sh> siretart: stefan is motu now
<ajmitch> siretart: yes
<siretart> \sh: w00t!
<dholbach> siretart: and mjg59 gave an interview :)
* siretart was not feeling well yesterday.. couldn't attend..
<ajmitch> siretart: we're depending on you to have good ideas for REVU2 at UBZ
<ajmitch> because we said that you'll be there to talk about it in a BOF :)
<dholbach> siretart: are you better now?
<siretart> ajmitch: I have a lot of good ideas for revu2, and will implement some in near future ;)
* ajmitch is feeling better now, after a beer ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: great :)
<herve> ajmitch, it would just be somewhat symbolic, I'm afraid I can't take commitments
<ajmitch> siretart: is the BOF on the wiki?
<ajmitch> herve: that's ok
<herve> hey siretart
<ajmitch> it just means you'll get the bugs that are assigned to it :)
<Treenaks> \sh: ask him to switch to Atom, it might work better?
<Treenaks> \sh: or something?
<siretart> dholbach: yes!
<siretart> brb (afk)
<ajmitch> either that or I set the debian pkg-zope mailing list as the team contact address
<dholbach> siretart: that's all that counts :)
<ajmitch> which might be a good idea
<herve> siretart, could you make me reviewer on REVU?
* dholbach hugs herve
* ajmitch will have to talk to madduck & others about that
<ivoks> ok
<\sh> Treenaks: is atom giving the full article, like rss2?
<herve> hey ivoks
<ivoks> scim/uim brakes couple of apps
<ivoks> we should fix that asap
<ajmitch> doko: if you're around.. https://launchpad.net/people/pkg-zope
<ivoks> herve: hi
<Treenaks> \sh: it's your blog/feed... :)
<ivoks> herve: what's up?
<\sh> Treenaks: as I said as well to jdub, it would be nice, to have an error log or trace log, what's happening when planet fetches the rss2 feed
<Treenaks> \sh: you can install a planet on your own local machine and try..
<herve> nice launchpad, I have links to edit a page but to learn I don't have permission
<ajmitch> heh
<herve> sorry, always whining :-)
<ajmitch> typical launchpad ;)
<herve> ivoks, vacation in Paris
<ivoks> herve: :)
<zakame> wow, bug day tomorrow! =)
<siretart> herve: sure, give me a sec
* siretart at work 
<herve> it said to send an encrypted mail but I needed the REVU public key
<siretart> herve: can you already login to revu?
<herve> yes, my email is hcauwelier@oursours.net
<siretart> great. mom
<ivoks> herve: no, it's herve@ubuntu.com :)
<siretart> herve: you should be reviewer now
<dholbach> yay
<dholbach> :)
<herve> thanks siretart
<herve> I'd prefer hcauwelier@ubuntu.com
<herve> otherwise people won't believe it's me :-)
<ivoks> herve: maybe it's that :)
<siretart> herve: ;) - I think revu2 should really work on launchpad logins
<ivoks> herve: 550 <hcauwelier@ubuntu.com>:
<herve> yes, an unified directory is not a bad idea
<herve> ivoks, yes I don't have any
<siretart> ajmitch: I don't have a BoF for revu2 yet on the wiki, because there will be probably several BoFs for revu, because I want to solve several problems
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> we need to get BOFs registered ASAP for scheduling
<siretart> ajmitch: will work on it today or tomorrow, depending on how things go here at work
<ajmitch> great :)
<siretart> ajmitch: oooh. ok, I will then definitly do that tonight. at any cost. no problem
<ajmitch> hmm
<ivoks> ubz :)
<ajmitch> sabdfl is disagreeing with our policy of -0ubuntu1 for new packages
<ivoks> have a good time guys :)
<\sh> ajmitch: where?
<ajmitch> #u-devel
<ajmitch> he made the change on DeveloperResources this morning
<herve> well, if he has a better idea...
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> "in sabdfl we trust"
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I still feel free to disagree with him ;)
* ajmitch is sure he'd hate to be surrounded by 'yes men' when working on ubuntu
<herve> I like the idea of easily knowing which packages are not yet in ubuntu
<\sh> bah
<\sh> bsht
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> \sh: what are your thoughts on it?
<\sh> ajmitch: I say bullseggs
<ajmitch> mm
* ajmitch opened up a nice can of worms here ;)
<herve> I thought worms are found in the ground :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<TMM> is dapper open yet?
<TMM> :)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> go back to sleep :P
<TMM> ok
<TMM> ;)
<TMM> can we do bugfixes already? I read some stuff on motuwannabe, and I felt it applied to me
<TMM> :)
<herve> we won't prevent you but you can't upload!
<TMM> upload fixes to revu then?
<ajmitch> sure
<TMM> what is the normal process for these things then? I'm not motu, but I can upload to revu, say I fix a package with unmet deps do I upload it to revu? or just put it on the wiki?
<dholbach_> yeah, or if you fix a bug, attach a debdiff to the bug
<herve> and one of the motu will review it and upload for you
<herve> unless it has changed since I left :-)
<ajmitch> I think we'll be using revu less for changes to packages, and more for reviewing new packages
<TMM> ok
<ajmitch> especially if we have transitions & file them as malone bugs
<TMM> so, I find a package with that magic command on UniverseUnmetDeps
<TMM> I fix it, and make a bug in malone, attachine the debdiff
<TMM> ?
<ajmitch> well, universeunmetdeps should get cleaned up now that breezy is released, and we can do syncs again
<ajmitch> (once dapper opens, real soon now) :)
<TMM> so, I do nothing... ? :)
<dholbach_> yeah
<dholbach_> ajmitch: yeah
<dholbach_> TMM: no
<ajmitch> the packages that were left on UniverseUnmetDeps were quite broken :)
<dholbach_> :)
<herve> opening a bug just for uploading may be cubersome when you have a motu under your hand
<ajmitch> dholbach_: we'll talk about this use of malone at the MOTU meeting :)
<TMM> there is still a bunch of packages shown with that magic command
<ajmitch> herve: but opening a bug when the wiki page would be created is useful
<TMM> fine, I'll have to wait a bit then
<TMM> :'(
<herve> I prefer bugs to maintaining a wiki page anyway
<TMM> I'll NEVER be motu at this rate ;)
<herve> but not opening a bug just for asking an upload
<ajmitch> I *hateses* the wiki for those sorts of tasks :)
<herve> if the bug already exists, ok
<ajmitch> decent bug searches are essential for replacing the wiki though
<dholbach> TMM: there is always bug triage, really :)
<TMM> ow yeah, and who is this man we are supposed to make happy?
<TMM> http://gplan.info/blog/mvo.png
<TMM> :)
<ajmitch> mvo!
<herve> I thought malone was ready :-)
<ajmitch> we really need to make this man happy : http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/2005/face-of-motu.png
<herve> itou :-)
<TMM> ajmitch, he looks pretty happy already
<ajmitch> he's a happy guy by nature, but fixing stuff makes him extra-happy
<ajmitch> and we want him to be as happy as possible
<TMM> dholbach, hey, I was already at that! :)
<herve> berhappy :-)
<jsgotangco> what happens when he's not happy
<TMM> ajmitch, what? does he do tricks then?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: then we have to work harder
<ajmitch> TMM: no..
<TMM> dholbach, but, like I said, the bugs in malone are all pretty good, and apparently, I can't fix anything yet :)
<ajmitch> TMM: you can fix plenty
<ajmitch> TMM: we just can't upload yet
<dholbach> TMM: fix yes, upload later :)
<TMM> ok then
<ajmitch> dholbach: shall we try & make that fellow happy? ;)
<TMM> I'm struggeling with that usplash doesn't work on s3 virge now
<TMM> pretty funny
<TMM> well... interesting ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: jhehe :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: we can try & make him happy with beer at UBZ ;)
<dholbach> :)
<herve> I hope you're not buying him!
<ajmitch> herve: will you be at UBZ at all?
<herve> nope
<ajmitch> a shame
<ajmitch> it would have been good to meet
<herve> maybe next time
<ajmitch> seems that madduck might be there
<ajmitch> so I think I'll talk to him about zope :)
<ajmitch> (and doko, of course)
<TMM> ajmitch, talk to him about django, he'll love that
<ajmitch> :P
* TMM is in love with django
<TMM> was the goal 'every app in universe has a .desktop' reached? or is that going to go on for dapper?
<TMM> err
<TMM> ongoing
<TMM> :)
<ajmitch> ongoing
<Treenaks> TMM: it's always ongoing
<ajmitch> and we have to work out a way to get translations, etc
<TMM> hmm, yeah
<TMM> perhaps some cdbs scripts for desktop files, and some rosetta integration would be in order
<ajmitch> what would you do with cdbs?
<ajmitch> considering that the majority of packages that need .desktop files wouldn't use cdbs
<TMM> have it fetch rosetta translations during build?
<ajmitch> ewww
<ajmitch> nasty
* ajmitch would hate any build relying on something external like that
<TMM> meh, there are a bunch of packages that fetch the source.tar.gz from upstream in rules
<TMM> and I hate that a lot more
<ajmitch> which is nasty enough
<Mithrandir> TMM: eh, no?  They have a rule which _can_ do that.
<Mithrandir> TMM: you can't rely on network access in the build process.
<Mithrandir> it a) doesn't work and b) is a blatant violation of everything sane.
<ajmitch> I often build on my laptop, disconnected from the world
<TMM> Mithrandir, I present to you : kpvnc
<TMM> Mithrandir, kvpnc
<TMM> Mithrandir, :)
<ajmitch> it's just asking for breakage
<Mithrandir> TMM: what about that?
<Mithrandir> TMM: it has a get-orig-source which is never called by the build-process, so?
<TMM> Mithrandir, isn't that where the upstream sources come from?
<ajmitch> TMM: upstream sources are the orig.tar.gz on the archive
<ajmitch> which we build from
<Mithrandir> TMM: it's _never called as part of the build process_.  run debuild and grep the log for wget.
<Mithrandir> why the _fuck_ does it depend on wget?
<TMM> Mithrandir, it's called during apt-get source then?
<Mithrandir> no
<TMM> Mithrandir, because of the get-orig-source?
<ajmitch> and get-orig-source was used only to remove debian/ from the upstream tarball according to the changelog
<TMM> Mithrandir, ok... when IS it called then, because that is what it does to the orig.tar.gz
<TMM> It looks like I just misunderstand this whole deal :)
<TMM> sorry about that
<Mithrandir> TMM: *sigh*, it's never called as part of the build process and so has no business being in the build-depends.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: that change was made by an ubuntu person, too
<ajmitch> (non-maintainer)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: loic@dev.erodia.net, whoever that is, it appears.
<herve> pef?
<ajmitch> pef
<TMM> Mithrandir, would you mind explaining to me what it does do then? :) I'm ignorant apparently :) sorry
<Mithrandir> TMM: you can have a erase-the-world rule which does rm -rf / too, but unless some other rule depends on it, it won't be called.
<Mithrandir> TMM: the debian/rules file is a program.  It's called with an argument, usually "binary".  If you lot hadn't used cdbs it would have been a lot simpler to see what's happening. :-P
<Mithrandir> TMM: basically, make just traverses the dependency tree and kicks off the rules which it needs for "binary" to be fulfilled.
<Mithrandir> TMM: get-orig-source is not part of that tree, so it's never called.
<TMM> Mithrandir, ok... so, what is it doing there?
<TMM> Mithrandir, just for completeness?
<Mithrandir> TMM: it's a convenience target, so you can run debian/rules get-orig-source by hand.
<TMM> Mithrandir, ok, thanks, that explained a lot :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: can you please hit pef over the head with something appropriate next time you see him and get him to nuke that wget build-dependency and tell him why?
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: certainly
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: thanks.
<TMM> coooooool!!! :) I was useful for something ;)
<TMM> I think that build-dep on wget got me a bit confused
<TMM> it made it seem like it used it
<Mithrandir> yeah, that build-dep is totally bogus
<ajmitch> at least he listed that change in the changelog, so we know who to blame
<TMM> what if we added a convenience target to get translations from rosetta?
<TMM> I think rosetta would be the way to go, the motus can never expect translators in all languages to submit patches to the .desktop files
<Mithrandir> TMM: that would be fine, but those are supposed to be grabbed from langpacks, so it doesn't make that much sense.
<Mithrandir> TMM: since translations are generally stripped from the package as part of the build process
<TMM> aren't the translations for .desktop entries supposed to go in the .desktop file with Name[isocode
<TMM> ] 
<TMM> ?
<Mithrandir> true, I was thinking for .po files.
<TMM> I was thinking .desktop :)
<TMM> I think it would need to be automated in some way... the .po files as well
<Mithrandir> anyway, I was just told we don't strip universe translations, so having that convenience target there can make sense for universe packages.
<TMM> however, I think that the target would have to be run on the ubuntu build farm, otherwise they'd never end up in the distro...
<TMM> shall I perhaps spec something like this on the wiki?
<Mithrandir> the buildds don't have access to the 'net.
<TMM> that makes sense actually :)
<TMM> how would a rosetta integration work then?
<Mithrandir> for main, we have the langpacks
<TMM> Mithrandir, does that work for .desktop entries as well?
<Mithrandir> unsure
<TMM> Mithrandir, because, all the .desktop entries in /usr/share/applications have all the translations in them
<Mithrandir> it might be seb128-o-rama which does that.
<TMM> :)
<TMM> sounds cool, what is it? :)
<ajmitch> a magical beast that uploads at an incredible rate
<herve> now I know where dholbach learnt that!
<TMM> ajmitch, ah....
* TMM looks puzzled
<TMM> Mithrandir, do you think we could use a similair system for universe?
<Mithrandir> TMM: it would make for insanely huge langpacks
<TMM> Mithrandir, yeah, but for .desktop files then? I think that for universe it is a good idea to just include upstream .po files
<slomo> and it would make useless langpacks... nobody has more than maybe 10% of universe installed but would have ALL translations
<TMM> I didn't mean that
<TMM> I was referring to that sen128-o-rama thing
<Mithrandir> TMM: you might want to ask on #rosetta, I'd imagine.
<TMM> Mithrandir, ok
<TMM> Mithrandir, there's no such thing :)
<Mithrandir> heh, ok.
<Mithrandir> #launchpad, then?
<TMM> I suppose, there is SOME way of communication between the build process and rosetta. if we 'template' the .desktop files, and create a dh_ script and cdbs stuff for it, I suppose they could be generated off off the translations in rosetta
<TMM> there'd need to be a standardised way to do that though
<ivoks> quote " it's become something of a joke that the only things you can't avoid in life are death, taxes and Ubuntu reviews"
<slomo> hehe
<ajmitch> hehe
<slomo> we should create some kind of review-counter for the next release ;)
<ajmitch> sounds good ;)
<ajmitch> put it on the fridge..
<TMM> I haven't read one negative review on breezy yet!
<TMM> I did read some semi-negative reviews of hoary :)
<TMM> it looks like breezy is being liked a lot :)
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> a lot of hard work went into breezy
<TMM> it payed off
<slomo> there were only reviews where the reviewer didn't like brown ;)
<TMM> between RC and release my hibernation even got fixed :)
<TMM> and I couldn't get it to work manually :P
<TMM> great stuff
<\sh> hmm...bob young left redhat
<\sh> wow
<TMM> he's going to join canonical ;)
<TMM> j/k
<Lathiat> really or your jok... ok. :)
<TMM> that would have been too funny :)
<Lathiat> according to wikipedia he left in 1999?
<\sh> Lathiat: no...he was in the board of redhat...he left the chairman position of redhat in 99...
<\sh> s/in/on/
<\sh> Lathiat: szulik took over...and now bob is joining lulu.com
<Lathiat> a9
<Lathiat> \sh: ah ok
<\sh> but it would be a cool idea if he would join canonical...;)
<sivang> \sh: what has he steered in RedHat ?
<sivang> \sh: (he can also join rpath ;-) )
<\sh> sivang: He built up redhat :)
<\sh> sivang: Robert 'Bob'  Young
<sivang> eh ;-) silly me
<pef> hello
<herve> hey pef
<pef> motu meeting is at 20:00 UTc, right ?
<pef> herve: hello herv
<Lathiat> one thing i absolutely hate about svn, when you first start it
<Lathiat> you cant kill it for a bit
<ajmitch> night all, I hope I get up in time for MOTU meeting ;)
<pef> ajmitch: good night
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart> hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<koke> is the launchpad server down, or it's just me?
<pef> koke: works for me
<koke> hmm, konqueror says it can't connect, but firefox works
<bddebian> apt-get remove konqueror ;-P
<herve> --purge :-)
<bddebian> Heya herve
<Lathiat> haha
<herve> yes, I'm still here!
<Mithrandir> pef: please remove the wget build-dependency in kvpnc.  It's bogus.
<pef> Mithrandir: I use it for get-orig-source target
<Mithrandir> pef: it's not a build-dependency.  It's never called as part of the build-process.
<herve> for updating the package to a new upstream release, right?
<Mithrandir> yes, and that's not done by the buildds as part of the build process.
<pef> no
<pef> to clean the dirty upstream package
<pef> home made debian layout, etc
<Mithrandir> it's still not called by the build process
<pef> Mithrandir: so everything not needed by buildds should not be a Build-Depends ?
<siretart> pef: yes. In fact Build-Depends is for the buildds
<Mithrandir> pef: correct.
<pef> ok, should I correct this now, or wait for new upstream release, or bug fix to do this minor change to the package ?
<Mithrandir> it's not a hurry, just fix it with your next upload.
<pef> Mithrandir: added to my todolist, thanks for the info
<Mithrandir> or if you're not doing a new upload in a long time, just upload a new revision when dapper opens or so.
<Mithrandir> it's mainly a cosmetic issue
<herve> I too like my (build-)depends to be as small as needed
<herve> ok I read the tutorial, now I dream of bzr :-)
<Nafallo> herve: :-)
<herve> it seems like it does more features with less commands
<\sh> http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=200
<herve> woohoo! trac+bzr
<Lathiat> heh
<tseng> herve: REALLY?
<tseng> i just started using trac with svn
<tseng> it rocks
<Lathiat> yeh?
<herve> I lost the link
<Lathiat> whats it good at
<herve> I found it on the bzr wiki
<tseng> Lathiat: it has a simple wiki, bugtracker, and viewsvn all in one
<herve> ha
<herve> http://artiemestieri.tn.it/~lele/projects/trac+darcs
<Lathiat> tseng: ah cool
<tseng> Lathiat: its good for managing medium sized projects
<tseng> too small for standalone wiki/bugzilla
<tseng> too big to have nothing
<herve> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/VersioningSystemBackend
<tseng> the darcs backend works for bzr?
<herve> wohoo! my day is over
<herve> see you later
<tseng> erm, bye
* Nafallo downloads breezy :-)
<Nafallo> tseng: no, for trac. bzr also works as backend for trac :-).
<tseng> hm
<tseng> ajmitch: so is there a good reason i should use bzr over svn?
<tseng> ajmitch: i dont need any local control/branching in this case
<tseng> hm maybe i do
<tseng> looks like i have 14k lines of code now
<siretart> trac+bzr?!
<Nafallo> siretart: according to some page I found on the bzr wiki, yes :-)
<siretart> w00t. that could be useful for revu2 ;)
<Nafallo> indeed :-)
<Nafallo> tailor seems promissing also ;-)
<tseng> i wonder if j^ will give us new NM love
<spayne> hi di hi
<tseng> uh
<spayne> hi tseng
<spayne> glad you are happy to see me :)
<spayne> tseng: what have i done now?
<tseng> made silly noises in at least 3 channels simultaneously
<spayne> tseng: silly noises?
<spayne> just a vareity of greetings
<tseng> sigh
<spayne> i could comment that is a silly noise :)
<bddebian> Heya spayne
<spayne> hey bddebian
<spayne> how's it going?
<bddebian> Poorly, you?
<spayne> not too bad, what's up?
<bddebian> Just RL job sucks ass :-(
<Lathiat> quit, and sit in town with a big sign and dredded clothes
<Lathiat> Ubuntu MOTU
<Lathiat> Please give generously!
<Lathiat> and a hat for all the 5 cent pieces
<Lathiat> and then see what your landlord says when you pay yoru rent in a bucket of 5 cent pieces
<dholbach> Lathiat: you're an incredibly good carreer advisor
<Lathiat> i was thinking of taking it up as a career
<bddebian> Lathiat: :-)
<bddebian> Lathiat: Somehow my wife and kids probably wouldn't enjoy living on the street with me and my laptop. ;-P
<Lathiat> heh
<crimsun> put them in a big Ubuntu box
<crimsun> they won't mind!
<Lathiat> haha
<ogra> probably jdub has a spare box from a fridge for you to live in :)
<bddebian> Heh
<spayne> NEWS JUST IN: Fridge Mainia has hit Ubuntu Land!
<LaserJock> hi all
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<LaserJock> karma up to 5000 yet? ;-)
<bddebian> Shiite, not even close.  RL work is kicking my arse :'-(
<LaserJock> so there is going to be karma for uploads right?
<LaserJock> RL?
<Nafallo> reallife
<LaserJock> Nafallo: thanks
<\sh> re
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<bddebian> \sh doesn't love me anymore.. :'-(   :-)
<\sh> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> we all love you bddebian! *cough* ya right
* \sh is not feeling good...:( too much RL work and I feel like getting a cold...which I don't need :(
<LaserJock> \sh: me too, I wonder if it could be a post-Breezy cold ;-)
<\sh> LaserJock: well..the weather changed here a lot since the last weekend :(
<LaserJock> \sh: well I always get colds when I get stressed. Like finals, oral comprehensives, etc.
<chris_> \sh: time to look on klibido? :|
<bddebian> \sh: I know that feeling :-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: Thanks buddy :-)
<\sh> chris_: sorry no...I had too much of stress at office
<chris_> \sh: no problem.. the pr0n i can download with broken menues, too :PPP
<LaserJock> bddebian: I heard that you will be able to get karma for uploads. Is that true?
<\sh> btw...benc will attend motu meeting today....because of the question about kernels in universe
<siretart> puh. finally at home
<siretart> these jtag server are really scary :/
<ivoks> \sh: we shouldn't provide kernels in universe
<ivoks> maybe source, but not images...
<ogra> ivoks, we have to cover certain cases where you need to patch the kernel
<\sh> ivoks: the issue was raised...and I'm totally against it...that's why we will discuss the need and if we should at all
<ivoks> ogra: ?
<slomo_> ogra: for example?
<ivoks> ogra: kernel source is in main
<ivoks> we can provide patches, that's ok
<ivoks> but not image...
<ivoks> imho
<ogra> there were several attempts of mucicians that tried to form a musician team on ubuntu...
<ivoks> great
<ivoks> i don't see why we need to provide kernel for that...
<ogra> they struggled every time because its not possible without some low latency patches that need to go in the kernel
<\sh> ogra: patches != complete other kernel sources
<ivoks> eh, we should provide that patch
<ogra> you cant use an unpatched kernel for several things there
<Loiosh> Oh yeah, the realtime music stuff.
<ivoks> ogra: i understand that...
<ivoks> ogra: but we should provide that patch, only that patch
<ogra> the offer fabbione and mdz made back then was to have a kernel image with the patches in universe...
<ivoks> ogra: test it with main's source and put a wiki how to compile your own kernel
<ogra> nope, we shouldnt... either we provide the kernel package or we dont, but we shouldnt force musicians to be hackers ;)
<ivoks> ogra: that's not hacking
<ivoks> there are easy to use tools
<ogra> its handling source code using compilers etc
<ivoks> ogra: it's make-kpkg and leaving it to do everything alone
<\sh> it's one of the same questions of "what to support in dapper" the image with modules...or the source with different options to compile
<ogra> give them something that works or give them nothing... dont provide half working solutions that only generate a lot of support
<ivoks> i agree
<ogra> if we decide against kernels in universe, thats fine...
<slomo_> ogra: will the main kernel guys maintain it?
<ivoks> but supporting that kernel.. do we have someone with kernel skills?
<ogra> they can then set up their own repo and have the packages there... even if sabdfl wnt be happy with that
<ogra> slomo_, nope...
<ogra> who says we need to support it ?
<ivoks> lol
<ogra> having a package that works is enough
<ivoks> ok
<Nafallo> meeting already started? :-)
<ogra> universe is unsupported...
<\sh> works as in build ok, or works as in rock solid
<ogra> we can always use that excuse ;)
<ivoks> ogra: what about security
<Nafallo> ...but we want universe to be community-supported ;-)
<ivoks> but ok, let's say we create kernel image
<slomo_> ogra: ok, then we can do it probably... when it's only main kernel + low-latency stuff i can do some work for it
<ivoks> we should name that package different then linux-image-...
<ogra> \sh, works as in doesnt lock your box and doesnt wipe your HD (at least not without saying so before ;) )
<ivoks> slomo_: i would be interested in that, too
<\sh> ogra: so..what about a "totally-lack-of-support-from-everywhere-but-motu-build" repos?
<ogra> linux-image-low-latency-audio-enhanced-but-we-dont-support-it_2.6.12-37-ubuntu109.deb :)
<slomo_> ogra: but i don't want to maintain a too big patchset from the main kernel... so only low-latency and maybe other really small stuff
* Loiosh likes that name =)
<ivoks> no :)
<ivoks> universe-linux-image
<ogra> slomo_, i didnt say *we* should do it
<\sh> ogra: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper black-hole
<slomo_> \sh: good idea ;)
<siretart> hrhr
<ogra> i'm just not opposing the idea if someone comes and wants such a package in universe... and i think we should be open for it
* siretart too
* siretart wants to build a kernel image with linux vserver patch
<ivoks> ok
<slomo_> ogra: ok, but i would help with it when it's only low-latency ;) maybe with ivoks help ;)
<ogra> exactly...
<siretart> didn't have enough time to build and test it for breezy, though
<ogra> and probably someone wants a XEN kernel in universe
<ivoks> ok
<slomo_> siretart: hm, but that would be a second kernel image in universe
<Mithrandir> ogra: Xen might very well go into main.
<ivoks> you convinced me
<ogra> Mithrandir, *might*
<slomo_> ogra: yes, i know of at least 3 people who want XEN kernels ;)
<ivoks> it should go in main :/
<Mithrandir> ogra: it was a medium/low-priorite release goal for breezy.
<siretart> slomo_: which is the first one?
<ogra> Mithrandir, i know....
<ivoks> slomo_: count me in
<slomo_> siretart: low-latency audio stuff
<siretart> slomo_: *patsch*.. sure..
<ogra> Mithrandir, but i also know how short pre UVF time is for dapper :)
<\sh> ogra: where is the time table for dapper? ,-)
<ogra> there is none yet... but it looks like we have ~ 1 month less than in breezy...
<ivoks> yup...
<\sh> bah...these tortellinis were salty
* siretart lunch
<ivoks> yay! we got 3th mobile network :)
* ogra tv
<ivoks> prices are going down 60% :)
<eruin> ivoks, mobile network or mobile operator?
<eruin> we have a gazillion operators but only two networks, so prices suck. :O
<slomo_> siretart: will sistpoty be online later? i want to ask him if we want to found a MOTUStrangeLanguages team or something similar ;) he has done good work with the haskell stuff and some scheme stuff so maybe this would be of interest for him
<ivoks> eruin: both...
<ivoks> eruin: t-com, vip (a1) and tele2
<eruin> 0.1/min is insane
<ivoks> i hate t-com
<ivoks> L?
<eruin> pounds
<eruin> I don't know the dollar rate anymore... it's in freefall
<ivoks> here tele2 offers 0.05euros/min
<eruin> gah. you bastards
<ivoks> :>
<ivoks> vip offers 0.15euros/min
<ivoks> and t-com arround 0.14e/min
<ivoks> so, you can see how we all love tele2 :)
<eruin> hehe
<eruin> watch out
<eruin> it might just be a trick to get everybody to switch
<eruin> tele2 did that here
<ivoks> they guarantee this prices forever
<ivoks> eruin: really? what did they do?
<eruin> they told us their prices would stay at the insanely low introduction price, then upped them due to "competing price levels and financial difficulty at their current price"
<ivoks> hehe classic
<eruin> plus, they have annoying salespeople everywhere in the streets ;)
<ivoks> lol sounds like 24sata newspaper here :)
<ivoks> these guys are everywhere
<ivoks> even on ski tracks :)
<eruin> annoying isn't it ;p
<eruin> I've also got two amnesty-people on both ends of my street
<ivoks> yup
<eruin> they ask me to join/pay every day
<ivoks> :>
<eruin> trying to make me feel like a bastard when I decline
<eruin> rah.
<siretart> slomo_: hrhr. sounds great :)
<siretart> slomo_: and no sorry, I haven't heard from him since some time
<slomo_> siretart: ok ;) i'll wait for him :P
<slomo_> siretart: hmm, and i hate math exercises where one has to prove something and it isn't clear what can be used to prove it and what not ;)
<siretart> slomo_: ooh. unclear preconditions.. thats annoying ;)
<slomo_> siretart: well, i know at least one possible way to prove every single exercise... but the problem is that it's the first paper with exercises and we didn't do anything yet :/ hm, let's wait until next wednesday... i have time until then
<siretart> slomo_: thats not too unusual. normaly the prof should say something to that
<slomo_> siretart: normally... but this guy is strange. he talks too slow and talks hours about trivial things... well, let's see :)
<ivoks> see you at 22:00UTC
<ivoks> bye
<bddebian3> What's at 22:00 this time?
<slomo_> siretart: but can you act for me in the meeting? i'm so tired and must be in the train tomorrow at 6:30 :( just tell them that i would help with some universe kernel stuff if at least someone else works with me... i don't have anything useful to say for the other topics except that i've already started doing merges (mono stuff) and that we really have to get some kind of stricter UVF for dapper but maybe a few weeks after the main-UVF to r
<slomo_> espond to any changes in main
<slomo_> bddebian3: motu meeting... 20:00 UTC, 22:00 CEST ;)
<bddebian3> :-)
<siretart> slomo_: ok, will do
<siretart> slomo_: what policy would you suggest for kernel images in dapper/universe?
<slomo_> siretart: no support and big warning message when installing them ;) and only kernel images for stuff that can't be integrated in the main kernel because it changes general behaviour like the XEN or low-latency or vserver stuff
<siretart> okay
<slomo_> and changes something that isn't useful or even bad for the masses and only useful in special cases ;)
<siretart> would that be then a fork of the linux-source sourcepackage? or 'just' some additional patches to the linux-source?
<crimsun> I still think that's a very bad idea
<crimsun> we can't possibly support those kernels
<slomo_> siretart: linux-source + patches... and must be uptodate with the main kernel for release...
<siretart> slomo_: this means extra merging work
<siretart> slomo_: I think a close collaboration with ubuntu-kernel would be a requirement, then
<siretart> crimsun: true.
<siretart> crimsun: the thing is: I really want to have some linux-vserver kernels. I know there are some linux-lowlatency folks who definitly need those kernels
<slomo_> siretart: yes... that would be good anyway ;)
<crimsun> I'm willing to help with patches, but full-blown kernels? That's a nightmare.
<siretart> crimsun: for me I see 2 possibilities: uploading these kernel-images to universe, or keep them in some 'private' repositories, separated from universe
<\sh> we won't get any support from the kernel guys
<slomo_> \sh: why?
<siretart> slomo_: they are already nearly overloaded, I think
<\sh> but this is for the meeting..benc will attend and you can read quotes of fabbione on irclogs in ubuntu-kernel
<crimsun> way past overloaded
<Lathiat> slomo_: because they dont have time to chase after our kernels, tey have enough to worry about
<Lathiat> eh repeat++
<siretart> \sh: yes. I understand this. But beeing informed about problems/patches in the 'main' kernel would be really helpful with this task ;)
<slomo_> siretart: hmm... i'll get a coffee and try to stay awake then ;)
<siretart> slomo_: if you need to get up this early.. uuuh
<crimsun> the only thing I can conceivably say would be anything close to manageable would be something akin to Debian's old kernel-patch-foo stuff
<\sh> siretart: the problems of the "main" kernel are known from bugzilla/malone...but this is not the issue...the issue is, that we play with "unknown" patches etc. and we have to bugfix them
<slomo_> siretart: i have 5 free hours tomorrow... i can sleep ;)
<siretart> \sh: yepp. I see the problem
<\sh> siretart: or do you have the possibilty to test something, e.g. without having the hardware
<\sh> siretart: if you say, that you build a whatever support in main-kernel then you are responsible...but if community user X tells us, he needs this and that for that and this, so he should do it, but we shouldn't do it
<\sh> siretart: because we don't know
<crimsun> (and not only do you take on the main kernel's bug matrix but you exponentially increase it with each additional 'universe' patch)
<siretart> \sh: this would mean private repositories then. okay, I can live with that
<\sh> what we can provide are packages with patches for module-assistent but I'm not willing to maintain patchlevels I can't test
<crimsun> right, I can see patches being a possibility
<crimsun> at least then the burden is still on the user
<\sh> siretart: as I wrote in one of the mails about the kernel support thread...sysadmins will roll out their own compiled kernels anyways..
<\sh> siretart: when and if they need special drivers e.g. for EMC
<siretart> module-assistant is only applicable to loadable kernel modules, not to stuff like audio-lowlatency or linux-vserser
<\sh> siretart: which is quite unsupported..either by emc (only redhat has EMC supported drivers in it, and only in the delivered kernel)
<crimsun> siretart: we still have the kernel-patch-foo (well, I think linux-patch-foo will be better)
<siretart> crimsun: perhaps we can provide some infrastructure for faciliating baking kernels. and document that
<\sh> siretart: but e.g. I know EMC drivers are working nicely in stock woody kernels ;)
<crimsun> siretart: that sounds like a plan
<siretart> so we would 'only' need to support the infrastructure ;)
<\sh> siretart: this is at least a good idea...:)
<siretart> as far as I understood, the linux-images are not built by kernel-package, but normal 'dpkg-buildpackage', right?
<siretart> but anyway, thats details. need to go back speccing revu2..
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> hurry up...35 mins left ;)
<slomo_> siretart: hm, thought about it again... better to go sleeping now ;) but whatever you decide, i would help with the kernel stuff...
<slomo_> so gn8 everybody :)
<crimsun> cya slomo_
<\sh> slomo_: sleep well :)
<siretart> slomo_: great! :) - sleep well, cu tomorrow
<ajmitch> morning all
<dholbach> hi andrew
* ajmitch managed to wake up in time ;)
* Lathiat attempts to implement solitaire crypto in C with linked lists
<Lathiat> i think it might be easy to just copy data about in an array
<siretart> hey ajmitch! :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: oh good, so I don't have to ring you ;)
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> wouldnt have worked anyway
<Lathiat> my phones dead to the world
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<ajmitch> haha
<Lathiat> charger doesn't charge :(
<Lathiat> i was gonna take it in for service today
<Lathiat> but at this rate it'l be friday :)
* ajmitch doesn't feel charged today
<ajmitch> ~4 hours sleep is not enough
* dholbach comforts poor ajmitch 
<dholbach> ajmitch: who wrote the UbuntuBugDay page with you last time?
<dholbach> ajmitch: robitaille?
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> hrm, i added some "tasks" for it, but i have no idea, how to put the text above it in such a nice way
* ajmitch is not nearly as poetic as robitaille
<ajmitch> and badger colony..?
<ajmitch> you'd have to change the references to making breezy good
<ajmitch> "this coming Thursday"...
<ajmitch> " you all on Saturday."...
<ajmitch> :D
<Lathiat> should include malone tasks too
<dholbach> it's a wiki... please help out :)
<siretart> what is a group of ducks (drakes) called? colonys?
<ajmitch> tasty ;)
<bddebian3> gaggle isn't it?  Or is that just geese?
<ajmitch> gaggle of geese
<ajmitch> duck:  brace, flock, gaggle, paddling, team, raft, badling, bunch, waddling
<\sh> duck: food
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> http://dictionary.reference.com/writing/styleguide/animal.html
<LaserJock> a team of ducks? doesn't sound quite right
<LaserJock> unless its a sports team maybe
<siretart> bunch of drakes doesn't sound too bad to me, but I'm not a native speaker either..
<sivang> guys, is there any fixing / packaging work to do before the archive opens?
<dholbach> motu meeting - who's missing?
<ajmitch> well we're expecting the archive to be open any minute now ;)
<siretart> sivang: what do you mean? do you have something specific in mind?
<bddebian3> \sh: ;-)
<sivang> siretart: no, I was hoping for some packaging practice :)
<siretart> ah. I see :)
<sivang> actually, I see some bugs on malonoe that wouldn't mind hetting fixed probably
<Nafallo> bddebian3: hmm, could you give us back the first incarnation please? :-)
<bddebian3> Oh, hehe, sure
<bddebian> Better? :-)
<siretart> sivang: do you have some overview over the specs for UBZ?
<sivang> siretart: overview? over your specs?
<siretart> sistpoty: congratulations to motuness, dude!
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Nafallo> :-)
<sivang> ah right, yay for siretart
<sivang> err,
<sistpoty> thx siretart :)
<sivang> sistpoty:
<sivang> but for siretart as well :)
<siretart> sivang: My question is if you know about someone interested in NetworkAuthentication
<siretart> sivang: ;)
<sistpoty> :)
<sivang> siretart: are we assigning people to specs already?
<siretart> sivang: no, but I wanted to make sure that we don't miss that at UBZ, it is quite important to me
<siretart> sivang: But I don't think I'm competent enough to implement/spec that completly on my own.
<siretart> so I look for people, I can work with about that
<sivang> siretart: neither do I, although it's interesting
<siretart> okay
<Kyynara> could someone tell my why this doesnt work? http://pastebin.com/398973
<TiMiDo> Kyynara there's an error on the makefile
<TiMiDo> debugi386/q2glx/ui_addressbook.o(.text+0x78): In function `AddressBook_MenuKey':ui/ui_addressbook.c:46: undefined reference to `Default_MenuKey'
<TiMiDo> debugi386/q2glx/ui_addressbook.o(.text+0x8c): In function `AddressBook_MenuDraw':
<ajmitch> ogra: what are my chances of getting a data-munching bug fixed in breezy-updates?
<TiMiDo> ajmitch look at the ubuntu webpage
<TiMiDo> check the release
<ajmitch> TiMiDo: I think I know what I mean :)
<TiMiDo> ok ;P
<TiMiDo> then why did you ask +)
<ajmitch> because getting things into -updates requires stringent manual approval
<ajmitch> and I was asking about my chances
<marcin_ant> hi all
<TiMiDo> hi marcin_ant
<marcin_ant> I got pretty strange and propably stupid question but I really need to know it
<TiMiDo> ok ask
<marcin_ant> question is - is this possible to build two totally different packages from single source?
<TiMiDo> yea
<marcin_ant> and with single rules and other debian/ files?
<ajmitch> yes
<koke> hi all
<ajmitch> hi koke
<TiMiDo> hi koke
<ajmitch> MOTU meeting on in #ubuntu-meeting, btw
<marcin_ant> and by totally different I mean with different names and different _version_
<TiMiDo> when is the meeting?
<bddebian> Right now :-)
<TiMiDo> oh ok nice
<koke> ajmitch: thanks :)
<koke> I need the power of iCal for my life :)
<marcin_ant> I know that I can add more than one Package: tag to control
<marcin_ant> but I don't know how to add info about version
<ajmitch> marcin_ant: right, why would you want separate versions?
<koke> marcin_ant: if I uderstand you, version info is taken from last entry in debian/changelog
<ajmitch> which means that 1 source, 1 version
<marcin_ant> ajmitch: well because this software is so weird that it keeps two (well more than two) applicatinos in single source package
<marcin_ant> ajmitch: it's emacs - and I would like to create separate package for gnus
<marcin_ant> ajmitch: and emacs is currently 22.x.xx version while gnus is 5.xx
<marcin_ant> so there is no way (in single *.orig tree) to buld two debs with different versions?
<ajmitch> nope, not that I'm aware of
<Lathiat> 4:31 < CIA-9> * avahi-discover-standalone is now working on osx
<Lathiat> watch out apple
<Lathiat> avahi is coming to get yoooooooooooooo
* Lathiat envisions macosx 10.5 shipping avahi instead of bonjour
<TiMiDo> ok I'm here
<Lathiat> TiMiDo: meeting isnt finished yet :)
<TiMiDo> oh i see
* pietrus envisions apple shipping ubuntu instead of mac os
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/avahi-discover-macosx.jpg
<Lathiat> pietrus: heh
<Lathiat> are .desktop files fair game to go upstream to debian?
<Lathiat> do debian care?
<Lathiat> (for the merging guide)
<ajmitch> sivang: I've had a merge script since the start of breezy
<dholbach> TiMiDo: this is the right place to do something :)
<sivang> ajmitch: interesting, is it published somewhere online? (curious for looking at the code)
<TiMiDo> dholbach yeah
<dholbach> because we're in a meeting :)
<ivoks> ok, i missed most of the meeting
<ajmitch> sivang: well I'm going to rewrite it so that it doesn't royally suck ;)
<ivoks> are we going to roll out our image?
<ajmitch> image?
<ajmitch> face of motu? ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: in python or s.th. different?
<ivoks> kernel image
<ajmitch> sistpoty: currently in python
<ivoks> and what's with dpatch?
<ivoks> i've been using it a lot for every small change
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool... maybe we can reuse code for revu2 then (we plan to create debdiffs to debian and ubuntu sp's) :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I've already got stuff on tiber :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch++ :)
<ajmitch> and I'm getting more skilled in patch-fu
<ajmitch> I feel like going wild with bzr on tiber
<sistpoty> sounds cool... sadly enough I'm not really familliar with bzr yet (apart from "simple commits")
<ivoks> ok... so what's the conclusion on topic 1?
<ajmitch> ivoks: no kernel images in universe
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> and #2? :)
<ajmitch> try not to introduce dpatch usage
<ajmitch> if it's there, use it
<ivoks> aha... ok
<ivoks> if not?
<ajmitch> suggestion was to stick patches in debian/ubuntu-patches, but apply them *before* build time
<ivoks> and small change in source needed?
<ivoks> i see... ok
<ivoks> so, messing with patch inside rules, ok
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> no
<ivoks> ?
<ajmitch> I said not at build time :)
<ajmitch> so apply patch manually, and keep a record of it in that dir ;)
<ivoks> huh?!
<ivoks> before build
<ivoks> manually?!
<ivoks> wtf?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> do you see that as a problem?
<ivoks> maybe i don't understand it well
<ivoks> patch and then dpkg-buildpackage?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> to keep relations with debian nice & cordial :)
<ivoks> don't you think that will slow us down?
<ajmitch> there has been some rage from DDs about our indiscriminate usage of dpatch
<ivoks> i understand that
<ajmitch> not particularly
<ivoks> and i agree with that rage
<ajmitch> I do this already myself, except with bzr
<ajmitch> since bzr is *way* better for me to track my patches to my debian packages
<ivoks> i'm just installing bzr :/
<ivoks> well, ok
<ivoks> i was late to meeting
<ivoks> now it's too late to talk about this...
<ajmitch> well this was based on input from kamion & seb128
<ajmitch> not just a MOTU decision :)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> is there bzr tutorial? :)
<ivoks> except man pages
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> see the webpage
<ajmitch> http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrDocumentation
<ivoks> thanks
<siretart> sistpoty: can you please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
<siretart> sistpoty: if you see something which I forgot, please add it
<ajmitch> ah, rock on
* ajmitch might have plenty to add >:)
<koke> damn! I've lost the ability to follow a meeting on IRC :/
<ajmitch> rewrite it all using zope! :D
<Lathiat> haha
<Loiosh> Yeah
<Lathiat> hahaha
<Loiosh> It's pretty hard.
<Lathiat> rails!
<koke> It's being really hard todat
<Lathiat> ruby! ruby!
<koke> today
<Loiosh> I've had to scroll back repeatedly
<koke> Lathiat: so you are another ruby fan?
<Lathiat> koke: yep
<koke> great!
<koke> any ideas on rubygems packaging
<Lathiat> koke: im a member of moturuby
<Lathiat> koke: hrm, no
<koke> or gem2deb? :)
<Lathiat> koke: we should look at that
<Lathiat> something like that python -> debian thing
<koke> I'm not sure what is better:
<koke> - a rubygems package which installs gems in /usr/local/gems
<Lathiat> koke: ideally we could make the gem install as a proper ruby library
<Lathiat> koke: since /usr/local shouldnt be touched by packages for a start
<koke> - or a gem2deb magic script who transforms foo_generator in libfoo-generator-gem-ruby
<koke> Lathiat: debian-policy 9.1.2: However, the package may create empty directories below /usr/local so that the system administrator knows where to place site-specific files. These directories should be removed on package removal if they are empty.
<koke> :)
<Lathiat> koke: right
<Lathiat> i'll have to look at the specifics of gems
<koke> are you going to UBZ?
<Lathiat> koke: itd also be nice to like
<Lathiat> koke: package rubygems :)
<Lathiat> koke: unfortunately not :(
<koke> or someone from the ruby team?
<Lathiat> its very expensive to get there from australia
<Lathiat> koke: not sure
<koke> discussing alone is lot more boring ;)
<sivang> let's do the meeting over a game of Mao, ogra ?
<sivang> :)
<koke> that crazy game
<koke> I escaped from it last time :)
* sivang can't wait to have a Mao match with Kinnison
<sivang> koke: lucky for you :)
<ogra> sivang, will get hard if you want to keep IRC on track :)
<siretart> puh. /me has just submitted 5 specs for ubz.. quite massive for my taste
<siretart> sistpoty: did you see the Revu2Spec wiki?
<sistpoty> siretart: not yet
<sivang> ogra: right :)
<siretart> okay
* sistpoty looks
<sivang> siretart: which reminds me, I need to get going with my overview spec and do the other pieces..
<sivang> siretart: (SetupSnapshots)
<siretart> sivang: yeah, we should talk about in how much detail this overlaps with NonpersistantUsers
<siretart> I really think that we could share code
<siretart> and energy
<ogra> siretart, i dont see them on the BOF wikipage
<siretart> ogra: NonpersistantUsers should be there
<ogra> siretart, yes, that a old one... i thought you added BOPF proposals
<sivang> siretart: I'm interested :)
<siretart> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications said specs should be tracked via malone rather than that wiki page
<ogra> this BOF list is way to long already ...
<siretart> it is in fact listed here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<sivang> siretart: thing is, I have no idea if anybody is actually interested in achieving this for Dapper, and I see great importance for this on the enterprise side
<siretart> but I will add it on BOFs
<Lathiat> you have to add specs to the wiki
<Lathiat> with details
<Lathiat> btu track them on launchpad
<siretart> sivang: I need NonpersistantUsers for an Internetcafe, and I think Edubuntu will be interested in this
<sivang> siretart: I thought at start to roll a POC version of some of the features, but then again - what happens if there is no interest on the decision makers..
<ogra> siretart, i dont add any spec stuff before i had a BOF to work out the spec :)
* sistpoty is out for some fresh air
<siretart> cu sistpoty
<sistpoty> bbl
<sivang> siretart: see, ogra made up an interesting point
<siretart> ogra: ah okay
<siretart> ogra: what do you think about NonpersistantUsers? is this something for edubuntu?
<ogra> siretart, indeed you can add the skeleton already :)
<ogra> siretart, sure, but i doubt we'll have time to get it into dapper...
<ogra> my edubuntu goals are already stuffed... such things will only work if i find more devs that are willing to help with additional features
<siretart> ogra: just curious, does your edubuntu goals include some kind of authentication service?
<ogra> my edubuntu goals are: local device support on thin clients, sound, centralized user management...
<ogra> and all the gui tools for ltsp management that didnt make breezy... (a lot)
<siretart> ogra: centralized user managment? can I read somewhere about this?
* ajmitch feels obliged to help out poor ogra on edubuntu :)
* siretart too
<ogra> siretart, not before we had the bof... the only thing i think about currently is that it will be ldap based and probably have kerberos bits... standards...
<ogra> go ahead guys, i need any help i can get :)
<siretart> ogra: this sounds like a great idea. I'm really interested in getting something like this into dapper
<ogra> oki, attend the BOF then :)
<sivang> ogra: I'm interested to help you :) But I know nothing about Edubutu or what lies underneath
<ogra> sivang, ubuntu lies underneath
* sivang feels there are evergrowing operations here, and it's getting way hard to follow :)
<sivang> ogra: sure, so everything stays apart for a different package selection?
<ogra> call it "package addition"
<ogra> and configuration ...
<tseng> hi ogra
<tseng> sivang
<ogra> hey tseng
<ajmitch> hello tseng
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-25
<sivang> ogra: well, I hope to attend the Edubuntu BOFs. There is actually a very big demand for it here in .IL, would be nice for them to have someone close to the project leader ;)
<sivang> tseng: Brandon!
<sistpoty> rs
<sistpoty> re even
<alexr> Hi! Can anybody help me with the question about modifying breezy install CD?
<TiMiDo> ok I'm here
<alexr> I tried adding some packages and remastering CD.
<crimsun> Lathiat: RE: .desktop, send upstream according to seb
<crimsun> Lathiat: that way neither Debian nor we have to worry about it
<Lathiat> crimsun: ok
<Lathiat> hrm
<alexr> TiMiDo: Sorry, were you talking to me?
<Lathiat> so debian dont want them?
<TiMiDo> not really
<Lathiat> what about cases of unmaintained software etc?
<alexr> OK :-)
<Lathiat> i made chat with seb
<crimsun> Lathiat: our first choice should be upstream for sending .desktop
<Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToPatch <-- draft, feel free to edit
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<crimsun> Lathiat: if that fails, then yeah, Debian.
<tritium> hello
<crimsun> hi
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> 'lo
* Lathiat now creates a draft HowTomerge
<tseng> hm good one
* tseng merges by a patented hack and slash technique
<Lathiat> tseng: more of a
<Lathiat> what to do when merging
<Lathiat> watch foro deprecated patches
<Lathiat> try drop the need to merege all together
<Lathiat> fix up the broken dpatch integrations
<Lathiat> send patches to debian and/or upstream
<tseng> i memorize all my changes
<tseng> and manually reapply them on top of the latest debian revision
<tseng> sounds crazy, I know
<Lathiat> eh
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> sounds like the kind of thing i do
<Lathiat> i have a habit of retyping things
<Lathiat> when i could just copy and paste them or something and change a few things
<ajmitch> ok, finally at work
<ajmitch> only 11:30am ;)
* ajmitch thought of a nice big addition to revu2 while he was on his way to work
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<ajmitch> Lathiat: basically automated checking, based on binary/source already in dapper
<ajmitch> so that it can track unmet dependencies, and if someone uploads a package to revu it can check if the unmet deps are satisfied
* ajmitch needs to spec it out asap
<sistpoty> ajmitch++ :)
<bddebian> Yeah ajmitch, get to work ;-P
<ajmitch> sistpoty: basically I'd have the whole apt binary & source list in postgresql & I've got part of a dependency resolver to work it out
<ajmitch> so I could make unmet deps lists for each arch, and the apt cache can be used for plenty of other things
<ajmitch> bddebian: I will, don't worry ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: sounds great... revu1/2 is using pg as well, so this shouldn't be too hard to get into revu2
<ajmitch> sistpoty: and then we get data from launchpad as well :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> sistpoty: that's why I suggested postgres
* bddebian has been useless lately :'-(
<siretart> ajmitch: sistpoty I'm sorry that I'm too tired for real discussion now, but how do you think about an upgrade to breezy for tiber?
<ajmitch> siretart: ++
<sistpoty> siretart++
<ajmitch> we know breezy inside out by now ;)
<siretart> hrhr
<ajmitch> pg 8.0?
<sistpoty> siretart: I read the specs for revu2... sounds good... but i'm a little tired for discussion right now as well *g*
<siretart> sistpoty: are there trouble expected with postgres upgrade?
<sistpoty> siretart: nope... i have revu1 running in sid with 8.0
<siretart> sistpoty: how about a sqlite backend for revu2?
<siretart> sistpoty: great.
* ajmitch will rewrite his merge calculator to use apt cache in postgres then
<ajmitch> why sqlite?
* sistpoty looks for sqlite
<ajmitch> I thought of that on the way to work as well (sqlite)
<siretart> ajmitch: it is easier to administer
<ajmitch> but less powerful
<siretart> this is the part i'm not sure yet
<siretart> what features would we miss from postgres?
<ajmitch> I might want a few postgres features
<sistpoty> and revu1/2 already uses postgres-specifics for some things :(
<ajmitch> not sure yet
<siretart> sistpoty: which ones?
<sistpoty> siretart: i don't know what sqlite can do... but postgres is pretty good sql-standard so that would be a + for postgres
<dholbach> good night
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<siretart> gn8 daniel!
<sistpoty> (and i'm quite familiar with postgres *g*)
* ajmitch can probably brush up on his postgres admin stuff
<ajmitch> sistpoty: great :)
<siretart> sistpoty: perhaps we should have a meeting and discussing postgres vs sqlite
<siretart> well, okay, I see, we are on postgres :)
<sistpoty> sure... we should meet anyway  ;)
* ajmitch feels like using sqlobject to do his magic :)
<siretart> sistpoty: when will you come next to uni?
<Lathiat> activerecord and ruby!
<ajmitch> Lathiat: don't be sick
<Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToMerge
<Lathiat> ajmitch: dont you be sick!
<sistpoty> siretart: imo compiler construction 3 starts next tuesday...?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: intercal 4 life!
<Lathiat> compielr construction?
<siretart> sistpoty: next monday.
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<siretart> sistpoty: and this weekend is invasion! :)
<sistpoty> siretart: hehe... ok, then I'll be there next monday
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I'll try & get my merge stuff done asap
<ajmitch> to make it easier on people
<sistpoty> gna... got pretty heavy workload this week/weekend :(
<siretart> oh :(
<siretart> well okay, well see on monday then.
* siretart heads for bed.
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<Lathiat> also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowTopatch
<Lathiat> feel free to edit, etc
<Lathiat> also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToPatch, rather
<Lathiat> i've put down what i know
<siretart> gn8 folks
<Lathiat> HowTomerge coudl do with extra transition info
<ajmitch> night siretart
<Lathiat> and ogra and ajmtich and stuff shoudl probably look over HowToPatch
<ajmitch> Lathiat: will do
<ogra> will do..
* sistpoty needs some sleep now
<sistpoty> gn8
<Lathiat> and its time for me to sleep
<Lathiat> night all
<Lathiat> or morning i should say
<Loiosh> Good day all
<bddebian> Later folks
<LaserJock> MOTUs: ok, I made a wiki page for documentation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUDocIdeas
* koke $ sudo halt
<bddebian> LaserJock: Cool, I'll check it out
<ajmitch> LaserJock: looks good
<ajmitch> most of the 'Process' section will be obsolete now
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yea, now that I have them organized, I am going to go back through and mark obsolete ones
<LaserJock> although, I think it would be nice to have a general Todo wiki to have one place to see where/what things are going on
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta go for now, but I will work some more on it
<ogra> HowToPatch looks fine despite the typos
<schweeb_> howdy ogra
<ogra> hey schweeb_
<TiMiDo> ok i"m back
<schweeb_> ogra: any work to be done yet?  I recently developed a bit of free time :)
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> could someone talk with me about emacs packages?
<LaserJock> is there a difference between a reviewer and a uploader on REVU?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> reviewer can advocate packages for upload to ubuntu
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a difference in requirements? Can anybody be a reviewer?
<ajmitch> MOTUs can
<LaserJock> but anybody can be an uploader?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> that's the intent
<LaserJock> ok, thanks for clarifying that
<LaserJock> It doesn't really say that on wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU though
<ajmitch> then it's another page to fix :)
<LaserJock> lol, guess so
<ajmitch> UniverseCandidates needs to be more prominent
<ajmitch> I just saw someone adding package requests to the goal section of the DapperDrake page
<LaserJock> yeah, there were a couple of pages that I had never seen before
<ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe link to some of the orphaned MOTU pages on here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrphanedPages
<ajmitch> the /talk pages generally aren't as useful
<LaserJock> lol, I just found BddebianIsAGod
<ajmitch> yep
<LaserJock> I was thinking of doing that ;-)
<ajmitch> I wish Trashcan would fix his client/computer/network.. :)
<Trashcan> me too
<ajmitch> Trashcan: connectivity issues?
<Trashcan> yup
<Trashcan> connection going bonkers, dunno why :o
<Trashcan> might be storms
<Trashcan> should be better :)
<Kyral> mmm
<Kyral> Final Fantasy Advent Children is really good so far :D
<crimsun> the trailer looked mildly entertaining
* bur[n] er hasn't seen an english version anywhere
<Kyral> Subtitled :D
<bur[n] er> i haven't seen english subtitled even... only german and swedish
<Kyral> AnimeYume
<bur[n] er> i still watched about 20 minutes worth ;)
<Kyral> Man that was good
<Kyral> granted you have to have played through FF7 to understand half the stuff in it :P
<Amaranth> what?
<Kyral> Final Fantasy Advent Children :D
<Kyral> I'm gonna go see it in theaters even though I just saw it. Its gonna be frickin' AWESOME with the big screen and the sound system!
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> you got it from a torrent
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Kyral> yahso?
<Kyral> Actually I didn't
<Kyral> I got it from a friend who got it from a friend who got it from a torrent ;P
<ajmitch> remember these channels are logged ;)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<Kyral> bah ajmitch </late>
<ajmitch> ?
<Kyral> ajmitch remember these channels are logged ;)
<ajmitch> yes?
<Kyral> having to bring things such as "legality" into it ;P
* ajmitch never did any such thing
<ajmitch> all I did was remind you that channels are logged
<Kyral> very heavily implied my friend ;P
<Kyral> but in this case it most likely ends up in the movie companies favor, because now I really wanna see it in the theater (something I usually don't do)
<Lathiat> lol
<Kyral> Anyway. Bedtime
<Kyral> I got bored and browsed SourceForge for games to package and I think I picked out some good ones....so thats what I'm gonna do tomarrow after homework
<Lathiat> Kyral: cool :) check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGames has links to game lists etc
<Amaranth> whoa, mignight. bed time
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it's great when you stumble across python bugs
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, hopefully this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates will have an LP solution soon
<ajmitch> I hope so
<Lathiat> ajmitch: python has no bugs!
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, for all his sins, sabdfl thought it was cool
<ajmitch> but the DapperDrake page really wasn't the place for package requests for now
<ajmitch> haha
<Lathiat> f**k me how long is that page
<ajmitch> yeah I sparked a 30min debate about package versioning yesterday when I questioned his wisdom :)
<Burgundavia> yes, I saw that
<Lathiat> where was that?
<Burgundavia> -devel
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-devel
<Lathiat> what time?
* ajmitch shrugs
<TiMiDo> hey people =)
* Lathiat tries to use the power of less instead
<Burgundavia> Lathiat, around utc 7am
<ajmitch> about 9:30pm last night, NZDT :)
<ajmitch> later than 0700UTC
<Burgundavia> ok
<Lathiat> "i agree with you philosopically, but technically your argumen tis bullshit
* Lathiat laughs
<Lathiat> and i cant speeel
<ajmitch> TiMiDo: please, don't change nick so many times when you're in a number of channels :)
<slomo> somebody already awake?
<tritium> almost bed time...
<zakame> i am awake :)
<slomo> fine :) anything to do currently? ;)
<zakame> i thought today's a bugday?
<slomo> yes
<vnpaven> Hello everybody
<vnpaven> Can you tell me how to install Ubuntu from harddisk (without burning CD from ISO file)?
<Treenaks> vnpaven: uh, not in 2-3 lines
<Treenaks> vnpaven: it _can_ be done but it's not easy
<jsgotangco> i know someone who upgraded from hoary to a breezy iso though
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> is https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs working for someone?
<vnpaven> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28948&highlight=Install+harddisk
<vnpaven> This is the link talk about this topic but not finish. Can you please continue to talk so that make it become How to ...?
<Lathiat> slomo: seems to be loading here
<Lathiat> 70%
* Lathiat waits
<Lathiat> yep loaded
<slomo> Lathiat: hmm... i get RequestExpired
<slomo> A server error occurred.
<slomo> weird
<Lathiat> i was getting that
<Lathiat> works here
<Lathiat> ask in #launchpad?
<slomo> asked ;)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey andrew
<jsgotangco> morning daniel
<dholbach> hey jerome, how are you?
<slomo> dholbach: please look at that amd64 gazpacho bug... my brother prepared a debdiff for the package which seems to work... the patch is from upstream
<jsgotangco> great...i always see your face in my laptop..can i ask for more?
<dholbach> slomo: excellent, i have it on my todo list
<slomo> dholbach: something for breezy-updates?
<slomo> i'm currently working on that drgeo-menus-don't-work bug... seems to be related to c++ symbol mangling :(
<dholbach> slomo: probably, yes
<Mortas> dholbach: is there a short summary of the meeting of yesterday because it's a bit chaotic to read through :)
<Mortas> otherwise I'll wait till after some coffee before I try to read it again
<ajmitch> Mortas: there will be once I write it up
<slomo> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hello slomo
<ajmitch> no I've been busy, I haven't looked at them today ;)
<ajmitch> that's going on my 'long weekend/public holiday' pile
<slomo> ajmitch: hehe ok :) thanks
<slomo> how long is your weekend?
<ajmitch> 3 days
<ajmitch> this weekend
<slomo> :)
<slomo> dholbach: hehe, praise me :) i fixed drgeo ;)
* ajmitch starts the SlomoIsAGod page
<dholbach> WOW :)))
<slomo> dholbach: sadly it needs patching autofoo
* dholbach hugs slomo 
<slomo> or maybe i can set LDFLAGS for configure... hmm
<slomo> where shall i send i mail to approve and upload my patch? mdz?
<dholbach> yes
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> email debdiff
<ajmitch> he *might* approve
<ajmitch> I've got to email him my f-spot debdiff
<ajmitch> since f-spot is killing data in its sleep
<ajmitch> (on ppc)
<slomo> hehe... it's a one-liner and makes the program usable again
<ajmitch> f-spot is a 4 line patch from upstream
<slomo> yes, i looked at it
<slomo> he didn't approve it?
<ajmitch> I haven't emailed it yet
<ajmitch> since I didn't want to do that while I was at work
<ajmitch> and I only prepared the upload during the MOTU meeting :)
<Treenaks> oh, and beagle broke jdub's fs
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> beagle love
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> ok, mail sent
* ajmitch would rather test his package a little bit before submitting
<slomo> ajmitch: imho not needed for drgeo... it's only a new linker flag which should be there anyway and makes it possible for libglade to find some symbols... doesn't change anything else
<slomo> ajmitch: and the bug that was reported disappeared... the menus actually work again ;)
<ajmitch> yes, whereas f-spot is currently working in breezy
<slomo> yes
<ajmitch> so if an update broke it, I'd be dead
<slomo> shall i test it a bit on ppc?
<ajmitch> please do, you want my package?
<slomo> yes
<ajmitch> wget http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/f-spot_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.1.d{sc,iff.gz}
<slomo> don't want to compile anything today... otherwise i don't have enough power for the next 2 hours ;)
<slomo> hm... isn't f-spot arch all?
<ajmitch> grab the orig.tar.gz from the mirror
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> although it possibly should be
* ajmitch has to review if it has any arch-specific code
<slomo> it has
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I thought arch: any was right :)
<ajmitch> you don't have a fast ppc?
<slomo> i don't enough battery
<ajmitch> ah.. :)
<ajmitch> use an ac adaptor! ;)
<slomo> forgot mine today ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> silly
* ajmitch *really* has to make sure he packs that for UBZ
<Mortas> ogra: alive?
<ogra> Mortas, gimme a moment...
<ogra> whats your BZ login ?
<Mortas> kristian@xsguard.com
<dholbach_> ogra: do you have bugzilla SUPAH POWAH? if so, could you give me permissions to set default assignees for packages?
<dholbach_> i suppose, i need more powah for that
<ogra> Mortas, you have read and understood the according wikipages ? HelpingWithBugs etc ?
<ogra> dholbach_, i have only editusers power, mvo has editcomponents
<dholbach_> ahhh cooll
<dholbach_> and who has givepeopleeditcomponents?
<dholbach_> just matt?
<Mortas> ogra: yes I have, and if I'm in doubt about something I will discuss in ubuntu-bugs first before I change anything
<ogra> probably kiko too on a lower level
<Lathiat> database haxxoring
<ogra> Mortas, ok, you got the power, use it wise luke ;)
<Mortas> thank you :)
<jsgotangco> use the force and run little padawan...
<jsgotangco> heh
* ajmitch wishes he had supremeultimatepowah ;)
<Lathiat> jsgotangco: run? fly!
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, should be supremefunkadeliultimateboppydoopypowah
<Lathiat> hacksawpowah
<ajmitch> no I already have that one
<jsgotangco> you don't have the limited edition mothership mode
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch wanders off for an early night
<ajmitch> bye all
<Lathiat> hahaha early night
<jsgotangco> night andrew
<Lathiat> yeh right ;p
<ajmitch> early == before 11pm
<ajmitch> I would like to get > 4 hours sleep for a change ;)
<Lathiat> heh i got 4 hours slepe last night
<Lathiat> the world wouldnt let me get back to sleep
<Lathiat> phone calls
<Lathiat> aunty home
<Lathiat> battery flat in car
<Lathiat> put the grocieries away
<Lathiat> more phone calls
<Lathiat> etc etc
<Lathiat> i gave up
<marcin_ant> hi all - I would like to prepare a bunch of new packages for emacs and got some 'fundamental' questions - I need some emacs/debian policy guru to talk - anyone?
* zyga_ server hardware change 
<slomo> ajmitch: i'll test f-spot now... i was eating ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: it eats my jpegs when rotating ;)
<slomo> ajmitch: with every jpeg
<pef> hello, can someone check this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=803 ? thanks !
<Lathiat> pef: is this proposed for -updates ?
<pef> Lathiat: sorry, don't understand
<Lathiat> pef: is this the kcheckgmail packaged prosped for breezy-updates
<pef> Lathiat: yes, because it corrects an important bug
<Lathiat> pef: right, is it possible to just patch and not have a new upstream?
<pef> Lathiat: will try to apply my patch to current version
<Lathiat> pef: i mean, since the package is useless, its probably not a huge issue
<Lathiat> what does the new version change?
<Lathiat> also 0.5.4 is in debian
<Lathiat> if yoru going to do a new upstream you could considering grabbing that + our patch
<Lathiat> as 1ubuntu1
<Lathiat> -> less merge effort later
<pef> Lathiat: So i have to get debian's version, apply my patch and upload this to revu, right ?
<Lathiat> i guess
<Lathiat> but not doing a new upstream at all would be preferable i guess
<marcin_ant> is there any common naming convention for emacs packages in ubuntu?
<pef> Lathiat: when upstream author will release new version, can I upload this version when dapper will be open ?
<Lathiat> pef: of course
<Lathiat> pef: it would be synced from debian anyway
<Lathiat> pef: also, please file your patch in the debian bug
<pef> Lathiat: I've sent a link to my patch
<Lathiat> pef: cool
<pef> Lathiat: I don't fully understand difference between grabbing Debian's version and patch it, and upload new upstream version (same as Debian) and patch it, is it only a merge problem ?
<Lathiat> pef: we need to stay as close to debian as possible
<Lathiat> pef: less work later on
<Lathiat> we have enough work to do
<pef> Lathiat: ok, should I upload to revu using dput as usual, or give a link to  a debdiff ?
<dholbach> janimo is here! :)
<tseng> woo
<Lathiat> pef: ummm
<Lathiat> pef: dunno, but throw me a debdiff
<pef> Lathiat: ok, same work to do with this bug ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/qtparted/+bug/3212
<Lathiat> pef: that wont go into breezy
<Lathiat> pef: but for dapper, yes
<Lathiat> if theres a new debian apckage
<Lathiat> best to keep in line with that
<Lathiat> (i know its a hassle sometimes when debian is a bit behind, but it saves us more work in the long run)
<Lathiat> e.g. feel free to upload before debian gets  anew version, but when they do, its nice to sync up
<pef> foo-1.0 is in Debian and ubuntu repository, if foo-1.1 is released, I can package it for Dapper, and when Debian uploads its own 1.1 release, I should sync from them ?
<Lathiat> basically
<pef> and what's the role of utnubu team ?
<Lathiat> like, you can reapply your changes or whatever, just try hard to keep our packages the same
<Lathiat> pef: to take our patches and stuff and put them back in debian
<Lathiat> and packages, or whatever
<Lathiat> in cases where we dont help do it ourselves
<Lathiat> basically
<Lathiat> MOTU for debian
<Lathiat> in a reverse relationshpi
<Lathiat> .. sortof. :)
<Lathiat> now i will tes tkcheckgmail
<Lathiat> man
<Lathiat> siretart: revu needs tohave an apt archive
<Lathiat> siretart: so i can apt update adn apt-get -t revu source kcheckgmail
<Lathiat> siretart: copying and pasting 3 links is so not win
<pef> ok : thanks for the infos, I will keep you informated about my debdiff, I have to go to work now
<Lathiat> pef: ok
<Lathiat> pef: i'll check this gmail anyway
<pef> will do it this evening
<Lathiat> pef: since it probably wont be far off
<pef_aw> Lathiat: is it another problem ?
<Lathiat> pef_aw: hrm?
<Lathiat> wwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<Lathiat> www
<Lathiat> wwwwwwwww
<Lathiat> wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<Lathiat> fuck
<Lathiat> my w key is so sensitive
<Lathiat> i res
<Lathiat> t my finger on it and it goes off :(
<pef_aw> :p
<pef_aw> so
<pef_aw> gone
<pschulz01> Has anyone tried 'tftpd' or 'atftp' with breezy? Particularly with inetd?
<pschulz01> I have seen a problem with getting these packages to work.
<ogra> pschulz01, use tftpd-hpa
<pschulz01> ogra: OK.. but I don't think the problem is not with the daemons, rather inetd, and IPv6 configuration.
<pschulz01> ogra: I'll see if  tftpd-hpa does the same thing.. back soon.
<ogra> pschulz01, edubuntu uses it extensively for ltsp... i havent heard about any probs with it
<pschulz01> ogra:  do they run it as a deamon, or via inetd?
<ogra> inetd
<siretart> pschulz01: try starting it as daemon instead of inetd. I've seen that issue last week
<siretart> couldn't reproduce on my own machine though
<siretart> Lathiat: yes, I want to exploit mini-dinstall for revu2
<pschulz01> siretart:  tftpd-hpa does the same thing!... inetd starts it up as a upd6 service.
<pschulz01> siretart: 'netstat -u -l' shows this up.
<pschulz01> The problem is not present (udp is used) if it is started up as a daemon.. so something isn't right with either inetd or tcpd.
<Lathiat> siretart: cool :)
<Lathiat> im going to beed
<Lathiat> night all
<ogra> night Lathiat
<ogra> pschulz01, as i said, it waorks flawless in edubuntu on a lot of installs out of the box... ipv6 shouldnt be an issue at all... did you tweak your inetd somehow ?
<pschulz01> ogra: I only changed my path.
<ogra> from ? to ?
<ogra> i mean that shouldnt affect it since it uses root's path just courious....
<pschulz01> ogra: inetutils-inetd doesn't get installed by default.. and inetd.conf is empty by default on breezy.. is this expected?
<ogra> breezy doesnt install any server apps
<ogra> security policy
<pschulz01> ogra: changed /boot to /var/tftpboot
<pschulz01> ogra: there is only one line in /etc/inetd.conf
<ogra> rather /var/lib/tftpboot, no ?
<pschulz01> ogra: I proably should.. but old habit die hard.
<ogra> not here, my inetd.conf is populated fine here
<pschulz01> ogra: upgrade or fresh install?
<ogra> both...
<pschulz01> Hmmm.
<ogra> upgraded standard breezy and fresh installed edubuntu (where inetd comes by default)
<pschulz01> What should I expect to be in inetd.conf after I install the package? lots of lines?
<ogra> a handfull... let me purge netkit-inetd and remove the file...
<pschulz01> I'm at package.. inetutils-inetd-2:1.4.2+20040207-4
<ogra> oh, why dont you use the supported version ?
<pschulz01> Arn't I? I should be...
<ogra> netkit-inetd is in main
<ogra> use that one...
<pschulz01> Hmmm.. fixing up apt/sources.list and trying again.
<Kyral> mornin;
<pschulz01> ogra: That fixed the problem.. netkit-base-0.10-10.1ubuntu2
<ogra> yup
<pschulz01> What is  inetutils-inetd for?
<pschulz01> Cheers... bye for now.
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> hey barry :-)
<bddebian> Hi Daniel :)
<dholbach> it was nice to have met another MOTU :)
<pef> Lathiat: ping
<pef> dholbach: hello Daniel
<Lathiat> pef: pong
<Lathiat> pef: i wont be aroudn long but
<Lathiat> i just woke up will be going back to bed shortly
<dholbach> hey pef
<pef> Lathiat: just to give you the link to kcheckgmail's debdiff
<pef> Lathiat: http://dev.erodia.net/ubuntu/kcheckgmail-0.5.4/kcheckgmail_0.5.4-1.1ubuntu1.debdiff
<Lathiat> cool
<pef> I hope it's ok
<Lathiat> im sure its fine
<pef> dholbach: what do you think about my intention to being a MOTU ?
<dholbach> pef: that's an excellent plan :))))
<Lathiat> sounds good to me
<dholbach> you did quite a lot of good work already
<Lathiat> pef: btw, while that doesn't look particularly intrusive
<Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToPatch
<pef> Lathiat: patch not "big" enough to use dpatch ?
<pef> dholbach: ok, so I will ask for being a motu to next CC :)
<Lathiat> pef: well its not huge, its not small, but the general advice i got from the meeting was just plain not to screw with the build system
<dholbach> pef: a member first
<dholbach> :)
<Lathiat> i dunno, im waitin gfor ajmitch adn ogra or soemthign to review taht page
<Lathiat> eh, waiting for ajmitch and ogra or someone to review that page
<pef> dholbach: already a member :)
<dholbach> oh then at TB meeting
<Lathiat> pef: tip: get yoru wiki page up to scratch!
<Lathiat> link to ever bug you played with, eveyr apckage upload, every wiki page, etc
<ogra> Lathiat, look for typos, else it looks good
<Lathiat> ogra: so in pef's case
<Lathiat> ogra: should just patch the source and include the diff in debian/ubuntu-patches/kubuntu_authentication.diff or somethign like that?
<dholbach> i'd very much like to have more of the kubuntu guys in here :)
<ogra> Lathiat, yup... if there is no patchsys inside the package yet
<Lathiat> dholbach: yeh the kubuntu guy swkinda hangout on #kubuntu-devel :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dooglus> Breezy's "isag" is very broken, as I reported in malone 3393.  I could make a patch to fix the problems.  Should I?  Or should it go upstream?
<pef> ogra: and my changes to debian/control will be lost ? what about putting in ubuntu-patches/ the debdiff ?
<ogra> nope, just a plain patch....
<dooglus> dholbach: I see you just did something to the 3393, but I'm not sure what it means.  "Assignee: (unassigned) => MOTU"
<Lathiat> pef: debian/ stuff is fine, leave that out
<ogra> the control changes will be in te diff.gz
<Lathiat> derek_: thats usually easy enough to see the difference of
<pef> Lathiat: so minor changes I've made like adding homepage to debian/control description, updating debian/watch file are useless ?
<Lathiat> nono
<Lathiat> as in
<Lathiat> include them
<Lathiat> dont change the patch in ubuntu-patches with them
<Lathiat> at least i dont think so
<Lathiat> ogra: ?
<Lathiat> i suppose that would make merging when we dont have the common base easier
<ogra> Lathiat, right
<dholbach> dooglus: it's a universe package and i assigned it to the bunch of guys who are supposed to FIX UNIVERSE PACKAGES! :)
<pef> getting debian's version, applying my patch, make somes changes to debian/, put my patch into ubuntu-patches/ and make a debdiff ?
<pef> or just put the patch to ubuntu-patches and make a debdiff ?
<Lathiat> i *think* it shoudl go *inside* a dir ubuntu-patches
<Lathiat> but umm
<Lathiat> im not sure
<dooglus> dholbach: does that mean that I shouldn't fix it?
<dholbach> no, sure, fix it
<dholbach> dooglus: if a bug is assigned to motu, it gets on desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<pef> Lathiat: if I patch the source and put the patch into ubuntu-patches, changes will be saved twice
<dooglus> Very well.  By the power of Grayskull!
<Lathiat> pef: yes
<Lathiat> pef: but thats how it was recommended to do it
<Lathiat> pef: basically the patch actually change sit, the included patch is just informative
<pef> uh ok
<pef> will do it rightly now
<Lathiat> eh dont be too fussed, all this stuff is 'new' it wasnt 'wrong' bebfore just we decided to change policy so its just 'more right' thsi way :)
<Lathiat> that wiki page was created yesterday :)
<pef> Lathiat: no problems, it's not a  hard thing to do ;)
<dooglus> dholbach: oh, I see.  It just occurred to me - perhaps this package is set up for the amd64 kernel or something?  Could it be that the different kernels have different features available in /proc?
<dholbach> that's a question you better ask in #ubuntu-kernel
<pef> Lathiat: a recommend "level" (-p1, -p0, ...) for the patch ?
<tekNico> Hi everyone.
<tekNico> I built the packages for pytables 1.1.1-1, universe currently has 0.9.1-2, looks like SloMoSnail is the Ubuntu maintainer.
<Amaranth> there is no maintainer in ubuntu
<Amaranth> everyone is free to do whatever
<Amaranth> the maintainer is just the last person that touched it
<SloMoSnail> tekNico: i'm not... i fixed something with it but nothing else ;) i don't even know what this package is good for
<tekNico> slomo: I also saw pytables somehow assigned to you on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps . :-)
<slomo> tekNico: that was the fix ;)
<slomo> hm, does someone know what to do with CVE in launchpad? this one is fixed for ages: https://launchpad.net/malone/cve/2005-2718
<doko> tekNico: please make sure to take the very same .orig.tar.gz, which is in debian unstable
<tekNico> doko: that's what I did, yeah.
<doko> tekNico: thanks :)
<tekNico> What should I do now to help v.1.1.1-1 land in universe?
<ogra> tekNico, wait until the archive opens for uploads to dapper :)
<tekNico> OK. Then what? Shall I directly upload the files myself? :-)
<ogra> tekNico, to where ?
<ogra> the archives are locked currently ...
<ogra> we wait that dapper opens o we can upload to dapper
<ogra> *so
<tekNico> ogra: I got that, so I'll wait.
<ogra> :)
<tekNico> ogra: but someday the wait will be over, hopefully.
<tekNico> ogra: then what?
<ogra> hopefully during this week
<tekNico> Is anyone able to upload stuff to the archives? I thought only MOTU members could do that.
<ogra> tekNico, are you sure debian hasnt the new version already ? because then we'd autosync it from there... else some MOTUs need to review and upload your package
<ogra> tekNico, exactly
<tekNico> Unstable has it, testing has not.
<pef> ogra: does it seems ok for you ? http://dev.erodia.net/ubuntu/kcheckgmail-0.5.4/kcheckgmail_0.5.4-1.1ubuntu1.debdiff
<ogra> we never sync from testing
<tekNico> ok, then I'll just use my packages until the autosync.
<tekNico> It's been rather trivial work anyway. :-)
<ogra> pef, looks sane to me... lets see what mdz/Kamion say :)
<pef> ogra: should I ask one of them directly, or should I put this somewhere on the wiki ?
<ogra> got a bug for it ?
<ogra> so attach it to the bug
<tekNico> Mmh... but I'll have to switch to Dapper to be able to use those autosync'ed packages.
<tekNico> What's the procedure to decide what's going to be backported and what's not going to be?
<ogra> tekNico, backports will need a base first ... there is nothing where the backports team can backport from to breezy currently... this waits too on the archive opening
<ogra> tekNico, but the right way is to send a mail to the ubuntu-bakports mailing list and to request a backport from dapper to breezy
<ogra> *ubuntu-backports
<tekNico> ogra: ok, thanks
<Yagisan> G'day guys
<Yagisan> we have a motu meeting in a few hours - that I won't be able to attend
<slomo> Yagisan: it was yesterday ;)
<Yagisan> really - I'm out of it
<pef> bye !
<Yagisan> need sleep badly
<Yagisan> and need to finsh ubi assinment
<Yagisan> slomo: what was the result for universe kernels ?
<slomo> Yagisan: don't know... i had to sleep :( i'll read the log tomorrow
<slomo> ok, i have to leave again... bbl :)
<Yagisan> night
<shawarma> What does it take to be able to comment on REVU?
<siretart> shawarma: contributors comment only their own uploads. reviewers can comment on all packages
<shawarma> siretart: And reviewers are... who? MOTU?
<siretart> shawarma: yes. REVU is mainly for MOTUs
<siretart> well, for MOTUs reviewing packages of non-motus, that is
<ogra> or packages of ther MOTUs :)
<ogra> *other
<shawarma> siretart: Ok. Fair enough. Just had a bit of time and felt like helping newbees by reviewing stuff but there was nowhere to post comments.
<shawarma> Do you MOTUs put your own packages through REVU?
<siretart> shawarma: yes. I will work on revu2 to make it possible to comment for ALL users, not only reviewers
<siretart> shawarma: I did some packages I wanted fellow motus to review on revu
<shawarma> siretart: Oh, right. That makes sense.
<shawarma> siretart: I suppose I COULD also just pull myself together and become a MOTU. :-D Oh well, some other day.
<ogra> shawarma, we have a policy that NEW packages need reviews from 2 MOTUs
<shawarma> ogra: Oh, also packages from MOTUs?
<ogra> regardless if you are a MOTU or not :)
<shawarma> Ok. That's probably a very sensible policy. Peer review can be very valuable.
<shawarma> I need a bit of help. I'm just reading the debconf tutorial. I find it quite ambiguous. The description says to use db_input + db_go to ask a question, but a few paragraphs later in an example both db_input and db_go are skipped and instead db_get is used... I'm a bit confused.
<shawarma> Which is it? Can I just use db_get instead of _input and _go ?
<ogra> input waits for an input, go goes to the next step get gets the value from the input...
<ogra> have a look at some postinst that asks debconf questions...
<ogra> moodle is a godd one...
<shawarma> So what would happen if I try to _get a value that hasn't been asked?
<ogra> *good
<ogra> it would be unset
<shawarma> Ok. That makes sense. Then one of the examples in the tutorial is b0rk3n.
<shawarma> ogra: Ok, thanks!
<allee> siretart: aaaahhh, 'comment for ALL users'.  I will like revu2 very much ;)
<siretart> allee: :)
<Kyral> Yo guys
<Kyral> hmm, can php4 and php5 exist on the same system like gcc-3.4 and gcc-4 can...
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/phpldapadmin/+bug/3361 <---Wait a sec...
<Kyral> the depends say php4 and php5...
<Kyral> what does a "|" in depends mean again? Or?
<dholbach> yes
<Kyral> to which one? :P
<dholbach> the last :)
<Kyral> or if the package has a bunch of | in them it means it will take whatever is installed if its on that list?
<Kyral> which would make #3361 null and void
<Kyral> So comment + Reject?
<\sh> Kyral: it says "php4 | php5"?
<Kyral> yup
<\sh> Kyral: in install dependencies...so it will take php4 if php4 is available...php5 if php5 is available.and what does our package`
<\sh> ?
<Kyral> phpldapadmin
<Kyral> or what does it say in the Depends?
<\sh> The following extra packages will be installed: apache apache-common apache2-utils libapache-mod-php4 libapr0 libzzip-0-12 php4 php4-common php4-ldap
<Kyral> hmm
<\sh> which means, php5 will never be installed
<\sh> bah...webapps
<\sh> it's always a mess
<Kyral> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3387
<Kyral> thats what it says when I do an apt-cache search for it
<Kyral> Bah, I'll just change the control to force it to use PHP5
<\sh> -EILLPACKAGE
<\sh> Kyral: no
<Kyral> eh
<poningru> hi I was wondering what the steps are
<poningru> in becoming a motu
<Kyral> Kill bugs :D
* poningru stomps on some roaches
<poningru> ok
<poningru> thats the thing
<poningru> is it the malone ones or buo ones?
<Kyral> \sh is there a way to alter the control so it prefers PHP5?
<poningru> buo == bugzilla ubuntu org
<Kyral> I'm using Malone myself
<poningru> I meant which package bugs to stomp? as in universe bugs or general bugs?
<ogra> Kyral, just make sure php5 is installed, then it shouldnt pull in 4 anymore
<\sh> Kyral: I'm thinking about a better solution
<Kyral> okay
<\sh> Kyral: because some people don't like php5 and some like php4
* Kyral falls down
<ogra> and 5 is the default in main...
<\sh> ogra: yes...but php4 | php5 with apt-get will always pull in php4
<Kyral> Should I just comment to say "If you have PHP5 installed it will use PHP5" and then Reject it?
<\sh> ogra: or?
<Kyral> but would php5 | php4 pull in php5?
<ogra> \sh, it will pull in the first, yes... but if php5 is there, the dependency is satisfied
<ogra> luckily we will be able to drop 4 in dapper i think
<\sh> ogra: I don't like packages webapps
<Kyral> I'm thinking that I should just switch the OR statements....
<\sh> why we have to depend on it...why not suggest ;)
<Kyral> or reccommend
<ogra> \sh, phpmyadmin's eay install has often saved my ass in the past... (today i dont touch mysql anymore... but back then it was great to have it installed in 5min on debian)
<ogra> *easy
<Kyral> 'cause then someone running aptitude -r would get it anyway
<\sh> ogra: yes...but there must be really a better way...something like php-install-app-assistant
<Kyral> someone just tell me how I should modify this control file to smack down the bug
<ogra> try if changing the order works
<\sh> Kyral: change the order
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> thats all I wanted to hear :D
<\sh> Kyral: try it first but
<\sh> Kyral: so setup a local repos and check the install with apt-get -s install phpldapadmin and aptitude
<Kyral> or, seeing as I don't have PHP installed period....
<\sh> Kyral: apt-get -s install doesn't install anything..but it will show you what it would install if
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> how do I setup a local repo? :P
<\sh> Kyral: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalAptGetRepositories
<bigcx2> Kyral: mini-dinstall
<Kyral> and increment the changelog...
<LaserJock> do we still need any or all of these: MOTUSlang2Transition, MOTUGLUTransition, UniverseCxxTransition ?
<Kyral> should I use the --closes option if this works?
<\sh> LaserJock: UniverseCxxTransition please leave it...it could help me for the syncs
<\sh> Kyral: no
<\sh> --closes is closing bugs in bts
<Kyral> kk
<LaserJock> What about Slang2 ?
<Kyral> should I change the release from "unstable" to "breezy"?
<\sh> Kyral: yes
<Kyral> and did a standard dch -i
<\sh> Kyral: but u checked with debian? if there is already a new package?
<Kyral> actually...
<Kyral> I should go do that...
<\sh> dch -v <debian-version>-<debian-rev>ubuntu1 if it's not an ubuntu package
<\sh> dch -v <debian-version>-<debian-rev>ubuntu1 -D breezy if it's not an ubuntu package
<Kyral> yah, Debian has a new version...but it doesn't look like it fixes the depend problem
<Kyral> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/admin/phpldapadmin
<Kyral> should I sync to that one and then fix the depend problem?
* \sh needs a sid install
<Kyral> or a sid pbuilder ;P
<Kyral> I'll just fix Ubuntu's
<Kyral> we can fix sid's in Dapper ;P
<\sh> well...there is no update for breezy....
<Kyral> so....?
<Kyral> go for sid?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> and wait for dapper ;)
<Kyral> What should i mark the bug then....
<\sh> accepted?
<Kyral> Sounds good to me
<\sh> and write a remark to the bug
<Kyral> like? "Will be fixed in Dapper"?
<\sh> and note this bug on your wikipage
<\sh> yepp
<Kyral> Who should I assign to?
<\sh> MOTU
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> I should really go though and add all the bugs I've affected/fixed on my Wiki
<\sh> Kyral: u have to find those bugs again and fix them for dapper, or?
<Kyral> no, I have to find the ones I've confirmed, fixed, etc
<\sh> Kyral: so for your own documentation it would be good :)
<Kyral> I wish Launchpad tracked that....
<LaserJock> me too
<Kyral> It tracks numbers but not the thing itself
<\sh> hmm...it should have a keyword field...keyword "MOTU" and assigned to you :(
<Kyral> or I can just search through my archive for the Universe for stuff from me ;P
<LaserJock> I thought it would be nice if it had a "belongs to" field and a "assigned to" field
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I wonder if Mez uploaded my fix...
<Kyral> I forget what package though...
<Kyral> Anyway I'll fix this and upload to REVU
<Kyral> adding changelog, (0.9.7-1ubuntu1)
<\sh> Kyral: please don't :) attach a debdiff
* Kyral falls
<Kyral> didn't you tell me to? ;P
<Kyral> so just dch -i it?
<\sh> Kyral: debdiff <debian sid version> <new ubuntu version> > <diffname>
<\sh> don't use revu for this
<Kyral> so what should I change the version to?
<Kyral> or did you mean don't upload to REVU
<\sh> Kyral: the version is ok...don't upload it to REVU :)
<Kyral> okay
<\sh> Kyral: attach a debdiff to the bug
<Kyral> I was confused for a second ;P
<LaserJock> \sh: shouldn't the content KubuntuSuggestedPackages be covered in UniverseCandidates ?
<LaserJock> or at least transferred there
<\sh> LaserJock: I don't think so...but please ask riddell..
<Riddell> it could be
<Riddell> but I think it would be nice to have a special kubuntu section on there if that was the case
<LaserJock> I can just make a link from UniverseCandidated to KubuntuSuggestedPackages
<Riddell> that's another possibility
<Riddell> it's just we have people come along and say "I want to help kubuntu" and that's a good page to point them to
<Riddell> or would be if it was up to date
<LaserJock> Riddell: that makes sense
<LaserJock> Riddell: I am just trying to make sure people can find what they want and it seems like a link from UniverseCandidates would help
<Riddell> yep, please add
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> LaserJock, you do awesome work, dont forget it to note it on your wikipage
<ogra> it will be valuable for becoming a member
<LaserJock> ogra: oh, don't worry about that ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: I've been thinking about that
<LaserJock> ogra: I got my gpg key signed yesterday so I am pretty excited about that
<ogra> go on with what youre doing and apply for membership soon ;)
<ogra> cool !
<Kyral> uhh
<LaserJock> what about FinishedUniverseLIbraries?
<LaserJock> is it still current?
<lorenzod> ogra, dholbach, I've been looking at the wiki about helping out on MOTU.
<lorenzod> It says "contact one of you".
<Kyral> SCORE! It WORKS :D
<ogra> lorenzod, yup
<LaserJock> hmm, last edited 07/17/2005 . maybe not, but it seems like it some Unfinished stuff
<dholbach> hi lorenzod, nice to come here :)
<ogra> but everyone in here can help too :)
<lorenzod> thanks.
<lorenzod> So what do I need to know?
<lorenzod> Apart from everything, that is..
<ogra> you need to become a member first to become a MOTU
<dholbach> we're currently having our H^WBUG day, so if you'd like to help out there, that'd be cool
<lorenzod> ogra, been looking at that. how do I work myself up to that level?
<ogra> to become a member you have to make some valuable contributions, create a wikipage about you and add the li of stuff you have done there
<ogra> fixing bugs is a valuable contribution... writing wikipages, howtos, doing artwork, helping to fix packages etc... anything that helps the distro...
<lorenzod> ogra, if i do artwork, I'm sure to be blacklisted for good! ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> its one among many things you can do...
<lorenzod> but bugfixing sounds more interesting to me..
<ogra> id start with the wikipage and dholbach's suggestion ;)
<ogra> go to #ubuntu-bugs
<ogra> thats where the fun goes on
<lorenzod> moving there.
<\sh> damn
<Kyral> and debdiff attached
<Kyral> Case CLOSED
<LaserJock> do we still need MOTUToMerge or it being replaced?
<Kyral> Should I change it to "Pending Upload"?
* \sh bang his head on his desk...blaming divitech SI server and swearing 
<\sh> Kyral: no
<ogra> \sh, again ?
<Kyral> well I'm done with it
<Kyral> time to mark it on my Wiki :D
<nalioth> anybody know why the source cds are no longer available?
<\sh> ogra: divitech has new problems...right now it doesn't play out EIT data for some services
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/phpldapadmin/+bug/3361 <--- If anyone wants to look
<\sh> ogra: but the EIT was there this afternoon
<ogra> weird
<\sh> ogra: and in UPG Network where SA SI server rules...there is EIT !
<\sh> ogra: which means, divitech SI server refuses to take the EIT data coming from UPG Network
<\sh> ogra: and that means: Divitech is Java Crap
<nalioth> i hate it when i send someone to get something and it's not there
<\sh> fck
<\sh> ogra: fossi phoned me and "ordered me to ISH NOC right now"
<nalioth> y'all be good
<ogra> \sh, have fun :(
* Kyral wonders how he should define a "Squished Bug" for his WikiPage...
<ajmitch> morning all
<Kyral> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> Kyral: what bug # ?
<Kyral> 3361
<\sh> ogra: salvatore is on shift now...so it's ok
<Kyral> I just nailed another one
<spayne> aloha
<ajmitch> from the discussion I saw the package didn't need fixed?
<ogra> ah, fine
<Kyral> It was more like a depend change ;P
<ajmitch> all you did was reverse the php4 | php5 to php5 | php4
<Kyral> and I synced it to Sid
<ajmitch> which only changes which one will be installed first
<Kyral> which is what the bug was complaining about ;P
<spayne> \sh: what was the site for checking if your key was in the strong set
* spayne should use bookmarks
<ajmitch> aka, yet more merge effort later on
<Kyral> Still I busted the bug. C'mon man I'm happy here ;P
<\sh> spayne: check it on biglumber
<\sh> I'm going to the NOC now...laters
<ajmitch> for some definition of 'busted'
<Kyral> Squished/Fixed/Resolved
<ajmitch> yes, it's a bit of a non-fix :)
<Kyral> But it still closes the bug :D
<ajmitch> *facepalm*
<ajmitch> bye all, I'm going off to work
<Kyral> lol sorry
<lucas> hi
<ogra> hi lucas
<lucas> do you know if there is a summary of the thread swhere ?
<Kyral> Did I do something wrong there? ;P
<lucas> ogra, dholbach: you have some time for a chat about the way MOTU currently works ?
<lucas> I quite unsatisfied with some aspects of this
<ogra> tell me
<lucas> 1/ some MOTU teams deal with a lot of packages (eg: MOTURuby is supposed to). we need scripts to get a list of such packages
<lucas> for example, a small pkg-rdepends frontend script that would allow to easily get all packages which depend on libruby1.8
<ogra> feel free to write them... MOTU in geneal are 30-35 ppl
<ogra> we care for 17000 packages in universe...
<lucas> for both debian sid and dapper drake
<ogra> apt-cache rdepends libruby1.8 ??
<lucas> no such script planned for now ?
<lucas> basically that, yes
<ajmitch> those scripts are very simple to write
<ogra> we use the above... and ajmitch and dholbach write stuff if needed
<lucas> -r
* ajmitch has a small collection 
<lucas> mmh
<ogra> we have python-apt for such things
<ajmitch> which I'm putting together & going to make available online on tiber
* ajmitch doesn't use python-apt but his own insane ideas ;)
<lucas> why is apt-cache rdepends doing the opposite of apt-rdepends ? :-)
<ogra> dholbach uses python-apt
<lucas> but can't use a Packages file from debian
* ogra doesnt even know apt-rdepends
<lucas> it would be needed to monitor pkg additions in debian during freeze
* ajmitch does that already
<ogra> lucas, what ever is needed can be written.. nobody will stop you, if we arent smart enough to write stuff we always have main devs to ask for help
<ajmitch> main devs like ogra & dholbach ;)
<ogra> :p
<lucas> ogra: the point of this discussion is just to know whether this stuff exist or not
<lucas> I can write most of it, but it's useless if it's redundant
<ogra> lucas, we have some DDs in the team (like ajmitch )
<lucas> ajmitch: you do what ? monitor pkg additions ?
<ogra> also note that our automerge tools just pull in whats there
<lucas> ogra: not during freeze
<ogra> so a package new to debian will just sow up in ubuntu
<ajmitch> I monitor what version differences there are between ubuntu & debian
<lucas> ajmitch: is this info public somewhere ?
<ajmitch> what packages are in ubuntu & not debian, and in debian but not in ubuntu
<ogra> lucas, note also that all freezes apply to universe starting with this release
<ajmitch> somewhat public but not entirely accurate
<ogra> so after UVF you need a good reason to get something synced
<lucas> ogra: automatic import from debian was stopped mid-august. for example, feed2imap showed up in debian shortly after the freeze, but was only added to ubuntu breezy a few days before release
<ogra> dapper will have 3 years support, the schedule will reflect this
<ajmitch> lucas: that's expected
<ogra> lucas, that wont happen in dapper
<ajmitch> it was only added after someone tested & requested it
* ajmitch really has to go now :)
<ogra> oh, youre still not at work :)
<ogra> slacker !
<ogra> :)
<ogra> lucas, this release will get a lot harder wrt freezes and syncs
<lucas> seriously, I don't think there are enough people using ubuntu to be able to rely on them to know what is broken, what should be upgraded, etc
<ogra> what ?
<lucas> important stuff is broken in ruby in breezy
<lucas> and nobody noticed before the release
<ogra> there were 1.5 million warty CDs sent out, some million downloads at this time...
<ogra> lucas, the prob is that nobody of us is interested in ruby... thats a big lack in MOTU...
<lucas> why "nobody of us" ?
<ogra> we are urgently looking for people to help out here
<Kyral> What IS Ruby?
<lucas> I dont really see the point in MOTUs, actually. for ruby, debian is doing a good job
<ogra> i'm not interested in ruby programming many other MOTUs arent... some discovered rails and found it intresting during breezy development...
<lucas> and the most suitable policy would probably be to *always* import from debian
<ogra> thats not always possible
<ogra> do you know if ruby compiles with gcc4 ?
<ogra> debian doesnt use it ...
<ogra> err *didnt
<ogra> we have a totally different toolchain...
<ogra> since we are ahead of debian here...
<ogra> so we need to fix stuff that isnt broken there
<ogra> thats what MOTU mainly does ... apart from bringing in packages that arent in debian
<ogra> sorry, i just get dinner here ...
<lucas> ok
<lucas> so basically MOTU is only about doing boring redundant work because Ubuntu is too far from debian ?
<lucas> this doesn't sound right ;)
<ogra> thats not redundant work
<hubW> lucas: stop the troll
<lucas> (and only during freeze, since packages are automatically imported the rest of the time)
* Kyral pokes lucas
<ogra> ubuntu uses python2.4 everywhere for example.. we prepared everything for debian
<lucas> ok
<ogra> lucas, there are about 300 packages that require manual merging
<ogra> they wont get autosynced
<lucas> are there some cases where gcc4 provided bogus executables ?
<ogra> some ?
<lucas> for gcc4, couldn't you just have used a "it compiles => it works" rule for most packages in universe ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> we care for the quality of our packages
<ogra> so they need testing etc
<lucas> ok, but if you can't provide the testing, what do you choose ? old packages which have known bugs, or new packages which might have unknown bugs ?
<Kyral> yo Amaranth!
<Amaranth> hi
<Amaranth> on a 2.8Ghz machine running ubuntu in vmware is quite usable
<Amaranth> so now i can have ubuntu at school too :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I just SSH into my box from whereever I am on campus :D
<ogra> lucas, whatever works
<ogra> lucas, it depends on the scheule really
<lucas> ogra: I think the new packages option should be chosen given some criteria
<ogra> we have a lot criteria
<lucas> for example: new package in debian during freeze + no bugs in 10 days => upload
<ogra> but for dapper we'll be quite conservative
<Kyral> I think lucas is a Debian fanboy
<ogra> Kyral, there is nothing wrong with that
<lucas> Kyral: debian has much more educated users than Ubuntu
<Kyral> lucas: I take offense at that
<Kyral> ogra: Agreed
<Kyral> but there is a difference between being a Debian Fanboy and being an impolite Debian Fanboy ;P
<lucas> Kyral: by educated, I mean able to write a bug report when something breaks
<lucas> Kyral: not educated in general ;)
<Kyral> Okay, say that next time
<pietrus> may i ask a question about universe?
<Kyral> shoot!
<Kyral> It will be welcome :D
<lucas> Kyral: I would be interested in some stats about the number of distinct bug reporters in Debian and Ubuntu
<Kyral> lucas: I don't know how to write a good report
<ogra> lucas, make some
<Kyral> then again, I usually fix my own
<pietrus> are packages synced from sid to the "stable" ubuntu or just to the "next" ubuntu release?
<ogra> lucas, both BTS are public available
<ogra> pietrus, nope
<Kyral> I think he meant which one
<lucas> ogra: I usually write them on the debian BTS, I find it more efficient :-)
<ogra> pietrus, nothing is synced to the stable release
<Kyral> he said Sid to Ubuntu Stable
<ogra> lucas, if you want them solved in ubuntu thats silly
<Kyral> not Debian Stable ;P
<ogra> lucas, since bugfixes in debian can take very long
<lucas> ogra: I want them fixed in both, that's the problem
* ajmitch returns, @ work
<ogra> and we ususally only monitor our bugtrackers
<ogra> fine...
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't like submitting bugs to Debian because I have never been a Debian user really. Just Ubuntu
<ogra> we usually send the fixes upstream
<ogra> (which is either debin for us or really upstream)
<Kyral> pietrus, I believe that when the Universe for an Ubuntu Release opens, we sync from Sid, then when the release goes stable we send any bugfixes back to Sid
<lucas> ogra: nobody care for ubuntu's ruby packages anyway, so chances are higher the bug will be fixed by sending it to debian's bts
<Kyral> Did I get that right?
<pietrus> ogra: so, right now if there is a new package in debian it will only be available in dapper?
<ajmitch> lucas: and then we won't know that there's an issue in ubuntu
<ogra> lucas, we'll have a ruby team this release...
<ogra> pietrus, yup
<Kyral> pietrus, until the Backports Team gets to it
<pietrus> thanks ogra and Kyral
<zyga> ruby team :)
<lucas> ogra: you mean for main ? or for MOTU ?
<zyga> lucas: hi
<zyga> lucas: there are some ruby things coming
<ajmitch> lucas: MOTU
<lucas> hi zyga  :)
<ogra> lucas, ruby apps dot get to main, except there is a special demand
<zyga> lucas: new gnome-ruby release recently
<lucas> ajmitch: that's why I think you should rely more on debian
<ogra> lucas, if you want to make sure ruby in ubuntu rocks, join the force... if you dont care, go on filing bugs to debian BTS
<lucas> ogra,ajmitch: I'm already listed in the MOTURuby team
<ogra> we *will* make fixes debian doesnt accept we *will* make enhancements debian will accept after we released etc
<zyga> that reminds me
<ajmitch> we do rely on debian, but we can't blindly trust everything & sync on a whim
<zyga> I've got a bug pending
<zyga> I really  need to finish packaging and mark it as fixed
<ajmitch> especially after UVF
<zyga> ajmitch: UVF?
<ajmitch> and it's rather hard to subscribe to all the ruby bugs in debian to watch them
<lucas> ogra,ajmitch: my point is: I want to help, but I want it to be as efficient as possible, and the least redundant possible
<ajmitch> upstream version freeze
<ajmitch> file debian bug, a note in malone which just links to the debian bug
<ogra> lucas, the question is do you want to make ruby in debian rocking or in ubuntu ? they arent the same
<ajmitch> and hopefully the bug watch in malone will improve to a state where we can do version tracking & check status on one page
<lucas> ajmitch: you can subscribe to the ruby packages in the pts, it's easier
* ajmitch really needs to file wishlist bugs about that in malone
<ajmitch> lucas: I'm well aware of that
<ajmitch> but there's still a lot of random packages we could subscribe to
<lucas> ogra: that's the problem. they aren't the same, and if they get too different, it really sucks
<lucas> I don't care about fixes accepted in ubuntu but not in debian
* zyga likes to look at the issue here and now
<zyga> fix something if it's broken
<zyga> talk to people when you've got the chance
<ogra> lucas, but that happens all the time
<zyga> dont try to grab the big picture
<ajmitch> so you're saying that you don't care about ubuntu then
<ogra> yes
* Kyral runs to help on the forums and stay out of this
<lucas> no, that's not what I'm saying.
<ajmitch> Kyral: don't you want to join in our gentle discussion? :)
<ajmitch> we're even keeping it relatively flame-free :)
* zyga turns on bogon shield
<lucas> I say I'd like to be able to say : "Ubuntu really rocks because, for secondary packages for which they don't have time, they just trust debian."
* ogra tries to eat his dinner while typing
<Kyral> ajmitch, Its more so I don't go overboard ;P
<ogra> lucas, thats not a matter of trust
<ajmitch> lucas: as I said before, we cannot just blindly sync
<zyga> everyone: this is #ubuntu-motu
<ogra> lucas, in many areas we simply are ahead
<zyga> everyone: make ubuntu rock, debian can sync from us for a change
<ajmitch> eg when ruby is frozen in main, we cannot just sync it 2 days before release
<zyga> I don't run both debian and ubuntu, I just need one at a time, I focus on one
<lucas> ajmitch: ruby is not in main.
<ogra> lucas, so debian *cant* accept our changes before they are at the point
<lucas> ah, it is
<ajmitch>    ruby1.8 | 1.8.2-9ubuntu1 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/main Packages
<ogra> lucas, ruby is
<ajmitch>    ruby1.8 | 1.8.2-9ubuntu1 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/main Sources
<lucas> my mistake
<ogra> the apps arent
<ajmitch> if it weren't, we *could* have done more syncs before release
<ajmitch> but main gets frozen for a reason
<lucas> I don't speak about syncs 2 days before release
<ajmitch> and the debdiff to the newer ruby was ~4MB
<lucas> I'm speaking about syncs 2 weeks before release for example*$
<ogra> wont happen
<ajmitch> still, 2 weeks, deep into freeze, trying to make sure you don't break what already works?
<lucas> one of the problems with this topic is that you don't know ruby
<ajmitch> and you know it very well?
<lucas> the interpreter is extremly well unit tested. there are maybe at most 2 ruby releases per year.
<lucas> so, when a new version goes out, you can *really* trust it
<ogra> that doesnt matter if it arrives 2 weeks before release and breaks all depending apps
<zyga> lucas: the same thing could be said about gcc4
<ajmitch> so try & argue that with mdz
<zyga> then again ... it's wise to wait
<ogra> with a 6 month release schedule its not bad to ship an old version... you know you'll have the new one in 6 months
<pietrus> is there a java motu team?
<lucas> ogra: yes, and this sucks, because for 6 months, I'll have to add some workarounds in my software for ruby interpreter bugs
<lucas> because the version in ubuntu is ruby 1.8.2 + svn from ~ 06/2005 if I remember correctly
<Kyral> lucas then compile your own
<ogra> lucas, then help us :)
<Kyral> I didn't like Ubuntu's kernel setup so I compiled my own :D
<lucas> ogra: I'm going to
<zyga> torvalds said
<lucas> that's not the point :-)
<ogra> great :)
<zyga> code talks
<lucas> Kyral: you are not being helpful here
<Kyral> see this is why I left to the forums ;P
<ogra> lucas, the point is that i dont decide about release schedules or exceptions from it
<ogra> lucas, so arguing with me particulary wont gain you any ground :) i suffer as much as everyone else from it (i'm the guy who builds edubuntu, many changes couldnt get into my distro this release) but i also see the need for it
<ogra> we cant stabilize if we change the base 2 weeks before release
<ogra> because that briongs a transition of all packages that version depend on a package...
<ogra> or imagine the api changed with the last version change
<ogra> what we do now is to have official backports for such cses... but even here, if the api changed you are lost
* lucas writing a summary of his understanding of the situation
<lucas> Summary of my understanding of the situation, given the goal of having both Debian's and Ubuntu's Ruby packages well in shape :
<lucas> - Before UVF, I should report bugs to Debian. When a new package goes out, it is automatically imported into Ubuntu anyway.
<lucas> - After UVF and until reasonably before release (eg 1 month before release), I should report the bug to Debian, and ping on the Ubuntu's bugzilla when the new debian package goes out so Ubuntu can sync.
<lucas> - Closer to release, I should still report to Debian, and ask to backport either the package (if it only fixes this bug) or only the bugfix to Ubuntu. The second case is the only time when a different package has to be built for Ubuntu.
<ogra> two of your points are wrong...
<lucas> the last two ones ?
<ogra> if and only if the package was never touched, only then it gets autosynced before UVF
<ogra> else MOM (merge-o-matic) will just create a merge bug
<ogra> if you bilndly file bugs to debian but dont look into ubuntu, you wont gain anything
<lucas> ok, true
<ogra> after UVF you will need a very good reason to get it synced
<ajmitch> we're going to be even stricter about UVF for dapper
<ogra> additionally if you only focus on debian, you will miss the real bugs that count for ubuntu and that are filed by ubuntu users in the ubuntu BTS
<ogra> your third point simply doesnt exist... we only backport from one ubuntu release to another
<lucas> how high are the chances that a bug which is both in debian and ubuntu is reported only in ubuntu ?
<ogra> s before one release is out you can only wait for the next
<ogra> very high
<ogra> i dont know how high with ruby but we had a lot of bugs we forwarded to debian during breezy<
<lucas> in the third point, by "backport", I mean "sync", if you prefer. I don't mean ubuntu-backports
<ogra> malone will change the handling of bugs completely anyway
<ogra> i meant ubuntu-backports with backports
<ogra> from UVF on its very likely that you only backport bugfixes ...
<lucas> [backports]  I know, that's why I'm clarifying
<ogra> if a sync or rather a backport of a fix is feasable is decided by Kamion or mdz...
<lucas> I'm thinking of replacing package v. x.y-z from debian by package v. x.y-(z+1) from debian after reading the changelog
<ogra> yes thats possible, but you need to explain why and the debdiff will be inspected
<ogra> if its to big or to intrusive, you will have to work on it
<lucas> of course, I understand that
<ogra> from this point on you changed the package...
<ogra> next release it wont get autosynced
<ogra> thats why we exist...
<lucas> ogra: ok, but when next release happen, you can switch back to the debian package
<tseng> no you cant
<ogra> ..and why we need every manpower we can get
<lucas> (changes are high that you can)
<lucas> why ?
<tseng> chances are definate that its a manual process
<ogra> lucas, meet tseng ... without him mono in debian would suck a lot
* tseng waves
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<lucas> hi tseng
<tseng> we share stuff back and forth with ubuntu and debian alot
<ogra> lucas, a good example where ubuntu brought god stuff to debian
<tseng> but in ubuntu if there is a new debian package and i made a change..
<tseng> it doesnt grab it
<tseng> one of us needs to merge the changes
<tseng> slomo is doing that right now for dapper
<Nafallo> hi god tseng :-)
<ajmitch> in some cases we are the debian maintainers
<tseng> i guess i own blam now
* ogra thinks that was a godlike typo :)
<ajmitch> tseng: yay
<lucas> ok, but that's not what I'm talking about
<lucas> please don't over-generalize
<tseng> thats what you are saying
* ajmitch is going to move f-spot to non-group
<Nafallo> ogra: so tseng is not god-stuff? :-)
<tseng> what you are thinking
<tseng> who knows
<ogra> lucas, you said we should simply take debians packages
<tseng> Nafallo: nope.
* Nafallo almost gets a bit disappointed :-P
<ogra> lucas, but often we make fixes that debian needs, tseng's work is a very good example
<tseng> yay
<ajmitch> eg gtk# fix for f-spot, we did that first :)
<ogra> lucas, and i hear users shouting that the ruby packaging of debian sucks a lot since warty
* lucas writing example offline
<lucas> 1 min :)
<ogra> lucas, i heard that even from upstream... there are threads on ubuntu-users, read them
<lucas> ogra: define upstream ?
<ogra> ruby core developer... not packagesr
<lucas> who particularly ?
<ogra> lucas, read the threads... its quite some time ago
<lucas> debian packaging of ruby used to suck
<ogra> no idea anymore
<lucas> because sone decided to split stdlib in a lot of small packages
<ogra> might have been last year
<lucas> for example, the xml parser is in stdlib, but wasn't installed when you just installed "ruby" in Debian
<zyga> OTOH
<lucas> some core ruby devs seem to have something against debian since then
* zyga is really annoyed by the amount of crap many packages install
<ogra> yup and they asked fro repackaging in ubuntu...
<zyga> I'm talking about inner package crap like useless files and 'useful' INSTALL files
<lucas> ogra: anyway, it's not the case anymore in Debian
<ogra> fine
<lucas> (it wasn't in sarge, but it might be in warty)
<lucas> not sure about the exact dates here
<lucas> Now what's wrong with this timeline ?
<lucas> t0: package v. x.y-z is the same as in Debian, we are in UVF, and there's a bug.
<lucas> t1: Debian uploads package v. x.y-(z+1)
<lucas> t2: We can't sync the whole package, so we just upload package v. x.y-zubuntu1. We release Ubuntu with this version.
<lucas> For the next Ubuntu release, we can switch back to v. x.y-(z+1), since our changes are in Debian already.
* lucas is typing very fast :-)
<ajmitch> UVF applies to the x.y part
<ajmitch> because that's the upstream version
<lucas> ah I thought upstream means Debian
<ajmitch> the package is still frozen in ubuntu, but we can make changes to z
<ogra> upstream means x.y
<lucas> ok, so the solution is better than I thought
<lucas> let me fix my example then
<ogra> upstream *version*
<lucas> well, "upstream version" could be "real upstream version" or "debian version" :)
<lucas> it's ambiguous
<ogra> the size of your fixes must drop with the amount of time thats gone in the release schedule
<lucas> Now what's wrong with this timeline (version 1ubuntu1 ;) ?
<lucas> t0: package v. x.y-z is the same as in Debian, we are in UVF, and there's a bug.
<lucas> t1: Debian uploads package v. x.(y+1)-1 which fixes the bug
<lucas> t2: We aren't allow to sync the whole package, so we just upload package v. x.y-zubuntu1. We release Ubuntu with this version.
<lucas> For the next Ubuntu release, we can switch back to v. x.(y+1)-whatever, since our changes are in Debian already.
<tseng> sigh
<tseng> we have certainly figured this out by now
<tseng> after 3 releases
<tseng> 2 with the full motu
<tseng> but diff isnt smart enough to make this just happen
<tseng> you need human intervention in every case
<lucas> tseng: ogra said this situation requires a lot of manpower, since locally modified packages won't get auto-imported. I don't see why, since we can switch back to the debian package in the next release
<tseng> Merge O Matic gives you what it thinks the ubuntu and debian versions merged should look like
<tseng> thats all
<tseng> no you cant
<tseng> can we please go from perfect fantasy to real world examples?
<tseng> i will give you one
<tseng> lets see how blam looks
<tseng> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/blam/
<tseng> here is the merge between (1.8.0-1 -> 1.8.0-1ubuntu2)
<tseng> then blam_debian.patch  -- changes in Debian (1.8.0-1 -> 1.8.2-2)
<lucas> tseng: I knew about that. but this requires manpower *once*, to check if the debian package includes the ubuntu fix
<tseng> yes
<lucas> if it includes it, the version number can be changed to the debian one
<tseng> once every time there is a change
<tseng> and then debian includes it
<tseng> very good work.
<tseng> no dude comeon
<tseng> back to the real world
<tseng> blam
<lucas> tseng: please don't be offensive like that
<tseng> i have to change the build deps every time
<tseng> same thing for 100s of python stuff we updated to 2.4
<tseng> or xorg transition
<Nafallo> dbus...
<tseng> there is a TON of packages that will not transition cleanly like you presume
<lucas> tseng: that's not the kind of packages I'm talking about
<tseng> who decides what kind of package it is
<zyga> where did wine for breezy go?
<zyga> it's not in any archive
<zyga> it *is* listed in packages.u.c
<tseng> zyga: Filename: pool/universe/w/wine/wine_0.0.20050725-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<tseng> its right there
<zyga> hmm.....
<zyga> okay, official archive has it
<zyga> but my mirror does not, strange
<zyga> pl.archive.ubuntu.com
<lucas> ruby in ubuntu currently sucks, because there are lots of old packages with bugs in them. I'd like to help to get them back in shape, I have little time, and I am not interested in working on stuff like version changes ahead of debian
<zyga> tseng: can you apt-get it?
<tseng> im sure i can
<zyga> root@falcon:~# LANG=C apt-get install wine
<zyga> Reading package lists... Done
<zyga> Building dependency tree... Done
<zyga> Package wine is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<zyga> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<zyga> is only available from another source
<zyga> E: Package wine has no installation candidate
<tseng> sigh
<lucas> tseng: you confirm that if my change was only a pre-release bugfix, for the next ubuntu release, we can go back to the debian version after *one* manual intervention ?
<tseng> its not on your mirror
<zyga> tseng: I've switched to archve.u.c
<tseng> lucas: one manual intervention per ubuntu modified package.. yes
<lucas> ok, thanks
<lucas> that's all I wanted to know
<zyga> tseng: which archives are you using?
<lucas> thanks, I think I'll try to write a summary of how I see the way we (MOTURuby) should maintain ruby pkgs in ubuntu
<tseng> archive.ubuntu.com
<lucas> zyga: you problem is not a mirror problem
<zyga> ...
<lucas> do you have universe enabled ?
<zyga> yes
<tseng> it would be nicer to fix debian
<zyga> aaahhh
* zyga knows what the problem was
<tseng> but writing doesnt hurt anything
<lucas> the fact that it's in pool doesn't mean that it's in your Packages file
<zyga> I had apt/preferences
<zyga> with wine from official wine repo
<zyga> everything is okay now
<lucas> tseng: debian ruby packaging works well, and there's a lot of manpower
<tseng> then whats the problem
<lucas> tseng: wait for my summary :-)
<tseng> btw why is ruby-snmp unusuabl out of the box
* zyga bought an old windows app and hopes to run it without installing even older win95 I've also bought years ago, thanks tseng 
<lucas> tseng: you mean libsnmp-ruby ?
<tseng> +1.8, yes
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-26
<tseng> the mib path is set wrong
<lucas> have you filed a bug ?
<tseng> no, BTS makes my bloodpressure go up
<tseng> when is a web interface not a web interface?
<lucas> tseng: there's no such bug in debian. it would be great if you could file one
<tseng> yes im aware, i searched for it
<tseng> there are actually no bugs for libsnmp-ruby last i checked
<lucas> then don't expect this to get fixed :-)
<tseng> which is funny because its relatively useless with the bug
<lucas> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330196
<lucas> there's this bug
<tseng> yes that
<lucas> seems this package is in bad shape
<lucas> ah ok
<tseng> very good.
<lucas> see, the bug is in debian's BTS, not ubuntu's
<tseng> uh
<lucas> an example of my theory about ubuntu users being less prone to file bug reports
<tseng> which is obviously where i looked for it
<tseng> i file bugs to gnome
<tseng> debian bugtracker is not usable
<lucas> you can submit by mail
<lucas> if your MUA allows to change some headers
<tseng> *I* cant be arsed to submit debian bugs
<tseng> its no wonder no one else can
<lucas> anyway
<lucas> if this bug report is the same bug as yours, and you have more info, just mail xxxxxx@bugs.debian.org
<tseng> id rather make a patch
<tseng> and give it to you
<ajmitch> yay, another bddebian
<lucas> the previous version worked
<lucas> so It's probably just a packaging bug
<lucas> I'll ping the maintainer
<tseng> you can ping him with a patch
<tseng>  /usr/share/doc/libsnmp-ruby1.8/yaml/ is the right path
<tseng> 2 minutes
<dholbach> good night guys
<lucas> tseng: ok
<lucas> re
<lucas> sorry
<lucas> killed X by mistake :-)
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<lucas> tseng: you have a patch or a better analysis of the bug ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/snmp-ruby-path.diff
<tseng> the debian package insists on diverting the mibs
<lucas> is this url stable, or should I copy the patch ?
<tseng> its stable
<tseng> thanks for having a look
<lucas> np
<tseng> i will mail it to the bts
<lucas> ok, as you want
<lucas> just mail 330196@bugs.debian.org
<tseng> sent
<lucas> ok
<lucas> the mail queue is processed every 15 minutes I think
<lucas> you'll receive a confirmation that your info was received
<tseng> exciting
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> poor tseng
<lucas> tsss
<Kyral> OMG I <3 Beagle
<lucas> good night
<bddebian2> Heya LaserJock
<Kyral> Anyone know how often Beagle re-indexes?
<tseng> good, its there
<tseng> Kyral: um
<tseng> Kyral: constantly
<tseng> it uses inotify to find out when files change
<Kyral> I mean I love this thing, but I typed in "int main()" and it didn't pick up on a file
<whiprush> Kyral: you'll know it's working when your system starts to swap. ;p
<Kyral> SYSTEM i686 Ubuntu (Debian) GNU/Linux, Kernel 2.6.13.4-GNUGenerationCustom, LIBC 2.3.5, GNU Bash Shell | CPU AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2700+, 2167Mhz, 256KB Cache, 4339 BMIPs | MEM 250/500MB RAM Used, 2/1333MB Swap Used | STORAGE 4.7GB ReiserFS, 6.5GB Ext3, 9.4GB ReiserFS, 10MB TmpFS, 154GB ReiserFS, 251MB TmpFS, 266GB ReiserFS, 603MB ISO9660 | STATS Uptime 1.19d, Users 1(1), Procs 88(51797), Load 0.20 | X11 1280x1024x24bit | http://auk
<Kyral> what swapping ;P
<LaserJock> bddebian2: I got my gpg key signed yesterday. I was quite excited because there were only 2 people in my area that were in the strong set (according to biglumber)
<bddebian2> Nice
<Kyral> No one has signed my key
<Kyral> I hope to change that at UBZ ;P
<LaserJock> Kyral: that would be the place :)
<LaserJock> I'm not going to UBZ unfortunately
<Nafallo> I went to visit Mithrandir and got my key signed, that was the last argument for making me a member and MOTU really ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<Nafallo> was really fun :-). I still miss Norway.
* ajmitch got his key signed by the debian gnu/hurd cd packager ;)
<Kyral> Hey mitch will you sign my key at UBZ?
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> you've got a chance if you bring government-issued photo ID
<Kyral> Does a Learners Permit count?
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> I can't really say, not having seen one :P
<Kyral> Think Trainee Drivers License
<Kyral> (Yes I'm 20 and I don't have a Drivers License)
* ajmitch is 23 & doesn't have one :P
<ajmitch> but that's mainly because I live < 10 min walk from work
<lifeless> Kyral: does it have a photo? is it government issued? does it have name, dob ?
<tseng> his name is andrew btw
<Kyral> Yah. It says in BIG letters "NEW YORK STATE" at the top ;P
<ajmitch> tseng: I'm used to it by now
<Kyral> damn thats an old pic. No wonder, it was issued in 02
<ajmitch> Kyral: http://librarian.launchpad.net/942825/942858/vm.debdiff has wrong version
<Kyral> I gotta get a new one next year it seems ;P
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> should be -4ubuntu1
<ajmitch> not -5
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> I'll redo it
<ajmitch> thanks
<Kyral> Means I'll have to redownload the sourcecode and redo the patch...
<tseng> does it?
<Kyral> I
<tseng> fix the changelog
<Kyral> yah I tend to delete source packages when I'm done
<tseng> oh good one
<Kyral> unless they are my personal projects
<Kyral> I'm trying to remember if I got that from Sid or not...
<ajmitch> bbl, lunchtime
<Kyral> Well, it looks like it doesn't matter
<Kyral> Sid has a new version anyway
<Kyral> Should I patch the Breezy version or the Sid version...
<Kyral> aww hell I'll patch both and ask mitch which I should upload
<Kyral> hey \sh
<\sh> re
<Kyral> Looks like I made a versioning blunder on one of my patchs :/
<Kyral> fixed...man don't I feel like an idiot
<LaserJock> Kyral: well look at it this way, what if it had gotten uploaded to main or something. I could have been worse
<Kyral> good point
<LaserJock> does anybody know what happens to subscriptions when a wikipage is renamed?
<sivang> LaserJock: interesting quesiton
<LaserJock> I was wanting to rename some MOTU wikipages but I don't want to destroy subscriptions that are already in place
<Kyral> hey sivang
<Kyral> Okay homework time...
<sivang> hey Kyral !
<sivang> Kyral: how is it going?
<Kyral> Calc2 Homework....
<Kyral> I'll tell you after I finish
<LaserJock> calc2, I think I disliked that more than calc1 or calc3
<LaserJock> In fact I don't think I liked it much at all ;-)
<LaserJock> of course I'm a chemist so that's not a big suprise
<crimsun> what about physics?
<crimsun> did you love that?
<LaserJock> yeah, physics was better
<crimsun> figures. pchem is a good one with lots of yummy math.
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I'm a pchemist so I had to do the math
<crimsun> rockin'
<LaserJock> I'm in my 4th year of my Phd and I can't remember much of calc2
<LaserJock> but it wasn't pretty
<crimsun> we just approximate anyhow :p
<LaserJock> no kidding
<LaserJock> I sometimes wonder why I had to do all the math classes when all I ever do is an approximation ;-)
<crimsun> :-)
<\sh> k..good night...#
<LaserJock> Quantum, now there is some wierd stuff
<LaserJock> student:"hmm, all I am getting is imaginary numbers."   Prof: "just square it and it becomes real."
<crimsun> haha
<LaserJock> that's why I just stick to my lasers and let the physicists handle the "real" math
<Trashcan>  connection problems solved :)
<Trashcan> sorry for the 200 or so join/quits earlier
<LaserJock> great, that was definately interesting
<LaserJock> I thought your computer had ADD or something
<Trashcan> hehe
<Trashcan> must have been my ISP. Everything was going haywire :(
<LaserJock> gotta go home, cya all
<lucas> hi
<lucas> tseng: still here ?
<lucas> ogra: here ?
<Diablo_D3> hey all
<Diablo_D3> does kubuntu have its own channel by any chance?
<koke> Diablo_D3: #kubuntu
<Diablo_D3> this might be interesting for people in here too: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kdegraphics/+bug/3437
<Kyral> Calc SUCKS
<TiMiDo> hey people
<LaserJock> hi
<TiMiDo> wuz up LaserJock
<LaserJock> not much, homework mostly
<LaserJock> TiMiDo: how about you?
<TiMiDo> here, dude looking at bugs, and writting some codes,
<TiMiDo> and i want to be a motu (:
<LaserJock> same here pretty much
<TiMiDo> oh nice
<LaserJock> are you an Ubuntu member yet?
<TiMiDo> not really are you?
<Kyral> I'm trying for it :D
<TiMiDo> interesting
<LaserJock> no, not yet
<TiMiDo> oh
<TiMiDo> what you're doing for ubuntu LaserJock?
<Kyral> Most of my involvement has come through UbuntuForums....
<TiMiDo> oh nice
<LaserJock> well, right now I am working on the MOTU wiki and I have been trying to do bugfixes and
<LaserJock> I did some on the FTBFS and UniverseUnmetDeps
<TiMiDo> oh nice,
<Kyral> why the heck is SourceForge being slow?
<tseng> this shoudl come as no suprise
<LaserJock> TiMiDo: are you documenting your work on the wiki?
<Kyral> dangit, dholbach got to the Deskbar Applet...I thought I was gonna have an easy compile
<LaserJock> Kyral: all the easy ones are taken ;-)
<Kyral> NOW you tell me
<LaserJock> well, I don't know, but that is what I would assume
<LaserJock> since that is the way it works in life
<Kyral> Hey if something I think should be in Universe already has a debpack, what should I do?
<LaserJock> but it isn't in Debian?
<Kyral> nope, isn't in Debian
<Kyral> Author made the Debpack themselves
<LaserJock> source?
<Kyral> Its available
<LaserJock> I mean a debian source package
<Kyral> nope
<Kyral> its a debpack or a source tarball
<LaserJock> well, I suppose you could make a debian source from the tarball or ask the author for it but I don't think just the binary .deb is going to do
<Kyral> No prob
<LaserJock> I don't know though, any MOTU around
<Kyral> this should be easy :D
<Kyral> Thing is a frontend to Deborphan :D
<Kyral> Which I love :D
<LaserJock> cool
<crimsun> ask the author for the diff.gz
<crimsun> you obviously have access to the orig.tar.gz, since you have access to the source tarball :-)
<Kyral> Can't I just build it myself?
<ajmitch> if you really really want
<ajmitch> but it's duplication of effort
<Kyral> It'll feel good to see a clean compile for once ;P
<ajmitch> yeah, and packaging does help you learn
<ajmitch> I think my record is 10 min from grabbing the source tarball to having a package ready for upload
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> nice :D
<ajmitch> and in the archive < 1 hour later
<LaserJock> wow, that seems fast
<ajmitch> it was a simple package
<ajmitch> and I've seen so many packages now
* ajmitch has to get it into debian, still
<ajmitch> maybe I should do that this weekend
<Kyral> Whoa, this is going to force a new version of DebOrphan into Ubuntu...
<ajmitch> well we're going to get the latest from sid anyway
<Kyral> okay, so its not a problem then I take it?
<ajmitch> not particularly
<Kyral> okay
<ajmitch> as soon as dapper is open & autosyncs begin, it's open season for us
<Kyral> I can't wait
<ajmitch> neither can we :P
<ajmitch> at least I can still upload ;)
<LaserJock> kyral: is the new version of deborphan you need the one in Debian sid or is it newer?
<ajmitch> the debian version should be the only version :)
<ajmitch> since 1.7.18 is in sid
<LaserJock> ajmitch: oh, ok. I didn't know but I though that might be an issue
* ajmitch might do some uploads tonight to relieve stress :)
<Kyral> and testing is 1.7.18
<ajmitch> testing is 1.7.17
<ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/deborphan.html
<Kyral> whooops
<ajmitch> unless that page is behind again
<Kyral> I meant that ;P
<ajmitch> which is quite possible :)
<ajmitch> sigh
<Kyral> So what is the version number on this one?
<ajmitch> I think I've got about 10 packages of my own to get uploaded into sid
<ajmitch> and countless others to sponsor
* ajmitch has fallen behind in the last few weeks
<Kyral> well if this PBuild works and it passes Lintian and Linda then it should be ready for upload tonight :D
<ajmitch> you hope ;)
<Kyral> Yah, I hope
<Kyral> how do I get rid of the "build-depends-without-arch-dep" error?
<ajmitch> is the package Architecture: all ?
<ajmitch> or arch: any?
<Kyral> all
<ajmitch> Build-Depends-Indep then
<Kyral> Ah thanks
<Kyral> that only leaves two more warnings from Lintain
<Kyral> changelog-should-mention-nmu
<ajmitch> ignore the NMU warning
<Kyral> and
<ajmitch> it's a debianism
<Kyral> source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 0.1.0-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> though you should make sure that Maintainer is set properly in debian/control
<Kyral> I believe it is
<Kyral> wait...dangit I put an extra space between my name and my email
<ajmitch> :)
<Kyral> Lintain checks out, Linda checks out
<ajmitch> now to see if it gets past the MOTU review
* ajmitch gets out the knives
<Kyral> If it doesn't I'll just fix it until it does :D
<Kyral> Its not like I've been doing this for months
<ajmitch> hehe
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/osx1y737.html <--ugly, ugly python code
<Kyral> Uploaded to REVU
<Kyral> have fun blasting it apart ajmitch ;P
* ajmitch waits for it to trickle through to revu
<hub> I didn't follow
<hub> that dapper drake been open?
<hub> s/that/has/
<hub> I'll have a lot of time now
<Amaranth> #ubuntu-devel says the topic will change when dapper opens
<Amaranth> so i guess not
<hub> ah well
<hub> thanks
<tritium> I can't find irc logs of the meeting from the 18th
<tritium> there's no -meeting log for that day, and the -motu log is empty on people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<Lathiat> i think someone is running a logbot
<Lathiat> fabbione or something
<Lathiat> ah
<tritium> yeah, thanks, but I think something's wrong with it
<Lathiat> annoy fabbione i guess :)
<tritium> heh
* ajmitch is going to write up the minutes this weekend
<ajmitch> and I've got my own log
<tritium> Oh, thanks, ajmitch.  I could not attend.  I'm on business travel, and had a dinner meeting.
<ajmitch> understandable :)
<tritium> :)
<minghua> just a quick question - is REVU for NEW universe packages only, or all universe packages?
<crimsun> NEW
<minghua> crimsun: oh, thanks.  I just see my debian package on REVU list, thus the question
<minghua> the package in question is scim.  freeflying, you may want to know this
<ajmitch> people have been using it for posting fixes as well as NEW
<crimsun> yeah, I've been recommending it as a stop-gap until dapper opens, too
<minghua> ajmitch: oh I see, that makes sense
<crimsun> geez, OOo2 final out yesterday, and already people asking for it
<minghua> I used bugzilla (during the c++ transition) for fix though, never played with REVU :-)
<minghua> I really should apply for a uploader on REVU
<minghua> if only for my own packages
<Trashcan> i'm still connected! hurrah!
<Trashcan> oh great.. look what i did >:(
<pef> hello
<Burgundavia> \sh_away, fix your blog link please, you are spamming planet every few days
<lucas> hi
<lucas> hi
<zyga> hello lucas
<lucas> I'm interested in feedback about "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<lucas> it's basically my conclusions after yesterday's discussion here
<zyga> checking
<ajmitch> lucas: at UVF, nothing new is automatically imported
<ajmitch> not just new upstream
<lucas> ah
<lucas> somebody said yesterday that if x.y-(z+1) releases, it gets imported
<ajmitch> so if we have 1.2.3-1, debian has 1.2.3-9, we still have to ask for a manual sync, but it doesn't require a freeze exception
<tseng> z.y = allowed
<tseng> not imported
<zyga> lucas: what about packages in ubuntu, not in debian
<lucas> zyga: I think the main goal here is improve free software in general, and debian-based distributions in particular
<lucas> having packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time
<tseng> you are spending more time talking about merges and syncs
<tseng> than you are about ruby
<zyga> lucas: okay so I've packaged alexandria and a lib it requires that is not in debian yet
<tseng> every motu has to deal with these issues, its not specific to ruby team
* zyga does not know any debian ruby team
<lucas> zyga: mail to pkg-ruby-extra@alioth.debian.org
<lucas> tseng: I know
<zyga> lucas: mail the source package?
<lucas> zyga: a link to them
<ajmitch> lucas: so don't stick it on a page that noone will see
<zyga> lucas: since those are my first packages I'd prefer that someone user friendly first has a look
<tseng> ajmitch: is there a breezy-changes alike for debian
<lucas> from the top of the part:
<ajmitch> tseng: hell yes
<ajmitch> tseng: you get flooded
<lucas> "By Lucas, feel free to edit or send comments. I put this here, *it might go elsewhere, but I dunno where.
<zyga> I still don't have a pbuilder around and I'm generally unsure about the quality
<lucas> tseng, ajmitch: I'm tired of your angry comments.
<tseng> i am not angry, i am critical
<ajmitch> haha
<lucas> I chose to put it there because I thought people could complain if I put it elsewhere
<tseng> there is a large difference
<ajmitch> you think that was angry? ;)
<ajmitch> tseng: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.changes.unstable/
<lucas> then, people complain because I put it on MOTURuby
<lucas> zyga: try #debian-ruby@freenode
<lucas> or more specifically paulvt@debian.org, who is my sponsor
<tseng> MOTURuby could use a popcon sorted list
<tseng> or as a subpage
<tseng> certainly useful to any group of packages of that size
<lucas> tseng: there's a list higher in the page with the command I used to generate it
<tseng> yes, i am refering to it
<lucas> ah, yes
<lucas> we should create a motutools package
<lucas> with all those scripts
<lucas> however, the problem with that is that if ruby people do it, it will be in ruby, not python
<ajmitch> majority of my scripts are bash, actually
<lucas> the version comparison script might not be trivial to write in bash
<lucas> if you want to parse the Packages file to get the versions
<ajmitch> dpkg --compare-versions
<lucas> ajmitch: no
<lucas> I meant a list with 2 columns : version in debian, version in ubuntu
<lucas> with colors etc
<ajmitch> my output isn't pretty, but it works
<lucas> how do you get the version in Debian from Ubuntu ?
<ajmitch> by using the debian package list
<lucas> you mean the Packages file ?
<koke> iirc, there was some chat about that on last meeting
<ajmitch> I could have done it using python-apt, but I found it just as easy to do it myself
<ajmitch> koke: yeah
<koke> it's not specific to ruby
<ajmitch> I think I was talking about it as well
* ajmitch did it in python
<ajmitch> but I could have done it with a shell script
<koke> I think ruby team should worry about the BIG thing with Ruby nowadays
<koke> how to handle rubygems
<lucas> koke: there is a lot of work on this area in pkg-ruby-extra
<lucas> (a debian team)
<ajmitch> lucas: are you in the debian team?
<lucas> yes
<lucas> (sort of)
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> sort of?
<Lathiat> man
<Lathiat> my laptop cant run quake4 :(
<zyga> Lathiat: :D
<Lathiat> just tried it, chugs like a mofo
<Lathiat> probably the ram
<lucas> pkg-ruby-extra is still being created
<Lathiat> only 256M in this
<zyga> Lathiat: where did you get quake4 packs
<koke> lucas: then they should advertise that more on the website
<koke> :)
<Lathiat> zyga: somewhere? ;p
<lucas> koke: it's not public yet
<lucas> koke: there a common position
<lucas> but we'll try to get wider acceptance of it
<zyga> Lathiat: cannot remember, eh ;-)
<koke> lucas: where can I read something more about that? lists archives mybe?
<Lathiat> zyga: yeh i must have bougth it last week ;p
<zyga> Q4 is out already?
<lucas> koke: 1 min
<koke> http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGems
<koke> :)
<lucas> more http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?RubyGemsProposal
<lucas> RubyGems is more like the discussion page. RubyGemsProposal is the summary
<lucas> why don't we get an ubuntu-motu mailing list ?
<crimsun> issue raised and rejected already
<lucas> I can't find the time to follow ubuntu-devel
* ajmitch find ubuntu-devel to be a rather quiet list
<crimsun> yeah, compared to debian-* it's pretty tame
<ajmitch> maybe that's because I have > 2000 unread on debian-devel
<lucas> that's not the problem
* lucas has better things to do than trying to find what's relevant for his issues ;)
<koke> ajmitch: or maybe becasu ubuntu-devel folder is quite close to breezy-changes one ;9
<ajmitch> breezy-changes was easy to read through ;)
<ajmitch> mark all as read..
<koke> :D
<tseng> exactly
<lucas> ajmitch: if I want to move the "Thoughts about management of packages in universe" to somewhere else
<tseng> until something broke
<tseng> and you wondered who to blame
<lucas> where should I move it ?
<ajmitch> lucas: you could put it on a new wiki page if you want, and link to it from a MOTU page
<ajmitch> I don't know where you might want it
<lucas> mmh
<lucas> I'll discuss this with ogra and dholback
<lucas> dholbach
<ogra> <lucas> having packages in ubuntu but not in debian sucks, and should only happen for very short period of time
<ogra> ??
<ogra> if we want something in, we'll package it...
<ogra> if debian doesnt adopt it, thats not our prob
<lucas> please #include <context>
<lucas> anyway
<lucas> forget about this
* zyga now understands gems
<lucas> zyga: the wiki page was helpful ?
<ogra> our main goal is to improve ubuntu, not "debian based distros"
<zyga> lucas: quite
<zyga> lucas: seems a little like appdirs but more convulse
<zyga> the worst worst thing is require_gem
<ogra> its totally up to debian if it wants packages we packaged
<zyga> it's like m$ office install on demand thing
<lucas> ogra: is this the official point of view of ubuntu ?
<ogra> yes
<lucas> ok
<zyga> it has its uses but is very difficult to join with debian packaging system
<ogra> lucas, all we can do is offer,if debian takes it its fine
<zyga> anyone: can require_gem be hacked to invoke external command?
<zyga> anyone: so require_gem foo will apt-get install foo-rubygem
<ogra> lucas, but we cant force anyone
<lucas> ogra: agreed.
<koke> zyga: but that needs privilieges
<ogra> so there will always be an amount of packages we have only in ubuntu
<zyga> koke: eh, true
<zyga> koke: OTOH
<ogra> and this amount rises with every release, you cant do anything aginst it
<zyga> gksudo apt-get install ... ?
<ajmitch> hi ogra :)
<lucas> ogra: yes, but it would be better to keep it low
<zyga> and hack gksudo to provide optional explaination box :)
<koke> zyga: what if no X? :)
<zyga> koke: then sensible-sudo
<ogra> lucas, why ? if there is a user demand, i'll happily package everything...
<zyga> I know it doesn't exist
<ogra> its up to debian if it is kept low, not up to us
<zyga> eh :)
<lucas> ogra: if there's a user demand, it's strange there isn't the same user demand in debian
<zyga> this is a minefield
<koke> zyga: an option could be to include the name of the package and instructions to install it in the genereated exception message
<ajmitch> lucas: our responsibilities as a community are to our users, not just to debian
<ogra> lucas, thats debians prob then
<koke> I wouldn't touch more than that
<ajmitch> lucas: although individuals are welcome & encouraged to get things into debian if they wish
<koke> zyga: and worst... if there's no terminal ??
<ogra> our responsibilitys are only in ubuntu... the responsibilitys for debian are for DDs
<koke> think in... mod_ruby or cgis
<zyga> koke: okay there is no way this can work ;-)
<koke> :D
<ajmitch> which quite a few people do - they learn packaging here, get things packaged in ubuntu, and then choose to get the packages into debian
<zyga> dpkg is unable to install stuff as user
<zyga> and it's not going to be really
<lucas> koke,zyga: rubygems is broken by design. hacking it in broken ways is not a good idea
<zyga> lucas: I don't concider that broken, just very very different
<koke> lucas: what's wrong in it
<zyga> I'd love to have install on demand in linux that works
<lucas> zyga: mixing packaging with source code is broken
<koke> I don't like gems too, but I think is just a different aproach
<zyga> and other things that exist on other platforms
<koke> more like rpm
<ogra> indeed every package debian adopts makes our workload lower, but we're not having the target to improve all debian based distros, as progeny doesnt have it or knoppix or linspire
<zyga> koke: like rpm?!!
<lucas> koke: no, rpm packagers have raised exactly the same issues
<zyga> a pure-ruby distro could use gems I guess
<zyga> but then again thats irrelevant to us
<lucas> zyga: exactly
<zyga> how does ruby locate gems at runtime
<zyga> hardcoded gems directory?
<koke> I just meant the gem command reminds me to the rpm command :)
<lucas> zyga: it doesn't
* ajmitch likes to have all his packages in both ubuntu & debian :)
<lucas> the require_gem command does
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> so how does it look stuff up?
<zyga> and another question, can gems contain non-ruby code?
<lucas> ogra: I like ajmitch's POV, I think yours is a bit egoist. anyway, it's not important here
<ajmitch> lucas: my POV is biased as well since I'm a DD
<zyga> I agree with ogra
<zyga> because:
<ajmitch> and so I can upload to both distros
<zyga> 1) if we get it right debian adopts it
<zyga> 2) if we get it wrong there is no point in trying to force it
<lucas> zyga: all gems install in the same place, so it's easy to find packages
<zyga> lucas: so, hardcoded
<ajmitch> I spent a long time working on debian that I'm not going to just abandon now
<ogra> lucas, why is it egoistic, i work for ubuntu and not for debian... no other distro has the focus to "improve all debian based distros"
<zyga> ogra: heh, apart from...debian
<ogra> yes
<zyga> anyway let's drop debian + ubuntu issue now
<zyga> let's think of a way to make this work
<zyga> lucas: can gems contain non-ruby code?
<koke> yes, afaik
<ogra> lucas, but we do a lot more than other distros, linspire doesnt feed back anything for example... xandros as well... so its a bit mean to say i'm egoistic
<zyga> okay is there any way to package non-ruby parts without the ruby parts?
<lucas> zyga: gems can contain non-ruby code, they get compiled on install-time, so it requires a compiler
<zyga> lucas: that's a no option IMHO
<lucas> ogra: I was asked to contribute to MOTURuby, not the ruby team in linspire
<zyga> compiling sucks, this is not gentoo
<lucas> ogra: I prefer to contribute to project who want to improve free software as a whole
<zyga> ogra, lucas: please stop arguing this is not helping to find the right thing to do
<lucas> ogra: not just distribution #123
<ogra> lucas, but you say that if i want to improve the distro i put work in that is egoistic
<zyga> say guys, maybe some clubs to start bashing each other on the head?
* ajmitch knows that ogra puts in a *lot* of hard work to improve ubuntu
<lucas> zyga: this is not bashing, just differences in POV
<ogra> lucas, we want to improve free software but we dont want to improve "all debian based distros" thats up to the other distros to care for
<zyga> okay so can we stop talking about POV and start talking about thinking of a way to package ruby right?
<lucas> zyga: can we switch the rubygems stuff to #debian-ruby ?
<ogra> why not #ubuntu-ruby ?
<zyga> lucas: we can probably go to #rubygems-packaging-without-install-time-compile
<lucas> because it doesn't exist ?
<ogra> make it exist, so we can point other intrested users there
<zyga> I don't care about ubuntu vs debian I care about ruby, please
<zyga> :)
<lucas> ogra: I'm not interested.
<lucas> ogra: do it, if you want
<zyga> okay guys
<zyga> please join #zk-ruby
<zyga> and dont talk about debian and ubuntu
<zyga> only about dpkg and ruby
<ogra> zyga, thats not very helpful... if you want to be the ubuntu ruby team do as all other ubuntu team do
<ogra> *teams
<zyga> ogra: I want to resolve technical issues first
<zyga> ogra: communication issues later
<koke> please #debian-ruby
<zyga> ogra: so what do yu suggest?
<koke> it makes more sense to discuss all together with people who has been thinking about it for some months
<zyga> true
<zyga> okay can we all agree to go to debian-ruby and talk about technical issues?
<ogra> *sigh*
<ogra> do as you like
<ogra> i have work to do
<koke> I'm already there :)
<zyga> okay
<Treenaks> argh, where's dholbach when you need him :)
<ajmitch> at berlinux, iirc :)
<ogra> Treenaks, berlinux
<ogra> presenting ubuntu and edubuntu
<Treenaks> ogra: coolness
<lucas> how do I send a mail to all members of a launchpad team ?
<Kyral> Mornin'....
<koke> lucas: I think there's no way to do dat
<koke> that
<lucas> ok
<lucas> I'll file a wishlist bug
<Kyral> hmm, UBZ is gonna start at like 9 AM
<Kyral> and it takes ~ 2 1/2 hours to get to Montreal from Clarkson...
<ajmitch> yes, same start time each day
<Kyral> which means I'm gonna have to leave at about 6:30 AM to get there in time
<ajmitch> and if it's like UDU, it'll run till 9pm or later each day :)
<Kyral> which means I have to get up at 6 AM...
<Kyral> damn I haven't done that since High School....
<ajmitch> night all
<Treenaks> Luckily my hostel seems to be close to the hotel
<Kyral> Yah...getting a hotel room might be a good idea...
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> ajmitch: night
<Kyral> It should end by 5
<Lathiat> its a hacker conference
<Lathiat> it wont
<Lathiat> ;p
<Kyral> good point
<Kyral> I don't mind that
<Lathiat> cept when your 2.5hours away? ;p
<Kyral> its having to get up at 6 AM to make it by 9 that bugs me
<Lathiat> steal someones floor or something :)
<Kyral> Dude I've been up to 4 AM playing HALO
<Lathiat> i've been up to 6am hacking code and then left for uni
<Lathiat> and came back at 5p
<Lathiat> m
<Lathiat> i think that was the most awake day at uni i ever hard
<Lathiat> brain probably pumping me lots of drugs
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I'm thinking I'm bringin a notebook + digicam
* zyga thinks that gems actually get it right
<Kyral> eh?
* zyga is thinking aloud
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> Rock on
<hub> Kyral: clarkson? where is that?
<hub> Lathiat: it is a hacker conference, people drink beer
<hub> so it is a bad idea to drive
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> too true
* hub needs coffee now
<Lathiat> i wouldnt know *ah hrmm*
<hub> wtf, it is damn too early for me
<Kyral> hub: Checkout www.clarkson.edu
<Kyral> I need to get going if I
<hub> ah, it is on the other side. no womder why I don't know
<Kyral> am gonna get breakfast in time to get to class. Damnit answering that question on the Forums took longer than I could give it
<hub> Kyral: 2.5 hours + the border crossing
<Kyral> Come visit sometime. The COSI (cosi.clarkson.edu) would be glad to have a guest
<Kyral> but CYA!
<hub> Kyral: can't enter y our country
<Kyral> y not?
<Kyral> yanno what tell me later CLASS
<Kyral> leave it in a PMSG
<Firetech> hmm, when running llxdoom (doomlegacy-x11), I get the following error when it tries to play sound (after that it crashes):
<Firetech> "/usr/bin/llsndserv: relocation error: /usr/bin/llsndserv: symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference"
<Firetech> running breezy
<Firetech> llsndserv is part of doomlegacy-x11
<lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motucompareversion.html
<lucas> I have a meeting, so I'll check comments later
<freeflying> why don't we make grub perform more beautifuly with patch from suse
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<dfarning> Hey a new Ubuntu guy here, I am interested on build the spell checking, hyphenation pattern s
<dfarning> and thesaurus packages for OOo2.
<dfarning> Who should I contact about that?
<ogra> dfarning, doko
<ogra> dfarning, but he's busy on a fair today
<dfarning> Is it best to email him?
<ogra> yup
<dfarning> ogra, thanks.
<LaserJock> man, do you guys have any tips for reducing eyestrain, my eyes are killing me?
<poningru> stop looking at the comp screen?
<jamessan|work> make sure your monitor's refresh rate is higher than 60Hz (if it's a CRT)
<LaserJock> poningru: not what fun would that be ;-)
<LaserJock> jamessan|work: it is a CRT and I think it is at 75Hz, maybe it's my fonts
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> how old is your crt?
<LaserJock> maybe 2 or 3 years
<LaserJock> it's a Dell 19" that I got when I bought a computer from them
<LaserJock> maybe it's the fontsize
<Lathiat> LaserJock: apt-get install workrave
<Lathiat> its for RSI but helps eyes too. :)
<jamessan|work> heh
<LaserJock> Lathiat: does it work? I might have to try that. Of course, I could just do so real life work too, but who want's to do that ;-)
<Lathiat> LaserJock: yeh
<Lathiat> LaserJock: i mean you coudl always drop to a console and kill it
<Lathiat> LaserJock: but RESIST THE URGE :)
<Lathiat> it gives you a postpone time if your in the middle of something
* zyga is back from work
<vuntz> so
<vuntz> is anyone working on a sysprof package?
<xhaker> shouldn't dholbach keep repackage the tango icon theme frequently?
<xhaker> s/keep/""
<crimsun> xhaker: he's probably tied for time, and Dapper isn't open yet
<xhaker> crimsun, so dapper needs to open first?
<crimsun> xhaker: for the packages to be officially updated in Ubuntu, yes
<xhaker> thanks for the info then :)
<crimsun> xhaker: I don't know if he keeps an unofficial repo
<xhaker> i thought that it could be updated since it's not in main
<crimsun> nope, the entire pool freezes once a release goes stable
<crimsun> only updates are in -security and -updates
<crimsun> (bugfix-related)
<xhaker> great
<xhaker> learned something today already
<xhaker> well. i kinda knew it.. but thought universe was an exception
<crimsun> nope. In fact, we're going to be a lot more strict about upstream version freeze for Dapper due to the longer support period.
<crimsun> hey \sh
<\sh> *yawn*
<\sh> evening crimsun
<xhaker> crimsun, i've been reading about that in the list
<xhaker> \sh, i'm developing some hatred towards your blog software
<xhaker> infact i don't know if it is the culprit.. but the planet.ubuntu.com has all your old blogging in the front :S
<xhaker> usually i say
<\sh> xhaker: pls thank planet...I never touched my blog
<\sh> not even a comment came in....
<\sh> I hate planet too...
<\sh> jdub should switch to s9y planet implementation
<\sh> which works (tm)
<xhaker> thats what i thought.. it seems to happen in refreshes
<\sh> xhaker: well..I just checked everything...but not even on timestamp is changed from one day to another...and planet hickuped as always
<\sh> a mess
<xhaker> argh.. i always have to pass through that bollywood pictures to check new posts :P
<\sh> s/on/one
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> sry for that...it's really not my fault
<xhaker> i wonder if it doesn't mess in the Rss
* \sh slept since 12 UTC today...so I never changed, touched, did anything
<xhaker> RSS
<xhaker> :P
<\sh> xhaker: nope...the rss is generated dynamically...and the entries are out of a mysql...no change
<\sh> the timestamps are per article...and it's set when it was posted
<\sh> xhaker: there are other planet implementations...and they don't mess around
<xhaker> i wonder what it is that messes this one tho
<\sh> xhaker: planet works like this
<\sh> xhaker: it fetches the feeds and build a timestamp database internally...when it sees, that he had this entry, with the same timestamp, he disregard the entry and check for the newer ones.
<\sh> xhaker: I don't know what happens with my rss or any other s9y blogs rss
<\sh> s9y devs were asking to fix this bug
<\sh> but there is nothing to fix in s9y
<herve> hello
<xhaker> silly question.. are the timestamps in the same format in both?
<crimsun> hi herve
<\sh> xhaker: the timestamps are standardized
<xhaker> just thought it could be misdetecting mm/dd/yyyy dd/mm/yyyy or something
<\sh> xhaker: <pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:42:59 +0200</pubDate> this is the timestamp for an article in rss2
<xhaker> <pubDate>
<xhaker>  was seeing that now :P
<xhaker> haha.. managed to crash firefox scrolling the rss2
<herve> this is some HTML standard, no?
<herve> maybe ISO
<\sh> xhaker: hmm..no problems here
<xhaker> i usually have no problems too
<xhaker> don't bother :P
* \sh is drinking now a beer and watches some dvds....
<\sh> laters
<zyga> \sh_away: cheers
<slomo> \sh_away: do you know how the progress with non-ascii chars and pyicq-t is?
<herve> slomo: unicode problems in Python?
<slomo> herve: don't know... messages coming from icq users are iso8859-1 and must be utf8... but they were working on it afaik
<herve> seems pretty easy
<slomo> if it was easy they would have fixed it already ;)
<herve> from what you said, it's a matter of " message.decode('iso-8859-1').encode('utf-8')
<herve> although any Python program is supposed to deal with Unicode internally
<slomo> it is maybe a bit more difficult... maybe it's not always iso-8859-1 but can be different for every user and no one knows how to know what it is or whatever...
<herve> probably yes
<mdke> have you guys seen newton (.sf.net)?
<mdke> it really rocks, and needs to go into universe :)
<ajmitch> yet another wiki? :)
<mdke> it is a gnome dock app personal wiki
<ajmitch> imho the sid packages they have should go into debian
<mdke> not a server
<ajmitch> and we should get them from there
<mdke> probably
<mdke> apparently the app is written by an Ubuntu user :)
<ajmitch> right
<mdke> damn it is a nice app
<mdke> so fast
<senecastudent> anyone in here?
<herve> youngs and patience...
<herve> :-)
<ajmitch> haha
<sivang> whos that user who did that app?
<herve> The name of Dennis reminds me someone
<trulux> hey sivang
<sivang> hey trulux
<sivang> I wonder if sf.net has screenshots
<mdke> sure
<mdke> loads of projects on sf.net have screenshots
<herve> many ones right on newton.sf.net
<trulux> sivang: how are going things over there?
<sivang> trulux: fine, however I'm hitting bed now. talk to you tommorow?
<herve> night all
<trulux> sivang: sure, sleep well!
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-27
<mdke> btw did anyone get istanbul working?
<mdke> i'd love to know how
<tseng> dholbach did
<mdke> tseng, it doesn't work in breezy
<tseng> sorry.
<mdke> you mean, dholbach got it working for breezy, or he knows how to fix it?
<tseng> he got it working
<mdke> in breezy, or on his own machine?
<tseng> i am pointing in directions, you are talking to the wrong guy
<mdke> ok
<mdke> sorry
<Kyral> Holy **** the Kernel Devel mailing list gets a lot of traffic
<alekz> hi, how can i have a inklevel meter ?
<Lord_Maynoth> anyone here
<Kyral> Yah
* ajmitch looks at his bank account & is relieved to see money in there again :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so does that mean you can waste more time on Ubuntu ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: means I can afford UBZ ;)
<LaserJock> well, that is important then
<LaserJock> ajmitch: have you set up a Debian chroot from Ubuntu before?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I regularly use it
<LaserJock> do you use debootstrap?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> ok, I am looking at the DebootstrapChroot wiki page and it seems to indicate that debootstrap is distribution specific (Breezy, Hoary, Sid, etc.) is that right?
<ajmitch> yup
<ajmitch> for example.. debootstrap sid /sid-root http://ftp.debian.org/debian/
<LaserJock> on the wiki though you install a different version of debootstrap depending on which one you want. Is that neccessary?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> that was necessary at the time
<ajmitch> since hoary's debootstrap wasn't setup to create a breezy chroot
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> but will I be able to install breezy
<LaserJock> debootstrap and be able to get Dapper
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> you'd dist-upgrade a breezy chroot
<ajmitch> which is what I'll probably do
<LaserJock> ohhh, that makes sense
<LaserJock> but I could install the debootstrap from Breezy and make a sid chroot?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> ohhh, I see that there are scripts for the dists in /usr/lib/deboootstrap/scripts so that is why
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> that's why the current debootstrap won't do dapper
<ajmitch> maybe for dapper we'll put in a script once we know the name of dapper+1
<LaserJock> ok, thanks ajmitch. I think I will be using chroots a fair amount from now on. Before I was just installing distros on spare partitions
<crimsun> chroots are handy
<ajmitch> certainly
<crimsun> I have 64-bit and 32-bit ones in addition to the pbuilders
<ajmitch> I think I've got hoary, breezy, sarge & sid chroots
<ajmitch> as well as pbuilders
<Trashcan> would someone mind unbanning me from #ubuntu? my connection is fixed for the time being :)
<LaserJock> you can have more than one pbuilder?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure
<ajmitch> you just have separate base tarballs
<ajmitch> and possibly separate configs
<LaserJock> wow! It gets better all the time
<ajmitch> cat `which bbuild`
<ajmitch> #!/bin/sh
<ajmitch> sudo pbuilder build $PBOPT --configfile ~/debian/pbuilder/configs/breezy.pbuilderrc $@
<ajmitch> an example script on my box
<ajmitch> so I'd just bbuild package.dsc
<LaserJock> very cool
<Trashcan> zcn/
<Trashcan> er, oups- keyboard cleaning
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, I've also got a small script to take a list of packages, increment their versions with a changelog entry, repack the source package, and run them through pbuilder :)
<ajmitch> great for massed rebuilds
<LaserJock> dang! I guess BddebianIsGod will have to be replaced with AjmitchIsGodAndMasterOfAll
<ajmitch> haha
<LaserJock> no wonder your Karam is so high, it is all scripted ;-)
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> uploads aren't counted yet :)
<LaserJock> but when they are, watch out
<Trashcan> lol
<ajmitch> oh I've only just started :)
<Trashcan> ajmitch, what is your main profession?
<Trashcan> if you don't mind me asking
<LaserJock> maybe we will have to have a "ajmitch hits 100,000 party" for Dapper
<ajmitch> Trashcan: irc lurker ;)
<Trashcan> hehe
<ajmitch> actually it's programmer
<Trashcan> figures :p
<LaserJock> hmm, that explains a lot, lol
<ajmitch> currently working with php, but I prefer python :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm just a chemist but I am digging python right now
* ajmitch would be lucky to hit 100K in karma
<ajmitch> I'd probably need to upload all of universe
<crimsun> let's cook up another transition so ajmitch can do his thang
<LaserJock> lol
<ajmitch> yay, transitions!
<LaserJock> well, we could just go back and forth between Xorg and Xfree. How about that?
<ajmitch> claw out my eyes with a rusty hammer, thanks
<LaserJock> "oh it's an even year, time for Xfree"
<Trashcan> ajmitch currently working with php, but I prefer python :) <--- you don't do C/C++ work?
<ajmitch> Trashcan: not currently, although I've done C & C++
<Trashcan> ok
<ajmitch> it wasn't an exhaustive list of languages I know :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm moving from FORTRAN to Python. No C++ though.
<Trashcan> fortran :p
<LaserJock> It's basically essential for sciences
<crimsun> fortran, the choice of true mathematicians with no time/life
<Trashcan> lol
<crimsun> f95 is an excellent example of a language that should not have had OOP paradigms hacked onto it
<LaserJock> I am trying to convince my advisor (who kinda fits crimsun's description) that python might make or lives simpler
<LaserJock> strictly F77 here ;-)
<crimsun> tritium used a lot of python in his dissertation as I recall
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to get the hang of scipy right now. It is really cool.
<LaserJock> I will probably have a some python in my dissertation but it would be pretty minimal since I am an experimentalist
<LaserJock> can I get somebodies sources.list for Debian unstable?
<ajmitch> LaserJock:
<ajmitch> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib
<ajmitch> similar for deb-src
<LaserJock> dang it. it's just not working. maybe unstable is not working right now
<LaserJock> i'm just trying to install wget
<tony_the_cable_g> Whats the best way to install Skype?
<Kyral> I'm feeling curious
<Kyral> should I fire up nmap and portscan someone.....
<ajmitch> no
<Kyral> Awww....
<Kyral> ooooo I wonder what IRC data looks like
* Kyral fires up Ethereal and focuses on himself
<Kyral> Ethereal capture started :D
<Kyral> This is gonna be quite interesting
<Kyral> Its not a bad thing to trace on yourself right?
<Kyral> Wow...IRC doesn't seem to carry any data unencrypted AT ALL
<Amaranth> if you're using ssl, of course not
<Kyral> I don't think I am
<Kyral> I just ran Ethereal for like 3 mins
<Kyral> I discovered that AIM transmits in the clear
<Amaranth> only for messages
<Kyral> and notifications
<ajmitch> irc is generally completely cleartext
<Lathiat> Kyral: many protocols are unencrypted
<Lathiat> Kyral: whats the point of encrypting it
<Kyral> Yah but wow....
<Lathiat> its silly
<Lathiat> if you really want, you can use ssl with some ircds
<Lathiat> Kyral: why are you so surprised?
<Kyral> In case someone who is curious is running Ethereal
<Kyral> Dunno
<Lathiat> bwuahahah
<Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/dns-sd-avahi.jpg
<Lathiat> ajmitch:
<ajmitch> what'd I do?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: look at that url. :)
<ajmitch> hm, interesting :)
<ajmitch> hard to read though
<Lathiat> im just waiting for sebest to send me a screenshot of bonjour browser
<Lathiat> or itunes ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<Kyral> Well this was fun
<Kyral> Now I want to capture more
<Kyral> and brb, reconnecting with SSL...
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> uh, i dont think freenode does ssl
<ajmitch> :)
<Lathiat> ps: every other person on the channels your on has it in the clear, so it'l just get sniffed elsewhere or on an inter-server link ;)
<Kyral> Does Freenode have any SSL servers...
<ajmitch> no..
<ajmitch> most irc networks don't, afaik
<Kyral> damnit
<Amaranth> freenode does
<Amaranth> iirc it's ssl.freenode.net
<ajmitch> it does? interesting
<Amaranth> or ssl.irc.freenode.net, check the website
<Kyral> niiice
<Amaranth> they used to, anyway
<Lathiat> oh, didnt knwo that
<ajmitch> Kyral: what is the point of you connecting with ssl?
<Lathiat> Kyral: theres no point
<Kyral> I mainly ran the Ethereal trace to find out what was being sent from me
<Kyral> ajmitch, I'm paranoid ;P
<Amaranth> doesn't make a difference if the people you talk to aren't using it
<Lathiat> Kyral: everythign you say is only going to end up over a non-ssl inter-server link or someone eles client link
<ajmitch> it's like locking the front door when the whole back wall of the house is missing
* Lathiat laughs
<Kyral> ajmitch, it will be encrypted on the way to the server right?
<ajmitch> so?
<Kyral> Thats all I care about
<ajmitch> I hope your local uni network doesn't allow ethereal to operate
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> Why?
<ajmitch> because it's broken if users can sniff packets on their local ethernet segment :)
<ajmitch> since you should be all on switches
<Kyral> I can only scan the local dorm
<ajmitch> scan in what way?
<Kyral> Collect packets
<Kyral> Ethereal trace
<ajmitch> you see all the dorm traffic with ethereal?
<ajmitch> or just broadcast traffic?
<Kyral> Yah...well, my floor and the one above me. I don't know how far it goes
<Kyral> I caught stuff like IMs
* ajmitch hands Kyral a 2x4
<Kyral> HTTP Requests, Jabber, ARP lookups,
<ajmitch> go beat your network admins
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> arp lookups are expected
<Lathiat> http requests and jabber arent tho. :)
<Lathiat> hah
* Lathiat loves dsniff
<Kyral> Well like half the people have routers
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, I wasn't going to go into those :)
<Lathiat> msgsnarf is great
<Kyral> so I can't tap them directly
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heheh
<ajmitch> Lathiat: ettercap? :)
<Lathiat> Kyral: errr, what do you mean
<Kyral> I can't "aim" at the computers behind routers
* Lathiat puzzles
<Kyral> I can't nmap the things behind routers
<Kyral> directly
<Lathiat> oh, right
<ajmitch> Lathiat: he's trying to h4x0r computers on the dorm network ;)
<Kyral> Nah
<Lathiat> i thought he was still talking about sniffing
<Kyral> I just wanted to see what my IRC Traffic looked like
<Lathiat> and was trying to figure out what a router had to do with stopping you doing that
<Lathiat> Kyral: go read RFC1459. :)
<ajmitch> nmap is not the way to go, honestly
<Kyral> catching everything else was a bonus ;P
<ajmitch> nmap causes stuff from you to show up as nice flashing alerts on many people's systems
<lath|telnet> then you can do this. :)
<Kyral> not if you use it right
<Lathiat> Kyral: uh, yeh, it does
<Lathiat> people know what nmap does inside out
<Kyral> Oh
<Kyral> remind me not to portscan with nmap
<ajmitch> Kyral: don't portscan with nmap
<Kyral> I won't
<Lathiat> dont portscan
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> you might get a visit from some people
<Lathiat> theres no way to portscan that can't be detected in one way or another
<Kyral> the most I would do is go knock on the door and show them the output ;P
<Kyral> and them help them fix it
<ajmitch> that's still cleaning up after the fact
<ajmitch> after people have freaked about about a breakin attempt :P
<Kyral> Somehow my eth0 runs in Promiscous mode all the time
<Lathiat> Kyral: how do you know that?
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Kyral>  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST
<Amaranth> i'm still getting reports on a simple typo in the about box on smeg 0.7.5
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I know there are some methods of portscanning using sequencing that are far harder to detect
* Lathiat points out the lack of PROMISC in that line
<Kyral> oh
<Amaranth> I DON'T CARE
* Amaranth vents
<Kyral> I gues Ethereal killed it
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh, using zombie boxes is fun too
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: have you read about how that works?
<Kyral> ooo I have experianced people here
<Lathiat> its quite cool
* Kyral plops down
<ajmitch> idle scanning?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: but any which way, its quite seeable
<Kyral> Can you show me stuff?
<Lathiat> Kyral: yes, ethereal puts PROMISC on when its sniffing
<Lathiat> obviously
<ajmitch> sit at the feet of the mighty Lathiat, networking guru ;)
<Kyral> hmm, then why does chkrootkit tell me that eth0 is in PROMISC?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: detectable, but harder to trace back to you
<Lathiat> ajmitch: right
<ajmitch> anything that sends packets is going to show up somehow
<Lathiat> ajmitch: basically, you use spoof packets
<Lathiat> ajmitch: (which aren talways available, but often on a lan)
<Kyral> Are Ethereal traces detectable?
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> ajmitch: and you fire a portscan packet with the source of another computer
<ajmitch> Kyral: it's possible
<Lathiat> ajmitch: and then you fire a packet at the portsca compute
<Kyral> I mean, it just watches what flows past right?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: and if that other computer has predictable sequence numbers
<ajmitch> yeah, I remember reading about that scanning when it came out
<Lathiat> ajmitch: you can use that to figure out if the remote host has the port open, as it would have sent an ACK etc
<ajmitch> yep
<Kyral> BTW: Technically Tracing from the Dorms is against the rules, except from the ITL
<ajmitch> sometimes it's useful having wasted a semester learning the details of tcp/ip ;)
<Lathiat> hence patches for randomizing various numbers
<Lathiat> to try decrease the possibility of such things
<ajmitch> yes
<Lathiat> Kyral: sniffing, no
<Kyral> But since I'm on the Maintenence Team for the ITL...
<Kyral> Tracing == Sniffing?
<Lathiat> probabl
<Lathiat> y
<Lathiat> i set OSPF up over a point-to-multipoint frame-relay link between 3 routers yesterday ;p
* Lathiat hugs cisco course
<Lathiat> they have this rather nifty 'netlab'
<ajmitch> yeah that's just evil
* ajmitch has used OSPF
<Lathiat> that has a bunch of routers in the rack and a computer between telnet and the machine
<Lathiat> and you can tell it to do cerain things
<Lathiat> scrub the config, etc
<Lathiat> and it takes control and drops it into rommon, sets the config register etc
<Lathiat> then puts  anew config on and saves it, and gives control back
<Lathiat> can also power the devices on and off
<zakame> hi all
<Lathiat> its quite cool
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> Lets see what this turns up
<Lathiat> ajmitch: its a bitch quagga doesnt do OSPF
<Kyral> I set Ethereal to a meg of traffic
<ajmitch> Lathiat: zebra did when I used it
<Lathiat> the routers we work oon are so slow, when i was doing bgp i wused 3 vmwares with minimal hoary installs + quagga and vmware virtual networks. :)
<ajmitch> I'm using BGP now though
<Lathiat> vmware team networks are sweet
<Lathiat> you can set bandwidht
<Lathiat> packet loss
<Lathiat> etc
<Lathiat> put as many hosts on segments
<Lathiat> and have as many as you like
<Lathiat> its really cool
<Kyral> How many packets is a Meg?
<Lathiat> Kyral: thats not defined
<Kyral> roughly
<Lathiat> it could be anywhere between 700 and 16,000 or something
<Kyral> hmm, coming up on 700...
<Kyral> my trace of a VNC session was much more interesting
<Lathiat> ajmitch: baha
<Lathiat> ajmitch: *imagines dsniff with a vnc viewer*
<Kyral> Keep in mind it was my own VNC session
<Kyral> what is dsniff?
<ajmitch> the dodgy mind of Lathiat ;)
<Lathiat> Kyral: somethign thatl get you in lots of trouble ;p
<Kyral> So stick with Ethereal ;P
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> man i tried quake4 out yesterday
<Lathiat> chugged like crazy :(
<Lathiat> but 256M surely is nto helping
<Lathiat> i might try ti out my othe rmachine with 512M
<Lathiat> but i'll hve to use windows or install hoary or something since the nvidia drivers wont work
<Kyral> I'm gonna try to see what an Apt download looks like :D
<Lathiat> on breezy on my laptop
<Lathiat> Kyral: just http
<Lathiat> or ftp or whatever you have setup
<ajmitch> the novelty of ethereal quickly wears off
<Kyral> What does Etherape do...
<Kyral> ajmitch, I'm using as a learning experiance
<Lathiat> aha usre, thats what they all say ;p
<Lathiat> Kyral: it likes
<ajmitch> avahi is much much cooler than ethereal
<Lathiat> Kyral: gives you a few of all the hosts it sees showing packets
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> shame about the upstream though ;)
<Lathiat> and shows a line, size depending on bandwidht of the packets goign around
<Lathiat> try it out
<Kyral> I will
* Lathiat kicks ajmitch 
<ajmitch> :D
<Kyral> It won't get me in trouble will it?
<Lathiat> nah
<Kyral> Seriously I'm gonna take an IT minor, might be good for me to learn about what network traffic looks like :D
<Lathiat> well, unless someones standing ove ryour shoulder
<Lathiat> im gonna drop out of kde and kill everythign to try get enough ram to make quake4 work ;)
<Lathiat> bbiab
<Kyral> will avahi get me in trouble...
<ajmitch> no
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<ajmitch> avahi is to 1337 for that
<ajmitch> s/to/too/
<Kyral> and what can it do?
<ajmitch> service discovery
<Kyral> ==?
<ajmitch> apt-get install service-discovery-applet
<Lathiat> avahi-daemon too, and avahi-utils
<ajmitch> yeah, s-d-a might need a few more dependencies
* ajmitch is hungry now
<Kyral> some idiot is running an FTP, SFTP, and SSH server in the clear...
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> ssh in the clear? :)
<Kyral> yah
<ajmitch> what on earth do you mean by that?
<Kyral> It showed up on Services Discovery
<Kyral> what happens if i click on the name?
<ajmitch> generally people refer to 'in the clear' as unencrypted
<ajmitch> which sftp & ssh are not
<ajmitch> what you mean is that the services are announced, most likely on a mac OSX box
<Lathiat> Kyral: the whole point of service discovery is to announce them on the network, duh
<Kyral> I got some CDP traffic
<Lathiat> as in cisco?
<Kyral> yah
* Lathiat nods
* ajmitch wonders why he's only seeing his own computer in avahi-discover - most likely all the macs in the house are off
<ajmitch> yeah, the mac fanatic is out of the house at the moment ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<Kyral> Wow, caught a CUPS packet
<ajmitch> Kyral: you seem amazed at the normal background traffic that goes on :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it'll be fun to see how much stuff is around on wireless at LCA
<Kyral> How do I filter out my own traffic?
<ajmitch> ok, time to make a supermarket run
<ajmitch> bbl
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
<Lathiat> Kyral: put ip.addr != <your ip> up the top
<Kyral> Can I apply multiple filters at a time?
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> and
<Lathiat> and this and that
<Kyral> I'm done for the night
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
<ajmitch> pong
<ajmitch> how may I be of assistance?
<LaserJock> did you make a unstable chroot from Breezy?
<ajmitch> yes, I did
<LaserJock> I can't get debootstrap to work to save my life
<LaserJock> I tried sid and everything looks ok, but I don't have less and I can't apt-get anything
<LaserJock> etch didn't get through debootstrap
<ajmitch> what happens when you try to use apt-get?
<LaserJock> I get lot of unmet deps
<LaserJock> libssl is one I know of
<ajmitch> what's in your chroot sources list?
<LaserJock> I just try apt-get install wget and it has at least 3 unmet deps
<ajmitch> and have you run apt-get update?
<LaserJock> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
<LaserJock> thing is, when I go to any of the debian mirrors I can't find libssl even though packages.debian.org says it should be there
<ajmitch> being sid it wouldn't surprise me if there are issues with libssl0.9.8
<ajmitch> since they're just transitioning to that from libssl0.9.7
<LaserJock> well, that is why I though of starting with etch and dist-upgrading but I can't get etch
<ajmitch> I'd dist-upgrade from sarge, never etch
<LaserJock> just a sec, let me see if sarge works
<LaserJock> ajmitch: seems to be working, thanks
<ajmitch> ok
<robitaille> what's the date/time of the next motu meeting?
<ajmitch> erm
<ajmitch> I can't recall if we set a date
<ajmitch> since it'll be during UBZ
* ajmitch has to write up minutes, thanks for reminder :)
<robitaille> just trying to update the topic in #ubuntu-meeting
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> sivang: brave of you to put the spec on LP for autopackage
<Lathiat> hahaha
<ajmitch> hi tritium
<tritium> hi ajmitch
<tritium> Nice to finally be home...
<crimsun> no kidding
<crimsun> hi ajmitch, tritium
<tritium> hi crimsun
<tritium> traveling too, eh, crimsun?
<crimsun> yeah, hopping about the country
<tritium> Is UBZ this coming weekend?
<ajmitch> starts on the 30th
* ajmitch should get into montreal on the morning of the 29th
<whiprush> ajmitch: first time in our hemisphere?
<ajmitch> yep
<whiprush> cool!
<alekz> hi, how can i have a inklevel meter ?
<tritium> Hope you guys enjoy it.
<ajmitch> tritium: I hope so :)
<tritium> :)
<crimsun> Canada's pretty swift
<ajmitch> ok, I have phpmyadmin update ready
<ajmitch> now I just have to get f-spot done properly for breezy-updates
<ajmitch> alekz: I'm sorry, what do you mean? something for your printer?
<alekz> yes ajmitch
<crimsun> I wonder if unmetdeps qualify for breezy-updates
<ajmitch> crimsun: not likely
<ajmitch> you could try
<whiprush> hey aj
<whiprush> may I ask a small favor?
<ajmitch> f-spot is a data muncher bug
<ajmitch> whiprush: sure
<whiprush> can you look at this:
<whiprush> 00:23 < whiprush> heh
<crimsun> yeah, I'll ping mdz in a bit
<whiprush> blah
<ajmitch> haha
<whiprush> stupid copy and paste synergy!
<ajmitch> still pasting that?
<whiprush> malone bug 2397
<whiprush> apparently, this program is popular in my lug.
<whiprush> and we go to the bar and people flame me.
<whiprush> it
<ajmitch> oh man
<whiprush> it's a pretty bad situation.
<ajmitch> not that one
<ajmitch> haha
<whiprush> So whom do I have to send a case of beer to?
<ajmitch> a few people have looked at it
<ajmitch> and I doubt I'll have time to
<ajmitch> my TODO list is growing & my time is shrinking :)
<whiprush> no prob.
<ajmitch> sorry about that
<ajmitch> I've got to do debian sponsoring, package updates, and php code
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> and I've got to convince them to just dump it and use f-spot.
<Lathiat> he3h
<Lathiat> pornview
<Lathiat> i had a quick look, rebuild didnt help
<Lathiat> gave up
<whiprush> I think I'll just do a "MOTUs are too busy, but if you've got a patch, and I know you all are capable of making one, maybe we can push it through."
<Lathiat> also
<whiprush> will that work?
<Lathiat> malone needs a damned confirmed state
<ajmitch> whiprush: maybe :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah, accepted just doesn't cut it
<Lathiat> so you can easily see initially triaged bugs
<Lathiat> ajmitch: the whole process needs some thinking out
<Lathiat> like
<ajmitch> accepted is when someone's working on it
<Lathiat> assigning to MOTU is broken
<ajmitch> agreed
<Lathiat> bugs need to "belong" to motu
<Lathiat> somehow
<Lathiat> by package association ro whatever
<Lathiat> and then be assigned to someone working on it
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> MOTU should be maintainer & get the bug emails
<Lathiat> that could work
<ajmitch> and they should get assigned to minions
<Lathiat> sortof
<Lathiat> but i mean
<Lathiat> packages have other maintainers too
<Lathiat> i dunno
<ajmitch> it's all a mess
<Lathiat> i filed a bug about "assignign to both a team and a person"
<Lathiat> hasnt really gone anywhere other than "specifically makign bugs assigned ot both teams and people sucks"
<Lathiat> so i said "well, some way to sort this issue out -> "
<Lathiat> but yeh
<ajmitch> something to spec out at UBZ ;)
* Yagisan reads meeting irc log
<tritium> ajmitch, did you already post the meeting minutes?
* Yagisan is confused - I can't upload a kernel to universe - yet you will sync it anyway from my apt-get.org repo ?
<ajmitch> tritium: no, that's also on my todo list
<ajmitch> Yagisan: no, probably not
<ajmitch> Yagisan: and it's a call from the kernel team
<tritium> ajmitch, okay, just curious if that's what Yagisan was reading
<ajmitch> tritium: my apologies
<zyga> morning
<tritium> ajmitch, no need to :)
<ajmitch> tritium: yes, I do
<ajmitch> I suck, I should have done them by now
<tritium> I'll bet the irclogs are back up anyway
<Yagisan> ajmitch: That meeting went very different to my chat on ubuntu-kernel
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I can't help it if they changed their minds :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: well - at least I logged the "yes go ahead - but only in lockstep" answers
<whiprush> ajmitch / Lathiat: http://www.mug.org/pipermail/discuss/2005-October/000078.html
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'll stick my kernels on my private repo as I bake them
<ajmitch> Yagisan: great, thanks :)
<whiprush> ajmitch: it's all about turning bugs into positive learning experiences. :)
* ajmitch would hate to see the work disappear
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'd like to see your selinux stuff when you have time
* ajmitch watches gnome-terminal suddenly crap out again
<whiprush> ajmitch: xterminal (the xfce terminal)
<whiprush> use it, love it.
* ajmitch rages
<whiprush> it's a better gnome terminal than gnome-terminal.
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I'd love to show it, once it's in that state (yes it's on my weekend TODO list ;) )
<Yagisan> ajmitch: If your TODO list is like mine - we'll get to it in a few weeks
<ajmitch> Yagisan: hehe yeah
<ajmitch> or it's something I'll do sitting in an airport ;)
* ajmitch is not looking forward to friday
* Yagisan is so busy he often doesn't even know what day it is
<ajmitch> all I know is that I've got 3 days off this weekend
<ajmitch> & 1 of those days is nearly over
<ajmitch> whiprush: cheers, xterminal looks reasonable
* ajmitch sees if he can disable shortcut keys
<whiprush> aka "make it work with irssi"
<ajmitch> yep :)
<ajmitch> alt-left/alt-right still don't do it though
<ajmitch> mm, fullscreen mode is nice
<crimsun> pornview looks like it has quite a few leaks
<crimsun> from just a rudimentary run through valgrind
<crimsun> hmm, it's in the xine backend, since the mplayer backend purportedly works
<whiprush> wow, I didn't even know pornview had "backends"
<Yagisan> I got a cold glare from my wife when she saw there is a package called pornview
<Lathiat> lol
<crimsun> ick, looks like gtk-xine.c::load_audio_out_driver() needs to be updated and made more robust
<crimsun> gtkxine.c, rather
<Lathiat> anyone know what ddr400 is in pcxxxx terms?
<Lathiat> liek 2700, 3200
* ajmitch tries to recall..
<ajmitch> 3200
<Lathiat> hrm, /me guesses its 3200
<Lathiat> since i just found 266 is 2100
<Lathiat> and 2100*(400/266) = 3156 or so
<Lathiat> no idea if thats how it works but seems sane :)
<ajmitch> google for ddr400 shows plenty of 3200 references :)
<Lathiat> heh ok
* ajmitch needs caffiene or something
<ajmitch> staying up for another irc meeting...
<[Chameleon] > check out this other "pornview" application
<[Chameleon] > http://skinky.navelsex.com/
<[Chameleon] > different platform entirely, but nonetheless interesting.
<[Chameleon] > funny
<sivang> ajmitch: brave? :_)
<sivang> morning all
<ajmitch> sivang: yes
<ajmitch> main developers do not like autopackage
<ajmitch> and it comes up frequently ;)
<lifeless> 'autopackage' ?
<sivang> ajmitch: lol, what's the *main* reason if you excuse the pun?
<[Chameleon] > lifeless: google
<ajmitch> it provides a great way to let users install the latest & greatest software & break their system
<lifeless> [Chameleon] : altavista
<[Chameleon] > lifeless: whatever
<ajmitch> lifeless: packaging system, does binary relocation, etc
<lifeless> [Chameleon] : I'm playing the word association game you started
<ajmitch> puts things into /usr by default
<lifeless> ajmitch: heuristic based ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: or data driven ?
<ajmitch> data driven
<[Chameleon] > lifeless: in that case, the word I thought of when you said "altavista" was "poop"... literally.
<ajmitch> people still have to make 'autopackages'
<lifeless> ajmitch: so, not really different to dpkg then :)
<ajmitch> just more breakage
<sivang> ajmitch: I've looked at klik, seems it would be a better solution for us maybe
<[Chameleon] > lifeless: supposedly it is to work on all distros
<lifeless> ajmitch: can you say 'apt-get.org' :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: I can say 'oh god no'
<sivang> lifeless: what's the differnece between hueristic drive / data driven ?
<Mithrandir> lifeless: autopackage is way more crack than a-g.o
<ajmitch> lifeless: sabdfl wanted us to import nearly all of apt-get.org for hoary & breezy
<lifeless> sivang: ajmitch I know :)
<sivang> hmm, bad tab completion? :)
<lifeless> sivang: well, encap is much more heuristic based than explicit data
<lifeless> sivang: heuristic based systems are ones that guess rather than are told.
<sivang> lifeless: yes, sure, but how that applies to a packaging system? :)
<ajmitch> autopackage possibly does a fair bit of guessing as well
<lifeless> -most- systems have bits of both, but a strong bias one way or another
<ajmitch> sivang: it's easier to make bad packages with a guess
<lifeless> sivang: well, there is a system somewhere that generates packages by installing in a chroot and then just tarring up what it got
<lifeless> thats ~100% heuristic :0
<ajmitch> sounds like checkinstall
<sivang> lifeless: but it didn't do any guessing at all, only did something bruetly :)
<sivang> lifeless: that is, I'll install to the chroot, then pack it up hopefully other user will eb able to install as well :)
<ajmitch> sivang: guessing can be done by generating the dependancies for a package
<lifeless> ajmitch: I think that is the one I am thinkig of
<lifeless> sivang: but it has guessed : it has guessed on conflicts:, it has guessed on dependencies, it has guessed on pre-install and postinstall and preremove and postremove actions
<sivang> lifeless: but doesn't installing in a chroot means that it plain inqueried the dependency resolution system for the required dependencies, tracked them and listed them in, then just repackged it with those? (e.g., no guessing was done)
<lifeless> sivang: what you just described is guessing
<lifeless> what 'required dependencies' ?
<lifeless> heres an example.
<lifeless> I write an evolution plugin with this
<lifeless> how does it know that my plugin is only of use when evo is installed ?
<sivang> lifeless: well, if you specified dependencies right, then it can see that in the dependency pull in, there are evo's libs which get installed when evo gets installed?
<lifeless> sivang: but this has *no specified dependencies*.
<lifeless> sivang: you are thinking of this as something sane. Its not, its fully heuristic.
<sivang> lifeless: ah, as in trying to parse the autocraps and understand the dependencies from there? <g>
<lifeless> thats the sort of thing heaviy heuristic systems get into
<sivang> basically, what comes into mind is that you can just run the autofoo scripts, prase output and get a list of stuff it didn't find for buildin, then with some heavy cruft of apt-file searches on various forms the library names (I know there are some) you can with some time and effort come up with the list of packages that need be installed for it,
<sivang> sounds doab however is insane in some degree :)
<[Chameleon] > Treenaks: already here
<Treenaks> ok :)
<sivang> [Chameleon] : they already have a deb ?
<[Chameleon] > yeah, it's i386 tho
<[Chameleon] > for some debian offshoot called "MedianLinux"
<[Chameleon] > I'm on AMD64... Should that i386 deb work on my system?
<ajmitch> "Jahshaka Debian Package for Mediainlinux Debian Sid. Converted with alien from a .rpm package"
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> so it needs packaged properly
<[Chameleon] > yeah, I wondered if that might also be a problem.
<sivang> ajmitch: well, DB2  is nicely installable with alien on Ubuntu :)
<ajmitch> 'nicely'
<ajmitch> hah
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> well, it works
<sivang> :)
<ajmitch> something working is not the same as nice packaging :)
<[Chameleon] > if the i386 binary has a chance of working on my AMD64 system, I'll try installing it.
<[Chameleon] > otherwise, I'll try building from source and packaging.
* [Chameleon]  will probably need assistance with that 2nd option tho
<ajmitch> hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning ajmitch :-)
<sivang> hey Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning sivang :-)
<Nafallo> morning all :-)
<\sh> moins Nafallo
<Nafallo> is dapper open? ;-)
<ajmitch> no, be quiet :P
<ajmitch> you should know not to ask such questions
<Nafallo> hihi
<ajmitch> every time someone asks, it's delayed another day
<Nafallo> then I teach gothcat more about firewalls today then ;-)
* ajmitch has been busy producing packages to upload to debian
<ajmitch> and doing coding
<ssam> there is a data loss bug in f-spot on powerpc, it is patched upstream, and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/f-spot/+bug/3338 says it is pending upload. how long will this take?
<ajmitch> ssam: as long as it takes to get the package uploaded
<ajmitch> which means getting it approved
<ssam> is there anything i can do to help?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> unless you want to compile the source package I have to test it
<ssam> if you have time to talk me through doing that
<ajmitch> since I don't have a powerpc available to test on
* ajmitch has to make sure the source package is straightened out
<tseng> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<ajmitch> how are you?
<tseng> ok thanks
<tseng> trying not to reply on my friends blog to a comment by elitist christians
<ajmitch> oh?
<tseng> yeah the "we are inherently better than atheists, they are just afraid of judgement, etc"
* ajmitch nods
<tseng> not spelled out, but that is the distilled belief
<ajmitch> got url?
<tseng> http://josiah.ritchietribe.net/blog/archive/2005/10/1112/#comments
<[Chameleon] > tseng: I really dislike the attitude some Christians exude. It's not Christ-like at all.
<tseng> no, not at all
<tseng> but i probably shouldnt have stirred up here
<tseng> i thought i was in hiding
<[Chameleon] > :>
<ajmitch> heh
<slomo> ajmitch: i can test it later for you
<ajmitch> slomo: thanks
<tseng> morning slomo
<slomo> ajmitch: where can i get your updated package?
<slomo> hi tseng :)
<ajmitch> slomo: same place, same version number, but with a fixed dpatch
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/build/f-spot_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.1.diff.gz
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/tmp/build/f-spot_0.1.3-1ubuntu1.1.dsc
<slomo> thanks
<ajmitch> should be the files to use
<slomo> i'll try it after shopping ;)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch is going off to sleep soon
<ajmitch> but at least I managed to get some of my debian packages up to the latest upstream version
<slomo> ajmitch: hehe, fine :) what packages are these?
<ajmitch> just some python packages
<ajmitch> which I'll upload tomorrow
<ajmitch> I'll try & get the others done too
<ajmitch> but the last version of pnet, for example, had a 2MB diff.gz
<ajmitch> due to autotools
<ajmitch> so it's a complicated dance to get it to work right
<slomo> hmm... why don't you run autofoo in rules then?
<ajmitch> because it still involves patching things & running the right versions
<ajmitch> it's generally less fragile to get the patch right, than to rely on it working properly at build time
<Kyral> mornin'
<ajmitch> pnet is just a pain because of the outdated autotools junk
<ajmitch> the rest of the build is smooth enough
<ajmitch> not that anyone uses it :)
<slomo> hehe... already tried to convice upstream to fix it? ;)
<ajmitch> oh it was mostly fixed in the last upstream version
<ajmitch> with an import of new libgc & libffi
<ajmitch> which I probably don't want to use
<ajmitch> I have to try & hack in a fix to use the system libgc & libffi
<slomo> hm... are you sure they didn't modify both libs for their needs? the mono guys did this with libgc... you _can_ use the system libgc but everything works better with their modified version
<tseng> they dont want you to use system
<slomo> yes
<slomo> btw, how is the progress with pnet? is it already capable of running for example any of the gtk# stuff?
<tseng> mono-classlib is already moving to 2.0
<tseng> im afraid pnet will always be left behind
<ajmitch> oh yes
<ajmitch> pnet is crap
<ajmitch> pnet did have modifications to libgc but they were rolled in upstream
<ajmitch> the main coder gave up on pnet
<ajmitch> and he did probably 75% of it
<ajmitch> he's a very good coder, but working alone just didn't work out
<tseng> =/
<ajmitch> anyway, sleep time
<ajmitch> see you in the morning
<slomo> gn8 ajmitch :)
<HiddenWolf> software outside of universe sucks. :(
<LostSole> Anyone out there working on getting a more recent MythTV version going on an AMD64?
<HiddenWolf> I'm more interested in freevo packages myself. :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<HiddenWolf> heya
<sivang> yo bddebian the god :)
<bddebian> pfft, bddebian the loser :)
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<HiddenWolf> is there someone here up for some horrendous packaging? :P
<bddebian> HiddenWolf: I'm probably out of commission for a week or so :-(
<HiddenWolf> bddebian, what's up?
<bddebian> RL job :'-(
<zyga> bddebian: (hug)
<zyga> lol ;-)
<bddebian> :-)
<runeh> I have a problem with rbscrobbler and songs with special characters. Should I report a bug at once, or does somebody want to take a look at it first?
<Lathiat> runeh: file a bug
<runeh> OK. Will do.
<Lathiat> http://launchpad.net/malone/
<bmonty> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Whassup bmonty ?
<bmonty> not much, finally got some time off to mess around with ubuntu again
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> haven't seen you in a while. I got my IRC problem fixed
<bddebian> bmonty: Cool.  I'm screwed at work for alittle while :-(
<bmonty> LaserJock: yeah, I've been busy with my real job :)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hola bddebian
<runeh> Sorry, it seems I posted a duplicate bug.
<LaserJock> bmonty: know what you mean. My boss has been coming in for the last week and asking what I've gotten done ;-)
<runeh> Should have checked first. :/
<bmonty> runeh: no problem, just mark your bug as a duplicate
<runeh> Done.
<bmonty> anyone know who runs the technical board?
<LaserJock> sabdfl ?
<bddebian> bmonty: There are a few members.  mdz, sabdfl and such
<bmonty> bddebian: is one of them primarily involved with MOTU applications?
<bddebian> None of them care about Universe ;-P
<LaserJock> lol
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<bmonty> hi \sh
<\sh> re
<bmonty> bddebian: my problem is that I can't get to the tech board meetings...I want to see if they will consider another method to approve my MOTU application
<\sh> bddebian / bmonty: good evening :)
<bddebian> bmonty: Yes, we have mentioned you. :-)
<bddebian> bmonty: I would e-mail mdz
<bmonty> bddebian: do you know what his real name is so I can look his email up on launchpad?
<\sh> bmonty: when is the best time to get you for a irc meeting? give us a day and a time
<bddebian> bmonty: Matt Zimmerman
<bmonty> \sh: almost any weekend day, or after 2200Z
<\sh> bmonty: 2200Z == ?? in UTC?
<bmonty> I don't want special treatment, but I'll probably never get to complete the process with the current schedule
<bmonty> \sh: yes
<bmonty> brb, lunch time :)
<\sh> 22UTC should be no problem
<\sh> damn...I have to go to the office just now..wanted to order some food..had my beer ready and then a phone call
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<bmonty> back
<bmonty> \sh: thanks
<HiddenWolf> isn't there any half-decent pctv solution out there?
<HiddenWolf> freevo seems more or less dead, or at least not vibrant, and mythtv, well
<bmonty> HiddenWolf: I don't use pctv stuff, but it has always seemed to me that mythtv is most widely used
<HiddenWolf> bmonty, I can't get it configured, and the requirements for it are massive.  / freevo on the other hand does not have debs for the version that /might/ work on ubuntu
<bmonty> HiddenWolf: you don't have to package a program to try it out
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<bmonty> hi chillywilly
<\sh> ok..need to go to the office...laters dude
<bddebian> Later \sh
<bmonty> bye \sh
<LaserJock> dang, it doesn't look like the wiki keeps subscriptions of a wiki page is renamed. That sucks
<LaserJock> s/of/if/
<chillywilly> seems like the next Ubuntu release is going to be a big one ;)
<chillywilly> lots of features and the like
<HiddenWolf> chillywilly, features haven't been decided, and are likely to be quite incremental.
<HiddenWolf> chillywilly, some improvements, but mostly stability and work under the hood.
<bddebian> How can you improve on greatness? ;-P
<bmonty> redefine greatness
<bddebian> ;-)
<chillywilly> :)
<bddebian> Am I still here?
<bmonty> yex
<bmonty> yes
<bmonty> but I'm not
<bddebian> You aren't? :-)
<SEJeff> Is OO.o 2.0 stable going to be in breezy-updates?
<SEJeff>  Is OO.o 2.0 stable going to be in breezy-updates?
<HiddenWolf> SEJeff, chill out, asking once is enough.
<HiddenWolf> SEJeff, once dapper opens, it'll likely be backported.
<SEJeff> HiddenWolf: Thanks
<ajmitch> morning all
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi, what's up?
<ajmitch> I haven't seen you hacking on stuff lately
<ajmitch> quit again?
<bddebian> Work :-(
<ajmitch> what?
<ajmitch> you do work?
<bddebian> When I HAVE to ;)
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> which explains why you did so much breezy stuff instead
<the_aris> nice way of spending one's summer :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ssam> ajmitch, i spoke to you several hours ago about the f-spot jpeg eating bug on powerpc, i dontloaded your patches and managed to apply them. it fixes the bug for me. thanks
<ajmitch> ok
<ssam> s/dontloaded/downloaded
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<\sh> well...I slept more then 14h from yesterday to today..but right now, i can sleep again..just came from the office
<bddebian> Heh, I know that feeling :-)
<\sh> finally one complete transportstream fcked up
<LaserJock> bddebian: would you mind taking a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/DocTodo if you have a chance?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nice
<LaserJock> bddebian: Thanks. Just getting started ;-) I am particularly interested in the To be removed section
<LaserJock> I will probably start by removing links to those pages before ever deleting them completely
<bddebian> Coolio
<LaserJock> The only problem I am having right now is that renaming a wiki page seems to break the subscription
<bddebian> Hmm
<Seveas> \sh, still here?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-28
<Sepheebear> im a little confused, are the packages in universe going to be identical to debian with changes going up to debian first?
<bddebian> Whenever possible
<Sepheebear> ok but we still use malone? does that sync with debian bts?
<bddebian> Nope
<Sepheebear> o ok
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> malone will pull from debian bts
<Sepheebear> oooo ok
<\sh> lifeless: when? :)
<lifeless> \sh: after main -> malone IIRC
<\sh> lifeless: k..and what's the ETA of soyuz?
<Seveas> 10.. 9.. 8.. 7.. 6.. 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. 1.. liftoff
<Seveas> </midnight non-humor>
<lifeless> \sh: with dapper as I understand it
<\sh> lifeless: damn...I wanted to avoid this questions..now we have to wait one day more ,)
<lifeless> \sh: #launchpad may have better answers
<\sh> lifeless: nah..u should work .. i don't want to disturb
<Sepheebear> what's soyuz? wiki link?
<lifeless> soyuz is the launchpad based distro management suite
<lifeless> like malone is the launchpad based bug tracking suite
<Sepheebear> interesting
<Sepheebear> lol STFUProtocol! https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzOneDotZero
<sivang> bddebian: how do you keep up with debian's package changes to know you need to sync up, or apply a patch?
<slomo> re
<slomo> sivang: look at what has changed from old debian version to ubuntu version and look if these changes are still needed with the new debian version
<sivang> slomo: ah, so that's basically having a debian chroot, install the package and check up. But if you do not use the specific software, how do you know it's changed?
<slomo> sivang: no... only looking at the source packages
<sivang> slomo: so you just randomly choose a package and see if it has problems/fixes etc?
<slomo> sivang: wait... maybe i should read more than the last message before answering questions ;) what exactly was your question and in which context? ;)
<slomo> sivang: you mean how to know if a package must be merged or can be synced... or how to get one package which needs to be looked at for merging or syncing?
<sivang> slomo: the first part :)
<slomo> ok, then i've answered the correct question... fine ;)
<slomo> ok, this is what i do:
<slomo> i get the plain (old) debian version, make a debdiff to our current version... take the current debian version of the package, look at the debdiff and check whether one of the changes needs to be applied again... if not -> sync, if there's at least one i readd all changes and upload this merged version
<slomo> but when dapper is open and merge-o-matic is running again you will get all of this automatically and only need to judge if the automatically merged version is correct
<sivang> slomo: I see, I wonder what writing something like merge-o-matic required, can you really decided programtically what to merge, and where to put the needed patch to merge?
<slomo> yes... in most cases it works fine... wait, i'll search for some examples ;)
<slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/monodoc/
<slomo> look at this
<Seveas> slomo, i'm working on hostname cloaks for Ubuntu members on freenode, do you want one?
<slomo> Seveas: sure... i don't know what for but it can't hurt ;)
<slomo> sivang: there you see some diffs... in REPORT it's explained what each of this diffs is good for
<Seveas> slomo, ok :)
<slomo> sivang: when you don't get a *-dropped diff everything should be fine and the -merged diff should be a good merge of debian's and our version... in other cases hand-merging of the dropped part is needed
<sivang> slomo: REPORT is machine generated?
<slomo> sivang: everything there is machine generated
<sivang> slomo: that's nice, it looks rather "intelligent" :)
<slomo> sivang: but i for one don't like merge-o-matic... i normally take the manual approach as explained above ;)
<sivang> slomo: it sounds saner, but when you have loads of packages ...
<slomo> sivang: and please don't "work" on the monodoc stuff ;) i already have a merged version here
<sivang> slomo: don't worry :) I've been busy specing and doing launchapd stuff :)
<slomo> sivang: yes but after doing some merges you normally know when merge-o-matic can be trusted and when it's better to do it by hand... for some stuff it can be really helping to use m-o-m ;)
<slomo> sivang: i don't worry... but it would be bad if we do the same work two times ;)
<slomo> Seveas: what must be done on my side for the hostname cloaking? nothing except authenticating? ;)
<sivang> anyway, good night all
<sivang> I'm going to sleep
<slomo> gn8 sivang :)
<Seveas> indeed, best is to use your nickserv password as server password
<slomo> Seveas: hmm... please explain... or give me some urls to look at ;) what's the server password and why do i need it?
<Seveas> in the server connect dialog you can enter a server password
<Seveas> if you put your nickserv password there, you will be identified in time
<Seveas> so your cloak actually works
<slomo> ok, can i test it already?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> it's all a manual process, I am now asking all members whether they want a cloak
<Seveas> and in a few days I'll send lilo a list
<slomo> ok
<LaserJock> does anybody know when the next MOTU meeting will be ?
<whiprush> LaserJock: there's a calendar on the fridge
<whiprush> nevermind
<whiprush> I don't see it on there.
<ajmitch> because some useless slacker hasn't written up the minutes
<LaserJock> I don't even remember if it was discussed but I think I kinda floated in and out at the end
<ajmitch> it was discussed
<Amaranth> is "Replaces: smeg, menueditor" the right way to say that a package replaces the smeg and menueditor pacakges?
<Amaranth> or would i need two seperate lines?
<Amaranth> also, if i have that and install the package it'll remove smeg, right?
<ajmitch> Conflicts & Replaces if it fully replaces it
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I think that one line is ok, but don't take my word for it ;-)
<ajmitch> Replaces by itself says that some files are now owned by the new package
<Amaranth> it does
<Amaranth> ok, and this'll make smeg uninstall?
<ajmitch> should do
<ajmitch> assuming that something depends on alacarte
<Amaranth> do i need Provides: smeg to make ubuntu-desktop happy (it depends on smeg)?
<ajmitch> upgrade paths are always fun
<ajmitch> best not to ask me what is best :)
<ajmitch> see what was done for mozilla-firefox -> firefox for hoary->breezy
<ajmitch> Replaces: mozilla-firefox (<< 1.0.7-0ubuntu20)
<ajmitch> Provides: www-browser, mozilla-firefox
<ajmitch> Conflicts: mozilla-firefox (<< 1.0.7-0ubuntu20)
<Amaranth> fun
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> lots of fun
<Amaranth> is the versioned conflict needed?
<ajmitch> hopefully not
<ajmitch> read some debian guides on this :)
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> i guess i'll just go with trial and error
<ajmitch> I haven't done it too often
<ajmitch> Conflicts: gnue-forms-wxgtk (<= 0.5.11)
<ajmitch> Replaces: gnue-forms-wxgtk (<= 0.5.11)
<ajmitch> this is what I did for one of my packages
<ajmitch> probably not correct :)
<Amaranth> if no one finds any major bugs in alacarte i'm releasing 0.8 next week and need to have all of this figured out for the deb
<Amaranth> i guess i'll do the version
<LaserJock> at what point will we be able to do a dist-upgrade to dapper?
<Lathiat> when it opens
<Lathiat> sabdfl says if soyuz doesnt land by tuesday
<Lathiat> we'll revert to katie
<Lathiat> and switch later in the cycle
<LaserJock> oh, ok so by tuesday the archives will have a dapper dist?
<Lathiat> hopefully
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<Kyral> Yo!
<LaserJock> How's it going Kyral?
<Kyral> Just got back from an ACM Programming Contest in Montreal :D
<LaserJock> ACM?
<Kyral> Association of Computing Machinery
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<ajmitch> how'd you go?
<Kyral> How'd I go or dow did it go?
<Kyral> HOLY ****
<Kyral> 117 emails from the Kernel devel list
<ajmitch> is that all?
<Amaranth> pfft, i get more than that from the gnome lists in 24 hours
<Kyral> yah....
<ajmitch> you should try debian-devel during a good flamewar
<Kyral> No thanks
<Amaranth> bleh, i unsubsribed from that around the time of the fork or not thing
<Amaranth> it's a spoon, damnit!
<LaserJock> lol
<Kyral> Did Dapper open yet?
<Amaranth> Kyral: read #ubuntu-devel topic ;)
<Amaranth> but no, not yet
<Amaranth> <Lathiat> sabdfl says if soyuz doesnt land by tuesday
<Amaranth> <Lathiat> we'll revert to katie
<Amaranth> <Lathiat> and switch later in the cycle
<Kyral> WTF is that? Mr.Shuttleworth's personal code to attack MS?!
<Amaranth> soyuz is the package building part of launchpad
<Kyral> ah
<Amaranth> katie is what has been used for warty, hoary, and breezy
<Kyral> I was thinking Soyuz like the satellite
<Amaranth> actually it's the name of the space ship he rode to the ISS in :)
<Amaranth> well, the "model", i guess
<Kyral> yah that ;P
<Kyral> I knew it was a Russian Spacecraft
<Kyral> you wanna see a stupid programming error?
<Kyral> for( int i = 0; i < n; n++ )
<Lathiat> whats stupid about that?
<Amaranth> that could actually have a use
<Lathiat> thats a very commonly used construct
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> i see
<Kyral> its an infinite loop
<Lathiat> baha
<Lathiat> it could be usefull
<Lathiat> but probably not
<Amaranth> i guess hal does this cool 1.5 loop thing, so i'd believe anything
<Lathiat> lol
<Lathiat> what does it do
<Amaranth> and some of the other tricks i've seen
<Kyral> but it like translate into a metaphor for a lot of things in the world
<Kyral> or
<Kyral> if ( n > 50 && n < 2/3 )
<Amaranth> http://primates.ximian.com/~fejj/blog/archives/000033.html
<LaserJock> is bugzilla still being used or is it completely replaced by Malone?
<moyogo> LaserJock: bugzilla is still being used
<moyogo> LaserJock: but new bugs only go to malone, i think
<Lathiat> the idea is to phase bugzilla out in dapper
<Lathiat> i think
<Amaranth> afaik bugzilla is still the place to go for main bugs right now
<Amaranth> i haven't seen a mail to the lists about using malone
<Kyral> Hey I'm gonna be redoing my Wiki page tomorrow in prep for applying for Ubuntu Membership, anyone mind looking it over when I'm done and critiquing>
<Amaranth> Kyral: if you've closed any bugs make sure you list them all by name (closed them by fixing them)
<Amaranth> just a tip before you start
<Kyral> Yah I've done that
<Lathiat> include as much as possible
<Lathiat> mailing lists
<Lathiat> posts for uploads (breezy-changes archives)
<Lathiat> wiki pages
<Lathiat> bugs on both bugz & malone
<Kyral> Like subscribed to?
<Lathiat> a description of yourself
<Lathiat> what you do outside ubuntu
<Lathiat> what you want to do in ubuntu
<ajmitch> Kyral: mailing list posts
<Kyral> I haven't uploaded to Breezy Updates, not have power yet
<ajmitch> they're looking for contributions to ubuntu
<Lathiat> take a look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrentLloyd for an example
<ajmitch> and 2 bugs on a wiki page wouldn't cut it IMHP
<Kyral> Mez and someone else is supposed to upload them for me
<Lathiat> Kyral: well, you may have gotten someone to add fixes for you
<Lathiat> Kyral: or upload for you
<Lathiat> Kyral: thats a good step
<Kyral> ajmitch, Thats why I'm redoing it ;P
<Kyral> Is REVU still in freeze?
<ajmitch> Kyral: right, you said you had done that..
<ajmitch> revu is never frozen
<ajmitch> since it's not part of ubuntu
<Kyral> yah and I fixed that versioning bug ;P
<ajmitch> which was?
<Kyral> The one I made?
<Amaranth> oh dear, layoffs at novell
<Kyral> Yanno how you told me I incremented the patch version wrong?
<ajmitch> Kyral: sorry, but I don't recall all the bugs that I see
<ajmitch> after seeing a number of them a day, they sort of fade out of memory
<Kyral> sorry...
<Kyral> Anyway I'm prolly gonna wait until gtkorphan gets pushed through REVU until I apply for membership
<ajmitch> ok..
<ajmitch> gtkorphan is something you packaged?
<Kyral> Yah
<ajmitch> please fix up debian/copyright
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> Copyright (C) 2005 by Fabio Marzocca
<Kyral> Oyah....
<ajmitch> you need name & year put in properly
<Kyral> Gotcha, will do :D
<ajmitch> k :)
<Kyral> I just figure having a package in Universe will look good on Ubuntu Membership
<ajmitch> it helps
<hub> ghawd
<hub> I have to fix all these packages waiting on revu
<hub> maybe tomorrow
<hub> time for bed
<ajmitch> night hub
<Kyral> I should fire up Zen on this thing....
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> Xen ;P
<Amaranth> goodnight all
<Kyral> Night all
<zakame> hi all
<jmg> guys is any work being done in dapper for a new init scheme?
<jmg> something to make stuff boot faster?
<jmg> well, the os
<zakame> jmg: hmmm, I think the guys at -devel know better, here at -motu work is on universe packages...
<nnonix> I'm thinking of filing a big report for network-manager (which would be my first bug report) and wondered if someone (familiar with network-manager) here might want to check my logic before I do so? I've had no real feedback from ppl in #Ubuntu.
<nnonix> correction "...a bug report for network-manager ...."
<zakame> nnonix: what's it all about?
<nnonix> ok, clean install of Breezy on a T42 laptop. absolutely no other network aplications installed ...
<nnonix> I install network-manager from apt, which also installs bind as a dependancy ...
<nnonix> upon reboot I get no name resolution but a restart of bind fixes that problem.
<nnonix> bind starts on its own .... but then network-manager calls bind directly ....
<nnonix> in checking my syslog I find this .... http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3495
<nnonix> which indicates (to me anyway) that network-manager's direct call to bind conflicts with the normal bind process running already.
<nnonix> Since the config file that network-manager uses to call bind directly is overwritten, there is no option to modify the bind call, therefore I figured it has to be a bug in the network-manager package.
<nnonix> The crazy thing is, some don't have this problem, but I have found 3 other people in #Ubuntu over the past few days with the exact same problem.
<nnonix> the end.
<zakame> nnonix: hmmm... have you tried posting this on the -devel list?
<nnonix> I have not.
<nnonix> I wanted a 2nd opinion to make sure I wasn't missing something here.
<zakame> hmmm... 3's a trend, so perhaps you ought to contact those other people who experienced that bug, and definitely post it on bugzilla
<zakame> do you have a bugfix/patch for this?
<nnonix> The fix (for me anyway) is to compile network-manager without bind support but still install bind9 as a dependancy.
<nnonix> although i consider this more of a workaround
<nnonix> I don't know if this would break someone in another configuration AND I would think the config used for the direct bind call could be modified so it does NOT conflict with the currently running bind process.
<nnonix> so the short answer is no.
<zakame> which is why bringing this up at the -devel list would do good :)
<nnonix> ok,  I will do so, thanks.
<zakame> no problem
<sivang> morning all
<ryu> moin
<spayne> mornin' all
<[Chameleon] > hi
* zyga runs away
<herve> hello
<tseng> i wonder if cedega will play civ4..
<slomo> \sh: ping?
<HiddenWolf> Hi, what do I need to be able to close a bug as invalid in malone?
<HiddenWolf> \sh, dholbach?
<HiddenWolf> NOTABUG: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/3195
<HiddenWolf> INVALID (for now): https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/3119
<HiddenWolf> NOTABUG: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bug/3229
<\sh> HiddenWolf: rejected
<\sh> with a reason why ;)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, I'd like to be able to close these kinds of bugs myself, what do I need to do for that permission?
<\sh> HiddenWolf: I think u have to be ubuntu-core-dev
<\sh> HiddenWolf: i'm not sure...ask in #launchpad
<HiddenWolf> hm
<HiddenWolf> *grumble*
* HiddenWolf shakes head: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kcheckgmail/+bug/3486
<HiddenWolf> should be closed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/tor/+bug/1102
<Kyral> Hiddenwolf it is closed
<Kyral> its marked as Fixed
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, yeah, someone got to it already
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, and I just figured out I can do it myself.
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> New around here?
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, trying to find my way around the horrid UI that is malone.
<Kyral> Its not to bad
<HiddenWolf> I prefer bugzilla so far.
* Kyral shrugs
<HiddenWolf> by far, in fact.
<Kyral> I'm new on the bugbusters/MOTU-Wannabes scene so I've only used Malone
<HiddenWolf> The information I want is there, but it is all scattered about.
<HiddenWolf> it's been oversimplified too much to my taste.
<herve> everything I forget you must click on the package name to have access to secret options!
* Kyral falls down
<herve> HiddenWolf, we can close 3486 because kcheckgmail was upgraded?
<herve> or change the status?
<Kyral> Make sure it works
<HiddenWolf> herve, I have no idea what the guy means
<HiddenWolf> herve, I don't use kcheckgmail myself, but if it's a newer version, then yeah, i say close it.
<HiddenWolf> debian has 0.5.4, we have 0.5.3a-1-build1
<HiddenWolf> I'm guessing he says it works in .4 but not in .3
<herve> that "build" means the debian package will go through when we open dapper and autosync
<herve> so I can close it I think
<HiddenWolf> herve, don't do that before it's actually fixed, or things will be forgotten. :)
<herve> we don't even know what to fix!
<herve> or he'll file a new report on the most recent version
<HiddenWolf> *chuckle* Give him a while to clarify. :)
<herve> ok, cancelling my edit :-)
<herve> 3229 closed
<HiddenWolf> herve, he had a piont there. firefox should be shipped with that human theme.
<herve> 3119 too
<HiddenWolf> or rather, firefox should be crashed, burned, and replaced with epiphany, but still.
<herve> hell no
<herve> but I made a test
<herve> firefox followed my coloured theme as possible as it could
<HiddenWolf> herve, and shame on you for stealing my karma. ;)
<herve> and I don't have that gnomefx theme
<herve> I'll buy you a beer ;-)
<HiddenWolf> Do the french have decent beer?
<Mortas> ehm do the french have beer?
<herve> I can't believe what I read!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> herve: kick them ,-)
<herve> 3195 closed
<HiddenWolf> \sh, watch it, I bite. :)
<\sh> i mean ... paris == france, but france != paris ,-) so i think in some areas u'll get good beer and not this heineken stuff
<HiddenWolf> \sh, heineken sucks, agreed. :)
<sivang> \sh: heineken is considered one of the best beers in .IL :)
<herve> is heineken beer, I can't prove it
<herve> and yes, Paris is a bad idea anyway
<HiddenWolf> herve, no, it's pilsener.
<\sh> sivang: well...u should try *real* beer ,-)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, what do you consider real beer? :)
<sivang> \sh: lol
<\sh> HiddenWolf: krombacher pils (german) tschech budwiser, or even irish beer
<\sh> HiddenWolf: or milk stout from ZA ,)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, You've got serious gaps in your education. :)
<\sh> HiddenWolf: but warsteiner, becks or heineken is no beer at all ,-)
<\sh> the dark millers in NC, US was also quite nice...
<HiddenWolf> \sh, compared to Budweiser, it's beer, trust me. ;)
<\sh> HiddenWolf: I'm not talking about US budweiser ,-)
<Mortas> please gentlemen, watch your language
<HiddenWolf> I usually stick to Dutch or Belgium premium brands. :)
<Mortas> budweiser, blech
<\sh> pilsner urquell..i don't know the english name is my fav
<Mortas> hmm
<Mortas> do others also have the 'RequestExpired' issue when logged in on Launchpad and trying to see the motu assignedbugs
<Mortas> I'm starting to get this urge to torture mallone by now
<HiddenWolf> I'm aching for dapper. :)
<xhaker> hey doko
<xhaker> you there?
<ivoks> hi
<xhaker> hey
<xhaker> ivoks, do you happen to know how to use doko's rep for openoffice?
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> sudo -s ; echo "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/OOo2 ./" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
<ivoks> apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade
<xhaker> hehe
<xhaker> didn't know that ./ trick
<xhaker> lol
<xhaker> thanks
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> no one here?
<ivoks> everybody is on a flight to montreal ;......(
<herve> no :-(
<herve> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi herve
<ivoks> long time no see
<ivoks> how are you?
<herve> quite fine
<ivoks> nice
<herve> and you? you returned to school?
<ivoks> in mart i'll come to france, once again :)
<ivoks> returned? never left :))
<ivoks> i got a job at redhat partner in croatia :/
<ivoks> but i'm deploying ubuntu :)
<herve> why? that's nice
<herve> hehe
<ivoks> what why? :)
<herve> bazaar bugs seem ignored, sad
<HiddenWolf> herve, I'm pretty sure that all the canonical guys are working on Launchpad atm, to make sure it's workable for dapper.
<Mortas> at least we hope so
<HiddenWolf> otherwise, just bug the hell out of the bazaar guys. :)
<ogra> luckily not *all* the canonical guys, only the launchpad team ;)
<HiddenWolf> heh
<HiddenWolf> well, if this launchpad migration doesn't go well, dapper will get nowhere very quickly. :)
<Mortas> is there anything usefull I could do except bug triaging
<Mortas> it's hurting what's left of my brain by now
<HiddenWolf> Mortas, translate, or make me some freevo packages. :)
<Mortas> translating good point
<Mortas> although my written dutch sucks, but I could give it a try
<HiddenWolf> I'd rather see the packages. :)
<Mortas> hehe
* Mortas is taking a look at what freevo is
<HiddenWolf> There's a fix out that'll make it work with python 2.4, but there are no new debs
<Mortas> ooh shiney
<Mortas> hmm I wanted to get me a tv tuner card anyway
<HiddenWolf> Mortas, it isn't quite sane, but it's less cracked up than tvtime. :)
<HiddenWolf> eh, mythtv
<Mortas> ehm wait, it's almost my birthday, I'm gonna get someone else to buy me a tv tuner
<Mortas> oh right, there was this 'I want this in universe' list of packages
<Mortas> yay, let's give that a poke
<Kyral> Hey all
<Kyral> Hey I have a question about were to direct a very serious bug, but its not with software...
<herve> bugtracking people? :-)
<Kyral> no..
<Kyral> its more like a couple people I know who have the same video card in their laptops have had it "burn out" completely after installing Ubuntu
<herve> wow
<Kyral> to the point were they had to send the laptop back to the manufacturer for a replacement
<Kyral> I know its a PCI Express ATI card, but thats it....
<herve> it may depends at which moment the burn occured
<herve> e.g., kernel initialisation or xorg startup
<Kyral> I'm really worried about this, partially because I was the one who urged one of them to install Ubuntu (and it was thier first Linux experiance)
<herve> I'm thinking more people would have complained
<herve> what is the manufacturer name?
<Kyral> I know one was an Acer
<Kyral> I dunno about the other ones
<herve> ho, not the same one
<Kyral> I know the latest series of kernels (2.6.13.4) has PCI Express support
<Kyral> but I don't know about Breezy's kernels
<herve> that still could be a bad batch (?) in the ATI production
<herve> I can't say
<Kyral> I don't know, I asked my friend who I know who had the problem to gather info from the other people
<Kyral> Before I draft up an email to send to the Devel list
<herve> I'll say check for bugs in bugzilla at first
<herve> and open one against the kernel
<herve> it will be reasigned if you got the wrong component
<Kyral> Yah this is why I'm asking him to gather much info
<Kyral> So I can scan the lists
<Kyral> I don't use PCI-E or ATI so I can't try it out
<Kyral> I kinda feel responsible for this one....
<herve> I can imagine
<Kyral> I can't imagine its just on Ubuntu though...
<herve> it's not even like they chose the wrong option and erased their windows partition
<Kyral> Its most likely X or the Kernel
<herve> that could be a patch we only have
<herve> or only miss
<Kyral> Next time I'll compile a custom version of the 2.6.13.4 for them
<Kyral> enable all modules and options for full hardware support
<herve> they're eager to try again? :-)
<Kyral> One is, if I can prove that its fixed
<Kyral> I mean he lit up when I installed Breezy Preview (Been trying Hoary previously) and everything WORKED
<JanC> I have PCIE ATI laptop graphics (X700)
<JanC> works fine here...
<Treenaks> for me too
<Treenaks> fglrx only though
<Treenaks> ati breaks horribly, I'll show that to daniels next week :)
<JanC> even worked on joary after a lot fiddling & googling
<Kyral> we had fglrx installs
<JanC> hoary
* zyga is crushed :-(
<JanC> works with both ati & fglrx on hoary & breezy here, but not out-of-the-box on hoary  ;)
<JanC> there are other X-cards from ATI
<JanC> X500, X600, X800 & X900 IIRC  :)
<Treenaks> XXX
<JanC> and probably more
<JanC> Acer and a lot of other laptop manufacturers use the same laptop model with other options (you can even buy a barebone version of it)
<Kyral> hmm...
* Kyral shakes his head
<Kyral> Should I email someone if I wanna change an Ubuntu Wiki Page they made?
<JanC> no, unless you think it's really important, or you're not sure about it
<Kyral> I'm not sure...
<Kyral> I wanna merge this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TerminalHowto?highlight=%28Terminal%29
<JanC> you can always add a comment...
<Kyral> with my Terminal For Beginners Guide on the Ubuntu Forums http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=402620
<JanC> hm, that wiki page is a bit outdated   :)
<Kyral> Yah thats what I thought
<JanC> Terminal is in another location
<Treenaks> Kyral: Terminal for beginners? Just google for Bash for Beginners :)
<JanC> Treenaks: that's not the same...
<Kyral> Treenaks, the people on the ABT Forum loved it ;P
<Treenaks> JanC: "how to use the command line"
<Kyral> I couldn't get it stickied so I thought I'd wiki it ;P
<JanC> Treenaks: which is again something different  ;)
<JanC> but probably a better description of the howto
<Kyral> Treenaks: Put yourself as a fresh Windows user
<Kyral> In this unknown Linux landscape
<Kyral> Are you gonna know what BASH is? ;P
<Treenaks> Kyral: when I was a fresh Windows user, Windows 3.1 was just new, and I had been running DOS for years
<Kyral> okay, a MODERN Windows user ;P
<JanC> I started with Windows 2.01   :)
<Kyral> You all know what I mean....
<JanC> Kyral: I knew when I first came to linux, but I agree most won't have a clue  :)
<Kyral> Check out my guide. People seemed to like it ;D
<JanC> I will look at it later
<JanC> have to go now
<Kyral> Yah I need HALO
<Kyral> I'll email the guy to be nice
<herve> bye
<tseng> anyone seen j^
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-29
<theine> Hi, if I install vflib3, I get the following error message many times:
<theine> Debian::Defoma::Id::defoma_id_register at line 37 in /var/lib/defoma/scripts/vflib3.defoma: (AlMothnna Bold, /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-arabeyes/ae_AlMothnna_bold.ttf, 20): Illegal argument.
<theine> Many times but each time for a different font that is
<Kyral> Ooops, hit the wrong button....
<LaserJock> oops ;-)
<Kyral> Quite interesting experiment. I was in the computer labs and I started an Ethereal trace. While it was tracing I portscanned my computer in my room with nmap
<Kyral> While the nmap results were what I expected (SSH was open, which was expected because I set my iptables to let me SSH from those labs)
<Kyral> the Ethereal trace was most interesting
<LaserJock> Kyral: how so?
<Kyral> All the packets it fired at my computer
<Kyral> it was a flood!
<lifeless> what did you expect ?
<Kyral> Well, what was better was that they were all dropped ;P
<Kyral> This is boring. I can't wait for Dapper to open. I'm not used to not having updates for weeks
<ajmitch> Kyral: sid
<Kyral> Nah, it would be too hard to get to it from my current config, though it would be interesting
<Kyral> I mean is it just me or have no updates been released in like the past few weeks?
<ajmitch> no updates for..?
<Kyral> Breezy
<ajmitch> the last one I saw for breezy was 3 days ago
<Kyral> if there have been it hasn't been for anything I have
<ajmitch> probably not
<ajmitch> it's only critical fixes
* ajmitch is waiting to hear back from mdz & pitti for his fixes
<Kyral> yah...after months of loads of daily updates, it feels wierd not having them
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<\sh> moins
<pef> hello
<Treenaks> g'morning
<dholbach> good morning
<lucas> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hai lucas
<dholbach> hellas ogra
<zyga> hey ogra, lucas, dholbach in fifo order
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> morning MOTUS!
<Mortas> moin
<dholbach> hey reinhard, hey mortas
<_Tonio_> morning all
<dholbach> hey _Tonio_
<_Tonio_> fine ?
<_Tonio_> dholbach: We finally organised with JRe and a few personns on #kubuntu-fr and we have build a little repo
<_Tonio_> backporting to breezy and submitting a maximum packages for dapper ;)
<dholbach> why do you do an own repo?
<_Tonio_> why ?
<dholbach> we have an official backports team now
<_Tonio_> yep, but how to submit packages ?
<dholbach> we can mail to ubuntubackports@ and let stuff be backported
<_Tonio_> well I'd be glad to add them to the backports
<dholbach> stuff that is in the archive can be backported (if it makes sense)
<dholbach> revu is the other way to submit packages
<_Tonio_> dholbach: isn't backports supposed to be for already packages applications ?
<dholbach> for stuff that is already in the archive yet
<dholbach> yes
<_Tonio_> okay, in fact we are going to submit all of those packages or dapper
<_Tonio_> and provide a breezy version
<dholbach> hrm
* dholbach doesnt like the idea of external repos
<_Tonio_> dholbach: I can understand
<_Tonio_> but well, if those cannot be added to the backports......
<_Tonio_> getting wlassistant or codeine packages can be interesting for breezy users waiting for dapper ;)
<dholbach> i think we should test stuff a bit in dapper
<dholbach> but ok, i can't stop you from doing it :)
<_Tonio_> but anyway, if you have another solution than building a repo, I'd be glad to go in another way
<dholbach> none that would make you happy
<_Tonio_> dholbach: understand me, I've done a repo because backports isn't supposed to host new packages ;)
<dholbach> *nod*
<_Tonio_> our goal is to see all our packages in universe
<_Tonio_> that's the goal and will always be ;)
<dholbach> the problem is: what will do with bug reports? ask first from which repo they are?
<_Tonio_> yes I understand this............
<siretart> _Tonio_: I'd also suggest getting your stuff/packages into dapper, and ensure that the source package also builds in breezy
<siretart> _Tonio_: and you'll get official backports for free
<_Tonio_> siretart: that's what we're gonna do
<_Tonio_> but getting a package in dapper can take month ;)
<_Tonio_> in fact any package added to dapper would be deleted
<siretart> _Tonio_: then we should work on this problem
<dholbach> that's life
<_Tonio_> dholbach: ;)
<dholbach> honestly, we work a lot to get rid of external repos
<dholbach> because they're a bit problematic
<dholbach> we worked hard to integrate backports into ubuntu itself (as an official project)
<_Tonio_> yep
<dholbach> before each release, we try to integrate as much from apt-get.org as possible
<dholbach> and we have a big bunch of MOTUs who try to get in the best of the OSS world as a package
<dholbach> you know that packages in external repos get stale
<dholbach> and they're often buggy (no offense towards you, you do a good job)
<_Tonio_> no but I know that you're right....
<dholbach> and to ask in a bug tracker "where did you get the package" is really not, what i want to do as a standard question
<dholbach> i understand, that users press us to get as much software out as possible
<_Tonio_> the problem is that you know, it is VERY frustrating to see that an application that is not added at the release date will probably never be, until in the next version
<_Tonio_> ;)
<dholbach> and that we are all annoyed after waiting for reviews/...
<_Tonio_> no but I understand your point of view.....
<dholbach> but that's necessary to ensure quality
<dholbach> that's how we invite people to play with dapper
<dholbach> because that's the development cycle
<_Tonio_> yep, I'll send that log to JRe if you don't mind
<dholbach> no problem... i can't stop you from doing it, really
<_Tonio_> well the goal will not change, but we may use the repo only for private use
<_Tonio_> dholbach: I wanna contribute, not creating problems :)
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> i'll try to help you achieving that goal
<Lathiat> i guess the problem here is that the backports mandate is only to backport new packages from dapper right? as such theres a hole people want to fill
<_Tonio_> the goal will be the same, the result will be the same, except that we will have to wait for the packages to be added ;)
<_Tonio_> patience
<_Tonio_> but that's better for everyone and I perfectly understand this
<dholbach>  /me hugs _Tonio_ :)
<_Tonio_> dholbach: ^_^
<_Tonio_> what could be interesting is maybe allow some new packages in backports
<dholbach> that should be discussed on ubuntu-{devel,backports}@
<_Tonio_> I mean, it is said and know that backports repos are not safe for stability
<_Tonio_> and there has been new packages in backports in the past
<_Tonio_> remember java, w32codecs and many more
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> those were the unofficial ones
<dholbach> we can't ship sun java and w32*
<_Tonio_> yes... rules are today different
<dholbach> ah ok, yes
<_Tonio_> dholbach: understand me, many many people for example are using wifi
<_Tonio_> and one of the best tools for this (and maybe the only one for kde) is wlassistant
<dholbach> i understand that perfectly
<dholbach> some of my packages weren't brought in either
<_Tonio_> the package didn't go in universe for lack of time reasons that I can understand
<dholbach> i'd say, get it into dapper asap
<dholbach> the archive isnt open yet, so we could do some reviews too
<dholbach> then discuss NEW packages in ubuntu-backports@ on the mailing lists
<_Tonio_> but well, it's problematic to say that something giving a response to one of breezy's problems cannot be added ;)
<_Tonio_> that's what we wanted to provide, but anyway, it creates more problems that it resolves so, private use, and let's go for dapper
<dholbach> maybe we can establish the need for those and create rules for those types of backports
<_Tonio_> for specific packages that would be good
<_Tonio_> it is not very common, but a few packages are really filling a hole sometime, and wlassistant is one of this
<_Tonio_> dholbach: the repo is closed to the public, let's go for private use, and concentrate on dapper
<dholbach> ok :)
<_Tonio_> dholbach: I finally understood that you don't want a Suse-like package management ^_^
<_Tonio_> I left Suse for this reason ;)
<dholbach> suse-like?
<_Tonio_> have you managed to work with Suse ?
<_Tonio_> repos are a complete mess !
<dholbach> ah yes :)
<dholbach> i remotely remember :)
<herzi> dholbach: morging
<herzi> morning
<dholbach> hellas herzi
<dholbach> so you made it to hamburg alright :)
<herzi> yes
<dholbach> i suppose you slept well
<herzi> and it was a great trip: 19:45 the ice starts at berlin zoo; 19:50 my notebook starts playing music (using mplayer because of that gstreamer-alsa bug); 20:50 the album finishes, i wake up and there's only 25 minutes left
<dholbach> sounds like good timing
<herzi> yes, the train was 5 minutes earler than expected, just nice to see that train can arrive in time
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> a bunch of zope packages are getting removed from debian since noone loves them
<ajmitch> I wonder what we should do with them
<ajmitch> since I know that at least 1 of them on the list is used :)
<HiddenWolf> ajmitch, seriously, nobody loves zope? ;)
<ajmitch> :P
<mahangu_> anybody know how to make a cvs checkout of a previous revision?
<ajmitch> mahangu_: cvs co -r <revision>
<ajmitch> iirc
<lifeless> mahangu_: hahahahaha
<lifeless> mahangu_: cvs does not have that concept.
<lifeless> mahangu_: the closest you can come is date based, or use one of the wrapper scripts like cscvs/cvsps etc
<mahangu_> lifeless, what's the syntax ajmitch just used?
<lifeless> it checks out a single files revision, or a tag.
<lifeless> i.e. if you tagged 'pre-release-1.4' you can cvs co -r pre-relase-1.4
<lifeless> likewise, if you want foo.c rev 1.3, you can cvs co -r 1.3 foo.c
<lifeless> but rev numbers are per file not repo whide
<lifeless> *wide*
<lifeless> so cvs -r 1.3 ..project
<lifeless> will give you *very* strange results
<ajmitch> lifeless: silly me, I haven't been using cvs for too long :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: np:)
<lifeless> its not like you *expect* software to be brain damaged
<mahangu_> ah
<ajmitch> I've been caught up using svn at work
<mahangu_> lifeless, currently only one file
<mahangu_> should be alright?
<ajmitch> & cursing its poor branching & merging
<lifeless> ajmitch: bzr, bzr, bZR, BZR
<ajmitch> oh I'd like to :)
<Kyral> *groan* Another Bug against VLC to reject
<Kyral> people really hate that wxwidgets switch....
<HiddenWolf> Kyral, unusable vlc was worse
<spacey> that related to why vlc is so ugly now?
<HiddenWolf> spacey, yeah, the new version was horribly broken the day before release, so they switched to the older toolkit.
<Kyral> and people haven't stopped complaining
<spacey> but before it was looking good and working
<Kyral> personally I never used the Playlist so I didn't understand until crimsun explained it to me
<HiddenWolf> spacey, it wasn't, at all.
<spacey> i could play my movies
<spacey> :D
<spacey> worked fine
<Kyral> Yah same here. I have half a mind to build a VLC against 2.6 and release it Backports style
<Kyral> Your Mileage My Vary ;P
<spacey> :>
<Kyral> Thing is building it against Sid is a PAIN. And I have class so cya
<slomo> \sh: ping?
<dholbach> hi slomo
<slomo> hi dholbach :)
<zakame> good evening pht :)
<marcin> hi all
<marcin> got a question - is there available package with php manual?
<marcin> and if not (I think it isn't but not sure) then why? is this about license?
<Lathiat> no but www.php.net is great, www.php.net/function and it does a search :)
<marcin> I would like to prepare such package but in texi format for emacs but license is not gpl - I'll have to ask for permisiion
<Lathiat> also i see a php3-doc, none for later versions tho, weird
<Lathiat> you can docs in various formats from php.net, no idea on the license
<marcin> and not sure if they will allow to modify their documentation
<marcin> it's PHP License - you can distribute but need permission form PHP
<marcin> it's called Open Publication License, v1.0
<marcin> http://www.opencontent.org/openpub
<Lathiat> open pub?
<Lathiat> beer free too? :)
<marcin> could be :)
<Lathiat> doubtful :(
<marcin> question where is this pub - hope that not too far from me
<marcin> anyway I would like to patch emacs info-look.el
<marcin> and add support for context sensitive help mode for php
<marcin> but the problem is with format - I need to convert docbook to texi/info format (but it's my problem)
<marcin> and another thing is that license
<lucas> dholbach: you there ?
<dholbach> yes
<lucas> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<lucas> the "Thoughts about management of packages in universe"
<lucas> this applies to all MOTU teams, not just ruby, so I'd like to move it elsewhere
<lucas> but I'm not sure where
<dholbach> lucas: hmm
<lucas> (I know there are some mistakes in this)
<dholbach> lucas: of course being in sync with debian is good
<dholbach> lucas: but this shouldn't be the only goal of a MOTU*Team
<\sh> slomo: pong
<lucas> dholbach: I know. however, i'm not interested in forking debian packages inside MOTURuby
<dholbach> lucas: you focus quite heavily on it... i mean, seeing things realistically and not clinging to goals we can't achieve is ok, but if we feel the need to get a new version in or do things differently than debian, then we should do it
<Lathiat> 2/3 of those scripts down the bottom already exist
<dholbach> lucas: it has nothing to do with forks
<lucas> dholbach: currently, MOTURuby has done *nothing*
<dholbach> lucas: if we see the need for a change and we can justify it, we should go for it
<lucas> I'd prefer to do this rather than nothing
<dholbach> lucas: you have to be patient
<dholbach> lucas: we had a release in between
<dholbach> lucas: and no archive to upload to
<slomo> \sh: can you tell me something about s9y? ;) is it really the best blogging system available? what are the advantages over wordpress for example?
<\sh> slomo: it is...
<lucas> Lathiat: where ? where is it documented ?
<\sh> slomo: automatic trackback determination
<Lathiat> no, just some stuff ajmitch & i have hacked up
<\sh> slomo: works with mysql and postgres
<lucas> Lathiat: then you should make them available in a package or sthing
<\sh> slomo: easy to install/update
<\sh> slomo: and plugin installer from the net
<Lathiat> indeed
<Lathiat> their in a bzr repo somewhere
<dholbach> lucas: i really appreciate your efforts and i see your point, but we have to create visions and ideas. "don't deviate, because we have not idea, if we succeed" is a no-go and never was the "motu attitude" :)
<slomo> \sh: can it import entries from the wordpress database for easy migration?
<\sh> slomo: very good spam protection...captcha handling included
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah, I'll put them up over UBZ or something :)
<\sh> slomo: it can handle imports from several blogs..via RSS2 feeds
<Lathiat> ajmitch: :)
<dholbach> lucas: if you're incontent with how things are run, let's talk about it in the team (motu meeting maybe) and we'll try to get the ruby team there
<ajmitch> Lathiat: they're on tiber but in an old format bzr repo, and I've been cleaning them up since then
<slomo> \sh: ok, hm... i think i'll do a testinstall in the next days :) any advices you can give me? ;)
<lucas> dholbach: we really need a mailing list for this. I don't have time to spend 3 hours in an IRC meeting discussing this
<lucas> (like the other evening)
<dholbach> lucas: i hope you don't say "i don't have the time to discuss this", but alright, let's take it to ubuntu-devel@
<dholbach> lucas: because i appreaciate the ruby efforts (having no clue about ruby at all :))
<\sh> slomo: well...create an mysql/postgres db, a user and a password, db should have all rights for the user...imagemagick install or libgd (i prefer imagemagick), $DOCROOT/uploads should have write permissions for the apache user, enable mod_rewrite...and after doing all this (unpacking the software before all that) just point your browser to http://your.install.tld/ that's it
<\sh> slomo: .htaccess should be enabled for the docroot
<\sh> slomo: that's all..really...no patching, no strange installation stuff..
<slomo> \sh: does it support something like the wordpress permalinks? ;)
<slomo> \sh: and would you recommend 0.8.5 or 0.9-beta?
<\sh> slomo: permalinks are supported
<\sh> slomo: latest SVN ,-)
<ogra> lucas, mail to ubuntu-devel as i said the other day...
<slomo> \sh: hmm... ok =) is it safe to use?
<\sh> slomo: yes
<\sh> what's the problem with ruby?
<lucas> ajmitch: could you release them soon ? so I can review them/improve them/send patches
<Treenaks> \sh: it derailed?
<slomo> \sh: thanks... will try it later :)
<slomo> ajmitch: did you already look at my packages and xsp? ;)
<\sh> Treenaks: hmm...I thought ruby was the name of the maid in one tv series long time ago
<aboe> I got a question about building packages...can I ask it here??
<Treenaks> aboe: go ahead
<\sh> meeting...bbl
<aboe> I made a buildscript that will build deb packages from a cvs source
<aboe> I used anothers script to make it..but don't know if it will work...
<aboe> can you take a look at it...
<slomo> \sh: is the sqlite backend for s9y usable?
<tseng> hm, sqlite blog?
<tseng> i am sold
* Mithrandir likes pyblosxom.
<tseng> i used it for a bit, it was nice
<tseng> but i cant make it look very pretty
<Mithrandir> oh, why?
<tseng> i know html and css and all taht
<tseng> im just not artsy enough
<tseng> the themes on the site are awful
<slomo> tseng: hehe same for me ;)
* tseng wonders if he should switch from svn to bzr now or later
<ogra> NOW !!
<ogra> even better: yesterday
<ogra> (requires a bit of time travelling though)
* sivang would have switched, but he doesn't have any trees to maintain :-(
<ogra> sivang, just pull some other trees and get familiar with it :)
<tseng> i have my /usr/local/bin and /var/www/myapp in svn for two servers
<tseng> which run basically the same code, but one is production
* Nafallo never used any RCS before bzr ;-)
<tseng> it might be cool to have local RCS and merging 2 ways
<tseng> since i do make fixes on production sometimes
* Yagisan still uses RCS
<tseng> bzr is an odd command to type
<slomo> tseng: tell me how your migration from svn to bzr was after you finished it ;)
<tseng> i just checked everything in
<tseng> i need to figure out how to make it ignore files
<tseng> like propedit svn:ignore
<lifeless> bzr ignore
<tseng> oh that is much nicer
<tseng>  bzr ignore *.rrd
<tseng> :D
<tseng> bzr: ERROR: unknown command 'update'
<Mithrandir> ITYM, pull?
<Mithrandir> or merge
<tseng> makes sense, sortof
<tseng> slomo: id say im done, besides setting up trac module
<tseng> which is not a priority
<slomo> tseng: already?! oh... =) i'll migrate next weekend ;)
<tseng> i just did svn export and bzr init, bzr add *, bzr commit
<Nafallo> tseng: you know about tailor? :-P
<tseng> i just looked at it
<tseng> i dont care about the previous changes
<Nafallo> ah, oki :-)
<slomo> oh... s9y works fine with sqlite backend ;)
<tseng> that bzrweb site is down
<tseng> oh nice
<tseng> link?
<Nafallo> DapperDrake: changed nick or something? ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, thats Seveas' logbotafaik
<Nafallo> ehm... we need two logbots now?
<ogra> no idea, ask Seveas
<Nafallo> he got highlighted now so... ;-)
<ogra> we could highlight Seveas even more to get more attention :)
<Treenaks> ogra: /msg Seveas <ctrl+g>
<sivang> Treenaks: hehe, that's cruel
<Treenaks> sivang: it works on my coworkers
<sivang> Treenaks: did it work? :)
<Treenaks> sivang: yes
<tseng> lifeless: is it safe to assume that any bzr branch is as good as the original?
<tseng> lifeless: ie, i can throw away the temp dir i imported after bzr export
<lifeless> tseng: econtext
<lifeless> tseng: I am getting ready to travel
<tseng> k
<lifeless> may I suggest #bzr ?
<tseng> hm sounds like a nice place to idel
<tseng> thanks
* Nafallo agrees with tseng :-)
<DerekS> hey, i have a feature idea for dapper
<DerekS> it would be cool if bookmarks for epiphany/firefox/konqueror/etc were all stored in one place, so when one is edited they all are
<Seveas> grmbl, highlighters :p-
<Seveas> ogra, Nafallo: still here?
<Nafallo> yepp :-)
<Yagisan> motu's, Is there a way for me to get gpg to remember my passphrase for a few minutes while I sign all my packages ?
<Nafallo> Yagisan: seahorse-agent == <3 :-)
<zyga> Yagisan: use seahorse
<Seveas> Nafallo, nice, you're on my list :)
<zyga> :-)
<Seveas> gpg-agent > seahorse
* Nafallo blinks, list? :-)
<Yagisan> cool - thanks guys
<Seveas> Nafallo, i'm stting up ubuntu/member hostname cloaks on freenode. Want one?
<Nafallo> Seveas: yay! yes thanks. been waiting for this :-)
<Seveas> k, only 35 more members to ask :)
<Nafallo> hehe, what will it be? motu/ubuntu/nafallo? ;-)
* zyga hopes to become a member tommorow
<Yagisan> motu's is there a tutorial about how to integrate ccache into pbuilder ?
<\sh> Yagisan: 1. gpg-agent
<\sh> Yagisan: 2. not that i know off....but someone played with it..
<Yagisan> \sh: thanks. I'll see if I can set ccache up - if I do I'll have it stuck on the wiki
<\sh> Yagisan: don't use seahorse as gpg-agent replacement
* Nafallo is someone :-)
<Nafallo> I'm not sure it works atm though.
<sivang> Yagisan: what's ccache ?
<\sh> compiler-cache
<\sh> caches already compiled object code which is not changed
<Nafallo> ah, it works, sort of :-P
<sivang> \sh: nice, that can probably speed up things
<Nafallo> cache hit                             78
<Nafallo> cache miss                            63
<Nafallo> ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: u have it running in pbuilder?
<Nafallo> \sh: yes. only in pbuilder actually :-)
* \sh is more interessted in pbuilder + dist cc
<\sh> sivang: but has sometimes many pitfalls
<Nafallo> BINDMOUNTS="/var/cache/ccache"
<Yagisan> \sh: I'm updating my unoffical repo - it is taking a long time manually signing the files
<Nafallo> export CCACHE_DIR="/var/cache/ccache"
<Nafallo> export CCACHE_UMASK="002"
<Nafallo> export PATH="/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH"
<Nafallo> EXTRAPACKAGES="ccache"
<Nafallo> that's for pbuilderrc basically :-)
<Nafallo> you probably have to mkdir /var/cache/ccache :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: that's all in your pbuilders ? that looks simple
<Yagisan> Nafallo: now to add distcc and it's all set
<Nafallo> Yagisan: it is :-). but I don't need distcc, since I "only" got one amd64 ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: don't you build "i386" as well ?
* Yagisan wonders if it is feasible to distcc over the internet
<Nafallo> no, that's why I need your help with setting up a pbuilder for it :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: IIRC just adding -arch i386 to the pbuilder create was enough
<Nafallo> something tells me we should add some PbuilderHowto/[CCache,CrossCompiling] 
<Nafallo> :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: give me a sec, and I'll doublecheck
* Yagisan has many chroots
<Yagisan> Nafallo: Ah, what I did was build separate amd64 and i386 chroots (u510_amd64_pb  u510_i386_pb)
<Nafallo> with just --arch i386 for the second build?
<Nafallo> s/build/create/
<Yagisan> Nafallo: the i386 ones were built with --arch i386 passed to debootstrap
<Nafallo> how to pass that to debootstrap? :-)
<Yagisan> then I just build the pbuilder chroots normally, in my seperate development chroots
<Yagisan> my setup amd64 -> minimal i386 chroot -> pbuilder
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I just went linux32 dchroot u510_i386_pb
<Yagisan> Nafallo: pbuilder create
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> ha!
<Nafallo> --debootstrapopts --arch i386 should work :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: should, but I like to keep my devel chroots separate from each other
<Nafallo> /usr/sbin/debootstrap: line 227: cd: http://localhost:9999: No such file or directory
<Nafallo> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<Nafallo> WTH?
<Yagisan> Nafallo: sudo debootstrap --variant=buildd --arch i386 breezy ui386_chroot http://192.168.1.1:3142/au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<Yagisan> Nafallo: That will build you a small i386 chroot
<Nafallo> I tried to call it through pbuilder :-)
<Nafallo> I probably just make it on my girlfriends i386 shuttle and scp it to my box :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I keep my amd64/i386 in different chroots. I set 1 up, and just cp /etc
<Nafallo> or I could use the test-machine I'll soon have hardware for :-)
<Nafallo> I don't use chroots, I use pbuilders :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: my pbuilders live in different chroots
<Nafallo> indeed. mine lives on my system :-).
<Yagisan> Nafallo: Currently I have Ubuntu hoary i386/amd64 breezy i386/amd64 Debian sarge i386/amd64 Debian etch i386/amd64
<Nafallo> :-)
<Yagisan> and I'm waiting for dapper
<Yagisan> they need their own chroots
<Nafallo> why?
<Yagisan> I can just tar them up, and stick them on dvd when I need to transport them elsewhere
<Yagisan> made it very easy to restore my system :)
<Nafallo> but you can't with your basetgz?
<Yagisan> I could - but I don't want to over complicate my pbuilderrc - I build for a quite a few systems.
<Yagisan> Nafallo: So, is it worth using distcc with a p2 300 and k6/2 300 ?
<Nafallo> dunno :-P
<Nafallo> do they have anything else to do? :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: well the k6 is a firewall, the p2 is a thin client, not exactly demanding jobs
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I wonder if they will actually slow the compile down
<Nafallo> they might indeed do just that :-)
<Nafallo> try? :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: shortly, I need to actually get ccache and distcc setup first
<highvoltage> hi masters of the universe
<\sh> hey highvoltage
<dholbach> hey HiddenWolf
<dholbach> oops
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> hi highvoltage :)
<HiddenWolf> hey dholbach
* HiddenWolf spanks _you_ for tabbing
<dholbach> me?
<Nafallo> kinky ;-)
<\sh> spanking? please join #ubuntu-bdsm
<highvoltage> tabbing?
<Nafallo> \sh: you're not there ;-)
<\sh> ubuntu is humanity ... #ubuntu-love , #ubuntu-bdsm, #ubuntu-roleplaying *eg*
<Nafallo> :-)
* Yagisan doesn't see anyone in #ubuntu-bdsm, damm and I had my whips and chains ready
<\sh> haha...
* \sh hides in #ubuntu-gblf
<eazel7> hi ppl
<lucas> hi
<lucas> dholbach: I remember you Cc MOTURuby on a bug report
<lucas> but I can't find the list of bugs where moturuby is Cced
<dholbach> erm... cced?
<dholbach> not assigned?
<Lathiat> lucas: there is no such list
<Lathiat> lucas: only if assigned
<Lathiat> in which case
<Lathiat> its
<Lathiat> http://launchpad.net/people/moturuby/+assignedbugs
<lucas> those are bugs assigned in malone ? or bugzilla ?
<Lathiat> malone
<Lathiat> bugzilla is not used for universe bugs
<lucas> Lathiat: do you know if there's a secret email address to contact all members of a launchpad team ?
<Lathiat> lucas: dunno
<dholbach> lucas: #launchpad or bug report on product launchpad, if you want to complain
<Lathiat> lucas: what do you want to contact about?
<lucas> I wanted to contact all members of my team, that's all :-)
<Lathiat> could file a bug ;)
<lucas> Lathiat: did that, but in the ubuntu bugzilla
<lucas> anyway, I asked, and the answer is no
<tseng> i already asked about this also
<tseng> they said get a mailing list
<Lathiat> heh
<lucas> but when you ask for a mailing list, I think they say "use ubuntu-devel"
<lucas> so this quite sucks
<Lathiat> lucas: how does it suck
<Lathiat> use it :)
<lucas> but then, first, I have to check that all members of moturuby have subscribed to ubuntu-devel, and are reading it closely enough to see my post
<Lathiat> CC is usefull
<Lathiat> to: ubuntu-devel, cc: all moturuby people
<Lathiat> odds are it'l get enough attention anyway but
<zyga> moturuby
<zyga> hey guys
<zyga> what's up?
<lucas> phone
<lucas> </phone>
<lucas> zyga: I don't know if you read it, but I started adding some ideas on the MOTURuby page
<zyga> lucas: I followed them carefully
<lucas> any comments ?
<zyga> not yet really I've just read that and added thinking about it to my TODO list
<lucas> :-)
<zyga> I'm trying to get l10n-ng into dapper and I desperatly need to trim features to meet the deadline
<lucas> ng ?
<lucas> is that a country code ?
<zyga> lucas: next generation
<lucas> ah, this ng :-)
<zyga> lucas: it's a whole new concept, I want to scrap language packs
<zyga> lucas: I need support from all sides :-)
<zyga> lucas: but right now I need time to finish the specs and get feedback from the top guys
<siretart> hi folks
<dholbach> hey reinhard
<zyga> lucas: is there anyone who reviews REVU ruby sutff?
<lucas> I dunno
<zyga> I've put 2 packages there
<lucas> I'm not an ubuntu member
<lucas> so I can't help with that
<lucas> which packages ?
<zyga> lucas: alexandria and its dependencies
<lucas> did you use the debian package as a basis ?
<zyga> lucas: really cool but doesn't work on our ruby, you neet to upgrade to real 1.8.3 (we've got a fake 1.8.2-9)
<zyga> lucas: for the alexandria - yes
<tseng> what is alexandria
<zyga> I only fetched the new source tarball and upgraded dependencies
<tseng> nm
<zyga> tseng: it's really cool book catalogue
<zyga> lucas: for the libzoom-ruby I did everything from scratch
<zyga> lucas: BTW: I've found out that there is an alexandria community and that they have managed to hack the same things together
<lucas> ok
<zyga> but they never released any source code, only .debs
<zyga> I tried to contact them but in vain
<lucas> from http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/alexandria.html, I see paulvt did some NMUs on alexandria
<lucas> you should really mail him
<zyga> who is paulvt
<lucas> Paul Van Tillburg
<zyga> anyway I'm not sure about my package --- it's my first package really
<lucas> a debian developer, maintainer of lots of ruby pkgs
<zyga> lucas: is he anywhere on irc?
<zyga> I prefer that to email everytime
<lucas> usually Mozillion on #debian-ruby, but you'll have to be lucky
<lucas> he isn't here currently
<lucas> and I haven't seen him lately
<zyga> lucas: right
<zyga> I really need to get up to speed with packaging
<zyga> alexandria is big and complex and I'm still a novice
<zyga> anyway -- it works for me
<zyga> lucas: could you try to build my package?
<lucas> I don't have an ubuntu box accessible right now
<zyga> ok
<siretart> zyga: I put together a small script which does your 'important' list on the wiki
<siretart> zyga: http://revu.tauware.de/~siretart/ruby
<siretart> zyga: I intend to run in in a cronjob once a day to replace that list on the wiki. what do you think?
<siretart> lucas: or did you put that list on the wiki? ;)
<lucas> siretart: I'm just going to mail ubuntu-devel about such scripts
<siretart> lucas: we have tiber to host such scripts, you know
<lucas> yes, but I think some of them should be packaged
<lucas> we don't need to run all of them of tiber
<siretart> depends. This list seemed to me a good candidate
<lucas> this particular one, yes
<siretart> if you have additional ones, just leave me a note
<lucas> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel ?
<siretart> I am, and I read that list
<lucas> btw, you script lacks a shebang, and should be named .bash, not .sh
<lucas> $() doesn't work in sh
<siretart> oh. thanks for pointer
<Mithrandir> lucas: $() is posix sh
<lucas> Mithrandir: you sure ?
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > dash
<Mithrandir> \u@\h:\w$ echo $(echo foo)
<Mithrandir> foo
<Mithrandir> lucas: yes.
<lucas> Mithrandir: seems so
<lucas> siretart: but you still need to add a shebang ;)
<siretart> lucas: already done
<zyga> siretart: good idea, I've already seen that script
<zyga> siretart: I was rather amazed on how quick it showed up :-)
<siretart> I just took the commands from the wiki
<lucas> siretart: you had the good idea to replace grep -e with grep -w I think
<slomo_> \sh_away: s9y convinced me :) i'll migrate when 0.9 is released... should be next week or something ;)
<Amaranth> woo, the only error or warning lintian and linda give for my alacarte package is that dapper isn't a distro
<ivoks> hi
<Amaranth> checking deb, changes, and dsc
<Amaranth> now i just need to wait for a real release (sometime this week)
<jmg> guys is any work being done in dapper for a new init scheme?
<jmg> something to make stuff boot faster?
<dholbach> i suppose you check the wiki at UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs
<dholbach> and that's more of a #ubuntu-devel question
<dholbach> since the stuff won't land in universe :)
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/replacement-init
<ogra> jmg, ^^^
<hub> he dholbach
<dholbach> hey hub
<dholbach> how are you?
<hub> am ok
<hub> plenty of spare time now
<dholbach> oh yeah, i read it
<Amaranth> i hope they decide to use launchd
<dredg> morning
<dholbach> hey dredg
<dholbach> "morning" - haha :)
<hub> dholbach: the positive side is that I will have plenty of time for UBZ :-)
<dredg> well, 13.30
<dredg> but closer to morning than you are :)
<dholbach> ah, california?
* dredg nods
<dholbach> hub: i look forward to it :)
<dredg> there's no way i can make ubz, sadly
<dholbach> :(
<ogra> dredg, come on, be creative ...
<ogra> dredg, fold the room a bit and be at both places at the same time ... :)
<dredg> ogra: i'm here on training. can't skip it
<ogra> s/room/space
<dredg> AND i find that mako will be in dublin this week
<dredg> so not only can i not make ubz, the one time mako visits ireland i'm not in the damn country
<ajmitch> morning
* ajmitch thought he said to lucas that he had some tools written that were in a bzr repository?
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> siretart: most of the stuff I wrote is already on tiber :)
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<siretart> ajmitch: did lucas already see that?
<siretart> ajmitch: btw, I just installed the bzr package from breezy on tiber
<ajmitch> I wrote a mail to the list
<ajmitch> and I told him yesterday in here that I had tools
<siretart> ajmitch: perhaps you could move them to ~ajmitch/public_html?
<ajmitch> once I can login :)
<ajmitch> siretart: I will
<ajmitch> I'm resorting the branch on my local box
<siretart> ah, I nearly thought about a problem with your revu account ;)
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> ssh was taking
<ajmitch> a long
<ajmitch> long time
<ajmitch> I promised in my email that tools would be available during UBZ :)
<ajmitch> since I want to put up some pages on revu for things as well
<siretart> w00t. dapper open!
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> on katie though
* ajmitch saw sabdfl make the call in #launchpad
<ogra> its a first try of elmo
<siretart> ah. okay
<ogra> be patient ;)
<siretart> hehe
* siretart needs to setup a filter
<ajmitch> we need to come up with a list of issues with malone for bradb
<ajmitch> to talk to him at UBZ
<siretart> hi sistpoty!
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<siretart> sistpoty: I just wanted to catch you by email
<sistpoty> huhu siretart... sorry didn't make it to uni today :(
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<siretart> sistpoty: it wasn't that important today for you, michael did a introduction to haskel ;)
<sistpoty> hehe :)
<siretart> sistpoty: the optimizing stuff is next week
<sistpoty> cool... I'll be there, promised ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: do you have some time right now? how about a shared screen session upgrading tiber to breezy?
<sistpoty> siretart: sure
<sistpoty> siretart: how does a shared screen session work?
<siretart> sistpoty: because I'm not that sure about upgrading postgres, you mentioned you did it some time ago, yes?
<ajmitch> ogra: seen that someone created a hwdb lp product?
<siretart> sistpoty: are you familiar with screen?
<siretart> lets take this to query ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: ok
<ogra> ajmitch, nope ... but there are hwdb bugs in malone... i thought that was already there...
<ajmitch> ogra: looks like someone registered a product in order to file a bug on it
<ogra> meh
<ajmitch> which means that you won't get the bug reports..
<ajmitch> more malone confusion :)
<ogra> meh X2
* ajmitch waits for firefox to thrash in
<ajmitch> ****ing win xp
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/products/hwdb-gui
<ajmitch> there we go
<Amaranth> how do you register a product?
<thesaltydog> ogra, ??
<ogra> thesaltydog, looks cool... but dapper isnt open yet ;)
<thesaltydog> :-)
<Nafallo> wow
<ogra> nice work, really
<ajmitch> launchpad.net, products, register a product
<thesaltydog> is it closer to your...mood?
* Nafallo sees XubuntuArtwork
<ogra> yup, a lot
<Nafallo> almost want's to switch ;-)
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> hmm?
* ajmitch is lost
<thesaltydog> it will be on Debian within a week.
<Amaranth> products doesn't exist on launchpad.net
<thesaltydog> I am waiting for translators to update po.
<Amaranth> firefox can't find it and neither can i
<ajmitch> Amaranth: meh
<ogra> ajmitch, thesaltydog sent me a screenie of the new bum version
<ajmitch> Amaranth: https://launchpad.net/products
<dholbach> good night guys
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<thesaltydog> ogra, I have stolen the "lamp bulb" from REVU...
<dholbach> night andrew
<ogra> heh... and they have "stolen" it elsewhere :)
<thesaltydog> ciao daniel, goodnight
<dholbach> bye fabio
<sistpoty> thesaltydog: the lamp bulb should be from gnome-icons iirc
* ajmitch needs to get hacking on his motu tools before more people cry out for my blood
<sistpoty> hehe
<thesaltydog> sistpoty, ok, so it keeps in family
<ajmitch> I'd better get things done before Ubuntu Love Day!
<ogra> ajmitch, or even take over the world with exactly the same tools :)
<ajmitch> so that dholbach can show off things to new MOTUs
<dholbach>  :)
<dholbach> no way andrew, you'll present your own tools ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> but they'll be MOTU tools
<ajmitch> not mine ;)
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> ok, i'm still off to bed
<ajmitch> night :)
<dholbach> :)
<thesaltydog> goodnight all
<thesaltydog> 'night ogra
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> night stefan
<ogra> night thesaltydog
<Nafallo> anyone want to see my routing? ;-)
<Mithrandir> you say that as if it's dirty.
<ajmitch> hm
<Nafallo> well, jenny painted it when I teached her about it :-)
<ajmitch> what a shame a local hosting company says they'll only support debian at the moment on their managed servers
<Nafallo> ask them why they don't support debian-ng? ;-)
<ajmitch> I asked if they were to support Ubuntu, but no..
<ogra> ajmitch, and ?
<ogra> ajmitch, just upgrade to ubuntu then ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: this is support for a managed server, eg security updates, etc
<ajmitch> since I won't be working here for years, I'd like a decent server setup
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/magicalforest.jpg
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: ^ dirty? ;-)
<siretart> tiber status update: upgrade to breezy ongoing
<ajmitch> siretart: yay
* ajmitch should rm -rf his bzr branch on there
<siretart> ajmitch: we will need to reboot tiber after upgrade
<ajmitch> fine by me
<ajmitch> I'll just get logged out
<keyes> hello
<minghua> dapper is open now?
<Nafallo> only to the DC :-)
<ajmitch> be patient!
<siretart> hehe
<minghua> Nafallo: what does DC mean?
<siretart> minghua: elmo is working on it atm
<siretart> I expect it open in a few hours, when nothing goes wrong
<minghua> siretart: I just saw his email to ubuntu-devel list
<minghua> that's why I'm asking
<minghua> I'm not impatient, just trying to confirm :-)
<Nafallo> datacenter :-)
<siretart> ;)
<minghua> Nafallo: I see, thanks
<bipolar> is anyone working on new mono packages?
<ajmitch> yes
<bipolar> woot
<ajmitch> considering that the ones we have really aren't that old :P
<ajmitch> so 'new' ones won't be much of a change
<bipolar> hmmm....
<bipolar> yeah. they're only one point off
<ajmitch> we had to freeze breezy at some point :)
<bipolar> heh
<minghua> ajmitch: does that imply breezy universe is not frozen yet?
<bipolar> monodevelop went up a point too. thats a bigger change I think.
<Nafallo> no, but soon we will have dapper universe to work on :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: no, it's quite frozen
<ajmitch> only critical things slip into breezy-updates
<Nafallo> breezy-updates/universe != breezy/universe ;-)
<minghua> okay, I suppose a plan for dapper and breezy-backports is more practical
<ogra> yup
<minghua> I need to get SCIM packages in shape
<ogra> but hard for mono... you have to build all packages and they must be in the right order... its quite some work
<minghua> maybe write a IncludeInMain proposal as well
<ajmitch> ogra: but lots of fun
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> ogra: it's called throwing everything at the buildd until it's right :)
<minghua> oh one man can dream
<siretart> ajmitch: we want to reboot tiber now. are you still doing something there?
<ajmitch> siretart: nope
<ogra> mono itself is in main
<siretart> okay, reboot in 2 minutes
<ajmitch> and some apps will probably migrate to main for dapper
<siretart> lets hope for the best!
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so elmo sent out mail saying dapper is open
<ogra> yeah 1
<ajmitch> I see someone replied to my email saying that I had stuff done, saying we should just start somethng new
* ajmitch gives up :P
<ogra> *SIGH*
* ajmitch sets up his procmail rules for the dapper flood
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> ajmitch: coward ;-). see it as a test for your server :-)
<Kyral> Dapper open? The Devel list makes it sound that way
<Nafallo> dapper-changes aswell ;-)
<Kyral> Yah I gotta go subscribe to that list
<Kyral> Lets ROCK AND ROLL!
<Seveas> Kyral, or to the RSS feed ;0
<Kyral> Hoi Seveas :P
<Seveas> hi
<Kyral> I already get so much mail to my box, I won't mind another couple hundred a day ;P
<Nafallo> hehe
<Seveas> then subscribe to ubuntu-bugs@
<Kyral> Thats what filters are for
<Nafallo> Seveas: how to activite the new cloak? :-)
<Kyral> I send stuff from Kernel-Devel, Universe-Bugs, and Ubuntu-Devel to thier own folders
<Nafallo> I send stuff from every mailing-list to it's own folder :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, it will be activated in a few days
<Kyral> Yah thats what I do
<Kyral> Its been boring without breakage
<Kyral> Lets the games begin!
<Nafallo> ah, that's why I can't see it :-P
<Nafallo> thanx :-)
<Seveas> still 31 people to ask :)
<Kyral> ubuntu-bugs
<Kyral> How is that different from Universe-Bugs?
<Kyral> oh wait
<Seveas> universe-bugs is malone, ubuntu-bugs is bugzilla...
<Kyral> I don't really use the Bugzilla...
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-30
<Kyral> Note to self....compress mail archives....
<ajmitch> Kyral: what, don't you want 5GB of mail?
<Nafallo> note to self: get more harddrives for the server
<Kyral> Actually my /home is on a 260 GB partition....
<ajmitch>  du -sch ~/Mail
<ajmitch> 5.1G    /home/ajmitch/Mail
<ajmitch> 5.1G    total
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> way too much email there
<Kyral> lol
<whiprush> man
* Kyral hands ajmitch the gzip command
<whiprush> that's just too much
<siretart> tiber/revu is now operational with breezy! :)
<Kyral> eh?
<siretart> ajmitch: you may reconnect now ;)
<Kyral> Yah I feel like an idiot
<Kyral> Yanno that gtkorphan package? I forgot to check with the original author to see if he planned to submit it to REVU >_<
<ajmitch> Kyral: there are a few bz2 mail folders in there
<ajmitch> Kyral: don't worry, he visits here as well
<Kyral> Yah but now I feel like an idiot ;P
<Kyral> Oh well no harm no foul
<Kyral> So who has already dist-upgraded to Dapper? ;P
<siretart> hrhr
<Kyral> hrhr?
<Nafallo> Kyral: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
<Nafallo> Kyral: can you see it yet? ;-)
<Kyral> Oh ooops ;P
<Kyral> Sorry, overeager I guess :D
<ajmitch> there's not much to dist-upgrade to yet
<Kyral> good point
<Kyral> whats the first thing to do anyway....
<ajmitch> proxy server at work is going out of its way to annoy me today
<siretart> okay, work for today done. gn8 folks!
<Kyral> cya
<ajmitch> bye siretart
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 folks
<Kyral> Judging by the amount of X Libs being uploaded, I'm thinking X is gonna break again....
<ajmitch> nah
<Nafallo> hehe
<Kyral> Are we going to XOrg 7 with this one?
<ajmitch> probably
<Kyral> Niiiiice
<ajmitch> once all the bits are in place
<ajmitch> we already have something similar
<Kyral> Yah 6.8 right?
<ajmitch> 7.0 is just 6.9 with a modular build tree
<ajmitch> and we have 6.8+cvs with modular build
<Kyral> Yah, I'm looking forward not to have to download a dozen drivers that I don't use
<ajmitch> daniels is upstream for a fair bit of the build stuff :)
<ajmitch> you don't have to  now
<Kyral> Yah....what would happen if I remove one of the driver packs?
<ajmitch> it should still work
<ajmitch> it was split for a reason
<Kyral> (Seeing as I compile the NVidia Module from NVidia due to my custom kernel)\
<Kyral> I still have to get that thing to load on boot....
<Nafallo> ogra: your buildlog thing eats dapper now, right? :-)
<ajmitch> yay, managed to trim my mutt headers a bit
<ogra> Nafallo, what ever lamonts daily.html spits out
<ajmitch> now it looks a bit cleaner
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> gnargh
<ajmitch> need food
<ajmitch> oh good
<ajmitch> DebianPatchFeeding
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> much needed spec :P
<ajmitch> looks like the page is on the BOF list
<ajmitch> but dilinger hasn't finished writing the page
* ajmitch needs to do some uploads..
<crimsun> I'm working on lincvs
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> why? as if daniels is finished with the buildds yet? ;-)
<ajmitch> we need to get our fix
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o bhuvan]  by ChanServ
<schweeb> hooray for dapper
<schweeb> any motu work to be done yet?
<crimsun> schweeb: I've started troughing through the rest of unmetdeps
<crimsun> (preferring syncs at this point)
<schweeb> I've got a bit more time to help this time around
<schweeb> I need to figureo out whether mako actually marked me as a member or not :P
<schweeb> *figure
<Mirno> Hi
<Mirno> siretart: ping
<tseng> schweeb is a member at large
<LaserJock> so, is dapper open? I got a bunch of emails from dapper-changes
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yes :-)
<Nafallo> but I can't see it at archive.ubuntu.com :-/
<LaserJock> did they just transfer subscriptions from breezy-changes ? I don't remember signing up for dapper-changes
<Nafallo> yes :-)
<LaserJock> who is Daniel Stone?
<Nafallo> daniels?
<LaserJock> oh, doh
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> is it just me or do we have an FTBFS'r'us in dapper? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: that's the plan
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> so, where to start? :-P
<ajmitch> just dive in
<ajmitch> hopefully autosyncs start flooding soon
<ajmitch> so far I've only seen manual uploads
<Nafallo> ehm, that's what FTBFS, no?
<ajmitch> hm?
<Nafallo> just can't see them announced?
<ajmitch> I don't see many FTBFS of recent uploads
<ajmitch> I see a lot of FTBFS of stuff currently in the archive that's still broken
<Nafallo> what's all the stuff like motor and xprint then?
<ajmitch>     motor |  2:3.4.0-3 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/universe Packages
<ajmitch>      motor |  2:3.4.0-3 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/universe Sources
<ajmitch> *cough*
<ajmitch> that's not an autosync
<ajmitch> that's just the buildds having everything given back
<Nafallo> hmm, oki :-P
<Nafallo> why? to get breezy built for dapper?
<ajmitch> because it's a reasonably automated process once the buildds are turned back on?
<Nafallo> hmm, that probably means that I should stop looking :-)
<sivang> good night all
<sivang> alreayd past my timezone :)
<Nafallo> gnight sivang :-)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> bddebian: why haven't you started uploading yet?!?
<tseng> haha
<tseng> yes
* Kyral falls
<tseng> fix universe harder
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because I suck? :-)
<Kyral> Compiling VLC from Sid is harder than I thought
<Fuji-san> hello
<Fuji-san> am i welcome here
<Fuji-san> no dutch people i hope :/
<bddebian> Everyone is welcome here.. Except trolls of course :-)
<Kyral> yah
<Fuji-san> haha
<bddebian> And maybe us Americans ;-P
<Kyral> Go go Dapper!
<Fuji-san> i make alot of bad jokes but i'm not a troll
<Kyral> I hope my homebrew VLC backport works....
<Fuji-san> :-)
<Fuji-san> i loive ubuntu :)
<Kyral> appending the ~ string to a version will allow any other official Ubuntu package to overwrite it?
<Fuji-san> oh shit JanC and Seveas are here :/
<Fuji-san> the dutch are everywhere .. ':((
* Kyral looks at bddebian
<Seveas> Fuji-san, stop making a fool of yourself in every ubuntu channel please
<Kyral> You have any clue oh Most High MOTU?
* ajmitch points bddebian to Kyral's question
<bddebian> Kyral: ?
<Fuji-san> ok Sepheebear
<Fuji-san> ok Seveas***
<tseng> if you dont bump the version
<Kyral> bddebian, I meant why Fuji-san is afraid of the dutch
<bddebian> Kyral: I've never seen ~ in a version
<bddebian> Kyral: Oh :-)
<tseng> the same numbered version will overwrite it from the archive
<Kyral> The Backports use it
<tseng> vs a local dpkg install
<Fuji-san> because i'm half chinese and china is taking alot of their jobs :)
<Kyral> that way it doesn't screw up
<Kyral> ie, <version>~ubp1
<tseng> im not sure what macro-economics has to do with motu
<Fuji-san> nothing tseng
<tseng> its not railroad-era california
<Fuji-san> you also chinese tseng?
<tseng> no.
<Fuji-san> ok
<ajmitch> Fuji-san: it's rather irrelevant here
<Fuji-san> i know
<Fuji-san> i stopped
<Fuji-san> dont worry
<Kyral> So
<Kyral> How long until the current REVU queue is empty of VALID packages (I know two of mine aren't ;) )
<ajmitch> Kyral: how long is a piece of string?
<Kyral> how long did you cut it ;P
<ajmitch> remember that it's MOTU time that's needed
<tseng> thats a good question
<Kyral> and I was just trying to change the topic of convo with that question ;P
<Fuji-san> i'm a kiwi btw
<Fuji-san> ;)
<Kyral> You're a fruit?
<ajmitch> no, he's being silly
<bddebian> hehe
<Kyral> Aw screw VLC for now
<Kyral> I'll wait until the source packages for Dapper are done being uploaded
<Kyral> Xine and Totem can take up the slack
<ajmitch> bddebian: merge bugs will start to get filed when autosyncs start
<ajmitch> bddebian: so please, be patient
<Kyral> whats an autosync?
<ajmitch> Kyral: an automatic sync from debian
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so from Sid to Dapper in this case?
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes
<Fuji-san> ajmitch :-))
<tseng> i am enjoying introdeveloperdocs
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm outta commish for a week or two anyway probably :-(
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> I'm just blindly doing whatever :D
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'll be away for ~3 weeks
<Nafallo> bddebian AND ajmitch gone? :-P
<Kyral> so nothing really to do until the autosyncs?
<bddebian> Nafallo: Yeah so you folks should actually be able to get something done.. ;-P
<Nafallo> bddebian: ;-)
* schweeb mumbles somthing about crashed hard drives
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I'll be gone at UBZ
<schweeb> stupid server HD crashed :(
<Kyral> I;ll be there on Sunday D:
<Nafallo> ajmitch: wouldn't you be gone after that aswell
<Nafallo> ?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, I
<ajmitch> I'm gone until the 17th
<Nafallo> hopefully I can be active merging.
<Kyral> Don't worry I'll be here! *Waits for laughter*
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yeah, I wish I could say the same
<ajmitch> I'll be onlin until the 9th or 10th
<ajmitch> so I can be uploading from UBZ
<Nafallo> seems I'll be getting a practical place somewhere so I have no idea about computertime in the near future.
<schweeb> ajmitch: I blame my HD crash on you
<schweeb> ajmitch: or maybe tseng
<ajmitch> schweeb: feel free
<ajmitch> schweeb: I care about >< that much
<ajmitch> ;)
<Fuji-san> ;)
<Fuji-san> i like you ajmitch
<Fuji-san> :)
<schweeb> no one likes ajmitch
<tseng> schweeb: blar
<tseng> schweeb: you are a member at large
<ajmitch> schweeb: you're right
<tseng> you arent even allowed in here
<schweeb> tseng: I'm back
<schweeb> I had a lot of work to do
<tseng> i heard that before
<tseng> busy moving tapes?
<bddebian> heh
<schweeb> I don't even have tapes anymore, bitch
<schweeb> I have CDLs
<tseng> arent you fancy
<schweeb> they cost more than you're worth :p
<tseng> i have something here for you
<whiprush> m|m?
<tseng> yep
<schweeb> hrm?
<ajmitch> heh
<whiprush> has anyone seen mez lately?
<bddebian> Not recently
<ajmitch> nope
<whiprush> hmmm
<schweeb> whiprush: I pretty much lost all my server's data :(
<ajmitch> we'll see him in a few days at UBZ
<whiprush> he's going to ubz right/
<ajmitch> yes, he will be there
<whiprush> schweeb: yeah i heard. sucks dude.
<tseng> i cant find the damn picture
<tseng> in ubuntu tags
<ajmitch> tseng: a shame
<schweeb> oh
<whiprush> it's under udu tseng
<schweeb> the ajmitch is a dirty slut picture
<ajmitch> schweeb: yes, that picture
<whiprush> the tag, is udu
<ajmitch> hah
<Fuji-san> AJMITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<schweeb> I would use a word other than slut, but it's probably more against the CoC than slut
<Fuji-san> FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Fuji-san> :P
<tseng> oh first one too
<tseng> schweeb: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477862/ HAVE SOME OF THAT
<ajmitch> Fuji-san: please, stop being annoying
<ajmitch> one channel is bad enough, let alone two
<tseng> took me long enough
<tseng> damn dude
<schweeb> tseng: yes, you're becoming more useless in your old age
<zakame> hello all :D
<ajmitch> hi zaj
<ajmitch> oops
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
<ajmitch> hi zakame
* wonthappenagain was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by tseng (knock it off)
<ajmitch> thanks tseng
<tseng> oh
<tseng> autojoin
<ajmitch> easy enough to deal with
<wonthappenagain> :(((
<zakame> hehe, I thought today was the CC meeting :))
<ajmitch> not that I heard
<ajmitch> but I've been out of touch with meetings
<wonthappenagain> pitty me i'm a moron who just wants to make friends :((
<tseng> fix your nick and quit screwing around, please.
<wonthappenagain> ok
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<tseng> http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477834/in/photostream/
<tseng> i forget who was boning luis?
<tseng> oh, him
* zakame gets confused of TZs :( PHT is ahead of UTC )
<crimsun> oh dear, not in -devel
<schweeb> jesus
<zakame> hmmm, dapper's now accessible via apt...
<ajmitch> great
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b Fuji-san!*@*]  by tseng
<tseng> oh screw your irssi
<schweeb> s/your/you
<whiprush> try /kickban?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*i=Smith@*.upc-d.chello.nl]  by tseng
* Fuji-san was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by tseng (tseng)
<tseng> yes
<whiprush> (bob2 rocks, not a shred of mercy in that man)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@*.upc-d.chello.nl]  by tseng
<tseng> hows that
<seth_k> ouch
<ajmitch> whiprush: #ubuntu beat out all his mercy
<bddebian> Better :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b Fuji-san!*@*]  by tseng
<schweeb> ajmitch: as it would anyone
<zakame> is he g4g?
<Nafallo> ehm, isn't that last ban the whole isp? :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: oh well
<ajmitch> I'm glad I'm not on that ISP then
<Nafallo> indeed
<Mirno> *!*@*.upc-d.chello.nl <- OMG .. yeah the whole isp ...
<zakame> haha
<tseng> i wasnt feeling very generous
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b *!*@*.upc-d.chello.nl]  by tseng
<tseng> thats sort of easy to get around
<tseng> oh well.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+oo Nafallo ajmitch]  by tseng
<tseng> for the ones that never sleep..
<tseng> who is bhuvan btw
<bhuvan> :)
<bhuvan> its me, Bhuvaneswaran
* tseng waves
<bhuvan> ?
<tseng> i dont recall meeting you, so hi
<bhuvan> yeah, we didn't!
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+t]  by tseng
<tseng> what else is horked
<crimsun> crap, now he's in kubuntu
<tseng> sigh
<ajmitch> crimsun: sounds like he's asking for a k-line
<schweeb> what an utter douchebag
<Seveas> he's been banned from #ubuntu and #ubuntu-nl too
<ajmitch> and all our work stops because of some irc trolls
<ajmitch> fun
<bddebian> Bunch of meanies ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, we are
<zakame> haha
<zakame> and the one to bake our noodle's if he's in the wiki too :))
<ajmitch> zakame: don't suggest such things
<zakame> ajmitch: sorry :((
<ajmitch> now I guess I need to make my scripts more generic to handle both dapper & breezy
<schweeb> what scripts?
<ajmitch> evil motu stuff
<bddebian> heh
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> pong
<ajmitch> Yagisan: what's up?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: you attending the #ubuntu-hardened meeting ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> you won't be, I take it?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I won't be able to make it :(
<ajmitch> not at that hour
<ajmitch> what issues do you want raised?
<ajmitch> it's mainly talking about stuff to take to UBZ
<Yagisan> ajmitch: actually - I just wanted to see if you could get me a copy of the logs
<ajmitch> oh that's not a problem
<ajmitch> fairly trivial
<Yagisan> ajmitch: thanks - I'm having some freenode issues - takes a while to get on
<bmonty> hey all
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> looks like I can start giving you guys debdiffs again :)
<bddebian> :-)
<Nafallo> is mom started aswell? :-)
<bmonty> Nafallo: hold on, let me wake her up and ask her :P
<bddebian> heh
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> anyone else getting mail? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: mail for..?
<Nafallo> from katie :-)
* ajmitch is hardly getting any mail
<Nafallo> 20/min or so ;-)
<ajmitch> I guess there's a bit of a lag between being subscribed & mail coming through
<bmonty> Nafallo: I had 88 messages for dapper-changes
<ajmitch> bmonty: ubuntu-changes-auto
<Nafallo> 649 and counting :-)
* ajmitch is wgetting the mbox
<Yagisan> does sharing a ccache between amd64 and i386 cause any issues ?
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I worked out how to get distcc into the pbuilder as well
<ajmitch> Yagisan: it might
<ajmitch> Yagisan: but the object files will be completely different
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ok - I'll keep them separate then
<Nafallo> nice :-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: I'll send you the pbuilderrc after I finish a few more tests so you can see how I did it
<bmonty> Yagisan: doesn't distcc pick the appropriate crosscompiler as required?
<Yagisan> Nafallo: then maybe someone more proficient with the wiki can update the pbuilder howto
<bmonty> Yagisan: I
<Nafallo> Yagisan: sure :-)
<bmonty> er...I'd like to see you pbuilderrc also please
<ajmitch> bbiab
<Nafallo> lol
<Yagisan> bmonty: sure, I'll send it to you too. I don't think distcc picks cross compliers though (I only have 1 amd64, and a few slow i386 to test with)
<Nafallo> 666 new mails in ubuntu-auto-changes :-P
<bmonty> Yagisan: thanks
<bmonty> I only have i386s so I have never had occasion to test, but I thought I remebered reading about crosscompilers in the docs
<Nafallo> ajmitch: will mom file the bugs at malone now?
<bmonty> goodnight all!
<Nafallo> bmonty: gnight :-)
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<Yagisan> Good night bmonty
<Nafallo> Seveas: those cloaks, are they for members or just motu?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: why ask me? I'm just a lowly MOTU :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: cause you know everything? :-)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> nah, that's bddebian
<Nafallo> hihi
<bddebian> Nah, I don't know shit :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: rubbish, you know all
<Yagisan> isn't there a bbdebian is a god page on the wiki ?
<ajmitch> yep
<Yagisan> see, what more proof is needed :)
<ajmitch> exactly
<bddebian> Bah \sh is just on crack :-)
<ajmitch> well yeah
<ajmitch> but you're still the one & only bddebian
<bddebian> Heh.  I REALLY do want to change my nick.  I'm thinking maybe bddumbass? ;-P
<ajmitch> bdubuntu
<crimsun> well, now that you've done the "aka bddebian" in your -devel posts, you're stuck
<ajmitch> maybe bdsm would be more appropriate for you ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: :)
<Yagisan> :( distcc is distributing jobs
<Yagisan> s/is/isn't
<Nafallo> *sigh* libg :-P
<ajmitch> haha
<LaserJock> has anybody been to MOTUTodo lately?
<bddebian> Nope :'-(
<ajmitch> LaserJock: can't say I have
* ajmitch watches spamassassin send the load average up
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tritium]  by ChanServ
<tritium> yikes
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tritium]  by tritium
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hey bddebian
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi tritium
<tritium> hi ajmitch
<tritium> What are you guys doing up so late?
<ajmitch> late?
<ajmitch> it's 6pm!
<tritium> heh
<tritium> 11 pm here
<Nafallo> 7am :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you're just nuts
<tritium> wow, Nafallo
<dredg> 10pm. feels like 1am
<bddebian> 1am here.. Working :-(
<Nafallo> shhh. I'm watching syslog recieve mail ;-). it's great fun :-).
<ajmitch> Nafallo: you enjoy watching the changes roll in?
<tritium> bddebian: your employer is cruel
<bddebian> Heh
<dredg> bddebian: eugh
<LaserJock> tritium: you're in Mountain time?
<Nafallo> from time to time I get to update to :-)
<tritium> LaserJock: yes, I am.
<dredg> that siad, i'm logged into work over vpn
<tritium> LaserJock: you're in Nevada, aren't you?
<LaserJock> tritium: yes
<LaserJock> I'm Pacific
<LaserJock> would've thought you would have been too
<tritium> I recall talking with you previously
<tritium> No, I'm in Albuquerque
<tritium> Too far from the coast, in the middle of the desert/mountains
<dredg> and aw crap, everything's closed at 10m round here
<dredg> pm*
<dredg> screw getting food
* tritium just read the latest MOTU meeting irclog
<Yagisan> dredg: over here everything shuts by 6pm :( :'(
<dredg> Yagisan: wow that sucks
<dredg> Yagisan: i found out here that even fast food places close before the pub does
<dredg> it's...odd
<ajmitch> tritium: yeah yeah, I'm a slacker
<tritium> ajmitch: no, I wasn't trying to imply that
<bddebian> tritium: Yeah, he is a slacker ;-P
<tritium> I do agree with LaserJock's points
<ajmitch> see, even bddebian agrees with me
* bddebian hugs ahm
<bddebian> Err ajmitch even
<ajmitch> :P
<tritium> nah, ajmitch rocks
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I suck
<Yagisan> dredg: it truly does. after 6, the only place to get food is the vending machine at the train station
<tritium> darnit, now I'm getting hungry
* tritium dreads going to work every day...
<dredg> tritium: why's that?
<tritium> Oh, it just sucks.  Long story.
* dredg ponders an #ubuntu-offtopic channel
<dredg> how useful would one of those be?
<tritium> there is one ;)
<dredg> is there?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it's called #ubuntu-mono
<ajmitch> we're rarely on-topic here
<Nafallo> there is two :-) (counting this one)
<tritium> yeah, but I don't enjoy it at all
<Yagisan> can I pass makeflags to .debs ? it seems that distcc IS working, but 1 job at a time to local host.
<Nafallo> then three :-)
<LaserJock> I thought that this channel was for off-topic ;-)
<Yagisan> I think a blanket -j4 would get a nice test going
<dredg> tritium: (http://www.google.com/jobs/index.html)
* dredg stops whoring ;)
<tritium> yeah, no kidding
<tritium> Part of the long story is that I owe 3 years of my life to my current employer
* ajmitch would rather work for canonical :)
<dredg> :)
* Yagisan is happy being the boss
<dredg> fwiw, i can shove a cv or resume over the queuing process straight to a recruiter. but really, </whoring>
<Yagisan> dredg: In my experience, recruiters aren't there to get you a job, they are there to keep they vacancy open as long as they can
<tritium> dredg: :)
<Yagisan> so they can charge more money for "filling" it
<tritium> dredg: you work at google?
<dredg> Yagisan: right. in this case the recruiter works for google and their job is to hire more staff
<dredg> tritium: yes
* tritium has a cousin that works at google
<tritium> dredg: I'm not a computer type, anyway
<Yagisan> is MAKEOPTS a gentoo only flag ?
<dredg> tritium: no way. know what dept?
<tritium> dredg: all I know is that he worked on the google toolbar for mozilla
<dredg> ah, software eng. most likely i've never come in contact with him
<tritium> What do you do?
<dredg> sysop
<tritium> cool
<dredg> it's ok. i'm over here on training and my internal clock has had a meltdown
* Yagisan sighs
* Nafallo yawns
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> changes-auto stopped at libx?
<ajmitch> looks like it
<ajmitch> last one I have is  libxml-xerces-perl
<Nafallo> that means everything after libx is ubuntuX? ;-)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> no, it means that the syncs are done in batches
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> I almost had a laugh :-P
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<Nafallo> hehe 7:35 :-P
<tritium> good night, bddebian
<tritium> I should get some sleep too
<tritium> good night, gang
<dredg> night
<ivoks> hello
<ivoks> crimsun: ping
<ivoks> ajmitch: ping :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> ajmitch: could we push libcvs to breezy-updates?
<ivoks> it can't be installed in breezy
<ivoks> and needs only rebuild
<ajmitch> you have to ask mdz
<ajmitch> he needs to manually approve each -updates debdiff
<ivoks> ok
* dredg beds
<dredg> damn brain thinks it's 7am tomorrow morning
<pef> hello
<frans-th> hi all
<frans-th> i want to participate with ubuntu branding derivative project for drake
<frans-th> can help
<frans-th> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrandingForDerivatives
<ajmitch> best to ask in #ubuntu-devel then
<ajmitch> we just handle universe
* ajmitch is not really sure what you're asking, either
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> morning
<dholbach> hey zakame :)
<hub> night all
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> sleep tight, hub
<hub> dholbach: when do you arrive in Montreal?
<zakame> afternoon here :)
<dholbach> hub: ermmmmm, 29. 12:00 am or something
<hub> dholbach: ah ok. so ne pre-conf :-)
<hub> s/ne/no/
<hub> c-ya later all
<dholbach> byebye hub :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: ah, I'll be there at about 7am that morning :)
<\sh> ok..something changed in upload handling?
<sivang> morning all
<ajmitch> \sh: no?
<ajmitch> \sh: we're still on boring old katie
<crimsun> slomo: ping. Are we still moving forward with the ffmpeg migration to marillat's, or shall we ask for xvidcore (source) and libpostproc-dev (binary from ffmpeg) to be promoted to universe?
<Lathiat> hrm weird ive got this usb card reader but when i wrote stuff to it, its there unthen disappears
<Lathiat> weird
<syouth> hi
<syouth> are motu's like package maintainers and if i want to contribute some package to ubuntu main tree, i must be one?
<dholbach> syouth: MOTUs take care of Universe
<dholbach> "masters of the universe"
<syouth> ok
<dholbach> but they are the entry point for ubuntu development
<syouth> I describe what I would like to do. I had some cool fortune-mods under Gentoo, that were installed with portage. I would like to contribute those missing fortunes to Ubuntu too. What are my choices here?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseNewPackagesPolicy are interesting reads for that
<_Tonio_> hi everyone
<syouth> Ok, thanks. That's what I needed.
<siretart> hi folks
<_Tonio_> does anyone has a good knowledge of scons ?
<dholbach> hi _Tonio_, siretart
<siretart> huhu dholbach!
<_Tonio_> I'm trying to package codeine, but when the log file seems nice, the deb is empty of any lib or binary...
<_Tonio_> hi dholbach
<syouth> dholbach: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseNewPackagesPolicy does not exist.
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> MOTUNewPackagesPolicy maybe
<syouth> yeah
<siretart> crimsun: that is a very good question. I think slomo has done some research/overview about ffmpeg and xvidcore
<_Tonio_> hi siretart
<siretart> crimsun: I'd really like to hear his opinion on this
<siretart> hi _Tonio_!
<siretart> hi SloMoSnail!
<_Tonio_> hi SloMoSnail
<SloMoSnail> hi siretart and _Tonio_ and the rest ;)
<crimsun> janimo: I uploaded a newer exo snapshot from Benny's repo yesterday that works with Thunar. Shall we have Thunar in Dapper?
<ajmitch> might as well upload it
<ajmitch> give people a choice :)
* zyga is back from work :-)
<janimo> crimsun, I think so
* ajmitch watches zyga announce his return in every channel :P
<janimo> probably 4.4 will be ready by dapper
<janimo> oh so dapper is opened already?
<ajmitch> janimo: by UVF?
<ajmitch> yes
* zyga needs to cut the number of channels a bit :/
<ajmitch> we've got about 1500 packages uploaded already
<janimo> ajmitch, hopefully xfce stuff will get same treatement as kde and gnome
<ajmitch> about 1200 of that is autosyncs
<janimo> so beyond UVF
<ajmitch> janimo: good luck getting an exception
<janimo> ajmitch :)
<janimo> well we synced xfce stuff after UVF in breezy too since it is universe
<ajmitch> yes
<janimo> so I think it will be ok\
<ajmitch> you got exceptions for all that, right?
<ajmitch> because for universe we had a UVF policy
<ajmitch> and we'll be stricter on it for dapper
<janimo> it was universe stuff so were not quite exceptions
<janimo> asked elmo and he synced
<ajmitch> we still had the policy
<janimo> I know dapper will be stricter
<ajmitch> seems that most of the MOTUs chose to ignore it though
<janimo> We'll see what we can do
<ajmitch> probably with good reason
<janimo> have a nice day all, I gotta go now
<pef> what sould I provide when syncing a package from debian ? using REVU as for new packages ?
<crimsun> autosync has been running for some time, pef
<dholbach> a sync? or a merge?
<\sh> siretart: can we use trac for tracking syncs for the moment?
<\sh> siretart: or merges?
<dholbach> don't we have bugzilla for merges?
<dholbach> once mom is active?
<ajmitch> we hope so
<pef> dholbach: sync I think, Debian 's version of kcheckgmail is newer than dapper's version
<dholbach> then we don't need to track merges at two places
<\sh> dholbach: well...if you see that a merge is not necessary, and you can elmo sync a debian package...
<dholbach> then you can state that in the bug report :)
<\sh> pef: kcheckgmail is an ubuntu package?
<ajmitch> dholbach: having 2+ places to track merges is less than efficient :)
<dholbach> and mark it pendingupload or something
<pef> \sh: yes
<dholbach> pef: it's a version, we changed? then we need to merge the changes to it
<\sh> pef: and the ubuntu changes are not vital for kcheckgmail?
<dholbach> pef: or at least check, if we can just get debian's package, which would be cool
<pef> dholbach: latest debian's package include last upstream version and is functionnal
<dholbach> does it have all our "impreovements"? :)
<pef> dholbach: like updated desktop file and things like this ?
<dholbach> yeah, everything
<pef> dholbach: I done this for breezy, but since breezy is closed everything not critical isn't accepted in to breezy-updates. I can do all modifications to debian's version
<dholbach> yeah, then we get it in for dapper
<dholbach> dapper is open
<pef> dholbach: so I should provide a debdiff against latest debian's version ?
<dholbach> or upload your version to revu, yes
<pef> dholbach: someone here told me to get as close as possible to debian's version, so a debdif is better than a new upload
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> if we want to upload something to the archive, we can't upload a debdiff, that's why i said it :)
<_Tonio_> dholbach: can we still upload to revu ?
* crimsun dances. Fixed vlc.
<dholbach> of course
<dholbach> crimsun: YAY
<dholbach> :)
<Kyral> crimsun you rock
<ajmitch> crimsun: good work
<pef> dholbach: and who can I contact to get a fixed version uploaded into breezy-updates ? without the fix the programm is unusable
<crimsun> sigh, now to wait til everything's available in Dapper :-)
* ajmitch wouldn't mind a *working* dapper pbuilder
<ajmitch> instead of 404 errors all over
<Kyral> except VLC is still busted here
<ajmitch> Kyral: be patient!
<tseng> yes
<tseng> he beamed the fix directly to your pc
<Kyral> oh didn't get uploaded
<tseng> over the mind-web
<crimsun> I can't upload vlc till all all the b-ds are available
<Kyral> Dude I just woke up gimme some slack ;P
<ajmitch> the buildd has > 2000 packages to build :P
<crimsun> exactly
<Kyral> No caffine in the system yet ;P
<tseng> < 7am, caffeine, 0
<tseng> yes.
<\sh> Betreff: 	sip4-qt3_4.3-1ubuntu1_source.changes ACCEPTED
<\sh> Datum: 	Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:55:05 +0100 (BST)  (12:55 CEST)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-oo Nafallo_away tseng]  by tseng
<\sh> my first MAIN upload for dapper *yay*
<ajmitch> \sh: yay breakage
<ajmitch> \sh: yay breakage
<tseng> btw i dont see any autosync action
<syouth> Is this HOW-TO correct if I replace hoary with breezy ?
<ajmitch> lucky you
<syouth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ajmitch> tseng: ubuntu-changes-auto
<tseng> that people keep talking about
<tseng> ajmitch: sigh..
<Kyral> 8 AM Class, means I need to get up at 6:45 to get breakfast
* ajmitch would like to do main uploads too
<dholbach> pef: get the version up on REVU (the complete one) and nag people to upload it
<pef> dholbach: already wrote a debdiff https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/kcheckgmail/+bug/2018
<dholbach> pef: super
<pef> dholbach: but I think motu are very busy with dapper :] 
<dholbach> pef: we'll manage
<dholbach> :)
<pef> erf :)
<pef> dholbach: for next TB meeting, to apply as a MOTU, I just have to add myself here https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members ?
<Lathiat> i think for 'motu' too
<Lathiat> pef: you also need to turn up
<pef> Lathiat: sorry ?
<crimsun> (show up at the TB meeting)
<StrikeForce> Is the universe candidates uptodate
<StrikeForce> or have people already done the packages and haven't updated the wiki page?
<dholbach> StrikeForce: people should have updated it
<StrikeForce> yup
<dholbach> (sometimes they might not have been aware of it)
<StrikeForce> kk
<syouth> I need to get my key signed if I want to register as an uploader ( according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU ). Who must sign my key? Someone inside Ubuntu team?
<StrikeForce> I'm still waiting for someone to REVU rufus :(
<dholbach> syouth: somebody in the closely connected set
<syouth> Get Your Key Signed:  Locate someone that lives near you and can meet with you to verify your id. I've used [WWW]  http://www.biglumber.com/
<siretart> syouth: we don't require signed keys for revu
<syouth> siretart: Oh. Ok then.
<pef> crimsun: oh, of course :)
<siretart> syouth: but you should try to get your key signed anyway. You'll need that for membership anyway
<syouth> Ok.
<syouth> Does someone inside Debian team with signed GPG key counts?
<dholbach> sure
<siretart> of course!
<syouth> I think he's not developer or something, but a long time user and such
<syouth> As I understand I need someone with signed key to sign me to get accepted to the web of signed keys. Is it something like that?
<dholbach> yes
<pef> Lathiat: cannot apply to MOTU team:  MOTU is a restricted team. Only a team administrator can add new members. but I can apply to ubuntu-dev membership
<Lathiat> yeh someone will add you to motu i think
<syouth> So I have to find someone in my local area, who has that signed key.
<syouth> It's a bit confusing
<syouth> :)
<ajmitch> pef: motu team is just for bug assignment, really
<pef> ohh ok
<ajmitch> ubuntu-dev will be for uploading
<pef> ajmitch: to be a motu you must be a ubuntu-dev member, right ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ogra> ajmitch, not only for bug assigning ... also for feeling like a part of it :p
<ajmitch> that's what will control uploading
<ajmitch> ogra: oh sure :P
<ogra> *g*
<ajmitch> ogra: isn't the fame & the glory enough?
* ajmitch gets busy making packages for debian
<ogra> sure... but thats like your "MOTU passport" :)
<syouth> siretart: But when I want to get membership, I need someone inside Ubuntu to sign my key?
<ajmitch> syouth: someone in the strong set, not necessarily in ubuntu
<ogra> syouth, get his/her key id and check if there is *any* connection via the trustpath to someone in the strong set: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
<ogra> that will suffice
<crimsun> back this afternoon (8h), cya folks.
<syouth> ogra: big thanks, I will investigate :)
<syouth> If i want to know my own fingerprint, then: gpg --fingerprint shows that?
<ogra> yup
<Treenaks> syouth: gpg --fingerprint your_keyid
<syouth> Which is my key_id?
<Treenaks> syouth: you know your key id right?
<dholbach> just    gpg --fingerprint <your mail adress>
<syouth> Sorry for n00b questions...
<Treenaks> syouth: otherwise, try your email address
<syouth> I have key, yes.
<dholbach> the thing after 1024D will be your keyaddress
<Treenaks> or 2048D or whatever
<syouth> ok
<Treenaks> 1024D/[8 numbers/letters] 
<ogra> the thing after "pub" :)
<Treenaks> those 8 numbers/letters = your key ID
<syouth> Thanks:)
<syouth> Oh. Seems like I have old pgp keys in pgp.mit.edu .. Can I erase them, because I don't use them. I created them in some practial exercises at school.
<Treenaks> no
<Treenaks> or at least, not afaik
<JanC> if you still have those keys you can invalidate them
<JanC> ('revoke' them)
<Nafallo> always make revocation certificats to store in safe places...
<Nafallo> I've learnt that now ;-)
<syouth> I think we don't have anyone in Estonia in strong set:P
<syouth> It was local gurus thought.
<syouth> Or can you recall any developer from Estonia for example?
<JanC> estonia = .ee, right?
<syouth> Yeah.
<ajmitch> great, we have a pqm deb now to control write access by email to baz & bzr branches :)
<ajmitch> yay, pqm broken due to dodgy make dist in upstream ;)
<syouth> So much for membership, but random movie suggestion for those who like scizofrenic and underground stuff from Japan - "Tetsuo" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096251/ :)
<ajmitch> yay for autotools braindamage
<JanC> syouth: I found a debian developer in latvia, I don't know if that's a possibility?
<syouth> This is a slim possibility, but I consider that. You may give his/her name?
<JanC> Aigars Mahinovs (aigarius)
<dholbach> JanC: it is, just mail him/her :)
<JanC> they have to meet in person...
* ajmitch is lucky to be around a number of DDs in dunedin
<ajmitch> I'm not sure if I'm the 4th or 5th DD here
<syouth> Yes, I know about meeting in person. That makes the thing so hard, if you don't have any trusted members in your home country ;)
<JanC> syouth: I'm pretty sure there must be some
<JanC> the problem is to find them  ;)
<syouth> Ok. I will go try to ask at another #linux.ee
<JanC> nobody went to the debian conference in finland?
<syouth> I don't know. When was it?
<Treenaks> JanC: no, it was empty there ;)
<JanC> Treenaks: I mean from .ee  :)
<Treenaks> JanC: oh
<Treenaks> where is .ee?
<JanC> a small swim from .fi   ;)
<syouth> South from .fi and north to .lt
<syouth> *north from
<JanC> most north of the 3 baltic states
<syouth> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=estonia&spn=16.254873,52.769531&hl=en
<siretart> slomo_: I mailed you an email regarding plf, could you please proof read it?
<ajmitch> hm, this is an ugly package I made :)
<siretart> I guess our autobuilders are quite busy atm, are they? ;)
<ajmitch> a little
<siretart> hehe
<ajmitch> there's a queue of ~1300 at last report
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch moves config-manager from recommends to depends
<siretart> hm. vorlon filed an RC bugreport against a package of me..
<ajmitch> siretart: oh?
<ajmitch> what did you break?
<siretart> ajmitch: I didn't break anything, python and wxwidgets packages was renamed
<ajmitch> right
<siretart> ajmitch: so londonlaw is uninstallble in debian for now. I already prepared a fixed package, but I cannot test it yet
<ajmitch> so you didn't upgrade in time :)
<siretart> yet in 'right now'
<siretart> yeah, was busy with university and breezy ;)
<ajmitch> no excuse :P
<JanC> syouth: debconf 5 was in july this year & several people went to estonia for one day, that would have been *the* oportunity to get your key signed...
<syouth> So if 1 person in Estonia gets into this trusted cirle and that 1 person signes other persons here in Estonia, they are all in the trusted circle
<thesaltydog> syouth, yes
<syouth> And if this one person somehow loses his/her key or something like that, all the others lose trust too..
<thesaltydog> no. What do you mean by "loses"
<syouth> He can die, he revokes key ... something like that
<ajmitch> if there's only 1 person linking the chain..
<ajmitch> then yes, the others wouldn't be linked to the strong set
<ajmitch> which is why it's good to collect signatures
<thesaltydog> sy if his key is revoked and you are linked only to him, you will break your chain
<syouth> Sounds logical...
<ploum> Hello
<ploum> anyone can tell me how to download the criawips package to test it ?
<hub> ploum: on REVU
<Treenaks> apt-get install criawips ?
<ploum> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=683 : I don't see any deb
<ajmitch> source only on revu
<ajmitch> since it's meant for reviewing packages
<ploum> ah ! Thanks ajmitch, I understand
<ajmitch> so grab the orig.tar.gz, the .dsc & the .diff.gz
<ajmitch> and build
<ploum> ajmitch, ok
<Yagisan> ajmitch: do you have access to a few i386 boxes and want to be a guinea pig ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: define 'a few'
<ploum> mm.. shame on me but is there some doc on how to make this ? (I did some deb packages but it was a long time ago)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: at least 2
<ajmitch> and what sort of guinea pig work is it?
<ajmitch> ploum: simple way is to dpkg-source -x package.dsc
<ajmitch> go into the directory
<ajmitch> debuild
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I need you to test my pbuilderrc and tell me if distcc fails on you with errors like:
<Yagisan> ajmitch: /usr/bin/gcc /opt/chroots/pbuilder/ccache/i386/log.tmp.doomguy.20566.i on localhost failed
* ajmitch doesn't have 2 fast machines
* Yagisan was using sub 300Mhz boxes
<ploum> thanks ajmitch :-)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: basically, I grabbed random packages out of universe (wesnoth, vegastrike) to test with
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> vegastrike is not small
* ajmitch compiled that a few times
<Yagisan> ajmitch: and they fail to build with distcc (all boxes a breezy)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: please suggest a tiny package then :) I'm sure distcc will f*ck it up
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> treecc, then :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: building now - lets see if that works
<Yagisan> ajmitch: It failed
<ajmitch> fun
<Yagisan> ajmitch: would you (or anyone else) like to check my pbuilderrc and distcc to see if it is pebac or a broken package ?
<ajmitch> show me the config then
* ajmitch detests dcc
<highvoltage> i just installed uw-imapd, and the version number is 2002edebian1-11sarge1, it is the right package, right? i can't recall seeing sarge in any of my ubuntu packages before.
<ajmitch> highvoltage: that's probably right
<ajmitch>   uw-imapd | 7:2002edebian1-11sarge1 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/universe Packages
<highvoltage> ajmitch: ah, ok. thanks
<Yagisan> ajmitch: want the failed build log from treecc too ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: sure
<ajmitch> so configure went fine..
<ajmitch> mm, cdbs
<ajmitch> it got through a few C files before choking & dying
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep, it happens with anything I build with distcc
<ajmitch> distcc isn't saying much
<Yagisan> ajmitch: be back in a sec
* ajmitch confirmed that treecc builds fine as-is in a breezy pbuilder
<ajmitch> I'd be worried if it didn't
<ajmitch> and would have to lart the debian maintainer
<\sh>   gcc: Depends: cpp (>= 4:4.0.2-1) but 4:4.0.1-3 is to be installed
<\sh>        Depends: gcc-4.0 (>= 4.0.2-2) but 4.0.1-4ubuntu9 is to be installed
<\sh> GRRRR
<Yagisan> ajmitch: all packages build fine without distcc :(
<ajmitch> you're surprised?
* ajmitch hasn't used distcc enough to tell
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'll try building with only ccache and no distcc
<Yagisan> ajmitch: perfect build
<ajmitch> k
<Yagisan> ajmitch: when building unless otherwise specified it uses the default gcc which is 4 right ?
<ajmitch> yes
<Yagisan> ajmitch: ok - then I'm not having gcc mismatched versions
<Yagisan> ajmitch: I'm going to build a pbuilder on the box at 192.168.1.1 to rule out hardware issues
<\sh> haha...rejected a bug
<Yagisan> \sh: which one ?
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/wpasupplicant/+bug/3404
<ajmitch> oh that one
* ajmitch looks at that earlier
<ajmitch> but I didn't have my madwifi card on hand to test :)
* Yagisan is still waiting for pbuilder create to finish on the k6/2
<\sh> ajmitch: it works, but not with dhcp..because it tries somehow wpa2 first...
<\sh> ajmitch: but it's more an madwifi problem...it's fixed in the next version of madwifi
<ajmitch> ok
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> i made a mistake
<\sh> I put deb ... dapper in my sources.lsit
<ajmitch> time for sleep, will be back in ~4 hrs :)
<\sh> rmpf
<derek_> \sh: whats wrong with it
<Yagisan> night ajmitch
<\sh> derek_: nothing...but toolchain is broken
<dereks> ohh
<pietrus> hello folks
* Yagisan sighs - 5 pbuilder creates in a row on a ssslllloooowwww box and each time they are stuffed by a md5sum mismatch from breezy-security
* Yagisan sighs, 6 times now. ajmitch - I'll tell you tomorrow if it is a hardware issue
<YokoZar> Wine 0.9 Beta just came out about 30 mins ago.  I'm going to put together the Ubuntu package.  ETA on the package will be 4 hours, since I need to finish D/Ling, compiling, and going to class for the day.
<YokoZar> After that, perhaps we could discuss Wine 0.9 in Universe
<dholbach> YokoZar: we heard it in ONE channel
<dholbach> we now have http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU for reviewing packages
<YokoZar> dholbach: forgot about this channel
<YokoZar> I've been a bit homeless/without computer for a month
<YokoZar> Just in time to miss Breezy's release, heh.
<siretart> YokoZar: are you wine upstream?
<YokoZar> siretart: yes
<HWolf> Can I close malone 3073?
<YokoZar> But I make Ubuntu packages too, siretart
<HWolf> Lathiat, ?
<Lathiat> HWolf: ?
<HWolf> Lathiat, malone 3073 should be closed, right?
<siretart> YokoZar: aah, so I remember now
<YokoZar> Ok, I'll be back in 3 hours or so, gotta go to class
<Lathiat> i guess so
<siretart> YokoZar: \sh was our wine hero so far
<Lathiat> i mean what hes saying is valid
<Lathiat> but
<siretart> YokoZar: have fun!
<Lathiat> its not
<Lathiat> sortof
<Lathiat> mysql-server wants an MTA
<ogra> YokoZar, \sh uploaded your packages for the last release :)
<Lathiat> end of story
<HWolf> Lathiat, notabug imho
<Lathiat> its not a hula bug by any stretch of the imagination
<YokoZar> ogra: Wow, what good news to hear while I was offline!  I think he emailed me and I didn't read it yet.
<Lathiat> ill mark it wontfix ?
<HWolf> i'll do it. :)
<Lathiat> bah and i just logged in :)
<Lathiat> rejected, priority: wontfix
<HWolf> :)
<ogra> YokoZar, ys, i pointed him to you... for dapper you two should work together ... or even better you should finally become MOTU and get them in yourself ;)
<siretart> YokoZar: if you have some packages which need to be reviewed/uploaded to ubuntu, just tell me or \sh. Or even better: upload them to revu ;)
<pef> can someone review this ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=819 thanks !
<siretart> pef: I'm revu-building this for you
<hub> pef: version -1ubuntu1 without a -1?
<hub> it dapper open?
<pef> hub: yes
<hub> so they did resync from Debian?
<pef> hub: about 2000 packages
<siretart> hub: it's not 'they', it's 'we' :)
<hub> siretart: sorry.
<hub> ok
<pef> siretart: wrong version, I'm reuploading a new
<siretart> ;)
<hub> so one of my package on REVU may be there too as it has been upload to debian
<pef> hub: you should check this http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-changes-auto
<pef> siretart: corrected http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=820
<pef> bbl
<hub> I'll get my key signed soon anyway
<hub> at UBZ
<dholbach> yay! :)
<hub> dholbach: given that I'm local, how else could I do that :-)\
<thesaltydog> how can I get rid of a lot of these messages: debian: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (0)  during pbuilder process?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> anyone has successfully build stuff in the last lets say 4 hours?
<\sh> since gcc-defaults synced?
<hub> crap
<ajmitch> morning all
<hub> the broken keycode in breezy PowerPC did bite me
<YokoZar> Ok, what's the quickest way to go from a source package to the ready-to-compile/update state?
<YokoZar> There's apt-get source (package)  and then tar -xzf package.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> apt-get source will unpack it for you
<YokoZar> oh?
<ajmitch> that's what it's intended for
<YokoZar> Somehow I ended up with a .dsc and two tar.gz's
<ajmitch> because it runs dpkg-source
<ajmitch> eg..
<ajmitch> Fetched 966kB in 9s (98.4kB/s)
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: extracting config-manager in config-manager-0.1p123
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: unpacking config-manager_0.1p123.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: applying ./config-manager_0.1p123-1.diff.gz
<ajmitch> so you get a directory config-manager-0.1p123
<YokoZar> ok, here's what happened: didn't yet have build-essentials, so apt-get source bugged out
<YokoZar> It should test for that
<ajmitch> no, it's expected that you have build-essential
<ajmitch> since it's essential..
<YokoZar> Well, yeah, it is
<YokoZar> But, if it's essential, then why don't I have it, until I remember to install it after apt bugs out, eh?
<YokoZar> Meh, not that important ;)
<\sh> hehe..new pictures from ISH NOC ,-)
<sivang> \sh: if I have a couple of rpms, and I want to create a debian package that use them together with alien, and do a couple of postint stuff based on users' answers, how should I go about that?
<\sh> sivang: don't use rpm and repackage the stuff to a real package..and use debconf
<sivang> \sh: I want to do this for the meanwhile, in the future that will be possible
<sivang> \sh: currently I need to follow that path
<sivang> \sh: it's possible, right?
<\sh> sivang: yes...but you need for user interaction debconf anyways
<sivang> \sh: but currently I can't get the source rpms :)
<\sh> sivang: why not?
<YokoZar> what package is uupdate in?
<\sh> sivang: but alien more for rpm deb conversion of the binary packages...
<YokoZar> This is weird...why don't I have uupdate...
<jamessan|work> YokoZar: devscripts, I think
<YokoZar> ahh, thanks
<\sh> YokoZar: you can forget about uupdate and the orig. wine tar.gzs :( the version is not matching our version scheme
<YokoZar> That's why you specify -v to uupdate :)
<\sh> YokoZar: better to put the orig wine tar.gz into another wine_<ubuntu version>.orig.tar.gz  and unpack it in debian/rules...how did I do it hmmm
<\sh> YokoZar: yeah...but I don't like it ;)
<YokoZar> uupdate -v 0.9.0-winehq for the Wine Apt repository, where I'll put this thing first
<\sh> btw....
<YokoZar> Yeah?
<\sh> everybody knows who YokoZar is? Scott Ritchie, master of the wine hq deb packages...please welcome him warmly...he will become our new wine motu :)
<Nafallo> amd64-wine? :-)
<Nafallo> YokoZar: welcome! :-)
<YokoZar> Nafallo: first things first.  I'll probably see if I can get a 64 bit package working in the next few days or this weekend
<YokoZar> It'll be more of an issue once Wine can actually run 64 bit windows apps, heh
<\sh> ok...I have to go to bed...tomorrow morning at 2UTC is my night over
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: gnight :-)
<\sh> YokoZar: good to have you on board :) and welcome to MOTU world :)
<YokoZar> Nice to be here :)
<\sh> g'night guys...and good morning ajmitch I think ;)
<sivang> \sh: why so early?
<ajmitch> :)
<sivang> \sh: good night :)
<ajmitch> night \sh
<\sh> sivang: work tomorrow at 2UTC :( right now, the first shift of my colleagues are starting to work for our changes in our tv-cable :)
<ajmitch> eek
<ajmitch> 2am shift is evil
<sivang> \sh: man, have a good night then brother - keep the faith
<\sh> sivang: yeah...see u all around tomorrow somehow :)
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch> hello
<tseng> how are merge bugs looking?
<dholbach> are there more than the old ones?
<tseng> i dont know
<dholbach> there are 44
<dholbach> 12486 is the last
<tseng> oh
<Kyral> hmmm
<Kyral> Time to reboot and see if she holds :D
<ajmitch> MoM not running yet
<ajmitch> Kyral: I wouldn't expect it
<Kyral> Oh?
<Nafallo> Kyral: tell me how she did later :-)
<Kyral> 404 Errors, WTF?
<ajmitch> Kyral: initramfs-tools got clobbered by debian merge, so if you re-ran update-initramfs or similar..
<Kyral> I don't need an initrd ;P
<Kyral> I recompiled my kernel so all the stuff I need is in it
<tseng> ill upgrade in a week or two maybe
<ajmitch> good luck then :P
<Nafallo> I can't even install new initramfs-tools :-)
<ajmitch> tseng: things won't be much better then due to UBZ
<Kyral> I switched over to 2.6.13.4
<tseng> oh right
<ajmitch> the buildd backlog will be cleared, but most merge work will still remain
<ajmitch> so plenty of stuff might not even be installable
<ajmitch> yay for random bug assigning
<ajmitch> someone assigning a scribus bug to MOTU
<dholbach> can have been me, somebody complained about a bug assigned to motu
<ajmitch> when it's actually a launchpad thing
<dholbach> oh? launchpad?
<ajmitch> dholbach: Hidde Brugmans ?
<dholbach> hiddenwolf?
<ajmitch> dholbach: the scribus bug is complaining about the launchpad description
<ajmitch> at
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> so that's who it is
<Kyral> Okay, here goes
<ajmitch> #1481 btw
<Kyral> Aside from my normal reboot hiccups, no problems
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> shouldn't the swap be clean between each hibernation? ;-)
<Kyral> and GAIM just went
<Kyral> Did GAIM get updated?
<Kyral> Though my asshole friends maybe the cause, assholes found an exploit in GAIM that allows crashing
<Nafallo> what the heck is up with my apt-proxy?
<tseng> it is crappy software
<Nafallo> fails, downloads 2, fails, downloads 2, etc...
<sivang> lol
<Kyral> My ping is all over the place, WTF
<Kyral> Anyway everything is stable ATM
<Nafallo> I should remake my swap :-P
<Kyral> ...why?
<Nafallo> Swap:          956        382        574
<Nafallo> that's two hibernations...
<Kyral> Ah
<Kyral> I don't hibernate this thing
<Kyral> and WTF is up with my ping
<Nafallo> why the hell doesn't it clean up after successfully woke up?
<Kyral> someone ping me, I can't believe what XChat right now
<jamessan|work> 4.171 seconds
<Nafallo> 4.91 here
<Kyral> this is odd....either my college's internet conn is being flooded...
<Nafallo> can anyone reproduce that hibernation problem btw? :-)
<Kyral> Anyone wanna venture a guess as to why there are two instances of GDM on my process list?
<Amaranth> Kyral: you ran gdmflexiserver?
<Amaranth> (hit ctrl-alt-f8)
<Kyral> There is something there, the error msg from X earlier
<Kyral> WTF is gdmflexiserver?
<tseng> can you please take it easy on the WTF factor
<tseng> esp. when someone is trying to help you
<Kyral> sorry ;P
* tseng goes back to a 3 table SQL join
<Amaranth> Kyral: starts a new X session on another display so a new user can login while the other is still logged in
<Kyral> Umm, seeing as I'm the only person who uses this computer, can I disable it somehow?
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<tseng> i have 2 also
<Amaranth> that is the extent of my knowledge
<tseng> probably threads
<Amaranth> from when i was trying to make a FUSA-like thing
<ajmitch> dapper has been open for ages & I still haven't done an upload
<dholbach> "ages" :)
<ajmitch> in the world of MOTU it is :)
<Nafallo> hehe
* Amaranth will be getting his first package into dapper on thursday
* ajmitch should upload his queued debian packages
<Amaranth> although my package is heading for main so it's a little different
* ajmitch doesn't plan any main uploads until UBZ
<Amaranth> btw, since when did Packages.gz get updated before the files were acually in the archive?
<ajmitch> since I've only got ~2 days :)
<Kyral> Okaay
<Kyral> Alsa went down
<ajmitch> gah
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: building gnue-common in gnue-common_0.6.1-1.diff.gz
<Kyral> Note to self, get a mixer ;P
<ajmitch> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to .bzr/weaves/c7/lt.gmo-20051022093541-76dd51f19aa9010b.weave: binary file contents changed
* ajmitch remembers to add -i.bzr :)
<siretart> slomo: I bounced the email to slomo@ubuntu.com
<slomo> siretart: weird... what was the subject? maybe spamassassin didn't like it
<siretart> slomo: is mail@slomosnail.de obsoleted?
<siretart> Subject: Collaboration with ubuntu
<slomo> no... slomo@u.c is a forward to mail@slomosnail.de
<siretart> strange
<slomo> no... i didn't get the mail :(
<slomo> please send it again
<slomo> hm
<siretart> I already bounced it to slomo@ubuntu.com
<slomo> ah there it is
<siretart> great.
<slomo> hehe
<siretart> consider it draft state
<slomo> the mail is "From:"
<slomo> ;)
<siretart> "From:"?
<siretart> a, from nobody, that is because of strange bouncing ;)
<slomo> yes... nothing ;)
<ivoks> hi
<slomo> hi ivoks :)
<siretart> hi ivoks
<slomo> siretart: your mail to keyring@tiber was from nobody too
<ivoks> time for croatian loco :)
* ivoks was busy creating hr loco team, so i wasn't here much
<ajmitch> hi
<slomo> hi ajmitch
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
<siretart> gn8 folks!
<slomo> gn8 siretart
<crimsun> slomo: hi. What are the plans for ffmpeg in Dapper? Are we migrating to Christian Marillat's packages, or are we going to ask for xvidcore (source) and libpostproc-dev (binary) to be promoted to universe?
<slomo> crimsun: i plan to get marillat's ffmpeg into dapper... but this must be in multiverse. but we can promote libpostproc/libpostproc-dev to universe if needed
<slomo> and isn't xvid already in universe?
<slomo> oh, no
<slomo> multiverse
<crimsun> well, if we migrate to Christian's ffmpeg, then we'll have to demote virtually everything that depends on its -dev binaries, too
<crimsun> just going off recent work, vlc would be neutered unless it, too, were demoted
<slomo> yes but vlc must be in multiverse anyway... imho...
<slomo> or faad2 can be promoted to universe ;)
* Kyral ears perk up at the mention of VLC
<crimsun> Kyral: vlc | 0.8.4-svn20051025-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Packages
<Kyral> uhh
<Kyral> vlc
<Kyral> VLC media player 0.8.4-test1 Janus
<Kyral> Segmentation fault
<crimsun> it hasn't built yet on ppc, amd64, or ia64 due to libmodplugc2 not being available
<Kyral> Just installed it outta Dapper
<slomo> crimsun: vlc contains the complete faad2 sources iirc... so it should be in multiverse. i don't know what else is in the sources...
<slomo> but what other objections would you have against choosing marillat's ffmpeg and the multiverse demotion?
<slomo> all other packages that are using ffmpeg now are nothing that important... only vlc is
<crimsun> slomo: I have no other objections if we're going to demote everything to multiverse
<crimsun> s/other//g
<slomo> oh, vlc contains it's own ffmpeg copy?
* Nafallo goes to sleep, gnight
<crimsun> slomo: currently yes
<crimsun> slomo: due to the libpostproc-dev mess
<slomo> hm, is it allowed to promote binaries from multiverse to universe?
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> why is it segfaulting on me....
<Kyral> It has to be something in my system, but what....
<crimsun> rm -rf ~/.vlc
<Kyral> Wouldn't an aptitude purge do that?
<crimsun> then paste me (paste.ubuntulinux.nl) the output from vlc -vv
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> nothing in ~/. is ever touched
<slomo> crimsun: i planned to send a mail about ffmpeg and moving everything depending on it to multiverse to ubuntu-devel next week... maybe we can prepare this mail together so we don't miss a package ;)
<crimsun> slomo: sounds fine to me
<slomo> and do you know other ffmpeg users that are not in multiverse? (except gst-ffmpeg)
<crimsun> kino and motion
<crimsun> (main and universe, respectively)
<HWolf> Lathiat, ping
<slomo> hm... should these 2 be moved too?
<slomo> or do they contain a legally clean ffmpeg?
<crimsun> err, n/m
<crimsun> they both have ffmpeg as a Recommends
<crimsun> (Suggests for kino)
<crimsun> so afaics, we're fine
<slomo> yes
<slomo> but i wonder how many packages like vlc are out there... which ship their own ffmpeg ;)
<crimsun> Kyral: uname -m
<crimsun> slomo: vlc is special-cased afaict
<Kyral> i686
<crimsun> slomo: and that special case will go away once it's demoted
<Kyral> wait...why does it say that I'm on an Athlon K7....
<slomo> crimsun: other to-be-moved packages are gem, gnusound, lynkeos.app, motion, opencv, smilutils
<slomo> crimsun: ok, so what about gst-ffmpeg?
<slomo> crimsun: this one ships it's own ffmpeg version
<HWolf> anyone here able/willing to reply to a raging user?
<crimsun> slomo: but is that internal version specific to it?
<slomo> crimsun: that's the question... hm, i'll take a look at it
<crimsun> Kyral: is this after you've cleaned ~/.vlc ?
<slomo> HWolf: depends ;)
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> ~./vlc doesn't exist, period
<HWolf> slomo, I closed a bug earlier, and got a mail which I have no clue how to deal with.
<slomo> HWolf: hmm... a rude mail? ;)
<HWolf> I've got no clue what he's saying, even.
<HWolf> slomo, agressive, not rude.
<HWolf> You might want to pass along to the powers that be that I'm getting tired of FIGHTING "software that just works".  As I sit here I am seriously contemplating going back to Engarde for my server purposes.
<HWolf> that's the politest bit. :)
<HWolf> But I still don't know what piont he was making.
<crimsun> Kyral: what cpu are you using?
<Kyral> Athlon XP 2700+
<slomo> HWolf: hehe... maybe give the mail to some native english speaker ;)
<crimsun> Kyral: did you purge vlc and wxvlc?
<Kyral> When I killed VLC, it took wxvlc with it
<slomo> crimsun: gst-ffmpeg's ffmpeg seems to be the complete ffmpeg with maybe some changes... so -> multiverse imho
<HWolf> slomo, I'm doing an international english-language education, I can communicate professionally with over 60 nationalities, but this is just wrong. :)
<crimsun> slomo: ok
<crimsun> Kyral: can you reproduce this on Breezy's stock kernel?
<slomo> HWolf: lol ok... then answer his mail with a simple "what are you trying to tell me?" ;)
<Kyral> Uhh....I don't have a Breezy stock kernel anymore....
<Kyral> I could reinstall it ;P
<crimsun> Kyral: or rather Dapper's, which is Breezy's atm...
<Kyral> ain't initrd stuff messed atm?
<slomo> crimsun: i'll get a mail ready for next wednesday for moving everything to multiverse
<slomo> btw... who broke vim? :(
<crimsun> vim works fine here
<slomo> i get: Error detected while processing /home/slomo/.vimrc:
<slomo> line   46:
<slomo> E484: Can't open file /usr/share/vim/vim63/syntax/syntax.vim
<slomo> at that line there is "syntax on"
<Kyral> oh Stock you mean the 386 or the K7?
<crimsun> Kyral: initramfs is held back (I use aptitude)
<crimsun> Kyral: either
<Kyral> What would my kernel have to do with it...
<crimsun> slomo: why would there be one? Dapper has 6.4. What does line 46 of your ~/.vimrc say?
<Kyral> I have to reinstall LRM too...forgot about that...
<crimsun> oh, syntax on?
<slomo> crimsun: "syntax on", nothing else ;) i get the same error when doing "syntax on" in a running vim
<slomo> i wonder why it looks in the 6.3 directories...
<slomo> there's nothing about that in any config
<Kyral> Okay here goes
<crimsun> slomo: which vim packages do you have installed? I only have vim and vim-common
<slomo> crimsun: vim, vim-gnome and vim-common
<slomo> it happens with vim and gvim
<crimsun> might be vim-gnome, then
<crimsun> though I can't see why
<slomo> let's purge vim-common and rdepends and see what a reinstall solve ;)
<crimsun> yeah
<crimsun> syn on works fine here
<slomo> Hole:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main vim-common 1:6.3-078+1ubuntu3 [3424kB] 
<slomo> hmmm
<slomo> let's do an apt-get update before ;)
<crimsun> hah, yeah
<slomo> ok, now everything in 6.4 ;)
<slomo> works fine
<slomo> narf
<slomo> =)
<crimsun> excellent.
<slomo> but the archives seem to be a bit flakey today anyway...
<Kyral> crimsun: Same thing
<Kyral> now can I please get outta this kernel. It irks me ;P
<crimsun> Kyral: ok, then something's amiss in your /usr/lib/vlc
<Kyral> should I nuke it?
<crimsun> use vlc -vvv this tme
<crimsun> time
<Kyral> its the exact same output
<crimsun> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3612 is mine
<Kyral> I've gotta go to dinner. Which means I'm rebooting to my 2.6.13.4
<Kyral> should I kill the /usr/lib/vlc dir?
<crimsun> purging vlc takes care of that
<crimsun> I'll need strace output instead
<Kyral> After dinner mkay?
<Kyral> I'm hungry
<Kyral> crimsun if there is any output you want leave me a PMSG
<ogra> slomo, cd /usr/share/vim/ && sudo rm -r vim63 &&  sudo ln -s vim64 vim63
<ogra> slomo, ^^^ workaround
<slomo> apt-get purge vim-common && apt-get update && apt-get install vim-gnome
<slomo> imho a better fix ;)
<slomo> i had some parts of 6.3 and some of 6.4... no idea why
<ivoks> yeah! i love VPN :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-23
<astinus> j #gentoo-security,#gentoo-infra
<astinus> Erk
<jikanter> after creating my gpg key, I got similar output as the tutorial online at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto, but I am still a bit confused about the output and which information I need to save.  Is my private key stored somewhere where I can retrieve it?
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Nafallo> hi Hobbsee :-)
<ajmitch> morning Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> LP notifies on build failures now, does it?
<ajmitch> you're up early ;)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: as is evident by emails you may receive
<Fujitsu> I'm wondering why I got emails about builds that failed... about 2 months ago? Or has is decided to try to rebuild them?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm at uni on time :P
<ajmitch> mass give-back
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: worrying
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.
<Fujitsu> Aha, thanks.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: how's gcl/maxima
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, dholbach says he'll look at the Dapper fix once Edgy is released.
<Fujitsu> In general though, I don't know.
* Fujitsu looks.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: grrr
<Fujitsu> So we're stuck with `It doesn't work! Fix it now! This isn't good enough for a LTS release!' from all our loyal users.
<LaserJock> hmm, well this is a bit silly
<Fujitsu> It is a fairly nasty breakage in what could be a very important package to a lot of people, so it's understandable they're rather irritated.
<LaserJock> I don't see why we need to wait 2-3 weeks for this
<LaserJock> but whatever :-)
<crimsun> well, sound will be broken for a huge number of people when Edgy releases. I'm not happy either, but if the release manager says it goes, then it goes.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, what's wrong with it?
<crimsun> half the HDA codecs are missing vital patches that weren't available til October
<ajmitch> that's unfortunate
<Fujitsu> Fun.
<Fujitsu> I saw a patch by you a while ago which fixes my microphone, I believe.
<Fujitsu> (STAC92xx)
<crimsun> I'm having lots of fun supporting two releases simultaneously, and when Edgy+1 opens, three!
<Fujitsu> Isn't sound, you know... Fairly important?
<Fujitsu> Yes, fun fun fun.
<crimsun> well, to many people, yes, quite critical. In the grand scheme of whether the machine boots, however, it's rather tertiary.
<LaserJock> well, I would hope at this stage in the game we are past the "Does it boot or not?" question, but yeah
<LaserJock> I'm amazed at how fragile Ubuntu is at times
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not necessarily
<ajmitch> just spend 5 minutes in the forums & you'll see
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, nooooo.
<crimsun> many of the problems are with newer hardware, and that's always an issue.
<crimsun> chucking new kernels into the repo right up until release just to support newer hardware is madness
<ajmitch> I agree
<ajmitch> crimsun: isn't the sound problem mainly newer hardware?
<crimsun> yep, HDA nearly exclusively
<ajmitch> at least I haven't spotted issues with the hda codec with my laptop
<crimsun> mostly Realtek and Sigmatel HDA codecs
* ajmitch checks his laptop
<ajmitch> some realtek, I can't recall which now
<Fujitsu> My Inspiron 630m (almost a year old now) still has no working microphone, so it's not just /new/ hardware.
<ajmitch> Codec: Realtek ALC260
<astinus> Fujitsu: Aye, but I'd argue that in the grand scheme of things it goes;  Does the system boot? --> Can it be used day-to-day (Xorg, etc)? --> Does little things work (sound)? --> Does even littler things work (microphones)?
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> works nicely thanks to crimsun :)
<crimsun> Fujitsu: it's new in terms of support.
<crimsun> $ grep -nH 630 *
<crimsun> patch_sigmatel.c:595:     .config = STAC_REF }, /* Dell Inspiron 630m */
<Fujitsu> astinus, true.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, :O
<astinus> Fujitsu: Very little consolation, I agree, but there's only so many hours in the day :P
<Fujitsu> astinus, but I saw the patch to fix the microphone on the kernel-team mailing list a couple of weeks back... So close.
<ajmitch> kernel has to freeze earlier for good reasons
<Fujitsu> At least, I presume it was the right patch. Almost identical hardware, same symptoms.
<astinus> Fujitsu: Awesome :)  I'm very thankful, my laptop with Intel HDA seems to 'just work' and its brand new... I've got a Samsung Q35 with a Core Duo 1.83GHz...
<astinus> (Interestingly enough I always hit issues with new laptop + Gentoo, but no issues with same laptop + Ubuntu *grin*  Lord knows why that might be....)
<CarlFK> where can I post problems I have when I build spe.deb using the script at the bottom of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb
<theCore> that's funny...
<theCore> I'm getting support request by email from people I don
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<theCore> don't know*
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 2d 2h 18m 26s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
<zul> theCore: that happens all the time
<theCore> zul, how should I handle them?
<zul> theCore: what i do is if they are bug reports ask them to open up in launchpad, if they are support answer them back :)
<theCore> I wonder how they got my email...
<theCore> oh, I get it they found my Jabber account, which uses the same address
<theCore> I wonder if they send their email to many peoples. A bit like spammers, but instead of your money, they want support
<rmjb> hi, I have a question
<Fujitsu> Hi rmjb.
<rmjb> why do I get an error if I apt-get source a package then sudo pbuilder build it
<rmjb> shouldn't source packages from the repos build without a problem?
<rmjb> hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> rmjb, not always. Some of them break when we get newer versions of other packages, for example.
<Fujitsu> Which package in particular?
<rmjb> dmraid
<Fujitsu> That hasn't been built on Edgy before, so it is quite possible for it to be broken.
<rmjb> I'm actually trying to fix/upgrade it as my first package
<rmjb> but it's is giving me some problems
<rmjb> this is one for example:
<rmjb> dh_installdocs 1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}
<rmjb> cp: cannot stat `1.0.0.rc13/{CREDITS,KNOWN_BUGS,README,TODO}': No such file or directory
<Fujitsu> OK, I'm building it here at the moment to see what its issues are...
<Fujitsu> Aha!
<Fujitsu> A bashism.
<rmjb> dh_installdocs was upgraded since dapper?
<Fujitsu> In Edgy, we've changed over to using dash, rather than bash, as the default shell.
<rmjb> oh... so that's why
<rmjb> need to do this the long way then
<Fujitsu> The {whatever,whatever2} etc. stuff is specifically for bash, doesn't work in dash.
<rmjb> thanks Fujitsu!
<Fujitsu> Yes, you'll have to do it manually.
<rmjb> been trying to figure why it doesn't work since yesterday
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<rmjb> btw, how'd you know it wasn't built on edgy yet?
<Fujitsu> /usr/share/apt-cacher/apt-cacher-import.pl
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Stupid thing didn't copy...
<Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid
<Fujitsu> If you look there, you'll see that the version in Edgy is the same as in Dapper, so the binaries were migrated over.
<rmjb> okay I see
<Fujitsu> Indeed, once that bashism is fixed, the package builds.
<rmjb> yeah, I got another error when I did an upgrade though
<rmjb> Installing dmraid.8 in /usr/share/man/man8
<rmjb> /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/share/man/man8/dmraid.8'
<rmjb> I don't know how that passes in the current version because I copied the same rules file over
<Fujitsu> Copy the entire debian/ over, there's other stuff there that is important....
<Fujitsu> Specifically, the dirs file.
<rmjb> yeah that's what I did
<Fujitsu> Hrm, there isn't one in this case.
<Fujitsu> Is that when building the package?
<rmjb> yes, the new upstream version, with the contents of the current version's debian directory
<Fujitsu> (currently building the new version to see what I can get out of it)
<rmjb> one thing that's needed in the upgrade is changing the starting position of dmraid in rcS from S03 to S11
<rmjb> I've done that in the rule, but update-rc.d does not reposition the script if it's there already
<rmjb> is there a standard procedure to do this?
<rmjb> s/rule/rules
<Fujitsu> Afternoon, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<rmjb> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi rmjb, sorry I haven't replied yet
<imbrandon> hello all
<rmjb> np LaserJock
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<rmjb> hey imbrandon
* Fujitsu runs off to find some lunch.
<Fujitsu> (I've been using KDE for almost 24 hours now, and I think I've eliminated the `ARGH! It's burning my eyes out!' sensation)
<rmjb> kubuntu konvert?
<Fujitsu> Not really, just having a look at the `other side'.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
<Fujitsu> It is a bit blindingly bright to start with.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, thats how it all starts ;)
<LaserJock> rmjb: with respect to your question, if there is a binary package in the archive it just means it built at some time
<LaserJock> rmjb: sometimes dependencies have changes since the package was last built
<rmjb> cool, Fujitsu ironed it out, he said the build error I was seeing was a bashism, since edgy symlinks /bin/sh to dash instead
<LaserJock> ah yeah
<ajmitch> fun
<rmjb> any tips on moving the position on a start script? I have to move dmraid to after udev (which is at S03)
<rmjb> can I call update-rc.d within the rules?
<rmjb> directly I mean, instead of through dh_installinit
<rmjb> s/on/of
<imbrandon> or convert it to an upstart job ;)
<rmjb> I'm game for that, did Scott do a howto or guide on that?
<imbrandon> no idea, i havent tried it yet, but upstart.ubuntu.com would be a good place to start
<rmjb> cool, thanks imbrandon
<imbrandon> i dont even know if its at a stage thats viable yet, but its a thought
<LaserJock> ohhh, nifty Debconf6 DVDs
<LaserJock> I must really be a geek when they only thing I burn to DVD is Debconf videos
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> hehe
* Hobbsee steals all the 'h' and 'e' 's and runs away with them
* Fujitsu calls the police.
<ajmitch> o dar
<ajmitch> obbs as stoln my kys
<imbrandon> lol
<rmjb> going to test my new (and first) dmraid package
<ajmitch> Amaranth: what's with the mass reversions on the BerylOnEdgy page?
<imbrandon> oh wow i dident know you could get debconf video downloads
<Amaranth> ajmitch: *hides*
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: :D
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Some stupidity with a guy from the forums.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: a little disagreement? :)
<imbrandon> theres a wiki for it? seems simple, enable composite in xorg.conf , start beryl
<imbrandon> done ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: plus install the various crackful packages
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe i just made my own with tonio
<Amaranth> imbrandon: It guides you through installing drivers, turning things on in xorg.conf, adding beryl repos, installing it, and adding it to startup scripts.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: beryl packages?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<ajmitch> they probably follow policy far far better than the current ones do then
<Amaranth> ajmitch: He wanted to have it include instructions for manually installing nvidia drivers from the original .run file, I said that was wrong because it breaks too easily.
<Amaranth> The current ones are a mess.
<imbrandon> install 2 packages , enable composite in xorg.conf and start beryl , seems simple, no need for other steps
<Amaranth> I've been meaning to sit down and make them not suck.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yes, DBO wanted me to look over them, then gave up on me when I couldn't do it quickly enough
<Amaranth> imbrandon: There are some tweaks and such.
<Amaranth> imbrandon: Just check it out: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOnEdgy
<imbrandon> ajmitch, want the source for the packages me and tonio did/use ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I don't have time to care about it at the moment
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> I'm sure that sabdfl will have someone on it asap :P
<rmjb> IT WORKED! yay!
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I can get AIGLX working on this laptop
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea thats the main reason we did it was for edgy+1 ( had no idea about the crack on the forums )
<imbrandon> LaserJock, do you have X working in edgy ?
<LaserJock> for some reason all the computers I work on have ATI graphics :(
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I worry about the push for it to be the default WM
<LaserJock> imbrandon: sure, but my problem as been ATI
<imbrandon> ajmitch, that would suck as its slow as piss, i have it installed but only start it to "show off"
<imbrandon> LaserJock, if you have X in edgy working you have aiglx working
<imbrandon> its built in
<LaserJock> well, but the ability to *use* it I mean
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: if I'm brave enough to install the beta nvidia drivers I *may* consider trying it
<imbrandon> LaserJock, sure, just make sure you have 3d rendering enabled and add ...
<imbrandon> Section "Extensions"
<imbrandon>         Option "Composite" "Enable"
<imbrandon> EndSection
<imbrandon> to xorg.conf, all done
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but does it work with fglrx drivers?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: No, you need XGL for that
<Amaranth> It's super easy for Intel users though, like imbrandon said.
<Amaranth> although apparently you also want Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"  in Device
<Amaranth> I dunno, I only wrote the nvidia section of that guide
<ajmitch> I should try beryl on the laptop I guess :)
<imbrandon> with aiglx it should be the same for all cards
<LaserJock> I'd try it on my nvidia box but it's got dapper
<ajmitch> since it has an i915 chip
<imbrandon> ajmitch, with intell just do what i said
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I heard it doesn't work for fglrx drivers
<imbrandon> its super easy
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Compiz runs OK, but it can be a little laggy at times with an i915.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I've run it before, thanks
<Fujitsu> (haven't tried Beryl)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, it does on my laptop with the "ati" drivers ( non binary )
<Fujitsu> fglrx in Edgy at the moment is stuffed, anyway.
<Amaranth> heh
* Amaranth hates /etc/rcS.d/S40networking
<LaserJock> imbrandon: right, but so far I haven't had any luck with the nonbinary drivers
<Fujitsu> What's wrong with it, Amaranth?
<Amaranth> I'm wireless only, no need to try to get a DHCP lease on every device with a massive timeout :P
<imbrandon> LaserJock, why ? X wont start ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I have unsupported cards
<Amaranth> I had like 1:48 boot time before I removed that, 0:35 boot time after.
<imbrandon> Amaranth, just edit your /etc/networking/interfaces then and comment out the rest
* ajmitch wonders how chipsets like the i915 get on with regards to texture memory allocation
<Amaranth> wow that's what changed from dapper to edgy
<Amaranth> i was wondering about that
<imbrandon> no its the same here on dapper and edgy
<imbrandon> dunno what your thinking
<Amaranth> In dapper I just had lo in there
<ajmitch> back in a few min
<Amaranth> And I don't remember modifying it, I would have remember the long boot times.
<imbrandon> somthing was stuffed up then
<Amaranth> It was good though, I use NetworkManager to handle my wireless. :)
<imbrandon> well if network manager actualy worked i might think about using it
<Amaranth> Oh well, I'm just happy to see a 0:35 boot time. :D
<LaserJock> oh cool, I am using "ati" on this lappy
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> brb, gonna see if this works :-)
* Fujitsu wonders if his LUKS-encrypted /home on LVM with USB key setup will actually work.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<LaserJock> haha, jiggly windows
<Fujitsu> Heheh, yeah.
<LaserJock> the cube is all right, doesn't seem as smooth as mine on OS X
<LaserJock> but still pretty cool
* ajmitch returns
<LaserJock> Alt-Tab is pretty nifty
<ajmitch> I guess :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, got it working ?>
<imbrandon> hehe
<Fujitsu> Brb, testing encryption magic.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah
<ajmitch> imbrandon: how up-to-date are your beryl packages?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, about 1 week old
<imbrandon> or so
<ajmitch> 0.1.1?
<imbrandon> should be , let me check to make absolute sure
<LaserJock> how do you get it to do the expose type thing
<imbrandon> ajmitch, no 1.0 shouldent be a big deal to update them though
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It was originally F12, not sure what it is nowadays.
<imbrandon> 0.1.0*
<ajmitch> imbrandon: maybe if the packages are better you should change the BerylOnEdgy page to point to them ;)
<ajmitch> making sure that you don't annoy Amaranth too much :)
<imbrandon> yea i was thinking the same thing
<Amaranth> ajmitch: haha
<Amaranth> imbrandon: If you get some decent 0.1.1 packages in a repo somewhere I'd be more then happy to tell users to use them.
<Amaranth> imbrandon: You might want to join #beryl-dev and poke someone though.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I'd be more willing to trust your packages, to be honest
<imbrandon> Amaranth, yea i'll update them from 0.1 to 0.1.1 tonight
<ajmitch> not meaning to insult those in the community who have gone to the effort of packaging
<ajmitch> but last I looked, they were crap :)
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I think they were made my someone in the debian mentors program thing
<Amaranth> err, by
<ajmitch> Amaranth: figures
<imbrandon> heh, one sec i'ma grab a soda and lok at it now, doing nothing atm anyhow
<crimsun> I love how someone posted a link to his own Flash 9 debs in a flashplugin-nonfree bug report
<ajmitch> that's no guarantee of quality
<ajmitch> crimsun: it hurts
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I know, it's really great.
<imbrandon> crimsun, ouch
<Amaranth> ajmitch: No, that makes me even more worried about their quality.
<ajmitch> crimsun: I frequently get to deal with backported/new crack for mono
<Fujitsu> Here are my debs. They're your problem now.
<imbrandon> LOL
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I tried to convince DBO to talk to the compiz maintainer for debian, but he didn't see the point
<Amaranth> Uh oh, we're going to get flamed again. :P
<ajmitch> Amaranth: why? :)
<Amaranth> "Ubuntu doesn't share the bling!"
<ajmitch> haha
<Amaranth> "Hey man, quit bogarting the pipe", etc etc etc
<Fujitsu> Erm, I take it beryl isn't working great :P
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: It has some serious design issues as admitted by the developers but apparently their emerald theme manager can now pull themes from SVN in the latest version....
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it is wonderful! do not question the Glorious Revolution!
<ajmitch> Amaranth: is there an ITP filed for beryl in debian yet?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: I believe so.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> then we won't bother pushing imbrandon's packages to debian then
<Amaranth> I say someone needs to bonk the beryl and compiz developers over the head a couple times and get them to just start over.
* Fujitsu runs off for real now... Hopefully dm-crypt won't explode in a giant fireball.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: oh, I see it - done by the guy who has the *wonderful* packaging in svn
<Amaranth> ajmitch: yeah, the guy in the mentors program
<ajmitch> the mentors program really is a loose term
<Amaranth> MyFirstPackage and all that
<ajmitch> it's a mailing list & irc channel
<imbrandon> i'm in the mentors program, that means nothing other than they signed up for a "sponsor"
<Amaranth> I dunno, he keeps talking about Debian Mentors. :P
<ajmitch> usually no structured mentoring at all
<imbrandon> exactly
<ajmitch> Amaranth: yes, I heard that he's all official & all, whatever that may mean
* ajmitch looks for the current svn url
<rmjb> coincidentally, I asked LaserJock to mentor me yesterday for MOTU
<Amaranth> svn co http://svn.beryl-project.org/trunk beryl
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> my copy has URL: svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl
<ajmitch> and I can't just do svn switch --relocate
<Amaranth> yeah, you wanna know something really....odd...about that setup?
<ajmitch> go ahead & scare me
<imbrandon> here is what i have at the moment , i'm updating them now to 0.1.1 http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/
<Amaranth> the metascape one is apparently the main SVN and the one on beryl-project.org is a mirror
<Amaranth> the metascape one runs on Quinn_Storm's personal desktop
<ajmitch> Amaranth: so why can't I do svn up now? :)
<ajmitch> I see..
<ajmitch> so if it's a mirror, why do they have different UUIDs?
<Amaranth> I have no idea.
* ajmitch cries
<ajmitch> get them to use bzr
<Amaranth> But they keep saying beryl-project.org's is a read-only mirror and that's not chaning.
<Amaranth> Hehe.
<ajmitch> then they can fork to their heart's content
<Amaranth> They're coming to Mountain View, persuade them. :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch / Amaranth are there any more packages on BerylOnEdgy than what i have http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27934/
<Lathiat> mm montain view, if only it wasnt on the other side of the world
<ajmitch> yay, a paid trip for bling in feisty
<Lathiat> LCA is expensive enough on the other side of the country :)
<Lathiat> oh wow beryl-project.org has a website now
<ajmitch> imbrandon: there's other crack
<Lathiat> it used to be just forums
<Amaranth> imbrandon: They have a 'beryl' metapackage and split beryl-plugins into beryl-plugins and beryl-plugins-data (something about a lintian warning about a large /usr/share)
<Amaranth> and beryl-dbus, dunno what that is
<ajmitch> imbrandon: there's also updated nvidia beta drivers from Amaranth (probably dodgy as hell :) )
<ajmitch> and some libxorg-sched-yield-hack0 thing that worries me
<Amaranth> I've recently been told that does more harm then good.
<ajmitch> that doesn't surprise me, given what it does
<Amaranth> It's only for nvidia while using AIGLX (which no sane person would do if they care about performance)
<ajmitch> nvidia+aiglx is stupid
<Lathiat> beryl seems to be *really* unstable
<Lathiat> compiz seemed to just break but it never crashed
<ajmitch> Lathiat: but it's great! beryl-by-default for feisty!
<Amaranth> ajmitch: It's not needed, nvidia provides the needed extension without aiglx
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I know
<Amaranth> yeah
<ajmitch> Amaranth: but too many users don't
<Lathiat> ajmitch: woo yeh!
<whiprush> do you need to shut off the aiglx specifically if you're using the nvidia beta drivers? or does it just skip all that?
<Amaranth> I've been meaning to remove that from the guide
<ajmitch> hey whiprush!
<whiprush> hi ajmitch!
<Amaranth> whiprush: Nope, it's off by default.
<whiprush> ajmitch: found a hotel
<ajmitch> Amaranth: I thought it was turned on by default for awhile, at least
<ajmitch> whiprush: sweeet
<ajmitch> where is it?
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<whiprush> about 5 minutes from the googleplex
<whiprush> right off the interstate
<ajmitch> whiprush: I'm on the same flight as mpt & infinity, as you may have seen
<whiprush> I will send you the info when I confirm
<ajmitch> great :)
<whiprush> ajmitch: excellent.
<whiprush> on the 4th?
<ajmitch> so at least I'll have someone to talk to in the airport
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> we're all flying to auckland from different places before going on NZ8 to SFO
<whiprush> nice
<Amaranth> Oh, another really scary thing. People in #beryl-dev keep asking me for advice because they say I have "project management experience". ;)
* imbrandon doubt anyone will be on the same flight as him
<imbrandon> Amaranth, hahaha
<ajmitch> Amaranth: lucky you
* Amaranth has only run one project
<Amaranth> And I'm the only developer of that project.
<ajmitch> I've only run one project, and noone uses that code yet!
<Amaranth> What is that?
<rmjb> how long after I dput something will it show up on REVU?
<imbrandon> ~5 min
<rmjb> cool
<rmjb> It got rejected... I'm supposed to ask you guys to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<ajmitch> rmjb: if you're in the group on launchpad
<rmjb> yep
<rmjb> I added myself earlier today... or yesterday in my case
<ajmitch> syncing
<LaserJock> ok, back to the land of reality
<LaserJock> that AIGLX+beryl stuff reminded me of Alice in Wonderland
<ajmitch> hah
<imbrandon> lol
<Amaranth> Heh
<Amaranth> Once you set some same values for things it's pretty nice.
<Amaranth> The default are utter crack though.
<ajmitch> the defaults are for maximum bling effect
<ajmitch> I'd rather have as little wobble as possible
<ajmitch> & I don't really need cube spinning, raindrops on my desk, etc
<rmjb> so after I upload something to REVU and you guys critique it and I fix and so on, is there any formal testing?
<LaserJock> just by the MOTU
<LaserJock> if we find it satisfactory to go into Universe we vote for it
<imbrandon> oh wow this is really crackfull
* imbrandon groans
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hm?
<ajmitch> do tell
<imbrandon> the svn checkouts arent matching up
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no kidding
<rmjb> okay cool...
* rmjb has fingers crossed
<ajmitch> as I said, different UUIDs, they're not even the same repository
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> it's like someone has done a complete separate import
<imbrandon> probably, they probably dident know better
* imbrandon hands Quinn bzr
<rmjb> ajmitch: good for the upload to REVU?
<ajmitch> rmjb: go ahead
<ajmitch> make sure you upload to revu, not ubuntu
<ajmitch> imbrandon: see ^^ several lines ;)
<imbrandon> looks up
<imbrandon> hahahahaa
<rmjb> thanks, it did go to ubuntu the last time
<ajmitch> crimsun: how should I nicely reject bug 67666 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67666 in firefox "Tried to download a video from Google Video" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67666
<ajmitch> I'm sure you must have a stock reply somewhere :)
<crimsun> (doesn't actually crash here, however)
<ajmitch> no, but it's a flash 9 issue
<ajmitch> of course
<imbrandon> hehe yea plays here too
<imbrandon> weird al
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: gotta love this thread title on the forums: "mathematica problem with XGL"
<imbrandon> probably more to do with the beta ff , or they have 1000 extentions loaded
<crimsun> ajmitch: a nice note regarding "Flash 9 being beta and completely unsupported in Ubuntu" is nice
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: yes, I noticed that... It's great!
<ajmitch> I just don't live on the edge enough
<imbrandon> ... fluent in java script as well as klingon .... hahahahaha
<ajmitch> I don't have beta nvidia drivers, beryl, or flash 9
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You hadn't seen that before?
<imbrandon> no, this is hilarious
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's what Weird Al Yankovic is good for! Hilarity! And White & Nerdy is particularly good.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I've only got flash 9 because of that recipe site my wife *has* to go to :-)
<imbrandon> and you tried beryl, welcome to the darkside LaserJock
<LaserJock> noooooo
<ajmitch> LaserJock: next you'll be installing imbrandon's luna themes
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<LaserJock> *Darth Vader voice* Luke .... I am your composite manager
<imbrandon> LaserJock, .... TheMuso .... i am .....
<imbrandon> bad pun /me stops
<TheMuso> ?
<imbrandon> s/Luke/TheMuso, as i said bad joke
<LaserJock> shesh
<TheMuso> Right.
<Fujitsu> You missed a trailing slash there, imbrandon!
<Fujitsu> GUILTY!
<imbrandon> omg your as bad as elkbuntu , she said the same thing yesterday, my answer is irc sed needs no closing slash
<imbrandon> ;)
<elkbuntu> that was longer ago than yesterday
<imbrandon> i made the RFC yesterday for irc sed
<imbrandon> err yea a few days ago heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: is it on the standards track?
<Fujitsu> Guilty, I say.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I tried KDE yesterday, beryl today, I have no idea what I'll do tomorrow ;-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: or is it just a draft at this stage?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea, RFC is in the mail
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: always lurking around in the shadows...
* Fujitsu grumbles.
<rmjb> LaserJock: Vista tomorrow!
* ajmitch should boot up vista
<LaserJock> rmjb: oh please no, don't give me nightmares
<Fujitsu> This LUKS cryptsetup stuff is annoying to set up on an existing installation.. Gotta move all the data elsewhere :'(
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, hush. you'll freak out the UDS attendees :
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: like me?
* Fujitsu dreams of the day when it'll be supported in the installation process.
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, well you cant freak yourself out. you already know.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: for the desktop cd, not likely
<imbrandon> i booted vista once .... http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/vista.jpg , long enough to take that shot, then formated
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: it's already supported in debian
<imbrandon> in d-i yea, not the live though i doubt, would be really hard
<ajmitch> imbrandon: oh man, I only got a 1.0 on the Windows Experience Index in vmware
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Well, it's not in the Ubuntu alternate installer at the moment...
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: depends if kamion decides to de-simplify the alternate installer for it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, thats a 3400+ with a high end nvidia card and still only got  a 2.0
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, not too hard to do in Ubiquity, if they implement LVM and co. (which is meant to be happening in Feisty)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you need more RAM, perhaps :)
<imbrandon> probably it only has 768 shared with video
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: adding all the UI for setting it up makes it more complex
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I gave the vista install 1.5GB in vmware
<Fujitsu> Ask for genuine Microsoft software!
<rmjb> cool, my upload made it to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3346
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, I expected more :/
<imbrandon> LaserJock, from ?
<LaserJock> vista
<LaserJock> I hadn't seen a screenshot before
<imbrandon> ahh hehe i dident, honestly it reminds me ALOT of kde now
<ajmitch> LaserJock: there's nothing special
<imbrandon> only kde was first
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I've got a screenshot as well if you want it
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<ajmitch> I'll have to trim it down
<LaserJock> I expected them to change the look
<ajmitch> it's a fullscreen screenshot
<LaserJock> the menu just looks like XP+bling
<imbrandon> it actualy works really diffrent, nested menus
<imbrandon> kinda a pita really
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, the screenshot I've got only has the login screen
<LaserJock> np
<imbrandon> like the spinx menu
<ajmitch> fullscreen == 2880x1200 here
<ajmitch> so it's a large png :)
<LaserJock> well, I'll probably not be getting Vista
<imbrandon> i'll be picking up osx 10.5 but not vista
<LaserJock> next computer I'll buy will have OS X or Ubuntu on it :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> Guys, you can't deny that Vista is worth the $600! It's got a new version of Solitaire!
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, tempting
<Fujitsu> And Inkball!
<imbrandon> and chess titans
<ajmitch> and it has better licensing!
<LaserJock> if Ubuntu doesn't come up with an equally cool Solitaire I might be forced to move back
<rmjb> hey LaserJock, if you get a chance, can you critique my upload to REVU?
<LaserJock> rmjb: I don't quite get the versioning
<LaserJock> I think maybe it needs to be 1.0.0.rc13-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> 1.0.0~rc13-0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> ah, that looks better
<ajmitch> don't break things when 1.0.0 comes out
<Fujitsu> What ajmitch said, rather than what my comment on REVU said about a minute ago.
<ajmitch> if you want to get this into edgy, it'd need a UVF exception
<rmjb> the rc is from upstream, still needs a ~ instead of a - ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> upstream can play silly with version numbers, but we can't
<imbrandon> yes so when 1.0 proper comes out it will upgrade
<rmjb> ok
<imbrandon> other wise 1.0.0.rc13 > 1.0.0 but 1.0.0~rc13 < 1.0.0
<imbrandon> rmjb, ^
<rmjb> i c
<ajmitch> imbrandon: got 0.1.1 whipped into shape? :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, bah i might have to just do a fresh backage using the /debian dir
<ajmitch> imbrandon: please do
<imbrandon> s/backage/package
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you were  using an ubuntu dir? :-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: fixed them yet? ;)
<LaserJock> are we there yet?
<ajmitch> I'm losing faith in you...
<imbrandon> zomg dir irl kthx bye .... heh
<imbrandon> no i'm trying to find out the REAL svn atm
<LaserJock> core-dev,  core-shmev
<imbrandon> the svn i was using isnt there anymore
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the users demand packages!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Compile/Sources
<imbrandon> svn://metascape.afraid.org/svnroot/beryl/
<ajmitch> that's the broken one
<ajmitch> svn://svn.beryl-project.org/beryl/trunk/
<rmjb> when you guys said "get this into edgy" you mean even after it's released? will the freeze be lifted after release or it stays?
<imbrandon> yea but it isnt matching my old source, so i'm just redoing it
<ajmitch> rmjb: not after release
* LaserJock runs
<rmjb> well dmraid is broken for edgy, this package fixes it (hopefully) so I hope it gets in some time
<imbrandon> oh snap whats this bdoc crap now, are they trying to make a whole DE ?
<imbrandon> bdock*
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure, why not?
* Hobbsee attacks LaserJock with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
<LaserJock> "Run away!"
<LaserJock> imbrandon: is that a beryl thing?
<imbrandon> yea i'm sorting it out again
<imbrandon> give me an hour or so i'll have something to poke at
<rmjb> okay, new versioning of dmraid is in REVU...
<imbrandon> oh wow , this is getting nuts, time to make one big debian package to generate all these
<imbrandon> otherwise versioning will be hell
<ajmitch> hey raphink
<rmjb> crap, lintian gave an error
<ajmitch> imbrandon: can't you use the tarballs instead of svn?
<ajmitch> or do they not do tarballs?
<imbrandon> i dont think there is tarball, leaste not last i looked
* imbrandon looks
<ajmitch> so they release, but don't release tarballs
<ajmitch> how useful
<imbrandon> yea
<raphink> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why do you need it as 1 source package?
<imbrandon> well i dont need to, but if they are all released at the same time it just makes sense really
<imbrandon> i was thinking kinda like mythplugins
<rmjb> ajmitch: I put the version on dmraid as 1.0.0~rc13-0ubuntu1 but lintian complained... is this why the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9-2ubuntu1?
<ajmitch> because it didn't use to be supported
<ajmitch> but it is supported in debian & ubuntu now (~ in versions)
<imbrandon> e.g. ignore lintian on that error
<rmjb> right
<rmjb> thanks
<LaserJock> well, what about keeping with the current upstream versioning?
<ajmitch> you mean 0.9.9+1.0.0, etc?
<ajmitch> it's an ugly workaround that ~ solves
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but if debian's got 0.9.9+1.0.0 going should we diverge from that
<rmjb> debian doesn't have rc13... which is needed to fix bug #54246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54246
<imbrandon> if the current version is 0.9.9+1.0.0.rc9 and we're updating to rc13 then your right
<rmjb> okay, reversion then...
* ajmitch is underwhelmed by #beryl-dev
<ajmitch> Amaranth: is it always like this?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: When Quinn is around it seems to be more hard development discussions
<Amaranth> otherwise, yeah
<ajmitch> ah, the future of feisty
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i was kinda of the same thinking
* ajmitch sobs
<LaserJock> why?
<LaserJock> surely beryl isn't the future of Feisty
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course it is
<ajmitch> sabdfl wants it
<imbrandon> there is a spec for bery-by-default
<LaserJock> well fine
<imbrandon> beryl*
<imbrandon> i really dont think it will fly just yet
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is Feisty isn't the *only* thing in Fiesty
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, but it's a rather visible thing
<LaserJock> as long as it has a switch to turn it off I'll be ok
<Amaranth> I guess that means we have 4 months to rewrite it from scratch.
<Amaranth> None of these guys really knows how to run a project like this.
<imbrandon> an easy way to turn it "on" would be better imho than default
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is zope installed by default in *buntu ?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course not
<LaserJock> imbrandon: +1
<ajmitch> how many people do you know of that would ever need it?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but it is in main
<ajmitch> zope3 is in main
<LaserJock> I was confused by that
<LaserJock> I didn't think it was
<ajmitch> zope2.9 is in universe
<ajmitch> they have quite different APIs
<ajmitch> most stuff for 2.x won't run on 3.x without porting
<LaserJock> so it's in main, just not installed
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> like apache is in main, but not installed
<ajmitch> or any other daemon
<whiprush> surely we all just get mjg59 stone hammered for most of the week and he'll fix the beryl problems.
<ajmitch> whiprush: surely it'll take a lot more than that
<whiprush> A man can dream.
<LaserJock> neato, my first blog spam :/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yay
<Lathiat> every time i tell someone how the reason i still use livejournal is because i never get comment spam etc
<Lathiat> the next day i get one
<Lathiat> 3 of 3 on that
<Lathiat> and thats the only 3 times i've ever got a comment spam
<LaserJock> I got a homeloans offer in spanish
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I see the zope question came up in #edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> the most popular CMS for zope (plone) is also only in universe now
<LaserJock> was plone in Main before?
<ajmitch> zope is slow to support newer python versions
<ajmitch> it was for awhile in breezy, not sure about dapper
<Lathiat> universe in dapper
<ajmitch> figures
<ajmitch> probably demoted in dapper or breezy due to python2.3
<ajmitch> I wonder how well my laptop will play with projectors now
<ajmitch> using the modesetting branch for the i810 driver
<imbrandon> Amaranth, ping
<Amaranth> imbrandon: pong
<whiprush> ajmitch: wait until you see keithp's X demo
<whiprush> it's /awesome/
<ajmitch> whiprush: yeah, I'd love to see stuff that windows has had for 10+ years :)
<imbrandon> Amaranth, make sure there isnt 0.1.1 tarballs please before i upload these ( i'm not speaking in there unless i have to )
* ajmitch turns off cynic mode
<Amaranth> imbrandon: isn't 0.1.1 tarballs, what?
<whiprush> ajmitch: 1995 has left the building!
<ajmitch> Amaranth: beryl crack
<Amaranth> whiprush: input/display hotplug?
<whiprush> output
<Amaranth> ajmitch: yeah, i know, i just don't understand what he means :P
<ajmitch> whiprush: we have some good catchup to do
<whiprush> I believe DanielS is doing the input stuff
<whiprush> ajmitch: yeah.
<Amaranth> xrandr++ or something
<imbrandon> e.g if they make tarballs or if there is only svn
<ajmitch> Amaranth: are there beryl 0.1.1 tarballs released?
<Burgundavia> whiprush: yes, daniels is doing the input stuff
<ajmitch> hey Burgundavia
<Amaranth> I think they just create a tag for a release then make packages
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> Amaranth: beat them round, please
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: xrandr was merged into trunk, no?
<Amaranth> and include stuff in the packages that isn't in the repo.... &%*#
<imbrandon> wonderfull *rolls eyes*
<Amaranth> Well, I think for 0.1 it was just debian/changelog things
<Amaranth> In SVN it was 0.1.0-1, in the packages it was 0.1.0-0ubuntu1
<Amaranth> fun crap like that
<ajmitch> imbrandon: put on the schedule for MV - "how to be a reponsible upstream"
<imbrandon> WHAT !?!
<imbrandon> ajmitch, no doubt
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Like I said, none of them has any idea how to run a project like this.
<imbrandon> they made a fork of a project and have no idea how to make a project !?!
<Burgundavia> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-October/019007.html
<Amaranth> And, the worst part about beryl is something it shares with compiz: the frame-limiter stuff at the core of the entire system is horribly buggy
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you expect any less?
<imbrandon> man i'm starting to see why ajmitch has the attitude he has , sad part is i'm adapting it
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry for it to rub off
<imbrandon> ajmitch, dont be, its warented it seems
* ajmitch listens to some soothing classical music
<Amaranth> Neither one of these projects is even close to making a sane default window manager.
<Burgundavia> you seen Marks other crack project for Fiesty?
<Amaranth> Although Redhat seems to be funding some people to work on compiz now so I have some hope for it.
<Burgundavia> tab-consistency
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: which one?
<ajmitch> oh that's been on there for awhile
<Amaranth> Beryl is just the toy I use until the real solution comes along. :)
<ajmitch> at least a year or so
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, yea i sat in on the voip for that one in edgy paris
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: it has been bumped to high
<ajmitch> yay
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: and?
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, its really not as bad as it sounds iirc
<Amaranth> Doesn't Firefox 2 actually basically copy GTK+'s tab style?
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: yes
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: FF 1.5
<Amaranth> And the spec is to make them all work like Firefox 1.5?
<Burgundavia> has crap trab control
<Burgundavia> yes, but I think the spec is odl
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: going to lurk in there, are you? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: for a while
<ajmitch> so how unhappy will they be if imbrandon uploads packages to feisty right before MV? ;)
<imbrandon> heheh /me plans to
<Amaranth> "This Week In Features: Non-GPL repo added to emerald-themer"
<Amaranth> *boggle*
<ajmitch> imbrandon: see how much trouble you get in
<ajmitch> Amaranth: classic
<imbrandon> Amaranth, wow
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: umm...
<imbrandon> whom from beryl is comming to mv ?
<LaserJock> what does that mean?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: quinn storm at least
<ajmitch> I don't know who else
<imbrandon> LaserJock, it means they are using windows copyrighted images and plan to host them internationaly
<elkbuntu> DBO will be there too
<ajmitch> wonderful
<Amaranth> Wow, cracktastic, they have a new animation thingy that sets your window on fire and burns it out of existence when you close it.
<Lathiat> lol
<Lathiat> thats awesome
<Lathiat> well it will be the first 3 times you do it
<Amaranth> heh
<imbrandon> [00:55]  <cyberorg> themes would be free licence, but they my infringe copyright laws of some countires
<imbrandon> [00:56]  <shawn_home> copying the look exactly? even if its not the original file?
<imbrandon> [00:56]  <cyberorg> as we are not lawyers we dont know, so all the themes that fall under 'grey' catagory would be hosted on server in norway
<imbrandon> [00:57]  <cyberorg> whoever wants them can download them
<Burgundavia> I love how the foucus is totally on features
<Lathiat> yeh thats quite obviouus
<Lathiat> i tried beryl
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: but they have the disclaimer there that 90% of it is bugfixes, you know
<Lathiat> it crashed every couple minutes
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you fracking serious?
<imbrandon> wishlist bugs for new features
<Lathiat> compiz OTOH seemed to work ok
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you know me
<Lathiat> some of the plugins went a bit nuts
<Lathiat> but generally "worked"
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: yes
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, theres a 90% chance he could be
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: very likely
<imbrandon> wishlist bugs for new features are considered bugfixes ?!?
<rmjb> hey LaserJock can you take another look at the dmraid in revu if you can?
<imbrandon> wow this is getting better by the minute
<LaserJock> rmjb: not sure if I can tonight, but I'll put it on my todo list ;-)
<rmjb> thanks
<Amaranth> Honestly I think we should focus on compiz.
<Burgundavia> so, how do we redirect that beryl to shipping default compzi?
<Amaranth> Tweak it, tune it, make it shine, ship it.
<Burgundavia> that is where everybody else is going
<ajmitch> Amaranth: so do I, but they've already invited DBO & quinn storm along...
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: convince mark
<Burgundavia> ugh
<imbrandon> the autogen.sh looks for actual package dependancys instead of just making a configure script
<whiprush> we vote you Corey.
* imbrandon dies irl 
<Burgundavia> the other thing todo is to drown the system in bug reports if we do ship beryl by default
<Amaranth> imbrandon: Holy. Shit.
<ajmitch> it'd be harder to convince him at UDS with beryl people there in the room
<Burgundavia> whiprush: I am no more successful than others
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it gets better by the minute
<imbrandon> Amaranth, my thoughts exactly
<Burgundavia> imbrandon:, Amaranth: are you guys documenting every single problem int eh package?
<Burgundavia> we are going to need a huge portfolio of problems to stop Mark
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: I'm thinking we should.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: which autogen.sh?
<whiprush> remember when all we had to worry about was naked people?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, harder, i would think it would be easier, easier to see the BS irl than on IRC or blogs
* Lathiat laughs at whiprush 
<imbrandon> ajmitch, from svn
<Lathiat> whatever happened to ubuntu-calendar
<Amaranth> I'll slap it all up on the beryl forums, get flamed to death for trying to point out problems, etc. :P
<Lathiat> it was the near-perfect excuse to have mostly naked people on your desktop
<Lathiat> "well it just comes with my distro"
<ajmitch> Amaranth: packaging issues, or upstream source issues?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: which one, there are several
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: the old naked people ones
<imbrandon> beryl-core one was where i started
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: better place is that spec
<Amaranth> ajmitch: upstream source and packaging
<ajmitch> imbrandon: beryl-core's autogen.sh looks sane
<Amaranth> ajmitch: and general project management
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it just does the standard autofoo & runs configure
<ajmitch> many autogen.sh scripts do that
<ajmitch> Amaranth: will you be at UDS to fight alongside us?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: Sadly, no.
<Amaranth> my sponsorship was declined
<LaserJock> I'll be there, but I won't be much help
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<LaserJock> yeah, that stinks
<ajmitch> so we have to document all this crack
* Amaranth has been involved in the beryl world since day 1
* ajmitch wonders what DBO does
<imbrandon> Amaranth, its all your fault ( sarcasim )
<Amaranth> hehe
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: you were declined, yet beryl is so "critical" and you wrote willow-ng?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: and you still stick in there?
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: bling outweighs all :P
<ajmitch> don't we know it
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: bling is fucking useless
<imbrandon> bling is nice when it works and is stable
<Amaranth> Yeah...
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: got any ideas for extra bling for my n-a code?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: working
<ChaosFan> i/wg 34
<Burgundavia> that is the only kind of bling that gets me off
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: yeah, having the code working is a bonus
<Amaranth> I was actually pretty surprised I got declined seeing how I'm probably closer then most of the people that were asking for sponsorship and my SoC work and such.
<whiprush> heh
<ajmitch> but beryl manages fine without that
<Burgundavia> the kind of get when it takes one click to just make it work
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: what do tickets cost?
<ajmitch> I can do it in maybe 3-4 clicks
<ajmitch> not 1 at the moment
<Amaranth> I dunno, I think it was $300 USD round trip
<ajmitch> since it doesn't autodetect the world
<ajmitch> wasabi has had some useful ideas for it
<ajmitch> maybe I can sit down with mpt in the airport & we can hack up some nice UI :)
<rmjb> I'm looking for another reviewer for dmraid in revu, if any motu can take a look and email me that'd be great
<rmjb> g'night all, time for sleep
<ajmitch> night
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: UI for beryl or for n-a?
<ajmitch> for n-a code, of course
<ajmitch> useful stuff
<ajmitch> I'm not going to waste my time working on beryl
<LaserJock> *gasp*
<ajmitch> LaserJock: having decent integration will sell a lot better in the business world than wobbly windows
<LaserJock> heck yeah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, +1
* LaserJock imagines wobbly authentication
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> fuzzy logic auth with wobbly windows for user-centric web2.0 intergration ?
<ajmitch> fuzzy logic is such an old buzzword
* LaserJock throws up
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> it should have nanotechnology in there though
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i guess i'm stuck in the 90's on buzzwords
<ajmitch> LaserJock: grid computing!
<LaserJock> I love throwing in the buzz words for grant proposals
<imbrandon> nano grid computers that generate ajax xml code on the fly for the community webspace ?
<LaserJock> chemical and biological threat agent detection via nanosensors works pretty well for me :-)
<imbrandon> s/webspace/blogsphere
* Amaranth beats his broken internet
<LaserJock> wobbly internet, it's all the rage
* Lathiat laughs
<Amaranth> Hey, anyone going to Mountain View got some space on the floor of their hotel room available? :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, did you finaly get a hotel ?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: wish I could say yes - I think there'll already be 3 in the room I'm in
<imbrandon> Amaranth, i wouldent mind but i dunno whom i'm with
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I think so
<ajmitch> we'll see how good it is
<imbrandon> i guess it wont be decided till we get there
<imbrandon> i dunno for sure tbh
<Amaranth> Unless you want to be more than 10mi away all the hotels are either expensive or bad looking
* ajmitch will probably be in a bad-looking hotel then
<LaserJock> for Paris they sent room assignments like a week ahead
<Amaranth> This is just going by pictures
* imbrandon looks at the name of the hotel
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the one you're at is 10 miles away :)
<imbrandon> http://www.wildpalmshotel.com
<imbrandon> seems to be the one i'm at
<LaserJock> yeah, I can't believe it is so far away
<LaserJock> although that area is mostly residential
<Amaranth> 4.93 mi
<Amaranth> according to expedia
<ajmitch> whiprush: what was the hotel you found?
<Amaranth> $102.47/night for 1 person :P
<Amaranth> and they room "package" is called "WiFi King Room", that worries me for some reason
<imbrandon> lol
<Amaranth> their own website says $69/night for that room
<LaserJock> well, keep in mind that all of Mountain View has wifi ;-)
<Amaranth> no doubt
<ajmitch> except the hotel you're in
<Amaranth> lmao
<ajmitch> which is well outside the MV coverage area
<imbrandon> ouch
<Amaranth> how is that?
<imbrandon> dont say that
<Amaranth> it's 5 miles away from google
<ajmitch> the wild palms hotel is in sunnyvale, not MV
<Amaranth> oh, ouch
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but if you stay in MV it's free internet, wahoo
<imbrandon> but in the evenings at the room no internet ? that gonna bite
<LaserJock> why no internet?
<LaserJock> does it say that?
<imbrandon> sunnyvale != MV
<LaserJock> sure, but the hotel probably has internet
<imbrandon> it says there internet in the business center ( e.g a room with 3 computers ) says nothing about in room access or wifi
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon> http://www.jdvhospitality.com/hotels/services/20
<ajmitch> sabdfl might sort out something
<LaserJock> even Paris had internet
<Amaranth> the room itself is advertised as "WiFi King"
<Amaranth> so it'd better have wifi :P
<LaserJock> Amaranth: no that short for Wide Filters, for the coffee pot ;-)
<Amaranth> hehe
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> ahh well i guess it does say : Deluxe guestrooms feature all of the above and high speed Internet access
<ajmitch> but at what cost?
<imbrandon> right, thats what i was thinking
<ajmitch> I suppose it's not NZ
<ajmitch> so it won't be horrendously expensive
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> in Paris it was something like $15/night
<LaserJock> but we got it for free
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if Mark paid for it or what
<imbrandon> probably
<imbrandon> just got included with the group discount
<imbrandon> i'm sure
<ajmitch> E: libvirt_0.1.8-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> we'll need to update lintian soon
<imbrandon> yea not 3/4 the way through the cycle like edgy
<imbrandon> ( on tiber )
* ajmitch waits for package to build again
<LaserJock> tiber still does it for edgy doesn't it?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, probably
<imbrandon> havent checked in a while
<LaserJock> we just got to Dapper
<ajmitch> so who plans to upgrade to feisty as soon as it opens & ride out the syncs?
<imbrandon> i'll try it on one computer, always do
<LaserJock> I always say no, but that only lasts for a while
<imbrandon> just not a prodution box
<LaserJock> I was planning on skipping edgy
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> but well, it's hard to test things if you don't
<Amaranth> I tend to switch as soon as the build chain stuff gets somewhat settle (new libc, gcc, etc)
<minghua> If I get my laptop set up, I'll follow feisty
<imbrandon> i dunno if my laptop will be able to follow feisty, theres a spec to drop ppc support :(
* imbrandon dosent see it happening though , not till feisty+1
<LaserJock> yeah, that would be a little harsh
<LaserJock> ppc has been gone less then a year
<LaserJock> from Apple
<imbrandon> yea i see it happening , just not /this/ round
<imbrandon> unless someone else like ibm pumps out desktop ppc machines
<imbrandon> not just servers
<Amaranth> i can't see an "enterprise" distro that offers a server version dropping ppc ever
<Amaranth> IBM makes some kickass POWER5 servers, no?
<imbrandon> but thats not gonna happen, we'll drop ppc in feisty+1 and pickup cell in feisty+2
<imbrandon> Amaranth, yea the server deritive, i'm talking ubuntu
<imbrandon> the desktop distro
<Fujitsu> cell?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we have a server version though
<LaserJock> also sparc
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea but its a derivative just like kubuntu, like edubuntu chooses not to make a livecd, deritives can do as they wish
<imbrandon> kubuntu /could/ go dvd only etc
<imbrandon> ( not that it will )
<imbrandon> ubuntu-server will keep ppc becouse of ibm
<imbrandon> but there is no desktop ppc's anymore
<LaserJock> yeah, but you can't just remove ppc support from the archives if ubuntu-server still uses it
<LaserJock> you can't separate desktop and server in the repos very well
<imbrandon> LaserJock, right, but canonical dosent have to support it
<imbrandon> kinda like hppa and sparc build
<LaserJock> who cares about canonical :-)
<imbrandon> i'm not saying it would get droped from the repos
<LaserJock> I can't imagine Ubuntu dropping ppc from the archives any time in the near future
<imbrandon> but it could very well move to unsupported
<ajmitch> it would just get demoted to ports status
<imbrandon> like sparc and hppa
<LaserJock> ah well, that makes sense
<ajmitch> like ia64, etc
<Burgundavia> you know, https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/bullet-proof-x and https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/beryl-by-default are mutually exclusive states
<imbrandon> right exactly
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sparc is official for the server
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
<LaserJock> I don't really think of supported as == Canonical support
<LaserJock> I think of it as Ubuntu support
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea and ppc would likely stay offical on the server also but not on the desktop
<Lathiat> hrm mark regd the beryl by default spec
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: not necessarily
<Lathiat> i see what all the fuss is about
<ajmitch> Lathiat: exactly
<imbrandon> Lathiat, yea
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: one is for the X server to always come up
<imbrandon> so basicly all the devs will have to show him why not
<Fujitsu> Beryl... by default!?
<LaserJock> why don't we just make Mark be the assignee :-)
<Fujitsu> Erm, this is one thing that nobody is going to agree with Mark on...
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, we've been lamenting that for hours now
<Fujitsu> I didn't know it was him that registered that spec.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you missed about 3 hours of convo
<Fujitsu> I presumed it was just some random person who walked out of nowhere.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: if it were someone else, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much
<Fujitsu> Of course!
<ajmitch> we could just laugh them off
<ajmitch> in a nice, CoC-compliant way
<Lathiat> i mean in an ideal world thatd be great
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i mean more it move to the ia64 or hppa status , not "removed" from the repos
<Fujitsu> (and I may have taken ages about it, but I did finally get my encrypted /home/fujitsu going)
<Lathiat> but i dont see beryl anywhere near default-making :\
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I could see that
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, hppa never actually appeared in the Edgy repos, so that's not really a good example.
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: Sure it is. It'll make Ubuntu more stable than ever!
<LaserJock> like how 2 negatives make a positive :-)
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, you mean beryl isnt bullet-proof ?!?
<imbrandon> </sarcasim>
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: like butch cassidy and the sundance kid
<ajmitch> imbrandon: now now, you're sounding as bitter as I do
* Fujitsu watches sabdfl put Burgundavia to trial for treason.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hehe
* LaserJock hands imbrandon a dictionary
<LaserJock> </sarcasm>
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you have anything you need off horatio, i think i'm going to pull it down for ~24 hours for some network rearraging
* ajmitch recompiles libvirt for the Nth time
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I've not been using it much lately (school stuff is taking priority), and I don't need anything off it.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: whatchya doing with it?
<imbrandon> kk
<Fujitsu> (and who is the `We' Mark refers to in that spec? I don't see anybody else official clamouring for it.)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: creating a package
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: royal
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, probably.
<imbrandon> zomg
<imbrandon> spam subject of the day: "Beliefnet: Motivation from Mr. T"
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: rocking
<ajmitch> silly me, that's why it's not calling dh_pycentral
<ajmitch> no distutils magic
* ajmitch rebuilds
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I pity the fool that uses Mr. T for spam ;-)
<imbrandon> i want a new mac book pro, i think i'm gonna sell my lappy after MTV and get a new one
<imbrandon> if possible
<ajmitch> imbrandon: buy me a laptop too, will you?
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I'd be stuck with a mac book
<LaserJock> I'm no pro :(
<imbrandon> hehe well even a mac book, something faster than 1.5ghz
<imbrandon> and a tad more ram
<imbrandon> and i'd be happy
* ajmitch doesn't *need* a new laptop
<ajmitch> but a new one would be nice :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I need one
<LaserJock> my wife is going to want this one back one of these days
<imbrandon> hehe
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I just realized, you really should be in bed
<imbrandon> heh not for another few hours
<dholbach> hi ajmitch, imbrandon, LaserJock - how's it going?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<LaserJock> dholbach: gut, und du?
<dholbach> LaserJock: haha - I'm fine... just need to wake up 100% :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> -devel
<LaserJock> what?
<Fujitsu> Lathiat: it is GREAT!
<imbrandon> [02:49]  <Administrator> 2.6.18 is already out, when will this be uploaded to edgy?
<imbrandon> [02:49]  <fabbione> edgy is about to be released in 4 days.. there will be no .18
<imbrandon> [02:50]  <Administrator> you guys releasing edgy while people have kernel panics?
<Fujitsu> [17:51:59]  <Administrator> I need to deliver 500 pc running edgy
<Fujitsu> [17:52:09]  <tfheen> Administrator: now, please let us concentrate on the release.  There will be no changes to the kernel in edgy.
<Fujitsu> [17:52:10]  <Administrator> they all have via chipsets
<imbrandon> joejaxx, you know kernel freeze was quite a while back ( and if your delivering 500pc's ) i would sugest a LTS release like dapper
<Fujitsu> ... what's this got to do with him?
<imbrandon> joejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks
<Lathiat> 15:52 -!- Administrator [n=Administ@81.58.38.138]  has quit ["Leaving"] 
<Lathiat> wouldnt hav ethought so?
* Lathiat shrugs
<ajmitch> oh well
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, how do you know?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, i was arround when he registered administrator, i have talked to him for montns about fluxbuntu
<Lathiat> well hes back
<Lathiat> if you want to reissue the comment
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, you realise that a lot of people use Windows? And Administrator is a default username there?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yes, but joejaxx owns the nick afaik
<imbrandon> thus i figured it was him
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, him owning it proves what? Administrator wasn't identified...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not a damn thing, i said figured
<imbrandon> not know for sure
<imbrandon> you asked how i knew i told you
<imbrandon> whats with the 3rd degree
<imbrandon> ?
* elkbuntu gets the buckets of cold water ready.
<gnomefreak> he is on joejaxx atm
<imbrandon> jez man
<Fujitsu> <imbrandon> joejaxx == administrator , diffrent nicks
<Fujitsu> That's pretty definitive!
* Fujitsu runs away now.
<imbrandon> yes Fujitsu joejaxx owns that nick
* elkbuntu ensures Fujitsu is followed by a bucket of cold water.
<imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-            Nickname: administrator
<imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-          Registered: 8 weeks 3 days (4h 2m 58s) ago
<imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-           Last Seen: 1 week 6 days (10h 22m 44s) ago (joejaxx is online)
<imbrandon> [02:58]  [Notice]  -NickServ-   Last Seen Address: i=joejaxx@ubuntu/member/joejaxx
<minghua> calm down, guys
<imbrandon> i'm fine, i just dident see the third degree, about "how i knew" hehe
<LaserJock> what is the technical description of what a md5sum is?
<minghua> LaserJock: RFC 1321 (as said in md5sum(1) man page)?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: you mean a secure data hashing algorithm?
<imbrandon> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1321.html
<LaserJock> ok, maybe "technical" wasn't the right term :-)
<Fujitsu> The proper term?
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm
<imbrandon> #5
<LaserJock> ok, how about, what is the description
<imbrandon> The
<imbrandon>    algorithm takes as input a message of arbitrary length and produces
<imbrandon>    as output a 128-bit "fingerprint" or "message digest" of the input.
<LaserJock> I know md5sum and sha1sums look at checksums, but I'm not sure what that means
<imbrandon> that what you wanted?
<LaserJock> not really, but sorta :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i'm just quoting the url from above
* imbrandon steals elkbuntu's bucket of water and pours its on Fujitsu , preemtive strike !?!
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, heh. a slow one at that
<imbrandon> just a little
* LaserJock grabs some Yucca Mountain nuclear waste and lobs it towards KC ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
* Fujitsu runs away.
* Fujitsu throws Windows CDs at imbrandon.
<imbrandon> arg
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that's pretty low :-)
<Fujitsu> Ah, but they're PIRATED Windows CDs, which is integral to the next part of my plan.
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, he didnt specify version
<imbrandon> i'll just add them to the AOL cd collection
* Fujitsu rings 1-800-PIRACY, or whatever that 1800 number for Microsoft Piracy is in the US, and reports imbrandon.
<LaserJock> elkbuntu: true
<Fujitsu> You're stuffed now!
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> they make good christmass tree ornaments , but thats probably against the EULA
<imbrandon> 1-800-r-u-legit
<Fujitsu> That could be it.
<Fujitsu> I have a Windows 95 Certificate of Authenticity around here somewhere...
<Fujitsu> Ah!
<imbrandon> MS promoting good spelling
<Fujitsu> VB4 one... that should have it.
<LaserJock> "By using this CD as a festive holiday decoration device you are agreeing to our EULA which in short requires you to hand over any future derivative decoration devices"
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahahaha
<imbrandon> probably one about not whiskey tumbler coasters too in the EULA
<imbrandon> ( you may not buy stuff on ebay while intoxicated )
<LaserJock> "By using this CD as a alcoholic beverage spill protection device you agree to transfer the copyright to any creative work you create while drinking said beverage."
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> darn, I should work for the MS legal department
<LaserJock> what a waste
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: you really shoudl.
<Fujitsu> *should
<LaserJock> nah, I think chemistry is better for my health and conscience
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> although the redmond campus is in a rather nice area
<LaserJock> hmm, that's weird. I just realized I have relatives that live almost walking distance from Google, MS, and Adobe
<imbrandon> lol
<phanatic> morning
<LaserJock> good thing I'm here to warn them when the FLOSS stampede begins :-)
<imbrandon> moins
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha
<imbrandon> 3 more hours till i can crank amarok ( everyone is asleep )
<imbrandon> how do you die temporarly ?
<imbrandon> [03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon died, temporarily... This terrible calamity has slowed them 0 days, 01:26:30 from level 46.
<imbrandon> [03:21]  <NewdleBot> imbrandon reaches next level in 1 day, 01:28:12.
<LaserJock> well, you see, you are just mostly dead
* LaserJock gets out the bellows
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I think I'll have to start a scripting language based on The Princess Bride
* Lathiat laughs
<LaserJock> ah, and instead of pointer I'd have pits of despair
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha http://www.boingboing.net/2006/10/22/pot_grown_in_a_pc.html , do they have meth lab case mods in reno ? hehehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, not unless they come out with a lowrider version of that case ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> with big rims
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that would make an interesting science fair entry :-)
<LaserJock> "Technology in the Everyday Life"
<imbrandon> hehe
<minghua> we have an angry speex upstream maintainer
<LaserJock> yeah, I just read that
<imbrandon> yea i read that too, if its just a patch might be good for SRU
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: the speex binary is in Universe according to madison
<Lathiat> SRU/
<LaserJock> Stable Release Update
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: the source is in main.
<Fujitsu> And the source is what matters, is it not?
<LaserJock> maybe, maybe not
<LaserJock> I guess
<Lathiat> its a little dependant
<Lathiat> generally yes that matters
<Fujitsu> I find it rather silly that there is that split, 'cause we can't do a thing about it if the source is in main.
<Fujitsu> And core-devs are unlikely to touch universe stuff...
<Fujitsu> So speex is stuffed.
<Lathiat> well a motu could co-ordinate with a core-dev
<Lathiat> and get it fixed
<imbrandon> yea source is what matters as far as uploadability but if the patch only affect universe binary then
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, if you wanna to check the pacth and stuff i'll be the core-dev part for an SRU
<imbrandon> i havent done one yet, good time to learn
<Fujitsu> I've got no AMD64 to test on (this problem just keeps coming up :(), so I'm not very useful for it.
<Lathiat> i can test tonight for you
<Lathiat> in a few hours
<Lathiat> unless someone else can beforehand
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, give me 2 minutes i can give you access to a amd64
<Fujitsu> I think if it's in upstream and fixes the issue in Edgy, it should be good enough.
<Lathiat> .. or that. :)
<LaserJock> siretart must be lurking :-)
<Fujitsu> Thanks, imbrando.
<Fujitsu> *imbrandon
* minghua just added a comment and replied the mail
<siretart> mh?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, done check query
<LaserJock> siretart: I just noticed that you replied to the speex email so I figured you were up :-)
<imbrandon> siretart, tag looks good to me ( unless you just really want a reply to the mail for a +1 from peeps )
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch does not like angering upstreams
<ajmitch> LaserJock: where was the email?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea , its not good, i just gave fujitsu access on my amd64 so he can play with it and get it ready for SRU and me / you / someone can push the upload once approved since its in main ( source )
<ajmitch> yeah, I saw that earlier today
<imbrandon> ajmitch, the -motu list
* Fujitsu curses those silly packages with binaries in both universe and main.
<ajmitch> ah
<imbrandon> where was debconf6 ?
<LaserJock> Mexico
<imbrandon> they have internet in mexico ?
* imbrandon ducks
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I remember hearing lots of complaints when it was going on
<imbrandon> oh there really isnt ? i was half jokin
<LaserJock> something about stringing cables all over the roofs of buildings
<imbrandon> hahah i wouldent doubt it
<imbrandon> ever been to rural mexico ( that is most of it ) ?
<imbrandon> its nuts
<LaserJock> I remember seeing "houses" that were 4 sticks with some tin on top across the street from the largest Dodge dealership I'd ever seen
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> hum is there software in the default install that will let me go from dvd (non-commercial not talking warez stuff) to mpeg/ogg/or some other great format
<imbrandon> or maybe in universe ?
<LaserJock> dvdrip?
<LaserJock> UbuntuWorld 2007 ?
<imbrandon> where do you see that ?
<phanatic> imbrandon: mark's blog
<LaserJock> planet
<ajmitch> oh my
<phanatic> we're just about to have something like that this weekend (you may call UbuntuHungary 2006) :)
<imbrandon> rockin, UbuntuWorld 2007 would be awesom i think, like an "official" Ubucon or DebconfX
<ajmitch> imbrandon: shame that most of us won't get to it :)
<imbrandon> well i would think it would change cities like debconf
<imbrandon> but yea
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well there is going to be Ubucon twice a year
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> ubucon 2 times a year ?
<imbrandon> at googleplex ?
<ajmitch> living in NZ does suck sometimes :)
<imbrandon> being broke does too no matter where you live ( talking about me )
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> oh well
<imbrandon> kids never get married early
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> us developers can moan together in solidarity ;)
<imbrandon> divorce is expensive
<ajmitch> I don't plan to do it
<imbrandon> i dident plan to get divorced either, but in my case you can only over look a memory problem so much ( she would leave the house and forgot she was married )
* imbrandon stops
<sivang> morning all
<imbrandon> heya sivang
<ajmitch> hi sivang
<phanatic> morning sivang
<LaserJock> imbrandon: 1 at google, the other in New Your I believe
<sivang> ajmitch: ubunutworld , oh my indeed :)
<sivang> hi ajmitch , phanatic , imbrandon
<sivang> LaserJock: twice a year? where do you get all this insider's info? :)
<Admiral_Chicago> thats a first that i've ever seen
<LaserJock> sivang: I'm talking about Ubucon
<phanatic> LaserJock: there's UDS, there will be UbuntuWorld. and now Ubucon? :)
<LaserJock> Ubucon was before UbuntuWorld :-)
<LaserJock> and it was at Google before UDS was so....
<Admiral_Chicago> he's back
<imbrandon> ubucon has already been happening, and UDS isnt user and company centric
<ajmitch> UDS was before them all
<phanatic> LaserJock: oh, right, sorry :)
<phanatic> i remember now
<ajmitch> Admiral_Chicago: ?
<Admiral_Chicago> ajmitch: ubotu quit and rejoined
<Admiral_Chicago> err nevermind
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm really tired and can't read
<Admiral_Chicago> bedtime
<ajmitch> heh, night
<Admiral_Chicago> http://chi.ubuntu-us.org/
<Admiral_Chicago> some of you may want to take the poll on the page
<Admiral_Chicago> it's about the new art
<imbrandon> is xvid a "free" codec ?
<Plug> it's open source, but I think it has licensing issues
<Plug> as it's an MPEG-4 derivative
<imbrandon> hum i'm trying to rip some of my dvds into totaly free formats
<Fujitsu> Theora!
<imbrandon> i dont see theroa on the list
<imbrandon> ;(
<Fujitsu> Write in Theora+Vorbis support, then!
* Fujitsu ducks.
<imbrandon> yea , right on , lol
<imbrandon> Fujitsu,  http://federation.imbrandon.com/ss112.png
<imbrandon> err 113
<imbrandon> see my list of choices
* Fujitsu dies of heart-attack... There's a page on help.ubuntu.com about the wxMaxima issue... It recommends to compile it manually and use.... c9l
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: special..
<imbrandon> see any of those that are "free" totaly ?
<Fujitsu> How can people recommend such a thing!?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, 112 looks like it's the right one... But I can't see anything free there (not sure about the last three, though)
<minghua> oh, checkinstall is forbidden to be spoken now?
<imbrandon> minghua, yes alien , checkinstall and umm what was the third ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Was there one?
<Fujitsu> Was it RPM?
<imbrandon> yea i had 3 , no not rpm
<imbrandon> hrm
<minghua> but c9l is really not easy to understand....  I was thinking of another lisp compiler
<minghua> imbrandon: automatix?
<imbrandon> thats possibly #4
<Fujitsu> minghua: it's just too dirty to say it in full.
<Fujitsu> Automatix is also pretty much forbidden, yes.
<Fujitsu> EasyUbuntu is somewhat better
<imbrandon> not alot imho , it should be easy just to DO
<Fujitsu> True.
<imbrandon> but alas the real world bites again
<imbrandon> welp i guess xvid is as good as any for now
<sivang> ah, LaserJoc referred to the ubuntu user con that was in google
<sivang> *LaserJock
<AnAnt> what should I do if I asked a question on #ubuntu+1 & ubuntu-users mailing list several days ago, yet got no answer ?
<imbrandon> forums, prod friends , depending on the issue umm open a support ticket
<AnAnt> imbrandon: what's the support ticket ? on LP
<AnAnt> >
<AnAnt> ?
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> yes
<ajmitch> AnAnt: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets
<AnAnt> thanks
<Plug> if a build (dpkg-buildpackage) stops at something like dh_installdocs, can I rerun without it doing the clean & therefore recompiling?
<ajmitch> dbpkg-buildpackage -nc
<ajmitch> ignore the typo, you'll know what I mean
<Plug> aha!  thanks, i wish I'd known about that years ago :)
<ajmitch> :)
<sivang>        -nc    Do not clean the source tree(implies -b).
<sivang> Plug: ^^^
<Plug> sivang: cheers too
* sivang hugs Plug 
* ajmitch wonders why bug 67720 is filed against wine
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67720 in wine "Cannot install wireless driver in newer edgy version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67720
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: why not?
<imbrandon> becouse they wanna install the windows drivers ? hehehe
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: because it obviously isn't related to wine? :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: from a tar.gz?
<Fujitsu> wireless' first 4 letters are close enough to wine, so it's a wine bug.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i dunno lol
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: given his spelling in the bugreport, it wouldn't surprise me..
<pirast> StevenK, any idea what is wrong with the build of enigmail-locales?
<StevenK> pirast: Um, no, but only because I haven't had a chance to look yet.
<pirast> StevenK, okay. But you did upload everything, right? It is not just a debdiff that has to be uploaded
<pirast> StevenK, would be nice when you have a look at that later
<StevenK> pirast: According to Launchpad, it's in the archive.
<StevenK> Current release:  0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1
<StevenK> Creator: Martin Jrgens
<pirast> StevenK,but the builds page at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/enigmail-locales/+builds?build_state=all says it was not build
<StevenK> i386 build of enigmail-locales 0.9x-20061010-1ubuntu1 in ubuntu edgy RELEASE
<StevenK> Status: 	Successfully built
<StevenK> Anything else you'd me to disprove? :-
<StevenK> :-P
<pirast> SteveK, lol!
<pirast> StevenK, I dont know why, but I always saw the version without ubuntu there :-)
<pirast> StevenK, okay.. it was built today :-)
<pirast> But I wonder why it took so long to build :-)
<pirast> StevenK, thanks :-)
<StevenK> pirast: Probably because it was sitting in the unapproved queue.
<Fujitsu> pirast: it was only approved less than an hour ago.
<StevenK> pirast: Since we are so close to release, all uploads have to be approved manually.
<pirast> k.. thanks :-)
<Fujitsu> OK, almost 2 hours ago, but still.
<pirast> wargh, I am so happy to have this in Edgy.. It took me some time to fix the issue :-)
<pirast> I am somewhat happy..
<pirast> enigmail bug fixed
<pirast> ooo copy and paste bug gets fixed before of the edgy release
<pirast> firefox rss bug gets fixed before the edgy release :-)
* StevenK notes the pusle for his local mirror is going to be large tonight.
<Fujitsu> pusle?
<StevenK> Um. pulse
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: what pulse?
<Q-FUNK> what's gonna be so big?
<pirast> Q-FUNK I think it will probably be the firefox 2 d/ls ;-)
* StevenK nods.
<Q-FUNK> ony tomorrow, though, not tonight?
<StevenK> It might be tonight.
<ajmitch> yay, end of the month
<ajmitch> (for ISP billing)
<ajmitch> so I can start downloading RC images for testing
<sivang> heh
<pirast> sivang, hi
<sivang> hey pirast
<sivang> pirast: I wanted to ask you if have any idea bout mod-mono
<ajmitch> sivang: it's well known
<sivang> it seems like the borken dependency list is deep deep :)
<ajmitch> apache-dev & apache2-dev can't be installed together
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, well, with this list of broken stuff no wonder :)
<ajmitch> nothing we can do immediately to fix that
<ajmitch> due to differing libdb4.3-dev & libdb4.4-dev
<sivang> differing from sid ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> apache & apache2 use different libdb versions, they need to use the same
<sivang> why can't we have two versions of libdb ?
<ajmitch> because they have the same files
<sivang> ah
<sivang> bad
<StevenK> Because the symbols weren't versioned, either.
<ajmitch> it's an old old problem
<ajmitch> infinity was going to look at it if he got time, being an apache maintainer
<sivang> I see
<sivang> StevenK: versioned symbols ?
<ajmitch> sivang: magical fun
* StevenK nods.
<sivang> hmm
<sivang> you mean, versioning the exported symbols from a binary?
<sivang> oh dear
<ajmitch> instead of a library wide version, symbols in libraries can get versions as well
<sivang> specific to GCC, or IEEE sandard stuff?
<StevenK> It's an ELF-ism
<sivang> I see
* StevenK notes himself and ajmitch are probably teaching sivang stuff he didn't want to know about ELF. :-P
<imbrandon> and me ;) ( the dident know part )
<sivang> StevenK, ajmitch : indeed. I feel so betrayed
<StevenK> Heh
<sivang> ;)
<sivang> just when I thought that at least at that level things can stay off-magic
<sivang> anyway, gotta run, see you all alters dude
<sivang> s
<StevenK> No, no, they get more magical.
<sivang> StevenK: well, yeah, but versioned symbols? /me wonders how would the debian lib packaging guide would look trying to explain them.
<StevenK> It doesn't need to.
<sivang> how does lib packaging can relate to versioned symbols?
<sivang> (give problem might arise if neglecting where the situation is right)
<StevenK> Versioned symbols are only needed if you want multiple versions of the library to co-exist and be loaded at the same time in the same symbol table.
<StevenK> And maybe not even then.
<StevenK> See, it's magical.
<sivang> StevenK: hehe, btw,what sane use case could be for that?
<sivang> (especially: in the *same* symbold table)
<StevenK> sivang: Most of them *aren't* sane, that's the point. ;-)
<thom> sivang: your binary loads two extension modules. one is linked to foo1.2, and one is linked to foo2.0
<StevenK> To be honest, it's something you want to avoid.
* bhale bets php might be a culprit for that
<sivang> bhale: I would think ;-p
<sivang> thom: nice
* sivang notes this in the "things I never really wanted to know" list
* StevenK chuckles.
<ajmitch> I'm sure keybuk could tell you even more details
<sivang> yes, his the master of the dirty details ;-)
<sivang> anyway fells, I need to run now. laters all!
<ajmitch> given that he maintained libtool at some point, iirc
<ajmitch> bye
* ajmitch had better go & sleep or something
<thom> StevenK: libdb _does_ have versioned symbols
<thom> it's one of the oldest things in the archive that does
<StevenK> Oh.
* StevenK must have remembered wrongly.
<thom> but you still can't install two sets of its dev headers together
<pirast> sivang, no i  dont have any..
<zul> wth is vegemite?
<StevenK> An Australian spread made from yeast.
<zul> ah ok..
<StevenK> Apparently, now illegal to import into America.
<zul> yeah i been reading jdub's blog
<zul> aussie's in america are welcome to canada i dont think we have banned it (yet)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<rmjb> Morning guys
<rmjb> hey, I uploaded my first package to revu, but I didn't get an email with an initial password. How long does that take?
<rmjb> ah, no probs I saw how I get it
<sivang> re
<superm1> ping  dholbach
<dholbach> superm1: pong
<superm1> hey dholbach, i saw that you reassigned the uvfe i filed for autoprofile to me
<superm1> should it be-reassigned to me since i can't sync it personally?
<dholbach> superm1: you can take care of the next steps, ubuntu-universe-sponsors and the like
<dholbach> it's not in 'motu-uvf' s hands anymore
<superm1> Ah i see.
<superm1> very well
<Jozo-> dholbach: What should I do with bug 66507 and gnunet (0.7.0e-2ubuntu2)?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66507 in gnunet "[DEBDIFF]  gnunet: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66507
<dholbach> Jozo-: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html
<_MMA_> Hello guys. How do I find out if a package already has a maintainer? ie: theres packages for Somasuite I want to get into Feisty.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: check if it's in edgy, REVU, or Debian
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<sivang> Fesity is open already ?
* sivang faints
<sivang> *Feisty
<_MMA_> As far as Edgy goes theres 3 of like 10 packages there. Im not sure how to check the others.
<_MMA_> sivang: Im just planning ahead. ;)
<LaserJock> _MMA_: for REVU, revu.tauware.de
<_MMA_> Ok.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: for Debian, try packages.debian.org
<sivang> Burgwork: Hey corey
<Burgwork> hey sivang
<_MMA_> LaserJock: It looks like the packages Ubuntu has are the same as Debian-Unstable. And its just Somaplayer. Im trying to get the entire suite in.
<superm1> _MMA_, if thats the case, you can assemble a package for the rest of the suite and upload it to revu for the wonderful MOTU's here to look at
<superm1> once Feisty repos open up and they approve your package, it can be added to universe for feisty
<_MMA_> Ok. Thank you for the info.
<superm1> _MMA_, if you haven't packaged before at all, take a look at the ubuntu packaging guide to get started, https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<_MMA_> I plan on looking into that. For right Im just managing a team of people. We have someone who wants to package so Ill also send them the link. Thank you.
<poningru> where can I find the changelogs for packages?
<poningru> not in my comp
<poningru> but online
<LaserJock> changelogs.ubuntu.com
<poningru> that seems to only have stable's packages
<poningru> i.e dapper
<poningru> or not
<poningru> nm
<poningru> thanks
<superm1> on packages.ubuntu.com, you can search for edgy packages.  there is a link for each source packages's changelog too
<LaserJock> superm1: does that work?
<lophyte> superm1: doesn't look like my myth box is coming.. been almost 2 weeks
<poningru> woot much better thanks
<superm1> LaserJock, yea it does.
<superm1> Thats how i have grabbed source packages when i didn't have access to apt, and i've looked at changelogs there too
<LaserJock> superm1: seemed like i was linking to the wrong place for a while
<superm1> lophyte, you need to find some more reliable friends :)
<LaserJock> s/i/it/
<superm1> LaserJock, very possible it is doing that for specific packages still, i've only looked a few times
<superm1> LaserJock, but it also takes some time before the updated changelogs get put there from what i've noticed
<superm1> LaserJock, example: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/m/mythtv/mythtv_0.20-0.2ubuntu2/changelog is obtained from http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/graphics/mythtv  And points to the right changelog, but that didn't pop up for at least a day after the last debdiff was uploaded
<LaserJock> k
<sivang> slomo_: do you happen to the package name of the real media video codec?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: so someone is prentending to be me again
<joejaxx> i need to talk to Freenode about that
<superm1> LaserJock, are you going up to UDS?
<LaserJock> yes
<superm1> could you possibly look over a spec i put together and attend the meeting the day its talked about?  I won't be able to take off of work to make it up. https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-module-assistant
<LaserJock> probably not :/
<LaserJock> I'm not going to be there the whole time
<superm1> oh
<LaserJock> and there are probably better people
<superm1> well could you at least look it over and make any recommendations on it?
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> wahoo, wget +html2text = easy LP parsing
<LaserJock> lucas: you here?
<lucas> yes
<LaserJock> lucas: what do you use to parse Debian and LP for bugs in MDT?
<lucas> Debian: the data is available on qa.debian.org
<lucas> LP: +bugs-text
<lucas> (which really sucks, but there's no better solution)
<slomo_> sivang: what exactly do you mean? package name? or really codec name?
<sivang> slomo_: well, package name. I was unable to find one. Do we have one at all?
<slomo_> sivang: probably in the realplayer package... no idea... just don't use it ;)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: is the firefox icon supposed to be used in Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> well, that's sort of up in the air right now
<LaserJock> although it looks to me like we are going to keep it
<joejaxx> oh ok i was just wondering since it appeared with the dist-upgrade
<LaserJock> yes, that's the way it is in Edgy
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> before with rc it was still the earth icon
<joejaxx> which version is this then?
<joejaxx> since i had to dist-upgrade from rc?
<joejaxx> stable?
<LaserJock> what version is what?
<joejaxx> well what developmental version of ubuntu is this dist-upgrade
<joejaxx> since i had RC
<_MMA_> Laserjock: Can you tell us why Ubuntu can use it now or point me to some info?
<joejaxx> and it wanted me to dist-upgrade
<LaserJock> joejaxx: it'd edgy
<LaserJock> *it's
<joejaxx> ah
<joejaxx> so stable :D
<joejaxx> or final
<joejaxx> nice
<LaserJock> no
<joejaxx> no?
<LaserJock> it'd just edgy
<LaserJock> grr, can't type s's today
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but i had Edgy RC before
<LaserJock> joejaxx: you are running Edgy, right?
<joejaxx> yes
<zul> LaserJock: its the key by the f
<LaserJock> joejaxx: so when you run apt-get dist-upgrade you are just updating edgy
<LaserJock> zul: yeah, yeah, but "d" is so much more convenient
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well it was actually from the update-manager
<zul> LaserJock: lol
<LaserJock> joejaxx: fine
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the reason i was asking
<LaserJock> joejaxx: but as long as you don't change your sources.list you are running edgy
<joejaxx> is because it told me there was a distibution upgrade normal it jut says it has found these updates
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, Edgy is basically frozen and mdz has been talking with Mozilla. You can get more info on the ubuntu-devel mailing list
<superm1> particularly http://archives.free.net.ph/thread/20061023.181921.4ea4c7b4.en.html if anyone wanted to read what LaserJock was referring to
<LaserJock> anybody know how you can read  file line by line in a shell script
<Jozo-> read?
<LaserJock> well, I want to loop over the lines in a file
<LaserJock> but each line has 2 columns
<Gloubiboulga> evening
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, hello!
<LaserJock> so if I just do a for line in `cat $file` it splits each line up
<LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, could you confirm that bug 58481 is fixed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58481 in scilab "scilab+ubuntu dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58481
<Gloubiboulga> ha, it's a dapper bug
<LaserJock> it's not fixed in Dapper
<LaserJock> but in Edgy it is
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do about it
<LaserJock> I don't think there really is anything we can do
<Gloubiboulga> I've just received a mail from a scilab dev, proposing a patch (which is in edgy)
<Burgwork> LaserJock: prepare a dapper-updates
<LaserJock> Burgwork: it's a major new upstream version change
<Gloubiboulga> can't we backport scilab 4.0 in dapper?
<ajmitch> morning all
<Burgwork> Gloubiboulga: backports are not enabled by default
<Burgwork> LaserJock: but there must be a smaller patch
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: did the dev propose a patch for the Dapper version?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: probably but I doubt I have time to hunt it down
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, no, it's the patch comming from debian, ie removing the gtk support
<Gloubiboulga> in 4.0
<LaserJock> ugg
<LaserJock> I hate doing stable release updates
<LaserJock> especially since Dapper is a mess
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: do you think you can track down a specific patch to fix this?
<LaserJock> either by asking Debian or the scilab devs?
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, it's a GTK bug
<LaserJock> so we have to get rid of GTK?
<LaserJock> or can be just apply a patch?
<Gloubiboulga> or we can fix it :)
<Gloubiboulga> well, the scilab dev told me that the gtk version is not supported
<LaserJock> well, whatever works :-)
<Gloubiboulga> so they won't work on it, and I'm not sure I'll be able to fix the bug
<LaserJock> yeah, nothing like having some of the most popular math/science software completely broken
<LaserJock> I really wish they hadn't called Dapper an LTS release
<Gloubiboulga> a rebuild without the gtk support for dapper-updates is certainly the easiest solution IMO
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, if scilab is broken, an update is not a big risk :)
<LaserJock> yes, but it still has to go through all the processes
<LaserJock> we've been working on gcl/maxima for weeks now
<LaserJock> the amount of "completely broken" apps keeps getting bigger
<Gloubiboulga> right
<LaserJock> anyway, if a rebuild without gtk works then I say we do a SRU
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I'm answering to the Scilab dev, I can CC you maybe?
<LaserJock> sure
<giskard> hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hello
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, I'll try the new build tomorrow, it's time to go to bed for me
<LaserJock> good night
<Gloubiboulga> thanks
<Cale> Does anyone know anything about the status of a GHC 6.6 package for ubuntu?
<Cale> slomo_: perhaps you'd know?
<Nafallo> Cale: you probably ment sistpoty rather than slomo
<Cale> Nafallo: yeah, slomo_ is also mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/UncommonProgrammingLanguages/Haskell
<slomo_> Cale: better ask sistpoty but he's not online right now... i didn't look at GHC for a long time now
<slomo_> Cale: why do you ask?
<Cale> Because I'd like to run it :)
<Cale> 6.6 incorporates a bunch of new libraries and language features.
<slomo_> well... we have ghc 6.4 and it works ;)
<Cale> yeah, I know :)
<slomo_> and we'll get 6.6 with feisty as debian already has it anyway
<giskard> hello slomo_
<slomo_> hi giskard :)
<giskard> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello giskard
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> scilab can't find Xaw3d
<LaserJock> but it's got the build-dep
<pirast> night
<cbx33> good evenin fellow MOTUs
<lupine_85> howdy
<lupine_85> btw, I got an emai from ubuntu about a package that I added to universe... apparently it's failing to build on the build machines. anything I can do?
<lupine_85> It *did* build in pbuilder, on mine and (presumably) my advocates' machines,
<lupine_85> (the package is rutilt)
<lupine_85> !rutilt
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about rutilt - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<lupine_85> gah
<LaserJock> lupine_85: can you rebuild with an updated pbuilder?
* lupine_85 scratches his memory
<lupine_85> I can try
<cbx33> could be a depdency has changed since?
<cbx33> LaserJock, hmm... ;)
<ajmitch> you could look at the build logs & see what caused it to fail
<lupine_85> it's the kernel headers that do it :(
<lupine_85> I think you were one of my advocates
<lupine_85> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4923206/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.rutilt_0.12-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ajmitch> ah yes, the difference in behaviour between pbuilder & sbuild on buildds
<lupine_85> is it something I can fix?
<ajmitch> that's not the failure
<ajmitch> /usr/bin/make clean
<ajmitch> make[1] : Entering directory `/build/buildd/rutilt-0.12'
<ajmitch> Makefile:34: Makefile_cst: No such file or directory
<ajmitch> make[1] : *** No rule to make target `Makefile_cst'.  Stop.
<lupine_85> that error gets ignored though?
<ajmitch> the makefile problem is where it fails
<lupine_85> hmm... makefile_cst gets generated by the config script
<lupine_85> it's not in the original tarball, and packaging rules forbid that I add it...
<lupine_85> no, that's a red herring
<lupine_85> the problem is when it can't find /usr/src/linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<lupine_85> or when they are mismatched against the current kernel
<lupine_85> hmm... changing to /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build *might* fix it
<lupine_85> yes... the build machine is running kernel 2.6.15.7 but the headers installed were 2.6.17-10-server-bigiron
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-24
<lupine_85> so changing the dir. won't help! TBH I think I bit off more than I could chew ;)
<lupine_85> any suggestions?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: with the debian packages lets say I wanted to have a file that i include in the package installed somewhere how do i do that?
<joejaxx> i was looking through the debian new maintainers guide
<joejaxx> and i see the config.ex file
<joejaxx> but it does not say where you specific where to tell the debian file to install them
<joejaxx> it = debian new maintainers guide
<LaserJock> dh_install
<joejaxx> ah
* joejaxx goes to do dh_install --help
<joejaxx> or man dh_install rather as the help flag points out
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i love the man pages haha
<joejaxx> they tell you everything you need to know
<joejaxx> application flags configuration file exmaples etc
<joejaxx> examples*
<lupine_85> going back to rutilt... it "looks like" it only uses the kernel headers/sources to determine whether or not WEXT is of a high enough version... so the temptartion is to create a patch that removes that check
<rmjb> Hi room
<Burgwork> channel, actually
<rmjb> Hello channel!
<robitaille> well technically I think the channel will not answer to a greeting, but the people in it will :)
* rmjb thinks this greeting thing is too hard
<lotusleaf> By the power of Ubuntu! Iiiiiii Haaave the poooowaaaaaahhh!
<lastnode> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> heya everyone
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> moins fellas
<AnAnt> there is a software that I want to package
<AnAnt> it is a java software and doesn't have regular directory structure (bin/ share/ ..) should I put it in /opt ?
<imbrandon> no, the package guide states nothing can go into /opt from the repos
<AnAnt> what should I do then ?
<Burgundavia> what does Debian Java policy say?
<AnAnt> where's that ?
<Burgundavia> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/
<Kagou> hi
<imbrandon> heya Kagou
* ajmitch waits impatiently for dinner
* lotusleaf gives ajmitch a carne asada burrito
<siretart> hi
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<siretart> huhu imbrandon
<siretart> does anyone know a reasonable rss feed validator? I'd like to know if my blogfeed is good enough for planet.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<siretart> heyho ajmitch
<ajmitch> http://validator.w3.org/feed/
<ajmitch> sigh, request for new upstream versions still being filed
<siretart> ajmitch: I read that the archive is final for edgy, is this correct?
<ajmitch> siretart: not for universe, afaik
<ajmitch> but for main, yes
<imbrandon> siretart, just fyi too , i've run planetplanet localy a few times and its pretty tolerant of feeds
<imbrandon> ( planetplanet runs planet.u.c )
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> so please people, fix universe bugs while you can!
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<siretart> hey dholbach
<siretart> imbrandon: I'm already on a planet of my local LUG: planet.lusc.de. I think it works reasonably there, and I wonder if thats good enough for p.u.c
<dholbach> heya ajmitch, imbrandon, siretart
<dholbach> siretart: sure! there's a guide on the wiki how to do it (how to get on planet)
<imbrandon> siretart, they preobably run the same software, so i would imagine so, it only takes a few mintes to set it up to test ( or you can always add it , if its not right remove it )
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, we want to see your blog :)
<siretart> wow. my feed passes validator.w3.org with warnings only
<imbrandon> siretart, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu  <-- how to add your feed
<dholbach> ha... warnings are for loosers! move on to planet ubuntu! :-)
* dholbach hugs siretart
<siretart> I'm not using a blog software, but a quite patched dokuwiki for my feed. therefore I wasn't too sure if that's good enough for planetplanet
<siretart> :)
<imbrandon> cant be any worse than blogger.com feeds , ugh
<siretart> ajmitch: http://wiki.tauware.de/blog:tags:english
<siretart> imbrandon: http://wiki.tauware.de/doku.php?blog=feed&tag=english
<imbrandon> my old blog before i moved my site to dreamhost i actualy did the rss via a php script that grabed the info from my db and remade the rss ever 5 minutes on cron by hand
<imbrandon> now THAT was hackish hehe
<imbrandon> but it was a home grown cms
<imbrandon> s/cms/blog
<siretart> wow. every ubuntu member can checkout the planetplanet config? sweet
<imbrandon> siretart, yup
<imbrandon> it says it can take upto 4 hours to show up but it only take about 10 minutes in reality
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'm pretty sure the planet script only runs every hour or two.
<siretart> hm. I still don't have a hackergotchi
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, not grabbing the rss from the blogs, you can see the update time on the right, every 11 minutes or so
<imbrandon> Updated on October 24, 2006 08:02 AM UTC. Entries are normalised to UTC time.
<imbrandon> from the right ^^
<imbrandon> and ~about 08:13 it will update again
<siretart> aha. dholbach doesn't have a hackergotchi either :)
<dholbach> jdub didn't like the one I made ages ago :)
<dholbach> so at some stage, I'll probably have a new one
<jsgotangco> the one with the flower?
<jsgotangco> heh
<ajmitch> siretart: we can make one for yo
<dholbach> jsgotangco: no, unfortunately not ;)
<jsgotangco> use the "germans" photo of highvoltage heh
<dholbach> hehe, that was funny
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ok so i was a few minutes off : Updated on October 24, 2006 08:16 AM UTC. Entries are normalised to UTC time.
<imbrandon> still more than 1 or 2 times an hour ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: you'd just need a suitable template, no? ;)
<ajmitch> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/518
<ajmitch> the famous siretart :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> waits for behind ubuntu to interview ajmitch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: in a couple of weeks, I think
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> I got an email from them
<ajmitch> of course I don't have any photo to supply for them :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Burgundavia> who is behind ubuntu?
<siretart> wah. that was in turkey about 3 years ago
<siretart> great place there, btw. nice place for scuba diving :)
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, seaLne iirc
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: at least our interview never went online
<imbrandon> yea what ever happened to that podcast ?
<ajmitch> it got lost, thankfully
<ajmitch> :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> me and sladen are supose to be getting our podcast going again sometime, dunno when
<imbrandon> heh
<jsgotangco> ahh these bigtime f/oss superstars
<ajmitch> says mr international celebrity speaker
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> hum video other than theora can be in a ogg container ?
<dholbach> siretart: scuba diving?
<ajmitch> afaik it's possible, but I haven't seen it
<dholbach> ajmitch: where is your blog?
<ajmitch> dholbach: I don't blog
<imbrandon> ajmitch, does totem ( or what ever the default ubuntu gnome video player is ) play xvid OOTB ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: very thankfully :)
<imbrandon> xvid/ogg specificly
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: thankful that I don't blog?
<dholbach> ajmitch: then you should :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no idea
<ajmitch> dholbach: I have nothing interesting to write about :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: to the interview that got lost
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: just don't remind jdub about it
<imbrandon> yea ajmitch and Hobbsee's blog are missing from planet
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: right
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sounds good to me
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hush.
* Hobbsee doesnt blog either
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I don't want to send people to sleep
<dholbach> ajmitch: sure you do - all your dirty little secrets - the world has a right to know! :-)
<bhale> my blog hasnt been there for a year
<ajmitch> haha
* dholbach hus ajmitch
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> if I were to write, it probably wouldn't be about ubuntu, most of the time
<ajmitch> hello DBO
<dholbach> btw I noticed that mooch has a blog for his dj mixtapes - that's a cool idea
<DBO> hello ajmitch
<siretart> dholbach: scuba diving is englisch for "Geraetetauchen"
<dholbach> siretart: ahhhh ok :-)
<Fujitsu> Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus or so.
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: ahh but i am but a simple software developer for a non-profit now
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: just waiting for your next big appearance
<jsgotangco> doh
* ajmitch considers starting a blog to bore everyone :)
<imbrandon> hum besides -dev and -core-dev what are the other major "groups" of *ubuntu
<ajmitch> -members
<imbrandon> i have an idea but i need a few categorys
<imbrandon> k -members , -doc-team ?
<ajmitch> those are the 3 that grant various rights
<ajmitch> sure, you also have doc, marketing, etc
<StevenK> ajmitch: But you already bore us? :-P
<ajmitch> & smaller teams like -desktop, -qa, -server
<ajmitch> StevenK: thanks, I'll go & cry myself to sleep now
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> At 8:30pm?
<StevenK> A little early to be depressed, isn't it? :-P
<imbrandon> well i would like to keep it to like 4 or 6 groups that cover most all people
<imbrandon> thus developers, members , .....
<imbrandon> developers == both dev and core-dev
<imbrandon> but just those two leave alot of people out
<imbrandon> but i dont wanna break it way way way down to -qa -desktop etc
<ajmitch> imbrandon: why do you need to do that?
<imbrandon> just an idea i had for a "faces.ubuntu.com" with a gallery of mugshots ( not bios ) of the ubuntu community
<imbrandon> or something kinda like it
<imbrandon> thus 4 or 5 "categorys" for faces
<imbrandon> the intoduce your self thread on the forum gave me the idea
<imbrandon> really i dunno, was just a passing thought
<ajmitch> imbrandon: aha
<siretart> wow. my blog got added even without flooding the planet
* siretart is impressed
<dholbach> woohoo
<ajmitch> hehe
<jelmer> 'morning
<ajmitch> hey jelmer
<jelmer> so, where's the next Ubuntu development meeting?
<Fujitsu> Hi jelmer (you weren't gone for long)
<jelmer> nope, just one uni course
<ajmitch> jelmer: probably after release
<jelmer> ah, ok
<ajmitch> since the next one would have been on release day
<ajmitch> when noone would want another meeting
<imbrandon> heh
<Amaranth> No one would be there. :P
<Amaranth> They'd all get excused from the meeting to work on the release. :)
<ajmitch> except the hordes of screaming users
<imbrandon> man i hate release time
<ajmitch> imbrandon: don't hate it, just get fixing bugs
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: we'll avoid thursday, right?  :P
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, hehe
<Amaranth> man, thursday is going to be all hands on deck in #ubuntu
* Hobbsee wont be there
* Hobbsee will be doing an assignment
* DBO marks the day
<Amaranth> It helps that all the people in #ubuntu+1 who know how to use edgy get autoforwarded to #ubuntu on the same day :)
<imbrandon> Amaranth, really starting today , alot upgrade early becouse its frozen anyhow ( main )
<DBO> i will be there aussie time
<DBO> imbrandon, and to avoid the server destruction
<ajmitch> I'll probably be passed out on the floor
<DBO> a noble way out =P
<Hobbsee> hehe
* DBO waves at Hobbsee 
<DBO> how you been?
<Hobbsee> DBO: assignments, work, etc
<Hobbsee> DBO: uploading from time to time
<DBO> generally busy
<DBO> got it =)
<sivang> hey folks
<Hobbsee> hey sivang
<imbrandon> heya sivang
<zakame> yo dholbach Hobbsee imbrandon sivang
* sivang high fives zakame
<cypher1> how can i make sure that a 4:3 ratio theme is available for usplash to show ?
<cypher1> or a theme to display on a 1024x768 resolution
<Fujitsu> cypher1: All of the official theme packages have such themes.
<cypher1> Fujitsu: thanks
<cypher1> Fujitsu: is there any document or tutorial on how usplash works ?
<imbrandon> anyone here use rsync regularly ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I use it a bit, but not exactly regularly.
<Fujitsu> cypher1: Not as far as I know.
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:/media/devel/support_files$ rsync -CvzapP --stats rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/daily-live/current/edgy-desktop-powerpc.iso .
<imbrandon> rsync: read error: Connection reset by peer (104)
<imbrandon> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(614) [receiver=2.6.8] 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, ^
<Fujitsu> The server crashed, or something? I've not seen such an error before.
<imbrandon> ahh it seems -devel i'm not the only one having issues
<imbrandon> its working now, something must have been borked at the DC
<StevenK> rsyncd could have died
<Fujitsu> <Spads> okay, I see a lot of rsync clients at the moment
<imbrandon> yea iwj was having issues too, but seems ok now
<imbrandon> zomg ajmitch i FINALY got a full ( as in will compile AND package any regular deb including getting libs etc ) for cross
* imbrandon dances
<ajmitch> oh good
<ajmitch> I'm just despairing at certain people who are intent on backporting things like firefox 2.0 to dapper
<imbrandon> i'm gonna find something semi complicated like a kde app to compile and then install it on my ppc to make one final test
<imbrandon> then i'll make a howto, its fairly simple once you know all the peices
<ajmitch> how about anything that uses a binary made at build time?
<imbrandon> hum like ?
<ajmitch> should be plenty of examples - gcc for one :)
<imbrandon> ahh well you have to stap it i'm thinking, there is two ways , one if you have that hardware .... well ...... ummmm
<imbrandon> tbh not sure just yet
<imbrandon> i'll have to test it a bit more
<Quinn_Storm> hey guys...I've heard that I've been away from this channel for too long
<ajmitch> quite a few packages compile a binary & then use that binary to process stuff
<ajmitch> hello Quinn_Storm
<Quinn_Storm> hi
<imbrandon> heya Quinn_Storm
<Quinn_Storm> I want to say first off, I agree that a freeze-and-bugfix mode to work toward feisty is a good idea
<ajmitch> it'll be necessary
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i see now, i hadent thought about that, maybe qemu can help out there
<imbrandon> i got to think how to make that transparent though
<ajmitch> imbrandon: especially the user-mode qemu, for running individual binaries
<imbrandon> yea thats what i was thinking
<Quinn_Storm> I think Amaranth really wants to drop the fork...I think obviously he's wrong in that goal...oh and also I think that we're gonna pull debian/ out of each module in svn and make a separate debian/ module & do tarball-based builds like everyone else
<imbrandon> thats how i tested the first binarys i made from hello.c
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, yea we're right with ya on that ( not the dropping the fork though , dunno where that came from )
<imbrandon> we ( me and ajmitch ) had a small chat with DBO earlier
<Quinn_Storm> yeah I'm talking to him now
<imbrandon> about /debian etc
<Quinn_Storm> I just want everyone to know that I'm not ignoring you, or trying to do things "wrong"
* DBO joins in
<imbrandon> heya DBO
<DBO> hi imbrandon
<DBO> I discussed with quinn and nigel_c (suspend2 guy turned beryl) your issues
<DBO> and nigel is looking into them now
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, no we werent saying that at all , we just noted some things that needed improved a bit to make it better
<Quinn_Storm> yeah, Amaranth has a different tone than you do, imbrandon , that's all
<Quinn_Storm> he's...always angry
<imbrandon> heh
<Quinn_Storm> I know he's trying to help though so it's not a big issue to me
<imbrandon> Amaranth, shame on you
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, dont get me wrong the sugestions we sugested woudl go a LONG way to helping me get the package into the repos ina clean way but i dunno about Amaranth's tone or anything else
<Quinn_Storm> Our general goal is to listen to the community and implement any needeed improvements, so things like moving debian/ out, creating the 0.2 branch for feisty, etc. are good ideas we plan to do.
<Quinn_Storm> (we're doing like compiz and using "old" kernel version numbering, so 0.1.x is unstable, 0.2.x stable, etc.)
<siretart> Quinn_Storm: good to hear that. at what point of development is beryl now?
<DBO> its getting ready for a freeze siretart =)
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, cool , keep me in the loop if you would , i guess i got volenteered to do this in the "official way" :)
<Quinn_Storm> gladly, and I think we'll be talking about all this at UDS too
<DBO> imbrandon, suckered =P
<imbrandon> yup yup
* Quinn_Storm should lurk here too
<imbrandon> yea i'll be at UDS and added myself to the bof
<siretart> DBO: cool!
<imbrandon> as will ajmitch i'm sure
<Quinn_Storm> yeah the 'freeze' will be the 0.2 branch...(ahead of previous schedule, but feisty needs it)
<Quinn_Storm> if that's okay with everyone
<ajmitch> imbrandon: which one?
<imbrandon> honestly its your code but i would do a feature freeze now and a full freeze about half way through the feisty cycle so bugs that come out in feisty can be fixed
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, ^^ just my 0.2c
<Quinn_Storm> ok, that makes sense, imbrandon , and if it keeps everyone happy that's great
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i said you will be at UDS MTV
<Quinn_Storm> well...actually
<Quinn_Storm> 0.2 would be a feature freeze but not full freeze
<Quinn_Storm> since its a 'stable' branch
<imbrandon> right
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you said you added yourself to the bof - what spec did you mean?
<imbrandon> the beryl-by-default one
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ^
<ajmitch> I'll see if I can muster up the will to come along :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, yup yup
<Quinn_Storm> ok, so 0.2 in the very near future, dev moving to 0.3.x, releases coming from 0.2.x, make sense everyone?
<thom> ajmitch: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/selinux-by-default
* ajmitch subscribes
<siretart> Quinn_Storm: this makes perfect sense
<ajmitch> thom: thanks for proposing that
<thom> ajmitch: i'll get at least a draft spec written up later.
<thom> np
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, yup and the other thing was to make tarbals for the releases that " ./configure;make;make install" can be run with nothing else and remove debian/ and .spec files , other than that looks rocking Quinn
<Quinn_Storm> yeah the debian/ and .spec will go into separate build-modules in svn instead
<Quinn_Storm> and we'll drop tarballs for the releases, sure
<imbrandon> rockin
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: even nicer - md5sums & gpg sign everything you release :)
<Quinn_Storm> sure...my key is well known, hope I don't ever lose it
<ajmitch> signed by many yet?
<imbrandon> backups !!
* Quinn_Storm should pick up a $10 flash drive to make sure
<Quinn_Storm> I don't htink so, ajmitch
<imbrandon> cd-r good too ;)
<ajmitch> get it signed at UDS
<Quinn_Storm> cool, will do
<jsgotangco> and be cool like ajmitch
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: :P
<ajmitch> hi herzi
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm, feel free to "drop me a line" email anytime too and i'll try to keep up with #beryl-dev when i can
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> cook strait ferry finally made it into wellington
<ajmitch> poor people who had to sit out there in the rough seas :)
<Quinn_Storm> sure, imbrandon
<imbrandon> and DBO ^^ hehehe
<DBO> I just try to make sure everyones happy
* imbrandon just tries to be happy
<ajmitch> but it's far more fun to be bitter & hating
<imbrandon> lol
<DBO> and easier
<siretart> DBO: I have a radeon 7500, using the opensource 'ati' driver. is that chip/driver fast enough for beryl/emerald? (and is that question already answered in some FAQ I don't know if yet?)
<DBO> yes
<DBO> its fast enough
<DBO> just disable blur and perhaps raise the timestep a bit on the animation plugin
<imbrandon> siretart, i use that exact setup on my lappy just fine
<DBO> also dont use fire
<Quinn_Storm> ok, debian/'s are already out in trunk, into distro-specific-build-files/$module/debian
* DBO cries for his recently broken build script
<DBO> time to write a new one!
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: btw, are there 2 differing svn repositories?
<siretart> imbrandon: cool. so I 'just' need to compile and install beryl/emerald to profit, right?
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: the one on beryl-project.org is a mirror, checked every 1min against the main repo, its for anon checkout to not overtax my machine
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: right, not done with rsync or similar?
<Quinn_Storm> svm
<ajmitch> since I couldn't just do svn switch --relocate
<imbrandon> siretart, yea
<Quinn_Storm> its done with svm...it should work I guess svm isn't up to the task
<siretart> imbrandon: interesting. will put it on my todo list
<imbrandon> siretart, i've been working on packages too, i ahve some 0.1 ones but i havent updated completely to 0.1.1 yet
<ajmitch> imbrandon: my i915 is supposedly up to it as well :)
<ajmitch> though I haven't tried for awhile
<imbrandon> hehe my i845 does it but slowly
<Quinn_Storm> I'm soon to get a laptop with gma900 in it...hope its good enough, heh...$500 tho...not a bad deal for the machine
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: yes, that's what my one is listed as
<Quinn_Storm> cool
<ajmitch> though I got it more for the 100GB disk & 1GB RAM
<ajmitch> than the cheap integrated graphics
<ajmitch> only time I tried compiz on it was when it first came out
<Quinn_Storm> heh I got mine for the $500 pricetag...14" wxga, 40GB hdd (plenty for me), 512MB ram @ 400 fsb (4x the speed of my desktop)...
<ajmitch> imbrandon: how close are your packages to being done?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i could finish them tonight if i spend about 30 more minutes on them
<ajmitch> I wouldn't mind doing some laptop testing..
<ajmitch> you don't need sleep
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> don't feel that you need to
<ajmitch> I'll probably go & sleep before you do :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> well i would do it right now but i have gcc compiling
<ajmitch> you need dual-core
<imbrandon> ye no doubt
<ajmitch> twice the fun
<ajmitch> good to see tfheen being a BRMFH :)
<imbrandon> a what ?
<ajmitch> you know of the classic BOFH?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> hahah classic : Edgy is so frozen, you would not believe
<ajmitch> BOFH = bastard operator from hell
<imbrandon> ahh
<jsgotangco> Hahhaha
<ajmitch> it is a classic work
<imbrandon> rm release mgr
<imbrandon> i guess
<ajmitch> yes
<imbrandon> :)
<jsgotangco> Would you be one in the future? Heh
<imbrandon> no, not anytime in the forseeable future, i dont want that job
<imbrandon> ever
<ajmitch> I wonder who'll be landed with it for feisty
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> "[snip pseudo bug report] "
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> harsh
<Quinn_Storm> lol yeah quite harsh
* imbrandon dident think so 
<imbrandon> but i'm a tad bias i guess
<imbrandon> ( to that particular email )
<ajmitch> sleep time, night all
<imbrandon> gnight ajmitch
<ajmitch> I expect everyone to fix some edgy bugs
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> we don't want universe to be frozen in the state it's in
<imbrandon> the mod-mono one needs apache2 rebuilt thats not gonna happen /me moves to the next one
<ajmitch> so get fixing :)
<ajmitch> and I'm going off to sleep, deadlines at work
<Nafallo> ajmitch: any high urgency targets?
<gnomefreak> are we in a freeze til after release?
<Nafallo> except tolip?
<Nafallo> gnomefreak: yes, we are frozen until feisty opens
<gnomefreak> ty
<Nafallo> s/tolip/topic/
<gnomefreak> so its safe to say if its not fixed it wont be for a while
<Nafallo> fixes may get approved for uploads still.
<gnomefreak> k
<Nafallo> but one of dholbach, slomo_, ajmitch, siretart have to approve the upload beforehand
<xerxas> Hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi xerxas
<xerxas> Hi Fujitsu
<gnomefreak> ogra: have you uploaded the patch for xscreensaver (netpbm)?
<ogra> i wasnt allowed to when i wanted last week ...
<ogra> i'll push it in an update
<gnomefreak> ty its not important but im sure im not the only person with the issue.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> sorry for being late with that one
<ogra> sadly x-s-s is on the Cd so i cant just upload it even if the fix is only for universe
<gnomefreak> its cool
<gnomefreak> ah
<gnomefreak> i didnt know it was on CD
<ogra> xscreensaver-data and xscreensaver-gl are ...
<ogra> all others are in universe ... (apart from xscreensaver itself thats used by xubuntu and thus in main)
<gnomefreak> ah
<neutrinomass> squishdot needs a rebuild to fix the dep issues ( bug 65474 )
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65474 in squishdot "[UNMETDEPS]  squishdot has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65474
<bddebian> Heya gang
<neutrinomass> ^^ ignore above comment, nothing's fixed
<neutrinomass> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya neutrinomass
<neutrinomass> i may have figured out bug 65474 after all :)  (only mentioning to get comments in case something isn't correct)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65474 in squishdot "[UNMETDEPS]  squishdot has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65474
<sivang> re fellas
<phanatic> hey sivang
<Toadstool> 'morning everybody
<bhale> hi whiprush
<whiprush> hi bhale
<hub> how does gac installation works in packages?
<slomo_> hub: man dh_installcligac or look at the debian CLI policy
<hub> because my package does not seem to register the lib in GAC
<hub> I'll dig more
<slomo_> hub: what package is this?
<slomo_> hub: libgphotosharp? ;)
<hub> no
<hub> a backport of libgmimesharp
<hub> for "work"
<slomo_> ah ok
<hub> so it install the .installlibgac in /usr/share/cli-common/packages.d/
<hub> but who run that?
<_MMA_> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon_> _MMA_: pong
<_MMA_> :) I think I just ran across your repo. Am I right?
<_MMA_> Do you have one?
<imbrandon_> possibly , yes
<LaserJock> imbrandon: deny it! :-)
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: hehe
<imbrandon_> heya
<giskard> hey LaserJock
* imbrandon_ almost did , i'm so sleepy my eyes are shutting ;)
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon and giskard
<LaserJock> well, if you weren't on EU time you'd be doing much better
<zul> imbrandon_: listen to some shakira that will wake you up
<Subhuman> ?
* LaserJock puts on some Britney Spears
<imbrandon_> lol
<giskard> please someone save LaserJock
<zul> or shoot him
* LaserJock looks around but can't find any Britney Spears
<LaserJock> oh well ;-)
<giskard> give me baby one more time
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<_MMA_> cbx33: Are you still blocked from UbuntuStudio.org?
<cbx33> _MMA_, not sure
<cbx33> not at work for the next few days
<_MMA_> Ok. I had it fixed after you mentioned it.
<_MMA_> I have no way to make sure though.
<imbrandon_> heya cbx33
<imbrandon_> ok off to sleep, gnight fellas
<CarlFK> sudo dpkg -i spe_0.8.3-svn-158_all.deb - that errors with "dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of spe:" python-wxglade...  I can fix with 'apt-get -f install' - wondering if there is a 'nicer' way to do it?
<Nafallo> CarlFK: gdebi is nice
<CarlFK> bingo!
<LaserJock> mwuahaha, I can code!
<LaserJock> sorta
<CarlFK> Nafallo: thanks much.  this was driving me nuts
<Nafallo> np :-)
<Nafallo> thank mvo :-)
<rmjb> Hello, anyone knows if the initramfs leaves a log anywhere?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> hmm, is 0xffff a hex number?
<rmjb> yeah, should be 65535
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey ajmitch
<sivang> hi ajmitch
<giskard> ajmitch:  sivang :)
<sivang> hey giskard
<LaserJock> hmm, I can't seem to figure out how to do RGB colors here
<rmjb> FF FF FF <- R B G, 8 bits for each colour resulting in 24 bits total
<LaserJock> rmjb: well, but 0xffff is for just R
<LaserJock> that's what is getting me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what colour depth are you playing with?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hmm, I have no idea
<LaserJock> it's just a gtk+ app
<chantra> hi there, as /lib/iptables/libipt_account.so ever being in ubuntu iptables?
<rmjb> LaserJock: there is 16 bit colour, with 5 bits per colour and an extra for green... can 0xffff be for all 3 colours?
<rmjb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highcolour
<LaserJock> no, I'm setting each seperatly
<minghua> LaserJock: so maybe you need three numbers for a color?
<LaserJock> rigt
<LaserJock> I can get it to do red , green, and blue
<LaserJock> and mixes of the full colors
<LaserJock> but it seems like I can only switch between 0 and 0xffff for each of RGB
<minghua> won't surprise me
<LaserJock> if I put in 0x00ff for instance for red it doesn't do anyting
<LaserJock> it must do it somehow
<minghua> oh
<minghua> so 0xffff is the same as 0xff00
<minghua> and 0x00ff is the same as 0x0000?
<LaserJock> I don't think it does anything
<rmjb> do you see a difference between 0xff00 and 0xffff? or anyone in between?
<LaserJock> ok, so if I set red and blue to 0xffff and green to 0 I get purple
<rmjb> it could be that each 8 bit colour is being stored in a 16 bit value, which means the last two hex digits are meaningless
<rmjb> ?
<LaserJock> if I set red to 0xff00 it doesn't change
<LaserJock> if I set red to 0x00ff I get blue
<minghua> very strange
<minghua> LaserJock: this is in coding?
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> C?  (you said GTK)
<LaserJock> so 0xff00 is the same as 0xffff and 0x00ff is the same a 0
<LaserJock> C++
<LaserJock> I'll just ask the author
<rmjb> that's what it looks like LaserJock
<LaserJock> I thought maybe I was just stupid
<rmjb> ignore the last two hex digits of  each colour
<minghua> LaserJock: using GTK or gtkmm?
<LaserJock> GTK
<minghua> LaserJock: is this color set in some GTK function or some function of the app?
<LaserJock> that's what I'm not sure of, I'm pretty sure the app does something
<Burgwork> LaserJock: usually apps do things...
<minghua> typedef struct {
<minghua>   guint32 pixel;
<minghua>   guint16 red;
<minghua>   guint16 green;
<minghua>   guint16 blue;
<minghua> } GdkColor;
<minghua> that's the color data structure in GTK
<minghua> so you are supposed to be able to use 0x0 to 0xffff
<LaserJock> case solved
<chantra> !libipt_account
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about libipt_account - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<LaserJock> from the author, "GdkColor use 16 bits colors, but when rendered only the 8 highest bits are used"
<LaserJock> I used to think that people should learn Python as their first programming language
<LaserJock> now I think I'm changing my mind
<rmjb> C++ ?
<LaserJock> learning Python first just spoils you
<rmjb> x86 ASM :)
<LaserJock> C++ seems like a good beginning point
<LaserJock> I also think it's good to start out with OOP
<Burgwork> LaserJock: I learned c++ as my first language
<Burgwork> I don't program any more largely because of the pain of c++
<LaserJock> yeah, but going from C++ to Python is a breeze I'd imagine
<Burgwork> who cares?
<LaserJock> going from Python to C++ is  pain :-)
<Burgwork> make programming fun and easy, then deal with that
<Burgwork> but you are already hooked
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> hook them on Python and then torture them with C++ :-)
<hub> and I python better have a good QA
<hub> because there are a LOT of errors that the C++ compiler catch
<yosch> hi guys,
<yosch> bug 62756 says fixed in bzr, how do I get the branch?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62756 in casper "mono confused by the desktopCD" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62756
<lucas> oops
<ajmitch> yosch: it's fixed in any of the recent live cd images
<ajmitch> why do you need the bzr branch of casper?
<Adri2000> ajmitch: you can approve universe uploads?
<yosch> ajmitch: yes, but I'm doing a dapper-based livecd and the bug is still present, nothing is working monowise
<ajmitch> Adri2000: yes
<yosch> ajmitch: well, to see where the bug is
<ajmitch> yosch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk
<yosch> ajmitch: thanks, branching
<Adri2000> ajmitch: bug 56320, this firefox extension doesn't work at all, it needs the last upstream release which has very minor changes (a few line to make it compatible with firefox 2), but the upstream author didn't change the version number
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56320 in webdeveloper "does not work with Firefox 2.0 beta" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56320
<ajmitch> Adri2000: so it's really a new upstream release, which needs to go via motu-uvf, not just myself
<Adri2000> ajmitch: ok
<superm1> ajmitch, yesterday i put together a UVFe to fix the unmet deps on autoprofile.  is there anything else that I will need to do other than subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (bug #67761)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67761 in autoprofile "Universe UVFe for autoprofile 2.14" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67761
<superm1> (and of course attach diffstat/upstream changelog/pbuilder)
<ajmitch> yes, assign to motu-uvf, otherwise it won't be seen
<ajmitch> hm unless dholbach has already approved it..
<superm1> :)
<ajmitch> superm1: it needs to be filed as a sync request then
<ajmitch> so put the debian changelog entries & subscribe ubuntu-archive
<superm1> in the same bug right?
<ajmitch> yes
<superm1> so in general then when do i subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors versus ubuntu-archive to get something uploaded?
<ajmitch> u-u-s to get it checked over
<ajmitch> u-a needs to be subscribed for a sync
<superm1> and if motu-uvf is in the picture, skip u-u-s once they approve?
<ajmitch> considering that it's already tested & approved, subscribe ubuntu-archive here
<ajmitch> either way you need to get someone to upload or approve it
<superm1> okay
<superm1> added them on then.  thanks
<rmjb> what's the commands to diff across directories? diff -Nru ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<rmjb> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-25
<rmjb> Hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Morning rmjb.
<rmjb> Evening
<keescook> seb128 is too fast for me, and he isn't even logged in to irc.  :)
<rmjb> I want to help, just pick something from this list: http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a and get it to build right?
<LaserJock> rmjb: sounds good :-)
<rmjb> if someone's already commented move on? eg: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vdr/+bug/65340
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65340 in vdr "[UNMETDEPS]  vdr has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<LaserJock> well, read what they commented
<rmjb> that it depends on dvb-dev... that's left to fix or not fixable?
<LaserJock> that just says that's what the unmet dep was
<rmjb> cool
<LaserJock> the bug is first reported to just say that there was an unmet dep
<LaserJock> then Caroline commented and said what the unmet dep is
<ajmitch> not always accurately
<LaserJock> right
<rmjb> gotcha
<rmjb> when updating a dependency against kernel headers, is it okay to set the dependency to linux-headers-386? or will that cause problems when building on other archs?
<zul> yay laptop searches at the border
<rmjb> I figured out my last question, apparently linux-libc-dev works in place of linux-kernel-headers
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rmjb> another question (I am full of them aren't I?) some source packages from http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a fail to build but the dependency is not in main, but in universe... what's the solution in that case?
<ajmitch> explain..
<ajmitch> dependency not in main?
<rmjb> libgpiv https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libgpiv/+bug/65356 fails to build from source
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65356 in libgpiv "[UNMETDEPS]  libgpiv has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<rmjb> has unmep deps of fftw-dev and libhdf5-serial-dev
<rmjb> fftw-dev is in universe, but fftw3-dev is in main
<rmjb> so updating to fftw3-dev solves that
<ajmitch> why is that a problem?
<rmjb> well... it fails to build and there's an unmet dep entry in malone for it
<rmjb> the build servers pull only from main?
<ajmitch> no, if that were the case then 95% of universe wouldn't build
<Fujitsu> rmjb: No, they pull from everywhere.
<Fujitsu> What ajmitch said.
* ajmitch can install fftw-dev
<rmjb> and my pbuilder
<rmjb> I can too install fftw-dev too
<Fujitsu> rmjb: You need to configure your pbuilder to pull from universe and multiverse as well.
<rmjb> okay then... will look into that
<psusi> I am trying to write a bash script that greps the output of one command to decide something, but the command to the left in the pipeline's status is used to decide truth, rather than the status of the grep to the right in the pipeline
<psusi> how could I overcome this?
<rmjb> psusi: can you give an example?
<psusi> if echo foo | grep -q -e foo ; then ____ ; fi
<psusi> echo returns true, so the if evaluates as true.... even though grep returns false... well, not in that example... but if echo wasn't echoing foo but something else
<psusi> wait.... nevermind
<psusi> I think I just confused myself
<psusi> ok.... yea... I just screwed up the test and confused myself.... I thought it was supposed to be the right, not the left status
<psusi> that is used from the pipeline
<rmjb> sometimes you just need to talk it out
<psusi> hehe
<rmjb> Something's listed as having unmet deps in the list to work on, but it's listed in the repos with the correct version... that means it was fixed and should be closed on malone?
<ajmitch> not necessarily
<rmjb> it builds for me
<ajmitch> doesn't mean that all binary packages are installable on all architectures
<rmjb> ok
<rmjb> setting Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} makes the binary package dependent on the version of the libs that are used to compile against?
<psusi> what the crap?
<psusi> all I have to do is insert a blank line in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/dmraid and update-initramfs bombs out with:
<psusi> eval: 1: array_dmraid~=: not found
<rmjb> huh? what are you trying to do?
<psusi> udevify dmraid
<rmjb> udevify?
<psusi> yea... make it scan disks as they are detected by udev rather than in a static boot time script
<psusi> so my system can boot newer kernels that scan for the drives in the background
<psusi> oh my god.... can it really be so silly?
<psusi> emacs made a backup save ending in ~ and it doesn't like that
<rmjb> oh, this is to fix the dmraid bug #54246 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54246
<psusi> oh, I didn't know there was a bug filed for it
<rmjb> two
<rmjb> other one: #67606
<psusi> ohh, that one is a seperate bug
<rmjb> yeah
<psusi> that is due to dmraid being buggy on via metadata and trying to create a stripe using the ENTIRE drive
<rmjb> separate issues
<psusi> instead of just the portion of the disk actually used ( not the last few sectors that aren't enough for another whole stripe )
<psusi> I have a patch for that one too
<psusi> sent it upstream
<rmjb> what dmraid package are you using now?
<psusi> self build from the latest upstream sources
<rmjb> ok
<psusi> yea, I made a patch for that bug so the kernel won't refuse the new dmraid table, but now dmraid is run before the kernel detects the disks
<psusi> because they now scan for the drives in the backround rather than blocking the modprobe
<rmjb> the first bug? it's fixed in versions above rc10
<Fujitsu> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu :)
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<psusi> not for via
<rmjb> o i c
<psusi> not sure if they fixed it for nvidia or something
<psusi> but I got rc13 and it was still bugged...
<psusi> just commented on that but with my 2 line patch to fix it
<rmjb> this is to boot a system with / on fakeraid or just get access to fakeraid partitions on a running system?
<psusi> root on
<psusi> well, either way
<rmjb> I was *trying* to help some guy that had his root on fake raid under dapper, and it was working, but upgrading to edgy could not boot into the 2.6.17 kernel
<rmjb> after a few hours he booted the live cd, installed dmraid rc13 from the bug report and used that initrd, and his system booted
<psusi> yea.... that is because the new kernel will not accept sizes that are not an even multiple of the stripe width, and dmraid has always been bugged and used the entire disk size... at least for via
<rmjb> well this guy was on nvidia
<psusi> did he have via or nv?
<psusi> let me check that module real quick, see if it has the same problem
<rmjb> I have nvidia and the rc13 from the bug report works for me to access partitions on a fakeraid array
<ajmitch> the Hobbsee_ clones are invading now
<rmjb> my root is not on it though
* ajmitch doesn't understand why people like these fakeraid solutions
<Hobbsee> indeed.  muhahaha
<psusi> strange.... looks like nv has the same bug
<psusi> it doesn't round down
<rmjb> cause it makes us feel like we're running the real thing
<psusi> because it is dirt cheap and fast
* ajmitch finds linux software raid to be a much better solution
<rmjb> that's weird, cause I can access my partitions on my fakeraid
<psusi> can't boot from that or dual boot with windows
<psusi> rmjb, are you sure with the earlier version you got the error: device-mapper: dm-stripe: Target length not divisible by chunk size
<rmjb> and this guy, when he used the livecd to install rc13, he cause use that generated initrd to boot his regular system
<rmjb> yep
<psusi> strange....
<psusi> oh wait a second
<rmjb> that was before I updated my initrd
<psusi> rc13 you say?
<psusi> strange... I'm looking at rc12-pre1
<psusi> I just pulled it the other day and it was the latest
<zul> right im going to bed
<Fujitsu> 'night, zul.
<psusi> oh, ok... rc13 is there now ;)
<rmjb> yes, after installing rc13 and updating my initrd I can get to my partitions, BUT there still seems to be an issue with booting to it
<rmjb> g'night zul
<psusi> what issue is that?
<ajmitch> night zul
<Fujitsu> A zul-fabbione tag-team is it? :P
<psusi> probably the udev stuff I was working on ;)
<rmjb> dunno, it just didn't work, wasn't my system so I couldn't dig deeper
<rmjb> I'd be interested to see if you get yours to boot
<rmjb> but I gtg
<psusi> what is the proper procedure for doing an upstream source upgrade to a package?  so far I just untar the new tarball and copy the debian directory from the old package to the new untared directory and kind of kludge it
<Fujitsu> uupdate can do it for you.
<psusi> ahh, sweet
<Fujitsu> Unpack the existing source package, cd into it, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/source.tar.gz'
<psusi> what if the package is .bz2?
<Fujitsu> bunzip2 and gzip it first.
<psusi> I think I ran into trouble the other day because the deb tools don't like bz2
<rmjb> psusi: why repackage rc13? you can use the one in the bug report
<Fujitsu> Yeah, you need to turn it into a gzip.
<psusi> yea, that's what I did... was hoping there was aw ay to kick the tools into using bz2
<psusi> rmjb, ohh, I guess I can now... cool
<psusi> wait... only a binary is there
<rmjb> here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3348
<rmjb> for source
<psusi> ahh, kk
<rmjb> still waiting on review
<Fujitsu> rmjb: You normally don't use REVU for that sort of thing. REVU is meant to new/rewritten packages.
<rmjb> hmm... where should I send my update then?
<Fujitsu> rmjb: Attach it to the bug.
<rmjb> ohh... a dpatch, a diff or just the changes file?
<Fujitsu> Because it's a new upstream version, the entire source package (.dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz)
<rmjb> actually, the maintainer of dmraid hasn't addressed the bug yet (filed since July)
<Fujitsu> If it's not a new upstream version, a debdiff is fine.
<rmjb> I guess because the maintainer is Utnubu
<psusi> well, that's nice... firefox is using a gig of ram
<ajmitch> psusi: is that all?
<rmjb> okay, I've uploaded my source package, who do I ping to let them know it's there?
<Fujitsu> You need to request a UVF exception, but the chances of such a thing happening now are absolutely minimal.
<rmjb> now as in this close to launch or as in after freeze?
<Fujitsu> This close to launch.
<rmjb> psusi: I just had to reboot because even after I closed everything (firefox, synaptic, bittorrent, etc) I was still using over 400M of RAM
<Fujitsu> A few days ago it would probably have been approved, but probably not in the last 24 hours before release...
<rmjb> Fujitsu: yeah I figured it wont go in now, it's just frustrating to be broken for so long, I hope it gets fixed in edgy
<rmjb> or rather that the fix makes it into edgy
<psusi> god damnit
<psusi> where do you search the lkml?  I can't find the search box on lkml.org
<psusi> I remember seeing something about a module you can probe that will block until all disks have been scanned
<psusi> loading that in the boot script should be a quick and simple fix
<Fujitsu> Ew ew ew...
* Fujitsu just looked in dmraid and saw a .spec.
<psusi> eh?
<Fujitsu> RPM stuff.
<rmjb> it's done by a redhat guy
<Fujitsu> ... WHY are there vim swap files in the upstream source?
<psusi> oh... yea
<psusi> I noticed that too ;)
<psusi> his tarball isn't very distclean
<psusi> actually, I pissed off the dh scripts by doing a make distclean, which deleted some files that were in his tarball
<psusi> so the dh scripts bitched that I had modified files in the .orig.gz outside /debian
<psusi> god damnit, I can't find the mention now of that module to wait on the background scanning
<psusi> it is lost somewhere in the massive flow that is lkml
<LaserJock> ajmitch & Amaranth: ping
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: have you found a place to stay in Mountain View
<ajmitch> no idea yet
<rmjb> Fujitsu: updated the source package attached to the bug as per your comment
<rmjb> thanks for the eyes
<Fujitsu> No problem.
<LaserJock> anybody know of docs on the Debian release process?
<LaserJock> like timeline and what happens
<Fujitsu> Timeline? What timeline?
<LaserJock> yeah, yeah
<LaserJock> it sounds like they really are going to release
<LaserJock> I want to make sure I don't miss a freeze or something for the packages I maintain in Debian
<Fujitsu> They do say Decembter, but this is Debian, remember.
<LaserJock> yes, but this time they have the dunc tank  ;-)
<psusi> what was the helper script to take a .dsc and untar the .orig.tar.gz and apply the diff to it?
<LaserJock> dpkg-source -x
<psusi> ty
<rmjb> g'night all
<rmjb> good luck psusi
<ben_> hey guys, i was just wondering how hard it is to learn how to package
<Burgundavia> ben_: not hard, there is a great guide for it
<ben_> not hard...considering...i dont know any languages...i just want to help out
<ben_> im not a noob, but im no hacker either
<ben_> where might i find that guide?
<imbrandon> !package guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<imbrandon> and knowing a lang isnt nessesary, but helpfull
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> moins all
<imbrandon> LaserJock, its pretty close to freeze if not frozen already ( debian testing )
<ben_> awesome thanks all
<LaserJock> imbrandon: everything is frozen
<LaserJock> ?
<imbrandon> no just stuff migrating from unstable to testing ( e.g. what will make it into etch )
<imbrandon> sid never freezes
<LaserJock> hmm, that stinks
<LaserJock> I thought just the core was frozen
<imbrandon> ummm debian everything is in "main" cept non-free
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I know, but I thought they had a list of like the kernel, libc, etc. that were frozen before the others
<imbrandon> ahh no idea
<imbrandon> hum ajmitch your probably gonna be bringing a lappy right ? http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/10/24/2028215.shtml
<imbrandon> thats gonna suck if it happenes to someone
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure
<imbrandon> seems a few have been confiscated at the border
<imbrandon> :(
<ajmitch> though there are probably several million laptops that go through the borders without being confiscated
<imbrandon> true
<ajmitch> it'd be more of a worry if I carry vegemite ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> why is that ?
<imbrandon> isnt that a food ?
<ajmitch> yes
<Fujitsu> It's banned due to containing folate.
<Fujitsu> (in the US)
<imbrandon> ahh
<ajmitch> so the rumour goes
<imbrandon> that sounds kinda silly
<ajmitch> though we're not entirely sure how much of the reporting on it is accurate
<imbrandon> how reliable is news.com.au ?
<imbrandon> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20620744-953,00.html
<Fujitsu> I've heard it from many non-Internet-based sources, so it's fairly reliable, I believe.
<tritium> Well, crap.  I wanted ajmitch to bring me some vegemite.
<imbrandon> hehe
<Burgundavia> US has officially denied it
<Fujitsu> Where?
<lotusleaf> what isn't banned in the U.S.?
<Burgundavia> vegemite
<Burgundavia> otherwise known as Aussie Road Tar
<Fujitsu> Vegemite is good!
<Burgundavia> for certain values of good
<Burgundavia> that most of the world doesn't share
<Fujitsu> For all values of good.
<Burgundavia> you are wacked
<Fujitsu> As long as you don't put it on too thickly.
<Burgundavia> :)
<ajmitch> vegemite > *
<Burgundavia> s/too thickly/at all/
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: yup.
* ajmitch has a jar of it on his desk here
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> what the heck is vegemite?
<LaserJock> I've been seeing that story all over the place lately
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: nasty black paste that aussies and south africans put on toast
<LaserJock> oh
<Burgundavia> vegetable version of marmite, another nasty black paste that aussies and south africans love
<LaserJock> they don't have jam?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's great stuff
<_MMA_> "He just smiled an gave me a vegemite sandwich"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this is far better than jam or any of that boring stuff
<FunnyLookinHat> sounds like gnutella   (SO GOOD)
* ajmitch would often sit at his computer & have marmite on bread as a snack
<Fujitsu> It's very good.
<Fujitsu> FunnyLookinHat: Nutella, you mean?
<Burgundavia> notice all the aussies are telling us how good it is
<Burgundavia> nobody else likes the stuff
<_MMA_> LaserJock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: you call me an Aussie?
<Fujitsu> Ah, but I'm Canadian!
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: close enough...
* Burgundavia ducks
<lotusleaf> crikey, eh?
<FunnyLookinHat> Fujitsu, ah right, yes Nutella   : )
<Fujitsu> Unless you like putting P2P networks on bread/toast...
<FunnyLookinHat> LOL
<Kagou> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach, when does universe freeze?
<dholbach> I have not heard anything about it yet, so go ahead :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> dholbach: mithrandir said you ought to know :P
<dholbach> I'm happy to get fixes still in
<Amaranth> someone say my name?
<lotusleaf> Amaranth: no, but I will if it pleases you. =)
<Amaranth> haha
<lotusleaf> *<:O)
<dholbach> <mdz> dholbach: it's time to stop accepting uploads for anything but a showstopper, including universe.  we should have dedicated access to the publisher if we need to act quickly
<Hobbsee> dholbach: awwww
<sivang> morning
<siretart> mplayer has just been accepted in debian/main! http://incoming.debian.org/mplayer_1.0~rc1~svn20199-1.dsc
<TheMuso> WOw.
<sivang> siretart: how come?
<sivang> license change?
<siretart> sivang: no. the maintainer fixed the package
<Nafallo> OMG
<Nafallo> is it crack? ;-)
<jsgotangco> wow
<siretart> that's what I call a debian/copyright file!
<siretart> we should use it as example for revu! ;)
<gnomefreak> does that mean feisty will have mplayer in main?
<lophyte> that would rock
<gnomefreak> that doesnt sound legit
* gnomefreak was thinking mplayer was a mozilla product and would need more than just a fix
<bhale> mplayer in main? holy crap
<bhale> i doubt it
<siretart> gnomefreak: we need to reinvestigate several source packages in multiverse, among them mplayer.
<siretart> gnomefreak: after feisty opens
<siretart> bhale: dget http://incoming.debian.org/mplayer_1.0~rc1~svn20199-1.dsc
<gnomefreak> oh i agree. if we can move anything out of multiverse would be a great idea
<siretart> gnomefreak: afai see there, mencoder got removed
<gnomefreak> for mplayer?
<bhale> siretart: for ubuntu, i men
<gnomefreak> from*
<bhale> siretart: not questioning debian
<bhale> debian main != ubuntu main
<gnomefreak> bhale: debian just did it
<bhale> sigh
<bhale> not the same
<jsgotangco> well people will rave for ubuntu to do the same i guess
<bhale> mplayer has a bad security track record
<bhale> and we have xine and gstreamer in main already
<sivang> siretart: what was preventing it from entering debian main?
<gnomefreak> that doesnt sound right. we have some xine and some gstreamer installed by default
<StevenK> A lot of things are preventing mplayer from hitting main.
<bhale> are you guys aware what ubuntu main means
<StevenK> The formost of them being "the ftpmasters don't like it"
<gnomefreak> license would be the biggest thing i would think
<StevenK> That's the second. :-)
<bhale> bad security track record, many points of entry for ugliness
<sivang> gnomefreak: that was the first thing I was wondering if got fixed when siretart said it entered main
<sivang> bhale: ah
* gnomefreak looking for license as we speak
<bhale> ubuntu main means "we support this for security for 18 months (or more)"
<bhale> being in debian main means you can be in universe as opposed to multiverse
<bhale> not that we will automatically commit to support it
<Nafallo> I will probably prefer to stay with out current package.
<Nafallo> s/out/our/
<Nafallo> we have mencoder and stuff :-)
<Ornedan> I seem to have issues with the new Eclipse packages in Edgy (updated yesterday)
<Ornedan> Eclipse does not start up. According to log, the workbench plugin fails to load
<gnomefreak> license looks like it shouldnt be in multiverse. they give you right to distribute and modify it as long as you make source avilable
<Nafallo> gnomefreak: we build against stuff in multiverse.
<gnomefreak> Ornedan: what version are you using?
<gnomefreak> 3.2.1-0ubuntu1?
<Ornedan> Yes
<gnomefreak> it opens fine here
<siretart> Nafallo: placing mplayer in multiverse does not seem to make much sense to me.
<Nafallo> having support for everything the users need seems to be a good idea to me :-)
<gnomefreak> siretart: i think since we build mencoder and mencoder is nonfree is why it is in there
<siretart> Nafallo: all of mplayer is free software. if there s problems with some parts of it (e.g. libdvdcss or mp3 encoding algorithms), then the same would apply to multiverse as well
<gnomefreak> build in mencoder to mplayer
<siretart> Nafallo: look, e.g. faad is in multiverse, but as well in debian main. I rather propse to check which packages from multiverse could be promoted
<gnomefreak> dont forget w32codecs it has (atleast can play) by default
<siretart> gnomefreak: mplayer doesn't have w32codecs built in
<gnomefreak> it uses something to play them by default
<Nafallo> siretart: ah, right. as long as we don't drop features from what we have now...
<Ornedan> 'k. Just tested - doesn't seem to be my profile, at least. A brand new test account also fails the same way when trying to load eclipse
<siretart> Nafallo: I'd also object to loose freedom.
<Nafallo> sure, but for freedom we still have totem, gstreamer and xine.
<siretart> Nafallo: but you're right. I'd also love to have mencoder. in universe
<Ornedan> Is removing the eclipse packages using Adept "Purge" option and then re-installing enough to get a fully clean installation?
<gnomefreak> Ornedan: should be also get rid of your workspace folder by default its in home
* Nafallo wonders how free unrarlib.{c,h} might be...
<siretart> bhale: btw, what happend to your nick, tseng?
<Ornedan> gnomefreak: That was why I made the test account
<gnomefreak> Ornedan: file a bug and it will be looked at after release (might be best way)
<Nafallo> ah, nice. GPLv2 for unrar.
<Nafallo> baah, we have to look closer _after_ release :-)
<gnomefreak> pick 6-7 or so people to look over the liencses after release and decide if they can be promoted for feisty?
<Nafallo> something like that.
<lmierzej> do you know if egdy is going to be released on time?
<dholbach> you can help testing the cd images to make it be released on time :)
<joejaxx> :)
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
<lmierzej> right :) I'm just curious...
<dholbach> we're just in the process of building new cds - testing much appreciated
<jsgotangco> go edgy go
<dholbach> tfheen will announce them in #ubuntu-devel
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bhale> siretart: i changed it, shrug
<Ornedan> gnomefreak: Ok. I'll attach the Eclipse log to the bug report. Anything else?
<gnomefreak> Ornedan: just explain the issue and what you have tried
<Ornedan> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/68185 <- Done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68185 in eclipse "Error on start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<joejaxx> Today Is The Big Day
<Nafallo> is it? for what?
<joejaxx> Edgy
<joejaxx> 8 hours left
<Nafallo> what about it?
<joejaxx> well for the uk rather
<Nafallo> edgy have been here for months now :-)
<Nafallo> since june or so
<jsgotangco> haha
<joejaxx> Nafallo: not the final :)
<Nafallo> well, that's 6.10 then
<jsgotangco> since last week, our builds are pretty much "final"
<Nafallo> and that's tomorrow ;-)
<Nafallo> probably 24h left or so..
<joejaxx> jsgotangco: yeah i know i had to dist-upgrade from rc a couple of days ago
<joejaxx> Nafallo: do you all go by GMT?
<bhale> it isnt tied to an exact hour
<bhale> it will be release roughly on the 26th
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> haha i was just wondering
<Nafallo> but they usually are ready around this hour :-)
<joejaxx> :)
<Nafallo> but then comes to pushing and stuff :-P
<Toadstool> good morning
<Nafallo> morning Toadstool
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Nafallo & imbrandon
<phanatic> !seen ivoks
<ubotu> I last saw ivoks (n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks) 1h 21m 9s ago, quiting: "leaving"
<Amaranth> imbrandon: Can I have what you've got so far for beryl packages?
<luisbg> hello all, anybody alive?
<LaserJock> what's up luisbg ?
<luisbg> hey LaserJock
<luisbg> are you a motu?
<LaserJock> yes
<luisbg> great!
<luisbg> i'm really interested in being part of the motu community
<luisbg> but as a newbie I'm a little bit confused
<luisbg> do you know what I can do to help as a starting point to start learning?
<luisbg> anything needed to be done you know of
<luisbg> suitable for a starter
<LaserJock> well, right now is a bit difficult because we are frozen to release Edgy
<LaserJock> have you seen the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<Amaranth> LaserJock: You pinged me or something yesterday, remember why? :)
<luisbg> LaserJock, I have taken a look over it... thought I would read it deeply when I do my first package
<luisbg> so when the universe is frozen to release a new version... there is no work in packages for the next one?
<luisbg> or the work is mainly in getting it to be stable 100%? (which I guess is no task for a newbie)
<LaserJock> no, the repositories for feisty aren't open yet
<luisbg> when will they be open?
<LaserJock> I would think in around a week
<luisbg> cool
<LaserJock> in the mean time you can look at bugs
<LaserJock> that is a very valuable service
<LaserJock> and can give you an entry point into packaging
<LaserJock> some important bugs we are working on now are at http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy
<luisbg> it says there are no open bugs
<LaserJock> luisbg: sorry that was the wrong link, you want http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a
<luisbg> no problem
<luisbg> cool!
<luisbg> may I address you if I have any doubts when I'm trying to fix one of the bugs of the list?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> #ubuntu-motu in general is pretty helpful too :-)
<luisbg> LaserJock, LOL awesome
<luisbg> where are you from btw?
<luisbg> in 10 minutes I will try to aboard the cinepaint (unmet dependencies) bug
<LaserJock> luisbg: Reno, Nevada, USA
<luisbg> nice, i'm from spain
<cbx33> how to access the latest changelog entry of a pacakge from the net?
<cbx33> is it possible?
<cbx33> without downloading the entire source pacakge
<Nafallo> cbx33: launchpad has it somewhere.
<Nafallo> cbx33: also you can use the mailing-list archives.
<cbx33> ahh...no way to get it from the apt commands then?
<cbx33> presumably it should be in the diff?
<Nafallo> don't think so.
<Nafallo> you can get it at installtime with apt-listchanges, but that's probably it.
<cbx33> apt-listchanges?
<cbx33> that's not avaialble on my system
<Nafallo> universe
<Nafallo> no, main :-)
<cbx33> ah i see it
<cbx33> thanks Nafallo
<Nafallo> np :-)
<cbx33> hmm....that's not really what I want
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> thank you
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> better than nothing.
<cbx33> I need to get the patest changelog as efficiently as possible...
<cbx33> if it's been packages doccrectly
<cbx33> diff.tar.gz should provide it
<Nafallo> why btw? :-)
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> you'll find out soon
<Nafallo> sounds scary ;-)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> hopefully will be useful
<cbx33> to all MOTU
<Nafallo> penalties if package-updates where broken? ;-)
<Nafallo> s/where/was/
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> not quite
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> morning
<phanatic> morning ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> well, looks like the fixes I had to do this morning will have to wait :)
<ajmitch> hello zul
<jelmer> 'morning ajmitch
<jelmer> ajmitch: Do you have any plans on uploading krb5-auth-dialog to Debian?
<zul> keescook: got any idea what is up with kernel.org it seems slow
<ajmitch> jelmer: yeah, I probably will, as well as some other stuff I've done lately
<keescook> zul: we're getting pounded from the FC6 release
<zul> keescook: ah...stupid fedora
<ajmitch> keescook: simple, just remove it from the mirror
<keescook> and we also share bandwidth with a firefox mirror too
<keescook> ajmitch: heh.  :)
<keescook> zul: the main issue is we're likely out of apache child slots what with all the long-running http connections for isos and stuff.  :(
<ajmitch> I wish I could grab a cd image or two to keep dholbach happy :)
<dholbach> hehe
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
* ajmitch has no time to do testing in the next 12 hours
<zul> secrets and lies
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch kicks ISP
<ajmitch> I ought to be on the faster DSL plan now
<ajmitch> but no...
<Plug> not yet
<Plug> you ought to be on it "sometime after 26 Oct"
<ajmitch> Plug: figures
<ajmitch> probably waiting on telecom to move on it
<ajmitch> I should know not to trust the original mail maxnet sent me
<beligum> Hi all, anyone care to review ScreenKast (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3140) and libinstrudeo (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3125) ??
<Amaranth> beligum: universe is frozen for edgy
<crimsun> (everything's frozen, tbh)
<beligum> I know
<LaserJock> crimsun: do you know the actual time for the freeze?
<crimsun> it froze a while ago
<LaserJock> no, like frozen frozen
<LaserJock> for the release
<dholbach> it's -243C frozen now
<LaserJock> my email isn't working so I can't see if I got an email from katie
<crimsun> you should have gotten a deferred accept.
<dholbach> or the server formerly known as katie :-)
<dholbach> service
<crimsun> meaning ACCEPTED but required distro manager approval
<LaserJock> dholbach: heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 'actual time' for release is when the scripts to publish the images are run
<ajmitch> & edgy is flicked to released in LP
<crimsun> "the button"
<ajmitch> LaserJock: universe is really really frozen now
<ajmitch> & has been for ~12 hours, since mdz said "no more!"
<LaserJock> ok :(
<ajmitch> sorry
* ajmitch also had things that'll have to go into -updates
<luisbg> hey LaserJock, had to stop reading the package guide to make dinner
<ajmitch> dholbach: we need to agree soon on proper procedures for SRU - I think the current suggestions may be hard
<dholbach> it's still in the "suggestions" stage
<dholbach> but nobody stepped up to formalize a suggestion since our meeting
<ajmitch> dholbach: that's what I mean - either another meeting or we can discuss it on the list now that we have nothing better to do ;)
<luisbg> when there is a bug of "unmet dependencies" does the package has to be redone, or just changed the dependencies?
* ajmitch might as well write something up tonight
<ajmitch> luisbg: it means it can't be installed for some reason - reasons vary from needing rebuilt, to having stuff changed
<dholbach> ajmitch: we need more suggestions and plans before we have a meeting again
<dholbach> ajmitch: discussing a procedure without having concrete proposals doesn't hepl
<ajmitch> dholbach: hence why I said I'd write up some proposal
<dholbach> ahhh! :-(
<dholbach> :-)
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> sorry - I've been testing too many cds today
* dholbach has gone around the twist
<ajmitch> it's ok
* ajmitch is not at his computer at home, so can't test CDs :(
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | REVU is available again for now | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Edgy frozen: All further uploads need to be for edgy-updates or when feisty opens
* ajmitch needs to think of something else to put there
* dholbach thanks siretart, slomo and ajmitch for taking care of n+1 UVF requests this time around
<dholbach> you guys ROCK
<ajmitch> dholbach: not that I did much :)
<dholbach> you did :)
<LaserJock> oh man
<LaserJock> my department server is currently running in a Knoppix CD
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why!?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: impressive
<LaserJock> hard drive crashed or something
<LaserJock> it's been down for 1 1/2 days
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<LaserJock> the poor sysadmin is working hard to figure out what happened
<LaserJock> but grub no longer works
<LaserJock> so he shifted the department website to another server
<LaserJock> and is using knoppix to get at his backup tapes
<LaserJock> but this stinks not having any email
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-26
<rmjb> wow ajmitch, you probably don't sleep
<bhale> he is on the other side of the world from the rest of us
<ajmitch> rmjb: huh?
<rmjb> every time I'm on you're on...
<ajmitch> well yes, it's called not disconnecting the irc client
<zul> besides ajmitch is a weirdo
<rmjb> I should try that...
<rmjb> I should try that too...
<ajmitch> zul: yes, so?
<zul> just saying
<LaserJock> bah, he's not weird
<LaserJock> he just like the rest of us :-)
<zul> you are saying that im weird?
<LaserJock> yes
<Nafallo> hehe
<zul> LaserJock: oh ok...
<Nafallo> what a discussion :-)
<rmjb> feels like home
<LaserJock> zul: come on dude, anybody that *volunteers* to maintain Xen and kernels stuff has got to be a few card short of a full deck ;-)
<zul> LaserJock: heh thats what my wife says
<ajmitch> LaserJock: 52?
<LaserJock> zul: how is the wife, btw?
<zul> 52.55555555555
<zul> LaserJock: shes good, baby is good she had morning sickness this morning
<zul> find out the sex on monday hopefully
<LaserJock> zul: when is the ETA?
<zul> and shes whiney :)
<zul> Marchish
<LaserJock> cool
<zul> yeah havent started to freak out yet
<zul> that reminds brb...need to reboot
* LaserJock guesses Xen will need to be in good shape for Feisty before March :-)
<ajmitch> due a bit before release time..
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course it will be
<zul> heh yeah..
<zul> brb
<ajmitch> welcome back, zul
<zul> thanks..
<zul> damn kernel
<zul> LaserJock: yeah so everything is cool
<LaserJock> zul: shhh, that's your bread and butter ;-)
<rmjb> am I a MOTU Hopeful or a MOTU Wannabe?
<ajmitch> rmjb: either
<ajmitch> there's not exactly any set title :)
<rmjb> there's not process with stages then...
<rmjb> s/not/no/
<rmjb> ok
<ajmitch> the process is that you become a member, then a motu, then if you have far too much spare time, a core dev
<LaserJock> zul: ok, realistically how hard is it to set up Xen for somebody that doesn't have a clue?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a few minutes
<LaserJock> I wouldn't mind having a Debian install or something
<LaserJock> I'm kinda tired of chroots
<ajmitch> debian is easy to setup
<ajmitch> since you can use xen-tools to set it up with debootstrap
<rmjb> xen uses a vmdk like vmware? or a chroot like filesystem?
* ajmitch usually sets it up with disk images
<ajmitch> or LVM
<zul> yep couple of minutes
<ajmitch> hardest part is setting up the kernel in grub
<ajmitch> which is copy & paste
<LaserJock> ok, well this might show my complete ignorance here
<LaserJock> how does the networking work?
<zul> it uses a bridge network
<LaserJock> and can the different installs (domains?) share files?
<ajmitch> only via a network filesystem like nfs at the moment, afaik
<zul> share files as in how?
<ajmitch> I don't think the host fs stuff is there yet
<zul> cow?
<ajmitch> or like that.. :)
<LaserJock> so it's really like a virtual machine
<LaserJock> i.e. I could ssh to the host
<ajmitch> it really is virtualisation, yes :)
<ajmitch> no chroot-like stuff
<LaserJock> you have to remember I'm a chemist
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> as if that's an excuse..
<LaserJock> an experimental chemist
<ajmitch> you're a MOTU
<LaserJock> I suppose
<ajmitch> we expect great things of you
<LaserJock> that doesn't mean I know everything though ;p
<ajmitch> none of us do
* Fujitsu isn't so sure about ajmitch, though.
<ajmitch> if we did, we'd be getting paid a lot more & not be here ;)
<rmjb_> you really wouldn't be here?
<LaserJock> I'd be in Oslo, getting a prize ;-)
<LaserJock> and then I'd settle down in some place in the middle of nowhere Montana with a cluster and a T1
<rmjb_> is there an NMU ( I guess that's Non-Maintainer Update ) policy for MOTUs?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> no
<LaserJock> there isn't any such thing as a NMU in Ubuntu
<ajmitch> since we don't have the same maintainer lock that debian does
<rmjb_> cool
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you got ops in #edubuntu?
<zul> however some people are picky if you touch their packages sometimes
<ajmitch> no
<gnomefreak> someone needs to
* Fujitsu does a Xen upload, and watches zul scream.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you break it, you get the bugs
<gnomefreak> hes working his way around channels
<ajmitch> I noticed
* ajmitch only has ops in a couple of channels
<Fujitsu> The guy who was in -offtopic a while ago?
<ajmitch> probably
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, it is.
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: cyro... hes a troll and has been banned from most channels
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I noticed.
<rmjb_> it's okay to touch a package that's utnubu maintained right? I was told that's just a place holder for debian packages
<Fujitsu> Wow, he made up a custom insult for me!
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes
<Fujitsu> Hahahaha.
<Fujitsu> He's got three onto him.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ajmitch]  by ChanServ
<gnomefreak> grab him here too
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*=Cyorxamp@*.112.21.19.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net]  by ajmitch
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
<tseng> god what a cunt
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<ajmitch> I have to head out now
<Fujitsu> Bye ajmitch.
<rmjb> laters ajmitch
<zul> he is on -bugs now
<gnomefreak> i see
<gnomefreak> cant do nothing
<gnomefreak> waiting for staff to contact me about it
<Fujitsu> He's most pleasant...
<Fujitsu> Damnit.
<Fujitsu> Only three with ops in -bugs.
<Fujitsu> (dholbach, sfllaw, Seveas)
<gnomefreak> seveas is not around
<Fujitsu> We need to get staff onto this, we can't do a thing :(
<gnomefreak> dholbach im guessing is sleeping about now
<gnomefreak> i pinged one
<gnomefreak> waiting for reply :(
<Fujitsu> dholbach won't be up for another 5 or 6 hours... sfllaw similar, and Seveas isn't here...
<zul> http://www.cyorxamp.info/ some call him up and tell him he is gay
<Fujitsu> We've got a big timezone gap :(
<bhale> he would have my # after that
<gnomefreak> can i and still keep my membership lol
<Burgwork> sfflaw should be up and around
<bhale> I would defend you if you came up with something better than "yer gay"
<gnomefreak> bhale: oh im sure i can
<bhale> great
<rmjb> that's probably not his site... unless he's baiting people to contact him
* gnomefreak wonders wth the good of /stats p if they dont respond
<bhale> right
<bhale> this network is crap
<bhale> rewriting the RFC as they see fit
<bhale> keeping you from talking to staff, etc
<Fujitsu> bhale: Can we /please/ try to not start flamewars like this? They always turn into nasty nasty things.. .(although I agree with you on this)
<bhale> Fujitsu: i have been flaming freenode for years
<bhale> Fujitsu: i doubt Ill stop anytime soon
<bhale> meh
<Burgwork> some of this is our own fault
<bhale> the access lists are horrible
<Burgwork> yes
<bhale> particuarly this channel
<Burgwork> they are not clearly updated
<gnomefreak> Burgwork: there was a poll on the ops mailing list about this
<Burgwork> just saw that
<Fujitsu> Wow, a whole 3 people with rights here.
<bhale> er
<bhale> a whole...
<bhale> 128 people
<bhale> with rights
<bhale> op yourself, have fun
<gnomefreak> same in -bugs
<bhale> GO NUTS
<Fujitsu> Chanserv's access list has 3 people.
<bhale> i get fussy when a kid with a script joins and his client ops him automatically
<rmjb> I like FireRabbit's tactic
<Fujitsu> So, can somebody just op themselves here?
<bhale> yes.
<Fujitsu> And in -bugs?
<bhale> shrug
<Fujitsu> No, unfortunately...
<rmjb> BTW there's no showstoppers for Edgy's release tomorrow?
<gnomefreak> we have a staffer in -meeting but hes not doing anything just watching :(
<Fujitsu> rmjb: Not at the moment.
<rmjb> cool, looking forward to it... will be busy in the forums
<Fujitsu> Wouldn't it be nice if we could easily get in contact with the channel of staff?
<bhale> I said that
<bhale> and was called a troll :)
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> You mean by me?
<bhale> yes
<bhale> its all true
<Fujitsu> No, I just advised you against starting the flamewar again... It is true, yes.
<Fujitsu> Similar, but not the same, as calling you a troll :)
<Fujitsu> I think we need to contact the newly formed IRC Council(tm) about getting some reasonable numbers of ops in the channels... Two in -meeting isn't exactly adequate, especially now Seveas isn't around as much.
<Hawkwind> Fujitsu: We're working on it
<bhale> who is Hawkwind / IRC Council
* TheMuso reviews the ops list for #ubuntu-accessibility, but suspects that it won't come under the same attack. But wh knows really.
<bhale> TheMuso: you can list all channels
<bhale> -meeting isnt obvious, either
<Hawkwind> bhale: No.  But I'm an op in #Kubuntu so I know a bit of what's going on with with IRC council
<bhale> is that Ubuntu IRC Council?
<TheMuso> bhale: ?
<bhale> TheMuso: ?
<Hawkwind> bhale: It's the IRC Council for all *Ubuntu related channels
<bhale> TheMuso: security by obscurity is bupkis
<bhale> oh
<bhale> the people who will beat me up when i say naughty things
<TheMuso> bhale: I know one can list all channels, but I am simply reviewing the list for #ubuntu-accessibility to ponder whether I should grant ops to more people. But at the same time, suspect that that channel won't come under attack.
<TheMuso> But who knows.
<bhale> as I said, if your garden variety troll can find -meeting and -bugs
<bhale> he can find anything
<luisbg> to become a motu do I need to get my gpg signed by a member of the community in person like in debian?
<Burgwork> TheMuso: all ubuntu channels will get hit
<bhale> luisbg: yes.
<luisbg> bhale, in a near future I would need to find a motu close to where I live then
<bhale> where is that
<luisbg> madrid, spain
<bhale> hm
<TheMuso> Burgwork: Can you be sure of that?
<Burgwork> TheMuso: yes
<bhale> jordim is in Vilanova
<Burgwork> 100%
<bhale> thats rather far i think
<TheMuso> Righto.
<luisbg> bhale, a little yes
<Fujitsu> luisbg: Generally there'll be a Debian Developer in a fairly close vicinity to everywhere.
<Burgwork> there are lots of debian users in spain
<TheMuso> I'll keep a look out then.
<bhale> oh
<bhale> Beowulf
<luisbg> Fujitsu, can the key be signed by a debian developer too?
<bhale> [oftc]  -|-  ircname  : Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo
<bhale> look him up
<luisbg> anybody knows if emails can be gpg signed in gmail?
<bhale> no
<LaserJock> I was a motu before my key was signed by an Ubuntu/Debian person :-)
<luisbg> LaserJock, hey! cool to know
<LaserJock> although I would certainly think it is better to have a Ubuntu person do it
<luisbg> but anyway... there is enough time until that happens to get to know someone close
<LaserJock> I don't know that there is a exact rule on who has to sign your key
<bhale> biglumber.com
<LaserJock> I find gpg keys kind of weird that way.
<luisbg> it's the weird point of the system
<luisbg> how to get a good system to trust the keyrings
<luisbg> LaserJock, may I query you?
<LaserJock> sure
<bhale> luisbg: i really think jsogo@debian.org is in Madrid
<bhale> Beowulf on irc
<bhale> he is in spain
<luisbg> writing it down for a future reference
<bhale> ok
<bhale> he could at least tell you other people in the area i guess
<luisbg> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> getting a DD to sign your key is nice
<bhale> I got Manoj
<LaserJock> I had to wait until Paris for that
<bhale> who is gpg KING
<bhale> his signature is like gold
<LaserJock> yeah, I got mako, dholbach, and ogra in Paris
* Nafallo got Mithrandir and Simira :-)
<bhale> ihave those
<bhale> its like trading cards
<bhale> gotta get em all
<Fujitsu> I was thinking that.
<bhale> i need a LaserJock
<LaserJock> haha
* Nafallo needs to catch more ;-)
* Fujitsu needs... something :(
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: sex? ;-)
<luisbg> for some reason... once you create yourself a gpg key... you crave getting it signed a lot of times
<TheMuso> Seems our pal Cyorxamphas moved elsewhere.
<LaserJock> well, Nevada isn't exactly the easiest place to find Ubuntu devs to sign your key :/
<Fujitsu> Ha. Ha.
<luisbg> LaserJock, no ubuntu devs in the middle of the desert
* Fujitsu really needs to locate someone for signing :(
<luisbg> night all!
<Fujitsu> Bye, luisbg.
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<LaserJock> how interesting, I was just reading the comments on Mark's latest blog post
<ajmitch> yeah..
<LaserJock> many people don't like the brown
<LaserJock> is that they are used to blue or what?
<LaserJock> I don't get it
<ajmitch> brown just isn't appealing to many people
<LaserJock> I think it's a whole lot better then the blue
<LaserJock> I guess that's just me though
* ajmitch has blue on his desktop
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I agree, I much prefer it to blue.
<LaserJock> blue is pretty generic to me
<ajmitch> I like generic
<LaserJock> to bright as well a lot of the time
<ajmitch> I don't like a UI that's in my face
<LaserJock> the brown is relaxing to me
<LaserJock> not generic as in boring
<Fujitsu> It's relaxing, easy on the eyes, generally pleasant.
<LaserJock> generic as in expected
<ajmitch> I think I'll give up on #ubuntu & #ubuntu+1 for awhile
<LaserJock> hehe
<naer_dinsul> So, just out of curiosity, is Firefox 2.0 going to be in Edgy?
<Fujitsu> naer_dinsul: It is.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: We need all hands on deck!
<naer_dinsul> Fujitsu: Ah...  Beautiful.  Okay.  Thank you.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll be in my bunker coding for feisty
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Fujitsu> Do we know when Feisty will open?
* ajmitch needs to get some stuff whipped up in the next week to bring to MV
<ajmitch> no, and don't you dare ask in -devel
<ajmitch> let people rest for a few days
<Fujitsu> Never!
<Burgwork> bleeding hell
<Burgwork> edgy is not even out yet
<LaserJock> I think fiesty will open up as soon as edgy is released
<Fujitsu> Pfft, it's frozen, close enough :P
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It was about a week last time.
<LaserJock> but the toolchain will take a week or 2 to iron out
<LaserJock> I'm probably not going to upload anything until after Mountain View
<Fujitsu> <jbroome> is feisty out yet?  is it usable?
<naer_dinsul> Well, for what it's worth, I really appreciate the work you guys do on Ubuntu.
<LaserJock> haha
* ajmitch has packages already built & waiting for feisty to open
<ajmitch> I even got bug reports requesting packages be done before feisty opens
<rmjb> I just saw that signing the gpg key thing... what will I do? I'm in Trinidad in the caribbean!
<Fujitsu> rmjb: There's probably a Debian Developer there somewhere :)
* ajmitch looks
<rmjb> I doubt, we're small, less than 1.5 mill people... but if you know of any I'd be greatfull
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, DDs can find other DDs.
<ajmitch> nope, no DDs recorded there
<rmjb> it's Trinidad and Tobago
<ajmitch> rmjb: being small doesn't mean much
<rmjb> yeah I know, we're not big on the open source either
<ajmitch> I'm in a city of ~120K people, there are 5 or 6 DDs herer\
<rmjb> gov't get's wooed by MS
<Fujitsu> Impressive, ajmitch.
<rmjb> wow, that's a good percentage in that city
<ajmitch> at least as many more elsewhere in NZ
<ajmitch> another kiwi just got his debian.org account last week or so
<Burgwork> ajmitch: how many in Victoria?
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure how many there are in Melbourne (with 3 million people), but there are quite a few.
<rmjb> there's no way to get it signed without meeting someone face to face?
* rmjb is new to gpg also
<Fujitsu> rmjb: Not properly, no. But having it signed isn't a strict requirement.
<ajmitch> Burgwork: victoria, australia?
<Burgwork> ajmitch: no, here
* ajmitch has to pull up his password so he can use the full search
<rmjb> who knows... if I get into this thing a lot I might make a trip to some OS conference...
<rmjb> which is a tall order since I hardly travel
<rmjb> anyone listens to tllts?
<ajmitch> 58 DDs in Canada
<Fujitsu> How many in total, ajmitch?
* ajmitch sees 1 other in victoria so far, a couple in vancouver
<rmjb> cool they have the creator of slackware on tonite
<ajmitch> Number of entries matched: 1481
<Burgwork> any edgy users have gobby installed?
<ajmitch> so a lot more DDs than ubuntu developers :)
<ajmitch> 12 in NZ
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: No, but I can install it if you wish.
<Burgwork> no worries
<Fujitsu> Is there an issue with it?
<Burgwork> no, I need something off a gobby server
<Fujitsu> It's no problem for me to install it.
<ajmitch> so, "are we there yet?"
<Burgwork> Fujitsu: got it?
* Nafallo installs as well
<Fujitsu> Oh, you want me to do it? The `no worries' made it sound like you didn't need it >_>
<Nafallo> will need it for UDS anyway ;-)
<Burgwork> yep
<Fujitsu> OK, what did you want me to grab?
<Fujitsu> (sorry)
<Burgwork> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies
<Burgwork> connect to the gobby server on that machine
<Burgwork> page
<Burgwork> and pull UWN 19 off and copy to the wiki
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue19
<Burgwork> here
<Burgwork> overwrite anything on that page
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> Uploading...
<Fujitsu> Done.
<Burgwork> Fujitsu: you rock! thanks
<Nafallo> hehe. nice bug Burgwork :-)
<Burgwork> stuck on dapper here at work
<Fujitsu> No problem, sorry it took so long, but there was a bit of a misunderstanding :)
<Burgwork> and gobby changed their protocol
<Fujitsu> Yup.
* ajmitch needs to start playing with 2.6.19
<StevenK> Burgwork: /EditingPolicies has a gobby .deb for dapper.
<Burgwork> doesn't work and I need to get this out quickly
<StevenK> Ah. Perhaps that should be noted on the page? :-P
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee, StevenK
* StevenK waves
* Fujitsu runs away from Hobbsee, and greets StevenK.
<Burgwork> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, StevenK
<Hobbsee> hi Burgwork
<rmjb> wow Burgwork you don't waste time, I got my UWN already
<Burgwork> I rarely do
* ajmitch looks for the new UWN
<ajmitch> I'll have to work harder, wasn't mentioned in this one ;)
<Burgwork> heh
<rmjb> 2 or 3 issues ago was all Scot James Remnant!
<Burgwork> best way to get into UWN: upload some new upstream
<ajmitch> Burgwork: hard to do in freeze time
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> hence why the edgy section was so small
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I haven't been in since UVF :P
<Burgwork> oh, upload something interesting
<Burgwork> given I do the edgy stuff,that means something desktop-y
<ajmitch> new f-spot for feisty? :)
<Burgwork> instant love
<ajmitch> how about some userspace xen stuff?
<Burgwork> yep
<ajmitch> or network auth?
<Burgwork> please, I can't take it anymore
<ajmitch> cool, I've got packages ready for the above :)
<Burgwork> I wish launchpad would spit out a "weekly spec report"
<Burgwork> new specs, changes in specs, etc.
<ajmitch> the short time until feature freeze will quickly disappear
<LaserJock> I wish launchpad would spit out anything useful, j/k
<Burgwork> or for that matter, some better bug reporting stuff
<ajmitch> especially with holidays in the middle
<ajmitch> Burgwork: post the bugstats page
<Burgwork> I do
<ajmitch> you had it in #17 or so
<ajmitch> ah, it's still there?
<Burgwork> carthiks one?
<Burgwork> I think it got left off the template
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that's the only useful bugstats I know of
<Fujitsu> LP is really useful for bug stats.
<ajmitch> nope, it's in #19
<Burgwork> template fixed, at any rate
<ajmitch> Open (16935) - 363 extra open bugs since UWN #18
<ajmitch> that's so great to see...
<ajmitch> we're losing badly on the bug front
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah like the MOTU Science bug situation :/
<Burgwork> yes, yes we are
<LaserJock> I've almost got a LP parser for MOTU Science done
<Burgwork> LaserJock: I don't know that the ubuntustudio people know what they are in for
<Fujitsu> \o/ LaserJock
<Fujitsu> I tried to write one...
<Fujitsu> But the LP HTML is terrible.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why do you need to screen-scrape?
<LaserJock> my only problem is I'm getting "all bugs ever reported" rather then "all open bugs"
<LaserJock> ajmitch: because I can't think of anything better
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Because LP's bug contact listing is terrible?
<ajmitch> the wonders of proprietary solutions
<Burgwork> is malone better than bugzilla?
<ajmitch> Burgwork: define 'better'
<LaserJock> I've never used bugzilla
* Fujitsu hugs debbugs.
<Burgwork> 2 years later
* Burgwork sighs
<Burgwork> given the number of python hackers in the Ubuntu community...
<ajmitch> malone is almost as slow
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Want to read our bug list?
<Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+packagebugs
<ajmitch> and that was because bugzilla was loading a 1MB .js on each page load
<Fujitsu> Burgwork: exactly... It's annoying being held back like this :(
<Burgwork> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-directory/+packagebugs
<Burgwork> we are far more sane
<ajmitch> Burgwork: just you wait
<Burgwork> yep
<LaserJock> Burgwork: bah, sissies
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: wait until I upload my crack
<ajmitch> nasty python code that I wrote ;)
<Fujitsu> You'd think Malone would be sane enough to, you know... <caps>have an option to hide packages without bugs</caps>?
<ajmitch> then the bug count will explode
<Burgwork> I do like the package<-->team stuff
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, even that would be a big help
<Burgwork> but there are just so many things that malone still sucks at, and has sucked at for 2 years
<Fujitsu> But nooo, `Use +subscribedbugs' is all they can say.
<Fujitsu> Of course, that doesn't actually list 90% of the bugs.
<ajmitch> Burgwork: I'm sure we can find other packages to add to the list for -directory
<LaserJock> I think LP as a whole is cool because of having specs, teams, translation, bugs, code in one place
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: yes, but LP as a whole also sucks in every way.
<Burgwork> ajmitch: we looked at all the packages with ldap and nss in their name
<Burgwork> cool idea, bad implementation
<StevenK> LaserJock: s/bugs, code/bugs/
<LaserJock> StevenK: I was talking about bazaar.launchpad.net
<LaserJock> it's pretty handy
<Fujitsu> Malone's interface is also soooo intuitive.
<ajmitch> Burgwork: maybe add things like samba to the list
<LaserJock> but yes, this little +subscribedbugs was pretty bad
<Burgwork> you click the link and you get a popout!
<Burgwork> ajmitch: will do
<LaserJock> I thought we were keeping track of bugs
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: as did I...
<LaserJock> and I missed a ton
<Fujitsu> Then I noticed that TeX alone was meant to have that many bugs.
<LaserJock> I still don't know many of them
<LaserJock> I could have fixed some before the freeze
<Fujitsu> Exactly. LP is a hazard, and causes things to not get fixed :(
<LaserJock> but like I said, Malone is the only bug tracker I know so I don't know how bad it is
<Burgwork> ajmitch: done
<Fujitsu> It can't be that hard for the LP people to add a `show only packages that have bugs' button.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I just give up & subscribe to ubuntu-bugs
<ajmitch> Burgwork: thanks
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That doesn't help for existing, untouched bugs.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: mutt's filtering & procmail can be more useful for me
<Burgwork> if a team is getting bugs, there is no way for team members to say "no bugs thanks"
<LaserJock> Burgwork: what are you saying?
<ajmitch> Burgwork: only by setting a mailing list as the contact address
<Burgwork> I am a member of the laptop testing team
<ajmitch> and then having the team members unsubscribe from the mailing list
<Burgwork> but I don't want to receive laptopo bugs
<Burgwork> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-laptop/+packagebugs
<Burgwork> because of this
<ajmitch> if the team has no contact address, all team members get the mail
<Burgwork> acpi-support and gnome-power-manager
<LaserJock> we have a mailing list thank goodness for MOTU Science
<LaserJock> that's how I figured out about this +subscribedbugs problem
<Fujitsu> I'm quite sure all these things would have been implemented ages ago had it been open... :(
<Burgwork> yep
<ajmitch>  35 bugs against acpi that probably shouldn't be there
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I noticed it when I looked at various TeX packages and discovered they had on their own more than the total number on +subscribedbugs.
<Burgwork> ok, I am off
<Fujitsu> Bye, Burgwork.
<ajmitch> bye Burgwork
<LaserJock> I don't blame the LP guys though
<LaserJock> they are doing a lot of work
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sabdfl?
<LaserJock> I had some good conversations with bradb about Malone in Paris
<ajmitch> hello cr3
<LaserJock> ajmitch: basically
<ajmitch> yeah, I've talked with bradb a few times
<LaserJock> the thing is that Malone is basically just bradb
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> Really?
<LaserJock> with some help from others
<LaserJock> but basically
<LaserJock> so he's working his butt off trying to help developers out
<LaserJock> but he's only got so many hours in a day
<Fujitsu> Of course, our chances in a battle against SABDFL are zero...
<LaserJock> I wouldn't say zero
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and BjornT
<LaserJock> but close :-)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: right
<joejaxx> anyone know what gnome uses for it onscreen volume control?
<LaserJock> although it seemed like bradb was doing most of the interface and feature stuff
* Fujitsu forks, and creates $#*%launchpadbuntu.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: :(
<cr3> ajmitch: ahoy
<rmjb> hey, does http://podcasts.engaget.com freeze up anyone else's firefox2?
* ajmitch looks at what they have to do on the release checklist still
<Fujitsu> My Firefox is still quite liquid, rmjb.
<rmjb> hmm...
<rmjb> every time it freezes for me... must be that flash 9
<zul> heh i guess everyone is taking the night off on -devel
<bhale> yes
<bhale> good idea , too\
<bhale> stupid UK keyboard gar
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bhale> hello bd
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu, ajmitch, bhale
<bhale> im last?
<bhale> sigh.
<bddebian> You're too slow apparently ;-P
<bhale> I'll show you slow
<rmjb> Fujitsu: you don't have flash 9 beta installed right?
<Fujitsu> rmjb: Correct.
<Fujitsu> It is proprietary.
<rmjb> cool, just want to make sure before I file my bug on malone
<rmjb> :)
<Fujitsu> I had it installed for a short time to test imbrandon's package, however.
<Fujitsu> rmjb: If it's about Flash 9, it'll get rejected within seconds.
<rmjb> yeah I know... I saw ajmitch try to find a nice way to reject a flash 9 bug
<FunnyLookinHat> How do I find the specific package info using apt-cache ?
<bhale> someday ajmitch will learn from me
<bhale> and stop being nice
<FunnyLookinHat> for say, a package called libclucene0
<bhale> apt-cache show libclucene0
<bhale> apt-cache showsrc libclucene0
<zul> ajmitch has a bit of a mean streak in him
<rmjb> bhale: isn't nice in the code of conduct? I heard the patterned it after canada
<rmjb> kidding
<bhale> ha ha
<zul> uh huh
<ajmitch> bhale: I try
<bhale> trying to dist upgrade this month-old laptop
<bhale> not doing that hot
<bhale> mirrror speeds
<ajmitch> yeah, I should dist-upgrade some of my edgy stuff sometime
<pcniatic> when those feisty opens?
<ajmitch> once I care
<ajmitch> pcniatic: when it's there, not a moment before
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :D
<ajmitch> ie we don't know
<pcniatic> i mean, when does feisty opens?
<ajmitch> see above
<zul> my magic 8 ball says ask again later
<Hobbsee> pcniatic: 2 months after the last person asked
<ajmitch> edgy isn't even out, let people have some rest :)
<pcniatic> je, ok
<zul> thats another kitten we are going to have to kill
<bhale> it will be a few weeks possibly
<lophyte> feisty opens at MV, I believe
<Fujitsu> I bet it will open after LP goes down for 24 hours for mass data migration. They seem to like that.
<bhale> before general uploading
<ajmitch> lophyte: maybe
<lophyte> or not long after I'd assume
<ajmitch> lophyte: it's been open before the conference in the past
<lophyte> ah
<ajmitch> so that we could have fun throwing mono at the buildds & watching what sticks
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<bhale> amd64 was the wild west back then
<joejaxx> lophyte: hey! :D
<lophyte> joejaxx: heya :)
<joejaxx> lophyte: its my fellow catalyst
<lophyte> haha
<lophyte> how's it going?
<joejaxx> it is going well
<joejaxx> just trying to get some packages ready for when fawn universe is ready
<lophyte> cool
<LaserJock> hola bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> darn, department server still down
<LaserJock> that must be one big mess
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<LaserJock> maybe I shouldn't use my school mail for Ubuntu stuff
<Fujitsu> Why not?
<LaserJock> it's one thing if I can't get Department announcements
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you could always create a gmail account
<LaserJock> but I *need* my Ubuntu mail ;-)
<joejaxx> that never goes down
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I have one, but it doesn't handle LP mail very well
<Fujitsu> But Gmail is run by Google.
<LaserJock> I have pretty good access generally to my school server
<LaserJock> and unlimited space
<LaserJock> but it's been down for 2 days now
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: and the internet goes through backbones...who knows what they are doing
<LaserJock> I could use laserjock.us I guess
<ajmitch> just like I could use my domain for mail as well
<ajmitch> but I'd not want to expose my blog to the world ;)
<Fujitsu> You said you didn't have one, ajmitch!
* Fujitsu googles.
<LaserJock> I'm going to have to figure you hide that and put it on planet :-)
<LaserJock> *where you
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: correct
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nothing to add
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hehe, maybe I'll make one up for you
<LaserJock> motuslacker.blogger.com ;-)
<ajmitch> sounds like me
<ajmitch> the motu who does nothing
* bddebian hasn't done shit in weeks :'-(
<LaserJock> me neither on Universe
<ajmitch> bddebian: still far more than me
<bddebian> ajmitch: I doubt that
* Fujitsu has done horrifically little since being given upload rights, due to stupid exams.
<Fujitsu> (and the various freezes)
* ajmitch only had a few uploads this last week
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I understand, mine is work :-(
<rmjb> good night everyone
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* Fujitsu grumbles.
<Fujitsu> Who updated the website with a `6.10 is released' image?
<FunnyLookinHat> No clue...
<FunnyLookinHat> But the mirrors aren't ready yet  : )
<Fujitsu> Exactly.
<FunnyLookinHat> ;)
<Fujitsu> People in #ubuntu are saying it has been released, though,
<ajmitch> sigh
<FunnyLookinHat> doesn't really matter...  the RC is practically the real deal.. with a few updates packages
<ajmitch> it does matter when the release images aren't there yet
<FunnyLookinHat> Well I mean, yes it does...  but in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal.
<Fujitsu> It does matter.
<Fujitsu> WE have enough people in #ubuntu asking when it will be released, without people saying WHERE ARE THE IMAGES OMG?
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: I love cdimages.ubuntu.com, I wish I could live there.
<Fujitsu> I can't imagine the datacentre would be particularly pleasant to live in :P
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: ever seen Lawnmower man?
<Fujitsu> No...
<Nafallo> !seen Lawnmower
<ubotu> I last saw Lawnmower (n=Wim@mowbot.xs4all.nl) 7h 27s ago, quiting: "Leaving."
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: http://imdb.com/title/tt0104692/
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: terrible movie, but put that and Tron in a bottle, shake it, and you have the meaning behind the word "live" :)
<Fujitsu> Heheh/
<FunnyLookinHat> Oh man watching #ubuntu is quite entertaining  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> This was just spammed in #ubuntu....   http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/releases.ubuntu.com/.pool/ubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.iso       say goodbye to that mirror.
<Fujitsu> Oooh dear.
<ajmitch> FunnyLookinHat: no big problem
<ajmitch> only an issue if images are recreated & pushed to mirrors due to critical bugs
* Fujitsu watches it get Slashdotted like Firefox 2 did, a day early.
<TheMuso> Heh. Everybody is getting over excited.
<TheMuso> I'll wait till its pushed to mirrors, as I'm low on quota this month.
<TheMuso> Or for the remainder of the month.
<minghua_> stupid network...
* Nafallo will just rsync his rc to final and start seeding later :-)
<Fujitsu> You know, they /could/ announce it, rather than leaving it for people to find and go hysterical about as it's pushed to mirrors...
<LaserJock> I'm already running 6.10 so ... ;-)
<Fujitsu> I think most of us here are :)
<lotusleaf> Fujitsu: embrace the chaos
<LaserJock> just make sure you dist-upgrade before they release
<LaserJock> as archive.u.c will be really slow for a while :-)
<Nafallo> LaserJock: good point.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I waited to long for dapper
<LaserJock> and had to wait a while to dist-upgrade
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> I'm up-to-date :-)
* Fujitsu watches mono fly past.
<Toadstool> 'evening
<kkubasik> hey, anyone here ever packaed a project that used scons for its build tool?
<StevenK> Once.
<kkubasik> how was that?
* StevenK tries to control the twitching.
<Toadstool> scons is evil :p
<kkubasik> slash, what was it, im probably gonna pirate your rules if that's alright
<StevenK> kkubasik: Does that answer your question? :-P
<kkubasik> haha, agreed, just suck it up and use make
<kkubasik> StevenK: plenty
<kkubasik> ;)
<StevenK> That's it, wengophone.
<Nafallo> huga. users won't listen I guess.
<Fujitsu> That icto* guy?
<Nafallo> everyone :-P
<Nafallo> hehe
<Kagou> hi
<seaLne> hmm revu just removed me for excessive mail bounces, maybe if it didn't send mails with a score of over 20 they wouldn't be rejected at mta
<Lathiat> heh
<LaserJock> I wonder if I should do a "I'm running 6.10 right now" in #ubuntu
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: why not, some people are flirting with ubotu they're so desperate in there
<lotusleaf> <ArrenLex> ubotu: r u hott? ;)
<Lathiat> lol
<LaserJock> ok, I'm off for the night. Happy Edgy Day people!
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: happy edgy day!
<Fujitsu> Wooohooo, 6.10 has been dugg! Lovely preempting.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Where?
<crimsun> we totally need those .pool links replaced with 4.10 downloads. That'll learn 'em.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Yeah.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Front page, 2nd or so post.
<Fujitsu> (even with .pool links!)
<Fujitsu> Can we have a big red `Hands off if you're not a mirror' title on that page for Feisty, please?
* StevenK wonders if his Firefox 1.5.0.7 will want to download 2.0 now.
<StevenK> (On Winders)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Not yet, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> They said they'll make it a suggest an update in a couple of weeks, I think.
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> FeistyFawn: You forgot EdgyEft in the middle.
<Nafallo> and Dapper is still supported ;-)
<imbrandon> moins fellas
<DBO> moins imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya DBO
* StevenK waves to imbrandon
<sivang> morning motus
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> ugh i thought canonical sponsored the forums ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Why do you bring this up?
<crimsun> he loves pudding.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, becouse it seems they have google ad's now ( and i had to remove the google ad's from buntudot.org once it became "official" )
<Fujitsu> Does it!?
<Fujitsu> Good, good. Even more reason for me to not visit them.
<imbrandon> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=93741   is the link i just clicked, tell me i'm wrong
<crimsun> I don't see one.
<crimsun> oh wait
<crimsun> yes, under Sponsored Links
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> google ads
<cbx33> ewww twice on the same page
<imbrandon> thats a no no afaik , like i said i had to remove them ( per jane siber ) from buntudot.org when it was merged into the fridge
<imbrandon> is there someone i can poke about this? i would rather not see google ad's on offical sites ( or atleaste be told it was intentional and canonical is getting the money not some forum yahoo )
<cbx33> hey guys, got a question, with package dependencies if for example you have a package that depends on another package....and the package you depend on changes.....well I guess I'm trying to say, once a package is built, it is more important to know what the built package depends on rather than the source right?
<imbrandon> huh? i dont quite understand the question heheh
<cbx33> imbrandon, me neither :p
<cbx33> nevermind on that one
<imbrandon> :)
<cbx33> is there a way to get /var/lib/apt/lists for all archs
<crimsun> if B depends on A, then yes, you do need to make sure B remains installable when A changes.
<cbx33> not just the current one you are on for packages?
<cbx33> crimsun, exactly
<crimsun> otherwise you may run into the "unmet dep" issue
<cbx33> but you don't care so much abotu the source right? as the pacakge is already built
<crimsun> you're referring to binaries, not source. You'd have to trigger a rebuild of B's _source_
<crimsun> (but not always)
<cbx33> right
<sivang> oh wawo, seems like Linux World londong has been good fun
<cbx33> but both source and binary can have different dependencies
<cbx33> right?
<StevenK> The only dependencies a source package has are Build-Depends{,-Indep}.
<cbx33> I'm curious how does it figure out what build deps are needed?
<sivang> StevenK: and -Indep being platform independnet build depends ?
<sivang> cbx33: who does? :)
<StevenK> sivang: Correct.
<sivang> cbx33: you mean, how does subtvars get the right build-deps?
<cbx33> yes
<sivang> cbx33: objdump or something
<StevenK> That's magic.
<cbx33> ahhh
<StevenK> sivang: Bullcrap
<cbx33> ok cool
<sivang> StevenK: heh
<sivang> StevenK: it's not?
<StevenK> No.
<StevenK> dpkg-shlibdeps is used
<imbrandon> shlibs
<cbx33> i see
<imbrandon> yea what StevenK said
<StevenK> Library packages provide a shlibs file.
<cbx33> ok....
<sivang> StevenK: ah right, that as well ;)
<sivang> cbx33: essentiall, when folks create lib packages, they 'publish' a file that dpkg-shlibdeps is using to determin which build-deps are neede, I think
<sivang> *essentially
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> right ok next question...
<cbx33> if I'm on a 386 machine
<StevenK> It's stuffed into the DEBIAN directory that ends up in /var/lib/dpkg/info.
<cbx33> I only get package lists for a 386 machine
<cbx33> what if I want to check stuff across all archs?
<StevenK> cbx33: Use madison-lite?
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% madison-lite -s edgy libc6 libc6 | 2.4-1ubuntu12 |          edgy | amd64, i386
* StevenK glares at gnome-terminal.
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<imbrandon> konsole ftw
<imbrandon> heheh
<StevenK> There's supposed to be a line break! I want my line break!
* imbrandon ducks
* StevenK kicks imbrandon in the teeth.
<imbrandon> heh
<sivang> StevenK: I have no DEBIAN in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<StevenK> sivang: The DEBIAN directory is used while building the .deb, it gets sucked into control.tar.gz which is untarred directly into /var/lib/dpkg/info
<sivang> StevenK: right, sorry I thought you meant that DEBIAN gets created there which is obviously non sensical
<StevenK> (A .deb being an ar archive made up of debian-binary, control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz)
* StevenK wonders if he's scared sivang off yet.
<sivang> StevenK: btw, quoting the man page, objdump does play a role there, it just competes with shlibs.default
<cbx33> StevenK, madison-lite complains about not being able to find dists
<sivang> StevenK: you haven't. I know what a .deb is :)
<StevenK> cbx33: Yes, you need to download them, in the tree format.
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> ok
<StevenK> dists/edgy/main/binary-{i386,amd64}/Packages.gz
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i get it now
<StevenK> sivang: Which manual page?
<sivang> StevenK: man dpkg-shlibdeps
<imbrandon> wow amd is promoting the sale of intel chips ( http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/promotions/overdrivecore/ )
<xerxas> Hi all !
<kkubasik> anyone know of a package that really needs to get packaged?
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<minghua> I was going to say that too :-)
<minghua> note some of the software listed there may be already packaged though
<kkubasik> its just odd, because about half of them can't be packaged for liscensing reasons
<minghua> for example I see apache 2.2
<kkubasik> oooo, that might be a good one ;)
<kkubasik> just to REVU right?
<thom> leave apache2.2 alone
<kkubasik> ?
<thom> virtually all the apache maintainers work for canonical
<thom> it's done in debian/unstable, it'll be synced for feisty
<minghua> yeah, when I mention apache 2.2 I mean it's already packaged (at least in Debian)
<thom> it'll be synced into main for feisty
<thom> there are much better things to work on
<ajmitch> kkubasik: well this is a page that random people add stuff to
<ajmitch> it's hardly a comprehensive list of what is needed & not already packaged
<ajmitch> hey thom
<kkubasik> alrighty
<kkubasik> is there a more comprehensive list anywhere? or is it just every man for himself
<ajmitch> no
<xerxas> anyway, developpement of feisty havn't started, right ?
<xerxas> can I start packaging stuff for feisty ?
<ajmitch> yes, you can
<xerxas> is pbuilder for feisty and repos already here ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> just use edgy pbuilder
<xerxas> the work for feisty haven't started yet, right ?
<ajmitch> correct
<ajmitch> since edgy isn't even officially released
<xerxas> yup
<xerxas> :)
<thom> ajmitch: dude.
<thom> right, a2.2 removed from candidates
<minghua> good move
<thom> (given the rules file is 230 lines of reasonably complex make, it's not a suitable package for a newbie anyway)
<luisbg> hello all
<imbrandon> ello
<luisbg> hello imbrandon =)
<pirast> congratulations everyone to the release of ubuntu 6.10 :-)
<kkubasik> oo, my mirror is lagging
<kkubasik> I was hoping to finish syncing the iso's before the official release annoucement
<bhale> hello kkubasik
<kkubasik> so I could serve them readily!
<kkubasik> hey bhale, how's it goin?
<bhale> good, you?
<bhale> didnt get new beagle in
<bhale> might be able to patch the rm thingy
<bhale> in -updates
<kkubasik> yeah, I actaully uploaded a package of it to REVU
<bhale> but the original release notes didnt make it out to be a "major bug" or anything
<bhale> and then i was traveling
<kkubasik> yeah, its actually the next release that is gonna be incredable
<bhale> well, little chance of that
<kkubasik> like a 50-60% drop in memory usage
<kkubasik> next couple of days
<kkubasik> but yeah
<bhale> thunderbird? :)
<bhale> or across the board
<kkubasik> yu[
<kkubasik> across the board
<bhale> hm
<bhale> it might finally be suitable for on-by-default
<kkubasik> like, crusing at about 30 megs right now
<bhale> in that case
<kkubasik> with a full blown 19 backends running
<kkubasik> in debug mode
<bhale> mine has been ~50mb with daemon and helper for a long tim
<bhale> oh, running
<kkubasik> (which was a major part of our memory usage
<kkubasik> )
<bhale> hm
<kkubasik> we always ran in debug so stacktraces would be more useful, but we dropped a few megs just leaving out that one command line switch
<bhale> oh
<bhale> most people with real problems have >30gb home directories
<bhale> mine is big but it is all music
<kkubasik> yeah, im a nice test
<kkubasik> about 25 gigs of source files
<kkubasik> its sends beagle running
<bhale> nice
<ajmitch> kkubasik: btw updates to existing apps generally don't go on REVU
<kkubasik> ooo, ok
<bhale> well he sent me an email, a patch, etc
<bhale> and I didnt respond
<kkubasik> I'm like 3 hours new to this
<bhale> so, my fault
<bhale> was busy
<kkubasik> so just lemme know what im supposed to do
<ajmitch> bhale: I mean for things like gaim & vim which got stuck on revu
<bhale> oh
<ajmitch> which MOTUs won't care for anyway
<bhale> yes, beagle too
<kkubasik> :-/
<kkubasik> sorry
<bhale> kkubasik: there isnt really sponsorship for main
<bhale> most people start off in universe and get promoted
<ajmitch> well there is, in a sense
<kkubasik> feel free to just archive them if need be
<bhale> or have a dedicated sponsor
<ajmitch> which is subscribing ubuntu-main-sponsors to bug reports
<kkubasik> gotcha, its just odd for me, since im kinda a gnome dev
<ajmitch> yeah, updates to stuff generally go as debdiffs on malone
<kkubasik> so the apps I know my way around are mainline gnome
<ajmitch> confusing, i know
<kkubasik> alright, that's cool
<kkubasik> well it makes sense from a bandwidth perspective
<kkubasik> but the new packages I uploaded (tangerine and labyrinth)
<kkubasik> they are ok for REVU?
<ajmitch> and from the perspective of a package already being in generally has bug contacts or people to look at it on malone
<ajmitch> you know that tangerine is being packaged in debian?
<bhale> well, tangerine has a seperate problem
<bhale> i put a package in debian pkg-mono svn some time ago
<ajmitch> generally that upstream need educated about binaries
<bhale> just that it violates policy
<bhale> as it has dll's without source
<ajmitch> yeah
<kkubasik> yeah
<phanatic> good afternoon
<bhale> it should be fixed now, i slapped snorp around
<ajmitch> so technically it'd be illegal for us to even distribute tangerine source from REVU
<ajmitch> "fixed"
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> fixed in what version?
<bhale> i dont have the checkout on this box
<ajmitch> right
<bhale> this is laptop-testing-team
<bhale> he told me it was fixed
<kkubasik> tangerine 0.3 ships no binaries
<ajmitch> kkubasik: you're wrong, sorry
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/tangerine-0610260335/tangerine-0.3.0/deps/
<bhale> heh.
<ajmitch> Nini.dll
<ajmitch> log4net.dll
<bhale> we have nini and log4net
<bhale> so easy enough to rm them in rules
<kkubasik> ooo right
<bhale> and -r:nini
<bhale> or so
<kkubasik> I was thinking they were shipping dapp-sharp as a binary
<ajmitch> though they have to be removed in the orig.tar.gz instead
<ajmitch> otherwise you get jumped on
<kkubasik> (banshee almost did that)
* dholbach updates his  uch  alias
<bhale> banshee is shipping boo as a binary now
<kkubasik> yeah
<StevenK> Which means repacking the source tarball.
<ajmitch> I'm getting bug reports in debian because a package I ship has .jar files in the source, which contain RFC docs under a 'non-free' license
<kkubasik> oi, I never knew it was such a big deal
<ajmitch> yes, it's a big deal
<kkubasik> are any of you guys on gnome planet?
<bhale> well the novell guys will jump up and down telling you how dumb it is
<ajmitch> no
<bhale> (aaron also checked xing into gnome cvs)
<kkubasik> or feeling particularly like writeing in the gnome wiki?
<kkubasik> just, there are a lot of guys like me that just are trying to get point a to point b
<bhale> i could be on planet gnome, if they ever processed my account
<kkubasik> and we don't get too involved in the middles
<kkubasik> its all on ross
<bhale> i am on step 6 or so
<kkubasik> which sucks, because I he's getting his butt kicked
<bhale> im on monologue
<bhale> which is probably close to what you want anyway
<bhale> closer*
<kkubasik> I was just thinking, we don't hear much about that
<bhale> but i talk to snorp, aaron, miguel every day
<bhale> they are fully aware
<kkubasik> a nice post might make us pay a little more attenetnion
<kkubasik> haha
<bhale> aaron continues to do it
<bhale> to make up for SuSE having 3 packages
<bhale> he puts the deps in binary form
<kkubasik> well, the young impressionables such as myself, you can sway us easily
<ajmitch> the rest we have to kick around
<bhale> over and over
<kkubasik> ok, here's my dilemma, that has nothing to do with what we were just takign about, but ill ask anyways
<bhale> lewing and joe mostly get that there is more than one distro
<kkubasik> I just upgraded my hosting plan, so I have 2tb a month
<kkubasik> which scales upward 16gb/week
<kkubasik> but, that growth is cumulative, so happy happy
<kkubasik> anyways, I was gonna mirror one of the iso sites to help out with the rush the next few dats
<bhale> you could seed the torrents
<kkubasik> but I certainly can't afford to go over, is there that much traffic?
<bhale> certainly is
<bhale> but most people are likely to hit the main archive
<bhale> i imagine
<luisbg> what do you recon is better to upgrade to edgy... dist-upgrade or clean cd install? (i have my home in an other partition than root)
<kkubasik> yeah, im sure that's pushing a good 400 p/s sustained
<bhale> holy crap am I late
<bhale> bye.
<kkubasik> peace
<ajmitch> bye
<Nafallo> swedish mirror pushes 1.87Gbit :-)
<kkubasik> yeah, the main archive is getting slammed, im gettign barely 600-700 okay
<siretart> happy edgy day!
<gnomefreak> happy start of feisty day?
<gnomefreak> :)
<ajmitch> no, not yet
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<gnomefreak> congrats on edgy seems to have gone fairly smooth :)
<luisbg> what's new in gnome 2.16? looking forward to it
<siretart> I don't think feisty will open before next week earliest
<ajmitch> maybe it'll start to open before MV, but we don't know
<ajmitch> doko may have some toolchain stuff to upload
<ajmitch> it won't be ready for general upload until after the toolchain settles at least
<siretart> like in edgy. right
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> but not as rough :)
<ajmitch> unless they plan to get glibc2.5 in
<zul> *whine* but i want it now
<ajmitch> oh, and linux 2.6.19
<ajmitch> which is probably sitting ready to upload
<zul> actually -rc3 is probably sitting ready for upload
<ajmitch> well yeah
<ajmitch> let's turn selinux on by default with a narrow targetted policy & see what breaks :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Um, everything? :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: narrow policy, I said
* Fujitsu starts chanting `Grumpy! Grumpy! Grumpy!' then ducks
<ajmitch> StevenK: you know that etch is going to ship with selinux, right?
<StevenK> I do now.
<ajmitch> we didn't break the world with gcc's ssp
<StevenK> Like I've been following Etch development.
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch still follows d-d
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: We broke a fair bit of the world with it.
<ajmitch> yes, but not *everything*
<ajmitch> maybe 98% of packages weren't affected
<ajmitch> there'll be opposition, of course
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o bhale]  by bhale
<bhale> hi
<ajmitch> hi
<jsgotangco> yo!
<bhale> hi
<ajmitch> hello jsgotangco
<StevenK> Hah
<sivang> hi
<tuxmaniac> yo yo yo
* tuxmaniac cheers the Ubuntu team for a wonderful effort
<FunnyLookinHat> LOL
<FunnyLookinHat>  they /kicked everyone out of +1
<Nafallo> hehe
<StevenK> Which what message?
<FunnyLookinHat> "edgy is out!!"
<FunnyLookinHat> ; )
<StevenK> Heh, nice.
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: redirects.  that's what they've been doing since dapper was released, at least
<elkbuntu> FunnyLookinHat, well of course we did
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I found it entertaining to see 200 kicks in a row in any case   : )
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: /cs clear, i believve
<Hobbsee> -v
<FunnyLookinHat>  : )
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, nobody around could do that until we found rob :)
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: heh
<zul> so is there goign to be an #ubuntu+2
<lupine_85> nah, it'll be #ubuntu+1
<lupine_85> still not open though :'(
<sladen> zul: edgy is out...
<zul> sladen: really? i didnt know ;)
<lupine_85> edgy++ :)
<Toadstool> 'morning everybody
<Gloubiboulga> hello Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey Gloubiboulga
<luisbg> can somebody re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<luisbg> just registered and introduced my gpg key and ssh key
<siretart> luisbg: just a sek
<lupine_85> If I've got an update to a package in universe, do I upload it via. revu ?
<lupine_85> it got through the review process, but is dying on ubuntu's build machines :(
<luisbg> thanks siretart =)
<gnomefreak> when are we unfreezing the repos?
<Nafallo> gnomefreak: in some months :-)
<Nafallo> LOL
<gnomefreak> lol
<Nafallo> a week or so I would guess :-)
<gnomefreak> ok cool
<gnomefreak> ty
<zul> gnomefreak: everytime someone asks that question god kills a kittne
<gnomefreak> :)
<lophyte> ajmitch?
<Nafallo> zul: ...and every 40 seconds someone kills him/herself.
<imbrandon_> [10:00]  <lupine_85> If I've got an update to a package in universe, do I upload it via. revu ?  << normaly no, you attach a debdiff to a big ( or the bug it fixes ) and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors , REVU is for NEW packages to the archive mostly
<imbrandon_> s/big/bug
<lupine_85> imbrandon: ok, thanks :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> congrats everyone btw
<LaserJock> darn, day 3 of the department server being down
<zul> day 3?!?!
<zul> holy crap..
<LaserJock> yeah, I really don't know what's going on
<LaserJock> they said yesterday they were going to move mail and web to a whole different server
<LaserJock> they got the web, but no email
<zul> is this your it people and they dont have a backup?
<LaserJock> this is our dept sysadmin and the Uni IT people
<LaserJock> and they have backups
<zul> ah..
<LaserJock> but I think they were trying to "fix" the server
<LaserJock> but I think they might be scrambling to replace it entirely
<zul> heh...
<LaserJock> we did a complete reinstallation of the server in a few hours
<LaserJock> I don't understand what happened
<LaserJock> the sysadmin said it was just a bad drive
<LaserJock> I wonder if something deeper happened
<zul> sounds like more than a bad drive
<luisbg> sorry about that LaserJock :S
<LaserJock> well, this email thing wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't forwarding all my Ubuntu emails there too
<LaserJock> that server has pretty much all my email
<luisbg> LaserJock, that sucks!
<zul> LaserJock: im surprised there isnt rioting in the streets
<LaserJock> well, they are mostly Windows users so they must be used to it ;-)
<zul> lol
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure how to set up mail on laserjock.us so I can move my @ubuntu.com there
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<LaserJock> why hello there highvoltage, fancy seeing you here ;-)
<highvoltage> mhuhahahahah
<zul> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/613 <-- those dancers dont look african
<jsgotangco> haha
<LaserJock> zul: close enough ;-)
<jsgotangco> they look maori
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, what I said :)
<trappist> I'm trying to build a package that requires me to run ./configure twice with the same options (to build a bundled package).  what's the best way to do that?
<LaserJock> trappist: run ./configure twice?
<trappist> LaserJock: is that a suggestion?
<crimsun> no, that's what you'd do in debian/rules
<LaserJock> or wait, you need to run ./configure and then make, and then ./configure again and then make again?
<trappist> yeah I'm in debian/rules, where I don't usually manually run ./configure at all
<trappist> LaserJock: just ./configure twice with the same options
<LaserJock> then yeah, debian/rules is fine
<crimsun> I'm pleased that my folks were able to painlessly dist-upgrade from hoary to edgy
<trappist> LaserJock: yes, but what do I say in debian/rules to make that happen
<ajmitch> crimsun: via breezy & dapper, or a straight dist-upgrade?
<crimsun> ajmitch: incrementally
<LaserJock> trappist: ./configure --<blah>
<trappist> LaserJock: I don't normally say ./configure at all in debian/rules.  should I just forget all the stuff like DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS and say exactly what I'd do on the command line?
* lupine_85 forgets how to use dpatch, lol
<chillywilly> congrats on the release :)
<LaserJock> trappist: I'm guessing that you're using cdbs
<trappist> so far, yes, but I'm not committed
<LaserJock> I"m not really sure about how it's done in CDBS although I'm pretty sure it can be done :-)
<luisbg> once I have the .dsc ... how do I try to install it? (to check if it is working)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: multi-pass builds in cdbs are not pretty
<ajmitch> luisbg: you need to build the source package (with pbuilder or similar)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I don't think it's multipass of the build rule
<trappist> no, just of configure
<ajmitch> that's... odd
<luisbg> ajmitch, ok
<trappist> ajmitch: it bundles pangoxsl in the source tarball and wants a separate ./configure for that.  or you could tell it to use an installed pangoxsl, but we don't package that and I can't think of a reason to outside this package (xmlroff)
<ajmitch> trappist: ah I see
<luisbg> how do I download the .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz files? because apt-get source only gets one tar.gz and packages.ubuntu.com the same
<ajmitch> so it's a separate configure, not running the same one
<luisbg> sorry for the lame questions... I'm new :P
<ajmitch> luisbg: if it's a native package, it won't have an orig.tar.gz & diff.gz
<trappist> ajmitch: right
<luisbg> ajmitch, I believe it comes from debian
<sladen> luisbg: what is the package?
<luisbg> subterfugue
<luisbg> ooh, it looks like there are no diff and orig
<sladen> correct, that is what ajmitch said 6 lines above.  If there it a native package, there is *just* the tarball and dsc
<LaserJock> luisbg: sorry, I didn't realize it was a native package
<luisbg> no problem
<luisbg> after making the corrections... I run
<luisbg> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<luisbg> then -> sudo pbuilder build ../*.dsc
<luisbg> next?
* lupine_85 thinks he has a fix :)
<lupine_85> ls
<lupine_85> ok... like this: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rutilt/+bug/68454 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68454 in rutilt "rutilt_0.12-0ubuntu1 fails to build on Ubuntu's build servers..." [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<lupine_85> !info rutilt
<ubotu> Package rutilt does not exist in any distro I know
<LaserJock> I HAVE MAIL!!
<zul> you bastard
<luisbg> LaserJock, congrats!
<luisbg>  I'm getting this with the dpkg-build -> (WARNING: Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file) ---- any clues?
<lupine_85> luisbg: does it to me all the time so I manuallty debsign -k(key fingerprint)
<LaserJock> hehe, the first thing I'm doing is tarring up all my mail and transferring it to this machine :-)
<rgl> hello
<LaserJock> hi rgl
<LaserJock> hmm, it looks to me like Marks doesn't have to share a room
<LaserJock> I guess those are the perks of being sabdfl
<ajmitch> hehe
<rgl> you guys known if someone has packaged apache 2.2?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it's in debian, will be in feisty
<zul> LaserJock: and he is allergic to shellfish
<LaserJock> I'm glad to see Claire had time to update my info
<LaserJock> I was worried I messed her up with changing everything around
<zul> LaserJock: are you flying into sjo?
<LaserJock> heh, no. I'm driving my minivan :-)
<zul> ah
<LaserJock> you guys will get to seem my geekyness
<rgl_> ajmitch, I see thx :D
<LaserJock> ogra drove a porsche to Paris, I get to drive a minivan to Mountain View ;-)
<zul> heh
<LaserJock> although I will keep my pants on :-)
<zul> good to know
<LaserJock> yes, my legs don't look nearly as good as oliver's ;p
<zul> i still dont want to see you with your pants off :)
<ajmitch> BAD IMAGES
<ajmitch> make it stop
<LaserJock> I should have taken a picture
<ajmitch> I'm glad you didn;t
<LaserJock> but highvoltage and I were in too much shock at the time
<zul> LaserJock: we would be too so keep them off
<zul> er..on
<highvoltage> we were just laughing, thought it was funny
<highvoltage> but it seems like it is normal in Europe :)
<LaserJock> what's a Linux conference without a streaker?
<sivang> re all
<sivang> planning the conference eh?
<lupine_85> mmmm streaker
* Toadstool hugs * for edgy too
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I just talked to my boss
<LaserJock> he described the server problem as a "complete serve meltdown"
<luisbg> LaserJock, ouch
<LaserJock> yeah
<luisbg> "meltdown"?
<LaserJock> I think they had to scrape the machine and restore for a backup
<LaserJock> *scrap
<luisbg> how big of a machine?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> it's served a department of >100 users
<luisbg> well... if it's built and programmed for it, it should handle it
<luisbg> what OS did it run?
<jabra> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/releasenotes doesn't have the release notes yet
<jabra> just fyi
<LaserJock> luisbg: I think it was running Suse
<ajmitch> nice drive-by, in entirely the wrong channel
<LaserJock> luisbg: it was a decent server I think
<luisbg> damn germans (just kidding, suse is cool)
<luisbg> ajmitch, yeah... that's the digital version of a shoot and run
<luisbg> can somebody suggest me a package that is pretty up to date and depends on python?
<luisbg> some very used big software that is done in python (azureus doesn't count)
<ajmitch> you want large? zope :)
<ajmitch> what 'big' software do you want?
<luisbg> ajmitch, zope will work
<luisbg> just want to check how the version of python is handled in the control file
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> zope is special
<ajmitch> just lookup the debian python policy
<ajmitch> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<luisbg> that was exactly what I was looking for =)
<luisbg> thanks ajmitch
<luisbg> I must say... I have participated in a few free software community
<luisbg> but this one beats them all in helpfullness in the irc channel
<luisbg> why is it that when I dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot I get... "(WARNING: Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file)"?
<fbond> luisbg, because the packages are created by someone else, and you don't have that person's PGP private key
<fbond> that is normal; there is no reason for you to have his key
<luisbg> so the package can be uploaded even though that warning appears?
<fbond> is it your package?
<luisbg> no... just fixing a bug
<fbond> If you are fixing a bug, you needn't upload the package to REVU, I think?  Perhaps a MOTU can assist.  I thought you just upload a debdiff to launchpad ...
<ajmitch> yes, uploading a debdiff by attaching it to a bug is preferred
<luisbg> ok ok, haven't got there yet, was just checking the package works
<LaserJock> but the question remains
<LaserJock> did you add a new changelog entry?
<luisbg> so... now that you mention it... how do I do the debdiff... as normal diffs?
<luisbg> LaserJock, did I or should I?
<ajmitch> debdiff package1.dsc package2.dsc
<ajmitch> you should
<LaserJock> luisbg: did you, because you should :-)
<luisbg> I did
<ajmitch> s/should/must/
<fbond> LaserJock, does dpkg-buildpackage sign the package with the key of the most recent changelog, or with the maintainer's key?
<luisbg> LOL
<LaserJock> fbond: most recent changelog entry
<fbond> ah, then the key error should not be happening if that is correctg
<LaserJock> the person that makes the changes should be the one signing it
<luisbg> should I move up one number in the version at the changelog since I'm adding a new entry?
<LaserJock> luisbg: yes
<luisbg> LaserJock, ok
<superm1> yes.  make sure that its an ubuntu version bump though.  if this package didn't have any ubuntu changes before, append an ubuntu1
<Amaranth> imbrandon: So art.ubuntu.com is just gallery 2?
<fbond> luisbg: to avoid the key error, you should have a valid GPG key associated with the email you are putting in the changelog line
<imbrandon_> Amaranth: plus a few hacks
<luisbg> fbond, I do
* imbrandon_ heads to bed, gnight all
<Amaranth> imbrandon_: I don't think it'll handle the load
<luisbg> fbond, I even have that gpg key in my launchpad account already
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-27
<Amaranth> night imbrandon_
<fbond> dpkg-buildpackage doesn't care about launchpad
<luisbg> fbond, I know... just stating the point I have a gpg key associated with my email
<LaserJock> luisbg: try using -k<gpgkeyid> with debuild
<imbrandon_> Amaranth: the old site had less than 200 images and i load tested it with over 5000 so i think it will be fine
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: how nasty & ugly are the hacks?
<luisbg> LaserJock, did and no difference
<LaserJock> luisbg: something's wrong then
<imbrandon_> ajmitch: pretty clean actualy ( cept one to disable the java crap )
<fbond> Are you able to sign anything with gpg explicitly?
<fbond> luisbg, do this: touch nothing; gpg -b nothing
<superm1> make sure that your name and email both match exactly what they are supposed to for the gpg key.  so if your Joe Shmow, make sure its not signing Joe S.
<superm1> (in the changelog)
<luisbg> fbond, a nothing.sig is created with my signature
<ajmitch> signing doesn't matter for when you're making a debdiff, though
<luisbg> superm1, doublechecked a possible spelling error
<luisbg> it's my name... after the million times I have written it... hard to mispell
<fbond> luisbg, not sure why dpkg-buildpackage is failing to sign ...
<imbrandon_> [17:12]  <imbrandon_> Amaranth: the old site had less than 200 images and i load tested it with over 5000 so i think it will be fine
<luisbg> fbond, I'm as confused
<luisbg> thanks for the help anyway
<Amaranth> imbrandon_: Yeah, I saw.
<imbrandon_> kk
<Amaranth> imbrandon_: I was only using an alpha of it but I remember it falling over when I got 10,000 or so loaded into it
<imbrandon_> gallery1 yea becouse its file based
<imbrandon_> not galler2
<Amaranth> I had to give it insane amounts of RAM to keep going when I had more than a few people
<Amaranth> no no, it was g2
<Amaranth> it wasn't even really 'alpha' they just didn't want to commit to the plugin API yet
<imbrandon_> welp i guess we'll see, if nothing else i'll do some home grown python/php
<LaserJock> anybody know how to convert a mbox to courier?
<imbrandon_> courier can use mbox format iirc, but there are ways to convert mbox to maildir
<LaserJock> hmm, I found a mbox2maildir
<imbrandon_> keep a backup :)
<imbrandon_> but sounds promising
<LaserJock> yes, well the server already fried
<LaserJock> so I've grabbed some backups first thing
<imbrandon_> :P
<LaserJock> it must have been really something, took 3 days to get email back up
<imbrandon_> wow
<imbrandon_> where at ?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<LaserJock> imbrandon: my department at the uni
<imbrandon_> !?!
<imbrandon_> why did a bot just op up?
<ajmitch> automagic scripts?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ajmitch]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ubuntu-es]  by ajmitch
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ajmitch]  by ajmitch
<imbrandon_> heh next q i guess is why its on the access list heh
<LaserJock> it's not
<ajmitch> why the chanserv settings haven't been changed, I don't know
<LaserJock> anybody can get op
<ajmitch> because they're completely broken for here
<imbrandon_> ahh
<imbrandon_> man i should be waking up right now and i cant sleep
<imbrandon_> too much caffeine i think
<luisbg> so where can one get himself a nice ubuntu t-shirt?
<plugwash> !google ubuntu tee shirt
<Yagisan> Results for: ubuntu tee shirt
<Yagisan> I cant find a result for that, sorry
<plugwash> try http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop ?
<luisbg> yeah... cafepress
<luisbg> some interesting stuff
<luisbg> how much is the shipping to europe though?
<plugwash> no idea
<plugwash> http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/shipping.aspx
<luisbg> wow $7
<luisbg> would have to buy a few stuff at once to make it worth it
<luisbg> I believe free software projects should give a t-shirt or similar of their project as a present to people who contribute significantly
<luisbg> would make the contributors wear proud their gifts
<luisbg> and have more people interested in spending some time contributing
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> I just did a du -sh in ~/ on the department server. I got 3.3 GB
<ajmitch> yikes?
<ajmitch> that's nothing
<LaserJock> it seem like way too much to me
<LaserJock> 422MB in mail
<ajmitch> pfft
<ajmitch>  du -sh ~/Mail
<ajmitch> 9.4G    /home/ajmitch/Mail
<ajmitch> there are some lists you should never subscribe to :)
<jsgotangco> crack fiend
<LaserJock> jeeze
<ajmitch> -rw-------   1 ajmitch ajmitch  1.1G 2006-10-18 18:15 sparc-rebuild
<LaserJock> I don't even have that much total
<ajmitch> lots of spam from fabbione
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> next highest is the ubuntu-bugs stuff with 821MB
<crimsun> luisbg: some projects have some monetary compensation, but that's not what drives community involvement in Ubuntu [at least not that I can see] 
<luisbg> crimsun, it shouldn't be the objective (to get compensation), but it doesn't harm =)
<luisbg> anyway I prefer the friendliness of the community over anything else
<luisbg> that's why I'm happy with ubuntu
<luisbg> well... going to sleep
<luisbg> ciao all!
<crimsun> bye
<fbond> good night, luisbg
<luisbg> fbond, =)
* luisbg zZzZZZzzzZZzzZZzzzzz....
<crimsun> zsh-beta sure is nice after a spell with dash as my shell.
<ajmitch> I've never really used zsh
<ajmitch> what's special about it?
<crimsun> no idea; I've mostly used bash.
<crimsun> iirc zsh had intelligent tab-completion before bash gained it
<jelmer> yeah, it's still ahead in some points
<jelmer> also, it has proper vi keybinding support :-)
<fbond> jelmer, what's improper about bash's vi key support?
<jelmer> fbond: I hated it when I tried it, but that's more than 5 years ago so I can't really give you anything specific, sorry
<jelmer> I'm not even sure those issues are still there
<fbond> hmm, it's all readline, I think
<jelmer> I'm pretty sure zsh doesn't use the default readline stuff for the vi keybindings
<LaserJock> I tried zsh a while ago, it was really slick
<jelmer> there's a couple of small things that are really nice
<jelmer> such as suggesting host and usernames when tabcompleting ssh commands, remote filename completion for rsync/scp, svn completion makes sense ("svn add" only suggests unversioned files), etc
<crimsun> there's also a really slick zsh-newuser-install() that walks you through creating a new ~/.zshrc (with explanations)
<fbond> yeah, I was tempted to learn zsh, but then ... I ran it, and something was really different (don't remember what) and I ran away, scared.
<minghua> I think bash's tab completion can do pretty much everything jelmer mentioned
<fbond> I think the .zshrc looked nothing like bash's, and I couldn't even set my damn path right, or something
<crimsun> never fear, "Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0-beta2-b86)" is far more menacing ;-)
<fbond> oy, I tried getting tomcat to play nice with apache once
<fbond> that was a waste of 6 hours
<fbond> I don't even know Java... wish people would stop writing programs with it.
<jelmer> minghua: I haven't tried bash recently so I may be biased
<minghua> jelmer: I am sure completing ssh hostname and scp filename (assume you use ssh key authentication) works
<minghua> jelmer: I never tried rsync, and didn't really notice svn commands completion
<minghua> but yes, I heard some people swear by zsh
<minghua> bash is more than enough for me, though :-)
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> i feel guilty marking bugs 'rejected'
<Lathiat> it feels harsh
<Lathiat> i cant help but think 'NOTABUG' is better ;p
<crimsun> you'll get over that quickly.
<Pierre> Lathiat: come in php, we use "Bogus" there, not really a good replacement :P
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> crimsun: well i just feel as an end user if i saw 'Rejected' vs 'Notabug' i'd be slightly more offended ;p
<crimsun> I normally attach an explanation in addition to the Status adjustment.
<Lathiat> oh sure, but still
<rmjb> so what's needed now is a bunch of bug triaging?
<Lathiat> yeh the bugs are goign to come in en masse
<rmjb> okay I'll hope over to #ubuntu-bugs
<minghua> I suppose universe bugs are going to come a bit later
<minghua> the first wave should be installer bugs :-)
<rmjb> I tried to help with a few in the forums earlier... a lil tricky on the update process
<rmjb> but I hope I helped
<rmjb> Here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates it says SRUs must be approved by Matt Zimmerman or Colin Watson
<rmjb> that also applies for MOTU?
<ajmitch> not yet
<ajmitch> we've yet to agree on an update procedure for universe
<rmjb> ok
<Plug> which of those things did GNOME 2.14.1 slip into dapper under?
<ajmitch> pre-agreed update
<ajmitch> & each package was reviewed, iirc
<Lathiat> hrm the update-mananger doesnt use $country.archive
<Lathiat> awesome i broke the update manager
<Lathiat> i killed it after it started to download the new pckages so i could use ab etter mirror and now every time i hit upgrade it just barfs out ;p
<Lathiat> haha " Why did you Reject this problem I'm having so quickly?"
<Lathiat> i was right
<Lathiat> heh
<minghua> Lathiat: "why do you say it's not a bug so quickly?  I have it right here!" sounds better? :-)
<LaserJock> Lathiat: which bug?
<Lathiat> LaserJock: in an email personally
<LaserJock> really?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> 'sok he wasnt being nasty or anythign i just explained the situation to him ;p
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you know why the at package does not configure correctly when in a chroot debstrap environment in edgy?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i had proc and sysfs mounted and i had home and lc_all exported correctly
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it says /etc/init.d/atd start failed
<LaserJock> I don't know
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the funny thing is it happens on edgy only and not on dapper
<joejaxx> maybe there is something new you have to do on edgy in the chrooted environment? otherwise the edgy images whould fail to build
<joejaxx> since the at packages is in ubuntu-standard
<minghua> joejaxx: add "set -x" at the top of /etc/init.d/atd and you'll see exactly where it failed
<joejaxx> minghua: alright let me do that
* joejaxx goes to debstrap
<joejaxx> package*
<rmjb> g'night all, got an early morning
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: welcome back :)
<Fujitsu> Hi, my X server had an argument with an XDMCP server over wireless... :S
<joejaxx> minghua: i just set -x
<joejaxx> minghua: + /sbin/start-stop-daemon --start --nicelevel 0 --quiet --exec /usr/sbin/atd --oknodo --pidfile /dev/null --
<joejaxx> invoke-rc.d: initscript atd, action "start" failed.
<joejaxx> i wonder why this is happening
<minghua> joejaxx: no error messages?
<joejaxx> minghua: i do not see any
<joejaxx> that is the last line from set x before it displays what it normal displays
<minghua> joejaxx: I feel reporting a bug is the best bet
<joejaxx> minghua: i am just wondering how you all built the edgy images
<joejaxx> without running into this problem
<minghua> joejaxx: I don't know enough about init.d scripts.
<joejaxx> oh alright
<minghua> joejaxx: well, I don't remember installing atd in my chroot in the first place
<joejaxx> minghua: well i am building livecds
<joejaxx> and it needs the ubuntu-standard package
<joejaxx> and it stops on that package
<joejaxx> :)
<minghua> I see
<minghua> Ask other people who build live CD then :-)
<joejaxx> minghua: too bad that package is not an uneeded one
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I haven't seen anything about that
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> LaserJock: maybe it is the way i am mounting proc and sysfs?
<joejaxx> mount -t proc none /proc && mount -t sysfs none /sys
<joejaxx> anything look wrong with that?
<minghua> you are mounting in the chroot?
<joejaxx> yes
<minghua> no idea then.  I always mount from outside of the chroot
<minghua> for proc, that is
<joejaxx> minghua: maybe i should try that
<joejaxx> how do you do that?
<joejaxx> mount -t proc  none /edgy-test/edit/proc?
<joejaxx> i have always done it from inside the chroot
<joejaxx> so i do not know how that works outside of it
<minghua> joejaxx: yeah, something like that
<joejaxx> minghua: oh ok
<joejaxx> let me try that
<minghua> although I usually use a different name than "none"
<joejaxx> minghua: should i just use proc?
<joejaxx> proc proc /path to /proc
<joejaxx> oh nevermind that whould not work
* joejaxx needs to sleep lol
<joejaxx> hmm mounting outside of chroot does not work either
<joejaxx> hello Burgwork
<joejaxx> minghua: so you think i should still fill out that bug even though edgy images are operational?
<minghua> joejaxx: what do you mean by "image"?
<minghua> joejaxx: I thought your problem is "atd can't be installed in chroot"?
<joejaxx> it cannot be install in chroot
<joejaxx> but it cannot be the package itself as the edgy livecd's are built from scratch
<joejaxx> so it has to be something i am missing or something has changed from dapper that i do not know about
<joejaxx> because it installs fine in dapper
<minghua> oh, you are thinking maybe the problem is your own system
<joejaxx> minghua: i have tried it on multiple systems
<minghua> use your judgement then
<joejaxx> minghua: so there is something new with edgy that i do not know about that deals with chrooting
<joejaxx> minghua: oh ok
<minghua> I don't think it hurts anything if I report a bug and gets rejected because of my own stupidity, but that's just my opinion
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Chandy> Hi
<Fujitsu> Hi Chandy.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Can I know on What basis Packages will be moved from universe to main section
<Fujitsu> Chandy: If they are deemed necessary, and then only if they are able to be well supported, stable, etc... There are no strict guidelines, AFAIK.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I found only some 4036 packages in main and 13000+ in universe
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Packages in main are officially supported by Canonical. universe is maintained by the community.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, What is theat AFAIK
<Fujitsu> `As far as I know'
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Canonical means what .. If that a team of Ubuntu developers
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do I careate index file "Pacakges" for breezy
<Fujitsu> It is the corporate entity that supplies the capital for Ubuntu, and hires some developers to work on Ubuntu and related products.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, If I see Ubuntu pool .. It contains packages for all its release under same pool
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Why do you want to create such a file?
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Of course.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, No, I just want to know , How we can differentiate pacakges between breezy,dapper and edgy from the same pool
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I am bit confused in moving packages from universe to main
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I can see Abiword in both main and universe section of pool
<Fujitsu> Chandy: You can only differentiate between releases by the versions of the packages.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok..Now I have differenet versions of packages in the same pool
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Chances are that Abiword was originally in universe, but was moved into main a while ago... So the packages from the previous release will be in universe.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, If I want to create packages file for breezy , then it should take lower version pacakges .. "If I use dpkg-scanpackages" It takes higer version .. How do I do that
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Once it is moved to main section ..wont it be removed from universe
<Fujitsu> Chandy: It will remain in universe in the old releases.
<Fujitsu> (sorry, I'm getting ready for my first job interview here, so my responses may be a little delayed)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, oh ..Good ..All the best
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<chillywilly> bah, my X is b0rked after upgrade....bah
<Kagou> good morning
<Chandy> Kagou, very good morning
<imbrandon> heya all
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> looks like atleaste part of the new toolchain is ready
<imbrandon> woot
<imbrandon> looks like the repos will open far sooner that i expected
<ajmitch> that's expected
<imbrandon> yea i dident figure it would be this fast though, i figured 2 weeks ( like edgy )
<imbrandon> not that its a bad thing, i already have a few uploads ready heh
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey Sarah
<Hobbsee> :)
<ChaosFan> sh
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hiya imbrandon
<lifeless> anjuta needs a rebuild for the vte transition
<dholbach> lifeless: edgy-updates
<dholbach> lifeless: aren't you a MOTU now too? :-)
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> also grip
<dholbach> yoohoo :)
<lifeless> :)
<ajmitch> great, got another friend who'll get involved with development :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: sweet
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nice
<sivang> morning ajmitch , lifeless
<Cale> Does anyone know whether a (potentially experimental) Ubuntu edgy package exists for Reiser 4 filesystem support?
<StevenK> reiser4progs exists, even in Dapper.
* imbrandon yawns
* Fujitsu :Os at imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hey imbrandon
<Cale> StevenK: yes, that's not a kernel module though, is it?
<crimsun> those are simply the userspace utils.
<Cale> hmm, what the... Where is the source for the kernel in edgy? All I'm seeing packages for here is 2.4 kernels.
<crimsun> linux-source-2.6.17
<thom> apt-get source linux-image-`uname -r`
<Cale> aha
<Cale> thanks
<Chandy> Why gnome-desktop pacakge and some other pacakges are not available under universe section
<crimsun> why would it need to be?
<crimsun> (gnome-desktop is a source package in main)
<Chandy> crimsun, I am working on building a distro ... I want to create a repo same as ubuntu...
<Chandy> crimsun, So Iam bit confused ..How do I select which packages to be put under main seciton , and which under universe section
<Chandy> crimsun, I found some packages are present in both main adn universe for eg: abiword
<Chandy> crimsun, But some are present only in main like "gnome-desktop"
<crimsun> Chandy: err, abiword (both src and bin) are in main.
<crimsun> Chandy: the component is repo-side with overrides
<Chandy> crimsun, I didnt get ..What is this repo-side with overrides
<crimsun> Chandy: the archive admins maintain override lists that determine into which component(s) a source package (and its binaries) fall.
<Chandy> crimsun, What are these overrides ..can I get an example
<crimsun> I do not have access to them (afaik they're not public-facing)
<Chandy> crimsun, Can the same source and binaries be in both main and universe
<minghua> there are docs about overrides files
<Chandy> minghua, Where do I get
<Chandy> crimsun, then how can I maintain overrides
<crimsun> cf. aforementioned docs
<crimsun> granted I'm unaware what has been adjusted for soyuz (if anything)
<minghua> I think dpkg-scanpackages(1) man page discusses it
<rmjb> Hey guys, these people apparently have a packaging issue with courier-authdaemon and try as they might they can't get it installed properly on upgrade to edgy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1670359
<rmjb> can someone help them out?
<Chandy> minghua, ok
<Fujitsu> Hm, another forum-as-bugtracker incident?
<Fujitsu> Or it is legitimate discussion?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, most likely
<Chandy> minghua, Do U know How to create packages file for different releases
<rmjb> looks like just a dpkg installation issue, cause I can install the package fine
<Chandy> Fujitsu, hey ..What happened your interview
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Went well :)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, thats good
<Chandy> Fujitsu, What are you doing now
<Fujitsu> Chandy: looking at that forum link :P
<Fujitsu> rmjb: Not much use without knowing what version of stuff they've got..
<Chandy> Fujitsu, hey I didnt mean that ..I meant R U a student or working
<Fujitsu> Chandy: A student.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, thats great
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Are u a MOTU
<Fujitsu> Chandy: yup.
<rmjb> Fujitsu: oh... things like that will prevent them from uninstalling also?
<Fujitsu> rmjb: No. But knowing what version of the package they have will allow us to better confirm/deny it.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I am a Debian , Ubuntu user and working on building a distro .. How do I become a Ubuntu developer
<crimsun> rmjb: bug 64615
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64615 in courier-authlib "apt-get broken after upgrade to edgy eft (courier-authdaemon package)" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64615
<Chandy> Fujitsu, crimsun was telling about maintaining overrides ..Do U have any idea abt taht
<Fujitsu> Chandy: you must exhibit that you have sufficient skills and experience in the field of packaging, then become an Ubuntu Member, then a developer.
<Fujitsu> Chandy: I have no idea, there might be some documentation on the Debian site.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do I do that
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
<Fujitsu> (there will be no Ubuntu-specific documentation, as anything that's different is proprietary, so documentation of it is of little interest to people who aren't Launchpad developers.
<Fujitsu> *)
<rmjb> thanks crimsun, I'll refer the thread to that bug...
<rmjb> Chandy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<rmjb> I'm trying to work on becoming one too... haven't reached very far
<rmjb> Hi dholbach, you responded to my UVFe for dmraid, said it needed to go to SRU, do I need to add anything else to the bug report or reassign it? It wasn't clear on the SRU page since that seemed like the process for main
<dholbach> rmjb: we don't have the process worked out yet
<rmjb> Oh and Chandy this might help as you go through the process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Hmm... It's post release...
<dholbach> rmjb: however it would help to talk to sfllaw and/or get people testing the new dmraid
<Fujitsu> I've got a SRU that a lot of people are waiting for.
* Fujitsu hints.
<crimsun> eh, I've got an SRU that people complained bitterly about and then proceeded to do NOTHING when the fix was made available in -proposed.
<crimsun> I love wasting my time.
<rmjb> So I should direct sfllaw to the bug?
<rmjb> I felt validated at the last bug comment for dmraid, someone said it worked beautifully on edgy :)
<Chandy> rmjb, thatnk you
<Chandy> rmjb, thank you
<rmjb> np
<rmjb> g'day all
<Chandy> Any command to create overrride file
<Chandy> crimsun, I got the suntax of override file "Package Priority Section"
<Chandy> crimsun, But How to specify the version of the pacakge to be taken into that release
<Chandy> override.breezy.universe.. is this type of oerrides files  manually created
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Do U have nay idea How to create this file override.breezy.universe.. Is this created manually
<Fujitsu> Chandy: No. Why are you dealing with Breezy?
<Chandy> Fujitsu, No , I just want to know How to carete overrides file and whats the use of that
<Chandy> create overrides file
<Fujitsu> Chandy: None of us here are archive administrators, so it is likely that nobody here knows.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Then in which channel I can get taht info
<Fujitsu> Chandy: None I know of.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
<luisbg> what steps should I follow to get a debian package suitable for ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> Chandy: The format of the override file is a number of lines of form:
<Fujitsu> package priority section
<Fujitsu> luisbg: In most cases nothing
<luisbg> Fujitsu, ok, let me try
<Fujitsu> luisbg: Although using a binary package is very inadvisable, it'd be advisable to rebuild it from the source package.
<luisbg> Fujitsu, that's what I'm going to try to do, if I have any problem I'll tell
<Fujitsu> luisbg: OK :)
<luisbg> =) thanks
<luisbg> Fujitsu, let's see if the dependencies match
<Fujitsu> luisbg: It's unlikely, but possible.
<luisbg> Fujitsu, LOL
<luisbg> usually is just matching up version numbers to the ubuntu ones? or is it more complex?
<Fujitsu> It shouldn't need any manual modification.
<luisbg> don't understand
<luisbg> shouldn't I modify the debian/control?
<Fujitsu> Most packages have shlibs:Depends in the dependency field, which means it automatically calculates the necessary dependencies.
<Fujitsu> So, no.
<luisbg> hmmm it seams it depends on a package not in ubuntu either...
<luisbg> gonna search for an easier to fix bug ;P
<luisbg> but will leave a comment of my discoveries in the bug report
<Fujitsu> luisbg: Which package?
<Fujitsu> (the missing, and the one you're building)
<luisbg> the bugreport is about gnuradio-examples, which misses the depending package gr-usrp (which is in debian contrib but not ubuntu)...
<luisbg> but then gr-usrp depends on python-usrp, which isn't in ubuntu either
<Fujitsu> Terrific!
<luisbg> LOL
<luisbg> Fujitsu, may I query you?
<Fujitsu> luisbg: Sure.
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping
<ArtVandalae> Does anyone know what's going to happen with Anjuta (the C IDE), the one found in Edgy (2.0.2) is alpha. Is anyone going to remake a 1.2.4a version?
<gnomefreak> ArtVandalae: nothing is going to happen for atleast 2 weeks and when it does its not likely going to be downgraded since its after release
<Chandy> Fujitsu, One doubt
<Chandy> Fujitsu, in universe section nail_11.25 version is available ..Which is not yet in main section
<Chandy> Fujitsu, this is the latewswt version in universe
<Fujitsu> Chandy: The package is not in main if it's in universe.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Suppose If this nail_11.25 pacakage needed and is moved to main ... Will that package will be still present in the main
<Fujitsu> If it is moved to main, it will be in main.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, so it wont be in universe , even the source
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Correct.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I fount some packages source and some binaries are present in main ..and few other binaries of same package are present in universe ..
<lastnode> now that edgy is out the door, would a motu consider helping us with some packaging (python)?
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Correct, some source packages produce binaries that are unsupported, so some of their binaries go in universe.
<Fujitsu> lastnode: Which application?
<lastnode> Fujitsu, http://www.upstreamdev.org
<Chandy> Fujitsu, unsupported in the sense ..
<lastnode> Fujitsu, we're nearing the release of 0.1.0 - Gtk/Qt frontends working etc.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, unsupported by Ubuntu team or Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> lastnode: This is upstream, is it?
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Offcial Ubuntu team wont give support for those binaries
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Lacking commercial support from Canonical.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, that's an ambigious question when you ask it like that. :P What do you mean?
<Fujitsu> Chandy: They are community supported.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do they know they cannot support ..as it will be from the same source package
<Fujitsu> lastnode: Upstream as in the product.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, yeah.
<Fujitsu> Chandy: The binary is simply deemed not supported.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, For exampole ..If I see acl package ... all libacl1 binaries are in main and acl binaries are in universe
<Chandy> Fujitsu, What is deemed
<Fujitsu> Chandy: decided, or similar.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
<Chandy> Fujitsu, How do they decide out of binaries of same package , some can come into main and some not
<lastnode> Fujitsu, imbrandon said he'd try and demo Upstream at UDS Mountain View, and we're keen on gettng a .deb out the door by then. That's why I thought I'd ask in here. Didn't want to ask before since Edgy was shipping.
<Fujitsu> lastnode: OK, that sounds like a good idea. Have you done any packaging before?
<lastnode> Fujitsu, I'm afraid none at all. :
<lastnode> I've read the debian py policy, that's about it
<Fujitsu> Chandy: It is basically at mdz's disgression at this time, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> lastnode: OK, I'll have a look at it.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, mdz'z disgression , what is that
<Fujitsu> lastnode: (a really great project!)
<Fujitsu> Chandy: mdz is Matt Zimmerman, the chief technical person at Canonical. It is his decision as to what enters main, I believe.
<thom> i think he means discretion :-)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, Oh..Then Can I contact him
<Fujitsu> Chandy: Not advisable... Why would you want to?
* lastnode timed out, if anything was addressed his way
<Fujitsu> [22:16:41]  <Fujitsu> Chandy: It is basically at mdz's disgression at this time, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> [22:16:53]  <Fujitsu> lastnode: OK, I'll have a look at it.
<Fujitsu> [22:17:13]  <Chandy> Fujitsu, mdz'z disgression , what is that
<Fujitsu> [22:17:19]  <Fujitsu> lastnode: (a really great project!)
<Fujitsu> That's since your last message.
<Fujitsu> thom: Same thing :P
<lastnode> Fujitsu, thanks mate. We're in #upstream and #upstream-dev if you'd like to drop by sometime.
<Fujitsu> thom: It's 2230 here, and I was up until after 0100 last night in #ubuntu; I'm tired :P
<Fujitsu> lastnode: I might drop around, yes.
<lastnode> thanks a lot
<lastnode> laters then, sleep tight
<lastnode> :-)
<Chandy> Fujitsu, I want to know this , What strategy ,guidelines are followed to decide about packages
* Fujitsu notes he is dangerously close to the Freenode channel limit.
<azeem> Chandy: there are established procedures for this, I believe they are documented
<Fujitsu> Chandy: General upstream activity, and supportability. I'm not exactly sure of the strict guidelines; but as azeem said, they should be documented somewhere.
<azeem> no need to mail the people unless you find the documentation lacking
<azeem> ng
<azeem> eh.
<StevenK> The procedure is a Main Inclusion Report.
<StevenK> Which should be documented in the wiki.
<Chandy> Fujitsu, ok
<StevenK> dholbach: Ping?
<Chandy> azeem, Where can I find the doc
* StevenK tries to encourage the headache he is developing to delete itself.
<Fujitsu> cat /home/StevenK/headache > /dev/null
<Fujitsu> Done.
<StevenK> Thereby leaving the headache around.
<lastnode> rm -rf /home/StevenK/headache
<StevenK> lastnode: I think it's EPERM at the moment. :-/
<lastnode> meh
<imbrandon> rm -rf /home/StevenK
<lastnode> :D
<imbrandon> :)
* StevenK sends imbrandon a SIGSEGV
<imbrandon> heh
<lastnode> imbrandon, hello! i just got Fujitsu interested in packaging upstream. we're having a chat in #upstream-dev about it if you wanna eavesdrop ;-)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee / Fujitsu , feisty pbuilders setup on horatio ( not that they are any diffrent from edgy atm ) and all pbuilders setup to update every hour now automaticly
<Fujitsu> Thanks imbrandon.
* StevenK is going to wait for feisty to actually have some changes before he does that.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yay :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and to get more stuff for your mirror :P
<imbrandon> StevenK, hehe i figured i would set it up now and ride the toolchange changes out
<StevenK> I might add feisty{,-{updates,security}} tonight.
<imbrandon> toolchain*
<imbrandon> yea i added the feisty mirror, only 55 mb of changes so far
<imbrandon> libc and a kernel i think is it
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Oh yes, feisty{-updates,-security} are going to be soooo useful for the next 6 months.
<StevenK> Interesting. Since feisty-changes is empty.
<jsgotangco> has it opened???
<zul> not really
<imbrandon> jsgotangco, not for uploads but the dist is there
<StevenK> jsgotangco: Apparently, it's in Pre-release freeze, according to Launchpad.
<jsgotangco> ahh it must be some automated thing
<TheMuso> Are there any toolchain updates that need to be bootstrapped?
<zul> most likely
<zul> i think thats what is happening now
<StevenK> libc 2.5 springs to mind, if we go for it.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I believe it is happening.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: fabbione mentioned it earlier.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<Hobbsee> it goes
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon
* StevenK waves to TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Hey StevenK.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Got an ISO yet? :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah.
<dholbach> StevenK: PONG
* StevenK has four.
<TheMuso> Just finished fetching server isos not long ago.
<StevenK> dholbach: Ah. Apparently, we MOTU are going to have a meeting after Edgy is out, correct?
<dholbach> we should :)
<dholbach> somebody shold propose time and date to the list
<StevenK> dholbach: Ah. I was only curious if you'd thought about it, is all.
<dholbach> I didn't think about it in the last days... too much other things happening :/
* StevenK nods.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: do we have an agenda so far?  build machines, woudl be one thing to discuss
<Hobbsee> s/machines/farm/
<StevenK> What Canonical needs to do, is make sure each MOTU has at least 4 of the six architecture machines. :-P
<Hobbsee> hahah
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<Hobbsee> sounds good to me
<Hobbsee> and all worth building on
<StevenK> Indeed.
<Hobbsee> it must be time for canonical to sponsor some more laptops, too :P
<zul> what they havent done that for you? ;)
<bhale> ik joined the laptop testing team to try to get amd64 or ppc
<bhale> but there were none of either, and they left me on anyway
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% uname -m
<StevenK> x86_64
<StevenK> bhale: ^
<bhale> well i have one now, in any case
<StevenK> Heh, nice.
<Hobbsee> zul: nope.  i came in far too late for that.
* StevenK hugs his 3Ghz amd64.
<bhale> got a core2 duo recently
<bhale> its running 32-bit for now
<StevenK> What a waste. :-P
<bhale> i was having major stability problems on 64
<StevenK> How so?
<StevenK> My amd64 is rock solid.
<bhale> like pluging/unplugging the power cable would hang the whole box
<bhale> plus general flakiness
<StevenK> Under-rated PSU?
<bhale> beats me?
<StevenK> Heh
<bhale> works fantastically on 32
<bhale> I call it a bug
<StevenK> bhale: If you can, try a higher wattage PSU in 64 bit
<bhale> did you miss the part where this was a laptop
<StevenK> You didn't say that...
<bhale> unsure why i would hotplug my PSU on a desktop, anyway
<StevenK> Dear me.
<bhale> I thought that was one clue
<StevenK> Yeah, well.
* bhale hugs StevenK 
<Fujitsu> bhale: I was thinking that, yes... Hotplugging such things isn't exactly a good idea :P
<Fujitsu> (and would be bound to cause a crash)
<StevenK> bhale: I have had about four hours sleep, and I've been working all day.
<bhale> my condolences
<StevenK> Yeah, well.
* Fujitsu commands StevenK to go to bed.
<bhale> halt
<StevenK> Hopefully, I don't sleep in until 3pm
* Fujitsu -> bed
<StevenK> imbrandon: Ping?
<imbrandon> pong
<StevenK> imbrandon: You had some image for Feisty, like Bambi?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I wanted to point my mother in law at it.
<imbrandon> heh ok , lemme find where i stuck it
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/FeistyFawn.png
<bhale> we used to have naked women
<bhale> now we have... bambi
<StevenK> Heh
<bhale> sigh
<StevenK> Bambi is the name of a porn star, so you could add the two.
<imbrandon> lol
<bhale> imbrandon: slap an ubuntu logo on here and lets go
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> a tattoo
<bhale> yes
<imbrandon> join #canonical-sysadmin
<imbrandon> gah
<StevenK> imbrandon: You're looking to become one? :-P
<imbrandon> haha no, just had to message one
<imbrandon> i dont think they would let me :) ( although it would be nice )
<zul> imbrandon: you look so happy in the eric jpg
<imbrandon> zul, the one with them both on my lap?
<zul> yep
<imbrandon> yea let me tell you how happy i was to have two whingey kids on my lap heheh
<zul> hehe
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<AnAnt> bddebian: hide
<AnAnt> what will the new version of Ubuntu be called ?
<snowblink> fiesty fawn
<lophyte> feisty fawn
<AnAnt> k
<joejaxx> anyone around that whould like to help me decipher a strace log?
<superm1> Could anyone point me to the process that is followed during Live CD building, so as if I wanted to patch some things in the build process for such a disk, I could?
<geser> joejaxx: for which program?
<joejaxx> geser: at
<joejaxx> geser: for some reason the daemon will not start in a chroot environment
<joejaxx> works in dapper
<joejaxx> not in edgy
<geser> have you an url to the strace log?
<joejaxx> yes i do
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=186
<geser> I don't see anything in the strace log that would explain it
<geser> can you strace /usr/sbin/atd directly?
<joejaxx> yes sure
<joejaxx> let me do that
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=187
<geser> joejaxx: I'm wondering about line 0: "Invalid process id" and why is /sbin/start executed (line 1) and not /usr/sbin/atd
<joejaxx> geser: i do not know
<joejaxx> geser: it tries to start the daemon when you install the package
<joejaxx> and that is what happens
<thom> joejaxx: uh, how did you run strace?
<thom> cos that looks awfully like the results of an "strace -p /etc/init.d/atd start"
<thom> i think you meant strace -f
<joejaxx> strace -Ff -tt -p /usr/sbin/atd start 2>&1 | tee strace-atd-sbin.log
<joejaxx> whoops
<thom> yeah, thought so
<thom> -p takes a PID
<geser> -p is for an already running process
<joejaxx> yeah sorry about that
<joejaxx> i forgot to take it out
<thom> and you don't want to do that anyway, since you'll get a tonne of shell and s-s-d spam
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=188
<thom> syslog's not running or your /dev is screwed
<joejaxx> thom: this is a chroot'd debstrap environment
<thom> that's nice
<thom> 16:47:45.304727 connect(0, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/dev/log"}, 110) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<thom> means that it's trying to connect to syslog and failing
<joejaxx> :\
<thom> so, either start syslog in the chroot, or modify your syslog configs to create a /dev/log in the chroot when your main syslog starts
<joejaxx> why does installing that package work on dapper debstrap and not edgy?
<joejaxx> i do not get any of those errors on dapper
<thom> maybe dapper atd doesn't syslog. maybe your install is different. i dunno
<thom> anyway, man syslogd and modify /etc/default/syslogd accordingly
<luisbg> is there a way to delete a comment in the launchpad bug tracker? I just made the comment in the wrong bug report
<fbond> luisbg, no way to delete, I think; just add another comment "Disregard last comment"
<luisbg> fbond, ok thanks
<superm1> in reading the licensing section http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing, certain firmware can be included on a case-by-case basis.  who should I talk to about getting firmware included?
<zul> as in drivers?
<superm1> well firmware for drivers
<zul> open a bug in launchpad assign it to linux-source-2.6.17
<superm1> well the drivers are in universe already though (ivtv), so the firmware would probably also go into universe
<superm1> still assign it to linux-source-2.6.17 then?
<zul> i believe so
<zul> you might want assign it to ivtv though
<superm1> should i subscribe anyone in particular?
<zul> dont think so
<luisbg> I'm looking at a package that in debian/control asks for libopenbabel-dev, but when trying to apt install it says it can't because it depends on libopenbabel0c2a, it's confusing me
<luisbg> ooh the package is libgchemutils0c2a
<geser> luisbg: you need to rebuild libgchemutils against libopenbabel1
<luisbg> against?
<geser> libopenbabel0c2a got replaced with libopenbabel1
<geser> you need to rebuild it to get the new lib (if it works with the new version)
<luisbg> ok, doing so
<Floola> Hi, I'm a newby so forgive my ignorance. Is there an easy way to build a package and submit it to repositories?
<Floola> Or should I ask, what's the easiest way to do it.
<superm1> Floola, have you read the packaging guide?
<geser> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<luisbg> Floola, https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<luisbg> Floola, is the package from source code or from a debian package?
<superm1> man everyone here is quick to the draw to get that info out.  i couldn't even google before luisbg posted :)
<Floola> It's a binary app
<Floola> not from source
<luisbg> superm1, it's because since I'm a newbie too... I have the guide open in firefox all the time
<luisbg> LOL
<superm1> hehe
<luisbg> Floola, never packaged binary apps, I'm a newbie too...sorry I can't help
<luisbg> and I don't recall reading about that in the packaging guide
<luisbg> which binary app?
<Floola> www.floola.com
<Floola> it's an iPod manager.
<Floola> as it's working quite good I thought it would be nice to add it to repositories.
<luisbg> which license does it have?
<Floola> freeware
<Floola> don't know if this is an issue.
<luisbg> what is the ubuntu policy about freeware?
<luisbg> I think it is permitted
<Floola> anyway it seems to be quite time consuming to create a package.
<luisbg> if you don't have some experience it is
<luisbg> but you can do one thing
<Burgwork> luisbg: as long as we can freely redistribute it, it can go in multiverse
<Floola> yep, it's freely redistributable.
<luisbg> send an email message to the programmers of floola, asking them if you can have a copy of the source code to make a package for ubuntu
<luisbg> if they say yes, drop me a line
<Burgwork> luisbg: you can pakcage binaries as well
<Floola> I'm floola's dev. ;-)
<luisbg> Burgwork, but wouldn't they be less efficient?
<Burgwork> yep, but that is ok
<luisbg> Floola, oooh, but you don't want people to be able to apt-get source the package
<luisbg> Burgwork, can you point us where to read about packaging binaries?
<luisbg> Floola, I can be your package maintainer if you don't want to spend the time learning to package
<Burgwork> luisbg: not hard
<Burgwork> Floola: is there some reason why your app is not open source?
<Floola> I just would like people to be able to install floola from synaptic and it would also be nice if the application would be automatically added to the application menu.
<Floola> yes, different reasons.
<Burgwork> ok, no worries
<Burgwork> so take you binary tarball and do things to that
<Burgwork> you don't need source
<Floola> what you mean with "do things to that"?
<luisbg> Burgwork, LOL, sure, but I'm curious to know which things to do to the binary
<Burgwork> not a MOTU, so no idea the specifics
<luisbg> Floola, the application menu thing is a gnome thing... you can make your binary do that independently of being a ubuntu package
<Floola> ehm, sorry I didn't meant the taskbar (or whatever it is called). I mean the application (Accessories, Games, Graphics...)
<Burgwork> yep, that isn't hard
<luisbg> Floola, I meant the same as you
<sladen> .desktop file
<luisbg> sladen, where is that file?
<geser> /usr/share/applications
<luisbg> ooh cool
<luisbg> so he should make the binary so it moves a floola.desktop file to /usr/share/applications
<Floola> I guess this is a package stuff
<sladen> luisbg: just stick it in the tarball;  but preferably package it aswell so that it's nicely uninstallable
<luisbg> sladen, I see
<luisbg> gotta go
<luisbg> bbl
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> hey ajmitch
<Cale> Has sistpoty been around?
<sistpoty> hi folks and congrats to edgy release!
<Cale> sistpoty: hello
<sistpoty> hi Cale
<Cale> sistpoty: Is there a GHC 6.6 package in the works?
<sistpoty> Cale: ghc6.6 should be in unstable already, so it will get merged for feisty, once merging will begin
<Cale> okay
<Cale> Will I be able to use that package from edgy, or will I have to upgrade to feisty?
<bhale> you can backport it.
<sistpoty> Cale: that depends...
<Cale> not until I get a new powersupply which can withstand hours of 100% cpu usage without overheating :)
<sistpoty> Cale: if gcc and friends don't change too much, you might be able to use it... however since all haskell libraries have a hard dependency on ghc6 with the right upstream version, you would need to rebuild them as well, if you plan to use them
<Cale> mm
<Cale> It would be nice to get a backport ;)
<Cale> GHC 6.6 has a whole slew of new libraries
<sistpoty> Cale: exactly this dependency of all existing libraries make a backport very unlikely...
<Cale> I mean, Haskell libraries, (in fptools)
<Cale> I don't think the dependencies have changed too much
<Cale> By hacking the deb, installing the experimental GHC 6.6 on dapper worked
<Cale> Since the only thing which it complained about was the patchlevel version of libc6
<Cale> (chopping off the part after the - resulted in something which ran fine)
<sistpoty> Cale: it might work to force install it... but for a proper backport all existing libraries would need to be rebuild, which makes an official backport unlikely
<Cale> okay
<sistpoty> (only way I could imaging was to make ghc6.6 a new sourcepackage to not break the libs, but such a case for backports was unprecedenced till now *g*)
<jbailey> Anyone know off hand if CDDL apps can go into universe?
<crimsun> jbailey: I don't know offhand, but FSF classifies it as a Free but GPL-incompatible one
<jbailey> Ah, thanks.
<rmjb> jbailey: asking for java?
<jbailey> rmjb: glassfish, actually. =)
<sistpoty> jbailey: according to http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components universe is open source + "software available under a variety of less open licences", so why not... though I personally always thought that universe licensing would mean the same as main
<plugwash> jbailey just make sure its not linking with any gpli stuff
<plugwash> *gpl
<rmjb> sun said java will most likely be open sourced under cddl soon, was announced this week a OracleWorld
<azeem> the cddl is a grey area in Debian to the choice of venue clause or whatever it is
<plugwash> sun have been saying they will opensource java for a *LONG* time, personally i'll belive it what it actually happens
<crimsun> sistpoty: yes, that's my hunch, too, since apache2 is also under a GPL-incompatible one.
<azeem> i.e. they set the jurisdication to california
<Admiral_Chicago> plugwash: i saw a video about it happening in 94
<Admiral_Chicago> iirc the date
<azeem> plugwash: this time they said "this year" afaik
<azeem> before they said "in the future"
<Admiral_Chicago> mid 90s for sure
<sistpoty> crimsun: but apache2 is considered dfsg-free, isn't it?
<azeem> sistpoty: of course
* plugwash points out that apache 1 wasn't gpl compatible either
<crimsun> it has to be ... to be in main :)
<plugwash> there is loads of non gpl compatible stuff in debian and ubuntu
<sistpoty> yay, and that's the point, I'm not sure if cddl is dfsg-free (iirc it isn't)
<plugwash> iirc the old apache license has something similar to the "abnoxious bsd advertising clause"
<ajmitch> jbailey!
<jbailey> Heya Andrew.
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<Lutin_> Hay
<sistpoty> hi Lutin_
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-28
<Lutin_> I am creating a package with cdbs which provides a sharedlib. what is the correct way to install the shlib file ?
<sistpoty> Lutin_: sorry, dunno that much about cdbs... is it a library you build? or is the shared lib only used by s.th. from the same sourcepackage?
<Lutin_> sistpoty, a shared libery I build
<Lutin_> library*
<sistpoty> Lutin_: did you check the debian library packaging guide yet? (very useful for info's about library packaging, though it doesn't mention anything about cdbs)
<Lutin_> sistpoty: checked it, bus as you said it's all about debhalper
<sistpoty> Lutin_: sorry, haven't ever tried to build a shared lib with cdbs myself, so I cannot help you there
<Lutin_> sistpoty, ok
<azeem> Lutin_: you need to provide debian/<package>.shlibs or something
<Lutin_> azeem: yeah. the point is that I don't know how to install it
<azeem> CDBS will call dh_makeshlib or whatever it is called, which will take care of it
<Lutin_> azeem: so the only thing I have to do is create the shlibs file ?
<azeem> that's what I was saying
<azeem> I could be wrong though
<sistpoty> azeem: iirc you shouldn't need to create an shlibs file yourself, rather use dh_makeshlibs instead (but I could be wrong as well)
<azeem> sistpoty: that will set shlibs to the current version, which is probably not what you want if the library itself didn't change
<Lutin_> gasp. crashes :/
<sistpoty> azeem: doesn't it set the shlibs to the current soname?
<azeem> no, the shlibs is set to something which maps to a Ubuntu version number
<azeem> at least, AFAIK
<azeem> so you get Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.6-1) e.g. if you compile a package against that lib, instead of the latest version of libc6
<azeem> if you don't maintain the shlibs file yourself (i.e. you have none), package using your library will always claim they need the latest version of your library
<azeem> well, latest version at the time they were built
<azeem> somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please
<azeem> sistpoty: oh, the soname version is also in .shlibs, right
<sistpoty> azeem: ok... just wanted to write that my understanding was that -V does what you just wrote... *g*
<sistpoty> but I must admit that I haven't played with libraries for some time now ;)
<azeem> sistpoty: ah, I was wrong :)
<azeem> by default, you don't get version depends at all it seems
<sistpoty> you also shouldn't need them, due to package-name containes soname, right?
<sistpoty> (if upstream properly knows about soname *g*)
<azeem> soname only encodes backwards-incompatible changes
<azeem> not additions of interfaces
<Lutin_> azeem: I think shlibs files are used to specify versionned deps on the shared libs, but might be wrong
<azeem> Lutin_: optionally, yes
<sistpoty> azeem: ah... right, thx
<azeem> sistpoty: so if your library adds interfaces, you should bump shlibs
<Lutin_> sistpoty,azeem, thanks a lot. gotta go to sleep now :)
<sistpoty> gn8 Lutin_
<Lutin_> thx
<Lutin_> good evening
<Lutin_> or whatever other moment of the day it is for you
<Lutin_> ^^
<Lutin_> bye
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<luisbg> hey LaserJock
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<luisbg> how is the time with your inlaws=
<luisbg> ?
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> went to a Chinese buffet and did some shopping
<LaserJock> just got home
<luisbg> chop suey?
<LaserJock> all kinds of good stuff
<LaserJock> even had pizza, go figure
<luisbg> pizza in a chinese buffet?
<LaserJock> yes, it is the USA after all
<LaserJock> they had french fries too
<luisbg> weird
<luisbg> here in spain they only have chinese food
<luisbg> well... what we know as chinese food
<luisbg> you know chinese people really don't eat that, it's like occidentalized chinese food
<Fujitsu> Nice blog post, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: heh, I wondered if anybody saw it
<Fujitsu> It's on Planet, so of course :)
<LaserJock> I was kinda tired last night and was thinking of how to do a "Good work people" post
<luisbg> what's the url?
<LaserJock> planet.ubuntu.com ;-)
<Fujitsu> planet.ubuntu.com, second from the top.
<luisbg> LaserJock, I have been contributing
<LaserJock> luisbg: excellent
<luisbg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/subterfugue/+bug/65322
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65322 in subterfugue "[UNMETDEPS]  subterfugue has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,In progress] 
<luisbg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zope-plonecollectorng/+bug/47663
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47663 in zope-plonecollectorng "[UNMETDEPS]  dependency missing" [Medium,Unconfirmed] 
<luisbg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnuradio-examples/+bug/65315
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65315 in gnuradio-examples "[UNMETDEPS]  gnuradio-examples has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<luisbg> LaserJock, but it seams that you people made such a terrific job to bring out edgy
* ajmitch spots a zope package..
<luisbg> that all the bugs in the list are "not easy" to fix :S
<luisbg> LOL
<ajmitch> luisbg: the debdiff for zope-plonecollectorng doesn't have the change that you say it does
<ajmitch> http://librarian.launchpad.net/4938178/debdiff_zope-plonecollectorng
<ajmitch> where's the change to debian/control?
<ajmitch> also.. +zope-plonecollectorng (1.2.9-2) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch> it must be 1.2.9-1ubuntu1
<ajmitch> and 'feisty' now, not unstable
<luisbg> ajmitch, sorry
* luisbg makes a sad cute face 
<luisbg> I'm a newbie you know
<ajmitch> don't apologise, just fix it :)
<luisbg> LOL
<luisbg> will do!
<luisbg> actually... doing so
<ajmitch> luisbg: once it's fixed & the new debdiff is attached, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<LaserJock> I'll have to do a more serious blog post today
<luisbg> LaserJock, =)
<luisbg> ajmitch, fixed the debdiff
<luisbg> what do you mean with "subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors"?
<ajmitch> on the left, 'subscribe someone else'
<ajmitch> so that it gets on the list of stuff for us to check & upload
<luisbg> subscribed =)
<luisbg> should I do that to the other bug I fixed last night too?
<ajmitch> yes, all bugs with debdiffs that you have ready
<luisbg> cool
<luisbg> how does the karma thing work in launchpad?
<LaserJock> you do things and you get karma points :-)
<StevenK> Well, some things.
<luisbg> what kind of things?
<Fujitsu> Modifying bugs/specs/tickets..
<LaserJock> bug work, translations, specifications
<Fujitsu> Oh, and translations too.
<LaserJock> pretty much everything but uploading :/
<luisbg> LOL
<Fujitsu> Yeah, everything except the really important thing :|
<luisbg> but somebody has to approve the bug modification to be validated as karma points?
<Fujitsu> No, you get them regardless.
<luisbg> so my commenting, assigning bugs to me, attaching debdiffs... isn't considered bug work?
<Plug> edgy uses python-2.4?
<luisbg> Plug, yes
<Plug> so packages should depend on python2.4-mysql rather than python-mysql, f.ex?
<luisbg> Plug, not really sure about the new python policy
<luisbg> but I would think yes, but don't take my word for it
<LaserJock> Plug: no, I don't think they should depend on 2.4
<Fujitsu> luisbg: It does count, yes... Only after about 24 hours though.
<Fujitsu> Plug: No, leave the 2.4 out. You might want to check the Python Policy.
<Plug> I'm just confused, as after upgrading I've ended up with a bunch of python-X packages that I dont know if I need
<Plug> and I'm not sure where they came from :)
* Plug looks for policy
<luisbg> oops... sorry for the wrong comment
* luisbg should attach his newbie sign back again :P
<LaserJock> we got rid of python2.X packages for Edgy
<luisbg> well... goodnight all, going to bed
<LaserJock> cya luisbg
<luisbg> ciao! enjoy
<luisbg> thanks for all LaserJock, have a nice one
<StevenK> LaserJock: So did Debian, which was nice.
<Plug> LaserJock: so python2.x-foo can all be removed?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> at least that's the idea
<LaserJock> I don't know that it's 100%
<Plug> right, I had it back to front :)
<ajmitch> hi Plug
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi again LaserJock
<LaserJock> did you work on the SRU stuff yet?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, ajmitch
<LaserJock> bddebian!
* ajmitch shuffles off into a corner
* Fujitsu pulls ajmitch out of the corner.
<Fujitsu> No hiding! Fix Feisty! It's all up to you.
<ajmitch> nah, bddebian is here
<TheMuso> Where's Hobbsee when you need her? :)
* Fujitsu grumbles about the lack of SRUs...
<bddebian> I'm out of anything until probably the 1st of the year :'-(
<DarkMageZ> anyone know how i'd go about converting a .ico file to .png via cli?
<LaserJock> DarkMageZ: will convert do it?
<DarkMageZ> ah, i'll give that a try
<DarkMageZ> LaserJock, which package is that in? i tried searching for convert, but nothing obvious
<LaserJock> imagemagick
<LaserJock> or some variation of spelling therof
<DarkMageZ> ah, thanks =D
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!
<bhale> Hobbsee!!!!!!!!!!111!
<Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey bhale!  hey Burgundavia!
* bhale pokes Hobbsee with a pointy stick
* poningru shakes fist at Burgundavia for breaking the meme
* Hobbsee attacks bhale with her LONG POINTY STICK OF DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> (tm)
<LaserJock> darn, I was going to add that to my blog post too
* bhale curses volumes_visible
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: add what?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh.  you'd be the third person to do that in a few days, if you did :P
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: feel free to :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: if you do, do make sure you say something nice about me, or something that i can laugh at :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I might actually start up a blog
* Fujitsu laughs at Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: aw, I didn't get a pony..
* Hobbsee was thinking of getting her blog added to planet.
* bhale laughs with LaserJock 
<bhale> and his funny ponies
<Hobbsee> but that doesn mean i do need a hackergotchi, though
* Fujitsu adds Hobbsee's blog to Planet.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's ok, we can make one for you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it had better be a good one.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sorry, I couldn't give everyone a pony, I need to save some for next time
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: not one that makes it look like my head's been smashed in or something
<bhale> Hobbsee needs a hackergotchi
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It won't make it look like it has been, it WILL have been!
* Fujitsu smashes Hobbsee's head in with a DOOM STICK!!!!!(tm)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, maybe for feisty+5 I can get one :)
<Fujitsu> Say cheese!
<crimsun> you're all celebrities!
* Fujitsu applauds crimsun for all his awards.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hah
<LaserJock> crimsun was the inspiration for the Golden Pony Awards
<ajmitch> crimsun: we're all special!
<crimsun> speaking of which, where is that blasted pony...
* Hobbsee wanna pony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> :P
<ajmitch> calm down
* Hobbsee stomps her foot and doesnt calm down.  my pony!
* LaserJock goes to edit his plog post
* Fujitsu throws a pony at Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee gets splatted with the pony, and falls to the ground
<Hobbsee> thanks!
* Fujitsu scrapes Hobbsee of the ground.
<Fujitsu> *off
* Fujitsu croons to the pony:
<Fujitsu> `Did evil nasty Hobbsee hurt you?'
<Hobbsee> hahahaha @ LaserJock
<bhale> where is my pony, anyway
* Hobbsee goes and grabs breakfast
<bhale> it was my idea to put a pony on fridge in the first place
<bhale> but daddy I want a pony NOW
<Hobbsee> you know, there'd be only one problem with me having a blog on planet
<ajmitch> what problem is that?
<Toadstool> 'evening everybody
<Hobbsee> i'd just be silly in it, like i am on irc, i expect ;P
* Hobbsee waves her long pointy stick of DOOM!!! (tm) at Toadstool in greeting
<Toadstool> uhuh
* Toadstool runs away
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: this is a brand new pointy stick you bought for feisty or this is the same as usual with a "of DOOM!!! (tm)" upgrade? :p
<bhale> its a sligtly different shade of brown as the last version
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: http://laserjock.us/blog
<ajmitch> LaserJock: haha
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Toadstool> :D
<bhale> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<bhale> sob.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I haven't even done a apt-get update
<ajmitch> bhale: you'll get toys to play with soon
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: the full name is the Long Pointy Stick of Doom (tm)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: has been for a long time.
* Toadstool hides
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ROFL!!!!!
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: your tantrum achieved much ;)
<LaserJock> well, I *was* planning on giving her an award, but forgot
<ajmitch> hm
* ajmitch wonders what the submitter of bug 68708 was thinking
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68708 in tintin++ "Please sync tintin++ (main) from unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68708
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed!
<ajmitch> "let's sync a new upstream release into main after edgy is released"
<Hobbsee> i saw someone else request that too
<Hobbsee> obviously, they're thinking that they need to put the crack pipe down.
* Hobbsee goes afk again
<LaserJock> ajmitch: she narrowly beat out Jane Silber's work on "GI Jane" ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch obviously needs to do more for feisty
* Toadstool needs to do something for feisty
* bddebian 3
* LaserJock 4
* lophyte 5?
<LaserJock> notice I didn't get a Pony :(
<zul> ajmitch: fix ldap
<ajmitch> zul: ldap works great
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's because you're modest
<ajmitch> zul: fix xen
<zul> ajmitch: hah..
<lophyte> xen works fine except for networking :P
<zul> touche
<LaserJock> I hope Mr. Klose is ok with his award
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> you never know how things get interpreted
<LaserJock> but I tried to do it in good humor
<Toadstool> sure! here is your "Most annoying buildd DoS-er" award ;)
* ajmitch wonders what award LaserJock deserves
<LaserJock> heh, I get to be the janitor
* Mez thinks some of the Kubuntu team deserve awards ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> Mez: yes, next time I'm going to spread it around better, maybe take nominations
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It also turns out that tintin++ is actually in universe :P
<LaserJock> this was a spur of the moment thing
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Don't bother. Let a kubuntu person do that.
<TheMuso> Just worry about Ubuntu. :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm not Ubuntu specific I don't think
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: either way, it deserved rejection
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Of course. But the incorrect component just added to the stupidity of the bug.
<ajmitch> it doesn't even require a merge for feisty, just autosync
<LaserJock> man I find CVS annoying :/
<LaserJock> it seems to be way too verbose
<ajmitch> we all do
<DarkMageZ> svn is better, tho that doesn't fix your verbose problem :P
<LaserJock> it does actually
<LaserJock> cvs status is ridiculous
<LaserJock> svn status is much easier to look at
<LaserJock> I guess cvs status | grep Status works
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What project are you looking at that uses such a deranged VCS?
<LaserJock> a gnome project
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> although it's not in gnome proper
<LaserJock> so I'm not sure if they are going to move to svn
<[jb] > can someone send me the edgy original wallpaper?
<theCore> LaserJock, GNOME tried to move to SVN, but they had problems during the migrate. So, they abandoned the idea
<LaserJock> yeah, I tried their svn and then the next day they ditched it :/
<theCore> http://svn.gnome.org/
<theCore> yeah it's dead
<theCore> hmm maybe not
<theCore> http://svn-test.gnome.org/migration/status-all.xml
<LaserJock> but this project isn't in gnome proper so it wouldn't have been in Gnome svn anyway
<theCore> cool, they wrote their cvs2svn in Python
<theCore> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/svn-migration/bin/svn-migration.py?rev=1.15&view=markup
<imbrandon> bwhahahah "The Beauty and the KDELibs"  classic LaserJock, thats such a cool post
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> it was a lot of fun
<imbrandon> golden ponie awards, that rocks man, brought a smile to my face just as i wake up, hehehehe i bet
<LaserJock> kinda trying to have a little fun
<imbrandon> some of those movie names are classic
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> for dapper I got really blue after the release
<LaserJock> so I thought I'd have more fun with this one
<imbrandon> why? releases are supose to be fun times
<imbrandon> well /less/ stressfull == fun :)
<Mez> LaserJock, I thought it went orange in the dapper release ? :P
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> heya Mez
<Mez> hey imbrandon
<Mez> ooh
<imbrandon> crimsun got the bets award imho
<crimsun> ..?
<imbrandon> best*
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> crimsun, did you read LaserJocks post ?
<crimsun> no?
<imbrandon> heheh quote from LaserJock golden ponie awards : Release-long Achievement Award: crimsun (aka Daniel Chen) for his tireless work for the Ubuntu community, photographic URL memory, endless support for Universe maintainers and contributors, helping us hear Ubuntu, wikipedia-like knowledge, and being a generally swell guy. His most important works include While You Were SleepingI Fixed Universe, Flash, Changing
<imbrandon> Universe, and The Sound of Music: ALSA and You
<imbrandon> wow got cut off
<imbrandon> crimsun, http://laserjock.us/blog/?p=6
<crimsun> that award is better appropriated to bddebian.
<ajmitch> nah, you definitely deserve it
<imbrandon> definitely
* bddebian doesn't deserve squat
* crimsun tosses a pony at bddebian 
<LaserJock> well, I was going to give a  "Best portrayal as a Diety" award, but didn't know if bddebian would go for it ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> Dude wheres my Xorg, lol , man i'm gonna be laughing aobut some of these for days
<LaserJock> but I've got to save some for next time
<ajmitch> LaserJock: add it!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: dude, got beryl packages?
<imbrandon> oh snaz , no i forgot, i'll grab tem now
<imbrandon> LaserJock, http://little-shoppe.com/images/goldponycoltad.gif
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> man koffice has been compiling since i went to sleep last night
<LaserJock> ajmitch: although Barry's performance in "The Passion of the MOTU" was good, I think next release's work might be even better ;-)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it doesnt like you
<imbrandon> ye the processes is still running, but i think its stalled or something
* imbrandon starts to mess with beryl some more
<bddebian> Somehow I think I'm being mocked again :-)
<imbrandon> bddebian, nah
<crimsun> nope. You, William, and Michael did a heck of a job.
<minghua> hi, I need some help on switching to a non en_us X keyboard, while using a US keyboard
<imbrandon> ajmitch, compiling now, give me ~30 minutes
<minghua> there is a bug seems only reproducible in non en-us x keyboard setting
<Fujitsu> crimsun: By Michael you mean geser?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yes.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: He has really done an enormous amount.
<crimsun> yep, you guys certainly kept my mouse buttons in working order
* Fujitsu hands crimsun a `Most valuable member of u-u-s' award as well.
* ajmitch hangs up his gpg keys
<minghua> okay, let me try de keyboard layout...
* LaserJock slinks off to do some work
* Fujitsu steals ajmitch's keys, and cackles evilly...
* Fujitsu uploads enormous amounts of crap to main.
<LaserJock> maybe some day I'll get an award
<crimsun> minghua: I've normally used setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout CC
<minghua> crimsun: oh, I only know "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"
<minghua> crimsun: so is setxkbmap effective immediately?
<crimsun> minghua: yep
<crimsun> granted I stole all the parameters from a KDE session =)
* Fujitsu gives LaserJock a lead science-pony, for him to turn into gold using his chemistry skills :P
<minghua_> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> np
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: mwuahaha
<Fujitsu> `Dude, where's my Xorg?' is just great.
<LaserJock> yeah, that's the first one I thought of
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, I like your blog post too (although I am sure I didn't get all of them)
<LaserJock> yeah, I haven't even seen half the movies I played off of
<LaserJock> but I think they are all based on actual movies
<Fujitsu> Python Policy on a Plane, ey?
<Fujitsu> I guess it does bite and be generally nasty :P
* minghua wonders where y is on a de keymap (or where can I find a de keymap layout picture)
* Fujitsu runs off for many hours now.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Z and Y are swapped.
<minghua> Fujitsu: indeed.  thanks
<Fujitsu> Good old QWERTZ layout.
<minghua> Hmm, still can't reproduce this damn bug
<FunnyLookinHat> Am I correct in saying that doing a simple dist-upgrade with replacing dapper with edgy in your sources.list will not work correctly, and that you should do gksu "update-manager -c"       I was under the impression that new packages and programs wouldn't be implemented with a simple dist-upgrade
<ajmitch> no, dist-upgrade should work in most cases, but the update-manager app catches some more corner cases
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: I think update-manager -c is preferred but dist-upgrading also works
<FunnyLookinHat> Hmmm...  ok.  Thanks!
<crimsun> (except for Xubuntu, which explodes on Dapper->Edgy if gksu "update-manager -c" is used)
<FunnyLookinHat> yea, that's what happened for my buddy, heh
<ajmitch> crimsun: a slight problem
<crimsun> just a tad
<ajmitch> been able to track down any of the breakage?
<crimsun> mvo's quite puzzled, too
<crimsun> he thinks it's related to the icon theme being updated
<ajmitch> no clue as to why it only affects xubuntu?
<crimsun> I don't have any, no.
<FunnyLookinHat> What is the base package for xubuntu ?  I.e. the equivalent of ubuntu-desktop & ubuntu-standard ...   could it be related to that meta-package?
<LaserJock> xubuntu-desktop :-)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: are we there yet?
<LaserJock> huh? huh?
<imbrandon> workin still: E: beryl-core_0.1.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so you're still preparing source packages I can build & try out & critique?
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I just need source
<imbrandon> ahh well hell
<ajmitch> that's what I wanted...
<imbrandon> give me 5 minutes then
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i was compiling them all
<ajmitch> why?
<imbrandon> no just do one upload ( that and i only have 1.0 installed )
<imbrandon> but one sec
<imbrandon> i'll just up the source
<ajmitch> I appreciate if the source actually builds correct binaries, of course :)
<imbrandon> some still needs cleaned up ( like the control files a bit ) but they work correctly
<ajmitch> what arch were you building for anyway?
<imbrandon> amd64
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch wants them for x86
<imbrandon> kk
<ajmitch> since I want to try with the laptop
<imbrandon> k give me 5 more minures to copy them to the server
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 5 minutes are up ;)
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/beryl/
<imbrandon> core copied
<imbrandon> still working on the rest
<ajmitch> wonderful
<ajmitch> stuff on digg about edgy upgrades breaking for many people
<imbrandon> great
<bddebian> Gnight folks..
<ajmitch> yeah, looks like plenty of people on the forums have had breakage
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=285446
* imbrandon loosk
<minghua> Are these crash reports with a *.crash summary file automated?
<ajmitch> looking at the poll results, I wonder how much of it is due to crack they've installed
<ajmitch> minghua: yes
<ajmitch> sigh, looks like a few of those are from compiz/beryl breakage as well
<minghua> lovely.  and thanks, ajmitch
<minghua> (now only if it can attach reportbug script output as well...)
<ajmitch> minghua: see apport
<minghua> ajmitch: that's the program that generates the crash reports, right?
<ajmitch> yes
* tuxmaniac runs beryl and edgy with very minir issues. But rest is great!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you don't have much upstream bandwidth, do you? :)
<imbrandon> 1mb/s but i'm sure there are other things going
<imbrandon> in other words no
<ajmitch> I'm fetching at ~30K/sec
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> i've almost finished up the rest of the dsc's
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'll be patient
<imbrandon> i can upload ot a fast server if i get done before you finish
<ajmitch> ok, fetched all the tarballs
<imbrandon> kk, the diff's and stuff should be small
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ok updated
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> seems that I'm having a little trouble updating the pbuilder chroots
<ajmitch> with the datacentre being a little slow
* ajmitch doesn't often update the x86 one
<imbrandon> yea thats one thing i love about having a local mirror
<ajmitch> I'm using apt-proxy
<ajmitch> local mirror would be a bit too large
<whiprush> ajmitch: my mirror seems to be not-so-slammed if you want to give it a shot, ubuntu.secs.oakland.edu
<ajmitch> it's ok
<ajmitch> just updated
<imbrandon> heya whiprush
<whiprush> hi imbrandon
<ajmitch> I think it was apt-proxy having "one of its moments"
<imbrandon> crap ajmitch uncomment "docbook-to-man debian/beryl.sgml > beryl.1" in beryl-core
* imbrandon go's to grab some soda
<ajmitch> again..
<ajmitch> I don't know how you can drink that much of it
<imbrandon> lol
<whiprush> soda-addiction is a massive epidemic in our part of the country ajmitch
<whiprush> midwesterners love their pop
<imbrandon> yup yup
<ajmitch> yeah I've mostly managed to get away from it
* LaserJock hugs whiprush 
<LaserJock> you used "pop"
<whiprush> heh
<ajmitch> I used to be drinking far too much coke a day
<ajmitch> now I barely drink any
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you forgot the docbook-to-man build-dep?
<whiprush> man, we have way too many specs already
<imbrandon> ajmitch, probably, i was rushing heh
<Toadstool> I as a French guy am amazed by the amount of coke people here can drink, I'd have to change my stomahc at least three times a day if I drank as much as they do
<Toadstool> (here = California)
* ajmitch drinks mostly water now
<imbrandon> Toadstool, heh
* LaserJock runs to register the "We have to many specs" spec ;-)
<Toadstool> :)
<ajmitch> ok, finally got pbuilder running for beryl-core
<ajmitch> emerald-themes has a broken version number
<imbrandon> oh crap
<imbrandon> o instead of 0
* imbrandon headdesks
<ajmitch> :)
<imbrandon> heh see why i said they are stilla  bit rough hehe
<ajmitch> "a bit"
<ajmitch> do they run?
<imbrandon> yea ( the source does ) i have it installed now, but i'm still working on these packages, they should be 99.99% right as they are besed on my 0.1 packages
<ajmitch> yay, build failure
<ajmitch> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/share/man/man1/beryl-start.1': No such file or directory
<imbrandon> wonderfull
<ajmitch> no longer shipped
<imbrandon> yea just needs removed from the bery-core.install
<ajmitch> rebuilding again :)
<imbrandon> err beryl
* ajmitch needs a faster box
<imbrandon> i need to hit the lottery and i'll buy us all fast boxes hehe
<imbrandon> but i got to play the lottery to win, so i guess i'l; never win huh ? lol
<ajmitch> pbuilder-satisfydepends takes an age
<imbrandon> yea even on fast boxes
<ajmitch> we have to talk to mvo to get the apt-get simulation cut down
<ajmitch> see why it's dragging
<imbrandon> definately ,it take longer for that to run then compile it most of the time
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> annoying :)
* ajmitch might get another SATA drive to play with for feisty
<whiprush> didn't motu get a hardware donation the other day?
<ajmitch> some spare LVM space could be useful
<ajmitch> whiprush: I haven't heard anything about that
<whiprush> I could have sworn those system76 dudes donated something.
<imbrandon> not that i know of, i've been working on a way to get a build farm like porter machines for MOTU's
<ajmitch> whiprush: I'd love it if they did
<whiprush> I've got a server I can donate a login to for motu.
* ajmitch hugs whiprush 
<whiprush> like, with an motu login or something
<ajmitch> we need xen working properly on amd64
<whiprush> dual dual core 2ghz opteron with 16gb of ram.
<ajmitch> puts my little amd64 x2 to shame
<imbrandon> whiprush, that would rock ( right now i've been giving accounts on one of my build machines thats much slower than that )
<whiprush> I can probably repurpose an opteron ultra 20 too if someone needs it, but that would be much slower, it's like 1.7ghz with only a gig of ram.
<whiprush> imbrandon: individual accounts or one shared account?
<imbrandon> whiprush, individual accounts , and i have local mirrors serup for repos and pbuilders for dapper,edgy,feisty,sid,etch
<whiprush> our main server is a nut crusher though
<ajmitch> whiprush: you my friend
<imbrandon> but its on a 2ghz celeron with 2 gb ram
<whiprush> imbrandon: we should discuss this further.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: /bin/sh: ./configure: Permission denied
<imbrandon> whiprush, definately
<whiprush> I have a similar 32bit opteron server but it only has 8gb of ram.
<ajmitch> beryl-manager
<imbrandon> wth, ok run ./autogen again
<ajmitch> that's crackful
<whiprush> my only issue is that I have like 20 people logged into them at any time, so during peak hours people would have to nice themselves appropriately.
<imbrandon> yea definaely
<ajmitch> & probably won't preserve permissions in the diff.gz
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i'll probably have to remake the tarbals
* ajmitch hacks around in debian/rules
<whiprush> sweet, we'll discuss this during -mtv
<imbrandon> whiprush, right on, i had planned to a bit, i started a spec
<imbrandon> whiprush, i have some scripts to nice 19  the pbuilder from logins
<whiprush> stupid question
<imbrandon> and stuff
<whiprush> how many people who aren't MOTUs know that you guys are sucking with resources?
<ajmitch> whiprush: probably none
<imbrandon> whiprush, probably -0-
<ajmitch> my biggest problem is probably bandwidth, living in the wonderful country of data caps
<imbrandon> ( unless your counting -core-dev as many of us are both )
<imbrandon> whiprush, my .plan was to not only set that up but also access to say powerpc machines and such too, along with local mirrors on the lan ( done ) so people from like nz are only using ssh not downloading a ton of crud
<ajmitch> imbrandon: beryl-manager needs intltool build-dep
<whiprush> honestly I think if someone were to come up with a decent spec and plan
<imbrandon> but right now i only have one x86 one x86_64 and one ppc for logins
<whiprush> that you'd get flooded with people donating resources
<whiprush> if you ask right
<imbrandon> whiprush, yup yup, i would think so too
<jsgotangco> whiprush!
* ajmitch is more fortunate than most, and has 1 amd64 & 1 x86 box
<whiprush> jsgotangco: JEROME!
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<imbrandon> whiprush, i made a placeholder spec if you wanna touch on it a bit
<imbrandon> +devfarm i think its called
<whiprush> k
<whiprush> will look at it.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: actually there's more breakage than missing build-dep, I suspect
<ajmitch> or I got it wrong
<imbrandon> for what one ?
<ajmitch> beryl-manager, as I said a couple of minutes ago
* imbrandon scrolls back
<imbrandon> oh hrm
<imbrandon> lemme peek at the svn packaing they have for build-deps
<ajmitch> ./configure: line 4964: syntax error near unexpected token `0.35.0'
<ajmitch> ./configure: line 4964: `IT_PROG_INTLTOOL(0.35.0)'
<ajmitch> so it was probably broken at autogen time
<imbrandon> wonderfull
<imbrandon> yea i'll probably have to make the rules run autogen for these
<imbrandon> i dident want to
<imbrandon> figures
<ajmitch> trying again
<imbrandon> did you add autogen to the rules ?
<imbrandon> or just run autogen again>
<LaserJock> sorry, reading backlog. I still can email the System76 guy about a hardware donation
<LaserJock> if we have a plan put together
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> donated hardware is always nice
<ajmitch> ran autogen.sh & make distclean
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ah cool
<ajmitch> LaserJock: like somewhere to put them?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, rockin, yea i'll see if i can get a better plan togather, the main thing i see as a problem is where to host this at ( i started off doing it at my house and i dont mind continuing to do so ) but it would be nice to have a rack somewhere in the DC or something
<LaserJock> well, or specifically what we are looking for
<ajmitch> make[2] : execvp: /tmp/buildd/beryl-manager-0.1.1/install-sh: Permission denied
* ajmitch is hating this package some more
<LaserJock> _MMA_ was talking with the guy and it sounded like he was at least interested in the idea
<ajmitch> donations to individual MOTUs would be impractical
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we need a US DC ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, as i said i have the room here and the time to admin it , but its the question of weather the MOTU as a group want that
<imbrandon> ajmitch, exactly
* ajmitch wouldn't mind some donations, however :)
<imbrandon> hell we might even talk google into sponsoring some hosting if we come up with the boxes heheh
* imbrandon dounts it
<imbrandon> doubts*
<LaserJock> hmm, that's not a bad idea though
<LaserJock> something to think about for UDS get together
<imbrandon> and i say the best way for "admining" it is a small LP team like the REVU admins
<imbrandon> ( that again i wouldent mind trying to get togather and helping with since i've been trying to find the best way to handle it anyhow localy)
<imbrandon> but stuff needs to be "worked" out like hardware and hosting heh
<imbrandon> x86 i dont think we'll have a problem with, its the other arches
<ajmitch> imbrandon: something along the lines of how debian does it
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea
<imbrandon> ajmitch, thats my idea for it, why reinvent the wheel ( when not needed )
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that would be useful to know. I don't know a lot about it
<ajmitch> borrow things like the acceptable usage policy, too
<LaserJock> the Debian Developer's Reference should have some stuff on that shouldn't it?
<imbrandon> basicly if you have a key in the DD keyring you have access to the porter machines
* ajmitch tries to compile beryl-plugins
<imbrandon> but admining i mean moreso about maiing sure the pbuilders are setup right, and updated , and just general system maint
<imbrandon> making*
<ajmitch> I know
<imbrandon> most of it can be automated and logs watched
<LaserJock> well, time for bed
<LaserJock> good night
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<LaserJock> enjoy your Golden Ponies
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> for those who got them
* LaserJock hands out Ponies for all of #ubuntu-motu
* ajmitch is not bitter at all
<LaserJock> there :p
* jsgotangco doesn't deserver a Golden Pony
* StevenK ponders setting up xgl or so on his laptop.
<LaserJock> nooooo
* jsgotangco too
<LaserJock> stay away from the light
<StevenK> "I can't help it .... it's so beautiful .... *bzzzzt*"
<LaserJock> exactly
<StevenK> :-P
* LaserJock out
<imbrandon> lol
<jsgotangco> the last time i used it was during dapper development
<jsgotangco> jeezz
<StevenK> (A Bug's Life, if no-one can place it)
* jsgotangco is so out of touch lately
<whiprush> dude that movie came out like 5 years ago
<imbrandon> hrm ajmitch autogen in the rule the way to go you think ?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ugly
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> but .... well.... its ugly either way
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> man there is still google ad's on the forums
* imbrandon grumbles
<ajmitch> dh_install: beryl-plugins missing files (debian/tmp/usr/share/dbus-1/*), aborting
<imbrandon> yea the dbus crap was split out
<imbrandon> i forgot about that
<ajmitch> more crack
<imbrandon> yea
* ajmitch fears
* jsgotangco wonders if the forums just did a pop up ad on his browser
<jsgotangco> ahh no
<imbrandon> zomg, the guy that owned the first tech company i worked for and intro'd me to linux just emailed me ( he has long since sold the company and moved somewhere in texas )
<imbrandon> thats a blast from the past
<imbrandon> i hadent thought about him in over 10 years :)
* StevenK tries to enable AIGLX on his laptop.
* StevenK ponders compiz or beryl
<imbrandon> beryl seems to be the rage, but they are both crackfull atm
<ajmitch> beryl is the popular flavour with ubuntu
<ajmitch> probably because they provided packages & were on the forums
<StevenK> Ah, but compiz is in Edgy, and I'm lazy. :-P
* ajmitch goes to the wiki to smack a user
<ajmitch> silly people who decide to overwrite SpecTemplate
<StevenK> Hmph.
<StevenK> The docs in the wiki say 'compiz-start', which doesn't exist.
<ajmitch> doesn't mean that the wiki follows the packages
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> it's all open to intepretation
<StevenK> Damn!
<StevenK> "GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing"
<ajmitch> aww
<StevenK> Another place the wiki is wrong.
<StevenK> Apparently, the i810 driver supports it.
<ajmitch> it does
<StevenK> But that's what my laptop uses.
<imbrandon> yea i use aiglx on my i810 driver card all the time
<StevenK> Driver "i810"
<StevenK> Okay, so why doesn't compiz find GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap?
<ajmitch> what does glxinfo say?
<ajmitch> you're logged in via ssh?
<StevenK> I can be
<ajmitch> or something similarly annoying? :)
<StevenK> steven@jaded:~% DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo| grep GLX_EXT_text
<StevenK> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
<ajmitch> right
<StevenK> But I was running compiz from X,
<StevenK> s/,$/./
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> probably some gl fun
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$ glxinfo| grep GLX_EXT_text
<imbrandon> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
<imbrandon>     GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
<imbrandon>     GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
<imbrandon> brandon@horatio:~$
<imbrandon> and it works here
<imbrandon> dunno what that stuff means
<StevenK> imbrandon: Do you use the compiz from Edgy?
<imbrandon> i use berly
<imbrandon> beryl
<StevenK> Does it actually work?
<imbrandon> yes
<StevenK> Can I be lazy and add a repository?
<imbrandon> slow on this computer but not unbearable
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you ever fix up all those packages
<imbrandon> or still have issues
<StevenK> Hr
<StevenK> m
<StevenK> compiz now works, given the command line from the manual page, but I don't have a title bar.
<imbrandon> titlebar? as in the windeco ?
<StevenK> Yes.
<imbrandon> hum i havent used compiz since dapper flight 6
* StevenK manages to impress his wife with the compiz shiny crack.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> the only way i would impress my ex-wife was to get off the computer
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> StevenK: your wife was even more impressed with my pretty background :P
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sorry, was just on phone
<ajmitch> imbrandon: every package is somewhat broken
<imbrandon> no worries, i was just gonna give it to StevenK, i'll work on them some more here ina  bit
* StevenK notes compiz sort of works.
<StevenK> It's just a little too slow to actually be usable.
<imbrandon> yea thats my probelm with it, its just a little to slow to use day to day
<imbrandon> its ok for like 5 minutes to show it off
* StevenK nods.
* StevenK is trying to get a window to become translucent.
<Chandu> Hi
<Chandu> I want to know How motu-tools work
<Chandu> What are the prerequisites for that tool and how to user that
<Chandu> how to use that
<ajmitch> imbrandon: fixed them all up yet?
<Chandu> imbrandon, I want to install malone bug tracking system in our server for intranet ... How do I do that
<azeem> Chandu: malone is not free software
<Chandu> azeem, Oh! then how ubuntu is using in motu
<azeem> Chandu: Canonical has developped it and are allowing motu to use it
<ajmitch> we use it via the web UI or by email
<Chandu> azeem, ok
<azeem> Chandu: maybe you can talk to the Canonical people in #launchpad, but I am not sure whether they are selling it to other people
<Chandu> azeem, ok
<Chandu> azeem, How to work with motu-tools
<azeem> I don't know, ask the channel in general
<Chandu> How to work with motu-tools
<azeem> also, maybe ask a more specific question, like what you have tried and you failed
<azeem> s/and you failed/and how you failed/
<Chandu> I have built a distro based on debian .. a single cd distro ..
<Chandu> Some packages I have modified (Replcaing our images over debian and etc)
<Chandu> and added our own revision (same as ubuntu XubuntuY) - as gdm 2.8-0boss1
<Chandu> Now I have that small repostory containg packages which are in my distro
<Chandu> I want to merge debian with boss .. to give the public to make use of the full repo(15000 packages)
<Chandu> same as ubuntu
<azeem> ubuntu rebuilds all of debian
<Chandu> But just like that I cannot give debian repo ..as while isntalling it will give dependency problem .. as version of debian and boss differs
<Chandu> azeem, ubuntu rebuilds all of debian packages
<azeem> yes
<Chandu> azeem, means what , how do debian get synced into or merged into ubuntu
<Chandu> azeem, ubuntu rebuilds all debian packages over which release
<ajmitch> we import only source from debian & rebuild them on the buildds
<azeem> ubuntu imports debian source packages from unstable, and rebuilds them for their next release
<Chandu> azeem, Suppose dapper is there , now new release edgy is coming (for eg:) , how do U sync debian packages with edgy and how do U merge and how do you assure that it works on edgy
<Chandu> azeem, How do you rebuild on next release as it wont be released yet
<azeem> Chandu: I believe this is documented on the ubuntu wiki/webpage
<Chandu> azeem, and what about the versioning , whether you are adding XubuntuY for all tha packages you are rebuilding
<azeem> only if we change the Debian source
<azeem> and this is documented as well
<Chandu> azeem, can I get the exact path of the webpage
<ajmitch> Chandu: have you seen pages like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<azeem> Chandu: at least my motivation to answer your questions drops rapidly if I feel you're asking questions you could easily research on your own
<ajmitch> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers
<Chandu> azeem, Either changeing the debian source or not , the source will be rebuilt in ubuntu .. again ..right
<azeem> yes
<Chandu> azeem, sorry , ya I have seen ..
<Chandu> azeem, I will go thru again
<Chandu> azeem, How to setup the buildd environment for the forth coming relesase
<azeem> Chandu: this is not free software either
<Chandu> azeem, which buildd
<azeem> ?
<Chandu> azeem, which one is not free software
<azeem> the Ubuntu build infrastructure
<Chandu> can you suggest me then how can I do the same for my distro
<Chandu> I need full repository ..which will work fine on our distro
<azeem> Chandu: see above, you could ask Canonical whether you can buy the launchpad build service
<azeem> Chandu: or you could setup something similar to Debian's autobuilders (which are free software)
<azeem> but that is off-topic here
<Chandu> azeem, ok
<Chandu> azeem, Why do want to rebuild again the debian source when there is no need of any change in that and not adding ubuntu revision .. just you can copy the debian source and binaries to ubuntu na
<azeem> Chandu: 10:56 < Chandu> But just like that I cannot give debian repo ..as while isntalling it will give dependency problem .. as version of debian and boss differs
<azeem> you answered it yourself
<Chandu> azeem, ya ..but then how do I build for my future release ..which also ask for build-depends
<azeem> I don't know
<Chandu> azeem, then what is auto syncing from deiban to ubuntu
<azeem> launchpad
<azeem> Chandu: is your project a commercial or community one?
<Chandu> azeem, it is community one , but still community is not formed .. .which are still work as a small team .. a team of 8 members
<azeem> maybe you can try to convince Canonical's launchpad people that it should be a Ubuntu-derived distribution and they might let you use launchpad directly
<azeem> but this is off-topic in this channel I guess
<Chandu> azeem, ok
<Chandu> How to grab all the relevant files for the merge using the script grab-merge.sh which is in http://merges.ubuntu.com/
<DarkMageZ> in debian they have a "libsdl-pango-dev" what would ubuntu's equal be?
<kozz> I planned to set up a repository and it works fine except that it can't authorize with my key, what do I need in order for apt-get to be able to authorize the packages?
<kozz> my public key, http://www.kozz.org/files/keys/kozz.gpg which I added with apt-key add but still don't work
<kozz> the repositry http://pegasos.org/ubuntu/edgy/
<kozz> used the howto at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LocalAptGetRepositoriesTrivial
<DarkMageZ> hmm, what are the chances of the new frozen bubble (2.0) which requires a new library sdl-pango, coming to edgy?
<ajmitch> approximately nil
<ajmitch> since edgy is released, and gets no new software
<ajmitch> having that dependency would mean that it probably won't be backported either
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, thanks for the validation on that :)
<luisbg> hello all
<Hobbsee> heya
<luisbg> how is all going Hobbsee ?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: good, just got home from work
<luisbg> nice... weekend for you now?
<Hobbsee> yep
<luisbg> :) enjoy
<luisbg> when is feisty opening?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: a week after the last person asked.
<StevenK> Ha!
<StevenK> Feisty, due to be released in April 2007, will open for uploads in May, 2007.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's what we said for edgy too :)
<StevenK> Hah
<luisbg> LOL
<Hobbsee> StevenK: but it will be in feature freeze, so all uploads will need a UVFe
<StevenK> Hobbsee: And be approved by the distro team. ;-)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and everything will be on manual, due to the constant main freezes
<Hobbsee> yetp
<Hobbsee> -t
<luisbg> really?
<Hobbsee> yep
<ajmitch> luisbg: of course
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: actually that was seriously suggested for dapper - that it just be frozen breezy
<luisbg> sounds logical
<StevenK> Hrm. I'm rather glad it wasn't.
<luisbg> but for development to not slow down feisty should open sooner
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, people seem to like suggesting that, and focus on stability.  Then they bitch that the latest version of their app isnt included.
<ajmitch> a 6 month freeze on new versions would have been painful
<ajmitch> luisbg: seriously, edgy is out only a couple of days, be patient
<Hobbsee> indeed.  i dont think there'd be many devs left if they did that
<luisbg> freeze the stable version, work in the unstable once the other is frozen
<luisbg> sounds good to me
<luisbg> if you want the newest... take the risk
<ajmitch> there are little things like the development toolchain that are critical to roll out before feisty is open for general uploads
<Hobbsee> luisbg: what about the idea of a holiday?
<Hobbsee> bha.
<Hobbsee> *bah
<ajmitch> luisbg: doesn't work so well
<Hobbsee> let's just have evertyhing fail to build after the toolchain is done
<ajmitch> you get everyone switching to the unstable branch & just running that
<luisbg> Hobbsee, I think in free software you can step out for a while if you desire it... it isn't like you are in a payroll
<Hobbsee> and then bitching when it doesnt work :P
<Hobbsee> luisbg: you forget that people are.  and those are the people tending to do the toolchain, etc
<luisbg> true
<luisbg> so are they taking a vacation?
<ajmitch> so they've had 1 working day since edgy was released, and you expect them to have everything in place for feisty?
<StevenK> They tend to, just after a release.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: of course :P
<luisbg> LOL
<StevenK> They've added it to Launchpad - it took them much longer to do that for Edgy after Dapper.
<ajmitch> StevenK: you have no idea of the pain of dapper opening
<ajmitch> it took weeks
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> first release opening on launchpad
<luisbg> ajmitch, I don't expect it to open the next day... but not in 6 months... a few weeks sounds good
<StevenK> I think I looked to contribute just after.
<ajmitch> they were talking about opening it on dak & then shifting it - I think that happened in the end
<ajmitch> launchpad was even rougher back then
<luisbg> I'm just bitching a little because I decided to contribute the same day edgy came out :S bad timing for me
<ajmitch> you kids don't know how lucky you are :)
* StevenK hands ajmitch his cane.
* StevenK wheels ajmitch to his porch, so he can brandish it.
* ajmitch swings the cane in StevenK's direction
<luisbg> lol
* StevenK easily ducks.
* luisbg films it and ulpoads it to youtube
* Hobbsee shoves both ajmitch and StevenK over
<StevenK> Oof
<ajmitch> no respect..
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.  you're just an old and decrepit man :P
* Hobbsee nods sadly
<ajmitch> I should just go to bed
<Hobbsee> s/sadly/seriously/g
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: for an early bedtime, yes.
<jsgotangco> heh no serious stuff happening on the channels lately hehehe
<ajmitch> yes, it's not even 1AM
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: indeed.  i was quite surprised at -devel just after dapper was released
<luisbg> where are you guys from... here is past 1pm
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: October 28 2006, 21:36:32
<jsgotangco> @time manila
<luisbg> LOL
<Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Manila: October 28 2006, 19:36:38
<ajmitch> I'm from a little island in the south pacific
<luisbg> I'm from a little island in the center atlantic
<ajmitch> IP over carrier pigeon..
<StevenK> ajmitch: Tasmania
<jsgotangco> the southern state of au?
<Hobbsee> hah
* StevenK high fives jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ajmitch> StevenK: that isn't technically on the pacific coast
<ajmitch> tasman sea & southern ocean, perhaps
<StevenK> Since when has that stopped quips?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i'm suprised those carrier pigeons arent all banned yet.  surely they make one heck of a mess.
<StevenK> Muahah
<luisbg> gonna go have lunch... you people smalltalking :P
* ajmitch wanders off for sleep
<jsgotangco> its supposed to be a quiet weekend for all of us
<Hobbsee> night old man
* Hobbsee hugs ajmitch 
* ajmitch ignores Hobbsee & detachs
<StevenK> Dear me.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Windkracht8> Hello all, I've got a bug (http://pastebin.ca/226404) on 2 separate computers it has been unable to remove gmediaserver with synaptic/apt-get
<azeem> hi Barry
<bddebian> Heya gang..
<bddebian> azeem: :_)
<AnAnt> lionelp: got a minute ?
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: got a minute ?
<Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, yes
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: you from france, right ?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<chillywilly> Edgy doesn't seem to do the suspend to disk thing anymore...
<chillywilly> bah, yet another thing to fix
<AnAnt> chillywilly: it does
<AnAnt> chillywilly: I use acpitool -S
<chillywilly> well I usually use the power management applet....actually I use the "hibernate" button which triggers it
<chillywilly> that didn't work either :)
<AnAnt> chillywilly: well, hibernating from the GUI usually is bad here
<AnAnt> chillywilly: when I wakeup the machine , the machine freezes !
<chillywilly> it used to work for me just fine
<AnAnt> well, it sometimes works, sometimes freezes
<AnAnt> so I hibernate from console
<chillywilly> it seems to do it but never actually powers anything off
<AnAnt> but even when hibernating from console sometimes it does wake up (usually actually), but sometimes it instead does a clean boot
<AnAnt> oh
<chillywilly> myabe I am missing some package
<AnAnt> duno
<chillywilly> ah, it complain
<chillywilly> [17217237.528000]  swsusp: Cannot find swap device, try swapon -a.
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> great then I get another error when using swapon -a
<chillywilly> swapon: /dev/disk/by-uuid/baca8b78-083c-4b4e-bbd0-976f0abd3849: Invalid argument
<chillywilly> this is why it does not fully suspend to disk
<chillywilly> my fstab looks awfully bizzare
<chillywilly> big long fugly UUIDs
<lupine_85> chillywilly: just modify the fstab
<chillywilly> well I did mkswap on that weird uuid device
<chillywilly> works now
<chillywilly> but I don't like the fact that it did this: # /dev/hda6 -- converted during upgrade to edgy
<chillywilly> then there's the weird uuid device listed under that
<chillywilly> brb
<teferra> filed a bug https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/68863 and needed to report it to MOTU. But the emaila dress at launchpad rejected the message.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68863 in malone "Ethiopic true type fonts" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Nafallo> teferra: MOTU cares for universe and multiverse, not main.
<teferra> Nafallo: I was advised by Christian Robottom Reis <kiko@async.com.br> to contact MOTU on this issue at rosetta users list
<Nafallo> ah, I misread the bugreport
<teferra> so will it be taken care of. I am tired of explaining to people where to get and how to install the fonts.
<Nafallo> no idea. I'll assign it to the right plays for now. any further progress will be appended to the bugreport.
<Nafallo> s/plays/place/
<teferra> Thanx. good enough for now.
<Nafallo> np :-)
<Nafallo> someone will hopefully pick it up
<teferra> hope so:-)
<LaserJock> Goooood Morning MOTU Land!
<Nafallo> evening lakin
<Nafallo> evening LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Nafallo
<lakin> hi Nafallo
<lakin> ;)
<Nafallo> LaserJock: running feisty yet? ;-)
<Nafallo> lakin: hehe :-)
<zul> morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> Nafallo: no, are the repos open?
<LaserJock> hi zul
<Nafallo> LaserJock: yepp. base-files and debootstrap is new ;-)
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> I actually tend to wait for a while
<LaserJock> since all of my computers are sort of production machines
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<luisbg> Nafallo, is feisty open?
<Nafallo> luisbg: yes
<luisbg> cool
<Nafallo> but like infinity said... the fun will not start before the new toolchain has been bootstraped :-)
<luisbg> Nafallo, when will that happen aprox?
<Nafallo> ASAP I guess
<Nafallo> next week or so
* plugwash copies his edgy chroot to make a feisty one
* Nafallo should figure out how to change architecture on his server this weekend then ;-)
<luisbg> architecture?
<Nafallo> x86 -> x86_64
<luisbg> ohhh
<Nafallo> without reinstall and with minimum downtime please ;-)
<luisbg> good luck
<LaserJock> I usually wait until the test .isos come out before I switch
<LaserJock> but I always need a pbuilder/chroot of course for packaging work
<Nafallo> probably something along the lines of debootstrap on my laptop, breaking the raid1 on the server, copy the chroot to the "faulty" drive and try to boot :-)
<plugwash> no easy way, minimum downtime way would probablly be to switch the kernel first, then set everything up in a chroot on a new partition then switch the boot partition over
<Nafallo> sure. but I can't set up the chroot since bin/bash in it will be for x86_64, which x86 can't read ;-)
<Nafallo> or rather execute
<plugwash> thats why you switch the kernel first
<plugwash> amd64 kernels can deal with both i386 and amd64 userland binaries
<Nafallo> hmm, right. but I prefer to have a clean fallback :-)
<Nafallo> so better to break my raid1 systemdisks :-)
<plugwash> switching the kernel to an amd64 one shouldn't cause your existing userland stuff any problems
<plugwash> Nafallo by open do you mean that feisty is accepting packages automatically from sid atm?
<luisbg> so you usually run the stable version and use a chroot to test and develop the unstable version right?
<Nafallo> plugwash: no. the new toolchain has to be bootstrapped.
<Nafallo> luisbg: if you're not as crazy as me ;-)
<luisbg> Nafallo, does it ever crash seriously or give any problem?
<Nafallo> luisbg: ofcourse. that's the fun with running the devel version :-)
<plugwash> i dunno how bad ubuntu testing releases are but apparently sid breaks big time about once a year or so
<plugwash> by breaks big time i mean things like won't boot or can't log in normally
* Nafallo remembers hoary and breezy :-)
<luisbg> ouch
<luisbg> what do I do if I spot an unconfirmed bug that I think it shouldn't be confirmed because I think there is no bug at all?
<luisbg> it is a broken dependencies one, and checked the apt install and it didn't said anything but "yes to install"
<Nafallo> luisbg: login to pbuilder and try to install the package? :-)
<Toadstool> good morning MOTUs and MOTU wannabes!
<Nafallo> Toadstool: evening :-)
<Toadstool> hey Nafallo
<AstralJava> Hiya Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hi AstralJava
* Nafallo want to merge stuff :-P
<Toadstool> heh
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I can prepare :-)
<geser> luisbg: check if you use the same arch as the reporter as the broken dependency can be arch-specific (because the last upload ftbfs on this arch)
<Toadstool> luisbg: bug number?
<luisbg> it's edgy and any architecture
<luisbg> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnunet-gtk/+bug/68753
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68753 in gnunet-gtk "missing dependency libgmp3c2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<geser> luisbg: this is not about a broken dependency (uninstallable package) but about a missing dependency (installable but not runable)
<luisbg> ooooh
<luisbg> let me check one thing then
<luisbg> it started without problems without the "missing dependency"
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> how do I use grab-merge.sh? ;-)
<geser> call it with a source package listed on merges.ubuntu.com
<luisbg> geser, should I leave a comment that I repeated the steps of the bug submitter and had no problem at post-install?
* LaserJock throws golden ponies around the channel
<Nafallo> didn't download anything :-P
<luisbg> http://www.amyjiangsu.com/?p=21 <--- I want that shirt and sweater
<geser> luisbg: yes, add a comment
<Nafallo> aha!
<luisbg> geser, ok cool
* Nafallo feels a bit dumb now :-)
<geser> Nafallo: I tested grab-merge.sh apt-file and it works here
<geser> call it in a clean directory as it does rm -rf *
<Nafallo> geser: I tried one of the manual merges that doesn't exist as a merge-report ;-)
<luisbg> I'm clearsigning my comments at launchpad, plus writing my name and 822-date on them
<luisbg> but now that I think about it...my name and the date appears in the title of the comment
<luisbg> am I being dumb?
<luisbg> feels a little redundant
<geser> and as long as your key isn't integrated into the web of trust a signed comment doesn't gain much
<LaserJock> hmm, this is frustrating, I can never remember which email address I signed up to a mailing list with
<LaserJock> so I end up sending a reply with a wrong "From" and get rejected
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea i hate that
<imbrandon> that one of the main reasons i've mostly tried to give out only one address and cut back on the others
<imbrandon> sucks for spam, but if you have decient filters seems ok, i only end up with 1 or 2 messages a day in my inbox
<LaserJock> well I separate chemistry and Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but sometimes it's chemistry software
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> ok resent from right address :/
<imbrandon> LaserJock, :)
<imbrandon> i still have one email list i need to "fix" by re-subscribing with the correct address
<LaserJock> well, I think I have all the mailing lists subscribed with my @ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> yea i have all but one, infact i'm fixing that now that its on my mind
<LaserJock> I didn't think I did with this one because it's chemistry software, but I guess I did
<imbrandon> with @kubuntu.org
<LaserJock> yeah, I could switch it up with @edubuntu.org ;-)
<LaserJock> but then I'd really be in trouble
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> well my @kubuntu.org worked before the @ubuntu.com one did ( but does now ) never tried @xubuntu.* or @edubuntu.*
<imbrandon> but mosty i use @imbrandon.com cept to email lists
<Toadstool> luisbg: was libgmp3c2 already installed on your system when you tried to install gnunet-gtk?
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> I wonder where MoM got tulip=2.0.6-4 from :-/
<Nafallo> aha!
<Nafallo> new binary. so probably in Debian NEW :-P
<Toadstool> Nafallo: nope, I can't find it in NEW
<Nafallo> baah. odd.
<Nafallo> what happened to it then? :-P
<Toadstool> have you checked in experimental?
<Nafallo> p.d.o/src:tulip finds it only in testing and unstable
<Nafallo> and that's -3
<Toadstool> uhuh
<Nafallo> pittis requestsync finds -4 ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, there is a really cool group of people building open source chemistry apps
<Toadstool> Nafallo: p.d.o info about tulip must be outdated 'cause:
<Toadstool> (sid)jcorbier@dedibox1:/tmp$ apt-cache showsrc tulip | grep ^Version:
<Toadstool> Version: 2.0.6-4
<LaserJock> but around half of the projects use Java
<Nafallo> http://changelogs.debian.net/tulip
<Nafallo> ah, right
<Nafallo> uses p.d.o :-P
<Toadstool> heh
<LaserJock> so how Free is open source software written in Java ?
<Nafallo> who can kick p.d.o then? ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, imho its really not as there is no opensource java from Sun ( unlike c# that many complain about that is a ecma standard )
<imbrandon> s/not/none
<rgl> hello
<imbrandon> hello
<geser> Nafallo: I usually use p.qa.d.o
<LaserJock> imbrandon: they seem to not care as the actual software they are writing is FLOSS
<imbrandon> LaserJock, thats all gravy, untill you try to compile or use it :)
<Nafallo> geser: the scripts doesn't. or rather cl.d.o doesn't ;-)
<imbrandon> i mean i certainly dont care either way, but for purist , you know
<rgl> I would like to package http://raa.ruby-lang.org/project/daemons, can you guys help me get started?  like, point me to the docs on getting a ruby packaged
<imbrandon> rgl, sure have you read the regular package guide ?
<imbrandon> !package guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<imbrandon> rgl, ^^ if not theres the link
<imbrandon> and we can try to help with specific questions
<imbrandon> brb , soda break ( or pop for LaserJock's ears )
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> heh
<rgl> imbrandon, I've read the general debian maintainer guide, but I didn't find enough stuff about packing ruby programs :(
<geser> Nafallo: in such case you can also read the new changelog entries in the "accepted" news entries on p.qa.d.o
<Nafallo> okidoki. will try that then, thanks :-)
<LaserJock> rgl: I'd real the Ubuntu Packaging Guide and if that's not enough get a hold of a ruby packager like lucas
<LaserJock> s/real/read/
<rgl> LaserJock, what is "lucas"?
<LaserJock> lucas is a person
<LaserJock> :-)
<rgl> ops sorry :)
<Nafallo> geser: doesn't have never changelog than -3 ;-)
<rgl> LaserJock, how can I talk with him? eg, got an email?  mailing list?
<geser> Nafallo: read the missing entries in http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tulip/news/20061025T135544Z.html or in the diff.gz
<LaserJock> rgl: well, he's sometimes here but https://launchpad.net/people/lucas has is contact info
<LaserJock> *his
<Nafallo> geser: I'll just use the output from merges.ubuntu.com then :-)
<rgl> LaserJock, so he is the ruby guy on ubuntu?
<LaserJock> yeah, also does a lot of ruby in Debian too
<rgl> I see.  thanks :)
<imbrandon> i hate election season, there is never anything good on the news ( other than stocks hitting 12k )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: 12k? wow
<imbrandon> yea closed over 12k the last few days last week
<imbrandon> infact 12100+ i think atm
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> I'll be glad for the elections to be over too
<LaserJock> too many ads and too many people calling me
<imbrandon> infact by all accounts the ecconemy is rockin but bush ( maybe rightly so ) is catching hell for iraq
<bhale> if you want to cry about iraq, at least blame congress
<imbrandon> un-empyment is under 4% and the exchange over 12k etc
<imbrandon> bhale, yea
<bhale> there is more than one guy in the government, people are awfully confused over this
<bhale> too complicated for them 3 branches of government, I guess
<Nafallo> dudes...
<Nafallo> do we still have that page that looks who works on what merges? :-)
<Toadstool> Nafallo: it still exists somewhere on tiber iirc but it is not updated anymore
<Nafallo> ah, so ppl should look on all my bugs then :-)
<Toadstool> :)
* Nafallo tries to do them all before the toolchain is bootstrapped ;-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo, heh
* Nafallo creates fresh base.tgz for the last three :-)
<imbrandon> heh i made a feisty pbuilder a day or so ago
<imbrandon> debbootstrap just dot updated a while ago
<imbrandon> dunno why its not comming accross -changes though
<imbrandon> or my subscription is messed up
<Nafallo> infinity said the list is still moderated for the launchpad e-mails as well :-)
<Nafallo> probably anyway
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> that would explain it
<Nafallo> indeed
<Nafallo> bddebian: start doing merges barry!! :-D
<giskard> hi Nafallo bddebian
<Nafallo> hi giskard :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: hi btw :-)
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Nafallo, giskard, imbrandon
<bddebian> Nafallo: Already?? :-)
<Nafallo> bddebian: we can't upload them until the toolchain is bootstrapped but... ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<Nafallo> bddebian: I'm filing sync-bugs :-P
<imbrandon> Nafallo, already ? wont they auto sync ?
<imbrandon> or you mean the ones showing up on mer lists
<Nafallo> imbrandon: not the ones with changes we can drop :-)
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<superm1> Hey guys, is there anything in particular that needs to be done for a package to actually trigger an update-notifier to go off?  I've copied the update notification file into /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d, but I'm not sure what else needs to be done to trigger
<ajmitch> morning all
<superm1> morning ajmitch
<tritium> Good morning, ajmitch
<Nafallo> ajmitch: evening :-)
<tritium> Yeah, afternoon!
<ajmitch> nice & quiet weekend on irc
<tritium> pftt, are you not in #ubuntu?
<ajmitch> I ignore #ubuntu as much as possible :)
<ajmitch> important channels for me to read are this & -devel :)
<tritium> good time to do so, given all the upgrade troubles
<superm1> ajmitch, do you have any ideas about my last message about update-notifier?
<lophyte> hey superm1
<superm1> hey lophyte
<ajmitch> superm1: nope
<superm1> oh :(
<superm1> i was trying to copy the way FF did theirs, I must be missing something
<superm1> lophyte, any news about your myth box?
<lophyte> superm1: nope, lol
<superm1> haha
<lophyte> I called fedex and they said they have no record of a shipment to me on the supposed ship dates
<superm1> i'd be flying to the states and kicking this guys butt
<lophyte> I told my friend that, and he got all pissed off at his room mate
<lophyte> he gave the box to his room mate to ship
<lophyte> so I guess his room mate took off with it or something
<superm1> are you serious?
<lophyte> meh.. no loss for me
<lophyte> just lost excitement :P
<superm1> well didn't you pay him for it though?
<lophyte> no
<lophyte> I told him I'd pay him when he gave me the shipping cost/tracking #
<lophyte> which he never gave me
<superm1> oh well thats good then.
<superm1> so whats your plan now then?
<lophyte> I'm not sure yet.. gonna find out what's up with his room mate
<lophyte> if not, I'll look for a box locally
<Determinist> !w32codecs
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<superm1> well good luck with that then
<superm1> i put a bunch of more work into the wiki since we last talked though.  and i'm starting to get feedback from people about things missing and such
<superm1> me and vmware-player have been pretty friendly :)
<lophyte> AWESOME
<lophyte> er
<lophyte> sorry, caps
<lophyte> there's a mythtv workshop at the linuxcaffe next saturday
<lophyte> i was thinking about going
<superm1> oh yea?
<superm1> wait.... a lug?
<superm1> i know someone else going to the toronto one next week
<lophyte> its being put on by the tlug, i think
<superm1> yea i'm trying to get him to use edgy for it
<lophyte> hehe
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, ping
<lophyte> I think they're basing most of it on knoppmyth
<superm1> yea thats what he said, but he is pushing.  if you go, his name is Michael Macleod
<superm1> tell him i say hello
<lophyte> cool
<superm1> small world :)
<lophyte> indeed
<superm1> only problem is knoppmyth is still .19 based right now i think
<superm1> last i talked to cecil
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, i just sent you an forwarded email
<imbrandon> wasent sure when you would be arround :)
<imbrandon> it was something for the next UWN
<tritium> Another problem with knoppmyth is that it's not well-suited for installing on a sata drive
<superm1> during a dist-upgrade from LTS to edgy, is edgy-updates going to automatically be enabled?
<superm1> as in if something was submitted to edgy updates, people upgrading should get that update
<imbrandon> as long as they upgrade in a recomended way , yes
<superm1> okay, well i have a patch that resolves some mysql issues people have been having with dist-upgrades with myth installed
<superm1> would you be able to look it over?
<superm1> bug 68400
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68400 in mythtv ""Could not install the upgrades" - installArchives() failed" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68400
<imbrandon> it needs to go throught the SRU at this point
<superm1> SRU?
<imbrandon> stable release updates
<superm1> well then what is the process for getting it pushed through SRU?
<imbrandon> lemme find the url
<imbrandon> !sru
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sru - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
* imbrandon looks
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<superm1> ah yea just found that myself
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: got it
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: I am on fridge-devel as well
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, great, wasent sure
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgundavia> no worries
<superm1> thanks
<imbrandon> rockin , got xdmcp working
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-29
<jikanter> could someone point me in the direction of the ubuntu/debian python policy guide?
<imbrandon> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=debian+python+policy&btnG=Google+Search
<imbrandon> first result
<imbrandon> :)
<jikanter> thanks
<jikanter> not what I got
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: how are you doing?
<bddebian> Strung out man, how about you?
<bddebian> Settling down during the transition at all, or still going full bore?
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> I've got the inlaws here
<LaserJock> and and a few project deadlines fast approaching
<LaserJock> but other then that I'm chillin'
<bddebian> Cool
<joejaxx> hey LaserJock i just tried to build a package but during the dpkg-buildpackage process it errors with make: *** [binary-indep]  Error 1
<LaserJock> joejaxx: need more context, pastebin the output
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://fluxbuntu.org/blah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: sorry the pastebin whould not except it
<joejaxx> i guess there was some syntax inside the paste that mysql thought was part of a query
<LaserJock> joejaxx: are you sure you're making fluxbuntu-{minimal standard desktop live}?
<joejaxx> yes
<LaserJock> it'd dying on dh_testdir
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I think the man page gives a clue
<joejaxx> i am in the correct directory
<joejaxx> the source directory
<joejaxx> there is also a debian folder :)
<joejaxx> with all the required files
<LaserJock> well, when you build multiple binaries you are using multiple folders
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i never had to create folders before
<LaserJock> no, I'm not saying you have to create them
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if the right ones are being created
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what should i do?
<joejaxx> maybe i will debstrap a dapper environment and build it in there
<LaserJock> joejaxx: that probably won't change anything
<LaserJock> although you should be building it with pbuilder
<LaserJock> I'd try to run the install rule
<minghua> yeah, most likely the install rule installed files to wrong place
<LaserJock> I can't quite figure out which rule it's dying in from just looking at the log
<minghua> s/install rule/build rule/
<minghua> is the source package somewhere?
<joejaxx> minghua: the rule file is exactly like the Ubuntu-meta rule file
<joejaxx> except instead of ubuntu-$$seeds its fluxbuntu-$$seeds
<joejaxx> minghua: no it is not :\
<minghua> well, basically to build a fluxbutu-anything package, you need to have a Package: fluxbutu-anything stanta in debian/control, and before the binary rule is called, you need to have a debian/fluxbutu-anything/ directory with all the contents of the package in it
<minghua> it seems you screwed up somewhere
<joejaxx> minghua: i have never had to create that folder :\
<joejaxx> debian/fluxbuntu-anything
<joejaxx> debian/fluxbuntu-anything/    *
<joejaxx> the package builds fine when i am on edgy
<minghua> oh I see
<joejaxx> now i am back on dapper
<joejaxx> and it does not
<minghua> I didn't know it's a dapper-only issue
<minghua> does it build fine in an edgy pbuilder?
<joejaxx> yeap just like the at package is an edgy only issue
<joejaxx> minghua: i do not use pbuilder
<joejaxx> minghua: sudo dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -kKEYHERE
<minghua> joejaxx: you should
<joejaxx> minghua: i have been using that since i read the Debian New Maintainers Guide a while back
<joejaxx> never came across anything about pbuilder
<LaserJock> joejaxx: use pbuilder, I won't sponsor you packages if you don't ;-p
<joejaxx> i do not know how to use pbuilder
<minghua> if you don't use pbuilder, you can never be sure your build dependency is correct
<minghua> it's simple as that
<LaserJock> joejaxx: the Ubuntu Packaging Guide has info
<joejaxx> why is there nothing about pbuilder in the Debian New Maintainers Guide? lol
<LaserJock> because I didn't write the Debian New Maintainers Guide ;-)
<joejaxx> so i should not be using dpkg-buildpackage that is interesting
<minghua> and just for the justice, Debian NM Guide does mention and recommend pbuilder: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-checkit.en.html#s-pbuilder
<LaserJock> joejaxx: don't use dpkg-buildpackage to build your .debs
<joejaxx> minghua: checking the package lol
<joejaxx> the package is not built
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh alright
<minghua> and that chapter is _before_ "uploading the package" ;-)
<LaserJock> use dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakroot (or more simply debuild -S ) to build your source package
<joejaxx> minghua: cannot upload what you cannot build :P
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> i will try pbuilder
<minghua> joejaxx: did you build it in your edgy or not?
<joejaxx> yes it built fine and installs fine on edgy :)
<joejaxx> but for some reason not dapper
<LaserJock> joejaxx: pbuilders will also allow you to take you install to install differences
<LaserJock> you don't know if it doesn't build in Dapper because of something different in your installation or becuase of the package itself
<minghua> well, then it does build.  then you can't build it in dapper, which means something is wrong with the package, and the pbuilder section is in "checking the package for errors", which IMHO is a perfect place
* joejaxx recodes all his previous maintainer knowledge
<joejaxx> maybe someone used dpkg-buildpackage to build the at package too
<joejaxx> and maybe that is why it works on dapper and not edgy
<minghua> joejaxx: all the official packages are built in an environment similar to pbuilder, so your guess on at package is not correct
<joejaxx> minghua: it does not install in a debootstrap environment
<joejaxx> :\
<LaserJock> what doesn't install?
<joejaxx> well bbl now i have to figure out how to build meta packages with pbuilder without source lol
<joejaxx> LaserJock: at
<joejaxx> bll
<joejaxx> bbl
<LaserJock> joejaxx: woah, how do you not have source?
<joejaxx> i do not have a fluxbuntu-*.tar.gz
<LaserJock> what do you have?
<joejaxx> it is a metapackage
<LaserJock> if you do dpkg-buildpackage it will first make a source package I believe
<LaserJock> maybe not
<LaserJock> a metapackage still has source
<joejaxx> hmm maybe i am just using the wrong terminology
<LaserJock> you should have a .dsc and .tar.gz file
<joejaxx> how can i have those before i build the package?
<LaserJock> that is a source package
<LaserJock> not a binary package
<minghua> dpkg-buildpackage -S, as LaserJock has mentioned
<joejaxx> but you told me not to use that
<LaserJock> you *should* have a source package
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we told you not to use dpkg-buildpackage directly
<LaserJock> I told you to use dpkg-buildpckage -S to build a source package
<joejaxx> is pbuilder used like this ins debian also?
<joejaxx> in*
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> using pbuilder will make you're life easier
<LaserJock> and make your packages saner :-)
<LaserJock> so it's all around a good thing
<joejaxx> where is this Ubuntu New Maintainers Guide?
<rmjb> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<rmjb> I'm learning too
<LaserJock> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<LaserJock> doh, didn't see rmjb's link
<rmjb> need some advice guys, I'm backing up to do a fresh install of edgy, i've backed up my gpg key with http://wiki.openskills.net/OpenSkills/OpenPGP+Key+Backup
<rmjb> to backup my ssh keys I just copy the files?
<minghua> copy your ~/.gnupg over should work
<minghua> (I didn't check the URL)
<LaserJock> yeah, I just tar up .gnupg and .ssh
<rmjb> oh, cool, well I'll just do that then
* joejaxx bangs his head on the wall
<LaserJock> uh oh, that's not good
<joejaxx> same error with pbuilder
<LaserJock> that doesn't surprise me
<LaserJock> but now you have a source package?
<joejaxx> you mean a dsc?
<LaserJock> well, the .dsc and .tar.gz
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> good, put them on the web were I can get them
<minghua> doesn't surprise me either, I suspected missing build-depends in the first place
<joejaxx> Build-Depends: debhelper (>=4)
<joejaxx> same as ubuntu-meta
<minghua> (oh, considering there is no source package when you build the package in edgy, maybe not build dependency)
<LaserJock> my money's on debian/control
<LaserJock> ;-)
<minghua> (dpkg-buildpackge should give you source package as well)
<joejaxx> it does
<joejaxx> which is why there are source packages in the fluxbuntu repos for edgy
<joejaxx> http://archive.fluxbuntu.net/fluxbuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/
<joejaxx> have fun
<minghua> <joejaxx> i do not have a fluxbuntu-*.tar.gz
<minghua> that's what I was commenting on
<LaserJock> joejaxx: heh, I'm glad you are turning over the copyright to your packages to Canonical ;-)
<joejaxx> the update does that automatically does it not?
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> actually i have to talk to canonical about that
<joejaxx> technically i have a pending trademark
<rmjb> when I run dh_make -e ... and it asks s/m/l/k/b then asks to confirm a bunch of information... how do I change that information before I confirm?
<joejaxx> rmjb: what like the name?
<joejaxx> etc?
<rmjb> yeah to start
<rmjb> and the license
<joejaxx>  -c to specific the copyright file
<joejaxx> or license
<LaserJock> I don't know that you can edit it, but it's pretty easy to edit it after the fact or whip out debian/ and  do it again
<joejaxx> export $DEBFULLNAME='Joseph Jackson IV'     <<rmjb
<joejaxx> you can put that in your .bashrc file
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm wondering if this is a debhelper problem
<joejaxx> oh ok
<rmjb> thanks guys
<rmjb> sf.net projects usually have an announce mailing list don't they?
<joejaxx> rmjb: you are most welcome
<joejaxx> rmjb: i think they do
<minghua> LaserJock: dh_make does NOT belong to debhelper (and IMHO packaging guides just shouldn't recommend dh_make anymore)
<LaserJock> minghua: perhaps
<LaserJock> it is nice to have templates, although I don't like some of the stuff in debian/rules
<LaserJock> and I didn't say dh_make belonged to debhelper :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, I figure that I misread your "I'm wondering if this is a debhelper problem" now :-S
<minghua> s/figure/have figured/
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, I was talking about joejaxx's problem with dh_testdir
* minghua is never sure about grammar
<LaserJock> ok, well ubuntu-meta builds in dapper
<LaserJock> so now I'm thinking it must be in the fluxbuntu package
<joejaxx> yay my package is broken
<LaserJock> joejaxx: found it
<joejaxx> yay
<joejaxx> what was it?
<joejaxx> fluxbuntu-* not being in the depends?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> ok, so what rule in debian/rules is it dying on?
<joejaxx> make: *** [binary-indep]  Error 1
<LaserJock> so it's dying on binary-indep
<LaserJock> what is binary-indep for?
* joejaxx wonders
<LaserJock> building arch independent .debs
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> are you building arch independent .debs?
<joejaxx> i hope so
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> you aren't :-)
<joejaxx> why is that in the ubuntu-meta rule file?
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> your meta packages are different depending on arch
<LaserJock> i.e. fluxbuntu-desktop on i386 is different then on amd64
<joejaxx> but wait
<joejaxx> why does ubuntu-meta build then?
<LaserJock> ubuntu-base
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the depends are pulled from seed just like ubuntu-meta
<LaserJock> is a transitional dummy package built by ubuntu-meta
<LaserJock> that is arch independent
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so i need to put that?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> in fact you already are building too many met packages
<LaserJock> you really should only need fluxbuntu-desktop
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what do you mean?
<joejaxx> i cannot use ubuntu-live
<LaserJock> well, fluxbuntu-live too, until edgy
<LaserJock> edgy won't use it
<joejaxx> it comes with the gnome language support files
<joejaxx> which i do not need
<joejaxx> edgy?
<LaserJock> but I don't think you need -minimal and -standard
<LaserJock> Edgy doesn't use metapackages for -live
<LaserJock> it uses tasksel
<joejaxx> oh i am not building fluxbuntu for edgy
<LaserJock> but when you do you'll have to look at that
<joejaxx> which is why i spent the time today converting the fluxbuntu seeds from edgy to dapper
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<LaserJock> ok, so back to the problem
<LaserJock> you are telling it to build arch independent .debs in debian/rules
<LaserJock> but you don't specify any arch independent packages in debian/control
<LaserJock> soo
<LaserJock> you can take out the stuff in binary-indep as they aren't needed
<joejaxx> so i need to change Architecture: Any to All
<LaserJock> no
<joejaxx> well i want to build independent debs
<LaserJock> you don't want to build arch independent packages do you?
<LaserJock> why?
<joejaxx> how else am i going to build powerpc livecd?
<joejaxx> livecds*
<joejaxx> amd64 and ia64 also
<LaserJock> buy having a ppc .deb
<LaserJock> arch independent means the package does not depend on architecture
<LaserJock> your meta packages *do* depend on architecture
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> desktop-i386 is different then desktop-ppc
<LaserJock> right?
<joejaxx> yes
<LaserJock> there you go
<joejaxx> so i need to take that whole section out of the rule file?
<LaserJock> yes, but don't take out the first line
<LaserJock> leave binary-indep there
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> now the more interesting thing is why it didn't have a problem in edgy
<LaserJock> I believe it is because debhelper has changed
<LaserJock> so it errored out in Dapper, but just warns in Edgy
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> let me try this
<LaserJock> the same thing happens in both cases
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> so now before i had to go in a edit the rule file to build to a specific arch
<joejaxx> how can i make it build all of them
<joejaxx> instead of going back to change that line
<joejaxx> after i build an arch to build the next one
<rmjb> if I'm packaging a java app, it's preferable to use gcj instead of java during the build?
<LaserJock> rmjb: yes
<LaserJock> rmjb: sun's java is in Multiverse
<rmjb> ok
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what line?
<joejaxx> DEB_BUILD_ARCH:=$(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH)
<joejaxx> instead of having that i whould have to
<joejaxx> DEB_CUILD_ARCJ:=i386
<LaserJock> oh, well normally you upload to the Ubuntu build machines
<LaserJock> and they would build them for you
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes but i have machines here to build them
<joejaxx> so just give the source to each one?
<LaserJock> then you should be able to just build them
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it just takes the arch from each machine
<joejaxx> LaserJock: does the arch of the build machine matter when it comes to metas?
<LaserJock> well, a ppc machine will build the ppc debs
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes but i mean if you build ppc debs on a i386
<LaserJock> amd64 can build both amd64 and i386
<joejaxx> a meta package that is
<LaserJock> you basically can't do that
<LaserJock> in reality you can rig up a cross compiler in pbuilder
<LaserJock> imbrandon has done that I believe
<LaserJock> but it's tough
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but what i am wondering is
<joejaxx> if there is no actually compiling going on for the meta packages
<LaserJock> ah
<joejaxx> why does the arch of the machine matter?
<LaserJock> well, I suppose it might not in this case
<joejaxx> build machine*
<joejaxx> i know you need seperate machine arch swhen building a regular packages :P
<joejaxx> archs when*
<joejaxx> -a
<rmjb> what's a sane dependency for gcj? just gcj or gcj-base?
<LaserJock> rmjb: not sure
<rmjb> (gcj needs 42MB of packages...)
<LaserJock> you might want to look at an existing package
<rmjb> good idea
<LaserJock> joejaxx: so in reality it doesn't matter I guess for these metapackages
<joejaxx> i should change DEB_BUILD_ARCH:=$(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) to DEB_BUILD_ARCH:=$(shell echo ARCHBUILD)
<joejaxx> ../ARCHBUILD that is
<joejaxx> so it pulls the arch that i specify in that file
<joejaxx> instead of dpkg-architecture
<LaserJock> well, but then you are still messing with the source package each time you build on a different arch
<LaserJock> I'd rather have a ppc machine build ppc
<LaserJock> and an amd64 machine build i386 and amd64
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but how whould i be messing with the source package if it pulls from that file?
<joejaxx> that is on the outside of the source directory
<LaserJock> a file that would have to change with each arch, no?
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> but it is on the outside of the source directory
<LaserJock> that sounds like a bad idea
<LaserJock> because then your source package depends on a file outside of itself
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<LaserJock> and outside the package management system
<LaserJock> for you're own personal use it wouldn't be a big deal
<LaserJock> but I would personally not use it for anything I distribute
<LaserJock> this is also a reason why Ichthux does its development within Universe
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> so we can let Ubuntu build machines do the building for us :-)
<joejaxx> Ichthux?
<joejaxx> what is that?
<LaserJock> Kubuntu derivative
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> what is the project goal?
<LaserJock> I thought you were talking with the project devs
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> raphink
<joejaxx> i have never heard of that project
* joejaxx goes to google
<LaserJock> it's a Kubuntu derivative targeted towards Christian users and organizations
<LaserJock> it's done by Ubuntu and Debian developers
<LaserJock> and is in Universe
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> www.ichthux.com
<joejaxx> so that is why it is named that
<LaserJock> so that's why I've been trying to help out with Fluxbuntu and UbuntuStudio, I've been doing some similar work
<joejaxx> yeah i have never heard of that project before until you said something about it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok :)
<LaserJock> ok, I thought I had mentioned it
<joejaxx> nope not until now :)
<LaserJock> anyway, we've done what you are doing now
<LaserJock> we built a Dapper based release last month
<LaserJock> and are shortly releasing the Edgy version
<joejaxx> oh ok that is good
<LaserJock> as soon as we get the -live stuff figured out properly
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> I guess the new way of using tasks made it more difficult to build the .iso
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> fluxbuntu releases are going to be dapper until edgy+1 comes out
<LaserJock> why is that?
<joejaxx> instability
<LaserJock> but edgy is more stable
<LaserJock> well, at least for many people
<LaserJock> have you found instability?
<joejaxx> not for alot of the fluxbuntu users that use ubuntu also
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i have
<joejaxx> gnome (nautilus) crashed twice
<joejaxx> firefox 14 times
<LaserJock> interesting
<joejaxx> and that is edgy stable/final
<LaserJock> hmm, how odd
* StevenK is pondering upgrading this machine to edgy.
<joejaxx> and i am not the only one experiencing that
<LaserJock> Edgy is all around much nicer for me and most of the people I've talked to
<LaserJock> but that's not a whole lot of people
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> the other reason was most of the updates were to gnome
<LaserJock> in fact I wish they hadn't use the "Long Term Support" term with Dapper because then people think that Edgy is a totally unstable, crackful, use-at-your-own-risk release
<joejaxx> or that is how it was projected to be on the wiki
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I thought stuff like upstart would be useful for fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah any new stuff with gnome whould not be useful for fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the other thing was apt
<joejaxx> a while back apt-get was destroying stuff
<LaserJock> yeah, there was some interesting new stuff with apt
<joejaxx> but it seems that problem was fixed
<LaserJock> the other thing is preserving an upgrade path
<joejaxx> you mean for people who want to install fluxbuntu-desktop?
<LaserJock> going to dapper to dapper+2 will greating reduce the chances of a successful upgrade
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> well i rather have a stabe fluxbuntu
<LaserJock> but it should be as stable as Ubuntu
<joejaxx> then update to edgy and have multiple tickets about things crashing or not working
<LaserJock> which is pretty stable
<LaserJock> ok, but you'd rather break the upgrade path for your Edgy+1 users?
<joejaxx> edgy+1?
<joejaxx> dapper+1?
<LaserJock> dapper+1 = edgy
<joejaxx> if they are edgy+1 users that means they have fawn
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but there is no reason to think feisty will be any more stable then edgy
<joejaxx> why whould they have to upgrade to fawn if there is already a fawn fluxbuntu release
<StevenK> LaserJock: dapper+2 = feisty
<LaserJock> StevenK: exactly
<joejaxx> LaserJock: exactly
<joejaxx> LaserJock: which is why i am waiting
<StevenK> Why don't you debug the crashes and provide patches in -updates?
<LaserJock> how are Dapper Fluxbuntu people going to upgrade to Feisty Fluxbuntu?
<rmjb> joejaxx: I think he saying that skipping edgy will make going from dapper to fawn trickier
<joejaxx> people have come to me and have asked "are we switching to edgy" and i tell them no and most of the response is "good"
<LaserJock> and how do you know feisty will be any more stable then edgy?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i do not know
<joejaxx> but i know at this point
<LaserJock> they can run Dapper if they want
<rmjb> no reason fluxbuntu couldn't release an edgy upgrade mid cycle, when edgy "settles"
<joejaxx> dapper is stabler then edgy
<LaserJock> joejaxx: not necessarily, in some cases maybe
* StevenK notes Edgy behaves better than Dapper on his laptop.
<StevenK> Which reminds me, I want Dapper on my file server.
<rmjb> dapper's just more settled, I like the new things in edgy... but they're gnome things
<LaserJock> regardless, I think you should think about your upgrade path
<LaserJock> KDE's got great things
<joejaxx> kde?
<LaserJock> and I *know* science apps are much more stable in Edgy
<rmjb> don't use kubuntu unfortunately... will try it out though
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is that it's not just Gnome
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what are you going to do for Dapper Fluxbuntu users when Feisty Fluxbuntu comes out?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: so you are saying you whould rather have people upgrade to something that crashes then stay with a stable distro?
<rmjb> other topic: if a source pacakge has .am Makefiles, it still makes sense to use cdbs, or stick with debhelper?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: people know there is not a way to upgrade right now
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm saying you probably should support all Ubuntu release
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it has been made quite clear
<LaserJock> rmjb: well cdbs just uses debhelper so I don't think there is a distinct advantage
<StevenK> Then again, Dapper -> Feisty may well be supported, given Dapper's LTS standing.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: all of the fluxbuntu releases have been developmental
<joejaxx> people are waiting for a stable
<rmjb> from the packager's guide is says the rules file is simpler... but since this is my first real package (and not an update) I'll stick with debhelper
<LaserJock> I just don't know why people care about LTS so much
<LaserJock> it doesn't necessarily mean it's more stable
<rmjb> I'm keeping my file/cups server on lts...because it's lts :-/
<LaserJock> it just mean Canonical is willing to support it for longer
<rmjb> but if I want to put myth on it... I'll be tempted to upgrade
<LaserJock> we tried to make it as stable as possible
<LaserJock> but we try to do that with all releases
* StevenK agrees with LaserJock.
<LaserJock> edgy had just the same amount of stabilization time
<LaserJock> as dapper
<LaserJock> Dapper is LTS because we had a lot of improvements over Breezy
<LaserJock> and it looked like things overall were more stable
<LaserJock> but Edgy builds on top of those changes, it's not like we just dumped all the improvements made in Dapper
<LaserJock> so yeah, if I was running a critical server I'd use Dapper to get longer support
<LaserJock> in -security and -updates
<LaserJock> but I really don't see any reason why desktop users should shy away from Edgy
<poningru> and this is fear of update is compounded by couple of digg stories
<poningru> the update nightmare stories
<rmjb> this release should have been the blingbuntu one... too bad it only had 4 months
<rmjb> if it was more people would look past the FUD
<rmjb> what's the pbuilder option to leave the base.tgz open when done?
<minghua> I suppose if you use only stuff in main edgy is better than dapper
<minghua> otherwise I'll recommend people to stay with dapper
<luisbg> hey all
<Hobbsee> rmjb: --save-after-login?  or you mean drop to a shell inside the pbuilder if it fails to build?
<Hobbsee> hey luisbg
<rmjb> Hobbsee: a shell in pbuilder is possible?!? tell me more...
<minghua> Hobbsee: I think rmjb mean not cleaning things in /var/cache/pbuilder/build/xxx/
<minghua> Hobbsee: while I remember --save-after-login means keeping you changes in base.tgz
<Hobbsee> oh yeah
<minghua> rmjb: read pbuilder(8) man page and search for "login"
<rmjb> ok
<Hobbsee> rmjb: yeah, pbuilder hooks will let you do that
<Hobbsee> minghua: there's a pbuilder hook for it - drop to a shell inside the pbuilder if it ftbfs
<Hobbsee> which is even easier than pbuilder login
<minghua> Hobbsee: thanks.  I know hooks are possible, never used it though
<minghua> rmjb: yeah, my reply was probably a bit misleading, sorry
<Hobbsee> minghua: i like the one that checks for installability, etc :)
* minghua hugs his debi
<_MMA_> Laserjock: You there?
<minghua> although auto-checking for installability is handy, I admit
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yeah
<_MMA_> "but I really don't see any reason why desktop users should shy away from Edgy"
<_MMA_> For me, I only went to Edgy on 1 out of 5 machines because they all have nvidia cards. I need the restricted modules. When I use them, my USB devices are detected less than half the time. I have to restart till they get detected.
<rmjb> if something ftbfs, if I do a pbuilder login right after the failure will be in base.tgz?
<_MMA_> I was watching you and Joe talk.
<LaserJock> hmm
<minghua> rmjb: no.  in that case you need hooks as Hobbsee mentioned
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that kind of thing will get a -updates upload or not
<_MMA_> Without the modules Im fine.
<LaserJock> minghua: you think Universe isn't in better shape in Edgy?
<minghua> (you can always do a login and hand build again to reproduce FTBFS, of course)
<rmjb> I read about the hooks... I'll need to read it closer to understand it better...
<LaserJock> I have 4 machines and I run Edgy on 3 of them and they run better then Dapper
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, basically less testing
<LaserJock> minghua: but they had the same amount of testing
<LaserJock> more or less
<luisbg> hey LaserJock, 5:43 am here
<minghua> LaserJock: 4 month development cycle vs. 8 month development cycle is less testing to me
<LaserJock> but the Freezes were about the same
<minghua> LaserJock: but that's probably not the main point
<_MMA_> Laserjock: Once I get past that, Im cool. But damn if it aint annoying. I also did a clean install. I dont believe in upgrading over an existing system. :) Just me.
<minghua> LaserJock: I just got the general impression from browsing Chinese user forums
<LaserJock> anyway, I'm not going to say that Edgy is perfect
<LaserJock> but LTS is basically a Canonical thing
<rmjb> got to sleep, g'night all
<LaserJock> and people are going to be in an interesting position when Feisty comes out
<minghua> by the way does anybody know the upgrade policy for dapper? is dapper->(next LTS) upgrade patch supported?
<LaserJock> well I'm guessing the next LTS is probably at least 2 years down the road
<StevenK> Dapper+4 may not be LTS.
<minghua> (and if yes, what if dapper -> edgy -> feisty -> ... -> (next LTS) and dapper -> (next LTS) differ? :-P)
<LaserJock> 3-5 if Canonical doesn't want to support 2 LTS releases at the same time
<Burgundavia> minghua: lts --> lts is undecided
<minghua> Burgundavia: thanks
<minghua> I am just curious
<Burgundavia> I would widely expect to have the next lts at some point in about 2 years
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, that's why I would leave LTS to Canonical
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Burgundavia> probably 8.10
<LaserJock> but there's no way to know
<Burgundavia> no, there really isn't
<LaserJock> so I hate to see people riding on LTS
<LaserJock> for derivative development
<LaserJock> and desktop usres
<LaserJock> *users
<rmjb> LaserJock: as they want newer packages they'll upgrade, because new versions wont be backported... at least that's the impression I got
<minghua> LaserJock: I agree basing derivative development on LTS is silly
<Burgundavia> who is proposing such?
<Hobbsee> rmjb: no, they just expect packages to get backported, because it's LTS.  they're wrong.
<LaserJock> rmjb: backports will certainly be going for Edgy, maybe just not as much so
<rmjb> Hobbsee: I was thinking along those lines too, I was advised otherwise
<Hobbsee> rmjb: indeed.  but people still seem to think that.  actually, waht's more weird is when people whinge about the latest packages not being available for breezy.  BREEZY!!!!
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: here is what I would do: not have a stable fluxbuntu until feisty
<joejaxx> everyone here is assuming too mcuh
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: make your users track feisty, which gives you all that testing coverage
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: that is what i was planning to use
<joejaxx> exactly
<joejaxx> that was exactly whati was going to do
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: plus then you get all the dev work into ubuntu directly
<Burgundavia> plan for the "hit by the bus" event
<joejaxx> i never said i was going to stay with dapper because it was lts
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: yeah
<rmjb> Hobbsee: people coming from the Windows world will expect that... we didn't have to move from 2000 to XP to use Office XP... but in Linux, since a whole lot of the apps are part of the distro release, the upgrade with the distro
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: all of the releases up to this point have been developmental
<rmjb> it's just a mindset change
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: the stable is far from now anyway :)
<Hobbsee> rmjb: true that.  in the case of windows, almost none dist-upgrade anyway, so it's completely different.
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: Launch 1 or the equivalent to fawn final will be released when fawn comes out
<minghua> rmjb: I disagree.  You can always download newest firefox/OOo and install them independently
<Burgundavia> rmjb: new code == new bugs
<minghua> rmjb: that isn't different from windows scenario
<minghua> my opinion is some people just don't understand what "distribution" and "release" mean
* StevenK wishes people would stop calling Feisty "fawn"
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Same.
<Fujitsu> Let's talk about warthog, hedgehog, badger and drake!
<joejaxx> :\
<Fujitsu> It seems everyone is doing it...
* StevenK nods.
<minghua> fawn is easier to type than feisty
<Fujitsu> I even heard Kamion or somebody like that call it fawn a couple of days back :S
<StevenK> Yes, and drake is one letter less than dapper, but everyone calls it Dapper?
<minghua> StevenK: just kidding :-)
<StevenK> That's a crappy argument, and you know it.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: A whole lot of people even call it Drapper!
* StevenK twitches.
<minghua> yes, I know it
<joejaxx> why does Mr. Shuttleworth have two names for each release? that is like saying i have to call everyone by their first names instead of saying Mr. Soandso
<StevenK> It has one name: Ubuntu 6.10
<Fujitsu> Speaking of official names... Wouldn't it be a good idea to have numeric aliases in the archive?
<Burgundavia> it has a code name and release number
<Burgundavia> just like window
<Burgundavia> windows or os x
<Fujitsu> As the codename doesn't appear anywhere else...
<Fujitsu> Chicago!
<Burgundavia> longhorn?
<whiprush> people have always called it by the adjective though
<whiprush> not the noun
<whiprush> for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> because they are catchy
<whiprush> yes
<Fujitsu> whiprush: Yes, but who knows why... It is catchy, as Burgundavia said.
<Fujitsu> `I'm running Edgy' vs. `I'm running Eft' or `I'm running 6.10'
<minghua> I actually would prefer using the noun
<whiprush> the proper way is "I'm running 6.10"
<whiprush> the other stuff is for geeks like us
* StevenK likes using the adjective.
<Fujitsu> whiprush: Yes, but Edgy seems to sound better regardless.
<minghua> oh, and just to provide a perspective, most Chinese users just use the release number, even for the development branch
<minghua> because the words for the code name are just too hard :-)
<Fujitsu> Urgh.
<Fujitsu> The release number is really only for the final, but I guess the names can be a bit hard for foreigners.
<minghua> I don't think Chinese is special among the non-English speaking community
<minghua> then use some easy code names like testing and unstable :-)
* joejaxx regrets speaking
<joejaxx> now*
<Fujitsu> A lot of non-English speakers I've seen in #ubuntu say Drapper, which is strange... Where'd they pull that from?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: It has produced interesting discussion!
<joejaxx> not really
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Weird contraction of Dapper and Drake?
<joejaxx> all my statements are catalyst for debating conversations
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Probably, but... WTF!?
<joejaxx> just like in #ubuntu-offtopic
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Heh
<Fujitsu> #ubuntu-motu == #ubuntu-offtopic most of the time anyway :P
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: you should see what happens when beryl by default was mentioned.  that brought far more conversation than this
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: just amongst different people
<whiprush> heh
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and we do actually do some dev sutf fin here
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Urgh, you just had to bring that up again, didn't you?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I'd almost stuffed that out of my mind...
<Fujitsu> Dev stuff!?
<Fujitsu> Impossible.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yeah i just need to stop talking that is the solution
<Fujitsu> (well, rare, especially at this time)
<joejaxx> and asking questions*
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: of course!  :D  on that note, i rejected a beryl bug yesterday.  we need a preresponse for unsupported software
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: write one now, and add it to the page.  thankyou.  :)
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: gnome has a NOTGNOME one
<Burgundavia> we can probably adapt that
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i didnt see it.  that sounds good thoguh
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Sounds like a good ide.
<Fujitsu> *idea
<minghua> NOTGNOME is actually more kind, sometimes bug reporters can't really tell if it's a gtk bug or X bug
* Fujitsu discovers some great originality while studying for the Bio. exam tomorrow:
<Fujitsu> A type of frog living in Victoria: `Geocrina victoriana'
<Fujitsu> minghua: Yeah...
<Fujitsu> Or should we just start accepting bugs for things like Flash 9 and Beryl?
* Fujitsu ducks.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Sure. Assign them all to imbrandon.
<minghua> I think "rejected" is harsh enough
<crimsun> dude, SWEET. /me passes the Flash baton to imbrandon.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: He produced the packages :P
* StevenK grins and high fives crimsun.
<minghua> by the way do we have beryl packages?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Not AFAIK.
<Burgundavia> hopefully not
<minghua> but we have flash package in universe
* Burgundavia takes beryls and sends it swimming with the fishes
<Hobbsee> minghua: no, i'ts just the crack that they've installed themselves, then it breaks
<Fujitsu> So we're going to get this incredibly unstable, unpackaged software, and put it in main, and installed by default for Edgy, yay.
<StevenK> I think imbrandon is working on/has beryl packages.
<minghua> oh, Fujitsu said flash 9
<Fujitsu> minghua: Yes.
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, i've lost root access to imbrandon's machine
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I must dissuade him...
<Fujitsu> I've got access to two...
<minghua> yeah, then I think "Rejected" with "XXX is not from Ubuntu and can't be supported" is good enough
<Fujitsu> (not root access, but access all the same)
<minghua> while I feel "NOTUBUNTU" don't emphasize this point enough
<Hobbsee> oh no...he does have packages for it
* Fujitsu looks for a kernel root-exploit.
<Hobbsee> for some of it, at least
* Fujitsu collapses.
<Burgundavia> why not to support beryl --> "Soeren made a valiant attempt at taming compiz by getting it to honor many of the metacity settings,"
<whiprush> heh
<Fujitsu> Soeren being a beryl dev?
<whiprush> I just read that too
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: so soeren is working on compiz now
<Hobbsee> the control file doesnt look like it's on that much crack, fortunately
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Hopefully debian/copyright is bad enough to warrant trying him for high treason or so.
* Hobbsee looks
<jlmb> Hi, I've found this bug (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnochm/+bug/65020) which was already reported and even a patch was provided. I tested the patch and it solved the issue. How should I approach the situation? provide a comment that the patch indeed works or something?. thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65020 in gnochm "drag'n'drop uri need to be escaped" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<Hobbsee> !info gnochm edgy
<ubotu> gnochm: CHM file viewer for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.7-1 (edgy), package size 136 kB, installed size 700 kB
<Hobbsee> personally?  i'd send that to debian.
<minghua> debian has 0.9.8-1 BTW
<jlmb> Oh, this is the first time I'm reporting so...big noob here.
<Hobbsee> minghua: which means it will autosync, of course
<minghua> jlmb: don't worry, you are doing a good job here
<minghua> jlmb: do you know how to rebuild a package?
<jlmb> minghua: Not yet, I was about to read the docs.
<minghua> jlmb: don't worry then.  let me have a look at the debian package
<jlmb> minghua: if you don't mind pointing me to the right direction so next time I'm able to do more...that would be great.
<Hobbsee> minghua: going to NMU it?  :P
<minghua> Hobbsee: nah.  it's just I know gnochm's maintainer
<Hobbsee> minghua: ahh :)
<minghua> so helping him with his packages :-)
<Hobbsee> yep
<minghua> jlmb: let me see if I can find some wiki URL for you...
<Chandu> Fujitsu, hi
<Chandu> Fujitsu, good morning
<Chandu> hey , I have download motu-tools .. It contains some bash scripts and some python scripts ..
<Chandu> How do I work with those
<Chandu> How can I try for sync and merge with those scripts
<Chandu> From the documents I am not clear about automated merge ..What does it mean
<Chandu> Is it that ..debian packages will be automatically synced into ubuntu or merged into ubuntu without rebuid
<Hobbsee> Chandu: automatic syncs - they get built on ubuntu, and put straight into the archives without a version number change
<Hobbsee> only 25 merges?  that's pathetic!
<Fujitsu> Hi Chandu...
<Chandu> Hobbsee, get built on ubuntu means , debian source will be taken and will be rebuilt for ubuntus future release and if working fine will get synced
<Hobbsee> Chandu: actually, i dont think it checks if it builds or not - it syncs, and then ubuntu builds the binaries
<Hobbsee> ie, sync first, check for build later
<Chandu> Hobbsee, is it sync of source and then build binaries for ubuntu later
<Hobbsee> Chandu: correct
* minghua can't believe he can't find a simple doc talking about installing build-dependencies, rebuilding, and installing the locally-built packages
<Hobbsee> hmmm, not that many kde packages either
<minghua> LaserJock: as you are the doc guy here -- do you know such a thing exists?
<LaserJock> hang on a sec, let me read it
<Chandu> Fujitsu, can you tell me How do I work on motu-tools ... I have downloaded those scripts
<Chandu> Hobbsee, sync of source means what ...alll debian source will be moved to ubuntu archive
<Hobbsee> yes
<Chandu> Hobbsee, How do you build binaries for future release ..what is the build infrastructure
<Hobbsee> (unless the .orig.tar.gz is already the same version that you're importing)
<Hobbsee> Chandu: pbuilder
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<LaserJock> minghua: like a: apt-get source , apt-get build-dep, dpkg-buildpackage, dpkg -i, apt-get -f install ?
<minghua> s/dpkg -i, apt-get -f install/debi/, but yeah, basically that
<Chandu> Hobbsee, So ubuntu wont be taking the debian binaries ... all binaries in ubnutu are rebuilt again
<Hobbsee> Chandu: correct
<LaserJock> minghua: interesting, I only knew of gdebi
<LaserJock> minghua: the next version of the Ubunt packaging guide were I have time to actually work on it will have that at the beginning
<LaserJock> it's on my todo list
<Chandu> Hobbsee, Suppose dapper is released ..archive is present ..Now Iam working on edgy ... want to setup archive for edgy .. How do I sync merge and build pacakges for edgy and setup archive
<minghua> LaserJock: thanks!
<LaserJock> well, it'll be my attempt of ridding  the world of the unmentionable ;-)
<Hobbsee> huh?  pbuilder, i think
* ajmitch pokes Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee pokes ajmitch 
<Chandu> Hobbsee, can you tell me , How do I work with motu-tools ..How to use those scripts
* ajmitch wonders if anyone uses motu-tools 
<Hobbsee> i've got no idea what motu-tools is
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Nobody, AFAIK.
<minghua> jlmb: before LaserJock updates his fine guide, the best I can find for you is the "old notes" part in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<Chandu> Hobbsee, ok
* StevenK has used motu-tools, but hasn't for a very long time.
<minghua> jlmb: ignore the export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="debug nostrip noopt"
<minghua> jlmb: that's basically how you rebuild a package
<Hobbsee> where is this motu-tools?
* Hobbsee just uses MOM
<StevenK> motu-tools predates MoM.
<LaserJock> is it in Universe?
<Chandu> Hey , then in what way ubuntu is syncing and merging debian packages .for ubuntu ...
<ajmitch> even MoM isn't essential
<minghua> jlmb: but to rebuild a package from debian is a little trickier than that
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It borders on essential.
<Chandu> In wiki it has given that ..motu-tools can be used to do thsi
<ajmitch> you can do it all yourself
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: true, but it's quicker with MOM
<LaserJock> that's right
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I don't find so
<minghua> jlmb: starting from rebuilding a ubuntu package should be a good practice though
<LaserJock> I don't really care for MoM
<LaserJock> it's OK
<jsgotangco> wah?
<LaserJock> but I liked our Dapper system better
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<Chandu> ajmitch, So , everything is done manually
<jlmb> minghua: is there a way to set up a test environment so I don't mess with my main system?
<crimsun> (if we're doing our jobs properly, we end up manually inspecting debdiffs regardless, so it doesn't ultimately matter what is used)
<LaserJock> yeah
<minghua> jlmb: sure.  it's called a pbuilder.  and this time I have better doc for that :-)
<LaserJock> and I'd rather have a nicely updated list
<minghua> jlmb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Chandu> How do I test that this synced or merged debian package will work fine on my new release for Eg: edgy
<StevenK> LaserJock: Really? I find MoM easier to deal with.
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> it's not updated very much
<Chandu> Hey my main doubt is ..does this debian source which are synced or merged need to be rebuilt over my future release or current release .. .
<minghua> jlmb: but that's just for a test building environment, for testing the installing, you need a chroot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<StevenK> LaserJock: My problem with pre ubuntu-archive syncs, is that elmo was just told on IRC, and there no feedback.
<jlmb> minghua: ok cool. thanks
<minghua> jlmb: good luck :-)
<LaserJock> StevenK: ah well, yeah
<LaserJock> I'd personally like to combine ubuntu-archive with our Dapper tiber script for merges
<Chandu> StevenK, can you tell me how to work with MON
<Chandu> sorry MOM
<ajmitch> Chandu: you test by building, installing, and... testing
<ajmitch> which is why it's fun & a lot of manual work
<ajmitch> so don't modify too much in your derivative distro :)
<Chandu> ajmitch, building of packages als oto be done under the future release itself
<LaserJock> ajmitch: amen to that brother! :-)
<ajmitch> Chandu: of course
<minghua> amen indeed
<Chandu> ajmitch, How do I build on my future release ,as it wont be completed
<ajmitch> same way everyone works on a development release
<ajmitch> you have the files there until you release them
<ajmitch> you can't complete it until you work on it
<jlmb> minghua: quite a few emblems you got there
<LaserJock> good night people
<ajmitch> eg we work on feisty now until it is released
<ajmitch> night LaserJock
<minghua> jlmb: sorry, are you talking about the doc on the wiki?
<jlmb> minghua: nah...your launchpad profile. gnochm bug page got refreshed
<Chandu> ajmitch, no, for working on fiesty ..atleast fiesty base is need right ... for that debootstrap script is created first and that is used for chrrot jail .. is it
<ajmitch> Chandu: sure
<Chandu> ajmitch, so , For building packages for my future release .. first I need to create debootstrap script for that .and then work on that until I build all packages for that release
<ajmitch> if you feel like it
<ajmitch> or you could just upgrade from whatever you're basing things on
<Chandu> ajmitch, Which packages do the packaegs mentioned in debootstrap script installs in chroot
<minghua> jlmb: oh, those emblems :-)  yes, I've got quite a few, but I believe there are people who have more than I do :-)
<ajmitch> Chandu: take a look at debootstrap, it's all listed in the package
* ajmitch only has a couple of emblems
<Chandu> ajmitch, is it debootstrap package
<ajmitch> yes
<Chandu> ajmitch, ok
<minghua> jlmb: yeah, for example, look at ajmitch's, he has 17 emblems :-P
<Chandu> ajmitch, hey How you are building all 15000 packages of debian .. I heard that there are only aroung 55 motu's
<jlmb> minghua: lol, you have a long way to go then :P
<Hobbsee> Chandu: automation
<ajmitch> minghua: yeah, not all of the teams have emblems
<Chandu> Hobbsee, What is hat automation , How to do that ..What procedure you ahve followed ..Can you please tell me ..I have to do taht for my distro
<ajmitch> Chandu: you've been told about buildd stuff already
<Hobbsee> why are you making your own distro anyway?
<Chandu> ajmitch, oh.! buildd infrastructure is for auto building
<ajmitch> yes
<Chandu> Hobbsee, No , I from India .. We have been intimated by the Government to build a distro based on Debian .. Fo promote FOSS in our country and specifically for Govt domain ..
<Chandu> Hobbsee, I am working in Installable cd creation and package archive adminsitrator ..
<Chandu> Hobbsee, So , I am interested in going in Ubuntu's way ..So I want to know .. How do I sync debian packages
<Hobbsee> with a whole large lot of code
<ajmitch> & some magic
<ajmitch> 'syncing' is an ubuntu-specific thing, really
<ajmitch> since it's just importing source
<Chandu> Ok
<Chandu> Let me know just , How Ubuntu came up with its first release "Warty Warthog"
<Chandu> In
<ajmitch> we came, we built, we released
<Chandu> Warty How ubuntu used debian packages ... Whether there also same procedures were used
<Chandu> ajmitch, hey thats nice
<Chandu> ajmitch, I have built a single cd distro ... with some modifications in gnome packges and few others (like image replacement and name .etc)
<Chandu> ajmitch, I have that small repo .. But How do I maintian this whole large repository as Debian and Ubuntu ..
<ajmitch> with substantial effort
<ajmitch> we're stretched thin as it is
<Chandu> ajmitch, As I have added XbossY revision to my modified packages ... Some packages from debian repo are not installing over my distro , dependency problems are coming
<StevenK> Chandu: One thing to keep in mind is that the Ubuntu archive is looked after 5 to 6 people who are paid to work full time on this. Doing it all by yourself is not an option.
<StevenK> s/after/after by/
<Chandu> StevenK, ok
<jlmb> Whats with the support request on launchpad? Isn't that what webforums/mailing list/irc are for?
<minghua> I suppose in the future paid customers can use the "support request" in launchpad
<Chandu> ajmitch, For pbuilder environment for the development release ... the mirror should be the development mirror itself ..which will be containing only the source packages which are synced from debian and packages which are modified by ubuntu and merged into the development archive
<Chandu> ajmitch, Now I am setting up pbuilder environtment for my distro ..which debootstrap script should be used ...
<Chandu> ajmitch, I have the code name sethu similar to sarge ..etc
<Hobbsee> Chandu: why not just use a metapackage in universe, and roll your own iso's from that - then you get all the ubuntu fixes anyway?
<Chandu> In base packages I have edited "sysvinit , base-files " packages
<Chandu> Hobbsee, metapackage ..which is that
<Hobbsee> like ubuntu-desktop
<Hobbsee> but if you've modified stuff like sysvinit and the like, you wont be able to
<Chandu> Hobbsee, ok
<Chandu> Hobbsee, No, while building for feitsy ..what you are doing ... Which debootstrap script you are using and which mirror your using to create build environtment
<Hobbsee> special secret ones
<Chandu> Hobbsee, hey secret ..what is this
<Chandu> Hey in which channel can I get info regarding custom cd building ..about how ubuntu isntall and live cd is built with debian installer
<crimsun> read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6%2e06
<Chandu> crimsun, what about for install cd ... bcz Ubuntu is using debain isntaller ..but by default desktop is coming ..but in debian ..by default desktop wont come ..
<crimsun> what?
<crimsun> are you looking for instructions for Ubuntu's d-i or for the live cd?
<Chandu> crimsun, for d-i ..
<Chandu> crimsun, How to build a single cd distro with gnome or kde desktop by default using d-i
<crimsun> that's not Ubuntu-specific. Read the Debian wiki about that.
<crimsun> http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian
<Chandu> crimsun, No, I want to know How Ubuntu has modified debian installer to work for ubuntu ..with default desktop installation
<crimsun> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2005/07/msg00757.html
<Chandu> crimsun, ok
<Chandu> Hi
<Chandu> How to work with MOM
<Chandu> How do I get the list of files to be merged and llist of files to be synced
<Chandu> How to identify that
<Chandu> I found one script grab-merge.sh at http://merges.ubuntu.com/ .. How to work with that script -From where to run taht and what should be the incput argument
<Chandu> Hey can anyone help me in this
<Chandu> ajmitch, How to use MOM
<Chandu> ajmitch, How ubuntu will be identifying that this package can be synced and this to be merged
<Chandu> ajmitch, How do you get that list of packages and how that MON REPORT is generated
<Chandu> MOM REPORT
<Chandu> hey while building package for feisty using pbuilder ... which will be the chroot (whether it will be fiesty chroot itself) ..and from where the build-depend packges will be installed in chroot for building a package
<Chandu> is it from the current release archive
<crimsun> heh, we're about to get more pies in the face via /.
<crimsun> 'Upgrading to Ubuntu Edgy Eft a "Nightmare"'
<ajmitch> yeah, I saw it on digg
<ajmitch> most of it is probably 3rd party crack like compiz/beryl
* minghua saw it on digg too
<ajmitch> they already admitted that they broke upgrades
<crimsun> part of me says, "Well duh, it's Edgy. We had four months!"
<ajmitch> it's still disappointing
<crimsun> quite
<ajmitch> I fear that edgy may be a bit of a black mark if too many people have problems
<crimsun> hopefully the showstoppers will be addressed in a "6.10.1"
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> or too many people will have already broken their system by upgrading when prompted to
<ajmitch> 1 package out of many can cause the whole upgrade to stop
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: a lot of it boils down to this: there are not enough QA people
<ecki> moin
<ajmitch> always
<ajmitch> hello ecki
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I look at the bug count going up each week and sigh
<Burgundavia> I don't see any end to it, even a stablization in nubmers
<ajmitch> we might get it down for a few hours or few days
<Burgundavia> why so?
<ajmitch> but it still keeps rising overall
<ajmitch> just not enough people to cover this many packages
<crimsun> in light of the versions of packages, though, I think it's not as dire as it initially appears
<Burgundavia> here is what scares the crap of out me: beryl by default
<ajmitch> sure, a lot of old bugs get collected & never cleaned out
<ajmitch> evening lifeless
<imbrandon> i just hate it when a 3rd party package ( even a popular one ) breaks the upgrade but they blame us, i mean yes we have upgrade issues, but not near what those cause
<imbrandon> and thats hard to explain to someone
<ajmitch> yes, it is annoying
<minghua_> there are always going to be such vocal people
<ajmitch> it's the vocal people that we want supporting ubuntu & telling people it's great
<minghua_> unfortunately when ubuntu becomes popular, it attracts more such vocal (but more or less clueless) people
<minghua_> well, two different groups of vocal people, I would say
<imbrandon> yea , there will alweays be a loud minority but if there is no "good" to off set the bad , we need to work on things, even if technicly its not "our" fault
<imbrandon> as much as we can
<crimsun> it just means we need to make universe rock for Feisty.
<imbrandon> yup yup
<minghua_> I am actually not sure if I want those clueless vocal people to advocate ubuntu
<imbrandon> minghua sure, they are part of linux for "everyone"
<minghua_> like those who says "use ubuntu, who needs debian"
<minghua_> imbrandon: true.  but that's sabdfl's problem, not mine
<minghua_> ;-)
<ajmitch> minghua_: we still care, since we spend so much time on it
<minghua_> ajmitch: I can understand it hurts when people unjustifiably blame the distro you spend much time working on
<ajmitch> it doesn't hurt so much as annoy
<minghua_> but I personally probably don't care that much
<Plug> Spend the time getting angry at Slashdot using the Debian icon for Ubuntu stories :)
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> evening Plug :)
<Plug> hi
<Plug> (I said I'd go to bed to 9pm)
<Plug> (and then started watching TV)
<ajmitch> miserable evening down here :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I did the same
<ajmitch> ended up watching some crap dvds with flatmates
<Plug> work will suffer tomorrow
<crimsun> I wouldn't care any less if I didn't spend as much time as I do. If something's worth my time, then I'm going to care. If it's not worth my time, I still should care, because someone's benefitting.
<Plug> I ended up watching the Battlestar Galactica 1978 pilot :P
<ajmitch> I think that's one of the dvds they got out
<crimsun> even if it's not Ubuntu directly, there are millions of users who feel the impact of FLOSS in general, and that's important to me.
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> i think one of the major things that will help upgrade for edgy->feisty will be to pay more attention to 3rd party software, even as much as some of us dont want to , at the very leaste to let them know they are screwing up a large number of systems and the responibility of running a repo
<imbrandon> we're already streched thin so it will be hard
<Plug> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=203302&cid=16630360
<Plug> there we go, mod that up as a start.
<minghua_> crimsun: the problem is, the vocal group don't usually represent the opinion of the mass.  although I admit the vocal people are effective to change their opinion
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: see about luis looking at fc6?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: nope, haven't read p.g.o today
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: not seriously, just a one liner
<imbrandon> not to pick on anyone but stuff like .... the "beryl" repo ( http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/dists/edgy/beryl-svn/ ) has an openldap packages , wth does that have to do with beryl ? and people dont realize this
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I've seen worse
<ajmitch> the main one I come across with f-spot is dbus backported & broken
<imbrandon> ajmitch, definately , but that was just what i could come up with this second
<ajmitch> since it breaks f-spot badly
<imbrandon> people dont realize when you add 3rd party repos how much it can possibly break , not just now but in the future
<Plug> so how do you stop people using 3rd party stuff, when all you can do is upgrade stuff once every 6 months?
<ajmitch> and people wonder why we *hate* automatix :)
<imbrandon> and when it breaks they blam the distro
<ajmitch> Plug: we can't - people will always install broken stuff
<ajmitch> we can only try & make things more robust to handle their breakage
<crimsun> ouch, 'LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4 anycommand' fails horribly
<Plug> well, the options are "make the stuff less broken"
<Plug> or "kneecap people into accepting 6 month old stuff"
<ajmitch> crimsun: I think that may have even been intended
<imbrandon> Plug, we cant but i think we need to have some QA people look at the popular stuff more often and email them the broken stuff
<imbrandon> or something
<Plug> maybe there needs to be a "ubuntu-stupid" archive that people can upload things to
<ajmitch> Plug: ideas are welcome
<Plug> or a way to subscribe to revu as an apt channel
<Plug> I don't like downloading a deb, as I often have to download others
<Plug> but I dont like adding a repository as I'm not sure what I'll get from it
<imbrandon> as much broken stuff gets put onto revu that would suck
<ajmitch> we don't want to encourage that much broken stuff - revu doesn't even have automatic building for that reason
<Plug> best answer I've seen so far is backports.org for woody, which gave you a repository for each backport
<ajmitch> people upload incredibly crap packages to revu, it's part of learning
<Plug> so you could 'deb http://backports.org/foo-package/ woody'
<Plug> and only get the foo-package backport
<Plug> ajmitch: I've uploaded incredibly crap packages to revu :)
<ajmitch> yes, would you want people installing them?
<Plug> but ubuntu offers the freedom for people to add whatever 3rd party repos they like
<imbrandon> Plug, exactly and we need to tell people how to do things like that, so atleaste if they run a repo they dont break everyone, we cant stop them so might as well educate them
<Plug> ajmitch: well, if you took everything thats on a 3rd party repo
<bhale> using whatever 3rd party repos you like should void your warranty
<Plug> and put them in ubuntu-stupid
<Plug> then you could get them more QA attention?
<bhale> it does for me.
<imbrandon> bhale, sure it does, but you cant explain that to bloggers or /.
<Plug> Do you then extend the warranty-voiding to universe?
<ajmitch> Plug: QA attention is fine if they're willing & able to fix things
<Plug> everything there is 'best effort'
<bhale> imbrandon: I can be pretty persuasive if you break my package
<ajmitch> but we struggle enough to cover universe, let alone everything else people want
<Plug> (meaning no disrespect to MOTUs, etc)
<Plug> ajmitch: and universe is a frozen target
<minghua_> Plug: you can use sarge in your backports.org example :-)
<Plug> if $newfeature is introduced in compiz/beryl, I want it today
<ajmitch> Plug: I see people building firefox 2.0 backports for dapper
<ajmitch> yet that's a sure way to cause pain
<Plug> else I could be running gentoo ;)
<Plug> ajmitch: a sure way to cause pain inherently, or just cos they're bad backports?
<printk> the most popular 3rd party repos are XGL, compiz, beryl ones no?  Maybe get those in our main repos would cut down like 90% of 3rd party repos? :P
<printk> just an idear
<Plug> there exist really good '3rd party' packagers
<Plug> Christian Marrilat comes to mind
<ajmitch> Plug: too much stuff depends on gecko
<crimsun> Christian was also a DD.
<bhale> if you are a 3rd party and "really good"
<bhale> you should join MOTU
<Plug> yeah, it's contrived
<bhale> and play by the same rules as everyone else
<imbrandon> Plug, sure and like seveas, but that isnt the majority
<Plug> bhale: and make a visible contribution to users once every 6 months
<Plug> 3rd party repos update far more regularly.
<Plug> Which is the inherent problem, IMO.
<bhale> listen
<bhale> ubuntu development branch opens a few weeks later
<bhale> and is meant for testing the latest
<bhale> there is a large group of people (including yourself) who insist on having your cake and eating it too
<bhale> its harmful to ubuntu
<Seveas> bhale, not everything is suitable to be included in ubuntu
<bhale> you are "free" to do whatever you want, but I strongly disagree
<Plug> If your hypothetical user wants to run a stable everything, but one newer thing, would you really want them running an unstable version and complaining when everything else in it is broken?
<Seveas> the only thing in my repo that's suitable for inclusion is mirage, which I'll hand toimbrandon when feisty opens
<imbrandon> moins Seveas
<Seveas> hi
<imbrandon> btw did you get my email ?
<Seveas> yeah
<bhale> Seveas: the current argument was updating things from stable, not anyting entirely new
<imbrandon> kk
<Plug> Another common argument goes "it is the job of the OS vendor to provide a stable base for 3rd parties to upgrade on", which is what people are used to from the Windows world.
<Plug> People don't understand why everything that rus on Ubuntu, has to come from Ubuntu.
<bhale> it doesnt, but so far the majority of other people i have seen are underqualified
<bhale> and there is no metric to say "seveas rules, this other guy will break your crap"
<printk> it really just goes back to support
<Seveas> bhale, that's a bold statement but unfortunately you're more than right
<Plug> bhale: there is also no metric to say "X DD rules, but this other guy will break your crap" in Debian
<ajmitch> Plug: again, windows is more resilient
<Seveas> bhale, but remember that Ubuntu can't provide everything people want
<bhale> Plug: except that every DD has to have a base level of knowledge
<ajmitch> one broken package from a third party can break all upgrades on ubuntu
<rgl> good morning
<Plug> bhale: yep, agreed
<imbrandon> yea and if that package is popular it becomes a problem
<imbrandon> a real problem
<imbrandon> i can just imagine all the broken dapper systems when they try to install ff 2.0
<bhale> i watched people in every channel on gimpnet whining about broken mono from backports
<bhale> and very similar things years ago in gentoo
<minghua_> what do you guys think of the idea of making package manager refusing to dist-upgrade with third party source in sources.list (or at least shout loudly)?
<bhale> minghua_: not nice at all.
<printk> heh
<Seveas> minghua_, that's not even close to a solution
<imbrandon> shout loudly , wouldnt be bad imho
<imbrandon> for short term
<imbrandon> but not a good solution
<crimsun> a warning doesn't actually resolve anything, because the packages are still installed.
<Seveas> it doesn't magically solve problems caused by broken packages
<Fujitsu> I'm sure I've seen a couple of instances of Firefox 2.0 backports around :(
<Plug> Could you blacklist known bad packages at upgrade time?
<Fujitsu> Seveas: But it can warn people that it's going to get totally fscked up.
<Seveas> apt-get/gdebi/whatever should do that *when installing* third party packages
<imbrandon> Plug, or if we knew they were bad we could "fix" them or offer workarround, but often it dosent show its face till after release
<Seveas> not when you're upgrading
<Plug> None of that deals with "howto on the 'net told me to manually edit /etc/whatever and now a new package doesn't install" errors, either.
<bhale> that is a cultural problem
<Fujitsu> Seveas: There's a spec on that, or there was discussion on it, several months ago.
<bhale> not looking for  a technical solution
<minghua_> Seveas: it's just not practical for apt-get to do so
<Plug> Linux has a culture of bleeding edgers.  Is the cultural solution to ask them not to run Ubuntu?
<minghua_> and there are plenty of guides around teaching people to use dpkg directly
<bhale> bleeding edgers are free to do whatever they want on a YMMV basis IMO
<Seveas> bhale, but "pretty things" like beryl make everyone a bleeding edg person
<bhale> I don't want to spend another 6 months in upstream channels with
<bhale> <newbie> ubuntu on mono is broken here is my 30 line stack trace kthx
<bhale> <newbie> btw BACKPORTS RULES!!!1
<Seveas> bhale, you're npt going to solve that
<ajmitch> bhale: why not, I still deal with that regularly...
<Seveas> people will want to always have the latest
<Fujitsu> Grumpy!
<Seveas> sneezy!
<bhale> dopey
<imbrandon> Dopey?
<Seveas> bashful
<imbrandon> heh
<Seveas> hmm, Ubuntu "Dopey Dumbass", including all possible 3rd party repos
<imbrandon> LOL
* bhale takes his meds, hugs *
<Fujitsu> Seveas: Sounds great!
<Plug> 'night all
<imbrandon> gnight Plug
<Fujitsu> Bye, Plug.
<ajmitch> night Plug
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<bhale> yay Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, bhale
<Hobbsee> why yay?
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<ajmitch> because you're here
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Look what's on the front page of Slashdot!
<imbrandon> zomg, this quote says it all, "And it went horribly wrong. I have an ATI card with the ATI driver installed via easyubuntu. After the upgrade, X just died saying the ati driver failed to start. My wireless wasn't working, either, so I couldn't get on google via lynx to research it. I ended up reinstalling dapper from CD, then doing the edgy upgrade straight away, and it was fine."
<Fujitsu> `Users are producing detailed descriptions of problems but getting little help'
<Fujitsu> They're forum threads!
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: what do you expect?
<bhale> imbrandon++
<ajmitch> the forums are a den of iniquity, pits of vile foulness
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Haha!
<bhale> not that this proves my earlier point
<Fujitsu> Thankyou ajmitch!
<bhale> about installing random rack
<bhale> crack
<ajmitch> yeah, I'll shut up
<imbrandon> hehe ajmitch
* Fujitsu suggests that ajmitch's comment should go into the topic :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ouch
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeeeeah.
<imbrandon> i htink the topic should be trimed, its really unreadable
<Fujitsu> That REVU comment and EdgyReleaseSchedule can leave...
<Hobbsee> but anything the least bit interesting seems not to have been accounted for, like software RAID, custom kernels,  <-- uh.....
<bhale> hang on
<bhale> topic locked
<Hobbsee> last i knew, custom kernels werent supported anyway
<Hobbsee> bhale: no it's note
<bhale> no
<bhale> locked by me
<Fujitsu> CUSTOM KERNELS!?
<bhale> get it
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's in the summary on /.
<Fujitsu> bhale: OK, I was about to do it, but you've got the lock.
<Fujitsu> Those $#@*$@s.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:bhale] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Edgy frozen: All further uploads need to be for edgy-updates or when feisty opens
* bhale hugs Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Wouldn't it be nice if we could put some official comment on the article?
* ajmitch places his hand in the fire & reads more whining threads on the forums
<ajmitch> "Ubuntu sadly doesn't seem to care much about security, they've had a token mention of SELinux and other proactive security on the roadmap ever since Hoary and it has gotten pushed back every single cycle with the promise that next cycle they'd start caring about security."
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: You don't have to do it! Save yourself.
<ajmitch> yeah, go me!
<bhale> yeah how about SSP on every package
* ajmitch is responsible for selinux going nowhere in ubuntu
<bhale> (we didnt advertise that very well)
<Fujitsu> Because UNIX is soooo insecure without SELinux.
<bhale> Fujitsu: DAC is dead!
<Fujitsu> Does anybody else use SSP on most stuff?
<bhale> Fujitsu: MAC saves the world
<bhale> Fujitsu: er, yes its in the default compiler settings
<ajmitch> there's also a great thread on why f-spot sucks
<ajmitch> man, reading the forums is so uplifting tonight
<Hobbsee> it seems that the people's comments on /. are saying it mostly works.  interesting
<bhale> ajmitch: does it involve browsing the folder?
<ajmitch> bhale: of course
<bhale> ajmitch: with arrow keys?
<ajmitch> it's about how gthumb is so much better
<Fujitsu> bhale: Few distros use GCC 4.1, right?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: how about you go to all the threads, and adding "dont add random shit to your systems that we dont support, and expect the upgrade to go smoothly"
<bhale> Fujitsu: im not sure thats a true statement
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I'd be too bitter
<bhale> Hobbsee: you should have been here 10 minutes ago.
<Hobbsee> bhale: oh?  why?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeah, you missed the suggestion of `Dopey Dumbass' by Seveas:
<bhale> Fujitsu: fc6 has gcc 4.1
<Hobbsee> paste/
<Hobbsee> ?
<Fujitsu> <Seveas> hmm, Ubuntu "Dopey Dumbass", including all possible 3rd party repos
<bhale> Fujitsu: and have been using ssp and PIE selectively for awhile now
<Hobbsee> hah
<Fujitsu> After a big ranting session by all about 3rd party repos making things explode.
<Hobbsee> well, yes
<Fujitsu> bhale: Aha.
<bhale> their use of pie is on about a half dozen daemons, though
<bhale> they turn on NX on i386 which is a good one
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: fedora is probably the main distro pushing a lot of this security stuff into the mainstream
<ajmitch> while there are various things like hardened gentoo, it's hardly mainstream
<bhale> alot of things were pioneered by hardened gentoo
<bhale> not that I care anymore
<Fujitsu> ` However, when I tried to get Beryl working, X got broken and I had to reconfigure it manually. I blame it on Nvidia for not opening up the source though. Kudos to everyone involved in Ubuntu, you did a great job!'
<Fujitsu> That guy didn't blame us! It's incredible.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: got those beryl packages working yet? :)
<bhale> its nice that Mark is going to legitimize the hostile fork by funding development
<Fujitsu> bhale: ... are you serious?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, no :(
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: iv'e seen those beryl packages.  they're still on crack.
<Hobbsee> :P
<bhale> Fujitsu: he is sponsoring them for mountain view over certain other people
<bhale> Fujitsu: and pushing hard for inclusion "by default"
* Fujitsu 's jaw drops.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: surely you knew that
<Fujitsu> bhale: I knew about the latter, but not the former.
<bhale> we are also sponsoring forum moderators
<bhale> but whatever floats your boat
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: beryl-by-default spec
<Hobbsee> bhale: that does kinda make sense - we can use them
<Hobbsee> bhale: they make good testers
<Hobbsee> bhale: by sheer number
<bhale> heh.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I said I knew about the by-default spec, but not the sponsorship.
<imbrandon> yea forums that have fskin google ad's
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Have you reported it to Canonical?
<Hobbsee> bhale: i mean, you throw them at the hardware testing page, and the wifi card page, and they could do some good stuff there.
<ajmitch> sorry, misread
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea alot of the beryl people will be in MTV
<Hobbsee> bhale: which is a job the devs wouldnt do anyway -as there arent enough
<ajmitch> beryl-by-default is high priority on launchpad, too
<Fujitsu> Why are we sponsoring the two things we need less of (Beryl/forums)?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I thought it was Essential...
<Fujitsu> Oops, that's accelerated-x
* bhale feels the love
<Fujitsu> But pretty much the same.
* ajmitch hugs bhale & everyone else
<ajmitch> we're so loving here
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yes, we LOVE hating the forums!
<bhale> Fujitsu: mark funds what he is interested in, which effectively stacks the deck in terms of specs
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: now..
<bhale> Fujitsu: and drives release management
<imbrandon> bhale, and thats not totaly wrong ( bad in some cases ) but we all knew the score when getting into this
<Fujitsu> I don't see how beryl-by-default is practical, as it's got to mature from being incredibly unstable to main- and shipping-quality in less than 6 months...
<imbrandon> s/wrong/bad
<Hobbsee> well, i cant see mark actually including such crackful shit that changes constantly - once he sees the code
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: True...
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I'm hoping mdz will make him see straight... That's what CTOs are for, is it not?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: details like that don't matter
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: CTO's?
<bhale> cheif technical officer
<imbrandon> not only that most hardware today dosent run well with cpmiz/beryl
<Fujitsu> Chief Technical Officer, the position mdz holds at Canonical.
<Hobbsee> ah
<imbrandon> not good enough atleaste
<Hobbsee> anything with a single core seems to have great trouble, yes
<bhale> SLED does compiz nicely.
<ajmitch> I was wanting to test it out on my laptop, with its fairly basic i915
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: purserj was complaining in #ubuntu-au that he often has to kill Xorg, and he's running dual-core.
<imbrandon> processor power mean squat with compiz/beryl, its about the video cards
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah well.  i was giving them the benifit of the doubt
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Don't bother!
<DBO> imbrandon, well it does with the nvidia betas right now but thats a bug in the drivers
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, there must be something vaguely right with it, for it to run at all
<imbrandon> DBO, even on my intel cards and my ati cards, it "works" but not good enough for day to day use by the masses
<ajmitch> DBO: well we'd better hope that nvidia deigns to fix their bugs, which only they can do
<DBO> imbrandon, the core is getting a once over, and the resize plugin (our primary bug farm) is in the middle of a rewrite
<imbrandon> by all means i think it should be in universe , maybe even main but not default /yet/
<DBO> ajmitch, its the beta drivers with the issue, I assume they do =P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I think it runs on pure evil, it doesn't need anything right if it's evil enough :S
<Hobbsee> of course, even if it does get in, it'll freeze with a couple of months to release, which means that it'll be very out of date
<StevenK> It can get a UVFe.
<Hobbsee> and cant be updated with a UVF, as it's on crack.  the point of feature freeze is to stop that.
<DBO> imbrandon, I dont speak for ubuntu and have no delusion of being able to have any weight on that decision
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's a Mark-requested feature. Anything can happen.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: But the other side of the coin is, "It's so broken, it needs to be fixed."
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: yes, we've seen that with artwork, or the nautilus change a couple of releases ago
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i cant see him throwing an entire releases stability out the window, just for that
<bhale> you could end up with 2 full time canonical employees hacking it into the ground
<StevenK> Holy crap, Mark requested beryl-by-default?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yes!
<Fujitsu> StevenK: YES!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's true.  then it's still broken
<imbrandon> yes
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's why it's such a big thing.
* Hobbsee thinks mark needs to put down the crack pipe for a while
<StevenK> Geez, sorry I missed it.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Putting it in in the first place is pretty bad.
<ajmitch> DBO: isn't this channel fun? :)
<Hobbsee> indeed
<DBO> ajmitch, people need to calm down a bit I think =P
<ajmitch> hm, crap
<ajmitch> why are my camera batteries flat?
<ajmitch> they were fairly new...
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It's all because of Beryl.
<DBO> -_-...
<imbrandon> everyone seems to be fairly calm , just in disagreement with the spec
<imbrandon> trust me i've seen them much more riled up
<Fujitsu> Beryl decided your laptop didn't have enough power, so ate it from your camera batteries.
<ajmitch> DBO: you haven't seen us rant then :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Duh. This isn't Debian.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: which should mean a very interesting time at UDS then, for that BOF
* Hobbsee does hope they do that one via TS.
<Hobbsee> or broadcast all the yelling
<imbrandon> LOL
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yes, I really want to be there for that.
<imbrandon> i think that should be the first BOF to set the tone for the rest of the conf
<DBO> I will be there for that
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i think tha'td be FUN
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I'm definitely going to be listening, whatever time.
<imbrandon> tbh i think most at UDS will be there
<ajmitch> DBO: do you honestly think it'd be ready to be the default WM?
<DBO> ajmitch, as it stands now?
<DBO> no
* Hobbsee wonders if it would also take over kwin
<imbrandon> DBO, ok in 3 months time
<ajmitch> by feature freeze at latest
<DBO> in 4 months?  yeah i think we can have it ready
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes
* StevenK notes AIGLX+compiz is fun.
<Hobbsee> awww... crap.  not even kubuntu is safe!
<StevenK> Heh
<imbrandon> DBO, even for non 3d cards and the like that it will have to support to be default ?
* Hobbsee wonders if the kubuntu council can make an executive decision not to include the crack into kubuntu.
<DBO> Hobbsee, it has a built in method to fall back to KWin/Metacity for purists
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes
<ajmitch> hah
<DBO> imbrandon, thats why it falls back =)
<ajmitch> "purists"
<ajmitch> I love how people get labelled like that :)
* DBO regrets saying that already
<imbrandon> purists?
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> where purists is people who like their system working all the time, nto just randomly dying
<Fujitsu> s/purists/non-crack-smokers/g
<DBO> ajmitch, no effense, was just the first word to mind
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Are you going to start protesting now? :-P
* StevenK prepares Fujitsu a few placards.
<DBO> Hobbsee, have you ever run beryl?
<imbrandon> i dont consider myself a purist becouse i use flash and the like , and i even like beryl, DBO dont get me wrong i'm probably one of the few that LIKE it and think its GREAT but its /not/ ready for default
<StevenK> Gasp!
<Hobbsee> DBO: i dont have a good enough video card for it, and this machine is prone to overheat, and i'd really prefer not to set it on fire, thanks!
<crimsun> I've got the eye candy I want with xfwm4's compositor.
<StevenK> imbrandon is actually arguing for the non-crack default!
<DBO> Hobbsee, well perhaps you should find a way to try it before you bash it... it doesnt chew up CPU and GPU when you're not using effects
* StevenK may need to reset his jaw.
<DBO> and even then its very light
<imbrandon> StevenK, haha
<Fujitsu> DBO: I have heard otherwise.
<DBO> imbrandon, if we had to decide today
<Hobbsee> StevenK: how about you install it on your laptop :P
<DBO> I would agree with you... however we do not
<StevenK> I already have compiz on my laptop.
<crimsun> DBO: we don't appear to be bashing Beryl
<DBO> Fujitsu, Xgl is the cause of most CPU hogging
<imbrandon> DBO, we dont have to decide today, we decide next week :)
<ajmitch> DBO: hence why I want useful packages (that work)
<Fujitsu> Even on insanely powerful dual-core systems, Xorg killing is regularly necessary, apparently.
<Fujitsu> DBO: Works fine without Beryl, I hear.
<Hobbsee> DBO: i've *also* heard otherwise - from multiple people
<bhale> imbrandon: beat me to it
<AlinuxOS> I would like to set up ubuntu-ka (Georgian) LoCo team, who can help me ?(there is allredy #ubuntu-ge). Thank you.
<DBO> Fujitsu, thats caused by people either using svn (silly people) or using old version when animation was still leaking textures
<Fujitsu> And just think what will happen if we put it in, then take it out at the last minute...
<imbrandon> AlinuxOS, #ubuntu-locoteams
<AlinuxOS> imbrandon, thank you
<imbrandon> np
<DBO> Fujitsu, and when beryl was leaking textures to Xgl, they never got freed, even after restarting beryl, this is why people were restarting X
<DBO> this however is an Xgl specific issue
<StevenK> Is there crack-laden packages I can try on my Edgy laptop?
<ajmitch> StevenK: imbrandon was fixing some up
<Hobbsee> StevenK: imbrandon has some
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Beryl, Xgl, Flash 9...
<ajmitch> I'm just trying to fix them up myself
<crimsun> emphasis on cr...
* bhale wonders if AIGLX works on my i945
<imbrandon> StevenK, there is packages from them but my packages arent fixed yet
<DBO> StevenK, I have some relatively stable svn builds (dont use latest as the resize rewrite is only half done right now)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: working on it
<ajmitch> bhale: it should
<imbrandon> ajmitch, rockin
<StevenK> Fujitsu: AIGLX, not Xgl.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Throw in some beta NVIDIA drivers, even if you don't have an NVIDIA card.
<Fujitsu> bhale: Yes, it will.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And Flash 9 can bite me.
<crimsun> bhale: pretty well, actually.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Xgl is less stable than AIGLX, so go for Xgl!
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Why? If they aren't loaded, they won't get used, so no fun.
<ajmitch> crimsun: it'll be interesting to see how bad performance is on i915
<imbrandon> lol
<Fujitsu> StevenK: So force-load them!
<crimsun> ajmitch: really, really...sluggish.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: It's not too bad with Compiz, unsure with Beryl.
<ajmitch> crimsun: great to hear
<StevenK> I think the compiz in Edgy leaks. It slows down over time.
<crimsun> that's a Feature.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: indeed.  and on my video card.  i'd hate to see how it would perform
* bhale tries compiz (not beryl) on laptop
<DBO> Hobbsee, what video card?
<Fujitsu> bhale: You're boring!
<StevenK> For the record, I disagree with Mark. beryl-by-default is a bad idea. Beryl easily switched on and off, good thing.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: i845 or so?
<bhale> Fujitsu: I've met David Reeseman twice
<StevenK> DBO: Video is not the only concern for Hobbsee. Her laptop has heat issues.
<ajmitch> StevenK: Amaranth was working on a nice little switcher for that
<bhale> Fujitsu: I can vouch for his relative sanity
<bhale> Reeveman
<Hobbsee> DBO: Fujitsu 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device (rev 01)
<imbrandon> DBO, thats the thing, untill it can work on relitively /all/ video cards its useless as default
<Fujitsu> bhale: Forgive my ignorance, who's that?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's a point, too
<imbrandon> i855 Hobbsee
<bhale> Fujitsu: xgl/compiz author
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Gah, sooo close >_>
<crimsun> Hobbsee's laptop is possessed.
<DBO> Hobbsee, it works fine on that card
<Fujitsu> bhale: Aha.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: indeed.  now you're remembering the sound
* StevenK notes compiz is too slow to be usable for real work on his laptop.
<crimsun> Her audio codec and dsp do crazy...
<DBO> Hobbsee, just dont enable blur or burn or beamup (they are not on by default)
<Fujitsu> Yay for AC'97 ICH4s!
<apokryphos> Reveman =)
<imbrandon> same here StevenK on my 3400+ amd64 :)
<imbrandon> its great , and "works" but not useable for day to day
<StevenK> imbrandon: Geez, I was planning on trying it on my amd64.
<DBO> Hobbsee, you can also disable wobbly as the stencil buffer is slow too
<ajmitch> StevenK: I'll have to try it on my amd64 with its fast nvidia card :)
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> DBO: i plan to look on StevenK's faster computer
<imbrandon> DBO, well with everything diabled whats the point ?
<ajmitch> the blazing fast geforce 6600
<DBO> imbrandon, thats 3 features...
<Hobbsee> DBO: i'm not willing to run beryl, get it up to 87C or so, and then have it grind like its' about to die on me.
<tarzeau> how many MOTU people exist?
<DBO> imbrandon, blur is barely noticable... and burn and beamup are pretty over the top anyhow
<Fujitsu> tarzeau: 55, I believe.
<imbrandon> tarzeau, about 60 ( counting core-dev too )
<ajmitch> tarzeau: not enough - maybe 10-15 who are actually active
<DBO> imbrandon, they are off by default for a reason
<tarzeau> is there a list online?
<apokryphos> tarzeau: check launchpad
<Fujitsu> tarzeau: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<DBO> imbrandon, anyhow its literally impossible to use every animation at once... there are more animations than there are events
<imbrandon> DBO, i know
<ajmitch> DBO: "over the top" is certainly true
* StevenK is still wondering if he can do the flicking of windows bling like Keith Packard was doing on his laptop.
<Hobbsee> DBO: so if i have to turn off wobbly, blur, beamup, and anything else like that, how much can i run?
<DBO> Hobbsee, pretty much everything
<StevenK> Making windows transulent would be cool, but I can't see how to do that.
<tarzeau> can i join MOTU?
<DBO> alt + scrollwheel StevenK
<Hobbsee> DBO: oh right
<StevenK> DBO: My laptop is sans scrollwheel.
<DBO> Hobbsee, thats about 5% of beryl I said not to use...
<bhale> compiz.real: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing
<DBO> StevenK, did you get the updated libwnck package then?
<bhale> so much for that
<DBO> StevenK, or you can change the mapping in beryl-settings
<ajmitch> tarzeau: sure, there'll be plenty to do in a week or two
<apokryphos> StevenK: you can change the shortcut in the settings
<StevenK> DBO: I'm using compiz at the moment.
* StevenK fires up gconf
<crimsun> tarzeau: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<Hobbsee> DBO: right
<tarzeau> ajmitch: like what? i'm only interested getting more free software that i use distributed easily (as in packages, with popular distributions)
<DBO> StevenK, you have to do it gconf then
<DBO> bhale, you didnt set up your drivers properly it looks like
<DBO> bhale, what video card do you have?
<ajmitch> tarzeau: then if you want to do packaging, you can do that - don't you already have some stuff in debian?
<bhale> DBO: i945
<DBO> bhale, is AIGLX enabled?  (check your xorg logs)
<tarzeau> ajmitch: yes i do. but how would i proceed when i have a new software package? ask here for someone to upload it?
<DBO> tfp errors stem from AIGLX errors
<bhale> DBO: yes.
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: you can upload it to debian, then get it synced across here, if you prefer
<ajmitch> tarzeau: if you had a package that's new & not in debian, it gets reviewed first (see REVU on the wiki)
<tarzeau> Hobbsee: how can i do that? i have some stuff in debian that i'd like synced to ubuntu
<ajmitch> having packages maintained in debian is preferable
<DBO> bhale, glxinfo | grep texture_from_pixmap
<DBO> bhale, any output?
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: it's in unstable?
<ajmitch> tarzeau: it'll get synced automatically if not changed in ubuntu
<tarzeau> ajmitch: i see, ok but how can i make sure the same thing is synced to ubuntu?
<ajmitch> when feisty is open
<tarzeau> Hobbsee: yes
<Hobbsee> tarzeau: see ajmitch's answer
<tarzeau> ajmitch: i see, ok then i don't think i'll get a MOTU
<tarzeau> ajmitch: or use REVU
<bhale> DBO: yes
<DBO> bhale, how many lines?
<bhale> libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x5b GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,  GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap
<ajmitch> tarzeau: you are a DD, right?
<DBO> oh wait you are using compiz
<tarzeau> ajmitch: no, i'm not
<ajmitch> ah, I thought you were, sorry
<DBO> thats still using the wrapper script... good luck =P
<StevenK> bhale: Are you throwing any options to compiz?
<DBO> he should be using compiz --strict-binding --indirect-rendering --replace &
<DBO> (compiz should figure those out on its own but it doesnt, beryl however does)
<StevenK> Exactly what I was going to suggest.
<bhale> i clearly need a howto
<Yagisan_> wow, I missed a lot of "fun"
<StevenK> There's one on the wiki.
<bhale> on runing this one command
<DBO> bhale, thats compiz
<DBO> like I said, i have no idea why they havent had compiz autodetect its environment yet
<DBO> there is a gnome-compiz-manager that will take care of that for you if you like however
<ajmitch> maybe you haven't submitted patches for them to do so
<DBO> ajmitch, no those were submitted and rejected
<DBO> or was it to the manager for detection
<bhale> i got it running now
<DBO> at any rate it was discussed...
* Hobbsee wonders why they were rejected
<bhale> but its completely unusable
<bhale> better turn off some crack
<DBO> bhale, which "compiz" are you using?
<DBO> the one in edgy repos?
<Fujitsu> I'm sure there were very good reasons for them being rejected, if indeed they were submitted
<bhale> yes
<DBO> Fujitsu, yeah, they wanted to do that elsewhere ;-)
<apokryphos> DBO: there's already a patch in gnome's control center, on SLED, which does all that (detecting environment, if it's possible, and if so having option to enable)
<DBO> apokryphos, I know, which is why the patches were rejected
<crimsun> Yagisan_: I'm reading backlogged e-mail and noticed a three month-old (!) one from you. Apologies, is the issue still relevant, or is moot?
<DBO> bhale, thats not compiz-fdo as I recall
<apokryphos> DBO: why? I tried it on a few systems (Intel, NVidia) and have only success to report with it
<Yagisan_> crimsun, pm me the topic to remind me please - I'm not on my usual box
<DBO> isnt that an old compiz quinnstorm?
<DBO> apokryphos, i didnt say it didnt work =P
* StevenK notes compiz crashes when he sets a binding for opaqueness.
<DBO> StevenK, fresh install?
<StevenK> Well, an upgrade from Dapper.
<DBO> StevenK, I meant of compiz
<StevenK> Oh, right. Yes.
<DBO> eh... donno
<DBO> usually that reflects a bug in your active plugins list
<DBO> unset that key and try again
<StevenK> DBO: To be honest, I'm tempted to wait until imbrandon (*cough*) gets the Beryl packages working.
<DBO> StevenK, you want debs?
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<Fujitsu> Which unofficial set is this?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu?
<DBO> i have rev 796 through 860 right now =P
<StevenK> "I have this crack for you. The first hit is free." :-P
<Fujitsu> Yet another set of unofficial Beryl packages.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you may as well "attempt" to get it working
<StevenK> DBO: Point me at the them.
<DBO> Fujitsu, I have never given my packages out before
<ajmitch> DBO: are they sane?
<DBO> ajmitch, yes
<Fujitsu> DBO: Oh good!
<imbrandon> DBO, are they same packages?
<ajmitch> DBO: are they based on the packaging in svn?
<DBO> ajmitch, yes
<StevenK> Given the amount of knowledge DBO seems to have on this, I'm willing to trust him.
* DBO waits for it
<ajmitch> then they're crack
<DBO> there it is
<ajmitch> I've already told shawn what to fix
* Fujitsu applauds ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> show the source, and teh corresponding binaries - that's the easiest way to tell if they're crack or not
<DBO> ajmitch, i know but they work for testing purposes
<ajmitch> (as a start)
<StevenK> Either that, or DBO has SONET into a Google datacentre.
<ajmitch> how I detest "works for me"
<StevenK> Mmmmmm, SONET.
<DBO> ajmitch, argh you are being unfair now
<DBO> ajmitch, and you know it, I would NEVER distribute these to end users, but StevenK wants to review beryl for UDS
<StevenK> I so don't.
<DBO> and I feel its only fair to get him a stable/recent version...
<DBO> StevenK, I thought thats what you wanted all this for?
<ajmitch> DBO: StevenK isn't going to UDS, as far as I'm aware
<StevenK> I'm not.
<StevenK> I'm just testing all of this because I'm curious.
<DBO> oh well, nerts to you, try 0.1.1 then =P
<StevenK> Bwaha
* StevenK watches the crack-pipe get taken back then. :-P
<apokryphos> beryl aside, isn't having some of the drivers enabled by default going to cause controversy with the kernel hackers again?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Mark won't appreciate you for taking it in the first place.
<DBO> apokryphos, yeah
* Yagisan_ types Beryl into google and gets sent to look at some minerals
<Fujitsu> apokryphos: Yes, there is a spec on that... It doesn't address such issues.
<DBO> Yagisan_, beryl is a precious gem
<DBO> Yagisan_, Green Beryl is also know as emerald
<DBO> (which happens to be the name of our themer)
<DBO> s/themer/window decorator/
<Yagisan_> DBO, so it's an impure diamond ?
<StevenK> Emerald, or Green Beryl?
<DBO> Emerald
<crimsun> apokryphos: which drivers?
<DBO> Yagisan_, well Impure Diamond just didnt roll off the tongue =P
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Proprietary 3D drivers.
<apokryphos> crimsun: i.e. nvidia
<Fujitsu> Yes, NVIDIA/ATI.
<crimsun> ah.
<crimsun> good, nothing alsa-related, or I'd faint.
<Yagisan_> um - this isn't good for my ltsp clients is it
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> Yagisan_: but your ltsp clients need the bling!
<apokryphos> hehe
<Fujitsu> The accelerated-x spec seems to have default installation of proprietary drivers in its scope.
<Yagisan_> ajmitch, that they do - but there is a limit to the amount of bling the vesa driver supports
<imbrandon> brb /me is afk ~30 minutes
* Yagisan_ -> daddy duties
<ajmitch> heh ok
<DBO> imbrandon, would you mind a PM?
<imbrandon> DBO, sure, i might be slow answering
<imbrandon> i was about to p[op in the shower
<apokryphos> who exactly will be working on beryl for feisty, then?
<imbrandon> apokryphos, its not clear yet
<Hobbsee> apokryphos: quinn, DBO, and their team, presumably
<Hobbsee> and maybe imbrandon
<apokryphos> the only way I imagine the process being successful really is if someone started a process of stabilisation from today 8)
<DBO> apokryphos, its already started
<DBO> Amaranth is submitting code now too btw
<Fujitsu> Seveas: Nice blog post.
<Fujitsu> DBO: That really doesn't increase its credibility with me.
<DBO> Fujitsu, have you ever used it?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: perhaps they could include that into the upgrader - checking for crack, then purging it, adding any extra bits needed so it works and *then* starting the upgrade
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That'd be nice, and I suggested it during the discussion minutes before you arrived :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: (in relation to Seveas' blog post)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh
<Fujitsu> DBO: No, but I have heard many people say it is revoltingly unstable.
<Hobbsee> DBO: it's a little hard to test without the latest packages
<apokryphos> not revoltingly, but beryl certainly is. A stable compiz is very much possible though and exists
<Hobbsee> but various of us have seen the packaging, and if that's the quality of the packaging, then i hate to see what of the rest is wrong
<Hobbsee> apokryphos: compiz isnt installed by default at the moment, is it?
<Hobbsee> maybe they're thinkingof that as default
<DBO> Hobbsee, the packaging was done by new packagers... programmers who had never debianized a package before
<apokryphos> Hobbsee: it isn't, nope; in universe.
<Hobbsee> DBO: right, fair enough
* Hobbsee wonders where these packages are
<DBO> http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu
<DBO> walkthrough there
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  if i had my other partition working...
<giskard> i guess we should put it in univers asap :)
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  that then goes and violates all my premade shortcut keys.  that's a pain
<DBO> Hobbsee, hmmm?
<Hobbsee> DBO: to turn some of the plugins
<DBO> Hobbsee, turning off blur should be no big deal
<DBO> leave wobbly on if you like
<DBO> its not that bad, especially without blur
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, packages are all hacked up & working
<Hobbsee> yay :)
<Hobbsee> gimme the crack!
<ajmitch>  http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/beryl-manager.png
<Hobbsee> if i can even get X to work on this partition
<ajmitch> so many options..
<giskard> ajmitch: ehehe
<StevenK> I note Beryl's Window Decorator seems to blink.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: unsuitable for gnome then :P
<StevenK> The decoration appears, disappears, appears, ....
<apokryphos> that happened once to me, a beryl restart fixed it
<Fujitsu> Some fantastic comments on that /. story:
<Fujitsu> `It would have been more respectable if the Ubuntu team had worked on optimizing bash instead of going for a crippled, but faster, shell.'
<StevenK> HAH!
<StevenK> Dash implements all of POSIX.
<Fujitsu> `As a way to get some scripts to execute faster they changed from using bash as the default shell, to dash. dash breaks compatibility all over the place, none of the extensions found in practically every other bourne shell derivative are there. I first found out about this when someone using one of my scripts reported that 'read -s' (for reading passwords without echoing them) and 'trap function SIGINT' both give errors.'
<StevenK> It isn't our fault every bloody shell script uses bashisms.
<Fujitsu> Yes, exactly.
<StevenK> Switching from bash to zsh would have given some of the same headaches.
* Fujitsu gets out some LARTing devices.
<StevenK> (For example)
<ajmitch> StevenK: users don't care
<Fujitsu> Ah good, somebody sane replied:
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I think beryl-manager needs about triple the options to be suitable for KDE then
<StevenK> ajmitch: Point.
* StevenK notes Beryl mostly works. 
<Fujitsu> Great. There's even a comment complaining about the `too new' kernel we use.
<StevenK> Except for you know, having window decorations.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: aaaajj
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sorry, just me losing my ssh connection, it seems
<ajmitch> right..
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> so these beryl effects scare me
<ajmitch> but they don't run *too* slowly on i915
<Hobbsee> right, so i have crackk....what the!
<Hobbsee> my pabackspace key doesnt wrkowrk!
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> what crack are you using?
<Hobbsee> er, well, i got gnome to boot again
<Hobbsee> right, now, where do i get teh crack?
<ajmitch> you don't
<StevenK> Heh.
<ajmitch> :)
<Fujitsu> crack.com
<ajmitch> unless you want me to put stuff up
* StevenK notes he has gotten Beryl to work.
<Hobbsee> i want to try out this beryl :P
<Fujitsu> StevenK: For certain values of work?
<DBO> http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu  <--- Hobbsee
<ajmitch> poor Hobbsee
<StevenK> Fujitsu: No, it looks good, actually.
<Hobbsee> thanks, i'd lost that
<StevenK> I have to kill Beryl Manager, otherwise the window decorations blink.
<DBO> StevenK, yeah thats known and fixed in svn
<StevenK> DBO: That would have been nice to know first. :-)
<DBO> StevenK, you can killall emerald to stop it too
<StevenK> Ah.
<Fujitsu> ... kill the decoration manager to get decorations?
<DBO> Fujitsu, two start at the same time and a looping war starts
<DBO> hence the blinking
<Fujitsu> How silly.
<DBO> race conditions are fun
<ajmitch> nice crack
<Fujitsu> What lovely reliable racing crack.
<DBO> Fujitsu, you know I get the idea you've never had a bug in any software you've written huh?
<Fujitsu> I've never had my software be suggested to be installed by default when it is incredibly buggy, no.
<ajmitch> yeah, blur on i915 isn't so speedy
<DBO> ajmitch, yeah AIGLX doesnt handle the pixels shaders so well
<ajmitch> nor is an i915 a particularly fast chipset
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Sure it is. Top of the range.
<DBO> ajmitch, surprisingly if you ran Xgl (you can) it would work fine...
<ajmitch> fullscrene gnome-terminal, everything blurred in the background
<DBO> however you dont want to do that as Xgl is a solution far worse than the problem
<ajmitch> typing is a little lagged
* StevenK notes Beryl is more usable on his laptop than compiz is.
<ajmitch> once I turn off some crack effects, it seems to be running ok
* Fujitsu runs off to bed.
* ajmitch really should have been in bed about 3 hours ago
* StevenK wonders if should turn on the rain effect.
<ajmitch> nah
<Fujitsu> Have fun in crack-land, StevenK.
<DBO> StevenK, what video card?
<apokryphos> rain effect on beryl here is surprisingly slow; though perfectly smooth on compiz
<DBO> ajmitch, wasnt blur off by default?
<StevenK> DBO: i810 something.
<DBO> StevenK, yeah dont turn it on
<Hobbsee> aah, shiny!
<ajmitch> DBO: sure it was, but I turned off some animation as well
<ajmitch> the menu effects especially were over the top
<DBO> ajmitch, ok =)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Heh.
<DBO> ajmitch, yeah defaults need a once over
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Flip workspaces.
<DBO> but people tend to customize to their liking anyhow
<ajmitch> I can handle subtle effects like fade, but dream is just not nice
* DBO likes dream
<Hobbsee> ooh, way cool!
* Hobbsee notes that she's getting ever so slightly dizzy over this
<StevenK> Hah
<ajmitch> you get dizzy over many things :P
<Hobbsee> argh!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hush
<apokryphos> where is this dream?
* Fujitsu runs out of the room, away from the crack-smoke.
<DBO> apokryphos, we smoked crack and closed out eyes
<DBO> s/out/our/
<DBO> there I made a crack joke =)
<ajmitch> I also turned off wobbly windows :)
<StevenK> Oh look, the plumber is back.
* StevenK chuckles.
<apokryphos> ajmitch: have you disabled everything? ;-)
<ajmitch> apokryphos: not quite
<DBO> ajmitch, if you wanna see something fun for nvidia users with fast cards (yours will be laggy as heck while you try this)
<DBO> ajmitch, turn on blur effects and then turn on the motion blur, then rotate your cube
<ajmitch> DBO: 6600 fast enough, or does it need to be 7xxx?
<DBO> ajmitch, you on a 6600?
<DBO> thats plenty fast
<Hobbsee> how does one rotate the cube?  just switch desktops?
<ajmitch> my desktop is, yes
<apokryphos> ajmitch: nothing should be lagging on that, really.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes.
<ajmitch> however I haven't installed beta drivers
<DBO> beta drivers = win
<ajmitch> apokryphos: I'm testing on my laptop now
<DBO> much faster
<Hobbsee> ah
<DBO> minus the whole black window issue
<DBO> Hobbsee, ctrl alt arrow
<DBO> or rotate the mouse wheel on the desktop
<apokryphos> beta drivers work better here, yup
* Hobbsee watches the cube spin around...and around...and around...
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Try Ctrl-Alt-Up or Ctrl-Alt-Down
<StevenK> Those are also fun.
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<DBO> StevenK, those keybinding will probably get pulled... they are known to be bug farms
<StevenK> Awww.
<StevenK> Why there isn't a desktop on the top or bottom, who knows. :-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: ctrl-alt-(mouse drag)
<StevenK> Ouch!
* StevenK just tried that.
<DBO> StevenK, because the top and bottom of the cube are square
<DBO> but your monitor isnt
<Hobbsee> whee!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee has her toys to play with :)
<bhale> StevenK: dizzy yet?
<DBO> Hobbsee, fun eh?
<Hobbsee> bhale: yeah
<DBO> Hobbsee, have you put your mouse in the corners of your screen yet?
<Hobbsee> DBO: indeed, but i can feel it lagging
<DBO> Hobbsee, thats probably a timestep issue
<Hobbsee> oh, is *that* what that was?
<DBO> there is some induced lag to keep CPU load down
<StevenK> DBO: Ah, of course.
<ajmitch> which is why my cpu is still at 800 MHz
<StevenK> bhale: I don't get dizzy easily.
<Hobbsee> ah
<ajmitch> since it's probably taxing the graphics chipset far more than the CPU in this
<StevenK> Stuff I'm watching won't make me dizzy.
<apokryphos> well, my pc did not like that motion blur. Complete crash up+white screen; killing beryl didn't change anything.
<DBO> Hobbsee, you can of course remove that and see how beryl would perform if we let it eat your CPU alive
<DBO> just enable the benchmark plugin and winkey f12
<apokryphos> DBO: will removing ~/.beryl restore default settings?
<DBO> apokryphos, yes
<DBO> apokryphos, thats beryl troubleshooting 101 =P
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> 20frames per second, cool
<ajmitch> DBO: not bad, ~25 FPS when spinning the cube on this
<DBO> Hobbsee, eh not bad, what resolution
<Hobbsee> 1024x768, as usual
<ajmitch> but about ~30 FPS when it's just sitting with some translucent windows
* DBO gets 800 with every effect on
<DBO> ajmitch, get on the nvidia betas already =P
<ajmitch> DBO: on i915..
<DBO> oh nevermind
* StevenK wonders how it picks the cube face to land on when you let go.
<DBO> yeah the --strict-binding thing is a framerate killer
<DBO> but aiglx needs it
<ajmitch> 2 systems here that I use
<apokryphos> ouch, bad bug; still there
<DBO> StevenK, well you arent supposed to HOLD the button down =P
<DBO> apokryphos, shift backspace? =P
* Hobbsee wonders why she cant click on the diamond again
<apokryphos> eventually, yes
<StevenK> DBO: Aww, why not? :-P
<DBO> StevenK, because thats just silly
<_MMA_> DBO: How close are the nVidia beta drivers to being stable?
<DBO> Hobbsee, normal click on it
<DBO> _MMA_, pretty far
<Hobbsee> DBO: i *did*
<DBO> Hobbsee, odd, we have a new tray applet in svn right now for a reason
<_MMA_> DBO: I was talking to Quinn about Beryl. She told me to wait a little bit.
<DBO> _MMA_, for what?
<_MMA_> I have a 4600+ AM2 and 7900GT Id love to test out.
<DBO> eek yeah you might wanna wait
<_MMA_> Just till some things were more stable.
<DBO> that card is pretty darn new...
* ajmitch still hears of plenty of issues with the beta drivers
<DBO> yep
<DBO> black windows
<DBO> misplaced textures
<DBO> a couple issues with XDamage
<ajmitch> which is why I don't feel like running them on my desktop
<DBO> you know, all the fun with beta drivers
<DBO> they only happen in beryl =P
<ajmitch> odd things with twinview & refresh rates
<DBO> oh yeah
<DBO> that too
<ajmitch> somewhat important that I have twinview working
<DBO> pfft, luxary
<ajmitch> hardly
<DBO> Hobbsee, so has you view of beryl began to soften a bit? =)
<Hobbsee> DBO: yes, it's lovely bling, but i'd get sick of using it constantly, nad it's quite slower
<_MMA_> And while I completely disagree with all the "crack" terminology I have to agree I dont think Beryl should be a default yet. I like it better than Compiz also.
<DBO> Hobbsee, the speed issues are being worked on, a new frame limiter needs to be devised... as for constant usage, like any system you need to get used to it
<Hobbsee> what's the superkey?
<DBO> windows key
<StevenK> I wish I could teach Emacs that Windows == Super.
<apokryphos> as cool as the additional beryl options are, there aren't any I think I'd keep enabled
<Hobbsee> DBO: well, sure, but id' get bored of it - as in, it's bling.  yes, bling is good, but i want speed over bling when i want to do work
<Hobbsee> ah
<DBO> apokryphos, thats why you can disable them
<DBO> Hobbsee, wanna try a quick DBO style speed hack?
<Hobbsee> nice zoom
<DBO> (aka dirty and dumb)
<StevenK> Hrm. How does one zoom?
<DBO> StevenK, super + scroll
<Hobbsee> StevenK: win+right click
<Hobbsee> what the...how can i hit ctrl + windows + move the mouse at the same time?????
<DBO> you can also input keyboard inputs on zoom if you grab svn (like I said various states of disrepair however)
<StevenK> My laptop has neither a scroll wheel or a Windows key.
<StevenK> So nyah.
<DBO> Hobbsee, probably doesnt work so well on a laptop
<DBO> works fine on desktops though =P
<DBO> Hobbsee, in your general options, uncheck detect refresh rate
<DBO> then go to numberic values
<DBO> and set the refresh rate to 200
<apokryphos> DBO: sure, but that's just the reason, I mean, I'd not use beryl at the moment
<apokryphos> (I'd use compiz, that is)
<Hobbsee> hmm.  and when i do manage the task, it doesnt work
<DBO> apokryphos, but you're just one bloke =)
<DBO> Hobbsee, what are you trying to do?
<StevenK> Okay, zoom is very cool.
<DBO> Hobbsee, also if you lower the timestep in the animation plugin to 10 *numberical values, you'll see it*
<DBO> animations get a lot smoother
<StevenK> I think my manager would love that.
<DBO> Hobbsee, are you trying to do the water effect?
<Hobbsee> DBO: yes
<DBO> it wont work on your laptop, you dont have pixel shaders
<apokryphos> DBO: so any idea why I'd get this white screen all of a sudden? Surely if it was a setting I just changed (which is just when it happened), removing .beryl would sort things?
<DBO> apokryphos, did you update mesa with manually installed nvidia drivers?
* StevenK also notes it's fairly easy to lose your desktop when zoomed in.
<TankEnMate> anyone have any idea why udevd wouldn't recreate a keyboard device after it was reconnected but it does appear in /sys/bus/platform/i8042/serio1 ?
<apokryphos> my mesa is updated, yes, and I'm running the beta drivers
<Hobbsee> DBO: awww...that sucks
<DBO> StevenK, yep sure is =P  not exactly sure what causes that
<TankEnMate> does the i8042 driver not send plug events?
<DBO> apokryphos, your libGL.so probably got overwritten by the mesa update
<DBO> apokryphos, reinstall the nvidia drivers
<Hobbsee> suprisingly, my laptop is only sitting 10C hotter than usual
<DBO> Hobbsee, sorry =(
* StevenK notes his laptop has like no CPU load
<apokryphos> DBO: but this problem happened as soon as I changed a setting; I haven't touched my package management in a couple of days
<DBO> Hobbsee, I'll add a routine to calculate pi if username is Hobbsee, hows that? =P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: check win+m and win+n!
<Hobbsee> now that's cool :)
<DBO> oh yeah
<StevenK> No Windows key
<DBO> neg!
* DBO loves negging windows
<Hobbsee> StevenK: make another key the superkey?
<apokryphos> it was the evil motion blur which my poor graphics card can't handle 8)
<Hobbsee> haha
<DBO> apokryphos, ahhhh... hmmm
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Shift, Ctrl, Alt? I need those.
<DBO> apokryphos, your pixel shader might be stuck in a bad state...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: the ~ key or osmething?
<DBO> apokryphos, or the accum buffer...
* StevenK twitches.
<DBO> actually there are lots of things...
<Hobbsee> y now, show desktop no longer works
<DBO> basically have you restarted X apokryphos?
<Hobbsee> make that hey now, and blame beryl for being slow
<apokryphos> yes
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You know XKB rules can be used to scare small children?
<DBO> apokryphos, humor me and reinstall the nvidia driver huh?
<giskard> Hobbsee: baryl slow?
<apokryphos> ok
<Hobbsee> hehe
<DBO> giskard, Hobbsee is running a fairly underpowered system
<StevenK> Ouch!
<DBO> Hobbsee, did you make the changes I suggested for speed?
<Hobbsee> DBO: yes
<DBO> no help?
<Hobbsee> hah  it's only my graphics card that isnt great
<Hobbsee> DBO: yeah, reasonable.
* Hobbsee is over bling now
<DBO> heh
<Hobbsee> excluding the inverting
<DBO> but it WAS fun wasnt it?
<Hobbsee> sure :)
<DBO> neg is very useful
<DBO> makes the web actually readable
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> way cool - the edgy prerelease version of the gnome bakcground
<Hobbsee> it's BLUE!!!!
<Hobbsee> DBO: i'll whinge at no being able to use the show desktop button though
<DBO> Hobbsee, that button works...
<StevenK> Show Desktop works for me.
* DBO double checks
<DBO> yep minimizes everything just fine
<Hobbsee> DBO: no it doesnt, because the bottom left corner is used for something else bling-like
<DBO> you can change the mappings of where those are
<DBO> =P
<StevenK> Yes it is, just put your mouse in the far corner.
<Hobbsee> hmmm it's wokring now
<StevenK> Er.
<Hobbsee> er, sometime
<Hobbsee> s
<StevenK> Don't put your mouse in the far corner.
<DBO> so long as you dont touch the very corner pixel
<DBO> it wont trigger it
<DBO> obvious this is tricky if those events are in the same corner
<Hobbsee> which brilliantly violates fitt's law, i believe
<DBO> so change the corners of the scale plugin =P
<StevenK> Or turn off scale
<DBO> remember, when ubuntu ships beryl, all these defaults can be changed =)
<imbrandon> and will have to be, thats for sure
* imbrandon is back
* Hobbsee prods the window to unscale-freeze
<DBO> welcome back
<DBO> Hobbsee, just click on a window
<Hobbsee> why should i have to?  if i move my mouse away, i expect it to go back to the way it was
<DBO> no its a toggle
<DBO> scaling is a window selector
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<DBO> if you select a window thats on a different desktop
<DBO> it rotates to that window
<DBO> you can also right click on windows to zoom them in
<DBO> and middle click them to close them
<DBO> in later versions you can also input text (no mouse yet)
* Hobbsee wonders how anyone finds this out without reading the manual on it
<StevenK> Usually, by coding it. :-P
<Hobbsee> hah
<DBO> Hobbsee, people tell them
<Hobbsee> yhes, but you cant expect a normal user to do that
<Hobbsee> hmmm okay
<DBO> same way I went on using GNOME for years without knowing about middle click paste
<Hobbsee> i must say, i really like the blue version of the gnome wallpaper :P
<DBO> haha
<Hobbsee> now that is shameful - tha'ts on every linux system
<DBO> thanks =P
* DBO uses Solaris at work
<DBO> heres what it boils down to Hobbsee
<DBO> we think we can do this right
<DBO> we dont want to hurt Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> DBO: you know, if *my* computer is being regarded as on the low end, i'd hate to see what the required system specs are
<DBO> Your computer is meeting them
<Hobbsee> this is still a 2.4ghz celeron, with 1gb of ram
<DBO> oh thats overkill
<DBO> the limiting factor on your computer is the GPU
<Hobbsee> true
<DBO> I can run it on a PII 600 with 256 RAM and a GeForce 3
<DBO> and if you cant run it
<DBO> the manager will fall back to Metacity or Kwin
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.  how many people have good graphics cards?
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> it's actually not *quite* as crackful as i thought
<Hobbsee> i'll admit to that much
<imbrandon> can run and is useabloe is diffrent, i have a 2.9hgz with 1.5gig ram and a i845 video and its not useable
<Hobbsee> it doesnt seem to have died while i've had a shell and firefox open
<DBO> imbrandon, the intel cards need some tweaking still
<Hobbsee> but that's all i was running
<DBO> imbrandon, there is a lot of performance to be squeezed out of those yet
<imbrandon> DBO, and that will happen in the next 2 months ?
<Hobbsee> hah.  my free memory is a little poor though
<DBO> Hobbsee, yeap it eats texture memory, but it will free it when needed
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStickOfDoom:/home/test$ free total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<DBO> imbrandon, most of it is just settings
<Hobbsee> Mem:       1018712     977588      41124          0      46796     650832
<Hobbsee> -/+ buffers/cache:     279960     738752
<Hobbsee> Swap:       546168        128     546040
<Hobbsee> hey cool, irssi has a hotkey if you do actually want to paste multiple lines
<DBO> imbrandon, a lot could be squeezed out just by setting intel specific settings
<Terminus> could inconvenience viewing documentation be classified as a bug?
<Terminus> just wondering before i actually post something on launchpad.
<DBO> Hobbsee, at any rate, if you need any more help with beryl feel free to ask
<DBO> but I need to go shower up
<tuxmaniac> Hello All
<tuxmaniac> I am unable to do a gdmsetu
<tuxmaniac> gdmsetup
<tuxmaniac> It says Unable to access GDM Configuration file
<tuxmaniac> ANy clues
<tuxmaniac> I run edgy
<tuxmaniac> I tried reinstalling everything related to gdm incudng ubuntu-desktop. No success :-(
<tuxmaniac> I also found a similar situation here bug 46193
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46193 in gdm "First attempt to login on gdm fails" [Unknown,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46193
<tuxmaniac> But though I am able to login even the first time
<Hobbsee> hehe - do we not have enough bling already?
<Hobbsee> test@LongPointyStickOfDoom:~$ apt-cache search bling | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 118
* Hobbsee pleads for no more bling
<Hobbsee> that menu stuff is really over the top
<Hobbsee> DBO: looks like you have to quit beryl before playing any games :P
<jsgmobile> Ha ha ha
<bhale> good
<bhale> rhythmbox will be relisenced
<Hobbsee> hey again bhale
* Hobbsee notes that she's definetly over all of bling
<bhale> hi again Hobbsee
<sivang> re all
* sivang is in da house
<Hobbsee> hey sivang!
* sivang hugs orion2012 
<sivang> oops
* sivang hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee hugs sivang 
<Hobbsee> how'd you manager that?
<Hobbsee> -r
<DBO> Hobbsee, you shouldnt have to quit it to play games, but it does eat up GPU resources...
<DBO> as for the menu animations, you can of course change those
<Hobbsee> DBO: i couldnt even play supertux with it :P
<Hobbsee> true.
<DBO> Hobbsee, what was wrong?
<DBO> slightly transparent in areas?
<Hobbsee> DBO: framerate was far too  low
<DBO> ah
<DBO> you are on AIGLX right?
* Hobbsee wishes her computer would stop bitching over the fact that it's 57C.  yes, i know, hush.  tell me when it gets over 80C
<Hobbsee> yeah - i didnt change any settings on it though
<DBO> yeah your xorg.conf could probably get some tweaking done to it
<DBO> anywho
<Hobbsee> which tweakign?
<DBO> driver options
<luisbg> aiglx is a little slow :(
<luisbg> anybody uses telepathy for msn?
<DBO> argh, we broke non-default keybindings in svn =P
<DBO> annoying
<Hobbsee> DBO: change them how?
<giskard> luisbg:  what is your problem?
<imbrandon> tweaking xorg.conf is not good for default   /me stops
<giskard> hello sivang
<DBO> imbrandon, probably not
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i already tweak it in two instances
<sivang> hey giskard
<luisbg> my video card probably isn't using it's acceleration
<DBO> imbrandon, i by no means know whats best, Im only trying to suggest solutions
<imbrandon> DBO, yup
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i dont care if i trash thsi partition
<Hobbsee> i will care if it formats the /home attached to it though
<Hobbsee> but otherwise, i dont care
<imbrandon> DBO, its nothing personal, its just the more and more i see it the more and more i do like it BUT the more and more i see its not near ready for default
<jsgmobile> Go go go
<DBO> imbrandon, well, we got 4 months to prove you wrong
<jsgmobile> *but its so pretty*
<jsgmobile> ;D
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> DBO, no not really, you have 1 week till UDS , the code really needs to be mature to show by then
<luisbg> the "ati" driver (at xorg.conf) is the "slow" one right?
<bhale> yes, if you have to slice it that way
<DBO> imbrandon, well, then its going to be a fun trip huh? =)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> DBO, but as i said its nothing personal, and i realy do like beryl, i'm just trying to be pratical here
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: let practical come at UDS :P
<jsgotangco> Heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm sure mdz and the like will be practical
<DBO> we can only hope =)
<jsgotangco> UDS MV looks interesting
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: indeed
<Hobbsee> EWWW!!!!!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, we can hope but not county on it as mark sugested it by default without a release ever being made of the project let alone a stable release :)
<Hobbsee> true
<jsgotangco> Huh?
* Hobbsee just inverted the default kubuntu background
<jsgotangco> Lol
<Hobbsee> DBO: found a bug
<DBO> Hobbsee, I bet we know but what is it? =P
<jsgotangco> You never know what he thinks sometimes
<Hobbsee> DBO: if you use the inverted mode, then take a screenshot, the screenshot is of the normal mode
<DBO> Hobbsee, ok that I didnt know...
<Hobbsee> hahahaha :D
<Hobbsee> that's with using windows+m
<DBO> Hobbsee, use scrot
<DBO> that does it properly
<Hobbsee> scrot?
* grimace agrees, scrot
<DBO> sudo apt-get install scrot
<jsgotangco> What a smelly sounding name for a package lol
<DBO> haha
<DBO> yeah
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> "what'd you do today?"  "oh, i worked on scrot"   "Um, okay"
<DBO> I think its pronounced rhyming with rot, not coat
<grimace> that would be scrote ;)
<DBO> yeah... scrot isnt as bad
<DBO> at least by comparison
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> doesnt work with ksnapshot either
<DBO> yeah but it works with scrot =P
<Hobbsee> :P
<DBO> are you sure you arent looking at the screenshots while neg is still on?
<DBO> because then it would look normal
<DBO> as two negatives make a positive
<imbrandon> that aint not true
<DBO> you know they say two positives dont make a negatives
<DBO> yeah right
<DBO> s/s$//
<Hobbsee> there's a point
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> my bad
<Hobbsee> DBO: oh, and has beryl suddenly changed ctrl+alt+backspace to shutting down the machine?
<DBO> nope
* Hobbsee found that her machine shut down, instead of logging out on her.
<jsgotangco> Thats crack
<Hobbsee> hmm, weird
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: yep
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: i intend to ditch this partition, so i dont actually care, as long as it doesnt kill /home
<bddebian> Heya gang
<DBO> ...why would you zap your x server just to log out...
<Hobbsee> DBO: i didnt - i hit the log out button in xfce
<Hobbsee> er, in gnome sorry
<DBO> hmmm no that shouldnt do that
<DBO> Hobbsee, see if you can reproduce it?
<Hobbsee> DBO: i will in a bit, yeah
<jldugger> how does System->Administration know to run gksu on the programs in that menu?
<zul> hey
<geser> jldugger: see for example /usr/share/applications/synaptic.desktop
<jdong> what is the policy on uploading to edgy-updates?
<jdong> would anyone consider doing one for bug 42269? I've prepared the full sources already
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "Does not create a tray icon" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42269
<jldugger> jdong: someone should probably look into when that started
<jldugger> once its been fixed
<phanatic> good evening
<pwnguin> oh. apparently services and network uses dbus and checks for group admin
<pwnguin> since im not in the admin group, some of that stuff wasnt working
<TankEnMate> adios
<jekil> how on edgy upgrade notes is write tu upgrade with update-manager and is write that apt-get can get errors?
<rgl> I need some help to package a program made of rubygem, any pointers?
<luisbg> is feisty open totally or not yet?
<imbrandon> not for another week or so
<luisbg> imbrandon, ow wow
<luisbg> anyway they deserve a vacation =)
<luisbg> should make the releases coincide with special days... like a christmas one, and then open the next one the second week of january
<luisbg> plus...
<luisbg> they will give all the users a nice present =)
<luisbg> is cannonical going to ship for free edgy cd's as they did with hoary? have a install party in two weeks at my college
<lloydinho> luisbg, they will continue to ship out Dapper CDs through shipit, but send out a few boxes of Edgy CDs to the Loco teams and some of the LUGs.
<luisbg> lloydinho, some of the lugs? is there a way to register the lug of my collegue?
<poningru> so quick question is it possible for me to build packages on a gentoo system?
<luisbg> poningru, building ubuntu packages in a gentoo you mean?
<poningru> right
<lloydinho> luisbg: I wouldn't know, try contacting Canonical through the ship-it mail address.
<azeem> poningru: you can create a Ubuntu chroot on your gentoo system and build stuff there I guess
<poningru> azeem: hmm true
<luisbg> lloydinho, doing so
<lloydinho> In any case I don't think you should expect to be able to receive the CDs within two weeks. It usually takes at least 6 weeks for them to arrive - depending on where you are in the world (they all ship from the Netherlands)
<luisbg> azeem, that's a good idea
<luisbg> lloydinho, spain... but well, can use them the next time
<lloydinho> luisbg: Sure, go for it. If you get registered, I'm sure it will be possible for you to order boxes of CDs another time.
<luisbg> cool
<luisbg> will do
<pcniatic> hello, i have a question about MoM, anyone can help me?
<shawarma> pcniatic: It's much easier if you just ask. It's pretty hard to know in advance if you know the answer to a question you haven't heard yet.
<pcniatic> jeje, ok, i want to help merging packages from debian to ubuntu, but i read that i must be a MOTU to upload the changes, then how can i help?
<imbrandon> pcniatic: you can do the merge and then ask a MOTU to review it and upload when you are finished
<ajmitch> morning all
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch
<pcniatic> but this review is through REVU?
<zul> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> pcniatic: not really, mosty either find a motu to work with that is arround when you are is the best way imho or email the motu ML with a location where you have uploaded it somewhere, REVU is only for new packages to ubuntu
* imbrandon is afk for a few minutes
<pcniatic> ah ok, thanks imbrandom
<luisbg> pcniatic, welcome aboard
<pcniatic> thanks, luisbg
<luisbg> =)
<luisbg> pcniatic, have you contributed to other projects?
<pcniatic> nops, first time
<pcniatic> why?
<luisbg> just to tell you you will find this community very friendly and helpful
<luisbg> I've been in a few and this is by far the friendliest
<luisbg> btw... I'm a newbie too
<luisbg> but don't hesitate to ask
<pcniatic> oh thats great
<poningru> :)
<poningru> <-- newbie too
<poningru> well when it comes to ubuntu packaging
* poningru <3 gentoo
* poningru ducks
<luisbg> gentoo was very cool like 3 or 4 years ago
<luisbg> but I've been a debian guy all along (until ubuntu appeared)
<pcniatic> i have been around some projects, but never active
<luisbg> having to wait 10 hours for openoffice.org to compile... is not my idea of "quality user experience"
<pcniatic> i use to be a fedora boy, but when ubuntu apear that change
<pcniatic> yep, thats true
<poningru> luisbg: naah I do not like OOo
<poningru> I generally do not do gui till I saw ubuntu
<luisbg> I never got to like the whole fedora red hat deal
<luisbg> poningru, it was an example
<poningru> luisbg: true
<luisbg> just used that because it's a heavy thing to compile
<luisbg> poningru, most linux geeks that have been around prior to 2002 aprox... have had a moment of their life without gui's
<luisbg> all console stuff
<luisbg> did you ever got to use centericq for messaging?
<luisbg> and irssi for irc
* luisbg sees a "I still use irssi" reply
<poningru> hehe never tried centericq
<poningru> luisbg: hehe actually xchat
<poningru> brb shower time
* luisbg <3 xchat
<poningru> so yeah...
<poningru> I had an idea the other day...
<poningru> ubuntu on ps3
<poningru> sell ubuntu with a keyboard+mouse for ps3
* imbrandon is on irssi right now
<imbrandon> but i've been arround a bit longer than 2002 ( dosent mean I /like/ cli , only convient at times )
<luisbg> poningru, how much does a ps3 cost?
<imbrandon> luisbg: way too much
<luisbg> imbrandon, 2002 wouth a rough estimate of the real gui boom in linux... gnome/kde started being big
<luisbg> imbrandon, can you hook up a ps3 to a computer monitor or does it have to be a tv?
<imbrandon> luisbg: i've used a gui the whole time i've used linux :)
<imbrandon> luisbg: afaik only a tv, dunno, dont really care
<imbrandon> its to expensive for what you get
<poningru> luisbg: what imbrandon siad
<poningru> luisbg: no you can hook it up to a monitor
<poningru> dvi -> vga adapter
<luisbg> poningru, is the video output dvi? cool
<imbrandon> and kde started arround 1996 :)
<poningru> and plus new monitors will have hdmi adapters right no them
<luisbg> I'm not much of a videogame guy... so it is too expensive for me too
<poningru> s/no/on
<poningru> luisbg: but if you can use it as a computer its actually pretty cheap
<luisbg> imbrandon, yeah but the first version wheren't that great :P
<imbrandon> luisbg: werent great !=  unuseable
<imbrandon> :)
<luisbg> imbrandon, true
<luisbg> but... wrent great = no big reason to make the change
<luisbg> in the user mind changing takes some force that has to be compensated with a benefit
<luisbg> that's why ecodesigns don't have success, they still don't have benefit for the user to make the change (plus usually more expensive)
<imbrandon> not totaly right, if you mean main stream then yes, if you mean those that care about FLOSS then no
<imbrandon> the pure fact the source is avail is reason enough to switch else none of this would be here now
<luisbg> imbrandon, I wasn't talking about software
<luisbg> but in that example
<luisbg> most offices don't see the open source deal a reason to stop using winsucks and office
<luisbg> but when you explain them... no hang ups, no reboots, no licenses, etc... they start to change their mind
<luisbg> especially the no licenses part
<imbrandon> servers were the first to change and rightly so
<poningru> in the us the linux server marketshare is rapidly increasing
<imbrandon> thats how most of us "old timers" got into it ( i said most )
<poningru> hold on let me get the source
<luisbg> linux has been "better than the rest" for servers... far before than for desktops
<luisbg> makes a lot of sense
<poningru> guess it wasnt in the us
<poningru> http://www.sda-asia.com/sda/features/psecom,id,706,nodeid,1,_language,Singapore.html
<luisbg> I don't understand how corporations don't make a "flavor" of linux for them and install it in all worker machines
<luisbg> would be far more cheaper than paying closed software licenses
<poningru> exactly
<imbrandon> luisbg: most do
<poningru> and then use some sort of ltsp to use leftover desktop cycles to power their servers
<imbrandon> luisbg: ever heard of goobuntu ? ibm also does as with coutless others
<luisbg> imbrandon, really? so why the workers aren't using the same OS at home?
<poningru> imbrandon: but those are very large corps
<imbrandon> luisbg: why would they ?
<luisbg> ibm is a different case... with their pro linux adds =)
<poningru> I am speaking about a bit smaller
<luisbg> because they get to like the system they use at work
<imbrandon> if they are smaller they dont have the hundreds of people it takes to keep a distro uptodate, they benifet from someone else doing the work and they just customize what they need
<imbrandon> why would my company of 50 emplyees pay 100+ people to kep a linux distro updated and working ?
<imbrandon> i wouldent i would use ubuntu or suse or redhat etc
<imbrandon> and only customize what i need
<poningru> imbrandon: thats too small
<poningru> I am speaking more along the lines of couple of thousand
<poningru> like banks
<imbrandon> poningru: just how many do you think work for ibm in the it dept ? its definately not more than a few thousand
<luisbg> anyway... get them a edgy with the software they need to work and only give them access to a user account
<imbrandon> poningru: ok what advantage does a bank have to pay 100+ people to get a distro working and upto date full time, instead of useing debian or ubuntu and paying 3 or 4 to keep it customized ?
<poningru> imbrandon: I was thinking along those lines
<poningru> take ubuntu/gentoo/debian and customize it
<imbrandon> poningru: and that happens nearly every day at every company
<imbrandon> i still fail to see your point ...
* poningru hasnt seen it here in the US
<poningru> every office I go into has windows running
* imbrandon is here in the US and worked in the IT feild for 15 years
<imbrandon> and see it everyday
<poningru> 0.o
<poningru> where are you?
<imbrandon> Kansas City, but i have worked in Reno, New york, Nashville, Galviston
<luisbg> imbrandon, if that was the case... loads of motus would be paid to customize ubuntus
<imbrandon> and a few other places
<luisbg> but I think it will happen eventualy
<imbrandon> luisbg: how do you figure >
<poningru> imbrandon: well down here in florida I havent seen it
<imbrandon> brb afk, but you havent been looking then is all i can say :)
<luisbg> heh
<imbrandon> one sec too i just thought about something, FWIW mosty banks run OS/2 anyhow on their terminals and atm's :)
* imbrandon is really afk now
<poningru> well dont know about their atms
<luisbg> atms run windows
<poningru> but I know the wachovia and boa terminals inside their banks used for online banking all use windows
<luisbg> yes... I don't understand it either
<poningru> they do???
<poningru> naah that cant be right
<luisbg> never heard the stories of atms sudden reboots
<luisbg> and crashes
<luisbg> that make the windows teletubbie field appear?
<luisbg> anybody knows of a pda that can run linux that has wifi?
<poningru> nope
<poningru> err nope @ your earlier comments
<luisbg> poningru, a few years ago there was a story about it in slashdot
<luisbg> in a collegue at the us
<imbrandon> luisbg: not boa, they run OS/2 i contract with them quite often ( both terms and atm's )
<luisbg> some geeks so this reboot and decided to use the machine to play music at the windows media and make a party around it
<poningru> luisbg: the nokia internet tablet
<luisbg> http://www.thetartan.org/2004/3/22/scitech/brokenatmturnedintojukebox
<poningru> imbrandon: well their in bank terminals setup for logging into their online banking uses windows
<luisbg> poningru, does it come with linux from factory or you have to install a linux pda distro?
<luisbg> when ubuntu flavor for pda's? ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu, pubuntu?
<poningru> luisbg: it has linux preinstalled
<luisbg> linux debian!?!?!?!?
<luisbg> wow!!!
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmbeddedUbuntu
<poningru> imbrandon: see I wanted to do something with that and ps3
<imbrandon> poningru: why the ps3 has a full cell processor and perfs
<luisbg> I just fell in love
<imbrandon> its a expensive paperweight
<poningru> ?
<imbrandon> you want to mod something good get an xbox classic
<luisbg> imbrandon, talking about the ps3 or nokia internet tablet?
<imbrandon> ps3
<poningru> imbrandon: I know been there done that
<poningru> but if we can release a build for ps3... that would be so cool
<poningru> because then we can turn on the aiglx and other stuff
<luisbg> poningru, I don't think so
<poningru> no?
<luisbg> ps3 has an ati right?
<poningru> nvidia
<luisbg> well is nvidia going to let you share copies of their linux driver?
<poningru> supposedly ps3 will have it already installed
<imbrandon> it wouldent matter as its a cell processor and those are close source drivers so they wont work on anyting but x86
<luisbg> poningru, supposedly ps3 is going to bring a linux installed
<luisbg> *supposedly*
<poningru> yep
<luisbg> they said the same about the ps2 a few years back
<luisbg> and they realized it made game piracy too easy
<imbrandon> so buy a computer with tv-out , much better
<luisbg> imbrandon, make it a mac
<imbrandon> mac falls under the category of computers
<imbrandon> so yes
<imbrandon> :)
<luisbg> imbrandon, =)
<pcniatic> what does 'afk' means?
<luisbg> away from keyboard
* luisbg <3 his powerbook with ubuntu... beauty inside... beauty outside
* luisbg wants an iMac :P
* poningru wants a iSmack
<imbrandon> i'm typing this on an ibook :)
<imbrandon> ok time to run , see yall
<poningru> cya
<poningru> yall??
<imbrandon> you all
<luisbg> LOL
<poningru> no I know what that means just didnt expect imbrandon to say it
<poningru> :p
<imbrandon> why?
* poningru shrugs
<imbrandon> gah i got to go
<poningru> bye
<pcniatic> bye
* poningru wonders if imbrandon really left
<lifeless> morning
<ajmitch> morning lifeless
<ajmitch> lifeless: you'll be there in MV next week?
* Q-FUNK definitely won't
<lifeless> yup
<ajmitch> lifeless: which flight are you on? NZ8 to SFO?
<lifeless> UA870
<ajmitch> ah right
<zul> when do you guys leave?
<lifeless> saturday
<ajmitch> saturday evening, arrive saturday morning
<zul> ah..
<zul> i leave saturday morning, get there around lunch time
* Plug loves time travel flights
<ajmitch> yes, 12 hour flights are so fun, too
<zul> 6 hour flight for me
<Ty> yo
<Ty> yo
<elw_> I would like to help with motu, how do I help?
<crimsun> see the topic, please.
<lupine_85> ho hum, no progress on my bug :/ -- is everyone taking a well-deserved post-edgy-release break? ;)
<ajmitch> either that or noone knows of your bug
<plugwash> apparently there is some toolchain bootstrapping that has to happen before things can really start moving on feisty
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> that's underway
<LaserJock> :(
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> I was just reading some "Developers don't care about users cause I can't dist-upgrade" stuff
<crimsun> well that's obviously true
<ajmitch> of course we hate users
<joejaxx> yes you should all be ashamed of yourselves :(
<ajmitch> it's what we do all day
<KriS83> Hi :)
<joejaxx> </sarcasm>
<crimsun> I wonder how I can make users' lives miserable!!
<joejaxx> crimsun: i know we can think of something
<crimsun> lj: people who say such things tend to forget that developers are users, too
<LaserJock> well, I can imagine finding it on the forums, but I didn't expect it on planet
<LaserJock> I guess I'm going to have my post-release blues after all
<LaserJock> and then get back in the game
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I know how it is
<LaserJock> I just wish for once a release was a happy thing
<Lutin_> is there a way to lower an epoch version (eg. if I increased the epoch when I shouldn't, and I want to change it back)
<crimsun> oh believe me, a release is always a happy thing.
<crimsun> We no longer have to support Hoary!
<ajmitch> yay
<joejaxx> crimsun: i have thought of something!
<ajmitch> Lutin_: if the package has already been uploaded, then no
<crimsun> joejaxx: removing fluxbox from the archive? ;)
<ajmitch> you're stuck with an epoch forever
<ajmitch> crimsun: yay!
<joejaxx> crimsun: quick someone plug the plug on the cisco router routing replies to the universe server!
<joejaxx> crimsun: haha yes
<theCore> crimsun, is there really people still using Hoary?
<crimsun> oh yes
<theCore> servers?
<crimsun> there are people still using Debian Potato, in fact
<ajmitch> of course
<Lutin_> ajmitch: theres really _no_ way to come back ?
<ajmitch> I still use sarge at home
<ajmitch> Lutin_: that's why epochs come with a big warning
<joejaxx> crimsun: :)
<joejaxx> crimsun: what whould people do with out universe
<Q-FUNK> OOo can really be a pain in the arse, sometimes... *sigh*
<crimsun> joejaxx: maybe get a cup of tea, read the paper, yanno, have a life...
<joejaxx> crimsun: lol :P
<theCore> I started using Linux on Hoary... *sigh* It feel like a part of me has been removed :P
<_MMA_> crimsun: He raked the yard the other day. :)
<Lutin_> ajmitch: okay, thanks
<luisbg> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/10/28/239258.shtml
<ajmitch> yes, we've seen that a few times now
<luisbg> ajmitch, sorry, just saw it now... btw what does "QA" mean?
<Plug> quality assurance
<luisbg> ooh ok ;)
<theCore> ah, the horror, I installed a checkinstall package
<theCore> fast, apt-get remove
<theCore> ah....
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o imbrandon]  by ChanServ
<imbrandon> theCore: eh?
<theCore> imbrandon, got checkinstall on your highlighting list? :)
* LaserJock cries
<joejaxx> theCore: apt-get --purge remove LOL
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o imbrandon]  by imbrandon
<imbrandon> grrr
<luisbg> what's wrong LaserJock ?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :(
<LaserJock> luisbg: that slashdot story
* theCore rofl!
<imbrandon> deop isnt working, i hate irssi sometimes
* poningru hugs LaserJock 
<luisbg> LaserJock, don't stress about it, some anti-ubuntu posted the story... but read the comments of it... loads of "hey! I had no problem" and lots of ubuntu love
<luisbg> plus... it's known (and especially in open source) that the ones with troubles make much more noise than the "all went perfect"
* luisbg kick LaserJock "be a MAN" :P
* LaserJock gets ahold of himself and starts work on feisty ;-)
<theCore> feisty is open?
<luisbg> theCore, more or less
<luisbg> main is
<imbrandon> less
<luisbg> but the rest is not
<poningru> hhe
<bhale> has anyone upgraded?
* bhale school girls
<luisbg> so it's in a opening state, but closed still
<luisbg> bhale, to feisty? makes no sense
<LaserJock> hmm, surely I have a production server I can dist-upgrade to feisty
<imbrandon> bhale: i have one box siting in the corner thats gonna try to ride it out
<theCore> LaserJock, looking for troubles?
<imbrandon> but it does nothing currently
<imbrandon> i think its a p200 :)
<bhale> nice
<bhale> luisbg: of course it makes sense, I am core-dev, and have things to do
<bhale> I usually do start with a debootstrap, though
<luisbg> bhale, indeed in your case it does
<luisbg> I thought core-dev's were taking a post-release vacation
<theCore> how big is the divergence of edgy with debian is, right now?
<bhale> not all of us work for Canonical
<imbrandon> luisbg: i've seen 4 core-devs talk in the last 10 minutes :) ( including me )
<imbrandon> not all of us are paid ( though it would be cool )
<bhale> I disagree
<zul> some core-devs are around there arent talking though
<bhale> I like getting to thumb my nose at Mark's silly ideas
<imbrandon> moins zul
<LaserJock> theCore: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> theCore: how many ubuntuX packages are there?
<zul> hey imbrandon
<LaserJock> well, Kamion is around enough to reject my too-late-for-edgy upload
<LaserJock> :-)
<theCore> LaserJock, no, the number of packages that has a higher version number
<theCore> LaserJock, that will need to be sync'd
<imbrandon> theCore: really depends on how you look at it, on a package level , very little, on a installed system level they might as well be diffrent sepcies
<imbrandon> its all in your view of divergance
<LaserJock> theCore: higher version in Ubuntu or in Debian?
<theCore> LaserJock, in Debian
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> lots
<luisbg> imbrandon, I'm still new to the channel so don't know which people are what yet :S
<imbrandon> theCore: about 2 months worth of debian uploads or so
<LaserJock> theCore: 3799 right
<LaserJock> now
<theCore> ouch
<imbrandon> luisbg: :)
<luisbg> imbrandon, so you are a core-dev too?
<LaserJock> luisbg: don't worry, we don't either ;-)
<imbrandon> luisbg: yes
<luisbg> LaserJock, what worry or know who is who?
<LaserJock> know who is who
<imbrandon> luisbg: as is crimsun and ajmitch and quite a number of others in here :)
* LaserJock toddles of to a corner talking to himself
<zul> yeah but ajmitch is a slacker ;)
<LaserJock> it's the post-edgy insanity I tell you!
<imbrandon> hehehe
<LaserJock> I'm mad, I'm mad!
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
* zul was mad pre-edgy
<LaserJock> we duh
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-22
<porthose> Would a kind over worked MOTU please close Bug #134342.  This package has been accepted into debian and is no longer valid.  Thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134342 in ubuntu "[needs packaging] Themeampache" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134342
<bmk789> lauchazombie: so your wanting to contribute to ubuntu but dont know programming?
<lauchazombie> i have a bit of what i learn reading books
<lauchazombie> like c for dummies and staff but i never really made something
<bmk789> well im in the same boat with you
<bmk789> but theres plenty of other thing you can do to contribute without programming
<bmk789> how long have you been using ubuntu?
<lauchazombie> like?
<lauchazombie> well im on about 2 years
<lauchazombie> and i had used other distros
<bmk789> huh, same here
<lauchazombie> so bmk789 how do can i help?
<bmk789> you can hand out ubuntu CDs to friends, family, strangers you meet shopping for computers in best buy, you can submit bugs to launchpad, and help out newer users on the forums and IRC
<imbrandon> lauchazombie: you can do some packageing and fix bugs ( small ones A) from launchpad with little/no programing
<bmk789> and theres a documentation group i think
<lauchazombie> <bmk789> you can hand out ubuntu CDs to friends, family, strangers you meet shopping for computers in best buy, you can submit bugs to launchpad, and help out newer users on the forums and IRC <---- well im really in to difussion in my college for example not only ubuntu free software in general
<TheMuso> tiagoboldt: Did you ask ScottK whether he was ok with you doing one of his merges?
<tiagoboldt> TheMuso, he started by helping me, than he had to leave and norsetto helped me finishing it
<tiagoboldt> I'm not sure if it is 100% ok, but a sure hope it is:)
<tiagoboldt> is there any problem TheMuso ?
<TheMuso> tiagoboldt: As long as he was ok with you doing it, thats fine.
<tiagoboldt> :)
<jdong> do I have to subscribe someone to a universe SRU candidate before motu-uvf is aware?
<jdong> superm1: btw thanks for taking a look at the debdiff for me
<superm1> jdong, no prob.  you can subscribe motu-uvf
<jdong> ok
<superm1> jdong, and i saw ScottK mention in here that he has a +1 for it, but i'd like him to leave that on the bug before i'll upload
<superm1> and of course fix those two things i mentioned :)
<jdong> superm1: will do; my .debdiff was designed with hardy in mind, as I explained in a follow up to your comment
<superm1> ah didn't see.
<jdong> I wanted to get a green-light from -uvf because I KNOW they'll be extremely uneasy about hte circumstances of this SRU candidate
<jdong> (i.e. it's a completely different packaging)
<superm1> but mind you azureus is very broke right now
<superm1> so ltos of changes to make it work > doesn't work
<superm1> (imo)
<superm1> jdong, i'll follow up with you tomorrow or so, i've got to run errands for multiple hours this evening.
<jdong> superm1: I tried to express the same reasoning :)
<jdong> superm1: ok, thanks for you help
<bmk789> i thought azureus only needed the 2.5.04 jar?
<jdong> bmk789: you mean replacing Azureus2.jar from upstream?
<bmk789> yes
<jdong> bmk789: that's a hackjob band-aid
<jdong> bmk789: the core problem is that our patches + a GCJ compiler = producing noncompliant Azureus2.jar
<jdong> bmk789: correct fix is the build Azureus2.jar via icedtea, a non-broken compiler
<bmk789> ah i see
<jdong> bmk789: shipping Azureus2.jar from upstream is like shipping a Fedora tarball of openoffice.org in a deb because openoffice was broken
<jdong> totally hackish and wrong solution that just happens to work
 * imbrandon strenthens his dislike for java apps
<jdong> imbrandon: meh I think its future looks better thanks to a FOSS java chain that's not crap
<bmk789> openoffice isnt in java is it?
<jdong> no offense to GCJ folks who have poured their heart and time into the product
<jdong> bmk789: parts of it
<jdong> bmk789: most multimedia abilities depend on a Java stack
<imbrandon> jdong: what about compiling with blackdown, i thought i was justa java fork
<jdong> imbrandon: last time I checked, blackdown stopped at 1.4.x?
<imbrandon> and?
<jdong> Azureus uses Java 1.5 language features
<imbrandon> ah
<zul> i cant spell tonight more so than usual
<imbrandon> jdong: looks like your on the path to multiverse then ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: icedtea is universe
<imbrandon> ahh
<jdong> which works out perfectly, as azureus is universe too :)
<jdong> imbrandon: earlier today I was considering multiverse demotion, but that wouldn't work apparently because the stupid java6-jdk package pops up an EULA that can't be accepted on the buildd's :D
<imbrandon> well if a SRU wont fly alwasy you can just fix it for hardy ( the LTS ) and we can -backport it
<imbrandon> jdong: ^
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah, that's my failsafe :)
<imbrandon> i've already got another -backport in the works and its not even built for hardy yet heh
<bmk789> can someone recommend a good C development program?
<imbrandon> bmk789: as in? like learn C development by example ?
<bmk789> ya
<imbrandon> hrm not right off, scour google, there is tons out there, but also going off your comments from earlier you know you dont have to program to package software correct? its a whole nother beaste
<bmk789> really?
<imbrandon> yea programing and packaging are totaly seperate, check out .....
<imbrandon> !packageguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<bmk789> so im guessing packaging consists of downloading the code, compiling and building a deb?
<imbrandon> yes, thats a really short version of it , but yea thats the simplistic basics
<bmk789> ok thanks ill look into that
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> if you need anything feel free to still poke us
<imbrandon> but i sugest giving that url a once over
<imbrandon> also there is a nice ( but old ) short primer by zonk on the IBM page
<imbrandon> if you wanna look at it
<imbrandon> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-debpkg.html
<bmk789> this helps a lot, thanks
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> jdong: your still active on the -backports right ?
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah
<jdong> been a bit busy recently
<jdong> schoolwork not treating me too well
<jdong> but still active on the project
<jdong> all this time I've still been meaning to want to do some MOTU work and qualify for MOTU....
<imbrandon> jdong: hey install / test this for me ... http://ppa.launchpad.net/imbrandon/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/netsurf/netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1_i386.deb
<jdong> imbrandon: what version of Ubuntu?
<imbrandon> i'm gonna file a bug soon for gutsy -backport but want some other testers
<imbrandon> gutsy
<imbrandon> its in my repo if you wanna do it that way
<imbrandon> x86_64 built too if your not on i386
<imbrandon> jdong: are we still not allowed to do direct -backport uploads ? this should be a streight sync from debian lenny but dident make the autosync cutoff
<imbrandon> i was hoping to fakesync it ( upload ) to -backports before the hardy opens
<jdong> imbrandon: you're core-dev and backporter, you can do whatever you want :)
<imbrandon> hahah i know i _CAN_ i was asking was it still frowned on
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah, archive won't be too happy
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> its really a slick browser, html 4 and css2, just dosent have javascript support
<imbrandon> ( some may like that lol , no ad's )
<jdong> sounds cool
<bmk789> would AMD64 packaging be of more demand than i386?
<nxvl> tiagoboldt: are you done with the bug?
<imbrandon> bmk789: the source packages are the same, the buildd's build for i386 x86_64 ppc ihppa etc
<imbrandon> so you done really have to worry to much about it
<tiagoboldt> nxvl, guess so
<nxvl> how do i work with rc bugs?
<nxvl> i'm on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<nxvl> and i found a FTBFS bug
<nxvl> now i'm dgeting the code from ubuntu dsc
<jdong> imbrandon: unless of course it's x264 in which case every arch rains bloody hell upon your suffering soul.... :)
<nxvl> now do i need to open a bug on LP?
<nxvl> and how do i add a comment on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<imbrandon> jdong: install work fine?
<imbrandon> ... install & work ...
<jdong> imbrandon: installed, lemme try running it
<imbrandon> k
<jdong> imbrandon: seems to work fine :)
<imbrandon> kk, i'll file a backport then soonish
<bluefoxicy> ... don't 64 bit libs belong in /lib64 <.<
 * bluefoxicy has /lib64 -> /lib o_o
<bluefoxicy> and a /lib32
<RAOF_> bluefoxicy: On x86-64?  32bit libs belong in  lib32, and native libs (ie: 64bit libs) belong in /lib.  There's that debian multiarch document lying around on the net somewhere.
<bluefoxicy> RAOF_:  I'm trying to get to google but my network is being horrible (awesome throughput, horrible actually-do-something) ... to verify against the FHS
<bluefoxicy> 64 bytes from py-in-f99.google.com (64.233.167.99): icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=34.9 ms  <-- each being several seconds apart @_@
<bluefoxicy> http://lists.debian.org/debian-glibc/2006/09/msg00113.html
<RAOF> I was thinking of http://lackof.org/taggart/hacking/multiarch/ , but that's quite ooooold.
<bluefoxicy> yes I'm trying to get to the current standard now.  My network is being super-crap.
<bluefoxicy> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#LIB64  OK, this is wtf
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  Officially according to FHS (not Debian), x86-64 64-bit libs go in lib64 and 32-bit x86 libs go in lib
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  IA64 libs (intel Itanium) go in lib
<bluefoxicy> which .... does not make sense.
<bluefoxicy> well.  The rationale is that IA64 deprecates 32-bit so you shouldn't use 32-bit programs on IA64 (yeah, sure *cough* poor engineering *cough*)
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  to be fair, every single Linux distro gets it wrong.  It's a Microsoft-style standard, i.e. the standard says X but everyone else does Y so we'll act like Y is the standard.
<bluefoxicy> (in microsoft's case they make themselves "everyone else" and everyone just conforms to them)
<RAOF> The Debian multiarch proposal looks moderatily sane.
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  sane maybe.  What if I install a 32-bit .deb for i386 on a 64-bit system?
<RAOF> But if *I* were writing a FHS document, I'd be stipulating that the most-native libs go in /usr/lib, and others go in /usr/libwhatever.
<bluefoxicy> (which puts libraries in /lib)
<lifeless> bluefoxicy: under multiarch they don't
<RAOF> Indeed.  The put it in /usr/lib/i386-linux/
<RAOF> s/the/they/
<bluefoxicy> lifeless:  debs don't literally store the file system structure; or dpkg just automatically notices the structure and moves stuff around?
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: Multiarch compliant .debs store stuff in /usr/lib/arch-os
<lifeless> bluefoxicy: neither
<RAOF> That won't prevent old, non-compliant debs from dancing all over your careful structure.
<RAOF> Also, hi lifeless :)
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  So if I install libogg on i386 ubuntu, it puts stuff in /usr/lib; but if I install the same exact .deb file on an x86-64 system, it puts it in /usr/lib/arch-os?
<bluefoxicy> Or do I need to find a special deb
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: You need to find a special deb.  One that's compliant to the multiarch standard.
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  that's what I'm saying.  The point of /lib64 + /lib vs /lib and /lib32 was that you don't need to play games
<Hobbsee> some villiage has lost their idiot....
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  Yes but you're just on vacation right?  :)
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: :P
<Hobbsee> it's Yet Another Person Who Cannot Read For Shit.
<Hobbsee> that's 4 this weekend, iirc.
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: But you're going to have to play games *eventually*, and it's our responsibility (as distributions) to bend upstream stuff to our policy.
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  mm?  AFAIK upstream ... doesn't particularly care, or some such.  I know the core samba project in particular follows /lib /lib64
<RAOF> Yeah.  And so, if our policy is lib, lib32, then we need to make their stuff comply.
<bluefoxicy> ... which is exactly what you do now >.>
 * bluefoxicy shrugs.
<RAOF> Incidentally, that Debian plan includes some backwards-compatibility stuff (/lib64 -> /usr/lib/x86-64-linux, /lib32 -> /usr/lib/i386-linux)
<RAOF> Indeed.  It doesn't require upstream to follow the same policy as us.
<bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ file /lib64 /lib32
<bluefoxicy> /lib64: symbolic link to `/lib'
<bluefoxicy> /lib32: directory
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  not a symlink :)
<bluefoxicy> (I don't have any such i386-linux anywhere)
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  seems like you've failed to follow Debian policy too :>
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: Oh, yeah.  Totally.  That mulitarch document isn't implemented yet.  It's a proposal.  Sorry if you were thinking I was talking about done work :)
<bluefoxicy> ah
<bluefoxicy> argh I have to reboot, networking on 64 bit is seriously broken by now >>
<bluefoxicy> ... awesome, gutsy can't read my ipod either o.o
<bluefoxicy> this is the most broken release yet >.> when I get network back I'm filing some bugs
<bluefoxicy> rebooting.  LAter.
<ScottK> jdong: SRU (after Hardy opens) is just up to the MOTU uploading and the archive admins.  I'd suggest discuss it with pitti during the week and see what he thinks.
<bluefoxicy> crud it's a local issue with network
<bluefoxicy> comcast is being trash.
<jdong> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: That's their speciality.
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  if I ping google, it takes like 5-10 seconds between pings
<bluefoxicy> but, the ping time is 35mS
<ScottK> Probably DNS.
<bluefoxicy> No, not dns.
<ScottK> No?
<bluefoxicy> it finds the IP address.
<bluefoxicy> it's started to fix itself now though.  Hrm.
<ScottK> If you ping the IP (rather than by name) is it faster?
<bluefoxicy> no
<ScottK> I was thinking DNS slow, not DNS down.
<bluefoxicy> yeah, but ping only looks up the address once
<ScottK> If pinging by IP is faster than by name, it's almost certainly a DNS problem.
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  are you under the belief that a single run of ping looks up the address in DNS before sending each packet?
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: I've never really looked into it.  It's been my experience that when that happened, it was DNS.
<bluefoxicy> hrm
<bluefoxicy> ScottK:  I concede.  That seems to be it.  ping is poorly designed too (somehow if I ping something with multiple A records, it continuously pings the same address, yet each run of ping gets a different address...)
<bluefoxicy> (try pinging irc.esper.net)
<ScottK> Crap DNS is never a bad guess with Comcast anyway.
<bluefoxicy> I'm using opendns
<ScottK> Ah.
<bluefoxicy> there'sstill the issue with my ipod.
 * Hobbsee wonders why bluefoxicy didnt upgrade *before* this, and so then fix all of his problems while the archives were still open
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  I wasn't on 64-bit >.> and didn't honestly notice ipod totally doesn't work.
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  this is lol!
 * Hobbsee suspects other people's ipods probably work
<RAOF> bluefoxicy: Is it a crazy new ipod?
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  60G iPod VIdeo
 * bluefoxicy plugs in other usb drives with strange effects.
<RAOF> Hm.  Probably new enough to have the new improved encrypted database then?
<bluefoxicy> I plugged one in and then it suddenly recognized my ipod and the other drive
<bluefoxicy> now it recognizes neither...
<bluefoxicy> RAOF:  no, it's not recognizing it as a usb mass storage drive at all, mostly.
<bluefoxicy> it has once, about 1 minute ago
<RAOF> Ah, right.  Crazieness.
<bluefoxicy> anyway enough of that
<bluefoxicy> I'm on 64 bit specifically to test it out, re Gnash now actually works (somewhat)
<bluefoxicy> [ 1963.577045] usb 2-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 21
<bluefoxicy> [ 1968.681203] usb 2-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
<bluefoxicy> There we go.  After several minutes this turns into an attached iPod.
<bluefoxicy> this is nowhere near enough information ;_;
<Da_Clover> LongPointyStick awesome user :]
<Da_Clover> hello Lure
<Lure> hi Da_Clover
<Da_Clover> Been a while since LaserJock_ payed a visit to motu
<Da_Clover> good evening imbrandon
<imbrandon> hello Da_Clover
 * jdong whips out bzr and begins doing a crackpot 3-way merge between his azureus 2.5.0.4 packaging and 3.0.3.4 upstream :D
<imbrandon> i thought azureus 3 was teh devil
<jdong> imbrandon: the Linux version seems sane still....
<RAOF> jdong: Woooo!  You'll prevent me from feeling guilty about not touching that pile of madness?
<jdong> RAOF: hey, I already fixed azureus gutsy packages this afternoon, and I *NEVER* quit while I'm ahead!
<jdong>  2836 files changed, 620438 insertions(+), 567426 deletions(-)
<jdong> wh... what a beautiful diff.
<StevenK> And when jdong feels the packaging of Azureus isn't crackful enough, he'll borrow crack from his own stock
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
 * StevenK waves
 * RAOF shores
<jdong> [jdong@jdong:azureus/azureus-ubuntu]$ bzr merge ../azureus-3.0.3.4/
<jdong> can it be that simple?
<imbrandon> hrm Flash 9 for Solaris sparc and x86 , very cool, if only they would do a ppc linux build
<superm1> my god jdong
<superm1> jdong, you and RAOF and your crack :)
<jdong> ooh, only two conflicts
<RAOF> jdong: Surely you're only merging the debian directory?  Or what?  Do they ship a debian/?
<jdong> RAOF: both Debian maintainer and I have modified a few files in debian/../, so I'm doing a bzr merge by importing 2.5.0.4, branching into 2.5.0.4-ubuntu and 3.0.3.4, then going into 2.5.0.4-ubuntu and merging from 3.0.3.4
 * RAOF thought our azureus package wasn't actually based upon the Debian package at all.  Maybe this has changed.
<jdong> RAOF: no you are correct, it wasn't, that was a change within the past 8 hours :)
<jdong> RAOF: Ubuntu's package is down a hopeless road, I am rebasing off Debian and pulling patches from Mandriva
<RAOF> Fair enough.  Is debian still doing crazy, crazy things?
<RAOF> I seem to recall the maintainer decided that azureus was too cool to use the eclipse gtk bindings, so shipped his own build of them.  Or something like that.
<jdong> RAOF: not anymore. New debian packaging is extremely sane
<jdong> RAOF: (and before that was a legit problem, eclipse SWT that eclipse needs to build has slightly different API than the SWT that Azureus prefers)
<RAOF> (1) Cool, and (2) Eh, I don't care.  It still made the packaging wierd and crazy.
<RAOF> :)
<jdong> RAOF: agreed; packaging is much less weird and crazy now... in fact, it's beautifully clean
<RAOF> Yay.
<RAOF> Thinking of crack, I'm going to need a hardy schroot.  Is it debootstrapable yet?  When do the archives open?
<imbrandon> archives are there but they wont open for uploads untill the toolchain settles
<StevenK> The archives will open when the toolchain is completly built and published.
<imbrandon> i always wondered why they dont start that like one week before release
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Maybe because there are more important things to do, like put a release out?
<imbrandon> seems like both could be accomplished parallel
<imbrandon> ];)
<TheMuso> If you want to take someone from bugfixing/testing, sure.
<StevenK> And make sure the release team have to worry about accepting stuff for two releases.
<TheMuso> As it is, I'm pretty sure planning starts before the final release. I certainly know this happens for the kernel.
<TheMuso> And I'd bet they're waiting on getting a new kernel in to bootstrap with.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Indeed.
<imbrandon> brb
<jdong> urgh slight hackjob necessary
<jdong> $ bzr branch azureus-ubuntu azureus-gutsy-i-gotta-have-crack
<jdong> I have gone on a captain ahab type quest to get azureus 3 to build with swt 3.2
<jdong> someone please stop me before I hurt myself
<imbrandon> just have azureus be a meta-package for uTorent and wine
<imbrandon> thats crack
<jdong> lol
<lauchazombie> oh all mighty motu's any of you would be kind enough and recommend me a c programming book?
<pwnguin> nope
<pwnguin> they're all terrible
<jdong> bluefoxicy: I'm gonna push bzr branches of some azureus work to LP/~motu-torrent/azureus... the 2.5.0.4 branch, upstream sources, and also gonna push some fun experimental packaging of 3.0.3.4
<jdong> err bluekuja rather
<jdong> bluekuja: In order for 3.0.3.4 to actually work, we need to have SWT 3.3 which is in neither Debian nor Ubuntu... so I'm gonna hold off on that until the dust settles.
 * pwnguin dies
<pwnguin> people fixing Azureus?
<jdong> pwnguin: Azureus is fixed :) and yeah I in my infinitely bad judgement stepped up to the plate :)
<lauchazombie> pwnguin, =(
<lauchazombie> yeah azureus is fixed, im using it right know thanks to the all might motu jdong
<freakabcd> would anyone be able to package a newer version of octave-forge ?
<freakabcd> the current version is the exact same one in feisty and it was old in feisty itself!
 * TheMuso gets the meeting minutes out of the way for another three weeks or so.
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
<TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso, Fujitsu!
<tonyyarusso> Is pitti, cjwatson, or anyone else who knows about the encryption-related options in the Gutsy installer around?
<soren> tonyyarusso: What's up?
<tonyyarusso> soren: I can't figure out how to use encryption in the manual option.
<tonyyarusso> soren: I was able to designate the logical volume as "use as physical volume for encryption", but couldn't find what step I could designate that this volume should then be my /home.
<tonyyarusso> (I want to encrypt /home and swap only)
<soren> tonyyarusso: Ah.
<soren> tonyyarusso: You create the partition, designate it as "use for encryption blah", and back in the menu where you see the different partitions, you'll see a new heading.
<soren> Under that heading, there should be an entry you can now format and mount as /home.
<tonyyarusso> soren: oh, a heading as in "Write partitions and set up LVM", that area?
<soren> No.
<soren> Further down.
<soren> Hang on, I'll fire up the installer and guide you through it.
<tonyyarusso> sweet, thanks
<soren> Oh, you're right. At the very top, there's now a "configure encrypted volumes"
<tonyyarusso> aah, ok
 * tonyyarusso didn't look there apparently
<soren> tonyyarusso: Choose that, type your passphrase, and you'll be back at that same menu again.
<tonyyarusso> I was expecting it to be under the partition, like where filesystem stuff is setup
<tonyyarusso> (but then I can be blind)
<soren> ...Only this time you'll see a new "Encrypted volume (sda5_crypt) - blah"
<soren> tonyyarusso: Right, that shows up after configuring the dm-crypt magic.
<tonyyarusso> soren: My goal is to protect my documents, e-mails, and IM logs pretty much - do you know if any of that resides outside of /home?  (/tmp, /var)
<soren> tonyyarusso: It all ought to be in /home.
<tonyyarusso> soren: nifty
<tonyyarusso> All right, here goes attempt #2.  biab
 * TheMuso has an encrypted LVM partition with root, swap, and home on it for his notebook.
<RAOF> Hm.  I've learnt two interesting things today:  (1) Opening 100 gnome-terminals will increase Compiz's shared-memory size by approximately 200Mb, and (2) X will crash before I can open 200 gnome terminals
<_nand_> hi!
<_nand_> I have a packaging question :)
<_nand_> i'm building two packages from one source file
<_nand_> one of them contains a daemon and some libs
<_nand_> the other contains GUI clients
<_nand_> my current pb is : ${shlibs:Depends} on the second package make a depend to the first package, but without a version number
<_nand_> and if i put manually the depend with the version number (=${binary:Version}), well i get a duplicate :)
<_nand_> someone got an idea on this?
 * RAOF is not actually sure.
<_nand_> W: ikevpn-manager: package-has-a-duplicate-relation depends: ikevpn, ikevpn (= 2.0.2-1), precisely
<RAOF> Does it need such a hard dependency versioning (=binary-version)?
<_nand_> For the major versions, the API will change
<RAOF> My understanding is that the library's shlibs file should handle this.
<RAOF> Also, for major versions, you'll have a different library name (libfoo2, libfoo3, etc
<_nand_> afaik there might be some api change in some minor versions too (/me thinks of Qt...)
<RAOF> As long as it doesn't break ABI, that's OK (I think.  Library packaging isn't my thing)
<_nand_> ok. I check with the shlibs files... thanks!
<RAOF> Debian library packaging guide may help: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<_nand_> the kind of document i love to read before getting to sleep :)
<RAOF> :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Do we have a factoid for that?
<RAOF> On the lib packaging guide?  Dunno.
<RAOF> Might be a good idea, though :)
<dholbach> StevenK: could you get your script from MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles into ubuntu-dev-tools for hardy?
<dholbach> StevenK: that way I'd have an easier time to merge the page into the packagingguide
<huats> morning all
<huats> and happy day after the day after the day after the release day  :-)
<xstasi> same to you :)
<dholbach> hey huats :)
<huats> hey dholbach
<Hobbsee> hiya dholbach, huats, xstasi
<huats> hey Hobbsee
<huats> I am wondering what is the right way to fix bug 154472
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
<dholbach> hiya Hobbsee
<xstasi> hey Hobbsee :)
<huats> to fix it, I have to edit a file that is already patch using dpatch in the package...
<RAOF> Yay dpatch!
<RAOF> huats: Learn to love dpatch-edit-patch :)
<huats> RAOF: :-)
<huats> RAOF dpatch is not really the pb
<huats> the pb is more : can I apply 2 patchs to the same file ?
<huats> RAOF: and I am sure I will love dpatch
<huats> :-)
<RAOF> Yes.  But what you actually want to do is to edit the existing patch, using dpatch-edit-patch :)
<huats> RAOF:  ok
<huats> RAOF: I'll give it a shot..
<huats> RAOF: thanks
<huats> doko: are you around ?
<RAOF> huats: NP
<geser> morning
<dholbach> heya geser
<freeflying> 5/quit
<geser> Hi dholbach
<tonyyarusso> soren: Still around?  I seem to be running into some bugs.
<soren> tonyyarusso: Sure.
<tonyyarusso> soren: Okay, #1: After configuring encrypted volumes, and going to choose the filesystem/mount point for them, there is no option for "format it" or "keep existing data", as there is for normal volumes.  It seems to give you no choice and force writing a filesystem to it regardless.
<soren> tonyyarusso: Right.
<soren> tonyyarusso: That strikes you as odd?
<tonyyarusso> soren: Yes, because I like to share a common /home between two installations (stable and development), and this means that I would be unable to for instance test an Alpha install CD without wiping out my documents, rather than simply being able to add the existing partition to mount.
<soren> tonyyarusso: Hm.
<soren> tonyyarusso: You're going to have to do that manually.
<soren> AFAIK, there's no way to make the installer recognise an existing dm-crypted volume.
<Fujitsu> Hmm... Why not?
<tonyyarusso> All right, adding it to my 8.04 wishlist.
<soren> Fujitsu: Er... I'm not sure how to answer that question.
<soren> Fujitsu: Because noone has bothered to implement it?
<Fujitsu> So it's just that, rather than somebody deciding that it would be a bad idea?
<tonyyarusso> soren: #2: When booting the system, the prompt for the passphrase for swap_crypt works fine.  However, when it gets to the point of trying to mount home_crypt, usplash breaks and it falls to the text-mode, with a prompt for "Enter LUKS passphrase" (which doesn't even mention which volume it's for, ie home_crypt - good thing I only have one to guess from)
<soren> Fujitsu: I imagine so.
<soren> tonyyarusso: File a bug about it.
 * tonyyarusso nods
<soren> tonyyarusso: Against cryptsetup.
 * sladen was about to paste that into a bug report so it didn't get lost.  But it would be far preferable if tonyyarusso did it first hand :)
<tonyyarusso> soren: #3 - worst of the list: #2 is the behavior after installing one system.  However, after going through the installation a second time, for the base which will become my unstable one, I seem to have broken that bit too, and now it drops to just a blinking cursor and I can't proceed past that in the boot.  No info on other consoles either.
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am having problems with the PPA server it is Accepting my source files (I get an Email) but its not making the DEBS, I am only getting 1 mail informing me that the package was accepted, my PPA is at http://ppa.launchpad.net/stevenharperuk/ubuntu/pool/main/e/easycrypt/  can anyone check to see why its stopped making DEBS? thanks
<tonyyarusso> soren: when you said to file it against cryptsetup, did you mean wrt #1 or #2?   (or both)
<soren> tonyyarusso: #2 only. #1 is an installer thing.
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: This is more appropriate for #launchpad, but I'll have a look now.
<soren> StevenHarperUK: It's pending. https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+build/412772
<geser> StevenHarperUK: it's somewhere in the build-queue (Pending (1005))
<Fujitsu> THe buildd queuer seems to be broken.
<StevenHarperUK> The one I submitted last night 1.6-2 hasnt been done yet, that was Hours ago? is it broken?
<soren> tonyyarusso: I'm a bit stumped at #3. How far in the boot process does it get?
<StevenHarperUK> Also can you tell me how you found that handy URL you just gave me?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: It is broken, yes.
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive
<StevenHarperUK> Is there any Errors? Is it a probmlem with my codre
<Fujitsu> It should all be linked from there.
<StevenHarperUK> *code
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: No, the Launchpad PPA build sequencer seems to have broken itself.
<Fujitsu> I've asked to see if somebody can fix it.
<StevenHarperUK> Right, it does appear that the Changes file is Missing (according to that page) is that me missing it or is it just Symptoms of the breakage?
<Fujitsu> The builds shouldn't remain in Pending for more than a few minutes.
<StevenHarperUK> Ah Right, thanks a lot for looking at it for me, I'll keep my eye on it: do you know if I will need to resumbit or up the version number and resubmit?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: No, the existing builds will start automagically once an admin fixes it.
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks Again
<geser> samarium is currently building packages queue 14 h ago
<geser> samarium == the i386 ppa buildd
<BugMaN> hi all
<StevenHarperUK> Hi Again, Fujitsu, I can confirm that the PPA has done my Pacakage now, thanks for getting it sorted
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: It was actually already sorted before I mentioned it, but everything was still catching up.
<StevenHarperUK> Ta Anyway!
<Hobbsee> NOTE TO ALL UBUNTU MOTU PEOPLE:  don't poach my merges.  if you wish to do a particular one, ask me first.  thankyou.  Punishment will be of the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢ variety.
<minghua> Hobbsee: That's a strange use of "poach"...
<Nafallo> NOTE TO *: Gajim is not to be merged. Hobbsee will do the punishment for me as a contractor-basis ;-).
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: hahaha :)
<Hobbsee> minghua: where poach
<Hobbsee> is brutally taking, or something.  it's probably not that far off :
<danboid> Hi!
<danboid> I've tried submitting a bug/ package request to launchpad but all I get is 'There has been 1 error' but it doesn't say what!
<Hobbsee> debian bug 407262
<ubotu> Debian bug 407262 in pwsafe "pwsafe: 0.2.0-2+b1 removed X11 clipboard support" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/407262
<Hobbsee> hiya
<minghua> Hobbsee: dictionary.cambridge.org says it mainly means taking animals on someone else's land.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Right, and this is taking merges on someone else's land.
<Hobbsee> minghua: well, if merges can be regarded as an animal...
<minghua> Hobbsee: Good analogy, but still strange. :-)
<Fujitsu> I've seen it used in such a situation on many occasions.
<minghua> I don't usually regard my packages as pets, after all.
<danboid> why can't I submit a bug/ package request on launchpad anyone?
 * Fujitsu feeds his packages.
<Hobbsee>  libx11-dev and libxmu-dev
<minghua> Fujitsu: with what? :-D
<Hobbsee> excellent
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Good question.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i can sync that :)
<danboid> hello?
<danboid> can anyone read this apart from me?
<Hobbsee> danboid: we probably cant help you, we're not psychic.  you probably need to ask on #launchpad, and describe a bit more what's happening.
<Hobbsee> like, where the 1 error is
<danboid> Hobbsee: Aha! I didn't know there was #launchpad too- thanks!
<Hobbsee> right.  done pwsafe.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Merging already?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's open, but i dont think it's wise to do much - most of the archive hasnt synced yet
<Hobbsee> hence, i'm just putting in a couple of sync requests
<Fujitsu> It's not open.
<Hobbsee> yeah, but i can do bits knowing that everything will sync :)
<Fujitsu> It's still doko-land.
<Hobbsee> and at least now i know how much i have listed against me to do :)
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Hobbsee> #kubuntu-devel says merge away, actually
 * Fujitsu trusts #ubuntu-devel more.
<Hobbsee> which doesnt mention merging :)
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Hobbsee> geser: scons is your problem.  i was just the uploader :)
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<Fujitsu> Hey ScottK.
<ScottK> Hello Fujitsu.
<minghua> Morning ScottK.
<ScottK> Hello minghua
<proppy> hi
<ScottK> dholbach: I'm reading my wiki mail and I noticed that you changed MOTU FAQ to point at the packaging guide discussion of patching (instead of MOTU school) and the in the Debian Python Modules Team page you added a link to the MOTU school patching page (the topic is a good one to add, thank BTW).  Just thought I'd point out the difference as I wasn't sure it was intentional.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Since you're still "Touched it last" on Azureus, I'm curious your thoughts on jdong's plan to sync merge from Debian and SRU the new version to Gutsy?
<StevenK> ScottK: jdong has been dealing with Azureus
<StevenK> Oh, never mind me, I can't read.
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.  I mentioned that above "jdong's plan to ...".  I'm curious of Fujitsu has an opinion beyond joy and rapture to get it off of him.
<ScottK> No trouble.
<proppy> ScottK: 155487 has been taken care off ?
<proppy> ScottK: bug #155487
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
<ScottK> someone is working on it.
<proppy> ScottK: ok :)
<ScottK> proppy: Do you want a merge to do?
<proppy> I'm always up to learn something I don't know if someone is up to help me
<proppy> ScottK:
<ScottK> proppy: If you want to take a shot at mering openct, feel free.  I'll be around and can provide some help, but I've a bunch of other stuff I need to get done today, so it can't be extensive.
 * Hobbsee has a sudden, very unpleasant thought.
 * persia becomes curious
 * ScottK tip-toes quietly to the other side of the room.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, no, you can stay around now.  :P
<ScottK> Well it pays to be careful.  Be close by when you have ideas can be hazardous.
<ScottK> Be/Being
 * Fujitsu returns.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: two phrases: 1) lots of merges to be done.  2)  Kmos.
<persia> ScottK: Sparks of inspiration lighting you on fire?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: He can do anything he wants with it. Particularly taking it off my list.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *g*
<persia> Hobbsee: rejections?
<Fujitsu> I will gladly kill it.
<Hobbsee> persia: the thought of him trying to hijack a whole bunch of merges, doing the great majority of them incorrectly....
<persia> Hobbsee: No upload.  No worries.
<Hobbsee> persia: some...uh...people may well sponsor him.
<Hobbsee> and the queue will probably explode again
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Fortunately he at least can't upload.  He has committ access to at least 3 Debian svn repos now.  One of which he's spread havoc throughout.
<Fujitsu> Eek.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, i saw that mail.  although, we'll have to be careful what we import from debian.
<ScottK> Fortunately (AFAIK) none of it was uploaded.
<persia> The queue is easy to fix, but if there are sponsors, that's a different issue.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: how the heck did he get commit access, anyway?
<ScottK> I put the others on notice.
<Hobbsee> persia: true.  mass mark of wontfix.
<ScottK> Most of the Debian teams are pretty open.
<Hobbsee> i presume dholbach has a plan
<persia> ScottK: Some of it may have been uploaded.  I don't think the investigations are complete.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ahhh.  that's true, come to think of it
<ScottK> persia: Urgh.
<Fujitsu> persia: Do people not check diffs?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think he meant from the Debian Games svn havoc.
<persia> Fujitsu: Not really.  Debian SVN -> package seems more to be a sanity check + the last person's cool thing, rather than a real diff review, but I suspect it depends on the sponsor.
<Fujitsu> persia: Eww.
<Fujitsu> That sounds really wrong.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's generally a good thing, as most members of the team are very concientious.
<Fujitsu> Particularly if they're open enough to let him in..
<Hobbsee> oh well, if he tries, there's going to be lots of blood.
<ScottK> In the Debian Python teams it's a pretty thorough review.
<persia> Yeah.  Well.  Reviews are getting tighter.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sharpening the stick?
<Hobbsee> if dholbach does nothing about it again, and jono says it's not a problem, and we're overreacting again, then...
<persia> Hobbsee: That would only happen by accident.  Don't follow the path...
<ScottK> persia: You've no idea how many times it's already happened.
<persia> ScottK: No?
 * Hobbsee wonders just how many people would consider walking off the project, if the highups refused to do anything about a repeating issue that doesnt just go away when they bury their heads in the sand.
<persia> (Still, that way madness lies)
<ScottK> No.  One of my lesson's learned is that I should have complained sooner, louder, and more publically.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the stick and the mace.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I already have (that's one of my major reasons for ramping down my Ubuntu work now the Gutsy is out).
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Even better!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: feel free to sharpen your own weapons.
<persia> So, just out of curiosity, why are we advertising merges when the archive isn't accepting anything yet?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hey! That's *my* mace.
<ScottK> persia: No reason they can't be prepared now.
<Fujitsu> And isn't DaD deprecated?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Why would it be?
<Hobbsee> persia: i think so people can get an idea of them, to know how much work it's going to take to do them
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Just thinking about over-excitable sorts...
<zul> Fujitsu: ergh?
<Hobbsee> a whole lot of stuff hasnt synced yet, so i'm presuming stuff will need to rebuild.
<ScottK> persia: Worst case it sits in unaccepted.  No big problem.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the plan was that they had a common UI.  however, i doubt that happened.
<Fujitsu> I'm suure there was a decision a while ago that the DaD developers would talk to Keybuk about merging its functionality with MoM, and DaD would be discontinued.
 * zul thinks people just have to be patient for hardy
<lamont> Hobbsee: if it has 'ubuntu' in the version, then it won't sync... :-)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes, but not yet implemented.
<persia> Fujitsu: My memory is that Dad was supposed to update to interface cleanly, and that's still pending.  I don't remember official Deprecation.  Feel free to add it to the agenda for 11/9.
<Hobbsee> lamont: well, obviously.
 * Fujitsu searches out old (TB?) logs.
<lamont> Hobbsee: that's me: captain obvious
<persia> TB?  I don't remember it getting beyond MOTU Meeting level
<ScottK> Fujitsu: IMO when the MoM interface is updated, then (and it was MOTU meeting, I'm pretty sure).
<Hobbsee> lamont: well, you can be the person who goes and does the killing.  thankyou.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It was, yes.
<lamont> hrm... captain does imply military, doesn't it.
<Hobbsee> lamont: it does.  and you're it :)
<lamont> but I never served in the military...
<ScottK> lamont: Not always http://tinyurl.com/2qqleo
<StevenK> *SHIVER*
 * lamont considers bitchslapping ScottK 
<StevenK> lamont: I'll help
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's right, yeah.
<persia> ScottK: That's an inappropriate use of the word "Captain"
<ScottK> Well my kids loved those books when they were younger.  One of them read one to a woman who was very scared about donating blood and really helped here get through the experience on 9/11.
<lamont> cool
<zul> Hobbsee: can we call you captain my captain
<Hobbsee> zul: no.  :P
<ScottK> here/her anyway...
<zul> Hobbsee: awwwww...im going to anyways ;)
<StevenK> It's "Oh Captain, my captain" anyway
<ScottK> Hobbsee: In general, I think it would be benificial to look at why experienced MOTUs are contributing less and see what could be done to attract them back (not just Kmos).
<Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.  i wonder how far jono got with doing that
 * persia thinks raising the MOTU bar, and providing more support for contributors helps filter those not truly committed
<ScottK> Dunno.  I've mentioned it to dholbach a few times and he seemed very focused on recruitment.
<Hobbsee> oh you're fscking kidding me....
 * Hobbsee looks at this bug
<persia> 155788?
<Fujitsu> bug #155788
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155788 in kdebase "KDE blocks digital camera detection as usb-scsi disk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155788
<Hobbsee> no, 7
<Fujitsu> bug #155787
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155787 in audacious-plugins "package audacious-plugins None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/audacious-plugins.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/audacious/General/libcurl.so', which is also in package audacious-plugins-extra" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155787
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Despite our valiant last-minute efforts, the final release version still doesn't work right.
<Fujitsu> Why is the version None!?
<Hobbsee> persia: why the frick cant people do some *basic* testing?
<Hobbsee> there's even a pbuilder hook for it!
<Fujitsu> Somebody modified tha tpackage manually, didn't they?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont think so, i think it shipped broken
<Hobbsee> oh hang on, this guy's aptcache is way out of date.
<persia> Hobbsee: Umm...  That fix was tested by three different people, with results reported here.  It seems like there are additional circumstances that must be met: specifically that everything works fine with dpkg, but breaks with aptitude, etc.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But look at the version string - it seems to be saying it doesn't match the one that should be installed, it has been modified since it was half-installed.
<Hobbsee> Preparing to replace audacious-plugins 1.3.5-3ubuntu2 (using .../audacious-plugins_1.3.5-3ubuntu3_i386.deb) ...
<persia> Fujitsu: Does the brokenness only happen for people who caught the broken upload (and the newer, fixed, upload doesn't clean up once the broken one is installed)?
<Hobbsee> persia: it only happens with an aptcache a week or so out of date, i think.
<persia> err.. half-installed
<Hobbsee> we're at 4.1 now
<Fujitsu> persia: I have no idea. But I've not seen a version string like that from apport before, so...
<Hobbsee> this is 2 --> 3, which had no conflicts at all
<minghua> !info audacious-plugins
<ubotu> audacious-plugins: Base plugins for audacious. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.5-3ubuntu4 (gutsy), package size 706 kB, installed size 1368 kB
<minghua> I assume -3ubuntu4 fixed that?
<Hobbsee> minghua: 4.1 eventually did.
<persia> I thought 2 -> 3 was to fix one install conflict, and 3 -> to fix the conflict fix.
<Hobbsee> even 4 didnt fix it.
<minghua> Hobbsee: Oh.  Where is it now?
 * persia still doesn't see 4.1
<Hobbsee> persia: it's in -proposed
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/
<Fujitsu> So we released it broken.
 * persia thinks -proposed != released in any way
<Fujitsu>  audacious-plugins (1.3.5-3ubuntu4.1) gutsy-proposed; urgency=low
<Fujitsu>  .
<Fujitsu>    * Fixed the Conflicts/Replaces to *really* unbreak the upgrade path (LP: #152918)
<fernando> moin all
<huats> morning fernando
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, but it's getting there.
<ScottK> Yeah.  One attempt to fix it got uploaded at the bitter end, but apparently was wrong.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  The release was broken
<persia> I think it was the 2nd to last universe upload (the last being icedtea)
<ScottK> Sounds right.
<Fujitsu> It was the 2nd last universe upload, the last being ubuntustudio-look with the same issue. A kdelibs upload came after that, then everything else looks to be -proposed.
<ScottK> So does it have the requisite two thumbs up from testers?
<ScottK> If it does, maybe pitti would waive the aging requirement.
<persia> Which bug?  I'll test it now if it needs it.
<ScottK> persia: I'd guess 152918
<Fujitsu> That's the one.
<Fujitsu> Two testers already, I think
<persia> Yep.  Two testers.  It just needs a push.
<Fujitsu> It hasn't been a week yet.
 * persia hopes audacious-plugins-extra isn't widely installed
<ScottK> Hobbsee: What do you think about asking pitti to waive the aging requirement for this issue?
<proppy> norsetto: testing bug #64032
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i thought we only needed one or the other?
<ScottK> Generally both.
<norsetto> proppy: btw, you can take over upstream if you are interested
<persia> How out of date is popcon.ubuntu.com?  It doesn't even list the package.
<proppy> norsetto: I don't really know rpm stuff, I'm only interested in this bug because you are :)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I was starting to look at python-scipy last week and I think there's at least one Ubuntu patch that's not fully incorporated.
 * ScottK looks to see which.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Hm, possibly one of the FTBFS mass?
<huats> norsetto: hey
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Trying to find/decipher my notes.  I got interrupted in the middle of my review and didn't get back to it.
<Fujitsu> AFAIK everything else is just direct upstream backports, so is there. If it builds, it should be fine.
<Fujitsu> Ah, fun.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<proppy> norsetto: bug commented
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think it was umfpack.dpatch, but it looks like I didn't actually write it down.  It was partially, implemented.  IIRC.
 * ScottK looks more
<proppy> ScottK: http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh wiki page for usage ?
<ScottK> You can use that one.  There's also one on merges.ubuntu.com.
 * persia wonders if the known bugs in DaD were fixed, or if this is the same codebase in place for gutsy merge season
<norsetto> hi huats
<StevenK> They are different scripts, too
<proppy> ok
<proppy> grab-merge.sh packagename ?
<norsetto> proppy: thx, a "works for me" would be good too :-)
<proppy> oups :)
<proppy> norsetto: done
<norsetto> proppy: mercÃ­
<proppy> ScottK: there seems to be no conflict in opencl merge, so next step is to follow the procedure or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing ?
<proppy> ScottK: I also noticed that there is no bug report for requesting the merge
<ScottK> proppy: The bug report is normally only done to get the merge diff to a sponsor.  You need to look at merges.ubuntu.com of DaD (in /topic) to see what needs merging.
 * persia believes it is good practice to open a merge bug in order to indicate to others that the package is already being handled
<ScottK> proppy: I'll have a look in a bit and see if I agree.  IIRC that's likely correct.
<ScottK> persia: As a MOTU, I'm not going to write a bug everytime I work on a merge.  If I touched it last, someone should check and see if I'm doing it.
<persia> ScottK: Why not?  I do.  It only takes a minute.
<ScottK> It's extra work with no point.
<Fujitsu> That hasn't been done since Dapper, has it?
<ScottK> It's more pointless bugs in the database.
<Fujitsu> I like to minimise such not-really-bug cruft.
 * ScottK too
<persia> Fujitsu: It was done for Edgy & Feisty.  During Gutsy there was a discussion about "Maintainers", and it was done about 40%.
 * ScottK isn't going to do it.  If someone duplicates work, I'm not going to worry about it.
 * Fujitsu hasn't ever done it...
<persia> I don't like tracking people down (as they tend to be asleep when I want them)
<Fujitsu> (except for the short time the new sponsorship process was in place)
<persia> ScottK: That's fine.  Don't complain if someone else merges something.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: heh, that's why i'm hitting the ones i care about in universe now
<proppy> ScottK: /openct_0.6.14-2ubuntu1.patch contains only debian/changelog diff
<proppy> ScottK: so I guess it's a sync ?
<ScottK> persia: I already have complained.  I think people should check before merging if they haven't been involved in the package.
 * Fujitsu heads to bed.
<persia> ScottK: I don't think we'll agree on this, but I also don't think it's worth either of our time arguing about it for the third release in a row :)
<ScottK> persia: Note that process cruft was on my list of reasons to be less involved in Ubuntu.  This would be on my list.
 * persia notes that the process was introduced in Dapper
 * ScottK notes that when I was learning how to be a MOTU during Feisty no one ever told him it was required.
 * ScottK got a lot of schooling about checking with the last uploader.
 * ScottK does comment on DaD which merges he plans to do, so people can look there.
<persia> I didn't agree with it then either.  People kept not getting in touch with me during Feisty, and uploaded broken versions of the packages I cared about.  I subscribe to the bugs for those packages, and would have seen a bug report.
 * persia agrees that DaD commenting is also good practice
 * ScottK thinks it's plenty.  A bug report is overkill.
 * Hobbsee just expects people will leave her bugs alone for a while...like a few weeks.
<proppy> ScottK: persia I don't see any comment on DAD
<Hobbsee> unless they commit the applicable changes to debian kde, in which case, that's fine by me.
<Hobbsee> or if they ask.
<ScottK> proppy: Exactly.  I didn't plan on doing that one which is why I suggested it to you.
<persia> ScottK: I suspect we'll both get hit: me because most people aren't in my timezone, and so find getting in touch with me difficult, and you because you don't have bugs filed.  It's another one of those two-ways-to-do-it problems.  A new interface to MoM should be the real solution.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: (hoping you get the scrollback) - The umfpack patch from Debian definitely has less in it than ours.
<ScottK> persia: Agreed (MoM is the solution).
<stani> sorry, what is DaD and MoM?
<ScottK> They are two web sites for looking at needed merges from Debian.
<ScottK> MoM is at merges.ubuntu.com and the DaD url is in /topic.
<persia> stani: They are two tools that compare the current development Ubuntu versions and the current development Debian versions, and list packages where there has been a Debian upload since the last Ubuntu sync or merge.  These help guide manual integration work at the start of a development cycle.
<persia> (MoM is still pointing at Gutsy, so only of limited utility (of course with the archive closed, it really doesn't matter))
<stani> thanks persia and scottk
<Hobbsee> it makes me sad that the people who can implement this stuff are too busy to do so, and the ones who want to change it don't have access.
<Hobbsee> oh well.
<proppy> ScottK: sorry but I'm not sure what to do next ...
<ScottK> proppy: Give me a few minutes to have a chance to look at it.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life
<proppy> ScottK: I'll read the wiki page
<dholbach> ScottK: laserjock took the motu school session and made 'documentation' material out of it -  I hope I transferred all other information bits to the new page - will re-check
<ScottK> proppy: I think you are on the right track, I just want to check.
<persia> norsetto: What's the bright side of the dysfunctional parents of merging?
<ScottK> dholbach: It looks like it's mostly there, but I thought it odd you added the MOTU School like to the Debian Python Modules Team wikipage.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: those who said that were then shortly crucified afterwards...
<ScottK> persia: Plenty of stuff to talk about.
<sourcercito> hi there, i have a question, i don't know if this is the correct place to ask it, but anyway here it goes, why does the -dev packages provide the .so libs and those links are not provided by the library packages, does this should be like this?
<dholbach> ScottK: the other way around, I removed it from there, no?
 * ScottK looks again.
<dholbach> ScottK: I replaced the motu school patching session link with the packagingguide patching one
<ScottK> dholbach: Sure.  I read the diff wrong.  Nevermind.
<ScottK> Sorry about that.
<dholbach> ScottK: no problem - thanks for checking
<norsetto> Hobbsee: last I checked some of them were still around
<dholbach> ScottK: I've added prodding our old MOTUs on my list
<persia> sourcercito: While there are some libfoo packages that do provide .so links, the majority haqve no need, as the executing binaries seek a specific version of the library.  If anything is to be compiled locally, it is assumed that the -dev packages are available to ensure the right symbols are exported to the application.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: but indeed we lost some on the way ......
<ScottK> dholbach: Good.  Finding out why they are less active it important, IMO.
<dholbach> yeah, definitely
 * persia thanks dholbach for the list, and the short cycle time thereof
<dholbach> persia: which list? sorry
<persia> dholbach: The list to which you add things that then get done
<dholbach> ah, thanks, it's getting longer though :)
<proppy> persia: I need one !
<dholbach> I'm not getting bored
<sourcercito> persia, thanks, i was looking at a bug report, and don't have idea why the links wasn't provided by the package :-D, it seems fairly reasonable
<proppy> dholbach: please tell me where you get it :)
<norsetto> dholbach: I like the list of things which needs to be added to the list of things that has to be done
<persia> sourcercito: There are some exceptions.  If a library doesn't provide the right guidance to clients at build time, it may need to ship the .so links in the library package (not -dev).  This is sometimes done intentionally when upstream ABI is particularly stable, or when supporting plugins of various sorts.  In the context of a bug, you'll want to investigate in more detail.
<sourcercito> persia, sure i'll do it before take any further action in the report
<minghua> Why would someone change Fujitsu's merge bugs to importance:wishlist one by one...
<minghua> As if there isn't enough bug mail spam.
<persia> minghua: All merge bugs are "wishlist" (or at least that was the guidance I was given in the depths of time...)
<minghua> persia: I agree they are.  But is it really necessary to change it if it's filed as importance:unknown?
<persia> minghua: I don't think so, but someone in bugsquad might be seeking karma, or just trying to reduce the number of importance:unknown bugs.
<Hobbsee> minghua: were they all done by one person?
 * persia thinks bughelper makes it extra easy to autoseek "merge" bugs and set them all "wishlist"
<proppy> norsetto: my list of things that needs to be added to the list of tings that has been done is pretty empty,
<dholbach> persia:  bughelper is read-only
<persia> dholbach: I thought I saw Brian using it to feed a mail client for mass updates.
<norsetto> proppy: my list of things to be done is pretty empty
<dholbach> persia: yeah, you can let it generate lists for you
<dholbach> (or just use python-launchpad-bugs)
<proppy> norsetto: so let's play some GLSL together !
<persia> This was months and months ago.  python-launchpad-bugs is much better now :)
<dholbach> yeah, thanks to thekorn
 * norsetto fires a MAD at proppy (he, coding to the metal)
 * proppy blocks norsetto attack automagicaly cause he is in mode 13h
<persia> Ummm...   Is this a gaming channel?
<proppy> persia: -sorry- (gomenasai)
<persia> proppy: ii, yo
<proppy> persia: tsugoi ne
 * persia resolves to follow the language guidelines for the channel in the future
 * proppy turn off his OT chip
<minghua> Hobbsee: To be fair, I've only received three such mails, but yes, they are done by the same person, Basilio Kublik.
<norsetto> anyone here using claws-mail?
<ScottK> minghua: I got one too.  Because they are 'triaging' bugs and helping.  Merge bugs are supposed to be wishlist so ...
<Hobbsee> minghua: i'd suggest emailing them telling that it's just creating bugmail, and probably not worth doing, just to change the status.
 * ScottK nudges StevenK to add wishlist to requestync.
 * Hobbsee ponders an email filter to go by "if set to wishlist only, dont send me mail
<StevenK> ScottK: Hrm?
<minghua> Hobbsee: It's okay, triaging importance:undecided bugs is a worthy work.  I was just ranting.
 * minghua doesn't want to discourage bug triagers.
<Hobbsee> minghua: yeah, but merge bugs and sync bugs are a special case, and i think the docs should probably be changed to reflect that.
<ScottK> StevenK: It'd be nice if when requesync sent it's mail it would set it to wishlist so that random bugsquadders finding the undecidec bug wouldn't spam us when they 'fix' it.
<Hobbsee> i've previously told people to stay away from sync bugs, as they wanted to know what to do with them - that tehy're special
<Hobbsee> ScottK: uh, it does.  or should
<minghua> Hobbsee: If I get more of those from the same person, I'll send a mail.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It doesn't.
<StevenK> Yeah, I thought it should already.
<Hobbsee>  debhelper (5.0.57) unstable; urgency=low
<ScottK> StevenK: I'm pretty sure not.  Bug #155796 may not have been done with requestsync, but I think it was.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155796 in python-scipy "Please sync python-scipy 0.5.2-7  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155796
<Hobbsee>  .
<Hobbsee>    * Add --ignore option. This is intended to ease dealing with upstream
<Hobbsee>      tarballs that contain debian directories, by allowing debhelper config
<Hobbsee>      files in those directories to be ignored, since there's generally no
<Hobbsee>      good way to delete them out of the upstream tarball, and they can easily
<Hobbsee>      get in the way if upstream is using debian/ differently than the Debian
<Hobbsee>      maintainer.
<Hobbsee> oh, interesting.
 * persia likes --ignore.  Much becomes easier !
<minghua> Hobbsee: You may want to look at pristine-tar package, too, if you find that useful.
<persia> minghua: That doesn't help with keeping upstreams md5sums though
<Hobbsee> persia: your patch got accepted too
<minghua> persia: My impression is it does.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  BTS sent me a note.  Now everything can have dh_desktop, and I can prepare a patch to automatically install .desktop files found in debian/ :)
<minghua> persia: I didn't really try it though.
<Hobbsee> persia: yay!
<persia> minghua: It may.  I'm not sure how, as I haven't deeply investigated it.  My big interests in --ignore are 1) easier to get things into REVU cleanly, and 2) cleaning up when I really don't agree with a Debian maintainer.
<pkern> lucas: madduck removed him.
<pkern> lucas: I'm looking for \sh who only recently told me that Keybuk wanted to be removed from p.d.o anyway but nobody dared to do it.
<pkern> lucas: I don't even find Keybuk's official resignation to d-private.
<minghua> persia: Yeah, I admit --ignore and pristine-tar are only tangentially related.
<ScottK> proppy: Have you looked at the upstream code to see that the Ubuntu patch has been incorporated (openct)?
<Nightrose> pkern: have you heard anything from \sh? - I have not seen anything written by him since we met him and he did not answer my sms by now which I send on saturday evening
<proppy> ScottK: let me check this
<pkern> Nightrose: He didn't answer on IRC. Nothing.
<Nightrose> hmm
<ScottK> proppy: That's the real question you need answered.
<proppy> ScottK: I though that the remaining diff is a validation of that
<ScottK> proppy: To the extent the automatic merge tool got it right, it is, but you need to check.
<huats> gouki: ping ?
<pkern> Nightrose: I was also concerned, but I got distracted by the O-Phase.
<Nightrose> pkern: can you call him if he did not show up by tomorrow?
<Nightrose> I already send the sms and he did not respond
<pkern> WHOIS info for sourcecode.de looks outdated.
<Nightrose> hmm
<Nightrose> I have his RL address here if that is what you are looking for
<pkern> Hm. OTOH...
<pkern> Nightrose: Maybe he's on holiday?
<pkern> 16:23 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 1 week 2 days (17h 2m 20s) ago (\sh_away seen 2 days (21h 33m 22s) ago)
<Nightrose> pkern: possible but he didn't mention it did he?
<pkern> Nightrose: He mentioned that he has got three weeks off.
<pkern> Not that he goes away, that's right.
<Nightrose> hmm
<pkern> Nightrose: Sent two other pings (email and SMS)...
<Nightrose> k
<proppy> ScottK: yep changes are openct_usb.in ?
<proppy> ScottK: oops
<ScottK> ?
<proppy> ScottK: I confirm that changes are in openct_usb.in new version
<ScottK> proppy: Then a sync request is the correct next step in the process.  You need to say that in your sync request bug.
<proppy> ScottK: ok :)
<geser> Hobbsee: will you sponsor scons again when I'm done with merging or should I find another sponsor?
<Hobbsee> geser: i'll have a look, certainly
<Hobbsee> if you email me
<geser> sure
<pkern> Is hardy still frozen?
<Hobbsee> yes
<pkern> Hobbsee: Is there a plan about how long?
<Hobbsee> pkern: unsure
<Hobbsee> until the toolchain is done, i think
<pkern> Hah.  Though that one.  But ok, no estimations.
 * persia points at the Hardy Release Schedule for a draft and unofficial estimate
<pkern> My brain isn't working currently. \:
<proppy> ScottK: the sync is for hardy right ?
<ScottK> proppy: Yes.
<proppy> ScottK: bug #155839
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155839
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> proppy: Did you test build 0.6.14-2 in your Gutsy pbuilder (or equivalent)?
<proppy> ScottK: let me do that
<proppy> ScottK: (it means no)
<proppy> ScottK: why don't test in a hardy chroot ?
<geser> proppy: if you have a hardy pbuilder, you can use it instead
<proppy> geser: I miss the hardy debootstrap script
<persia> proppy: The main reason not to test against hardy now is that the toolchain isn't stable, so there is no strong guarantee that things working now will work when the archive opens (although there's also no guarantee with gutsy)
<proppy> ok
<proppy> hardy deboostrap script in gutsy-backport ?
<geser> proppy: please also add the new entries from debian/changlog to the sync request
<proppy> geser: done
<ScottK> proppy: Because a hardy chroot is pretty meaningless at this point and Gutsy is close enough.
<minghua> persia: I would think things working now in hardy should still work when hardy opens.
<persia> minghua: Maybe.  Who knows?  GCC might be broken, and might be fixed in 10 minutes (or be working, and be broken in 10 minutes).
<minghua> persia: Whether things that eventually will work when hardy opens works now or not, is another question. :-)
<minghua> persia: My point is, there shouldn't be (many) regressions in the toolchain.
<minghua> Bug will be fixed, but hopefully no new ones get introduced.
<minghua> Kernel is probably another situation.
<ScottK> But as things are still settling out in Hardy, there's no guarantee that things aren't completely broken at any given moment.
<persia> minghua: It depends on how one defines a regression.  Is the requirement for explicit headers between GCC 4.2 and GCC 4.3 a regression?  It caused a fair number of FTBFSs
<minghua> persia: But isn't the major version of the toolchains already uploaded?
<minghua> I mean, hardy has GCC 4.2 now, are we going to have 4.3 in the future?
<ScottK> minghua: Uploaded, but not necessarily stable or fully built.
<persia> minghua: I doubt it.  Just an example off the top of my head of what I consider to be a feature improvement in the toolchain breaking things.
<minghua> Anyway, these are quite useless speculations....
<minghua> persia: Yeah, I'm well aware of the example you brought up.  I just think there won't be such big feature changes down the road for hardy.
<ScottK> proppy: You might also want to look into the requestsync script in ubuntu-dev-tools for future reference.
<proppy> ScottK: build log posted on bug #155839
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155839
<persia> Do we need a build log?  I thought it was just changelogs, overview of reasons for sync, and confirmation of build
<proppy> persia: ScottK just asked me if I'd build it in a pbuilder / chroot
<Hobbsee> no
<proppy> persia: I'm the one who assumed that a build log assert this, but I may be wrong
<minghua> proppy: A comment "it builds in pbuilder" should suffice. :-)
<proppy> ok :)
<persia> proppy: You're entirely correct: it's just a higher burden or proof than is required.
<StevenK> I will provide a build log if anyone asks, but most people tend to trust me.
<proppy> Ok thanks :)
<proppy> persia:
<proppy> sorry for flying away but I've to take this japanse class
<proppy> see you tomorrow
<proppy> ScottK: thanks for the help
<Lutin> persia: the DaD codebase is the same as in gutsy, although iirc there's no known bug remaining (except the reliance on snapshots.debian.net)
<persia> Lutin: I thought there was still the issues with 1) recognising sync candidates, 2) handling certain classes of native packages, 3) recognising NMUs of native packages, etc.  All fairly minor.  Did all those get cleaned up?
 * persia still has a snapshot of the DaD codebase around, intending to look at some of those one day...
<Lutin> persia: those looks pretty much like feature requests rather than actual bugs ;)
<Lutin> but no, they've not been worked on
<persia> Lutin: My apologies.  I don't tend to differentiate the two :)  I remember a couple cases during gutsy where the DaD output was useless, but it is admittedly the minority of cases.
<persia> Did the vaguely defined plan to import the DaD interface on top of MoM ever go anywhere?
<Lutin> persia: not really AFAIK, although I'm not in charge of the interface-related stuff :p
<persia> Lutin: That's what I feared.  Alas.  Thanks :)
<Lutin> persia: btw, what did you mean exactly by 'handling certain classes of native packages" ?
<persia> Lutin: I'd have to check my records, but I thought that the version comparison system didn't work in some cases where native packages had Ubuntu variations.  It's been long enough I'll probably have to see it again (and given the progress with integration, remember to file bugs this time)
<Lutin> persia: ok
<SlimG> Is there any compiz-fusion 0.6.2 packages available for ubuntu?
<persia> SlimG: Not quite yet.  We're in a rest period between release and archive open, so updates to everything are mostly frozen.
<SlimG> persia: ah, I understand
<SlimG> But if someone know of a unofficial ubuntu-package for compiz-fusion 0.6.2, I'd apprechiate it
<Lamego> SlimG, does it comes on a single package, what are the main changes ?
<persia> SlimG: No guarantees it will integrate later :)
<Lamego> well, compiz*
 * pkern is pissed off by Gutsy's xserver-xorg.  Just again.
<pkern> And by ATI... fwiw.
<StevenK> pkern: Or "Still"
<SlimG> Lamego: It's the updated (0.6.2) version of the packages compiz-fusion-plugins-main (0.5.2) and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra (0.5.2)
<persia> norsetto: I've finally revised, clarified, and completed my proposal.  I haven't seen the minutes of the mentoring meeting in ubuntu-motu-mentors@l.u.c yet.  What's your plan?  (I don't really want to send my proposal prior to the minutes)
<pkern> StevenK: I take the CLI install to setup everything nicely BEFORE installing xorg.
<pkern> StevenK: Then I load fglrx-kernel-source, which pulls in some xorg crap with corrupts the display on postinst.
<pkern> *which
<Lamego> SlimG, ok, tks
<norsetto> pkern: well, let me know when I can upgrade my feisty xserver-xorg-ati
<StevenK> pkern: Neat.
<pkern> norsetto: Probably when the new, shiny fglrx is released and somehow pushed. ;)
<SlimG> Lamego: http://lists.compiz-fusion.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/000142.html
<pkern> I'm so pissed off.  I haven't installed the ssh server yet and the kernel compile is running.  Hopefully it's done when the HDD led doesn't blick anymore.
<norsetto> persia: I thought you wanted to send the MoM yourself?
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  We both bow, and nothing happens :)  Sure, I'll send it in a bit.  I'm happy with your last edit, unless you have anything else you want to add.
<SlimG> Lamego: I might have lied about the compiz-fusion version number, it's currently 0.6.0, not 0.6.2 (I'm confused by the main compiz version numbering)
<norsetto> persiapersia: no, I'm fine, sorry about that, I could have sent it two days ago already of course
 * persia goes to reformat and post, with a broad smile
<jdong> StevenK: I  was reading the scrollback... do you have an opinion on whether or not the Azureus situation can be approved for SRU?
<jdong> I am deciding between -backports and SRU currently
<StevenK> jdong: Not right now
<jdong> StevenK: ok. Do you think this situation is more of an archive admin or motu-uvf issue?
<StevenK> jdong: Um, no idea. Mainly because it's 2:30am local and my brain is fried
<jdong> ok, no problem then
<zul> qwhen is openweek btw?
<persia> zul: I believe it starts this weekend, although it may formally be next week (or I could be wrong)
<jcastro> zul: persia: it's on right now
<zul> jcastro: doh..
<persia> norsetto: Reading this again, it says that we will together provide a first draft.  Do you want to review privately?  I'd rather take full responsibility for it's weak points and have you shred it it public.
<norsetto> persia: don't be silly, just sent it over and I'll do my bit in 10 min
<ScottK> jdong: Have you talked to pitti yet about azureus?
<jdong> ScottK: not yet
<jdong> eating now, but plan on doing it soon
<jdong> wanna come back me up? :)
<ScottK> OK.  Ping me when you're ready and we can go ask together.
<ScottK> Sure
<jdong> ScottK: urgh, speaking of azureus... do you have a clean-ish system running Gutsy?
<jdong> I don't like what one person is saying in feedback to the testing deb I posted
<ScottK> Not that could run that I don't think (PIII 700 w/256mb RAM)
<jdong> ScottK: ok, then let's talk this hypothetically until I can confirm back at home.... one person claims that even with my new package GCJ Java will not start torrents properly
<jdong> I could've SWORN it worked fine and I tested that yesterday but let's pretend it didn't
<ScottK> OK.  When will that be?
<jdong> (tonight)
<bluekuja> heya jdong
<jdong> bluekuja: hey! you'd want to listen in on this one too
<bluekuja> jdong, :D
<jdong> so assuming GCJ didn't work, we are down to sun-java5-jre, sun-java6-jre, icedtea-java7-jre
<jdong> those I know *for sure* work
<ScottK> OK.  jdong - How about having it now as an "Assuming this all works right ..." conversation.
<ScottK> That's still miles ahead of where we are now.
<jdong> not really... this would affect the default Ubuntu install
<jdong> which defaults to GCJ, which results in non-working Azureus again
<bluekuja> jdong, does the package worked out at the end?
<jdong> bluekuja: do you have GCJ and can you grab my testing deb from the bug?
<jdong> bluekuja: I need you to see if you can hash-check or start torrents with GCJ
<jdong> one person claimed NullPointerException
<jdong> which worries me
<bluekuja> jdong, let me install GCJ
<bluekuja> jdong, link for the testing torrent
<bluekuja> in the meantime
<bluekuja> :)
 * persia thinks the gutsy ISOs are good testing torrents :)
<bluekuja> yep
<bluekuja> I guess so
<jdong> ScottK: long story short, we either need to (A) Force icedtea-java7-jre as a dependency, hardcode path to icedtea java in the launcher script or (B) set dep to icedtea | java6 | java5, then have launcher check for JRE's in that order, then fall back to GCJ
<jdong> bluekuja: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10110296/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu1%7E0jdong1%7E7.10.gutsy1_all.deb
<ScottK> jdong: Either of those would be a win in my book.
<bluekuja> jdong, ty, give me some minutes, finishing a thing
<jdong> bluekuja: sure thing
<jdong> ScottK: B is the more sound solution IMO, but at any rate I don't think adding this would change archive admin discretion towards the SRU itself, you think?
<ScottK> I don't think so.  The big question is if he'd take the microversion SRU.
<jdong> ScottK: indeed. well I'll go poke him now
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK watches...
<bluekuja> ScottK, do you think we can accept this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/torrentflux/+bug/155491?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155491 in torrentflux "Multiple security vulnerabilities in Edgy" [Undecided,In progress]
<ScottK> bluekuja: Looking
<bluekuja> thanks
<bluekuja> ScottK, it introduces tons of patches for security fixes
<bluekuja> all patches come from the current debian package as described there
<ScottK> bluekuja: Looks eminiently reasonable to me, if somewhat large.  CVEs should get fixed.  I'd recommend ask keescook to look at it as he'd have to accept it for -secuirty anyway.
<bluekuja> ScottK, sure thing, he did the previous revision
<bluekuja> so I gonna ping him when up
<ScottK> Well I sort of already did by using his nick.
<norsetto> persia: I find a bit weak the b part
<bluekuja> ScottK, yes, we should comment out about changing the release
<persia> norsetto: how so?
<bluekuja> ScottK, and adding a reference point to the bug inside the changelog entry to document
<norsetto> persia: while the a part is quite clear, the b part is fuzzy, we don't have precise guidelines
<ScottK> bluekuja: Sounds reasonable.
<bluekuja> ScottK, so archive-admins can easily find it
<bluekuja> ok, great
<bluekuja> going for dinner
<bluekuja> bbl
<persia> norsetto: True, but it depends on the goal.  From what I understand from the current process, everyone is b)
<norsetto> persia: yes, but b includes a
<persia> norsetto: To a certain degree, yes, but I was more trying to establish clarity.  Currently it seems an "everything at once" effort, which takes a long time, and doesn't give feedback.
<norsetto> persia: for instance, I see a clear goal that of preparing a new package
<persia> norsetto: Right.  And once that's done, it's over.  Next up.
<norsetto> persia: its as for the spec
<keescook> bluekuja: sweet, yeah, it's in my TODO list.  I've got a mess of other things to get out now that Gutsy has settled.
<anthony> soren, one more question: What's the difference in security/usage for the "Random key" option as opposed to "passphrase"?  Would it be appropriate to use random key for swap and passphrase for /home?
<bluekuja> keescook, back. I gonna comment the bug out, so he can change the release to edgy-security and maybe add the bug number inside the changelog entry
<bluekuja> keescook, for archive-admins review
<anthony> On another note, when reporting bugs that are security issues, but which only effects packages in universe which are therefore unsupported officially and don't get security updates, is it appropriate to still check the box for "this bug is a security issue", or leave that unchecked and just subscribe motu-swat?
<bluekuja> norsetto, can you please add hellboy195 to my students list?
<amit_> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/developerzone/bounties   .. Hi .. I was going through the listed bounties and "python scripting everywhere" section drew my attention. I have some Python Scripting experience but i am not familiar with the five areas mentioned. How can i get involved and do *something*
<bluekuja> norsetto, also amachu seems to be quite inactive, didnt hear news from him
<bluekuja> norsetto, since some days now
<norsetto> bluekuja: ok, thanks for letting us know, please try to get in touch with him and understand if there is a problem
<ScottK> anthony: Yes.  Still mark it a security issue.
<anthony> ScottK, Okay.
<jdong> ScottK / bluekuja : e-mail sent to pitti :)
<ScottK> anthony: But there's no need to mark bugs about publically known exploits private.
<norsetto> bluekuja: I can add a slot with hellboy195, no problem
<bluekuja> norsetto, I will. hellboy195 seems to be really active and happy about learning and improving his skills
<bluekuja> so a slot for him is ok
<bluekuja> ;)
<anthony> ScottK, Ah, the checkbox is only for things which should remain private?  (the thing in question is for a new version available upstream which fixes security issues, but all are of course published upstream now)
<bluekuja> jdong, sounds great, keep me updated with answer
<jdong> sure
<jdong> bluekuja: have you been able to test that yet?
<ScottK> anthony: There are two checkboxes.  One for security and the other for private.  If there's a new version upstream that announces the fix, there's no need to make it private.
<bluekuja> jdong, grabbing it right now, just finished that bittorrent thing
<anthony> ScottK, Oh - I only remembered one.
<jdong> bluekuja: ah, ok
<ScottK> anthony: I remember two, but who knows.  LP gets changed all the time in ways I don't expect.
<jdong> bluekuja: I also uploaded the packaging of azureus and upsteam sources for 2.5 and 3.0 as bzr branches...
<anthony> ScottK, hehe, true
<anthony> but then, so does my memory
<bluekuja> jdong, small curiosity, where those branches are hosted?
<jdong> bluekuja: I'm gonna implement the 3-way JRE detection mechanism tonight in bzr
<jdong> bluekuja: launchpad
<hellboy195> bluekuja: yeah. ubuntu rocks :D
<jdong> bluekuja: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/azureus/
<bluekuja> jdong, feel free to link them to motu-torrent please
<bluekuja> either mirroring or pushing manually
<bluekuja> hellboy195, :)
<hellboy195> shortly away
<jdong> bluekuja: yeah, I registered the mainstream stuff under ~motu-torrent
<bluekuja> jdong, you rock then
<jdong> bluekuja: I'm also keeping a branch of a modified 3.0.3.4 attempt to build wiht SWT 3.2, but that's my own crack under my username :)
<bluekuja> eheh
<ScottK> jdong: You're cc'd on my endorsement.
<anthony> soren, nvm, I think I found the answer.  random key on swap works, but will disable hibernate.
<jdong> ScottK: fantastic, thanks ScottK
<ScottK> jdong: No problem.  It's all true.
<joejaxx> Good Afternoon All
<jdong> ScottK: btw, as soon as I resolve my failing classes situation this week and next, I would like to become a MOTU. Would you be willing to advise/mentor me at that time?
<joejaxx> jdong: :)
<jdong> is the original-maintainer statement in debian/control Original-Maintainer or that XSBC-Original-Maintainer thing that lintian screams to me about?
<ScottK> XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<jdong> ok, thanks
<ScottK> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for details.
<jdong> also, am I correct in assuming that when I specify {Build-}Depends: a | b | c | d, if one has any listed one installed, nothing in addition will be installed, but if one has nothing, then APT will choose to install in the listed order?
<ScottK> jdong: Yes.
<jdong> awesome
<persia> jdong: There is a little trick with that, that if some package not listed Provides: a listed package, and is installed, or will be installed, it will be used instead.
<ScottK> jdong: Which is why you never put a virtual package first as you never know what will get installed out the virtual package.
<jdong> ok, I'm tightening Azureus dependencies.... and currently I'm B-D on " icedtea-java7-jdk" , Depends: on " icedtea-java7-jre | sun-java6-jre | sun-java5-jre" as those are the *only* JRE/JDK's I know for sure to work
<jdong> does that sound sane?
<jdong> I just need to make sure that it's compiling with javac from icedtea, and in the running environment has one of those 3 JRE's listed
<jdong> (don't care if in runtime, that's the default or not; I'll find the JVM via a launcher script)
<ScottK> jdong: man-di is a good person to ask for second opinions on Java stuff.
<bluekuja> jdong, currently testing it out
<bluekuja> jdong, *seems* everything ok atm
<jdong> bluekuja: can you do hash-checking on a torrent with more than 15MB downloaded?
<jdong> bluekuja: you SURE java -version reports GCJ?
<bluekuja> let me check
<bluekuja> again
<jdong> bluekuja: and curse you I already wrote like 15 lines of code :)
<bluekuja> jdong, andrea@nightsong:~$ java --version
<bluekuja> java version "1.5.0"
<bluekuja> gij (GNU libgcj) version 4.2.1
<bluekuja> that's what I'm running atm
<bluekuja> jdong, is that ok?
<jdong> bluekuja: yeah
<jdong> bluekuja: can you hash check a large torrent successfully?
<jdong> force a recheck
<bluekuja> k, let me bring ubuntu torrent
<jdong> bluekuja: also is gcj 4.2.1 the default gcj?
<bluekuja> jdong, for gutsy, I guess yes
<jdong> yes you're right, it is, dumb question of the day
<bluekuja> ^^
<jdong> grr is elif proper POSIX or a bashism?
<sladen> checkbashisms
<sladen> must be.  think about the syntax
<geser> jdong: the dash manpage mentions elif
<sladen> if x ; then y ; elif z ; then a ; fi
<bluekuja> jdong, started downloading
<jdong> sladen: thank you
<jdong> sladen: just I saw this azureus script from Debian use ;else ; if ; then; fi; fi
<bluekuja> jdong, no more chashes
<bluekuja> atm
<bluekuja> jdong, never seen a so stable azurues
<jdong> bluekuja: what do you make of the user who gets a NullPointerException?
<Schnitz> finger dholbach
<bluekuja> jdong, lol, strange that he gets that using your binary package
<bluekuja> jdong, every is running great in the terminal
<bluekuja> *everything
<bluekuja> jdong, it needs to be over 15 MB?
<giovani> hi, I was wondering if someone could educate me on the policy for version numbers for cvs upstream versions
<giovani> I've seen a few variations (A.B.C+cvsYYYYMMDD.X seems to be common)
<geser> giovani: there is no real policy, only try to find a number which is larger than the current one and smaller than the next upstream release
<giovani> ok, is there a dominant syntax?
<giovani> I'd rather go with the flow
<jdong> bluekuja: it seems like his error is in a hashcheck phase
<ScottK> giovani: pretty much like what you showed above.
<giovani> alright, thanks
<jdong> bluekuja: which is only done when you remove a torrent, then readd it with a half-downloaded file
<jdong> bluekuja: well it's not ONLY done then but I suspect that's how to repproduce his problem
<bluekuja> jdong, ok, I'll test it out then. The torrent downloads really slowly
<bluekuja> :/
<jdong> bluekuja: can you right-click the torrent and "Force Re-check"?
<bluekuja> yup
<bluekuja> jdong, everything fine
<bluekuja> mmm wait
<bluekuja> CPU 100%
<jdong> bluekuja: it's SHA256summing
<jdong> high CPU is expected
<bluekuja> ok for now then
<jdong> bluekuja: as long as it's not crashing, I'm going to ignore that guy's failure report :-/
<jdong> bluekuja: do you think we should still go ahead and enforce/depend on a nonGCJ java stack?
<jdong> icedtea->java6->java5->failsafe
<bluekuja> jdong, didnt crash for now
<jdong> bluekuja: evne though GCJ works, it's less likely to be good with Azureus plugins users can download....
<jdong> bluekuja: and is also much much slower than a JIT'ted stack
<jdong> oh yeah, is Universe allowed to alt-dep on a multiverse package? :(
<bluekuja> jdong, why depend on a nonGCJ java stack?
<Martinp23> .wi58
<Martinp23> (oops - sorry :))
<jdong> bluekuja: I just said, it's slower and less likely to be compatible with plugins installabe via the Tools menu
<jdong> bluekuja: and I'm not NEARLY as certain that it won't crash in other use cases
<bluekuja> jdong, you've used that procedure for the package I'm using?
<bluekuja> icedtea-->java6-->...
<jdong> bluekuja: no, not currently
<jdong> bluekuja: that's in a bzr branch
<jdong> bluekuja: this one just uses java set by update-alternatives
<bluekuja> jdong, still CPU 100 %
<bluekuja> and seems to be stuck
<jdong> bluekuja: that's what I was afraid of
<jdong> bluekuja: using a Java stack INTERPRETED to calculate SHA256 sums
<bluekuja> no wait, it restarted
<bluekuja> 13.2%
<bluekuja> 13.3%
<bluekuja> it's moving
<jdong> bluekuja: that speed is horrid
<jdong> bluekuja: is it CPU bound or iowait?
<bluekuja> I know^^
<bluekuja> jdong, dont know, where can I check that?
<jdong> bluekuja: top
 * ScottK thought slow was a Java feature?
<jdong> ScottK: entirely false
<jdong> ScottK: Sun Hotspot can often tune code faster than native C
<ScottK> Wow.
<jdong> ScottK: the ability to decide optimizations at runtime is immense
 * ScottK has entirely managed to avoid Java so far.
<jdong> in comparison to predicting at compiletime
<bluekuja> jdong, where top?
<bluekuja> jdong, cannot find it at top bar
<jdong> bluekuja: no, the top command
<bluekuja> ah darn
<bluekuja> I thought you were talking about
<bluekuja> azurues
<jdong> bluekuja: Cpu(s): compare us% vs wa %
<bluekuja> jdong, Cpu(s): 97.0%us,  0.7%sy,  0.0%ni,  2.3%id,  0.0%wa
<jdong> bluekuja: CPU bound, GCJ's fault
<jdong> bluekuja: that's just sad... sun/icedtea is 100% wa (IO bound) near 0-10% CPU max
<bluekuja> jdong, that's not fixed then
<bluekuja> jdong, at least it doesnt crash at startup
<bluekuja> as the current version does
<jdong> bluekuja: update-alternatives --config java, siwtch to icedtea
<jdong> bluekuja: then try force recheck again
<bluekuja> jdong, I have
<bluekuja> *+        1    /usr/bin/gij-4.2
<bluekuja>           2    /usr/bin/gij-4.1
<jdong> bluekuja: install icedtea-java7-jre
<bluekuja> downloading
<bluekuja> jdong, you'll have to explain me if need to ask you something java-related
<jdong> bluekuja: sure thing
<bluekuja> jdong, I dont know java as well as you do
<bluekuja> and yeah, I admit, I dont like java too much
<bluekuja> :)
<jdong> bluekuja: if it weren't for Sun's former restrictive EULA and now GNU's horrid slow incomplete attempt to redo it.... Java would be amazing
<zul> *cough* java sucks *cough*
<bluekuja> lol
<ScottK> geser: Please tell me you didn't upload a fix to gutsy-proposed that you haven't verified works (that's what I get from your mail to the MOTU list)?
<bluekuja> jdong, force-recheck done
<bluekuja> in 5 seconds
<bluekuja> damn fast
<geser> ScottK: I didn't check the package myself
<bluekuja> azureus started in 1 second as well
<bluekuja> using icedtea
<jdong> bluekuja: are you now convinced as to why we should prioritize/depend on icedtea -> sun6 -> sun5?
<ScottK> geser: Did you upload it?
<geser> yes
<bluekuja> jdong, definitely yes now...
<bmk789> do most packagers do their packaging in a VM or is it normal to do it on your main OS with pbuilder?
<bluekuja> jdong, I should have tried it directly
<geser> ScottK: that patch comes from upstream
 * ScottK sort of thought testing before uploading would have been a good idea?
<bluekuja> jdong, yesterday
<jdong> bluekuja:  :)
<bluekuja> jdong, let's move that way
<bluekuja> jdong, it simply rocks
<ScottK> bmk789: I always build in pbuilder so I know I'm starting clean.
<jdong> bluekuja: whole-heartedly agreed.... now, logistics....
<jdong> Depends: icedtea-java7-jre | sun-java6-jre | sun-java5-jre,
<jdong> ^^ is that legal for universe packages?
<jdong> to provide a universe primary Depends but 2 alternatives from multiverse?
<bluekuja> mmm...I would say yes. But I might be wrong
<bluekuja> ScottK, geser ?
<AnAnt> what's the clean target in rules file for ?
<zul> to remove object files,etc
<ScottK> jdong: If it has a multiverse depends it gets exiled to multiverse
<AnAnt> is there a target in rules file that is executed when I run debuild ?
<bluekuja> AnAnt, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch04s05.html
<jdong> ScottK: even if a choice is satisfiable by universe package?
<ScottK> Ah.  Good question.  I haven't run into that before.
<jdong> ScottK: I can just change it to just Depends: icedtea-java7-jre, but that punishes people with java5/java6 to download a 35MB new runtime
<jdong> ScottK: I mean in this case I don't think it makes much sense to demote to multiverse...
<ScottK> jdong: I'd say discuss with pitti after he responds to the pleading for a micro version SRU.
<jdong> ScottK: ok
<bluekuja> ScottK, it should get exiled only if it doesnt have satisfiable packages on universe
<bluekuja> ScottK, and I should try the case jdong explained
<jdong> bluekuja: agreed, but I don't think should necessarily == our policies
<ScottK> bluekuja: It's really up to the archive admins, that's why I said ask pitti.
<bluekuja> ScottK, fair enough. We'll wait pitti tomorrow then
<jdong> bluekuja: when you get a chance, review/test bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~motu-torrent/azureus/ubuntu-packaging/
<jdong> bluekuja: I've gotta run for the day
<bluekuja> jdong, added to TODO
<bluekuja> bath now
 * bluekuja needs some relax
<bluekuja> :)
<geser> bluekuja: good question, try asking an archive admin
<ScottK> bluekuja: To Much Information.
<bluekuja> ScottK, lol
<bluekuja> geser, I will
 * bluekuja off 
<slangasek> ScottK, bluekuja: if component-mismatches claimed a package should be punted to multiverse for having an alternative dep in multiverse, I think that would pretty clearly be a bug in component-mismatches
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<ScottK> jdong: ^^^
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I got spam... "Become a pornstar today ajmitch"
<Nafallo> wtf?
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> impressive
<imbrandon> lol
<Nafallo> oh. I was only CC'd ;-)
 * ajmitch blames imbrandon 
<Nafallo> even more WTF
<imbrandon> Nafallo, maybe its all those facebook quizes youve been sending out :)
<Nafallo> imbrandon: hehe ;-)
<Nafallo> imbrandon: have you got a dragon yet? :-)
<bmk789> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bmk789
<imbrandon> Nafallo, nah, i ahvent hardly touched my facebook in a cupple weeks
<imbrandon> been trying to get a sane 2.6.x fatx patch accepted , well at leaste working
<Nafallo> imbrandon: you should get a dragon, then you touch it daily again :-)
<imbrandon> for hardy
<imbrandon> everyones damn fatx kernels are 2.4 :(
<imbrandon> figured there would atleaste be a fuse driver or something
<slangasek> "fatx"?
<imbrandon> although it looks like "someone" is working on it on lkml
<zul> heh blame imbrandon first ask questions later
<imbrandon> slangasek, the filesystem Xboxes use
<slangasek> oh
<Nafallo> zul: :-)
<imbrandon> slangasek, thats why my xboxes run gentoo not ubuntu :) and even if i get ubuntu to boot its only with 2.4 kernels
<imbrandon> slangasek, here is the jest of it http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/23/114
<imbrandon> mostly its not to run xboxes though that i want it for, its to read xbox hard drives from my gutsy/hardy install ;)
<jdong> slangasek: thanks for the answer
<giovani> hi, another question :) -- if I wanted to keep both a "stable" and a cvs package in the same repository, is the recommended method to name one PACKAGE, and the other PACKAGE-CVS, I've seen that done a handful of times, not sure how to deal with the requirement
<Nafallo> imbrandon: port it to 2.6 :-)
<imbrandon> Nafallo, yea i have been tinkering with it, but i'm not a great kernel hacker ;)
 * imbrandon looks at zul
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> was just about to point at him ;-)
<zul> imbrandon: hmmm?
<imbrandon> port the fatx fs driver from 2.4 to 2.6 :)
<imbrandon> hehe
 * zul twinkles his nose
<imbrandon> xebian has it if that helps :)
<imbrandon> lool
<zul> imbrandon: you'll have to send me an xbox to test it out dont you?
<Nafallo> imbrandon: want to use xboxes as buildds in the future? ;-)
<imbrandon> zul, i could just send you some fatx formated file images you could loop mount
<imbrandon> Nafallo, that would be nice
<Nafallo> btw, are the ps3 kernel build on ps3? :-)
<zul> imbrandon: that would be an interesting project
<imbrandon> probably just on a normal ppc
<imbrandon> Nafallo, ^
<imbrandon> zul, give me a few minutes , i'll see if i can make a fatx drive image from my usb key ( xbox memory card ) its fatx too
<Nafallo> imbrandon: yea, think so to. someone is cheating... ;-)
<wallyweek> interesting question, now you mention the ps3
<zul> imbrandon: cool put it up somewhere i can get at it
<imbrandon> kk
<wallyweek> is there any way to cross-build a package for ppc
<wallyweek> on a i386 environment?
<imbrandon> wallyweek, well yes and no
<imbrandon> heh as far as building a "package" no, not easily, as far as simple bins yes, look into scratchbox
<wallyweek> imbrandon: thanx! :)
<imbrandon> far easier to just install a ppc distro/bootstrap into qemu-system-ppc
<imbrandon> just fyi, i went down that road a few months ago
<imbrandon> and even with qemu-system-ppc its not simple/easy but much much easier
<wallyweek> yes, I can figure it out
<wallyweek> and that's why I still haven't tried to build my packages for ppc ;9
<wallyweek> ;)
<LeRoutier> Hello great masters
<imbrandon> zul, dd if=/dev/sdb of=fatx_test.img
<imbrandon> err zul gettign image now
<wallyweek> as I read ppc is not officially supported anymore,
<LeRoutier> I'm in the process of taking maintainership of swfdec* packages for Debian. I'd like to do it also for Ubuntu
<LeRoutier> where should I start ?
<wallyweek> could my packages reach the repository even without a clean ppc build?
<imbrandon> wallyweek, yes its only a "community port"
<Nafallo> I want my bank account so I can get pay and get my coat :-P
<wallyweek> LeRoutier, I think you don't have to do much work
<imbrandon> LeRoutier, ubuntu maintains packages as a group , e.g. MOTU, you can ( but dont need to ) join MOTU , or you can just work with MOTU's to get your uploads done if needed ubuntu specific changes
<wallyweek> however, have a look at the Ubuntu packaging guide
<imbrandon> but if the packages are already in debian they will sync here automatricly
<zul> imbrandon: ill be back later tonight
<imbrandon> zul, ok , ping me later
<zul> okied okies
<LeRoutier> David Schleef (ds@debian.org, current/future-ex-former swfdec maint) should upload some of my packages as sponsor
<imbrandon> its a 256mb image, but i'll compress it
<imbrandon> zul, ^
<zul> imbrandon: fine with me
<LeRoutier> but some changes need to stay ubuntu only, because of things like Ubufox integration
<LeRoutier> hi asac
<slangasek> LeRoutier: hmm, David Schleef is no longer maintaining them?
<LeRoutier> and firefox references too in swfdec-mozilla package
<LeRoutier> slangasek, nope, he lacks time and isn't too motivated either
<asac> hi
<LeRoutier> he don't even have any deb machine/pbuilder running
<LeRoutier> (anymore)
<imbrandon> LeRoutier, then the best course of action is just make the changes and talk to us MOTU's in here when you need upload sponsors, eventualy ( quicker than you think ) will becomes a MOTU
<LeRoutier> ok, #launchpad team just accepted my PPA activation
<LeRoutier> I'll upload my packages there for testing
<imbrandon> :)
<LeRoutier> 0.5.3 based, with Ubufox support, using /etc/alternatives too
<imbrandon> nice, alternatives is always good, if not confusing at times ;)
<slangasek> oh geez, we're up to swfdec0.5 now?
<LeRoutier> already 3 flashs plugins that I know about, was the only one that didn't support it
<imbrandon> man you know your on a slow box when gzip takes 90% cpu for over 3 minutes
<LeRoutier> slangasek, yep, and we actually have 0.3, 0.4 & 0.5 shipping in Gutsy, which is quite horrible
<LeRoutier> need a clean-up before Hardy ships
<slangasek> LeRoutier: long-term, it's beneficial for everyone if it's possible to find a way to keep the same source package in Debian and Ubuntu
<imbrandon> oh wow
<slangasek> LeRoutier: right, 0.3 will fall out of hardy automatically with the first Debian sync since it's gone now from testing/unstable
<LeRoutier> well, I saw that iceweathing has also a plugin finder like Ubufox
<LeRoutier> with luck, they'll end-up with the same metadata format in control files or anywhere else
<slangasek> right, and if it's just metadata in the control files, that doesn't seem like a reason not to keep the same thing in Debian & Ubuntu
<slangasek> IMHO
<LeRoutier> If someone want to test them before I upload them to PPA, here they are : http://www.leroutier.net/floss/apt/index.html
<LeRoutier> I'd like some feedback
<LeRoutier> I didn't know how to format conf/distributions for Gutsy so I made it sid, works with my gutsy
<norsetto_> bug 155950 is suitable for a new contributor. Pls. assign yourself to it and mark it in-progress if interested. I'm available to mentor it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155950
<bmk789> im trying to do the packaging tutorial http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html   but im getting an error when running the dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<bmk789> imbrandon: ^
<wallyweek> hello norsetto, cfalco here :)
<norsetto> wallyweek: hey!
<norsetto> wallyweek: I like you new nick better ;-)
<imbrandon> bmk789, what error ?
<bmk789> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
<wallyweek> it should avoid... ehm... any mess ;)
<imbrandon> bmk789, pastebin the whole thing
<norsetto> wallyweek: amen ....
<bmk789> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/41743/
<geser> bmk789: chmod +x debian/rules
<bmk789> same error
<bmk789> wait
<imbrandon> yea the rules file is a makefile, needs to be executable , e.g. +x
<bluekuja> slangasek, thanks :)
<nixternal> booyahkah
<imbrandon> ello nixternal
<nixternal> wasabi homeskillet
<imbrandon> nadda
<bluekuja> heya nixternal
<nixternal> I guess I could go back to hola since LaserJock isn't around :)
<nixternal> howdy bluekuja
<bmk789> ok it works now i just need to setup this gnupg stuff
<imbrandon> :)
<slangasek> imbrandon: it needs to be executable because it's invoked as a script, not because it's a makefile. :)
<imbrandon> ahh my mistake, i knew it had to be, just had the wrong reason
<imbrandon> man i really need to brush up, considering i have to talk on some of this later this week ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<bmk789> is there a guide to gnupg?
<imbrandon> bmk789, yes on the wiki, lemme find a link
<giovani> http://www.gnupg.org/docs.html
<bluekuja> bmk789, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPG
<imbrandon> bluekuja, thanks
<bluekuja> imbrandon, np :)
<bmk789> thanks
<imbrandon> probably even a factoid about it .....
<imbrandon> !gpg
<ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
<bluekuja> yep
<bluekuja> ^^
<imbrandon> ahh there we go
<LeRoutier> bmk789, If you don't want to deal with the command line, use seahorse
<imbrandon> or kgpg ( depending on DE choice ) :P
<jdong> imbrandon: does kgpg now function as an agent?
<imbrandon> it will use and config the cli agent now afaik
<ajmitch> I see we're using DaD again for merging (according to the topic)
<Nafallo> oh. is it opened already?
<wallyweek> anyone using svn-buildpackage?
<ajmitch> if not, probably soon
<ajmitch> but merges are already being done
<LeRoutier> hum, uploading binaries to PPA is a bad idea
<ajmitch> a very bad idea
<ajmitch> good day, mr bacon
<norsetto> a definetively very bad idea
<LeRoutier> ajmitch, norsetto : don't worry, I recieved an insult mail from the bot
<bluekuja> good night everyone
<SELinux> hello jono
<Nafallo> jono: hi :-).
<ajmitch> LeRoutier: it only wastes your bandwidth, really
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> I always get reminded to start liferea when I see you jono ;-)
<LeRoutier> ajmitch, I should just change my build scripts
<jono> hey
<jono> Nafallo: hehe
<jono> :)
<imbrandon> the ppa probably wont accept a bin upload would it ?
<imbrandon> heya jono
<norsetto> LeRoutier: now you are blacklisted and will be banned for life, or until you can pay us a beer
<SELinux> imbrandon: i do not think it does
<wallyweek> imbrandon, definitely not
<Nafallo> jono: you missed out last Thursday btw. it was great :-)
<wallyweek> ok, I should consider bzr-builddeb, right? ;)
<lifeless> jono: not sleeping again ?
<jono> lifeless: heh, I sometimes pop on in the eve
<jono> Nafallo: glad you had a good 'un :)
<lifeless> of the war ?
<jono> hey imbrandon
<jono> :)
<imbrandon> man this fatx kernel patch might not be so bad, i might beome a kernel hacker after all, nah too much stress ;)
<slangasek> LeRoutier: fwiw, small regression in your swfdec0.5 debian/watch file, you changed 0\.4 to 0.5 when it should really be 0\.5; this is a regexp, and you technically want to match a literal "." there
<LeRoutier> slangasek, uscan doesn't agree with you
<slangasek> LeRoutier: doesn't agree how?
<LeRoutier> looks like it only wants escaping between the (...)
<LeRoutier> slangasek, go to /, type uscan. With 0.5/ in watch file, he's happy. with 0\.5, he's not
<LeRoutier> sad lintian/linda don't check this
<lifeless> file a bug
<lifeless> StevenK may well be motivated.
<LeRoutier> ah, both swfdec* source packages approve by PPA
<slangasek> LeRoutier: hmm, so it does.  well, that's weird then.
<LeRoutier> has those were my first packages, I used as much tools as possible to test my packages for conformance
<LeRoutier> doesn't mean those are perfect
<LeRoutier> If you find anything, please report
<LeRoutier> how much time between src package accepted by PPA and binaries available to anyone ?
<imbrandon> depends, sometimes 40 minutes sometimes ~1 day
<slangasek> depends on how long the package takes to build, certainly
<LeRoutier> nevermind, they just came online
<imbrandon> yesterday the xen i386 was down for the count heh
<imbrandon> so it took much longer
<LeRoutier> false alert, only src packages listed for now
<LeRoutier> currently building : https://edge.launchpad.net/~leroutier/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<LeRoutier> back
<wallyweek> lr, still building?
<LeRoutier> Pending (1010)
<LeRoutier> https://edge.launchpad.net/~leroutier/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<persia> Apparently audacity 1.2.6-0ubuntu1 (feisty release version) doesn't work in non-latin locales.  audacity-1.3.3-build1 (gutsy release version) compiles on feisty.  Is this the sort of bug which should be a backport request?
<LeRoutier> is that the position in the build queue ?
<persia> LeRoutier: It's a priority number.  When selecting the next package for build, all packages with the same priority number appear to have equal chance of building (although there are other factors as well)
<wallyweek> persia, good to know, I had the same question ;)
<LeRoutier> Build started 1 minutes ago  on promethium (xen-amd64)
<LeRoutier> hum, is there a way to change build order on PPA ?
<LeRoutier> it first tried to compile swfdec-mozilla before swfdec
<wallyweek> lr, looks bad :(
<LeRoutier> I uploaded them in the good order
<LeRoutier> looks like it processed them in inverse order
<wallyweek> never had the same issue
<lifeless> did they have the same priority ?
<LeRoutier> yep
<wallyweek> swfdec-mozilla depends on swfdec, I presume?
<LeRoutier> yep
<wallyweek> build-depends?
<imbrandon> lifeless, i know you cant give any kinda of definate awnser at all but you know when PPA package removal "might"/"possibly" hit edge ?
<LeRoutier> wallyweek, swfdec0.5-dev is in swfdec-mozilla 's build deps
<lifeless> I don't know sorry
<lifeless> Ask in #launchpad - its what I would do :)
<wallyweek> lr, weird, build should have stopped just after starting
<wallyweek> afaik, deps are resolved ppa first, then the specified release
<wallyweek> is swfdec in ubuntu?
<wallyweek> I mean an older release of course
<LeRoutier> yep
<LeRoutier> 0.5.1
<LeRoutier> argh, my fault
<wallyweek> I wonder what deps will be in the resulting binary .deb
<LeRoutier> just saw this : Build-Depends: ... libswfdec0.5-dev (>= 0.5.3-1)
<LeRoutier> but Ubuntu version is -0
<LeRoutier> argh
<wallyweek> :|
<wallyweek> I think you'll have to upload your source package again
<wallyweek> don't forget to change the revision
<wallyweek> or the bot will reject the upload
<LeRoutier> 0.1 is ok ?
<LeRoutier> it's 0 actually
<imbrandon> LeRoutier, mostly people just append ~ppaX
<LeRoutier> ok, i'll do it, thanks
<tonyyarusso> soren: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/110970
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110970 in cryptsetup "When mounting encrypted drives the password should be asked for graphically and not in text mode" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<LeRoutier> swfdec0.5 compiled well. new swfdec-mozilla uploaded and accepted
<blueyed> siretart: I've fixed/proofread the doc for bzr-builddeb, during learning what it can provide.
<blueyed> Is it ok to provide it as a debdiff or would a bzr branch be preferred? (I've not found that the package is maintained in bzr somewhere, which is kind of odd ;)
<wallyweek> blueyed, I don't know, put please upload it somewhere as I may need it shortly :)
<pwnguin> aww crap, i forgot about open week.
 * ajmitch didn't know much about open week
<pwnguin> it would have been nice to have sat in on the kernel team meeting
<pwnguin> session, whatever
<ajmitch> it would be nice to be able to go to any of the sessions
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> they start at noon :P
<ajmitch> for you, perhaps
<nxvl> norsetto: ping
<norsetto> nxvl: Hola
<nxvl> norsetto: heh, hispanohablante
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm working in efax-gtk merge
<norsetto> nxvl: no, hablante patetico
<nxvl> norsetto: lets talk in priv so we can talk on spanish
<nxvl> :D
<blueyed> wallyweek: for now it's attached to bug 145019 (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10124412/bzr-builddeb_0.90ubuntu2.dsc.diff). Or do you mean the bzr branch itself?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145019 in bzr-builddeb "bzr-builddep: README: wrong path to documentation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145019
<nxvl> norsetto: sorry, i think u speak spanish
<pwnguin> so now that gutsy's out and working, what should I do with my testing partition?
<norsetto> lol
 * imbrandon dosent have any sessions untill the end of the week
<nxvl> norsetto: the thing is that im not sure about the debdiff part
<imbrandon> pwnguin, hardy ?
<pwnguin> is that open yet?
<nxvl> norsetto: i need un gunzio the diff.gz and compare the ubuntu with the debian one?
<imbrandon> the toolchain is there, kinda
<pwnguin> id been thinking about trying to squeeze ubuntu-mobile onto it
<imbrandon> it will be open "soon"
<norsetto> nxvl: ok, have you checked the wiki page link I gave on the email?
<nxvl> norsetto: yes, i'm following it
<imbrandon> pwnguin, is there actualy anything in -mobile yet ?
<pwnguin> lpia?
<pwnguin> tons
<norsetto> nxvl: well, you can do merges in two ways; manual and guided
<pwnguin> i have a small chroot
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm stack in the first point of "Get to work"
<imbrandon> pwnguin, got any ppc's arround to "donate" to me ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<norsetto> nxvl: ok, let me check the point
<pwnguin> apparently they're targetting devices without traditional install tools
<pwnguin> what no
<pwnguin> why would i have ppcs?
<nxvl> norsetto: it says "#
<nxvl> norsetto: it says "Check the package_ubuntu.debdiff file to check what has been modified in Ubuntu in previous versions and why.
<nxvl> #
<pwnguin> go down to topeka and hunt
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yea like the ipod and such
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yea i plan on it this weekend
<nxvl> norsetto: so i'm unsure, do i need to gunzio the diff.gz's and compare them or just check the changelog?
<pwnguin> imbrandon: the surplus place?
<imbrandon> yea
<pwnguin> lemme know if you see anything awesome
<imbrandon> kk
<pwnguin> i didnt know they were open on weekends
<imbrandon> might not be , i havent checked
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> its a government facility, it sounds unlikely
<imbrandon> if not i'm sure i can sneak out friday
<imbrandon> i just need to get something more than this 200 lol
<pwnguin> imbrandon: I do have an amd64 3000+ athlon lying around
<norsetto> nxvl: its talking about the tools you can use
<nxvl> norsetto: oh!
<norsetto> nxvl: in that case, its grab-merge that will do the debdiff
<imbrandon> mb / ram / chip ? wanna get rid of it ?
<pwnguin> just the chip
<pwnguin> no ram or mb
<imbrandon> ahh i got some ram i think will work
<imbrandon> hrm
<pwnguin> i replaced it with a 4200+ x2
<norsetto> nxvl: its usually called package_ubuntu.patch
<imbrandon> nice
<pwnguin> socket 939
<pwnguin> imbrandon: have you seen prices lately?
<imbrandon> cheap , yea i know
<norsetto> nxvl: where package_ubutnu in this case will be efax-gtk_3.0.14-1ubuntu1.patch
<pwnguin> i think you could build my current computer for close to 300
<imbrandon> but i mostly wanna stick with refurb or buy a new quad intel
<nxvl> norsetto: mm oh, i have see it, let me download. i have only do dget -x *.dsc
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> quad intel
<pwnguin> brutal
<imbrandon> well if i'm gonna buy new i'm gonna make sure its tough
<pwnguin> then you can go complain that there arent more multithreaded apps
<norsetto> nxvl: you can do it manually, but you have also to download the old version from either the ubuntu or debian archives
<imbrandon> honestly i wish i had the money for a new power6 imb based system
<imbrandon> ibm*
<nxvl> norsetto: and what did u recomend me to do, the manual or the guided one?
<norsetto> nxvl: since its your first merge, I would say guided
<pwnguin> imbrandon: anyways, i was hoping i could just apt-get install -mobile, that doesn't seem to be "in the cards"
<nxvl> norsetto: ok, what do i need to read/download for that?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, nah its more a bootstrap thing
<norsetto> nvxl: but if you do some others after try manual, its really good for learning
<jdong> pwnguin: my first complaint was that python wasn't truly multithreaded :)
<jdong> pwnguin: second was see #1 for ruby
<pwnguin> hurray java
<norsetto> nxvl: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
<imbrandon> eww
<jdong> pwnguin: Mono/Java stack immediately catched my attention after that
<pwnguin> well, gcj sucks
<pwnguin> we know that
<jdong> I was more aligned with mono than Java though
<imbrandon> c# ftw
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> ocaml ftw
<jdong> I liked the mono language syntaxes better
<nxvl> norsetto: where is the docs about it?
<imbrandon> speaking of, i should check out those new qt bindings today
<jdong> pwnguin: gcj sucks is a well established fact :)
<nxvl> s/is/are/
<jdong> pwnguin: this icedtea stack is gonna be HOT :)
<norsetto> nxvl: about what?
<pwnguin> jdong: will it be in main?
<nxvl> norsetto: the script
<jdong> pwnguin: I don't know... maybe when it exits out of beta :)
<imbrandon> jdong, does it improve java performace 1000% ? if not bleh
<norsetto> nxvl: I'm not aware of any
<nxvl> norsetto: or do i only need to run it on an empty folder?
<jdong> imbrandon: is there anything wrong with Java performance under a Sun Hotspot JVM?
<pwnguin> java performance is bad?
<norsetto> nxvl: just chmod+x it, and run it with ./grab-merge.sh package
<jdong> imbrandon: in computational tasks, it's often faster than C++
<jdong> imbrandon: in desktop tasks, it's about on par...
<pwnguin> i realize they have this stupid  -server option that means "make it run fast"
<jdong> minus the first run's JIT
<imbrandon> java always crawls for me
<norsetto> nxvl: if you have a ~/bin dir put it there
<jdong> imbrandon: what JVM(s) are you using?
<imbrandon> sun 6
<pwnguin> imbrandon: you sure?
<norsetto> nxvl: otherwise I think is included in ubuntu-dev-tools
<jdong> imbrandon: it crawls doing what?
<imbrandon> and blackdown 1.4 on ppc
<jdong> sun hotspot JVM's are impressively fast
<pwnguin> imbrandon: the best part about java is that there's so many versions of it, everyone invented their own way of coping with it. ie JAVA_HOME
<imbrandon> jdong, any java app, frostwire azureus webapps
<imbrandon> etc
<nxvl> norsetto: package as efax-gtk_3.0.15-1 or just as efax-gtk
<pwnguin> azureus is just straight up huge
<jdong> imbrandon: http://www.kano.net/javabench/data
<norsetto> nxvl: unversioned
<jdong> imbrandon: azureus is a pretty hefty app though....
<nxvl> norsetto: ok, running
<jdong> imbrandon: I don't see people praising Openoffice for being fast ;-)
<pwnguin> it loads a huge ass graphViz thing
<nxvl> norsetto: it will download *.14 and *.15, didn't it?
<imbrandon> jdong, i dont use oo.o either for that reason
<imbrandon> koffice :)
<jdong> pwnguin: but.... don't YOU wanna see that mesh grid for vivaldi latencies?
<jdong> :D
<norsetto> nxvl: it should download the old debian, the old ubuntu and the new debian
<pwnguin> im really not caring, as long as my download speed's maxed out, which it also does
<pwnguin> i almost never hit 1:1 share ratio
<jdong> jdong's law #1: Every process that takes a long time should have neough eye candy displayed to entertain the computer operator during that period.
<imbrandon> pwnguin,  btlaunchmanycurses ./
<norsetto> nxvl: and it will guess the new ubuntu which you will find as a tree already
<imbrandon> :)
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> that stuff's too amateur
<jdong> Corrolary #1: We really need a Compiz backed GCC frontend
<jdong> imbrandon: uses a disgusting amount of CPU...
<pwnguin> i can't configure the trading algorithm etc without editing python sources
<LeRoutier> Who should I ask to become a project driver and bug contact ? (https://launchpad.net/swfdec)
<LeRoutier> orphan project for now
<jdong> pwnguin: make sure you edit the sources in compliance with california laws!
<nxvl> norsetto: is there any diference between puting it on ~/bin or in /usr/sbin/?
<jdong> pwnguin: ifyou're coding in a car, make sure no stickers or laptop screens obstruct more than the corner 2" of your windshield :)
<pwnguin> i havent read the sources
<pwnguin> is the license silly?
<norsetto> nxvl: if you are the only user of the machine, none
<jdong> pwnguin: BT 4/5 license tells you that while using it, you have to obey California laws
<nxvl> norsetto: so, there isn't any problem
<pwnguin> neat
<jdong> pwnguin: and anywhere that you host it, it has to remain up for at least 6 months :)
<pwnguin> its been some time since ive used the regular BT
<pwnguin> jdong: thats not so unusual
<nxvl> norsetto: ok, it's done, now i need to read the REPORT?
<pwnguin> gpl requires you to offer the code for like 3 years
<norsetto> nxvl: it helps
<nxvl> norsetto: ok, and then? i'm done?
<jdong> pwnguin: at any rate, I'm glad Azureus finally works :)
<pwnguin> awesome
<pwnguin> in gutsy?
<jdong> pwnguin: and hopefully SWT3.3 will come to ubuntu/debian soon so I can get started doing proper 3.0.3.4 packages :)
<jdong> pwnguin: yes, I've prepared fixed packages that build under Gutsy, and posted a testing deb
<jdong> pwnguin: waiting for e-mail convo between archive admins to see if there's any chance doing this as a SRU, if not, then backports
<norsetto> nxvl: first, you have to understand the changes between the old ubuntu and the old debian
<norsetto> norsetto: second, check if there is any ubuntu change already in the new debian version
<nxvl> norsetto: mmm, i undestand that, but it's not clear how do i do that, with the .patch files?
<norsetto> nxvl: third: apply all the remaining ubuntu changes to the new debian -> you have a new ubuntu
<norsetto> nxvl: check what files you have in the dir, all those needed are there already
<norsetto> nxvl: only important thing, remember to check for conflicts
<norsetto> nxvl: gotta go now, its pretty late here
<imbrandon> man i hate gmail, i was just about to clean out my mailbox and they go and 2x my storage
 * imbrandon can continue to be lazy
<norsetto> g'night all
<imbrandon> gnight norsetto
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> anyone who want to help me merging?
<imbrandon> nxvl, i'm bout to eat some dinner but if no one has helped you by the time i get back i will
<nxvl> imbrandon: thnx
<wallyweek> back only to say goodnight :)
<imbrandon> zul, http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/fatx_test.img.gz  ping me when your back arround
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-23
<crimsun> nxvl: I'm around if you need assistance.
<bmk789> im doubting theres any kind of video tutorial on packaging is there?
<nixternal> yes there is
<nixternal> code.google.com
<bmk789> on ubuntu packaging?
<nxvl> crimsun: nice, i quite lost
<nxvl> crimsun: i have generated the debian.debdiff and ubuntu.debdiff
<nxvl> crimsun: i see a lot of changes
<giovani> wikipedia fundraised
<giovani> fundraiser
<giovani> just started
<nxvl> crimsun: in debian.debdiff there MUST be changes since it's a new version so i didn't need to see they, didn't i?
<nxvl> crimsun: in the debian.debdiff what i need to do is to check is the changes in ubuntu.diff are in there, didn't i?
<nxvl> well, time to go home, back in some minutes
<crimsun> nxvl: I lack backscroll, can you tell me which merge you're doing?
<LeRoutier> good night ppl
<tonyyarusso> aww man, did Thunderbird support in tracker just miss the deadline by like two weeks for Gutsy?
<RAOF> It's still experimental, isn't it?
<RAOF> As in: you can turn it on in the config file, but there's deliberatly no UI for it yet?
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: I think there's actually a checkbox in the UI, but it's greyed out for now.
<tonyyarusso> You might be right though.
<zul> imbrandon: ping
<tonyyarusso> Can someone tell me how to use reportbug to submit to the Debian BTS?  Even with the --bts option it's going to Ubuntu still for me.
<tonyyarusso> oh, nvm.  Different syntax.
<superm1> jdong, you here?
<jdong> superm1: yes sir
<superm1> jdong, okay so were we going to push forward with that SRU?
<jdong> superm1: have not received a response from pitti yet
<superm1> jdong, ah i see
<superm1> mail or ping?
<jdong> superm1: mail
<superm1> jdong, mkay.  slangasek might also be good to talk to instead if you don't hear from pitti soo
<superm1> *soon
<jdong> superm1: ok, I'll wait a day or two for pitti before bugging others... it's a long story :)
<jdong> superm1: I'm currently working on two minor issues uncovered by launchpad testers
<superm1> okay then i won't dwelve into asking too much :)
<superm1> jdong, wonderful that's good
<jdong> yeah, turns out we need to make sure user has either the (universe) icedtea stack or a multiverse sun-java* stack
<superm1> jdong, just ping me when your ready to proceed then
<jdong> the GCJ one runs like 100x slower for hash checking
<superm1> yikes
<jdong> which kinda sucks for torrenting to the point of unusability
<superm1> well depend on icedtea then?
<jdong> nobody is gonna wait an hour to hash-check a 100MB file :)
<jdong> superm1: did exactly that, alt-dep on sun-java*
<superm1> the problem is making sure that they are active then eh?
<jdong> superm1: and modified the launcher to bypass alternatives and directly look in /usr/lib/jvm for a preferred runtime
<superm1> set to the default one
<superm1> ah good
<jdong> :)
<superm1> two steps ahead of my thought process.  i like it.
<jdong> superm1: now working on a 3-liner to suppress an annoying error box that Azureus pops up about its updater not being able to write to /usr/lib :)
<StevenK> jdong: You can't disable the updater?
<StevenK> Oh look, we start talking about Azureus, and RAOF turns up...
<jdong> StevenK: well, I don't want to totally disable the updater... Azureus uses it to update plugins users can put in ~/.azureus
<jdong> StevenK: I only need to suppress the SWT update check -- the only update checked that's in a system location
<StevenK> jdong: Ah, so you'd prefer to castrate it.
<RAOF> StevenK: Drawn by dark callings, yes
<StevenK> RAOF: :-)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> ok, verified to solve SWT update nag..... Wow I love it when a 3-liner patch is functional and not hackish :)
<pwnguin> it still infuriates me that the eclipse package uses JAVA_HOME
<jdong> pwnguin: my ability to package azureus 3.0.3.4 (a 3-month-old update to Azureus) is being hampered by that big elephant.
<jdong> don't get me started.
 * ajmitch hugs java
<ajmitch> so much fun
<jdong> lol
<jdong> ajmitch: why does it seem like most of the time it's our packaging that's the curse?
<jdong> ajmitch: for some reason fedora/mandriva java packaging looks so crisp and clean....
<jdong> one build script, 2 or 3 minor patches....
<jdong> instead of our huge debian/ jungle with dh_eclipse_magical_ecj_thingie
<jdong> and like a bazillion patches
<pwnguin> last time i looked at azureus (some time ago, mind you) there seemed to be an attempt to get azurues to build to a native app
<ajmitch> jdong: I can't say, I won't touch any of it
<jdong> pwnguin: there was with the 2.5.0.0-repack packaging too
<pwnguin> fedora's committed to ecj, no?
<jdong> pwnguin: they're not committed to anything
<jdong> pwnguin: F7 included icedtea beta, I'm not sure what they're doiung with F8
<pwnguin> what i mean is, they heavily support the use of free software and if non-free is broke, shurgs abound
<jdong> pwnguin: that is correct
<jdong> pwnguin: they used to heavily use GCJ
<pwnguin> i imagine they're all up in icedtea
<pwnguin> which is great
<jdong> pwnguin: and that's where we got our initial Azureuses, with like 50 patches to get it to half-compile
<pwnguin> when you say "we"
<pwnguin> universe, or debian?
<jdong> universe
<jdong> pwnguin: and the part that converts it to "native" produces like a 10MB thing for a 1MB Jar
<jdong> using 1+GB RAM in the process
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> sweet
<jdong> and I honestly CANT see the final thing any faster than the interpreted thing
<jdong> maybe 1.5x faster
<pwnguin> i doubt that
<jdong> but considering it was 100x slower than Sun to begin with?
<jdong> not a ground-breaking improvement
<pwnguin> so only 50x slower ;)
<jdong> and for the case of Azureus, unacceptable
<jdong> the hash checking process off a laptop hard drive should NEVER be CPU bound -- always IO bound
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i guess the set of java developers unioned with developers committed to free software was exclusive with those who actually know how to write code
<jdong> could be
<jdong> pwnguin: but Fedora also heavily customizes their GCJ chain
<jdong> pwnguin: I don't doubt that when Fedora compiled Auzreus with GCJ, it actually worked acceptably well
<jdong> pwnguin: I don't think we have the same manpower going into the Ubuntu GCJ stack -- that's all
<pwnguin> is there a smart way to go about finding patches in fedora?
<pwnguin> theres some host called koji that seems to host things, but its a bit unwiedly
<jdong> pwnguin: hmm I'm just unpacking srpm's
<jdong> they have patches well laid out similar to a debian/patches thing
<pwnguin> finding srpms alone is a challenge ;)
<jdong> pwnguin: look on a fedora mirror.
<jdong> I was just thinking, and everyone bear witness:
<jdong> If Azureus upstream ever becomes evil with the Vuze crap and Debian has to fork it, I want credit for naming it DartFrog
<jdong> :)
<jdong> that is all.
<ScottK> jdong: Are you going to send you updater patch to Debian in a bug?
<joeamined> hi
<jdong> ScottK: yeah, good idea. I'll have to *grumble* navigate their BTS
<joeamined> i'm a student in computer engineering and i'd like to contribute to ubuntu
<StevenK> Cheques can made payable to ....
 * StevenK hides
<ScottK> joeamined: Dive in and get to work.
<jdong> ScottK: okie dokie, submitted to Debian BTS
<ScottK> jdong: That's a good downstream.
<ScottK> pat, pat, pat.
<jdong> ScottK: lol :) if only their bug tracker was more friendly :)
<StevenK> Meh, debbugs isn't that bad.
 * ScottK likes it better than Launchpad.
<StevenK> It's better than Bugzilla
<ScottK> At least I don't have to wait an eternity everytime I click on something.
<pwnguin> joeamined: if you've got pet bugs, you could try fixing one
<ajmitch> bugzilla is great
<joeamined> yep
<jdong> StevenK: for one, I saw ZERO space shuttle graphics throughout the entire bug filing process.
 * ScottK thinks joeamined needs to fix his IRC client.
<ajmitch> jdong: that's unfortunate, perhaps you should sponsor a debian developer to visit the ISS
<StevenK> Hah, Thunderbird.
<StevenK> "Personal has 2 new messages", yet it shows four of them
<jdong> StevenK: it's thunderbird :)
<jdong> StevenK: more seriously it probably has the Seen flag marked by the client for some reason
<jdong> rather than just NEW
<StevenK> What I think happened is I didn't check the last time it appeared
<ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAY Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya ScottK
<imbrandon> man filtering join/parts really cuts down the traffic in here :)
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya imbrandon
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: indeed!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<jdong> whoo, got another success report on LP that my azureus package worked
<jcastro> jdong: are you coming to fosscamp/uds?
<jdong> jcastro: I'll be at UDS
<jcastro> cool
<imbrandon> along with all his crack :)
 * Hobbsee waves to jcastro
<jcastro> hi Hobbsee
<ajmitch> so far to swim...
<imbrandon> jcastro, i sent that email off
<jcastro> ajmitch: good thing there's the panama canal, otherwise you'd have to go the long way around
<jcastro> imbrandon: \m/
<imbrandon> lol
 * Hobbsee starts to wonder if compiz is *not* the battery life hog.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<imbrandon> night
<jdong> imbrandon: ha I've been clean for the past year or two, right? :)
<persia> good night scottk
<ajmitch> jcastro: yeah, I'm pretty glad about that, otherwise I'd have to leave last week :)
<ajmitch> jdong: you want an honest answer?
<jdong> ajmitch: uh oh :)
<imbrandon> jdong, lol , r u serouis ? hehe
<jdong> :) I love you guys too :P
<ajmitch> imbrandon: harsh
<imbrandon> :P
<ajmitch> jdong: we wuv you too, really
 * imbrandon watchs jdong rebuild the archive with -Os
 * ajmitch recalls fondly funroll-loops.org
 * imbrandon hugs jdong, but we still lub u
<ajmitch> and I think that someone revived that page from the depths of the internet
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hahah yea, i JUST seen that site the other day
<jcastro> ajmitch: I have the source somewhere.
<jdong> ajmitch: that was hilarious
<ajmitch> blame our canonical friend ;)
<jdong> ajmitch: and to think I used to be a gentoo user before coming to Ubuntu
<jcastro> ajmitch: although I can neither confirm nor deny my involvement
<ajmitch> jcastro: sure..
<jdong> so you guys have got to give me at least the Warty cycle to cool down :D
<jdong> and stop trying to port portage to Ubuntu
<ajmitch> jdong: warty?
<imbrandon> << .... >> ...... O_o
<jdong> ajmitch: ok fine it lasted a bit thru hoary too
<ajmitch> ah, breezy, dapper, edgy, feisty...
<jdong> yeah
<imbrandon> ummm i recall it all the way to edgy
<ajmitch> !jdong
<ubotu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<jcastro> is that apt-build thing still around?
<pwnguin> hahaha
<jdong> imbrandon: well backports was not integrated into the central archives until mid-breezy....
<imbrandon> :P
<nixternal> glad you think that is funny!
<nixternal> !visternal
<nixternal> that one is better though
<nixternal> when it works
<pwnguin> did you really rebuild the archive with -Os imbrandon?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, no
<StevenK> nixternal: We'll be wanting to collect at UDS...
<jdong> imbrandon: but I've been using same versioning, building, and QA'ing tactics since about halfway thru hoary :)
<pwnguin> aww
<jdong> imbrandon: and I did break a few flash plugins in edgy.... shhhhhhh :)
<nixternal> I will be over in the corner wearing my rPath and Foresight Linux T-shirts!!!
<nixternal> come find me :)
<jdong> pwnguin: I'd love to try it :)
<nixternal> if you find me, I will give you money!
<imbrandon> hah
<jcastro> nixternal: the glow in the dark green shirt?
<nixternal> that is one of them :)
<nixternal> although it doesn't glow all that well anymore
 * imbrandon hugs his kubuntu shirts
<imbrandon> and hat
<nixternal> I wear shirts that I get for freeeeeeeee
<nixternal> so far Fedora, Debian, openSUSE, and Foresight have all obliged with kindness :)
<nixternal> my Kubuntu shirt I bought off of Cafepress now says K   n u
<jdong> nixternal: aww I want a green suse shirt :)
 * imbrandon hands nix a Windows Vista T
<ajmitch> someone please buy this man a vista shirt
<nixternal> I have a Bad Vista t-shirt, that is enough
<nixternal> and my GPLv3 t-shirt that loves to start drama
<elkbuntu> bad ajmitch, BAD!
<pwnguin> jdong: i wonder how hard it would be. ive seen a few packages with a debug and relase pairing of build rules
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: why, it's nixternal?
<nixternal> I got a couple of Ubuntu shirts, but I gave them away
<jdong> pwnguin: I'd just wrap gcc at the /usr/bin/gcc level and forget screwing with each package
<nixternal> why send shirts for a boy to a grown ass man?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, yes, precisely. isnt he enough on his own?
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: good to see you around as well :)
 * elkbuntu runs from nixternal
<jdong> pwnguin: just filter out all the other -O flags and replace with -Os
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> sounds good
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, well yeah, they fired me yesterday, so now i got unexpected time on my hands
<jdong> and that's probably why I'm the resident crackpot :)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: *ouch*
<StevenK> elkbuntu: :-(
<imbrandon> :(
<jdong> :(
<elkbuntu> im a terrible arse kisser apparantly
<ajmitch> I can imagine
<jdong> elkbuntu: practice makes perfect?
<nixternal> imbrandon: I found out today that my future in any kind of MMA is not feasible...I got cage time at the gym and went against a guy, 75 lbs. lighter, but he was a muay thai guy...lets just say, I couldn't grab him, as he was punching and kicking faster than I could blink
<elkbuntu> i blame it all on the open source community
 * jdong ducks
 * imbrandon gets back to the fatx patch
 * jdong would like to blame his C+ in differential equations on that too
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, i made the mistake of answering a question asked by an interim trainer honestly, and she took it as a personal attack on the normal trainer, and dobbed, and the rest is history
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: you speak your mind far too freely?
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, basically
<ajmitch> fun
<jcastro> nixternal: you could always drop kick people at LoCo meetings and such.
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> where to from here?
<pwnguin> jdong: i was thinking it might be possible to set a default CFLAGS, but id have to reveiw a few packages to see if they add or replace CFLAGS
<jdong> pwnguin: well packages who seriously need certain cflags tend to set it themselves
<nixternal> jcastro: I almost had to do that yesterday at the LoCo/Release Party/Install Fest/Soon to be a cage match
<elkbuntu> i havent told the folks yet, they were burying granddad yesterday and i didnt think it would be an appropriate time. i'm saving the 'you fail at life' lecture for this evening
<pwnguin> jdong: right, but they can either do = or +=
<ajmitch> ugh
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Double :-(
<StevenK> elkbuntu: I've been fired once, it isn't fun. :-(
<imbrandon> pwnguin, depends on the package
 * persia notes that nearly every package using automake sets cflags, and that *lots* of the C programs in Ubuntu use automake
<jcastro> elkbuntu: condolences
<elkbuntu> StevenK, well, all i could say was 'if you had have told me this an hour earlier, i could have made it to my grandfather's funeral'... the expression on their faces was priceless
<pwnguin> in that case, replacing gcc would probably be the way to go ;)
<lifeless> elkbuntu: :(
<elkbuntu> jcastro, thanks :) good to see you back with us again :)
<imbrandon> tis whats done when you use distcc in a pbuilder
<StevenK> elkbuntu: I'll bet.
<jcastro> elkbuntu: :D
<imbrandon> autoreconf -i
<imbrandon> err
<ajmitch> jcastro: and now you're stuck with us
<elkbuntu> so i now have like 3 or so weeks to find a new job before i run out of monies
<jcastro> ajmitch: heh, the joke's on you!
<ajmitch> jcastro: "oh god, make the pain stop!" sort of joke?
<jcastro> heh
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: I hope you manage to get something sorted out asap, I know it's not easy there
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Surveys say that compiz has approximately no impact on power usage.  Look elsewhere for your poor battery life :P
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, heh, i spent yesterday pounding pavement, and ended up mildly dehydrated... i should probably head off and compound it now eh :P. cyas
<lifeless> elkbuntu: good luck.
<lifeless> elkbuntu: and don't think of indian takeaway
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: bye, and good luck
<Hobbsee> RAOF: which means somewhere in gnome.  any pointers on where to look?
<pwnguin> powertop?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: looked there.  nothing overly out of the ordinary.
<pwnguin> depends on your definition of ordinary
<Hobbsee> like, nothing that wasnt there under kubuntu too
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> for simple diagnostics
<pwnguin> i have a gnome panel applet
<pwnguin> that monitors CPU and network load
<Hobbsee> the load's not that high.  it's just my battery live getting nuked.
<Hobbsee> and i'm unsure as to why
<pwnguin> as reported by what?
<Hobbsee> htop and the like
<Hobbsee> (comparing this to kubuntu, so the kernel and all that should be the same)
<pwnguin> im sorry, i meant, battery life as reported by what?
<Hobbsee> erm.  gnome power manager, i think it is
<Hobbsee> acpi -V
<Hobbsee> (as well)
<jcastro> Hobbsee: tracker or beagle indexing away perhaps?
<pwnguin> if they were, they'd show up
<Hobbsee> jcastro: purged tracker.
<Hobbsee> no beagle installed either
<pwnguin> the problem is, and i should really file a bug on this, iowait on multiload applet is indistinguishable from black (it's slightly blue)
<pwnguin> i usually turn it to yellow
<pwnguin> as iowait basically means disk access not cpu hunger
<lifeless> OTOH disk == power
<pwnguin> sure
<pwnguin> but when you want to know what the problem is
<jdong> Hobbsee: gnome-power-manager does that weird logarithmic-profiling estimation thing
<jdong> Hobbsee: it doesn't listen to ACPI estimates
<pwnguin> iowait gives you a hint
<jdong> and tacker should not index on battery either
<jdong> Hobbsee: oh silly me, I should've read your scrollback
<jdong> hit me.
 * StevenK deals jdong a card
<jdong> :)
<pwnguin> its possible the battery is simply aging
<jdong> pwnguin: I think it's a feature that iowait blends in
<pwnguin> jdong: a stupid feature
<jdong> pwnguin: otherwise people would look at it and say ZOMG MY CPU IS LOADED!!!11111
<pwnguin> which is why i make it yellow
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: sure, but in that case, why did it drop around 40 mins in a week?
<jdong> pwnguin: I oddly make it yellow too
<Hobbsee> when switching DE's?
<pwnguin> heh
<jdong> Hobbsee: ok, can you install acpitool?
<jdong> Hobbsee: then under KDE, run acpitool -B a few times, do the same under GNOME, and look at the discharge rate being reported
<jdong> determine if they are actuallly different between GNOME and KDE
<jdong> if so, then we've got an actual problem at our hands
<Hobbsee>     Remaining capacity : 1694 mAh, 52.24%, 01:13:01
<Hobbsee>     Design capacity    : 4800 mAh
<Hobbsee>     Last full capacity : 3243 mAh, 67.56% of design capacity
<Hobbsee>     Capacity loss      : 32.44%
<Hobbsee> sheesh!
<jdong> 23:53 < Hobbsee>     Last full capacity : 3243 mAh, 67.56% of design capacity
<jdong> EEW
<Hobbsee> yeah...
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> if thats accuate
<pwnguin> we have an answer
<Hobbsee> jdong: that'll require booting to kde.
 * jdong does a calculation
<imbrandon> time for a new battery
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: seems so.
<pwnguin> battery life falls off steeply
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: yeah, but not by a *week*
<pwnguin> sure by a week in the last stages
<jdong> 1694*(1+13/60)
<jdong> 2061.03333333333333332204
<Hobbsee> and not when the recent preceeding weeks ahd no visible drop off.
<jdong> 2061mA drain if ACPI time accurate is correct
<jdong> Hobbsee: what kind of CPU and video card, what level of display brightness?
<pwnguin> acpi time isnt accurate at the start
<pwnguin> give it a few minutes of running on battery
<jdong> pwnguin: it represents correct for the current battery discharge rate
<jdong> pwnguin: and spikes of 2061mA are suspicious
<jdong> unless she's got a dedicated GPU of some sort
<pwnguin> i think hobbsee was telling me to buy intel
<jdong> my macbook usually draws 1300 idle, 2000 under firefox rendering loads
<imbrandon> ok guys ........
<imbrandon> [22:52] <imbrandon> anyone know why i would get this .... debian/scripts/misc/oldconfig: line 66: /home/brandon/files/xbox/kernel/ubuntu-image/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/debian/scripts/misc/splitconfig.pl: Permission denied
<imbrandon> [22:52] <imbrandon> when running the updateconfigs
<imbrandon> [22:53] <imbrandon> *debian/rules updateconfigs
<imbrandon> [22:55] <imbrandon> ( and yea i ran it with sudo fwiw )
<pwnguin> Present rate       : 20808 mW
<jdong> imbrandon: script not chmodded +x?
<jdong> the .pl thing
<jdong> pwnguin: divide that by approximately 11.7 volts?
<imbrandon> no idea
<jdong> 1778.46153846153846153846
<jdong> mA
 * jdong checks that W/V = A
<ajmitch>     Remaining capacity : 3076 mAh, 100.0%
<ajmitch>     Design capacity    : 4400 mAh
<ajmitch>     Last full capacity : 3076 mAh, 69.91% of design capacity
<ajmitch>     Capacity loss      : 30.09%
<ajmitch> awesome
<jdong> yes it is
<jdong>     Remaining capacity : 4546 mAh, 100.0%
<jdong>     Design capacity    : 4800 mAh
<jdong>     Last full capacity : 4546 mAh, 94.71% of design capacity
<jdong> recalled battery FTW!
 * ajmitch has had this laptop for >18 months now
<jdong> ajmitch: that's very impressive, and you probalby use it a lot too
<ajmitch> yeah
<pwnguin> why is my output so different?
<ajmitch> so I don't think it's doing *too* badly yet
<pwnguin>    Remaining capacity : 38193 mWh, 100.0%, 02:09:17
<pwnguin>     Design capacity    : 50760 mWh
<pwnguin>     Last full capacity : 37141 mWh, 73.17% of design capacity
<jdong> pwnguin: batteries report in different units
<pwnguin> fun
<jdong> pwnguin: technically mWh is a proper unit of power consumption rate
<jdong> pwnguin: while mAh is a unit of current * time = net current flow
<jdong> pwnguin: but we can assume the voltage of a laptop battery to be the standard 11.7-12.0
<lifeless> we can? why?
<pwnguin> heh
<jdong> lifeless: aren't most common laptops using cells around that voltage?
<pwnguin> you have a point
<mbt> Has anyone here setup a buildd for managing a small collection of packages?  Or perhaps an easier, more efficient auto-build system?
<lifeless> jdong: I'm thinking of MID's
<pwnguin> gnome reports the voltage at 11.3ish
<jdong> lifeless: ok, those are probably very different :)
<jdong> but I haven't seen many fullsized laptops with batteries not around 12V
<pwnguin> is 11.25 "around 12?"
<jdong> pwnguin: design voltage is around 12 :)
<jdong> pwnguin: what it is when capacity is at 60%, I don't know :)
<pwnguin> the ac adaptor claims to output 15V
<jdong> pwnguin: well that goes through several DC-DC converters before entering the charging circuit
<pwnguin> perhaps
<pwnguin> my external battery says 10.8 DC
<jdong> pwnguin: where does that plug into?
<pwnguin> underneath
<pwnguin> my main battery also says 10.8
<jdong> ok, then around 11V :)
<jdong> 10.8 / 3.6 = 3
<jdong> I guess that's a 6-cell?
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> they're both 6 cells
<jdong> makes sense then
 * ajmitch should get a new laptop :)
<pwnguin> anyways
<pwnguin> g-p-m has an annoying habit of blacking the screen instead of turning the light off
<jdong> everyone should get a new laptop! whee!
<pwnguin> which saves like nothing in power
<jdong> pwnguin: that sucks
<pwnguin> its not so bad
<pwnguin> if i leave the laptop unattended, it's usually on power
<pwnguin> and if i close the lid, it does turn the light off
<jdong> pwnguin: that's good... I have to travel for the day with my laptop and charge when I get ack from classes
<jdong> so I need decent battery life
<imbrandon> unattended powered on laptop ? woot, and does this have your ~/.gnupg dir on it ? hehe
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> im talking like
<pwnguin> in my bedroom
<imbrandon> heh i'm just messin with ya
<pwnguin> while im eating a sandwich in the kitchen
<ajmitch> imbrandon could be like a redneck ninja & stealth into your bedroom, you know
<jdong> imbrandon: security question, is it easy to decrypt the secret key when you have someone's ~/.gpg?
<jdong> imbrandon: I would imagine that'd be a time-consuming process too
<imbrandon> depends on the passphrase
<StevenK> jdong: For all practical purposes, no. It's usually safer to be paranoid and revoke the key
<imbrandon> persia claims a 40bit pass can be dont in 16 hours with normal moden PC
<pwnguin> but you could nab my ssh keys
<jdong> imbrandon: isn't the passphrase also key-hardened?
<imbrandon> done*
<pwnguin> what
<pwnguin> at some point, you have to stop typing in passwords
<StevenK> imbrandon: "40 bit pass" ?
<jdong> imbrandon: specific to gnupg or in general?
<imbrandon> jdong, he was talking in general, StevenK probably ment 40-bit length
<imbrandon> not sure
<pwnguin> well
<jdong> imbrandon: I would expect a strengthened key to take longer to crack, even 5-char passwords
<pwnguin> thats assuming the old rc challenges were equiv to one modern pc
<pwnguin> crack.net broke a 40 in like 16 hours
<StevenK> Hrm. My battery says "67.18%" too
<jdong> yeah, GnuPG does use key-strengthening
<jdong> so I'd bet that even in posession of a private key, without knowing the passphrase it's basically a dead end
<jdong> unless you're the magnitude of a government
<jdong> then anything's possible :)
<imbrandon> jdong, even if the passphrase isnt guessed, the key is still considered compromised though was my point ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: a symmetrically encrypted copy of the key is compromised
<jdong> imbrandon: but if you had a passphrase-locked encrypted hard drive that was lost, would you consider the data compromised?
 * imbrandon gives up
<jdong> imbrandon: no no, I'm just trying to understand what you consider to be compromised
<imbrandon> i'd have to hunt the debian doc i was reading way back
<imbrandon> is what i was going from
<pwnguin> i imagine the launchpad peoples would be better able to answer the question of security
<jdong> all I'm saying is..... When people symmetrically encrypt their hard drives with dm-crypt and such, they consider their data to be safe even when their disk is lost
<jdong> but when people lose their ~/.gnupg, the sky is falling and hell is freezing over
<jdong> I fail to understand what's different between the two
<pwnguin> key length?
<jdong> pwnguin: I doubt people set bootup passwords to be nearly as long as a gnupg passphrase
<pwnguin> i imagine the kind of person with a bootup password would
<jdong> pwnguin: takes me nearly 20 seconds to type in my gnupg passphrase, wouldn't want to do that at boot :)
<pwnguin> jebus
<imbrandon> jdong, i see your point but i have no awnser , nor would i care to speculate
<jdong> imbrandon: understood :)
<imbrandon> 20 seconds? fck
<jdong> imbrandon: it's a 25-character fairly random thing
<pwnguin> does that make it more secure?
<jdong> I just stuck like 4 pwgen passwords together
<pwnguin> it gets hashed i thought
<jdong> pwnguin: in a way, yes.....
<imbrandon> K2r0L7x9 ??
<ajmitch> pwnguin: it's there to impress the MIT ladies who he hangs round ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> pwnguin: if you are brute forcing a strengthened key, I'd argue that whether it's 5 chars or 100, it makes little difference
<jdong> pwnguin: but if you are sitting next to me and I'm typing my passphrase, it makes a world of difference
<pwnguin> i have no clue what a "strengthened" key is
<jdong> pwnguin: hash the passphrase 100,000 times
<jdong> pwnguin: so it takes like 1 second to guess each passphrase
<jdong> pwnguin: makes brute forcing pretty impossible :)
<pwnguin> no it doesnt
<jdong> pwnguin: it's a serious deterrent
<pwnguin> 0
<pwnguin> 1
<pwnguin> 2, 3, 4, 5 etc
<jdong> pwnguin: each takes 100,000 times longer to try
<pwnguin> they no longer correspond to meaningful passwords, but who cares?
<imbrandon> to match the end hash ? why
<jdong> pwnguin: a 5-char strenthened key would take the same time to brute force as a 500,000 char unstrengthened one
<pwnguin> jdong: only if you bother trying 1 char hased pwds, then 2, and so on
<jdong> pwnguin: well it amplifies the bitlength of your hash, regardless of your actual passphrase
<jdong> pwnguin: so yes, if you are stepping through possible values of the key, it doesn't "make a difference"
<jdong> but even like a 2-char password is like a 1024-bit or whatever key
<jdong> it is a letdown to brute-forcers :)
<pwnguin> assuming gpg doesnt truncate it
<pwnguin> its not though
<pwnguin> its a let down to dictionary attacks
<pwnguin> and MAYBE brute force attacks starting from short passwords
<pwnguin> the point brandon brought up was that the distributed rsa cracking broke a 40bit key in like less than a day (they got lucky, mostly)
<jdong> pwnguin: well it surely makes 2-char passphrases just as hard to crack as 10-char ones
<jdong> pwnguin: and I guess that was my ultimate point, you will have to search over the entire length of the key, regardless of the strength of your passphrase
<imbrandon> snap, what have i done
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> pwnguin: which in the case of GPG I'm betting governments aside people don't have the resources to do it
<imbrandon> skynet
<imbrandon> lol
<jdong> :D
<jdong> oh well, I'll go elsewhere hunting for answers to this
<pwnguin> well, go look up how big a gpg passphrase is
<imbrandon> that and getting time on a sun grid computer isnt tough
<pwnguin> as far as when to revoke keys
<pwnguin> thats a policy thing
<pwnguin> no book can really prove your key secure
<jdong> iter+salt S2K, algo: 3, SHA1 protection, hash: 2, salt: ...
<jdong> so it's SHA1 iterated 2000 times?
<jdong> I think?
<imbrandon> my passphrase is "killbill" :)
 * imbrandon lol's
<imbrandon> wonder how many people DO use dictionary passwords though
<pwnguin> http://bash.org/?691
<jdong> imbrandon: I bet a lot
<ajmitch> p4ssw0rd
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> psh security smurity
<pwnguin> i use a fingerprint reader to log in
<jdong> hahahaha
<jdong> I don't understand why fingerprint readers are a good idea
<pwnguin> because it's easier than typing in a password when you dont have a keyboard handy
<jdong> why not authenticate with skin flakes, dirty socks, hair (for aging men), or any of the other things we leave around everywhere we go??
<pwnguin> they're basically not
<jdong> that's what I thought....
<imbrandon> dna?
<jdong> I thought the point of a authentication key was to use something that is idnetifiable to you, but others would not be able to obtain :)
<pwnguin> imbrandon: what about my identical evil twin!?!
<jdong> imbrandon: that would be a sucky ID too :)
<StevenK> I thought identical twins had different fingerprints?
<pwnguin> its a bit harder than you'd think to recover a fingerpritn
<imbrandon> yea but it was kinda funny in judge dred
<pwnguin> StevenK: but very similar dna :P
<StevenK> imbrandon: I've not seen that.
<imbrandon> pwnguin, but easier than you think to use it once you get it, photocopy your finger and use it on the scanner if you have the toshiba type
<imbrandon> it WORKS heh
<pwnguin> i do
<pwnguin> i'll try that
<imbrandon> StevenK, futureistic movie where the cops ( judges ) had guns that when fired put a "dna" stamp on the bullet so they would know who killed who
<imbrandon> pwnguin, my little bro has one, a photocopy works 80% or more of the time on his
<pwnguin> but most serious people suggest using fingerprints in two part auithentication
<StevenK> imbrandon: Oh, I know the title, I've just not seen the movie
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> kinda corny, but its ok, better than some stuff
<StevenK> Seems a bit like Fortress
<StevenK> (Not in plot or storyline, but general feel)
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> not seen that one
<imbrandon> man i need a new computer chair, this one sucks to sit at long peroids
<StevenK> Oh that's right, Christopher Lambert is the main guy
<imbrandon> mmmm lazyboy recliner with a arm tray for a external mouse and a macbook pro, mmmmmmmm
<CarlFK> Where is the place to log suggestions?  (synaptic - in addition to "import key from file" add "dl key from url")
<imbrandon> CarlFK, wiki/IdeaPool
<CarlFK> thanks
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> i should have timed this build
<imbrandon> its takin forever
<imbrandon> all so i dont have to install windows
<mneptok> the robs are multiplying
<Hobbsee> as long as it's not hte mneptoks multiplying...
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> what a disturbing thought
<imbrandon> perhaps #ubuntu-classroom should be muted untill the talks
 * Hobbsee composes a mail to the MOTU mailing list.
<white> Hobbsee: I'll come to sydney btw :)
<Hobbsee> white: woot!
<white> a bit offtopic, but it just came into my mind :)
<white> Hobbsee: i'll travel around a bit, when I come back from Germany :)
<Hobbsee> :D
<white> Hobbsee: I will be in sydney around the 7th of January
 * Hobbsee rereads this, hits send.
 * Hobbsee waits for the fur to fly
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ^
<Hobbsee> right.  mail send.
<Hobbsee> s/send/sent/
<nixternal> I don't think I will ever upload again... Hobbsee you scared me from even uploading to my PPA :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: :)
 * Hobbsee hugs nixternal
<nixternal> hehe
<Hobbsee> nixternal: just test first.  it's not that hard.
<Hobbsee> besides, for ppa's, people expect breakage, to some degree.
<nixternal> I test everything, and then I use #ubuntu-chicago as my guinnea pigs
<Hobbsee> then you're fine :
<Hobbsee> * :)
<nixternal> ya, but they aren't
<nixternal> muhahahaha
<Hobbsee> nixternal: haha
<nixternal> suckahs fall for my rootkitted amarok2 packages all day long :D
<Hobbsee> nixternal: really, we're not going to kill you for not finding a corner case.  but to not test it at *all*....
<nixternal> oh, I totally understand...I want to make core-dev this next cycle, so I am a test-a-holic
<Hobbsee> nixternal: :)
<pkern> Nightrose: Nothing yet.
<dholbach> good morning
<ion_> Hi
<ion_> Could someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=298 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=299? Thanks.
<Hobbsee> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i havent quit motu yet.
<Hobbsee> but at this point, i'm starting to ponder doing all my merges now, incase i do.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: having everything merged early is a good thing, but what has that to do with quitting MOTU?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: have you seen the MOTU mailing list yet?
<dholbach> which message are you referring to?
<Hobbsee> gnumed-client SRU
<dholbach> I hadn't read that
 * elkbuntu notes that pounding footpaths is quick becoming a really ineffective way of looking for work
<dholbach> I agree that we should emphasize the testing part of it
<Hobbsee> dholbach: frankly, I cant see the point of being part of something that the people involved dont care about at all.  If our MOTUs don't care at all about QA, and prove that they don't, then the project is worthless.  It's intended to be helpful to our users - not to break our systems by throwing untested crap in there.  If it's a garbage dump of a whole bunch of stuff that might work, then I really can't see the point of being involved - nor
<Hobbsee> why I might want to be affiliated with it.
<Hobbsee> s/our/their/
<Hobbsee> It would be better to go to somewhere like debian, where at least the Maintainers actually *care* about what they upload, and their users.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: can you tell me how many uploads are untested or screw the systems?
<superm1> ion_, i looked over 298.  Looks good to me.
<superm1> hi everyone
<dholbach> hi superm1
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the one listed in that mail, the fiasco with audacious plugins.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I agree with you: we need to do more testing, but I really think you're exaggerating
<dholbach> it's not that MOTU is an uncontrollable bunch of people who upload *random* crack
<dholbach> really
<ion_> superm1: Thanks
<Hobbsee> looking at the sponsorship queue a couple of days ago, it looks like more were broken.
<dholbach> you're not doing the team justics
<dholbach> justice
<superm1> dholbach, well except for jdong and RAOF and they're crack filled packages :)
<Hobbsee> upstream fix to a stable release with no testing at all is crack.
<dholbach> I wouldn't be that quick to judge on the whole team and the myriads of uploads we did and fixes we developed
<Hobbsee> no, but a team is only as good as it's weakest link.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: please calm down
<Hobbsee> in the case of QA>
<dholbach> geser is not the weakest link
<Hobbsee> i'm perfectly calm...
<Hobbsee> dholbach: disappointed, yes.  but completely calm.
<dholbach> instead of yelling at people or considering to leave the team it'd make more sense to find out what we can do to improve our QA
<Hobbsee> that's only worht attempting to do if you can get the high ups to actually implement it.
 * imbrandon blinks
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<superm1> ion_, regarding 299, you list two different bzr branches in debian/copyright and debian/control
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<superm1> ion_, is that intentional?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: we should discuss this instead of asking for policies how to deal with such people
<dholbach> Hobbsee: as a team we'll find a way
<Hobbsee> dholbach: my main problem with that is that such discussions usually turn out to be bikeshedding, or lost in the space of time, and nothing ever gets decided.
<ion_> superm1: The branch in debian/control contains the packaging; the branch in debian/copyright contains the actual software.
<superm1> ion_, ah okay.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm not going to accept that argument - if it were true we could stop all kinds of discussions
<dholbach> if you're not interested in helping to find a measure, that's fine
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i am, at least somewhat, but the question si more if i have the confidence that the decision will be reached?
<dholbach> if you're not sure you want to, leave it, that's fine
<Hobbsee> dholbach: what do *you* think we should do about our QA?
<Hobbsee> particularly if we cant trust some of our MOTU's to DTRT
<dholbach> let's discuss this rationally on the mailing list
<dholbach> we CAN trust
<dholbach> our processes are all based on trust
<dholbach> I'll follow up on the mailing list
<dholbach> Hobbsee: can we have a call about that?
<Hobbsee> it seems that we trust people to DTRT, even if they obviously don't.  perhaps that works, perhaps that doesn't.  there's a very real risk of burying our proverbial heads in the sand, that way.
<dholbach> geser did a mistake
<dholbach> "all is lost" is not really where we're standing now
<StevenK> Who said anything about that?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: about which?
<StevenK> I also didn't read that from Hobbsee's mail.
<dholbach> StevenK: "we cant trust some of our MOTU's to DTRT"
<elkbuntu> StevenK, the tone of the conversation
<dholbach> that's not where we're standing at
<dholbach> we can improve the SRU documentation, we can talk to individuals, we can make changes in the process of educating new MOTUs or come up with other ideas to raise awareness
<dholbach> I believe that calling for sanctions or policies "how to deal with people who did wrong" is not going to help
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm not meaning to convey an "all is lost" attitude here.  What i'm now pondering is whether I want to still be involved, based on what the MOTU attitudes seem to have changed to.
<superm1> ion_, +1 on 299 also.  great work :)
<dholbach> to you it seems that "all is lost"
<ion_> superm1: Thanks again. :-)
<dholbach> geser did a mistake, I haven't talked to him yet, he should have tested it
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm also wondering why the attitudes have changed, and whether the MOTU's are happy with them having changed.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: but viewing this as "the change in attitude MOTUs have gone through" is the wrong perception
<Hobbsee> dholbach: why?
<dholbach> because 1 person did 1 mistake
<dholbach> we always had broken uploads in a while
<dholbach> or somebody who took testing not seriously enough
<dholbach> but calling the whole system broken because of that, is going too far
<dholbach> geser is doing a very good job elsewhere
<dholbach> but I, too, would have preferred it if this hadn't happened
<Hobbsee> dholbach: granted, he does not speak for everyone.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: but i'm surprised that *any* of our MOTU's did this.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, why... they are still human, are they not?
<dholbach> it has happened before and it will happen again
<Hobbsee> i think that whether the system is broken, or people's level of apathy are different issues.
<dholbach> but I trust our people, especially I trust them to learn and to fix their mistakes
<dholbach> the system is not broken
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: no, they all turned into green aliens :P
<Hobbsee> dholbach: indeed.  but people's level of apathy, on not calling them on their errors, may well be.
<dholbach> I don't think that's what's happening
<dholbach> I told you yesterday, that replying to the upload mail is what people have done in the past and still do
<dholbach> it's happening
<dholbach> we don't need a punishment policy
<Hobbsee> dholbach: to make this clear, i'm *not* bitching about the fact that a possible regresison wasnt picked up.  I'm bitching over the fact that a guy willfully did not test at all - which i'm unsure if that classes as a "mistake"
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah, because people came to me, and asked me what should be done about it, and i told them to reply to the upload mail to the MOTU ML>
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, error in judgement is still an error
<dholbach> Hobbsee: bitching does not help
<dholbach> please try to think about this in a rational way
<jake123> hello. i know i'm totally in the wrong room, but i'm new to irc and trying to join #python but it says i need to be identified, even though i've set up a screen name and password. can anyone help? i know this has to be a stupid question, so forgive me
<nixternal> !register > jake123
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i am.  if i werent, i'd be going on a witch-hunt about geser :P
<Hobbsee> jake123: /msg nickserv identify jake123 <yourfreenodepassword>
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You get the flaming torches, and I'll get the pitchfo ... Ohhh
<StevenK> :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<dholbach> we have different notions of bitching then
<Hobbsee> dholbach: oh, indeed.  i don't think i used the right word there.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, forgive me for saying this, but the impression you've managed to give *is* one of a witch-hunt
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: granted.  i'm attempting for this to be more general, but i've not seemed to have suceeded.
<TheMuso> dholbach: To me, its not about making our processes better. You can tell people to do anything. Whether they will or not, or more to the point, whether they think about whether they should do something or not, and then whether they will or not, is another story.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: which is why i'm trying not to mention geser by name, etc.
<jake123> it doesn't seem to be doing anythign. what am i doing wrong guys?
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: (because others also did this close to release, and i havent mentioned them by name either)
<TheMuso> We NEED to make sure that any update to a stable release must be tested, no questions asked.
<Hobbsee> jake123: chekc your server window?
<dholbach> let's make this a rational thread on the mailing list
<imbrandon> jake123, the people in #freenode could probably help you more, thats the official help channel
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i dont doubt that, nor the seriousness, but i agree with dholbach that this discussion is not going to achieve anything other than a dip in team morale
<jake123> ok sry to bother u guys
<imbrandon> np
<persia> I'd like to suggest that even a rational discussion on the mailing list won't help much either: the policies have already been established.  If there is truly a cultural issue (apathy or inattention to process), that is best solved through repeated examples of best practice here, rather than another announcement about the right way to do things.
<dholbach> we can highlight things in the documentation, we can talk to people, we can do repeated announcements and other things
 * ajmitch reads scrollback & the motu mailing list
<ajmitch> oh my
<nixternal> lions, and tiger, and bears!
<nixternal> s/tiger/tigers
<TheMuso> dholbach: That does exactly nothing to get the message accross that testing is needed, IMO.
<dholbach> but suggesting that "we can not trust" really hurts me, because I think that it's the core of our culture here
<dholbach> TheMuso: suggestions?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Not currently, but it is something I am certainly giving thought to.
<dholbach> thanks a lot for that TheMuso
<nixternal> I don't believe in common sense, I think it is a myth...but one would have to error not only on the side of caution but use common sense by instinct I would think when it comes to SRUs
<nixternal> amarok2 is almost done building w/o any cmake link errors, so nevermind my giddiness :)
<Burgundavia> oh joy
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> nixternal, nice
<imbrandon> heya Burgundavia
<nixternal> makeobj[0]: Leaving directory `/home/kde-devel/kde/build/KDE/extragear/multimedia/amarok'
<nixternal> that means it worked...
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: why the oh joy?
<imbrandon> nixternal, got it packaged ?
<Burgundavia> the previous discussion, ajmitch
<nixternal> <unknown program name>(23590)/: KUniqueApplication: Cannot find the D-Bus session server
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: ah, the excitement
<nixternal> and that means I need to boot back into kde4 :)
<nixternal> imbrandon: we already have it packaged in the repos
<Hobbsee> persia: that was basically what i was thinking.
 * dholbach gets some coffee
 * imbrandon gets some Mt. Dew
<ajmitch> dholbach: you'll need it :)
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: does the MOTU council not have something in place for dealing with issues of a packager not following QA
<Burgundavia> ?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it hasn't been needed
<Burgundavia> ok
<StevenK> And from what dholbach says, isn't needed.
<persia> Hobbsee: While I agree with much of your sentiment, I can't also agree with your methods.
<imbrandon> that and to what level do you hold the QA? it dosent degfault? not every bug ( or any bug ) will be caught in QA
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: nope.  there were vague discussions about it at UDS, but nothing ever came of them.  This si one of the great problems with MOTU - unpopular decisions tend to get put off, and dont get done.
<nixternal> just hurry up and get the toolchain rolling...I have a list of merges here that will put the Sears Tower to shame
 * ajmitch has no outstanding universe merges
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: it is not a problme just with MOTU, fear not
<Burgundavia> now, the issue at hand is that something went to -proposed without a test by the uploader, yes?
<nixternal> someone warned me of a Tellico merge the other night
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: oh, indeed.
<persia> Burgundavia: More generally, there are no control mechanisms at all.  In many ways, that is nice, because it makes it easy to do things.
<ajmitch> part of the 'problem' is probably that we run fairly loosely
<nixternal> this cycle I have to get libhttp into debian as another name under the embedded project, sync it to Ubuntu, and hack the hell out of Plucker...which has been dead for a while, but people live by it it seems
<persia> imbrandon: builds, installs, runs, addresses known issue, exits cleanly, removes, purges is a good minimum.
<Burgundavia> correct me if I am wrong, but an upload to proposed without testing is an issue, but it was not as if it went to gutsy live
 * Hobbsee notes that a pbuilder hook will test most of them.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: indeed.  but it's still rather worrying
<imbrandon> whoa hold on, this is for an upload to -proposed ? thats where the testing is SUPOSE to happen
 * imbrandon looks perplexed
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, but you'd generally expect at least a minimum of testing before it gets there
<Burgundavia> from an outsiders perspective, if a package installs/uninstalls cleanly and starts, that is the only testing that needs to happen before it goes to -proposed
<imbrandon> ajmitch, mimimum means many diffrent things, to me a patch that applies cleanly and it builds and installs is minimum
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, exactly
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hopefully upgrades too
<dholbach> StevenK: that's not what I said
<ajmitch> imbrandon: ok, how about "appears to fix the problem"
<dholbach> StevenK: I said a couple of times that we can talk to people
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, heh yea but thats just a versioning issue, and sometimes those are tricky
<ajmitch> given that MOTUs can't test everything, and may not be affected at all by the bug
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: the worrying part there is how many people are using -proposed as part of their regular reposet, so it seems we do need some QA in there at all
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: granted.
<persia> imbrandon: Testing does happen in -proposed, but an upload to proposed should receive the same level or pre-upload QA as any other upload.
<nixternal> for instance, think of the smb4k bug where the dev patched it, it got uploaded into proposed, pushed into stable, and I ended up finding out the patch totally wipes out /etc/sudoers
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: if somebody uses proposed as part of their reposet, that is an issues
<nixternal> so there definitely needs to be testing
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: we should make it so that the GUI tools warn if you try and install from -proposed
<Burgundavia> other than that, it is not a major issue that I can see
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: it says "pre-released updates"
<imbrandon> nixternal, thats just a failed system then because it should have been well tested by multi people before uplaoding to stable
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: does it pop up a warning on the update manager. The only people I can see being bitten by this are people who have added it accidentally or for another package
<nixternal> that ended up being my first security fix, and the dev praised myself and kees for finding it and fixing it
<nixternal> it twas a mess for sure
<StevenK> I'd expect the uploader (and the bug fixer, if they aren't the same person) to have tested the package builds, installs, upgrades and has no regressions before it is uploaded.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: it lists them as "proposed", but doesnt give a very big warning about it or anything, no.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: the trouble with warnings is that people tend to ignore them.
<imbrandon> so basicly this is breaking down to "where is the checklist that i NEED to do before i upload" i know there are unsaid ones but i mean a well defined one, if there isnt, thats the first step and nothing else can be done past that
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: that is a bug that needs to be filed
<nixternal> it could have easily gone through a install/uninstall, run, shutdown like I keep seeing...that type of testing won't catch it...you would have to actually use it for about 15 minutes playing around with settings first
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: good point.  i only started using it < a week ago
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, then fix the root of the problem, warn people not to use proposed except to test
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: however, the issue is thus: I think MOTU needs a small checklist of things to do before the updater pushes to -proposed
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's a decent idea.  i thought we actualyl had a checklist.
<nixternal> I would think the only ones using proposed are those with experience anyways...I don't use proposed, and I know many who don't as well
<ajmitch> nixternal: people see shiny, new stuff
<imbrandon> yea we cant bitch about something not being done if its not written policy to be done
<nixternal> so warning someone that it is dangerous that already know it is dangerous is like telling me that cigars is bad for my health
<nxvl> imbrandon: can u helping me with th merge i'm doing?
<imbrandon> nxvl, i can try, you will have much more luck asking specific questions in here and we'll all try our best to point you in the right way
 * Hobbsee would expect checking it to ensure it runs would be helpful
<imbrandon> nixternal, fire will burn you
<nxvl> imbrandon: ok, let's do so
<nixternal> ya, so will the devil when I meet him one day
<StevenK> Burgundavia: I really like that idea.
<Hobbsee> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<imbrandon> StevenK, i said it first , hahahahah just playing
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, speaking of, how ya been ltns
<Burgundavia> school has been kicking my ass
<TheMuso> I also think it wouldn't hurt having a easily findable list of the upgrade paths we support.
<Burgundavia> got two midterms this week that were re-re-scheduled at the last minute
<imbrandon> TheMuso, true , afaik its only release to next release and LTS to LTS
<StevenK> imbrandon: Right.
<imbrandon> but it might be good to have that prominate somewhere
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: wonderful!
<nixternal> Burgundavia: join the "school has been kicking my ass" club
<nixternal> my dumb ass is doing 8 credit hours to complete my masters, and then for the hell of it, I decided to take 14 hours of compsci courses
<imbrandon> uht ohhh, ohhh noes, last cigarette and i'm not going to the store this late, looks like its almost bedtime
<nixternal> luckily, the 8 credit hours are field survey courses
<Hobbsee> hm, the sru process doesnt say when the package should get uploaded to -proposed, for universe
<nixternal> omg, did you hear that?
<nixternal> my pillow just yelled out my name
<nixternal> g'nite
<ajmitch> goodbye mr nixternal
<persia> If documentation is being updated, it may be worth taking a clos look at the SRU page.  It indicates that it should be uploaded (step 2), published (step 3), and then tested by the interested party (step 4.1)
<ajmitch> yay for documenting common sense
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, as soon as its debsigned? heh
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: as in, as a step on that list.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, well since its the begingin of the process i would assume step 1, i need to go back and look
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: it seems our documentation does instruct them to test, but perhaps after the upload to -proposed
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd say that step 1 includes first testing, then bug cleanup, then (implied) upload.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yes, and this is exactly what i said
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<persia> Grr..  This page is really not written to be helpful for people who can upload directly.
<TheMuso> persia: I was only thinking that earlier today.
<imbrandon> only minimal testing needs to be done before upload , patch applys clean builds installs upgrades removes , then wider testing is done via -proposed, that is what that repo is for
<persia> imbrandon: Can we add "runs" and "fixes reported issue" to that list?
<StevenK> Along with "no regressions" ?
<imbrandon> persia, sure if we come up with an "official" list for uploads, but if we add toooo much to the list wth is the point of -proposed, just upload it directly to -updates ;)
<persia> StevenK: As much as I'm fond of QA, I think "no regressions" is something that may not be obvious to the uploader, even with basic testing.
<StevenK> Okay, no serious regressions?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: seeing as the original uploader has to do the work in -proposed or -updates, the point is moot for then
<persia> imbrandon: For others to test, with different configurations, and different use cases, to expose regressions, new bugs introduced, etc.
<Hobbsee> the purpose of -proposed would be for other people to test it out, and do what persia said.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i was being a cynic, i know the real point
<imbrandon> but yea
<persia> More explicity, applying and uploading a patch without verifying that it addresses the reported issue is just a waste of other people's time.
<Hobbsee> persia: i think that's what i'm most annoyed about.
<Hobbsee> time is precious, and to waste other people's time is incredibly rude.
<ajmitch> persia: given in this case, the patch was supplied by upstream to fix the issue
<Hobbsee> and it also reflects on the distro, of course
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, kick ass i totaly agree with you two, but the real problem here is that is no where in writing so how do you enforce something thats not stated explisitly
<persia> Hobbsee: If that is what is annoying you, you'll do better to complain about rudeness than trust.  If we can't trust each other, we have a huge issue.  If we're impolite, we can discuss, and address that rationally.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: granted.  we should all fix that.
<Hobbsee> i thought it was there
<imbrandon> great that would be a better use of our time than arguring about mis-trust and such
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: although one kinda leads to the other...
<persia> ajmitch: You may be correct.  I haven't looked at the patch, or tested it.  I trust geser more than I trust upstream, and his opinion weighs a lot more than the original inventor.  If upstream was always right, there'd be very little for us to do.
<imbrandon> not exactly, my faith in ubuntu and -proposed hasent flickered, everyone views everything a tad diffrent, but i do agree we should get this going,
<ajmitch> persia: right, the patch was to fix an incompatibility between the package in question & a python library it depended on
<imbrandon> soooooo without further adue why dont we / you / someone sugest a starter list and we add it to the wiki or ML
<imbrandon> brb checking kernel compile progress
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: because i have to go to work :)
 * persia suggests "Patch applies", "result builds", "package upgrades cleanly", "application runs", "reported issue cannot be reproduced", "package uninstalls cleanly", "package purges cleanly".
<Hobbsee> persia: +1
<StevenK> persia: +1
<dholbach> thanks a lot persia
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, heh yea RL sucks at times, but does that sound like a sane first step ?
<Hobbsee> im
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yes
<ajmitch> persia: it's adequate, if the person uploading can reproduce the issue in question
<imbrandon> persia, looks good to me
<ajmitch> often you'll have to rely on the testing of others to verify that the problem that they saw, is no longer present
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea that was one of my things sometimes i dont have the hardware to test a given issue but i can make a upload for others to test
<persia> ajmitch: I agree completely.  If the uploader cannot verify, I'd hope they'd ask for testing here with a pointer to a candidate debdiff or the like.
<imbrandon> but the others should be no brainers
<ajmitch> persia: in that case, I'd suggest using PPAs
<ajmitch> as controversial as they may be ;)
<imbrandon> unless its non x86 hardware then ppa are useless
<imbrandon> e.g. PPC only issue
<imbrandon> or some such
 * StevenK coughs abd hacks, ubuntuwire
<StevenK> s/abd/and/
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it doesn't matter, really - whatever crackful build system people want to use
<imbrandon> StevenK, hehe yea i really wish we could have kept that going, maybe i'll spark some more intrest at UDS
<TheMuso> If people really need PPC hardware to build/test stuff on, I would be happy to give access.
<TheMuso> Granted its only a G4, but its something.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, hehe yea it was justa  example when "sometimes" that one rule might be an issue
<persia> ajmitch: Perhaps.  I don't know that we need binaries.  Most of us can apply a debdiff fairly easily.  PPAs or private builds are also acceptable for initial testing (in my opinion)
<ajmitch> the majority of issues will be x86/amd64 anyway, and the suggestion to use PPAs doesn't mean it's the only thing that people are allowed to use
<imbrandon> ok sounds like the majority of the use cases are solved, i think anything else we can do on a case by case
<ajmitch> persia: right, most of us can, sometimes you'd want binaries for others to test, but that's blurring the line between pre-upload testing & -proposed
<imbrandon> right there isnt much diffrence between own buld for someone else to test and -proposed
<imbrandon> but ..
<imbrandon> hrm
 * imbrandon kicks gcc
<ajmitch> except the level of 'official'
<ajmitch> anyway, I can't really comment, not being active :)
<nxvl> ok, i'm merging efax-gtk and i've generated the ubuntu.debdiff and debian.debdiff, but i'm not quite sure what to do now with them
<nxvl> what i've understand
<imbrandon> one thing that we might ask the archive admins to do is not sign the -proposed repo, thus you always get a warning aobut unauthenticaed when installing something from there
<imbrandon> ajmitch / StevenK / persia ^^
<StevenK> imbrandon: If that is even possible.
<persia> imbrandon: The main difference I see is that once we push to -proposed, we invite random testing from lots of willing update testing participants (who are a great help to our SRU process).  I'd rather at least verify we're not breaking something before asking their help.
<imbrandon> that might help to with "this is testing ONLY" repo
<nxvl> is to look at ubuntu.debdiff and the see if the changes are in debian.debdiff, am i on the right way?
<imbrandon> nxvl, yup
<imbrandon> StevenK, it should be , the PPA's are unsigned
<nxvl> imbrandon: and the only way to that is inspection?
<StevenK> Do not compare PPAs with the offical archive.
<imbrandon> yes
<StevenK> They are nothing alike.
<persia> imbrandon: I'd rather have -proposed sign.  it makes it safer for the -proposed testing participants (who often catch possible regressions during the testing period)
<imbrandon> StevenK, well they both use soyuz etc , point is its "possible"
<persia> nxvl: Depending on the nature of the different patches, you may find diff comparison tools useful.
<nxvl> persia: wich tools?
<StevenK> nxvl: Tools such as diffstat, interdiff and filterdiff
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> i have never heard about they before
 * nxvl googles
<persia> nxvl: They are in the patchutils package
 * Hobbsee --> work
<imbrandon> ok so is persia's checklist ok for the ML or should we go streight to the wiki and then the ML ?
<persia> imbrandon: Best would be to put a draft on the wiki, and discuss during the next MOTU Meeting, but that's weeks away.  I'd suggest a ML post (in a new thread) noting that the wiki will be updated in 2 days unless there is opposition.
<imbrandon> sounds good to me, i'll draft an email then while i'm waiting on this kernel to build, dholbach you OK with that ?
<imbrandon> ( or anyone else )
<RAOF> ion_: With regard to hardware-connected on revu - you ship an exportsrc script in debian/.  (1) It's not executable, which would be nice, and (2) could you instead make that a get-orig-source target of debian/rules?  That'd be a bit more standard.
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks for drafting it.
<RAOF> ion_: Other than that it seems a pretty inoffensive package ;)
<imbrandon> persia, np , i'm just glad we could come up with something other than geser on a cross :)
<ajmitch> heh
<StevenK> imbrandon: Why not both?
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> I'm sure it wouldn't have gone *quite* that far
<persia> imbrandon: Nah.  We don't really want that.  Someone else would have to do his 200 uploads for hardy.
<imbrandon> :)
<ion_> raof: I donât think thereâs a way to make it executable. dpkg-source only makes debian/rules executable after applying the diff. exportsrc not only exports a tarball out of the upstream branch, but also exports a diff out of the packaging branch and builds a source package out of them. Thatâs a lot more than what get-orig-source would do.
<ajmitch> persia: I'd say that StevenK would, but he probably doesn't want to add to the 3498 he's already got lined up
 * persia thinks StevenK's fingers aren't fast enough to upload any more packages
<ajmitch> persia: you think wrongly
<ajmitch> persia: http://xkcd.com/208/ <-- stevenk with his mad skills
<nxvl> it will be wonderfull if documentation about the diffutils will be on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging since it's kind of needed
<nxvl> IMHO
<StevenK> ajmitch: Muahaha
<persia> ajmitch: Yep.  The missing .desktop finding script on the wiki is the result of such a vine swing.
<StevenK> And I didn't even write it!
<dholbach> imbrandon: sure
<StevenK> (... or did I?)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, hahahah classic
<persia> nxvl: That page is actually going away soon, and the target page is expected to have such information.  Apologies for the inconvenience whilst we remodel.
<persia> StevenK: It's copyright you.  If you didn't write it, someone else did, and assigned it to you.  (searh for "owal" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles)
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<persia> morning siretart
<siretart> heyha ajmitch && imbrandon && persia
<StevenK> Hrm. I think I did write it - it looks like my Perl
<StevenK> I think I need a database to keep track of the Ubuntu work I do. :-)
<nxvl> persia: wich target page?
<ajmitch> would there be one big enough?
<persia> StevenK: Does LP not provide enough guidance?
<persia> nxvl: I forget exactly: it's listed in the header block for that page.  I suspect it will end up somewhere in PackagingGuide, but you'll do best to check.
<StevenK> LP can tell me which packages I've touched, not if I've spent 20 mintes writing a script like that, or if I've looked at a bug for 2 hours and given up in disgust.
<nxvl> persia: can it be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging?
<persia> Ah.  Proper time accounting, etc.  You could be the first ISO9004 compliant contributor :)
<nxvl> persia: well, the point is that i will we bonderfull if that docs are somewhere in there, cause they help a LOT
<StevenK> persia: I don't so much care about time accounting, just what I've touched.
<persia> nxvl: The page you've just referenced will be merged into UbuntuDevelopment.  Once the current reorganisation is complete, there will be a review, and missing things will be added.  Would you mind keeping track of anything you think is missing, and checking once the reorganisation is complete?
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I was thinking about the 20 minutes & 2 hours (although due to the customer providing constantly changing requirements, I believe the script actually took 2 or 3 hours)
<nxvl> persia: ok, i will do it so, where should i ask for these tools to be included? motu list?
<BugMaN> hi all! :)
<nxvl> persia: or motu-mentors list
 * persia is pleased to discover the excellent instructions on using lpbugs to painlessly use Malone to track merge coordination in MOTU/Merging.
<persia> nxvl: I'd suggest that you look at the results of the merge once is is complete, and add the notes where you feel they are appropriate, in the wiki directly.  If you'd like assistance or review in preparing the best text, this channel is a good place to ask (at the time you are preparing the text)
<nxvl> persia: ok, when i lern how this tools work i will :D
<imbrandon> persia, StevenK, ajmitch, dholbach , email sent please make sure it actualy hits the ML , i cant rember what mail i subscribed to the list from ( i think imbrandon@kubuntu.org and thats where i sent from )
<persia> imbrandon: you hit :)
<imbrandon> kk thanks
<warp10> Hi all!
<nxvl> ok, so what i need to do is use diff stat to see what files have been modified on ubuntu.debdiff, then filter this files on debian.debdiff with filterdiff, and the compare the result of it with ubuntu.debdiff using filter diff, doesn't i?
<persia> nxvl: That's one of many, many, many ways to do it.
<nxvl> persia: it's the simple way?
<nxvl> or it is simpler ways to do it?
<persia> nxvl: I don't think there's a simple way.  Both MoM and DaD are attempts to make the process simpler, but both still require human oversight.  From a cognitive perspective, you want to understand the new Debian changes, understand the Ubuntu variation, and divine the appropriate ideal solution.
<persia> To do this you might use diff, you might use patch, you might use lsdiff, or filterdiff, diffstat.  It's a matter of how you understand it most easily.
<nxvl> mmmm
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will try that way
<nxvl> persia: thx
<siretart> time accounting for ubuntu work seems interesting
<siretart> what do people use in this channel for time accounting?
<gnomefreak> how do i get dput to upload everything but tarball
<imbrandon> hrm i have never actualy thought about doing it
<imbrandon> gnomefreak, debuild -S -sd ?
<gnomefreak> it doesnt seem to give me a choice
<imbrandon> iirc
<gnomefreak> ok ill try
<nxvl> what i'm not clear about its to filter more than one file using filterdiff
<imbrandon> i have lost many years to ubuntu packages, never thought about tracking it in any "offical" way
<imbrandon> kinda intersting
 * persia doesn't want to do time accounting for ubuntu: it makes it a less efficient agent of procrastination
<persia> nxvl: I believe it takes any regular expression.
<nxvl> persia: perl regular expresions or bash ones?
<persia> nxvl: I don't remember.  `man filterdiff`
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> it doesn't say
 * nxvl googles
<nxvl> i think a script will be better and less waste of time
<persia> nxvl: The problem with a script is that it doesn't do a very good job of getting the information into your brain (and the automated solutions aren't good enough to not receive human review).
<nxvl> persia: not a fully process script
<nxvl> i wrote this: for i in $(diffstat ubuntu.debdiff | cut -d" " -f2); do filterdiff -i '*'$i debian.debdiff >> debian_merged.debdiff ; done
<nxvl> persia: so what it only does is to extract the changes in both debdiffs
<persia> nxvl: Ah.  Makes sense.  Be careful: sometimes two changes in different places can affect each other.
<nxvl> persia: what im looking for, is to see what files have been modified in the 2 of them and wich changes have been made in debian package
<nxvl> persia: now i will read the result debdiff and ubuntu debdiff to see what changes i need to do by hand
<nxvl> persia: i'm on the right way?
<nxvl> s/i'm/am i/
<persia> nxvl: That's certainly one way to do it.  Just be careful: sometimes two changes don't cause a conflict, but cause behavioural issues.  (e.g. Ubuntu adds a new dh_install line in debian/rules.  Debian creates a debian/install file, and adds information there).
<pkern> Does anyone have a clue wrt svn-buildpackage?
<nxvl> persia: i'm uploading the debdiff's so u can have a look, can u?
<persia> nxvl: I don't have the environment available right now to verify: I'd only be able to give it a causal look.  You'd do better to subscribe the sponsors team for initial feedback.
<nxvl> persia: i only want u to give a casual look to see if i'm on the right way, not to do the process with me
<persia> nxvl: OK then.  Which bug?
<nxvl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/efax-gtk/+bug/155950
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<persia> nxvl: I don't see the debdiff.
<nxvl> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/debian.debdiff
<nxvl> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/debian_merged.debdiff
<nxvl> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/ubuntu.debdiff
<nxvl> there they are
<persia> nxvl: Which would be your candidate revision?
<nxvl> i'm not quite sure about you are asking
<nxvl> you meen the new debian version?
<nxvl> ah ok
<nxvl> wich of the 3 i want you to look at
<persia> Which of those debdiffs represents your work towards a new merged Ubuntu revision?
<nxvl> it would be debian_merged
<nxvl> debian.debdiff is the resoult of comparing the old and new version of debian
<nxvl> ubuntu.debdiff of the old debian and old ubuntu
<nxvl> and debian_merged the result of my script
<persia> OK.  First, it's best practice to make a debdiff against the current Debian package, to make it easy to review the Ubuntu variation.
<persia> Second, you'll want a changelog entry indicating you merged the package
<BugMaN> nxvl: i suppose you can change maintainer field also
<persia> Third, you'll want to list all the remaining Ubuntu variations in summary in the changelog entry.
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> ok, for First
<persia> Fourth, when preparing a debdiff, you'll want to try to avoid the /tmp/9f8xh9 references: it should apply with patch -p0 or patch -p1 (required for native packages).
<nxvl> i was following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<persia> Fifth, as this is not against the Debian package, it's difficult to know if either the standard Ubuntu variations (e.g. maintainer field, etc.) are done, so this isn't a complete review.
<nxvl> and there they make ubuntu and debian debdiff's with old debian, and new ubuntu and debian
<nxvl> so conclusion my work so far with debdiff's is wrong
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> then i will start once again
<persia> Right.  That page shows lots of different diffs.  I don't think you're wrong, just not yet familiar.
<nxvl> persia: yes, that is what im thinking :D
<persia> There's no need to start over.  Your last patch, applied to the Ubuntu version, may well generate something very close to the final result you seek.
<nxvl> persia: i'm on learning process and beeing wrong most of the time is part of it
<nxvl> persia: yes, but i'm not comfortable with "very close" i want it the right way
<persia> You'll just want to follow the last step listed above "Another Approach to Merging", where it indicates you should run `debdiff debian-revision.dsc candidate-revision.dsc > candidate-revision.debdiff`, and use the results thereof to request review & sponsoring.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> first of all, i have made NO changes so far
<nxvl> i'm only recolecting information to start working
<persia> nxvl: very close is a good thing.  Items 1 & 5 are really about the debdiff source.  Items 2 & 3 are just a little extra work you need to do.  Item 4 is probably an artifact of the diff process.
<nxvl> in other words, see what are the changes i need to apply
<persia> nxvl: If you're only collecting information, you're doing the right thing.
<nxvl> ok, i'm kind of confused, so let's start again
<nxvl> i have those 3 debdiff
<persia> OK.  Do you understand the changes the Debian maintainer made?
<nxvl> ubuntu.debdiff correspond to old debian against new ubuntu
<nxvl> debian.debdiff correspond to old debian against new debian
<nxvl> and debian_merged.debdiff is the resoult of filtering the files listed with diffstat on the ubuntu.debdiff on the debian.debdiff
<nxvl> what i want to do with debian_merged.debdiff is the compare it to ubuntu.debdiff and see wich of the changes made in ubuntu, was also made in debian
<huats> morning everyone
<nxvl> other whing is thar debian.debdiff has also the changes to the source, say in other words the upstream changes, din't it?
<nxvl> s/whing/thing/
<persia> nxvl: It looks like there was an upstream change (at least there was a change to the upstream changelog)
<nxvl> persia: it is a new version so it MUST have an upstream change, otherwise there will be no new version, don't you think?
<persia> In this case, you might want to look at the Ubuntu variation between the Ubuntu package and the Debian ancestor package, and then check to see if you need to keep any of the changes.
<siretart> does anyone know Jonathan Nelson <ciasaboark@gmail...>?
<nxvl> persia: ok, then you are talking about the ubuntu.debdiff
<persia> nxvl: Right.  Logically break down the changes in ubuntu.debdiff, and then check to see if they should be applied to the new Debian revision.
<nxvl> persia: ok, tha changes made by ubuntu where to fix an icon problem LP #108746
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
<nxvl> so i think it MUST be aplied
<nxvl> and some other changes concerning these bug
<nxvl> like a .desktop patch
<persia> huats: Do you have any suggestions for nxvl on this merge (it being an update for your change)?
<huats> oh
<persia> nxvl: OK.  You've broken it down.  Do any of the upstream or Debian changes (in the changelogs) appear to address any of the issues?
<huats> let me see what has been said before :-)
<nxvl> persia: so, what you are trying to say is that i need to look on the upstream and debian changelog to see if there is a solution for these problems?
<nxvl> persia: or in debian.debdiff?
<persia> nxvl: More to see if there is an upstream or Debian change that would resolve any of the issues resolved by Ubuntu.  You can look either in the changelog or the debdiff (the debdiff is more reliable, but harder to read)
<huats> persia and nxvl  I am listening :-)
<persia> nxvl: huats made the the changes from that bug report, and may be able to share information about previous coordination with upstream and Debian.
<nxvl> huats: ok, what i'm trying to do is to merge efax-gtk-3.0.15-1ubuntu1
<huats> nxvl: ok
<nxvl> huats: it's my first time doing the merge job, so i'm kind of lost
<nxvl> huats: i have undestand the changes u have been made
<huats> nxvl: ok so may be we can both learn since I never did a merge too :-)
<nxvl> huats: so now i need to look if either upstream or debian have patch your changes to, didn't i
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> thats what i need to do
<huats> nxvl: I think that is the good way to do indeed
<nxvl> i need to see if the changes have been made in the new release or if i need to do them once again
<huats> exactly
<nxvl> ok
<persia> huats: when you made the changes before, did you send a bug report or patch to Debian or to upstream?
<nxvl> so what persia is asking for is to tell me/us about the coordinations with upstream/debian for these changes
<huats> so you need to have a look in the upstream changelog and the debian changelog to see if anything corrects the issue that my previous patch corrects
<nxvl> huats: yup
<huats> regarding the changes upstream and debian, I have to admit that I had not done it yet.... I was planning to do it after the gutsy realease...
<huats> and there you are...
<persia> huats: No worries.  When there is a bug filed, it makes merging easy, as one can check the external bugtracker to see if the patch was applied.  On the other hand, this is a better example for learning.
<nxvl> it seems debian haven't patch it, according to the changelog
<nxvl> it olny says "  * Update debian/menu according to the new menu policy.
<huats> ok
<huats> so there is a part of my changes that has been done
<nxvl> huats: did you made any changes to debian/menu?
<huats> nxvl: yep
<nxvl> the debian/menu is the conflict package
<huats> I quote the ubuntu changelog "* Modify debian/menu in line with new menu hierarchy"
<nxvl> ok, the problem here is
<nxvl> in debian it has: Applications/Network and in ubuntu Applications/Network/File Transfer
<nxvl> so i think i need to keep the ubuntu one
<nxvl> doesn't i?
<huats> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html#s3.2
<huats> it is the doc for the menu spec
<huats> so indeed I think the ubuntu one is the right noe
<huats> and you can send that to debian as well...
<persia> Specifically, it says for 'Network' "This is a three-level section, do not put entries directly here."
<huats> persia: so I was right ?
<nxvl> persia: so i need to put it in File Transfer
<persia> huats: nxvl: Yes (to both questions)
<nxvl> :D
<huats> :-)
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> editing the changelog
<persia> nxvl: Remember: you want to add to the changelog, not edit it.
<norsetto> goooooooooooooooooooood morning
<Lamego> hello
<nxvl> persia: i'm editing it, since the las entry is from Merge-o-Matic and it explicit says to edit it
<nxvl> norsetto: good morning, im almost done with efax-gtk
<huats> norsetto: morning  my favorite italian guy
<persia> nxvl: Ah.  That's safe then.
<norsetto> hey nxvl, how is it with the merging?
<dholbach> heya norsetto, hey lam
<dholbach> lamego :)
<norsetto> hiya dholbach
<Lamego> dholbach, :)
<nxvl> norsetto: im, now building
<huats> do we have to merge file-roller ? in merge.ubuntu.com it is version 2.20.0-1 and I know that we have 2.20.1 in gutsy-proposed....
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm done with tha changes, persia help me A LOT
 * nxvl hugs persia 
<norsetto> nxvl: good, was it difficult?
<imbrandon> brb
<persia> huats: We will likely want to do so.  MoM doesn't track -proposed, but the new file-roller should soon go to gutsy, and it will show up on MoM then.
<persia> nxvl: While it's building, could you post the debdiff for huats and I to review?
<Lamego> someone to look at bug 155314 for universe sponsorhsip ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155314 in twinkle "Unable to authenticate with SIP server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155314
<nxvl> norsetto: the changes where on my face, but i didn't see them cause i't was a lot of info coming to my head (the merging process + th changes)
<nxvl> persia: what debdiff?
<persia> nxvl debdiff between current Debian and target Ubuntu (the one you're building)
<norsetto> nxlv: well, its your first one, you will see thats gonna be easier and easier for the next
<huats> persia: so we'll merge it once -proposed appears right ?
<persia> Lamego: Nothing to do right now: we're still waiting for the toolchain to settle for hardy uploads.  Apologies for the delay.
<nxvl> persia: ok
<persia> huats: Once hardy is open for general uploads.
<norsetto> persia, huats, nxvl: did you guys decide something about the menu entry?
<persia> norsetto: huats quoted Debian policy showing the Debian is buggy :)  nxvl is planning on filing a bug.
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> persia: devil huats :-)
<nxvl> i will generate the .dsc file and the upload the debdiff
<Lamego> persia, it's for gutsy-proposed
<huats> norsetto: you showed me the doccumentation, it is your fault
<persia> Lamego: Ah.  Sorry.  That's not clear from the report.  I'd suggest adding [SRU] to the bug title, and subscribing motu-uvf for approval (as usually we need the fix in the development release prior to posting to -proposed).
<huats> norsetto: and I am quite sure you said "the holly reference" or something like that...
<Lamego> persia, i have followed the SponsorShi process described on the Wiki :)
<norsetto> huats: do we have a new lintian in gutsy? I remember seeing something, but that perhaps was linda
<Lamego> none of your recommendations are described there :)
<persia> Lamego: You followed it perfectly.  Unfortunately, we're in a strange sort of post-release freeze right now, so it's a little complicated (see #ubuntu-motu /topic).
<Lamego> and why do you need it fixed on development, if develpment is not yet available :) ?
<norsetto> huats: because that kind of things should be catched by lintian
<persia> It's the policy.  It doesn't actually work for about 4 weeks every year, but we've not revised it sensibly.  Apologies for the confusion.
<huats> norsetto: I think there is a new lintian
<Lamego> argh, why do you keeping creating freezes an interim processes, despite of the well established documentation ?
<huats> I can remember that some stuff were ok with the one on feisty and ko with the gutsy one....
<norsetto> huats: well, I don't know if it covers the menu change still, gotta check the changelog
<Lamego> persia, what is the reasoning for this post-release freeze ?
<persia> Lamego: The documentation is at fault.  The ~2 week wait for archive open whilst the toolchain settles is old: we just keep forgetting to write it down.  I believe this is the first time we have a functioning freeze exception process for post-release: in the past it's been even worse.
<nxvl> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/efax-gtk/+bug/155950
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<persia> Lamego: The toolchain is bootstrapping (compilers, linkers, interpreters, etc.).  Once that becomes stable (should be soon), everything else gets pumped in and built.  If this freeze wasn't here, lots of things would FTBFS for no good reason.
<nxvl> persia: posted the debdiff
<nxvl> norsetto: i posted the debdiff, can u check it please
<persia> huats: Do you see anything missing there?
<huats> I have a look
<norsetto> huats: no, it will not be cactched by our lintian, its even before policy change
<Lamego> persia, you are talking about development, I am talking about current, the ~2 week after the release is the peridod on which you are more likely to get bugs reported by "non-development" users
<nxvl> lintian says there are no commmon mistakes on mi dsc \o/
<persia> Lamego: Yep.  That's why I'm so happy we have the motu-uvf workaround for this release.  The last couple were less pleasant, and there were no universe updates for a bit.
 * nxvl wonders where have he left the cigarretes :S
<Lamego> uff, doesn't uvf stand for upstream version freeze ?
<Lamego> why do I need an uvf team to review a 4 lines patch :) ?
<norsetto> nxvl, huats: ok, lets wait what huats will say
<persia> Lamego: Yes, UVF stands for Upstream Version Freeze.  The reason this team is handling it is that we didn't have time to elect a new team prior to the implementation of the new process, and the members of that team volunteered to help with post-release processing.
<Lamego> ok, I will wait for 2 weeks
<Lamego> if someone looks at it, and I personally don't forget it also :P
<persia> Lamego: OK.  If it's important, you could subscribe the team, and they'll probably hit it in a few days.
<Lamego> ok, I will try
<huats> persia norsetto  nxvl  as far as I see it is great
<norsetto> huats: think again ......
<persia> nxvl: huats: A few things about this candidate:
<norsetto> huats, nxvl: I see few things which need to be corrected
<persia> 1)  The Debian maintainer uses a different patch system than the Ubuntu variation.  We should extract the dpatch, and use the Debian maintainer's patch system.
<huats> I'll have second look
<persia> 2)  The debdiff is full of config{sub,guess}.  We should consider moving the refresh from the clean rule to the configure rule
<persia> 3) The latest changelog entry doesn't specify all the changes retained / dropped clearly
<huats> ok
<huats> so the 3) I didn't know that we were allow do this kind of stuff :-)
<huats> sorry I meant the 2)
<norsetto> huats: for 2), for sure you need to clean manually your debdiff, but as persia said, its the fault of the DD package, not yours
<huats> regarding the 3) it is the first merge I see, but indeed it appears important to rewrite the changes done ....
<persia> huats: There are no limits to what we are allowed.  The more we vary from Debian, the more we take direct responsibility for the results.  As there are around 15,000 packages, we make efforts to match Debian policy as closely as possible to reduce this responsibility for each packge.
<nxvl> ok
<huats> ok
<nxvl> let's go step by step, starting with 1)
<norsetto> huats, persia, nxvl: please consider as well that this is for hardy, not gutsy (check the distribution in changelog)
<nxvl> persia: where have yoo see it
<huats> norsetto: I remember that you asked me to clean by hand every debdiff for flightgear
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: yes, when you ask for a sponsor your debdiff _MUST_ only contains the relevant changes, no cruft added
<huats> to remove the config{sub, guess}
<nxvl> norsetto: fixed
<huats> nxvl: you have clean by hand you debdiff ?
<persia> nxvl: The quick and easy way to check is to do `lsdiff -z foo.diff.gz`  When there are entries in debian/patches, keep them there.  When there are not, if there are changes outside debian/ in diff.gz, make changes outside debian.  When debian/patches is empty and there are no changes outside debian/ in diff.gz, you may select a patch system.
<nxvl> huats: am working on it
<huats> it is useless to do that before you have finished to fix everything else
<huats> it is the last thing to to
<huats> to do
<huats> since it'll be regenerated
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> your right
<huats> nxvl: start with the 1) point as persia points out
<norsetto> huats: didn't I ask you to forward this to Debian? I usually did
<huats> I am not sure that you were the one who uploads it...
<huats> may be
<huats> and as I said , I had planned to forward a  few fixes to debian after gutsy .... sorry....
<nxvl> persia: u mean efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.diff.gz?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  In that case "foo" was to be replaced by "efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1"
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> so, i see many files, an there is some in debian/patches
<persia> Er..  Rather "efax-gtk_3.0.15-1", as we want to determine how the Debian maintainer is managing patches.
<huats> :-)
<nxvl> k
<nxvl> so, there are some files but there is no debian/patches
<persia> nxvl: Files outside debian/ ?
<nxvl> persia: yes 7 of them
<persia> OK.  That means that the Debian maintainer does not use separated patches.  I don't think this is best practice for package maintenance, but some people do.  In the hopes that we can eventually merge everything back so we're not responsible for efax-gtk, we'll need to extract the dpatch, and apply it directly.
<nxvl> mm
<norsetto> persia: as you know, there we disagree, especially since we should teach good practices to new packagers, not just cope with DD bad practices
<nxvl> that means patch by hand and remove the patches?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.
<nxvl> ok
<norsetto> persia, nxvl, huats: I do think we should keep the patch system
<nxvl> ok
<persia> norsetto: Yes.  We disagree on this.
<nxvl> now we have come to disagreements
<nxvl> lets get to a middle point
<persia> The argument in favor of keeping the patch system is that it makes it lots easier to add / remove patches when needed.
<norsetto> persia: we disagree strongly, I will never excuse DD bad practices
<persia> The argument against keeping the patch system is that it makes it impossible to merge back to Debian.
<norsetto> persia: which is weak, because these changes should be merged back into debian
<persia> norsetto: My largest objection is that a package should never, ever use two different patch systems simultaneously.  If we are to use a patch system, we should extract all the patches in the diff.gz, and place them in dpatches.  Having patches in both is likely to cause annoyance.
<norsetto> persia: agreed, but in this case the package do NOT use a patch system
<norsetto> persia: this is the difference, I do not consider inline as a patch system, its just crap
<nxvl> can we take diff.gz and separate patches?
<persia> norsetto: If we follow the Debian maintainer's practice, a patch to merge the changes back becomes available on packages.qa.debian.org.  If we install a second patch system (with entirely unpredictable results), the Debian maintainer will sensibly refuse to accept a clearly broken patch.
<norsetto> persia: again we disagree, we should not enforce our choice, in this case we simply give back the .desktop file
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  If you do so, you end up with a very nice package, that both norsetto and I would endorse.  On the other hand, it is a lot of work, and you will need to accept responsibility for keeping it up to date.
<persia> norsetto: Huh?  If we're not enforcing our choice, why not follow heirs?
<nxvl> persia: ok, so lets continue making a decision, tu much responsability for a new packager
<nxvl> s/tu/to
<norsetto> persia: we do use it for our revision, because thats the right thing to do
<norsetto> persia: I don't see the need, and 99% is worng, to pass them our debdiff
<norsetto> persia: thats the problem, you see it as our duty to enfore our choice, which I don't, we do our bit the correct way, and ask them to merge the changes back their way
<nxvl> im agree with norsetto, it's better to do it the right way and ask DD to make it too
<norsetto> nxvl: I think this is the only point were persia and I will keep disagreeing for the centuries to come :-)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> so, lets forget about 1) and continue with 2)
<huats> nxvl: I think thet 1) is the main pb here...
<nxvl> huats: but, 1) is a debian problem
<nxvl> huats: the problem in 1) is that the DD made it the wrong way
<nxvl> norsetto: i'm i right?
<huats> :-)
<nxvl> 4:40 on the morning i need to get some sleep
<nxvl> i have class at 11 am, and the ubuntu Open Week speaches start at 10 am
<persia> nxvl: There are arguments both ways about it.  Norsetto and I agree that the method used by the DD isn't preferable, but it's not really correct to call it "wrong".
<nxvl> persia: ok, sorry about that
<nxvl> mmm norsetto hase gone
<norsetto> crappy rt2x00 module
<nxvl> persia, norsetto: i really need to sleep i need to wake up un 4 hours, can u get into a decicion and let me know it by LP or e-mail so i can continue working these tomorrow?
<nxvl> s/un/in
<persia> norsetto: Anecdotally, I've had quite a few Debian maintainers merge my debdiffs.  Also, I argue that two patch systems is far worse than any chosen method (including sed scripts called from debian/rules)
<nxvl> s/these/on these/
<norsetto> persia: agreed, totally agreed, were we disagree is that the lack of a patch system IS a patch system
<persia> nxvl: We're both officially correct, and other sponsors may disagree with either of us (we're both fairly strict about things).
<persia> norsetto: What?  diff.gz, no?  All the patches can be extracted with filterdiff.  It's fairly annoying, and stores very little meta-data, but the upstream codebase is still pristine.
<nxvl> persia: i know that, BUT what sould i do? do it your way or norsetto's way?
<persia> nxvl: You should do it your way.  Either of our ways is likely acceptable.
<norsetto> persia: I call a cat a cat
<persia> norsetto: Yep.  Me too.  But I don't complain when people talk about felines.
<norsetto> persia: and you know what is the policy about the .diff.gz, eh?
<nxvl> i will contact the debian maintainer and discuss with him about that, i will try to change everything to the right way
<persia> norsetto: It must contain all differences from upstream.  It should not contain changes outside debian/.
<nxvl> s/right/best/
<persia> nxvl: That's a perfect goal.  That sort of coordination results in the best quality packages for both Debian and Ubuntu.
<nxvl> ok, so i will send an e-mail right now
<persia> nxvl: Don't forget to also file the bug about the menu file.
<nxvl> norsetto: despide on 1) what more are you disagree with? i mean on what sould i keep working
<nxvl> persia: yes, i will, tomorrow
<nxvl> :D
<norsetto> nxvl: I didn't see anything else, was quite a good job :-)
<nxvl> norsetto: thanks
<huats> nxvl: you did a great work...
<norsetto> also huats was a good help ;-)
<norsetto> and thansk to persia for his good job too !
<nxvl> norsetto: so, in your point of view, and dispide the disagreement, it is ready for being uploaded (we will not do that until i came to a decicion with the DD, but just to know how do i did it)
<huats> nxvl: and with norsetto and persia you had 2 MOTU who are really nice with new contributors...
<nxvl> huats: thnx
 * norsetto hugs everybody
 * huats too
 * nxvl hugs everyone too
<nxvl> grupal hug!!!
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> y really love FS
<persia> nxvl: There are a couple small points: #2 means you either need to run filterdiff, or move the config.{sub,guess} calls in debian/rules.  #3 is just note taking, and be sure to target hardy for the upload.
<huats> persia:  nxvl  3) was to report the changes you merge in the changelog
<persia> Right.
<huats> the hardy target was supposed to be 4)
<huats> :-)
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> but
<nxvl> the changes I made
<nxvl> was only to edit the debian/menu
<persia> nxvl: You'll want to record all the changes you made to the Debian package, which includes all the other changes you inherited from huats.
<nxvl> and point 2) i don't find it on debdiff
<nxvl> persia: ok, i undestand, so i will need to say "merge changes for revision #"?
<persia> nxvl: You'll want to list the specific changes, so that the next person who is working on the package can see all the Ubuntu changes without going through the entire changelog.
<persia> nxvl: I see config.guess starting from the first line of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126369/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<nxvl> persia: config.sub should be removed too?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  Personally, I like to remove them by moving the cp call to the configure: rule, but filterdiff satisfies most sponsor's requirements.
<nxvl> persia: remove line 61 and 64 from debian/rules ?
<persia> nxvl: I'm not actually following along here :)  Could you pastebin debian/rules for me to answer that?
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> persia: http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/rules
<persia> nxvl: No.  We need those to build.  I tend to move it up in the rules file (to around line 38), but filterdiff is also acceptable.
<persia> (umm... "it" refers the the both stanzas between lines 60 and 65 inclusive)
<huats> just an opinion on bug 151554
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151554 in webkit "libwebkitgtk0d" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151554
<huats> is there something top do ? or will it be done automatically with the sync from debian ?
<nxvl> persia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126656/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<nxvl> persia: liek that?
<persia> huats: That should be autosync'd from Debian shortly after the archive opens.  There may be a need to merge changes from the old libwebkitgdk package (that needs investigation).  I'd recommend watching the package sync when it starts, and processing a merge if you think it's required.
<huats> persia: ok
<nxvl> persia: sorry, dont open it, im kind of sleep
<nxvl> persia: its the same debdiff
<huats> that was my opinion too... happy to see it is your too
<huats> do we know when the sync will be ?
<persia> huats: Current best guesses are available from the Hardy Release Schedule on the wiki, although this schedule is subject to change based on UDS.
<nxvl> persia:
<nxvl> persia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126685/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<huats> persia: ok
<persia> OK.  Changelog needs to include the specific changes, not just reference a previous version.
<nxvl> persia: so, u are saying to rewrite them?
<nxvl> persia: but there are in the chagelog
<persia> I still see "diff -u efax-gtk-3.0.15/config.guess efax-gtk-3.0.15/config.guess" at the top.  I'm not sure why.
<persia> You need to repeat them.  You may summarise.
<nxvl> me niether
<nxvl> persia: o
<persia> ("them" refers to changelog entries)
<nxvl> persia: but, it's in there, but with no changes
<nxvl> persia: yes, i know
<nxvl> ok, removed lines 1 and 2
<persia> nxvl: Even so.
<nxvl> tomorow i will write to DD, fill the bug and correct changelog
<persia> I'm still not happy about dpatch, but 1) I'm not the only sponsor around, and 2) you're planning to contact the DD
<nxvl> now i need to sleep
<persia> Other than that, it looks fine.
<nxvl> persia: yes, that part will be fixed after contacting the DD
<nxvl> persia: thnx
<nxvl> persia: *HUGS*
<persia> good night nxvl
<nxvl> huats: *HUGS*
<nxvl> norsetto: *HUGS*
 * dholbach hugs y'all :)
<nxvl> persia: heh, it will be good morning since its 5 o clock and the sun is rising
<nxvl> :P
<norsetto> huats: Bug 151554 is just a sync (note the package version). You can easily check the changelog too (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit/)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151554 in webkit "libwebkitgtk0d" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151554
<persia> norsetto: Does it even need ubuntu-archive attention?  I think it will be automatic.
<norsetto> persia: yes, it should be auto-synced
 * norsetto hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs norsetto back :)
 * norsetto finds dholbach huggable, must be all that hair
<dholbach> . o O { hair? }
<norsetto> dholbach: everything is relative, everybody is hairy wrt me ;-)
<ion_> O . o { hair? } would be valid Ruby code.
<dholbach> ion_: that's not what I aimed for ;-)
<persia> ion_: Why not '. o O { hair? }' ?
<ion_> persia: â. oâ is a syntax error.
<persia> (calling a method of the implicit object with an argument which is an inherited function with an argument that takes a single block as an argument)
 * norsetto head is spinning
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Space.  Grr...
<persia> .o O { hair? }
<ion_> persia: Well, â.oâ is a syntax error. :-)
<dholbach> norsetto: don't worry - mine too :)
 * dholbach -> lunch
<persia> ion_: I was sure that could be used against the implicit object, but I can't duplicate now.  perhaps an exercise for tomorrow :)
<ion_> persia: plain âoâ sends :o to âselfâ.
 * norsetto feeds the cats
<persia> ion_: Right.  I was thinking something like:
<persia> def foo
<persia> "Hello"
<persia> sort
<persia> end
<persia> sort is called on "Hello" (which doesn't really do anything).
<ion_> Sorry, it isnât. :-)
<ion_> Thatâs equivalent to def foo; "Hello"; self.sort; end
 * persia imagines there is probably a way to override the meaning of . within the conext of a block, but is unwilling to try at this time
<ion_> You can any_object.instance_eval &block
<ion_> That way the block sees âselfâ as the any_object.
<huats> huats -> lunch
<siretart> dholbach: thank you very much for your last email to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c
 * norsetto hugs siretar
<norsetto> guys be aware, I'm in a hug mood, stay clear if you don want to be hugged
<proppy> ohayo
<norsetto> dakoo-ta
<proppy> norsetto: howdy ?
<norsetto> proppy: can you come closer?
<proppy> norsetto: yep np my times is yours
 * norsetto hugs proppy!
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: so, how is it going with viewvc
<proppy> norsetto: let me check in which state is it
<proppy> norsetto: btw, did you log on root@lp152438.aminche.com ?
<proppy> norsetto: or was is useless ?
<norsetto> proppy: should I log on there?
<proppy> If you want to check/debug/code on this bug, you can
<proppy> I added your ssh keys
<proppy> but you don't really have to :)
<proppy> norsetto: the last change I've done is to fix viewvc-template script, not to add template_dir option if it's already here
<proppy> norsetto: changeset here http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/843c8bf25841
<proppy> norsetto: list of changes here http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/
<proppy> norsetto: so next is to put viewvc-template in the debian directory, call it from postin, and generate a debdiff ?
 * siretart hugs norsetto back
 * proppy hugs norsetto back
<norsetto> proppy: sorry, I had a little issue here, let me check
<norsetto> proppy: you keep shooting changelogs at me :-)
<norsetto> proppy: didn't we agree last time that you were testing the script with a feisty->gutsy upgrade and then sending it to the DD?
<proppy> norsetto: I should have put this somewhere not to forget about it :)
<norsetto> proppy: whats the pass for root@lp152438.aminche.com?
<proppy> norsetto: wait it is on http://lp152438.aminche.com/ wiki I've no excuse :)
<proppy> norsetto: ssh root@lp152438.aminche.com -p 1622
<proppy> norsetto: there is not pass, you're private keys should work
<proppy> s/not/no
<norsetto> proppy: its empty ....
<proppy> norsetto: what is empty ?
<proppy> norsetto: go in /home/www
<norsetto> proppy: looks good
 * norsetto wonders what reaction the DD will have at this
<proppy> norsetto: I was thinking about adding the viewvc-template in the package
<proppy> norsetto: and ship a debdiff to the DD
<norsetto> proppy: the viewvc-template is the script which is called by the postinst?
<proppy> norsetto: you mean what reaction the DD will have to the script or to lp152438.aminche.com ?
<proppy> norsetto: which is to be called by the postinst
<norsetto> proppy: to your work
<proppy> norsetto: but I just noticed that the package do install viewvc-config to /usr/lib
<proppy> norsetto: and then call it from post.inst
<norsetto> proppy: yes, then you must add it in the package
<proppy> norsetto: I don't feel confortable to install viewvc-template to /usr/lib
<norsetto> proppy: the idea was to 1) file the dug about the upograde failing in Debian 2) attach the solution (adding the # and template_dir) 3) propose your script as a possible solution to 2)
<norsetto> proppy: before going further, it might well be a waste of time continuing
<norsetto> proppy: just test your script in the fesity-gutsy upgrade and see if it solves the issue
<proppy> norsetto: what about reproducing the bug in debian ?
<norsetto> proppy: actually, the best would be to have a sid chroot, install viewvcs and then upgrade to viewvc
<norsetto> proppy: I'm going for lunch now, need some food to shred
<proppy> norsetto: me too
<proppy> norsetto: installing the debian chroot :)
 * norsetto is going to kill some cheese and a sausage too
<norsetto> proppy: see u later then, (A+)
<proppy> norsetto: A_
<proppy> +
<fernando> moin all
<StevenK> norsetto_limbo: You can't kill cheese.
<markvandenborre> please have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/55646
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 55646 in xorg "video playback problem on external monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<markvandenborre> I don't have the necessary hardware anymore to do anything about this
<markvandenborre> and I'm not sure if this is still relevant with recent advances in X
<markvandenborre> I want to act responsibly on the bugs I report
<markvandenborre> is there anything I can do about this?
<markvandenborre> same thing for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer/+bug/43699
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 43699 in gstreamer "totem-gstreamer dvd://01 refuses to play" [Medium,New]
<markvandenborre> relevant hardware and software not available anymore
<markvandenborre> hi EtienneG !
<EtienneG> markvandenborre, my most best craziest MOTU pal !
<markvandenborre> :)
<EtienneG> what are you up to these days ?
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<ScottK> Looks like you all had "fun" whilst I was sleeping.
<huats> ScottK: morning
<ScottK> Hello huats.
<StevenK> ScottK: ... Indeed.
<cosmodad> hi all -- I've been doing quite some Debian packaging in the past and would like to build a Deb package for Ubuntu.
<cosmodad> Question: How do you usually start off? Use a Debian src-rep, get the source and do the port?
<cosmodad> If this is the wrong channel to ask this question (#ubuntu-dev seemed unappropriate), please let me know with a proper referal.
<proppy> hello ScottK
<ScottK> hello proppy
<ScottK> cosmodad: Packages that are already in Debian get automatically synced.
<persia> cosmodad: This is exactly the right place.  If the package is already in Ubuntu, you'd do better starting off with the Ubuntu source repositories.  If a package is already in Debian, wait a few weeks.  If the package is somewhere else, the procedure you describe sounds appropriate.
<ScottK> Most of what we do here is package stuff that isn't in Debian yet (and often then push it into Debian) or deal with changes needed for differences between Ubuntu and Debian.
<cosmodad> ScottK: precisely, I'd like to re-package uswsusp since Gutsy's version doesn't include s2ram.
 * persia points at a few hundred Ubuntu local packages
<ScottK> cosmodad: Does the version in Debian?
<cosmodad> ScottK: yes.
<persia> cosmodad: That was pulled intentionally.  Apparently it doesn't make sense with the Ubuntu kernel.  Have you been having success with it on an Ubuntu system?
<cosmodad> persia: I used s2ram successfully on my machine using Feisty, and so did a lot of other people.
<persia> cosmodad: from what I can see, it was pulled for Gutsy on August 20th.  I'm not certain of the reason.
<cosmodad> persia: the changelog isn't very elaborate on this ("Don't build s2ram. It's not sensible on Ubuntu."), but numerous people have reported it worked fine, so I wanted to give it a try.
<cosmodad> persia: it might possibly be a political reason to support a different suspending scheme, but this is the only one that works for me.
<persia> cosmodad: Probably the easiest way is to pull the uswsusp source from Ubuntu and unroll the last change (patches are available from patches.ubuntu.com if reverting is not obvious).
<cosmodad> persia: I'd prefer another upgrade to the latest version. Would you consider it easier/quicker to do the patch reversal and upgrade afterwards instead of re-Ubuntunizing the Debian package?
<cosmodad> with the latter being at the up-to-date version already.
<cosmodad> that is, the Sid package.
<norsetto> morning ScottK
<ScottK> Heya norsetto.
<persia> Actually, yes.  re-Ubuntuizing the Debian package leaves you with no automated reversal.  reverting the last upload (patch -r) quickly gives you an Ubuntuised version with s2ram, from which you can alter the Debian revision.
<persia> cosmodad: If you haven't already, I'd suggest you look at some of the Merging pages on wiki.ubuntu.com, which contain a couple of different methods for processing a merge (in this case, between the reverted Ubuntu package and the new Debian package)
<markvandenborre> please have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/55646
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 55646 in xorg "video playback problem on external monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<markvandenborre> I don't have the necessary hardware anymore to do anything about this
<markvandenborre> and I'm not sure if this is still relevant with recent advances in X
<markvandenborre> I want to act responsibly on the bugs I report
<markvandenborre> is there anything I can do about this?
<cosmodad> persia: that's good to know. One final thing: Is there a place I can get detailled information on why this binary (s2ram) was pulled out of the Gutsy package?
<cosmodad> persia: a bug has been reported, but no rationale been giving (yet).
<markvandenborre> I'm coming here since xvattr is in universe, but please point me to better places if there are any
<cosmodad> given
<persia> cosmodad: Aside from the changelog, there may be commentary in debian/README or debian/README-source.  If that is insufficient, you could try sending mail to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list.
<proppy> Is the 'package hint' in bash when 'command not found' is gone with gutsy ?
<ScottK> No
<cosmodad> persia: alright. Thanks for the starter
<persia> proppy: it's still available.  You have to install the enabling package (which name I forget).
<persia> cosmodad: Good luck with the testing.  If you get it working, and it works better for your hardware than the alternatives, please open a bug with details as to why it should be restored.
<norsetto> was it command-not-found?
<norsetto> !command-not-found
<cosmodad> persia: I will consider. Elaborate testing with alternatives (apart from "uswsusp works almost out of the box, the alternatives don't"), however, will take a lot (too much?) of time.
<norsetto> !ubotu
<gnomefreak> universe packages need to follow SRU prcess correct?
<gnomefreak> !info command-not-found
 * norsetto hates ubotu with all his guts
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<ubotu> command-not-found: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions. In component main, is standard. Version 0.2.8ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 6 kB, installed size 96 kB
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Yes.  That with the added provision that before the Hardy repos open you need a motu-uvf ack.
<persia> cosmodad: If suspend doesn't work on your hardware with default gutsy, and does work with your hacked package (a report from 0.6~cvs20070618-1ubuntu1 would be even more compelling) that indicates that we've a hardware support issue, which should be raised for deeper discussion and review.  A bug is the best place for such discussion.
<cosmodad> persia: I see.
<persia> gnomefreak: scroll down on the SRU page: there are a couple variations in process for universe.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: ok ty ill relay it to sponser
<norsetto> !info command-not-found | proppy
<ubotu> proppy: command-not-found: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions. In component main, is standard. Version 0.2.8ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 6 kB, installed size 96 kB
<cosmodad> persia: you don't possibly know what's the default hibernation/suspension scheme in Gutsy? (the one that takes please when I use the GUI to hibernate/suspend)
<cosmodad> s/please/place/
<persia> cosmodad: Actually, I know nothing about hibernation at all.  My apologies.
<cosmodad> persia: that's alright. I'll figure it out myself.
<cosmodad> I just need to determine whether the default scheme is still in action on my machine since I've tried quite a few things through the years with ubuntu.
<cosmodad> tried=installed/removed
<proppy> persia: norsetto: thanks
<proppy> dpkg-reconfigure did the trick
 * dholbach hugs siretart
 * proppy hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs proppy too
 * Hobbsee checks the ML/
<Hobbsee> well, the execution sucked, but it looks like i got my point more or less across.
<ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya ScottK
<persia> Hobbsee: It's just a matter of practice :)
<Hobbsee> persia: sure.  i've had lots fo that :)
<ScottK> persia: Don't put Hobbsee in mind of practicing executions.
<Hobbsee> just not usually via ML.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: like you havent done so before...
<Hobbsee> ScottK: :)
<huats> persia: I like your email on the mentoring process
<proppy> norsetto: I sid chroot seems not be the best idea
<persia> huats: Thanks.
<norsetto> proppy: why?
<proppy> norsetto: as viewvc is already updated and aliases to viewcvs in sid
<proppy> norsetto: I just figure that when trying
<proppy> norsetto: I should do etch -> unstable
<proppy> norsetto: or testing -> unstable instead
<norsetto> proppy: hmmm, can you install the last version of viewcvs then?
<norsetto> proppy: and do un apt-get upgrade after
<proppy> norsetto: viewcvs in sid *is* viewvc
<proppy> norsetto: I have to get my hand on the previous previous of viewcvs
<norsetto> proppy: now yes, but there is an old version still available
<proppy> norsetto: and testing seems to have one
<proppy> norsetto: you mean sid chroot with an old version of the deb ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, the one before the renaming
<norsetto> proppy: but thats a bad idea perhaps, because it was before all these changes and is really not applicable anymore to debian
<norsetto> proppy: yes, if you could try etch-unstable this should be
<proppy> norsetto: I'm reading the Debian BTS again
<proppy> norsetto: Now that I've worked a bit on the bug
<proppy> norsetto: I'm pretty sure I'll understand it better
<norsetto> proppy: you can check out which version is available where with "rmadison viewcvs"
<norsetto> proppy: you can also use it with ubuntu with the option "-u ubuntu"
<proppy> norsetto: how do I install a specific version then ?
<norsetto> proppy: either you download it manually, or if you have the repo in sources.list you force the version with apt-get
<qw354> Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼ Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ
<qw354> Ð¼Ð¼.. Ð° Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ ÑÐ¸ÑÐ¾ ÑÐ°Ðº
<qw354> ?
<zul> qw354: we speak english here
<qw354> ok
<huats> is there a step by step for merges ?
<huats> or can anydody points out the big lines ? I've never done one.... and  I'd like too
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> zul: well, if you say so
<norsetto> huats: pick up a merge and we will go through it together
<huats> norsetto: ok
<huats> norsetto: let's try to go for the gallery one
<huats> if it is ok
<norsetto> huats: you choose ... choose wisely though ;-)
<kcotn> norsetto: i am intersted for  #155950 bug but i dont know what to do ??
<huats> :*)
<norsetto> kcotn: if that is the one I sponsors, there is already somebody working on it
<huats> kcotn: I think it is too late
<kcotn> norsetto: yes is this one
<huats> norsetto: did I pick one with no pb at all ?
<norsetto> kcotn: sorry about that, anyhow, you better check out the link I gave on my email first, to get an idea of what merges are and how to deal with them
<norsetto> huats: don't worry, we will find a problem :-)
<huats> :-)
<huats> norsetto: but may be there is still something do with gallery ?
<norsetto> huats: ok, so, what do you want to do, manual, mom or dad?
<huats> norsetto: I have absolutly no opinion
<bluekuja> amachu, do you wanna take care of Bug #156243?
<huats> as being the tour guide, you can choose...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156243 in qtdmm "Merge qtdmm 0.8.10-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156243
<kcotn> norsetto: sure, i am reading these things now :)
<norsetto> huats: ok, lets do mom now, shall we?
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<amachu> yes
<bluekuja> amachu, great, assign it yourself
<huats> norsetto: go ahead
<norsetto> huats: well, you know what a merge is?
<huats> I think
<huats> :-)
<amachu> bluekuja: i just followed the doc
<norsetto> huats: care to share?
<amachu> and have few observations to make
<huats> some patches/modifications has been done to a version, and an other upstream/debian appears that do not includes necesseraly these modifications, so it is needed to merge them
<bluekuja> amachu, I guess you should start working on it, and ask me any question
<norsetto> huats: ok, so, what do you think is the first thing to do, once grab-merge got all the needed stuff?
<bluekuja> amachu, here or directly into the bug, so I can track your progres
<amachu> ok...
<huats> norsetto: in fact that was my first question : about grab-merge
<huats> I've read to use it in a scratch-directory
<huats> but it is not in my pbuilder env... just a scratch directory in my current environment ?
<huats> right ?
<norsetto> huats: yes
<amachu> bluekuja: i have assigned.. and looking through it
<huats> ok
<bluekuja> amachu, perfect, brb
<proppy> norsetto: root@nekun:/usr/src# apt-get source viewcvs=0.9.2+cvs.1.0.dev.2004.07.28-4.1
<proppy> I didn't know about that syntax
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: isn't amazing how many things we learn every day?
<proppy> norsetto: from you yes !
<proppy> norsetto: do you mentor GLSL as well ?
<huats> norsetto: sorry but how do you use grab-merge ?
<norsetto> proppy: mind you, if you say that again I hug you
<norsetto> proppy: do you have the script already?
<proppy> norsetto: apt-get install phong
<norsetto> ops, sorry
<bigon> does somebody know how are handled source name changes if the binary package name are the same? should I ask removal of the source package first?
<norsetto> huats: do you have the script already?
<proppy> norsetto: debuilding viewcvs-0.9.2+cvs.1.0.dev.2004.07.28 to reproduce the behaviour on sid
<huats> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> huats: ok, just mkdir gallery, cd into it, and run grab-merge gallery
<huats> and do I say yes to remove all files ?
<huats> ok
<huats> (I've answered my self)
<norsetto> huats: the first time I used it, I answered no and it deleted everything anyhow :-)
<huats> :-)
<huats> do I have to ask Mathias Gug (the previous uploader) first ?
<norsetto> huats: or maybe was the dad script? Oh well, one of the two
<zul> imbrandon: ping
<huats> :-)
<amachu> bluekuja: the debian unstable (http://packages.debian.org/sid/qtdmm) has 0.8.10-1 while the ubuntu (http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/science/qtdmm) has 0.8.8
<norsetto> huats: this time is ok, he just sponsored the upload
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: but, yes, its good courtesy to check before
<huats> ok
<amachu> need to bridge that up
<huats> norsetto: ok so now everythin is downloaded/unpacked
<norsetto> huats: or you will get fujitsu performin his judo moves on you
<norsetto> huats: or was it judo perfoprming his fujitsu moves? oh well
<ScottK> FYI, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy now says active development.
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: ok, so, have you checked REPORT?
<huats> yep
<norsetto> huats: and? problems? conflicts? looks good?
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Herron is in active development. | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<huats> norsetto: everything seems to be OK
<amachu> bluekuja: i need to create update my pbuilder now for gutsy, i have it for feisty
<minghua> So we are still having both MoM and DaD, right?
<ScottK> Yes
<norsetto> huats: ok, so the first thing to do is to look at the ubuntu changes, those of the old package
<ScottK> The work to merge the U/I never got done
<amachu> am doing a distribution upgrade right now
<huats> norsetto: according there is no conflict
<norsetto> huats: there should be a file called old_ubuntu_package.patch
<huats> norsetto: so I should check that the produced patch is consistant with everything else...
<norsetto> huats: in this case: gallery_1.5.5-pl1-1.1ubuntu1.patch
<bluekuja> amachu, ok, I would suggest you to create a new tarball
<bluekuja> amachu, so you can keep feisty one
<norsetto> huats: do you follow me?
<ScottK> Anyone who did advance uploads to gutsy-proposed, please upload your fixes to Hardy.
<TheMuso> Hardy is open.
<ScottK> Yes
<huats> norsetto: I am
<TheMuso> if people weren't already aware...
<ScottK> TheMuso: see /topic
 * norsetto goes to flood the server
<Hobbsee> norsetto: you cant.  i'm already uploading lots of crack :P
<TheMuso> ScottK: Did so in -devel.
 * TheMuso needs a sbuild chroot first.
<ScottK> No.  This one. I've already set it.
<norsetto> huats: ok, so you checked the ubuntu changes?
<huats> norsetto: in fac I was looking at that file already
<amachu> bluekuja: i downloaded the source from http://www.mtoussaint.de/qtdmm.html#download
<bluekuja> amachu, why?
<bluekuja> amachu, I posted you dad and mom links
<norsetto> huats: in this case its pretty easy, just oneliner
<huats> norsetto: yep and the line for the Maintener field
<proppy> Is there a policy avaiable (like python) for packaging web application ?
<amachu> i missed it?
<norsetto> huats: now, can you check the debian changes with respect to the old debian?
<bluekuja> amachu, and anyway official website doesnt provide a package
<bluekuja> amachu, which is the same of the archive
<norsetto> huats: again there should be a file called new_debian_package.patch
<amachu> ya
<amachu> got it
<norsetto> huats: which is what in this case?
<bluekuja> amachu, so please use or mom/dad or if wanted to do it manually, get the source from debian/ubunut bts
<bluekuja> *pts
<huats> gallery_1.5.7-1..patch ?
<norsetto> huats: ok, so, how do you check that (hint: do an ls before.....)
<amachu> bluekuja: ok
<bluekuja> hardy seems to be open
<bluekuja> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy
<huats> norsetto: lsdiff -z ?
<bluekuja> and the upload flood on hardy-changes confirms that
<norsetto> bluekuja: ^
<bluekuja> cool
<bluekuja> good development circle to everyone
<ScottK> It's already in /topic
<huats> on the gallery_1.5.7-1.diff.gz file
<bluekuja> yep, just saw it
<norsetto> huats: well, that would not give you the delta wrt the old debian
<huats> norsetto: but it gives the files that are impacted...
<huats> right ?
<proppy> norsetto: Last login: Tue Oct 23 11:33:23 2007 from host135-230-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it sweeet
<norsetto> proppy: yes, that was me
<norsetto> huats: yes, but what you need to do, is checking the changes
<norsetto> huats: and the file you told me, contains ALL the changes between the two debian versions
<huats> norsetto: ok, so I can have a look at the changelog in the debian latest version
<norsetto> huats: do we need to know all the changes? All the 13 MByte of changes .....
<norsetto> huats: you have the diff already, is there a way to filter out only what you need?
<norsetto> huats: filter out what you need ......
<norsetto> huats: filter out ......
<huats> norsetto: filterdiff ?
<norsetto> huats: filter ......
<norsetto> huats: yes ....
<huats> (I only knew that tool this morning when talking with you and persia))
<norsetto> huats: for instance: filterdiff -i'*/debian/*' gallery_1.5.7-1.patch > gallery_1.5.7-1.patch.debian
<proppy> huats: isn't amazing how many things we learn every day? (c) norsetto
<norsetto> huats: so, we take out everything outside /debian
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> guys if you don't behave I'm goinna send you out of the classroom .....
<huats> :-)
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: so, what is the change in the new debian wrt the old one?
<jdong> norsetto: waah huats took my apple juice, make him fill out an "I word" card!
<jdong> ;-)
<huats> so now I can ;-)
<huats> oups
 * norsetto considers early retirement from Mentoring
<jdong> norsetto: I think that sticks with you... forever and ever and ever :)
 * norsetto considers his pension
<huats> :-)
 * norsetto decide to stick with it
<bluekuja> jdong, heya :)
<jdong> yo :)
<bluekuja> :)
<proppy> norsetto: I already tied your photo to the wall of my own personnal dojo
 * jdong waits pitti e-mail, but only finds angry messages from his math TA...
<norsetto> proppy: yeah, its good target practice
<bluekuja> jdong, lol
<norsetto> proppy: a nose shot its not worth much though, too easy a target
<huats> norsetto: you want to know the diff in the new debian compared to the ubuntu one ?
<norsetto> huats: no, the new debian wrt the old one
<norsetto> huats: so that we can see if the ubuntu changes are covered, or not
<huats> oh
<huats> ok
<proppy> norsetto: I have to agree, I prefer to aim at the viking-something figure in the back
<norsetto> proppy: thats a cow!
<huats> norsetto: Ok, i understood (I was very long...)  ubuntu changes are not covered
 * TheMuso now has a hardy chroot, for i386 at least.
 * proppy grats TheMuso
<StevenK> TheMuso: Bit slow, aren't you? :-)
<norsetto> huats: ok, so, now check what mom is proposing as new package
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well since I only saw the hardy open notice a little while ago...
<proppy> norsetto: I was able to reproduce the bug on debian
<TheMuso> And, I'm doing other things at the same time.
<proppy> norsetto: upgrading etch -> sid
<proppy> norsetto: let me reply to the debian bug report
<norsetto> proppy: good news, flood the DD with bugs ;-)
<norsetto> proppy: I would open a new bug actually
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<proppy> norsetto: do not know about the debian flow at all
<proppy> norsetto: I heard it is mailed based
<norsetto> proppy: check it out, but I don't think there is another bug on the upgrade
<norsetto> proppy: yes, the debian bts is email based, there should be a script (reportbug I think) that can be used though
<proppy> norsetto: so I should report a bug 'Broken template in viewvc (sid) when upgrading from viewcvs(etch) ?
<norsetto> proppy: sound good, remember to link it to the ubuntu bug, and remove the other bug which is not relevant
<norsetto> huats: again, it is best to filter the patch, something like: filterdiff -i'*/debian/*' gallery_1.5.7-1ubuntu1.patch > gallery_1.5.7-1ubuntu1.patch.debian
<proppy> norsetto: the bug is definitly related to this one too
<proppy> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=409864
<ubotu> Debian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open]
<proppy> norsetto:  For a workaround, either set the template_dir option in the [options]   section of your viewvc.conf and comment out all of the explicit   templates specified in the [templates] section, or just make sure   that every template in the [templates] section is specified with an   absolute path.
<proppy> norsetto: that's exactly what my script do
<proppy> norsetto: and someone pointed that as a workaround in this very bug report
<norsetto> proppy: ah ok, didn remember that
<norsetto> proppy: so, there is no need to raise a new bug then
<proppy> norsetto: nor me, I just read the comments another time
<huats> norsetto: I was doing that... before someone call me on my office phone ;-)
<proppy> norsetto: as the bug is tagged as unreproducible
<proppy> norsetto: I should comment my way to reproduce it I guess
<norsetto> proppy: well, just propose your script in that bug then, and yes, say that you were able to reproduce and how
<proppy> norsetto: and attach a viewvc-template not packaged as a way to automate the workaround
<norsetto> proppy: sure
<TheMuso> I'm assuming dpkg-striptranslations doesn't get run for PPA builds?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: At the moment it does, I believe, but I filed a bug on it some months ago.
<huats> norsetto: so in that diff there is still the old ubuntu patch + some new translations
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ok, thats kinda useful for me at this point, thanks.
<norsetto> huats: ok, if you are happy with it, make your additions to the changelog and prepare the new source package
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: before doing that, I would also check if there is any bug in gallery which could be addressed in this upload too
<Fujitsu> Bug #136399
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 136399 in soyuz "PPA builders performing normal Ubuntu binary mangling" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136399
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: ^^
<huats> norsetto: ok
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Turns out I don't need to worry about it any more, thanks anyway.
<effie_jayx> dholbach, ping
<norsetto> scottk: to be clear on the sru thingie, its just a new dput right?
<ScottK> norsetto: You mean for Hardy?
<norsetto> ScottK: yes, your email just sent
<dholbach> effie_jayx: can you drop me a mail, I'm quite busy right now
<ScottK> norsetto: With a different version number and distro in debian/changelog, but yes.
<RainCT> hi
<norsetto> ScottK: ah! ok, now I understand
<huats> norsetto: regarding the merge
<huats> in the changelog
<huats> I do let mom as the author of the change ? or do I put mine ?
<ScottK> huats: You
<norsetto> huats: try to leave mom and see what happens ;-)
<huats> sometimes I am so dumb
<huats> ScottK and norsetto thanks
<norsetto> huats: so, no new bugs which can be covered by this upload?
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  cool
<norsetto> huats: I wanted to check the debian bug about the ubuntu change, but their server seems to be down (proppy must be sending his bug mails)
<dholbach> effie_jayx: thanks!
<huats> norsetto: I was just preparing the changelog
<huats> I was planning to have a look at the new bugs tonight
<norsetto> huats: take your time, hardy is out only next April
<huats> :-)
<huats> by the way the new target is hardy
<norsetto> huats: yes .....
<huats> so I can create a pbuilder for it...
<proppy> norsetto: few just have sorted 1600+ mail, for finding the accuratly the Debian BTS confirmation :)
<norsetto> huats: I think you can already
<huats> I do need a new bootstrap ?
<huats> debbootstrap ?
<huats> or do I copy the one from gutsy ?
<ScottK> huats: Take a gutsy pbuilder and dist-upgrade it.
<huats> ok
<norsetto> huats: deboobstrap?
<huats> norsetto: I meant debbootstrao
<huats> rrrggghhhh
<huats> debbootstrap
<mruiz> bluekuja, hi! I attached the debdiff related to the bug 150876
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150876 in xen-meta "English error in description" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150876
<bluekuja> mruiz, well done. Let me finish something and I move to it :)
<mruiz> thanks bluekuja :-)
<bluekuja> thanks to you mruiz :)
<mruiz> bluekuja, you're welcome :-)
<huats> ScottK sorry to ask but how do I dist-upgrade a pbuilder ?
<ScottK> huats: You'll have to study the manpage for pbuilder for the exact syntax, but you use login and save-changes (or something close to that) and then gutsy/hardy sources.list and dist-upgrade while in the chroot.
<huats> ok
<huats> the pont I was missing was the save-changes
<huats> thanks ScottK
<proppy> norsetto: send the bug report to BTS think I'll take a few to show up
<norsetto> proppy: yes, give them some minutes
<proppy> norsetto: and checked that the viewvc-template python script fix the pb
<proppy> norsetto: so I will reply with the script attached
<proppy> norsetto: still not yet up :(
<norsetto> proppy: last I checked the server was down
<proppy> norsetto: just stalked your interview in behidnmotu
<proppy> norsetto: nice cat
<norsetto> norsetto: thats grand-minou ;-)
<norsetto> proppy: when one talks to himself, is that a bad sign?
<proppy> norsetto: grand-minou really ? my neightboor one is called minou-chat
<StevenK> norsetto: No. When one answers themselves, it's worse.
<norsetto> stevenk: hehe
<norsetto> proppy: then we have petite-minette and microbe
<proppy> norsetto: posted to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=409864
<ubotu> Debian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open]
<norsetto> proppy: what a fantasy eh.....
<proppy> norsetto: my previous cat was called 'kernel' I know one called 'linux'
<proppy> norsetto: the current one is 'roti'
<proppy> norsetto: Let me reply to the BTS with the patch attached
<norsetto> proppy: you mean, like roti-de-boeuf?
<proppy> norsetto: yes
<proppy> norsetto: s/patch/script
<proppy> I forgot to point the ubuntu bug
<ScottK> huats: I can verify that pbuilder upgrade approach works.  I just did it.
<huats> ScottK:  I did it too...
<huats> I don't know how to check it really works, but i dit
<ScottK> Great.
<huats> ScottK thanks
<ScottK> huats: Try and update your upgraded pbuilder is a reasonable test.
<proppy> norsetto: update bug #152438
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438
<proppy> norsetto: and Debian BTS as well
<mruiz> bluekuja, any advance ?
<bluekuja> mruiz, not yet on it
<mruiz> bluekuja, ok...
<bluekuja> mruiz, gonna ping you when reviewed
<nxvl> where are the rules for debian/patches?
<geser> nxvl: what rules?
<nxvl> geser: it doesn't need rules?
<nxvl> how do patches in debian/patches are apllied, by default?
<huats> nxvl: hey
<huats> nxvl: you remember this morning (yesterday everning for you)
<huats> when you did the merge
<geser> ah, depends on the patch system but usually through debian/rules
<huats> you have added a line in the rules file
<huats> that I already have added
<geser> the documentation should have an example what to add to debian/rules
<nxvl> huats: of course
<nxvl> huats: and i think you are the person to help me on these
<nxvl> huats: how do you make your patches to be apllied
<geser> nxvl: which patch system do you use?
<huats> dpatch
<nxvl> huats: i'm trying to separate the patches and send to the DD as coordinate this $(5 hours ago)
<huats> nxvl: in the rules file you add a line that include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<nxvl> huats: so, i only need to add the patches to debian/patches and list them on 00list sicen you do the work earlier?
<huats> nxvl: dpatch is handling it for you, since it is already in it
<nxvl> s/do/did
<huats> so you can create the other patch
<geser> huats: or if you use cdbs for packaging, cdbs has a ready file to include for dpatch
<nxvl> huats: ]HUGS*
<nxvl> huats: *HUGS*
<huats> and as long as you include them in patches/
<huats> and you list them in the 00list it is ok
<huats> I think
<huats> :-)
<nxvl> huats: lets try is the only way to see if it's true
<huats> you don't have to put a call in the rules file for every patch
<huats> if is your question :-)
<huats> geser: it was debhelper if I remember well...
 * huats hugs back nxvl
<nxvl> huats: yes it was
<proppy> ScottK: have you take a look at bug #155839
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155839
<proppy> what is missing ?
 * ScottK can take a quick look, but not enough to upload it.
<proppy> ScottK: np
<ScottK> proppy: Forgot it was a sync.  That I should be able to deal with.
<nxvl> should i include Makefile.in in the patches?
<tonyyarusso> Oooof....I'm reaching the conclusion that Gutsy wasn't ready for release.
<huats> nxvl: what do you mean ?
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<bluekuja> amachu, heya
<nxvl> huats: lsdiff shows me Makefile.in
<ScottK> proppy: Looked good.  Confirmed and ack'ed to the archive.
<amachu> bluekuja: the MoM says about the conflict
<amachu> in debian/comtrol
<bluekuja> yes?
<proppy> ScottK: thanks
<amachu> in debian/control
<nxvl> huats: as well as the config's i have been told to remove, so i'm not sure about including it
<amachu> bluekuja: fine.. i untarred qtdmm_0.8.10-1ubuntu1.src.tar.gz
<bluekuja> amachu, y?
<bluekuja> amachu, mom/dad does that for you
<amachu> ok..
<huats> nxvl: the lsdiff on the efax-gtk_3.0.15-1.patch right ?
<bluekuja> amachu, small question
<bluekuja> amachu, what did you do for grabbing stuff from dad/mom?
<amachu> bluekuja: yes
<bluekuja> I hope you did *not* wget file by file
<amachu> grabbing stuff?
<nxvl> huats: not, on efax-gtk_3.0.15-1.diff.gz
<amachu> ok
<bluekuja> amachu, yes
<amachu> bluekuja: i used kget
<huats> that was what I meant
<bluekuja> amachu, wrong :)
<bluekuja> amachu, did you read dad/mom istructions?
<bluekuja> before starting up?
<huats> you have to keep them
<bluekuja> amachu, usually guidelines are there to be understood
<huats> since it is not generated
<bluekuja> and followed
<bluekuja> :)
<huats> it is done on purpose
<huats> let's have a look at the efax-gtk_3.0.15-1 changelog
<amachu> bluekuja: dad/mom instructions in?
<bluekuja> amachu, suggestion--> grab-merge.sh
<huats> and you'll see that some modifications happened to the Makefile.in
<huats> and Makefile
<amachu> ok
<bluekuja> amachu, did you see it somewhere?
<bluekuja> in starting guidelines?
<huats> anyway you can remove the config stuff but not the Make one -)
<bluekuja> at dad/mom homepage?
<amachu> i remember
<amachu> just a min
<amachu> yes
<nxvl> huats: that was my cuestion, thnx again
<huats> :-)
<huats> no problem
<huats> it is the first time I can answer someone questions here !!!
 * huats hugs everyone
<huats> to celebrate
<amachu> bluekuja: its in the homepage
<bluekuja> amachu, yep
<nxvl> huats: where was the page where we see the menu policy? did you remember?
<huats> nxvl:  http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html#s3.2
<nxvl> huats: thnx
<nxvl> huats: ok, the patch are in sigle files on debian/patches, but now, how do i remove the old ones?
<RainCT> Hobbsee: hi
<Hobbsee> hiya RainCT
<huats> old ones ?
<huats> old patches ?
<nxvl> huats: yes
<nxvl> huats: backporting to orig source i think
<huats> I am sorry I don't see the point
<RainCT> Hobbsee: about bug 155845, Â«What happened to kubuntu-restricted-extras, ppc?  did it not deserve to have gnash?Â», I didn't add it since gnash depends on libgtk2. should I add it anyways?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155845 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "Description says it will install flash, but it doesn't on amd64 systems" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155845
<huats> by instance what do you want to remove
<huats> ?
<ScottK> fernando: Are you up for the Courier merge?  Let me know if you have questions.
<nxvl> huats: in the lsdiff there is some non debian changes
<nxvl> huats: i want to remove them
<Hobbsee> RainCT: amarok also depends on libgtk2
<huats> nxvl: I think that you should not remove them
<nxvl> huats: what i'm doing is to change the package to dpatch and then i will send the debdiff to the DD
<fernando> hey ScottK, I'm a little busy. but no questions yet
<huats> the changes that are non debian ones are already there in the new debian package right ?
<nxvl> huats: yes
<huats> so there is no point of dealing with them, at least from my point of view...
<ScottK> fernando: OK.  Just let me know.
<huats> but once again maybe I am wrong
<huats> nxvl: you should let them...
<huats> nxvl: I am sorry
<huats> nxvl: I really have to go
<amachu> bluekuja: ya got that
<huats> but I'll should be able to reconnect later tonight...
<RainCT> Hobbsee: ok.. so should I add it there too?
<Hobbsee> RainCT: sounds reasonable
<RainCT> Hobbsee: (and about the patch, I just used   debdiff packagename.old packagename > packagename.debdiff )
<RainCT> ok
<huats> I am sure norsetto  or persia might be able to help on you on that before I come back
<huats> once again, I am sorry
<Hobbsee> RainCT: you need to do it in the dir that the two dsc's are in, iirc.
<Hobbsee> or do you acutally need to do it in the source/  hmm.
<amachu> brb
<nxvl> huats: ok, have a nice day and thank you :D
<huats> thanks too
<nxvl> huats: you don't have to be sorry
<RainCT> Hobbsee: ah yes, sorry, I meant the .dsc's of the old one and of the new one
 * ScottK notes for the record that ESC :wq doesn't work in Kate.
<RainCT> debdiff ubuntu-restricted-extras_10.dsc ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.dsc > ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.debdiff
<bluekuja> mruiz, commented
<Hobbsee> RainCT: hmm.  it shoul dhave worked
<Hobbsee> RainCT: in that case, you need to delete the preceeding characters before the u-r-e/ dir
<Hobbsee> so that the patch applies with patch -p1
<mruiz> thanks bluekuja , I'll continue later
<bluekuja> mruiz, k fine
<bluekuja> amachu, done?
<amachu> bluekuja: not done yet.. got through the grab-merge.sh
<bluekuja> ah ok fine
<bluekuja> :)
<cosmodad> how do I revert patching done between <package>-ubuntuX and -ubuntuX+1?
<cosmodad> I suppose there's some Debian/Ubuntu helper for that. Keyword would be fine.
<RainCT> Hobbsee: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10130712/ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.debdiff
<RainCT> Â«Does flashplugin-nonfree actually work sufficiently well on amd64Â»   about that, I've no idea :P
<Hobbsee> RainCT: looks much better.  what does `gstreamer0.10-pitfdll' do?
<Hobbsee> yeah, i think i saw a few bugs about it, which i why i didnt add it before
<mruiz> bluekuja, I uploaded a new version :-)
<bluekuja> mruiz, checking
<amachu> bluekuja: the MoM says about .DEBIAN and .UBUNTU files
<bluekuja> amachu, after grabbing the source, check REPORT fil
<bluekuja> and find out conflicts
<bluekuja> fix them
<amachu> ok
<bluekuja> debuild
<RainCT> Hobbsee: Â«GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecsÂ», it's requested in bug 155770
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155770 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "ubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't recommend gstreamer0.10-pitfdll" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155770
<bluekuja> debdiff
<Hobbsee> RainCT: oh, that one.  right
<Hobbsee> yeah, i saw that come in
<mruiz> bluekuja, I have to leave IRC right now... I'm waiting for your comments... thanks!
<bluekuja> mruiz, uploading
<dholbach>    QUESTION: where are debtags saved (the tags for each deb package)?
<dholbach> ^ can somebody answer that?
<RainCT> what are debtags? :P
<jpatrick> dholbach: /var/lib/debtags
<jpatrick> (I think)
<cosmodad> how do I revert patching done between <package>-ubuntuX and -ubuntuX+1?
<geser> Hobbsee: Hi, should I get my gnumed-client removed from -proposed (if it's possible)?
<ScottK> geser: I don't think it's possible.  At this point we need to just make really sure it's well tested before --> gutsy-updates
<Hobbsee> i have no idea
<norsetto_> dholbach, jpatrick: I think the local repo is in /usr/share/debtags
<jpatrick> norsetto_: well I have a 2.2MB file in there with them
 * norsetto_ hugs geser, scottk and hobbsee
 * ScottK does his first Hardy upload :-)
 * Hobbsee hugs norsetto
<norsetto> scottK: beat you already :-P
<norsetto> anyone feels giving a look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=399 ?
<cosmodad> I'm trying to revert an upgrade done to a specific Ubuntu package and re-merge with the latest Debian package. Someone (here) told me before I should revert the patches prior to merging.
<cosmodad> Although I've been looking hard on how to revert, I cannot figure it out. Can anyone give me a hint?
<nxvl> norsetto: i have made the changes u ask for, and updated the LP page
<nxvl> norsetto: can u take a look please
<norsetto> nxvl: yes, doing it already
<norsetto> nxvl: I can modify it this time, but next time pls. make sure that the chnagelog entries will wrap before the 80 chars limit
<nxvl> norsetto: oh, i didn't know that, i will keep it in mind
<jpatrick> could someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=379 ?
<norsetto> nxvl: otherwise it looks good, I'll build, test and if its ok upload it soon, thanks for your work!
<nxvl> norsetto: thnk u for your help, i'm glad to work with you :D
 * nxvl hugs norsetto 
<nxvl> now, going to work
<nxvl> see you later
 * ScottK hugs norsetto back.
 * norsetto faints
<jpatrick> norsetto: was it that awful?
<jpatrick> :(
<ScottK> jpatrick: That was me, not you.
<jpatrick> ah, right :)
<dholbach> thanks jpatrick, norsetto
<jpatrick> no prob
<ScottK> dholbach: Noted.
<norsetto> dholbach: was that anywhere close to what you wanted?
<dholbach> ScottK: hm?
<zul> wik/win 10
<zul> damn it
<norsetto> this is new to me. When debuilding a merge, I get this warning message: Ubuntu merge policy: when merging Ubuntu packages with Debian, -v must be used
<Hobbsee> norsetto: because keybuk will eat you otherwise.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: you're not using merge-buildpackage, or whatever it is, from mom?
<norsetto> Hobbsee: no, I just got a debdiff from the uploader and checking it
<Hobbsee> norsetto: it's so that only the changelog up to the last ubuntu version is used - where you set what version is after the -v
<Hobbsee> merge-buildpackage automates this for you.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, thanks
<Hobbsee> norsetto: but keybuk will yell at you if you dont specify the right -v value - or any
<norsetto> well, suppose the last version was 3.0.15-1ubuntu1 and this one fater the merge 3.0.14-1ubuntu1, then the right command is debuild -S -sa -v3.0.14-1ubuntu1, right?
<Hobbsee> fater?
<imbrandon> moins all
<norsetto> sorry: suppose the last version was 3.0.14-1ubuntu1 and this one after the merge 3.0.15-1ubuntu1, then the right command is debuild -S -sa -v3.0.14-1ubuntu1, right?
<Hobbsee> yes
 * norsetto just wonders why he has never seen that before
 * Hobbsee heads to bed
<jpatrick> g'night Hobbsee
<norsetto> g'night Hobbsee
<luk_> good night Hobbsee
<nixternal> imbrandon: it is freakin' afternoon, what are you saying moin for? lazy bum :p
<hypa7ia> hey motu folks, what's the process to get a Universe package updated if an old version was included in Gutsy?
<hypa7ia> barring that does anyone know how to track down a package maintainer in motu?
<slangasek> hypa7ia: universe doesn't strictly have package maintainers, it's collaboratively maintained
<hypa7ia> ahh, good to know
<hypa7ia> so the proper process from what i see in the MOTU FAQ is just to file a bug on the package
<imbrandon> nixternal, haha
<imbrandon> nixternal, listened to lugradio yet this week ?
<nixternal> imbrandon: heh, just starting it right now
<imbrandon> nixternal, about an hour and 5 minutes in see if you reconise someone , fskin hilarious imho
<norsetto> ScottK: are we back to normal for srus  (ie. subscribe ubuntu-sru and not motu-uvf)?
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes, but there is motu-sru.
<ScottK> is /is no
<ScottK> Normal = You upload it to proposed when it's fixed in Hardy and you think it's ready.
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, thanks for that
<ScottK> norsetto: If you found documentation referring to motu-sru, please fix it.
<norsetto> scottk: sure
<norsetto> ScottK: can you pls. unsubscribe motu-uvf from bug 155498 then?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155498 in rutilt "rutilt 0.15-0ubuntu5 crashes while applying a profile" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155498
<ScottK> norsetto: No.  I already deactivated myself.
<norsetto> scottK: ah
<norsetto> scottk: well, never mind than
<zul> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> zul, pong
<cosmodad> how'd one suffix customly modified package-names to differ them from official ones?
<cosmodad> I thought of something similar to backports, e.g. ~cosmodad
<ScottK> Should be fine.
<cosmodad> okey-dokey
<sistpoty> hi folks
<jpatrick> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi jpatrick
<ScottK> Heya sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<adii>  HI
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<deadwill> yo
<deadwill> ScottK, PM?
<ScottK> If it's quick.
 * nixternal just did his first Hardy upload...woohoo! it is on!
<cosmodad> can anyone help me out with a pdebuild prob? All build-deps can be satisfied except for a single one (libsplashy1-dev) even though it's part of the Gutsy rep (which `pbuilder create' was based on)
<cosmodad> how'd I debug this issue?
<ScottK> Is the package in Universe and do you have Universe enabled?
<cosmodad> ScottK: it's in Universe which I have enabled on my machine prior to doing pbuilder create.
<cosmodad> ScottK: do I have to tell pbuilder specifically about this as well?
<ScottK> That doesn't mean it's enabled in the pbuilder.
<ScottK> Yes
<cosmodad> how'd I do that?
<pochu> cosmodad: check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e61fa0f52f7f2442fb20f074813bd691744460b
<ScottK> man pbuilder is the snarky answer.  The easy way is to get the ubuntu-dev-tools package and use the pbuilder-dist script there.
<sistpoty> any main sponsors around that could help me with bug #156362?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156362 in nvidia-settings "should ship NVCtrl.h and NVCtrlLib.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156362
<bluekuja> cosmodad, gedit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc and uncomment other components
<bluekuja> cosmodad, do a tarball update, that's all
<bluekuja> or follow ScottK's advice as well
<bluekuja> ;)
<cosmodad> wow thanks all
<bluekuja> cosmodad, np
<cosmodad> which approach should I prefer?
<ScottK> Whichever one you actually prefer.  Technically the get you to the same place.
<cosmodad> oh I see, pbuilder-dist looks comfortable
<ScottK> Beware that the Gutsy version doesn't actually work for Debian dists.
<cosmodad> ScottK: you mean if I build against Gutsy reps?
<ScottK> No, I mean if you use the Gutsy version of pbuilder-dist to make a pbuilder for a Debian dist, it won't work.
<ScottK> For any Ubuntu release it's fine.
<ScottK> To get it working for a Debian pbuilder takes a bit of hackage.
<slangasek> ScottK: why is that, OOI?
<cosmodad> ScottK: this in fact is supposed to be an Ubuntu release.
<ScottK> It's a bug in the script.
<cosmodad> ScottK: I'm interested in this bug anyway, out of curiosity.
<ScottK> cosmodad: Bug a lot of us do work in Ubuntu
<ScottK> Ubuntu/Debian
<ScottK> Bug 140964 for details.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140964 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pbuilder-dist tries Ubuntu components for Debian distro" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140964
<nixternal> devtools in hardy aren't picking up on the hardy in the changelogs...am I forgetting another hack in order to get the highlighting to go away?
<ScottK> This particular bug is an example of why I dislike bzr repos for packages.
<cosmodad> ScottK: "a bit of hackage" referred to pbuilder-dist only, right?
<ScottK> Yes
<cosmodad> ScottK: in that case, I'll evade pbuilder-dist for the moment
<ScottK> cosmodad: Up to you.  For Ubuntu it works great.
<ajmitch> hm, gutsy not doing much on the laptop when I'm trying to login today
 * ajmitch kicks it
<cosmodad> ScottK: thanks again.
<ScottK> No trouble.
 * sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon> gnight sistpoty
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
 * ajmitch wonders why it is playing stupid today, since there have been no updates
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<imbrandon> zul, i also had nixternaltry that lum , works perfectly
<jcastro> I can't help but read "Hi imbrandon" as "Hi, I'm brandon."
<ajmitch> jcastro: he was imaginative, that's for sure
<imbrandon> jcastro, thats the exact point of the nick ;)
<zul> imbrandon: nifty..
<zul> imbrandon: if you give me about 20 minutes ill have a xbox kernel for you
<imbrandon> kick ass
<imbrandon> i'm gonna blog a bit about it too when i file the bug
<zul> of course i dont know if it will work because you havent sent me one yet ;)
<ajmitch> awesome, I login & kill stuff, and the desktop starts
<imbrandon> zul, you know i owe your fist born beer for life for helping me ;)
<ajmitch> (mostly)
<zul> imbrandon: well wait til he is a bit older and i think he might appreciate it ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> jcastro, thats for pointing out that LR thing, that was hilarious
<imbrandon> thanks*
<jcastro> yeah, I literally fell out of my chair
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hm?
<jcastro> englishmen trying to mimic a southern accent, brilliant
<ajmitch> jcastro: how's your open week going?
<ajmitch> hah
<imbrandon> jcastro, they did something similar when i was interviewd on LR
<jcastro> ajmitch: it's _our_ openweek!
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you were interviewed? I didn't realise we had such a celebrity
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i got a mention on LR , you have to hear it to beleive it
<jcastro> ajmitch: there were something like 260+ people in dholbach's packaging sessions
<ajmitch> jcastro: not for my timezone :)
<imbrandon> i was interviewed on LR in May, todays epsisode i just got mentionede
<jcastro> ajmitch: hopefully it'll motivate some people to get involved, etc.
<imbrandon> mentioned*
<jcastro> I certainly learned from the session
<imbrandon> the Q & A session should be nice too
<imbrandon> i'm gonna pull and see how many other MOTU's i can have with me fielding Q's too
<ajmitch> jcastro: at best I can catch the last session or two
<imbrandon> yea the sessions should be a bit later IMHO
<ajmitch> depends on which timezone you're aiming for :)
<zul> imbrandon: i have to head home but ill be back later
<imbrandon> evening central USA rocks :)
<imbrandon> zul, kk
<imbrandon> e.g. 2000 UTC onword
<ajmitch> makes it fun trying to follow a team who always has irc meetings at 4am local time
<imbrandon> yea that sucks
 * ajmitch just gave up after awhile
<norsetto> where is it possible to find remove requests in debian?
<ScottK> norsetto: Info is here: http://wiki.debian.org/ftpmaster_Removals
<norsetto> ScottK: excellent, thanks!
<huats> norsetto: I am back with my merge
<huats> ;)
<ScottK> norsetto: You're welcome
<huats> what is the good way to create the package ?
<huats> merge-buildpackage ?
<huats> is there a way to use pbuilder ?
<norsetto> huats: I tend to use a manual method, like debuild
<huats> or is it like always
<huats> ok
<huats> so
<huats> same as always : debuild -S -sa
<RainCT> good night
<huats> and then pbuilder build ?
<huats> RainCT: good night
<huats> norsetto: so nothing changes in a merge than from a classical build
<ScottK> If I've got a package with an installed config file, how do I get the question about the modified version of the config file asked?  Call debconf in the postinst?
<norsetto> huats: it is a normal build, I just found out today that we just need to add a -v option to make the changelog trasparent to all the changes since the last ubuntu one, and thats it
<norsetto> huats: but for you this is not necessary, its only if you need a source .changes
<huats> ok
<geser> norsetto: the PTS often has also a record (the bug number) why a package got removed
<geser> ScottK: isn't dpkg handling configfiles itself?
<norsetto> geser: ok, I'm in need just to check if a removal request has been issued already only
<geser> norsetto: check the PTS for the package, it should have a comment about it
<geser> ScottK: some packages use also ucf for config files hangling
<ScottK> geser: I'm finding yes.  I'm researching it.
 * ScottK thought it was debconf, but it is dpkg.
<norsetto> geser: thx, I'll keep an eye on that then
<slangasek> ScottK: if it's a conffile, dpkg prompts automatically any time there's a modified version on disk and the version in the new package has changed.
<slangasek> if it's not a conffile, ucf is the best option
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.  I think I've figured out how to teach dpkg it's a conffile.  I'm testing now.
<slangasek> ScottK: is this an existing config file that you're trying to turn into a conffile, or a new package?
<ScottK> It's an existing package with a config file that was not so marked.  I'm trying to fix it.
 * ajmitch kills esd
<ScottK> Well that didn't work...
<slangasek> ScottK: ah, then you want the magic conversion bits... http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling I think
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.  Looking
<slangasek> ScottK: alas, that page doesn't seem to have the bits that are actually relevant here, so let me summarize
<slangasek> ScottK: if the config file was previously installed as a non-conffile, calculate the md5sum of the version that was shipped in the old package; in the preinst of the new package, compare it to the md5sum of the file on disk; if they're equal, delete the file
 * ScottK appreciates.
<slangasek> ScottK: otherwise, leave the file alone and dpkg's conffile handling should pick up the conflict
<ScottK> OK.  How does dpkg know it's a conffile?
<ScottK> Actually I think I figured it.
<ScottK> I think I missed .conffile vs .conffiles.
 * ScottK tries again.
<slangasek> ScottK: if you're using any of the standard packaging helpers (debhelper, or cdbs+debhelper), any files shipped under /etc are automatically made conffiles
<slangasek> if you're not using them, why not? :), and if you're shipping a conffile outside of /etc you probably should'nt
<ScottK> It's CBDS and it appears to not be finding it (it's in /etc).
<ScottK> Hmm
<slangasek> using the debhelper class?
<ScottK> Good question - checking
<ScottK> I have .../rules/debhelper.mk, but not class.
<ScottK> Upstream ships the conffile in /usr/local and I move it.  Maybe I do it too late in the process.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<slangasek> ah, my mistake, it's not under class
<slangasek> ah, at what point are you moving it?  Please move it as part of "install"
<slangasek> for best results
<ScottK> Looking back, (it's a python app) what I did was patch the provided setup.py to put in /etc.
 * ScottK doens't know why that wouldn't just work.
<slangasek> sounds like it should
<ScottK> Well I'll google some more and see what I can come up with.  Thanks for helping.
 * ScottK may try python-central for the first time to see if it manages it.
<bmk789> are most packages compiled with the -O3 gcc flag or is there a standard optimization ubuntu uses?
<slangasek> the standard optimization inherited from Debian is -O2
<ScottK> slangasek: adding debian/binary_packagename.conffiles containing the path/filename of the conffile solved it.
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> ScottK: there aren't any DH_VERSION lines in debian/rules, are there?
<slangasek> (which I think cdbs might override anyway, but)
<ScottK> Not in debian/rules (it's vanilla CDBS).  I"ll check the build logs
<bmk789> so -O2 is just the default or are packages only accepted at -O2?
<ScottK> slangasek: dh_version does not appear to get called.
<slangasek> ScottK: or a pre-existing debian/version file?  The thing is, debhelper from something like compat level 3 on is supposed to automatically treat any files installed under /etc as conffiles when building.
<ScottK> Nope.  compat = 5 and no debian/version file.
<ScottK> slangasek: I'm in the Debian Python Modules Team.  I'll go bug them as I expect it's something Python packaging related.  Thanks for all your help.
<slangasek> ScottK: as long as dh_installdeb is called, conffiles are really supposed to be registered automatically, so that's really weird.  good luck then. :)
<ScottK> Well that one definitely gets called.
<ScottK> Thanks again.
<slangasek> bmk789: you really shouldn't be using a different optimization level than -O2 without a particular reason, but it's not an absolute rule.
<bmk789> ok thanks
<lamego> what is the DEB*ARCH var ?
<lamego> I mean, which
<norsetto> well, thats it
<norsetto> g'night all people
<norsetto> g'night good people too
<ajmitch> g'night norsetto
 * ajmitch returns to trolling nixternal 
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> bluekuja, thanks for the upload :-)
<desertc> Greetings masters of the universe.  I want to call your attention to a project that I think is extremely worthy of assistance.
<desertc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129081/
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress]
<desertc> Mutter is an open source alternative to Team Speak and Ventrilo, neither of which have Linux clients.  I feel strongly that this software could have a significant impact on Linux desktop users, as no open source VoIP-conferencing-solution is popular, atm.
<desertc> It looked like (a couple months back) that it was in line with getting into Gutsy, but I lost sight of the progress, and now the maintainer seems to be having communication negotiations through the bug-entry-system.
<desertc> As I said, I think this is an important potential package, and I wanted to illuminate the software and it's potential, in case there were some champions in here that felt they could help out.
<desertc> Thanks for all of your help and congratulations on a fantastic Gutsy Gibbon release.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-24
 * desertc looks around for Persia, the noble shining knight who has always saved desertc's packages in the past.
 * desertc mutters something about heroes being ineligible for taking vacations.
<jdong> bluekuja: hey, made some upstream contact with the guy in Debian that does Azureus packaging -- he apparently has 3.0.3.4 fully packaged now. I'm gonna take a look at it for Hardy, but currently I still want 2.5.0.4 for Gutsy because it's more mature (we can later introduce 3.0.3.4 via backports should SWT 3.3 prove to be trivial to backport)
<jdong> hardy's not open for upload, right?
<ajmitch> it seems to be open enough
<jdong> ajmitch: ooh really? :)
<ajmitch> people are uploading, stuff is being autosynced
<jdong> ajmitch: ooohhh
<jdong> *jumps up and down*
<ajmitch> oh dear
 * ajmitch leaves
<jdong> hahaha
<TheMuso> Yep, free rain at hardy for the moment.
<TheMuso> s/rain/run/
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<jdong> bluekuja: Azureus 2.5.0.4 package good for upload into hardy, at your leisure: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu2.dsc
 * Hobbsee waves
 * jdong waves back at Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<eolo999> quit
<jdong> Is the use of Closes: #bugno statements mandatory for bugs or just convenience?
<Hobbsee> jdong: mandatory
<Hobbsee> wlel, i'ts a Good Idea
<TheMuso> And it saves time.
<persia> jdong: Greatly preferred, but not mandatory.  It is mandatory that bugs closed by an upload that don't contain it must be later closed by the person making the change.
<persia> (e.g., if a fix "should work", but you need confirmation from someone with specialised hardware, etc.)
<jdong> persia: at this point I'm "not certain" that htis will be the fix
<jdong> bug 57875 that is....
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
<jdong> which sectuion does it close?
<jdong> just the Ubuntu one?
<persia> jdong: If you're not certain, LP: #nnnn may not be right.  It should close the task for the target specified in the upload.
<jdong> persia: yeah, I have concerns that it's overconfident to close the bug report with this upload without a bunch of confirmations...
<persia> (and avoid "Closes:", that is syntax for uploads to Debian)
<ScottK> It should.  If it doesn't it's an LP bug.
<Hobbsee> jdong: people will whine on the bug if it doesnt fix ti
<ScottK> People will whine on the bug even if it does.
<jdong> Hobbsee: so you feel I should do LP #nnnn?
<persia> jdong: If you don't close it in the changelog, be sure to coordinate follow-up testing, and update the bug as soon as you know for sure.
<jdong> persia: it's my primary pet bug at this point, so yeah I'll be following closely with it
<Hobbsee> jdong: LP: #nnnn yes
<persia> Hobbsee: even if the upload might not fix the bug?
<Hobbsee> well, it's probably helpful to let people know that there's action on it
 * persia wishes there was support for "Closes: LP #nnnnn" vs. "May help with LP #nnnnn"
<jdong> persia: agreed -- there should be a way to associate an upload with a bug without changing its status
<persia> jdong: Do you happen to have time now to file a wishlist bug against Soyuz? :)
<jdong> persia: sure, sounds more fun than reading about recombinant DNA :)
<persia> jdong: Thanks.  Please subscribe me.
<ScottK> jdong: "Gutsy Backports does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker. "
<jdong> ScottK: duh talk about me being braindead
<jdong> persia: is your LP name also persia?
<persia> jdong: Yep.
<jdong> persia: k, you're subscribed :)
<ajmitch> hello StevenK. finished all your merges yet?
<StevenK> Uh huh.
<StevenK> So, no. :-P
 * ScottK did one.
<ajmitch> the freeze is almost upon us
<imbrandon> is finished with his, guess i should grab someone elses
<Hobbsee> oh no, not already!  :P
<persia> Freeze?  Another freeze so soon?
<ScottK> Why not.
<ajmitch> persia: well, december 13
<imbrandon> persia, yea it seems dev cycles went from 5 months to 5 weeks as of late
<ajmitch> I'm sure that the few weeks from now until dec 13 will go quickly enough
<persia> ajmitch: That's only sync freeze, no?
<ajmitch> sure, and the general sync deadline
<ajmitch> though it's fine to keep going until feature freeze
<ajmitch> the import freeze doesn't make much difference for universe & merging
<imbrandon> thought there was no ff anymore
<persia> Ah.  Right.  I tend to try to keep up with updates until UVF, but not as hard.
<imbrandon> no ff and uvf anymore iirc
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no UVF anymore on the schedule
<imbrandon> new freeze names
<ajmitch> and no 'new package freeze'
<persia> imbrandon: What's the new name for FF+UVF+NPUF?
<ajmitch> it's all rolled into feature freeze
 * jdong pbuilders icedtea-java7
<tonyyarusso> I think we should just refer to it as AFAFPOAIFSNGOSADIGPSAFF
 * ScottK calls firsts on gutsy-backports requests.
<persia> tonyyarusso: What's the expansion on that?  It's a good name, but I like to understand...
<tonyyarusso> persia: "I smacked my keyboard and made suer it ended with an F"
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: drupal5 needs a new version, but it's a security thing, so preferably not just a backport.
<ScottK> Definitely not.
 * ScottK waits on the Hardy New queue now.
<jdong> [jdong@jdong:src/prevu]$ apt-cache showsrc icedtea-java7          (10-23 22:02)
<jdong> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), cdbs, autotools-dev, unzip, zip, bzip2, m4, lsb-release, wget, procps, g++-4.2 [amd64], g++-4.1 [i386 lpia], ant, icedtea-java7-jdk,
<jdong> *blink*
<jdong> WHAT???
<jdong> how can a package demand itself as a build dependency?
<persia> jdong: self-hosting bootstrap.
<jdong> persia: s... so how do I get the chicken egg?
<persia> jdong: See gcc for another example
<imbrandon> bootstrap
<persia> jdong: You need to bootstrap the chicken, and then use the package to make the egg.  try building first with the java6 JDK, and see what happens.
<imbrandon> compile and dep and use equivs ?
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> well I'm trying to get a backport of icedtea to feisty
<jdong> rather evaluate if that's possible
<ajmitch> jdong: sacrifice a few chickens while you're at it
<jdong> so do I have to build icedtea with another java stack first?
<persia> jdong: It's non-trivial, as you'll need to double (or likely triple) build on the buildds to get a distributable package.
<jdong> persia: hmm.... that sounds like... fun?
<jdong> well I'll save this for another day, don't have time now, but yeah, one day you guys are gonna have to coach me on this a bit more :)
<imbrandon> most bootstrapping on the buildd's is manual too, good luck asking someone heh
<persia> jdong: If you don't build against another stack, you need to build against a binary pull somewhere).  You might get in touch with the last bootstrapper for some hints on the process.
<imbrandon> like fpc did iirc
<jdong> persia: yeah, I'll put that on my pokelist
<ajmitch> doko can probably tell you about the magic required
<ScottK> lamont has a had a fair amount of practice with self-bootstrapping stuff trying to get HPPA up.  He'll probably kick me for mentioning that, but oh well.
<jdong> ajmitch: I'm gonna e-mail doko
<ajmitch> ok, thanks for informing me of your intent to do so ;)
<jdong> ajmitch: certainly ;-)
<jdong> ajmitch: I am now going to read more about restriction enzymes :)
<persia> jdong: You might also want to try to get snapshot patches for each of the uploaded revisions from patches.ubuntu.com, which may provide some background for the discussion.
<ajmitch> jdong: you do that, and I'll get back to having *far* too much fun with PHP
<imbrandon> mmmm Mt Dew
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
<jdong> ajmitch: Paamayim Nekudotayim == scope resolution operator :)
<jdong> might come in handy some day.
<jdong> talk about a frightening error message to get
 * ajmitch stabs
<ajmitch> persia: topic diff? :)
<persia> ajmitch: "Herron" -> "Heron"
<jdong> I like the way you merge that right herr?
 * jdong shoots himself for that reference :D
<imbrandon> err time that beat goes ...
<ajmitch> persia: it could have been worse
<ajmitch> just take any comment on the name from jdub
<persia> ajmitch: True.  Then again, there could have been an email to ubutu-devel-announce@.  It's really a balance.
<persia> joejaxx: When you have a chance, could you update the stats checker to hunt hardy?
 * jdong goes and tags 90% of the "Azureus blah blah blah blah blah" bugs dupes
<jdong> actually, I'll just NEEDINFO them later...
<imbrandon> ugh
<lamont> jdong: bootstrapping is trivial.  first you get a working binary.  then  you build the package. :-)
<lamont> the key phrase at some early stage is "cross compiler"
<lamont> fwiw, most of the self-depending packages are compilers.
<lamont> although good old xfree86 was self-build-depending.  Just not directly.
<lamont> made for a wonderfully recursive bootstrap.  xorg is love.
<jdong> lamont: I think I know how to do it by hand on my machine, but not how to do it for a feisty-backports upload... that's something beyond my scope
<lamont> jdong: that part is easy.  you work with infinity or myself, and somehow convince us to have time to deal with it for you.
<lamont> since that's the only way to bootstrap in the data center.
 * ajmitch wonders what beer lamont likes
<jdong> lamont: ah, ok; well some day when I don't have exams coming up, we should talk more :)
<lamont> (buildd-admin with root-shell access on the build machines in the DC)
<persia> lamont: Couldn't one (assuming archive-admin collaboration) just upload successive versions with adjusted build processes to fake it?
<lamont> ajmitch: none, actually.
<ajmitch> lamont: that does make things harder
<lamont> persia: that has been done.
<jdong> ajmitch: not like I can buy it for him in this country though :)
<lamont> icedtea7-java would be a challenge in that regard though.
<lamont> jdong: just use gutsy? :-)
<jdong> lamont: if it's a PITA, I won't bother, I'll just reject the SRU for the bug
<ajmitch> jdong: yeah, I forgot about those silly laws :)
<persia> SRU?  Backport request?
<ScottK> jdong: I think it's going to be a backport for Feisty no matter what (iced-tea isn't sneaking in via -updates)
<jdong> persia: SRU for Gutsy, SRU impossible for feisty, backport for feisty is only route
<ScottK> SRU for Gutsy is the way to go.
<jdong> ScottK: that's what I was thinking
<ScottK> Cool
<persia> jdong: OK.  That makes more sense.  I feared you were planning SRU to feisty through NEW of icedtea :)
<ScottK> persia: We got pitti to buy off on a microversion SRU for Gutsy today modulo jdong fixes the package.
<lamont> jdong: bootstrapping is always a PITA
<jdong> persia: ROFL that would be quite a feat to sneak past my superiors :)
<jdong> ScottK: I've got the fixed package ready for hardy upload....
<ScottK> Cool.  I about to head to bed.  persia likes Java.  I bet he'd upload it.
 * persia is trapped on Apple Tiger, and can't do anything useful at all for the next many hours
<jdong> haha, already pinged (blue)(kuja) abut it, let's wait till he wakes up
<jdong> don't want to have a double-upload happen again from my impatience :)
 * persia thinks the U-U-S queue is a good way to coordinate against double-upload
 * ajmitch would rather avoid touching java
<persia> ajmitch: How about tea?
 * superm1 sneaks in
<jdong> persia: yeah, it is, but I bet he'd find it personally satisfying to pull the trigger on this bug :)
<superm1> jdong, you looking for sponsoring?
<persia> jdong: Surely.
<ajmitch> persia: sure, but not iced tea
<persia> (but he may not have a chance)
<jdong> superm1: yeah, I guess, I already pinged one person on it... :)
<jdong> alright, I'm gonna go to sleep now, test tomorrow morning
<superm1> jdong, oh ok
<StevenK> persia: You mean you don't have an account on a useful machine?
<persia> StevenK: Not anywhere I'd trust my key
<imbrandon> persia, debsign -r
<StevenK> If the OS X machine even has the key ...
<imbrandon> OS X ?
 * persia considers carrying a USB stick, but currently spends the day keyless
<StevenK> [13:55] * persia is trapped on Apple Tiger, and can't do anything useful at all for the next many hours
<StevenK> imbrandon: What do you think Tiger is?
<persia> imbrandon: My current client is an all-Apple shop, and likes on-site attention.
<imbrandon> ahhh, fink
<StevenK> Hey, wait, isn't Tiger not out yet?
<StevenK> Or is Tiger 10.4?
<persia> StevenK: That's Leopard (and I'm glad upgrading is not in my scope)
<StevenK> Ahh, right.
<imbrandon> fink-install gnupg
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<persia> imbrandon: Yes, perhaps, eventually.  Doesn't help jdong today.
<StevenK> persia: My mapping of big cats to OS X releases is fairly bad.
<persia> StevenK: No worries.  I read a recent review of Gutsy that complained that monkeys, rodents, and birds weren't very professional.  I'm just happy to have company in the animal codename market.
<StevenK> Well, the official name is "7.10", how isn't that professional? :-)
<sacater> :o
<sacater> Heron!
<sacater> Hardy Heron or something?
<tonyyarusso> Hardy Heron is the development codename for 8.04, yes.
<sacater> cool
<sacater> i still think Hungry Hippo would be great
 * persia thinks 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04? are perfectly professional.  Not every reviewer has that opinion (and "Hungry Hippo" isn't DFSG free)
<sacater> i saw my mates linux mag yesterday, linux-something. Some awesome stuff about Ubuntu was said
<sacater> Xubuntu mentioned too
<sacater> :D
<sacater> was oldish though, it was advertising 7.04
<StevenK> Hrm.
<ajmitch> hm?
<StevenK> Is there an easy way to point pbuilder at some extra .debs to install?
<ajmitch> yes
<StevenK> Can I have a clue? :-)
<ajmitch> I have a hook that runs dpkg-scanpackages, dumps a line into /etc/apt/sources.list, and runs apt-get update
<ajmitch> and I bind mount the pbuilder results directory
<StevenK> That sounds very useful.
<ajmitch> works well enough, I think it's documented on the wiki
 * StevenK guesses a page title.
<ajmitch> PbuilderHowto?
<ajmitch> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ajmitch> if it's not on there, you should just add it :)
<ajmitch> ah, it is mostly there
<StevenK> It already talks about doing it with mini-dinstall.
<StevenK> I discovered I'm allergic to mini-dinstall
<persia> StevenK: Any local repo should do, with any local repo method.  Just set up your local repo, and set the sources.list appropriately.
<ajmitch> I find the hook & running dpkg-scanpackages to suffice, mostly
<ajmitch> it's not the best option, and I get a lot of cruft built up
<Burgundavia> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu#Release_Names <-- damn, somebody had better create that
<pwnguin> sorry, i dont play pokemon
<imbrandon> hahahah
<Burgundavia> sudo make me commiebuntu
<StevenK> /usr/bin/install: writing `/tmp/buildd/bluez-utils-3.20/debian/tmp/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so': No space left on device
<StevenK> DOH!
<imbrandon> ouch
<nxvl> ScottK: ping
<imbrandon> wow installing firefox ( proper ) on a debian box seems so ..... dirty
<imbrandon> let alone a xbox with debian loaded , lol
 * RAOF muses that he'll *almost* be able to sync miro from debian.
<RAOF> Thinking of firefox.
<StevenK> RAOF: Almost?
<RAOF> Well, I think I'll still need to build against a different python.
<RAOF> But no more shall there be a stupid xulrunner -> firefox-dev change in the build deps.
 * StevenK looks at helixcommunity.org and feels his brain turning to mush
<StevenK> RAOF: Hrm, why not?
 * persia wonders if there is a schedule for Python2.5 in Debian
<RAOF> StevenK: Because Hardy's firefox will be built on an actual xulrunner, so I assume that all the other packages will build against it, too.
<StevenK> persia: After 2.6 is out. Bwaha
<RAOF> (See asac's ubuntu-devel post)
 * StevenK digs for it.
<RAOF> Oh, that should be -devel-discus.
 * persia fails to differentiate meaning, sarcasm, and sheer evilness
<RAOF> persia: Some people are trying to transition to python 2.5.  That's why miro/democracy was broken in Sid for so long (yay libboost-python!)
<Wybiral> I noticed Miro uses GtkMozembed which for some reason doesn't link to firefox? I'm using it in one of my apps and I have to use "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox"
<AnAnt> Hello
<Wybiral> Does anyone know a better way (that's what Miro does too)?
<AnAnt> I am doing a package that contains some wallpapers (artwork package), the wallpapers are originally taken from a website (with permission of that site), and then have been edited, how should the copyright file be in that case ?
<AnAnt> some wallpapers (before editing) are with no license, some are with CC license
<persia> AnAnt: You'll need to get a license for redistribution from the original artist.  In most cases, this can be resolved with a freindly email telling them where you got them, what you intend to do, and if they would license it to you under CC
<persia> (technically, you need a license from the copyright holder, but this is usually the original artist, except in cases of direct assignment or work-for-hire)
<persia> s/ei/ie/
 * persia wonders how the MOTU team report in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/ is generated, and why it doesn't seem to reference the content of MOTU meetings
<AnAnt> persia: ok, if some pictures are under CC already, what should be mentioned ini the copyrights file ?
<AnAnt> persia: s/ini/in
<persia> AnAnt: For the content that is already CC, you want to include the CC in debian/copyright (unless CC has become common), and not the copyright holders in the appropriate section in debian/copyright, with a note as to on which files they hold copyright.
<AnAnt> persia: I shouldn't mention copyright holders ?
<nxvl> can someone take a look please -> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/155487
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<persia> AnAnt: Umm.  Sorry.  s/not/note/ :)
<Wybiral> persia, I'm new here, how would I go about finding the status of this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python-extras/+bug/22487
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 22487 in gnome-python-extras "python2.4-gnome2-extras: Python GtkMozEmbed bindings segfault on creating a GtkMozEmbed after destroying one" [Medium,Confirmed]
<persia> nxvl: Have you been coordinating with tiagoboldt?  When someone else is working on bugs for a package, it's generally not considered best practice to prepare a candidate upload.
<nxvl> persia: yes, he ask me to make a try
<AnAnt> persia: copyright holders are the original artists ? or the one who done some editing on wallpapers or both ?
<persia> Wybiral: First, it's best to ask things generally, rather than asking specific people, unless you believe that only that person has the answer.  Secondly, Python and Mozilla are not my strong points.  Third, the status is at the top of the page: the bug is confirmed, but nobody has yet claimed it.
<Wybiral> OK
<Wybiral> Thanks
<persia> AnAnt: The original artists are very likely to have copyright.  The editor may have copyright, depending of the extent of originality (ask a lawyer: I can't define how much is enough).  Also, you'll need to know what license the editor had for the changes: the changes may have been made in violation of copyright (in which case you can resolve this by receiving approval from the copyright holder that the changes may be licensed under the target li
 * StevenK tries to make sense of what the Helix framework is.
<RAOF> StevenK: Isn't it basically Gstreamer, but worse?
<persia> AnAnt: If the editor claims copyright, did not receive a license for redistribution, and includes too much of the original work to qualify as fair use, you need consensus from everyone.
<AnAnt> oh
<persia> nxvl: Thanks for the confirmation.  Is this ready to submit for review then?
<RAOF> Wybiral: That *should* be fixed in Hardy, when xulrunner becomes the thing that all the gecko stuff links against.
<Wybiral> OK, cool. Thanks RAOF.
<RAOF> Wybiral: But, in general, no.  Packages should assume that the dynamic linker can link them to the libraries they need, rather than specifying a path manually (and this is normally the case; firefox is an annoying exception).
<Wybiral> Yeah, I've never had to do that before, but I kept segfaulting if I didn't (I basically couldn't use gtkmozembed). Do you know what causes it?
<RAOF> It's because gecko is used as a library, but isn't.
<RAOF> Rather: there (was) no separate gecko library, but everything wanted to link against it/use it.  So they link against firefox, instead.
<RAOF> But all the firefox libs live in /usr/lib/firefox, which isn't in the dynamic linker's path.
<persia> nxvl: Quick hits: 1) The changelog doesn't mention changes to debian/rules, debian/control (except maintainer) or any of the text/translation changes, 2) dh_iconcache is now deprecated in favor of dh_icons, 3) The bug isn't subscribed to the sponsors team, so nobody has been advised this is ready for upload.
<Wybiral> That's odd (probably not, but I've never dealt with this stuff before, I've always just been a coder, but now I want to help out some)
<RAOF> Wybiral: No, it is odd.  Generally people only link against *libraries*, rather than random parts of other applications :)
<Wybiral> How do you even do that?
<nxvl> persia: ok, i will consider that and send a new one, thanks once again
<RAOF> Wybiral: -L/usr/lib/firefox -lgtkmozembed :)
<RAOF> Wybiral: The problem is, or was, that gecko was very nearly a separate library.  But not quite; firefox wouldn't run on an external gecko (and does, *finally*, with 3.0)
<Wybiral> Oh, OK. I get it now. I thought you meant they linked with firefox (the actual binary file).
<Wybiral> (by binary I mean the executable)
<RAOF> Wybiral: No, just private libraries used by the executable :)
<Wybiral> OK. That's not quite as weird. For a second I was like "WTF?"
<Wybiral> But it's going to be straightened out in FF3?
<RAOF> I'd content it's moderately wierd.  Which is why you have to jump through hoops to do it.
<RAOF> Yes.  Gutsy's FF3 builds already use an external xulrunner, and Hardy's will too.
<Wybiral> Awesome. Will that be accessible to other applications as well?
<RAOF> Yeah.  It's going to be the default gecko provider, so everything should be built against it.
<Wybiral> I haven't messed with the Mozilla source yet, I started compiling it one day but it's so huge... It's intimidating.
<Wybiral> So, I'd love to help out around here. I'm especially experienced with C, C++, and Python. Is there any niche that I might be of use in?
<persia> Wybiral: We'd love to have help tracking down the crashers, and putting in conditional checkers so that the applications don't crash.  There's plenty of apps in C, C++, and python that need that.  Does that sound interesting to you?
<Wybiral> It sure does. Do you know of any simple ones that I can start with to get familiar with how things work?
<persia> Wybiral: Simple bugs, or simple crashers?
<Wybiral> Either one. Is there some "low priority" list that might help me get my feet wet?
<persia> Wybiral: There are a bunch of bugs with the "bitesize" tag that are considered easy to fix.   Hold on a couple minutes, and I'll find you a stacktrace that makes sense.
<Wybiral> OK
<nxvl> persia: updated
<persia> nxvl: Did you subscribe the sponsors?
<nxvl> persia: yes i have
<persia> nxvl: Excellent.  You should expect feedback soon.
<nxvl> persia: ok, now i can sleep and have a good night knowing i gave another hand to the ubuntu proyect :D
<persia> Wybiral: Do you use GNOME, KDE, xfce, or something else?
<nxvl> persia: btw, i write a post about my first merge and thanking you and the ones who help me -> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=145
<Wybiral> I'm a gnome user. I should add that I haven't upgraded to gutsy yet. The last time I tried I got all kinds of tzdata errors and had to switch back to feisty. If I have to, I'll try upgrading again.
<persia> nxvl: Did you get the changes back to Debian for that as well?
<persia> Wybiral: You'll need the gutsy source to track the problem, and you'll need a gutsy environment to test a solution, but feisty is fine for working out a solution.
<nxvl> persia: oh yes, i send a e-mail to the DD and get a response, did u want me to forward it?
<persia> nxvl: No need.  I just wanted to make sure.  Thanks for taking the extra time to make the merge easier next time.
<nxvl> persia: i made all the changes to use dpatch and not touch the code, and send him the debdiff
<persia> nxvl: Excellent :)
<Wybiral> persia: OK. I'll try installing gutsy again today.
<nxvl> persia: he said his going to use dpatch from now on, and about the bug, he will give a look in this days
<persia> Wybiral: At a quick glance, bug #131993 looks like an array bounding error, although you may need a special input document to reproduce.  I'll keep looking for another one.
<ubotu> Bug 131993 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/131993 is private
 * persia grumbles, and looks for sensitive data
<nxvl> how does karma works?
<Wybiral> What kind of bugs are there usually to fix? I'm pretty used to programming isolated software, I've never done anything with the operating system before (and my knowledge of the kernel is minimal at best).
<persia> Wybiral: No worries there.  There's lots of bugs to fix.  Most of what we do for Universe are leaf packages, so your prior experience would apply directly.
<persia> nxvl: Nice work :)
<Wybiral> persia: Sounds great
<nxvl> persia: i wouldn't be able to do anything without your, norsetto's and huat's help, so thank you
<persia> Wybiral: the URL ubotu provided previously should work.  I'll look for another one, just in case that one doesn't catch you.
<Wybiral> persia: Does it say what input is causing it to crash?
<Wybiral> (the w3m one)
<persia> Wybiral: Bug #145413 might also be interesting: to trap properly when the resource isn't available (python), or Bug #145074: trapping failed calls to video status (C)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145413 in miro "miro.real crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145413
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145074 in xgalaga "xgalaga-hyperspace crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145074
<persia> Wybiral: I don't actually know anything about the bug beyond what is written on the page.  Looking at the stack trace briefly, I thought it might be a failure to properly check the array bounds when parsing a <table>, but I may be mistaken.
<Wybiral> persia: If I can recreate it and do some exploring myself, I can definitely find it. I'm not as good at spotting the problem just from a stacktrace (hopefully I'll pick that up).
<persia> Wybiral: Good luck.  If you want more candidates, search for "apport" on launchpad (although not all have nice sourceful backtraces)
<RAOF> And none of the Xgl ones do, stupid stack corrution :(.
<persia> RAOF: Regarding the miro/dbus issue: do you see value in trapping that cleanly, even though it shouldn't really happen?
<RAOF> persia: Probably.  As far as I can remember, Miro only uses dbus to ensure there's only one miro instance running.  I think it should be fully functional without dbus.
<persia> RAOF: OK.  Just wanted to check, as you're the miro master, and it was one of the easy crashers I'd listed.  Thanks.
<RAOF> Yeah, thanks.
<Wybiral> I should probably master reading stacktraces right? Or is most of it done with the actual source (which I think I would be better at).
<persia> Wybiral: I find that I need both to figure out the problem.  The stacktrace indicates where it is broken, but only the source indicates what it is doing.  I usually start around #3 or #4 in the backtrace, and keep stepping out until I have some idea of the intended purpose of the failing function.
<persia> Then, I step forward to the failure point to try to understand what went wrong.  Lastly, I try to pick a good point at which to trap (call between modules, call to function, etc.), and add a trap call, or verify the state prior to making the call.
<persia> Ummm...  That should have read "call between modules / call to library / etc."
<persia> Wybiral: You can sort of cheat with the StackTraceSource attachment, but it doesn't really provide the full understanding one needs to actually fix the problem.
<nxvl> good night!
<Wybiral> OK. I'm downloading the source. I guess I'll see if I reproduce it.
<persia> Wybiral: That's another good way to find them.  Can you make anything crash? :)
<Wybiral> Well this looks odd: "<td rowspan=674227123>"
<Wybiral> As does this:
<Wybiral> 	    if ((tbl->row + rowspan) >= tbl->max_rowsize)
<Wybiral> 		check_row(tbl, tbl->row + rowspan);
<persia> Wybiral: Yep.  That's a big number :)  Perhaps tables shouldn't be allowed to have that many rows? :)
<Wybiral> It looks like the condition checks if it's greater than its limit, then goes ahead anyway (I think).
<Wybiral> But maybe not... lol. It's tough debugging other peoples work.
<Wybiral> Actually, I think check_row is expanding the table if the span is greater, so the segfault could be occurring in check_row.
<huats> morning all
<Wybiral> These people used mixed tabs and spaces for indents and they didn't comment anything! I bet you guys & girls probably encounter this a lot.
<persia> Wybiral: Yep.  It's extremely common that we find these things, because they don't fail for any sane test cases, whereas we distribute to millions of users who do all sorts of things.
<Wybiral> persia: Oh, I was referring to the actual source code.
<persia> Wybiral: You mean the style and commenting?  That's unfortunately not uncommon, although some projects are better than others.  I'd say that finding code that doesn't do what the author expected is more common than really ugly code, but that might ust be the packages I've investigated.
<persia> s/ust/just/
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<norsetto> morning all
<imbrandon> heya fellas
<huats> morning norsetto
<huats> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey huats, hey norsetto
<norsetto> huats: feeling better?
<dholbach> huats: what happened? you're alright?
<huats> norsetto: not really... I am at work but  I don't know what I am doing here...
<huats> dholbach: I wasn't feeling very well yesterday evening... Ihad fever, I was cold...
<norsetto> dholbach: morning, he is just trying to find excuses to be lolled by his gf
 * dholbach hugs huats
<huats> well all the great side of winter
<dholbach> huats: get back to bed!
<huats> :-)
<huats> dholbach: I will think about that in the day....
 * huats hugs back dholbach  and norsetto
<norsetto> huats: hey, you can be contagious :-)
<huats> norsetto: yep
<huats> may be
 * huats shakes hand of norsetto  and dholbach
 * norsetto wash his hands ;-)
<huats> ;-)
<huats> norsetto: I was wondering about the merge... Do I have to fill a bug in launchpad to report it, so that I can attach the debdiff ?
<norsetto> huats: yes, if there isn't one already
<huats> ok
<huats> norsetto: the debdiff that I have to attach...
<huats> is between the latest debian and the proposed ubuntu or between the latest ubuntu and the proposed ubuntu one ?
<huats> latest debian/proposed ubuntu right ?
<norsetto> huats: its debatable, some sponsors wants to see the delta from debian to be able to judge yor work. Therefore its old ubuntu->new ubuntu. SOme other sponsors are confused if you do that, they expect a debian-> new ubuntu, so, what I did as a contributor was attaching both
<norsetto> I really don't know, why is people not listening, why do I have to repeat 3 times the same stupid thing
<norsetto> huats: that wasn't meant at you :-)
<huats> norsetto: I was about to ask you :-)
<norsetto> hauts: I'm an old grumbler anyhow ;-)
<huats> do say that
<huats> you are not even as old as my gran dady ;-)
<norsetto> huats: there is always somebody older than you .....
<norsetto> huats: even if they are thinning rapidly :-/
<huats> you are to hard with yourself
<norsetto> huats: oh don't worry, I'm used to that, I had to live with myself for long enough
<huats> :-)
<tonyyarusso> Oh boy
<tonyyarusso> Someone turned on the auto-syncer
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Yeah, it has been running for a while now... quite a bit to sync.
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: remind me some time (later) that I need to find out how to get a package into Debian too.
<norsetto> tonyyarusso: leave any hopes you who are about to enter
<tonyyarusso> norsetto: Eh, I just need to remember not to let my e-mail go unchecked for a day or two
<norsetto> tonyyarusso: :-)
<pkern> Does anyone know how to recompile the kernel "the Ubuntu way"? The Debian way doesn't work. And I'm so deeply disappointed by Gutsy for hardware incompatibility.
<imbrandon> zomg , gmail finaly has IMAP ( well for some accounts ) sadly my main account dident get the first round
<Fujitsu> pkern: Isn't there a README.source or so in debian/?
<pkern> imbrandon: IMAP "beta" or what?
<imbrandon> pkern, there is a wiki page about it
<Fujitsu> The build system was rewritten early in Gutsy, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Hah.
<pkern> There surely is a wiki page about it.
<imbrandon> yea the gutsy build system is totaly rtedone
<pkern> But whyever kernel-package and its make-kpkg does not work in a sensible way with the Gutsy kernel...
<imbrandon> i just spent 2 days adding a new FS ;)
<pkern> And I will beat xserver-xorg to death next time I see it.
<norsetto> pkern: please add a couple of kicks from me too
<imbrandon> pkern, if you are just needing to fix a module try linux-ubuntu-modules
<imbrandon> or linux-backport-modules
<pkern> To fix a module. )':
<pkern> Well, fglrx-driver-source does not even work IN ANY WAY.
<pkern> Ok yeah I admit, I used the alternate installer, but still it shouldn't be necessary to invoke the rescue mode to do fixups directly after installation.
<pkern> Most fun was when I discovered that the -rt kernel is actually compiled with SLAB instead of SLUB.
<pkern> But still doesn't suspend on amd64, hah.
<imbrandon> zomg i'm in love
<norsetto> imbrandon: sorry, I'm already engaged
<imbrandon> lol , with gmail IMAP
<Fujitsu> Yay, the autosync just finished.
<imbrandon> from lenny or ....
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sid...
<imbrandon> sid == lenny
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> Not last time I checked, and that wasn't very long ago.
<geser> isn't lenny == testing != sid?
<imbrandon> err yea
<Fujitsu> geser: That's right.
<imbrandon> damn repos
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i need sleep
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: So you do... what are you doing up?
<imbrandon> no idea its almost 5am
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought...
<imbrandon> time to start a debootstrap then off to bed i go
<norsetto> thats racism, experimental is unnamed
<pkern> Fuck ATI.
 * pkern goes eating and then installing lenny. Ubuntu just doesn't work for me(tm). And if that doesn't help I'll revert to Gentoo.
<pkern> "Frustessen" in German.
<tepsipakki> pkern: so you need fglrx for some reason?
<pkern> tepsipakki: No open source support for my card.
<tepsipakki> vesa doesn't work?
<pkern> After about 20 hard reboots in a few days I'm pissed off.
<pkern> tepsipakki: Tell that xserver-xorg's postinst which corrupts my display reasonably well.
<tepsipakki> bug 156325
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156325 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "New fglrx 8.42.3 to Gutsy" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156325
<pkern> "Ubuntu is now running in low-graphics mode!" "Continue" -> drops back to the console which is fscked because the letters are too large.
<tepsipakki> pkern: it will be overhauled for hardy
<pkern> The new fglrx is out? o_O
<tepsipakki> don't you read slashdot?-)
<pkern> And why is this Fix Committed.
<pkern> tepsipakki: No.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Yeah, a little while ago.
<Fujitsu> Like, within the past 24 hours.
<tepsipakki> pkern: it has been packaged for testing, that's why
<tepsipakki> pkern: did you try xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd?
<pkern> tepsipakki: I tried it from git a week ago, didn't work.
<tepsipakki> right, it's still in flux
<pkern> Now the reports about the new fglrx aren't too good either.
<pkern> Well. afk \:
<pkern> Yay for reports that suspend doesn't even work with the new driver.
<norsetto> pkern: what ati model you have?
<pkern> X1600
<norsetto> pkern: ok, fglrx does indeed not suspend on an x800
<pkern> Which is a regression over feisty, yes.
<norsetto> pkern: as far as I know, it never did
<StevenK> It seems my X40 with Intel doesn't suspend
<pkern> norsetto: As far as I experienced it works very well with fglrx+kernel 2.6.22+SLUB
<pkern> s/SLUB/SLAB/ *cough*
<norsetto> pkern: in any case, I'm sticking with 1:6.6.3-2ubuntu6 which works wonders for me
<pkern> bryce: How should I build the fglrx kernel module from your testing debs?
<pkern> Hm the xorg driver alone already looks better.
<pkern> Time to connect the beamer again.
<pkern> Or projector or how it is called in English.
<tepsipakki> pkern: bryce is asleep, but it seems that some files are missing from that directory
<tepsipakki> like diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
<pkern> tepsipakki: There's more missing.  Like e.g. linux-restricted-modules.
<pkern> tepsipakki: module-assistant already broke on the previous versions of fglrx-kernel-source, and this one is no exception.
<pkern> The new fglrx driver certainly looks much better, but I have a bad "Testing use only / Unsupported hardware" overlay on the display outputs.
<pkern> Because I don't have the kernel module.
<tepsipakki> pkern: ah, right :)
<pkern> Well, at least xinerama works now, the diverse pdf readers just broke down on the 2nd display, but well...
<pkern> Fullscreen works, so that's it.
<Riddell> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Universe lacks any upload stage
<dholbach> Riddell: imbrandon wanted to update the page for that anyway - imbrandon: can you add that?
<fernando> moin all
<proppy> hi
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i'm sure i didnt say *exactly* that :)
<jdong> bryce: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5975
<jdong> bryce: just a heads-up ( I posted on the bug report too) fglrx 8.42.3 is not a problem-free release
<jdong> and IMO at this point is not good Gutsy material
<huats> bluekuja: thanks for the dbmail merge....
<huats> :-)
<bluekuja> huats, np :)
<huats> I'll try to workon it tonight
<bluekuja> great
<norsetto> proppy: want to try something different?
<proppy> norsetto: why not
<proppy> norsetto: I've to go take my japan classes in 1hour and 30 minutes
<siretart> jdong: hi
<siretart> jdong: what are you going to do wrt NotAutomatic in *-backports?
<norsetto> proppy: don't worry, this is pretty long term; try to give a look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129081
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress]
<norsetto> arigato
<proppy> norsetto: what need to be done ?
<norsetto> proppy: about everything
<proppy> norsetto: someone seems already on it (for the packaging side)
<proppy> norsetto: Justin losts interest in it ?
<norsetto> proppy: I think so
<proppy> norsetto: 1st thing to do ?
<proppy> norsetto: ping him via a comment ?
<norsetto> proppy: the first thing would be to get in touch with upstream and see what they have done, they have a pretty basic debian ready
<proppy> norsetto: what communication channel do you suggest ?
<proppy> norsetto: the bug report ?
<proppy> norsetto: or private mail ?
<norsetto> proppy: up to you
<proppy> norsetto: irc ?
<proppy> norsetto: ok
<proppy> norsetto: bug report seems ok to me
<norsetto> proppy: just assign it to yourself and go
<proppy> norsetto: Is there only one assign slot ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes
<proppy> norsetto: I will just suscribe then, I didn't feel confident enough to kick someone
<proppy> norsetto: I've post a comment thought
<norsetto> proppy: oh gosh
<proppy> norsetto: (L)
<norsetto> proppy: there you are, you are the assignee
<proppy> kss
<fernando> hey ScottK
<proppy> norsetto: where can I order a vicking cow ?
<proppy> norsetto: Is it unique ?
<fernando> ScottK, courier upstream release is 0.57.1, debian version is 0.57.0-1. Can I merge and upgrade in same time?
<norsetto> proppy: as if I knew, its my beauparents
<ScottK> fernando: Just merge the Debian one.
<norsetto> proppy: beauxparents? anyhow, those ....
<ScottK> fernando: Unless there is a REALLY critical bug fix in 57.1
<fernando> ScottK, k
<proppy> norsetto: beaux - parents
<norsetto> proppy: as you can see from the singularity of the item, he is an architect ....
<LucidFox> Please review! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=403
<gilligan_> hi
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me where can I find Matthias Klose?
<siretart> slytherin: in this channel. his nick is 'doko'
<siretart> dholbach: have you seen 'ivoks' lately?
<slytherin> doko_: ping
<siretart> slytherin: better just ask your question. if you need an answer, try email
<slytherin> siretart: I just wanted to know if I can assign a icedtea related bug to him.
<siretart> since he did the relevant uploads, I'd think so
<doko_> slytherin: no, please don't. I am subscribed to this package
<slytherin> doko_: Ok. I will keep in mind.
<slytherin> doko_: Do you recommend me to try your PPA for latest version?
<norsetto> lucidfox: sometime it helps to test your stuff before submitting it
<doko_> slytherin: what do you want to try?
<slytherin> doko_: I don't mind using it for my regularly. I use eclipse daily and having a fast JVM always helps.
<LucidFox> norsetto> sorry
<norsetto> LucidFox: its ok
<gilligan_> hm, i am interested in the upstart process of providing an early job-controlled shell.. it first closes any open file descriptor, then starts  a new session and open()'s /dev/console ?
<dholbach> siretart: in some channels like #ubuntu-bugs but not very actively
<proppy> hi
<contrast83> Anyone know if Checkinstall can make a package for something that uses setup.py to install rather than make install?
<persia> contrast83: You really don't want to do that, although it probably can.  The current version of checkinstall has several issues.
<contrast83> persia: Oh alright. Thanks for the tip.
<contrast83> Issues that weren't in Feisty's version?
<persia> contrast83: If you have a working setup.py, you should be able to get a package working with a fairly simple debian/rules.  Take a look at a couple similar python packages for hints.
<contrast83> Cool.
<ScottK> contrast83: And if you're just using it locally python setup.py build, sudo python setup.py install will almost always give you a reasonable result.
<persia> contrast83: No, the old issues.  There wasn't really any effort to improve it since then.  Example problems include not handling dependencies correctly, and not handling conflicts correctly.  This can make packages that work for the person creating them, but fail for everyone else, and it's really hard to debug.
<persia> ScottK: Does that uninstall cleanly?
<ScottK> Ahh.  Dunno.
<contrast83> Umm... Isn't that the purpose of Checkinstall?
<ScottK> I don't think I've ever actually tried to do that.
<bryce> jdong: yup, I know, but thanks
<persia> ScottK: I think packages are better :)
<ScottK> persia: I agree.
<ScottK> persia: I think disutils setup.py is better than checkinstall.
<persia> contrast83: That is the intention of checkinstall, but the current implementation is lacking several important functions.  There are a couple people looking at alternate solutions to make it easier, but right now I'd recommend normal packaging (even though it's a little harder) rather than checkinstall.
<persia> ScottK: I'll agree with that.
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> hi bluekuja ! thanks for the upload :-)
<persia> contrast83: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy has a section entitled "CDBS + distutils" which includes a debian/rules file which should work for most proper python packages.  You'll still have to fiddle with control, and put something in copyright, but it may make the process fairly simple
<bluekuja> mruiz, :)
<contrast83> persia: Nice, thanks a lot. :-)
<persia> contrast83: No problems.  Are you packaging something new for Ubuntu?
<mruiz> bluekuja, I have a question about the debdiff: do I need to remove always stuff like /tmp/* ?
<bluekuja> yep
<contrast83> persia: Was just making to want a package of Nicotine's latest release. The one in the repos seems to be broken.
<contrast83> Plus the latest release has a few features I want.
<contrast83> heh... *wanting to make
<persia> contrast83: Is the upstream version Ubuntu distributes broken, or just the distributed package?
<contrast83> Haven't checked upstream yet... :-\
<persia> contrast83: Also, you might be able to just grab the debian/ directory from the Ubuntu package, and use that for your new package.  Patches, etc. might affect this, but it's an easier starting place than nowhere.  If you have it working, and are willing to get it linda and lintian clean, I'd encourage you to send your package for consideration, and save someone else a bit of work for hardy.
 * contrast83 is very new at MOTU/dev-related stuff, obviously.
<persia> contrast83: This is the place for questions :)
<contrast83> I just need to do some reading. I've got all the resources I need bookmarked, just been lazy.
<mruiz> bluekuja, Can you give me an opinion of the bug 149093, please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149093 in keepassx "typo in keepassx launcher shortcut text" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149093
<bluekuja> mruiz, yeah, let me see
<bluekuja> mruiz, seems ok
<bluekuja> mruiz, I'm finishing a merge atm, after that I move to your bug
<bluekuja> I assign it to me
<mruiz> thanks... I want to learn about merges too ! :-)
<bluekuja> mruiz, well, I can mentor you on a merge later too
<bluekuja> mruiz, when I've finished this, I open a bug for you
<mruiz> bluekuja, it would be great!
<mruiz> thanks bluekuja
 * mruiz waves
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> mruiz, gonna ping you in some minutes
<mruiz> bluekuja, sure!
<zul> mruiz: why did you upload the xen-meta source?
<nxvl> norsetto: i think the .po are ubuntu changes in some how, cause 1) my debdiff is betwen new debian and new ubuntu 2) on DaD there are conflicts with this 2files
<norsetto> nxvl: you mean changes coming from the old ubuntu?
<bluekuja> zul, he did a small typo fix
<mruiz> zul, bluekuja did it. I fixed a typo
<nxvl> norsetto: yep
<norsetto> nxvl: strange, are they listed in  the changelog?
<nxvl> norsetto: let me see
<bluekuja> zul, it was a mentoring bug, and anyway you could check lp bugs as far as you are the maintainer
<zul> bluekuja: i would appreciate a heads up next time
<bluekuja> zul, huh?
<bluekuja> zul, I got told to mentor him through it
<bluekuja> zul, and that's what I've done
<bluekuja> the bug was there since days
<zul> bluekuja: whatever
<bluekuja> zul, next time I gonna give up when I see your name as maintainer
<bluekuja> norsetto, please dont assign me zul's stuff next time
<bluekuja> if that's the reaction
<geser> norsetto, nxvl: on some merges there are also changes to .po files but I didn't find out yet where they come from, I usually ignore them
<hellboy195> bluekuja: also we can start tomorrow with merging ;)
<norsetto> geser: yes, they certainly do not come for the ubuntu changes
<bluekuja> hellboy195, yeah ;)
<nxvl> norsetto: in the changelog it's only a german traduction change but it's from debian :S
<nxvl> norsetto: but look -> http://dad.dunnewind.net/gramps/REPORT
<nxvl> norsetto: how it is posible this files conflicts is there is no change at all?
<norsetto> nxvl: well, there is certainly a problem with the tools, so you have still two options to pursue
<norsetto> nxvl: try with a manual merge, its not vey difficult and you know all the changes very well by now
<norsetto> nxvl: just remember that the changelog must reflect all the previous ubuntu changes
<nxvl> norsetto: ok, i will give a try
<norsetto> nxvl: just give it a try, if it doesn't work its ok
<nxvl> norsetto: i've compare es.po from orig.tgz and 1ubuntu1 with "wc -l" and there is a diference
<nxvl> norsetto: orig->16828 ubuntu->18772
<nxvl> ScottK: ping
<ScottK> pong
<ion_> bang
<ScottK> norsetto and bluekuja: zul does a lot of work on xen stuff and I think it's not at all unreasonable that if someone has worked a lot on a package you give them the courtesy of some discussion before you change stuff in it.
<nxvl> ScottK: im working on LP bug #155487, which you offer to mentor, and with norsetto i found something wrong
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
<bluekuja> ScottK, I think fixing themself to themselves it's not something it would broke up everything
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: eparse.  that's not valid english.
<ScottK> nxvl: I'll have a look.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, sorry?
<nxvl> ScottK: the debdiff im getting from new debian and new ubuntu has some .po files
<ScottK> nxvl: Checking
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: your statement was not valid english.  please rephrase, so that people have a chance of understanding what your'e trying to say.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, which one?
<nxvl> ScottK: the problem is that norsetto remove all the debdiff
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: the one right before i said eparse.
<Hobbsee> ie, [01:41] <bluekuja> ScottK, I think fixing themself to themselves it's not something it would broke up everything
<nxvl> ScottK: there where 5.3 Mb long
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I just said it was a fix to move themself to themselves
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, what's wrong?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: errrr....
<Hobbsee> okay, does anyone *else* understand that, and i'm just thick tonight?
<Hobbsee> or does that make no logical sense, in any language?
<ScottK> I got it.
<norsetto> bluekuja: tell me in italian
<ion_> My parser is not sufficient to get it either.
<Hobbsee> ion_: ^5 hooray!
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mind explaining?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: means themself/themselves was the change
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ohhh!  as in, in the control file.  right.
<slangasek> so the reason it doesn't make sense is because there are quotes missing? :)
<bluekuja>  Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/150876
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150876 in xen-meta "English error in description" [Low,Fix released]
<norsetto> bluekuja: no need, I understand it too now that scottk explained
<Hobbsee> slangasek: NFI :)
<bluekuja> norsetto, you assigned that to me...
<bluekuja> norsetto, maybe you assign stuff without checking
<bluekuja> what's there
<bluekuja> cool
<ion_> Quoting âthemselfâ and âthemselvesâ would have helped. :-)
<norsetto> bluekuja: I would think before talking, can you show to me where in the history I assigned this to you?
<ScottK> So back to the point, if someone has worked a lot on a package, it is, I think, as a matter of courtesy if nothing else, good to check with them.
<zul> the point is that xen-meta is changing for hardy and that was going to be fixed anyways..
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: btw, part of the job of *being* a mentor is checking for people that you should notify...and passing that onto the mentoree.
<bluekuja> norsetto, let me grab the log
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: i know you're new, so may not have realised that.  do you remember times when people would say "send this back to debian?"
<ScottK> bluekuja and norsetto: Both of you are still pretty new.  Part of working as a team on maintenance is noticing work other people have done and being considerate of that work.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I work in debian as well, so I guess it's something I do every day (check torrentflux package on debian/ubuntu now)
<ScottK> I'd be upset too if you'd done the same on clamav or some other package I work a lot on.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: fair enough, but you cant assume that others do the same thing :)
<norsetto> ScottK: I'm still waiting to see why I'm called in this mess
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: if you hadnt heard me earlier, please also leave all merges assigned to me, starting with a K, for the same reason.
<ScottK> norsetto: bluekuja pointed the finger at you.  I don't know.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i think bluekuja's trying to blame you for something he did, not you.  i'm explaining that this is, in fact, wrong
<norsetto> scottK: yes, he is trying to discharge blame on somebody else, he is just a 17 yes old you should know
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.  No trouble.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i dont think it's the receptionist's job to ensure that the MOTUs are notifying the right people, every single upload.  especially when the mentors outnumber the receptionists.
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, I'm being called in, so I'm waiting to know why
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i thought we explained that :)
<jdong> am I the only one who thinks this situation is being blown out of proportion? :-/
<nxvl> norsetto, ScottK i found, the problem, as norsetto says, the .po where upstream changes. Fixing
<ScottK> nxvl: Great.  Sorry I got distracted.
<Hobbsee> jdong: perhaps not, but i'm suspecting it's happening for a fair few people, and will continue to happen unless people get warned *not* to do it.
<jdong> Hobbsee: looks to me like a momentary lapse of judgement where bluekuja thought that it was a trivial enough change that he didn't need to notify the maintainer.... does that really deserve attacking his maturity?
<jdong> Hobbsee: warning people not to do it would be a mail to the MOTU list... not a public lynching, no?
<Hobbsee> jdong: i dont recall attacking his maturity?
<Hobbsee> jdong: hah.  we just saw what the last public ML post did, too.
<jdong> 11:48 < norsetto> scottK: yes, he is trying to discharge blame on somebody  else, he is just a 17 yes old you should know
<jdong> completely unnecessary comment IMO :-/
<Hobbsee> jdong: well, i'm not norsetto....so you'll really have to take that up with him...
<bluekuja> norsetto, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1283/
<jdong> Hobbsee: I'm just pointing out in general... not trying to single anyone out
<jdong> that's not any of my business to do
<bluekuja> norsetto, and I'm not 17 years old anyway
<Hobbsee> and dholbach's away again.
 * ScottK thinks sufficient points have been made and now it's about time for people to move on.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: btw, one of the important things about small change uploads is that people are attempting to use less bandwidth - so making more than a one line change each upload.  which is why they tend to be using stuff like bzr.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: zul likely had other changes to push as well.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I know and I know. Next time PLEASE don't assign me a mentoree for a bug like this
 * Hobbsee wonders when she started doing assigning.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, not you :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: it's not just this - it's various other packages that people tend to touch a lot.  which makes it hard, i know.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: if your'e nto sure, give the "maintainer" a yell - can i handle this, or do you have other patches to push too?"
<jdong> Hobbsee: is there a process for a MOTU to do mentoring, or is that just "MOTU's can mentor whenever they choose"?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: i think they wont eat you if you do that - whereas they may well do if you do uploads without putting it thru them :)
<norsetto> bluekuja: nobody assigned you and you know well, you have agreed to help mruiz out, if you don't know how to do that, you should not offer to do it
<Hobbsee> jdong: i dont follow the mentoring stuff, tbh.
<Hobbsee> jdong: at least, not beyond the original page
<bluekuja> norsetto, sorry? that mail talks clear
<norsetto> bluekuja: don't blame other people for your faults
<jdong> Hobbsee: ok, I'm just trying to understand the source of this problem, instead of blaming the individuals involved... :-/
<bluekuja> norsetto, I don't want to discuss about this more, thanks
<Hobbsee> norsetto: bluekuja calm down, calm down
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks for your advices, and I hope this wont happen again, it's simply crazy
<Hobbsee> jdong: the source of the problem is that various MOTU's have particular pet packages that they touch, almost exclusively.  when others upload them, without telling, it can be quite frustrating - because they planned to do other uploads at the same time, because they were already working on doing the merge, so the codebase would change a lot, or whatever.  It's also a problem if the equivalent-NMU upload breaks it, and the maintainer gets
<Hobbsee> stacks of bugs, goes "oh my, what's happened here?" and ifnds it's a result of the equivalent-NMU.  And the maintainer gets blamed for the breakage, often.
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem.  i hope so too.
<siretart> yay. all my merges finished (besides xine-lib, where I'm waiting for the debian package to be approved) :)
<Hobbsee> siretart: how much does xine-lib change?
<ScottK> bluekuja: Do you understand what zul, Hobbsee, and myself are asking for here?  Understanding for doing better in the future is all I'm worried about.
 * Hobbsee should do hers
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i think he does.
<siretart> Hobbsee: quite a bit. introduces new binary packages, plus requires small adjustments in frontend packages
<jdong> Hobbsee: I understand. What kinds of things do you think can help solve this? More communication definitely -- anything that we can improve in the build infrasturcture? Like upload notifications to package subscribers, or an approver for uploads to a package?
<Hobbsee> jdong: the maintainer is supposed to get emailed anyway - but i think this now goes to the motu list.
<siretart> can someone give me a terse summary of the current topic? what's the problem?
<bluekuja> ScottK, I understand. But as far as a package is maintained by the community, I guess just pinging the "one who cares about it" would be ok.
<ScottK> jdong: I don't think it's a change the infrastructure/write more rules kind of situation.  I think it's a matter of protecting a culture that's respectful of the contributions of others.
<jdong> siretart: bluekuja uploaded a change to xen without notifying zul
<jdong> siretart: why it evolved to 30 minutes of arguing, that's beyond me
<ScottK> bluekuja: Sounds good enough to me.
<Hobbsee> jdong: documenting what's expected, i think.
<bluekuja> ScottK, as you know we havent exclusive maintenance of a package like debian
<ScottK> bluekuja: Agreed.
<Hobbsee> siretart: ubuntu equivalent of a NMU, without notifying the maintainer.
<bluekuja> ScottK, ok fine ;)
<Hobbsee> siretart: for a maintainer who often touches the package in question
<siretart> and the upload did cause trouble?
<jdong> siretart: not that I see... it was a typo in a description deb/control
<bluekuja> siretart, a small typo fix ("themself" to "themselves"
<ScottK> bluekuja: But that doesn't mean that if someone clearly (from debian/changelog) has focused on a package, you shouldn't give them the courtesy of a discussion before uploading.
<bluekuja> make this
<zul> siretart: no its a communciation thing
<siretart> if yes, why isn't xen managed in a VCS like bzr?
<siretart> zul: wouldn't managing xen in bzr help then?
<ScottK> Because a VCS doesn't help much for one person
<bluekuja> ScottK, true
<jdong> Hobbsee: I think making these expectations more clear is a good start...
<siretart> ScottK: I beg to differ
<bluekuja> leaving for a while
<jdong> Hobbsee: if this is more than an isolated problem, I'd have to conclude there's something that needs improving with MOTU training
<siretart> cya bluekuja!
<ScottK> siretart: From my perspective unless MOTU as a whole agrees to bzr, then putting stuff in bzr is at best divisive.
<Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, well.  there is that.  it seems that we don't really check for whether people are responsible, in terms of other people's uploads.
<zul> siretart: its in the process off
<jdong> Hobbsee: is it inherently obvious who manages what in universe, without having been here for a long time?
<zul> siretart: besides a patch for me to look at would have been fine as well
<siretart> ScottK: I don't think that putting every source package in bzr is necessary. I rather think that the 'problematic' ones should be version controlled
<ScottK> siretart: Which then puts them out of reach for those of us that don't use bzr or creates a risk updates get lost.
<Hobbsee> jdong: it is if you read the changelogs
<Hobbsee> jdong: but not beyond that, no.
<siretart> zul: you mean patches like these? http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/x/xen-3.1/xen-3.1_3.1.0-0ubuntu18.patch
<Hobbsee> jdong: if you're modifying a package, then you should at least glance at the changelog anyway, no?  :)
<jdong> Hobbsee: yes, you definitely should... but that's still not as explicit as I would think is optimal
<zul> siretart: no i mean patches like pinging me on irc, saying I have a patch for xen-meta here it is can you look at it before I uploaded, besides xen-meta is going to be re-wrriten or dropped for hardy
<jdong> Hobbsee: there should be some directory on launchpad, or field in control, of a person/people who definitely want notification
<siretart> ScottK: not quite true. uncoordinates uploads can easily be incorporated and merged to the 'mainline' branch
<zul> right im off to lunch
<Hobbsee> jdong: no.  such a list would go very out of date.
<ScottK> siretart: I think it's dangerous to not have a single "canonical" (pun intended) source for a package.
<siretart> zul: in that case we should make it mandatory to contact the person in the maintainer field before touching any package not maintained by ubuntu-core-devel@l.u.c or ubuntu-devel@l.u.c in the Maintainer field of the package
<nxvl> ScottK: i send a new debdiff, can u take a look please
<ScottK> nxvl: Sure
<zul> siretart: i agree
<jdong> in the meantime, can someone sponsor http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu2.dsc into Hardy?
<ScottK> nxvl: Why did you remove the Homepage: field?
<ScottK> nxvl: It also looks like a bunch of extra lines got added at the end of debian/rules.
<ScottK> nxvl: I know you are just repeating what was there before, but I think "Re-add dh_iconcache and change it to dh_icons since dh_iconcache is deprecated" should just be "Add dh_icons to debian/rules"
<ScottK> nxvl: Other than that, looks good.
<jdong> nvm, I'll just use u-u-s....
<AnAnt> Hello, I am making a package, how can I add the feature that it can ask users some questions to configure the package ?
<ScottK> siretart: I don't think we need more rules.  I think we need more community focus on working together and not in isolation.
<geser> AnAnt: debconf, but users should only be asked when there is no sane default
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you get that?
<nxvl> ScottK: yes
<nxvl> ScottK: and fixing
<ScottK> nxvl: OK.  Just checking.  Does it all make sense?
<nxvl> ScottK: but i'm not sure about the Homepage thing
<ScottK> Why not?
<nxvl> cause i don't undesrtand that
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK> It's new.
<nxvl> u mean in debian/control file?
<ScottK> Yes
<nxvl> ah ok
<nxvl> i will take a look
<ScottK> The dpkg in Debian supports it and so we will too for Hardy.
<AnAnt> geser: how do I use debconf ? and can I configure it so that it would be run if user runs dpkg-reconfigure but not when package is being installed ?
<geser> AnAnt: have you tried the debconf-doc package? I don't know debconf enough to tell you if that's possible
<ScottK> norsetto: If you have a mentee that's ready for a harder merge, scapy might be a good one.
<ScottK> norsetto: Particularly if they know a little Python.
<norsetto> scottK: yes, I have a pythonist that could be interested, let me ask him
<norsetto> scottK: rospo_zoppo is also a good contributor, if you want to talk to him about scape (he just joined)
<fernando> ScottK, can you review http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<ScottK> norsetto and Rospo_Zoppo: Sure.
<ScottK> fernando: Yep.
<fernando> ScottK, sorry by delay, I'm very busy here
<ScottK> fernando: No trouble.  It's not like we're near a release or anything.
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: about scape ?
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: scapy
<nxvl> ScottK: fixed
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: and what should I do ? :)
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It needs a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net/scapy
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I've done my first merge today, I'm not very good with that :)
<ScottK> norsetto: He may need more help than I've time to give.
<norsetto> scottk: np
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you edit your previous debdiff and attach it again or modify the package and redo the debdiff?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: what merge did you do today?
<Rospo_Zoppo> if it's not
<Rospo_Zoppo> mmh
<Rospo_Zoppo> vertex
<Rospo_Zoppo> just a second
<norsetto> its in the u-u-s queue?
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: sorry, its in the u-u-s queue?
<geser> fernando: about the courier merge: does courier expect sendmail as /usr/bin/sendmail and not /usr/sbin/sendmail?
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yes
 * norsetto checks
<geser> fernando: and replace apache with apache2 in Depends for courier-webadmin
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: did you use some tools? mom, dad, etc.
<fernando> geser, ok
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I used mom
<geser> fernando: the same for sqwebmail
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: to see the changes
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I don't have much time now
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: no problem, I'll leaee any comment to the bug
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: actually, I have to go in a few minutes
<fernando> geser, done
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: thanks :)
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: so, you won't look at scapy?
<geser> fernando: why does your debdiff contain files like /tmp/xuJHkfUOW2/courier-0.57.0/debian/courier-authpostgresql/usr/share/doc/courier-authpostgresql/NEWS.Debian
<geser> it looks like the clean target wasn't run
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: if it's not an urgent task I can do it
<fernando> geser, checking
<nxvl> ScottK: :D i know it was wrong
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't think it is that urgent, but scottk may think differently
<ScottK> geser: Thanks for checking the courier debdiff.
<ScottK> norsetto and Rospo_Zoppo: It's not urgent.
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto ScottK I must go now, I will take a look at it
<ScottK> nxvl: Also it won't work.  That patch wouldn't apply because the line numbering wouldn't match up.
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: take care
<nxvl> ScottK: generating new one
<Rospo_Zoppo> see you soon
 * ScottK marks scapy belonging to Rospo_Zoppo on DaD
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Be sure to ping me when you have a debdiff.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: ok
<geser> ScottK: I did only a quick check on it
<ScottK> geser: Well that was good though.
<ScottK> fernando: Why don't you let me know when you've worked through geser's comments.
<nxvl> does debdiff has cache?
<ScottK> No
<nxvl> mmm
<ScottK> But you need to rebuild the source package after you make the change if you didn't
<tuxmaniac> folks. I just got my pbuilder setup
<nxvl> i'm doing the changes but when i generate new debdiff it doesn't work, its still showing old one
<tuxmaniac> now I need to build a upstream src and I do not want to install the builddeps in my working machine instead use the chroot environment
<tuxmaniac> how do I get it done?
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for Advocates for Easy Crypt on REVU - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - Can anyone help me?
<nxvl> ScottK: heh, it would be a good idea to build the source first, didn't it? :P
<dholbach> Hobbsee: what about me? I was away for dinner
<ScottK> dholbach: We had another round of 'fun' discussions and I think she was wishing you were around at the time.
<dholbach> what was it all about?
<StevenHarperUK> Are there any MOTU's here?
<ScottK> dholbach: The short version is someone uploading a package that had a dedicated maintainer when they weren't that maintainer.
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: There are several.  I'm not reviewing though.
<ScottK> If you have a quick question, I'd be glad to try to answer it.
<dholbach> ScottK: did they work the problem out together?
<StevenHarperUK> What's the best way to get reviews : and is REVU the right place still?
<ScottK> dholbach: This then evolved into the "if someone has done a lot of work on a package, it'd be nice to touch base with them before uploading" discussion.
<tuxmaniac> if there is a change in the name of the upstream package, how do we handle it during packaging. Do we also change the package name?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: REVU is the right place.  Periodic requests here don't hurt.
<dholbach> ScottK: definitively nice, we've had the problem before that people just did not know - I hope this did not turn into a huge problem right now?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Be patient though as it's early in the cycle and people aren't really focused there yet.
<StevenHarperUK> Its just its been there since Sep 14th.....
<ScottK> dholbach: I think it's worth reading the scrollback and reaching your own conclusion.
<dholbach> ScottK: I'm happy to help working it out, who do I need to talk to?
<StevenHarperUK> Its my own code and packagig
<StevenHarperUK> A lot of work has gone into it and now the hardest part is getting someone to just look at it
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Up until last week we were focused on getting Gutsy out the door.
<StevenHarperUK> Yes I know
<ScottK> You picked about the worst time in the release cycle to start looking
<ScottK> It'll pick up now, probably in a couple of weeks, so I'd council patience.
<StevenHarperUK> I have another Question do packages ever get added to current releases (i.e. Gutsy)?
<Hobbsee> no
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Only through backports
<StevenHarperUK> I thought not
<StevenHarperUK> Right that makes sense
<ScottK> !backports | StevenHarperUK
<ubotu> StevenHarperUK: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<StevenHarperUK> Right ok i'm off home now, thanks for the info, ill keep popping onto this channel and hounding the MOTU's (just like you advised :p) cya
<ScottK> nxvl: The "only in patch2: ..." problem in debian/rules is back.  Other than that, it looks good.
<bluekuja> back, anyway zul: sorry for what happened, I hope it's everything ok now
<bluekuja> ScottK, Hobbsee: sorry for the confusion happened before ;)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem
<ScottK> bluekuja: No trouble.  The main thing is to learn and move on.
<zul> bluekuja: no problem
<bluekuja> zul, thanks, I hope you aren't disappointed for this thing, and I'll ask you next time for xen packages
<tuxmaniac> Hi All, while doing a pdebuild I get this error for build dependency. I am not sure why it is unable to find the package as my apt-cache search shows it. is it that by default the chroot env does not include universe repos?
<tuxmaniac> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1288/
<nxvl> ScottK: yes, but in debian/rules it doesn't say anything about that, i don't kno why its there
<ScottK> nxvl: Odd.  OK.
<bluekuja> ScottK, agreed
<ScottK> tuxmaniac: It does not.
<ScottK> nxvl: Looks good.  I'll test it now.
<ScottK> nxvl: Putting the bug number in the debian/changelog entry is a good practice.  I'm adding it for this time.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<AnAnt> Hello, is the revu ftp site the same ? revu.tauware.de ?
<sistpoty> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> I see some mp3's on the incoming folders, so I was shocked
<ScottK> New PPA Terms of Use have been published, FYI: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse
<ScottK> Much more reasonable IMO.
<AnAnt> sistpoty: revu.tauware.de/incoming ?
<AnAnt> sistpoty: why can't I see my upload there ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: how long ago did you upload it, and what was it called?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: I am uploading it now ubuntume-wallpapers
<sistpoty> AnAnt: it get's moved away every 10 minutes... (as in mv, so that you can do a longer upload because the file descriptors don't get invalidated by mv'ing=
<sistpoty> ScottK: PPA TOS is much cooler now, thanks a lot for tackling this!
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<ScottK> sistpoty: No trouble.
<ScottK> sistpoty: As I say about LP, it's proprietary, so I can't fix it, but I can complain a lot.
<sistpoty> haha
<deadwill> yo!
<ScottK> nxvl: Looks good.  I'll upload it in a minute.  Thank you for your contribution.
<nxvl> ScottK: thnak you for your help :D
<ScottK> nxvl: Uploaded.  Congratulations.  You now "Touched it last".
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: about scapy
<nxvl> ScottK: :D
<ScottK> Yes
<nxvl> ScottK: thank u again
<Rospo_Zoppo> the patch from upstream seems to cover the ubuntu one
<ScottK> No proble.
<ScottK> problem
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It may.  A bug was filed against it upstream.
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It may be that the package can be synced.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: that is what I thought
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: This is why it's a good idea to go file bugs in Debian or upstream.  Eventually you get to do a sync and we don't have to maintain the package separately anymore.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: yes, I understand
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: do you know where has that bug filed ?
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: against debian ?
<ScottK> No, it was filed against scapy
<Rospo_Zoppo> ok
<ScottK> In their bug tracker.
<Rospo_Zoppo> perfect
<Rospo_Zoppo> thanks
<sistpoty> fernando: did you have time to do a merge yet? (as that's what I'm waiting for for your motu application)
<fernando> sistpoty, I'm merging now. (fixing clean issue)
<geser> sistpoty: afaik he's working on a courier merge
<sistpoty> fernando: excellent, thanks!
<sistpoty> geser: cool, that's then non-trivial as well I guess... perfect input to come to a decision *g*
<ScottK> sistpoty: I didn't pick that one randomly.
<sistpoty> ScottK: excellent, thanks!
<nxvl> ScottK: can u make me a favor?
<ScottK> Maybe?
<nxvl> ScottK: take a look and check if it's right ->http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126656/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<nxvl> sorry
<nxvl> wrong link
<nxvl> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=146
<ScottK> nxvl: Looking.  You are in Peru?
<nxvl> ScottK: yep
<nxvl> ScottK: i live here
<ScottK> Ah.  I visited there last year.
<nxvl> ScottK: nice! where have you been? only in lima?
<ScottK> It was a very interesting and enjoyable trip (it would've been more enjoyable had we not been watching over 18 14-16 year olds)
<ScottK> No, we went several places (my spelling is going to be terrible)
<nxvl> ScottK: heh, you come with your childrens?
<nxvl> ScottK: don't wory, here no one can speel all the places, Quechua is very difficult
<ScottK> We were in Lima, Macchu Piccu, tha Amazon basin, and Cusco
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> It was a school sponsored trip that we helped watch over and we (my wife and I ) got to come too.
<nxvl> ScottK: they are very nice places
<ScottK> It was a bit touristy for my taste.  I'd have preferred to interact more with people.
<nxvl> ScottK: ah ok! not a very nice work, but still fun
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> That and the fact that my wife and I were the only ones in the group with experience travelling overseas in large groups, we felt like we were minding the teachers too sometime.
<nxvl> ScottK: next time you came, write me so we can go dinner or something with the peruvian linux users :D we always do that when any FOSS developer come
<ScottK> Cool.  I've no idea when or if that will be, but I will if it comes up.
<ScottK> nxvl: It looks good to me.  It also explains all the empty lines at the end of your diff.
<nxvl> ScottK: yes? why?
<nxvl> ScottK: what have i do wrong?
<ScottK> nxvl: Diff cannot remove a file entirely and so those bits were all that were left of the .po files after filterdiff got done.
<nxvl> s/wrong/ not the better way/
<ScottK> Not wrong, just another step.
<ScottK> So if you filterdiff out an entire file, you'll need to remove that list bit from the diff.
<nxvl> oh, ok, i undesrtand
<nxvl> so, those line are needed to delete by hand
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Which is what I did before I applied it.
<nxvl> ok i will keep that in mind
<nxvl> thank you :D
<ScottK> You should also mention adding the bug number in debian/changelog for a sponsored merge.
 * sistpoty bypassed this for today's main sponsoring request *g*
<nxvl> i was afraid to do it since last time i edit the debdiff it was not the best thing i did
<jpatrick> should Homepage be in the package description or under Standards-Version?
<ScottK> nxvl: I can understand.  In this case it's needed.  It's also OK if you don't change the number of lines in the diff (just edit within a line).
<sistpoty> jpatrick: whatever you prefer... there's no clear decision in debian yet, FWIW
<ScottK> jpatrick: Debian or Ubuntu?
<ScottK> dpkg in Debian at least supports Homepage:  I assume ours will soonis.
<ScottK> h
<sistpoty> (and imo nothing really parses homepage in ubuntu, so it imho doesn't matter for us=
<pkern> This is a clear decision in Debian.
<pkern> *There
<pkern> *cough*
<jpatrick> it's a merge I'm doing
<ScottK> jpatrick: Leave Homepage: in.  It does no harm and we'll support it eventually.
<sistpoty> pkern: there is already? (didn't make it to the games team yet *
<ScottK> That's my advice.
<sistpoty> +g*
<jpatrick> ScottK: ok
<nxvl> ScottK: so, instead of deleting a line i can change it with an empty line and that would work
<ScottK> sistpoty: Debian Python and Debian Perl have done it across the board in their repos.
<pkern> http://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews
<ScottK> nxvl: If needed, but if you're doing that you're better of to redo it.
<ScottK> nxvl: I was thinking something like you notice you got the bug number in debian/changelog wrong, it's OK to change the number to the right one.
<nxvl> ScottK: i understand that, and i know that the way, but i ask only to understand how it works
<ScottK> OK
<nxvl> thanks a lot
<nxvl> ScottK: if you have more marges let me know, i will be glad to do them :D
<ScottK> nxvl: Thanks.
<pkern> Merge me into Ubuntu.
<sistpoty> pkern: thanks!
<sistpoty> (for the wiki link)
<nxvl> pkern: heh
<blueyed> Is there no page about PPAs on wiki.ubuntu.com yet?
<nxvl> blueyed: there is one in help.launchad
<nxvl> blueyed: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart/
<ScottK> blueyed: It's a launchpad thing, not an Ubuntu thing
<pkern> ScottK: Ubuntu is Launchpad.  Launchpad is Ubuntu.  We are Borg, you will be assimilated.
<blueyed> Ah, I see. But in the end there are a lot of Launchpad things documented on the wiki, aren't they?
<pkern> Resistance is futile. FWIW.
<ScottK> pkern: Sort of.
<ScottK> Doesn't mean the attempt isn't worthwhile.
<pkern> ScottK: As we see in Star Trek, resistance was never futile, yes.
<nxvl> pkern: WTF!? ubuntu is not lp, lp is not ubuntu
<pkern> And I don't think it's fruitless, but we oh so dependant. :-P
<pkern> *we're
<sistpoty> still a tiny village of non-LP tools exists in the ubuntu landscape, which the Romans couldn't capture up to day *g*
<ScottK> nxvl: He's being sarcastic.
<pkern> nxvl: Blue or red pill?
<ScottK> Heh
<nxvl> ScottK: yes i know
<ScottK> K
<nxvl> pkern: wich one let me live in peace?
<ScottK> When two people are conversing neither in their native tongue I don't make assumptions.
<pkern> nxvl: The blue one, it /ignores me. :-P
<sistpoty> *g*
<pkern> ScottK: *cough*
<ScottK> ?
<nxvl> heh
<blueyed> Is it a good idea to upload OOo to my PPA, with an upstream patch for testing? (bug 131526) It seems to take hours^Wdays to build.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs on errors in current gtk theme" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
<pkern> Now I *could* converse in German, but you don't want that. :-P
 * pkern is afraid of the assumptions.
<pkern> blueyed: Just do it and deal with the fallout gracefully. :-P
<pkern> And by the way: it only took about 4h on my lappy on Gentoo.
<sistpoty> you're in the lucky position to have a fast lappy then :P
<pkern> sistpoty: Aye.
<pkern> sistpoty: Sucky ATI, though.
<nxvl> what i'm have not clear is the MoM and DaD thing
<sistpoty> hehe
<pkern> And stupid "mail-in" warranty of Lenovo, so I'll need to buy something to ship it in.
<ScottK> blueyed: I'd suggest upload it 3 times with different revision numbers to make sure it gets there ;-)
<nxvl> s/i'm/i/
<pkern> ScottK: If you do it shortly afterwards it's no problem I'd guess.
<blueyed> ScottK: yay for blocking the PPA build system :p
<pkern> ScottK: But launchpad buildds are somewhat slow to get the fact that the package is already superseeded.
<ScottK> nxvl: Both do the same thing.  MoM is the official, but proprietary merges tool.  DaD is a community developed FOSS tool for the same thing.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: the patch that seems to fix that is http://trac.secdev.org/scapy/changeset/a5653a4a7fbc#file0
<ScottK> nxvl: They have their differences.  I status my merges on DaD since it takes comments.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: and i found that in the new upstream patch
<Rospo_Zoppo> it seems to be a sync
<ScottK> nxvl: I will generally use DaD's merge script, but then try MoM's if I don't get a clean result.
<ScottK> nxvl: You can use whicher you prefer.
<fernando> ScottK, geser, sistpoty: http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff the sendmail is moved by rules to sbin
<fernando> fixed clean and apache2 instead apache
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: That's the one.  Did you test build it?
<Rospo_Zoppo> no, I'm gonna do it
<Rospo_Zoppo> right now :)
<ScottK> fernando: It'll be a bit before I can look in detail.
<sistpoty> oh, about MoM and DaD, maybe we should prod on the lists about comments again? anyone who'd like to volunteer?
<Lutin> sistpoty: not sure what you mean
<blueyed> openoffice.org is patchless? (according to what-patch)
<sistpoty> Lutin: the last I remember is the discussion about unifying MoM and DaD on a motu meeting very long ago. where there efforts to do so? if not, why did it fail? what tool is MOTUs preferred one?
<nxvl> ScottK: i was thinking on something like that, thnx
<sistpoty> last thing even
<Lutin> sistpoty: well keybuk sort of said there would be no problem to make MoM use DaD UI, if everyone was ok, but no work have been done on this. Adri2000 is starting working on it afaict
<Adri2000> sistpoty: last time we talked about that, the final word (during a meeting) was that we could try to ask sabdfl about making MoM free, and otherwise use DaD UI on MoM's backend. for the first part we got no answer from sabdfl since June (I again tried today to ask him), and for the second part we haven't really worked on it yet, but  we are going to start doing so with arthur soon
<sistpoty> Lutin: ah... that was pretty much what I remember as well, so I just wanted to send a ping actually ;)
<Lutin> sistpoty: heh :)
<sistpoty> well, I can try to bring 1) forward to sabdfl at UDS, not sure if I'll succeed though ;)
<pkern> Hah, no answer is in this context better than a no. :-P
<pkern> Otherwise I would raise a wtf.
<nxvl> ok, now i need to go to the university, see you later
<sistpoty> cya nxvl
<Lutin> Fujitsu: heh, jdong saved you, he did azureus :)
<Adri2000> sistpoty: yeah, if you could try that... because seems that my question doesn't get through the irc query correctly :p
<geser> fernando: where does the changes to e.g. courier-0.57.0/courier/ldapaliasdrc.h or courier-0.57.0/courier/module.local/preline.c come from? I can't find a entry for them in the changelog
<sistpoty> Adri2000: sure
<jdong> Lutin: lol now I'm forever blamed for everything azureus
<jdong> Lutin: I'm in their IRC channel and listening to all their devs yell at me right now
<jdong> for the past 1.5 years
<Lutin> jdong: lol
<zul> jdong: been there done that ;)
<bluekuja> let's thank jdong for his work...azureus simply rocks now
<bluekuja> never seen it so fast
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: probably I will have the build log tomorrow
<Rospo_Zoppo> because I'm going out in some minutes
<fernando> geser, very strange. the debian orig is diferent of upstream source
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: No trouble.  It's not a rush.
<blueyed> Does somebody know where I have to drop patches for openoffice.org? There's ooo-build/patches, but I'm not  sure how to do it.
<ScottK> calc can probably tell you ^^^
<doko> jdong: did you drop the gnome patches for azureus?
<jdong> doko: I went with Debian dropping all our existing patches...
<doko> jdong: please reapply
<jdong> doko: can you briefly describe what the patch does?
<fernando> geser, sorry, my mistake
<doko> jdong: sure, look at the (old) changelog
<jdong> doko: is that "07_azureus-themed.dpatch"?
<jdong> (grepping gnome in changelog shows nothing)
<jdong> or native-tabs?
<pwnguin> actually, ive heard a couple people blame the gnome patches for ubuntu's package crashing
<jdong> pwnguin: I recall similar things, which is why I'm asking before applying...
<pwnguin> at the very least, i'd like to have a package to test without them to compare to
<jdong> pwnguin: I'd like to know exactly what the patch does and what benefits it has...
<pwnguin> just read it ;)
<jdong> pwnguin: I can't even figure out witch patch it is
<pwnguin> true
<doko> jdong: 02, 07, 26
<pwnguin> damn
<pwnguin> 26 patches
<doko> jdong: why did you reenable the the update manager?
<doko> jdong: why removing support for gcj?
<jdong> doko: compiling azureus with gcj causes packages that segfault for every other JVM
<pwnguin> doko: because azureus crashes every week, and gcj sucks ass at hashing?
<doko> pwnguin: is that the reason for dropping these patches?
<jdong> doko: update manager is selectively disabled for the core, SWT by Debian; users may install plugins in ~/.azureus that beneft from the updater
<doko> jdong: why did you drop the standard plugins?
<jdong> doko: because the Debian packager didn't include them?
<man-di> jdong: the debian packager is a jerk with no glue
<imbrandon> umm dosent sound much like a merge
<man-di> clue
<man-di> whatever
<doko> jdong: so dropping extra patches from ubuntu is standard motu style? did dholbach tell you that?
<pochu> If a user has a crash in an app with this error: "item_state_set_all_read (node=0x85d6960) at item_state.c:190   190item_state.c: No such file or directory." what does that mean? How can that file not exist, if the function is in it?
<pwnguin> heh
<jdong> doko: no, nobody told me that
<pwnguin> doko: the current az package is so bad that i have to revert to upstream. you sound offended about the change in packaging
<jdong> imbrandon: it's not really a merge to begin with... our patches caused Azureus to be unstable and nobody understanded how to fix it, while Debian has perfectly functional packaging that worked
<imbrandon> jdong, yes but every ubuntu change that is dropped needs a reason iirc, thats the point of listing each one in the changelog when its done
<ScottK> imbrandon and doko: Generally true, but in this case the package was so broken and the packaging sufficiently evil that no one was willing to touch it through the entire Gutsy cycle.
<pwnguin> damn, scott took my point =(
<jdong> imbrandon: I dropped them because they were not necessary to properly functioning azureus
<doko> jdong, pwnguin, ScottK: please repackage using http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/devel/azureus/
<pwnguin> 26+ patches is a lot to review
<ScottK> jdong appears to have a much cleaner solution which if not perfect, has the significant benifit of actually working.
<doko> ScottK: there's no reason for dropping patches
<pwnguin> doko: only if you grab their gcj patches into ubuntu main
<xhaker> anybody here knows how to get .svn dirs into EXTRA_DIST
<ScottK> doko: It's not dropping it's starting over from Debian.
<jdong> doko: that looks exactly like the previous packaging, and does not work in Ubuntu at all
<jdong> doko: GCJ throws exception on logo screen or adding torrents, Sun/icedtea segfault immediately
<ScottK> doko: Why would we base ourselves on Fedora and not Debian?
<pkern> Debian r b t3h 3v1l.
<pwnguin> ScottK: because Fedora loves gcj and makes it work on gcj.
<pkern> They want to be mentioned on ubuntu.com!
<doko> ScottK: why dropping patches at all?
<pwnguin> ...
<ScottK> At the start of a development cycle to get a working package it seems not unreasonable to me.
<jdong> likewise
<pochu> pkern: and they already are ;)
<pkern> pochu: I know.
<doko> ScottK: and later "forget" about it. sorry, I think thats the wrong attitude
<ScottK> I guess we could just leave it broken for another cycle.  Would that be better?
<imbrandon> ScottK, i dont agree, changing the package to be in line with debian sure, but then re-adapt the existing patches
<imbrandon> unless there is a solid reason for each drop
<Lutin> xhaker: why would you want .svn in your make dist target ?
<ScottK> I guess I see a lot of picking on someone who was willing to dig in and do the work.  Ideal or not, a working package beats a non-working package.
<doko> jdong: it did work for me with gcj, now it doesn't work anymore, as you say icedtea segfaults. now you *require* non-free software for a working version.
<jdong> doko: icedtea is not non-free software
<pwnguin> whats the build dep?
<jdong> at least it's in Universe
<jdong> pwnguin: icedtea-java7-jdk
<jdong> universe
<pwnguin> fair enough
<doko> jdong: "Sun/icedtea segfault immediately"
<xhaker> Lutin, i want the svn dirs to be ignored
<jdong> doko: with 2.5.0.0+patches; 2.5.0.4 the version I uploaded works PERFECTLY with icedtea and sun java
<pwnguin> bug #105816
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105816 in azureus "Azureus crashes after start" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105816
<doko> jdong: but apparently you did upload *without* patches and plugins
<Lutin> xhaker: they will be unless told otherwise
<jdong> doko: upstream also firmly maintains that GCJ has broken/incomplete nio which will not allow proper network transfer with GCJ
<pwnguin> doko: heres the serious question: how did ubuntu come to carry 28 patches without upstream taking them?
<superm1> are we actually allowed to upload things to hardy at this point even though the toolchain isn't ready?
<bluekuja> superm1, you can start uploading, everyone already started merging
<doko> pwnguin: serious answer: did you *ever* saw a dev ML or get feedback from upstream?
<superm1> bluekuja, cool :)
<bluekuja> superm1, :)
<bluekuja> superm1, good development circle :)
<pwnguin> doko: well, i'll pull the same trick that was pulled on me then. "there are ways of solving an unreponsive upstream"
<doko> pwnguin: could you point me to a bug and patch tracker?
<jdong> the plugins are just an IRC client and torent tracker
<jdong> the tracker, I do admit, would be nice
<pwnguin> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=575154&group_id=84122&func=browse
<pwnguin> that?
<pwnguin> its a standard sourceforge project
<jdong> but our source tarball is the same one that upstream provides
<doko> jdong: including the windows stuff?
<jdong> doko: it's zapped by debian/rules
<jdong> rather, build is skipped
<superm1> bluekuja, this being the case, would you mind a quick revu on a few things i've got on launchpad?  They're simple artwork packages that should be pretty straightforward
<bluekuja> superm1, do you have a link?
<superm1> sure one sec
<bluekuja> ty
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=382 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=390 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=391
<superm1> (they're all based on common packaging)
<bluekuja> superm1, why there is no .diff? native?
<superm1> the first one is native
<superm1> the other two are not
<bluekuja> ok, fine
<bluekuja> superm1, I gonna check first one, then I gonna move to watch a film, I'm pretty tired :)
<superm1> bluekuja, okay sounds good, ty :)
<bluekuja> superm1, it builds/installs fine, destination dirs are ok
<bluekuja> is copyright stuff ok as well?
<superm1> yeah we chose a CC license that allowed redistribution
<bluekuja> superm1, lintian/linda are both happy
<bluekuja> superm1, let me test the package to see if it works
<bluekuja> superm1, you should change release to hardy
<superm1> bluekuja, i'll warn you it's gonna pull in a lot of stuff if you dont have myth already setup :)
<bluekuja> ;)
<superm1> bluekuja, yeah this was uploaded some time ago
<superm1> i'll switch it to hardy when i put it to the archive
<bluekuja> k, and anyway yes it's pulling some packages
<bluekuja> atm
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluekuja> superm1, how can I check it?
<superm1> bluekuja, well you'd have to setup quite a bit of items to see the theme in action to be honest....
<superm1> bluekuja, we are distributing that deb though in the final mythbuntu 7.10 disks, so i can say for sure its working.
<superm1> bluekuja, it was just past freeze when it was done so we couldnt have it in the archive
<bluekuja> superm1, ok, important thing is to have it tested, but if you said you and some users tested it is ok
<superm1> some 5804 users have tested it :)
<norsetto> scottk: I can even leave the toilet seat up, but if I'm late for dinner she REALLY gets upset
<bluekuja> superm1, lol
<ScottK> Understand.
<bluekuja> superm1, acking that package
<superm1> bluekuja, okay thanks, i'll s/gutsy/hardy/ and upload
<superm1> bluekuja, can you archive the revu on it?
<fernando> geser, http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff fixed
<bluekuja> superm1, yep
<geser> fernando: looks much better now
<bluekuja> superm1, acked and archived
<superm1> bluekuja, thanks again.  enjoy your film :)
<blueyed> Riddell: I would appreciate it, if you would leave more trace/links in bug reports.. it's often difficult to see which version has fixed something, for example with bug 98729 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 98729 in qt-x11-free "ugly qt applications: qtrc missing in libqt3-mt" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98729
<fernando> geser, yeah
<bluekuja> superm1, thanks :)
<geser> fernando: debian/control: it's XSBC-Original-Maintainer and not only Original-Maintainer
<fernando> geser, http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff fixed
<Riddell> blueyed: that looks like a duplicate of 145709
<Riddell> bug 145709
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145709 in qt-x11-free "7.10: Qt3 /etc/qt3/qtrc owner root result in ugly appearance" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145709
<fernando> geser, ScottK, College time. Sorry about my mistakes on courier.
<zul> right im heading home
<ajmitch> bye zul
 * pkern whistles
<blueyed> Riddell: but it's quite old already. Thanks for updating. In general, please add more links, e.g. in changelogs. Sometimes I see your changelogs and then remember some bug - which is not referenced.
 * ScottK bangs head against wall over dpkg conffile handling.
 * norsetto pats scottk on the shoulders and hand him a beer
 * ScottK considers Scotch a generally superior solution, but will make do if needed.
<sistpoty> hah, so you're up to the hard stuff *g*
<ScottK> This is not a recent development.
 * norsetto enjoys his tumblefull of loch dhu
<ajmitch> don't tempt me please
 * norsetto is gratefull that scottk is around to remember him that life is full of good things ;-)
<calc> blueyed: wrt OOo in ooo-build/patches/src680 but usually takes some work since it applies so many you have to make sure the patch actually applies
<calc> blueyed: and you have to add the patch to the apply file in the right spot
<zerwas_> Will Pidgin 2.2.2 get into Ubuntu 7.10?
<norsetto> scottK: do you know anyone that can help on a qt4 problem?
<ScottK> zerwas_: No.  7.10 is done and released.
<ScottK> norsetto: Maybe nixternal
<norsetto> no animals were harmed in the making of this distribution (beside nixternal but that was an accident)
 * sistpoty always thought nixternal was a plant actually *g*
<blueyed> calc: what's "src680" (the meaning)? Wow. There ae 7280 patches (in this dir)!
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to advocate my package "Easy Crypt": http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - I am the developer and Packager, can anyone help me?
<calc> blueyed: code branch version name i think
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: you should leave out the debian version "-0" maybe?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: do you have the original mail to the MC list for that latest thread? it's not showing for me
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: have you taken a look at bzr and bzr-builddeb?
<StevenHarperUK_> No I'm very new to Packaging and am very glad to get this far, I'm mainly a coder (it what I do for a living)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no... same here, but it's on the list and I recieved it at work (and deleted it since I only reply to the most interesting non-work related mails at work *g*)
<ajmitch> it's on the list?
 * ajmitch wonders why he doesn't have it
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: the package description sounds very insteresting. I should try the program. (no truecrypt experiments done yet)
<StevenHarperUK_> Please do; it's very handy
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: will do so. Have you seen http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easycrypt-0710241350/lintian ?
<StevenHarperUK_> I am currently expanding to allow users to select other Encyption Algorithms and also the hidden crypts, there's also more polish to put on it :p
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess you're *not* using kmail, otherwise I'd have blamed the MUA ;)
<StevenHarperUK_> No I haven't seen that; is that a standard scan of my ackage?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: no, mutt :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: then you're doomed... I know one of the mutt contributors from university (though his stuff is much more clean than kmail in general *g*)
<StevenHarperUK_> What Target Distribution should I use?
<ajmitch> haha
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: yes, linked on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - you should see this also when building a package, e.g. with pbuilder or debuild/dpkg-buildpackage.
<nixternal> imbrandon: your little kernel package destroyed my sound!
<blueyed> E.g. you may want to use "hardy" in the changelog/release name (instead of feisty) - use "dch" for editing the changelog.
<StevenHarperUK_> Right I see, I have to lose the Dash then, that a definite and the Target Distribution and Section..., then just kill them .svn files
<StevenHarperUK_> blueyed, do ALL the warnings and errors have to be gone before advocation?
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: I don't know. This is my first REVU review.. :)
<StevenHarperUK_> ah right, any other motu's about to answer that Q?
<Knuckles> hello all.
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: e.g. "debuild -S" warns about the debian version but missing orig.tar.gz
<StevenHarperUK_> What does that mean?
<blueyed> When you run "debuild -S", it warns about it. You should not use "-0", if it's a native package (where you are upstream, too).
<blueyed> In your case I'd take a look at bzr-builddeb. It has a mode for "I'm upstream and package maintainer".
<ScottK> blueyed: I'd suggest you not add complexity to a newcomer's envirnoment.
<ScottK> I'd suggest sticking with standard tools.
<blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: ScottK is probably right. I don't want to disturb you and it's good to learn the basics for sure..
<Knuckles> I want to participate to the developement of Ubuntu
<Knuckles> and i have some questions
<Knuckles> can someone reply to a few questions?
<ScottK> norsetto: ^^^
<ScottK> Ask away and we'll see.
<sistpoty> sure, just go ahead
<norsetto> !ask | knuckles
<ubotu> knuckles: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Knuckles> ;) ok so here we go
<Knuckles> I just want to know wich kind of languages are necessary to know
 * norsetto wears his antiquestion proof vest
<norsetto> knuckles: english helps ....
<lifeless> Knuckles: those that you choose to use/those of the projects you work on.
<Knuckles> ok
<sistpoty> Knuckles: a little bit of makefile (for debian/rules)... apart from that english to communicate with upstream or debian ;)
<Knuckles> ok
<norsetto> sistpoty: lol
<sistpoty> Knuckles: knowing the language a package is written in (e.g. c or c++) certainly helps too
<Knuckles> So I know how to "makefile"
<Knuckles> and C/C++ ok
<Knuckles> good
<Knuckles> know python too, I think a lot of Ubuntu packages are built with it
<Knuckles> (sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'm french)
<norsetto> personne est parfaite
<Knuckles> :)
<Knuckles> Ok so
<sistpoty> Knuckles: python helps, but imo the minority of the packages involve a knowledge of it (most are c, some are c++ and the rest divides into perl/python and a few more uncommon languages like haskell)
<sistpoty> (i.e. also the *maintainer scripts*)
<Knuckles> ok
<Knuckles> I don't know Perl but I can learn it
<Knuckles> no problem
<StevenHarperUK_> Yes mines done with Python, I can't say the packaging has been easy or straight forward
<Knuckles> and do I have to pass an exam?
<sistpoty> Knuckles: I don't know perl either ;)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Does your package have a distutils setup.py?
<StevenHarperUK_> No I tried going down that route and wasted hours of my life
<StevenHarperUK_> the documentation is comical
<sistpoty> Knuckles: sure, you'll have to come before motu-council and apply to become a maintainer... some may see this as interesting conversation, some as an exam. I'll see it as asking whatever I'm up to (because I'm currently in the council'
<Knuckles> Ok
<Knuckles> The fact is that I use Ubuntu each days
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Agreed (about documentation), but if you could get that right, packaging is dead simple.
<Knuckles> for personal works and school works
<StevenHarperUK_> I guess you need someone who just knows
<Knuckles> and I want to perform my knowledge by working for ubuntu
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: The general approach I use is to find a package similar to mine and copy.
<sistpoty> Knuckles: sorry, wanted to add a wink smiley, it's not a real exam and you can just check the list archives ;)
<Knuckles> ok
<StevenHarperUK_> this is what I do - sudo dpkg-buildpackage -I.svn -tc -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
<norsetto> knuckles: do you have any knowledge of packaging?
<StevenHarperUK_> then - debuild -S -sa -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
<Knuckles> I study in Computer Sciences (to become ingeener)
<Knuckles> so
<Knuckles> I learned how to build a makefile
<StevenHarperUK_> I really don't want to spend ages on Packaging, I'm a coder really
<sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: usually I don't build anything as root (as it's not required)...
<Knuckles> but not especially packaging for ubuntu
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Why not debuild -S -sa -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E -I.svn -tc?  I think that will work in one step.
<StevenHarperUK_> ta
<norsetto> Knuckles: ok, I can suggest you two links
<Knuckles> ok
<sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: I do a dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot -S -sa -us -uc (-S: build a source package, -sa: include the full source, -us -uc don't sign anything, don't know which is for what right now though)
<norsetto> knuckles: one is a general link for development, it tells you what is development for us: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<StevenHarperUK_> Ta
<sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: if that succeeds, and I have what I want, I run debsign -k<mykeyid> <changesfile> manually
<norsetto> Knuckles: I think its a very good page, and you should find it useful
<StevenHarperUK_> the  -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E signs it
<pkern> sistpoty: -us unsigned source; -uc unsigned changes
<StevenHarperUK_> for me anyway :P
<sistpoty> pkern: thanks, may I man pkern in the future? *g*
<norsetto> Knuckles: I also suggest you have a look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<pkern> sistpoty: Probably not.
<rexbron> would I be able to get the revu keychain resynced?
<sistpoty> d'oh ;)
<pkern> May I try to resync it?
<Knuckles> I read the second one hour ago
<sistpoty> sure (to both of you=
<martoss> hi there,
<sistpoty> -=+)
<sistpoty> hi martoss
<norsetto> Knuckles: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation you will find quite a lot of docs to read to learn about packaging
<sistpoty> (just in case anyone wonders, I've asked everyone from #classroom interested in packaging to join here)
<Knuckles> As it's written, I think I will start by working as Prospective Developers
<pkern> Hm.
<pkern> sistpoty: You are root on sparky, right?
<sistpoty> pkern: yes
<martoss> how can i "unpack" a package. i have modified an existing package which i got via apt-get source, now i deleted the folder and have "only" the .orig.tar.gz .dsc and so on.
<pkern> sistpoty: Could you please look why I can't login?
<norsetto> Knuckles: yes, I would suggest you start by reading some docs first, then come back and try to work on some packaging bugs
<mathiaz> martoss: dpkg-source -x foo*.dsc
<sistpoty> pkern: sure, give me a sec please
<Knuckles> Ok
<norsetto> Knuckles: look for the "packaging"tag, we are always here avaiable to help with any question you may have
<pkern> sistpoty: The authorized_keys should be the same as https://launchpad.net/~pkern/+sshkeys
<pkern> sistpoty: If only asterix is in there it would explain it, but that really shouldn't be the case \:
<StevenHarperUK_> In my control file - Section: contrib/utils - is that for the Package or Source part or BOTH?
<Knuckles> Ok, I will read all this doc'
<Knuckles> and then come back
<Knuckles> to ask for some work :D
<martoss> mathiaz, ahh, great!
<norsetto> Knuckles: you can also look for mentored bugs, it means somebody is offering his help to you to fix it
<martoss> is there a trick to build the package with -j 2 on muliprocessor machines?
<martoss> without breaking everything...
<martoss> ...for others.
<Knuckles> norsetto, that's great, it can be useful for my first packaging bugs
<sistpoty> pkern: it seems to be the same (unless klipper plays some evil things with me)
<norsetto> Knuckles: and if you subscribe to the motu-mentors mailing list, we sometime advertise mentored bugs there too
<Knuckles> ok
<lamego> martoss, alias d2build='debuild -uc -us -eMAKEFLAGS=-j2'
<Knuckles> so to sum up al of that
<Knuckles> I read the doc
<sistpoty> pkern: pm?
<Knuckles> I come back here to ask some work
<pkern> sistpoty: Why should I deny that :-P
<Knuckles> If I have some problems, I look for mentored bugs
<norsetto> Knuckles: right now we are just starting for hardy, it means lot of syncs/merges (you  will see in the docs what they are)
<norsetto> Knuckles: you can start with those, its good to get to know your tools and also about some of the procedures
<martoss> ok, works.
<Knuckles> Ok great
<norsetto> Knuckles: but come back here once you read a bit, and we will talk more about the details
<Knuckles> Ok no problem
<Knuckles> I'm going to read docs
<Knuckles> Thank you for your help
<Knuckles> When are you on this channel?
<Knuckles> (if i need to talk to you)
<norsetto> Knuckles: just pop here and ask, we are all here to help as well, if not me somebody else will
<Knuckles> ok perfect
<Knuckles> See you next time!
<norsetto> Knuckles: a+
<Knuckles> A+
<ajmitch> norsetto is *always* here
<norsetto> ajmitch: don't remember me .....
<ajmitch> how could I ever forget you?
<norsetto> ajmitch: if you get sentimental I punch you on the nose
<ajmitch> haha
<norsetto> ajmitch: and then we go together to the pub ;-)
<ajmitch> yay
<norsetto> which reminds me I have a glass somewhere around here ...
<norsetto> cheers :-)
 * ajmitch is at work, sadly
<ajmitch> and we don't usually drink at work in the morning :)
 * norsetto noted the use of the word usually
<sistpoty> norsetto: cheers (/me fetches another glass then *g*)
<norsetto> sistpoty: cheers :-)
<pkern> rexbron: Resyncing.
<rexbron> pkern: thanks
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi im getting this Error after submitting to the PPA - any ideas? Rejected:Component "contrib" is not allowed in feisty
<pkern> StevenHarperUK_: s/contrib/universe/
<StevenHarperUK_> My debain source has Section: contrib/utils
<pkern> StevenHarperUK_: That's wrong for Ubuntu.
<StevenHarperUK_> what should it be for both Source and Package pls
<tonyyarusso> StevenHarperUK_: universe
<tonyyarusso> so, universe/utils
<StevenHarperUK_> in source or package or both?
<tonyyarusso> I'm not sure I understand what you mean there
<StevenHarperUK_> There are 2 sections to the control file
<StevenHarperUK_> top part for Source
<StevenHarperUK_> Lower for Package
<StevenHarperUK_> both have a    Section :
<tonyyarusso> whereever you had contrib before, yes
<StevenHarperUK_> have I got that wrong?
<StevenHarperUK_> My lower one has always just been : Section : utils
<StevenHarperUK_> My upper on is now Section: universe/utils
<StevenHarperUK_> does that sound right?
<tonyyarusso> yeah
<rexbron> Would anyone be interested in reviewing a package (genpo)? upid 406
<proppy> hi
<pkern> Revu sync done.
<pkern> Does anyone know how to delete all files in a directory belonging to a certain changes file?
<sistpoty> pkern: they (should) start with the same prefix, so zsh could help?
<pkern> Hm, that has a point, of course.
<pkern> sistpoty: Hm, no, that doesn't work.
<pkern> sistpoty: Different binary packages have different prefixes?
<ajmitch> pkern: I did have a script written to do that
<blueyed> calc: for ooo-build: can I drop the patch like it's on http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/49023/openoffice.org.ooo82608.vcl.gtkbadfree.patch ?
<ajmitch> except I didn't add it to bzr, so it got stomped when tiber was taken down
<ajmitch> it ran every 30 min to clean up binary uploads
<blueyed> calc: (and add it in apply to "[ TemporaryHacks ]")?
<pkern> ajmitch: Well probably I could use python-debian et al. for that, but that looks heavyweight.
<ajmitch> pkern: I just used grep :)
<pkern> (Apart of the fact that I just made up the inotify runner in Ruby.)
<pkern> ajmitch: grep '^ ' oder what?
<pkern> ajmitch: That would be somewhat silly. \:
<pkern> Currently I use dput to get all files together, and I guess I could just clean up the unsigned queue with rm *.
<mathiaz> nxvl: I've seen that you've assigned bug 106975 to yourself.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 106975 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mysqldump lacks bash completion script" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106975
<ajmitch> egrep  '^ [0-9A-Fa-f]{32}' foo_i386.changes
<mathiaz> nxvl: do you understand what needs to be done ?
<ajmitch> for some reason :xdigit: didn't do it
 * ajmitch probably needed to double the [
<ajmitch> right,  egrep  '^ [[:xdigit:]]{32}' pymad_0.5.4-1ubuntu3_i386.changes
<ajmitch> that gives the files in the 5th column
<blueyed> debuild -S in openoffice.org complains: "/bin/bash: /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/bin/gcj: No such file or directory" (but finishes)
<pkern>  x.each_line do |line| next unless line.match(/^ [[:xdigit:]]{32}/); puts line.split(' ')[4]; end
<pkern> Oh well.
<pkern> Thanks ajmitch ;)
<pkern> Hm.
<pkern> Luckily the changes are trusted.
<pkern> Otherwise that would be very damaging.
<pwnguin> man, i hate debian MLs
<pwnguin> too much work
<pkern> o_O
<pwnguin> no top posting, references, paying attention to reply-to, etc
<ajmitch> pkern: plus you make sure you only delete stuff in the current directory :)
<pkern> ajmitch: How?
<ajmitch> by stripping any path info before deleting
<pkern> ajmitch: Now is there any easy way to do this?
<pkern> ajmitch: Stripping any dots and slashes at the begin of the string?
<ajmitch> you're doing it in ruby, so I presume it has some way to safely do that
<ajmitch> I did it in shell, so basename came in handy
<ion_> >> File.basename "/foo/../bar"
<ion_> => "bar"
<pkern> ajmitch: So File.basename is the key, thanks (:
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> right, same thing, useful
 * ajmitch grovels
<pkern> Sadly enough on another application I also need to crush path traversal somehow but it's not that easy. |:
<ion_> Howdy, bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ion_
<pkern> Now this is American style.  "How are you doing?" "Fine, and you?" "Fine.".  Don't try that with Germans, though.
<ajmitch> pkern: why not?
<ion_> That works with Finns. Finns suck at smalltalk, but they suck at âtalkâ even more, so theyâll just say ânot muchâ or something like that.
<pkern> ajmitch: We're usually honest on this.  Which is... sort of unusual in this context I suppose.
<Amaranth> pkern: "How are you doing?" "Well, my cat just died and I've been a little constipated lately..."
<ajmitch> so you ask someone how they are, and they'll tell you their life story?
<pwnguin> i wish the debian mailing lists would munge the reply-to
<pkern> ajmitch: I think so, yes.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: the usual response being "glad to hear it"
<sistpoty> pkern: works pretty well for some germans though :P
<pkern> sistpoty: Hah.
<sistpoty> of course the conversation ends then *g*
<ajmitch> sistpoty: so how are you? :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: fine, and how about you? :P
<ajmitch> oh, I could be better. quite hungry, since it's near lunchtime, and I didn't have dinner last night ;)
<sistpoty> oh... (*silence*)
<pkern> So was this a nice or a bad try? :-P
 * norsetto -> bed
<pkern> Hm, I need something to backport to Etch to try my buildd...
<bddebian> Ah, pkern's back in action :-)
<pkern> Nah.
<ajmitch> bddebian: you'd better try & catch up
<pkern> University just began again. |:
<ajmitch> we expect approx 1000 uploads for hardy
<bddebian> ajmitch: I couldn't even begin to try :-)
<ajmitch> yes you could
<pkern> Hah, bddebian bashing in #ubuntu-motu? ;)
<sistpoty> pkern: damn, then I should be in bed now, otherwise I will have to look for a parking lot tomorrow again *g*
<bddebian> I'm trying to get some stuff in through debian
<StevenHarperUK_> In my changes file : what should my target distribution be - its curr : easycrypt (0.2.1.2) feisty; urgency=low , its moaning about the feisty bit
<pkern> sistpoty: Good night.  I promise that I'll go to bed soon too and there won't be something interesting from my side. :-P
<ajmitch> pkern: this isn't bashing at all
<pkern> Yay, even binNMU'ing works.
<StevenHarperUK_> Should it be : universe?
<sistpoty> pkern: thanks, and gn8 as well
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<StevenHarperUK_> nn
<pochu> See you folks.
<ajmitch> StevenHarperUK_: it should be hardy, but lintian will complain, since it is outdated
<ajmitch> if on REVU
<StevenHarperUK_> so its ok as Hardy even for REVU?
<ajmitch> yes
<StevenHarperUK_> lintian is complaining that my source and package are in different sections : should they be the same ?
<pkern> Maybe this should be stripped from lintian on REVU somehow ;)
<imbrandon> mmmm REVU hacking
<ajmitch> pkern: it should only take 2 minutes
<imbrandon> pkern, maybe a special lintian for revu could be good, i wouldent get rid of the warning thought
<imbrandon> though*
<imbrandon> just clarify it
<bddebian> Hmm, is it a REVU sprint?
<pkern> Good night, folks. (:
<ajmitch> night pkern
<bddebian> Gah
<pkern> Night ajmitch :-P
<StevenHarperUK_> lintain told me to put my source section as :  Section: universe/utils , now its complaining that my Package section isnt the same - its (Section: utils ) do I have to make them both : Section: universe/utils
<imbrandon> its always a good idea
<StevenHarperUK_> ta
<pwnguin> ive seen packages omit a section
<bddebian> I didn't think we were to use universe/foo for sections?
<pwnguin> i guess it inherits the source section
<imbrandon> bddebian, for PPA's you MUST so i dont see why not
<pwnguin> bddebian: where exactly would you note universe then?
<bddebian> Why would you?
<StevenHarperUK_> Next it says
<StevenHarperUK_> the most recent entry in the changelog is byte-for-byte identical to the maintainer or one of the uploaders.
<StevenHarperUK_> The maintainer and the name in the changelog are identical : does anyone have a suggestion on whats wrong?
<imbrandon> pwnguin, why ?
<ajmitch> pwnguin: for ubuntu uploads, there's no need
<pwnguin> well, ive only worked with ppas
<pwnguin> i assumed they were nessecary
<imbrandon> pwnguin, nah the archives use overides files
<bddebian> So are going to start seeing the whole world's PPAs sent to the mailing list now?
<imbrandon> tbh i feel that PPA's should just use "all"
<pwnguin> just about everything in my ppa is already in debian
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<StevenHarperUK_> Can anyone suggest what I have to do to fix the byte-for-byte problem?
<ajmitch> StevenHarperUK_: you don't need the gpg comment (Developer) in the changelog & maintainer section
<imbrandon> i onlt have 2 packages in my PPA, and i guess one is obsoleted and the other i need to upload to hardy
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
<StevenHarperUK_> So remove it : ta
<pwnguin> i donno if this is the right place to ask, but what's acceptable when it comes to fullscreen modes?
<pwnguin> i have a program that as written has a -fullscreen option, which isnt default
<bddebian> Make if a runtime option? :-)
<tonyyarusso> Anyone here run into the vga= bug in Gutsy?  (and preferably know a fix?)
<pwnguin> i was thinking of making the launcher run with -fullscreen
<imbrandon> wow first upload for hardy and its even a gnome app, whats the world comming to
<bddebian> Hah
<imbrandon> this makes me mad, all my other household family members that use gmail get the IMAP option but me for my main account
<imbrandon> grrr
<pwnguin> mwuahhaa
 * TheMuso wonders why only particular people get Gmail imap.
<imbrandon> its brand new, they always roll out new featurs to select users
<imbrandon> for the fist bit
<TheMuso> Right.
<pwnguin> TheMuso: i bet it has to do with their massive distributed system
 * TheMuso should check whether he has the option.
<pwnguin> upgrade boxes one at a time
<jdong> imbrandon: aww you ppor thing :)
<pwnguin> or in their cases, a few at a time
<imbrandon> i just wanna use mutt for my gmail :(
 * jdong getmail mirrors his gmail account anyway
<imbrandon> jdong, i would be its almost 3 gb, i dont wanna
<pwnguin> 12:40 < aeruder> gmail + imap + mutt works pretty well
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah, I feel you there
<jdong> pwnguin: hopefully their IMAP server doesn't have 3+-second latencies :)
<jdong> like their POP server at times
<jdong> that would SUCK with mutt
<imbrandon> pwnguin, yea it works great, i set up a new gmail account and it had it ( new accounts get it automatic ) and tried it out
<pwnguin> ive never used mutt
<imbrandon> but i want my main account
<jdong> pwnguin: looks like irssi but with e-mail scrolling by.
<jdong> lol
<pwnguin> except at the command line in a script for undergrads to submit assignments by email
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i like it because i can use it from ssh
<pwnguin> imbrandon: maybe if you didnt have so much mail, you'd get it into imap faster :P
<imbrandon> pwnguin, maybe ;)
<jdong> imbrandon: I like it because it bypasses the gmail UI that fires AJAX timers too much for my laptop battery life
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> lucky
<pwnguin> gmail doesnt even register on powertop for me
<pwnguin> but the threading and quote detection is excellent
<imbrandon> yea i love gmail, but i love imap tooo
<imbrandon> its like a nightmare watching everyone else get it
<jdong> pwnguin: isn't it a nightmare to GPG though?
<imbrandon> jdong, there are extentions for FF that make it easy
<jdong> pwnguin: I'd rather not be granting Firefox read access to ~/.gnupg.... or execute access for... err... anything
<jdong> imbrandon: did gmail finally stop reformattting spacing in e-mails when hitting send?
<pwnguin> jdong: yes, its not pretty
<pwnguin> gpg
<jdong> imbrandon: initial firegpg had that problem where gmail changes spaces on blank lines...
<pwnguin> donno about spacing
<jdong> and that would fail GPG signature, of course
<pwnguin> jdong: tell you what, get thunderbird or something to be as smart as gmail, and i'll consider this whole gpg stuff ;)
<jdong> pwnguin: mutt threading is pretty great
<imbrandon> yea
<jdong> pwnguin: and *giggle* thunderbird. haha.
<imbrandon> its the same as gmail
<jdong> oh oh oh! evolution! :D
<pwnguin> im a walking contradiction
<pwnguin> im typing this on screen+irssi
<imbrandon> hey the "finger of god" says evolution is the best ;)
<StevenHarperUK_> hey : my lintian is down to just this : http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easycrypt-0710250210/lintian
<jdong> pwnguin: haha
<StevenHarperUK_> is that all good now?
<pwnguin> StevenHarperUK_: im told that lintian is the last thing to know about new distributions
<imbrandon> pwnguin, ^A c then `mutt` :)
<pwnguin> i have no idea why this would be
<pwnguin> imbrandon: wrong server, but yes
<imbrandon> getting screen + irrsi to run on bootup is harder than it looks
<imbrandon> ( not login, boot )
<pwnguin> werent you bitching at me for leaving a laptop unattended in my bedroom?
<imbrandon> this is irc we're talking about
<imbrandon> not gpg ;)
<pwnguin> well, getting screen at boot requires passphraseless ssh keys
 * TheMuso doesn't have gmail imap.
<imbrandon> ummm no, it just requires "screen -drA" in rc.local
 * pwnguin has imap!
<imbrandon> ;)
 * pwnguin 
<imbrandon> pwnguin, u sux
<pwnguin> i wonder if irssi puts the space between /me and the rest of a sentence or if the viewing client does it
<StevenHarperUK_> So do you think that's ok to be Reviewed by the MOTU's Now?
<imbrandon> StevenHarperUK_, is that not what you have been doing ?
<StevenHarperUK_> Well its been reviewed : I need it Advocating now :p
<StevenHarperUK_> So any MOTU's fancy Reviewing and Advocating my Package on REVU? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=410
<pwnguin> advocating?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-25
<StevenHarperUK_> Yeh you need MOTU's to Advocate it, then it gets added to Hardy.....
<pwnguin> who do they advocate to?
<StevenHarperUK_> Its part of the MOTU system
<StevenHarperUK_> Check that link I sent
<StevenHarperUK_> On the REVu system
<StevenHarperUK_> They check the package, then if they think it should be on Hardy they mark it, after you get (i think its 2) enough it gets OK'd to be on Hardy...
<StevenHarperUK_> I think, if I read all the Docs right
<pwnguin> advocate sounds like the wrong word there. more like approve
<StevenHarperUK_> Yeh I know, its the wording on the REVU site
<StevenHarperUK_> I didn't choose it
<proppy> anyone has a good sample of a web package ?
<proppy> that handle the stuff with apache the debian way
<proppy> phpmyadmin ?
<martoss> good night everybody.
<martoss> cu
<zul> evening
<crimsun> 'lo zul, how's the baby?
<zul> crimsun: pretty good just had to change a diaper thanks for asking
<crimsun> cool :-)
<bddebian> Damn Debian can be a PITA :-(
<bddebian> Heya zul, crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<zul> hi barry
<soren> crimsun: Hey! Long time no see!
<crimsun> soren: heya, how are things?
<soren> crimsun: Things are great! Are you back or just stopping by?
<crimsun> soren: the latter
<soren> crimsun: Ok. How's the not-so-new-anymore job?
<crimsun> soren: hectic, unfortunately
<crimsun> on the upside, I get to do neat things with Ubuntu.
<soren> Oh, really?
<crimsun> yeah.  It's nice to finally "be on the other end" of sorts. :-)
<soren> I forget.. Who are you working for?
<crimsun> Everyone who contributes to Ubuntu deserves a great round of applause.
<crimsun> soren: the US gov't
<soren> And they use Ubuntu? Wicked.
<crimsun> yep. :-)
<ajmitch> hello soren, crimsun
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
<soren> Hey, ajmitch.
<ajmitch> soren: how goes UDS preparations? :)
<soren> crimsun: You coming down to Boston?
<crimsun> soren: I'll be there Sunday & Monday, but I have to return to work Monday night.
<soren> ajmitch: I've been a bit tied up since release, actually, so I'm lagging a bit.
<zul> ajmitch, that reminds me
<soren> crimsun: Cool, we'll finally meet!
<ajmitch> zul: it does?
<zul> i have to write the XenInHardy thingy
<ajmitch> yes, you do
<soren> ajmitch: I've got 14 hours of travel time, 9 hours of battery, vim, and a copy of the relevant specs. I should be able to get a bit done :)
<ajmitch> soren: only 14 hours? that's quite short
<ajmitch> soren: I look forward to hearing of great thigns from the server team :)
<zul> soren: and those quality in flight movies
<soren> ajmitch: Yeah, I think it's 14 hours. Three flights and about an hour and a half of waiting each time.
<soren> zul: Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
<zul> soren: a bit, i never seen a good movie on a airplane
<soren> zul: I've only traveled far enough to have in flight movies once, and that was with Singapore Airlines, which is awesome.
<ajmitch> zul: air nz isn't too bad
<zul> soren: BA had some pretty good movies when I was a kid
<ajmitch> but that's because we're a long way from anywhere, so movies are required
<zul> true, they dont play peter jackson movies all the time? :)
<ajmitch> mmm, brain dead ;)
<soren> Meet the feebles ftw!
<ajmitch> hehe
<zul> brain dead was freaking hilarious
<Solarion> heh.  Up to about an hour or half hour ago, the gibbon was creeping up in the stats.  Now, suddenly, the gibbon is giving the werewolf quite a drubbing.  :)
<soren> I still have no clue how he got that old guy to pay for the LoTR series. I can only imagine it must have beeen something like: "Hi, I'm Peter Jackson. I want you to pay a zillion dollars so that I can make a film out of the LoTR series." "Mmmmmkay... What have you done before?" "Oh, I've got a tape right here! <puts on a potpourri of Meet the feebles, Braindead, and Bad Taste>" "Oh, make it stop, i'll give you anything you want!"
<soren> ...or thereabouts.
<zul> didnt he do that movie before lotr to prove that he can do a good job to the executive producers?
<ajmitch> he did manage a couple of serious films beforehand
<ajmitch> like the frighteners
<soren> This might be a stupid question, but what does the werewolf represent in the gibbon vs. werewolf thing?
<TheMuso> Is Debian using a tmpfs mounted /var/run yet?
<soren> An "actual" werewolf or some other distro?
<Solarion> soren: Fedora 8
<bmk789> someone should make a screencast on packaging with pbuilder
<soren> Solarion: How so?
<soren> Oh. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-October/msg05258.html
<soren> goodnight everyone!
<crimsun> 'night soren
<soren> 'night, crimsun. See you Sunday!
<ajmitch> night soren
<zul> imbrandon: can you send me the url again
<mdomsch> http://domsch.com/pictures/summer_2007/large/02-00070.html
<mdomsch> view of London from the Canonical office tower
<zul> mdomsch, cool
<imbrandon> zul http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/zul.patch
<imbrandon> that one? ^
<zul> that would be the one
<imbrandon> kk
<blueyed> Can someone decide if bug 149641 is worth a SRU and accept the Gutsy task in this case please. A patch for -proposed is attached already.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
 * persia registers a gutsy task
<persia> blueyed: Does this also affect any previous release?
<blueyed> Thanks, persia. I'm not sure, I'll check this tomorrow, ok?
<persia> (especially Dapper: I don't think we get new installs for Edgy or Feisty these days)
<persia> blueyed: OK.  Dapper is most important.
<blueyed> Please create a Dapper task and assign it to me.
<crimsun> I'm almost in favour of not touching Dapper at this point
<persia> blueyed: I don't want to create a task unless we know it is required.
<persia> crimsun: Why?  I suspect we'll have more than a few things we'll need to patch for upgrades to Hardy anyway...
<persia> blueyed: My apologies: it's main.  I can't approve the nomination :(
<imbrandon> crimsun, i'm kinda of the same mind except to make LTS to LTS upgrades
<santiago-ve> Hello!
<crimsun> persia: there's a bit of noise in that report [I'm not in a position to read it carefully currently], so it's not immediately obvious what the simplest correct fix is .
<blueyed> crimsun: just look at the attached patch.
<blueyed> It's taken from debian.
<crimsun> blueyed: yes, I can easily ACK that.  I'm referring to the noise in the Ubuntu bug report.
<blueyed> crimsun, persia: dapper does not seem to be affected.
<persia> blueyed: Thanks for checking.
<blueyed> (logcheck-1.2.42ubuntu1)
<crimsun> blueyed: ok
 * blueyed => bed
<persia> crimsun: I see your point.  Looking through the bug, there may be other issues, and checking for the existence of the file may not be a complete solution.
<bddebian> Well apparently trying to go through Debian for new upstreams is a pointless excercise
<ScottK> bddebian: Painful, but not necessarily pointless.  Keep picking on pkern and see how far you get.
<ajmitch> ScottK: bddebian's problem was that ari was involved in the discussion
<bddebian> ScottK: Well I would argue pointless.  pkern is 1 man.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Yeah, but that one man can upload stuff.
<bddebian> Not without getting shot ;-)
<ScottK> The trick is low profile.  Get stuff uploaded, but don't get noticed.
<persia> bddebian: Don't let either IRC or any specific individual maintainer bother you.  Just hit the people who are chasing the package directly.
<bddebian> persia: I have e-mailed the maintainers directly
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  My condolences then.
<bddebian> To a degree I understand their point but the "I'd rather let the package rot than accept work from a no-nothing MOTU" attitude is just irritating
<ScottK> I guess I've been lucky then.
<persia> bddebian: Umm..  That's actively anti-useful behaviour on the part of the maintainer.  Is it logged somewhere public?  There are plenty of interested parties who disagree.
<bddebian> persia: I'm not looking to start, trouble I was just trying to get some new upstreams in to debian, hence Ubuntu
<proppy> bddebian: which package are you talking about ?
<proppy> (just curiosity)
<persia> bddebian: I don't mean to encourage trouble, it's just that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers, we ask Debian Developers with issues with Ubuntu member behaviour to please raise them to our governance structures.  Debian's parallel processes are not as transparent, but they do exist.
<bddebian> proppy: I was just working through the upgrade bugs on LP.  pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, etc
<slangasek> bddebian: new upstream version of what?
 * ScottK is starting to suspect that slangasek highlights on debian.
<slangasek> I could do :)
<slangasek> but it was just within reach of two screens'-worth of scrollback in this case :)
 * slangasek reads down. aha, package list. :)
<bddebian> slangasek: as I just said, in this case, pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, and I was starting to consider pgadmin3
<slangasek> hmm, pybliographer; IIRC you're likely to have an uphill push there because of the maintainer's low activity level more than anything
<tonyyarusso> Anybody heard of losing power management settings for "on battery" in 7.10 after today's updates?  As in, the tab is completely gone, and the user can only set a profile for AC?
<slangasek> libdc0/valknut are package names I recognize and associate with "release management pain"... :)
<slangasek> bddebian: anyway, none of those seem to be anything I can be much direct help with :/
<bddebian> slangasek: Thanks but I didn't expect that you could.  I just tire of the Ubuntu doesn't give shit but when I try, I get shit.  It's getting a little old.
<persia> bddebian: It depends on individuals.  If a specific person in Debian doesn't want to cooperate, consider just uploading to Ubuntu.  If the maintainer is willing to cooperate, it's heaps easier to work together.  Don't paint all of Debian with the tar brush.
<bddebian> Aye fair enough and I'm not targetting the maintainers because I haven't gotten anything back from them yet
 * TheMuso is going to try to push changes in our packages to Debian this cycle, rather than just merge the package.
<slangasek> bddebian: no matter what improvements might be made in community relations between Debian and Ubuntu, the reality is that there's always going to be some level of tension over individual package maintainership; that exists /within/ Debian too, it just tends to be cast differently when some of the people are "associated" with Ubuntu
<slangasek> bddebian: so I think it's important to some degree to recognize that this tension will exist and accept it
<slangasek> TheMuso: hurray! :)
 * persia encourages and supports TheMuso
<bddebian> TheMuso: That is what I am attempting to do
<bddebian> slangasek: Understood but what do I do?  not do the work?  Jump Debian for Ubuntu in new upstream versions?  I'm not going to do the work only for it to get ignored, that's pointless.
<persia> bddebian: If there's a long delay, or resistance, I'd recommend uploading -0ubuntu1, and adding a BTS entry describing any specific issues you resolved when merging the new upstream.
<bddebian> persia: Aye, but how long is long? ;-)
<persia> bddebian: I usually give it a week or so for most things.  If it's blocking me in another way, I might not wait for "long", but I'll be sure to file a sync request as soon as I can.
<bddebian> But if the tarballs don't match we can't sync until the next new version :-)
<persia> bddebian: Well, only if it needs repacking: upstream tarballs should all be the same.  That's a special, and unfortunate case.  Perhaps a version number like 2.7.14.really.2.8.0-0ubuntu1?  It depends on what you expect to happen next.
<bddebian> I expect that I should probably stop working on all this crap :-)
<ajmitch> 2.8.0~reallynotdebian-0ubuntu1
<persia> Ah.  Right.  ~  Perhaps 2.8.0~ubuntu-0ubuntu1, just to not point specifically at Debian.
<ajmitch> 2.8.0~arimademedoit-0ubuntu1
 * imbrandon returns
<bddebian> ajmitch: hahaha
<bddebian> 2.8.0~idiotmotuontheloose-0ubuntu1
<persia> bddebian: There you go.  You can safely upload that, and nobody should complain :)
<slangasek> bddebian: you do whatever you think is best, just like everyone else? :)  It's always worth making the effort to let the Debian maintainer know about your updated packages, even if they don't accept them or act on them in a suitable timeframe.
<proppy> Is it ok to work in a hardy chroot now ?
<ajmitch> poor mjg59, trying to explain power management to people :)
<proppy> (for hardy package)
<ajmitch> proppy: sure, it won't be much different from gutsy yet
<slangasek> bddebian: you can't control whether Debian accepts the update, after all, but that's IMHO not a reason not to try, or a reason to keep Ubuntu from having the new version
 * TheMuso chuckles at the goings on in -devel.
<proppy> ajmitch: ok, cause I heard the toolchain was broken
<proppy> earlier
<ajmitch> oh it could be, but that's why you have fun in a chroot
<proppy> ajmitch: by work I mean do packaging stuff
<proppy> lets debootstrap !
<proppy> my fist hardy vserver :)
<TheMuso> proppy: May be safer to make a gutsy chroot, and dist-upgrade.
<TheMuso> But debootstrap could work.
<proppy> TheMuso: thanks for the hint
<proppy> is there any work ongoing on a vserver enable kernel package ?
<proppy> (for ubuntu)
 * ajmitch needs to clear some space on /home before he can start doing much
<TheMuso> Whats vserver?
<jdong> TheMuso: partitioning virtualizer for Linux
<jdong> TheMuso: a la BSD Jails
<jdong> by partitioning, I mean splitting your execution environment into indivudual independent cells
<jdong> not disk partitioning :)
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i think i have another full system here , i might try to setup a buildd that i can localy dput to, anyone ever tried it ?
<imbrandon> wanna-build and ummm what else ?
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> jdong: ah ok.
<proppy> TheMuso: basicly it adds process management to chroot
<proppy> TheMuso: so you can stop and start a chroot and all the process inside it
<TheMuso> .
<jdong> fifo's cannot be read by more than one "receiver", right?
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<TheMuso> jdong: Hense the name.
<jdong> I'm looking for a Rube Goldberg libnotify ping-queue...
<TheMuso> jdong: But I could be wrong.
<jdong> UNIX domain sockets could manage multiple connections right?
<jdong> and use filesystem permissions?
<TheMuso> I think so.
<jdong> ok, I'll have to play with that this weekend then :)
<jdong> the ultimate multiplexing kerberos-authenticated IRC ping multicaster over TCP!
<jdong> rofl
<ajmitch> !jdong
<ubotu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<bddebian> hehe
<TheMuso> lol
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, have a laugh http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=590576
<imbrandon> err hAve A lAugh
<jdong> imbrandon: ROFL
<jdong> that is a hilarious reason why he can't write a :D
<ajmitch> I almost feel sorry for him
 * jdong posted a reply with a workaround for posterity
<RAOF> imbrandon: If you manage to set that up, please document it on the wiki :)
<imbrandon> RAOF, yea i was thinking that too
<imbrandon> i'm throwing togather the parts now to see if i can get an "extra" pc to boot
<RAOF> Seveas was (is?) writing a buildd addition to falcon at one point.  I was kinda waiting for that.
<imbrandon> i only have a 8gb drive to toss at it , but it might work to document the process
<imbrandon> RAOF, yea, it was at my request ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<RAOF> That sounds enough for a buildd, I think.
<RAOF> My schroots only have ~... 5 gb?  I think.
<persia> imbrandon: Dktrkranz was also working on debomatic, which is designed as a simple local/remote pbuilder-driven buildd.  From what I've seen, it's a little easier to use, at a cost of robustness and flexibility
<imbrandon> well if i keep the os small yea
<imbrandon> and only build for one release
<imbrandon> persia, yea this is more to learn than to actualy use
<imbrandon> otherwise i would probably be using falcon 2.x
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> imbrandon: In that case, wanna-build is probably the way to go :)
<ajmitch> hello mr StevenK
 * StevenK waves
<ajmitch> so what country are you in now?
<StevenK> Still .au
<imbrandon> StevenK, you makin uds ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I fly out tomorrow
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> the countless hours of being trapped in the seat
<StevenK> My phone line at home has been killed, so ENODSL
<imbrandon> as it looks right now i probably wont make it ( yet again ) , i started gathering $$ too late
<ajmitch> painful
<imbrandon> ouch
<ajmitch> imbrandon: find a floor to crash on :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, thats still a possibilty
<StevenK> I wanted them to fix it by close of business today, but they keep telling me tomorrow. :-(
<ajmitch> doesn't look likely that I'll be there, somehow
<imbrandon> StevenK, so how are you online ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Cup-and-string? :-P
<imbrandon> hehe
<RAOF> Ah, _Telstra_
<imbrandon> packet-over-pigon
<StevenK> Yes.
<StevenK> I will Get Them
<persia> StevenK: You might try carrier pigeos.  Latency is a bit higher, but they're higher-bandwidth than cup & string.
<ajmitch> persia: but that's what telstra use
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> (I'm at uni, using a web based IRC client)
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  That explains everything.
<imbrandon> ouch, want a shell on my server for irssi ?
<imbrandon> StevenK, ^
<StevenK> You know, the only way out of this damned network is by ssh'ing to a .debian.org machine on port 443
<imbrandon> hahahah painfull
<imbrandon> i could probably put sshd on 443 also for a bit
<imbrandon> it does nothing but run the db for ubuntuwire.com atm
<StevenK> Personally, I'd prefer my connection at home to work. :-)
<imbrandon> ( gentoo box ) /me ducks
<StevenK> I miss my e-mail.
<imbrandon> okie, well offer stands if you need it, lemme know
<StevenK> Sure, thanks.
<lifeless> StevenK: don't you have a job now ?
<StevenK> lifeless: Cut due to a fault, not non-payment
<lifeless> :>
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ouch, that is painful.
<proppy>            Launchpad is offline for scheduled maintenance.           We should be back soon.
<proppy> :((((
<persia> That explains it.  Thanks for the update.
<StevenK> Typical. I claw my way back onto the Internet, and Launchpad is offline.
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> I was only using it 10 minutes ago.
<proppy> I was posting a comment
<proppy> it's very annoying
<proppy> I guess I will post it using that old technology called mail instead :)
<imbrandon> ugh time to dig up some diffrent hardware. that was only a p100
<ajmitch> now they were considered fast not so long ago
<imbrandon> yea but that might be a bit painfull for a buildd
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<imbrandon> if i take those db's off that vps and put them directly on my webserver i can reinstall with ubuntu 7.04 and dist-upgrade from there in minutes
<imbrandon> i think i might do that
<imbrandon> the vps will work well enough
<imbrandon> and ubuntu 7.04 is a premade image so reinstall will only take 5 minutes
<imbrandon> for the provider
<imbrandon> and considering the site only gets 4k hits a day between all the domains i doubt the seperate db server is doing me any good
 * imbrandon googles wanna-build a bit
<pwnguin> imbrandon: what about trying out that Sugar/olpc stuff on older hardware ;0
<imbrandon> i could, after the buildd hehe
<imbrandon> is it avail for general use ?
<Amaranth> so, uh, i can push stuff to hardy now? :)
<imbrandon> yea
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Yes.
<Amaranth> woohoo
<Amaranth> awn 0.2 :)
<Amaranth> oh, but launchpad is offline for the 1.1.10 upgrade
<StevenK> Oh, I'd forgotten about that.
<persia> LP ought to accept uploads into some secret internal location during the upgrade, for processing once it is complete.
<StevenK> persia: I was able to connect to upload.u.c anonymously.
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: has #ubuntu-midwest become obsolete by #ubuntu-us and state channels?
 * persia wonders why Amaranth has difficulties
<Amaranth> i didn't try
<StevenK> I wonder how many more states need LoCo teams.
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, yes
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-nz is still alive, thankfully
<StevenK> If ubuntu-ma doesn't exist, I daresay it will come into being during UDS.
 * imbrandon resides in #ubuntu-missouri
<imbrandon> heh
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: 'k.  That frees up one of my auto-join slots then :)
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso, are you here in the midwest ?
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I'm the team contact for MN now.
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<StevenK> Sigh.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: -us-ma is very much alive.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: They're the ones who printed up the aluminum case badges a few weeks ago
<StevenK> "But Grandpa, there's only 49 stars on your flag." 'It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missouri'
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<imbrandon> where is that from ?
<StevenK> The Simpsons. :-)
<tonyyarusso> rofl
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> thats classic
<imbrandon> hrm how outdated / wrong does this look ? http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
<imbrandon> you debian guys , yes ajmitch thats you
 * tonyyarusso prefers to pretend that we decided not to bother having a Civil War, and are only 33 states at most
<StevenK> With or without slavery?
<persia> imbrandon: sbuild & schroot play together better now, but it looks reasonably close
<tonyyarusso> Without, obviously.  What that strange country to the south has I don't know.
<imbrandon> my wife wants to move to california
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: Of course, we all know the war wasn't about slavery in the first place.
<StevenK> Oh?
<persia> tonyyarusso: Foreign trade :)
<imbrandon> huh?
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: Purely economic - the slave thing was brought up as an issue as they got into it, and made good politics, ultimately.
 * imbrandon missed that in history class, mist have been "peekin and pokin" on my c64
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: It really came down to at the time the south had all of the economic power, being the cotton producer, but the north needed their product for the one industry they did have going for them (textiles)
<tonyyarusso> oh, and tobacco producer, can't forget that
<nxvl> hi all!
<persia> Umm..  rather one group was economically powerful in materials & commodities, and those other in industry.  The industrial group enforced domestic trade in preference to foreign trade.
<tonyyarusso> We do this a lot actually - using the human rights issue as justification after the fact, even if it had little to no influence on the decision to go to war in the first place (See WWII for another example)
<tonyyarusso> persia: right - b/c otherwise the materials would go to the British, and New England's mills would be unnecessary to the world market
<imbrandon> ahh nice new fresh 7.10 on a "model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          4400  @ 2.00GHz" vps server , time to try out this buildd thing
<persia> tonyyarusso: Yes, but not only textile mills.  Also stoneworking, steel mills, etc.
<imbrandon> is wanna-build part of sbuild ?
<RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.
<StevenK> Ah ha, I found the full quote.
<StevenK> Marge: Grandpa, this flag only has 49 stars on it
<StevenK> Grandpa: I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah!
<imbrandon> StevenK, heh
<persia> imbrandon: You need to pull wanna-build and buildd from svn
<tonyyarusso> Yeah really - they can't even say their own state's name
<imbrandon> hrm missery
<imbrandon> persia, ahh i see, i figured it would be packaged by now
<persia> imbrandon: There's just not lots of incentive.  It's not the cleanest way to run a small repo or build farm, and nobody else has as many packages as Debian :)
<persia> (same sort of reason everyone doesn't just run DAK)
<StevenK> I'm over this thing now.
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install debhelper build-essential devscripts patchutils dpatch bzr subversion dh-make cvs
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> i hate clean installs lol, too much to setup
<StevenK> Unable to find package: cvs
<lifeless> StevenK: woo!
<StevenK> :-P
<lifeless> StevenK: and let me say further, woo!
<lifeless> this is a major step forward
<lifeless> now, please nuke svn, git, tla, hg, ...
<TheMuso> lol
<StevenK> Well, it appears my work is done, I've made lifeless happy for about an hour
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> tla, I agree with you, but only if we can nuke Tom Lord, too.
<imbrandon> honestly i really wish someone would add the "svn" meta package to subversion though
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Why?
<imbrandon> so i can apt-get install svn like bzr and cvs and git
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Lazy!
<persia> imbrandon: How often do you find yourself needing to install subversion?  It's only 7 extra characters.
<imbrandon> or i could just say fsk it and make an imbrandon.deb meta package how many times i setup a new system it would be worth it
<imbrandon> persia, about once a week, but it never fails i type svn first and get the package not found error
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Just write a script.
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  If it's that often, submit a patch to make "subversion" Provides: svn.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, then i would have to install the script prior to installing svn , and by then i've rembered to type it all out
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I have made a script that installs all the packages I use on a system. I simply run that script on a new install, and bam, I'm ready to go.
<imbrandon> ahhh yea
<imbrandon> might not be a bad idea
 * persia makes vague noises about preseeding and dget --set-selections
<persia> Umm..  s/dget/dpkg/
<StevenK> How vague?
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> well most of my "reinstalls" are actualy reimages i have no control over the initial image
<imbrandon> so preseeding wont work
<persia> StevenK: Think audio tracks of adults speaking in animated Peanuts
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> I never saw that.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  It's best transliterated as mwrmmm-mhhwhrrr-mhwmm...
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> imbrandon: The episode in question with that quote is "Homer Badman" in season six.
 * StevenK will be watching it when he gets home.
<imbrandon> i'll have to grab that ;)
<imbrandon> anyone made a hardy debootstrap script yet ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Used gutsy and dist-upgraded.
<lucas> what's the status of the hardy repositories?
<lucas> can I uplod my reportbug changes to it? ;)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Symlink hardy to gutsy
<persia> lucas: Go for it.
<imbrandon> StevenK, i did
<imbrandon> ;)
<lucas> ok, thank you
 * persia wonders if anyone is going to send an annoucement to ubuntu-devel-announce@
<mneptok> wah wuh wa wuh wah wuh, wuh wah wuh wuh.
<persia> mneptok: Thank you sir.  I was wondering.
 * mneptok is never seen from the waist up
<imbrandon> ouch, bad thoughts bad thoughts
<mneptok> i'm *all pelvis*, behbeh
 * mneptok woggles a bulge at imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heh
<lifeless> mneptok: bit hard to walk then
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I think its assumed that those who are involved with development know where to check.
<mneptok> oh god. inside voice ...
<mneptok> damn you, lifeless
<lifeless> :>
<imbrandon> haha
<persia> TheMuso: Perhaps.  There was an annoucement for the last couple cycles, with timing similar to the actual timing of the hardy archive open.
 * persia points at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000285.html
<persia> Hmm.  Never mind.  Apparently that is only ever done for the second release of the year (Hoary, Edgy, Gutsy).  My apologies for my misunderstanding of the tradition.
<Burgundavia> persia: what is done for the 2nd release?
<persia> Burgundavia: No announcement.
<Burgundavia> of hardy opening?
<persia> (Plus, I missed before: it's Warty, Breezy, Edgy, Gutsy)
<persia> Burgundavia: Yes.
<imbrandon> persia, i think its more of none does it the second time
<imbrandon> lol
<Burgundavia> hmm, that is certainly a conincidence
<persia> imbrandon: That may be the reason the tradition began, but at this point, perhaps there are tribal superstitions.  One must always avoid the Taboo.
<imbrandon> :P
<imbrandon> haha debootstrap is a bit broke in hardy still ( must be from sync )
<imbrandon> # put any local/close mirrors at the top of the file
<imbrandon> deb     http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main contrib
<imbrandon> deb     http://incoming.debian.org/debian hardy main contrib
<imbrandon> deb-src http://incoming.debian.org/debian hardy main contrib
<imbrandon> is its apt-sources.list
<persia> s/contrib/universe/ no?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> didn't know that debian had a release called hardy
<imbrandon> it dosent
<persia> Has someone already uploaded the devscripts update to default to hardy?
<imbrandon> no i used a gutsy script
<nixternal> wasabi
<imbrandon> hrm ok i have it built going by that howto ( changed for hardy )
<imbrandon> but umm
<StevenK> imbrandon: Dealing with the fun that is sbuild and schroot?
<imbrandon> well i have never used it before , not even sure if its working
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> first problem the buildd daemon dosent seem to be running
<imbrandon> gotta fix that first
<imbrandon> i guess
<imbrandon> and what should `sbuild -D zsh_4.3.2-20` return ?
<imbrandon> if its working
<StevenK> sbuild should take a .dsc as an argument.
<StevenK> sbuild -d hardy zsh_4.3.2-20.dsc
<imbrandon> ahh lemme try that
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  You'll have to use something like sbuild -d hardy -D zsh_4.3.2-20.  "unstable" is the annoyingly hardcoded dfault.
<imbrandon> yea i tryed to change all the unstables to hardy
<imbrandon> it was broke all over
<TheMuso> Don't forget -A for arch all packages.
<persia> imbrandon: In the code?  -d is lots easier
<imbrandon> even to get it to run
<imbrandon> it kept looking for unstable
<persia> TheMuso: Isn't -A only required for ARCH != i386 ?
 * persia thinks this is a pentium 100
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ ps ax|grep build
<imbrandon> 28320 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/buildd
<imbrandon> ok thats working
<TheMuso> persia: No. You need -A for any arch independant packages, such as doc packags.
<StevenK> -A is required to build arch all packages, regardless if it's i386 or not.
<TheMuso> packages
<imbrandon> grrr
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ sbuild -d hardy zsh_4.3.2-20
<imbrandon> Bad distribution
<persia> Ah.  Cool.  I thought the selection of i386 was a hardcoding in sbuild.  If it's just buildd, then perhaps it's easier to change :)
<TheMuso> persia: You may have noticed that only i386 does arch all packages on the buildds.
<TheMuso> Which is why things like language packs clog up the i386 cueue.
<TheMuso> queue
<StevenK> Because the Ubuntu buildds run sbuild with -A on the i386 builders.
<persia> TheMuso: Oh.  Very much so.  Sometimes this has interesting results when the packages aren't really arch: all
<TheMuso> persia: heh.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Exactly.
<imbrandon> so will wanna-build know when to pass -A and such ?
<persia> imbrandon: Check the source, but I suspect the default will be for i386
<Fujitsu> I don't think wanna-build is smart enough to do arch-all.
<Fujitsu> Because in Debian arch: all is never autobuilt.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I'm guessing because the uploader uploads such packages.
 * persia thinks that too has interesting results, but at least it's not purely discrimatory against any specific architecture.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yep.
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ sbuild -d hardy amarok_1.4.7-0ubuntu3
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$
<imbrandon> now it retuns nothing
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: You seem to be missing a .dsc.
 * persia thinks that a log should be populated somewhere
<imbrandon> hrm now it just seems to hang .....
<StevenK> I seem to recall stracing sbuild at one point.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: How do you have schroot set up?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
<persia> imbrandon: And you did s/sid/hardy/ when creating it, right?
<persia> (+ s/unstable/hardy/)
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> ahh its building
<imbrandon> its just doing everything in a log
 * imbrandon is dumb
<persia> ~buildd/logs/ ?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> tail -f -n 500 zsh_4.3.4-14ubuntu2_20071025-0712
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> ok it also looks like it will try to dupload this too ( i changed the dupload.conf ) when its done building
<imbrandon> correct ?
<persia> imbrandon: It should.  Which repo are you using?
<imbrandon> i told it to use "imbrandon" , a fake one pointing to upload.imbrandon.com
<imbrandon> just in case , so it wouldent upload to debian/ubuntu
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  I was thinking about software, rather than nomenclature.  Anyway, the point was to make sure that the manner in which buildd duploads is compatible with your repo.  I also don't think it duploads from a manual run: I think you need a buildd initiated run.
<imbrandon> ahh right
<imbrandon> and i can make the repo compatable, as in i havent set that up yet either, probably will just write a bashscript or use falcon
<persia> imbrandon: As long as you're in an educative mood, you could even use DAK :)
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> IMO you want to use something that does the repo like the official ones are done.
 * persia thinks installing Soyuz on a local server may be difficult
<imbrandon> TheMuso, falcon 2 can be configed to mimic the official repos
<imbrandon> if not its not hard to write a bash script to do it similar to the ones use on kubuntu.org/packages
<imbrandon> well "not hard" is figuretive i guess, it dosent SEEM hard and wasent when i had a repo going a year ago with ~100 packages
<imbrandon> i'm now wondering how all the key signature and such is done
<imbrandon> key sig *checks* on uploads
<imbrandon> hrm
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Funny you should say that, I actually started writing shell scripts to process .changes files, and throw them into a repo using apt-ftparchive, and put them into an sbuild queue. :p
<TheMuso> But if falcon does what I want, then I don't think I'll bother, but I still have them sitting there, if I ever need to dig them out.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> well falcon is based on one uploader iirc , not sure about multi
<imbrandon> could always poke Seveas for the specifics though
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> Well these scripts, once finished, could be adapted for multi, but yeah. Since PPA's are around, I'm not likely to ever make my own repo.
<TheMuso> And these scripts aren't finished, and aren't likely to be for a bit.
<imbrandon> i still like my own because i can target the same package bult against diffrent $dist
<imbrandon> like amarok2 for dapper and hardy ( wont happen , just an example )
<StevenK> I make my own scratch repo's for building stuff against things that aren't in the archive yet.
<imbrandon> ok wth did sbuild put the deb ?
<StevenK> apt-ftparchive FTW
<imbrandon> nevermind
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Usually, .
<imbrandon> yea, ./ was /tmp though and i had alredy left
<imbrandon> and forgot to ls
<persia> TheMuso: The advantage of a local repo is being able to change 15 packages all at once, trace build-deps, etc.  Otherwise you need to bind-mount your results directory, which is slightly less authentic
<imbrandon> man long night
<persia> Night?  Based on your build log, the sun ought to be up, no?
<imbrandon> 233 am, the build is running on a vps a few thousand miles away
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah true. Its just doing it in a way that I'm happy with.
<persia> imbrandon: Ah. :)
<persia> TheMuso: Makes sense.  I still use sbuild 0.53 for the same reason.
<TheMuso> persia: Why 0.53?
<imbrandon> i'm using whatever was in svn
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> TheMuso: I'd need to rebuild all my configs to handle the sbuild integration changes introduced in 0.54.  If I'd only waited a few more weeks to start using sbuild...
<TheMuso> ah
<persia> (err.  the schroot integration changes)
<StevenK> I updated my config after upgrading. I think it involved commenting out one line in my .sbuildrc
<persia> StevenK: It is that simple?  I attempted it once, ended up purging everything, wiping all my local files, reinstalling everything, and finding it didn't work unless I reverted to 0.53.  I'll have to look again (or perhaps my installation is special somehow)
<persia> s/local/~/.s{build,chroot}/
<imbrandon> oh the ppa interface changed, hrm
<TheMuso> How much of a change?
<imbrandon> my deb src lines look wrong AND it looks like they took out the need for overides
<imbrandon> TheMuso, quite a bit
<imbrandon> still no delete i see though
<StevenK> It managed to build something for me after I upgraded to Gutsy.
<StevenK> imbrandon: No, that's later, but we can apparently ask for it now via Answers.
 * TheMuso feels sorry for those at the other end of those requests.
<imbrandon> StevenK, well last week they said it would be in this publish
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive
<imbrandon> ok i'm assuming this buildd is looking for source packages in ~buildd/upload ?
<siretart> but it seems you still cannot remove packages from a PPA yet. hm
<tonyyarusso> siretart: I think it was deferred again
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<siretart> hi imbrandon
<flohack> hi there! I'd like to get a small patch applied to a package. The assignee of the relevant bug does not seem to respond and I don't know whom else I could assign it. Bug is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/149321
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149321 in kdepim "[Gutsy] Basket notes is no longer embedded in kontact!" [Low,In progress]
<imbrandon> hrm i'm missing something here
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ ls -l upload/
<imbrandon> total 984
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd   5781 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd    687 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
<imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd 987786 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1.orig.tar.gz
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ wanna-build --list=needs-build --dist=hardy
<imbrandon> Total 0 package(s)
<imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> wanna-build, doesn't wanna
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Does wanna-build have a -v or something?
<imbrandon> well i'd assume it needs to be run on a cron or something but that howto dident list anything
<imbrandon> and yea
<imbrandon> it has -v
<StevenK> Add -v and see if it tells you where it's looking and such
<imbrandon> well no, lemme pastebin
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42053/
<flohack> Anyone curious to apply a patch to basket?
<StevenK> imbrandon: What does wanna-build -l all say?
<imbrandon> StevenK, im assuming i need to run it in ~buildd/upload  like wanna-build *.dsc
<imbrandon> one sec
<TheMuso> flohack: Is this for hardy, or an earlier release?
<imbrandon> Total 0 package(s)
 * persia dislikes the new publishing history interface
<flohack> It needs fixing in gutsy, as it breaks kde-pim integration for basket
<flohack> but probably in hardy too
<StevenK> persia: I do too, but I've yet to actually put into words why.
<persia> flohack: That patch needs wrapping to be applied correctly.  The assigned developer hasn't looked in a couple days, but will likely get back to it soon (the archives only just opened)
<persia> StevenK: I think it has something to do with the need to scroll, and the colors, but I'm not sure.
<flohack> persia: and 'wrapping' in this context would mean...?
<StevenK> persia: Yeah. If it could be wrapped up like the bits at the side, and it didn't do stupid things like "gutsy-release"
<imbrandon> StevenK, you mean +packages ?
<persia> flohack: Someone needs to prepare a candidate revision including that patch (and perhaps fixes for 110084 and 152022 as well).  I suspect it will be prepared with the merge to hardy, but I'm not sure it will go back to gutsy.
<nxvl> i'm having problems with apache2.2.6 debian/rules
<persia> nxvl: That's a special package.  Are you sure you want to attack it?
<nxvl> persia: yes i am
<nxvl> i'm working on LP bug #130836
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130836 in apache2 "Specify OpenDocument icon(s) in Apache2 configuration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130836
<StevenK> imbrandon: persia and I are discussing the page like http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp
<flohack> persia: You want to say that this bugfix is too small to be applied seperately, don't you? I think we are seeing a general problem with Ubuntu releases here. Bugs are very rarely fixed in released versions. I think that's not a good approach.
<imbrandon> ah
<persia> StevenK: I can live with that - it actually fixes something I didn't like in 1.1.9.  I'm annoyed with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+publishinghistory
<gilligan_> hi.. I have a question on the process of building ubuntu - there is some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment describing the organizational process, but I am curious about the way things are actually implemented. I assume there is some automatic build system to build an ubuntu release ..? is there any place where I could find out more about that ?
<persia> flohack: I'm not knowledgeable enough about basket or kdepim to say whether it should be applied to gutsy or not, but the policy requires that it be applied to hardy prior to being applied to gutsy, so that must happen first.  When fixing hardy, as it's the beginning of the cycle, a developer is likely to try to fix all the bugs, even if it takes a little longer, rather than fixing each one individually.
<nxvl> persia: can you give me a hand?
<persia> nxvl: Not today.  Sorry.
<nxvl> persia: ok, thnx anyway
<flohack> flohack: I see. Thanks for the info, I'll just keep an eye on it.
<nxvl> mmm, the real problem i with uudecode as i'm now seeing
<nxvl> :S
<nxvl> is there any way to put binary files outside debian/ on build?
<imbrandon> ugh if i run `wanna-build *.dsc` on the uploads dir it puts them in the state "building" not needs-building
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, dident you setup a wannabuild at one time
<nxvl> does anyone has wor with uudecode on debian/rules?
<persia> nxvl: I think flobopuyo does that in a fairly transparent manner.  You might take a look there.
<nxvl> persia: i was making a dummy mistake, i have just seen it
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> persia: thnx anyway
<nxvl> btw, can i build only one of the .deb's from a source?
<joumetal> i've built libqalculate-0.9.6 and qalculate-gtk. Istructions were from tuesdays packaging101 session. They built well and run. No further testing is done. What to do next?
<nxvl> or do i need to build them all?
<nxvl> joumetal: find a sponsor
<nxvl> joumetal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<persia> joumetal: Did you prepare a debdiff for a candidate revision?
<BugMaN> hi all
<nxvl> hi!
<joumetal> persia not yet. debdiff of .dsc or debdiff of .deb
<gilligan_> does ubuntu use the same autobuilder setup as in debian ?
<persia> joumetal: debdiff of .dsc.  You might look at the "Preparing New Revisions" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some hints on preparing this.
<persia> gilligan_: No.  Ubuntu uses Soyuz, part of Launchpad.
<huats> mornin al
<huats> l
<imbrandon> gah i give up on this thing for the night, gnight all
<imbrandon> one last smoke and i'm off to sleep
<nxvl> huats: morning, once again you wake up, and i go bed :P
<huats> nxvl: hey
<huats> nxvl: actually I am awake for quite a long time now (3h)
<huats> but I didn't went here before
<huats> but the timing is almost perfect
<huats> :)
<nxvl> huats: and i'm supose to be on bed long time ago (like 4 hours)
<huats> :)
<huats> nxvl: so go to bed
<huats> !
<huats> :)
<nxvl> huats: apache needs me
<nxvl> and i can't sleep
<huats> ok
<nxvl> i think i will have no sleep today
<nxvl> y must go classes in 3 hours
<gilligan_> persia: hm.. are there documents on how soyuz works anywhere? :)
<nxvl> gilligan_: have you search on the wiki?
<persia> gilligan_: Not that I've seen.  The process is basically similar, but implemented differently.  You might try #launchpad
<nxvl> gilligan_: it must be in the wiki or in help.launchapad.net
<gilligan_> nxvl/persia: thanks
<nxvl> gilligan_: or as persia said, ask in #launchpad
<nxvl> ok building, i will try it tomorrow
<nxvl> see you all
<nxvl> *HUGS*
<pkern> ScottK: Don't abuse me. :-P
<BugMaN> persia: can i ask a little question on a bitesize bug?
<persia> BugMaN: Yes, although I encourage you to ask generally, rather than to a specific person.  Others may be as qualified or me to answer your question.
<BugMaN> ok
<BugMaN> bug 33594
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 33594 in screem ".desktop cleanup" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33594
<BugMaN> i'm making a debdiff
 * persia becomes nostalgic
<BugMaN> but what version i can do? gutsy or hardy?
<BugMaN> it's your bug i suppose :)
<persia> BugMaN: That was part of one of my first attempts to fix all the desktop files, and my first experience with being told not to mass-file bugs :)
<BugMaN> :)
<persia> Anyway, you'll want to target hardy: it's certainly not SRU material.  Further, you'll want to check the file: it's been over 6 months, and it may not validate today (I suspect it won't).
<BugMaN> persia:  ok i'm make a package then thes new .desktop file and upload a debdiff for hardy
<BugMaN> /thes/tes
<BugMaN> test *
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOTU's to Advocate my Package on REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=410)
<persia> BugMaN: Right.  At a quick glance, I think my suggested changes from April are still useful, but I suspect there's more needed.
<BugMaN> persia: ok
<persia> StevenHarperUK: it's good practice to also mention whether you're seeking the first advocate or the second in such requests.
 * persia aplogises for not having the appropriate environment to review the package after the complaint.
<StevenHarperUK> Ah well in that case it the First Advocate, I am  the developer and the Package and am completely at your disposal to answer any Questions about it.
<persia> BugMaN: Also, thanks for asking me: regardless of my general advice, when a bug has lots of involvement by a specific person, asking them directly is encouraged.
<BugMaN> persia: perfect :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I can't do a full review, nor leave a comment right now, but a few small points:  Firstly, I'd encourage you to package this as non-native (debian/ in diff.gz) in case it is interesting to other distributions.
<persia> Secondly, I just want to confirm that this is GPL V2 only.
<StevenHarperUK>  It is
<StevenHarperUK> id that makes it simpler
<StevenHarperUK> I own all of it
<persia> Thirdly, unless there are previous uploads in a repository or released to users, a shorter debian/changelog is encouraged.
<StevenHarperUK> So cut the changelog down to the last few revisions?
<persia> Fourthly, I'm not finding the complete text of the GPL in your source package, which I believe to be in violation of GPL v2.
<StevenHarperUK> I thought you could just refrene it
<StevenHarperUK> *Refrence
<persia> re: changelog.  More, focus debian/changelog on release-oriented changes.  I'd recommend ./ChangeLog to contain all your updates to the code.
<StevenHarperUK> ok
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Binary packages may reference it when installed as part of a complete system.  Source packages must include it.
<StevenHarperUK> Is there a place to get the GPL v2 text?
<tonyyarusso> StevenHarperUK: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks
<persia> StevenHarperUK: My apologies, I've been called away.  A last quick note is that I don't see the GPL preamble in the source files.
<scorpioxy> hey guys...anybody awake, i have a few questions on packaging
<gpocentek> scorpioxy: don't ask to ask ;)
<scorpioxy> right..i was just making sure that some people are awake...questions are on the way
<scorpioxy> so i am trying to package a gnome applet...specifically a python applet....first question how is packaging a python program different than a regular one?
<gpocentek> there's a policy for python packages
<scorpioxy> Second question, i read in the PPA transcript that python based apps usually do not follow the regular makefile based packaging but instead follow a distutils base approach, how is that?
<gpocentek> (http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy)
<scorpioxy> gpocentek: the debian python policy...yes i saw that but didn't read it yet....so this also applies to python applets right?
<gpocentek> scorpioxy: I believe that the Makefile/distutils depends on upstream choice
<gpocentek> scorpioxy: I think it applies to applets too, but I've not touched python packages since a while
<scorpioxy> gpocentek: I see. I don't mind the autoconf, makefiles voodoo...but i hate these tools they're so outdated...so i will read that policy first and then ask if my questions are answered there...thanks
<gpocentek> scorpioxy: np, even if the chan seems inactive feel free to ask your questions
<gpocentek> someone will answer, maybe a little later
<StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy : do you need help with a python package... If so I have a SVN location that has my working package with build.sh scripts
<scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: yes please. I was just about to write that i read the policy and i still do not know how to do the package.
<StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: It's a real pain... 1 sec ill get the URL
<StevenHarperUK> do a >svn export http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/
<StevenHarperUK> http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/build_JFDI.sh thats the script that does my actaul build, then I just use dput to submit to REVU and my PPA
<scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: ok thanks. I'll take a look right now.
<StevenHarperUK> No probs, its not 100% perfect but I keep updating it :p
<TheMuso> slangasek: Nice post to -devel-announce. :)
<scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: the bash file is pretty simple. However, the debian directory is already defined. So how can i define the info in the debian directory? Do i follow the regular guide and just skip the building stuff?
<StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy: you have to make all the files in the debian directory, they define what goes in  the package, how its installed and what distributions etc there for...
<StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: basically use mine as a Template, modify all the files in ./debian/
<scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: well that's one way..to just get a package and modify it. I prefer starting from scratch and reading up on the documentation. If they don't exist, i will write some. I will defer to the packaging guide and experiment a little. Thank you, i will use your applet as an example when i am stuck.
<norsetto> morning all
<StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: feel free to email me at StevenHarperUK_AT_gmail.com if you need more help
<StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: I was planning to wite my own guide - as there isnt a good one - after I have finished this project
<scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: Thanks. Well, perhaps we can collaborate when i actually learn this stuff.
<StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy: I'll be up for that
<BugMaN> hi norsetto can you check my patch for bug 33594?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 33594 in screem ".desktop cleanup" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33594
<norsetto> BugMaN: have you subscribed u-u-s?
<BugMaN> norsetto: nope, i'll do now :)
<Lutin> I was just wondering ... is there an actual point keeping a diff against debian for ctsim ? Looks like it's not really useful to me, but I'd like to make sure
<norsetto> BugMaN: ok, thanks, it will show in my list of things to do, so I'll check it as soon as I can
<BugMaN> norsetto: thanks :)
<Lutin> heya persia
<persia> Good day Lutin
 * persia thanks slangsek for the announcement
<TheMuso> persia: I found the metaphore very amusing
<TheMuso> Considering what I'll be doing tomorrow.
<persia> TheMuso: heh.
<Lutin> persia: can you have a look at the ctsim merge, and tell me if you see the point of keeping merging it ?
<deadwill> yo!
<rexbron> persia: I have uploaded genpo to revu (upid 406). When you get a moment, I would really apreciate your feedback. Thanks a lot :)
<persia> rexbron: Sure.  I'll take a look in the next hour or so.
<rexbron> persia: :)
<persia> Lutin: A long long time ago, Ubuntu transitioned X before Debian.  I believe Debian has since made the transition, but I don't remember all the details.  If ctsim installs and runs without the patch, then there's no real value.
<rexbron> persia: I have a question that perhaps you could answer. When I created the source upload, I told debuild to ignore .bzr (-i.bzr) but I still get a lintian warning about including .bzr in the source. Is there something else I need to include in the debuild line to exculde that dir?
<persia> Lutin: On another note, I'm even more motivated to purge wxwindows for hardy, as it's LTS.  Currently ctsim segfaults for reasons I don't entirely understand when I build it with wxwidgets.  I don't suppose you'd take a look at that, for a new patch to merge, rather than going for a sync.
<persia> rexbron: Use bzr export to generate the orig.tar.gz.
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
<rexbron> persia: ok will do and reupload
<persia> rexbron: OK.  Let me know the upid when you're ready.
<ScottK> Hello TheMuso
<Lutin> persia: so what do you think, that a sync is best ?
<persia> Lutin: I'm 99% sure a sync won't last until Hardy because of wxwindows -> wxwidgets, as we *really* don't want to support the complete brokenness of wxwindows for all of LTS.  I'm not sure that the existing Ubuntu variation warrants a merge, as I think we solved the problem a different way in Edgy, but I don't remember the details.
<pkern> persia: I'd guess you should note details for future reference. :-P
<Lutin> persia: ok
<persia> pkern: Has Debian completed the XFree86 to X.org transition yet?  That's the critical factor in determining whether we should maintain the patch.
<pkern> Should I rofl?
<persia> pkern: More interestingly, if the transition was done, why haven't the ctsim package dependencies change?
<persia> s/change/changed/
<pkern>  ctsim (4.5.4-1) unstable; urgency=low
<pkern>    * New upstrea
<pkern> Should I really comment on such uploads?
<pkern> persia: File a bug, be happy?
<pkern> Probably an oversight.
<persia> pkern: That's one of the tricky things: way back when, we were told not to file bugs for the x.org transition, and now it's just legacy cruft.  I suppose a bug would do, but there's much more that needs doing for that package :)
<pkern> If it's legacy cruft it warrants a bug.
<pkern> Of course if there is a transition plan within Debian it's not sensible to interfere with it.
<persia> pkern: Right.  Thanks for the confirmation.  We don't tend to keep track of the Debian transition plans very well, and so forget to get annoyed when a package doesn't finish within the Debian timeframe.
<pkern> And a certain reluctance to file Debian bugs...
<ScottK> One would like to be fairly certain to avoid blowback, yes.
<persia> Lutin: Based on that, how about just filing a bug against ctsim in Debian, with a small patch that does the right thing.  We might get lucky for a sync from the current diff, and I'm not sure of the timeframe for anyone actually investigating the issues with ctsim and wxwidgets.
 * persia points pkern at debhelper 0.55 as a counter-argument to a reluctance to file bugs
<Lutin> persia: the right thing being ? I'm no wx expert ;)
<pkern> ScottK: If you use your Ubuntu hat... probably.
<pkern> HEY I AM TEH UBUNTU AND I WANT TEH BUGS TO BEH FIXED. :-P
<ScottK> Basically, yeah.
<pkern> The other way being "Hey, I am a follower of the swirl, and this bug really annoys me. Would you mind to fix it?"...
 * pkern is silly.
<persia> Lutin: If you're willing to hunt the stacktrace for the wx port, fixing it would be good.  If you don't want to look at that, I'd suggest filing a bug in Debian about the xlib stuff, and waiting a few weeks.  Someone else might investigate the WX stuff later.
<Lutin> persia: I'll have a look
<fernando> moin all
<ScottK> pkern: Most of the Debian bugs I file are either trivial to fix and a patch would be an insult or I provide the patch..
<persia> Lutin: Thanks.  My experience was that it seemed to be less painful using wxwidgets2.6, but you might find wxwidgets2.8 easier (of course, that can't go back to Debian yet)
<Lutin> k
<pkern> ScottK: Right.  That's the preferred way.
<pkern> And if the person is on the LowThresholdNmu list it's not a problem to NMU the fix in on (known) non-response.
<ScottK> So I haven't actually had the blowback problem, but I know people that have.
<ScottK> I tend to be more of the, I told Debian how to DTRT, up to them now.  It's fixed in Ubuntu, so my attention span is limited view.
<ScottK> Unless it's in a place where I have svn access (Python Modules/Apps, then I just fix it).
<ScottK> Good morning fernando.
<pkern> ScottK: Full ACK on that.
<persia> For some things, I prefer to pass a good solution to Debian, and wait.  Some maintainers get extra stubborn when Ubuntu implements something before they've had a chance to think about it.  Depends on the individuals involved (and the importance of actually doing it in any specific timeframe)
<pkern> And there are changes in Ubuntu... which are... uh... indeed strange.
<pkern> Better don't try to push the ldconfig.real hack :-P
<persia> pkern: No.  That was only because of the release deadline.  There's a much better solution already in Debian, but it would have required recompiling 5 or six packages, rather than just one.
 * ScottK has no idea what that is.
<persia> ScottK: aolserver4
<ScottK> Ah.  Particularly since that let openssl097 die an unlamented death Monday before the release.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  The correct solution is in Debian, but we were in a hurry.
 * persia plans to fix all that this weekend
<ScottK> Great.
<pkern> No, the sole presence of ldconfig as a wrapper which essentially does nothing.
<jdong> heh launchpad janitor expired the azureus bug
<persia> pkern: Ah.  That is likely to be reverted at some point, as soon as the dpkg-triggers is more generally implemented.  Actually, it's a fairly good indication that it was being called too many times during package installation that there was so little breakage.
 * jdong thinks the expiration algorithm is still a bit screwy
<persia> jdong: Reopen.  The Janitor isn't as smart as it thinks it is.
<ScottK> jdong: Don't worry.  They turned that off.  They've told us that several times.  Any expiration notices you think you got are a figment of your imagination.
<jdong> ScottK: ROFL
<jdong> " Launchpad Janitor  wrote 56 minutes ago:  (permalink)"
<jdong> must be a wormhole ;-)
 * Fujitsu has seen it run once or twice since it was turned off.
<ScottK> Yeah.  I got a bunch overnight too.
<Fujitsu> Both... `mistakes', I seem to recall.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Thanks for taking care of azureus.
 * persia regularly gets notices, but perhaps that's an indication of bugs not getting attention
<jdong> oddest part, the part of the ticket he said it expired for 60 days of inactivity... I changed the status *yesterday* :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: Yeah, it's buggy, and meant to be turned off.
<jdong> Fujitsu: sure thing :) glad to see it working again
<ScottK> persia: The point is the functionality is currently in a known broken state.  They've SAID it was off.
<persia> jdong: The janitor has trouble differentiating the age of different tasks.
<persia> ScottK: Please, I completely agree with you :)
 * jdong twiddles thumbs waiting for azureus to build in hardy :)
 * persia praises the all-mighty omniscient StevenK for understanding my problem with sbuild 0.56.  If only Telstra was competent...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: And it has grown more broken if it expired something after a status change yesterday.
<ScottK> It's been that broken from the start.
<persia> Fujitsu: I've had notices within hours of a status change, both recently, and when the Janitor first got over-excited.  Are you really sure it's worse?
<ScottK> It's going on when it was set incomplete, not when it was last commented on.
<Fujitsu> I thought status changes always stopped it, but comments didn't.
<persia> ScottK: No.  It's going on when it was first set incomplete, not anything else.
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  That's more precisely correct.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's the spec :)
<Fujitsu> It's completely bleeped up, anyway.
 * persia thinks even comments should keep it open, but that's unrelated to the current implementation not matching the spec
<ScottK> The design is bad and they didn't even implement that correctly.
<persia> ScottK: Right, but those are two separate issues, which shouldn't be conflated.
<ScottK> Agreed, but from my perpective they both have the same observable.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that was meant to be fixed in the next iteration. 
<persia> Fujitsu: Which of the two problems?
<Fujitsu> persia: That comments aren't keeping them open.
<ScottK> That and dupes being expired is a bug too.
<persia> Fujitsu: So the current plan is to adjust the broken design to introduce new features without resolving the implementation issues?
<Fujitsu> persia: What implementation issues?
<zul> morning
<persia> Fujitsu: On when it should be off, not noticing status changes (regardless of comments), etc.
<persia> Umm.  That read badly.  Rather "without regard to whether comments are changing anything (which would be a new feature (and a welcome one))
<ScottK> Well I just asked in #launchpad and it's clearly a suprise to the LP developers that it's still on.
<Fujitsu> It can't be that hard to find the cron job and turn it off, surely.
 * persia was waiting for a fairly stable state prior to providing feedback, as it's too hard to distinguish bugs from feature requests for a sensible conversation presently
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Apparently.
<ScottK> ... it is
<jdong> I got a Free-Non-Free question.
<jdong> let's say I bootstrap IcedTea with sun-java6-jdk
<jdong> is the resulting icedtea free or non-free?
<Fujitsu> Depends how much of its soul Sun Java injects, I guess... Presumably not much, so free.
<jdong> I'm thinking of possible ways to backport the azureus package to Feisty
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<jdong> building icedtea is one way, which will be a struggle....
<ScottK> There's always use that to build it one more time ...
<jdong> the "binary" (bytecode, I guess) package from Gutsy/Hardy will run on Feisty without any dependency issues
<jdong> but it will be forced to use a sun-java6-* runtime
<Fujitsu> You could bootstrap icedtea in feisty-backports/multiverse, move it to universe, reupload it to build on itself... or just convince lamont.
<jdong> i.e. multiverse.
<jdong> Fujitsu: IIRC the reason I can't build a package with sun-java6 is because teh buildd needs human interaction, right?
<jdong> (to accept an EULA)
<Fujitsu> Ooh, yes.
<jdong> Fujitsu: I'm thinking the "simplest" solution, if we have to involve lamont, is to just have him help facilitate a build against sun-java6?
<Fujitsu> That's why batik and co fail..
<jdong> (of course the resulting backport will be demoted to multiverse)
<jdong> but it's not like Backports actually tracks pockets anymore
<Fujitsu> It shouldn't be too difficult to get icedtea bootstrapped into -backports, should it?
<jdong> Fujitsu: I've got nothing to bootstrap with
<jdong> Fujitsu: I mean.... do I even dare to think gcj can compile java well enough to  build another runtime?
<jdong> remember how badly it does with a torrent app like 1/10 of the size ;-)
<Fujitsu> True.
<jdong> and bootstrapping against sun-java* would be no easier than just compiling azureus with one of those
<jdong> I cannot imagine requiring any more of these azureus backports.... Feisty is done.
<ScottK> jdong: Many people will wait some months to upgrade, so it's useful.  There are also some kernel regressions that I suspect will leave some people on Feisty for some time.
<jdong> ScottK: well, I want at least one backport (the 2.5.0.4 fixed packaging) to give Feisty folks a properly working Azureus
<Fujitsu> As much as Azureus is capable of working...
<ScottK> Agreed.
<jdong> ScottK: next one down the road is a 3.0.3.4 upload to hardy based off Debian, needs a new SWT 3.3 dependency... and I have no real interest in porting that to Feisty
<jdong> ScottK: especially since, Azureus is binary and arch independent
<jdong> struggling so much just to make it read "~feisty1" doesn't make sense to me :)
<ScottK> Agreed.
<jdong> are the archives capable of making binary copies?
<ScottK> Broken -> Not broken is significant, beyond that, sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
<jdong> right
<Fujitsu> jdong: I believe so, but I don't think it is done.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Isn't that how they get from *-proposed to *-updates or is that just source?
<jdong> hmm
<persia> jdong: It must be done manually, and is frowned upon, as it means that the package cannot be guaranteed to generate from the provided source, often causing license issues.
<proppy> hi
<proppy> norsetto: ping
<jdong> persia: yeah, it does sound nasty
<jdong> well, I'm off to class, take care everyone
<Fujitsu> ScottK: That's both, but binary-only isn't done.
<ScottK> Ah.  I see.
 * persia notes that binary-only is done for new development releases, often causing lots of silent FTBFS bugs due to toolchain updates
<persia> (this is why hardy looks so much like gutsy, and the buildds aren't as busy as one might expect)
<ScottK> The launchpad but janitor has been turned off again.  It was accidentally turned back on.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's source too.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Did the rollout turn it on?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: kiko didn't say, just that it was done accidentally.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, it isn't.  I've seen packages incapable of being built from the provided source make it through three releases.
<persia> (or rather, both source and binaries are copied, but the binaries aren't generated from the source as part of the process)
<Fujitsu> persia: That doesn't mean the source isn't copied too...
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Fujitsu> That would kill the buildds for weeks, which is probably a bad thing.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Sorry.  I missed the your point.  I was talking about plain binary copies (which aren't done, as a rule) whereas I now understand you were talking about binary copies without associated source (which aren't done, as a more stringent rule)
<Fujitsu> persia: You said that `binary-only is done for new development releases', which confused me somewhat.
<persia> Fujitsu: Would it be a bad thing?  I don't see how it's much worse than turning on the sync and asking for all the merges.  It'd expose toolchain issues earlier as well.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: And they also managed to break at least some remote bug watches too.
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<bluekuja> amachu, hi there
<pkern> Do we get an archive rebuild for universe?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: There were some significant changes in that area, so I wouldn't be surprised.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Not except those from lucas.
<amachu> bluekuja: yes
<pkern> Fujitsu: But those are "only" QA checks, and are not uploaded?
<persia> pkern: Right.
<Fujitsu> pkern: Right.
<amachu> bluekuja: i edited the debian/control file and removed conflict
<Fujitsu> We don't have a sane binNMU procedure.
<pkern> I think it would be worthwhile to get it for a LTS. ):
<bluekuja> amachu, did you post the debdiff on the bug?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Do you know which piece of LP I should file the bug against?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Bugwatches? malone.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<amachu> bluekuja: not yet
<persia> pkern: We've requested one for LTS, but it will still be manual cleanup for the FTBFS issues, and we won't absorb non-breaking changes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do we have any binNMU procedure?
<effie_jayx> Hey guys could anyone give me a hand with my gpg key.. I have the data backed up but I need to import it to my new system. (It's blocking me from signing packages) :(
<pkern> There's this XbuildY stuff?
<bluekuja> amachu, ok, what do you need?
<Fujitsu> persia: Only one that involves source uploads too, ie buildX, so no.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought.
<persia> pkern: Yes, but we only do that when we notice.  Pushing everything anytime after the first public version (about 6 weeks in) would block either the feature implementation or the bugfix workflow.
<persia> (most XbuildY stuff is really to support full library transitions, as opposed to subtle changes)
<pkern> We should at least recompile everything that hasn't been built since release X... but then if there is no binNMU support in place...
<pkern> i.e. stricter QA and removal of obviously broken packages. ):
<amachu> bluekuja: this is what i did
<persia> pkern: We don't have any place to put removed packages.  Once it's gone, it requires lots of effort to get it back.
<amachu> i ran the grab-merge.sh
<pkern> It requires a sync?
<amachu> it retrieved the files from DaD
<amachu> then went through the REPORT file
<Fujitsu> pkern: Basically, and unblacklisting.
<pkern> persia: I don't share this concern.
<amachu> edited the debian/control file
<ScottK> And Newing again.
<Fujitsu> And we have to keep track of what's missing, and what should be brought back.
<persia> And all of that means the archive-admins have less time for the useful syncs, NEWs, and blacklisting that is their daily job.
<pkern> Well we sync from unstable, and there is stuff which is even removed from testing for obvious reasons which is present in Ubuntu.
<pkern> persia: Bah.
<pkern> persia: So universe QA isn't a priority, time to quit?
<persia> pkern: I generally try to pull all of that around when we finish import sync.  If you'd like to help filing the removal bugs, I'd appreciate more eyes
<amachu> and removed the conflict
<ScottK> Bug #157059 if anyone is interested in more LP breakage.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157059 in malone "Remote bug watches broken by new release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157059
<bluekuja> amachu, fine
<bluekuja> amachu, now debuild and debdiff it
<bluekuja> amachu, paste the debdiff on the bug and subscribe u-u-s
<pkern> persia: If we get the Freeze more early (which I heared will be the case).
<persia> pkern: Not to quit, but that removals of things that may be useful to someone and still exist in Debian require special circumstances, beyond being completely broken.
<ScottK> persia: We're about to test that.  I filed a removal bug on a dangerously broken (from a security and other perspective) package.  Dunno what'll happen with it.
<amachu> i will try and ping you
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I would have thought there would have been some kind of sanity check/migration run over a copy of the production DB, to catch things like that... a bugwatch going to Unknown should really raise some automated flags.
<bluekuja> amachu, great
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I would like lots of credit for being VERY restrained on #launchpad.
<persia> ScottK: dangerously broken?  Which bug?  This could make getting rid of wxwindows require significantly less time on my part.
 * ScottK looks
<Fujitsu> persia: haha.
<ScottK> The package in question adds itself to sudoers.
<ScottK> persia: Bug 154730
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154730 in secvpn "Please remove secvpn source and binary from Hardy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154730
<pkern> "itself"?
<ScottK> pkern: In the postinst
<jdong> ScottK: heh, as in the user the package creates?
<ScottK> It's user
<ScottK> Yeah
<persia> Fujitsu: The remaining packages either haven't had an upstream release in eons, or don't have any plan to migrate.
<pkern> ScottK: "Its" :-P
<jdong> ScottK: universal sudoers? or just a single command?
<ScottK> It's a limited set of command
<ScottK> commands
<pkern> "long gone inittab"... lalala
<ScottK> That too.
<ScottK> Basically it's broken beyond repair for Ubuntu and I'm not going to redo the entire package.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I suppose that means I should actually see if the package is useful before trying to fix bugs :)
<ScottK> Your heart was in the right place
<pkern> persia: We released Gutsy with things like linux-igd, which are so obviously broken. bug 133852
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133852 in linux-igd "[UNMETDEPS][Gutsy] Broken dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133852
<pkern> At least turck-mmcache got removed. ;)
<ScottK> pkern: Get busy on the SRU then.
<Fujitsu> pkern: As well as libapache-*
<pkern> ScottK: Not fixable.
<pkern> Fujitsu: Yep.
<ScottK> Oh.  Nevermind
<pkern> That's the point.  We obviously can't remove packages when they have been released.
<pkern> -> we need to be more strict what we led into a LTS. But well.
<pkern> universe isn't a priority. :-P
<persia> pkern: It's attention.  I went through about 75 of the most broken packages in the last couple weeks before release to close those, but I didn't find all of them, and ran out of time.  More QA people means fewer QA problems.
<Hobbsee> persia: the packages are still on launchpad.
<pkern> persia: Aye.  But if the general opinion is to rather die than to remove packages, I don't see much of a point. ;)
<pkern> In Librarian! :-P
<persia> Hobbsee: My apologies, but I'm failing to collect enough meaning to respond intelligently.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The launchpad bug janitor was 'accidentally' turned back on too.
<ScottK> OTOH, I do like this new source package front page better than the last new source package front page.
<persia> pkern: It's not "rather die", it's that it's usually not more than an hour or two to fix those that aren't completely useless, and people need to carefully identify the completely useless ones to make sure 1) upstream won't fix everything soon, 2) there is an alternative, and 3) there isn't any sane way to fix it.
<Hobbsee> persia: sorry, was reading backscroll.  the packgaes removed are still on launchpad
<persia> pkern: It just takes time.
<Hobbsee> (publically)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yay...
<lamont> jdong/Fujitsu: fixed in gutsy. :0)
<persia> Hobbsee: Not all of them :)  I understand that Warty and Hoary have been purged, so some can finally die their deserved deaths.
<lamont> (icedtea)
<Fujitsu> Urrrgh, what killed +publishinghistory?
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right.
<ScottK> persia: Google probably has those.
<persia> Hobbsee: Alternately, would you volunteer to deal with the blacklist cleanup if we removed all the useless packages for hardy, and then needed to get some of them back for j* ?
<Hobbsee> persia: no.
<Hobbsee> persia: -ENODRESCHERACCESS
<persia> ScottK: And the wayback machine, but I don't care about them as much.  People can't file bugs and expect any sensible response.
<Fujitsu> persia: They're swtill in librarian.
<Fujitsu> s/w//
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Until we get a volunteer, I still believe it's generally worth the hour or so not not be completely broken.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's still there, just sinfully ugly and nearly useless.
<Hobbsee> persia: it wouldnt be hard, assuming someone else came up with a list of what should be unblacklisted.
<Fujitsu> THey're gone from archive.ubuntu.com, that's all.
<zul> are we talking about the driver sources in universe (ie: linux-igd)?
<persia> Hmmm....
<Fujitsu> What do others think of the new +publishinghistory?
<zul> broken packages like linux-igd?
 * persia wants the old +publishinghistory back
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> So you can actually see what is happening.
<persia> zul: Yes.
<Fujitsu> Rather than scrolling through some large number of non-tabular pages.
<ScottK> persia: Let's go find sabdfl and beat him up over it.
<persia> The old one was still pretty.
<persia> ScottK: I'm not good at controlling the amount of unleashed violence, so I'd best sit that out.
 * ScottK wasn't expecting you to.
<zul> persia: the problem with things like linux-igd (kernel drivers in universe) is that they are usually made specific for debian not ubuntu and dont work with our kernel sources, so you have to find someone interesting in fixing them for ubuntu or they will remain broken
<zul> nature of the beast
<Fujitsu> The timeline for each sourcepackagerelease on the new one is nice, but a lot harder to read, and probably more appropriate on the home page.
<persia> zul: Right.  As I understand it, our current policy is that someone should become interested, rather than that we should purge it.  There have been a few cases where some bugs were filed, and a team was formed to address it (rt2500 springs to mind)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: No, it's much more important to have semi-random debian/changelog bits there.
 * persia also wants a link to changelogs.ubuntu.com
<zul> rt2500 shouldnt probably be included in universe since there are kernel drivers for rt2500 for ubuntu already provided by the kernel team
<Fujitsu> persia: But you can't link to outside LP! LP must do everything!
<persia> Fujitsu: What about the default external link on https://launchpad.net/~fujitsu/ to wiki.ubuntu.com.  Can't we have something like that?
<zul> persia: i would become interested but I dont have the time
<persia> zul: That's good to hear.  It validates my understanding of the policy.  Now we just need more people with your interests, to help share the load :)
<zul> persia: alot of people on the motu team dont have a clue about kernel drivers as well
<persia> zul: That's true today, but I'm not sure that all new contributors will also not have any understanding.  Plus, there are several people who can program, but don't really have any interests yet, and can be drawn towards things...
<zul> persia: sure
<joumetal_> bug 133336 any comments?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133336 in libqalculate "New upstream version" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133336
<Hobbsee> joumetal_: please update it.
 * Hobbsee wondesr which version that is.
<Hobbsee> oh nice.
<Hobbsee> joumetal_: have you thought of pushing that to debian, and we sync?
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<persia> joumetal_: You might get a better response by putting it on REVU than in LP.  Alternately, you'd want to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get someone to consider uploading.
<Hobbsee> debian maintainer is quite happy to take uploads, if someone else has done the work.
<Hobbsee> joumetal_: presuably youv'e done qalculate* too?
<joumetal_> Hobbsee persia I am quite newbie. First subscribing u-u-s. qalculate-gtk yes.
<persia> joumetal_: It's not an issue to be new, although please accept that we may sometimes be brusque when critiquing candidates.  This is indeed the best place to ask questions to become familiar with the processes, and soon you'll no longer be new.
 * Hobbsee really would look at pushing that to debian, if it's right.
<Hobbsee> NMU as required
 * Hobbsee emails the maintainer about it
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: you around?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes
<persia> Hobbsee: consider adding to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=libqalculate&archive=no&version=&dist=unstable instead of just emailing the maintainer :)
<Hobbsee> persia: iv'e have previous contact with the maintainer.  *shrug*
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, need something?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: one of the other reasons it's good to notify people, which i forgot to tell you yesterday, is for if you upload a crackful package like apt.
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  OK.  I believe in public, but I won't step on personal connections.
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, what happened with it?
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: every time someone uploads apt, even if it's a no-change rebuild, the effective soname changes, and a whole bunch of stuff needs rebuilding,e very single time :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: i havent found another pakcage like ityet, but i wouldnt be that there arent more like that :)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: and you only find that out if the maintainer warns you of that, or you find out because everyone's screaming at you over what you broke :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, hehe true
 * Hobbsee thougth xen was in main, anyway
<geser> Hobbsee: apache2-mpm-itk needs also a rebuild everytime someone uploads apache2 (due to dependencies)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: so all in all, a great idea to ask :)
<Hobbsee> geser: there you go.  another crackful package.
<zul> Hobbsee: xen is in main, bits and pieces are in universe
 * Hobbsee suspects some of the libs do that too
<Hobbsee> zul: ahh
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, you're right. I asked sorry to zul about it :)
 * persia thinks there are lots of them, although the Debian "make everything binNMU safe" effort will help.
<amachu> bluekuja: i am understanding now :-)
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem, i'm not trying to grill you - i just remembered the other thing that i'd forgotten to tell you of last night - which most people arent even aware of
<amachu> started to get things right
<amachu> :-)
<Hobbsee> most people have not had the misfortune to upload packages like apt :)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, well done. Every advice is alwais really welcome
<bluekuja> :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<bluekuja> brb
<bigon> mmm I have a strange issue when building a package using cdbs, I get a lintian warning debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink
<bigon> does somebody else see the same thing?
<persia> bigon: Umm..  That's because the symlink thing is only partly done.  You can safely ignore the lintian warning as long as the dependencies guarantee that the symlink will always work (which it should, or CDBS shouldn't use the symlink)
<bigon> but I don't get this when building in a sid pbuilder
<persia> bigon: For extra points, prepare a patch against lintian that checks the package dependencies, and doesn't complain if the symlink is guaranteed to resolve.
<persia> bigon: sid doesn't have the CDBS symlink change
<bigon> oh
<bigon> it seems to be a violation of the debian policy :o
<bluekuja> amachu, back, nice to hear that
<bluekuja> :)
<persia> bigon: It is.  The idea is that if the symlink is guaranteed to resolve, it should be safe in practice, and it saves space on the CDs and for mobile.
<persia> (especially for packages with lots & lots of identical changelogs, like OOo, etc.)
<bigon> kk I saw something about the upstream changelog but not the debian one
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I have made all the changes suggested by persia (MOTU) this morning, are there any MOTU's available to check and Advocate my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=412
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Better request, but still missing how many advocates you already have :)  I'll take another (better) look in a little bit.
<StevenHarperUK> ah your still here: I have 0 Advocates :P
<geser> StevenHarperUK: why is this a native package? (no .orig.tar.gz)
<StevenHarperUK> ah : thats the only bit I didn't understand
<StevenHarperUK> My build script makes it with the version number
<StevenHarperUK> Im not sure what I have to change
<persia> StevenHarperUK: To make it a non-native package, you (as upstream) should prepare a version with no debian/directory to use for orig.tar.gz.  Then you add the debian/ directory in your candidate release, and set the version to be x.z.y-0ubuntu1 in your changelog.  This makes a normal package.
<geser> you need to have an easycrypt_0.2.1.4_orig.tar.gz (unmodified upstream code) and a version like 0.2.1.4-0ubuntu1
<geser> dpkg-buildpackage should generate a diff.gz for it
<StevenHarperUK> What's a good way to go about this? I'm running  this at the moment : sudo dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -I\.svn -tc -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
<StevenHarperUK> Do have I have Hand Crank  the Orig tar?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: you dont need to sudo, if you're running with -rfakeroot
<StevenHarperUK> ah yes
 * Hobbsee tries to figure out what the last part does, after the -sa
<StevenHarperUK> removes .svn files
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I'd suggest you prepare a release tarball with svn export -r nnnn, and then use that for orig.tar.gz.  It should shorten your commandline to `debuild -S -sa`
<StevenHarperUK> and signs the files
<geser> StevenHarperUK: I usually use dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -uc -uc, check if the source package builds in a pbuilder and sign then with debsign
<rexbron> persia: I reuploaded with the non .bzr containing source package, care to look at it? upid 413
<persia> rexbron: I'm currently deeply stuck into upid 406.  Unless you made lots of other changes, all my comments will still apply.
<Fujitsu> Hm... hasn't -security traditionally kept to its own buildds?
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  It shares, and gets higher priority.
<Fujitsu> persia: I thought jackass had its own wanna-build etc. setup, hence the buildd for each architecture for security.
 * Hobbsee wonders how to make this phone show up in nautilus, connected by a usb cable.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What kind of phone?
<Fujitsu> Most aren't browsable like that...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: samsung
<Hobbsee> tis on windows.
<persia> Fujitsu: I've seen lots of security builds on the normal buildds before, but don't know the internals as well as you.
<persia> Hobbsee: gnome-phone-manager might help, but gnokii doesn't support lots and lots of models.
<Hobbsee> why doesnt nautilus Just Handle It?
<Fujitsu> I didn't think it was done, but hmm...
<Hobbsee> it's a fricking USB connection.  it shouldnt be that hard?
<persia> Hobbsee: You might also try the obex;// style links, but I've never gotten those to work.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Nautilus doesn't speak Proprietary Phone Protocol X.
<Fujitsu> USB defines very little protocol.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, but gnome-vfs handles OBEX over serial over USB, if everything is configured properly.
<Fujitsu> Assuming that the phone speaks OBEX.
 * persia thought all recent phones spoke OBEX, excepting those sold by NTT
 * Hobbsee wonders why konqueror does, then.
<Hobbsee> ah, it found the mini-sd card.  good.
<persia> Hobbsee: konquerer doesn't try nearly as hard to do the right thing, and so tends to just work when manufacturers do the right thing.
<Hobbsee> ah.
 * persia asserts that Makefiles are insufficiently original to be worthy of copyright
<Fujitsu> persia: Stealing some debian/rules?
<Kmos> happydigger ( http://packages.qa.debian.org/h/happydigger/news/20071020T184703Z.html ) can't be synced in hardy? It now uses GTK 2+ v2.12.0
<persia> Fujitsu: No, just failing to complain about license issues when upstream doesn't preamble the Makefile.  It'd just be useless clutter.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> right.  got the photos off the phone.
<sacater> Hobbsee: heya
<sacater> Hobbsee: got any ideas on this? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/15816
<persia> rexbron: I've stuck up a task list :)  If I'm not around when you upload next, please email me.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> sacater: there's an existing bug about acpid.  i asked mjg59 to look into it.  unsure if he ever did.
<sacater> Hobbsee: shall i answer with details on the acpi bug?
<geser> Hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> sacater: probably a good idea
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sacater> Hobbsee: will do
<sacater> Hobbsee: do you have a link to the bug?
<sacater> to hand
<Hobbsee> sacater: no.  but it's not ahrd to find.
<Kmos> I'm not at linux now, can someone do a requestsync for homebank ? it can be synced..
<sacater> kk
 * Hobbsee duped a whol ebunch against it before
<Hobbsee> Kmos: does it have ubuntu changes?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: yes..
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/h/homebank/news/20071014T173941Z.html
<Hobbsee> Kmos: can they be dropped?  if so, why.
<persia> Kmos: You can request one manually by filing a bug.  No need to run the script.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: they're not dropped.. but it was added
<Hobbsee> giving me a URL to the new changes file is not answering the question.
<Hobbsee> as in, they werent dropped from ubuntu, but were added to debian?
<Kmos> * debian/control: added librsvg2-common to Depends (LP: #130847)
<Kmos> this is the last change in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> if that's true, yes they can be dropped.  or you're confused.  either way.
<Kmos> that's added in debian version
<Hobbsee> Kmos: what about all the stuff from ubuntu1?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i think i need to check that when i got home
<zul> Kmos: i think what Hobbsee is trying to say is what leg work have you done to make sure that it works with Ubuntu?
<Kmos> zul: i understand that
<Hobbsee> Kmos: right.  then dont even bother asking for people to file it for you, or check it, before you've done that.
<Kmos> i need to check at home the ubuntu1 changes
 * Hobbsee thought you had learned something since last time.
<sacater> another LP question 'Will libapache2-mod-layout be introduced to gutsy at some point ? And if so, When ?'
<sacater> anyone know :/
<Hobbsee> sacater: if it's not there now, it never will be.
<Hobbsee> unless it gets backported
<sacater> lol kk
 * Hobbsee wonders if anyone else is under hte delusion that you only need to check the last ubuntu change, and screw any before that.
<bddebian> You mean there might be more than the last one?
 * bddebian hides
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes, there might be 26 of the fricking things, and it might be very unwise to assume that it can be synced!  :P
<sacater> :o
<sacater> my blog site downed..
<bluekuja> amachu, check what I've added you in the butg
<pkern> SONAME changes on simple rebuilds are scary and should be avoided .
<bluekuja> *bug
<sacater> i need to use a wordpress or something o.O
<persia> StevenHarperUK: A dozen small notes added to upid 412, although there will likely be more if the package is looked at in more detail (I'll wait for your non-native upload).
<Hobbsee> pkern: indeed!
<Hobbsee> pkern: mvo means to fix it sometime.
<pkern> Hobbsee: Or what our "trainer" at university once wrote as a footnode when dealing with Shannon information: Unlike the real world you don't know less when you consume certain information. ;)
<huats> hello everyone
<Hobbsee> haha
<pkern> But my English skills are lacking to translate this properly. \:
<StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks plent to get on with
<huats> I was wondering : I've been doing some merges recently (what like everyone ??? ;)) and I like to know how to test them properly... Is the right way "take clean gutsy, change the sources to point to hardy.. and dist-uprgade ?"
<zul> hauts: better way would be testing them in a chroot
<Hobbsee> or pbuilder
<Hobbsee> assuming you bindmount a few nasty bits (like .Xauthority .ICEauthority, iirc)
<Amaranth> eep the janitor is back?
<geser> huats: or use piuparts for install/upgrade/removal testing
<huats> geser: let me check what is piuparts....
<pkern> Amaranth: Nightmares are sticky.
<huats> since by instance testing a php application like gallery is not really easy in chroot/pbuilder
<ScottK> Amaranth: It was "by accident"
<Fujitsu> ScottK: For the second or third time.
<ScottK> Yep.
<huats> geser: piuparts seems nice for testing the .deb indeed...
 * Hobbsee does the no evil revu'ing dance.
<amachu> bluekuja: i built but since am in a new pc, couldn't sign it
<amachu> brb
<huats> geser: have you use it for hardy yet ?
<huats> ScottK: what did you told me about the deboostrap for hardy ? is it the same than for gutsy or not ?
<bluekuja> amachu, sorry? check my comment please :)
<huats> I know you already answered that... sorrry
<geser> huats: no, using piuparts at all is still on my TODO list
<huats> geser: ok
<huats> geser: because it needs a deboostrap script for hardy...
<ScottK> huats: Take your gutsy pbuilder and use --login --save-changes (I think - check the man page) and while in the pbuilder change gusty/hardy in sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, exit and you have a Hardy pbuilder.
<huats> rrrggg
<huats> ScottK: yep
<huats> exactly
<huats> thanks (again...)
 * ScottK randomly notes that the channel is logged and old answers can be found ...
 * huats hides away....
<lucas> soren: do you want me to upload ubuntu-dev-tools with the patch and send you the patch?
<huats> geser:  just as a note, I just did what ScottK told me... (upgrade of my pbuilder to hardy) and I've noticed that the debootstrap of gutsy and hardy are the same...
<huats> so when you need it to use piuparts just copy it...
<StevenHarperUK> Persia
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Im trying to find out whats wrong with my menu entry
<StevenHarperUK> persia: you mention it's wrong, but I can't find what it is thats wrong...
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: coNP[uni] knows about such stuff too.
<StevenHarperUK> He just commented on REVU, so I thought it might still be fresh in his mind : ill carry on trying to work it out
<coNP[uni]> Hey ScottK, StevenHarperUK
<StevenHarperUK> Hi
<StevenHarperUK> I think I have sussed it, thanks for the response anyway
<StevenHarperUK> I do have a Python Packaging Question: I have placed my PY's in /usr/lib/easycrypt  my architecture is all, where should they be?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: !!!!!
<Hobbsee> Kmos: what did i tell you, half an hour ago?
<Hobbsee> might have been longer.
<Hobbsee> it was under an hour ago.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: what have my sync requests wrong ?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: if there are ubuntu changes in the package, you have to go and explain why they arent needed.  We covered this *an* *hour* *ago*.
<Hobbsee> the information has *not* changed.
<pkern> Hobbsee: Patience or silence. :-P
<pkern> Hobbsee: The Ubuntean credo.
<Hobbsee> pkern: this guy doesnt get patience.  but he might get all of his bugs in the sponsors queue marked as wontfix, due to this type of stuff.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: you're talking about what package? i've requested two
<Hobbsee> Kmos: stunnel4, i havent seen the other yet.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: not all =)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: i havent marked them all as wontfix *yet*.  i may still, if the ratio of good bugs to bad bugs is very low.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: the stunnel has the reason why sync it.. since my change last time, he got a maintainer
<Hobbsee> and you need to say that in the bug.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: and i said
<Kmos> check the first line
<pkern> Hah.
<Hobbsee> hm, that one looks OK
<Kmos> "This package is no more orphan, it can be synced again."
<ScottK> We don't not sync packages just for being orphaned.
<Hobbsee> that doesnt mean that your changes, whatever they are, are not needed.
<Kmos> the another one is ipkungfu
<Hobbsee> yes, that one actually looks OK
<Kmos> ok :)
 * Hobbsee takes that off the sponsorship queue.
<Kmos> thanks
<amachu> bluekuja: u-u-s?
<bluekuja> amachu, ubuntu universe sponsors
<rexbron> siretart: Is there a way to change which gpg key revu uses for password recovery?
<geser> Kmos: what has a new maintainer to do with the Ubuntu changes?
<Kmos> geser: Last change was done by myself on ubuntu because the package was orphaned.. now it has a maintainer and new versions.. so it can be synced again
<geser> and the changes you did? are they needed anymore? you didn't just change the maintainer
 * Hobbsee removes all the sharp objects from around geser
 * ScottK gets popcorn
 * Hobbsee removes all the solid objects from around geser too
<Kmos> geser: i've added only conflits and onother one i don't remember to debian/control
<zul> *sigh*
 * ScottK gets a bigger bowl of popcorn.
<Kmos> geser: http://patches.ubuntu.com/s/stunnel4/stunnel4_3:4.20-2ubuntu1.patch
<Kmos> it's here
<Hobbsee> ScottK: popcorn?  give me a big bottle of alcohol.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and why can they be dropped?
<geser> Hobbsee: I don't believe the sharp or solid objects are safer in your hands :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and why did you not think it necessary to say it in the bug report?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Popcorn is a usual snack when watching a show here in the US.
<jpatrick> can someone revu supercat? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=411
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, but i think i need something stronger, reading this.
<Hobbsee> *much* stronger.
<Hobbsee> geser: haha.
<Hobbsee> geser: yeah, good point that.
<Hobbsee> i'll lend them to zul
<ScottK> Oh, like that's safe.
<zul> hey!
<Hobbsee> ScottK: he's far enough away, he says he'll only gouge out his own eyes.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i'll update it
<Hobbsee> Kmos: why did you not do this *before* you subscribed the sponsor team?
<Hobbsee> why not get it right teh first time, instead of being yelled at every time
 * Hobbsee ponders MOTU-bingo
<Kmos> Hobbsee: it's on the last changelog, i think i don't need to do it..
<Kmos> now, i know
<geser> jpatrick: you don't need to build-depend on packages which are build-essential (like libc6-dev) unless you need a specific version
<Hobbsee> Kmos: yes, you do.  you have to do so explicitly, precisely because people like yourself *kept getting it wrong*.
 * Hobbsee is *sure* you've heard this before.
<ScottK> Kmos: It's written down in the procedure for syncs that it's needed.  Did you not read that or did you think you knew better than the documentation?
<jpatrick> geser: it doesn't build otherwise
<jpatrick> geser: it just needs the C header files to compile
<jpatrick> nothing else :)
<HE> jpatrick: libc6-dev is installed everywhere where Debian/Ubuntu packages are built
<zul> Kmos: you need to provide enough information so that the person who is uploading can make the right decision, aggravating someone is not the right way to go
<HE> jpatrick: You don't need to list it explicitly
<HE> jpatrick: Also, there are architectures which don't have libc6 (but something libc6.1-dev, which provides the same functionality in almost every detail)
<gpocentek> somebody has an experience with buildds and versioned Build-Conflicts?
<Kmos> zul: yeap.. but i think MOTU will read the last changelog.. and it's there.. they don't trust what people right on comment or description.. i think
<gpocentek> pbuilder fails, I don't know if the buildd will fail too
<HE> gpocentek: Be more verbose
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: what in particular?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: dude, you want to provide all the information that's needed, so that the MOTU find it as easy as possible to deal with your bugs.
<zul> Kmos: sometimes but due dilligence has to be done and providing a summary is sometimes best in the bug report
<gpocentek> Hobbsee: lilypond depends on gs-gpl >= whatever and build-conflicts with gs-gpl < whatever
<zul> Hobbsee: copy cat
<Hobbsee> Kmos: of course, if you want to piss them off, keep doing what you're doing, adn we'll mark them all as wontfix.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: When's then next CC meeting?
<gpocentek> pbuilder doesn't like it, but I don't know about the buildd
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no idea, but email this log (when it finishes) to dholbach please.
<HE> gpocentek: That's not a problem (and I don't see why pbuilder should fail there)
<jpatrick> HE: okay, it does work without it :) fixed
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Will do.
<gpocentek> HE: well, it fails
<Kmos> Hobbsee: to ban me..lol
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: what you might think about doing there is either setting up sbuild too, or (the preferred option, i suspect), throw it at your ppa, and see if it builds.
<HE> gpocentek: Do you have a log somewhere? Because pbuilder shouldn't have an old gs-gpl installed anyway
<geser> jpatrick: your debian/copyright is wrong, supercat is GPLv3 licensed
<Hobbsee> Kmos: that depends on whether you're actually helping.
<gpocentek> HE: it's just the dependency resolver which fails
<gpocentek> the packages installation is OK
<Kmos> Hobbsee: that's your point of view
<jpatrick> geser: fixed
<gpocentek> I could try with the pbuilders satisfy-depends, not the gdebi one...
<HE> gpocentek: Ah. sbuild will manage, sbuild's dep resolver has nothing to do with the ones available in pbuilder
<Hobbsee> Kmos: if you're regularly pissing off the MOTU, the people who have to sponsor your bugs, and pissing off debian, are you *really* helping?
<Hobbsee> even with the few bugs that you manage to get right?
<gpocentek> HE: if you say so :)
<HE> Hobbsee: Hey, no reason to flame around here, that's helping noone...
<HE> gpocentek: I've hacked on both, so yes, I do know :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: next CC meeting will be after UDS and allhands, i expect
<ScottK> OK.
<gpocentek> HE: ok, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> HE: not flaming. just stating the truth.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: and i say again.. that's your point of view, I don't see if like "piss off"..
<Kmos> *it
<Kmos> ScottK: but please, mail dholbach the log =)
<HE> Hobbsee: Well, the truth is that pissing off Debian should be punished by death trough apt ABI bumps, but still...
<ScottK> Kmos: I will.
<Kmos> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> Kmos: I don't think it's going to get the reaction you think it's going to get.
<Hobbsee> HE: :)
<ScottK> Kmos: Remember when I got REALLY upset with you in #ubuntu-bugs and said I thought you should be kicked off the project?
<Kmos> ScottK: yes? and..
<ScottK> Kmos: Nothing that's happened since has convinced me I was wrong, just that I worded it inappropriately.
<Kmos> ScottK: you shouldn't merge motu with bugs team
<Hobbsee> ...
<ScottK> Kmos: I'm talking about Ubuntu as a whole
<Hobbsee> motu deals with bugs.
<Hobbsee> it's kinda hard to not merge them.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: but aren't the same team
<Hobbsee> the place of the discussion is irrelevant.
<Kmos> or even with launchpad
<jpatrick> ajmitch: could you please add me as a reviewer on revu? thanks
<Hobbsee> one is part of the other.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: like when you asked kiko to close my account
<Hobbsee> Kmos: i did not.  please do not make things up.
<jpatrick> (we have logs)
<Hobbsee> i asked *how* one goes about getting an account closed, from a person abusing launchpad.
<zul> la deh dah..
<Kmos> Hobbsee: that's the same thing.. that points to me that time
<Hobbsee> which is actually very different.
 * Hobbsee wishes there was an /ignore Kmos function in launchpad
<Kmos> that day if you have "admin" power at LP you've closed it
<zul> ok enough..
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i like to have it too.. but not for me.
<Kmos> zul: done from here :)
<Hobbsee> yay.  then be productive.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: I try =)
<RainCT> hi
<ScottK> Kmos: The trying is irrelevant.  It's the doing.
<Lamego> hi
<Kmos> Hobbsee: Can you check again the bug 157095
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157095 in stunnel4 "Please sync stunnel4 3:4.20-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157095
<Kmos> Lamego: hi
<Hobbsee> Kmos: if it's wrong, i'm going to makr it as wontfix.  are you sure that it's right?
<Lamego> Kmos, :)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: yes
<Hobbsee> before you waste more time.
<Hobbsee> good.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jpatrick> ok...
 * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Lutin> hrm
<geser> Kmos: I still don't get it, why an new maintainer makes the changes to Conflict/Replaces obselete?
<jpatrick> that's something you don't see everyday
<Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<soren> wtf..
<bluekuja> :D
 * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
<RainCT> wtf?
<geser> Hobbsee: your ! got stuck
<Kmos> geser: because the package is back ? not orphanated
<jpatrick> geser: apart from that is the rest of the package okay?
<Kmos> geser: so we don't need another package to replaces it
<RainCT> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html <- is this the list of pending merges?
<geser> Kmos: crywrap is back?
<jpatrick> RainCT: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<Kmos> geser: no.. stunnel4
<Kmos> crywrap was to replaces stunnel4
<Kmos> because stunnel4 was orphan that time
<Kmos> when i made the fix
<geser> Kmos: please read up what conflicts and replaces means
<Lutin> RainCT: this is the list of 'manual' merges
<RainCT> jpatrick: danke :)
<ScottK> Kmos: It wasn't because it was orphaned.  It was because it replaces it.
<RainCT> ah, and what's the difference?
<Hobbsee> yeah, so it seemed.
<Hobbsee> whoops :)
<Lutin> RainCT: 'manual' merges are mostly packages that are both in debian and ubuntu but have no common base version
<Hobbsee> Kmos: what was the point of putting in the conflicts to start with?
<Hobbsee> RainCT: not all of them are manual merges
<Hobbsee> other way around.
<StevenHarperUK> Hi again: I have been fixing stuff mentioned by MOTU's in the last set of comments for my Package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=41 : could someone (a MOTU) check it, im looking for Advocates (I have none so far)
<Hobbsee> geser: he said he had before.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: that time, you told me to do it, because it was orphan.. and because of people can upgrade from dapper to gutsy.. i think
<Hobbsee> back when we last discussed that.
<Hobbsee> RainCT: the ones mom could mostly resolve fine, vs the ones that it fell over on, basically
<RainCT> Lutin, Hobbsee: ah ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> Lutin: it seems to cope with most of them, though
<Hobbsee> not because it was orphaned.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: what's the point of a LTS release.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: which releases do we support upgrades between?
<Lutin> Hobbsee: oh, really ? thought that this kind of packages was automatically marked as manual
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mind saving these logs under which parts they cover, so that we can just dish Kmos a log every time he asks, rather than retyping the same stuff each time?
<Hobbsee> Lutin: no, dnot think so
<RainCT> Hobbsee: what's about the debdiff for ubuntu-restricted-extras btw? gonna check flash first?
 * santiago-ve is back.
<Hobbsee> RainCT: yeah, that's a decnet idea.  i think there's another section i wanted to look at, too
<Hobbsee> another open bug
<Lutin> Hobbsee: ok
<geser> StevenHarperUK: is the .la file needed in the -dev package? if not, please remove it, there is an ongoing effort to get rid of .la files
<Hobbsee> Lutin: ideally, the lenght of the manual queue would be 0
<Lutin> Hobbsee: well actually I'd rather put all the packages that have no common ancestor is -manual, because IMHO doing a debdiff between the debian and ubuntu packages is nonsense then
<Lutin> as they're often quite different
<Hobbsee> Lutin: all manual does is give you a massive diff
<Hobbsee> but having the report is useful, as you can see which bits have changed.
<Lutin> Hobbsee: yep. actually I meant putting them with 'regular' merges is a little bit awkward to me :). anyway, no big del
<Lutin> deal*
<StevenHarperUK> geser: where is the .la I can't see it
<geser> StevenHarperUK: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avant-window-navigator-0708230320/avant-window-navigator-0.1.2+bzr20070822/debian/libawn-dev.install
<geser> StevenHarperUK: there is no libawn.so which is usually inside the -dev package? (needed for linking)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Are you packaging avant-window-navigator?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there you go.  now you can send.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: no
<StevenHarperUK> geser: thats not mine
<ScottK> OK.  I was confused by geser's link.
<StevenHarperUK> geser: I'm packaging easycrypt
<StevenHarperUK> me too
<StevenHarperUK> I think I have done Everything that's been asked of me in REVU
<StevenHarperUK> I must admit im getting a bit frustrated with it.
<TurtleBeoulve> does anyone know where to get instructions on how to reduce the size of a vista partition in a dual boot configuration and give that space to the ubuntu filesystem
<Hobbsee> thsi is *not* #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> TurtleBeoulve: ^
<Hobbsee> apparently mistaking #ubuntu-motu for #ubuntu is an easy mistake.  or something.  *shakes head*
<Hobbsee> (he just got told to go to #ubuntu from -desktop)
<afflux> can we sync these changes from debian, if the debian package builds fine in a hardy pbuilder? Only real change is the build-dependency on debhelper being 5.0.37.2 in debian and 5.0.38 in the ubuntu package. http://dad.dunnewind.net/zeroinstall-injector/zeroinstall-injector_0.29-0ubuntu1.patch
<geser> afflux: I'd sync it
<afflux> geser, alright. I'll file a request then.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you want cc on the IRC log?
<geser> ScottK: did you trim Hobbsee's '!' ?
<ScottK> I did.  I trimmed the other conversations too.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I have the build log for scapy
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1328/
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that'd be nice
<LaserJock> Adri2000: ping
 * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
<Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
<coNP[uni]> Bye MOTUs, see you later
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Looks good.  I'd say you can request a sync as long as you verified that the Ubuntu change is in fact present in the source from Debian.
<LaserJock> Adri2000: heah, I just left a comment on that pbuilder-dist bug
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sent.
<RainCT> Hobbsee: the problem with debdiff was that interdiff wasn't installed      (not sure if you received this before, IRC disconnected -.-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks for your comment on the pbuilder-dist bug.
<Hobbsee> RainCT: i didn't
<Hobbsee> RainCT: oh, for u-r-e?  right
<blueyed> crimsun: you haven't approved the nomination for bug 149641?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
<RainCT> Hobbsee: yeh
<LaserJock> ScottK: I don't know that I fully know what the  problem is, but I know my scripts worked
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I will check again, but it seems that the patch that fix the bug in the scapy tracker is included in the new version patch
<ScottK> LaserJock: Agreed.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: so I will open a sycn request
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Sounds good then.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Ping me with the bug # when you're done.
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: ok ;)
<norsetto_> Rospo_Zoppo: do you know requestsync?
<pkern> Hobbsee: I don't think that flooding the channel is an option.
<Hobbsee> pkern: call it mass frustration at someone not listening, or not employing any level of basic thought.
<Hobbsee> but i didnt know it was quite that long :)
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto_: I've already done two of them :)
<norsetto_> rospo_the_syncer
<Rospo_Zoppo> lol
<pkern> LongPointyStick: I already told you patience or silence.
<pkern> LongPointyStick: You are not forced to answer, and even if it involves one of your hats it could be handled by someone else.
<ScottK> pkern: You haven't been here for the scale of trouble that guy causes.  This is the tail end of months of trouble.
<ScottK> pkern: I don't think anyone really has patience for him.
<pkern> ScottK: I know.  Now probably she doesn't want to miss the fun so she doesn't use /ignore.
<pkern> ScottK: Then silence is the other option.
<pkern> ScottK: (Or ban but well... Ignorance is bliss.)
<ScottK> Well /ignore doesn't work because then he gives other people bad advice that we get stuck with the results of.
<pkern> Ok, then /ban if he taints others.
<ScottK> Well that's where we are now.  AFAIK, he may be the first person kicked out of Ubuntu.
<pkern> i.e. disrupts the development process
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> He's already had about 1742 more chances (roughly) that I would have given.
<LaserJock> who is this?
<ScottK> Kmos
<LaserJock> ah
<pkern> ubotu: kmos
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kmos - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: please can you have a look at the changes? here is the old ubuntu patch http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1331/ and this is the part of the new upstream patch regarding that fix http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1330/
<ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Looking
<Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: thanks
<bluekuja> norsetto_, it seems he agreed about the new nickname
 * santiago-ve is back.
<RainCT> about bug 157129, it's now the 3th time (iirc) that there's a merge because of dh_iconcache only, should I file a bug about this on Debian?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157129 in blobwars "Please merge blobwars 1.07-2 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157129
<norsetto_> bluekuja: now I'm worried ....
<bluekuja> lol
<ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: That covers it.
<rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: thank you, I wasn't sure at all
<rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: now I open the sync request
<slangasek> RainCT: um, isn't dh_iconcache the deprecated name?
<slangasek> Warning: Please use dh_icons instead. dh_iconcache is going to go away.
<slangasek> RainCT: ^^ so that's not a Debian bug, unless you mean that the Debian package isn't using dh_icons either
<RainCT> it isn't
 * slangasek checks
<RainCT> slangasek: so should I change it to dh_icons on the debdiff, and report to Debian?
<slangasek> RainCT: ok; then sure, why not file a bug? should be a simple bug to both file and fix :)
<geser> pkern: if you are interested http://tinyurl.com/2mcevo (of around 250 reported bugs)
<dfiloni> Any REVU admin can sync the keys?
 * norsetto_ wonders when dh_iconcache will be finally nuked, and how many packages this will break
<blueyed> Can somebody pretty please approve the nomination for gutsy SRU on bug 149641? Without the Gutsy task it does not appear in ubuntu-sru's list and the noise (users complaining) won't get less when waiting longer. The fix is quite simple and taken from upstream/Debian.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
<blueyed> It would be great if someone even would sponsor the upload right away.. :)
<rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: the bug number is 157148
<blueyed> Should I ask in ubuntu-devel, because it's a bug in "main"?
<siretart> dfiloni: let me check
<siretart> dfiloni: syncing now
<dfiloni> thanks
<zul> blueyed: yes but i think most people are packing right now for uds
<oly-> hi, i am creating a package for my application, hopefully to get it into hardy, part of the package uses 3 icon packs, is it okay to include them as tar.gz files inside the deb ?
<oly-> and do i just add there licenses to the copyright file ?
<ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: Looking
<rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: I've done the build with a hardy pbuilder
<ScottK> Good.
<oly-> does anyone know where i might find this kind of information,
<ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: Ack'ed to the archive.  Thank you for looking into this.  Please see how I've marked the package at http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php.  You should both do that and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (I've already sponsored it, so no need this time).
<rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: I see, thank you
<rospo_the_syncer> bye all
<pkern> geser: !missing-feature negative karma
<man-di> bluekuja: thanks for the patch for libapache-mod-jk, will do an upload to sid later today
<pkern> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-voice-control/0.2-0ubuntu4 <-- What the heck.
<pkern> Oh well.  Only 1.10 available.
<pkern> nm
<bluekuja> man-di, you rock ;)
<man-di> bluekuja: I just like bug reports with patches ;-)
<bluekuja> man-di, lol, same here
<bluekuja> :)
<Kmos> can someone look at bug 157160 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157160 in ddclient "Please merge ddclient 3.7.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157160
<Kmos> if the debdiff is ok ?
<imbrandon> pkern, ScottK : ping
<imbrandon> yall round ?
<RainCT> Kmos: shouldn't the changelog be against Debian's package?
<RainCT> *changelog = debdiff
<Kmos> RainCT: ups.. made mistake
<Kmos> RainCT: thanks
<RainCT> Kmos: np
<Kmos> new debdiff uploaded
<pkern> imbrandon: Yes.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Pong
<imbrandon> ScottK,  one sec
 * ScottK refills his coffee.  brb
<ScottK> Back
<imbrandon> ScottK,  got soem time at 2100 to help field some MOTU Q & A questions , it will probably be a busy session and i could use some more experinced MOTU's
<imbrandon> some*
<ScottK> imbrandon: Sorry, no.
<imbrandon> ok no worries, thought i would ask
 * imbrandon preps his pastebin for the patching session , bbiab
<LeRoutier> Hello
<LeRoutier> Who should I ask for package removal (for Hardy) ?
<imbrandon> Scottk pkern, oh wow, my bad anyhow the session isnt untill tomarrow, i was totaly looking at my computer date wrong
<zul> w
<zul> oops..
<imbrandon> LeRoutier, file a bug with a valid reason
<LeRoutier> ok, I'll do that. Against which product ? Ubuntu ?
<imbrandon> against the source package iirc
<LeRoutier> well, it is orphaned
<ScottK> Yes, and?
<LeRoutier> I'll be maintaining swfdec, but only 0.5 branch.  0.3 doesn't install actually on Ubuntu Gutsy AMD64 and both 0.3 & 0.4 are far outdated
<imbrandon> just because its orphaned in debian dosent qualify for removal , someone may pick it up , now the other reasons you state maybe valid
<LeRoutier> imbrandon, 0.3 & 0.4 have no reason to live
<LeRoutier> 0.5 was the first to release decode interesting flash content
<LeRoutier> release => really
<ScottK> Do they have any reverse dependencies?
<LeRoutier> gst-plugin-swfdec-0.8 for 0.3
<LeRoutier> none that I know for 0.4
<LeRoutier> and gstreamer 0.8 is old crap too
<LeRoutier> looks like gst-plugin-swfdec-0.8 is not even in Gutsy
<LeRoutier> so, both of them are totally unused
<ScottK> OK.  Then file a removal bug for them.  There is a discussion on the wiki of what's needed (don't ask me where, it was just reorganized).
<LeRoutier> ok, doing so
<LeRoutier> thanks
<man-di> bluekuja: have you tested the libapache-mod-jk patch? I ask becuase mod_jk says: "These workers should not appear in the worker.list property!" and thats the case then.
<pwnguin> its too bad all of today's openweek topics dont interest me =/
<LeRoutier> bugs #157204 and bug #157202 filled : request for removal
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157204 in swfdec0.4 "swfdec0.4 should be removed from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157204
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157202 in swfdec0.3 "swfdec0.3 should be removed from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157202
<LeRoutier> Should requests for sponsored upload be filed as a bug too or asked here ?
<idiot> where do i go to ask for an update to the repository for a particular package?
<norsetto> idiot: you mean you want that we update a package which is in our repositories?
<idiot> yeah, imagemagick is kind of old...would be nice to have it be the newest...
<idiot> not me personally
<norsetto> !info imagemagick
<ubotu> imagemagick: Image manipulation programs. In component main, is optional. Version 7:6.2.4.5.dfsg1-2ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 722 kB, installed size 3156 kB
<idiot> 6.2.4 is kind of old, newest is 6.3.6
<norsetto> idiot: thats the version we have now
<idiot> yeah, i know...
<pwnguin> 6.2.4 was in etch
<norsetto> idot: which is what they have in debian at the moment
<pwnguin> (and sarge backports)
<norsetto> idiot: so, your only chance is to file a bug report in debian/ubuntu asking for an upgrade
<pwnguin> idiot: file a bug. it'll get marked wishlist, but at least someone looking for an example "new version upstream" might find it
<idiot> how do packages get updated normally?  someone files a bug report for each update?
<slangasek> hopefully whoever looks at it takes into consideration that imagemagick has poor library ABI handling
<LeRoutier> No MOTU to upload one of my packages to Gutsy updates ?
<pwnguin> idiot: debian packages often have a watch file. the Debian maintainer (each package has one) can use this to drop in new source and push out to unstable. ubuntu sort of forks unstable every release, so most packges get updated without much effort from ubuntu
<LeRoutier> Package already in my PPA
<norsetto> LeRoutier: you should follow the SRU process
<norsetto> LeRoutier: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<LeRoutier> k, thanks, reading it now
<idiot> where should i file this bug report?
<norsetto> idiot: https://launchpad.net
<cbx33> hey hey peeps
<cbx33> long time eh?
<norsetto> idiot: and email to the debian bts
<idiot> yeah, i'm lookin at the bug reports, someones already asked for an update to 6.3.5
<norsetto> idiot: for the latter, info here: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<norsetto> idiot: bug number?
<idiot> 110178
<norsetto> bug 110178
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110178 in imagemagick "MASTER: Please update imagemagick to 6.3.5 version" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110178
<idiot> well, think that pretty much settles it...
<norsetto> well, there is also a bug in debian, so, nothing more to be done for you
<idiot> yeah, not big pain for me to download source, compile and install, just thought i would be helpful and suggest adding it to the repository
<norsetto> idiot: sure, thx for asking
<norsetto> yippie, I have an hardy lpia chroot
 * norsetto wonders what is there to be happy about
<oly-> any one around that could help me with some questions, about getting my program ready to go into one of the ubuntu repositories
<ajmitch> morning
 * ajmitch sees there was some excitement here overnight
<jpatrick> even ajmitch
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<RainCT> good night
<norsetto> ajmitch: nowadays seems to be the norm
<norsetto> ajmitch: sorry, nowanights seems to be the norm
<ajmitch> such a happy, smiling place
<jpatrick> ajmitch: I asked earlier if I could be added as a reviewer on revu, don't know if you got it :)
<oly-> is my best bet to upload my package to REVU to get comments, rather than ask questions here ?
<lamego> oly-, if you really initiating, save yourself from REVU :P
<lamego> it is not as interactive as asking here
<LeRoutier> SRU Bug #157211 and bug #157212 filled
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157211 in swfdec0.5 "SRU - Update from 0.5.1 to 0.5.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157211
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157212 in swfdec-mozilla "SRU - Update from 0.5.1 to 0.5.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157212
<oly-> okay, its my first package but i have questions about licensing in particular,
<oly-> all the code is under gnu license, is my best bet to upload my package to REVU to get comments, rather than ask questions here ? which are icon packs under other licensesbut i have 3 tar files in the package
<oly-> all the code is under gnu license, but i have 3 tar files which are icon packs under other licenses
<oly-> sorry must have hit up arrow on last post :p
<oly-> do i list all the licenses in the COPYING file
<lamego> debian/copyright
<ajmitch> jpatrick: have you passed all the requisite tests?
<lamego> you are not expected to change COPYING
<jpatrick> ajmitch: are those GPG + MOTU, then yes
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch, yea lots of !!!!
<oly-> and should i include tar files in my package
<lamego> oly-, if they are required, and if they met an acceptable license, yes
<oly-> okay they are icon packs 2 under creative commons and the 3rd under gnu license
<oly-> lamego, your right with the file i meant copyright file
<oly-> do i just list the licenses that the tar files use then, and the license the code uses
<ajmitch> jpatrick: I don't see the right amount of funds in my bank though
<jpatrick> lol
<ajmitch> I presume it's your ubuntu.com address?
<jpatrick> it's @kubuntu.org
<ajmitch> ok, so at least a password is set there
<ajmitch> ok, done
<jpatrick> thanks
<ajmitch> go wild & review
<jpatrick> I'm on it
<ajmitch> yay, minions!
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin, why dosen cymor want to use 7.04 ?
<pwnguin> i have no fucking clue
 * imbrandon rolls eyes *
<ajmitch> ?
<pwnguin> maybe point out a bug thats in feisty but not gutsy
<pwnguin> such as, dm-crypt
<ajmitch> if someone doesn't want to update to gutsy, that's their choice
<pwnguin> context: kclug wants to hand out linux. cymor wants to hand out 7.04 because 7.10 is too new
<imbrandon> ajmitch, its a member of our lug burning cd's to hand out at a conf in a few days
<ajmitch> then that's another matter, and he needs to be hurt
<ajmitch> gently
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> now I know that gutsy isn't the most solid release we've had, but it's not completely bugridden
<imbrandon> well that thinking it should be either 6.06 or 7.10, if 7.10 is tooo new
<imbrandon> imho
<pwnguin> ive already said as much
<ajmitch> I wouldn't hand out 6.06 on cd
<ScottK> NTFS support by default is very useful.  I've used Gutsy Live CDs more than once with Klamav/Clamav for scanning Windows PCs
<pwnguin> anyways, it would help if you would hold this conversation in the place where the people who need to hear your opinion are
<ajmitch> I'd use 6.06.2 when it's out, for certain systems
<lamego> I had the idea ClamAV only scanned, does it clean also ?
<ajmitch> hm, almost time to troll & heckle nixternal?
<ScottK> Klamav does.  I'm not sure of the exact functional allocation between Klamav and Clamav
<nixternal> Tonio is doing it today
<ajmitch> aw
 * ajmitch didn't even take the opportunity to troll the other day :(
<lamego> ScottK, are you sure ? KDE seems to be a KDE frontend for ClamAV
<LeRoutier> isn't KDE a virus ?
 * LeRoutier runs
<ScottK> Klamav is a KDE frontend for Clamav.  I'm sure that using Klamav, I expunged stuff.
 * ScottK makes notes about who gets no more help...
<lamego> and ClamAV does not clean, it is an advanced pattern finder, using a virus DB for the search
<imbrandon> imho Hardy is going to be the end all, its got tons on great stuff comming building on 7.10 pluss a LTS
<pwnguin> there hasnt even been a uds
<pwnguin> however
<pwnguin> nm .7 ftw
<pwnguin> oh, i guess you kubuntu guys are excited about kde4
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> yea
 * imbrandon is in gnome/fluxbox , i just use kde apps
<imbrandon> lol
<pwnguin> i thought you were a kubnutu dev
<imbrandon> yes i am, i'm just on a slow computer
<pwnguin> oh right hahaahhaaha
<ajmitch> nixternal: you're bad
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> hahahahahaha
 * norsetto goes to have a drink while mail-notification builds
<oly-> okay, i am seriously confused, i wanted to release my program as gnu, but it uses the python ssl library does this mean i can not ??
<oly-> gnu gpl i mean
<pwnguin> you can explicitly make an exception
<pwnguin> it won't be strictly GNU GPL
<oly-> okay, but whats that mean i need todo ?
<oly-> do i include the gnu license, or do i use a modified version ?
<oly-> or do i put something in the copyright file saying about the exception
<pwnguin> maybe look at some other projects. anyone know of a project with an ssl exception?
<oly-> yeah that would be helpful
<oly-> a python one in particular would be useful
<pwnguin> maybe post to the mailling list, or wait for the openweek sessions to finish up for today
<oly-> okay, will do can hang around for a while anyway
<oly-> its all quite confusing but thxs for helping, at least i know i can still use same license still just need to figure out how to make the exception
<imbrandon> hrm i wish docfs and picasafs were public
<ajmitch> why is that?
<Nafallo> docfs?
<imbrandon> docfs fuse fs for docs.google.com
<imbrandon> and picasiawebfs same for picasa web
<imbrandon> both made for google apps , by google and demo'd when they released fuse for Mac but not released , only macfuse was
<norsetto> heya persia, how is it?
<persia> Hi norsetto.  Well here, but early.  For you?
<norsetto> persia: well too, but late ;-)
<persia> :)
<lamego> who was playing with azureus and iced tea one of this days ?
<persia> lamego: jdong
<lamego> do you remember the results ? was it stable ?
<jdong> lamego: stable on all but amd64, bug filed about icedtea/amd64 already
<lamego> jdong, thanks
<jdong> sure thing
<norsetto> bye all
<khatahn> what has happened to xmms-flac package? it was in feisty, but it isn't in gutsy anymore.
<Amaranth> do we still have xmms?
<khatahn> luckily yes :)
<Amaranth> I wonder why, no one else does
<Amaranth> iirc xmms-flac was built from some flac library and debian was disabling that so they could remove xmms
<khatahn> i still haven't found a better player. xmms does all that i need, and is very lightweight.
<khatahn> oh
<Amaranth> this is just what i remember from a mailing list and/or bug report probably 9 months ago
<TheMuso> Well there is the fact that xmms uses a legacy GUI toolkit library.
<TheMuso> i.e gtk 1.2
<Amaranth> TheMuso: And is completely abandoned
<TheMuso> Amaranth: Aye.
<Amaranth> and was removed from _slackware_ in march
<Amaranth> gentoo dropped it a year ago
<khatahn> and it still beats all the other players
<Amaranth> rhythmbox ftw ;)
<TheMuso> mpd FTW. :p
<khatahn> i don't like the music library style players, winamps style is the only one that works for me
<khatahn> i guess i should go to audacity, but it's usually horribly out of date in ubuntu
<TheMuso> Well, each to their own, but afaik there are others like xmms2, or beep media player.
<slangasek> wait, you'll use xmms which is a gtk1.2 player, but you don't want to use audacity because it's "horribly out of date"? :)
<khatahn> i think beep (or bmpx nowadays) has gone the music library way too
<khatahn> slangasek: yes, because i can have the latest version of xmms, but not the latest (or even fairly current) version of audacity =)
<khatahn> i think that makes perfect sense ;)
<TheMuso> Audacity is an editor.
<khatahn> err.. audacious
<slangasek> makes no sense at all to me
<nxvl> when i build apache with pbuilder it generates many .deb's, is there any way i can only generate apache-common for example?
<TheMuso> nxvl: no.
<khatahn> slangasek: well, audacious is probably also heavier than xmms, like all the other recent players. and my machine is ancient.
<pwnguin> well, you migth be able to edit the rules file to not build them, but pbuilder alone won't cut it
<nxvl> TheMuso: mm, ok
<TheMuso> Anyway, I'dbetter get offline and finish getting ready.
<ajmitch> bye TheMuso :)
<ajmitch> have fun
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-26
<pwnguin> hurray.
 * pwnguin just switched from ipw to iwl
<bddebian> Heya gang
<s1024kb> very happy to be here... this is my first time.
<s1024kb> Thank you my Mentor.
<bddebian> pkern: Are you around?
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> anyone seen jcastro ?
<ajmitch> not today
<ajmitch> what's he done now?
<imbrandon> nadda was just gonna ask him bout somethin
<nxvl> wich package has the binary shares-admin?
<nxvl> nevermind i just find it
<persia> nxvl: Try `apt-file search shares-admin`.  You may need to precede this with `sudo apt-file update`, or possibly even with `sudo aptitude install apt-file`
<bddebian> gnome-system-tools
 * persia thinks that nxvl has been hit by no-longer-necessary fish and fishing rods :)
<nxvl> i used packages.ubuntu.com
<nxvl> :D
<imbrandon> packages.u.c is grossly out of date most of the time
<persia> imbrandon: For the development distribution, or for everything?
<imbrandon> normaly the dev distro
<nxvl> imbrandon: i'm parching a gutsy bug
<nxvl> patching*
<persia> imbrandon: Do you happen to know how often refreshes Contents.gz?
<persia> s/en re/en it re/
<imbrandon> no ideas, i know at most daily, probbably less
<imbrandon> when i complained about it, they said "just use launchpad" /me forgets who "they" are atm
<persia> nxvl: It's not as important yet, but as hardy develops, it will become increasingly important that you also check against hardy, as otherwise your fixes may not be suitable for the current development release, and may not be able to be applied to the current distributed release as the issue remains in the development release.
<persia> imbrandon: Does LP even have an interface for searching Contents.gz?
<imbrandon> i dont think so, this was wabout searching packages themselfs
<persia> Ah...
<nxvl> persia: it's kind of important error
<nxvl> persia: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/157174
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157174 in gnome-system-tools ""browsable" instead of "browseable" in smb.conf " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nxvl> persia: it makes that shares-admin don't work
<bmk789> where do i submit a package that isnt in the repos yet?
<persia> nxvl: Sure.  I don't mean to say it shouldn't be fixed in gutsy, only that the policy requires that fixes to gutsy must first be fixed in hardy, so it's good practice to check against hardy when fixing a bug.
<nxvl> persia: oh! ok, ok
<persia> bmk789: REVU is the typical method, although Debian also works at this point.  Some guidelines are available in the Preparing New Packages section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<bmk789> persia: ill check it out thanks
<nxvl> how do i change the importance of a bug report? do i can?
<persia> nxvl: You'll need to be a member of the QA Team.  If you're not currently a member, try working with the BugSquad for a while (#ubuntu-bugs is a good contact point), and once you can demonstrate good knowledge of the triage process, you'll be approved for the QA team.
<nxvl> persia: oh, ok, thnx
<nxvl> i enjoy more patching bugs than triagging them :P
<persia> nxvl: Personally, I tend to do both.  Find a bug that needs work.  If there's enough information for a fix, mark it triaged / in-progress, and fix it.  If there's not enough information, work with the submitter to get enough information, and then proceed from the previous condition.
<nxvl> persia: yes, i'm doing so too, but i enjoy more fixing bux than triaging them :D
<persia> nxvl: You won't lose any points with the BugSquad if you fix all the bugs you touch - you just have to demonstrate an understanding of the different "Importances".
<vileda> where is the difference between "Recommends" and "Suggest" in a debain/control file?
<persia> vileda: "Recommends" is used when any sensible person would install the other package as well.  "Suggests" is used when the other package could be useful, but not everyone wants it.
<persia> vileda: More information is available from http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
<vileda> persia: thank you
<persia> Err.  Rather http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
<bmk789> is a .deb the same format as a .tar or .tar.gz?
<persia> bmk789: No.  It's an ar file, with the contents organised in a specific manner.
<bmk789> ah thats what i needed to know, thanks
<bmk789> ok i extracted the contents of a deb, modified a configuration file so it would require the dependancy, and now i need to repackage it, how do i turn that folder of the package's files into a deb again?
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> how do dpatch really work, i don't find anything on packaging guide
<persia> bmk789: That's really not the preferred method of doing things :)  You probably want to read the dpkg documentation, which can help automate unpacking and packing, and may want to look at modifying the source package as an alternative.
<persia> nxvl: There's pretty good documentation in /usr/share/doc/dpatch
<nxvl> thnx
<bmk789> this package is so different though, theres no debian folder, just a control.tar.gz, a data.tar.gz, and a debian-binary
<bddebian> Ugh, hideous
<persia> bmk789: You're looking at a binary package.  The source package would contain a layout that is more familiar.
<bmk789> ok i guess ill play with the source tarball and see if i can figure out how to work it
<nxvl> holy, i confirm that the bug was invalid :(
<nxvl> moving to next one
<TechnoViking> I'm trying to make a package for the liberation font, I was wondering how how to figure out the deforma hints for the package
<persia> nxvl: See: you're triaging :)
<nxvl> persia: yes, and was kind of inscructive and fun :D
<nxvl> how does it work with merges, can i do any merge i want or there are some rules?
<persia> nxvl: There are guidelines.  Typically, merges are done by one of the people who typically works on the package.  This may be the last person who touched it, or it may be someone else listed in the changelog as having made an Ubuntu change.
<persia> nxvl: It's good manners to allow those parties to merge, as often there are other changes or adjustments the packages could use, and such work will be done together at the beginning of a cycle.
<persia> nxvl: For very trivial merges, this guideline is somewhat relaxed.
<persia> nxvl: Further, it's good practice to always open a bug when working on a merge, to notify package subscribers that the work is being done.  lpbugs.py is a great help for this.
 * persia rushes off
<ScottK> nxvl: You can also see status of a lot of merges on the dad site listed in /topic.  In some cases people will mark merges people are free to take over.
<bmk789> isnt there a tool that generates the rules file automagically?
<bddebian> For new packages, dh_make will do some of that for you
<nxvl> ScottK: how do they mark them?
<bmk789> bddebian: thank you
<ScottK> There's a comments field.
<bddebian> I thought as of Gutsy it was a merge free for all?
<ScottK> If they definitely want to keep them, they sometime say so, if they want someone else to take it, they say so.
<ScottK> bddebian: I think the agreement was it's nice to ask.
<ajmitch> of course, assuming that everyone uses the same tool
<ScottK> ajmitch: Of course, which they don't.
<ScottK> Which is why I don't ascribe any meaning to no information.
<bddebian> ScottK: Well that certainly wasn't what it felt like ;-)
<ScottK> bddebian: Understand.
<Jaearess> Is it possible for a non-MOTU to help with merging?
<persia> Jaearess: Sure, although there's lots else to do as well.
<bddebian> Hey, I thought you rushed off? :-)
<effie_jayx> the packaging 101 log is not right... does anyone have a log file from the repeat of dholback's talk?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<persia> The state of "rushing off" directly implies motion, and therefore a possible destination, often identical to the starting place in the modern world (although some time may pass in the interim)
<Jaearess> persia: Okay. What's a good way for a newbie to get involved with MOTU/packaging?
<persia> Jaearess: I tend to point at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, and suggest that one start with looking at bugs.  It's likely there is a package you use that either doesn't work, or doesn't do what you want.
<bddebian> persia: You are making my head hurt :-)
<persia> Making a patch for this is often fairly rewarding, and can be a good introduction to the processes and procedures for getting things done.
<persia> bddebian: My apologies.  I'll have to seek an alternate mind control ray provider.
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> heah, can somebody have a look at bug #124376
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124376 in atomix "package atomix-data 2.14.0-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124376
<LaserJock> how would you guys triage that?
<Jaearess> persia: Okay, thank you. I'll look into that. :)
<persia> LaserJock: I'd look at the postinst for an obvious issue, and otherwise ask the reporter to try installing again, as it may have been a transient issue.
<persia> Jaearess: If you have any questions, this channel is a good place to ask.  If you're having difficulty finding good bugs, the "patch" tag often indicates that there is a patch, which may only need a little attention, the "packaging" tag often means that the necessary work is fairly small, and restricted to the standard packaging files, and the "bitesize" tag indicates that someone thought it would be easy to fix.
<LaserJock> geeze, it's gonna take me a little bit to get used to typing hardy instead of gutsy
<bddebian> heh
<persia> Now to find the completion term.  If gutsy::hardy, then gusty::?
<LaserJock> persia: I have a hard time believing that that bug is real. atomix is in Main and is shipped with Edubuntu. If it's broken I would think we'd hear about it more
<LaserJock> I just install atomix in a hardy pbuilder and it was fine and the postinst looks pretty straightforward
<LaserJock> so should it be Incomplete or Invalid ?
<persia> LaserJock: I suspect that the reported ran into OOM, automatix, or a Ctrl-C, but tend to check the packages to keep my face relatively clear of egg.  If the reporter can confirm it cannot be reproduced in their environment, "Invalid" sounds good.  If the reporter can confirm, then something odd is happening, and ought to be trapped.
<persia> (and "Incomplete" whilst waiting for the response about reproduction)
<LaserJock> well, manchicken reported it, I doubt he'd be running automatix
<LaserJock> I suspect just something funky :-)
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock :)
<nxvl> when i suscribe a bug to ubuntu-universe-sponsors i need to change it to Confirmed, didn't i?
<persia> nxvl: There are guidelines on the appropriate bug status settings available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (which someone should hit with the pretty stick)
<nxvl> lucas: ping
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<tonyyarusso> postfix is preferred over sendmail, correct?
<ajmitch> anything is preferred over sendmail
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<tonyyarusso> heh, ok
<tonyyarusso> And is Dovecot the program of choice for POP/IMAP server?
<ion_> Itâs great.
<ion_> And its author seems to know what heâs doing security-wise.
<tonyyarusso> That's always nice
<LaserJock> ok, who wants to help me look at an apport-reported bug?
<LaserJock> Bug #117568
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117568 in xaos "[apport] xaos crashed with SIGSEGV in memset()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117568
<LaserJock> the stacktrace has only 4 lines and only one has any info
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of that
<Fujitsu> That null address and the short stack probably indicate stack corruption, in which case it's useless.
<coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs, good morning!
<persia> It may also be that no xaos-dbgsym is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/pool/universe/x/, making retraces stubborn.
<LaserJock> persia: hmm, why would there be no symbols?
<Fujitsu> Because it hasn't been rebuilt recently, most likely.
<LaserJock> ohhhh
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> our package is from like dapper
<Fujitsu> Ahh.
<persia> LaserJock: The most common reason is that it wasn't recompiled since the last reset, but in this case I think it is a case of unfortunate timing (dbgsym hiccup), as it was compiled just in July.
<persia> LaserJock: We have a new package for gutsy: 3.2.5ubuntu1 vs. 3.2.3ubuntu2 for feisty
<LaserJock> oh hmm
<LaserJock> maybe I was looking at another package that hadn't bumped versions since dapper
<LaserJock> in any case
<persia> LaserJock: Can you reproduce the crash?  If so, you can make your own -dbgsym with a recompile and pkg-create-dbgsym.
<LaserJock> what do you do with these apport bugs like this? they almost always seems like one-off crashes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Unless they're reproducible, Invalid them.
<persia> I usually ask the submitter to try again, and if they can reproduce, ask them to install -dbgsym & get a backtrace.  If they don't after a couple months, I let the bug die.
<persia> Fujitsu: There's heaps of bugs that are architecture- or configuration- dependent.  Just rejecting because you can't reproduce locally is a little firm.
<Fujitsu> persia: I meant the submitter reproducing.
<Fujitsu> Sorry, should have been more clear.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  My apologies.  I should have assumed.
<Fujitsu> Not really.
<LaserJock> hmm, submitters rarely respond :(
<Fujitsu> Has Janitor been accidentally turned on again yet, to help with our bug problem?
<persia> LaserJock: Sometimes they do.  Often I find it's another person reporting a duplicate that sends me the information, and I let them hijack the bug.
<LaserJock> it was accidently like a day or two ago
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: About 24 hours ago.
<LaserJock> yeah, that might be right
<LaserJock> I asked kiko about it
<Fujitsu> I still find it a bit hard to believe that this cron job magically restored itself.
<Fujitsu> Twice.
<LaserJock> I think they must've had an "accident" trying to rollout
 * persia imagines it runs in the development environment, and that the release process is still a little wonky
<Fujitsu> Did they end up restoring the status of the old lot yet? I didn't see any emails... or was that the point, that it would make more annoying changes silently?
<LaserJock> I believe they've reverted everything
 * persia thought they were supposed to be restored without bugmail notifications, but hasn't seen any automatically reverted bugs yet.
<Fujitsu> Grr.
<Fujitsu> So they're corrupting the only semi-complete history of bugs. Lovely.
<LaserJock> somehow it's always a little depressing to do Edubuntu bug triage
<persia> LaserJock: Why?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: WHy?
<LaserJock> because
<persia> ...
<LaserJock> nobody looks after the packages and they are in Main
<LaserJock> they'd probably get triaged better in Universe
<Fujitsu> Ah, lovely.
<persia> Is there a huge queue of sponsor requests waiting on the packages?  If not, I don't understand how main/universe matters.
 * Fujitsu looks at little outside universe/multiverse other than bugs without packages.
<Fujitsu> Or bugs that affect me :P
 * persia looks at the RC buglist & subscribed packages only
<LaserJock> persia: people triage Universe bugs, at least some
<persia> LaserJock: Perhaps Edubuntu needs more attention from BugSquad?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> it seems that I'm the only one that does anything
<persia> LaserJock: In that case, you definitely need a team.  Grab the next person who asks "How can I help" - reserved just for you :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What about the rest of the Edubuntu team?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: what team? ;-)
<LaserJock> Oliver handles LTSP bugs
<LaserJock> other than that, it's pretty much me
<LaserJock> and well, you know how active I'm not
<LaserJock> there's a decent number of bugs on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<LaserJock> ok, how about a bug where the report just reports general crashing
 * persia grumbles that users who can determine that I am the right person to contact about a package should be able to determine that launchpad is the right place to report bugs.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: ask for a backtrace.
<LaserJock> not just with the package he/she reported against
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: haha
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<persia> LaserJock: That's invalid.  The submitter has to tell us something...
<Fujitsu> persia: You'd think so, but I get contacted at least once a week.
<persia> Fujitsu: What do you think causes that.  Changelog entries?
<Fujitsu> I think so.
<LaserJock> how do they get changelog entries and not know about Launchpad?
<Fujitsu> Last Uploader on LP, perhaps.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: cat /usr/share/doc/blah/changelog.Debian.gz?
<persia> LaserJock: /usr/share/docs/foo/changelog.Debian.gz
<persia> Fujitsu: "Last Uploader" has the pretty "Bugs" button, with the nice "Report a Bug" button, so I'd be suspicious
<Fujitsu> persia: True, and it has even been missing for the past month, so probably isn't it.
<persia> I actually sort of liked "last uploader", because it made upstreams send me notes.
<LaserJock> well, yeah, but if you're looking around at changelog.Debian.gz I would think you would know better
 * Fujitsu looks for a couple more PPA bugs so he can take over the `Latest bugs reported' portlet.
<persia> LaserJock: poke nixternal & bluekuja.  They're around a lot, and members of your triage team :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It may mean they're from a Debian background, in which case the Changed-By is probably the maintainer, so best to email.
<persia> LaserJock: Users ought know better, but perhaps we're missing documentation in the right place.  In an attempt to make it easy, we may have missed those who don't expect it to be easy.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: perhaps, but I'd think they at least look at Maintainer
<LaserJock> well, it's not explicitly the wrong action
<LaserJock> but it doesn't seem like the best action
<persia> The problem is that Maintainer sends them to a moderated list, and they get a note that the email didn't go through, so they might be looking for an alternate solution.
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, that is true.
<LaserJock> yes, that is difficult
 * persia ponders a ubuntu-universe-maintainers mailing list that just feeds an archive bot with spam.
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> (someone should troll through it occasionally to pull out useful reports, but...)
<Fujitsu> And then there are the people who come to MOTU Media for help, because the team maintaining all universe packages is called motumedia...
<persia> Fujitsu: That's just requires someone to change the registered email address for "MOTU Media"
<LaserJock> bah, hasn't that been fixed yet?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Oh, the team merging code landed in 1.1.10.
<Fujitsu> But the person->team conversion code is a while off yet.
<Fujitsu> So it's still blocked.
<LaserJock> well, we could at least have some DB fudging
<Fujitsu> It hasn't happened yet, so I doubt it would happen now.
<persia> LaserJock: You could ask an Answer :)
<Fujitsu> persia: I love their chosen terminology.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock>  --with-pthread=yes      enables SMP support (experimental)
<LaserJock> does ^^ sound like a ok thing to enable?
<Fujitsu> Experimental? I doubt it.
<LaserJock> would it affect non-SMP kernels?
<Fujitsu> Yes, because it will probably start a bazillion threads anyway.
<persia> LaserJock: In general, SMP without thread support doesn't get much benefit from SMP.  That doesn't mean the developers wrote thread-safe code...
<Fujitsu> (all our kernels are SMP but -386, but the SMPness isn't what matters much)
<LaserJock> alright, well I guess I'll wishlist this
<LaserJock> seems like people are just trying to justify the shiny new procs they bought ;-)
<LaserJock> bah
 * LaserJock jumps through the "register a project so you can add a bug tracker" hoop
<persia> LaserJock: Don't forget to repeat the steps every six months :)
<LaserJock> what the heck
<LaserJock> I thought there was a link to do it from the bug tracker part
<persia> Not anymore.  That was removed.
<Fujitsu> I think the easy registration feature is coming soon, though it has been deferred a couple of times.
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> this evening is giving me plenty of things to talk to kiko about ;-)
<Fujitsu> Haha, bug #78911
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm not in a rush.  If the Janitor gets fixed, I'll be fairly happy for a bit.
<Fujitsu> Bug #127126
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127126 in malone "Register a product while adding an upstream task" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127126
<persia> What!  I *really** appreciate it when a user provides all the relevant log files and details when reporting a complex bug.
<Fujitsu> persia: Logs more than a few lines don't really fit in the description.
<persia> Fujitsu: Both the bugs that are getting complaints are just standard reportbug output.  It's all stuff I want to read.
<persia> (although grep -v '^(no debugging symbols found)$' would help.)
<persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  The limit will be 50K.  That seems reasonable.
<Fujitsu> persia: Those files are meant to be attached, and large parts don't want to be read by humans.
<Fujitsu> (and they are only from Edgy)
 * persia claims to be human
<Fujitsu> You like intepreting base64 coredumps?
<persia> Fujitsu: Not exactly, but I've certainly looked at a few, and gained enlightenment from some.
<LaserJock> it's his "light reading"
<Fujitsu> persia: You gained useful information by reading a base64 blob?
<persia> Fujitsu: Oh certainly.  Lots of times.  Usually it was meta-information to better understand the underlying content for spoofing purposes, but I've collected it from coredumps on rare occasions as well.
<persia> Anyway, aside from the "no debugging symbols found", what in the description of bug #78872 isn't interesting to someone trying to debug it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78872 in totem "Crash with wmv file" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78872
<Fujitsu> The coredump isn't human-readable, so humans probably shouldn't be subjected to it on every page view. I like the way the new apport does it.
<LaserJock> hmm, is it logical to mark something as WontFix if there's an upstream bug report and really no way we're going to do it in Ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
<Fujitsu> That's what it's for.
<LaserJock> yeah, just feels so mean
<persia> LaserJock: Will upstream fix it?  You might just leave it "triaged", with a note that upstream is doing it, but that won't help your bugstats.
<Fujitsu> We ideally need a list of Won't Fix bugs that are fixed upstream.
<persia> I think GNOME usually leaves them open until they're closed upstream (except for vague feature requests)
<LaserJock> persia: I looked at the upstream bug and they seemed at least concerned
<LaserJock> the bug is "xaos doesn't work with beryl/compiz"
<LaserJock> there's just no way we're going to do anything with that
<persia> LaserJock: I'd leave open then.  Most of the bugs I file against GTK start as an LP bug against a specific application, and are open until Ubuntu gets the fix.
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems sort of counter to the idea of WontFix
<Fujitsu> Yes..
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you use qcad at all?
<Fujitsu> The GNOME people aren't exactly the best users of statuses (think the use of Fix Committed)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: A few months ago I used it a bit, but not recently.
<persia> I thought "Won't Fix" was for random wild feature requests, requests to configure things in undesireable ways, requests to reduce the security protections, etc.
<Fujitsu> persia: No, "Won't Fix" is really "Won't Fix Here"
<persia> Fujitsu: No, but they offer another example.
<LaserJock> I would say those would be Invalid
<LaserJock> Won't Fix is "yes it's a bug but we're not going to do anything about it"
 * persia doesn't like marking "Ship a driver for my mind control interface by default" "Invalid" just because nobody is going to work on it for a while.
<LaserJock> Invalid is "well, that's not really a bug, kthnxbye"
<LaserJock> I'd probably go with leaving it NEW and wishlist
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that's right
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Like "well, I don't know how to use the admin tools", or "something crashed, and I don't know what" or "Pressing Ctrl-C in a terminal stopped my program"
<LaserJock> ideally we should go to a 0 NEW state
<Fujitsu> Bugs aren't meant to remain at NEW, I don't think
<persia> Bugs are supposed to stop being new quickly: that means nobody looked, which doesn't give the right response.
<LaserJock> maybe that could Confirmed Wishlist then
<LaserJock> Won't Fix *should* be "we aren't going to do anything about it in Ubuntu"
<Fujitsu> It should be Won't Fix/Wishlist.
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> LaserJock: "Confirmed (whatever)" is what GNOME uses for upstream issues (along with an upstream task)
<Fujitsu> < mpt> This is why I wanted to call the status "Won't Fix *Here*"
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: sometime when you've got nothing to do you think you could have a look over qcad bugs?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sure, but I have very little time in the next ~month, due to final exams.
 * persia cheers mpt, but thinks that there should still be a good way to differentiate "that's a useless bug" from "fixing that breaks too many other things, and we're not going to do so"
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, that'd be good.
<LaserJock> I guess that's where the comment that goes along with the status change is important
<persia> LaserJock: True, but that's hard to search later.  I'll never care about useless bug reports again.  It may be worth investigating things that we're just not planning to do.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> wouldn't those be Confirmed Wishlist though
<persia> For example, xaos/compiz.  Since it works in OS X, it's probably a traceable issue, rather than a design issue.  We're just not motivated enough, or have better uses for our time.
<LaserJock> the "things that we're just no planning to do"
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Triaged, even.
<Fujitsu> Oh, oops.
<Fujitsu> Read that the wrong way.
<persia> LaserJock: Like fixing xaos / compiz
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I understand what you're saying
<LaserJock> I would like to be as realistic as possible though
<pkern> persia: Useless bugs could also be invalid?
<LaserJock> if I have a Confirmed but that seems to indicate to users that we're going to do something about it
<persia> Sure.  I just don't like "Won't Fix" for that sort of thing because it hides it by default, and someone interested might give up rather than fixing it.
<persia> pkern: Yes.  In my ideal world of bug triage, all useless bugs are "Invalid"
<LaserJock> whereas if I say "Won't Fix" but also "If you've got any patches, etc. feel free to reopen"
<pkern> persia: And all of Kmos? :-P
<LaserJock> it seems more realistic
<pkern> LaserJock: Hm that "*I* won't fix", not "I am really against that" then, which is the notion of wontfix in Debian. ;)
<persia> LaserJock: Sure, but if you mark it "Won't fix", even with the best comment, the initial summary views will discourage people unless they're really extra motivated.
 * persia has inherited the Debian sense of wontfix
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> we need like a "future" tag
<pkern> well afk, getting taught some tutoring skills.
<pkern> "maybe"
<LaserJock> for things that might be something to look at when people have more time, etc.
<pkern> As a modifier.
<pkern> "maybe" "won't fix"... or... "maybe" "confirmed"
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not crazy about that
<LaserJock> that sounds like we don't know what the heck we're talking about ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: "Deferred".  Especially useful for bugs passed upstream.
<LaserJock> ah, Deferred is more closely what I'm looking for
<persia> (Debian equivalent is "Forwarded", but that doesn't make sense in the context of Malone)
<LaserJock> I just don't want a bazillion statuses
<persia> LaserJock: Could you officially request that?  I think the distinction between "Deferred" and "Won't Fix" is important.
<pkern> persia: Or "deferred until upstream fixes it, I won't bother" aka "upstream". :-P
<pkern> Deferred is overloaded IMHO.
<pkern> deferred until vs deferred to a person
<pkern> :-P
<persia> pkern: I don't approve of maintainers that do that, but yes, that too.
<LaserJock> so Deferred might be like "Won't Fix" that still shows up in bug listings?
<pkern> s/overloaded/ambiguous/
<LaserJock> pkern: does it matter?
<persia> LaserJock: That sounds good to me.  Also, "Deferred" should not be so tightly restricted, but should require an open task to another project.
<Fujitsu> pkern: "deferred until upstream fixes it, I won't bother" is what Won't Fix is meant to mean.
<persia> pkern: We're all working together: it's never deferred to a person (although in practice it might seem that way when the teams are small)
<siretart> ah, actually we can merge them all into a new state called 'no'
 * persia still doesn't like that meaning of "Won't Fix"
<LaserJock> siretart: hi!
<siretart> heyha LaserJock
<siretart> away (again)
<LaserJock> persia: so basically you want to shift "Won't Fix" to mean "umm, that's silly, no thanks" and have "Deferred" to mean "We aren't going to fix it here but we'll track upstream"?
<persia> LaserJock: With "Invalid" as "That report doesn't contain a description of a bug that will ever lead to a description"
<lucas> nxvl: pong
<persia> err.. "...lead to a solution"
<LaserJock> right "Not a Bug"
<persia> LaserJock: Well, some of them might be bugs, but we can't tell.  For example "My computer crashed".
<nxvl> lucas: i was looking for you becauso of your post about mentors/REVU, but now i'm talking woth Signum, did you want to join us?
<LaserJock> right, but you're saying "This is not a valid bug report"
<LaserJock> for whatever reason
<lucas> yes
<lucas> where is it?
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Yes to "Not a Bug Report", maybe to "Not a Bug".
<nxvl> lucas: #debian-mentors
<nxvl> lucas: @ oftc
<Fujitsu> Then there are attempts to change defaults, or whatever, which should be "Won't Fix". And big things that are definitely upstream things, which are "Deferred" or so.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.
<Fujitsu> Probably need to talk to mpt about this next, or maybe kiko.
 * persia often works on upstream things, sending patches up after testing in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> ok, so I think we need to have definable differences between the statuses
<LaserJock> bah, I gotta get to bed
<Fujitsu> Night.
<LaserJock> persia: if you want maybe send an email to -motu outlining your thinking
<LaserJock> ?
<persia> LaserJock: If it can't be understood: "Invalid".  If it should not be fixed "Won't Fix".  If nobody is going to work on it in the foreseeable future "Deferred"
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> those are our meanings
<LaserJock> but we also need to translate that into LP terms, as in what statuses should show up in bug listings
<persia> LaserJock: Sure.  I'll stick it on my list - probably be about 5 or 6 hours before I have time to check all the right resources and send out a good mail.
<LaserJock> persia: k, thanks
<LaserJock> I'll follow up in the morning
<persia> "Deferred" should show in the same way that "Confirmed" shows, but just clearly indicate that nothing will happen soon.
<AnAnt> Hello, there used to be a packaging guide with Ubuntu documentation in Dapper
<AnAnt> where is it ?
<persia> AnAnt: There's a transition underway.  Try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide for a snapshot of the migration underway.
<AnAnt> thanks
<sebastian^> good morning folks :)
<Hobbsee> <pin drop>
 * Fujitsu jumps.
 * ion_ watches Fujitsy gently float back to the ground.
 * Fujitsu lands with a thump.
 * Fujitsu kicks promethium.
<Fujitsu> Every second build seems to stall for about 40 minutes before it actually does anything.
 * Hobbsee kicks liferea
<Hobbsee> is it just that planet ubuntu hates the world now, or that something broke liferea, with the planet ubuntu feed?
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: liferea don't work today with planet ubuntu
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> what's the bug in?
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: i don't know , the feed xlm don't work there is a parsing error on Line Number 20, Column 80:
<Hobbsee> yaeh, i see that.  oh well.
<BugMaN> Hobbsee:  <pre>&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;a href=&amp;quot;http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/&#x1b;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;YUI&amp;lt;/a&amp;g
<Hobbsee> yep
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: the error is in &#x1b;
<AnAnt> Hello, how does Ubuntu sign the packages with its own key, although maintainer can be anyone ?
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: Soyuz (the archive maintenance software) signs the indices.
<persia> AnAnt: The repository verifies the source package is signed by an authorized uploader, arranged an automated build, and signs the resulting binaries with it's own key.  It's not a bad robot, and doesn't mind being kicked occasionally (or at least we've never noticed any effect)
<BugMaN> Hobbsee: it's from the post of Matt Galvin  :)
<ion_> &amp;quot;
<ion_> Such a waste of bytes.
<Fujitsu> ion_: Heh, yes.
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: what indices ?
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: Release (see Release.gpg)
<ion_> At least in Atom you can include XHTML content directly, thanks to namespaces.
<AnAnt> so it isn't debuild that signs the package, they use gpg manually ?
<Hobbsee> BugMaN: yay...
<Fujitsu> AnAnt: The actual .changes and .dsc are still signed by the uploader, not the universal key.
<persia> AnAnt: Rather, there's additional automation involved
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: the binaries get signed by the ubuntu archive key
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not quite.
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: the sources get signed by our own indivial keys
<Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
<Fujitsu> Binaries aren't signed, are they?
<AnAnt> ok
<Fujitsu> Gah, dinner now.
<persia> Fujitsu: They surely are.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, the repo containing them is.
<Hobbsee> i think they are, too
<persia> Fujitsu: On the other hand, I'm not sure that we either distribute the signatures, nor that there are automated tools to verify the same.
<AnAnt> ok, what files in binary package are signed ? the .deb files only, right ?
<Hobbsee> seeing as the .debs *are* the binaries...
<persia> AnAnt: What are you trying to accomplish?
<AnAnt> persia: I am working on ubuntume, a derivative distro from ubuntu
<persia> AnAnt: Ah.  Your repository software should handle that.
<AnAnt> persia: what repository software ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: you'll get problems with trademarks for that, btw.
<persia> AnAnt: Also, aside from the settings and initial CD build, is there anything in ubuntume that shouldn't be in Ubuntu direct;y?
 * Hobbsee notes that ubuntume isnt a great name, either :)
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: trademarks ? I don't get it
<Hobbsee> due to windows ME being the worst version, and all
<persia> AnAnt: Umm.  Most people seem to use DAK or falcon, but there's a few.
<AnAnt> persia: no, most packages are indeed in Ubuntu or Debian indeed
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, has the PPA builder got Jammed : my package has been there for 17 hours : https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+build/427888
<AnAnt> persia: it's mostly the artwork & ubuntume-desktop that's in ubuntume repo
<persia> AnAnt: So the only variations are marketing and the default CD build?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<AnAnt> persia: I think so
<persia> AnAnt: In that case, why not get those packages into Ubuntu.  That way you don't have to maintain a repo, and you won't run into issues with trademarks, etc.
<AnAnt> persia: which packages ? the artwork & ubuntume-desktop ?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: someone's building openoffice iwht it.
<persia> The marketing can stay separate, and point at official sources.  Ubuntu Studio did it for gutsy, so there's no reason not to merge for hardy.
<Hobbsee> blueeyed, in fact
<persia> AnAnt: Yes.  Those packages.
<AnAnt> persia: well, if they are accepted then sure, the guy responsible for UbuntuME is more than welcoming the idea
<StevenHarperUK> aha, that'll be it : how long does that take normally?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: ages.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: see https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
<persia> AnAnt: All it takes is to have them 1) policy clean (linda & lintian can help with this), 2) sent to REVU for review, and 3) not break other artwork & desktop packages.
<Hobbsee> oh yay, he's been throwing repeated builds of ooo at the buildds.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: do you fancy having another look at my REVU package I made all the changes you asked for - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=416
<Hobbsee> 3 in the past 2 days, it looks like.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: This is actually a very bad time of day for me.  I may take a look later, but you'll get a better package by having different people review it, rather than the same person each time.
<AnAnt> persia: well, all those 3 points are being taken care of, except that some wallpaper licenses are not clear
<persia> AnAnt: Cool.  Let's do it that way rather than sorting out repository management :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: that's ok, ill ask other MOTU's to check it out, if you get time that would be great
<AnAnt> persia: the one who put them, got them from some websites, after making sure that they are free, but he didn't note who the original artist is
 * Hobbsee thinks there just arent enough people reviewing.
<AnAnt> persia: nor did he note the exact license terms
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do some reviewing, please :)
<persia> AnAnt: An unfortunate common mistake
 * persia notes that REVU season doesn't officially begin for 10 days
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: were just after the gutsy push so reviewers must be having a break
<Hobbsee> persia: thank goodness :)
<AnAnt> persia: so at least one package (untill this problem is resolved) has a bad copyright file
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: true.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: they got shoved so hard before, that i doubt they're too keen to get into it again :)
<persia> AnAnt: The first REVU day isn't until the 5th, but as a short term solution, perhaps the unclear images could be dropped temporarily...
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: yes I know - but I'm still gunna keep asking/bugging
 * Hobbsee glances at it
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: why is it native?
 * persia continues to think that native isn't correct.
<StevenHarperUK> because im not sure how to make it unnative
<StevenHarperUK> I can make an orig.tar.gz, but then what do I do with it?
<Hobbsee> bah, persia just left.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: is this from svn, or?
<AnAnt> persia: problem is that almost all images are like that
<_nand_> hello!
<StevenHarperUK> svn
<_nand_> a small question for you: how do we handle the package so that it will show up on the "Add/Remove..." application?
<_nand_> a tag perhaps?
<Hobbsee> _nand_: ask mvo whne he's around.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: your version numbre should probably say something about svn in it.
<_nand_> Hobbsee: ok
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: why?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: to say that it's a svn version, not a released version.
<Hobbsee> oh, you're upstream as well.  why not just do a release of it? :)
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I keep them 2 numbers the same...
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee it's all my code and my oackagaing
 * Hobbsee doesnt understand the first part
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: Im dying to get on with more code, but the packing woes  are taking up time
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: another question, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: how much of the packaging guide did you read, btw?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: ask asac.
<AnAnt> asac: Hello, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: most of it, its very heavyweight if your a first timer, as almost every term you have to lookup and work out
<Fujitsu> _nand_: You create a .desktop file, and mvo's script should pick it up when it next runs.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I have exams, and don't normally review, so nanananananana I'm not listening.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: yeah.  packaging's kinda hard like that
<_nand_> Fujitsu: Ah ok! Thanks for the info!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you have to.  i technically shouldnt review anymore :)
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: for a newcomer its not friendly....
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: packaging *isnt* friendly.  but i know.
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: to make a non-native package I make the orig.tar.gz then what do I do with it?
 * Hobbsee reviews the rest
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can you explain that please?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Explain what? The non-nativity?
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: I own the code and the svn: I am currently doing my builds and making Native packages, how do I switch to make non-native
<StevenHarperUK> I know I have to make a orig.tar.gz without the debian directory
<StevenHarperUK> but t hen what do I do with it
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Tar up and gzip the SVN export, with the name package_whateverversion.orig.tar.gz, in the parent directory, then modify the version in debian/changelog to have a hyphen in it, ie. whateverversion-0ubuntu1 or so.
<AnAnt> asac: ping
<Fujitsu> Then debuild as normal.
<Fujitsu> And hope it works.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujutsu: fantastic actual instructions : your a star : I'm gunna try  that right now
<Fujitsu> Hah, I'm no good at instructing.
<oly-> hi, is anyone around that can recommend a python ssl package that i can use as an example for creating my deb
<oly-> i know i need some kind of exception, because my code is gpl but because it uses ssl libraries i need to make some kind of exception
<Fujitsu> That's one licensing issue I don't know much about.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Why 0ubuntu1 - does that increment? or is that a static suffix?
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: That increments. For example, our next would be 0ubuntu2, 0ubuntu3, etc.
<Fujitsu> Debian packages have -1, -2, -3, etc.
<Fujitsu> If we change a Debian package, it becomes -1ubuntu1, -1ubuntu2...
<oly-> yeah and this is my first attempt at packaging, so its even more of problem for me
<oly-> thats why i need an example,
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: right I get it
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: done.
<oly-> but i dont know what programs that use ssl are written in python
<Hobbsee> oh, pft.  it stole my <>'s
<StevenHarperUK> hobbsee : thanks
<Fujitsu> oly-: Why is Python relevant?
<oly-> only because, others have told that packaging python programs is a bit different as well
<Fujitsu> That shouldn't affect licensing..
<oly-> i guess just an ssl might help with licensing though
<oly-> so if you can recommend one :)
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: bonus points from having the address that you downloaded it from 404'ing.  that's quite impressive.
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: yeh i'll fix that.....
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I tried this before (Delete the build-deps) and I got build errors
<Hobbsee> as in, completely, or leaving the build-dep-indep stuff there?
<StevenHarperUK> I had just (build-dep-ind) and removed the build-dep
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, StevenHarperUK: Not latestrelease~svnYYYYMMDD, but nextrelease~svnYYYYMMDD or latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD
<s1024kb> Hello everyone, i am new here...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, my bad.
<s1024kb> It's the first time i use IRC...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: think i've been smashing too many people for using wrong ppa versions, which tends to use latest~svn...
<Hobbsee> hi s1024kb
<s1024kb> Hello Hobbsee
<s1024kb> Nice to meet you.
<StevenHarperUK> I think nextrelease~svnYYYYMMD will be my choice
<s1024kb> I want to become a MOTU, so I come here to say hello... I am a beginner.
<man-di> StevenHarperUK: latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD is better
<StevenHarperUK> ok latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD
<man-di> StevenHarperUK: as you will never really know how upstream version the next release
<man-di> a.b can becoem a.b+1 or a.b.1 or so
<huats> hello everyone
<s1024kb> Hello, hauts.
<SWAT> is it recommended to use one chroot per package or will one chroot suffice for building several (if not all) packages?
<Hobbsee> SWAT: pbuilder is smarter.
<Hobbsee> SWAT: one chroot for building all packages is not OK.
<Hobbsee> SWAT: or one chroot per package, if you so insist :)
<SWAT> Hobbsee, thanks, you'll probably see some more annoying questions of me in the near future
<Hobbsee> SWAT: no problem
<Hobbsee> SWAT: youve' seen !pbuilder i take it?
<SWAT> I came across it, indeed
<Hobbsee> cool
<SWAT> I want to build several packages from source though (not the deb-src, but the real source)
<s1024kb> excuse me... could anyone tell me how to use the grab-merge.sh script please?
<Hobbsee> grab-merge.sh package you want.
<huats> s1024kb: don't forget to use it in an empty directory
<huats> s1024kb: since it will rease everything in it
<s1024kb> thank you. excuse me, but how to run it? I am a Windows programmer and just new to Ubuntu. Sorry for my stupid question...
<huats> s1024kb:  first download it
<huats> than you have to make it executabe
<huats> executable
<s1024kb> I had downloaded it already. So i should change it's property to become an executable file?
<huats> to do so : chmod +x grab-merge.sh
<huats> yeah you can do it that way too :)
<huats> and than just launch it
<s1024kb> thank you huats.
<huats> what is the package that you want to merge ?
<s1024kb> Don't know yet... want to know where to begin. I have just been in this community for a few days, and want to start my first job, but don't know how to begin. You are nice, thank you huats.
<SWAT> on that note, is pbuilder also preferred when building packages from source?
<huats> s1024kb: no pb
<huats> s1024kb: you'll find a lot of very nice people here....
<huats> s1024kb: I am almost as new as you are (let's say with just a few months of experience)
<huats> I have some questions about reporting bugs to debian...
<huats> does anybody can explain me a few stuffs ?
<s1024kb> thank you very much. But my time here is limited. I have less than an hour on line, i often download the documentation and read them at home. I have no internet access at home.
<Fujitsu> huats: What's the issue?
<huats> Fujitsu: hey
<huats> Fujitsu: if I provide a patch with the bug, I'll have a field : "Usertags: origin-ubuntu ubuntu-patch gutsy" so it is useless to also have the tag "Tags : patch" right ?
<huats> I am about to report it by email...
<Fujitsu> I think you should still tag it patch.
<huats> ok
<huats> the patch it is a "simple" debdiff ?
<Fujitsu> What do you mean?
<s1024kb> excuse me huats, i had changed the property of the script file. But how to run it please?
<huats> Fujitsu: I mean the same one that I provided in launchpad
<huats> s1024kb: ./grab-merge.sh the_package_name
<s1024kb> thank you huats
<huats> Fujitsu: by instance, if I want to report bug 154472
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
<Fujitsu> Oh, you can't be serious.... OOo just failed for the third time in what's his name's PPA...
<huats> can I put them the debdiff I put in it (since the patch was against the debian version)
<Fujitsu> huats: You probably don't want to attach a debdiff.
<huats> Fujitsu: no ? so what about the patch ?
<Fujitsu> huats: Just submit the patch against the .desktop.
<huats> ok
<huats> Fujitsu: and do you know the addresse to submit to ?
<huats> :)
<Fujitsu> huats: submit@bugs.debian.org?
<huats> Fujitsu: probably I don't know...
<s1024kb> excuse me huats, there are a lot of names on the http://merges.ubuntu.com/ page, but don't know which package to grab and how to grab...
<huats> Fujitsu: I was looking in the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging and I haven't fid it (or I have misread)
<huats> Fujitsu: thanks
<huats> s1024kb: you have to pick one of them...
<huats> s1024kb: the thing is it might be a bit difficult to start like this
<Fujitsu> huats: That just describes usertagging, not filing bugs.
<huats> Fujitsu: I think it was quite related...
<s1024kb> so shall i start this way: where to find the tools and where to get the documentation about them? Which tools are needed?
<huats> s1024kb: the thing you should do is subscribe yourself to ubuntu-motu-mentors
<huats> it is a list for new contributors
<huats> who are looking for someone to lead them a bit
<huats> but you won't be able to get a mentor before you have done a few stuffs by yourself...
<s1024kb> I have already had a mentor (Cesare) but he is not here. It's difficult to meet him because my time zone is GMT+8
<Hobbsee> s1024kb: have you thought about doing some translation stuff?
<s1024kb> yes
<Hobbsee> it probably doesnt require knowing as much as this does - particularly if you dont know hwo to run a shell script.
<s1024kb> OK, i want to do anything for contribution. But as a programmer i believe that i can learn things very fast - finally i want to get involve with the development. I guess that everyone has his/her beginning...
<s1024kb> I just wish my difficult beginning will gone soon...
<huats> s1024kb: norsetto is really a great guy...
<s1024kb> i know, huats...i want to learn things faster, i don't want to disappointed him...
<s1024kb> huats, could you please give me some help? Could you please tell me how to begin?
<persia> Wow!  Setting the DPI correctly really makes a difference :)
<s1024kb> Bye everyone... gotta live now.
<AnAnt> asac: Hello, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
<persia> AnAnt: You'll need to have the right type of package.  I think the team in #ubuntu-mozilla can probably help you best (although I may have the channel incorrect)
<AnAnt> no such channel
<AnAnt> persia: oh btw, about the wallpapers
<Fujitsu> #ubuntu-mozillateam, IIRC.
<AnAnt> persia: problem is that almost all images are like that
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: thanks
<persia> AnAnt: Ah.  Not actually legal then :(  Perhaps a call for volunteers to create images from the community?
<AnAnt> persia: legal but we have to search for the original artists to put their names in copyright files
<persia> AnAnt: Distribution of materials with neither assignment of copyright nor explicit license is a violation of the granted monopoly in territories controlled by all signatories of the Berne convention.  The remainder of the world is small in landmass and doesn't tend to have high-quality internet access.
<AnAnt> huh ?
<persia> AnAnt: Basically, if someone makes something in most parts of the world, they are granted an exclusive monopoly to distribute that thing.
<persia> If anyone else distributes copies of the thing, than the distributor has violated the monopoly, and is liable to suit by the creator.
<persia> This applies for written works, the text of speeches, any artwork, published collections of sound, and published video.  It may apply for other things: I don't remember.
<persia> In summary, if you have neither received neither an assignment of rights nor explicit permission from the creator, you cannot distribute it.
<persia> s/neither//1
<AnAnt> persia: well, some are under CC license, others are from a site called sxc.net, where uploaders (ie. artists) say that their work is free to use, but the person who downloaded the images says that to find the author of each wallpaper is "time-consuming effort-demanding absolutely wearing process , if not impossible"
<AnAnt> so I think that until they straighten out this issue, I won't put the wallpapers on MOTU
<persia> AnAnt: If the works are under CC license, they should have come with info about the copyright holder, and there's a grant, so it's OK.  For the stuff from sxc.net, if people publically indicate that they are free to use, they are free to use: it's just a matter of collecting names.
<AnAnt> yup
<persia> AnAnt: Looking at sxc.net, it appears to just be a bunch of links to other sites.  Any idea where the images actually came from?
<AnAnt> persia: sorry, it's sxc.hu
<persia> AnAnt: See http://www.sxc.hu/help/8_1 : The uploaders have all authorized SXC to be the non-exclusive agent for licensing images.  SXC therefore become responsible for providing the license information on demand.  I suspect that someone in HAAP Media (www.haap.hu) would be the best source of info.
<AnAnt> persia: you mean that SXC is copyright holder ?
<persia> AnAnt: The problem is that http://www.sxc.hu/info.phtml?f=help&s=8_2 specifically prohibits redistribution of the images, so the person who downloaded from that site doesn't have permission to release them as part of an image collection.
<persia> AnAnt: Not the copyright holder, but that the copyright holder has entered into a contract such that SXC is an agent, and that SXC is therefore an acceptable counterparty with whom to negotiate an agreement (and should be able to provide the required information regarding actual copyright)
<persia> AnAnt: Another issue with the license is that in addition to preventing redistribution, the license is non-transferable, which means that if you did distribute, the recipient would not be able to use the images, so both the distributor and recipient would be in violation.
<fernando> moin all
<AnAnt> persia: thanks
<persia> AnAnt: No problem.  My apologies that what I find isn't as helpful as I'd hoped.
<AnAnt> persia: it is !
<persia> AnAnt: You can find a way around the no redistribution and non-transferable issues?  If you can, that would be wonderful.
<AnAnt> persia: yes, not to include the images !
<persia> AnAnt: heh.  That works.
<AnAnt> persia: actually, I'll check if the guy has explicity asked permission from sxc.hu
<persia> AnAnt: That works as well.  If there's a special agreement with HAAP, then there's no problem at all.
<persia> (as long as the special agreement allows 1) redistribution, 2) transfer, and 3) sale for profit)
<AnAnt> persia: but we still must mention original artists as copyright holders, right ?
<AnAnt> persia: I mean, in case HAAP approves redistribution
<persia> AnAnt: Depends on the agreement with SXC/HAAP, and exactly how the licensing is done: it may be that SXC/HAAP has received assignment in some way (although I think not), and can be listed in lieu of the original artists.  Given how non-standard it is, it's probably much easier to just get different images.
<AnAnt> ok, thanks for your help
<AnAnt> got to go
<AnAnt> bye
<zul_> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi zul_.
<warp10> Hi all!
<Fujitsu> Hi warp10.
<warp10> Fujitsu: :)
<huats> norsetto: hey you
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: Hola!!
<huats> norsetto: bonjour
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: wasn't there a song that began: Hey you, don'let me down ....
<huats> norsetto: may be
 * norsetto is really showing his age now ......
<huats> norsetto: I don't know
<huats> norsetto: who is supposed to be the singer/band ?
<norsetto> huats: well, it was a semi-joke, since it really is Hey Jude ....
<huats> :)
<huats> ok
<huats> you are not that old... even myself this song
<huats> well I know it for being an old standard... by anyway :P
<norsetto> huats: I just checked, it is indeed: "Hey, Jude! Don't let her down", so booooooooh
<norsetto> huats: so, lets see if you find another one that begins with hey you (I found another one easy)
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: I'll play
<norsetto> huats: Em9
<huats> let me 2 minutes
<huats> norsetto: it is a too easy game
<huats> :)
<huats> google is so powerful :(
<norsetto> huats: well, use your brain(tm) instead of google
<huats> but I have to say I cannot think of another one by myself....
<norsetto> huats: me neither :-)
<huats> norsetto: there is a parameter : I am in the back of my bed...
<huats> still no very healthy
<huats> well things are geting better
<norsetto> huats: in the back of your bed, of course you must not be very healthy in that position ...
<huats> but not perfect yet
<huats> :)
<norsetto> there you go, heinlein finally gave up
<huats> ?
<norsetto> huats: thats what they call the ola here
<huats> ok
<huats> norsetto: regarding your comment on the conduit bug I am ending the patch to debia right now...
<norsetto> huats: well, no need really for  patch, just the .desktop should do
<huats> yep
<norsetto> huats: which reminds me that it doesn't start with an imperative verb ;-)
<norsetto> huats: I mean, the comment should be something like "synchronize your whatever"
<huats> yep
<huats> I was looking at the reference
<norsetto> huats: I would guess "synchronize you data"
<norsetto> huats: I would guess "synchronize your data" even
<norsetto> huats: actually, the best most probably would be to send it directly upstream
<norsetto> huats: http://www.conduit-project.org/newticket
<huats> norsetto: I will send it both
<huats> norsetto: ok I am doing it right now...
<norsetto> I'm a bugman, I'm a bugman, and forgot to subscribe u-u-s
<BugMaN> norsetto: where? :)
<norsetto> bugman: of course it helps with some '80 disco music in the background
<BugMaN> norsetto: also if a bug is for desktop team?
<norsetto> BugMaN: bug 157360
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157360 in gnome-doc-utils "Please merge gnome-doc-utils from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157360
<BugMaN> BugMaN: ok then bug 157377 also :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157377 in gconf-editor "Please merge gconf-editor from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157377
<BugMaN> norsetto: i'll do now :)
<norsetto> yeah, I like I'm a bogeyman better
<norsetto> bugman: did you talk with loic about it?
<BugMaN> norsetto: nope i'm waiting seb
<BugMaN> norsetto: gnome-doc-utils is in main
<norsetto> bugman: well, u-m-s then
<norsetto> huats: Its Loic some kind of Breton name?
<huats> yep
<BugMaN> norsetto: gconf-editor also :)
<huats> norsetto: you know there is a french mafia around the desktop team :)
<norsetto> bugman: hey, on your way to core-dev soon eh :-)
<BugMaN> norsetto: :)
<norsetto> bugman: his nickname is lool in case you need it
<BugMaN> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> huats: do you think that having a french wife could qualify me?
<huats> norsetto: I think you are in a good way...
<norsetto> huats: I even speack french, look: olalalalalÃ¡
<huats> you might have to ask the french nationality
<huats> and give us back the soccer world cup
<huats> but it is a good start
<norsetto> huats: ask the english for the rugby one back first
<huats> norsetto: do mention that it hurts
<huats> norsetto: and england have lost in final (this time)
<huats> norsetto: I have put the new version of the conduit desktop file
<huats> I've send the mail to debian
<huats> and I have create a ticket on the conduit's trac
<norsetto> huats: you talk like you have a cold "do mention that it hurts" ;-)
<huats> oh
<huats> it was more "doN'T mention ....'
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: are you going to link these bugs to the LP one?
<huats> I am about for the debian
<huats> but is it possible for the conduit ?
<huats> I was about to see
<norsetto> huats: well, at leasty manually it should be possible
<rexbron> persia: I have emailed upstream regarding some of the issues you raised and am awaiting a reply. As for the other issues, I have fixed them and will upload them when I have heard back from upstream. Thanks for you help :)
<persia> rexbron: Are there any upstream issues other than the licensing for the other two organs & the DTD?
<rexbron> persia: the manpage, binary file (possibly unintentionaly included) and an icon
<zul> freaking redhat installs
<huats> norsetto: there is no conduit project in LP
<rexbron> persia: I also suggested in future releases to consider adding a configureation file/ dialoug. the current command line options do not lend themselves to .desktop files
<persia> rexbron: You could write a manpage :)  The icon isn't that critical, and I think the binary file is just a project file for the IDE.
<huats> norsetto: or is it gnome-pilot-conduit...
<rexbron> persia: I suggested I do that for upstream
<persia> rexbron: No need to be so timid.  It's great to work with upstream, but in most cases, they're happy to get patches.
<rexbron> persia: hopfully upstream will release a maitence release to address those licencing and clean tarball issues
<rexbron> persia: also, the build script that genpo includes does not install genpo, the user is told to run it from the build dir or any other of their choise
<ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAY all.
<persia> rexbron: True.  Until then, you could also consider a x.y.z-dfsg version, which doesn't contain the .bzr or unlicensed files.  I don't remember there being anything critical missing that was needed to make it work.
<rexbron> persia: I could forward you the email I sent to Steve
<rexbron> persia: that is definately an option if Steve does not have the time
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
<persia> rexbron: If you like.  I'm not likely to interfere either way - I'll just encourage you to do as much as can be done locally, just in case Steve is busy.  It's not that hard to merge later, especially with a new upstream.
<ScottK> Hello Fujitsu.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I'm glad you enjoyed the new publishing history page as much as I did.
<norsetto> hi scottk
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Oh yes.
<Fujitsu> I also enjoyed other Soyuz features today.
<ScottK> Hello norsetto.
<rexbron> persia: I would also like to look into getting genpo into debian when it is polished enough
<persia> rexbron: Have you filed an ITP?
<huats> norsetto: I don't see how to link it to the conduit trac
 * rexbron should do that
<rexbron> persia: Will do
<norsetto> huats: let me see
<huats> norsetto: no problem
<norsetto> huats: we could register the project, but in this case I think it is simpler just to paste the link in a comment
<huats> ok
<huats> I will do it
<huats> I think it is the best thing too
<norsetto> huats: you may also want to correct the typo in the title (if you can)
<huats> which is ? the mention of the menu item while it is the desktop file ?
<norsetto> huats: .desktop is ot HIG compliant
<huats> I don't see the difference
<norsetto> huats: have you got some kind of virus in your pc? There is hardly any activity in that tracker and half an hour after your report yours there is some spam appearing :-)
<proppy> hi
<norsetto> huats: http://www.conduit-project.org/ticket/950
<norsetto> hey proppy
<huats> norsetto: :)
<proppy> hey norsetto
<proppy> it's been a while !
<huats> norsetto: I wasn't looking at the right place
<huats> hey proppy
<proppy> hey huats
<norsetto> proppy: its been a long day night
<huats> norsetto: beware you the french guy with a virus
<huats> norsetto: still singing ?
<norsetto> huats: :-)
<norsetto> huats: if only I could remember the words correctly
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: I cannot change the title :(
<norsetto> huats: well, it will remain there as a memento to your virus
<huats> ;)
<huats> speaking o virus
<proppy> nani virus ?
<huats> i'll get some sleep... I am really tired
<norsetto> huats: its been a hard day night (it makes sense)
<huats> see you soon
<huats> :)
<norsetto> huats: take care, see you soon back in shape again :-)
<huats> of course
<huats> don't we say : strong as a toulousain ?
<huats> no you are right we never say that
 * norsetto wonders if the fever will get down to bearable levels
<norsetto> how is it going with mumble proppy-san?
<proppy> norsetto: can you report your comment to the bug report ?
<norsetto> proppy: which comment?
<apachelogger> can someone please revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=425 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=426 ?
<proppy> norsetto: comment you send me by mail about the init.d and path stuff
<norsetto> proppy: and do you think I keep all the stuff I send out?
<ScottK> soren and geser: Congratulations.
<proppy> norsetto: Ok I will report it myself to the bug report
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, are results out?
<ScottK> Yeah.
<proppy> norsetto: it seems important to work in a directory named package-version when you're generating patch ?
<persia> bmk789: You'll need to Build-Depends: on libwxbase2.6-dev.  More generally, repeat the process a few times, and eventually you'll have all the build dependencies.
 * Hobbsee wondesr what geser and soren's plans are now.
<norsetto> proppy: which patch system you using? becuase usually it isn't
<zul> besides world domination and partying like its 1995?
<proppy> norsetto: cdbs
<proppy> norsetto: i get an error when applying my patch on dapper
<norsetto> what? 1995 is already over!? Nobody ever tell me anything
<bmk789> persia: thanks ill try it
<proppy> norsetto: the patch system didn't use the correct -p option
<persia> norsetto: It doesn't matter if it's now or then, it's still a party style :)
<proppy> norsetto: but on gutsy feisty it's ok
<persia> proppy: Did you use cdbs-edit-patch?
<proppy> norsetto: yep
<proppy> persia:
<proppy> yep
<proppy> persia: norsetto: check the unittest++ line http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
 * persia suspects a Dapper CDBS bug
<proppy> dapper Trying patch debian/patches/01-pkgconfig.patch at level 0...success.
<proppy> edgy and+:  Trying patch debian/patches/01-pkgconfig.patch at level 1 ... success.
<proppy> norsetto: I've updated bug #129081
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
<proppy> norsetto: with your comments
<norsetto> proppy: thanks
<proppy> norsetto: oups I forgot to put your name in front :)
<jpatrick> norsetto: could you add me to the mentors? KDE packages prefered, jpatrick@kubuntu.org
<proppy> norsetto: reported all the discussion to bug #129081
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
<proppy> norsetto: can you comment ?
<norsetto> jpatrick: sure! thanks for helping!!
<proppy> persia: what do you advice about the cdbs bug ?
 * persia digs a little
<proppy> persia: it's about patching level
<persia> proppy: Right.
<bmk789> another error :\  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42231/
<norsetto> jpatrick: just one slot?
<jpatrick> norsetto: yeah, for now
<persia> proppy: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=365524
<proppy> persia: nice one
 * persia grumbles about ubotu not being patient with the BTS
<proppy> persia: patient ?
<proppy> persia: so next step is to request a backport ?
<persia> proppy: I very much doubt anyone would be happy about backporting a fix for that to Dapper, so you'll probably have to create the new file in a different manner.  One possible way (and not my favorite) is to drop the file in debian/, and copy it in place in debian/rules.
<persia> proppy: Timed out trying to get meta-data
<bddebian> Heya gang
<proppy> persia: is it bad to put it directly in place ?
<proppy> persia: the diff.gz will containt it
<proppy> persia: outside of the debian directory
<persia> proppy: If the Debian maintainer is using a patch system, putting patches directly in the .diff.gz is poor form: it makes it harder to understand the changes that have been applied to the package.
<proppy> persia: context http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=proppy@aminche.com
<rexbron> persia: what would be a better plan of action, to get genpo into ubuntu, then debian or the opposite an then request a sync?
<proppy> persia: I plan to update the outdated package
<proppy> persia: I'm the maintainer, and upload it via a DD
<persia> proppy: Essentially, only one of `lsdiff -z *.diff.gz | grep -v debian` or `cat debian/patches/* | lsdiff` should generate a complete list of files altered by the package.
<proppy> persia: this is the only patch present in the package
<proppy> persia: I put the patch system only to create that file
<persia> proppy: OK.  If you are using a patch system, it makes life easier for the security team to not put it in the diff.gz, and they will be less likely to shoot you if they have to touch your package.  (in general, the security team likes everything in diff.gz, but not everyone agrees with them)
<proppy> by everything in diff.gz you mean everything in debian in the diff.gz ?
<persia> proppy: If the patch system is only for that file, it's your call.  I prefer patch systems personally.  You might try dpatch instead of simple-patchsys.
<persia> rexbron: Doesn't really matter.  I generally find getting things into Ubuntu first is faster at the beginning of an Ubuntu cycle, and getting things into Debian first is faster at the end of an Ubuntu cycle, but it depends on how quickly you think NEW processing will take.
<StevenHarperUK_> hi
<persia> bmk789: It looks to me like you're compiling against wxwidgets2.8, but the previous error asked for wxwidgets2.6.  Unless you want to port it, you probably want to adjust your build-depends.
<proppy> does dpatch mix well with cdbs ?
<StevenHarperUK_> I have now made my REVU package non-native and made all other changes requested by reviewers : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=427 : i am now looking for reviews by MOTU's (I currently have no advocations)  thanks
<bmk789> really?  it asked for 2.8 on my system
<bmk789> ill give it a try
<StevenHarperUK_> Oh and I have tested it with p builder and it builds.....
<persia> bmk789: I was referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002572.html
<proppy> eroor in the doc http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch05s03.html, "A real-life example of dpatch usage is the xterm package." seems they have switched to quilt
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: That's a really good request.  Thanks for the extra info :)
<persia> proppy: for CDBS dpatch, just include the CDBS dpatch rule :)
<persia> (oh, and use dpatch-edit-patch to create your patch)
<proppy> persia: ok :)
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: ta I am working on my requests
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: You're upstream for this, aren't you?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: Yep and it all nice n non-native now
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: just as you asked
<tsmithe> can someone take a look at http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wired/wired_0.5.1+dfsg2-0tsmithe3.dsc and advise me on what to do about the shlib lintian warning? i'm not sure what to do. i've tried a number of things, but it's still not going anywhere. "shlib-missing-in-control-file" is the error i'm trying to combat
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: When the package is just about ready, you might consider making a release tarball for general distribution (with svn export), and not having an SVN version number, but that's not a blocking issue.
<StevenHarperUK_> Roger that I can do that for proper releases
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Right.  No point until all the little bits are ironed out :)
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: it is all in development, its only slowed to get the packaging perfect
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: You've still a few linda & lintian errors showing for me.  Try adding all the arguments shown on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: REVU shows no linda errors
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: and the lintian errors are bacuse REVU does not understand the hardy
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: REVU doesn't use all the switches I do, and doesn't run against the binary packages.
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK_: thats because you are not looking at the binary packages
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: Right ill get onto that now
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Good luck.  The switches shown are super-verbose, and should provide some advice on how to address them.
<bmk789> no matter what i change im still getting that error :\
<proppy> persia: I've included /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk and create a patch using dpatch-edit-patch
<proppy> persia: but it doesn't apply
<persia> bmk789: If you unpack the original tarball somewhere outside the package directory, and build it locally, does it work?
<persia> proppy: debian/patches/00list
<proppy> persia: do I need to create 00list manually ?
<persia> Unfortunately
<proppy> ls *.dpatch > 00list
<norsetto> proppy: I'm starting to appreciate quilt if you want to try it
<persia> proppy: That works.  I usually just do it manually :)
<persia> norsetto: Does CDBS have a magic quilt rule yet?
<proppy> norsetto: does it works with cdbs >
<proppy> ?
<norsetto> persia: proppy doesn't even add sugar to his coffee manually
<persia> proppy: It certainly works, but I believe you need to add the hooks manually in debian/rules
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  Well then...
<proppy> E: unittest++ source: missing-build-dependency dpatch
<proppy> F
<proppy> I love lintian :)
<proppy> norsetto: let's do some quilt for mumble :)
<norsetto> proppy: lets hope not .....
<persia> proppy: I'd strongly recommend doing a couple quilt patches for packages that have already migrated before trying it on a new one.  It has a different interface...
<proppy> persia: ok
<proppy> norsetto: persia: but quilt seems a bit overkill for a one file patch doesn't it ?
 * persia thinks it's a matter of choice, and that changing patch systems later is annoying
<stani> Hi, i am the author of a package (spe, python editor, http://pythonide.stani.be) which was packaged by debian and then synced in universe. I know this should be fixed in debian, but Scott advised me to go here first as ubuntu-motu is more open to teaching. Unfortunately the program fails on gutsy because it chooses the wrong version of wxpython. (By consequence people keep on posting duplicates of this bug, already 18 and I get almost eve
<persia> stani: Which version of wxpython is it choosing?
<stani> it is choosing wxpython2.8 now, but it should be 2.6
<norsetto> stani: breath from time to time
<proppy> now the works is done let's try it on dapper
<stani> norsetto: I know ;-)
<persia> stani: Just to make sure, we're looking at version 0.8.2a, repacked, right?
<stani> persia: yes
<ScottK> stani: Welcome.
<persia> Hmm..  From what I see, it looks like it selects the wxpython version at runtime.
<stani> persia: the new version of spe 0.8.4.b is working with wxpython 2.8, but it not released nor packaged
<proppy> persia: norsetto: dapper is green http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
<proppy> persia: norsetto: thanks :)
<stani> persia: yes, but it does by selecting minimally 2.5.4.2, which means it will select the highest installed which is often 2.8
<stani> persia: as proposed in my patch, it should *only* select 2.6 as that is also the wxpython version which will get installed by installing spe through apt
<persia> stani: Well, there are two choices, depending on what you want to fix.  For future releases, 0.8.4.b seems to be the best solution (although it needs to be backward compatible with 2.6 for Debian).  For fixing past Ubuntu releases, we'd need a targeted patch that limited it to <<2.7 or some similar trick.
<stani> hi ScottK, nice you are here
<stani> persia: spe 0.8.4.b is backwards compatible with 2.6 and it fixes a lot more bugs on ubuntu
<stani> persia: moreover it is integrated with nautilus, gnome-terminal and so on
 * persia suspects tsmithe has left prior to getting a response :(
<gpocentek> coNP[uni]: FYI I'm merging goffice
<persia> ScottK: What do you think about backporting 0.8.4.b?
<stani> persia: spe 0.8.2.a was developed on windows (sorry for that), but 0.8.4.b was developed on ubuntu
<stani> persia: spe is 100% pure python, so no binaries involved
<persia> stani: Nothing wrong with cross-platform software :)
<ScottK> persia: The current version has SRU worthy issues.  Backports are not a substitued for the SRU process.
<stani> persia: I notice that the platform of the developer is always on a better seat then the other platforms of the program
<persia> ScottK: s/Backport/SRU/ then.  The question is more whether to take the new upstream, or monkeypatch to force <<2.7.  The dependencies are right, but the runtime check doesn't enforce it.
<SWAT> what's the best way to build packages from source (not deb-src)? Create chroots (without pbuilder) and then use debhelper?
<stani> persia: i guess spe now runs better on ubuntu then on windows
<persia> stani: Usually.  Some people are more flexible (e.g. apache & ardour, just to pick two starting with "a")
<persia> SWAT: There's no official "best" way.  The buildds use sbuild (as do I)
<dfiloni> anybody can do keys re-sync?
<ScottK> persia: It's a degree of difficulty thing I guess.
<zul> mental note...always compile before porting
<bmk789> persia: i think its working
<persia> ScottK: You know my level of python :)
<persia> bmk789: Great!
<oly-> i have a quick question, i have included an exception for openssl in my debian/copyright file, do i also need to include this in all source code, or only the parts that use ssl ?
<stani> persia: i am willing first to do the little fix and later maybe to learn packaging a new release
<oly-> or is just the copyright file sufficent
<SWAT> persia, thanks. I know there is no official 'best way', but 'a good way' is also worth a lot ;)
<ScottK> persia and stani: Is the big issue in Gutsy that it's using the wrong wxpython version?
<stani> persia: i am afraid that going immediately for 0.8.4.b would be a big step too far for me personally
<persia> oly-: You need to include it in the relevant licensing for any code that uses SSL.  Just to make sure, such exceptions are not allowed to be a patch, but must be upstream.
<stani> scottk: the problem is that spe requires wxpython2.6 which is correctly handled by apt, but wxpython 2.8 is now also often installed on people system and spe chooses now based on a minimum criterium with favours 2.8
<persia> ScottK: Right.  The runtime check uses the default system wxpython because it's >> 2.5.4.2, and on Ubuntu it's wxpython2.8, which is different enough to cause problems.
<oly-> well only the webserver part uses the ssl, but it includes lots of libraries that handle the data but these do not directly use ssl
<oly-> its all very confusing
<stani> scott: spe should not choose at "least 2.6" but "only 2.6"
<ScottK> POX_: Are you around? ^^^ Any ideas on how to force spe to use wxpython2.6?
<oly-> and i am not to sure what you mean persia, by mucst be upstream and not a patch
<persia> I don't think it would be a problem in Feisty, as I think 2.6 was the default wx at that point (although 2.8 was also included)
<stani> scottk: i have submitted a fix in launchpad which fixes it
<oly-> its a program i have been working on for the past 6 months, just want to get it into a suitable state for the next ubuntu
<ScottK> stani: OK.
<imbrandon> good morning all
<ScottK> persia: Can you take a look at his solution?
<persia> oly-: Licensing exceptions to allow linking against SSL must be granted by the original developers rather than imposed by a distributor.
<zul> hey imbrandon
<ScottK> good morning imbrandon.
<persia> stani: Which bug?
<oly-> so thats me, so thats okay :)
<stani> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spe/+bug/124896
<ScottK> persia: ^^^
<persia> oly-: Ah.  That's easier then.  I just like to make sure :)
<oly-> although its now a team on launchpad, cept i am the only one working on it still,
<persia> ScottK: The versions look fine to me, but I can't speak to the syntax, nor how this influences it at runtime.
<oly-> the only other thinng, is do i put exception in all source files or only the one that directly links
 * ScottK looks.
<persia> oly-: Anything that ends up in the same binary at the end of the build process.
<stani> persia: I have tested it myself on feisty and gutsy
<oly-> okay, although a binary is not created its a python program
<persia> stani: Just to verify, there's no problem with the current package on feisty, is there?
<persia> (feisty had 2.6 & 2.8, but used wx-common from 2.6)
<oly-> but i guess i put it in all files, because once its run by a user it probably counts as a binary
<stani> persia: no
<proppy> norsetto: I've generated a very light package for jpoker using cdbs http://jpoker.aminche.com/jpoker-1.0.0/debian/
<persia> stani: That makes it easier.  SRU only one step back isn't nearly as painful.
<stani> persia: or maybe if someone has 2.8 and 2.6 installed at feisty
<persia> stani: Hrm.  Maybe that needs a test.  2.8 was available, but not the system default version.
<stani> persia: but the bug reports started showering as soon as gutsy was released
<stani> persia: i cleaned up launchpad as there were 19 bugs for the same issue
<stani> persia: all for gutsy
<persia> heh.  People should really check for duplicates :)
<stani> persia: when cleaning all these bugs, i thought this will take me more time than fixing it
<stani> persia: ... and such a small patch is a good opportunity to learn ;-)
<persia> stani: Absolutely :)
<ScottK> persia: Python syntax looks sane.
<persia> ScottK: And it's SRU-worthy?
<stani> persia: spe 0.8.4.b involves more, for example also updating wxglade
<ScottK> Yes.
<stani> persia: what is SRU?
<bmk789> persia: i think this is the last problem "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency ${libwxgtk2.8-0: Depends}"
<persia> stani: Stable Release Update.
<ScottK> persia: Crashes are always SRU worthy.
<persia> bmk789: You probably want shlibs:depends and misc:depends instead :)
<joumetal> bug 102328  what do you think?
<persia> joumetal: context?
<joumetal> persia packaging calculate.
<bmk789> it said that problem about them too so i took them out
<ScottK> persia: I'm pretty sure the packaging system can do the right thing so that the please install ... part of the patch isn't needed.
<POX_> ScottK, stani: you want something like "Conflicts: python-wxgtk2.8" in Python, or what?
<stani> persia & scott: is there a motu dictionary for terms like MoM, Dad, SRU, ... now I know them but a lookup with all abbrevations in one place would be nice
<persia> stani: OK.  Now that we have confirmation that it's a bug that needs fixing, and it will need to get backported, so let's trim the patch, and make some debdiffs.
<persia> !MoM
<stani> POX_: no
<ScottK> POX_: It turns out it's more a problem of his app using the wrong one.
<ScottK> If both are installed.
<imbrandon> stani, not afaik
<persia> POX_: That really wouldn't work: it's the default system wxpython
<stani> POX_: you can have installed wxpython2.8 and 2.6 at the same time it doesn't matter
<POX_> yaeh, hopefully wx2.8 will never be uploaded to Debian
<stani> imbrandon: would it be a good idea to start a wiki for that?
<POX_> we're waiting for 3.0
<imbrandon> stani, sure
<ScottK> POX_ meet stani.  stani meet POX_.  POX_: stani is the upstream for spe (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/i386/spe/0.8.2a+repack-1).  He plans to come see the Debian Python Applications Team.  stani: POX_ is a DD that does a lot of uploading for Debian Python Apps.
<stani> imbrandon: what would be the best place to link it from? can I do that?
<stani> POX_: nice to meet you
<POX_> stani: hi :)
<imbrandon> you can do it , and i'm not sure other than the /MOTU space, might poke dholobach
<persia> POX_: Ron is hoping to move to wx2.8 for Lenny
<POX_> nooooo
<POX_> ;)
<persia> Yes.  It's part of the master plan to kill 2.4.
<stani> POX_: what is wrong with wxpython2.8?
<persia> stani: All the interfaces changed, and half the apps don't work with wx2.8
<persia> (like yours)
<norsetto> proppy: is it in revu already?
<proppy> norsetto: mumble or jpoker ?
<norsetto> proppy: jpoker
<stani> persia: yes but on the other hand all active wxpython applications switched to 2.8 (also spe). So not providing 2.8 is holding back the new versions
<persia> stani: understood.  wx packaging in Debian is special
<POX_> stani: I heard a rumor that even upstream authors regrettet it's release ;)
<stani> there are also not so much wxpython applications in universe, there are a lot more interesting ones
<proppy> norsetto: it's only a web page for now which install correctly with apache2, it's part of a job I'm doing on rentacoder.com right now, the buyer want a debian package for the first delivery
<stani> POX_: it is true it was forced to release more early as planned because of leopard
<proppy> norsetto: but putting it in REVU is a good idea, even if the package contains nothing, the packaging is worth reviewing
<proppy> norsetto: don't you think ?
<stani> POX_: by which some of the goals are not fully implemented, but it is still is an improvement over 2.6
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: Hi again, I have fixed more things: and have uploaded the new package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=428
<POX_> stani: I'm not really using wx (as a developer and user), so I can't say
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Are lintian and linda silent now?  For both source and binary?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: not silent they throw up soem red herrings
<coNP[uni]> gpocentek: thanks
<POX_> the only wx application I use is pgadmin
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: the missing icon in menu
<POX_> and it has lots of bugs even with 2.6
<persia> POX_: Upsteam doesn't prefer 2.8, but 2.6 was getting limiting for useful new features about a year ago.  2.8 is more of a preview in some ways.
<norsetto> proppy: well, perhaps it isn't for REVU then ... but I'll be glad to look at the package if you want me to
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: and the wrong menu section : applications
<stani> POX_: well as I said there are a lot not packaged, but I can imagine on linux you prefer gtk or qt
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Got gimp?  Also, look in /usr/share/doc/menu for a list of valid sections.
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: You'll minimally want a 32x32 xpm, but having a 48x48 png as well would be ideal.
<proppy> norsetto: maybe not for REVU yet, but I'll be glad putting it on it once it has at least one fonctionnaly
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have the debian new sepc says : Applications/File Management
<norsetto> persia: its the debian menu icon
<StevenHarperUK_> 32px?
<POX_> stani: anyway, I see that ubuntu still has python-wxgtk2.6 package, why not force users to remove python-wxgtk2.8? apt-cache rdepends python-wxgtk2.8 doesn't return much
<StevenHarperUK_> small....
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Yes.  32px
<StevenHarperUK_> ok I can do that
<persia> norsetto: Is there already a PNG for the .desktop file?
<StevenHarperUK_> but its in my .install to move it to pixmaps
<StevenHarperUK_> and it whines that its not in pixmaps
<norsetto> persia: he has some icons in a subdir, I think only the debian menu one was in pixmap
<StevenHarperUK_> I have been told I HAVE to use xpm
<StevenHarperUK_> I am seeing a lot of conflicting review comments....
<StevenHarperUK_> Is the Applications/File Management - which is a new valid menu location correct?
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: I think you want all the icons for the system menu entries in pixmaps directly.  You need to use xpm for the menu file, but it looks better to also have png for the .desktop file.  The system should pick the one that looks best based on the user's resolution and bit depth.
<StevenHarperUK_> I have done that
<StevenHarperUK_> I need to make the xmp small
<StevenHarperUK_> **xpm
<bmk789> agh, what does this mean?  dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc: Depends}
<bmk789> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency ${libwxgtk2.8-0: Depends}
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: "Applications/File Managment" doesn't match what I have in /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz, but I'm not 100% sure.
<norsetto> persia: since its a gnome app, he could also install all the icons in hicolor and register with dh_icons
<StevenHarperUK_> persia : its in the spec here http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/07/msg00000.html
<persia> norsetto: dh_icons also grabs pixmaps.  I usually stuff things there unless there's a good reason to put it somewhere else, but you're right.
<POX_> bmk789: try with "${misc:Depends}" (without the space character) - I'm not sure if it helps, though
<stani> POX_: you are right, but I thought of wetting my feet in packaging and learning to do it the proper way
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: I wonder if maybe lintian doesn't know that yet :)
<POX_> stani: join PAPT, we will help you with maintaining it
<bmk789> POX_: i did without the space, i just added the space in irc
<stani> POX_: it is never nice to force people ;-)
<StevenHarperUK_> persia : like I say its full of unhelpfull red-herrings
<POX_> stani: well, sometimes it's the only way ;-P
<dfiloni> siretard: can you do the sync of keys please?
<POX_> bmk789: show me your control file
<stani> POX_: PAPT is probably Python APT? How can I join? I am fairly experienced with python & wxpython but have null packaging experience. So are you open to newcomers?
<bmk789> POX_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42241/
<POX_> stani: Python Applications Packaging Team, yes
<POX_> sure, everybody needs help at the beginning
<POX_> thats why we keep all our files in the repo - all can work on a package and improve it
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi , I am looking for reviews of my package on REVU - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=428 - I currently have 0 advocates
<POX_> stani: http://python-apps.alioth.debian.org/policy.html
<POX_> "Joining the team" is there
<POX_> bmk789: what is "${libwxgtk2.8-0:Depends}" - are you generating it somewhere in debian/rules?
<POX_> I mean, in substvars
<stani> POX_: spe has to be fixed in debian anyway, so I better join
 * persia wonders if it is possible to have a python package comply with the NEW python packaging policy and use neither of python-support or python-central
<bmk789> POX_: no its in the repos and needs to be installed for the program to run
<POX_> persia: yes it is, but it needs a little bit more work
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: any chance of you re-reviewing my package on REVU please?
<persia> POX_: Thanks.
 * norsetto knows that he has been told and ponders if persia is being too kind
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: I may stop if you keep asking, but think you probably want to look at python-support or python-central to start
<POX_> bmk789: don't you need just "libwxgtk2.8-0"
<POX_> ?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: are you suggesting I g to them channels?
<persia> bmk789: You shouldn't need that at all.  It should come for free from ${shlibs:Depends}
<POX_> bmk789: or shouldn't ${shlibs:Depends} deal with that?
<POX_> persia: :)
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: packages, not channels.  Tools for packaging python in a compliant manner the easy way.
<bmk789> i am soooo lost, but ill try it without it then
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: I almost have it all right now, restarting at this point seems silly
<POX_> bmk789: just remove ", ${libwxgtk2.8-0:Depends}" and it should work (if you have all needed dh_sh* in debian/rules)
 * POX_ bbl
<persia> bmk789: OK.  There are a few macros (like ${shlibs:Depends}) that auto-populate the dependencies for binary packages.  Sometimes these aren't enough, so you have to add some manually.  When adding manually, one just enters the package name, and doesn't try to use a shell expansion variable.
<bmk789> so i wont usually need to list dependancies like that, shlibs will take care of it?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia : im reading http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy ta for info
<stani> POX_: is #debian-python active?
<persia> stani: OFTC
<stani> persia: what does that mean?
<Hobbsee> on the oftc network
<stani> stani: what is the best way to contact daniel holbach? I'd like to start a motu dictionary.
<persia> stani: #debian-python is on the OFTC IRC network (I recommend irc.debian.org to get a nearby server).  #ubuntu-motu is on the freenode IRC network (I recommend irc.ubuntu.com to get a nearby server)
<ScottK> !oftc
<ubot3> Factoid oftc not found
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would an OFTC factoid be a good one to have?
<stani> !SRU
<ubot3> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> stani: I'd recommend starting one in MOTU/Dictionary on the wiki, and sending dholback an email (his address can be found from his launchpad page: start from https://launchpad.net/people)
<bmk781> it built! without errors! :)
<stani> persia: ok, I will do that, although now I realise that this ubot3 also works with private messages.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: perhaps, when ubotu actually comes back
<persia> bmk781: Excellent.  Now you get to play with lintian and linda to find all the bits you missed :)
<ScottK> OK
<stani> so probably it is a good idea to get all the factoids published on the net/wiki
<bmk781> ah, it installed and runs perfect, thank you persia and POX_ for all the help
<Hobbsee> blueyed: ping
<blueyed> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> blue
<Hobbsee> blueyed: in the TOS that you agreed to for PPAs, you agreed to not DDOS the servers.
<joumetal> Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qalculate-gtk/+bug/102328 What to do next?
<ubot3> Malone bug 102328 in qalculate-gtk "New upstream release available" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<zul> Hobbsee:
<zul> yesssssss..
<Hobbsee> joumetal: ah yes, i got a mail back from the debian maintainer about that
<blueyed> Hobbsee: Do you mean the OOo upload??
<Hobbsee> blueyed: all three of them.  yes.
<persia> Three!!!?!
<Hobbsee> blueyed: people have been wondering why their packages are having to wait 17+ hours, and it's because you DDOS'd the buildds.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes.  all didnt build.  check his packages page.
<blueyed> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/+builds?build_text=openoffice&build_state=all
<Hobbsee> blueyed: please be more responsible, before you get thrown out of ppas.
<Hobbsee> persia: 3 in 2 days.  quite impressive.
 * persia grumbles about the benefits of arranging for local build farms except when testing for specific issues with Soyuz buildds
<Hobbsee> well, each didnt build on one arch at least, it appears
<blueyed> Hobbsee: I just wanted to provide packages for a bug. How should I know how limited the build servers are? Only the last upload has been build btw. All others exitesd after 20-30 minutes, because of not correctly provided patches.
<imbrandon> wow Hobbsee you work on LP now? dident know you made the judgement calls on "what was toooo much" to upload to the ppa's, nor that that would be considered a DOS attack
<Hobbsee> blueyed: if you really need to keep rebuilding open office, it would be a good idea to test on your own package.
<blueyed> Hobbsee: the last i386 build failed because of too less space it appears. I'll stop it.
<persia> s/package/build farm/
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i didnt, but i've seen people yell at doko for trashing the buildds :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: and the same applies for ppa
<imbrandon> cool , but i wouldent threaten someone
<zul> suuure..
 * persia supports Hobbsee's call from an completely impartial position: it's a MOTU call, doesn't need other affiliation
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: not threatening, per se.  just saying what's likely to happen when the LP guys try to find out about it.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: and they will, because people are whining in there asking why their packages havent been built :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, no that wasent a "likely to happen" it was a threat, you might not have MENT it that way but across irc , meanings dont convey well
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, great let them make that call then
<blueyed> Hobbsee: it's bug 131526 - would be nice if someone would care about it. At least there seems to be a patch..
<ubot3> Malone bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs on errors in current gtk theme" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
<imbrandon> persia, its not our place to say whats tooo much per the TOS of an agreement we have no control over, its not a ubuntu resource its a canonical one
<zul> blueyed: have you talked to the oo developer?
<blueyed> zul: no
<persia> imbrandon: No, but it's our place to have opinions about what might be too much (and Hobbsee can't kick someone out anyway)
<zul> blueyed: then you should probably do so
<imbrandon> while i totaly agree 3 oo.o uploads might be much, whigning should be done to the LP PPA team
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: but it becomes an ubuntu issue if most people cant get tehir stuff published in reasonable timeframes, due to one person dos'ing the builds.
<persia> imbrandon: It's also our place to complain when we can't build...
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: if it was just the case of the machines having to work constantly, i wouldnt care per se - but this is relating to a whole lot of other people's work, due to the repeated dos - and i'd call that an ubuntu issue, as it's stopping ubuntu development.  wouldnt you?  :)
<imbrandon> sure, but idle threats are not cool
<persia> Hobbsee: Play Nice
<Hobbsee> wasnt threatening at all.  just mentioning the TOS, and why it migth be a bad diea.
 * persia steals LongPointyStick
<imbrandon> no no no, you said no "might" or "likely" or anything , you presented your self like you had the will and power to do so
<blueyed> zul: who do you mean? And what should I say? Please provide test packages and the upload it to Ubuntu??
<imbrandon> especialy still calling it a DOS attack ...
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: true.  on the reasonable suspicion that if i person keeps thrashing the builds indefinetly, not allowing others access, that they will get stopped.
<persia> imbrandon: Other's service ha been denied (although it's not a deliberate attack)
<blueyed> Hobbsee: please take a look at my PPA logs and how long I've really DOSed the servers! It's really not that bad IMHO
<blueyed> https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/+builds?build_text=openoffice&build_state=all
<jdong> is there someone I can do favors for that would make a build go faster?
<imbrandon> the TOS also dosent state a timeframe on service , so no service was denied, just delayed in "your eyes" not even the team responisable
<blueyed> Hobbsee: I get your point though, of course.
<Hobbsee> jdong: i'm not (currently) a buildd admin
<Hobbsee> blueyed: cool :)
<persia> blueyed: True.  The first ones were quick.  Still, good to try to build elsewhere on a couple arches first.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you can see the buildtimes though without being an admin
<Hobbsee> persia: or at least one arch :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: granted.
<imbrandon> and one arch was 6 hours, not 17+
<blueyed> persia: yes. Apparently I'll have to do the i386 build now somewhere else, because the PPAs can't handle it space-wise it seems.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: the backlog quoted was 17 hours.
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have made all the changes to the control and rules files to comply with pycentral
<Hobbsee> based on a guy in #launchpad, anyway.
<jdong> lamont: you're a buildd admin, right? Is there anything I can do to convince you to fasttrack https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/2.5.0.4-1ubuntu1/+build/425769? It's a critical step towards fixing bug 57875 and has been sitting in queue for days
<ubot3> Malone bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
 * norsetto hugs imbrandon and Hobbsee "together"
<persia> blueyed: You might ask here (when it gets a little quieter).  There are a few people with spare cycles on buildds around, although OOo is *huge*
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, Build started 12 hours ago on samarium (xen-i386) and finished 5 hours ago taking 6 hours 30 minutes
<imbrandon> 6 hours
<stani> offtopic: the ppa session in ubuntu-classroom seems to be canceled as the speaker didn't show up. Nobody here who could stand in?
<norsetto> stani: not for the life of me
<Hobbsee> stani: who's supposed to be there?
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Good.  I'm still reviewing the last one, and will skip the next one (remember my note about getting reviews from lots of different people).
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: yes I do, im about to bug hobbsee:p
<Hobbsee> don't look at me, i'm not supposed to do REVU stuff.
<hellboy195> Shouldn't it now be possible to remove packages from the ppa in the new launchpad version? I haven't discovered it yet :(
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Better not to bug anyone.  Just ask for review (no more than once a day unless you've addressed issues), and wait.  If you ask too much, people may stop reviewing.
<persia> Hobbsee: Did you get banned from REVU because of ACCEPTED?
<norsetto> persia: didn't this remember you something?
<Hobbsee> persia: banned?  no, was a choice.
<persia> norsetto: this sentence no verb
<norsetto> persia: duh?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: ok
<Hobbsee> persia: possible conflict of interests, as it were.
<persia> Hobbsee: Exactly.  Let's call it a ban - I'll stick it on an agenda if you like :)  Better to have you officially disallowed then possibly perceived as shirking.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> well, i'm not supposed to accept new stuff (yet, i think( anyway
 * norsetto looks up shirking
<persia> Hobbsee: That7s a technical issue.
 * persia wishes that there was a useful keymap for this keyboard
 * norsetto notes that this VERY usefull word
 * norsetto wishes his cat would let go of his left hand
<stani> hobbsee: thanks for stepping up
<Hobbsee> stani: no problem
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: 428 commented.
<Hobbsee> stani: a woeful attempt at an ad-hoc session, i'm afraid :(
<stani> hobbsee: I think most people left already
<Hobbsee> stani: yeah, i expect so
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: thanks
<stani> hobbsee: especially after: (17:22:05) mrevell: FayZee_: I'm going to set it as cancelled. Unfortunately, I can't find the person who was due to give it.
<Hobbsee> yay...
<StevenHarperUK_> persia : The packaging doesnât appear to comply with the New Python Packaging Policy,- what does t hat mean : are ther any details?
<stani> ScottK, persia & POX_: so how do I go from here with spe. Through PAPT?
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: I thought you already fixed that.
<StevenHarperUK_> in the next one yes :p
<persia> stani: PAPT will get your fix into Debian, and be a good long term solution.  It's probably also the best way to solve the issue for future Ubuntu releases.  For gutsy, we'll need to do an SRU.
<stani> persia: so for PAPT I will do spe 0.8.4.b as there is no problem (wxpython2.8), only on ubuntu gutsy there is a need for a SRU
<persia> stani: So, the first step is to make sure about whether it happens in Feisty if the user installs wxpython2.8
<stani> so hopefull spe 0.8.4.b will be in Hardy
<stani> I can check that right now
<jdong> stani: are you the stani of spe?
<jdong> or is that a different one?
<persia> stani: Right.  Working with PAPT will be the best way to do that.  For the short patch for the older releases, we need to do a little more manual work.
<stani> jdong: no it is me, why?
<jdong> stani: cool, nice to meet you :)
<jdong> I like spe a lot
<stani> ah thanks, I thought everyone here uses vim
<persia> jdong: As you're a user, would you mind helping stani with an SRU?
<norsetto> * cough *
<stani> jdong: are you a motu?
<jdong> persia: I'm extremely busy today :(
<jdong> stani: not yet, hope to be soon
<stani> jdong: ok, good luck
<persia> jdong: No problems :)
<jdong> ok, now, back to reviewing for this math exam in 2 hours
<jdong> *hugs all*
 * persia hands norsetto a lozenge
<norsetto> persia: thx
<stani> jdong: it doesn't need to be today. Do you have time in the near future?
<jdong> stani: this weekend is probably good
<stani> jdong: that is fast enough
<stani> jdong: please send me an email, I am sure you know how to reach me
<jdong> stani: sure thing :)
<stani> jdong: it is just a very small fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spe/+bug/124896 Copy it and look at it in the weekend.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124896 in spe "[GUTSY] spe crashed with AttributeError in LoadFile()" [High,Confirmed]
<jdong> stani: ok, logged, I'll take a look when I get time
<persia> jdong: stani: Feel free to ping me if you don't get a sponsor quickly
<stani> persia: thanks!
<stani> jdong: I like to learn to process as well, so you can let me do the work and play the boss ;-)
<norsetto> stani: you may want to look at this for the time being: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
<stani> norsetto: thanks
<stani> persia: I've sent an email to daniel holbach about the dictionary together with another idea how to make the step to motu more easy for python developers
<persia> stani: Great.
<stani> persia: I hope the jabber address on launchpad works
<persia> stani: It should.
<stani> persia: it got back
<stani> persia: I tried the same address but with ubuntu.com after the @
<stani> persia: let's see if that works
<stani> persia: but if he is the contact person for motu, a working email address on launchpad would be nice
<persia> stani: Yeah, well.  Some things are less ideal than others.  Perhaps you could send your proposal to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c, and the MOTUs will discuss generally.
<lamont> jdong: what do you mean? it's already built...
<norsetto> stani: what about: print 'You need to install python-wxgtk%s to run SPE.\n'%WX_VERSION
<norsetto> stani: and I would say: wxversion.select(WX_VERSION) too?
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have completed all the bits you requested/highlighted on you last review, there is a new package to review (at your leisure) thanks persia
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: No.  As I said before, I won't review it again.  You need different opinions to have the best package.
<minghua> persia: Do you uses scim?
<stani> norsetto: wxversion.select(WX_VERSION): I agree
<StevenHarperUK_> persia: ok ill ask about  thanks thou
<persia> minghua: Yes.
<minghua> persia: I assume you uses deadkeys, too?
<persia> minghua: No.  I have 106 keys.  I don't need deadkeys.
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi, I am looking for some reviews from MOTU's of my package on REVU, it currently has no Advocates: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=431
<stani> norsetto: 'You need to install python-wxgtk%s to run SPE.\n'%WX_VERSION: well the program is called wxpython, but the package is called python-wxgtk, that is why I put the (sudo apt-get install python-wxgtk2.6). This should not be necessary as apt takes care of it. For me it doesn't matter so much. But I always speak about wxpython, not about python-wxgtk. What do you think is the best?
<minghua> persia: Ah.  So Portuguese doesn't use much diacritic?  Thanks... I am looking for someone who uses both scim and deadkeys.
<norsetto> stani: I did use the package name on purpose, but mind you that this would only be meaningful in a debian based system
<persia> minghua: I generally only type in English and Japanese.  Portuguese uses lots of diacritics.
<minghua> persia: I see.  Thanks.
<stani> norsetto: I'll update the patch with your suggestion. I prefer to keep the two names, as in my view it better informs the user.
<norsetto> stani: Ok, but please do not suggest sudo apt-get, leave it to the user how to install
<persia> stani: norsetto: ScottK mentioned some time ago that the directions on how to install should be dropped.  It's already guaranteed by the dependencies, so the condition should never occur.  Further, it's not part of the minimal patch for the SRU.
<norsetto> stani: something like: SPE needs wxPython v%s to run; please install the python-wxgtk%s package (just a proposal)
<norsetto> persia: yes, there should not be a direction on how to install
<persia> norsetto: Right.  So the change under discussion should be left as distributed in feisty and gutsy: no patch required (and no change)
<norsetto> stani: (just a proposal) is not part of the proposal of course :-)
<stani> norsetto: persia: ok, i didn't know about that
<norsetto> persia: what do you mean no change? I thought we'd agreed to propose an sru for this on gutsy?
<persia> norsetto: Right, but the change should only be to force python 2.6, not to change the comment about installing wxpython.
<stani> persia: in my patch I also changed the comment
<stani> persia: that is on what norsetto reacted
<norsetto> persia: the chnage is needed to the source code, unless you make the two packages conflict and 2.6 takes precedence, which I don't think is what we want
<persia> stani: Right.  You'll want to revert the comment change for the minimal patch.
<persia> norsetto: Yes, but only the runtime version detection change is required: not the comment change.
<norsetto> persia: well, the comment as it is now must be changed, so, why not make it right?
<stani> persia: norsetto: the comment will never be displayed indeed as apt takes care of it
<persia> (it already depends on wxpython2.6, so the user will never see that message on an Ubuntu system)
<stani> norsetto: the dependency is right, spe package depends only on 2.6
<norsetto> persia, stani: ok, lets go for the minimal patch then, I agree
<persia> norsetto: If the comment could ever be shown, I'd agree with you :)
<norsetto> persia: well, you never know :-/
<persia> norsetto: Yeah, well, if someone breaks apt they get to keep both pieces.
<stani> persia: norsetto: some news, the bug also affects feisty if wxpython2.6 and 2.8 are installed
<minghua> we have wxpython 2.8 in feisty?
<stani> the package python-wxversion has the selection machinism
<persia> stani: Then we get to make two SRUs.  It won't affect edgy (no wx2.8)
<persia> minghua: Yes, but it was not the default.  It's default for gutsy.
<stani> persia: yes
<minghua> I see.  I always thought otherwise.
<minghua> python-wxgtk2.8 | 2.8.1.1-0ubuntu4 | feisty/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
<minghua> Should have checked myself. :-P
<persia> minghua: There you go.  Chroots are useful :)
<stani> minghua: that is why i like ubuntu, it has updated packages ;-)
<minghua> persia: Nah, that's just rmadison output.
<norsetto> rmadison rulez
<minghua> stani: Well, on WxWidgets front I agree, but generally Debian unstable has roughly the same new version as Ubuntu (I assume you are comparing with Debian).
<stani> ok i need to, thanks for all the help!
<persia> minghua: You haven't interacted much with Ron, have you?
<stani> minghua: before I worked with suse & redhat (before fedora), not debian, but that is long time ago before
<minghua> persia: Who is the Ron you are talking about?  But I assume yes, as I can't think of a Ron I've talked much with.
<persia> minghua: wx maintainer
<minghua> stani: Ah, then I wouldn't know.  My short experience with Fedora core 6 is not bad, though.
<minghua> persia: No, haven't interacted with him at all.  But reading bug reports gives me the impression that it's a blessing... :-P
<persia> minghua: Nice guy, but different
<jpatrick> I'm getting "dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address" - but I've put the MOTU address in the control file, does anyone know what's wrong?
<persia> jpatrick: Your revision string doesn't contain "ubuntu"
<persia> (e,g, 0ubuntu1)
<jpatrick> "knights (0.6-8ubuntu1)"
<norsetto> jpatrick: whats the Maintainer field in control?
<jpatrick> "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<norsetto> jpatrick: perhpas its just a tupo
<norsetto> tupo is a typo for typo
<minghua> Yeah, I was suspecting typo as well, but that line looks correct.
<jpatrick> refuses to make src pkg: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42255/
<norsetto> jpatrick, persia: perhaps its a typo before, and the parser doesn't recognise the right field?
<minghua> jpatrick: The version in your pastebin is not the same as the one you said above.
<jpatrick> minghua: yes, that's but that's what the REPORT file said I should do
<norsetto> jpatrick: yes, you should use the last ubuntu version with -v
<jpatrick> norsetto: which is what I'm doing
<norsetto> jpatrick: I assume thats a merge, and that version was the last ubuntu version
<jpatrick> yes
<minghua> jpatrick: Never mind, I read wrong and thought that's the version of your new package.  What you did is correct.
<norsetto> jpatrick: perhaps when you edited that control file some control characters, tabs, etc. are in there which are confusing the parser
<norsetto> jpatrick: I know it happens with changelog (personal experience)
 * norsetto refuses to use dch, so there
<jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42257/ - control and changelog files
<jpatrick> well, it beats me
<norsetto> jpatrick: try using -mmaintaineraddress to see what happens
<jpatrick> norsetto: same
<norsetto> with another maintainer? like norsetto@ubuntu.com?
<minghua> jpatrick: In what environment are you building?  gutsy?  hardy?
<jpatrick> gutsy
<jpatrick> norsetto: same with that too :|
<norsetto> jpatrick: with -emaintaineraddress ?
<stani> I have updated the patch for spe as minimal as possible on launchpad. Now it only changes one line. I guess this is the best.
<persia> stani: Excellent, and does it work?
<jpatrick> norsetto: exactly the same, sorry
<jpatrick> oh, damn!!
<norsetto> jpatrick: doh :-O
<jpatrick> I was editing the knights-0.6-8ubuntu1/ dir not the updated one
<jpatrick> so sorry
<norsetto> jpatrick: lol
<jpatrick> norsetto: now, it's working, thanks
<norsetto> jpatrick: de nada
<stani> persia: to be sure, I just tested on feisty, yes it works
<persia> stani: Great.  The next step is preparing a candidate revision for hardy.  It needs to get put into hardy before we can SRU.  When hardy releases, it will likely be with 0.8.4.b, but that will be after you work with PAPT.
<persia> stani: So, how much have you worked with debian-format packages?
<ScottK> persia: Maybe not as Debian doesn't have wxpython2.8
<stani> persia: not really a lot
<persia> ScottK: Still?  Ron told me he was working on it months ago.  Perhaps everyone else actually convinced him to wait to 3.0
<stani> persia: I have done my first deb package of phatch
 * ScottK is just going on what POX_ said about it.
<stani> persia: the spe package looks easy for this fix as it contains the upstream version and the patches in a diff.gz file
<stani> persia: does jdong have enough experience for this?
<persia> stani: Right.  That does make it easy to fix.  I presume you've downloaded the current source?
<stani> persia: otherwise he can guide me.
<minghua> persia: I can confirm Debian doesn't have 2.8 yet.
<stani> persia: I did apt-get source spe
<persia> stani: Yes.  jdong can help make a candidate, if you'd prefer.
<POX_> Debian has 2.6.3.2.2-1 and from what I read in many mails on debian-devel, 2.8 is very buggy
<stani> it looks like I can just copy and paste it in the diff
<POX_> and I trust maintainer, he really knows wx
<persia> minghua: Yes, the archives don't, but I don't follow the lists: if an upcoming transition plan was in place, I wouldn't know.
<stani> but i am not sure which tools i should use
<minghua> persia: Is there even a list about wxwidgets stuff?
<ScottK> stani: jdong is a reliable guide.
<POX_> stani: how about preparing a version for Debian unstable and then ask in Ubuntu sync it (via SRU or whatever will be needed)
<stani> persia: I don't prefer anyone yet, but as he is spe user... he will be more patient with me ;-)
<ScottK> POX_: His current version needs wxpython2.8
<persia> minghua: There are a couple wxwidgets lists, but they don't cover debian: I was thinking of the debian lists.  The Debian maintainer works very closely with upstream for special Debian versions, which are a little different, but tend to work very well.
<persia> stani: OK.
<stani> ScottK: That is not true
<ScottK> stani: OK. My mistake.  Sorry.
<stani> scottK: at least if you talk about spe
<ScottK> I was.
 * ScottK misunderstood.
<stani> spe 0.8.4.b is compatible with 2.6 and 2.8
 * ScottK mistook will work with and must work with.
<ScottK> In that case, I withdraw the comment.
<stani> I always support two versions as I know that not every distribution ships the last one
<minghua> persia: Well, all I know about discussion of wxwidgets2.8 in Debian is Debian bug 403237 and it's duplicates.
<ubotu> Debian bug 403237 in wxwidgets2.6 "wxwidgets2.6: new stable upstream version 2.8.3" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/403237
<stani> but spe 0.8.4.b is  not released yet
<persia> Right.  So the plan for 0.8.4.b remains to work with PAPT & sync.
<ScottK> stani: I think working with jdong and persia for an SRU here and POX_ in DPAT for the new version is a very good plan.
<norsetto> yippie: Accepted: knights 0.6-8ubuntu1 (source)
<POX_> spe in Debian is orphaned so it will be easy to take over
<stani> ScottK: I agree.
<stani> POX_: Haha, yes it is my baby!
<ScottK> stani: Then talk to the upstream about releasing it ;-)
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Then it's my fault.  I need to push ecos, ctsim, and survex a little harder.  Sorry about that.
<POX_> hey, doko was previous maintainer
<POX_> and he is in the team
<stani> POX_: I am only afraid it is quite complicated, as SPE ships with wxGlade, XRCed and Winpdb
<POX_> wait, he is only in DPMT, not PAPT
<ScottK> POX_ likes complicated ...
 * POX_ doesn't like complicated ;-P
<minghua> persia: If you can push a bit for Debian's wxwidgets update, it will be very appreciated.
<stani> POX_: so upgrading SPE is upgrading all of them
<POX_> we have Winpdb in PAPT and it is maintained by bzed who will become DD soon
<stani> POX_: who is bzed?
<POX_> Bernd Zeimetz
<POX_> he really knows what is doing
<stani> POX_: I am working together with Nir (author of winpdb) on the new release of winpdb.
 * ScottK goes back in hole and tries to get some $WORK done.
<persia> minghua: I have a good handle on survex, and some ideas for ecos, but ctsim has completely crushed me.  If you have some time to help, it would be great.
<ScottK> See you.
<stani> POX_: It will probably out next week
<POX_> I will take a look at spe tomorrow, I have some pakcages to review today
<stani> POX_: previous version of winpdb might not be compatible with python2.5
<POX_> we have 1.2.2-2 now
<stani> POX_: Thanks, I am afraid spe package is not so clean.
<POX_> and 1.2.5 is in the repo (waiting for official upstream release)
<minghua> persia: Sorry, I'm afraid I won't have time.  I'm merely a user. :-P
<stani> POX_: really? 1.2.5 is beta! We just fixed an important bug two days ago.
<POX_> that's why it's still only in our repo
<stani> POX_: Anyway probably winpdb is a good package for me to study as it is quite simple.
<stani> POX_: I am more afraid of wxGlade
<POX_> I till take a look tomorrow and we'll figure something out, no worryu
<stani> POX_: Ok, in the weekend I probably won't be here. Is there another way how I can contact you if I have questions?
<POX_> piotr@debian.org
<stani> POX_: thanks
<stani> POX_: I just send you an email so I don't forget it.
<POX_> ok
<hellboy195>  hey, a stupid question. I reinstalled ubuntu and so I lost my private gpg key. I only saved the public one. Isn't it possible to recover the old one?
<minghua> hellboy195: No, unless you can recover your old ~/.gnupg directory.
<hellboy195> minghua: looks bad
<persia> hellboy195: You could try to crack your key, but unless you get extra lucky, that will likely take a very, very, very, very, very long time
<hellboy195> persia: well. I think I make a new one ;) and now I take care :D well how can I disable the old one?
<persia> hellboy195: With the revocation certificate you created with your old secret key.
<hellboy195> persia: ok thx
<hellboy195> persia: how long should the new key live? any advice?
<SWAT> perhaps the wrong channel but: where/how can I report wiki abuse?
<persia> hellboy195: I set my keys to expire after 1 year, just in case I lose both the secret key and the revocation certificate.  When the time limit approaches, I approve it for another year.
<persia> SWAT: First step is just to fix it.  Repeated violations get reported to community council (I believe)
<hellboy195> persia: ok thx
<SWAT> persia, hmmm, ok, thanks. I don't think there's a procedure for it yet
<contrast83> Is there a reason the package for startupmanager depends on Firefox?
<Kmos> contrast83: no
<zul> contrast83: use the source luke
<contrast83> heh... alright.
<Kmos> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html -> the new startupmanager 1.9.8 is at debian new
<geser> contrast83: I see now firefox in the Depends line for startupmanager
<geser> ah, startupmanager depends on yelp and yelp depends on firefox
 * persia suggests this will be reduced to xulrunner for the next release
<hellboy195> persia: so. now I have a new key. how can I save it (the private key(?)) so can not loose it again?
<zul> print it out somewhere make a backup? that kind of stuff
<dredg> --export-secret-keys and make a safe backup?
<hellboy195> ah. thx
<hellboy195> but there is something wrong. gpg --list-secret-keys  is the same than  gpg --list-public-keys
<dredg> nah. there are differences
<dredg> subtle, but they're there
<dredg> -pub   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
<dredg> +sec   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
<dredg> -sub   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
<dredg> +ssb   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
<hellboy195> ok thx
<zul> later folks
<AstralJava> Is there no such thing as #ubuntu+1 anymore, or is pidgin broken? Two times I tried to join, two times it ended up on #ubuntu.
<Nicke> AstralJava: It forwardes to #ubuntu atm, since Gutsy just was released
<Nicke> was just*
<AstralJava> Ahh... okay, thanks. Opens after the UDS?
<Nicke> (it did the same when Feisty was released).. it will probably open soon again
<Nicke> I've no idea really :)
<AstralJava> That's alright, thanks anyway. :)
<Nicke> np :)
<mruiz> ping bluekuja
<effie_jayx> is there a good glade IRC channel around
<effie_jayx> ?
 * ScottK blinks
<norsetto> scottK: do you know if the -proposed queue is accessible from LP?
<ScottK> Yes.  I think so.  What are you looking for?
<norsetto> rutilt-0ubuntu5.1
<norsetto> sorry rutilt-0.15-0ubuntu5.1
<ScottK> Not Accepted by the archive into -proposed yet, so no. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rutilt
<norsetto> ok, what I meant was the queue to get into -proposed, I guess there isn't
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Not that is generally accessible.
<norsetto> and for what you know, it is normal that a package sits there for days I guess
<rexbron> persia: I have written a manpage for genpo and homoginized the license headers on all of source files (but not the organs) and sent both upstream
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  Particularly right now while people are travelling to UDS.
<norsetto> scottk: thats right
<norsetto> scottK: I thought you were planning to be there a couple of days actually?
<ScottK> norsetto: If you ask Riddell nicely he might Accept it for you.
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes, but it's not far for me.  I'll leave Saturday night.
<norsetto> scottK:no, thx, no need for that, I can wait, its not such a popular package
<norsetto> ScottK: you going with bddebian? I though he was from somewhere there too
<ScottK> He decided not to go AFAIK.
<bddebian> Aye, I just got back from a management meeting and I have to be home for Halloween with the girls :-(
<StevenHarperUK> In my debian control file I have : XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Steven Harper <StevenHarperUK@gmail.com> : on REVU some comments say I should set the Maintainer (the main one) to MOTU : is that MOT@ubuntu.com or something else? anyone know?
<StevenHarperUK> should it be : Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: ta
<StevenHarperUK> Can someone have a look at my debian/rules file according to a review its calling dh_install twice : http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/rules
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats correct, its being called twice
<mruiz> hi all. To start with merges do I need to setup a Hardy chroot ?
<Mez> hmm, where's brandon? (holtsclaw)
<norsetto> mruiz: depends, just a pbuilder with base hardy could do
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what do I change please
<norsetto> mruiz: what are you using now, have you been using for gutsy while on feisty?
<mruiz> norsetto, I'm using Gutsy
<norsetto> mruiz: ok, so you have never used a chroot or pbuilder?
<mruiz> I used pbuilder before (I helped with some packages for Gutsy :-) )
<norsetto> mruiz: so, I guess it would be better if you stick with that; you have two options, either you dist-upgrade your gutsy pbuilder, or you create a new one for hardy
<mruiz> I prefer to create a new one :-)
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: deleting the one in install/easycrypt:: should do
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: is the other one the pycenral?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, its the default binary target, you have the same problem with dh_installman
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: so I dont need either of them?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you are not using python-central btw
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: I would delete the dh_installman call and use a manpages file instead
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you help me get it right?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: just a sec, I'm checking to see if there is some other duplicate
<StevenHarperUK> ok
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you define a mime type in your desktop file?
<mruiz> norsetto, but what about packages created with gutsy stuff? Have you ever have problems after hardy pbuilder build?
<norsetto> mruiz: sorry?
<StevenHarperUK> noretto: I dont think so http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/easycrypt.desktop
<mruiz> norsetto, I'll change packages using gutsy stuff, but I'll build them with hardy stuff.
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, in principle you could do away with the dh_desktop call, I think its called twice too
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, it isn't, so, you can leave it there if you want
<mruiz> norsetto, anyway... I'll give it a go :-)
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: for the man page its very simple, just add a manpages file with just easycrypt.1 in it; this will be installed automatically
<norsetto> mruiz: as long as you don't build, you can do what you want with the source in gutsy
<norsetto> mruiz: some utilities packages might be updated in hardy, so you may want to backport them (for instance, I had to do it with desktop-file-validate)
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I have a http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/easycrypt.1 already
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats right, what I mean is that in the manpages file you just have the text "easycrypt.1"
<StevenHarperUK> ah ta
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I dont have a manpages file
<StevenHarperUK> is it just debian/manpages
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: actually, if it is in debian, it should be "debian/easycrypt.1"
<StevenHarperUK> it is there
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, so from your source tree root, do echo "debian/easycrypt.1" > debian/manpages and that should be it
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto so no dh_install or dh_installman needed anymore
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, they are automatically called by cdbs, and use the install and manpages files as input
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what does that mean
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you may want to check man dh_install and man dh_installman for the nitty gritty
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the debian/manpages and debian/install files (or, if your package has foo1 and foo2 binary packages, your foo1.manpages, foo2.manpages etc.) are used by dh_install and dh_installman as input files
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, for instance in the install one, you specify which file(s) must go where, etc.
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: have you got patches in your package?
<StevenHarperUK> no patches it all my code Im upstream
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: then you don't need this: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
<StevenHarperUK> thanks
<norsetto> this: export DH_VERBOSE=1 is fine now since you want to know whats going on, but you may omit or comment once ready
<StevenHarperUK> ok
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you use distutils?
<mruiz> norsetto, I'll create a Hardy chroot then :-)
<norsetto> mruiz: as you wish, whatever is best for you ;-)
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: refresh that webpage, I have updated it
<StevenHarperUK> please
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, do you use distutils?
 * mruiz creating hardy chroot :-)
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I copied the rules, I honestly dont know exactly how it works
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto I use debuild to build
<LaserJock> Adri2000: ping
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, I've never done a package without distutils before, but I think you don't need this in this case: export DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pycentral
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: might be wrong though, so its better to check it
<StevenHarperUK> I have followed the new python packagin guide
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you change your modules from one python version to another, or they are the same?
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: where's that?
<geser> StevenHarperUK: distutils helps upstreams to provide an install method for the users
<norsetto> geser: he is upstream .....
<StevenHarperUK> there the same version
<geser> norsetto: I know
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: than you don't need this: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove
<norsetto> geser: ok, so just wanted him to use it ... hear hear StevenHarperUK
<StevenHarperUK> LaserJock: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the dh_pycentral call should be in binary-install
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: ah, right
<LaserJock> I was wondering if there was a new new one ;-)
<Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
<norsetto> LaserJock: its the old new one ;-)
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm confused about the pbuilder-dist bug
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you refresh that page again??
<LaserJock> Adri2000: by don't you guys just set --mirror and --other-mirror?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove is still there
<Adri2000> LaserJock: yes currently pbuilder-dist calls pbuilder with --mirror $archive and --othermirror $archive $components. that works if $components is set to main only in pbuilderrc.
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: the guide siad I have to have it
<StevenHarperUK> Sure I can remove it
<LaserJock> Adri2000: right, what's the problem with that?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: if you have modules which can't be shared between python version thats correct, but you said you don't
<StevenHarperUK> ok your right
<StevenHarperUK> refresh the page if you like
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: any reason to install in /usr/share/apps/easycrypt/?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: there is a warning saying "duplicate repository" (because we put the same repository in mirror and othermirror), and it doesn't work anymore if $COMPONENTS is not "main"
<StevenHarperUK> Yes that where the Python dbeain policy ays you put all Architecture files
<LaserJock> Adri2000: there shouldn't be a duplicate and why would you have something other than "main"
<LaserJock> it should work perfectly fine if you haven't messed around with /etc/pbuilderrc
<Adri2000> no
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto do you want me to find the webpage for that info?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: well, the bug was reported by ScottK: pbuilder-dist doesn't work with debian because it tries ubuntu components. actually it tries the components in pbuilderrc, which by default are main restricted (and maybe universe and multiverse). I gave a workaround: set $COMPONENTS to main, but that's only a workaround and not a real fix to the bug
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes please, I would like to know, because I thought /usr/lib was more appropriate
<StevenHarperUK> /usr/lib is for architecture dependant files
<Adri2000> LaserJock: also, using --mirror and --othermirror is clearly a workaround the fact that until now it was not possible to specifix the components via the command line. now we should just use --mirror and --components
<LaserJock> Adri2000: it doesn't work for Debian pbuilders or on Debian systems
<StevenHarperUK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-programs.html#s-current_version_progs
<Adri2000> s/specifix/specify/
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, all python packages I have seen had them in /usr/lib, but I can very well be wrong
<StevenHarperUK> These modules should be installed in /usr/share/module, or /usr/lib/module if the modules are architecture-dependent
<Adri2000> LaserJock: why?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: that was a question
<LaserJock> I'm using my scripts just fine on both Debian machines and for Debian pbuilders
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: after doing this im gunna be almost be ready to review other peeps packages
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: that would be good
<Adri2000> LaserJock: bigon's patch makes it work with both debian and ubuntu...
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: there isn't much info on Python packaging
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm just saying, it seems straightforward to make it work both for Debian and on Debian
<LaserJock> Adri2000: so I don't get why you guys are having such a problem
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, and on top of that dh_pycentral is telling me /usr/lib/package and /usr/share/package are standard locations
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: and the python policy says /usr/lib/pythonX.Y
<bddebian> Later gang
<Adri2000> LaserJock: take a clean install of gutsy, install pbuilder and u-dev-tools, pbuilder-dist sid create will fail
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: Its very confusing finding documentation that agree's I have had a very frustrating time getting this far, but it looks like im ther now
<LaserJock> Adri2000: I know, but I don't know why it's been messed up
<LaserJock> Adri2000: you just set --mirror
<Adri2000> with --mirror you can't tell which components you want. that why until now we are using --othermirror
<LaserJock> so?
<Adri2000> because with --othermirror you can specify the components
<Adri2000> now that we have pbuilder --components, let's use it
<LaserJock> you don't need to specificy the components, it's always Main
<LaserJock> well, if it's broken then it's no use ;-)
<Adri2000> it's main restricted (universe multiverse) or main (contrib non-free)
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, if you don't specify the path, since you use pycentral I think they will be installed in /usr/share/pycentral, so that should be ok
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: in that case you don't need to specify the path to dh_pycentral
<Adri2000> LaserJock: do you agree that using --mirror and --othermirror is not logical? we use only one repo (the official one). bigon's patch is only to make pbuilder-dist work in anycase, and to remove that --othermirror workaround. there is really no problem with that patch, except that it won't be easily backportable, but that's not a good reason imo
<imbrandon> wow , the MOTU Q&A is quiet .......
<imbrandon> .... hears birds chirp .....
<ajmitch> there's a Q&A session?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: well, I think --mirror and --other-mirror is fine
<LaserJock> you're just adding more deb lines, like in sources.list
<LaserJock> I can do one line for each component if I want
<LaserJock> but I need to at least have main
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, thats confirmed by the policy "The location of the private modules is determined automatically by pycentral."
<Adri2000> LaserJock: it adds two *identical* lines in sources.list, that's not very clean, and you get warnings when you update the chroot
<LaserJock> why are they identical??
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yes as part of OpenWeek, i'm running it with LaserJock and geser but is very very dead
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: but then how do I call it with a /usr/bin/easycrypt ???
<LaserJock> with --mirror you're saying "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main"
<Adri2000> no
<Adri2000> it's --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<LaserJock> but that's the effect
<Adri2000> and for the components it uses $COMPOENTS from pbuilderrc
<Adri2000> +P
<LaserJock> so don't screw around with $COMPONENTS
<Adri2000> so we don't support changing conf files?
<Adri2000> imagine someone uses pbuilder-dist for some things but also uses directly pbuilder, he will want to config his pbuilderrc as he wants for that
<Adri2000> pbuilder-dist should still work correctly
<LaserJock> I don't think there's an easy way to do that is my point
<LaserJock> the whole point of the script was so that you *never* have to touch pbuilderrc
<Adri2000> it's not necessary, but you should still be able to
<LaserJock> well, these scripts are a hack in the first palce
<LaserJock> *place
<LaserJock> you can do everything without them too
<Adri2000> sure, but we include it in the archive, so it should work at least
<Adri2000> and the easy way to do that is to use pbuilder --components
<bigon> +1
<Adri2000> I wrote the pbuilder patch which adds this option, only to fix that pbuilder-dist bug
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: whats that, your wrapper script?
<LaserJock> well, tbh I think you're creating much more work than needs to be done
<StevenHarperUK> Yup
<LaserJock> but I tend to just keep it simple
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh does anyone know if the PPA builder is very behind..... did that openoffice build really create a huge backlog?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, let me check some packages, but I think its either /usr/share/pycentral or /usr/share/easycrypt
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: openoffice takes 12+hrs to build I think
<StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I would prefer if I passed it the path, the guide does say your allowed to
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, its should be /usr/share/easycrypt
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: let pycentral handle it for you
<StevenHarperUK> That sound like a recipe for diaster
<StevenHarperUK> **disaster
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: quote the contrary, it may well save you some trouble later on
<StevenHarperUK> But if I let it choose the final location, then my wrapper script will break
<StevenHarperUK> if it ever changes
<LaserJock> Adri2000: can you verify that --mirror + --other-mirror will work?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, I wouldn't be worried by that, it may well be the contrary, that /usr/share/apps its deprecated
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: lets have a look at control now
<LaserJock> the essential problem that I see with pbuilder-dist is that it is a giant workaround
<StevenHarperUK> I would prefer to manually place it there thou
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: even manually /usr/share/easycrypt its still the best place, so, what are you gaining?
<StevenHarperUK> im gaining  that it will ALWAYS be there and my wrapper and desktop and menuitems will work
<StevenHarperUK> If pycenral moves it to a new location then it all breaks
<Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror + --other-mirror will work only if $COMPONENTS==main, and will work with warnings
<LaserJock> ok, so
<LaserJock> now what happens when you use $COMPONENTS+--mirror?
<norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, you have to trust the tools we make available, if you don't, than there isn't much we can do for you
<Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror $ARCHIVE --components $COMPONENTS ? everything works perfectly
<Adri2000> that's what we want to do
<StevenHarperUK> hehe ok ill do it : just cause it makes me feel sad that you think I dont trust you
<LaserJock> Adri2000: ok, so what's the bug?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: ScottK doesn't want it because --components is only available in the latest pbuilder, so it will make u-dev-tools not easily backportable
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> why don't we have a dep on the right version of pbuilder for the current packages
<LaserJock> and then just backport scripts to the older packages
<Adri2000> I think u-dev-tools only recommends or suggests pbuilder
<LaserJock> well, whatever
<LaserJock> A note would work
<LaserJock> I just don't think it's worth a ton of effort
<LaserJock> you could have pbuilder-dist give an error message perhaps
<LaserJock> or check what version of pbuilder and change behavior accordingly
<Adri2000> or do not backport u-dev-tools... or backport it with pbuilder...
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> personally I thought --mirror --other-mirror was just fine
<norsetto> g'night all
<LaserJock> heh, I just get a weird feeling when people start automating packaging
<LaserJock> I guess I'm just not geeky enough ;-)
<crimsun_> err, you've been "automating packaging" for quite some time...
<LaserJock> yes and no
<LaserJock> of course I've been using automation, debuild, debhelper, etc.
<LaserJock> but on the other hand I don't script changelogs, rules, or bug reports
<crimsun_> a fairly narrow view IMNSHO
<crimsun_> PPA, Packaging Guide, etc., are all forms of "automating packaging"
<ajmitch> you don't?
<LaserJock> all right fine
<LaserJock> ;-)
 * ajmitch has changelog manglers & all
<LaserJock> it just seems like there should be some threshold of "this needs real eyeballs"
<ajmitch> certainly
<LaserJock> no, I've never touched changelog, rules, or bug reports with a script
<ajmitch> requestsync? :)
<LaserJock> never used it
<ajmitch> oh my
<LaserJock> never used reportbug automatically either
<crimsun_> pfft, that's for wussies.  I'd much rather plop in non-eyeballed apt-get.org sources anyhow!
<ajmitch> ^5 crimsun_
<LaserJock> I *have* done 1 control.in though
<LaserJock> that's the only thing I've scripted I think
<LaserJock> I've always created dpatch patches manually :/
<LaserJock> at some point I gotta figure I'm just being inefficient
<LaserJock> which is why I don't upload much
<LaserJock> I would guess I average something like 30min-1hr per upload
 * ajmitch averages 2-3 months per upload
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well actually working on them
<LaserJock> I'm guessing you have a lot of in-between time ;-)
<ajmitch> a bit, yes
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You've never even used dch?
<LaserJock> ahhhh
<LaserJock> you got me there
<LaserJock> although I don't use it a ton
<ajmitch> you never use cdbs? :)
<ajmitch> or debhelper, for that matter
<LaserJock> well, I say that I used automated tools
<LaserJock> *said
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Do you know of any changes to the LP release process? I've had some of my bugs milestoned to 1.1.10 yesterday, but they're only High, so that seems useless...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> newly milestoned?
<Fujitsu> Yeah, and deliberately (ie. originally 1.1.11 soon after I filed them, but somebody came along and changed to 1.1.10)
<LaserJock> I did see a few that were High and I wondered why they weren't Critical as it sounded like they were going to be cherry picked
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> I wonder if they've now worked a point-release sort of thing into their schedule.
<Fujitsu> That would make sense, considering how much they break.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'll have to ask kiko about it
<Fujitsu> Even brand new features not working. It's incredible.
<LaserJock> maybe they need a 6-month release schedule ;-)
<Fujitsu> I guess it would help if they had testing, but that relies on no DB schema changes, so edge can update.
<jdong> Anyone interested in sponsoring an Azureus upload into Hardy for me?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-27
<crimsun_> jdong: "interested" may be ... harsh :-)
<jdong> crimsun_! long time no see!
<crimsun_> hi
<jdong> http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu2.dsc
<Fujitsu> jdong: Didn't you just upload it a couple of days back?
<jdong> tested in pbuilder and so on
<crimsun_> I'll be up at Lincoln Labs visiting colleages soon
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, minor fix (launcher feature) needed
<jdong> crimsun_: awesome, so you're gonna be wearing one of those huge red TEMPORARY VISITOR badges? :)
<Fujitsu> Does it actually work now?
<jdong> Fujitsu: yep
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<jdong> Fujitsu: currently there's a gutsy bug with icedtea-java7 where amd64 crashes
<jdong> Fujitsu: but that's an icedtea problem nad I'm looking at a fix right now
<Fujitsu> It's now actually based on Debian? Sounds like what I'm trying to do to mplayer, though worse.
<jdong> Fujitsu: yeah, our debdiff from Debian is < 10 lines
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for another review on REVU, I have made all the changes requested in my last review : I have no advocates so far : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<Fujitsu> Good, good.
<crimsun_> jdong: something like that
 * Fujitsu ponders upgrading to Hardy some time today.
<jdong> Fujitsu: as soon as we get this SRU to Gutsy over with, then I'll move onto getting 3.0.3.4 into Hardy :)
<crimsun_> though generally when people visit my workplace, they wear those huge red visitor badges ;)
<Fujitsu> jdong: And diverging horribly from Debian again? Yay!
<jdong> Fujitsu: no, Debian has 3.0.3.4 already :)
<Fujitsu> Oh.
<jdong> Fujitsu: just their SWT 3.3 build-dep magically is missing. And I need to talk with eclipse gods (i.e. doko) to figure out what our plans of SWT 3.3 are
<LaserJock> people still use azureus? ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: people who use it have been unpacking it from tarballs...
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I read about that somewhere.
<montgoej> Does anyone know why iceweasel has no installation candidate? it leaves iceweasel-torbutton with a broken dependency so it's uninstallable
<jdong> LaserJock: which is why we need our packaging to work
<Fujitsu> jdong: Worked out how you're going to get it back to Feisty yet?
<jdong> Fujitsu: not yet.... that's on a side burner for now...
<Fujitsu> OK.
<jdong> Fujitsu: since you've asked the most questions,w ould you care to upload? :D
<LaserJock> montgoej: because we have firefox?
<Fujitsu> montgoej: We don't have iceweasel in Ubuntu, and that is a known-broken package.
<montgoej> ok, just making sure
<Fujitsu> jdong: Sure, once I check the debdiff.
<jdong> Fujitsu: sounds good! *hug*
<montgoej> I just saw all the iceweasel-related packages and noticed that they couldn't be installed
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: you reviewing packages on REVU anymore?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Looks sane, I'll upload it shortly.
<Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: I've not reviewed more than a few before, and not recently.
 * Fujitsu hides.
<StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: wuss :p
<crimsun_> well, in his defense, he has dealt with azureus for a while.  That's enough to scar sane people.
<Fujitsu> I need to run off for about 20 minutes now, I'll upload when I get back, hopefully after it has built.
<Fujitsu> I looked at merging it a couple of times... I'll never recover from that.
<StevenHarperUK> Wow bet Azureus is evil to package
<LaserJock> man I hate email and web browsers
<crimsun_> true, give me the raw hex anyday!
<LaserJock> maybe my laptop just stinks
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ping
<jdong> Fujitsu: merci beaucoup!
<_16aR_> Hello
<_16aR_> Has someone a link to a debian/watch file usage ? And how it works ? (does it work with .zip etc...)
<ion_> man uscan, and now read the topic, please.
<ion_> Sorry! Please ignore that.
<ion_> I thought this was #ubuntu-devel.
<_16aR_> ion_: was it for me ?
<ion_> man uscan, please :-)
<_16aR_> yes, i'm already reading it
<_16aR_> thanks
<ion_> I donât think zip files are supported, since the orig.tar.gz must be, well, tar.gz :-)
<_16aR_> 1 point :p
<_16aR_> but a upstream package shouldn't be named orig.tar.gz, and so it could be in another format too, no ?
<ion_> Theyâd have to be converted (some also put the original zip file inside a tarball and use e.g. cdbs or their own rules to unpack it on build).
<Amaranth> LaserJock: pong
<Fujitsu> jdong: What did you do to it? It runs at an almost reasonable speed! (though is asking me to update...)
<jdong> Fujitsu: magical jdong sauce ;-)
<jdong> Fujitsu: and yeah, the stupid updater wants to update itself, THEN use itself to update itself
<LaserJock> Amaranth: alacarte seems to really hog CPU and is very difficult to check/uncheck more than one menu item in arow
<jdong> Fujitsu: -EUPSTREAMRETARDEDNESS
<LaserJock> Amaranth: is that "normal"
<jdong> LaserJock: I think you spelled "Is written in Python" in correctly.
 * jdong ducks
<Amaranth> LaserJock: it shouldn't chew CPU but the check/uncheck thing is 'normal'
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I've been meaning to add a speed hack in there but I've also been rewriting it in vala on the side
<Amaranth> If vala had a libxml2 binding or something I'd be done already
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I installed KDE and it dumped a tone of items in Other
<LaserJock> it's seriously gonna take 5-10 minutes to clean it up
<Amaranth> yeah, it's _awesome_ like that
<Amaranth> just hide the entire Other menu
<LaserJock> except other usefull stuff ends up in Other :(
<Amaranth> so copy it elsewhere :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: uploaded
<jdong> Fujitsu: thanks
<gnomefreak> any motus around that can look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=438
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun_> 'lo barry
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_
<crimsun_> eek, I had forgotten what a behemoth iceape is
<bddebian> heh
<gnomefreak> crimsun_: it is huge :(
<gnomefreak> wait for xulrunner+iceape :(
<LaserJock> I hope we can really use xulrunner soon
<ion_> Indeed
<LaserJock> dang it, my laptop won't stay on
<LaserJock> must've overheated it or something
<jdong> LaserJock: try threatening it
<jdong> LaserJock: place a Vista Home Basic DVD in the CD tray.
<jdong> it won't DARe turn off
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I was mid installation too
<zul> saying dag nab it might help ;)
<LaserJock> hopefully it didn't corupt the dpkg cache
<jdong> LaserJock: might wanna give it some ACPI T-state throttling love next time?
<LaserJock> jdong: how do I do that?
<jdong> LaserJock: /proc/acpi/processor/CPU[0-9]/throttling
<LaserJock> I don't think my proc does throttling
<jdong> LaserJock: it lists all available states, should be like "echo T3 > throttling" to set one
<jdong> LaserJock: most ACPI capable CPU's do throttling (not all do CPU frequency scaling)
<jdong> LaserJock: throttling just forces the CPU to sleep X% of the time
<LaserJock> ah
<jdong> LaserJock: so remember, 0% is least throttled, 87% is almost braindead :)
<LaserJock> well, the stupid thing is already slow, but maybe that might help
<jdong> great for reducing heat
<LaserJock> I was hoping winter would help ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: I use bottles of compressed air for that ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: hold upside down and spray, propellant comes out in solid form
<jdong> LaserJock: also very entertaining for flash-freezing annoying insects.
<LaserJock> jdong: /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0$ cat throttling
<LaserJock> <not supported>
<jdong> LaserJock: shucks
<jdong> LaserJock: well, periodically ctrl+z dpkg and let the computer rest?
<jdong> ROFL
<jdong> human throttling governor
<LaserJock> yeah, one of my more brilliant purcheses
<jdong> LaserJock: or use the wad-of-propellant idea :)
<jdong> just make sure no earth hippies are around
<LaserJock> haha
<jdong> we used that all the time in robotics, to flash-cool overdriven motors
<jdong> best stuff ever. swiss army knife in a can
 * jdong shakes fists at bulletprooof X
<jdong> diagnosticproof X is more like it
<jdong> edit xorg.conf for 10 minutes, then figure out it's reading xorg.conf.failsafe
<bddebian> Grr, damnit.  What option to diff creates that Index: foo/bar/baz.c stuff?
<bddebian> I usually use -urN
<bmk789> hey crimsun_
<blueyed> bddebian: AFAIK the Index: stuff comes from e.g. "cvs diff"
<bddebian> hrm
<s1024kb> Good morning everyone
<s1024kb> It's 10:06 here in China
 * Hobbsee waves
<Hobbsee> wow, people really must hate me.
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee.  It's super quiet tonight
<persia> Good afternoon Hobbsee (I'm just slow, rather than filled with hatred :)  )
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ahh.  probably driven them all away
<Hobbsee> persia: fair enough
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ping
<bddebian> Hey since you're here, I'm in a quandry.  I'm working on the games team packages and kxl had config.{sub,guess} that were out of date so I copied them in.  Now I just realized that they were patching them.  You think I should revert what I did or take those out of the patch?
<persia> bddebian: I'd recommend you drop the patches, and copy them in configure:  If the build breaks, other files should be adjusted: not those.
<Hobbsee> pass.  i tend to let them just regenerate
<minghua> !weekend | Hobbsee
<ubotu> Hobbsee: It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<minghua> Hobbsee: The same applies to love. :-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: how could you possibly suggest that people hate you?
<slangasek> minghua: Ubuntu has paid lovers?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hi!
<bddebian> Yeah, it's me they all hate :-)
 * LaserJock hugs Hobbsee 
 * bddebian spreads love all over #debian-devel
<LaserJock> bddebian: designated hatee? ;-)
<minghua> slangasek: Not that I know of... But who knows?
 * ajmitch hugs the Hobbsee 
<bddebian> slangasek: You have thoughts on my question above?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh. Heya
<Hobbsee> minghua: ahhh
<slangasek> bddebian: what question?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh, i dont know.  i just hear poeple bitching about me wanting change :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: bitter about work again? :)
<slangasek> bddebian: er.  someone was patching config.{guess,sub}? DIE
<bddebian> Hobbsee: You are just becoming grumpy like the rest of us ;-P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: apparently it's MOTU's job to impose rules which would be more done for kids, isntead of making them grow up.
<bddebian> slangasek: Well that was my thought but I never know how much hatcheting to do without getting bitched at
<ajmitch> ah, I see...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: which, oddly enough, i have rather large objections with :)
<ajmitch> which rules are these?
<slangasek> bddebian: anyone who's forking config.{guess,sub} should have their head examined.  But are you sure it's not a case that they're "patching" them with a newer upstream version?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh, just various ones.  test before upload, don't upload openoffice to the buildds repeatedly.  dont ask for reviews every 20 mins.  check *all* ubuntu changelog entries to see if the changes are still required when merging/syncing.
<ajmitch> right
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: those are some ones from the last couple of days :)
<ajmitch> common sense stuff, you mean
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: exactly.  which people don't seem to have.
<Hobbsee> or choose not to use.
<ajmitch> uploading openoffice would be painful in itself
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: 3 times to a ppa is special, i thought.  and then i get bitched at for making a stand for it, when i'm not a LP dev.
<ajmitch> ah much as we'd love LP to have infinite resources for building & all
<bddebian> slangasek: Well that is essentially what they are trying to do, yes
<Testing> /nick RAOF
<bddebian> But that's still static isn't it?
<blueyed> Hobbsee: again, I've uploaded it three times - because it failed before (syntax error with the patch). There was someone else also uploading it (once) without any patch. So altogether it got built twice..
<Hobbsee> blueyed: wasnt particularly attempting to point out names - just of recent questionable things that people had particularly done.
<Hobbsee> blueyed: btw, do you know about buildprep, which will check if your patches apply?
<persia> bddebian: Yes.  It's common for packages to have either a manual copy of the build hints, or to stick it in the clean: rule (for auto-patching each source build), both of which result in an apparently intentional patch.
<blueyed> Hobbsee: no, obviously not.. :) Does it work also for the OOo patch system?
<bddebian> You folks are making my head hurt :-)
<Hobbsee> blueyed: i'd expect so. give it a try, anyway.
 * Hobbsee looks up the rune
<Hobbsee> #check all patches apply, autoconf runs, and removes the patches again
<Hobbsee> sudo make -f debian/rules buildprep
<Hobbsee> blueyed: useful in kde packages too, where you dont want to build the entire source :)
<persia> bddebian: OK,  The build hints can be taken from upstream, taken during packaging, taken at source package build time, or taken at binary package build time.  I like the last, but all four are used for packages.
<bddebian> Aye, in the configure target I am copying them from /usr/share/misc then removing config.{sub,guess} in the clean target
<blueyed> Hobbsee: there's no buildprep target in ooo (and apt, too)
<Hobbsee> blueyed: unsure if there needs to be.  just try it.
<blueyed> Hobbsee: did so (in the apt package, which I'm currently hacking)
<blueyed> ooo is currently building anyway.
<persia> bddebian: If you're doing that, you can drop any patches to those files in diff.gz.
<LaserJock> perhaps a buildprep rule would be handy to add
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if people just didn't upload OOo period
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> or perhaps a better queue management
<LaserJock> where OOo and long jobs can run on one machine
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i've already pinned the latest upload of ooo until there are more, better changes in it.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: there are only 2 machines for ppa anyway
<LaserJock> well, of course that's a problem to start with ;-)
<Hobbsee> yeah wlel.
<LaserJock> elmo told me they had at least a dozen "community" build machines for MOTU
<bddebian> Grr, this is what I was trying to avoid, how the hell am I still getting this??:
<bddebian> W: kxl; The file config.guess contains a timestamp line that is less than 2002.
<LaserJock> so I'm not sure why they only would have 2 for PPA
 * bddebian suggests just removing PPA ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: they're probably 2 xen domains on the same server, too :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i wonder if they didnt expect them to take off so much - or if they expected people would follow the "dont dos the buildds
<Hobbsee> a little more
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: most likely, yes.
<blueyed> Hobbsee: bug 131526 might be worth to include in the next upload :) - it's confirmed to be fixed for amd64 once, based on the ppa build.
<blueyed> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/131526
<persia> bddebian: lintian isn't very good about that.  You can make it shut up with a static copy as well as the configure: change, or just ignore it as irrelevant.
<Hobbsee> blueyed: i'm not crazy enough to upload openoffice.
<bddebian> persia: OK, thanks man
<persia> bddebian: No problem.  Thanks for chasing all this so early in the cycle: I forsee a lot of syncs, and a great gaming platform for hardy.
<LaserJock> people play games on Ubuntu?!?!?!
<ajmitch> apparantly so
<LaserJock> what a waste of CPU
<LaserJock> they could be building packages
 * ajmitch puts WoW into the background so that LaserJock doesn't see it
<persia> LaserJock: Isn't that what it is designed for?  Seems a nice platform for games, and new free ones are available every six months.
<LaserJock> as a part of the vast Pbuilder@Home project ;-)
<bddebian> persia: Yeah baby.. :-)
<bddebian> heh
 * LaserJock is hardware limited
<imbrandon> http://picasaweb.google.com/holtsclawb/Holloween2007/photo#5125865068756227570    woot, "fun with the kids"
<imbrandon> LaserJock, tell me about it
<LaserJock> if I had any machines that could run games I might be tempted
<LaserJock> imbrandon: happy Nevada Day!
<imbrandon> Ubuntu Pumkin heh
<bddebian> The Witcher releases in 4 days w0000t
<imbrandon> LaserJock, bleh , lol
 * bddebian will be even more useless for Hardy when The Witcher arrives
<LaserJock> I got the day off man, I'll celebrate darn near anything for a day off
<imbrandon> UO ? lol
 * Hobbsee wonders what a day off is
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: a day when you get to spend more time working on Ubuntu than work *without* getting into trouble
<bddebian> heh
 * slangasek questions this definition :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: right.
<imbrandon> slangasek, well for you its the other way arround i guess ;)
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Damn the games team channel is lonely :'-(
 * bddebian just talks to freakin' much
 * minghua wonders why his OO.o keep using ~80% CPU.
<persia> bddebian: You could be more verbose with questions.  Complaining there, and getting solutions here makes it kind of empty :)
<imbrandon> my house is lonely too right now. everyone is asleep and i'm just gazing at my pumkin ;)
<bddebian> persia: ?
<persia> imbrandon: When the pumkin begins to gaze back, you can sleep :)
<bddebian> imbrandon: Is that what they are calling it these days? ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> damnit , i lost part of my blog db
 * imbrandon grumbles
<persia> ajmitch: I'm looking at wx2.4 again (with greater determination).  Is GNUe completely dead upstream?  Any thoughts about dropping it from Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> parts of it just don't get love upstream, other parts need packages updated
<persia> ajmitch: OK.  The current version doesn't seem to work with newer WX.  Is this something you're likely to find time for in the next couple months?  Do you think there are many users?
<ajmitch> very few users
<persia> Hmm...  If there are users, dropping seems less ideal.
<ajmitch> I can't really tell :)
<ajmitch> I'm most likely to update & orphan at same time
<persia> ajmitch: I haven't seen many recent bug reports, but that's not an ideal indication.  I'll wait on your upload, and if it still doesn't work, try to get a python person to port it, or request a drop.
<mudoch> hi all, got a question regarding the latest update. phpMyadmin dumped my config, now I'm forced to login, when I run the scrtipts/setup.php I get a user/pass propmt any ideas?
<LaserJock> geeze, can KDE possibly make *smaller* file chooser :(
<imbrandon> newer phpmyadmins dont store the pass in the config anylonger
<mudoch> actually it was 7.10 that replaced the config, now phpMyAdmin bugs me for user
<mudoch> yeah I got that some what figured out... the htpassword file show admin:* but that does not work
<mudoch> imbrandon, is this a ubuntu thing or something that can be found in the phpMyAdmin doc
<imbrandon> its a phpmyadmin practice, it was changed
<bddebian> Ah well, gnight folks
<ajmitch> night
<s1024kb> Hello everyone. Hello Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi s1024kb
<s1024kb> Hobbsee, nice to meet you again. Today i had made a little bit progress...
<Hobbsee> yay!
<coNP[uni]> Good morning MOTUs!
<imbrandon> moins coNP[uni]
<coNP[uni]> hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> heh my pumkin finaly hit planet, we'll see if it takes off like the ubuntu cakes did
<jdong> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1355/
<jdong> This... HTML... is... MADNESS
<jdong> Why does MS Office think it's neccessary to open and close like 5 nested tags per line?
<persia> jdong: It tracks format changes based on the active area of the selection at the time the format is created.  Further, it has an internal hierarchy of classes, which is never broken (fonts do not stay constant between paragraphs).
<jdong> persia: interesting...
 * jdong would still like a plaintext equiv though :)
<coNP[uni]> imbrandon: it is cool :)
<imbrandon> err did ntp.ubuntu.com go away ?
<persia> imbrandon: It resolves and pings from here...
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> persia, ...
<imbrandon> brandon@enterprise:/storage/www/imbrandon.com$ sudo ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> 27 Oct 01:51:57 ntpdate[5190]: no server suitable for synchronization found
<elmargol> I think html is broken. we have to start fram scratch :/
<imbrandon> hrm dident the canonical staff have a sysadmin channel at one time
<LaserJock> is that #canonical-sysadmin>
<imbrandon> i dident even notice untill my /var/log/mail filled to 108mb with errors
<imbrandon> i guess i should .forward that
<CyrilleB> hi there
<CyrilleB> I am trying to build a package following instruction at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<CyrilleB> but I get a very strange error http://pastebin.com/d2fd2d134
<CyrilleB> the diff and dsc are there http://cyrille.diwi.org/tmp/krita/deb/
<CyrilleB> if someone has an idea of what I am doing wrong ?
<gpocentek> CyrilleB: you don't install the CONTROL file
<gpocentek> so dpkg-deb doesn't find it
<gpocentek> dpkg*
<gpocentek> s/CONTROL/control/ BTW :)
<persia> For hardy, does each package still need to check for /var/run/ individually, or is this being guaranteed at a higher level?
<CyrilleB> gpocentek: seems to work better :) thanks, but I still have removed too much stuff from binary-arch
<gpocentek> CyrilleB: honnestly, use debhelper
<gpocentek> packaging without with is not easy (even though it's a nice way to learn)
<gpocentek> s/with /this /
<CyrilleB> gpocentek: I first try with that, but it didn't work for me, I don't remember where I failed :
<CyrilleB> :/
<gpocentek> CyrilleB: if you can build debian/rules from scratch it shouldn't be hard to use the template provided by dh_make and adapt it for your package
<gpocentek> but that's up to you :)
<CyrilleB> ok I will try again, maybe it will work better now that I understand a little bit more how to create debs package ;)
<gpocentek> yep :)
<CyrilleB> gpocentek: ah I remember now, debuild insists for the package to be signed
<gpocentek> CyrilleB: ah, that's not a problem
<gpocentek> you can use debuild -us -uc
<imbrandon> debuild -us -uc
<imbrandon> heya gpocentek
<gpocentek> hello imbrandon
<nxvl> i'm having a problem with nmap and wirelles, but i think is a driver problem, where should i report it, tu laptop team or tu MOTU/nmap ?
<persia> nxvl: You should probably report it to LP first :)
<nxvl> persia: yes, i know, but i report it as a driver problem, or as an nmap problem?
<persia> nxvl: Ah.  Depends on how it breaks.  You'll want to investigate a bit: run it in a debugger, and if the problem appears to be in kernelspace, report as a driver issue.  If the problem appears to be in userspace, report as an nmap issue.
<nxvl> persia: how do i debug it? with debug command?
 * persia points nxvl at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures and #ubuntu-bugs
<nxvl> persia: thnx
 * nxvl hugs persia 
<nxvl> did someone knows which is the SysRq key?
<imbrandon> the one that says sys req ( normaly with print screen on it too )
<persia> DktrKranz: The aolserver4 packages in Debian underwent some significant changes to not include the library and daemon in the same place.  Do you have an interest in the packages, or were you just chasing QA?
<DktrKranz> persia, I managed several merges of it, but I have no direct interest
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  From what I can tell, there's a transition underway.  If you're planning to merge the others, I wanted to ask you to also merge aolserver4 (my change can be dropped).  If not, I'll take a look at all of them later (if someone else doesn't first).
<DktrKranz> persia, I'll have a look at it, maybe askink Debian maintainer additional informations to avoid future issues
<DktrKranz> *asking
<jeromeg> anyone running kubuntu gutsy here for a little test ?
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<jpatrick> jeromeg: I could try
<DktrKranz> thanks to you for pointing that out
<imbrandon> jeromeg / jpatrick , there is also #kubuntu-testers with lots of guiney pigs
<jeromeg> jpatrick: bug 157332
<jeromeg> jpatrick: you just need to install xfce4-terminal, run it and see if there is a scroll bar
<jeromeg> thx
<CyrilleB> ok a big thanks again, I now have a package :) bye
<jeromeg> imbrandon: i'll go there
<imbrandon> jeromeg, no biggie, just thought you would reach a better target there
<imbrandon> was mostly FYI
<DktrKranz> persia, after a quick look, I tend to agree with you. There could be several packages involved, they are maintained by the same DD of aolserver4, so it will be easier to have things clear.
<persia> DktrKranz: Personally, I'd really prefer libaolserver4 to aolserver4-core, but I suspect it won't get quite that clean :)
<DktrKranz> well, since it can be confused with SONAMEs, maybe it's a pondered choice
<persia> DktrKranz: Perhaps.  On the other hand, it is providing libraries against which clients link...
<DktrKranz> it has no explicit soname, maybe ABI/API compatibility is stable enough to justify it
<DktrKranz> but frankie surely knows what he does :)
<jeromeg> does anyone knows the name of the package which enables to set up shared folders in the gnome system menu ?
<persia> jeromeg: I don't know the package, but I can give you a way to find out:
<jeromeg> persia : apt-file ?
<persia> First, find and remember the name of the control tool used in the gnome menu to enable that.
<persia> jeromeg: apt-file doesn't translate menu entries into applications :)
<jeromeg> :)
<persia> Then, grep "Name" /usr/share/applications/*, to find out if it is in an installed .desktop file.
<persia> If it's not there, take a look in /usr/share/app-install/desktop to see if it's used in any of those (which list package names).
<persia> Once you find a target file, you can use apt-file or the like to get a package name.
<jeromeg> ok thank you
<jeromeg> persia : got it thank you, gnome-system-tools
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, about projectm 1.01. it appears to work fine under amarok here :s. not sure what's wrong with their setups. also 1.0 branch is supported by upstream.
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> DarkMageZ: what driver?
<apachelogger> ati?
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, ati rv350 (ati 9600se) with the fglrx driver.
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> so projectm 1.0 is the only thing that runs on an ati chip better than on nvidia ;-)
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, have you had problems with it yourself?
<apachelogger> yep
<apachelogger> intel here
<apachelogger> also with nividia-glx
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, hmm. if it's not user error. then it'd be worth poking @ carm/structured on #projectm and see if you guys can get it sorted rather than falling back to obsolete software :(
<apachelogger> well, they know about it
<apachelogger> for now I'll just wait whether they come up with a fix
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, are you aantipop on sourceforfe?
<apachelogger> using 0. is really the last thing I'd do
<apachelogger> nah, apachelogger ;-)
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, i have a thought. gimme a sec.
<proppy> hi
<proppy> regarding http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/UnitTest++/debian/control
<proppy> are the two following line correct ?
<proppy>  Conflicts: libunittest++-dev (< 1.3.0), libunittest++0 (< 1.3.0) Replaces: libunittest++-dev (< 1.3.0), libunittest++0 (< 1.3.0)
<proppy> I want the new version of libunittest++-dev 1.3.0 to completly replace  previous version of libunittest++0 and libunittest++-dev
<Fujitsu> proppy: Is it conflicting/replacing old versions of itself (ie. same package name), or am I missing something?
<proppy> Fujitsu: yep
<Fujitsu> proppy: That's useless.
<proppy> Fujitsu: the previous source package provided binary + -dev
<persia> proppy: There's no need to conflict/replace to itself.  dpkg assumes that anyway
<proppy> Fujitsu: and the new one only -dev
<Fujitsu> proppy: Er, what? Why is this -dev containing binaries?
<Fujitsu> That sounds very very wrong.
<proppy> Fujitsu: I want the binary removed if installing the new -dev package
<persia> proppy: new non-dev should conflict/replace -dev.  -dev can be left alone.
<proppy> Fujitsu: nop It doesnt 'contain binary
<proppy> Fujitsu: only .a and .h like usual -dev package
<proppy> Fujitsu: I removed the .so and binary support
<Fujitsu> proppy: What's the -dev for compiling against now?
<proppy> persia: I should provide an empty non -dev
<proppy> Fujitsu: the new dev
<persia> proppy: Now I'm confused.
<proppy> persia: ok
<proppy> persia: let me sum it up
<proppy> unittest++ (<= 1.2.1) provided libunittest++0 and libunittest++-dev packages
<proppy> and was autotools based with a patch I provided
<proppy> the autotools support permitted to generate .a and .so file
<proppy> thus I put the .a in the -dev and the .so in the non -dev
<Fujitsu> Ew, non-lib* packages Providing libraries and their -dev?
<proppy> Fujitsu: unittest++ is the name of the source package
<Fujitsu> I don't see a unittest++ in the archive...
<Fujitsu> Ohh.
<Fujitsu> Right, that makes more sense.
<Fujitsu> Provides as in builds, OK.
<proppy> the new version unittest++ (1.3.0)
<proppy> remove my autotools patch
<proppy> and is based on the upstream provided Makefile
<proppy> which do not generate .so anymore
<persia> OK.  So there's no library to link against anymore?
<proppy> thus I decided to drop libunittest++0 instead of providing an empty one
<proppy> persia: yep no dynamic library, only a static one
<Fujitsu> Oh dear dear dear.
<persia> proppy: Right...  So what's the use case for the package?
<proppy> persia: install the package
<proppy> persia: create some code using the library and the .h
<persia> OK.  Why do I want to do this?
<proppy> persia: you can only build-depends of libunittest++-dev
<Fujitsu> So we can have static-linking security fun!
<proppy> persia: because you want to c++ test driven development
<persia> proppy: So a developer will want to compile against the static unittest library, and ship the results?  Or is this only for provate testing, and wouldn't be used for release?
<proppy> persia: that will not be used for release
<proppy> persia: this will only run test by the make check rules
<proppy> persia: before the packaging steps
<proppy> persia: to assert that there is no regression in the code
<persia> proppy: I'd suggest a unittest++ package that didn't provide either libunittest++-dev or libuntitest~~0, with the conflicts/replaces as you have them listed.  Also, you might want to see if you can put in a hook somewhere to make it extra clear that nothing compiled against the library should every be released.  Otherwise, it is as Fujitsu said: "static-linking security fun" (although this is not a definition of "fun" I typically use)
<persia> proppy: If it runs during make check, doesn't it need to have had the binary to be checked compiled against the unit testing library?
<proppy> persia: yep only your test code has to be compiled against it
<persia> proppy: The test code needs to be compiled against it, but the binaries being tested don't?
<proppy> persia: if you mean the shipped binary yes
<proppy> persia: usually you test code link against the binary, and make some function call on it, and assert some result
<persia> proppy: OK.  I write hello-test.cpp.  I then write hello.cpp to implement the spec.  I then compile & link to get hello-test and hello.  Is it true that hello-test is linked against unittest++, and hello is not?
<proppy> persia: but you can also re-compile part of your code with the test code
<proppy> yep
<proppy> hello-test: is compiled using unittest++ hello.cpp and hello-test.cpp
<proppy> hello: is compiled using hello.cpp
<proppy> hello is released
<proppy> hello-test is run with make check
<persia> If that is the case, I'd use just unittest++, but given the risk that some developer might not follow the guidelines, or might ship the test binaries, a dynamic library seems safer (with libunittest++0 and libunittest++-dev)
<proppy> persia: what about an empty libunittest++0 ?
<Fujitsu> If it must be static, splitting it like that is probably inappropriate, especially considering its purpose.
<persia> proppy: If it's not intended to provide a library against which clients are to be compiled, I think not using a lib* preface is better, and there's no need for multiple binary packages.
<proppy> persia: what about if people have libunittest++0 and libunittest++-dev already installed
<proppy> persia: they won't dist-upgrade to unittest++
<proppy> persia: automagicaly
<Fujitsu> In that case you have dummy upgrade packages.
<persia> proppy: unittest++ should versioned conflict/replace libunittest++0 and libunittest++-dev, and provides both old binary names
<Fujitsu> persia: That won't give it an upgrade path...
<persia> Fujitsu: Does conflicts/provides not work?
<proppy> persia: Conflicts/Provides/Replaces ?
<Fujitsu> You'd need to have empty libunittest++{0,-dev} binaries depending on the unittest++.
<persia> Right.  proppy: listed to Fujitsu about this :)
<persia> s/ted/ten/
<Fujitsu> It won't look through Provides to find a potential upgrade candidate.
<proppy> I see
<mohammad> Hello, is any motu online?
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: what about patching the Makefile, to provide a shared library ?
<persia> mohammad: It's probably better to ask your question generally instead of trying to find a specific person.
<mohammad> would you please merge http://packages.debian.org/lenny/liblucene2-java to Hardy?
<mohammad> persia: ok
<Fujitsu> !info liblucene2-java hardy
<mohammad> I mean can anyone merge it please
<Fujitsu> !info liblucene2-java sid
<Fujitsu> Bah, no ubotu.
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: http://unittestcpp.aminche.com/UnitTest++/debian/control this seems correct ?
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: no Conflicts/Replaces/Provides but empty transition package
<proppy> I should had the depends
<Fujitsu> Ah, we don't have that package at all. mohammad: it will automatically appear in the next week or two.
<persia> mohammad: It's scheduled to be synced in the next couple weeks, and doesn't need manual attention.  For the time being, we still have libdb4.3, so it's not so critical.
<persia> Fujitsu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lucene2
<Fujitsu> proppy: unittest++ should still conflict/replace older versions.
<proppy> Fujitsu: ok
<proppy> Fujitsu: Provides too ?
<mohammad> if it is scheduled to be merged, then that's fine. Thank you, see you then.
<persia> proppy: I'd mention that the dummy packages were dummy packages for upgrade purposes only.  Further, you need conflicts / replaces / provides.  lastly, it might be worth mentioning that unittest++ provides a static library.
 * StevenK waves, from a little place called Boston.
<persia> Hi StevenK.  How do you like the other side of the globe?
<StevenK> persia: I dunno, I've not seen much of it yet. :-)
<Fujitsu> Hi StevenK.
<StevenK> persia: Didn't get to the hotel until 12:30am local time, thanks ever so, United.
<proppy> persia: Description: unit testing framework for c++, static library and headers
<proppy>  
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  US Carriers.  Best to avoid :)
<proppy> persia: Description: unit testing framework for c++, transition package
<persia> proppy: That sounds more explicit.  It's just to make sure nobody tries to link against it and ship :)
<StevenK> persia: Indeed. The international flight was great, but the domestic flight from San Francisco to Boston was delayed and dragged on for ever.
<persia> StevenK: Did they feed you?  I heard that all US domestic flights were now fasting freindly (tm)
<ajmitch> hi StevenK
<StevenK> persia: The domestic flight didn't, no.
<StevenK> Hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> good to see you're there in 1 piece
 * StevenK grins.
<ajmitch> all your bags there as well? :)
<StevenK> Yes, which is wonderful.
<ajmitch> lucky
<StevenK> I've not heard of anyone losing baggage yet, but I've only spoken to five people. :-)
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: thanks for all the hint
<Fujitsu> Yay, they fixed the bugwatches.
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: I'm testing it right now
<ajmitch> mithrandir didn't have his for a few days last time
<ajmitch> mine was only delayed until the next morning, thankfully
<StevenK> ajmitch: So it got to the hotel while you were sleeping
<StevenK> ?
<ajmitch> no, about lunchtime
<persia> Fujitsu: What was wrong with bugwatches?
<Fujitsu> persia: They broke and went to Unknown with 1.1.10.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I thought the ones I saw were just unknown.  Thanks for the hint: I'll have to look again :)
<Fujitsu> persia: You shouldn't trust much for a couple of days after a release.
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOT's to review my package on REVU : I currently have 0 avocations: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<StevenHarperUK> Hi does anyone know how much of a backlog the PPA build server has, is there a page on Launchpad that shows you he backlog of packages to be built?
<Hobbsee> it'll be similar to
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: is there a overall Queue, showing all the packages that are queued ?
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: yes, somewhere.
<Hobbsee> someone's probably uploaded another version of openoffice, which takes 6+ hours for a successful build.
<StevenHarperUK> I uploaded packages about 22hours ao,  they havent been done yet
<Hobbsee> [21:52] <Hobbsee> someone's probably uploaded another version of openoffice, which takes 6+ hours for a successful build.
<dalinian> Don't shoot, but where could an ubuntu-phyte get help with a problem?
<persia> dalinian: Depends on the problem.  If it's a local system issue, #ubutu or #ubuntu-locale, if it's a problem with reproducing a bug or working with bugs, #ubuntu-bugs.  If it's a question about packaging, this is the place.
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds suggests that they're doing a whole bunch of langpacks
 * Hobbsee can't find the build queue for ppas
<dalinian> Well, I seem to have a sound bug that may be related to an alsa package that will not install?
<Hobbsee> dalinian: likely #ubuntu
<dalinian> ty
<albert23> Hello all. I found a patch to solve bug 138728. Would that be a candidate for SRU in Gutsy? It' s a patch to gst-plugins-bad-multiverse.
<Fujitsu> bug #138728
<albert23> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/138728
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 138728 in rhythmbox "m4a files playback choppy with crossfading on" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<minghua> albert23: The procedure for proposing an SRU is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> albert23: probably not.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates.  It doesn't seem to be any of a security vulnerability, a possible cause of data loss, or a severe regression (although the my definition of severe is not authoritative)
<minghua> Good morning Fujitsu.
<minghua> and persia :-)
<persia> good evening minghua
<minghua> albert23: First it probably helps to assign that bug to the correct package...
<albert23> So the same requirements for SRU in main also apply to multiverse?
<Hobbsee> albert23: see the bottom half of that page.
<Hobbsee> but yes, effectively.
<Fujitsu> Hi minghua.
<proppy> hi
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: I tried the packaging scheme you've suggested to me
<proppy> repo here http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/unittest++/gnulinux/debian/gutsy/src/
<proppy> I get the following error
<proppy>   libunittest++-dev: Depends: unittest++ but it is not going to be installed
<proppy> E: Broken packages
<persia> proppy: Does it achieve the results you sought?
<proppy> when running sudo apt-get install libunittest++-dev
<proppy> but apt-get install unittest++ seems to go fine
<Hobbsee> sounds like ti's apt being stupid again.
<proppy> I wonder if this is due to libunittest++-dev depending of a package that conflicting with it
<persia> proppy: You need versioned conflicts / replaces
<Fujitsu> proppy: Hence the versioned conflicts..
<proppy> persia: <= versionned ?
<proppy> (< 1.3.0) versionned should go fine ?
<proppy> let me try this thanks a lot
<persia> proppy: Also, after a little thought, you probably don't want to Provide libunittest++0, just in case any clients are linked against the old dynamic library.
<persia> (only provide -dev)
<proppy> persia: you're right
<proppy> I was wondering what about people which are still linked against the static library
<proppy> persia: but I should still conflicts/replace it ?
<persia> proppy: Yes.
<proppy> persia: I should keep libunittest++0 transition package as well
<proppy> persia: for people to update
<persia> proppy: Yes.
 * persia gives proppy a certificate of correct intuition
<proppy> :)
<proppy> persia: I remembered lintian was not very happy with versionned conflict
<proppy> obsolete-relation-form
<proppy> found the fix
<proppy> http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tobsolete-relation-form.html
<proppy> policy 7.1
<proppy> s/</<<
<minghua> Wow.  I never knew < means <=.
<minghua> I knew to avoid using them, though.
<persia> minghua: That's why it's deprecated :)
<proppy> persia: Fujitsu: it works :)
<proppy> proppy@nekun:~/Desktop/20071027/unittest++$ dpkg -l | grep unittest++
<proppy> ii  libunittest++-dev                          1.3.0-1                                 unit testing framework for c++, transition p
<proppy> ii  libunittest++0                             1.3.0-1                                 unit testing framework for c++, transition p
<proppy> ii  unittest++                                 1.3.0-1                                 unit testing framework for c++, static libra
<proppy> Thanks a lot
<Fujitsu> Very good!
<hellboy195> hey guys. is that true that gimp 2.4 final only comes with gutsy-backports?
<Fujitsu> hellboy195: If it's there at all, yes.
<hellboy195> Fujitsu: well it isn't in backports yet so I'm asking
<Hobbsee> i think they were thinking of pushing it to updates, but were undecide
<Hobbsee> d
<hellboy195> Hobbsee: well I hope so because the difference between the latest RC and the final isn't very big and it looks better if you have the final ;)
 * proppy hugs Fujitsu and persia
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Pong
<Hobbsee> ScottK: written that email yet?
 * persia is filled with sudden and pungent curiosity
<zul> hello
<TheMuso> 'lo Hobbsee, ScottK. From overcasgt Bosto.
<TheMuso> overcast Boston even.
<persia> Hey TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Hey persia.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso, ScottK.
 * TheMuso is glad he has two days to recover for the summit.
<Hobbsee> hiya TheMuso :)
<ScottK> Hello The
<ScottK>  and Fujitsu
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No
<Hobbsee> ScottK: please get to it
 * Fujitsu is also rather curious.
<ScottK> Doing mail --> TODO soonish
<coNP[uni]> Hey Hobbsee, persia, ScottK, TheMuso, zul
<coNP[uni]> And others as well
<coNP[uni]> :)
<ScottK> StevenK: Which domestic airline was it?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: also read -devel - but remove any sharp objects.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Which?
 * ScottK just woke up and is moving slowly
<persia> either?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: #ubuntu-devle, sorry
<ScottK> Ah.
<Hobbsee> last half hour should be enough
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and you can add that into your mail, and your stuff to the CC.
<ajmitch> ah, fun
<ScottK> Well I'm going to be assembling evidence for a while.  There's a lot.
<zul> ajmitch: should you be like sleeping
<Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.  but i think this section should be the clincher :)
 * ScottK is still reading.
<ajmitch> zul: yes
<Hobbsee> OH YOU'RE FSCKING JOKING!!!!
<zul> O-?/LP;U8IJ76YYUU767YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
 * Fujitsu is confused.
<zul> sorry
<crimsun_> that last string of "Y"s could be an angry admin responding to rpm -U
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<zul> liam
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What about?
<Fujitsu> 23:43:08?
<zul> sorry liam is at the stage where he has to mash keyboard
<Fujitsu> zul: Ah, fun.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: -devel
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: just read it.  remove all sharp objects first
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I've been following since the start.
<nenolod> sharp objects?!$%
<nenolod> sounds fun
<StevenK> ScottK: United.
<ScottK> StevenK: Ah.  They are on my "will not fly on" list.  Every time I think maybe they've reformed and I'll try them again, I regret it.
<StevenK> ScottK: Internationally, they are okay. Aside from the food.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i dunno, they were pretty crap last year...
<StevenK> elkbuntu: The international flight was okay. The domestic flight was *crap*
<elkbuntu> they have no concept of leg room. im short as, and even i felt cramped...
<elkbuntu> lifeless got told off for trying to go to the loo at one point too, iirc
<elkbuntu> (in a completely legit situation)
<lifeless> elkbuntu: ?!
<StevenK> elkbuntu: So guess how I felt...
<lifeless> elkbuntu: oh yes, I remember. the United fligt was crap.
<elkbuntu> lifeless, the united flight from sydney...
<elkbuntu> the food at least ranked better than your 'chicken' at syd airport... but only just
<StevenK> I had Subway before boarding, that was nice.
<elkbuntu> we were not so wise
 * StevenK chuckles
<jsgotangco> fly singapore air with the huge 500-seater airbus!
<zul> if you can afford it
<jsgotangco> :D
<nenolod> airbus planes scare me
<nenolod> when they take off they sound like they're about to rip apart
<nenolod> when they get airbourne they're ok though
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, yeah, and have an actual bed! :D
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
 * persia grumbles that releasing is supposed to make my system more stable, not make it crash regularly.
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: what's up?
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: I'm working at merging vertex, I've seen that you merged it some time ago.
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: there is something I don't understand with build-depends
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: I mean, there were some changes to it, now I think that they're not necessary but I'm not sure about that
<RainCT> what do you think about this for ubuntu-dev-tools? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42366/
 * Hobbsee looks
<Rospo_Zoppo> thanks
<TheMuso> persia: lol
<persia> RainCT: Could you make it not require pbuilder?
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: I opened a bug (156732)
<rexbron> persia: Quick question, I am looking at trying to get a package from debian-multimedia into univerese, does debian/changelog need to be updated (ie changing of release)?
<persia> TheMuso: Actually, when Edgy was released, my system didn't get unstable (unlike all the others).  Of course, it was are least stable release from a regular perspective.  I think I have the $breaks_stuff switch set wrong - about three weeks before UVF is always most reliable.
<RainCT> persia: could be done, but then either a copy of /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends would be needed, or the same must be rewroten there
<persia> rexbron: Which package.
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: oh, the mesa stuff?
<TheMuso> persia: right
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: yep
<persia> RainCT: Hrm.  I wonder about abstracting it out.  I don't use pbuilder.
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: I don't know very well how to deal with that stuff, you can see it in the bug report :)
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: i dont think most people do :)
 * Hobbsee has a further look
<rexbron> persia: OpenLibraries
 * rexbron hopes to follow that up with Jahshaka
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: :)
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: ping?
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: un-ping
<persia> rexbron: http://sourceforge.net/projects/openlibraries?
 * RainCT is checking pbuilder-satisfydepends
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: if you do an apt-cache show libglu1-xorg-dev, you'll see it says it's a transitional package
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: basically, the transitional packages get removed once everything is updated to non-transitional packages
<Rospo_Zoppo> i see
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: if you apt-cache show the other, you'll see it's *not* a transitional package
 * persia thinks the mesa transition is still underway in Debian...
<Hobbsee> persia: looks like it.  i'd hoped they'd have finished, by now
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: so the changes are needed ?
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: basically, keep merging that stuff in - we dont want to dep/build-dep on transitional packages.
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: yup
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah.  I was surprised as well.
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: as for how they tell which ones they're making transitional, and which they're changing to, and how to do the dep changes - that's for the X guys :)
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: and i dont think you need to know it for merging
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: the same thing seems to happen for all of the X transition - but if you look at the descriptions of the deps, it should all be fairly obvious.
<geser> Hobbsee: transitions take a long time in Debian, it's not like in Ubuntu where you do a mass-upload and be done with it
<rexbron> persia: Yes
<Hobbsee> geser: true.  but over a year?
<Rospo_Zoppo> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<geser> Hobbsee: do you know how long the /usr/doc -> /usr/share/doc transition took?
<persia> rexbron: Whilst I'm downloading, Thank you for working to integrate third-party repositories with Ubuntu, and please feel free to ask questions generally in the channel, rather than waiting until I am around.
<Hobbsee> geser: no idea :)
<persia> geser: Didn't that start in potato?
<Hobbsee> Rospo_Zoppo: you're welcome
<rexbron> persia: sure
<Hobbsee> persia: btw, rexbron's good.  you want to sponsor his uploads :)
<rexbron> Hobbsee: That's high praise :). Thanks!
<Hobbsee> rexbron: :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah - I should sponsor some things.  For now, I'm just blathering, although I'll agree with the sentiment :)
<Hobbsee> persia: hehe :)
<geser> Hobbsee: I don't have a reference right now but afaik it took over a debian release (or even two releases)
<Hobbsee> geser: ouchy
<persia> geser: Ummm..  There are still open /usr/doc -> /usr/share/doc bugs.  All RC now, but not all closed.
<RainCT> persia: that pbuilder thing is a mess lol
<persia> RainCT: That's one reason I don't use it :)  Perhaps one could write a script that depended on apt internals or debuild internals to grab the right stuff, rather than trying to calculate it directly.
<Hobbsee> which pbuilder thing?
<RainCT> persia: well, actually it would be enought to just get the build dependencies out of the debian/control file, passing them to apt-get would do it then
<persia> Hobbsee: pbuilder-satisfydepends.  It works, but...
<persia> RainCT: That and trying to fix all the bugs for the corner cases is how pbuilder-satisfydepends was made.  I think it's better to either leverage known good internals, or just work with pbuilder-satisfydepends, rather than reimplementing something that already exists three different ways.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahh
<RainCT> persia: yeh, that's why I'm using pbuilder-satisfydepends :P
<persia> RainCT: Hmm...  I'm looking at something else right now, but I think leveraging the system used by debuild might be better.  It's the algorithm used by the buildds, and it's guaranteed installed on all developer systems.
<persia> rexbron: The changelog doesn't need an update because it comes from a foreign location: imports can be processed (although it is a little harder for source != Debian).  However, the changelog will need an update because: 1) The package doesn't build for hardy, 2) Ubuntu OpenAL actually works on other architectures, 3) The package isn't lintian or linda clean.
<persia> Could someone please give me a close brace to match { ?
<TheMuso> persia: ?
<RainCT> persia:  }
<RainCT> broken keyboard?
<persia> TheMuso: My keyboard mapping has been broken since Breezy, and I've not found out where.  I'm missing close bracket, and close brace in X.  close bracket appears here a lot, but close brace is trickier.
<persia> RainCT: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> how weird!
<RainCT> I had problems with < and > with Dapper, there's some config file in ~/ I think where it can be fixed
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  It's something related to jp106 keyboards, as the mapping was also broken on a fresh Feisty install I did for someone else.  The key doesn't get used much by non-programmers, so it's not that bad, but annoying.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahh
<TheMuso> persia: ah.
<persia> RainCT: I'm sure.  I'm further sure that it needs either a poke to xkbd or the GNOME keyboard mapper, but haven't gotten around to it (and am not a fan of local fixes)
<persia> RainCT: `aptitude install $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }')` could benefit from a bit further cleanup, but does almost the right thing.  It doesn't handle build conflicts, and should really use cut instead of awk, but it's certainly smaller than pbuilder-satisfydepends.
<RainCT> persia: was looking at that, but there's still one problem..  ex. libopenal-dev (>= 0.2005080600-1) libalut-dev libglpng-dev
<persia> RainCT: `... | s/([^]*)//g | ...`
<RainCT> persia: where would this go?
<persia> Then, call dpkg-checkbuilddeps again to see if it succeeds.  Alternately, pull those from the dpkg-checkbuilddeps output with a regex, and use grep-dctrl to check if there is a sufficient version in the cache.  I suspect that if you look at the source of dpkg-checkbuilddeps you'll find a shortcut.
<persia> RainCT: i.e. aptitude install $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }' | s/([^]*)//g )`
<persia> Ummm.... `aptitude install $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }' | sed s/([^]*)//g )`.  Someone perly could probably give you a nice one-liner that did both at once.
<RainCT> persia: uh.. that's doing something strange.   build dependencies are Â«libopenal-dev (>= 0.2005080600-1) libalut-dev libglpng-devÂ», but it tries to install Â«festival festlex-cmu festlex-poslex festvox-kallpc16k gsfonts-x11 libestools1.2Â»
<persia> RainCT: Which package are you using as a base.  I'll try to mirror.
<RainCT> persia: chromium
<persia> mmmm..  chromium....
<RainCT> it's the first relatively small package I thought of :P
<persia> Relatively small?  Are you planning a merge?
<RainCT> ?
<RainCT> persia: do you mean to test that     aptitude install $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }' | s/([^]*)//g )`     or have I missed something?
<persia> "Relatively small?" => I would call it moderate to large.  "Are you planning a merge" => You and I share the last meaningful changelog entry.  If you are working on it, I'll wait.  If you're not, I'll push & sync.
<RainCT> no, I just got it to test this
<persia> RainCT: $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }' | sed 's/([^)]*)//g' | sed 's/|\s[^\s]*//g) generates the right string for me.  Testing an install.
<RainCT> have you copied the complete command? it says to me that it's incomplete
<persia> RainCT: That worked.  92 packages installed, and dpkg-checkbuilddeps is satisfied on completion.  There are better ways to handle version checking and alternates: the apt source is your best guide.  I suspect it's exposed, but would need to investigate in more depth.
<persia> `sudo aptitude install $(dpkg-checkbuilddeps 2>&1 | awk -F: '{ print $3 }' | sed 's/([^)]*)//g' | sed 's/|\s[^\s]*//g')`
<RainCT> ah. for what are the ``'s?
<persia> RainCT: Surrounding the entire string?  Just quotes in a style that matches a shell request to execute the entire bit.
<RainCT> ah, it doesn't work for me with the `, they are hiding the output but aptitude asks for confirmation before installing. without them it works fine.       (btw, on your previous msg at 18:44:10 there was a ' missing, that's why it said it's incomplete :P)
<persia> RainCT: Ah.  Yes.  You should only feed the shell the ` marks if you plan to do something with the output.  My apologies for the confusion.
<RainCT> persia: ah ok.    Thanks :D
<persia> RainCT: Ah.  Yes.  The final '.  Sorry about that.
<persia> RainCT: You'll still want to look at the dpkg-checkbuilddeps source, and maybe apt.  I suspect there's a way to feed apt a string, and get a useful response directly, rather than playing with awk and sed.  This would then do the right thing with regard to alternatives and version checking.
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi: I am looking for MOTU's to review my package on REVU - I have 0 advocation's so far : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lamego> hi
<bddebian> Hello lamego
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<jdong> bug 1
<jdong> aww
<apachelogger> sacater: ping
<rexbron> I have a python  extention for python2.4 that depends on libboost-python (which depends on python2.5) and afaik is compiled against python2.4. I get this error when I try and import the module in python2.4:
<rexbron> python2.4: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libboost_python-gcc41-1_34_1.so.1.34.1: undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4_64
<rexbron> From doing some quick googleing, that symbol was changed in 2.5. Is this error due to libboost-python being compiled against 2.5 or something else entirely?
<rexbron> Looking through the build log, the module is compiling against python2.4
<geser> rexbron: doesn't your extension work with python 2.5 as python2.5 is currently the default on Ubuntu
<rexbron> geser: The ./configure script has an explicit dependancy on python2.4
<rexbron> and all the includes are python2.4 when compiling
<rexbron> geser: I could attempt to patch the source and change the configure script to look for python2.5 and compile against it, but as I have not written the code, I have no idea if it depends on some python2.4 features not present in 2.5
<sacater> apachelogger: ping
<sacater> apachelogger: sorry irssi doesnt have alerts
<imbrandon> sure it does, you just have to turn them on and configure them ;)
<imbrandon> can even make it beep or use libnotify local through screen+irssi
 * rexbron is in python hell
<rexbron> damn version mismatches
 * ScottK suggests you point your agnst at whoever hard coded your extension for 2.4
<apachelogger> sacater: any specific reason why ye wanna join the amarok wolf brigade on launchpad?
<rexbron> ScottK: Hmm, appropreate, what a novel idea
<imbrandon> wow, that couldent have went more smoothly, i upgraded a box just now from breezy -> dapper -> edgy -> Feisty , then gutsy
<TheMuso> ScottK: Sorry to see you have to pull back for Hardy, but I do understand why you have chosen to do so.
<imbrandon> no hickups at all, /me is suprised
<TheMuso> s/have to/choose to/.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.  I hope it's a one cycle thing.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Likewise. You are a wonderful, and valuable contributor, and it would be a shame to loose you.
<ScottK> Thanks again.
<sacater> apachelogger: cos i love using amarok, and if find any bugs i will immeidiatly report them
<ScottK> TheMuso: You're at UDS, right?
<TheMuso> ScottK: yes I am.
<apachelogger> sacater: well, the groups is more about actually getting the bugs sorted as fast as possible... still, if you think it makes sense to be a member ;-)
<sacater> :)
<TheMuso> Fosscamp is today, but I'm not attending. I'm just in my room with joejaxx, who is rooming with me.
<sacater> go for it :)
<ScottK> TheMuso: Great.  I'm taking an overnight train and will be there tomorrow.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Sweet. For how long?
<TheMuso> dholbach and I were actually talking earlier today about possibly having a Fosscamp MOTu session, if one hasn't already been held.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I'll leave very early Wed.
<TheMuso> it would be great if you were here for that, whever it turns out to be.
<ScottK> Well Sun/Mon/Tues I'll be there.
<TheMuso> Great.
<TheMuso> There will be something at UDS likely enough, but I was just thinking of an informal chat.
<ScottK> OK.
 * pwnguin hopes the scottK email wasnt about him
<ScottK> pwnguin: No.
<ScottK> No rworries.
<ScottK> worries even
<sacater> apachelogger: :)
<sacater> apachelogger: got the email
<pwnguin> ScottK: well, i think theres nothing wrong with having written guidelines ala debian-policy, though for the moment i do agree that MOTU should be informed and intelligent
<ScottK> pwnguin: Agreed.  Better documentation is a good thing, but lack of it isn't an excuse for doing obvious things.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<pwnguin> debian policy is pretty big
<stani> ignore what I will say (working on the abbreviations wiki page)
<stani> !SRU
<Ubotwo> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<geser> ScottK: as I got burned myself with gnumed-client, what's your opinion on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnumed-client/+bug/154136/comments/5 ?
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 154136 in gnumed-client "gnumed - "new upstream available" - 0.2.7.1" [Low,In progress]
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my Package (easycrypt) on REVU : I currently have 0 Advocation's: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<stani> !DaD
<Ubotwo> Factoid dad not found
<stani> !DAD
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: what about the warning for the menu file?
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: thats a pointless warning, the new Debian Menu structure spec allows that entry, the test are no longer valid
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: isn't http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu-policy/ch2.html the current list for the sections anymore?
<StevenHarperUK_> A MOTU gave me another link the other day
<geser> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html#s3.2 that one?
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: yes
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: which is right
<geser> is also contains a menu structure but is it also contains "The authoritative list of Debian's menu structure is maintained in the Debian Menu sub-policy document which is part of the Debian Policy package." and "The menu structure below is included only for convenience and is not authoritative."
<geser> any DD around who knows which document is right about the menu structure?
<StevenHarperUK_> I keep finding these conflicting docs :P
<StevenHarperUK_> My current choice is : section="Applications/File Management"
<StevenHarperUK_> And that appears in Accessories in my 7.10 install
<StevenHarperUK_> so it does work
<StevenHarperUK_> and I think meets the new (coming) spec
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: have you also a reference for that hotkey entry in your menu file? I can't find in it mentioned in that page and linda misparses it.
<StevenHarperUK_> Right Ill remove it
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: does your app appear in the menu because of the menu file (Ubuntu doesn't use it by default) or because of your .desktop file?
<StevenHarperUK_> geser : I don't know
<rexbron> geser: Compiling against 2.5 seems to cause no issues
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: I have removed that hotkey and im resubmitting now
<joejaxx> anyone know the colour legend for merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html/
<joejaxx> ?
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: is that ok?
<jdong> is there a way to scrape source packages from Launchpad without resorting to link-scraping?
<jdong> (like an API of some sort?)
<geser> joejaxx: it's the Priority: field from debian/control
<jdong> grr never mind, I'll just continue to do it the old fashioned way
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: yes
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: ok ill stick the comment on it too
<bddebian> Grr, why doesn't library packaging suck so much? :-(
<joejaxx> ksdjflkslkdfslkdjflksdfsdflkslfkjw/in 315
<joejaxx> gah
<TheMuso> bddebian: Doesn't?
<joejaxx> blasted ssh lag
<bddebian> Erm s/doesn't/does/
<TheMuso> bddebian: Thought as much. :p
<StevenK> joejaxx: Where are you hiding?
<joejaxx> StevenK: i am hiding? lol
<StevenK> joejaxx: And you can't complain about ssh lag if you're not ssh'ing to Australia.
<joejaxx> StevenK: :P
<bddebian> dh_makeshlibs is supposed to create the shlib file right?
<StevenK> .shlibs, yes
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: its there
<StevenHarperUK_> geser: I have added comment on what I did
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: just curious: as easy crypt is a gui for truecrypt does it work without it?
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: just minor (no need to do a extra upload for it): install only *.py files (no *.pyo or *.pyc). Your easycrypt.install has "*.py* usr/share/easycrypt
<geser> " but as you only have *.py files that just minor
<geser> StevenHarperUK_: besides this looks ok, I'll do a final review later and advocate it if I don't find any new issues
<bddebian> StevenK: OK, it's creating <package>/DEBIAN/ files as it should but it doesn't seem to be doing anything with them??
<StevenK> So what should it be doing?
<bddebian> Dunno but I keep getting a linda warning that the package is not in an shlibs file
<bddebian> Gah, why is this so freakin difficult? :-(
<StevenK> bddebian: Does dpkg -I mention it?
<ajmitch> good morning
<lamego> good night :P
<StevenK> Morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> StevenK: The shlib file you mean?
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch
<StevenK> bddebian: Yes
<bddebian> Yes it's there
<bddebian> Would the source package name cause an issue?
<bddebian> For this the source package name was just libwfut while the binary is libwtfu-0.1-0
<erable> Hi.
<StevenK> bddebian: I don't think so.
<erable> I'm looking for someone to review packages on REVU (qdevelop, qextserialport and qtsmbstatus). Thanks.
 * ajmitch wants a libstfu
<bddebian> ajmitch: For me? :-)
<bddebian> aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh I give up
<TheMuso> bddebian: What package?
<bddebian> libwfut.  It's in the games svn, not in Debian yet
<TheMuso> ca
<TheMuso> ah
<bddebian> This is the warning:
<bddebian> W: libwfut-0.1-0; The library libwfut is not in a shlibs file.
<TheMuso> bddebian: Does the package contain a shlibs file/
<bddebian> afaict, yes.  It uses dh_mkshlibs to create it and as StevenK pointed out, dpkg -I shows it
<rexbron> perhaps I am just daft, but could some one point me to documentation on how to update a source package from a svn checkout?
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> bddebian: Did you use -i with lintian to get a better explanation?
<bddebian> lintian doesn't give that error but yes, I did with linda and it didn't help much
<bddebian>  The library shown above is not listed in a shlibs file. This means
<bddebian>  that packages that depend on this one won't get ${shlibs:Depends}
<bddebian>  correctly.
<geser> bddebian: does dpkg-deb -I shlibs give back useful output for it?
<geser> can you put the deb on some webspace?
<bddebian> libwfut-0.1 0 libwfut-0.1-0 (>=0.1.0-0), libwfut-0.1-0 (<<0.1.0-99)
<geser> bddebian: that's the only lib inside this deb?
<bddebian> Yep
<RainCT> Can someone please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk?
<TheMuso> RainCT: If bandwidth here at UDS wasn't so bad, I'd do it in a hearbeat. :p
<TheMuso> heartbeat even
<hellboy195> good night guys :)
<geser> bddebian: this looks ok, I'd probably ignore that error then
<RainCT> TheMuso: :)
<bddebian> OK..
<RainCT> bddebian: is Â«balsaÂ» free (the merge) or are you working on it?
<bddebian> RainCT: Go for it
<RainCT> ok :)
<RainCT> btw, does anyone know what the status about adding grab-merge to ubuntu-dev-tools is?
<TheMuso> RainCT: Theres a bug filed on it.
<TheMuso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/155098
<tepsipakki> it needs a license
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 155098 in ubuntu-dev-tools "add grab-merge.sh" [Wishlist,New]
<RainCT> ah
<RainCT> TheMuso, tepsipakki: thx
 * RainCT grumbles something about what's so difficult on licensing stuff properly before making it public
<TheMuso> RainCT: In this case, the script was written to simply grab files from the site, and it requires the author to give it a license. IMO I don't see the need for it to be in ubuntu-dev-tools, unless it was rewritten to include fetching from DaD, but even thne, I think its fine where it is.
<bahadunn> howdy
<RainCT> well, it's always nice to get everything there with an apt-get install
<RainCT> but you're right, this one isn't difficult to find
 * minghua wonders why ubuntu-dev-tools depend on reportbug.
<TheMuso> minghua: Theres a script to submit source changes to debian.
<TheMuso> Which uses it.
<minghua> Aha, it's for reporting bugs to Debian.  Thanks TheMuso.
<TheMuso> np.
<RainCT> bddebian: "comment out *_DISABLE_DEPRECATED" do you know what those are?
<RainCT> (about the Makefiles)
<bddebian> RainCT: Not exactly sure what they do but fixed several packages that way :-(
<TheMuso> RainCT: has there been a new upstream version since the last merge?
<bddebian> Well I should say they disable deprecated glib/gnome/etc commands
<bddebian> Not that I'm aware of
<minghua> RainCT: Is that a GTK application?
<TheMuso> balsa is yes.
<RainCT> TheMuso: yes, 2.3.17 -> 2.3.20
<TheMuso> actually i think its a gnome app
<TheMuso> RainCT: Right
<TheMuso> RainCT: Try without the disable depricated stuff first, to be sure its not needed.
<minghua> RainCT, TheMuso: Then I believe it's because of a new glib/gtk version.
<JanC> if anybody has experience with the 'python-django' package: http://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2007/oct/26/security-fix/
<RainCT> TheMuso: ok, building
<TheMuso> minghua: yeah. Somethign similar was needed for another app I've worked on.
<minghua> Glib/GTK label some functions as obsolete for every new major version.
<RainCT> uh.. is there any reason for Â«dpkg-source -x package.dscÂ» to be really slow when being used with something downloaded using grab-merge?
<RainCT> ahh
<RainCT> gpg: keyserver timed out
<TheMuso> ah
<RainCT> how can I get the keys for debian? (or what else can I do in order that it works properly)
<TheMuso> RainCT: I don't worry about checking sigs when unpacking packages.
<RainCT> ah ok, where can I disable it then?
<minghua> I didn't know dpkg-source would check signature remotely.
<minghua> ...maybe on Debian it doesn't...
<TheMuso> Me neither.
<TheMuso> minghua: nor on Ubuntu
<RainCT> well, it toke a lot and then said this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42403/
<RainCT> and the same with the stuff I downloaded previously
<minghua> RainCT: Installing debian-keyring package *may* help.
<TheMuso> d/c
<TheMuso> uh
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<minghua> RainCT: I think it has something to do with your gpg setting.
<minghua> I just tried under gutsy, it doesn't connect to a remote keyserver here.
<StevenHarperUK_> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my Package (easycrypt) on REVU : I currently have 0 Advocation's: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<RainCT> minghua: it's the default one, + seahorse installed
<JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-django/+bug/157903
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 157903 in python-django "security vulnerabiity in django i18n system" [Undecided,New]
<POX_> buxy: ^^ (we need to fix it in DPMT)
<RainCT> balsa is writing a lot of  "cc -DG_DISABLE_DEPRECATED -DGDK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED ....." lines
<TheMuso> RainCT: Did you check for a patch to make that happen?
<RainCT> the package was build fine tought
<TheMuso> RainCT: Yeah but if that was showing up, something is still causing it to disable the depricated warnings or whatever it is.
<RainCT> yeh, the Makefiles contain that
<RainCT> in the latest ubuntu revision this was commented out, but directly on the makefiles (no patch)
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Maybe try commenting it out.
<persia> RainCT: patches in diff.gz are still patches: just a different way of doing them (one patch for everything)
<RainCT> well, so this should continue?
<RainCT> *continue there
<TheMuso> RainCT: Basically, it would be good to find out whether the disabling is needed.
<nenolod> anyone have tips on packaging CMake based buildsystems?
<persia> nenolod: You'll need to add the right cmake calls to both the configure: and the build: rules.
<nenolod> darn! i was hoping there was a cdbs overlay file for it :(
<nenolod> oh well, there's other things that need to be done before it's packageable anyway
<nenolod> the damn library doesn't even set a SONAME and it installs as library.so
<TheMuso> nenolod: have you told upstream?
<nenolod> yeah
<nenolod> i have
<nenolod> ;p
<TheMuso> Ok.
<nenolod> but upstream is a gentoo luser, so we'll see if he chooses to care or not
<nenolod> ;p
<nenolod> IT WORKS ON MY GENTOO BOX
<nenolod> is probably what he will say ;p
<nenolod> although AFAIK portage complains about missing SONAME too
<nenolod> ;p
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> But if its a library.
<persia> nenolod: The problem is that cmake allows wide latitude in the way it wishes to be called in each step.  If you can find a way to generalise, and prepare a candidate cmake rule for CDBS, it may be accepted (although CDBS changes usually take a complete cycle for review & acceptance).
<nenolod> persia, i've noticed that cmake is very flexible
<persia> TheMuso: even a library doesn't matter on Gentoo.  all clients get recompiled when it is updated, even if there is no API or ABI change.
<nenolod> it is annoying ;p
<TheMuso> persia: See thats dangerous.
<TheMuso> Lulls programmers into a bad practice.
<nenolod> TheMuso, well, portage goes
<persia> TheMuso: That, and makes packaging problems worse.  If there's an API change, and the packager forgets to change the package name, the system breaks.
<nenolod> QA Notice: missing SONAME for libfoo.so
<nenolod> or something
<TheMuso> yeah. Portage should just stop and say "I'm not going any further"
<nenolod> it's portage
<nenolod> lowest common denominator
<nenolod> ;p
<TheMuso> Well he deserves to have his ass kicked by sane packagers/distro maintainers.
<persia> TheMuso: We don't do that for lintian.  Why should portage for the equivalent?  I'm not trying to defend portage as a whole, just the decision to allow breakage if the packager really wants to.
<TheMuso> persia: True.
 * persia completely agrees that the developer/packager who lets that through deserves direct physical appreciation from all the users
<bmk789> what should i do with my GPG keys to transfer them to a new OS?
<TheMuso> Afaik the only time one doesn't need to use a soname is for plugins, but even then...
<persia> bmk789: Copy the pubring.gpg and secring.gpg files from ~/.gnupg.  You may also want the trustdb.gpg, but that is less essential.  If you forget pubring.gpg, you can at least download your key from the keyservers.  If you forget secring.gpg, you'll have trouble...
<TheMuso> Thats if your public key is on a key server.
<bmk789> so basically transfering the whole .gnupg dir over will do the job?
<persia> TheMuso: Technically, one never needs a soname: it's just a mechanism to identify the ABI so that clients can select the right library version at runtime, and multiple versions can be installed.
 * TheMuso nods
<persia> TheMuso: Publishing to a keyserver is a requirement for Contributors :)
<TheMuso> persia: yeah I know that.
<persia> bmk789: That might work, but you may wish to adjust gpg.conf if your gpg version changes, you don't really need the backup files, and it doesn't hurt anything to generate a new random seed.
<bmk789> thanks
<RainCT> (Can someone please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk?)
<nenolod> persia: i don't understand this using CMake trend
<nenolod> persia, what is so wrong with autotools :/
<persia> RainCT: Ummm..  About line 45 of get-build-deps.  It fails to guarantee either that sufficient versions are installed, or try installing alternates if the preferred dependencies are not available.  The second it's a big issue, but the first can be a problem.  Can these not be extracted, and checked with grep-dctrl or similar?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-28
<persia> nenolod: I have more interest in defending gentoo than cmake, and I'm not convinced that the very concept of a source-based distribution isn't flawed.
<minghua> nenolod: Multi-platform, perhaps.
<persia> minghua: autotools works for every platform I've every used since 1995.  Where does it break?
<minghua> persia: I don't really know.  But I heard the strong point of CMake is its portability.
<minghua> persia: Can you use autotools on Windows without cygwin/mingw?
<nenolod> pfft. windows. who cares about that.
<persia> minghua: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/install.html
<persia> minghua: Admittedly, for many cases, one needs to install the POSIX compatibility libraries, but that just seems like the right thing anyway...
<minghua> CMake says on its own website: "Generates native build files (e.g., makefiles on Unix; workspaces/projects on MS Visual C++)"
<minghua> http://www.cmake.org/HTML/Features.html
<nenolod> minghua, who cares about VisualC++. it's not even compliant to any standard
<nenolod> it should be considered a miracle if that thing compiles any non MFC/Win32API code
<persia> minghua: autotools only generates Makefiles, but all the common IDEs (including VC++) can use them.
<minghua> nenolod: A lot of people care.  You can choose your tool, other people can choose theirs.
<nenolod> minghua, yeah, but most people who care probably wouldn't use CMake
<persia> nenolod: I'll have to agree with minghua about choice.
<RainCT> persia: I've no idea how to do that -.-
<rexbron> persia: I have version of OpenLibraries, adapted from debian-multimedia, for review. I think the biggest issue with the package is that currently it is hardcoded to a python version as it depends on libboost-python (which is only compiled against the current version of python). Is there a better solution?
<minghua> nenolod: I am not a developer, don't argue with me.
<nenolod> persia, well i agree that VC++ is a valid choice, but, i'm not sure that using CMake to generate VisualC++ solution files
<nenolod> ;p
<rexbron> err insert an 'a' two words in
<persia> rexbron: Has anyone else looked at it since we last spoke?
<nenolod> +is
<rexbron> persia: is was not building when we talked about ir
<rexbron> *it
<cdm10> I was wondering if anyone here was thinking about packaging Desktop Data Manager: http://data-manager.sourceforge.net/
<cdm10> It's like Glipper but awesomer
<Aerdan> CMake would be a lot more useful if it didn't require its users to duplicate IF checks in the ENDIF statement.
<cdm10> Actually, I think they've got working .debs, but it's not in any repositories.
<Aerdan> ((and if it could do string-based operations as well as Perl.))
<nenolod> persia, so, debian/rules for a CMake project is not necessarily the same as any other specific CMake project's debianisation?
<nenolod> man, that sucks :D
<persia> rexbron: OK.  I don't like to be a sole contact about things, and encourage you to ask questions without addressing a specific person unless you believe only they can help.  My python and python packaging is rather weak compared to others here, but I suspect that you'll be fine if you comply with the NEW Python Policy: it should set things up for all compatible & available python interpreters at compile time, and check again at runtime.
<persia> Err.  s/runtime/install time/ (I think)
<rexbron> persia: who would you suggest? I would be happy to take it up with them
<persia> nenolod: close, but not guaranteed, because cmake doesn't have very stringent requirements for rule nomenclature or usage (instead of `./configure; make` one calls `cmake foo; cmake bar` where foo and bar depend on the cmake configuration)
<nenolod> if it's a setuptools-based python package, you can probably just use CDBS to build it
<persia> rexbron: I'd suggest describing the problem generally, and asking for someone knowledgeable about python packaging to help.  That way, whoever is capable and active can respond, and you'll have the shortest wait.
<rexbron> ok
<nenolod> persia, i must wonder why they would design it that way. it seems like a giant step backwards (like, all the way back to the 1980s)
 * persia continues to fail to defend cmake
<RainCT> persia: I think currently I'll just let it use the pbuilder script again, and let the current method there as a fallback for the case it isn't installed (with a warning that it recommends to install pbuilder, which is anyways a recommend of ubuntu-dev-tools). what do you think?
<persia> RainCT: You'll want to parse $missing_dependencies to extract the version strings where they exist.  Then check the apt status cache (grep-dctrl is one tool for this) to make sure that there is a sufficient version.  You could also trap the required versions, call apt with --simulate, parse the output, and match.
<persia> RainCT: I still think the dpkg-foo and apt-foo tools are much more mature than pbuilder, and that pbuilder-satisfydepends is an incomplete attempt to reinvent the wheel, but I'm opinionated about that, and my opinion doesn't represent policy.
<minghu1> Ugh.  There is something seriously wrong along the X.org+GSteamer stack on my box.
<persia> RainCT: Another option is to leave it as-is: there are bugs, but it works for the majority of cases.  If you do that, please file the bugs if it gets distributed that way.
<minghu1> I get hard lock every time I have some "visualization music" effect.
<nenolod> persia, something makes me think cmake is going to be more and more hated by packagers as it's usage becomes more and more widespread :P
 * persia provides nenolod with an explicit hint about highlighting and cmake
<nenolod> :D
<nenolod> minghua, well, something of interest, some guy is working on porting projectM to gstreamer
<nenolod> so soon the nightmares will get much worse ;)
<ion_> projectM â¥
<nenolod> i don't love them atm. they switched to CMake on me. :(
<minghua> nenolod: Actually I don't need visualization...  It's just enabled by default, and if I don't disable it, I get a hard lock, which is really annoying.
<sahil> is there a listing of packages and their corrosponding config files etc that are added from a base linux install?
<sahil> basically im trying to see if i can turn gentoo into ubuntu almost
<minghua> sahil: What do you mean by "a base linux install"?
<nenolod> probably debootstrap
<sahil> minghua:basically a fresh gentoo install
<nenolod> debootstrap then.
<minghua> sahil: Better ask in a gentoo channel, I would assume.
<persia> sahil: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices/ contains all the lists of packages.  Each source package has a diff.gz with all the patches.
<sahil> nenolod: do i actually have to do the debootstrap or can i just see what it does?
<sahil> thanks
<nenolod> sahil, debootstrap installs the base system.
<proppy> hi
<sahil> i must say ive been a gentoo user for years and i just installed gusty on a test machine and am blown away
<nenolod> sahil: if you want a base install of ubuntu with nothing else (no X, no GNOME, etc), you use debootstrap.
<sahil> its really something special
<persia> sahil: You might also be interested in the ubuntu-desktop meta-package, which contains the default list of software for a desktop system.
<sahil> nenolod:from that point what is done to get it to the ubuntu-desktop
<sahil> heh there we go
<persia> nenolod: One could also use the alternate install CD...
<nenolod> persia, that is true
<nenolod> i hadn't thought of that
<proppy> how log for a package dputed to show on revu ?
<nenolod> proppy, the cron runs every 10 minutes
<persia> proppy: If there's no issues, it updates every 10 minutes.  If it's been longer, please ask for help including the package name.
<RainCT> persia: Rev 25. get-build-deps: switch back to pbuilder-satisfydepends, use dpkg-checkbuilddeps as fallback
<nenolod> proppy, make sure you are in the revu keyring though. if you are not, the upload will be ignored.
<proppy> persia: nenolod: ok thanks
<nenolod> you can make sure that you are, by joining the motu contrib group
<proppy> nenolod: I did it last year
<proppy> nenolod: so it should be still active :)
<proppy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=447 uploaded :)
<nenolod> well then 10 minutes ;p
<nenolod> proppy, that's a lot of lintian warnings
<RainCT> persia: (I'll open a wishlist bug about improving the dpkg-* using thing once it got merged)
<persia> RainCT: OK.  At this point, I don't really have anything further to contribute to the script, and don't generally involve myself enough in ubuntu-dev-tools to be familiar with how the package is managed.  Please consider my objections to have been addressed: the script now works without pbuilder (although it works better with pbuilder).
<nenolod> proppy, did you do svn checkout or svn export?
<nenolod> proppy, if you did svn checkout, you should go back and do svn export instead.
<proppy> nenolod: yep I know I just uploaded it in current state
<proppy> nenolod: before fixing anything, I'm not the original maintainer
<nenolod> ah ok
<proppy> nenolod: ok let's ok
<proppy> nenolod: ok let's go
<RainCT> persia: nice :)
<RainCT> good night all
<proppy> nenolod: let's fix that svn thing, that an easy one
<proppy> nenolod: thanks for the hint
<nenolod> in debian/rules, right after "# Add here commands to clean up after the build process.", you have -$(MAKE) distclean
<nenolod> you should make sure you have a makefile there and not suppress errors like it does now
<nenolod> (the - makes it suppress errors)
 * persia notes that `[ -f Makefile ] $(MAKE) distclean` is not always the correct check: there may be another reason why distclean fails that should be trapped.
<nenolod> indeed
 * jdong kicks buildds
<nenolod> i think the lintian warning advnce is not necessarily a good set of advice for that case
<nenolod> s/advnce/advice
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Fujitsu> `This should be visually attractive, and could be an ideal place for easter eggs.
<Fujitsu> In the hardy-about-ubuntu spec.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, as long as it's not another "fire up the crackpipes!" easter egg
 * persia thinks easter-eggs take up valuable CD space that could be better used for translations, othernice apps in main, etc.
<nenolod> (the "description" of edgy)
<nenolod> i saw that the other day and was like o_O
<jdong> persia: just think about how many translated phrases we could be saving with aptitude -[v]+ moo!
<proppy> oups I forgot to add revu host when I called dput
<proppy> It uploads on upload.ubuntu.com
<proppy> I hope it will get ignored
<persia> jdong: aptitude doesn't have Super Cow Powers.  apt does.
<jdong> persia: sure... of course it doesn't ;-)
<nenolod> i still use apt-get
<nenolod> go figure
<nenolod> ;p
<persia> nenolod: You're missing out on updated dependency checking and the all-powerful "download" command, which grabs the distributed binary package for inspection.
<Fujitsu> proppy: You'll get a rejection message.
<nenolod> persia, sounds fancy
<jdong> persia: meh unless you're running hardy I doubt you'll need aptitude's dependency power
<proppy> proppy@nekun:~/Desktop/20071027/mumble$ dput revu mumble_1.1.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<proppy> Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de
<proppy> Doing nothing for mumble_1.1.1ubuntu1_source.changes
<proppy> how could I overwrite it ?
<StevenHarperUK_>  Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my Package (easycrypt) on REVU : I currently have 0 Advocation's: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=437
<nenolod> i have indeed heard that it's dependency checking is great
<proppy> bump revision ?
<nenolod> proppy, correct
<proppy> nenolod: should I add ubuntu1~revu1 ?
<Fujitsu> proppy: No, use -f on the dput commandline.
<proppy> like ppa ?
<persia> StevenHarperUK_: Please only advertise your package for review once each day.
<proppy> Fujitsu: ok
<nenolod> proppy, that'll work
<persia> jdong: It's good for sid as well :)
<nenolod> or yeah, manual forcing works too
<jdong> persia: agreed; but for the average user I can't think of any reasons to recommend one over the other
<nenolod> i just have apt-get hammered into my brain
<nenolod> :P
<persia> jdong: `aptitude download` is very handy for users that experience a regression with a backport or update, especially because it can take an optional version argument.  Alternately, `apt-get build-dep` is very handy for developers (including upstream).  Depends on the use case.
 * nixternal loves apt-get build-dep
<nixternal> just installed a new build system so I can do KDE 4 stuff w/o being bothered
 * minghua loves aptitude mainly for its curses UI.
<jdong> persia: apt-get takes versions in the same way though...
<minghua> Comparably, synaptic's UI is really bad. :-(
<proppy> forcing was a bad idea :)
<persia> jdong: But it doesn't let you download a known working version for quick application when testing :)
 * persia thinks minghua spent too much time with dselect
<jdong> persia: apt-get install foobar=1.2.3-4ubuntu5?
<proppy> I can't really figure out when the new upload is being processed
<persia> jdong: metered bandwidth
<jdong> persia: it saves the file in /var/cache/apt/archives implicitly, and doesn't remove it unless you autoclean
<persia> jdong: And autoclean is off by default?
<persia> (and making things "clean" doesn't seem like a good idea to J. Random User?)
<Fujitsu> autoclean isn't automatic, is it?
<nenolod> proppy, it is processed on each 10 minute mark of the hour
<jdong> persia: right, it's off by default
 * persia thought autoclean was automatic: deleting anything not in the current package status lists
<jdong> persia: not that I know of.... I have stale versions here
<proppy> nenolod: another line for marking the new upload showed up
<minghua> persia: Why do you think so?  I've never used dselect.
<nenolod> proppy, right
<persia> jdong: Do you have stale lists in /var/lib/apt/lists/ ?
<nenolod> proppy, the changes go to a mailing list too
<jdong> persia: no, my lists update bi-daily
<jdong> [jdong@jdong:tmp/Starcraft]$ ls /var/cache/apt/archives/*         (10-27 19:52)
<persia> minghua: aptitude curses.  I'm also a fan, but most I've encountered that like it, were dselect fans (similar interface, much weaker relationship handling)
<jdong> /var/cache/apt/archives/apt_0.7.6ubuntu14.1_i386.deb
<jdong> and so on...
<jdong> /var/cache/apt/archives/apt_0.7.6ubuntu14_i386.deb
<jdong> ignore the starcraft part...
<jdong> *cough* bored
<minghua> persia: Hmm...  I must be a too young Debian user, then.
<nenolod> proppy, lintian is still complaining. are you sure you rebuilt the source package? ;)
<minghua> (and so are most aptitude users I know)
<persia> jdong: Well then.  Perhaps there's no good reason to use one over the other.  dist-upgrading with update-manager works better than aptitude anyway.
<jdong> persia: the main advantage I can come up with is unified UI
<persia> jdong: ?
<jdong> persia: Joe Schmoe should not have to know search is under apt-cache, while install is under apt-get
<nenolod> aptitude is indeed more userfriendly
<persia> jdong: Ah.  Yes.  Although I do miss "source" and "build-dep".
<nenolod> but i am stuck in my apt-foo ways ;p
<jdong> persia: I know aptitude has source... it doesn't have build-dep
<proppy> nenolod: I just fixed debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error
<persia> jdong: Also aptitude show is formatted more cleanly than apt-cache show
<proppy> nenolod: with the next upload
<nenolod> proppy, ah. ok.
<proppy> nenolod: wait another 10m :)
<nenolod> proppy, except, lintian still complains about debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error
<nenolod> see http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mumble-0710280200/lintian
<persia> jdong: My aptitude doesn't have source.  It does have "why" though :)
<proppy> nenolod: yep whe have to wait for the next upload
<nenolod> which is why i asked if you forgot to rebuild ;p
<jdong> persia: whoa, it doesn't
<nenolod> proppy, what is mumble anyway?
<proppy> nenolod: upload 2 was only removing .svn
<jdong> persia: I swear, it had it 6 months ago
<minghua> "aptitude why" is a pretty new feature.
<proppy> nenolod: a voice over ip multiuser chatclient and server
 * persia never remembers aptitude source
<proppy> nenolod: a FOSS alternative to teamspeak
<jdong> WTF sharkattack used aptitude source!
<nenolod> proppy, ah, ok.
<persia> minghua: I'd never seen it before.  I'm excited about it :)
<proppy> nenolod: bug #129081
<proppy> if you're interested
<proppy> norsetto put me on this one
<proppy> bot is gone :(
<minghua> persia: I pretty much never use it...  I use aptitude almost exclusively in curses UI (with the exception of update, perhaps).
<proppy> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/129081
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress]
<minghua> There is a new bot, just a less smart one.  :-)
 * minghua pats Ubotwo.
<proppy> nenolod: upload 3 lintian free http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=449
<persia> minghua: I'm thinking of use in scripts - handy to get a list of a dependency map: perhaps when planning syncs, etc.
<nenolod> proppy, great
<persia> proppy: With all of "-iIv" for both binary and source?
<nenolod> proppy, you might consider uploading it to mentors.debian.net
<nenolod> yeah. that's the next step ;p
<proppy> persia: what is -ilv ?
<nenolod> -iIv
<nenolod> not -Ilv
<minghua> persia: http://alioth.debian.org/~fjp/debtree/  # I think you would be interested in this tool
<persia> proppy: As in `lintian -iIv foo.dsc` and `lintian -iIv foo.deb`
<nenolod> proppy, it checks more strictly than what revu checks, basically
<proppy> proppy@nekun:~/Desktop/20071027/mumble$ lintian -iIv mumble_1.1.1ubuntu1.dsc
<proppy> N: Setting up lab in /tmp/umgGDVrMuF ...
<proppy> N: Processing 1 packages...
<proppy> N: ----
<proppy> N: Processing source package mumble (version 1.1.1ubuntu1) ...
<proppy> N: Removing /tmp/umgGDVrMuF ...
<proppy> oups flood
<nenolod> congrats
<nenolod> that's how it should look ;)
<proppy> Firefox can't find the server at mentors.debian.org.
<nenolod> .net
<nenolod> not .org
<persia> proppy: don't forget to check your binary packages as well :)
<proppy> .net
<minghua> You should just run the .changes file through lintian.
 * persia also recommends `linda -v -f long -t E,I,W,X foo.dsc`
<minghua> That way you check both the source and binary packages.
<proppy> persia: cool I'll upload unittest++ as well to mentors.debian.net
<persia> minghua: Depends on your workflow.  I use `debuild -S` and `sbuild`, so .changes doesn't contain the source.  This is also true for pbuilder users, and pbuilder/sbuild are the recommended workflows.
<proppy> persia: finally the DD sponsporing the upload tell me that a lib package not prefixed by lib is not a good idea
<proppy> persia: so I get back to libunittest++-dev scheme
<persia> proppy: Just remember that Ubuntu requires the first new upstream version to be ...-0ubuntu1 and Debian requires ...-1.
<minghua> persia: Really?  My pbuilder results always include source packages.
<nenolod> mine don't
<persia> minghua: Interesting.  I'm not a pbuilder user, but I'm surprised the source is rebuilt: that destroys any signature that might be present.
<minghua> I'm pretty sure I use default pbuilder settings.
<minghua> And I run pbuilder with "pbuilder build xxx.dsc".
<persia> minghua: Defaults may also vary between environments :)
<minghua> It copies the whole source package over.
<minghua> persia: Right.  Maybe a Debian-Ubuntu difference, actually.
<persia> minghua: Right.  It keeps the signature on the .dsc, but it overwrites the signature on .changes.  I suspect it's because Debian wants binary uploads, and Ubuntu wants source uploads.
 * persia requests someone to look at why debtree isn't in Ubuntu, and fix that (at a lower priority than the needs-packaging bugs)
<sladen> persia: cos debtree appeared more recently than the most recent sync from Debian?
<persia> sladen: So it's in queue for hardy sync?  Excellent.  Thanks.
<minghua> persia: It's not even in Debian yet...
<proppy> should I upload source changes or binary changes to mentors?
<minghua> The ITP was filed like two weeks ago IIRC.
<sladen> persia:   http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/  doesn't look like. it
<persia> proppy: You need a combined .changes, with both source and binary.
<proppy> persia: generated with debuild -sa ?
<sladen> persia: debtree is currently just a single shell script
<persia> proppy: Yes.
<proppy> persia: nice
<proppy> persia: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=unittest%2B%2B
<persia> proppy: You might want to make a debian chroot, and run pbuilder there, as debuild -sa will compile against local libraries, etc. so the resulting binary might not work for your Debian mentor.
<proppy> persia: the package has no dependency
 * persia doesn't have the magic tokens to do anything with packages on mentors.debian.net
<proppy> persia: but maybe it will failed with libc and stuff
<minghua> persia, proppy: My impression is that mentors.debian.net accepts source packages only.
<proppy> persia: I will the etch packaging-farm output then
<persia> proppy: How does the static library get compiled?  If it's not produced at buildtime, then it's not considered free code (and yes, there are differences in glibc between Debian and Ubuntu)
<proppy> persia: http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/unittest++/gnulinux/debian/etch/src/
<proppy> persia: can I sign the package once they are builded ?
<persia> proppy: You want to push against a sid build environment, and you'll use debsign to sign afterwards.
<proppy> persia: I will use http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/unittest++/gnulinux/debian/unstable/src/ so
<minghua> I don't think debsign achieves much, as it's not supported by the default package management tools...
<persia> proppy: listed to minghua :)
<persia> s/listed/listen/
<proppy> minghua: the introduction states dput mentors cream_0.32-2_i386.changes
<proppy> minghua: is this a binary changes ?
<minghua> persia: Uh-oh.
<minghua> I'm just a casual commenter...
<minghua> proppy: A .changes file can be either a source upload or binary upload.
<proppy> minghua: oh I see
<proppy> minghua: If there is source is the changes name > this a source upload
<proppy> minghua: If there is i386 in the changes name > this a binary upload ?
<TheMuso> Heya raof.
<raof> Heya
<zul> evening
<raof> Morning :)
<TheMuso> Morning for you maybe. :)
<TheMuso> 8:23PM here in Boston/.
<raof> Ah, you crazy Boston types
<minghua> proppy: You can say that, but it's not exactly technically correct, just a convention of dpkg-buildpackage (and others?).
<TheMuso> Yeah, we are kinda crazy. :)
<raof> Mmmm, pikelets with cinammon sugar
<TheMuso> Getting to go to an UDs and all. :p
<crimsun_> 'lo from earlier, TheMuso.
<TheMuso> UDS
<minghua> proppy: It seems the mentors.debian.net instructions is not clear on that, so I assume if your binary upload is accepted, then it's okay.
<proppy> minghua: ok, I will try to sign the output of packaging-farm then
<minghua> proppy: Regardless, only source packages are shown on mentors.debian.net anyway.
<proppy> ok
<proppy> minghua: so no need to build it in a chroot ?
 * minghua just realize that UDS would overlap with baseball world series.
<zul> yeah boston is going to be crazy
<minghua> proppy: You should always test building your package in a clean chroot before uploading, but no, it's not a strict requirement.
<minghua> proppy: People won't be happy if you don't do that and make some error that would have be caught otherwise, though.
<proppy> minghua: will try dput -f on mentors
<proppy> minghua: yep lintian warning is gone http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=unittest%2B%2B
<proppy> minghua: I building it for etch/lenny/sid/dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy right now
<minghua> proppy: Don't use that URL...  It requires logging in.
<minghua> proppy: It seems http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=unittest%2B%2B works better.
<proppy> minghua: I just wanted to know if I can upload my local versoin instead of the remotely outputed one
<proppy> minghua: thanks
<minghua> proppy: What do you mean by "remotely outputted one"?
<minghua> It shouldn't matter where it's built, since mentors.d.n only cares about source packages.
<proppy> minghua: package outputed by http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
<bddebian> Holy crap, I see REVU is a little full again
<TheMuso> bddebian: Yeah, and hopefully I'll find time this week to attack it.
<minghua> Got to go, the game is starting.  :-P
<LaserJock> evening MOTU Land
<proppy> mumble uploaded !
<persia> good morning LaserJock
<crimsun_> 'evening.
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<proppy> lintian fixed: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=mumble
<proppy> there is a lot of binary lintian warning I need to fix
<proppy> I just get rid of the source one for now
<ScottK> geser: About gnumed, I'd have to study it to have an opinion.  No time (headed for the train station to go to UDS).
<zul> hey LaserJock
<crimsun_> see you up there, ScottK.
<ScottK> Great.
<bddebian> Oh man, crims is going to be there too :-(
<bddebian> Err crimsun_
<ScottK> bddebian: Get in your car and drive.  You can crash in my room
<bddebian> I should have escaped for a couple of days at least :-)
<LaserJock> ScottK: thanks for the email to -motu
<TheMuso> Evening LaserJock, for evening it is here in Boston.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> finally in a sane timezone ;-)
<TheMuso> Sane timezone? What, 15 hours from now? :)
<TheMuso> Or should I say 15 hours ahead?
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: :( , but take your personal time and see what you can change
<zul> yeah LaserJock is just now in an insane timezone ;)
<zul> muhahaha
<LaserJock> persia: no need to apologize ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, so are we going to have voip for Boston?
<LaserJock> anybody heard anything?
 * persia thinks it's been unusually quiet in preparation for this summit
<LaserJock> I really kinda need to be in on a few discussions
<LaserJock> it'd be bad if there was no VOIP or anything
 * bddebian doesn't need to be on anything
<LaserJock> there's a "Future of Edubuntu" BOF that'll be quite important
<proppy> ScottK: I may have some time this week, if you still need my modest python skills
<bddebian> :-)
 * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
<crimsun_> it'll be interesting attending my one and only UDS as a non-dev.
<proppy> ScottK: since the viewvc package is waiting for DD for looking at my comments
<TheMuso> LaserJock: I think things have been quiet, possibly in part due to the amount of bandwidth we have available here.
<proppy> ScottK: (for the getdeb against backport diff)
<LaserJock> hopefully gobby will be available
<LaserJock> crimsun_: yeah, that's kinda ironic, eh? :-)
<LaserJock> it's really much more fun
<LaserJock> UDSs are so hectic
<crimsun_> not so much ironic as 'perfect'
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Indeed, but fun.
<LaserJock> heh, yes
<LaserJock> man, I'm really wishing I could be there
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Now you know how I've felt the last two UDSs.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I had a good run though
<LaserJock> 3 in a row
<ajmitch> better than most
<LaserJock> time to step aside and let the real developers have some fun
<ajmitch> but you are a real developer, remember?
<LaserJock> nah, I just fake it
<bddebian> crimsun_: Why non-dev?
<LaserJock> it's kind of a bummer though, seems like there will actually be a Doc team presence and a fair amount of MOTUs
<ajmitch> more than I do
<crimsun_> bddebian: I stepped down at the end of gutsy.
<LaserJock> he's now MOTU (Emeritus)
<LaserJock> ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Lucky you. This is only my second.
<bddebian> Man am I out of the loop
<TheMuso> Yet that is still more than most.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe I should get that title
<bddebian> Well if everyone else is stepping out, maybe it's time I did too
<LaserJock> Andrew Mitchell, Distinguished Chair of Zope Packaging and MOTU (Emeritus) ?
<TheMuso> bddebian: Don't be stupid.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I was never chair of anything
<ajmitch> & I wasn't enough of a MOTU to claim any emeritus title
<Ubotwo> ajmitch: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
<crimsun_> bddebian: well, stepping down doesn't imply leaving the project
<ajmitch> silly bot
<crimsun_> bddebian: (e.g., my MC term was one year, and I don't have the resources to devote to it)
<zul> crimsun_, you are just a slacker and dont know it yet ;)
<crimsun_> pfft, I know I'm a slacker :-)
<TheMuso> crimsun_: Try workaholic.
<zul> crimsun_, sound broke because of you
<ajmitch> crimsun_: there's no expiry date on LP for it though
<zul> hah hah...new jersey is going to loose
<bddebian> TheMuso: Why is that being stupid?  Dealing with Debian is ridiculous and this place is crazy anymore :-)
<TheMuso> crimsun_ is still trying to find a suitable soul to torment and continue his work.
<zul> hah crimsun_ good luck you would have to be crazy to take on alsa
<zul> which is kind of ironic
<TheMuso> bddebian: Well 1, I don't think dealing with Dbian is rediculous, you just need to be able to wear the tirades from some DDs.
<TheMuso> 2, thsi place is still as normal as ever IMO, these sort of things are sometimes to be expected.
<bddebian> Sez you.. ;-P
<LaserJock> there's a lot of merging and syncing needing to be done
<LaserJock> I'm kinda excited
 * zul is busy porting..
<imbrandon> got me an xbox kernle yet?
<zul> imbrandon: nope doesnt build cleanly and i havent figured out why, maybe after porting xen 2.6.23
<TheMuso> zul: Where do you get stuck? I was looking at this for someone a while back. Wanted Ubuntu on their xbox, but wasn't aware of the amount of work required.
<imbrandon> hrm,  can you poke me against the source your building it from ? i am running a local copy here fine
<TheMuso> Some of the code is baaaaaad!!
<imbrandon> from a gutsy kernel
<TheMuso> Which is why its not in mainline.
<zul> TheMuso: its some bits from smp.h i know that
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i have it "working" but just not building the ubuntu way
<TheMuso> I'd have to have another look. Granted I was doing it with an older gutsy kernel, but I do remember getting stuck.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Right.
<imbrandon> and its actualy being looked at for mainline, most is already there, well most the pci stuff needed
<TheMuso> Right.
<zul> imbrandon: my long term sanity is a bit more important right now
<imbrandon> now we can have a ps3 and xbox kernel :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: With any luck the 360 stuff will also be included...
<imbrandon> zul np, thats why i offered to do some of the work too, btw you see what benc said about fatx ?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, its mostly the same stuff
<imbrandon> but yea
<zul> imbrandon: nope
<TheMuso> imbrandon: What did BenC have to say about FATX?
<imbrandon> zul we're a go to prep it for hardy lum
<imbrandon> TheMuso, basicly "yes" but you gotta do the work
<LaserJock> BenC said I was a FAT what?!?! ;-)
<imbrandon> in other words
<zul> imbrandon; oh goody...then that work is done already
<zul> just have to port it to 2.6.23/2.6.24 then ;)
<imbrandon> sweet
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Let me guess. You want an xbox deriv kernel in the archive? :)
<TheMuso> lol
<imbrandon> is .24 gonna be what lands in hardy ?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yup, why not, there is a ps3 one on ports.u.c :)
<jroes> anyone ever seen/know the cause of this?  http://pastebin.com/m30f63931
<zul> imbrandon: maybe, there is a bof on monday about it, hopefully voip wil work so I can listen in
<jroes> looks like the feisty repo is busted if you start from a clean slate and do a apt-get install sun-java6-jdk
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Cool. I can get my hands on a 1.6 soft modded xbox if testers are wanted.
<imbrandon> nice, i'll try too also , not that i can contrib much yet
<imbrandon> TheMuso, perfect, i use a 1.6 and a 1.2 softmodded ones
<zul> although I hope its going to stay with 2.6.23 because im lazy
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> xen i386 half way done..
<TheMuso> I think if stability is important for hardy, it may stick with .23, to give more time for stabilising.
<imbrandon> maybe this will actualy make me learn the ways of the kernel team this cycle ;)
<proppy> jroes: Could not create the Java virtual machine.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: is there anything you *can't* do?
<proppy> jroes: let's try apt-get install sun-java6-bin
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hahaha TONS
<jroes> yeah that was a dependency
<proppy> jroes: or apt-get install ia32-sun-java6-bin
<zul> LaserJock: he probably cant do a jig
<jroes> that should have installed/configured beforehand
<proppy> jroes: the dependencies failed to install
<imbrandon> mv debian-40r1-powerpc-businesscard.iso /storage/iso
<imbrandon> err
<TheMuso> heh
<proppy> jroes: then all the others installations failed because the package they depends on failed to install
<zul> imbrandon: nont hat jig
<jroes> output of apt-get install sun-java6-bin  http://pastebin.com/m6f1218f4
<jroes> Could not create Java virtual machine again
<imbrandon> zul nope, dont plan to, but learning the processes would be nice
<proppy> jroes: and ia32-sun-java6-bin ?
<zul> imbrandon: coolio
<proppy> jroes: apt-get install ia32-sun-java6-bin
<zul> imbrandon: its a step learning curve
<imbrandon> i bet
<jroes> obsoleted, etc. message
<jroes> pastebin?
<imbrandon> just the tiny tiny bit ived touched so far had my head spinning
<jroes> http://pastebin.com/m596ef1c6
 * TheMuso is hoping to get a PPC RT kernel happening this cycle, which means changing the custom flavour infrastructure slightly I would think.
<proppy> jroes: #bug #122325
<proppy> jroes: bug #122325
<jroes> darn, guess there's no bot that gives me the url :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso, btw if you have a xbox memorycard to usb adapter ( even homemade like mine ) there is a tst lum deb zul made to read fatx
<imbrandon> i use it here, works good
 * jroes googles :)
<jdong> ubotu's down
<jdong> Ubotwo doesn't trigger on that
<Ubotwo> jdong: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command.
<jdong> like that :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Don't even need that. Just need to make a fatx parttion, which is easy enough after rabbing and building tools.
<zul> imbrandon: part of the deal is you have to send me an xbox and i *might* use to run linux on it
<TheMuso> Then its a matter of loading the module and stress testing.
<LjL> jdong: launchpad bug 122325
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 122325 in sun-java6 "package sun-java6-bin 6-00-2ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122325
<TheMuso> zul: As I said, I can help with testing.
<jdong> LjL: ah, that's how to do it
<LjL> jdong: yeah i don't know how to configure to just react on "bug". what happened to ubotu anyway?
<jdong> LjL: I'm not sure myself.. seveas is nowhere to be found
<LjL> jdong: it's not still down from yesterday when the servers split?
<proppy> jroes: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/122325
<jroes> well damn, that's nice :|
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 122325 in sun-java6 "package sun-java6-bin 6-00-2ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jdong> LjL: could very well be!
<jroes> yeah I ended up finding it thanks proppy :)
<elkbuntu> LjL, yeah, it is
<LjL> ugh.
<proppy> jroes: did you accept the license argument ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Next thing we need, is XBox partition support, for both types, in the kernel.
<imbrandon> zul i'll see if i can, btw you can still play xbox games on it with linux loaded :) otherwise most wouldent do it
<jroes> yup, it came up in console
<jroes> I'll give it another try I guess
<jroes> I don't know how to get back to my orig state though -- just apt-get install -f ?
<imbrandon> TheMuso, thats the main patch zul is trying to get compiled right
<zul> imbrandon: dude i was joking ;)
<Fujitsu> zul: What's happening wrt. the tty1->xvc0 default console change in Hardy? Because of that, Gutsy stuff is thoroughly broken by default.
<proppy> LjL: show the bot code !
<imbrandon> TheMuso, was the pci bug fixed and the partition support for both kinds
 * TheMuso had to fit a bigger drive into his friend's xbox, and mod it for them.
<zul> Fujitsu: i have a kernel patch with 2.6.22 which fixes it I think
<imbrandon> oz_whatever its called
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Dunno about the pci bug
<zul> ill put it up soon, or maybe in a ppa
<Fujitsu> zul: It's not difficult to mangle the hooks to get it working otherwise.
<proppy> jroes: you can try --reinstall too
<LjL> proppy: it's somewhere on launchpad :)
<proppy> LjL: oh I though it was your bot :)
<Fujitsu> And there are a couple of extra hwclock bits that need killing to get Gutsy booting.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea something about the pci enumeration on an xbox locks up stock kernels so in mainline there is already a IFDEF patch
<TheMuso> imbrandon: As for partitioning, the standard xbox partitions, and the partition format that the XBPartitioner utility uses.
<imbrandon> err code/patch
<TheMuso> ah ok
<proppy> Ubotwo: launchpad people proppy
<Ubotwo> proppy: Error: "launchpad" is not a valid command.
<proppy> Ubotwo: help
<Ubotwo> proppy: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
<zul> Fujitsu: true its a novell thing we inherited for gutsy, we are going back to redhat for hardy
<LjL> you're asking for too much
<proppy> Ubotwo: help lauchpad
<Ubotwo> proppy: Error: There is no command "lauchpad".
<LjL> proppy: it is my bot in that it's running on my computer, but it's seveas' code just like ubotu
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I've researched this stuff pretty deep, after finding that the only distro thats remotely up to date for xbox is gentoo.
<TheMuso> And even then, only with kernel 2.4.
<Fujitsu> zul: OK, but somebody should still fix the Gutsy hwclock hooks.
<proppy> LjL: oh ok
<LjL> proppy: it's not a command, just a trigger word
<imbrandon> TheMuso, yea this is all for 2.6
<TheMuso> imbrandon: yeah I know.
<TheMuso> Its impossible to run 2.4 now.
<imbrandon> and yea thats the main reason i want to do this, i hate gentoo
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> gentoo is what i have installed on them now
<TheMuso> Same here, and 2.4 is ancient.
<imbrandon> with xromwell.xbe loading them
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i dident know you were a xbox hacker too or i would have poked you long ago heheh
<TheMuso> right.
<imbrandon> i've been messing with this stuff almost since ubuntu came out
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Only because people have asked me which has tweaked my interest after all of that.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: If you want to do a deriv, I'm happy to help.
<imbrandon> i cant count how many xboxes i've moded
<TheMuso> I've also been pondering setting up d-i for doing the installer.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, sweet, yea if zul can do our kernel magic , i've pointed him to all the right patches, we can get the rest done easy
<TheMuso> d-i, because its easier to change than ubiquity.
<imbrandon> on ports.u.c
<TheMuso> and less resource hungry.
<imbrandon> yea i'd much rather use d-i
<imbrandon> because of the 64mb ram
<TheMuso> The only bits that would need work are getting d-i over a network connection via ssh or the main tty, and the partitioning/filesystem magic, as well as bootloading.
<zul> uh have I been unknowlingly volunteered for something ;)
<TheMuso> zul: Not afaik.
<imbrandon> and we can take most of the d-i patches from xebian, even if they are old they would still be usefull
<imbrandon> zul nope, not at all
<TheMuso> imbrandon: xebian didn't use d-i did it?
<TheMuso> I never installed it.
<imbrandon> well kinda, it used parts of it if you did a "native" install not a loopback one
<imbrandon> most softmoded xboxes will require a loopback install
<TheMuso> yep, but I think we can do it all in d-i.
<imbrandon> on modchiped ones can use a native install
<imbrandon> only*
<TheMuso> Just a matter of doing something with partman to handle the xbox use case.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> and a fatx module loaded on the cdimage
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Nice to know someone else has been thinking about this.
<imbrandon> to read the /dev/hda50 ( e: ) drive
<TheMuso> Yep.
 * TheMuso is not keen on using the e drive for loopback.
<TheMuso> I reckon if users have it, use f or G.
<TheMuso> But leave it up to them of course.
<imbrandon> well personaly mine still use the stock 10GB hdd's
<imbrandon> so i only have e:
<TheMuso> Ah.
<TheMuso> As I said, if the option is there, make it available as a choice.
<imbrandon> the only bad thing that i dont like about loopback installs and i got arround it on gentoo by making a seperate /home is 2GB filesize limit
<imbrandon> eg rootfs.img or whatever can only be 2GB
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> but if you make a rootfs.img and homefs.img etc youy can use multi 2gb files
<imbrandon> not sure if there is a clean way to combine them unless we did some lvm magic , but with 2.6.x that might work
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah, with LVM, extend a volume over more than one file.
<imbrandon> yea, that would be the way to go imho
<imbrandon> because fatx was a stripped down win32 fat32
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Again, I'm very much willing to help.
<TheMuso> yep.
<imbrandon> that only supports 2gb files
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Actually, are you sure? My friend ripped an entire game ISo, which was 6GB, and it was split into only two files.
<TheMuso> Or, actually, I can't really remember, but I thought 4GB was the limit.
<imbrandon> hrm , maybe it was a limitation in the fatx 2.4 driver then because i have xbox iso's that are huge too
 * imbrandon thinks
<imbrandon> yea i have some 4.3 gb iso's of xbox games and even one 6gb one ( tiger woods 2007 )
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> so maybe it was just a limitation of the old 2.4 fatx driver
<imbrandon> i'll have to poke into that some more
<TheMuso> imbrandon: And you ripped them as ISOs, onto a FATX FS?
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> err actauly no
<TheMuso> Me too.
<imbrandon> shit thats not how it works
<TheMuso> right.
<imbrandon> it rips them into a /games on e: all seperate files
<TheMuso> Well I have games I can put my hands on, and a box with a 200GB HD.
<TheMuso> So I can test.
<imbrandon> then you use like quix to make the iso
<TheMuso> Well a new version of DVD2XBOX can do entire ISO rips.
<TheMuso> As in, like the dd command for Linux.
<imbrandon> ya i have the new version too on it and xbmc but havent messed with it yet
<imbrandon> ahh nice
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> And creates an xbe file to run the game from the ISO, mounting it on D as a lop device.
<TheMuso> loop
<imbrandon> open xdk can almost compile xbmc now too , yay \0/
<TheMuso> Cool!
<TheMuso> Once it does, I'm sure XBMC will be more freely available.
<imbrandon> soon legal xbmc downloads ;)
<imbrandon> yea
<TheMuso> yep
<imbrandon> yea all games have a "default.xbe" afaik
 * TheMuso needs to see if he can find an ATA100 cable that would work properly with the XBOX's design
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yep they do.
<imbrandon> infact from what i rember them saying xbe's are very close to elf format
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon> and the stock xbox bios is win2k though
<TheMuso> yep
 * TheMuso can't believe that Microsoft decided to totally change CPU core architecture for the 360.
<imbrandon> honestly i wish they still manufactured them
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i dont think it will be toooo long before we see china knockoffs though like the nes / snes htat are 100% compatable
<zul> TheMuso: im not surprised
<TheMuso> imbrandon: With a faster CPU and more ram perhaps, but yeah.
<imbrandon> i've seen hardware hacks to add more ram, its actual standard ram just sodered onboard afaik
<TheMuso> zul: From a money/security standpoint, maybe, but compatibility? No way
<imbrandon> and infact i thought about flashoing my tsop too
<TheMuso> imbrandon: But specific types of ram only.
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> And, I think, only particular Xbox versions, i.e not 1.6 afaicr.
<imbrandon> i've never done a chipped box, i always did the splintercel exploit, flashing the tsop with cromwell could be cool
<imbrandon> yea 1.6 are really limited , the rest are good to go
<TheMuso> thats only on earlier versions right?
<TheMuso> But its hard to get one second hand that you know te version number of.
<imbrandon> nah tsop can be flashed on any of them, and splintercell works on any of them
<imbrandon> TheMuso, just ask the manufature date, you can mostly tell from that
<TheMuso> I know the splinter cell works on all, but the tsop works on all as well? Didn't know that.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: yeah.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Doesn't tsop flashing require soldering?
 * LaserJock feels so ungeeky watching this conversation
<imbrandon> yea the tsop works on all too, but 1.6 instead of flashing 2 points you have to soder 6
<imbrandon> yea
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Right.
<imbrandon> thats why i never have done it yet, but i figured what the hell
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<imbrandon> pluss the 1.6 only have a 256k bios alll the others are 1mb
 * LaserJock have never had a gaming console
<imbrandon> err tsop
 * Fujitsu notes he has never even touched an XBox, let alone modded or considered installing something else on one.
<TheMuso> Soldering/mod chipping is beyond me, but I can still do HD/cable changes.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh, same.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: so I'm not alone!
<LaserJock> man I remember wanting to have an Nintendo
 * TheMuso only knows this stuff for a friend's sake.
<imbrandon> heh TheMuso make a usb to xbox converter, very easy to make from an old controler, will let you use a usb stick as a memory card, then no hdd swap needed
<LaserJock> but never got one
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah, bt bigger HDs.
<imbrandon> np, just mod the retail hdd, then dd it to a new one
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> My friend wanted to do Linux, HD games, and XBox Live. Now that was fun getting all that sorte.d
<imbrandon> i've gotten to where i can mod a retail xbox in under 10 minutes and never open the case :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that sounds so black market of you ;-)
<imbrandon> i was buying "broken" ones for $50 bux there for a while and moding them and selling them for 200 :)
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<imbrandon> you know the WHOLE reason i strted modding xboxes? not to run linux, that was just a perk, it was to run all my old NES and SNES roms on a TV with a real controler
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> started*
<TheMuso> lol
<imbrandon> that and to play "
<imbrandon> backup games" too :P
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon> $1 DVD-R + $6 Blockbuster Rental == cheap xbox games
<TheMuso> The next thing my friend wants to do is connect his Xbox to his LCD monitor.
<imbrandon> plus its classic to watch my friends face when i take one of their PS1 games and put it in my xbox and play it
<TheMuso> Which requires a component -> vga box of some sort
<TheMuso> imbrandon: lol
<TheMuso> My friend does the same with his Sega Mega CD games. :)
<imbrandon> yea, you can actualy soder a vga cable somehow on the intenals of the vid contoler, i''ve seen it online but never tried it
<TheMuso> He doesn't wanna go that far.
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> As he said he's considering a 360.
<TheMuso> And willing to loose modability for a while.
<imbrandon> a converter will suck because it will cause "lag" between what he see's on screen and whats going on on the controler
<imbrandon> it may only be a sec but for games that sucks
<TheMuso> Really? Didn't know that.
<imbrandon> i did a svideo to vga to try it on my computer monitor once to record
<imbrandon> the conversion makes "lag"
<TheMuso> imbrandon: In this case, he's thinking component to VGA.
<imbrandon> yea that might be diffrent, dunno
<TheMuso> Which is possible with the right box.
<imbrandon> i wouldent spend a ton of money on it till he is sure though
<TheMuso> Yeah thats what I said.
<TheMuso> And even then, he's thinking of te 360.
<TheMuso> Which has native VGA.
<imbrandon> hehe yea but no native linux "yet"
<imbrandon> afaik
<TheMuso> Unless you have a particular kernel version, plus bootloader, plus appropriate CDs.
<imbrandon> ahh
<TheMuso> imbrandon: The furthest they've gotten so far, is hardware and software to do a timing attack on the box to be able to force a downgrade to the exploitable kernel.
<imbrandon> brb time to grab some mt dew then i got to start a ppc install, someone just broght me a old imac thats a step up from what i'm using
<imbrandon> TheMuso, nice
<TheMuso> yeah.
<TheMuso> have fun with the install.
<imbrandon> TheMuso, i might have to look for an xbox360 second hand
<imbrandon> just to play with it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: heh try and get one with the exploitable kernel, can't remember what ver atm
<persia> No.  That doesn't work either.  23 > 2.3.  Hrm.
<persia> Hurrah!  Everyone seems to be back :)
<persia> bddebian: The problem is that upstream doesn't add extra dots in their version, so there's no way to distinguish 22.3 from 2.23.  It will need some munging...
<bddebian> Aye, I have several games packages that have that problem :)
<bddebian> That's why I was playing with the uversionmunge thing but have no idea wtf I'm doing :-(
<bddebian> I'm not quite sure what this: s/^/0.0./ is trying to do.  If I use that in the uversionmangle I get back .00223
<persia> bddebian: s/^/0.0./ looks to me like it's inserting 0.0. at the beginning of the string, but that's an odd match to your results...
<bddebian> Aye, I need 1st digit, . , then remaining digits
 * persia grumbles that perl reinvented regex syntax for no clear reason
<bddebian> Can I do something like s/(\d+)/(\d).(\d+)/ ?
<persia> bddebian: I'm struggling with perl regex syntax, but I think you need $1 and $2 there (of course, nothing is working for me at all)
<persia> Erm.  There -> The replacement term
<bddebian> I suck at so much of this crap, I really don't know why I spend so much of my free time doing it. :-(
<persia> bddebian: s/(\d)/$1\./
<persia> That adds a '.' after the first (and only the first) digit in a string.
<bddebian> Oh nice
<bddebian> Let me try it
<bddebian> Well that seems to work but it's saying 2.23 is newer than 2.3 :-(
<persia> bddebian: Right.  I'm an idiot.  How to loop...
<bddebian> But 2.23 isn't > than 2.3 is it?
<persia> Well, the cheap shot is s/(\d)/$1\./g, but there should be a way to skip the last entry.  Also, since 23 > 3, no.
<bddebian> Frick it's a matching problem :-(  Using (\d2) I get 2.2 but it keeps "finding" 223 since it's the biggest number.  Hrm
<persia> bddebian: s/(\d)(?!\n)/$1\./g
 * persia sings hosannas to the perfect regex implementations of awk and sed
<bddebian> Hmm, close, I got an extra period in there.  I got 2.3. instead of 2.3
<blueyed> I'm trying my first merge currently. Where am I supposed to push the result to? Create a bug and attach it or to REVU?
<blueyed> http://dad.dunnewind.net/virtualbox-ose/ btw
<persia> Ah.  Right.  You're not newline terminated.  Try s/(\d)(?!\.)/$1\./g
<persia> blueyed: Create a bug, and attach the debdiff between the Debian revision and your candidate revision.
<persia> blueyed: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, under Preparing New Revisions for exception cases.
<bddebian> persia: Still the same, do I have to escape the period? i.e. (?!\\.) ?
<persia> bddebian: I wouldn't think you'd need to escape the period more than you'd need to escape the \d, but perhaps.
<bddebian> Nah, still getting 2.3.
<bddebian> :-(
<persia> bddebian: Don't you want 2.3?
<persia> It's better than 223.
<bddebian> Aye, but I'm getting '2.3.'
<bddebian> I need '2.3' :-)
<persia> bddebian: nexuiz-2.3..zip?
<bluefoxicy> 14012 bluefox   19   0 1025m 482m  20m S    7 25.6  14:02.72 thunderbird-bin
<bluefoxicy>  5098 bluefox   15   0  765m 163m  24m S    2  8.7  74:27.41 firefox-bin
<persia> bddebian: How about the far simpler s/(\d)\d/$1\./g
<bluefoxicy> What is with the huge virtual space o_O
<persia> nevermind.  That doesn't really help...
<bddebian> persia: Perfect but man, that seems wrong :_)
<persia> bddebian: It is wrong.
<blueyed> persia: the sponsor would then get the debian version, apply the debdiff and upload it?
<bddebian> blueyed: Yes
<Hobbsee> ScottK: good mail
<jdong> bluefoxicy: what do you expect from a product line named after dinosaurs?
<bluefoxicy> jdong:  lol
<bluefoxicy> jdong:  even with no swap usage though, it's always like 8 gigs VMA 5 megs resident
<bluefoxicy> does it map my whole hard disk into RAM?
<jdong> that's really odd
<persia> bddebian: Hrm.  There's clearly a difference between perl -pe and watch files.  Further, the info I can find about perl regex syntax appears to recommend using a while loop.  How about two rules: one to generate either 2.2.3. or 2.3., and the other to strip the final '.'.  Delimit with ; in uversionmangle
<bddebian> persia: That's the problem, it shouldn't even be getting nexuiz-223.zip, I want nexuiz-23.zip but it will probably always get 223.zip since it's > than 23.zip
<persia> bddebian: Right.  So, you need to uversionmangle to get 2.3 or 2.2.3.  Currently you have a string that matches "2.3." or "2.2.3.", which isn't enough.
<persia> (s/(\d)/$1\./g)
<persia> So, you need another rule to mangle away the final '.'.  Unfortunately, perl uses $ for so many other things that it doesn't match the end-of-line (as in any sensible implementation), so I'm having fun trying to determine the next rule.
<bddebian> persia: But does uscan return all of the files from the site, or just the "largest" number ?
<persia> bddebian: It's supposed to try to match all the strings from the available files at that location, and then conditionally download the most recent.
<bddebian> Ahh
<persia> bddebian: I've just been doing it wrong.  Try 's/(\d)(?!$)/$1\./g
<bddebian> persia: Works
<persia> bddebian: My apologies.  perl regex syntax is special :)
<bddebian> What the hell are you apologizing for?  You are a stud! :)  I could have worked on that for 10 years and never gotten it. :-(
<imbrandon> anyone else having issues getting to google.com , i can get anywhere else
<persia> imbrandon: Point at another country mirror.  it'll likely work.  There are few that are better geodistributed.
<bddebian> Bah, I'm heading for bed.  Thanks again persia
 * Hobbsee poaches some merges
<Hobbsee> should probably do the main ones first, but oh welll
<imbrandon> evening Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi brandon
 * minghua is confused:  Why does python-numpy in gutsy depend on both python2.4 and python2.5?
<Hobbsee> minghua: er?
<Hobbsee> ookay?
 * persia grumbles that jp.archive.ubuntu.com is having internal service errors.
<minghua> Hobbsee: On Debian it doesn't, and the patch between Debian and Ubuntu doesn't give a clue (they are the same upstream version, so change is pretty minimal).
<Hobbsee> minghua: shlibdeps screwup?
<Hobbsee> or someone who screwed up, when changing to py5?
<minghua> Hobbsee: And it doesn't make much sense either, considering python (>=2.4) and python (< 2.6) are also in the dependency.
<Hobbsee> minghua: right.
<minghua> Okay... Launchpad bug 138995.
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 138995 in python-numpy "python-numpy incorrectly depends directly on python2.4 and python2.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138995
<persia> minghua: Blame python-central and the lack of automated archive rebuilds for universe
<bluefoxicy> k if anyone cares
<bluefoxicy> Total Writable:  104240KB Total Executable:  40956KB Total Read-only:  360644KB Total length:  505840KB
<bluefoxicy> That's what my firefox looks like.
<bluefoxicy> If you want the tool, I'll be up tomorrow some time.
 * minghua is not going to blame anything.
<Fujitsu> bluefoxicy: Not sure what this has to do with MOTU... and that's normal Fiefox behaviour.
<minghua> I don't know about python packaging.
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  no idea.  I don't know where this kind of development-esque discussion goes.
<bluefoxicy> Fujitsu:  still, 360MB of read-only mappings O_o
<bluefoxicy> 400000KB of that  address space is non-writable x.x  Anyway sleep time
<minghua> Hobbsee, persia:  Any objections against my changing that bug to "confirmed"?
<persia> bluefoxicy: You've shared your mozilla-based app memory usage a couple times.  Are you reporting a bug, testing a candidate solution, or seeking others thoughts on what might be the cause towards a patch?
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: in a bug report, or somewhere useful.
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: if you want to rant, try #ubuntu-ranting.
<persia> minghua: None: you also encountered the issue, so it's not a unique report.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  Mostly feeling out to figure out if it should be considered a bug, or if anyone should care
<persia> bluefoxicy: You care.  Therefore it's a bug.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Of course, if you report it, you'll be obligated to support anyone trying to fix it.
<bluefoxicy> heh
<bluefoxicy> It's 1am, I need sleep
<persia> bluefoxicy: Also, discussion of whether something is a bug, etc. is probably better done on #ubuntu-bugs.  The people there are more likely to be familiar with other's experiences, and with the bug guidelines (and you'll see many of the same nicks)
<bluefoxicy> persia:  ah, thanks
<_nand_> hi!
<_nand_> I have a question about REVU: should we ask someone to review a submitted package, or should we wait? I see several uploaded packages without any comments...
<persia> _nand_: REVU season hasn't officially started yet, so the reviewers aren't tracking all the uploads.  If you can ask for a review (please no more than once a day), or wait.  I'd suggest asking.
<persia> _nand_: Please be patient if someone doesn't respond right away: the main focus now is the developer summit, and planning for the next release.  It may be a bit before people have time to look at new packages.
<_nand_> persia: ah, I didn't know about a revu season!
<_nand_> persia: that's right.
<persia> _nand_: There are regular REVU days (currently scheduled for Mondays) starting after the development summit, and ending shortly before feature freeze.  I'm referring to that as "REVU season", although I've not seen the term used previously.
<_nand_> So if anyone have some time, I'd like some comments of the following upload : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=422 . Otherwise I'll wait :)
<_nand_> persia: Ok. I didn't see that mentionned on the wiki... Or I have just overlooked it!
<persia> _nand_: I don't know that it's written on the wiki.  It's not exactly a policy, just recent practice.  The scheduling of REVU days is a fixed agenda item for MOTU meetings, and subject to change at any meeting.
<_nand_> persia: In fact, I was concerned because I saw some uploaded packages from september/august, without any comments/action on it...
<persia> _nand_: I don't have time for a full review right now, but quickly: you'll want to use an Ubuntu revision number, target an Ubuntu release, and provide manpages.  The .desktop file isn't compliant with current standards, and if you're not providing a shared library (as in for other clients), you probably want to install it in a private directory.
<_nand_> persia: Ok thanks for the input!
<persia> _nand_: That's because the last feature freeze was 16th August.  REVU has been largely ignored since then, as none of the candidates could be suitable for upload.
<_nand_> persia: ahh ok! So revu is not a package black hole :)
<persia> _nand_: No, not a black hole at all.  You might consider the analogy of leaving a field fallow for a while, so that the crop is richer when it is next inspected.
<_nand_> persia: eheh I like the analogy
<_nand_> I'll update my package
<drsatyri> hello all
<drsatyri> could i trouble someone for a moment of their time?
<Hobbsee> !someone
<Ubotwo> A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?
<drsatyri> well im gonna try to merge a debian package
<drsatyri> and i just wanted to make sure if this was the right place to be IF i did have a question
<drsatyri> if ive read up about it right i should be able to do it, but
<Hobbsee> yes
<drsatyri> cuz sometimes you get into irc and people idle
<drsatyri> irc. of all places.
<Hobbsee> well, it is a weekend
<drsatyri> and 2am where im at, thats why i wanted to make sure :P
<drsatyri> what are "diff conflict markers"? is this a character i should be recognizing in the file?
<persia> drsatyri: It should be clear from the file containing the conflict markers.  If it's not clear, you probably want to play around with text files and diff a bit before attempting a merge.  Open the file in your favorite text editor, and have a look.
<drsatyri> <<<<<<< kdeedu-4:3.5.8-0ubuntu1
<drsatyri> thats what im looking for i assume
<persia> drsatyri: That looks about right.  You'll want to ensure total file integrity on completion, so be careful for any surrounding context lines.
<drsatyri> now if its "ubuntu", that snippet is what is missing from the original debian package?
<LaserJock> drsatyri: you're wanting to merge KDE Edu?
<drsatyri> well im really just learning how
<drsatyri> but yeah
<LaserJock> cool
<drsatyri> thanks, ive tried before but got really frustrated
<drsatyri> yeah ok, i think ive got the part i was stumped on before
<persia> drsatyri: One thing to keep in mind is that the MoM output is just a guideline.  The important part is to understand the variation, replicate what must be preserved, and drop what may be dropped.  If the consolidated version isn't helpful, you may gain insight from looking at the different versions directly.
<drsatyri> like whatevers in the orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> also
<LaserJock> KDE Edu 3.5.8 was in Ubuntu before Debian
<Hobbsee> that should be a sync or so, i think
<drsatyri> it looks like it
<persia> Is there a sync bug filed?
<drsatyri> lemme check
<drsatyri> i picked one at random
<persia> drsatyri: It's best practice to check for bugs first.  If there's a sync bug, there's no need to merge.  Also, people working on merges tend to file merge bugs.
<drsatyri> it looks like there isnt one
<drsatyri> the manual said to post a bug with a specific format, and assign it to the sponsors
<drsatyri> so i guess id do that now
<persia> drsatyri: In that case, if there's nothing to merge, you'll want to request a sync.  (Right)
<LaserJock> drsatyri: it's good to test it out first
<LaserJock> grabbing the Debian source package and building it
<drsatyri> ah, ill give that a shot
<drsatyri> man, it has a lot of dependencies
<LaserJock> yeah, it's probably gonna be a bit of a compile
<drsatyri> i think its gonna need me to recompile kdelibs too
<Fujitsu> I'm currently trying to rebase our mplayer package on the Debian one, but there are huge configuration system differences. Ours uses normal dpkg conf-files, while the Debian one sticks a debconf-mungeable section in the middle. The question of whether to replace an incompatible config file defaults to false, and isn't shown by default. Anybody have any ideas what I should do? Bump the priority of that question?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, well re-basing off debian is always a goodthing imho, but also look isnt there a debianmultimedia.org mplayer we've been merging too ?
<imbrandon> i dont rember right off
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Our mplayer diverged from anywhere else years ago, and I believe Debian's is similar to debianmultimedia's.
<imbrandon> ahh ok, yea i would atlaste give it a go and get some feedback, the myth guys will likely be the ones to ask as they hevily use it in mythtv
<imbrandon> heavily*
<Fujitsu> Do they!?
<imbrandon> yea thats the default player is mplayer , alsong with qt graphics
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> kplayer?
<imbrandon> ugh the search for tinyx/kdrive for debian/ubuntu sucks
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Looks like mythdvd is all that uses mplayer...
<imbrandon> the tv playback is mplayer based too iirc
<imbrandon> its been quite a while since i looked at the code though
<imbrandon> wtf did tinyx just go away ?
<elmargol> you can choose between vlc xine and mplayer
<elmargol> on mythbuntu
 * persia considers disabling the gutsy schroot configuration, to reduce multiple builds
<Fujitsu> persia: Upgraded your primary system to Hardy yet?
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm severely tempted.  I suspect it'll stop crashing every couple hours if I do.  I'm a little worried about the tex situation though: I suspect it'd be a headache to be upgraded as soon as the buildds start catching up.
<Fujitsu> persia: I upgraded this morning, and just left the old tex hanging around.
<persia> Fujitsu: Are there any new goodies yet?
<Fujitsu> persia: New crack (up to f* :P)
<Fujitsu> Hopefully an unstable system
<persia> Anything good?
<Fujitsu> Nothing particularly.
 * persia likes an unstable system: my hardware seems to detect the distribution stability bit incorrectly
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think I'll wait then.  Updated devscripts would tempt me (no need to s/gutsy/hardy/ for changelogs), as would different video drivers.
<Fujitsu> New xorg hasn't built yet, unfortunately.
<Fujitsu> (input hotplug, yay)
<persia> I'm a little worried about that too.  My keyboard already doesn't work, and I've about 10 input devices connected: I'm not exactly sure how X will deal.
<persia> Fujitsu: Do you know of any real docs on X input hotplug?  I've mostly found mailing list posts, which seem to focus on the "I plugged a keyboard into my laptop" use case.
<Fujitsu> No idea, sorry.
<persia> Oh well.  I guess I'll find out.
<imbrandon> jesus
<imbrandon> it seems no one on this planet wants xvesa or xfbdev X servers, the only info i can find on them is like 5 years old
<pwnguin> you're speaking in greek
<imbrandon> pwnguin,  aka kdrive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDrive
<Nafallo> *yawn*
<imbrandon> said its part of xorg now but ummm i cant find out how to build just those
 * Nafallo just got home
<Fujitsu> Hey Nafallo.
<Nafallo> morning Fujitsu :-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: how are you?
<Nafallo> hey asac_ :-)
<Fujitsu> Not bad.
<Fujitsu> Yourself?
<Nafallo> asac_: I have a MOTU-related question for you if you have time ;-)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: tired. just got home from about 8h constant dancing and flirting ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<Nafallo> there are quite some goodlooking chicks in this city ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I killed the channel :-P
<Nafallo> wow.
<Nafallo> no wonder it felt warm outside.
<Nafallo> 14C
<Fujitsu> Mm, 14Â°C is nice... >26Â°C here, and it's a fair bit cooler than it was this morning.
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> as long as I can walk in t-shirt I'm okay ;-)
<pwnguin> imbrandon: take a look at xserver-xephyr
<pwnguin> imbrandon: "xephyr though, is based on the kdrive X server"
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> said its a nested x server
<pwnguin> it is
<pwnguin> but
<pwnguin> it sounds like it uses the kdrive code / configuration
<pwnguin> that would be at least a start
<imbrandon> hrm /me looks
<pwnguin> imbrandon: if you're really cool, you'd investigate and add a binary to the xserver source package
<imbrandon> pwnguin, thats what i was doing heh
<Nafallo> oh. it's 4:20:20 for asac :-P
<RainCT> hi
<imbrandon> yea Xephyr will only work nested
<imbrandon> likeXnest
<imbrandon> why do i always have to fsk with large packages like the kernel and X when i'm on a slow computer :(
<persia> imbrandon: On a fast computer, it doesn't matter that they aren't as good: you have cycles to spare :)
<imbrandon> heh
<warp10> Hi all!
<warp10> I am new to packaging and I'm trying to package some simple software to familiarize with packaging. I have a problem: when I make "debuild -S" I get an error messag by debsign, saying that he cannot find a gpg key. Can someone help me?
<warp10> I read the GPG guide on the wiki. I yet had a key (which I used to sign the CoC), and made a new one. But it still gives me this error message :-(
<imbrandon> try `debuild -S -k<your email>`
<pwnguin> imbrandon: i figured it only works nested, but i thought it might give clues on how to build kdrive. any other distros carry it?
<imbrandon> damn small linux and featherlinux , i found the page about building it
<warp10> imbrandon: great! It's working! thanks a lot! :-)
<imbrandon> its an xserver module, not a xorg one like i thought
<imbrandon> pwnguin,  http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Xserver/InstallGuide
<imbrandon> warp10, np
<imbrandon> pwnguin, and this page was last updated in 2004 , but i'm building it, we'll see
<pwnguin> no it wasnt
<pwnguin> Software/Xserver/InstallGuide (last edited 2007-05-09 15:46:32 by )
<warp10> imbrandon: either do I always need to use -k to sign my packages, or there is a way to sign them automatically?
<imbrandon> you just need to make sure you update the debain/changelog correctly
<imbrandon> then it wouldent error and you wouldent need -k
<warp10> imbrandon: uhmm... I think I modified changelog correctly
<imbrandon> no, you had a incorrect name email combo not 100% byte for byte whats in your gpg key or that wouldent have solved it for you
<pwnguin> if you set DEBEMAIL and the like correctly, dch will handle the hard stuff for you
<warp10> imbrandon: I pasted the changelog here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1408/. What's wrong with this?
<imbrandon> is Andrea Colangelo <warp10@libero.it> EXACTLY whats listed in your gpg key ?
<warp10> pwnguin: I added export DEBEMAIL=warp10@libero.it in my .bashrc
<warp10> imbrandon: yes! I made debuild -S -kwarp10@libero.it
<warp10> and that worked!
<imbrandon> e.g when you run ... `gpgp --list-keys`
<imbrandon> err gpg --list-keys
<imbrandon> no the name / email combo must match NOT just the email
<warp10> imbrandon: they match both
<imbrandon> eg
<imbrandon> brandon@hood:~$ gpg --list-keys
<imbrandon> /home/brandon/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
<imbrandon> --------------------------------
<imbrandon> pub   1024D/8AF58F39 2007-10-06
<imbrandon> uid                  Brandon Holtsclaw <imbrandon@kubuntu.org>
<warp10> andrea@starfleet:~$ gpg --list-keys
<warp10> /home/andrea/.gnupg/pubring.gpg
<warp10> -------------------------------
<warp10> pub   1024D/A6725F4B 2007-03-05
<warp10> uid                  Andrea Colangelo <warp10@libero.it>
<imbrandon> very very strange
<warp10> imbrandon: I agree :-)
<imbrandon> there is an option to add your keyid to the bashrc also so you dont ahve to worry about -k also
<imbrandon> but i forget the exact option
<imbrandon> its like DEBKEY="<keyid>" or similar
<warp10> I have this in .my .bashrc:
<warp10> export DEBFULLNAME=Andrea Colangelo
<warp10> export DEBEMAIL=warp10@libero.it
<warp10> export GPGKEY=2B60AFA0
<warp10> I have two gpg keys
<pwnguin> what?
<pwnguin> oh
<imbrandon> A6725F4B
<warp10> I tried with both
<imbrandon> is your key
 * pwnguin is scared of the name of that package
<warp10> imbrandon: no, I had a key, and then I made a new one, trying to resolve the problem
<warp10> None of the two keys works, although
<imbrandon> err you did what ? umm ok
<imbrandon> hum well to be honest it should work iirc, past that maybe someone else can spot something i dont
<warp10> (I made a key months ago to sign the CoC. I tried to use that, but doesn't work. Tried to generate a brand new key, didn't worked as well)
<imbrandon> persia maybe ^^
<warp10> imbrandon: iirc?
<imbrandon> i'm very sleepy atm too so i might be overlooking something
<imbrandon> if i recall correctly
<imbrandon> == iirc
<persia> warp10: Due to the wonders of fsck (only once a month would be nice, really), I've missed the context.  What are you attempting?
<imbrandon> persia, he is signing a package -k<id> works and it SEEMS both match in the changelog and gpgp key
<imbrandon> but without -k it dosent
 * warp10 thanks imbrandon for the short resume :)
 * persia suspects trickery.
<imbrandon> he also has debemail debfullname and gpgkey set in bashrc
<imbrandon> just fyi
<imbrandon> past that i hadent a clue why its not working
<persia> warp10: Can you sign random text locally, and verify the signature?
<warp10> persia: yes! I uploaded the key to launchpad, got the email and decrypted the link to certify the key
<persia> warp10: Great.  That disposes of an entire class of problems.  Now, does echo [$DEBMAIL] match the string reported when you verify your signature?
<warp10> persia: you mean $DEBEMAIL? Yes, it matches
<warp10> and both DEBFULLNAME and GPGKEY too
<persia> warp10: OK.  Are the keyid and email generated by `gpg --list-keys $DEBEMAIL` as you'd expect?
<warp10> persia: yes. Both the old and the new keys are correctly shown
<persia> warp10: Old and new?  is one expired?
<persia> (or revoked)?
<warp10> persia: no. I generated one months ago to sign CoC. When I sow it didn't work, I made a brand new one (that doesn't work as well)
<persia> warp10: Doesn't work for signing the CoC?
<warp10> persia: no, I signed the CoC with the first, old key. But it doesn't work with debuild, so I try to generated a brand new key, and this new key doesn't work with debuild as well.
<persia> warp10: OK.  You'll want to make sure you can recover the old key: without that, launchpad won't recognize you (or you'll need to sign a new CoC).  (or LP is more broken than I think, cryptographically speaking)
<persia> OK.  What do you have for $DEBEMAIL, and what do you have for "Changed By:" in the generated .changes file?
<warp10> andrea@starfleet:~$ echo $DEBEMAIL
<warp10> warp10@libero.it
<warp10> Changed-By: Andrea Colangelo <warp10@libero.it>
<persia> Hrm.  Does it work if you set DEBEMAIL to "Andrea Colangelo <warp10@libero.it>"?
 * pwnguin predicts a problem in invisible characters
<imbrandon> pwnguin, thats what i was thinking
<persia> pwnguin: Quite possibly.
<warp10> persia: doesn't work
<persia> warp10: OK.  We're getting closer.  Hold on a minute while I test something...
<warp10> persia: sure!
<pwnguin> warp10: does it work if you use --no-conf?
<warp10> pwnguin: you mean "debuild -S --no-conf"?
<pwnguin> yea
<RainCT> what does the -v do on debuild?
<warp10> andrea@starfleet:~/Scrivania/ubuntu_tweak/ubuntu-tweak-0.1.4$ debuild -S --no-conf
<warp10> debuild: fatal error at line 850:
<warp10> unknown dpkg-buildpackage/debuild option: --no-conf
<RainCT> (debuild says Â«WARNING generated by debuild: Ubuntu merge policy: when merging Ubuntu packages with Debian, -v must be usedÂ», but I don't see anything about this on its man page)
<imbrandon> -vXXubuntuXX
<pwnguin> wtf
<pwnguin> try --noconf
<pwnguin> oh
 * pwnguin reads manpage more carefully
<pwnguin> use it as the first param
<Adri2000> RainCT: see the REPORT file generated by DaD or MoM
<Adri2000> RainCT: it adds the debian changes to the .changes file
<warp10> pwnguin: as first parameter, it builds, but doesn't sign :(
<imbrandon> right, should be at the very very bottom of the REPORT
<pwnguin> well that rules out you overridding env with a conf file
<RainCT> Adri2000: Adri2000: ah ok, thanks
<pwnguin> well its totally bedtime
<persia> warp10: Please run the shell command in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42439/ in a directory with a .changes file.
<persia> It should output "OK"
<warp10> persia: doesn't output nothing
<warp10> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42441/
<persia> warp10: Excellent.  That means that your Changelog entry and GPG key string don't batch (although it looks like they do).
<persia> Just to verify. try changing the "&& echo OK" at the end to "|| echo Failed to match"
<persia> s/batch/match
<warp10> persia: yep! "Failed to match"
<warp10> persia: so: what's wrong with changelog?
<persia> warp10: OK.  I don't know what went wrong, but line 3 in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42443/ should set it correctly, and you should be able to get OK from "&& echo OK"
<imbrandon> time for some sleep, gnight all
<Nafallo> gnight imbrandon
<imbrandon> gluck persia warp10
<warp10> imbrandon: night!
<persia> sleep well imbrandon
<warp10> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42444/
<warp10> ("la chiave segreta non Ã¨ disponibile" means "the secret key is not available")
<persia> warp10: You missed "dch" between setting DEBEMAIL and calling debuild.
<persia> (Italiano non Ã¨ il problema)
<warp10> persia: argh :-S
<warp10> persia: :D
 * persia has tempted fate: latest spam "BancoPosta premia il suo account ! Importo bonus vinto: 50,00 EUR"
<warp10> persia: I'm sorry: it still doesn't work :(
<persia> warp10: Please paste your first changelog entry, your .changes file, and the output of the gpg --list-keys command you've been using.
<persia> (including the awk bit)
<warp10> persia: the changelog: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42445/
<persia> warp10: One paste with everything is easier for me :)
<warp10> persia: :D ok
<warp10> persia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42447/
<persia> warp10: It's trying to use your first key, not your second key.  Try with that passphrase.
<warp10> persia: modifying $GPGKEY?
<persia> warp10: unset GPGKEY
<warp10> persia: uh?
<persia> At the prompt, type `unset GPGKEY`, and press enter.
<warp10> persia: wow! It's working now! :D
<persia> warp10: Great!
<warp10> it signed the dsc and changes :D
<warp10> persia: thank you so much! :-)
<persia> warp10: You're welcome.
<warp10> Time to package a little bit. persia: Thanks again, and "ciao" everybody! :-)
<wattazoum> hello
<wattazoum> I got a problem understanding how to do a correct Makefile.am for a python app . My package does install but does not uninstall correctly
<persia> wattazoum: You probably want a setup.py
<wattazoum> I look at the documentation of this one , but found it was quite difficult to understand :-p
<wattazoum> I'll look into ubuntu wiki to find a lighter version of this documentation
<persia> Does anyone happen to know offhand with what lpbugs.py has been replaced?
<rexbron> hey are the any python guru's around?
<Kaleo> rexbron: what's your question?
<rexbron> It is regarding the policy on python extentions depending on libboost-python
<rexbron> Currently I have hardcoded the python dependancy into the package.
<Kaleo> rexbron: I am not the right person then, sorry
<TheMuso> Yay, back online with my box at home, and the lag is actually not too bad.
<TheMuso> Better than it was in parris if I may say so.
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, wouldnt nearly anything beat the paris connection?
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: It would also beat the connection here, it were down to pure bandwidth, yes.
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: As in, we are on a T1.
<TheMuso> And when people get going on it, it is sloooooooooooow.
<elkbuntu> heh
<elkbuntu> at least without the mass dropouts :Ã
<TheMuso> yeah I guess.
<StevenK> You sound convinced.
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, well, that's how i learned what uds was.. all the paris dropouts :Ã
<cbx33> hey all long time no see - nyone had success with caldav?
<Fujitsu> Is there actually a CalDAV server around anywhere?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> sunbird used to be able to support ics files over webdav
<cbx33> but the webdav option has been replaced by the caldav option
<cbx33> and now it seems to no longer work
<cbx33> i can get it to create .ics files for events - but it won't read them back
<cbx33> :(
<StevenHarperUK> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my package on REVU (easycrypt) I currently have no Advocations
<ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: I'm not reviewing, but it makes it easier for those who are to put the link to where your package is up.  Also, a lot of Ubuntu people are travelling to or at the Ubuntu Developer Sprint, so I don't know how much action you'll get this week.
<crimsun_> StevenHarperUK: if you stick around, I might can do in a few minutes/hours
<ScottK2> Hello norsetto
<norsetto> ScottK: hiya scottie
<StevenHarperUK> crimsum_: thanks
<StevenHarperUK> Link to it is : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402
<norsetto> ScottK2: still against having a mentoree? I have somebody who is also a pythonist and needs help
<ScottK2> norsetto: I'll help people here, but not a dedicated one, no.
<ScottK2> norsetto: I feel pretty strongly that dedicated off-channel help inhibits community development.
<norsetto> ScottK2: why off-channel? I see quite a numbee of mentoree here
 * ScottK2 was thinking of the dedicated mailing list and I don't know what else.
<ScottK2> norsetto: I personally think the entire program is not a generally benificial idea.
<norsetto> scottk2: I just wish you were not so negative
 * ScottK2 notes he isn't trying to start an argument right now.
 * zul likes less filling
<ScottK2> norsetto_: Are you back yet (is your network stable)?
<norsetto_> ScottK2: I'm seriously considering going back to feisty actually
<ScottK2> Ouch.
<ScottK2> norsetto_: I was the same (on this laptop) because of cooling/power management issues, but I found work-arounds.
<ScottK2> On my desktop Gutsy looks compelling.  I've got Dapper there now.
<jeromeg> ScottK2: do you have 2 secs to validate a backport request (tested and everything ok) ?
<ScottK2> jeromeg: Maybe.  What bug?
<jeromeg> 2 sec
<norsetto_> scottK2: the only workaround I found for xserver-xorg-video-ati was to install the feisty version ......
<sistpoty|UDS> hi folks
<ScottK2> norsetto_: Ouch.
<ScottK2> sistpoty|UDS: Hello.  I saw you walk by a few minutes ago (name tags are useful).
<jeromeg> ScottK2: bug 153332
<norsetto_> scottK2: but unfortunately the legacy rt2x00 drivers are a no go on 2.6.22, and the newer version is even worse
<ScottK2> Urgh.
<ScottK2> jeromeg: Looking
<sistpoty|UDS> ScottK: hi... still a little bit tired, but coffee is starting to work
<sistpoty|UDS> ScottK: where are you now?
 * Hobbsee waves to sistpoty|UDS
<sistpoty|UDS> hi Hobbsee
<jeromeg> ScottK2: great, thanks.
<ScottK2> sistpoty|UDS: Sitting near the registration desk, next to a pile of dirty dishes.
<sladen> norsetto_: vesa drivers don't work?
<norsetto_> sistpoty|UDS: the old frail man sitting next to the registration desk its scottk, don't be impressed by his dismissed look ;-)
<norsetto_> sladen: what? and loose all the benefit of the FOSS ati drivers!?
 * norsetto_ read what he wrote and installs the vesa drivers
<sladen> Hobbsee: is that a virtual wave, or did you change your mind and turn up in the end?
<Hobbsee> sladen: virtual wave, unfortunately
<Hobbsee> based on how many of my assignments due tomorrow will actually get handed in though, it may as well be a physical one.  *sigh*
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ! :)
<Hobbsee> hiya joejaxx!
<joejaxx> :D
<sladen> Hobbsee: w00t!
<sladen> Hobbsee: never, mind, misread it
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<ScottK2> jeromeg: Done.
<jeromeg> ScottK2: great !
<jcadam> ls
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<siretart> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html <- list of packages that need sync, look at the bottom for statistics
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: are you actually here?
<TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: Indeed.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: cool.  i'll swap you a gnome-speech merge for an ack on one of your main bugs (freedosfs, iirc).
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: mergebay at it's finest!  :)
<TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: Done.
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: got other main ones to ack?  i ahvent really looked.
<TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: Not at this point. The other merge I need to do is espeak, but I hope to work with debian to eventually just do a sync.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: cool
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bugs
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/motu.png
<siretart> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_the_Universe
<AstralJava> Anyone from the British Isles, got a few minutes spare time, and willing to help out on a non Ubuntu-related task of mine? PMs probably preferred to keep the channel sane. :)
<TheMuso_Boston> Hey pochu.
 * pochu waves
<pochu> hey TheMuso_Boston
<jdong> TheMuso_Boston: hey, are you in Boston? ;-)
<TheMuso_Boston> jdong: Yes.
<jdong> cool
<TheMuso_Boston> My box is logged on at home, but I'd rather not deal with the lag, and just connect from here.
<jdong> irssi-proxy time? :)
<TheMuso_Boston> No. Using irssi with same config, but different nick.
<StevenK> jdong: I so want to make my irssi a proxy
<jdong> StevenK: have you !rtfm? :D
<jdong> http://irssi.org/documentation/proxy
<jdong> that thing....
<gpocentek> geser, soren, congrats :)
<geser> thanks
 * TheMuso_Boston echoes his congratulations to soren and geser.
<asac> Nafallo: pong
<stani> jdong: which urgency should I set in the changelog for the SRU of spe?
<crimsun> not relevant
<crimsun> (i.e., high has essentially the same semantics as low for soyuz)
<stani> ok, so I keep it to low
<stani> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> np
<TheMuso_Boston> just a typo
<Nafallo> hi asac.
<Nafallo> asac: I installed firefox-sage, and it doesn't show up. 7.10 system. is it worth me working on it for gutsy-proposed or something?
<asac> Nafallo: yes ... i assume its an extension package, right?
<Nafallo> asac: yea. feed reader. doesn't pop up when installed :-)
<asac> Nafallo: if you have issues please join #ubuntu-mozillateam where there are others that can help as well
<TheMuso_Boston> RainCT: Did anybody merge your ubuntu-dev-tools changes?
<TheMuso_Boston> RainCT: if not, whats the URL again? I'll do them now.
<RainCT> TheMuso_Boston: Hi
<RainCT> ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev  into  ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk . Thanks :)
<TheMuso_Boston> Ok will do.
<TheMuso_Boston> Hey superm1. You at UDs yet?
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, heya.  just got in
<superm1> and hooked up and such
<jdong> you guys doing anything exciting?
<jdong> I'm eating lunch in W20 right now... wondering if I should pay a visit some time :)
<superm1> well i was just going to go hunt for lunch myself right now
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Cool.
<superm1> i havent eaten since 6pm last night :(
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, you ate yet?
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Not yet, and joejaxx, crimsun and I are probably going to grab something once Cory arrives.
<TheMuso_Boston> RainCT: Committed.
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, oh neat i didn't know they are all here too :)
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, any eta on that?
<TheMuso_Boston> Indeed they are.
<RainCT> TheMuso_Boston: thanks
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Well, Cory should be arriving here probably in the next 5/10 minutes, give or take.
<superm1> sweet okay, well i'll join up with you guys then once coy gets in
<TheMuso_Boston> superm1: We're on level 2, in Langen I think its called. Its down the hall way if you turn right after exiting the elevators.
<TheMuso_Boston> If you are trying to find us, at least joejaxx and myself are here, and crimsun was, but he's gone for a bit...
<superm1> TheMuso_Boston, okay cool.  i'll get the rest of my stuff put away and head down there.
<superm1> what are you planning on doing with laptops?
<superm1> bringing them back to rooms before headed out?
<TheMuso_Boston> We have ours here.
<TheMuso_Boston> Haven't talked about that yet.
<jdong> superm1 / TheMuso_Boston: Pfft, blend into MIT. Take your laptops *everywhere*
<superm1> haha
<TheMuso_Boston> lol
<jdong> I hope I don't need to give y'all nerd lessons ;-)
<TheMuso_Boston> Of course you don't.
<jdong> For example, if you happen to see a nerdy asian kid with glasses typing away at a black macbook..... it's probably me
<jdong> or 1/2 the student body.
<superm1> lol
<TheMuso_Boston> ool.
<TheMuso_Boston> jdong: And I thought you would have had a white macbook.
<jdong> TheMuso_Boston: nah, I went black and will never go back ;-)
 * MLP falls over laughing
<jdong> ooh, UDS hostmasks already
<warp10> A short question: there is a bug that Ifixed and attached the debdiff to the bug report. Now, I need to subscribe u-u-s to that bug and... what else?
<superm1> ScottK2, oh didn't know you were making it out too :)
<jdong> wait patiently?
<ScottK2> superm1: Yes.  Are you here?
<superm1> ScottK2, yup
<ScottK2> superm1: Where are you?
<warp10> jdong: so simple? Ok, thanks :)
<superm1> i'm up on the 5th floor right now, but i'm going to head down and meet up with TheMuso_Boston and joejaxx and crimsun in a little bit
<superm1> we're gonna get something to eat if you want to join?
<ScottK2> superm1: I see.  I'm in the KDE4 talk just now.
<superm1> oh i didn't realize talks already started and all
<ScottK2> This is fosscamp.  It's all pretty freeform.
<superm1> ah i see
<ScottK2> On the 3rd floor there's a list of the various stuff on today posted by the elevator
<ScottK2> jdong: Are you coming over?
<jdong> ScottK2: should I? :)
<ScottK2> jdong: For social reasons if none other.
<jdong> ScottK2: sounds like fun.... busy for about 2hrs, then I'm game....
<joejaxx> superm1: we moved to hunsaker b
<StevenK> joejaxx: OpenLDAP?
<joejaxx> StevenK: there is no one in here currently
<superm1> okay i'm headed down stairs right now
<joejaxx> jdong: you are here too?
<ScottK2> jdong: I should be around.  I'm going to my brother's for dinner one evening, but probably not today.
<jdong> joejaxx: I go to school here :)
<joejaxx> jdong: ahhh
<joejaxx>  :)
<StevenK> joejaxx: Which isn't OpenLDAP, since it's full. :-)
<joejaxx> StevenK: :P
<ScottK2> Anyone looking for some Python practice might want to look into Bug #158095
<imbrandon> is there any info on the SIP and such yet ?
<StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOTU's to review my package on REVU : I currently have 0 advocations : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=444
<g2g591> could someone refresh the revu keyring please?
<StevenHarperUK> Where would I report a Packaging for d4x : the d4x.desktop file has a bad Categories entry
<StevenHarperUK> Sorry I meant report a Packaging bug
<StevenHarperUK> Is it just Bots in here and me?
<geser> open a bug against d4x: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/d4x/+filebug
<StevenHarperUK> geser: ta
<geser> StevenHarperUK: it's a weekend and some people are also at UDS in Boston
<StevenHarperUK> geser: Yeh I have noticed its quiet
<g2g591> no
<warp10> I have a control file where in the Depends field packages name are divided by "|" instead of ",". What does it mean?
<jdong> warp10: those are alternate dependencies
<jdong> warp10: if foo Depends: a | b | c | d, nothing will be installed if a, b, c, OR d is present
<jdong> warp10: if none are present, apt will attempt to install them in the order listed
<jdong> (s/them/the first successful package/)
<gnomefreak> if any of them are installed than it wont grab any ;)
 * gnomefreak needs an easy merge to do :(
<warp10> jdong, gnomefreak : ok, clear. Thank you :)
<ajmitch> hi
<ScottK2> Hello ajmitch.
<ajmitch> how's UDS going?
<ScottK2> Very interesting for me since I've never been to one before.
 * ScottK2 is meeting lots of people face to face for the first time.
<ajmitch> always a good thing
<ScottK2> Agreed.
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<wattazoum> hello
<ajmitch> manage to get there in the end?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nope :(
<ScottK2> blueyed: Isn't pysol-soun-server a different source package?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, stuck at home
<ajmitch> why?
<imbrandon> $$
<ajmitch> pfft
<ajmitch> you're american, you must be rich :)
<wattazoum> I am trying to package a python software using setup.py , but I can't figure out how the uninstall should work . Help ! :-)
<imbrandon> haha
<blueyed> ScottK2: yes, but the error is in pysol itself though. You need to have the package, so that the option dialog (with the error) is enabled.
<mruiz> hi all. I want to help with Unmet Dependencies bugs...
<ScottK2> blueyed: OK.
<geser> mruiz: it's to early to care about unmet deps in hardy
<ScottK2> But they're SRU worthy for Gutsy ...
<geser> are there any easy ones left for gutsy?
<mruiz> geser, OK. I was reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO and this kind of bug appears there
<ScottK2> Dunno.
<g2g591> anyone around that can refresh the Revu keyring?
<minghua> ScottK: I wonder if you can have a look at launchpad bug 138995, and see what I said there is relevant (or correct at all).
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 138995 in python-numpy "python-numpy incorrectly depends directly on python2.4 and python2.5" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/138995
<g2g591> sigh I guess my package of tightvnc1.3.9 will have to wait 7 more hours to get onto revu
<ScottK2> minghua: I saw that.
<minghua> ScottK2:  Including my comment 2 minutes ago?
<ScottK2> minghua: Dunno, I'll look again.
<minghua> ScottK2: Thanks. :-)
<ScottK2> minghua: No.  I hadn't seen that.
<TheMuso_Boston> ScottK2: How was lunch with family?
<ScottK2> minghua: Given the new python-scipy in Hardy, I suspect there's going to be a lot of testing needed.
<ScottK2> TheMuso_Boston: It was good.  I hadn't seen my brother that lives here since last Christmas
<TheMuso_Boston> That sounds great.
<minghua> ScottK2: I am pretty green on python, scipy/numpy, and CDBS.  But if you have some specific testing task, I'd like to help.
<ajmitch> I can't believe that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-boston-2007/+roadmap is linked on the digg frontpage already
<imbrandon> is there any VOIP info yet ?
<calc> can we talk about daniel in here while he talks about MOTU? :)
<ajmitch> sure, why not?
<calc> for the majority who don't know dholbach is talking about motu and debian in a meeting at foocamp right now
<geser> minghua: have you looked up which files causes the versioned depends?
<minghua> ScottK2: Is it possibly due to the f2py section in debian/rules (the Ubuntu patch part) doesn't start the line with a tab?
<ajmitch> ok
<ScottK2> minghua: I'm in the meeting calc is mentioning, so haven't looked yet, but if you're question is did I screw up, it wouldn't suprise me.
<minghua> geser: I haven't built the Ubuntu package yet, but if my suspicion is right, I assume many of them.
<geser> minghua: and why they aren't covered by the rewriting in rules? it should echo mangled file names but the build log doesn't contain any
<calc> ScottK2: have i met you yet?
<calc> ScottK2: i can't place the nick and the face
<minghua> geser: As I've said in the bug, the rewriting in debian/rules doesn't seem to be run in Ubuntu build.
<ScottK2> calc: Waving.
<minghua> ScottK2: Sorry, didn't realize you are in a meeting.  No pressure, just look at it when you have time. :-)
<calc> ScottK2: ah ok i see you :)
<ryanakca> How can I make sbuild build a package twice, instead of once? (I'm trying to sort out my debian packages, there's a "can't build twice" bug filed against it...)
<Lutin> DktrKranz: although it's of course not mandatory, please check the merge status on DaD before merging packages (eg, tora). no big deal, but still
<DktrKranz> Lutin, sorry. Perhaps I overlooked that,I had a merge bug assigned to me due to a UVFe not processed in time for Gutsy, and I didn't check on DaD. I apologize
<Lutin> DktrKranz: no prob. just would have avoided me preparing a merge at the very same time :)
<DktrKranz> :)
<DktrKranz> My fault I didn't update DaD too
<ScottK2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian for those in the meeting
<Lutin> DktrKranz: hehe :)
<DktrKranz> Lutin, sorry again for wasting your time
<Lutin> DktrKranz: no prob :)
<warp10> norsetto: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nicotine/+bug/137279 #My first debdiff :-)
<Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 137279 in nicotine ""Abort & Delete" button mislabeled" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<RainCT> TheMuso: about Â«balsaÂ» (we spoke yesterday about it), I builded it as-is from Debian and also commenting the *_DISABLE_DEPRECATED lines out like in the last Ubuntu revision, and the only difference I see is that this last option has a longer build log (it prints many warnings) and has a bigger diff to Debian
<norsetto> warp10: yes, why didn't you set the status to confirmed?
<warp10> norsetto: I was unsure if status should be confirmed of fix committed. Someone said me "fix committed" would be more appropriated
<norsetto> warp10: no, it is confirmed if you need sponsorship
<warp10> norsetto: ok. just switched :)
<norsetto> warp10: it is incomplete if you need ubuntu-dev to ack a sync or freeze-exception
<norsetto> warp10: is that the right solution? In the upstream tracker, somebody is talking about something different?
<RainCT> good night
<norsetto> RainCT: night
<warp10> norsetto: I saw, but he is wrong. An upstream developer said me "abort & remove" to be more appropriated
<norsetto> warp10: was it an IRC talk?
<warp10> norsetto: yep!
<norsetto> warp10: hmmmm, I hope its not like the one that told you to use fix committed
<warp10> norsetto: :D I hope too!
<norsetto> warp10: ok, few comments
<norsetto> warp10: distribution should be hardy
<norsetto> warp10: the tag to automagically close the bug should be LP: #137279 not bug: #137279
<norsetto> warp10: you also correctly change the maintainer, but you need to add this change to the changelog
<norsetto> warp10: for the future, you may want to use change-maintainer (a script in ubuntu-dev-tools) to do this
<norsetto> warp10: or update-maintainer, I never remember the name
<joejaxx> lol i need a package to take care of :P
 * StevenK waits for base-files to build
<joejaxx> anyone have any suggestions? :)
<joejaxx> StevenK: :P
<jdong> joejaxx: ooh....
<jdong> joejaxx: figure out how to get swt-gtk 3.3 into Hardy :)
<joejaxx> jdong: where are you at?
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<ryanakca> How can I make sbuild build a package twice, instead of once? (I'm trying to sort out my debian packages, there's a "can't build twice" bug filed against it...)
<jdong> joejaxx: dorm, folding laundry
<jdong> joejaxx: (but yeah, seriously, if you can hunt down doko and see if he has plans for SWT 3.3...)
<joejaxx> jdong: oh when are you coming to uds? oh nevermind that is right technically it did not start yet
<ScottK2> jdong: Thought you were coming over?
<norsetto> warp10: you should also build, install and test. You should report this in the bug report.
<jdong> ScottK2: soon?
<ScottK2> ?
<lifeless> slangasek: I've pung azeem btw
<jdong> ScottK2: still obsessing over a test I have midweek next week...
<warp10> norsetto: I didn't know about change|update-mantainer. Next time I'll try. Anyway: what about '* Changed Mantainer to Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<jdong> ScottK2: typical MIT life..
<norsetto> warp10: whatever, as long as you add it to the changelog
<warp10> should I wrap after 80 or 73 chars or... whatever?
<norsetto> warp10: just a word of caution, be carefully when manually editing changelog, its quite sensitive to spaces and tabs; in the doubt check it with dpkg-parsechangelog
<pochu> warp10: 80
<norsetto> warp10: <<80 chars
<siretart> list of AMs in debian: https://nm.debian.org/whoisam.php
<warp10> norsetto: yeah, I know... I spent half an hour due such an issue a couple days ago -_-
<norsetto> warp10: I think everybody did :-)
<warp10> :)
<norsetto> warp10: once you fix these I think it should be good to go; I'm only unsure wheter its not better to wait for the fix coming from upstream though
<norsetto> warp10: did the guy tell you anything about his plans for this?
<warp10> norsetto: maybe I could ask via e-mail to upstream
<warp10> norsetto: no, nothing. Just gave me an ok to go
<norsetto> warp10: pls. because I don't want to end up with yet another diff with debian that we will carry on forever
<norsetto> warp10: anyhow, you'd better report this, together with the patch, to debian
<joejaxx> so anyone have any ideas?
<warp10> norsetto: Ok, I'll write them immediately. In the meantime: do I attach the debdiff or wait for a response?
<joejaxx> for a package i could adopt :)
<norsetto> warp10: attach the debdiff, and after you reported it to debian, link the debian bug report to the LP bug
<warp10> norsetto: roger!
<norsetto> warp10: was a pretty good work for a first bug ;-)
<warp10> norsetto: Thank you! I am happy for this! :-)
<norsetto> wrap10: ok, so for the next bug fix the rt2x00 kernel module which keeps giving me troubles :-D
<norsetto> warp10: ok, so for the next bug fix the rt2x00 kernel module which keeps giving me troubles :-D
<warp10> norsetto: for sure! could you wait, say... a couple of dozen years? ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<norsetto> warp10: yeah, thats about how long I have to wait anyhow .....
<warp10> norsetto: what's rtx200 for?
<norsetto> warp10: wireless
<warp10> norsetto: ouch...!
<norsetto> warp10: don't forget this "warp10: you should also build, install and test. You should report this in the bug report."
<warp10> norsetto: regarding to this... a python app that doesn't need to be compiled. In a case like this I still need to pacakge or is enough to load the software and check if it works?
<norsetto> warp10: if you don't build it, how do you have the certainty that this will build and install correctly?
<warp10> norsetto: I expected such an answer. Sorry for the stupid question :)
<norsetto> warp10: it wasn't stupid at all, of course you will not need to do this when testing your patch, but you will when testing your debdiff
<warp10> norsetto: Ok, I understand. Another piece of knowledge :-)
<norsetto> warp10: btw, there is a good pythonist on this channel that is glad to help new contributors
<warp10> norsetto: oh, really? :)
<norsetto> warp10: right now he is hiding in a meeting, but next time you come I will introduce you to him; his name is Scott Kitterman (scottk is his nickname on IRC)
<warp10> norsetto: I'll be happy to meet him!
<lamego__> ryanakca, you can schroot to your build environment and build twice
<ryanakca> Lamego: yeah :) I received a sbuild patch :)
<ryanakca> Why do I have to specify -kE95EDDC9 to debsign? my secret key is in ~/.gnupg/ ... It used to be recognized by debuild, but it hasn't ever since I've started using gpg-agent...
<ScottK2> warp10: Hello.
<ScottK2> ryanakca: What release are you running?
<warp10> ScottK2: Hi!
<ScottK2> warp10: I don't have time to be a dedicated mentor, but I'm glad to answer Python packaging questions.
<ScottK2> ryanakca: With the debsign in Gutsy, gpg-agent should work.
<warp10> ScottK2: Great! Expect to be pinged frequently :)
<ScottK2> ryanakca: Correction, I meant debuild.
<ScottK2> warp10: No problem.
<ScottK2> Gotta run.
<ryanakca> ScottK2: gutsy
<ryanakca> ScottK2: herm.
<ryanakca> ScottK2:  gpg: skipped "Ryan Kavanagh <ryanakca(ircspamprotection)kubuntu.org>": secret key not available
<ryanakca> Ah, nevermind... he's gone :)
 * ajmitch should probably update this box to gutsy
<ryanakca> Hmm... if I have 'include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk', and there's a clean rule in Makefile, shouldn't CDBS automagically run make clean?
<warp10> norsetto: I have a question regarding https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pppoeconf/+bug/47158
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 47158 in pppoeconf "pppoe connection loses DNS addresses after the first DHCP lease renewal in dapper RC" [Medium,Confirmed]
<warp10> norsetto: That package needs resolvconf as a dep to fix the bug.
<warp10> norsetto: The original depends field is "1" in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42512/ Do I need to change it as in "2"?
 * norsetto looks
<norsetto> warp10: was the bug in the MOTU/TODO list?
<warp10> norsetto: yes, as a bitesize
<norsetto> warp10: thats definetively wrong, wrong to have it in the MOTU/TODO and worng to tag it as bitesize
<warp10> norsetto: for pppoeconf being in main?
<norsetto> warp10: yes
<norsetto> warp10: and adding resolvconf ass a dep might have consequences we are not aware of (at least, I'm not)
<warp10> norsetto: seemed strange to me too... but it was listed there, so I went ahead
<norsetto> warp10: thanks for reporting it, I need to edit it out
<warp10> norsetto: so should I stop working on it... and maybe modify the todo?
<norsetto> warp10: I'll do it, I also need to change the bug report
<warp10> norsetto: ok :)
<joejaxx> norsetto: i was wondering if it was ok to do the conky merge if you were not working on it
<norsetto> joejaxx: not for this issue, there is nothing that is worth adding and on top of that its removing things that we rather keep; its not a simple merge
<joejaxx> norsetto: ok
 * joejaxx needs to find a package to adopt :)
<norsetto> joejaxx: why not looking at the MOTU/TODO list?
<joejaxx> norsetto: i did already :) most have debdiffs
<persia> joejaxx: mhwaveedit needs a merge, and it's fairly simple.  The Debian bug for the issue is also missing, so there's that task as well.  ecasound has some issue with the Ubuntu compile that needs investigation.  Do either of those appeal?
<warp10> norsetto: are merges and sync comfortable for a newbie like me?
<norsetto> warp10: definetively
<joejaxx> persia: it does not necessarily have to be multimedia related :)
<persia> joejaxx: No, but I've two on my list that are :)
 * persia believes that merges are not always easy for new people, and that investigating packaging bugs or unmetdeps might be more educative.
<warp10> norsetto: great. Tomorrow I'll read something about that. ToDo list is not so useful (as joejaxx say)
<joejaxx> persia: link to bugs?
<norsetto> joejaxx: warp10: feel free to scan through this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging
<norsetto> warp10: you can do yappy if you want, its a trivial one but its good for you to learn the tools
<warp10> norsetto: yappy?
<norsetto> warp10: yes?
<warp10> norsetto: what does it mean?
<joejaxx> norsetto: thanks for that linke
<joejaxx> link*
<norsetto> warp10: yet another parser something, don't remember; its a package ....
<warp10> norsetto: oh, you mean python-yappy?
<persia> joejaxx: mhwaveedit is a merge: no bug yet.  For ecasound, I only have https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002580.html as a hint.
<norsetto> warp10: python-yappy is the binary package, yappy is the source package
<persia> joejaxx: Actually, http://merges.ubuntu.com/m/mhwaveedit/REPORT might be useful, but perhaps not.  Depends on how you want to do the merge.
<warp10> norsetto: yep! It's just my brain asking for a bed and going slower and slower :P
<norsetto> warp10: take it easy, relax, its nothing serious (like what you say to your patient just before telling him he will die in 3 months)
<warp10> norsetto: rotfl
<norsetto> do we have some kind of popcon for ubuntu?
<gnomefreak> norsetto: yes popcon
<norsetto> gnomefreak: ah, popcon! thanks
<joejaxx> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<joejaxx> :)
<gnomefreak> :)
<gnomefreak> not sure how well it works or how it works even
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> good day
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<norsetto> gnomefreak: joejaxx: seems pretty useless, its only for dapper or my brain is frying as usual ....
<gnomefreak> its installed by default after dapper iirc
<norsetto> hi bddebian, thanks for your support :-)
<gnomefreak> and useless for the most part IMHO
<bddebian> norsetto: NP :-)
<zul> evening
<imbrandon> heya zul
<zul> hey imbrandon how goes the battle?
<imbrandon> good good, doing lots of other things today , like trying to get X working on my new iMacs i aquired and some merges
<imbrandon> AND trying out qyoto but not much luck there
<zul> imbrandon,: geek
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> you only just realise this?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: ! :) how are you ?
<imbrandon> makes me mad, a dapper cd ( only ppc ubuntu i have ) wont load x ootb from the livecd , debian lenny wont either, and hell its a rev,1 iMac the old boni blue ones, SHOULD be well supported
<ajmitch> joejaxx: adequate
<joejaxx> ajmitch: that is great :)
<imbrandon> bondi:~# lspci
<imbrandon> 00:00.0 Host bridge: Motorola MPC106 [Grackle] (rev 40)
<imbrandon> 00:10.0 Class ff00: Apple Computer Inc. Paddington Mac I/O
<imbrandon> 00:12.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 3D Rage Pro 215GP (rev 5c)
<imbrandon> 00:14.0 USB Controller: OPTi Inc. 82C861 (rev 10)
<imbrandon> :(
<imbrandon> tried the vesa and ati driver, neither seem to work at all
<imbrandon> just a black screen ;(
<superm1> joejaxx, did you guys end up deciding upon a time to hunt for dinner already (or did i already miss out on food)?
<joejaxx> superm1: we have not gone for dinner yet
<persia> imbrandon: The old radeon driver probably supports that card, no?
<superm1> joejaxx, kk
<imbrandon> hrm actualy i might have found it, looks like the sync freq are wrong
<imbrandon> bondi:~# xresprobe ati
<imbrandon> id: iMac
<imbrandon> res: 800x600 640x480
<imbrandon> freq: 60-60 75-117
<imbrandon> thats not the freq thats in the xorg.conf
 * imbrandon looks
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes, well
<proppy> hi
<proppy> norsetto: hi
<norsetto> proppy: hey
 * norsetto wonders how long before proppy will shoot some url at him
<joejaxx> norsetto: lol
<joejaxx> norsetto: maybe he was just saying hi
<joejaxx> :)
<proppy> norsetto: I've shooted a few yesterday :)
<proppy> norsetto: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=449
<joejaxx> ok maybe not lol
<norsetto> joejaxx: wait, thats just the start ....
<proppy> norsetto: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=mumble
<joejaxx> lol
<warp10> Time to go. Hi all! :)
<norsetto> proppy: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=449
<proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/a5144ab12a3c too
<norsetto> warp10: hasta la vista
<proppy> norsetto: but the diff is not really readable
<proppy> norsetto: oups I didn't get notified by your comments
<proppy> norsetto: it's a bit sad
<proppy> norsetto: is it possible to get an RSS feed of mail from REVU ?
<norsetto> proppy: are you subscribed to the revu-review ml?
<norsetto> proppy:  http://lists.tauware.de/listinfo/motu-reviewers
<proppy> guess not
 * norsetto 2 - proppy 3
<proppy> norsetto: I have to thanks you for all the awesome comments
<proppy> norsetto: I've a nice todo next list now :)
<norsetto> proppy: awesome? they are preliminary, the real stuff still has to come ;-)
<imbrandon> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1447/ any ideas
<proppy> norsetto: You as a mentor is kinda like my own personnal human lintian
<norsetto> proppy: if you start to call me linda I punch you on the nose
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> imbrandon: Well, your fonts aren't going to render (freetype issue), still looking...
<proppy> norsetto: I get something uploaded in debian yesterday
<proppy> norsetto: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=proppy@aminche.com
<AlessandroD> I'd like to get involved with development... I've read most wikis about it, but who, of https://launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception/+members I should e-mail?
<proppy> norsetto: 3 proppy: 4
<norsetto> AlessandroD: not me
<AlessandroD> norsetto: lol
<norsetto> proppy: what is that?
<proppy> norsetto: A unittest framework for c++
<proppy> norsetto: I get it uploaded last year through a DD, and I forget to update it to the new upstream
<proppy> norsetto: now it's done
<norsetto> proppy: No excuse for unittest++
<persia> imbrandon: It looks like it cannot allocate video ram, did you provide a hint regarding the amount of ram on the card in xorg.conf?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> it should be 16 iirc, but i have no idea how to tell
<imbrandon> 16MB
<proppy> norsetto: no excuse ?
<persia> imbrandon: I'd also try turning off framebuffer support and dri - it'll be slower, but it might help.
<imbrandon> persia,
<imbrandon> Section "Device"
<imbrandon>         Identifier      "Generic Video Card"
<imbrandon>         Driver          "ati"
<imbrandon>         BusID           "PCI:0:18:0"
<imbrandon> EndSection
<norsetto> proppy: dunno what that is, I found it funny to have an excuse entry in the PTS
<norsetto> zut, he is gone before I could talk to him
<proppy> norsetto: ahah I just found it ;)
<proppy> norsetto: I never noticed there was one
<persia> imbrandon: "ati" is just a pointer to a generic interface that tries to autoselect the right driver (there is no "ati" driver).  Based on your output, the atimisc driver seems to get the closest, but it tries to allocate too much ram.
<imbrandon> ahh here is my whole xorg.conf , pretty simple
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1448/
<imbrandon> is there a way to probe the card for how much ram it has ? its built into the imac mb
<persia> imbrandon: I'd suggest changing from "ati" to "atimisc" (or another specific driver).  I don't know how to probe the RAM.  I also don't know how to set the 16MB option (I generally use dpkg-reconfigure).  My apologies.
<imbrandon> np, i'll try that
<imbrandon> thanks for the hints
<imbrandon> yea dpkg-reconfigure is what made that file
<RAOF> Doesn't dpgk-reconfigure ask for the videoram at some point?
<RAOF> At least, that's what I seem to remember
<imbrandon> yea it does, but i am not 100% sure on the ammount is on the card
<proppy> norsetto: generating the orig.gz svn export + tar --exclude debian ?
<persia> imbrandon: Try 8, 16, and 32.  One should work.  You'll get the allocation failure if you choose too much.
<RAOF> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.
<norsetto> proppy: no, you have to use the upstream tarball, not generate one from the svn
 * persia generally points to the new debhelper --ignore feature to support annoying upstream debian directories
<proppy> norsetto: how there is an upstream tarball
<proppy> norsetto: cool
<norsetto> proppy: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=147372&package_id=162594
<proppy> norsetto: the only thing I must use on svn is the debian directory right ?
<norsetto> proppy: there is also a comment about it in the copyright section
<norsetto> proppy: just to start with, that forget it
<norsetto> proppy: s/that/than/
 * norsetto never remembers the difference between then and than
<norsetto> proppy: gotta go now, see you tomorrow?
<proppy> norsetto: yep no pb
<proppy> norsetto: I will finish unittest++ -2 publication
<proppy> norsetto: and I will address your comments then
<norsetto> proppy: okkidokki, good night then (ah!)
<proppy> norsetto: now sure how far I can go on my own
<norsetto> proppy: why on your own?
<proppy> norsetto: but I will surely shoot you a couple of url tomoroow
<proppy> norsetto: I mean tonight :)
<norsetto> proppy: ah ....
<proppy> norsetto: as my motivation go away with you :)
<proppy> norsetto: but you send me some url
<norsetto> proppy: now you make me feel bad
<proppy> norsetto: then it's kinda like asynchronous motivation
<proppy> norsetto: I like it
<proppy> norsetto: you've motivated me enought for tonight :)
<proppy> norsetto: but I will starve for more tomorrow
<norsetto> proppy: https://proppy.is.a.bastard/but-I-nned-my-beauty-sleep
<bddebian> heh
<norsetto> bddebian: don't click on it!
<norsetto> proppy: ok, see you tomorrow
<proppy> norsetto: buena note
<norsetto> g'night all ... good night the bostonians too
<blueyed> bddebian: do you know the cuetools package? (you did the last upload)
<norsetto> proppy (buona notte ;-))
<blueyed> bddebian: it appears the patch in debian/patches does not get used at all?!
<bddebian> blueyed: Aye, it was either never applied or reverted.  Not sure why
<blueyed> bddebian: ok, then I'll just leave it like that. I need to patch the extras/cuetag.sh file now. But if I'll add dpatch in debian/rules it would apply the patch again.
<blueyed> Or should I patch it in debian/rules install, e.g. with "sed"?
 * persia suggests not using sed to patch files: it makes life exceeedingly painful for later security fixes.
<bddebian> Aye
<blueyed> Hmm.. so I would activate dpatch in debian/rules (have to lookup how to do it) and remove the patch currently listed in 00list from there?
<blueyed> From the debian changelog it does not look like the patch got dropped: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/c/cuetools/cuetools_1.3.1-1/changelog
<blueyed> (maybe I'm still missing where it gets applied!)
<blueyed> I'll email the debian packager.
<gnomefreak> blueyed: you shouldnt need to run dpatch to remove a patch just comment it out in 00list or remove it from there
<gnomefreak> remove patch itself if you are sure you wont need it
 * gnomefreak uses # just incase i need it again
<stani> persia: Which version number should I use for the SRU package of spe: from spe_0.8.2a+repack-1 to spe_0.8.2a+repack-1ubuntu0.1.0.7.04 (suggested by jdong)?
<blueyed> gnomefreak: the point is, patches/ looks like dpatch is used, but what-patch says "unknown" and dpatch does not get invoked in rules. So if I add my patch, I'll have to drop the patch which is supposed to be there.
<persia> stani: Which version is the fixed-in-hardy version?
<gnomefreak> blueyed: ah ok
<stani> persia: hardy is now still at spe (0.8.2a+repack-1) [universe]. (Later I will try to get spe-0.8.4.c in debian sid & hardy through PAPT.)
<persia> stani: More generally, from browsing the archives for previous SRUs, I believe best practice is to use a version number as I.J.K-XUbuntuY.Z, where I, J, and K are defined to match the upstream, X is the Debian revision, Y is the Ubuntu revision being updated, and Z is the number of the update.
<jdong> persia: spe has stayed at the same version for 3 releases (including hardy)
<jdong> persia: I've noticed most updates that way have a XubuntuY.Z.0.7.04 type of version number
<persia> stani: So, in your specific case, I suggest 0.8.2a+repack-1ubuntu0.1 for a gutsy SRU.  For feisty, you'll want to apply the same logic.
<jdong> but anyway, you are the expert at this :)
<persia> jdong: That's not what I'm seeing from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty-updates/universe/source/Sources.gz and http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy-updates/universe/source/Sources.gz
<stani> persia: yes but the debian package contains 'repack', that should be kept as this is an ubuntu specific fix (not to loose the connection with debian package) or not?
<jdong> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper-updates/universe/source/Sources.gz
<jdong> Binary: dircproxy
<jdong> Version: 1.0.5-4ubuntu0.6.06.1
<persia> jdong: Note that some packages are done that way, and the only firm rule is that a version number be crafted to be greater than the version to be updated, and less than the version in development.
<jdong> (stayed at same version)
<persia> stani: "I.J.K" == "0.8.2a+repack" in this case.
<jdong> persia: ok, yeah, so as long as feisty < gutsy < hardy we're all good :)
<persia> jdong: Actually, we can have feisty == gutsy < hardy, as well.
<jdong> persia: true; that works too
<jdong> might be best for spe just to do a 1ubuntu0.1 then
<persia> Looking at gutsy-updates, only iceape seems to use the 0.7.10 syntax.  The others are all .Z
<stani> persia: "0.8.2a+repack-1ubuntu0.1" would be then the same on feisty, this would seem logic as there is no difference in patch between, feisty, gutsy and hardy
<persia> stani: Hardy needs to be 0.8.2a+repack-1ubuntu1
<persia> (and needs to be uploaded first, and tested)
<proppy> persia: I get unittest++ into debian :)
<persia> (and yes, feisty and gutsy may be the same)
<proppy> persia: -2 on the way
<persia> proppy: Excellent.  I believe the sync is up to ~m, so it should be in hardy soon.
<proppy> persia: once -2 is uploaded I will ask for a sync in hardy :)
<stani> persia: so the sequence is first hardy, then gutsy, then feisty?
<persia> proppy: No need prior to DebianImportFreeze (December, I believe)
<proppy> persia: I made a mistake with the section on -1 so I won't ask to sync yet
<proppy> persia: yep but I'm afraid to forget
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-20
<coppro> hm... 11 days till release... should I start upgrading now?
<fmarier> would anybody be willing to sponsor a sync to fix this fairly serious bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docvert/+bug/286146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286146 in docvert "Please sync docvert 3.4-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> fmarier: I'll have a look at it.
<fmarier> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> fmarier: Thanks for taking interest in a downstream project.
<fmarier> one question though: when should one subscribe motu-release to a bug?
<fmarier> would that be for an SRU?
<ScottK> If it's post feature freeze and the change adds a new feature or after the RC is release, we'll approve all uploads.
<jdong> fmarier: SRU is motu-sru, btw
<ScottK> Until RC for Universe we trust developers to do bug fix updates.
<fmarier> ok, thanks, that clears things up
<ScottK> For packages in Main, ubuntu-release is approving all uploads now.
<fmarier> so if my fix had come after the 23rd, then i would have had to go through motu-release?
<ScottK> fmarier: Yes.
<ScottK> fmarier: Looks like persia already gave it sponsors approval, so it's in the archive admins hands to sync (probably tomorrow).
<fmarier> ScottK: wow, that was fast! :)
<fmarier> thanks
<ajmitch> hello fmarier
<fmarier> hi ajmitch
<ScottK> fmarier: Myself I'll tend to pay more attention to sponsorship requests when it's the Debian maintainer suggesting it.  I'm not alone in that.
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, you'd generally expect a very good knowledge of the package in question in that regard
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Plus I like to encourage repeat business.
<ajmitch> oh, google gadgets released, I wonder when we'll see the first packages pop up
<ajmitch> or it's probably old
 * NCommander is finally glad the gnat-4.2 transition is nearly done
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> warp10: there's another Colangelo that commented on your behindmotu interview :)
<warp10> dholbach: oh, looks like we are "relatives", in a certain manner. Ubuntu helps genealogy too: cool! :D
<dholbach> :)
<slytherin> anyone using openvpn here? I am looking for someone to try reproducing a bug and mark it as confirmed.
<slytherin> The bug is in openvpn plugin of network manager
<Koon> slytherin: which bug is it ?
<slytherin> Koon: bug 285138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285138 in network-manager-openvpn "Does not import certificate and key settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285138
<Koon> slytherin: I confirm it does not import the certificates/keys
<Koon> slytherin: i'm marking it as confirmed
<slytherin> Koon: Thanks. :-)
<persia> slytherin, Although this worked for you, in general you may find that the population of #ubuntu-bugs has more people willing to test things quickly.
<slytherin> hmm. Will keep in mind. :-)
<\sh> moins
<slytherin> persia: I have files the bug we discussed. 286095 and 286226. I have made sure that packages compile with intrepid pbuilder chroot.
<\sh> any thoughts on bug #250425 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250425 in zsnes "zsnes crashes with buffer overflow on startup" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250425
<persia> bugs #286095 and #286226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286095 in statcvs "Please sync statcvs 1:0.4.0.dfsg-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286095
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286226 in jta "Please sync 2.6+dfsg-1.1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286226
<persia> slytherin, This means we can drop the duplication in libjdom-java, right?
<slytherin> persia: yes
<persia> slytherin, Have you already filed the removal bug?
<slytherin> persia: No. I will do that once these syncs are done.
<persia> OK.
<persia> jta is already ACK'd.  verifying statcvs now.
<stochastic> hello, I'm new to packaging/bug fixes/etc... but this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/cecilia/+bug/236251/ has been hanging around for a while now and has a fix ready to be applied
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236251 in cecilia "Cecilia Locks up on start" [High,Triaged]
<stochastic> anyone want to give me some direction on this?
<persia> stochastic, Sure.
<laga> bah. i was already looking at it :)
<persia> laga: go ahead then :) I have other stuff to do, but I like cecila
<stochastic> thanks guys
<laga> stochastic: is the fix in that bug everything that's needed to get cecilia up and running on debian?
<laga> err, ubuntu.
<stochastic> laga: yes, that one change successfully fixed it on my machine
<stochastic> it needs to be applied in the .deb, before it's installed to the system; editing the /usr/share/cecilia/lib/prefs.tcl file directly does nothing
<didrocks> morning o/
<laga> okay. i hear that cecilia is broken with csound 5.x, that's why i'm wondering
<YokoZar> Is a minor upstream bugfix update better as an SRU or a backport?
<YokoZar> (wine 1.0.1)
<stochastic> laga: I haven't extensively tested it, I could do a couple quick tests
<laga> stochastic: yes, please do that
<stochastic> laga: I just successfully played a file with cecilia & csound 5 - I'll keep running some tests to see if any issues pop up but everything seems to work as expected
<stochastic> laga: cecilia itself does throw some errors every now & then, but none of them are fatal, and it looks to be more to do with it's code than any csound5 interaction
<laga> okay. if it's usable, then we can proceed with the debdiff
<laga> does the cecilia package have a patch system?
<stochastic> ??? I'm brand new to packages I don't know what you're asking
<laga> well, we need to introduce a change to the package which is not in the orig.tar.gz - the orig.tar.gz is the compressed file we get from upstream
<laga> usually, you will add a patch system which will apply the necessary changes during the build process
<stochastic> well all the cecilia packages are numbered with ubuntu1 in the repos if that means anything to you
<stochastic> and I see a .diff.gz file on the packages site
<laga> yeah, the .diff.gz holds debian/
<laga> ah, it has a patch system. debian/patches exists
<laga> and it uses dpatch.
<laga> stochastic: you need to add the patch to the patch system and generate a debdiff
<stochastic> can you point me to a howto on this, I'm really a newbie around packaging/maintaining
<laga> stochastic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FRecipes%2FDebdiff
<laga> sure
<laga> stochastic: that guide does not show you how to use dpatch
<stochastic> is there one around that does?
<laga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Dpatch - it's as simple as that. just run dpatch-edit-patch my-new-patch.dpatch and it will create a copy of the package. apply your patch inside that copy, hit ctrl+d and a new patch will have been created (verify that it's correct by looking in debian/patches/)
<laga> don't forget to add your patch to  debian/patches/00list
<laga> all instructions assume that you are in the top level directory of the package
<stochastic> laga: I really am over my head here, it's 1:40am here, and I've got homework that needs my attention
<stochastic> I'm not even getting very far with registering a GPG key
<stochastic> nevermind the diff file
<persia> stochastic, You don't need a GPG key.
<stochastic> the fist step in the first howto warned me that I did
<persia> stochastic, If you don't have one, you get a warning about being unable to sign the package.  This is only important if you were going to upload it to a restricted-access repository.
<persia> Which HOWTO?  I'll fix it.
<stochastic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FRecipes%2FDebdiff
<laga> stochastic: then do it tomorrow :)
<stochastic> thanks, I'll still read through that stuff eventually, it's good for me to learn
<persia> stochastic, Does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff look better now?
<persia> dholbach, What is the point of setting environment variables and configuring GPG for debdiffs?
<dholbach> persia: environment variables for dch
<persia> dholbach, OK.  Makes sense.
<stochastic> that's clearer, but still looks a little latin, I guess I just need to do some reading to orient myself with all this stuff.  thanks.
<laga> stochastic: feel free to ping me when you're having problems. i'm in GMT+2.
<laga> and i gotta run now :)
<didrocks> I have a question on build-stamp best practice. I see often a "rm build-stamp" on the clean target, but never a touch "build-stamp" to create it. Does doing "build: build-stamp" create it automatically?
<persia> didrocks, It depends on how make is configured.  By default, no.
<didrocks> persia: can you give me a tip for this rules file, please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/60044/
<persia> didrocks, I think it's probably useless in that case.  Try running debuild in the package directory, and then debian/rules clean.  This should result in no changes.
<persia> For extra safety, do this in a temporary directory.
<persia> (as it will overwrite the source package)
<didrocks> persia: yes, you're right :) But I still can't see how the flag file "build-stamp" is created (I see the rm in clean1 target, but not its creation)
<persia> didrocks, Is it created?  Maybe dpatch.make does it.
<didrocks> persia: don't this that dpatch.make creates it (it deals with patch/unpatch target only apparently)
<persia> didrocks, Could you rephrase?  I couldn't parse that.
<didrocks> oupss, sorry :)
<didrocks> persia: I don't thing that dpatch.make creates the build-stamp file flag, this one seems to deal only with patch/unpatch target
<didrocks> s/thing/think
<persia> didrocks, OK.  Does it get created when you run debuild ?
<didrocks> I must confess that I do not know/can't remember where those flag files are created when building
<persia> didrocks, They would be created in the base directory usually.  In any case, the rm line would tell you where they would be.
<didrocks> persia: oh, my bad, touch $@ touched it :(
<persia> didrocks, There you go.  Sorry I missed that.
<didrocks> persia: thanks a lot for your time :)
<AnAnt> when is superm1  available ?
<persia> AnAnt, Variable, but typically in relatively sane times for UTC+5
<persia> (at least according to LP : no guarantee that's the right timezone)
<AnAnt> well, I duno what to do
<AnAnt> oops, wrong window
<persia> Does anyone happen to know why I get a pan0 network device on a machine *without* bluetooth?
<Laney> persia: I appear to have one too, odd
<persia> Laney, And this is with no bluetooth hardware support, right?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Laney> persia: Correct. This machine has never seen bluetooth hardware
<Laney> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi Laney
<persia> Hmm.  I suspect that's a bug.
<directhex> pan0's labyrinth.
<Laney> ho ho
<G__81> hi all
<persia> G__81, Hey.  Did you find something on which to work yet?
<G__81> persia, yeah i have started with bug triaging yesterday earned some points. I have installed Ibex so could do some testing and triage today too :) and then get in the bug fixing mode too
<persia> G__81, Excellent!  Good luck.
<G__81> persia, thanks :)
<G__81> and wish you the same
<G__81> persia, can you give me the link for the bugs to be triaged ?
<persia> G__81, #ubuntu-bugs is the place to get that answer :)
<G__81> hmm ok i am on that channel too lets see if i get there
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<jcastro> Still looking for volunteers!
<G__81> hi jcastro i am new but i dont know how i could help
<G__81> hi jcastro i could help if there is something that i could do :)
<jcastro> I don't know, what is it you can do? :D
<G__81> i am currently into triaging. I have been doing contributions to fedora so i am kind of new to ubuntu's processes :)
<jcastro> ah no worries then, you'd probably be a better target as a participant than someone running a session then
<jcastro> G__81: openweek is basically designed to be sessions for people like you
<G__81> oh ok there are many things that ubuntu does extra when compared to fedora so these things are new :)
<G__81> yeah thanks
<G__81> where do people get this information are these communicated in some mailing lists
<G__81> saying that an open week is gonna happen
<G__81> so that i could subscribe ?
<jcastro> yeah, it hasn't been announced yet but it will be on ubuntu-devel-announce
<jcastro> I am still gathering people so that when it is announced the schedule isn't empty. :D
<jcastro> you'll want to subscribe to ubuntu-devel, and ubuntu-motu as well
<G__81> yeah i am in motu but heard that ubuntu-devel is moderated
<persia> G__81, That it's moderated only means you can't post : you're encouraged to read.
<G__81> oh :) i didnt know that
<G__81> then i could subscribe :)
<G__81> right now
<james_w> smarter: congratulations
<smarter> james_w: thanks :)
<RainCT> smarter: congrats!
<smarter> hey RainCT, thanks :)
<G__81> hi smarter congrats
<G__81> hi RainCT
<RainCT> Hi G__81
<smarter> thanks too G__81 (:
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: I don't think you need the .dirst file for itsalltext (and one of the entries is wrong, btw, which confirms that it isn't necessary)
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: beside that it looks OK to me, but better wait for asac or someone else to answer if you want a reliable opinion :)
<asac> RainCT: yes. the .dirs should be removed imo
<asac> unless a package wantes to provide an empty dir there is no need for it
<asac> at least thats my understanding of this ;)
 * sistpoty|work calls it a day ... cya
<RainCT> asac: Yep, the .dirs isn't necessary (it may be useful in other cases beside wanting an empty dir, like when files are moved manually with install/mv/etc, but definitely not with dh_links/dh_install). I told him to ask you for the case there's some other problem (though I doubt it, extensions are rather straightforward) :)
<persia> asac, RainCT .dirs is also useful to work around broken upstream install rules.
<persia> RainCT, When files are installed with install, one can provide the right arguments to create the directory.  mv shouldn't be used : cp is marginally better, and install generally preferred (whether wrapped in dh_install or alone)
<RainCT> persia: yep, the mv was a lapsus :)
<G__81> Hi RainCT i am working on triaging and i am enjoying it, apart from that how else can i contribute
<G__81> in addition to that i mean
<RainCT> G__81: Yeh, I remember those days when I started triaging... :).  Well, beside that there is of course packaging, bug fixing, etc.
<RainCT> G__81: and then more unrelated stuff like translating Ubuntu to your language, writing documentation and all that
<pochu> go dfiloni and nxvl! :)
<dfiloni> thanks pochu :)
<\sh> RainCT: you forget coding some weired python cruft ,->
<G__81> Have not done packaging at all :(
 * G__81 is nervous about packaging stuff
<sebner> \sh: \o/
<\sh> packaging is very handy, especially when your devs at work are coming to you with requests for newest crack for ubuntu....*grmpf*
<RainCT> \sh: that's implicit ;P
 * \sh wants to code again...
 * sebner feels slightly ingored by \sh :P :P :P
<\sh> sebner: dude, start fixing crossfire-client-gtk2 please on x86_64...it gives me two chars instead of one in inputboxes...i386 does the right thing ,-)
 * RainCT hugs \sh 
<\sh> sebner: nanana
<G__81> RainCT, how do i start off with packaging
<RainCT> sebner: and fix my GNOME ^^
<\sh> RainCT: ^5
<sebner> RainCT: you can't fix GNOME. It has to be b0rken. It has to be insane! GNOME FTW! :D
<G__81> RainCT, some starting point and then some team where in i could join and package something and send it for review
<G__81> is that a simple process
<G__81> ?
<sebner> \sh: lol, haven't seen you for a while now. how are you mate? :)
<\sh> sebner: busy with RL work :(
<\sh> sebner: I feel like that I'm some kind of Ubuntu Server entrepeneur for real commercial apps
<\sh> bleeding edge usage of ubuntu yay ,->
<RainCT> G__81: Uhm, didn't I tell you already? Just find somethin easy to fix (either from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize or anywhere else, or even some bug which annoys you and you think is easy to fix) and try to get a fix ready for it following the info on the wiki, then attach the debdiff to the bug and subscribe ubunut-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-main-sponsors (depending if the package is in universe or main).
<sebner> \sh: what can be better ;P
<RainCT> G__81: If you think you need some more help than just the wiki then you could join the mentoring programme
<\sh> including running windows server + windows powershell under vmware-server on ubuntu ,->
<sebner> \sh: oh dear, what can be worse ^^
<\sh> sebner: adobe flash media server on RedHat Enterprise Linux
<\sh> sebner: windows never crashed for me while running under vmware-server ,_>
<aos101> If I want to do a SRU for a package in main, do I just subscribe ubuntu-sru and they can upload the debdiff to -proposed, or do I need to also subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to first get it uploaded to -proposed?
<RainCT> aos101: you'll need both
<aos101> RainCT: Shall I subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors first to get it uploaded, or just subscribe both at the same time?
 * RainCT is not sure
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<aos101> RainCT: Ok Thanks.  I'll probably subscribe both at the same time, and they can see what I'm trying to do.
<POX> oh, MIR bug means a package will be included in Ubuntu's main (/me wondered what doko wants from him ;)
<POX> "good maintainance in debian" hehe ;)
<doko> yes, looking at component mismatches
<POX> doko: btw, you want to sync pyenchant with Debian if it was build with enchant 1.4.1 or later
<doko> too late, that's for jaunty then
<POX> doko: please try this in Ubuntu: python -c 'import enchant'
<POX> if it will fail you *need* to sync
<doko> POX: doesn't crash on amd64
<POX> ok, so I guess it was built with one of previous versions
<doko> trying to rebuild ...
<POX> (actually enchant is the one with fixes, pyenchant has to be rebuilded only)
<POX> version in Ubuntu probably has broken shlibs
<csilk> HI, would it be possible for somebody to take a very quick look over the 2nd section of this license and help me decide if it's suitable for the Ubuntu repositories or not?
<csilk> http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/gsview/LICENCE
<csilk> *Section 2 Restrictions
<ScottK> doko: Since pyenchant is in Universe it's not actually too late.
<doko> $ python -c 'import enchant'
<doko> Traceback (most recent call last):
<doko>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
<doko>   File "enchant/__init__.py", line 90, in <module>
<doko>     import _enchant as _e
<doko> ImportError: No module named _enchant
<doko> ScottK: but we have to be quick before pitti approves the MIR ;p
<ScottK> Yes
<POX> doko: just sync echant
<POX> and then rebuild pyenchant
<ScottK> Enchant is already in Main, so that'll need release team approval.
<james_w> csilk: "Distribution of the Program or any work based on the Program by a commercial organization to any third party is prohibited if any payment is made in connection with such distribution,"
<csilk> james_w,  that's the bit I was concerned about
<csilk> To me, that looks like a big no no
<POX> all latest NMUs in enchant (Ubuntu is missing 2 of them) were aproved by Debian's RMs so I guess Ubuntu ones will not mind
<james_w> csilk: yeah, me too, but I'm no expert.
<ScottK> POX: We've already got the non-matching dicts patch.  Was there something else that was important in Enchant?
<james_w> csilk: also, does the app link against anything GPL?
<csilk> james_w,  no it's all under that one license as far as I can see
<doko> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyenchant/+bug/286542
<POX> ScottK: see enchant's changelog, you need all of them
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286542 in pyenchant "sync-request" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> james_w and csilk: Such restrictions are acceptable in Multiverse.
<csilk> ScottK,  is there a written policy I can refer to for future reference?
<ScottK> POX: So it looks like except the shlibs bump we have everything already.
<ScottK> csilk: Not that I've found.  Bottom line is that as long as it's generally distributable it can go into Multiverse.  No commercial distribution is one standard reason to get stuck there.
<csilk> ScottK, but there is a possibilty that app could end up being distributed commerically if it's in multiverse
<csilk> *that the app
<POX> ScottK: if you rebuild pyenchant with current Ubuntu's enchant version, it will not work, see doko's traceback
<ScottK> POX: Right.  I think I got that now.
<RainCT> csilk: but then that's the problem of the person distributing it, not Ubuntu's
<ScottK> csilk: It's distributable by Canonical/Ubuntu and that's what matters.
<ScottK> csilk: Any Ubuntu derivative REALLY needs to review licenses in multiverse before distributing packages from there.
<csilk> Yeah I see your point RainCT, ScottK. Any derivative being distributed is not Canonicals problem therefore the app is fine for inclusion in multiverse. fantastic, thanks for the help :)
<superm1> AnAnt, pong
<ScottK> csilk: One final piece of advice: Multiverse is not Free software and so tends to be a low priority for inclusion.  Just because it could be included doesn't mean MOTU will be motivated to review and upload it.
<ScottK> Odds are significantly better if the license is fixed.
<RainCT> omg Ubuntu just got mad.. /me restarts
<csilk> ScottK,  yeah I understand, having a mentor really helps in that situation though.
<RainCT> weird.. aptitude broke :'(
<RainCT> sebner: I think I'm starting to support your theory :)
<sebner> RainCT: well, I use apt :P
<Simpson_Penner_> ihr seid alle idioten
<RainCT> That *really* weird.. Epiphany freezed, half a minute later I killed it, then when I tried to start it again it complained about some missing bonobo thing (about which Google doesn't know anything), I did sudo aptitude reinstall epiphany-browser and now aptitude segfaults (but epiphany works again after restarting) o_O
<Simpson_Penner_> uff
<RainCT> Hobbsee: kick him ^
<Simpson_Penner_> jo tu das xD
<Simpson_Penner_> nur dumm das das hier keiner kann haha
<Simpson_Penner_> looser
<RainCT> sebner: now I can add a weird troll to my list LOL
<Simpson_Penner_> allerg
<Simpson_Penner_> reasg
<Simpson_Penner_> rs
<Simpson_Penner_> gr
<Simpson_Penner_> hz6t
<Simpson_Penner_> h
<Simpson_Penner_> 6
<Simpson_Penner_> u
<Simpson_Penner_> drh
<Simpson_Penner_> 56
<ScottK> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<Simpson_Penner_> utzj
<Simpson_Penner_> u
<Simpson_Penner_> zk
<ScottK> PriceChild: Thank you.
<sebner> grr
<sebner> Bad german troll
<AnAnt> superm1: I need your help with dkms !
<AnAnt> superm1: I added dkms support to sl-modem, but it only compiles one module (slamr) , but fails to compile ungrab-winmodem
<AnAnt> superm1: and make.log doesn't give any useful info
<superm1> AnAnt, normally when you compile it, do you use the same make command for building both modules?
<AnAnt> superm1: no, another make command
<superm1> AnAnt, well then you'll need to specify that other command in your dkms control file too
<AnAnt> superm1: I did, http://pastebin.com/mfc42622
<superm1> by using several MAKE directives, eg MAKE[0], MAKE[1]
<AnAnt> that's what I've done, please look at pastebin url
<superm1> AnAnt, do you possibly need to be pushd'ing in your second directive then?
<superm1> i'm not sure the structure of sl-modem's stuff
<AnAnt> superm1: I tried that, but it was of no use
<superm1> AnAnt, well the easiest method to debug then, switch into the directory that's being used for building, and then run that make command as you see there
<superm1> make sure that it spits out the module properly
<AnAnt> superm1: done that, and it worked !
<superm1> AnAnt, then are you sure the second directive is being actually called in the first place when it fails?
<AnAnt> superm1: how would I know ?
<POX> f*ck, pyenchant fails in unstable as well
<superm1> AnAnt, well that make.log should show, and/or when you do dkms build you may see it
<AnAnt> superm1: dkms says: Error!  Build of ungrab-winmodem.ko failed for: 2.6.27-7-generic (i686)
<AnAnt> Consult the make.log in the build directory
<AnAnt> superm1: make.log says: DKMS make.log for sl-modem-2.9.11~20080817 for kernel 2.6.27-7-generic (i686) Mon Oct 20 20:41:43 EET 2008
<AnAnt> /var/lib/dkms/sl-modem/2.9.11~20080817/build
<AnAnt> and that's it !
<superm1> AnAnt, maybe try just putting it all in the first MAKE directive ,like this : "pushd ${dkms_tree}/sl-modem/2.9.11~20080817/build; make -C drivers KERNEL_DIR=$kernel_source_dir KVERS=$kernelver ; make -C ungrab-winmodem KERNEL_DIR=$kernel_source_dir KVERS=$kernelver; popd"
<AnAnt> superm1: that worked !
<superm1> AnAnt, those different MAKE directives are intended to be used when trying to do different make commands for different kernels usually, i don't believe they are sequentially executed in any case, but i'd have to double check
<AnAnt> so I should just keep it like that ?
<AnAnt> I mean both in same MAKE directive ?
<superm1> AnAnt, just remove the second MAKE directive
<sebner> superm1: btw, does your ipod-convience also works with the new ipod touch2? if yes, *how* good?
<superm1> sebner, if someone will trade me their touch2 for my touch, i'll tell you :)
<sebner> superm1: hrhr ^^, /me is thinking about getting one for christmas but you know .. touch and phone with ubuntu ... :\
<superm1> sebner, surely if you can jailbreak the touch2, it should work
<sebner> superm1: /me is wondering what's your magic behind jailbreaking
<superm1> sebner, i'm personally really pissed about the nike stuff being built into touch2
<sebner> superm1: why?
<superm1> sebner, well now I either have to go buy a touch2, or buy a nano to use nike+
<superm1> i was hoping to just spend 30 bucks on the dongle when they released the ipod touch software for it
<superm1> sebner, well the ipod-convenience stuff only works if you jailbreak it, so you'll have to read about that stuff
<fabrice_sp> Hi RainCT: does it mean that if I delete the dirs file for itsalltext, it would be ok ;-) (by the way, it comes from debian packaging)
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: yep
<sebner> superm1: kk, well I'm thinking about nano or touch. nano would clearly the easier decision ^^
<fabrice_sp> RainCT: great! I'll change that and upload now (and also the change for vimperator)
<POX> doko: wait with that sync, looks like after latest changes in enchant I need to fix something in pyenchant as well
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<doko> POX: I don't think we can have a sync for enchant before the RC, but you should point this out to seb128
<POX> doko: I'll fix it in Debian and then we'll see if it will be enough for Ubuntu
<POX> looks like .so file is in wrong dir now, I'll check why
<AnAnt> superm1: thanks a lot !
<superm1> AnAnt, no prob.
<AnAnt> superm1: btw, sl-modem supports both module-assistant & dkms
<superm1> AnAnt, neat.  i'll have to take a look at how you implemented the combination of both when it lands in a source package in the archive at some point
<AnAnt> superm1: I can upload to debian mentors if you want
<superm1> AnAnt, my time to give it a good look is low now, so i'll look later :)
<AnAnt> ok
<fabrice_sp> asac: what do you you mean with your last comment on bug #286225?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/286225/+text)
<fabrice_sp> (this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vimperator/+bug/286225)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286225 in vimperator "[intrepid] iceweasel-vimperator: Depends: iceweasel (>= 3.0~) but it is not instalable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> superm1: Thanks for jumping in on the brightness related bugs.
<superm1> ScottK, unfortunately that one kernel bug causes it to be very difficult to debug the functionality of the rest of them.  i really hope the kernel bug is fixed or this is going to be a very bad situation
<ScottK> superm1: Right.  Well at least you understand the situation.  All I could do if fix guidance-power-manager not to crash in response.
<superm1> ScottK, yeah i've been aware of it for a while, wgrant pointed out a lot of the details for me, so i've assembled at least what i know about it
<ScottK> superm1: I think it's potential SRU material if you can get it sorted.
<ScottK> superm1: Speaking of SRU, how's bluetooth going?
<superm1> ScottK, well kernel guys should be looking at this already to try to fix before 8.10 is live.
<superm1> ScottK, as for bluetooth, upstream's accepting a majority of my patch
<superm1> ScottK, still has missing pieces for the integration, so at the going rate it will likely be a post release SRU
<ScottK> superm1: That's not horrible.  Nothing until Jaunty would have been horrible.
<ScottK> superm1: Thanks for working on it.
<ScottK> superm1: We are planning on fielding KDE 4.1.3 in intrepid-updates so anything there we will automatically get.
<superm1> ScottK, well i'm not sure how close to releases KDE trunk is, but automatically getting it would be awesome
<ScottK> superm1: Trunk is towards 4.2 now.  We can probably try to backport it.
<ScottK> So you might discuss how much of this they'll allow into the 4.1 branch.
<POX> ScottK: I have pyenchant fixed in DPMT repo now, could you check if it works in Ubuntu?
<superm1> ScottK, once it's all stable we'll see.  backporting it will be very easy in any case
<ScottK> With our current enchant or the one from Debian?
<ScottK> POX: ^^
<POX> Ubuntu's enchant, I know it works with Debian's
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> POX: Is build, install, import enchant a sufficent test?
<POX> yup
<ScottK> POX: 1.4.2-1 "UNRELEASED"?
<POX> no, lenny branch
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> POX: Bulding now.
<zooko> Folks, I think there is a problem in the way Ubuntu packages the Crypto++ library and the way Ubuntu's version of Python dlopen's it.
<zooko> http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/faq.html#dso
<zooko> I'm not sure exactly where the problem lies, yet.
<zooko> But symbols exported by libcryptopp.so dpon'
<ScottK> POX: It wants libenchant-dev > 1.4.2-3.3 and I don't have that here.
<zooko> don't get resolved properly when they are also used by a Python module that I wrote.
<POX> ScottK: lower it to .3.1 and check if it works
<ScottK> OK
 * POX needs to update his Ubuntu chroot
<POX> kf
<POX> sorry
<ScottK> POX: Works
<POX> hmm... so why when I builded it with -3.1 without the patch I created today, it worked in Debian?
<ScottK> POX: Because 3.1ubuntu1 has the patch from 3.3?
<POX> but it doesn't have the more important one from 3.2
<POX> anyway, I will upload pyenchant -3 with enchant -3.3 in B-D and then create a version for Ubuntu
<ScottK> Dunno.  Don't have the mental bandwidth currently to deal with it.
<ScottK> POX: I can do the Ubuntu one.  It's what I just built with a bit of changelog futzing.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you please approve Bug #286542.  I've confirmed it works, but it's more of a merge now.  I'll upload after approval.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286542 in pyenchant "sync-request" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286542
 * DktrKranz looks
<POX> ScottK: I've changed changelog (added more info) if you want to have as small delta as possible
 * POX is commiting
<ScottK> POX: OK.  I'll look.  I'm calling this 1.4.2-2ubuntu1
<DktrKranz> ScottK, POX: speaking about rdepends, do new APIs break anything?
<POX> pyenchant's rdepends? no (at least when I tested it last time)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Go with what POX said.  It's totally broken now in any case.
<POX> and most important rdependency - gaupol - is working fine (gaupol is mine as well :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<ScottK> POX: Did you commit your change?
<POX> wait a sec
<POX> done
<DktrKranz> ScottK, done.
<RainCT> If someone here knows GTK, how can I get the absolute position (x,y) of an Allocation object?
<ScottK> POX: Got it.  Thanks.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<ScottK> POX, doko, DktrKranz: pyenchant uploaded.
<DktrKranz> thanks
 * DktrKranz grumbles at italian {Ubuntu,Debian} mirrors...
<sebner> DktrKranz: it's italian ones. what do you expect :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, borrow them some bandwith
<txwikinger> ROFL
<sebner> NOOOOOO. All the 16mbit are mine mine. My treasure, my treasure, MIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEE
<txwikinger> Don't use British ones, or your assets might be frozen due to the Anti-Terrorsim Act 2001
<DktrKranz> sebner, they're located at "GARR", pronounce it "GRRRRRR"
<sebner> lol
<sebner> DktrKranz: btw, no SRU for feisty anymore !!!!! :D :P :D
<DktrKranz> sebner, have you ever prepared one for feisty?
<DktrKranz> IIRC, my first upload as MOTU was a SRU
<sebner> DktrKranz: nope xD but I start preparing for the others tomorrow ^^
<DktrKranz> heh
<DktrKranz> Err ftp://ftp.it.debian.org unstable/main libwww-perl 5.813-1
<DktrKranz>   Data socket timed out [IP: 213.92.8.5 21]
<sebner> DktrKranz: well, you are the born boring stable guy :P
 * DktrKranz starts to load his guns
<sebner> DktrKranz: what about using us?
<DktrKranz> much better ftp.sebner.debian.org
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> TIME OUT
<DktrKranz> I guess you won't time out very often
<sebner> becaus I won't be running very often? ^^
 * DktrKranz is going to own sebner's box one of these days
 * sebner runs away and hides 
<DktrKranz> debian 502353
<ubottu> Debian bug 502353 in jhead "jhead: Security issues fixed in 2.84" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/502353
<NCommander> When using CDBS, is there a hook before dh_install is called?
<RainCT> NCommander: yep
<NCommander> RainCT, that would be?
<RainCT> NCommander: mkbuilddirs or something like that
<RainCT> let me check
<NCommander> thanks
<RainCT> NCommander: makebuilddir is it
<RainCT> that's the first thing to be called
<NCommander> That's made after debian/tmp is populated, but before dh_install is run, right?
 * NCommander needs to rm -r some files
<RainCT> but perhaps you don't need to get that far. configure, build, etc. may be enough
<DktrKranz> NCommander, if you need some rm -fr, try installing slack (<< 0.15.2-3) ;)
<lfaraone> Hey, how do you patch a binary file in a package? (example-content)
<james_w> lfaraone: I don't think you do for that package
<james_w> are you trying to propose a change?
<lfaraone> james_w: yes, in bug 208561 the reporter emailed me a superior (and smaller) version of the speex file.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208561 in example-content "Speex Audio file is a non-ideal bit-rate" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208561
<james_w> lfaraone: I imagine that package is in bzr
<lfaraone> james_w: uh, how would I find that out, the repo isn't publicized anywhere that I can tell...
<lfaraone> nvm.
<ajmitch> NOTICE: 'example-content' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at:
<ajmitch> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-content/ubuntu
<lfaraone> ajmitch: I found it.
<lfaraone> james_w: so what, I open another branch on lp, fork, replace, commit, push, apply for merge?
<james_w> lfaraone: yeah
<james_w> lfaraone: I'd subscribe the sponsors to your bug and add a pointer to your branch
<lfaraone> james_w: do I set it to "in progress"?
<james_w> doesn't really matter for sponsorship
<james_w> it would just make sure no-one else works on it
<lfaraone> james_w: odd, bzr seems to have frozen on `| [=====================================================================                                    ] Copying content texts 3/5
<james_w> probably copying some large binary files
<ajmitch> it's not a small package
<lfaraone> woot, done
<lfaraone> james_w: you wouldn't happen to be a main sponsor, would you? :)
<james_w> 'fraid not
<james_w> subscribe the sponsors, and speak to dholbach tomorrow, he touched the package last
<james_w> and he'll love me for saying it :-)
<lfaraone> james_w: lol.
<ScottK> james_w: For your everything in bzr project, the special case of packages maintained in a external repo now has a live case.  The current Ubuntu clamav uploads are in the alioth pkg-clamav Git repo.
<james_w> ScottK: ok, thanks. Keep doing that then, and I'll talk to you when we can look at interesting cases.
<ScottK> james_w: Will do.  Having a common repo with Debian is doing wonders for cooperation and I'd hate to lose that.
<james_w> yeah, I would never ask you to, active co-operation with Debian is going to gain you far more than having the packages in bzr, and having them in git on alioth is almost as good as fitting in with the rest of the packages for many use cases of having them available the same way as other packages
<james_w> it will just be to work out how we can mirror the git repo in bzr in the best way that gives the consistency without any hassle
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-21
<james_w> ScottK: did you fakesync screenlets?
<james_w> I mean manually sync, don't I?
<directhex> kitchensync?
<csilk> Is there anyway to override the default entry for the maintainer name that dh_make generates?
<csilk> I cant see a flag in dh_make --useage to do this
<csilk> Anyone here?
<ScottK> csilk: Just edit it in debian/control to what you want.
<csilk> Yeah I did
<csilk> I was just wondering if dh_make had semi-auto way of doing it
<ScottK> Dunno.  Starting a fresh package from scratch is a rare event for me.
<csilk> Ok, well it really doesnt matter now, doing it manually isn't a hassle, thanks
<ajmitch> from what I can see, setting DEBFULLNAME should work
<ScottK> bigon: Is your pending empathy upload bugfix only?
<ScottK> superm1: What are the compatibility binaries in your pending bluez upload?
<nxvl> ScottK: Are you going to UDS this time?
<ScottK> nxvl: No.
<nxvl> ScottK: why?
<cody-somerville> because Canonical can't afford him ;]
<cody-somerville> (inside joke)
<nxvl> heh
<ScottK> nxvl: It's a hard to justify another full week off work and I don't particularly like the new sponsorship model.  I think I've proven my ability to contribute adequately without messing with brainstorm.
<nxvl> sounds fair
<ajmitch> these newfangled new tools... why, kids in my day... :)
<nxvl> and yes, i hate it too
<nxvl> but, some people love it
<nxvl> i get into the conclusion that is just needed to write the idea you have in branstorm and then just ask for sponsorship
<ScottK> nxvl: They're welcome to love it, just don't make me using it a requirement for UDS.
<ScottK> nxvl: Yes.  I decline to do that.
<cody-somerville> It is far from a requirement for UDS IMHO that means very little.
<nxvl> exactly what i thought :D
<csilk> is czb appears where a date would usually appear, what does that mean?
<ajmitch> ScottK: why do you dislike it?
<ScottK> cody-somerville: It's a requirement for sponsorship.
<ScottK> ajmitch: I think I've proven myself already.
<csilk> n/m sorted
<ajmitch> and brainstorm is about tracking ideas to discuss, not people
<ScottK> Yes.  I think it's reasonably well established I can contribute good ideas without it.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, If you don't like brainstorm and don't want to use it then I suggest asking for sponsorship if you desire it in the future (if the brainstorm model is ever used again).
<ScottK> ajmitch: To me it's not substantially different than saying you can only get sponsored to UDS if you post ideas in Ubuntu Forums.
<ajmitch> or the wiki, or the mailing list
<ScottK> cody-somerville: There was only one process presented to the community.
<ajmitch> it's just another tool
<ScottK> Yes, but I don't particularly care for the voting and the arguing.
<ajmitch> and they are not a required part of using brainstorm for UDS
<ScottK> If I'm going to present ideas, I'd like it to be to a group of peers, not to end users.  I honestly don't care what they think.
<ScottK> ajmitch: If I post my ideas there, I'll end up defending them.
<ScottK> I'd just rather stay away.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, Do you think it would have been wise to say "Oh, and if you don't like brainstorm then feel free to just flood our mailboxes like usual."?
<nxvl> heh
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Or perhaps "the traditional sponsorship model is still an option".
<nxvl> i don't think there is a way to flood jono's jcastro's or daniels mailboxes
<ScottK> Or maybe looking at who came last time and ask.
<nxvl> they just get to much e-mail daily
<cody-somerville> What /was/ the traditional model?
<nxvl> ScottK: the traditional model is canonical's internal
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: people are silently invited
<nxvl> cody-somerville: canonical employees recommending people
<cody-somerville> Right
<ScottK> From my perspective it was talk to the relevant team leads.
<ScottK> It sort of worked for me.  I asked too late for Boston, but it was good for Prague.
 * ajmitch has had nothing to contribute to UDS lately
<nxvl> ScottK: yeah, but that model was to canonical driven, as in invite the people that will make us accomplish our goals, which might be different from community ones
<nxvl> Prague was fun
<cody-somerville> Yes Prague was.
<ajmitch> nxvl: I think it was fair, given that canonical is paying
<ScottK> nxvl: Yes, but brainstorm is end user driven.  I don't see it being particularly relevant for community developers.
<nxvl> ajmitch: mmm, agreed
<ajmitch> others were free to attend if they were sponsored by other companies or organisations
<ScottK> Yes.  I paid for myself to go to part of Boston.
<cody-somerville> Folks: The original model was names pulled out of a hat
<nxvl> cody-somerville: no exactly
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: not quite so random, but close enough
<persia> ajmitch, As far as I've heard, it's still the case that anyone who wants to show up is welcome.
<ajmitch> persia: I'd expect that to still be true :)
<ajmitch> I'd hope that continues as more companies become involved with ubuntu & can sponsor their developers to go
<ajmitch> rather than it being totally canonical
 * ScottK looks around for one of these companies.
<persia> Certainly.  I'd like to see more of an ecosystem.
<ajmitch> ScottK: google, for one
<nxvl> need to go
<nxvl> read you guys later
<ajmitch> last time it was at mt view there were a number of google developers around
<Hobbsee> ugh, trolls
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee :)
<cody-somerville> \o/
 * ajmitch isn't trolling much
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Where?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: here, earlier
<ScottK> Ah.
<cody-somerville> A lot of companies sponsor their developers to go
<ajmitch> several hours ago
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Yes.  One of the problems with being an independent.
<csilk> Is there are more complete set of documentation on the creation etc of .desktop files onther than the wiki?
<csilk> *other
<nhandler> csilk: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
<csilk> thanks
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i think it's moer just they want the brainstorm to be abused by sticking developer-related ideas on it, that really don't fit the criteria
<Hobbsee> no great problem with that, though
<lifeless> fwiw, I've just dropped a mail to jono/dholbach relating this issue
<ScottK> lifeless: Oh?
<persia> lifeless, Isn't jorge handling UDS this time?
<lifeless> persia: dunno; I was thinking 'scottk is a ubuntu dev' and thats why I cc'd dholbach
<lifeless> ScottK: your position makes sense to me, (whether its perception or reality) that having to put things on brainstorm to be sponsored doesn't make sense
<ScottK> lifeless: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> ScottK, lifeless: i mean, if canonical says "abuse the bugtracker for this", then people will do it.    It just doesn't seem like a terribly sensible thing to say in teh first place.
<lifeless> I certainly think that folk that do put interesting ideas on brainstorm that are not known from other sources should be sponsored
<ScottK> Right.  If it had been the usual way plus this new one, I thik that would have made sense.
<persia> I'd rather see more flexible subsidies.  Some of us mostly need subsidy for lodging, some for travel, some for neither.  The perception that attendance is related to subsidy is one of the things that helps discourage other groups from sending people, or people attending on their own accord.
<lifeless> anyhow
<lifeless> I don't have time right now to dive deep in; but it seemed like something out of whack that the folk coordinating uds should know of
<lifeless> so I dropped a mail of to two such folk
<lifeless> *off*
<lifeless> enough said :>
<Hobbsee> persia: that's a given option, and has been there for a while, iir
<Hobbsee> c
<persia> Hobbsee, Well, sorta.  The last announcement didn't have nearly as much emphasis on hauling oneself somewhere as did e.g. the UDU announcement.  Also, while I don't pretend to understand the details, I have the impression that there is only full funding or none available.
<Hobbsee> persia: right, well, the latter part is false - it asks you that in the sponsorship app, towards teh end.
<Hobbsee> as in, "tick which ones you need sponsorship for: "
<Hobbsee> <travel>  <accomodation>, then asks some other questions
<persia> Cool.  That's an improvement.
<Hobbsee> afaik, various people only did get sponsorship for one or the other previously, after discussing it with (i presume) claire.
<Hobbsee> announcements:  agree, it's not clear
<superm1> ScottK, these are hidd, dund, pand
<superm1> ScottK, for people that can't pair with the GUI
<ScottK> superm1: They don't help the KDE problem then?
<superm1> ScottK, they provide a possible solution people can use in KDE, but don't help the main KDE problem
<coppro> what is the KDE problem?
<coppro> since I'm having a KDE-related problem right now...
<superm1> coppro, KDE doesn't have BlueZ 4.x support
<ScottK> coppro: The KDE problem we're discussing is Bluetooth related.
<coppro> oh
<persia> superm1, Do you happen to know why pan0 appears on non-bluetooth capable machines?
<coppro> mine is upgrade-related
<superm1> persia, I don't actually have non-bluetooth capable machines at all...
<superm1> persia, so this is the first i'm hearing of it
<ScottK> superm1: I'd have said the problem is that Ubuntu updated to Bluez 4.x without knowing if it affected Kubuntu, but whatever.
<persia> superm1, Yeah, that's part of why I didn't discover it until yesterday :)
<ScottK> coppro: Try #kubuntu-kde4
<superm1> persia, if you stop bluetoothd, does it go away?
<persia> ScottK, There's more to it than that.
<superm1> persia, or if you rmmod btusb ?
<ScottK> persia: There is not.
<coppro> ScottK: yeah, I figured it out
<coppro> I just got scared shitless when I saw my upgrade was removing all my precious KDE4 packages
<persia> ScottK, Well, OK.  Bluetooth keyboards didn't work in KDE before the update either, even with the deprecated hidd.
<coppro> until I investigated and found they were renamed to replace the kde3 packages
<ScottK> persia: If it'd been tested and it had been known to break KDE and it was decided it was needful to do so, then I'd have actually be OK with that.
<persia> ScottK, That makes sense, and I don't mean to say that what happened was a good thing, I just don't think that the social breakdown was the only problem.
<superm1> persia, something else that I've noticed, if your hardware supports a bluetooth power switch, you can turn it off on the GUI, but never turn it back on...
<superm1> which is a bit of a usability misfortune
<superm1> or oversight is probably a better term
<ScottK> persia: Certainly, but it's sufficient in my opinion and it's not the only one this cycle.  We had to seed the Gnome network manager applet for a while because network-manager was updated and totally broke Knetworkmanager
<persia> superm1, Indeed.  /etc/init.d/bluetooth should probably check for the existence of a bluetooth adaptor.
<persia> ScottK, Right.  There were several social failures, and they were particularly bad, and shouldn't have happened.  Steps should be taken to avoid them in the future.
<superm1> persia, not necessarily
<persia> On the other hand, in the specific case of bluetooth, there are also other technical issues involved (I have no idea about network manager)
<superm1> persia, you break USB dongles then
<ScottK> persia: Well the response so far seems to be along the lines of shrug, you're a derivative, get over it.
<persia> superm1, Ah, because there's no way to start up on insertion.  Hrm.  Something to think about for Jaunty then.
<superm1> persia, I mean you can have udev rules I suppose to kickstart bluetoothd
<persia> ScottK, That's the wrong response.  Ubuntu Desktop isn't a magic flavour, and shouldn't get a special bonus.
<ScottK> persia: I agree.
<ScottK> I do hope that some of those going to UDS can work on a solution to this problem.
<persia> superm1, Right, but it's one thing to ask for a check to be added to an init script for intrepid, it's another thing to introduce a udev hook.  Not enough time to test.
<superm1> persia, oh of course, I wasn't meaning as a solution now
<persia> ScottK, Although the flavours I work with all benefited in the case of bluetooth, I've a fairly strong interest in finding ways to make sure that Ubuntu Desktop isn't special.
<superm1> persia, but in the case about pan0, it does appear that if you stop bluetoothd it goes away
<persia> That's one of the reasons that I am behind ArchiveReorganisation : it clearly delineates Desktop from Core, so when things touch Core, it's clear they need to be tested with all the flavours.
<Hobbsee> ah yes, tha'ts the lot of mail i need to read.
<persia> superm1, Yep.  That was the "Indeed" above.
<Hobbsee> persia: i presume there will be a UDS session on that, or something?
<persia> Hobbsee, Actually, I hope there *won't* be a session about ArchiveReorganisation.  There was one in Prague.  A spec has been drafted.  A majority of Tech Board members attended the session, and have reviewed the draft without requesting changes.  It only awaits implementation.
<Hobbsee> persia: sorry, what i actually *meant* to ask was more a session on the deliniation of core and desktop, and how that relates to uploads which break derivatives, etc.
<Hobbsee> but iguess that's more of a release team thing
<superm1> persia, well with things like this, another problem that isn't addressed then, the core gnome and kde folk don't necessarily work on the same features with other external applications at the same time.  this will continue to come up over and over.  the only granularity that will be able to be provided is holding back one or the other while the other catches up
<persia> superm1, Add Hildon and Xfce to the list, and I agree with you.
<ajmitch> persia: a number of things like that get delayed
<superm1> persia, even there i'd not agree with that statement.  xfce is gtk based, and doesn't have a fair deal of external applications that are specific to it and would break.  hildon, i'm not positive
<ajmitch> like the 2-year-old spec about the tech board
<persia> ajmitch, Which one is that?
<ajmitch> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/techboard-2006
<persia> superm1, Hrm?  Just because hildon and xfce are gtk+ based doesn't mean things don't break, or that it's not worth discussion.
<ajmitch> persia: namely that the TB has been overdue on a new election for 2 years
<persia> superm1, It's precisely the lack of testing for such things that makes it hard on the flavours, which is bad.
<superm1> persia, i'm saying things won't break in the same fashion that they have for network manager and bluez.  but I understand the point you are getting at
<persia> ajmitch, Ah, that.  I understand there will be an election soonish : at least candidates have been evaluated.
<persia> superm1, Well, except that the reason that bluez didn't break for hildon was because I tested it, and applied a patch to the source.
<persia> superm1, Mind you, I'm not complaining about this case, as the flavours I worked on improved.  I have sympathy for Kubuntu, and can well imagine a case where some change would break something.  As a general rule, I think clearer delineation of core from flavour (with Ubuntu Desktop as just another flavour) is of benefit to all.
<ScottK> superm1: Specifically in the case of bluetooth it was a major unplanned upgrade and so the fact that other DE's weren't working on the feature SHOULD had held Gnome back or at least it should have been considered.
<StevenK> The hell it was unplanned
<ScottK> StevenK: Where's the approved spec?
<persia> ScottK, I disagree.  I know that it was tested for gnome, hildon, and xfce.  I know there was email to kubuntu-devel that went unanswered.
<ScottK> It was a reactive fix to deal with problems that came up during development.
<ScottK> persia: Said mail had no deadlines and there was no announcement that an upload was immiment.
<StevenK> ScottK: Just because it didn't have a spec doesn't mean it was unplanned
<ScottK> persia: I caused that mail to be sent because I discussed it with superm1 and I was suprised by the upload.
<ScottK> StevenK: It was a reaction to problems, not something planned for this release.
<persia> ScottK, Understood.  It's just that nobody but Kubuntu ignored it.  I have sympathy for the situation, I'd like to see the social issues resolved.  I don't think that the Kubuntu response to the specific case of bluetooth is balanced.  To the larger issues, the response makes more sense.
<ScottK> persia: If the mail had said "and we need it tested by" or there had been a followup that said "We need to know one way or the other soon" I'd agree.
<ScottK> It was on my TODO and if I'd know the deadline it'd have been higher.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if it doesn't say, it probably needs to be tested asap.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that's the normal idea, post-FF.
<ScottK> Yes, well there's lots of ASAP stuff.
<Hobbsee> and of coruse it didn't say a date, as it was asking for feedback on the new package, before getting it uploaded, which may well have delayed the upload date.
<ScottK> Right, which is why I added the alternative of a followup that said, "Hey, we're about to pull the trigger on this."
<Hobbsee> ScottK:
<Hobbsee> Provided nothing detrimental comes up, these packages should ideally be
<Hobbsee> uploaded to Intrepid shortly after beta.
<Hobbsee> when were they uploaded?
<ScottK> I don't recall.
 * ajmitch has intrepid-changes open
<StevenK> The bluez source package was published 2008-10-08
<ajmitch> and StevenK is quicker
<Hobbsee> which would be...shortly after beta.
<StevenK> And I used LP itself
<ScottK> You must have the secret Canonical high speed version.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so, seeing as the mail did have a planned-for-upload deadline (being shortly after beta), i think that persia's right.
 * ajmitch heads off for a bit
<Hobbsee> there was no reply from a member of the kubuntu team, apparently no one tested it, and no one noticed it broke for a while.
<Hobbsee> of course, it probably *would* have held gnome back, if there had actually been a kubuntu person who tested it, and replied that it didn't work.
<Hobbsee> so...
<StevenK> Let me pick up the mantle. "Rah, rah, no spec, unplanned, Kubuntu gets it again, rah, rah". Is that about it?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The bugs were filed within 24 hours of the upgrade
<Hobbsee> ScottK: after it was uploaded ot the main archive?
<ScottK> Yes
<Hobbsee> so, good, people did test it from there.
<ScottK> So "no one noticed it broke for a while" was the same day.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that related to the "no one tested it" part from the ppa
<ScottK> Right.  Well if the PPA delivered secure packages then I wouldn't have needed to find the time to build it as well as test it.
<ScottK> That's, at least in my case, a large part of why it didn't get done.
<Hobbsee> you're not the only kubuntu person.  If you could'nt do it, why not email the list / throw it up in #Kubuntu-devel, etc, saying "someone needs to test this before beta, who's going to do it?" or something.
<ScottK> Hobbsee:
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That was done.
<ScottK> This has been a busy release for Kubuntu and we just didn't have time.
<Hobbsee> so it just wasn't followed through quickly enough?
<ScottK> Yes.
<persia> Even just reporting that people were busy and that more time was required would probably have delayed the upload.
<Hobbsee> persia: that's waht I would have thought.  Silence is usually regarded as assent.
<ScottK> persia: I doubt it.  The response to complaints has been pretty negative.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mailing list, or it didn't happen.  Not everyone reads irc, all the time.
<persia> ScottK, The difference is that it would have been proactive rather than reactive.  No plan has been offered for a solution, just complaints.
<Hobbsee> (which is what part of my session at UDS will include, incidently)
<persia> Had it been *before* the upload, when invited, it's an easy thing to not upload for a few days.
<persia> Since most of the people involved in the transition were slytherin, crevette, superm1, StevenK, and myself, it's not like there was a huge push from somewhere overriding all opposition.
<ScottK> Well it's been one thing after another.
<persia> Like I said before, I have sympathy for the social issue.  I have no sympathy for something being broken because nobody either looked at it, or said they needed more time to look at it.
<ScottK> This was the last.
<persia> Understood.  I don't know the specifics of the others.  They may not have involved the same requests for feedback,.
 * Hobbsee thought the translation borkage was the last :P
<ScottK> The wiki got upgraded (now fixed) to only work with Firefox (which is not installed by default in Kubuntu)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: True.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which is surely a concern you'll need to take up with canonical IS?
<Hobbsee> who are different people to this discussion?
<persia> Hobbsee, The bluetooth one was the one that broke patience.  Translations are just more annoyance.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I tend to catagorize that under 'dangers of using proprietary systems for FOSS development"
<ScottK> persia: Not really.  There's been some discussion of there not being a Kubuntu release if it's not fixed.
<ScottK> asac broke KNetworkManager.
<Hobbsee> persia: you clearly didn't see the discussions over the weekend, but yes
<ScottK> So there's been a reasonably steady stream of lack of consideration.
<persia> Hobbsee, I saw some stuff, but nothing as extreme as with bluetooth.  I think the anger is continued, rather than erupting again.
<StevenK> So, three or four seperate issues is a "reasonably steady stream of lack of consideration" ?
<ScottK> StevenK: It's been roughly one major issue a month for the last three or four.
<StevenK> That doesn't strike me as a reasonably steady stream, that strikes me as mountains out of molehills
<ScottK> StevenK: How many times did it go the other way in that time?
<StevenK> Tit for tat doesn't seem like a good response
<ScottK> StevenK: I agree.  That's not my point.  My point is that one DE or the focus on one DE is breaking another one and it's all one way.
<csilk> is Tree MendUs a bot or something, most of his 700 + bug reports have been package requests!
<Hobbsee> csilk: probably a bot or a clueless user.
<csilk> It's pretty spammy when you think about it
<persia> especially because some of them are dupes.
<Hobbsee> csilk: it is.  But clueless users seem notto be encouraged to think.
<StevenK> ScottK: But the intent isn't malice, it's forgetfulness or in bluez's case, lack of testing
<ScottK> StevenK: I agree.  It's not malice.  I think it's lack of consideration.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what you're actually complaining about, and apparently proposing, is that whoever uploads a new core package (core being 'effects multiple DE's'), should test on all possible DE's themselves, because the individual DE's apparently can't be trusted to test provided packages on their own DE, in the given time.  That's simply not scalable (what if there were 10?  20?)
<StevenK> ScottK: I disagree in the bluez case -- we busted our gut getting a transistion plan worked out, and no one from Kubuntu said "Boo" until after we uploaded
<csilk> Hobbsee, a large amount of his requests have been marked as incomplete, he likes asking for backports of software that isnt packaged yet -_-
<persia> And we asked for someone to give feedback.  And people from *every* other flavour tested.
<Hobbsee> csilk: my sympathies.  Personally, I think calling up and yelling at him on the phone may be a good solution.  But i don't know of anything "official" you can do about it - even though i think it's not a good idea.
<Hobbsee> csilk: unfortunately, strangling is still against the CoC ;)
<StevenK> ScottK: So I don't think we can told it's our "lack of consideration"
<StevenK> s/can/can be/
<ScottK> The only reason there was even a request was because I suggested it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: I do think, on this issue, that people should have to present their package in a PPA, so that all DE's can test, and are sure that they're testing the same thing.  In this case, they've done it.  In the network manager case, i'm not sure they did.
<ScottK> StevenK: I'd probably buy that if it was the only case recently.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Modulo PPAs being suitable from a security perspective, sure.
<persia> ScottK, Why assume that those who worked on bluetooth have any relation to anything else?
<StevenK> ScottK: A completly different situation, and different group of people, and you're going to tar us with the same brush?
<StevenK> ScottK: I think you need to put the torch and pitchfork down
<persia> ScottK, If you're saying there is a social issue that flavours should work more closely together, I can support you.  If you are saying that kubuntu is somehow special, and everyone hates it, including me, I have to disagree.
<ScottK> Perhaps.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: but what you're proposing is either a) blocking the entire distro, because one DE (out of however many) didn't respond, or b) the person who wants to push the change has to test every single DE,some of which may be on specific hardware.  I count both of these as unfeasible.  Do you have a feasible solution?
<ScottK> I will say that post-upload, superm1 has been bending over backwards to help out and that's much appreciated.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: (this is in the general case, without listing specific DEs.  Maybe -studio will want to do some large change, and have to do something like this, for everywhere else, as well)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I think that post FF, it is up to the person proposing the change to fully test it.
<ScottK> I do not think that's unreasonable.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and in 5 years, if we have 20 DEs, is that still reasonable?
<ScottK> Pre-FF, it's different.
<Hobbsee> (And  how many remixes?)
<persia> remixes don't count.
<Hobbsee> persia: was thinking of the ones who work closely - or does -studio and such not count as a remix?
<ScottK> If it's 20 DEs then planning is REALLY important and you REALLY need to get all that stuff done before FF.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  They aren't remixes.
<persia> I think that the flavours have an inherent responsibility to keep track of what is happening throughout the distro, and make sure they are involved in any decision that affect them.
<StevenK> persia: +1
 * Hobbsee agrees with persia, but notes it goes the other way too (people must provide testing packages, must notify the various areas about the existance of them, what they effect, and when they're planned for upload)
<ScottK> I don't think "I can break you as bad as I want as long as I gave you a little warning" is a good policy.
<persia> Hobbsee, Official flavours are (alphabetically) Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu MID, Ubuntu Mobile, Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu Studio, and Xubuntu.
<Hobbsee> persia: right.  so tha'ts 9 now, not 20.
<ScottK> persia: I thought Edbuntu wasn't a separate flavor anymore?
<persia> ScottK, I think it's great policy, as long as we encourage cooperation.  I trust other developers not to break my stuff too badly, and to help when something goes wrong.  Most of the time that works.
<Hobbsee> So even in the current case, how feasible is it for someone to actually go and test 9 completely different DE's, for their packages, and pick up any corner cases that come about?
<persia> ScottK, It is.  I don't think Canonical supports it directly, but there's a number of people keeping it alive.
<StevenK> ScottK: So, in a recent case that happened to -mid. doko uploaded a new OpenJDK that removed icedtea-gcjwebplugin, and replaced with a new package. This made ubuntu-mid uninstallable due to the package not existing. Did I grab my torch and pitchfork and go after doko for no notice? No, I fixed the seed, and moved on. It happens, deal with it.
<persia> Hobbsee, In practice, there are only 5 DEs.
<ScottK> I thought it was a specialized metapackage for the Gnome and KDE varieties and not a separate image.
<Hobbsee> persia: sure, but there are specific packages that can change how things owrk, etc.  ie, if different defaults are used, bugs may be exposed that otherwise wouldn't be, etc.
<persia> ScottK, Last I heard, there were still discussions about whether images would be created.
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.  For small things like that, certainly.
<ScottK> persia: OK.
<persia> Hobbsee, Certainly.  Some of that is exceedingly annoying, but we work around it.  Unfortunately, no gstreamer-based app works well for Studio, although it uses GNOME as a DE, in part because of one of those issues.
<Hobbsee> persia: ouch.
<persia> ScottK, If you want a real answer, I think you need to talk to stgraber or LaserJock
<Hobbsee> persia: do they run around crying 'black headed step child'?
<ScottK> persia: Right.
<persia> Hobbsee, Yeah.  I think we can fix it for 9.04, but it started with 7.10.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: There was more than a little screaming about the kernel just to .27
<persia> Hobbsee, No, we suffer.  I could tell you stories about the kernel if you like ...
<ScottK> just/jump
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, i saw them...
<persia> Yeah.  The kernel was enough to push Studio nearly to the edge, but I think it's nearly solved.
<persia> Mind you, the solution was to work closely with upstream, and test aggressively within the dev team, rather than to continue to complain.
<ScottK> Yes, well there isn't a lot I can do to help fix bluetooth.
<StevenK> Oh, I know. Let's go back to BlueZ 3
<persia> ScottK, Not a lot I could do to fix the kernel either.  Mostly I tested dev snapshots, and asked for more testers, and pushed the FFe, and tried to help work with upstream.
<ScottK> I guess it's all in my head and Jono is right. http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1113
<ScottK> There's only two people who work on Gnome and one on KDE and so there's no difference at all really in how Kubuntu gets treated and it's all in my head.
<Hobbsee> imo, kubuntu needs to pull their weight, in testing things, or run the risks of not doing so.
<Hobbsee> and here, they didn't pull their weight, and they got bitten for it.
<StevenK> But it's our fault for not installing Kubuntu
<ScottK> Well when I upload clamav I don't test just the KDE front end.
<ScottK> I guess I should just save some effort since I really just need to write a mail.
<Hobbsee> you could, if you chose.
<persia> ScottK, I don't think jono is entirely right : both Ubuntu Desktop and Kubuntu have many more developers than he lists.
<Hobbsee> hope you have been testing it on all 5 DEs, too.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I hear I'm being ridiculous to expect others to do similarly.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I test all the GUIs we have packages.
<ScottK> packages/packaged.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's certainly your choice to do so, if you've got the time.  However, the option is, for those of us who don't have the time (or bandwidth), is todo what was donein the bluez case.
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> ScottK, You're not being ridiculous, it's that you're beating a dead horse.  There is a social issue.  It should be fixed.  Testing is good.  Requiring everyone to test every change in every environment is a bit much.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: FYI, some of us *can't* test the way you do, due to stuff like bandwidth limitations.
<ScottK> persia: What I'm hearing is that it's all Kubuntu's fault and there is no issue.
<Hobbsee> (but, great on you for doing it the way you are!)
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then perhaps you need to reread.
<Hobbsee> (a lot of it's kubuntu's fault.  not all of it).
<Hobbsee> OTOH, is there a lot of point pointing out faults, if it doesn't get changed?
<persia> ScottK, At least that's not what I'm trying to say, so if you see that, something is wrong.  I don't have sympathy for not responding to a request for testing.  I do have sympathy for things breaking.  If you don't want to test other front-ends, and you find a way that helps them work, that's fine.  Deciding not to test because someone else didn't test is exactly the wrong behaviour pattern.
<persia> For bluetooth, I tested it in two operating environments for three flavours.  I also purchased some new devices so I could better test some features.  Should I not have done that?  When doing that, should I be berated that I didn't test?  I didn't test everything because I was under the impression that others were testing other things.
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<ScottK> OTOH, I've gotten more done tonight on T&S than I have in a while.
<StevenK> I don't think flaming is part of T&S
<Hobbsee> T&S?
<persia> StevenK, It's new for lenny
<ScottK> StevenK: No, it's not a formal requirement.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Tasks and Skills for Debian NM.
 * StevenK needn't point ScottK at one of his e-mail addresses
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i doubt they'll be much better.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not better, just different.  Not planning on going anywhere, but the frustration is motivational.
<dholbach> highvoltage: I uploaded the last video to videos.ubuntu.com/motuvideos now
 * ajmitch needs faster computer - upgrading to intrepid is taking an age
<csilk> dholbach,  I notice on your video you don't really mention .desktop files, any reason for this?
<dholbach> csilk: there are a lot of things I don't mention - talking specifically about .desktop files: I believe they are an upstream thing and should be modified and extended there :)
<csilk> dholbach,  yeah I'd agree with you when you say they are/should be an upstream thing, but sometimes we get packages requests where the upstream has no package and they aren't willing to have anything to do with packaging
<dholbach> these videos try to give an introduction, an overview
<dholbach> for example I'm not talking about Makefiles a lot, although they are important for packages and package building as well
<ajmitch> .desktop files aren't really packaging related in a sense, they're just general UI integration
<csilk> Yeah I understand it's not possible to talk about everything
<csilk> I'm really having difficulty finding any useful information onthe creaation and manahement of .desktop files at the moment that's why I ask
<dholbach> if somebody wants to do a video about .desktop files (I'm not sure I know a lot about them), that'd be great
<dholbach> but I'd hope whoever did this video would place a lot of importance on working with upstream for those .desktop files
<dholbach> because only if they are upstream, we get proper translations, etc
<dholbach> (and don't patch Ubuntu packages so much with .desktop changes)
<csilk> If we are presented with a package request and the upstream only provides source it is the packager that is supposed to sort the desktop file isn't it?
<dholbach> if there's no .desktop file, yeah that'd be nice - but also nice to directly forward it to upstream, so they can add translations and integration into the build system
<csilk> Ok, I've just packaged an application that came as source, so should I forward this to upstream then?
<dholbach> I think it'd be great to just write a quick mail saying: here's a .desktop file I wrote for your application, hope you include it :)
<dholbach> or use their bug tracker or whatever else is available
<csilk> This is where it get's difficult for first time contributors, procedures not being documentated
<dholbach> especially if you're going to help maintaining the package in Ubuntu, upstream is going to be happy if you introduce yourself and say "oh by the way, here's a quick patch I wrote" :)
<csilk> *documented
<dholbach> I agree... it's a bit like detective work because a lot of bug trackers are different, web sites work differently and some upstreams have different expectations than others, but as long as you have people you can talk to, it's really not that bad
<csilk> Yeah I guess
<csilk> Well. this package is pretty much done, I'm just not sure how to handle desktops files, menu icons and man pages
<csilk> and making them all work accross kde, xfce and gnome
<dholbach> just take a look at the packaging of similar packages
<csilk> will do
<dholbach> rock and roll
<highvoltage> dholbach: thank you very much!
<dholbach> highvoltage: anytime
<csilk> is this a virtual package http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libgtkglext1 ?
<csilk> anyone around?
<Burgundavia> csilk: yep
<csilk> is this a virtual package http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libgtkglext1 ?
<csilk> because pbuilder keeps telling me it is
<csilk> and I can't find any reference to the fatc it's virtual
<csilk> *faact
<Burgundavia> I have no idea, sorry
<csilk> No worries, I'm about to call it a day. I spent the whole day trying to get this package working with no luck, i'll have to leave it till next week
<emgent> morning people
<csilk> meh
<csilk> ember, you ever use pbuilder?
<csilk> emgent, ^
<soren> csilk: No, it's not a virtual package.
<soren> csilk: Virtual packages are packages that don't actually exist, but are "provided" by other packages.
<soren> csilk: Like for instance mail-transport-agent. Each of the MTA's we have in the archive have a "Provides: mail-transport-agent" header.
<csilk> That package is listed as a dependency required for comilation though
<csilk> *compilation
<soren> That way, any package that simply needs an MTA can just depend on "mail-transport-agent", and any of the MTA's will fulfill this dependency.
<csilk> so how do i include libgtkglext1 then>
<csilk> ?
<soren> "include"?
<csilk> sorry, i've been up about 24 hors now
<csilk> *hours
<csilk> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libgtk2.0-0, libgtkglext1
<soren> That looks fine to me. What's the error you're getting?
<csilk> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libgtkglext1 which is a virtual package.
<soren> csilk: Building for intrepid?
<soren> csilk: or hardy?
<csilk> on hardy for intrepid
<soren> That sounds quite odd.
<soren> I think I'd do a "pbuilder update" and see if that helps anything. libgtkglext1 isn't virtual.
<csilk> My point exactly
<csilk> and pbuilder can't be upgraded anymore
<Koon> looks like the usual "pbuilder does not have universe" error, though libgtkglext1 should be in main :)
<Koon> csilk: you should recreate the pbuilder
<Koon> ciskif it cannot be updated anymre it's seriously broken anyway
<csilk> If I've been working all day with a "broken" pbuilder then I've just wasted a whole day
<soren> Koon: re main/universe: Yep, that's why I asked about hardy/intrepid. It moved to main this release cycle.
<soren> csilk: What do you mean it can't be upgraded anymore?
<csilk> It's already at the latest version
<Koon> ah, that's not what I understood :)
<Koon> csilk: could you pastebin the full pbuilder output ?
<soren> csilk: That's not what I meant.
<soren> csilk: Hang on, let me find the command line..
<dholbach> hi soren
<soren> csilk: pbuilder --update
<soren> dholbach: Hi, dholbach!
 * soren hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs soren back
<csilk> soren,  0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<soren> csilk: That's ok. The error might have been in the package lists.
<soren> csilk: Try te build again.
<csilk> same issue
<csilk> I really don't understand, this was working 2 days ago
<wgrant> .... did somebody really start a serious poll on ubuntuforums.org to remove NM0.7!?
<wgrant> Some people...
<soren> csilk: Can I see the sources.list from that pbuilder?
<csilk> soren,  i just purged pbuilder I'm re-installing and re-configuring
<huats> morning everyone
<csilk> soren,  problem solved, not too sure what the problem was in the first place but I purged, installed and re-configured the sources list with hardy backports and all is well
<soren> csilk: Hardy backports? For an intrepid pbuilder?
<csilk> sorry, typo, i meant intrepid repo
<soren> Ok.
<csilk> ok done, that's another package out of the way, no point in me going to bed now, I have a algorithms uni lecture in 40 mins -_-
<csilk> *an
<didrocks> morning
<csilk> bed time. good night/morning ;)
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> ajmitch: hey :) how's life? :)
<pochu> DktrKranz: hi, pitti just accepted my upload for bug 208068, could you have a look at it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 208068 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 "plays midi, but complains about missing codec afterwards" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208068
<DktrKranz> pochu: need the ACK?
<pochu> DktrKranz: yeah
<pochu> if it looks reasonably to you ;)
<DktrKranz> pochu: mind subscribing me to it? I lack a browser (yes, it's strange, but that is!)
<pochu> DktrKranz: done. I can mail you the debdiff if you want
<DktrKranz> pochu: not needed, it should be available on LP
<DktrKranz> or easily grabbed from sources
<persia> pochu, Does that finally sort the issue, or do we need to revisit for jaunty?
<pochu> persia: it's already fixed in Intrepid
<pochu> persia: that's a backported fix for Hardy
<persia> pochu, right.  From the bug traffic, I wasn't sure if this was a workaround or a final solution.  If it's final, I'll not worry about it when updating wildmidi for squeeze.
<Woody86> g'morning everyone:)
<highvoltage> morning Woody86
<highvoltage> where's Sarge86 and Etch86 today?
<AnAnt_> how about Sid86 ?
<highvoltage> AnAnt_: I think the others are chasing him
<highvoltage> It would be nice if there were motu videos that covered merges for when Jaunty opens.
<AnAnt_> I find IRC sessions to be useful, I gained benefit from dkms one
<Woody86> So are there any requirements or competencies expected from someone to be able to join and help out the MOTU?
<AnAnt_> superm1: sl-modem with DKMS support can be found at: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/non-free/s/sl-modem/sl-modem_2.9.11~20080817-2.dsc , I hope you give me feedback
<persia> Woody86, To get started, you mostly just have to understand the concept of a patch.  You can learn everything else along the way.
<persia> AnAnt_, Is it smart enough that a single source builds both modass and dkms support?
<Woody86> persia: just knowing that it's a package to fix a bug? or do I need to know more?
<AnAnt_> persia: meaning ?
<AnAnt_> persia: I don't understand what you mean by smart enough ?
<Woody86> I really have no experience with programming or anything, but I'd like to help as much as i can :)
<persia> AnAnt_, That an unmodified source package would build a modass-compatible binary for Debian and a DKMS-compatible binary for Ubuntu.
<persia> Woody86, The goal is to identify issues with the packages, find or generate fixes, apply them, get them to Debian or to upstream if they apply there, and get them into Ubuntu.
<AnAnt_> persia: it supports both module-assistant & DKMS in both ubuntu & debian
<persia> Each bug has a different procedure to do this, although there are many commonalities.
<AnAnt_> persia: oh, you reminded me to add some check
<persia> AnAnt_, Perfect :)
<persia> Woody86, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing has some hints to get started.
<AnAnt_> persia: I mean, if the system got dkms, then dkms will work, else, user has to manually run the module-assistant command
<Woody86> persia: thanks, I'll check it out :)
<AnAnt_> persia: DKMS support in sl-modem fixed (hopefully), you can have a look at it
<persia> AnAnt_, I certainly will.
<AnAnt_> persia: simply I run the dkms commands inside an if [ -x /usr/sbin/dkms ] block
<AnAnt_> persia: and dkms is in Recommends
<persia> AnAnt_, That's a safe plan.  That is at package install time, not build time, right?
<AnAnt_> persia: yeah, install tiime
<AnAnt_> I think dkms should be in Suggests
<persia> Needs to be Recommends in Ubuntu to encourage the installation.
<AnAnt_> persia: in case of Debian, if it is in Recommends while dkms is not in Debian yet, will that be a problem ?
<persia> AnAnt_, Dunno.  It's not a policy violation, but it might be annoying.  Check with your sponsor.
<AnAnt_> ok
<james_w> there was a release goal to remove all unmet recommends
<james_w> so you may be asked to remove it until it is in
<persia> james_w, Do you know if that is planned to become policy then?
<james_w> I'm not sure
<persia> It would be a sensible policy.
<persia> AnAnt_, I don't suppose you could find another way to make your package Depend on DKMS only in Ubuntu?
<AnAnt_> well, since someone is working on dkms package in Debian, I don't think it's worth the effort to find out another way
<AnAnt_> hopefully
<persia> That makes sense :)
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Woody86> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi Woody86
<\sh> ScottK: oh wow...you blog :)
<nxvl> \o/
<emgent> heya
<laga> ScottK: do you think you could change your RSS feed to include the complete text?
<ScottK> laga: Should I?  It's always seemed to me that those incredibly long posts on planet are a bit annoying.
<ScottK> Personally I like shorter ones that I can click to see the rest.
<ScottK> I'll consider it.
<emgent> welcome to planet ScottK :)
<StevenK> I prefer the long posts, I'll just scroll past entries I want to visually grep out
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.  Good point.
 * ScottK wonders it laga just didn't like the cliffhanger transition.
<\sh> I think we should nominate one song of Jonos new record...and put it on planet.ubuntu.com ,-) so people can hear what they can expect when they read ,-)
<emgent> hhehehe
<StevenK> "Rumors to the contrary, I don't generally bite."
<StevenK> Hah!
<sebner> what about putting on of jono's songs in the ubuntu example content ^^
<\sh> function foo { mkfifo $bla ; ssh -f $host $command > $bla } foo <- this doesn't work somehow in bash...yay
<StevenK> We probably don't have the CD space
<StevenK> \sh: Which bit?
<\sh> StevenK: the ssh bit...
<StevenK> It doesn't call ssh?
<sebner> StevenK: well, removing the other (non-jono) stuff then ^^
<ScottK> StevenK: Just sample one second every twenty and see if anyone can tell the difference.
<\sh> StevenK: after accessing the fifo from the outside ssh runs into the background...and that's documented behaviour
<StevenK> \sh: Does bash -x shed ligh?
<StevenK> s/ligh/light/
<StevenK> ScottK: As a heavy metal fan, *yes*
<\sh> StevenK: yes..it's stays at "ssh -f" and after a tail -f $bla it works as expected, but not redirecting the output to the fifo
<\sh> StevenK: I'm writing a different example script and put it for resolution on the blog...let lazyweb deal with it ,->
<sebner> ScottK: thx for milestoning ssmtp, though I uploaded the fixed debdiff now and pinged nxvl ^^
<StevenK> Oh, you need to tail the fifo?
<StevenK> \sh: Suggest you also describe the problem you're trying to solve since people might go "Uhh, bad idea"
<\sh> StevenK: well, yes and no...dialog --tailbox should tail the fifo inside a script
<\sh> StevenK: and as dialog --tailbox needs a file to tail, the easy solution was "ssh -f ... > fifo"
<\sh> and move ssh into the background and kill it later when it's not needed anymore...stay tuned for the article...so it becomes more clear
<StevenK> It's getting close to 1am. I doubt it will become clear until after I've slept
<laga> ScottK: i read the planet in my RSS reader
<ScottK> laga: I understand.  I do the same.  I appreciate the feedback and will probably change it.
<\sh> StevenK: I'll write it this evening (my time) because right now I have a *censored* windows machine again to deploy.-..
<StevenK> If it's *censored*, why would you deploy it :-P
<\sh> StevenK: because recordmydesktop doesn't work for us ;)
<slytherin> persia: forgot to log bug previously, did it just now. bug #286973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286973 in libjdom-java "Please remove the package from archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286973
<persia> slytherin, OK.  libdom0-java seems already gone :)
<slytherin> persia: how come? I was under impression there are still some rdepends on that.
<slytherin> persia: may be they were fixed in recent uploads doko did.
<slytherin> persia: well, rmadison still says it is there.
<persia> slytherin, Not for me, and neither does it show in my intrepid apt-cache.
<doko> no, didn't do any jdom related uploads
<slytherin> persia: I will check at hoem later
<ScottK> persia: Did you test clamtk with our clamav (it's a newer version than Debian has)?  I wouldn't expect problems based on the changes in the new clamav and clamtk's design, but ...
<persia> ScottK, Yep, although only for Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Mobile.
<ScottK> That should be sufficient.
<persia> ScottK, Also, I don't seem to have any viruses, so I couldn't test the discovery.
<ScottK> persia: sudo apt-get install clamav-testfiles
<ScottK> But if it scans it should be fine.
<persia> ScottK, Thanks for the hint.  I'll test with that and make sure that works too.
<persia> (although after the TB meeting)
<slytherin> does anyone know if network manager supports setting up networking over firewire? I tried yesterday but couldn't make it work so I ended up giving static IP on both machines.
<directhex> slytherin, i've never seen my firewire ports listed as devices, now that you mention it
<sebner> directhex: I need your magic power ~o~
<slytherin> directhex: that is because eth1394 module is blacklisted. Remove it from /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
 * directhex hides under a desk
<slytherin> directhex: Of course I am not sure if network manager will show them even after that.
<sebner> directhex: hrhr, http://tinyurl.com/5dqkqj
<directhex> sebner, :/
<directhex> "./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr "
<directhex> *stabstab*
<sebner> directhex: Read the 2nd comment
<laga> what is 10.04?
<directhex> laga, part  of the standard of advice you get from people who use prefix=/usr :)
<sebner> laga: I suppose a typo
<laga> directhex: rotfl
<sebner> directhex: READ the 2ND comment ;D
<directhex> sebner, i did. i think he means only about his typo, not the system-killer advice
<sebner> directhex: I mean the hint to the mono2 packages (which are totally b0rken meebey told me ;))
<directhex> sebner, they are.
<sebner> directhex: I want you to add a comment ;D
<directhex> sebner, this is the thing: if packaging things were so trivial, what makes people think those closer to the source wouldn't have done it already?
<sebner> directhex: well, you know this .exe syndrom
<directhex> sebner, cba registering for a forum i don't want to use. you can reply on my behalf, and point out that nobody in the ubuntu mono packaging team will help them one bit when they break their systems on the broken compile or broken packages
<sebner> directhex: hehe, Sry I thought your are registered :\
<directhex> sebner, i have access to mono-project.com, but that forum is nabble.com
<sebner> directhex: I understand. Just thought so because nabble *is* the official mono forum?!
<ScottK> persia: RE: clamtk - I hope that service was quick enough.
<directhex> sebner, it's a third party forum hosting site. it's just embedded via iframes
<sebner> directhex: hehe, so what's the official one?
<directhex> sebner, well, it's official, but it doesn't share credentials. hence i'd need to sign up to that forum, and i don't really want to
<persia> ScottK, Indeed :)  Before I had a chance to look at it a second time.
<sebner> directhex: kk, so we just teach the b0rken users how bad they were? :)
<directhex> sebner, yeah. if they don't like my xsp packages, then stuff 'em
<sebner> ^^
<RainCT> (ScottK: Hey, could you change your feeds to include the full text, please?)
<ScottK> RainCT: I will.  You aren't the first to ask.
<ScottK> laga and RainCT: Blog is fixed now.
<RainCT> ScottK: thanks
 * ScottK gives vorian a smack.
<ScottK> vorian: Please give meaningful debian/changelog entries.
<ScottK> "A few bug fixes' doesnt' qualify.
 * sebner winks ScottK just for fun :)
<ScottK> Also no need to mention changing the maintainer.
<ScottK> sebner doesn't actually have to look at every upload right now and answer ubuntu-release questions about it.
 * cody-somerville decides to have all his changelogs say "Made some changes" from now on :P
 * sebner decides to say sorry to ScottK and is quiet until release now :\
<ScottK> DktrKranz, sistpoty|work, TheMuso, norsetto (if you were here): Someone of us really ought to go through pending FFe and see that all are resolved either for or against.
 * ScottK will not have time for a while.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I'll have a look at them later this evening.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Great.
<DktrKranz> how can we deal with "pending" ones?
<ScottK> sebner: As penance, go update amule and do the FFe.
<DktrKranz> there are some set to incomplete since ages, now
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Use your judgement about saying 'too late' and marking invalid.
<DktrKranz> agreed
<ScottK> By about Friday the FFe list should all be either fix released or invalid.
 * sistpoty|work will eventually take a look at the two gaming related packages (sldmame, hedgewars), but not too sure if I'll come around tonight
<sebner> ScottK: if you ACK the FFe I'm fine with it
<DktrKranz> eventually, some bugs can be unsubscribed from motu-release
<ScottK> sebner: I'll ack it.
<DktrKranz> e.g. some needs-packaging
<sebner> ScottK: ok, doing it. (today or tomorrow)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Those you can unsubcribe now.
<ScottK> sebner: Great.
<sebner> welcome
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: needs-packaging ones?
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work: IIRC there were some open, but I could be wrong
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: at least none that I'm aware of right now, but I too could be wrong ;)
<sistpoty|work> ah, indeed, e.g. bug #273109
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273109 in ubuntu "Feature freeze exception for webkam" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273109
<DktrKranz> exactly
 * DktrKranz heads home, back in an hour
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<DktrKranz> soren, re bug 277272, did you file removal request, or do you plan to do it soon?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277272 in ubuntu-vm-builder "[FFe] Let vm-builder replace ubuntu-vm-builder" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277272
<ethana2> The 8.10 rc is going to include GNOME 2.24.1, right?
<slytherin> ethana2: I guess 2.24.1 is already in. Correct me if I am wrong
<ethana2> http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyfive
<ethana2> 2.24 is in of course, but 2.24.1 isn't 'out' 'till tomorrow
<sebner> ethana2: they are already starting to ship the tarballs
<ethana2> oh, ok
<ethana2> how do tarballs differ from releases?
<sebner> ethana2: the date
<sebner> ^^
<ethana2> that's it?
<ethana2> interesting
<sebner> ethana2: some days before release the want to have the new tarballs from every project. so ubuntu can ship them before official release
<ethana2> cool.
<ethana2> i look forward to torrenting and burning the release candidate...
<ethana2> i administrate..   5 machines i think
<ethana2> going to install 8.10 on two of them and then give them to family
<sebner> ^^
<ethana2> ^^?
<DktrKranz> slytherin, (and persia when you catch up): any progress on bug 268912 and bug 269070 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268912 in libjgroups-java "[FFE] Please sync libjgroups-java 2.6.3.GA+dfsg1-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268912
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269070 in libproxool-java "[FFE] Please sync libproxool-java 0.9.1-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269070
<sebner> ethana2: nvm ;)
<DktrKranz> huhu sebner
<sebner> DktrKranz: HUHU
<ethana2> ^.^
<slytherin> DktrKranz: It is too late for intrepid already. Also jboss packages are not completely built. Those bugs can be deferred.
<DktrKranz> slytherin, I'll mark bugs as wontfix for now then, thanks ;)
<DktrKranz> gilir, re bug 250949, could you elaborate on GNOME 2.24 integration?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250949 in cairo-dock "New upstream release of cairo-dock" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250949
<slytherin> DktrKranz: Sure. Sorry for delay from my side. Have been busy with office work lately.
<DktrKranz> slytherin, no problem at all, thanks for responding quickly here ;(
<DktrKranz> erm... ";)"
<DktrKranz> and now we have only four bugs to manage with! \o/
<gilir> DktrKranz: it only concern applets, which is not in the package, I will add a note on the bug
<kiko> hey, who can delete community wikipages?
<kiko> I can't so I copied one and would like the existing page nuked
<kiko> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NokiaEvolutionBluetoothSyncing
<DktrKranz> gilir, thanks for the clarification
<superm1> kiko, i think you are supposed to add a redirect in the old page to bring you to the new one
<kiko> superm1, I guess I can do that too. thanks.
<sebner> james_w: around? srry, I missed twiki. So the best thing for now is just to grop mini-httpd? bug #261962
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261962 in twiki "Merge twiki 4.1.2-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261962
<james_w> sebner: I'm not sure
<sebner> james_w: alternates are?
<james_w> making it work with mini-httpd the way it used to?
<sebner> james_w: what is the "better" solution, thinking of the release in the some days
<james_w> I'm not sure
<sebner> james_w: then we have to find one who can help us ;)
<james_w> what do you think is better?
<sebner> james_w: I'm fine with both solutions but your rationale for dropping mini-httpd sounds reasonable
<james_w> it's a kick in the teeth for anyone that wants to use mini-httpd though
<james_w> but considering they have to either install apache as well, or hack something to avoid it, they can probably take it
<sebner> james_w: that's the question now. to be honest /me didn't know that mini-httpd exists. I just know apache ^^
 * NCommander inhales deeply
<cody-somerville> NCommander, no
 * RainCT inhales slowly
<NCommander> cody-somerville, WTF?
<cody-somerville> NCommander, Exactly.
 * NCommander pulls out his sword and cuts your computer in half cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> Well, if you're not going to play nice then I'm taking my toys and going home!
<RainCT> NCommander: you are in the same room? o.O
<NCommander> RainCT, cody and I are split personalities of each other
<RainCT> NCommander: d'oh, why haven't I thought of this before?!
<RainCT> this explains it all!
<NCommander> RainCT, because I can't remember my/our GPG password so each personality needs to apply for MOTUship seperately
<ajmitch> hello crazy people
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<RainCT> ajmitch!! :P
<RainCT> (crazy people scream, right? ^^)
 * ajmitch upgraded to intrepid last night, and it actually mostly went ok
<ajmitch> all I lost was X for a short time as it couldn't handle the config file
<RainCT> ajmitch: and your PC doesn't freeze if you start GNOME? :P
<ajmitch> not the last time that I saw
<RainCT> bah, why does all the evil happen to me *g*
<ajmitch> though I'm a little worried about not handling a fairly basic xorg.conf
<RainCT> man, people asking for "bleeding edge repositories" on brainstorm are annoying :P
<NCommander> well, that's what grumpy groundhog was susposed to be
<NCommander> But that project seems to have crashed and burned
<slytherin> NCommander: or rather cut and sliced into pieces due to bleeding edge. :-P
<ajmitch> NCommander: finally applying, I see
<NCommander> Yeup
<NCommander> I was going to wait for DIF jaunty
<NCommander> But I was convinced to do it earlier
<ajmitch> it helps to get upload rights sooner
<NCommander> so eight days until I get REJECTed
<NCommander> Much faster than Debian NM :-)
 * NCommander runs
<ajmitch> yeah, right
<NCommander> ajmitch, going to say two cents worth about me?
<ajmitch> do I need to?
 * ajmitch hasn't looked at many of your uploads
<NCommander> ajmitch, no
 * NCommander doesn't require +1ing for work
 * NCommander has a horrible headache
<ajmitch> while I'm sure that they're all fine, I think that my input is not valuable
<RainCT> good night
<geser> ajmitch: sure it is, even if you don't want/can't comment on his technical skills you can comment on his community integration (or any other items you like or dislike)
<NCommander> hey geser
<NCommander> hey persia
<LaserJock> anybody from MOTU Release about?
<NCommander> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> NCommander: hi
<NCommander> I finally applied for MOTU
<LaserJock> nice
<csilk> anyone know what the -sa flag in debuild does, the manpage doesn't say
<NCommander> csilk, force the inclusion of the original source
<csilk> Ok thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-22
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> er
<porthose> csilk: look at man dpkg-buildpackage :)
<csilk> will do
<csilk> why does the latest packaged version of dh-make auto include a standards version of 3.7.3 then 2.8.0 is the current standard (according to lintian)?
<csilk> *when 3.8.0
<lfaraone> james_w: ping
<lfaraone> james_w: I'm getting an odd error when trying to build sugar on intrepid:
<lfaraone>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<lfaraone> debian/rules:15: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory
<lfaraone> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk'.  Stop.
<LaserJock> lfaraone: install quilt
<csilk> If I'm packaging an app I got through CVS, should I remove all cvs related files form the app's directory structure before I make a .orig.tar.gzip ?
<csilk> *.gz
<porthose> csilk: yes:)
<csilk> porthose, hi, time for another quick question?
<porthose> sure
<csilk> I'm packaging a new app. the app has a 'bug' which causes a compilation error udner the newer versions of GCC, upstream advise (in their install instructions) that users add 2 lines of code to the top of a C++ source file. If I do this in the package do I just note that in the changelog or is modifying the code a big no no?
<csilk> porthose, ^
<porthose> hmm not sure about that one
<csilk> Yeah, I'm not too sure how to proceed with this
<porthose> maybe someone with more experience could help out?
<csilk> hopefull
<csilk> y
<Awsoonn> are there any known plans to release a desktop CD for the ppc? or are they only going to be given an alternitive install disc with intrepid?
<csilk> is there a way to stop debuild from trying to sign a dsc file?
<TheMuso> Awsoonn: There are ports disks available for PowerPC, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports
<TheMuso> csilk: -uc -us
<csilk> thanks
<TheMuso> csilk: Welcome.
<csilk> TheMuso, would you have any idea about my previous questiona few posts up?
<Awsoonn> ahah! I was in the daily dir and not the daily-live, thank you for the calification
<Awsoonn> :)
<ScottK> csilk: You can patch it.  It's strongly preferred to do that with a patch system rather than just a direct modification.
<ScottK> For testing your package direct modification work fine.
<csilk> ScottK, any standard patching system commonly used that you would suggest?
<ScottK> Let me dig you up a link.
<ScottK> csilk: There are choices.  Up to you.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<csilk> Thanks
<csilk> bug patched
<csilk> brilliant
<csilk> now I just gotta get the menu icons working ;)
<NCommander> ScottK, so I'll be there for the entirity of UDS it seems
<ScottK> Congratulations.  It's a good experience.
<NCommander> I'm going to be there because a professor kicked me out of his class for BS reasons
<NCommander> Just confirms to me to leave on sabatical winter quarter
<Hobbsee> sweet
<TheMuso> NCommander: While that sounds good for UDS, thats not so good for your studies.
<NCommander> The problem was the professor took issue with me helping other students in lab
<NCommander> "You are a student, if someone else needs help, have them come to me"
<Hobbsee> wow...
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> Its not my first time taking this class
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> that's just retarded
<NCommander> (I was in a car wreck the day of the final and was unable to get credit for it)
<NCommander> ^the first time around
<NCommander> I had a B+ then
<Hobbsee> car accidents aren't acceptable reasons for delaying exams there?  ouch!
 * ajmitch was helping students in class one semester, the next year I was paid to help tutor in the lab 
<NCommander> Hobbsee, New York State finals are held very irregularly
<NCommander> and I didn't pass when I retook it six months later
<Hobbsee> oh, right
 * NCommander simply couldn't retain the skills without praticing them for that long
<NCommander> so I retook the class
<NCommander> Just to get this load of ****shit
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> I censored the wrong part
<ajmitch> heh
<TheMuso> hehe
<ScottK> Were these perishable skills censoring skillz?
 * NCommander hits ScottK with a lawn GNOME
<ScottK> Sorry.  It had to be said.
<ajmitch> no, it really didn't
<ajmitch> that's like leaping on the first available pun
<NCommander> ajmitch, he's from the navy, they don't know better ;-)
<LaserJock> TheMuso, ScottK: you guys on MOTU Release?
 * NCommander runs really fast
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hola
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> I feel like .... I dunno
<NCommander> Doing something sane
<NCommander> like watching TV
<txwikinger> wow.. all the dns server for my domain are down
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> ScottK: I'd like to upload a bug fix to desktop-multiplier
<txwikinger> ScottK: I got your message.. I will take care of it asap
<LaserJock> ScottK: it's technically a bug-fix new upstream release as its closed source
<LaserJock> pretty minor changes though from what I got from the author
<cody-somerville> Hey LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi cody
<ScottK> LaserJock: If it's bug fix you can just upload it.
<LaserJock> ScottK: ok, just wanted to run it by MOTU Release first, even if it's just a FYI
<ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  Thanks.  Sometimes we get queried by ubuntu-release, so it's helpful.
<ScottK> I've heard it said that Ubuntu moves more quickly than Debian because it's more IRC centered and Debian is more ML centered.
<ScottK> So last night we had a bit of a flamefest over bluetooth and its' over.
<NCommander> ScottK, sounds about right
<NCommander> hey persia
<ScottK> The Debian ML thread on non-free firmware in the kernel show's no sign of ending.
<ScottK> So I guess that's a case in point.
<StevenK> On -devel?
<ScottK> Yeah
<StevenK> Right. Glad I'm unsubscribed
<ScottK> I'm not particularly reading them anymore, but I still notice the subject when I hit delete.
<StevenK> I'm waiting for -private to have a large flamewar, it's overdue
<persia> ScottK, Note that Debian also has flamefests on IRC, and close coordination on IRC for some teams, but that's considered not to count.
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  I even participate in those sometimes.
 * NCommander is waiting for the one on d-devel to hit critical mass
<NCommander> Its not quite there yet
<ajmitch> it's at the threatening GRs stage
<LaserJock> is there such a thing in Debian?
<ScottK> The last time was someone complaining Ubuntu patches sucked and I volunteered to show them where my patches from Ubuntu sucked so badly they'd be reused without any credit or attribution.
<persia> Yes.  When a flamefest reaches critical mass, there is a GR.
<cody-somerville> GRs?
<ScottK> be reused/been reused
<StevenK> General Resolution
<StevenK> How the Debian project "solves problems"
<ScottK> StevenK: I thought the Debian process was spew hate until one side quits and leaves.
<ajmitch> good, looks like they're at the filing annoying bugs stage...
<ajmitch> bugs.debian.org/502959
<ScottK> That was a couple of days ago.
<StevenK> ScottK: That is the long term plan
<ScottK> I think GR drafts are coming soon.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ajmitch> I don't wade into flamefests too often
<persia> ScottK, GRs are used to force the side that won't quit to do so.
 * StevenK remembers this coming up when he worked with Herbert and he was still maintaining the kernel
 * ScottK notes that that's exactly why he suggested rough consensus for MOTU decisions rather than 51 percent.
<persia> ScottK, My only issue with formalising rough consensus was that it was just documentation of existing practice, yet the formalisation itself confused many people.
<ajmitch> and if badly run, 'rough consensus' can be browbeating enough people until objections are silenced
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Hopefully we can get it clearly written down in a way that won't do that.
<ScottK> ajmitch: True.
<persia> ScottK, Yep.
<persia> ajmitch, Indeed, but it's better to emphasise that we seek consensus than to just have everyone bow before the browbeater because they did so in the past.
<ScottK> I'm actually quite fond of the IETF idea of "Rough consensus and running code".  The IETF would work a lot better if they used it.
<ajmitch> persia: of course, browbeating must be done politely if at all possible :)
<ScottK> If you have to be mean, stay off logged channels.
<ScottK> I messed that one up once.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> did it return to bite you?
<ScottK> A little bit.
<ScottK> I got pretty direct CoC warnings from some senior people in the project.
<ScottK> They were right too.
 * ScottK does, however, note that the meaness was threating to do everything in my power to get a certain someone ejected from the project.
 * ScottK looks around and doesn't see that someone.
<ScottK> So it didn't bit too badly.
<ScottK> bit/bite
<persia> Well, it's also a time of day issue.  This channel is still in autojoin for that person.
<ScottK> Yes.  I checked before I mentioned it.
<ScottK> AFAIK they're still silenced on the channel in any case.
 * StevenK blinks.
 * ajmitch is not surprised
<persia> Yes.  I was hoping to be able to lift that soon, but some of the support building in Debian washed away during the Lenny freeze, so it maybe a while yet.
<persia> s/maybe/may be/
 * ScottK notes that he did file a good bug the other day.
<ajmitch> ScottK: the problem wasn't the few good ones, sadly
<persia> Yeah.  He's been getting a lot better, which is why the gag is starting to seem superfluous, but it requires certain criteria to be met before it can be lifted.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Agreed.
<ajmitch> even I can file a good bug, if the moon is in the right phase
<ScottK> persia: clamtk finds the clamav test files just fine, BTW.
<persia> Anyway, we've all spent enough bytes on this issue over the past 18 months.  More doesn't help.
<persia> ScottK, Yep.  I tested that last night, although after the sync due to excellent service on the part of the archive-admins.
<StevenK> persia: Are you sure? Debian seems to follow the reverse.
<persia> At this point, all the pending translations from the Japanese team are included, which is a good thing.
<persia> StevenK, One of the ways we aren't Debian is that we tend to accept when something is over, and only re-raise it when there are new changes that make it relevant.
<slangasek> one wonders if you meant to type "Sven" instead of "Debian"
<persia> slangasek, I'm trying not to point at specific individuals, but that's an example.
<slangasek> persia: as a DD, I find it kind of insulting that you're making such a generalization about Debian, particularly if Sven is one of the "examples" since he's not part of Debian...
<slangasek> (there are other examples who are - but I still don't think it's a fair generalization of the project)
<ScottK> In other news, the libhdf5-serial NBS could use a little working on.
<StevenK> octave-gpc?
<persia> slangasek, Fair.  My experience with most people actually working in Debian is that they are fairly quick to do things well.  My experience with d-d@ is that some things drag on for months with no useful input.
<StevenK> It's busticated, and I can't fix it
 * slangasek hides from hdf5
<ScottK> StevenK: That and libgdal-ruby and libdgal1-1.5.0 on lpia and opctave-plplot of hppa
<StevenK> ScottK: hppa is on NBS-ignore
<ScottK> StevenK: Removal would fix it.
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm also ignoring gdal on lpia
<StevenK> That leaves octave-gpc, which I tried to fix
<ScottK> Mayve NCommander would take a whack at it.  He loves pain.
<ScottK> Mayve/Maybe.
<NCommander> StevenK, as a side note, the DYMANIC_FTRACE kernel upload to lpia was done
<StevenK> Its configure script is written assuming that $major_version == 2, and it requires porting to a new octave API
 * NCommander is being absorbed into the kernel team
<StevenK> At this point, I think we don't care, but it's slangasek's call
<ScottK> OK.  How much do we care about uninstallable?
<ajmitch> porting to a new API at this late stage?
<slangasek> which part is it we don't care about?
<StevenK> slangasek: If octave-gpc is installable/works
<ajmitch> ScottK: is that pretty much it for uninstallable packages?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Often because it's in Main and a Dependency is not.
<slangasek> StevenK: "would be nice" but if not, them's the breaks
<StevenK> I think it's comatose upstream, too
<ajmitch> ScottK: oh, just for main, or is everything installable in universe now?
<ScottK> ajmitch: I think if something in Universe is actually uninstallable it comes up, but the cases I've looked at have been depends in Universe.
 * ScottK beats the drum for removal.
 * NCommander reads from the Book of Dead Packages
 * persia has 60 uninstallable packages in the amd64 local apt cache.
<ajmitch> persia: too late for most of those to be fixed?
<persia> ajmitch, Not at all.  None of them are on CDs (well, except for some ichthux stuff but that's not an official CD), so no reason we can't push them now.
<persia> ajmitch, apt-cache unmet -i should give you a list.
 * ajmitch wasn't up on when universe is frozen
<ScottK> LaserJock: Accepted.
<ajmitch> yeah, I've used that in the past
<ajmitch> not entirely accurate, since it looks at installed packages as well
<NCommander> is it too late to zap a package?
<persia> universe is getting more and more frozen as time passes, but stuff that would be SRU-worthy is typically accepted as late as possible.
<persia> NCommander, Nope.
<NCommander> persia, care to ack a removal request for iceweasel-vimperator?
<NCommander> (for obvious reason?)
<NCommander> s/\?/s/g
<StevenK> How did that manage to get in?
<NCommander> Deep magic
<persia> NCommander, I don't see the obvious reasons.  Is there some good reason why this shouldn't be treated as a bug needing attention of the mozilla-extensions team?
<NCommander> we don't have iceweasel in Ubuntu?
<StevenK> No
<persia> Is it known not to work with firefox?
<fabrice_sp> HI. I filed a bug for vimperator, and Mozilla team is having a look at it
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> That answer sthat
<fabrice_sp> Bug #286225
<NCommander> The package explicately depends on iceweasel, but no iceweasel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286225 in vimperator "[intrepid] iceweasel-vimperator: Depends: iceweasel (>= 3.0~) but it is not instalable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286225
<persia> NCommander, Yes, but iceweasel is special, because firefox is nearly the same codebase.
<NCommander> I thought iceweasel and firefox extensions were incompabitable
 * NCommander knows very very little about iceweasel though in Debian
<persia> NCommander, Only in rare cases, but they can usually be patched to work.
<NCommander> oh, I wasn't aware
 * NCommander takes a gunshot to his idea to remove the package
<NCommander> Was firefox 2 finally killed?
<ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
<NCommander> cause we still have firefox-theme-ubuntu Depends firefox2
<persia> Is the eog-dev issue just publisher skew?  That looks like main.
<ScottK> NCommander: Feel free to ask for it's removal then.
<coppro> is there no utility that can scan the database for dead dependencies?
<StevenK> NCommander: Madison on cocoplum disagrees with you
<persia> coppro, https://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck is probably a good place to look.
<NCommander> StevenK, disagrees with me on what?
<coppro> persia: can't connect to the server
<StevenK> NCommander: I can't find 'firefox-theme-ubuntu'
<NCommander> firefox-themes-ubuntu
<NCommander> :-P
<ajmitch> NCommander: if using apt-cache, it has a habit of looking at packages that are/were installed
<persia> coppro, Sorry.  My fault : http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/
<NCommander> ajmitch, that was a matter of a missing s
<coppro> persia: ah, clever. Someone should really go through that prior to a release
 * coppro bookmarks
<persia> coppro, Lots of people do, but it clearly needs more people.  The goal is to get all the numbers to 0 at some point.
<StevenK> NCommander: File a bug, and subscribe asac
<coppro> persia: yeah, I'm bookmarking it so I can help work on it
<coppro> too late to get for intrepid now, though
<ajmitch> there's always too much to do before release
<coppro> heh
<coppro> too true
<LaserJock> does anybody remember the email about this error: GtkSpinButton: setting an adjustment with non-zero page size is deprecated
<ajmitch> LaserJock: one sec, let me hunt
<ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026520.html
<ajmitch> I think that's related
<ScottK> coppro: Not entirely too late for Intrepid for Universe.
 * ajmitch just refreshed the rc bugs list after breaking it again last night
<ScottK> That's a good source too.
<coppro> ScottK: yeah, but /me doesn't have that kind of time probably
<coppro> I'll do what I can though!
<ajmitch> upgraded to intrepid, new libapt-pkg ABI, rc bugs list breaks
<ScottK> ajmitch: Don't worry.  If it wasn't that, the new Django API would have gotten you.
<ajmitch> oh this is just for the processing side
<coppro> on the plus side, my Intrepid is working fine
<ajmitch> completely detached from django
<coppro> on the down side, there is some changes I'd like to see in the upgrade process, but they are in Main
<ajmitch> the django stuff was just an experimental frontend to existing data
<coppro> so probably not going to happen :(
<NCommander> its weird
<NCommander> for the entire time I've been a developer, I've been targetting intrepid
<NCommander> and now thats going away as the main target
 * NCommander feels very strange
<ScottK> NCommander: You still have some time to go wild on intrepid SRUs before Jaunty opens.
<ajmitch> you'll get used to it
<NCommander> I'm just use the eternal sid
<ScottK> Good night everyone.
<NCommander> good night ScottK, until another day
<ScottK> No, it'll still be this one.
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> its 00:42 already
<persia> NCommander, No, it's 4:43.  You're just too far west.
<LaserJock> heh, only 21:43 here
<LaserJock> I'm still in yesterday
<NCommander> LaserJock, that's just lag ;-)
<LaserJock> persia: you have any idea what this means in a strace: futex(0x8460110, FUTEX_WAIT, 2, NULL)   = ? ERESTARTSYS (To be restarted)
<persia> LaserJock, Sorry, no.  I understand stack traces, but system call traces usually confuse me.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. compilation of gambas2 in amd64 has be changed in P-a-s, but the package still shows as non installable in amd64. Should I fill a bug to force compilation of the package?
<fabrice_sp> Hi persia :-)
<slangasek> LaserJock: it means "threads".  If it hangs there, it means "thread error".
<slangasek> LaserJock: if it's for a process you just attached to, it means "strace sucks"
<slangasek> s/strace/ptrace/
<LaserJock> slangasek: ok, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<iulian> Hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi iulian
<didrocks> good morning
<geser> Hi dholbach, didrocks
<Woody86> Hello everybody :)
 * Hobbsee waves
 * Woody86 high-fives Hobbsee
<Woody86> so what's everybody up to, sleeping or something??
<Hobbsee> probably
<directhex> the sleep of the just
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey geser!
<james_w> bug 287369
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287369 in gambas2 "[Intrepid] Gambas2 now works on amd64 platform" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287369
<james_w> how do we go about that?
<james_w> A rebuild?
<porthose> Woody86: Congrats! You have a mentor.  I am sending you an email with your mentors contact info :)
<highvoltage> what does cdbs stand for?
<cody-somerville> common debian build system I believe
<ScottK> james_w: Yes.
<james_w> ScottK: excuse me?
<viviersf> highvoltage, jou noobie :P
<ScottK> james_w: Rebuild gambas2
<james_w> ScottK: aha, thanks. I forgot I had asked a question :-)
<james_w> So I should just push a build1?
<highvoltage> viviersf: I just couldn't remember what it stands for
<viviersf> highvoltage, just a joke :)
<DktrKranz> ScottK, james_w, probably I'm wrong, but wasn't 2.8 compatible with amd64?
<DktrKranz> gambas2 --^
<james_w> The P-a-s commit message was "gambas2 2.1.0 and later have 64-bit support"
<DktrKranz> oh, so p-a-s is adjusted already?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.
<ScottK> So now we need a new upload to trigger a build for amd64
<DktrKranz> and no amd64 builds?
<DktrKranz> I guess it's automatic, unless Arch: field does not include amd64
<ScottK> No.  You'd need a trigger
<ScottK> PAS overrides what's in the control file.
<DktrKranz> I was sure adjusting p-a-s would be enough, but I am probably wrong
<ScottK> I may be wrong, but I don't think soyuz automatically scans PAS looking for new stuff it can build.
<DktrKranz> lamont told me soyuz needs 12 to 24 hours to notice p-a-s changes
<DktrKranz> if no builds since then, you're right
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Well if lamont told you, then I believe him over my guesses.
<DktrKranz> when such changes have been committed to p-a-s?
<DktrKranz> (no browser handy, sorry)
<james_w> 20th apparently
<james_w> it will not be automatic, but a buildd admin may have some magic apparently
<james_w> we are advised to upload a no-change rebuild, as that is sure to work
<james_w> which I have just done
<james_w> The gambas2 issue was fixed by the soyuz devs waving a magic wand
<Hobbsee> hurrah!
<lfaraone> Anybody have a spare intrepid box they don't mind giving a ssh account to?
<jorgenpt> lfaraone: virtualbox it.
<lfaraone> jorgenpt: I don't have root access to the local machine, so I can't install VMs.
 * RainCT points to http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14689/
<jcastro> \sh: would you be interested in running a leonov session for openweek?
<\sh> jcastro: when is it?
<jcastro> 3 Nov to 7 Nov
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<jcastro> prep page if you want to add a session
<jcastro> actually, that goes for any MOTU who wants to run a session
<\sh> jcastro: I would love too...but I'm on the road during this week...from 3rd (Monday) to Sunday :(
<jcastro> :-/
<\sh> jcastro: on the road means: I'm working @ our DC during nightimes, which means sleeping time is during the day
<nxvl> \sh: maybe you can send someone from your team to run a session
<\sh> nxvl: good idea...trying to catch thekorn ;)
<thekorn> \sh: very late pong
<\sh> thekorn: would you like to run a leonov session during openweek?
<\sh> thekorn: I'm somehow busy work related (working nightshifts in our DCs)
 * \sh is brb ... 15 mins 
<thekorn> \sh: I'll think about it tonight, off for sport right now, let's discuss it in #leonov
<ScottK> persia: I'd be curious to know if "Discussion of the MC application processes." included review of the feedback from some tech board members?
<persia> ScottK, No.  It wasn't about criteria.  More about the fact that it *shouldn't* take months to process an application.  Applicants should get approved or denied.
<persia> The comments from the tech board are interesting, and I am anxiously awaiting mdz to start the thread asking MOTU to define ourselves.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  I'd like to suggest that the TB comments should be discussed.
<persia> I don't think they should be discussed within MC.  I think mdz is correct that it's a wider thing, and should be discussed within MOTU.
<persia> MC should take guidance from MOTU when determining the appropriate criteria.
<ScottK> OK.  I guess I took it as MC is acting as a TB delegate on such decisions and so that's where MC should look.
<persia> I agree with that : that's why I asked for clarification in the TB meeting.
<persia> On the other hand, if TB seeks input from MOTU, I don't think the MC should be the sole source of that input, and I'm not sure it's productive for MC to establish a separate consensus from that of MOTU generally.
<persia> To me, it seems clear that some members of TB consider MOTU to be independent of universe.  I thought that the statements by the TB were clear, but do not object to TB polling MOTU if they think that is the appropriate solution.
<persia> ScottK, Of particular note are the comments by a majority of TB at 16:03 (from irclogs.u.c) which seem to establish a consensus, and mdz's comment from 16:06.
<persia> I interpret 16:06 as overriding the previous consensus of 16:03.
<ScottK> Looking
<ScottK> persia: I agree that where we are now is waiting for mdz to complete his action.
<persia> As I stated at the time, I'm happy to go with 16:03, although it doesn't match my gut feeling.  On the other hand, I think completing the previous incomplete discussion has value, especially considering that many of the most prolific contributors in intrepid are not MOTU, and have not applied to be MOTU.
<ScottK> Additionally, if you go with what keybuck said at 16:06, then for people who only want to upload to Main, there is no path to core-dev.
<persia> ScottK, Do you also agree that the discussion would benefit from a larger group than just MC?
<ScottK> persia: Yes.
<persia> ScottK, Yeah.  Keybuk's 16:06 comment confuses me, especially given his previous support for ArchiveReorganisation, which seems to be a mechanism to establish just that.
<RainCT> porthose: ping
<persia> Further, rtg is a counter-case to that statement : in at least one case there is someone with ACL upload rights to main who does not have upload rights to the rest of the archive.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> It seems the major distinction between him and (I'm blanking on the name) the emacs-snapshot case is insider versus outsider and I don't think that's a good way to decide.
<persia> I think you're thinking of the ltsp stuff, rather then emacs-snapshot.
<persia> for emacs-snapshot, I think the problem is our sponsoring process.  For rus-ispell/xserver-xorg-video-nsc I think the problem is our SRU process.
<persia> Both of those need lower latency, and special casing doesn't help that much.  There are exceptional cases (and emacs-snapshot may be one), but there are also core concerns.
<ScottK> Perhaps.
<persia> For ltsp, there's a clear need for a known active ubuntu member to upload only a small set of packages, and that individual has little interest in upload access to the rest of the archive.
<persia> To me, having that person jump through the hoop of being MOTU seems odd, especially given their leadership in other areas, but that needs discussion.
<persia> jcastro, Just signed up for Open Week : I'll take the 15:00 Wednesday slot to discuss "Polishing a package" meaning review the bugs, grab any available fixes, and submit a candidate for review.
<jcastro> persia: sounds excellent.
<jcastro> persia: please don't forget a description at the bottom!
<persia> Erps.  Thanks :)
 * RainCT notes that REVU is going down for maintenance
<sebner> RainCT: yeah, time to b0rk something :D#
<RainCT> sebner: yep, REVU has been working fine for too long already :D
<sebner> \o/
<RainCT> (is any psql wizard around?)
<sebner> RainCT: fixed your gnome? (though my theorie is that gnome is unfixable and because of that just GREAT)  :D
<RainCT> sebner: nope
<RainCT> still freezing :(
<sebner> RainCT: bah, be b0rken is one thing but freezing is just crap :\
<RainCT> well, it's not normal freezing: it freezes the whole computer at startup and I have to hard-reboot :/
<fabrice_sp> RainCT: I have the same problem. In my case, It seems that it's during network connection with wifi
<Awsoonn> is ther a way to put data on the clipboard from a bash script?
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: oh. but I've no wifi here
<cody-somerville> yup
<RainCT> Awsoonn: yes
 * Awsoonn smiles @ RainCT do you happen to have an example?
<fabrice_sp> So, ho do you debug this kind of thing (freeze on startup, with hard reboot)? I tried to boot from another partition, but no strange messages in logs...
<RainCT> Awsoonn: look at xsel
<RainCT> (I had to look it up, didn't remember the name :))
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: I don't know :)
<Awsoonn> so cool, thanks RainCT, I found some good stuff to read on it
<RainCT> Awsoonn: you're welcome :)
<pochu> sebner: btw, does amule need a FFe? I thought 2.2.1->2.2.2 was bugfix only
<RainCT> he first to get a traceback on REVU gets a prize :P
<RainCT> *the
<persia> RainCT, What's the prize?
<RainCT> dunno.. an image of a cake? XD
<persia> Not worth hitting it with a pentest then :)
<RainCT> porthose: you've got moderator status now :)
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> persia: well, it's basically just trying that all the stuff (post comments, delete comments, advocate, etc.) still works
<iulian> RainCT: Do you still have that biscuit?
<RainCT> iulian: yeah! XD
<iulian> I'm in then!
<sebner> pochu: Good question. ScottK told me "Make a FFe for amule". I'll quickly recheck and decide then what todo.
<sebner> pochu: This is a stable release which features mainly bug fixes and improvements upon the 2.2.x series of aMule.
<RainCT> Jazzva: have you uploaded iceweasel-itsalltext or should I do?
<Jazzva> RainCT, I'm not a MOTU. Please do it. Thanks :)
<Awsoonn> RainCT: xsel seems pretty cool, but after about 10 minutes I realized I'm logged in via ssh and I was beign silly.
<RainCT> iulian: no luck? :)
<ScottK> RainCT and Jazzva: I got it accepted this time, but renaming packages and as a result stuffing them into the New queue really isn't a great idea this close to release.
<sebner> ScottK: pingeling :)
<ScottK> sebner: Pong
<sebner> ScottK: I'm wondering if we really need a FFe for amule
<ScottK> sebner: Perhaps not.
<ScottK> It's been some time since I looked at it.
<sebner> ScottK: depending on how strict we are. 99% are bugfixes and the remaining 1% are minor minor new things
<ScottK> sebner: At this point make the FFe then.
<sebner> ScottK: kk, just wanted to recheck with you
<ScottK> sebner: I have to justify accepts to ubuntu-release, so it'll help.
<sebner> ScottK: I see. Not long than 30 minutes then it'll be ready to ACK
<ScottK> Great
<ScottK> sebner: Does the ssmtp bug apply to earlier releases too?
<sebner> ScottK: yep, /me will prepare SRU's the next days
<sebner> ScottK: btw, /me is still impressed how long amule takes to build ^^
<Woody86> hello everybody :)
<ScottK> sebner: It won't be SRU, it'll be -security, won't it?
<sebner> ScottK: of course but Stable release update is nearly the same for me since it's an update or a stable release. security or not ^^
<sebner> *or = for
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> sebner: Is it all the releases affected?
<sebner> ScottK: unfortunately yes, back to dapper
<ScottK> OK
<sebner> ScottK: ha! me is still in time. 6 minutes left =)
<Woody86> ember - hello :)
<ScottK> sebner: Looks like nxvl is beating you too it.
<ScottK> too/to
<slytherin> james_w: I have just updated attachment for bug #268930, are you planning to sponsor it (since you added the comment about dependencies) or should I ask someone else?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268930 in fop "FOP fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.w3c.dom.svg.SVGDocument" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268930
<sebner> ScottK: why? It was my decision to make SRU's ;)
<ScottK> sebner: I see one debdiff in the bug already from him.
<sebner> ScottK: true because he thought my changelog was not made in the correct way but it was (expect the versionsnumber)
<ScottK> Ah.
<sebner> *exept
<sebner> *except
<sebner> grrr
<slytherin> geser: there?
<sebner> ScottK: grr, damn icq. ready now :)
<ScottK> sebner: Bug #?
<sebner> ScottK: bug #260471 , DO something. They stole my ssmtp SRU's :( :( :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260471 in amule "[FFe] Merge amule (2.2.2-1) experimental" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260471
<ScottK> sebner: Why do we need replaces amule-common?
<sebner> ScottK: I talked to pochu (last uploader). because in our svn version we had stuff there what was moved to amule to reduce the debian delta
<ScottK> sebner: In what release did amule-common last exist?
<ScottK> As a real package, not virtual.
<pochu> ScottK: if you remove it, it will break upgrades
<pochu> amule-common is a real package
<sebner> ScottK: webserver stuff
<pochu> it's a replaces because some files where moved from amule-common to amule
<ScottK> When?
<sebner> ScottK: our svn version -> debian resync
<pochu> ScottK: in hardy it's in amule-common
<ScottK> pochu: OK.  It's needed then.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pochu> I can ask dato to add it to the Debian package, so we can sync in the future
<sebner> pochu: sync \o/ :) I'll file it then :P
<sebner> ScottK: are you happy that I made a screenshot? Bonus points?  ^ ^
<ajmitch> hi
<ScottK> sebner: Ack'ed.
 * sebner  hugs ScottK =)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you have a look at bug #260471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260471 in amule "[FFe] Merge amule (2.2.2-1) experimental" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260471
<sebner> ScottK: It is possible.  <--- HAHA :)
<ScottK> It's not there yet.
<pochu> sebner: btw, tango icons look nicer ;)
 * DktrKranz looks
<pochu> sebner: switch to them in preferences :)
<sebner> pochu: lol
<pochu> sebner: feel free to subscribe to amule bugs, it's low traffic lol :P
<sebner> pochu: hehe
<ScottK> jdong: You around?  I've got a backports policy question.
<sebner> pochu: tango = tangerine? ^^
<pochu> sebner: dato is committing the replaces bit to git
<pochu> will be available in the next upload
<DktrKranz> sebner, ScottK: fine for me too.
<sebner> pochu: great. /me is already keen to sync stuff for jaunty :D
<sebner> DktrKranz: thanks ;D
<pochu> hehe
<DktrKranz> sebner, now get superpowers and upload it yourself, Y.R.B.
<sebner> pochu: DktrKranz : I still need a sponsors ACK
<sebner> DktrKranz: S. I. K. Y.  , Not enough time to be added to the group :P
<DktrKranz> please grant sebner a MCe (MOTU Council exception)
<sebner> ROFL
<sebner> DktrKranz: What about a Se? Sebner expection ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner, I don't like the name
<sebner> bah :P
<ScottK> pochu: Would you do the amule upload?
<DktrKranz> pochu, if you lack time, I could have a look later
<DktrKranz> (but not too sure about it)
 * pochu doesn't have where to test ATM
<pochu> so if you can, that would be great
<pochu> sebner: what about applying for MOTUship?
<DktrKranz> well... my ISP is blocking amule connections, so I can test if it builds and installs only
<sebner> pochu: why?
<sebner> DktrKranz: what about my nice picture :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, we are *scared* of your future sync/merge requests for jauntyu
<pochu> sebner: to not need sponsors ;)
<sebner> pochu: hehe, at least forget it for intrepid cycle (not that long though ^^)
<sebner> DktrKranz: YOU or the archive admins? ^^
<pochu> haha
<DktrKranz> sebner, they don't get queried
<DktrKranz> as you do with me :D
<pochu> lol
 * sebner hides
 * pochu goes to study
<sebner> pochu: hf if possible ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner, no hideout for you, I know them all
<pochu> boson - core package for Boson
<pochu> lol at the description
<pochu> bbl
<DktrKranz> pochu, what about "boson - boson, what else you need to know?"
<DktrKranz> gah, my i386 debomatic machine is down, so I need to push it to PPA to have it tested :/
<DktrKranz> sebner, are you able to open packages.u.c ?
 * DktrKranz not
<sebner> DktrKranz: yep, b0rken. was working some hours ago though
 * DktrKranz hopes in rmadison now
<sebner> DktrKranz: rmadison?
<DktrKranz> rmadison -u ubuntu amule-common
 * sebner learns everyday something new =)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Did that one a while ago http://paste.ubuntu.com/61197/
<ScottK> DktrKranz: BTW, -u ubuntu is default now.
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> ScottK: what wlan do you have?
<ScottK> What do you mean?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, ah... need to adjust my aliases then
<sebner> ScottK: wlancard
<sebner> ScottK: ah sry, ignore me
<pkern> Sadly Debian's rmadison doesn't know about -u.
<ScottK> Ah.  I'm on a desktop here, but my laptop is intel 4965
<DktrKranz> pkern, really?
<sebner> ScottK: he missread something. I thought you didn't use intrepid earlier because of br0ken wlan support. But it's about kde and nm
<ScottK> sebner: Yes.  That was fixed around beta time.
<sebner> ScottK: he = me xD
<ScottK> It was due to NetworkManager 0.7 getting uploaded before KNetworkManager had been updated to the new API.
<sebner> ScottK: using unstable isn't that bad. AFAIK xorg only broke 2 times. Ok, Nvidia around 10 times but that's not necessary for life ^^
<ScottK> sebner: It's one thing if you are a student.  It's another when you need these boxes for $WORK.
<DktrKranz> sebner, testbuilding amule right now
<sebner> ScottK: a student also has to use them. ok work is different but 1 or 2 days with broken Xorg in 6 months is pretty good :D
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
<ScottK> Yes, but you know that after, not before.
<sebner> ScottK: to make it more funny /me only has *1* box/laptop
<DktrKranz> sebner, I hope it will bypass my ISP filters, or borrow me some free internet, please
<sebner> DktrKranz: letter is already on his way :P
 * DktrKranz is angry when a State decide to block *illegal* peer-to-peer traffic
<sebner> hrhr
<DktrKranz> where "illegal" = "I need to test if something works"
<sebner> DktrKranz: proxies doesn't work?
<pkern> DktrKranz: rly
<sebner> DktrKranz: amule takes pretty long to build :\
<DktrKranz> how long?
<sebner> DktrKranz: /here 5-10 minutes
<sebner> DktrKranz: more likely around 10 ^^
<DktrKranz> not too bad, I uploaded to PPA
<DktrKranz> since my i386 box is out of business for now
<sebner> DktrKranz: well for a small desktop app it's pretty long :\
<DktrKranz> Finished:  	 2008-07-01  (took 24 minutes)
<DktrKranz> porc...
<sebner> hehe
<pochu> sebner: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/amule.git;a=commitdiff;h=73d577f5b4c7bc0d8d9add33b429eb6881fc6db4
<DktrKranz> mh, my PPA builds have stalled...
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-23
<wgrant> Wow. Big changes in Debian.
<directhex> good or bad?
<directhex> hang on, big changes? with lenny in freeze?
<RAOF> wgrant: Are you talking about the firmware shitfight?
<RAOF> Argh.  Whoops! Sorry.
<wgrant> The DM/DME/DD/blahblah.
<RAOF> That's obviously on some Debian list I don't follow.
<slangasek> debian-devel-announce.
<persia> Which, if one follows any Debian lists, should probably be near the top of important lists.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> It's the only Debian list I'm completely up to date on.
<NCommander> Whats DME?
<NCommander> wgrant, ^
<wgrant> Debian Member.
<NCommander> Debian has members?
<RAOF> Aaah.
<RAOF> Just hit that mail :)
 * NCommander blinks
<wgrant> NCommander: See the d-d-a mail.
<wgrant> Also DC.
 * NCommander feels like Debian just pulled an Ubuntu
<persia> DME is a lovely step.  Nice to see that.
<wgrant> It is excellent.
<directhex> i've got my own page on packages.qa.debian.org, what do i get to be? ^_^
<persia> And DC is DM for DME?  Do I understand that right?
<wgrant> persia: I think so.
 * persia should really apply for DM one of these days.
<NCommander> I think my head hurts
<wgrant> persia: But digging around for a sponsor hours before Lenny's freeze is fun!
<NCommander> persia, if your interested in becoming a Debian Maintainer or Debian Developer, I'd be willing to work w/ you on this goal.
<directhex> wgrant, digging around for a sponsor hours after intrepid's freeze is also fun
<persia> wgrant, I suppose.  I've not been so active lately, but a couple weeks ago there were no RC bugs against my packages (and I am short on time these days).
<wgrant> directhex: But sponsorship in Ubuntu isn't stupid.
<NCommander> directhex, finding Ubuntu sponsors are less of a headache
<directhex> NCommander, i've found it much much easier to get uploads into debian, tbh
<RAOF> That depends on the team, I suspect.
<directhex> yeah, RAOF has a point
<RAOF> Since directhex is fairly core in Debian Mono :)
<directhex> yet i always need to beg for hours->days->weeks for an ubuntu upload
<RAOF> And even I find it easy enough to get new CIL packages uploaded.
<directhex> thank god for the post-lentrepid mono syncing plan
<RAOF> Yah.  We might actually want to get some form of active mono team happening (which would necessarily involve a core-dev)
<wgrant> Generating a new core-dev might be useful there.
<directhex> could we clone slomo? he was always good for mono, but is too busy nowadays
 * persia suspects that cloning slomo would result in two busy slomos
<RAOF> persia: But maybe one of the busy slomos could be busy with mono!
<directhex> bleh
<persia> RAOF, Maybe :)
<directhex> anyway, i think mono has a vibrant & active developer base which on paper is focused on debian, and uploadwise is focused on debian, but i know myself and i suspect RAOF too are actually doing development & testing on ubuntu first & foremost
<directhex> all we need is a hard-line to a core dev, for those times when i can't beg pitti
<directhex> since pitti is hardly a man of free time either
<persia> Well, there are currently two routes.  Either find a MOTU who keeps touching mono and convince them to apply for core-dev, or wait until the TB has determined the procedure for non-MOTU to apply for upload to main, and use that.
<directhex> i strongly suspect the unwritten "whoever touched it last is first contact" rule is at least as much to blame for "i ain't touching it" responses as fud blogs making mono sound like the devil
<directhex> anyway, bedtime
<persia> Yeah.  I never really liked the TIL principle.
<directhex> persia, i'd MUCH rather people contact me, or even original-maintainer (which goes to me and a few others), in the case of the mono stack - since i reckon we're rather more comfortable with the packages than people like pitti or slangasek
<persia> directhex, Don't you end up with TIL because of Changed-By: ?
<directhex> but, y'know, whatever. i'm certainly not unhappy about intrepid's mono (for one thing, it's great that lenny & intrepid will ship the same version). but jaunty's mono will be light years ahead
<persia> Hrm.  Oddly not reliably.
<directhex> persia, oh i dunno. i certainly haven't been notified of ubuntuX bumps since i took on packaging duties
<directhex> anyway, bedtime, i mean it this time
<ajmitch> RAOF: what's this about mono stuff?
<RAOF> ajmitch: We'd like quick and easy access to a core-dev mono sponsor :).  And by "we" I mean "mostly directhex"!
<crimsun> push really hard for ArchiveReorganisation ;-)
 * persia peers carefully at ajmitch's groups membership.
<persia> crimsun, Doesn't really help that much : changes the problem to needing somone on the Desktop Development team (which currently doesn't exist).
<ajmitch> persia: I'm not in groups :)
<persia> ajmitch, You are the very basis of groups.
<ajmitch> why, because I'm in core-dev but not motu or even ubuntumembers?
<crimsun> pfft, I'm not in any of those three!
<ajmitch> you were
<crimsun> yeah well...
 * ajmitch decided to renew at least 1 of them
<persia> crimsun, you know : you could reapply.  Threshold is low for previous members ...
<ajmitch> especially previous members like crimsun
 * persia isn't sure that it's not an oily slide in this case
<ajmitch> I suspect reapplying for core-dev will be a rubberstamp at most
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, if you're a member of core-dev then you're a member of ubuntumembers
<ajmitch> cody-somerville: yes I know
<cody-somerville> ajmitch, and if you're not careful, we might add you to motu :P
<ajmitch> you have no reason to
<ScottK> NCommander: I read the dda announcement as rather the opposite.
<NCommander> ??
<ScottK> Instead of being an Ubuntu, I read it as "Gee, we've got a light weight process that is working smoothly.  Le't make it harder."
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> I wonder when this was passed
<nxvl> ScottK: the lack of sleep never helps
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK> Dunno.  I'm not aware of the current DM process leading to any problem DMs.
<ScottK> But clearly it's too easy so it needs to be made harder.
<nxvl> DM as in Debian Maintainer?
<persia> ScottK, How was it made harder?  I read it as offering the DC and DME categories for non-developers as parallel to DM/DD.  Good news for translators, porters, etc.
<ScottK> True for the DC route (that being new).
<ScottK> Currently to get DM you had to be sponsored by one DD and have no one object.
 * persia reads the email again
<ScottK> That's gotten morphed into some mini-NM process with questions, answers, and reviews.
<ScottK> Currently if you are a DM and want the right to upload a package, all you have to do is convince your sponsor (or any DD) to add the DM allowed flag to debian/control
<persia> ScottK, Indeed.  I see your point.
<ScottK> This message creates a new review process and a separate list.
<persia> Hrm.  I guess I should have applied last week.
<ScottK> Finally, the statement that it takes no power out of the hands of DDs is not correct.
<ScottK> Previously, any DD had the right to authorize a DM to upload a package.  That has been taken away.
<persia> And DD vote diluted (although I consider that good, as I think DME is good).
<persia> Anyway, there are forums for this discussion, and this isn't one of them :)
<ScottK> So for at least that part of it, I read it more as , "Hey, we've got this fast, light weight process that's working well.  Let's fix that."
<persia> That's a little too sarcastic.
<persia> Maybe there was a problem DM?
<ScottK> Yes, but only a little.
<ScottK> Maybe.
<ScottK> The original DM process dealt with how to resolve such problems too.
<ScottK> So back to my original point, compared to Debian, I think Ubuntu tends to be lightweight process wise and rather more agile.
<nxvl> ScottK: way more
<ScottK> So this was a step in the opposite direction IMO.
<persia> I think Ubuntu is different.  Many things seem to be lightweight, but other things are less so.  It's a different way of coordinating things.  Some things are easier, some things are harder.
 * ajmitch goes to cactch up on debian-devel
<ScottK> ajmitch: It's d-d-a.
<ajmitch> yeah, and followups on debian-project
<ScottK> Perhaps I ought to subscribe to that one.
<ScottK> OTOH, maybe not.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Is this a proposal or is it the new order?
<nxvl> \o/ i can read those ML from here
<ScottK> The message doesn't actually say.
<ajmitch> "This was initially written by me, then discussed within DAM (so take
<ajmitch> us two for we)  and then discussed with DSA, FTPMaster,
<ajmitch> Keyring-Maint, Secretary, FrontDesk and the DPL.
<ajmitch> "
<ajmitch> but not stated if it's actually a policy yet
<nxvl> ScottK: Developer Status e-mail?
<ScottK> Yes.
 * ScottK reads the archive now.
<NCommander> Wasn't DM passed by GR?
<ajmitch> so far there hasn't been much discussion about it
<NCommander> SHouldn't this pass too by GR?
<NCommander> ajmitch, most people are still flaming about firmware in linux-2.6
<ajmitch> NCommander: most likely, and it'll probably require a GR
<StevenK> NCommander: Yes, but now the ftp-masters are annoyed that they have been bypassed
<NCommander> ON linux-2.6, or DMs?
 * StevenK is talking about DMs
<ScottK> I see that Raphael Geissert has already made most of my points.
<NCommander> ?
 * ScottK tries to decide if he should feel more or less motivated to work on NM.
<StevenK> ScottK: If you pass NM now, you get grandfathered in
<NCommander> StevenK, so as long as I don't get rejected, I should be ok :-)
<persia> Hrm?  6-month waiting time?
<ajmitch> persia: you can't rush these things
<StevenK> What 6-month waiting time? :-P
<nxvl> ScottK: i get the same feeling as you "it's too easy, let's fix it"
<persia> ajmitch, It's that I didn't think that anyone ever complained the process was too fast.
<nxvl> what!? 6 month wait
<nxvl> that's crazy
<ScottK> It's already taken me more than 6 months, so that's not a problem.
 * StevenK declines to state how long he was in NM
<NCommander> StevenK, yes, we all know about your two day NM :-P
 * NCommander runs
<StevenK> It wasn't two days
<NCommander> I thought it was like one or two
<StevenK> Closer to a week, but still
<nxvl> why did it took you so less
<nxvl> my NM process has been frozen for like 4 months
<NCommander> nxvl, cause he applied in '01
<nxvl> they state i'm a good candidate, but that i haven't to much uploads
<nxvl> oh
 * NCommander had three uploads at the time of NM ...
<NCommander> :-)
<nxvl> NCommander: you are DD already?
<NCommander> Waiting on the DAM
<NCommander> ^to make my account
<NCommander> so a week or so
<ScottK> NCommander: That probably means this is a really good time to be outspoken about this new proposal.
<NCommander> I didn't think the DD process was changing
<NCommander> You still had to finish P&P 1+2 and T&S 1+@
<nxvl> it says that you are waiting for FD
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> Wotcher didn't update it
<NCommander> Oh well
<NCommander> I'll be waiting for the DAM relatively soon ;-)
<ScottK> I guess today is "Paul Hummer Day" on planet.
<persia> heh
<Flannel> ScottK: tomorrow it can be your day if you want
<ScottK> If I wanted, every day could be my day.
<nxvl> that's the power of being ScottK
<nxvl> :P
<ajmitch> I was shocked to see ScottK posting
<ajmitch> what's next? ScottK praising launchpad?
<nxvl> same here, happy, but shocked
<ScottK> ajmitch: Unlikely.
<ScottK> Although apparently they are going to open up all their design documentation in the next week or two.  No more secret specs.
<ScottK> That's progress.
<ajmitch> that's great to hear
<nxvl> they as in?
<nxvl> ah launchpad
<nxvl> i missed that line
 * ScottK wonders where all the busy MOTU trying to get last minute bug fixes in have gone?
<Hobbsee> they ran away?
<ScottK> I guess.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure how much stuff in universe there is that should be fixed for release.
 * persia is busy testing RC candidates, but plans to attack RCbugs post-RC.
<persia> Hobbsee, There's lots of unmetdeps, there's still a bunch of ftbfs, and there's RCbugs.
<ajmitch> how late is too late?
 * Hobbsee is iso testing as well
<persia> Monday.
<ajmitch> monday US time? :)
 * ajmitch has a 3-day weekend
<persia> Or maybe UTC, depending on when people get up in the morning.
 * wgrant ponders quickly adding an 'unimportant' flag to rcbugs.
<ajmitch> comments not enough for now?
<ajmitch> or you just want some easier way to be able to skip them?
<wgrant> The list of cherrypickings is growing.
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> So things like cherrypicked fixes would be marked as unimportant, as they'd somewhat fade away,.
<ajmitch> special comment or other thing that causes the bug to just not be displayed?
<persia> You mean a way to mark that a cherrypick is complete, so it drops off the list?
<wgrant> persia: Basically, yes.
<wgrant> Or that it doesn't affect Ubuntu, or something else.
<persia> My practice has basically been to ignore anything that had a comment when doing a final sweep, unless the comment was an RFS.
<wgrant> It'd be only a few lines to add such a field to comments and alter the CSS.
<ajmitch> right, hiding in CSS may be the quickest way
<ajmitch> or marking in a different colour
<persia> Don't suppose we could have a nifty javascript button at the top that wangled the CSS to show/hide such things?
<ajmitch> wouldn't be hard
<wgrant> We could also easily just split them into another section, like MoM does with updated/new.
 * wgrant will think more post-lunch.
<persia> That's probably easier to review.
<iulian> Good morning.
 * wgrant points at the new functionality on rcbugs
 * wgrant demotes lots of existing ones.
<persia> \o/
<ajmitch> wgrant: ah good, you implemented it?
<wgrant> ajmitch: It looks like it.
<ajmitch> nice, so you have to attach the demotion to a comment
<ajmitch> seems like it could work well
<wgrant> I thought that was the easiest way to implement it, given that we don't have bug objects in the DB.
<wgrant> And I don't want silent demotions.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<annimar> I know it's probably impertinent, but could this be the right place to point to a blocker for abiword on intrepid? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/284857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284857 in abiword "Abiword crashes on using "Create and modify styles..." from the format menu" [Undecided,New]
<persia> annimar, I'd recommend #xubuntu-devel, as they are probably the most interested party at this point in the cycle, and you'd need their approval anyway to change it.
<annimar> persia: I would, but the bug doesn't affect xubuntu. It's Ubuntu-only.
<persia> Wait.  It works in Xubuntu, but doesn't work in Ubuntu?
 * persia looks at the bug more carefully.
<annimar> persia: that's right.
<persia> annimar, Did you report or comment on the bug?
<annimar> I reported it
<annimar> persia, should be reproducable on all ubuntu installations
<persia> annimar, Interesting.  It looks like an issue with not finding ubuntulooks.  The workaround is to install gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks on Ubuntu.
<persia> I'll update the bug with the workaround, but it's still the Xubuntu devs who would be the ones to update the package.
<annimar> persia, thank you. Should I try to get in touch with the xubuntu devs on irc?
<annimar> persia, so this is a dependency problem, right?
<persia> annimar, If you want a fast response, yes, although if they are busy, they may not be able to help you now.
<persia> Yes, it's a dependency issue (see my comment in the bug).
<annimar> thanks a lot. I'll try to get someone of the xubuntu devs on irc
<annimar> bye
<didrocks> monring
<directhex> is it? :(
<persia> Depends on where you are, what timezone you choose to follow, and how one defines morning.
<frith> not sure where to ask, but i noticed svn 1.5.3 has been released however
<frith> doh
<frith> sorry
<frith> just released i hadn't updated
<DktrKranz> well, somewhere in the world is always "morning", somewhere else is "afternoon" and somewhere else is "evening". Hard to tell, then ;)
<persia> frith, Barring exceptional circumstances, it won't be included in Ubuntu until next month, at which time you'd want to file a backport (assuming nobody tries to go to 1.6)
<frith> persia, 1.6?
<persia> frith, Yep.  Watch http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/www/svn_1.6_releasenotes.html carfully for news.
<frith> that is a pretty fast development cycle,
<persia> Dunno if it will happen.  I doubt it personally.  I'm just not 100% sure which version will be available next month when subversion is next updated.
<frith> I think i might just build my own 1.5.3 packages for giggles
<persia> Could do.  If they work well, consider sharing them next month.
<frith> no problem
<DktrKranz> does anybody remember the plans to remove glib-1.2 from Debian, and eventually has some references to it?
<persia> DktrKranz, Those plans have been tossed about for at least 18 months.  There are a few persistently stubborn applications.  One chain starts at ctsim, but when compiled against newer libraries it segfaults on startup, and upstream is hostile to porting at this time.  Another starts with searchandrescue, but upstream is inactive, and it needs to have the entire joystick interface ported to a different API (it's a flight simulator, so getting thi
<persia> s right is key).
<DktrKranz> \o/
<DktrKranz> persia: thanks
<persia> I suspect there are more, but those are the two that I've previously stumbled against.
<persia> fixing ctsim also means dropping wx2.4
<DktrKranz> I heard of it in the past, but I didn't see any progress on that, now I realized why
<persia> fixing searchandrescue also means dropping jscalibrator, which is known to cause most USB joysticks to need to be reset after running.
<highvoltage> dholbach: why does it say (fedora) after the items on http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/age.html ?
<highvoltage> ah, sorry, I see.
<james_w> do we need motu-release ACK for every change now, or should I just wait for an announcement?
<ScottK> I think we said after the RC, so it should be OK.  If in doubt, feel free to ask.
<james_w> it's pretty safe, just didn't want to get spanked for not following the procedure, thanks.
<morgs> james_w: thanks for testing bug 287028 - I'll leave it for lfaraone to fix, seeing as it's his patch and IMO not critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287028 in sugar "Control panel Network/Wireless error" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287028
<james_w> yeah, I think it's no trouble to just leave it unfixed in Intrepid
<james_w> morgs: is there anything critical for the release you know of?
<james_w> missing transitional packages or similar things?
<morgs> james_w: bug 287745 is quite important, a wrong dep, has debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287745 in sugar-web-activity "Installing sugar-web-activity uninstalls epiphany" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287745
<morgs> james_w: bug 286764 seems to be the only actual failure on upgrade, I'll work on that today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286764 in sugar-hulahop "package python-hulahop 0.4.6-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286764
<james_w> morgs: thanks, I'm looking at the first now
<ScottK> james_w: Is gedit-plugins the upload you just did?
<james_w> ScottK: yeah
<ScottK> OK.
<james_w> it was my fault for not sponsoring the right thing the first time around
<james_w> and the diff is tiny
<ScottK> OK.  I just asked ubuntu-release to accept it.
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> I'll be uploading morgs' sugar-web-activity in a minute if it passes muster, just a dep change
<ScottK> OK.  gedit-plugins accepted.
<james_w> thanks
<DktrKranz> ScottK: amule uploaded after FFe
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Great.
<sebner> DktrKranz: don't forget to notice me :P
<DktrKranz> sebner: well... your business is already done ;)
<DktrKranz> but new version seems to bypass my ISP so... it deserves to be in :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: hehe, is LP b0rken or did you miss something?
<DktrKranz> sebner: unapproved queue :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: ahhhh
<sebner> DktrKranz: there is quite _a lot_ in the unapproved queue ^^
<ScottK> sebner: It's almost all Main stuff that will get accepted after the RC is out.  To accept it now, they'd have to respin CDs.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: did you already ask to accpt cacao and xubuntu-meta, or do they need to wait after RC?
<ScottK> Which means now is a good time to get Universe uploads done as after the RC release, the buildd's will be busy.
<sebner> ScottK: understandable but also stuff from a week ago is there
<ScottK> DktrKranz: xubuntu-meta would affect the xubuntu CD's so it definitely needs to wait.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: The cacao one is tied to some Java thing in Main, so I think it needs to wait too.
<DktrKranz> ScottK: good. I ignore it for now. Thanks.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: \o/
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<mok0> Can someone help me shed some light on the following problem: packages that are sync'ed directly from Debian has "unstable" in their latest changelog entry, whereas packages that are merged have the ubuntu release (e.g. intrepid) in the latest entry. How does the build system deal with that? I am asking because I am in the process of recompiling a bunch of local packages for intrepid, but it seems to me that I need to bump the version number of every
<mok0> ... and that really annoys me
<james_w> mok0: it doesn't use the information from the changelog, it uses the .changes files
<mok0> james_w: yes, but can that be set somehow?
<james_w> normally when you build the changelog distribution is copied to the .changes
<mok0> james_w: so I do some sed magic on the _changes file?
<james_w> when you sync it effectively (?) puts intrepid in the .changes, regardless of what is in the changelog
<james_w> that would work
<mok0> james_w: Thanks! I'll try it!
<james_w> it depends on what build system you are using, you may just be able to give it a .dsc and tell it what release to build for
<mok0> james_w: I am using sbuild
<ScottK> mok0: If you want a hint on adjusting .changes. see http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
<persia> sbuild *should* eat anything you pass it, although you may be blocked by front-end scripts.
<mok0> ScottK: Thx a lot!
<mok0> Of course sbuild may not put its distro in .changes but I will check that
<ScottK> mok0: You're welcome
<DktrKranz> ScottK: can we sync packages directly?
<mok0> ScottK: is that THE script being used for sync'ing?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Certainly not now because someone needs to accept everything and not according to the rules.
<ScottK> mok0: No.  It's used as a backup when 'the script' is broken.
 * ScottK whistles silently in the corner and doesn't recall at all why he knows about that script.
<mok0> ScottK: I can probably adapt it to my local needs, though
<ScottK> mok0: I suspected that would be the case.
 * mok0 is happy
<ScottK> Actually I have a better version.  Let me mail it to you.  What address?
<ScottK> mok0: That version is a bit fragile.
<mok0> mok0@ubuntu.com
<mok0> :)
<DktrKranz> ScottK: CC me, I often mangle .changes myself for my local testbuilds
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: What address?
<DktrKranz> ScottK-laptop: dktrkranz@ubuntu.com
<ScottK-laptop> Sent to both of you.
<DktrKranz> thanks
<huats> #
<huats> sorry (wrong tab..)
<DktrKranz> sebner: amule is gone
<TiMiDo> hey can someone help me to get my GPG key sign?
<sebner> DktrKranz: great \o/
<DktrKranz> ScottK: now RC is almost gone, we should approve every upload. Did you do it via IRC last cycle too?
<DktrKranz> or filing bugs is required?
<ScottK> Mostly.
<ScottK> I don't think we require a bug unless it's a new upstream.
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll try to keep my online presence high during these days
<mok0> TiMiDo: How can we verify you are who you say you are?
<DktrKranz> last day is next monday, isn't it?
<ScottK> Probably Sunday, but it varies a little release to release.
<TiMiDo> mok0, well i can send you an email with my information and my id information. or show you my passport =)
<persia> Also depends on one's location.  The further east you live, the later you can upload.
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll have a look at u-u-s queue too and try to review the most important stuff
<persia> TiMiDo, Best to find somebody nearby : the strong set is fairly widely distributed.  BigLumber can help.
<TiMiDo> is there any ubuntu member in miami?
<mok0> TiMiDo: I want to see you and your passport :-)
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-October/000508.html, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<mok0> TiMiDo: I just googled this: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0202/pgp.html
<mok0> TiMiDo: perhaps you can get in touch with that guy?
<TiMiDo> next yaer
<TiMiDo> *year
<ScottK> For Ubuntu there is no requirement to have your key signed by anyone.
<TiMiDo> oh okey
<persia> But keysigning is fun, and everyone who uses GPG benefits from being in the strong set.
<ScottK> Right.  It's a good thing, but not a required thing.
<TiMiDo> so you do not need you're gpg key sign. to become an ubuntu member?
<ScottK> No.
<TiMiDo> oh okey
<TiMiDo> cool
<ScottK> Some people think this is not a good thing, but that's the current rule.
 * DktrKranz remembers the latest keysigning party: a few GPG keys, tons of wine and food \o/
<TiMiDo> ScottK, and then how do i get my packages. on ubuntu?
<DktrKranz> and sebner has a photo of me doing the keysign party :)
<ScottK> TiMiDo: Initially you have to be sponsored.  I believe that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing will point you in the right direction.
<mok0> ! contribute
<ubottu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<directhex> sigh, why does virtualbox freeze if i click "settings"? i reckon it hates me
<mok0> directhex: why don't you use kvm? Just asking...
<directhex> mok0, workflow. i just want a full i386 intrepid desktop in front of me, and i want it yesterday, without touching any of my other stuff
<mok0> directhex: you can do that with kvm?
<sebner> DktrKranz: if keysign party is a codeword for wine party then yes ^^
<persia> TiMiDo, We don't worry so much about confirming that someone with a given piece of identification controls a given key.  We focus more on the identity of a participant in the community associated with a launchpad account.  When someone does consistently good work over a period of time, the GPG associated with that launchpad account may be used to authenticated packages accepted into the archives.
<mok0> directhex: the virtual team has done lots of work to get kvm working smoothly
<directhex> mok0, clicky gui, co conflicting with things like 3d drivers?
<TiMiDo> okey persia
<mok0> directhex: I've not had any problems with kvm, even running XP
<mok0> directhex: of course you need a dual cpu
<mok0> directhex: a quite new one
<pkern> Wine and cheese...
 * sistpoty|work prefers gerstensaft and sauerbraten :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: sauerbraten? nice game :P
<sistpoty|work> sebner: that's only half of the joke :P
<directhex> mok0, so where does my clicky gui live then?
<mok0> directhex: kvm gives you a window which is effectively the console
<sebner> sistpoty|work: AH, once saw gerstensaft in debian new. What's this again?
<mok0> directhex: the gui would appear inside the window
<sistpoty|work> sebner: usually it's called beer :P (and now idea, never used the package myself)
<sistpoty|work> s/now/no/
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I know what beer is xD
<directhex> mok0, so my clicky gui requires knowing all required qemu command line flags. i seeeeeee. y'know, i don't see this as being remotely comparable to vmware workstation or virtualbox
<mok0> directhex: ok, I don't really know what clicky gui you are talking about
<sebner> sistpoty|work: Gerstensaft is an easy to use graphical oriented frontend for
<sebner>  sendfile(1)
 * sistpoty|work will by a box of easy to use frontends tomorrow after work :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: xD, btw, I've heard about sauerbraten but is it the same as "schweinsbraten"?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: almost, but it's more sour
<sebner> sistpoty|work: kk :)
<directhex> mok0, the ability to create & configure a VM without reading a manpage, zero-config automatic NATted networks, etc
<directhex> mok0, you know, the way we have gnome instead of xterm
<mok0> directhex: ah, you mean something like the virtual machine manager?
<directhex> ehm... yes, that sounds right
<mok0> directhex: package virt-manager
<superm1> i would have never known about virt-manager when installing kvm.  it's not recommends or suggests or anything
<superm1> i would think it should be one of those..
<mok0> superm1: yes
<superm1> perhaps the server team doesn't want it recommends for kvm though?
<superm1> soren, ^?
<mok0> superm1: I've made my VMs manually and have not figured out how to manage them via virt-manager
<mok0> superm1: I suppose it could be done, since all the configs are in an XML file...
<soren> superm1: Definitely not recommends. Suggests... Hmm, perhaps.
<mok0> yay! sbuild overrides distribution in debian/changelog
 * mok0 is pleased
<soren> mok0: Hm?
<cody-somerville> mok0, so does pbuilder
<mok0> soren: I am pleased that I can compile hardy packages with sbuild --dist=intrepid and get the right distribution field in the .changes file
<soren> Oh.
<mok0> Unfortunately, there is no --distribution switch for dpkg-buildpackage
 * mok0 things that we should leave that field alone and let it just be "unstable"
<soren> mok0: -Ddistribution=intrepid
<mok0> s/things/thinKs/
<mok0> soren: huh?
<mok0>  -D     Check build dependencies and conflicts; abort if  unsatisâ
<mok0>               fied.
<soren> mok0: Sorry, that was for dpkg-genchanges.
<mok0> That debian/changelog field does not logically belong there
<mok0> That's why I think we should not use it
<soren> mok0: You don't think the changelog should list which version you're uploading to?
<mok0> soren: exactly
<soren> And why is that, you say?
<mok0> soren: you can have the same version-release package working on all distributions...
<mok0> soren: applications and packages are distribution unaware
<soren> Um.. No, they're not.
<mok0> soren: how so?
<soren> Package relationships in debian/control are very much distribution specific.
<mok0> soren: of course
<soren> ...so is lots of other things.
<mok0> but nothing depends on the _name_ of the distribution
<soren> Paths to certain applications, libraries, names for various things, etc, etc.
<mok0> soren: of course
<soren> No, nothing depends on the name.
<mok0> soren: but if I have a package with a straight C program (say) I could compile that same version on the whole range of distributions
<soren> Very few pacakges would have to be different if Intrepid had been called Itchy, instead, but they certainly depend on what "Intrepid" means.
<soren> ...namely this particular version of Ubuntu.
<mok0> soren: why should I have to add a changelog entry every time I compile? It doesn't make sense
<soren> mok0: Right.
<soren> mok0: That's the difference between upstream projects and packages.
<soren> mok0: Upstream projects are (supposed to be) distro/version agnostic.
<soren> Packages are not. By design.
<mok0> soren: exactly. So while the distribution matters in terms of dependencies etc, the changelog should not contain it
<soren> mok0: So that people installing your update will know what you changed and can figure out if they're interested inyour change.
<soren> mok0: But the changelog is for the package, not the upstream project.
<mok0> soren: that is needed only if I _had_ to make some changes to make the package compile under, intrepid, say
<soren> mok0: What is "that" in "that is needed..."?
<mok0> soren: but then, it may still compile on the older versions
<mok0> soren, f.ex. if my program suddenly doesn't compile under intrepid, I fix that. But if I am smart, the version may still compile on the older ubuntu versions
<soren> mok0: It's not a question of whether it compiles.
<mok0> soren: you have not convinced me
<soren> It's a question of which version of Ubuntu it's meant to integrate with. There's much more to packaging than getting stuff to compile.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<soren> Hey, bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work, soren
<mok0> I understand that. I am only saying that the 3rd item in debian/changelog is irrelevant
<soren> I hear you.
<soren> and I strongly disagree.
<mok0> soren: put it in a separate file if you want
<soren> mok0: Huh?
<soren> mok0: A version->distro mapping file?
<soren> mok0: That's just silly.
<cody-somerville> the distribution field in the changelog is used to determine where you're uploading to
<mok0> soren: if you insist on having the distro info in debian/ it'd be better to have a separate file for that
<soren> mok0: So you want just a file that says "intrepid2?
<soren> mok0: So you want just a file that says "intrepid"?
<mok0> cody-somerville: I know, thats what I am bitching about :-)
<mok0> soren: for example
<soren> But that destroys the history.
<cody-somerville> exactly
<sistpoty|work> mok0: I find it quite useful when reading past changelog entries actually, but apart from that it has little to no meaning
<cody-somerville> It has a lot of meaning!
<soren> debian/changelog tells you which package you changed, when you did it, what the version was, what you changed, and the context in which your found the change to be suitable.
<mok0> anyway, in Debian it's always "unstable"
<cody-somerville> mok0, thats not true!
<soren> The latter (the context) is precisely the version of Ubuntu that particular package version is destined for.
<soren> mok0: This is not Debian.
<cody-somerville> soren, it isn't true anyway
<soren> cody-somerville: Agreed.
<mok0> soren: I have packages with a bunch of changelog entries that says "compiled for gutsy", compiled for hardy, ...
<mok0> cody-somerville: ok that was a bold statement
<soren> mok0: I'm not sure I follow.
<soren> In fact, I'm sure I don't :)
<cody-somerville> mok0, How so? Want me to give you examples of where it says something besides unstable?
<mok0> cody-somerville: I agree with you, I admitted that _my_ conjecture was bold
<cody-somerville> Ah, okay.
<mok0> soren: anyway, I can now override that field with sbuild :-)
<cody-somerville> mok0, there are other setups as well that make the dist field in the changelog more relevant
<mok0> cody-somerville: yes?
<cody-somerville> mok0, and I agree, people should get an archive admin to pocket copy the package instead of uploading a new version for just building in a different suit or pocket or whatever you want to call it
<mok0> Perhaps there should be a "wildcard" allowed
 * soren disagrees (in the general case)
<cody-somerville> I disagree as well
<cody-somerville> Why would you ever use the wildcard?
<soren> cody-somerville: With yourself?
<mok0> cody-somerville: if the package is so simple that it would work on all versions of ubuntu (say)
<cody-somerville> soren, oh, your comment was in response to my comment?
<soren> cody-somerville: Yes.
<cody-somerville> soren, I'm interested to hear why
<soren> cody-somerville: So am I.
<soren> cody-somerville: You're the one proposing a change, so the burden of proof lies with you :)
<mok0> Or, there could be a syntax " >= hardy" f.ex.
<soren> mok0: Nonsense.
<soren> mok0: There's no way you can determine if your package will work with any future version of anything.
<mok0> soren: meaning that this version of this package works with all releases after hardy
<soren> mok0: And how would you know this?
<soren> mok0: You don't know what the future might bring.
 * sistpoty|work has a glassbowl, but won't lend it to anyone *g*
<mok0> soren: of course not. But it will until another entry changes that
<cody-somerville> soren, uploads to just have something built has little value
<cody-somerville> soren, we copy packages from debian to sync them, we don't "upload" them
<cody-somerville> soren, and the same happens when we create a new distroseries
<soren> cody-somerville: No.
<cody-somerville> soren, No what?
<soren> cody-somerville: There's a huge difference between copying something from Debian and copying it between pockets, suites or whatever.
<soren> mok0: I'm inclined to just say that you have to trust me when I say that having the ubuntu version in the changelog is very, very helpful when you're browsing back through the revisions a package has gone through.
<mok0> soren: whatever the difference, the same, unchanged package could work on all known distributions.
<soren> mok0: But I suspect you won't buy into that :)
<cody-somerville> mok0, did you know that you can specify multiple distributions? ;]
<soren> cody-somerville: Uploads to have something built is sensible.
<mok0> soren: I am not forbidding you to write stufff in changelog
<soren> mok0: That's not what I'm talking about.
<soren> mok0: It's silly to put "uploading to gutsy" in the body of the changelog entry.
<sistpoty|work> mok0: I think you're mixing up the problem between to distinct distributions (e.g. debian vs. ubuntu) and (sequential) release series, for which you want separate version numbers (dapper, edgy, feisty, ...)
<soren> mok0: It's valuable information for each and every upload.
<mok0> soren: debian entries all have "unstable". So you dont know which Debian distro a particular version went into
<soren> mok0: This is not Debian.
<cody-somerville> mok0, and your premise is wrong
<mok0> soren: but we use the same changelog  syntax
<mok0> cody-somerville: plz explain
<cody-somerville> mok0, how do you think one uploads to experimental instead of unstable?
<soren> mok0: Debian packages can have non-unstable uploads.
<mok0> cody-somerville: I know that, but you could use a program parameter to tell
<soren> mok0: E.g. the Debian equivalents of SRU's (I forget what they call them).
<soren> mok0: But that throws away the history! That's the point.
<cody-somerville> mok0, a program parameter to tell?
<mok0> cody-somerville: ... to tell the system to upload into experimental
<soren> cody-somerville: Uploads to have something rebuilt against a new toolchian, new libraries requires a new version number, hence a new upload.
<NCommander> soren, proposed-updates
<mok0> cody-somerville: ... and in fact it is in the .changes file
<soren> NCommander: Right, thanks.
<mok0> cody-somerville: so I now figured out how to circumvent the system that I hate :-)
<cody-somerville> Okay, I want to understand your argument better.
<cody-somerville> mok0, why do you hate it?
<mok0> cody-somerville: because I hate to have to create a new changelog entry and a new release string every time I have to rebuild a package for a new distribution, even if the software is unchanged
<mok0> cody-somerville: ... or if I have to backport the exact same package
<soren> mok0: That only works locally. Not in Ubuntu.
<mok0> soren: yes
<soren> mok0: Because you can't build the same version of a package for multiple distros.
<mok0> soren: which in fact is not logical
<soren> mok0: Yes, it is.
<cody-somerville> mok0, that isn't quite true
<soren> mok0: They binaries would all have the same filename.
<soren> mok0: ...and when you're using a pool based repository, that doesn't work out.
<soren> ...and if you're not... well, then you've got an entirely differenct set of problems.
<mok0> soren: yes, but you would never be able to tell if there are significant changes or not
<soren> mok0: Huh?
<sistpoty|work> mok0: from the binary: that will most probably be different than the source... but maybe you could just override the binary version number somehow
<mok0> soren: I may think "hmm this version 1.2-3 is probably newer than this version 1.2-2
<mok0> soren: where in fact they are exactly the same and contain the same files
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, yes
<soren> mok0: They're not going to be identical.
<soren> mok0: They're built with different toolchains.
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, Infact, I think thats the optimal solution.
<mok0> soren: no, they may link with different version of shared libraries
<soren> And the changes are listed in the changelog.
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: only that "somehow" is the vague part of it ;)
<soren> mok0: I don't know if you realise this, but a package built for intrepid automatically lands in Jaunty when Jaunty opens.
<soren> ...so you don't need to rebuild just because there's a new Ubuntu version to build against.
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, it isn't that difficult actually and I'm pretty sure we have plans to provide the functionality in PPAs soon instead of having to reupload with the dist field changed.
<lfaraone> james_w, morgs , It'll be a while before I have a chance (around 1500 EST)
<mok0> soren: the way I see it, a distribution is a set of software packages with a specified version-release string.
<soren> cody-somerville: I thinkn we already support that.
<soren> mok0: Go on.
<mok0> soren: the packages do not _necessarily_ need to care what distribution they are part of.
<cody-somerville> mok0, they don't
<mok0> rephrasing: the _source_ packages
<cody-somerville> mok0, the changelog is for history only
<soren> mok0: Not if you're toying around with them on your local system. If you're building a distribution, it's essential information.
<cody-somerville> mok0, as you have discovered, it is entirely possible to change it
<mok0> soren: but you have that information already; it's part of the specification of the distribution
<cody-somerville> mok0, it is just a matter of convenience that it defaults to whats in the changelog
<soren> mok0: No, no, no, no.
<soren> mok0: It's not.
<soren> mok0: A package's existance in Intrepid does not mean that it was uploadin in that particular context.
<soren> It might have been uploaded back in Warty and never changed since then.
<mok0> soren: right
<mok0> soren: so the _source_ package has not changed
<soren> Nor the binary.
<soren> We dont' rebuild everything whenever we open a new distroseries.
<mok0> soren: Aha
<soren> 15:33:50 < soren> mok0: I don't know if you realise this, but a package built for intrepid automatically lands in Jaunty when Jaunty opens.
<mok0> I thought everything was recompiled using the current toolchain
<soren> No, no.
<soren> We can't.
<laga> why not?
<soren> The binaries would be named the same, and since we're using a pool structure in the repository, that doesn't work.
<soren> Example:
<laga> ah, yes. same problem for the ppa
<cody-somerville> mok0, can you really imagine doing complex merges without the distroseries in the changelog? :P
<geser> and it would be also a fun figuring out the correct build-order and a bigger fun if a central package fails to build
<mok0> cody-somerville: ok, ok. I admit that it's useful when doing merges
<soren> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/o/openhackware/
<soren> That directory contains three versions of openhackware.
<mok0> soren: of course one could also have a separate pool for each distro
<soren> these three versions are the ones that were current in dapper->intrepid
<soren> mok0: That would make the storage requirements explode.
<soren> 15:31:04 < soren> mok0: ...and when you're using a pool based repository, that doesn't work out.
<soren> 15:31:16 < soren> ...and if you're not... well, then you've got an entirely differenct set of problems.
<soren> That's the gist of the different set of problems.
<cody-somerville> mok0, whole point of using a pool is so that you only need to retain one copy of the file
<mok0> cody-somerville: ok, I understand
<mok0> soren: so what is the problem building binary .debs with the same version-release string for different distros?
<cody-somerville> there is none
<soren> mok0: None if you're playing around with it locally.
<cody-somerville> (if I understand the question correctly)
<soren> (same disclaimer)
<soren> :)
<soren> mok0: Could you elaborate a bit
<soren> ?
<cody-somerville> soren, so I still stand that we shouldn't do uploads to have something rebuilt in a different distroseries as long as the binary version is automatically mangled.
<mok0> soren: you said that it was not possible to rebuild all packages using the new toolchain
<soren> mok0: Right.
<soren> mok0: Because the resulting binaries would have the same filenames as the old ones.
<mok0> soren: we discussed the pool structure, and you showed us a source package
<mok0> soren: sure they have the same name, but they live in another directory
<mok0> soren: or could live
<mok0> soren: are you saying that the same pool structure exists for binary packages?
<cody-somerville> soren, source packages live side by side with binary packages
<cody-somerville> er
<cody-somerville> mok0,
<mok0> cody-somerville: makes no sense to me
<cody-somerville> mok0, why?
<mok0> cody-somerville: because I would like to recompile the whole caboodle of packages using the current toolchain
<mok0> and libraries
<cody-somerville> mok0, How is it sane to lie and say "this rebuilt version of this package is the same as whats already there so I'll just replace the file in the archive"?
<mok0> cody-somerville: I actually assumed the core-devs were doing that
<soren> mok0: Sorry, I chose a bad example.
<soren> mok0: The binaries live in the same directory as the source package.
<mok0> soren: ok, so I understand why it wont work, but I don't see why it could not be made to work
<soren> mok0: No, we never do that. We couldn't even if we wanted to.
<cody-somerville> mok0, because when you rebuild, the package changes
<cody-somerville> You can't say its the same version
<cody-somerville> because it is not
<mok0> cody-somerville: yes, the _binary_ package
<cody-somerville> mok0, right binary package versions don't have to match source package version
<mok0> However, the convention is that the binary package inherits the version-release string of the source package
<mok0> ... and changelog documents (should) changes to the source packages
<cody-somerville> I agree completely.
<cody-somerville> Its just easier to change the source package and re-upload at this time.
<mok0> cody-somerville: ... because of the shortcomings of the pool structure???
<cody-somerville> no
<slytheri1> james_w: ping
<james_w> hi slytheri1
<soren> mok0: Ok, answer this:
<cody-somerville> mok0, because there is no interface for you or me to make changes to the archive except via an upload at this time.
<soren> Why would you want to rebuild against the new toolchain?
<mok0> OK, none of you have convinced me why it is not reasonable to have the same version-release in several distribution.
<slytheri1> james_w: Do you plan to take care of fop bug today? If you are too busy then I will ask persia or geser.
<james_w> slytheri1: what was the fop bug?
<cody-somerville> mok0, its already possible and it is!! :P
 * mok0 's head just exploded
<slytheri1> james_w: bug #268930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268930 in fop "FOP fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.w3c.dom.svg.SVGDocument" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268930
<cody-somerville> mok0, we have packages in Intrepid with the "version-release string" of unstable, experimental, hardy, gutsy, etc. etc. etc.
<sebner> ScottK: around?
<james_w> slytheri1: best ask someone else.
<mok0> cody-somerville: great. That's what I want. So does this package have N senseless changelog entries?
<ScottK> 'ish.
<soren> mok0: Why would you want to rebuild the package against a new toolchain? Because you want your package to work in a new context? That's what that field is meant to describe!
<Laney> sistpoty|work: Hey, do you care about any uncommon prog langs besides GHC? I'm thinking about trying to get agda into Jaunty and was wondering if you'd take any interest in that?
<mok0> soren: perhaps the compile optimizes better so the application runs 200% faster
<Laney> ...
<Laney> What a badly timed netsplit
<cody-somerville> mok0, no, they're copied.
<soren> mok0: And how is that not a change that is relevant to docuemtn in your changelog?
 * ScottK grabs a Gentoo Penguin and smacks mok0 with it.
<mok0> soren: because you are using the same source package
<soren> mok0: So?
<sebner> ScottK: you remember Ari, who requestet the amule update?
<mok0> soren: you just give sbuild a different switch
<soren> mok0: You are changing something.
<ScottK> sebner: Yeah.
<soren> mok0: Why would you not let your users know what you changed?
<cody-somerville> soren, rebuilding the source package isn't changing the source package
<mok0> soren: nothing has changed in the source package
<soren> cody-somerville: I didn't say that.
<soren> mok0: You are changing the environment!
<cody-somerville> soren, recompiling it with different tools shouldn't see someone change the changelog of the source package
<sebner> ScottK: I just got a mail from him. He also filed a bug for updating "kadu" but no one is responding and so he asks me if I can update it. would need a FFe, is a sync .. What do you think?
<mok0> soren: ... which is why the binary package lives in a directory specific to the new distribution
<soren> mok0: If I put sugar in my coffee, I might not be changing the sugar, but I'm sure as heck changing something.
<mok0> soren: but the version-release string tells you it was build from the same source package
<ScottK> sebner: IIRC amule was fairly broken.  How's Kadu these days?
<soren> mok0: Think of the consequences:
<soren> mok0: a) Much higher storage requirements for mirrors
<sebner> ScottK: no open bugs (besides the please update bug)
<soren> mok0: b) Upgrades would mean downloading and installing new versions of *EVERYTHING* regardless of anything changed for them or not.
<sistpoty|work> Laney: well, I would have some interest, but not enough spare time :(
<ScottK> sebner: Absent some compelling rationale, no.  Go find and RC bug to fix.
<Laney> sistpoty|work: I'm trying to pre-solicit a reviewer is all :)
<soren> mok0: What is this "version-release string" you keep referring to?
<sistpoty|work> Laney: heh... I guess I'll be up for a review then ;)
<mok0> soren: package_1.0-1
<ScottK> soren: OTOH, we have packages that have not been touched in the archive since Edgy and some of them can't even be built now.
<Laney> \o
<DktrKranz> sebner: a user wants a SRU for your amule upload, mind having a look at it? ;)
<mok0> soren: version relates to upstream, release to packaging
<sebner> DktrKranz: *hrhr*
<soren> cody-somerville: If you dont' change the changelog, who will a user know if he's interested in the new binary version he's about to download?
<soren> ScottK: I'm missing your point.
<sebner> ScottK: ok I write him ... /me also isn't able to read the polish Changelog to see if something important was fixed ...
<ScottK> In Debian, don't binNMU's have some automagic binary only changelog futzing.
 * DktrKranz is not comfortable with version bumps in SRUs, but that's the fact now
<soren> cody-somerville: Sorry, I meant "how will a user know..."
<cody-somerville> soren, automagic binary only changelog futzing as ScottK says Debian might do
<ScottK> soren: I agree rebuilding everything just for fun is excessive, but OTOH we have stuff that could use it that isn't rebuilt.  It's not always clear one way or the other.
<cody-somerville> soren, because if I take that pacakge and recompile it myself... your changelog is only confusing and irrelevant
<soren> cody-somerville: And what will happen to that with the next source upload? It will disappear, and the hsitory is borken.
<cody-somerville> soren, no because you haven't changed the source package
<ScottK> The source history isn't broken.
<mok0> soren: but compile history doesn't belong in the source package
<sebner> DktrKranz: SRU, backport, Security update? what about backporting?
<sistpoty|work> actually in an ideal world, we'd rebuild everything until it doesn't change a single bit (and other distributions did this in the past, including working around timestamps and stuff)... but that would just take too long
<soren> cody-somerville: I've changed the context in which it's meant to be used.
<mok0> soren: it logically belongs with the distribution
<soren> mok0: where would you put it instead?
<cody-somerville> soren, then you're documenting a change in debian/control
<soren> mok0: The source package is the only source of information.
<DktrKranz> sebner: my preferred choice, unless real fixes for ubuntu bugs
<sebner> DktrKranz: /me checks
<mok0> soren: I don't know where, because there is no convention, but compile history doesn't belong with the source package.
<soren> mok0: debian/changelog is the distribution's.
<cody-somerville> soren, Unless you force the source package to be built with the new version of gcc for example then your rebuild with the new version of gcc is irrelevant to the source package
<sebner> DktrKranz: real fixes for ubuntu bugs? I thought amule was pretty b0rken?
<mok0> soren: ok, so this is where we don't agree
<ScottK> sebner: I think maybe POX knows about Polish IM stuff.  Maybe he'd offer an opinion.
<mok0> soren: that is not clear at all
<soren> mok0: You need to quit thinking of source packages as a special sort of upstream project. It's not.
<slytheri1> james_w: there? did you get the number?
<sebner> ScottK: worth that whole stuff? 1 week before release, no open bugs in ubuntu ,....
<DktrKranz> sebner: if it's br0ken = SRU is fine
<mok0> soren: I do think of them as independent objects with some properties
<soren> cody-somerville: No, it's not.
<DktrKranz> sebner: if it's cool = backport is fine
<james_w> slytheri1: yeah, I said you would be best of finding someone else
<sebner> DktrKranz: let me check =)
<slytheri1> james_w: didn't see that.
<mok0> soren: I think of the distribution as composed of a set of packages
<soren> cody-somerville: You're not uploading it blindly. You're uploading it with the specific purpose of getting it rebuilt against a new toolchain. The package itself holds its own history. It's where you're supposed to document these things.
<slytheri1> persia: geser: Can anyone of you sponsor a debdiff to fop?
<sebner> ScottK: of course I'd do the FFe but doesn't seem that imoprtant to me
<ScottK> sebner: Right.  I just suspect POX could tell us if it's important.  I know he sponsors some related pacakges in Debian.
<cody-somerville> soren, we only upload because that is the only way for us to do a rebuild
<soren> mok0: It *is* clear! Source packages is the only thing we as developers can change to make changes to Ubuntu.
<sebner> ScottK: well he is afk currently. should I try to find another polish speaker?
<ScottK> Sure.
 * soren needs to go to dinner
<sebner> ScottK: kk
<ScottK> But a few hours won't matter.
<mok0> soren: errh, yes, but that is not true for packages in universe
<mok0> soren: certain files and settings do matter for the distribution, and for convienience those are packaged too
<mok0> soren: ... and drivers etc
<sebner> ScottK: sure but he is away since 67 hours
<cody-somerville> To conclude, mok0: distribution field *is* useful. Do you see why now?
<mok0> cody-somerville: I see that the information is useful, yes, but I don't agree on its placement in changelog
<cody-somerville> mok0, why?
<cody-somerville> mok0, the changelog describes uploads
<cody-somerville> mok0, it lets us know the origin of changes
<mok0> cody-somerville: in my mind it describes changes to the packaging
<cody-somerville> mok0, yes
<cody-somerville> mok0, and the distribution field describes the origin of the change
<mok0> cody-somerville: not whether the package is now compiled for some random distro
<cody-somerville> mok0, it has nothing to do with compiling
<mok0> cody-somerville: it has nothing to do with uploading
<cody-somerville> mok0, you're wrong
<mok0> cody-somerville: the .changes file has something to do with uploading
<cody-somerville> mok0, okay, fine, lets argue over semantics
<mok0> cody-somerville: which is why I am happy since I can sed replace in there :-)
<geser> slytheri1: hi, I was busy the last days/week and didn't follow development much so I'd need to figure out what's the current state for uploads
 * sebner winks geser =)
<cody-somerville> mok0, the changelog contains more than just the last changelog entry
<slytheri1> geser: ok. It is a small bug fix. Let me know when you have time. I may be offline for an hour in some time. But I will be back later.
<mok0> cody-somerville: so seeing that I can't convince anyone about my brilliant suggestion, I can now live with it... :-P
<cody-somerville> mok0, you even said yourself that it is helpful when doing merges
<cody-somerville> mok0, do you suggest to have another file that describes the package version and where the change was made? What benefit does that provide?
<sebner> ScottK: wth? They want me to pay for it xD bad boys
<mok0> cody-somerville: http://pastebin.com/f65e632b5
<mok0> cody-somerville: that is what I find annoying
<cody-somerville> mok0, yes but that doesn't make the distribution field any less useful
<cody-somerville> mok0, people are just abusing the system
<mok0> cody-somerville: What I want is not to need to make dumb changelog entries like that
<POX> ScottK: what package? kadu?
<mok0> cody-somerville: and I figured out how to do it. I can live with the distro field if it actually matters to the source package
<cody-somerville> \o/
<mok0> cody-somerville: :-)
<cody-somerville> wait a tick
<cody-somerville> is that an actual changelog?
<sebner> ScottK: http://tinyurl.com/67t7p3
<mok0> cody-somerville: yeah, a local package
<cody-somerville> okay, few
<cody-somerville> mok0, oh yea!
<cody-somerville> for local packages
<cody-somerville> no need to change the source package at all
<mok0> cody-somerville: contains non-distributable binary
<cody-somerville> ever
 * geser waves back to sebner
<mok0> cody-somerville: right
<sebner> POX: ha! you are here xD
<POX> I sponsored kadu, yes
<sebner> POX: http://tinyurl.com/67t7p3  <--- not important enough for a FFe, right?
<ScottK> POX: We're a few days before release, so the question is, should we jam the update into Intrepid or not?
<POX> 0.6.0.1-1 to 0.6.0.2-2, right?
<ScottK> sebner: ^^?
<sebner> POX: yep
<sebner> ScottK: hmm???
<sebner> At least it's building without problems
<POX> I don't use kadu, I use ekg2; /me is reading the changelog
<sebner> As far as I understand only small and minor bugfixes/improvements
<POX> I can also ask Debian maintainer (he's one of the upstream's)
 * sistpoty|work decides to go home... cya
<sebner> POX: well, but you can read the Changelog ^^
<POX> looks like one crash is fixed (if one rejects incoming file transfer)
 * sebner -> dinner
<POX> I don't know how often it happens, though
<sebner> bbl
<POX> I'll mail Patryk (kadu maintainer)
<ScottK> POX: Thanks.
<POX> sebner: (kadu) btw, it's new upstream release, but if that's why you need FFe, I'd say go ahead (new features in kadu are introduced in 0.6.5, 0.6.0.x are just bug fix releases)
<POX> I asked Patryk to add a comment in this bug if fixes are critical
<sebner> POX: thx
<highvoltage> any way I could get my mouse and keyboard working again on intrepid?
<joaopinto> highvoltage, did your kbd and mouse stopped working after a new install or an upgrade ?
<highvoltage> joaopinto: upgrade
<highvoltage> on two different machines :/
<joaopinto> highvoltage, lets continue on #ubuntu+1
<highvoltage> ok
<chrisccoulson> Dear motu-release, I am currently looking at bug 287332 against evolution-sharp. it seems that the current version does not support our current version of evolution-data-server (it won't even build against it now), which has broken beagle. there is a new upstream version (0.18) which supports the new version of e-d-s. would there be any chance to get it in to intrepid at this late stage, bearing in mind that our current version doesn
<chrisccoulson> i don't mind working on packaging it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287332 in evolution-sharp "beagle-backend-evolution cant find libedataserver-1.2.so.9" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287332
<RainCT> chrisccoulson: your message got cut at "our current version doesn"
<chrisccoulson> 't work at all
<chrisccoulson> it didn't cut much off;)
<RainCT> chrisccoulson: and anyway, I guess I'd be better if you wrote this on the bug and subscribed motu-release to it
<RainCT> heh
<chrisccoulson> perhaps. i just thought the response might be slightly quicker in here;)
<RainCT> ScottK: ^
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: Did you text your wxwidgets fixes with other packages to make sure you didn't break the other rdepends?
<marcin_ant> Hi all
<ScottK-laptop> Hello
<marcin_ant> I got a question about packaging
<RainCT> Hi marcin_ant, just ask
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: I'm not sure we wouldn't be better off to hold this for an SRU where it can get more testing in proposed.
<dfiloni> ScottK-laptop: I've tested it with amule
<dfiloni> ScottK-laptop: SRU?
<ScottK-laptop> Post release update
<marcin_ant> I prepared a bunch of packages that are in debian and ubuntu repository (universe) but they are maintained (kind of) by someone
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: How about pgadmin?
<ScottK-laptop> ...3
<dfiloni> ScottK-laptop: uhm, I don't know, wx is a very big library so I think you are right
<marcin_ant> I changed a lot - new upstream versions, new debian policy version, switched to cdbs etc.
<dfiloni> I haven't tested pgadmin
<ScottK-laptop> marcin_ant: Totally reworking the packaging without good reason is frowned upon.
<marcin_ant> and I would like to know if is there some _userfriendly_ step by step manual what should I do with these packages and how to contribute to community?
<ScottK-laptop> marcin_ant: I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing will point you in the right direction.
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: I've asked to have the upload rejected.
<RainCT> marcin_ant: I think the best in this case would be to get in touch with the Debian Maintainer and tell him about your changes
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: It's rejected.  Once Intrepid is released, see about getting it in an SRU.
<dfiloni> ScottK-laptop: I'm a member of motu-sru, so I know about the procedure :)
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  Great.
<RainCT> marcin_ant: .. to see if you can get him to take over all or part of the changes, and tell him that in case he wants a co-maintainer you'd be interested (that last part only if you are interested, of course :))
<ScottK-laptop> dfiloni: So you can even predict it's likely to get approved... ;-)
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: you know - this wiki page is pretty good but doesn't answer few simple questions: what should I put into Maintainer field of 'control' file?
<marcin_ant> should I keep original maintainer there?
<RainCT> marcin_ant: run update-maintainer and see what it does :)
<ScottK-laptop> marcin_ant: Or look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<RainCT> marcin_ant: if the package is in main/restricted the maintainer should be Core Devs and if it's in universe/multiverse MOTU, and the Debian Maintainer is moved to an XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: It's better to understand the policy than just blindly run scripts.
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop: sure
<marcin_ant> and what about copyright file? I should be something like "This package was debianized.... bla bla"
<ScottK-laptop> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<ScottK-laptop> marcin_ant: ^^
<marcin_ant> but these packages doesn't have this section just simple license copy/paste - so what then? should I put original maintainer there or put my name?
<ScottK-laptop> If you're building on someone else's packages, don't change that bit.
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: but copyright file is not something like in debian maint-guide - generated by dh_make - it's just license copy/paste
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: should I change this to something like in maint-guide or not?
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  Then that's a packaging bug that should be fixed
<ScottK-laptop> Yes
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: ok - so, question is: how should it be fixed? Should I put original maintainer credentials in "This package was debianized... " ? Or should I put my credentials there?
<ScottK-laptop> The original one
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: ok
<ScottK-laptop> They debianized it, even if they didn't do a greaet job
<ScottK-laptop> greaet/great
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: ok I understand, but in Maintainer field...
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: I should do this: If the package is in universe or multiverse, the Maintainer field will be set to Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>???
<ScottK-laptop> Yes
<slytherin> geser: back
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: and my name + mail in changelog - right?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes
<marcin_ant> ScottK-laptop: thank you :)
<ScottK-laptop> But the advice you got earlier to work with the Debian Maintainer(s) to improve the packages in Debian is good advice.
<marcin_ant> ok I will try, but these packages are pretty old - last changes in Feb 2007 - so I will try to mail to maintainer but not sure if he will reply
<ScottK-laptop> You might offer to assist in maintaining them or take them over if you're interested in them.
<marcin_ant> I also wanted to join to Debian/Ubuntu Zope Team on launchpad - but no response for few days at all (my packages are for zope 2.8)
<leonel> ScottK-laptop:    can I close  this 2 :      bug 238547  and   bug 254586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238547 in cherokee "Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file /usr/share/cherokee/admin/PageVServer.py" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254586 in cherokee "please sync package cherokee from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254586
<geser> slytherin: if I'm not mistaken you need an ACK from motu-release for fop (every upload needs an ACK since today)
<ScottK-laptop> leonel: I'd say yes.
<ScottK-laptop> geser and slytherin: Technically not until after the RC is released, but we have to justify them all to ubuntu-release, so if it's not immediately obvious why we need it, please discuss
<geser> ScottK-laptop: I guess it would be bug 268930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268930 in fop "FOP fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.w3c.dom.svg.SVGDocument" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268930
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: Go for it
<ScottK-laptop> or geser ...
<geser> slytherin: have you tested that the change fixes that bug?
<RainCT> cody-somerville: can you join #ubuntuwire please?
<alex-weej__> anyone know why Gens isn't in universe?
<alex-weej__> the sega genesis emulator
<slytherin> alex-weej__: because nobody packaged it.
<iulian> It's bug #107927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 107927 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gens" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107927
<geser> slytherin: have you tested that the change fixes that bug?
<alex-weej> how are Forum users arsing around packaging and uploading to zshare without realising how to do it right?
<alex-weej> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=290008
<slytherin> geser: personally no. If you want me to test then you will have to wait one day.
<geser> slytherin: at this time of release I'd prefer a test (although the changes look sane), just to be sure
<slytherin1> geser: sorry, my laptop just kept freezing. I am back to my PC now.
<slytherin1> geser: about fop bug, there is no test data available so I will have to create some and then test it.
<savvas0> hi, is there a reason why menu is not included as an ubuntu-desktop dependency?
<ScottK> savvas0: I'm guessing yes, but #ubuntu-desktop would be a better place to ask.
<savvas0> thanks
<tbielawa> hey all. can some one point me at a package that uses CDBS and creates multiple binary targets, please?
<tbielawa> @topic
<ubottu> Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
<RainCT> tbielawa: open-invaders, for instance
<tbielawa> RainCT, thanks a bunch. I appreciate it
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-24
<Woody86> Hello everybody :D
<csilk> Hello
<coppro> this makes no sense
<coppro> my intrepid chroot has no upgrades in 4 months?
<crimsun> coppro: ensure that it actually has intrepid for apt's configuration.
<coppro> thx
<cody-somerville> ScottK, ping
<philsf> how can I recompile evince with libpoppler3, instead of libpoppler2, assuming I already have all -dev deps installed? what do I need to change in evince's /debian/* to make it use the newer libs?
<RAOF_> philsf: Nothing.
<nixternal> ya, libpoppler-dev == libpoppler3
<StevenK> philsf: It already does, in Intrepid
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Pong
<cody-somerville> Incase StevenK gets too busy, can you upload https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/284857 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 284857 in abiword "Abiword crashes on using "Create and modify styles..." from the format menu" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Nearly done
<StevenK> As in dput'ing now
<cody-somerville> StevenK, \o/
<StevenK> cody-somerville: Looking
<ScottK> Ah.  So I'm not needed.
<philsf> StevenK: I want to do this in hardy, I should have said that
<philsf> I already backported libpoppler from intrepid
<StevenK> Eek
 * ScottK notes that Universe is still open for bug fixes.
<mneptok> ScottK: that's why i still attend church.
<philsf> about version number: is the string "ubuntu1.0" considered greater than "ubuntu1"?
<philsf> make that ubuntu1.0~philsf
<ScottK> Yes.
<Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% dpkg --compare-versions ubuntu1.0 gt ubuntu1 && echo true
<Hobbsee> true
<philsf> I just noted to my shame that ubuntu1~philsf is actually *less* than ubuntu1. what should I use if I want to keep the package installed, and be able to upgrade if a new version comes out?
<philsf> 1.0~philsf is enough?
<Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~% dpkg --compare-versions ubuntu1.0~philsf lt ubuntu1 && echo true                                     2:16PM
<Hobbsee> sarah@neptune:~%
<Hobbsee> so, ubuntu1.0~philsf is greater than ubuntu1
<philsf> thanks, Hobbsee and ScottK
<philsf> dpkg-buildpackage wants to make clean, how can I keep the compilation and just rebuild the package? is it a one-liner?
<philsf> just to change the version, that is
<RAOF> philsf: "man dpkg-buildpackage" will help you; the particular switch you're looking for is '-nc'
<StevenK> RAOF: I had a Do question
<StevenK> RAOF: Is there a "I don't like this match, give me the next one" button?
<ScottK> I don't have time to investigate in detail, but it looks like the twiki update in Bug 261962 is one we'd want for the release.  Can someone bend it into shape and upload it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261962 in twiki "Merge twiki 4.1.2-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261962
<RAOF> StevenK: Yes.  "Down".
<RAOF> StevenK: That'll bring up the results list.  Does this mean I should be setting "always show results list" by default?
<StevenK> RAOF: Hmmm. I don't mind no results list, but it'd be nice to be able to tell Do, "No, you guessed wrong."
<RAOF> No, I mean the fact that you need to ask the question.
<StevenK> Oh, I found down by myself, I was curious if there was a better way
<StevenK> RAOF: I wonder if the Firefox plugin can deal with bookmarks that contain '%s'
<RAOF> Another button that does the same thing as 'down'?
<StevenK> RAOF: No, a button that skips to the second item on the results list
<StevenK> s/second/next/
<RAOF> Ah.  Without bringing up the results list?
<StevenK> Right
<RAOF> No, I don't think so.  I'm not totally sold on such a button being a good idea, either.
<RAOF> And I don't know about the firefox plugin; possibly?
<StevenK> Hmph. The launchpad plugin needs hooks for Package bugs and Package overview
<RAOF> Correct.
<RAOF> Mmm.  With the launchpad API release, it might also be nice to add some bugs to Do's universe.
<StevenK> Is there any API bindings to C# ?
<RAOF> Probably not.  Is there a C api?
<RAOF> It's only python as of now, isn't it.
<RAOF> Hm.  Seems like writing C# bindings wouldn't be unassailably hard.
<ajmitch> certainly nto
<ajmitch> it should only take you a few hours, I'm sure :)
<ScottK> persia: I think some java'ish person should look into merging kaffe.
 * Woody86 is away: I'll brb, PM me or say my name
 * Woody86 is back (gone 00:00:23)
<didrocks> morning
<iulian> G'morning.
<POX> sebner: Patryk replied to #268692, he also asked other upstream developers to add a comment
<sebner> POX: I see. thx for your help. I'll talk to ScottK and then we decide if I'll prepare a FFe or not =)
<DktrKranz> sebner: prepare, just to spend some time :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: lol xD
<sebner> DktrKranz: no time now, soon I gonna cut my hair xD xD xD
<DktrKranz> sebner: are you a grunge guitarist?
<DktrKranz> or jono's fan?
<sebner> DktrKranz: of course the second
<dholbach> take "before" and "after" pictures
<dholbach> you're going to cut it yourself? ;-)
<sebner> dholbach: Not even if I'm drunken xD
 * DktrKranz is scared about sebner's "before"
<dholbach> hehe
<sebner> But it's a pleasure to see how folks are interested in my hair xD xD xD
<sebner> DktrKranz: !?!?!
<DktrKranz> sebner: being a jono fan, your hair should be looooong
<sebner> DktrKranz: jono fan != metal fan
<DktrKranz> ah
<sebner> dholbach: btw, nearly forgot to tell you that your newest motu vid is great *as usual*  ^^
<dholbach> gracias :-)
<DktrKranz> newest motu vid? I missed it
<sebner> DktrKranz: bah, damn you :P
 * DktrKranz hides
 * DktrKranz is planning two mass-hugs against dholbach next UDS
<dholbach> hehe :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: finally you will participate?
<DktrKranz> sebner: I'm planning, I'm not doing it ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: tz tz tz
<DktrKranz> but I'll be virtually there
<sebner> ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner: it you convince my belgian boss to leave me for a week, I could partecipate
<DktrKranz> but I guess you'll fail in that
<sebner> DktrKranz: you have a right for holidays
<sebner> but I forgot
<sebner> Italy is different :P
<sebner> however
<sebner> off
<sebner> HAIR cutting :D
<DktrKranz> no... my company is different ;(
 * pochu should cut his hair too...
<pochu> sebner: know what? we can start a MEME!! ;-)
<DktrKranz> pochu: I plan to cut it tomorrow! :)
<pochu> DktrKranz: great, so we are now three! :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<pochu> DktrKranz: we can create a launchpad team too :P
<DktrKranz> ~haircutters
<sebner> pochu: rofl
<sebner> what a shit. Also a sebner needs a appointment :\
<sebner> !ohmy | sebner
<ubottu> sebner, please see my private message
<sebner> :)
<DktrKranz> sebner: auto-oh,ty
<sebner>  ^ ^
<bobbo> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> bobbo: pong
<bobbo> dholbach: hey, could you add me to the 5-a-day team on Launchpad? It says only admins can do it
<dholbach> bobbo: admins can do what?
<bobbo> dholbach: ah doesnt matter, just read your blog post, sorry for bothering you :)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> no worries
<DktrKranz> bobbo: hi, I didn't find time to review your debomatic branch yet :(
<DktrKranz> after the release, probably I'll have time
<bobbo> DktrKranz: ah no problem, i think there are still a couple of bugs i need to iron out, but I'll have another look later
<dholbach> debomatic?
<DktrKranz> dholbach: my project to create a simple build machine for debian packages, similar to PPA (but not so complex). It's in the archives.
<dholbach> ah ok
<DktrKranz> If REVU wants some build infrastructure, and PPA is not feasible, I'll propose it
<persia> DktrKranz, Problem with build infrastructure for REVU is more about processing power than PPA.
<persia> Especially considering how many first draft packages have odd bits in them that could break a buildd.
<DktrKranz> good point.
<DktrKranz> REVU isn't something to replace PPA
<directhex> hang on, superm1 works at dell?
<crimsun> yes
<laga> yes
<directhex> i never knew that O_o
<Hobbsee> canonical and dellhavehired all the cool people by now.
<Hobbsee> most of the people here seem to work for one or the other,except a few misfits.
 * crimsun <-- misfit
 * Hobbsee is also a misfit.
 * directhex is more of a freak than a misfit
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ahoi =)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<iulian> Hello sistpoty
<sistpoty|work> hi iulian
<Laibsch> Hi, can somebody please archive http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gourmet ?
<Laibsch> Thanks
<persia> Laibsch, archiving
<Laibsch> Thanks
<persia> I'm about to start an RCbugs chase.  kaffe was mentioned previously.  Anything else anyone things I'm interested in?
<DktrKranz> any free sponsor willing to review bug 268692? FFe have been just approved, might be a good candidate for the last sync round.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268692 in kadu "[intrepid] [FFe] Please update (sync) kadu to version 0.6.0.2 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268692
<RainCT> uhmm.. /me is confused about bug #261935. Wrong triaging?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261935 in libxrandr "Please sync libxrandr 2:1.2.3-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261935
<sistpoty|work> RainCT: looks like it... I've marked it as fixed, since the new version is already in
<RainCT> sistpoty|work: I just did the same :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
<RainCT> if it was just a random guy it wouldn't wonder me, but seeing that Bruce is a MOTU and Canonical employee.. he must have been multitasking :P
<StevenK> Bruce? Bryce?
<RainCT> erm.. right, I have already closed the report and wrote what I remembered :P
<sistpoty|work> RainCT: most probably (wasn't there a new xorg-server today? *g*)
 * RainCT full-upgrades.. yep, there's a new one out
<iulian> Ohh, right. Forgot to run the upgrade here.
 * iulian presses the upgrade button now.
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<iulian> 177 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 16 not upgraded.
<iulian> Yikes
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work, iulian
 * iulian fetched 155MB in just 43s.
<iulian> Not bad.
<persia> Is that a proper network connection, or just precaching?
<RainCT> iulian: bah, I still have to wait for over 1 hour XD
<iulian> persia: It's a proper one.
<persia> iulian, Nice!
 * ScottK notes that the buildd's are mostly idle waiting for your last minute bug fixes.
 * persia needs a faster local build farm
<persia> I'm also waiting on the rumoured kernel upload to rebuild the -rt kernel :(
<iulian> RainCT: Just a couple of minutes more and I'm all done here :-)
 * iulian -> shopping
<ScottK> dfiloni: You can go ahead and upload your wxwidgets2.8 fix to intrepid-proposed.  It'll sit there until release.
<dfiloni> ScottK: the version number as a normal SRU, right?
<ScottK> dfiloni: Yes.
<dfiloni> ok
<dfiloni> ScottK: thanks
<slytherin> persia: Do you have any docbook file containing SVG image lying around? I have not yet found time to verify fop fix as I promised geser yesterday.
<persia> slytherin, I don't.  Sorry.  I do have the fop bug open for tracking, in case you found time whilst geser was alseep.
<slytherin> persia: I guess I will find some time tonight. Once done I will probably ping geser
<persia> OK.
<persia> slytherin, Also, did Koon already talk to you about OpenWeek?
<slytherin> persia: No. I haven't been on IRC much in last few days. I will talk to him on weekend.
<persia> slytherin, Cool.  Thanks.
<slytherin> persia: It is in November first week right?
<persia> I think so.
<slytherin> superm1: in case you haven't already checked it, there was a bug about missing netlink plugin in bluez.
<csilk> If a developer only has copyright in a small number of files in a new packagee would I list this person in the same section as th emain copyright holder or would I do it in another section in the COPYRIGHT file?
<RainCT> csilk: if those files are part of the main program, then in the same section
<csilk> Thanks
<RainCT> csilk: if it's a bundled library/file/whatever then in a separate one
<persia> Well, it depends
<RainCT> yw
<csilk> persia,  the secondary person has joint copyright (with main (C) holder) on 5 .c files
<csilk> RainCT, ^
<persia> If the files are included in the main program, but logically distinct, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html seems to recommend a separate section.
<persia> Oh, if it's joint copyright, and the same license, just put them in the main section.
<RainCT> persia: do you have some example of "logically distinct" (beside bundled stuff)?
<csilk> Ok, thanks for the link aswell, I'll save that as a reference
<persia> RainCT, "logically distinct" could be bundled stuff, plugins, the result of a fork, an alternate UI added, or any of a number of other things.  Basically, some separable chunk of stuff that someone contributed independently of working on the main tree.
<csilk> persia, gerping the dirs I just found a library written by a 3rd party
<csilk> I guess that would go in a seperate section
<csilk> it's doesnt specifiy a license, it justs (public domain, use whatever license you like) ?
<csilk> *greping
<persia> csilk, That's an example of something that gets it's own section.
<csilk> Would I just note that i's under the "public domain" license or what?
<csilk> Technically public domain isn't alicense
<persia> You'd report that it was "in the public domain".
<persia> Citing the PD grant and author is probably useful, as in some places authors can't grant stuff to the public, but some of those places recognise intent.
<csilk> PD grant?
<persia> *Don't* write "Copyright $(author)" anywhere, as it's not, if there was a public domain grant (except in jurisdictions where there is no public domain, or where authors cannot grant to the public domain).
<csilk> Ok
<csilk> I'll just list the authors and note that the code is in the public domain but I won't attribute copyright
<persia> wikipedia has a reasonably good article, although my browser just crashed, eating the URL I wanted to paste.
 * sistpoty|work calls it a day... cya
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ciao
<persia> Nothing in the public domain is copyrighted : that's the point.  Copyright either isn't claimed initially, isn't valid, is expired, or was explicity discarded.
<csilk> Thanks for the help persia, just one further question, this app also contains the XMMS media player (integrated) the author of the app modifed xmms slightly so it would integrate with his code better, after listing the upstream authors of xmms should I put something like *Modified by AUTHOR * ?
<persia> Yes, but we don't like to accept packages like that, because it's code duplication, and hurts security.  In the special case of xmms also please try to avoid linking against GTK+1.2.  Given the modifications, and that xmms has been dropped from the repo, it might not be as much of a concern.
<persia> Note that you probably want to make sure upstream is maintaining *all* of the xmms fork, as upstream xmms is inactive, so there could be all sorts of bugs,.
<csilk> persia, upstream isn't maintaining xmms other than making slight intergration modifications. also, when you say linking against GTK+1.2 what exactly do you mean?
<persia> The xmms interface was GTK+ version 1.  Most of the GTK apps in Ubuntu now use GTK+ version 2.  Version 1 doesn't support niceties such as UTF-8, or current themes.  We'd like to drop it from the archive, but it's stuck by a couple things.
<persia> Anything new that uses it is likely to be at risk.
<csilk> I'll check it's gtk dependencies
 * slytherin quickly searches for rdepends on gtk 1.2
<Buiss> I am interested in Linux development and use ubuntu since 7.04. how can i find a mentor..
<persia> Buiss, What do you seek to do?
<Buiss> Kernel Module programming and device drivers
<Buiss> especially
<persia> Have you worked with kernel code before?
<Buiss> i have written certain modules for my education purposes. Not much. I want to learn more on device drivers also
<Buiss> I have studied DD basics
<csilk> persia,  looks like it doesnt use the xmms UI it just takes some of the core codebase. This app required gtk-2.6 +
<csilk> *requires
<persia> csilk, Excellent news.  Just be careful with copyright.
<csilk> persia,  yeah will do.   Looks like the only barrier to entry will be the fact that upstream aren't actively maintaining the xmms codebase other than (as mentioned) integration based modifications
<persia> Buiss, Hmm.  I'm not sure.  You might do well to ask in #ubuntu-kernel, but peobably next week : this week the team is *very* busy chasing final issues with 8.10, and may not have time to help you find resources to help them.
<persia> csilk, Yeah : that's unmaintained code that was previously dropped.  Perhaps upstream could adjust to make an audacious plugin for the integration?
<Buiss> It is ok.. I really thank  your patience persia, I am waiting for Intrepid..
<csilk> persia, the project owner is pretty set in his ways, I can't see him making that kind of madification just so his app will be in the ubuntu repo
<csilk> *modification
<csilk> persia,  if that is deffinatly a barrier to entry I'll not bother submitting to revu, I'll just stick it in my ppa and link to it on the bug tarckers feature request explaining why it can't go in the repo. The people that wanted the app would still get it in the end
<csilk> via my ppa
<persia> csilk, It's not definitely a barrier : it's a negative point.  That said, it would take a code review to determine how much of the code is unmaintained.
<slytherin> persia: shouldn't you assign the bluetooth pairing bug to superm1?
<csilk> persia, as far as I can see it's only one c source file
<persia> slytherin, No.  I'm not him, I'm not his boss, and he hasn't asked me to assign him : therefore I won't assign him.
<slytherin> persia: The reason I asked is he has done recent uploads and the bug seems to be important from functionality point of view.
<persia> slytherin, Generally, unless one of those conditions apply, never assign a bug to someone : bug assignment is used to define work queues, and it's annoying to be assigned stuff that one won't do
<slytherin> hmm, will keep that in mind.
<persia> slytherin, If you think "Medium" is incorrect, escalate it.  That he uploaded it recently doesn't commit him to fixing all the rest of the bugs, although if someone persistently uploads things that break things and doesn't chase them, the rest of us get annoyed.
<slytherin> I haven't had time to check it so I won't comment on the importance.
<RainCT> csilk: you could also exclude that xmms stuff from the binary packages, then there shouldn't be any problem about that code not being maintained
<csilk> RainCT, wouldn't that be removing core functionality from the app?
<persia> csilk, Or if it's just one file, promise to maintain it yourself.
<RainCT> csilk: Perhaps, I don't know what application it is. But if the xmms stuff is just an extra then removing it may be worth considering.
<persia> If it's not extra, better to find another solution.
<csilk> Starting to regret ever responding to this pakacge-request ;)
<csilk> *package
<persia> csilk, Each package is it's own adventure :)
<csilk> That's becoming apparent haha
 * slytherin remembers his days of fixing lucene2 and batik :-)
 * persia gets annoyed that both MoM is out of date and DaD crashes the browser on every load
<woody86> does anyone know if there's a way to remove a comment from LP?
<persia> woody86, Yes, I know.  No, there isn't.
<persia> Well, if it's spam or porn or something like that, you can ask a question on answers.launchpad.net/malone to have an admi remove it, but not for normal comments.
<woody86> persia- well I kind of made a silly mistake, I had 2 bugs open in tabs next to eachother, and I minimized them for a little bit while I was looking some info up, and I accidentally left the comment on the wrong bug :P
<slytherin> woody86: that is not a crime. :-)
<woody86> yeah, but I'm going to feel bad if the guy goes through getting all these files and terminal outputs for no reason :P
<ScottK> woody86: Then make a comment saying not to do it.
<Adri2000> persia: DaD crashes your browser? :o
<persia> Adri2000, Not the front page, but the universe page.
<Adri2000> what's your browser?
<Adri2000> I've no problem with firefox on intrepid
<persia> epiphany 0.7.0-2
<persia> Perhaps.  I stopped trusting firefox after it started to eat my sessions, and I discovered that the sort of bugs I was experiencing weren't considered bugs upstream, and so couldn't be fixed.
<persia> (this was back in gutsy)
<Adri2000> strange that it crashes, because that page doesn't have anything special embedded such as flash or java
<Adri2000> only a ~350 lines table
<persia> Since both firefox and epiphany use xulrunner-1.9 they shouldn't be that different
<Adri2000> I'll try to reproduce
<Adri2000> does main.php also crash?
<persia> Oh, and ignore the version.  I actually have epiphany-gecko 2.24.1-0ubuntu1
<persia> Oddly no.  Just universe (I tried 5 times)
<Adri2000> doesn't crash here
<persia> I'm on amd64, if that is different.
<Adri2000> maybe
<Adri2000> if you're looking for the merge candidate of a specific package, you can use dad.d.n/package/
<Adri2000> but unfortunately a lot of merges are broken (at least partly due to snapshot.debian.net)
<persia> Yeah.  I'd just pull from snapshot if it were reliable : I was more looking for a list of things that changed.  I'll use mdt.
<persia> Mind you, what I'd like is to finish the updates to MoM to use the ideas from DaD, and keep MoM *always* running, but that never seems to work.
<persia> Main reason being that the MoM backend seems to do a better job of pulling stuff than the snapshot.debian.net backend.
<Lutin> persia: MoM mirrors the debian archive, afaik
<RainCT> persia: I use Epiphany too and it doesn't crash here
<persia> RainCT, which arch?
<Adri2000> persia: well, I recently signed some copyright assignement thing to allow the patches to be included in MoM, so hopefully that will happen soon, but it's on Keybuk's side
<persia> Lutin, I think it pulls from a mirror of the archive, and keeps a full history or something, but yes.
<RainCT> persia: i386
<persia> RainCT, Yeah.  I think it's an amd64 issue.  amd64 seems not to be as good in intrepid as it has been for some previous releases.
<RainCT> Adri2000: o.O
<Adri2000> RainCT: ?
<Adri2000> copyright assignement?
<RainCT> Adri2000: yep
<Adri2000> RainCT: I had to give my copyright to canonical for the patches to be accepted
<Adri2000> RainCT: I signed http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/CopyrightAssignment with s/upstart/MoM/
<laga> haha
<laga> yay for dual licensing
<RainCT> Adri2000: ah, but with clause 5 it isn't that bad
<persia> clause 7 could have viral stickiness
<persia> I made a mistake in ordering.  Could someone from MOTU Release ACK bug #287999, or ask for rejection from unapproved?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287999 in ubuntustudio-menu "Ubuntustudio menu shows all the screensavers from rss-glx in the System Tools menu" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287999
<iron> hi
<iron> just a question which knowledge is needed to be a kernel-hacker
<iron> it is enough to be a bachelor of science or should i be a bachelor of engi.
<RainCT> iron: Well, I have no idea about kernel hacking but I'd say you don't need any bachelor at all, but time and a desire to learn :)
<RainCT> iron: and knowledge of C wouldn't do any bad neither. But best ask at #ubuntu-kernel or directly on some kernel place
<iron> RainCT: right, but im studying  already therefore am asking. i have knowlegde of c . ok thx i will join #ubuntu-kernel
<iron> RainCT: thx for your answere
<RainCT> yw
<iron> yw?
<RainCT> iron: you're welcome :)
<iron> RainCT: thx
<iron> if i find a way to devl. i will give a peace of my knowledge into community
<iron> s/peace/piece
<kirkland> who can "accept" a minor upload for a universe package?
<ScottK> kirkland: MOTU Release needs to approve it and then Ubuntu Release or and archive admin can actually accept it.
<ScottK> kirkland: What's up?
<ScottK> kirkland: musica?
<kirkland> ScottK: yeah, fixes a couple of minor work-out-of-the-box issues
<ScottK> Looks fine.
<kirkland> ScottK: could live without it, but it sure would be nice to have, not on any install media, etc. etc.
<ScottK> I've asked for it.
<kirkland> ScottK: awesome, thanks
<tbielawa> Can anyone give some advice for things to consider if I was to start packaging something for jaunty? Or is it to early to consider that?
<RainCT> tbielawa: you could check the needs-packaging bugs on LP, perhaps you like some of the applications suggested there
<tbielawa> RainCT, I mean to inquire into technical things to consider. New standards to package against, such as policy or compiler versions. If you can't think of any, then awesome :-)
<RainCT> tbielawa: Oh, OK. Sorry. Well, no, just the usual stuff.. Check the wiki, there should be plenty of information
<tbielawa> RainCT, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks
<ScottK> persia: It'd be nice if the Ubuntu Studio release delegate would make some kind of statement about your ubuntustudio-menu upload.
<persia> ScottK, The release delegate currently has extremely limited access to the network, which is why I asked for someone from MOTU Release to ACK.  The release delegate will ACK as soon as next on the network.
<persia> (unless someone else ACKs first).
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> I'm sorry to have uploaded before getting the ACK.  That was a mistake.
<ScottK> persia: It doesn't particularly matter since Ubuntu Release isn't accepting stuff unless we tell them to.
<ScottK> persia: You're confident this is a good fix?
<persia> I tested it before/after and it fixed it for me.  I'd have to regenerate a CD image for a proper test, but would rather spend my CPU cycles running builds against the RCbugs list.
<persia> Although it's my debdiff and my upload, the author of the patch is the primary author of ubuntustudio-menus
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I'll go with that.
<persia> Thanks.
<persia> zul, Are we affected by Debian bug #499282 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 499282 in xen-tools "xen-tools: must use hvc0 and xvda by default" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/499282
<ScottK> persia: Ack'ed to Ubuntu Release.
 * persia shouldn't have put off the RCbugs investigation.  The remaining ones are all sticky and unpleasant.
<sistpoty> hm... anyone knows how long we've got until final, final freeze (as in no more uploads)?
<ScottK> sistpoty: Glad you're here.  I don't know, but you can ask slangasek in #ubuntu-release.  I'll be out this evening and so I think you're the duty dude for motu-release.
<slangasek> Monday-ish
<sistpoty> ScottK: damn, wanted to go to bed in an hour or so
<sistpoty> slangasek: ok, so up to sunday we can still make uploads? If so, maybe we should announce that date on u-d-a?
<slangasek> announcing Sunday?  that would be fine
<sistpoty> ok, I'll put up a draft and ask for a review then ;)
<ScottK> sistpoty: IIRC Monday 0600 UTC was the cutoff for Hardy.
 * ScottK heads out.
<sistpoty> cya ScottK
<persia> sistpoty, I was advised "Sunday" during the release meeting.
<ScottK> As long as it's still Sunday at slangasek's house, I think it's OK.
<slangasek> I'm working London hours next week, so 0600 UTC isn't far off
<persia> Could someone from MOTU Release please make a push/SRU call for bug #288938
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288938 in xmoto "Please sync xmoto 0.4.2-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288938
<superm1> slangasek, if it's mondayish would you (or someone else on ubuntu-release) mind making a call on the hal & bluez bug i've subscribed ubuntu-release to by sometime tomorrowish so i'd be able to upload it prior to mondayish or defer it to intrepid-updates otherwise?
<slangasek> superm1: yes
<slangasek> (ish)
<superm1> thanks
<tbielawa> I just want to say: debtree + dot = awesome for producing dependency graphs :)
<sistpoty> persia: if the debdiff boils down to the patch in the debian bug, please go ahead with xmoto
<sistpoty> (and feel free to quite this irc message *g*)
<persia> sistpoty, quoting and subscribing the archive admins.  I'll upload if nobody pushes, but I don't like to upload things that could be syncs.
<persia> And thanks for the reminder.  I'll stuff debdiffs in them
<sistpoty> persia: well, go ahead == do the right thing to get it in ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-25
<sistpoty> ScottK, TheMuso: announcement about "last uploads to intrepid" (or anyone else who wants to proofread)
<sistpoty> slangasek: ^^ I included some (hopefully correct) notes about main as well, ok with it?
<sistpoty> http://paste.ubuntu.com/62252/
<slangasek> looks sane to me
<sistpoty> ok, any other reviews? *g*
<persia> sistpoty, Could you stick something in there about specifically extra-avoiding updates that will land on any of the distribution images without confirmation with the relevant release team?
<persia> s/team/delegate/
<sistpoty> persia: I thought distribution building will start only after the archive is frozen?
<sistpoty> persia: or maybe you can just change the pastebin with what you're aiming at?
<persia> sistpoty, Dunno, but as a tester for 60% of the universe flavours, it would make my life easier if the images didn't change that much more.
<coppro> so when would it be appropriate to start bugging MOTUs about REVU again? I always forget whether the best time is after a release or halfway in between
<sistpoty> coppro: after the release please ;)
<coppro> well, I know to wait for Intrepid
<coppro> I just can't remember whether I should wait a month or two
<sistpoty> coppro: one week will do
<coppro> ok, cool!
<coppro> thanks!
<persia> sistpoty, would http://paste.ubuntu.com/62262/ be acceptable?  It's mostly that if someone uploads the java plugin, I don't want it to break MID, and if someone uploads a new sound plugin, I don't want it to break Studio, etc.
<persia> coppro, I'd recommend waiting until after open week, as by then the developers are often anxiously awaiting archive open, and looking for something to do.  During open week, many of the developers are glad to take a bit of a break.
<coppro> persia: oh, ok, cool
 * coppro hopes to finally have a package in the repos come Jaunty
<sistpoty> persia: ah, I see... may I add some whitespace plus a small change? http://paste.ubuntu.com/62263/
<persia> coppro, You've got them ready, lintian clean for source/binary, and met most of the common objections?
<coppro> persia: yes, think so. But there's at least 3 more packages that could be made out of the source package (different language bindings), so I want to get all of those made
<persia> sistpoty, That seems perfect.  It's only about test targets, as just because something works in one place doesn't mean it works in another, and for the images, that matters.
<coppro> but I want to get the rest right first
<sistpoty> persia: ok, thanks for your input! :) sending mail now
 * persia waits harder for pam_mount, and anxiously awaits better tools
<sistpoty> persia: btw.: what happened to ubuntustudio-menu?
<persia> sistpoty, ScottK provisionally accepted it.  I'll get _MMA_ to back the call up as soon as he can get online.
<sistpoty> persia: ah, I see... (just curious, since queuebot in ubuntu-release wrote "removed package")
<persia> "removed package" means either accepted or rejected.
<sistpoty> ah, good to know, thanks persia
<persia> Someone probably needs to teach queuebot to tell the difference, as it seems a common source of confusion.
<sistpoty> thinking again, it does make some sense (removed from queue)
<persia> Precisely :)  It's just that the semantics aren't obvious to the casual observer.  "New package" was confusing to me when I first saw it as well.
<sistpoty> heh
<persia> Anyone feel like cherrypicking?  smc needs more than I can give it.
 * persia is somewhat baffled by Debian bug #502353, which seems unfixed in intrepid (according to the changelog).
<ubottu> Debian bug 502353 in jhead "jhead: Security issues fixed in 2.84" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/502353
<sistpoty> zul: I'm unsure about bug #284762, if ScottK actually ACK'd it as ubuntu-server delegate, or just gave ack 1... any clue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284762 in vm-builder "[FFE] ec2 plugin should be shipped as a separate package" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284762
<persia> jdong, jdstrand_ What should happen to jhead?
<ScottK> sistpoty: I thought I was acking a bug fix.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ah, thanks. wasn't clear for me from reading the bug
<jdong> persia: well the biggest problem with buffer overflows in all the parsers is fixed
<persia> jdong, Not in intrepid.
<jdong> persia: I still have concerns with them using snprintf and directly-read EXIF fields to build system() calls
<jdong> persia: oh do we not have 2.84?
<jdong> persia: stupid me
<persia> jdong, Nope, and we've an angry Debian.  See the bug above.
<persia> jdong, Please fix :)
<jdong> persia: ok, I will test out the sync
<jdong> persia: Debian version looks good here; I will file a sync request
<persia> jdong, Thanks.  Don't forget all the release targeting and getting appropriate approvals.  Also, please try to soothe the DM : having them mad at us for a bug that wasn't fixed in our repos just seems extra wrong.
<persia> Especially because we're relying on their work to fix it.
<persia> (well, technically they're mad at Canonical, but that's mostly due to ignorance, I suspect)
<jdong> persia: yeah, writing up e-mail atm
<wgrant> Wait, are we being complained at for responsibly disclosing security vulnerabilities to upstream?
<zul> sistpoty: scottk acked it
<sistpoty> zul: yes, thanks, he already told me :)
<zul> k
 * sistpoty must get some sleep now... gn8 everyone
<persia> wgrant, Yes.
<persia> zul, Comments on Debian bug #499282?  Do we need that for intrepid?
<ubottu> Debian bug 499282 in xen-tools "xen-tools: must use hvc0 and xvda by default" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/499282
<zul> ubottu: superseeded by vmbuilder
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<zul> persia: vmbuilder is the prefered program these days
<persia> zul, OK, so we want a release note, or we want to drop xen-tools from the archive, or we want to fix the bug?
<ScottK> zul: True, but that doesn't make it wrong to try and make the other tool work, right?
<persia> It is even a bug?  For hardy lots of xen stuff was different from Debian and we had lots of RC non-bugs.
<zul> persia: it should already be in the release notes under new features :)
<persia> zul, It's the Errata that concerns me.
<persia> zul, To ask differently : is xen-tools broken?
<persia> If it's broken, what are we doing about it?
<zul> persia: i would drop it, it doesnt really work properly
<persia> Please file a removal bug, and subscribe motu-release and the archive-admins.
<zul> k
<persia> Thanks :)
<persia> Anyone have any suggestions on how to test Debian bug #298364?  The changes are from upstream, and targeted fixes to improve Lenny.  The package compiles for intrepid without many errors.  checkrdepends says there aren't any.
<ubottu> Debian bug 298364 in gkrellm "gkrellm: lack frequency scaling support" [Wishlist,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/298364
<persia> Err.  Debian bug #498364
<ubottu> Debian bug 498364 in soqt "=?utf-8?q?soqt=3A_The_examples_crash_and_the_menus_doesn=27t_work=0D=0AHi_St?=" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/498364
<NCommander> the bot seriously managed that title ....
<persia> Teach the bot about encoding :)
<persia> NCommander, Space on your plate?
<NCommander> oh no, if I start hacking on the bot, months will go by, and jaunty+1 will be released
<NCommander> persia, nope, my plate is currently is as full as I want it to be with wiggle room incase of $CRISIS
<persia> Not for that :)  Someone needs to cherrypick the fix for Debian bug #491590, and it's merged in with all sorts of other stuff.
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: global name 'ls' is not defined (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=491590;mbox=yes)
<NCommander> o_;
<NCommander> persia, do you just happen to choose bugs that break the bot?
 * persia has a special list of bugs
 * NCommander winces
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> Backporting fixes without a clear patch
<persia> NCommander, Which is why I think of you :)
 * NCommander is reading through the bug
<NCommander> persia, it seems the segfault is caused by cegui vs smc itself
<persia> Yep.
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> I could probably with enough force get cegui to build the misisng module
<NCommander> But I'm not sure I want to force this into intrepid so close to release
 * NCommander notes that there is a chance of regressions since this appears to have been disabled for some reason upstream
<persia> You think it's SRU material?
<NCommander> segfaults are classified as SRU
 * NCommander is currently reading through the changelog to make sense of what this maintianer was doing
<persia> Certainly.  I just try to avoid SRUs where we can :)  It's a judgement call as to whether it's something that needs the extra testing of -proposed.
 * NCommander looks at cegui's rdepends to see how bad things could break
<persia> Seems we don't even ship the soqt examples.  syncing because upstream is usually right.
<NCommander> well, smc is the only rdepend
<NCommander> So I guess if we break something
<NCommander> Its only going to break something already broken
<NCommander> ARGH
<NCommander> My maintainer just did the one thing to raise my bloodpressure faster than anything else
<NCommander> s/My/The/g
<NCommander> cdbs's repack tarball function :-/
<persia> See, this is part of why I suggest cherrypick :)
<NCommander> Well, I don't think the new upstream is actually necessary
<persia> That's another part of it :)
<NCommander> imagemagick's API been stable for a very long time, so I can't see why that would FTBFS
<ScottK> NCommander: Got time to look at another bug while you're here?
<NCommander> ScottK, its a FIFO queue, so if you don't mind waiting
<NCommander> persia, I think the maintainer simply didn't figure out how to enable the SILLY plugin build-depends
<NCommander> ScottK, what's the bug?
<ScottK> OK.  It's Bug #288931 and since we have an RC and upstream is releasing shortly, it'd be nice to give them a fix or at least a good hint.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288931 in clamav "clamd crashed with SIGSEGV in tcpserver()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288931
<NCommander> Is it fixed upstream, and just needs a backport?
<NCommander> or is it something more sinister?
<NCommander> persia, ugh, I think we're missing libsilly in Ubuntu
<persia> NCommander, One way to fix the bug is to verify that intrepid isn't affected :)
<NCommander> persia, intrepid is affected by this bug because we're missing the plugin the game runtime requires
<NCommander> (hence the crash)
<NCommander> I think
<NCommander> persia, once I figure out what the SILLY plugin needs, I can enable it
<persia> Could someone from MOTU Release please review bug #288978?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288978 in soqt "Please sync soqt 1.4.1-6 (universe) from Debian main (unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288978
 * ScottK looks
<NCommander> persia, ugh, this is UGLY
<ScottK> persia: Approved.
<ScottK> persia: You get to hunt down your own archive-admin to do the sync.  I just piled on StevenK a bunch.
<NCommander> netsplit :-P
<csilk> lies
 * NCommander waits for persia's return
<NCommander> woo
<NCommander> wb persia
<ScottK> NCommander: In your free time I'd appreciate it if you'd explain how you tested Bug 260642?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260642 in hardy-backports "please backport freevo" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260642
<persia> Anyone good with python & Qt4?  I think that for Debian bug #488041, we need to apply a patch from the BTS to qscintilla 2.2-4 and update, but I'd like a pair of eyes familiar with the technologies involved to confirm.
<ubottu> Debian bug 488041 in eric "eric: Eric4 crashes at startup" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/488041
<NCommander> ScottK, errrr .... hrm ....
<ScottK> persia: For that one, nixternal is probably the best person who's likely to be awake right now.
<persia> nixternal?  rdepends seem small enough that it probably doesn't need to wait for SRU, and crashes are bad :)
<ScottK> I have some vague recollections of qscintilla being picky, so I'd be nervous about touching it.
<persia> Especially since the version in sid FTBFS, and so it's pulling patches from the BTS.
<ScottK> I'm going to try fiddling with our Eric and see how it does.
<StevenK> persia: What sync did you want done?
<persia> StevenK, jhead and xmoto have the right approvals.  I'm still waiting for MOTU Release about soqt.
<ScottK> persia: jhead is done
<ScottK> persia: soqt is approved.
<StevenK> Bug numbers?
<persia> Ah.  271020 still has ubuntu-archive subscribed.  MY mistake.
<persia> 288938 is xmoto
<persia> 288978 is soqt
<persia> ScottK, Thanks.
<ScottK> I saw jhead sitting in the build queue, so I know it's done.
<ScottK> StevenK: It looks like ubuntu-restricted-extras could use accepting too.  I'd thought Hobbsee got that one before she left for work.
<StevenK> I didn't see it in NEW
<StevenK> Or it's in unapproved?
<wgrant> 13:15:44 < Hobbsee> oh, lovely,soyuz fell over *again* did it?
<wgrant> 13:16:10 < Hobbsee> can someone who isn't me accept u-r-e please?
<StevenK> Oh, right
<StevenK> I see it
<StevenK> u-r-e ACCEPTed
<ScottK> Thanks.
<wgrant> Soyuz isn't hanging Launchpad again? How boring.
<StevenK> Are you done using me as your proxy on cocoplum? :-P
<StevenK> I'm not sure what was going on there
<ScottK> StevenK: I need to have kaa-base backported to Hardy to fix an installability bug in hardy-backports.  I'm filling out the bug right now.
 * StevenK has never done a backport before
<ScottK> There's a magic script you run.  IIRC the archive wiki page has instructions.  Up for it?
<wgrant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration describes it fairly badly.
<ScottK> Alternatively, I can upload it as a source backport and you could just accept it?
<StevenK> I've had it explained, I've just not done it
<StevenK> ScottK: Bug number?
<ScottK> Bug 288985
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288985 in hardy-backports "Please backport kaa-base 0.4.0-1 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288985
<StevenK> ScottK: Done
 * ScottK notes that TheMuso is awake and can also be harrassed for motu-release acks.
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
 * persia appreciates that MOTU Release is spread over all three regions this cycle : it has made for significantly better throughput
<ScottK> StevenK: You might want to unsubscribe ubuntu-archive from 271020 or it'll sit on the bug list with a bunch of open tasks that don't have any archive-admin action.
<StevenK> ScottK: Done
<ScottK> Great.  Appreciate all the help.
<StevenK> ScottK: Good. Now you can come to UDS and buy me beer :-P
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> StevenK: NCommander is going.  He the one that owes beer for kaa-base.
 * NCommander buys ScottK a root bear
<NCommander> persia,   smc: Depends: libcegui-mk2-dev (>= 0.5.0-2) but it is not going to be installed
<jdong> NCommander: is that like smokey the bear only for security practices rather than fire prevention?
<NCommander> If that does not shout bug, I dunno what does
<persia> NCommander, Yep.  smc is *all sorts* of broken.  That's how things end up in the RCbugs list.
<NCommander> Do we want to fix that?
 * NCommander assumes so
<persia> Ideally, we want a package that actually works.
<NCommander> I'm testing that now
<persia> Not necessarily bug-free, but at least not known to be an SRU candidate when it releases.
<ScottK> NCommander: We want to fix everything.  We don't always get what we want.
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> persia, two debdiffs coming up
<NCommander> persia, Reason : Couldn't find matching GLX visual
<NCommander> persia, do you have a graphics card that supports OpenGL?
<persia> NCommander, I can't do much with them.  subscribe MOTU Release.  Get an ACK, and get back to me.  Put the bug number on the RCbugs page.
<persia> I can test OpenGl stuff.
 * NCommander has opengl issues on this laptop
<NCommander> persia, http://pastebin.ca/1236186
<persia> MOTU Release : any thoughts on me sponsoring bug #261962?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261962 in twiki "Merge twiki 4.1.2-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261962
<NCommander> persia, I'm going to see if I can make openGL do SOMETHING on this machine, BRB
<persia> NCommander, I haven't been able to route to pastebin.ca for months.  Please put it in a bug.
<persia> Bother.  timing.  Anyone who can route willing to put that on paste.ubuntu.com or something?
<wgrant> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/62336/
<persia> wgrant, Thank you.l
<wgrant> My routing to them sometimes works.
<wgrant> Today was a good day, it seems.
<persia> It breaks for you sometimes?  Would it be about 20% of the time?
<ScottK> persia: If it's technically the right fix, go for it (twiki).
<wgrant> I find that more often that not I won't be able to get there.
<wgrant> Or it'll take a few minutes.
<persia> Hmm.  more often than not probably means it's not just Japan <-> Canada, as most of your packets shouldn't come here, most of the time.
<persia> ScottK, Thanks.  Looking more deeply, I suspect I need to confer with sebner.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> persia: I looked at it earlier and scratched my head.
<persia> ScottK, That's about where I am now.  It looked tempting, but it can wait a few hours while I look at other bugs, and sebner wakes up.
<persia> NCommander, FYI : I can't reliably get to pastebin.ca.  Anyway, I have your patch.  Looks reasonable, but I'm curious how this fixes the smc issue.
<persia> 3 minutes just isn't long enough sometimes.
<persia> NCommander, FYI : I can't reliably get to pastebin.ca.  Anyway, I have your patch.  Looks reasonable, but I'm curious how this fixes the smc issue
<NCommander> persia, back
<NCommander> persia, with acceleration
<NCommander> persia, the smc issue is that libcegui lacks PNG support
<NCommander> so the game crash and burns when cegui throws an exception about not being able to option png files
<NCommander> Adding PNG support magicially fixes smc
<NCommander> (I just played through the first level, so it works)
<persia> magic is good :)  Now it just needs a bug report and the appropriate approvals, and a comment in rcbugs, and I'll upload.  Thanks for looking into that.
<NCommander> persia, smc probably shouldn't depend on the -dev package
 * ScottK sprinles holy water on the fix.
<NCommander> That pulls in a whole nasty chain of dependencies
<ScottK> ... sprinkles ...
<NCommander> ScottK, no, I don't get normal bugs do I :-)
<persia> NCommander, It depends on why.  Sometimes people put odd things in -dev packages.  Changing the package split is probably more bad than having smc have a large dependency chain for intrepid.
 * NCommander looks at libcegui's dev package
<NCommander> persia,
<NCommander> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/i386/libcegui-mk2-dev/filelist
<NCommander> If smc depends on development headers
<NCommander> I think I'd run in fear
<persia> NCommander, Well, you check, and I'll watch you, and when you start sprinting, I'll know the dependency is correct.
<NCommander> Lets just get libcegui fixed first
 * NCommander rather get the RC bug nailed
<persia> That's the spirit :)
 * NCommander takes off sprinting
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cegui-mk2/+bug/93961
<NCommander> That makes me said
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 93961 in cegui-mk2 "Library packaging problem" [Medium,In progress]
<NCommander> *sad
<persia> 102 files changed, 11920 insertions(+), 7337 deletions(-) : Well, we don't need gossip to conserve bandwidth and CPU time anyway.
<NCommander> persia, o_o;
<NCommander> persia, do I need an MOTU to ACK my change before subscribing -release?
 * NCommander remembers what happened with archive and doesn't really care for a repeat
<ScottK> Fricking Thunderbird plugin works great here.
<NCommander> ScottK, I'll test tommorow, if we can't reproduce, then the segfault must be some other crazyness
<NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cegui-mk2/+bug/288990 - care to overlook this and provide some sort ACK?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 288990 in cegui-mk2 "Patch to add PNG support to correct segfault in smc" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> persia, I'm going to guess that Hardy is also effected
<NCommander> ScottK, do you have a Hardy box?
<ScottK> Yes.  My kids PC is Hardy.
<NCommander> ScottK, any chance I can get you to verify a bug on Hardy?
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cegui-mk2/+bug/288990 - mainly, install smc, and then see if it segfaults?
<StevenK> ScottK: Kubuntu?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 288990 in cegui-mk2 "Patch to add PNG support to correct segfault in smc" [High,In progress]
<StevenK> ScottK: Ah, and if it's Kubuntu, KDE 3 or 4?
<ScottK> Kubuntu KDE3
<StevenK> You don't even give them choice of Gnome? :-P
<ScottK> StevenK: They get that at the library.
<NCommander> ScottK, I'd appreciate it if you could test that for me :-)
<ScottK> The public library in the county I live in has all Ubuntu for their public computers.
<ScottK> NCommander: the png thingy is ack'ed.
<ScottK> StevenK: Besides, it just feels wrong to me.
 * StevenK ponders if his amd64 box will require 'all_generic_ide irqpoll' to boot
<StevenK> (On Intrepid)
<ScottK> Actually I was at a new local Python interest group meeting last night and the presenter was using Ubuntu Hardy.
<ScottK> I thought it looked kind of tired next to my KDE4 Intrepid.
 * NCommander has seen Ubuntu in the wild more and more often
<ScottK> There were ~15 people at the meeting and only two of them were willing to confess using Windows for their Python programming.
<crimsun> ScottK: yes, KDE4 Intrepid looks nice
 * StevenK has never used Windows for Python
<NCommander> Anyone in the mood to upload something?
 * StevenK is fixing somethig
<stgraber> StevenK: works quite well if you like to ship 30MB of library and other stuff with your 1k python script :) (that was my try with gtk+gstreamer (cairo and all other dependencies included))
<StevenK> s/g/ng/
<NCommander> ScottK, ?
<StevenK> stgraber: Haha
<StevenK> stgraber: libgtk on Windows is so horrid, though
<NCommander> StevenK, its not quite as bad as it used to be
<ScottK> NCommander: Do I need to walk over to the box or can I ssh in and do it that way?
<NCommander> ScottK, probably walk over and do it since it requires a GL terminal
<ScottK> Urgh.
<NCommander> ScottK, you can upload the fix for intrepid instead
<NCommander> ;-)
<StevenK> ScottK: ssh -X for the win
<ScottK> No.  I'm really tired, so I don't want to do any uploading right now.
<NCommander> StevenK, won't work for OpenGL applications
<stgraber> StevenK: I basically had to ship my own gtk (+ cairo, pango, ...), then my own gstreamer (and all the modules), then python and some other .dll. But well, then I had a big .zip that once extracted was able to run my python script without any change :)
<NCommander> o_O;
<ScottK> NCommander: Does it matter what kind of video I have in the box?
<NCommander> ScottK, it needs to support 2D acceleration
<stgraber> the problem is when you have gstreamer needing a specific gtk and the gimp on the same box needs another, then it becomes funny
<NCommander> stgraber, I realize python's slogan is Batteries Included, but that sounds like pure hell on Windows
<ScottK> NCommander: It's an Intel 965 something integrated graphics card.
<NCommander> ScottK, your millage may vary then ;-)
<ScottK> So if it doesn't crash that doesn't tell you anything.
<NCommander> ScottK, it just won't run without acceleration
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> OK.  I'll go try it.
<NCommander> thank you scottk
<ScottK> smc is the binary package?
<StevenK> I'm sitting in front of a Hardy amd64 machine with some Nvidia card
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> StevenK, apt-get install smc && smc
 * ScottK waits.
<StevenK> Trying to find a bug
<StevenK> So I can get ScottK to approve an upload
<StevenK> I need to sift through the 19,000 messages in my inbox
<ScottK> persia: Are you uploading NCommander's png fix?
<StevenK> ScottK: Bug 288876
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288876 in asterisk-spandsp-plugins "asterisk-app-fax is uninstallable due to conflict on libspandsp1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288876
<persia> ScottK, I'm available to upload stuff : I'm happier if someone else tests right now.
<ScottK> StevenK: Go for it.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I'm just about to go collapse.
<persia> ScottK, Sleep well.
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you want a debdiff, or can I take your "Go for it" as a "Just approve any fix you see fit" ?
<NCommander> persia, I tested it on intrepid, but I think it also affects Hardy
<persia> NCommander, OK.  Missed that.  BTW, bug #28890 is against tzsetup and server-install.  Is that the correct bug number?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 28890 in tzsetup "timezones restricted to those matching the location" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28890
<NCommander> bug #288990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288990 in cegui-mk2 "Patch to add PNG support to correct segfault in smc" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288990
<NCommander> ^- persia
<persia> NCommander, I'm approving the Hardy task only so it doesn't disappear.  Be prepared for motu-SRU to be annoyed if you can't trace it soonsih.
<NCommander> persia, either StevenK or ScottK will be able to make sure it exists
<persia> NCommander, Quite likely : it's just yours to make sure that happens :)
<NCommander> (its the same package versions of smc and cegui)
<NCommander> Right, I'm just saying its extremely unlikely the bug does not exist
<persia> That's my impression as well :)
<StevenK> ScottK: Bug 288876 updated with a debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288876 in asterisk-spandsp-plugins "asterisk-app-fax is uninstallable due to conflict on libspandsp1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288876
<ScottK> I totally can't reproduce this clamav crash.
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.
<NCommander> persia, so does this also mean the patch is getting uploaded for intrepid?
<persia> NCommander, Well, it means I'm currently reviewing the patch with the intent of uploading it to intrepid.  I'll let you know if I find any reason to reject it.
 * NCommander nods
 * NCommander can't believe its only 5 days to release
<NCommander> WTH did October go?
<coppro> it was eaten by a halloween monster
<NCommander> I need to make sure my travel arrangements for UDS are up to date
<NCommander> Since I just got the last day cleared :-/
 * NCommander figures he tries to change it for an entire month, and then the day after he gets confirmed ....
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> Story of my life
<ScottK> Well it looks like https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/6663 is a decent plugin.  Someone ought to package it.
<NCommander> ScottK, it almost sounds like you changed your mail reader ...
<persia> file a bug against mozilla-extensions : that team seems to be mostly on top of things.
<ScottK> NCommander: For the purposes of testing, yes.
<NCommander> ScottK, I'm going to guess your a mutt user, aren't you :-P
 * NCommander runs
<ScottK> NCommander: No.  Kmail.
 * NCommander uses (al)pine until relatively recently
<NCommander> s/uses/used/g
<csilk> If an app ships with .class (bytecode) files with .jar files and no plain text source, is this app violating the GPLv2 under which it's released?
<persia> csilk, Not as long as it comes with an offer of the source : read the GPL.
<csilk> .class files within .jar files
 * NCommander looks forward to dapper leaving desktop support in less than a year
<ScottK> However offer of the source is not good enough to get it into the main repositories.
<persia> ScottK, It is if exercised, and the source is included when uploaded to the main repos.
<ScottK> True.
 * csilk reading the gpl
<persia> There are a few packages like that in the archive.
<csilk> "that you receive source code or can get it
<csilk> if you want it,"
<csilk> Looks like I need to check if I can get it then
<ScottK> persia: Is mozilla-extensions a package or a project?
<ScottK> persia: Actually that team just claims to do Firefox.  This is Thunderbird.
<persia> ScottK, Hrm.  I'm just parroting.  It seems to be a team.
<ScottK> I found it as a team, but just for FF.
<persia> I thought I saw asac tell someone to "file a bug against mozilla extensions" for a thunderbird plugin recently.  Maybe #ubuntu-mozillateam has a better pointer?
<ScottK> I think I'm going to go to bed.
<ScottK> Any last ack requests?
<persia> Go to bed.  There are other M-R people.
<StevenK> Really? Who? :-)
<ScottK> Hopefully TheMuso.
 * StevenK prods TheMuso 
<ScottK> I'm still here if you need something else.
<StevenK> ScottK: You didn't ack my bug :-)
<ScottK> BTW, there are buildd's idle.
 * TheMuso is around.
<ScottK> Oh, you want me to actually mark it in the bug?
<StevenK> ScottK: Isn't that the usual?
<ScottK> It depends.
<ScottK> I did mark it in the bug.
<ScottK> Usually I go with vague mutterings on IRC that people can interpret how they like and selectively copy/paste into the bug to justify their actions.
<StevenK> ScottK: I don't, since I'm going to ssh to cocoplum and accept it
<StevenK> ScottK: Hence wanting your blessing
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Bug 274062 is looking for a second ack.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274062 in jd "[FFe] Please sync jd 2.0.2-080919-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274062
<ScottK> Have a good night everyone.
<StevenK> ScottK: Night
<NCommander> persia, do you need anything else from me on smc? (I'm debating lying down)
<persia> NCommander, Nothing.  Sleep well.
<persia> NCommander, uploaded.w
<persia> 50 files changed, 7151 insertions(+), 3091 deletions(-) : spamassassin isn't going to protect against images containing words as well as it might.
<persia> Does anyone understand the intracacies of strtol() vs. atoi() ?  I think we just want the small patch from Debian bug #502072, but I don't really understand what it's doing.
<ubottu> Debian bug 502072 in apt-cacher-ng "apt-cacher-ng refuses to start via init script" [Grave,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/502072
<persia> Could someone from MOTU Release please check bug #289008 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289008 in dansguardian "Please sync dansguardian 2.9.9.4-1+lenny1 (universe) from Debian main (lenny)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289008
<didrocks> morning
<persia> didrocks, Good morning.  Do you already have a pet bug, or would you like to adopt an orphan?
<TheMuso> persia: ACK.
<persia> Outstanding grave bugs reviewed.  eric needs someone familiar with qscintilla2, apt-cacher-ng needs someone familiar with strtol() vs. atoi().  There's a couple SRU candidates, but those can wait.
<persia> TheMuso, On dansguardian?
<TheMuso> persia: yes.
<persia> Thank you.
<TheMuso> I didn't subscribe ubuntu-archive
<persia> If I understand the process correctly, I'm supposed to do that, so no worries :)
<persia> (it's now done).
<didrocks> persia: hum, no, and I can give some love to one, if you want :)
<persia> didrocks, Great.  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ has a list of all the RC bugs fixed in Debian for which Ubuntu has an older version.
<persia> I've been going through them to check to see if 1) they apply to Ubuntu, 2) We already applied the fix, 3) there's a reasonable patch that might get approved by the release team.
<persia> The grave ones are all set : either pending, or I'm certain that we can't fix them for intrepid (or I'm waiting for sebner), but there's a bunch of serious ones that need investigation.
<didrocks> persia: ok, so, the idea is to try to build the new debian version, merge eventually and check that everything seems to work
<persia> Well, kinda.  Take a look at the bug.  Sometimes you want to sync, sometimes you want to sync against a special lenny version, sometimes you want to merge, sometimes you want to cherrypick the fix from Debian, and backport it to the Ubuntu package.
<persia> The idea is to verify we have the bug, and then find the way to fix it with the least chance of causing any issues.
<didrocks> persia: understood. I will just take a shower first, update a chapter of my book and then jump it into :)
<persia> didrocks, No worries.  Thanks for helping.
<persia> Could someone from MOTU release please review bug #289017 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289017 in mumble "Please sync mumble 1.1.4-4+lenny1 (universe) from Debian main (lenny)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289017
<didrocks> persia: I am back (I had an issue with my LaTeX didn't want to compile, but I win the match ;))
<didrocks> so, I choose any bug without a commentary ?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i uploaded u-r-e, so...
<persia> didrocks, Sorry.  I was away a bit.  Everything going fine?
<didrocks> persia: Yes, I am working on sympa ATM
<sebner> persia: saw in the backlog that you said my name. did I miss something?
<persia> sebner, Yes.  I need help with bug #261962.  From bug traffic it looks incomplete.  Leaving it undone would be bad.  What should happen, and why?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261962 in twiki "Merge twiki 4.1.2-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261962
<sebner> persia: that's the question now. We are generally unsure what to do (there was a talk in the irc). So I'm trying to get other MOTUs to look at it (but no response yet).
<persia> sebner, OK.  I'm looking at it now.  ScottK looked at it.  StevenK looked at it.  None of us are sure.  You've looked at it more than anyone else.  What do you think should be done?
<didrocks> persia: I think that bug #190668 can be a side effect of bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501605 in debian
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 190668 in sympa "Installing sympa fails with password that contain unusual chars" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190668
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Debian bugtracker: global name 'ls' is not defined (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501605;mbox=yes)
<Hobbsee> persia: well, nothing currently :P
<persia> Hobbsee, context?  Is this a sneaky way of saying you'll help close the outstanding serious bugs?
<sebner> persia: zitat james_w: Perhaps we are better off dropping mini-httpd support. It's not even
<sebner> listed as an alternative in the depends, so you have to install apache
<sebner> anyway. // We discussed that on irc and it's not a *graet* solution but to me it seems the best we have
<Hobbsee> persia: unfortunately not
<persia> didrocks, I think you're right.  sync, merge, or cherrypick?
<persia> sebner, OK.  Do you want to prepare a debdiff that does that?
<didrocks> persia: I think we can merge (we only have one diff), but I am unsure about the 6.1 versionning (is . > u and so, will remplace the ubuntu package?)
<sebner> persia: I can try but as I said we tried to get other opinions ... Another solution would be if I prepare an update for our version with just the fixes ..
<didrocks> (to be clear, the ubuntu version is 6ubuntu... and debian one 6.1)
<persia> didrocks, Have you asked dpkg --compare-versions ?
<sebner> didrocks: 6.1 is higher
<didrocks> sebner: ok, but I will try the --compare-versions as I didn't know it. Thx both :)
<sebner> didrocks: welcome
<didrocks> persia: I will proceed the merge so :)
<persia> didrocks, Thanks.  Please put the merge bug here, and solicit motu-release approval.  I'm happy to upload if approved.
<persia> Err. put the merge bug on the RCBugs page :)
<didrocks> persia: ok, noted :)
<didrocks> persia: I reckon this is a manuel merge, no use of MoM for last minute merge? (I am unfamiliar with this process)
<didrocks> manual*
<persia> didrocks, Yep.
<persia> didrocks, DaD might be able to help - it's better about not being shut off.
<didrocks> persia: hum, the merge is very small there, so, no problem ;)
<persia> didrocks, Yep.  Most of these are tiny changes :)
<sebner> persia: so?
<persia> sebner, Your call.  Time to get more opinions is rapidly shrinking.  The fixes are important.  If you think it's better to backport fixes, please do that.  If you think it's better to merge and disable mini-httpd, please do that.
<sebner> persia: you are right. At least I'll do something today xD =)
<persia> sebner OK.  I'm willing to sponsor anything on RCbugs immediately on request for the next few hours.
<didrocks> persia: I close the ubuntu bug in the changelog that we think is a side effect ?
<persia> didrocks, Well, test that you can break it with the unfixed one, and that the fix fixes it.
<sebner> persia: kk, I'll do my best =)
<persia> sebner, Cool.  Ask for help here if you need it.
<sebner> Sure
<didrocks> persia: is there a simplier way to test an post* script without installing all packages (for get in further testing). If I try bash ./postinst install in the debian directory, I do not see any debconf strings
<persia> didrocks, you really want to do the install.  I tend to do them in a chroot to keep my system clean.
<persia> didrocks, Best practice for maintainer script changes is to test all of install, upgrade, remove, and purge.
<didrocks> persia: I am in a VM with snapshotting :)
<didrocks> ok
<persia> didrocks, VM works too :)
<didrocks> persia: yes, I got used to them and then go back to my last snapshot :)
<sebner> persia: I now decided to backport the fixes and a debdiff will be ready before you leave =)
<persia> sebner, Thanks.
<slytherin> persia: First give back to Debian. http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/electric.html :-)
<persia> slytherin, Nice!
<sebner> persia: Is there a way to get a Debian .dsc if it's a) not on the ftp-server anymore b) d.snapshots has this version not c) google cache also isn't useful?
<persia> MoM sometimes has them.
<persia> And sometimes you can reconstruct them from stuff on patches.ubuntu.com and stuff from launchpad.
<sebner> persia: I'll try, thx
<persia> slytherin, How are you for time this afternoon?
<sebner> persia: MoM had it :D but DaD not :\ . However THANKS :D
<persia> sebner, DaD uses snapshot.debian.net like everyone else.  MoM has a special archive.
<slytherin> persia: I am sitting in office. :-D
<persia> slytherin, Do you think you'd have time to look at how Ubuntu should solve Debian bug #467486?  I've gotten to the point of downloading local kaffe, but got distracted first by the grave bugs, and then by being unsure how to best test the changes.
<ubottu> Debian bug 467486 in kaffe "kaffe: Builds broken package with gcc-4.3" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/467486
<slytherin> persia: I have seen that bug. I think there were some FTBFS in Ubuntu due to broken kaffe. I don't exactly remember which packages.
<slytherin> persia: IIRC, the fix is as simple as compiling kaffe with gcc-4.2
<persia> slytherin, That's about where my memory is as well, and doing the recursive test to make sure things work smoothly is the trick.
<persia> That's the patch in Debian.  Do you think the same thing ought be done in Ubuntu?
<slytherin> persia: The first question is that are the packages that build-dep on kaffe are so critical that we want to fix this problem.
<persia> didrocks, You probably want to retitle the bug to identify the real issue (broken option parsing), and make sure to get motu-release approval.
<persia> slytherin, Well, it's either fix it now, or have it on the SRU list.  I think the more interesting question is "Are there any package that would break from fixing kaffe that might affect the release".
<persia> Personally, I think we're pretty much settled on openjdk as *the* JVM/JRE for Ubuntu, so kaffe *shouldn't* be so important we can't update it, but I've not done the deep check.
<didrocks> persia: is this one better, bug #289053?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289053 in sympa "Broken password parsing for sympa. Fixed in 5.3.4-6.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289053
<persia> didrocks, Much better.
<didrocks> persia: FYI, all my test pass successfully
<didrocks> ok, so, I will try to poke some people for motu release team
<slytherin> persia: My answer to more interesting question is "I don't think so". Most of packages use other better java compilers.
<persia> didrocks, Cool.  Please attach a debdiff against current *ubuntu* and get approval.  I'm happy to upload.
<didrocks> persia: debdiff attached, search for approval ;)
<persia> slytherin, OK.  Would you have time to avoid the SRU later today?
<persia> didrocks, mention the bug here and ask.  I'm not sure if TheMuso has left for the day, or if sistpoty is up yet.
<slytherin> persia: Yes. I also plan to close fop bug today.
<persia> Maybe dktrkranz or norsetto can fill in.
<didrocks> TheMuso is idle for 4 hours :/
<persia> slytherin, Cool.  Thanks.  I think your day will go later than mine, so I'll look for fop and kaffe in the morning if nobody gets to them first.
<didrocks> DktrKranz: do you have some time to take a look at bug #289053, persia will upload it if you give an ACK.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289053 in sympa "Broken password parsing for sympa. Fixed in 5.3.4-6.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289053
<slytherin> persia: sure
<slytherin> persia: Any idea if any of the help files used in Ubuntu use SVG images?
<persia> Dunno.  I'd suggest asking in #ubuntu-doc
<didrocks> I am giving a look at dhelp
<DktrKranz> didrocks, sorry. I was away for lunch. Could you please pastebin a debdiff between two ubuntu versions?
<persia> DktrKranz, Should be in the bug.
<persia> didrocks, *really* should be in the bug!
<DktrKranz> persia, it's just the ubuntu deltas
<DktrKranz> I can figure it out by debdiffing myself, though
<persia> DktrKranz, When you're done with sympa, could you take a look at bug #289017 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289017 in mumble "Please sync mumble 1.1.4-4+lenny1 (universe) from Debian main (lenny)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289017
<didrocks> persia: DktrKranz : it's in it, no ?
<didrocks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18883393/sympa_5.3.4-6.1ubuntu1.debdiff
<persia> didrocks, That's debdiff against Debian.  Needs debdiff against current archive for release-team review/approval.
<DktrKranz> didrocks, this contains ubuntu deltas, I'm more interested to see which changes have been introduced by Debian
<persia> didrocks, The debdiff against debian makes it easier for me to sponsor it, but doesn't help the release team.
<DktrKranz> e.g.  pull-debian-debdiff sympa 5.3.4-6.1
<didrocks> oh, against debian, I read against last ubuntu versoin
<didrocks> version*
<didrocks> sorry :/
<persia> Hrm?
<slytherin> persia: is 'mistake in debian/copyright file' good enough reason to sync from Debian?
<DktrKranz> persia, didrocks, I'll comment on the bug report, but I'm fine with it
<persia> slytherin, What kind of mistake?
<persia> DktrKranz, that's sympa?
<didrocks> persia, DktrKranz : ok, the debdiff against debian is attached now
<DktrKranz> persia, yep
<slytherin> persia: One of the copyright holder abosent and wrong license version. GPL v2 instead of GPL v3
<persia> slytherin, Yeah.  That's important.  If someone complained, Ubuntu could lose the right to distribute the package.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. I will file a sync request for electric then.
 * slytherin blames LucidFox for missing this when doing review in Ubuntu.
<didrocks> persia: first debdiff is against last ubuntu version, and DktrKranz wanted a debdiff against debian (which is the one I added)
<persia> slytherin, How many rdepends?  That's a big version jump : you think motu-release will accept?
<DktrKranz> didrocks, I usually like to see both, just to make sure I can understand new changes and which ones we are carrying
<slytherin> persia: no rdepends. I could skip the sync and simply change copyright file.
<didrocks> DktrKranz: Ok, understood. Thanks for the ACK. I hope you had a good lunch as persia wants to make you work hard :)
<persia> slytherin, Let's do that : it's safer.
<DktrKranz> persia, mumble ACKed
<slytherin> persia: apart from that rmadison says electric is not in intrepid. I wonder if soyuz ate it too.
<persia> DktrKranz, Thanks.
<DktrKranz> didrocks, not bad... rice and ham ;)
<persia> slytherin, It probably did.  Do we need it for intrepid?
<didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks for the hidden advice, I have also to think about it, right now ^^
<persia> slytherin, Wait : I see source in intrepid.  Please fix.
<DktrKranz> didrocks, you're welcome :)
<slytherin> persia: yes, that is what I was going to say.
<persia> didrocks, Your merge debdiffs are eating the Debian changelog entry.  Do you want to reinsert it or shall I?
 * DktrKranz is going to review and upload LyX in a couple of hours (bug 253196) unless there are other interested parties willing to do it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253196 in lyx "Bugfix upstream release of Lyx (1.5.6)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253196
<didrocks> persia: how can I proceed ? by doing a regular diff (without N)?
<persia> didrocks, You'd have to reconstruct debian/changelog : you should include the Debian entry between the last Ubuntu entry and your new entry.
<didrocks> persia: ok, will try
<persia> Could a member of MOTU Release please review bug #289066 ?
<slytherin> persia: filed bug 289067. Won't get time for some more hours. Are you free enough to take it up? If in doubt, you can simply copy the copyright file from Debian.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289066 in games-thumbnails "Please sync games-thumbnails 20080922 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289066
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289067 in electric "Problems in debian/copyright file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289067
<persia> didrocks, If you get frustrated, let me know, and I'll do it.
<didrocks> persia: no no, no problem :)
<didrocks> dget seems to be pretty easy, I will continue just after
<persia> slytherin, I'm not really free except for uploading stuff already reviewed by others tonight : I'm a little tired.  If you still haven't had a chance by my morning, I'll probably push it.
<slytherin> persia: No. By morning I will fix it.
<persia> slytherin, OK.  If it's there and has MOTU Release approval, and isn't uploaded by morning, I'll fix the last bit.
<slytherin> Ok.
<persia> 54 bugs still left on the RC list, and many fewer hours to hit them all.  Grab a bug from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ and make a call.
 * persia looks at gammu
<slytherin> persia: for rc bugs, should we do sync or patch ubuntu version?
<Hobbsee> persia: erm, how do I use that?
<persia> slytherin, Whichever is less disruptive.
<Hobbsee> persia: do i hit demote to drop a bug to the unimportant list?
<persia> Hobbsee, You review the Debian bug, and determine how it affects Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> ah, yes.
<persia> If it's something we *never* want for intrepid, demote it.
<Hobbsee> persia: I figured that, it was just the "hwo do i get something to demote" problem.
<persia> If it's SRU stuff, just say so.
<persia> Oh.  Press the green arrow :)
<Hobbsee> then I found the button (which unfortunately has no tooltip)
<Hobbsee> right. :)
 * Hobbsee drops greasemonkey
<persia> Yeah.  We're not doing the xulrunner transition :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<persia> 125 files changed, 12405 insertions(+), 4915 deletions(-) : what are people thinking!
<Hobbsee> whee!
<asac> ScottK: persia: yes, the same team also deals with tbird extensions.
<didrocks> persia: it should be ok now (bug #289053). I may have been tired to forget to copy and paste the debian changes
<persia> asac, Thanks for the confirmation.  When requesting new ones, does one just subscribe the team to a needs-packaging bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289053 in sympa "Broken password parsing for sympa. Fixed in 5.3.4-6.1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289053
<persia> didrocks, That's what I thought : it was a minor thing.  I'll do a final build test and push now.
<asac> persia: yeah. that would work. we have the firefox-extensions "upstream" project for new firefox extensions, but nothing similar yet for tbird
<didrocks> persia: ok :)
<asac> (and subscription should be enough i think)
 * Hobbsee eyes xorp.
<persia> asac, Thanks.
<slytherin> persia: I will take a look at antlr3 later. It intriduces -gcj package and dependency on -jre-headless so in my opinion it is worth syncing.
<slytherin> But I have to make sure that it builds.
<persia> slytherin, Say so in a comment on rcbugs so everyone knows.
 * Hobbsee throws another one off
<slytherin> jigdo might not be worth it since it switched from libdb4.4 to 4.6 and we have too less time to check if that change doesn't break it.
<persia> jigdo is *so* likely to break things.
 * Hobbsee puts a lock on acidlab
 * persia uploads sympa
<Hobbsee> persia: i presume these bugs vanish if a sync's been done?
<persia> Could someone on i386 please check to make sure Ubuntu isn't affected by Debian bug #446960 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 446960 in axiom "i386 build of axiom is missing all shlibs dependencies" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/446960
<persia> Hobbsee, After the sync is done, and the update runs, yes.
<persia> Checking axiom is just running apt-cache show axiom on intrepid.
<Hobbsee> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.5-0ubuntu1), libgmp3c2, libice6, libncurses5 (>= 5.4-5), libreadline5 (>= 5.2), libsm6, libx11-6, libxaw7, libxext6, libxmu6, libxt6, axiom-databases (= 20050901-9ubuntu1)
<Hobbsee> looks fine to me, persia
 * persia drops it from RCbugs
<persia> What's the acidlab sync bug number?
 * Hobbsee is waiting for it
<Hobbsee> i left it waiting for input :(
<Hobbsee> StevenK: can you do https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acidlab/+bug/289078 please?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289078 in acidlab "Please sync acidlab 0.9.6b20-24 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Probably.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: thankyou.
<Hobbsee> with a bit of luck, it'll close all outstanding bugs against it, too
<didrocks> persia: we are not affected by the dhelp bug as it has been introduced in 0.6.13 and the ubuntu version is 0.6.12
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Done.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: thanks
<persia> didrocks, Report that to RCbugs, and mark it unimportant :)
<persia> StevenK, If you're in a syncing mood, there are a few more in the queue.
<StevenK> persia: Tell me numbers
<persia> 289017 289008
<persia> The rest seem to have been hit already.
<StevenK> persia: Done
 * Hobbsee kills another off there
<Hobbsee> and another
<persia> StevenK, Thank you.
<Hobbsee> die, RC list, die!
<StevenK> Any thing I can do to help the list
<StevenK> ?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: fix bugs on it?
<persia> StevenK, Sure.  Fix or reject bugs that appear.
<StevenK> I meant, are any bugs blocked on -archive ?
<persia> Not as of 8 minutes ago.
<persia> Err.  5 minutes ago.
<persia> More will become blocked by archive, but it takes time for review & test.
<persia> Hobbsee, About xorp : it's currently FTBFS, right?
<slytherin> persia: should I demote jigdo?
<Hobbsee> persia: well, we have binaries at the moment.
<persia> slytherin, Unless you think it's safe.  I fear that any jigdo update will break image distribution.
<Hobbsee> persia: it probably ftbfs if built again, though
<slytherin> persia: yes that is what my opinion is.
<persia> Hobbsee, Right.  I'm just thinking SRU, rather than maybe-sync
<slytherin> it is not safe
<Hobbsee> StevenK: can you do https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/games-thumbnails/+bug/289066 too please?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289066 in games-thumbnails "Please sync games-thumbnails 20080922 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<Hobbsee> looks safe enough for a release ack
 * StevenK motions with his hands that he had in fact, just logged out of cocoplum
<persia> Hobbsee, Add the release ACK then :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that was silly...
<StevenK> If I stayed logged in, I might do something bad, like purge something -mid needs
<StevenK> (But dislike)
<persia> StevenK, You can do that in two weeks.
<persia> (or maybe three, depending)
<StevenK> Dunno if I can sit on my hands that long :_P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: gdc-4.2 too please.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Bug number
<Hobbsee> StevenK: waiting on launchpad to accept it.
<persia> Anyone from MOTU SWAT about?  I'm not sure if the fix for Debian Bug #499421 is important enough to push.  I'd go for SRU, but it mentions security concerns.
<ubottu> Debian bug 499421 in ecasound "ecasound: manpage contains garbage" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/499421
<StevenK> Hobbsee: If it's quick, I can process it before the publisher
<persia> Hobbsee, Can you do unapproved -> approved, or does that require shell?
 * Hobbsee taps foot, and waits for launchpad
<Hobbsee> persia: i can do it
<Hobbsee> that's one of the few that i can do :P
<persia> Could you push sympa?  Has ACK.  RCbug.
 * Hobbsee pokes it
<Hobbsee> ypu, that's gone
<persia> Thanks.
 * StevenK just syncs gdc-4.2
<Hobbsee> StevenK: thanks.  did you find the bug #?
<StevenK> No
<StevenK> I'll do it manually
<StevenK> There, beat the publisher
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What's the bug number so I can close it?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdc-4.2/+bug/289084
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289084 in gdc-4.2 "Please sync gdc-4.2 0.25-4.2.4-3.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Hobbsee> gdc-4.1 should also be synced, but there's more changes there somewhere.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Bug nailed shut
<persia> jdong, You're a reprepro person, right?  What do you think about Debian bug #442668?
<ubottu> Debian bug 442668 in reprepro "reprepro: newer BDB" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/442668
<Hobbsee> i'm trying to figure out what they are, but debian (or upstream, not surewhich) has decided to go with a strange versioning scheme
 * persia chases roxen-fonts-iso8859-1
<slicer> About bug #289017; if I understand the mail I just got correctly, it was just updated from 1.1.4-4 to 1.1.6-3, though the request was to update it to 1.1.4-4+lenny1.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289017 in mumble "Please sync mumble 1.1.4-4+lenny1 (universe) from Debian main (lenny)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289017
<persia> That would be unfortunate, as 1.1.6-3 wasn't tested.
<persia> StevenK ?
<slytherin> persia: looking at libxpp3-java, the bug fixed is some class loading conflict when using groovy. If groovy is the only rdepends that is affected then we should defer it till someone actually reports it as error i.e. in other words "SRU".
<slicer> 1.1.6 is the most recent release, and I'd certainly like to see it in intrepid, but I thought that broke the freeze policy?
<StevenK> Um. I just pointed the syncer at it
<persia> slytherin, Just put "Needs SRU review" on RCbugs.
<StevenK> I was assuming the latest was fine :-/
<slicer> It got pulled from unstable, which has 1.1.6 :) Lenny is frozen, or it would have 1.1.6 too.
<persia> StevenK, No.  At least half the syncs I've been filing were against lenny, as unstable has some new upstream.
<StevenK> persia: Then explicity state that
<persia> I did.
<StevenK> In IRC
<persia> Ah.  Sorry.
<persia> I thought you were looking at the bugs.
 * persia checks bugs to see what happened
 * Hobbsee glares
<Hobbsee> there are no good alternatives on this one, methinsk.
<slicer> Uhm.. I don't really think having 1.1.6 hurts us, btw. It's been used as a PPA for some time and there haven't been any bugs (well, not against the Linux side of it).
<persia> Looks like only mumble and dansguardian got hit by this.
<persia> slicer, No, but it's that our process broke.  We're all tired and stressed, and chasing a release, but we should have been more careful.
<persia> DktrKranz, Any thoughts?
<slicer> persia: I know it breaks policy, which is why I brought it up :)
<persia> slicer, Thanks for raising it.
<DktrKranz> persia, sorry... right back. What's the matter?
<persia> DktrKranz, We had a bit of confusion and pushed mumble and dansguardian from unstable, rather than lenny.
<persia> So, we need guidance on what to do next.
<DktrKranz> are there major differences between lenny version and unstable version?
<DktrKranz> if they're minimal or nonintrusive, they can be suitable as well
<persia> Large enough diffs that I didn't want to review them (>1000 lines)
<DktrKranz> oh
 * DktrKranz looks
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Please look at Kourou in unapproved
<StevenK> Hobbsee: If you want to, that is :-)
<StevenK> cprov: Can we unaccept stuff?
<DktrKranz> sympa is fine: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18884642/sympa_5.3.4-6ubuntu1_5.3.4-6.1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<DktrKranz> oh, sympa wasn't on the list
<Hobbsee> StevenK: don't think so.
<persia> No, sympa went well.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you could remove it, then sync it, though.
<StevenK> Ow
<Hobbsee> might make the publisher blow up, and it's certainly not the recommended way to do things
<StevenK> Indeed
<persia> Need to do that quick though, before the next publisher run, or it leaks to user systems.
<Hobbsee> waving the same package as we were supposed to get wouldn't be overly evil...
<Hobbsee> persia: exactly.
<StevenK> Hobbsee, persia: That is evil enough that I'd rather not do it
<Hobbsee> if done quickly enough, though, I don't think it'd be *that* problematic
<wgrant> Publisher has run... it's surely too late.
<wgrant> And once the binaries are accepted, you're screwed.
<persia> wgrant, source is published : binaries aren't published yet.
<wgrant> It won't accept older binaries.
<Hobbsee> other alternatives are epochs, etc.
<wgrant> The binary publishing doesn't matter, just that they're accepted.
<persia> Hobbsee, Can't do that : these are sync packages.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: That makes syncing much harder
<StevenK> I think we just need to deal
<Hobbsee> well, yeah...
<persia> StevenK, So how does the sync tool work?  You just feed it a bug number, and it does it's trick?
<Hobbsee> persia: a URL, i expect
<StevenK> persia: That, or it can be done manually
<persia> StevenK, So for != unstable, it needs to be done manually?
<StevenK> Well, the tool needs to be told
<StevenK> Since it will just assume unstabke
<StevenK> s/ke/le/
 * Hobbsee sticks a lock on ketm
<persia> But the tool takes a bug number, rather than a package name?
<StevenK> persia: Right
<DktrKranz> persia, re mumble, there are some translation updates, several bugfixes and some non-UNIX specific changes. There are some new features though, but since it has no rdepends, I guess it's OK
<slytherin> is there any automated way to check what all binaries soyuz has eaten?
<persia> DktrKranz, Thanks for the doublecheck.  I'll leave that one alone, rather uploading a revert candidate.
<wgrant> Soyuz hasn't eaten binaries for a few months now, has it?
<persia> slytherin, I think britney can do that.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: err...wouldn't think so
<wgrant> It leaves some around, but doesn't eat any more.
<Hobbsee> hm, maybe, then:)
<persia> wgrant, No, it eats them sometimes, just not as often.
 * Hobbsee feeds soyuz some corn chips
<persia> component changes within publisher cycles.
<Hobbsee> ah yes, they're always good.
<wgrant> I thought that one got fixed.
<StevenK> I saw it happen recently
<wgrant> Won't that just cause the build to fail to upload?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: I was thinking that...but i think it was just that people consciously learned not to doit
<StevenK> libgnutls13 got demoted to universe
<Hobbsee> wgrant: yes
<persia> I think it got fixed for arch:any, but is still outstanding for arch:all
<StevenK> So Soyuz demoted libgnutls26's binary packages to universe too
<wgrant> Failing to upload is noticable, so doesn't count as eating.
<persia> wgrant, For some of the multiverse->universe Java bugs slytherin was doing, there was no upload : it was just archive-admin action, which caused the appetite.
<slytherin> in case of 'electric' there was no component change still the binary is missing.
<wgrant> I haven't seen it silently inappropriately dominate things for a while.
 * wgrant looks.
<wgrant> slytherin: Which is missing?
<slytherin> wgrant: 'electric', source is present, binary is missing. binary name is same as source.
<wgrant> The binary is still published...
<wgrant> Which distroseriesarch?
<wgrant> distroarchseries
<Hobbsee> StevenK: will grab you a ketm sync request in a min, fyi
<slytherin> wgrant: wait, looks like even source is missing. I am talking about version 8.07-0ubuntu1 in intrepid.
<wgrant> The source was deleted.
<slytherin> wgrant: why? when?
<wgrant> (From Debian) RoQA; orphaned >3years, no recent interest, only meta-pkg rdepends
<wgrant> But then...
<slytherin> wgrant: I updated it in Ubuntu - check https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/electric
<wgrant> why the heck are the binaries still published, and not in NBS?
<wgrant> slytherin: Then somebody blindly removed it.
<slytherin> wgrant: and then I updated it in Debian as well. - http://packages.qa.debian.org/electric
<slytherin> damn, now I have no option but to sync from Debian.
<DktrKranz> persia, re dansguardian, it has some adjustments, especially some related to ClamAV. Upstream notes it's stable enough, but I'd double-check it with ScottK just to make sure its rdependencies are good.
<wgrant> Ehem.
<wgrant> slytherin: You can get the old one republished.
<slytherin> wgrant: how? from where?
<wgrant> By poking an archive admin to copy it back.
<persia> DktrKranz, I'm off in a bit.  Would you mind double-checking with him when he appears?  I'm happy to upload a reversion if appropriate (or don't mind if anyone else does).
<slytherin> any archive admins here? if not I will ask on 3ubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> slytherin: StevenK is (andi'm apowerlessone)
 * StevenK is hiding
<wgrant> The better question is why the binaries didn't show up in NBS. archive-cruft-checker has now lost all of my trust.
 * persia heads to bed to avoid more mistakes.  Good luck with RC chasing, and I'll be happy to upload anything left on the RC list when I'm back.
<Hobbsee> persia: would be helpful for you to send the link to the list, saying "this is what people should be working on" or something, too.
<wgrant> Maybe stick it in the topic.
<slytherin> StevenK: Can you put back 'electric' in archive?
<DktrKranz> persia, sure. Thanks.
<didrocks> persia: I will continue to chase 2 or 3 ;)
<slytherin> please ...
<StevenK> slytherin: I'm not sure. Where did it go?
<didrocks> persia: have a good night
<wgrant> StevenK: pitti deleted it 1.5 months ago.
<wgrant> StevenK: It just needs a copy from Intrepid back to Intrepid.
<StevenK> That's hard, you can't copy from Intrepid to Intrepid
<wgrant> Are you sure?
<wgrant> You can with PPAs, and I presume it's a similar setup..
<StevenK> wgrant: Yup
<slytherin> StevenK: removed since it was removed in Debian (and even though it was updated in Ubuntu).
<Hobbsee> StevenK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ketm/+bug/289097 & https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iodine/+bug/289099 please
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289097 in ketm "Please sync ketm 0.0.6-21 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Are they from unstable?
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-October/000508.html, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | FIX THE RC BUGS from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/rcbugs | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<wgrant> Sounds like we need a new upload then.
<StevenK> Yup. And I think you might be too late
<slytherin> StevenK: This is bad. I put lot of effort in updating that package and getting it to Debian. :-(
<Hobbsee> StevenK: afaik, yes.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: kipi-plugins too, please..
<StevenK> Hobbsee: What's the bug number for kipi-plugins?
<Hobbsee> oh, wait.  ubuntu changes, dammit.
 * Hobbsee has this vague feeling that she's made the changes, too.
<slytherin> StevenK: wgrant: should I ping pitti about this?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hrm, i'll need to check this further, sorry
 * wgrant files an RC bug against persia's rcbugs URL.
* wgrant changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-October/000508.html, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | FIX THE RC BUGS from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC
<slytherin> wgrant: StevenK: tell me something about electric. A sync from Debian is an option. Should I file a bug?
 * wgrant knows nothing.
<slytherin> wgrant: where can I find log of removals?
<Hobbsee> fromubuntu or debian?
<wgrant> slytherin: On the publishing history page of the source.
<wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/electric/+publishinghistory, in this case.
<slytherin> great, the package was deleted one month after the major version update. :-(
<didrocks> ok, checked done on mimetic. Taking some rest now
<ScottK> DktrKranz and persia: From following the discussions in Debian with the dansguardian maintainer, I think we are fine wrt clamav integration.  The dansguardian maintainer is reasonably active, so without looking, I'd guess it's generally in good shape.
<slytherin> ScottK: need some advice. Is 'accidental removal from archive' good enough reason to do a sync? And would you approve that sync as motu-release team member?
<ScottK> slytherin: Yes.
<slytherin> ScottK: Thanks, I will have bug ready in five minutes.
<Laney> What do people think to libanculus-sharp? It basically boils down to a Debian CIL policy violation (package with no rdepends renamed)
<ScottK> Laney: Does the package also exist in Hardy?
<Laney> ScottK: No
<Laney> (at least according to rmadison)
<ScottK> Make sure.
<Laney> I now have, it's not
<Laney> first release was in May
<Laney> So, worth a sync?
<ScottK> How big a build is it?  Since it's not in the LTS release, we'd only need transitional packages for Jaunty is we keep it.
<ScottK> There's a lot of stuff in queue to be built on the ports architectures, so if it's big, I think we should probably pass.
<Laney> Hold, just doing the testbuild
<DktrKranz> ScottK, agreed then.
<Laney> ScottK: The actual build took about five seconds
<ScottK> Laney: In that case, I think it's fine.  It'll save us having to make an Ubuntu unique package for transition in Jaunty.
<Laney> ScottK: Excellent - expect a bug asap
<Laney> ScottK: Bug #289116
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289116 in libanculus-sharp "Please sync libanculus-sharp 0.3.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289116
<slytherin> ScottK: bug #289067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289067 in electric "Please sync version 8.07-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289067
<ScottK> StevenK: Are you still alive for doing sync's?
<StevenK> ScottK: Upset at myself for not checking some, so ish
<ScottK> StevenK: 268692 is from Sid, so it should be fine.
<ScottK> StevenK: 289116 and 289067 have New implications.  I think they'd be good to do if you can from an archive perspective.
<StevenK> ScottK: I will, soonish
<ScottK> Thanks.
<StevenK> ScottK: All three?
<ScottK> StevenK: 268692 is definitely good.
<ScottK> Let me do some double checking on the others.
<ScottK> StevenK: 289097 and 289099 are also good to do right now.  Both from Sid.
<sebner> ScottK: you are totally right with boson but in this case I want to protect myself (here or in query?)
<ScottK> sebner: Here please.
<ScottK> sebner: /query OK, I suppose.
<sebner> ScottK: ^^, so here or query?
<ScottK> I'd prefer here, but am willing to do query.
<sebner> ScottK: np, here than.
<sebner> ScottK: I made the fakesync and yes it was working (I usually test stuff ;) ), the problem was that no one sponsored it for quite a long time and meanwhile there was this qt3->qt4 thing which broke boson. I tried to find a solution with kubuntu and debian-games guys but no luck. I also couldn't find a usuable/buildable qt4 stack of boson. besides last release was 2006 and in the last cvs commit (also for the qt4 port) is months, months ago
<ScottK> sebner: Actually your problem was KDE3 -> KDE4, not QT as we have both.
<sebner> ScottK: ah right
<sebner> ScottK: just wanted to clearify that it was not my intention to break it and I hard tried to find a solution ...
<ScottK> So the fakesync built when you proposed it, but not when it finally got sponsored?
<sebner> ScottK: exactly
<ScottK> OK.  Please go slap RainCT around for me then.
<ScottK> sebner: Also you shouldn't have left a non-buildable/non-installable package.  It had to be removed.
<Laney> Is fixing an FTBFS a decent reason for a sync now?
<slytherin> ScottK: about electric bug, do I need to subscribe archive team?
<sebner> ScottK: Ok, I'm sry for that. As I said, I tried to find a solution for some time and then thought maybe debian guys will suffer from the same issue once they update their kde stuff and we automatically would get the fix then. I somehow didn't know what to do else ... sry :(
<ScottK> slytherin: You aren't MOTU are you?
<slytherin> ScottK: no
<ScottK> slytherin: I'm testing it now.  I'll take care of it.
<ScottK> sebner: I got it removed yesterday.
<ScottK> sebner: The trouble is that we can't do removals post release.
<slytherin> ScottK: Thanks.
<sebner> ScottK: ok thx, I just thought that automatically the last working version would be enough
<ScottK> sebner: No.  We got to the point where because of the KDE transition it couldn't be built and because of the library transition it wasn't installable.
<ScottK> StevenK: 289116 is good.  It'll need binary Newing after it builds.
<sebner> ScottK: ok thx again, I wasn't used to that kind of issue. But really I tried everything to find a solution for the non-build thing :\
<StevenK> ScottK: Still a little distracted
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> StevenK: No trouble.  Let me know when you're ready and I'll give you the complete list.
<Laney> ScottK: I think bug #289128 is worthwhile, but would like your opinion. Feel free to invalidate.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289128 in libconfig-augeas-perl "Please sync libconfig-augeas-perl 0.301-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289128
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you please look at Bug #289128 for a 2nd ack?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289128 in libconfig-augeas-perl "Please sync libconfig-augeas-perl 0.301-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289128
<DktrKranz> ScottK, approved
<DktrKranz> I'm subscribing ubuntu-archive
<ScottK> DktrKranz: OK.  I'm adding it to my list for $tevenK once he's not distracted.
<DktrKranz> good
 * Laney hunts moar rcbugs
<bobbo> can we sync packages from Debian lenny, if they have a "xxx.xxx-1+lenny1" version number?
<Laney> I don't see why not
<ScottK> bobbo: You can, but you have to explicitly request that.
<bobbo> ScottK, Laney: thanks
<bobbo> ScottK: re Bug #264735 would it be better to use this upload to lenny instead of the proposed sid package (which has more changes)? http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/procinfo/news/20081015T233202Z.html
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264735 in procinfo "Please sync procinfo 1:2.0.217-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264735
<Laney> http://search.cpan.org/src/NUFFIN/Test-TAP-HTMLMatrix-0.09/Changes - what a lovely changelog
<ScottK> bobbo: IIRC procinfo in Lenny is very obsolete and unlikely to work well with our kernel (I may be misremembering the package).  I'd test them both and see what works.
<bobbo> ScottK: ok. I am running the sid version at the moment and not having any problems, but the RC bug concerned amd64 arch, which I dont have to test on
<DktrKranz> bobbo, I can have a amd64 box handy, need some testing there?
<Laney> bobbo: I can test if you tell me what to do
<Laney> oh, ^
<ScottK> bobbo: Right, but Sid is 2.6.26 and we have 2.6.27, so it really needs Ubuntu specific testing.
<bobbo> DktrKranz, Laney
<bobbo> ScottK: ok
<DktrKranz> Laney, do you have intrepid? because base version of "my" box is hardy
<Laney> DktrKranz: Yep, it runs 8.10
<DktrKranz> I'll leave up to you, if you don't mind
<DktrKranz> we need to test it with intrepid kernels
 * Laney nods
<Laney> bobbo: Just b/i/r sid's procinfo and see if it works?
<bobbo> Laney: yeah
<bobbo> Laney: the current Ubuntu version segfaults on amd64 (Bug #217624), and sids should fix it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217624 in procinfo "procinfo segfaults" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217624
<Laney> right
 * Laney wishes for a pull-debian-source in u-d-t
<Laney> bobbo: Works
<bobbo> Laney: thanks alot :)
 * Laney bows
<ScottK> dfiloni: You're supposed to get the FFe for a new upstream before you upload.
<dfiloni> ScottK: it is a bug fix only release
<ScottK> dfiloni: OK.  All uploads need motu-release ack currently.  Why do we need this then?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I'm checking it for compatibility with azureus (and it's new binary)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Great.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I'll leave that one to you to decide then.
<DktrKranz> ok
<DktrKranz> mostly bugfixes and translation updates, though
<DktrKranz> but I'd like to see that azureus thingie before
<dfiloni> ScottK: new translations, it fixes a bug using deluge the first time, fix the desktop file to make it valid... The question should be "why shouldn't we upload it?":)
<ScottK> dfiloni: No.  Right now we're getting into the territory where I have doubts on some archs if everything we've already uploaded will build before the final freeze.
 * DktrKranz is doing a hardy -> intrepid upgrade test on azureus in the meantime
<ScottK> It's arch:all, and i386 is in good shape, so that's not a particular concern for this package, but we are trying to be careful.
<dfiloni> ScottK: yes of sure, but I think this is not the case
<dfiloni> ok
<DktrKranz> ScottK, has it been decided final deadline?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Not sure.  I thought sistpoty wrote to u-d-a, but I don't see the message out yet.
 * DktrKranz neither
<ScottK> DktrKranz: According to my IRC logs it'll be around Monday 0600 UTC, but there's a big language pack update supposed to hit tomorrow.
<DktrKranz> langpacks have lower priority, IIRC
<DktrKranz> wasting buildd time is not smart...
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Depends on the language packs.  For KDE we have, for example, no .de langpack at all.
<DktrKranz> not built? or other issues? .de is quite important, IMO
<ScottK> It's a long painful story that involved the excessively complex translation process we have because of Rosetta, late template approvals, bugs in Rossetta, and some odd stuff new in the KDE4 langpacks from upstream.
<DktrKranz> gah
<ScottK> There are a few others, but that's the most important one.
 * DktrKranz will be back in a hour
<StevenK> ScottK: I have 289097 289099 268692 289116, are they okay, and any others?
<ScottK> StevenK: I have Straight syncs: 268692 289097 289099 289128 | 289116 will need binary New | 289067 will need source and binary New (but it just puts back something we already had)
<ScottK> Let's see.
<ScottK> So all the ones you had are good
<ScottK> I've accumulated a few more.
<ScottK> StevenK: Your list plus 289128 289067  if I'm reading it right.
<StevenK> ScottK: You have syncs
<ScottK> StevenK: Thank you.
<kees> ScottK: oh! are you coming to UDS?
<ScottK> kees: Not currently planning to, no.
<kees> ScottK: ah, dang.
<kees> ScottK: I wanted to get a brain-dump from you about filtering in postfix
<kees> ScottK: a long time ago, when implementing MIMEDefang, postfix didn't have "real" support for it, and I went with sendmail.
<kees> I'd really like to switch to postfix and I was hoping to get a jump-start on the learning curve.  :)
<ScottK> Unfortunately it's a week off of work I can't really afford right now.
<ScottK> StevenK: lyx could do with accepting too.  It has motu-release approval.
 * NCommander lost the link tot he RC bug list
<ScottK> NCommander should read /topic then.
<slytherin> ScottK: StevenK: thanks for processing electric so fast. :-)
<ScottK> slytherin: It still have to get through New (unless he did that too), so no guarantees.
<ScottK> StevenK: If it makes you feel any better about one of your syncs earlier, just had a user report the exact problem we were trying to fix and that the new package fixes it for them.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I just threw Bug #282146 your way with your SRU hat on.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282146 in havp "chown: cannot access `/var/run/havp': No such file or directory " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282146
<DktrKranz> tmpfs issues? again? gah
<ScottK> Yep.  Easy enough to fix.
 * DktrKranz wonders if there's an easy way to discover such bugs all in once
<ScottK> I think we've dealt with most of them now.  They were really common several releases ago.
<slytherin> ScottK: who do I have to talk to about clearing it from new queue. I am sure I won't need any more convincing than just link to the accidental removal.
<ScottK> slytherin: It's more a question of the time it takes and what other issues may have to take priority.  I'm hoping StevenK will take care of it, but he's got a lot going on right now.
<slytherin> ScottK: No issues, I will wait for one more day and if it is not done by then then I will bug pitti since he was the one who removed it in first place. :-P
<DktrKranz> ScottK, ACKed. If you want, go ahead (but it could be a good targets for some contributors willing to experience SRU beauty)
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Please find someone.
<ScottK> slytherin: He's not often around on the weekend and by Monday AM it will be too late.
<slytherin> ScottK: Ok. So I will bug someone here only.
<ScottK> Laney: [13:59] <Riddell> ScottK: libanculus0.3-cil has no replaces or conflicts
<ScottK> It needs to do that or there will be trouble on upgrades.
<Laney> ScottK: You mean Intrepid upgrades? I didn't think we had to do it for those
<ScottK> Laney: Yep.
<Laney> sure thing
<ScottK> Laney: I need to head out, so please prep an upload and find someone to sponsor it.
<Laney> DktrKranz: Around for ack of the above? bug #289217
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289217 in libanculus-sharp "Should conflict/replace on old binary package name libanculus-sharp" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289217
<DktrKranz> Laney, I was just asking you, telepathy ;)
<Laney> \o/
<DktrKranz> Laney, have you already a sponsor? I can upload it if you want
<Laney> DktrKranz: No, I was hoping you'd do that too ;)
<DktrKranz> sure
 * Laney high fives
<DktrKranz> I'm not sure debian guys are affected, but it's worth investigating
<ScottK> Debian tends to lean harder towards 'people running the development release should know what they are doing' than we do.
<Laney> Well I might as well submit it and let them decide
<DktrKranz> ugh, my mirror is not up-to-date... blame on Italy
<Laney> DktrKranz: pull-lp-source!
<DktrKranz> already done ;)
<DktrKranz> Laney, has monodoc-anculus-manual any conflicts?
<Laney> No, only the one was renamed
<DktrKranz> ok then
<lukehasnoname> how do we file SRU for universe packages?
<DktrKranz> lukehasnoname, wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU has the procedure
<Laney> DktrKranz: Actually, I see that that package was added in the synced upload too. I guess it should also conflict.
<DktrKranz> Laney, just to make sure, I'll try it
<Laney> Seems OK to me actually.
<jdong> a
<DktrKranz> Laney, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/62571/
<DktrKranz> it lacks monodoc-browser
 * Laney rolleyes
<DktrKranz> but it has no conflicts
<Laney> I guess I had that installed already
<DktrKranz> I just run it on a fresh pbuilder
<Laney> Do you want to add the depends?
<DktrKranz> no problems
<DktrKranz> I leave credit to you for the upload
<Laney> as you wish
<DktrKranz> Laney, ACKed and uploaded. Thanks ;)
<Laney> nice work!
<DktrKranz> I didn't want to manage it as a SRU ;(
<DktrKranz> ;)
<DktrKranz> it's just me or Firefox homepage links to Ubuntu 8.04 content?
<Laney> Haha, just got an email from someone in pkg-cli-libs saying that the rejection email was sent to him
<Laney> I wonder if soyuz should only send them to ones with ubuntu addresses
<DktrKranz> probably
<DktrKranz> but now he *knows* his package needs some love :)
<Laney> They added the conflicts/replaces :D
<DktrKranz> point them to my pastebin
<DktrKranz> they're interested parties as well
<Laney> I am doing
<FAJ> hi wondering how to get a package added to the repositories?
<nhandler> FAJ: I would suggest reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<nhandler> !revu | FAJ (Once you have it packaged)
<ubottu> FAJ (Once you have it packaged): REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<FAJ> nhandler:  what if it is not my package... per se?
<nhandler> FAJ: That does not matter. Depending on the application you might want to consider asking the application developer if they are planning on packaging it for ubuntu/debian. If they aren't, you can go ahead and package it for them.
<FAJ> nhandler: i was thinking about tryin to get wicd into the repos
<FAJ> http://wicd.sourceforge.net/download.php
<FAJ> that is how to add the package to the repos
<FAJ> but i think it should be a package in the repos.... nhandler can you help me through that?  this would be my fist time doing this, and the urls' you gave were a little confusing ;)
<nhandler> FAJ: It appears that there is an ITP (Intent To Package) bug on the Debian BTS (Debian BTS Bug #455325). David Paleino <d.paleino@gmail.com> is working on it. His last comment was made in February. I would suggest contacting him to see if he is still working on it before you do anything
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 455325 could not be found
<FAJ> nhandler:  if it already comes as a .deb, then how could i upload it from there?
<geser> FAJ: you need the source package (.dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz)
<nhandler> FAJ: However, you can use the deb that they provide as a base
<geser> often projects which provide (binary) debs don't provide the Debian source packages for them
<FAJ> nhandler:  how can i use the .deb for a base?
<directhex> david paleino?
<directhex> 2 secs...
<FAJ> ok so i have the package already installed (per how the wicd site says to)  so how can i now get the .deb for it?
<hanska> directhex: here
<directhex> FAJ, ask and ye shall receive. hanska is who you want to talk to
<FAJ> hanska:  hello :)
<FAJ> i am trying to get wicd into the repos
<hanska> FAJ: here I am :)
<hanska> FAJ: sure.
<hanska> it's in NEW in Debian
<FAJ> haha :)  ok to me that means nothing ;)  i am (relatively) new at this, and have never uploaded packages before
<hanska> FAJ: :)
<hanska> it simply means it's in the "NEW" (packages) queue in Debian...
<hanska> it means that as soon as it finishes that queue, it will enter the repositories
<FAJ> in debian and ubuntu?
<hanska> and Ubuntu will simply sync from Debian... and you'll get your wicd ;)
<FAJ> oh haha ok cool
<FAJ> how long does that normally take?
<hanska> FAJ: it depends :)
<hanska> usually it takes not too long..
<FAJ> ah as all good things doo :)
<hanska> but now Debian is in freeze, and NEW packages have very low priority :(
<FAJ> ok cool awesome, thanks hanska that's really cool, it is really nice to have the alternative (especially when network manager doesn't work :P)
<FAJ> oooooooo.
<hanska> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<hanska> that's been in NEW for 3 weeks now
<hanska> but there are packages stuck there for 4 months :S
<hanska> freeze-time is not really good for new packages to enter the repositories ;)
<FAJ> haha ya hence the name freeze-time
<FAJ> when does debian come out of freeze time
<nhandler> But FAJ, keep in mind, the package will not make it into Intrepid (which is being released in under a week.) You have a fair ammount of time to get it into Jaunty
<geser> if it doesn't get NEWed before jaunty FF we can get it into Ubuntu directly too
<hanska> geser: right :)
<hanska> but why increase the delta between we and you? ;)
<hanska> geser: my (small) knowledge of Ubuntu release cycle is... jaunty -> 9.04? April 2009?
<FAJ> will it possibly make it into intrepid-updates?
<geser> hanska: we can use the package you (?) uploaded to Debian, so no delta (besides an changelog entry)
<hanska> I believe my package will end NEW before that time ;)
<geser> FAJ: no, but intrepid-backports might be an option once it's in jaunty
<FAJ> what is freeze-time?  and when does it stop lol?
<hanska> FAJ: it's the time in Debian when we prepare a new stable release, and all (we hope ;) ) bugs get caught
<hanska> when RC (Release Critical) bugs go down to 0 (ahah -- more realistically, under a certain limit) we release the distribution as "stable"
<hanska> I believe Ubuntu has something similar, no?
<FAJ> haha ok cool.  ya it does
<FAJ> how long normally does that start before a release?
<hanska> uhm, months before :)
<FAJ> haha how can that work if new releases (of ubuntu) come out every six months?
<hanska> we have "gradual" freezes... in March (IIRC) we freezed the "base system" (i.e. libc and some other base things)
<hanska> FAJ: we release when it's ready. ;)
<FAJ> o ok
<FAJ> ok cool, so it's getting there :)
<hanska> almost
<hanska> there are still 27 bugs open, if I'm right.
<FAJ> in debian?
<hanska> in Debian Lenny, yes.
<FAJ> ok
<hanska> (but I might be wrong, I've been offline for two weeks :( )
<FAJ> o that sucks
<hanska> I'm looking for some updated info ;)
<geser> are the linux firmware bugs resolved already?
<hanska> bugno?
<FAJ> how 'dangerous'  is the proposed updates in ubuntu?
<FAJ> i know that i turned them off once b/c it messed my up kernel-wise, and haven't reenabled it
<geser> check the debian-devel ML and look for the threads about DFSG violations
<hanska> uhm, yes, that huge thread :)
<geser> FAJ: -proposed contains updated packages which end in -updates when no bugs/regressions are found
<hanska> aren't they tagged lenny-ignore?
<hanska> isn't that self-explaining?
<FAJ> hanska:  it means nothing to me :P
<geser> the discussion is about if the RM are allowed to tag them lenny-ignore or not
<hanska> geser: yes, I'm reading the whole thread again
<geser> I've haven't finished reading it yet
<hanska> eheh
<hanska> I read it this morning (it took a while, really)
<ethana2> has anyone here /ever/ seen ogle actually work?
<ethana2> I suppose to nominate it for immediate removal from repositories I'd have to file a bug..
<ethana2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ogle/+bug/289297
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 289297 in ogle "I nominate ogle for immediate removal from Ubuntu repositories." [Undecided,New]
<ethana2> in the future, is all the basic functionality of apps going to be tested in an automated fashion?
<ethana2> ..and if so, is it going to be tested for everything in universe, or just main?
<geser> ethana2: who is going to provide the needed tests to judge if an app works or not?
<emet> geser, what if the project making the app is simply dead?
<emet> geser, and the functionality of the app is already in other apps?
<emet> I mean wasn't XMMS removed? XMMS actually worked. :P
<wgrant> Then that would be irrelevant to geser's question.
<ethana2> geser: it's dead.
<ethana2> geser: sudo apt-get install ogle
<ethana2> tell it to play a disc
<ethana2> it will crash immediately
<ethana2> It depends on OSS and it was last developed for like suse 8
<emet> Ogle is old school
<emet> I think I remember using it in like 2000ish
<emet> The last stable release was 1811 days ago
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-26
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, thanks.
 * RainCT shows asac his shiny Firefox t-shirt :P
 * NCommander turns asac into a fox and then lights him on fire
<NCommander> :-)
<RainCT> NCommander: damn, you've got a better Firefox :)
<ethana2> my friend bought a plushie
<ethana2> we were considering lighting that on fire too but mozilla relented on the eula thing
<ethana2> ;)
<RainCT> heh
<ethana2> 'cuteness guaranteed' by Mozilla
<ethana2> he thought that was amusing
<RainCT> btw, someone save me.. I've been all the evening with 3 KDE developers! ;'(   (ah, and there was a conversation like "-ubuntu sucks  -ehm.. I'm an Ubuntu developer" xDDD)
<RainCT> anyway, /me is going to bed
<Hobbsee> RainCT: you'd have thought they'd be beyond that....
<ethana2> heh, they're just jealous
<RainCT> Hobbsee: heh well, but beside that they are good guys :)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: that's true
<ethana2> http://www.google.com/trends?q=apple%2C+ubuntu%2C+fedora%2C+suse%2C+debian
<ethana2> look at that google trends graph; it says something and it says it very clearly
<ethana2> http://i34.tinypic.com/24lsy38.png
<RainCT> it was curious to see that most presentations were done using Macs (I've only seen one that didn't use Mac - but Ubuntu :))
<ethana2> any thoughts on that screenshot, by the way?
<RainCT> (ah, it's also curious that the presentation done with Ubuntu was about to be done on a Mac -as it was already connected to the projector- but the presentation got mad there and switched slides like it wanted XD)
<ethana2> ..after the bug i filed on window-picker-applet gets fixed, my next problem will be figuring out how to combine menu and toolbars
<RainCT> ethana2: what's with that screenshot?
<RainCT> ah ok
<ethana2> eliminating redundancy really boosts elegance
<ethana2> and if you're going to move something to the top panel, the title and icon are it, /not/ the menu bar
 * RainCT is not sure about how practical that is (as if I wanted to close a window I'd have to click on it and then move the pointer back to the top of the screen to click on the X   - well, I'd just do Alt+F4, but anyway :P)
<ethana2> i use alt+f4 now, but obviously the window controls belong on the window
<ethana2> ..I have a close button in the firefox menu/tool bar thingy
<ethana2> but other apps aren't that configurable
<ethana2> http://i35.tinypic.com/inbix2.png -- that's my firefox
<RainCT> yeah, but that could be difficult to achieve, as the window manager is adding the controls to he border, not to the application itself
<ethana2> the app should pass the menu to the window manager
<ethana2> like in osx, i think
 * NCommander still perferred Firefox when it was called Phoenix
<ethana2> same with toolbars and such...  i don't know, still thinking about all that
<ethana2> i want a window decorator that just draws stuff right over the window
<ethana2> ugly, but otherwise it might take too long
<ethana2> hack it first, rework it later
<RainCT> uhm.. you put pidgin on top of firefox :P
<ethana2> that corner just has a little power icon in the toolbar that closes it
<ethana2> i took these earlier, just had the links handy
<RainCT> oh ok
<ethana2> you of course don't need a search field 'cause you can just dump search terms into the AB and your ISP will take you right to the page
<RainCT> well, I'm really leaving now (I've to get up in 7 hours :P)
<ethana2> oh, ok, good night
<RainCT> (well, now that I think about it that's the same amount of time as I usually sleep, but it's sunday :P)
<slangasek> superm1: reply given on bug #288294
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288294 in hal "Dell HAL Bluetooth kill switch doesn't operate properly on several platforms" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288294
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You're welcome.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: didn't think they'd need a FFe, as it was a bugfix, but :)
<ScottK> We're into the all uploads should be discussed phase.
<Hobbsee> oh yes, that's true.
<Hobbsee> i haven't quite got it into my brain that we've actually released the RC yet.
<Hobbsee> i've got the "we release on teh 30th" part
<Hobbsee> but not the other
 * ScottK notes that there are motu-release approved uploads in the UUS queue needing sponsorship.
<ScottK> sebner: What are your feelings on Bug 289297?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289297 in ogle "I nominate ogle for immediate removal from Ubuntu repositories." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289297
<stgraber> weird, I remember it working in Hardy
<stgraber> unfortunately I don't have any DVD around to make sure of that
<ScottK> sebner did two NMU's in Debian, so I suspect he'll know.
<elmargol> where do I find delted packages? (deleted from the repository)
<iulian> elmargol: Is this what you're looking for: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt ?
 * iulian yawns!
<elmargol> iulian: i found it thx anyway
<elmargol> somehow my package can not find libkdcraw  :(
<iulian> That's weird - http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/intrepid/libkdcraw
<elmargol> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(Kdcraw libkdcraw>=0.4.0)
<elmargol> somehow that check does not work
<iulian> elmargol: I don't see that version but 0.1.4
<iulian> Morning RainCT.
<elmargol> pool/main/k/kdegraphics/libkdcraw5_4.1.2-0ubuntu3_i386.deb
<geser> elmargol: have you the correct -dev package in build-depends?
<elmargol> libkdcraw-dev yes
<geser> then you need to check which files the test excepts and why it fails
<elmargol> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/digikam-kde4/0.10.0~beta1-0ubuntu3 <- thats the source
<geser> elmargol: is it worth fixing it as it got removed from intrepid?
<elmargol> I'm not trying to fix it. I want to use the application
<elmargol> they removed it from intrepid because it is a beta... and the version was outdated
<geser> the old debs from LP don't work anymore?
<elmargol> they doo... i try to build beta4... this is beta1
<geser> ah
<geser> elmargol: have you pkgconfig installed?
<elmargol> pkg-config
<geser> elmargol: look inside /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libkdcraw.pc and file a bug :/
<geser> Version: 0.2.0-svn
<elmargol> ok
<geser> I didn't check if libkdcraw.pc has a bug or if libkdcraw is really just 0.2.0-svn
<elmargol> geser: Bug #289403 can you confirm this please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289403 in kdegraphics "/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libkdcraw.pc contains wrong version number" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289403
<elmargol> mmkay digikam beta4 does not work anyway since it need some deps from kde4.2
<elmargol> guess i have to wait 6 months
<sebner> ScottK: I synced it so no NMU. The Debian Maintainer accepts patches but the project really seems dead though
<sebner> DktrKranz: morning =)
<DktrKranz> hello sebner
<RainCT_> hi iulian :)
<RainCT_> (uhm.. dunno why I've started IRC at home if then I don't take my USB stick with putty to be able to connect to it XD)
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me why powerpc does not have 2.6.27 kernel?
<persia> slytherin, Because nobody ported it in time.  I hear NCommander has prepared a 2.6.27 for powerpc, but that was done too late in the cycle for inclusion in intrepid.
<slytherin> this is bad. :-( I just updated my laptop to realize the latest kernel is not there.
<persia> slytherin, The 2.6.25 kernel should work with intrepid.  Do you know of any specific regression?
<slytherin> no, nothing specific.
<persia> OK.  If you find something, it can be fixed.  Last I knew, 2.6.25 was known working, and 2.6.26 had some regressions.  2.6.27 might be nice, but it needs more testing at least.
<slytherin> I will let you know if there is anything broken in 2.6.25. Of course the laptop started after almost 6 months so I have no memories of how good it was before.
<persia> heh.
<persia> Good to hear you have it working again.  You might also want to play with cacao, which I understand should be pretty polished by now.
<slytherin> persia: IIRC, the default-jdk on powerpc is openjdk as it is in better shape than cacao
<persia> Oh, cool!  I missed that change.
 * slytherin takes a break for about 20 minutes.
<RainCT_> Can someone paste the content of /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/softwareproperties/gtk/DialogMirror.py, please? (I'm on a public Win PC right now and so can't get it myself :P).
<persia> RainCT, What package do I need to install to get that file?
 * Hobbsee grabs it
<RainCT_> persia: software-properties, it should be installed by default on Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> RainCT_: http://pastebin.com/f60b56676
 * persia is glad Hobbsee is grabbing it, as it saves investigation :)
<RainCT_> thanks :)
<Hobbsee> persia: pastebinit ftw!
<persia> Hobbsee, Having a system that consists of something other than an onionshell of chroots helps too :)
<Hobbsee> persia: that's true.  is your main machine not intrepid yet?
<persia> It's intrepid, but perhaps not in the regular way.  I'm planning a reinstall in a week or two to make it less confusing.
<Hobbsee> right
<marcin_ant> hi all
<marcin_ant> I have a question how can I set CDBS_NO_DOC_SYMLINKING variable in rules file to get rid of debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink warnings in lintian?
<persia> marcin_ant, Just ignore debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink : that's acceptable in Ubuntu, and CDBS shouldn't do that in Debian.
<marcin_ant> persia: ok, but anyway maybe I should learn how to set variables properly....
<persia> although, considering that fdupes is run during the liveCD generation process, I'm not sure why we do that.
<marcin_ant> persia: CDBS_NO_DOC_SYMLINKING := yes or := true not working
<persia> marcin_ant, Oh, sure.  Make has two variable types : those evaluated when the makefile is parsed, and those evaluated when used.
<persia> You can set the first type with := and the second type with =
<persia> Oh.  IF you want to figure out what format to use for variable values in CDBS, you have to either pull it from your grimoire, ask for runes, or read the CDBS source.  The last is usually best.
<marcin_ant> persia: in debhelper.mk (cdbs rule) there is: 	[ -n "$$CDBS_NO_DOC_SYMLINKING" ]
<persia> Each variable is a little different, so it's hard to give a general guideline, and I don't know the format for that one, as I think it's useless.
<persia> marcin_ant, Which checks for nonzero length, so "yes", "true", and "chickens" should all be valid values.
<marcin_ant> persia: with = or := ?
<ivangarcia> I'm trying to upload revu, but i have GPG problem
<ivangarcia> I created my source .deb and .changes by doing dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -I.bzr -Idebian -Ipyc -Idistribution  -S -sa -rfakeroot
<ivangarcia> but then sudo dput revu subdownloader_2.0.7_source.changes
<ivangarcia> Checking Signature on .changes
<ivangarcia> gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/yen/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
<ivangarcia> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<ivangarcia> gpg: the signature could not be verified.
<ivangarcia> Please remember that the signature file (.sig or .asc)
<ivangarcia> should be the first file given on the command line.
<ivangarcia> how can I do?
<StevenK> You should not be running dput under sudo
<marcin_ant> persia: it doesn't want to work at all
<ivangarcia> StevenK, it says the same without it
<StevenK> ivangarcia: -Idebian is also a bad idea
<StevenK> ivangarcia: "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found." == means you didn't sign your .changes
<persia> That comes from the -uc.  The -us is also likely to cause issues for an upload.
<ivangarcia> how can I sign then? my changelog file in debian has correct signature
<persia> marcin_ant, You probably have to define it with := before the includes, but as I said before, don't do that.
<StevenK> When it says signature, it means OpenPGP signature, not e-mail signature
<ivangarcia> Stevenk, how to force him to ask me for GPG signature when creating the .deb ?
<persia> ivangarcia, Instead of your complicated line, use debuild -S -I -i
<ivangarcia> hmm, now i added a new version into my changelog and it asked me for the GPG key
<ivangarcia> persia, but I want to exclude few folders to not get inside the .deb, how to do?
<persia> ivangarcia, That's what the -i -I does.
<StevenK> No it doesn't
<persia> Yes it does.
<StevenK> -I and -i exclude folders from the source tarball. This may also exclude from the .deb, but it's side-effect
<persia> Oh.  It's a side effect I've used previously then :)
<ivangarcia> persia, so I have to specify the folders I want to exclude by doing -Ifolder1 -Ifolder2/subfolder3 ?
<persia> ivangarcia, Apparently that doesn't reliably work (or at least that it works isn't a specifically intended feature).
<slytherin1> persia: a problem on my laptop. Not a regression as I was having same problem even before upgrade. There is some sort of kernel panic which causes complete freeze if using GUI. If using CLI it only shows some error and continues.
<persia> slytherin, Hmm.  libdrm changes maybe?
<ivangarcia> persia, so in which file can I specify the subfolders that I don't want to be included inside the .deb ?
<slytherin1> persia: Not sure. As I said I was having problem even before upgrade i.e. in hardy.
<geser> ivangarcia: which folders are you wanting excluded from the source package?
<persia> ivangarcia, I'm not sure.  I mostly work with the two-stage create-source-package, build-source-package process, rather than the create-source-and-binary-packages process.
<ivangarcia> geser, for example I have a "distribution" folder that I don't want to include there, and also a images .png folder i want to exclude
<sebner> persia: ehm, got my mail? ^^
<ivangarcia> persia, i succeded to upload to REVU, but just the .tar.gz, is that normal ? not .deb was created
<geser> ivangarcia: you should only upload <pkg>_source.changes to REVU
<geser> ivangarcia: you want those folder excluded from the source package? why?
<persia> sebner, Dunno how to help you with that.  I don't really understand the package.  What specifically are you trying to accomplish?
<ivangarcia> well, distribution folder contains the .exe binary files and some images are already compiled into a py file, so i don't need them.
<persia> ivangarcia, If those aren't regenerated during the build, you might have to delete them from the orig.tar.gz in debian/rules get-orig-source to comply with the rule that all binaries should be compiled.
<ivangarcia> let me check some help of how to do the get-orig-source
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Changing%20the%20Original%20Tarball
<slytherin1> persia: sample file attached to fop bug with instructions for conversion. :-)
<persia> slytherin1, Excellent.  I'll take a look at that in a bit.  You've verified the fix?
<slytherin1> persia: yes not with the new version of package but by adding just the necessary jar file in classpath in fop shell script.
<persia> slytherin1, Even better!
<sebner> persia: fixing the package ^^, however I'll talk to james_w then
<persia> sebner, That's probably best, if you're not sure what needs doing.  I'd like to push the fix before it becomes an SRU, but it looks like it needs deep understanding to know which is the right thing to do.
<sebner> persia: exactly, but like I said I'll talk to james_w again and then I'll fix it (maybe not with the best solution but fix is fix). If I have problems I'll tell you anyhow
<persia> sebner, OK.  Good luck.
<sebner> thx ^^
<marcin_ant> persia: thank you for help, unfortunately I cannot see any way to avoid symlinking so I will ignore these lintian warnings, propably it's just cdbs bug
<persia> marcin_ant, It's a lintian bug in Ubuntu : the CDBS change is intentional.  That it can't be disabled might be a CDBS bug, but nobody is going to care.
<ivangarcia> hello persia, my REVU is uploaded, what is the formal/educated procedure to ask reviewers to test it?
<ivangarcia> it's named subdownloader_2.0.8
<marcin_ant> persia: ok
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=497829 is good for an SRU, right?
<ubottu> Debian bug 497829 in sendxmpp "[sendxmpp] Syntax for specifying the connection host does not work" [Serious,Closed]
<persia> ivangarcia, paste the URL here, and ask for a review.  Don't do this more than once in 24 hours, or people get annoyed.  RIght now, most people will probably ignore it, as everyone is looking at release-critical stuff for intrepid.
<ivangarcia> persia, how to know the url of the REVU? the command doesn't give me any
<slytherin> persia: antlr3 from Debian builds fine in Ubuntu pbuilder and introduces antlr3-gcj package. The RC bug is not present in Ubuntu version. It was just and FTBFS bug after introduction of -gcj package.
<persia> Laney, Yep, unless you can cherrypick a smaller patch.
<persia> slytherin, If it's not present in intrepid, we don't care.  Please mark it "Doesn't affect intrepid".  We'll fix it right for jaunty.  Thanks for looking.
<persia> ivangarcia, Take a look at the REVU website.
<slytherin> ok
<Laney> I think that's the only fix in the upstream release, from the changes
<persia> Laney, In that case, maybe it's safe.  You might prepare a debdiff and ask someone in MOTU Release if they would approve it.
<Laney> I guess I'll have a look
<slytherin> persia: I put comment in text box and demoted antlr3. I was expecting that comment will be saved but it is not.
<Laney> motu-release: bug #289459 needs looking at
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289459 in sendxmpp "Please sync sendxmpp 1.14-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289459
<persia> slytherin, You added the comment, clicked save, and pressed the green arrow and it deleted the comment?
<slytherin> persia: No. I didn't click save. :-(
<persia> slytherin, That's why it didn't save :)
<ivangarcia> persian, it seems that http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=subdownloader
<ivangarcia> it was uploaded by an old contributor
<ivangarcia> but it's not the 2.0.8
<persia> ivangarcia, It appears that subdownloader_2.0.8_source.changes was rejected.  Is your key in launchpad?  Had you logged into REVU before you uploaded?
<ivangarcia> hmm, the REVU login failes with a python error
<ivangarcia> it tries to do an openid sign in from launchpad
<ivangarcia> but when i click on Sign In, it redirects me to a python error
<ivangarcia> i've reported the error to their REVU email.
<ivangarcia> my key is on launchpad
<persia> NCommander, Any chance you could look at that?
<persia> RainCT : ivangarcia wins the prize.
<ScottK> sebner: Does it work now?
<persia> ivangarcia, Once you get login sorted, ask a REVU admin to requeue subdownloader_2.0.8_source.changes
<ivangarcia> hmm, persia, is it the 1.2.9 package of subdownloader in REVU conflicting with my 2.0.8 uploaded?
<persia> ivangarcia, Nope.  It's that login is broken.
<persia> (or at least, your login is broken)
<ivangarcia> hmm, how can only mine? :-) i hope they haven't put an if user==capiscuas to me
<ivangarcia> to show that error
<ivangarcia> well, persia, I hope they fix it soon, by the way, can anybody delete that subdownloader 1.2.9 package uploaded long time ago?
<persia> ivangarcia, I doubt it's just you.  I have sufficient access to discover the problem, but not enough to fix it (and don't really understand the code anyway).  You'll have to wait for a REVU Hacker to look at the traceback and fix it, or look at it yourself, and file a patch.
<persia> No need to delete the old package.  The new package will show up anyway.  Nice to see different approaches to packaging anyway, and provides a pointer to someone who might help you if you would like a hand.
<ivangarcia> persia, can u login to revu ? or nobody can
<persia> ivangarcia, I just logged in without any issues.  I suspect it's new accounts that can't log in.
<nhandler> persia: I also was able to login with no issues
<slytherin> persia: going out for few hours. If there any tasks left related to java till then drop me a message.
<persia> slytherin, Should be fine : most of the big stuff is done, and Java didn't make first-class for intrepid anyway : at least what is there is a *huge* improvement over hardy.
<sebner> ScottK: pardon?
<slytherin> persia: yes we will make java rock in jaunty and then rename jeos as java enterprise os :-P
<persia> heh.
<ScottK> sebner: Bug 289297 says it's broken and useless.  After your sync's is that still true?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289297 in ogle "I nominate ogle for immediate removal from Ubuntu repositories." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289297
<DktrKranz> ScottK, mind looking at bug 289459? Fixes an RC bug and should be trivial enough to pass
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289459 in sendxmpp "Please sync sendxmpp 1.14-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289459
<ScottK> sebner: Please mark in the bug.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> DktrKranz: It looks like the RC bug fix is in the NMU Prior.  If the new upstream isn't clearly a small bugfix release, the NMU diff should be cherrypicked.
<DktrKranz> I think new upstream is just that
<ScottK> OK
<persia> I thought Laney said the new upstream was just the application of the proposed Debian patch.
<slytherin> persia: so you are taking care of fop right?
<ScottK> He said bugfixes.
<persia> Ah.
<persia> slytherin, Yep.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: If it's bugfix only, your ack is enough.
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<persia> slytherin, Well, I'm reviewing it.  Looks like you still need motu-release approval for the upload.
<slytherin> persia: IIRC, ScottK already gave approval few days ago. I was discussing the bug with geser then and he asked me to verify the fix.
<persia> slytherin, Unless it's different than bug #268930
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268930 in fop "FOP fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.w3c.dom.svg.SVGDocument" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268930
<slytherin> persia: that is the bug I am talking about
<persia> I don't see M-R approval.
<persia> ScottK, Can you confirm the approval on that bug?  Assuming it tests OK, I'd like to upload.
<slytherin> persia: me has to go. if it is not done by the time I return I will chase it with help from geser.
<persia> slytherin, At this point, sponsoring isn't your primary blocker.
<ScottK> persia: Done
<persia> ScottK, Thanks.
<ScottK> Leaving
<persia> slytherin, I'll probably upload in the next 30 minutes.
<persia> Have a good day ScottK
<persia> All : if you get IRC approval from motu-release, please paste to the bug for the benefit of posterity.
<sebner> ScottK: the last sync just prevent a FTBFS. I still support the removal (outdated, upstream dead, alternatives). Should I add a comment or is it enough that I told it to you /here?
<persia> sebner, You believe not only that it's broken, but that it's unfixably broken?
<sebner> persia: it isn't broken. the last upstream release was 5 years ago and we have plenty of *not* dead alternatives
<persia> sebner, There are programs I use several times a week that meet that description.  Packages should at least be broken or known dangeously buggy to be removed.
<sebner> persia: well, I have a different opinion but nvm then
<persia> sebner, Well, if you could point at a bug that made it hard to maintain, or broken for users, or something, I'd support removal.  I'm all for dropping cruft.  I just don't believe that packages become useless just because they are old, or because upstream is inactive.
<persia> sebner, When you say "it's not broken", that immediately makes me question the value of removal.  What problem is solved by removing it?
<sebner> persia: sure old packages aren't useless but 5 years is heavy (at least for me)... It seems also Debian is thinking of that .. security -> debian 496425
<ubottu> Debian bug 496425 in ogle "The possibility of attack with the help of symlinks in some Debian packages" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/496425
<sebner> persia: and in debian BTS you can see: doesn't support, please implement ,..
<persia> sebner, An open security bug on a package that is dead upstream and nobody offering to fix it would be grounds for removal in my book.  Security is important.
<persia> That's different from a package just being old.
<persia> There are hundreds of packages in Ubuntu that have not been uploaded since the archive was made public.  Some of these are fairly useful packages, but don't need any work, because they aren't broken.
<sebner> persia: ok ok
<persia> If any of these packages get bugs, the bugs should be fixed.  If it is determined that a bug is critical and unfixable (nobody knows how or cares enough to fix it, including upstream), then the package becomes a candidate to be dropped, as a means of fixing the bug.
<persia> That it still has a Debian maintainer (hasn't been orphaned) is one of the things that makes me thing someone might care.
<sebner> persia: I see, if Debian Maintainer is still active (He hasn't answered on the bug reoprts for a while) I'll talk to him about the removal
<persia> Right.  If he wants to maintain it, then there's someone interested, and it should be kept (as long as he can maintian it).
<sebner> persia: but you know ... release release release
<persia> Yes, but release doesn't mean we stop fixing bugs : that's why we have an SRU process.  Plus, you tell me this package isn't broken, so I fail to see how it's important for release.
<sebner> persia: but we can't remove packages after release. and we still don't know if it's activily maintained or not (also if it's not orphaned yet)
<persia> sebner, Yes, but if the package isn't broken, what's the point of removal?
<sebner> persia: security
<persia> sebner, as the MOTU SWAT team told you they won't work on this?
<persia> has the security issue been raised to MOTU SWAT for consideration?
<sebner> persia: /me is overasked. ScottK just told me to say something. Anyway I'm writing a mail to the debian maintainer
<persia> sebner, OK.  I'm just asking lots of questions because I don't see any convincing rationale, and I don't see any unfixable bugs.
<sebner> persia: I see, /me wasn't used to it yet ^^. However, I inform you what the Debian Maintainer replied (if he does)
<persia> sebner, No need to inform me.  If the maintainer decides to remove, just link the Ubuntu removal bug to the Debian removal bug.  If the maintainer doesn't want to remove, appropriately triage the Ubuntu removal bug :)
<sebner> persia: and if he doesn't answer? :)
<persia> sebner, Well, then we go back to my other questions.  If there is an unfixable bug, or it's otherwise known buggy, I don't have an issue with removal.
<joaopinto> what's the fix for that /tmp problem ? Using a tmp inside the user's home dir ?
<persia> I just don't want to start removing stuff because upstream is inactive, as then I'll be surprised one day because someone removed something I use, for which the alternatives aren't quite right.
<Laney> DktrKranz: Can you subscribe the archive to bug
<Laney> bug #289459?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289459 in sendxmpp "Please sync sendxmpp 1.14-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289459
<persia> joaopinto, or using a tmpfile library that doesn't hardcode paths, and makes sure it's safe to use the file before using it.
<sebner> persia: I totally understand (though there are lots of alternatives with more feature :P). However we'll see what happens. thx for teaching me :)
<persia> sebner, In this case, I suspect that removal is probably correct, but there might be a couple features that ogle has that others don't have that are interesting.  I remember that it worked well over VNC last time I played with it (maybe 6-7 years ago) : dunno if it still does, but I think a lot of the others use video accelleration, and might not work as well over VNC.
<sebner> persia: ok
<ScottK-palm> DktrKranz: I'm nervous about virtualbox. I think we need a serious plan for watching it/SRU if we do it.
<ScottK-palm> Back later.
<DktrKranz> my main doubt is what "support ubuntu 8.10" means, if that prevents users from running it, I'm fine with it
<DktrKranz> Laney, done
<joaopinto> erm, libcups.so.2 is missing from ia32-libs
<ScottK-palm> persia: Would you please look at Bug 275688? The bug discussion raises some licensing questions I'm not in a position to investigate.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<ScottK-palm> Or any other motu with some bandwidth to look into it ....
<ScottK-palm> Back later.
<persia> Regarding 275688 : I'm not sure what to do.  It needs a method to notify the users of the licensing issue, and potentially has viral impact on all rdepends.
<persia> I'm tempted to defer to SRU because of the rdepends testing requirements, and look at the new upstream to avoid the issue, rather than trying to force through all the packages now (even with just licensing changes) and hope for the best, but this might have other implications.
<persia> Given that the issue also affects dapper, gutsy, and hardy, I don't see much advantage to rushing.
 * persia wonders when feisty will not only be officially not supported, but no longer show in rmadison
<persia> Anyone from motu-SRU have an opinion on that strategy?
<elmargol> ? don't we accept upstream bugs anymore?
<persia> elmargol, What do you mean?
<elmargol> Bug #289403
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289403 in kdegraphics "/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libkdcraw.pc contains wrong version number" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289403
<persia> elmargol, Well, complain to the KDE Desktop triage team.  Both GNOME and KDE Desktop triage teams tend to ask people to file upstream because they are pulling from upstream directly, and don't typically have time to do all the linking and bug forwarding stuff that are done in other areas.
<persia> elmargol, Mind you, the best way to complain would be to offer to perform this function :)
<elmargol> I just don't care that much.. If they don't like my input. I just stop filling kde related bugs
<persia> elmargol, Well, for bugs in core GNOME or KDE, it's just best to file upstream, until the teams have the time to actually care about launchpad.
<persia> Someone needs to track the upstream bugs, and track when they get closed in Ubuntu, and it's a lot of work, and nobody seems to want to do it.
<persia> As a result, there are lots of invalidations like that one.
<persia> devfil_, jdong DktrKranz : any issues with me deferring bug #275688 to SRU?  My understanding is that it needs a fresh upload and recompile of all rdepends, or review and possible relicensing of all rdepends, plus user notification that only GPL binaries can be produced by fpc.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<persia> Fix for Jaunty would be new upstream and rdepends recompile, so it's not a case of pulling the fix from the current dev release.
<jdong> persia: ok, I think then we should do the old Jaunty fix, then copy to Intrepid like we did for azureus and friends
<jdong> I have no objection to it
<persia> !jdong
<ubottu> <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<jdong> :)
<persia> You really want to copy-back 2.2.2 to everywhere, rather than just adding licensing notes?
<persia> It's certainly easier, but it's a *huge* testing burden.
<jdong> is it just licensing?
<jdong> I was under the understanding that fpc was a bit broken throughout
<persia> That bug is that anything compiled by fpc must be released under the GPL, which may or may not be true for the current archive.
<persia> Further, users aren't notified of this, and so may be using fpc to ship violating code.
<persia> I'm not sure whether it's better to fix fpc in the old releases to be capable of compiling non-GPL code, or just to notify users.
<persia> I'm also not sure if the current set of packages built with fpc is all GPL : if there's anything non-GPL there, we're in violation, and need to either relicense the package, or recompile with a non-viral fpc.
<NCommander> persia, we could backport 2.2.2 to Intrepid, although I dunno how much a help that will be. *isn't completely clear on the licensing issue ATM*
<persia> NCommander, backports would be useful, but don't help the bug.
<NCommander> persia, well, we could move from backports to proposed to updates. Its been done before (clamav)
<persia> NCommander, That's what jdong proposed above, leading to me asking the bot to quote hobbsee
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> soryy
 * NCommander is a little decaffinated
 * Elbrus reported bug 275688, but has trouble understanding the problem at the moment (apart from the freeze).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<persia> Elbrus, which problem are you having trouble understanding?
<NCommander> Elbrus, updating the package to 2.2.2 breaks the ABI, we need to rebuild all its depenedencies and test
<NCommander> We release in 4 days, there simply is not enough time
<Elbrus> what can I do to help?
<Elbrus> persia: about the license... upstream changed it?
<persia> Elbrus, First, check the packages that are built with fpc : make sure they are all GPL.  If not, we need to chase those.
<NCommander> Elbrus, we can't do anything at the moment, but what I think we're planning to do (persia/jdong, correct me if I'm strong) is state the transition as a backport
<NCommander> Elbrus, we need loads of testers and sometimes porters when doing that
<persia> Elbrus, upstream changed the license for a library that packages built with fpc link against.
<Elbrus> persia: IIUC they did that because the original library was not free, right?
<persia> NCommander, We can do investigation.  There's no need to push 2.2.2 back to earlier releases if there are no non-GPL rdepends : we can just add a note for users warning them of the issue.
<NCommander> persia, oh, its only non-GPL rdepends that are affected?
 * NCommander missed that bit
<persia> Elbrus, My reading was that the original library was GPL, and didn't have any exceptions allowing users to link against it for non-GPL code, so that anything compiled with fpc < 2.2.2 *must* be GPL.
<persia> NCommander, Any non-GPL rdepends are violating the fpc < 2.2.2 license.
<NCommander> persia, ick. Yeah, thats a bug
<persia> NCommander, Indeed, but it might not require the backports model to fix : it depends on the rdepends.
<NCommander> persia, that would be nice if so
<persia> NCommander, Well, it still needs a notification update to users of some sort.  I don't even know how we would announce that sort of thing.
<NCommander> Stick it in the release notes
<NCommander> Maybe we can simply get upstream to retroactively release the library with a linking exception
<persia> NCommander, Um. no.  That's not going to be possible.  upstream cleanroom-reimplemented the affected code because it couldn't be relicensed.
<NCommander> persia, oh, shoot. NM
<persia> Also, putting it in the release notes doesn't help dapper, gutsy, or hardy users.
<NCommander> persia, point taken ;-)
<NCommander> persia, assuming there are license incompabilities and such, I take it we're probably going to want to backport and release to gutsy, hardy, and intrepid? (in reverse order)
<persia> NCommander, please read my comment from 30 minutes ago.
<NCommander> Right, but I'm assuming if the rdepends have license incom- .... ya know, its too early for me to think about liceneses
<persia> Also, it depends on the nature of the license incompatibilities : it might be less invasive to relicense one of the rdepends (e.g. ISC -> GPL) rather than do a backport.  Needs investigation.
 * Elbrus is trying to find the build-depend packages, but wonders if he needs more than the reverse depends shown by apt-cache showpkg?
<NCommander> Elbrus, the best way to find rdepends ona  compiler is check the depends of the compilers runtime library
<persia> (which happens to also be the list of packages that are linked against the offending code)
<Elbrus> in this case, would that be fp-units-rtl?
<azeem> hrm, can somebody push wbxml2_0.9.2-5 into intrepid?
<persia> Elbrus, I think so.
<persia> azeem, Which bug?
<azeem> well, Debian bug #487217, which makes libsyncml fail for most or all bluetooth mobiles
<ubottu> Debian bug 487217 in libwbxml2-0 "libwbxml2-0: Several SyncML flaws" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/487217
<azeem> also #297939
<azeem> eh
<azeem> also #287838
<Elbrus> hmm, imapcopy build depends on fp-compiler, but doesn't show up in the depends.
<persia> azeem, How are these related?
<azeem> persia: disregard #297939
<azeem> that was a typo
<persia> Ah..  You meant bug #267397 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267397 in wbxml2 "Sync package with debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267397
<azeem> well, was saying that Debian #487217 is also in LP as #287838
<ubottu> Debian bug 487217 in libwbxml2-0 "libwbxml2-0: Several SyncML flaws" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/487217
<persia> bug #287838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287838 in wbxml2 "msynctool of nokia 6120 crashes with 0x43 permission denied libwbxml" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287838
<persia> Anyone from MOTU-Release have an opinon on whether this is pre-release or SRU?
<azeem> the patch is pretty well tested on Debian; while it has fixed libsyncml for quite a few people, we have not gotten any reports about regressions
<azeem> sorry that fell through the cracks
<persia> azeem, Well, these things happen sometimes, although it's unfortunate that it was missed for 10 weeks.
<persia> At this point, it needs approval from the release team to be uploaded.
<azeem> I understand
<persia> After the release is compelted, it's probably a good candidate for SRU though : it's just a matter of determining when to do it.
 * ScottK looks
<azeem> mitsuhiko's issue reminded me of it
<persia> mitsuhiko's issue is precisely the same thing.
<azeem> yeah, reminded me as in, made me realize Ubuntu doesn't have the patch yet
<ScottK> Will libsyncml0 need to be rebuilt?
<azeem> no
 * ScottK hasn't had time to readh the scrollback.
<azeem> at least not AIUI
<azeem> I think libwbxml2 sends garbage back or something, and the patch fixes it
<azeem> the patch was written by the libsyncml upstream maintainer
<ScottK> persia: If you concure the rdepends don't need a rebuild, then go ahead.
<ScottK> concure/concur
 * persia looks more carefully at the patch
<ScottK> persia: I marked that in the bug, so all yours.
<persia> Grumble.  It's another one of those annoying packages where the maintainer is doing different things in sid and lenny.
<azeem> that'd be me :)
<persia> azeem, Yes it would :)
<azeem> the patch introduced in -6 seems to have caused some regressions, so I didn't push it into lenny
<azeem> needs more investigation
<persia> azeem, "patch"?  There's a huge chunk of changes in -6.
<azeem> -5 should be used for Ubuntu, or the patch extracted
<azeem> persia: well, I changed the patch system; I mean the one patch which got added on top
<persia> I'm just reviewing now, but expect I'll ask for a sync of -5.
<azeem> Debian #497709
<ubottu> Debian bug 497709 in wbxml2 "wbxml2: patch" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/497709
<persia> azeem, Right : it's the change of the patch system that makes it hard to review -6 quickly.
<azeem> 17:26 < azeem> -5 should be used for Ubuntu, or the patch extracted
<azeem> where "the patch" being the one from Debian #487217
<persia> azeem, More generally, although I understand it's always better to have one's pet patch system, especially when taking over maintainership from another, I just think it's a risky sort of change close to release.
<ubottu> Debian bug 487217 in libwbxml2-0 "libwbxml2-0: Several SyncML flaws" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/487217
<azeem> persia: actually, I just renamed the patches to have numbers in front
<persia> Right.  487217 is the interesting bug to fix.
<persia> Bother.  s/syncml/SYNCML/ is just an annoying thing to change for 11 -> 12.
<persia> azeem, I don't see any changes that look ABI-dangerous.  I'll just do a bit of testing, and request a sync of -5.
<azeem> persia: thanks
<persia> azeem, Thanks for poking about it.
<persia> azeem, I'm duping the bugs backwards only to keep the approval on the master bug.
<Elbrus> bug 275688 mentions four rdepends, imapcopy is GPL-2+, hedgewars is GPL-2, libhdate is GPL-3+ and gearhead is LGPL-2+. So I guess the last one needs to be relicensed, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
 * Elbrus still has not found the way to FIND these (and more) rdepends...
<Laney> FTBFS due to a library dependency being deleted: reason for updating now?
<Laney> s/updating/syncing/
<persia> Elbrus, Next check if anything is linked against gearhead.
<Laney> (it has previously built in Intrepid)
<persia> Laney, deleted in Debian, or deleted in Ubuntu?
<Laney> persia: Both
<persia> Which package?
<Laney> gdis, previously depending on gtk+extra
<Laney> There was a NMU in Debian to update the deps
<persia> apt-cache show gdis doesn't show that dependency for me.  Does it show it for you?
<persia> Might have been inadvertently fixed by warp10's recompile in May.
<persia> azeem, Do you have an LP ID?
<Laney> persia: Hmm. It still FTBFS though due to the build-dep
 * azeem hides
<azeem> persia: it's mbanck
<Elbrus> gearhead is a role playing game that does not have any depends or reverse depends except it's own binaries
<persia> Elbrus, OK.  Please report the state of the licenses, and the lack of rdepends of gearhead to the bug.  That will help the SRU team decide how they want to handle it.
<Elbrus> persia: will do.
<persia> azeem, Thanks.  I just want to add you to the sync bug so that if the archive admins have questions, you can answer them (as you're more familiar with the package than anyone else)
<persia> Elbrus, And, now that the investigation is complete, it might be a good time to subscribe motu-sru, so they can decide whether they want to look at backporting or relicensing.
<azeem> persia: k, thanks
<Elbrus> persia: I can add motu-sru, but how do I make sure that I found all the build depends? As mentioned before, I still have not found a way to find the packages that build depend. They were mentioned in the bug report.
<slytherin> Elbrus: if you are already running intrepid then use command reverse-build-depends
<persia> Elbrus, grep-dctrl is the tool you want, although I forget the syntax today.
<Elbrus> slytherin: thanks
<Elbrus> turns up one extra package
<persia> heh.  reverse-build-depends is just grep-dctrl wrapped in a bash script so people don't have to remember anything.
<slytherin> persia: right, I stopped using grep-dctrl long time ago
<persia> slytherin, Why?  You know it's a bit more flexible than reverse-build-depends, right?
<slytherin> persia: Yes, but Most of the time All I need to find is reverse build dependencies. :-)
<persia> Also, reverse-build-depends only checks for the contents of your current apt-cache, which may not be clean.  Running wget against archive.ubuntu.com, and piping the results into grep-dctrl is more accurate, and lets you check arbitrary architectures, etc.
<persia> Yeah well.  Some of use don't update our apt-cache with every publisher run :)
<persia> Anyone have a nokia phone and intrepid?
<azeem> persia: mitsuhiko :)
<persia> As much as I can test, bug #287838 looks good, but it'd be nice to have a real user test before we sync.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287838 in wbxml2 "Please sync wbxml2 0.9.2-5 (universe) from Debian Lenny (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287838
<persia> azeem, Sure, but I'm not sure I trust mitsuhiko to also have an intrepid pbuilder or sbuild available to generate a clean binary.
<marrow> Hi all
<azeem> ah, I thought you had binaries lying around
<persia> I have binaries, but no easy way to get them to anyone.
<persia> (at least not in a trusted manner).
<ScottK> persia: At this point I'd do an upload of the preferred package rather than request sync of an older version.
<persia> ScottK, To avoid the chance of confusion?  OK.  I can do that.  You think simulated sync or ubuntu1?
<ScottK> persia: I'd do ubuntu1
<mitsuhiko> persia: just set up the system, not even build essentials :)
<mitsuhiko> oh, and no time ^^
<persia> mitsuhiko, I'm in UTC+9 : lack of time is purely imaginary.
<mitsuhiko> heh
<geser> persia: europe doesn't have more time than you have
<persia> just having set up the system, and not being a regular Ubuntu developer is sufficient that I'm not going to tell you to test it though :)
<persia> geser, No, but it's earlier in the day :)
<NCommander> Does anyone know a good way to simulate a PPC (uploading a source package and getting binaries built automatically?)
<slytherin> NCommander: what do you want to do on ppc?
<NCommander> er, PPA
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> slytherin, I want to generate linux-ports daily images
<slytherin> NCommander: First clear my confusion please. Did you mean PPC (as in in powerpc) or PPA?
<NCommander> slytherin, I'm trying to simulate a PPA so I can build PowerPC packages ;-)
<slytherin> NCommander: I can build on my ibook. But It will take some time to setup pbuilder. I just upgraded to intrepid today.
<NCommander> slytherin, no, I have the hardware, I'm trying to figure out a good way to do daily images for the ports kernel
<NCommander> slytherin, that being said, I am looking for port kernel testers (yay for modern 2.6.27 kernels)
<slytherin> NCommander: Bribe launchpad developers to add powerpc arch to PPA. :-D
<slytherin> NCommander: I am up for testing.
<slytherin> persia: now that openjdk is default on powerpc I hope we will not see any powerpc specific build errors in OOo.
<persia> azeem, Does http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18922574/wbxml2-ubuntu.debdiff look reasonable to you?
<persia> NCommander, falcon and deb-o-matic would both work, assuming you have a powerpc available.
<NCommander> persia, cool. The one thing is I want to be able to have the binaries on one machine, and the builder be another
<NCommander> (i.e., falcon would run on one box, and then I'd have powerpc/sparc/hppa/etc. builders elsewhere)
<persia> NCommander, Haven't you previous experience with dak and wannabuild?
<NCommander> persia, wanna-build and dak both requirement manual ACKing for binaries
<persia> Dunno if either falcon or debomatic is designed for that kind of environment.
<NCommander> Its not really what I'm looking for
<persia> No, they require ACKing of binaries : there's no reason it can't be automated, as long as you don't care about the results.
<NCommander> I might have to simply hack buildd to self-sign with a local GPG key, but I hate coding in perl, and working against GPG is evil
<NCommander> persia, out of the box, there is no way to make it automatic, and my perl sucks
<ScottK> persia: Is there a conclusion on bug 275688?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
 * NCommander was also hoping for something a little lightweight
<persia> ScottK, It's SRU material.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks for looking into it.
<NCommander> I'm out to lunch
<persia> ScottK, No problem.  Thank Elbrus who did most of the investigation.
<ScottK> Elbrus: Thank you.
<ScottK> NCommander: We know that.
<ScottK> Sorry.  It had to be said.
<persia> azeem, Could you confirm I've pulled the critical bit for bug #287838 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287838 in wbxml2 "msynctool of nokia 6120 crashes with 0x43 permission denied libwbxml" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287838
<persia> Could someone with a Nokia phone please confirm that sync works?  I know the binaries work, but it's pointless to upload without a real test.
<persia> (err, that sync works *with* the patch)
<persia> Test case is just attaching your phone, and running msynctool with the updated wbxml2
 * slytherin has to restart the machine
<slytherin> persia: does the patch attached to bug 280679 look reasonable to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280679 in bluez-gnome "bluetooth-applet shows tray icon with "never display icon" enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280679
<persia> slytherin, I don't really like the nested if.
<slytherin> persia: so use case instead?
<slytherin> wait, it will work without nested if
<persia> How about if (icon_policy == ICON_POLICY_ALWAYS || (adapter_present = TRUE && icon_policy != ICON_POLICY_NEVER)) ?
<slytherin> persia: yes that is what I was thinking about.
<persia> s/ = / == /
<persia> That makes it a one-line diff, and easier to understand the logic.
<persia> Upstream wants that too :)
<slytherin> persia: should I prepare debdiff, considering that it is package in main I doubt it will be accepted at this stage
<persia> Ask in #ubuntu-motu if anyone considers it release critical.  I suspect it's SRU or Jaunty.
<slytherin> it is certainly not critical
<persia> If the answer is Jaunty, just push it upstream : they ought accept it fast enough that we don't need to carry a patch.
<persia> Well, if you don't think it's critical, then just send it upstream :)
<slytherin> persia: I am not in QA team so I can not mark the bug with low priority.
<persia> slytherin, Ask someone in #ubuntu-bugs to set the priority
<slytherin> ok
<slytherin> persia: by the way, on my machine, file receiving is not working at all no matter what option I set. So I am not able to check if a simple gconf setting change is sufficient to make file receving work out of box.
<persia> slytherin, Did it work in hardy?
<slytherin> persia: Don't remember. I usually simply browsed the phone file system.
<slytherin> persia: can you try it? I will tell you the gconf setting. If it works by simply changing the setting then I want to push it so that users don't have to install gnome-user-share for making it work.
<persia> slytherin, Which setting?  Which bug?
<slytherin> persia: setting is /apps/bluetooth-manager/receive_enabled bug I will have to hunt down
 * NCommander glares at ScottK
<slytherin> persia: got to go. Office tomorrow.
<slytherin> persia: please don't forget to upload fop.
<persia> The problem with Java is that it requires such a mess of stuff just to build source packages that it's just a pain to sponsor, especially because the specific mix of source packages required varies, so one always has to start from a clean schroot when building source, or the result can FTBFS.
 * ScottK notes that language packs are about to hit, so if you've got something to upload, now's the time.
 * NCommander ducks and covers
<directhex> mono-basic lands in Unstable. huzzah.
<NCommander> directhex, yay
<directhex> i should remove it from revu.
<directhex> debian got there first
<NCommander> directhex, we can backport that to Intrepid/Hardy
<persia> directhex, The package is "mono-basic"?
<directhex> persia, aye
<directhex> persia, well, the source package is.
<persia> That's what I need to archive it :)
<directhex> NCommander, intrepid, no worries. hardy, i dunno if mono-basic 1.9.1 will like hardy's mono 1.2.6
<persia> NCommander, Did you see the issue earlier with a traceback trying to create a new REVU account?  Also, is it possible for REVU to remember who I am, rather than having to log in so often?
<directhex> persia, ta. never wanted it to go in via revu really in the first place - just wanted to try & push the package *somewhere* before the freezefest started across distros
<directhex> i failed, but nevermind ^_^
<NCommander> persia, the later should have been fixed, and RainCT said he was working on the former
<persia> NCommander, Well, it forgot me within a few hours.
<persia> directhex, archived.
<directhex> yay
<directhex> of course, the irony is, who the hell wants a vb.net compiler in the first place? O_o
<persia> Well, actually, perhaps someone will write a useful vb.net program.
<directhex> i don't think anyone writing free software for linux would chose it as a language. but there's a lot of windows people who might be tempted to ubuntu if they can run their existing code, and continue to work on it
<directhex> so it's a case where the compiler is the product for users, rather than the apps being made with it being the product for users
<persia> I was actually thinking that some windows developer might write something interesting, and be willing to release it as free software rather than freeware after being asked nicely.
<directhex> yeah, maybe
<directhex> winforms ahoy :|
<marrow> vb.net source can be compiled with mono, no?
<directhex> marrow, with the vbnc compiler, sure.
<directhex> marrow, where ubuntu has no vbnc
<marrow> So with mono, only c# apps can be compiled?
<directhex> marrow, there are a few CLI compilers in ubuntu. gmcs (c#) is one of them, vbnc (vb.net) is not
<directhex> marrow, off the top of my head, i know ubuntu has CLI compilers for python, nemerle, java, boo, and c#
<jdong> jscript :)
<directhex> yes, jdong is right, that too
<jdong> IIRC the blocker for vbnc was that for quite some time it was actually not buildable in Linux
<jdong> there was some sort of hackery to use MS .NET framework to build one or two assemblies and inject them into the Linux build process
<directhex> it's self-hosting now
<jdong> yeah, now it is
<directhex> so the package requires bootstrap binaries
<directhex> but that's okay, or at least i heard no complaints from ftpmaster@debian
<directhex> and joerg is usually pretty much a hardass on these things
<persia> directhex, You still have bootstrap binaries?  I'd think that once you had it built, you'd want to upload a new version that build-depended on itself and didn't have bootstrap binaries.
<jdong> I think the important thing to point out is VB.NET assemblies compiled on Windows / MS .NET will run on Mono if it's compatible...
<jdong> I think the #1 usecase for VB.NET + Mono is Windows codebases that used Vb.NET
<directhex> persia, frowned upon in debian iirc, since you can't rebuild the archive from scratch
<persia> directhex, Hrm.  But gcc, ghc6, ...
<directhex> persia, file a bug in debian if you're concerned about it. i just went with what i was told to
<persia> directhex, I'm not very concerned - it's just that the practice as explained to me was different than the practice as explained to you.  Since your explanation is probably more recent, it has a better chance of being more accurate today.
<pangloss> So, I have a question, though im not sure this is the right place for it. When 8.10 comes out, will there be significantly less people working on 8.04?
<directhex> persia, you hear 10 different things when asking questions :)
<directhex> pangloss, define "working on"
<pangloss> fixing bugs
<pangloss> triaging
<persia> pangloss, The majority of people who stopped working on 8.04 did so when 8.10 opened for work, not when 8.10 releases.
<pangloss> Ah
<directhex> personally i'm waiting for 9.04 to open! sod 8.10
<persia> pangloss, Some other people didn't stop until around 8.04.1, but many of them (and probably some others) will probably do some work towards 8.04.2 once 8.10 releases, so the number might even go up.
<pangloss> Does that seem to be a significant problem? For instance, are there a lot of bugs that never get fixed in the older versions?
<persia> directhex, that's just because nobody is going to approve any of your uploads before archive close :)
<persia> pangloss, There are thousands of bugs that never get closed in older versions.
<persia> There's no specific goal to close them all : only critical bugs get closed in released versions.
<directhex> persia, i wouldn't expect them to. i know what "freeze" means
<pangloss> persia, right, forgive my niavity
<directhex> pangloss, sometimes fixing a bug is dangerous - what if your fix suddenly changes the way workarounds people have been using for months behave?
<persia> directhex, And you've gotten stuff mostly in shape that you're not chasing loose ends for your packages.
<directhex> pangloss, a "stable release" is meant to, well, not change. that even means bugs, excluding "it just doesn't run 'cos we messed up" bugs and security bugs
<jdong> pangloss: fixing bugs post-release can be a risky endeavor..  typically we only try to nab the risk-free or high-impact ones after release
<persia> pangloss, Nothing to forgive : everyone has to learn sometime.
<jdong> pangloss: behavior change might be undesirable for admins that have been able to effortlessly work around minor kinks, and even worse sometimes fixing one thing breaks something else even more
<persia> It's more than sometimes.
<jdong> :) true.
<pangloss> right, but there are various bugs that sometimes are critical
<jdong> pangloss: because of these risks, Ubuntu has a very stringent policy regarding how updates after releases are done: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<pangloss> are they just abandoned in the old version and fixes are implemented in the new version?
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> pangloss, No.  We try to fix critical bugs using the SRU process.
<pangloss> jdong, thanks for the link
<jdong> sure thing
<pangloss> ah
<persia> On the other hand, there's only so many developers, so they tend to only focus on either *really* critical bugs, or in preparation for update releases for LTS.
<jdong> yeah, and this procedure is so much more tedious than hitting upload blindly on development repos that human nature tends to send developers to newer releases.
<directhex> not forgetting that it's a royal pain in the ass developing on something you don't use
<jdong> nonetheless from my observation important bugs do get fixed after-release at least to a satisfactory level for most users
<persia> jdong, Well, we're not supposed to do it blindly.
<jdong> persia: well... can you really say with a serious face that it doesn't happen a lot? :)
<directhex> so if people upgrade to intrepid or later, the urge to fix old bugs in 8.04 is pretty much nill
<pangloss> persia, so as a newbie to bug fixing and developing, is fixing small bugs in older versions (say 8.04 when 8.10 comes out) fruitful?
<pangloss> or am I just bothering ubuntu-sponsors-main?
<persia> jdong, I can say that I don't do it very often.  I can say that I encourage anyone discovering such a thing to reply to the -changes mail on -devel.  With sufficient peer pressure, the incidence ought be reduced.
<jdong> pangloss: if you find bugs that you feel are useful to be fixed and can be done with low risk, yes, I do feel that is a good thing to do
<persia> pangloss, Unless it's a critical bug (as defined on the SRU page), you'd do better to suggest fixes for the release-in-development.
<jdong> persia: I trust that you don't do it often, if at all. I try not to either. But definitely I've seen plenty of uploads where I had to question if any testing was done at all before uploading
<pangloss> ok
<persia> jdong, I've seen uploads where the uploader said afterwards that they didn't test it.  Doesn't make it a good thing, nor something we should accept as common practice.
<pangloss> persia, what about packages that are for debian that aren't in 8.04, but could be
<jdong> persia: agreed
<persia> pangloss, How do you mean?
<pangloss> is it useless to create an ubuntu package out of it?
<persia> Yes, completely.
<pangloss> or something from source
<jdong> pangloss: if you're talking about new packages for 8.04, see the backports project
<pangloss> really?
<persia> They all get autosynced from Debian when the next archive opens.
<jdong> pangloss: we can take some packages from Sid and development repos to make them available for older releases
<jdong> but please don't directly make packages for older releases.
<persia> Once the autosync occurs, as jdong mentions, they can be backported.
<pangloss> ah
<jdong> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<pangloss> so the add/remove programs gets repopulated with packages that are for the newer release?
<jdong> generally for older releases, no.
<persia> add/remove programs contains a subset of packages available in that release.
<pangloss> right
<pangloss> hm
<persia> To get newer packages, one either has to enable backports and use a different package manager, or wait.
<persia> (well, there are also other means, but from that point they get increasingly difficult or risky)
<pangloss> so how long does it take for work to start on the next release after 8.10 comes out?
<jdong> within a week or two
<persia> jdong, Do we care about Debian bug #442668 for intrepid?
<ubottu> Debian bug 442668 in reprepro "reprepro: newer BDB" [Unknown,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/442668
<pangloss> do the devel guys enjoy 8.10 for a little or is it on to 9.04 right away?
<pangloss> ah
<jdong> initially uploads are blocked-ish while new compilers, etc get uploaded
<jdong> then it's bombs away.
<jdong> persia: err... I'm not very informed on reprepo
<NCommander> persia, I'll bug RainCT about it, he did all that work
<persia> jdong, You aren't?  I thought it was your tool.  Is that something else?
<jdong> persia: prevu :)
<persia> NCommander, OK.  Thanks.
<persia> jdong, My apologies then :)
 * persia demotes the bug
<jdong> no probs :)
 * RainCT corrects his statement from this morning: its seems like there are actually lots of Mozilla guys using Ubuntu, but they use Mac for slides because it always works with projectors
<persia> pangloss, Some developers upgrade as soon as the new archve opens, some delay as late as beta.  Those with multiple computers may delay one or more machines even later, but there are almost no developers who are still not updated by beta on at least one machine.
<RainCT> NCommander: uhm.. you said my name? :P
<RainCT> if it's about the problem that new users can't login, I'm about to fix it
<jdong> RainCT: sounds reasonable
<jdong> RainCT: I've been guilty of booting into OS X on my Macbook for presentations too
<pangloss> persia, thank you for the information, I appreciate it
<jdong> I've had Xrandr explode too many times to trust it :D
<ScottK> Did someone else from motu-release ack wine, fop, or wbxml2?
<NCommander> RainCT, it was also cookies should be storied longer on login
<persia> Oh, probably not fop and wbxml2 : I suspect I've been following the wrong procedure.
<RainCT> NCommander: yeah, that's a problem with mod_python.Sessions
<ScottK> Up through Gutsy my Kubuntu laptop worked well with projectors.
<persia> I didn't see any traffic about wine.
<ScottK> Hardy, not so much.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Did you get a motu-release approval for wine?
<RainCT> I'd suggest a patch but they've no bug tracker and I don't feel like subscribing to yet another mailing list
<persia> Intrepid projector support is *very* broken unless your laptop happens to have exactly the same resolution as your projector, and you're willing to restart X.
<directhex> does tilting a mouse tiltwheel still crash x on intrepid? that was a sucky regression in hardy
<NCommander> persia, on reprepro, we can skip it if we don't mind carrying db4.3 for one more release
<persia> NCommander, It's too late to look, which is why I marked it unimportant.
<ScottK> persia: Is there a bug about projector support being broken that's hinted at the release notes?
<jdong> persia: and may the overlords have mercy on your soul if compiz were running or you want to show a video :)
<RainCT> REVU signup (ie, first login) should be working again
<persia> ScottK, Not to my knowledge.  It's not *more* broken than it was really, just frustratingly annoying.  If you're hunting a bug, it might be listed also under "external monitor support".
<persia> RainCT, Please reply to the ML mail :)
<ScottK> persia: I'm only barely here and have no idea about such things on Ubuntu.  It just sounded worth a release note.
<persia> jdong, Actually, that doesn't work so badly for the right video card.
<persia> ScottK, It shouldn't work any better on Kubuntu : something about the way X works this cycle.
<jdong> persia: obviously I don't have the right video card then :)
<persia> From my (limited) exploration, it's *really* hard to get xrandr to handle two screens with different resolutions, because it wants to put all physical devices in a single logical screen.
 * persia looks for a bug
<persia> ScottK, Do you think it's a regression from hardy?
<ScottK> persia: As I said, I have no idea about such things on Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Multiple monitor support being broken was release noted in Hardy for Kubuntu, but not Ubuntu.
<RainCT> persia: sure, done
<persia> ScottK, Hrm.  Interesting.  So officially not a regression for Kubuntu.  Well, it's worth asking.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Just to make it clear, for Ubuntu, I'm not asking.
<persia> ScottK, Understood.  I'll ask.  the information that it was release-noted for Kubuntu 8.04 and not Ubuntu is the part that makes me do that.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> It was only release noted for Kubuntu because I knew how broken it was and wrote the release note.  I thought (at the time) that the Ubuntu xrandr tool made Ubuntu OKish.
<persia> The tool is limited to what xrandr can do, which doesn't include non-rectangular geometries.
<YokoZar> ScottK: not yet, sorry.  I want that upload to wait until ia32-libs is fixed since Wine will need a rebuild
<YokoZar> ScottK: been gone for the past few days and didn't realized we slipped into full freeze mode :)
<persia> So even if Kubuntu has an xrandr widget for intrepid, it doesn't fix the underlying issue.
<ScottK> I see.
<ScottK> Yeah we do.  I've been trying to get a projector to give it a workout.
<ScottK> My next chance, unfortunately, is Thursday.
<ScottK> YokoZar: I don't know of any ia-32libs upload pending.
<persia> Well, if it's higher resolution than your laptop, you'll run into navigation issues, and if it's lower resolution than your laptop, you'll run into scaling issues, and in either case, you'll have issues with Xv *unless* you run them in mirror mode.
<persia> (and you'll have issues with Xv in mirror mode if you have jdong's graphics card)
<persia> jdong, Do you get bug #206528 or bug #227048?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206528 in x11-xserver-utils "gnome-display-properties: no way to set which is the primary monitor" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206528
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227048 in x11-xserver-utils "pages that use mplayer make secondary monitor in a dual-head system flicker" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227048
<jdong> persia: I'm not sure. I get a lot more of black striped screen of doom.
<persia> Ah, that's not just xrandr then : that's the driver.
<jdong> indeed
<FAJ> hi in ndiswrapper, how can i change the driver from ndiswrapper to ath_pci?
<jdong> it makes me jealous that now it seems like both proprietary drivers are doing better....
<persia> jdong, Hrm?  I have intel graphics, and I can do Xv in mirror mode.
<jdong> persia: maybe it's just user error
<jdong> my intel driver has been giving me a lot of various grief recently
<jdong> I'm scared for my life to switch between X/Compiz and VTs
<persia> Or maybe something changed in the last three weeks.  I don't use my external monitor because it senses wrong (even though it is the same resolution as my laptop)
<YokoZar> ScottK: pitti is rebuilding it now
<FAJ> hi in ndiswrapper, how can i change the driver from ndiswrapper to ath_pci?
<FAJ> i asked in #ubuntu, with no answer
<persia> FAJ, Are you running hardy or intrepid?
<FAJ> hardy
<persia> FAJ, Hmm.  That nobody in the support channel answered doesn't make the development channel a support channel.  You might try a local channel, if there is one for your area.
<FAJ> *sigh* ok...
<RainCT> btw, if anyone here is using Ubiquity (the Mozilla extension, not our installer), future versions are going to rock! :P
<NCommander> jdong, ping
<coppro> what exactly does ubiquity do?
<pangloss> coppro, http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/08/introducing-ubiquity/
<ScottK> YokoZar: OK.
<RainCT> coppro: well, it sorta connects different webpages
<RainCT> coppro: so, to put an example, if you're writing an email to a friend telling him that you'll meet him at a certan address, you can just select that address and tell ubiquity to get a map, and that'll insert a map taken from Google Maps into the mail
<coppro> cool
<RainCT> coppro: you can also select some text and get it translated on place (replacing the original text), and lots of other cool stuff
<ScottK> persia: Did someone in motu-release ack your wbxml12 upload?
<RainCT> coppro: and well, right now you can launch a dialog with a key combination and start typing the name of the action you want to do there (like with GNOME Do), but there are plans to add alternative workflows, like integration into the awesome bar or that selecting a text and then opening a new tab would not show a blank page, but instead different commands that match the text (automatically detecting what you're likely to want to do with it), and 
<ScottK> Oh, wait.  I did.
<coppro> the awesome bar?
<RainCT> (did all of my message arrive?)
<RainCT> coppro: that's the location bar in Firefox 3 :P
<persia> ScottK, As I said before, I think I only got one ack (you) for each of fop and wbxml2
<coppro> heh
<coppro> ff3 is indeed awesome
<ScottK> persia: OK.
<ScottK> It's been a busy day.
<persia> ScottK, Understood, and a succession of long ones, from your traffic stats.
<ScottK-palm> Am I far off if I estimate it'll be about 6 hours for the lang packs on the I386 buildds?
<geser> ScottK-palm: there are over 900 language-packs and if you assume around 4 minutes to build (my sample are the build times for -de and -fr) you're quite correct with 6 hours
<geser> hmm, I guess it's to late for me do to maths :(
<geser> s/to/too/
<lifeless> 3600 minutes if its serial  @ 4minutes each
<geser> that would be 60 hours or 2Â½ days
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> hey geser
<geser> Hi NCommander
<geser> I guess a better way would be to monitor https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/ and interpolate how long it takes to empty the queue
<geser> currently there are 608 packages waiting in the queue
<NCommander> geser, how goes it?
<ScottK-palm> See you later. I expect we might still be able to get uploads in after.
<geser> ScottK: afaik language-packs are scored to the bottom of the build queue so normal uploads should get processed without much delay
<geser> ScottK-palm: afaik language-packs are scored to the bottom of the build queue so normal uploads should get processed without much delay
<ScottK-palm> I'd appreciate it if someone would look at the post-upload discussion in Bug 288957 and make a recommendation.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288957 in virtualbox-ose "New upstream version available (2.0.4)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288957
<ScottK-palm> geser: But main goes ahead of universe.  Would lang packs go ahead of universe?
<ScottK-palm> I'll read the scrollback laterm
<ScottK-palm> ... later.
<persia> Langpacks are usually scored behind universe, but might be ahead today just because they're so critical.
 * StevenK merges strongswan
<StevenK> Even if I might be a little late
<TheMuso> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-19
<ScottK> james_w: It looks like you've been keeping qbzr up to date.  Are you up for packaging their new upstream release (fixes a critical bug)?
<maco> any kde cdbs ninjas around?
<JontheEchidna> o/
<maco> JontheEchidna: im trying to fix a FTBFS. so far ive found that "debian/rules build" works dandy. "debian/rules binary", however, deletes *.cpp then whines because it cant find the code. all thats in rules in includes for debhelper.mk and kde.mk ... any idea what's up?
<JontheEchidna> hmm
<JontheEchidna> what package?
<maco> darkroom
<maco> JontheEchidna: ^
<JontheEchidna> ergh, forgot about that one. I re-upped darkroom for a library transition and it failed
<JontheEchidna> hmm, the best I can think, maybe something in the translation-stripper code is deleting the file for some reason
<JontheEchidna> perhaps a corner case bug in the translation cdbs code
<JontheEchidna> That's the only place where I know that the cdbs rules actually delete anything
<maco> i dont think i have the translation stripper package installed in my pbuilder
<JontheEchidna> kde.mk does it's own thing for translation handling in order to work with binarypkgmangler, so it gets run even when binarypkgmangler isn't installed
<maco> so you think kde.mk deletes .cpp files?
<maco> blah
<JontheEchidna> try setting KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=true in debian/rules
<dtchen> superm1: any possibility you could install alsa-utils_1.0.20-2ubuntu3 from LP librarian and use the procedure in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/352732/comments/63, please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352732 in pulseaudio "[jaunty] Sound muted after boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<maco> ok
<JontheEchidna> really it should only be deleting .pot files, but it could be misbehaving
<dtchen> superm1: I can't reproduce the symptom at all, but you and others seem to be able to
<maco> JontheEchidna: i did echo "KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=true" >> debian/rules and then debian/rules binary and it still deleted teh cpps
<JontheEchidna> meh :(
<maco> (there are no editors installed in pbuilder AFAICT)
 * JontheEchidna has a hook that installs nano un-permanently upon build failure
<wgrant> maco: There aren't any editors, but you can vim from outside.
<maco> i had to pick a very WTF build failure, didnt i?
<JontheEchidna> heh
<dtchen> I'd much rather deal with FTBFS than angry users and angry upstreams.
<maco> haha good point. your side of the room is full of grrrr right now
 * JontheEchidna wonders if cmake.mk would suffice in darkroom's case
<maco> s/kde/cmake/ ?
<maco> w/ sed on rules?
 * maco tries
<JontheEchidna> /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/cmake.mk
<maco> that...appears to have worked!
<JontheEchidna> then that definitely means something in kde.mk is borked
<JontheEchidna> or more likely one of kde.mk's included .mk files
<JontheEchidna> I wonder if it would work if you unincluded kubuntu.mk in kde.mk
 * JontheEchidna will play around with it a bit
<JontheEchidna> if it is, I will add it to my list of "things I do fixing our rosetta compat that keep me from doing better things"
<maco> hahaha
<lex79> JontheEchidna: btw it's KUBUNTU_NO_DELETE_POT=1 and not =true, does it the same thing?
<JontheEchidna> lex79: hmm, maybe it should be 1, not sure
<lex79> yes it's =1, but I'm wondering if you set =true, it's the same
<JontheEchidna> not sure
<JontheEchidna> the fact that we have to have such a workaround is bullcrap in the first place
<JontheEchidna> (where a universe package requires the .pot to build and doesn't have a Messages.sh around to generate a fresh .pot)
<lex79> uhm yes
<JontheEchidna> just more proof of the unmaintainability of kubuntu's translation stack at the moment [/rant]
<JontheEchidna> ha, it is kubuntu translation stuff causing the failure
 * JontheEchidna officially adds this to the list of "things I do fixing our rosetta compat that keep me from doing better things"
<maco> JontheEchidna: lovely. well guess what? the program doesnt work after its compiled ANYWAY
<JontheEchidna> could be a consequence of not using kde.mk
<maco> nah bug 381986
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 381986 in darkroom "No images displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381986
<maco> for me, it does that bug, then it crashes on an assert
<maco> also, the svn date attached to the package is in DDMMYYYY order so it wont sort right -_
<maco> -_-
<superm1> dtchen, no my problem appears to be different.  my volumes weren't getting muted, they just weren't being stored at all (most likely due to a problem that FLAG stuff)
<wrapster> what is the use of dirs in the debian directory?
<hyperair> up to the packager
<hyperair> generally they are temporary directories to make install files into before packing them off into debs
<hyperair> or debian/patches for patches
<hyperair> or some other custom directories for other things
<wrapster> ok ...no harm in removing it though right? supposing i dont require it
<hyperair> what directory, and what's in it exactly?
<Laney> I think he means debian/dirs
<Laney> it's for creating empty directories in your package
<hyperair> oh!
 * hyperair headdesks
<YokoZar> Bah, new upstream release of spring-engine today that breaks multiplayer sync unless you update...
<YokoZar> Guess I may be able to sneak it in to karmic
<LucidFox> So, what happened to ffmpeg?
<LucidFox> The -unstripped packages have been removed, correct?
<ScottK> YokoZar: FFe for fixing a game is generally easy.
<dtchen> superm1: well, your symptom was different, but the root cause for both yours and the others lies in alsa-utils
<dtchen> superm1: it's probably best to just revert the initscript to the version in 1.0.20-2ubuntu3
<joaopinto> there is also an warzone upgrade breaking network compatibility
<ScottK> joaopinto: Getting an FFe for that should be easy.
<JontheEchidna> maco: I got darkroom to build with kde.mk, mind if I upload? The problem was that quilt.mk wasn't being included, so our FTBFS patch that was already there wasn't being applied.
<JontheEchidna> mm, maybe it should be removed from the archive. It really doesn't work
<Rhonda> Hi. My brother wants to install ubuntu on his new laptop and I want to burn the CD for him. I need it tonight so I can't wait for the next RC or such. Is the beta linked from the main page the best option, or shall I fetch a daily build?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work bddebian
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work, sebner
<sebner> sistpoty|work: it seems we need to stick with a backport for nexuiz :(
<sistpoty|work> sebner: looks like it :/
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I made fuddl some pressure 2 days ago but the only progress was the update to 2.5.2 and breakage for -data xD
<CarlFK> why doesn't the python package include python binary?  http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/all/python/filelist
<JontheEchidna> CarlFK: that's all kept in the python=<versionnumber> package that the python package depends on
<JontheEchidna> !info python hardy
<ubottu> python (source: python-defaults): An interactive high-level object-oriented language (default version). In component main, is important. Version 2.5.2-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 137 kB, installed size 600 kB
<JontheEchidna> yeah, that depends on the python-2.5 package which has the binary
<JontheEchidna> oh, actually the binary is in python-minimal
<CarlFK> python-minimal not have readline ?
 * JontheEchidna doesn't know what readline is
<CarlFK> apparently it is what makes back-arrow move the cursor back
<joaopinto> sebner, can't you just file an FFe for nexuiz ?
<JontheEchidna> ah, a function
<CarlFK> as opposed to >>> ^[[D
<sebner> joaopinto: Debian version isn't ready and I refuse to upload anything else
<joaopinto> sebner, so you prefer to keep a non working version :)
<sebner> joaopinto: why non-working?
<joaopinto> sebner, wasn't the network protocol changed ?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: do you know something about that?
<zul> dholbach: i need your mad skillz
<dholbach> zul: my mad skills?
<zul> dholbach: yeah can you translate this for me https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nis/+bug/307167/comments/2 ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307167 in nis "NIS with LTSP" [Low,Incomplete]
<sebner> joaopinto: didn't found any corresponding bug report. Besides I'm wondering what's with all the PPA versions. I doubt they are really correct when DM has such problem with it (e.g Upstream checksums on the files etc )
<dholbach> zul: "ok unfortunately I need to reply in German now. the problem is that NIS users can authenticate to a ltsp client but can't use usb sticks or any usb devices. it doesn't matter if it's ldm or gdm. in my opinion this is about group permissions. entries in the NSSWITCH file were not made use of. I tried lots of different howtos they all didn't work out"
<ghostcube> german is a mad skill rofl
<ghostcube> havent known this til now
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> firefox 3.5.4 drives me nuts
<ghostcube> :D
<zul> dholbach: merci beacoup
<dholbach> de rien
<ghostcube> :O
<sistpoty|work> sebner: no, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if nexuiz changed the network protocol
<ghostcube> the game ?
<sistpoty|work> yes
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/python-minimal says "See /usr/share/doc/python-minimal/README.Debian for a list of the modules contained in this package. "  that file does not have the list
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I have 2.5.1 installed now though but I don't think so. I only read about improving the protocol so downloads work faster now
<CarlFK> anyone know where the list is?
<ghostcube> http://www.getdeb.net/changes.php?id=4236  would be mentioned here so far if anything happened in the game proto
<sistpoty|work> sebner: you'll need to test it then :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: heh true but I only have 1mbit currently :(
<ghostcube>  Totally rewritten Client/Server communication to cut the bandwidth
<ghostcube>        usage in half
<sistpoty|work> heh
<CarlFK> found it: /usr/share/doc/python2.6-minimal/README.Debian
<ghostcube> so sebner i think they have done anything in the proto thingy
<ghostcube> :)
<joaopinto> open source games tend to change the protocol on each realease :P
<ghostcube> hi joaopinto heh
<sebner> ghostcube: the question is if it's still compatible with version 2.4.x which we have in ubuntu, I think so
<ghostcube> sebner: ehm havent played it a long time
<ghostcube> may joaopinto knows it
<sebner> sistpoty|work: do you have karmic version installed right no? We need a deep test :P :P :P
<joaopinto> nah, I am not an FPS player, I have just tested the latest version, it works
<sistpoty|work> sebner: sorry, no gaming at work for me :(
<joaopinto> event he single player, which was broken due to the checksum validation
<sebner> joaopinto: ack
<sebner> joaopinto: did you fix it (playdeb has 2.5.2 now right)
<joaopinto> yes, it was packaged when it was released, there have been no failure reports until now
<sebner> joaopinto: what did you do about the checksum problem?
<joaopinto> sebner, after reading a svn commit on the debian games team just dropped the changes to default.cfg, I believe it was that, it was c_korn doing the package I think
<sebner> joaopinto: ah I think the main problem is that Debian/Ubuntu package removes the "Upgrade to foox.y" messages and that requires file editing which violates the checksums etc
<joaopinto> oh, the upgrade check
<joaopinto> I am not that familiar with the package :|
<ghostcube> sebner: c_korn is the package guru
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> _-_
<sebner> ghostcube: well "guru" is a really strong word ;)
<sistpoty|work> if I read it correctly, the problem was(is?) that the compiled binary didn't match the precompiled sources, due to a makefile missing
<ghostcube> for me he is :D
<ghostcube> iam really weak in packaging
<ghostcube> heh
<sebner> sistpoty|work: yeah something like that + upgrad message
 * sistpoty|work didn't read commit mails in detail :P
<soren> siretart: Why are we disabling AAlib in mplayer nowadays?
<soren> siretart: Argh, because Debian does it.
<soren> siretart: bug #455535
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455535 in mplayer "AAlib output disabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455535
<soren> siretart: I'm hesitant to just go and fix it. mplayer is a scary package :)
<superm1> dtchen, yes the init script from ubuntu3 does DTRT too
<superm1> (just reverted to it to test)
<wrapster> im trying to compile libnspr to support 64bit and running into issues.. http://pastie.org/660729 ..Platform is 64bit enabled..
<wrapster> Its not purely ubuntu but since its with regard to packaging im raising my query here.. sorry if im wrong..!!
<sistpoty|work> wrapster: I guess looking at configure.ac/.in for the failing test might be useful
<wrapster> ok
<wrapster> sistpoty|work: one more doubt.. for compiling this pkg should i first ensure that all the dependecies are in 64bi
<wrapster> t*
<wrapster> then go ahead and try building this.
<sistpoty|work> wrapster: no idea, really. I assume you need at least the libs it build-depends on in 64 bit, *shrug*
<wrapster> ok
<zooko> Folks, have any MOTU been considering trying to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plexus-container-default/+bug/417164 in Karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417164 in maven2 "latest plexus packages breaks Maven" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<zooko> I try not to use Java, but this does look like a significant problem for a significant fraction of potential Karmic users.
<MagicFab> I am new to the sync'ing process, specially past feature freeze. I am wondering if anyone could provide information on how likely it is to get a featurefreeze exception for this one:
<MagicFab> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monit/+bug/426402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426402 in monit "New version available in Debian. Upgrade for Karmic?" [Undecided,New]
<MagicFab> We've added missing information now. Can anyone take a quick look and tell me if anything else is missing ? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monit/+bug/426402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426402 in monit "New version available in Debian. Upgrade for Karmic?" [Undecided,New]
<zooko> MagicFab: I'm not an MOTU, just a random kibitzer, but it looks like the update of monit will go into 10.04.
<zooko> "Declined for Karmic by Brian Murray
<zooko> "
<iulian> zooko: I believe doko looks after that bug.
<iulian> MagicFab: Looking.
<MagicFab> zooko, I am asking Brian if this was just "incomplete ->  declined" or actually "even if complete info was provide -> declined"
<james_w> he declined the nomination as this presumably isn't a release critical bug
<james_w> if we can release karmic with the current version without the sky falling then it's not release critical
<james_w> it doesn't mean that it can't happen for karmic
<james_w> the terminology is a tad confusing though
<MagicFab> right, apparently upstream doesn't know about the process and missed our dates. they release came out just ~10 days after our freezes
<iulian> MagicFab: OK, as far as I can see there are loads of bugs fixed.  Could you please attach the ChangeLog to the bug report?
<MagicFab> iulian, a colleague just attached it AFAIK. Do you require the full Debian changelog ?
<iulian> I'd like the upstream ChangeLog.
<iulian> Are there any packages that depend on monit?
<iulian> (I cannot check myself atm)
<MagicFab> iulian, no reverse depends, no
<MagicFab> iulian, upstream log is at http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/monit/monit_5.0.3-3/changelog - is it ok if I just add that link to the bug report ? (sorry, I've never done this)
<james_w> http://mmonit.com/monit/dist/CHANGES.txt
<james_w> ^ that's what you need
<iulian> Indeed, thanks james_w.
<MagicFab> james_w, tx.
<MagicFab> iulian, OK, added all changes since 4.10 to the report.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I've received an email saying that the upload of mandos (a sync request) failed with a "duplicate key value violates unique constraint "person__account__key"" error. What can I do to fix it?
<iulian> MagicFab: Thanks.  Have you done any testing with it?
<MagicFab> iulian, personnally no. I am inquiring because we have a 24/7 customer asking for it, presumably they have.
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: sounds like bug 408528 (AFAIK, as a workaround, it should be reuploaded by a different person)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408528 in soyuz "Packages build but fail to upload due to email address issue" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528
<fabrice_sp> randomaction, it's a sync request, so it has been uploaded by an archive admin
<fabrice_sp> should have been fixed on the 15th...
<iulian> MagicFab: OK, that's good.
<iulian> MagicFab: +1 from me.
<randomaction> fabrice_sp: The error message is mentioned here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/23/%23launchpad.txt
<MagicFab> iulian, willing & able to test should we have to.
<iulian> MagicFab: You'll now need a second and final ack from another release member.
<iulian> I've just subscribed motu-release.
<randomaction> How do I enable pkgstriptranslations in pbuilder? Is installing pkgbinarymangler sufficient?
<chrisccoulson> randomaction - i think you need to configure it to strip the translations too (i'm sure it doesn't do it by default)
<chrisccoulson> i can't remember off the top of my head though, as it's been a while since i set it up
<randomaction> chrisccoulson: thanks, I'll try to find and read the docs
<chrisccoulson> randomaction - the settings are in /etc/pkgbinarymangler
<chrisccoulson> i think they're quite self-explanatory
<randomaction> great, thanks
<chrisccoulson> yw
<quentusrex> I need help handling configs
<quentusrex> I have separated the configs into their own package,
<quentusrex> but I need a way to handle when the file has been edited...
<quentusrex> rather than just replacing the config files on disk.
<MagicFab> iulian, Thank you.
<dpm> randomaction, I think you've probably figured it out, but you can find more info on pkgbinarymangler here as well -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation#Verifying translation uploads
<randomaction> dpm: thanks, maybe the pbuilder instructions page should include a bit about pkgbinarymangler as well (I'm working on a case where a package fails to build and default setup of pbuilder didn't catch it)
<dpm> good point. I'll mention it to dholbach tomorrow.
<maco> ya know, he's actually in the channel right now...
<dholbach> dpm: if anybody wants to add it, add it
<dholbach> doesn't need to block on me :)
<dpm> dholbach, sure, I just wanted to at least let you know, I'll go for it :)
 * dholbach hugs dpm
 * dpm hugs back
 * zooko hugs everyone.  Except for the people who didn't want that.
<hyperair> it depends. what gender are you of? ;-)
<schmichael> hi, i'm working on improving the packaging of mongodb and was wondering where to learn about packages that create new system users
<schmichael> tried looking at postgres's source package with no luck
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, is your ack in Bug #425640 also valid for 2.41-1? (you gave it for 2.36-1)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425640 in get-iplayer "Please sync get-iplayer 2.41-1 from Debian" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425640
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Sure, whatever works
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
<micahg> ugh
<micahg> phpmyadmin requires a new package from debian...
<micahg> didn't notice that before
<qnix> In debian directory, files "*.files" are deprecated ? It's "*.install" now?
<Zhenech> basically yes
<Zhenech> syntax is bit different IIRC
<qnix> I see that the ".dirs" file is in the .install too.
<schmichael> can anyone point me in the right direction to learn about how to make a package create a new user?
<micahg> ScottK: the new phpmyadmin requires a new package to be imported from debian, is it too late?
 * schmichael is working on packaging mongodb
<Zhenech> qnix, .dirs is mostly unneeded anyways, but its not deprecated afaik
<qnix> Zhenech: ok, will remove them anyway
<joaopinto> micahg, are you concerned about the security vuln on phpmyadmin ?
<joaopinto> I remember someone was working on it...
<micahg> well, it was uploaded
<micahg> and I was given "credit" for it, but there was a new point release since I requested the sync
<micahg> debian modified the package to have a new dependency
<micahg> and that version was imported
<micahg> so now the package is broken
<joaopinto> erm, a sync request without being checked ?
<siretart> soren: what's scary about mplayer? - IMO the most scary thing is the fact that it is maintained in git :-)
<micahg> no, when I made the request it was fine, it was when a newer version than I requested was imported
<siretart> soren: regarding aalib, feel free to fix and upload, I can import it then to our packaging branch then
<kees> moto-release: hi!  I have policycoreutils waiting for a push -- this fixes a bug pointed out by Tresys.  afaict, it is not seeded on any ISO, so it should be okay to push.
<ScottK> kees: Bug fix only stuff that's unseeded is good for upload without approval
<kees> ScottK: I've uploaded it -- I figured it just needed a manual push,.
<ScottK> Lookimg
<ScottK> looking even
<ScottK> kees: Accepted
<kees> ScottK: cool, thanks.  I'll have another one in a second (setools, bug 455719)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455719 in setools "lacks module version 10 support" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455719
<ScottK> OK.  Ping me and I'll accept it
<kees> cool
<micahg> ScottK: what can I do about phpmyadmin requiring a new package?
<ScottK> micahg: Does the new version fix any critical bugs?
<micahg> ScottK: someone already uploaded it in my name
<micahg> it was for a security fix
<micahg> but it was a newer version than I originally requested
<micahg> so now the package is broken
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  I guess do an FFe for the new package explaining it.
<micahg> ok, do I use the request sync tool?
<ari-tczew> ubuntu-universe-sponsors: please upload bug-fix package, bug #455744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455744 in tinyproxy "[FFe] New upstream bug-fix release 1.6.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455744
<ajmitch> from the look of the phpmyadmin changelog, the new package is one that phpmyadmin was bundling anyway
<micahg> yeah, they had their own version of the library
<ajmitch> I guess requestsync would work, just make sure you put in an explanation & subscribe motu-release
<micahg> does requestsync send an e-mail?
<micahg> nm
 * micahg figured out how to read a man page :P
<micahg> ScottK: do you need the bug #, or was subscribing motu-release enough?
<ScottK> Subscribing motu-release is enough
<micahg> ok, thanks ScottK
<kees> ScottK: ping, setools ready for pushing.  thanks!
<ScottK> kees: Done
<kees> ScottK: cool
<AlanBell> Hi all
<AlanBell> I have added a fullscreen mode to gwibber
<AlanBell> so that it can be used at conferences and suchlike on a projector
<AlanBell> can someone point me at some documentation on how I can contribute this feature back?
<jcastro> AlanBell: is the branch on launchpad?
<jcastro> that would be very useful!
<jcastro> (fullscreen I mean)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-20
<ianm_> looking for someone interested in packaging Luz-- a VJ / music visualizer / graphic fun time / live-performance app.  it's ruby and a couple C++ apps.  100% of dependencies are already in ubuntu repos.  many posts about it here http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com
<sladen> ianm_: oooh, colourful.  I reckon that might be best trying to get that into Debian first
<sladen> ianm_: Ubuntu people are all busy through to debug issues for the release next week
<sladen> ianm_: and if it's in Debian then in a month it'll get pulled automatically into the next release of Ubuntu
<ianm_> sladen: all good points, thanks.  is there a channel specifically for debian packagers?
<sladen> ianm_: start at #debian on irc.debian.org
<sladen> ianm_: I'd personally drop an email to  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/  requesting somebody packaging it, with a couple of paragraphs introduction and easy to click links to the webpage, and source code
<ScottK> ianm_: #debian-mentors
<AdamDH> whats the cut off date to get some packages into Karmic?
<jcastro> like a month ago?
<AdamDH> probally missed that then!
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<zooko> You're just in time to get some packages into Lucid Lynx!  :-)
<AdamDH> zooko, I will do that, at least I am early
<ScottK> Even better get them into Debian and they arrive into Lucid automatically
<runasand> ScottK: how .. often is packages synced from Debian to Ubuntu?
<runasand> or is it only 'when requested'?
<ScottK> runasand: For ~ the first half of the release cycle automatically every few days
<runasand> ah ok :)
<tonyyarusso> Does anyone know if TrueCrypt's license has changed sufficiently to be re-considered for universe or multiverse?  (http://www.truecrypt.org/legal/license)
<tonyyarusso> (albeit perhaps under a different name, a la firefox v. iceweasel)
<directhex> it's a long license. hard to give a snap judgement
<jdong> Phrase "Based on TrueCrypt, freely available at http://www.truecrypt.org/" must be displayed by Your Product (if technically feasible) and contained in its documentation.
<jdong> is that considered a non-Free clause already?
<jdong> (I think multiverse-wise truecrypt shoudl be fine)
<jdong> though of course I can't say in 2 minutes I've read this thing!
<tonyyarusso> directhex: Yeah - annoying that way
<tonyyarusso> I'm still only partway through myself, after reading some commentary on debian MLs and Fedora's wiki
<tonyyarusso> It seems it in the past was inadmissable, but changes frequently, progressing towards more freeness.
<directhex> fedora's attitude is weird. they *want* to be super-Free-only, but they seem to have no coherent deterministic policy - seems more like gut feeling much of the time
<directhex> generally, i mea
<directhex> n
<tonyyarusso> At the time of Fedora's last comment (in 2008), their legal team was of the opinion that the license placed risk on the distributor.  I haven't found that yet reading this now though.
<Flannel> The only saving grace bits are that it exempts "Your product" to be just the stuff directly around truecrypt when dealing with aggregate/OS stuff (see definition 4)
<tonyyarusso> Oh gross.
<Flannel> tonyyarusso: No, that's better than what I remember.  Of course, I don't really remember much about what it was
<Flannel> but back in the day it was a pretty nasty license
<tonyyarusso> You may allow a third party to use Your copy of This Product (or a copy that You make and distribute, or Your Product) provided that the third party overtly accepts and agrees to be bound by all terms and conditions of this License and the third party is not prohibited from using This Product (or portions thereof) by this License (see, e.g., Section VI.7) or by applicable law. However, You are not obligated to ensure that the third par
<tonyyarusso> ^^ Does that mean it needs a debconf acceptance like Java?
<tonyyarusso> Flannel: Yeah - I'm hoping maybe it's been fixed enough to finally be packaged - this has been a wishlist for years.
<Flannel> tonyyarusso: Yeah, I imagine their license issues are hurting their userbase significantly
<tonyyarusso> Me, for instance.
<tonyyarusso> I'd love to use it, as it's the only package I know of that offers plausible deniability through containers, but I'd want it in the repos first.
<tonyyarusso> If people here (like jdong and Flannel) think it's at least close, I'll re-open the needs-packaging request so it can be looked at by people with legal expertise, but I wanted to get feedback from you guys first before I waste some lawyer's time.
<jdong> tonyyarusso: my opinion is that it's gonna be close
<jdong> tonyyarusso: and my gut feeling also is that the truecrypt team would be at least willing to be cooperative with a userbase as big as Ubuntu
<tonyyarusso> That'd be helpful.
<YokoZar> ianm_: I'd also file a launchpad needs-packaging bug if you haven't already
<YokoZar> File it against Ubuntu, name it like [needs-packaging] foo, and tag it needs-packaging as well
<YokoZar> then it'll end up in all the nice lists we link to on the wiki for people who want to contribute
<ScottK> At a glance, I think it's fine for multiverse
<ScottK> Really obnoxious, but legal
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Was there something you see preventing it from universe?
<ScottK> The license acceptance thing
<tonyyarusso> Gotcha.
<tonyyarusso> btw, if anyone who's in here is interested in following up on that later, the relevant bug is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/109701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109701 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Truecrypt" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<schmichael> how
<schmichael> ack
<schmichael> sorry :)
<AlanBell> @ping
<AlanBell> !ping
<ubottu> pong!
<wrapster> im trying to build a pkg for 64bit and i have some very basic ques.... are --enable-64bit(in ./configure) and -m64(in gcc) doing the same thing? can i use either of them, at appropriate places or both?
<wrapster> is Tim spriggs here.
 * maco does the I-Need-A-Sponsor dance around bug 272659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272659 in gjiten "Gjiten could try to find kanjipad" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272659
<StevenK> maco: Looking
<maco> StevenK: thanks
<StevenK> maco: There was no patch system integrated?
<maco> StevenK: no
<StevenK> maco: Okay, I'll test-build and upload.
<maco> thank you
<wrapster> im trying to build nspr for 64bit and this is the error I got. i added the -m64 flag to CFLAGS and tried building .. can anyone please help me . Im just starting off and need help.. plese. http://pastie.org/661643
<wrapster> do i need to write a separate rule for this compilation or how is it? I have absolutely no idea.. would really appreciate if anyone can help me.
<wrapster> thansk
<StevenK> maco: Uploaded.
<maco> StevenK: thanks much!
<StevenK> maco: No problem :-)
<StevenK> maco: Huzzah, gjiten was accepted
<siretart`> keyword ffmpeg
<siretart`> argl. morning byw
<cemc> if I have a Hardy install, and I would like a newer version of a package (which is in say Intrepid, or Karmic), what's the best way to get it? download .dsc and rebuild it and hope for the best? :) maybe upload it to a private PPA ?
<james_w> lfaraone: hi, did you see bug 456155?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456155 in sugar-hulahop "remove from archive. requires not existing pyxpcom" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/456155
<cemc> I need some help building a package. It's about https://launchpad.net/~cemc/+archive/ppa/+build/1300735. only i386 isn't building. amd64 and lpia built ok. I'm not sure what's wrong
<ari-tczew> maybe you should use 2.2.1 version from unstable?
<wrapster> guys can anyone help me build the 64bit version .. Im having difficulties understand as im starting off... would really like some help.
<soren> wrapster: The 64bit version of what?
<aboudreault> Hi, Is submitting a "update" patch for a package different than a security one?
<Hajex> I have problem with python and yesterday it makes the system crached and not work till I reinstall python and gnome .. I wnat to know how can I find the source of this problem
<wrapster> soren: libnss
<wrapster> soren: http://pastie.org/661922 thats the enitre rules file that im trying to manipulate for 64bit.. I have no idea how to proceed.. you can see that i've written for 64bit but could you help me understand the actual procedure.. pls
<qnix> Could anyone provide me some info about a "bug fix" update (Not a security one) for a universe package?
<dholbach> qnix: what do you need exactly?
<qnix> dholbach: I know how to do a security patch, follow that page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
<qnix> But is there something different for bug fix update ?
<dholbach> for a stable release or for the current one?
<wrapster> soren: could you help me?
<qnix> for karmic, yes.
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess maybe?
<soren> wrapster: I'm not sure wha tyou're trying to achieve. libnss already builds on 64 bit, doesn't it?
<qnix> dholbach: Ok.. so I cannot send a simple patch on the BTS, as I did for a security fix ?
<wrapster> soren: yeah but thats the 32bit versions..i mean the libs.. that wont generate the 64bit libs
<soren> wrapster: Sorry, what's the name of the source package?
<dholbach> qnix: you can - that's what the document basically says :)
<dholbach> qnix: attach patch to bug, subscirbe ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors (depending on where it is)
<wrapster> soren: libnss3-1d
<qnix> kk, I'll read that later. :) thanks
<dholbach> cool
<soren> wrapster: So you're saying that the amd64 packages we have for that package are 32 bit?
<soren> /usr/lib/libnss3.so: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, stripped
 * soren runs for 10 minutes
 * soren returns
<joaopinto> is anyone familiar with sdl-alsa vs sdl-pulseaudio ? some games have issues have issues with libsdl-alsa and work fine with -pulseaudio, would it be acceptable to set a depends on -pa ?
<ScottK> Someone who was working on eclipse ought to read ubuntu-devel-discuss.
<ScottK> joaopinto: Do recall that not all *buntu flavors use pulseaudio.  What about recommends sdl-pulseaudio | sdl-alsa ?
<joaopinto> that's a good option, but I am not sure it would be effective because most people will have libsdl-alsa pulled frm other package
<joaopinto> well, maybe this shouldn't be fixed at the packaging level
<ScottK> The thing is, your alsa problems are quite likely hardware specific.
<ScottK> Just because pulse works better for you, doesn't mean it will for everyone
<superm1> dtchen, ping.  backing out the changes from alsa-utils ubuntu4 & ubuntu5 fix that bug I indicated, what's that mean though for the bugs that were "fixed" in ubuntu4 and ubuntu5?
<ari-tczew> admins and sponsors, please review bug-fix package bug #455744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455744 in tinyproxy "[FFe] New upstream bug-fix release 1.6.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455744
<joaopinto> ScottK, don't think so, other people was able to reproduce this, it seems to be PA related
<ScottK> OK
<joaopinto> bug 454879
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 454879 in libsdl1.2 "hedgewars process uses 100% cpu with libsdl1.2debian-alsa installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/454879
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hi bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<leonel> hey  MOTUs  just to thank you for your  great job  this  5 Years   a big  Thank you !!!
<lfaraone> james_w: probably not, let me take a look at it,
<lfaraone> bug 456155
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456155 in sugar-hulahop "remove from archive. requires not existing pyxpcom" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/456155
<lfaraone> james_w: can't we just import python-xpcom?
<lfaraone> *sync
<james_w> dunno
<james_w> I'm not the one you want to be talking to about it, just wanted to make sure you had see it
<arand> I have stumbled upon a case where network-manager fails due to ridiculously short (~300) lease times given by DHCP. What does work is using ifconfig to re-specify the received IP as static. Would this be "fixable" as a configuration in NM?
<arand> And no, DHCP is not accessible for configuration...
<dtchen> arand: yeah, that's pretty inconvenient. Have you tried asking NM upstream?
<arand> No not yet, so that'd be the correct channel?
<ScottK> lfaraone: It's explained in the bug
<dtchen> arand: IMO, yes
<highvolt1ge> ogra: hey
<sebner> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> sebner: A bit.
<sebner> ScottK: when is universe freeze?
<ScottK> sebner: Sunday.  See u-d-a.
<sebner> ScottK: do you see a chance for nexuiz (+ data, + update for a b-p). Syncable in 2-3 (maybe)?
<ScottK> sebner: Did a nexuiz update just get approved?
<ScottK> Maybe it was something else.
<ScottK> sebner: In theory it's possible as long as we have a good reason to want it.
<sebner> ScottK: I wondering if "our version is thaaaaaaat old" is valid
<sebner> improvements over improvements included
<ScottK> sebner: Depends.
<ScottK> I'd put together the FFe and see.
<sebner> ScottK: ok thx
<wrapster> soren: sorry for a very late reply.... http://pastie.org/662322
<wrapster> that is what i was talking about when i said i needed to compile for 64bit.. if you see there are no <path>/amd64/*.so files...
<wrapster> soren: and what im trying to do is exactly that.. so now could you help me
<geser> wrapster: so you are trying to cross-build an amd64 package on i386? why not build the package on amd64?
<wrapster> I am building it on amd64
<wrapster> isainfo ---> amd64 i386
<geser> can you pastebin the output of "dpkg-architecture"?
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/662349
<geser> even if your rules file works and it compiles for amd64 your will get a ..._solaris-i386.deb. I don't know anything about nexenta but it still looks wrong to me to have an amd64 lib inside a i386 package
<wrapster> geser: yeah i understand your point..  but since it is a packaging question i thought i'll ask here.. could you please help me.. lets forget the issue of it being anything else(nexenta or not).. as a general packaging question if i were to put this across.. could you please help me,,,
<wrapster> geser: if you can at least help me to some extent i'd take it from there...
<wrapster> geser: here is the rules file i manipulated... http://pastie.org/661922
<wrapster> have a look at the build_64 section..
<geser> do you try to build an amd64 package on i386 or an i386+amd64 package?
<wrapster> i386+amd64 pkg
<wrapster> i would like to know how i should start with the install_64 section(which is currently left blank)
<wrapster> this is again my first time trying my hands at 64bit versions... so needed help...
<geser> good luck with that. the current Debian (and Ubuntu) packages are made to install always into the same location (i.e. the i386 package installs their libs to /usr/lib/, the amd64 package also installs their libs to /usr/lib/)
<geser> so you would need to modify every package to build both for i386 and amd64 and also modify it to install the files into your wanted locations
<geser> you would also need to solve somehow the problem, that the i386 and amd64 build find their libs to link
<wrapster> geser: could you be a bit more descriptive about your last 2 points. pls.
<geser> there are some packages which build on amd64 also i386 code, so you might want to look how they do it
<wrapster> geser: ok
<wrapster> geser: if you could explain what needs to be done looking at this http://pastie.org/661922
<wrapster> i would be able to understand it really fast as i have something to relate to... could you please do it.
<geser> wrapster: I've no idea how to do it and I haven't yet looked at packages on amd64 building also for i386
<wrapster> geser: ok thanks for your help thus far...
<wrapster> can anyone else following our coversation please help me here...
<geser> wrapster: the problem you first need to solve: when the build target is called you want(?) to build first for i386 and then later again for amd64. and you need to make sure that the build for amd64 stores the build files in some other location as else you will lose your i386 build
<geser> it probably depends on the upstream build system if you can specify it or not
<pochu> siretart: hey do you know Fabian Greffrath's irc nick?
<geser> with this package your are lucky that it doesn't use configure else you would need to figure out how to seperate the configuration for i386 and amd64
<wrapster> geser: thanks a lot..
<wrapster> it really gave me an idea to work with...
<wrapster> But have a look at the rules file... should i be aiming at producing all those *.so files as 64bit versions...
<wrapster> thats my only question.
<geser> wrapster: take a look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/karmic/zlib/karmic/annotate/head%3A/debian/rules
<geser> that the rules for zlib, it builds on amd64 a package for amd64 (libz1) and a package with i386 code (lib32z1)
<wrapster> geser: yeah i understood pretty well.. so i should be looking at something like mkdir -p debian/<pkg>/usr/lib/amd64 then putting all my libs there and for i386 ones the usual.. that part i got it.. how about the install part..
<wrapster> yeah i will look at this and do the best i can..
<wrapster> May i revert if i have issues?
<geser> sure
<wrapster> geser: thanks a lot
<geser> wrapster: something similar should work for the install target, but first you need to have the files build both for i386 and amd64. the target calls will be more like: build -> build32+build64 -> install ->install32+install64 and not build32 -> install32 -> build64 -> install64
<wrapster> hmm ok
<geser> so you need to take care that the amd64 build doesn't overwrite files from the ia32 build, e.g. by creating a copy of the source files, so you can safely build for i386 and amd64
<wrapster> geser: ok thanks
<wrapster> btw does this channel have logs by anychance?
<james_w> irclogs.ubuntu.com
<geser> wrapster: yes, irclogs.ubuntu.com
<wrapster> i can use everything youve said just now as reference
<geser> wrapster: do you have strong reasons to build an i386+amd64 package instead of a seperate one for i386 and one for amd64? that would save you much work
<wrapster> geser: there is no strong reason.
<wrapster> geser: and how would i build the dedicated amd64 pkg if otherswise?
<wrapster> i should start with the sources only right!?
<geser> can the solaris kernel switch personalities? once returning it's an i386 (e.g. uname -m) and once being amd64?
<wrapster> not very sure of it.. but i think it can.
<geser> you would need to "re-do" the boostraping similar to solaris-i386 for solaris-amd64 and to modify dpkg to know also about solaris-amd64
<wrapster> wow...
<wrapster> not an easy task for a newbie...
<geser> this bootstraping you would need to do anyway as you can't link amd64 code to an i386 libc
<geser> you would need to also have an amd64 libc
<geser> and every other lib you would need for your libnss-1d build
<wrapster> geser: yeah looking at it.
<soc> mhh, weird
<soc> did someone disable the avc codec of vlc?
<soc> avc1 and xvid don't work anymore ...
<qnix> emm.. if a package have 2 xml file, 1 .xsd + 1 .xsl. Where am I supposed to put those files ? /usr/share/xml ?
<qnix> (there is nothing else related to the xml with that package)
<dholbach> where does the app expect them?
<qnix> that's the problem... the app don't need them at all, and even don't know they exist.
<qnix> It's simply a schema and a xslt that can be used or not by the user.
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> if you don't need them, don't install them :)
<qnix> but the user may need them. It would be "bad" to tell them.. "go on svn and download them manually", ^^
<fabrice_sp> qnix, maybe, install them as examples
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach :-)
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<qnix> in fact, there are 2 xml files, + 3 test/example files. I think I'll put that in app-doc package.
<qnix> somewhere in /usr/share/...
<siretart> pochu: he doesn't irc. try mailing him or the mailing list. he is usually pretty responsive per mail
<siretart> soc: did you by chance add some PPA to that updates ffmpeg?
<soc> ooops
<soc> yes, no it works!
<soc> sorry
<LLStarks> are new additions universe/multiverse frozen for karmic?
<dholbach> LLStarks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<LLStarks> can you give me the short version?
<dholbach> LLStarks: we're very very frozen already
<LLStarks> okay.
<LLStarks> when does it open for lynx?
<dholbach> you need very good reasons to get an exception
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule
<LLStarks> then i'm not going to bother.
<LLStarks> i was just going to suggest a new upstream tree for onscripter. i'd have to go through the debian system first, wouldn't i?
<geser> LLStarks: getting it updated in Debian first would ease things
<directhex> debian roolz ko
<ari-tczew> if it's impossible now, so we can get packages by SRU later, right?
<geser> SRU are only for important bug fixes, not new upstream versions or similar
<ari-tczew> but what about if new upstream version is bug-fix only?
<dupondje> I'm trying to get a aptitude bug fixed in Karmic
<dupondje> hope I make it :(
<geser> ari-tczew: only as backports
<ari-tczew> OK thnx
<AtomicSpark> So I want to take the adobe 64 bit alpha binary and package it into my PPA. What is the best way to go about this? I have never packaged before. Is there a website that explains it... simpley?
<porthose> AtomicSpark, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<AtomicSpark> Thank you. I'm seeing how the current flashplugin-nonfree installer script works.
<joaopinto> AtomicSpark, you may not be allowed to incude the binary itself, and use the download stragegy like the nonfree package
<AtomicSpark> joaopinto: Yes. Looking at the source for flashplugin-nonfree now. Looks like it might just be a simple link change, removeal of the ndispluginwrapper stuff and a few text edits. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-21
<AdamDH> hi all, to create a meta package, how do I go about it?
<ScottK> Come on folks.  Let's upload some FTBFS fixes ....
<ScottK> Found a package that hasn't been touched since Hoary.
<directhex> has it been touched in debian?
<ScottK> Doesn't exist in Debian since before Etch.  Not sure why we kept it.
<ScottK> It's also possible it was never in Debian, since that long ago the practice of adding ubuntu to the revision was not firmly established (I don't think)
<ajmitch_> ScottK: what's the package?
<ScottK> ajmitch_: rail
 * ajmitch_ doesn't see anything in the *-changes lists about it, it probably did come in from debian & was never properly cleaned up
<ajmitch_> either that, or it was one of the crack packages imported from a non-debian source, as was done in those days
<ajmitch_> eg http://arege.jp/debian-arege/dists/unstable/rail/source/
<ajmitch_> from way back in 2001 :)
<ScottK> Lovely.
<ScottK> Nice detective work.
<ajmitch_> apt-get.org was the main index of all these repositories
<ScottK> Right.  I remember some of you that were around then discussing it.
<ajmitch_> it was scary seeing that photo on jcastro's blog from UDU :)
<micahg> ScottK: are the bug fixes listed here worth a sync with debian (we have 1.5.2): http://qbittorrent.sourceforge.net/news.php
<ScottK> micahg: Without looking, I'll tell you we pretty much always want the latest crack with torrent stuff.
<micahg> should I request a sync then?
<ScottK> micahg: As long as it builds and you test it works, sure.
<micahg> do you want me to grab the debian version an push to ppa first?
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Haha
<ScottK> micahg: I want you to build it, test it, and document this in a bug.  If you choose to use a PPA to help you do that, it's fine, but PPA specifically is not needed.
<micahg> ok, I will, then subscribe motu-releasE?
<ajmitch_> StevenK: you weren't at that one, were you?
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Nope
<micahg> ScottK: seems to be fine
<micahg> only issue  is report a bug goes to upstream
<micahg> but I think the same is true in the current version
<ScottK> micahg: OK, file your bug.
<micahg> and I subscribe motu-releasE?
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.
<micahg> ok, thanks
<ScottK> There was a new feature in there, so it needs FFe (small one though)
<micahg> new cli option?
<ScottK> Yep
<micahg> should I copy the fix list into the bug?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Read the requirements for FFe.
<ScottK> It's on the wiki, but I don't recall exactly where
<micahg> yeah, I've read it before
 * micahg doesn't trust the wiki for some reason
<micahg> I'll attach the debdiff too
<porthose> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<wrapster> geser: i didnt quite understand could you help me again?
<suji> hi, i upload my package for review, it is here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6950
<suji> but there is a warning message, i don't know what is that?
<RAOF> suji: There's no .orig.tar.gz there, so the source can't be extracted.
<suji> RAOF: now what i do to add .orig.tar.gz there?
<RAOF> suji: You need to build your source package with -sa.  That forces the .orig.tar.gz to be included in the changes file.
<suji> RAOF: ok
<suji> RAOF: Again i got some warning, there are here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6951
<RAOF> suji: Those are problems with your package; they should be reasonably self-explanatory.
<kees> ScottK: (or other motu-release) I have two SELinux uploads ready for manual push: selinux and refpolicy-ubuntu.  as selinux does not currently work sanely in Karmic, these cannot be regressions.  :)  also, they are not seeded on ISOs.
<suji> RAOF: In the maintainer field what should i give?
<RAOF> suji: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete - since it'll be going into Universe, it'd probably be "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<mrooney> how easy/hard would it be to get a one-line crasher fix into a universe package at this time? impossible?
<mrooney> specifically bug 394394, I've attached a patch for the specific file, what do I ideally need, a debdiff?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 394394 in wxbanker "unable to start if wxpython default install is < 2.8" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394394
<joaopinto> good morning
<porthose> mrooney, I would say attach a debdiff and subscribe u-u-s ;)
<mrooney> porthose|afk: okay thanks, will do :)
<geser> wrapster: what did you not understand?
<wrapster> geser: one moment
<wrapster> geser: here is the pastie again...: now from what i understand.. i'll let the 32 bit version run(build_32 will run) it will generate a few .so files in some directory... then in build_64 section.. I should copy these .so files first to some temp directory run the build again but this time for 64.. Then the generated .so files will be of 64bit that I need to again relocate to appropriate dir...
<wrapster> Is this understanding right?
<geser> yes
<wrapster> ok thanks... I'll do it right now.. and give you the results..
<proppy> Hi, is there a way to get python dist/site-packages path from a python/shell prompt ? I'm trying to update python-poker-network debian/ubuntu packaging to work with python2.6 ?
<proppy> and there is hardcoded path to /usr/lib/python$(python -c 'import sys; print sys.version[:3]')/site-packages in init files
<POX> use --install-layout=deb or --install-lib=/usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages
<POX> or take a look at include /usr/share/python/python.mk
<POX> s/include //
<geser> proppy: python -c 'from distutils import sysconfig; print(sysconfig.get_python_lib())' (taken from python.mk)
<wrapster> geser: so far it was all working fine.. all of a sudden.. http://pastie.org/663197
<wrapster> i didnt change a thing... no additions /no deletions...
<proppy> geser: Thanks for the tips
<proppy> POX: thanks too
<geser> wrapster: is this the 32bit or 64bit build?
<wrapster> geser: 32bit build
<wrapster> the default one
<POX> proppy: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/paste/trunk/debian/rules?view=markup
<geser> wrapster: looks like it's missing a include now (it happened to other packages too)
<proppy> POX: geser: the following patch do the trick http://pastebin.com/f377edcc9
<proppy> thanks
<wrapster> geser: oh my god.. ironical... how do i find out whats missing now...
<wrapster> hmm
<geser> look into the manpage of rindex to find out which include is missing and add it to the other ones in that .c file
<mok01> Where can I find documentation on the personalities of the various ubuntu kernels?
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/661922
<wrapster> thats what i did.. i was able to backup all the .so files to debian/32 but when the build_64 section was encountered I still get the same.. #file <*.so> will still show it as 32bit only.. could you please let me know what mistake im making?
<geser> did you look at your log if it really rebuild everything or just checked if it's still uptodate? you might need to clean the source before build for 64bit
<ScottK> kees: Pushed.
<wrapster> ls
<YokoZar> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spring-engine/+bug/457059  (that game I mentioned yesterday)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457059 in spring-engine "Freeze Exception Request: spring-engine" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ScottK> YokoZar: I just accepted it
<YokoZar> oh snap looks like it already got approved haha
<YokoZar> you're awesome
<YokoZar> I even looked at my email like 5 minutes ago
<Laney> urgh
<wrapster> geser: ok so i added a sleep to see if the section was executed and also ran a clean before I could copy... this is what i added ...http://pastie.org/663273
<Laney> I lost my script to generate the haskell installability graphs
<wrapster> the manipulate section is there before clean thats coz all those 'cp' that you see will end in an error as they are generated by the build_32 section.... so before i clean it up i will copy then clean.
<wrapster> geser: the 64bit build made some progress but failed here http://pastie.org/663278
<geser> sorry, don't know why the file is missing
<wrapster> geser: this is the actual issue... http://pastie.org/663334
<wrapster> i didnt get the previous one i had written...
<wrapster> is this a generic issue while cross-compiling?
<wrapster> is it got to do with the flags?
<geser> wrapster: looks like it wants to link the amd64 .o files into an i386 .so. I don't know if there is only a flag missing but you need to also modify the -L value to point to your amd64 libs and make sure that the libs mentioned in -l are also there (in amd64 variants)
<wrapster> ok.
<jdong> hmph does eclipse REALLY still lack word wrap?
<Messi> online boxing game http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
<iulian> Whut?
<jbicha> bdmurray: I noticed you triaged bug 440098 as high, are you willing to sponsor the patch?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/440098)
<kees> ScottK: thanks for the push!  :)
<bodhi_zazen> question re: ppa =0
<bodhi_zazen> I made a ppa on LP :
<bodhi_zazen> https://launchpad.net/~zenix-shravaka/+ppa-packages
<bodhi_zazen> I uploaded a package, but it does not show at that url ???
<ScottK> bodhi_zazen: #launchpad is a better channel for PPA questions.
<bodhi_zazen> It shows here : https://launchpad.net/~zenix-shravaka/+archive/ppa/+packages
<bodhi_zazen> Ah, thanks ScottK
<bddebian> Is there any chance in heck of getting the new lordsawar upstream that I just uploaded to Debian, into Karmic?
<ScottK> bddebian: Sure.  I'm very easy about FFe for games.
<bddebian> ScottK: That means I need to remember how to file sync requests and FFes :)
<ScottK> bddebian: That or Tom Sawyer someone else into doing it.
<Laney> Is there anything wrong with "manual" syncing?
<Laney> via the syncpackage script
<bddebian> Hmm, I wonder if I can beg persia :)
<Laney> I'll request the sync if you get approval to upload
<ari-tczew> hi, is it possible to get it before karmic's final release? bug #455744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455744 in tinyproxy "[FFe] New upstream bug-fix release 1.6.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455744
<Laney> bug fix releases don't need ffes
<ScottK> Laney: It should be avoided if possible as it introduces chances to mess up.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: If it's bug fix only it doesn't need an FFe up through Sunday.
<ari-tczew> jest, it's bug-fix only, as information attached in bug
<ari-tczew> yes *
<ScottK> So just needs a sponsor review/approval.
 * sbeattie would appreciate a sponsor for bug 389633
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/389633)
<ari-tczew> ubuntu-universe-sponsors subscribed
<ari-tczew> I subscribed fabrice, but he is not glad for this reason :P
<ari-tczew> ScottK: is it need change status to Confirmed?
<ari-tczew> already is New
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Confirmed is for after the sponsor has approved it.
<sebner> ScottK: you could start with bug #457516 :D  no rdepends so won't break anything
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/457516)
<ScottK> For you, sure.
<ScottK> sebner: Ack'ed.
<bddebian> Laney: Was that for me and lordsawar?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you approv for my bug? :>
<sebner> ScottK: you are my hero. thank you very much :) I filed bugs for nexuiz(-data) but I have to testbuild and generally add content there. I'll bug you again if I'm ready. Is that ok for you?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't have time to review it for sponsorship now, so no.  J
<ScottK> sebner: Generally I get to the FFe bugs pretty quickly through bugmail, so I'd prefer just to do it that way.
<sebner> ScottK: as you wish :)
<ScottK> bddebian: Are you still MOTU?
<bddebian> ScottK: I didn't think so but persia says I'm still listed
<ScottK> If you're still listed, maybe you could review ari-tczew's bug for sponsorship and he could do your lordsawar FFe?
<frandieguez> Hi all! I have reported 2 bugs on launchpad (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/457001) and (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/457007) as you can see are bugs related with translations. One of them is very important cause is very visible on the menÃº.. Did you think that developers will fix this in time to tomorrow freeze??
<iulian> sebner: Approved.
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/457001)
<sebner> iulian: uhuhuhuh, another hero :) thx
<iulian> Thank you.
<chrisccoulson> sbeattie - won't bash-completion need a conflicts/replaces on the versions of svk which ship /etc/bash_completion.d/svk?
<chrisccoulson> else upgrades will still break
<ScottK> frandieguez: It's extremely unlikely for tomorrow.  It is in theory possible to be fixed between the RC and final.
<bddebian> Hmm, I think av` owes me :)
<ScottK> dpm: You might want to look at frandieguez's bugs ^^^^
<frandieguez> Thanks to all!
<dpm> thanks ScottK, I was looking at them right now, but I've got a meeting in 3 mins
<ScottK> dpm: OK.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware.
<dpm> ScottK, sure, thanks for pointing them out to me
<dpm> frandieguez, ScottK, one of them is easily fixable, (I will contact the Galician translators), the other one I'll have to look into in more detail
<frandieguez> dpm, ok thanks before all
<sbeattie> chrisccoulson: doh, you're right.
<dpm> frandieguez, np, you're welcome
<av`> bddebian, hey barry, what's up? :)
<bddebian> av`: I'm just being lazy and trying get lordswar synced for karmic :)
<av`> bddebian, sure, is there a bug open for it already?
<bddebian> av`: Nope, I just uploaded it to Debian a couple hours ago
<ScottK> bddebian: You aren't being lazy.  You are striving for minimal effort.  Lazy would be not worrying about the sync.
<bddebian> ScottK: Heh, thanks :)
<av`> ScottK, do you think we can have it synced at this time?
<av`> ScottK, I gonna take care to test it to check out if everything is working the right way if it's ok for you to have it synced
<ScottK> av`: As long as we get an FFe in soonish, it should be doable.
<av`> ScottK, great, thanks
<av`> bddebian, please add an FFe bug for it asap, and then I gonna add some comments if my tests went fine
<ScottK> av`: I think he wants you to do the FFe bug too
<av`> oh ok
<av`> gonna take care of it later then, so it's done for today
<av`> bddebian, ^^ :)
<ari-tczew> .
<lfaraone> ScottK: do you have time to sponsor a pretty old patch for daemontools? bug 253465
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/253465)
<ScottK> lfaraone: Not now.  Busy with $WORK.  Sorry
<sebner> ubottu: did you break LP you bad boy?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebner> right :P
 * lfaraone hopes to find a bored MOTU.
<fabrice_sp> hi ari-tczew it seems I have (bad) internet access. I'll have a look at #455744
<ari-tczew> hi Fabrice
<lfaraone> ScottK: understood.
<bddebian> Gads I'ver forgotten how much I hate LP :(
<av`> bddebian, I'm testing it a bit then I open up the FFe request for you ;)
<hyperair> what's wrong with LP?
<bddebian> av`: Thanks since I can't even seem to get on fcking LP
<av`> hyperair, some proxy problems
<hyperair> heh i see
<hyperair> those suck
<av`> works fine for me
<av`> bddebian, looks like a nice game but I'm a total noob at it atm :D
<bddebian> hyperair: Not to mention I just find it slow and cumbersome in general :(
<bddebian> av`: Yeah, it kicks my arse all the time.  I tend to suck at RTS type games. :)
<hyperair> i kinda like launchpad's bug interface
<hyperair> it's better than debian's at the very least =\
<av`> bddebian, at every turn a new hero decides to follow me, e.g all the map will be mine in a sec :D
<hyperair> i don't have to dig through the bloody manpage every time i need to change the status of some bug
<bddebian> hyperair: I'm not sure that is a measure to be proud of. :)
<hyperair> heheheh
<hyperair> right good point
<hyperair> it's better than bugzilla!
<hyperair> yes, at least it lets me remain logged in
<hyperair> stupid damn bugzilla invalidates its own cookies
<zooko> I find it mildly confusing that LP is so slow.
<hyperair> then i have to start clearing them out or i'll have to keep reentering my credentials for every move
<jcastro> it always gets like this around release unfortunately
<bddebian> heh
<zooko> It's written in Python, right?  And it is new and well-maintained, and has a real company to buy servers to run it.  So why is it slow?
<hyperair> python is slow?
<zooko> Oh well, I'm sure there's an interesting reason having to do with relational databases...
<av`> bddebian, #457577
<av`> bddebian, I've subscribed you so you gonna receive a copy on your mail box soon
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<av`> hello
<bddebian> av`: Thanks, now if I could just get to it
<av`> bddebian, LP loads fine here
<bddebian> Still not here :(
<av`> bddebian, maybe because I'm running under edge
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Do I need to do anything to that bug?
<av`> just pop up if an input is needed from you
<av`> bddebian, anyway I gonna take care of having it done, you'll receive all messages since you are subscribed so np
<bddebian> av`: Rockin' thanks
<av`> bddebian, np, I owe you some favours so it's time to give something back
<av`> ;)
<bddebian> heh
<jack__> how do I build a package from git?
<mok0> jack__: git-buildpackage
<jack__> jack__, but there is no debian folder in it yet
<mok0> jack__: well, you need that :-)
<jack__> mok0, I used cdbs for it on a tar.gz package... but how to do it with just a source downloaded from git?
<mok0> jack__: you still need to have the orig.tar.gz file
<mok0> jack__: building directly from a VCS is still up in the air
<mok0> jack__: it's not even supported by uscan AFAIK
<jack__> mmh
<mok0> jack__: yeah :-)
<geser> Hi bddebian, ajmitch and av`
<ajmitch> hi geser
<av`> heya geser
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebner> huhu geser bddebian
<sebner> and the rest
<geser> Hi sebner
<sebner> ;)
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<quidnunc> Is there an easy way to build a debian package from a common lisp adsf-install package? common-lisp-controller claims it contains a tool to do this but I cannot find what it is.
<ScottK> quidnunc: I've seen lots of claims for such tools.  I've never found one that produced good packages though
<quidnunc> ScottK: It's only for personal use. So "okay" is good enough.
<ScottK> That's reasonable
<sebner> ScottK: I just built nexuiz-data for 2 hours. Please believe me that it worked as I don't have a build log! xD
<ScottK> sebner: Put it in the bug.
<c_korn> huh ? http://pastebin.com/d40d33a14
<c_korn> it checks whether 4 < 32 and not 4<3 ?
<geser> c_korn: yes, dpkg --compare-versions 7.4 lt 7.32 && echo true
<c_korn> ok, I did not expect that. have to recompile now ... :/  thanks
<geser> c_korn: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version if you are interested how versions are compared
<sebner> ScottK: what do you mean with "put it in the bug?"
<ScottK> sebner: That you built it, but have no log
<sebner> ScottK: aye aye
<sebner> ScottK: I always have the "Setting up stuff" so I'm trustworthy imho ^^
<sebner> ScottK: subscribed you guys
<c_korn> geser: thanks. bookmarked it
<sebner> ScottK: do you have time now to take a look at it (if you need anything further)? else I'd go to bed (Past midnight already)
<ScottK> sebner: No.  I'm in the middle of cooking dinner and kids with homework
<sebner> ScottK: ah, no problem. Cya tomorrow then. Don't forget to let sispoty know when you see him. He is going mad, I promise :D  good night :)
<ajmitch> trying to find fixes for bugs in the boost svn repository is painful
<ScottK> ajmitch: boost and pain is pretty redundant, IMO
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, there's a bug where a number of packages will be breaking with libboost-python & python >= 2.6.3
<zooko> Have a URL for that bug?
<ajmitch> apparantly fixed in boost svn, but I haven't found it yet
<ajmitch> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boost1.38/+bug/457688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457688 in boost1.38 "libboost-python1.38 issues with __doc__ property in Python >= 2.6.3" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> ajmitch: Odd, we're all the way to 2.6.4 already, but I didn't hear of a lot of problems?
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, python-visual had some other problems that have been masking it
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-22
<ajmitch> not enough people use some of these packages or hit the appropriate code paths to trigger the bug yet, I guess
<ScottK> No doubt.
<ScottK> Sounds like SRU material at this point in any case.
<ajmitch> probably, but a patch needs to be found before we can even consider that
<ajmitch> RC is tomorrow, isn't it?
<zooko> Does anyone know what patch in Python changed the behavior of the __doc__ property?
<directhex> okay, i give up. is it actually possible to change timezone on karmic? changing it in Administration/Time and Date doesn't help - it'll always be shown as blank next time you run it
<lifeless> zooko: how was it changed?
<ajmitch> zooko: the impression I got was that it's an upstream change, I haven't looked for it though
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Tomorrow.
 * ScottK keeps filing removal bugs ...
<zooko> lifeless: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boost1.38/+bug/457688 claims that Python 2.6.3 (upstream) changed the behavior of the __doc__ property compared to Python 2.6.2.
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/457688)
<zooko> Since the Python upstream folks are currently working on putting out a 2.6.4 whose raison d'etre is to undo regressions that were introduced in Python 2.6.3, I thought they should know.
<ajmitch> closest I can find in 2.6.3 release notes is http://bugs.python.org/issue5890
<lifeless> zooko: ugh
<ajmitch> lifeless: I heard you'll be visiting chch for pycon soon?
<zooko> ajmitch: thanks
<lifeless> ajmitch: yup
<ajmitch> it should be a good weekend, even sold out ahead of deadline
<zooko> Okay Barry Warsaw says he thinks this isn't a regression in Python, as in its instead a bug in Boost.
<ajmitch> zooko: thanks, useful to know :)
<wrapster> geser: please look at this issue.. its the same thing that i've put up yday.. but now i actually tried adding the -L/usr/lib/amd64 to SunOS5.11_i86pc.mk file(it does exist) but still no changes.. I cannot see it in the cmd line.. is there a way you can tell me where I need to look for it?
<wrapster> geser: my mistake.. didnt read it welll.
<wrapster> sorry
<secret901> Why is Songbird not installable via Synaptic?
<wrapster> the -L option in gcc is used to tell where the libs are going to be placed right? -L/usr/lib , implies that all the generated libs will be placed in the /usr/lib dir?
<soren> wrapster: No.
<wrapster> then?
<soren> wrapster: gcc is just the compiler. It doesn't install anything anywhere.
<wrapster> oh yeah... sorry about that...
<wrapster> got confused.
<Hew> Hi MOTU's. Nexuiz 2.5.2-1 has just been packaged by Debian. This is a major change over 2.4.2-1 which has been in Ubuntu since Intrepid. It's unfortunate that this has happened so late in the cycle, but I just wanted to check if there is still any chance in getting a sync to Ubuntu. Bug 355854.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 355854 in nexuiz "Please upgrade to nexuiz 2.5.2" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/355854
<Laney> Hew: apparently we are easy with FFes for games
<Laney> subscribe the release team
<Hew> Laney, that is excellent news! I will do a FFe and subscribe them now, thanks.
<Laney> Hew: it doesn't look like the data has been packaged though
<Laney> # nexuiz/i386 unsatisfiable Depends: nexuiz-data (>= 2.5.2)
<Hew> hmm ok, I guess I'll keep watching out for that one
<Laney> you can ask the debian games team if you like
<Hew> sebner, do you know what the situation is with nexuiz-data, and what the chances are of getting Nexuiz 2.5.2 into Karmic?
<geser> Hew: see bug #457522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457522 in nexuiz-data "[FFe] Please sync nexuiz-data 2.5.2-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457522
<geser> and bug #457525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457525 in nexuiz "[FFe] Please sync nexuiz 2.5.2-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457525
<Laney> that exists?
<Laney> pts must be lagging then
<Lazy> sorry to bother you guys but is there a chance to get bug #372040 fixed before final?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372040 in electricsheep "Request Package of electricsheep 2.7 due to 2.6 EOL" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372040
<Lazy> it should be simple sync from debian
<siretart`> Hew: nexuiz has not been even ACCEPTED yet in debian
<siretart`> (the uploader is sitting behind me...)
<Laney> what did sebner build?!
<amarillion> Is there documentation somewhere on packaging & mime type registration?
<amarillion> Or: how do I let my package register a mime-type?
<hyperair> amarillion: apt-get source something which registers a mime type?
<hyperair> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/mime-policy/ch2.html
<amarillion> hyperair, ok thanks, but that page basically refers to "man update-mime", and that man page is really very terse
<hyperair> right
<amarillion> I guess there isn't a nice document with examples anywhere
<hyperair> take a look in /usr/lib/mime/packages/
<amarillion> Ok, that helps too. I'll give it a try
<sebner> Laney: hmm?
<Laney> sup
<sebner> Laney: <Laney> -what did sebner build?!
<Laney> oh, that data package which hasn't been uploaded yet
<Laney> well *now* it has ;)
 * sebner lives in the future :P
<sebner> Laney: I used the orig tarball and the debian folder from svn trunk (which is the same folder as the regular package upload. no changes would have been made so I used that)
<Laney> kk
<sebner> Laney: -data should have appeared yesterday though but 967MB is not something you can upload in some minutes ^^
<Laney> poor mirrors :(
<sebner> heh
<Teddy_> Security bug #551907 needs some love.  A patch exists. (It is fixed upstream and is waiting for a sponsor in Debian.)
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 551907 could not be found
<Teddy_> Dang
<Teddy_> Security bug #457709  needs some love.  A patch exists. (It is fixed upstream and is waiting for a sponsor in Debian.)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457709 in mandos "mandos-client adds unnecessary files to initrd" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457709
<james_w> debian bug 551907
<ubottu> Debian bug 551907 in mandos-client "mandos-client adds unnecessary files to initrd" [Critical,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/551907
<rhpot1991> siretart: ping, I hate to bother you about ffmpeg again but there seems to be a pretty big issue where it fails to encode mp3 as well
<rhpot1991> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lame/+bug/401406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401406 in lame "[Karmic] libmp3lame fails in converting audio" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<rhpot1991> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lame/+bug/439083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439083 in lame "MP3 audio encoding fails with "output buffer too small" using ffmpeg (dup-of: 401406)" [Undecided,New]
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/665167 i still get that issue..
<wrapster> geser: could you please look at the cmd line .. i tried with -L/usr/lib/amd64
<wrapster> geser: yet the same issue.. pls help
<jfcgauss_> hi. on ubuntu 9.04 having apache2-worker installed, please check out the output of
<jfcgauss_> ldd -r -u /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_* 2>&1 | grep -v 'undefined symbol:\|lookup error:\|direct dependencies:\|^$'
<jfcgauss_> there are some unnecassary dependencies of apache2 modules
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am I completely daft to want to try and package FreePBX for Ubuntu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are some instructions for building debs here: http://www.freepbx.org/v2/wiki/DebPackages but I wonder why no-one has done it before.
<zul> jfcgauss_, please open a bug in launchpad thanks
<geser> wrapster: this is from the 32bit build or from the 64bit build?
<wrapster> from the 64bit build.
<wrapster> geser: one moment i'll paste the rules file.
<geser> wrapster: I wonder about the "i386 output" at the end of the line. I've no experience with cross-building but it looks like it wants to build an i386 lib instead of a amd64 lib
<wrapster> geser: http://pastie.org/665203
<jfcgauss_> im logged in, but somehow failed to find "File new bug" link on https://bugs.launchpad.net/, not my 1st bug report. did something change :?
<wrapster> could that be an issue with the flags being set.. I mean originally they were for 32 so flags set appropriately..
<geser> wrapster: have you managed to build the 64bit lib by hand? just take the source, do what's needed to get it build and don't look at packaging yet
<wrapster> geser: no..
<wrapster> i have not done that yet...
<wrapster> i have the sources though.
<geser> once you know how to get it build successfully you can think about how to package it
<wrapster> so shall i just yank everything out for 32bit and only do the 64bit ones. first
<geser> wrapster: yes, but you don't need to touch the packaging for it at all, just take a copy of the source and call make (with the needed variables, etc.) on it
<jmarsden> jfcgauss_: Yes, things changed.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<wrapster> ok..
<wrapster> make in the sense how?
<wrapster> should i go into each dir and run make
<geser> important is only that you know that you can successfully build a 64bit lib
<wrapster> or make -f debian/rules
<wrapster> something like that?
<geser> just take the make call from your rules files (make -C mozilla/security/nss nss_build_all MOZILLA_CLIENT=1 ...)
<wrapster> ok
<geser> like you would build it without packaging (for installing it in /usr/local), but just the compiling
<geser> once you know how you can build it you can start thinking what you need to put into debian/rules
<quidnunc> Is there a way to get a list of all the packages that have a given package depends on?
<quidnunc> Sorry, I mean to say:
<quidnunc> Is there a way to get a list of all the packages that have a given package as a dependency?
<geser> apt-cache rdepende $pkgname
<geser> rdepends
<quidnunc> thanks
<jfcgauss_> just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/458274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458274 in apache2 "unnecassary dependencies of apache2 modules" [Undecided,New]
<wrapster> geser: interesting..
<jfcgauss_> thx
<jpds> highvoltage: -meeting? :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> sistpoty|work, av`, ScottK, iulian: Thanks for lordsawar!
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian, and thanks to you for it :)
<ScottK> bddebian: No.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<Laney> wicked
<Laney> you sexy beast bddebian!
<bddebian> Heh, heya Laney
<Laney> alreet
<imbrandon> morn folks
<av`> bddebian, np ;)
<wrapster> geser: thanks for your help i was able to narrow down much further...http://pastie.org/665359
<wrapster> geser: i still have errors though
<wrapster> geser: i dont quite understand what that means.. is it unablet to use the plc4 libraray? for 64bit or something?
<geser> wrapster: yes, it wants to try to link your 64bit .o files to 32bit libs, this won't work. You need a 64bit variant of plc4 and use the correct values for -L as I assume /lib/ and /usr/lib holds the 32bit libs
<wrapster> ok will look for it in /usr/lib/amd64 one moment
<wrapster> there is no plc4 version of it.
<geser> so you need to first build a 64bit variant of libpcl4 before you can continue here
<geser> the same applies for libplds4, libnspr4, libthread, libnsl, libsocket, libposix4, libdl and libc
<wrapster> yeah apparenlty dpkg -S libplc4 ---> nspr4,nspr4-0d so i guess i need the 64bit variants.
<wrapster> geser: i cant find this pkg on http://packages.ubuntu.com/ (hardy) weird
<geser> wrapster: it's there: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libnspr4-0d
<wrapster> also could you tell me the difference between libnspr4 and libnspr4-0d
<wrapster> what does that 0d and 1d mean?
<geser> it's the library version
<wrapster> ok but how do i know if its the 64bit or the 32 one.. coz i have nspr4/4-0d/4-dev installed
<wrapster> yet this is cribbing.
<geser> you can ask "file" what it thinks about a file, but unless you (or someone else) made a 64bit variant of this package, I assume it's 32bit only
<wrapster> hmm
<wrapster> ok so i need to compile the 64bit ones for all these.. OMG
<micahg> wrapster: are you trying to install flash?
<wrapster> no
<micahg> ok
<geser> wrapster: yes, you need them all to build libnss in 64bit (I didn't check how many different source packages that are)
<wrapster> geser: ok i'll do it.
<geser> wrapster: do you have a libc alread in /usr/lib/amd64?
<wrapster> yeah
<wrapster> libc.so / .so.1
<geser> at least something
<wrapster> anything i can do?
<frandieguez> Sorry for the noise... but when karmic rc will be released?
<joaopinto> frandieguez, support for karmic is on #ubuntu+1 :P
<geser> wrapster: repeat your work for nspr
<geser> wrapster: the needed libs come from nspr and the libc package (I hope if you have a libc.so.1 in 64bit that you have also the other libs from it in 64bit)
<wrapster> yeah libc.so.1 is there.. i'll first start with nspr now..
<wrapster> hope it compiles cleanly!!
<wrapster> -I/usr/lib/amd64 to include the libs right...
<geser> -L but yes
<wrapster> geser: yeah thats the only issue i guess. coz it came upto dpkg_shlibdeps: then failed as it cannot locate libc.so.1(64bit)
<MTeck-ricer> I'm trying to remember the name of an app that shows all processes in rc in a table type display so you can enable/disable them - any ideas what that's calls?
<geser> wrapster: check if there is an option to tell dpkg_shlibdeps also into other dirs for libs
<wrapster> geser: snip from  man dh_shlibdeps
<wrapster> -ldirectory[:directory:directory:..]  With recent versions of dpkg-shlibdeps, this option is generally not needed. Before dpkg-shlibdeps is run, LD_LIBRARY_PATH will have added to it the specified directory (or directories --   separate with colons). With recent versions of dpkg-shlibdeps, this is mostly only useful for packages that      build multiple flavors of the same library, or other situations where the library is installed into a direc-    
<wrapster> so i did dh_shlibdeps -a -l/usr/lib/amd64 -->still fails
<geser> hmm
<wrapster> i think i should probally look at LDFLAGS and see where -L is coming from and add this tehre..
<wrapster> but thats a daunting task ...
<wrapster> btw im just curious to know one thing.. are these pkgs that insignificat that there are no 64bit versions of it?
<wrapster> beg to differ :)
<soren> wrapster: Which packages?
<wrapster> libnspr
<wrapster> libnss
<soren> I've told you already. there are 64 bit versions of them.
<geser> soren: he is building for nexenta
<geser> and tries to generate a package with i386 and amd64 libs
<soren> In the same package?
<geser> yes, cross-compiling on i386
<geser> similar to what we do it some amd64 package (e.g. libz) but the other way around
<soren> Sounds like... uh... "fun".
<wrapster> soren: thanks
 * soren know next to nothing about nexenta, but..
<soren> Does all packages need to build this way?
<wrapster> geser: if i do finish this up.. im going to throw a virtual party exclusively to you... you only
<wrapster> soren: no.. a few of them thats all...
 * jdong is curious how virtual parties are supposed to work :)
<wrapster> jdong: i dont know :P
<soren> wrapster: Why is that? Why does nss need to?
<wrapster> geser: but till then pls stick around and help me!!!!
<wrapster> soren: nss (which i want in 64bit) had a dep on .so thats generated out of nspr.
<wrapster> so nspr need to be built with 64 first to get that version of .so
<wrapster> then i can use it
<soren> But why do those two need to be built this special way?
<wrapster> coz i dont have the 64bit flavors of em
<geser> what you need them for?
<geser> or more precisely the libnss one
<wrapster> geser: this seems to never end... i managed to get over libc.so.1 now it says libgcc_s.so.1 is not availble...
<geser> wrapster: who said that cross-compiling is easy?
<wrapster> its interesting as its neither in /usr/lib nor in /usr/lib/amd64
<soren> wrapster: Why do you (and only you) need 64 bit versions of libnss (and its dependencies) (and not every single other library and application)?
<wrapster> soren: its not that way.. apparently there are a few things that we need to replace as we are using 3rd party stuff and nss/nspr fit the bill...
<wrapster> i know its very very vague but thats all i can discuss.. Im sorry.
<wrapster> geser: ok nspr was successfully built.. but with some external hacking..
<wrapster> I needed to set the LD_LIBRARY_FLAGS=/usr/lib/amd64:/lib/amd64
<wrapster> but unable to find it within the pkg and see where I need to actually put it...
<siretart> rhpot1991: pong. please elaborate
<rhpot1991> siretart: if you look at the bugs I pasted they pretty much sum it up, trying to encode with libmp3lame causes a failure
<rhpot1991> if you attempt to encode a video, it will encode the video itself, but then fail to encode the audio leaving you with corrupted videos
<siretart> rhpot1991: comment #2 and #3 indicate that the issue is rather cosmetic
<rhpot1991> siretart: thats not the case when I comes to video, I'm not sure if you are only doing audio
<rhpot1991> s/I/it/
<siretart> I see, but you say that installing the jaunty package in karmic fixes the issue, right?
<rhpot1991> siretart: I have not tried that yet, wanted to ping you first to get an opinion
<rhpot1991> siretart: installing and testing now
<siretart> rhpot1991: seems that marillat has some patches that might be worth trying out
<ScottK> TheMuso: PowerPC seems to be doing reasonably well.  We have a Power PC live CD for Kubuntu right now.
<sebner> ScottK: thanks for the ACKs :)
<ScottK> sebner: No problem.  Thanks for working on it.
<ScottK> Plenty of room for more FTBFS fixes everyone....
<ximion> hi! I have a short question about library packaging:
<ximion> I created a package project-core which contains a shared library and an essential binary, which is used by other tools of this project and uses the library itself. The lib is used in nearly every part of the project I package, but it can also be used by other tools. Now I get the lintian warning to rename project-core to match the library name. It is a bad idea to package a lib with data like images. Is it allowed to package a shared
<ximion> lib with binary programs?
<geser> don't know if it's allowed, but it's a bad idea. what will you do if the API/ABI of the lib changes?
<rhpot1991> siretart: that would be great, is that something you can get together and I can test for you, or what is the course of action?
<siretart> rhpot1991: please test http://wiki.tauware.de/~siretart/upload-queue/libmp3lame0_3.98.2%2bdebian-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
<siretart> rhpot1991: and report back to the bug, I can upload tomorrow then
<siretart> need some sleep now, good night
<rhpot1991> siretart: any chance you have an amd64 build?
<rhpot1991> if not its ok I'll get this dev box ready to go
<siretart> I've placed the source package in the same directory, you can build it yourself
<rhpot1991> ok thanks
<siretart> http://wiki.tauware.de/~siretart/upload-queue/lame_3.98.2%2bdebian-0ubuntu2.dsc
<xzachtmx> Hi guys i think this is the place to ask a question i have... I am interested in contributing to ubuntu.  I have been using ubuntu for a while now and i have experience with programming with things such as python and c++ to make little applications as well as web applications.  So i think i can call myself technical.  Is debian packaging a good place to start?
<rhpot1991> good night, and thanks for looking into it
<siretart> xzachtmx: see the channel topic
<xzachtmx> Ok
<ximion> geser: Thanks, I will make separate packages
<TheMuso> ScottK: Right, although ubiquity is currently broken due to some weird toolchain stuff. Colin/myself have fixes lined up to go into final, that will make things work.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Great to hear.  It seems like the power pc port is looking up the last few cycles.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah, which is a good thing.
<Kmos>  3
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-23
<xzachtmx> is it possible to package a python module?
<lifeless> yes
<wrapster> geser: hi
<wrapster> geser: you there.. I was able to successfully build the 64bit version of nspr..
<ScottK> geser lives in Germany, so he's probably asleep
<wrapster> ScottK: ok ...
<wrapster> ScottK: i have built the 64bit version of nspr...
<wrapster> but having some trivial issues in placing the libs...
<wrapster> could you help me resolve it pls
<ScottK> Sorry.  It's 2AM here and I'm headed for bed myself.
<wrapster> ScottK: ok ...
<wrapster> anyone following our conversation can help me pls?
<siretart`> rhpot1991: did you manage to test my lame package?
<slytherin> ttx: ping
<ttx> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> ttx: Can you please sponsor the debdiff attached to bug 457660
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457660 in libxstream-java "jmeter.gui.action.Load: Unexpected error java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: XPP3 pull parser library not present. Specify another driver. For example: new XStream(new DomDriver())" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457660
<ttx> slytherin: can't do -- finalfreeze is on
<ttx> slytherin: I don't want to get axed by RMs
<slytherin> ttx: But it is bug fix.
<ttx> slytherin: yes, but not a release-critical one, unfortunately
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
<slytherin> ttx: Ok. I will add workaround in jmeter.
<ttx> slytherin: if that's possible, that's the best way of doing it
<ttx> slytherin: we can fix xstream in lucid, if that's still necessary
<slytherin> ttx: By then I will get this fixed in Debian so that we can simply sync.
<ttx> slytherin: sure. I should push to debian SVNs most of the fixes I did in libraries over the last months
<ttx> hopefully I'll have some free time next week to do so, if nothing catches fire
<ttx> slytherin: that should make merge/sync much easier.
<slytherin> yes, that would be nice
<ttx> slytherin: I've been planning to do it for months
<ttx> but reality prevented me from doing so
<slytherin> Anyone from motu-release team?
<geser> good morning
<geser> wrapster: what problem do you have?
<wrapster> geser: resolved it...
<wrapster> geser: the issue was by default all the *.so files that were (according to the 64 bit pkg) suppose to be in debian/<pkg>/usr/lib/amd64 were in <same>/usr/lib/ and I tried looking and this damn thing was not the staging dir.. there was debian/tmp that was used for staging and then it was copied over to respective pkg dirs under debian/ ; so i tried look at the configure/ makefiles and see if i go set it.. too many intricacies so i manipulated the deb
<wrapster> geser: thank a lot for your help...
<wrapster> of course nspr is done now.. I should start with nss now.
<wrapster> :)
<wrapster> i'll again come to you.. :)
<wrapster> geser: even after nspr being built successfully i get error while building nss, and what im assuming to be the issue is the upstream name....
<wrapster> I want to change it... how do i do it?
<wrapster> to something like libnspr-64
<geser> wrapster: upstream name of the lib?
<wrapster> yeah
<wrapster> currently its called libnspr4-0d
<wrapster> the 64bit one is also called libnspr4-0dnexenta-64
<wrapster> thats causing the issues..
<geser> sorry, don't know as I didn't need to know it till now
<wrapster> geser: when i dpkg -i <64bit one> it replaces the already present libnspr4-0d
<wrapster> thats 32bit
<wrapster> geser: ok np
<wrapster> anyone who can let me know pls?
<joaopinto> wrapster, not sure I understood your problem, libary package names are irrelevant for a building process
<joaopinto> dpkg -i will replace the already present only if you have names/control rules which allow that
<wrapster> joaopinto: one moment.. ill do a pastie.. and expalin
<wrapster> joaopinto: http://pastie.org/666412
<wrapster> i've explained everythign clearly there.
<joaopinto> wrapster, what you are describing, you are installing a different version for a package, you can't have mutiple package versions installed
<joaopinto> ops, i mean, is expected
<joaopinto> if you have to have both libs versions installed you need different package names
<wrapster> joaopinto: so how do i create different pkg names?
<wrapster> joaopinto: thats what i want!!
<azeem> the package name is defined in debian/control
<joaopinto> wrapster, you just set the names on debian/control and change the debian/* according to your needs ?
<azeem> wrapster: why do you need multi-arch nspr/nss anyway?
<wrapster> azeem: i changed it...
<azeem> to?
<wrapster> azeem: i was in a debate with soren on the same issue yday
<azeem> ok
<joaopinto> azeem, don't try to understand him, he is attempting something very odd :P
<wrapster> azeem: im actually building pkgs for nexenta.. not ubuntu...(but since its pkg question im asking)
<wrapster> joaopinto: accepted :)
<azeem> wrapster: I know that, it doesn't explain multi-arch nspr/nss though
<joaopinto> wrapster, your "how to rename" a package is a bit odd, as renaming is equivalent to building a package with specific name
<joaopinto> how did you build a package if you don't know how to name it :P ?
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah sorry about that.. how do i build a pkg with specific name
<wrapster> no ...
<azeem> 11:39 < azeem> the package name is defined in debian/control
<wrapster> its not like that.
<wrapster> yeah i know that.. and i did try it but it did not give me desired results..
<joaopinto> wrapster, the multiple binary packages names are defined on debian/control
<azeem> well, that's not very specific
<wrapster> ok..
<wrapster> will give it another shot and let you knw
<azeem> pastebin your debian/control
<joaopinto> wrapster, because you are not clear on your requirements
<joaopinto> wrapster, the package name was not changed ? those are the expected results
<joaopinto> it is not expected to fix something else that you are assuming to be related to package names :)
<wrapster> joaopinto: http://pastie.org/666417
<joaopinto> wrapster, if you want multi arch needs you need, different target locations and different package names
<joaopinto> and I mean names, not versions
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah got it.. looked at the control files carefully after azeem told me , think i got it
<wrapster> let me see
<joaopinto> wrapster, libnspr4-0d <- this is the package name
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah.. changed it.
<wrapster> joaopinto: ok that will cause more issues than required actually.. I need to almost change everything that i had done for libnspr4-0d
<joaopinto> wrapster, since you are cross compiling, why don't build a single package which provides both versions ?
<wrapster> yeah thats what i'm trying to do now...
<joaopinto> you need building rules for both arch cases and install them into the arch specific dirs
<azeem> multiarch is hard
<wrapster> joaopinto: yeah by the looks of it and my expertise its going to be tough
<wrapster> can you help me?
<wrapster> if i paste the rules file?
<azeem> why don't you wait till official multiarch lands?
<wrapster> azeem: cant.. have to get this up right away.
<azeem> wrapster: is this for nexenta directly, or are you just trying to recompile your own firefox package?
<wrapster> for nexenta
<joaopinto> wrapster, sorry, I have no interest for the specific problem you are trying to address,  and I think you should be learning trivial packaging before diving in such complex issues
<wrapster> joaopinto: ok
<joaopinto> also I am not familair with cross compiling
<wrapster> got it working.
<wrapster> changed it to libnspr-64
<wrapster> geser: can i ask for a bit more help(this time with nss) or should i just go :(
<amarillion> Why does git-buildpackage change the md5sum of my orig.tar.gz? Useless...
<ripps> Can somebody help me, I'm trying to make an updated uriparser-0.7.5 package, but for some reason, it keeps trying to generate api docs with doxygen, despite the fact that I don't have --enable-doc during configure, how can I stop it?
<geser> does it perhaps have a disable-docs option? to force no docs
<ripps> geser: I didn't see that option in configure.ac, but I'll try it
<ripps> geser: looks like it worked, thanks
<geser> it was just a guess, sometimes there is a disable option matching the enable option
<ripps> should have been disabled by default though
<Laney> amarillion: you should be using pristine-tar
<Laney> if you're just building the orig from the upstream branch then that behaviour is no surprise
<amarillion> Laney: I imported the tar with pristine-tar
<amarillion> but when I do git-buildpackage, and check the md5sum of the orig.tar newly created, it is different from the original orig.tar
<amarillion> Which leads to ppa uploads getting rejected
<Laney> why are you uploading the orig if the archive already has it?
<amarillion> I'm just doing dput my-ppa *source.dsc
<Laney> you should build with -sd and upload the .changes
<amarillion> what does the -sd option do?
<Laney> doesn't include the orig in the upload
<Laney> you should also check your gbp output to see how it's making the orig tarball
<amarillion> Ok, I did gbp with the -sd option, then tried dput again and now I get "Checksum doesn't match for ../pathvisio_2.0.0-0ubuntu1~ppa3~nbx1.dsc"
<amarillion> Packaging work is so frustrating. It's layer upon layer upon layer of scripts. I have no idea what is going on anymore
<ripps> I'm trying to build a libxspf package in pbuilder, now I've built a working uriparser library that I use a hook script to install, but during configure of libxspf, it says it can't find uriparser 0.7.5 or later, despite the fact that I know it installed the -dev and that the deb file contains everything necessary all pkconfigs, includes and *.la
<geser> ripps: look how it tries to find uriparser and check why it fails
<ripps> geser: already figured it out, the package needed pkg-config
<jfcgauss_> hi. regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apache2/+bug/458274, or in general "unused library dependencies" of shared libraries/executables in ubuntu/debian, i had sent an email to ubuntu-users list a while back, and then someone had replied mentioning that they were taking care of this problem. i think the problem is actually buried deep in libtool. when i set LDFLAGS='-Wl,--as-needed' during ./configure of a package, that flag gets put 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458274 in apache2 "unnecassary dependencies of apache2 modules" [Low,Incomplete]
<jfcgauss_> that makes --as-needed just useless
<jfcgauss_> so i have a patch for libtool :) http://www.pastebin.org/47506
<jfcgauss_> it is basically putting $linker_flags ahead of $libobjs and $deplibs
<ScottK> jfcgauss_: You might want to discuss that on #ubuntu-server.  The server team developers hang out there.
<jfcgauss_> it is not specific to servers
<jfcgauss_> i have ubuntu 9.04 amd64 desktop
<ScottK> Apache is maintained by the server team.
<jfcgauss_> ok but the libtool patch is for all the packages that use libtool basically..
<jfcgauss_> apache modules is just an example
<jfcgauss_> there are (were) hundreds of shared libraries in ubuntu with unused dependencies
<james_w> --as-needed is rarely used in packages though
<james_w> jfcgauss_: have you proposed your patch to the libtool developers?
<jfcgauss_> no i havent
<jfcgauss_> i'll do that
<james_w> jfcgauss_: http://www.mail-archive.com/libtool@gnu.org/msg10260.html
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=347650
<ubottu> Debian bug 347650 in libtool "libtool: Incorrect argument reordering" [Important,Open]
<hyperair> james_w: it's not really all that rare.
<james_w> http://www.mail-archive.com/libtool@gnu.org/msg05379.html
<jfcgauss_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtool/+bug/459095
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459095 in libtool "incorrect argument reordering" [Undecided,New]
<rhpot1991> siretart: yep I tested it, appears to run better.  I sent a test file off to someone else to test with itunes/iphone still waiting on word back from them
<jetienne> q. i got a .deb which has some not-yet installed-dependancies... how can i install those dependancies automatically ? like it is done by apt-get when it is coming from a repository
<jdong> install the deb, then apt-get -f install.
<azeem> use gdebi
<jdong> which works for the degenerate case of one deb
<jetienne> jdong: excelent, it did the job thanks
<jetienne> azeem: ok will try
<jdong> jetienne: for multiple debs, you can do a dpkg -i deb1 deb2 deb3 ; apt-get -f install
<jdong> for a single deb, gdebi will do it for you in a more user-friendly manner
<jdong> that is, it tells you beforehands if the operation can succeed...
<jdong> while with apt-get -f install, if the dependencies cannot be satisfied it'll just force the removal of the partially-installed debs from the last step
<jetienne> gdebi is nice but no cool for batch
<jetienne> jdong: ok
<stevecrozz> how do I get launchpad to accept a new source copy that I'm working on... dput gives me "Already uploaded to stevecrozz on ppa.launchpad.net"
<stevecrozz> the last build failed so I need to try a new one
<av`> stevecrozz, either remove the .upload file on your working dir or force the upload with dput -f
<av`> stevecrozz, you'll need to bump up versioning on changelog as well
<stevecrozz> av`: I think that's the part I'm missing... how do I do that?
<av`> stevecrozz, which version did you use before? e.g which version did the failed to build package has
<stevecrozz> php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu1
<av`> php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu2 will be the next one, I suggest you to happen a ~ppaX for PPA uploads
<av`> * append
<maco> i usually put my lp username intead of ppa
<stevecrozz> php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu1~ppa1 ?
<av`> maco, yes, that's fine as well
<maco> that way when a person looks at "apt-cache poiicy" they know which ppa a package came from
<av`> stevecrozz, php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu2~ppa1
<ari-tczew> policy * :>
<av`> stevecrozz, there is an handy compare-versions tool if you wanna see if a certain version is lower than the one you are uploading
<stevecrozz> is the changelog something you edit by hand? or is there a tool for that
<maco> stevecrozz: try "dch -i"
<av`> stevecrozz, dch -i makes a new entry dch -a uses existing one (if someone edited it before you)
<maco> itll create a changelog entry with your name/email and the date all set up, and open it in your editor for you to fill in
<maco> ari-tczew: yes thanks you
<stevecrozz> Perfcect.. looks like that works great
<av`> stevecrozz, dch -a works fine if you need to make some changes to a revision already touched by someone else
<maco> av`: what is this handy comparison tool?
<av`> maco, dpkg one^^
<av`> maco, dpkg --compare-versions
<maco> ah ok thanks
<jdong> maco: dpkg --compare-versions "old" -lt "new" && echo true || echo false
<av`> stevecrozz, plus dch -a puts your changes under your name and the changes already made by someone else under his / her name
<av`> stevecrozz, but you need dch -i for what you need now :)
<stevecrozz> thanks a bunch, dput sent it up
<av`> stevecrozz, let's hope it will get accepted now :)
<stevecrozz> av`: actually it was rejected because I didn't notice that dch used a bad email address
<stevecrozz> stevecrozz@stevecrozz-desktop
<av`> stevecrozz, eheh
<av`> stevecrozz, set it with DEBEMAIL
<stevecrozz> environment variable?
<kees> motu-release: I have uploaded usplash-theme-ubuntu-color for the FFe in bug 450809, if you could give it a push, please.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450809 in Ubuntu Karmic "[FFe] usplash missing progress indicator, color" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450809
<av`> stevecrozz, yep, export DEBEMAIL='stevecrozz@stevecrozz.com'
<av`> stevecrozz, same with DEBFULLNAME
<stevecrozz> ok
<maco> might want to put that export line in your ~/.bashrc
<stevecrozz> i shall
<stevecrozz> php5 (5.2.11-0ubuntu2~ppa2) jaunty; urgency=low    * added a valid email address
<av`> stevecrozz, yes, but why jaunty?
<av`> stevecrozz, is that on purpose or missed?
<stevecrozz> you mean why not karmic?
<av`> yes
<stevecrozz> Just because that's what I have right now.. I'll upgrade next week with the official launch
<av`> oh ok :)
<stevecrozz> av`: I'm getting frustrated now : Rejected:
<stevecrozz> Unable to find php5_5.2.11.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
<stevecrozz> all the rejection~
<av`> stevecrozz, paste me your changes file
<maco> stevecrozz: is the orig named wrong maybe?
<ari-tczew> propably you have wrong distro: e.g. unstable instead karmic if package getting from debian
<ari-tczew> in debian/changelog
<av`> ari-tczew, he has jaunty
<av`> ari-tczew, he pasted the changelog entry before
<av`> !pastebin | stevecrozz
<ubottu> stevecrozz: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. Ubuntu pastebin is at  http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from  command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic
<stevecrozz> av`: http://pastebin.com/d29cfce5a
<av`> ty
<geser> stevecrozz: how did you call debuild to build your source package?
<av`> stevecrozz, easy you didnt include the orig
<stevecrozz> debuild -S
<av`> stevecrozz, that means wrong debuild run
<geser> as even karmic has only php5 5.2.11 you need do pass -Sa for the first upload
<stevecrozz> how do i fix it?
<av`> stevecrozz, debuild -S -Sa
<ari-tczew> FYI: IMO debuild -S -sa is better because require .orig.tar.gz
<geser> once your have the .orig.tar.gz in your PPA -S will be enough
<av`> stevecrozz, run debuild -S -sa and you should see the orig included in your .changes file
<av`> stevecrozz, now you have only php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu2~ppa2.diff.gz and php5_5.2.11-0ubuntu2~ppa2.dsc :)
<stevecrozz> crap, i probably have to bump the version again huh
<av`> stevecrozz, no, if the package didnt get accepted you don't need to bump it
<geser> only for accepted uploads
<ScottK> Note to everyone: Universe is still open for business for fixes ....
<quidnunc> Is there any way to see what PPA url in sources.list is broken (i.e. when doing an aptitude update)?
<av`> quidnunc, you should see a warning or something I guess (I use apt)
<quidnunc> av`: I do, the problem is I only see the domain.
<av`> quidnunc, paste me some relevant lines
<av`> stevecrozz, 5.2.11-0ubuntu2~ppa1 should be usable
<av`> as far as you didnt get a package accepted yet
<stevecrozz> too late.. i skipped ppa1 :)
<av`> ^^
<stevecrozz> this has been quite the learning experience
<quidnunc> av`: http://dpaste.com/111141/
<av`> be careful with versioning stuff
<av`> quidnunc, you didnt specify a PPA
<quidnunc> av`: Pardon?
<av`> quidnunc, you just added http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic/main Packages to your sources.list
<av`> quidnunc, but you need to specify with PPA you want
<av`> * which
<quidnunc> av`: No. I have the full path. The problem is that the url moved.
<av`> quidnunc, paste me your sources.list
<av`> and tell me which PPA you wanna enable
<stevecrozz> yes.. it was accepted... lets hope the build works now
<av`> stevecrozz, yay!
<quidnunc> av`: I know where the problem is and have fixed it. But I have many PPAs and it was a lot of trouble trying to track down which one was problematic.
<av`> quidnunc, paste me your sources.list please
<av`> I can't see what's wrong if I have nothing to look at :)
<stevecrozz> av`: if I wanted to start with source code from another person's PPA instead of ubuntu's php source, is that just as easy?
<av`> stevecrozz, you would need to grab the sources manually or via apt-get source if you enabled that PPA in your sources.list
<quidnunc> av`: There is nothing wrong anymore. My question is when you have 10 PPAs in your sources.list and one of the urls is bad it gives the error message in my paste. How am I supposed to figure out which of the 10 is bad?
<stevecrozz> i think that might be the next thing I try
<av`> quidnunc, actually the warning you see Err http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic/main Packages
<av`>   404  Not Found should say it
<av`> quidnunc, this is a wrong PPA url
<quidnunc> av`: Yes but which of the 10?
<av`> quidnunc, plus I don't understand Ign http://192.168.2.1 karmic-backports/restricted Sources
<av`> you made a backport repo locally?
<av`> that's a LAN IP usually
<quidnunc> av`: No it is my approx package caching
<quidnunc> It is not relevant.
<maco> av`: or dget!
<av`> maco, yep :)
<av`> quidnunc, deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/xxxx/ppa/ubuntu karmic main
<av`> quidnunc, this is how your PPA link should look like in your sources.list
<av`> quidnunc, where xxxx is the guy / team who maintain that PPA
<av`> quidnunc, if you have http://ppa.launchpad.net karmic/main Packages in your sources.list, that's wrong
<quidnunc> av`: I don't.
<quidnunc> av`: I don't think you understand the problem
<quidnunc> Let me go more slowly
<av`> quidnunc, 'How am I supposed to figure out which of the 10 is bad?' aptidude / apt reports what you have on sources.list
<maco> s/guy/person/
<stevecrozz> av`: is there an easy way to make launchpad build packages for more than one version of ubuntu?
<quidnunc> I have 10 PPA urls in my sources.list. They were all correct at some point. Then someone change the location of their PPA making the old url broken. So I started getting the error messages in my aptitude update. But the error messages seemingly don't have enough information to isolate which one is bad. What is the reasonable thing to do?
<maco> <-- not a guy, has ppa
<maco> stevecrozz: no, unfortunately
<maco> stevecrozz: have to upload (wtih new version number) for each
<av`> quidnunc, checking all PPAs?
<av`> quidnunc, one by one till you get the bad one
<quidnunc> av`: That doesn't seem reasonable to me
<maco> binary search!
<quidnunc> av`: Anyway I just wanted to confirm that there was no other way. Thanks.
<maco> comment out the last 5 and see if it works
<av`> stevecrozz, just change target on changelog
<av`> stevecrozz, from jaunty to any other target distro
<maco> if so, comment out the last 3 and see if it works. if not 6 or 7 is bad ;) if the first step didnt work, one of the first 5 is bad, so bisect them...
<quidnunc> Thanks I know what binary search is.
<av`> quidnunc, again, aptitude / apt reports back what you have on your sources.list
<maco> sorry
<maco> lisp and haskell channels.....wow yep, im sure you would
<maco> scary functional languages...
<av`> quidnunc, so if a PPA not works here, I get a warning that a specific PPA not works anymore
<quidnunc> av`: Did you see the error message I pasted? It doesn't provide *which* PPA is broken, only the domain.
<quidnunc> (which are all ppa.launchpad.net)
<av`> quidnunc, let me test it
<ScottK> Sounds like a good topic for #ubuntu to me.
<av`> quidnunc, apt-get update will tell you
<av`> W: Impossible to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/test/ppa/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404  Not Found
<stevecrozz> so my build says Pending (2510)    what does that mean?
<av`> stevecrozz, those are build points
<av`> stevecrozz, e.g priority
<av`> quidnunc, so in fact you know what's broken ;)
<av`> quidnunc, anyway that's more an #ubuntu thing yes
<quidnunc> ScottK: Consider me gone.
<av`> ScottK, he took your comment the wrong way
<av`> eheh
<jetienne> q. i need to write a init.d script for a package im making (a usual network daemon), any good example for me to copy ?
<joaopinto> jetienne, apt-get source some_daemon :) ?
<joaopinto> check apt-cacher-ng source for example
<geser> if the package targets karmic (or lucid), wouldn't it be better to write an upstart job?
<jetienne> ok thanks
<joaopinto> is debian using upstart also ?
<joaopinto> Debian
<geser> there was some discussion going on, but I don't know the state of it
<joaopinto> if it's not, is not a good option :\
<geser> one can provide both :) and modify later the Ubuntu package to use the upstart job instead the init script
<ScottK> joaopinto: Not until after Squeeze is out
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> long time noe see
<ari-tczew> I have a question
<ari-tczew> I'm preparing debdiff security for jaunty
<ari-tczew> package first needs get to -proposed?
<ari-tczew> or directly to -security?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: security uploads go straight to -security
<ari-tczew> OK, thnx
<jetienne> q. i have created my .postinst and .postrm files into debian/ , how do i ask dpkg to put them in the .deb ?
<jetienne> is there a magic dh_* to do ?
<chrisccoulson> jetienne - no, just make sure the file names match the name of the binary package you want to insall them in to
<chrisccoulson> (or just call them "postinst" and "postrm" if it is a single binary package)
<jetienne> hmm ok thanks. so i did another mistake. will look more :)
<chrisccoulson> jetienne - it is dh_installdeb which copies the maintainer scripts in to the DEBIAN folder for the binary package, but I assume you're calling that else your package would not build at all anyway ;)
<jetienne> chrisccoulson: thanks. it was a typo :) postint instead of postinst
<chrisccoulson> jetienne - excellent, glad it's sorted now:)
<jetienne> grumble the uninstall fails due to trailling .pyc
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sebner> huhu bddebian sistpoty  ;)
<sistpoty> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty: we made it in time, great hmm? thx for your acks ;)
<sistpoty> sebner: yes, and thanks for your testing (fuddl told me he didn't test network playing :P)
<sebner> sistpoty: heh, this was initial testing though (if it's useable for ubuntu), now I have to do proper/deep testing :P
<bddebian> Heya sebner
<sistpoty> sebner: there was a -2 upload following shortly, does your sync request cover this one as well? (looked like cleanup mostly)
<sebner> sistpoty: imho yes, or doesn anything speaks against it? It's really most of cleanup
<sistpoty> sebner: no, but it needs a motu ack
<sebner> sistpoty: really? because of final freeze?
<sistpoty> sebner: no, because it's a different version to sync
<sistpoty> (problem is that I doubt that -1 is still available in unstable)
<sebner> sistpoty: archive admins sync newest versions anyways.
<sebner> sistpoty: -2 is for me "further improvement of 2.5.2 upload"
<sistpoty> sebner: but I believe you'll get asked if -2 is still ok to sync?
<sebner> sistpoty: ok, I'll update the bug. Anything else needed?
<sistpoty> sebner: thanks! not that I know of :)
<sebner> fine
<sistpoty> (of course a test-build, but iirc it's not the huge -data package that was -2... but I might be wrong on this one)
<sebner> sistpoty: yeah it's the small package and I'll testbuild
<sistpoty> :)
<sebner> sistpoty: we need to sync quickly so you can't annoy me further :P
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> sebner: did I mention testing? ;)
<sebner> sistpoty: testing was done :P
<sebner> not enough imho
<sistpoty> :)
<sebner> I need to correct that over weekend :P
<sistpoty> haha
 * ScottK is still hoping people will work this weekend on fixing broken stuff.
<ScottK> We still have almost two days before Universe final freeze even starts
<sebner> yeah, no nexuiz testing but FTBFS fixing!
<sistpoty> ScottK: can an application link against both libqt3 and libqt4? (looking at qtiplot atm)?
<ScottK> sistpoty: Yes.
<sistpoty> oh, then the fix for breakage might be simple. Thanks ScottK
<ScottK> Of course it has to be designed for that ....
<sistpoty> oh, /me will just test if it builds and if it works :)
<sebner> sistpoty: ScottK : FYI, nexuiz -2 builds, installs fine and game still works
<ScottK> OK.
<leonel> hello  can somemotu check this  diffs  for bug  446838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838
<rhpot1991> siretart: ping have some test results to share with you
<rhpot1991> siretart: definitely works better than before, lame no longer fails, but the resulting files seem to have issues with them
<rhpot1991> siretart: they are playable with my cowon player, and vlc.  But totem, itunes, ipod, etc refuse to play the files.
<rhpot1991> siretart: http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m523c0345
<sistpoty> bleh, of course it's not as simple as I thought for qtiplot :(
<ScottK> sistpoty: Debian has a newer version than us.  Perhaps it solves it?
<sistpoty> ScottK: looks like it needs (forward-|back-)porting for qwt (embedded copy)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Ah, I think I remember discussing that one.
<ScottK> IIRC I got grumpy about even more embedded stuff.
<ScottK> We may as well have it building than not at this point I'd say
<sistpoty> hm, actually what's strange is that it has got a build-depends on libqwt5-qt4-dev and a depends on libqwt5-qt4, so it might not use the embedded source copy
<sistpoty> oh, no, that was libqwtplot3d in question, /me checks again
<ScottK> sistpoty: I tend towards the idea of if it builds, ship it.  If it has a problem we can SRU it and I'd rather than than have it unbuildable.
<sistpoty> ScottK: *nod*
<siretart> rhpot1991: please share this information at bug #401406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401406 in lame "[Karmic] libmp3lame fails in converting audio" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401406
<siretart> rhpot1991: TBH, your pastebin does not look necessarily proove or show a problem in lame...
<rhpot1991> siretart: well I'd say that lame is fixed at this point but there may be an underlieing issue with ffmpeg or something associated
<chrisccoulson> hi siretart - are you still looking at this gnome-screensaver / VLC issue?
<rhpot1991> siretart: should I comment as if I tested the packages from the PPA, are they the same ones I tested?
<chrisccoulson> stgraber - were you experiencing bug 454487 too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 454487 in gnome-desktop "The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error. During on a FreeNX server suring a session. The crash does not happen when xrandr plugin is disabled." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/454487
<rhpot1991> siretart: would it be at all helpful if I gave you any test files?
<rhpot1991> siretart: commented, I'll open up a new bug for this other issue
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: yes
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: I described it quickly in one of my comments on the bug that you fixed (libxklavier issue) but didn't actually file it on LP, I'm happy someone else did.
<chrisccoulson> stgraber - i just uploaded a modified gnome-desktop package to my PPA. would you mind testing it?
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: great !! I'll sure do
<chrisccoulson> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa
<chrisccoulson> it should fix that specific crash, which looks just like an unsupported X call
<siretart> rhpot1991: of course. it would allow to reproduce the issue more easily
<rhpot1991> siretart: bug 459453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459453 in ffmpeg "[Karmic] ffmpeg creates corrupted files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459453
<rhpot1991> siretart: you can use this file to run tests with: http://www.baablogic.net/9002_20091022223800.mpg
<rhpot1991> siretart: I can get you larger test files if you need, just yell
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-24
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: it's working
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: hmm, hang on a sec, testing something else
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: confirmed, with the two packages you pushed to your PPA it's working
<stgraber> gnome-settings-daemon only doesn't work but upgrading gnome-desktop as well fixes everything
<chrisccoulson> stgraber - that's expected, the gnome-settings-daemon package was just for some debug information for another issue ;)
<chrisccoulson> i probably should have mentioned that first
<chrisccoulson> thanks for testing though!
<chrisccoulson> stgraber - this is probably SRU material now. would you mind adding a karmic task to that bug, and i will add a karmic-updates milestone and work on the SRU paperwork now
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: sure
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<stgraber> chrisccoulson: approved
<chrisccoulson> cool, thank you
<ari-tczew> mdeslaur: now you can review attached debdiff in bug #431080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal6 "Fix critical security vulnerability (SA-CORE-2009-008)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<zul> okies dokie lets fix some ftbfs
<LaserJock> question. I've got a package where upstream is dead, there is no patch system, the packaging is in git, and I'd like to patch it. Should I just do it in git or should I add a patch system?
<chrisccoulson> Laserjock - by "packaging" is in GIT, do you mean just the debian/ folder, or the whole debian source package (upstream source + debian/ folder)?
<LaserJock> whole thing
<LaserJock> I have 3 branches currently
<LaserJock> upstream, debian, and pristine-tar
<LaserJock> I was thinking I could do the patch as a separate branch
<LaserJock> but I wonder if it's a pitfall to do that much in DVCS
<chrisccoulson> i normally always add a patch system, but i've touched quite a few packages where people have directly patched the upstream source without adding a patch system (outside of bzr / GIT)
<chrisccoulson> if it's in GIT, then it's probably ok without a patch system, especially if upstream is dead anyway
<wrapster> why is it ,that all of a sudden the build for 64bit complians that my machine is not 64 bit?
<wrapster> http://pastie.org/667621
<lifeless> because you've told it that
<lifeless> --host=i386-pc-solaris2.11 \
<lifeless>                     --build=i386-pc-solaris2.11 \
<wrapster> based on dpkg-architecture... what needs to be changed?
<wrapster> i know i386 has to .. but where and how?
<wrapster> lifeless: dpkg-architecture no where shows that this is 64 bit
<lifeless> dpkg-architecture
<lifeless> ...
<lifeless> DEB_HOST_ARCH_BITS=64
<lifeless> seems fine to me
<lifeless> perhaps you should try Ubuntu :)
<wrapster> hmm
<lifeless> I have to assume that you, or another solaris kernel+ubuntu userland developer have patched dpkg or glibc or some other package wrong
<wrapster> hmm
<ScottK> zul: I accepted your Ruby/LDAP upload.  Did you notice that it was ....build2 so it'll get automatically sync'ed over in Lucid?
<ScottK> If that was on purpose, fine.  Just wanted to make sure.
<wrapster> lifeless: thats really weird ... coz just about 5 hrs ago i built the a 64bit version of the same pkg and installed it on this very mahcine..
<lifeless> wrapster: well, check you don't have any variables influencing it and debug dpkg-architecture
<wrapster> hmm
<LaserJock> can you put a specific exception in a watch file?
<bodhizazen> How do I update the standards-version ?
<jmarsden> bodhizazen: Check the package really conforms to the new version and then edit the Standards-Version: line in debian/control to the new number, and add an entry to debian/changelog saying you bumped the standards version to 3.8.3 or whatever.
<bodhizazen> jmarsden, I bumped the line, but got errors when I did that
<jmarsden> bodhizazen: Be specific... what errors?  pastebin something I can read please?
<bodhizazen> I tried to google the Standards-Version 3.8.3 - not much luck in finding something telling me what I am doing wrong
<bodhizazen> W: <pachage_name> source: empty-debian-diff
<jmarsden> That has nothing to do with standards version as far as I know... it suggests confusion over source vs packaging stuff, and failure to keep them separate, such that debuild creates a zero length diff file...
<jmarsden> bodhizazen: You do have an orig.tar.gz source tarball, plus your debian/ tree, right?
<bodhizazen> yes
<bodhizazen> when I change the Standards-Version back to 3.8.1 I do not get that warning , and the package builds
<jmarsden> and the orig.tar.gz has *no* debian/ stuff in it?
<bodhizazen> it does have debian/stuff in it
<jmarsden> aha.  The Packaging Guide is pretty clear about not doing that... did you read that part of it?
<bodhizazen> I read it, but it is long and I do not recall seeing that information
<bodhizazen> let me try fixing that
<jmarsden> If you include the debian/ in the tarball then you are in effect building a "native" package, which is a different and somewhat unusual thing to be doing.
<jmarsden> The bit in the Packaging Guide is: "If a package already contains a debian/ directory, do not repackage it. Ask the author(s) to delete debian/ and provide a diff.gz instead. This makes it easier to review their work, and it separates packaging from program source. "
<lifeless> something I think is a bit bong if the upstream don't have a dvcs
<lifeless> packaging productises software, why shouldn't upstreams productise their code.
<jmarsden> lifeless: Feel free to suggest changes to Policy in an appropriate forum :)  But for now, I'm trying to help someone package something per the current policy and expected and documented approach, not debate it.
<bodhizazen> jmarsden, well, I am building this package from scratch
<jmarsden> So you are both author and packager.  OK... so you should still follow the guidelines and keep the two things separate, as far as I know.
<lifeless> jmarsden: who was debating ? ;)
<bodhizazen> I had to include /debian/pre and debian/post scripts , but remove everything else from the tar ball and it now builds
<bodhizazen> without warnings
<lifeless> jmarsden: btw, having debian in the upstream tarball doesn't make the resulting package a native package.
<bodhizazen> is that a problem , to have some things in debian in the tar ball ?
<lifeless> bodhizazen: as jmarsden says, its frowned upon
<jmarsden> lifeless: Per the packaging guide: "A native package is one that is specific to Ubuntu/Debian. It has the debian/ directory containing the packaging information and any changes to the source included in the tarball (usually <packagename>_<version>.tar.gz). "
<lifeless> bodhizazen: the primary reason its frowned upon is that our toolchain shows a single diff from tarball to packaged source per source upload, and if there is packaging
<lifeless> data in the tarball, that diff becomes insufficient to tell what will happen when the package is built
<bodhizazen> well I do have a debian directory, but it does not contain that kind of information
<lifeless> jmarsden: you have confused necessary and sufficient
<lifeless> jmarsden: having a debian dir in the upstream tarball is not sufficient to make it a native package
<lifeless> bodhizazen: what does it contain?
<jmarsden> Quite likely... I'm just going by what the guide said... perhaps it should be fixed to be more specific about the other things (version number style in debian/changelog?) necessary for it to be native?
<lifeless> no, it assumes [rightly] full familiarity with the toolchain
<bodhizazen> it contains 3 scripts
<lifeless> bodhizazen: called?
<bodhizazen> perinst postinst and postrm
<lifeless> bodhizazen: re: changing the standards version. See /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<bodhizazen> *preinst
<lifeless> bodhizazen: those scripts are typically part of the packaging metadata; it would be much better for us if they were not there.
<lifeless> bodhizazen: because otherwise a reviewer will see e.g. debian/rules and debian/control and not those scripts
<bodhizazen> is it better to build with Standards-Version 3.8.1 then ?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> you should read the upgrading checklist
<lifeless> whatever error you are getting is [probably] not related to having those scripts in the tarball
<bodhizazen> when I update the Standards-Version to 3.8.3
<bodhizazen> I am getting
<bodhizazen> W: <pachage_name> source: empty-debian-diff
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so, a) have you read /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<bodhizazen> I do not get that when I keep Standards-Version 3.8.1
<lifeless> b) clearly you have more than those three scripts in your upstream tarball!
<lifeless> jmarsden: I seem to have taken over the conversation; sorry.
<bodhizazen> those are the only things I need to add to the tar ball in debian to build with the 3.8.3 standards
<lifeless> bodhizazen: repeating your assertion doesn't move this forward
<jmarsden> lifeless: That's fine, I'm only a bugfixer and packager of a few things myself, not (yet?) a MOTU...
<lifeless> please pastebin 'ls debian' in a frest extracted copy of your tarball
<bodhizazen> in the one that works ?
<lifeless> you have more than one release?
<lifeless> bodhizazen: lets go back a step. Are you packaging this for inclusion in Ubuntu, or for uploading to your own PPA?
<jmarsden> lifelies: 22:10 <bodhizazen> I had to include /debian/pre and debian/post scripts , but remove everything else from the tar ball and it now builds
<lifeless> jmarsden: thanks
<bodhizazen> ls debian
<bodhizazen> postinst postrm preinst
<bodhizazen> lifeless, for now, ppa
<bodhizazen> and I do not seem to have a /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/ directory, what package is that in ?
<lifeless> bodhizazen: debian-policy
<lifeless> which Ubuntu policy builds on
<bodhizazen> thank you
<lifeless> the errors from lintian, which you are seeing, are about Debian policy
<bodhizazen> is there a way to know where the error in policy is coming from ?
<jmarsden> Yes, if you run lintian with the -i switch you get an explanation of each warning as well as the warning itself.
<jmarsden> also you can do    lintian-info -t empty-debian-diff
<bodhizazen> OK, thank you for your patience, I will look at this
<lifeless> bodhizazen: ok, I think you should do your build with 3.8.3, and pastebin (that means http://paste.ubuntu.com):
<lifeless>  - the output
<lifeless>  - the zcat of the diff
<lifeless> e.g.
<lifeless> debuild -us -uc 2>&1 > build.log
<lifeless> pastebinit -i build.log
<lifeless> zcat ../<the diff.gz path> | pastebinit -i -
<lifeless> then we can really see whats going on
<bodhizazen> you are very patient and I appreciate that
<bodhizazen> with your help I was able to sort it, as it turns out my tar was the problem
<bodhizazen> I have removed the debian directory, re-packaged the source, and it now builds with Standards-Version 3.8.3
<bodhizazen> =)
<jdong> bodhizazen: lifeless rocks :)
<jdong> for so many reasons too.
<bodhizazen> this packaging stuff is not easy =)
<maco> once ya get the hang of it it gets easier :P
<jdong> that it does
<jdong> just a lot of rules and exceptions to keep in mind :)
<maco> once you learn that debuild -S -sa is needed if you want to dput the orig tarball, that helps too :P
<jdong> once you've been through the drill a couple times, at least you know where to look to refresh your memory.
<ari-tczew> how can I join to ubuntu-bugcontrol ?
<lifeless> see the wiki
<lifeless> it has details for everything :)
<ari-tczew> oh, this bureaucracy :P
<AnAnt> can someone sponsor this: LP 459629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459629 in sabily-xsplash-artwork "FFe: Fix english verse translation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459629
<ari-tczew> devs, is there a complete work on maven2?
<ari-tczew> people says on launchpad that their problems has been resolved
<ari-tczew> but bugs are still open
<lifeless> ari-tczew: if the bug is open and shouln't be close it
<lifeless> otherwise, the bug should be open:P
<ari-tczew> I guess that developers are working on getting remaining packages libmaven* or libplexus*.
<lifeless> ari-tczew: we'
<lifeless> re in deep freeze for the release
<ari-tczew> I just only want to know what are doing in Ubuntu as proposed member to Ubuntu BugControl ;-)
<ari-tczew> yes I know
<lifeless> Ask on specific bugs
<lifeless> I'm not doing anything in that space at the moment, the whole maven collection is basically just synced from Debian
<ari-tczew> yes, I know... ;-)
<ari-tczew> I think about jabref
<ari-tczew> @launchpad is reported bug which says that jabref in karmic is broken
<ari-tczew> where can I talk about security updates - SRU ?
<ari-tczew> here? or other channel?
<lifeless> ari-tczew: for universe packages here
<lifeless> for main ubuntu-devel
<lightnin_> Hello. I wonder if there is someone here who wouldn't mind answering a few packaging questions...
<lightnin> Goodday, gentlefolk. I am wondering if it is possible to submit a source package to a ppa that will build on multiple Ubuntu versions (karmic and jaunty).
<dtchen> I don't know offhand if you can do it with just one source package upload.
<dtchen> You certainly can do it with multiple source package uploads, one for each targeted version.
<dtchen> (changing the distribution field in debian/changelog and regenerating the source package)
<lightnin> Ah I see.
<lightnin> Do I need to setup pbuilder any differently? I am running jaunty, but want to build for karmic..
<dtchen> it'll be best to have a separate Karmic pbuilder
<lightnin> Thanks dtchen! Found a nice blog post about it.. setting up now...
<lightnin> Another question... The ppa I'm working on is for Scratch, a programming language for kids developed at MIT.
<lightnin> Scratch runs on a squeak virtual machine, so the package is mainly installing / configuring that.
<lightnin> Recently someone with a 64 bit system tried to install but couldn't because we haven't submitted an amd64 package.
<lightnin> But when they forced the install, everything worked.
<lightnin> Is it acceptable to just submit the same package as amd64 and i386 compatible?
<dtchen> lightnin: are there real constraints such that it can't run on ppc, ia64, etc.?
<lightnin> Yes, because we are just installing a pre-built virtual machine binary.
<lightnin> When (if?) the squeak-vm package gets updated, we'll stop installing our own and just depend on the squeak-vm i386, or amd64 (or ppc if it exists).
<lightnin> So, given that, I guess I should change the Architecture field in my control file to: i386, amd64
<lightnin> or rather i386 ia64
<dtchen> you could do that if you're certain that the vm binary works fine on amd64.
<ryanakca> Should manepages go in foo or in foo-data?
<ryanakca> s/mane/man/
<lightnin> Hmmm... just one user reporting on our forum that it does. Also - should I add i686 to architecture line?
<ScottK> ryanakca: foo-data
<ScottK> lightnin: We don't have an i686 architecture.
<ryanakca> ScottK: thanks
<lightnin> ScottK: Ah, ok. Thanks. :) So just i386 and ia64, assuming there are no issues with the squeak-vm.
<ScottK> lightnin: ia64 is Itanium.  Proabably not what you want.
<ScottK> You probably want amd64.
<ScottK> That's both AMD and Intel 64 bit.
<lightnin> ScottK: Thanks! I got confused by all the tags that dpkg-architecture -L gave me...
 * ScottK wonders where the last minute rush of MOTU uploading bug fixes went?
 * DktrKranz hidez
<ryanakca> Is the goal to get http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html fixed, or is it too late? (Noting also that the page is a month and a half old)
<ScottK> ryanakca: It's not to late.
<ScottK> ryanakca: The page is updated when packages are fixed, so stuff listed needs doing.
<ryanakca> I have the file debian/knmap.lintian-overrides that contains 'knmap: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/knmap', however, when I run 'lintian -IivmE knmap*i386.changes', lintian still complains that 'knmap: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/knmap' ... what am I missing. I don't see the lintian override getting included in the binary package
<ScottK> ryanakca: You shouldn't override that anyway
<ryanakca> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/300771/ ....
<ScottK> ryanakca: OK.  Makes sense.
<ScottK> ryanakca: You need to put exactly what lintian spits out as the error.  Usually when I've had problems, that was it.
<ryanakca> ScottK: Copy pasted it :/
<ScottK> OK, no idea then.  Sorry.
<ryanakca> Also, if I don't manage to fix the LaTeX errors with libspe2 (one of the FTBFS packages on the above list), one way to get it to build would be to drop the -doc package (and comment out the couple of lines in Makefile that build the documentation for it). Not ideal, but imho, it's better than having no libspe2 nor the packages that are blocking since they have it as a B-D...  Would that be a possibility?
<ryanakca> ScottK: OK, thanks anyways :)
<ScottK> ryanakca: When you copied and pasted, did you copy the entire line starting with "W: " (or whatever type it was)
<ScottK> ryanakca: At this point I'm OK with dropping docs to fix FTBFS.
<porthose> anyone up for sponsoring bug #458600? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458600 in rlpr "rlpr FTBFS" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458600
<ryanakca> ScottK: No (I modeled it after the rest of the packages in debian-qt-kde's kde-extra's SVN repo)
<ScottK> I may be wrong, but I think you need that too
<ryanakca> ScottK: OK, I'll try including it. In regards to libspe2, it may only be the PDF documentation that we need to drop (and keep the rest)
<ScottK> OK.
<arand_> What is the real upgradeable package associated with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicmethods ??
<tonyyarusso> How should I deal with a bug report of the "please update package to $version" variety when $version is already in Debian unstable ready for syncing for lucid?
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Mark them wontfix with a comment that it'll happen automatically for Lucid.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: gotcha, ty
<ryanakca> ScottK: libspe2 uploaded to PPA (I don't own any powerpc nor ppc64 computers... and since the two archs aren't supported in Ubuntu, I wonder if I should bother spending any more time on the package)
<ScottK> Maybe TheMuso could have a look if it's powerpc related.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: err, does wontfix = invalid on LP?
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Not quit, but you may not have wontfix.  Invalid is fine with the comment.
<ScottK> quit/quite
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, I don't see a wontfix in my menu.  Must not be cool enough.
<ryanakca> Haha, PPA rejected libspe2 because "Cannot build any of the architectures requested: powerpc ppc64 all"
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: I think you need to be in bugsquad (or whatever they call it now) or be MOTU.
<tonyyarusso> prolly
<ari-tczew> bugcontrol
<dbernar1> Hi, can you explain please why this bug has the debian bug linked on the top?
<dbernar1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/456674
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456674 in phpmyadmin "giuseppe@ulisse:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart * Restarting web server apache2 apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName ... waiting apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName [ OK ]" [Undecided,New]
<maco> dbernar1: because its been reported upstream at debian too...
<maco> so if they find a way to fix it, we get notified
<dbernar1> But by another user, and afaict, it is a different issue, etc. Was this relation between the two bugs done by the system or by a human, and how can I tell?
<maco> by a human, always
<dbernar1> Hm...
<dbernar1> Where does it say?
<maco> what?
<maco> say what?
<dbernar1> Where does it say who made the relation.
<maco> the activity log
<maco> the machine can do it, but it doesnt go find and lok on its own. itll link bugs mentioned in the report or comment
<dbernar1> Where's that, I don't see those words on the page.
<maco> add /+activity to the end of the url
<dabaR> So.... the debian guy made the connection between the bugs?
<dabaR> Is the bug watch added the thing that made the link?
<dabaR> Is the "bug watch added" the thing that made the link?
<maco> yes
<dabaR> Hm...interesting.
<dabaR> How does it work again, can anyone close bugs?
<dabaR> you know, your nick is funny...
<dabaR> I mean, it is funny that you would have that nick.
<dabaR> I use the word maco to mean kitty.
<dabaR> And it is sort of a coincidence, I had a server called paco for a while.
<maco> its derived from my real name
<dabaR> paco meaning doggy.
<dabaR> Cool.
<maco> in what lang?
<dabaR> It is a modification of the word maca, in Yugoslavian languages.
<dabaR> Croatian, Serbian...
<maco> zdravo :)
<dabaR> Cool.
<maco> i think anyone can remove bug links, but only bug control & devs can close bugs
<maco> at least as wontfix...
<maco> not sure about who can do fix release and invalid
<ScottK> Anyone with an LP account
<maco> thanks
<maco> wasnt sure if bugsquad membershi was needed
<ScottK> maco: Could you have a look at a lmms merge from Debian.  It got an approved FFe, but no one ever did the upload.
<maco> i can try
<ScottK> Thanks.
<maco> ive never done a merge before, though
<dabaR> Anyway, I am considering turning this bug into a question.
<ScottK> maco: Use grab-merge from ubuntu-dev-tools
<maco> alright thanks
<ScottK> porthose: Looking
<ScottK> porthose: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<porthose> ScottK, ty :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: maybe you know, what about lm-sensors-3 in karmic? Is it will not merged?
<ari-tczew> bug #336418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336418 in lm-sensors-3 "Please merge lm-sensors 3.1.1-4 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336418
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It's in Main, so unless it fixes a really serious bug, no.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It looks far to invasive for this late to me.
<ari-tczew> ubuntu's users says that 3.1.1 version supports more devices
<dtchen> ari-tczew: that's Lucid material, really.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Yes, but it's a lot of change, so the regression risk is too high now.  Also it's more for #ubuntu-devel since it's in Main anyway
<ari-tczew> ok
<mirsal> hello
<ScottK> Hello mirsal
<mirsal> I need some insights about how to submit a patch against an ubuntu package in universe
<maco> is there a bug reported
<maco> ?
<mirsal> yes
<maco> is the patch attached to the bug?
<mirsal> I actually uploaded a patched package to my ppa
<mirsal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/401039
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401039 in xf86-input-evtouch "Add support for TouchPack family touchscreens (Clevo TN120 series tablets / ASUS eeeTOP and other devices)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<maco> for testing? attach the same patch to the bug, or, since you already generated a new source package, make a debdiff and attach that
<maco> then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<mirsal> okay
<mirsal> Didn't know about debdiff
<mirsal> thanks
<maco> (debdiff just means run "debdiff oldpackage.dsc newpackage.dsc > newpackage.debdiff)
<ogra> mirsal, cevo120tn definately works since intrepid with that driver
<ogra> *clevo
<mirsal> ogra, Recent ones don't
<ogra> (though all clevo 120s i have seen use ideaco touchscreens)
<ogra> did clevo change the touchscreen ?
<mirsal> ogra, yeah.
<mirsal> New ones are supported by evtouch
<ogra> bastards .... they should at least indicate that in the model name :P
<ogra> old ones are too :)
<mirsal> New ones are *also* supported by evtouch :p
<ogra> i developed all changes i did to the evtouch driver in intrepid on a clevo 120tn
<mirsal> the package only lacks a fdi file
<ogra> yep
<mirsal> ogra, nice :)
<ScottK> ogra: Since you're at the very least somewhat familiar with this, could you review the change?
<ogra> sadly i didnt have the time to go on working on it in jaunty and karmic .... so it's a bit behind
<ogra> ScottK, sure
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ogra> mirsal, btw, do you know bug 317094 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317094 in xf86-input-evtouch "meta bug to collect lshal touchscreen info" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317094
<mirsal> ogra, yes, I already submitted the needed info there
<ogra> well, would be good if someone who understands how the fdi stuff works could go through it and create .fdi files from the collected lshal info :)
<mirsal> ogra, Actually my company is selling computers with these touchscreens, so we needed them supported on ubuntu real quick, so I also build a package.
<ogra> mirsal, can you attach the debdiff to your bug ?
<maco> ogra: are you the one that was poking at wacoms before?
<ogra> nope
<mirsal> ogra, I'll do that in a minute
<ogra> tablet != touchscreen :)
<maco> i wonder who that was then
<ogra> tablets are wa more complex due to the additional input device you need
<ogra> *way
<maco> yeah ive noticed
<maco> i have one that half-works ;)
<ogra> maco, i thought wgrant was on that a while ago
<maco> ah ok. i thought it was someone with a g* last name
<ogra> not sure if he still is though ....
<maco> wgrant: ping
<dtchen> contentless pings are bad.
<ogra> and lonely
<maco> the context is 2 lines up!
<maco> ok 5
<ogra> so your ping cant hold hands with it :(
<dtchen> and clients don't always have sufficient scrollback
<dtchen> and it's a PITA to go to irclogs.uc, etc., etc.
<maco> fine fine
<dbernar1> Sorry, did anyone reply? My connection is flaky. Does the apport tag on a bug in launchpad mean the bug was reported by apport?
<ScottK> dbernar1: Yes
<maco> wgrant: this is a ping regarding wacom support, wondering if you were still working on it
<ogra> now thats a happy ping :D
<dbernar1_> OK, well, I am trying to see whether I can resolve some bugs. I see several bugs, related to installing phpmyadmin, on launchpad, and I tried to install it myself. The error seems to be caused by the fact that mysql-server is not installed, phpmyadmin does not have it as a dependancy, and does not want to install without it.
<maco> simple enough to fix. which version are you testing this on?
<dbernar1_> 9.04.
<dbernar1_> Same as the bug
<maco> lemme see if its fixed in 9.10
<dbernar1_> make sure you don't have mysql-server installed...
<maco> i was just going to read the dependency list
<dbernar1_> \
<maco> it says it suggests mysql-server
<maco> which means it wont automatically pull it in. are you saying one of the install scripts requires mysql-server?
<dbernar1_> how do you read the dep list? apt-cache show?
<maco> yes
<dbernar1_> Well...I think, I am not 100% sure, heh, that the phpmyadmin is a php based mysql administration app
<mirsal> (back)
<mirsal> ogra, I attached the diff
<maco> dbernar1_: yeah
<dbernar1_> And, it creates a mysql database for its config.
<ogra> mirsal, checking ...
<dbernar1_> maco: So, yes, it seems that one of the install scripts requires it.
<ogra> mirsal, hrm ... why do you patch udev ?
 * maco tries toinstall
<ogra> i explicitly disabled that (in intrepid though) since it messed up a lot
<dbernar1_> Ya, I did the same, it is quite simple to reproduce the error.
<mirsal> ogra, oh ok
<ogra> mirsal, does it work with just the fdi ?
<mirsal> yes
<ogra> ok, can you make a debdiff that has just the fdi ? the fdi looks ok and i'll hapily upload it right away
<maco> dbernar1_: this?
<maco> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket                 â
<maco>   â '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
<ogra> *happily
<dbernar1_> maco, sure, it should even open up an apport for you.
<mirsal> okay
<maco> dbernar1_: it does not
<maco> dbernar1_: it asks if i want to abort, retry, or ignore. if i choose ignore, it just finishes installing without being configured anywhere
<dbernar1_> maco, well, it did for me, I tried a few times to retry.
<dbernar1_> maco, so a feature, then? :-)
<maco> dbernar1_: is it possible that phpmyadmin can be installed on one system to configure a database on another system, so not having a local db isnt catastrophic?
<dbernar1_> maco, I don't think so. I will see something
<mirsal> ogra, I attached the debdiff to the same bug
<mirsal> dbernar1, maco Yes, I use phpmyadmin to administer remote machines, and even a NDB cluster behind mysql proxy.
<mirsal> phpmyadmin definitely does NOT require a local mysql server
<ogra> mirsal, uploaded
<mirsal> ogra, Cool :) out of the box touchscreen support for new clevo tablets and Asus EeeTOP
<ogra> yeah !
<ogra> mirsal, its sitting in the queue now, waiting for a archive admin to approve it
<ScottK> ogra and mirsal: Accepted.  Thanks.
<ogra> thanks :)
<mirsal> :)
 * ogra now can happily go and eat lobster :) 
<mirsal> hehe
<TheMuso> ryanakca: libspe2 is pretty much powerpc only. What are you trying to fix?
<ryanakca> TheMuso: FTBFS
<directhex> is banshee okay on ppc now? it was meant to be moar better in 1.5.1
<TheMuso> directhex: Really don't kno. What were the problems with it?
<directhex> TheMuso, failing to run on startup. sqlite issues
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Its not on the FTBFs list.
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Ok, I'll have a look for you.
<TheMuso> directhex: sorry ^^
<TheMuso> ryanakca: sorry
<TheMuso> ryanakca: but I can have a look anyway.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: OK
<TheMuso> ryanakca: its built on powerpc.
<TheMuso> and i386
<ryanakca> TheMuso: Hmm... OK... should http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html be removed from the topic? It doesn't match the qa.ubuntuwire.com one (possibly because it's dated 20090909)
<ari-tczew> yea, old date
<TheMuso> ryanakca: I don't know.
<ryanakca> ... which would also explain why I thought libspe2 was FTBFS :)
<TheMuso> yes but libspe2 doesn't show up on the list at all, and it should for amd64, armel, etc.
<wgrant> ryanakca: The 20090909 one is the result of a test rebuild. It is somewhat useful even though it is old.
<ryanakca> OK
<ari-tczew> after final release karmic, fixing FTBFS is needed?
<maco> fixing FTBFS is needed now too
<wgrant> After Karmic is released, everything will be retried in Lucid.
<ari-tczew> before final I understand, but I ask what about after
<wgrant> Fixing FTBFSes in Karmic post-release is limited to cases where an SRU or security update would otherwise be issued.
<maco> wgrant: hmmm? so if theres no security patch, and it doesnt build...screw it?
<wgrant> maco: Right. Or we would have several hundred pointless SRUs.
<maco> ok
<maco> im not sure why theyd be pointless though
<wgrant> Little or no change to the end user.
<wgrant> Archive bloat.
<maco> does the old version of the package get used instead? or does the package just act like removed-from-archive?
<wgrant> Download bloat.
<wgrant> The old version gets used.
<maco> ohok
<wgrant> Or the current version, if it did build but no longer does.
<ari-tczew> yhym so after final release we are go working on new development cycle e.g. lucid right?
<dbernar1_> maco, what can I do with those bugs?
<maco> dbernar1_: which?
<maco> dbernar1_: phpmyadmin?
<dbernar1_> Yes.
<maco> on remove it does it too, but it gives the option to not try to configure a local db
<wgrant> ari-tczew: Right. Lucid should open a week or two after Karmic is released.
<maco> maybe the bug should be that on install it should *ask* whether its a local db
<ari-tczew> great :D
<dbernar1_> maco:
<maco> blank line to you too!
<dbernar1_> Haven't been using IRC for a while...:)
<dbernar1_> maco: Is there a recommend instead of suggest level for dependency?
<dbernar1_> maco: do you happen to know where that is documented?
<maco> depend, recommends, and suggests are the 3 levels
<maco> recommends are automatically installed
<maco> in karmic it is still suggests
<maco> install completes, but only if i tell it to ignore the error
<dbernar1> See...it really seems like everyone would want to install mysql when installing phpmyadmin. Except if they are a expert user.
<dtchen> it's documented at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
<dbernar1> dtchen: Thank you.
<dtchen> dbernar1: np
<dbernar1> This is my situation: I have found several bug reports on launchpad of people not able to install phpmyadmin. Those are sent by apport. I tried myself, and was able to reproduce. The error points to the fact that mysql-server is not installed as part of the phpmyadmin installation, and the phpmyadmin install script guides the user to select the option for when a mysql server is installed on the host.
<dbernar1> I would like to perhaps move forward toward a resolution of this issue, which would be to close the bugs, be it just by eduucating the users, or whatever. If you have a suggestion, please tell me.
<maco> i think it ought to say "do you want to configure the mysql stuff now? y/n"
<maco> which i think it does
<maco> then if you choose yes, it should ask you if its local or remote
<maco> if they say local and its not installed, inform the user that they need to install mysql-server and tell them "once youve done that run dpkg-reconfigure phpmyadmin"
<dbernar1> My thought on that is that it is not a sane default. But, let's say I wanted to do that, how would I proceed? Should I find out whether this is the same in Debian?
<dbernar11> Sorry, did you reply?
<ari-tczew> I see that generally Ubuntu needs more 'non-profit' contributors
<xiambax> im sure no ones cares but i have to brag
<xiambax> i just bought a bare bones mobo for 50 bucks with a proc
<xiambax> and had a gig of ram kicking around and a spare case and psu
<xiambax> 50 bucks and i now have a 4th computer
<xiambax> pretty rad
<dbernar12> what does set -e in a bash script do?
<TheMuso> dbernar1: It causes the script to exit early if an error state is encountered, i.e a command exists with a value other than 0.
<TheMuso> Off hand, does cmake respect CFLAGS?
<lifeless> cmake is a Makefile compiler
<lifeless> so check the Makefile it writes
<TheMuso> ah ok
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-25
<DivineOmega> Just fixed an issue in gwibber on Karmic - https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/460069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460069 in gwibber "Large font size, cannot be changed or overridden" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<DivineOmega> Any chance this could get into Karmic?
<ScottK> For a bug fix it's not too late.
<ScottK> My plate is full, but perhaps another MOTU could sponsor it.
<DivineOmega> Ah okay. I'm new to submitting of bugs.
<DivineOmega> It is a very minor patch.
<ScottK> Attach the patch to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Laney> I believe asac and kenvandine are interested in gwibber
<DivineOmega> ScottK: I've attached the patch already, I shall subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors now.
<Laney> you could speak to them
<DivineOmega> asac: Interested in my little gwibber aesthetics patch? https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/460069
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460069 in gwibber "Large font size, cannot be changed or overridden" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jdong> indeed that's a remarkably simple fix, though it's curious why the +2 was in there in the first place
<DivineOmega> jdong: Indeed. It seems very odd. The sole function of it appears to be an offset from the system default font. Very strange.
<Laney> hence why someone familiar with the code should check
<DivineOmega> jdong: If you've tried it though, you have to admit it makes gwibber look a lot nicer.
<jdong> DivineOmega: as Laney said, why we'd rather hear from someone familiar with the codebase before pushing the upload button
<Laney> DivineOmega: you could also try #gwibber
<Laney> if this really is the right fix it should be upstream to anyway
<Laney> too*
<jdong> DivineOmega: but bugfixes are never too late to get into Karmic, rest assured. Even if RC->Final is missed, this is a perfect candidate for -proposed through a SRU
<DivineOmega> Laney: Of course. This was my first look at the gwibber source, so admitedly, I may be overlooking something.
<DivineOmega> jdong: SRU?
<jdong> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jdong> the -updates repository
<DivineOmega> jdong: Ah, okay. Thanks.
<MTecknology> is there any channel for people learning to be motu?
<ari-tczew> here?
<jmarsden> MTecknology: This one should be fine for that; quite a few people here are not (yet?) MOTUs.
<ari-tczew> like me :P
<MTecknology> ok, I didn't know if there was another channel for that
<MTecknology> I need to apply for a mentor, I'd still like to learn more first
<RoAkSoAx> MTecknology, the mentor is only gonna guide.. :)
<RoAkSoAx> guide you*
<MTecknology> RoAkSoAx: ya- and I'd like to know most of how everythin goes first so the mentor just spends a week or two saying, "no, do it this way instead"
<dbernar1> Where does debconf pull the strings it presents to the user from?
<dbernar1> I mean, something like db_get phpmyadmin/setup-password
<dbernar1> Where does that get it's string to present to the user?
<porthose> <packagename>.templates
<RoAkSoAx> MTecknology, that's pretty much how I spent my mentorship :) I just worked and worked and worked and when I had doubts, I just asked here or my mentor, and that's it. It won't matter if you know everything, as long as what you know, you do it very good, check everything, etc
<porthose> debian/<packagename>.templates :)
<dbernar1> porthose: and that is included in the source of the package?
<dbernar1> Cause I don't see it.
<porthose> it's part of the debian dir
<dbernar1> Found it.
<porthose> :)
<dbernar1> It is named templates.
<dbernar1> in the debian dir
<porthose> it can also name it as above, some just use templates :)
<dbernar1> Ya, thank you.
<porthose> god I cant type tonight :\
<dbernar1> Is there any other place there could be more strings?
<dbernar1> I seem to be missing some
<lfaraone> Hey, is it too late to get sponsorship for the upload of medium-priority-fixes (in Debian it'd be "grave) which are new-upstream-versions for Universe? (bug 459535)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459535 in checkgmail "Can't login: need new SVN snapshot" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459535
<jdong_> something that the MOTU release team has to decide...
<lfaraone> jdong_: basically, as is, the package is unable to authenticate to gmail.
<jdong_> understood.
<lfaraone> jdong: basically, the only code that's changed is that related to logins and message polling.
<jdong> haha well you can tell me all of this, but I don't posess any of the magical powers to make it happen :)
<jdong> you should probably try to capture a ScottK or similar.
 * lfaraone casts his net.
 * lfaraone misses ScottK by a few hours.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ari-tczew> hello
<sistpoty> hi ari-tczew
<dbernar11> Where can the templates for debconf db_get be stored?
<sistpoty> dbernar11: in debian/
<dbernar11> is there any other place?
<sistpoty> dbernar11: what do you have in mind?
<dbernar11> It is just that a db_get invocation calls phpmyadmin/dbconfig-install, and I can not see that in the templates file in the phpmyadmin package
<ScottK> lfaraone: Go ahead get it uploaded
<sistpoty> ScottK: have you processed the syncs byhand or do you have a way to do that with your ubuntu-archive hat on nowadays?
<lfaraone> ScottK: yessir. /me greps for a sponsor.
<ScottK> sistpoty: By hand with syncpackage
<dbernar11> And I see the input screen with the text, but I can not figure out where the text comes from.
<sistpoty> ScottK: should I sync nexuiz-data? (I could abuse fast university network :))
<ScottK> sistpoty: Yes.  Please.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ok, will do it, thanks
<porthose> dbernar11, it may be part of the dbconf-common package
<porthose> dbernar11, it has pre translated strings that it uses to ask questions from the user
<dbernar11> where does it have them?
<porthose> not sure you would have to look at the source :(
<sistpoty> ScottK: stupid question: where can I find syncpackage?
<ScottK> sistpoty: Traditionally it pitti's people directory
<ScottK> it/in
<sistpoty> thanks!
<ScottK> I can mail it to you if you can't find it.
<sistpoty> ScottK: already got it, and also found the dpkg-genchanges call I was looking for :)
<sistpoty> (which is rather nasty! *g*)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Would you please figure out what to do about Bug 444527 ?
<lfaraone> jdong: you're a MOTU, right? think you could sponsor this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444527 in geda-gattrib "FTBFS? (Perhaps upgrade to gEDA 1.6.0)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444527
<sistpoty> ScottK: since we can't sync 1.6, I fear we won't manage to package 1.6, so I'd prefer to stay with 1.4 and grab the fix from the bug
<ScottK> sistpoty: OK.
<sistpoty> to package all of 1.6 to be exact
<ScottK> Please do.
<sistpoty> on my list :)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Is qtiplot on your list for tonight?
<sistpoty> ScottK: yes, given that you're ok with the embedded copy
<ScottK> sistpoty: Not ideal, but builds is better than not.
<sistpoty> of libqwt3d
<ScottK> Yeah
<sistpoty> *nod*, as I fear porting to the new API would be more than I can do in the few hours
 * ScottK nods
<sistpoty> ScottK: FYI: I've added a build1 version for nexuiz-data (just uploading), since I saw that fteqcc failed to upload (both were uploaded from fuddl to unstable)
<ScottK> sistpoty: OK.
<ScottK> I'll do nexuiz itself is ~ 75 minutes after fteqcc has published.
<sistpoty> oh, -data also b-d on fteqcc (versioned build-dep though, so I assume it'll dep-wait once accepted)
<ScottK> I'll wait to accept it, just in case.
<sistpoty> excellent, thanks!
<ScottK> sistpoty: How come you didn't merge with unstable for lmms?
<ari-tczew> devs I got a question
<sistpoty> ScottK: we've got the vst plugin split off (iirc to not draw in wine to ubuntustudio cd's), which was preserved in the ppa, so merging from unstable seemed like more error prone than to reuse the tested version from the ppa
<wgrant> ScottK: How is LP treating you lately?
<ScottK> sistpoty: OK.  Makes sense.
<sistpoty> ScottK: and it was somewhat easier :)
<ScottK> OK
<ari-tczew> in drupal5 has been added a patch to enabled modrewrite
<ari-tczew> -  # RewriteBase /drupal
<ari-tczew> +  RewriteBase /drupal5
<ari-tczew> is it needed to drupal6 too?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Check the code.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Accepted.
<sistpoty> ScottK: thanks
<ari-tczew> default in drupal6's code is modrewrite disabled
<ari-tczew>  # RewriteBase /drupal
<ari-tczew> and there is no 02_htaccess.dpatch
<ari-tczew> so I don't know whether is it necessary or not?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: maybe testing the package might give a hint if it's needed?
<ari-tczew> I found bug #453559 I guess that it's related to this no-existing patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 453559 in drupal6 "Drupal6 MysQL and parse error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/453559
<ari-tczew> without testing I think that patch is needed, as it's reported in this bug
<ari-tczew> comment: I suspect the .htaccess files are missing or incorrect because tinkering with it made the parser error change in another error, but then again: "I know nothing, I am from Barcelona".
<ScottK> fta or asac: Would one of you please take care of getting Bug #246822 uploaded?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246822 in prism "FFe - Prism should be updated to new upstream version 1.0b1" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246822
<micahg> ScottK: I'm still working on the package for prism
<micahg> cutoff is noon UTC?
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  Yes.
<ScottK> We can fudge it a bit if needed.
<micahg> ok, I hope to have it done in the next couple of hours
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> micahg: I'd also appreciate it if someone from mozillateam could look at Bug #217908 and let me know if there's anything for motu-release to do on that one.  My sense is not, but it's confusing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217908 in cairo "FFe: Pixellated Images in Firefox/Opera due to incorrect EXTEND_PAD implementation in several video drivers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217908
<micahg> well, fta and asac are asleep
<micahg> but I can ask asac when I talk to him later
<micahg> apparently upstream is still working on it
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<micahg> ScottK: can you help me understand a line of a .mk file?
<sistpoty> micahg: can you paste the line somewhere
<sistpoty> ?
<micahg> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/300984/
<micahg> it just checks to see if it's set?
<wrapster> is there a way i can measure the throughput of my hard disk?
<sistpoty> micahg: rather if $(XPI_FILE) exists (and errors out if not)
<micahg> ok, so if it doesn't exist, it echo's the message?
<sistpoty> micahg: yes
<micahg> ok
<micahg> great thank
<sistpoty> yw
<micahg> now I have to figure out why it can't find the file :)
<sistpoty> wrapster: yes, bonni++
<wrapster> ?
<wrapster> sistpoty: what is it?
<sistpoty> erm, bonnie++ even (package)
<wrapster> og it
<wrapster> got it...
<wrapster> ok there is no man page?
<sistpoty> oh, try --help (don't recall the details, sorry, was some time since I last tried it)
<wrapster> sistpoty: nope
<wrapster> sistpoty: i tried this.. bonnie -d /test_bonnie -s 24000 -html
<sistpoty> wrapster: as I wrote, I'm sorry, but I don't recall the details :(
<wrapster> hmm
<wrapster> sistpoty: is there an irc for this?
<wrapster> anywhere else i could ask for help?
<sistpoty> no idea actually
<wrapster> ok but at least can you tell me why even after creating a new partition fdisk -l is not recognising it?
<wrapster> to test bonnie with 24G i had to create a new partition , did so. created  a 40G partition.. but fdisk -l is not listing it.
<wrapster> for me to mount
<sistpoty> wrapster: that's strange actually, as I assume that fdisk -l just reads the partition table from the mbr
<wrapster> yeah....
<sistpoty> wrapster: of course you can't mount it since there's no FS yet
<sistpoty> but fdisk should actually list it
<sistpoty> wrapster: you did call fdisk -l <devicetoharddisk>, did you? (w.o. the device I just saw that it won't print anything)
<wrapster> sistpoty: i got it working..
<sistpoty> :)
<wrapster> im guessing that a flush was not completed that it was not being reconginzed
<wrapster> running bonnie as well :)
<wrapster> for a test of 24G
<wrapster> i just want to see the throughput of my baraccuda
<wrapster> sistpoty: performing builds on this machine takes too long.. I have a 6G ram 2.4Ghz dual core
<wrapster> 7200rpm disk .. yet its crawls.
<sistpoty> hm, you should have a better box than me then ;)
<sistpoty> dear qtiplot, why just do you create me pains over pains by just not wanting to build whatever I try. kthxbye
<dbernar1> Hi, I see there are several bugs open for the package phpmyadmin, basically people trying to install it before they installed mysql, and the install fails. When the installer asks them retry/abort/ignore for the error about not being able to interact with mysql, if they choose retry apport opens up and they report this bug.
<dbernar1> It was suggested to me that the right solution would be to detect this within the installation script, and allow the user to perhaps install the package.
<dbernar1> Well, anyway, lost my point about where I was going with this...
 * dbernar1 is an airhead
<ScottK> wgrant: To answer your question.  About the same as always.  The biggest change is it's even less compatible with my web browser of choice than it has been historically (that is, however, more Konqueror's fault than Launchpad's)
<wgrant> ScottK: How are the +queue timeouts?
<ScottK> wgrant: Still having them every now and then, but better than they were.
<ScottK> It's been a while since I hit a package I couldn't accept at all if I did it by itself.
<wgrant> Great.
<wgrant> They're working on more speed improvements there.
<ScottK> I'm on hiatus from reporting LP bugs again though.
<ScottK> If I stop to care much about it, I find it so frustrating the complete crap they are doing that my bug reporting is excessively sarcastic and unfriendly.
<wgrant> Yes, it gets that way.
 * sistpoty gave up some while ago... asking question (via lp) usually leads to much better results than arguing that the ui doesn't indicate what I've got to click to get things done
<wgrant> sistpoty: Feel free to whine at me with specifics, and I will see what I can do.
<ScottK> wgrant: A lot of the U/I problems would get better if they would just stop changing it.
<sistpoty> wgrant: e.g. how can I mark a bug to affect another package?
<ScottK> The combination of iconification and rearranging stuff is just about impossible.
<wgrant> sistpoty: 'Also affects distribution'
<wgrant> They know that sucks.
<sistpoty> wgrant: heh, I didn't try that, because it doesn't affect, well... another distribution ;)
<ScottK> wgrant: Then why do they do it?
<ScottK> Before 1.0 it was "Hey, we aren't 1.0 yet.", but now ....
<wgrant> ScottK: Because it has been like that for more than four years.
<wgrant> Oh, the UI changes in general.
<wgrant> I don't kno.
<wgrant> 3.0 makes more sense than 2.0. I don't know if it makes more sense than 1.0.
<sistpoty> I mean I'm down to the level where I believe that I'm doing something wrong with the UI so I ask a question. most of the time I'm doing s.th. wrong, since things changed and I didn't notice
 * sistpoty gets mad at qtiplot and loses some hope to fix it before FinalFreeze
<wgrant> IIRC 4.0 won't have a full new UI, which is good.
<sistpoty> cool :)
<wgrant> However, they are rethinking the bug page at the moment.
<sistpoty> wgrant: oh, security pet bug of mine: I'm sometimes fiddling with bugs at work and would like to change status... how can I do this in a secure manner (other people have root accounts to the box)
<wgrant> sistpoty: You can't!
<sistpoty> crap, /me hope noone steals my lp cookie (I know who has root and trust these)
<sistpoty> imo the whole browser cookie thingy (which can be used to change e.g. the gpg keys) is the weakest link in the authentication chain
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> eg. I just need to steal ScottK's cookie, and I can push out lots of malicious updates in just a few minutes.
<sistpoty> true
<wgrant> It is more than a bit scary.
<virtuald> Let them eat cake
<maco> sistpoty: email interface for bugs?
<sistpoty> maco: didn't work with unsigned mails?
<maco> set up your clietnt to sign emails?
<sistpoty> maco: tried to sign mails, how to register that with lp?
<maco> you have your gpg key setup in lp?
<maco> just email: 12345@bugs.launchpad.net to change stuff in a bug (obviously substituting in the proper number)
<sistpoty> maco: sure that's my *signing key* for packages... of course my work key (which anyone with root rights can get access to) must never be setup to upload packages
<maco> its possible to set >1 key in lp, isnt it?
<maco> can you set 1 to be your signing key for pkgs and the other to be just for emails?
<sistpoty> maco: last time I tried, I've seen that any key is treated equal, so no
<maco> oh boo
<maco> now there's a feature request.....
<sistpoty> yes :)
 * sistpoty gives a last shot at qtiplot, and probably gives up then due to lack of sleep
<sistpoty> :(
<ScottK> TheMuso: Accepted ubuntustudio-meta, so you should be good.
<micahg> how do you expand a % in a makefile target?
<sistpoty> micahg: % is pretty much like * in shell, so every file (or rule iirc) fitting it will match
<sistpoty> so "make someting" with "%: " will expand % to "something"
<micahg> hmm: I have something like install-%-stamp: as a target in the file and install-refractor.xpi-stamp as the item it needs to target
<micahg> I get the error target not found
<sistpoty> which probably means that install-refractor.xpi-stamp doesn't exist
<micahg> right, but install-%-stamp does
<sistpoty> micahg: you mean file with a "%" in it?
<micahg> no, inside the make file is the target listed
<sistpoty> yes, than % gets expanded to the middle part (so the target is nstall-refractor.xpi-stamp in this case)
<sistpoty> +i
<micahg> but it says target not found...
<micahg> sorry, no rule to make target
<micahg> thats what it says
<sistpoty> that's strange... maybe http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html.gz#index-g_t_0040code_007b_0025_007d_002c-in-pattern-rules-909 will shed some light?
<sistpoty> ScottK: sorry, qtiplot completely escapes me, and I need some sleep now, so no fix from me before FF :(
<ScottK> sistpoty: OK.  Well if you can't figure it, I doubt I'll have much luck.
<ScottK> We can still manually approve stuff, so it's not final yet.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Good night.
<sistpoty> ScottK: I can't even figure what went wrong... it boils down to debian bug 551222 (so I didn't find the root cause of it)
<ubottu> Debian bug 551222 in unknown "qtiplot: FTBFS: make[2]: *** No rule to make target" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/551222
<sistpoty> gn8
<micahg> anyone know what happened to the ubuntu-artwork directory?
<hyperair> what ubuntu-artwork directory?
<micahg> well, /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork
<iulian> ScottK: Thanks a lot for the syncs.
<ScottK> iulian: No problem.  I'm about to go pass out.  I'll reappear to hit accept for anything in queue at 1200 UTC, so please push fixes in.
<iulian> ScottK: OK, sleep well.
<hyperair> micahg: it still has things here
<hyperair> the ubuntu-docs package
<TheMuso> ScottK: thanks, hopefully I may have some powerpc FTBF fixes for you before the 1200 deadline .:0
<didrocks> ScottK: thanks for Quickly approval :)
<Laney> we didn't finalfreeze for universe yet, did we?
<wgrant> Laney: 12UTC, IIRC.
<wgrant> Which is a little over 2 hours away.
<Laney> Yes, good.
<Laney> Worried that my upload just now would have been naughty
 * hyperair coughs and attempts to plug bug #460303 before finalfreeze.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460303 in gnome-do-plugins "GNOME-Session does not lock screen prior to hibernating/suspending when using DK-Power" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460303
<hyperair> debdiff should be appearing shortly, i just sent it via email
<jetienne> q. in the control file the "Depends:" line, is there a specific order for the packages, or any order will do ?
<ari-tczew> if package is in main you can't depends on packages which exist in universe/multiverse
<jetienne> ari-tczew: ok, but inside the "Depends:" line itself, is there an order ? like "Depends: python, mysql" will work like "Depends: mysql, python" ?
<azeem> AFAIK, it is not guaranteed that dpkg/apt install the Depends in any order
<azeem> so yes, both should work equivalently
<jetienne> ok cool thax
<jetienne> thanks
<RainCT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/301228/ any idea what's wrong here?
<azeem> RainCT: what's the compile line?
<RainCT> azeem: http://paste.ubuntu.com/301232/
<RainCT> azeem: no idea?
<azeem> RainCT: sorry, no :(
<azeem> RainCT: well, except for the fact that apparently g++ tries to compile a (C?) .c file
<RainCT> azeem: It's a C++ file (using <iostream>, cerr, etc.), upstream doesn't seem to know about extensions :P.
<azeem> ok
<ScottK> OK, we're past final freeze, so all uploads need motu-release approval.  Bug fixes still wanted, particularly FTBFS fixes, so don't stop.
 * micahg is still working on Prism
<RainCT> azeem: well, I'll leave it for someone else to figure out.. Thanks
<jetienne> micahg: firefox stuff ?
<micahg> mozilla app, yes jetienne
<jetienne> micahg: any significant progress ? i have working on it a long while ago
<jetienne> like 2y ago :)
<micahg> what Prism, we're trying to get the latest version in instead of the one from 2 years ago
<ari-tczew> is exist anywhere tool/script to converting simple patches to dpatch?
<jetienne> http://prism.mozilla.com/features/ <- oh yeah they got closure to air
<jetienne> systray, notification, launchonlogin
<micahg> ScottK: according to asac, bug 217908 needs to be fixed upstream by mozilla, so the current fix works with the latest X server
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 217908 in cairo "FFe: Pixellated Images in Firefox/Opera due to incorrect EXTEND_PAD implementation in several video drivers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217908
<micahg> oh, he also said, hard to pick patch without it being landed upstream
<ari-tczew> is anybody here from MOTU-SRU?
<jetienne> mvo is the one handling apt-get code, correct ?
<iulian> Hmm.
 * iulian looks at ScottK 
<iulian> Is 4 hours of sleep enough for you?
<RainCT> jetienne: yes
<jetienne> RainCT: thx
<ari-tczew> iulian: could you splite (separate) bug on lp for jaunty and karmic? bug #371187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371187 in drupal6 "clean URL not enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371187
<ari-tczew> I'm not a member of any team where can bug control
<ari-tczew> :-/
<ari-tczew> now is generally bug affected to drupal6, I need separate it for jaunty and karmic
<iulian> You can do that by yourself, I think.
<iulian> Is that bug fixed in Karmic?
<ari-tczew> nope, so I want to separate for karmic too
<ari-tczew> and I'm preparing debdiff for fix it
<ari-tczew> I can permission only for "Nominate for release"
<ari-tczew> I need to talk with someone who can take me to the team ubuntu-bugcontrol, because it is frustrating not be able to exercise fully work.
<iulian> Well, you should've attached the debdiff first and then subscribe motu-sru.  Please attach the debdiff as soon as possible and once the bug is fixed in Karmic, open a Jaunty task as well.
<iulian> I believe there's a wiki page explaining how to join ubuntu-bugcontrol.
<ari-tczew> debdiff will attach in other bug (security issue) for jaunty
<iulian> Then why you subscribed motu-sru to that bug?
 * iulian is confused a bit.
<ari-tczew> don't panic, in few minutes I'll attach debdiff for karmic
<micahg> iulian: bug control cannot open versioned tasks
<micahg> I think it's either motu or core-dev
<ari-tczew> by the way, motu-sru replying to a very long time
<RainCT> Uploaders can approve nominations.
<ari-tczew> I always need to sending mails to members of motu-sru
<RainCT> (so MOTU for universe/multiverse, Core Dev for main/restricted)
<ari-tczew> so I need to joint MOTU in future
<ari-tczew> join*
<RainCT> but I don't think that nominations and bug tasks are the same
<RainCT> can't remember how to create the later though :/
<micahg> nominations anyone can make
<ari-tczew> iulian: but if debdiff will upload for karmic, lp will close bug automatically, so I need to open task for jaunty & karmic now
<ari-tczew> perhaps someone else from MOTU can open task?
<hyperair> does anyone here play some d3d using game on wine on intel graphics on karmic?
<DktrKranz> iulian: do FTBFS fixes require preventive motu-release approval, or they can be uploaded to unapproved, and then approved?
<iulian> DktrKranz: The latter.
<DktrKranz> cool
<asac__> ScottK: hey. prism is now uploaded. i double checked it to work properly now ... so dont get scared by the changelog ;)
<asac__> probably needs a new more minutes to get in queue
<jetienne> q. i would like to help the user to create mysql user i need. so to put something in the postinst or something ? is there an existing example i could copy ?
<porthose> jetienne, phpmyadmin uses dbconfig-common have a look it may help you :)
<RainCT> I've just written a little script.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/301343/ - WDYT?
<jetienne> porthose: thanks
<RainCT> as the initial setup before you can start doing packaging stuff usually takes quite some time (eg. look at the sessions during UDW), I've though having a script to help with this may be helpful. (I still plan to add other stuff to it: creating a pbuilder-dist environment for the devel release, etc.).
 * iulian has written something similar for himself.
<RainCT> iulian: maybe there's something useful in there you could add to mine?
<sebner> RainCT: what's that useful for?
<RainCT> sebner: I've just said it.. :P
<iulian> RainCT: Not really.  You've done it nicer.
<sebner> RainCT: ah, more for new contributors?
<RainCT> sebner: yeah
<sebner> kk nice
<sebner> RainCT: concentrate on fixing FTBFS instead! :P
<RainCT> iulian: took much more time than I wanted, though :P
<iulian> Heh :)
<RainCT> sebner: why fix FTBFS if you can train slaves to fix them? *g*
<sebner> RainCT: I'm wondering if there are still any around :P
<DktrKranz> sebner: merge pycentral + cdbs, and you'll fix 90 in a row :P
<sebner> DktrKranz: tell iulian and ScottK . They'll approve :P
<DktrKranz> I think we're to late for those intrusive changes
<DktrKranz> *too
<sebner> nahhh
<sebner> still plenty of time
<sebner> :D
<DktrKranz> but I plan to do them when Lucid opens, so we should finally get rid of python 2.6 transition
<sebner> then we can finally start python 3.1 transition  \o/
<sebner> :P
<RainCT> ok, I've added it to ubuntu-dev-tools as setup-packaging-environment
<iulian> sebner: Is the patch for stepic committed to SVN?
<iulian> DktrKranz: What abput py-asterisk?
<iulian> s/abput/about/
<sebner> iulian: well no, it's the same version as hardy and last svn commit was 1 year ago ;)
<sebner> iulian: scottk brought it to debian though
<ScottK> iulian: Not on a long term basis (4 hours of sleep).
<sebner> ScottK: I fixed your package stepic :P
<iulian> sebner: Do you have commit rights to DPMT?  I'd like to see it there.
<ScottK> sebner: I noticed.
<ScottK> iulian: I'll take care of that.
<sebner> iulian: I'm afraid that I'm only in pkg-cli
<iulian> ScottK: Cool, thanks.
<ScottK> asac__: I went ahead and accepted prism.  Given the short time before the archive gets locked down for release, please keep a close eye on bugs (and double check it builds)
<asac__> ScottK: yes.
<asac__> ScottK: the gwibber upload is a bit tricky ... it wasnt done using the patch system, and we hav a debian/ only patchsystem ... so replaying is tricky
<asac__> so either i need to commit this upstream or do something about the packaging ...
<ScottK> asac__: Oops.  Sorry about that.   It was late and I was tired.
<asac__> not that its a real blocker
<asac__> yeah
<asac__> i am not even sure why upstream had that
<asac__> it definitly does not fix the real bug
<asac__> just he offset
<asac__> adjustments
<asac__> real bug: changeing font in ui does not work
<asac__> i think i will upload a backout for that
<asac__> as it just adjusts the offset ... which is rather a subjective thing
<asac__> and imo we should follow what upstream decided on that
<asac__> ok uploading the backout
<asac__> ok uploaded ubuntu3 for gwibber which backs out that change. if its an issue we should do that upstream and as an sru
<asac__> will open the bug again putting rational there
<ari-tczew> question: can MOTU member unsubscribe motu-sru from bugs?
<ScottK> asac__: Gwibber accepted.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Only motu-sru can do it.
<jetienne> q. is there a way to do sed inplace ? like i need to modify one of my config file automatically when upgrading the package
<ari-tczew> so 3 members is not enough for motu-sru
<asac__> ScottK: thx
<asac__> gave instructions how to properly fix it
<jetienne> dbconfig-common is not doc at all, grumble
<DktrKranz> iulian: my patch will be temporary, I hope to revert it when/if pycentral is fixed
<iulian> DktrKranz: Oh, cool then.
<DktrKranz> (for both packages)
<Zhenech> jetienne, sed inplace? sed -i? :)
<jetienne> Zhenech: thanks, since i found it by mysql :)
<jetienne> myself!
<Zhenech> :)
<sebner> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<sebner> Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno 111] Connection refused
<sebner> anybody else seeing this problem?=
<ScottK> sebner: We've had several successful uploads in the last few hours.
<sebner> ScottK: yeah, I did some too ;) Now I want to upload another ftbfs fix
<ScottK> I'd say wait a few minutes and try again.
<sebner> I'm trying since 2 minutes but ok
<ScottK> Scream in #launchpad if it doesn't get better.
<sebner> aye aye
<sebner> bad magic is preventing me to fix FTBFS *hahaha*
<iulian> Hmm.
<sebner> ScottK: any successful uploads the last 15 minutes?
<ScottK> Not that I know of
<sebner> kinda b0rken then
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> :(
<sebner> ScottK: DktrKranz also can't upload. B0000rken. 4 days before release :(
<ScottK> Urgh.
<sebner> #LP is also kinda dead
<sebner> Weekend
<sebner> ...
<iulian> That's bad.
<iulian> Same error mesage?
<DktrKranz> yes
<iulian> s/mesage/message/
<DktrKranz> I opened a ftp session too, "connection failed"
<ScottK> How about #canonical-sysadmin
 * DktrKranz tries there
 * sebner looks
<sebner> huhu jono
<jono> hey sebner
<sebner> jono: let your might work and make soyuz work as we want to upload FTBFS fixes :D
<jono> hehe
<jono> good luck!
<sebner> it seems you missed the point "your might" :P
<jono> eh?
<jono> I am not sure if I can help :)
<sebner> you are the mighty jono
<sebner> ^^
<jono> hehe
<ari-tczew> can someone from MOTU review this? bug #371187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371187 in drupal6 "clean URL not enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371187
<ari-tczew> there is a debdiff bugfix only for karmic
<sebner> ScottK: iulian : Working again :D
<ScottK> Thanks.
<iulian> Ah, great!
<ScottK> Bug #460303 looks like an important fix to get in.  Would a MOTU please look at this for sponsorship?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460303 in gnome-do-plugins "GNOME-Session does not lock screen prior to hibernating/suspending when using DK-Power" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460303
<sebner> ScottK: laney is on it
<ScottK> Excellent.
<porthose> is it to late to request a sync that is bug fix only changes, and also corrects FTBFS?
<ScottK> porthose: Nope
<iulian> porthose: No.
<porthose> Ok ty :)
<iulian> sebner: Please use requestsync instead of doing it manually (webgen0.4).
<sebner> iulian: ah ok, I didn't know if syncs are still appropriate as they need longer to process than direct uploads
 * porthose builds it one more time before submitting bug :)
<ScottK> sebner: I'd prefer you just ask for a sync.  We'll get them in, one way or another.
<iulian> ScottK: Please reject webgen0.4 from unapproved.
<sebner> heh, understood
<ScottK> Rejecting webgen
<ScottK> It's gone
<iulian> porthose, sebner:  When done, please tell me the bug#.
<porthose> iulian, will do :)
<ScottK> iulian: On Bug #419363, the package has neither reverse build depends nor rdepends, so I'm OK with either updating or removing.  Please have a look and see what you think.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419363 in jhbuild "jhbuild is heavily outdated, update it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419363
<ScottK> Bug #459535 is another one we definitely want, if some MOTU could review/upload.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 459535 in checkgmail "Can't login: need new SVN snapshot" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459535
<sebner> iulian: bug #460567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460567 in webgen0.4 "Sync webgen0.4 0.4.7-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460567
 * ScottK is off again for a while.
<jreinhardt> Hi everyone. When I tried to install epiphany-extensions-more I was bitten by bug #452845. I pulled the branch (the package is in bzr) and in the control file the dependencies are:
<jreinhardt> epiphany-extensions (>= ${gnome:Version}),
<jreinhardt> epiphany-extensions (<< ${gnome:NextVersion}),
<jreinhardt> What is going wrong here?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452845 in epiphany-extensions-more "epiphany-extensions-more is not up to date in Karmic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452845
<porthose> iulian, bug#460568
<jreinhardt> I will try to provide a fix, if someone can help me with it
<sebner> iulian: I uploaded (tested it myself of course) checkgmail (what Scott propsed)
<iulian> ScottK: Honestly, I don't know what to say.  As far as I can see, Frederic wants it to be removed from the archive.
<iulian> Maybe lool can enlighten us a bit about jhbuild?
<ScottK> iulian: Did you review checkgmail?
<iulian> ScottK: No, was looking at jhbuild.  It seems that sebner has just uploaded it.
<ScottK> OK.
<sebner> ScottK: I tested it myself. fixes the issue, nothing else changed. So risk to break anything
<sebner> *no risk
<ScottK> sebner: OK.  I'll ack it based on that.
<ScottK> iulian: I'm acking checkgmail.  No need to look at it
<iulian> ScottK: OK.
<ScottK> sebner: Accepted.  Please keep an eye on it to make sure it builds and no new bugs come in
<av`> jreinhardt, it's broken on Debian as well
<av`> jreinhardt, we actually need a new upstream release since control says epiphany-extensions (>= ${gnome:Version})
<sebner> ScottK: aye aye
 * ScottK is off again for a while.
<av`> jreinhardt, so we should need >= 2.27 since we have 2.26 now
<hedkandi> hello
<hedkandi> I think I'd like to put my little application onto the ubuntu repos
<maco> alright, quieter channel and focused on packaging
<hedkandi> so I believe I need two sponsors
<maco> so what you want to look at is REVU
<maco> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<hedkandi> yes but looking at this, the vast majority of the packages are ignored
<hedkandi> I need to arrange for someone to say they'll evaluate it.
<maco> you can ask in here once you upload it
<iulian> porthose, sebner:  Ack'd.
<sebner> iulian: I'm wondering about but #460568 , I'd review it but it would be universe after the sync. So sync and then poke and archive admin or do you propose anything else?
<sebner> iulian: thx
<maco> many of those packages arent really ignored...so much as some sponsors said "hey, you did x, y, and z wrong. can you fix that?" and are waiting for the uploader to do so
<porthose> iulian, ty working on another :)
<hedkandi> well okay I'll give it a go.
<hedkandi> What choice of licences do I have?
<maco> hedkandi: did you write the program?
<hedkandi> y
<maco> well anything that fits the dfsg can go into universe, othewise it goes in multiverse
<maco> !dfsg
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about dfsg
<maco> boo!
<maco> fine, google the dfsg. debian has a list of "free" licenses
<iulian> sebner: I don't know what you mean.
<hedkandi> ok
<maco> gpl, mit, bsd, artistic...those are all free, i know that
<sebner> iulian: it's currently in multiverse but after that sync it should be in universe
<sebner> iulian: I'm wondering if that would cause any problems (I've seen some in past)
<iulian> sebner: webgen0.4 is currently in universe.
<hedkandi> ah yes gpl bsd and artistic
<maco> there are many more but off the top of my head i can think of those
<sebner> iulian: ah I'm sorry. I was talking about bug #460568  (damn bot)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460568 in weirdx "Sync weirdx 1.0.32-4 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460568
<iulian> sebner: It shouldn't cause any problems.
<sebner> iulian: fine then. thx
<iulian> sebner: I think the archive admin has an option to move it to universe.
<iulian> Not sure though.
<jreinhardt> av`, so the version of epiphany-extensions-more has to be bumped to match the version of epiphany extensions? And I can do nothing except bugging upstream about it?
<hedkandi> my idea of a licence is like the gpl except it prevents distribution of modified versions
<sebner> iulian: yeah they can move stuff but I was asking beforehand to avoid any trouble
<av`> jreinhardt, actually upstream does not even use versioning
<zooko> That would not be regarded as dfsg-free, nor osi-conformant.
<av`> jreinhardt, did you see the homepage? all extensions are there and listed under author's name
<av`> jreinhardt, but no versioning is specified
<dabaR> hedkandi: why?
<jreinhardt> av`, so just bumping the package version with a changelog entry would suffice?
<av`> jreinhardt, well, we can't bump upstream versioning without introducing an effective new upstream release
<av`> jreinhardt, I need to see what to do, cause having a new upstream release accepted now is a bit hard
<sebner> iulian: bahbahabhaha! I'm just testbuilding and you are acking
<jreinhardt> ok, thank you for your help
<av`> np, I gonna let you know, stay tuned here
<sebner> iulian: better for sync though. So no additional -release ack is needed
<hedkandi> dabaR: well two reasons really
<hedkandi> firstly, I don't want other people introducing bugs and sending them off around the net
<hedkandi> I want to be in charge of the software, and if I don't like what other people have done to it,
<hedkandi> then it doesn't go anywhere
<hedkandi> is basically my feeling
<dabaR> hedkandi: what is the software? do you have a project web site?
<hedkandi> my software is a little text-editor for rss feeds. It will soon have a website
<maco> hedkandi: then you want a non-free license and to put it in multiverse
<iulian> sebner: Actually all packages require an ack from a -release member in order to be accepted.
<hedkandi> okay maco.
<sebner> iulian: yeah, that's why I said that it's better if you work on syncs
<maco> hedkandi: in that case, you can write a list of "you can: " and "you cannot: " for your license...
<hedkandi> how exciting
<hedkandi> however i have a general impression that the motu's don't care a sausage about multiverse software
<iulian> sebner: I'm still not getting it. :)
<hedkandi> and  I want to get it out there.
<maco> i maintain a package in multiverse....but im not a motu yet
<sebner> iulian: nvm, let's fix the archive :D
<maco> you can maintain your own package and just ask for a sponsor when it needs an upload
<sebner> maco: ubuntu usually doesn't have a maintainer. Debian is your choice
<dabaR> hedkandi: look, everyone faces these challenges when they write software, and the licences were created by people who have years of experience with OS development.
<maco> sebner: yeah i know but im the only one touching it in either debian or ubuntu :P
<maco> its not exactly "motu dont care" so much as "motu are stretched thin" since there are thousands of packages and not even multiple-hundreds of motu
<maco> sebner: so effectively.....
<dabaR> hedkandi: the way you prevent what you are afraid of is by distributing software yourself.
<sebner> maco: then work on getting the DM ;)
<dabaR> If people want to put in patches to it, they send them to you, and you either approve or don't approve.
<dabaR> If they don't like it, they fork.
<hedkandi> no they can't fork
<dabaR> But your version can still be downloaded from your server, and it is the one you control.
<hedkandi> yes, but I don't think anyone will find my package unless it's in the multiverse
<hedkandi> so I think my best bet is to release an early version under gpl
<maco> sebner: at the moment im trying to get it back *in* to debian. it was orphaned and removed. then i picked it up, and now debian legal changed their minds about whether the license is ok (doh!) and waiting on the author to repeat, again, that "Yes, seriously, distribution is perfectly fine!"
<hedkandi> and get it in the universe
<dabaR> hedkandi: believe me, there is a good reason why the GPL is the most used license.
<sebner> maco: I can't really say that I like upstreams that use such licenses anyways ..
<hedkandi> such as?
<hedkandi> it says that stuff in ubuntu main comes with "technical support" haha
<hedkandi> like how do you get technical support then?
<dabaR> hedkandi: so users of your software don't have to wait for you to fix bugs, etc.
<maco> sebner:he said the next release will likely be bsd, so i guess at worst, i wait til january and resubmit my "intention to adopt" or whatever its called
<dabaR> hedkandi: you could read about licensing a little bit, you don't seem to know the basics.
<Laney> mmm WNPP
<sebner> macd: nice
<sebner> Laney: bugfixing ftw!
<hedkandi> righto
<Laney> we should do a whole release under finalfreeze
<hedkandi> well anyway I'm off to work some more on my application. It should be up on revu in a week,
<hedkandi> and we'll take it from there.
<hedkandi> The first version can go under gpl I think
<dabaR> hedkandi: OK, have a good time.
<Laney> oj
<hedkandi> yeah cheers see you soon!
<tag_> I can't seem to get fglrx to work in karmic
<tag_> And it deems my system inoperable outside of booting in recovery mode
<iulian> tag_: Please join #ubuntu+1 for Karmic questions.
<porthose> iulian, ping bug #460617
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460617 in testng "Sync testng 5.10+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460617
<iulian> porthose: Looking.
<Bodsda> porthose: Hi. I applied for mentorship a wee while back. I got the confirmation email but was just wondering if I am any closer to getting a mentor?
<porthose> Bodsda, I have sent your app out to several MOTU's but haven't gotten a response yet.  Most MOTU's are busy working on packages that FTBFS right now so please be patient :)
<Bodsda> porthose: sure no worries. Was just after an update. Thanks for all your help :)
<porthose> np, :)
<ScottK> iulian: Got anything that needs accepting?
<iulian> ScottK: Not yet.  Currently looking at bug #460617.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460617 in testng "Sync testng 5.10+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460617
<ScottK> OK
<Bodsda> anyone got any leg work they need doing that is fairly simple (new guy here)
<ScottK> Bodsda: There's no need to wait for a formal mentor to be assigned.  You can dive right in and ask questions here.
<Bodsda> ScottK: ^^ :)
<ScottK> Nothing comes to mind.
<ScottK> Sorry.
<ScottK> We're sort of in crunch mode for the final karmic uploads.
<Bodsda> ScottK: ok, can you suggest a good place to get started?
<Bodsda> yeah, I figured as much
<ScottK> Generally bugfixing.  Look for bugs tagged bitesize.
<Bodsda> ScottK: on lp under ubuntu?
<ScottK> Yes
<Bodsda> ScottK: so are bitesize bugs generally less difficult/important to fix?
<ScottK> Less difficult
<Bodsda> ok, cool
<Bodsda> ScottK: ok, probably a stupid question but... how do i find the bitesize bugs?
<ScottK> It's a tag, so you need to search by tag.   I don't recall exactly how to do that.
<iulian> Bodsda: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<Bodsda> ScottK: iulian: thanks guys :)
<Bodsda> Sorry for all the questions but, what should I be doing with the bugs? Fixing, testing, confirming?
<porthose> ScottK, releaseforge source package has been removed in debian, and it currently FTBFS in karmic, should I file a bug requesting removal?
<iulian> porthose: Ack'd.  We certainly don't want packages which fail to build.
<ScottK> porthose: Why was it removed?
<porthose> ScottK, not sure I'll have to dig a little more :)
<ScottK> Bodsda: Any of the above.  Currently we're only taking fixes for important bugs, so fixing is less urgent except for important bugs.
<iulian> porthose, ScottK: RoM; low popcon, dead upstream
<ScottK> porthose: Where's the build failure log?
<Bodsda> ScottK: ok, I will probably stick to confirming bugs as I have no idea what I am doing :) If I can reproduce the problem then I guess it can be confirmed?
<ScottK> Bodsda: Yes.  You might also join #ubuntu-bugs too then
<Bodsda> ok, sweet - thanks ScottK
<ScottK> It may be #ubuntu-bug though?
 * ScottK doesn't actually remember
<maco> plural
<Bodsda> -bugs works
<iulian> Yea, that's the channel name.
<porthose> ScottK, let me build it on Karmic to make sure, but it is listed on http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<ScottK> porthose: Let me have a look there.
<dtchen> yanno, it's a fine idea to read debian/control. I spent about an hour "fixing" psyco for Python 2.6 before I realised that it doesn't even matter that it isn't available for amd64.
<ScottK> porthose: That one looks not so hard to fix.  I suspect it's installing to pyshared now.
<porthose> ScottK, Ok I'll see if I can fix it thx :)
 * iulian is heading to bed.
 * ScottK looks around for nhandler
<ScottK> Laney: Any word on Gnome-Do?
<Laney> waiting for upstream
<Laney> oh they just did it
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<Laney> i'll sponsor in a minute
<ScottK> Excellent.  Ping me when it's up.
<ScottK> Laney: Upstream supports the patch?
<Laney> Yes, they just committed it (which was what I was waiting for)
<ScottK> Excellent.
<av`> ScottK, a new azureus release is out which fixes several bugs and crashes, we want it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/460620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460620 in transmission "Transmission Version 1.76 is Available" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK> av`: It depends on how much else it brings.  If it's purely bug fixes, maybe.
<av`> ScottK, the changelog is attached to the bug, give it a look
<ScottK> av`: I'd prefer someone qualified look at the actual diff.  Maybe jdong.
<av`> ScottK, ok, let me know
<sebner> ScottK: is there anything small and easy left that needs review/sponsoring? If not I'd go off  for today
<ScottK> sebner: Have a look at the sponsors list yourself to see if you see anything.  I thought it was pretty well picked over, but I could be wrong.
<sebner> ScottK: I'm wondering if we can close bug #455216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455216 in scim-tegaki "sync scim-tegaki 0.1-2 from debian testing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455216
<ScottK> sebner: You might make a recommendation about 419363
<sebner> bug #419363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419363 in jhbuild "jhbuild is heavily outdated, update it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419363
<ScottK> sebner: Give me a motu ack on scim-tegaki and a ping back and I'm OK with it as long as debian/changelog actually documents all the changes.
<sebner> ScottK: the problem there is that's not really worth the work imho. No real fixes
<Laney> don't be afraid to defer things to lucid
<ScottK> sebner: OK.  Your call.
<ScottK> I'm fine with waiting.
<ScottK> Laney: Been doing that all day.
<sebner> really not worth it.
<Laney> good chap
<sebner> ScottK: regarding jhbuild. Unless somebody steps up for the hard work + keep an eye on it I'm for removals
<sebner> *-s
<Laney> Anyone took a run through the rcbugs list?
<ScottK> Laney: How'd Gnome Do coming?
<Laney> ScottK: Somewhere in the middle of soyuz
<Laney> no wait, it just came out of the other side
<Laney> go nuts
<ScottK> phpmyadmin had a security upload in Debian yesterday.  Looking at that for a sync would be good.
<ScottK> sebner: Would you edit that bug into a removal bug please?
<sebner> ScottK: Last action for today is a removal *hehe* , sure .. give me a minute
<ScottK> Laney: debdiff the current gnome-do package and yours and then answer me how I'm supposed to review that?
<Laney> ScottK: gnome-do-plugins
<ScottK> Ah
<sebner> ScottK: At this time of the cycle do you need to give and ACK or am I fine by myself?
<ScottK> That would explain the size of the diff
<Laney> :)
<ScottK> sebner: I should ack it.
<ScottK> Laney: Accepted.  Thanks.  Any chance you could look at phpmyadmin?
<sebner> ScottK: go ahead than
<sebner> *then
<ScottK> THanks.
<sebner> np
 * sebner is wondering when LP will get a "delete comment" function btw
<sebner> ScottK: do we continue our fixing is fun session tomorrow? How long can we haXX0r stuff?
<ScottK> sebner: I think so.  When did I say the deadline was?  I think It's Tuesday at noon UTC.
<sebner> kk thx
<Laney> ScottK: Alright, then I want to scan rcbugs
<ScottK> Laney: Thanks.
<sebner> Unfortunately I'll only have time to help out again in the evening as I will travel to my University city half of the day :\
 * sebner wishes a good night
<Laney> night sebner
<ScottK> Good night sebner.
<zooko> By the way folks, I'm investigating a segfault in pycryptopp which I'm pretty sure doesn't effect the build of pycryptopp that is currently in Karmic.
<zooko> However I haven't quite isolated it yet so I'm still working on it in case it does turn out to be relevant for Karmic.
<ScottK> zooko: If needed we can fix it as a stable release update
<zooko> Okay.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: as you commented bug #371187 is it possible to upload debdiff as SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371187 in drupal6 "clean URL not enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371187
<ScottK> james_w`: Bug #330573 has some indication you were working on it in the bug.  Do you plan anything for Karmic yet?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330573 in madfuload "madfuload doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330573
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't think it qualfies for SRU.
<ScottK> People who want to enable it can.
<ari-tczew> I always guess that we should delivery packages for satisfy the maximum consumers
<Laney> ScottK: looks like the phpmyadmin fix is already in
<ScottK> Laney: Cool.  Thanks for checking
<micahg> ScottK: anything else needed before release?
<ScottK> Any FTBFS fixes are welcome
<ScottK> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<micahg> wow
<micahg> ScottK: is this bug worth pushing before release? bug 460466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460466 in prism "prism package seems to be not properly cleaned up in clean: target" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460466
<ScottK> micahg: No.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> ScottK: what's the difference between that FTBFS page and this one: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/karmic.html
<ScottK> The one I gave you is from a recent rebuild test.
<micahg> ok
<ScottK> Yours is stuff that failed in the actual archive
<lool> iulian: Didn't touch jhbuild in a long time, but there finally was a real upstream release which I shall package one of these days; I don't think this is going to happen in the next two weeks though
<micahg> ScottK: is it worth trying to get Seamonkey 2 into karmic?  We have the same version hardy had
<micahg> oh, nevermind that
<micahg> not the same version
<Laney> how can I test builds on armel?
<Laney> (without buying hardware myself)
<c_korn> I get a lot uf such errors: "E: astromenace-data: package-contains-ancient-file usr/share/games/astromenace/DATA_BASE/CREDITS/codeblocks.tga 1979-12-31" how can I change the timestamp of all those files ?
<c_korn> s/uf/of/
<c_korn> has anyone an idea ?
<azeem> c_korn: you can touch it if you want
<azeem> however, it's probably the upstream tarball which is broken
<c_korn> azeem: yeah the upstream "tarball" was a zip file actually
<funkyHat> Laney: !
<Laney> hi there
<Laney> get back ok>
<funkyHat> Yep :) missed the train I wanted, but I regularly do that
<c_korn> azeem: this is sufficient? find debian/astromenace-data/usr/share/games/ -type f -exec touch {} \;
<funkyHat> I'm just figuring out what I'm supposed to do with this key thingy now :D
<Laney> ha
<azeem> I guess, yes
<Laney> gpg --import <file I sent>
<Laney> (I think...)
<c_korn> azeem: this fixed it. thanks
<funkyHat> Laney: you sent me the same mail twice?
<funkyHat> urg stupid FireGPG brokenness
<jdong> ugh firegpg.
 * funkyHat shakes fist at Google
<funkyHat> ugh jdong
<jdong> :)
<Laney> I used caff to do it, it sends the sigs to each UID
<jdong> Firefox is the last thing I'd want handling my GnuPG secrets.
 * funkyHat is syncing his gmail so he can just use mutt
<funkyHat> offlineimap -.-
<funkyHat> I need better emails!
<Laney> I just use mutt with gmail's imap directly
<funkyHat> I had a reason for not doing that, I think I found it awkward or something, or I wanted mailboxes other than gmails?
<funkyHat> offlineimap is just as awkward though
<Laney> that works too
<Laney> grr
<Laney> ScottK: How do you feel about an upload that I can't be sure works? (fix an FTBFS on sparc/armel)
<ScottK> Laney: If you're confident it doesn't introduce regression risk, sure.
<Laney> it at least builds here on amd64
<Laney> (and works)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Upload it and I'll review it later.
 * ScottK is about to have dinner.
<Laney> alright
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> I don't like this... maybe I should get one of those special PPAs
<Laney> as far as I can tell it's right :(
<Laney> ScottK: Uploaded (haskell-hsh)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-25
<micahg> on a bzr merge where changes were made to the source and should be a patch instead, what's the best procedure?  Do I need to have the merge proposer fix it or can I just convert it to a patch and use it that way with the appropriate attribution in the changelog?
<ScottK> lfaraone: At UDS, so no way I can concentrate on it enought to have a useful opinion.
<micahg> hi ScottK, is there any gathering of community people this evening?
<ScottK> micahg: Several of us are in the bar near the check in.
<micahg> ScottK: cool
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> a package contains 3 kernel modules,  one of them can only be compiled for x86 archs, how can I handle that in the DKMS conf file ?
<AnAnt> I read in the dkms manpage about BUILD_EXCLUSIVE_ARCH, but that seems to be a global config variable not a per-module configuration.
<_ruben> dkms tends to be pretty limited in certain areas, wouldn't surprise me if the only "solution" would be to split it into 2 dkms packages
<geser> micahg: let the merge proposer fix it as he probably wants to become a developer in the future so should know how to merge/modify packages correctly
<hyperair> anyone from motu-sru around?
<stgraber>  /win 39
<stgraber> oops
<\sh> hmmm...will there be a video stream or audio stream from keynot @UDS-N?
<xteejx> When merging, do we have to set us as the maintainer in d/control?
<xteejx> i.e. ubuntu devs
<Laney> yes
<xteejx> Laney: Thanks :)
<micahg> xteejx: use the update-maintainer script
<xteejx> Why does a debian-changes file keep being created, I'm not editing the source, just stuff in debian/
<xteejx> control and control.in
<xteejx> It says about the changes debian made, but why? They're already in the package, can I safely remove
<xteejx> that from the package and debdiff and use that on theLP merge report?
<micahg> xteejx: what is in the changes file?
<xteejx> micahg: My changelog entry, dep3 markers and every single change from the old to new debian version
<xteejx> base>debian even
<micahg> xteejx: how did you create the merge?
<xteejx> grab-merge, changed control and control.in, edited changelog, debuild -S
<micahg> xteejx: which package?
<xteejx> anjuta-extras
<xteejx> I can't see any reason why dpkg should be creating it :S
<nicko> Hi all, I maintain a new package in debian (unstable) and would like to see it in Ubuntu, what do I need to do to have it sync-ed?
<geser> nicko: it should get auto-synced once the archive admins are all back from UDS and start also syncing new packages (new = not yet in the Ubuntu archive)
<shadeslayer> nicko: alternatively use requestsync script
<geser> shadeslayer: not needed at this stage of development (unless you need it synced now)
<shadeslayer> geser: ah.. ok ...
<nicko> ok thanks, so the process is automatic (as long as there is no build problem on Ubuntu I guess), perfect!
<shadeslayer> geser: are you at UDS?
<geser> shadeslayer: no
<shadeslayer> :(
<geser> nicko: yes, at least till Debian Import Freeze which is still several weeks away
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<superm1> AnAnt, pong
<AnAnt> superm1: got my email ?
<AnAnt> superm1: ??
<xteejx> bug 666334, have I done this correctly?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 666334 in xdotool (Ubuntu) "please sync xdotool 1:2.20100701.2961-3 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666334
<tumbleweed> xteejx: looks good, it's in the sponsor queue. Btw you can use "requestsync" to file these bugs
<xteejx> tumbleweed: Oh :) Does that do all that stuff automagically?
<tumbleweed> xteejx: happens when you subscribe sponsors. the URL is in the topic
<xteejx> Ahhh, and I'm last lol
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> Not sure on sync/merge for bcfg2, I can only see 3 changes in the ubuntu patch that arent in Deb
<xteejx> "add no-databse DB backend", "add dpatch support", and "backport support for auto version number from 1.0"
<tumbleweed> xteejx: if there are any changes, and they actually matter, we keep them. (Useless changes can be dropped). Forward them upstream so that we can eventually sync again.
<xteejx> No prob, just gonna look through d/patches
<ari-tczew> geser: IIRC you're familiar with update-maintainer. could you take a look on bug 666504 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 666504 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "update-maintainer can't update if XSBC-Original- has got @ubuntu.com" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666504
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you run update-maintainer with -v?
<ari-tczew> geser: update-maintainer: error: no such option: -v
<ari-tczew> s/geser/bdrung
<bdrung> hm, ok.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I attached d/control to bug, you can try it locally
<bdrung> i will once i have time for it
<geser> ari-tczew: do you know where this XSBC-O-M comes from?
<ari-tczew> geser: debian?
<bdrung> geser: from update-maintainer probably
<geser> bdrung: the questions is why is then Maintainer not @ubuntu.com
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-26
<kklimonda_>          /b 29
<AnAnt> Hello, how can I compile a plymouth plugin ?
<AnAnt> I mean what are the flags I should give to gcc to get a proper .so file for plymouth plugin ? I do know what libs to link against
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<\sh> siretart: ping...can you give me admin rights on launchpad.net/fai I need to change some things of the text on behalf of Thomas L. :)
<\sh> siretart: bbl...going to the hospital now....
<siretart> \sh: oh, I hope you are OK
<siretart> \sh: aren't you already admin?
<gaspa> anyone knows if pysupport is fixed? (about 2.7 ftb) ScottK, geser?
<tumbleweed> gaspa: not yet https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu/natty/python-central/py27/+merge/39165
<gaspa> tumbleweed: ok, thanks
<tumbleweed> err, wrong one: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu/natty/python-support/py27/+merge/38965\
<gaspa> tumbleweed: got it, thanks.
<\sh> siretart: for the fai group I'm admin..but not for the project
<\sh> siretart: and yes...I was with my son at the hospital :)
<superm1> AnAnt, yes?
<AnAnt> superm1: I sent you an email two days
<AnAnt> ago
<superm1> i know, i'm at UDS, i haven't responded to lots of mail
<AnAnt> can you respond to it ?
<AnAnt> superm1: ok, I'll tell you in private chat
<siretart> \sh: I've just made the fai group admin of the project
<\sh> siretart: thx
<siretart> \sh: you're welcome
<ari-tczew> how can I fix this FTBFS? http://paste.ubuntu.com/520229/  maybe debfx can you?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: apiextractor?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yes
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: this one is syncable
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: that package (and the other pyside packages) are very tighly bound to qt
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I'd prod odyx and ask him to look at it them (as a whole)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok, so I'm leaving this one
<debfx> ari-tczew: not sure, depends on why dpkg-gensymbols fails
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: just asked OdyX. He intends to request syncs when the packages are at a syncable point
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> I compile a shared library using: gcc -shared $(LIBS) -o name.so name.o
<AnAnt> but that fails on amd64, giving this error: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<Bachstelze> AnAnt: compile with -fPIC :)
<AnAnt> Bachstelze: for all archs ?
<Bachstelze> it should only be needed on amd64
<Bachstelze> but IIRC you can do it also on i386, it doesn't hurt
<AnAnt> Bachstelze: thanks
<AnAnt> so, when did UDS start ?
<StevenK> Yesterday
<AnAnt> Bachstelze: -fPIC is a CFLAG or LDFLAG or both ?
<Bachstelze> AnAnt: CFLAG, but you could have tried for yourself ;)
<AnAnt> Bachstelze: well, I don't have a 64-bit machine, and the turnaround time (upload to PPA, wait for build, get email that it failed) is long
<genupulas> Hello I am rajasekhar
<genupulas> can any one tell me  how can i write the  package program code for ubuntu using C
<genupulas> i am asking is there any online tutorial
<ari-tczew> persia: ping
<Laney> ari-tczew: He's at UDS, and please try to avoid contentless pings as someone else may be able to answer
<ari-tczew> Laney: ok, but I started asking on #ubuntu-devel
<crimsun> ari-tczew: and I answered.
<Laney> good, but still something to note
<ari-tczew> crimsun: I used $ desktop-file-validate debian/cecilia.desktop and there is no any warnings.
<ari-tczew> but how can I specify MimeType?
<Laney> I usually look at the specification to find out what I can do
<Laney> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html#mime-types
<ari-tczew> is it correct? MimeType=application/cecilia;  ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-27
<psusi> is there a way to have apt-get force version to a specific distro for all packages?  I seem to have accidentally gotten a number of natty package versions installed under maverick and need to downgrade them back to the maverick versions
<ari-tczew> psusi: rmadison
<crimsun> psusi: yes, apt_preferences(5); see apt-pinning
<psusi> ari-tczew, don't see what that has to do with my situation
<psusi> crimsun, the thing is, I added natty as a source, and set my preferences file to default to maverick to prevent any natty packages from being installed without an explicit -t natty.. but while apt obeyed, it seems the gui update manager did not
<psusi> and now I have a number of packages installed from natty.... I can use synaptic to force version on each of them back to maverick, but there are a lot so that will take a long time doing one at a time
<psusi> hoping I can do them all at once from the command line
<crimsun> ari-tczew: if that's cecilia is valid, then yes
<ari-tczew> crimsun: how can I check whether cecilia is valid? do you mean run command from /usr/bin?
<crimsun> psusi: are you using pin priorities?  Use something > 1000 for maverick.
<crimsun> ari-tczew: no, I assumed you knew what mimetype to use.
<psusi> crimsun, I set Apt::Default-Release: to maverick then added the natty repos to sources... that seemed to prevent update to natty packages when I ran apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, but then I started getting updates from the update-manager and noticed today I have natty versions of a bunch of packages installed
<paissad_> guys, i'm confused about some postrm, postinst, prerm ... actually i have this message "Warning: pms-linux is NOT running !" which is in the /etc/init.d/pms-linux script  ( and i got the message during the run of -> apt-get remove pms-linux)
<paissad_> does this mean that 'apt-get' try to stop init.d scripts before removing packages ?
<paissad_> but the thing that bother me the most is that when i run "apt-get install pms-linux" ... i have "Warning: pms-linux is already running !"
<paissad_> that looks like "apt-get" tried to start twice the init.d script !
<paissad_> i don't understand the reason why it try twice !
<paissad_> it tries*
<paissad_> nobody knows ?
<crimsun> paissad_: you should read the contents of those maintainer scripts to see how invoke-rc.d is used
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: are you merging/will you merge the "courier" package?
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: I am making attempts of fixing an FTBFS in it
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: But you are free to take it
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: do you have a build log of the FTBFS?
<bilalakhtar> I tried over 10 builds with it
<bilalakhtar> yes, just a sec
<BlackZ> thanks
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: Wait a sec, my latest build on a PPA succeeded and I didn't even notice that :) I am merging it
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: Do you want to, or should I go ahead
<bilalakhtar> ?
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: go ahead with the merge then ;)
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: uploaded
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: thanks
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you have any bluetooth device to use in Ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: Yes, but my bluetooth often isn't working (suspend related, I seem to recall there being a bug, but can't remember)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: sad to hear that. I'd like to ask you about test bluez 4.70 from Debian unstable on natty.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I can look
<ari-tczew> thanks
<hrw> hi
<geser> Hi
<geser> hrw: btw the vim merge is almost done, just waiting on main sponsors coming back from UDS
<hrw> geser: cool
<ari-tczew> lucas: how often does your merge script is updating?
<lucas> ari-tczew: every few hours
<ari-tczew> lucas: it seems to not updating about 14 hours
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: had a quick play with it, seems fine. But haven't reviewed the diffs and that package has been forked for a while...
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I'll look into diffs tomorrow.
<lucas> ari-tczew: the ubuntu-natty sources/packages info is updated at: (UTC times)
<lucas> 30 2,14 * * * $UAR ubuntu-natty
<lucas> so it's due to be updated in <1h
<ari-tczew> lucas: so, something is wrong. package python-scipy has been merged 14 hours ago and it exist on the list. the same thing with denemo.
<lucas> 0.7.2-2ubuntu1 is the merged version?
<TeTeT> ScottK: as discussed at breakfast I added a bug to lucid-backports, see bug 667285. If anything is missing let me know
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 667285 in lucid-backports "Please backport ibm-3270 from maverick/natty to 10.04 LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/667285
<lucas> (for python-scipy)
<ari-tczew> lucas: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-scipy/0.7.2+dfsg1-1ubuntu1
<lucas> ari-tczew: it will be updated during the next UDD data update
<lucas> ari-tczew: apparently it wasn't there yet during the previous mirror sync
<lucas> ari-tczew: I'm not sure how often mirror syncs happen
<ari-tczew> lucas: where is next UDD data update?
<lucas> ari-tczew: (mirror sycs to UDD)
<lucas> 30 2,14 * * * $UAR ubuntu-natty
<psusi> boy this is really odd... I'm seeing a binary package with two different source packages... there is tads, and there is frobtads... both claim to build the binary packages tads3-dev and tads3-common, and tads2-dev... what gives?  did someone screw up and repackage something that was already packaged?
<geser> psusi: it happens sometime when a source package got renamed that we have both: the old and the new one
<Laney> both appear to be in debian
<geser> psusi: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/f/frobtads/current/changelog
<psusi> yea, debian appears to have both... but they both output some of the same binary packages, which isn't allowed right?  so the old one should be dropped?
<psusi> it seems that ubuntu does not have frobtads
<geser> it only gives problems, when you need to upload the old package
<geser> check if the other binaries from tads are r(build)depends somewhere
<psusi> why?
<geser> and asking the Debian maintainer of both packages could be a good idea too
<psusi> yea, I sent him an email
<psusi> bug we have a bug asking for it to be updated to a new upstream release... it seems that was done, but the name changed, causing all this mess so now I'm not sure what to do with the bug, heh...
<geser> if you drop tads, then the binaries tads2, tads3 and tads3-doc are deleted too and I don't see them in frobtads
<geser> (but I didn't check if something provides them)
<geser> and it would be a bad idea to remove something that is needed as a (build-)dependency
<psusi> hrm... how would you check for that?
<geser> apt-cache rdepends tads2
<geser> and ubuntu-dev-tools has a script for rbuilddepends
<psusi> doesn't that only check the packages I have installed on my system?
<geser> no
<psusi> how does it do that then?  don't you have to have the package to get the depend info from the control file?  or is it listed in the repository Packages.gz?
<micahg> geser: does the checkbuilddepends script work?  I haven't been able to get anything from it
<benste> hi, what was the name of the meta package includin dbuild ... for all these tasks - e.g. got a deb from google code, and wanted to add it into my own PPA - changed version to ...ubuntu1 and now having the files only, but need the source.changes
<benste> is $ sudo apt-get install build-essential fakeroot dpkg-dev enought ?
<psusi> hrm... I wonder why the frobstads package has not been synced to ubuntu?
<geser> micahg: I use an other one and not the one from u-d-t. And the one I use works so far
<micahg> psusi: I don't see that on pqda
<micahg> *pqdo
<psusi> micahg: eh?
<micahg> psusi: I don't see that in Debian
<ajmitch> micahg: frobtads, not frobstads
<micahg> ajmitch: ah
<ajmitch> I was confused as well :)
<psusi> hehe
<ajmitch> it probably wasn't synced because it's in non-free
<geser> ajmitch: is syncing new packages already done?
<psusi> ajmitch: why does that matter?
<ajmitch> geser: it's been in debian for over a year now
<micahg> geser: I think the issue is that it should have been sync'd last cycle
<ajmitch> psusi: I don't believe that automatic syncing is done for contrib/non-free
<ajmitch> an archive admin can clarify it
<psusi> so you need to explicitly request it eh?
<ajmitch> I think so
<psusi> ok... we'll see if the dd drops the old source package then I can request syncs to drop the old and sync the new to ubuntu
<ElementGreen> I have question concerning a PPA package version which has never been in Debian or Ubuntu.  I tried using libinstpatch-1.0.0-0~maverick1~ppa1 but this fails to satisfy >= 1.0.0 for some reason, which another package in my PPA is dependent on.  Help appreciated!
<Laney> make it -0ubuntu1 instead of -0
<ElementGreen> Ok.  So even though its not yet officially part of Ubuntu, that is the way to go?
<Laney> it's the -0~ which makes it less than 1.0.0
<Laney> you can compare with dpkg --compare-versions a ge b && echo yes
<Laney> which tests if a >= b according to dpkg
<ElementGreen> Ok.  Thanks!
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i don't like the '-u' parameter of syncpackage. my brain associates -u with --upload
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, in fact I have a fix for that (it broke fakesync for ack-sync), so I need to do a commit anyway
<tumbleweed> bdrung: suggestions?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: --dont-sign
<tumbleweed> ok, so no short option, that's fine
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have no better idea
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do we want that: "env = os.environ"?
<tumbleweed> If env is not None, it must be a mapping that defines the environment variables for the new process; these are used instead of inheriting the current processâ environment, which is the default behavior.
<tumbleweed> if we want to extend the environment, we start with the current one
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we don't do that for dch
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I do that so that we generate Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed
<tumbleweed> it's only really needed for things calling dpkg-genchangelogs
<tumbleweed> (err, the above when running on Debian, which is what I do)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: setting env['DEB_VENDOR'] = 'Ubuntu' is a good idea, but i don't know if it useful to pass all env settings
<tumbleweed> we also need things like PATH
<Laney> tumbleweed: seems we are NM buddies!
<Laney> ps. changing the interface of a tool like that might not be the best idea
<Laney> you don't know who/what relies on it
<tumbleweed> Laney: heh
<tumbleweed> which interface are we talking about?
<Laney> this -u thing
<ajmitch> flags for requestsync?
<tumbleweed> I only added that yesterday
<Laney> oh ok
<Laney> if it's not in a release then cool
<Laney> btw ack-sync has no manpage
<tumbleweed> oh, I see I have an AM assigned
<tumbleweed> Laney: so, taking bets who finishes first? :)
<Laney> whoever has the more sensible AM
<tumbleweed> yeah that's what I heared
<Laney> i.e. who asks only the appropriate questions
<Laney> and not the whole template
<bdrung> Laney: that's one reason why it's not in the binary package
<Laney> :)
<bdrung> you guys remind me to ping my AM
<bdrung> Laney: feel free to write one (or better integrate the functionality into sponsor-patch) ;)
<tumbleweed> now that it's not going ot offend archive-admins, I suppose a manpage is in order
<Laney> no i don't use such tools :P
 * Laney really hopes that LP functionality will actually happen
<Laney> upload-from-branch is sexy
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ack-sync doesn't upload changes files by default
<bdrung> it shouldn't offend archive-admins
<tumbleweed> bdrung: it used to
<bdrung> yes
<ajmitch> Laney: right, the whole build-from-branch stuff is nice, it does lose the trust path of the signed .changes file though
<tumbleweed> that's what caused 3.0 (git) to be nacked in debian
<Laney> depends if you trust your browser cookie as much as a gpg signature :P
<ajmitch> but it means less duplication of commiting changes to a branch, pushing & then still having to dput
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: though git revisions can also be signed
<tumbleweed> err actually it was reviewability of the distributability of branches, IIRC
<ajmitch> because of the non-DFSG-free stuff in branches?
<Laney> in the history
<ajmitch> yeah
<Laney> you can't review the entire history
<tumbleweed> becaus ftp-masters wouldn't be able to review the entire history of a branch
 * ajmitch remembers reading that one
<ajmitch> especially if you're merging in the upstream branches, rather than importing a tarball each time
<ajmitch> sure, you could rebase all the time, but that screws up history
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-28
<wgrant> ajmitch: Well, rebasing is less of a problem in git. They don't care much about history. But I'm not sure how it's going to work in the bzr world.
<wgrant> It should be OK for now, since we're not importing tarballs yet.
<ajmitch> wgrant: right, rebasing a public branch is something that just feels wrong
<ajmitch> though I know it's popular enough
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: I see you daily connecting and re-connecting, what's the matter?
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: changing location.
<bilalakhtar> hyperair: ohk
<hyperair> bilalakhtar: i put my notebook on suspend when moving between room to lecture theatre,  and from lt to lt
<hyperair> and so on
<bilalakhtar> okie
<hyperair> does anyone know where i can find written proof on ubuntu.com that ubuntu is freely redistributable?
<hyperair> we're planning to hold an installfest and need to convince higher-ups in the university that we're not doing anything illegal.
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/licensing
<hyperair> apparently that wasn't enough
 * hyperair will try to highlight specific phrases inside it
<ajmitch> like the "Must allow redistribution"?
<hyperair> yeah
<bilalakhtar> vish: Good morning!
<vish> bilalakhtar: nope.. going back to sleep..  ;)
<bilalakhtar> vish: ah, I would recommend you to sleep at a stretch, forget about mail
<bilalakhtar> quadrispro: Hello there! I have seen that from many days, you have marked a few merges as ' quadrispro on it'. Are you working on them>
<bilalakhtar> ?
<quadrispro> bilalakhtar, which merges are you interested in?
<bilalakhtar> quadrispro: pyx
<quadrispro> bilalakhtar, feel free to take it
<bilalakhtar> Thanks
<micahg> hi ari-tczew, do you mind if I merge conkeror?  you TIL
<ari-tczew> hi micahg, what is TIL?
<micahg> ari-tczew: Touched It Last
<ari-tczew> micahg: I don't see available merge from conkeror (or maybe experimental if you want), anyway feel free! :)
<micahg> ari-tczew: yep (it's in experimental), thanks
<nigelb> micahg: heh, give it a rest :p You're at UDS :D
<micahg> nigelb: it's for something at UDS :P
<nigelb> micahg: ah, finishing action items within a few hours? ;)
<micahg> nigelb: heh, this is more of a pre-action item :)
<nigelb> dang it, this must be a record.
<nigelb> finishing an action item before you even define it.
<andreserl> .win 3
<andreserl> pff
<lu_zero> hi
<micahg> ScottK: does this look ok? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/521495/
<ScottK> For the changelog entry use * No change backport for Maverick (LP: #nnnnnn) - the rest is good.
<ScottK> It won't auto close since it's in the wrong pocket, but it should still be documented.
<Laney> i thought that was generated by the script
<micahg> is bug 667803 good enough?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 667803 in maverick-backports "Please backport conkeror 0.9.3+git101015-1ubuntu1 to maverick" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/667803
 * micahg is about to attach a build log
<micahg> ScottK: so, I'll upload now then?
<Laney> no-change backports don't get uploaded
<micahg> Laney: this is for a test
<ScottK> Laney: This is a special case.
<Laney> ok
<ScottK> micahg: Needs a statement that it installs and runs.
<micahg> k, will test that now
<micahg> ScottK: ok, comment added
<ScottK> micahg: Approved.
<micahg> ScottK: k, will upload, thanks
<micahg> ScottK: looks like we're good, it's sitting in the queue
<simar> shadeslayer, hi
<Laney> does pull-debian-source work for anyone?
<Laney> I get "The source package xxx isn't available in Debian testing"
<sebner> Laney: yep
<sebner> Laney: oh, wait. I only tried sid
<Laney> I just did pull-debian-source chromium-bus
<Laney> bsu*
<sebner> Laney: nope, it's working
<Laney> weird
<sebner> Laney: but, Could Not Get http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?text=on&package=chromium-bus&s=unstable at /usr/bin/pull-debian-source line 84.
<Laney> bsu
<sebner> Laney: ah, yes working her
<sebner> e
<Laney> hmm
<ari-tczew> \sh: are you going to update all your TIL merges?
<Rhonda> lol
<\sh> ari-tczew: I would like too...but it looks like that I don't have the time for it...(i mean in the next 4 weeks or so)
<Rhonda> Earlier today you didn't now that acronym, now you are throwing it around like you always used it. ;)
<\sh> ari-tczew: you are free to take them (btw..most of the stuff FTBFS because of binutils-gold)
<ari-tczew> \sh: ok, if package from debian will build fine, I'll sync.
<ari-tczew> that's right, besides merges we have to do a lot fix FTBFS
<geser> ari-tczew: if you are out of merges, you can take my remaining ones
<\sh> ari-tczew: they won't :)
<Rhonda> It's still better to help Debian release squeeze. You are wasting effort on merges that you'll most likely have to redo once squeeze is released because there will be new versions uploaded after that.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: heh, you're perceptive. I prefer to use acronym instead 'merges where you are marked as a last uploader'.
<\sh> Rhonda: many bugs in the DBTS are about binutils-gold without patches...if we get the patches here...we need to push them to the DBTS
<Rhonda> Or could even become potential unneeded because the changes got obsolete because they got incorporated into Debian.
<\sh> honestly, during the last releases I don't care about TIL anymore, regarding my packages
<ari-tczew> lol, please calm down and stop encouraging me to "help release debian". I always forward patches - as policy says. I don't want beg maintainer for apply changes from Debian.
<sebner> Rhonda: I heard that estimated release is around xmas, as I know Debian it won't release before our FF so nvm :P
<ari-tczew> s/from Debian/from Ubuntu
<geser> sebner: xmas of which year? :)
 * geser runs
<Rhonda> You can make fun of it as much as you like, natty won't have much stuff to release with if squeeze doesn't get out.
<sebner> geser: hahahaha! you made my day
 * Rhonda slaps geser with the suse chameleon that I got at last week's conference
<geser> Rhonda: I know :( it was similar when Debian released the last time
 * geser wants an Ubuntu plush maskot :)
 * kklimonda_ wants a plush companion cube
 * Rhonda wants a plush room to stick all you crazy folks into
 * ajmitch is glad he's not a crazy folk
<geser> Rhonda: who does then the work?
<kklimonda_> debian guys!
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I'm not a almighty and I can't to all things for Ubuntu and also for Debian. Grabing changes from Debian to Ubuntu is the one thing which MOTU should deal with. I'm doing this, just. You have to accept that. Sorry.
<kklimonda_> ;)
<Rhonda> geser: You are currently making fun of people doing the work.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: reduce the gap, not carry it along like a shield to keep it seperated. That's the point.
<geser> Rhonda: was not intended, but it sometimes hard to follow the processes to get something gone just to see that it doesn't move forward
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I think that you're too theoretical.
<\sh> ari-tczew: MOTU should also push to debian...it's also a deal...
<ari-tczew> I have to say again: I'm not going to make good for maintainer if he doesn't want to apply our changes.
<ScottK> It's just efficient.  Pushing to Debian reduces our work load in the long run, even if the changes don't always get applied.
<kklimonda_> ari-tczew: as long us you make sure that all our local changes, the ones that make sense, are sent back to debian it's enough. the rest is obviously up to DDs
<ari-tczew> kklimonda_: do you mean report bug on BTS?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: I don't think so. Reducing the gap is immensly reducing the workload of the MOTU team because every merge requires a fair amount of effort to check wether the difference still applies or wether it should get removed or wether it has to get adjusted. For every single update. Removing it reduces the whole procedure to a requestsync call.
<kklimonda_> ari-tczew: yes, it's all you can do if you aren't the DD
<Rhonda> That's *very* practical to me.
<\sh> ari-tczew: nobody says that...but we should do our best...even when I'm not a good example...because of bad experience with some people, but regarding some packages I do push patches
<kklimonda_> ScottK: btw, any chance I could get my key signed on the uds?
<kklimonda_> gpg key*
<ScottK> It's also a form of code review.  If the Debian maintainer doesn't want to apply the change, he may have a good reason that's relevant to Ubuntu and we should revert the change to reduce the diff.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda_: and I'm doing this. They couldn't understand this.
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Certainly.
<\sh> ScottK: re: If the Debian maintainer doesn't want to apply the change, he may have a good reason that's relevant to Ubuntu and we should revert the change to reduce the diff.
<\sh> ScottK: this is not always the truth
<kklimonda_> ScottK: is there going to be some organized event or should I just run from a person to a person? I know there has been one in the past but haven't heard anything about keysigning party this time.
<ScottK> \sh: I said "may" for a reason.
<ScottK> kklimonda_: Run from person to person.
<kklimonda_> ok
<ScottK> (there often is, but not this time)
<Laney> you might email a list and ask if people are interested in something informal
<kklimonda_> ScottK: where are you ? :)
<kklimonda_> Laney: which list?
<ScottK> In the plenaries.  We'll do it later.
<kklimonda_> ok
<\sh> ScottK: is UDS-N better then UDS-M or even more crowded then belgium?
<Laney> devel?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Some practical example? spl and wesnoth, which I am responsible in Debian, did carry around a ubuntu diff for several releases before I noticed it (because I wasn't interested in Ubuntu back then). Now there is no difference anymore. And I'm working on reducing the need of irssi merges, even though that's a far more difficult topic, but from what I understand doable with 3.0 (quilt).
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: please tell me, how do you imagine reducing delta?
<Rhonda> I don't imagine, I *do*.
<ScottK> \sh: It's a much larger venue.  UDS may not even be the largest event this week. Much better in that regard.
<\sh> ScottK: hopefully we can chat during next UDS in Europe again in person :)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: this is not response for my question. Please describe details of your forwarding process.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Just accept that you will not always be successful in getting your changes in Debian (you won't) and be glad for the times it does as it helps both distrobutions.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: It is a response. Just because it doesn't suit your expecation doesn't make it a response.
<\sh> dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot fstat file ../<pkgname>_<upstream version>-<release no>_.deb: No such file or directory wtf?
<kklimonda_> well, I guess the real response is "become a DD" :)
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: But not even trying to forward changes by sending patches to the BTS is definitely not improving the situation.
<ScottK> kklimonda_: That isn't a universal solution.
<Rhonda> If I would have got forwarded the changes for both wesnoth and spl there wouldn't had been a need for a difference in the first place.
<kklimonda_> right
<Rhonda> Which got carried around for a pretty long time because noone even did try to forward them.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: now you're very funny. again: I'm not going to make good for maintainer if he is lazy to review his BTS. Bug reported, patch attached - well done. What's next? I don't care.
<\sh> ari-tczew: just forward the patch to the BTS and be done with it....you don't even have to care if the maintainer is applying the patch or not..you just did your ubuntu duty
<ari-tczew> \sh: and I'm doing this...
<ScottK> That's great then.
<ari-tczew> do you can understand me?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: If you have forwarded it then that's fine. Though, when doing the merge, sending a short ping to the bugreport about the status doesn't hurt and can help a lot.
<ari-tczew> kklimonda_: help me please, because I don't know how to explain this.
<Rhonda> It did happen to me and also others that things got drowned in spam and stuff.
<\sh> Rhonda: which patch of wesnoth? in the past I had problems to convience upstream (not debian) that (int)<pointer> is not true on x86_64 ;)
<Rhonda> \sh: Related to shipping a wesnoth-all package. I heard through third parties about it in the first place.
<Laney> anyone uploaded in the last ~hour?
<Laney> weird, it was accepted but dput still hasn't returned
<sebner> Laney: you have quite the troubles today? =)
<Laney> woe is me!
<Rhonda> \sh: And if you need a mediator or proxy for such things to the wesnoth team, feel free to abuse me.
<ari-tczew> Laney: I did 2 uploads while last hour. They were accepted.
<Rhonda> \sh: My approach ever was and ever will be to establish proper communication channels with my upstreams. In wesnoth I got as deep in as being security contact person. %-)
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: ping on bug or better mail to maintainer?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: ping on bug, that reaches the maintainer and potential other subscribers, have it public documented for other interested parties to review.
<Rhonda> And having it public also often is a good driving force to keep the tone in the mail on a proper level. ;)
 * Rhonda . o O ( not for some, I'm aware of that )
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: having it public? is it private? I don't understand.
<Rhonda> If you mail the maintainer it's private in their mailbox. If you send it to the BTS it's public.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: A mail containing "This is a ping, any news on this bugreport? Is there a problem with the patch, do you consider it needs some rework? It would be kind to have any update in case more information is needed. Thanks." should be quite sufficient.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: Gotcha. Do you still think that I'm wasting a time?
<\sh> hmm..I hope google staffing will understand that I'm not into "Hello, Google knocks at your door, you should be excited" anymore
<Rhonda> anymore?
<\sh> Rhonda: it's the 12th time they are sending emails to me with content like "your profile looks promising" or "are you interested in working for google?" or "We had some colleagues here who are saying that you are a good catch for google" blabla...
<ajmitch> \sh: heh, I got a mail from them last week as wel
<simar> ari-tczew, I hope, you could guide me something at which i can work .. some security patches..  i have nothing to do and have a week totally free.
<simar> ari-tczew, by the way .. hi
<\sh> ajmitch: 12 emails in the last 6 weeks
<\sh> from us staffing, from external google head
<\sh> hunters and now from zurich
<ajmitch> \sh: they must want you
<\sh> damn, I'm 40...I'm too old for google
<ari-tczew> simar: hey, I think that I'll find some time for you.
<simar> ari-tczew, thanks a lot .. i will be gratefull
<\sh> ajmitch: I wrote an email now, if they are still interested after reading that...I'll reply with my CV..if not...I'll mark google staffing mails as spam on my google mail account ;)
<\sh> and also on linkedin and xing ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: I haven't replied yet, I probably should :)
<\sh> ajmitch: you are young enough :)
<ajmitch> though I'm dead certain they won't want me :)
<\sh> ajmitch: why? you are a damn good man...
<\sh> ajmitch: they need you
 * geser got contacted by Google too
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Thanks for assuming that you are my center of attention span.
<ajmitch> they probably did a pass over LP team members
<\sh> ajmitch: 12 times? they are crazy...or they use broken software
<ajmitch> or both
<geser> mine contact was some months ago and they mentioned my Ubuntu work in their mail as reason
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Even if you consider it unlikely, but I also have a private life that doesn't evolve around you. Wether you are wasting time is not for me to decide, you do whatever you want to do anyway. I did respond to your questions, so having it in plural form is also not really true.
<\sh> geser: that's different from the emails I got...they are refering to my "profile"...whatever that is...in linkedin, in xing and also via plain email
<\sh> I wonder how they got to know me (without googling ;))
<geser> \sh: perhaps your profile in their database
<\sh> geser: from 2005 yeah ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: so you didn't say "sign me up!" yet?
<\sh> ajmitch: why should I...
<simar> ari-tczew, if you busy ,..should I contact you sometime later... or if you like we can get in touch on email if you like ??
<ajmitch> \sh: because it's google & obviously awesome
<ajmitch> or at least they hope you'll think that so they don't have to pay as much
<\sh> ajmitch: I'm awesome, you are awesome but google...;) *joking*
 * Rhonda feels left out, haven't received google recruiting mails since a longer time now.
<\sh> honestly. I think google will become the "United Federation Of Planets" in the future, when Star Trek will be reality
<Rhonda> There was one from facebook last year though.
<ajmitch> Rhonda: \sh can forward you one, he's got 11 to spare
<Rhonda> ajmitch: heh :)
<geser> Rhonda: perhaps \sh should forward some of his to you :)
<ari-tczew> so, these mails are fake?
<\sh> ari-tczew: nope
<geser> ari-tczew: no
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: no, quite real
<\sh> ari-tczew: sadly not
<Rhonda> ajmitch: no
<ari-tczew> oh, what a massive reaction ;d
<Rhonda> I had a longish mail exchange with that facebook recruiter though.
<Rhonda> They insisted on giving me interview even after I told them that I would consider if they are out for performance in their LAMP system they should start with replacing mysql with postgres.
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: google are known for their aggressive recruiting
<ari-tczew> you must be a very good objects for hire... ?
<\sh> ari-tczew: spammers and fakers are not aggressive
<ari-tczew> btw. I've got a lot of spam with @ubuntu.com adresses in subject
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Being active in Free Software for over 10 years makes one a good target, yes.
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: they send out a *lot* of emails to try & attract smart people to work for them
<ari-tczew> are you going to take this job?
<Rhonda> Which of the 12? :)
<Rhonda> Given that they usually involve relocating, and given that I have a small family on my own, they aren't an option. Speaking for myself, that is.
<ajmitch> they could be an interesting change from what I'm doing now, but I find it unlikely I'd make it through the interview gauntlet :)
<Rhonda> ajmitch: Given that the interview is abroad you could at least enjoy the flight and visiting the other city. ;)
 * geser failed on the on-site interview
<ajmitch> Rhonda: right, I think sydney is the closest for me
 * Rhonda would love to see sydney.
 * StevenK misses Sydney
 * ajmitch has only been there a couple of times
<ajmitch> StevenK: I'm sure you'll get back there one day
<StevenK> Next month, sadly
<StevenK> (I literally leave the US in October and land in Sydney in November)
<ajmitch> so flying back next week, or spending a bit more time in the US?
<StevenK> Leaving on Saturday
<ari-tczew> simar: 21:00 UTC is okay for you?
<\sh> Rhonda: that's one of my impediments...small family....kid, wife and a good life here in .de ...
<simar> ari-tczew, wait,, let me check
<simar> ari-tczew, no mate .. i have some last classes tomorrow..
<simar> ari-tczew, somewhere after 11:30 would be fine ..
<simar> GMT
<simar> ari-tczew, oh .. i think i miscalculated ... 21 would be good .. that means after 1 hour right??
<ari-tczew> simar: Exactly.
<ari-tczew> simar: what is your timezone? (UTC)
<simar> +5:30 UTC
<simar> That would be 2:30 AM here but i will manage..
<simar> ari-tczew, What is yours?
<ari-tczew> simar: UTC +2 hours
<simar> ari-tczew, ok :))
<simar> cya at 21 utc
<ari-tczew> k
<ivoks> persia: i'll talk to you
<ivoks> persia: and you shout :)
<ari-tczew> simar: I'm here
<simar> ari-tczew, great. i was waiting .. :))
<ari-tczew> simar: I'm waiting for your ping. You want get information from me.
<simar> ari-tczew, I was having a look at some old sessions in #ubuntu-classroom
<simar> ari-tczew, ya sure
<ari-tczew> simar: do you want discuss there?
<simar> ari-tczew, sure
<simar> anywhere
<ari-tczew> simar: for me it's indifferent
<simar> ari-tczew, then its fine here for me too :-)
<ari-tczew> simar: ok, what about your packaging knowledge?
<simar> ari-tczew, I have a print out of a ubuntu packaging guide and read it almost..
<simar> ari-tczew, but don't know where i can start.. i always puzzle with dependencies in FTBFS
<ari-tczew> simar: specifically, are you familiar with debdiff?
<simar> ari-tczew, I don't know how can I learn about each one of them. There are a lot of them with no reference anywhere
<simar> ari-tczew, I hope I can do things with it..
<ari-tczew> simar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff
<simar> ari-tczew, I was already looking at it ..
<ari-tczew> simar: and what's the problem?
<simar> ari-tczew, no problem with following the guide but where to apply the procedure.. i don't have any packages on which i can work
<ari-tczew> simar: let's take an example based on merges
<simar> ari-tczew, that would be fine..
<ari-tczew> simar: btw. please be patient, firstly you must be familiar with basic packaging, then you can work easier on security patches
<ari-tczew> simar: use command: grab-merge gcl
<simar> ari-tczew, ok
<ari-tczew> simar: or grab-merge festival, less disk space
<simar> ari-tczew, I have run both. The one which will complete early, we can use that.
<simar> grab-merge festival.. says package not found
<ari-tczew> simar: ok, if you got gcl, festival is not necessary, nevermind
<ari-tczew> simar: let's do: cd gcl
<ari-tczew> do you see .dsc files?
<simar> ari-tczew, its still getting gcl from the internet
<ari-tczew> if you use terminal, let's point only .dsc files by command: ls | grep .dsc
<simar> .topic
<ari-tczew> huh, someone has changed topic to Kubuntu's channel?
<JontheEchidna> looks fine here
<JontheEchidna> both give debfx congrats, but that's it
<micahg> ari-tczew: he's a new MOTU, quite appropriate
<simar> ari-tczew, I can see a list of 'pending merges' here. Should I choose anyone in future ...
<simar> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<ari-tczew> simar: you can, but I want show you only how to use debdiff.
<ari-tczew> simar: gcl is already merged by me IIRC ~2hours ago by me.
<micahg> simar: at this point in the cycle, you should ask the person who last updated it if they are working on it
<simar> ari-tczew, ok
<simar> micahg, what do last update mean. Have they already worked somewhat on it??
<ari-tczew> simar: I suggest to move out on PM, as here someone else could broke our discussion.
<micahg> ari-tczew: this is the perfect forum for that type of help
<micahg> simar: meaning the last person in the changelog (the one who did the merge), they might have an interest in the package or have some specific knowledge about it
<ari-tczew> micahg: but I'm teaching simar firstly how to use debdiff, then how to fix security issues. Now you're confusing him.
<micahg> ari-tczew: he brought up merges, that's the first thing to tell someone about merges, before you start make sure you're not working on someone's else's thing (at this point in the cycle)
<simar> oh!
<simar> I think PM would be fine
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm teaching him how to use debdiff, based on .dsc files prepared by merge-o-matic. we are not merging...
<ari-tczew> very hard to explain
<ari-tczew> I want to close this discussion. I'm talking with simar on PM.
<shadeslayer> can someone help me with this rules file : http://pastebin.com/nDssMqWY
<shadeslayer> it doesnt seem to work
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: buildlog?
<micahg> ari-tczew: ok
<shadeslayer> micahg: http://pastebin.ca/1975878
<micahg> shadeslayer: why is override_dh_auto_build indented?
<shadeslayer> whoops
<shadeslayer> ah
<shadeslayer> micahg: thanks :P
<micahg> shadeslayer: np
<shadeslayer> micahg: so after indenting, lintian still says : binary-without-manpage
<micahg> shadeslayer: ok, try a tab instead of spaces for docbook-to-man
<shadeslayer> maybe because i have to have a custom move rule?
<shadeslayer> it is a tab
<micahg> shadeslayer: ok
<shadeslayer> http://pastebin.com/tsFS2mZ8
<micahg> shadeslayer: is it installed?
<shadeslayer> nope
<micahg> shadeslayer: so install it :)
<shadeslayer> no no no... see dpkg --contents foo.deb doesnt show the man page
<shadeslayer> http://pastebin.com/hXrvrMc8
<micahg> shadeslayer: right, it's not installed
<shadeslayer> yeah, so how do i install it?
 * micahg doesn't know with dh7 if a .manpages file is needed
<shadeslayer> its a docbook
<shadeslayer> oh.
<shadeslayer> right...
<micahg> shadeslayer: yes, but you're making it a man page :)
<shadeslayer> yes i just understood it
<shadeslayer> but.. i still dont know how to fix it :P
<azeem_> 23:47  * micahg doesn't know with dh7 if a .manpages file is needed
<azeem_> shadeslayer: add it to .manpages
<shadeslayer> right
<shadeslayer> already working on it
<micahg> shadeslayer: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-manpage
<shadeslayer> still not there yet
<shadeslayer> http://pastebin.com/mkU1nEk5
<micahg> shadeslayer: no, dh_installman is by default, just create a wmiface.manpages file in the debian dir
<shadeslayer> hmm
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-29
<Laney> anyone have any objections to merging broder's u-d-t branch? bdrung? tumbleweed?
<Laney> it will need to be a divergance for debian
<Laney> or dpkg-vendored in rules
<bdrung> Laney: yes. i like to see ubuntu-qa-tools in Debian NEW first.
<Rhonda> So I guess the slides from this UDS session makes my classroom session offer obsolete: http://agateau.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/git-for-bzr-users/
<nigelb> Rhonda: the class is still worth taking, not everyone are at UDS :)
<Rhonda> Yes, but they can read the slides themself.
<Rhonda> Is there much benefit in c&p from the slides into the IRC channel?
<nigelb> Yes, queestions
<Rhonda> Feared you'd say that. ;)
<nigelb> heh
<ari-tczew> can I do small QA things in QA upload like bump Standards-Version?
<ari-tczew> (in DEbian
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes, that's part of keeping a package up to date
<Rhonda> What I heard from a specific release team member they don't like such changes during the freeze. On the other hand, a lot of packages got approved without mentioning that, so it's a tough call.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what about packaging new upstream releases?
<ari-tczew> as QA
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: if necessary, but you should consider adopting the package
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: What did you refer to with (in Debian)? Are you thinking of getting these changes into Debian, or into Ubuntu?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ah, then not. I'm main interested in forward patches from Ubuntu, if package is QA.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: from Ubuntu to Debian.
<ari-tczew> and I need a sponsor (DD).
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: hey! I would request you to be a bit patient when it comes to fixing FTBFS
<Rhonda> New upstream versions shouldn't get uploaded during the freeze to not ruin the possibility to get updates into squeeze.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I just merged something, FTBFS came, and I had the fix
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I am talking about package e16
<bilalakhtar> and I uploaded the version with FTBFS to Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I have to set-up my pbuilder-dist to build on sid.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: well they could go into experimental, but that's just weird for an orphaned package
<ari-tczew> I remember that you gave me some tips, but now I couldn't find these in logs.
<bilalakhtar> and when I went to upload the fixed version, I noticed you already have uplaoded it
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: heh, are you upset?
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: Right, but I'm not sure wether ari-tczew is targetting at experimental.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: This is the 3rd time this happened in the last week
<bilalakhtar> This is the first time it happened because of ari-tczew , Previously, coolbhavi was to blame
<bilalakhtar> So what I want to say is
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: no, I want forward only patches from Ubuntu (bug fixes)
<Rhonda> And I'm not too sure if preparing updates for natty through debian experimental is really the way to go. It's an effort in the wrong direction.
<bilalakhtar> Leave FTBFS fixing to the previous uploader and work on it ONLY and _ONLY_ and *ONLY* if he is unresponsive for 3+ days
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: cjwatson did a QA upload when I asked him. to unstable.
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: um, why aren't you picking up these failures before upload?
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: keep it to bugfixes then only please, to get chances high that they will get accepted into squeeze, too.
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Hm, the build succeeded on my pbuilder, later I realised I had built it on maverick
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: sure, only bugfixes. no new features.
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: my first upload mistake :(
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: standards-version in the control file is just a comment for most things anyway, but release team members have different opinion and you don't want to trigger any responses based on that.
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: :)
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: you build on maverick for natty? rofl
 * bilalakhtar deletes his maverick chroot
<bilalakhtar> done, now I am on the _SAFE_ side
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I'm not your enemy, but if you're doing this... sorry man
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: no problem :D
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: So new upstream versions are definitely out of scope for the time being, unless they would also during regular times make a good target for experimental.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: example: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smarty/2.6.26-0.1ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: debian bug 514305
<ubottu> Debian bug 514305 in smarty "smarty: Please sync the install path with Ubuntu" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/514305
<ari-tczew> I'd like to QA upload this one.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I think DDs recommend RC bugfixes only now?
<ari-tczew> It's available as remaining merge. I'll prepare debdiff and look for sponsor, instead merging. Then clear sync.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Good luck in uploading to Debian
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I gave debian bug number, didn't I?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: but that's not RC
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: um, it looks like smarty is no longer orphaned and has an active maintainer who's rejected this change for squeeze.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: o_O and? Bug-fixes upload and they don't want these things?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: I don't think so, ask experienced DDs like Rhonda
<ari-tczew> Rhonda is DD?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Well, that bug is about co-ordination with Ubuntu, and something which isn't important from a DD point of view
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: maint    Debian QA Group
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: read the bug you just posed
<tumbleweed> posted
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yes of course! She was one of the earliest DDs and still she is one!
<bilalakhtar> She -> Rhonda
<Rhonda> Since over 10 years now. :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I didn't find any words like 'PLEASE DON'T DO THIS'
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: See, and the mess in that smarty bug is reason to not carry the gap along but rather to get rid of it, right from the start. :)
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: "Obviously we
<tumbleweed> cannot have this changed for Squeeze anymore"
<ari-tczew> ok, I changed my decision. I won't prepare patches for QA packages.
<ari-tczew> :]
<ari-tczew> I'll merge package insetad.
<ari-tczew> instead*
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: So you will not participate in Debian Development?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: sorry, I'm not convinced.
<ari-tczew> eventually I can do QA for e16.
<ari-tczew> but I'm sure that I'll hear in a couple of minutes "we are not interested blah blah blah, anymore"
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: could you help me with pbuilder later?
<vish> tumbleweed: hi, are you at the UDS?
<vish> bilalakhtar: i'll look at that bug , i dint forget you ;)
<tumbleweed> vish: nope - remote...
<tumbleweed> (which is probably not worth the effort - it's exhasting and hard to contribute to)
<vish> tumbleweed: hmm! i thought you were attending UDS ... now sure why i thought that â¦ had you in the "people to meet and thank" list .. ;)
<tumbleweed> vish: well thanks anyway :)
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Merged, now test-building the package
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Always remember to ignore ubuntu delta in files like config.guess and config.sub
<bilalakhtar> They are automatically generated by configure
<bilalakhtar> So even if they carry Debian data, configure willl automatically modify it accordingly
<bilalakhtar> BTW, does anyone know how to sync a package using UDD?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: UDD?
<ari-tczew> sync?
<ari-tczew> I think that UDD is related to branches.
<bilalakhtar> yes
<bilalakhtar> but you can do much using UDD
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: can I ignore also changes in aclocal.m4 ?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yes you can
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: again about smarty: it might not to be included in squezee, or it never be applied?
<Laney> Just mail a diff to the release team in advance of uploading
<Laney> s'what I've been doing
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: it looks like Thijs (who's taken over that package) is happy to make the change, but after squeeze releases
<ari-tczew> I'm confused. persia and Rhonda said 'better help Debian in release instead merging packages' and today I got to know, that only RC bug fixes are welcome.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: helping deiban to release means helping them fixing RC bugs
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: no, they said forwarding/applying (help) patches in Debian
<tumbleweed> that is often also helpful, but it's up to the maintainer and release team whether a patch is acceptable now or not.
<micahg> ari-tczew: perhaps they meant where we have an RC fix in UBuntu already
<mr_pouit> no, they said that forwarding patches to debian is good, but that if you do qa uploads, they should only fix rc bugs
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Yes, fixing RC bugs does help the release indeed.
<ari-tczew> hmmm. if QA package has got FTBFS in Ubuntu, we have fixed it, can I QA it to Debian?
<micahg> mr_pouit: I need to talk to you next week about helping with xubuntu-dev stuff :)
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: The FTBFS does potential affect Debian when switching gcc (or whatever toolchain part does do the FTBFS in Ubuntu) so yes, I'd consider those appropriate. I'm though no release team member.
<micahg> FTBFS due to our new toolchain probably should be fwded, but at a lower severity than RC since Debian shouldn't be affected until Wheezy
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: So what's the way of QA upload ATM? Theoretically: I have a debdiff, you as a DD want to sponsor it. do I need to ACK?
<mr_pouit> micahg: ah, good :P
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: You just would need to convince me that it makes sense to get the change into squeeze. Then either you or me (still theoretically) would have to open a bugreport against release.debian.org package for unblock request with convincing information why this is improving the state of the package in squeeze.
<mr_pouit> Rhonda: I'm not sure about the appropriateness, e.g. for ftbfs with binutils-gold, the severity seems to be 'minor' in the bts...
<ari-tczew> lol, too much to do, I don't have a time
<Rhonda> mr_pouit: Hmm, right actually. It will get raised after the release.
<mr_pouit> yeah, I think so
<Rhonda> Some people are heated on too high severity, so rather listen to mr_pouit :)
<tumbleweed> alhtough I'm pretty sure one of the gold-related patches I forwarded resulted in an upload, but that may have been experimental
 * geser usually forwards patches with normal severity and let the Debian maintainer figure the right severity out
<ari-tczew> geser: we talk about QA packages
<geser> I do it there too as I usually don't look who is the maintainer
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: What's the main difference with QA packages for you?
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: reduce the time for contact with maintainer
<ari-tczew> only contact with DD
<ari-tczew> $DD = sponsor
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: got a 10 minutes?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: for what?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: explain me how can I run pbuilder-dist sid on my ubuntu
<tumbleweed> note: I don't know pbuilder-dist at all :) What happens if you do that?
<RainCT> pbuilder-dist sid create   should work
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed, RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522097/
<Laney> bdrung: please say so on the merge proposal
<bdrung> Laney: i did
<Laney> ok thanks
<ari-tczew> also update failed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522098/
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: Bug #599695 maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599695 in pbuilder (Ubuntu) "pbuilder always passes Ubuntu keyring, even when creating e.g. Debian environments" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599695
<mr_pouit> (well of course, if you didn't create first, update won't work)
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: you have to selegt a specific keyring, i.e. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dktrkranz/debomatic/debomatic.dev/annotate/head%3A/etc/debomatic/distributions/unstable
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: what it means for me?
<DktrKranz> pass the keyring param to debuildstrapoptz
 * ari-tczew doesn't know what to do with these advices.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: try --debootstrapopts --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
<tumbleweed> assuming pbuilde-dist can pass through argumnets...
<kklimonda_> I don't use pbuilder-dist exactly because I couldn't configure it to work with both ubuntu and debian chroots
<kklimonda_> I have a somewhat complicated ~/.pbuilderrc file and use pbuilder directly to deal with that.
<tumbleweed> yeah, my pbuilder config grew legs...
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522101/
<ari-tczew> I prefer to use pbuilder-dist, it's more clearly for me.
<Laney> i never had to pass the debian keyring to build sid chroots with pbuilder on ubuntu
<Laney> this must be a recent break
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: you didn't pass an action (e.g. 'create') in your last attempt
<tumbleweed> Laney: one has the inverse issue building ubuntu packages on debian, and that's how I deal with it
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I am familiar with that one. :)
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: lol, look @ http://paste.ubuntu.com/522097/
<mr_pouit> ari-tczew: pass create and the extra arguments...
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522103/
<tumbleweed> yeah, so it doesn't pass through...
<micahg> ari-tczew: the release keyring changed recently in Debian
<ari-tczew> micahg: aha
<ari-tczew> .
<micahg> ari-tczew: you might want to make a personal backport of the latest debian-archive-keyring
<Laney> if that's the break, then it should be srued
<mr_pouit> (check if it is installed first...)
<tumbleweed> easy enough to find out. ari-tczew gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg --list-keys 0x9AA38DCD55BE302B
<ari-tczew> micahg: yes, debian-archive-keyring is outdated in maverick
<micahg> ari-tczew: right
<Laney> so install the new one from sid and see if you can build the chroot then
<tumbleweed> that key was created in 2009-01-27 - it should be there... :/
<micahg> Laney: we've never SRU'd the debian keyring before from what I can tell
 * Laney shrugs
<ari-tczew> micahg: but I don't have installed it... :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: oh
<tumbleweed> +1 to mr_pouit :P
<mr_pouit> :]
<ari-tczew> massacre, please but this discuss from logs
<ari-tczew> s/but/cut
<mr_pouit> huhuhu
<Laney> yeah it works if you install that
<Laney> oh
<Laney> no it doesn't :P
 * ari-tczew needs check whether wiki.ubuntu says about install debian-archive-keyring before creating pbuilder for sid
<Laney> pbuilder-dist sid create --debootstrapopts --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
<Laney> this works
<ari-tczew> Laney: and I used this 5 minutes ago. still working
<Laney> good :)
<ari-tczew> now downloading from ftp
<ari-tczew> toolchain, if I'm correct
<Laney> pbuilder-dist can work around this
<ari-tczew> okay, sid created.
<ari-tczew> now I'll test build of package
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/use-debian-keyring
<Laney> sanity check please
<ari-tczew> Laney: +1 for Depends on debian-archive-keyring !!!
<Laney> it's not good enough on its own
<ari-tczew> :(
<micahg> Laney: I would say at most it should be recommends since it's only if you're doing Debian stuff (an Ubuntu dev never needs this)
<Laney> 64kb
<Laney> I am entirely uninterested in having a discussion about that, so do what you want
<Laney> maybe recommends is right given that that's where pbuilder is
<micahg> Laney: it's interesting that cdebootstrap has a depends on debian-archive-keyring, but debootstrap doesn't
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> debian bug?
<micahg> Laney: ah, the explanation is in debian 560038
<ubottu> Debian bug 560038 in debootstrap "please make validating signatures the default, if /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg is available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/560038
<kklimonda_> can someone take a look at bug 668414 ? vdk2 has to be rebuilt to catch the migration of gdk-pixbuf-2.0 library into a different directory under /usr/include
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668414 in vdk2 (Ubuntu) "Rebuild package to fix the vdk-config-2 script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668414
<BlackZ> kklimonda_: can you please subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug?
<kklimonda_> sure
<debfx> kklimonda_: I'll handle it
<BlackZ> kklimonda_: I forgot, first create a debdiff to do the rebuild and then subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" (however, if you already did that, can you please prepare a debdiff to do the rebuild?)
<kklimonda_> BlackZ: it takes just as much time to create a rebuild only debdiff as it takes to check if its right. And isn't there some sort of script that can do that for you anyway? I'm not really opposed to do that, just that it's not going to be any faster for a sponsor to handle a debdiff anyway.
<kklimonda_> it is* - really, the longer I write in English, the more stupid mistakes I seem to make
<Laney> yes indeed
<Laney> for rebuilds I wouldn't bother with a debdfiff
<BlackZ> Laney: so was "subscribing "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug" enough?
<Laney> yeah
<BlackZ> s/was/is
<BlackZ> kklimonda_: then I was right.. just subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to the bug :P you can also skip the step to "create a debdiff for the rebuild" :)
<kklimonda_> BlackZ: I didn't really object the subscribe part :)
<BlackZ> kklimonda_: I didn't say you did as you didn't ;)
<debfx> kklimonda_: uploaded
<debfx> I guess it affects maverick as well
<debfx> is it worth a SRU?
<kklimonda_> debfx: hmm.. it may be worth it, all packages that use vdk-config-2 are going to ftbfs in maverick too
<kklimonda_> debfx: but there aren't that many of them and, from a quick look, they are not that popular (the library itself hasn't been updated in 6 years, I guess the similar may be true for applications - vdkxdb2 hasn't been updated since at least hardy)
<kklimonda_> ok, lunch time
<ari-tczew> porthose: are you going to merge rosegarden ?
<ari-tczew> xteejx: ping on bug 592328. still interested?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 592328 in xmakemol (Ubuntu) "please merge xmakemol 5.16-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/592328
<xteejx> ar9-tczew: Hi, feel free to take it if you want :)
<ari-tczew> xteejx: if you want to quute nicks, press [TAB]
<ari-tczew> s/quute/quote
<xteejx> didn't know empathy has autocomplete :D
<ari-tczew> xteejx: a lot of IRC clients has got autocomplete by pressing a [TAB]
<xteejx> ari-tczew: I didn't realise :) Thanks for that, another little helpful thing
<ari-tczew> you're welcome
<porthose> ari-tczew, go ahead if you like
<Rhonda> rotfl. FÃ¼r den Tripp Trapp Hochstuhl gibt es einen Tisch-Zusatz, der nennt sich clic clac.
<xteejx> !de | Rhonda
<ubottu> Rhonda: In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
<Rhonda> uups.
<Rhonda> xteejx: Rather EWIN :)
<xteejx> EWIN?
<Rhonda> Error Window.
<xteejx> Kein Problem :)
<Rhonda> Or in wow speech: fc
 * Rhonda . o O ( falscher channel â¦  wc in english for wrong channel? )
 * xteejx we don't tend to use wc or fc, but wc is better, although it is also an abbreviation for toilet lol
<xteejx> Is it possible to rebuild debian-installer-netboot-images on the autobuilers?
<xteejx> I think there was a timeout with the ftp.debian.org server that's all I jut checked its fine
<cjwatson> xteejx: eh, I think I'll need to customise it for Ubuntu anyway so it's probably not worth bothering
<xteejx> cjwatson: Oh ok, no worries, just saw it in the FTBFS list and had a look :)
<cjwatson> could be that the buildd isn't allowed to do external HTTP access
<cjwatson> (haven't double-checked but seems probable)
<cjwatson> thanks for checking though :)
<xteejx> cjwatson: No problem, glad to be of some kind of help :)
<simar> ari-tczew, heya
<ari-tczew> simar: hey
<simar> ari-tczew, could we resume the lesson today??
<simar> ari-tczew, I got my maverick installed.
<simar> :--))
<ari-tczew> simar: sorry, no. I'm eating now and go out soon
<ari-tczew> maybe tomoroow
<simar> ari-tczew, no problem..
<ari-tczew> in normal time, not in the night :P
<simar> ari-tczew, approximately at what time ??
<ari-tczew> simar: UTC 12:00 ?
<simar> ari-tczew, ok done..
<ari-tczew> fine
<simar> ari-tczew, c ya
<ari-tczew> see you
<andreserl> a/win 15
<ari-tczew> andreserl: thanks for your response. I'd like to ask you about change comment on MoM to more details like 'andreserl on it' or similiar
<andreserl> ari-tczew: yeah I usually do that, but when I put do not touch it is usually in packages I've uploaded
<ari-tczew> andreserl: it's not clear for all. I thought that it's like BLACKLISTED or something.
<ari-tczew> I encourage to change it.
<andreserl> ari-tczew: it is clear to me :)
<ari-tczew> andreserl: you're not the one user of MoM
<andreserl> ari-tczew: yes I'm not the only one, nbut if it says "do not touch" must be for something either if I'm working on it or iof there's something wrong with it or whatever
<ari-tczew> andreserl: so, do you will change it or not?
<andreserl> ari-tczew: I'm not gonna change the "do not touch" comment at the bug report, but will work in the merge.
<andreserl> s/bug report/merges.ubuntu.com
<ari-tczew> andreserl: not good activity for community
<andreserl> ari-tczew: never had problems before with it, so I don't see how is a bad activity for community
<Laney> why is it a problem?
<ari-tczew> Laney: [21:31] <ari-tczew> andreserl: it's not clear for all. I thought that it's like BLACKLISTED or something.
<Laney> the outcome is the same in either case though :-)
<ari-tczew> Laney: no comment
<paultag> Hey MOTU. I've got a package pending in the NEW queue in Debian. It won't make it in until after Deb freeze. Can I upload to REVU for inclusion in -N ?
<borealis> Hello, I'm a newcomer to the ubuntu packager stuff. I'm also one of the crew in the qtjambi group, and I want to get some guidance into how to get QtJambi back in the official ubuntu repos again.
<borealis> I was thinking that a good start for me would be to look at the package files for the old qtjambi packages.
<tumbleweed> borealis: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtjambi <- "get it back in? it's there"
<borealis> Oh, really? Well, it's based on pretty old stuff.
<borealis> We have reached 4.7 on QtJambi.
<bdrung> how do i get apport to file a bug with the crash information attached? please answer in bug #668508.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668508 in vlc (Ubuntu) "Running the vlc player crashes Ubuntu and redirects me to the login screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668508
<borealis> tubleweed: How do I proceed to update those packages?
<borealis> I'm a total newbie to this business, I'm afraid, so if someone is willing to lead me a bit by the hand, I am willing to update that stuff.
<tumbleweed> borealis: well the preferred way is to get them into debian and actively maintain them there, but short term: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<borealis> Hmm, do I need to be an active debian user to do that? Which IRC forum do I need to get in touch with to get some guides there?
<tumbleweed> borealis: yeah, that probably helps. There are a bunch of packages like your one in Ubuntu but not debian, and they tend to languish (like this one). Debian's stronger maintainership seems to help
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-30
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: ping
<paultag> Hey MOTU. I've got a package pending in the NEW queue in Debian. It won't make it in until after Deb freeze. Can I upload to REVU for inclusion in -N ? -- I'm guessing it's not great to request a sync from NEW -- I have a package prepared for Ubuntu, should I upload it or do something else?
<DktrKranz> paultag: which one?
<paultag> DktrKranz, fbautostart
<paultag> DktrKranz, it's lintian clean up to iIE pedantic
<paultag> DktrKranz, and I'm also upstream, so no copyright issues :)
<paultag> We'd like it for Fluxbox ( which I'm co-maintainer on ) to stop complaints about xdg stuff
<DktrKranz> paultag: I'll have a look at it tomorrow
<paultag> DktrKranz, cheers, thanks :)
<DktrKranz> paultag: fbautostart accepted
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: around?
<geser> DktrKranz: re your stepulator.app upload: would it be better to get it removed in Ubuntu too (like you did in Debian)?
<ari-tczew> how can I know whether package needs a rdepends rebuild?
<geser> e.g. from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ or from "apt-cache unmet -i" output
<ari-tczew> hmmm, on this site ^^ it might be a lot related to kernel
<geser> ignore the kernel ones
<geser> and every other file with a size of 0 (those are ready to get removed from the archive)
<ari-tczew> ok, but do I have to know before uploading, whether package needs a rebuild rdepends?
<ari-tczew> (perhaps answer is yes)
<DktrKranz> geser: uh, indeed. I thought packages would have been removed accordingly, so I didn't check
<geser> only if you upload a library and it changes the packagename
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: kind of
<geser> DktrKranz: it's semi-automatic; an AA needs to run a script to import the removals
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz:  I'm just talking with geser about rebuild rdepends ;))
<ari-tczew> geser: ok, so if I'm merging package from Debian which include new upstream release (it;s not a lib), rebuilds are not necessary?
<geser> usually not
<ari-tczew> ok, another question. I've forwarded patch for fix FTBFS (missed linking in LDFLAGS) and maintainer answered, that there is no FTBFS in Debian. how can I explain him, that this is related to our toolchain?
<geser> rebuilds are only needed if a package name changed which is used as a dependency (most common case libraries)
<geser> ari-tczew: have you tried to mention that he should be able to reproduce it with binutils-gold?
<ari-tczew> geser: no, I'm preparing an answer, so I'm asking. well, do I have to tell him, that he should reproduce it with binutils-gold?
<geser> I don't have a Debian pbuilder to double-check but using binutils-gold should do it
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: point him at http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<DktrKranz> geser: steptalk needs another rebuild as soon as gnustep-dl2 clears bin-NEW
<ari-tczew> stgraber: do you planning merge bcfg2 ?
<stgraber> ari-tczew: bcfg2 should be synced from Debian without any Ubuntu change as it's a major version change
<stgraber> ari-tczew: I have two patches I'll apply on top of it later on
<stgraber> ari-tczew: so if you want to do the sync, feel free
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: Lucky, stgraber did the whole work for ya, told you directly its a sync
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I see.
<ari-tczew> stgraber: so, now I'll sync package, then you are going to add 2 patches to synced package?
<stgraber> ari-tczew: yep
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: now we are in the moment, where most of packages require contact with TIL
<bilalakhtar> TIL?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: Touched In Last. I didn't know this acronym. micahg told me about it.
<bilalakhtar> ah
<stgraber> upstream bcfg2 is at 1.1.0 and I'll probably want that in the archive beforeNatty is released but I'll probably get it in Debian and request the sync (if after DIF). For now having Debian's 1.0.1 will do the trick.
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: look on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/katoob/natty/revision/9
<ari-tczew> inttool* files - what do you think about 3 files inttool* ?
<wakandan> hello
<ari-tczew> hello wakandan
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: sorry, I went somewhere, letme look at the branch
<wakandan1> hi everybody
<wakandan1> I'm trying out IRC channel while reading the meeting log from Ubuntu
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: hmm, this seems like a new file addition. Does the package run autoreconf or autoconf or any auto* in its rules file?
<bilalakhtar> Or, does it have an autogen.sh in the root?
<coolbhavi> bilalakhtar, I have added many keys to my gpg keyring public keys but still it shows a import error
<bilalakhtar> coolbhavi: Import error when doing what?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I don't think so. You can review files in the branch via this link.
<coolbhavi> the keys are not getting recognised
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: could you forward to Debian your FTBFS-fix changes?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, yes
<ari-tczew> nice
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I tried to run syncpackage for fakesync, but I got error about missing key. what's going on?
<coolbhavi> i ve to add something called DSCVERIFY= line in .devscripts
<coolbhavi> but m not getting that path I forgot
<coolbhavi> :(
<ari-tczew> bigon: ping
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: how we can help you?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: Uhm I'm following the meeting log
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: no question so far
<ari-tczew> aha
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: but I'm just wondering.....
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: Should I do this whole thing?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: could you be more verbosity?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: I always wanted to make contribution to Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: nice. we are looking for new contributors.
<wakandan1> and I just found how I can proceed
<wakandan1> :D
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: IMO we should get only changes to fix FTBFS and drop the rest.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: hmm, yes
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: just one thing, my goal is to become a hacker
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: oh! I'm scared ;))
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: it's just that I like to be it
<bigon> ari-tczew: yep?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: so my question is, how would doing this helps me?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: what do you think about fixing security issues then?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: that's would be awesome
<ari-tczew> bigon: could you merge libhildon ?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: great! you made my day
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: I would love to help
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: but in order to do that, I need to have more knowledge on how to package and every thing
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: I encourage you to start reading about development Ubuntu.
<bilalakhtar> Hmm, while merging I am facing a wierd problem
<bilalakhtar> A Package in Debian has no source section
<bilalakhtar> And its being rejected from getting into Ubuntu
<bigon> ari-tczew: I can have a look at it, but I've no way to test if the merge is fine
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: would learning packaging in Ubuntu help me to help out later in fixing security bugs?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: of course. we base on debdiffs or bazaar.
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: for security issues we have dedicated channel: #ubuntu-hardened
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: let's follow with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: so if I'm right, every developing related contributions must start at learning packaging, so that we can contribute our fixes later?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: I;m a member of motu-swat team, which is like a department of security team.
<ari-tczew> and I can drive you through security fixing
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: haha yeah it's funny
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: my current team's name is also SWAT
<wakandan1> I'm working as an intern
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: are you a policeman?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: may be in future :P
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: I'm just a student lol
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: which package?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: ok, to confirm, I need to be able to do packaging before anything else, right?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I'd need some more details...
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: you should be familiar with Ubuntu polices and familiar with basic development tools
<ari-tczew> of course you can ask
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: I would read first before asking anything :D
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: ok, read then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: start off as packaging
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: what will be the road map to become a fixer in security team?
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: just prepare fixes :)
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: haha I know
<ari-tczew> show your skill and involvement
<ari-tczew> then ask to being a security contributor :)
<BlackZ> bilalakhtar: add the section to the source package in debian/control and forward that change to Debian, if there's not a section for the source package soyuz will reject the upload with an error
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: is there any special requirements then?
<bilalakhtar> BlackZ: Yes, already done
<ari-tczew> wakandan1: requirements for?
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: haha I don't know
<wakandan1> ari-tczew: I should proceed on reading then
<ari-tczew> would be nice
<Quintasan> hmm, how do I force pbuilder to store a buildlog in ./BUILDLOG?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you show me the output if you run it with -v?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ekhm... in which case?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: syncpackage for fakesync
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: --logfile [file to log]
<ari-tczew> man pbuilder
<bdrung> the question targetted at tumbleweed
<ari-tczew> ok w8
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522717/
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you may have to specify a key with -k
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's my bet
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: well, the --logifile option seems to be ignoring me, I get no log file at the end of the build :/
<bdrung> and we have to improve the error message
<kklimonda_> good morning
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you file a bug for a having a better error message?
<ari-tczew> hi kklimonda_, I have to talk with you
<kklimonda_> ari-tczew: sure. I have some time before I have to leave my room, do you want to talk now?
<kklimonda_> (if not I won't be available until tomorrow evening
<ari-tczew> kklimonda_: yes, on PM
<kklimonda_> k
<ari-tczew> bdrung: bug 668749
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668749 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage crashes if key is not denifed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668749
<Quintasan> kklimonda_: \o
<kklimonda_> o/
<Quintasan> grr
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: sudo DIST=maverick pbuilder --build project-neon-kdebindings_1.0+5537-4.dsc --logfile trolololol  <-- should yield "trololol" upon exit, right?
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: try use --logfile before *dsc file
<ari-tczew> btw. I suggest to use pbuilder-dist
<ari-tczew> instead default pbuilder
<Quintasan> I'm too lazy to set it up, I have been using that for ages and it has been working
<Quintasan> Slow, but working
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522733/
<kklimonda_> Quintasan: you can also add PKGNAME_LOGFILE=yes to your pbuilderrc - then every build will create, alongside deb files, a log file with package's name.
<paultag> DktrKranz, thanks a ton! You rock :)
<bdrung> ari-tczew: debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what it means?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you run it again with "-v" added?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: it was with -v
<bdrung> ari-tczew: then show me the complete output of the command
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522750/
<kklimonda_> ari-tczew: shouldn't you sign with your own key?
<ari-tczew> kklimonda_: /facepalm, yes
<bdrung> ari-tczew: according to the log, the signing of the changes file failed => not a syncpackage problem.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: yes, but reported bug is related to poor warnings by syncpackage
<bdrung> ari-tczew: yes. the warning is poor and that's why i asked you to file the bug.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: look on changelog https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tap-plugins/0.7.1-1fakesync1
<ari-tczew> " " is good ?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: no, that's a bug too
<ari-tczew> bdrung: need a report?
<bdrung> yes
<Laney> you should double check what you are uploading
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I'll die due to reporting bugs
<ari-tczew> Laney: fix this bug then you can talk to me
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: as the uploader, checking that the package is correct is *your* responsibility.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: nope. Laney is right.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: syncpackages doesn't upload because the uploader has to check it before uploading the changes
<ari-tczew> bdrung, lfaraone, Laney: I checked *.changes file. I was too lazy to update d/changelog. Kill me please.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: too lazy is an even worse excuse for it.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: relax, we have an example of bug!
<ari-tczew> what about debian-changes-* in series file? I'm merging package and I dunno what should do I? drop it or keep?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: do you have it in Debian too?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: just this file is in Debian.
<ari-tczew> I'm adding Ubuntu delta on clean unpacked Debian package.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: then keep it. on which package do you work?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: katoob
<ari-tczew> bdrung: why you ask?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i just wanted to have a look at it
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, I m gonna work on zsh-beta now
<coolbhavi> other two katoob n scim-chewing you are free to take :)
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: ok
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: I really encourage to use pbuilder for build testing, not PPA
<ari-tczew> again you dropped the delta for fix FTBFS and now we have FTBFS
<ari-tczew> we must end this situation
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, I use pbuilder too
<coolbhavi> mate
<paultag> coolbhavi, be nice :)
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: for natty?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, yes
<ari-tczew> because bilalaktar has been used maverick for natty
<ari-tczew> so I don't understand, why pbuilder show you built fine
<andreserl> ari-tczew: sometimes it happens
<ari-tczew> I never had this situation
<andreserl> ari-tczew: i've had long time ago. that's why we usually should test builds in clean pbuilders because that might be a reason why it builds there, and not in archives
<coolbhavi> andreserl, right and some time there might be transients too
<fabrice_sp> it also happened to me. That's why I switched to sbuild
<fabrice_sp> sbuild does not requires lvm anymore, so it may be a good solution
<fabrice_sp> to use it
<andreserl> coolbhavi: indeed
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: please remember, I don't attack you. I just care about universe quality.
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, sure mate
<ari-tczew> bdrung: bug 668805
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668805 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage adds quotation marks in fakesync" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668805
<bdrung> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> np
<bdrung> ari-tczew: sometimes it builds in pbuilder but not on buildd. example: xdotool
<ari-tczew> aha
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it's better to ask instead of assuming. asking "did you try to build in with pbuilder or sbuild?" instead of complaining "you didn't build it with pbuilder"
<coolbhavi> bdrung, in openmpi case it built on pbuilder and my PPA too (since I use both for test building) but failing on official buildds as libtorque2-dev not installed but rmadison shows libtorque2-dev present
<bdrung> coolbhavi: did the package build depend on libtorque2-dev?
<coolbhavi> bdrung, yes
<bdrung> coolbhavi: looking at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58312312/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.openmpi_1.4.2-4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - it's libtorque2-dev fault
<bdrung> just retry the build once the dependency is installable
<coolbhavi> yes bdrung but it builds fine on my ppa and pbuilder
<paultag> coolbhavi, it might have not been ready for use yet, getting pushed out
<bdrung> coolbhavi: it looks like a timing issue
<paultag> coolbhavi, it happened to one of my packages off a live build. Totally random
<paultag> well, not random, but you know
<coolbhavi> bdrung, yes its available as its copied from maverick repos
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you take a look on bug 663343 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663343 in cheetah (Ubuntu) "Please merge cheetah 2.4.2.1-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663343
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, thats also another py 2.7 issue mate until support is fixed its deferred by barry
<ari-tczew> so unsubscribe sponsors ?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, not sure as barry is working on it afaict
<ari-tczew> so bug 662276 is outstanding
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662276 in vim (Ubuntu) "Merge vim 2:7.3.035+hg~8fdc12103333-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662276
 * ari-tczew is amazed due to how developers work on merges this cycle!
<andreserl> ari-tczew: yes unsubscribe it from u-s with a message "Once this is fixed, please re-subscribe"
<Laney> what's the problem with vim?
<geser> ari-tczew: cjwatson will sponsor it once he is back from UDS
<bdrung> coolbhavi: i found the issue: torque is in multiverse
<ari-tczew> Laney: who said that there is problem?
<coolbhavi> bdrung, so what are next steps?
<Laney> :)
<bdrung> coolbhavi: check the license if it suitable for universe. if yes, file a bug for moving it to universe
<coolbhavi> bdrung, but the same thing built fine in maverick when I backported a patch
<coolbhavi> to fix ftbfs
<bdrung> coolbhavi: where did it build? in the PPA multiverse is enabled
<coolbhavi> I ll link the log a second
<coolbhavi> bdrung, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openmpi/1.4.1-3ubuntu1/+build/1981045/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.openmpi_1.4.1-3ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<coolbhavi> this is on official buildd
<coolbhavi> on maverick
<bdrung> hm, strange
<bdrung> coolbhavi: ok. this version didn't depend on torque
<coolbhavi> bdrung, okay I got the catch now
<coolbhavi> thanks
<coolbhavi> universe packages on official buildds doesnt depend on multiverse
<bdrung> yes main -> main; restricted -> main, restricted; universe -> main, universe; multiverse -> all
<geser> figure out why the package is in multiverse (it's in Debian main)
<coolbhavi> yes I ll have a mail to morten and clarify shortly thanks
<bdrung> geser: it has a special license
<geser> bdrung: which part of the license make it go to multiverse?
<bdrung> geser: dunno - i just skim-read debian/copyright
<bdrung> it may contain problematic parts
<geser> me too, but as it's in Debian main, it could also make it to universe
<geser> the only problematic parts that I see have expired
<bdrung> geser: expired?
<geser> a good idea would be to let the AA check the copyright file again and move it to universe if possible
<geser> bdrung: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/torque/current/copyright ; paragraphs 1 and 2 from the license look like non-free but the don't apply since 2002-01-01 anymore
<bdrung> geser: ok. that seems fine
<coolbhavi> bdrung, geser so shall I open a bug?
<bdrung> coolbhavi: yes
<coolbhavi> bdrung, can I include this irc bit as a support?
<bdrung> coolbhavi: yes, but stating that it's in Debian main is the best support
<ari-tczew> debian-changes-0.5.9.1-1.2 don't allow me apply patch from Ubuntu. bdrung, is it file necessary?
<coolbhavi> bdrung, sure thanks
<bdrung> ari-tczew: really?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: this file contains the debian changes. you may have to update the ubuntu changes
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I tried to this way: create seperate directory, put files there, apply patch debian-changes*, then apply patch from Ubuntu
<ari-tczew> but there is a lot of warnings :/
<bdrung> ari-tczew: use quilt
<bdrung> ari-tczew: lot of warnings are caused by the patch because it contains many changes (including build system changes)
<bdrung> coolbhavi: have you opened a bug?
<coolbhavi> bdrung, doing it now just 2 minutes please
<ari-tczew> bdrung: yay, quilt pop -a fixed problem
<bdrung> ari-tczew: but quilt push -a will unfix it ;)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: but now I got built source and good looking debdiff. what's the conclusion?>
<bdrung> ari-tczew: hm
<coolbhavi> bdrung, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/torque/+bug/668830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668830 in torque (Ubuntu) "Please move torque to universe" [Undecided,New]
<ari-tczew> bdrung: http://paste.ubuntu.com/522856/ commands used
<bdrung> "quilt refresh" was the trick
<coolbhavi> bdrung, edited a small typo now
<coolbhavi>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/torque/+bug/668830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 668830 in torque (Ubuntu) "Please move torque to universe" [Undecided,New]
<coolbhavi> please have your comments
<bdrung> coolbhavi: i subscribed ubuntu-archive
<coolbhavi> bdrung, thanks
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: let's keep under 75-80 till 1th Nov (ATM is 84)
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, sure!
<ari-tczew> going out, thanks
<tumbleweed> bdrung: busy evening? :) BTW your fix for bug 665202 doesn't address DEBEMAIL="name name <email@domain>" does it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665202 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "syncpackage depends on DEBFULLNAME being set" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665202
<bdrung> tumbleweed: no. that is another issue.
<tumbleweed> it's probably an issue that affects more scripts than syncpackage, anyway
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is DEBEMAIL meant to used that way?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I don't know, but apparently people do that...
<tumbleweed> at some point ubuntu-dev-tools is going to have to get a configuration file
<bdrung> tumbleweed: configuration file for what?
<tumbleweed> yeah, unrelated issue, this just made me think of it. Things like using pbuilder / sbuild for test building
<tumbleweed> also, I'd like to add an option to specify a local mirror for pull-{lp,debian}-source
<bdrung> tumbleweed: for that we could have an environment variable in addition to programm parameter
<ebroder> tumbleweed: ++ on the local mirror thing
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you code in pearl?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no, I've tried to avoid that for years :)
<tumbleweed> but I can patch perl :P
<bdrung> i need someone helping me porting a script from python to pearl
<tumbleweed> yeah, sorry I'm no help there. Adding something to devscripts?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<paissad> hello all, i would like to know if it's possible to do a request for packaging for some software and/or libraries ?
<paissad> there are some Java libraries i would like to have them available in official repositories :)
<iulian> It is possible.
<paissad> happy to know that ;)
<iulian> paissad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages.
<iulian> You might want to give the above link a try.
<paissad> ok
<iulian> Oh, and just for your information, there is also a Debian Java team as well.
<iulian> It's not on that list but if you click on "more" you end up with http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/JavaPackaging
<iulian> Or "here".
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-31
<wakandan> hi
<wakandan> best way to learn is to do
<wakandan> I'm picking up one sample package which is appamor to test it out how to packaging
<wakandan> could anyone kindly guide me through?
<micahg> wakandan: hmm, apparmor probably is not the best package to learn on
<wakandan> uhm why?
<micahg> wakandan: it's a fairly complicated package
<wakandan> micahg: I heard of it, kind of a security package
<micahg> wakandan: right, but if you're trying to learn packaging, you probably want to start with something easier
<wakandan> micahg: right
<wakandan> micahg: may be something from universe then?
<wakandan> micahg: let's pick cil
<wakandan> 0.07.00
<wakandan> micahg: may be not too complicated then
<micahg> wakandan: it's simpler
<wakandan> ok let's start then
<starf> well hello there
<ari-tczew> gilir: do you planning merge lx* packages?
<gilir> ari-tczew, please don't touch any lx* packages, I'm currently merging changes directly in Debian
<ari-tczew> gilir: ok, thanks for response. what about ace-of-penguins? I saw that in Ubuntu is remaining one patch.
<gilir> ari-tczew, there is one patch in the bug tracker that I need to test, but you can check if we can sync it (merge is useless for now)
<ari-tczew> gilir: as I said, one patch is remaining: 10-include-imagelib.dpatch
<ari-tczew> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/ace-of-penguins/natty/revision/6#debian/patches/10-include-imagelib.dpatch
<ari-tczew> gilir: I appreciate merge from Debian due to package has got some improvements and patches.
<ari-tczew> gilir: I'm looking on bug 643336 as some changes are already exist in Debian, more convinced to merge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 643336 in ace-of-penguins (Ubuntu) "package spider (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿ÑÑÐºÐ° Ð¿ÐµÑÐµÐ·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ°ÑÑ /usr/games/spider, ÐºÐ¾ÑÐ¾ÑÑÐ¹ ÑÐ¶Ðµ Ð¸Ð¼ÐµÐµÑÑÑ Ð² Ð¿Ð°ÐºÐµÑÐµ ace-of-penguins 1.3-0ubuntu1" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643336
<gilir> ari-tczew, why not just forwarding the remaining changes to debian and wait for a sync ?
<ari-tczew> gilir: I've just prepared a debdiff for merge. to clarify a delta.
<ari-tczew> gilir: ok, I've included patch for above bug. can I upload it?
<gilir> ari-tczew, yes, thanks for the help :)
<ari-tczew> gilir: you're welcome. thanks for free hand.
<ari-tczew> gilir: do you want SRU this patch for spider?
<ari-tczew> gilir: also, do you planning get in touch with maintainer for forward Ubuntu delta, or should I do it?
<gilir> ari-tczew, not sure about the SRU, it's not a critical bug
<gilir> ari-tczew, and you can go for the "forward to debian", it should be easier for you as you do the merge :)
<ari-tczew> ok, I'll report 2 bugs @BTS
<AlanBell> there is an upstream compiz git commit that I want to end up in Natty http://git.compiz.org/compiz/plugins/colorfilter/commit/?id=d385c10d93798c5d4221b8e535151492ab59c28f
<AlanBell> to fix bug 599206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599206 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "Typo in "protanopia" color filter" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599206
<AlanBell> do I have to do any particular requests or Debian stuff to get this to happen, or will it just happen as part of the normal process?
<ebroder> AlanBell: the x team hasn't landed the version of compiz they're planning to have in natty yet (the latest version was a substantial code change). i'd wait for a few more weeks at least and see if that fix lands on its own
<AlanBell> thanks ebroder
<simar> ari-tczew, hi
<ari-tczew> hi simar
<simar> ari-tczew, I was on travelling these days, so can;t catch up wid you. Could we fix another time now.?
<ari-tczew> simar: I'm not sure. You affronted me. You could send apologizes.
<simar> ari-tczew, o-(
<ari-tczew> from objective hand I shouldn't talk with you
<simar> ari-tczew, ok sorry ..
<simar> ari-tczew, i thought to send you a message on fb but the place i was yeserday had never experianced an internet till now ..
<simar> ari-tczew, I didn't mean that anyhow..
<ari-tczew> simar: I don't trust in reason like 'I didn't have access to internet, I just have been kidnapped from home'
<simar> ari-tczew, You don't know India, we don't have access to internet everywhere ... just in yours case ... what else can I do to make you believe??
<ari-tczew> simar: dunno. just waiting for my good mood.
<simar> ari-tczew, can i pm you?
<ari-tczew> simar: if you have good reason, please let it be
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Please don't assume people are being hostile without proof.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I don't delete him, just delay. Now he must wait.
<iulian> o_O
<ScottK> ari-tczew: OK, but "I don't trust in reason like ..." is not a very Ubuntu statement.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: We have also our life.
<iulian> That's an irrelevant comment.
<iulian> The point here is that we should all respect the Ubuntu code of conduct.
<ari-tczew> iulian: I won't make my person as loser. I felt that he despised my time.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I'm not saying you're obligated to help him further, but the way you communicated with him was not acceptable.  Rather than saying you didn't trust the reasons he gave you, if you'd just said you were left feeling like he didn't value the time you were investing in helping him, that would have been perfectly fine.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: This isn't about what you are doing, but how you are communicating.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: what's next?
<ari-tczew> law court?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: My recommendation would be to apologize to him for harsh language, communicate how you felt your time wasn't valued and ask him to let you know when he thinks he is able to participate in a way that values your time.
<ScottK> Until he's ready to do that, you can work on other things.
 * ScottK needs to go.  We can talk more later if you want.
<hggdh> Guidance needed: on bug 663925 Adi asked me to take out the updated Maintainer, but this goes against the guidelines on the security page (and makes debuild unhappy). What should be done?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663925 in ncmpcpp (Ubuntu) "ncmpcpp (version < 0. 5.4) can cause unexpected deletion of files" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663925
<ari-tczew> hggdh: you mean Ari? o/
<hggdh> ari-tczew: heh. I apologise... For whatever reason I was thinking of my grandfather
<hggdh> ari-tczew: what should I do there?
<Laney> hggdh: The change is right, but we don't document it in the changelog
<ari-tczew> hggdh: did you try run: update-maintainer ?
<hggdh> ari-tczew: no, I did not. Will do it now
<ari-tczew> hggdh: cool, and as Laney wrote, don't describe it in debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> always package changed in Ubuntu needs to run update-maintainer, so there is no reason to describing
<hggdh> ari-tczew: Oh. I see it now. Again, I apologise, and will set it right
<ari-tczew> no problem :)
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I won't apologize anyone. I see no reason for that. And he has hanged on PM to apologize me. Don't worry. :]
<paultag> ari-tczew, so you can't be wrong?
<ari-tczew> paultag: I can. why not?
<paultag> ari-tczew, Well, you said that you will not apologize to anyone.
<ari-tczew> paultag: not in this case.
<paultag> ari-tczew, then say in this case. Saying you won't apologize to anyone is really out of line
<ari-tczew> paultag: OK, update: I won't apologize him in this case. I see no reason for that.
<ari-tczew> paultag: now are you feel good?
<paultag> ari-tczew, Yes, do you feel better for picking on someone over the internet?
<paultag> I'm guessing so, because this is your free time :)
<ari-tczew> paultag: Sorry, I Don't understand your question. (maybe due to language)
<paultag> ari-tczew, It's OK. I'm going to get back to some of my work. It's not worth getting into :)
<paultag> cheers
<ari-tczew> regards
<hggdh> ari-tczew: if you are willing, I just uploaded a new debdiff (and re-subscribed security sponsors)
<ari-tczew> hggdh: sure, I can take a look also.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It was a suggestion, but I would suggest that you  consider what is the best thing to do from the point of what best builds community and connection.  Apologies don't make you weak (in fact I find refusing to do so a sign of weakness).
<hggdh> thank you
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: The reason for apologizing is written in the CoC that you signed. It's the "Be respectful" part. You can disagree, that's fine - but your tone is quite regularly perceived pretty harsh. Noone expects you to apologize for objecting to his reasoning. The apologize is though required for your style.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: That's your opinion. Sometimes you should know and respect your value.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: What Rhonda said.
<ScottK> I'm not ordering you to do anything.  Just suggesting.
<ari-tczew> hggdh: I'll process your patch in a couple of minutes. I have to finish one merge.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: thank you. I am still to look at the Lucid version; should I open a new bug for that?
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: Shortly writing: I don't recognize politics of love.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I think we are suggesting that's something you ought to work on.  It will make you a better technical contributor in the long run.
<directhex> lest someone issue you with a Joerg Schilling award
<ari-tczew> ScottK: make me technical contributor can only more free time.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: No.  When you are better connected to the community, you will better integrate your efforts with the rest of the group and more will get done in the same time.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Sorry, as you said: I can disagree.
<ScottK> Certainly.
 * ari-tczew loves to be themselves.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Now you are switching from one extreme to another. Noone said anything about love, respectful behavior is something that will help you in every aspect of your professional future, too.
<ari-tczew> directhex: Balance in private life will be enough award for me.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I don't apologize anyone who has wasted my time. It's so funny.
<ari-tczew> This does not agree with the rules of logic.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you should apologize for your wording and not for wasting your time. it's always about the style and not the content.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it's possible to disagree politely.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: No. Continuing this discussion makes no sense.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it happen way too often that your wording is disrespectful or offending. i see no improvement over time.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I see nothing bad in my words to simar.
<ari-tczew> bdrung, Rhonda, ScottK: If you feel that my words are too harsh, you are too sensitive. I suggest to improve: be more hard, inflexible. It's helpful in real life.
<ari-tczew> simar must know something about respect for other people time
<iulian> Yay.
<ari-tczew> Discipline is the key.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: Two bad doesn't make a good. Don't defend your seemingly ignorance of the CoC with other people's misbehavior.
<Rhonda> And don't ask for something from others that you aren't willing to give yourself.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i am resistant, but other members of the community may be not. that's why the CoC says that we should be polite and not harsh.
<mr_pouit> (I don't think you can plead ignorance of the CoC when it is signed by your gnupg key anywayâ¦)
<Rhonda> mr_pouit: I think you mean the unawareness meaning of ignorance. I rather meant the active meaning.
<bdrung> Rhonda: what?
<mr_pouit> yeah, I realized that ;)
<directhex> i find an effective strategy is to simply not even attempt to collaborate with people whom i find i won't eb able to collaborate with. perhaps less gets done, but it's better for my wellbeing
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: do you suggest, that we should disband?
<Rhonda> disband what?
<ari-tczew> from here, community
<Rhonda> I'm pointing out that being part of the community entails respectful behavior to each other, and misbehavior of others is no justification for own misbehavior.
<Rhonda> bdrung: Can you expand your what into something that helps me to understand your misunderstanding? :)
<ari-tczew> I see nothing bad in my behavior. This discussion is pointless.
<bdrung> Rhonda: what's the difference between the unawareness meaning of ignorance and the active meaning?
<Rhonda> bdrung: active ignorance is knowingly. passive ignorance is unknowingly.
<Rhonda> And from what I read ari is actively ignoring the coc on the grounds of other people's misbehavior.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda, bdrung: Don't worry. simar won't do suicide.
<mr_pouit> â¦ but might stop contributing?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: ^
<andreserl> +1
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: who stop contributing? he or me?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: he
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: because of what you said, the other person might stop contributing. Why? Becuase he might have felt attacked by you when you told him that he was wasting your time
<ari-tczew> bdrung: No. He will got lessons from me.
<ari-tczew> He was rebuked and from now on must be obeyed.
<ari-tczew> andreserl = RoAkSoAx ?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: feeling attacked is demotivating
 * micahg sees very disturbing things on irclogs.u.c
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: andreserl = RoAkSoAx, yes!
<bdrung> "He was rebuked and from now on must be obeyed." is another sentence that is not in unison with the CoC
<bdrung> micahg: ?
<RoAkSoAx> here's the point. We contribute in our own free time. We do it because we want to. This is NOT the army. If someone doesn't put that much time or effort as we do, that doesn't mean that we are entitled to tell that person that he is wasting our time!
<ari-tczew> bdrung: Don't worry. He will work.
<micahg> bdrung: I'm catching on up the various conversations, it's disturbing
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that's not my point
 * ari-tczew is feeling proud, being in the spotlight!
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: you should feel ashamed
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: rebuking isn't in line with the CoC neither, and making others obey alike, are you aware of that?
<ari-tczew> (sorry for sensitive people, that was a sarcasm)
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: this is not about sensitive people, this is about respecting other people. If you want respect from others, you should respect others as well
<bdrung> ari-tczew: please don't use sarcasm on IRC
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I think that you're wasting time for me. The issue with simar is closed.
<RoAkSoAx> and what you are doing is disrespecting us all
<RoAkSoAx> all the Ubuntu community
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: The issue with you though isn't
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: so sad
<Rhonda> This isn't about simar, this is about your behavior.
<bdrung> and it's the third time in the last few days.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: End of the world.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: why end of the world?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: All this discussion is farce. Dramatized.
<directhex> bdrung: as in "oh, how dreadful that it's the third time in the last few days </sarcasm>"
<ari-tczew> bdrung: rest of 2?
<micahg> ari-tczew: the CoC is very important in Ubuntu, these developers are trying to help you here by explaining the issue and you appear to be making light of the situation
<ari-tczew> ungrateful people
<ari-tczew> let's open logs from this channel 30th Oct (yesterday)
<ari-tczew> wakandan1 - how I dealt with him?
<ari-tczew> please compare my done work with my "issues" (for me these things are not issues, just character which won't be changed - impossible)
<ari-tczew> you're like a robots - life and working with procedures.
<ari-tczew> please show me where I scared any new contributor
<ari-tczew> I'm waiting 10 minutes
<ari-tczew> even I'm +1 for unban Kmos who want to be better
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the FTBFS of the torque source package
<ari-tczew> bdrung: logs, logs!
<ari-tczew> ...time is goint out
<ari-tczew> going*
<micahg> bdrung: this conversation? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/30/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t17:44
<ari-tczew> ^^ really? roflmao
<ari-tczew> with coolbhavi we are great team
<micahg> this is the one that really bothers me: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/31/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t18:21
<ari-tczew> bdrung: hurry up.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i meant exactly that what micahg posted: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/30/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t17:44
<ari-tczew> bdrung: OK. what was wrong?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you assumed that he didn't test if the package builds and blamed him for that.
<bdrung> that's not polite (-> CoC)
<Rhonda> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/10/30/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t16:33 is also rather interesting statement â¦
<micahg> Rhonda: +1
<ari-tczew> hahaha, keep in preparing proofs ;-D
<micahg> double checking work is always a good idea
<ari-tczew> I'm a thug
<bdrung> micahg: to what are you referring?
<micahg> bdrung: the response to Laney that Rhonda highlighted
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: I think the issue is that sometimes you come off as rude, which causes people to not want to work with you, which hampers your effectiveness (since collaboration is key in Ubuntu) and can discourage new contributors.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: does that make sense?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: no, makes no sense.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: which, that you come across as rude, or that rudeness is a bad thing?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: Your discussion makes no sense.
 * ari-tczew sees the topic on DMB meeting: Review again application ari-tczew!
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: okay, I'm trying to figure out what confused you about what I said, so I can explain it better, so it'll make sense. :)
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: do you want waste your valuable time on this pointless discussion?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it's pointless because you don't see the point.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: there's a point to it, if as Rhonda, micahg, bdrung, RoAkSoAx, ScottK, paultag and I assert, your behavior is poisonous.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: dissidence
<ari-tczew> I still don't have a proof, that contributor was sad due to me.
<tonyyarusso> You're being told that slew of other people are upset due to you, so it doesn't much matter whether a particular one was or not.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: you have at least 7 people who have said that they found what was said upsetting.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that's not easy to prove. i don't write about it in the internet if someone upset me or attacked me (like some upstream did).
<paultag> +1 lfaraone
<paultag> Not that my opinion here matters
<bdrung> ari-tczew: how to prove that someone who feels attacked disappears?
<jpds> I do not think that this discussion is productive and relevant to this channel's interests.
<bdrung> jpds: why? we try to tell ari-tczew that he ignores the CoC.
<micahg> jpds: I guess the alternative is to drag him before a DMB meeting and testify, but I think we are all trying to avoid that
<directhex> or to ignore the whole thing and go "well, that's just what he's like, far be it for us to tell him he's wrong"
<lfaraone> directhex: the rationale as to why not to ignore it is that it's not just a person being themselves, it's that person representing the project to new contributors.
<tonyyarusso> I think jpds meant more for this particular channel than the conversation as a whole - is there a more appropriate place to address this particular issue that would leave this channel open to development discussion?
<ari-tczew> Let's take my upload access and ban me. I think that then Ubuntu will grow faster.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: that's not the point
<paultag> I'm just saying, this is the first time I've really talked in here -- I was thinking about helping the MOTU since I've not done too much to help you guys, and if such insulting behavior is allowed, I'm more apt to go to Debian and help that way, to avoid the whole mess
<paultag> If I've not known better, it would have reflected on the whole of the community :(
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: the goal is not to eliminate you, we want your help. but if your interactions in #ubuntu-motu causes other people to not want to work on Ubuntu, that's *not good*. that's why we have a Code of Conduct.
<bdrung> tonyyarusso: discussing it with the Community Council might be a better place - The CC is responsible for the Code of Conduct.
<tonyyarusso> bdrung: Right.  If a short discussion here were productive, great, but since obviously the parties involved aren't interested in reaching a conclusion here right now, that would be the next logical step I think.
<ari-tczew> listen, ungrateful folks - you see only bad things (not bad for me, noticing)
<ari-tczew> you don't see good things done by me
<paultag> nor you, me
<ari-tczew> so, please sh.. ...
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: no, I think it's recognized that your contribution to Ubuntu is useful.
<tonyyarusso> Good things do not excuse bad things - you don't get to build of a store of goodwill to pay out of when you mess up.  We are accountable for all actions, regardless of those that preceded them.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the good things doesn't need to be fixed. the bad one (CoC violation) needs to
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: people here is trying to help YOU, and then, you are still rude and tell everyone that are "Ungrateful" and that should "sh...." that's rudeness that goes against the CoC
<ari-tczew> I don't need your help now. If I'll have problem, I'll ask.
<ari-tczew> thanks for your matter
<RoAkSoAx> ari-tczew: is not about if you are asking for help or not, it is about being respectful in a community where *we all* contribute and care about
<paultag> That's like disregarding a CVE ari-tczew, your peers are telling you that you need help
<ari-tczew> paultag: CVE?
<RoAkSoAx> *we* as a whole we want a better community, and when *we* see that something might not be the *right* thing to do, *we* step up and try to help. This is why we are a Community!! And one of the strengths of Ubuntu, its "The Community"
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: http://cve.mitre.org/ â "Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures", basically, a security bug report. but that's not important.
<bdrung> and *we* obey the CoC
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: o rly? I think what is CVE, trust me.
<paultag> ari-tczew, a second ago you asked me what it was. lfaraone's just trying to help you with your terms
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: â¦ apologies, it wasn't clear you were familiar from your previous statement.
<ari-tczew> paultag, lfaraone: I don't understand CVE in paultag's sentence.
<ari-tczew> CVE is important term for me.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i think it's meant as an example
<paultag> ari-tczew, it's like a project saying that they don't acknowledge a CVE, even though everyone else knows it's an issue. We're everyone else, you're the project.
<ari-tczew> listen folks, I'm tired. please let me go.
<micahg> maybe if ari-tczew sleeps on it, it'll help, that's a good idea
<ari-tczew> no micahg, I have some work
<ari-tczew> you keep me here
<ari-tczew> hggdh is waiting
<hggdh> ari-tczew: please do not worry about me. I can wait :-). I think what micahg meant was for all give it a time
<ari-tczew> hey, I need your help now
<ari-tczew> about change: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/scim-chewing/natty/revision/7
<ari-tczew> Make both these changes directly to the diff.gz since, otherwise, the clean target in debian/rules would delete the file before dpatch ran.
<ari-tczew> but now package uses quilt. can I add these changes as a patch ?
<micahg> ari-tczew: if they're still necessary, that's a really old revision
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you help me?
<ari-tczew> That's a CoC. :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: I think that we should keep these changes. Latest sponsor didn't have objections and Debian has added QA improvements.
<micahg> ari-tczew: well, what I'm wondering is it's still needed, the second part of the diff is in Debian git (don't know about hte latest package), the first part isn't, but I think you should be able to use quilt normally instead of this hack used previously
<micahg> hack == make changes to diff.gz
<ari-tczew> micahg: yes, I think that as well
<ari-tczew> micahg: could you show me where is applied in Debian git?
<micahg> ari-tczew: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/scim-chewing.git;a=blob;f=scripts/remove-autotool.sh;h=2476868eef1262dea9aa378e8de79fc7cdefda47;hb=HEAD#l38
<ari-tczew> micahg: you're wrong. look @ line 38 in link, which you gave
<micahg> ari-tczew: ah, sorry, got my colors mixed up ;)
<ari-tczew> mhm
<micahg> ari-tczew: does it not work if that's dropped?
<micahg> Debian's packages have to build too, so I'm wondering what the difference is that would makes ours not build
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'll compare buildlogs with and without patch.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: help on what?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: above discussion about patches...
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you test if these changes are still required?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: but how check it? IMO only by test build.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: run debuild twice
<bdrung> ari-tczew: on the debian package. only if it fails somehow, we need the patches
<ari-tczew> bdrung: debuild - build source or binary?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the binary
<ari-tczew> bdrung: pbuilder is good?
<bdrung> building the binary twice shows clean target errors
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you can use "pbuilder --twice"
<ari-tczew> bdrung: heh, probably pbuilder-dist doesn't have --twice option
<bdrung> ari-tczew: doesn't it pass the option to pbuilder?
<ari-tczew> bdrung:  pbuilder-natty --twice scim-chewing_0.3.3-2ubuntu1.dsc  Error: Â«--twiceÂ» is not a recognized argument.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: using debuild would be sufficient for testing the clean rule by building it twice
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you forgot "build"?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: alias pbuilder-natty='sudo pbuilder-dist natty'
<bdrung> no "build" in the alias too
<ari-tczew> bdrung: no necessary
<bdrung> ari-tczew: please try it
<ari-tczew> I always use this alias and it building fine
 * micahg thought it was supposed to be symlinked
<ari-tczew> bdrung: the same
<bdrung> ari-tczew: can you try it with "--twice" at the end of the command?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: running, but I'm not sure about this. Similiar case is with --logfile in normal pbuilder.
<ari-tczew> bdrung: with patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/523523/
<bdrung> ari-tczew: it doesn't look like it was build twice
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you test it themselve? I can send you ready debdiff. I've pretty good explained debian/changelog.
<bdrung> ok
<ari-tczew> bdrung: check your inbox
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i'll test if we can drop 02_fix-infinite-loop-on-the-build-daemons.patch
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ok
<bdrung> ari-tczew: debian/patches/30_configure-ac.patch leads to an autoreconf run which leads to changed files not restored on clean (e.g. config.h.in, configure, ...)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: hmmm. what's next with this patch?
<ari-tczew> hggdh: are you an author of this patch?
<hggdh> ari-tczew: yes
<hggdh> oops. Which patch?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: we can drop 02_fix-infinite-loop-on-the-build-daemons.patch - it builds twice without it
<bdrung> hggdh: 30_configure-ac.patch
<hggdh> ari-tczew: no, I am not, sorry
<ari-tczew> hggdh: so, please describe where did you find patch
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i think the simplest way to get a clean clean target is with dh-autoreconf
 * bdrung needs to go to bed now.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: there is some sort of mixup here, I have nothing to do with this package
<ari-tczew> thanks bdrung
<ari-tczew> hggdh: some things needs fixing
<hggdh> ari-tczew: no problem, please tell me what, and I will get back to it
<ari-tczew> hggdh: in debian/patches/series: remove this blank line and put your patch there
<hggdh> ari-tczew: roj. For the record, the blank line was added by quilt (I just quilt-added & quilt-refreshed)
<ari-tczew> hggdh: in debian/changelog: s/(LP: 663925)/(LP: #663925)
<ari-tczew> hggdh: so please do it manually
<hggdh> ari-tczew: will do & resubmit. Thank you.
<ari-tczew> hggdh: that's not all.
<micahg> hggdh: how was a blank line added by quilt
<hggdh> micahg: I frankly have no idea. As I said, I quilt add the file, edited the patch, and quilt-refreshed it
<ari-tczew> hggdh: please add tag to patch: Bug-Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/bugs/663925
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663925 in ncmpcpp (Ubuntu) "ncmpcpp (version < 0. 5.4) can cause unexpected deletion of files" [Undecided,In progress]
<hggdh> ari-tczew: this is a DEP-3 tag?
 * micahg wonders where the extra space is
<ari-tczew> hggdh: yes
<ari-tczew> Bug-<Vendor> or Bug (optional)
<hggdh> OK
<ari-tczew> hggdh: and I'm not sure to comment in change. DEP3 tags are enough place to comment
<micahg> ari-tczew: are you referring to the changelog?
<ari-tczew> micahg: nope.
<ari-tczew> to disable-dir-removal.patch
<ari-tczew> hggdh: please also add tag Description
<hggdh> ari-tczew: the comment was added based on the examples on the DEP-3 tags
<micahg> hggdh: the comment is fine, you just need the Description tag with a short description above it
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmm. nope.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: OK. I understood that description and subject were equivalent
<ari-tczew> hggdh: is right
<ari-tczew> there is a Subject tag
<micahg> oh...hmm..
<ari-tczew> micahg: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<ari-tczew> micahg: field Sample DEP-3 compliant headers
<micahg> ari-tczew: k, then dpkg should be patched
<ari-tczew> micahg: dpkg?
<micahg> ari-tczew: source format 3 by default takes changes made to source and create a DEP-3 formatted patch with sample headers, it has for Description a short description then a long description
<ari-tczew> micahg: ehh.
<ari-tczew> hggdh: ok I'm waiting for updated debdiff.
<hggdh> ari-tczew: will update both (Lucid & Maverick) now
<ari-tczew> fine
<ari-tczew> hggdh: did you test your mixed patches?
<hggdh> yes I did
<micahg> ari-tczew: ah, ok, so either is ok, good
<ari-tczew> please describe it while uploading a debdiff
<hggdh> will do, thank you
<ari-tczew> hggdh: is there any CVE for this bug?
<hggdh> ari-tczew: none. This was published as a comment on the developer's site
<hggdh> ari-tczew: the link is in the bug description
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-24
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<nigelb> Morning geser!
<Laney> hiya
<Rhonda> cjwatson: thanks :D
 * cjwatson processes queues ... eventually
<Laney> this is the uk, we likes a good queue over here
<Rhonda> sure, because queueing means crowd means less cold wind directly around you
 * Rhonda shivers when looking outside, and I'm in vienna
<cjwatson> it's quite nice out at the moment actually
<cjwatson> or it was yesterday anyway, haven't been out yet today :)
<Laney> gloves, no hat, improvement on the end of last week
<Laney> still wearing gloves in the office too as the heating is brokenâ¦
<Laney> the annual estates-office-try-and-fail-to-fix-the-heating-and-end-up-providing-a-space-heater has begun :-)
<Rhonda> yeah, the cold season always comes unexpected, year after year
<Rhonda> Total by surprise, snow starts falling and the street cleaning companies aren't prepared at all.
<Rhonda> "same procedure as every year"
<Laney> last year I was on crutches for the winter. that was interesting.
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/washingup.png
<tumbleweed> lol
<nigelb> heh
<geser> Laney: wouldn't it have been easier to use the dish washer next to you?
<Laney> can't put it all in there sadly
<arand> Has most of testing been synced yet, or is the process ongoing for pp?
<tumbleweed> arand: everything that hasn't been modified in Ubuntu has been auto-synced from testing. Everything else needs to be done by hand
<arand> tumbleweed: Including new packages?
<tumbleweed> yeah, those also need manual review
<cjwatson> I've synced a lot of new packages
<cjwatson> there are some left; ask me if you have specific requests
 * StevenK gets mail-bombed by cjwatson.
<cjwatson> ?
<StevenK> cjwatson: I'm subscribed to ubuntu-archive
<cjwatson> ah, right
<arand> Ok, I may do some further poking in Debian before requesting a sync, (fix game fullscreening and trapping user), before requesting sync. Thanks for the info!, I wasn't sure how things went.
<tumbleweed> arand: once it's in, it'll continue to automatically sync until Debian Import Freeze
<arand> Ah, right, well if you have the time to sync "lugaru"... I'll just file a sync request otherwise, being a game it may not be the highest priority :)
<cjwatson> arand: lugaru isn't in testing
<cjwatson> oh, wait, it is, contrib
<arand> Yeah, it's one of these contrib/non-free things
<arand> lugaru-data being in non-free due to non-commercial restrictions.
<cjwatson> arand: OK, I've synced both
<arand> cjwatson: Thanks! :)
<koolhead17> hello all
<koolhead17> i am following a pkgupdate guide and am stuff with this error when i run debuild -S -sa  http://paste.ubuntu.com/717854/  help would be appriciated
<cjwatson> koolhead17: I'm guessing, but perhaps you need to install (and build-depend on) libtool
<koolhead17> cjwatson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn am following this
<cjwatson> I don't need to know that
<cjwatson> unless the specific package you're working on is named there
 * koolhead17 installs libtool
<koolhead17> cjwatson: so dependency will differ per pkg?
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> 'sudo apt-get build-dep PACKAGENAME' gets you all its build-dependencies
<cjwatson> usually you don't need those just to build a source package (-S), but now and again you need some of them
<cjwatson> well, at least you usually don't need them *all* - debhelper, autoconf, automake, libtool, cdbs, autotools-dev, quilt are commonly-required ones
<koolhead17> cjwatson: thanks. am installing all the deps to be on safer side
<micahg> if the package isn't in the archive or has new dependencies, you can use sudo mk-build-deps -i -r
<koolhead17> micahg: i pulled pkg from launchpad and making changed to it so it will not have dep issue now
<koolhead17> cjwatson: micahg thanks!! Its getting build!1 :)
<Laney> excuse me DMBers
<Laney> !dmb
<ubottu> The Developer Membership Board handles applications for new developer privileges. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess for more details. For DMB attention, try !dmb-ping.
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, Laney, micahg, geser, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<Laney> hah
<koolhead17> Laney: :P
<micahg> \o/ talk about fast turnaround  :)
<stgraber> ok, that seems to work :)
<koolhead17> i also need to have "Could not find a signing program (pgp or gpg)! " :D
<tumbleweed> koolhead17: that's not necessary for building, just uploading
<tumbleweed> debuild's -uc -us options turn off signing (which make building a lot less annoying :P
<koolhead17> tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/717883/
<koolhead17> ooh ok
<koolhead17> :P
 * Laney has that in DEBUILD_DPKG_BUILDPACKAGE_OPTS
<koolhead17> tumbleweed: debuild -S -sa am using currently
<Laney> cjwatson: do your backport scripts handle backports from other pockets? (-security)
 * Laney wonders if broder managed to write that script
<koolhead17> tumbleweed: debuild -S  -uc -us will do it for me?
<jdstrand> he did not as of a week or two ago
<jdstrand> Laney: ^
<tumbleweed> koolhead17: if you need -sa, include it
<Laney> ah ok
 * Laney further wonders if jdstrand has a highlight on "security" :P
<cjwatson> Laney: should do, yes
<cjwatson> Laney: most of the logic is in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools backport.py
<Laney> righto
<jdstrand> I'll never tell
<cjwatson>     elif '-' in options.fromsuite:
<cjwatson>         options.fromseries, options.frompocket = options.fromsuite.split('-', 1)
<cjwatson>         options.fromseries = options.fromdistro.getSeries(
<cjwatson>             name_or_version=options.fromseries)
<cjwatson>         options.frompocket = options.frompocket.title()
<koolhead17> tumbleweed: but that results into asking 4 gnupg which i dont want
<cjwatson> I think you must be confusing -sa with either -uc or -us
<tumbleweed> koolhead17: -sa is unrelated, it means you want to include the .orig.tar.gz in the changes file
<koolhead17> tumbleweed: ok.
 * koolhead17 read man page soon. :)
<Laney> dholbach: can you accept blueprints for uds-p? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-developer-application-processes
<dholbach> I don't think I can
<koolhead17> Riddell: around?
<dholbach> Laney, I don't know - is it ~ubuntu-drivers who can?
<Laney> I think there has never been a thing about which I know less than this
<Laney> ;-)
<Riddell> hi koolhead17
<Laney> I thought you were The Guy this time
<micahg> Laney: there should be a uds-organizers team I think
<Laney> it's alright stgraber can do it
<Laney> :-)
<stgraber> Laney: done
<Laney> cheers boss
<Laney> now subscribe!
 * micahg already did :)
<Laney> excellentium
<micahg> which # element is that again?
 * tumbleweed is guessing there isn't enough interest in a "what to do about motu" session? (ok, interest isn't the right idea, but possible input that could be discussed in a UDS session)
 * Laney force-subscribes everyone else
<Laney> tumbleweed: pub session
<tumbleweed> Laney: yeah that happens anyway :)
<Laney> I suspect the crowd for such a session would be smaller than it might have been previously :(
<tumbleweed> in fact, I think it was the first think both ScottK and persia asked me when I first met them
<tumbleweed> s/think/thing/
<ScottK> Call it a MOTU BOF session.
<ScottK> Try and get interested people together and see where it goes.
<ScottK> This was good for the backports sessions that last few UDS.
<tumbleweed> that works
<Laney> As long as the leader doesn't let it turn into a hand wringing session
<Laney> also, unicode problems when I try to write the lp-udd output to a file
 * tumbleweed clearly isn't good at achieving that
<Laney> python will be the death of me
<tumbleweed> Laney: you have to specifically encode it (or open your file with the open from codecs)
<Laney> i have .encode('utf-8')
<Laney> let me try that codecs thingy
<tumbleweed> it's equivalent
<tumbleweed> can I see source & exception?
<Laney> i put unicode() round stuff
<Laney> yeah ok
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/139446/ http://paste.debian.net/139447/
<Laney> i was going to implement some way of not opening and closing the file every time if that worked
<tumbleweed> well, I proposed https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-motu-bof I'll try and think of some things for us to discuss if it looks like it's heading towards hand wringing
<Laney> rock
<tumbleweed> Laney: you can't print unicode objects unless you are in a UTF-8 locale and running in a terminal (yes that last thing is insanely unexpected)
<Laney> i only added that unicode() stuff because it broke
<Laney> what do i need to do instead? :(
<tumbleweed> that tprint is substituting byte strings into a unicode string, and thus it's unicode
<tumbleweed> either explicitly encode all output, or tell python that the stdout encoding is UTF-8, no matter what
<Laney> i thought .encode was me telling it that
<tumbleweed> yes, but then you substituted it into a unicode string
<Laney> so I can remove the u?
<tumbleweed> yes
<Laney> this scares me
<Laney> tumbleweed: worked, cheers!
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/139449/
 * tumbleweed hopes to see the data in a UDD table soon
<tumbleweed> Original-Maintainer: N/A ?
<tumbleweed> oh duh
<Laney> hah, the Closes: list for workrave
 * tumbleweed wishes we used null instead of N/A
<micahg> ScottK: are you still approving backports? (will have at least one later this week hopefully)
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.  Feel free to ping me.
<micahg> ScottK: thanks
<stevecrozz> how can I tell pdebuild to build source-only (like debuild -S)?
<yofel> stevecrozz: from what I know there is no point in running pdebuild for source packages
<yofel> just run debuild
<stevecrozz> yofel, this is for building a package for a distribution other than the one on my running system
<yofel> well,  pdebuild is about building binary packages. for the source-only part it simply runs debuild
<cjwatson> In the fully general case you need to build source packages on the same distribution; but in very many cases (I'd say the vast majority) you can get away with building them on more or less any vaguely current Debian or Ubuntu system.
<cjwatson> Sometimes you need the odd extra build-dep.
<Laney> was https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2011-October/000715.html a copyPackage sync?
<Laney> it has spph.creator and yet a changesfile?
<Laney> oh, bah, yo ucan get that for manual uploads too
<tumbleweed> how?
<Laney> dunno, but I checked on a dputted one I did and it has .creator
<tumbleweed> hrm, the changes file wasn't signed. AA sync?
 * Laney checks bugs
<tumbleweed> at any rate, *someone* did something wrong with it
<Laney> yeah there it is
<cjwatson> I did that with sync-source.py
<Laney> was just looking at the massive Closes: list
<cjwatson> that's because it was a reintroduction
<cjwatson> so sync-source built a .changes with the equivalent of dpkg-genchanges -v0
<Laney> yep
<cjwatson> but that was the only unusual thing about it; I'm not aware of having done anything wrong
<tumbleweed> ah, no that's probably right, didn't realise it was a reintruduction
<Laney> I just expected it to have -v<version that was deleted>
 * tumbleweed wonders what a native sync would do in that situation
<Laney> the main argh is that I can't rely on .creator like I thought I could
<koolhead17> Riddell: how are you?
<Laney> oh well
<tumbleweed> wgrant: I thought .creator was *only* for syncs?
<Riddell> koolhead17: I'm fine thanks
<jussi> Laney: did you get notified of the factoid changes?
<micahg> achiang: would you be  able to help me with the armel FTBFS for chromium in precise?
<achiang> micahg: possibly. what's up? :)
<micahg> achiang: Error: branch out of range
<micahg> achiang: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83302810/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-armel.chromium-browser_14.0.835.202~r103287-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<achiang> yikes
<achiang> micahg: some googling on that failure shows that removing optimizations, specifically -O2, fixed the issue on MIPS
<achiang> micahg: that might be an interesting place to start
<koolhead11> i am having one more issue
<micahg> achiang: thanks
<achiang> micahg: one sec
<koolhead11> http://paste.ubuntu.com/718047/
<achiang> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PortingHowto
<achiang> micahg: there's something on that page too, did you already find it?
<micahg> oh, hmm, thought I read that page already
<achiang> micahg: actually, it seems that using -Os might work
<c_korn> hello, how can I debug DBUS? I have the problem if I open gedit with the dash and then run "gedit file" in the gnome-terminal that "file" gets opened in a new instance of gedit and not in a tab of the process I opened with dash before. and the gedit debug tells me "(gedit_dbus_run)" this is why I assume some problem inside of DBUS
<koolhead11> cjwatson: got few minutes
<micahg> achiang: ok, I'll have to come back to this later, thanks for the help
<achiang> micahg: i think that is the first step, try -Os instead of -O2 or -O1
<achiang> micahg: sure
<Laney> jussi: no
<Laney> but i trust your editorship skills
<jussi> Laney: wasnt me, but Pici. but still :)
<jussi> Laney: also, no need for the "learn"
<Laney> ok
<Laney> where did i get that from?
<jussi> Laney: some bots require it
<Laney> probably the supybot we use for debian-cli
<jtaylor> new packages are automacitally synced to precise or? (when in testing)
<tumbleweed> semi-automatically. archive-admins review them
<jtaylor> but one does not need to request it?
<jtaylor> there are a couple of sync bugs for new packages, should I close them as invalid?
<Laney> if you want it done right away
<tumbleweed> or if they were removed and are being re-added or something
<Laney> lucas: can you apply this to udd: http://paste.debian.net/139534/ ? and alter the ubuntu_upload_history to add the component column (and set it to "N/A" for all existing rows)?
<tumbleweed> components \o/
<cjwatson> jtaylor: sync bugs for new packages can be added to the ubuntu-archive queue; if it happens that I've already done them as part of my gradual bulk review, I'll close them myself
<cjwatson> jtaylor: I don't mind us getting requests for queue-jumping though
<Laney> crontab: installing new crontab
<Laney> using the new lp gatherer now
 * Laney expects angry emails in the morning when it breaks udd
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-25
<cdunlap> does anyone know if there is a way to remove a change from a quilt patch, rather than removing the 'popping' the whole patch?
<Bachstelze> cdunlap: if you have the original diff, apply it with patch -R and do a quilt refresh
<Bachstelze> or you an always modify the file manually if the change is not too big
<Bachstelze> can*
<Bachstelze> (and quilt refresh afterwards of course)
<cdunlap> thanks. I have the .deb that has the original patch but I don't think I have the original diff
<Bachstelze> you cant do a lot of things with a .deb
<Bachstelze> you would at least need the source package it was built from
<cdunlap> I think I will see what I can do with the .deb.  At worst I have to start over.
<cdunlap> Thanks for the help and direction Bachstelze
<Bachstelze> (source package is .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz (or .debian.tar.gz) and .dsc)
<Bachstelze> depending on where you got the .deb from, the source package should not be far
<dholbach> good morning! :)
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<truongan> hello ./*
<Laney> howdy ho
<nigelb> Morning
<Laney> disturbingly there have been no additions to the udd table since i switched to the new method :P
<nigelb> Did you b0rk it?
<Laney> evidently
<lucas> Laney: shouldn't your change apply to Debian as well?
<lucas> it would be better to keep the same table struct as much as possible
<Laney> yeah, if you can supply that data for Debian too
<Laney> lucas: do you know why the updates fail for ubuntu-upload-history now?
<Laney> update but no run in timestamps
<lucas> Laney: I don't know
<lucas> Laney: sorry, my UDD time is very limited
<lucas> Laney: are you a DD? I could ask you to be added to the uddadm group
<Laney> yes
<Laney> if you like, that would be fine
<lucas> ok, let's do that
<lucas> Laney: debian login?
<Laney> laney
<lucas> I created the RT ticket, I'll let you know when the request is dealt with
<Laney> ty
<lucas> Laney: done
<Laney> nice
<Laney> lucas: err, how do I run things as udd? and login to postgres to alter the table?
<Laney> soz
<lucas> Laney: you need a sudo passwd, and then sudo -u udd -s
<Laney> thought that, doesn't seem to be my d.o password though
<tumbleweed> sudo passwords are different
<Laney> ok
<Laney> docs?
<tumbleweed> developers reference, IIRC
<lucas> or db.debian.org
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's where you set it
<Laney> ah, that
<Laney> cheers
<Ceno3x> Hi guys. I want to upload a kernel package I've built to launchpad, but seems I need to make a source package in other to do that. I built my packages using make-kpkg so I shouldn't be too far off, can someone point me in the right direction?
<tumbleweed> Ceno3x: didn't I point you at the kernel teams documentation a few days ago?
<Ceno3x> tumbleweed: indeed you did, but I still haven't figured it out, so I thought I'd try my luck again. sorry man, I'm under a bit of pressure to have this done quickly
<tumbleweed> Laney: another qa script (to move to ubuntuwire when we have udd there) http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/neglected-packages.cgi
<Laney> nice
 * Laney is trying to write a "who has made uploads to orphaned packages" query
<elgaton> Hi, I'm fixing a small bug (missing dependency in debian/control) and have a few questions: 1) should I generate the patch against the debian/ directory only (as explained in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing) or a debdiff? 2) Since I need to get a sponsor for my patch and I'm working on the fix, is it right to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors and add the "patch" tag to the LP bug, but to set the bug status to "In Progress" and assign it to myself? T
<elgaton> hanks.
<Laney> 1) debdiff is fine, 2) subscribe sponsors, status to confirmed, no assignee
<elgaton> OK, thanks
<micahg> gilir: I'm assuming we don't want a dev version of abiword for the LTS, right?
<gilir> micahg, only if a stable release is planned during this cycle :)
<micahg> ok, so I'll merge the last fix from testing this weekend before the dev version migrates (not sure that a stable version will land this cycle)
<gilir> sounds good, thanks :)
<micahg> and Abiword 3.0 is GTK 3 only
<micahg> or most likely will be
<mr_pouit> micahg: a sync request has been filed I think already
<mr_pouit> (for abiword 2.9, I mean)
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you think we should take it?
<micahg> I'm happy to comment on it and request it not be brought in
<mr_pouit> since the official website says explicitly that it's a development release, I think it's better not to sync it
<micahg> ok, so, we're all on the same page
<mr_pouit> :)
<mr_pouit> Bug #881386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 881386 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Sync abiword 2.9.1-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881386
<mr_pouit> oh, you already replied ;-)
<micahg> yep :)
<micahg> and \sh isn't around to discuss...
<micahg> mr_pouit: sorry, I should've highlighted you originally as well :)
<mr_pouit> no worry, I saw the sync request this morning and I was thinking about it as well
<jtaylor> hm what to do when a package has no patchsystem
<jtaylor> but uses patch in debian rules to patch something in debian/package-name
<jtaylor> now I need to add a patch that changes the source itself
<jtaylor> add patch < patch, patch -R < to debian rules?
<tumbleweed> if it's currently applying patches by hand, it wouldn't hurt to add another one
<tumbleweed> otherwise just patch directly
<jtaylor> the problem with using aptch in rules is how does one recognize that it was already applied
<jtaylor> or does nto need to be reversed
<tumbleweed> clearly that's a problem it either already has to deal with, or simply ignores
<jtaylor> no it onlypatches debian/package-name/...
<jtaylor> one does not need to reverse there
<tumbleweed> oh I misunderstood
<tumbleweed> change the source directly
<jtaylor> yes probably simplest
<jtaylor> its an pretty bad package, 3.9.1 standard but many pretty bad looking lintian errors ._.
<jtaylor> bitlbee btw
<tumbleweed> the lovely thing about being a debian derivative is that we don't have to care about bad packages too much :) we just fix the bug we are there for and move on
<arand> jtaylor: Seems the bitlbee packaging for debian is actually done upstream..
<tumbleweed> is that why it's so bad? :)
<jtaylor> would explain why its not up to date to current packaging practices
<arand> Comment at the head of the rules file is interesting :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-26
<Laibsch> I'd appreciate if somebody who is familiar with the maintainer scripts had a look at bug 881806 to help with triage
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 881806 in icecc (Ubuntu) "icecc does not remove cleanly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881806
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> morning
<Laney> dholbach: you might be interested in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-motu-bof
<dholbach> ah, yes!
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> tumbleweed: components are now in udd
<Laney> sql to get the historical data right welcomed
<tumbleweed> \o/
 * Laney braves the gym for the first time this year
 * Laney returns, dead
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I think once bug 878499 is nailed, we can do another u-d-t upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878499 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[sponsor-patch] Version check fails for sync requests" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878499
<tumbleweed> Laney: I made syncpackage in trunk ignore CURRENT blacklisting, and added a --fakesync option instead of --no-lp --force
<Laney> nice nice
<Laney> comment printing too?
<tumbleweed> yeah, it always prints the comments now
<Laney> good stuff
<tumbleweed> it's also a little more pedantic about fakesyncing
<tumbleweed> it won't fakesync with --no-lp. And will complaid if it doesn't need to fakesync and you told it to
<tumbleweed> that also means one can't force a blacklist override any more (when not fakesyncing). Do we think we need that?
<micahg> tumbleweed: I think that's probably good, the blacklist should be removed if not needed anymore (assuming this is the ubuntu-archive blacklist list)
<tumbleweed> it checks both that and lp
 * micahg doesn't know about the LP blacklist
<tumbleweed> +localpackagediffs has one
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have time to look at bug 878499?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 878499 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[sponsor-patch] Version check fails for sync requests" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878499
<tumbleweed> oh, and the documentatino bug, just filed
<tumbleweed> yeah I might have some time this evening
 * bdrung needs sleep.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-27
<micahg> tumbleweed: the botan1.8 upload should've been 1.8.13-1ubuntu0.1 instead of 1.8.13-1.1
<micahg> 1.8.13-1.1 makes it look like a Debian upload
<micahg> ScottK: when you get a chance bug 877074 looks fine to me, no rdepends except a suggests
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 877074 in Oneiric Backports "Please backport workrave 1.9.4-2 to oneiric" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877074
<dholbach> Guten Morgen Berlin! :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: thanks, /me blames dch
<micahg> yep, makes sense
<Laney> morning
<Laney> today I try in earnest to recover from the lurgy before Saturday
<nigelb> Laney: Flying out Saturday?
<Laney> yep
<nigelb> Nice.
<nigelb> I'll miss you all.
<Laney> :(
<Laney> we need some nigelb!
<nigelb> Laney: heh
<cjwatson> Laney: beer helps with the lurgy </lie>
<Rhonda> Laney, you had an issue with a changelog link from the packages site. Which package was that again?
<Laney> Rhonda: I don't remember :( It was something to do with .../changelog (or .../package.changelog) not always existing, possibly to do with multiple binary packages
<Rhonda> It might be that it was with an .xz compressed upstream tarball and too old dpkg-dev on the extraction host (which though isn't under my umbrella)
<Rhonda> We noticed this issue with packages.debian just recently
<AnAnt> Hello, is precise sync'ing from testing or unstable ?
<\sh> AnAnt, testing
<aboudreault> Hi ppl!
<aboudreault> I currently build my packages in a VM (OpenVZ) of ubuntu lucid. I'm using cowbuilder right now. Unfortunately... I cannot build any packages for Debian SID (Unstable) since it is now multi-arch and things do not work anymore. Not sure why exactly.
<aboudreault> I want to build another virtual machine on my laptop using LXC. Do you have a setup to recommend me?
<aboudreault> is cowbuilder still the tool to use?
<pmjdebruijn> aboudreault: doesn't cowbuilder build a chroot?
<pmjdebruijn> each chroot has it's own libs, so multiarch shouldn't matter right
 * pmjdebruijn might be completely wrong
<aboudreault> pmjdebruijn, yes
<aboudreault> pmjdebruijn, I'm getting this error:
<aboudreault> http://pastebin.com/NR53n7PG
<aboudreault> can't update/create new env anyhow
<aboudreault> it might be not related to multi-arch etc.... but all other env works. (ubuntu)
<aboudreault> and sid worked before.
<pmjdebruijn> odd indeed
<cjwatson> aboudreault: what does 'uname -r' say?
<aboudreault> 2.6.24-28-openvz
<cjwatson> aboudreault: then the message means exactly what it says and this has nothing to do with multiarch
<cjwatson> "WARNING: this version of the GNU libc requires kernel version 2.6.26 or later"
<cjwatson> that isn't the lucid kernel, it's from hardy
<aboudreault> I don't think openvz is in lucid
<cjwatson> I'm afraid you can't run sid on that kernel
<aboudreault> ok, fine then... it should work properly in a new LXC vm.
<cjwatson> yep
<aboudreault> thanks for pointing that!
<aboudreault> I thought this message was related to INSIDE the chroot.
<cjwatson> well, it is
<cjwatson> it relates to the libc inside the chroot and the running kernel installed outside the chroot
<aboudreault> yeah
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-28
<dholbach> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> mornin
<bullgard4> Rhonda: I have detected a bug in packages.ubuntu.com. How to deal with it?
<Rhonda> No clue because you didn't tell me what the bug is. :)
<Rhonda> First thing would be to really find out whether it's a bug in packages.u.c or one in changelogs.ubuntu.com
<bullgard4> Rhonda: If I am looking up a certain package in packages.ubuntu.com for Ubuntu 10.04, 10.10, 11.04, I can find the description of this package. But packages.ubuntu.com does not show the description of a package for Ubuntu 11.10.
<Rhonda> As you haven't given the name of the "certain package" I still have no clue. :)
<Rhonda> You see, it's hard to help you if you don't give me the information which are crucial to reproduce the issue on my side and check from there on.
<geser> Rhonda: could it be because the long descriptions moved from the Packages file to Translations?
<geser> Rhonda: compare http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/ubuntu-dev-tools with http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/ubuntu-dev-tools (no long description)
<Rhonda> thanks, that's something with a substance
<Rhonda> So information was removed from the Packages files in Ubuntu specificly which is there in Debian still?
<bullgard4> Rhonda: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/gnome-commander does not contain the desscription of the gnome-commnder package.
<Rhonda> So it's not even a "certain package" but instead, *every* package?
<geser> yes
<bullgard4> Rhonda: I have tried 3 examples. All three showed this effect.
<Rhonda> bullgard4: Then please don't speak about a certain package, that is misleading and confusing on my end.
<bullgard4> Right. Please excuse me.
<Rhonda> Because that rather sounds you have found it in one package but seen other package that do *not* show that behavior.
<Rhonda> And don't get me wrong or grumpy, it's not meant that way. But your description was a bit flakey :)
<geser> "something isn't working, plz fix!" :)
<Rhonda> geser: if it's just something, then I'm happy with that the rest is still working!  \o/
<Rhonda> Hmm, but that sounds like a tricky issue.  Was there some announce about the removal of the package description, and where those can be found now?  How do other package frontends cope with it?
<geser> they are now in e.g. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/universe/i18n/Translation-en
<geser> apt downloads them together with the Packages files. apt-cache, synaptic and software-center (didn't check other tools) can display them
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> I am uncertain, haven't checked the code, but if what I did just now works then I'm pleased.
<micahg> Rhonda: was part of enabling multiarch to make the download size more tolerable
<Rhonda> We'll know in 2 hours I guess.
<Rhonda> I fear though it might not be that easy and "en" is special-cased â¦
<cjwatson> Rhonda: "en" is kind of special-cased, yes
<cjwatson> I can't remember if I announced that change
<cjwatson> it hadn't occurred to me that things other than apt were going to care, I suspect
<cjwatson> yeah, I can't see an announcement, sosrry
<cjwatson> *sorry
<Rhonda> I mean "en" special-cased inside the packages code. :)
<geser> Rhonda: should your fix be visible by now?
<Rhonda> potentially yes, the last run was an hour ago
<Rhonda> hmmmm
<Rhonda> 09:26:50 URL:http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/i18n/Translation-en.bz2 [701370/701370] -> "Translation-en.bz2" [1]
<Rhonda> It at least fetched the file
<Rhonda> wtf
<Rhonda> Reading Translations for en (en)...bzcat: Can't open input file /srv/packages.ubuntu.com/archive/*/sid/*/i18n/Translation-en.bz2: No such file or directory.
<Rhonda> sid?!
<Rhonda> â¦ and wheezy and squeeze and lenny
<cdunlap> Quick question
<cdunlap> So where do you put the dep3 information when you fix a bug?  I found docs to tell me what to include for dep3 but  I am a bit unclear on where to actually put the information.
<tumbleweed> cdunlap: at the top of the patch. patch ignores junk data at the beginning of patches
<tumbleweed> or just run "quilt header -e"
<cdunlap> Thank You tumbleweed.  I really appreciate it.
 * tumbleweed wonders if upgrading pre-LTS is a good idea
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: what could possibly go wrong?
<tumbleweed> err, pre UDS
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: 18 hours of flight with a broken laptop? Mind you I can probably only squeze 4 hours out of my pair of batteries...
<ajmitch> the fun breakage tends to happen after UDS, when people have time to hack on new stuff
<tumbleweed> that's true
<nigelb> ajmitch: Going to UDS?
<ajmitch> nigelb: heh, no
<nigelb> company \o/
<Rhonda> <nelson point="ajmitch">HA HA!</nelson>
<ajmitch> :(
<Rhonda> because of your nice quote. :)
<ajmitch> quote?
<Rhonda> "what could possibly go wrong"
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: but history tells to not do upgrades close to specific dates, and those include giving talks (have been hit by b0rked presentation tools myself) and wordprocessing (like, you have to deliver your work and libreoffice likes to lock you out or eat your documents)
<Rhonda> And it happenend to others before too. But .. 18 hours of flight, your battery won't last that long, take a book with you if that's your only worry. :)
<tumbleweed> indeed, travelling is my most productive reading time
<tumbleweed> but long flights are also great for writing that large chunk of code you never get around to when you have internet access
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: 18 hour flight? almost like you live in NZ :)
<tumbleweed> 13 hours to US, and little flights on either side
<nigelb> ajmitch: if he was in NZ, that would be 28 :P
<ajmitch> nigelb: nah, it's ~12 hours to LAX or SFO
<nigelb> Not to Orlando :P
<ajmitch> no, but it wouldn't be another 16 hours to fly across the US
<nigelb> heh
<jtaylor> someone fancy uploading a no change rebuild sru?
<jtaylor> bug 883204
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883204 in rpy (Ubuntu) "rpy fails to import in oneiric due to version mismatch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883204
<jtaylor> target oneiric, maybe also maverick
<jtaylor> I wonder why it needs rebuilding for minor releases ...
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sure, I'll look at it
 * tumbleweed reminds jtaylor to get some upload rights, already
<jtaylor> hm  guess I should finish my application this weekend
<tumbleweed> heh, ^5
<geser> tumbleweed: finally found time to merge your lp-ftbfs-report MP. Thanks for it.
<tumbleweed> geser: thanks
<tumbleweed> it's probably possible to share some caching between the sqlite database and json file that the other bits produce, I haven't looked at that
<tumbleweed> wgrant: ^ when you deploy that, you can grab the history for precise from ~stefanor/public_html/lp-ftbfs-report/historical/source/primary-precise.db
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: uploaded
<jtaylor> thx, maverick too?
<jtaylor> my chroot is still setting up
<jtaylor> it also fails but did not test if rebuild helps
<tumbleweed> err, no
 * tumbleweed didn't look at maverick
 * jtaylor building
<jtaylor> yup also fixed by rebuild
<tumbleweed> have you filed a bug in debian about adding a Breaks / Depends on r-base-core << foo + 1 ?
<jtaylor> no but I will
<tumbleweed> thanks
 * tumbleweed merges the ubuntu bugs, and adds a maverick task
<jtaylor> debian bug filed
<Laney> packing, i hate you so
<tumbleweed> hrm, should do something about that...
<Laney> travelling tomorrow?
<tumbleweed> yeah
<broder> i still need to figure out what computer i'm bringing
<Laney> the luxury of choice
<tumbleweed> heh, yeah, also only 1 suitable for travel here (and it's well due for replacement)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-29
<psusi> what's the system call to get the current process name?
<jtaylor> prctrl with PR_GET_NAME?
<jtaylor> prctl
<psusi> ty
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-30
<Laney> urgh
<LaserJock> so is it cool to start merging for precise or no?
<micahg> LaserJock: sure, people have been merging for 2 weeks :)
<LaserJock> micahg: I just wondered if there was a reason to wait. Like an unsettled toolchain, etc.
<micahg> LaserJock: not that I know of
<cjwatson> Rhonda: is packages.debian.org/changelogs/ having trouble that you know of?  Both of the package versions I've looked up today are missing from it (haskell-hledger 0.16.1-2 and facturlinex2 2.0.1-1)
<Zhenech> cjwatson, do these use xz compression?
<Zhenech> hm, no
<Rhonda> Zhenech: thanks for asking that, so I don't need to do it myself :)
<cjwatson> Rhonda: I don't believe they do anyway, no
<Rhonda> hmm, from a quick glance I'm uncertain
<Rhonda> But there is new and eager blood around who found out what the trouble was with having the packages site on squeeze.
<Rhonda> Maybe he wants to dig into this issue, too :)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> ghc_7.0.4-8_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable
<Rhonda> it might be that the packages site hates haskell and pascal?
<cjwatson> Laney: bah?
<cjwatson> oh, slowed you down?
<Laney> yeah, was about to upload :-)
<stlsaint> hey can anyone assist me in getting internet bridged thru to me qemu ARM machine
<highvoltage> yay, only one hour left before flight on orlando is supposed to board \o/
<nigelb> \o/
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-22
 * micahg wonders where the sponsoring queue went
<maxiaojun> hi
<maxiaojun> I want to make "tegaki-zinnia-traditional-chinese" into Ubuntu. pad.lv/1069292
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> Good morning everybody
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<vibhav> hmm, anybody knows what happened to the sponsor queue?
<Laney> dholbach: ^?
<dholbach> Laney, what is the question?
<dholbach> vibhav, ^
<dholbach> Last updated at: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:24:30 -0000
<dholbach> looks fine to me
<Laney> am i going to the wrong link?
<Laney> !sponsoring
<ubottu> You can find out about the package sponsorship process here http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess - For !UDS sponsorship see http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/sponsorship/
<dholbach> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<vibhav> reqorts
<vibhav> Its http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ on the topic
<Laney> yeah reqorts?!
<dholbach> so
<dholbach> ?
<dholbach> what's the question? :)
<Laney> has that always been it?
<Laney> did reports work before?
<Laney> it's at least linked from that wiki page
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<dholbach> in the last few years it's always been there
<Laney> (and in my browser history as reports)
<vibhav> dholbach: the topic links to http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ and not  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring
<Laney> I suspect some redirect stopped working
<dholbach> ok, then maybe it should be fixed there
<dholbach> I've got to rush off, so I'll leave you guys to it :)
<dholbach> see you in a bit
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I'd rather not fix every link
<vibhav> Can I do it then?
 * Laney asks IS
<vibhav> I always that it was reports, wierd :|
<vibhav> what does reqorts mean anyway?
<Laney> I strongly suspect that there was a redirect
<vibhav> probably
<Laney> checking
<Laney> anyone seen python-keyring (or whatever it is) forcing you to reset your keyring password every time?
<Laney> Please enter password for encrypted keyring:
<Laney> Please set a password for your new keyring:
<Laney> Please confirm the password:
<xnox> Laney: did you change your user password?
<xnox> in a non-gui way?
<Laney> no, I just created the keyring
<Laney> there is no GUI, it's inside lxc
<xnox> horum. sorry, no idea.
<Laney> that makes two of us
<vibhav> Laney: nope
<Laney> vibhav: should be coming back soonish
<vibhav> thanks
<Laney> dholbach: Turns out reports.qa.u.c got moved to a new server which didn't have the old /reports/ stuff (reqorts is the old server which used to be reports)
<vibhav> reposts!
<vibhav> Anyways, thanks again
<cjwatson> All you folks doing syncs to raring may want to hold off a bit.
<cjwatson> Depending on how our upload changes work out, they may end up being rejected.
<Laney> what about manual uploads?
<cjwatson> Those should be fine
<cjwatson> (Not that I'm encouraging people to do manual uploads that should be syncs)
<Laney> no, I meant real ones
<cjwatson> If you must do syncs early, then for now I suggest targeting raring-proposed rather than raring.
<cjwatson> Worst case for that is a bit of extra work for archive admins.
<Laney> hm, UDD seems unhappy
<Laney> http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/ "11228 outstanding jobs"
<Laney> is this a usual release opening thing?
<Laney> bzr branch lp:debian/unstable/<anything> fails
<cjwatson> Laney: need to ask for it to be re-enabled - trying to figure that out now
<Laney> cjwatson: great, cheers
<mitya57> dholbach: online?
<Laney> Rhonda: could you make packages.u.c list quantal-{updates,backports}?
<Laney> also possibly raring (and maybe it is now interesting to list -proposed for the dev series?)
<cjwatson> That would encourage users to use <dev>-proposed, so I wouldn't recommend that
<cjwatson> quantal-{updates,backports} and raring should indeed happen though
<dholbach> mitya57, yes
<Laney> yeah, maybe it would
<mitya57> dholbach: I won't be happy until developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html is fixed :)
<Laney> -backports is now extant for the development release, on the other hand
<mitya57> (now everything returns 403)
<Laney> d.u.c works here
<Laney> packaging guide's css is busted though
<geser> Laney: if you find a work-around for the password changing (from python-keyring) let me know plz. I see it in my dev chroot too and it's annoying :(
<mitya57> that's because it's now symlinked to /usr/share/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
<Laney> geser: I've been hacking scripts to set credentials_file
<Laney> perhaps we should, like, debug it
<dholbach> mitya57, I know - it's on my list - today is a crazy day
<dholbach> mitya57, I'll take care of it in a bit
<mitya57> dholbach: I understand...
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> will let you know when it's fixed
<mitya57> dholbach: not needed
<geser> Laney: I was simply using requestsync to trigger it
<Laney> geser: yes, it's trivial to trigger
<Laney> i'm saying we should find out why it happens and file a bug
<Rhonda> Laney: Ah, of course.
<Rhonda> Laney: "are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?"
<Rhonda> natty is discontinued now, right?
<mitya57> Rhonda: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anypackage says it's still supported
<mitya57> The close date is something like Oct 28
<Rhonda> I won't let it in, commit the change for quantal release now and remove it in a week's time from the packages site.
<Rhonda> That doesn't make much sense to me. :)
<al-maisan> is there a way of setting the JAVA_HOME env. variable in arch-independent fashion so that the JVM is found irrespective of 32/64 bit installation?
<al-maisan> Right now I use JAVA_HOME="/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-amd64" but I guess that won't work on a 32-bit system, right?
<Rhonda> hahahaha, MOTD on jubany.c.c  :D
<Rhonda> "do not reboot" in banner lettering. :)
<Rhonda> hmmmm
<al-maisan> hmm .. /usr/lib/jvm/default-java is arch-independent and what I was looking for
<Rhonda> Laney, cjwatson: Should be done, after the next cron job/mirror push.
<cjwatson> Thanks
<Laney> Rhonda: great
<Laney> maybe you want to remove Frank's name ;-)
<Rhonda> He's still there?
<Laney> at the top, yeah
<Laney> ... and the bottom
<Rhonda> huhm, right
<Rhonda> â¦ and this MOTD motivates me to finally start up aewan again and produce some ubuntu branded ascii art. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ including offering my own figlet font for the lettering.
<nigelb> You have your own figlet font?
 * nigelb bows
<Rhonda> Yes.
 * highvoltage needs new figlet fonts
<Rhonda> Actually I should pester sam to include it as default for toilet, but I think he's more interested in utf8 fonts
<Laney> figlet FIG figlet FIG
<Rhonda> http://fav.me/d7ghx8 is one of the favorites of my creations.  ;)
<highvoltage> that looks gimped.
<Rhonda> :)
<Rhonda> Laney: Hmm, well, I'm looking after it these days, but I wouldn't call it maintaining.  I'm uncertain.  Not until I changed a bit more of the code. :)
<Rhonda> But, the "to report a problem" I will change right ahead, yes.
<Rhonda> ok, the dynamic pages already have my email address at the bottom, the rest will follow after the next rerun
<Rhonda> (and I expect to get spammed even more now â¦
<Laney> ;-)
<mitya57> dholbach: will now try the sphinx patch
<mitya57> (though it's a bit strange that the pull request has been deleted)
<mitya57> wow, there's a new pull request that attempts to fix japanese LaTeX problems!
<dholbach> mitya57, yeah, I saw it - we should maybe ping upstream :)
<dholbach> barry knows upstream IIRC
<barry> dholbach, mitya57 sphinx upstream?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> they have a bunch of pull requests which didn't get reviewed :)
<barry> dholbach: i think georg has just been swamped lately, but i think i've seen some recent activity from him on sphinx
<dholbach> particularly the i18n stuff would be good to get in
<mitya57> I get this trying to build sphinx with that patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1297780/
<mitya57> oops, the same happens without the patch :(
<mitya57> ah, that's because I'm using new docutils I built for raring...
<mitya57> https://bitbucket.org/birkenfeld/sphinx/issue/998/docutils-010-will-break-sphinx-manpage
<mitya57> dholbach: when I revert last three translation commits and do "make html-es", that succeeds
<mitya57> does that mean that the patch works?
<dholbach> err
<mitya57> I thought there was some workaround in the translations...
<dholbach> I'm not quite sure - are you trying this with the sphinx upstream patch now?
<mitya57> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> and with the the last 3 changes applied it doesn't work?
<dholbach> is the crash report the same as in the bug?
<mitya57> with the last 3 changes applied it should always work (even without the patch), shouldn't it?
<dholbach> no, it crashes for me
<mitya57> will try now
<dholbach> it seems like the translated href names were a red herring, so not the actual problem :/
<mitya57> succeeds
<dholbach> NICE
<mitya57> As the package now lives in Debian, we'll need jwilk to accept this patch
<dholbach> do you think you can upload the source package into your PPA maybe?
<dholbach> sphinx I mean
<dholbach> then I'll have a look at it, play around with it some more and stick it into our team ppa for the time being (until we can fix it in ubuntu itself)
<mitya57> dholbach: but I can, yes
<dholbach> mitya57, thanks so much for your work on this
<mitya57> no, we can't fix it in ubuntu itself: ^^
<dholbach> in an SRU then
<mitya57> SRU is fine, yes
<dholbach> perfect
<bobweaver> Hello there I am trying to make a meta package that installs like a top 20 list of things that I do after installing Ubuntu. but I would like to use debconf to make this happen. like for the meta package "Ubuntu restricted extras"  I would like to have a debconf that says "Ubuntu restricted extras installs X,Y&Z . Would you like to install this package. " thus giving the end-user the option to select Yes or No . but I can not figure out
<bobweaver>  how to implant that in debconf. This is how I think that I will do it. set up stanzas for debconf and have then answer store then call them. maybe I should make "debian/ubuntu-restricted-extras.install" and if yes in debconf install. How would you do it?  or have any tips ?
<bobweaver> ^^ in debian policy manner that is ^^
<cjwatson> You can't do that in debconf, because apt/dpkg aren't re-entrant - a package can't conditionally install another package in its maintainer scripts.
<micahg> bobweaver: I think sessioninstaller is closer to what you're looking for
<cjwatson> You would have to write a script that does the installation, outside of the context of postinst scripts etc.
<bobweaver> cjwatson,  micahg  thanks a ton !  cjwatson  could script be to launch other app that was installed 1st. er... so like say I am writing app (qml) that is tutorial for new users (like about unity press super for this have super button symbol show up on screen.) could I use something like that but would it have to be in nm PreDepends sorry. I am just trying to make a program (qml) that takes and gives tour of Ubuntu desktop then on tour g
<bobweaver> ives option to install packages.
<micahg> bobweaver: sessioninstaller is what you're looking for
<bobweaver> Oh cool this is dbus reader thanks again micahg
<cjwatson> But just to re-explain my comments: while your package's postinst script is running, you can't install any other packages.
<cjwatson> It doesn't matter whether you hide that in some other script.
<bobweaver> because dpkg is already busy correct ?
<cjwatson> It would have to be something the user ran separately (and, yes, probably involving sessioninstaller or something like it).
<cjwatson> Correct.
<cjwatson> And you don't want to use Pre-Depends.
<cjwatson> If your program runs outside the context of installing the package containing it, then dpkg won't be busy and you can install stuff.
<bobweaver> I see cjwatson  I am going to read more into sessioninstaller but I think i am going to have to just write something into the app like declarative onfirsttimelaunch.cpp or something like that. Thanks again everybody :)
<maveze> Hi, anyone know what can i do with that error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libgstinterfaces-0.10.so.0 needed by... (ELF format: 'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '')??
<jtaylor> is it normal that you get binary-nmu-debian-revision-in-source lintian warning with backport version numbers?
<jtaylor> binary-nmu-debian-revision-in-source 0.13.1-1~ubuntu12.10.1~ppa1
<micahg> sounds normal from the description
<jtaylor> I didn't get it with ~code-name~ppa
<jtaylor> what is confusing lintian here?
<micahg> 12.10.1
<jtaylor> ah
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> never seen a three part binnmu version
<micahg> it sounds old
<micahg> "(The +b form is the current standard; the three-part version number now obsolete.)"
<jtaylor> micahg: has bug 1040756 been overlooked or is it just to invasive?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040756 in Precise Backports "Please backport fftw3 3.3.2-3.1ubuntu1 (main) and fftw3-mpi from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040756
<micahg> I didn't see it yet
<jtaylor> the rdeps are scary, but there was only one issue in 6 month were a package used fftw3 wrong
<jtaylor> (obscure science package)
<micahg> jtaylor: none of the rdeps are marked as tested
<jtaylor> micahg: its impossible to test so much
<jtaylor> I was thinking that the lack of bugs might be enough :)
<tumbleweed> you can at least test a reasonable number of them
<tumbleweed> preferably the high-popcon ones
<tumbleweed> (but I am not a backporter) :P
<jtaylor> I would expect high popcon ones to already have noticed something
<micahg> different versions of the rdeps could also affect things
<jtaylor> that should be pretty unlikely
<jtaylor> the library hasn't really changed that much, just got support for new cpu instructions under the hood
<jtaylor> but I'm fine with waiting a little longer
<jtaylor> probably avx enabled cpu's are still to rare
<micahg> jtaylor: I would like to see some build/install/run testing of at least the on-image packages
<micahg> seems like most of this stuff would affect Ubuntu studio mostly
 * micahg wonders if reverse-depends could learn about what's on an image
<jtaylor> libmagickcore5 looks like a decent candidate
<jtaylor> lets see what it uses it for
<micahg> jtaylor: are you coming to UDS?
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> stupid work always shedules my trips to be at the same time as uds or debconf ...
<jtaylor> and then the trip gets canceled to late for me to go ._.
<tumbleweed> micahg: that was the point of seeded-in-ubuntu
<micahg> tumbleweed: that just tells you if it's on an image, not which binaries/sources are reverse dependencies on an image
<tumbleweed> oh, I seew hat you mean
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: you have an avx cpu right?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: yup, my laptop does
 * tumbleweed probably shouldn't admit that, though
<jtaylor> :)
<tumbleweed> there's useful testing to be done without an AVX CPU, surely
<jtaylor> fftw has an extensive testsuite and really only does one thing
<jtaylor> avx is the thing I can't cover :/
<jtaylor> but it would be enough if you have the time to just run this: convert -fft /usr/share/doc/texlive-base/pdftex/manual/samplepdf/pic.jpg tmp.jpg
<jtaylor> or with any jpg
<jtaylor> but only when you have the time, its really not urgent
<micahg> jtaylor: what was the outcome of Bug #1069954
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1069954 in libav (Ubuntu) "Packaging issue : add alternative dependency libavutil-extra-51 to libavutil-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069954
<micahg> (not that bug specifically, but the issue as we discussed it before quantal's release)
 * tumbleweed can probably do that
<jtaylor> hm as I understood it wait until main universe distinction is gone
<jtaylor> I forgot to fix the yorick-av ftbs ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-23
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey geser
<iulian> Gooood morning Mr dholbach and Mr geser.
<dholbach> hey hey iulian :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we drop natty in the udt PPA?
<tumbleweed> yeah
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the other problem: oneiric should not have a higher version of  distro-info* than precise
<tumbleweed> bdrung: in the PPA?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes. the oneiric ppa version is higher than the archive precise version
<tumbleweed> you're right. But I'd kind of prefer to leave it as is
<tumbleweed> at least oneiric will go away in 6 months...
<bdrung> tumbleweed: but then people upgrade from the ppa to precise will have a problem
<tumbleweed> and then we're committed to maintaing distro-info in that PPA for the life of precise
 * tumbleweed prefers a little brokenness for people who can probably fix it themselves
<bdrung> tumbleweed: other solution: remove the distro-info* package in the ppa and backport the versions from precise
<bdrung> then the users have to downgrade the package now instead of later
<tumbleweed> presumably the damage is already done. I mean, which Ubuntu developers are still running oeniric
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you :p
<tumbleweed> naah, I run sid :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: not sid + experimental?
<tumbleweed> yes, that. And, in fact, wheezy right here, now
<dholbach> bdrung, funktioniert super fÃ¼r mich
<jpds> Verstehe.
<dholbach> is http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ broken for anyone? (for me it works)
<Laney> broken how?
<Laney> can't see any problems
<dholbach> bdrung mentioned that the page didn't load for him
<bdrung> firefox tells me "Fehler: Netzwerk-ZeitÃ¼berschreitung"
<Laney> ah, alles gut hier
<bdrung> every other page loads without problems
<dholbach> bdrung, do any other developer.u.c pages load for you?
<mitya57> funktioniert bei mir
<dholbach> wow, lots of German speakers here
<dholbach> I have to tell seb128, he'll like that ;-)
<bdrung> dholbach: you know that Germany have the second most DDs?
<dholbach> yeah, I read it somewhere before :)
 * mitya57 started learning German last week, so please don't count me :)
<bdrung> mitya57: your phrase was correct :)
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> yes, good work - if you learn that fast you should be perfect by the weekend :)
<mitya57> dholbach: the word "funktioniert" was copied from your phrase, I would never invent such a word myself :))
<dholbach> .-)
<dholbach> :-)
<cjwatson> funktionieren was always one of those words I thought couldn't possibly be right despite the evidence - sounds too Latin for German :-)
<bdrung> cjwatson: 1/3 of the German words are derived from Latin
<cjwatson> yeah, I know that really
<cjwatson> just wrong intuition
<cjwatson> I think I'm mostly sceptical of -ieren words because they always seemed like easy ways out in terms of bothering to learn vocabulary :-)
<c_korn> hello, I don't know if this is the correct channel to ask. but has anyone seen such a python import error before? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ZWSEygaj
<jtaylor> which distribition?
<c_korn> ubuntu 12.10 amd64
<c_korn> well this output was from 12.04 amd64 actually
<c_korn> but on 12.10 amd64 it is similar http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=BSnVsJt1
<jtaylor> why is it loading python3.2 from python2?
<c_korn> hum, good question
<jtaylor> jngl is no package?
<c_korn> it is a package I have built
<c_korn> this is the sconstruct file of the package: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ffVANsw3
<jtaylor> LIBS=Split("python2.7 boost_python-py32")) looks wrong
<c_korn> I applied this patch to make it link against python2.7 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=8F4B8kVA
<c_korn> should it better link against python3 ?
<jtaylor> is it a python3 package?
<c_korn> hum, I don't think so
<jtaylor> you could try just chaning boost to the 2.7 version
<c_korn> but as I see the problem does not occur when building the library with boost_python-py27
<c_korn> thanks, jtaylor
<effiejayx> hello all, I am wondering what I might be doing wrong when packaging this python library. I have separated the package into a core library and an application with a gtk interface
<effiejayx> the python gtk gui is not able to import the library, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1301158/
<effiejayx> but if I start a console session I am able to do the import
<jtaylor> the console session looks like a relative import
<jtaylor>  /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/libturpial/api/protocols/oauth.py really exists?
<effiejayx> jtaylor, it dies not
<effiejayx> does not
<jtaylor> well thats a problem
<effiejayx> ok
<effiejayx> I remember now
<effiejayx> it is erased via debian/rules to use python-oauth
<effiejayx> from the repos
<effiejayx> but the import still points to the old one, might need to patch
<jtaylor> then you need to patch the import to use the correct path
<effiejayx> okj
<effiejayx> thanks jtaylor
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-24
<ESphynx> hey guys, I have an explicit dependency to 'Depends: fonts-freefont-ttf' ... but installing the i386 package on a 64 bit system says fonts-freefont-ttf:i386 is not installable :(
<micahg> ESphynx: that's weird, it's arch all
<ESphynx> micahg: yes I assumed it would be!
<ESphynx> could it be that apt-get is being stupid?
<micahg> ESphynx: does apt-cache show fonts-freefont-ttf display it as such
<ESphynx> let me check. on another note VirtualBox guest additions doesn't support Quantal yet in latest version and that's depressing (no copy paste)
<ESphynx> It does say Architecture: all
<ESphynx> i didn't doubt that... it's just that installing an i386 package that depends on an :all package seems to expect it to be :i386 and doesn't recognize an all package as satisfying
<ESphynx> (And there's no way to force an install regardless of a dependency check failing? :()
<micahg> hrm
<micahg> Depends: fonts-freefont-ttf:any might help (but it really shouldn't be needed)
<RAOF> micahg: But you can't do that, right?
<ESphynx> had problems with :any before I think :P
<micahg> in the archive, no
<RAOF> You can't depend on specific-arch versions; dpkg doesn't have the syntax.
<ESphynx> I'd rather apt-get be fixed :P
<micahg> ESphynx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec#Dependencies_involving_Architecture:_all_packages
<micahg> right, so the font needs to be multiarch: allowed :-/
<ESphynx> micahg: So the problem is that fonts package should have Multi-Arch: foreign or Multi-Arch: allowed. added?
<ESphynx> fix it fix it fix it :P plz
<ESphynx> can't install ecere on Quantal 64 =(
<micahg> ESphynx: why are you depending on a font?
<ESphynx> micahg: yeah Ecere will either look very bad or not show any test at all
<ESphynx> any text*
<ESphynx> and I was trying to avoid that.
<micahg> ESphynx: it doesn't use the system fonts?
<ESphynx> it uses fontconfig to try to match fonts
<ESphynx> but it's its own GUI toolkit so it's rather low level...
<ESphynx> liberation-sans I think is the one that works nicely
<micahg> an IDE depending on a particular font certainly feels wrong
<ESphynx> :P it doesn't depend on a particular font...
<micahg> Depends: fonts-freefont-ttf
<ESphynx> but somehow in earlier versions (Of Ubuntu as well I think), fontconfig would bail and return no font at all...
<ESphynx> freefont is a font collection :P
<ESphynx> they're installed by default though :P
<micahg> right
<micahg> well, even depending on a font collection seems wrong
<micahg> (and the collection in installed by default)
<micahg> well, at least in Ubuntu
<ESphynx> yes it is...
<ESphynx> in Ubuntu
<ESphynx> but not in sid I think
<micahg> ESphynx: well, in theory dropping it to a recommends would fix the issue on Ubuntu
 * micahg wonders how it's installable on sid
<micahg> ah, it's in experimental
<micahg> still doesn't explain why it's installable
 * micahg guesses piuparts doesn't run on experimental?
<ESphynx> micahg: the font? it probably isn't... but I just tested in 32bit
<micahg> ESphynx: arch
<micahg>     i386 armel armhf powerpc all (from the PTS)
<micahg> ah, ok
<ESphynx> hmm?
<ESphynx> was that ecere arch?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> nevermind
<ESphynx> some sub packages are all...
<micahg> those won't be installable on amd64 either
 * micahg would suggest dropping the font to a recommends and make your arch: all packages Multi-Arch: allowed
<ESphynx> the other packages were fine
<ESphynx> They installed fine on 64bit before , with my PPA.
<ESphynx> (which didn't have the font thing)
<ESphynx> recommends won't automatically install it though, will it?
<micahg> oh, I guess they're not dependencies
<micahg> recommends are installed by default, but should cause an install to fail
<ESphynx> well they are dependencies
<ESphynx> so I should probably make them Multi-Arch: allowed ...
<ESphynx> that looks stupid to me though... I mean all , is all
<ESphynx> why would it not multi arch
<ESphynx> it's usually for docs and such
<micahg> ESphynx: because of dpkg internal magic
<ESphynx> LOL
<ESphynx> you put it nicely ;)
<ESphynx> will do
<micahg> ESphynx: also, your packages are dependencies of the sdk so they should fail in the same way the font is
<ESphynx> yeah I see that
<micahg> *you arch: all
<ESphynx> but they didn't, at least on Precise
<micahg> weird
<ESphynx> I installed them successfully off the PPA on Precise 64
<ESphynx> weird indeed.
<ESphynx> so I'll do both of your recommendations..
<ESphynx> but I'm a bit depressed with the state of the whole thing :| especially the lack of copy past in my VM
<micahg> ESphynx: 64 bit quantal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1301805/
<ESphynx> micahg: ah I guess that's the same thing?
<ESphynx> i got that too.. and then I tried to install ecere-dev:i386 manually
<ESphynx> and I got that font thing
<micahg> ESphynx: I'd also suggest dropping the samples and extras to recommends or suggests since I'm assuming the IDE works fine without them
<ESphynx> yes it does
 * micahg has the font since it's pulled in by xubuntu-desktop
<ESphynx> but then they make up the sdk
<ESphynx> one could just install ecere-dev =)
<micahg> ah, ok
<ESphynx> or libecere0 to run an Ecere app (which is the dependency for an Ecere ap)
<micahg> ESphynx: wait, if it's a
<micahg> oops
<ESphynx> if it's a ... ?
<micahg> I meant not to send that line :)
<ESphynx> ah =)
<ESphynx> ah well at least I'm not the only one pulling it in :P
<micahg> ESphynx: you might want to also check the length of your descriptions, they seem to wrap at around 55 chars
<ESphynx> I have it too installed, but it's just apt-get playing dumb
<ESphynx> 55 chars?
<micahg> (that fix wouldn't be good for an SRU, but would be good for raring)
<micahg> it's not as wide as a normal terminal (80 characters)
<ESphynx> A description fix you mean?
<micahg> yeha
<ESphynx> I was all confused with the description length thing
<ESphynx> and the space or 2 spaces before...
<ESphynx> https://github.com/ecere/sdk/blob/ppa/debian/debian/control
<ESphynx> that's my control file
<ESphynx> I auto wrapped them I think.
<micahg> ESphynx: you might want to run wrap-and-sort on it
<ESphynx> k
<ESphynx> If I can get copy/paste in Quantal, I'd like to do a new package and upload it to debian/unstable instead of experimental
<ESphynx> that can get pulled in for a SRU ? i've some bug fixes in there...
<ESphynx> also hoping to get the build further on ARM and PPC
<micahg> well, SRU rules are pretty strict, but if the bug fixes are auditable, it might be ok
<ESphynx> How strict are they?
<micahg> ESphynx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<ESphynx> "Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel)." and potentially FTBFS for ARM/PPC =)
<ESphynx> good to know the process =) thanks.
<ESphynx> also this 64 bit thing is likely the most important reason for a SRU...
<ESphynx> it's currently unusable :| major downer
<micahg> yeah, the control file changes (except for the description) should be fine
<ESphynx> K so I shouldn't change the description then?
<micahg> not for the SRU
<micahg> well, unless some SRU person thinks that's fine
<micahg> (since you're not changing any strings)
<ESphynx> I can still upload to debian/unstable first though?
<ESphynx> and file the SRU request as a sync from debian?
<micahg> ESphynx: well, if it's just for the control file change, I'd just prepare a debdiff for quantal and focus on the new version in unstable
<ESphynx> no it's for a new minor release with bug fixes
<micahg> well, either way, it's not a straight sync from unstable -> quantal, it would be a sync to raring and at best a backport in -proposed from raring
<micahg> that's if the minor release meets the SRU criteria
<ESphynx> e.g. https://github.com/ecere/sdk/commit/a0f37656a3f8d216bc42a3a3bcebeb1ac21bcab0
<ESphynx> k
 * micahg is not an SRU member
<ESphynx> hehe yeah, thanks for the help anyways ;)
<ESphynx> I have to get it in unstable first and then raring first :P
<RAOF> Note that we're more lenient for SRUs to Universe packages.
<ESphynx> ah... so RAOF is an SRU member =) good to know :P
<RAOF> Also, it looks like whoever wrote that code needs to be hit with a cluebat.
<ESphynx> when it's not universe it's...? :P
 * ESphynx wrote it
<ESphynx> :P
<RAOF> One does not simply write() structures to disc âº
 * ESphynx dodges
<ESphynx> back in the days when computers performed well you did :P
<RAOF> Because, as you've found, even when on exactly the same architecture, C does not guarantee the memory layout of your structure.
<RAOF> ESphynx: No, back in the days when I was programming on *win32* one did :)
<ESphynx> RAOF the whole sturct is __attribute__((packed)) though
<ESphynx> I still don't understand why GCC 4.7 gave me a hard time with that one.. but it sure did
<ESphynx> (that and a bunch of other things)
<StevenK> ESphynx: So, you run it with 32 bit and it writes out a struct. Then you re-install with 64 bit and read in that struct. And that's bad.
<ESphynx> and the struct is Swap() for big endian :P
<ESphynx> 64 bit? 32 bit/
<ESphynx> the size of the types are the same
<ESphynx> nothing bad there. just a bug in GCC 4.7 disregarding my attribute(packed), which I worked around :P
<micahg> ESphynx: it's a regression over precise
<micahg> (the arch: all handling)
<ESphynx> micahg: yeah looks like it
<ESphynx> you could say that of Quantal as well (apart from including ecere of course :P)
<micahg> Bug #1070672
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1070672 in apt (Ubuntu Raring) "Architecture: all packages no longer treated as implicitly Multi-Arch: foreign" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070672
<micahg> ESphynx: ^^ so you don't have to worry about an SRU (aside from your bug fixes)
<ESphynx> ah great! :) thanks a lot micahg!!
<micahg> ESphynx: thanks goes to pehjota in #multiarch on OFTC
<ESphynx> this is gonna get backported to Quantal soon right? :)
<micahg> slangasek: ^^
<slangasek> micahg: er, architecture: all packages are *not* implicitly multi-arch: foreign
<ESphynx> they were in Precise?
<slangasek> no, they were not
<slangasek> see follow-up to the bug
<ESphynx> slangasek: here I have a package that specifies a dependency on an 'all' package...
<ESphynx> and it fails to satisfy that dependency even though the package is obviously already installed?
<slangasek> correct
<ESphynx> now I can't install my software because of that :|
<ESphynx> i see that as valid, very annoying bug :P
<slangasek> well, you're mistaken.  This is defined in the multiarch spec.
<slangasek> the arch: all package needs to be explicitly marked Multi-Arch: foreign if it indeed satisfies cross-dependencies.
<ESphynx> slangasek: but when/why would an all package 'NOT' satisfy cross-dependencies?
<ESphynx> and in that case the bug is that fonts SHOUD specify Multi-Arch: foreign... but that's an annoyance, it should be default?
<slangasek> no, making it the default is not backwards-compatible, as defined in the spec
<ESphynx> Why wasn't I invited at the multiarch specs meeting :P
<ESphynx> I would have said to copy MS... they got it right before anyone had X64 CPUs!!!
<ESphynx> it has always been a breeze to run 32 bit software on a 64bit Windows
<RAOF> Mainly because you're expected to bundle all your dependencies on Windows :)
<ESphynx> RAOF : is that the reason? I always wondered.
<ESphynx> So anyways, I guess we're back to I have to switch to a recommends:
<slangasek> it's legitimate to ask for the dependent package in question to be marked M-A: foreign
<ESphynx> slangasek: package in question is font-freefont-ttf =)
<ESphynx> slangasek: the question though, is why was I getting away with this in Precise?
<ESphynx> my packages didn't have Multi-Arch: foreign either
<ESphynx> i.e. when you apt-get install ecere-sdk
<ESphynx> it depends on ecere-samples which is all, and not marked as Multi-Arch, and it would install on Precise 64
<slangasek> I know of no reason that Arch: all dependency handling would've worked any differently in precise
<dholbach> good morning
<cjwatson> ESphynx: The canonical example of why Architecture: all must not be considered to imply Multi-Arch: foreign is that of Python extensions.
<cjwatson> (As, I think, is mentioned in the spec.)
<cjwatson> Or possibly that's a slightly different case.  Haven't quite had enough coffee yet.
<Laney> first use of sponsor-patch fails
<Laney> bdrung: it looks like it doesn't consider the target of the upload in the changelog diff when downloading the source package?
<bdrung> Laney: good question. it downloads the source from the series of the bug report.
<obounaim> Hello everybody.
<obounaim> When I use pbuilder to create minimal environment for Ubuntu Raring I get "Unknown distribution".
<maxb> most likely you need an updated debootstrap
<obounaim> how to do it?
<cjwatson> sudo ln -s gutsy /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/raring
<cjwatson> for the meantime
<cjwatson> we'll get a backport together at some point
<obounaim> Would you please explain to me in more details why do I need to do this?
<cjwatson> Because debootstrap needs to know about the specific distribution it's bootstrapping, and we didn't even know the name of raring until too late to include that in 12.10's debootstrap package.
<obounaim> Ok but as I can see most of Ubuntu versions  are links to the gusty file, why?
<maxb> Because the same logic works
<StevenK> obounaim: Those scripts tell debootstrap how the Ubuntu release needs to be constructed, which hasn't changed since Gutsy.
<cjwatson> Indeed.  It used to be different, and it still might differ again in the future.
<obounaim> Ok thank you everybody.
<maxb> I once took a look at those old scripts. Annoyingly, most of the divergence appears to be formatting, with the occasional tiny functional change interleaved
<cjwatson> There were real functional changes, but it's probably easier to look at them in git.
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<Laney> bdrung: culmus> please make sure it's sent upstream
<bdrung> Laney: it was on my todo list to mail it
<Laney> ok
<bdrung> Laney: fix sent to upstream author
<Laney> merci
<Laney> worth noting in the bug
<bdrung> done
<micahg> slangasek: sorry about that, ISTR something about not wanting to update all arch: all packages to be Multi-Arch: foreign, but the outcome of that discussion could've just been to wait until it was needed
<slangasek> micahg: effectively, yes :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-25
<dholbach> good morning
<TheLordOfTime> ohai :p
<Rhonda> weeeelllll
<Rhonda> It's not like I predicted additional spam for changing the mail address on the packages.ubuntu.com website, but â¦ well, I was right. :)
<geser> how long did it take between rollout and more spam?
<Adri2000> Rhonda: by the way, on the french version it says "contact rhonda@ or debian-l10n-french@lists.debian.org". not sure it's a good idea to point to a debian mailing-list here
<Laney> Can syncpackage sync to a PPA?
<cjwatson> syncpackage can't, but copy-package (in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools) can.
<Laney> ta
<Rhonda> Adri2000: Well, the translation of the site is handled by that team, so it's not completely wrong.
<mitya57> dholbach, oops, I've only tried html and it worked
<mitya57> and your failure is with latex
<dholbach> you'Re right... that's what I did too when I tested it first :-/
<dholbach> another bug report for upstream then
<dholbach> it looks like we're the only users of i18n bits :)
<mitya57> dholbach, will you report the bug upstream?
<mitya57> =)
<dholbach> not now - I'm in the middle of 59 things for UDS right now - I just thought I'd reply to the mail earlier when I was in email mode
<dholbach> I hope I'll remember it later on
<mitya57> and I'm trying to do something with the raring failure, but still no success :(
 * mitya57 : sphinx â 0 : 2
 * dholbach hugs mitya57
 * mitya57 hugs dholbach back
<dholbach> mitya57, ÑÐ¿Ð°ÑÐ¸Ð±Ð¾!
<micahg> ScottK: for backports with source changes (debian dir in this case), do we sponsor as normal, or should I still be in the changelog signature line
<ScottK> micahg: Sponsor as normal.
<micahg> ScottK: thanks
<c_korn> hello, when I run debuild -S -sa in my schroot there is this error "Enter passphrase: can't connect to `/run/user/korn/keyring-9YH601/gpg': No such file or directory". I tried adding /run in my /etc/schroot/buildd/fstab file but it did not work. can someone please help me?
<c_korn> this is the file: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=BvjNQUcZ
<aboudreault> do you know this error:  ld cannot fin -lstdc++ ??
<aboudreault> trying to build a package in quantal
<jtaylor> install g++
<aboudreault> this probably come with build_essential, isn't?
<jtaylor> yes
<aboudreault> then it's already installed
<jtaylor> can you show the full error
<aboudreault> http://pastebin.com/XqAWppSV
<aboudreault> just added build-essential explicitly in the builddep... currently building
<jtaylor> why are you linking with gcc?
<aboudreault> ?
<jtaylor> if it needs stdc++ you should link it with g++
<aboudreault> hmm... not sure why everything was working in precise
<micahg> build-essential isn't meant to be in build-dependencies
<aboudreault> micahg, yeah, that's what I've noticed... so I tried with it explicitly
<micahg> aboudreault: build-essential is meant to be installed in the build env
<aboudreault> ha
<aboudreault> jtaylor, it works with gcc, but not with gcc-4.6
<jtaylor> you need to install g++-4.6
<aboudreault> but does with gcc-4.7
<jtaylor> or the accompaning libstdc++
<aboudreault> strange hack though :/
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> why should libstdc++ be included in gcc?
<jtaylor> its the C compiler after all
<jtaylor> if you want c++ use g++
<aboudreault> well, that stuff is generated by ruby stuff
<aboudreault> thanks for your help
<jtaylor> can we already sync to raring?
<cjwatson> jtaylor: yes, but you'll need to use 'syncpackage -r raring-proposed' until the next ubuntu-dev-tools upload
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-26
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> Hello, when I try to create a minimal environment with cowbuilder-dist I get the following errors messages "Invalid cross-device link" any ideas?
<Zhenech> dont try to create a cowbulder chroot outside of / :)
<Zhenech> well, on the same mountpoint
<obounaim> Zhenech, ok but what I don't understand is when I use pbuilder-dist everything works fine.
<jtaylor> cowbuilder uses hardlinks to do copy on write
<jtaylor> hardlinks only work within the same filesystem
<Zhenech> what jtaylor says :)
<obounaim> Zhenech, jtaylor, changing the BUILDPLACE and APTCACHE variables should solve my issue right?
<jtaylor> it should
<jtaylor> for which distribution are you creating a chroot?
<obounaim> precise and raring
<jtaylor> because raring does not work for me either
<jtaylor> the others do
<jtaylor> there is something different there
<obounaim> may be you should run "sudo ln -s gutsy /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/raring"
<jtaylor> done that
<jtaylor> my profile apparmor also doesn't like raring ._.
<obounaim> ok
<jtaylor> syncpackage -r raring-proposed shows me the whole changelog not only the new stuff, is that normal?
<Laney> fixed in bzr
<ScottK> jtaylor: Just change ubuntu_pocket to 'Release' in line 373 if it's bothering you.
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> it also does not check seen to for ubuntu changes without that fix
<ScottK> Should probably SRU it too then (quick)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-27
<ahayzen> cjwatson, ping
<Logan_> Hey, so - when do merge proposals on Launchpad start being considered for Raring?
<quidnunc> Can I use backportpackage on a ppa package?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-28
<quidnunc> Why do I get a different RSA key when downloading snapper source (apt-get source) than what is listed at the ppa?
<epikvision> join #ubuntu-meeting
<trijntje> Hi all, I would like to get a package into ubuntu (not into debian). It's a package which is used to build customized/localized iso images for ubuntu
<trijntje> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-defaults-nl-team/ubuntu-defaults-nl/ubuntu-defaults-nl
<trijntje> there are already two similar packages present in 12.10: ubuntu-defaults-zh-cn, ubuntu-defaults-it
<trijntje> what kind of changes would I have to make to have the package accepted?
<demonfire> http://brig.co
<highvoltage> sudo powertop
<highvoltage> ah that's where that went
<highvoltage> btw I'm downstairs outnumbered by linaro guys so if anyone is around already please come down :)
 * micahg waves to highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey milli
<highvoltage> micahg, even :)
<ssweeny> hrw, ping
<jtaylor> goodby natty chroot, you were my favorite codename :(
<hrw> ssweeny: pong
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-21
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hey
<Laney> tumbleweed: seeded-in-ubuntu seems sad: IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 111] Connection refused
<wgrant> Laney: Apologies, some maintenance on that host took a bit longer than expected.
<wgrant> It's been back for a while now
<Laney> Works now
<Laney> thanks for the boot
<bregma> hey folks, I have a package I want to NEW into universe but I'm confused about the next step to take: I filed an RFP, I have a branch ready and built in a PPA, so what's next?
<mfisch> bregma: you need a sponsor, let me get back to you about next steps in 15 mins if thats ok
<bregma> I'm nothing if not patient
<Laney> I assume it can't go to Debian?
<bregma> someone else has got a Debian ITP, but he's not likely to find a sponsor there, he hasn't been in contact with upstream, he hasn;t responded to my queries, and I'm aiming to get this particular package in early in the Trusty cycle with an eye to getting it in main
<bregma> if and when it gets into Debian, we can start synching then
<dholbach> jtaylor, not sure if you tweet, but I noticed that you replied on a couple of keepass2 bugs - do you know what to reply to https://twitter.com/DigitalGrinch/status/391572684372328448?
<mfisch> debian is the best route to take if possible bregma
<mfisch> does anyone know if the "Packaging branch status" field when branching is supposed to be accurate?
<mfisch> Wesnoth says CURRENT but it's got a lucid version in bzr
<shadeslayer> stgraber: thanks for sbuild-launchpad-chroot :)
<stgraber> hehe, np, I figured it'd be useful to quite a few other developers ;)
<shadeslayer> yeah, I recently found out that pbuilder allows shipping files in /usr/local while sbuilder craps out and for the longest time I didn't understand why
<shadeslayer> subtle differences in pbuilder and sbuilder apparently
<shadeslayer> so its nice to have something is even closer to launchpad in terms of building stuff :D
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: No, it has nothing to do with sbuild (which is not spelled sbuilder).  It's more likely that you have pkgbinarymangler installed in your sbuild chroot.
<cjwatson> shadeslayer: Since the pkgsanitychecks script in pkgbinarymangler enforces this check.
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> dh_builddeb.pkgbinarymangler: dpkg-deb --build debian/mintsources .. returned exit code 1
<shadeslayer> indeedly
<mfisch> and to answer my own question, wesnoth is current because it was renamed to wesnoth-1.10 after lucid, both trees are current.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-22
<mfisch> micahg: ping
<micahg> mfisch: pong
<mfisch> micahg: hey a quick question, the package epic4 has a verion of -build1 and -build2 and I'd not seen that before
<mfisch> the reason was rebuilds, but is that a normal practice?
<micahg> mfisch: usually not with those versions, let me see
<mfisch> they're 2 years old so maybe it changed
<micahg> oh, yes indeed
<micahg> mfisch: dch -R
<micahg> it's used for no change rebuilds where Ubuntu has no diff
<micahg> -XbuildY where X is the Debian revision
<mfisch> but then it doesn't seem to be autosync'd anymore
<micahg> it should be autosync'd in that case
<micahg> the only thing that would block it is blacklist or ubuntu in the version string
<micahg> mfisch: my guess is we're syncing from testing if that helps any
 * micahg is a bit behind on mail
<mfisch> debian has 1:2.10.2-1 in testing and unstable
<micahg> mfisch: it's been syn'd
<micahg> *sync'd
<mfisch> well there it is
<mfisch> this webpage I'm looking at is out of date
<mfisch> thanks for solving the mystery micahg ;)
<micahg> Colin sync'd it yesterday
<mfisch> this page must not refresh until it hits trusty: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/mdt/universe.html
<micahg> not sure how often Ubuntuwire updates (IIRC it used to be once daily)
<Laney> micahg: testing> nah, not true
<cjwatson> micahg,mfisch: "blacklist" in the version doesn't inhibit autosync; that's just the "ubuntu" substring
<hakermania> How can I kindly request the removal of a package of mine from USC ?
<sladen> hakermania: what is the package?
<sladen> hakermania: perhaps we can ask the person who uploaded it for the background
<hakermania> sladen, It is wallch. It has buggy functions and it doesn't seem to work properly under 13.10, in general.
<hakermania> I am the uploader.
<sladen> hakermania: are you Leon Vitanos?
<hakermania> sladen, nope, I am Alex Solanos.
<hakermania> In debian/control: XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Alex Solanos <****@gmail.com>
<sladen> hakermania: okay, I can see both of you listed in   https://launchpad.net/~wallch/+members#active
<sladen> hakermania: so, if you are sure that it would be better to remove/hide it from USC or the archive altogether, please could you file a bug stating and subscribe 'ubuntu-archive'
<sladen> hakermania: try to give some high-level context, and clearly state why it would be better to remove it
<hakermania> sladen, The process of including Wallch in the repos was painful. Updating it to a newer version was much easier (I just gave a PPA). Will including the newer version of Wallch (4.0) into the repos be equally painful as re-adding it from scratch ? (Sorry, I am not very fond of the complete process)
<geser> hakermania: are you trying to remove it from Ubuntu at all or only from 13.10?
<cjwatson> We don't remove packages from stable releases, generally
<cjwatson> Since that would require effectively republishing the release
<hakermania> geser, from 13.10. It seems to have some problems: http://i.imgur.com/y6kNz8h.png
<hakermania> cjwatson, I see. So sladen is wrong?
<cjwatson> He's correct for the development relese (trusty), incorrect for 13.10
<cjwatson> *release
<geser> hakermania: can't it get fixed with a SRU?
<cjwatson> Indeed, this is a simple enough package, surely it can be corrected in a stable update
<cjwatson> We're not talking deep system integration here
<hakermania> cjwatson, does a SRU  include updating all the systems (back from 12.04 till now?) ?
<hakermania> systems/releases
<sladen> "clearly state why it would be better to remove it *[because it is very unlikely to be done]"
<cjwatson> Only if the older versions are broken too
<cjwatson> sladen: impossible without infrastructure changes
<sladen> cjwatson: precisely
<cjwatson> Launchpad forbids modifying the release pocket after release, for good reason
<cjwatson> We would probably do it for a cease-and-desist letter (but we'd be extremely reluctant to ever deal with the person/organisation who sent such a thing again)
<hakermania> cjwatson, The stable update is not ready yet. It isn't finished. Thus, I think that we will develop the 4th version of the program and upload it to 14.04. Will the previous releases be updated automatically, then?
<cjwatson> hakermania: No
<cjwatson> hakermania: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<cjwatson> You'll need to backport targeted fixes for just the critical problems
<cjwatson> Can't be that hard for a simple wallpaper app
<hakermania> cjwatson, I think that we will prepare 4.0, include it in the repos for 14.04 and do an SRU for some previous systems (maybe 13.04, 13.10), then.
<hakermania> The SRU will include the 4th version.
<hakermania> Is there a process for hiding the application from USC?
<Rhonda> waaaah
<dereck> Does this sync request look ok?: http://goo.gl/vrdFzI
<cjwatson> dereck: We won't sync it to raring or saucy - this sort of thing should only be for trusty
<geser> dereck: syncs are only possible for "trusty". For "raring" and "saucy" only SRUs or backports are possible
<cjwatson> dereck: stable releases are maintained according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<cjwatson> Let me check that the latest upload includes my change
<dereck> cjwatson: it doesn't appear to include your patch directly, but I tested that build command that you said failed and it didn't spit out any errors at least
<cjwatson> dereck: you ran that command on Ubuntu?
<dereck> raring
<cjwatson> dereck: ok, let me double-check
<dereck> cjwatson: I built the .debs from the upstream github, installed them, and ran that command.
<cjwatson> Yeah, that's not necessarily an interesting test
<cjwatson> I'll actually test-build the source package on trusty
<dereck> alright then, thank you. :)
<cjwatson> dereck: No, the new package in Debian doesn't build in Ubuntu.  It needs the same or a very similar patch.  I'll do a merge.
<dereck> i'm curious, why does it build locally for me, but not for you? how can I reproduce this to understand the problem?
<TheLordOfTime> before I go bashing my head against a wall, what's the series name i have to enter in debian/changelog for t-series?  (since i missed a name announcement or something)
<dereck> I'll try to get your patch pulled upstream
<dereck> trusty
<TheLordOfTime> dereck: thank you kindly.
<dereck> TheLordOfTime: it's not often that I can be useful in these parts :D
<TheLordOfTime> dereck: heh
<cjwatson> dereck: I used sbuild
<cjwatson> dereck: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
<dereck> cjwatson: thanks, I'll poke at it :)
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: where has that wiki document been the past couple years, i've wanted to move to sbuild from pbuilder for a while now o.o
<Laney> porthose: hey, any chance of a newer rhythmbox-ampache in Debian?
<Laney> With py3 compatibility for the new rhythmbox
<porthose> Laney, on the todo list
<Laney> okay
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: I think it was only written fairly recently
<cjwatson> dereck: so I'm happy to deal with a merge for now
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: and it works?
<dereck> cjwatson: ok, thank you.
<TheLordOfTime> because i'd love to use sbuild instead of pbuilder, i've had weird obscure errors in pbuilder before that don't happen in PPA builders (as an example)
<dereck> cjwatson: and do I need to submit an SRU on launchpad for S & R?
<cjwatson> dereck: Only if there are fixes that fall within the stable release upload policy and that are backportable - i.e. not a new version
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: I use sbuild all the time; I did it before that document existed but it's pretty similar
<dereck> cjwatson: well the problem is that the existing version is missing features and the entire python API. We also don't intend to support 2.7, so it seems to make sense to me at least. :)
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: the question is whether it works or not, the main reason for that is because i get obscure pbuilder errors
<TheLordOfTime> (some of the time)
<TheLordOfTime> and nobody knows how to resolve them, so... :P
<cjwatson> dereck: those don't sound like stable-update changes to me
<cjwatson> we don't generally add features to packages in stable releases
<dereck> actually, what about a backport? I think that's where the current release is sitting anyways. :/
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: Yes, sbuild works excellently IME
<cjwatson> dereck: sounds better
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson: awesome.  :)
<dereck> :) I'll read up on this proceedure now then
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-23
<micahg> infinity: is there a reason why you didn't just make a new backport for precise-backports for debootstrap (apologies if I'm beating a dead horse)
<infinity> micahg: Yeah, because re-backporting it every time is silly.
<infinity> micahg: Not when people also insist on SRUing it anyway.
<micahg> infinity: did you remove the version from backports then?
<infinity> Was planning on it.
<micahg> it's useful if someone wants features, I assume the backport was for features
<infinity> No, the backport was just for the symlink.
<micahg> yeah, that should've been an SRU then, <shrug>
<infinity> There, removed from backports.
<micahg> thanks
<micahg> I usually end up with the problem that updating the seeds usually wants a newer debootstrap each time
<mfisch> looking at a merge and finding out that it can be a sync is the best part of my day...
<micahg> I'm still on precise on my main machine
<infinity> I tend to just grab the .deb from the devel release and install it on older releases.
<infinity> It's arch_all after all, and Just Works.
<micahg> I usually end up with a local backport, but that's probably just as good of a solution
 * micahg fires up a trusty chroot
<mfisch> micahg: do you get email notifications of new packages in the repos?
<micahg> yes
<mfisch> micahg: where do you sign up for that?
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/trusty-changes
 * mfisch checks the archive
<mfisch> so I've managed 3, only 487 more to go to catch up with Colin ;)
<ScottK> mfisch: Worry more about making them good than how many there are.
<mfisch> ScottK: heh, I'm not worried either way, I just enjoy doing it
<dereck> where do I submit bugs for the arm64 compiler on launchpad?
<mitya57> dereck: What do you mean by "arm64 compiler"? We have the same compiler everywhere i.e. gcc.
<dereck> that is to day that a build on launchpad failed with an 'internal compiler error: Segmentation fault'
<dereck> and it asked to submit a bug report, but doesn't mention where :)
<cjwatson> dereck: Don't submit bugs for those, they're hardware problems
<cjwatson> dereck: Just give us the .../+build/... URL and we'll sort it out - or alternatively you can ignore it and we'll sort it out in bulk once arm64 has caught up
<dereck> 10-4, thanks
<dereck> it's not particularaly important to me, but I thougth i'd report it in case someone cared: +build/5150148
<cjwatson> dereck: I'd need the full URL
<dereck> cjwatson: http://goo.gl/T450jj
<cjwatson> dereck: retried, thanks
<cjwatson> (in fact I had mail about that, I just hadn't processed it yet)
<dereck> Just for curiosity's sake, you say it's a hardware issue?
<cjwatson> Yes
<dereck> do you have a link to more info on what casues that, or do you know what it is by chance?
<cjwatson> I'm not able to talk about the hardware in question right now
<cjwatson> Suffice to say it's pre-release and occasionally a bit shaky
<dereck> :D fair enough.
<dereck> I'm surprised launchpad doesn't just use cross-comppilers rather than native builds. why is that, if I may?
<cjwatson> A retry is usually sufficient; failing that, birch is a slightly newer model and does better
<cjwatson> dereck: About a third of packages in Ubuntu main can be cross-compiled cleanly
<cjwatson> dereck: This is a massive step up from where we were five years ago, but it's still very far from where we'd need to be to use it across the board
<cjwatson> dereck: And even at that, some packages can't be cross-built without leaving some things out - anything that builds executables and then attempts to run them as part of its build, which is a lot more common than you'd think
<cjwatson> dereck: For example, gtk-doc generation currently requires running the built binaries in a special mode
<cjwatson> (AIUI; I haven't looked closely at that particular case but it comes up a fair bit)
<dereck> That's quite interesting, thanks. :)
<cjwatson> dereck: Oh, and of course you often can't run test suites during the build if you're cross-compiling, which would be a serious problem for QA
<cjwatson> dereck: So I don't expect we'll ever use cross-compiling in the general case, although we'll probably make more use of it in some special cases as time goes on
<dereck> once KVM supports arm64, could you run the build process in there with a performance hit?
<cjwatson> In short, not practical for a full distribution
<cjwatson> dereck: User-mode qemu is very shaky in our experience; for example anything that uses threading tends to fall over, so the stack above Qt loses badly
<cjwatson> dereck: We might use that for PPAs, but not for the primary distribution
<dereck> good to know :)
<cjwatson> In any case, the hardware we're building on now is pretty nice when it isn't segfaulting; it should be great once the bugs have been shaken out
<cjwatson> I'm not keen to go back from that to qemu
<dereck> I agree hardware is the best option, I was only curious. :) And surprised that you have access to it honestly. :)
<dereck> Is there anything I can do to help advance bug 1243310
<ubottu> bug 1243310 in saucy-backports "libaria2 2.8.0 from Debian jessie Main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243310
<dereck> Is there anything I can do to help advance my pet bug 1243310?
<ubottu> bug 1243310 in saucy-backports "libaria2 2.8.0 from Debian jessie Main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243310
<Laney> dereck: There's no source package called libaria2 - do you mean libaria?
<Laney> What you need to provide us with is confirmation that the package you want to backport builds (without chanages), installs cleanly and runs on the target releases.
<dereck> Laney: I fixed up the request, does that look better?
<dereck> I also built the package locally and it's working fine. But cjwatson applied a patch to the ubuntu source that he says is required.
<Laney> dereck: We backport from Ubuntu releases.
<dereck> I don't really know much about that patch honestly.
<Laney> So we can't take a Debian package (and it probably wouldn't work due to this patch).
<Laney> You need to check the package from trusty builds/installs/runs as I just outlined
<dereck> Ah, that makes sense then. I need to grab the Trusty source and build it locally then?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> on all the releases you want to backport to (chroots can help you here)
<Laney> possibly together with a PPA
<Laney> the backportpackage script can help you prepare the package
<Laney> s
<dereck> ok, now that I have a better idea of what needs doing I'll hammer at it ^.^ Thanks@
<Laney> No problem
<lfaraone> Laney: wow, the backports team is fast :)
<Laney> you got us on a good day :P
<lfaraone> yesterday too!
<lfaraone> much appreciated.
<Laney> when requests are well-formed straight off it's so much easier
<Laney> I have much less energy to chase up bad ones
<dereck> Laney: this backportpackage script rocks! :3 Thanks for the tip~
<dereck> Laney: I have finished building on each target distor without any problems, I think it's solid.
<Laney> dereck: okay, please check it works a little bit too (light testing) and then post your results to the bug report
<dereck> what's the best way to do that? It's a robot interface library, so I would have to install each distro on a robot to test really?
<dereck> I have been using this code on raring for a couple days without any problem, is that good 'nuff?
<Laney> dereck: Just post up what you've got and we'll see :-)
<dereck> Laney: Updated with my results *fingers crossed*
<jalcine> Question about packaging:/b 105
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-24
<mfisch> was launchpad ever called "Malone"?
<mfisch> I found some old changelog entries that say "closed Malone: #xxxxx" and it's an LP bug #
<StevenK> mfisch: The Bugs component of Launchpad is Malone, but nowdays that's really only an internal name.
<mfisch> interesting, thanks
<cjwatson> mfisch: I think that old name was my fault.  (See "Bugsy Malone")
 * ogra_ wasnt aware we still use it 
<cjwatson> See scrollback
<cjwatson> It's in old changelogs
<ogra_> well, StevenK claims its an "internal name" :)
<cjwatson> Well, yes, that too
<cjwatson> But no reason you should be aware if you don't hack on LP :)
<ogra_> heh, indeed
<Rhonda> Totally missed the release.  %-/
<Rhonda> Hmm, the saucy release didn't obsolete any older release?
<Rhonda> Was the lifetime of precise extended with respect to former releases?
<Rhonda> oneiric was obsoleted by raring, why doesn't saucy obsolete precise â¦
<Unit193> 5 year LTS.
<Rhonda> bleh
<Rhonda> of course, totally overlooked the LTS part.
<Rhonda> Unit193: Thanks for helping me think. :)
<Unit193> Sure. :)
<geser> Rhonda: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases the next EOL are Jan 2014 (raring), April 2014 (quantal) and July 2014 (saucy)
<Rhonda> geser: Right, that's the information I looked at. :)
<Rhonda> Wait a moment.  Is july 2014 for saucy really proper?
<Rhonda> I would expect April 2015?
<Unit193> Normal releases are 9 months now.
<Rhonda> Since saucy
<Rhonda> Interesting.
<maxb> Which leads to the oddity of raring EOLing before quantal
<Rhonda> maxb: Ah, so since raring, indeed.
<mfisch> cjohnston: thanks for that info. I was wondering if there was really a bug tracker called Malone but the bug number matched LP so a rename made sense
<mfisch> five digit bug # too
<cjwatson> YM cjwatson
<Rhonda> We need to prepare a saucy update for ejabberd.  Current version in saucy is 2.1.10-5ubuntu1
<Rhonda> What version shall we choose?  trusty-proposed has 2.1.11-1
<Rhonda> Ah, wait, it's stuck in trusty-proposed because it doesn't carry the -ubuntu changes  *checking*
<geser> Rhonda: it still needs building on powerpc before it can transtion to trusty
<Rhonda> So it would automatically transition to trusty?
<Rhonda> I just checked, the ubuntu diff isn't needed anymore.
<geser> yes
<geser> it's like in unstable -> testing but without the waiting time and RC bug check
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration for the rules
<cjwatson> ejabberd will probably be fine, the powerpc builders are just a bit behind
<geser> Rhonda: I'd say the saucy SRU should be 2.1.10-5ubuntu1.1 (the usual SRU scheme)
<Rhonda> geser: Thanks. :)
<dereck> Good morning all, Is there anything I can do to help resolve bug 1243310 ?
<ubottu> bug 1243310 in saucy-backports "Please backport libaria 2.8.0 from trusty to saucy, raring, quantal and precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243310
<dereck> Good afternoon all, Is there anything I can do to help resolve bug 1243310 ?
<ubottu> bug 1243310 in saucy-backports "Please backport libaria 2.8.0 from trusty to saucy, raring, quantal and precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243310
<Laney> dereck: I or someone will get to it in the next few days
<Laney> no need to remind :-)
<dereck> Laney: Alright, I just wanted to make sure I was done with my end of the work. :) Thanks
<sebikul> Hey there! I'm a contributor to the Gambas(gambas.sf.net) project. I'm looking for a MOTU sponsor to update the gambas3-* packages avalable in the official repositories. Those where imported from debian, and although the maintainers where contacted, we received no response from them.
<sebikul> There is a PPA with the latest version, so the packages are already available. I'm looking at updating those older packages as they are broken and badly packaged.
<sebikul> How should i proceed?
<TheLordOfTime> sebikul, if it exists in Debian have Debian update the packages, then they can be synced to Trusty whenever debian syncs are opened, i think.
<TheLordOfTime> (I'm not MOTU, i'm just making an observation)
<TheLordOfTime> typically getting the package updated in Debian is best... not sure if MOTU will approve a delta from Debian for this package though.  (since it's MOTU's call)
<sebikul> I know updating the debian packages is the best course of action, but we have already tried to contact them and received no response. We get a lot of bug reports from people using Ubuntu with these older packages, which are almost a year old and several milestones behind
<sebikul> At least as a temporary fix....
<Noskcaj> sebikul, Where have you contacted debian guys? pkg-gambas-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org ?
<Noskcaj> TheLordOfTime, We have a fairly large diff already
<TheLordOfTime> Noskcaj, REALLY?
<TheLordOfTime> whoops caps
 * TheLordOfTime looks at changelogs
<Noskcaj> well it's ubuntu8
<Noskcaj> I didn't check the logs
<Noskcaj> So i don't think debian are too ctive
<TheLordOfTime> Noskcaj, ignoring the package delta, i was focusing on the major version
<TheLordOfTime> not the package revision thing
<Noskcaj> ok
<TheLordOfTime> either way, AIUI, the updated version would hit Trusty, and not the older releases, right?
<sebikul> We have contacted one of the mantainers directly, as he is a member of the gambas-users list. I'm not sure if someone else made contact with another maintainer. I will send an email now and wait for an answer, but i'm not expecting one
<dereck> Since I have been working on something similar recently: The workflow is to land the latest code in debian -> merge/sync from debian to Trusty -> backport to previous versions of ubuntu if desired.
<TheLordOfTime> dereck, if desired / if possible.  not all software cleanly backports
<dereck> sebikul: you may be able to contact any debian maintainer and help keep the package up to date IIRC
<dereck> you don't nessiarally need the original maintainer, although that's the best way. :)
<dereck> TheLordOfTime: true dat.
<TheLordOfTime> (case in point, come next debian sync to trusty, nginx won't cleanly backport because build-deps)
<sebikul> Well that's great! Just to make sure; if packages are updated in debian unstable. Can they be backported to older Ubuntu releases?
<TheLordOfTime> oop lag, missed you saying "true dat"  :)
<TheLordOfTime> sebikul, it can be requested
<TheLordOfTime> sebikul, if you ping me i'll take a look and see if it builds on older releases
<TheLordOfTime> as build-deps and such are sometimes a problem
<TheLordOfTime> (i'm not MOTU, but I volunteer my sbuild setup to test building)
<TheLordOfTime> from there, the backports procedures are relevant.
<sebikul> TheLordOfTime, That's great. Thanks a lot for your help. I will come here once everything is fixed on the Debian side, hopefully. Thanks again!
<TheLordOfTime> sebikul, i do suggest you read up on the backports process here though
<TheLordOfTime> because building is only part of the confirmation it'll work :P
<TheLordOfTime> i think that's all at this page... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
<TheLordOfTime> but i dunno since my links were lost with my old system :/
<TheLordOfTime> either way i'll volunteer to test-build the package.
<sebikul> TheLordOfTime: Thanks again ;)
<TheLordOfTime> yep
 * TheLordOfTime goes to testbuild nginx builds before pushing them to the staging PPA for the nginx team
<cjwatson> Noskcaj: don't go by the number alone.  most of those revisions are rebuilds.
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, exactly the point i was making, a version delta outside of rebuilds/package patching might be more significant
<Noskcaj> yep
<TheLordOfTime> hence how we said "Fix it in Debina first"
<TheLordOfTime> Debian*
<cjwatson> I entirely agree
<cjwatson> just wanted to say that I had actually *looked* at most of those 8 Ubuntu uploads and the bulk were rebuilds
<Unit193> And then there are things like debian-installer, where some revs may be the exact same fix.  So the date on the bin may not mean anything, and the current one may be close to the one in Ubuntu.  Another reason to get it in Debian, you won't hold up auto-syncs that way.
<Noskcaj> I agree
<TheLordOfTime> speaking of autosyncs when's the next autosync with Debian for universe packages?
<Unit193> Heh, what I'm wondering is when cryptsetup can be sync'd. :P
<TheLordOfTime> i'm curious because i want to make sure the nginx 1.4.3 gets in from unstable, with its build-dep (although its build dep is sufficient for Saucy and later so far)
<TheLordOfTime> and unless i'm mistaken there's an autosync from Debian normally
<Unit193> TheLordOfTime: It won't technically autosync since it has the Ubuntu branding.
<TheLordOfTime> Unit193, ehhh, it should be synced and then a patch applied to reapply the branding, 1.4.3 > 1.4.1
<TheLordOfTime> and honestly i think that delta solely for the Ubuntu branding isnt' needed...
<TheLordOfTime> somewhat good idea, yes.  blocking for sync, not really.
<Unit193> Not automatically.
<TheLordOfTime> i don't know of any Ubuntu specific delta in that... :/
<TheLordOfTime> ehhh, maybe i'll do what i normally do, post a sync request
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: Err ... every six hours
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: And nginx 1.4.3 is *already* in, manually merged by me
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, ah, i missed the merge information then. ^.^
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, thanks for that btw :P
<cjwatson> The Ubuntu branding shouldn't be dropped, but should be forwarded to Debian in such a way that it's applied conditionally
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, agreed, but Debian's maintainers don't really care about the Ubuntu branding, but if you want to give me details to give them i'll do that in the next bug i send their way
<cjwatson> i.e. ifeq (yes,$(shell dpkg-vendor --derives-from Ubuntu && echo yes))
<TheLordOfTime> since i'll be on the debian BTS later
<cjwatson> would need a bit of work to adjust NGINX_VER of course; you could look at what I do in openssh
<cjwatson> (I don't care that much, the merge effort is trivial for me)
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: autosync is running non-stop.
<xnox> Unit193: cryptsetup needs manual merging, since we do it quite differently on ubuntu (the initramfs / boot steps)
<Unit193> He's stalking me. >_>
<Unit193> Yep, read the changelog.
<TheLordOfTime> Unit193, heh
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, cool, didn't know, although cjwatson manually merged it because of the ubuntu branding delta, apparently
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, out of curiosity, do you know if that "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" thing was fixed?  Back in 10.* it was an issue for a few backports i requested... curious if it was ever resolved.
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: find the bug report on launchpad and check. I think it was fixed.
<xnox> but I don't usually do backports =)
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, true, but it was a general repo builder thing i think
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: no, it was not.
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: and when i say check launchpad I mean launchpad.net/launchpad bugs in launchpad itself =)
<TheLordOfTime> wait it was a launchpad specific bug? o.O
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: That's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/888665; IIRC it winds up being closely related to upgrading launchpad-buildd to use a modern sbuild
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Triaged]
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, looks like that bug was deescalated in favor of another bug...
<cjwatson> That's fairly irrelevant
<TheLordOfTime> but was this fixed was the question
<cjwatson> You can tell it wasn't because the bug is still open
<TheLordOfTime> (doesn't look it)
<cjwatson> Escalation was for back when Launchpad had ~25 developers rather than ~2
<TheLordOfTime> heh
<cjwatson> That said, we've been getting a fair bit of buildd work done of late, and that one is relatively high on the list
<cjwatson> If only because running with a nine-year-old sbuild fork is boring
<TheLordOfTime> so, fixed in the relatively near future?
<cjwatson> Can't promise but I still hope so
<TheLordOfTime> i hope so too, this one person emailed me asking if nginx is easily backportable and it's not because 888665
<TheLordOfTime> (has another runtime and build-dep dependency that needs to be backported)
<TheLordOfTime> only place older releases can have newest nginx is in the nginx team PPAs :/
<TheLordOfTime> newest stable*
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-20
<TheClitCommander> rww, whats up
<TheClitCommander> !ops
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-24
* mitya57 changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Utopic released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
<mitya57> (s/Trusty/Utopic/)
<MosesEX> rww, nooo waaa
<MosesEX> !ops | nooo waaa
<ubottu> nooo waaa: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<MosesEX> !ops | noooo waaaaa
<ubottu> noooo waaaaa: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<dholbach> MosesEX, ...
<MosesEX> yay
<rww> dholbach: hfsplus, has too much time on his hands
<MosesEX> rww, actually i mutitask =D
<rww> MosesEX: what do you do when you're not wasting time on IRC?
<MosesEX> rww, bible
<MosesEX> contend for the faith
<MosesEX> against heretics
<MosesEX> cults
<MosesEX> jude 3
<MosesEX> try to get people out of hell
<MosesEX> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+17%3A23-34
<dholbach> MosesEX, that's off-topic here, please stop it
<MosesEX> dholbach, i dont care?
<dholbach> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-25
<dupondje> Whats the easiest way to replace a patch with quilt ?
<dupondje> If I replace the file, and then do 'quilt refresh' it gets overwritten again?
<jtaylor> change it in the series file
<dupondje> filename etc is the same, its just an adjusted patch
<dupondje> so just want to replace the patch file in debian/patches/
<Noskcaj> dupondje, quilt pop, do changes, quilt push, quilt refresh?
<dupondje> well don't want to change the patch manually
<dupondje> got an adjusted patch upstream, just need to replace the current one with that one
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-26
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<ubottu> help channel emergency: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<ubottu> help channel emergency: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<ubottu> help channel emergency: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<ubottu> help channel emergency: Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<GoldFish> yay
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<GoldFish> !ops | help channel emergency
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I read all pages about motu, but I did not understand how to setup pbuilder
<alo21> can someone help me us, please :)
<Ampelbein> alo21: At what point do you have troubles?
<alo21> Ampelbein: I do not understand how to set it up with vivid
<alo21> here I am
<alo21> I would like to create pbuilder with vivd inside, and not thar
<alo21> how can I do this?
<jtaylor> pbuilder-dist create vivid
<jtaylor> or some permutation of that
<mitya57> pbuilder-dist vivid create
<alo21> mitya57: I got this: pbuilder-dist: Warning: Distribution data outdated. Please check for an update for distro-info-data. See /usr/share/doc/distro-info-data/README.Debian for details.
<mitya57> alo21: Make sure that you have distro-info-data 0.23
<Rhonda> alo21: What always works is create the release before that, then --login --save-after-login, change the sources.list to read vivid instead, and --udpate
<alo21> Rhonda: done thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-19
<Unit193> micahg: Poke.
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-20
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-21
<dholbach> good morning
<jtaylor> can you make a local multiarch repository that provides amd64 and i386?
<jtaylor> just using deb file: ... does not work
<jtaylor> also with deb [arch=amd64,i386]
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-22
<dholbach> good morning
<sidi> I want to extract lists of all the executables/scripts in all Ubuntu packages. I reckon identifying binaries isnt hard (just gotta find the files with +x permissions), but i'm curious how I can efficiently parse all of Ubuntu's repos... is there an equivalent to ArchLinux's abs?
<rbasak> sidi: no idea what abs is, but maybe the apt-file command is what you want? Or at least you can see how it gets its information.
<rbasak> Contents-amd64.gz etc.
<sidi> rbasak, that'd do half of the job most likely. i'm currently trying to figure out if https://apt.alioth.debian.org/python-apt-doc/library/apt_pkg.html can get me a list of all packages
<rbasak> A list of all packages?
<rbasak> grep-dctrl on /var/lib/apt/lists/... will give you that.
<sidi> rbasak, thanks :-)
<frankS2> Hi, requesting processing of https://launchpad.net/~frhnk/+archive/ubuntu/pound
* Unit193 changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Wily released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-23
<dholbach> good morning
<sidi> Rethorical question: there's no way to know, looking at the contents of a .deb package, which files will be given the executable flag once the package is installed? I have to actually install the package and manually check the files' permissions, correct?
<rbasak> sidi: know for certain, or just get an idea? Most files shipped in debs already have their executable bits set. But it is in theory possible for a package to set or remove the bits in a package postinst.
<rbasak> That would be an odd thing to do in most cases though.
<rbasak> "set" as in "decided", not "set to 1".
<mitya57> sidi, use dpkg -c foo.deb
<mitya57> It will show the files permissions
<sidi> (damn, pressing Ctrl+W to erase a word in Xchat does not work as expected)
<mitya57> <mitya57> sidi, use dpkg -c foo.deb
<mitya57> <mitya57> It will show the files permissions
<sidi> rbasak, sorry i missed your last message
<rbasak> sidi: know for certain, or just get an idea? Most files shipped in debs already have their executable bits set. But it is in theory possible for a package to set or remove the bits in a package postinst.
<rbasak> "set" as in "decided", not "set to 1".
<sidi> thanks
<rbasak> That would be an odd thing to do in most cases though.
<rbasak> (change things int he package postinst)
<sidi> mitya57, rbasak so i can just download all the debs and grep on top of dpkg -c, that'd work for me I believe
<sidi> rbasak, i'll gladly ignore postinst changes if that's not the usual method for setting permissions. i can fix my list of executables later on for individual packages
<rbasak> Yep, that should give you a pretty good view. There are probably a few edge cases where files on an installed system don't end up with the same permissions as shipped in the package, but that is probably fairly rare.
<sidi> I mainly want to avoid manually doing it for tens of thousands of packages :-) that should be fine
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-24
<Unit193> Logan: Lots of work upstream in Debian, should make dropbear sync'able.
<Logan> Unit193: hmm, unconvinced that everything's there
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-26
<gerry_> Hi I have written a desktop app in java and packaged it in to a  .deb I have uploaded it to the debian-mentors but had no reply to sponser it would submitting it to Motu be a good alternative?
<geser> finding a motu sponsor probably won't get easy either
<gerry_> ok the only other alternative I suppose it to make it into a snap
<gerry_> *is
<highvoltage> gerry_: have you tried the #debian-mentors channel? and please share the link to the package on mentors.
<highvoltage> ah I guess it's highlighterpdf id you're gerry webster
<gerry_> yes thats it
<highvoltage> gerry_: I've had good success recently filing RFS (request for sponsorship) bugs, but it's a good idea to make sure your package is lintian clean first
<highvoltage> gerry_: for now it has some big problems, for example, it contains a prebuild java object
<highvoltage> gerry_: it's probably a good idea to work through those problems one by one and ask for specific assistance where you need it
<gerry_> ok thank you for your reply
<gerry_> it only came up with something from lintian when I made it unstable to be able for the upload to work
<highvoltage> gerr<tab>
<gerry_> hi highvoltage was trying to give me some advice on uploading my program to debian-mentors are you still here?
<highvoltage> still here
<highvoltage> gerry_: so, your source package must contain the source code for highlighterpdf. and should build the .jar file for your binary (.deb) package
<gerry_> oh good sorry about that got interrupted. so the classes etc in netbeans not all bundled in a jar file?
<highvoltage> gerry_: yep.
<gerry_> oh ok I will start again I have had so many problems over something that seems so simple I have felt like giving up thank you for your help
<highvoltage> gerry_: I'd suggest going through https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/ch04.en.html just to get the basic concepts right. otherwise, it might be helpful looking at source packages of other java projects, and if you ask specific questions here or on #debian-mentors and you hang around long enough, then you should get good answers
<gerry_> ok thank you I will
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-27
<Rhonda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ needs to get edited for yakkety release
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> Would people expect the search default for packages.ubuntu.com to be xenial or yakkety?  xenial is the last LTS release, yakkety the current one.
<rbasak> I think more users are using Xenial. As a developer, Zesty would be more helpful to me that Yakkety I think. So I'd say Xenial.
<rbasak> than Yakkety
<Rhonda> You think most users rather stick with the LTS release than upgrading in between?
<rbasak> Perhaps I'm biased by triaging server bug reports.
<rbasak> And perhaps Yakkety users are the users more likely to use packages.u.c vs. Xenial users.
<Pici> fwiw, we typically default ubottu's !info calls to the latest release.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-10-30
<jcfp> any reason why new versions of packages without an ubuntu delta aren't getting synced from debian?
<jcfp> for example https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfoview is at 1.19-1 is zesty while https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/nfoview shows launchpad aware of the newer version 1.20-1 in debian
