#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-22
<saintsjd> New to ubuntu development and I would like try making my first package. There is a specific package in debian called postgis. Currently it requires postgresql 7.4.  I would like to experiment creating a new postgis-8.0 package for postgresql 8.0.  Is there any way that I could use the current package in debian to begin my work on Ubuntu?
<mgalvin> saintsjd: sure get the source for the debian package and read the debian new maintainers guide on how to work on the package http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<mbreit> good night everybody
<ajmitch> night mbreit
<mbreit> night ajmitch
<saintsjd> mgalvin, thanks. I will get the source and read the guide. Thanks! Do you have any tips from your past experience?
<kezz> Hi, I've been using Ubuntu for quite a while now and would like to help out with some packaging. Is there an uptodate list anywhere of anything that urgently needs doing? I noticed there was a feature request on the wiki, is this up to date?
<ajmitch> UniverseCandidates is the list of requested packages
<ajmitch> MOTUTodo is the general list of things to do :)
<kezz> ah ok
<kezz> i'll keep on reading, its not tremendously clear though ;)
<ajmitch> no, it's something we need to work on
<Tzi> G'day =) There's a patch for Anjuta to fix the display corruption issue (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=303353) which I think should be added in..
<Tzi> I've made some of my own debs, but I'm told it's not hard to get the patch put into ubuntu
<Tzi> (Actually I should probably hold my toungue till this latest dist-upgrade completes, just in case it's fixed... But I doubt it..)
<Tzi> I'm talking about Breezy, btw
<Tzi> Nope, it's still broken after the dist-upgrade
<Tzi> So.. Who do I talk to about getting the patch applied?
<Tzi> Well I gotta go but I'll leave this open.. Let me know =)
<tseng> man smeg rocks
<theantix> it really does, yeah :-)
* xhaker is away (Away, bnc logging)
<Tzi> For the sake of convenience, I'll just re-post my question..
<Tzi> There's a patch for Anjuta to fix the display corruption issue (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=303353) which I think should be added in..
<Tzi> I've made some of my own debs, but I'm told it's not hard to get the patch put into ubuntu
<Tzi> Who do I talk to about getting the patch applied?
<crimsun> make a debdiff against the current Breezy packages; post the url here; I'll take a look.
<Tzi> Okay, just a minute
<Tzi> Gahhh... Anyone know how to burn 701mb on a 700mb cd with nautilus?  overburn is on in gconf, but it's still refusing...
<Tzi> Okay, next question - How do I do a debdiff?
<crimsun> same way you generate a diff, but the arguments you pass to debdiff are the two debs.
<Tzi> File lists identical (after any substitutions)
<crimsun> if you have the diff.gz you used to generate your patched deb, I'll take that
<ajmitch> Tzi: debdiff name1.dsc name2.dsc
<Tzi> I tried that too =)
<Tzi> it's okay, one sec
<Tzi> http://tzidesign.com/anjuta-1.2.3-2.diff
<Tzi> That okay?
<crimsun> sec.
<crimsun> ok, so against -1 in breezy. I'll test-build.
<ajmitch> version, distribution & urgency are wrong in changelog
<Tzi> That's just what I put in for the debs I'm using so dist-upgrade didn't keep replacing anjuta with the broken version.. Set it to whatever it needs to be, I have no idea what the protocol is
<crimsun> it needs to be -1ubuntu1
<crimsun> distribution would be breezy
<ajmitch> -1ubuntu1, breezy, and we don't use the urgency field
<crimsun> urgency would be low
<Tzi> Sounds good
<ajmitch> urgency is only high in debian under certain circumstances
<ajmitch> because of the unstable/testing split, which we don't have
<Lathiat> what does it mean?
<Tzi> Does sound a little subjective =)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: urgency=low means 10-day delay into testing
<Tzi> Ahh
<Lathiat> and high = ?
<ajmitch> 1 or 2 days, iirc
<Lathiat> cool
<Tzi> So d'you want me to fix the changelog and re-upload the diff?
<ajmitch> someone can correct me on that
<Lathiat> close enough, i get the idea
<ajmitch> fyi, 1.2.4-1 is in unstable & has the fix anyway
<crimsun> if it's the only fix, we can just patch 1.2.3-1 and up it
<Tzi> Okay, sure
<ajmitch> crimsun: sure, then you need to drop the patch next time merges come round
<Tzi> Well up to you.. Anjuta's pretty useless without it, from what I've seen, and from what others are saying
<crimsun> a sync from sid is probably easiest
<crimsun> Tzi: your call, since you provided the patch.
<Tzi> What's involved in syncing from Sid?
<ajmitch> asking elmo to sync
<Tzi> Okay, so that means we get Sid's Anjuta, which may have the same problems, right?
<ajmitch> whether by irc or by mail
<ajmitch> Tzi: I just said, latest version has the patch
<Tzi> Ah, missed that bit
<crimsun> (http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/a/anjuta/anjuta_1.2.4-1/changelog)
<crimsun> (offtopic, but I dig that new layout)
<Tzi> Probably worth syncing from Sid then, I reckon.. May have other fixes too.. As long as it works properl =)
<Tzi> +y
<crimsun> I'd ask for a sync from Sid, since it appears 1.2.4-1 fixes not just that issue
<Tzi> Okay, sounds good to me
<Tzi> Shall I get onto elmo, or will someone else?
<crimsun> (you should)
<Tzi> Okay
<Tzi> Okay, way too much effort.. What's his email address? =)
<crimsun> james.troup@canonical.com iirc
<Tzi> Cheers =)
<ajmitch> I thought normal procedure was that a sync request had to come from a MOTU, especially since it's one that will break version freeze?
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey
<siretart> hi
<siretart> any arch gurus here?
<siretart> how to checkout this: http://pkg-lyx.alioth.debian.org/devel/
<ajmitch> siretart: baz register-archive pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel
<ajmitch> baz get pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel/lyx--head
<ajmitch> or something similar :)
* ajmitch hasn't used baz enough :)
<siretart> Error during call to `vu_chdir' for pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel (No such file or directory)
<ajmitch> ah, silly me
<Treenaks> it's baz register-archive http://etc.
<ajmitch> siretart: baz register-archive http://pkg-lyx.alioth.debian.org/devel/
<Treenaks> then baz archives to get the list :)
<Treenaks> then baz rbrowse -A pkg-lyx-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org--devel
<Treenaks> etc.
<ajmitch> Treenaks: thanks, I'm rusty ith baz, been playing with bzr ;)
<Treenaks> "bzr" is pronounced "bizarre" ? :P_
<ajmitch> of course :)
<ajmitch> what will be bazaar 2.0
<siretart> * archive rweir@ertius.org--2004-debian is not registered
<siretart> PANIC: The requested revision cannot be built.  It is based on archives that are not registered.
<siretart> :(
<\sh> morning
<pef> hello
<siretart> hi pef
<siretart> huhu \sh
<pef> siretart: hi
<Yagisan> When marking up the xml for a man page, can I put special characters (eg TM) in like when marking up html ?
<SloMo_> Yagisan: sure... the <productname> docbook tag adds it for example... but at least for me the tm isn't converted correctly to iso-8859-1 and is displayed incorrectly
<Yagisan> G'day SloMo_, that's good. I need to put a few TM in, I use UTF-8 encoding myself
<SloMo_> me too but manpages must be iso-8859-1 afaik... at least that is what docbook converts them to
<SloMo_> but the xml can be utf8, it gets converted automatic
<Yagisan> then manpages are broken.
<ogra_> Yagisan, cant you just avoid the (tm)
<ogra_> ?
<Treenaks> Yagisan: special characters in manpages can be done
<Treenaks> Yagisan: using special escapes
<Yagisan> ogra: It's a Doom(tm), engine, that takes its arguments in Windows(tm) format
<Treenaks> Yagisan: people.debian.org/~branden/talks/wtfm
<Yagisan> Thanks Treenaks, it didn't see this when googling
<Treenaks> \(co is copyright
<Treenaks> so I _guess_ \(tm might be trademark
<ogra_> Yagisan, where is the problem using (tm) there instead of a special char ?
<SloMo_> hm then the real question is, why docbook doesn't do this by default
<Treenaks> Yagisan: there's a list in man 7 groff
<Treenaks> Yagisan: search for \\\(co
<Yagisan> ogra_: I just wanted to markup to the right character, to save any potential headaches.
<ogra_> is it worth the headaches you produce for yourself now ?
<Yagisan> it looks like the same headache I get when trying to produce multilingual websites. Probably not worth it in this case.
<ogra_> :)
<Yagisan> it will be good when it is all utf-8 though
<Yagisan> anyway, back to writting the only correct documentation for my package
<siretart> how to disable this control.in madness in cdbs?
<siretart> I forgot it :(
<siretart> ah, got it. never mind
<Seveas> Can I suggest a security update for hoary universe in here?
<siretart> Seveas: you should talk to the security team, I think Nafallo is a member
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> Nafallo, around..?
<Nafallo> pong :-)
<Seveas> hi :)
<Nafallo> hi :-)
<Seveas> tor in hoary universe is a version that contains sever security bugs
<Seveas> (it's been reported by 3 people in the last 30 minutes in #ubuntu)
<Nafallo> wow!
<Seveas> I backported the package from debian unstable
<Seveas> clean backport, just needs the libevent1 from breezy
<Nafallo> I actually thought I did fix that a while ago.
<Nafallo> seems I forgot it :-/
<Seveas> hehe
<Nafallo> Seveas: what is you mail-address?
<Seveas> dennis@kaarsemaker.net
<Nafallo> Seveas: you will have mail any second ;-)
<siretart> Nafallo: how is hoary-universe security working? how many ppl are involved and what is the update policy?
<Nafallo> siretart: I am... ;-)
<Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com//SecurityUpdateProcedures
<Nafallo> :-)
<siretart> ah. I see
* siretart subscribes to security-review :)
<Nafallo> yay! :-D
<Yagisan> :) someone else on security-review
<Seveas> Nafallo, <aol>You've got mail!</aol>
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> Seveas: okey to forward to security-review? :-) pitti should have a word in this.
<Seveas> Nafallo, be my guest
<Nafallo> gaah, damn xchat. switched to another desktop :-P
<Nafallo> Seveas: sent :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, if nothing else, at least the package in breezy should be updated, preferably the hoary one too of course
<Nafallo> Seveas: we have that flaws in breezy aswell?
<Seveas> yes
<Nafallo> gaah
<Seveas> the breezy version is not uptodate
<Seveas> I had to take the debian sources
<Mez> did slomo get his upload rights sorted yet?
<Mez> obviously not, his last upload was signed by siretart
<Seveas> gah, apparently I am subsribed to security-review already :)
<Treenaks> UK->EU plug adapter.. 9 euros.. wtf?
<Nafallo> Seveas: hehe :-)
<Mithrandir> Treenaks: can't you just replace the cord which goes into the power supply?
<Treenaks> Mithrandir: costs the same
<SloMo_> Mez:  thanks for the dirac upload :)
<Mez> SloMo_, no probs
<Mez> katie process it ok?
<SloMo_> yes... "dirac_0.5.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW"
<Nafallo> yay
<Mez> well, we knew that
<Mez> but I'm sure it'll be processed soon enough
<rbelem> morning...
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Nafallo> hi sistpoty :-)
<rbelem> hi sistpoty
<SloMo_> hi sistpoty
<rbelem> hey Nafallo
<rbelem> Nafallo, morning
<rbelem> ;-)
<Nafallo> morning rbelem :-)
<SloMo_> hi rbelem :)
<rbelem> morning SloMo_  ;-)
<rbelem> i'm having some problems  to create a debian/rules using cdbs
<SloMo_> rbelem: just ask here ;)
<rbelem> the problem is that i have to create a python package called python2.4-ixplib, but the folder is a subfolder ;-) and how do i set where must create this package?
<rbelem> something like that $(DEB_BUILDDIR)/libixp/python/
<rbelem> how do I set the place where setup.py is?
<rbelem> morning kiko
<SloMo_> rbelem: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2515628
<rbelem> SloMo_, I already tried the DEB_PYTHON_BUILD_ARGS option, but the same error occurs
<SloMo_> what error?
<rbelem> cd . && python setup.py build --build-base="./libixp/python/"
<rbelem> python: can't open file 'setup.py': [Errno 2]  No such file or directory
<SloMo_> DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD := libixp/python/setup.py
<SloMo_> maybe
<SloMo_> (don't know much about python packaging ;) )
<rbelem> hum... ;-)
<rbelem> cool ;-)
<rbelem> i'll try it now
<kiko> hey rbelem
<kiko> where is setup.py defined?
<rbelem> hey kiko
<rbelem> kiko, setup.py is in libixp/python/
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> that would need to be
<kiko> well
<kiko> you could actually do
<kiko> cd ./libixp/python; python setup.py build
<kiko> does that work for you?
<rbelem> it works for the previous way, pkg
<rbelem> something like that
<rbelem> cd ${CURDIR}/libixp/python; \
<rbelem> ${MAKE} clean; \
<rbelem> python2.4 setup.py build; \
<rbelem> python2.4 setup.py install --root=${CURDIR}/debian/python2.4-ixplib
<rbelem> SloMo_, i tried with this "DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD" option, now the error is gcc: ixplib.c: No such file or directory
<rbelem> hey kiko
<siretart> hi
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> breaking UVF for getting a package built and reinstallable is a valid reason, is it? ;)
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<rbelem> kiko, do you know a parameter where setup.py will search for dependencies?
<kiko> rbelem, where is ixplib.c?
<kiko> this looks very wrong
<siretart> sistpoty: I did some uploads in UniverseUnmetDeps, I guess you got some mails
<sistpoty> er... yes
<siretart> ok
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> :)
<rbelem> kiko, humm... i'll look for
<rbelem> kiko, i didn't find, but when i do cd libixp/python/; python setup.py build it works
<rbelem> kiko, when i type python libixp/python/setup.py build  the error occurs
<kiko> rbelem, as I said above, you should cd into the directory -- what is the problem with that?
<rbelem> kiko, i don't know where put this with cdbs
<kiko> where is seb128?
<kiko> rbelem, join #ubuntu
<rbelem> kiko, is there a parameter like --root=${CURDIR}/debian/python2.4-ixplib to specify where the setup.py can find the files?
<kiko> there may be, seb128 will know
<rbelem> kiko, SloMo_ : i have a class now. i have to go
<dholbach> hellas
<Nafallo> dholbach: morning :-)
<\sh> hey dholbach
<ogra> holla
<dholbach> i handed in my thesis! ROCK'N'ROLL! :)
<ogra> yay
<\sh> dholbach: so u r in berlin on the 3rd :) GREAT!
* ogra applauds dholbach 
<dholbach> \sh: i think so :)
<dholbach> thanksssssss :)
<\sh> dholbach: and congrats :)
<SloMo_> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> now only waiting for the last exam result and the "defending of the thesis" and i'm set :)
<dholbach> hey slomo :)
<dholbach> SloMo_: nice work on the wiki page :)
<dholbach> yay for epiphany :)
<SloMo_> hm, i only fixed a typo, nothing more ;)
<dholbach> ah ok :)
<Nafallo> dholbach: you get mail when I edit SwedishTeam*, right? ;-)
<dholbach> yes :)
<SloMo_> but i would support that ;) i don't like firefox... but in that case it only makes sense when we get a libgecko or something which is independent of firefox/mozill
<Nafallo> lol
<dholbach> SloMo_: ++
<SloMo_> Nafallo: he gets email when anything on the wiki changes ;)
<dholbach> ok boys, i'm off to the do-it-yourself-market
<dholbach> see you around
<dholbach> *wave* :-)
<SloMo_> waaah... hopefully he comes back in a few hours ;)
<Yagisan> ogra: ping
<ogra> Yagisan, pong
<Yagisan> ogra: I have a package, that is not in Debian or Ubuntu, but comes from a 3rd party repo
<ogra> nice
<Yagisan> it has already got several revisions
<siretart> Yagisan: where is it?
<ogra> in revu ?
<Yagisan> yes
<Yagisan> Now, I've been told it needs an -ubuntu vesrion suffix
<Yagisan> look for deng in revu
<ogra> if you made ubuntu specific changes to it, thats true
<siretart> Yagisan: ah, you are jamie jones, then ;)
<Yagisan> now, I'd like people to be able to upgrade from the 3rd party repo to ubuntu
<Yagisan> yep - thats me :)
<Yagisan> I actually AM the upstream repo
<siretart> Yagisan: whats the version in your 3rd part repo?
<Yagisan> currently 1.8.9+1.9.0beta2-5
<siretart> Yagisan: in that case, I'd suggest that you prepare an upload with version 1.8.9+1.9.0beta2-5ubuntu1
<SloMo_> and except the versionnumber the package seems alright now (when he uploads his local version ;) )
<siretart> SloMo_: yes. but since the package is not in debian yet, it really should have *ubuntu* in its version
<siretart> Yagisan: this is to prevent the syncing scripts to sync from debian should a package with the same name appear there
<Yagisan> hmm,
<siretart> Yagisan: you are sceptic?
<Yagisan> I can change it, but the -ubuntu will go on the version in REVU so the existing beta2-7 will update
<Yagisan> and I get a clean upgrade from th public side
<Yagisan> No, not sceptic
<Yagisan> I just don't want to break the migration of beta testers, and the public repo
<siretart> Yagisan: err, you told above that the latest released revision of your package is -5?
<Yagisan> public is -5, several system have the -7 in revu
<siretart> Yagisan: err, your testers grab packages directly from revu?!
<Yagisan> nope, I sent it out before revu
<siretart> since they have to build them anyway, I wouldn't care that much. those you can build packages, can also downgrade ;)
<siretart> well, if you want to support also -7 installations, then upload with revision -7ubuntu1
<siretart> no problem
<Yagisan> No probs. (I just would rather not break things)
<Yagisan> now, you may have noticed my large suggests line
<Yagisan> how much space do you have in revu ;)
<siretart> Yagisan: I hope revu will move soon
<siretart> revu is about 2gb, have to do some cleanups
<siretart> Yagisan: where do these *-installer packages come from?
<Yagisan> siretart: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.html
<Yagisan> I have to update them now deng is policy compliant
<Yagisan> same with the data packs
<siretart> Yagisan: are these freely distributable?
<Yagisan> installers yes, data packs non-commercial so multiverse
<siretart> that would be awesome to have them in breezy :)
<Yagisan> I'd love to have them in brezy
<Yagisan> brb - baby trouble
<SloMo_> ok... i'm leave now until tomorrow ;) Yagisan, you'll get my vote tomorrow when you've uploaded the fixed version :) and as tomorrow is review day try to upload as much from the suggest stuff as possible ;)
<Yagisan> SloMo_ 300MB+ ??!!??
<siretart> I'm not sure if those *-installer packages should be in Suggests, but I don't se any valid reasons against
<siretart> Yagisan: what is the plan for the near future, which packages shall follow after 'deng'?
<Yagisan> the installers, then the jdoom model packs, jdoom textures, jdoom ui
<Yagisan> followed by jheretic versions, then jhexen versions
<Yagisan> the installers put the .wad file in the right spot, and create a menu entry
<Yagisan> you must already own a wad file, and I can make an installer for the shareware wad
<Yagisan> no commercial wads are distributed.
<sistpoty> the screenshots look awesome!
<siretart> Yagisan: ok. do you intend to get them im debian, too?
<Yagisan> You should see it when it's fully kitted out with whats in my repo
<Yagisan> yes
<Yagisan> but ubuntu first, as I use ubuntu on my desktops
<Yagisan> when it goes to debian it will be in non-free which isn't really debian
<siretart> are you DD?
<Yagisan> no
<Nafallo> -ENOAMD64 :-(
<siretart> then you'll most probably have problems finding a sponsor anyway
<Lathiat> Nafallo: heh
<Yagisan> Nafallo: soory, it's not 64bit clean
<siretart> Nafallo: I think Mithrandir can help you with that ;)
<siretart> oh. jdoom not 64bit clean? :(
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: I have a breezy+1 goal for you ;-)
<siretart> er, s/jdoom/deng/
<Yagisan> deng has 3 "parts" jdoom, "jheretic", jhexen"
<Nafallo> it would however be nice to have it amd64 clean for SFD ;-)
<siretart> Yagisan: just curious, how do they relate?
<Lathiat> wow havent played those games in...
<Lathiat> a looong time
<Yagisan> deng is the core engine, jdoom, jheretic and jhexen are plugins
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: is multi-arch breezy+1 goal btw? :-)
<siretart> I see
<Yagisan> to play doom, you load the jdoom .so
<sistpoty> btw.: does anyone happen to know something 'bout the idouts-dir on the id-software ftp?
<Yagisan> sistpoty: no
<Yagisan> it also helps with a DFSG problem
<sistpoty> id has released doom and some other games there, but i couldn't do anything with the exe-files in there
<Yagisan> I found the 64bit problem a while ago, and have tried a few patches from upstream
<sistpoty> but i don't think, it's allowed to redistribute these
<Yagisan> but it need a bit of work, and upstream is finishing his masters
<Yagisan> so no major updates until northern hemisphere autumn
<Nafallo> Yagisan: where lives upstream? :-)
<Yagisan> finland
<Nafallo> I was hoping on Sweden :-). Ericsson, death metal and doom would have been a great combo ;-)
<Yagisan> anyone comapring the website I posted, and my suggests list will notice the package lists don't match
<siretart> Yagisan: Did I understand that correctly, you are upstream of deng?
<Yagisan> no
<Yagisan> I am upstream packager
<Nafallo> upstream finland, packager australia :-)
<Yagisan> yep
<Yagisan> I've been separating the resource packs, for smaller downloads of what the user would like
<siretart> ah. I see
<Yagisan> I've got a fantastic reportbug setup on those packages
<Yagisan> if it breaks, it grabs everything needed to help fix it
<siretart> Yagisan: I hope you don't intend to upload 300mb to revu ;)
<siretart> Yagisan: in that case, I think we should handle your packages in another way. I think we can process them with the ExpandingUniverse task, without revu
<Yagisan> siretart - no, sources only should be much less then that
<siretart> ok
<siretart> but I expect that packages are very similar, yes?
<\sh> back
<siretart> wb \sh
<Yagisan> It is about 240MB of source but I expect to trim that, and most of it turns into arch -all
<Yagisan> packages are rather similar
<siretart> Yagisan: puh. thats still way too much to process them conviniently with revu
<Nafallo> atleast deng builds on amd64
<Yagisan> siretart: I know, but core engine needs to go in first
<siretart> jupp
<Yagisan> siretart: everything else is just data
<siretart> I'm waiting for your new upload with *ubuntu* in its version :)
<Yagisan> Nafallo, build yes, run no :( (I have amd64)
<Yagisan> sireatart: it will arrive once I fix some lintian overides
<Nafallo> let's see what goes wrong :-).
* Nafallo runs again with --pkgname-logfile
<bddebian> Howdy
<\sh> siretart: ping...u worked on vflib3?
<siretart> \sh: sorry, I dont think so
<\sh> ok...I had this bug on my bum anyways
<siretart> ok
<Nafallo> how do we normally solve warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size?
<Nafallo> s/int/long/ ?
<siretart> Nafallo: that happens to work in many cases
<Nafallo> I know. but is it clean for !64-bit to? :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: it depends every time on the case. most probably, the code should get a review
<\sh> Nafallo: yes
<siretart> Nafallo: yes
<\sh> Nafallo: int == long on 32bit
<Nafallo> \sh: ahh, nifty :-)
<\sh> at least on x86 ,-)
<Nafallo> I get lots of those in deng ;-)
<siretart> there are some developers which assert sizeof(void*) = sizeof(int). thats definitly broken and should be fixed
<Nafallo> yay! 293 of those errors ;-)
<siretart> Yagisan: how many traffic do you expect from your deng/jdoom mirror?
<siretart> many or much? hmm
<siretart> alisher: ?
<Yagisan> siretart: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/analog.html
<\sh> ah did I say on hoary: suspend to ram and hibernate is working even with hotkeys?
<siretart> Yagisan: how big is it?
<Yagisan> my mirror is my home adsl line
<Yagisan> gets quite a few hits perday
<Yagisan> and a huge spike when I release a new version
<Yagisan> (and I'm in Australia, do you know how slow internet is here!)
<\sh> Yagisan: u need space and bandwidth?
<Yagisan> only until the core gets into ubuntu
<siretart> Yagisan: well, I think I could mirror some files for you at tauware.de. perhaps sh can, too
<\sh> no prob...
<Nafallo> Yagisan: you could change Architecture: any to !64-arches :-)
<Yagisan> thanks. After I've done some work on the packages, I'll clean the repo up, and then we can set up some rsync magic
<\sh> siretart: 4TB freetraffic from next month on :)
<siretart> \sh: sounds great :)
<ogra> YAY
* ogra looks at a new working shiny nvu
<\sh> ogra: yeah...for this month i've alread 230GB, last month it was 400GB ,-)
<\sh> u don't name the "mozilla dreamweaver crap" ? ,-)
<ogra> thats a bit more then the 2G hwdb draws every month :)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: Will do, anyone want to build it on all other arches :)
<ogra> \sh, i do... its my worst headache .... its a edubuntu requirement and i have to push it to main
<\sh> ogra: my condolences
<ogra> heh... to late, already fixed
<Yagisan> Nafallo, so what exactly should I put in the arch line for !64nit, but everything else
<Nafallo> i386, ppc I guess.
<Nafallo> maybe sparc and hppa to? ;-)
<jamessan|work> isn't ppc 64bit?
<Yagisan> anyone with a spacr or ahppa want to test :)
<Yagisan> no, ppc is 32bit
<jamessan|work> I thought the powerbooks were
<jamessan|work> hrm
<Yagisan> ppc64 is different
<jamessan|work> ah, ok
<Yagisan> kernel 64bit, userspace 32
<Yagisan> last time I checked there was no advantage in ppc64 over ppc
<Yagisan> dumb question time. how do I override a heap of "binary-without-manpage" errors from lintian
<jamessan|work> write manpages  ;)
<Yagisan> not for libs!
<Yagisan> internal libs, used only by deng, in deng directory
<jamessan|work> why do you have a lib that's being detected as a binary?
<Yagisan> most likely because the path to it is /usr/games/deng/lib
<siretart> Yagisan: the sparc port is 32bit, too
<siretart> ah, never mind
<\sh> so sparc32
<\sh> Yagisan: shlib magic
<Yagisan> sparc32 is the arch line ?
<\sh> we don't support sparc, right?
<siretart> Yagisan: /usr/games/lib/deng? where have you seen that?
<siretart> Yagisan: I feel its wrong and should rather go to /usr/lib/deng, but I can be wrong, too
<Yagisan> siretart: path is /usr/games/deng/lib
<Yagisan> deng would rather dump it all in /usr/lib
<Yagisan> ick
<siretart> Yagisan: which seems to me more sane.. I'm not sure if /usr/games/.../lib is right
<siretart> Yagisan: but feel free to ask in #ubuntu-devel
<Yagisan> well, while in theory other apps could use the libs, in practice nothing does
<Yagisan> that and the libs would not work with other versions
<\sh> siretart: remember this pacman clone?
<siretart> \sh: pacman clone? sorry?
<\sh> siretart: the package I made the last time?
<\sh> dunno the name anymore *lol*
<siretart> \sh: aaah, sure
<siretart> \sh: is it already uploaded?
<\sh> i don't think so
<siretart> I remember.. what was the name
<siretart> something with n
<siretart> njam?
<\sh> yes :)
<siretart> ah :)
<\sh> I have to get it from my rootie
<siretart> :)
<\sh> but first i have to fix this vflib3
<\sh> re
<derek> are there plans for a newer hula package?
<ogra> derek, herzi did the last one for us, i dont know if he prepared a new one
<ogra> there was not much response or inteest in it it in the last release seems...
<Nafallo> siretart, \sh: how is long handled in windows? the package is for both operative systems
<derek> ogra: alright, i was just wondering, thanks
<\sh> Nafallo: same
<Yagisan> Nafallo: and mac
<\sh> Nafallo: but win32!=win64
<ogra> derek, if you want a new one, poke herzi :)
<Yagisan> win64 should be different
<derek> ogra: bit that big of a deal, i just use it for play, not mature enough for my email server yet :)
<Nafallo> if int should be long we should just have to edit the files then ;-)
<ogra> hehm thats what i hear everywhere
<ogra> :)
<derek> another question i have is with jabberd, are you all familiar with it?
<ogra> derek, \sh's country :)
<\sh> whats up with jabberd
<\sh> 1 or 2?
<derek> \sh: either or
<derek> i have a usage question
<derek> i want to deploy it in my small company
<derek> and i want a global buddy list (so everyone is on everyone else's
<derek> )
<derek> is that possible
<\sh> yes/no ,-)
* sistpoty is AWAY at 20:16:02 : tv
<derek> \sh: GREAT answer :)
<\sh> without jabberadmin work no ways :)
<\sh> u can have shared rosters yes, but u have to put them into the roster by hand
<derek> hmm, alright
<\sh> I would say, tryout ejabberd
<\sh> I'll tell you why:
<\sh> jabberd is old and in the next couple of months obsolete
<\sh> jabberd2 has some pitfalls and issues with utf8
<\sh> ejabberd is written Erlangen, but works out of the box .. the config is != XML and it has a build in webadmin featureset and even http polling
<derek> ok
<derek> how easy is it to confiugre?
<\sh> I'm running it on my public jabber service now and I don't have any problems just like with jabberd2
<\sh> easy
<\sh> if u do the first config by hand, then u can do the rest via webadmin
<\sh> it has all nifty modules like pubsub etc. included
<derek> ok
<derek> and it has all the transports/
<\sh> no
<\sh> the transports are addons.
<derek> right, but they all work with it?
<\sh> I'm using pyicq-t, pyaim-t and pymsn-t
<\sh> yes
<derek> do the aim/msn transports support server side buddylists yet?
<\sh> yahoo is a bit tricky...I have to build a package for it to include in breezy+1
<derek> heh ok
<derek> what bout serverside bl's?
<\sh> bl?
<derek>  buddylists
<derek> for aim/msn
<\sh> ah no problem with it :)
<\sh> but they won't be updated if you include new buddies
<\sh> (the native serverside buddylists)
<derek> oh, so if i add a buddy through aim, then sign on to jabber with transports, they won't be fixed?
<derek> *updated?
<\sh> if you add a new buddy to aim...they will be updated through the transport
<\sh> but if you add a new aim-buddy with your jabber client, they won't be updated at aims server
<derek> ohh, ok,,, thats not horrible
<derek> if only i could get ejabberd to authenticate via my ad or nt5 domains
<\sh> hmmm..ldap is in the new version
<\sh> if you can export your active directory to openldap no problem
<derek> haha yeah, but then it has to be exported everytime a change is made
<torkel> Would it be possible to get a sync of openafs from Sid so there is at least a chance of having a working afs-client in Breezy? or is that to late?
<siretart> sistpoty: I fiddled a bit at the apache on tauware
<\sh> derek: that's a problem of AD :) I mean, u don't have to change anything on the OpenLDAP site...it should only be synced automatically
<siretart> sistpoty: now http://siretart.tauware.de/svn/revu2/trunk publicy accessible :)
<derek> \sh: true
<\sh> derek: but forget AD..the data u have to provide is simple...about how many users are we talking?
<derek> 15-20
<derek>  \sh: also, which jabber client do you reccomend?
<\sh> derek: native jabber?
<derek> yeah
<\sh> derek: psi
<derek> what about gtk :)
<\sh> or tkabber
<\sh> derek: well...that's the problem...I didn't find a gtk/gnome jabber client with all the features of psi
<\sh> tkabber (tcl/tk) is an alternative..but occupies the screen
<derek> hmm, ok
<\sh> psi is doing the work here even on gnome...
<derek> but that means that qt libraries have to be installed
<\sh> or u can try exodus with wine *lol*
<\sh> yes...
<\sh> but only qt
<derek> thats true, so its not as bad as kde.... so what does psi have that the others don't?
<Nafallo> \sh: you should port psi then :-)
<\sh> service discovery (xmpp 1.0)
<\sh> old ssl style login
<\sh> gpg functionality
<derek> service discovery?
<\sh> yes...transports etc. are not defined directly with the names etc. inside the server (like jabberd1 does)
<derek> gpg functionality to make it secure?
<\sh> gpg for secure client2client communications
<derek> eyah
<derek> both sides need that though
<\sh> yes
<\sh> ssl is only for client2server communications
<\sh> but between server2server the communicationchannels are free2air ,-)
<derek> oh, so it encrypts so server can't log
<\sh> yes
<derek> woudl you reccomend psi for windows machines also?
<siretart> psi is 'just' qt?
<\sh> and service discovery means, that most of the services like JUD (Jabber User Directory), MUC (MultiUserChat), ICQ/pubsub etc. pp. are setting their own name, and the client is sending out an xml request to server, the server sends it to the services and the service is answering for itself
<derek> ohh cool
<\sh> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.0-7), libqca1c2, libqt3-mt (>= 3:3.3.4), libstdc++6 (>= 4.0.0-7), libx11-6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), libxext6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> derek: it's the new xmpp 1.0 spec
<Nafallo> \sh: you should port psi to gtk then :-)
<\sh> derek: psi will have in the next release (I hope so) even SRV REC recognition and TLS connects (so the old SSL login style is deprecated)
<\sh> Nafallo: no ways...
<Nafallo> \sh: we want it for dotUbuntu ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: gaim should throw away all external IMs like ICQ etc. and should import some good transport jabber handling ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: which is shtoom, with means its your table ;-)
<derek> \sh: but would you reccomend psi for windows users also/
<\sh> derek: yes...psi or exodus..depends, psi runs on unix/windows and mac os x
<\sh> exodus only on windows
<derek> ohh ok
<\sh> but the functionality between psi and exodus is mostly the same
<\sh> the most powerful client is even tkabber
<\sh> but from a usability point of view, useless ,-)
<\sh> but works nicely together with ejabberd, cause it comes from the same development crew
<derek> haha
<\sh> and it supports natively pubsub services
<\sh> Nafallo: what we need is SIP+Jabber Client
<\sh> or a native SIP transport for Jabber Servers
<Nafallo> \sh: so then you will work on shtoom a bit more then what the spec says then? :-)
<\sh> SER has a jabber service functionality insdie
<\sh> inside
<derek> \sh: so i think maybe i will deploy a psi solution :)
<siretart> *bling* SIP?! for jabber?
<\sh> siretart: code it fast hurry up ,-)
<siretart> how should that work?
<\sh> easy
<\sh> jabber is xml stream transport
<\sh> so the functionality is the same as for smtp2jabber and vice versa
<Nafallo> smtp2jabber?
<Nafallo> postfix logs? :-)
<siretart> hm. so jabber clients would have to integrate an SIP client?
<\sh> you frickle the SIP headers inside a xml service package, and send it to a SIP service for the jabber, this service removes the xml headers, send it to the next sip router
<\sh> siretart: well...something like this, or the transport service acts as a sip client itself...just like the icq or aim ones
<siretart> hm
<siretart> still sounds like vodoo to me ;)
<\sh> so the data transfer between e.g. sipgate.de and your jabber server comes only from the transport and redirects all to the jabber client, which can handle this special xml stream package
<\sh> siretart: peter and the others from jabber.org are working on a spec for it :)
<\sh> siretart: ulrich staudinger (manager at united internet) and jabber foundation board member are happy to see this coming :)
<siretart> \sh: with integration of gnomemeeting, that would be great :)
<siretart> hehe
<\sh> siretart: for what? h323 over jabber is the next step
<siretart> ah
<\sh> and there is one client who is able to do h.323 natively with jabber support...so the chat comes via jabber and the video via direct client2client h.323 ,-)
<Nafallo> wasn't gnomemeeting about to get support for SIP?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> but video + sip will be handled differently
<Nafallo> is that feature in breezy? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: go away ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: hehehe
<\sh> wow...that was a long interessting chat about jabbre
<\sh> -re+er
<\sh> Nafallo: can I put you on the goals list for shtoom+voip?
<\sh> or should I talk to JaneW that she's using her whip on you? ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: what now? :-)
<Nafallo> \sh: what shall I do with it? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: you can help me for breezy+1
* ogra sighs about 28MB uloads
<Nafallo> \sh: I'm already on that list AFAIK? :-)
<\sh> ogra: u need a faster i-connection ,-)
<ogra> \sh, yes, after i moved out of NRW
<\sh> oh yes
<\sh> Nafallo: oh yes
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> ogra: wanna have my flat? it has 4Mbit/s down / 442kbit/s up
* Nafallo is on lots of stuff :-/
<\sh> hmmm..
<ogra> \sh, how many animals can i get in there ? we want a donkey and some goats in the next house
<\sh> marks email address?
<ogra> mark@ubuntu.com ?
<\sh> ogra: come on...u r working on linux...how can u ride there a donkey
<\sh> dunno...ok
<\sh> well...
<ogra> \sh, why should i ride it ?
<\sh> a donkey can kick ass...if you don't function properly ,-)
<ogra> hehe, yes
<\sh> ogra: what r u doing then with a donkey?
<\sh> eat it?
<\sh> *eg*
<ogra> nah..
<ogra> no idea, really...
<siretart> donkey salami? ;)
<\sh> hihihi
<ogra> just care for it, have it around, live with it
<\sh> damn...I just got a flash of laughing
<ogra> but first i have to find someone for the kittens
<\sh> ian has 2 now...I will ask him, if he needs more
<ogra> they will be born at breezy release time ... breezy badgr kittens
<\sh> I would really love to have a little cat again..but not in this flat, not when I'm alone...no
<\sh> nice...i can have this usb dvd burner for the weekend...I love dmitry
<\sh> ok...I will install breezy daily iso now...so I have to shutdown my network now :) hope this yukon ethernet device can handle X-UTP-Cables
<\sh> laters dude
<sistpoty> <- in the kitchen, getFood()... cya later
<torkel> ogra: would it be possible to get a sync of openafs from Sid so there is at least a chance of having a working afs client in Breezy? or is that to late?
<derek> \sh_away: i installed the aimtransport on ejabber, can't figure out how to actually sign on. I connect to the transport and i have to give a host,room and nickname
<siretart> torkel: whats the problem with the current openafs in breezy?
<siretart> (never had a look at that)
<ogra> torkel, its quite late, but i can try...
<torkel> siretart: among others it does not compile with 2.6.12...
<ogra> if it fixes ftbfs that would be a good one
<torkel> ogra: that would be great
<\sh> back
<siretart> err, I'd consider a sync to get it work a pretty valid reason
<siretart> even built/installable
<ogra> yep
<derek> \sh: did you see my problme?
<derek> \sh: nm, i figured it out
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i should disable the dhcp server
<derek> lol
<\sh> then it doesn't destroy my dsl connection at all
<\sh> *grmpf*
<\sh> derek: what was the problem?
<derek> i had trouble wiht the transport
<derek> i got ti working
<derek> for aim transport, i have to authorize ALL of my buddies?
<\sh> sure
<derek> heh
<\sh> sure
<\sh> even for icq
<\sh> and msn
<derek> thats a pain
<\sh> brb
<derek> \sh: jabber is pretty cool! i can sign in at multiple places at once, does it send messages to multiple places?
<\sh> derek: sure...if you select your contacts on one server it send to all of them a message
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> and switching between uk layout and de layout is a minus for me
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> what's up?
<Yagisan> morning
<derek> so, if i am signed on through psi, gossip, and gaim, and someone im's me, i recieve it on all three?
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> aha, today is review day! :)
<\sh> derek: well....normally yes...if someone sends u a message on derek@jabber.org/Psi (and your resource is psi) then it will only received on the Psi resource
<\sh> but if you provide the same resource on all three, then it determines the priority
<\sh> set it to 5 on all with the same resource and try
<derek> oh, ok, what about if someone on aim sends me a message? will it go to all 3?
<\sh> no...all external transports can only be signed in once
<derek> so which does it chose?
<derek> the only one i sign on on
<derek> got it
<\sh> so if you connect first with gossip, and try to connect your account with psi...then gossip will lose the connection to the aim transport and psi takes over
<\sh> derek: multiple connects same resource same prio works only with jabber itself
<derek> ohh cool
<derek> i want to make a personal jabber server.... too bad my connection sucks
<\sh> the transports are acting like a single icq/aim/msn/yahoo client
<\sh> if you need more icq accounts on one account, you have to setup multiple instances of one transport
<derek> so if i login with 2 clients, and i login to the transport on both clients....
<\sh> derek: use mine :)
<derek> \sh: i want the experience of running my own server
<\sh> derek: the latest connect will win, and the first connect loses the connection to the transport
<derek> \sh: ohhh, so if i just add a bunch of instances of that one transport, i should be fine
<derek> \sh: i want a vds to run a mail
<derek> server on
<derek> and webserver
<derek> now jabber too!
<\sh> derek: yeah..but it takes memory and ports
<derek> \sh: right
<\sh> derek: so every instance of one transport needs a new port number assigned
<\sh> the discovery is done via psi or tkabber or exodus
<derek> so thats why most public servers don't have many transports?
<derek> uses too many ports?
<\sh> derek: yes and no...most servers are allowing only one icq/aim/msn/yahoo connect
<\sh> per user
<derek>  yeah, makes sense
<\sh> and thats enough
<derek> hwo do i make a user an admin?
<\sh> but there are also some legal issues
<derek> legal issues?
<\sh> u set it in the configuration
<\sh> yes...you can
<derek> i can't login to the admin
<\sh> you can't offer commercial services with the aim,icq,msn etc. protocols
<derek> ohh, gotcha
<\sh> derek: ejabberd?
<derek> yeah
<derek> i can't login to the webadmin without an admin account
<\sh> {acl, admin, {user, "sh"}}.
<\sh> thats the admin
<derek> where do i do that?
<\sh> and the admin account for webamdin is sh@<first jabber domain>
<\sh> in ejabberd.cfg
<derek> gotcha
<\sh> sh is me
<derek> hehe yeha
<derek> \sh: it also keeps track of offline messages (obviously not of transports, but of jabber)
<\sh> yes...
<\sh> derek: offline messages are handled by the propietary protocol servers
<derek> \sh: what do you mean?
<\sh> derek: icq handles offline messages directly on their servers
<derek> right, jabber has it on its servers though
<\sh> if someones not online in icq, the message is send to the icq server and later when the contact comes online the server determines this and send the message
<\sh> derek: right...jabber handles this also with the server
<derek> cool
<derek> so if i send an offline message to your server, it is stored on your server not mine right?
<\sh> yes
<derek>  cool
<derek> \sh: is it possible to hide offline buddys in psi?
<\sh> yes
<derek> do you know offhand how?
<\sh> the first button in the top line left
<derek> oh that works :)
<derek> \sh: jabber is great, thank you soo much for all your help!
<\sh> derek: u r welcome...
<Treenaks> Shall I take a picture of the Turkish eating house "Kismet" tomorrow? :)
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> Treenaks: u r in turkey now?
<Treenaks> \sh: no, Amsterdam has Turkish eating houses :)
<Treenaks> \sh: lots of them
<\sh> kebap houses
<Treenaks> \sh: stuff like that, yeah
<\sh> or as we in germany are saying: doenerstube
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: I hope to make multiarch one at least, yes.
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: what's the goal?
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: games :-)
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: http://www.magicalforest.se/tmp/deng-errors.txt :-P
<Mithrandir> there's not really many linux games, at least not if you talk about commercial ones. :-(
<Nafallo> more about deng :-)
<Mithrandir> oh, joy, which game is that?
<siretart> a free doom clone
<Nafallo> and heretic, and hexen, and and and :-)
<Nafallo> I'm trying to find the homepage :-)
<Yagisan> look at my website
<Yagisan> linked from here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.html
<Yagisan> upstream homepage is out of date
<Nafallo> that site yes :-)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: Mithrandir is our amd64 god :-)
<Yagisan> :)
<Mithrandir> heh ;-)
<Mithrandir> that seems mostly fixable, though
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: just try to make those 293 cast-warnings to longs? ;-)
<\sh> Mithrandir: ah yes...U want only to play a doom clone on amd64 ;)
<Nafallo> it builds, it just that it can't run ;-)
<Mithrandir> I guess this is universe, right? :-)
<Nafallo> and multiverse
<Nafallo> you got free time in the weekend ;-)
<Mithrandir> :-P
<Mithrandir> well, I doubt I'm going to spend much time on it, there's plenty of RC bugs still left.
<Nafallo> hehe, then I'll look at it and we make the package !64-bit atm? ;-)
<Mithrandir> just leave it failing for now, I guess.
<Nafallo> Yagisan: you heard the god :-)
<Nafallo> Yagisan: I'll file bugs on you when it's in the archive ;-)
<Yagisan> sobs, you hate my package :'(
<Nafallo> lol
<Yagisan> lol
<Yagisan> I fixed the control, it won't try to build on amd64 now
<Yagisan> so no (new) bugs for me
<Nafallo> baah, then I can't file bugs ;-)
<Yagisan> yes you can, load heretic, get to level 2, save, then try to load, instant seg fault
<Nafallo> haha
<Nafallo> I won't even be able to run it ;-)
<Yagisan> siretart: Mind if I upload the 7 deng iwad installers to revu (only 200k total) ?
<siretart> Yagisan: sure
<Yagisan> siretart: thanks, though I should ask before bulk uploading
<Nafallo> Yagisan: more fun to let siretart nuke you though ;-)
<Yagisan> Nafallo: :) If I sent my entire repo, he would
* Nafallo would have a laugh anyway ;-)
<Yagisan> OK, any i386 or ppc people with an appropriate iwad can now use the deng package with menus.
<ajmitch> Yagisan: great - I haven't managed to get to the ppc box & test yet :)
<Yagisan> ajmitch: no problems :) package is much improved since you saw it last (I wrote some up to date documentation)
<Yagisan> any deng packages testers, there is a reportbug script setup in the package, please run reportbug to report
<Yagisan> success or failures. WRT failures, deng deletes its logs on startup, so run reportbug after it crashes. Thanks
<kezz> whats deng?
<Yagisan> kezz: doom sourceport.
<kezz> ah thanks
<kezz> i'll try it
<Yagisan> kezz: thanks, it's at revu
<kezz> k
<opi> review day is today? :(
<opi> I'm fixing qemu package, but I don't know if I'll manage to put it together today, bah
<ajmitch> yes, review day is today, but that doesn't stop us from reviewing any other time :)
<opi> yeah ;)
<opi> but since you're going to be at it
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-23
<ajmitch> wonderful, the current image I rsynced is identical to colony 3 :)
<mgalvin> how often does revu process uploads?
<mgalvin> additionally, when i modify a package and upload the fixes to revu should I bump the version or leave it the same since it is not in a repository yet
<ajmitch> every 15 minutes, I think?
<ajmitch> I prefer to bump the version, if not, then add a note into the changelog for the current version instead
<ajmitch> ah..
<ajmitch> sorry, do you mean modify a package in the repository, or one in revu?
<mgalvin> in revu
<ajmitch> ok, then I suppose it's ok to leave the changelog as-is, though I don't like that :)
<mgalvin> i will leave the number the same but add info about what i did just so it is there for the record
<ajmitch> good
<sistpoty> mgalvin: revu processes uploads every 5 mins
<mgalvin> ok, thnx guys
<sistpoty> you're welcome
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> what's up?
<sistpoty> nothing special... just trying to start with revu2 ;)
<ajmitch> wonderful :)
<sistpoty> but I think it will take some time :/
<sistpoty> didn't got half of the things finished, I planned to incorporate today
<ajmitch> sistpoty: got the source available?
<sistpoty> yeah... siretart put revu2 into public svn (see REVUDevelopment for a link)
<sistpoty> but there isn't any code in revu2 yet :(
<ajmitch> ok
<mgalvin> if anyone has time... i uploaded my gperfection package with the suggested fixes and revu has already processed it
* ajmitch wonders why \sh has turck-mmcache uploaded - I don't think upstream is active :)
<ajmitch> ah, not \sh
<ajmitch> different sh?
<sistpoty> dunno
<Nafallo> ajmitch: soren hansen, dk
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yeah, I spotted that now :)
<ajmitch> Yagisa1: is there a good reason to have so many separate deng-* source packages?
<Yagisa1> ajmitch: yes
<Nafallo> short answer ;-)
<Nafallo> now ajmitch will ask why? :-)
<Yagisa1> most important being ubuntu users requested I split the packages up
<ajmitch> and you couldn't do that with 1 source, multiple binaries?
<Yagisa1> It also helps to transition to new upstream versions
<ajmitch> remember that if this gets uploaded, elmo has to manually approve every new package
<ajmitch> so you don't want a grumpy elmo
<Yagisa1> the data packs don't get released in sync
<Yagisa1> who's elmo ?
<Nafallo> Yagisa1: ftp-master@ubuntu.com :8-
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> ftp-master
<ajmitch> he who has the last word on acceptance into the archive
<mgalvin> James Troup, i.e., the damn ;)
<ajmitch> mgalvin: DAM, not damn ;)
<Yagisa1> ah, I see. Well, new maintainers guide doesn't cover 1 source, multi binaries,
<Yagisa1> and it can be annoying to upload ~20MB just to change eg a hud mode
<ajmitch> hey Unfrgiven!
<ajmitch> long time no see :)
<mgalvin> typo, sorry
<ajmitch> Yagisa1: you upload diffs against the orig.tar.gz for minor revisions
<Yagisa1> yay, binary diffs
<ajmitch> it just means that users would get all the packages they have installed uploaded at once
<ajmitch> s/uploaded/upgraded/
<Yagisa1> I have even more packages waiting to upload too
<Yagisa1> Not all users like the different versions, so I though they would like the choice
<Yagisa1> of what to install
<ajmitch> yes, and when you split the package, they can choose that
<Yagisa1> I used to have it all as a single package - I got hate mail because of it :'(
<ajmitch> I'm just saying that you don't have to split the source as well
<ajmitch> part of being a maintainer is enjoying the hate mail ;)
<Yagisa1> If you point me to a tut, I'll recombine the deng-jdoom-rp-* into one source
<ajmitch> I can try & look for one
<Yagisa1> I still have the deng-jdoom-ui, deng-jdoom-awp, deng-jdoom-tp, deng-jdoom-ep and deng-jdoom-bamteleports to upload,
<Yagisa1> then it's onto jheretic
<Yagisa1> new-maintainers guide misses things like this
<ajmitch> that's because the NM guide deals with the simpler cases
<sistpoty> Yagisa1: if all the sources where back combined into one source, would that be the 250Mb you wrote about earlier?
<Yagisa1> sistpoty no, thats only about 20MB
<sistpoty> ah... ok
<ajmitch> what would total 250MB?
<Yagisa1> my entire repo
<Yagisa1> which I will not upload
<ajmitch> ok, good :)
<Yagisa1> just the core (engine, models, textures and ui)
<ajmitch> can any of this go into universe, or just multiverse?
<Yagisa1> unless I wrote it, it's multiverse
<ajmitch> and I'd say that if it doesn't work without multiverse packages, then it should be in multiverse as well
<Yagisa1> upstream on the data went non-commcercial
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> so we have to check if we can distribute that at all
<Yagisa1> because of ebay scammers selling deng, and the models makes, and doom iwads on ebay
<Yagisa1> we can distribute it
<Yagisa1> I securred permission 6 months ago
<Yagisa1> I'll dig it up, just a sec
<ajmitch> if we go by the same rules as debian, special permission doesn't mean jack
<ajmitch> since we have to be able to give the same distribution permission to our users
<Yagisa1> ajmitch, it was a common courtesy do you mind if I package your work
<Yagisa1> web link is here if you are interested http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=26848
<Yagisa1> It's simple, distribute yes, sell no, modify and claim it's your work no
<ajmitch> right, I'm guessing it's ok for multiverse then
<Yagisa1> I'll hold off uploading if you want, but when it started packaging I tried to make sure it passed as
<Yagisa1> much of the DFSG as it could
<ajmitch> go ahead & upload to revu, license review is just a required part of any new package :)
<Yagisa1> that's cool. I've been auditing the deng license myself, hence multiverse not universe
<ajmitch> I'm glad you've been doing that
<Yagisa1> I've had to do 3 way diffs with gpl doom, hexen, and deng to see what code comes from where.
<Yagisa1> It wasn't fun
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> that sounds nasty :)
<Yagisa1> if you don't build heretic or hexen, it can go to universe
<Yagisa1> --without-jheretic --without-jhexen
<Yagisa1> but the users were a bit "unhappy"
<ajmitch> not if the source still contains that code
<Yagisa1> seperate modules
<ajmitch> separate source packages?
<Yagisa1> separate directories, eg you could delete the jhexen directory, patch the makefile and it builds fine
<Yagisa1> each module builds as a separate .so file
<ajmitch> right, that would be a case where you'd need separate source packages
<Yagisa1> that's how the code is seperated
<Yagisa1> :) and I was told not to repack the source last night
<ajmitch> there are special cases for it
<ajmitch> bad licensing is one of them :)
<Yagisa1> I know
<Yagisa1> at least this one could be made DFSG free if you wanted to
<ajmitch> it'd be nice
<Yagisa1> I agree
<Yagisa1> There is a planned rewrite for it anyway, that will be all GPL
<Yagisa1> but that won't be fore some time
<Yagisa1> s/fore/for/
<Yagisa1> I've got a few more uploads heading up my slow pipe (the largest single upload I'll do), they are all
<Yagisa1> one source - one binary files. I've got to head out, so feel free to direct all flames to my email
<Yagisa1> when I get back tonight I'll look into how to combine the deng-jdoom-rp-* into 1 source  - multiple binaries
<Yagisa1> Catch you later tonight
* sistpoty needs some sleep now... gn8 folks
<marcin> hi all
<marcin> I got a question about copyright file in debian package
<marcin> there are two things that I don't understand in 100%
<marcin> 1. 'It was downloaded from <fill in ftp site>
<marcin> what should I put there ? full url to file or just ftp?
<marcin> and what if it is just http url not ftp?
<mgalvin> the url like http://site.org/
<marcin> mgalvin: and what if source is just single file?
<marcin> mgalvin: like http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/emacs/dired%20.el/download/dired+.el
<marcin> ?
<mgalvin> hmm, i would say just http://www.emacswiki.org/
<mgalvin> it doesn't matter if its one file or 100, its just to say where you got it
<marcin> ok then another thing
<mgalvin> that full location might change
<marcin> what is 'Upstream Author' ?
<mgalvin> the name of the actual developer of the software/application
<mgalvin> or developers
<mgalvin> use Upstream Authors <- not the plural if there are multiple developers
<marcin> mgalvin: ok thx
<mgalvin> they usually also the copyright holder(s) in which case i usually only use Copyright Holder(s) and leave out Upstream Authors
<mgalvin> s/they/they are/
<mgalvin> no prob
<Tzi> Hi.. Anyone heard anything about Anjuta, and possibly getting a sync from Sid?
<krystoff> wanna know where i can find docs about the way do well-done packages for ubuntu ?
<pabs3> hi all, simple question about versioning - if I upload foobar-1.1.1-5 to debian mentors, what version should I upload to ubuntu?
<Lathiat> pabs3: you should ask for a sync
<Lathiat> pabs3: instead of uploading
<Lathiat> altho technically
<Lathiat> foobar-1.1.1-5ubuntu1
<Lathiat> altho if its to mentors
<pabs3> well, my package is in neither debian or ubuntu yet
<Lathiat> probably cant sync from that
<pabs3> so, foobar-1.1.1-4ubuntu1 then?
<ajmitch> pabs3: is this package in debian? if not, have you filed the ITP?
<pabs3> not in debian, yes I filed an itp
<Lathiat> pabs3: 5ubuntu1 if the debian version is 5
<pabs3> ok
<ajmitch> ok, I guess this will have to be a special case
<ajmitch> we generally number lower than debian because of syncing
<Lathiat> oh
<ajmitch> but since it's going to be the same package, I guess we can make an exception
<pabs3> my plan is to upload to revu and mentors, keeping the versions in sync and adding a "uploading to ubuntu" changelog entry automatically using a script
<ajmitch> _maybe_ :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: hrm, how does that work?
<ajmitch> pabs3: why?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: like if we make it 4ubuntu1, then youd think you need to sync when that pages is really 5 anyway
<ajmitch> why can't it be put into debian yet? :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: and if we upload then it likely doesnt want to be synced ?
<pabs3> ajmitch: no sponsor wants to take it yet :)
<ajmitch> pabs3: well what's the package?
<pabs3> ttf-mph-2b-damase theres a broken version in revu
<pabs3> its also listed here: http://sponsors.debian.net/listing.php and uploaded to mentors.debian.net
<ajmitch> aha, paul wise..
<pabs3> aha?
<ajmitch> aha, I spotted the upload
<ajmitch> and I see there was quite a discussion about it on the ITP
<pabs3> yeah, lots :)
<pabs3> finished and used the script: http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/files/bin/upload-to-revu
<Lathiat> siretart: yo
<Lathiat> oh yay vflib3 built
<Lathiat> now daniels fixed xmkmf
<\sh> it build?
<\sh> how?
<\sh> it's missing -lX11 and some other things
<\sh> Lathiat: I'll assign my vflib3 merge to you :)
<Lathiat> yeh
<siretart> great :)
<Lathiat> its because xmkmf was broken
<\sh> no
<Lathiat> siretart: i wanted to ask
<\sh> it has more
<Lathiat> oh?
<Lathiat> it seems to work here
<Lathiat> builds at least
<\sh> or the MoMs version is broken
<Lathiat> oh i didnt check moms version yet
<\sh> aha
<\sh> yeah..check it :)
<Lathiat> siretart: i wanted to ask, what point would be a suitable point to apply to become a motu?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: about 4 weeks ago
<Lathiat> passing aroudn debdiffs with changelogs is annoyingly pointless :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: oh?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: in other words, ASAP :)
* Lathiat just hadn't thought he'd made a name enough for himself yet :)
<Lathiat> ok then
<Lathiat> so.. you'd support me? :)
<ajmitch> of course
<\sh> Lathiat: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12267
* ajmitch is a Lathiat fanboy ;)
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> \sh: righton
<Lathiat> \sh: want me to look at it or?
<Lathiat> the -lX11 thin was xmkmf, dunno about anything else
<SloMo> good morning :)
<\sh> Lathiat: do :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<SloMo> hi sistpoty
<\sh> Lathiat: why shouldn't we support you?
<Lathiat> \sh: just was thinking i might have needed to do more :)
* ajmitch fetches the colony-3 live cd to give it a spin :)
<ajmitch> it's such a refreshing change to fetch at ~150K/sec :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> what did you have before
<Lathiat> thats what i get
<ajmitch> 256Kbps
<Lathiat> ah yes
<ajmitch> so max of 32K/sec
<ajmitch> as you understand :)
<Lathiat> i had 256 about 6 months ago
<Lathiat> then 512 4 months ago
<Lathiat> and since 3 months ago what you ahve now :)
<ajmitch> I'm sure the novelty will wear off..
<ajmitch> especially once the 64k shaping kicks in
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> how much quota you got
<ajmitch> 10GB :(
<ajmitch> ah yes, I've still got that other download going at ~80K/sec :)
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> 80 + 150 ?
<Lathiat> well i have 20GB
<Lathiat> but i get the free waix i mentioned so that helps
<Lathiat> whatcha paying?
<ajmitch> 2Mbps connection
<ajmitch> $65NZD/month
<Lathiat> im nearly out of peak quota with 12 days to go, doh.. keeping my ubuntu mirror up to date has its hurts
<Lathiat> ajmitch: ah, right im on 1.5
<Lathiat> $69.95aud
<ajmitch> so mine's about $10AUD cheaper
<ajmitch> but half the data, no free peering data
<ajmitch> because of telecom
<ajmitch> the 10GB is because of the way that telecom provision bandwidth to ISPs
<tseng> you silly socialists
<ajmitch> tseng: oh yes, we love our prime minister Comrade Helen
<ajmitch> she's Red & Proud
<tseng> *laughs*
<ajmitch> & ugly as sin :)
<tseng> oh crap
<tseng> its getting rather late
<tseng> bye.
<sistpoty> bye tseng
<ajmitch> bye tseng
<Lathiat> ajmitch: curious, whats your government structure?
<Lathiat> since you have a prime minister, not independant ?
<ajmitch> no, we're not independant
<ajmitch> only 1 house of parliament
<ajmitch> still have QE2 as 'head of state'
<Lathiat> righto
<Lathiat> same as us?
<ajmitch> similar
<ajmitch> we don't have separate states
<ajmitch> too small for that :)
<marc_> heaps of aussies on
<ajmitch> marc_: and I'm not one ;)
<\sh> today is review day...:)
<ajmitch> although there are enough kiwis in .au
<marc_> true
<ajmitch> since it's easy enough to travel to .au
* ajmitch hasn't been to perth yet, though
<StrikeForce> thisis true
<StrikeForce> lol
<StrikeForce> come over its great over here
<ajmitch> well I 'missed' canberra, if you can call it that ;)
<StrikeForce> lol
<ajmitch> was hoping to get there for LCA
<ajmitch> after I got to adelaide last year
<StrikeForce> LCA?
<ajmitch> linux.conf.au
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<StrikeForce> still haven't been to it
<ajmitch> held in dunedin, NZ next year ;)
<StrikeForce> might have to go
<StrikeForce> prefer to go elsewhere than visit my own state :)
<ajmitch> so even linux australia recognise NZ as part of .au :)
<StrikeForce> ofcourse it should .nz is basically a relative of .au
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh yeh
<ajmitch> we almost speak the same language
<Lathiat> im hoping to get my paper accepted & get travel assistence to goto dunedin
<Lathiat> we'll see
<Lathiat> wont be able to afford it myself
<ajmitch> that would be great
<ajmitch> what are you planning to talk about?
<Lathiat> i got the RDP last year which was cool
<StrikeForce> sweet
<ajmitch> perth->dunedin would cost a lot
<Lathiat> and the conference paid the year before that because i was running the ipv6 miniconf and asked really nicely
<StrikeForce> it will
<Lathiat> and the year before that it was in peth and i was an organiser :)
<StrikeForce> although the prices are dropping thanks to virgin
<ajmitch> unlike travel from sydney or melbourne
<Lathiat> ajmitch: mdns-sd service discovery / avahi
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> basically what i pay to goto adelaide or sydney
<ajmitch> ah, more networking stuff
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> is what the people over there will have to pay :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh, its my thing :)
<StrikeForce> true
<StrikeForce> hey quick question
<Lathiat> so anyone who bitches about airfares can die ;p
<ajmitch> I managed to spend 2 months in melbourne last year
<Lathiat> unless their in perth :)
<StrikeForce> I've created a package which installs fine
<StrikeForce> however when I try to remove it it doesn't remove :(
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: what does it complain about?
<StrikeForce> no complaints thats the thing
<ajmitch> and can we have a look at the source?
<StrikeForce> yeah no worries
<StrikeForce> I've been adding to it since I started to give me 5 mins to finish it off :)
<ajmitch> heh ok
<ajmitch> Lathiat: so you're a poor uni student this year, right?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: was a poor high school student last year ;p
<ajmitch> yeah I know :)
<Lathiat> doing internetworking & security @ murdoch university
<Lathiat> see a trend? :)
<ajmitch> just a bit
<ajmitch> I was doing telecommunications & network-relates stuff at uni the last couple of years :)
<ajmitch> flatmate is a telecommunications teaching fellow
<Lathiat> cool
<ajmitch> so I did a couple of years of lab demonstrating as well
<ajmitch> the papers on network management & network programming
<StrikeForce> yeah I also did a lintian check
<StrikeForce> and a few warnings but no errors
<StrikeForce> excuse big lag since I'm transferring the files now
<ajmitch> no problems
<Lathiat> StrikeForce: wondershaper = win
<StrikeForce> is it
<Lathiat> i shape my connection speed down a bit to never kill my latency
<StrikeForce> I haven't had a good look at it because I want a full qos type system
<Lathiat> im pulling downa nd uploading as fast as i can right now and ssh latency is minimal
<StrikeForce> and it looks very hard to organise
<Lathiat> well its better than nothing
<\sh> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=410 <- NJAM -> Super Duper Hot Pacman Clone :) Please Review ,-)
<Lathiat> wondershaper is easy
<Lathiat> just set down and up speed
* ajmitch doesn't have any lag on irc due to wondershaper
<Lathiat> you can do more but its a start
<ajmitch> I'm considering throttling my flatmates a lot due to their incessant bittorrent/kazaa usage
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> kazaa? people still use that?
<ajmitch> a 10GB cap can be chewed thru in days
<ajmitch> yeah
<StrikeForce> lol
<StrikeForce> use BT
<Lathiat> bah
<Lathiat> bt is overrated :P)
<Lathiat> s/P//
<ajmitch> I'm doing the drastic throttling at the moment - iptables -m limit ;)
<StrikeForce> I set wondershaper once before but I wanna allocate to certain port ranges
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<ajmitch> drop everything else..
<Lathiat> StrikeForce: well the idea of wondershaper
<Lathiat> StrikeForce: is specifically to stop packets from queueing up
<Lathiat> which you really wan tto do no matter whats doing it
<Lathiat> its basically a brain dead reaction to ISPs setting real big queues so their internet connections are seen as fast
* Nafallo hugs his home-brewed init.d scripts
<StrikeForce> true however I wanted it for qos purposes
<StrikeForce> plus we are on a router here
<StrikeForce> at home where I live (long story) I have wondershaper running on my FC box
* ajmitch has a usb dsl modem, wondershaper on the sarge box with does all firewalling, routing :)
<Lathiat> ah
<ajmitch> since there's probably 15-20 machines or so in this flat :)
<Lathiat> i have a hoary box which has ethernet to a modem in bridge mode
<Lathiat> aj	scary
<ajmitch> Lathiat: it happens :)
<Lathiat> i have
<Nafallo> (adslmodem) <-> (server/router/firewall/trafshap) <-> switch <-> clients/ap
* Lathiat counts
<Nafallo> :-)
<Lathiat> 4
<Lathiat> only 2 are on
<Lathiat> my laptop and my gateway
<Nafallo> all ubuntu
<ajmitch> I count 6 in my room, only 3 are plugged in & running (breezy)
<Lathiat> heh yeh i have ubuntu on 3, ones a 133mhz sgi indy which runs sarge because ubuntu doesnt run on mipsel :)
<Lathiat> was trying to get my indycam going
* ajmitch should install debian or ubuntu on the 486
<Lathiat> but last kernel failed to boot
<Lathiat> and i havent bothered to lug my sgi monitor in from the back room to find out why
<Lathiat> that was about 3 weeks ago now :)
<Lathiat> i should do that
<StrikeForce> kkk
<StrikeForce> finished
<StrikeForce> http://www.smlintl.com.au/packages/rufus/
<StrikeForce> look at part 2
<StrikeForce> or the 2nd version
<StrikeForce> since both versions have the same issue however part 2 has the menu added and other bits and pieces
<StrikeForce> I was thinking that I probably have to add a script to remove it since its not doing it
<ajmitch> \sh: ugly, you used dh_make, and you didn't remove all the unneeded cruft?
<StrikeForce> btw I'm a semi-newb packager :P
<StrikeForce> newb in debian style but bit more experiences in RH or FC way
<\sh> ajmitch: ay..wrong package?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> ajmitch: what unneeded cruft?
<ajmitch> \sh: and a broken debian/copyright - no 'Copyright (C) YEAR Author'
<ajmitch> all the commented out bits in the binary target
<\sh> damn
<\sh> ah this u mean...ah come on ,-)
<ajmitch> debian/copyright should have the 3 paragraphs of GPL
<ajmitch> \sh: you wanted a review..
<sistpoty> hehe, even s.o. with main upload rights doesn ;)
<sistpoty> + 'nt make flawless packages at once
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> ajmitch: yes true :)
<ajmitch> you shipped a docbook version of the manpage, and njam.1 ?
<\sh> now I'm trying to find the copyright date ,-)
<\sh> una momenta
<\sh> no
<\sh> argl.
<\sh> damn
<ajmitch> is it GPL 2, or GPL2 (or any later version)
<\sh> shit
<\sh> *lol*
<ajmitch> hehe
<\sh> GPL-2?
<\sh> now let me work...moment
<ajmitch> ok ;)
<\sh> ah yes
<\sh> I didn't delete the bloody resulting njam.1
<\sh> grmpf
* ajmitch hasn't even begun to be pedantic ;)
<StrikeForce> lol
<StrikeForce> you can with mine I prefer it then I know how bad I did it
<StrikeForce> or created it
<\sh> ajmitch: come on...it was my second package...I just found it again on my rootserver
<StrikeForce> gives me a target to aim to
<ajmitch> if I were pedantic, I'd be complaining about Standards-Version being 3.6.1 instead of 3.6.2 ;)
<\sh> *censored*
<\sh> I'll fix anything and everything believe me
<\sh> 3.6.2.1 is debian-policy now
<\sh> so fix all your packages please ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: you only need to use 3.6.2
<ajmitch> since the 4th rev number is for typos/editorial changes
<\sh> according to dholbach i should use dpkg -l debian-policy
<\sh> standards version  ,-)
<\sh> teasing
<ajmitch> at least that's the recommended procesure that I've heard from debian :)
<SloMo> \sh: the first 3 numbers... yes ;) but not the whole on
<\sh> ok...I can upload again with the same version number?
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: fetching rufus..
<\sh> or should I increase it?
<StrikeForce> kk
<ajmitch> I'd usually say increase the version number
<ajmitch> however I know dholbach disagrees with me ;)
<ajmitch> since he likes to have the first version uploaded to ubuntu to be -0ubuntu1
<StrikeForce> only reason I did increase is for my own initial records
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: which I agree with
<SloMo> ajmitch: he now uses -0ubuntu0.1 for the first upload, -0ubuntu0.2 for the second and so on... and for the final, approved one -0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> SloMo: right, he was warned against that though
<siretart> \sh: I'd say reupload only if there are also other changes. that Standard Versions aren't that important to us
<ajmitch> siretart: there are a number of other changes
<siretart> ok. then increase it :)
<\sh> siretart: there r...I just corrected all the stuff...copyright etc. and changed rules file
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
* siretart still fighting with doxygen..
* ajmitch really has to get to bed soon :)
<\sh> ajmitch: u stay now until i reuploaded...dude :)
<sistpoty> siretart: if you take longer for the meeting, just tell me... i'll be around and working on revu2
<ajmitch> \sh: what, not enough MOTUs around for reviewing? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: no...u started this teasing..now I'm teasing you until the end ,-)
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> ok..uploaded new version
<ajmitch> \sh: I prefer to call it constructive criticism
<siretart> hehe
<StrikeForce> sorry ajmitch  about it being so slow
<ajmitch> it's an improvement.. I'll need to grab the rest of the source to do it properly :)
<\sh> ajmitch: u mean: ajmitch's disturbed night? ,-)
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: that's ok, I'm going to try building it in pbuilder
<StrikeForce> kk
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: there are a number of things to fix up in the debian packaging, but we can come to those later :)
<\sh> ok..kzenexplorer + ktemperature needs only one review more
<StrikeForce> kk
<\sh> ok...coffee and cigarette
<StrikeForce> same
<\sh> after that...i have to fix qt
<StrikeForce> or for me diet coke and cig
<sistpoty> sh: good idea :)
<SloMo> siretart: can you try to build deng on amd64 and tell me what doesn't work? ;)
* ajmitch found an issue with ktemperature :)
<siretart> SloMo: sorry, I'm at work right now :(
<ajmitch> ah no, it might be ok..
<SloMo> siretart: oh ok... np :)
<StrikeForce> bac
<StrikeForce> back*
* ajmitch has a nearly-full /var :(
<Nafallo> ajmitch: lvm2 dude ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: usnig it.. ;)
<ajmitch> /dev/mapper/vg1-var   9.9G  9.5G  328M  97% /var
<ajmitch> so I really should reallocate some of that spare space in the VG
<ajmitch>  Free  PE / Size       16690 / 65.20 GB
<Nafallo> /dev/mapper/services-postgres
<Nafallo>                       194M   58M  127M  32% /var/lib/postgres
<Nafallo> /dev/mapper/services-postfix
<Nafallo>                       148M  4.4M  136M   4% /var/spool/postfix
<Nafallo> /dev/mapper/services-www
<Nafallo>                        97M  6.5M   86M   7% /var/www
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> yeah, /var isn't the only one on LVM :)
<Lathiat> so lvm2 lets you resize at will?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yeah
<Nafallo> Lathiat: unmount, resize, mount
<Lathiat> Nafallo: pff as if not online resizing
<ajmitch> Nafallo: ext2resize works for me
<Nafallo> I don't dare to try online resizing ;-)
<StrikeForce> how bad is it ajmitch
<ajmitch> I tested on a spare logical volume :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: breezy?
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> Nafallo: of course
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I believe hoary didn't have online resizing :-).
<Nafallo> ajmitch: and my server is hoary main :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it did on my box - I packaged ext2resize 1.1.19 for testing :)
<ajmitch> but never got it into universe
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: still looking at it
<StrikeForce> kk
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: well the package ends up essentially empty\
<ajmitch> so installation is broken
<ajmitch> the only files are in /usr/share/doc/rufus & /usr/share/menu
<StrikeForce> hmmm
<StrikeForce> running the install script installs it into /usr/bin
<StrikeForce> and also /usr/share/rufus
<ajmitch> I build in pbuilder, there were a few complaints
<ajmitch> seeing this: cp rufus.desktop /usr/share/applications
<ajmitch> does not look good
<StrikeForce> well I can't think of another way to put the desktop icon into /usr/share/applications
<ajmitch> # Add here commands to install the package into debian/rufus.
<ajmitch> /bin/sh install
<ajmitch> install: `BitTorrent' is a directory
<ajmitch> install: `build' is a directory
<ajmitch> install: `debian' is a directory
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: that puts it into the dir for the person *building* the package
<StrikeForce> not on the install?
<ajmitch> DESTDIR is defined as a prefix
<ajmitch> not at all
<StrikeForce> so I should add it to the install script?
<ajmitch> you should use dh_install
<ajmitch> and install using the DESTDIR variable that is defined
<ajmitch>  /bin/sh install is seriously broken as well
<StrikeForce> is it?
<ajmitch> as it redefines DESTDIR
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<ajmitch> so everything ends up polluting /usr on the build machine
<ajmitch> and never owned by a package
<ajmitch> which is why I use pbuilder to test building these :)
<StrikeForce> so use dh_install to cp files for me instead?
<ajmitch> it can do that
<StrikeForce> yeah
<StrikeForce> I'm reading up on it now
<ajmitch> first, I'd fix your install script to not redo DESTDIR
<StrikeForce> its a simple move
<StrikeForce> so comment it out altogheter
<ajmitch> there looks to be some non-free binary code in the tarball
<StrikeForce> will that end up getting used
<StrikeForce> which one?
<ajmitch> mfc72.dll, msvcr71.dll
<StrikeForce> well they aren't needed for linux
<ajmitch> they are the reason your package is so big, and they cannot be distributed at all
<StrikeForce> should I delete them and create a patch for it
<StrikeForce> being the patch to delete them
<ajmitch> this is a case for repacking the tarball
<StrikeForce> or just delete them then create a deb from that
<StrikeForce> I just downloaded the source off of the web
<ajmitch> yes, and that is usual
<ajmitch> but in this case you have to recreate the tarball
<StrikeForce> so I'm unsure as to why if they are not allowed to be distributed they are
<StrikeForce> yeah ok no worries
<ajmitch> they can be redistributed but not put in ubuntu, I believe :)
<ajmitch> since I'm not sure what license is attached to them
<ajmitch> but they're still not free software ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: where is your review? ,-) no advocating
<StrikeForce> That is not in the license
<ajmitch> \sh: pfft, you can wait ;)
<StrikeForce> the only licenses are the ones in the tarball
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: I know, remove them...
<StrikeForce> I have
<StrikeForce> and recreated the tar ball
<ajmitch> thanks
<StrikeForce> thats ok
<ajmitch> \sh: I only took a quick look at ktemperature before getting back to helping StrikeForce :)
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: is any of the geoip data included?
<StrikeForce> erm
<StrikeForce> I'll check
<ajmitch> if so, you may run into trouble
<StrikeForce> I would say so since there is a license for it in there
<StrikeForce> which I forgot to add :(
<StrikeForce> The GeoIP C Library is licensed under the GPL.  For details see
<StrikeForce> the COPYING file.
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: GPL-incompatible
<StrikeForce> how does that work?
<ajmitch> it is similar to the BSD advertising clause, which adds additional restrictions
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: for the data license, not the C lib
<ajmitch> btw unicows.dll should also be removed :)
<StrikeForce> I've removed all the dll's
<StrikeForce> just doing a rm *.dll
<ajmitch> ok thanks
<StrikeForce> no worries
<StrikeForce> can you find the data cause I can't
<ajmitch> I don't see any
<ajmitch> so nothing falls under that bad license
<StrikeForce> seems like it
<StrikeForce> don't know why its included then?
<SloMo> \sh: you've a comment for njam ;)
<ajmitch> because they included the file as-is
<StrikeForce> ah k
<StrikeForce> anyways time to start from scratch
<StrikeForce> is there anything else wrong with it?
<ajmitch> with nothing referring to that file
<\sh> SloMo: what?
<ajmitch> sure :)
<StrikeForce> apart from not using dh_install and the script
<ajmitch> debian/rules needs cleaned up of junk
<ajmitch> debian/ has *.ex files that can be removed
<SloMo> \sh: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=411
<StrikeForce> the post /pre ones
<ajmitch> yes, *.ex are example files
<StrikeForce> wouldn't debian use them for removing files?
<ajmitch> they are examples only
<StrikeForce> k
<ajmitch> that is why they are named like that
<ajmitch> you need to build-depend on python
<StrikeForce> kk
<ajmitch> since the install script uses it
<ajmitch> and the changelog needs the distribution to be set to breezy
<\sh> SloMo: yeah...3 paragraphs?
<\sh> of GPL2
<\sh> outch
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, I added a note about it on PackagingTips, iirc
<ajmitch> or ReviewingTips
<StrikeForce> done and done
<\sh> oh ok...let me change it
<ajmitch> right, I really need to get to bed ASAP :)
<ajmitch> sorry that I can't do more reviewing
<\sh> ok...changed
* ajmitch has work in the morning, already 1am :(
<StrikeForce> kk
<StrikeForce> take care
<StrikeForce> thanks heaps
<StrikeForce> it is very much appreciated
<ajmitch> no problems
<ajmitch> bbl, night all
<sistpoty> gn8 ajmitch
<StrikeForce> night
<SloMo> gn8 ajmitch
<sistpoty> bye all
<\sh> ok..new fixed version of njam uploaded to revu
<Yagisan> G'day
<mgalvin> hi all
<Yagisa1> G'day
<bddebian> Howdy
<\sh> hey bddebian mgalvin Yagisa1
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<Yagisa1> G'day \sh
<mgalvin> if anyone has time, i uploaded some fixes for revu to my new packages... mmsrip, cegui-mk2, and gperfection2
<\sh> mgalvin: I'm doing now some review stuff
<\sh> well...I just fixed the qt ftbfs
<mgalvin> \sh: cool thanks!
<bddebian> rockin'
<\sh> mgalvin: so this evening I have to look over some packages...
<SloMo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya SloMo.  How are yoU?
<mgalvin> \sh: k
<pef> hi
<mgalvin> SloMo: i fixed my gperfection2 package according to you suggestions
<SloMo> bddebian: fine :) just have some headaches because of the weather
<SloMo> mgalvin: ok, i'll look at it later
<|QuaD-> so i am not sure if my motherboard is messed up or if it is breezy!
<bddebian> SloMo: Aye, I have a major cold because of the weather.. :-(
<bddebian> Hello pef
<|QuaD-> i haven't been able to boot into X for about a month
<|QuaD-> since the whole X transformation
* Nafallo have been using X all the time except maybe two days
<|QuaD-> Nafallo: my X is all messed up, the picture is just random colors, but terminal looks fine
<pef> the Version field of a desktop file refers to the desktop file specification revision, no to the software version, right ? http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-0.9.4.html#recognized-keys (not sure of my english )
<Yagisa1> pef: yes, that would be the spec version
<\sh> ok...going home
<\sh> cu later dudes
<pef> Yagisa1: ok, thanks !
<Yagisa1> perf: no problems
<Yagisa1> G;day, I have a lintian override file (deng.lintian-override) that lintian is ignoring,
<Yagisa1> It is several lines of deng: binary-without-manpage /usr/games/deng/lib/libjhexen.so
<Yagisa1> etc, for all the libs that it wants a manpage for
<Yagisa1> have I made a syntax error ?
<ivoks> hi!
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<SloMo> hum... can someone test whether this builds?
<SloMo> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=342
<Yagisa1> SloMo: i386 or amd64 ?
<SloMo> doesn't matter
<Yagisa1> I'll build it
<SloMo> thanks :)
<GazerWork> SloMo, hi!, can you re-review this http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=374 ?
<mgalvin> SloMo: i also have it builing now
<GazerWork> SloMo, I'm getting no errors from lintian :/
<SloMo> GazerWork: later... first i have to fix something ;)
<SloMo> GazerWork: what lintian version?
<Yagisa1> Anybody help with my lintian question ?
<GazerWork> SloMo, 1.23.10ubuntu1
<SloMo> GazerWork: that's weird... hm, i have a second look later :) and the lintian on revu only checks the source package, not the binary
<GazerWork> SloMo, I see, anyway, my lintian run over binary package is empty :S
<GazerWork> SloMo, the error that you report sounds like the debian/patch files was not applied
<mgalvin> SloMo: dirac built for me on i386
<Yagisa1> SloMo: built 3 debs on amd64
<SloMo> ok, fine :) thanks
<Yagisa1> SloMo, any more ? my pbuilder is bored
<SloMo> hm... no :)
<Yagisa1> OK
<mgalvin> Yagisa1: you could try building my packages if you have time... gperfection, mmsrip, and cegui-mk2
<mgalvin> let me know if they work for you
<Yagisa1> mgalvin: sure I build them in amd64 (not much else to do why I figure out why lintian hates my overrides)
<mgalvin> Yagisa1: thnx
<Yagisa1> mgalvin: gperfection2 building now
<Yagisa1> brb
<ivoks> jesus... i'll update my breezy for days :)
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<Yagisan> mgalvin: gperfection2 and mmsrip build on amd64 (breezy)
<mgalvin> Yagisan: cool thanks!
<Yagisan> mgalvin: my net connection dropped out, I'll test cegui in a few moments
<Yagisan> mgalvin: cegui failed to build in breezy (unmet deps in a current pbuilder),
<Yagisan> mgalvin: and it failed to build in a hoary pbuilder (all deps met)
<Yagisan> mgalvin: configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in . ./.. ./../..
<SloMo> \sh: are you back?
<pef> bye !
<mgalvin> Yagisan: hmm, ok, i will take a look, thnx
<Yagisan> mgalvin: no problems
<SloMo> anybody here who wants to upload something for me?
<mgalvin> SloMo, what do you need uploaded?
<SloMo> a small fix for faad2 and faac
<mgalvin> i should be able to
<mgalvin> upload it to revu you mean right?
<SloMo> no... universe ;)
<Yagisan> mgalvin: I think his fix should go to breezy, not revu
<mgalvin> oh, no i can't then, not yet anyway ;)
<Yagisan> I give up on the override file. It can wait till later, their harmless warnings anyway.
<Yagisan> I've been going through hoarys games
<Yagisan> most of them seem to be one source, one binary for the data files
<Yagisan> can anyone thing of one that is one source, multiple binaries for the data files ?
<Yagisan> s/thing/think/
<mgalvin> Yagisan: what where the missing deps reported for cegui, if you still have it around?
<Yagisan> mgalvin: I think it was a gtk dep that hasn't been updated (at least on my mirror), all deps are fine on hoary
<SloMo> GazerWork: i'll look at ceferino again now...
<SloMo> GazerWork: got exactly the same lintian errors/warnings...
<SloMo> mgalvin: ping?
<mgalvin> SloMo: pong
<mgalvin> whats up
<SloMo> mgalvin: you have to create a manpage... even when it's such a small and simple program ;) and please extend debian/copyright a bit... it should contain the 3 paragraphs as in the source files... and something similar to "Copyright (c) YEAR, YEARS Name"
<SloMo> mgalvin: other than that the package looks ok and builds
<kezz> hi there, currently trying to help out with UniverseUnmetDeps (gabber to more precise). I have installed pbuilder as per the howto and have started a rebuild. the UnmetDeps page says produce a debdiff and then post it somewhere. How do I produce a debdiff?
<SloMo> kezz: debdiff oldversion.dsc newversion.dsc
<kezz> ah i c the command i am running is sudo pbuilder build gabberXXX.dsc
<kezz> will that create the new version for me?
<kezz> is there any decent docs that explains all this?
<kezz> i saw the debian package maintainer's guide but that was more for new packages
<SloMo> kezz: add a new entry with a new version number in the changelog and pdebuild / dpkg-buildpackage will create you a new dsc file
<kezz> is that new entry made using dh_make?
<Yagisan> dch -i
<kezz> ah ok thanks
<Yagisan> :)
<kezz> I might write this up as I'm learning
<kezz> then other people that want to help out can read it
<SloMo> kezz: and for the new version number... when it's a package without ubuntu version add a build1 when it's just a rebuild or ubuntu1 when you have to change something... and when it's already an ubuntu version just set it higher ;)
<bddebian> kezz: You might also want to look at the MOTUWannabeTips page on the wiki :-)
<kezz> bddebian, yes i read that but still a lil confused
<bddebian> Oh, OK :-)
<kezz> so i get the source, dch -i to add to changelog then rebuild
<kezz> but aren't i rebuilding the old dsc?
<bddebian> No, you are creating a new one
<SloMo> kezz: how do you rebuild?
<kezz> hmm when i download the source package i have a dsc, a gabber src subdir, a gabber diff.gz and a gabber orig.gz
<kezz> i cd'd to the subdir and did dch -i
<kezz> then cd ..'d
<kezz> and ran sudo pbuilder build gabber.dsc
<SloMo> nope... stay in the directory and call pdebuild...
<kezz> ah ok :)
<kezz> thanks
<SloMo> this will create a new diff.gz and dsc file and calls pbuilder to build it
<kezz> i see
<kezz> and they will be put where?
<SloMo> you can do the first step by hand by calling dpkg-buildpackage
<SloMo> they will be put next to the old ones
<kezz> ah i see thanks
<kezz> and i guess the new version numbers will be automatically appended?
<SloMo> by dch? in some cases the correct one, yes... but better check the version number and correct it when it's wrong
<kezz> i have added build1 to the current number
<SloMo> sounds correct... what is the complete version now?
<kezz> gabber-0.8.8 $build1
<SloMo> hm no... that's wrong
<SloMo> the version in the archives already is 0.8.8-5build1
<SloMo> so just increment the 1
<SloMo> mgalvin: just notice me when you've uploaded a new version
<mgalvin> SloMo: ok i will do
<mgalvin> quick question...
<mgalvin> i have not created man pages before, where do they normally go?
<mgalvin> when building them to i just add something to the make file
<SloMo> just use dh_installman for installing
<mgalvin> and should i create a -doc package or should it just go in the same package
<SloMo> and i would recommend to write the manpage as docbook and convert it to a manpage
<SloMo> the same package
<SloMo> hm, look at my fatsort upload in revu for an example
<mgalvin> ok so will dh_installman do the translation, or do i have to do it in some other step
<SloMo> dh_installman just installs the manpage to /usr/share/man/.... and gzips it
<mbreit> hi all
<SloMo> hi mbreit
<mgalvin> SloMo, good example, i will follow that, thanks again
<SloMo> feel free to copy the manpage and just change the text
<GazerWork> SloMo, sorry, was in meeting ...
<GazerWork> SloMo, what steps are using to create the .deb file?
<SloMo> pdebuild
<GazerWork> SloMo, using orig.tar.gz, .dsc and .diff.gz only?
<SloMo> no... unpacked the stuff and called pdebuild in that directory
<GazerWork> SloMo, you don't apply the patch?
<GazerWork> SloMo, the upstream Makefile install these documents that lintian report, so I create patch to modify the Makefile.am
<SloMo> what patch? the diff.gz? sure... dpkg-source -x does this...
<SloMo> and the patch in debian/patches should be applied while building
<GazerWork> SloMo, oks, so you first run dpkg-source and then pdebuild ?
<SloMo> yes... well i called pbuilder build on the .dsc file now... but when this yields a different result something is really broken ;)
<SloMo> exactly the same lintian errors/warnings
<SloMo> and the patch is applied: Trying patch debian/patches/01_clean_doc_install.patch at level 0...success.
<GazerWork> sladen, i'm trying with pbuilder now, running debian/rules binary after dpkg-source does not report anything
<GazerWork> s/sladen/SloMo/
<GazerWork> SloMo, how can I tell pdebuild that run lintian ?
<SloMo> no idea... run it by hand ;)
<GazerWork> SloMo, oks
<GazerWork> SloMo, well, now I can reproduce the error, now I'll try to fix them :)
<SloMo> fine :) just tell me when you've fixed them
<GazerWork> oks, thanks a lot
<Tonio> hi there
<Tonio> anyone here heared about a problem with kde 3.4.2 and usb keys ?
<Tonio> I don't want to report a bug if this a local problem ;)
<Nafallo> gaah!
<Nafallo> mailflood!!
<SloMo> siretart: ping?
<kezz> SloMo, re the gabber rebuild. sorry i was afk for a while. so gabber-0.8.8build1 is already in the repo. does that mean the UnmetDeps is out of date as gabber is listed as a package that needs work and when i apt-get the source 0.8.8 $ is the version i get.
<shawarma> Hehe.. I was just browsing the Wiki again and I found the section about letting people become MOTUs quickly during the pre-hoary period... Why is that still there?
<\sh> kezz: it can be, that this package FTBFSed
<\sh> so the source is in the archive, but the binaries never built
<\sh> re btw
<SloMo> kezz: gabber is broken... but seems to need a plain rebuild... make it build2
<kezz> ok
<kezz> what does FTBFS mean? if its polite enough to say in chan
<tseng> fails to build from source
<SloMo> fails to build from source
<Nafallo> failed to build from source
<tseng> holy snap
<Nafallo> hehe
<kezz> ah cool thanks
<sistpoty> hiho
<kezz> also when i've built a package with pbuilder, do the downloaded packages that were needed to perform the build removed automatically or is there a command i need to flush them
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<shawarma> Does anyone know why this is still there: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember#temporary-pre-hoary-universe-maintainer-exception
<tseng> shawarma: because we chose to extend it
<tseng> shawarma: indefinately
<shawarma> tseng: Hmmm... Maybe the title shoudl be changed then :-D
<tseng> meh
<tseng> i will add a note about extension
<tseng> i dont want to make claims that we will allow it forever
<shawarma> Of course not. I'm just saying that the way it is now, it looks like the wiki is out of date.
<sistpoty> kezz: the downloaded packages don
<sistpoty> + 't affect the build environment
<sistpoty> because pbuilder uses a clean environment from a tarball for each build
<kezz> sistpoty, i was wondering more about hdd space
<sistpoty> kezz: ah
<\sh> shawarma: try the command on the page of universeunmetdeps
<tseng> shawarma: i made a comment about extension. thanks.
<sistpoty> kezz: no, they aren't cleaned automatically (reside in /var/cache/pbuilder/aptcache)
<kezz> sistpoty, ok thanks
<sistpoty> kezz: but i don't know, if there's a command to clean those
<sistpoty> np
<kezz> rm should do it surely if necessay
<shawarma> \sh: Huh?
<kezz> necessary*
<sistpoty> hehe, sure
<\sh> shawarma: sorry...not for u...it was just for the unmet deps so for kezz
<kezz> SloMo, ok so it built correctly and i now ran debdiff on the 2 .dsc files. What is the next step (sorry to be a pain)
<SloMo> can the resulting debs be installed?
<kezz> dpkg -i?
<SloMo> yes
<kezz> no it complains about deps not being installed
<kezz> wouldn't dpkg go and get the unmet deps?
<SloMo> does apt-get -f install solve it? or does it try to remove gabber again?
<kezz> can I pm?
<SloMo> sure
<GazerWork> SloMo, I find the error, but I have no idea how to solve it :)
<\sh> GazerWork: what is it?
<GazerWork> after patching Makefile.am I'm not runing autoreconf, so, the Makefile.in is outdated
<GazerWork> how can I run autoreconf using cdbs?
<SloMo> GazerWork: so run autoreconf locally and create a patch from it... autoreconf shouldn't be run on the buildds
<\sh> it's written in the cdbs book :)
<\sh> it's easy
<\sh>  CDBS can be asked to update libtool, autoconf, and automake files, but this behavior is likely to break the build system and is '''STRONGLY''' discouraged. Nevertheless, if you still want this feature, set the following variables :
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_LIBTOOL
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF
<\sh>     * DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOMAKE
<GazerWork> \sh, oks, but is not recomended :), so, I'll do what SloMo say ...
<\sh> no
<\sh> I u have to patch automake.am
<\sh> u have to do this
<\sh> autoreconf is doing the same thing as those 3 vars
<GazerWork> \sh, oks
<Treenaks> or you poke upstream into fixing it ;)
<Treenaks> except we're in upstream-freeze
<\sh> the point is, why do u have to patch makefile.am...is it nescessary (sometimes yes, sometimes no)
<GazerWork> Treenaks, upstream says taht he Makefile.am was made for generic use and don't want to change it only for one distribution
<Treenaks> GazerWork: then it's not really generic, is it
<tseng> ajmitch: spoke with lewing
<GazerWork> Treenaks, i agree
<tseng> ajmitch: one bug is fixed, one is gtk# (fixed in cvs)
<tseng> ajmitch: i am very unhappy at gtk# situation now
<SloMoSnail> tseng: why?
<tseng> because we are in freeze
<tseng> and there a zillion bug fixes in new release  /  cvs
<SloMoSnail> can't we do an exception for that?
<tseng> eh
<tseng> "maybe"
<\sh> SloMoSnail: what app isit?
<tseng> but its a huge release
<tseng> its been months
<tseng> since the last one
<SloMoSnail> \sh: Nafallo already uploaded it ;)
<SloMoSnail> \sh: was faad2 and faac
<\sh> ah
<SloMoSnail> tseng: do you think it's worth the risk of breaking something?
<tseng> i dont think it will break, but i need to test it
<Nafallo> and dirac :-)
<SloMoSnail> tseng: when you need help with that just tell me... i've nothing really usefull to do atm ;)
<tseng> um, ok
<SloMoSnail> tseng: with new release you mean 2.3.90?
<tseng> yes
<SloMoSnail> hm, just notify me when there's a debian package
<tseng> ok
<shawarma> Hmm... The automatic builds are done by sbuild, right? How do they differ from pbuilder builds? I'm asking because I was debugging the mythtv FTBFS thing, and the automatic builds apparantly failed really early while my local pbuilder build fails at the end while linking..
<tseng> the sbuild version was some time ago
<tseng> iiirc it failed on x breakage that is since fixed
<sistpoty> shawarma: does the package have or'ed dependencies (package1 | package2)?
<sistpoty> shawarma: at least at this point sbuild doesn't resolve these as good as pbuilder
<shawarma> siretart: Yes.
<shawarma> Whoops.
<tseng> it dont think it failed on deps
<shawarma> sistpoty: Yes, it has or'ed deps, but that's not the problem, I think.
<shawarma> Just a sec, I'll find a link.
<shawarma> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mythtv/0.18-2/
<shawarma> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mythtv/0.18-2/mythtv_0.18-2_20050815-0921-i386-failed.gz more specifically
<shawarma> You can see it fails because it tries to call some gcc command I've never heard of..
<shawarma> hey, does sbuild use ccache while pbuilder doesn't?
<sistpoty> dunno
<shawarma> I think maybe it does... That might be what is causing the breakage.
<\sh> u can hook ccache into pbuilder but it makes no sense
<shawarma> \sh: No, I don't want that either. Do you know if sbuild uses it?
<\sh> no as default
<\sh> not as default
<shawarma> Ok.. hmm..
<\sh> shawarma: ask on -devel
<shawarma> You can see in the build logs that the build uses ccache.. It might be mythtv that uses it directly, then.
<\sh> but why gcc-3.3?
<sistpoty> shawarma: why does the configure-call fail on sbuild? (why -tune=pentium4?)
<\sh> 1. gcc-3.3 as build-dep is completly wrong...it will pull libqt3-mt and this is build against gcc-4 (ABI break)
<shawarma> sistpoty: No idea. I have absolutely nothing to do with mythtv. I just wanted to help out and that particular bug was the top most one i malone. :-)
<sistpoty> ah, i c ;)
<shawarma> \sh: Oh, yes, that's bound to make something go wrong...  Ok, I guess this particular bug is out of my league. I'm totally lost when it comes to C++.
<crimsun> generally speaking, a package should not have a hard dependency on a version of gcc/g++
<crimsun> (a high-profile exception being the kernel)
<shawarma> crimsun: AFAICS it's because libavcodec doesn't build with gcc 4.0
<\sh> then gcc-3.4
<shawarma> crimsun: and libavcodec is for some reason included in mythtv..
<\sh> but never gcc-3.3
<sistpoty> crimsun: it must not build-dep on a specific g++-version, if it uses another c++-lib
<shawarma> sistpoty: No, of course not.
<\sh> if it's not building properly with gcc/g++-3.4/4.0 it should be thrown into upstreams face
<crimsun> shawarma: does mythtv's ./configure script allow specifying building against an external libavcodec tree?
<shawarma> crimsun: Dunno. I could look into it.
<tseng> for the record
<tseng> the guy who fixes mythtv ftbfs is my hero
<\sh> lol
<\sh> wait
<shawarma> crimsun: All I've done so far is just download the package and run it through pbuilder to verify the bug report.
<\sh> shawarma: it comes with an own version of ccache
<sistpoty> hm... have you looked at the mythtv maintainer? ;)
<shawarma> crimsun: But I'll see if I can make it use an external libavcodec. That's a good idea.
<shawarma> \sh: Argh... It doesn't even use the system one?
<crimsun> I know that libavcodec from upstream ffmpeg does build with gcc-4.0, because vlc uses it
<crimsun> eww, included ccache?
<\sh> shawarma: elmo said: sbuild doesn't use ccache...I believe him...and from the configure statement...it uses it's own
<\sh> crimsun: ogra fixed ffmpeg for gcc-4, right?
<shawarma> \sh: right... Ok, then I'm back to not understanding why my build almost finishes, while the sbuild one fails almost right away..
<SloMoSnail> \sh: wtf... throw something hard at upstreams head...
<crimsun> \sh: quite possibly; I pulled an ffmpeg cvs snapshot
<shawarma> Argh, fsck it. I'll give it another shot. I'll get back to you.
<\sh> w8..lemme lock
<\sh> s/lock/look/
<shawarma> Why does everyone include their own libavcodec? I don't get it. mplayer does it too.
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> ok...first thing
<\sh> remove gcc-3.3
<\sh> lets try with gcc-4
<\sh> secondly
<\sh> libmysqlclient10 is replaced by 14
<shawarma> If you look at the debian changelog entry for 0.18-1..
<shawarma> No, wait.
<shawarma> That's ancient.
<\sh> shawarma: read -devel ,-)
<shawarma> Just did..
<shawarma> I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the difference between buildd and sbuild. The build log says sbuild in the first line, so I guessed it uses sbuild. Am I wrong?
<\sh> it sounds like this: sbuild doesn't use ccache, but the buildd yes...so the buildds are build with sbuild
<shawarma> That didn't help much.. buildd uses ccacache. sbuild does not use ccache. So buildd builds with sbuild. What?
<lamont> shawarma: what's causing the mythtv breakage is the fact that it tries to use g++-3.3 when it's not installed on the system (no build-dep)
<lamont> buildd uses build, and a package is installed in the chroot which diverts gcc, g++, etc and runs them with ccache instead
<lamont> buildd is the thing that gets packages and hands them to sbuild to build.  sbuild builds packages, but only what it's told.
<shawarma> mythtv DOES have a build-dep on gcc-3.3
<lamont> yeah, but not g++-3.3
<lamont> and the failure is running g++-3.3
<shawarma> Oh...
<shawarma> Right, right.. Now I'm getting it. :-D
<\sh> i changed the build-deps now
<\sh> it's building
<shawarma> \sh: You changed the libmysqlclient10 to libmysqlclient14 and the gcc-3.3 to gcc-3.4?
<sistpoty> it doesn't build on gcc-4, i just checked... (ok, ok I'm back to revu2 ;)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> and added g++-3.4 as well
<sistpoty> btw. \sh, any news about elma?
<\sh> no
<\sh> next time when we have TB and elmo is around..
<sistpoty> ok
<\sh> ah colony 3 just installed on R200
<lamont> fwiw, the gcc-opt package diverts g{cc,++}-{3.3,3.4,4.0}, so those files always exist, but then you get no-such-file errors for (say) g++-3.3.gcc-opt (which is where the real gcc-3.3 is diverted to)
<shawarma> I may have just figured out why it worked (well almost) in my pbuilder. It's a hoary pbuilder that I upgraded... The upgrade didn't remove the gcc-3.3 and g++-3.3 that was already there..
<lamont> upgrades don't tend to remove packages unless something newer conflicts with it
<shawarma> lamont: Exactly.
<shawarma> Are gcc 3.4 and 4.0 ABI compatible?
<\sh> hmmm...does anybody uses a xircom pcmcia isdn adapter?
<sistpoty> shawarma: afaik yes
<ajmitch> morning
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> tseng: great, so I guess we have to hold off on new f-spot then
<shawarma> sistpoty: I see.
<tseng> ajmitch: yes
<tseng> ajmitch: please.
<ajmitch> that's a shame
<tseng> he said this week i think
<tseng> or something
<ajmitch> so we can hopefully get it into sid at least
<tseng> there are real bugs so
<tseng> but i guess its your package now
<tseng> upload with crashers if you like
<ajmitch> ok, I thought you meant the bugs would be fixed in a week or so :)
<tseng> they will
<ajmitch> if I upload a buggy package I have to deal with the bugreports
<tseng> they are fixed now if you pull cvs and backport
<ajmitch> and gtk# issues?
<\sh> ah...
<\sh> mythtv build...
<tseng> i asked meebey if he is doing 2.3.90
<tseng> no reply
<ajmitch> but it doesn't use 2.x?
<\sh> I'll upload
<tseng> it does
<tseng> or, better, it does now
<ajmitch> I see
<ajmitch> was that changed in cvs as well?
<tseng> yes, see changelog
<ajmitch> I'll have to grab it first
<tseng> right
<ajmitch> but I've got to get ready for work now
<tseng> ok.
<ajmitch> I 'll talk to  you later then
<\sh> shawarma: mythtv uploaded
<\sh> shawarma: u do the amd64 stuff
<\sh> ;)
<chillywilly> I'm going off the Rails on a crazy train
<\sh> ozzy
<shawarma> \sh: It worked?
<\sh> shawarma: it build
<shawarma> \sh: LOL! That bug has been around for so long, and that was all it took?
<\sh> shawarma: but it can ftbfs on amd64
<shawarma> \sh: Ok. Why?
<shawarma> I've never touched anything amd64.
<\sh> because of int and long and void * to int
<\sh> or vice versa
<shawarma> Oh, that sort of thing.
<\sh> tseng: call me hero dude
<tseng> \sh: my hero
<\sh> hahahaha
<sistpoty> *g*
<tseng> you rock so hard
<\sh> MOTUs will rock
<\sh> shawarma: u check the buildds while I'm sleeping ;-)
<shawarma> \sh: Hehe. I'm going to bed too. I'm in Denmark, so we're in the same tz.
<\sh> shawarma: ah :)
<shawarma> \sh: Will you close the bug?
<shawarma> \sh: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/741
<\sh> shawarma: if it's build on all archs yes
<\sh> jesus it's only on i386
<shawarma> \sh: Cool. Well, I'm logging off now. Thanks for all your help. It's been educating!
<shawarma> \sh: What do you mean?
<\sh> mmx pentium4 etc. it's only for x86
<\sh> no it's for all
<\sh> strange
<\sh> lets see tomorrow
<shawarma> Sure thing.
<\sh> ok..I'm going to bed as welll
<\sh> -l
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<\sh> and I didn't do what I normally wanted to do
<SloMoSnail> gn8 \sh... err hero ;)
<\sh> anyways...I'm off
* ajmitch is back
<SloMoSnail> hi ogra :)
<ogra> hey
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-24
<Mez> \sh_away, $100 laptops?
<sistpoty> <-- off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 all
<tseng> ajmitch: ok here is the score. one bug fixed in gtk-sharp 2.3 (confirmed by me), one fix pending in f-spot cvs
<tseng> ajmitch: the 3rd bug i found i cant reproduce on this box, and neither can lewing
<ajmitch> so I'd have to get the cvs snapshot, as I can't backport a switch to 2.x :)
<ajmitch> and ETA on new f-spot release?
<tseng> beats me
<tseng> 15:14 < lewing> I'll make a 0.1.1 in a week or so
<tseng> hows that
<ajmitch> sounds good
<tseng>  /lastlog for the win
<tseng> so.. 2.3
<tseng> the score so far
<tseng> one patch (muine), many rebuilds (monodevelop)
<tseng> MD runs, but the templates need love
<tseng> now im not so gung ho about getting on -devel and asking for exemption
<tseng> sort of sucktacular
<mgalvin> slomo: ping
<mgalvin> well if anyone has time i updated my packages in revu, thanks in advance for reviewing them
<mgalvin> ls
<jabra> anyone if qt4 is in breezy?
<theantix> "apt-cache search qt4" returns zero results...
<Nafallo> Accepted qt4-x11 4.0.0-3 (source)
<jabra> ya I am trying to get it to workin currenetly in hoary but without any luck
<jabra> anyone have experience with it?
<tseng> \sh_away: haha you are the coolest
* ajmitch is out for the weekend, bye all :)
<c0rrupt_> aparently there is a hole in proftpd, but the repos are not up to date
<siretart> c0rrupt_: references?
<c0rrupt_> nessus
<c0rrupt_> i did a local scan
<c0rrupt_> want the scan log?
<theantix> ubuntu main has vsftpd though right?
<c0rrupt_> ?
<c0rrupt_> siretart, do you want me to send my nessus report?
<c0rrupt_> i actually have many vuls but i just ran apt-get upgrade.
<siretart> c0rrupt_: yes, please
<c0rrupt_> what format do you want it i
<c0rrupt_> in
<siretart> ascii?
<c0rrupt_> do you have nessus?
<c0rrupt_> i can send it in the nessus format....
<siretart> no, sorry
<c0rrupt_> ok,
<c0rrupt_> acutally there is many vuln
<c0rrupt_> proftpd is just one
<siretart> c0rrupt_: can you make a list of CAN #?
<c0rrupt_> can what?
<siretart> c0rrupt_: if you can, it would be very great, if you could mail them to security-review@lists.ubuntu.com
<c0rrupt_> ok
<c0rrupt_> take a good look at it, there is many vulns
<c0rrupt_> at apparently im up to date.
<c0rrupt_> so a lot of people are probably unsecure
<siretart> you are sure that arn't false positives?
<c0rrupt_> yes
<siretart> you can look up can numbers here: http://cve.mitre.org/cve/
<c0rrupt_> ok, mail sent
<c0rrupt_> gaim also has security holes
<c0rrupt_> new version fixed them
<siretart> brb
<c0rrupt_> did you get the mail?
<siretart> not yet
<c0rrupt_> i got a message back
<c0rrupt_> it say
<c0rrupt_> says*
<c0rrupt_> your message... Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
<c0rrupt_> i sent the scan log as an attachment, i prolly should have just pasted it into the body of the message
<c0rrupt_> should i re-send?
<c0rrupt_> ?
<c0rrupt_> siretart, im leaving soon so i need to know if you got it
<c0rrupt_> i sent it again. with the log in the body of the email
<Treenaks> ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4162692.stm
<siretart> c0rrupt__: you can check it yourself here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/
<siretart> c0rrupt__: in doubt, CC: me (siretart@tauware.de)
<c0rrupt__> ok
<c0rrupt__> is it there yet?
<pef> hello
<dredg> morning.
<pef> is knights-0.6.4-beta0-ubuntu1 a correct version ?
<pef> for a program named knights-0.6.4-beta, and not yet packaged
<dredg> looks correct
<tseng> \sh:
<tseng> mythtv_0.18-2ubuntu1_20050818-2347-i386-successful.gz
<\sh> tseng: yes..but the rest not
<sedak> hello
<sedak> is someone here ?
<dredg> no one here except for us chickens
<sedak> hi
<SloMo_> hi sedak ;)
<sedak> i've made a new package
<sedak> for a driver i needed
<SloMo_> what driver?
<sedak> for old wifi card
<sedak> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12679
<sedak> well
<sedak> i'm not a maintainer
<sedak> but it seems to work fine with make-kpkg and module-assistant
<SloMo_> hm, ask siretart for upload rights on revu, upload it there and we'll see :)
<sedak> ok
<ogra__> hmm, why did you make a separate package instead of convincing the kernel maintainr to include it in the linux package ?
<sedak> because
<ogra__> ??
<sedak> i'm not sure if it's really stable
<sedak> i'm not the one who made the driver
<sedak> but it work fine with my card
<ogra__> is it considered for inclusion in the kernel tree upstream ?
<sedak> bafore i used ndiswrapper, and it make ubuntu frozen
<SloMo_> sedak: better an unstable driver than no driver i think ;)
<ogra__> if so, and if fabbione considers it stable enough, we can include it in the linux package
<sedak> euh i didn't ask actually
<sedak> but if we make it a separate package, it's a good way to test it, isn't it ?
<ogra__> could you find that out ? then it could probaly get included in our default kernel... its a bit odd to have network card drivers in universe...
<sedak> ok
<ogra__> sine you will need network access to install it ;)
<ogra__> since even
<sedak> so i could make a patch for the kernel
<sedak> and then ask to fabbione to add it ?
<ogra__> sedak, talk to fabbione in #ubuntu-devel, he's the kernel maintainer
<sedak> ok
<ogra__> he will know if it can get included or needs to stay in universe
<sedak> ok, i asked siretart and he added me to the keyring
<sedak> but as it's my first time ...
<sedak> what should i do now ?
<siretart> sedak: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<sedak> thanks :-)
<sedak> it's uploaded
<siretart> sedak: there are many dh_make (or others) leftovers
<siretart> like http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/incoming/rtl8180-kernel-0508191415/rtl8180-kernel-0.22.0cvs050817/debian/README.Debian
<siretart> or debian/rules
<siretart> sedak: please clean them up
<siretart> if it isn't going to ubuntu kernel, that is
<sedak> ok
<sedak> siretart, what do you exactly mean  ?
<sladen> siretart: wow, I was just looking at that driver earlier...
<sedak> the debian/rules need to be there to build the module with module-assistant ...
<sedak> and the README.Debian explain how to build it
<siretart> sedak: there are many unnecessary comments left over
<ogra> sedak, but yu normally rip out all th unneded template stuff from this file
<sedak> ok
<sedak> it's uploaded again ...
<Yagisan> SloMo_ ping
<SloMo_> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> SloMo_: deng is perfect now. new upload finished
<Yagisan> SloMo_: now to fix the lintian errors on my installers :)
<mgalvin> hi all
<Yagisan> Is it ok to ignore lintian warnings caused by dh_installmenu ?
<SloMo_> Yagisan: depends ;) are the warnings correct or just false warnings?
<Yagisan> SloMo_: it's just a menu-file-in-usr-lib warning.
<Yagisan> SloMo_: thats where dh_installmenu puts the menu entry
<SloMo_> why is it in /usr/lib?
<SloMo_> hmm
<SloMo_> sounds wrong ;)
<Yagisan> old location for menu command
<Yagisan> according to lintian it moved, but the menus works there
<mgalvin> SloMo_: just letting you know that mmsrip is updated, i added the man page and cleaned up a few other things too
<SloMo_> Yagisan: hmm... don't know
<SloMo_> mgalvin, Yagisan: i'll look at your packages on sunday as i'm away over the weekend
<Yagisan> I'll ignore it. When debhelper is updated, it'll fix itself
<mgalvin> ok, no rush, thnx
<Yagisan> no problem slomo,
<marcin> hi all
<marcin> I got a question that propably could be a little strange for some debian maintainters
<marcin> but anyway I would like to ask if is this posible to provide source packages that doesn't provide
<marcin> sources at all?
<Yagisan> what do you mean ?
<Yagisan> is it data ?
<marcin> just scripts and some rules to fetch sources when building?
<marcin> for example to build cvs snapshot packages
<Yagisan> I uploaded some sources that fetch data on disk and move it to a location needed by a package
<\sh> marcin: what u mean is "ebuild"?
<marcin> \sh: yes I know
<Yagisan> they might be usefull for you
<tseng> even if it is possible, it would surely be frowned on being in the official archive
<marcin> Yagisan: when can I find these spackages?
<tseng> random cvs snapshotting is evil
<Yagisan> revu, look for any deng-*-installer package
<Yagisan> out of curiosity, what do you need from cvs
<Yagisan> ?
<marcin> Yagisan: currently - emacs
<marcin> Yagisan: but cvs snapshots are just example - my question was general about packages without sources
<Yagisan> ok. try to avoid it if possible.
<Yagisan> I hope my packages were of some use to you
<marcin> Yagisan: you know sometimes it sucks that you need to download all sources when you just want to take a look on some /debian scripts
<marcin> Yagisan: on rpm based distros if you want to know how something was packaged you have to download only small spec file
<marcin> Yagisan: on debian you need to download all sources and additional files
<torkel> marcin: in most cases it is enough to download the .diff.gz
<marcin> torkel: hmm true
<marcin> btw how you guys get info about new versions/releases of software?
<Yagisan> myself, I talk to upstream
<marcin> do you have some sripts that monitor selected cvs repositories and report changes?
<Yagisan> others use watch files
<marcin> I see
<marcin> and when you got some package - do you edit them manually (write rules, manage dependencies) or maybe you have
<marcin> a bunch of templates and scripts?
<marcin> for example what you do when you got somepackage_1.0-1 and you want to create somepackage_1.0-2?
<Yagisan> is somepackage_1.0-1 already an ubuntu package ?
<marcin> Yagisan: ok let's say somepackage_1.0-0ubuntu1 and somepackage_1.0-0ubuntu2
<marcin> Yagisan: to be more specific
<marcin> Yagisan: and another scenario is when you got somepackage_1.0-ubuntu[1-n] 
<marcin> Yagisan: and then developers release somepackage_2.0 and you need to prepare ubuntu packages fot this tree
<marcin> s/fot/for
<Yagisan> I just followed http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-update.en.html
<Yagisan> to update mine
<Yagisan> I just went through your last scenario, about 4 weeks ago
<Yagisan> It was rather painless
<sistpoty> hi folks
<SloMo_> hi sistpoty
<marcin> Yagisan: thanks - my fault I skipped this part of guide
<Yagisan> Glday sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi SloMo_ and Yagisan
<Yagisan> marcin: no problems, I skipped it to, untill upstream did two releases in two days
<sedak> siretart, i think the package is fine now
<sedak> at http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=428
<sedak> what should i do next ?
<sistpoty> sedak: ask motus to have it reviewed (or simply what until a motu reviews it) ;)
<sistpoty> sedak: btw.: have you tried to build it in pbuilder?
<sedak> actually
<sedak> i don't know what is pbuilder ...
<sedak> i'll have a look :-)
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<sistpoty> sedak: this is a kernel-module? shouldn't you build-depend on kernel-headers or s.th. then?
<Yagisan> sedak: your package failed to build in pbuilder
<sedak> :'(
<sedak> ok
<Yagisan> sedak: you need a build dep on bzip2
<sedak> i thought it was build-depend ...
<sedak> that's true
<Yagisan> sedak: /bin/sh: bzip2: command not found
<Yagisan> sedak: your control file only has debhelper in the build-depends line
<sistpoty> sedak: i think you should mixed depends and build-depends ;)
<sistpoty> '/s/mixed/exchange/
<sistpoty> what package should wxpython-packages depend on? wxpython or libwxgtk-python or to one of them with specific version?
<sistpoty> or is there a way to get this done with python:Depends?
* Nafallo is back
<sistpoty> cya later
<havoc> what option do I need to make 'ps' show the group?
<havoc> is that even possible>
<havoc> ?
<slomo> yeah... dirac got accepted :D
<slomo> can someone look at gst-plugins-multiverse after dirac hit the archives?
<GazerWork> slomo, hi!, I uploaded a new version of ceferino package, now it build fine with pbuilder. I would thank you if you can watch it
<sedak> havoc, ps -eH -o pid,user,egid,cmd
<sedak> i don't know if you want the GID, EGID ...
<havoc> sedak: thanx
<havoc> sedak: it was actually chillywilly that was asking
<c0rrupt_> siretart, what was the link you gave me that i could watch for information on my email
<siretart> c0rrupt_: ah, sorry about before, my connection died
<siretart> there seem to be problems with that list
<siretart> can you mail that to me and nafallo?
<c0rrupt_> nafallo?
<c0rrupt_> where do you want me to mail it to
<tseng> \sh: you arent my hero anymore
<tseng> \sh: you didnt fix libmyth depends!
<tseng> \sh: ill fix it tonight maybe
<c0rrupt_> sire..?
<c0rrupt_> whats your email addresses
<siretart> nafallo@magicalforest.se and siretart@tauware.de
<\sh> tseng: amd64 powerpc ftbfs
<tseng> \sh: thats fine but.. depends:
<\sh> argl
<tseng> \sh: has libqt3c102-mt-mysql, doesnt exist since transition
<\sh> shit
<\sh> fck..didn't see that
<c0rrupt_> ok mail sent
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> I'm fighting with shtoom
<siretart> c0rrupt_: how do you count 22 issues?!
<c0rrupt_> huh?
<siretart> c0rrupt_: I wouldn't give that much on that report
<c0rrupt_> its a lot of data..
<c0rrupt_> but its important
<siretart> c0rrupt_: debian/ubuntu are backporting security patches. so only looking at the version number isn;t that good
<c0rrupt_> all those issues should be worked out
<Nafallo> who is joe des? (/me have to get a proxy with backlog)
<c0rrupt_> i am
<Nafallo> ah, could you please do the scan from somewhere !localhost?
<c0rrupt_> i know, localhost is all i could do
<c0rrupt_> but those flaws are still there.
<c0rrupt_> for example gaim and  proftpd are remote
<Nafallo> normally postfix shouldn't turn up on the list, and the ssh stuff is... well, not an issue ;-)
<c0rrupt_> yea
<c0rrupt_> i just sent the whole report
<c0rrupt_> why isnt the newest proftpd server in the repos
<Nafallo> that's why I use vsftpd ;-)
<c0rrupt_> lol...
<c0rrupt_> are you helping with security or no
<Nafallo> I do. that's why I rather run secure services :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> cvs
<siretart> intersting that debian neiter has any DSA
<Nafallo> cvs is secured
<siretart> is this the reported flaw? http://bugs.proftpd.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2645
<siretart> yes, it is
<Nafallo> imagemagick likewise
<siretart> then it is already fixed in the debian package and in breezy
<c0rrupt_> i dont use breezy
<Nafallo> bzip2 to
<c0rrupt_> people in #ubuntu said breezy destroys stuff
<c0rrupt_> and not to use it
<Nafallo> c0rrupt_: could. it's not stable yet :-)
<c0rrupt_> so, what should i do to update my software.
<siretart> hm. the debdiff from hoarys proftpd to breezys proftpd is rather large
<siretart> but mainly bugfixes for several issues
<siretart> c0rrupt_: perhaps you could request a backport from Mez
<c0rrupt_> o.0?
<siretart> c0rrupt_: or do the backport yourself, if you need the fix fast
<c0rrupt_> not nescarily
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> I can't find that CAN on our cve-tool
<siretart> seems to be only in proftpd.org bugzilla
<c0rrupt_> Hm
<siretart> Nafallo: what cvs-tool?
<Nafallo> siretart: ubuntu-cve
<Nafallo> haha. I don't think we will need to fix those ;-)
<Nafallo> siretart: http://www.proftpd.org/docs/RELEASE_NOTES-1.3.0rc2
<c0rrupt_> o.0
<Nafallo> under bugfixes :-P
<siretart> Nafallo: http://changelog.debian.net/proftpd
<siretart> Nafallo: revisions -20 and -19
<Lathiat> siretart: whats the deal with having debian/ in upstream tarballs? (here, me being upstream, should i have my debian/ dir i plan to keep sane in my svn tree?)
<siretart> Lathiat: no. better don't
<siretart> Lathiat: you really want to seperate debian integration and upstream work. even if you are upstram
<jamessan|work> you can keep it in svn, but keep it separate from the source
<Nafallo> siretart: Both can be considered low risk, as they require active involvement on the part of the site administrator in order to be
<Nafallo>  exploited
<Nafallo> siretart: if you will want to put time on them, be my guest :-)
<c0rrupt_> i see,,.
<c0rrupt_> but, what about the others
<siretart> Nafallo: sorry. I'd rather request a backport from Mez
<Nafallo> siretart: indeed
<siretart> c0rrupt_: do you run an cvs pserver?
<c0rrupt_> nope
<siretart> same for cvs, fixed in breezy
<Nafallo> 1:1.12.9-9ubuntu0.1 and hoary
<siretart> ah, ok
<Nafallo> and warty ;-)
<Nafallo> cvs is in main :-)
<Nafallo> main is secured :-)
<Nafallo> except krb5 :-P
<Nafallo> or wait. this will have to be one of those that's not named as in debian
<tseng> Lathiat: i cant find preseed on the wiki, any idea?
<Lathiat> tseng: nope, try debian docs ?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LocalNet?highlight=%28preseed%29
<tseng> this looks like a winner
<tseng> stupid title search
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> isn't mozilla-firefox dropped from breezy?
<Lathiat> ooh shiny
<Lathiat> i could automate reinstallation of my laptop :)
<tseng> yeah i have 10 boxes to build
<tseng> fast
<Lathiat> be cool if you could specify a preseed file
<Lathiat> tseng: heh, what for?
<tseng> they are sniffers
<Lathiat> ah
<tseng> we put ethereal boxes behind all our firewalls
<tseng> for debugging
<Lathiat> yeh you were saying
<tseng> did i tell you about my google map?
<Lathiat> well you definately need some way of specify a uri to a preseed file
<Lathiat> ts	nope ?
<tseng> i made a map with all the data centers in the US
<tseng> you just click one to start a sniffer
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> nice
<tseng> its rad
<Lathiat> oh man
<Lathiat> thats just..
<Lathiat> scary :
<Lathiat> )
* tseng prints the preseed docs and goes back to the lab
<tseng> bye.
<Nafallo> tseng: see you :-)
<Nafallo> siretart: what does revu run, mini-dinstall?
<siretart> Nafallo: revu2 will, revu atm does just drop the files into dirs
<siretart> Nafallo: if you are interested in hacking, you can check out the svn repo: svn co http://siretart.tauware.de/svn/revu2/trunk
<Nafallo> siretart: ah, oki. I will probably want something else. something like what daf has :-)
<siretart> who is daf?
<Nafallo> siretart: rosetta admin and DD :-)
<Lathiat> night all
<Lathiat> 2am is late enough. :)
<siretart> gn8 Lathiat
<siretart> Nafallo: what does he use?
<Nafallo> siretart: people.ubuntu.com/~daf/packages/
<Nafallo> siretart: dunno yet, he's on vacation ;-)
<siretart> Nafallo: looks to me like manual apt-ftparchive
<siretart> Nafallo: look into debarchiver, thats nice for that purpose
<Nafallo> universe does not go on my server ;-)
<Nafallo> apt-ftparchive is main though :-)
<c0rrupt_> SO
<c0rrupt_> whats going to happ?
<Nafallo> c0rrupt_: those things looked like fixed/won't do stuff
<c0rrupt_> bleh
<c0rrupt_> thanks for your troubles anyways then
<Nafallo> no problem
<johny> siretart, i've been told to use pbuilder to fix my package because it couldn't be built with some people, but we i tried, it worked for me
<johny> so i don't know what to do next
<johny> maybe it is because i'm using breezy ...
<siretart> johny: tell them to update their pbuilder
<johny> ok
<johny> well, anyway, anyone'd like who to review the package can do it now
<johny> if they have a rtl8081 chip based wifi card, it could help :-)
<c0rrupt_> i use rtl8180
<johny> c0rrupt_, which driver do you use ?
<johny> ndiswrapper or the free one ?
<c0rrupt_> both
<c0rrupt_> both work
<c0rrupt_> right now im using the one from
<johny> ok
<c0rrupt_> sourceforge
<c0rrupt_> but the ndiswrapper works fine
<johny> i've made a package for this one
<johny> if you want to test it, it'll be cool :-)
<johny> it's here:
<johny> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=439
<Yagisan> johny are you sedak ?
<johny> yes !!
<johny> sorry
<johny> i changed ../nick sedak
<Yagisan> funny you should mention that
<Yagisan> jamie@workhorse:~/pbuilder/ubuntu$ lintian rtl8180-kernel_0.22.0cvs050817-1_i386.changes
<Yagisan> W: rtl8180-kernel source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
<Yagisan> E: rtl8180-kernel source: depends-on-build-essential-package-without-using-version make [build-depends: make] 
<Yagisan> :)
<sedak> i have different name on different server
<sedak> i rebooted and forget to change it
<Yagisan> brb, food
<sedak> oups
<sedak> i haven't seen that appeared
<sedak> i'll try to fix that again ...
<sedak> lintian problem is corrected now
<Yagisan> sedak, is there supposed to be a link in /usr/share/modass/overrides ?
<sedak> yes
<Yagisan> I ask, because browsing through the deb with mc, it shows as a broken link
<sedak> so that module-assistant know that it is a module package
<sedak> yes
<Yagisan> no probs
<sedak> but it is a link into a file of module assistant package
<sedak> and with the depends:, no problem anymore :-)
<Yagisan> ok - I haven't needed to use module-assitant, so I thought it would be smart to ask
<sedak> actually, the better way would be to tell the module-assistant maintainer to add rtl8081 to the static list of known module packages
<sedak> but for now, this is a temporary decision
<ivoks> evening
<\sh> hey ivoks
<ivoks> hey
<ivoks> what's up?
<\sh> strange things are going on ,-)
<ivoks> hehe
<\sh> the pope arrived in my area...and all our tv services are going crazy since then ,-)
<ivoks> haha
<\sh> and somehow all my light went off...*strange*
<ivoks> now is time to catch up with ubuntu development
<ivoks> talking about strange things... my modem responds to AT command, all AT command, except those ATDT and ATDP :)
<\sh> hahaha
<ivoks> but works in Windows :)
<\sh> I just got shtoom with sipgate running :)
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> trying to install nvidia-glx results in installing lvm and mdadm... WTF?
<tseng> ivoks: you dont really need ATDT anyway
<ivoks> tseng: i don't?
<tseng> youd think you wanted to dial. or something.
<ivoks> well, it's not important...
<ivoks> i decided to buy ADSL for my house on sea side :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-25
<marcin> hi all
<marcin> anyone?
<crimsun> hi
<marcin> I need some help with emacs packages
<marcin> crimsun: hi
<crimsun> I think I'll run away screaming now.
<marcin> crimsun: hehe :)
<marcin> crimsun: you don't like emacs? why oh why ;)
<marcin> heh and he propably is far far away now... no way to ask
<crimsun> wtf, did I add gstreamer0.8-plugins as a B-D?
<crimsun> duh!
<bmonty> good evening everyone
<rbelem> bmonty, good evening ,-)
<bmonty> seems pretty quiet in here :)
<rbelem> today is friday... i think the people are a bit tired... hehehe
<pef> hello
<pef> where can I find the official documentation about the path of desktop files ? (/usr/share/applications instead of /usr/share/applnk)
<\sh> morning
<pef> \sh: morning
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> ?? -> mozilla-dev: Depends: mozilla-browser (= 2:1.7.11-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<siretart> yay!
<siretart> finally a working lyx!
<siretart> bob2 promised to upload a new lyx version to sid today, I'm using a package from Georg Baum, lyx upstream
<Yagisan> siretart: ping
<pef> siretart: have you check kile ? ;)
<siretart> pef: I had a short look at kile, I prefer lyx
<siretart> pef: in my department, a lot of ppl are using lyx
<siretart> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> siretart: did one of my uploads get nuked ?
<Yagisan> siretart: according to dput, it went up yesterday, but I don't see it tooday
<Yagisan> siretart: package was deng-jheretic-tp
<siretart> I have deng-jheretic-tp in rejected queue
<siretart> because it was signed with a key not in revu keyring
<Yagisan> should I reupload ?
<Yagisan> that's funny, my key is there
<siretart> did you use a different key?
<siretart> shall I add 4B6E7209, too?
<Yagisan> no
<siretart> strange..
<Yagisan> that's my number
<siretart> strange..
<Yagisan> I had an old key, but that sadly is no longer with us
<siretart> I requeued your upload
<siretart> ok, your upload is now in revu
<Yagisan> thank you. There should only be one or two more new uploads to go
<Yagisan> then I'm finished with what I am sending to revu
<Yagisan> It's odd my key was rejected
<siretart> I think they are very similar to packages you already uploaded, yes?
<Yagisan> basicall a hexen version of whats been uploaded
<Yagisan> upstream did a new release yesterday
<Yagisan> so I need to test, and adjust as required
<Yagisan> mayby delete obsolete packages
<Yagisan> I feel silly, but when I try to login to revu, it says invalid password
<siretart> Yagisan: try the recover password link\
<Yagisan> I did
<siretart> still bad?
<Yagisan> decrypted fine
<Yagisan> yes
<Yagisan> Do I need to be a reviewer to comment on my packages
<Yagisan> ?
<siretart> Yagisan: you need reviewer status for commenting other packages
<siretart> whats your email again?
<Yagisan> jamie_jones_au@yahoo.com.au
<siretart> argl
<siretart> it's because of the '_' in your email, wait. I'll fix that
<Yagisan> :)
<siretart> Yagisan: now your password works. was a bug in revu
<Yagisan> thanks siretart.
<n> I've just tried the latest opensuse beta and I'm very impressed with its 'Suspend to disk' shutdown/boot feature which has halved my boot time. Will breezy implement this too?
<tseng> it already does.
<n> tseng: colony 3 does that?
<tseng> yes.
<n> Last breezy beta I tried was very unstable- whats c3 like? Useable?
<tseng> works for me, your mileage may vary, etc
<tseng> its much improved
<n> Does suspend to disk work under KDE, GNOME or both?
<tseng> suspend to disk is in the kernel
<n> (under colony 3)
<\sh> n: both
<\sh> n: it worked as well on hoary on some laptops
<n> right, I'll have to give it a go then!
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> hey ivoks
<ivoks> what's up?
<\sh> how's life?
<ivoks> heh... great :)
* Nafallo feels embarrased
<Nafallo> I got stuck with my head in the rabbitcage :-/
<ivoks> i met one girl while on vacation :)
<\sh> ivoks: only one?
<ivoks> ok, i met couple of them...
<ivoks> but this one... huh... i'm in love :)
<\sh> hehe
<ivoks> but she's 400km from me :(
<\sh> ivoks: east or west?
<ivoks> southwest :)
<\sh> italy?
<\sh> turkey?
<\sh> come on...tell us...
<ivoks> croatia, you silly boy
<ivoks> there is no girl like croatian girl :)
<\sh> that I said to my ZA-indian girl as well
<ivoks> i see you never were in croatia :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: I see you've never been to Scandinavia :P
<ivoks> Treenaks: :)) i have expirience with them :)
<ivoks> Treenaks: i don't prefere blond girls :)
<ivoks> lot's of swedes were in croatia this summer
<ivoks> and they brought their kids... female kids :)
* \sh preferes as well black, brown or redheads ,-)
<Treenaks> dudes, this is #ubuntu-motu, not #ubuntu-mate
<\sh> ahhaha
<ivoks> :)
<Treenaks> (in the non-Australian sense of that word :))
<Nafallo> those are Swedes to ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: yeah :)
<\sh> we have a discussion about logging of the #ubuntu-de channel...because some people doesn't like the way, the logfiles are published via web
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/tmp/mys.jpg is picture proof of that ;-)
<Nafallo> \sh: we have that issue on #ubuntu.se to.
<\sh> they're frightend that anybody can read their words...and this is sometimes ah well...not positive for them ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: we just tell them to add it to the agenda for next meeting ;-)
* ivoks is in love...
<Treenaks> ok.. expect no more useful work from ivoks until breezy+1 release at least ;)
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<\sh> hahaha
* ivoks is thinking to move from Zagreb to Murter :)
<ivoks> and there is no ADSL :)
* \sh is in love as well...but she has to work 
<\sh> oh sh*t i have to hang my clothes
<Nafallo> ivoks: then it's dep-wait: adsl :-)
<Nafallo> ivoks: tell the girl that to ;-)
* Treenaks Suggests: 56k
<ivoks> Nafallo: who is this? :)
<ivoks> ok, i see i have to show you pictures of croatian girls :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: on the picture? :-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: yeah :)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: your link is slow btw (re: your picture :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: me and my girlfriend since soon three years :-)
<Nafallo> ivoks: re: swedish girls ;-)
<Nafallo> Treenaks: no shit :-P 430kbit in/out :-)
<ivoks> lol non-blond scandinavian
<Treenaks> Nafallo: I thought Sweden was Bandwidth Paradise
<Nafallo> Treenaks: not for everyone :-/
<Nafallo> Treenaks: my KC can do 8Mbit with best effort, they only sell 2Mbit max for it.
<Treenaks> Nafallo: I can get 20mbit/1mbit ADSL2+ if I want
<Nafallo> Treenaks: baah :-P
<Treenaks> (I'll probably get 10/1, but whatever)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: I'm now on 2/1 though
<Nafallo> I usually prefer symmetric ADSL though ;-)
<Nafallo> and this ISP is great, like: do what you want, we won't block no ports.
<Treenaks> Nafallo: SDSL, they only sell up to 2.3/2.3mbit here
<Treenaks> for massive amounts of money/month
<Nafallo> Treenaks: it is ADSL, but shaped to 512/512kbit by them and 430/430kbit by me ;-).
<Treenaks> why 430 by you?
<Treenaks> so you always have 82kbit spare/
<Treenaks> ?
<Nafallo> the damn PPPoE will drop on >= 440kbit
<Nafallo> :-)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: ah, then I have a better deal :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Treenaks> Nafallo: I get pure ethernet (DHCP)
<Treenaks> no additional wrapping
<Treenaks> and soon I'll even get native ipv6 \o/
<ivoks> ok, i'll upload some photos for you :)
<Nafallo> only one ISP in Sweden does that to my knowledge, and that's the one that belonged to the state earlier. they really, really, really, really does suck a lot :-). my father had them when I lived at my parents.
<Treenaks> Nafallo: www.xs4all.nl :)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: should be understandable for Swedes :)
<Nafallo> baah, I need .se ;-)
<Nafallo> atleast to change to them ;-)
<Treenaks> Nafallo: they offer dialup accounts
<Treenaks> Nafallo: ;)
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> hmm, maybe the eight torrents I have running explains why it's a bit slow atm ;-)
<Treenaks> :P
<Nafallo> btw, I have a project from someone ;-)
<Nafallo> convert torrentflux from php to python ;-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img009.jpeg
<Nafallo> I prefer bigger boobs ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i'm still uploading photos :)
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img001.jpeg.html - mom from chezh :)
<Lathiat> haha ivoks
<\sh> ivoks: damnit...u r making me horny ,-)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> em...your pictures
<\sh> lol
<ivoks> i? :))
<\sh> ivoks: the girls
<ivoks> hehe
<\sh> damn..I should write
<ivoks> best photos are still to be uploaded :)
<ivoks> those from night life :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<pef> I have a problem with the path of a desktop file
<Nafallo> ivoks: cute cats :-)
<ivoks> yeah...
<pef> what's the status of /usr/share/applnk ? is it needed by something ?
<\sh> sometimes from kde
<ivoks> gthumb is great app :)
<Lathiat> wtf i just X forwarded soemthing off another box
<Nafallo> indeed
<Lathiat> and all the pixmaps are messed up
<Lathiat> anyway that could be breezys fault?
<Lathiat> hrm worked for the gimp, eog must be broken
<ivoks> Nafallo: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img056.jpeg.html
<ivoks> \sh: check out that girl with black hair :) http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img065.jpeg.html
<\sh> ivoks: go away ,-)
<Nafallo> looks Swedish ;-)
<ivoks> lol
<sistpoty> hi folks
<\sh> hey sistpoty
<ivoks> hello
<Nafallo> morning sistpoty :-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: there is nothing swedish in her :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: except the looks ;-)
<ivoks> hm, i'll upload them again, but without resizing :)
<ivoks> Nafallo: nope :)
<ivoks> this blond one... she's obviusly from chech republic or poland :)
<Nafallo> to me, any of those girls could have been from Sweden ;-)
<ivoks> :))
<Nafallo> hmm, maybe I should make \sh drool ;-)
<Nafallo> \sh: http://www.heartland.nu/~nafallo/elin/
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> did I say, I'm single?
<\sh> and did I say, that I had no *** for over 1 year now?
<ivoks> :))
<Nafallo> \sh: nope ;-) (some of this I knew anyway)
<\sh> I think I have to catch one of those brasilian chicks walking on the streets in kerpen now
<ivoks> \sh: go on vacation :)
<\sh> and give them the spirit of god ,-)
<\sh> lol
<ivoks> i'm sure you'll get laid in croatia :)
<\sh> Nafallo: nice one...:) btw.
<Nafallo> \sh: one of my best friends :-)
<\sh> ivoks: I don't want :)
<ivoks> :>
<\sh> ivoks: I'm waiting for my girl :) u see..I'm older and I don't want to do mistakes anymore :)
<ivoks> \sh: listen...
<ivoks> i didn't want anything seriuos this summer
<\sh> so..no *** without a marriage
<ivoks> but after 2-3 days haning out with this girl, i realized she's great :)
<ivoks> and we started with a "hi" "hi" "let's have ***"
<ivoks> so... you never know...
<\sh> oh well...I'm refusing to think about those actions..;)
<ivoks> Nafallo: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img095.jpeg.small.jpeg
<ivoks> well, guys... this is me :)
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img089.jpeg.html
<ivoks> the one in the shirt :)
<\sh> both are nice ;)
<ivoks> lol
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> hi ivoks!
<ivoks> both are straight :)
<ivoks> siretart: hi
<\sh> ivoks: u should think about going both ways *rotfl*
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> no, i'm fine with 3vs1 (where 1 is one man) :)
<\sh> now we're completly OT
<ivoks> \sh: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img096.jpeg.html - drool :)
<\sh> ah come one
<ivoks> we aren't offtopic
<Nafallo> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img102.jpeg.html :-)
<ivoks> this pictures are uploaded with ubuntu, and web album is created with gthumb :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: is there another way to do it? :-)
<sistpoty> cya later
* Nafallo uses _only_ Ubuntu :-)
* ivoks too
<ivoks> finally my modem works too :)
<ivoks> lspci told me it's smartlink, so i got my self smartlink drivers
<ivoks> and, as i said, everything worked, but ATDT and ATDP
<ivoks> now... i tried lspci -vvv
<ivoks> and check out that crap - it's conexant :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: you can package those i386/amd64 drivers for us :-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: i use conexant drivers now
<Nafallo> hmm, oki
<ivoks> acctually, i install them when i need, and deinstall them after - i get kernel panic with that module loaded
<\sh> it's bad, that my quickcam is not working on linux
<ivoks> Nafallo: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/summer2005/img114.jpeg.html
<siretart> Mez: ping
<siretart> Mez: if you are at it, can you please make proftpd backported?
<siretart> Mez: there are some security issues fixed in the version in breezy, we had yesterday someone concerned about this
<siretart> ok, now back to prepare-party-mode..
<\sh> going to sleep at least 2 hours more...laters
<Treenaks> I have a much beetter pic of Andrew! http://foodfight.org/fotos/2004/12-08%20Ubuntu%20Conference/?img_0001.jpg ;)
<Treenaks> (re: planet ubuntu)
<tseng> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=414&slide=8
<tseng> im reminded of how ugly this start page is
<tseng> is someone hacking a new one?
<sedak> hello motus !
<sedak> anyone interested in reviewing my package ?
<sedak> it'll be much fun ...
<sedak> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=441
<dsas> can someone let me know the approximate final date for having a package included in breezy?
<sedak> it's a kernel driver, so it'll be better if you had the device
<sedak> no idea
<alisher> hallo, I have a question, is there any possibility to get Gajim jabber client into Universe?
<alisher> there is already the package in the debian repositories
<alisher> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/gajim
<\sh> alisher: did u read the debian bts?
<\sh> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gajim
<hubW> perhaps someone should volunteer to fix it
<hubW> like alisher :-)
<tseng> it looks pretty nice
<\sh> yes..
<\sh> I tried it the last time.
<\sh> it build nicely...but running no
<\sh> tseng: u fixed the amd64/ppc ftbfs  as well for mythtv? ,-)
<tseng> no
<tseng> i have no ppc nor amd64
<\sh> tseng: i tried 0.18.1 it ftbfs at the same line on amd64
<\sh> tseng: but mdz told me, that upstream has a amd64 now, and the issues will go in a while ,-)
<tseng> ok
<tseng> i wonder if mdz will work on the plugins
<\sh> why? we will do it ,-)
<\sh> it's universe ,-)
<tseng> its a new upstream release
<tseng> and needs to be completely repackaged
<tseng> he is the maintainer
<\sh> tseng: not now...for breezy+1 eventually
<tseng> well then the plugins wont work
<tseng> in breezy
<\sh> for i386?
<tseng> for anyone
<tseng> they are for 0.17
<\sh> i386 mythtv wrks
<\sh> args
<tseng> 0.18 makes all the plugins one source package
<tseng> needs to be repacked
<tseng> and remove all the old sources
<tseng> the ppc log is nice
<tseng> {standard input}:3378: Error: Unrecognized opcode: `emms'
<tseng> i wonder how it managed that
<\sh> yeah...and amd64 is much nicer
<tseng> oh its using ccache still too
<\sh> it's correct
<\sh> and it's ok
<tseng> {standard input}:15149: Error: bad register name `%'
<tseng> ooh.
<tseng> shiny.
<\sh> and for 0.18.1 the same error
<tseng> so this thing is full of x86 assembly?
<tseng> or something
<\sh> sure
<\sh> libavcodec
* \sh tries to fix gajim
<\sh> Nafallo: pingeling
<\sh> hmmm..does anybody has problems with firefox after libcairo2 update?
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13881
<\sh> gajim is running on breezy
<sedak> no problem with firefox+new libcairo2
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> which version? i have 1.0.6-1ubuntu7
<Nafallo> \sh: yes honey? :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: do some mockups for a good shtoom gnome frontend pls ,-)
<Nafallo> \sh: dude. feature freeze ;-)
<sedak> 1.0.6-1ubuntu7 too
<\sh> Nafallo: for breezy+
<\sh> 1
<Nafallo> sure, but not now :-). have to clean up in here + rabbit's cage
<Nafallo> and that probably means bbl as well ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: and join #shtoom :) lowtraffic, but quit interessting ,-)
<\sh> Nafallo: we will rock
<comadreja> hey \sh
<JanC> \sh, when is gajim going to be available in breezy?
* JanC can't wait  ;)
<\sh> I just repackaged 0.8 and have to adjust some things
<\sh> debian has 0.7*
<\sh> and 0.8 is much better
<\sh> and it's a good start for a combination of jabber and SIP
<JanC> how does it use SIP ?
<\sh> JanC: via shtoom integration...
<\sh> I  want to have a client which is capable of sharing the roster
<\sh> SIP Express Router can handle this as well...
<JanC> oh, nice, even if I don't have a headset or microphone  :)
<\sh> JanC: SER has a jabber module..so u can use the SIP contact as jabber contact
<\sh> (the SIP server needs to have a jabber installed as well)
<JanC> uhu, I read "SIMPLE2Jabber gateway" on their homepage
<\sh> yepp
<JanC> SIMPLE is the SIP based IM protocol IBM uses IIRC ?
<\sh> no
<\sh> SIMPLE is the standard of aim/irc
<\sh> s/irc/icq/
<JanC> I thought that was "OSCAR" ?
<\sh> it's also called simple ;)
<\sh> or yahoo or whatever
<\sh> doesn't interessed me ;)
<\sh> http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=93&page=2
<\sh> 3
<\sh> grmpf
<JanC> so Microsoft is going to use SIMPLE ?
<\sh> something like this
<\sh> and SIP is using it
<JanC> ah, and like I thought: IBM Lotus Sametime supports SIMPLE  :)
<\sh> but IBM supports as well jabber
<JanC> typical for IBM  :)
<JanC> they also support Windows & Linux & AIX & ...
<hub> JanC: they don't support linux. you can't buy a laptop without Windows
<hub> JanC: so that's bullshit they support linux
<JanC> ibm doesn't sell laptops...
<JanC> (anymore)
<hub> they do
<hub> they still do
<hub> they also sell Notes
<hub> it does not have a Linux client
<hub> whatever quality or lack thereof the product has
<JanC> and they don't have a windows version of "ibm web server"
<hub> http://www-131.ibm.com/content/home/store_LNV_PublicUSA/en_US/ad.html
<JanC> (which is based on apache btw)
<hub> and they don't sell laptops ?
<JanC> ibm laptops are now sold by lenovo, who can use the ibm brand name for some years...
<Yagisan> G'day All
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-26
<crimsun> welp, time to sit back while the cairo transition bubbles on...
<crimsun> hub: actually Notes will have a Linux client.
<crimsun> hub: as a stop-gap, I ran Notes 7 in WINE this entire summer
<\sh> robitaille: u have to add deb http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/$(ARCH)/ as well to your sources.list
<robitaille> ok
* robitaille is currently downloading the 112mb of new packages in today's breezy apt-get upgrade....
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> btw....is tar.bz2 for upstream orig. archives now working?
<\sh> anyways...I have to shower and go to the office...checking what's nagra doing
<ajmitch> great, the upgrade wants to remove nvidia-glx :)
<rob^> I'm getting the following when trying to install scorched3d on colony 3:  Depends: libwxgtk2.4 (>=2.4.2.6ubuntu1) but it is not installable
<rob^> any ideas?
<ajmitch> needs rebuilt, will check it out later
<rob^> thanks
<ajmitch> fow now, bbl
* Treenaks kicks the planet
<Treenaks> Is my feed _that_ broken?
<Treenaks> (I see I'm not alone.. \sh has reposted all of his adventures as well, or so planet thinks)
<lathiat> heheh
<Treenaks> lathiat: you know the cool thing? it works in my (0.2) planet
<Treenaks> lathiat: so it got broken between 0.2 and "1.0~~pre1)
<lathiat> ah
<ajmitch> hi ogra, ivoks  :)
<ivoks> hi all
<ivoks> i found a bug in acpi-support :(
<ivoks> acctually, bug is reported couple of times on bugzilla :)
<ivoks> solution is very simple... i hope thom will see my post
<siretart> morning..
<siretart> still no new lyx in unstable :(
<Treenaks> siretart: try looking in breezy :P
<siretart> Treenaks: lyx in breezy is broken, uninstallable and FTBFS
<Treenaks> siretart: and somehow unstable is better? :P
<siretart> Treenaks: I spend 2 days fixing it for me, this included upgrading to new upstream version and fixing some dependencies
<siretart> Treenaks: now I wonder if I should upload the package I have here. This would bring is a working lyx in breezy
<siretart> debian maintainers promises since weeks to upload a new version... :/
<Mithrandir> siretart: where's the package?
<siretart> Mithrandir: the fixed one? on my harddrive. Do you want to have a look at it?
<Mithrandir> hm, five days is a bit short for NMUing
<siretart> the debian maintainer told somewhere they wanted to convert from yada to cdbs
<siretart> but ppl needed the new upstream version, so georg baum (lyx upstream) upgraded the existing debian package
<Mithrandir> getting rid of yada is always nice.
<Mithrandir> yada should die
<siretart> I did some polishing work and have now a working package
<siretart> still on yada, but working
<siretart> and bob2 promised to have an upload yesterday. Perhaps he needs a sponsor, I don't know
<siretart> yada seems terrible to me, too.
<Mithrandir> bob2 promised to upload to debian or ubuntu?
<siretart> to upload to unstable
<siretart> but I didn't find him on people.debian.org, so I guess he needs a sponsor..
<Mithrandir> yeah
<siretart> hi Mez
<Mez> hey siretart
<siretart> Mez: did you see the backport request for proftpd?
<siretart> I wasn't sure, had to prepare my party yesterday ;)
<Mez> siretart: no i didnt
<Mez> unless it was sent to the mailing list
<siretart> Mez: oh. which mailing list is appropriate?
<siretart> ubuntu-backports, found it
<Mez> :P
<\sh> use jabber :)
<Mez> jabber?
<Mez> what about jabber?
<Mez> or was that just general spam
<siretart> Mez: is jdong now working with ubuntu-backports?
<\sh> nice offline message support...so send the requests through jabber and u will see all backport requests
<\sh> ;)
<siretart> http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/ still doesn't mention the official backports, so I'm confused..
<lathiat> i dont think that page is particularly in date at all
<Mez> siretart, I dont have access at all
<Mez> yeah
<Mez> UbuntuMez@jabber.org/apathy
<\sh> Mez|WoW: u read my blog article about gajim?
<Mez|WoW> gajim ... ?
<Mez|WoW> most likely
<\sh> yes...
<Mez|WoW> I read most blog articles
<\sh> gtk jabber client...just like psi under qt/kde
<siretart> \sh: I'm looking forward to test your package :)
<Mez|WoW> when was it written?
<\sh> written in python and it rocks (even I'm not the gnome type of user)
<\sh> siretart: it's on revu
<\sh> siretart: u need dnspython as well
<siretart> w00h0. will test in a sec :)
<\sh> siretart: binary packages are on deb http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/all
* Mez|WoW wonders why fglrx keeps dissapearing
<\sh> and http://archive.linux-server.org/ breezy/$(ARCH)/
<Mez|WoW> \sh - what happened to sourcecode.de
<\sh> Mez|WoW: it's my mail domain :)
<\sh> to copy and paste:
<\sh> deb http://archive.linux-server.org/    breezy/all/
<\sh> deb http://archive.linux-server.org/    breezy/$(ARCH)/
<\sh> deb-src http://archive.linux-server.org/        breezy/source/
* siretart looking at dnspython
<\sh> siretart: dnspython is needed for srv dns record lookup so it's using tls and complying to xmpp 1.0
<siretart> \sh: can you explain me the meaning of this debian/dnspython.examples?
<siretart> brb
<\sh> siretart: yes..it installs the examples in /usr/share/docs/dnspython...it's a feature of cdbs
<\sh> for python packages
<Mez|WoW> \sh It looks nice, but I can mnever see me using it instead of using gaim
<Mez|WoW> I use gaim all the time and dont need another client
<\sh> Mez|WoW: gaim is not a jabber client..it's a multiprotocol client...
<\sh> Mez|WoW: gajim is plain jabber...so it uses only the different jabber/xmpp technologies
<\sh> and this is more what icq, aim, yahoo and msn have together :)
<Mez|WoW> \sh: but - while it isa still multiprotocol - it still suppoirts the jabber stuff
<Mez|WoW> what does gajim give me that gaim cant?
<\sh> Mez|WoW: it doesn't support jabber services like transports, rss, pubsub, jud, etc.
<\sh> Mez|WoW: gajim is supporting those services...
<Mez|WoW> \sh: I've never used them anyways
<Mez|WoW> because I use jabber.org
<\sh> Mez|WoW: hehe...
<\sh> yes jabber.org has a problem with transports...legal things
<\sh> and some of them are sometimes nasty to administrate
<\sh> ok...
<Mez|WoW> \sh: simple thing - I dont have access to anywhere else for Jabber
<Mez|WoW> I love the way it works
<Mez|WoW> but, I dont have any acccess to/any need for extra features at the moment
<siretart> \sh: looking great! one more MOTU to go! :)
<Mez|WoW> I'll review in a sec
<Mez|WoW> \sh: I dont even see you online at the moment
<siretart> ok, have to help preparing lunch here, cu later!
<JanC> <Mez|WoW> \sh: simple thing - I dont have access to anywhere else for Jabber
<JanC> no access ?
<JanC> because of a firewall or something ?
<Mez|WoW> JanC... I dont have a private non-generic jabber server to connect to
<JanC> Mez|WoW, there are lots of free jabber servers ?
<JanC> and some of them do have special services installed
<JanC> e.g. http://web.amessage.info/ has smtp & sms gateway, a blogging gateway, ...
<\sh> anyways ... i'm at the office...and I can't do anything here anymore..
<\sh> so i need to go home...and deal with some real life
<Nafallo> Mez|WoW: linux-server.org is \sh's ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: he's already registered
<Nafallo> oh
<\sh> Nafallo: the status view of gaim...was it a problem of gaim ?
<\sh> Nafallo: i think it was u with the same problem...right/
<Nafallo> \sh: dunno. I know you are not online according to it ;-)
<\sh> Nafallo: ok...check gajim
<Nafallo> \sh: is it on REVU yet?! :-D
<\sh> Nafallo: it's on revu
<\sh> and u can find binaries on http://archive.linux-server.org/breezy
<\sh> Nafallo: dnspython as well...i need it for xmpp 1.0 dns srv recs
<Nafallo> yea, I know :-)
<\sh> but now I have to leave here...I want to go home...
<\sh> cu later guys...in one hour or so/
<\sh> cu later
<Nafallo> \sh: yepp :-)
<siretart> bye \sh_away
<Nafallo> ehm
<Nafallo> sity_python?
<Nafallo> site_python?
<Mez|WoW> Nafallo: good catch
<siretart> Nafallo: great spotting!
<Yagisan> G'day All
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> anyone else use gaim-evolutionpluginsstuffthing?
<siretart> hi Yagisan
<Nafallo> everything seems to notice it's jabber I want to add, but when I add it to gaim, the damn address gets added as GroupWise :-P
<Yagisan> can anyone think of a packages that creates multiple debs from a data package without creating a binary deb ?
<Yagisan> I went through the games section
<Yagisan> but they seem to mostly be one source, one binary
<siretart> Yagisan: err, you always need a source package. it can create one or more than one 'binary' packages
<siretart> Yagisan: note that a binary package may also include just 'data'
<Yagisan> what I mean is, you see all those deng-jdoom-rp-* packages I sent to revu ?
<Yagisan> I have been asked to make it once source
<Yagisan> for those debs. I'm looking for an example package
<siretart> Yagisan: ah, do I understand you correctly, you want to combine several upstream tarballs to one debian sourcepackage?
<Yagisan> It is all the same upstream (but the packages are seperated for maintainence and user convienience)
<siretart> that doesn't matter
<Yagisan> I was asked by ajmitch to look into combining them into one source, multiple binaries
<Yagisan> but I can't find an example
<Yagisan> so other games do it
<siretart> the current dpkg source format cannot handle several upstream. the new wig and pen format will support this, but this format is not allowed in the archive yet
<Yagisan> s/so/no/
<siretart> as workaround, I've seen packages combining all tarballs from upstream into one new orig.tar.gz
<Yagisan> that's what I'm looking at
<siretart> debian/rules will then extract the tarballs in it
<Yagisan> in my case they are simply .zips
<Yagisan> with noexecutable data
<siretart> you could make a new tar.gz containing all those .zip's
<siretart> extracting them at build time
<Yagisan> be back soon
<Nafallo> gaah
<Nafallo> build-dep: mozilla-dev (>= 2:1.7.8), build-conflict: mozilla-dev (>= 2:1.7.9)
<Nafallo> wth
<Mithrandir> that's a build-dep: mozilla-dev (>= 2:1.7.8), mozilla-dev (<< 2:1.7.9)
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: what about build-dep mozilla-dev (= 2:1.7.8)
<Nafallo> =
<Nafallo> ?
<Mithrandir> that's wrong
<Mithrandir> it won't work with 2:1.7.8-1 -2 and so on
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: anyway, I'll try to remove the conflict things and just have higher than 2:1.7.8. We'll see if it compiles with our version.
<Mithrandir>  dpkg --compare-versions '2:1.7.8' '=' '2:1.7.8-1' && echo true || echo false
<Mithrandir> false
<Yagisan> siretart: ping
<siretart> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> siretart: you can nuke all of the deng-jdoom-rp-* packages at deng
<siretart> okay
<Yagisan> I worked out how to use one source to produce all of those binaries
<Yagisan> :)
<siretart> how?
<siretart> stuff nuked
<Yagisan> ?
<Yagisan> thanks siretart
<Yagisan> I used the packaging rules for wesnoth as inspiration
<Yagisan> it makes a few data packages
<siretart> great :)
<slomo> hi all
<Yagisan> I think my package is the only one that is multiple data from one source, without binaries though
<Yagisan> just waiting on a list of all authors from upstream before reuploading
<Yagisan> (I have a slow uplink)
<Yagisan> G'day Slomo
<siretart> hi slomo
<siretart> \sh_away: I think you can upload http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=412 :)
<tseng> Mez: ping
<\sh> Mez: what is apathy? other client then gaim or only the resource?
<tvo> hi! pbuilder gives me "dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.diff'"  what could cause this?
<tvo> lintian & linda don't give any warnings/errors
<sedak> do you have any tar.gz in the .dsc file ?
<tvo> sedak: yes, orig.tar.gz
<sedak> then i don't know :-)
<\sh> and your diff is .diff.gz?
<tvo> \sh: yes
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> which package?
<tvo> kio-locate
<\sh> is it in the archives, i think so
<tvo> a month ago I succesfully build it. now it doesn't work
<tvo> yes 0.4.2tvo0.1 is in universe
<\sh> lemme check :)
<\sh> just updating this laptop here
<tvo> The only significant thing I changed during this build are a pbuilder breezy chroot instead of hoary IIRC
<\sh> tvo: with --override-config?
<tvo> yes
<tvo> I followed PbuilderHowto
<\sh> Checking for the qt library       :  qt was not found
<\sh> Please set QTDIR first (/usr/lib/qt3?) or try scons -h for more options
<\sh> debuild -S output
<tvo> hmm that's weird. Could be a bug in bksys, the build system used
<\sh> check this first :)
<tvo> \sh: I'm unable to reproduce that output..
<Yagisan> slomo: ping
<\sh> tvo: do u have libqt3-mt-dev installed ?
<slomo> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> slomo: Thank you. Only possible changes now are to the suggests line
<tvo> \sh: yes
<\sh> tvo: that's the problem
<\sh> debuild -S uses the host system to clean the tarball and the diff.gz
<\sh> if you depend on an installed -dev package during clean time...it's bad
<slomo> Yagisan: what do you want to change there?
<\sh> $(SCONS_CMD) -c
<\sh> thats the problem
<Yagisan> Had a new upstream of deng-jhexen-xccp released yesterday, and it obsoleted deng-jhexen-skypack
<tvo> \sh: I guess the problem is in scons or bksys then. I wants to configure before cleaning
<tvo> $(SCONS_CMD) -c == make clean
<slomo> Yagisan: oh ok... just tell me when you've done a new upload there :) and search for two other MOTU who vote for deng ;)
<\sh> tvo: yes...but it tries to configure something first :)
<tvo> \sh: yup, and it shouldn't do that. It's not needed.
<Yagisan> slomo: no problems. Feel like giving my deng-iwad-*installer's a once over ?
<\sh> tvo: do u need scons at all?
<slomo> Yagisan: sure
<slomo> Yagisan: after i've created a new package ;)
<tvo> \sh: well, I suppose I could try to replace it with autotools
<Yagisan> slomo: thanks
<tvo> but scons looks much cleaner, that's why original author switched
<tvo> and I don't want to switch back and add 400k autotools to the package..
<\sh> tvo: hmmm..possibility to avoid the configure state in clean target?
<tvo> \sh: by talking to ita, bksys author
<tvo> I already reported/fixed several issues and if it appears to be a bksys issue, it'll be fixed in 1-2 days
<tvo> if it's in scons, then I don't know how much time it takes.. could try to fix it myself..
<pef> hi
<\sh> tvo: what about adding -k flag?
<tvo> \sh: could be a good workaround
<siretart> \sh: I think dnspython reached quorum, will you upload it?
<tvo> I'll test it now
<siretart> ah, there was this typo, ignore me.. sory
<\sh> siretart: I fix it first
<siretart> ok
<\sh> give me a couple of minutes :)
<tvo> \sh: there appears to be a new builddir/srcdir feature in scons, so no need for clean, just rm -rf builddir. I'll use that, seems a better solution than any workaround
<\sh> tvo: try...send me the debdiff :)
<tvo> \sh: ok, I'll do that once I updated the build system
<\sh> siretart: uploaded new version
<siretart> \sh: advocated it ;)
<\sh> thx
<Nafallo> hmm, is that a typofix, or a complete new string? ;-)
<Yagisan> slomo: ping
<\sh> Nafallo: complete new string ,-)
<Nafallo> GAAH!
<Nafallo> I _HATE_ gnome-panel
<\sh> Nafallo: check it :)
<slomo> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> slomo: new deng with corrected suggests is uploaded
<Yagisan> 3 advocates please :-D
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> deng would install the binaries into /usr/games/deng
<\sh> but the binary should be installed only under /usr/games
<Yagisan> \sh nope
<\sh> Yagisan: check the other games
<Yagisan> \sh eg see wesnoth
<Yagisan> allmost all are /usr/games/<packagename>
<\sh> well...fortune e.g. /usr/games/fortune <- binary
<\sh> no dir
<\sh> same-gnome as well
<\sh> I know also the old style system...
<siretart> Yagisan: please see http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.11
<siretart> Yagisan: \sh is right, imo
<Yagisan> siretart, that a lot of universe is borken
<Yagisan> s/that/then
<\sh> Yagisan: yes...because it was the old system...since FHS we should fix this
<\sh> another MOTU todo for MOTUGames Team ,-)
<siretart> *sigh*
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> knife in da back ,-)
<Yagisan> crap
<\sh> Yagisan: ifeq "$(DEBIAN_ARCH)" "i386" CFLAGS += -mcpu=i686
<\sh> endif
<Yagisan> suggestions on where to tell deng to shove it's private libraries ?
* siretart looking at wesnoth
<\sh> /usr/share/deng ?
<tseng> wesnoth is too hard
<\sh> oh private libs?
<\sh> /usr/lib/deng
<Yagisan> yes
<tseng> it should stop beating me
<siretart> tseng: in what sense?
<\sh> or /usr/libexec/deng
<slomo> \sh: regarding mcpu: that's only tuning... the stuff will also run on an old 386 ;)
<tseng> siretart: i cant win
<siretart> ah
<\sh> slomo: ok...
<siretart> /usr/libexec ?!
<siretart> in debian?!
<\sh> u see...
<\sh> I'm just an old fart...
<\sh> so /usr/lib/deng
<siretart> jo, that sounds right..
<Yagisan> :(
<Yagisan> time for more configure magic
<siretart> anyone knows whats wrong with gnome-panel?
<siretart> since a few days, its behaving quite weird.
<siretart> Yagisan: err, I just installed wesnoth, where did you see that it creates a dir under /usr/games?
<slomo> siretart: what exactly? does it crash constantly for you?
<siretart> slomo: quite often, yes
<\sh> I think I have to rewrite the complete rules file for gajim
<slomo> siretart: hmm... after updating yesterday and a reboot this disappeared here
<siretart> hm
<siretart> \sh: :(
<\sh> because the default of 0.7.1 is ugly
<\sh> no problem...
<Yagisan> siretart - I must be mistaken, I'm sure I saw it there when I checked last, but on a re-install I can't find it either
<Mez> \sh apathy is just a resource :D It's my comp name
<Seveas> I found a trivial packaging bug in a package (one line fix in debian/control). Should I put a new package on revo or is a bug report enough?
<slomo> Seveas: make a debdiff and give it to someone who can upload it for you
<\sh> Mez: ah ok :)
<Seveas> slomo, can you, and do you have 5 minutes to fix it?
<slomo> Seveas: i could... when i finally have upload rights *waiting almost a month* ;) maybe \sh has time...
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> \sh, do you?
<\sh> slomo: elmo inserted the keys...did u try?
<\sh> Seveas: what is it? send me the debdiff to sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> i need to hang clothes :)
<slomo> \sh: nope... what can break when mine isn't there yet?
<\sh> slomo: nothing..it disappears
<slomo> \sh: and i get a REJECT mail?
<Seveas> \sh, you really want a debdiff for one missing dependency?
<Yagisan> while I'm fixing deng, was there anything else you guys think should be fixed ?
<\sh> Seveas: package and whats missing
<\sh> slomo: something like this
<Seveas> steghide, build-dep on libjpeg-dev is missing
<Seveas> so it gets built without jpeg support
<Seveas> debdiff does not show this for the debs or gives far too much output for thr dsc
<\sh> Seveas: and it should compile with libjpeg support ?
<Seveas> I see no reason why not
<\sh> argl
<\sh> this gnome panel
<\sh> it's crashing
<lathiat> yeh i keep getting that
<Seveas> the changelog mentions nothing about the reason for it not to be included
<Seveas> and there's no readme.debian
<slomo> \sh: hehe... same for me and siretart... and my xchat crashs everytime the panel crashs :(
<\sh> Seveas: it's ftbfsing
<lathiat> slomo: heh yeh thatd be cause yoru notification area goes away
<lathiat> gaim will crash too
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> gajim as well..so I removed it from the notification area
<slomo> lathiat: hm, gaim doesn't crash for me... but liferea does
<\sh> but rhythmbox is running
<lathiat> slomo: hrm, gaim has always crashed for me when the panel crashes
<lathiat> yeh rhythmbox is good
<lathiat> it even restores the icon
<Seveas> \sh, hmm
<Seveas> here it builds fine
<lathiat> some applications, like azureus, dont crash but you lose the tray icon
<slomo> lathiat: rhythmbox is too unstable for me... it doesn't like some of my mp3s ;)
<lathiat> .. and the window is hidden :)
<lathiat> slomo: works great for me
<lathiat> if it doesnt like your mp3s your mp3s suck :)
<slomo> lathiat: hehe, that's the reason why i don't hide azureus anymore
<lathiat> that or gstreamer0.8-mad isnt installed
<\sh> CvrStgObject.h:40: warning: 'class CvrStgObject' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<\sh> SampleValue.h: In member function 'size_t SampleValueHash::operator()(const SampleValue*) const':
<\sh> SampleValue.h:166: error: 'hash' is not a member of 'sgi'
<\sh> SampleValue.h:166: error: expected primary-expression before '>' token
<\sh> SampleValue.h:166: error: 'h' was not declared in this scope
<slomo> lathiat: at least it segfaults when i import all my stuff... after 5 minutes or something
<slomo> lathiat: i've installed all gstreamer stuff :P
<lathiat> ah nice
<lathiat> does muine work?
<lathiat> probably a gstreamer bug
<lathiat> file a bug ;p
<Seveas> \sh, must be a gcc4 thing, I see i was using a hoary chroot here
<Seveas> will work on it
<slomo> lathiat: muine and every other gst application works fine ;) and how shall i describe the bug? "it crashes after some time"? ;) well, i'll run it through gdb later... when the panel doesn't crash anymore...
<\sh> Seveas: ok :)I
<slomo> \sh: when i don't get a mail from katie after uploading... what does that mean? ;) why don't i get a REJECT?
<Yagisan> anyone here notice that on hoary amd64, mplayer and mencoder can't detect SSE support, so it gets disabled
<\sh> slomo: then u r not whitelisted or u used the wrong email address in the changelog etc.
<slomo> \sh: mail address was ok and i normally get mails from katie when someone else uploads something for me... so i can assume elmo hasn't added me yet?
<\sh> slomo: u should get a rejected
<slomo> \sh: weird... who can i ask because of that? elmo, lamont and infinity?
<\sh> elmo
<\sh> or try lamont
<slomo> ok, done
<Yagisan> is it possible to set up pbuilder to use distcc or ccache to speed it up ? I already have it unpack in to RAM to ease disk access,
<Yagisan> but I'd like it to go quicker if possible
<\sh> uploading new gajim version to revu
<siretart> \sh: upload dnspython to ubuntu, too, if you are at it
<\sh> siretart: i need 3 ,-)
<siretart> \sh: you are motu, and count
<siretart> :)
<\sh> really?
<siretart> I really don't see problems with it
<\sh> i don't want to bend the rules
<siretart> it's a NEW package after all, and I think dholbach agreed with that
<\sh> cause dholbach is also waiting for 3 ,-)
<siretart> yes?
<siretart> hm
<siretart> lets ask ogra when he returns
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> I should put dnspython to suggest and not an install dep
<\sh> in gajim
<siretart> isn't it needed for operation?
<\sh> no..I will make some things easier
<\sh> s/I/it/
<zanaga> ok, who do i bug to get NetworkManager fixed. There is a fix in the BTS, it just needs to be applied and rebuilt: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13070
<siretart> zanaga: thom
<eruin> is anything going on with networkmanager?
<zanaga> i just asked ;)
<zanaga> apparently we need to bug thom about getting bugzilla #13070 fixed
<eruin> severity: blocker imho ;-)
<Yagisan> deng has been corrected with regards to fhs. Anyone want to give it a once over and advocate it ?
<Seveas> \sh, in a clean breezy chroot, the current steghide package is FTBFS too...
<Seveas> so it's not the libjpeg things that break it
<\sh> Seveas: no gcc4
<\sh> Seveas: u r welcome to fix it ,-)
<Seveas> \sh, what do you mean bu that? 'gcc4 not used' or 'not compatible with gcc4'?
<\sh> Seveas: it's not cleanly coded...fix the gcc4 build issues :)
<Seveas> capiche
<\sh> it's a gcc4 issue..which has to be fixed
<Seveas> I'll try
<Seveas> There is a half-baked patch in debian/patches
<slomo> \sh: njam has a broken desktop file ;) "MimeType=text/xml;text/x-dtd;text/x-xds;"
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> I'll delete this
<\sh> I don't need a mime type
<\sh> let me enhance gajim right now ;)
<Yagisan> all deng-* uploads have been completed, they should be fine. All they need now are some advocates.
<hub> hi
<bz0b> hey guys
<rbelem> hey ogra
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-27
<tseng> we made #ubuntu-mono because i am tired of msging with people
<tseng> and having a ton of open windows
<tseng> mbreit is not here :/
<tseng> i thought there was another
<lathiat>  /join #ubuntu-monu
<lathiat> bah
<hub> what if for one of my package I need a package already in debian ?
<hub> but not in ubuntu
<SloMoSnail> hub: ask elmo to sync it from debian
<hub> how ?
<hub> is there a precodure >
<SloMoSnail> hub: just write him a mail and describe why you need this package
<hub> okay
<hub> checking
<hub> not even sure it is in debian
<apokryphos> is there any chance of getting musicbrainz in universe with mp3 support?
<apokryphos> it's in MAIN so that amaroK can use it, but it's quasi-useless as the tagging ability can't be used with mp3s
<lathiat> siretart, ajmitch: what are my chances of getting avahi packages into universe? :)
<ajmitch> lathiat: depends on how much $$ you're willing to cough up? ;)
<lathiat> ajmitch: haha
<ajmitch> it's just a lib, or it has apps with it?
<lathiat> both
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> you're upstream?
<lathiat> yep
<ajmitch> sweet
<lathiat> ross burton did the debianization tho
<lathiat> not that that really matters
<ajmitch> so where are the packages?
<lathiat> i havent got them off ross yet
<lathiat> later today
<ajmitch> get packages before begging for inclusion ;)
* ajmitch might find avahi useful
<lathiat> haha they're done and i've seen whats in them i just dont have them off him yet :)
<lathiat> will do :)
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> rtl8180-kernel package on revu
<ajmitch> dse sell a few of those cards
<lathiat> yeh
<ajmitch> might be better in the mainline kernel if it's stable
<ajmitch> (for breezy+1, I guess)
<ajmitch> so is avahi 0.1 actually released then? :)
<lathiat> yes
<lathiat> it is
<lathiat> this morning
<lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/avahi/announcement-0.1
<lathiat> http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<ajmitch> will ross be uploading to sid?
<lathiat> well
<lathiat> debian doesn have python-gtk2 yet
<lathiat> and i dont even know if they have dbus 0.3x yet
<lathiat> so i suspect not for a bit
<ajmitch> you  mean no python-gtk2 2.8?
<ajmitch> because pygtk2 has been in sid for a *long* time
<lathiat> i have no idea i dont use it
<lathiat> i just heard people say it doesnt have it
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> been there since 2002
<lathiat> python2.4-gtk2 ?
<ajmitch> no, python-gtk2
<ajmitch> does avahi require python2.4?
<ajmitch> I see it does.. why is that? :)
<lathiat> umm
<lathiat> actually i think dbus require 2.4
<ajmitch> right..
<ajmitch> crackful
<lathiat> so we implicitly do
<lathiat> thats just a guess
<lathiat> im not 100% sure
* lathiat looks
<ajmitch> sid has dbus 0.23.4-3
<lathiat> yeh we need 0.3x
<lathiat> which i think is in experimental
<ajmitch> yes, sid is quite conservative :)
<lathiat> yeh dbus 0.3 wants python 2.4
<lathiat> 0.35, err
<lathiat> and unfortunately avahi-publish doesnt work without cvs of breezys version because of a bug in the bindings (everythign else works tho)
<lathiat> we're not on the bleeding edge of stuff, honest. :)
<ajmitch> it'll make backports fun ;)
<lathiat> i may work on getting dbus 0.23 support
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, making backports fun is the goal of any good packager, no?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: of course
<ajmitch> that's why you need to build-dep on all the latest goodies
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: btw, welcome to the old age of 23 ;)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, thank you, 22 was a pretty good year
<ajmitch> hi robitaille
<robitaille> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch wishes apt-proxy weren't so broken
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> hmmm
<ajmitch> \sh: I was kind & added some comments to your package on revu :)
<ajmitch> and I'll look at njam once I'm at home
<\sh> ajmitch: njam i have to fix
<ajmitch> \sh: the laptop channel can be irritating sometimes :)
<\sh> grmpf why is amule with libgtkwx2.6 building and not on the buildds
<\sh> ajmitch: nono...
<Brunellus> hi there.  is there going to be an updated dcraw in breezy?
<ajmitch> \sh: url for build log?
* ajmitch looks..
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/a/amule/2.0.3-1ubuntu3/amule_2.0.3-1ubuntu3_20050821-1818-i386-failed.gz
<\sh> because of build-deps
<ajmitch> ah, that is a problem
<\sh> but on my pbuilder it works
<ajmitch> sure
<\sh> well..I'm checking again
<ajmitch> but libwxgtk2.6-0 must be uninstallable on the build for another reason
<lathiat> mm gotta pay $250 in import taxes for my laptop
<lathiat> yay
<Burgundavia> lathiat, so did I
<lathiat> think i can claim it back tho so that'l be ok
<lathiat> just haugh to cough it up
<lathiat> *have to
<Burgundavia> lathiat, if it is a Canonical laptop, then you should be able to
<lathiat> Burgundavia: yeh
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> lathiat, jsut make sure you get a receit
<jsgotangco> but if you have a problem with money
<jsgotangco> inform cvd
<jsgotangco> i paid 136 GBP on taxes
<lathiat> which is
<lathiat> $323 au
<lathiat> yeh i'll be something similar
<jsgotangco> a lot of money on my country
<lathiat> find out tomorrow
<lathiat> jsgotangco: yeh thats what i get per fortnight heh
<jsgotangco> my laptop alone can buy a 2nd hand toyota over here
<lathiat> heh
<Burgundavia> so could mine
<Burgundavia> but you might get a nicer car for the same amount where you two live
<lathiat> i could get something ok
<jsgotangco> i could get something better or even buy a brand new scooter
<jsgotangco> ill got invited to speak in a local university next week so I will be able to show off my Breezy powered M2
<jsgotangco> heh
<lathiat> cool
<siretart> morning
<siretart> wh0ps.
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> there are quite some packages in universe needing a rebuild for new libcairo.. :)
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> and /me is offline at home, where my gnupg key is
<siretart> dsl modem died..
<ajmitch> yeah we'll get onto rebuilding them asap :)
<kagou> hi
<kagou> someone can tell me the exact version of gimp-ufraw in breezy ?
<Mithrandir> gimp-ufraw |      0.4-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
<kagou> 0.4-1 normally, but in debian they have :0.4-1 and : 0.4+cvs20050818-1
<kagou> Mithrandir, so we don't know wich cvs version is ufraw
<kagou> if i look at http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/graphics/gimp-ufraw and i see that in the diff.gz the last modification is " feb 2005"
<kagou> where or who do i contact/ask for this package update ? (sorry for my english i'm french)
<siretart> kagou: you would have to ping elmo for that
<kagou> thanks siretart
<ajmitch> siretart: but we don't just break UVF for no reason :)
<ajmitch> and I think elmo likes to hear a sync request from a MOTU (at least)
<siretart> thats right
<siretart> kagou: before requesting, why would you want the upgrade? you should give a rationale, preferably mentioning important and relevant bugreports and numbers
<kagou> ok siretart
<kagou> siretart, there is no bugreport for gimp-ufraw, in ubuntu, and two request (wishs, one for upgrade) in debian bugzilla. So it's not a dangerous paquet. But is last version in ubuntu (feb 2005) don't allow many users to use their camera.
<kagou> i think that we can raisonably update this paqckage. am i wrong ?
<kagou> siretart, or sync
<ajmitch> we should ask smurfix..
<ajmitch> as he's the debian maintainer :)
<kagou> siretart, another thing, i don't understand why this package as not be sync in ubuntu
<ajmitch> kagou: because breezy is frozen for new upstream versions
<ajmitch> and we have to justify breaking the freeze
<ajmitch> I see that the version you are requesting was only uploaded _very_ recently into unstable
<kagou> ajmitch : ah ok ...
<kagou> Reason to sync :
<kagou> 1/ Many users want's that version ;)
<kagou> 2/ package not dangerous
<kagou> exemple, the CANON REBEL XT (also know as 350d) is a best seller. Many users have bought it, but it can not work in the futur breezy without the sync.
<kagou> that's the same problem ith pentax *isdt and last nikon
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> if I see smurfix around, I'll ask his opinion, & then ask for a sync..
<kagou> ajmitch, many thx :)
* ajmitch has to have similar reasoning for f-spot :)
<kagou> ajmitch, smurfix is on #ubuntu-devel ;)
<ajmitch> yes, I know
<kagou> lol
<slomo> \sh: i'll have a look at gajim now... :) looks really interesting... are the icq/msn transports on jabberme stable? i'm currently using jabber.ccc.de and switched to gaim because of constantly crashing transports ;)
<\sh> slomo: yes...
<\sh> slomo: i'm running ejabberd as server and with the pyicq-t/pyaim-t/pymsn-t transports...proxy65 bytestream proxy...the rest is build in...so there's no yahoo transport, cause I didn't find any good, and easy solution for it
<\sh> the actual yahoo transport is a bit tricky to build...when i have time, i will build a package for jabberd2/ejabberd
<slomo> \sh: so you're running your own jabber server?
<\sh> slomo: it's mine yes
<\sh> jabberme.net/.org/.de sourcecode.de linux-server.org all available...
<slomo> \sh: oh ok... is it public? and are the transports open for users of other servers? ;)
<\sh> slomo: normally yes, do a service discover on jabberme.net (this is the server where the transports are running on)
<slomo> \sh: fine, i'll test it later :)
<\sh> slomo: i just started yesterday with enhancing gajim...to use URGENT window hint :) (thx to Mez for the tip)
<slomo> \sh: :) can you include this as a patch in you package? ;) and does it set urgent only on new chats or every time when someone writes something?
<slomo> hm, why don't you use dh_python for gajim?
<\sh> slomo: i have to decide...first it has to work :)
<slomo> \sh: ok... when you need help... i have nothing useful todo atm ;)
<\sh> slomo: are u interessted in the ShtoomVoip Goal?
<\sh> slomo: i checked latest shtoom (SVN HEAD) and it worked..but the GUI is more then a mess
<slomo> \sh: W: gajim: extra-license-file usr/share/gajim/COPYING
<siretart> .oO( me remembers, there are open reviews for dnspyhton and gaijm... )
<\sh> slomo: and now with gajim hitting the archives in the next days i would like to cretae a client for both...shtoom and jabber to have everything in one client
<\sh> slomo: pls write all the issues on REVU..so i can fix it later
<slomo> siretart: while you're at it... can you also look at g-p-m and nemerle? ;)
<siretart> slomo: sorry, I'm at work. cant do any reviews right now
<slomo> siretart: no problem :)
<slomo> \sh: ok, i'll do :) ok, you want to implement shtoom into gajim? hm, sounds interesting :)
<\sh> slomo: actually I want to have IM and Voice in one client...
<kagou> ajmitch, re hi, have you seen smurfix ?
<\sh> slomo: because roster handling can be nicely integrated..
<\sh> slomo: if i find a way to have a new xml xmpp item for SIP roster items...
<slomo> ok... hm... /me looks at dnspython now ;)
<\sh> slomo: and be aware...dnspython i will change from install-dep to suggest...cause gajim works as well without it...but doesn't comply with new xmpp 1.0 tls and dns srv lookup
<slomo> hm, in that case i would leave it in Depends
<Treenaks> Does anyone here know how to do strikethrough text on the wiki?
<\sh> slomo: hmm...
<\sh> slomo: ok..
<\sh> new gnome-panel
<\sh> lemme check on my other laptop if it's not crashing anymore
<slomo> \sh: for me it isn't crashing anymore... and i updated 1 hour ago ;)
<\sh> slomo: ok..then i can update my r200 now :)
<siretart> \sh: new gnome-menus. no crashes for me since then (ok, thats 5min ;))
<\sh> siretart: i will see in just a minute :)
<slomo> uh... gajim has an option to SAVE the gpg passphrase...
<\sh> slomo: psi as well
<\sh> I have to check how to use gpg-agent
<\sh> psi can do both
<slomo> would be much better... the way it is now is just freaky ;) people who save their passphrase somewhere have to be shot ;)
<slomo> btw... wasn't there a newer xmpp standard for encryption which doesn't use gpg?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> there r many
<\sh> otr as in gaim
<\sh> gpg as in psi
<\sh> and there will be a new jep
<slomo> hm... now only xchat crashed... =)
<\sh> hehe
<slomo> \sh: does gajim work with ssl for you?
<\sh> slomo: yes
<\sh> slomo: but
<slomo> \sh: yeah i know... tls ;)
<siretart> there is also gnome-keyring manager
<\sh> slomo: and ssl+tls can't work together
<\sh> slomo: and I saw the last time when I used pyxmpp that it has problems to deal with iit
<Treenaks> uh.. TLS and SSL are _the same thing_ basically, almost :)
<\sh> Treenaks: yes...but if u try to establish via ssl connection a tls handshake?
<\sh> and for jabber: tls is going port 5222 as normal without tls...and ssl is using port 5223
<\sh> and i think that's the problem
<Treenaks> \sh: there are 2 ways to create an SSL XMPP (Jabber) connection
<slomo> \sh: when using service discovery i can't find the icq transport on jabberme.org... only conference and irc
<\sh> jabberme.net
<Treenaks> \sh: 1 is "the old way", which is using a different port, and using SSL
<Treenaks> \sh: the other is the "new way", which is using a "STARTTLS" like command
<\sh> Treenaks: yes...but pyxmpp tries to handshake tls even over old ssl port
<Treenaks> \sh: ooh, braindeadness
<\sh> so u have a ssl connection already running...and the handshake tries to do it again :)
<\sh> but this i have to debug/
<mbreit> hi all
<slomo> hi moritz :)
<siretart> is it somehow possible to speed up evince? it is so dogslow for me :(
<mbreit> siretart: i have that problem as well...
<Mithrandir> siretart: get a faster computer. :-P
<siretart> :P
<siretart> gnarf. xpdf br0ken :(
<siretart> wunderfulll. xpdf FTBFS :(
<\sh> brb
<\sh> re
<mbreit> hi \sh
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> the bytestream proxies are hardcoded.
<\sh> oh aim don't let me in
<Yagisan> G'day All
<slomo> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> Looking for 3 Advocates for deng, and deng-iwad-*.installer
<Yagisan> :)
<slomo> Yagisan: you'll get one this evening ;)
<Yagisan> thanks slomo
<Yagisan> before anyone asks, yes deng-iwad-*-installer are supposed to be native packages
<Yagisan> I wrote them specfically for Debian
<Yagisan> and Ubuntu
<siretart> Yagisan: mmmh
* siretart doesn't like native packages at all
<slomo> siretart: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/transcode/2:1.0.0-0.4ubuntu1/
<slomo> siretart: why was it only built for amd64?
<siretart> slomo: because transcode is in dep-wait, and needs to be moved out by a buildd admin
<Yagisan> siretart, re: native packages: it's a shell script, and a dependency for other packages - no use outside of debian and ubuntu
<slomo> siretart: oh ok... did you already ping elmo for this?
<siretart> Yagisan: I prefer seperating packaging and functional parts of packages. native package merge them, which I don't like
<siretart> slomo: no buildd admin was available before, maybe you want to try again ;)
<slomo> siretart: nope... i already asked elmo and lamont something else a few hours ago and got no answer ;)
<Yagisan> siretart: Give one or two of the deng-iwad-*-installers a once over, if you are unhappy with it, I'll look into seeing how to merge it with deng.
<siretart> Yagisan: I cannot review them atm, I'm at work. but if they are really just small shellscripts, I'd consider including them in /usr/share/doc/deng/examples
<Yagisan> they are 4k, I need a postinst hook to make sure it is the right iwad and slot it in the right sopt, and a prerm hook to delete on purge. It also has a dependency that my repo uses as a hook to install even more data packages (that won't be sent to revu)
<Yagisan> slomo: you might want to hold off advocating deng atm
<siretart> i see
<Yagisan> the deng-iwad-tnt-installer is a little different, it does everything the others do, and includes a patch wad to correct a known flaw with tnt.wad
<siretart> ok, will have to take a closer look before guessing around ;)
<Yagisan> no problems
<Yagisan> Nafallo: ping
<rbelem> hi all. i'm looking for advocates to muse-streamer ;-)
<ivoks> hi
<rbelem> hi ;-)
<Yagisan> G'day
<ivoks> lot's of new people :)
<sedak> hello all
<sedak> i'm also looking for people to advocate rtl8180-kernel
<sedak> ... what's a native package ?
<Yagisan> rbelem: Is muse-streamer supposed to be a native package ? (Usually not, but there are some exceptions)
<Yagisan> sedak: A native package is one without an upstream .orig.tar.gz
<sedak> ok
<sedak> thanks
<Yagisan> sedak: they are only supposed to be for packages created exclusively for debian/ubuntu where debian/ubuntu IS the upstream
<rbelem> Yagisan, i just made some changes in name and removed some cvs dirs
<Yagisan> theres no .diff.gz
<Yagisan> rbelem: you'll be asked to repackage it using the orig.tar.gz
<rbelem> Yagisan, replace the by the upstream?
<rbelem> Yagisan, i didn't understand very well ;-)
<Yagisan> rbelem: when you ran dpkg-buildpackage, it couldn't find your orig.tar.gz file (possibly because the names didn't match)
<Yagisan> to fix it I think all you need to do is unpack your package
<Yagisan> download the upstream tarball to the directory you have unpacked to
<Yagisan> rename upstream tarball to muse-streamer.orig.tar.gz
<Yagisan> and when you run dpkg-buildpackage again, you should get the orig.tar.gz, a .diff.gz, and a .dsc
<rbelem> Yagisan, i already did it and used dpkg-buildpackge -S
<Yagisan> rbelem, you fixed it ?
<rbelem> Yagisan, yep ;-)
<tseng> hm we got in what look like some nocona boxes
* tseng gets ubuntu amd64
<Yagisan> rbelem: then just do a new upload. it built on amd64, and no lintian errors for me
<rbelem> Yagisan, oki ;-)
<Yagisan> rbelem: sorry I can't advocate, I'm not a motu
<rbelem> Yagisan, no problem... you helped a lot ;-)
<Yagisan> rbelem: thanks, and your welcome
<rbelem> Yagisan, no, i have to thank you ,-)
<tseng> siretart: why would we backport security fixes?
<tseng> siretart: there is a universe security
<ivoks> hi tseng
<tseng> hi
<ivoks> am...
<ivoks> are we aware that acpi-support is broken in many ways? :)
<Yagisan> Good night All
<kagou> hi
<kagou> re ajmitch . have you could seen smurfix for gimp-ufraw ?
<siretart> tseng: well, if you want to backport the issues, no problem. Since the backport fixes some other issues as well, it seems to me much more convinient for both maintainers and users
<herzi> ogra: can you take a look at https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1841/ please
<herzi> i need this fixed to fix a bug in ruby-gnome2 but i cannot build ruby-gnome2 without libgtkglext1-dev
<ogra> herzi, i saw it on #ubuntu-bugs already... we are in a big rebuild for the GLU x transition stuff...
<ogra> it will take a while
<herzi> okay
<\sh> herzi: provide a debdiff and put it on the web and provide the link here
<\sh> f*ck mozilla is a monster of sh*t
<ogra> yes
<herzi> wow, that's been fixed within the last 10 hours
<\sh> it was all in the queue .. infinity had only to w8
<herzi> can someone please close that bug mentioned above?
* herzi doesn't have permissions
<\sh> herzi: did libgtkglext1 build?
<siretart> is Lorenzo Villani here?
<siretart> does anyone know him?
<Mez> tseng: ping
<herve> hello
<\sh> hey herve
<herve> stephan!
<tseng> Mez: hi
<Mez> tseng: ruby should be fixed
<tseng> Mez: awesome
<Mez> interpreters/ruby1.8_1.8.2-9~hoary1: Installed by buildd+rothera [optional:uncompiled] 
<sedak> votes are not allowed on bugzilla.ubuntu ?
<sedak> that would have been cool ...
<Yagisan> G'day All
<herve> hello
<Yagisan> could anyone with with a powerpc system email me a build log for deng in revu to jamie_jones_au@yahoo.com.au
<Yagisan> Thanks
<herve> nighta!
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> oh damn
<\sh> i wanted to go to bed long ago
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> go sleep then
<\sh> will do after this cigarette :)
<\sh> hmm...i wonder if I get one of this sponsor journeys
<Nafallo> ?
<ajmitch> \sh: to montreal?
<Mez> tseng: ping
<ajmitch> you ought to
<tseng> Mez: hi
<Mez> tseng: you've been workign on mythtv?
<tseng> Mez: yes
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> I cant get it to compile
<Mez> and when I use whats in ubuntu
<Mez> I just er..
<Mez> get it saying it's been compiled without support for any video output
<Mez> hehe
<Mez> I think I may be able to fix that
<Mez> It's just configure looking in the wrong places for things
<Mez> I think
* ajmitch keeps filling up /var lately :(
<tseng> haha, i am at 75% on var on my main server
<tseng> keeping a year worth of data in RRDtool for 200 devices
<\sh> Mez: mythtv compiles on i386
<Mez> tseng: is it not worth compiling with xrandr support?
<ajmitch> here it's /var/cache/apt-proxy
<tseng> Mez: beats me
<ajmitch> time for lvextend, I think
<Mez> \sh :D in a pbuild maybe
<tseng> ajmitch: i clean that
<tseng> ajmitch: keep 2 revisions
<\sh> Mez: it's on the buildds
<\sh> and compiled
<Mez> \sh :P
<tseng> i need to get apt-proxy at work
<\sh> but not on amd64/ppc
<ajmitch> tseng: I was keeping 5, for some reason
<Mez> \sh yeah - but - I was gettgin gcc4errors caus ei have build-essential on my machine
<\sh> Mez: u checked the gcc dependency?
<Mez> I wanna see the build logss for it :D
<Mez> \sh :P
<tseng> Mez: thanks for rails
<\sh> Mez: the old package defaults to gcc-3.3
<Mez> tseng: no probs
<\sh> Mez: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mythtv/0.18-2ubuntu2/mythtv_0.18-2ubuntu2_20050820-1441-i386-successful.gz
<tseng> !!!!!!
<Mez> already viewing
<tseng> firefox wont start
<tseng> you must be kidding
<ajmitch> tseng: yeah, known issue I heard
<\sh> hehe..for only under kde not
<Mez> hmm
<\sh> for me is it not starting on kde i mean
<tseng> well F*#$ me
<\sh> gnome is just fine
<tseng> so much for doing anything
* ajmitch has been using galeon anyway
<\sh> use mozilla or konqueror or epyphnie.
<Mez> ff is working for me
<\sh> yack...i sound like seb128 :)
<Mez> unless something was updated
<Mez> since this morning
* Mez just wants to play PSOne on his comp
<\sh> gnight dudes...cu tomorrow
<Mez> tseng: have you any idea why mythtv is broked for me?
<Mez> tseng: is it broked for everyone?
<tseng> no?
<tseng> i dont even know what you are getting at
<tseng> there are about 10000 ways to break mythtv
<Mez> tseng: I cant get it to output any video AT ALL
<tseng> i see
<tseng> I can
<Mez> damn caps
<Mez> grr
<Mez> It just says "not compiled with any output options2
<Mez> or something
<Mez> I can get it to show stuff on screen and whatnot
<Mez> but nothing else
<tseng> Mez: http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/show/RailsOnUbuntuDebianTestingAndUnstable :)
* tseng pimps backports
<tseng> i thought id never see the day
<tseng> nice work.
<ajmitch> update the rest of the page
<tseng> what about it?
<Mez> hehe :D
<ajmitch> unless it's still broken?
* Mez pimps tseng
<tseng> whats broken?
<ajmitch> the bit about building ruby yourself on hoary
<tseng> oh um
<tseng> i changed that to warty i thought
<tseng> i see
<tseng> holy crap
<tseng> these guys wrote a book
<Mez> lol
<tseng> man i am deleting like mad
<Mez> ctrl+a, backspace
#ubuntu-motu 2005-08-28
<tseng> done.
* ajmitch wishes there were an ndiswrapper equivalent for those winmodems
<Mez> ajmitch, linmodem.com
<slomo> reeee
<slomo> hm... is the agenda for the motumeeting up to date?
<crimsun> Mez: what's the issue with mythtv?
<Mez> 2005-08-23 01:19:46.671 Opening OSS audio device '/dev/dsp'.
<Mez> 2005-08-23 01:19:46.703 Not compiled with any useable video output method.
<Mez> apparently
<Mez> yet ./configure shows that it is
<Mez> # Video Output Support
<Mez> x11 support      yes
<tseng> xv?
<Mez> xv ... ?
<Mez> no ..
<Mez> not on my compile or on the buildd
<crimsun> hmm, is x11 distinct from xv for mythtv, too?
<crimsun> (I know it is for mplayer)
<tseng> yes
<mbreit> slomo: the meeting agenda in the wiki is outdated, we discussed all that on the last meeting
* Mez has no idea what you mean by that
<crimsun> well, since I'm waiting for wxwidgets2.6, I may as well help with mythtv
<slomo> mbreit: ok, thanks
<Mez> tseng: is xv needed for myth?
<tseng> needed? i dont think
<Mez> then why wont this damn thing work
<crimsun> Mez: would you post your working diff.gz?
<crimsun> (I presume against 0.18.1?)
<Mez> crimsun - I havent changed anything
<Mez> I at-get source'd it
<crimsun> ok
<Mez> changing a couple of things now
<Mez> is wv from the builldd?
<Mez> nvm that
* Mez sighs
<Mez> I just want a working mythtv
<Mez> it says it has some outputs
<Mez> so why dont they work
<Mez> is it possible cause I'm trying to run on my normal session
<Mez> doing an xhost +
<crimsun> that shouldn't matter, but xhost + is deprecated. Use xauth export/merge instead.
<Mez> ?
<crimsun> (xhost + presents a huge security hole)
<Mez> no idea how to use that
<Mez> crimsun - I understand that :D
<Mez> Ill sort out access soon
<crimsun> xauth export foo :0 && sudo xauth merge foo && rm foo
<crimsun> the man page is probably more informative
* Mez has no idea what you just sai or what the man page says
<crimsun> Mez: are you building from the source on dijkstra.csh.rit.edu?
<Mez> no...
<Mez> from archive.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> pool from Debian?
<crimsun> ah, ok.
<Mez> should I be trying to build from somewhere else?
<Mez> god this is such a pain in the ass just to watch tV
<crimsun> well, 0.18 is in Ubuntu's pool, but he has 0.18.1 source
<Mez> lol
<Mez> so I should be using what?
<Mez> dijkstra?
<crimsun> I don't know how far \sh has gotten with 0.18.1
<crimsun> Mez: that's where I'm starting
<Mez> I just want to have something that works
<Mez> whats the full URL?
<crimsun> ok, then I recommend http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian/dists/unstable/mythtv/source/
<donsmith> Is this the place to suggest packages for universe?
<crimsun> yes
<donsmith> I've compiled both of these on my own, but I have no Idea how to do packaging
<Mez> maybe time to learn?
<donsmith> I'd like to suggest mcatalog (a mono bookshelf/dvdshelf app) and banshee ( a mono itunes clone)
<mbreit> donsmith: banshee is already on the list...
<crimsun> anything mono related I suggest you coordinate with tseng. He's our mono dude.
<donsmith> I'd be willing to learn but I don't have much free time so I couldn't do anything substantial
<mbreit> donsmith: but i am waiting for ipod-sharp to be released... and for a new banshee release... then i will make a package
<slomo> donsmith: when you need help packaging mcatalog just ask me... or give me an url and i'll create a package
<donsmith> That's awesome thanks
<donsmith> http://www.mcatalog.net/
<tseng> banshee..
<crimsun> donsmith: please check out wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<mbreit> btw: could someone upload a londonlaw fix for me?
<tseng> sorry, that is a breezy+1 thing
<mbreit> http://ubuntu.mobr.de/sources/debdiffs/londonlaw_0.2.1-1ubuntu3.debdiff
<donsmith> the only trick is that it requires a explicit mention in the ld_library_path to /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox
<slomo> donsmith: mcatalog looks nice on the screenshot... i'll make a package ;)
<tseng> slomo: it is a cool app
<donsmith> thanks slomo
<donsmith> tseng: did you say that mcatalog would be breezy+1 or banshee?
<tseng> banshee
<tseng> mcatalog is fine by me
<donsmith> awesome
<crimsun> mbreit: looking
<mbreit> crimsun: thanks!
<slomo> donsmith: i'll just fix gcl before i get to it... the firefox stuff was for mcatalog?
<donsmith> yup
<tseng> mbreit: i need ipod-sharp for breezy+1 also
<tseng> mbreit: for dopi
<donsmith> thanks slomo
<tseng> mbreit: that will be one of our top priorities next cycle, I think
<mbreit> tseng: great ;) i am looking forward to package banshee...
<tseng> rock on
<tseng> have you met the debian mono team yet?
<mbreit> tseng: will you do a cvs-snapshot if there is still no release after breezy?
<mbreit> tseng: no
<tseng> no, i will beat up abock
<donsmith> They have tagged releases in cvs of banshee
<tseng> meh
<tseng> there were releases as sonance
<tseng> a long time ago
<tseng> abock is contracting at novell on it now
<tseng> and some other dudes working on it
<tseng> maybe in the next few weeks we will see something
<tseng> for suse10
<donsmith> they say that opensuse is gonna have it
<mbreit> tseng: are you talking about banshee or ipod-sharp?
<tseng> banshee
<tseng> i guess both
<tseng> they are inter-related
<mbreit> i meant ipod-sharp ;)
<tseng> well, same answer
<mbreit> okay
<tseng> i will beat up on abock AND snorp in the case
<tseng> snorp loves the abuse
<mbreit> *g*
<crimsun> mbreit: done.
<tseng> he cant get enough of me.
<mbreit> crimsun: thanks!
<Mez> crimsun: new set says # Video Output Support
<Mez> x11 support      no
<Mez> xrandr support   no
<Mez> xv support       no
<Mez> XvMC support     no
<Mez> XvMC VLD support no
<Mez> OpenGL vsync     yes
<Mez> DirectFB         no
<tseng> ajmitch: btw, how is selinux?
<ajmitch> tseng: crap as ever ;)
<tseng> har
<tseng> so much for big mouths
<ajmitch> the only recent patches for pam are against 0.78/.79
<ajmitch> so backporting for a critical package is a pain
<tseng> :/
<ajmitch> as well as having to rewrite passwd
<tseng> sucks
<ajmitch> various other little things
<ajmitch> yeah, and I didn't spend enough time on it
<tseng> manoj will save us
<tseng> in etch
<ajmitch> so it's mostly my fault
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> packages are getting selinux support turned on in sid
<tseng> have you met manoj?
<tseng> its an experience
<ajmitch> no, I haven't
<tseng> too bad
<ajmitch> is he as pedantic as on the debian lists & irc?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> he is insane about keysigning
<tseng> i could not believe what i was seeing
<ajmitch> oh yeah
<ajmitch> I've seen his protocol online
<tseng> its a wonder i didnt loose his damn card
<tseng> with the challenge response
<Mez> how can i find out which package a file belongs to
<tseng> dpkg -S file
<ajmitch> or dlocate -S
<Mez> lol
<Mez> /usr/bin/xinit was in the .... xinit package
<mbreit> btw: could someone also upload http://ubuntu.mobr.de/sources/debdiffs/ickle_0.3.2-3ubuntu1.debdiff ?
<mbreit> (but that one needs a short review.... it's a very broken package :( )
<Mez> if it's broken then why upload?
<ajmitch> great, xnest works, I can test f-spot
<Mez> and -0 it looks like it would break UVF ?
<tseng> hot
<Mez> crimsun: you still around?
<mbreit> Mez: are you talking to me? (... broken ...)
<crimsun> Mez: yes
<Mez> crimsun: the new package needs a slight change
<Mez> to make it pick up X
<crimsun> yep, I'm working on the b-d
<crimsun> what have you adjusted thus far?
<Mez> just added xinit
<crimsun> ok
<Mez> what have you adjusted?
<crimsun> nothing yet, just merged the libmysqlclient14-dev diff from -2ubuntu2
<Mez> why does that need to be done?
<ajmitch> rock, I have a sid gnome session running in Xnest from the chroot
<tseng> oh thats awesome
<tseng> i need that setup
<ajmitch> doesn't work terribly well, the menus show & then disappear
<tseng> i see
<tseng> well i can vouch for it not sucking
<tseng> if that means anything
<crimsun> Mez: it doesn't; I didn't look at 0.18.1's changes (oops)
<donsmith> hey quick question, does anyone here know of a irc client for linux like colloquy on the mac?
<tseng> screenshot?
<Mez> :P
<tseng> ive never heard of it
<Mez> crimsun: hehe
<mbreit> tseng: http://colloquy.info/screenshots.html
<donsmith> http://colloquy.info/screenshots.html
<donsmith> oops beat me
<tseng> that isnt that far off from xchat-gnome
<tseng> just a littler bit shinnier
<donsmith> well the best view is the bubble theme
<tseng> i hate the speech bubble stuff
<donsmith> it's kinda like ichat irc
<donsmith> yeah I just think it makes thingss less intimidating
* ajmitch gets busy importing ~1000 images as a test
<mbreit> n8 all
<crimsun> Mez: are you building on i386?
<Mez> trying
<Mez> well, building on k7
<crimsun> ok, it'll snag nastily on amd64 (my dev environment)
<Mez> maybe I shoiuld use dev.k.o.u
<crimsun> mpegvideo.c:26: error: extended registers have no high halves
<crimsun> I'll have to look at this later tonight
<Mez> yeah, it's building fine for me ... so far
<Mez> I'm just trying to work out where the mixer for my TV card's gone :D
<Mez> lol
<Mez> well
<Mez> er...
<Mez> mythtv's always been broken on anythng but 1386 hasnt it
<LaserJock> heah, guys i have a question. I would like to see the newest version of Scigraphica packaged, I guess for Breezy. Where can I see if anybody is working on it?
<ajmitch> Mez: that troll in #u-d isn't even very good at it :)
<Mez> ajmitch, lol :D I know
* Mez sighs and pokes alsa
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> does the current build has in issue regarding gtk/cairo dependencies?
<jtan325> hi. i am looking to make a debian package for an unpackaged program, conky, and would like some tips on where to start.
<jtan325> i know the debian policy manual is essential
<jtan325> and i've browsed through what i could find on the wiki
<jtan325> but are there other good places for information, either ubuntu-specific or for debian packaging?
<ajmitch> the new maintainer's guide is a start, but it's a bit lacking
* ajmitch needs to hunt down Unfrgiven & find his doc drafts
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, right
<jsgotangco> IntroDeveloperDocs right?
<siretart> morning
<jtan325> so that's about it
<jtan325> ?
<jtan325> for resources on where to start
<siretart> jtan325: did you already look at DeveloperRessources?
<siretart> jtan325: I put there some links to debian-woman, I like their tutorials
<jtan325> looks good
<jtan325> thanks
<jtan325> and
<jtan325> what is the submission policy for breezy
<jtan325> deadlines?
<siretart> we are already in feature freeze
<siretart> that means we are now stabilizing breezy
<Burgundavia> jtan325, if you are speaking about new packages, for universe mdz has oked them until the end, but you need to get a motu to approve it
<siretart> but for universe, we are a bit more lax for 'leaf' packages, i.e. packages with no reverse dependencies
<siretart> ah, hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut siretart
<jtan325> sorry, i've heard of dependencies
<jtan325> but reverse dependencies?
<jtan325> and mdz = what?
<phlaegel> mdz is an ubuntu developer
<robitaille> mzd = man in charge of everything (Matt Zimmerman)
<siretart> jtan325: reverse dependencies are packages, which depend on a given package
<robitaille> s/mzd/mdz
<Treenaks> mdz is the LEAD UBUNTU DEVELOPER </sounder>
<jtan325> lol good to know
<jtan325> siretart, as opposed to dependencies then?
<jtan325> i thought dependencies are a package relying on some other package...
<siretart> jtan325: dependencies are packages, which a package depend on. see the difference?
<siretart> +s
<jtan325> ohhhh
<jtan325> i see
<jtan325> ok
<siretart> think of an dependency tree
<jtan325> and "bit more lax"
<jtan325> means what?
<jtan325> conky is a little system monitor program, revived from the de-funct torsmo package
<siretart> a bit more lax means, that we update 'leaf' packages, when we believe they are a useful addition and don't destabilize the universe :)
<phlaegel> speaking of new packages, I'd like to see the zero-install injector in universe. It's a pretty simple python app.
<jtan325> ok
<Seveas> Treenaks, hehehe :)
<jtan325> but i mean, so there's no real deadlines then?
<siretart> phlaegel: do you already have it prepared? is it ready for inclusion?
<jtan325> i have no idea how long it'll take for me to make a good package of conky
<jtan325> so that's only why i ask
<jtan325> so i know how hard i gotta work every day :-)
<siretart> jtan325: well, thats a difficult question. The deadline is already over, in principle
<jtan325> yeah
<phlaegel> siretart: I'm just looking at the packaging docs on the wiki... all I've done so far is take the debian package from the z-i site and rebuild it to work on ubuntu.
<siretart> jtan325: in practical, for hoary, we had xfce fixed only a day the archive was closed for cd manufacturing, IIRC
<siretart> but nobody really want that.
<jtan325> yeah
<jtan325> what's the honest estimate on learning how to package
<jtan325> for a guy who's pretty familiar with shell scripting and unix
<siretart> phlaegel: so upstream already provides debian packages?
<jtan325> (time estimate)
<Seveas> jtan325, it takes about 3 to 5 packages before you do it correctly :)
<phlaegel> siretart: yeah, but they need some changes... all I did was remove the python << 2.4 dep and change contents from /usr/lib/python2.3 to 2.4
<jtan325> oh man
<jtan325> haha
<siretart> jtan325: that really depends on the complexity of your package. easy packages are done in few minutes for an expirienced packager. to learn that, it's not much more than a few hours. for a more complex package, its not forseeable, I think :)
<jtan325> then i better work hard
<jtan325> so. debian policy manual. debian new main. guide
<Seveas> jtan325, it takes months/years before you can package glibc or the kernel :)
<jtan325> and the stuff on the developer wiki page
<siretart> phlaegel: cool!
<jtan325> or is that too much reading?
<jtan325> conky really only has one dependency, i think it's on the low end of complexity
<siretart> phlaegel: If you think, your package is ready for inclusion, you need to show your package to MOTU's, and get 3 advocates (MOTUs). then we upload your package
<siretart> phlaegel: iterate that a few times with fixing existing packages, and you'll become a MOTU on your own :)
<jtan325> so it's good for me to practice on, and i'd like to get it done fast but as high quality as possible too
<jtan325> debian policy manual is huge....
<siretart> oh yes
<siretart> but debian is huge, too
<phlaegel> siretart: ok, so I'll look over docs and see what else I need to do to it. should I just come back here to get advocates?
<jtan325> hmmm ok well i better get cracking then. i am sure i'll be looking for help in the future here. thanks
<siretart> phlaegel: in principle, yes. Nowadays, we have a platform to present those packages. It is called 'REVU'
<siretart> phlaegel: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu
<phlaegel> siretart: great, thanks.
<siretart> it was written to faciliate the reviewing process for us MOTU's. but you see the backlog ;)
<phlaegel> yeah... so if I upload there, will it make it through in time?
<phlaegel> for breezy, I mean
<siretart> I'm very confident
<siretart> we make review days on a regular basis
<phlaegel> ok, excellent... I'll look it over in the morning then. thanks again. time to sleep now. :-)
<siretart> It is 9am over here :)
<phlaegel> midnight here
<siretart> hehe
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> hope to get a sponsorship as well...
<ajmitch> yeah, you deserve it more than I do
<\sh> no...I don't even know if I can get those days off
<ajmitch> ah
<\sh> and I don't know...if i have to pay the visas fee at the immigration or if I should apply for it here at the embassy
<ajmitch> I've already asked & got approved for time off
<\sh> i will ask today..call the embassy and get everything straight
* ajmitch happily doesn't need a visa for canada
<\sh> well..tourist visa...6months..51 
<\sh> or 75 C$
<\sh> anyways...need a coffee...before the customers are calling in...after i destroyed their sdt
<ajmitch> not bad
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> br
<\sh> b
<siretart> hi \sh
<siretart> sponsorship for what?
<siretart> did I miss something?
<ajmitch> UbuntuBelowZero
<siretart> aah! :)
<robitaille> as if it will that cold in Montreal in October....
<ajmitch> colder than NZ, I'd imagine :)
<robitaille> now if it was in February, then it will really be below zero :)
<ajmitch> UDU was nice & warm in sydney
<Burgundavia> montreal will not be that cold
<jsgotangco> my god
<jsgotangco> they can't be serious
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: ?
<siretart> ajmitch: do you have a notify on the whole wiki? ;)
<jsgotangco> he does
<ajmitch> yes, I do
<siretart> hehe
<Treenaks> ajmitch: do you read it all?
<ajmitch> Treenaks: of course not :)
<robitaille> who would do that?
<robitaille> :)
<ajmitch> just the interesting bits
<ajmitch> interesting bits just happen to be spread all over the wiki though
<robitaille> It's intersting to note that most wiki editing these days are about laptops tests
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> the laptop testing team has really taken off
<ajmitch> Burgundavia's template is great
<jsgotangco> what is the temp at Montreal during these months?
<Burgundavia> has a few bugs
<jsgotangco> (late Oct to Nov)
<robitaille> probably 5C at night 10C during the days
<Treenaks> link? :)
<Burgundavia> possibly some snow if it dips below freezing
<jsgotangco> brrrr
<ajmitch> oh man
* jsgotangco loves the sunny asian weather
<ajmitch> google local rocks..
<Treenaks> Shit!
* jsgotangco fills up anyways
<Burgundavia> hey, april/may is almost worse
<Burgundavia> hot and sticky
* Treenaks 's alarm bells go off
<Treenaks> We planned a Dutch LoCoTeam meeting (2 days of hacking in a bungalow) right around that time
<robitaille> chances of snow in late Oct/early Nov in Montreal are slim.  But I grew up 500km north of Montreal, and tradionally first real snow was at that time.
<robitaille> monthly temp averages:  http://tinyurl.com/99qs2
<jsgotangco> hahaha wiki collision
<jsgotangco> wtf
* jsgotangco waits for Treenaks to finish
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, my extensive blogging and posting has also helped
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: done
<jsgotangco> ahh there's a love day
<jsgotangco> that's good
<Burgundavia> anybody know who is working on NM now?
<Burgundavia> seems to be the hated step-child
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: not sure, I think it's stuck in universe now due to immaturity
<siretart> Burgundavia: I've seen j^ talking yesterday about it
<\sh> ah fresh coffee
<siretart> Burgundavia: in #ubuntu-devel
<Burgundavia> ok
* ajmitch might have to brush up on his french ;)
<Burgundavia> don't worry about it
<Burgundavia> montreal is completely bilingual
<ajmitch> I know
<Burgundavia> the servers have a habit of responding to broken french in english
<\sh> Burgundavia: do u know if I can pay the visa at immigration office at montreal airport?
<\sh> or whereever I will land
<\sh> I don't know if I have to apply for the visa at our local embassy or if I get one at immigrations
<ajmitch> local embassy, usually
<jsgotangco> id rather consult the local embassy
<jsgotangco> just to be safe
<robitaille> \sh:  I don't know.    never heard of anyone paying it at the airport on arrival
<\sh> well...then I have to call them today to get the informations
<ajmitch> why today?
<jsgotangco> well you can just check online
<Burgundavia> \sh, if you need a visa (which germans shouldn't), then you should get it beforehand
<jsgotangco> and see the requirements
<Treenaks> jsgotangco: where?
<Treenaks> oh http://www.columbusguides.co.uk/data/can/can040.asp
<Burgundavia> europeans shouldn't need visas
<jsgotangco> yeah generally
<\sh> oh i don't need a visa...so the information is wrong on the mentioned page of the wiki page
<ajmitch> \sh: yep
<\sh> I just read it on the german canadian embassy page ,-)
<Treenaks> VISAS:  Required by all except the following for stays of up to six months:
<Treenaks> (b) 5. nationals of EU countries (except Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Slovak Republic, who do require a visa);
<ajmitch> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.html
<robitaille> http://canadainternational.gc.ca/gtc/Going_To_Canada-en.aspx  is the official web site from the Canadian government
<\sh> Treenaks: it's wrong ,-)
<ajmitch> robitaille: yeah, similar to what I saw
<\sh> or didn't i understand the text correctly
<robitaille> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.html    Germany is not in there
<ajmitch> \sh: you misunderstood
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...:)
<ajmitch> robitaille: look at the bottom, it has the exceptions
<\sh> i should learn french
<robitaille> \sh you don't need french in Montreal.
* ajmitch hasn't learnt french since 1998 or so :)
<ajmitch> robitaille: it's fun to learn though
<robitaille> downtown montreal is actually more english than french
<robitaille> I was born with it :)
<robitaille> now english was another story...
<jsgotangco> $75 is not too bad
<siretart> does anyone now sh@warma.dk?
<siretart> know
<siretart> even
<ajmitch> siretart: no, haven't seen him round
<ajmitch> unless I don't recognise the nick
<siretart> ajmitch: he has worked on turck-mmcache, but the debian bugreports look very scary
<siretart> ajmitch: scary as in 'the licence renders it undistributable'
<ajmitch> turck-mmcache is dropped upstream
<siretart> but eaccelerator is not yet available
<lathiat> ah yes turck
<ajmitch> forked to become eaccelerator after the turck author got hired by zend
<lathiat> the php accelerator that got so good
<ajmitch> I had similar issues with it
<lathiat> that he was hired by zend
<lathiat> and it stopped development
<ajmitch> I've heard that APC is very nice
<ajmitch> lathiat: yes, as I just said ;)
<lathiat> lag
<ajmitch> you need a faster tin can & string
<lathiat> its true
<ajmitch> maybe if you move to korea
<lathiat> watching #commits is veerryy interesting
<ajmitch> oh?
<lathiat> see all sorts of cool stuff
<ajmitch> what projects?
<lathiat> such as someone commiting an ebuild for avahi to gentoo this morning
* ajmitch is guessing that's the channel the CIA bots spew into
<lathiat> yeh
<lathiat> it spews everything in there
<ajmitch> yeah, I've been in there
<\sh> ok...I just blocked those days for holiday...w8 for approval
<ajmitch> :)
<jsgotangco> nice
<ajmitch> took me about 30 seconds to get approval at our weekly work meeting
<jsgotangco> hmmm forcing to join an AP doesnt work either
<jsgotangco> i am blessed
* ajmitch wonders if jsgotangco has anything new on his blog today.. :)
<Burgundavia> couldn't figure out why my wireless was not working in either OS today. Discovered I have a hardware switch for turning on and off my wireless. Guess which position it was in?
<jsgotangco> my blog isnt aggregated
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I know, but I stumbled across it in google
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> right
<ajmitch> when searching for something about dunedin
<jsgotangco> planet doesn't like my blog
<ajmitch> and you mentioned me :)
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> heh
<sedak> hello all !
<jsgotangco> i should have enough money by january to go to LCA just in case
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: that would be good
<ajmitch> hi sedak
<sedak> i was wondering, what is supposed to be in the distribution field in the changelog for new package ?
<ajmitch> breezy
<sedak> ok
<sedak> i change that unstable then :-)
<ogra> argh
<Burgundavia> hmm?
<\sh> ogra: g'morning
<ogra> siretart, gnome-power is obsoleted by gnome-power-manager
<Burgundavia> siretart, does londonlaw not build against gtk 2.6?
<Burgundavia> siretart, s/gtk 2.6/wx 2.6
<siretart> Burgundavia: last time I tried, I think it did
<siretart> ogra: oh. I just wanted to help and get it installable
<Burgundavia> siretart, ok, the latest package has some interesting issues
<siretart> Burgundavia: interesting as in what?
<\sh> hmmm....launchpad integration into gajim
<ogra> siretart, yes, my fault, it should have been morgiufied
<\sh> would be nice
<Burgundavia> siretart, ImportError: No module named wxversion
<siretart> Burgundavia: which version did you try?
<siretart> mine or the version mbreit touched?
<Burgundavia> siretart, -ubuntu3
<ogra> \sh, talk to upstream, if they use libgnomeui it will be automated :)
<siretart> ok. will look into it
<\sh> ogra: no...they use only pygtk...no gnome stuff
<\sh> but
<ogra> then you have to patch it :/
<\sh> well...what about adding some python2.4-gnome2 calls
<\sh> should be easy
<\sh> actually...let me fix the package first
<\sh> can gnome display .ico files as well as menu icons?
<ogra> i never tried
<\sh> doesn't matter...i will provide a new one :)
* ajmitch looks for something to work on.. :)
<ajmitch> oh, I know, cleaning the agenda for the MOTU meeting
<siretart> when is the next meeting?
<ajmitch> 24th, 2000 UTC
<siretart> tomorrow then. thanks
<ajmitch> so in < 36 hours
* ajmitch has set aside time from work this time round :)
<siretart> :)
<\sh> hmmm...how can I import an ical file directly from web in evolution?
<\sh> the importing doesn't have network functionality
<\sh> it seems...or I'm a gnome noob
<siretart> \sh: try webcal:// instead of http://
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting <-- please add your agenda items
<jtan325> hi, another n00b question: what does "upstream sources" mean?
<lathiat> jtan325: The sources coming from the project
<\sh> hmmm..
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | for reviewing (NEW or updated)? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ | First priority: MERGING , deadline was 2005-07-21 buglist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | http://wiki.debian.net/?EtchSlang2upgrade | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting <-- please add your agenda items
<\sh> cannot resolv hostname
<jtan325> "If changes to the source code are made that are not specific to the needs of the Debian system, they should be sent to the upstream authors in whatever form they prefer so as to be included in the upstream version of the package."
<lathiat> ajmitch: wanna come to the next CC meeting and blow my trumpet? :)
<jtan325> i get the impression that it's a special version of the package
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | for reviewing (NEW or updated)? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ | First priority: MERGING , deadline was 2005-07-21 buglist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | http://wiki.debian.net/?EtchSlang2upgrade | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting <-- please add your agenda items, meeting on 2005-08-24 20:0
<ajmitch> lathiat: sure, but that's next week
<lathiat> ajmitch: i know :)
<ajmitch> nasty topic limits..
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | for reviewing (NEW or updated)? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ | First priority: MERGING , deadline was 2005-07-21 buglist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | http://wiki.debian.net/?EtchSlang2upgrade | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting <-- please add your agenda items, meeting on 24th 20:00UTC
<ajmitch> TB meeting in 11 hours
<lathiat> 4am tomororw huh
<jtan325> or is it really just the in-development source
<ajmitch> lathiat: thankfully 8AM for me
<lathiat> jtan325: its whatever source you are using
<lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<lathiat> its ok
<lathiat> i have this week off uni
<ajmitch> nice
<lathiat> and my sleeping pattern is sideways atm anyway
<ajmitch> so you've got no excuse for missing the MOTU meeting
<lathiat> so much so that my nana accused me of being on drugs
<ajmitch> 4am thursday morning for you
<ajmitch> haha
<lathiat> yeh well uh
<lathiat> someone remind me sometime earlier on wednesday :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> what's your phone number? ;)
<\sh> grmpf..
<ajmitch> should be reasonably cheap from NZ->AU at that hour of the morning..
<lathiat> {0,+61)415 924 736 :)
<\sh> ogra: what is the best way to deliver a new binary file without chaging orig.tar.gz
<lathiat> bah silly archlinux breaking their kernel headers
<ogra> uuencode
<lathiat> not that ubuntu didnt have the same problem a couple months ago
<ogra>  /uudecode
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> build-dep on sharutils
<ogra> yup
<\sh> ok..but this is the best solution
<ogra> i guess you want to add an icon
<ajmitch> lathiat: added it to my phone :)
<lathiat> ajmitch: ok :)
<\sh> ogra: yeah
<ogra> then this is the best method :)
<jtan325> is there a "good" package to unpack and look at the contents of, yet is not too complex?
<jtan325> something that'd be good to learn from?
<sedak> ogra, do you have a few minutes free to review a package ?
<sedak> jtan325, i suppose you can look at a package using autotools, but i don't know which one :-)
<siretart> jtan325: apt-get source hello
<jtan325> ok thanks
<jtan325> is there another way to "unpack" a .deb file besides apt-get source?
<ajmitch> dpkg-source
<\sh> a binary deb?
<ajmitch> you generally don't unpack .deb files
<\sh> because there r no source-deps ,-)
<ajmitch> since a source package is (usually) a, orig.tar.gz, a .diff.gz, and a .dsc file :)
<jtan325> man i am way too confused
<jtan325> so i am readying this policy manual
<jtan325> there are binary packages and source packages
<ajmitch> policy is best used for reference :)
<jtan325> oh
<jtan325> is there something that starts from the ground up
<\sh> jtan325: source packages == *.dsc, *.diff.gz, *.orig.tar.gz
<siretart> Burgundavia: for londonlaw, I think the most intersting issue is that it is not installable..
<jtan325> from someone who uses synaptic and apt-get install only :-)
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<ajmitch> \sh: did I not say that? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: sometimes we have to repeat ,-)
<Burgundavia> siretart, guess I am lucky, having it already installed
<jtan325> lol
<jtan325> i was going to get to that right next
<ajmitch> haha
<jtan325> but policy manual is listed as "essential"
<jtan325> literally, on the debian site
<jtan325> so i was like
<mbreit> siretart: i fixed londonlaw yesterday...
<jtan325> ok, alot of reading, but maybe i can get a good overview
* ajmitch is _very_ disappointed that noone has added an item to the MOTUMeeting page...
<mbreit> siretart: and it was installable before, but did not run
* Burgundavia goes to add a spurious one just to keep ajmitch happy
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: yay! :)
<\sh> ajmitch: we have time enough :) let me think about some points
<siretart> mbreit: not it is not installable again, because of foo in wxwindows2.4, see the upload 20h ago, I'm already on it
<mbreit> ouh? i think i build it against the new wxwindows?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, done
<jtan325> also, i just realized I sorta stormed in here and started asking questions. am i even in the right place for this kind of stuff? is there a #ubuntu-motu-help or something?
<ajmitch> \sh: I know, this is just my weekly bugging people about it ;)
<siretart> mbreit: maybe or maybe not, in any case, dependencies must be adjusted as instructed in the changelog of wxwindows2.4
<\sh> ajmitch: and the patches towards debian..utnubu-project ,-)
<mbreit> siretart: that's true...
<ajmitch> \sh: utnubu is only part of the solution
<mbreit> siretart: but i just installed it again here... it _works_ ;)
<ajmitch> we're the other part ;)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: wonderful topic there...
<\sh> ajmitch: believe me...we will have enough work with getting all universe packages build for gcc4/g++4...breezy will be no "super duper release" for universe
<ajmitch> \sh: I know :)
<ajmitch> \sh: that's why I wanted to discuss what we are targetting - since noone seems to have a simple answer to 'how can I help?'
<\sh> ajmitch: that's why I think, we should concentrate on fixing and polishing and upload our patches to malone...and debian should catch them
<siretart> mbreit: no problem. Uplodaing ubuntu4 right now
<mbreit> cool
<siretart> Burgundavia: hrhr
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you asked for it
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: well, I was really asking for useful things to discuss
<Burgundavia> I really want unfrgivens docs
<ajmitch> so do I
<ajmitch> I'm not sure how much he's done, but I'd like to see them anyway
<siretart> GNAAAARF!
<siretart> my subversion javahl with gcj patch doesn't work anymore :(
<ajmitch> \sh: so do you have a list of packages that need gcc 4.0 love?
<siretart> ajmitch: subversion :P
<ajmitch> siretart: subversion itself is broken?
<siretart> ajmitch: no. But in jul, I managed to get javahl built with gcj-4.0
<ajmitch> aha
<siretart> ajmitch: it is disabled atm for licensing reasons..
<ajmitch> java == evil
<siretart> jepp :/
<mbreit> could someone upload http://mo42.ath.cx/maxima.debdiff for me?
* ajmitch waits for maxima source to download :)
<mbreit> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> 10MB source, takes awhile
<ajmitch> having sid in an Xnest window is odd :)
<siretart> GNAAARF!
<havoc> bah, morning :(
<siretart> ajmitch: do you have a minute and could do my a favor?
<ajmitch> siretart: sure
<siretart> ajmitch: please do a apt-get source openal in sid, and do a `ls debian/*`
<siretart> ajmitch: please note that debian/tmpbin
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/byDate/
<siretart> ajmitch: now have a look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323054 and and compare the date of the last upload with that bugreport
<siretart> ajmitch: argl. sorry, silly me, I mixed the dates up
<ajmitch> ok..
<siretart> ajmitch: but still. do you think that would warrant an NMU?
<ajmitch> \sh: is he throwing all of universe at that now?
<\sh> I think it's everything
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch looked there a few weeks ago & it looked fairly empty
<\sh> ask lamont/infinity about it
<ajmitch> siretart: give me time to d/l it :)
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> \sh: infinity said that elmo was flushing the wanna-build db every few days
<ajmitch> siretart: it's most likely just missing a /, right?
<ajmitch> or I guess the packager is just on a little crack & using things like tmplib, tmpbin, etc...
<siretart> ajmitch: it need the patch from here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323054
<siretart> on crack hits the point
<ajmitch> siretart: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=witten@debian.org - he doesn't seem overly reponsive to bugs
<ajmitch> considering how many of the grave/serious bugs are just fixed in NMUs
<siretart> ajmitch: jepp :/
<siretart> ajmitch: and fenio is waiting for being able to update scorched3d. it needs this dammed openal-config
<ajmitch> ugh
* ajmitch wonders if it's a grave or serious bug though
<siretart> perhaps I sould raise severity
<siretart> but its really trivial
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> trivial fix doesn't mean trivial severity
<Burgundavia> siretart, did I mention that you totally rock (I am looking forward to kicking my brothers ass at scorched3d)
<ajmitch> it's just that it's missing 1 file..
<siretart> Burgundavia: it still not in breezy ;)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: perhaps if we all get to montreal, we can have a game or three :)
<Burgundavia> siretart, yes, but it is being worked on. That is enough for me
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, I see the maintainer did the last upload..
<ajmitch> so with a bit of luck he might fix this one too
<siretart> ajmitch: he updated to cvs version, miss the debian/tmpbin shit
* ajmitch doesn't have experience with NMU politics :-/
* Burgundavia doesn't understand stupid debian turf war crap
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: neither do I ;)
<ajmitch> debian is like the ultimate in feudal states at times..
<Burgundavia> to be honest, I am surprised they manage to do so much
<pef> hello
<pef> can someone have a look at http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=413 ?
<StrikeForce> howdy all
<siretart> how to retreive the shlibs file from a binary deb with dpkg-deb?
<ajmitch> pef: looks fairly good..
<ajmitch> siretart: why do you need to do that?
<StrikeForce> Can someone have a look at http://www.smlintl.com.au/packages/ please
<siretart> for fun. I try to check the bugs of openal
<pef> siretart: hi
<siretart> hi pef
<ajmitch> siretart: as an example..
<ajmitch> dpkg-deb -I libdoodle1_0.6.2-3ubuntu1_i386.deb shlibs
<siretart> argl. -I was it
<ajmitch> :)
<StrikeForce> I think you looked at it before ajmitch
<siretart> libopenal 0 libopenal0
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: quite possibly
<siretart> ajmitch: looks great, does it?
<StrikeForce> lol
<ajmitch> ah yes, rufus..
<pef> siretart: can I get your vote again for this package ? http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=413
<ajmitch> you have an updated version, what changes?
<siretart> pef: I'm just building it
<Burgundavia> night all
<siretart> gn8 Burgundavia
<StrikeForce> well it works now
<StrikeForce> lol
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: always a good improvement ;)
<StrikeForce> I didn't use the script at all
<StrikeForce> so I just used dh_install
<StrikeForce> although I had to re-do the source so the dll's are there
<StrikeForce> I was going to add a command to delete the dll's
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: ok, you can remove all those commented-out dh_* calls in debian/rules
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: no, you really do have to make sure they're gone from the orig.tar.gz :)
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<ajmitch> this is one of those special cases where you *have* to repack the orig.tar.gz
<StrikeForce> yeah I will I left most of the stuff there for the time being
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<ajmitch> :)
<StrikeForce> I've still got lots of work to do yet but I wanted to know if the skeleton was ok
<StrikeForce> I can clean most of it up
<StrikeForce> also one question I did have when putting the source in the /usr/share/rufus should I take out all the docs?
<ajmitch> I don't think you want to depend on wxpython2.5.3 (>= 2.5.3.1)
<ajmitch> as it won't be in sid or breezy
<StrikeForce> ahh k :(
<StrikeForce> I haven't tried another version
<StrikeForce> so I'm not sure if it'll work
<ajmitch> I'd suggest trying wx 2.6
<StrikeForce> erm just take it from breezy?
<ajmitch> and looking at the changelog for wxpython 2.6 to see what the debian magic incantations are
<ajmitch> yes
<StrikeForce> huh? re wxpython?
<ajmitch> we don't target new packages for hoary
<StrikeForce> ahh yes fair enough
<ajmitch> /usr/share/doc/wxpython2.6-0/changelog.gz
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<ajmitch> has the magic calls
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<StrikeForce> sweet I'll take a look
<ajmitch> ok :)
<StrikeForce> one question cause I just put it so it has wxpython > 2.5.3
<ajmitch> there might be a new wxpython in the archive at the moment, or real soon now
<StrikeForce> cause that would have the same effect then
<StrikeForce> it would be greater than
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: but you depended on wxpython2.5.3
<ajmitch> there is no package called that
<StrikeForce> oh ok
<StrikeForce> cause thats what the package is called on my comp?
<ajmitch> or at least there won't be :)
<StrikeForce> or is it changing
<StrikeForce> ahh k
<StrikeForce> so I'll change the 2.5.3 to just wxpython (>=2.5.3.1
<ajmitch> it's been removed from the archive, but not from your computer
<StrikeForce> erm you know what I mean
<StrikeForce> oh ok
<StrikeForce> actually its probably removed from my comp I got the info off of there website
<StrikeForce> and it was built against that so I figured I should use that :)
<ajmitch> depend on python-wx2.6 if you want 2.6
<ajmitch> but check - there were changes between 2.5.3 & 2.6
<StrikeForce> no I just checked I don't have 2.6
<StrikeForce> or python-wx2.6
<StrikeForce> any other major stuff ups
<ajmitch> are you running breezy?
<StrikeForce> nope
<StrikeForce> I'm running hoary
<StrikeForce> I've been told not to use breezy cause its buggy
<ajmitch> that will be why you don't have them then :)
<pef> :)
<StrikeForce> I suppose I should create a chroot env
<lathiat> ajmitch: http://www.burtonini.com/debian/breezy/
<ajmitch> excellent..
<siretart> uh. raff definitly need a new home. bugs.d.o is reaaaaly dogslow :(
<lathiat> they should be set to go now
<lathiat> if you want to look
<ajmitch> do you think I'll be allowed to bypass REVU, considering that these are done by a DD? :)
<lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> ogra_!
<lathiat> maybe just ask a couple people to have a squeeze :)
<ajmitch> lathiat: yeah, if ogra_ is actually around I'll beg for his approval
<ogra_> GRMPF
<lathiat> ajmitch: just dont upload yet
<lathiat> ajmitch: might get a couple extra patches rolled in first
<ajmitch> ogra_: avahi debs, made by a DD, want to get them into breezy, ok by you? :)
<ajmitch> not in sid yet due to sid being ages behind ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: did u check them_
<\sh> ?
<ajmitch> \sh: of course I'm checking them
<\sh> no lunch util deskjet mir is fixed...damn russian channel
<ajmitch> \sh: and lathiat is upstream
<ogra_> ajmitch, expanding universe !! :)
<\sh> ok now
<ajmitch> ogra_: heh
<ogra_> go ahead
<ajmitch> thanks
<lathiat> yay
<ogra_> new packages are no problem... nothing depends on them, so they cant break much
<ajmitch> ogra_: I know, but it bypasses our REVU procedures
<ajmitch> but then so does apt-get.org
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> ajmitch, if you approved it and its from a DD, i'm fine with that....
<ajmitch> we've been having lots of reviewing fun
<ajmitch> ogra_: ok, thanks
<pef> brb
<ajmitch> \sh: now what else was I going to approve of yours?
<lathiat> ajmitch: http://bur.st/~lathiat/avahi-patches/
<lathiat> ajmitch: throw those in debian/patches to review, i've sent them to ross to be added
<ajmitch> lathiat: ok.. what do you want me to review? :)
<lathiat> ajmitch: i dunno, just uh whatever? :)
<lathiat> i'm just doing some more testing now myself
<ajmitch> lathiat: heh ok
<StrikeForce> ajmitch, was there anything else that needed doing?
<ajmitch> StrikeForce: probably, but I just did a quick look..
<StrikeForce> kk
<StrikeForce> Should I just create a chroot environment or install all of breezy?
<ajmitch> chroot
<StrikeForce> kk
<siretart> are orig.tar.gz allowed in the mean time?
<Mez> what version has FF breakages
<Mez> ubuntu9?
<siretart> are orig.tar.bz2 allowed in the mean time?
<siretart> sorry
<ajmitch> siretart: not sure, you'd have to ask the archive gods
<mbreit> ajmitch: did you upload maxima?
<ajmitch> mbreit: soon, I haven't forgot it :)
<mbreit> ajmitch: cool ;)
<ajmitch> uploaded
<ajmitch> lathiat: avahi built, at least, now what can I do with it? :)
<lathiat> ajmitch: install avahi-daemon and avahi-utils and run avahi-discover :)
<ajmitch> lathiat: only change I had to make was 0.1-1 to 0.1-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> to be consistent, since the binary build wouldn't be the same between debian & breezy
<lathiat> ajmitch: ok
<lathiat> ajmitch: few changes and stuff to go yet
<lathiat> ajmitch: but its just technical really
<ajmitch> mbreit: maxima took awhile to upload with that massive diff.gz
<ajmitch> lathiat: that's cool, how long do you expect it to take?
<mbreit> ajmitch: thanks!
<ajmitch>   File "dbus_bindings.pyx", line 349, in dbus_bindings.Connection.send_with_reply_and_block
<ajmitch> dbus_bindings.DBusException: The name org.freedesktop.Avahi was not provided by any .service files
<ajmitch> it is teh borken
* ajmitch is surprised :)
<ajmitch> lathiat: is there some dbus magic that is needed, like restarting it?
<lathiat> ajmitch: yes
<lathiat> ajmitch: you need to restart dbus to pick up the security
<mbreit> grrrr..... maxima rejected... i did not change the distribution to breezy :(
<lathiat> ajmitch: thatl then start avahi-daemon
<ajmitch> mbreit: argh, how could I miss that? :)
<mbreit> ajmitch: could you change that and upload it again? would be easier than making a new debdiff ;)
<ajmitch> that's what happens when you poke me too much ;)
<ajmitch> lathiat: great, it picked up the iMac running OSX downstairs
<lathiat> ajmitch: sweeet :)
<ajmitch> not the wireless subnet though, but that's expected :)
<lathiat> ajmitch: you shoudl be able to ping <hostname>.local from the imac
<lathiat> ajmitch: yeh, thats what the reflector is for
<lathiat> but uh
<lathiat> its a little buggy in 0.1
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> router is a sarge box anyway
<lathiat> its known to start storming packets out as fast as possible
<ajmitch> I might upgrade it to breezy
<lathiat> which knocks over most adsl modems
<lathiat> if you have that on an interface
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> so should I be able to ping the imac from my box? :)
<ajmitch> using the hostname listed
<lathiat> ajmitch: if you install nss-mdns
<lathiat> ajmitch: and add mdns4 to the hosts line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
<lathiat> libnss-mdns
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> lathiat: so when can we do useful things with avahi? ;)
<lathiat> ajmitch: when $application ahs support :)
<lathiat> ajmitch: theres a patch for gnomemeeting now
<lathiat> sebest did
<lathiat> i think its close to working
<ajmitch> how about nautilus' network servers ?
* ajmitch is surprised that there's no afp support in nautilus :)
<lathiat> im going to patch gnomevfs
<ajmitch> please do
<lathiat> however the code is a total dog and has put me off doing it so far :)
<lathiat> probably do that this week
<ajmitch> hah
<lathiat> its like
<lathiat> 5000 lines
<ajmitch> yeah, doesn't surprise me
<lathiat> its stupid :)
<ajmitch> patch it for avahi or afp? :)
<lathiat> oh
<lathiat> avahi
<lathiat> heh
<lathiat> whats AFP?
<lathiat> apple file stuff?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I can see the docs from the app POV on apple's site
<ajmitch> not sure where protocol docs are, but netatalk implements it, afaik
<ajmitch> lathiat: I see mdnsresponder can advertise services via its config file, does avahi have similar support?
<lathiat> ajmitch: yes, see /etc/avahi/services
<ajmitch> 404 :)
<lathiat> err
<lathiat> there shoudl be an example file
<ajmitch> only avahi-daemon.conf in that dir
<lathiat> posibly in /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon
<lathiat> hrm
<lathiat> hangon
<ajmitch> no, there's a debian/tmp/etc/avahi/services
<ajmitch> so some package should own it
<lathiat> possibly an oversight
<lathiat> it will be an empty dir
<lathiat> does that pose a problem?
<lathiat> inded its not in any of the .install files
* lathiat adds it to the avahi-daemon.install
<ajmitch> ssh.service is in /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/examples
<lathiat> it is?
<ajmitch> yes
<lathiat> thats not in the .install file
<ajmitch> see avahi-daemon.examples
<lathiat> ohhh
<lathiat> i see
<lathiat> didnt knwo about that
<ajmitch> :)
<lathiat> is example.service in there?
<lathiat> shows more use of it
<lathiat> tho id ont think we install that by default so probably not
<ajmitch> there is no /etc/avahi/services dir, however
<ajmitch> which I think should exist
<lathiat> yeh
<lathiat> sent a mail to ross asking to add it
<ajmitch> man avahi-daemon refers to avahi-service(5), which doesn't exist
<lathiat> hrm
<lathiat> that exists
<lathiat> must not be installed
<ajmitch> unless I don't have all the packages installed
<ajmitch> not getting installed, by the look of things
<lathiat> ajmitch: slowly sorting things
<\sh> guys....I just uploaded a new version of njam to revu
<siretart> \sh: advocated
<ajmitch> siretart: that was a quick review ;)
<\sh> thx
<siretart> ajmitch: it wasn't a big change since the last one
<siretart> ajmitch: and my pbuilder went quickly ;)
<\sh> no it wasn't...only fixed the .desktop file, and provided a real png icon for this
<siretart> \sh: btw, you have 3 advocates for gajim :)
* ajmitch should stop being the devil's advocate on revu :)
<siretart> hehe
* ajmitch sighs & advocates njam :)
<ajmitch> see, I can do something other than be picky ;)
<siretart> juhuu
<siretart> 2 new uploads for \sh :)
<ajmitch> well, njam is listed as having 2 advocates
<siretart> well, \sh is motu after all ;)
<ajmitch> true
<siretart> but slomo already advocated earlier
<\sh> siretart: really?
<\sh> siretart: i see only 2
<\sh> hehe
<siretart> \sh: slomo advocated the upload before. that should be sufficient considering the small diff
* ajmitch can cheat & get new packages in without reviews ;)
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> ajmitch: monkey motu ,-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> I'd just need to upload to sid
<\sh> ok and njam is approved as well..nice
<\sh> it works on amd64 as well :)
<ajmitch> \sh: I was being nice for a change :)
<\sh> siretart: so we can play a round of pacman over network :)
<siretart> w00h00 :)
<\sh> ajmitch: which one...
<ajmitch> \sh: ?
<\sh> 13:40 < ajmitch> \sh: I was being nice for a change :)
<ajmitch> I meant I advocated njam for you
<\sh> oh :)
<\sh> ajmitch: but u r always nice...without critics I wouldn't get better ,-)
* ajmitch  wishes he didn't get logged out of revu so quickly
<siretart> ajmitch: I increased the timeout to a few hours, I think
<siretart>         s = Session(req, timeout=43200)
<ajmitch> \sh: being very critical of packaging has helped me when doing my own packages :)
<ajmitch> siretart: right, I just like to have week-long sessions :)
<ajmitch> as I'm the only user of this box & leave my webbrowser open
<\sh> ajmitch: that's right...so every mistake now, is a mistake less in the future
<\sh> ajmitch: that's why we have this review process..and this is good...even for DDs ,-)
<ajmitch> certainly\
<\sh> can anybody tell me: I'm not a DD...but I want to take over one orphaned package...how can I do this?
* ajmitch can't pretend to be important just because he's a DD ;)
<\sh> without upload functionality to debian
<ajmitch> \sh: get a sponsor :)
<ajmitch> and retitle the wnpp report to ITA:
<ajmitch> showing that you intend to adopt
<ajmitch> first upload closes the ITA bug, iirc
<\sh> ajmitch: first I have to check the debian bts to close other bugs ,-)
<\sh> then do the first upload
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> the first upload is the last step on adopting
<ajmitch> after that it's just normal maintenance
<siretart> ajmitch: how long has needs an DD to be unreachable to count as MIA?
<ajmitch> siretart: ah, tough question :)
<ajmitch> usually weeks/months
<ajmitch> there are scripts to tell - based on uploads, bug activity, debian mailing lists
<\sh> njam_1.21-0ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW
<\sh> wow
<ajmitch> congrats
<siretart> grats
<siretart> now wait for the ACCEPTED mail ;)
<\sh> now waiting one week
<\sh> after that bugging elmo ,-)
<franst> hi all
<franst> can i know, is this the right forum to mirror ubuntu repo?
<siretart> franst: hi root :)
<ajmitch> hmm, lately I've been doing more reviewing work than actual packaging, it seems
* ajmitch had better get on top of his 12 or so debian packages that need updated
<franst> :)
<franst> sorry
<siretart> franst: I think you should rather ask in #ubuntu-devel
<franst> ok ok
<franst> thx
<\sh> siretart: i will archive it now in revu (njam)
<siretart> \sh: good idea :)
<ajmitch> are dnspython & gajim uploaded?
<\sh> no...I fix the issues u mentioned first
<ajmitch> ok
<\sh> i'm not a "NEW upload devil" ,-)
<\sh> grmpf...for gwydion-dylan
<\sh> it takes hours to build and then to see that shlibdeps is not right
<\sh> damnit
<\sh> now for the chroot :(
<\sh> but right now I will check firefox first on kde
* ajmitch needs to sleep, will try & get up for TB meeting in 8 hours
<lathiat> night ajmitch :)
<SloMo_> good morning :)
<StrikeForce> night ajmitch
<\sh> fixing gajim
<slomo> \sh: i retried the sawfish upload and didn't get a mail from katie again ;)
<\sh> slomo: katie was somewhat dizzy as I understand..
<slomo> \sh: that means? sometimes she just ignores her job?
<\sh> i don't really know...Think I just pissed of elmo..but not intentionally...think I have to send him really some beer..
<slomo> hm :( and that is the reason why i don't ask him again about that... he seems to be really upset the last days
<siretart> slomo: his baby broke. jenifer seems to be really sad atm.
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> i just installed seahorse and enabled the seahorse agent
<\sh> right now, i can't sign any packages any more
<slomo> are you in a chroot or over ssh?
<\sh> slomo: gnome-terminal with loginshell
<\sh> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<\sh> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<\sh> debuild: fatal error at line 788:
<\sh> running debsign failed
<\sh> and two gpg processes defunct
<\sh> shermann 14543 14497  0 14:01 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh-agent /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session /usr/bin/gnome-session
<\sh> shermann 14872     1  0 15:16 ?        00:00:00 seahorse-agent
<\sh> argl
<slomo> hm works for me...
<\sh> i have now two ssh agents running?
<\sh> peng
<\sh> no
<slomo> nope
<\sh> ssh-agent
<\sh> gpg: can't connect to `/tmp//seahorse-vkzDPS/S.gpg-agent': Verbindungsaufbau abgelehnt
<siretart> seahorse?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> gnome gpg util
<\sh> including gpg-agent for passphrase caching
<siretart> sounds cool
<siretart> des it also cache ssh passphrases?
<slomo> siretart: no... only gpg
<siretart> ok
<siretart> bt still
<\sh> but it's not working
<slomo> for me it is ;) does the socket in /tmp exist or are the maybe more seahorse directories?
<\sh> more then one
<slomo> hm... kill seahorse-agent, delete all the directories and clean you gpg.conf from all the agent stuff... and then start seahorse-agent again
<\sh> i don't have the "use-agent" anymore
<\sh> I just killed seahorse
<\sh> -agent
<\sh> removed the dirs
<\sh> but I think there is something else
<\sh> My main key id is sh@linux-server.org
<\sh> my identity for signing debs is sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> and after typing the passphrase it fails
<\sh> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<\sh> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<\sh> but i disabled use-agent
<slomo> seahorse-agent enables it again on startup
<\sh> and something enabled it in gpg.conf
<siretart> hm.
<\sh> will sort it out this evening
<siretart> \sh: you have setup an sbuild once. is it also possible to inject source packages without having them in the archive yet?
<\sh> siretart: without an separate archive? i don't think so
<siretart> \sh: so we need in any case a private repo for elma, in which we inject the source package first for building them afterwards, right?
<\sh> siretart: that was the plan
<siretart> ok
<\sh> siretart: i mean, we upload the stuff to ftp...
<\sh> mini-dinstall should move it to the correct place..and revu needs to have read access to it
<\sh> this we can do with a small script e.g. I'm running one on my private archive
<siretart> jupp. Just wanted to be sure
* siretart is playing with sbuild on my laptop
<\sh> after that, we can use this as private archive, cause all special files like packages[.gz]  etc. are build and be used for apt-get
<\sh> right now , u have everything in seperate directories?
<\sh> separate
<siretart> jepp
<siretart> but thats bullshit
<\sh> not at all :)
<siretart> my current problem with revu2 is how to manage/handle different candidates with same package version number
<\sh> if we don't do automatical builds, only via webfrontend...we can copy it from there, to the build place...sbuild it..and have the logfiles ready to move back
<lathiat> ajmitch: ross' packages have been updated, shoudl be much better now
* tseng puts colony3 boxes into production
<tseng> farking megaraid driver
<lathiat> tseng: heh
<lathiat> tseng: did you get the preseed stuff going?
<tseng> no
<tseng> the wiki page is a jumbled mess
<tseng> its like 3 install methods in one
<tseng> and i think translated from spanish
<lathiat> heh
<\sh> siretart: there will be no "same version" :)
<\sh> brb
<Yagisan> G'day All
<Yagisan> siretart, slomo thanks for reviewing deng
<Yagisan> slomo: ping
<slomo> Yagisan: pong
<Yagisan> slomo: can you send me a powerpc build log of deng, I want to compare the warnings with i386 and amd64 to see if there are any other porting issues
<slomo> hm, can you tell how i can get a build log from pbuilder?
<Yagisan> sudo pbuilder deng.dsc 2> errors.txt
<Yagisan> :)
<Yagisan> oops missed abit
<slomo> ok ;)
<Yagisan> sudo pbuilder build deng.dsc 2> errors.txt
<Yagisan> I've identified a lot of places to start fixing for 64bit
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> --pkgname-logfile :-)
<slomo> Yagisan: but ppc isn't 64 bit ;)
<Yagisan> I know
<Yagisan> but, if the are 64bit errors
<Yagisan> there are prbally endiness errors too
<Yagisan> probally
<slomo> Yagisan: ok, i'll mail the log to you later
<StrikeForce> Can anyone point out what the wxpython version is in breezy
<StrikeForce> I'm trying to install it in my chroot environment but it can't be found
<Yagisan> thanks Nafallo, that would work too
<Yagisan> Nafallo: the list of 64bit errors is actually bigger then what you found
<Yagisan> Nafallo: Big juicy list here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/64biterrors.txt if you are feeling bored :)
<Yagisan> slomo: thanks
<Nafallo> Yagisan: I used grep to get my list ;-)
<\sh> StrikeForce:
<\sh> python-wxglade - GUI designer written in Python with wxPython
<\sh> python-wxgtk2.4 - wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython binding)
<\sh> python-wxgui - GUI toolkit for GNURadio
<\sh> python-wxversion - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython version selector)
<\sh> wxgtk2.6 is not build right now
<Yagisan> Nafallo: Kdiff3 to see, then grep to extract :)
<StrikeForce> erm yeah
<StrikeForce> which one do I get then?
<StrikeForce> it used to be wxpythong2.5
<StrikeForce> it used to be wxpython2.5
<\sh> wxpython2.4
<\sh> 2.5 is not in the archives
<\sh> 2.6 is not installable i think
<\sh> because of libcairo1
<StrikeForce> hmmm
<StrikeForce> ah k
<\sh> to libcairo2 transition
<\sh> ah MOTUs!
<\sh> libcairo1 to libcairo2 transition is waiting for us :)
<ogra> \sh, meeting agenda ?
<slomo> \sh: apt-cache rdepends libcairo1 only lists maybe 30 packages ;) btw, is someone already working on wxgtk2.6?
<StrikeForce> hmmm
<StrikeForce> so I can't really make a package that depends on wxpython2.5
<StrikeForce> Depends: python2.4-minimal (>= 2.4), wxpython2.5.3 (>= 2.5.3.1),${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<\sh> slomo: infinity
<\sh> ogra: yes...I will put it
<\sh> StrikeForce: so try it with 2.4
<StrikeForce> thats what I have and I want to alter wxpython there however I'm not sure what to replace it with since its not there
<\sh> StrikeForce: there is no wxpython2.5 in ubuntu and never will be
<StrikeForce> 2.4 won't work
<\sh> then u have to wait for 2.6 in the next couple of days
<StrikeForce> wxpython2.5.3 - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython common files) \sh this is what I found just using an apt-cache search wxpython in hoary?
<StrikeForce> \sh, Am I missing something?
<\sh> I don't see any wxpython2.5 in breezy
<\sh> do u use some other repos?
<\sh> wxpython2.4-1 - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython common files)
<\sh> wxpython2.6-0 - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython common files)
<\sh> apt-cache search wxpython
<StrikeForce> just backports
<StrikeForce> but not in breezy
<StrikeForce> in breezy I use universe and the like
<slomo> Yagisan: deng is broken for ppc... change ppc to powerpc in debian/control ;)
<\sh> official backports of ubuntu has wxpython2.5 in the archive, without having it in breezy?
<\sh> i don't think so
<slomo> wasn't 2.5 a few weeks ago in breezy?
<\sh> no in debian i saw it
<\sh> but not in breezy
<StrikeForce> its package name has ubuntu in it
<StrikeForce> so I'm assuming universe should be closed out
<StrikeForce> if its backports it'll have ubp
<StrikeForce> but it doesn't have that
<slomo> \sh: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wxwidgets2.5/
<StrikeForce> it was made by ron lee who is a debian developer or packager since he has a debian.org email address
<Yagisan> slomo: thanks (wouldn't have noticed that, I thought it was ppc)
<\sh> slomo: not in the archives anymore..and I think it was only for transitions
<slomo> \sh: yes but it was there ;)
<tseng> hi ogra!
<tseng> i see a ghost
<\sh> slomo: actually I never saw it
<ogra> boo
<GazerWork> ho guys!, I'm making a package that needs kernel headers, is correct only add linux-headers in Build-Depends?, or I need to specify a version?
<tseng> yay colony3 is intalling
* ogra gives tseng the bag with S's
<tseng> scrabble!
<tseng> holy crap, and it formatted 350gb in a few seconds
<ogra> heh
<tseng> this box is way too powerful
<tseng> for its purpose
<siretart> FYI, the latest upload of deng was not accepted, there was something wrong with the changes file..
<ogra> tseng, send it to me... i can send you a pI with 64MB in exchange
<ogra> ;)
<tseng> haha
<tseng> i have 11 of these
<StrikeForce> \sh,  where are you get the repository for wxpython2.6-0
<StrikeForce> and if it requires only 2.5 is there a way for me to specify it
<StrikeForce> or is it because of the packages having different names I can't?
<StrikeForce> e.g. wxpython2.5.3 or wxpython2.6-0
<ogra> python-wxgtk2.6
<ogra> rather
<Yagisan> siretart: that is odd
<StrikeForce> I don't see 2.6 only 2.4
<ogra> on breezy
<\sh> on hoary you won't see 2.6
<ogra> its to new to be in hoary
<ogra> (and Mez is to lazy to backport it i gues *g*)
<siretart> Yagisan: is this again another key?
<ogra> guess even
<StrikeForce> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted
<StrikeForce> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted
<Yagisan> Siretart: no
<ogra> universe ?
<StrikeForce> thats what I have I thought? \sh
<Yagisan> siretart: just a sec, I'll post my log
<StrikeForce> same thing ogra I have universe
<StrikeForce> just exactly the same line except with breezy instead of hoary
<\sh> ogra: 2.6 is ftbfsing right now because of some cairo2 magic ,-)
<ogra> ogra@honk:~/ubuntu-seeds $ apt-cache policy python-wxgtk2.6
<ogra> python-wxgtk2.6:
<ogra>   Installed: (none)
<ogra>   Candidate: 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu1
<ogra>   Version table:
<ogra>      2.6.1.1.1ubuntu1 0
<ogra>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Packages
<Yagisan> siretart: log is here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/deng_revu_upload.txt it's the same key
<siretart> Yagisan: this is really weird, I reprocessed your upload manually, no need to reupload
<Yagisan> siretart: glad I can help you find bugs
<siretart> Yagisan: log is fine
<siretart> I've never seen that, and cannot explain how that could happen
<siretart> dscverify: /home/ftp/deng_1.8.9+1.9.0beta2-7ubuntu1_source.changes failed signature check:
<siretart> gpg: processing message failed: eof
<siretart> Validation FAILED!!
<siretart> but now it works.. will have an eye on it
<GazerWork> a simple question, why /etc/debian_version exists and say "testing/unstable" ?
<tseng> because we dont change it
<tseng> we are based on unstable
<GazerWork> is there any other file where I can get the ubuntu version?
<tseng> you want lsb_release -i -s
<tseng> version?
<tseng> no
<siretart> GazerWork: we are basically stabilizing a snapshot of debian/unstable (more or less)
<Yagisan> siretart: perhaps a gnupg bug ?
<GazerWork> this is because I'm using xsys plugin for xchat and report that my distro is debian
<janimo> hello motus
<tseng> it is debian
<siretart> Yagisan: perhaps. no idea
<tseng> in most places that count
<siretart> buna siua, janimo :)
<janimo> siretart :) close (ziua)
<tseng> oh
<tseng> lsb_release -r
<janimo> guten tag siretart
<GazerWork> tseng, oks, I understand . thank you :)
<tseng> GazerWork: lsb_release -i -r -s
<siretart> janimo: hehe :)
<tseng> GazerWork: have fun.
<StrikeForce> wierd I still can't find it
<janimo> any moderately brave soul want to review xubuntu-meta?it's really tiny native package like ubuntu-meta and the rest, thanks
<StrikeForce> anyways I can only find 2.4
<StrikeForce> so I'll leave it since it requires 2.5
<StrikeForce> so i'll wait till I can find 2.6
<\sh> janimo: ubuntu-meta is a nasty thing with seeds, right? ,-)
<StrikeForce> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe
<StrikeForce> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe
<janimo> \sh yes, but I skipped that for xubuntu since it's not in main
<\sh> is it xfce ubuntu?
<janimo> but the rest is similar
<StrikeForce> Since I'm assuming that should have the whole universe there ogra
<janimo> \sh yes, that's the plan
<StrikeForce> or am I missing something
<\sh> janimo: u think about the libcairo2 transition later on? tomorrow for MOTU meeting :)
<janimo> \sh what about the trasnition?I was offline for quite a while so I am not reallly up to date
<janimo> I see doko (or seb?) updated soem xfce4 packages
<\sh> libcairo2 replaced libcairo1 so we have to rebuild all packages and adjusting build-deps etc.
<\sh> not all
<janimo> \sh or do you mean general transition work?
<ogra> StrikeForce, nope, but if 2.6 is ftbfs as \sh says, you might probably not find t currently
<\sh> janimo: general but I saw the xfce packages on the rdepends list now ;)
<\sh> and u reminded me now ::)
<siretart> janimo: basically yes. everything depending on libcairo1 must be reuploaded
<StrikeForce> ahh k fair enough ogra is there an eta on when it should be ready ?
* janimo has been dreaming of writing an automatic boring transitioner tool since before hoary
<siretart> janimo: thats basically every xfce package
<janimo> siretart, yesterday I saw many xfce packages updated for cairo2 on the hoary-changes list, but maybe not all
<\sh> janimo: breezy-changes
<siretart> janimo: ah. sounds great
<janimo> I'll have a look these days
<janimo> \sh what
<janimo> \sh what's breezy ;) ?
<\sh> hoary-changes ,-)
<ogra> StrikeForce, it will be ready if someone fixed the ftbfs... feel free to do it ;)
<\sh> u said hoary *eg*
<siretart> janimo: I was dreaming about a tool helping in coordinating transition work. If you can write a tool actually doing the transition before, that would be awesome ;)
<janimo> \sh well little furry bastards they're the same to me :)
<\sh> siretart: doing the adjustments in the control is not the problem...fingersports
<\sh> but is it building?
<janimo> siretart, I am very close to working almost full time on ubuntu stuff so I hope I get around at least trying that tool
<janimo> \sh actually the fingersports is the boring and errorprone one
<\sh> janimo: not with the right macros for vi ,-)
<janimo> \sh right, but still rather then 20 motus doing their vi and emacs magic and download/upload sources
<siretart> janimo: great :)
<\sh> janimo: no...I'm more concerned about build errors...we need some equipment to setup some auto build stuff for all supported archs to test around...
<janimo> how about a nice script running on the ubuntu data center ad doing all that stuff for us ;) ?
<\sh> shit...moemnt...real office work
<janimo> well, isn't past experience showing that the build errors are only a fraction or at least not majority of the packges?
<janimo> things like s/cairo1/cairo2/ on hundreds of packages is mind numbing
<slomo> janimo: hundreds of packages? apt-cache rdepends libcairo1 only lists maybe 30 packages here...
<StrikeForce> lol ogra its my first package I'm sure you don't want me working on something important :P
<slomo> StrikeForce: what important package? ;)
<slomo> StrikeForce: wxwidgets2.6?
<StrikeForce> yeah slomo
<StrikeForce> thats more important that a bittorrent client which is what I'm trying to get ready
<StrikeForce> I have it working for hoary now
<StrikeForce> I'm just transferring it to work
<StrikeForce> and its looking pretty good
<slomo> StrikeForce: well, if you don't want to look at it i'll do :) is there a WIP version or is the breezy one the newest?
<StrikeForce> kk go right ahead :P
<StrikeForce> not sure haven't look at wxpython
<StrikeForce> wxPython 2.6.1.0 thats the newest version
<StrikeForce> apart from cvs which I don't think we want
<slomo> StrikeForce: 2.6.1.1.1ubuntu1 is in breezy
<StrikeForce> can you give me your sources.list then for it because I can't find it
<slomo> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy main restricted universe multiverse
<StrikeForce> do I have to build it then slomo ?
<janimo> slomo, ok I was exagerrating :) but other transitions are not unusual if they have that many packages
<slomo> janimo: well most of the stuff was already done by seb128... iirc he said he uploaded ~150 packages for the cairo transition
<janimo> slomo, see? :)
<janimo> slomo are you a MOTU?
<slomo> janimo: i assume he has made a script for that stuff ;)
<slomo> janimo: yes... but i'm waiting for elmo to add my key to the keyring so i can't upload anything atm... why do you ask? ;)
<janimo> slomo, I guess he did, that kind of script is neede i motuland for transitions
* janimo sends vibes towards slomo rougly translatable as 'please review xubuntu-meta' :)
<janimo> and vote :)
<StrikeForce> is this the correct one slomo libwxgtk2.6-0
<slomo> janimo: i'll make a note and look after the wx stuff ;)
<janimo> slomo, thanks
<slomo> StrikeForce: nope... wxwidgets2.6 couldn't be build in the past
<slomo> crimsun: are you working on wxwidgets2.6?
<\sh> njam compiled on all three archs...wow..I'm proud :)
<StrikeForce> night all take care
<siretart> \sh: grats :)
<\sh> siretart: thx..and elmo will kill me for gajim ,-)
<\sh> just now uploaded as NEW
<siretart> \sh: why that?
<\sh> siretart: why not...:)
<siretart> \sh: it in the queue, he will process it when he comes to that
<siretart> ah, I understand
<\sh> siretart: please answer elmo if he wants somethign from me...i'm off now to head home...
<\sh> just missed my bus
<\sh> thx
<siretart> \sh: I'll have an eye in #ubuntu-devel for you, no problem
<siretart> I think we are a big step further in having a new version of scorched3d :)
<lathiat> siretart: neat
<siretart> lathiat: openal maintainer just promised the scorched3d maintainer in debian he will look into the issue
<lathiat> siretart: nifty
<siretart> 18:17:32 <fEnIo> if he make it I'll try to upload new scorched3d tomorrow
<siretart> :)
<siretart> \sh_away: when you get back, would you also upload gajim? ;)
<slomo> so many new packages today... ;)
<siretart> :)
<slomo> Yagisan: ping?
<Yagisan> slomo: pong
<slomo> Yagisan: change the section... the multiverse/ prefix is added automatically
<slomo> Yagisan: and you'll get the buildlog in a few seconds ;)
<Yagisan> slomo : thanks for the buildlog
<Yagisan> slomo: are you sure multiverse is added automatically ?
<Yagisan> I thought it was only main
<slomo> Yagisan: yes... at least that is what i was told ;)
<slomo> and for my universe packages this was done
<slomo> oh yes, and for the 2 multiverse ones too
<Yagisan> how does it know that it is a multiverse package if I remove it ?
<slomo> you tell elmo to move it to multiverse when it finally gets uploaded ;)
<Yagisan> I'd rather leave it as a) it don't hurt, and b) apt-ftparchive needs it for my public repo
<Yagisan> build log hasn't arrived yet
<slomo> hm i don't know whether it doesn't hurt ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: found it http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections perfectly compliant
<Yagisan> thanks slomo, there a a lot of signness related errors that only happen on ppc
<slomo> np... will you try to fix it for amd64 and ppc? or only report these to upstream?
<Yagisan> I will a) report to upstream, and b) see if I can fix anything
<Yagisan> I'm surprised it even works on macs at all
<remik> exit
<remik> ops
<remik> sorry
<remik> bye
<Yagisan> goodnight all
<siretart> wb \sh
<siretart> \sh: gajim? ;)
<\sh> siretart: uploaded but in NEW
<siretart> oh. great
<siretart> will make a comment and archive it
<siretart> done
<\sh> thx
* siretart wonders if he should upload his shiny lyx package. it fixes an UnmetDep...
<\sh> http://wiki.debian.net/?EtchSlang2upgrade and cairo2 trans are now a prio 1
<tvo> \sh: i've a debdiff for kio-locate now, do you still want to test?
<siretart> hm. since it improves the status quo, and the next debian upload will have higher version number.. I'd say yes
<siretart> WAAAAAH
<siretart> I accidentally killed my lyx package just before my backup :(
<siretart> puh. it still is in the pbuilder cache..
<slomo> \sh: packages needing slang transition are the ones listed by apt-cache rdepends slang1*?
<\sh> slomo: i think so..the list is also on debian wiki
<slomo> \sh: is most of the stuff just a rebuild or is more work needed? if more work is needed i'll look at them after wxwidgets2.6 (infinity said i should fix it)... when they're just rebuilds i'll wait for elmo ;)
<\sh> slomo: check the wiki debian page...there are some hints
<slomo> \sh: ok, thanks...
<mbreit> i try to fix torcs in breezy, but ftbfs... the new upstream version (already in sid) fixes that... is that enougth to break UVF/FF?
<siretart> mbreit: how many reverse dependency does torcs have?
<mbreit> siretart: only torcs-data*
<siretart> mbreit: then go on and request a sync ;)
<mbreit> siretart: i will first test if it requieres any merge (had -ubuntu2 before)
<siretart> mbreit: yes, do that
<slomo> mbreit: torcs was fixed a few seconds ago by infinity
<mbreit> lol
<slomo> at least he uploaded a new version
<mbreit> 1.2.3?
<slomo> torcs (1.2.2-5ubuntu3) breezy; urgency=low
<\sh> siretart: gajim hit the buildds
<siretart> w000h0
<\sh> ok..now for the tobacco
<slomo> \sh: for slang2 transition we have to create our own package list it seems... all the stuff from the debian list i was looking at already uses slang2 ;)
<siretart> \sh: which packages are affected by libcairo1?
<slomo> siretart: apt-cache rdepends libcairo1
<ogra> siretart, apt-cache rdepends libcairo1 ?
<siretart> ah, thanks.
<siretart> why did grep-dctrl fail for me.. hmm. anyway..
<ogra> a little more then 60
* ogra gesses the xfce4 stuff is crimsun/janimo land
<ogra> and you can ignore the main stuff too
<slomo> and for slang transition it's 4 packages ;)
* siretart looks at grip
<mbreit> slomo: i thinks that torcs will ftbfs on amd64...
<tseng> i cant believe how close we are
<siretart> breezy will be a great release
<slomo> ok, i can take the complete slang stuff when noone else wants it... it's just 3 packages, 1 is obsolete
<\sh> ogra: main is transitioned
<ogra> yup
<ogra> <ogra> and you can ignore the main stuff too
<\sh> slomo: 30 packages
<slomo> \sh: where do you find this 30 packages?
<\sh> apt-cache rdepends slang1
<slomo> hmm... weird... mine seems broken when i want rdepends for more than one package
<slomo> \sh: ok, shall i create a wikipage with all the packages?
<\sh> slomo: do :)
<slomo> MOTUSlang2Transition?
<\sh> ah
<\sh> libsdl is the master
<slomo> the master?
<\sh> ok
<\sh> many packages are depending on libsdl1.2
<\sh> libsdl1.2 is depending on aalib
<\sh> and aalib i just grab the source
<siretart> \sh: aalib is now libaa
<\sh> there is libslang2-dev
<\sh> grmpf
<slomo> libaa1
<\sh> so we have to rewrite all the stuff
<slomo> but libaa1 already builds against slang2
<\sh> libslang2 and libslang2 as well
<\sh> libslang2 and libslang2-dev as well
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> so i think most of it will be a rebuild...or it's written on the debian wiki package
<\sh> ok..i'm changing laptops...now...brb
<slomo> hmm... but where did you find libsdl1.2 depending on slang1? it is build against slang2 here
<slomo> ok, look here for all packages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUSlang2Transition
<slomo> this is not just slang1 but also slang1{a-utf8,-pic,-utf8,-utf8-pic}
<\sh> e
<\sh> re
<slomo> wb
* dredg sighs
<dredg> it's not often i actually install ubuntu
<dredg> but every time i do, i'm completely blown away by how much effort it doesn't take
<lathiat> tseng: ping
<herve> hello
<Mitario> ha everyone
<slomo> hi Mitario
<tvo> \sh: the problem I had with pbuilder appears to be a bug in dpkg-source, it's supposed to be fixed in 1.13.11 (and 1.13.10 is in breezy :-( )
<\sh> tvo: which one?
<tvo> \sh: 318473
<tvo> ( http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-dpkg-bugs@lists.debian.org/msg00586.html )
<\sh> ah ok..this diff stuff
<\sh> ask on ubuntu-devel if someone can sync
<tvo> ok
<\sh> or if it's not against the FF
<\sh> siretart: gajim compiled on all 3 archs :)
<tseng> lathiat: pong
<lathiat> tseng: nevermind, i was going to ask if i could get access to an amd64 machine but realised i already had access to one
<tseng> i dont even own one
<tseng> i have some at work
<\sh> ravel
<tseng> which are being shipped out
<ogra> tseng, get one, to help lathiat !
<tseng> they are too much $
<tseng> i dont need another pc
<ogra> dont be so selfish, sell your hifi to help him out !
<ogra> *g*
<chillywilly> where is the maildirmake command?
<tseng> mkdir .maildir/{cur,new,tmp} -p
<tseng> right there ^
<chillywilly> heh
<mbreit> chillywilly: there was a command like that in one qmail package.... at least on debian ;)
<Mithrandir> mbreit: maildrop has one
<chillywilly> that's probably the one I was using
<slomo> someone wants to upload this: http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/xawtv_3.94-1ubuntu3.debdiff ?
<crimsun> slomo: from ubuntu4?
<crimsun> (wxwidgets2.6)
<slomo> crimsun: has already solved ;) i don't know why i thought you were looking at wxwidgets... it was infinity
<crimsun> slomo: ok
<slomo> crimsun: and a fixed version was already uploaded a few minutes ago if you're interested ;)
<crimsun> slomo: yes, I see on breezy-changes :)
<Mitario> \sh, already here :D
<\sh> Mitario: very good...tomorrow 20:00 UTC motu meeting :) you're welcome :)
<Mitario> sure, Will do :)
<slomo> congrats Mitario :)
<\sh> Mitario: good to have u with us
<Mitario> thanks guys :)
<Mitario> hope get some work done ASAP
<Mitario> actually I jsut packaged mixxx and pida
<\sh> Mitario: check this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting
<slomo> \sh: can you upload http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/xawtv_3.94-1ubuntu3.debdiff when you have some time? :)
<Mitario> \sh, reading
<\sh> slomo: sure...tomorrow morning ping me again :)
<Mitario> \sh, right, no new packages :) anyways i'll see what I can do after the meeting tomorrow
<Mitario> \sh, probably wil give me some inspiration
<slomo> \sh: ok, when i don't find someone else before :P
<\sh> Mitario: most of the work is "working on already existant packages" so...we will touch many maaany packages ;)
<Mitario> heh ok :)
<Mitario> anyways, happy to be of service in the future :)
<crimsun> welcome aboard, Mitario
<Mitario> crimsun, thanks
<ajmitch> morning
<herve> hello ajmitch
<crimsun> re ajmitch
<ogra_> comadreja, we talk about you in -meeting...
<ogra_> comadreja, arent you a MOTU already ?
<crimsun> he's listed as one on wiki/MOTU
<ogra_> crimsun, hmm, am i blind  ? i dont see him
<crimsun> ogra_: JorgeDaza?
<\sh> it's comadreja
<\sh> he is approved
<ogra_> err, i thought you talk about bddeboian
<crimsun> sorry, I was answering your question about comadreja
<ogra_> heh, yes, now i get it
<crimsun> excellent, wxwidgets2.6 built
<\sh> slomo: u rock dude
<slomo> \sh: thanks :) i just took a patch from the debian bts... xawtv was more difficult to fix ;)
<crimsun> congrats, mbreit
<mbreit> crimsun: thanks!
<sistpoty> congrats, mbreit
<mbreit> thanks siretart
<mbreit> bah... sisterpoty even ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> congrats mbreit :)
<mbreit> hehe.. thanks ;)
<\sh> mbreit: welcome, 2nd time :)
<mbreit> \sh: thanks.... even if i am not a member yet ;)
<\sh> mbreit: motu includes membership...i think
<mbreit> \sh: but I don't have the cc approval?
<mbreit> \sh: except of sabdfl's vote
<ogra_> mbreit, as mdz said, it works without
<ajmitch> mbreit: welcome, anyway ;)
<ogra_> youre a full MOTU
<mbreit> yay ;) thanks ;)
<\sh> sign your coc via launchpad
<mbreit> but that does not include upload rights, does it?
<\sh> read wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<mbreit> \sh: i have already done thank (sign coc on launchpad)
<\sh> send your key to the mentioned addresses
<slomo> \sh: nope... that hasn't worked for me
<\sh> slomo: what? signing coc?
<slomo> uploading it to launchpad... mako wanted it via mail
<\sh> but now it's working i think
<slomo> hm ok... well, mbreit? just do both ;)
<ogra_> guys, i'll add aq item to themeeting agenda now, please make sure it stays the last, because its a kind of after meeting workshop/recital (i'll note it aside)
<mbreit> i will have a short break first ;) then i will send some emails ;))
* ajmitch sees ogra_'s controversial 'no more NEW packages' ;)
<slomo> no more NEW packages?!
<ogra_> slomo, we broke every freeze already...
<ajmitch> to be discussed tomorrow
<Nafallo> hmm, maybe we should rebuild UniverseUnmetDeps?
<ajmitch> good idea
<Nafallo> kismet is not there, but I believe it (and others) depend on libdps1 ;-)
<ogra_> ajmitch, there is not much to discuss, we *broke* every freeze there are many people not happy about it
<ajmitch> ogra_: and I thought we still were allowed new packages in
<slomo> ogra_: hm ok... so maybe starting with tomorrow there will be no NEW packages?
<\sh> baz? thats the python VCS?
<slomo> hmm... are there 3 motu who want to look at gstreamer-plugins-multiverse? ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: no, bzr is the python one
<\sh> so baz is the other way
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> ok...remembered some words of marks speech at debconf ,-)
<ajmitch> baz = bazaar, bzr = bazaar-ng, to be called bazaar 2.0 :)
<chillywilly> I hate this place
<cevizoglu> chillywilly: what place?
<ajmitch> ogra_: so how does apt-get.org fit in with your no NEW Packages?
<\sh> this is special
<ajmitch> & the packages currently on REVU?
<\sh> it was/is a goal
<\sh> i think
<ajmitch> a number of them are crap, to say the least :)
<Nafallo> slomo: done ;-)
<\sh> and dholbach has some scripts at hand to do it all automatically...
<ajmitch> dholbach doesn't have scripts to review them all
<ajmitch> just to grab & build
<slomo> Nafallo: thanks :) now only 2 are missing... mbreit? ;)
<ajmitch> they make somewhat of a joke of our 3 MOTU signoff on REVU :)
<\sh> ajmitch: thats what we will discuss tomorrow how its gonna work...
<ajmitch> I know..
<shawarma> Can anyone reproduce this: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1717  ?
<shawarma> It works for me, so I'm inclined to close it.
<ogra> AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<ogra> sorry...
<ogra> my line is crappy
<ogra> \sh, bazaar is the version control used all over the place in ubuntu
<lathiat> ogra: hi!
<ogra> and its developed by canonical
* ajmitch must leave for work..
<ogra> ;)
<ajmitch> bbiab
<mbreit> slomo: i would review that, but i need siretart to give me review rights first ;)
<ogra> hey lathiat
<lathiat> man so many bug fixes in avahi 0.2
<lathiat> and i'd just like to say
<lathiat> that dbus is silly
<ajmitch> bah
<lathiat> thank you all
<lathiat> ajmitch: avahi 0.2 -> tomorrow
<ajmitch> ogra_: would avahi be an exception to your NEW policy? ;)
* ajmitch will get away to work eventually.. cursed irc
<chillywilly> yea right
<ogra> ajmitch, yes
<ogra> ajmitch, since its already ready...
<ogra> ajmitch, what annoys me is something like dolbach putting "REVIEWING, our first priority" in the topic if we dont even have 50% of universe working...
<ajmitch> right
<ogra> our first prio should be to have universe in shape for the release, and i dont see that happen at all
<ajmitch> I understand that we *have* to get more or universe ready
<shawarma> quick question: Can I somehow make Malone only show Universe bugs?
<ajmitch> which is why I asked what we have to target
<ajmitch> I suspect there's MOTUGLUTransition work there as well
<ogra> its nice if people package NEW stuff, i really appreciate it... but its nt our main target... there wont be changes to a broken universe once we released.... and you cantt backport the whole world
<ajmitch> now really, I'll be back in ~15min ;)
<ogra> shawarma, maolne shouldnt show anything else
<sistpoty> mbreit: i just updated your revu-entry, you should be able to review now ;)
<ogra> shawarma, since its the universe bugtracker... main bugs go to bugzilla ;)
<shawarma> ogra: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1593  https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/746 and https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/407 are all main related stuff, are they not?
<mbreit> sistpoty: thanks!
<sistpoty> mbreit: you better check it, if it works ;)
<shawarma> ogra: Anyhow... If I really want to make myself useful in fixing universe stuff in time for the release, is starting from the top in the Malone bug list the way to go? Or what would you rather want me to do?
<ogra> shawarma, that would be one way to contribute... we also have a lot of lists for the transition work...
<\sh> ok....guys...rushing into bed...tomorrow at 400 UTC I have a change request
<shawarma> ogra: And by the way: Those three bugs are within the 5 topmost bugs  in the default view.. That kind of statistic kind of made me suspect that all breezy bugs were moving to Malone or something.
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
<ogra> shawarma, ^^^ there are links to some of the lists... unmet deps is a easy entry point for example
<\sh> g'night
<ogra> shawarma, i'm just commenting the bugs, thanks for pointing that out
<mbreit> by the way: could somebody please review my ickle fix?
<shawarma> ogra: No problem.
<ogra> :)
<shawarma> ogra: any time, even. :-)
<ogra> night \sh_away
<Nafallo> ogra: could you check my kazehakase upload and comment on REVU?
<ogra> Nafallo, i dont even have review rights...
<ogra> s/review/comment/
<slomo> ogra: siretart has made you a account with all rights afaik
<ogra> and i'm about to crash... (working here since 18h)
<Nafallo> hmm, oki. you could comment here. I'm just after the right solution to fix a bug :-).
<Nafallo> k
<ogra> leave me a little rest, i'll look at it later today
<Nafallo> ogra: thanx :-9
<Nafallo> :-)
* ogra has really hurting wrists...
<Nafallo> ogra: apt-get install workrave if not installed already ;-)
<ogra> that blocks my workflow...
<Nafallo> workflow or wrists :-P
<ogra> i tried several times
<ogra> heh, yes
<ogra> i normally take the wrist
<lathiat> is it bad if I can sit in front of my computer workign for 12 hours straight and NOT get sore wrists, eyes or otherwise?
<lathiat> .. and do this day after day? :)
<ajmitch> back
<ogra> lathiat, do this 5 years in a row... 6 days a week and tell us about
* ajmitch had really sore wrists after the weekend, but that was due to archery, not computer use :)
<lathiat> i guess up until last year i was going to school, but i took my laptop to school and often spent at least say.. 8 hours a day? :)
<lathiat> it'l probabaly start biting me soon enough
<ogra> lathiat, how old are you ?
<ajmitch> he's a young'un :)
<ajmitch> 18 or so, right?
<ogra> lathiat, lets have this conversation again if youre over 30 and did this for some years... ;)
<Nafallo> lathiat: you have it coming then ;-)
<Nafallo> ey! we should add workrave as a req for MOTUness :-)
<cevizoglu> lathiat: no, it's normal... I've gotten away with that for the last 10 years  :)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: why? :)
<ogra> Nafallo, put it on the agenda if you think its needed ;)
<cevizoglu> lathiat: although I have reverted to black backgrounds only because bright white is starting to hurt my eyes
* sistpoty has learned to ignore the pain
<sistpoty> ;)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: people are hurting themselves otherwise, and blame ubuntu ;-)
<ogra> cevizoglu, thats he first step... come back if you have blind spots in your view :)
<lathiat> yes, 17
<lathiat> heh
<lathiat> fairly sure i've been glued to my computer for the last 4 at least
<Nafallo> ogra: hehe, not really. it's better we tip each other for it :-)
<ogra> sistpoty, i did that too... but i'm 35 nw and since about a year i recgnize the regression in my bones and eyes
<cevizoglu> ogra: sounds scary.  did this happen to you?
<Mitario> lathiat, what's your birthday? :)
<lathiat> Mitario: nov 6t
<ajmitch> lathiat: I've been going for a few years now, it'll catch up with me later ;)
<lathiat> *6
<lathiat> ajmitch: heh
<ogra> cevizoglu, sometimes it does after a long hacking naight
<Mitario> wohoo! still the youngest ;-)
<sistpoty> ogra: phew... then i have 8 years to go
<lathiat> yay another avahi bug bites the dust
* ajmitch feels old now
* cevizoglu is 30
<tseng> lathiat++
<lathiat> yay "dbus is stupid, lets work aroudn it" bugs
<shawarma> Is it possible to just have a package rebuilt? Or does that happen automatically when one of its depending packages changes?
<Mitario> allright off to bed, school tomorrow, see you guys at the meeting!
<sistpoty> gn8 Mitario
<sistpoty> ok, i think i'm off to bed, too... gn8 folks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-21
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you're up far too early
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm at uni, too
* Hobbsee notes that the "i wonder if this way to uni will be quicker" way usually *isnt*
<Hobbsee> yay for 20 min drives that take 40.
<ajmitch> wonderful
<LaserJock> wahoo, I've got -1% battery left :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hah!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: find a powerpoint?
<LaserJock> hm?
<Hobbsee> if you've got -1% battery left?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: plug your laptop in
<LaserJock> it is
<LaserJock> it hibernated
<LaserJock> and now it says fully charged
<LaserJock> weird
<bluefoxicy> I still don't have DMA... does anyone else not have DMA?
<bluefoxicy> erf.
* bluefoxicy -> #-devel
<DarkMageZ> hmm anyone got any idea on this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21246 i had permissions set to 777 and it still happened :(
<TLE> Hi, I'm tring to patch metacity following the guidelines in MOTU School https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources. But the debian/rules file in metacity has no patch section, it does however include this file /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk which have "post-patches, apply-patches and debian/stamp-patched" sections, which one of these should I use instead ?
<ajmitch> TLE: you don't need to modify debian/rules since it's alreayd using a patch system
<TLE> ok, but then, can I apply them manually or should I use one of the patch managing tools ?
<ajmitch> you can use cdbs-edit-patch for creating it
<TLE> thanks
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<ajmitch> back later :)
<LaserJock> hi \sh
<\sh> oh wow...I need to get up in one hour...
<zul_> hey/bye ajmitch
<hub> hey \sh
<\sh> moins hub, how's life?
<hub> \sh: it is ok
<hub> could be better
<\sh> hub: agreed :)
<fbond> bddebian, hi
<fbond> bddebian: I'm using dh_installdebconf, shouldn't that take care of any debconf-related stuff?  It was before...
<TLE> Does any of you have time for a newbie source code patching question?
<bddebian> TLE: Ask away, we'll give it a shot
<bddebian> fbond: It should but lintian is still complaining :-(
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte
<fbond> bddebian, got it sorted: I was running dh_installdebconf after dh_installdeb
<hub> is there a way to tell pbuilder to grab packages without setting up an apt repository?
<welshbyte> ello bddebian
<bddebian> fbond: Ah, nice
<fbond> hub: don't think so, although setting up a simple local repo will only take you ... an hour or two
<bddebian> hub: ?
<fbond> unless you've done it before
<bddebian> Oh
<hub> fbond: an hour or two. gotcha
<fbond> :)
<fbond> maybe not, if you read fast
<hub> bddebian: yeah, I'm packaging a package that needs a library I have packaged but that is not yet in the archive
<bddebian> hub: Aye, sorry, I misunderstood you at first :)
<hub> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2905 <- that one I need to provide
<fbond> bddebian, still one issue that i haven't managed to dodge: lintian complains about no-debconf-config
<fbond> i'm not sure what a debconf config would contain, or the name of the file that would contain it...
<bddebian> fbond: Hmm.  I'm not fluent at all in debconf stuff :-(
<fbond> yeah, I've never messed with it before either...
<fbond> ahh...
<bddebian> Ack, diacanvas2 is broken
<fbond> bddebian, ok, all debconf issues should be sorted now, sorry about that
<fbond|away> I'll check back in at revu tomorrow
<fbond|away> good night
<fbond|away> :)
<TLE> ok. I'm trying to create a true patch for metacity using cdbs-edit-patch. When I run it with "cdbs-edit-patch 020-twinview-modification.patch" it completes alright, and I get to the edit subshell, but it also gives this error "make[1] : *** No rule to create target 'distclean'." (Maybe not exact wording I'm translating it from Danish). Is that something I should worry about and if so, do you any idea of what the problem is ?
<bddebian> fbond|away: Don't be sorry, there is a lot I don't know man :)
<Burgundavia> hub: this dcraw upload got anything new and interesting?
<hub> yeah
<hub> -e to get the previews
<hub> digikam 0.9 needs it
<hub> and more camera supporteds
<Burgundavia> hub: can you add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue11 under new apps in edgy?
<hub> Burgundavia: they are updated
<hub> ufraw too
<Burgundavia> hub: can you add a little section on photo stuff?
<hub> yeah
<hub> hugin is still in the queue. when it goes thru it will be a new app
<Burgundavia> very cool
<bddebian> Hmm, it appears that diacanvas2 might not have been moved to the new policy properly
<bddebian> TLE[Sleeping] : Crap, sorry, I missed your question :-(
<TLE[Sleeping] > I'm still here
<bddebian> TLE[Sleeping] : Don't worry about that error, just make your changes and then exit
<TLE[Sleeping] > bddebian: Ok great. Planning to provide that patch in a howto, so I'd just like be sure sure that everything is as it is supposed to be. Thanks
<bddebian> Why would this be in python-diacanvas2.files:  usr/lib/python2.2 ?
<crimsun> a merge? because it was never updated?
<bddebian> crimsun: This is a sync from Debian afaict
<crimsun> then it just wasn't updated
<bddebian> The Debian maintainer moved it to python-support but it's broken
<crimsun> easily fixed, debdiffed, and gotten on with life.
<bddebian> Should it be /usr/lib/python-support ?
<crimsun> I wouldn't even use .files
<bddebian> aye
<bddebian> Man this thing is all broken
<bddebian> Ahhhh MAXPATHLEN
<bddebian> whoops, wrong chan, sorry :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: Still around?
<crimsun> sort of. I'm meeting with the chair atm.
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> crimsun: Well if you get a sec and don't mind, could you look at:  http://pastebin.us/3488
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee
<joejaxx> good cross platform svn ide client ? anyone know of one?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ! :)
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: uwn has very little KDE/Kubuntu content. Care to provide some for next week?
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi everyone else
<Hobbsee> hi Burgundavia, joejaxx
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: define "next week" - how many days?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: this saturday, midnight Pacific time is your deadline
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: cool.  hopefully we'll have amarok 1.4.2 by then, depending on mdz, and when they actually release the thing
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you make my heart sing
<joejaxx> does anyone here work with svn?
<bddebian> Damn I hate days where nothing is going my way :-(
<joejaxx> hmm maybe not lol
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: some, what is the issue?
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: i was wondering what a good cross platform svn ide was
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: you asking me about Windows and OS X? sorry, canna help you
<Burgundavia> I use gedit
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: for svn?
<joejaxx> they have a plugin for it?
<Burgundavia> no, I just use the command line
<hub> joejaxx: svn
<hub> joejaxx: the command line tool
<joejaxx> hub: cross platform :\
<hub> again
<hub> svn in command line
<hub> works the same EVERYWHERE
<joejaxx> hub even on windows?
<hub> as far as I know
<hub> I don't use windows
<hub> so I don't care
<Burgundavia> hub: does it need cygwin?
<hub> Burgundavia: don't ask too many questions
<hub> Burgundavia: again: I don't do Windows
<hub> I just know that it works
<hub> worst case scenario just use tortoiseSVN
<Burgundavia> true, tortiose is quite nice
<hub> doesn't emacs have a svn mode?
<bddebian> Any python experts awake?
<Burgundavia> bddebian: no, but I watched Snakes on a Plane last night
<bddebian> Heh.  Was it any good?
<Burgundavia> very very bad. I killed myself laughing
<bddebian> heh, I expected as much :-)
<joejaxx> it was bad?
<Burgundavia> truly awful. campy b-movie. That is what made it funny
<AnAnt_> lionelp: you awake ?
<crimsun> bddebian: looks like a pygobject bug anyhow.
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Hmm, it seems to be there though..
<bddebian> root@bdubuntu1:/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/gtk-2.0# grep -r write_source *
<bddebian> dsextras.py:        from codegen import register_types, write_source, FileOutput
<bddebian> dsextras.py:        write_source(dp,
<bddebian> Binary file dsextras.pyc matches
<bddebian> Unless pygtk itself is broken
<crimsun> bddebian: it would be a pygobject bug.
<bddebian> Is there a way to run python setup.py interactively so I can see what it's doing?  It seems to work from the command line
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Arbiter> yawn
<Arbiter> hi folks
<Arbiter> heya Hobbsee
<Arbiter> :)
<Hobbsee> hey Arbiter
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: would you review kdocker? :D
<Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2907 :D
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: wasnt that already in the archives?  i thought it got advocated ages ago?
<Arbiter> no... there was a building problem with updated edgy packages
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: bddebian replied to it again
* Hobbsee wonders if it's sitting somewhere in NEW
<Arbiter> no
<Arbiter> it didn't hit the archives :D
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: it takes a while for packages to get thru NEW
<Arbiter> i've alredy looked for it in NEW queue
<Arbiter> and it's not in NEW queue :P
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Arbiter> ;)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: does it happen to need dh_iconcache, btw?
<Arbiter> hm...
* Hobbsee doesnt know how to find out
<Arbiter> why?
<Arbiter> (it needs dh_iconcache)
<Hobbsee> it does?
<Hobbsee> hmm, it doesnt seem to install files to those directories
<Hobbsee> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00578.html
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: i think it's not needed (dh_iconcache)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: cool, ok
<unix_infidel> hey guys, quick question, after upgrading and doing a fresh install to dapper i've noticed that when after i've installed vim-gnome vim-gtk, there are no options for colorscheme in the menu and appending the gvimrc file correctly displays an error.
<unix_infidel> did the maintainers take out that option from the package.
<unix_infidel> (it was available in breezy)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: looks good to me.   test building
<unix_infidel> erm, anyone?
<Fujitsu> What do you wish to know?
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: alredy tested with an updated pbuilder
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: i always test my packages with pbuilder
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: whether the maintainers took out colorscheme with the new vim packages.
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: cool.  but i'm paranoid :)
<Arbiter> my old pbuilder built the package with no problems
<Arbiter> two days ago i try to build the package with an updated pbuilder and... BOOOM
<Arbiter> build errors :D
<Arbiter> (that i never had before :P)
<Fujitsu> Have you checked the changelog, unix_infidel?
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: for the package for or the vim software?
<Fujitsu> The package.
<unix_infidel> let me give it a gander
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp kdocker_1.3-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp kdocker_1.3.orig.tar.gz: done.
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp kdocker_1.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz: done.
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp kdocker_1.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: ^
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: nothing of significance there.
<Fujitsu> unix_infidel, you sure it wasn't removed from upstream?
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: huh?
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: it mentions that "    + 6.1.065: VMS: The colorscheme, keymap and compiler menus are not
<unix_infidel>       filled in.
<Arbiter> ahhh understood :D
<unix_infidel> which seems as if they mean to say that the menu's are not aviailable, but the option in the gvimrc should be valid no?
<Fujitsu> unix_infidel, probably.
<Fujitsu> I really don't know.
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: means that it's been uploaded to the archives
<unix_infidel> argh!
<unix_infidel> :(
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: yup :)
<Arbiter> thanks Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: not a problem
<Arbiter> ah Hobbsee...
* Hobbsee waits for mail
<Arbiter> would you sponsor me for tomorrow's CC? :D
<Arbiter> (i wanna apply for membership ;) )
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: is it at 6am?
<Arbiter> 6pm here :D
<Hobbsee> 2000UTC?
* Hobbsee cant sponsor anything.
* Hobbsee could cheer.
<Arbiter> yup
<bluefoxicy> has anyone figured out what xchat-gnome does with the paste buffer?
<bluefoxicy> it seems to have ADHD
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: but not at 2am
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: awww no problem then :D
<unix_infidel> anyone know who the maintainer(s) for the vim packages are?
<Arbiter> i'll ask Gloubiboulga when he connects :)
<Fujitsu> unix_infidel, apt-cache show vim
<unix_infidel> erm, nvm.
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: kdocker is in NEW queue :) thanks again
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: yay :)
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: yea, maybe the better question is if ANYONE of them in here.
* Hobbsee just got mailed about that
<Fujitsu> unix_infidel, doubtful, this isn't a Debian channel.
<unix_infidel> Fujitsu: hrm.  Thanks.
<unix_infidel> I'll ask in #debian then, thanks a lot man.
<unix_infidel> appreciate it.
<Fujitsu> No problem, I hope you have some luck.
<ttyfscker> is there anyone in here that has any authority over this gnomefreak guy?
<Hobbsee> ttyfscker: any of the ops, see #ubuntu-ops
<ttyfscker> Hobbsee:: thanks
* Yagisan wonders if bluefoxicy actually read my email before hitting reply.
<bluefoxicy> Yagisan:  which
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, u-d where you tell me you don't care about k8
<bluefoxicy> Jones?
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, that's great, but not what I asked
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, that's me. btw, no need to CC in future - I've been here a long time ;)
<bluefoxicy> yeah, K8 kernels generally break things, or don't use K8 instructions (the k8 doesn't bring any added insns in 32-bit mode)
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, I'm talking about the *hardware* I have to test
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> I thought you meant K7/K8 kernels on K7/K8 boxes
<bluefoxicy> not i686 on K8
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, I doubt there is much difference, but, I'd rather not see a decision based on 2 Intel boxes that may or may not be typical
<bluefoxicy> Yagisan:  nods.  Do you know if they're assulting the kernel or if they're testing real-world user programs?
<bluefoxicy> overall the kernel accounts for 18% of CPU time
<bluefoxicy> (including syscalls, scheduling, mm, etc-- anything in kernel mode)
<bluefoxicy> so if they're assulting the kernel, multiply the numbers by 0.18 to get the real world impact.  :)
<bluefoxicy> if they're relying on a "typical program" then all bets are off; there's no telling how much time it spends in the kernel versus how much time it spends in userspace
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy, I suspect a kernel assult, but, I need a monkeys guide to reproduce it. I'm a monkey
<bluefoxicy> I would imagine this would average 18%, but I don't have a standard deviation ;)
<bluefoxicy> Yagisan:  nods
<Yagisan> my real worls apps hardly match a standard desktop though
* Yagisan needs to see a client now. I'll need to finish this chat later bluefoxicy 
<bluefoxicy> i need to sleep now
<bluefoxicy> it's 3am
<bluefoxicy> keep in mind I am  mostly full of conjecture, some of which is based on numbers I've measured
<bluefoxicy> (for example I've used a full oprofile of my system to find out PIC vs main executable vs kernel CPU time)
<Fujitsu> Any MOTUs here that can check/upload 6 merges for me?
* Hobbsee isnt here
<Fujitsu> Aha
* ajmitch is heading out, will be back in ~30-40 minutes
<StevenK> I'm here, but I don't have the time at the moment.
<ajmitch> if you want, I can look later
<Fujitsu> OK, they're at http://people.ubuntu.com.au/~fujitsu/merges/
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> ask me later when I'm back :)
<Fujitsu> OK, I shall.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU world
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
<Goshawk> ji
<Goshawk> hi
<Plug> If VISUAL and EDITOR are both set to vim, why does dch run nano?
<imbrandon> Plug: you can change it via update-alteritives but i think it should hounor EDITOR
<Plug> yeah, I just thought of that
<Plug> it runs 'sensible-editor'
<imbrandon> sudo update-alternatives --config editor
<imbrandon> ;)
<Plug> yay
<Plug> cheers
<ajmitch> evening Plug
<Plug> hi
* Plug fixes his lintian and a couple of package bugs and tries again on the nm-pptp
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> Plug: fixed the version?
<Plug> yeah
<imbrandon>  /stats p
<imbrandon> erm
<Fujitsu> Are you back, ajmitch?
<ajmitch> sort of
<Fujitsu> ie. no.
<ajmitch> ie I have food now & am eating it :)
* Nafallo upgrades ajmitch to support multitasking ;-)
* Mithrandir tickles Nafallo 
<Fujitsu> Good evening, Mithrandir.
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: yay! you're alive :-)
<Mithrandir> hiya Fujitsu
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: how are you? except you should have sucky connection atm :-P
<Mithrandir> Nafallo: yeah, been on vacation.
<Mithrandir> the connection is quite sucky.
<Fujitsu> :(
<Fujitsu> Hey, mine is 28.8kbps, but stable.
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> mine is stable at 10240/1024kbps ;-)
<Fujitsu> 1024/1024, or 10240/1024?
<imbrandon> mine is a nice stable 8192/1024kbps ;)
<Mithrandir> we're sharing a wireless 2Mbit here.
<imbrandon> Mithrandir: better than dialup i guess ;)
<Plug> When should you have an orig.tar.gz ?
<imbrandon> Plug: for every package
<Nafallo> 10/1Mbit
<Nafallo> Mithrandir: huga! you should check out the FON maps for something faster wireless then. or atleast stable :-).
<Plug> ajmitch: take that!
<Plug> (if REVU updates)
<Plug> REVU never emailled me either, if anyone can help with that
<Plug> right
<Plug> who wants to review my package! :)
<Nafallo> Plug: ajmitch :-)
<Fujitsu> Any MOTUs suitable for checking/uploading merges around?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: i'm busy atm but in an about 2 hours i can spend some time on it if you give me a url or shoot me an email
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: also do you know about the LP universe sponsors team ? find the bug report ( or file one ) and attcahe the debdiff then subscribe ( not assign ) the team
<imbrandon> that way MOTU's can get to it when they have time if you are not on irc or if they dont come onto irc
<Fujitsu> I'd seen the email on that, yes.
<Fujitsu> True.
<Fujitsu> I'll do that, I think.
* Plug slaps ajmitch 
<imbrandon> ;)
<Fujitsu> debdiff between Debian current and the new Ubuntu one?
<imbrandon> between ubuntu current and the new one
<imbrandon> since thats what will be uploaded
<Fujitsu> Ah, OK.
<Fujitsu> OK.
<imbrandon> i would mention the url to the MoM report also for merges
<Fujitsu> Shall do.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :)
<Nafallo> siretart: ping
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> the ubuntu branch of pbuilder is out of date :-P
* imbrandon does a little dance , sings a little song ..... woot
* Fujitsu questions imbrandon's thinking patterns.
<imbrandon> heh
<welshbyte> good afternoon
<zul> morning
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Nafallo> bddebian: morning
<bddebian> Hi Nafallo
<bddebian> crimsun: You actually here?
<crimsun> bddebian: I won't be, no. I can check back in 4 hours after today's lectures.
<bddebian> crimsun: NP, thx
<Goshawk> hi, howto obtain the REVU password? the lostpw.py script seems to be bugged
<Nafallo> hehe
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<Nafallo> rothera should be unavailable for some hours now I guess ;-)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: arent you on holidays?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: i'm back again
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: look at his cloak to know where he is ;-)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: on the distro sprint
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> dholbach: nice :)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: true that
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> dholbach: so is this the distro sprint where you sprint to get to the beer?
<Nafallo> haha
<dholbach> to get to the beer?
<tseng> Hobbsee: have you been to a conference?
<Hobbsee> s/beer/whatever alcoholic beverage you prefer/
<tseng> Hobbsee: you don't get to any beer until after 10pm
<Hobbsee> tseng: no.  if i had, i suspect you would have remembered me.
<tseng> oh, I am not a regular attendee
* Hobbsee is one of those strange green aliens.
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> true - but you would likely recognise a weird alien face from photos of them
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir and stomps on his feet
<tseng> oh
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how'd the wedding go?
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: excellent.  Everything went smoothly and just as planned.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yay :)
<azeem> w34
<azeem> eh.
* bddebian sighs
<hub> *sigh*
<hub> what is upstream tarball has CVS files?
<Nafallo> hub: then bug the hell out of them :-)
<azeem> hub: if you want, you can repackage it, but using the prestine upstream tarball might outweigh having those files in it
<hub> azeem: I already have to bz2 -> gz
<azeem> ah, ok
<azeem> (Ubuntu supports bz2 I think)
<hub> but I do that with a bzcat | gzip -9c
<hub> azeem: Debian does not
<azeem> yeah
<hub> no biggie
<hub> my biggest problem is to actually build the thing
<hub> I don;t have enough RAM to *build*
<Hobbsee> hub: ssh to someone else's machine that *does*
<hub> Hobbsee: easier to say than to do
<hub> Hobbsee: the only machines I have with 1gb are:
<Hobbsee> hub: true
<hub> 1/ the work laptop: runs Xandros
<Mithrandir> or use swap.
<hub> 2/ the MacMini: runs MacOS X
<hub> Mithrandir: yeah right, that is actually what happens
<azeem> hub: you could build in a chroot on your xandros box
<Mithrandir> hub: use a chroot on the xandros box?
<hub> Mithrandir: gcc does not like that
<hub> azeem: I need ot deboostrap it
<hub> azeem: even the work desktop only have 512MB
<hub> I have one runnin Edgy
<hub> amd64
<Mithrandir> 512 MB of memory.  Those were the days.
<hub> Mithrandir: 4 of the source files need over 300MB just for gcc
<hub> don't try that swapping
<hub> fsck
<hub> I have to get ubuntu debootstrap script?
<azeem> probably
<hub> *sigh*
<hub> and I guess Debian will never include them in the upstream deboostrap
<azeem> hub: well, it has warty and hoary
<azeem> debootstrap in Debian hasn't been updated for half a year or so
<azeem> actually, there's breezy as well, my bad
<hub> azeem: not the one from sarge
<hub> :-/
<azeem> sure :)
<azeem> Ubuntu almost didn't exist back then
<hub> it did
<azeem> right, but debootstrap was in some sort of maintenance mode
<hub> like the whole debian
<engla> so this is a question, if I want to package applications for ubuntu, do I sign up for long-term maintainership?
<LaserJock> not really
<LaserJock> we have a team maintainership style in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but we would rather people hang around as much as they can :-)
<engla> I'd like to try to package two apps for ubuntu. One I myself wrote and one 3rd party I like
<engla> I've already made buildpackage debs, the only thing I don't know how to handle is pbuilder
<bddebian> LaserJock: You're a Python expert now right? ;-)
<bddebian> Hi BTW :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: haha
<LaserJock> engla: have you seen the Ubuntu Packaging Guide, there is a pbuilder section in there
<LaserJock> help.ubuntu.com is the place to find it
<LaserJock> bddebian: what do you need?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I need to know why this: http://pastebin.us/3488  happens
<engla> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> bddebian: sorry, I really haven't a clue
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you know if it works outside pbuilder?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Dunno but I can run python setup.py without errors inside of a pbuilder login
<LaserJock> weird
<bddebian> Aye
<fbond|away> bddebian, it's probably the environment variables that are being defined
<fbond|away> try separating build and install
<fbond|away>  ... maybe?
<bddebian> I wondered about that.  The line in debian/rules looks a little funky
<fbond|away> exporting those vars I believe affects where things are installed as well as where things are searched for ...
<fbond|away> that could cause the import to fail
<bddebian>         cd python && LIBRARY_PATH=../debian/tmp/usr/lib PKG_CONFIG_PATH=../debian/tmp/usr/lib/pkgconfig $(subst $(PYDEF),python,$*) setup.py install --no-compile --root=../debian/python-diacanvas2
<bddebian> whoops, that's mine, I removed the xfvb run thing
<fbond|away> is the codegen module part of the package you are working with?
<bddebian> fbond|away: No, it gets imported from gtk
<bddebian> Well pygtk
<fbond|away> bddebian, heads up pygtk does weird magic to load codegen, which really sites in /usr/share/pygtk/2.0/codegen/, and debian's python-support infrastructure is probably not a good combination
<bddebian> fbond|away: You think pycentral would be better or just screwed either way?
<fbond|away> bddebian, not sure, I'm not really clear on what pycentral, pysupport are supposed to be providing ... ?
<crimsun> bddebian: doubtful, since pyg{object,tk} use pysupport [unless you plan on changing those source packages, too?] 
<bddebian> Sure, why not.. ;-P
* bddebian crawls back under his rock
<fbond|away> crimsun, what good do pysupport, pycentral do ? i.e. why not just dh_python ?
<LaserJock> crimsun: hmm, maybe whe really should have him doing documentation ;-)
<LaserJock> fbond|away: check out the new Python Policy
<fbond> all these new-fangled policies ...
<LaserJock> fbond: it's about dealing with multiple python versions
<tseng> the old python helpers were bound to a single python version
<tseng> LaserJock: sweet lasers on discovery channel last night
<tseng> Star Wars (1980) type stuff
<LaserJock> neato
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> ICBM killers
<LaserJock> everybody thinks I use these "cut a person in half" kind of lasers
<fbond> oh, I already read the relevant python policy stuff earlier ...
<fbond> not very useful: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ap-packaging_tools.html
<azeem> LaserJock: don't cross the streams!
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> crimsun: I don't think this is a pyobjects problem but I'm stumped :-(
<LaserJock> fbond: maybe http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy is better
<crimsun> bddebian: it's possible that pysupport broke it, but I don't have time to drill down
<LaserJock> bah, were's lucas
<tseng> i wanted to dispute him as well
<LaserJock> dispute?
<tseng> his recent blog
<LaserJock> I just want to know what's up with multi distro tools
<tseng> oh
<LaserJock> I really wish he would get it into universe or something
<LaserJock> I always have to build the packages myself, which isn't a huge thing
<LaserJock> but when I just need to have it there...
<sladen> it is however unproductive hassle
<LaserJock> he did some good work with the scripts, I find them quite useful
<LaserJock> but they kinda fizzled out
<LaserJock> he seems to be rather conducting Xchat polls ;-)
<LaserJock> maybe I was the only one who found them useful, but I can't imagine that
<LaserJock> I'd like to have the ruby stuff ported to python though as I don't know any ruby
<LaserJock> or maybe I should just learn  ruby ;-)
<zul> LaserJock: it looks like he is stirring up more than proving anything useful
<LaserJock> I really don't know the point
<LaserJock> he keeps this unstable vs dapper or edgy thing
<zul> its like comparing apple and oranges..
<Nafallo> well, atleast both are round :-)
<Nafallo> what are you guys talking about? :-)
<LaserJock> http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=206
<tseng> LaserJock: ruby is love
<LaserJock> tseng: but I haven't even figured out python yet :/
<tseng> LaserJock: I skipped python
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think I better do that
<fbond> ruby is more powerful but has less natural (IMO) syntax (and is only marginally more powerful)
<LaserJock> but maybe I can learn enough ruby to at least be able to get around in lucas' scripts
<tseng> I read the pickaxe book in a matter of days
<Goshawk> hi, i've problem finding my password on revu, the script to get it seems broken, can someone fix it or mail me that python script (i can spend time on it...)?
<tseng> how's your OO
<tseng> Goshawk: does it spit out gpg encrypted text?
<LaserJock> I started programing with Fortran, you can guess the rest ;-)
<tseng> Goshawk: i don't think its broken
<Goshawk> tseng: i don't see any gpg text
<tseng> hm i guess it is
<tseng> blame siretart
<LaserJock> yeah, people get that know and then
<LaserJock> it seems random to me
<Goshawk> ok...
<LaserJock> but maybe it isn't
<tseng> i either get a) nothing but help text
<Goshawk> \query siretart
<tseng> b) exception
<Goshawk> ops sorry
<tseng> it should use the launchpad password, I wish
<LaserJock> tseng: REVU2, we promise :-)
<LaserJock> tseng: ack, how do I even install ruby on edgy?
<tseng> LaserJock: apt-get install ruby1.8?
<LaserJock> tseng: ah found it, I could only find ruby1.6 and ruby1.9
<bddebian> Heya lfittl
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Damnit, scourges forum site is down today
<tseng> sounds like a huge loss
<lfittl> bddebian: was there any reply to your post before that?
<lfittl> bddebian: hmm, forum works for me
<bddebian> lfittl: I can't get to it.  Any replies?
* bddebian pokes tseng
* tseng hides
<lfittl> bddebian: ben replied, basically saying welcome, and telling that one of the people who could know something is on vacation
<bddebian> Heh, OK, thx
<lfittl> and that he thinks its great to have an ubuntu package :)
<nicolaw> i'm told this is a good place to gauge the possibility of getting a package added to ubuntu
<lfittl> s/its/it\ would\ be/
<bddebian> nicolaw: Have you already packaged it?
<nicolaw> no - it's a CPAN package
<nicolaw> it is a case of packaging up myself and taking it from there?
<LaserJock> well, it sort of depends
<bddebian> nicolaw: The ideal solution would probably be to package it up and post it on REVU, if possible
<LaserJock> if you *want* to package it yourself then we can help you do that
<imbrandon> LaserJock: did you goto ubucon ?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> hehe nice lemme PM ya
<zul> LaserJock: how was it?
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> about 60 people
<LaserJock> mdz, janes, and a couple other Canonical people showed up
<zul> LaserJock: heh it looks like you get to go to all of the fun places this year
<LaserJock> perhaps, I can't take to much of it
<nicolaw> i'm not really fussed who packages it to be honest, although if other people thing it's worthy of inclusion then it would be nice for the packaging to be owned by someone else ... although having said that i'm the author so ..
<LaserJock> and my boss is sure to get suspicious
<nicolaw> is RRD::Simple http://search.cpan.org/~nicolaw/RRD-Simple/ something that is likely to be included if i packaged up and posted it on REVU (what's REVU)?  :)
<gnomefreak> nicolaw: i think you would have to package it before that can be answered. if it doesnt build right it cant be added.
<nicolaw> ok, fair comment
<nicolaw> is there a specific guide somewhere that you can point me to that I should follow to package it up?
<imbrandon> !packaginguide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packaginguide - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<LaserJock> imbrandon: shesh, get it right ;-)
<nicolaw> thank you :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<gnomefreak> ah i was looking for it
<imbrandon> i think !packaging works too
<LaserJock> it's also in System->Help->System Documentation on a dapper box
<imbrandon> *shrugs*
<Nafallo> !packguide anyone? ;-)
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packguide anyone? ;-) - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<micahcowan> It's currently linked to on the front doc page.
<lfittl> which would be the right package to add udev rules for smartcard readers? (gnupg would be my guess, but I am afraid that such a change to an important main package won't be accepted)
<gnomefreak> yep it does imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> !packguide is <alias> packagingguide
<ubotu> I'll remember that, imbrandon
<imbrandon> there ya go Nafallo
<imbrandon> ;)
<Nafallo> much easier to spell :-)
<micahcowan> Perhaps also add the misspelled version as well?
<imbrandon> !find package
<ubotu> Found: kernel-package, arch-buildpackage, cvs-buildpackage, darcs-buildpackage, jpackage-utils (and 9 others)
<imbrandon> !more
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about more - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> erm
<imbrandon> !find more
<ubotu> Found: xmore, libcarp-assert-more-perl, liblist-moreutils-perl, xlockmore, xlockmore-gl
<imbrandon> gah forget it
<imbrandon> heh
<Nafallo> hehe
<imbrandon> !info xmore edgy
<ubotu> xmore: X client - xmore. In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.0.1-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 6 kB, installed size 80 kB
<imbrandon> that was for packages anyhow
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> !search package
<imbrandon> gah oh well
<gnomefreak> !info nvidia edgy
<ubotu> Package nvidia does not exist in edgy
<gnomefreak> is there any info on when nvidia will release the x7.1 drivers?
<micahcowan> I've heard there aren't even beta drivers avail yet... :(
<gnomefreak> yuck
* micahcowan is currently running edgy at home.... with nvidia card
<gnomefreak> its getting a bit late:(
<gnomefreak> micahcowan: me too but no 3d acc
<gnomefreak> im using vesa atm
<micahcowan> yeah: It's looking very much like there won't be 3d accel for nvidia in edgy, until sometime after release.
<micahcowan> I'm using nvidia, but with the accel disabled (it does work for me: apparently not for all).
<tseng> sigh
<zul> nvidia/ati blows
<tseng> yeah, I don't see why no one recognizes that
<tseng> and goes about their business
<micahcowan> I honestly don't really need the accel often on Linux: the card is pretty much so I can play the games I want on my Windows boot :-/
<zul> i have a seperate computer to play games and its only really one game these days
<asimon> I have a very old nvidia gforce1 card here and it works great under Edgy with nv legacy drivers and with 3d accel.  ;-)
<micahcowan> zul, ooc, what game? :)
<zul> unreal tournament
<zul> i dont play much games
<asimon> zul: that works great under linux too.
<zul> meh...works for me right now
<phanatic> evening
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<lfittl> hey phanatic :)
<phanatic> hey lfittl :)
<lfittl> phanatic: I suppose you didn't have time yet to look at bzr-wmt? (no problem, gives me more time to improve it :))
<phanatic> lfittl: not yet, sorry. i'm currently busy with finishing the code for SoC... i'll do a release soon ;)
<lfittl> phanatic: ah, right, you were working on olive as a SoC project :)
<phanatic> lfittl: exactly :)
<lfittl> did you have enough time to implement the things you planned?
<phanatic> yes, the planned features are mostly implemented (i'd say 95%)
<LaserJock> bddebian: I see scilab 4.0 in Debian!!
<lfittl> nice
<phanatic> i'll do some bundle related things in the next weeks
<phanatic> but it's been self-hosting for weeks now ;)
<lfittl> :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, I thought I had asked for a sync of it? Hmm
<LaserJock> hmm, well it could be, my brain is fried
<bddebian> I don't see it in Edgy
<crimsun> of course it's not in Edgy. There's no bug report w/ u-a subscribed requesting a sync.
<phanatic> the new debian python policy is the standard for edgy, right?
<tseng> yes
<bddebian> Damnit, nothing is working for me lately...
* bddebian starts crying :-(
<phanatic> tseng: thanks
<LaserJock> bddebian: you'll be alright :-)
* Plug eagerly checks REVU
<Plug> ...no one loves me :(
<Plug> (ajmitch, get out of bed, this means you ;)
<bddebian> plug: What's on REVU
<Plug> my very first (shared) Ubuntu package
<Plug> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2918
<lfittl> Plug: there should be only one initial changelog entry (instead of the 3 you have now)
<ajmitch> Plug: slacker I've been out of bed for awhile
<Plug> Yep, I cocked up the version numbers initially :)
<bddebian> heh
<Plug> what defines 'initial' ?
<Plug> ie, am I allowed a new one for each version?
* ajmitch doesn't mind having the changelog history kept
<ajmitch> I don't know why people think it *has* to be pruned
<Nafallo> initial is the first, after that it's "new upstream release" ;-)
<lfittl> ajmitch: because a shorter changelog makes it easier to find something
<Plug> so in that case, only the first one is initial!
<ajmitch> lfittl: not really
<Nafallo> Plug: yes :-)
<lfittl> ajmitch: why? only the changes that made it into the archive are interesting, at least for searching "where was bug #xxx fixed", so why keep entries that often only say new cvs checkout (as with the second one in this case)
<Plug> Well, in that case, the version number was bumped
<lfittl> ajmitch: I don't see it as MUST be, but as nice to have ;)
<Plug> so either you lose the previous entry, or you create a new one
<ajmitch> because I'm not the sort of person that likes to throw away the history of changes in the package, which often document why something was done
<Plug> lfittl: that is easy to change/condense though
<lfittl> ajmitch: but often (if we talk about packages at REVU) these are just simple fixes like adjust version number to match ubuntu versioning, I don't see what this should document
<lfittl> but discussing this leads to nothing ;)
<lfittl> Plug: I won't be the one wo can upload/approve your package, do that what you consider best (as it doesn't make a big difference)
<Plug> I can fix it, thanks for the pointer
<Plug> any other comments are welcomed
<Plug> (be gentle)
<lfittl> Plug: another cleanup thing, you could remove the commented dh_* stuff in debian/rules, as it isn't needed
<lfittl> Plug: changelog distribution should be edgy instead of dapper
<asimon> Regarding changelog distribution, when doing a debdiff for a dapper bug, I use dapper-updates instead of dapper, right?
<Plug> well, *ahem* at this case, its a dapper package
<lfittl> asimon: yep
<Plug> I haven't tried building it for edgy yet
<asimon> lfittl: ok, thanks
<lfittl> Plug: ah, k (you might want to create an edgy pbuilder for packaging stuff, this way you can at least test if it builds without a problem)
<lfittl> will do a quick test build here on edgy
<Plug> I know the version of NM has gone up a couple
<lfittl> does it require a specific NM version?
<Plug> lfittl: good point, it requires > 0.6.0 I believe, and less than HEAD
<Plug> edgy has 0.6.3 or 0.6.4 so it should be OK
<lfittl> Plug: you might want to do a versioned build dependency on network-manager-dev then, just to be on the safe side
<lfittl> Plug: you are missing a build-dependency on dpatch
<lfittl> have you tried to build this in a pbuilder?
<Plug> no.  I have created a pbuilder but I needed to update it and havent done so yet
<lfittl> Plug: k, best would be to do the pbuilder testing before asking for reviews here / uploading to REVU ;)
<Plug> see, if I hadn't asked for a review here, I'd not have found that out! :)
<lfittl> :)
<bddebian> Later gang
<lfittl> later bddebian
<lfittl> Plug: another missing build-dep: ppp-dev
<lfittl> Plug: building seems to work fine under edgy, can't test the package because I don't have PPTP, sry
<lfittl> Plug: but if you fix the stuff (most important the build-deps) I pointed out, it is easier for the next one to review ;)
<Plug> will do asap
<Plug> thanks for your help and suggestions
<lfittl> no problem :)
<lfittl> have to get some sleep, gn8 everybody
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-22
<bddebian> Heya gang
<welshbyte> ello bddebian
<bddebian> Hi welshbyte
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<welshbyte> bddebian: does gnu-smalltalk still need packaging from upstream?
<bddebian> welshbyte: afaik
<welshbyte> i might have a look at it for a challenge
<bddebian> Great
<welshbyte> i spoke too soon - pc just died and won't boot :/
<bddebian> doh
<crimsun> well, you wanted a challenge.
<bddebian> I think my Dapper laptop is dying too :-(
<crimsun> no greater challenge than "machine won't boot"
<welshbyte> crimsun: indeed, nothing's ever as easy as you expect it to be
<bddebian> Yeah, like this freakin' diacanvas2 crap :-(
* bddebian blames crimsun
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> yeah, that'll backfire quickly.
<bddebian> :)
* LaserJock points his Nd:YAG in the direction of bddebian's laptop. "Maybe that'll fix it" :-)
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> tseng: "we, we, we"
<LaserJock> :-)
<tseng> yeah serious
<tseng> imperative
<bddebian> should: pkg-config pygtk-2.0 return something?
<LaserJock> it's imperative that we break our machines, NOW!
<tseng> sweet
<bddebian> hehe
<tseng> can someone else jump in here
<tseng> before I get cranky
<tseng> no one wants that.
<crimsun> just walk away from it; it's not worth the energy.
<tseng> good time for dinner
<crimsun> bddebian: just ``pkg-config pygtk-2.0''?
<bddebian> crimsun: I read the man page, thanks
<crimsun> (it returns 0 here)
<welshbyte> ah, it was the graphics card
<bddebian> crimsun: Actually it was using pkg-config --variable codegendir pygtk-2.0
<crimsun> bddebian: (correct, hence my question)
<crimsun> without passing any additional parameters it'll just return 0
<bddebian> Well the way I read that first, I though it was setting codegendir that way :-)
<bddebian> This shit is crazy
<bddebian> Damnit, it's just write_source that it can't import from codegen..
<bddebian> >>> from codegen import write_source
<bddebian> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bddebian>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<bddebian> ImportError: cannot import name write_source
<bddebian> Should that tell me something?
<crimsun> yes.
<illovae> hello :)
<crimsun> bddebian: did you set the path and everything?
<bddebian> crimsun: I can import just about everything else from codegen
<bddebian> Hello illovae
<illovae> :)
<crimsun> bddebian: did you file a bug on pygobject?
<bddebian> crimsun: How do I know that's what it is?
<crimsun> what file owns the one where the error is thrown?
<bddebian> codegen.py
<crimsun> s/one/code/
<bddebian> crimsun: Or did you mean what package?
<crimsun> I meant which package.
<crimsun> root@adhd:/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/gtk-2.0# dpkg -S dsextras.py
<crimsun> python-gobject: /usr/share/python-support/python-gobject/gtk-2.0/dsextras.py
<bddebian> Hmm, not python-gtk2-dev?
<bddebian> >>> print codegendir
<bddebian> /usr/share/pygtk/2.0/codegen
<crimsun> look at the file where write_source is [attempted to be]  imported
<crimsun> that's /var/lib/python-support/python2.4/gtk-2.0/dsextras.py , which is owned by python-gobject, whose source package is pygobject
<crimsun> I checked pygobject upstream cvs early this morning and noticed more interface & implementation updates beyond 2.11.2, but I have not attempted to build it
<bddebian> crimsun: Not afaict from running setup.py by hand
<bluefoxicy> I just made the coolest bug report ever
<bddebian> bluefoxicy: Do you do anything besides file bugs?
<crimsun> bddebian: interesting. So was that through pbuilder login?
<bddebian> crimsun: Aye
<crimsun> he messes with specs.
* crimsun ducks
<bluefoxicy> bddebian: no, well yes but it also involves talking a lot
<bddebian> So I've noticed :)
<bluefoxicy> bddebian: I just filed a 5 word long bug that says wine segfaults
<bluefoxicy> crimsun:  latest specs messed with:  EdgyPlusOneToolchainRoadmap; RapidReboot
<bddebian> crimsun: Hmm, I think it's failing from dsextras trying to bring in codegen, not from setup.py trying to bring it in
<crimsun> hi. that's what I've been saying since last night.
<crimsun> file the bug against pygobject.
<bddebian> crimsun: Well I'm a little dumb, what can I say
<crimsun> no, not dumb.
<bddebian> Yes, dumb
<ajmitch> afternoon
<crimsun> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Why do we have pygobject and Debian has python-gtk2 having dsextras.py?
<crimsun> pretty straightforward, because Debian doesn't have the pygobject source package.
<crimsun> (and if you'll note in upstream cvs, pygobject was split out for easier maintenance)
<fbond> remind me:
* ajmitch happily rejects another duplicate
<fbond> who do I need to talk to to get a line added to /etc/services?
<crimsun> you beg n' plead with the maintainers of netbase.
<crimsun> ideally you need to get something verified upstream upstream.
<ryanakca> crimsun: still no response from Mr. Lai about changing the name of gnome-clipboard-daemon, going on to day 18 since the e-mail... wait till the months end or ???    http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2812
<crimsun> ryanakca: 30 days is at least courteous.
<ryanakca> crimsun: kk :)
<fbond> maybe I could just upload a new netbase package to revu :)
<zul_> heylo
<ajmitch> hi zul_
<fbond> crimsun, given maintainer listed for netbase is a debian maintainer, does my package need to go into debian for an extra /etc/services line to be feasible?
<crimsun> fbond: that would be most useful
<bddebian> crimsun: OK, OK, I give up :-)
<bddebian> Wb LaserJock
<LaserJock> thanks bddebian
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<Quinn_Storm> hey guys, I only just got the message inviting me here from the ubuntu forums, which I almost never read (compiz.net is plenty to keep me busy, heh) so...hi
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> hello Quinn_Storm
<bddebian> Hello Quinn_Storm
<Quinn_Storm> also, to those to whom it matters, I have already talked with the maintainer who did the gnome-terminal upload, and messes like that won't happen again
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> how can we help?
<Quinn_Storm> well apparently, according to the message, you guys wanted to meet with me?
* ajmitch hasn't seen the message at all
<Quinn_Storm> Viper550 wrote it..."The MOTU team would like to meet you, come by on #ubuntu-motu on Freenode and we'll discuss further."
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> ah, viper550
<tseng> he is a little overly excited
<Quinn_Storm> I see
<ajmitch> having working packages in edgy is still appreciated though
<Quinn_Storm> well, the packages in my repo should be okay...I still haven't switched gconf over, that's about the only thing.  beyond that, the packages build-deps should be exactly right, etc.
<ajmitch> there are still a few issues, like being a native package (no orig.tar.gz) but versioned with a debian revision
<trpr_> *repeat after connection trouble* two libs are missing from the kdejava build. the developer reports this is because of some automake/libtool bug, but the libs can be produced after the fact with only qtjava.jar/koala.jar and a clean kdebindings source tree. how should i proceed with something like this?
<trpr_> as far as i can tell kdejava apps can't be packaged without these two libs
<Quinn_Storm> hmm, resolving that should be done too...I should probably switch from davidr's-0quinn# to davidr's.# for my release versioning
<Quinn_Storm> the -0xxx is actually a holdover from the very first packaging, which I didn't even do
<ajmitch> -0ubuntu1 is normal for something in ubuntu that's not in debian
<ajmitch> I saw that there's someone in debian working on compiz packages now also
<Quinn_Storm> yeah, true, though I thought non-'native' was only for packages where the maintainer wasn't the manager of the source tree (i.e. where there were changes between source tree & package)
<ajmitch> unless the package is specifically for debian/ubuntu, it's best not to use native packages
<Quinn_Storm> well I'll still have to change my versioning scheme...it'll have to be davidr's.#-0ubuntu1 instead of davidr's-0quinn#
<tseng> Quinn_Storm: pittsburgh eh
<Quinn_Storm> yep, tseng
<bddebian> Hmm, I was just in Pittsburgh
<tseng> Philadelphia-ish
<Quinn_Storm> ah, cool
<ajmitch> it'd be nice to have the core code being the same & being able to ship extra plugins
<tseng> bddebian too
<Quinn_Storm> well, let me run a quick diff of the core code, that way we can see what all will need changed...actually I don't think its a lot
<ajmitch> I didn't think it was much
<ajmitch> is davidr back coding on compiz yet?
<Quinn_Storm> no git commits yet
<tseng> what is the R for by the way
<Quinn_Storm> reveman
<tseng> i have a terrible time keeping david r and david zeuthan straight
<tseng> for some reason they kept showing up at the same time at guadec
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<tseng> or something
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: the only other issue with shipping extra plugins will be that some of the quinn-tree modified plugins are the same name as the vanilla plugins...so I'm guessing we'll have to use diversions to manage that? so we can have a compiz-quinn that installs atop compiz and diverts the things that conflict?
<ajmitch> diversions are ugly & nasty, but it's a possibility
<tseng> is there a compelling reason to ship modifications over upstream, where upstream rejects them?
<Quinn_Storm> so far upstream has been -very- reluctant to accept any community code
<tseng> do they offer a reason?
<Quinn_Storm> well they is he, davidr, and its unclear at the moment, not to mention he's been MIA for about 3 weeks now
<Quinn_Storm> okay, it seems there are only a couple real patches in the core code now.  #1 is a patch to add the raise window binding (I think this one just hasn't made it upstream yet), #2 is Xinerama support (davidr is opposed to Xinerama), #3 is the gl_include_inferiors & such AIGLX-compat patches, they just haven't made it upstream yet either, #4 is the libsvg_cairo->librsvg patch, which actually, I'm not sure how much it affects 
<Quinn_Storm> n stuff, #5 is version numbering stuff, and #6 is a tiny little patch to add an externally available function for moveInputFocusToWindow
<Quinn_Storm> oh and the #define for paint_window_decoration_mask is in compiz.h, a minor change, and technically can be moved elsewhere but should probably stay there since it is used by various plugins.  (it doesn't change the functioning of the core)
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<Quinn_Storm> so, what do you think I should do about the core changes?  Xinerama is very important, so are the aiglx patches, the switch from libsvg-cairo to librsvg is important because librsvg is maintained, the version numbering stuff of course is meaningless if I just change the configure.ac version instead (add a minor minor version)
<ajmitch> are the applied directly or split out as patches in the package?
<Quinn_Storm> they are currently applied directly
<Quinn_Storm> because I maintain a source tree
<imbrandon> moins LaserJock ajmitch bddebian
<ajmitch> hello imbrandon
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: you fel that your branch is stable enough to put into edgy? I know it's been changing fairly quickly
<Quinn_Storm> the trouble is...no, I don't...and I don't see it stopping changing any time soon either...the community I work with are...rather rapid about their developments...
<ajmitch> right, that's why I was considering putting davidr's branch in, which I packaged a couple of weeks back
* bluefoxicy dives into writing a patricia trie in C with no pre-planning.
* bluefoxicy borrows ajmitch's desk to slam his face into periodically.
<Quinn_Storm> once he comes back, his development will continue, but I still doubt he'll accept things from the community...especially things like Xinerama, which is a deal-breaker for those who use it
<ajmitch> he felt that xinerama was out of place?
* ajmitch has a dual-head setup as well
<Quinn_Storm> he wants to write his own solution instead of using xinerama
<Quinn_Storm> he has repeatedly claimed it will be here "real soon now"
<ajmitch> that does get annoying for those of us who wait for it
<Lathiat> how do you replace xinerama
<Lathiat> so all the logic applications use to figure out the screens will be broken?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> awesome
<ajmitch> but the window manager can still place things
<Quinn_Storm> thus, the community has gone with xinerama, less wait, more functionality
<ajmitch> however gtk+ & other toolkits use xinerama as well
<Quinn_Storm> as for my compiz core, I doubt it will change any faster than davidr's, it'd just be plugin changes, bugfixes, updates...the one problem though would be maintaining the tree, as at the moment the whole thing is built as one source package->multiple binaries...I'd have to split it out into more than one source tree...
<Quinn_Storm> the other problem with splitting plugins out into a different source tree is gconf schemas...they are done programatically instead of by hand...
<ajmitch> splitting the source shouldn't take too much, it'd be nice to coordinate that with davidr if he's willing
<Quinn_Storm> I could try, but I have a feeling that working toward packaging on a particular distro isn't one of his major goals
<ajmitch> it could benefit other distros though
<Quinn_Storm> really though...updates to compiz itself have slowed down, they're down to about one per week now (and updating compiz itself along with the plugins is minor, the plugins make up the bulk of the package)
<ajmitch> it'd require some versioning & a stable interface between core & plugins - most of that is there
<Quinn_Storm> well, what I could do is break -all- of the plugins out into a separate tree+package, leaving just compiz and gnome-window-decorator in the core tree...(we haven't touched gnome-window-decorator, its back to its pristine upstream version)...that way I could still keep the gconf schemas in sync...
<ajmitch> that could be good
<ajmitch> sigh, launchpad going down for 3.5 hours.. that's quite awhile
<Quinn_Storm> then the compiz src package would build compiz and compiz-gnome-integration (optional, you could use cgwd instead), and the plugins package (required by -gnome-integration and cgwd) would carry all the plugins...at least that way the core could change slower than the plugins...
<bddebian> Yeah, wtf? :-(
<Quinn_Storm> I'd just have to keep the core up to date whenever the ABI changes with Conflicts lines (same w/ plugins with a proper Depends line)
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: it'd be nice if users didn't have to specify the gconf plugin to start with
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: well that would be a simple hack to the compiz script...its already started by a script
<bddebian> Ugh, this typo3 package is hideous too :-(
<ajmitch> yes, I was thinking about that this morning - do all plugins currently require gconf?
<Quinn_Storm> none of them require it, but its the only plugin that actually handles configuration options right now
<Quinn_Storm> compiz was designed with a system-agnostic configuration system, and then only one plugin was ever written for it (gconf)
<ajmitch> right
<Quinn_Storm> I should probably make the compiz.wrapper (/usr/bin/compiz) script actually call compiz --replace gconf, if no options are specified on the command line...does that make sense?
<ajmitch> yes
<Quinn_Storm> the wrapper script of course is to do the LD_PRELOADing that ati & nvidia users need
<Quinn_Storm> hmm
<Quinn_Storm> I should have it test for aiglx somehow too...
<ajmitch> I was thinking this morning that you could source config options from ~/.compiz.conf or similar
<ajmitch> so that users can override loading gconf
<Quinn_Storm> yeah but you'd need a gui tool to configure it, and a plugin to read it
<ajmitch> not necessarily
<ajmitch> it'd just be a shell script, which is loaded into the wrapper
<ajmitch> like anything in /etc/default is
<Quinn_Storm> how would it tell compiz the options though?
<ajmitch> just shell options
<ajmitch> like USE_GCONF
<Quinn_Storm> see, without an options plugin of some kind, the options can't get into compiz...oh ok, those kind of options
* Plug loves conversations that talk about plugins
<Plug> they set my nick highlighting off regularly ;)
<ajmitch> it must make you feel special :)
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<Plug> Quinn_Storm: thank you for everything you've done with compiz/xgl.  It'ss absolutely fantastic.
<Quinn_Storm> Plug: you're welcome...right now we're working on getting it to a more...cleanly packaged point
<Quinn_Storm> question, does it make sense to version compiz-plugins just starting from 0.1?
<ajmitch> either that or match the compiz version that they're for
<Quinn_Storm> well, the idea is they will be changing faster than compiz
* ajmitch has to head out for awhile
* Quinn_Storm is busily splitting source
<Quinn_Storm> (its easier than splitting atoms)
<LaserJock> mmmm, splitting atoms
* Quinn_Storm is so glad she finally learned autohell for cgwd
* welshbyte ponders his own sanity whilst pbuilder chugs away for the Nth time tonight
<Quinn_Storm> now...question...I know ajmitch isn't here, but someone can help...should I make 'compiz' a virtual package depending on 'compiz-core' and 'compiz-plugins'? or should I keep 'compiz' just being the core?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> can you use compiz-core without compiz-plugins?
<welshbyte> does the core work at all without the plu... what LaserJock said
<Quinn_Storm> not really...no...so I guess compiz depending on compiz-plugins is probably the best way to do it
<LaserJock> I would think so
<Quinn_Storm> hmm, I just uncovered a problem with the way I am going about this...the 'compiz' package installs headers required to build the 'compiz-plugins' package...so...maybe I should do it with compiz depending on compiz-plugins which depends on compiz-core?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: is there a mugshot deb or did you alien the rpm ? i just got my invite but it only offered a rpm download
<Plug> jdub had one somewhere
<Plug> http://people.ubuntu.com/~jdub/edgy/
<LaserJock> Quinn_Storm: that I'm not sure of
<imbrandon> Plug: thanks
<crimsun> -core should be precisely that. -plugins should be extra. -core should not depend on -plugins, but -plugins must depend on -core. compiz can be used as a transitional package depending on both -core and -plugins
<Quinn_Storm> that's what I'm doing, crimsun
<LaserJock> are those in the same source package?
<Quinn_Storm> -plugins is a different package
<LaserJock> ahh
<Quinn_Storm> -core and 'compiz' are in the same source package
<Quinn_Storm> that's the point of this
<Quinn_Storm> so we can update -plugins separately
<crimsun> LaserJock: didn't you use quodlibet as an example? ;)
<LaserJock> I didn't get that far :(
<LaserJock> that reminds me
<LaserJock> I need to finish the stupid irc log on the wiki
* ajmitch wishes he could be a packaging legend like LaserJock 
<crimsun> raging ubuntu-aholic motu that he is
<ajmitch> someone needs to look out for us little guys, right crimsun ?
<crimsun> definitely :)
<hub> imbrandon: I have a more recent mugshot
<hub> imbrandon: maybe I should upload it to REVU, NOT FOR INCLUSION
<hub> imbrandon: I packaged the latest version actually
<LaserJock> shesh, you guys are going to turn me into another bddebian
<imbrandon> hub: nice , if you want i can stick it in my repo
<imbrandon> but either way i would love a vopy
<imbrandon> copy*
<hub> imbrandon: the source package is uploaded
<hub> to REVU
<hub> builds on dapper and edgy
<imbrandon> nice cool
<hub> it is a rip off of jdub packages, updated
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you have a mugshot account?
<hub> I have invites for who want
<hub> just give me your address
<hub> first come, etc
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i'm making one now, i just got my invite a few minutes ago
<hub> btw mugshot is a real nagware
<imbrandon> heh well ajmitch said he was using it so i figured it would atleaste "try" it ;)
<ajmitch> 'using' is such a loose term
<imbrandon> ;)
<hub> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2921
<hub> the mugshot package
<imbrandon> if it bugs me too much i can always dpkg --purge remove ;)
<fdsd> hey guys, I am making livecds, I made one ppc live cd, everything went very smoothly and its all set, but now I am trying to make a x86 livecd from ubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso and I am running into issues.   I am trying to modify the usplash boot up, I was able to do it perfectly following this howto on my ppc livecd: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplashCustomizationHowto  but for some reason with x86 ubuntu
<fdsd> machine I install my new usplash and it only boots to black now.  ANy ideas
<LaserJock> fdsd: not going so well in -devel? :-)
<imbrandon> usplash bug , known afaik with the latest uspash
<fdsd> LaserJock, 45min no answer
<fdsd> imbrandon, oh really, do you know how I can look into it?
<imbrandon> on LP ? i dunno i just take splash out of my kernel line ;)
<imbrandon> dget http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mugshot-0608212350/mugshot_1.1.13-0ubuntu1.dsc
<imbrandon> doh
<fdsd> Does anyone know if the livecd/casper/initrd.gz is the same as /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-26-386 in the filesystem.squashfs?
<fdsd> imbrandon, does that make usplash still work?
<imbrandon> no it disables it
<fdsd> oh ok
<imbrandon> one of the downfalls of running a dev version
<imbrandon> i would stick to the stable stuff for a live cd ;)
<fdsd> imbrandon, do you know how isolinux calls up usplash?  I know the grub/menu.list file is what you edit on ubuntu, but what about the livecd?
<fdsd> imbrandon, ok, cool thank you
<imbrandon> no idea man
<fdsd> if I chroot into the filesystem.squash that is on the livecd can I do dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r) ?
<fdsd> will it update everything needed?
<imbrandon> i think you need the -devel god's we're just packers ;)
<fdsd> heh no prob
<fdsd> I would have thought the ppc livecd would have been harder
<fdsd> ppc guys document things better
<fdsd> lol
<imbrandon> hrm hub seems the build-deps on that arent quite correct
<imbrandon> configure: error: XScreenSaver extension is required - X11/extensions/scnsaver.h, libXss.so
<imbrandon> from pbuilder ( edgy )
<bluefoxicy> insight does not seem to STEP through lines of source code when i -ggdb gcc
<hub> imbrandon: *sigh*
<bluefoxicy> this is irritating.  I am searching for another debugger.
<hub> imbrandon: ok. hold on
<hub> imbrandon: I run dapper here
<imbrandon> np i can fix it here for me, just wanted to let you know
<hub> and I don't think I did pbuild it
<imbrandon> hehe
<hub> imbrandon: if you can comment on REVU, I'll get the changes
<imbrandon> k
<hub> mugshot people don't really want to see it in distros, so it can wait
<hub> :-)
<hub> for the advocate
<imbrandon> hehe ok
<hub> but getting input and having fun, sure
<imbrandon> its gpl but they dont want it in the distro ?
<fdsd> imbrandon, what ubuntu livecd would you recommend?
<fdsd> imbrandon, 5.10 any good?
<imbrandon> fdsd: for? 6.06.1 would be the latest stable
<fdsd> imbrandon, oh I thought that is what I was using
<fdsd> imbrandon, I was using that.. usplash is broken in that version of stable?
<imbrandon> well the usplash is a edgy problem asaik but like i said these are issues i have VERY limited know how about , your better off asking in -devel ( even at a later time )
<fdsd> imbrandon, what is the difference between 5.10 and 6.06?
<imbrandon> *cough* they are diffrent released version , what do you mean ?
<LaserJock> :-)
<hub> imbrandon: it is just that they are changing the protocol once in a while
<hub> imbrandon: so it breaks a lot
<hub> imbrandon: think "immature"
<hub> imbrandon: nothing to do with the license
<imbrandon> ahh
* imbrandon is looking for the package that provides libXss.so
<hub> libxss1
<welshbyte> or libxss-dev
<bddebian> libxss-dev
<hub> yeah
<hub> that one
<hub> I searched on the other machine
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hub: working now and the extra deps added to comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2921
<imbrandon> so i would build in pbuilder
<imbrandon> it would*
<hub> yeah
<hub> I don't even think I did pbuild it
<hub> actaully
<hub> nor did the original packager
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i might stick it i my personal repos on imbrandon.com if you dont mind since we wont be putting it in edgy atm
<hub> sure
<hub> share
<imbrandon> Seveas: ping
<imbrandon> heay Hobbsee
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon, bddebian
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<imbrandon> @now amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: August 22 2006, 06:38:32
<ubuntu-es> imbrandon: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
<Hobbsee> yay, i get to request another sync, it looks like
<Hobbsee> we have 2 bots here now?
<imbrandon> kinda early i guess
<imbrandon> yea i dunno wth -es is
<imbrandon> its not seveas;s
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: you mean 3 ;)
<imbrandon> err 4 ( loggin bot too )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: true that
<imbrandon> i guess its something to do with the -es channel but i dunno why its in here or answers to @blah
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hub http://www.imbrandon.com/packages/pool/{dapper,edgy}/extras/  ( will work as "deb http://imbrandon.com/packages {dapper,edgy} extras" also and my pubkey is imbrandon.com/pubkey.gpg ) if your interested or wanna poke someone to it later ( for the mugshot )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you get the konvi repo working?
<Quinn_Storm> I should eventually replace the use of dh_shlibdeps...shouldn't I
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: yup s/extras/konversation-nightly/g
<Hobbsee> imbrandon:
<Hobbsee> i was never using extras in there
<Hobbsee> sure you dont mean the other awy around?
<imbrandon> i ment from the line i posted above ;)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: deb http://imbrandon.com/packages {dapper,edgy} konversation-nightly
<imbrandon> is the konversation
<imbrandon> i should realy make an index of all the components i guess ;)
<imbrandon> or you could be brave and use "all" ;)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<Hobbsee> you know, it helps if i dont comment it out...
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> brb soda time
<imbrandon> hrm Seveas has a html generator in falcon i might try that to make the package index
<imbrandon> ..... *looks8
<welshbyte> hm when i run pbuilder a bunch of dpkg-* messages complain about a utmp entry not available and no LOGNAME defined... should i fix that (and how) or can i ignore it?
* imbrandon ignores it ...........
* Quinn_Storm ignores it too :-P
<imbrandon> i dunno if thats the right answer but thats what __I__ do ;)
<welshbyte> heh ok :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: btw if you havent already install konversation-dbg ( i should make it a dep since these are nightlys )
<Hobbsee> point.
<Hobbsee> i'm still getting the upgrades
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ktorrent 2.0.1 is out, check your email
<imbrandon> i know i saw it yesterday
<imbrandon> there isnt a changelog for me to ask for a uvfe with though so i put it off
<Quinn_Storm> question...since it was mentioned...does it actually -work- now? (ktorrent)
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm: yes, quite well
<imbrandon> ( edgy )
<Quinn_Storm> cool, I tried it long ago and it was a real worthless piece of software
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: can you ask asimon for a changelog please ? ( just from 2.0 to 2.0.1 would work )
<imbrandon> i'll get a uvf from mdz if i get that, btw whats up with kopete 0.12.2 i seen the source on voyager ready to go but you dident get a uvfe for it ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: riddell requested the uvf - and dont touch it - some of the sources are outdated
<imbrandon> haha i wasent going to , i was just wondering
<imbrandon> what about amarok 1.4.2
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: need to wait for release, but i'll write a UVF exception for it soon
<imbrandon> was released at 1900 utc yesterday ;)
* Quinn_Storm loves amarok
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: not according to the channel...
* Hobbsee has been asleep
<ajmitch> at this time of day?
<imbrandon> its been taged and released they are waiting on the ftp to sync but the ftp is getting new hardware ( see planet.k.o ) soo it will get pushed to sf.net in the meantime probably if it hasent already
<imbrandon> nixternal: ping ....
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i woke at 1, yes.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, that's what i saw.
<imbrandon> wow , you sounds like me ;)
* imbrandon yawns
* LaserJock throws some mt. dew in imbrandon's open mouth
<imbrandon> woot energy
<LaserJock> that's better :-)
* Hobbsee watches imbrandon go bouncing off the walls
<LaserJock> I see my mosh pit comment made the fridge ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're a celebrity, expect to be quoted :)
<imbrandon> man i just realized how long that story is
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so when does your stuff hit the planet?
<ajmitch> pity the group photo is so small
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: good luck
<imbrandon> ajmitch: click it
<ajmitch> I don't blog
<ajmitch> imbrandon: still too small
<imbrandon> ajmitch:  hold on
<imbrandon> http://whiprush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/img_6478.jpg
<crimsun> it's friggin huge on this 12" lcd
<imbrandon> thats the bigest one
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's the one I'm talking about :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: pity.  dont tell pia that.
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe I should try a blog post
<ajmitch> why not?
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<LaserJock> I'm usually to busy to rehash what I've been doing all day
* imbrandon is blogging stuff right now to be published in a few minutes
* ajmitch is not an eloquent speaker like LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: she'll go nuts and tell you that you should have a blog
<LaserJock> heh
* crimsun leaves it to raging ubuntu-aholics and deities
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i realy think you should have a blog, they are kinda fun at times
* ajmitch is fine with being anonymous
<imbrandon> heh
* Quinn_Storm could never make herself update one often enough
<LaserJock> that's my problem
<imbrandon> sooo Hobbsee that brings us to your blog, if i finish your gotchi tonight will you ? hehe
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: so...is the policy to do 0ubuntu1 on all packages? if so I can add it to cgwd and cgwd-themes
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hehe  maybe.  will it look decent?
<LaserJock> but I'm finding it's a good way to get info out and then you don't forget
* Hobbsee wants her hair!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: yea i'll make sure you have hair ;)
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> Uptime: 1 hours and 7 minutes
* Hobbsee frown
<Hobbsee> s
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: generally yes - then packaging revisions go to -0ubuntu2, etc
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you're bald?!?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: green bug-eyed alien?
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: okay, just wanted to check
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: send me the photo with you in shades and the car again , i think that one will work well
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no.  but he got rid of most of my hair :(
* ajmitch has nowhere near the public profile of Hobbsee 
<LaserJock> bummer
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah.  like i'm well known
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i cut here hair short on the last one heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: known well enough
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: actually, you're right - known too well
* Quinn_Storm is well known enough for people to get totally wrong ideas about her, like that she works for novell, lol (did a bit of vanity googling recently)
<LaserJock> hehe
<Hobbsee> Quinn_Storm: hehe, nice
<Quinn_Storm> they also claimed I was now the lead compiz dev, and me and david were rewriting it together
<LaserJock> I'm not very well known, thank goodness
<imbrandon> heh i love vanity googling , you run accross some ancient stuff i had forgotten about ;)
<LaserJock> I've got enough to do as it is
<crimsun> whatever raging ubuntu-aholic motu.
<imbrandon> lol
<welshbyte> my name's too common for vanity googling :/
<ajmitch> yes, too much travelling to conferences, giving talks, etc
<Quinn_Storm> my handle is pretty unusual
<ajmitch> fairly so, yes
<imbrandon> i google my real name as thats what most people that would google me would do
<LaserJock> well, I've done 4 blog posts since January :/
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, and I do get in the top 10 of searches for my name :)
<LaserJock> then you must be famous
<ajmitch> ah no, not at the moment
<ajmitch> debian qa & launchpad profile are on the 2nd page of results now
* Quinn_Storm is just happy to have stumbled into such a damn cool project (compiz)
<carthik> All it takes is a rather unusual first name
<imbrandon> hehe i get in te first 4 pages of mine , infact for "Brandon Holtsclaw" there is only 2 or 3 entries in the first 4 pages that arent mine ( some high school kid in band camp in Lousania is named Brandon Holtsclaw too, go figure )
<LaserJock> for mine, #1 is my LP account, #2 is my Debian qa
<LaserJock> and lots of gpg
<imbrandon> #1 is my blog imbrandon.com ;)
<imbrandon> #2 is LP #3 is seti @home
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Brandon+Holtsclaw%22&btnG=Google+Search
<LaserJock> what the heck, there is a LWN post with just the accepted email from a package I uploaded
<imbrandon> out of the first 4 or 5 pages only 2 or 3 entries arent me
<LaserJock> http://lwn.net/Articles/194458/
<LaserJock> well, my blog uses my nick so...
<imbrandon> heh my nick and real name are so close plus i put my realname on my blog too
<LaserJock> my name fairs much better at finding me then my nick
<Quinn_Storm> ugh ok...now what did I do wrong, debuild isn't spitting out an orig.tar.gz it seems
<LaserJock> my nick is everywhere
<LaserJock> debuild -S -sa?
<Quinn_Storm> yeah I guess I have to do that
<imbrandon> my big thing was with such a uniq last name as mine i was suprised there is another "brandon holtsclaw" in the usa and is about -10years younger than me
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I've talked to someone else using 'ajmitch', from scotland
<imbrandon> but like i said google dont turn much up on him , the only thing i know is he is a HS student in band in lousania somewhere
<ajmitch> not particularly surpring that they were there
<imbrandon> wow cool
<ajmitch> I do know of another Andrew Mitchell at my university
* Hobbsee has an artist that takes up all of her real name google searching.
<imbrandon> yea andrew mitchel isnt too common either so thats cool
<ajmitch> even more confusing - I know of another Andrew Mitchell involved in archery in NZ
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> and archery is a small sport here
<welshbyte> i know an andrew mitchell through my computer society
<imbrandon> its semi small here too
<ajmitch> it'd be great to shoot against him one day :)
<imbrandon> most archers here are deer hunters
<LaserJock> my undergrad uni had an archery team
<Quinn_Storm> is there anything I need to actually change in debian/ to make it create an orig.tar.gz?  b/c I thought I just had to use a -0xx1 version and it'd do it automatically
<ajmitch> this is just in the target archery sport
<LaserJock> archery and rodea were the only things we were any good at ;-)
<LaserJock> *rodeo
<LaserJock> that's Montana for you
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: no, you create an orig.tar.gz yourself, either by renaming the upstream tarball or just rolling the tarball
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: ah I thought I could automate it with debuild
<ajmitch> no, since the upstream tarball generally doesn't change
<ajmitch> in your case it probably will, since you're acting as upstream in a sense
<Quinn_Storm> ah, ok, well that'll be easy to do in my release script...it should be packagename-baseversion.orig.tar.gz?
<Hobbsee|2mins> hah!
<Hobbsee|2mins> "you are running low on battery power"
<ajmitch> Quinn_Storm: package_baseversion.orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> the _ vs - is important
<Quinn_Storm> ajmitch: ok.  and it goes into the dir you are building in? one above the actual src dir?
<ajmitch> a directory above the unpacked source
<Quinn_Storm> ok, and for doing it in a pbuilder?
<ajmitch> same thing - you're building a source package for pbuilder to use
<ajmitch> if you pass pbuilder the .dsc, it gets the right files to build
<Quinn_Storm> ok so...make the package_baseversion -then- use that to make the dsc?
<Quinn_Storm> then use that to pbuild
<LaserJock> pretty much, yeah
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> at Ubucon I got -1% battery left :-)
<Hobbsee|NoBatter> hehe
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee|NoBatter> it just keeps sitting at 1 min remaining...
<Hobbsee|NoBatter> with the bar at empty
<imbrandon> thats alright on my desktop ( no batery ) it always reads 50% 10 minutes left
<Hobbsee|NoBatter> lol
<Laser_away> time for bed
<Laser_away> maybe I'll blog tomorrow
<welshbyte> Laser_away: good night
<Laser_away> thank goodness I'm not on planet, I'd feel so stupid
<Quinn_Storm> ok I guess the .changes file didn't include the orig.tar.gz....for some reason....so it didn't get duploaded
<Quinn_Storm> do I have to use -sa since ubuntu uses 0ubuntu1?
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: i don't think that's the issue, debuild just looks at the version string in the changelog afaik
<AnAnt> lionelp: you there ?
<Quinn_Storm> welshbyte: well yeah, that's the version string I am talking about
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: ah i see.. no, afaik the version string isn't the reason it doesn't include the original source.. i just know that -sa forces dpkg-buildpackage to include it
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: oh, i might be wrong.. just reading the man page now :)
<welshbyte> "By default, or if -si is specified, the original source will be included if the version number ends in -0 or -1, ie if the Debian revision part of the version number is 0 or 1."
<Quinn_Storm> yeah thats what I read
<Quinn_Storm> and why I asked
<Quinn_Storm> okay, I modified my script to check if the version is 0ubuntu1 and use -sa if so
<imbrandon> hrm how do i join a group on mugshot
<imbrandon> seems i only see the "follow this group"
<welshbyte> oo launchpad is back up
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: pong
<Arbiter> Arbiter: since kdocker is in NEW queue can i delete the kdocker entry from MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu?
<Arbiter> (wiki)
<Arbiter> ops
<Arbiter> s/Arbiter/Hobbsee
<Arbiter> pfff :P
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: yep
<Arbiter> done :D
<Arbiter> i'll package debian-servicemenu ;)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: yay :)
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: debian-servicemenu built ;)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
* Arbiter testing in pbuilder
<Arbiter> debian-servicemenu is in REVU ;)
<Arbiter> (just wait for refresh)
<Arbiter> if you want to review... :D
<Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2922
* Hobbsee is examining kdevelop
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: perhaps you have kmail installed?
<Arbiter> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello Arbiter
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: i do, i never use it
<Arbiter> it seems that there are menu problems...
<Arbiter> kmail menu entry is not shown anywhere :P
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: i've applied for membership for this evening's CC
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: it's shown under kontact
<Arbiter> o.O
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: note my installation is ubuntu-minimal plus kde-core and few other apps... not the whole kubuntu-desktop :P
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, cool :)
<Hobbsee> could be smart
* Hobbsee has k-d installed
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: would you be part of my 'fanclub'? :D
<Arbiter> (CC is at 6pm @ Europe/Rome)
<Gloubiboulga> 5 pm in France, right ?
<Gloubiboulga> nop, 6pm in France too :)
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I'll be there
<Arbiter> thx :)
<Arbiter> ah Gloubiboulga...
<Arbiter> would you review this package too? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2922)
<Arbiter> ^^'
<Arbiter> uhm no wait
* Arbiter just found a little problem
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, you can build a native package I think, no need to have a .orig.tar.gz since an app for debian/ubuntu only
<Gloubiboulga> since it's*
<Gloubiboulga> hmm, forget it
<Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2923
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: it should be fine now :)
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<Arbiter> "Your membership in the mailing list Motu-reviewers has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 21-Aug-2006."
<Arbiter> what the...
<Arbiter> bounces?
<Toadstool> mails that can't be delivered
<Arbiter> aw
<Arbiter> maybe my web hoster servers are down?
* Arbiter is checking..
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, the packaging is fine, but there's no license in the .sh script
<Gloubiboulga> even if the website says "GPL", there's no license in the tarball...
<Gloubiboulga> you should ping upstream and ask them to add a license in the tarball
<Arbiter> heh...
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: since there's no license (or copyright notice) i can put something like "Modified by Lorenzo Villani (Arbiter) in 2006 based on work by redclay. Licensed under GPL License v2"
<Arbiter> or not? :D
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, no...
<Gloubiboulga> you *need* a license
<Tonio_> hello
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: anyway i'm asking the upstream author
<Gloubiboulga> just mail upstream, I'm sure they can add a license in their files ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_
<azeem> W 34
<azeem> blah.
<siretart> Arbiter: even better, tell the author to actually read the GPL, and point him to the part that says 'How to apply to GPL'
<Arbiter> :)
<welshbyte> ooh we appear to have a newer version of libnautilus-burn-dev in edgy than in debian unstable
<welshbyte> things that work in sid might be broken when they get to edgy if the API has changed between the two... which it probably has
<welshbyte> Hobbsee: this might apply to bug #57199
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57199 in bonfire "Add bonfire" [Untriaged,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57199
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: ahh.  right.  true that
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: feel free to reopen/etc
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: i just figured that when it would build again, we'd auto sync from debian
<Hobbsee> er...i dont think that made senes
<welshbyte> yeah it makes sense, but i'm not sure what happens in those kind of circumstances... would we patch bonfire?
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: if we care enough, i guess we could.  patch it to work with the newer version
<welshbyte> i might give it a shot... i had to do a similar thing before because of nautilusburn API changes
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: go for it :)
<welshbyte> on second thoughts, it's probably best if i request a sync and then patch the newer broken version when that's done
* welshbyte takes a nap
<Kagou> hi hub . We have a strange problem with jhead. Official version is 2.6 but we have  package (synced from debian ) version : 2.60 What do you think about ?
<StevenK> Kagou: The previous version in Dapper is 2.44
<StevenK> Kagou: Hence the extra 0, I guess.
<Kagou> StevenK: officials version ares 2.6 2.5 and 2.4 ( http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/ )
<Kagou> so 2.44 or 2.60 are false
<StevenK> Kagou: You'd need to raise it with the Debian maintainer, though.
<Kagou> ok StevenK
<Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2925 <- should be fine as debian-servicemenu, probably this package has the same license issue
<kelmo> moin siretart
<siretart> huhu kelmo
<kelmo> siretart: mind if i dump some thoughts in a query?
<siretart> kelmo: no, just go ahead!
<tseng> Seveas: who is "Ubuntu Demon"?
<azeem> and who audits hackergotchi addtions?
<azeem> additions
<tseng> azeem: seriously.
<azeem> tseng: he's a ubuntuforum moderator
<tseng> azeem: i find it out that there are a half dozen people I've never heard of
<azeem> but neither put his real name on his wiki.u.c nor his launchpad account
<tseng> lack of easy to find real name really bugs me
<dholbach> tseng: he even ran around as "ubuntudemon" at the conference in paris
<dholbach> i can't remember his real name
<tseng> :/
<sladen> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-demon  ?
<dholbach> I suppose that's him, yes.
<sladen> dholbach:  To: Roald Hopman <ubuntu-demon@ubuntu.com>
<dholbach> Yeah, that might be his real name.
<tseng> sladen: wow you are a regular detective
<sladen> in fact, I know why it rings a bell, I signed his key yesterday
<lucas> his real name is in his GPG key
<tseng> hello, lukketto
<tseng> lucas:
<tseng> I think your blog is pretty far off
<lucas> hello tseng & all ;)
<lucas> pretty far off ?
<Arbiter> :)
<tseng> I don't connect to irc from my 20+ dapper servers
<lucas> of course
<lucas> my point is to show that edgy users are rare and all involved in ubuntu dev
<lucas> while a lot of "normal" users use debian testing/unstable
<tseng> fanboys use edgy
<tseng> "forums users"
<tseng> or something politically correct
<tseng> i guess there are more using dapper now, that we broke their spirit on breezy
<lucas> forum users should be visible in my stats if they were really using edgy
<tseng> forums users are not always irc users
<lucas> however, only 4% of the ubuntu users on #ubuntu use edgy
<tseng> doesn't really matter
<lucas> anyway, all of this is off-topic wrt my blog post
<tseng> ok :)
<lucas> my point is "many debian users use development versions (testing/unstable), while only very few ubuntu users use development versions (edgy)"
<lucas> with "many" probably means >> 50%, and "very few" < 5%
* gnomefreak always uses devel versions of ubuntu
<tseng> you're apperantly an ubuntu member
<gnomefreak> yes but even before i was
<StevenK> lucas: Your stats are skewed.
<StevenK> lucas: The only conclusion you can draw is what release people are running IRC from, not what they acually use.
<lucas> StevenK: of course they are. however, the populations I compared are about the same, and I found a huge difference between #debian and #ubuntu.
<lucas> StevenK: feel free to prove me wrong and blog about it, if you have better data. but I don't.
<StevenK> lucas: Hah, I gave up on blogging.
<StevenK> lucas: You are reading too much into your results.
<azeem> he was mostly refuting keybuk's argument
<ryanakca> while running pbuilder on a cdbs - eqonomize package, I get these errors... http://pastebin.ca/144156     debian/rules: http://pastebin.ca/144161
<StevenK> ryanakca: You're missing debhelper.
<ryanakca> in debian/control ?
<StevenK> Installed, I suspect.
<StevenK> And/or debian/control
<lucas> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/psi/+bug/50270 looks like an interesting bug to work on for somebody with some free time
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50270 in psi "The sound files' path is wrong" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<phanatic> afternoon
<Goshawk_> hi
<phanatic> hi Goshawk_
<ryanakca> I get this error http://pastebin.ca/144278 when running pbuilder on a cdbs package with these rules http://pastebin.ca/144161 .  It builds fine from ./configure make make install, but when packaged its where I get the errors... and it has to do with po/pot
<ryanakca> upstream allready included a .pot.... so can we just keep it... or do we need to have one created using the kubuntu-pot patch for admin/cvs.sh & debain/rules
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: which pacakge is it?
<ryanakca> eqonomize
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: does it have a debian/cdbs folder?
<ryanakca> a finance app for kde... dunno if it's been packaged in the week I was away... yes...
<ryanakca> I copied the debian-qt-kde.mk over from kdebase
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: seen the stuff on cdbs from the packaging guide?
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: you dont need to use a separate debian-qt-kde.mk - you can just use the kde.mk inside cdbs packages, unless you need to specifically modify it
<ryanakca> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html  ?
<Hobbsee> that's the one
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: kk... just wondering... I was following the kdebase example... this is my first cdbs package :)
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: fair enough
<ryanakca> and about the .pot problems?
<Hobbsee> i dont know - but i bet that isnt helping
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: ie, you want to have a line in your debian/rules that says include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde.mk
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: yeah... kde is fixed... main problem is .pot... can I just keep the upstream one?
* Hobbsee shrugs
<Hobbsee> i dont know
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: kk, thanks for the help :)
<ryanakca> *psst*CDBS ROCKS*psst*
<Hobbsee> indeed :)
<StevenK> s/R/SUCKS R/
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK with her long pointy stick
<StevenK> Ow!
<Hobbsee> muhahhaha :P
<zul> you and your sticks..
<ryanakca> nl debian/rules  =  2341236841987346983764928736419
<ryanakca> that's with debhelper....     nl debian/rules   =   10            (cdbs)
<Hobbsee> zul: what?  there's a problem with them?
<zul> not sharp enough
<Hobbsee> zul: true that.
* StevenK hands Hobbsee a sharper stick
* Hobbsee searches for her stick sharpener
<Toadstool> ryanakca: time to understand if you're not used to it: debhelper = 10s, cdbs = 2341236841987346983764928736419s :p
<Hobbsee> ooh, thankyou
<Toadstool> hi everybody
* Hobbsee immediately goes and attacks Toadstool with it
<Toadstool> heh
<StevenK> Toadstool: dbs = 12 * 10^24 s
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: I usually use cdbs for my own package though
<Toadstool> *packages even
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: wouldn't it be better to use the stick rather than the sharpener to attack him with?
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: smart :)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: good point.
<ryanakca> lol
* Hobbsee attacks Mithrandir repeatedly with the long pointy stick for being too clever.
<Hobbsee> nyah!
* Hobbsee ticles Mithrandir afterwarsd
<thom> i think i'm going to have to deviate from policy and agree with StevenK
* Mithrandir grabs a grenade, pulls the pin and throws it away.
<thom> cdbs blows
* ryanakca has a better weapon that a "pointy stick"... BAGPIPES!
<ryanakca> muahahaha...
<Hobbsee> hahahah
<Toadstool> :)
<Mithrandir> oops, I should haven thrown the grenade, shouldn't it?
<Mithrandir> s/it/I/?
* StevenK falls over, and then marks this date in red in his calendar.
<neutrinomass> If a program is under the GPL, but it's documentation is under the FDL, this has to be listed in 'debian/copyright'. Should I put the complete FDL text (there's nothing in /usr/share/common-licenses ) ?
* azeem notes the only time thom ever talks in here is to diss CDBS
* Hobbsee finds Mithrandir and dies bloodily all over hm.
<thom> azeem: that's not /strictly/ true :-)
<azeem> thom: yeah, there might have been a small discussion about type-handling last year...
<thom> heh
<lucas> I'm concerned by the state of the ubuntu archive. with no watching of new packages in debian, and no watching of removals from debian, it's really getting worse and worse...
<fbond> I received a report on another channel that recent xserver-xorg-core update for Dapper is broken.  Can anyone confirm?
<Hobbsee> fbond: yes, should be fixed
* Yagisan waves to Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee waves to Yagisan 
<Yagisan> TPG upgraded my connection today. Time to consider re-coniguring my network.
* Yagisan really needs to learn to type better
<Hobbsee> yay ;)
<Mez> Yagisan, something I've been striving to do for years, but it's never really worked
<Yagisan> Mez, I found the easy way to motivate myself. It's called bandwidth to test edgy, but the unwillingness to do it on my primary system
<xerxas> Hi everyone
<Mez> Yagisan: in a week or two I'll finally have internet at home! w--yt
<Yagisan> Mez, I had to upgrade because my plan was canceled :(
* Mez will have 10mbps :D
<Hobbsee> nice...
<Hobbsee> mind you, with the speeds of the repos, that wont help you much
<Mez> Hobbsee, lol - but at least I'll be able to DO things
<Hobbsee> true that
<Mez> rather than just sit here and be the silent MOTU
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee pokes Mez to DO SOME WORK!
<Hobbsee> :P
<Mez> Hobbsee, soon, I promise
<Hobbsee> Mez: :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
* cbx33 has 8Mb
<cbx33> but could 24Mb soon
<bddebian> Heya lfittl
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<Kyral_Laptop> Oh Mez you work on Katapult right?
<Mez> Kyral_Laptop, yes - #katapult
<Kyral_Laptop> mkay just wondering if you guys have anykinda reference for making new catalog things
<Mez> Kyral_Laptop, not atm no. Someones writing something on the wiki, but it seems unfinished... what klind of thing are you looking at making ?
<Kyral_Laptop> Mez: Dunno, right now I'm just trying to do a little of everything I can in the programming world
<Kyral_Laptop> (Learning RubyQt and Korundrum ATM, and I'm kinda bored lol)
<Mez> well - I'd suggest looking round the wiki, and maybe a lil on the forums
<Kyral_Laptop> ty
<Kyral_Laptop> I was kinda surprised to see you and Riddel in the credits for the program
<Mez> Kyral_Laptop, why ?
<Kyral_Laptop> Dunno lol
<Kyral_Laptop> Was just like "Hey whaddya know!"
<Mez> well - I'm managing the project, and Riddells doing some good coding
<Mez> basically the old dev didnt want to carry on - so we took it under our wing ... :D
<Mez> lol
<Kyral_Laptop> hehe
<Kyral_Laptop> Whats it written in?
<Kyral_Laptop> C?
<Mez> Kyral -though I must say - lately I havent done a good job of managing it ... but gimme a couple of weeks
<Mez> c++
<Kyral_Laptop> ah
<Kyral_Laptop> mkay I know C++ :P
<Kyral_Laptop> (Though I am LOVING Ruby ATM)
<Riddell> "some"
<Kyral_Laptop> oh hi Riddel
<Kyral_Laptop> lol
<Hobbsee> that's opposed to all the "not good coding"?
<Kyral_Laptop> Not good coding == Spagetthi Code that looks like something some caffine deprived Perl junkie spit out after 3 days w/o sleep
<Kyral_Laptop> No Offense to Perl Junkies
* Kyral_Laptop has so many small projects going on right now
<Kyral_Laptop> Anyone interested in a shell written in Ruby?
<ryanakca> whats that "example" man page? like the template for writing one...
<Kyral_Laptop> uuh
<Kyral_Laptop> You can use the ManPage I wrote for SHCD as a template if you want
<Kyral_Laptop> shcd.azuredreams.us
<Kyral_Laptop> </Shameless Plug>
<ryanakca> Kyral_Laptop: no... the code...
<Kyral_Laptop> Yah I left the manpage uncompressed in the SHCD tarball
<Kyral_Laptop> (The install routine compresses it on the fly)
<Kyral_Laptop> Oh wait
<Kyral_Laptop> TLDP!
<Kyral_Laptop> http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Man-Page/
<Kyral_Laptop> ryanakca: that link is good
<welshbyte> bddebian: ping
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: what do I add to cdbs rules for manpages?
<Hobbsee> it may get done automagically?  i dont remember
<ryanakca> s/Hobbsee/everybody
<dholbach> ryanakca:
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ grep -r MANPAGE /usr/share/cdbs/
<dholbach> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk:   dh_installman -p$(cdbs_curpkg) $(DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_$(cdbs_curpkg))
<dholbach> so that's DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_<packagename>
<azeem> or specify a debian/<packagename>.manpages
<ryanakca> dholbach: ermm... so add the line " DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_eqonomize" to debian/rules?
<\sh> moins
<hub> hi
<dholbach> ryanakca: yes ... DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_eqonomize := somepath/somefile.somextension
<ryanakca> hey \sh
<dholbach> ryanakca: you can even list multiple files
<ryanakca> ok, "DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_eqonomize := debian/eqonomize.1", thanks!
<ryanakca> sweet... cdbs IS the bestest
<dholbach> ryanakca: rock on!
<dholbach> yeah :-)
<thom> oh yes, because that's so nice
<tseng> don't tell ogra
* dholbach hugs thom
* tseng hugs thom too
<thom> hey dudes
<zul> hey thom
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: ping
* ryanakca has a knack of starting cdbs vs debhelper things
<dholbach> :-)
<Mithrandir> thom: it's much easier to put that in debian/rules rather than putting debian/eqonomize in debian/eqonomize.manpages :-P
<thom> oh utterly. and much more readable too
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, pong
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: np :)
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, ;)
* Arbiter is excited :D
<tseng> Seveas: is he ok?
<Seveas> yes
<tseng> ok :)
<ryanakca> what happens to .pot files when running dpkg -i foo-bar.deb? like, pbuilder build foo-bar.dsc, dpkg -i /var/cache/pbuilder/results/foo-bar.deb
<ryanakca> are they installed somewhere or what... what I'm trying to say, is how do I verify if they were properly created
<dholbach> cd po; intltool-update -p    to create them
<dholbach> they usually don't get installed
<dholbach> they mostly get shipped by the upstream tarball but not installed to someplace
<ryanakca> bash: intltool-update: command not found
<dholbach> install intltool
<ryanakca> ok... this is getting confusing... umm... upstream sent a .pot... how do I get cdbs to leave it be instead of deleting it when I run debuild -S -sa
<dholbach> it gets deleted?
<ryanakca> yes
<ryanakca> and I don't have anything in debian/rules about .po/.pot
<dholbach> that's really weird
<ryanakca> here... just a sec
<azeem> ryanakca: where did you put it?
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/144585
<ryanakca> azeem: put what? the upstream .po, .pot were in po/
<ryanakca> dholbach: the pastebin was debian/rules and the output of debuild showing the deletion
<dholbach> you probably won't need "DEB_PATCHDIRS := debian/patches" and "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk"
<azeem> ryanakca: it seems it is included in 01_kubuntu_kdepot.diff?
<dholbach> hum, it's part of kde.mk
<dholbach> weird
<dholbach> ryanakca: pitti just told me that most kde upstreams don't ship the .pot file and it gets generated during the build
<ryanakca> dholbach: kk... autotools... isn't that ./configure?
<dholbach> ryanakca: kde.mk includes autotools. mk on its own
<dholbach> ryanakca: it shouldn't matter if it gets deleted in the clean target, when it gets freshly rebuilt during the build
<dholbach> ryanakca: I agree that it feels a bit weird though.
<ryanakca> dholbach: so delete the po/ and add the section from the packaging guide on generating the po/?
<dholbach> ryanakca: no, just ignore that it gets deleted
<dholbach> ryanakca: it gets rebuilt automatically during the build anyway
<ryanakca> dholbach: ok... so... do I still add the section for po/ into rules?
<dholbach> which section?
<ryanakca> from the packaging guide
<dholbach> which page is that?
<dholbach> I'm not quite sure, I follow.
<ryanakca> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-kubuntu.html
<dholbach> it doesn't say anything about 'section'
<dholbach> " ... includes its own kde.mk file ... "
<dholbach> _its own_
<dholbach> that's not what you do, so you're fine
<dholbach> :)
<ryanakca> dholbach: Generating .pot file -> for cdbs, add bleh to debian/rules
<ryanakca> oh, I see
<ryanakca> lol, nevermind... sweet!
<ryanakca> all that work for nothing :)
<dholbach> talk to the author to change to      <b>its own</b>
<dholbach> :-)
* ryanakca pokes laserjock
<bluefoxicy> bug 57314
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57314 in libdv "PIC fix for libdv" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57314
<bluefoxicy> I can build a package for that, should I send the source package up to REVU or something?
<bluefoxicy> applying patch 20_no_exec_stack_CVS to ./ ... failed.
<bluefoxicy> mmm.
<bluefoxicy> guess I'll have to build it as a dpatch
<bluefoxicy> (how in the hell...)
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, could you join #ubuntu-meeting to support Arbiter ?
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Did I miss Arbiter's intro?
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, yep...
<Gloubiboulga> mako wanted to ear several testimonials, mine wasn't enough ;)
<bddebian> Gah, where's the logs? :-)
<Arbiter> :)
<Gloubiboulga> I can pastebin them :)
<bddebian> Thanks
<Gloubiboulga> http://pastebin.ca/144721
<bddebian> Thanks Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> np
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, sorry... but it's just a matter of time :)
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> thanks anyway for support Gloubiboulga and bddebian
<Arbiter> :D
<Gloubiboulga> no problem
<bddebian> Aye Arbiter, sorry.  I'll try to review your packages this week to get some more stuff under your belt
<welshbyte> bddebian: so, what should i do with this gnu-smalltalk package? :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Did you get it to work?
<welshbyte> bddebian: not 100% tested to be foolproof but the package puts things where (i believe) it should
<welshbyte> at the end lintian just warned about NMU stuff but i ignored that
<bddebian> Nice.  Can you post to REVU?
<welshbyte> bddebian: sure thing
<welshbyte> dput revu *_source.changes, right?
<Gloubiboulga> tep
<Gloubiboulga> yep*
<Arbiter> with the -f flag if you alredy uploaded the same package
* welshbyte loses his revu virginity
<bddebian> hehe
<welshbyte> hm lintian on revu seems a bit out of date... or is it configured for dapper packages?
<welshbyte> doesn't seem to know about edgy
<Gloubiboulga> revu is running breezy :)
<welshbyte> oh, yikes :)
<bddebian> Eeks
* welshbyte goes to hunt some dinner down
<Arbiter> see you tomorrow :)
<ryanakca> I get errors while packaging eqonomize with cdbs (this is during pbuidler build): http://pastebin.ca/144849
<crimsun> line 35.
<ryanakca> crimsun: hmm
<ryanakca> crimsun: fixed it... there were files left over from ./configure...
<ryanakca> can somebody look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2926 please?
<ProN00b> uhm, how do i get something into the official repos (multiverse universe, whatever) ?
<ryanakca> ProN00b: you package something, then upload it to REVU... after that you ask 2 MOTU to review it, and if it's properly packaged, it gets into the repos
<ProN00b> whats the policy for updates ?
<ryanakca> policy for updates...??
<ProN00b> i mean when does it have to get updated, can i update it, do i have to update it ?
<ryanakca> sorry, I don't get your question... when a new version of the app comes out or ???
<ProN00b> if i do what you said, and a new version of the app comes out, can i have the package updated ?
<ryanakca> ProN00b: I beleive so, but you'd have to go threw REVU again
<ProN00b> "go threw REVU again" sounds kinda bad to me, is it hard ?
<crimsun> no, it just requires work on the submitters' part
<crimsun> there are only a few of us who actively review stuff on REVU
<ProN00b> crimsun, somehow the app i was looking for had their own repos, what are the reasons for such not to be imported into the official ones, or do they have to be submitted file by file ?
<lfittl> ProN00b: whats the name of this app?
<crimsun> ProN00b: teams have various reasons for using their own external repositories; the ability to manage their own updates is a considerable advantage.
<ProN00b> lfittl, beep media player x (bmpx for short)
<crimsun> bmpx is on revu iirc; nexu is working on it.
<crimsun> I (among others) helped him with the packaging earlier
<hub_> pushing hugin 0.6.1 to universe
<ryanakca> crimsun: you busy or could you help me murder my sound problem :)
<ProN00b> so i will be able to find it in the near future ?
<ProN00b> that'd be grand
<crimsun> ryanakca: I'm very busy attempting to multitask, but you can ask in +1, and I'll attempt to address it
<crimsun> ProN00b: meaning in the Ubuntu repo? Possibly.
<ryanakca> crimsun: I think  you should take a holiday... you'll burn yourself out
<crimsun> (regardless I doubt nexu is going to cease packaging the svn snaps)
<ProN00b> crimsun, dare to do any wague time estimation ? ^^
<crimsun> ryanakca: that's only a side effect of doing lots of things, not "working too hard".
<crimsun> ProN00b: six months after you stop asking.
<ryanakca> lol
<ProN00b> ok ^___^
<ryanakca> ProN00b: why don't you just download the source and build it yourself with checkinstall, that way uninstall is a breeze when the ubuntu package comes out?
<ProN00b> dunno, doesn't feel right to me in the age of packages
<crimsun> nexu provides decent Ubuntu debs on his repo
<crimsun> I personally don't believe we'll be including the svn snaps, but 0.2x certain seems feasible
<crimsun> +ly
<ProN00b> ya, svn isn't really desirable anyways
<ProN00b> crimsun, where are nexus repos ?
<crimsun> ProN00b: it's listed in the topic of #bmpx iirc
<ProN00b> nope
<ProN00b> but as i said it has ubuntu repos, but they have their own libs that replace ubuntu libs and that sucks
<nzk> Are there any #ubuntu ops here?
<ProN00b> btw, congrats on the x-org fckup ^_^
<nzk> That screwup ruined 2 (!!!) installs
<crimsun> ProN00b: it's already reverted, and we don't manage main packages here in -motu.
<nzk> Anyway are there any #ubuntu ops here or anyone that can talk to an #ubuntu op?
<crimsun> I'd like to suggest, for everyone's sanity, that you keep the X.Org "fuckup" talk to your own beds and not in here, thanks.
<ProN00b> xD
<crimsun> nzk: quite possibly, why would this channel be relevant?
<slomo> crimsun: any progress with my ymfpci breakage? :)
<nzk> I happen to have gotten myself banned for a reason I dont know exactly when I was about to proceed with my Ubuntu install, crimsun
<crimsun> slomo: sorry, first week of school and all, so no. Haven't had time to attempt to reproduce it on a local machine.
<nzk> And being a linux newbie, I have a couple thousand questions
<slomo> crimsun: ok, np :) will you time for it in the near future or shall i ask someone else?
<crimsun> slomo: I'll push your bug upstream this afternoon (within a couple hours). Takashi will poke you.
<slomo> cool thanks :)
<crimsun> Sorry, it's just an extremely hectic period
<slomo> don't worry, i know such times :)
<nzk> crimsun: please?
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't suppose you have looked at {wx}maxima recently?
<nzk> crimsun: pleaseee?
<crimsun> LaserJock: see above comment regarding "hectic".
<crimsun> nzk: PLEASE wait a few minutes.
<nzk> Ok :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: no problemo just wanted to see if anybody had worked recently before I attempt to charg in
<crimsun> LaserJock: by all means, go for it
<LaserJock> people are getting frantic on Malone and this thing really does need to get fixed
<nzk> crimsun: how much longer?
<ryanakca> nzk: he's going to end up ignoring you indefinitly... wait, and when he gets a chance, he'll talk to you
<nzk> Sorry
<nzk> I'll be patient
<LaserJock> nzk: what's your problem?
<welshbyte> was i supposed to have received an email after uploading a package to revu?
<LaserJock> nope
<crimsun> nzk: this channel definitely is the wrong place to discuss bans. What IP were you using previously?
<nzk> The ban is like *myhost
<nzk> Everyone using PPPOE in Moscow got banned from #ubuntu
<crimsun> yes, I see the numeric ban
<LaserJock> nzk: there is an #ubuntu-ops channell for that sort of thing
<crimsun> it's actually a very specific ipv4
<ryanakca> can someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2926 please?
<Noumaan> There are some Urdu fonts that I think must come with default Ubuntu Installation. But I am not sure whether they should come with Universe or default installation
<crimsun> you answered your own question.
<crimsun> if they come by default they cannot, by definition, be in universe.
<Noumaan> exactly
<Noumaan> how do I know that the license the come with makes them ok to be in default installation?
<micahcowan> If it can be in universe, it should be able to be in main, aiui: all universe packages must be free.
<Noumaan> http://www.crulp.org/nafeesWebNaskh.html the font and the license is located here
<Noumaan> It is definitely the most commonly and widely used font for Urdu Web pages after Urdu Naskh Asiatype which is owned by BBC Urdu.
<micahcowan> The license looks pretty free, but ignore me, as ianal.
<micahcowan> Looks somewhat BSD-ish.
<Noumaan> micahcowan: so what would you suggest me to do?
<micahcowan> wait for a more authoritative response than my gibberish? :)
<Noumaan> micahcowan:  does that mean I should keep repeating myself?
<micahcowan> No, probably just wait for someone to read what you've already written.
<Noumaan> ok but for how long I should wait for someone to read this before trying something else?
<micahcowan> But, I think the issue wouldn't be main vs universe, so much as main/universe versus restricted/multiverse.
<micahcowan> at least 5-10 minutes. People sometimes check this spot sporadically.
<micahcowan> If you don't get an answer, I'd post to the mailing list.
<Noumaan> micahcowan: we are free to distribute this font so I guess it should be available in Main
<micahcowan> Not only that, but we are free to modify it, provided we change the name. That seems pretty durn free. If it should be available on default install, then yeah, it should probably go in main.
<micahcowan> But if it were decided to be an un-free license, you couldn't have it in universe either (according to my understanding).
<Noumaan> micahcowan:  I am quite excited you know currently we dont have any decent font for Urdu in Ubuntu
<Noumaan> It will be great to have it available out of box usability I mean isnt this great?
<micahcowan> Oop: the "can't sell by itself" clause could make it considered unfree (even though it wouldn't pose a practical problem)... I know RMS would consider that non-free, dunno about debian/ubuntu.
<Noumaan> micahcowan: we can rename it to Ubuntu-Web-Naskh
<ryanakca> micahcowan: well... we aren't exactly selling it, are we?
<Noumaan> the word Nafees is copyrighted
<Noumaan> or the Ubuntu-Urdu-Naskh Naskh is the word for font in Urdu
<ryanakca> you can copyright words? since when?
<micahcowan> According to the license, we don't need to rename it, provided that we do not modify it. Many, many things are copyrighted that are in Ubuntu (but I think you meant trademarked, for which that statement is true).
<Noumaan> ryanakca: no I mean Nafees is the product name here
<ryanakca> Noumaan: oh, ok
<Noumaan> So we can add it as it is renaming it to Ubuntu-Urdu-Naskh available by default :)
<micahcowan> This might be more an issue for the ubuntu-legal (?) mailing list.
<Noumaan> micahcowan:  I dont think so since we are already allowed to distribute the font
<Noumaan> ""The Font Software may be modified, altered, or added  to, and in particular the designs of glyphs or characters in the Fonts may be  modified and additional glyphs or characters may be added to the Fonts, only if  the font is renamed to names not containing either the words Nafees or the  word CRULP.""
<micahcowan> Noumaan, that's not the only issue. Obviously, we are already allowed to distribute virtually anything that exists in the restricted or multiverse repositories as well. That doesn't make them Free.
<Noumaan> micahcowan:  hmmm
<ryanakca> can someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2926 please?
<micahcowan> ryanakca, if you don't get a motu's attention, you might try the mailing list.
<Noumaan> ryanakca: i am there what you want me to look at?
<ryanakca> Noumaan: are you a MOTU?
<Noumaan> ryanakca: No
<micahcowan> Noumaan, I think he specifically wants the attention of someone empowered to approve the package/move the review process along :)
<ryanakca> Noumaan: nevermind :)  I'm looking for a motu who can review my package
<Noumaan> ok I am sorry I thought he has uploaded the urdu font :(
<asimon> ryanakca: I am no MOTU either, but you don't need to set those DEB_ vars in your rules file. The dir and suffix are standard and should be automatiically detected.
<ryanakca> asimon: well, the DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_eqonomize := debian/eqonomize.1      is required, isn't it? otherwise my man page doesn't get installed...
<asimon> ryanakca: Yes, but for man pages, but in this rules file I only see DEB_PATCHDIRS and DEB_PATCH_SUFFIX
<asimon> ryanakca: Ah, I looked at the old version
<ryanakca> asimon: lol
<asimon> ryanakca: You also don't need to include both kde.mk and autotools.mk. kde.mk is enough because it includes autotools.mk by itself. In the control file you can delete libqt-mt-dev, it's already a dependency of kdelibs4-dev
<ryanakca> asimon: get rid of DEB_PATCH* ?
<asimon> ryanakca: Yes, if you look into simple-patchsys.mk, DEB_PATCHDIRS gets already set to debian/patches if you don't set it to something otherwise. AndDEB_PATCH_SUFFIX by default includes .diff already.
<ryanakca> kk
<Noumaan> micahcowan: I have been asked by a community member to join the devel maling list and write there
<micahcowan> sounds like a good idea, Noumaan. See you on the list. :-)
<Noumaan> :)
<welshbyte> hm, revu is meant to give me an encrypted message to decrypt in order to find my password but there's nothing after it says "Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>"
<asimon> welshbyte: Yes, that's currently broken. I don't have a password too. But the admins know about it.
<welshbyte> oh ok, good good
<ryanakca> asimon: and do I need the "man" line?
<asimon> ryanakca: Yes
<asimon> ryanakca: At least I think so ;-)
<lfittl> anybody interested in taking a quick look at libgrapple (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2930)? (also non-MOTUs, reviews help with finding problems ;))
<micahcowan> lfittl, did you notice the lintian complaint about src/.#socket.c.1.33?
<lfittl> micahcowan: I can't fix that, this has to be fixed in the source tarball, which means upstream, and I will send mail to upstream about it, will go away with their next release
<micahcowan> lfittl, I wondered.
<lfittl> bddebian: ping, do you have time to review something for me? :)
<raphink> wb LaserJock
<bddebian> lfittl: I can when I get home
<lfittl> bddebian: perfect, thanks :)
<asimon> Weren't there once so called 'review days'?
<LaserJock> yes
<lfittl> asimon: yep, but its simply too much stuff on REVU to get it done in one day (especially if not all MOTUs are doing reviews)
<asimon> I understand.
<raphink> lfittl: simple contributors are welcome to review packages and send their comments by email to MOTUs
<raphink> I encourage it
<raphink> (personally, but I think I'm not the only one)
<lfittl> raphink: sure, I know, but considering that I will hopefully be a MOTU after the next TB meeting, it is better to wait and do more packaging ;)
<raphink> ok
<lfittl> raphink: I also think when REVU2 comes sometime, we might get more people interested in doing reviews
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> not sure no
<raphink> although I would hope so
<raphink> wow you've been busy on packages
<raphink> just checking your LP page
<raphink> ;)
<lfittl> :)
<raphink> what are all these .app packages?
<raphink> never saw them
<lfittl> gnustep packages
<asimon> gnustep is still alive? ;-)
<lfittl> these were just rebuilds, thats why there are so many
<raphink> oh ic
<lfittl> raphink: I have 7-8 other new packages laying around here, just have to clean them up and get reviews :)
<raphink> ok :)
<lfittl> raphink: do you have some time for a quick look at libgrapple? :)
<raphink> no
<raphink> I should go to bed
<raphink> I don't sleep enough lately :s
<lfittl> ah, I know that too well, should go to bed too..
<raphink> hehe
<lfittl> but there is always stuff that you just want to have finished before doing so ;)
<raphink> hehe yes
<raphink> but there are so many things I want to have finished
<raphink> I also need someone to check a package on REVU before I upload it
<lfittl> exactly, you should see my todo list :D
<raphink> I don' tdo todo lists anymore
<raphink> I just hope that the things I will remember are the ones I need to do
<raphink> lol
<lfittl> hehe
<lfittl> anyway, will simply go to bed, package should be fine, and there is no importance in uploading it
<lfittl> gn8 everybody
<raphink> night
<micahcowan> is there a package similar to build-essential, that depends on build-essential plus all the development docs like manpages-dev, glibc-doc and gcc-doc, etc?
<azeem> micahcowan: not that I know of
<micahcowan> alright: if I'm liable to want those three things, what else might I be missing that I might desire?
<azeem> autoconf-doc etc. maybe
<geser> hello
<geser> i'm currently looking at mail-notification because of the libgail soname change
<geser> a rebuild would fix it but there is also a newer debian package
<geser> the diff between the debian versions mentions three changes
<geser> one change is only listed in the changelog
<geser> one change changes a build-depends but it should be reverted for ubuntu as we don't have the new build-depends
<geser> and the third change mentions a duplicate depends on evolution
<geser> but the ubuntu package has no duplicate depends on evolution and without it the package doesn't depend on evolution anymore
<geser> should the package still be merge or is a rebuild sufficient?
<Amaranth_> \sh_away: compile wine with -fno-stack-protector
<Amaranth_> \sh_away: (if you didn't already find a fix)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-23
<LaserJock> ah, nifty
<LaserJock> I added a source package search engine to opera
<LaserJock> that's nice
<ryanakca> can someone look at this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2933 please?
<crimsun> looks fine initially
<crimsun> I can do a more thorough review in several hours.
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<LaserJock> pheww, I finally got one complete IRC log from the MOTU School session on the wiki
* Burgundavia goes to crash the wiki before LaserJock saves
<LaserJock> heh, I saved it before I said that, just in case ;-)
<ryanakca> drats
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> anybody else want to review eqonomize?
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> bye bddebian :-)
<LaserJock> bbl
<bddebian> Doh, bye
<welshbyte> ello bddebian
<welshbyte> bddebian: i'm mentioning you in a blog.. got a site/blog i could link to?
<bddebian> What, are you doing a morons of Ubuntu page? :-)
<welshbyte> nah, just rambling about my first experiences of ubuntu packaging, man page writing and stuff ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<welshbyte> oh, and when you have a spare minute.. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2927
<crimsun> (hah, these motu celebrities!)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Aye, I'm working on some reviews now, so I'll take a look
<bddebian> crimsun: But none of us can touch you :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: thanks :)
<ajmitch> crimsun: why, back in our day there were no celebrities..
<crimsun> bddebian: hah, I'm no celebrity.
<crimsun> ajmitch: :)
<tseng> the only celeb here is dholbach
* bddebian makes a CrimsunIsTheOneTrueGod wikpage
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> great, the entire muslim community just switched away from ubuntu
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure someone will proclaim you a blasphemer since BdDebianIsAGod is already in Google's cache
* tseng downloads Christian Ubuntu
* tseng heads to the data center
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Well you will probably all be happy to know that I might be disappearing again for a while
<bddebian> vas is los? W: libgrapple-1.0-0; The library libgrapple is not in a shlibs file.
<ajmitch> bddebian: why are you leaving us?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because I bug you all?
<ajmitch> oh right
<bddebian>  :-)  j/k.  I'm not sure yet but work is going to pick up significantly until about November
<crimsun> understandable.
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch is working a few days a week, starting from today
<bddebian> So like everything else, I know little about libraries.  What does that linda error mean?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nice
<ajmitch> you must have the shlibs file in the final package
<bddebian> What does that mean?
<ajmitch> see the library packaging guide
<bddebian> Gah
* ajmitch doesn't have time to explain, is trying to track down bugs in php app :)
<bddebian> OK
<welshbyte> shouldn't add to your celebrity much, i expect the only person who reads my blog is my mother ;)
<bddebian> Is there a library packaging guide as part of LaserJocks stuff?
<bddebian> welshbyte: Believe me, I'm no celebrity
<welshbyte> i know i know
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, just the debian library packaging guide
<ajmitch> first google hit
<welshbyte> more of a deity
<bddebian> welshbyte: Oh man, not you too
<welshbyte> hehe
* bddebian decides NOT to look at gnu-smalltalk
<bddebian> Hmm, dh_makshlibs should cover it?
<bddebian> Err makeshlibs
<ryanakca> bddebian: ummm.... when you get a chance, can you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2933 please?
<bddebian> Oh, no, he has that.  Hmm
<bddebian> Is it maybe running for the wrong package?  I.E., should it be dh_makeshlibs -pfoo ?
<ajmitch> possibly
<ajmitch> or with the wrong options
<ajmitch> or it could be done with debian/libfoo.shlibs
<bddebian> OK, thx
<bddebian> ryanakca: I'll take a look
<ryanakca> bddebian: thanks :)
<bddebian> So if I'm such a "God", why can't I figure out this pygobject crap? :'-(
<slomo> bddebian: what's wrong with it?
<welshbyte> it's a theological anomaly
<bddebian> haha
<bddebian> slomo: I'm not even sure it's it yet but bug #57182
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57182 in pygobject "Problem importing codegen from desextras" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57182
<bddebian> welshbyte: Couple of things but overall looks good
<welshbyte> bddebian: cool, cheers
* welshbyte gets fixing
<bddebian> ryanakca: Gonna go have a cigarette, then you're next :-)
<ryanakca> bddebian: kk
* ryanakca does the "wikiissuperslow" dance
<hub> ryanakca: dance more
<ryanakca> lol, yes
<bddebian> In Python whats the difference between sys.path.insert and sys.path.append?
<ajmitch> where it gets placed in the sys.path list
<ajmitch> which is checked in order
<bddebian> insert at beginning, append at end?
<ajmitch> insert takes a position to place the item
<ryanakca> brb, log in log out... see if kde works again...
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thx.  How does it get the path?  In this case it is doing sys.path.append(0, 'codegen').  How does it know where codegen is?
<ajmitch> append or insert?
<bddebian> Should changelog entry on initial packaging include any patches added?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Sorry, insert
<ajmitch> bddebian: so 'codegen' gets stuck as the first entry
<ajmitch> changelog should
<bddebian> ajmitch: I got that part but how does it "find" codegen?
<ryanakca> bddebian: g'night... It's late and I'm going to bed, See you some time tommorow and I'll look at the revu page for comments
<ajmitch> bddebian: codegen will be a directory, it'll look there
<bddebian> ryanakca: OK, gnight
<bddebian> ajmitch: So it shouldn't be a full path instead? Like sys.path.insert(0, '/usr/share/pygtk/2.0/codegen') ?
<bddebian> Uh oh, I've overblown my question quota again, huh? :)
<welshbyte> at least you're reading python and not this silly m4 stuff ;)
<Quinn_Storm> ugh...m4...why in the world did they choose m4 for autotools?
<welshbyte> hello Quinn_Storm
<Quinn_Storm> greetings
<bddebian> Hello Quinn_Storm
<bddebian> welshbyte: Hey, I have a great one for you next.. ;-P
<welshbyte> i swear autotools was created to give me headaches
<welshbyte> bddebian: bring it on :P
<bddebian> welshbyte: http://www.typo3.org  Needs the latest packaged ;-P
<welshbyte> bddebian: would it be bad if i ignored that libdir warning from linda? it seems the 2.1.8 package ignored it
<welshbyte> oh no, not a web app! :/
<bddebian> welshbyte: Yeah and an ugly package at that. :-)
<bddebian> welshbyte: If it's valid you can probably do a lintian-override for it but you might want some other input.  There is a lot I don't know :-(
<welshbyte> well it seems valid, the file says /lib but it's in /usr/lib although i don't know how it works or what uses it
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<welshbyte> ello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hey welshbyte
<Hobbsee> what's new?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Struggling through a python thing.  You?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: having trouble typing in the root password :P  i just got up
<Hobbsee> well, user password, ie sudo
<Hobbsee> bddebian: what kind of python thing?
* welshbyte ponders doing something silly, like learning about libtool
<bddebian> Is getting the path to codegen by doing foo = getoutput('pkg-config --variable codegendir pygtk-2.0') considered "OK"?
<bddebian> welshbyte: What, are you nuts? :-)
<welshbyte>  /nick brazil_pecan_cashew
<Hobbsee> holy cow.  74 new emails overnight.
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: must have been busy, it looks like!
* bddebian pokes welshbyte
<welshbyte> ouch
<Hobbsee> and none of them are spam either :P
<welshbyte> awesome, looks like i can ignore linda :)
<welshbyte> i like learning new things
<Quinn_Storm> hmm, looks like compiz is about ready ^-^, no more shlibdeps, proper revisions, no more goofy custom gconf stuff...broken out into compiz-core, compiz-plugins...build-deps and deps should be good
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: awesome :)
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: usually not a good idea to ignore linda, depending on what it is
* Quinn_Storm eventually needs to write at least dummy man pages for the various compiz binaries
<bluefoxicy> linda needs to be updated on revu
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: true that.  StevenK's working on it.  in fact, i thought he sent a copy
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: oh, that's right.  StevenK was having trouble getting the latest version to install on breezy.
<welshbyte> "W: gnu-smalltalk; The .la file /usr/lib/gnu-smalltalk/libc.la contains a libdir which is different to its path."  but libc.la says that libc.so.6 is in /lib and lo and behold, it is
<bluefoxicy> can't he down revu for 6 hours to image it into a virtual machine
<bluefoxicy> and then attempt to upgrade to dapper
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: ask siretart that, he's the one who controls it (i think)
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: do we ship .la files anyway now?  i think not.
<bluefoxicy> (notice the CRITICAL part of this suggestion involving still retaining the old working copy-- in case you fuck it up)
<Hobbsee> bah.  who needs revu anyway :P
* bddebian does the summon crimsun dance
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Hobbsee> hehe
<welshbyte> Hobbsee: oh... you know something i don't
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: i think they're gone, yeah
<welshbyte> great, so i can just remove it in debian/rules
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee and bddebian
<crimsun> bddebian: btw, unless you preface the sentence with my nick followed by either a comma or a colon, irssi doesn't highlight.
<bddebian> Doh
<crimsun> welshbyte: no, libtool archives are not supposed to be shipped.
<LaserJock> hmm, you need some better highlighting then crimsun ;-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: I consider it sanity-checking, else I'd never get any work done
<welshbyte> crimsun: thanks... how about .a files?
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh and here I thought you were just good at ignoring me ;-P
<crimsun> welshbyte: yes, those are definitely shipped in -dev
<crimsun> not doing so would break just about everything that passes -lfoo ;)
<welshbyte> hm, gnu-smalltalk ships a /usr/lib/libgst.la and a /usr/lib/libgst.a at the moment
<crimsun> remove the former prior to building the deb
<welshbyte> will do
<bddebian> crimsun: I don't suppose you have time to help me with this pygobject thing?
<crimsun> I'd love to, but that requires significant resources, and honestly I'm about to nod off
<bddebian> OK, thx anyway
<bddebian> Heya carthik
<carthik> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Should this just work or am I missing something?
<bddebian> >>> import os
<bddebian> >>> import sys
<bddebian> >>> sys.path.insert(0, 'codegen')
<bddebian> >>> from codegen import register_types
<bddebian> Traceback (most recent call last):
<bddebian>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<bddebian> ImportError: No module named codegen
<welshbyte> bddebian: where is the 'codegen' directory that you're inserting into the path?
<lifeless> bddebian: changing the python path is usually not needed
<bddebian> welshbyte: Dunno, that's what I'm trying to figure out
<lifeless> bddebian: its ugly, error prone etc.
<lifeless> bddebian: what are you trying to do ?
<bddebian> This is what dsextras.py from pyobjects does
<welshbyte> weird
<lifeless> does it have a subdir 'codegen' with a subdir 'codegen' with a file '__init__.py' ?
<bddebian> I don't see one
<lifeless> then it wont work
<bddebian> It doesn't ;-P
<lifeless> is there a codegen subdir
<lifeless> ?
<bddebian> Where?
<bddebian> From where dsextras.py is?
<lifeless> I guess, though knowningcwd is probably more important
<bddebian> Now this does work:
<bddebian> >>> sys.path.insert(0, '/usr/share/pygtk/2.0/codegen')
<bddebian> >>> from codegen import register_types
<bddebian> >>>
<lifeless> seriously wrong
<welshbyte> i expect you only really need /usr/share/pygtk/2.0 to be in the path to import codegen from it
<lifeless> welshbyte: nah, bet you uit has a subdir
<welshbyte> heh, that would be typical
<bddebian> Well here is the comment from dsextras.py from pyobjects:
<bddebian>         # We must insert it first, otherwise python will try '.' first,
<bddebian>         # in which it exist a "bogus" codegen (the third import line
<bddebian>         # here will fail)
<bddebian>         sys.path.insert(0, '/usr/share/pygtk/2.0/codegen')
<bddebian> But I don't see an "extra" codegen dir anywhere
<lifeless> this is either bogus code, or a bogus developer, or something
<lifeless> crufty as
<bddebian> I don't think so, it's seb128.  But I don't think he agrees with me
<welshbyte> right lets see if this thing builds with tcl8.4
<bddebian> go welshbyte, go welshbyte ;-)
<welshbyte> seems to have worked :)
<LaserJock> hmm, what has happend to edgy's sudo lately
* LaserJock goes on the hunt
<LaserJock> hmm, so how do I tell sudo to keep my PATH
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you know ^^ ?
<bddebian> For su, I know it was su - but I don't know for sudo, sorry :-(
<LaserJock> it hasn't bugged you yet?
<bddebian> Everything bugs me :-)
<LaserJock> well, I have my pbuilder scripts in ~/bin/
<LaserJock> and today I noticed that I could no longer do sudo pbuilder-edgy
<bddebian> Doh
<LaserJock> I had to give it the full path
* Hobbsee notes that she doesnt have to use sudo, with the scripts in /usr/local/bin...
<LaserJock> hmm?
<LaserJock> pbuilder is run with sudo, right?
<LaserJock> oh, silly me
<LaserJock> my ~/bin scripts start with sudo, I don't need to call them with sudo
<LaserJock> doh
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> I've been doing too much pbuilder howto writing
<LaserJock> where you do sudo pbuilder directly
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ cat /usr/local/bin/edgybuild
<Hobbsee> #!/bin/bash
<Hobbsee> pdebuild --buildresult ../ --configfile /home/sarah/pbuilder/edgy/pbuilderrc --auto-debsign --debsign-k 7D2BCE85
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ^
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: so not exactly needing to sudo it
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<welshbyte> doesn't it get confusing having a computer with the same name as you? :)
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: not really
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: why would it?
<Hobbsee> i'm the only one who uses this machine
<LaserJock> heh, well mine are all familiar terms for me
<LaserJock> photon, electron, proton, etc. ;-)
<welshbyte> oh just wondered
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: and i'm incredibly shocking in naming things
<LaserJock> I'm supprised it's not sarah@Hobbsee :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hehe.  i dont use hobbsee much in RL - like, i answer to it, but people usually call me sarah
<welshbyte> Hobbsee: oh i know what you mean, i have a hard time naming stuff too. i just got lucky when i fell upon the naming scheme for my computers :)
<Hobbsee> of course, in RL, it's obvious that i'm female anyway, so there's no point in not disclosing the nme
<Hobbsee> *name
<LaserJock> true
<welshbyte> oops, just noticed i was still set as away
<bddebian> Speaking of which, I have got to get my arse to bed.  Gnight folks
<welshbyte> bddebian: g'night
<bddebian> welshbyte: Are you going to re-upload gnu-smalltalk?
<welshbyte> bddebian: just done it
<bddebian> Sweet, I'll check it in the morning.  Thanks again!
<welshbyte> cheers :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: did you merge maxima?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i probably didnt need to, but yeah
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> thanks
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: not a problem :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: unfortunately, the machine i like building on is awol at the moment
<LaserJock> I wish the GUI worked but that's my problem
<Hobbsee> true
<LaserJock> I got almost 10 bug emails about that today
<LaserJock> I guess that's how fixes get done
<LaserJock> pester the devs with emails until they can't stand it anymore ;-)
<jsgotangco> wha? the great LaserJock is not aware of the procedure? heh
<LaserJock> oh, I am
<LaserJock> I'm just not used to being on the recieving end so much :-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> that last xorg-core update had tons of bugs
<LaserJock> lol, poor rodrigo
<LaserJock> I feel bad for him
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah...i'd hate to be him right now
<LaserJock> well, the thing is I don't think he signed on to do X maintaining
<LaserJock> he is Edubuntu technical lead
* welshbyte nods in the direction of the X maintainer job listed in the ubuntu employment pages
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> at least rodrigo has the guts to take on X for a while
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: good point that
<LaserJock> either that or being the newest employee made him draw the short straw
<Hobbsee> heh
<crimsun> hopefully he has been getting help from everyone.
<crimsun> I know Andrew and I have been rejecting and marking duplicates of 57153 since early yesterday
<LaserJock> yeah
<Hobbsee> crimsun: wish the bugtracker had gone down during that time, rather than a few hours ealrier :P
<LaserJock> heh
<jsgotangco> well rodrigo had the X experience with conectiva
<Arbiter> i need a REVU admin
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: pong.  i'm not a revu admin though
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: i know :)
<Arbiter> would you review 3 packages? :D
<Arbiter> debian-servicemenu attach-to-email-servicemenu kcmpureftpd :)
<Hobbsee> wow, you've been busy
<Arbiter> note: *-servicemenu have licensing issues
<Arbiter> (the websites say that are licensed under GPL license but no license file or GPL comment in files are provided)
<Arbiter> (nor a copyright notice)
<Arbiter> i asked upstream to include those details for the next release of the packages
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: anyway... links are http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2935 (kcmpureftpd) - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2925 (attach-to-email-servicemenu) - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2923 (debian-servicemenu)
<Arbiter> :)
* Hobbsee is now playing with amarok :)
<Hobbsee> yay for ssh
<Arbiter> all tested in edgy pbuilder and installed on my local machine
<Arbiter> and everything seems to work :)
<Sp4rKy> hey
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/+builds/vernadsky (4th line) <-- yes! :D
<Hobbsee>  Arbiter nice :)
<Arbiter> slomo: ping
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: where i can post some kubuntu artwork proposals?
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: um.  on the wiki.  there i s apage :P
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: wrong. there is more than one page on the wiki :-)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: nyah :P
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: looks good
* Arbiter makes his post
<Arbiter> heya Gloubiboulga
<Arbiter> :D
<Gloubiboulga> hello arbiter :)
<Arbiter> i'll be back soon
<Arbiter> ah Gloubiboulga could you review this? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2935 (kcmpureftpd)
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, not now, but I'm adding it on my TODO list
<Arbiter> thanks a lot
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> i've uploaded also attach-to-email-servicemenu but it has the same license issue as debian-servicemenu
<Arbiter> grrr
<Arbiter> :P
<Toadstool> good morning
<Goshawk> how can i obtain my password in REVU? the lostpw.py script seems to don't work with me
<Gloubiboulga> Goshawk, have you already uploaded a package on REVU ?
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: sure, it's splashy
<Gloubiboulga> ok, then you should be able to recover your password...
<Gloubiboulga> you need to ping a REVU admin
<Goshawk> Gloubiboulga: yep i'm but when i should encrypt mesage with gpg
<Goshawk> there is no text to encrypt/decript in the html page
<Gloubiboulga> sounds like a bug
<Toadstool> hmm I think siretart told something about a broken pw_recover.py or something like that a while ago
<Goshawk> yep i talked with sirestart, but i've not my password
<Goshawk> so i can comment on REVU
<Toadstool> Goshawk: do you know that splashy is already packaged in Debian Sid?
<Goshawk> Toadstool: sure i know
<Toadstool> uhuh
<Toadstool> forget about that :p
<Goshawk> but it's not in ubuntu
<Goshawk> Toadstool: i'm one of the developers and i know the debian maintainer
<Toadstool> ok
<Toadstool> you should file a bug asking for a sync, and poke a MOTU here to confirm it
<phanatic> morning :)
<Toadstool> heya phanatic
<phanatic> hey Toadstool
<phanatic> ajmitch: thanks for your review, i'll upload a new package soonish
<Toadstool> Goshawk: I may not be very well awoken, I didn't notice the changes in the B-Deps... sorry
<Toadstool> Goshawk: you should list that kind of changes in the changelog imho
<Goshawk> Toadstool: ok. so i should repackage it
<Toadstool> and you shouldn't change the "This package was debianized by" line
<Toadstool> repackage it?
<Goshawk> and... if we want a fully integration in ubuntu, there are some things to change
<Goshawk> Toadstool: repackage or create a new ubuntu version ubuntu1 ---> ubuntu2
<Goshawk> Toadstool: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/56882
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56882 in lsb "/etc/lsb-base-logging.sh should be in usplash package" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<Goshawk> that fiel in in usplash in debian, in ubuntu it's in lsb-base
<Toadstool> Goshawk: just apply your modifications to ubuntu1 and reupload it to REVU as ubuntu1
<Goshawk> Toadstool: ah so i don't need to put anotehr version, REVU gets the lastest package
<Toadstool> yep
<Goshawk> can i confirm that bug?
<Toadstool> Goshawk: confirming one's own bugs is generally speaking not a good idea but I think you can with this one :)
<Goshawk> Toadstool: i'm configming it because it's there from some dys without attenctions
<phanatic> could anybody have a look at this please: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2936
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> phanatic: not orig.tar.gz but theres a diff
<phanatic> imbrandon: what's the problem?
<imbrandon> there is no orig.tar.gz
<phanatic> oh
<phanatic> dput didn't put it :)
<imbrandon> did you build with debuild -S -sa ?
<phanatic> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S
<phanatic> should be the same
<phanatic> :)
<azeem> except for the -sa
<azeem> which is the crucial point here
<phanatic> yay
<phanatic> i got the point
<imbrandon> also did you read ajmitch comment about it shouldnt be versiond natively ?
<phanatic> yeah, forgot to change the revision number :/
<phanatic> in debian/changelog
<phanatic> will upload soon
<Arbiter> any reviewer around?
<Arbiter> if yes could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2935 (kcmpureftpd) thanks :)
<phanatic> could someone delete olive? it got stuck :( got a 553 response...
<phanatic> Uploading via ftp olive_0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of olive_0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<phanatic> :)
<Arbiter> heya cbx33
<siretart> slomo: http://incoming.debian.org/ffmpeg_0.cvs20060823-1.dsc
<slomo> siretart: cool :) will you care for it or shall i?
<cbx33> Hi Arbiter
<cbx33> howz it goin
<siretart> slomo: I'm busy today, if you have time, please do it
<siretart> slomo: sam just told me on #debian-devel
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format
<Sp4rKy> what must i do
<Sp4rKy> i've a changelog.in
<azeem> Sp4rKy: why do you have a changelog.in?
<Sp4rKy> azeem, because the source was already debiannized
<azeem> that's not a reason
<Sp4rKy> so i've recreated debian/
<azeem> remove the debian/ then, and or patch it properly in the .diff.gz
<Sp4rKy> so i have to patch the configure
<Sp4rKy> for it don't look at debain/changelog.in ?
<azeem> why should it look at changelog.in?
<Sp4rKy> because it create debian/changelog from debian/changelog.in
<azeem> what is "it"?
<Sp4rKy> configure
<azeem> why does configure muck around with debian/changelog?
<slomo> siretart: i'll try to get it updated later :)
<Sp4rKy> i don't know why, but configure create changelog from changelog.in
<siretart> slomo: sync or merge?
<Mithrandir> Sp4rKy: make configure stop doing that.  It sounds like upstream is doing seriously wrong things.
<slomo> siretart: merge... we need at least the epoch again ;)
<siretart> slomo: I see
<Arbiter> slomo: do you have some free time? :D
<slomo> Arbiter: not really... why?
<Sp4rKy> Mithrandir, i've already talked with upstream, but they doesn't wan't change anything (it's enlightenment)
<Arbiter> there's libgimp-cil waiting for your review :)
<Hobbsee> slomo: you're in charge of xine-lib, right?
<tseng> Hobbsee: he is in charge of everything
<Hobbsee> tseng: point.
<Mithrandir> Sp4rKy: well, it's a blatant violation of Debian and Ubuntu policy, so just patch it out.
<siretart> Hobbsee: what is it with xine-lib?
<Sp4rKy> Mithrandir, k
<Sp4rKy> thx
<azeem> Sp4rKy: is the debian/ dir shipped in their release tarballs?
<azeem> or just cvs/svn/whatever?
<slomo> Hobbsee: you might want to talk to siretart :) he cares more for it lately
<Sp4rKy> azeem, don't know
<Hobbsee> siretart: slomo:  ah okay.  m4b playback.  i've got a patch for it, from kde upstream/gentoo, but it's giving me grief in applying it.
<Hobbsee> siretart: do you care enough to eyeball it, change it, fix it, etc?
<slomo> Hobbsee: wtf is m4b? another variant of a mp4 container format? ;)
<Hobbsee> change is simple - it seems to be the introducing of a patch system at all that is causing greif
<Hobbsee> slomo: i think so, yeah
* Hobbsee kept getting whined at about it in the amarok devel channel
<siretart> Hobbsee: Ive seen quite some interesting patches in the gentoo repo that you pointed me in the bugreport
<siretart> Hobbsee: I'd like to talk to flameyes about them. he is also xine upstream, and I wanted to ask him why those patches arn't upstream yet
<Hobbsee> siretart: fair enough
<siretart> Hobbsee: I'd need to find some hours to go through the gentoo patchsets and integrate them into the debian package. then I will remerge them in the ubuntu package.
<siretart> Hobbsee: I have all branches in bzr, btw
<Hobbsee> siretart: cool :)
<Sp4rKy> does manpages are really needed ?
<Sp4rKy> in a package ?
<zul> yes
<Toadstool> Sp4rKy: "If no manual page is available, this is considered as a bug and should be reported to the Debian Bug Tracking System (the maintainer of the package is allowed to write this bug report themselves, if they so desire). Do not close the bug report until a proper man page is available."
<Toadstool> Debian Policy
<Sp4rKy> sorry :p
<Toadstool> no problem :)
<Sp4rKy> gloubiboulga said me they 're not needed anymore
<Toadstool> Sp4rKy: if lintian complains about something, there is a huge chance that this is required by the debian policy ;)
<slomo> siretart: you will build xine against the new ffmpeg then?
<Sp4rKy> Toadstool, says it to {my,your} mentor :)
<Yagisan> Sp4rKy, we still need man pages.
<siretart> slomo: I need to test this. currently, xine is built against the internal copy
<Toadstool> Sp4rKy: heh
<siretart> slomo: I need to do some tests. xine 1.1.3cvs has already a newer ffmpeg snapshot. the changes that needed to be done outside src/libffmpeg didn't look too bad, so I expect it to work
<siretart> but I promise nothing :)
<Sp4rKy> another question, if a lib which is only used by one application has a buggued soname, could i just put here in /usr/lib or must i put it in /usr/lib/foo
<Sp4rKy> ?
<azeem> buggered how exactly?
<tseng> can anyone suggest a small tool to run from cron to do apt security updates in a (semi)automated fashion?
<tseng> and don't say cfengine
<tseng> *looks at update-apt*
<thom> you could probably hack apticron up
<tseng>   Update APT is a simple tool which will ensure that your local
<tseng>  machine is kept up to date in a simple manner.
<tseng> written by "The Other Steven K"
<Sp4rKy> azeem, the name is libfoo.so.X.Y.Z and the soname is X.Y.Z
<azeem> Sp4rKy: how did you figure out the soname is X.Y.Z?
<tseng> but not quite it
<azeem> or do you mean literally "X.Y.Z"
<Sp4rKy> the somane is X.Y.Z
<Sp4rKy> it's the result objdump write
<azeem> Sp4rKy: how did you figure out the soname is X.Y.Z?
<azeem> ok
<Mithrandir> tseng: pkgsync or cron-apt too.
<azeem> I suggest you rather fix this then
<Mithrandir> I'd hope it's rather libfoo.so.X.Y.Z than just X.Y.Z (or preferably libfoo.X as the soname, but you can't always have it that way)
<StevenK> tseng: There's another me?
<tseng> StevenK: steve kemp
<StevenK> Oh yeah
<StevenK> skx
<tseng> i thought you were him at first
<tseng> so solly
<StevenK> Heh
<slomo> siretart: works fine here... mplayer still crashes but this is "only" a symbol collision problem... ffmpeg and mplayer both ship their own liba52 copies... :(
<slomo> siretart: i'll fix mplayer later, ffmpeg is uploaded
<Sp4rKy> i've an issue with my pbuilder
<Sp4rKy> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Sp4rKy>   libeet0-dev: Depends: zlib1g-dev but it is not going to be installed
<Sp4rKy> and when i do a pbuilder login && apt-get install zlib1g-dev
<Sp4rKy> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Sp4rKy>   zlib1g-dev: Depends: zlib1g (= 1:1.2.3-6ubuntu4) but 1:1.2.3-13ubuntu1 is to be installed
<Sp4rKy> this is a dapepr pbuilder
<crimsun> so what is an edgy package doing in your dapper pbuilder?
<Sp4rKy> edgy ?
<Sp4rKy> this isn't an edgy package
<crimsun> yes, that's edgy's zlib1g
<crimsun> you claim it's a dapper pbuilder, but edgy's zlib1g is sourced (and therefore appears)
<Sp4rKy> sorry, i don't understand
<Sp4rKy> i've a dapper system and a dapper pbuilder
<Sp4rKy> and twice have zlib1g
<crimsun> in your dapper pbuilder, libeet0-dev cannot be installed because it depends on the dapper version of zlib1g-dev (1:1.2.3-6ubuntu4), but you have _edgy's_ zlib1g (1:1.2.3-13ubuntu1) installed in your pbuilder.
<crimsun> thus the question is, "why do you have edgy's zlib1g in your dapper pbuilder?"
<Sp4rKy> i don't know
<Sp4rKy> so i've to reinstall my pbuilder ?
<crimsun> not necessarily. perhaps. the better approach is to figure out why that edgy package is polluting your dapper pbuilder. check your pbuilder's sources.list.
<crimsun> I'd walk backward from a ``pbuilder login''
<crimsun> once you've logged into your pbuilder, ``apt-cache policy zlib1g''
<Sp4rKy> i'm doing
<Sp4rKy> zlib1g:
<Sp4rKy>   Installed: 1:1.2.3-13ubuntu1
<Sp4rKy>   Candidate: 1:1.2.3-13ubuntu1
<Sp4rKy>   Version table:
<Sp4rKy>  *** 1:1.2.3-13ubuntu1 0
<Sp4rKy>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<Sp4rKy>      1:1.2.3-6ubuntu4 0
<Sp4rKy>         500 http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
<Sp4rKy> root@Sp4rKy-laptop:/# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<Sp4rKy> deb http://e17.tuxfamily.org dapper e17
<Sp4rKy> deb http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper main restricted universe multiverse
<crimsun> so. Why in the world do you have edgy's zlib1g installed?
<Sp4rKy> don't know :/
<Sp4rKy> so i just remove this library ?
<crimsun> well, do you have edgy's version in the pbuilder's /var/cache/apt/archives/ ?
<thom> Sp4rKy: apt-get install zlib1g/dapper
<thom> and see what breaks
<Sp4rKy> root@Sp4rKy-laptop:/# ls /var/cache/apt/archives/zlib1g*
<Sp4rKy> /var/cache/apt/archives/zlib1g-dev_1%3a1.2.3-13ubuntu1_i386.deb  /var/cache/apt/archives/zlib1g_1%3a1.2.3-6ubuntu4_i386.deb
<Sp4rKy> /var/cache/apt/archives/zlib1g_1%3a1.2.3-13ubuntu1_i386.deb
<Sp4rKy> thom, works
<crimsun> so yes, you do have edgy's zlib1g{,-dev} debs cached. Remove them, then apt-get update, then log out of your pbuilder.
<crimsun> now if they're already in your base.tgz, you'll be back where you started before, which means you'll have to redo what you just did with ``pbuilder login --save-after-login''
<Sp4rKy> k
<\sh> re
<Sp4rKy> now i've the same issue with libimlib2
<hub> whiprush: the  thing on the pictures on your blog looks like a giant cock
<hub> hey \sh
<whiprush> hub: hehe, yeah
<thom> whiprush: i did wonder why the girls looked so interested in it...
<hub> :-)
<siretart> slomo: making xine use external liba52 is on my list anyway
<siretart> slomo: in fact, I've already done this in a branch
<slomo> siretart: cool... but i was talking about mplayer ;)
<slomo> siretart: and the easy workaround doesn't work at all :P grmpf...
<\sh> siretart: do you have a bazaar branch for the fai changes you made in your last upload for dapper?
<lfittl> could need some help with the following linda warning: "This package contains shared libraries and no shlibs file.", how exactly should the shlibs file look like?
<slomo> lfittl: it should be created by dh_makeshlibs
<lfittl> slomo: it is, but linda doesn't seem to like it
<siretart> \sh: I'm sure that I have, however, the debdiff is quite small
<lfittl> slomo: "libgrapple-1.0 0 libgrapple-1.0-0", can that be correct?
<siretart> slomo: can't you build mplayer with the external liba52?
<lfittl> slomo: source is at REVU, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931
<slomo> siretart: probably... will still explode because of ffmpeg's own version
<slomo> siretart: i'll try to use ffmpeg's version in mplayer later
<siretart> slomo: err, ffmpeg uses an internal copy of lib52a?
<siretart> you're sure?
<slomo> siretart: by just linking to libavcodec.so.0d instead of the static liba52 stuff that is created in the mplayer build tree
<slomo> yes
<\sh> siretart: I'm asking, because I wanted to fix some nfsroot configs as well, so we could push it onto lp and work together
<slomo> siretart: objdump -T /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.0d | grep a52 <--- all stuff in the so
<\sh> siretart: how is life btw? :)
<siretart> slomo: oh darn. perhaps you can check with sam about this?
<\sh> brb
<siretart> \sh: quite busy. I have a new part time job, but I'm quite busy with my thesis as well
<slomo> siretart: sure... sam in #debian-devel?
<siretart> slomo: right. I think on oftc only, but I'm not sure
<slomo> siretart: here too... let's see what he says
<lfittl> slomo: if you are too busy to investigate on my problem please say so, I will then re-search library packaging guide, .. ;)
<slomo> lfittl: oh, sorry... yes that looks fine if the library is libgrapple-1.0.so.0 and the package name libgrapple-1.0-0
<lfittl> slomo: hmm
<slomo> maybe linda is broken :) StevenK?
<lfittl> :)
<welshbyte> linda on REVU is a bit old, if that's the one you're using (REVU is running breezy)
<lfittl> welshbyte: no, I am using linda on edgy
<slomo> siretart: and mplayer can't be built against system or ffmpeg liba52... it uses private functions :(
<welshbyte> ah ok
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi lfittl
<lfittl> bddebian: linda seems to be wrong in this case (concerning libgrapple on REVU)
<lfittl> bddebian: or do you have any idea what is wrong with the shlibs file?
<bddebian> lfittl: Aye, I don't use REVU's linda/lintian.
<bddebian> lfittl: It's missing or not generated for the proper package
<AnAnt> bddebian: could you also review the elinks & freedict packages ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: Sure, what the hell :)
<AnAnt> bddebian: thanks !
* bddebian is probably the worst reviewer here and keeps getting asked to review :-)
<AnAnt> worst meaning what ?
<siretart> slomo: well, sam also maintains liba52. we should definitly fix that
<slomo> siretart: well, mplayer and ffmpeg have to be fixed, right :) probably not too easy in the case of mplayer...
<lfittl> bddebian: its contents are "libgrapple-1.0 0 libgrapple-1.0-0", and it is in the libgrapple-1.0-0 package, seems correct to me
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
(bddebian/#ubuntu-motu) lfittl: Let me ssh in to my machine
(bddebian/#ubuntu-motu) AnAnt: All MOTU's SHOULD be reviewers
(lfittl/#ubuntu-motu) bddebian: :)
(AnAnt/#ubuntu-motu) who are the MOTU
(AnAnt/#ubuntu-motu) ?
<lfittl> bddebian: will help with the reviewing as soon as I am a MOTU (could need your help/"+1" at the next TB meeting ;))
<AnAnt> what is help/"+1" & TB ?
<AnAnt> TB=testbench?
<azeem> TB=Technical Board
<AnAnt> oh,k
* bddebian points azeem to REVU ;-P
<phanatic> any revu admins around by chance?
<lfittl> help / "+1": that bddebian (hopefully :D) tells the technical board that I have done good work
<bddebian> But of course :-)
* bddebian hugs dholbach hello
<AnAnt> I just gone to MOTU wiki page
<AnAnt> does that mean that I can be a reviewer since I can upload ?
<lfittl> hey dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey bddebian, lfittl
<zul> hey dholbach
<bddebian> AnAnt: You are an MOTU?
<AnAnt> bddebian: dunno, I can upload to REVU
<bddebian> AnAnt: Oh and anyone can review but only MOTU's can advocate/upload to Ubuntu
<AnAnt> k
<bddebian> At least that is my understanding
<AnAnt> kk
<AnAnt> lionelp: you online ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> lionelp: great
<AnAnt> lionelp: remember you once reviewed elinks that I uploaded?
<lionelp> I remember yes
<bddebian> AnAnt: I will look at it again also if needed
<AnAnt> bddebian: thanks
<AnAnt> bddebian: the thing is I compiled in it more options than  the one from debian, I was wondering is that the right thing to do, or is it better to add a new target called elinks-full ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I mean just like ubuntu added a lightweight target called elinks-lite
<AnAnt> ?!
<AnAnt> I got mixed up
<AnAnt> bddebian: what did you mean by "it" when u said look at it again ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: I was thinking that I was talking to lionelp
<bddebian> AnAnt: Hmm..  Good question.  I kind of like the elinks-full idea but it might explode the archive a little
<AnAnt> lionelp: ok, you had some comments on elinks, so I fixed them & uploaded elinks on July, I hope you would review it again
<lionelp> I will have a look
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks
<lionelp> That is not an easy question
<AnAnt> which question ? the elinks-full one ?
<lionelp> yep
<AnAnt> well, I can help you answer it
<AnAnt> I compiled it with the spidermonkey option, that is to enable javascript support
<AnAnt> that option can cause elinks to crash sometimes (if java script was enabled during runtime)
<rexbron> Hello
<phanatic> raphink: hey, do you have time for a small revu fix? olive got stuck somewhere, and i cannot upload...
* welshbyte totally fails to find any API docs for libnautilus-burn
<rexbron> what is the process for getting packages into the Universe
<rexbron> is there a request form?
<AnAnt> it seems the Debian guys compile in the options that they see are usually needed and that are stable
<welshbyte> rexbron: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<raphink> phanatic: sure you can now :)
<AnAnt> btw, won't the recover page on REVU be fixed ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: one of the problem you have to consider is that elinks is in main
<AnAnt> lionelp: so ?
<lionelp> but your build depends on package in universe
<phanatic> raphink: thanks :)
<lionelp> so it is not possible to do a single package with another target
<AnAnt> lionelp: sorry I don't understand that last statement
<lionelp> Ok, I try to make it more clear :)
<lionelp> You have enabled more options for building elinks
<AnAnt> yup
<lionelp> with those options, you depends on package in universe
<AnAnt> ok
<lionelp> I was answering to your previous questions: this package can not be *the* elinks package even if you had a "light" and a "full" target to debian/rules
<lionelp> you need to keep it in a different package
<AnAnt> do you mean that it is bad that a package in main would depend on a package in universe ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: that detail was probably missing in explanation, you are right :)
<lionelp> yes, a package in main ca not depend on a package in universe
<AnAnt> lionelp: ok, that means, that if I want to add those options, I'd better add a new build target called, elinks-full for example
<AnAnt> lionelp: and leave the elinks target as it is
<AnAnt> lionelp: just like elinks-lite, I just checked it, it is in universe/web
<lionelp> You can not call you package elinks
<lionelp> you have to call it elinks-full
<AnAnt> lionelp: yes, that's what I mean, just like elinks-lite that Ubuntu added
<lionelp> exactly
<AnAnt> lionelp: both elinks & elinks-lite have same source package (that is elinks)
<AnAnt> ok, gonna work on that
<lionelp> AnAnt: you are right, both have the same source
<bddebian> *\O/* LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<AnAnt> is there something called Replaces: in control file ? or does Conflicts: suffice ?
<LaserJock> AnAnt: check out the Debian Policy
<LaserJock> for proper usage
<AnAnt> LaserJock: tell me, is the recover page on REVU still working for you ?
<AnAnt> LaserJock: where's that debian policy ?
<LaserJock> AnAnt: yes, it works for me
<LaserJock> AnAnt: www.debian.org/devel/
<AnAnt> LaserJock: what's the reason for that ?
<LaserJock> reason for what?
<AnAnt> LaserJock: that it works for you but not many others
<LaserJock> If I new that it would probably be fixed :-)
<AnAnt> yeah, right !
<AnAnt> gotta go
<bddebian> Where is all this spec stuff? I have to start getting some cheesy karma ;-P
<LaserJock> heh
<zul> hey LaserJock btw
<LaserJock> I think http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<LaserJock> brb, rebooting into Ubuntu
<welshbyte> you know, i think developers of young libraries think "there's no point in writing a man page documenting this library since the API is going to change regularly" but really that's a great reason to ship an up-to-date man page with each release (grumble)
<bddebian> :)
<Arbiter> sigh sob nobody reviews my packages :D
<bddebian> Arbiter: I didn't?
<Arbiter> bddebian: i meant... me 'new' packages :D
<Arbiter> kcmpureftpd for example :D
<bddebian> I'm working on it, I'm working on it :-)
<Arbiter> s/me/my
<Arbiter> bddebian: thanks :)
<Sp4rKy> i've a stange thing in one of my package
<Sp4rKy> the deb contains normal files (/usr/...) but also contains debian/foo/... files
<azeem> what is the full pathname to the foo files?
<Sp4rKy> azeem, i've ./debian/eutils/usr/bin/e17genmenu
<Sp4rKy> and usr/bin/e17genmenu
<Sp4rKy> for example
<azeem> so "/debian/eutils/usr/bin/e17genmenu" is inside the .deb?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<azeem> Sp4rKy: how did you invoke the .deb building process? pbuilder?
<Sp4rKy> and /usr/bin/e17genmenu" to
<azeem> the latter looks fine
<Sp4rKy> yes
<azeem> hrm, duno
<azeem> gotta run now as well
<Sp4rKy> ...
<Sp4rKy> any idea ?
<welshbyte> bddebian: i'm gonna grab some dinner... might look at those syncs/merges later if you're still around
<bddebian> welshbyte: You ROCK man :-)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Oh, I'm gonna upload your gnu-smalltalk btw :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: oh i meant to ask about that... could you check i put my name in all the right places? i put it in debian/changelog but left the maintainer name in debian/control and copyright the same
<bddebian> welshbyte: Will do
<welshbyte> bddebian: thanks, btw :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: No, THANK YOU!
<bddebian> welshbyte: Uploaded
<bddebian> Heya carthik
<carthik> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Arbiter: Still around?
<Arbiter> bddebian: here I am
<Arbiter> but i have to go shortly
<imbrandon> siretart: ping
<Arbiter> bddebian: i have to go...
<Arbiter> see you later
<imbrandon> any revu admins alove ?
<imbrandon> alive*
<bddebian> Gah
* welshbyte reappears, full of pasta
<bddebian> heh
<aigarius> who should I talk to about a sync request for sbackup (sid->edgy)? also people want a backport to dapper-updates.
<crimsun> dapper-updates isn't for backports
<Mez> backports?
<aigarius> well, there is n need to change anything
<aigarius> in the code I mean
<crimsun> file a bug using Malone against sbackup, then subscribe ubuntu-archive
<crimsun> (for the sync from Sid)
<aigarius> ok
<aigarius> is there an automatic sync for universe packages? how long does that take?
<bddebian> If you are sure it works and there are no Ubuntu changes
<crimsun> no, it's no longer automatic. That stopped as of UVF.
<crimsun> main's UVF, that is
<aigarius> ah, I missed the UVF announcement
<tseng> it was some time ago
<tseng> edgy is a very short cycle
<Sp4rKy> re
<Sp4rKy> i've always my strange issue with one apckage
<Sp4rKy> i've all files in /usr/* and in /debian/foo/usr/*
<AnAnt> I want to compile elinks against python
<AnAnt> and I put python-dev in Build depends
<AnAnt> but yet it cannot detect libpython.so, because python2.4-dev puts libpython2.4.so without any libpython.so link
<AnAnt> any solution for this ?
<AnAnt> hmm
<trappist> what to do when I change about 30 lines in a source pkg and do debuild -S and the debdiff is 30k lines long
<crimsun> trappist: use filterdiff(1)
<trappist> it shouldn't do that, right?
<bddebian> AnAnt: What is trying to detect it, configure?  And if so, how?
<trappist> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> AnAnt: fix elinks's configure.ac if it uses one.
<AnAnt> bddebian: yes configure
<AnAnt> bddebian: well, configure script has this -lpython
<crimsun> and that's broken, so fix the configure script.
<AnAnt> thre is configure.in
<AnAnt> why is it broken ?
<crimsun> because there is no such libpython.a
<crimsun> therefore -lpython will fail utterly
<AnAnt> is there a reason for not having a symbolic libpython.so pointing at the installed python library ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: What if I have python2.3 and python2.4
<AnAnt> ok
* crimsun pats bddebian on the back
<crimsun> see the new python-gobject? That's you!
<trappist> crimsun: filterdiff isn't going to solve this problem.  debuild -S did a LOT of unexpected work.  unless you have another suggestion, I'm just going to diff my changes against a pristine source package
<bddebian> crimsun: ??  He didn't fix dsextras.py afaik
<crimsun> trappist: why wouldn't filterdiff work?
<crimsun> trappist: pipe debdiff through filterdiff -i
<crimsun> or -x if you want to use the opposite
<trappist> crimsun: I can eliminate unwanted files, but that only solves about 20% of the problem.  for the rest, I'd need to know what lines to include or exclude, and I don't have a way to do that for the 30 or so patched files without way more work than I'm interested in doing
<crimsun> I presumed you were using sane, pristine source, but ok.
<trappist> I was
<trappist> I did apt-get source, changed one line apiece in about 30 files, and got a 30k-line debdiff
<trappist> it's never happened to me before
<crimsun> looks like something's being (re)generated in the clean target
<crimsun> 30k is quite excessive, though
<crimsun> how are you generating the debdiff?
<trappist> I say debuild -S, cd .., debdiff *.dsc
<crimsun> what does debian/rules::clean have?
<AnAnt> anyone knows what is that "sysconfig" in python ? is it some sort of class ?
<trappist> crimsun: dh_testdir, make clean and distclean, rm -rf build, and dh_clean debian/lotsofstuff
<crimsun> I wonder if upstream's make *clean is doing something nasty.
<trappist> crimsun: I can see when I run debuild -S that a ./configure is being run
<crimsun> perhaps timestamp skew?
<crimsun> ouch, yeah, timestamp skew
<trappist> crimsun: the package is apt
<crimsun> the _source_ is apt?
<trappist> yes
<crimsun> ping mvo, then
<trappist> ok, thanks - so it's true, it shouldn't be doing this
<crimsun> apt may have its own bag of beans, in which case mvo would probably know why
<AnAnt> I was once told that there is a python policy
<trappist> ok
<AnAnt> anyone knows the URL for it ?
<crimsun> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/index.html
<AnAnt> thanks
<crimsun> bddebian: is the ftbfs reproducible with 2.11.3-0ubuntu1?
<bddebian> crimsun: I haven't tried it yet because the source wasn't on packages.ubuntu.com
<bddebian> yet
<crimsun> it has to be, since ... Setting up python-gobject (2.11.3-0ubuntu1) ...
<crimsun> i386, btw.
<AnAnt> the standards version should be 3.7.2, right ?
<welshbyte> bddebian: so, what needs doing to ipac-ng?
<bddebian> welshbyte: Need to pull the latest from Debian and see what Ubuntu changes (if any) need to be merged package into it
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh, hmm
<bddebian> Damn, I think there almost as many specs as there are bugs
<gnomefreak> ok what am i missing :( why can some people get nvidia to work and i cant
<gnomefreak> is there a differnt package that edgy needs that dapper didnt?
<crimsun> more details and fewer vague handwaving, please
<bddebian> \O/
<bddebian>  /O\
<AnAnt> ok, it worked !
<AnAnt> why does one have to upload the orig tarball ?
<AnAnt> if it already was uploaded before in REVU ?
<gnomefreak> ok i got an mx4000 nvidia card and nvidia-glx installed and ran through the process 4 times and each time i choose nvidia as driver it doesnt start mainly i get the abi mismatch error
<gnomefreak> hmmm
<crimsun> afaik that "error" is just a warning
<gnomefreak> wonders if i was missing libglitz-glx1
<AnAnt> ?
<gnomefreak> i thought it said [EE]  but i will check next time around after i install libglitz-glx1 and try
<nixternal> crimsun: return: 206: Illegal number: -1
<nixternal> ^^ flashplugin-nonfree
<bddebian> crimsun: diacanvas still doesn't build.  seb128 told me that dsextras.py was unsupported :-(
<AnAnt> why des one have to upload the orig tarball if it already was uploaded before in REVU ?
<AnAnt> anyways, I'm on a dialup, and can't reupload the 3MB elinks orig tarball
<AnAnt> so I uploaded the diff, dsc & changes file only
<AnAnt> I hope that's ok
<crimsun> no, since -sa requires the orig.tar.gz, too.
<AnAnt> crimsun: I did -sd
<crimsun> -sd?
<AnAnt> from dpkg-buildpackage manpage: -sa forces the inclusion of the original  source;  -sd  forces  its  exclusion  and includes only the diff.
<crimsun> yes, but you _cannot_ use -sd
<AnAnt> yes, I just found that out !
<AnAnt> the orig tarball previously uploaded is gone !
<AnAnt> it will take ages to upload a 3MB tarball
<crimsun> it takes me about 30 mins
<Sp4rKy> nobody could help me with my debian/ in .deb
<cr3> how can I recommend a package for sponsoring?
<gnomefreak> do we package nvidia-glx or does nvidia send it already packaged?
<gnomefreak> nvm wrong package anyway :(
<bddebian> ggaaaahhh
<bddebian> cr3: What do you mean by sponsoring?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<welshbyte> boom
<bddebian> bang
<welshbyte> how can i re-check a man page after lintian told me there was an error in it?
<welshbyte> don't really want to build the package again
<bddebian> Unfortunately you can't as far as lintian is concerned.  At least afaik
<welshbyte> bah
<ryanakca> welshbyte: what... you want to look at the man page? man ./appname.number
<bddebian> Later folks
<welshbyte> ryanakca: no, i wanted to get the warnings and errors about man pages that lintian gives without having to run lintian
<welshbyte> and i've just figured out how to do it :)
<ryanakca> ooh... how?
<ryanakca> this might save me some time down the read
<ryanakca> s/read/road
<welshbyte> man -lT <manpage> | grep warning
<ryanakca> welshbyte: nice.. what are you packaging? kde or gnome or cli?
<welshbyte> i'm just having a look at some merges at the moment
<ryanakca> ah
<welshbyte> actually
<AnAnt> lionelp: ok, I added elinks-full package to elinks source package, please have a look at it
<welshbyte> man -lT manpage > /dev/null might be better
<lionelp> AnAnt: I will
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks
<lionelp> the problem is that it should go in main
<AnAnt> lionelp: elinks-full too ?
<lionelp> and it is not doable by a MOTU :)
<lionelp> (the source at least)
<AnAnt> lionelp: well, it did contain an elinks-lite since dapper
<AnAnt> lionelp: and they used to put the elinks-lite in universe it seems
<lionelp> binary yes
<lionelp> not source
<AnAnt> lionelp: that's according to aptitude "Section: universe/web"
<AnAnt> yes, so what ?
<AnAnt> I think just as they handled elinks-lite they will handle elinks-full
<AnAnt> the only feature I couldn't compile is FSP support
<AnAnt> because it needs a package that doesn't exist
<lionelp> note that elinks-lite is not Ubuntu specific
<lionelp> it comes from Debian
<AnAnt> lionelp: are you sure ? I don't think I saw it in Debian
<lionelp> I have juste checked
<lionelp> http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/elinks.html
<AnAnt> oh yes, indeed
<AnAnt> well, ok
<AnAnt> btw, do you mean the REVU is not for main packages ?
<lionelp> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> what should I do then ?
<lionelp> hum... not sure of what you have to do
<lionelp> maybe sending a mail to ubuntu-motu will be a first step and you will have more point of view
<AnAnt> REVU is not for multiverse either, right ?
<lionelp> it can be for multiverse
<AnAnt> then why the acroread package was removed ?
<lionelp> It was not removed
<lionelp> it was archived
<AnAnt> oh, what does that mean ?
<lionelp> Archied upload are packages that are not under work
<lionelp> (for different reasons: uploaded, no answer from the uploader)
<AnAnt> so what should I do about that ?
<lionelp> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2542 -> you will have the reason why it has been archived
<AnAnt> ok
<CarlFK> can someone review https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb - I am about to use to to update mplayer - rather tweak before the run through
<AnAnt> but debian doesn't have acroread , or does it call it another name
<AnAnt> ?
<micahcowan> apt-cache search acroread shows it for me
<AnAnt> micahcowan: in debian ?
<AnAnt> micahcowan: what's the package called ?
<micahcowan> No, I'm running Ubuntu 6.06.
<lionelp> AnAnt: it is said "Debian Multimedia" not "Debian" :)
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> I didnt know that there is a difference
<micahcowan> where would you look for that, instead of in packages.debian.org?
<lionelp> It is another repository (not official) : http://www.debian-multimedia.org/
<AnAnt> ok, back to elinks, you said I should send an email, what's the email address, and what should I say there ?
<AnAnt> and what can they do ? as you mentioned that MOTUs  can't upload to main.
<LaserJock> A MOTU can certainly review packages, etc.
<lionelp> LaserJock: did you follow the discusion?
<LaserJock> not a whole lot :-)
<AnAnt> lionelp: ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<lionelp> Ok, quickly : AnAnt uploaded a modified version of the elinks package on REVU (with other options)
<lionelp> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> lionelp: can a launchpad member send to it ?
<LaserJock> ok
<lionelp> elinks is in main (the source and the package) and the source also generate a elinks-lite in universe
<lionelp> I do not realy know what we should do with this
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ping a core-dev
<lionelp> easy situation, isn't it ? :)
<LaserJock> I'd ask mdz or somebody like that
<lionelp> AnAnt: try to ping someone on #ubuntu-devel
<AnAnt> there are many there
<crimsun> what's the issue?
<lionelp> crimsun: : AnAnt uploaded a modified version of the elinks package on REVU (with other options)
<lionelp> elinks is in main (the source and the package) and the source also generate a elinks-lite in universe
<crimsun> yes, but what's the issue?
<crimsun> as long as the work is done against 0.11.1, it's fine
<crimsun> should be fairly trivial to merge the work into 0.11.1-1ubuntu2 and upload
<lionelp> packages on REVU and most of reviewer are MOTU
<lionelp> if you think this can go in main, this is fine
<lionelp> that is the question
<crimsun> we'll look later
<crimsun> are the changes against the current edgy/main source?
<crimsun> (0.11.1-1ubuntu2)
<AnAnt> yup
<AnAnt> crimsun: yup
<crimsun> then a few of the more experienced MOTU should look
<AnAnt> so should I send an email to ubuntu-motu mailing list or not ?
<crimsun> about reviewing it?
<AnAnt> err, dunno
<AnAnt> maybe
<crimsun> I personally wouldn't send an e-mail, but if you think it will help, sure, go ahead
<AnAnt> k, I sent email
<lionelp> AnAnt: you can add a comment to your upload on REVU that will send an e-mail to motu-reviewer ML
<AnAnt> lionelp: cannot add comment, recover page is not working
<AnAnt> btw, what is ML ?
<lionelp> motu-reviewers (at) tauware (dot) de
<AnAnt> oh mailing list
<lionelp> ah, sorry, I did not catch you question
<AnAnt> hehe
<lionelp> yes, you understand it well:)
<AnAnt> crimsun: so generally if I do changes to a main package I can send it to REVU ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: sure, but realise that you'd be addressing an even smaller group of people who can (and have resources) to review, approve, and upload
<AnAnt> ok
<crimsun> given the backlog on universe packages, don't be surprised if nothing ever happens for main ones
<AnAnt> well, it's way past midnight, gotta go sleep
<AnAnt> crimsun: oh , ok
<gnomefreak> crimsun: let me know when you get a min i have error i dont understand
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-24
<imbrandon> crimsun: ugh is there a package with a provides/conflicts/replaces example ?
<imbrandon> ( that you know of )
<crimsun> imbrandon: any of Edgy's xserver-xorg-video-*
<crimsun> gnomefreak: in 20 mins, please
<imbrandon> k thnaks
<gnomefreak> ok
<allee> siretart: any plans to merge fai 2.10.5 from sid?
<Lure> imbrandon: powersave also provides/conflicts/replaces
<geser> is there a way to sync packages from debian where the source package changed names?
<imbrandon> Lure: thanks ;) got it
<geser> rhythmbox-applet is now called music-applet
<imbrandon> great more generic names
<imbrandon> geser: not sure you might poke one of the sync admins ( aka keybuck ) durring his "normal operating hours"
<imbrandon> and ask
<geser> ok, will try
<geser> are source packages which got removed in debian (semi-)automatically also removed in ubuntu?
<slomo_> yes
<crimsun> slomo_: ping (RE: #51281); is linux-source-2.6.15 affected as well?
<slomo_> nope, i had this problem since the first .17 kernel in edgy
<crimsun> ok, so it's only in edgy's (not reproducible in dapper)?
<slomo_> yes
<crimsun> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> crimsun: how's it going today? less busy than yesterday?
<crimsun> LaserJock: about the same
<LaserJock> interesting, I would have thought a "graphical wrapper for X" would imply a dependecy on X
<LaserJock> crimsun: same here, too bad
<crimsun> it's only the first week, too. It's just going downhill from here
<LaserJock> school?
<crimsun> yep
<LaserJock> luckily school doesn't mean much for me
<LaserJock> at this point
<LaserJock> I almost forgot to register for classes
<LaserJock> as I don't have any real classes
<zul> thats a bit silly
<LaserJock> silly?
<LaserJock> of course it's silly, it's a university :-)
<micahcowan> So... what unreal classes are you taking, then?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I've got 6 credits of dissertation
<zul> oh goody my menus borked
<LaserJock> 1 credit of Research Conference which is my weekly meetings with my advisor
<LaserJock> 1 credit of Colloquia which is our group meetings
<LaserJock> so 8 credits of "doing work"
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: you know, once you actually start working, meetings are not credited, they are merely annoying things you have to suffer through?
<LaserJock> yes, I realize that
<micahcowan> word.
<crimsun> and deity help you through the phone conferences.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: those are real fun
<LaserJock> but I also have to pay $30 a credit for my meetings :-)
<Burgundavia> however, with the phone ones, you can at least play solitaire
<micahcowan> Ah, yes. At least I get paid for the time I spend in mine. :)
<micahcowan> Burgundavia: or Simon Tatham's awesome puzzles: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
* micahcowan goes to check if there's a package for that...
<micahcowan> Yay! sgt-puzzles!
<Fujitsu> Can a MOTU please ack the sync request in bug 57064?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57064 in imgsizer "Please sync imgsizer 2.7-2 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57064
<LaserJock> grrr, why can't I get Xnest to work? :/
<Fujitsu> What's up with it?
<LaserJock> it doesn't work
<Fujitsu> !doesn't work
<ubotu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<LaserJock> hehe
<Fujitsu> I love that factoid.
<LaserJock> well, I'd like to start up either gnome or kde
<LaserJock> I can get a blank xnest window if I do sudo Xnest :1
<LaserJock> but I can't seem to get it to open anything up in it
<LaserJock> or get gnome or kde to start up
<Fujitsu> So you just get the checkered X background?
<LaserJock> I found several hints online but none seem to work
<LaserJock> yeah
<Fujitsu> I presume you set DISPLAY appropriately?
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't set DISPLAY
<Fujitsu> Well, you'll need to.
<LaserJock> so I need to do that?
<Fujitsu> YEs.
<Fujitsu> Or it doesn't know which server to send requests to :)
<LaserJock> ok, I tried startx /usr/bin/startkde -- /usr/X11R6/bin/Xnest :2
<LaserJock> and that was a no go
<LaserJock> so do I set DISPLAY=:2 before I run that?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<LaserJock> hmm, nothing online says that
<Fujitsu> I don't think Xnest sets it itself...
<LaserJock> but at least now I'm getting .Xauthority errors
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> I know about that...
<Fujitsu> There is a switch you need to pass to turn off access control...
<Fujitsu> man Xnest should help.
<LaserJock> heh, now that I'm no longer able to start any apps in my main window ....
<LaserJock> phew, and with a gdm restart I'm back
<LaserJock> I don't think the DISPLAY thing is a good idea
<Fujitsu> Did you export it or set it?
<Fujitsu> If you exported it, that'd do it.
<Fujitsu> Because it'll make all your X windows try to appear in the Xnest session.
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> but then I can use my main window
<LaserJock> I just got it working
<LaserJock> I guess I just needed to restart X or something
<LaserJock> I used the same command as before
<Fujitsu> Thankyou crimsun.
<LaserJock> ah, I think I maybe have been have a problem with x lock files not being cleaned up too
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> wb bddebian
<bddebian> thx LaserJock
<cr3> bddebian: hi, still there?
<bddebian> Hello cr3
<welshbyte> man that was a terrible movie
<welshbyte> triaging X bugs is more entertaining
<imbrandon> anyone on dapper kubuntu feel like being a guineypig for a few minutes ?
<welshbyte> bddebian: ipac-ng is a messy little package but the only merge conflict was the Build-Depends
<bddebian> welshbyte: Nice
<bddebian> welshbyte: What movie?
<bddebian> imbrandon: I can't sorry, my kubuntu machine is at work :-(
<welshbyte> Constantine
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> welshbyte: For ipac-ng, that script that I updated is in the package now?
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: With ?
<welshbyte> bddebian: um, which script? just getting my concentration back...
<bddebian> welshbyte: I think I patched a script from something on Launchpad.  Should have been in the changelog?
<welshbyte> ah..
<welshbyte> +  * Copy rules.conf and ipac.conf from BTS #327344
<welshbyte> +    - Closes Malone: #28635
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<Hawkwind> imbrandon: Still need a dapper tester ?
<ryanakca> bddebian: do you need to re-advocate now that I added the changelog entry?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Sorry, which package?
<ryanakca> bddebian: eqonomize
<bddebian> ryanakca: Let me take a look
<bddebian> ryanakca: I added another advocation just for insurance :-)
<ryanakca> :)
<ryanakca> thanks
<bddebian> No, Thank you! :-)
<ryanakca> now I'm just waiting for imbrandon to advocate... he said this afternoon... but he's busy building :)
<ryanakca> anywais, I'm off to bed, it's late :)
<bddebian> Gnight
<bddebian> welshbyte: You gonna post ipac or ..?
<welshbyte> bddebian: i was just about to ask... REVU?
<bddebian> welshbyte: Unless you want to just pastebin it or post it on a site somewhere.  Doesn't matter
<welshbyte> well, what file(s) do you need?
<bddebian> welshbyte: Just do a debdiff.  debdiff foo.dsc foo-xubuntu1.dsc
<welshbyte> where foo.dsc is the debian version's .dsc?
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> You can obviously dump it to a file too.
<welshbyte> bddebian: http://andrewprice.me.uk/dropoff/
<bddebian> welshbyte: Thx, pulling now
<bddebian> welshbyte: Uploaded.  Rockin', thanks again!
<welshbyte> bddebian: cool, no problem :)
<bddebian> Gah, freakin' diacanvas2
<bddebian> Or better freakin' pygobject
<bddebian> welshbyte: Did you get a message about ipac-ng?
<welshbyte> um... nope, should i have?
<bddebian> Oh, no, you didn't use your info in the changelog :-)
<bddebian> I don't know why it hasn't shown up in Edgy changes though
<welshbyte> ah
<welshbyte> oh yeah, merge-o-matic did the changelog
<welshbyte> i'm never sure when it's appropriate to take credit for these things :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Any time you do the work man :-)
<welshbyte> i'll keep that in mind :)
<welshbyte> oh crap... did i forget to sign it? would that be why?
<bddebian> No, I rebuilt the source and signed it with my key
<welshbyte> ok
<bddebian> I don't know if I should re-upload or not..
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<welshbyte> who gets the mom@ubuntu.com email?
<welshbyte> ello Hobbsee
<LaserJock> probably keybuck if it's for MoM
<jsgotangco> it probably goes into a request queue as well
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I've got a job for you :-)
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<Hobbsee> hi everyone else
<Hobbsee> hey welshbyte
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: keybuk, probably
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh yay, what is it?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: kiosktool wants a root password
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: lovely.  and?
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: bug 6306
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6306 in kiosktool "Kiosk admin tool tries to login with root account " [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6306
<LaserJock> I want you to fix it of course :-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> or I guess I could have bddebian do it :-)
<Hobbsee> true that
* bddebian doesn't do anything
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: presumably that means it needs to start with kdesu
<LaserJock> that's what I'd assume
<LaserJock> you might ask pitti though, apparently he did a few of those
* Hobbsee is at uni, wiht lots of uni work to catch up :(
<LaserJock> don't worry
<Hobbsee> the curse of being sick...
<LaserJock> I just thought it might be interesting for a KDE person'
<Hobbsee> true that
<Hobbsee> it will be interesting when you find the fix :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<crimsun> go me. By fixing python2.4's ftbfs, I exposed yet another error, so now none of its packages install at all.
<LaserJock> heh
<welshbyte> impressive :)
<crimsun> this is bug 56779
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56779 in python2.4 "Error during Dapper-->Edgy update" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56779
<uniscript> I'm building a binary package from a source package on a dev machine that has a newer version of freetype than is in the ubuntu repos
<uniscript> Is there a way to not have that later version dependency end up in the package?
<LaserJock> hmm, how do I test for a user in a shell script?
<welshbyte> "test for a user" ?
<bddebian> LaserJock: You can do $USER = 'foo' but it's not ideal
<uniscript> `id`
<LaserJock> bddebian: is there a better way?
<bddebian> uniscript: Use a pbuilder?
<uniscript> bddebian: good url on pbuilder? Does it need to install a complete system again or can it use my system (i.e. does it take up tons of space)?
<LaserJock> not a lot of space
<LaserJock> it is a minimal install
<LaserJock> check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<uniscript> ta
<bddebian> uniscript: No, it's pretty minimalistic.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<uniscript> so is it going to spot that I have a newer freetype and handle the older version?
<LaserJock> it doesn't use your system at all
<uniscript> oh it just pulls *everything* it needs to build the package?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> that's the point
<uniscript> great :)
<LaserJock> it let's you make sure your deps are right
<imbrandon> gnight folks /me is off to nap time ( http://www.imbrandon.com/2006/08/23/get-it-hot-amarok-142-released/  for those on kde that wanna play with it while i sleep )
<welshbyte> seems that edgy has the latest freetype anyway, if i'm not mistaken
* welshbyte pokes his nose into openvrml
<hub> imbrandon: is it build against dapper or riddell kde updates?
<hub> imbrandon: 'cause I have 3.5.4
<uniscript> welshbyte: yes, but I'm building for dapper users
<imbrandon> hub: its built against default dapper ( for the dapper install )
<hub> ok then I have to rebuild
<imbrandon> so it will work with or without riddells updates
<imbrandon> hub: no
<imbrandon> thats not how kde works ;)
<hub> do you think I trust that?
<hub> ;-)
<imbrandon> ok let me put it like this the amarok on kubuntu.org is built agains the default dapper too
<imbrandon> they are all built in pbuilder ;)
<imbrandon> but if you wish to take the time ;) youll need to grab the other libs from there too and build those as i backported a few libs also ;)
<imbrandon> anyhow i'm off to sleep, gnight folks
<uniscript> I have a local copy of the dapper repo on a mounted directory, can I get pbuilder to use that?
<imbrandon> sure uniscript just add it to the pbuilders sources.list before you build it
* imbrandon beds
<Hobbsee> night imbrandon
<welshbyte> E: openvrml source: source-tar-is-posix-tar openvrml_0.15.10.orig.tar.gz
<welshbyte> okay...
* Yagisan waves to ajmitch 
* Hobbsee waves to Yagisan and ajmitch 
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
* Yagisan is finaly getting a edgy system set up
<Hobbsee> oh fun
<Hobbsee> just before init-crack comes into place
<Yagisan> nice. It's a vm so I can blow it away withou any qualms
<Fujitsu> :(
<Fujitsu> No blowing it away!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, how far off is that?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no idea
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, why not ? I don't plan to migrate my critcal systems until after release.
<Fujitsu> Aw, what a boring life you must lead :P
<Fujitsu> Having production systems that don't break? What a silly decision...
<Hobbsee> hah
<Yagisan> Fujitsu, no, I tried that with breezy->dapper. was not fun. Rather not do it again
* Hobbsee considers going to physics.
<Fujitsu> Pfft.
* Yagisan debates if the xserver update is worth installing
<Fujitsu> It is.
<welshbyte> physics is highly overra-....
* welshbyte falls off his bed
* Fujitsu hits welshbyte a lot.
<Fujitsu> (a LOT)
<welshbyte> ok i might have deserved that :)
* Fujitsu grabs the channel trout and belts welshbyte around the head with it.
<Fujitsu> No criticising physics!
* Fujitsu severely chastises.
* welshbyte apologises profusely
* Fujitsu cuts up the channel trout and offers some to welshbyte.
<welshbyte> uh, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee hears we're doing interesting things in physics, actually
* Hobbsee hasnt been for about 2 weeks :P
<Fujitsu> :O
<Hobbsee> oh crap, i'm writing spaghetti code here.
* Fujitsu reassembles the trout and slaps Hobbsee with it a bit.
<Hobbsee> er, maybe not spaghetti code.  more just plain crap code.
<Fujitsu> What are you writing?
<Fujitsu> And what language?
<Hobbsee> c++
<Hobbsee> uni assignment
<Fujitsu> :(
<bddebian> C++ IS spaghetti code ;-P
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, sounds like fun
<Hobbsee> bddebian: heh.  true that.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What? They're throwing you straight into C++? Or have you done C already?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: never done C
<Hobbsee> so yeah, straight into C++
<TheMuso> Thats a bit icky then IMO.
<bddebian> Or better yet, VisualBasic ;-P
<welshbyte> i wouldn't say C was a prerequisite for learning C++
<TheMuso> True
<Hobbsee> urgh.  now we never did that
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What do you have to do for the assignment?
<bddebian> "Hello World" ;-)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: http://online.mq.edu.au/pub/COMP125/assignments/ass1q2.pdf is the bit i'm doing at the moment
<Hobbsee> bddebian: no, that was prac 1 last semester
<Hobbsee> the assignment's not that hard - it's just not falling into place, and it's so noisy and hard to concentrate
<welshbyte> don't knock hello world, it's in main :)
<bddebian> I'm not knocking it, I couldn't even write it :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: They're starting you deep it seems. Or have you done intro to C++ in the course already?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, i did intro last semester
<TheMuso> Right
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the lecturer on it is crap, unfortunately.  yay for the better lecturer we get next week :D
<TheMuso> heh
* welshbyte is looking forward to repeating the second year of his comp sci degree course in september
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Fun fun fun.
<welshbyte> grr why is openvrml not building
<bddebian> welshbyte: Because it's hideous :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: you're not wrong
<bddebian> I know, why do you think I asked you to do it? ;-)
<welshbyte> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/774575 look fixable?
<bddebian> Yeah, one of them is wrong.  It should be either int (*)(foo... or int (*)(const foo) not int (*)(foo -> int (*)(const foo)
* bddebian wonders if that statement even makes sense
<welshbyte> ooh, i found it in a debian bug
<bddebian> I was just going to check that :-)
<welshbyte> i don't think a patch is being applied... i'll look into it
<bddebian> You DA MAN!
* welshbyte learns about quilt
<bddebian> Gah, I gotta get to bed.  Gnight folks
<bddebian> Thanks again welshbyte
* Fujitsu prods Firefox's SSL support with a pointy stick.
<TheMuso> c
<siretart> allee: if you have time to merge it, just do it!
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Arbiter> hi Hobbsee
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: i have a question...
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: shoot.  as long as it's not "can i review something"  :P
<Arbiter> yep
* Hobbsee is at uni again
<Arbiter> it's a problem with .diff.gz
<Arbiter> look at my comment at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2935
<Arbiter> (the last one)
<Hobbsee> ....this isnt kradio, is it?
<Arbiter> it's kcmpureftpd...
<Arbiter> i don't know why things in previous debian/ directory aren't listed in .diff.gz
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: would there be a debian/ in the upstream tarball, by any chance?
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: yes.. the comment explains why i deleted that dir
<Arbiter> uhm... another thing...
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: did you remove the debian/ from the original tarball, or the working directory?
* Hobbsee is grabbing it now
<Arbiter> Hobbsee: working dir
<Arbiter> i've noticed that running debuild -S -sa for the first time tells me something like
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: right.  have you whinged at upstream yet?
<Arbiter> warning: ignoring deletion of 'blahblah'
* Hobbsee checks the packaging guide.  Riddell has told me before just to delete the debian/ dir in the upstream tarball, and repackage it
<Arbiter> really?
<Hobbsee> and note it in the changelog afterwards
<Arbiter> so i have to provide a modified .orig.tar.gz? :D
<Hobbsee> yeah, cos otherwise it keeps thrashing your changes
<Hobbsee> well, yeah, it's not the best policy
<Arbiter> well
<Hobbsee> but...
<Arbiter> ...but?
<Hobbsee> but sometimes such thigns have to be done
<Arbiter> heheheh :)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: why dont you take out the debian dir, then get the md5sum of the repackaged tarball, and i'll check it here
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~/Desktop$ md5sum *.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> 82b31d4bd4e9aa3590157aa742268ff3  kcmpureftpd_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> 6ed395c5185836f601d8f4b0353dabe4  kcmpureftpd-0.9.1.tar.gz
<Arbiter> uhm.. wait
<Hobbsee> .....and then you'll have to make your changes again, it seems
<Hobbsee> i wonder if quick and dirty hacking of the dsc works...
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: at this point, you should also be bitching at upstream about including a debian/ in their source
<Hobbsee> very loudly :P
<Arbiter> 82b31d4bd4e9aa3590157aa742268ff3  kcmpureftpd_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz
<Arbiter> 71560616e68c2616552a0eaf720cb935  kcmpureftpd_0.9.1.tar.gz
<Riddell> I always remove upstream debian/ dirs before making the .orig
<Arbiter> uhm...
<Hobbsee> Riddell: then why did we just get different md5sums?
<Riddell> I don't know what's being compared
<Hobbsee> Riddell: we both just deleted the debian/ from the same tarball, then repackaged it
<Arbiter> maybe it's compressed with a different gzip level...
<Riddell> Hobbsee: different timestamps
<Riddell> that's unavoidable
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ahhhh.....
<Hobbsee> yes, right
<Arbiter> there are a lot of factors that makes md5sums different i think
<Hobbsee> Riddell: is it Very Bad (tm) to change the md5sum and size in the .dsc without doing anything else?
<Hobbsee> or is that legal?
<Arbiter> debuild -S -sa :P
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I do it all the time
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<Hobbsee> eep.  that borked.
<Hobbsee> oh yes, of course it borked.
<Arbiter> ok i'm now testing the new package in pbuilder :)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
<Arbiter> Riddell: can i give my opinion about the kubuntu look planned for edgy? :)
<Riddell> Arbiter: sure, on #kubuntu-devel please
<gnomefreak> :( i like the purple
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> kcmpureftpd should be fine now...
<Arbiter> (i hope)
<gnux123> I already have an gpgkey and launchpad account what would be next for REVU?
<Arbiter> gnux123: join the ubuntu-universe-contributors team on launchpad
<\sh> moins
<gnux123> Finish joining what would be the next?
<Arbiter> gnux123: reading a packaging guide then start making your own packages :)
<gnux123> If I already have a package where can I upload it?
<Arbiter> gnux123: you need to wait until you are approved in ubuntu-universe-contributors
<Hobbsee> or poke someone to sync the keyring.  like raphink
<gnux123> membership is open, and Im now member?
<Arbiter> then the packaging guide at help.ubuntu.com explains how to upload packages to REVU (iirc)
<raphink> :p
<Hobbsee> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
* Hobbsee hugs raphink 
<raphink> :D
* raphink hugs Hobbsee
<Arbiter> knowit is nearly finished
<gnux123> ah I see
<Arbiter> knowit in REVU
<Arbiter> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2949
<gnux123> How can I know that packages are uploaded?
<Arbiter> check revu.tauware.de
<Arbiter> and look for your packagename
<Arbiter> list is updated every 5 minutes (iirc)
<gnux123> Not a .changes file.
<gnux123> Please select a .changes file to upload.
<gnux123> Tried to upload: asterisk_1.2.10.dfsg.orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> gnux123: try dput revu asterisk_1.2.10.dfsg*source.changes
<gnux123> http://pastebin.com/774694 I got this after dput revu asterisk*
<slomo_> gnux123: you should sign .changes and .dsc before uploading
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> ping: unknown host
<Hobbsee> !ping
<Hobbsee> [20:09]  [Notice]  -NickServ- You cannot GHOST yourself.
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> !ping
<slomo_> !ping google.com
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ping google.com - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<slomo_> hm
<gnux123> Thanks its now uploaded
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> ping: unknown host
<Hobbsee> !ping is <reply>pong
<ubotu> ping is already known
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> they've changed it
<Hobbsee> siretart: ping?
<siretart> Hobbsee_: pong
<Hobbsee_> siretart: backports seem to be working, if you wanted to backport xine-lib at some point
<siretart> Hobbsee: oh. thanks for notice. would you mind to file a bug so I don't miss it?
<ryanakca> can a motu pleased review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2939
<Hobbsee> siretart: sure, but i need to leave for home right about now, while there are people around
<siretart> Hobbsee: i'm terribly busy until end of weekend with work, uni, moving, etc. :(
<siretart> ok
<Hobbsee> siretart: fair enough
<Hobbsee> siretart: if you've got no more changes, i can request the backport here, that's fine
* Hobbsee shrugs
<siretart> hm, she's gone, but anyway: I need to check if the current version is suitable for backporting, and what gets broken by backporting. anyway, I can and will comment on that in the bugreport
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> anyone here deploy dapper with apt-cacher ?
<Yagisan> I have an "interesting" error message
<imbrandon> moins all
* Yagisan wonders why this doesn't work with a fresh dapper install "deb http://192.168.1.1:3142/au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper main restricted"
<Yagisan> gives an Err 500 (Internal Server Error) Can't connect to http::80 (Bad hostname 'http:' )
<geser> hello
<geser> how is the depens line computed at build-time?
<geser> s/depens/depends/
<ogra_> geser, not at all ... its just moved into the package ... or do you mean build-deps ?
<geser> I'm wondering why gpe-contacts ends depending on libcontacts0 where the correct name is libcontactsdb0
<geser> is /var/lib/dpkg/info/libcontactsdb0.shlibs responsible for it?
<ogra_> do you have libcontactsdb-dev in the build-deps line ?
<ogra_> or is it a static entry in the deps line of the source package ?
<geser> I've a build-deps on libcontactsdb-dev
<geser> and the entry for the binary has Depends: gpe-icons, ${shlibs:Depends}
<wseb> hello,
<wseb> french motu are on this chat ?
<geser> I'm wondering if "libcontactsdb 0 libcontacts0 (>= 0.3)" is the correct entry in /var/lib/dpkg/info/libcontactsdb0.shlibs
<hub> sort of
<hub> wseb: sort of
<geser> should it be "libcontactsdb 0 libcontactsdb0 (>= 0.3)" ?
<cbx33> oo-bun-to or You-bun-to
<cbx33> ?
<wseb> hub, ?
<hub> wseb: you asked about french MOTUs
<Yagisan> woot. I found the apt-cacher bug that annoys me has a bug report
<hub> wseb: I said "sort of"
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: so you fixed it?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, nope. apparently its some perl issue. It's debian bug 332748
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 332748 in apt-cacher "apt-cacher: gets confused after some time, returns error 500" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/332748
<wseb> hub, yes but when you say "sort of" i don't understand what you want to say
<Yagisan> Hobbsee, you've no idea how much that bug annoys me. /me looks for a replacement instead
<hub> wseb: "en quelque sorte"
<StevenK> Yagisan: I stopped using apt-cacher for that reason.
<wseb> ok, sorry i understand "trier" :/
<wseb> hub, you are french
<Yagisan> StevenK, any suggestions on what I can move my cache over too ?
<wseb> hub, i just want more information about motu team
<StevenK> Yagisan: No, because they all suck.
<hub> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<hub> all the info is there
<wseb> ok i have already read this document
<Yagisan> StevenK, so the choice is a) local mirror or b) squid with massive cache
<StevenK> Correct.
<StevenK> Either way, you need a heap of disk.
<Yagisan> crap
<wseb> hub, but i'm java programmer, i prog a little in C/C++, i use ubuntu, and do you think it's possible to become motu
<wseb> i'm verry interesting to contibute to this project
<hub> wseb: learn debian packaging and upload to REVU
<hub> as we say "c'est en forgeant que l'on devient forgeron"
<wseb> ok, but "a consiste en quoi le deboggage exactement"
<Yagisan> StevenK, somehow I feel that either one of those will be bigger then the 6GB I have available
<StevenK> Yagisan: A local mirror will *easily* outstrip 6Gb
<wseb> hub, in bug fixing you have to correct sort of code
<Yagisan> StevenK, how much are we talking about for say amd64+i386 ? ~40GB ?
<hub> wseb: yes and no. it depends. packaging is mostly about installation problems, etc.
<StevenK> Yagisan: Um. Including source?
<hub> wseb: fixing bugs in the code is fine too, but it is about prorotization
<wseb> hub, like to adapt debian package on ubuntu ?
<Yagisan> StevenK, generally - no
<StevenK> You're looking at roughly 11Gb an arch
<StevenK> Plus another 11 for arch: all
<Yagisan> StevenK, excellent. That would eat my bandwidth quota nicely :(
* Yagisan kicks apt-cacher
<StevenK> Yes.
<StevenK> Hence why I haven't set one up.
* Yagisan will cry then go look for a nice guide to squid on dapper
<Lathiat> ust set the object size up a bit
<Lathiat> mainly
<StevenK> Yup, crank it up to what, 50Mb
<StevenK> Damn openoffice .debs
<Yagisan> Lathiat, I've never set squid up, but I'll keep that in mind when I do it
<Yagisan> StevenK, could be worse - I have source packages that are ~500MB
<Lathiat> Yagisan: squid is largely a matter of "apt-get install"
<Lathiat> you need to just configure a couple acls
<Lathiat> look for http_allow and acl iirc
<Lathiat> or search for 127.0.0.1
<Lathiat> its pretty self explanatory
<Yagisan> Lathiat, thanks mate
<AnAnt> I got a problem packaging a package
<AnAnt> I got a problem packaging a package, this package uses autoreconf -i to create configure & Makefile. Now, when the rules file runs $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp , it installs in $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/local
<AnAnt> how can I get rid of that /local thing ?
<azeem> run configure with --prefix=/usr
<AnAnt> oh yes, thanks !
<azeem> AnAnt: maybe you have to pass it to autoreconf -i
<AnAnt> how silly am I !
<AnAnt> ok, another question, I am making a new package called "fsplib"
<AnAnt> and there is a feature I'd like to enable on 'elinks' that depends on 'fsplib'
<AnAnt> will that be a problem since fsplib is not in the edgy repos  ?
<Hobbsee> !info elinks
<ubotu> elinks: advanced text-mode WWW browser. In component main, is optional. Version 0.10.6-1ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 825 kB, installed size 3292 kB
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: yes.  unless you get fsplib promoted to main too
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: yeah, I added a new build target called elinks-full
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: elinks-full target depends on stuff in universe
<Hobbsee> right, yep
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: and the elinks in dapper, has a target called elinks-lite which is in universe not main
* Hobbsee nods
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: so I don't thing that fsplib being in universe would be a problem
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: as that feature I want to add I will add in the elinks-full target
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> right, yep
<AnAnt> my question is about fsplib not being in the repos in the first place, as it is a new package
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: you need to have it in the repos before making anything depend on it, yes
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok, thanks
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok, that library I am packaging, the dh_make created this in the install target : $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: now, note that this is a library, when I build that package, the resulting fsplib0 & fsplib-dev packages neither contain the shared libs nor the header files
* Hobbsee knows nothing, nothing at all.
<Hobbsee> especially about libraries.
<AnAnt> oh ok
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: kubuntu is mad to drop gstreamer support
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: for amarok, or anything else?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: just saw the amarok changelog
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: upstream axed it
<StevenK> Hah, that'd be right.
<Burgundavia> they are nuts. Gstreamer actually works in 0.10
<Hobbsee> not according to them
<Burgundavia> however, kde is going for the phonon stuff
<Burgundavia> which will not remove their problem, merely abstract it one level down
<Hobbsee> they're looking at it again for amarok 1.4.3, if gstreamer works well enough for them, they said
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> When I used amarok, gstreamer was only engine that didn't make it crash every 15 minutes
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to actually get out of bed and go to work
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: you're in bed with your laptop?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: No, he's moved his desktop onto the bed.
<Hobbsee> hah
<AnAnt> can anyone help me in packaging a library ?
<tseng> Hobbsee: and what if he was?
<tseng> Hobbsee: its like we're all in bed with Burgundavia
<StevenK> tseng: Hey, that's not cool.
<StevenK> I don't even know Burgundavia that well.
* Hobbsee headdesks and eyerolls
<tseng> I can't top that
<tseng> I've got nothing
<geser> must sync request be ACKed by a motu?
<Hobbsee> yes
<AnAnt> what is the smallest library (in size) in Ubuntu ?
<geser> AnAnt: do you know already the Debian Library Packaging guide?
<AnAnt> geser: nope, where is it ?
<geser> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<bddebian> Heya gang
<AnAnt> bddebian: hello
<bddebian> Hello AnAnt
<AnAnt> bddebian: I uploaded the elinks package
<bddebian> AnAnt: After my comments?
<AnAnt> bddebian: huh ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: when did u do that ?
<bddebian> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2947
<bddebian> This morning :)
<AnAnt> ok, looking
<AnAnt> bddebian: as for the manpage error, what should I do about it ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: did you try doing linda & lintian on the elinks that is already in the edgy repos ?
<bddebian> Nope
<AnAnt> bddebian: I didn't change the manpages, that what I want to say, so I expect those problems to be in the packages that are in the repos
<bddebian> OK
<geser> could a motu please add an ACK to 57491? Thanks.
<geser> bug 57491
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57491 in rhythmbox-applet "[Sync Request]  music-applet 0.9.2-2" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57491
<AnAnt> bddebian: as for elinks-lite, I didn't change anything in it, so I beleive that warning "pkg-not-in-package-test" will be also in the package in the repos
<AnAnt> bddebian: I'll look at that makefile you mentioned
<bddebian> geser: Done
<bddebian> AnAnt: If those errors exist in the current package, note that.  Honestly I still get hung up on how much we vary from Debian
* welshbyte wakes up
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte
<welshbyte> ello bddebian
<bddebian> AnAnt: My personal thinking on this is since we are varying greatly from Debian (in this case adding an additional binary package) we should fix as many of the "errors" as we can at the same time.
<AnAnt_> bddebian: note that ?
<allee> siretart: Okay. I'll do the merge.  Only problem is that I'm a FAI beginner (only demohost experience yet) so I can't realy test it
<AnAnt_> bddebian: you said "If those errors exist in the current package, note that."
<bddebian> AnAnt_: Well again, my personal belief is that since you are varying so far from Debian already, the proper thing to do would be to fix those errors.  But you might want to ask a second opinion on that.
<AnAnt_> bddebian: I just checked, the Makefile.* are in the current package too
<AnAnt_> bddebian: am I varying so far from Debian by adding another build target ?
<AnAnt_> bddebian: especially that I am not touching the existing build targets ?
<azeem> s/build target/package/, no?
<bddebian> AnAnt_: Again "IN MY OPINION" :-)  You are adding a binary file to the archive
<AnAnt_> azeem: yeah, I think so
<bddebian> s/binary file/binary package/
<bddebian> And my opinion is usually worthless anyway :-)
<AnAnt_> who else should I ask then ?
<bddebian> AnAnt_: Crimsun, ajmitch, slomo, dholbach, etc
<AnAnt> can anyone tell me how to use dpatch ?
<AnAnt> or a URL
<AnAnt> I recall that it used to be in Ubuntu's packaging guide, dunno where it gone
<welshbyte> the man page is pretty good
<bddebian> AnAnt: To create a patch?
<AnAnt> bddebian: yeah
<bddebian> dpatch-edit-patch <name of patch>
<bddebian> Make changes
<bddebian> exit
<bddebian> Add <name of patch> to debian/00list
<AnAnt> there was an easier way with redirection (if I did have the diff file already)
<Arbiter> need review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2948 (kcmpureftpd - updated, should be fixed) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2949 (knowit)
<phanatic> evening
<bddebian> Heya Arbiter, phanatic
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<phanatic> anyone up for some reviews? :)
* bddebian hides
<maco> hey does anybody here know why it is that they're referred to as wpagui and wpasupplicant in the package manager and all but to run them it's wpa_gui and wpa_supplicant?
<phanatic> bddebian: :)
<phanatic> anyway, some links: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2942 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2937
<bddebian> phanatic: I'm a little busy atm but I will try in a bit
<bddebian> welshbyte: Still around?
<phanatic> the latter is already in the archives, just a new upstream release
<phanatic> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> Actually I'm not doing any "work" anymore, I just comment on specs ;-P
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, hi! I'm looking at olive
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga, thanks
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, was it a SoC project?
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: it was :)
<welshbyte> bddebian: aye, just munching on some pizza at the moment
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, nice :)
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<bddebian> welshbyte: Need some more work? :)
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: i hope it will get into edgy :)
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, I'm sure it will
<welshbyte> bddebian: i still have openvrml to finish merging but after that, sure
<bddebian> welshbyte: These should be easy ones :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: sounds good to me ;)
<Gloubiboulga> phanatic, maybe you shouldn't provide the debian/ dir with your source tarball
<Gloubiboulga> even if you're upstream and the maintainer :)
<phanatic> Gloubiboulga: i'm aware of that, the next release won't have it, i promise :)
<Arbiter> yawn
* Arbiter reads..
<Arbiter> oh hey bddebian :)
<cr3> how can I recommend a package so that it is eventually accepted in ubuntu?
<zul> i think there is something on the wiki
<Arbiter> bddebian: i've fixed the kcmpureftpd packages... it was a file conflict problem
<bddebian> Arbiter: Cool, I'll check it out
<Arbiter> (upstream provided a debian/ directory)
<Arbiter> the result was a mix of mine files with upstream ones :D
<Arbiter> (Makefile.am README.Debian, etc etc)
<bddebian> Oh, bad, bad.  I have that same issue with typo3 currently
<Arbiter> Riddell and Hobbsee told me to remove the debian/ from the .orig tarball
<bddebian> Aye
<Arbiter> bddebian: i've also uploaded knowit :)
<bddebian> Sheesh.. :-)
<Arbiter> Sheesh?
<Arbiter> ^^'
<bddebian> I can't keep up :-)
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: ping
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, pong
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: i have a question about your repository
<Arbiter> what do you use to manage it?
<Arbiter> (if you use any tool)
<Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, a tiny .sh script anf ftp :)
<Arbiter> :)
<Arbiter> cool :)
<AnAnt> I have a problem packaging a library (fsplib), it installs in debian/tmp/usr/{lib,include}
<AnAnt> so I got fsplib0.install file which contains: usr/lib/* , and fsplib-dev.install file which contains: usr/include/*
<AnAnt> yet, the resulting packages don't have anything in the lib & include dirs !
<AnAnt> I looked at an example package and I still can't understand the problem
<AnAnt> LaserJock: are you a MOTU reviewer ?
<AnAnt> crimsun: you there ?
<LaserJock> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> LaserJock: maybe that's why recover works for you
<AnAnt> ajmitch: you there ?
<LaserJock> well, I think it works because I've had an account for quite some time
<AnAnt> slomo: u there ?
<slomo> yes
<AnAnt> slomo: ok, I got a question regarding http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2947
<AnAnt> slomo: if the original package that is in the edgy repos had those warnings "manpage-has-errors-from-man", "pkg-not-in-package-test", and  existance of Makefile.* in debian/ , should I fix those issues when I do changes to the package ?
<AnAnt> slomo: especially that I am not changing anything in the elinks & elinks-lite build targets, I am only adding a new build target "elinks-full" ?
<AnAnt> :s/?//
<AnAnt> slomo: well ?
<slomo> don't fix them unless it's a really trivial change or necessary ;)
<AnAnt> slomo: ok, thanks
<AnAnt> bddebian: you there ?
<AnAnt> ok, later
<bddebian> slomo: Don't fix them?
<slomo> bddebian: it will only add a greater delta to debian which will cause more work while merging next times...
<bddebian> slomo: And adding an additional binary package didn't? :-)
<slomo> *shrug*
<bddebian> shrug? :-)
<lfittl> hello everybody :)
<bddebian> Heya lfittl
<lfittl> hi bddebian
<slomo> bddebian: it adds additional work which is most probably not necessary ;)
<bddebian> slomo: OK, what do I know.. :-)
<slomo> bddebian: well, i don't have a strong oppinion on whether they should be fixed or not :) do whatever you want ;)
<slomo> ok, reboot
<bddebian> slomo: I don't really have an opinoin either, my only thought was that if you are offsetting the delta that much anyway, fix the other stuff and send it all to Debian :)
<bddebian> To upload this package or not to upload.. That is the question...
<TMM> hey all!
<TMM> can someone please try something for me? apt-get install python-mysqldb and dpkg -L python-mysqldb ?
<TMM> for me, only the documentation is installed, but, when I build the source package everything is dandy
<TMM> apart from the fact that apt keeps thinking that it's an older version, and wants to 'update' it back to the empty version
<TMM> this is edgy btw :)
<cr3> in order to get a package into ubuntu, do I have to go through the Debian prospective package process?
<phanatic> cr3: it's not needed
<phanatic> cr3: you just have to upload it to revu
<welshbyte> TMM: could it be Bug #55047 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55047 in python-mysqldb "python-mysqldb doesn't actually install any python" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55047
<cr3> phanatic: revu?
<zul> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<phanatic> thanks zul :)
<zul> i try...most of the time
<cr3> ditto, thanks :)
<TMM> welshbyte: ... well, that MIGHT be the case
<TMM> welshbyte: :)
<bddebian> Hmm, how do I properly compress an old changelog file?
<zul> er gzip
<bddebian> In rules?
<zul> yep..
<crimsun> as opposed to dh_installman(1)?
<crimsun> (and debian/foo.manpages)
<Sp4rKy> hey
<Sp4rKy> http://pastebin.ca/147932
<Sp4rKy> does anyone could help me with this ....
<crimsun> ...more specifically?
<bddebian> Oh, still the /debian/foo problem?
<welshbyte> probably more helpful to pastebin your debian/rules file
* welshbyte starts to wish g++ showed a progress bar
<welshbyte> bddebian: you might want to tell me what those jobs are now, i could probably deal with them before openvrml finishes building
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Actually I think I am getting them done myself but thanks
* bddebian looks for more work for welshbyte :)
<welshbyte> ok :)
<Sp4rKy> sorry
<Sp4rKy> so, does anyone could help me with this ....
<welshbyte> Sp4rKy: probably more helpful to pastebin your debian/rules file
<welshbyte> or at least the relevant part
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Aye can you paste your rules file
<Sp4rKy> welshbyte, bddebian of course
<Sp4rKy> http://pastebin.ca/147958
<slomo> do you have a debian/eutils.install file?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: build-stamp:  config.status
<bddebian>         dh_testdir
<bddebian> 
<bddebian>         # Add here commands to compile the package.
<bddebian>         $(MAKE)
<bddebian> You are running make twice
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<azeem> bddebian: how so?
<slomo> bddebian: hm?
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> Oh, I can't read
<bddebian> NM
<ivoks> doh, cups bugs :(
<welshbyte> maybe the configure script probably runs make itself
<welshbyte> s/probably //
<Sp4rKy> so ...
<Sp4rKy> just comment the $(MAKE)
<Sp4rKy> or patch the configure ...
<welshbyte> you shouldn't need to patch configure
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, bddebian why twice ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: No, I was wrong.  Stupid split screen
<Sp4rKy> :p
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> so i always don't understand
<Sp4rKy> confiugre doesn't run make
<welshbyte> actually, make is being run in build-stamp: and install:
<welshbyte> oh, not make install
<welshbyte> ignore me :)
<Sp4rKy> :p
<shawarma> bddebian: you rang, sir?
<Sp4rKy> so, my rules seems good
<Sp4rKy> and configure doesn't seem buggued
<Sp4rKy> ...
<Sp4rKy> where is my issue
<Sp4rKy> ???
<slomo> Sp4rKy: debian/eutils.install exists?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> Sp4rKy-laptop% cat debian/eutils.install
<Sp4rKy> debian/eutils/usr/bin/*
<Sp4rKy> debian/eutils/usr/share/*
<bddebian> shawarma: Not recently, did I?
<slomo> Sp4rKy: try again after removing that file ;)
<Sp4rKy> slomo, really ?
<slomo> really
<slomo> it's at least unnecessary in your case
<slomo> and maybe the cause for this problem
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> i try
<shawarma> bddebian: Not sure. My irc client just gave me the time of day.
<bddebian> shawarma: Ah, Hmm
<shawarma> bddebian: ...so it could be anytime between earlier today and about a week ago when I was last online.
<bddebian> shawarma: I think it was about a week ago
<shawarma> bddebian: perhaps something about asterisk?
<shawarma> bddebian: I never got that upload sponsored btw. crimsun pointed out that -3 was right around the corner, so I figured I'd wait. This is the updated patch, if you're up for it: http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/asterisk-merge.diff
<Sp4rKy> slomo, bddebian always the same issue
<shawarma> hmm... what makes an app show up in the gnome applet management thing?
<shawarma> the .server file in /usr/lib/bonobo/servers, perhaps?
<slomo> shawarma: yes
<Sp4rKy> i have to go
<Sp4rKy> if you have any idea, ping me tomorrow :p
<shawarma> slomo: Ok. Thanks.
* shawarma smacks his forehead and sighs at lousy translations
<shawarma> I've heard about this deskbar-applet SO many times and people are going mad about it, so I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about. I went to the applet management thing to find it, but it wasn't there. I checked if it was installed, which it was..
<slomo> how is it called in your language? :)
<shawarma> well, it turns out that some genious translated "Deskbar applet" to "Kommandofelt" in Danish, which means "command field". No wonder I couldn't find it.
<shawarma> why do I always type genious, when I mena genius?
<shawarma> and "mena" when I mena "mean"? :-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> go play some Mao or something, you can't type today ;-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: Yeah. Been away from the keyboard for too long. I've had a good, looong holiday this summer. :-)
<LaserJock> slacker :-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: In my defense I have to say that I had been misled to believe that the bed'n'breakfast place I stayed at in Italy was equipped with some sort of computer for internet access.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> excuses, excuses :p
<shawarma> LaserJock: ...so of course I left my laptop at home. Well, it turns out that there WAS internet in the house. Wifi-style. And there I was without my laptop.
<crimsun> eh? If I ever get to take a vacation, I'm definitely going to enjoy the break from the 'net.
<shawarma> LaserJock: The first day was ok. I was tired after travelling anyway, but during the next couple of days I noted 37 things I would have looked up somewhere on the internet if I could.
<shawarma> crimsun: Well, I need to stay in touch with "reality" because of my business.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I know the feeling, but then I just sit there the whole time thinking "I could be doing X if I had my  laptop with me"
<LaserJock> my net addiction, terrible
<shawarma> My wrists are feeling a lot better after that week without touching a keyboard, though.
<LaserJock> I bet
<LaserJock> my biggest problem is my eyes
<LaserJock> 12+ hrs of staring at a screen is no good
<tseng> one finger, both wrists, right arm
<tseng> are in increasingly bad shape
<tseng> going to have to do something soon
<shawarma> tseng: I've got the wrist support things that I put on when it gets really bad. They help a LOT. I really should use them all the time.
<crimsun> tseng: are you using workrave or rsibreak?
<tseng> crimsun: nope.
<tseng> i do get up and walk around every hour or two
<tseng> for a few minutes
<crimsun> cool
<crimsun> I ended up switching away from qwerty
<shawarma> workrave is really good. Especially the exercise things it shows.
<tseng> i think the layout of my desk atm is pretty bad
<tseng> i have a full size keyboard here
<tseng> and the desk angles
<tseng> the mouse kind of slides off to the side
<tseng> and is awkward to get
<tseng> picture time
<tseng> at home i have the happy hacker keyboard
<tseng> i think that could help here
<lfittl> help needed: in the following scenario (gnupg package, needs the scard group to support openpgp smartcards), the user creates the scard group for some reason on his own, how should postinst and postrm react? They would normally create/remove the group.
<shawarma> I used to do them in the office. The other guys pointed and laughed the first couple of days. Within a couple of weeks everyone was doing it.
<tseng> shawarma: oh, i dont remember them
<crimsun> lfittl: use a bail case
<shawarma> tseng: workrave has three kinds of breaks. micro breaks, coffee breaks and something else breaks. During those something else breaks it shows some exercises you can do.
<tseng> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tseng/223930877/
<lfittl> crimsun: a bail case? what do you mean?
<tseng> i think this is a problem
<crimsun> lfittl: e.g., in the postinst, make sure groupadd -f is used, then you'll probably want to touch some type of indicator file that denotes the group existed prior to postinst being executed. Then in the postinst, check for the existence of the indicator file before removing the group.
<tseng> esp the keyboard and mouse sliding all over
<tseng> at odd angles
<crimsun> sorry, that last sentence should read "in the postrm"
<tseng> i could tape it dow
<tseng> n
<lfittl> crimsun: sounds good, where should I store that indicator file?
<crimsun> lfittl: you don't have to use a file per se. I would probably use a debconf key.
<welshbyte> meep, this build is taking up over 1GB of memory :/
<shawarma> welshbyte: what are you building?
<slomo> eclipse? :)
<welshbyte> shawarma: openvrml
<bddebian> welshbyte: "FUN" isn't it? ;-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: oh hell yeah :)
<lfittl> crimsun: hmm, I am searching for a solution that gets accepted into gnupg before FF. Do you think the patch would be accepted if a debconf key is used? (it sounds rather complicated to me)
<crimsun> lfittl: upstream (Debian)? If so, you'll want to coordinate with elmo.
<lfittl> crimsun: first ubuntu, debian is the next step
<lfittl> s/next/following/
<azeem> lfittl: what priority?
<crimsun> personally I don't think the debconf key is _that_ bad
<lfittl> crimsun: I assume you mean I should still talk to elmo about it? :)
<lfittl> azeem: you mean what priority that change has?
<crimsun> since he maintains the Debian package, it would be a good idea to at least get his opinion first
<azeem> what debconf priority the question would have (unless I misunderstood)
<crimsun> again, I'd take elmo's opinion over mine in this regard, since he's more experienced with the package
<lfittl> azeem: ah, there is no need for a question, it's just for internal purpose to preserve an existing group after package removal
<lfittl> crimsun: k, will try to get in contact with elmo, thanks for your help
<shawarma> Does anyone know why rawstudio hasn't been built yet? the upload was accepted three weeks ago. It's listed here https://launchpad.net/people/shawarma/+packages but it doesn't turn up anywhere else.
<tseng> binary new?
* tseng looks
<shawarma> tseng: huh?
<tseng> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=raw
<tseng> its in source NEW
<tseng> every new source package is put in a queue for manual review
<tseng> before being allowed in
<tseng> then it builds, and is in binary review
<tseng> it finally goes in after that
<lfittl> crimsun: just had another idea, how about using delgroup --system in postrm, and forget about the whole debconf/indicator file stuff?
<tseng> subsequent source and binaries of the same name go right in
<shawarma> tseng: binary review?
<tseng> shawarma: whats to explain?
<tseng> each new binary name has to be manually approved
<shawarma> tseng: Well, I understand why the biuld has to be manually approved (the build is run as root), but what does the binary review encompass?
<tseng> someone looks at it
<tseng> says "oh"
<tseng> and clicks ok
<shawarma> tseng: LOL
<tseng> most of the review is on the license of the source package
<tseng> and general sanity check
<shawarma> Ok. and how long does this process last?
<tseng> i doubt anyone really looks at the binary
<tseng> shawarma: indefinately
<tseng>  < Keybuk> NEW isn't a FIFO, it's more of a FISO | < Keybuk> (Shiniest out)
<shawarma> am I supposed to bug someone to look at it or does it just happen?
<tseng> no
<tseng> you wait
<tseng> and wait
<zul> and wait
<tseng> in Debian, you would wait some more
<tseng> and some more
<shawarma> should I expect it to happen before edgy release?
<tseng> ubuntu is *generally* pretty fast
<tseng> but not lately
<crimsun> lfittl: that doesn't seem to cover the case you're using it for
<tseng> shawarma: you can hope
<azeem> the sprint is in effect
<tseng> I won't promise you anything
<crimsun> lfittl: meaning it will still remove the group
<tseng> i imagine it will become a piority to clean up pretty soon
<tseng> (After the summit)
<tseng> azeem: it was dead slow before
<tseng> around the point release and kamions vacation
<azeem> tseng: maybe it is inversely coupled to Debian's NEW processing :)
<tseng> its been some weeks
<crimsun> lfittl: unless I misinterpreted you, your intent is to _not_ remove the group in postrm if the group existed prior to postinst being executed
<shawarma> tseng: right, ok. I guess it's the archive team that does this, right?
<tseng> azeem: quite possible, debian was down to zero there :)
<tseng> shawarma: uh, mostly
<tseng> same peopel atm
<tseng> but not nessecarily
<crimsun> lfittl: IOW, "if it existed before [the sysadmin created it manually] , then don't touch the group"
<lfittl> crimsun: my intention is primary to not remove the group if the user created it on purpose before, but he most propably won't create it as a system group
<shawarma> tseng: Ok. Thanks for clearing this up.
<tseng> shawarma: np
<tseng> heading home
<crimsun> lfittl: but can you be sure that the user didn't?
<shawarma> tseng: cheers.
<lfittl> crimsun: the group is only used for smartcard reader device file permissions, and the gnupg howto about that doesn't use a system group
<lfittl> crimsun: also, why would somebody remove the gnupg package?
<crimsun> lfittl: something like delgroup --only-if-empty --system   might be appropriate
<lfittl> crimsun: hmm
<lfittl> crimsun: will create a patch with this solution, and wait for elmo's comment about it
<crimsun> lfittl: our intent as packagers should be to not think "why wouldn't this happen" but "what should be done when it happens", since software engineering practices have demonstrated that if there's a possibility something can happen, it probably will :)
<lfittl> crimsun: :)
<lfittl> crimsun: one last question, sry for asking you all this, what happens if the user downgrades the package, is the postrm/purge target called?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<crimsun> lfittl: no prob. Quite probably, yes.
<crimsun> lfittl: see section 6.5 at [http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s6.1] 
<lfittl> crimsun: ah thanks, I always miss the parts I am searching for :)
<bddebian> Time to head home.  Later folks
<Noumaan> It seems like we can not do much progress on Urdu Translation until we have Urdu fonts available in repositories :(
<Noumaan> I am trying to get in touch with some one to get thsi work done. So that I could create a Wiki Page and invite people to help us
<Noumaan> Ubuntu's language support for Urdu package has no font dependency. By default Ubuntu comes with no decent font to view, create or modify Urdu documents. The most popular Urdu Font http://www.crulp.org/nafeesWebNaskh.html is available for grab how could we get it in the Ubuntu Desktop?
<Noumaan> Some one should atleast add this font in Universe so that I could tell people to apt-get it
<crimsun> are the packages on revu?
<Noumaan> crimsun:  what is revu?
<crimsun> see the topic
<crimsun> unless you've submitted the source packages through revu, there's not much that can be done
<Noumaan> I am not the owner or the creator of the font. but it is freely available at the above mentioned page with a license that allows us to use, modify and redistribute the font
<crimsun> so why don't you package the font(s) and submit the source package(s) to revu?
<Noumaan> how do I do that?
<crimsun> do what?
<Noumaan> package the font and submit the source package?
<crimsun> package the font(s)? Following the packaging guide and examples from other ttf-* font packages. See the URL in the topic for submitting to REVU.
<Noumaan> ok I was working on the wiki page but I guess I will have to first get the font added :(
<lfittl> crimsun: do you have some time for a review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931?
<crimsun> not atm, sorry.
<lfittl> np, just searching for reviewers ;)
<lfittl> anybody else interested / have some time for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931
<Noumaan> crimsun: I just found that this package is already listen in Debians Package List
<crimsun> Noumaan: which package?
<Noumaan> The font Package Nafees Web Naskh http://packages.debian.org/testing/x11/ttf-nafees
<crimsun> and indeed, it's in Ubuntu Edgy
<crimsun> $ apt-cache madison ttf-nafees
<crimsun> ttf-nafees |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<crimsun> ttf-nafees |      1.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<Noumaan> how do we install it in Dapper?
<crimsun> dev work isn't done against 6.06.1 LTS
<crimsun> you should be targetting Edgy at this point
<Noumaan> one last question
<Noumaan> how could we get a package moved from universe to default, seeing as Ubuntu doesnt have a font with urdu language support pack nafees is the perfect candidate
<crimsun> Noumaan: file a main inclusion report (MIR) [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements] .
<Noumaan> crimsun:  Thank you so much :)
<lfittl> crimsun: whats the best time to talk to elmo? (as I said, FF comes closer, want to get this finished)
<LaserJock> I would say email
<lfittl> LaserJock: good, thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-25
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> What's the proper procedure to request a dapper-update or security, etc?
<lfittl> gn8 everybody
<crimsun> bddebian: that's two different questions. Which are you asking?
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> crimsun: I'm not sure.  The typo3 upload fixes a security bug (hopefully) but is also a newer version.
<azeem> could you backport the fix?
<bddebian> azeem: Yes since it's mostly a source package that just lays a directory structure
<bddebian> Or do you mean to the current version?
<azeem> to the current version
<crimsun> if you want it in dapper-security, generate a debdiff against the current dapper package, then upload it to security-review
<LaserJock> anybody know a good way to compare the "last modified" time on 2 files ?
<LaserJock> in a shell script
<crimsun> bddebian: in debian/changelog, you need to include brief descriptions of the security issue(s) and the fix(es) (reference the affected functions in said files), and point to the CVE # and Debian BTS report if available
<bddebian> Ugh
<crimsun> it's not difficult, just takes some effort.
<bddebian> I personally think it's a waste of time for this package but I'm not sure what I "should" do
<crimsun> a few of us have been doing it since hoary
<crimsun> it's up to you. universe is best-effort.
<crimsun> from a distro perspective, we certainly need increased security coverage
<crimsun> from a pragmatic perspective for us [volunteers] , you need to decide whether it's worth the opportunity cost
<bddebian> opportunity cost.. Hah.  I don't even know if anything I do is "worthwhile" :-)
<crimsun> ok mister top-ten ubuntu contributor.
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> Gotta always throw something in my face dontcha :)
<azeem> bddebian: depends on whether you evaluate this from your own or from our user's POV :)
<bddebian> azeem: What do you mean by "this"?
<crimsun> this issue that you raise
<azeem> 'I don't even know if anything I do is "worthwhile"'
<LaserJock> crimsun: where's the top-ten list?
<bddebian> crimsun: Well I'm certainly not unwilling to do it but I would probably need help/guidance
<bddebian> azeem: The users wouldn't even have a clue who I am :-)
<azeem> bddebian: they would still appreciate it
<crimsun> LaserJock: don't remember, sorry. bddebian pointed it to me last week.
<azeem> giggle
<bddebian> I did not
<bddebian> Grr
<LaserJock> I see a top-5
<LaserJock> which is pretty predictable
<bddebian> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<bddebian> Oh, hehe
<LaserJock> wow #6
<LaserJock> holly cow
<crimsun> now you have proof. Anytime the deity says something about not being able to do something, just fling that back in his face. :D
<azeem> bddebian: whoa, you've almost crossed the 1M karma line!
<Fujitsu> Yep, it's a nice page...
<Lathiat> haha
<LaserJock> crimsun: you're #14 on bugs
<bddebian> azeem: Aye, scary huh :-)
<LaserJock> haha, rodarvus is on the bug list, poor guy
<bddebian> crimsun: Were you at the meeting when I tried for core-dev?  Even they said that all my changes are small, etc, etc
<crimsun> bddebian: I think actually you said that.
<LaserJock> I think that was about main though
<LaserJock> nobody doubts your contribution to Universe
<bddebian> crimsun: Actually no, I didn't.  And while I don't disagree that I have done little for main and may not have deserved core-dev, not one person piped up in my "defense"
<crimsun> bddebian: there was nothing to defend, nor is there anything "deserved". That's the wrong way to look at core-dev.
<bddebian> Maybe defense was a poor choice of words and I didn't say I deserved anything
<Fujitsu> So, the distribution-related karma only counts from 2006/08/01, doesn't it?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: No clue, sorry
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure that's what it said...
<LaserJock> obviously that's why I'm not in the top 5
<bddebian> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> haha, sometimes I make myself laugh ;-)
<bddebian> Oh, hehe :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: You are off the chart.. :-)
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<LaserJock> ohhh, here is the other top ubuntu contributor
<crimsun> now our venerable Hobbsee is in not one but BOTH charts
<bddebian> Both?
<crimsun> both distro and bugs
<bddebian> Oh
<LaserJock> it's Miss #8 herself ;-)
<crimsun> (not including translations right this moment, not to dismiss their importance)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
* ajmitch isn't anywhere in sight
<crimsun> yes you are in bugs
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<Hobbsee> miss #8?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: which charts were these?
<Fujitsu> I'm nowhere yet, no surprise :P
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Hobbsee> ohh...in overall and bugs
<ajmitch> crimsun: that doesn't count
<crimsun> bahaha
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you are on the bug list
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why not?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+topcontributors
<ajmitch> I'll be off that list soon enough
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yep, i eventually realised
<LaserJock> yeah whatever
* Hobbsee wants to know what the rewards are for being on that list
* ajmitch gets back to work
<Hobbsee> apart from bragging rights, of course :P
<crimsun> LaserJock: you don't need to be on either; you're already mister celebrity/raging ubuntu-aholic motu
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, I'm on it all all I get is shit.. ;-P
<LaserJock> haha
<crimsun> that's all we get from our users ;)
<Fujitsu> crimsun, probably true.
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> sometimes you get a appreciative person
<LaserJock> it's cool
<ajmitch> maybe you do..
<Hobbsee_> argh, waht'd i miss?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee_*, you really seem to have been having connection issues lately...
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee{_*}, probably...
<LaserJock> hmm, apparently I haven't been doing much lately
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, rather.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the uni connection is a bit odd
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Hobbsee> i dont know why this just dropped though
<LaserJock> darn, I need to look through teams to join too
<LaserJock> when did universe-sponsors come about?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: when i went for -core
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, a couple of weeks back.
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, gosh knows motu-science doesn't have enough to do ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I missed that
<LaserJock> heh, have you seen the list lately?
<bddebian> I asked to join the games team and didn't even get accepted there.. :'-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, is it up again?
<LaserJock> gimme a sec and I'll have a fresh one for you
<LaserJock> I need to go through bugs
<bddebian> For me?  That's azeem's job now.. ;-P
<LaserJock> I haven't uploaded anything for a while
<LaserJock> I'm hardly even a MOTU these days :(
<bddebian> yeah, celebrity has that affect ;-P
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> I guess :/
<welshbyte> man that build is still chugging along
<Hobbsee> yay.  i can get kopete backported
<welshbyte> i feel like a gentoo user
<bddebian> welshbyte: Still openvrml?
<welshbyte> bddebian: yup
<bddebian> welshbyte: Brutal isn't it
<welshbyte> same file has been compiling for 7 hours
<bddebian> Egads
<bddebian> That's worse than glibc on GNU/Hurd :-)
<Fujitsu> Yep, openvrml is large.
* LaserJock puts openvrml on his list of packages not to touch ;-)
<welshbyte> it might be faster if i had more memory but it's chewing up my big swap partition
<welshbyte> my poor hard drive :(
<bddebian> welshbyte: It killed my laptop, hence why I ask you to take a look :-)
* Fujitsu hugs welshbyte's HDD.
<bddebian> hehe
<welshbyte> heh
<welshbyte> it had better not fail after all this time ;)
<LaserJock> woot, up to 87 outdated packages in Edgy :-)
<Fujitsu> That'd be great...
<bddebian> LaserJock: Just for science?
<LaserJock> yep
<welshbyte> what counts as outdated?
* Fujitsu wonders why 3 of his merges subscribed to ubuntu-universe-sponsors got uploaded by different people 2 days ago, while the other 3 haven't been touched.
<LaserJock> welshbyte: Debian unstable has a newer version
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i havent looked
<LaserJock> hmm, and it looks like there might be a few NEW packages from Debian to pick up
* Hobbsee has some merges to look at here too.
<Fujitsu> New ones? Fun.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<bddebian> Fujitsu: What packages?
* bddebian just did 1 merge and 1 sync
<LaserJock> there are 27 science apps in Debian that Edgy doesn't have, most of them are non-free but I see a few dfsg ones came up
<Fujitsu> Lessee... lcd4linux (bug #57068), drivel (bug #57073), and xchm (bug #57082).
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57068 in lcd4linux "Please review merge of lcd4linux" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57068
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57073 in drivel "Please review merge of drivel" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57073
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57082 in xchm "Please review merge of xchm" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57082
<Fujitsu> Acked sync requests should be approved, shouldn't they?
<gnomefreak> btw just to inform everyone nvidia released the new drivers ;) they are kind of iffy (i have to work on htem tomorrow on edgy)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: acking == approving
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Oh, I thought you meant on REVU
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, one of mine was acked without being changed to Confirmed.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh.  did they subscribe the archive anyway?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yes.
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnomefreak, yay
<bddebian> Don't subscribe ubuntu-archive for merges
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then it doesnt really matter.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I'm looking at lcd4linux right now
<Fujitsu> And I /do/ have a package on REVU, but I've not dealt with it lately.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: as long as keybuk sees the MOTU approving it, then he'll do the sync.
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee has quite a few
<Fujitsu> OK, thanks Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> I haven't actually asked anybody to review it yet :P
<Hobbsee> heh
* bddebian now KNOWS that no one listens to him
<Fujitsu> bddebian, looking at my sync?
<gnomefreak> Kamping_Kaiser: something is really wrong with them so once i figure out what is needed i will let whomever is working on them know
<Fujitsu> *merge
<Hobbsee> bddebian: we are listening to you :P
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I don't listen to you, as you'd sound pretty quiet from all the way over here :P
<bddebian> Fujitsu: If it still requires Ubuntu changes, it is a merge NOT a sync and ubuntu-archive admins do not to merges
<gnomefreak> right now the drivers are building thier own modules for X since they dont like ubuntu's modules i guess
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnomefreak, :/ fix a bug, but cant use the fix, wonderfull
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I corrected myself.
<gnomefreak> well if i get them working im hoping they fix the bug i reported today on nvidia
<Hobbsee> bddebian: sensible, really.  neither does the ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Kamping_Kaiser> (having my fonts will be awsome, i'm a month beyhind on debian-devel)
<bddebian> Fujitsu: You debdiff'd the current Ubuntu version against your changes?
<Fujitsu> I debdiffed my changes against the current Ubuntu one, yes.
<bddebian> Ok
<bddebian> Hmm, looks odd
<Fujitsu> ?
<Fujitsu> Which, lcd4linux?
<bddebian> The only things that changed are the changelog and control?
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> OK
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i found i had trouble building that one, actually
<Hobbsee> a while ago
<LaserJock> darn it, it never ceases to amaze me how frustrating a terminal can be
<Fujitsu> :O
<Fujitsu> How, LaserJock?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Hmm, worked for me :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I just checked, and it builds fine.
<Hobbsee> cool
<Fujitsu> Good, bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> this was a while ago
<LaserJock> well, I usually run a dark background, so the default blue color for directories is hard to read
<Hobbsee> like, a few weeks, i think
<Fujitsu> Ah, yeah...
<jabra> hey guys
<LaserJock> so I set up a dircolors thing
<LaserJock> but for the life of me I can't get my one box to take it
<jabra> perl questions. how can I used man1pods with a Makefile.PL but still properly make a manpage.1
<jabra> it can be created but the .TH says .1p
<jabra> wondering if I can pass like a -s 1 options like pod2man
<jabra> which would fix this
<Quinn_Storm> hey guys, I know this might not be the best place to ask (but I have seen some of the other questions fly by), so anyhow...I'm adding an icon to cgwd-themer for its x-mimetype (application-x-cgwdtheme), and I wanted to know the proper ubuntu/debianized way of doing this
<TheMuso> Yey. The xawtv build problem to do with asm/page.h is now fixed in Debian.
* TheMuso merges.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yay!
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: indeed
<TheMuso> I didn't want to do it again till I saw there was some evidence of the problem having been fixed somehow.
<TheMuso> As it is nice to have a package build ok on all arches.
<Fujitsu> Thanks, bddebian :)
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I can't get the drivel diff to apply
<Fujitsu> I'll check that out...
<LaserJock> ok, I got the computer to display the colors right, but now when I log in from a different machine it doesn't work :/
<Fujitsu> What fails, bddebian?
* imbrandon pokes LaserJock and bddebian in the ribs with two fingers and runs to hide behind a c++ compiler
<LaserJock> grrrr
* imbrandon hides better
<LaserJock> it'll take more than a C++ compiler
<Quinn_Storm> I dunno, those are some hairy beasts, lots of room to hide
<LaserJock> maybe a Java VM
<imbrandon> heh , whats up with your colors ? /me got in late on the convo
<imbrandon> heya Quinn
<Quinn_Storm> hi
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Now that I think about it, is this even valid?  You are losing the orig.tar.gz by doing it this way?
<Quinn_Storm> I'm trying to figure out...what's the "proper" way to package an icon for a custom mime-type with a program?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: bah, well I usually change the terminal colors (like blue for directories) because I use a black background
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but for some reason my box wasn't taking the usual settings
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm: your work gettign the xgl stuff into ubuntu with ajmitch got the attn of sabdfl yesterday ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: now I got it fixed on the box, but when I login remotely it doesn't work
<bddebian> Quinn_Storm: What does an icon have to do with mime-types?
<Quinn_Storm> imbrandon: cool
<Fujitsu> bddebian, this is the way non-MOTUs are meant to do it.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: ahh
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Says who?
<Quinn_Storm> bddebian: its an icon for a mime-type, like a default icon so it doesn't show up as "unknown type" since it is known & handled
<bddebian> Quinn_Storm: Ooohh, sorry, I mis-understood you
<Quinn_Storm> 'sok
<bddebian> Quinn_Storm: Sorry, don't know that one
<Quinn_Storm> I don't want to just blindly dump it into /usr/share/icons/default or whatever, because that just seems bad practice, I'm sure there's a real way
<gnux123> How can I know that my packages are already uploaded in REVU?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: You should probably be doing your debdiff against the latest Debian version
<imbrandon> LaserJock: the remote login is handeled diff in the .bashrc/profile
<bddebian> gnux123: Check LaunchPad?
<imbrandon> gnux123: packages.ubuntu.com ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, I just can't figure it out :-)
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I thought that, but I was told on more than one occasion by more than one person that it should be between the Ubuntu versions.
<imbrandon> hehe one sec i'll look, i think mine has diff setup for remote maybe i can give you an example
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: a bit of googling tells me that debian follows http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html
<bddebian> Fujitsu: If the versions are the same I would agree, but going from 1.8 to 1.9, I would disagree with whoever said that
<bddebian> Of course, I am wrong often :-)
<Quinn_Storm> welshbyte: ok, I'll look into it ^-^
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: i hope it's helpful ;)
<Quinn_Storm> yeah, though the spec is kinda weird...it kinda relies on apps to make sure they don't conflict in the namespace
<Quinn_Storm> which...IMO...is kinda dumb
<LaserJock> yeah, never rely on upstream ;-)
<Fujitsu> OK, I shall produce a diff between latest Debian and my new one. Wait a sec.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: NP, thanks
<welshbyte> dh_installicons would be tasty
<welshbyte> if it existed
<Quinn_Storm> yeah..maybe there's something with the mime helpers that's already there...I mean the package already registers a mime-type
<Fujitsu> Attached to the bug, bddebian.
<gnux123> bddebian: is not yet there?
<bddebian> gnux123: What's the package?
<gnux123> asterisk_1.2.10.dfsg-3ubuntu2
<gnux123> I use dput to upload it on revu.
* imbrandon mumbles about flying toasters as he heads for more mt dew
<bddebian> gah, someone just sent me an asterisk diff today.. Hmm
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, mt dew fill fix anything
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, a friend named his laptop flying-toaster, after that screensaver.
<gnux123> Yah, I upload it yesterday?
<imbrandon> hahah yea LaserJock
* imbrandon 's laptop is named intrepid
<LaserJock> mine is electron, go figure
<imbrandon> and a build machine called voyager and enterprise fileserver and challenger and birdofprey and hmmm a few others
<LaserJock> ohhh noooo
<LaserJock> a Trekie
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> couldent rember enough sg1 planets , plus pxj-449 is kinda hard to rember
<imbrandon> ;)
<Quinn_Storm> lol
* Quinn_Storm was real creative....'athlon'
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon> heh sounds like hobbsee with "sarah" ;) i've been buggin her months to change it ;)
<imbrandon> electron, thats kinda cool though
<imbrandon> wifes called proton LaserJock ?
<imbrandon> heh
* Quinn_Storm should name her new box atlantis, and call this one something boring...when she ifnally gets her new box
<LaserJock> one of the theoretical groups in the dept. used, luck chance fate chaos ,etc.
<imbrandon> hahah sweet
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Which package?  xchm?
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no, my wife's laptop (yeah right) is electron. My desktop is proton
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> I also have a photon and lambda at work
<bddebian> Oh, drivel
<LaserJock> with all the lasers and all
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> nice
<LaserJock> and we have a HP printer named motor as we are doing nanoscale motor research
<imbrandon> hahahah cool , good your group atleaste has a nerd sense of humor ;)
<LaserJock> my boss uses mountain names in the area though for his computers
<imbrandon> lol i did that when i was in reno
<imbrandon> mt names that is
<LaserJock> well, one I really like is an organic chemistry lab that uses old west cowboys
<imbrandon> i was going to do casino names but never got arround to it
<LaserJock> earp, cody, annie, etc.
<imbrandon> ;)
<bddebian> Fujitsu: OK, close but the changelog isn't applying :-)
<LaserJock> somehow I just can't imaging hilton peppermill atlantis nugget harahs
<imbrandon> my old job in nashville the it group named them all star wars planets like kashyyyk , tatooine , coruscant , etc
<imbrandon> it was kinda cool
<imbrandon> and what got me started on cool/funny names instead of generic ones was, my first ISP named the dsn servers instead of ns1.domain.com ns2.domain.com it was itchy.domain.com and scratchy.domain.com ;)
<imbrandon> i'll never forget that even though i forgot the isp LOL
<Fujitsu> bddebian, that's really odd...
<Fujitsu> I think we must be going from a different Debian version...
* Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Indeed, 2.0.3-2 has been released since I produced this.
<Fujitsu> I'll redo it, wait a sec.
* welshbyte named his laptop plato
<bddebian> Fujitsu: OK, sorry man
<LaserJock> welshbyte: got an aristotle?
<Fujitsu> No, my problem. I should have checked that :)
<welshbyte> LaserJock: yup, it's in my parents' house :)
* bddebian renamed his laptop to hdisbeggingformercy
<imbrandon> heh
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<Quinn_Storm> too many pbuilders?
<bddebian> Yep :-)
* imbrandon uses 4 pbuilders and 2 chroots
<LaserJock> if I had 3 I'd go, good bad ugly ;-)
* Quinn_Storm cheats and when she doesn't need to verify deps, runs an "open" pbuilder (doesn't bother to clean or targz itself back up after)
<imbrandon> Quinn_Storm: thats basicly a chroot
<imbrandon> ;)
<Quinn_Storm> yep, but pbuilder does the boring work for me
<LaserJock> yeah
<gnux123> Yeah
<LaserJock> I need to figure out how to use pbuilder more that way
* Quinn_Storm looks up her script and pastebins it
* Quinn_Storm glares at gedit and edgy's gtk in general, if you try to use a file widget that is currently set to an invalid dir, an app crashes
* welshbyte strokes vim lovingly
<Quinn_Storm> http://thestonepedo.pastebin.ca/148400 - my often-used 'release' script
* Quinn_Storm loves vim too, just can't use it easily to get copy+paste of more than one screen for pastebin
* Quinn_Storm does all her dev in vim
* bddebian slides nano under welshbyte's vim
* Quinn_Storm shudders at nano...though she did first learn pico over ten years ago...
<welshbyte> bddebian: ...wrong.... just... wrong.
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> welshbyte: Well at least you said vim and not Emacs so I won't beat you too badly ;-P
<welshbyte> hehe
<Quinn_Storm> so yeah, that is my bastard of a release script, it's very nice because all my cvs modules that I release as packages are easy to deal with
* LaserJock hides his Emacs window real quick
<welshbyte> emacs is a nice operating system but it lacks a decent text editor
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<LaserJock> who uses it as a text editor? ;-)
<welshbyte> can't remember who said that
* Quinn_Storm learned vim first....that's about all there is to it
<LaserJock> it's my PIM app
<LaserJock> :-)
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: me too :)
<Quinn_Storm> lol, my cell phone does that (pim)
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I've redone it all.
<LaserJock> I learned emacs a bit first, then learned vim (which I really like) and am back using emacs mostly
<Quinn_Storm> also I have a script, 'dchi', that increments the source version and resets the extra version string to -0ubuntu1
<Quinn_Storm> the strange things you need when you are both cvs maintainer and packager...
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: btw do you use vim7? it has a command to copy hilighted (with visual mode) text to the X clipboard
<Quinn_Storm> ok cool, yeah, never learned of that command yet
* Quinn_Storm uses edgy, so...whatever edgy has
<welshbyte> it's "*y and you can paste from the clipboard with "*p
<gnux123> welshbyte: can I actually copy that to x clipboard?
<welshbyte> oops, no that wasn't the command, sorry... those were commands to copy between vims
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<Quinn_Storm> though I should remember those too
<Quinn_Storm> I often tabbed terminal and wonder why I can't paste
<welshbyte> ...or maybe it is :)
<Quinn_Storm> lol
* Quinn_Storm is amazed nobody derided her for her crappy script
<gnux123> Im using different one. V mode then yank for copy and d for cut
<tseng> its alot of script
<tseng> thats for sure
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> not sure what else to say
<Quinn_Storm> lol
* Quinn_Storm goes back to deciding wether or not to break cgwd into a bunch of packages
<LaserJock> arggg, to many nested iterations
<LaserJock> I'm good at iterating over many many things :-0
<bddebian> Fujitsu: That did it. Testing build now :-)
<Quinn_Storm> in what, LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> a script I'm trying to write
<Quinn_Storm> ah
<LaserJock> some days I wish I was a real programmer :/
<Quinn_Storm> for each in hell...
<welshbyte> LaserJock: what, like the ones at microsoft? ;)
<LaserJock> no, like the ones here
<welshbyte> good choice
<LaserJock> right now I'm at if ... for ... for ... if
<Fujitsu> Thanks bddebian.
<LaserJock> I need to get smarter here
<imbrandon> TheMuso: anyone grabed your xawtv yet ?
<LaserJock> I need to test if $USER is in a particular group in /etc/group
<Fujitsu> crimsun, what aspect of that page am I meant to look at?
* Quinn_Storm needs to remember that in configure scripts, quoted variables do not get expanded.  (thus, she released compiz-core packages that said $VERSION when asked their version)
<Fujitsu> Hrm.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> I left the PO difference when I remerged.
<bddebian> I noticed that :-)
<Quinn_Storm> small bugs always try to creep in
<Fujitsu> Erm, if you haven't gone too far, could you remove them, or shall I upload another diff?
<bddebian> It's pbuilding now so it's up to you
<Fujitsu> I should have probably checked that first when I remerged :(...
<welshbyte> and large bugs just beat the door down while you're asleep
<bddebian> hah
* Quinn_Storm needs to fix the compiz package lintian warnings too...
<Quinn_Storm> this little warning...safe to ignore?  doesn't cause problems in the 'real world', but I hate seeing warnings... - W: compiz: package-relation-with-self depends: compiz
<bddebian> Fujitsu: What did you want me to remove?
<crimsun> bddebian: I've already uploaded it.
<crimsun> it pbuilds/installs/upgrades/removes fine
<welshbyte> Quinn_Storm: your package depends on itself?
<crimsun> if you need to iron out the .po stuff, go ahead
* bddebian pokes crimsun
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Now, fix xchm ;-)
<Quinn_Storm> welshbyte: 'compiz' depends on 'compiz-core'...both come from the same source package
<Quinn_Storm> oh, LOL
<Quinn_Storm> wow, I didn't realize it
<welshbyte> :)
<Quinn_Storm> compiz, incorrectly, depends on compiz, not compiz-core
<welshbyte> good ol' lintian
<bddebian> welshbyte: openvrml still building?
<Quinn_Storm> wait...someone actually uses vrml?
<welshbyte> bddebian: yeah... i'm expecting it to finish sometime before my birthday
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Quinn_Storm: None of us use this stuff, we just build it ;-P
<crimsun> TheMuso: to avoid huge honkin' diffs, you _can_ generate them against the "latest version in Sid"
<Quinn_Storm> lol
<Fujitsu> SHall do, bddebian.
<Quinn_Storm> and they will come
<Fujitsu> Thanks crimsun, bddebian.
<Fujitsu> Is there an issue with xchm, bddebian?
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<Fujitsu> Another new version.
<Fujitsu> This is what happens when merges sit around for a while :(
<bddebian> Aye, sorry about that
<Fujitsu> bddebian, new debdiff attached.
<bddebian> crimsun: You gonna do that one too? :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: no.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Are you sure that one can't just be synced?
<crimsun> it can't be synced now, no.
<bddebian> Why?
<crimsun> because I uploaded it a while ago?
<bddebian> xchm?
<crimsun> oh, not xchm.
<Fujitsu> Some people say to keep it because of that, others don't.
<Fujitsu> Erm.
<Fujitsu> What the...
<Fujitsu> Te difference vanished.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: ??  My desktop changes were put in the debian package weren't they?
<Fujitsu> Something went really wrong when I remerged...
<Fujitsu> Looks like they were.
<Fujitsu> Oops.
* Fujitsu kicks self.
<Fujitsu> Yes, it can be synced.
* Fujitsu kicks self a few times.
<bddebian> Fujitsu: Bah, don't sweat it :-)
<bddebian> Fujitsu: You want to just change your bug to a sync request and I'll approve?
<Fujitsu> Why not?
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll change it.
<Fujitsu> Why shouldn't I sweat it? I should have noticed that.
<TheMuso> crimsun: I put a diff between sid and Ubuntu did I not?
<bddebian> Fujitsu: We all miss stuff, believe me :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know why I would get "bad number" when comparing 2 integers in a shell script?
<crimsun> make sure you're actually comparing 2 integers using the correct operator.
<LaserJock> 1156387832 is ok but it doesn't like 1156380530
<LaserJock> oh
<crimsun> TheMuso: ah, I only read the last e-mail
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> gotta but $ in front of those variables ;-)
<Fujitsu> bddebian, I've modified the bug.
<LaserJock> what's the difference between  /etc/group and /etc/group-
* TheMuso wishes launchpad would put it all in one email like it used to.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: The latter is a backup afaik.
<LaserJock> i see
<TheMuso> But don't hold me to that.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Sp4rKy> heya
<Sp4rKy> anyone ?
<gnux123> hello
<Sp4rKy> gnux123, hi, do you know why i've all my files twice in a deb?
<Sp4rKy> i've all the files over /usr/* and over /debian/foo/usr/
<gnux123> For creating packages or installed?
<Sp4rKy> for creating package
<gnux123> I think it's just the debian way of creating packages
<Sp4rKy> no, this a strange issue
<Sp4rKy> i've to go
<Sp4rKy> bye
<gnux123> ok
<gnux123> hello raphink
<gnux123> Got this problem with the REVU
<raphink> hi gnux123
<raphink> gnux123: tell me ;)
<gnux123> I upload my package yesterday
<gnux123> and I can't see it on the site.
<raphink> gnux123: let me see
<raphink> gnux123: what's the name of the package
<gnux123> Its asterisk package
<raphink> ok
<gnux123> I'll be waiting
<raphink> gnux123: are you in the ubuntu-universe-contributors group on LP?
<gnux123> yes
<gnux123> I just join yesterday
<raphink> do you have your GPG key on LP aswell?
<gnux123> I do
<raphink> let me refresh the keyring then
<gnux123> How will I know if my packages is in the Revu?
<welshbyte> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<raphink> gnux123: I'll tell you in no time
<raphink> as soon as your key is in
<raphink> gnux123: let's wait 5 minutes for the cron
<gnux123> ok
<gnux123> thanks
<gnux123> Is it ok for files to be name with user/group ID's
<raphink> how do you mean?
<raphink> ok I think asterisk got in
<raphink> you should see it on REVU now
<gnux123> yes
<gnux123> With this one drwxrwx--- 2  109    109   1592 2006-08-25 14:25 asterisk?
<raphink> gnux123: well if your package is well done, it should fix the mod when installing anyway
<raphink> ;)
<gnux123> I got this when purging asterisk
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'm sorry I don't hav emuch time right now
<raphink> I have to get ready for work
<gnux123> ok thanks anyway
<raphink> np
<rob> imbrandon: ping
<imbrandon> pong
<imbrandon> rob ^^
<rob> your the maintainer of kvirc?
<imbrandon> no but i was the last to touch it the last few times ;)
<imbrandon> so i guess psudoly
<imbrandon> if thats a word heh
<imbrandon> got an issue ?
<crimsun> (no maintainers per se)
<rob> oh, do you know whats up with the Freenode entry not pointing to freenode.net apparently?
<imbrandon> nope i use konversation personaly but i'd be more than happy to look ( most likely its pointing to irc.debian.org like konvo way )
<imbrandon> s/way/was
<imbrandon> i'll grab it right now and look though
<rob> nalioth pointed it out earlier
<rob> he's going to log a bug I think, but I thought I'd ask
<imbrandon> okies, tell him to go ahead and log the bug and i'll close it when i upload the fix
<rob> ok, great :)
<rob> thanks for that imbrandon
<imbrandon> np ;)
<rob> he's asleep now, I'll remind him later :)
<imbrandon> okies
* imbrandon grabs some mt dew
<Fujitsu> Oh no.. Not this again :P
<rob> oh?
<imbrandon> rob: oh real fast , is chat.freenode or irc.freenode the prefered connection ? or does it matter ?
<rob> doesn't matter
<imbrandon> k
<Arbiter> hi Gloubiboulga, slomo and Hobbsee  :)
<Hobbsee> hey Arbiter
* Arbiter is working on kssh :D
<Hobbsee> nice :)
* Hobbsee would be rather interested in that
<slomo> hi Arbiter :)
<Arbiter> while i'm waiting for review of my other packages... :D
<Hobbsee> heh
<Arbiter> yesterday Gloubiboulga helped on that ;)
* Hobbsee cant review, eat dinner, talk on irc, and call someone at the same time!
<Arbiter> hehehehe :D
* Hobbsee is going to go and be a pyro
<gnux123> Anyone interested to review my packages at revu?
<gnux123> Hi Arbiter
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: should be very afraid
<Arbiter> hi cbx33 :)
<Arbiter> hi gnux123
<cbx33> hi Arbiter
<gnux123> :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello Arbiter, hello everyone
<Arbiter> :)
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<Arbiter> good morning Toadstool
<gnux123> Good Morning
<Toadstool> hi Arbiter, gnux123
<gnux123> Is it bad to postrm "purge" configuration files for a package?
<crimsun> bad? no. That's one of its purposes.
<gnux123> Then why is this happening to some packages?
<crimsun> eh?
<Toadstool> uh? what do you mean?
<Toadstool> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi Toadstool
<crimsun> if you use purge, then it should remove conffiles
<gnux123> Im packaging asterisk right now and looking at its postrm configurations are not remove.
<Toadstool> gnux123: usually there's a case $1 in\n  purge) etc. to determine whether the user asked for a purge or not
<gnux123> like this one http://pastebin.com/775509
<Toadstool> yep
<Toadstool> hum dunno if purging a package should remove log files though
<Toadstool> crimsun: ^ ?
<gnux123> How bout that crimsun?
<crimsun> it's legal to remove the log directory if it's empty, yes, but never if it's non-empty
<gnux123> I learn again:). Thanks for the info
<crimsun> wow, rm -fR?
<crimsun> that's sick
<Toadstool> wow...
<gnux123> How do you package upstream packages?
<StevenK> crimsun: It's a bit brutal, but I don't think if Policy expressively forbids it.
<crimsun> StevenK: right, I was attempting to locate a specific exception but couldn't find one
<StevenK> I only have a passing familiarity with Policy, so I could be wrong.
<Toadstool> "Log files should be removed when the package is purged" policy 10.8
<gnux123> Debian Policy
<StevenK> Ah ha!
<imbrandon_> ok bash guys , i wanna grep a dir for a string in a file , my limited bash skills came up with "cat -R *|grep blah" but that wont show me the file its in
<Toadstool> :)
* StevenK tries to update his internal Policy manual.
<Toadstool> imbrandon_: "grep -r blah *" works just fine
<imbrandon_> k thanks
<gnux123> Toadstool:Right...:)
<imbrandon_> like i said limited bash useage ;)
<imbrandon_> heh
<Toadstool> np ;)
<Hobbsee> cool!
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> heya Toadstool!
<imbrandon_> btw moins Toadstool StevenK and crimsun ;)
<crimsun> Toadstool: ah, cool
<crimsun> well, at least it's Policy even if I disagree with it
* StevenK waves
<crimsun> 'lo (again) imbrandon_
<Toadstool> 'lo imbrandon_
<crimsun> flight to catch in a few hours, see y'all
<Hobbsee> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<Toadstool> hi dholbach
<gnux123> hello dholbach
<gnux123> How hard is to maintained packages? opinion, experience...
<Toadstool> it depends on the package ;)
<gnux123> Multiple bin? Libs?
<Arbiter> I need reviews for the following packages: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2955 (ktagebuch) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2953 (knowit) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2952 (kcmpureftpd). Thanks.
<welshbyte> wow... openvrml has finally finished building
<welshbyte> it took 18 hours
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Fujitsu> It is an impressive beast...
<welshbyte> that's one word for it :)
<grexk> woooo
<grexk> when did you start it?
<welshbyte> 18 hours ago ;)
<grexk> let me count
<welshbyte> it was munching around 1.5GB of memory at some points
<grexk> Its 5.12Pm from 23:00AM?
<grexk> waaa
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Sp4rKy> hi
<bddebian> Heya Sp4rKy.  Any luck yet? :-)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, yep
<bddebian> Sweet.  Was it the .install file?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> thanks Gloubiboulga :D
<bddebian> Awesome
<Sp4rKy> just a small question
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Sp4rKy> does exist any option for log output in a file during pbuilder ?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Sorry, you've used up your quota.. ;-P
<bddebian>  > foo.log 2>&1 ?
<Gloubiboulga> hehe
<Toadstool> Sp4rKy: I use pbuilder [options]  | tee buildlog
<Toadstool> hi all
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Sp4rKy> Toadstool, bddebian k thx
<Toadstool> hey bddebian! what's up?
<bddebian> Toadstool: Same old grunt work, thanks.  You?
<Toadstool> bddebian: Preparing my moving to San Diego
<Toadstool> one week left :)
<bddebian> Oh nice, San Diego is one of my favorite areas in California
<ryanakca> Can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2939  please?
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, i'd tried 2>&1 > foo.log :/
<bddebian> ryanakca: I did :-)
<Toadstool> ryanakca: give me a few seconds and I'll have a look at it
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: You did "sudo pbuilder build foo.dsc > foo.log 2>&1" ?
<ryanakca> bddebian: two people need to review & advocate before it gets into repos... right?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Aye, just wasn't sure if you saw that :)
<geser> Sp4rKy: add --pkgname-logfile to build
<geser> you will get a logfile in the results dir
<ryanakca> Toadstool: thanks
<ryanakca> bddebian: lol
<Sp4rKy> geser, thx
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, i did "sudo pbuilder build foo.dsc 2>&1 > foo.log" , didn't work
<Toadstool> ryanakca: added a few comments on eqonomize
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: Aye, it wouldn't
<trappist> if there's a patch in debian/patches that needs fixing, do I just fix it and make a debdiff, or what?
<bddebian> trappist: It depends on the change.  If it's trivial, sometimes you can just get away with modifying the patch itself
<trappist> bddebian: yeah it's just a typo
<trappist> bddebian: what do I send to launchpad?  a debdiff that patches the patch?
<bddebian> trappist: Personnally, I would just update the patch file then
<trappist> right... but then what do I send to launchpad?  I don't have upload rights on anything
<LaserJock> trappist: if it's like a one liner or something I'd just upload a patch to the patch
<trappist> LaserJock: that's what I'm looking for, thanks
<LaserJock> but if it needs explaining you should create a changelog and upload a debdiff, IMO
<bddebian> trappist: Oh, sorry
<trappist> bddebian: :)
<welshbyte> ello all
<bddebian> welshbyte!!!!!!
<welshbyte> bddebian!!
<bddebian> welshbyte: Are you an Ubuntu member yet?
<welshbyte> bddebian: no.. should i be? :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Of course :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: You are my new hero ;-P
<welshbyte> hehe
<welshbyte> because i slayed the evil openvrml? :P
<bddebian> And gnu-smalltalk, and ipac-ng :-)
<welshbyte> don't forget prismstumbler ;)
<welshbyte> so how does one become a ubuntu member?
<Sp4rKy> how could i add a package from a repository (local) ?
<welshbyte> Sp4rKy: if you have the .deb file then you can use sudo dpkg -i foo.deb to install it, otherwise you'd need to add the repository to your /etc/apt/sources.list
<welshbyte> though i might have misread your meaning of the word "add"
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> i want add a package to a repository which will be usuable for other users
<welshbyte> ah
<welshbyte> in that case... i dunno :)
<Sp4rKy> :)
<geser> create a Packages file with apt-ftparchive
<Sp4rKy> geser, i think there is alr"eady a Packages file
<geser> and add an entry to source.list pointing to your repository
<Sp4rKy> geser no
<Sp4rKy> the repository already exists
<Sp4rKy> i just want add a soft TO this repository
<geser> then you need to recreate the Packages file
<Sp4rKy> k
<Sp4rKy> juste do it
<Sp4rKy> ?
<geser> how was this repository created?
<LaserJock> I used dput and mini-dinstall, I think when I did it
<Sp4rKy> i don't know, this is the problem :/
<Sp4rKy> geser, personnally i use reprepro
* welshbyte goes to let his sister use this PC for a bit
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: you probably should find what repo tool is used
<Sp4rKy> :p
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock, hmmm, how can i do ?
<LaserJock> Sp4rKy: ask the person running the repo
<geser> is it simple one directory or does it have a pool/ directory?
<LaserJock> if you are uploading to their repo I assume you are communicating to them ;-)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock, he 's in holiday :/
<Sp4rKy> geser, have a pool direcotry
<tritium> bddebian: what came of your request to sync mythtv from debian-multimedia.org?
<Sp4rKy> http://e17.tuxfamily.org/
<bddebian> tritium: Still sitting on LP :-(
<tritium> bddebian: okay, thanks...
<LaserJock> tritium!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
* Arbiter is back
<bddebian> welshbyte: You add your name to the list :-)
<tritium> Hi LaserJock :)
<bddebian> wb Arbiter :-)
<Sp4rKy> LaserJock, geser seems use apt-ftparchive for creating repository
<Sp4rKy> apt-ftparchive generate -q=0 scripts/apt-ftparchive.conf
<Sp4rKy> apt-ftparchive -c scripts/apt-release.conf release dists/$SUITE/ >dists/$SUITE/Release
<Arbiter> where's a list of unofficial repos for ubuntu?
<Arbiter> found
<Arbiter> :)
<Sp4rKy> so, how can i add a deb ?
<tritium> bddebian: I hate to say it, but I am putting either etch or knoppmyth on my htpc
<bddebian> ACK, traitor! :-)
<tritium> bddebian: sorry ;)
<bddebian> tritium: Just add the debian-multimedia repo and install mythtv from there! :)
<tritium> bddebian: yeah, I was just trying that now actually
<bddebian> tritium: Should work, I asked for a straight sync of it
<tritium> bddebian: sync would be from source.  Which binary repo would you use?
<bddebian> tritium: Oh, hang on
<bddebian> tritium: http://mirror.home-dn.net/debian-multimedia
<tritium> bddebian: thanks.  Is that a mirror of his unstable repo?
<bddebian> Aye
<tritium> bddebian: ok, thanks.  Was mostly asking about stable/testing/unstable
<bddebian>  unstable, sorry
<tritium> no problem, thanks again :)
<AnAnt> isn't there a way to resume a dput upload instead of restarting it ?
<AnAnt> I have a problem packaging a library (fsplib), it installs in debian/tmp/usr/{lib,include}. so I got fsplib0.install file which contains: usr/lib/* , and fsplib-dev.install file
<AnAnt> which contains: usr/include/*
<AnAnt> yet, the resulting packages don't have anything in the lib & include dirs !
<AnAnt> anyone knows what may cause that ?
<tritium> bddebian: eww, dependency mess
<AnAnt> bddebian: so what do you say about crimsun's comment that I sent you ?
<bddebian> tritium: I wondered about that :-(
<bddebian> AnAnt: I'm sorry, please refresh my memory
<AnAnt> AnAnt: about elinks
<AnAnt> errr
<AnAnt> bddebian: about elinks
<AnAnt> I must be crazy talking to myself
<ryanakca> Lintian complains about rpath being defined in /usr/bin/eqonomize. You should fix this.                how do I fix it?
<ryanakca> I have no clue what "rpath" is, even
<AnAnt> bddebian: the 3 issues in the elinks package, that I beleive that those issues exist in the package which is already in the edgy repos
<AnAnt> bddebian: I sent a memo about it about 24 hours ago
<bddebian> AnAnt: As I said before, I would just make a note on the REVU page stating that those errors exist in the current package, if you aren't going to fix them.
<AnAnt> ok, than manpage thing, you know how to fix it ?
<AnAnt> bddebian: and that pkg-not-in-package-test ?
<AnAnt> that second issue I know that it occurs in packages that have several build targets
<AnAnt> but dunno what to do about it
<bddebian> AnAnt: To be honest, no, I am not sure how to fix either one, sorry
<ryanakca> Toadstool: ping   ... couple questions
<Toadstool> yep?
<Toadstool> ryanakca: ?
<ryanakca> Toadstool: ok... rpath?  lost me there... lintian doesn't output anything about it... and to be honest... have no clue what it is, let alone fix it...
<ryanakca> Toadstool: all I see about rPath on google is that it's a linux distro
<Toadstool> ryanakca: "W: eqonomize: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/bin/eqonomize /usr/lib:/lib"
<Toadstool> it's bad  :)
<ryanakca> hmmm...
<ryanakca> so is that packaging error somewhere? or is it something in source code?
<Toadstool> source code
<Toadstool> wait, trying to find some doc for you
<ryanakca> *gulps* now I'm mortified
<ryanakca> I'm just starting to learn C... let alone cpp
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<Toadstool> don't worry, it's just a tiny fix
<cypher1> Toadstool, what is it about ?
<ryanakca> Toadstool: let me guess, I'll have to use a patch system for the fix?
<Toadstool> cypher1: eqonomize defines a rpath in my amd64 pbuilder at least
<Toadstool> ryanakca: you can have a look at lesstif2 if you want to have an example
<Toadstool> ryanakca: apt-get source lesstif2 and examine debian/fixrpath and debian/rules
<ryanakca> kk
<Toadstool> and if you have further questions, ping me ;)
<ryanakca> ping :)
<Toadstool> lol
<ryanakca> Copyright... what else is there... I looked threw COPYING... theres nothing other than the GPL...
<Toadstool> ryanakca: grep -rin copyright * ^^
<Toadstool> there are a few copyright notices in the source files you have to mention in your debian/copyright
<ryanakca> Toadstool: so what do I add... something like:   admin/ltmain.sh Copyright (C) 2003  Free Software Foundation, Inc.           etcetcetc?
<Toadstool> no, not those :p
<Toadstool> "Copyright (c) 2004 Bram Schoenmakers <bramschoenmakers@kde.nl>" in src/kdatepickerpopup.h for example
<ryanakca> oh, so the src/* ones?
<Toadstool> yeah
<ryanakca> and what about the ones in the main source dir, like:
<ryanakca> acinclude.m4   Copyright (C) 1997 Janos Farkas (chexum@shadow.banki.hu)
<ryanakca> or is that a "safe to ignore" case?
<Toadstool> you can skip those related to file automatically generated by the autotools
<Toadstool> *files
<ryanakca> kk, thanks :)
<ryanakca> I'll hunt you down later... if ever I figure out that rpath thingy
<Toadstool> ok
<bddebian> welshbyte: Still around?
* welshbyte kicks his sister off the PC
<welshbyte> aye
<bddebian> heh
<welshbyte> (visiting the parents this weekend)
<bddebian> welshbyte: You running Edgy?
<bddebian> Oh
<welshbyte> sadly not
<bddebian> welshbyte: You are fired ;-P
<welshbyte> bddebian: bah, what was the task going to be?
<bddebian> I need someone to test a desktop file for flight-of-the-amazon-queeen :)
<welshbyte> sounds like a fun package
<bddebian> Any Edgy users about?
<tseng> whats to test in a desktop file?
<ryanakca> Toadstool: ok, ./debian/fixrpath is supposed to be executed right after ./configure is run.... but, in cdbs, how would I get it to run after config, but before the install?
<ryanakca> bddebian: yep
<ryanakca> bddebian: what tseng said
<bddebian> tseng: I don't have any working Edgy boxes (at least for Gnome)
<bddebian> tseng: Just want to make sure it gets installed and kicks off properly.  It's a scummvm thing so I'm not sure the app will start properly
<ryanakca> bddebian: send me the package and I'll test it for you... or the source :)
<bddebian> ryanakca: Do you have a decent connection?
<ryanakca> I can go upto 800kb/s
<bddebian> Nice, OK
<ryanakca> but most of the time, around 300kb/s
<ryanakca> depends on the mood of my ISP :)
<bddebian> ryanakca: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/amazon_queen/
<ryanakca> ewww... 44kb/s
<Sp4rKy> what's the architecture param for 64 bit computer ?
<ryanakca> bddebian: that for a 386/686, right?
<Sp4rKy> i64 ?
<ryanakca> no clue... I stay away from 64... look at kernels... it'll tell you what all the arch are
<geser> ia64 is itanium and x86_64 is amd64/em64t
<Sp4rKy> geser, k
<bddebian> ryanakca: Yep
<CarlFK> anyone have some advice on how I should install PythonMagic on dapper?  (is there a .deb, ?)
<ryanakca> bddebian: kk, phew... it would suck if I was downloading a 64 deb... 50%... 30kb/s...
<bddebian> CarlFK: apt-get install python2.4-magic?
<CarlFK> I don't think that is the same magic
<ryanakca> bddebian: is it your bad connection, mine or one of our ISPs being a pain?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Probably my upload speed.  It's governed :-(
<ryanakca> governed?
<bddebian> limited
<ryanakca> oh... wonder why... :(
<bddebian> I get like 10Mb down and only like 384k up
<bddebian> So I don't run porn sites out of my house :-)
<ryanakca> I'm supposed to get 10mb down, but I never do...
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> hmmm... what do they mean by "editing patches"? creating them? I can't see any point in editing one...
<bddebian> ryanakca: I don't know the context but probably directly editing an existing patch file instead of creating a new one
<CarlFK> how can I find what depends on imagemagick?
<bddebian> CarlFK: apt-cache rdepends imagemagick
<CarlFK> tx
<bddebian> Of course that doesn't do build-depends
<bddebian> ryanakca: That sucker finish yet?  I have to download beneath-a-steel-sky yet and that thing is bigger than amazon queen :-(
<CarlFK> it is enough to convince me there is no PythonMagick package
<ryanakca> bddebian: 96%
<ryanakca> oh god... I'd put a warning in debian/control... "WARNING: DO NOT DOWNLOAD UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOOD CONNECTION!"
<ryanakca> done
<Toadstool> ryanakca: http://revu.tauware.de/~jcorbier/dolphin.diff <-- a patch I made to help someone else
<bddebian> CarlFK: What is this PythonMagick that you are trying to use?
<CarlFK> http://www.python.net/crew/zack/pymagick/
<ryanakca> Toadstool: ty, for? cdbs?
<Toadstool> cdbs, fixrpath
<ryanakca> bddebian:   Package scummvm is not installed.
<bddebian> ryanakca: It's not a depends?
<ryanakca> Toadstool: nice, thanks... from what I understand of the patch... add the "configure" section, except change it to "configure/eqonomize::"?
<Toadstool> ryanakca: yep, that's it
* imbrandon yanws
<ryanakca> bddebian: http://pastebin.ca/149362
<bddebian> ryanakca: Aye, please do an apt-get -f install
<ryanakca> imbrandon: konversation is awesome... I'd add a dialog for history if I knew how though...
<imbrandon> ;)
<ryanakca> much better than that dapper one anywais... and now they have the auto-replace so that I can re-kidnap .se.veas.'s smile
<imbrandon> lol
<ryanakca> I remember bugging them for that a while back :-)
* welshbyte goes to drink guinness
<ryanakca> bddebian: works... this looks kindof interesting :)
<CarlFK> swell - Get the  PythonMagick distribution ... ftp://ftp.lems.brown.edu/pub/turtles/magick/pymagick-0.1a7.tar.gz  404
<ryanakca> bddebian: no icon though
<bddebian> ryanakca: Aye, I know :-(
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know how I can find extentions for FF 2?
<LaserJock> or are there just none yet
<geser> some extensions support already FF2 but not all
<LaserJock> is there an easy way to find which ones do and don't? it seem sort of trial-and-error
<CarlFK> found it: http://www.imagemagick.org/download/python/PythonMagick-0.6.tar.gz
<geser> addons.mozilla.org lists the supported versions on the seperate page for each extension
<geser> sometimes one can find an development version supporting FF2 on the homepage of the extension
<bddebian> Later gang
<ryanakca> LaserJock: Some of them work, some of them don't, it's mainly trial and error... same with the themes...
<[Utah] tristanbob> has anyone used alien to convert RPMs to Debs?
<LaserJock> I have in the past
<[Utah] tristanbob> how successful was it?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I found some anyway :-)
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: without tweaking
<LaserJock> [Utah] tristanbob: pretty well
<ryanakca> LaserJock: good... I just wish iFox was available for 2.0
<[Utah] tristanbob> what type of RPM works best, RHEL, FC4, FC5, etc?
<[Utah] tristanbob> I am trying to create a Debian package for "Net::SSH::Perl" based on an RPM
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure if it matters much
<LaserJock> I remember making OO.o .debs from RPMs and I did a packaging project based on aliened RPMs
<LaserJock> the content itself isn't too bad
<LaserJock> you just need to look at the deps (the ones I've seen are all versioned when they don't have to be)
<[Utah] tristanbob> Laserjock - How do I check the dependancies on the deb that was created?
<LaserJock> extract the control info
<LaserJock> dpkg -e I think
<[Utah] tristanbob> yes, that did it - created a folder called DEBIAN
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> in DEBIAN is control
<ryanakca> LaserJock: so... no sudo with pbuilder?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: hmm?
<ryanakca> hmm... then it wasn't you...
<ryanakca> I was having a conversation with someone a couple of days ago about weither or not you should use sudo with pbuilder
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: yes, there is a short control file and a MD5SUMS file
<[Utah] tristanbob> I assume it placed the source files where they are listed in the md5sums file?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: thanks for your help - I just cannot wrap my brain around debian packaging
<LaserJock> what do you want to know
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> do you want to create a debian source package from the RPM?
<LaserJock> is a source tarball available?
<[Utah] tristanbob> I have read several packaging guides...
<[Utah] tristanbob> well the perl module is in CPAN
<[Utah] tristanbob> net::ssh::perl
<[Utah] tristanbob> so, yes
<LaserJock> then it would probably be better to start from there rather then an rpm
<LaserJock> although the control file you extracted could help when trying to figure out dependecies
<geser> if you want to see depends and other info of a deb-file: dpkg-deb -I filename.deb
<[Utah] tristanbob> the control file is VERY short
<[Utah] tristanbob> geser: thanks, I will use that
<geser> if you need the contents of a deb-file use -c
<[Utah] tristanbob> geser: also useful - thanks
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: as you said, I think the best thing would be to build the package from scratch
<[Utah] tristanbob> since it is a perl module, I could look at the deb packages for similar modules
<[Utah] tristanbob> using the commands that geser mentioned
<ryanakca> LaserJock: can I update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto so that it doesn't include the "sudo" part? you can easily run pbuilder without sudo
<LaserJock> ryanakca: hmm, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> ryanakca: perhaps email the ubuntu-motu list and see what people think
<LaserJock> I would think there was a reason, but maybe not :-)
<ryanakca> kk
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: would you recommend I follow the debhelper method described in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide?
<LaserJock> [Utah] tristanbob: yeah
<LaserJock> :-)
<ryanakca> why do I get a bunch of these errors while running pbuilder?
<ryanakca> dpkg-architecture: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)
<LaserJock> cause
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I can't remember the specific reason, but it is a known thing
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> LaserJock: could you please review eqonomize for me? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2939
<ryanakca> Toadstool: ping
<LaserJock> ryanakca: is that a new package or a update?
<LaserJock> ryanakca: and do you really need a dep on patchutils?
<ryanakca> erm... I had removed that I thought...
<ryanakca> LaserJock: new package
<ryanakca> darn'it... it never was removed... I'll fix it... sorry 'bout that
<LaserJock> the url you gave was for an older upload ;-)
<LaserJock> nah, you fixed it
<ryanakca> lol, phew
<ryanakca> I was looking at my control wondering where the bleep it was
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-26
<LaserJock> ryanakca: looks good, I'm going to build in pbuilder, etc.
<lfittl> LaserJock: do you have some time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931 after you are finished with this one? :)
<LaserJock> oh jeeze
<lfittl> heh
<LaserJock> I'll try guys
<LaserJock> but I'm pretty slow at reviewing
<ryanakca> LaserJock: kk, ty
<lfittl> take your time, I just want to get this uploaded before the next TB, want to apply for universe upload rights / MOTU, and could need another maintained package ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lfittl> hi bddebian (bah, I thought I was in -motu, but it was -bugs ;))
<ryanakca> lol
<lfittl> bddebian: why do you always have to greet in all channels? :D
<bddebian> It's my job :-)
<lfittl> hehe
<ryanakca> lol
<LaserJock> it's the only thing he is good at ;-)
<bddebian> Oh man, you beat me to it.. :'-(
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I know you too well
<lfittl> bddebian: mind giving a +1 on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931, as it really seems to be correct, and linda is just buggy
<lfittl> bddebian: you are also good for reviewing ;)
<crimsun> please don't ship the libtool archive.
<crimsun> ibgrapple-0.9/debian/libgrapple-dev.install
<bddebian> lfittl: Sure.  I gotta check out eqonomize for ryanakca quick
<lfittl> crimsun: should I create a pkgconfig file instead?
<lfittl> bddebian: sure
<crimsun> that would work, sure.
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I don't get this link: ./usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/eqonomize/common -> ../common
<ryanakca> ermmm.... where's that?
<ryanakca> because I don't get it either
<LaserJock> in the .deb
<ryanakca> how did you display it?
* ryanakca wants to get a look at the devil :)
<LaserJock> dpkg -c eqonomize_0.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<ryanakca> grep -rin /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/eqonomize/common *          in the source dir doesn't should anything
<ryanakca> s/should/show
<ryanakca> hmmm... weird... any clue as to fixing it?
<lfittl> crimsun: I just noticed again, only -lgrapple is needed, is a pkg-config still a good thing to have in this case?
<lfittl> s/pkg-config/.pc\ file/
<crimsun> does it have really odd header paths or options?
<ryanakca> LaserJock: found the part of the pbuilder output that does that... just can't figure out why or from where that came from
<lfittl> crimsun: no, nothing
<crimsun> lfittl: I would say then that it's not absolutely necessary but a very nice thing to include.
<lfittl> crimsun: k, I saw that some .pc files also add -L, even if the lib is in /usr/lib, is there any reason to do this?
<crimsun> I don't see any, no
<crimsun> lfittl: apologies, your package is fine.
<crimsun> lfittl: I'm a bit overzealous in pruning .las
<crimsun> (just reread Junichi's guide to double-check)
<lfittl> crimsun: :)
<lfittl> whats the url for his guide?
<crimsun> lfittl: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<lfittl> ah, didn't know there was stuff about .la in there
<crimsun> I only checked to see if there was a note mandating their removal, since I know kde -dev packages ship them. Only X.Org packages so far don't.
<lfittl> crimsun: will create a patch and send it upstream, and stick with the .la for this version
<bddebian> ryanakca: There are some ln going on in configure
<crimsun> lfittl: sounds great, I'll +1 it
<lfittl> crimsun: thanks for reviewing :)
<lfittl> crimsun: do you have time to come to the next TB meeting, could need as many supporters as possible
<crimsun> I will attempt to
<lfittl> thanks
<crimsun> TB meetings always seem to coincide with a sponsor or faculty meeting
<ryanakca> bddebian: mind pointing me to the line?
<ryanakca> nevermind, I'll grep it :)
<bddebian> Hmm, what would be the best way to find out how/where keyboard bindings are being done in crack-attack?  Run it in gdb?
<lfittl> bddebian: what exactly are you trying to debug?
<bddebian> lfittl: Bug #30747
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30747 in crack-attack "Menu screen has double entries for ALT-Q accelerator" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30747
<ryanakca> LaserJock: hmmm... and no chance of just leaving it in?
<lfittl> bddebian: how about searching for it in the sourcecode?
<bddebian> lfittl: I am but how do I know what to search for?
<lfittl> bddebian: gdb won't help, at least I can't imagine how
<bddebian> lfittl: I was thinking gdb just to see what point in the code I'm in
<lfittl> hmm
* lfittl takes a look at the sourcecode
<LaserJock> ryanakca: well, check and see if it messes anything up
<lfittl> bddebian: hmm, do you know gtk well enough for knowing which function creates the binding?
<lfittl> as in, which gtk.. function is used for that
<bddebian> lfittl: I don't know anything, haven't you figured that out yet? :-)
<lfittl> bddebian: I have, I just don't want to realize it ;-)
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: I think I may have found a shortcut to creating packages for Perl modules
<LaserJock> yeah
<[Utah] tristanbob> dh-make-perl --build --cpan Net::SSH:Perl
<lfittl> bddebian: found it :)
<lfittl> crack-attack-fe-ng-00.glade, line 602
<bddebian> I wondered if glad wasn't doing it
<bddebian> Err glade even
* lfittl builds and tries
<[Utah] tristanbob> "dh-make-perl will create the files required to build a debian source package out of a perl package. This works for most simple packages and is also useful for getting started with packaging perl modules. Given a perl package name, it can also automatically download it from CPAN."
<[Utah] tristanbob> LaserJock: I will test this method of creating the package.  Then I can modify it to meet the requirements to add to the debian and Ubuntu repos
<lfittl> bddebian: while I try my fix, could you give your +1 on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2931 ? =)
<lfittl> hmm fix doesnt work :/
<lfittl> crimsun: could you give your advocate also on REVU?
<lfittl> bddebian: that's weird, the glade file is the only place where the accelerator is defined, but changing it doesn't do anything
<bddebian> lfittl: Have you done a new upload?
<lfittl> bddebian: you mean on REVU? no, but the problem linda points out doesn't exist, so the package should be fine
<bddebian> lfittl: Ah, OK
<lfittl> bddebian: sry, you were right, the bug was in the source, not in the glade file, src/gtk-gui/interface.cxx line 322
<bddebian> gdkkeysyms stuff?
<lfittl> no, lblQuality = gtk_label_new_with_mnemonic ("Q_uality:");, it's important where the _ is placed
<bddebian> Ah, nice
<crimsun> yes, that should probably be _Quality
<crimsun> err
<lfittl> no, that was the old value ;)
<crimsun> _("Quality:")
<bddebian> crimsun: No, there is already a Q for quit
<crimsun> oh, now translations, nevermind
<lfittl> crimsun: its about gtk accelerators, not gettext ;)
<crimsun> s/now/not/
<bddebian> Nah, menu options :-)
<lfittl> :)
<lfittl> crimsun: as said before, could you advocate libgrapple on REVU, and also upload if possible?
<bddebian> lfittl: You gonna upload that fix?
<lfittl> bddebian: how about me attaching a debdiff to the bug, and the changelog mentions "Fixed keybindings, together with Barry deFreese", and you upload it? :)
<bddebian> lfittl: Sure but you don't need to mention me, I didn't do anything
<lfittl> bddebian: I am sure you invested some time into trying to fix it, so why not mention it somehow ;)
<lfittl> bddebian: but thats your decision, it isn't imporant to me who it is attributed to, just thought you did the initial work, so it wouldn't be fair to not mention you
<lfittl> s/imporant/important/
<crimsun> advocated. Not at a place where I can upload.
<lfittl> thanks :)
<lfittl> bddebian: are you at a place where you can upload?
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> Gotta get my kids dressed then I'll hit libgrapple and crack attack
<lfittl> bddebian: fix is at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/crack-attack/+bug/30747, tell me when you are done with both uploads
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30747 in crack-attack "Menu screen has double entries for ALT-Q accelerator" [Medium,In progress] 
<Shadowpillar> is it too late to suggest a package for the next release of ubuntu?
<Shadowpillar> or does universe still accept packages for dapper?
<Shadowpillar> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stud.fit.vutbr.cz%2F~xhorak28%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3DWizardPen_Driver&ei=M5rvRPvxEJe6YPrhkLQD&sig2=vazSPntxAYT7DqOGpk6eng
<Shadowpillar> er
<Shadowpillar> damnit
<Shadowpillar> http://www.stud.fit.vutbr.cz/~xhorak28/index.php?page=WizardPen_Driver
<ryanakca> crimsun: LaserJock pointed out a "lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2006-08-25 17:34 ./usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/eqonomize/common -> ../common" from  dpkg -c ~/pbuilder/edgy/result/eqonomize_0.3*deb ... I can't figure out where it comes from, or even why it exists, but I do know that it doesn't hinder help:/eqonomize in any way.. can motu still let it into universe, or do I need to hunt it down?
<Shadowpillar> it's an X11 driver for a tablet
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: does it build ok?
<Shadowpillar> yeah
<Shadowpillar> works good too
<Shadowpillar> I wish I knew how to make deb packages correctly
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: did you compile it or build it?
<Shadowpillar> compile
<gnomefreak> ah
<Shadowpillar> I can vouch for it working well though
<Shadowpillar> used it on my breezy system
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: you compiled it on edgy yet?
<Shadowpillar> I'm on dapper atm
<Shadowpillar> I was asking if it's still possible to suggest a package to be included/built for edgy
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: afaik it is until sept. 5th ish
<lfittl> bddebian: should get some sleep (again), thanks for all your work, if you could do the uploads in the next hours it would be great :)
<Shadowpillar> where can I request?
<lfittl> gn8 everybody
<gnomefreak> but doesnt mean it will be added. one of the guys or you will have to package it for edgy to make sure it all works.
<gnomefreak> nite lfittl
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: what do you think better to ask someone or file a request on LP for a package request
* gnomefreak scared to build it after reading that page
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: well, it's allready all nice and pretty, all I need to do is get rid of that link or leave it in and a wonderfull motu can upload it :)
<ryanakca> its a link that points to it's self
<gnomefreak> oh
<Shadowpillar> gnomefreak: can stuff still be added to dapper universe?
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: no
<ryanakca> actually no, it isn't
<gnomefreak> backports only and very very careful on what they let through
<ryanakca> I figured it out... it makes sense
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: once stable you try not to add new things
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: you a motu?
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: nope ;)
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: been through these questions
<bddebian> ryanakca: Figure out your problem?
<ryanakca> bddebian: yes, it's a normal link, which can basicly be translated to /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/eqonomize/common -> /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common
<gnomefreak> Shadowpillar: i would either ask again if noone can answer you tonight or file a bug on it as a request.
* gnomefreak heading to bed monk is on :)
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: we have? hmm... memory loss :)
<Shadowpillar> where can I file a bug?
<gnomefreak> :) it happens
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: if you learn packaging, go for cdbs... and don't listen to people who call it evil...
* gnomefreak wants to learn it
<ryanakca> Shadowpillar: launchpad... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: well... the ubuntu packaging guide is pretty good... and cdbs is the simplest one... and easiest to use.... takes about an afternoon to read it all and follow the examples, and then 2-3 packages practice.. and then eons to perfect...
* ryanakca wishes he was good at packaging...
<bddebian> ryanakca: Don't we all :-)
<ryanakca> lol, yep :)
<gnomefreak> i will get to it this weekend ty
<gnomefreak> :)
<ryanakca> hmm... k/ubuntu isn't in the FLOSS Impact productivity questionnaire
<ryanakca> wonder why... because we have "restricted"? probably because the list is allready 80 projects long
<gnomefreak> night all
<ryanakca> see yah
<bddebian> Gnight gnomefreak
<bddebian> LaserJock: !!
<bddebian> Great timing
<LaserJock> oh?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Whatever happened with gnome-chemistry-utils?
<LaserJock> ah, well
<LaserJock> yah know
<LaserJock> :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, no, not accusing just asking.  It seems to have disappeared from Debian altogether
<LaserJock> it wasn't ever in Debian proper
<bddebian> Oh, really?
<bddebian> Hmm
<LaserJock> there is a guy who maintains his own repo
<LaserJock> hang on, I'll brb. going to reboot into Ubuntu
<LaserJock> ok, this is a bit better
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: You weren't talking about the wgdd.de guy were you?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> that sounds familiar
<LaserJock> Daniel something
<bddebian> They aren't on his site that I can find
<LaserJock> it's called something different (isn't that great) I think gcu
<bddebian> Daniel Leidart
<bddebian> Ohhh
<bddebian> I see he has bkchem there :-)
<bddebian> Hmm his gcu is still 0.4.8 too :-(
<LaserJock> yes
<ryanakca> LaserJock: you had me searching for nothing :)
<LaserJock> ryanakca: did I? sorry :-)
<ryanakca>  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/eqonomize/common -> ../common = /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so should it do that?
<ryanakca> mind advocating it? or anything else I should work on in the morning
<ryanakca> yep
<ryanakca> they all point to it... it's the headers and stuff like that for kde help...
<ryanakca>  /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/*/ all have a link in them to ../common
<ryanakca> bed, see yah
<LaserJock> ryanakca: yeah, I'd ack it
<ryanakca> ack it?
<LaserJock> advocate
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<ryanakca> bye :)
<LaserJock> cya
<LaserJock> that is I'll ack it as soon as I figure out how to use this thing
* LaserJock is trying out KDE
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm going to have to join #kubuntu
<bddebian> Why?
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to use things
<LaserJock> my kde foo is quite weak ;-)
<LaserJock> fu
<bddebian> What are you trying to do
<bddebian> ?
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> copy
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Kyral> ....
<Kyral> You didn't know how to copy something in KDE?
<Kyral> .....its no different than any other WM!
* Kyral thinks that LJ had a PEBKAC moment :P
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> there is no keyboard shortcut
<LaserJock> in Konsole
<LaserJock> for copy
<LaserJock> they have one for paste though, which is odd that you would have one but not the other
<Kyral> CTRL+C
<Kyral> its a general shortcut
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> thats odd..its set as a general shortcut in the main Shortcuts menu....
<LaserJock> it doesn't work in console
<LaserJock> and paste is Shift-Insert
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I just use middle click anyway
<LaserJock> gnome-terminal is the same way
<LaserJock> ctr-shift-{c,v}
<LaserJock> I don't have very good middle clickers on any of my mice
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral yawns
<LaserJock> hi Kyral, btw
<Kyral> Busting my ass all day moving freshmen in
<bddebian> Ack, the newer gnome-chemical-utils needs chemical-mime-data
<Kyral> farking hualling fridges up stairs
<Kyral> huh LJ?
<LaserJock> what?
<Kyral> oh I didn't see the hi lol
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> I thought you were gonna ask me something for some reason
<LaserJock> oh
<Kyral> cat /dev/null > /dev/kyral
<bddebian> Damn I hate not knowing what to work on
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you want a project?
<LaserJock> one that will make you a hero? ;-)
<bddebian> Whatcha need?
<LaserJock> fix bug 43150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<bddebian> Hmm, I was just looking at that list
<bddebian> Ack, maxima is a pig :-)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I tried to just recompile it and that didn't fix it
<bddebian> LaserJock: Is maxima the issue or wxmaxima?
<LaserJock> honestly I don't know
<bddebian> LaserJock: Do you know if it's still an issue in Edgy?
<LaserJock> yes, it is I believe
<LaserJock> it's got a slightly different manifestation (I don't think it gives you an error, it just doesn't do anything)
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> As usual, gdb is less than helpful
<bluefoxicy> bddebian:  ddd is friendly enough, insight is fucked and refuses to step through LINES of source code.
<bluefoxicy> gdb is less than helpful even in cases where a debugger is exactly what you need :/
<StevenK> gdb is helpful, it's just hard to drive.
<bddebian> Well not on stripped binaries :-)
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> Of course not.
<bluefoxicy> ah
<bluefoxicy> lol no, not really :)
<bluefoxicy> bddebian:  objdump -d
* bluefoxicy ducks
<bluefoxicy> At any rate I am going to sleep.  I leave you with this note:
<bluefoxicy> CompTIA is awesome; when you get a Security+ certification they send you a card to slip in your wallet so you can be ID'd as a Certified Security Professional on the scene of a shooting or accident or whatnot.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<FliesLikeABrick> nn
<Hobbsee> * The pyromaniac waves hello
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!!!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!
* Hobbsee whines.  more work to do for debian syncs, instead of just saying "do it"
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Heh
* Hobbsee likes being a MOTU and being able to say "just do it, and trust me that i'm right"
<Quinn_Storm> hehe
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I can see where Keybuk and Kamion are coming from - some people have sync'd from Debian and dumped some changes. Due to those people, the rest of you have to convince us.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: true that.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i'll use my big pointy stick of DOOM for that!
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> which is even better when it's got FIRE at the end of it :D
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The two open sync requests I have were fixed easily to conform, which I was grateful for.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: true that.
* Hobbsee doesnt want to think about her amount of merges in edgy+1
<Hobbsee> oh, wait, that's only for debian syncs...  hmmm
<StevenK> Oh geez, which poor bastard adopted spe.
* StevenK kicks Matej Vela *hard*.
<StevenK> It should be -0.2, you bozo!
<Fujitsu> What is it actually?
<StevenK> spe? A Python editor
<Fujitsu> I mean the version.
<StevenK> Oh. 0.8.2a+repack-0.1 is my upload, and Matej uploaded 0.8.2a+repack-1
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: presumably they're not the maintainer?
* LaserJock decides to hang up his gpg key ;-)
<LaserJock> "i'll use my big pointy stick of DOOM for that!"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: whatever for?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that's MY line!
<LaserJock> I'm always a bit nervous every time I upload
<Hobbsee> why so?
<LaserJock> what if I make a mistake? and they Hobbsee will get out her big stick
<Hobbsee> oh, StevenK, that reminds me.  you need to sign my key.
<LaserJock> s/they/then/
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: hah.  more like keybuk will yell at you
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Matej is a QA type person.
<Hobbsee> last i knew, i wasnt an archive person
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I just stay in Universe where nobody will notice ;-)
* Fujitsu waves his magic wand and turns Hobbsee into an Archive admin.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee is afk for a while
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: point.  they seem to notice anyway though.  lurking doesnt work.  i tried that.
<LaserJock> darn
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: well if you're going to lurk, never do it on any of the -dev or -motu channels.
<Hobbsee> which is just no fun at all, really.
<Fujitsu> Lurking in -dev shouldn't be a problem, as it doesn't exist :P
<Hobbsee> muhahahaha
* Hobbsee just had fun with a telemarketer.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it refers to multiple places
<Fujitsu> Ooh dear.
* Fujitsu mourns the telemarketer.
<Fujitsu> What did you do to it?
* Hobbsee should have used the telemarketers guide.
<Hobbsee> "hello mrs hobbs (!), i'm here from the encology..."  "no thankyou, we're not interested in telemarketers, goodbye" *hangs up*
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<LaserJock> I just don't answer the phone
<Hobbsee> i wasnt going to
<Hobbsee> it was showing as "out of area", which i know dad sometimes ends up calling from
<Hobbsee> and dad's calls sometimes takes a while to connect too, so...
<LaserJock> bummer
* LaserJock <3 python
<LaserJock> it's so much easier than shell scripting
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<LaserJock> of course that could be just because I don't know how to write a decent shell script
<LaserJock> :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee finds neither easy.
* Hobbsee knows neither :P
* crimsun finishes updating the sync requests to comply with the new sync policy
<Hobbsee> ...
<Hobbsee> do we have to do that, or only for new ones?
<crimsun> I want to be thorough, so I made the new sync policy retroactive for all my outstanding sync requests.
<Hobbsee> true that
* Hobbsee is very lazy.
<LaserJock> new sync policy?
<tseng> yeah, what?
<LaserJock> when did we get a new policy?
<Fujitsu> Yes, a couple of days back.
<Fujitsu> Keybuk announced it on -devel-announce.
<LaserJock> hmpf
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> more work for us in exchange for getting syncs faster
<crimsun> fair tradeoff.
<tseng> link?
<tseng> or subject
<tseng> im too dumb, or tired, to see it
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html
<LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html
<tseng> yay
<Hobbsee> hey all
<micahcowan> If I submit a .debdiff that "becomes" the next package version (that is, my name is at the top of the changelog), I become the package's "creator"?
<AnAnt> I have a problem packaging a library (fsplib), it installs in debian/tmp/usr/{lib,include}. So I made fsplib0.install file which contains: usr/lib/* , and fsplib-dev.install file which contains: usr/include/*
<AnAnt> yet, the resulting packages don't have anything in the lib & include dirs ! anyone knows what may cause that ?
<Fujitsu> The extra tmp/ in the path?
<AnAnt> Fujitsu: well, isn't that the default that the package is installed in debian/tmp/, by default DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<AnAnt> ajmitch: could you remove an incomplete upload for elinks
<AnAnt> siretart: could you remove an incomplete upload for elinks
<siretart> AnAnt: done
<AnAnt> siretart: thanks
<AnAnt> anyone knows where I can get help regarding packaging libraries ?
<shawarma> Hm... When a package is said to be published, what is missing before it is actually availabe in the archive?
<shawarma> It says on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rawstudio that the package is published, but it's not apt-getable nor on packages.ubuntu.com (which is probably the same thing).
<Fujitsu> It's only been 13 hours, shawarma, and a large delay can be expected.
<Fujitsu> It's still in the New queue.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: No, it's not.
<Fujitsu> The binaries are.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Oh!
<Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=rawstudio
<Fujitsu> If you look for a source package, you can probably see it.
<shawarma> Right, I forgot that the binaries end up in a NEW queue as well.
<shawarma> hmm... Check out https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=rawstudio
<shawarma> It looks as though translations are architecture specific.. That can't be right.
<Fujitsu> No, I think it just means that the package has translations.
<Fujitsu> Although I have no experience with Soyuz.
<shawarma> rawstudio_0.3-0ubuntu1_powerpc_translations.tar.gz sure does look arch specific. :-)
<Fujitsu> I do like the translation icon.
<shawarma> brb
<Fujitsu> Hrm.
<Fujitsu> SO it does.
<Fujitsu> Although if you look at other binary packages in NEW, they also have the translations like that.
<Arbiter> Can someone review these packages, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2955 (ktagebuch) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2953 (knowit) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2952 (kcmpureftpd). Thanks
<POX_> hi, I have created some packages for Debian and they were copied to Ubuntu Edgy (universe). What should I do to keep them up to date in Ubuntu? They were automatically synchronized at least till 12. july. Should I upload them (they're building fine in edgy's chroot) to revu.tauware.de?
<geser> which package is it?
<POX_> https://launchpad.net/people/pox/+packages
<POX_> griffith, paste*, ...
<imbrandon> POX_: you have newer version avaible ?>
<POX_> yes, they already in Debian
<POX_> + are
<imbrandon> unstable ? if so we can just sync them
<imbrandon> if changes are nessesary for the ubuntu ones
<POX_> some even in testing
<imbrandon> i can sponsor them
<POX_> can I just list package names, or do you want links to sources?
<imbrandon> ok to make my life a bit easier can you give me a list of the ones that have newer versions in debain and i'll get them either merged or synced today
<imbrandon> nah package names is fine
<imbrandon> or you can shoot me a email with links to dsc files
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> what ever you wish
<imbrandon> ( email is imbrandon@kubuntu.org if you go that route )
<POX_> imbrandon: thanks, I will send you mail in couple of minutes
<imbrandon> sure thing 
<POX_> well if you want just names, here they are: griffith, paste, pastedeploy, pastescript
<POX_> (source packages)
<tseng> azeem: stupid trolls.
<imbrandon> POX_: ok that works , no need for a email then
<POX_> imbrandon: and  routes
<imbrandon> moins tseng
<tseng> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> you know untill burgers blog i never knew you were and old gentoo guy 
<tseng> yes, some years ago
<imbrandon> ok POX_ i'll get on that as soon as this compile finishes ( ~20 minutes )
<POX_> ok, no problem
<tseng> it was the fastest way to gnome crack of the day before ubuntu came along
<imbrandon> POX_: for future ref your more than welcome to email me with dsc links i can dget
<imbrandon> or pop in here 
<POX_> ok thanks
<imbrandon> tseng: ahh  thats how i came to be with kubuntu ( fastest way for kde crack in a packaged distro heh )
<tseng> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> before this is was a SuSE man but suse/rpm is too much of a pita
<tseng> ugh
<imbrandon> for me personaly anyhow some swear by it
<tseng> never could stomach suse
<imbrandon> well they always have had the latest kde crack i give them that, but any rpm distro is to much of a pita IMHO
<imbrandon> but thats just me personaly 
<BazziR> rpms make baby jesus cry :(
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Arbiter> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi Arbiter, imbrandon
<bddebian> & Kamping_Kaiser :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<Arbiter> ;)
<gnomefreak> there is no ubuntu packaging guide right? we use the debian one?
<imbrandon> !packguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<azeem> gnomefreak: there is one AFAIK
<imbrandon> gnomefreak: ^^ there ya go 
<gnomefreak> ty
<welshbyte> good afternoon
<bddebian> Heya welshbyte
<welshbyte> ello bddebian
<gnomefreak> for pbuilder do i just grab the debootstrap.deb from packages.ubuntu.com and than run the pbuilder set up?
<gnomefreak> yay pbuilder is building :)
<imbrandon> now put a dapper/edgy/sid pbuilder on the same box 
<imbrandon> thats fun ( actualy its easy once you have one )
* imbrandon is afk FOOOOOOOOOOD
<gnomefreak> i should be setting pbuilder up for all of those?
<imbrandon>  hmmm hmm hmmm  lunch time 
<imbrandon> gnomefreak: wel if you will be building for those yes
<imbrandon> those are the most common used atm
<gnomefreak> ah ok im gonna start with edgy and see how it goes first i think ;)
<imbrandon> ok lunch time bbiab  humms some more 
<gnomefreak> this is taking its time brb smoke
<gnomefreak> how do you make a changelog file? is it just mkdir changelog?
<azeem> mkdir?
<gnomefreak> the naming is what im concerned about more than anything
<azeem> are you talking about the debian/changelog file?
<gnomefreak> yes
<azeem> what naming are you referring to?
<gnomefreak> the name of the file
<gnomefreak> just changelog?
<gnomefreak> i have to save it as something in the dir im in
<POX_> gnomefreak: man dch
<azeem> debian/changelog is debian/changelog, yes
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> there is something im not seeing when i go to use dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot its telling me error: badly formatted heading line, at changelog line 1
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is
<gnomefreak> first line of changelog is Source: hello
<POX_> gnomefreak: changelog or _control_ file?
<gnomefreak> changelog its telling me
<gnomefreak> i copied nad pasted the error
<POX_> "Source: hello" should be in debian/control
<POX_> ah
<POX_> what do you have in changelog
<POX_> package name?
<POX_> did you change control file as well?
<gnomefreak> package: hello
<azeem> gnomefreak: paste the content of debian/changelog to a pastebin
<gnomefreak> ok
<gnomefreak> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21707
<azeem> that's a control file, not a changelog file
<azeem> gnomefreak: see a random source package for how debian/changelog should be formatted
<gnomefreak> could be a good reason :(
<gnomefreak> ok heres the real changelog now its giving me error in line 5 (name and date line) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21708
<azeem> there's at least a space missing at the beginning of the lind
<azeem> line
<gnomefreak> k
<azeem> gnomefreak: try to run dch -i
<azeem> that should give you a new changelog entry
<azeem> then use the generated date line for your original one and delete the rest
<gnomefreak> ok ty
<cypher1> totem-gstreamer packages seems to have some problems
<cypher1> totem-gstreamer available is 1.4.3
<cypher1> while totem-gstreamer-firefox-plugin depends on 1.4.1
<cypher1>   totem-gstreamer-firefox-plugin: Depends: totem-gstreamer (= 1.4.1-0ubuntu4) but 1.4.3-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<cypher1> E: Broken packages
<cypher1> should i file a Bug report for this ??
<gnomefreak> i would but i thought the ff plugin was just updated in edgy yesterday
<gnomefreak> is fakeroot normally a pain in the butt? its giving me permissions denied line 150
<gnomefreak> im looking at usr/bin/fakeroot line 150 and it looks fine
<tseng> fakeroot isnt magic, it cant give you rights to root owned files
<tseng> or things you generally don't have access to
<tseng> sounds like you have an unclean build tree with root owned files
<tseng> or a makefile trying to install things in the real prefix
<tseng> something like this
<tseng> yeah?
<gnomefreak> im going over it again lets see
<tseng> DESTDIR not respected
<gnomefreak> hard to say ive been following the guide and i havent used sudo yet
<gnomefreak> looking through the rules file i see nothing refering to fakeroot (could this be an issue?)
<azeem> no
<azeem> check your make install target
<gnomefreak> this line $(MAKE) INSTALL_PROGRAM="$(INSTALL_PROGRAM)" \
<tseng> no
<tseng> make install target upstream
<tseng> not in rules
<gnomefreak> h
<gnomefreak> oh
<azeem> gnomefreak: well, you should set DESTDIR in rules
<tseng> if you didnt already
<gnomefreak> i didnt i just used the one with the packaging guide
<azeem> so did you set prefix?
<bddebian> OK, WTF.  I attach gdb to maxima and now wxmaxima doesn't puke
<gnomefreak> in rules?
<azeem> yes
<tseng> bddebian: race condition?
<gnomefreak> prefix=$$(pwd)/debian/tmp/usr install  is the prefix line in rules
<azeem> maybe that doesn't work for your package
<bddebian> tseng: How would I know?  I do know it's failing on event.GetSocketEvent()
<tseng> s/pwd/CURDIR ?
<azeem> gnomefreak: you said you're using fakeroot, right?
<gnomefreak> trying to
<tseng> bddebian: just a guess, gdb slows things down
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot is what im trying to run
<azeem> why -S?
<azeem> gnomefreak: paste the full output
<gnomefreak> to build a source package
<azeem> ok, but then your issue is something else, sorry
<tseng> like a root-owned file in the source tree
<gnomefreak> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21713
<tseng> ls -la debian/rules ?
<azeem> gnomefreak: uhm
<gnomefreak> -rw------- 1 gnomefreak gnomefreak 2200 2006-08-26 13:13 debian/rules
<tseng> there you go.
<azeem> gnomefreak: it would've helped if you pasted the full error line from the beginning
<tseng> yeah, seriously
<gnomefreak> azeem: i did
<azeem> no
<gnomefreak> no?
<tseng> nope.
<azeem> 19:15 < gnomefreak> is fakeroot normally a pain in the butt? its giving me permissions denied line 150
<gnomefreak> line 150?
<tseng> no
<azeem> it says
<azeem> /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 150: debian/rules: Permission denied
<tseng> debian/rules dude
<gnomefreak> oh
<tseng> please don't make up what you think are the important parts in the future
<tseng> im off, bbl
<tseng> chmod +x for the win
<gnomefreak> ok ty
<seaLne> could some clarify for me do completly new packages have to be in edgy by featurefreeze or universefreeze?  i had assumed universefreeze
<gnomefreak> after i run lintian -i *.dsc and it comes up good im done?
<gnomefreak> seaLne: i thought it was universe also but im looking it up
<crimsun> gnomefreak: did you test-install, test-upgrade, test-downgrade, test-remove?
<crimsun> seaLne: universe freeze.
<crimsun> late Sept.
<gnomefreak> no :(
<gnomefreak> i just tested it in pbuilder
<gnomefreak> and everyting seemed on in the pbuilder test than i ran the above to check for common mistakes
<gnomefreak> i think pbuilder only ran test install by the looks of it
<azeem> gnomefreak: check lintian on the resulting *i386.changes
<welshbyte> and linda
<gnomefreak> dont know how to use linda
<welshbyte> man linda ;)
* gnomefreak doesnt like azeem's idea cause it errored lol
* gnomefreak hates errors, ok let me look at these
<gnomefreak> im assuming this is bad error: cannot find binary, udeb or source package *i386.changes in dist or lab (skipping)
<gnomefreak> ok i used linda -C *i386.changes and it looks like a small part of a backtrace
<gnomefreak> s/backtrace/is a traceback
<welshbyte> gnomefreak: ls *i386.changes
<gnomefreak> ls *i386.changes
<gnomefreak> oops
<gnomefreak> ls: *i386.changes: No such file or directory
<welshbyte> exactly
<welshbyte> gnomefreak: you should be running lintian and linda on the .dsc file and the .debs that you build from the source package
<seaLne> crimsun: ta
<gnomefreak> lintian -i *.dsc   << ran that i dont see any .debs in the files sadly but looking again
<welshbyte> gnomefreak: if you're building with pbuilder, debs are usually put in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
<gnomefreak> ok looking
<gnomefreak> yes i found a *i386.changes and a deb in there :) so run linda nad the onter on those files?
<gnomefreak> other
<welshbyte> yep
<gnomefreak> ok linda didnt like it
<azeem> run linda like lintian, i.e. on .dsc and .changes filse
<azeem> files
<gnomefreak> using linda -C file.changes and file.dsc right?
<gnomefreak> i found old copyrite address gives me the new one
<azeem> no idea what you mean, sorry
<welshbyte> you don't need the -C
<gnomefreak> oh ok lets try again
<gnomefreak> linda gave me this on the .changes "E: hello; Binary /usr/bin/hello contains unneeded section comment."
<gnomefreak> same on the .deb
<welshbyte> gnomefreak: what language is the software you're packaging written in?
<gnomefreak> english if you mean programming launguage it looks like bash
<welshbyte> you're packaging bash scripts?
<azeem> gnomefreak: no, it's probably written in C
<azeem> gnomefreak: looks like you are not stripping the binary
<gnomefreak> C or since the traceback gave me .py maybe python
<welshbyte> azeem: linda has problems with bytecode iirc and gives that warning
<azeem> gnomefreak: linda is written in python
* gnomefreak working right off the guide
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<azeem> gnomefreak: work off your own, I'd suggest
<azeem> gnomefreak: you are still packaging GNU hello, right?
<gnomefreak> yep
<gnomefreak> i fixed all the other errors
<welshbyte> ah
<gnomefreak> im running pbuilder again after changing the copywrite address for GNU
<gnomefreak> so pbuilder runs what looks like /.configure and make
<gnomefreak> now trying with debhelper
<gnomefreak> what in gods name does this mean dpkg-source: error: syntax error in control file ./hello-2.1.1/debian/control at line 16: continued value line not in field (im concered about the conituned line not in field part
<crimsun> pastebin the debian/control
<gnomefreak> k
<gnomefreak> the full error is listed first   http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21716
<azeem> the Description looks funny
<azeem> the Description: line should have at least 70 characters
<azeem> eh, at most
<crimsun> there's a duplicate Build-Depends line, and yeah, the Description is mucked
<gnomefreak> if i back the next line up to the one that errors on than theres no space between words
<crimsun> blank lines should have a marker, generally '.'
<azeem> no space between words?
<gnomefreak> yeah i had those in there once
<azeem> gnomefreak: did you actually look at another package's control file yet?
<gnomefreak> azeem: im looking at the one for this package
<gnomefreak> its on the packaging guide
<azeem> then maybe look at a couple others as well
<gnomefreak> heres new one with new error http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21718
<gnomefreak> this is second ive looked at 1st = hello prgram i did first and than this one plus the 2 in the guide
<gnomefreak> the errors i spent most time on in first hello package was tab/space errors
<azeem> the first line of your long description is a .
<azeem> remove that line
<azeem> or rather, actually make the short decription (what comes after Description:) not be part of the long description
<gnomefreak> ok let me see if that helps
<gnomefreak> nope i change the paragraphs around in all directions still getting the lin-colon error
<azeem> repaste
<gnomefreak> not field-colon-value) error
<gnomefreak> ok
<gnomefreak> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21719
<gnomefreak> i triedd both with and without the . for blank lines same error either way
<azeem> gnomefreak: what packaging guide are you reading?
<gnomefreak> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
<azeem> the first line of your long description still has a '.'
<azeem> gnomefreak: in my browser that renders as "Description: The classic greeting, and a good example"
<azeem> and then
<azeem> " The GNU hello program produces a familiar, friendly greeting.  It"
<gnomefreak> yeah
<azeem> (mind the space at the beginning)
<azeem> your Description line is way too long
<azeem> and your first line reads "."
<gnomefreak> you mean the . between paragraphs?
<azeem> 21:32 < azeem> and your first line reads "." 21:33 -!- tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac]  has quit [Connection timed out] 
<azeem> oops, sorry
<azeem> gnomefreak: what is the difference between the short and the long description?
<gnomefreak> the long disciption tells you about it the short is referring you to another
<azeem> to another?
<gnomefreak> sorry to same
<azeem> I am not talking about your package, I am asking in general
<gnomefreak> the long should tell you in more detail what the app is and does
<azeem> what is the short description in your package?
<gnomefreak> little more detail
<gnomefreak> it should tell you name of the app for the most part maybe refer you to man page
<azeem> what is the short description in your package?
<gnomefreak> right after description:
<azeem> until?
<gnomefreak> the classic greeting starts long
<azeem> then maybe the pastebin is failing
<azeem> hrm, or wait
<gnomefreak> to what it is.  << last line of short
<gnomefreak> azeem: in pastebin look at the white part on bottom to see real format
<gnomefreak> thats not even right
<azeem> that doesn't render line breaks
<azeem> gnomefreak: so where does the short description end?
<gnomefreak> "to what it is" the very last line of short
<azeem> ok
<azeem> so what is between the end of the short description, and the starting of the long description?
<gnomefreak> just the . in the blank lines
<azeem> why is it there?
<azeem> is it in the packaging guide as well?
<gnomefreak> yes
<gnomefreak> ok not real sure what happened there http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21721  screenshot of file
<azeem> what is that supposed to show?
<gnomefreak> the exact format of it
<azeem> the question is rather:  Why do you see a "." on an otherwise blank line in between the end of the short description and the starting of the long description in the packaging guide?
<azeem> because I don't see it here
<gnomefreak> i had it there if you look at the non screen shot post
<azeem> you said you had it there because it was in the packaging guide as well
<gnomefreak> correct i had them there since they are in the guide but still errored iirc same but i will tell you in a moment
<gnomefreak> change that they are there in my file atm running the command again
<gnomefreak> same error with or without the . on blanklines
<welshbyte> gnomefreak: read http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s-descriptions
<azeem> welshbyte: I was just about to suggest that
<bddebian> welshbyte: Hey, old buddy, old pal..
<welshbyte> bddebian: ello ... uh... bddebian :)
<azeem> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description is useful as well
<bddebian> welshbyte: Are you bored? ;-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: a bit
<bddebian> welshbyte: How's your debug (gdb?) skills? :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: uh, i have basic skill with it :)
<bddebian> Hmm
<welshbyte> what needs debugging?
<gnomefreak> k reading
<bddebian> Well I rebuilt maxima/wxmaxima unstripped but when I attach gdb to maxima, wxmaxima doesn't fail
<bddebian> Bug #43150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<azeem> bddebian: and it fails if you just run the unstripped binaries normally?
<bddebian> azeem: Yes
<bddebian> tseng thinks maybe it's a race condition
<bddebian> I know it fails on event.GetSocketEvent() in src/wxMaxima.cpp
<welshbyte> if the bug is on dapper i'll have a look at it
<bddebian> Aye, Dapper
<crimsun> gnomefreak: are you located near the Triangle area?
<gnomefreak> yes
<gnomefreak> im out by jordan lake
<crimsun> I'm going to meet up with some LUGmates for dinner at Elmo's (in Carrboro); if you want to do a quick keysigning I can
<gnomefreak> tonight?
<crimsun> yes, I'm leaving in 20 mins
<crimsun> (from Greensboro)
<gnomefreak> ack i cant make it tonight
<crimsun> np
<gnomefreak> thank you though
<bddebian> Can I come? :-)
<gnomefreak> brb changing pcs
<crimsun> bddebian: if you can make it to Raleigh, NC by 5:30 PM EDT, sure :)
<bddebian> Hmm, that might be tough :-)
<welshbyte> bddebian: rules file looks basic but i haven't learnt cdbs yet... how do i pass an option to the configure script?
<bddebian> welshbyte: I think you could pass DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS or whatever it's called?
<azeem> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is an environment variable
<azeem> welshbyte: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml is pretty good
<bddebian> Well export I meant
<welshbyte> brb phone
<bddebian> welshbyte: Otherwise I think you have to add a congigure:<package> target
<azeem> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2500057 talks about it
<azeem> bddebian: but that wouldn't get appended to the configure line
<bddebian> azeem: Oh, aye
<welshbyte> ack, haven't created a pbuilder on this machine yet *waits*
<welshbyte> uh, my pbuilder can't satisfy the dependency on libwxgtk2.6-dev
<welshbyte> but it's installed fine... odd
<bddebian> welshbyte: Do you have universe setup in your pbuilderrc?
<welshbyte> heh probably not.. what do i need to add?
<bddebian> OTHERMIRROR="deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe multiverse"
<welshbyte> ah components is commented out
<welshbyte> i miss my development machine
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<welshbyte> ello LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian and welshbyte
<welshbyte> ah building at last
<welshbyte> hope this one doesn't take 16 hours ;)
<bddebian> Nah, it's relatively quick :)
<welshbyte> cool
<Whoopie> this is really OT, but I hope you can help: there's a guy on another channel who offends other user in this channel. How is it possible kick or ban him?
<LaserJock> Whoopie: perhaps try #ubuntu-ops?
<Whoopie> LaserJock: it's not an ubuntu channel. Sorry, didn't mention it. But it's a freenode channel.
<LaserJock> Whoopie: some of the Ubuntu ops are also freenode staff
<Whoopie> LaserJock: ok, I try. Thanks!
<welshbyte> bddebian: how did you get it to build unstripped?
<bddebian> welshbyte: You can either remove dh_strip, or : export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="debug nostrip noopt"
<LaserJock> yep
<welshbyte> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-08-27
<stefan> hi folks
<sistpoty> gee new version of kvirc reset my settings *g*
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty!!
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> how are you? I haven't seen you for a while
<sistpoty> thanks, I'm fine... have been on holidays for a week and before I was quite busy :/
<LaserJock> ah
<welshbyte> ello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey welshbyte
<Hobbsee> hey everyone else
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock
<bluefoxicy> aye i'm so bored.
<Hobbsee> fix some bugs.
<sistpoty> :)
<bluefoxicy> heh
<LaserJock> oh excelent
<LaserJock> KDE just decided to hibernate me
<bluefoxicy> haha
<bluefoxicy> YOU ARE TOO FAT YOU NEED SLEEP Z.Z
<bluefoxicy> ALL WINTER.
<StevenK> Hah. Winter is over here.
<LaserJock> yes, well it's a bit annoying
<LaserJock> I really am trying to like KDE, but it isn't going as well as I had hoped
<bluefoxicy> LJ I feel your pain
<bluefoxicy> Wait..... no, no I don't.  I tried KDE but I realized that was a dumb idea.
<LaserJock> it has very nice aspects
<LaserJock> but it sorta seems clunky after using gnome for some time
<bluefoxicy> what I had was I liked it
<bluefoxicy> and then after a week I started getting physically ill at the ugly interface
<bluefoxicy> and noticing that I had to log out/in every 3 days to get back out of swap (I was 600 megs in, and had 768 megs of physical ram besides)
<bluefoxicy> eventually I just gave up
<bluefoxicy> of course, this is coming from someone who determined it would be a more productive use of his time to complain about GNOME + apps eating 400M of RAM than to complain about KDE + apps eating 1300 megs of ram
<bluefoxicy> so I may be biased.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well KDE sure does have some nice apps
<LaserJock> I think I'm just going to have to give it more time and learn how to use it right
<bluefoxicy> I got tired of Konq fast and moved back to Firefox; never really left Thunderbird; hated Koffice (I had just gotten my office specialist and word expert certs, I was MUCH more comfortable with abiword and gnumeric than kword and kspread)
<sistpoty> well, rat-poison seems nice ;)... but I didn't memorize the key-codes, so I didn't really get used to it (if anybody ever will *g*)
<bluefoxicy> honestly I don't know what people see in KDE
<LaserJock> yes, well. All window managers suck, some just suck less ;-)
<bluefoxicy> whenever I ask GNOME people, they tell me, "KDE sucks"
<bluefoxicy> and whenever I ask KDE people, they tell me "It's MUCH better than GNOME"
<bluefoxicy> between these two common responses I haven't gotten a lot of useful data.
<LaserJock> like I said, I like the apps and kio stuff. I like kwrite, konsole and there are quite a few KDE apps for things I do that are pretty good
<bluefoxicy> konsole is nice because it has one extra button
<bluefoxicy> (which makes new terminals)
<bluefoxicy> that's the only thing i like about it over gnome-terminal
<sistpoty> ctrl-alt-n :)
<LaserJock> heh, I actually don't like the button so much. I would rather have a shortcut
<welshbyte> or ctrl-alt-t for a new tab ;)
<bluefoxicy> yeah, I use the shortcut
<bluefoxicy> ctrl-shift-t btw
<welshbyte> oh yeah :)
<LaserJock> but I like how configurable konsole is though
<bluefoxicy> ........... it's a terminal editor
<welshbyte> i just mash keys without looking and they works, y'see
<bluefoxicy> you type shit in it
<bluefoxicy> in mine I made the background black like a REAL tty
<welshbyte> grey on black ftw :)
<sistpoty> well, I must admit that I prefer kde because of 1) I found out how to assign keys to launch konsole 2) I use kmail as only mail-client for some time 3) and most important: I'm used to itt
<LaserJock> well, if I'm going to work in the thing for 12hrs straight every day I'd like to be able to mess around with it ;-)
<bluefoxicy> haha
<bluefoxicy> "OK I'm bored of work time to fiddle with the options for a half hour"
<LaserJock> well, not so much that as eye strain, etc.
<bluefoxicy> ok I'm bored, anyone not mind being tortured for a few hours?
<bluefoxicy> no, really, I'll warm the hot iron pokers.
<LaserJock> ggrrrrrr
<LaserJock> it hibernated again
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: um, how?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you low on battery power or something?
<LaserJock> no
<Hobbsee> KDE doesnt just hibernate at random.
<LaserJock> I'm plugged in and have 92%
<Hobbsee> unless it's on crack.
<LaserJock> I'll be in the middle of typing
<LaserJock> and it just hibernates
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, you running GNOME at the same time?
<LaserJock> no
<Fujitsu> Because that often happens to me if I'm running both...
<LaserJock> the only thing I can see is if it thinks I'm running out of battery
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure what to do. Maybe I'll just turn off the low power thing
<LaserJock> hmm, actually I don't think that's it
<LaserJock> because it should notify me
<Fujitsu> This /is/ KDE :P
* Fujitsu ducks from Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee attacks Fujitsu with her LONG POINTY STICK OF DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Fujitsu> Not again!
* Fujitsu prods Hobbsee with a long, red-hot, pointy, electrified stick of uber-doom.
<Hobbsee> hah.  doesnt work
<Fujitsu> It does, believe me.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: should, yes.  is this edgy or dapper?
<LaserJock> dapper
<LaserJock> sorry, was trying to make some dinner
<LaserJock> darn it, it did it again
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> anybody have an idea of even where to look?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ask on #kde?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe on #kde-devel might even be more appropriated *g*
<stefan> yay, I finally managed to kick me off from irc with some /s command (I wanted to write s/ instead) *g*
<LaserJock> ok, last try
<LaserJock> I've disabled everythin I can see with hibernate
<LaserJock> :-)
<sistpoty> LaserJock: good luck ;)
<LaserJock> if that fails then I think I'll have to switch over to the dark side until I figure it out
<sistpoty> LaserJock: dark side: suse?
<LaserJock> heh, Gnome
<sistpoty> *g*
<LaserJock> suse is more than the dark side
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, yeah.
<sistpoty> hi bddebian btw
<LaserJock> perhaps a sith lord or something
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, sistpoty, Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<LaserJock> I actually haven't used another distro since I installed Ubuntu
<LaserJock> that's over a year now
<Fujitsu> Great :D
<LaserJock> I can't believe it
<Fujitsu> Neither have I, and it's been 18 months.
<LaserJock> I used to average an install every 2 weeks
<sistpoty> if XP is a dsitro, than I'm more than guilty :(... but I need the money ;)
<Fujitsu> O_o
<LaserJock> ah, well I use XP and OS X everyday so ...
* Fujitsu hyperventilates.
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> don't do that
<LaserJock> IRC CPR isn't very effective ;-)
<Fujitsu> Probably not...
<Fujitsu> But XP.. and..... OS X.........................................
* Fujitsu dies.
<LaserJock> hehe
<tseng> keybuk has lost his mind
* Fujitsu pities LaserJock.
<Fujitsu> Why, tseng?
<tseng> Fujitsu: upstart
<tseng> it might even work
<Fujitsu> I doubt it...
<tseng> I said might
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I actually enjoy OS X quite a bit
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<Fujitsu> It's not too bad... At least it's UNIX-based, I guess.
<LaserJock> not that I'd go out and buy it
<bddebian> Well Windows/XP is VMS based so.. ;-P
<Fujitsu> Yeah, upstart is a really good idea, and it'll hopefully work...
<LaserJock> Windows is based on many good projects that MS steals/rips off ...
<Fujitsu> Yah.
<sistpoty> hey tseng ;)
<bddebian> So Mr. sistpoty, I don't rate for your games team? :'-(
<LaserJock> but at work I'm pretty much forced to us OS X as my boss bought us all iMacs
<LaserJock> so that's actually what I spend the majority of my time in
<sistpoty> bddebian: ?
<bddebian> sistpoty: On LP I asked to join motugames :-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: strange, I didn't get a mail... maybe because a) I'm not the owner/administrator b) I was on holidays and deleted much spam (and maybe some ham as well)
<LaserJock> hah
<sistpoty> bddebian: yay, I can't approve you :(
<bddebian> sistpoty: :-)
<Hobbsee> tseng: has it broken anything yet?
<sistpoty> bddebian: you should ping Lathiat instead ;)
<bddebian> I never see him on
<LaserJock> bddebian: email him ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: or better yet, assign it to ubuntu-archive
<sistpoty> hehe
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> Well it's not THAT important.  I can be an unofficial member like MOTUScience ;-P
<LaserJock> yeah, the unofficial member who does more then all the "real" members combined ;-)
<bddebian> pfft
<sistpoty> bddebian: btw.. I want to convert pkg-games-devel (debian games team) to a team once lp can do it and thus replace motugames with it (since it makes more sense imo to do the development for both debian and ubuntu than ubuntu only)
<bddebian> Ah, cool
<sistpoty> but the bug on lp to convert ppl into teams is still open :(
<LaserJock> are the requirements for pkg-games-devel different than motugames?
<LaserJock> membership requirements
<Hobbsee> bye all
<sistpoty> LaserJock: pkg-games-devel is the debian team that cares for game packages (list: debian-devel-games@lists.debian.org)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but is that open to everybody, I'm guessing so
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes it is... I'm a member too
<LaserJock> I suppose Debian teams work similar to Ubuntu
<sistpoty> LaserJock: kind of... we use svn of alioth for all packages that are maintained by the team
<Yagisan> LaserJock, it appears to. I lurk on there list and only chime in if it affects my game
<Yagisan> s/there/their
<LaserJock> I'm sort of in a chemistry team, using svn
<LaserJock> but we have no mailing list or anything
<LaserJock> I was just wondering how formal the teams got in Debian
<sistpoty> LaserJock: well the games team group maintains game packages for all of its members, but not all game packages in debian
<sistpoty> s/group maintains/maintains in a group manner/
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know how I can tell aptitude to *not* remove half of my computer?
<LaserJock> i swear, aptitude can be one of the most frustrating/annoying apps I know :/
* sistpoty is off to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> cya sistpoty
<Yagisan> nice
<Yagisan> edgys ffmpeg FTBFS in my pbuilder on i386
<Yagisan> but amd64 worked fine
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> usually it's the other way around
<Yagisan> LaserJock, the error is this -> i386/dsputil_mmx.c:630: error: can't find a register in class 'GENERAL_REGS' while reloading 'asm'
<Yagisan> I think I'll just be happy with my freshly backported ffmpeg on amd64 (who needs i386 anyway :P )
<imbrandon> gmorning all
* imbrandon yawns
<LaserJock> morning?
<LaserJock> where are you?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> well its 12:07am , tech morning 
<imbrandon> @now us/central
<Ubugtu> Current time in US/Central: August 27 2006, 00:08:11
<ubuntu-es> imbrandon: Error: "now" is not a valid command.
* imbrandon /kicks ubuntu-es
<imbrandon> LaserJock: us/mountain for you right ? i can never rember if reno is mountain or pacific
<LaserJock> pacific
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> 10:09 here
<Arbiter> it's 7:10 here :D
<imbrandon> my damn wife called from there tonight, apparently someone broke out her windshield near sparks at a maveric
<LaserJock> bummer
<imbrandon> heh yea, considering i have to pay for it LOL
<LaserJock> bummer+
<imbrandon> well i dont HAVE to i guess, but it would be shitty is i dident 
<imbrandon> s/is/if
<LaserJock> well, at least she has a car, which is more than I can say for many Sun Valley residents ;-)
<imbrandon> heh true, and atleaste it was __my__ baby ( the camero ) it was the saturn
<LaserJock> cellphone, yes ... meth, yes ... car, no
<imbrandon> hahahahah sooooo true
<imbrandon> jesus and you can only truely realize how true that is once you've lived there
<imbrandon> very sad but very true
<LaserJock> watching 40 year old men riding a bike down the road talking on their cell phone would be funny if it wasn't so sad
<imbrandon> exactly
<imbrandon> and actualy riding a bike as trans wouldent be bad if it was pratical for them etc, but thats not the reson they do it, its becouse they spend the money at the casino / meth
<imbrandon> thats the sad part
<imbrandon> i must say though reno/sparks seems better about that in general than vegas just from the little i've seen in vegas
<imbrandon> but rurual nv meth is still a big problem too ( i'm guessing all over the usa {world} )
<imbrandon> anyhow .... MOTU's wasssssup , whats popin tonight ? anything ..... ?
* imbrandon tries to find the amarok libvisual bug
<LaserJock> well, I'm trying to get used to KDE
<imbrandon> heheh good man
<LaserJock> hibernation was weird so I turned it off
<LaserJock> it was randomly hibernating on me
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> are you using the guidance-power-manager ?
<imbrandon> s/are/were
<imbrandon>  /konsole
<imbrandon> gah
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> I'm just using the default
<imbrandon> dapper ?
<imbrandon> yea g-p-m isnt default in dapper yet
<LaserJock> dapper
<imbrandon> and still new in edgy
<LaserJock> I just went into the System Settings
<imbrandon> oh man, it just started storming big here all of the sudden /me hopes the ups is working correctly
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea thats about the only way to do it in dapper
<imbrandon> powersave/kpowersave thought systemsettings
<imbrandon> through*
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> well, it would be cool if it worked
<LaserJock> but at least I can turn it off
<imbrandon> hehe yea
<imbrandon> wow scott has an essay on the planet
<Arbiter> is the wiki down?
<imbrandon> Arbiter: seems so
<imbrandon> might be maint, i havent looked at the ML lately
<crimsun> mm bless I2.  01:41:09 (5.00 MB/s) - `ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-i386.iso' saved [730675200/730675200] 
<imbrandon> 
<FunnyLookinHat> Darn updates today owned my AIGLX   : )
<crimsun> really? works fine here.
<imbrandon> works fine on my ibook too
<imbrandon> ( that is ati based )
<LaserJock> AIGLX works with nvidia, right?
<LaserJock> or no
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: as of about 2 days ago, yes, but there has not been an lrm update for it
<imbrandon> LaserJock: it will real soon
<imbrandon> err yea what Burgundavia said
<imbrandon> 
<LaserJock> how about in Dapper?
<crimsun> nope, and nope.
<imbrandon> probably not
<LaserJock> interesting
<imbrandon> afaik it needs xorg 7.1
<Burgundavia> that would require xorg 7.1, which is never going to happen
<Burgundavia> for any aiglx, regardless of chipset
<LaserJock> ah, I don't keep up with this stuff, somebody just asked
<imbrandon> ;P
<FunnyLookinHat> This is what I get for running unstable software   : )
<crimsun> (what?! you're mister raging ubuntu-aholic motu, you have to keep up!!)
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> crimsun: not with XGL or AIGLX crack
<crimsun> I'm afraid you don't have a choice, mister celebrity.
<LaserJock> whatever ;-)
<LaserJock> I think crimsun should be the celebrity since he knows all the answers and does the real work around here :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<crimsun> too busy to be a celebrity.
<imbrandon> we gonna start a reality tv show "MOTUStar" where YOU !?!! could be the next big MOTU ...... ala bad RockStar pun
<Arbiter> Can someone review these packages, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2955 (ktagebuch) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2953 (knowit) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2952 (kcmpureftpd). Thanks
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<Arbiter> :D
<LaserJock> imbrandon; i get to be Tommy Lee !
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> or maybe Dave Navarro, I can't decide
<imbrandon> i like Navarro better personaly
<imbrandon> 
<imbrandon> i dont even know who won, i watched all but the last epsisode
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I only watched 1
<LaserJock> too busy working being an Ubuntu-holic
<imbrandon> it was kinda cool if its on, i wouldent go outa my way to watch it though
<imbrandon> heh i have a tv in the room i keep going but its on fox news 98% of the time ( unless stargate is on ) heh
<imbrandon> or i have amarok cranked
<LaserJock> ack, sounds like my parents house. Fox News has become the background noise
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> the same thing, over... and over ... and over... again
<imbrandon> hahahahah yup
<imbrandon> ( as with any news network )
<LaserJock> I am blessed to not have cable or satellite
<imbrandon> *cough*torrents*cough*
<LaserJock> uggg
<LaserJock> I just don't pay attention to news
<LaserJock> I just check yahoo now and then
<imbrandon> i ahve google feeds as my start page, that 90% of my news
<imbrandon> brb
<Arbiter> any REVU admin around?
<imbrandon> W: knowit source: source-contains-CVS-dir admin/CVS
<imbrandon> W: ktagebuch source: source-contains-CVS-dir admin/CVS
<Arbiter> imbrandon eh... it's upstream...
<Arbiter> it's stuff created by kdevelop
<imbrandon> still shouldent be in there ( the source package )
<Arbiter> why not? the whole source package is not a CVS checkout... admin/CVS is just an upstream directory...
<imbrandon> becouse its policy , i dunno why , LOL
<Arbiter> rotfl
<Arbiter> pff... i need to modify the .orig tarball (again)
<Arbiter> :P
<StevenK> Only if you care.
<StevenK> It's a warning, a nicety.
<StevenK> As long as said CVS directories don't actually get installed, you're pretty fine.
<imbrandon> ahh 
<Arbiter> StevenK: but i think that lintian assumes that the _whole_ source packages is a CVS checkout
<StevenK> Nah, lintian just looks for directories called 'CVS'.
<Arbiter> eh :D
<StevenK> Trust me, lintian isn't that clever.
* StevenK isn't biased or anything.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> someone needs to update lintian on REVU anyhow for new standards and edgy etc
<Arbiter> so i don't need to modify the .orig tarball then? :)
<StevenK> I *think* that's been done for Linda, but I can't remember. :-/
<imbrandon> yea linda is updated
<imbrandon> afaik
<StevenK> Hah, so you aren't actually certain either.
<imbrandon> hehe no but it isnt spitting out crazy stuff like lintian
* StevenK gets sick of working over the weekend.
<imbrandon> StevenK: lol i bet, i've just been "goffin" off this weekend
<imbrandon> i'm gonna go shopping tomarrow , my son's 2nd birthday is next week
<imbrandon> 
* StevenK is on call.
* StevenK glares at the on call phone.
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Then again, I get paid for like 15 hours this weekend, so score.
<Arbiter> imbrandon or StevenK, perhaps you're a REVU admin?
<imbrandon> i'm only a reviwer, there is a list of admins on the wiki/lp
<imbrandon> reviewer*
<Arbiter> imbrandon but the wiki is down :P
<StevenK> Hah.
* StevenK doesn't even have a REVU account.
<Arbiter> siretart: ping
<Arbiter> brb
<Toadstool> 'morning everybody
<imbrandon> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon
<siretart> Arbiter: pong
<zakame> hi MOTUs! :D
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> yo imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: did you see the bug i attached with your nick earlier?
<imbrandon> what one ?
<imbrandon> the amarok one
<imbrandon> ?
<Hobbsee> yes
<imbrandon> yup got it 
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<imbrandon> will be fixed shortly
<Hobbsee> cool
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/24639  <-- thats actualy a libtag problem and i just fixed it yesterday ( and requested an approved backport ), wanna close that one
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24639 in amarok "mp3s encoded by iTunes that have album art cause amarok to crash" [Medium,Needs info] 
<imbrandon> ( its assigned to you )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah right, nice
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that's cool - i assigned all of them to me that i thought were fixed with the new version, so i could just go close them all in one hit :P
<imbrandon> hehe yea that one is done
<imbrandon> i'm going throught the whole amarok list right now
<imbrandon> some of these are way way old
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> incredibly, yes
<elmargol> hi I search a netinstall iso that i can "burn" to my usbstick
<imbrandon> elmargol: #ubuntu is the place for support but here is what your looking for http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
<elmargol> thx i try it
<rob> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> heya rob
<Prezu> I have a small problem with lintian/linda error. They complain about not compressing /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog
<Prezu> This file shouldn't be compressed, because it's contents are read by "About..." dialog of a program.
<StevenK> Prezu: Then also install a compressed version, or hack the program to open it with gzip
<Prezu> StevenK: Thanks, I try installing both, compressed and uncompressed first.
* imbrandon pokes arround for a main sponsor
<Lathiat> Bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<imbrandon> zul: poke
<imbrandon> zul: http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/temp/amarok.debdiff  thanks
<tuxmaniac> Lathiat> whats the problem with that High critical bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Prezu> Riddell: Could you please review the Kadu packahe again? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2968) I've fixed all the issues (I think). :)
<shawarma> Hmm... it appears I still need a sponsor for http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/asterisk-merge.diff
<shawarma> Come on. You know you want to!
<Riddell> Prezu: compiling..
<bddebian> Heya gang
<shawarma> hi, bddebian.
<Riddell> Prezu: looks good, see comments http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2968
<shawarma> So... I've got that asterisk merge ready to go, if you're up for it? http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/asterisk-merge.diff
<Prezu> Riddell: Thanks a lot. :)
<bddebian> Hello shawarma, Riddell
<bddebian> shawarma: I'll take a look.  Someone else was trying to get it done too :-)
<tseng> why do we have ubuntu changes in asterisk anyway
<Prezu> Riddell: Please see second paragraph here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/08/msg00006.html
<tseng> it looks like clean bugfixes
<Prezu> Riddell: Isn't this the same issue?
<shawarma> bddebian: Really? It's a really easy merge. I can't imagine why anyone would run into trouble.
<shawarma> tseng: IIRC it's to do with /var/run being a tmpfs.
<tseng> I see.
<tseng> but that code is safe for everyone
<tseng> oh well
<shawarma> tseng: Yes, I suppose it is.
<Riddell> Prezu: that could well be it.  problem solved
<Riddell> Prezu: you could ask on #kubuntu-devel for a second reviewer
<Arbiter> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Arbiter
<Prezu> Riddell: Thanks, I'll do that.
<Lathiat> tuxmaniac: i was just showing someone ubugtu
<bddebian> Lathiat !?!
<Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: ping
<Prezu> Has someone noticed, that recovering password on http://revu.tauware.de dosn't work?
<Lathiat> make sujre your putting your email in
<Lathiat> and not something else
<Prezu> Lathiat: I'm putting my email (patryk@prezu.one.pl, so it's http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=patryk@prezu.one.pl) and I get: http://dug.net.pl/~patryk/tmp/revu-pass-recovery.log
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> does seem pbroken indeed
<bddebian> Lathiat: I wanted to ask you about MOTUGames team but it sounds like I'd be better off waiting until the Debian games team thing eh?
<Arbiter> Can someone review these packages, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2955 (ktagebuch) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2953 (knowit) -- http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2952 (kcmpureftpd). Thanks
<Lathiat> bddebian: to be perfectly hoenst with you i havent been very active within ubuntu for a bit and probably wont be for a couple months
<Lathiat> i have something else eating most of my free time atm unfortunately
<bddebian> Lathiat: NP, sorry to bug you
<Lathiat> bddebian: oh you can bug me all you like im just saying, i probably wont be able to help you WRT to ubuntu-games ;p
<Lathiat> er. motugames
<trappist> I had an eterm patch in dapper that doesn't apply cleanly in edgy, and so was dropped.  I have the same bug in edgy so I made a new bug and a new patch.  I assigned to motu-reviewers, is there anything else I can do to get it reviewed and uploaded?
<trappist> bug #57517
<Ubug2> Malone bug 57517 in eterm "Borderless Eterm doesn't grab focus in KDE" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57517
<Hobbsee> !info eterm edgy
<ubotu> eterm: Enlightened Terminal Emulator. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.3-1 (edgy), package size 406 kB, installed size 1092 kB
* Hobbsee wonders about this motu-reviewers group
<trappist> Hobbsee: last time I asked, they said assign to motu-reviewers.  but yeah, me too.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ping?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: want to check that out?  i really need to get this assignmetn done
<Hobbsee> its' due in...8 hours...
<zul> Hobbsee: plenty of time
<Hobbsee> zul: i'm fighting recursion.  and i'd like to sleep sometime.
<Hobbsee> recursion is evil.
<zul> recursion is evil.
<Prezu> Could someone please review the Kadu package in REVU? It need one more advocate. It's really popular instant messenger in Poland and many Debian and Ubuntu users use my external repository (on upstream's website - http://kadu.net).
<bddebian> Prezu: I'm taking a look
<Prezu> bddebian: Thanks. :)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> hi bddebian :) i have to leave again for some minutes now... brb ;)
<ryanakca> could a motu upload/review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2957 please?
<bddebian> ryanakca: NO ;-P
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> bddebian: how many times have you looked at it?
<ryanakca> too many
<ryanakca> ooh... bbc radio has a new look
<bddebian> ryanakca: As soon as this kadu build finishes I'll throw it up
<ryanakca> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> ryanakca: It's up
<ryanakca> bddebian: yipeee! my first package that gets on the repos
<bddebian> ryanakca: Well it still has to get through NEW processing :-)
<ryanakca> thanks a million for reviewing it more times than you should've had to :)
<ryanakca> oh.. and that takes how long? couple hours?
<bddebian> ryanakca: Well some packages have been sitting in the new queue for months :-(
<bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<Nafallo> Kamion and Keybuk will have that queue as a priority one day a week now, no?
<tseng> one day a week each
<Prezu> May new package be added to Breezy? Or to Edgy only?
<Hobbsee> yes...remind me why i dont put stuff thru new...
<ryanakca> bddebian: odd... the oldest one I see is "language-pack-ceb" from 2006-08-25 17:10:38 EDT
<Hobbsee> to edgy only
<Prezu> Hobbsee: I see, thanks.
<bddebian> ryanakca: Of all 217?
<ryanakca> 18 :)
<ryanakca> Yes, click on the age button and it'll either give you oldest to newest , vv
<bddebian> Oh, hmm, I guess I am wrong.  Cool
<ryanakca> lol, yipee
<trappist> I had an eterm patch in dapper that doesn't apply cleanly in edgy, and so was dropped.  I have the same bug in edgy so I made a new bug and a new patch.  I assigned to motu-reviewers, is there anything else I can do to get it reviewed and uploaded?
<trappist> bug #57517
<Ubug2> Malone bug 57517 in eterm "Borderless Eterm doesn't grab focus in KDE" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57517
<bluefoxicy> Anyone have any suggestions on getting a hold of OpenBSD's libc and putting it on Ubuntu
<bddebian> trappist: Looking now
<bddebian> trappist: distro unstable, version -2?? :-)
* bluefoxicy has the source.
<trappist> bddebian: I don't know what to do with the changelog, I just know I have to change it for debuild -S
<trappist> to make a debdiff
<trappist> any input there is welcome :)
<bddebian> :)
<bddebian> I "fixed" it
<trappist> ossum, thanks
<trappist> I guess it shoulda said edgy, but what about the -2?
<bddebian> Should be -1ubuntu1
<trappist> ah, because the previous change was a debian sync
<bddebian> Aye
<trappist> gotcha.
<trappist> while I'm here, is there really such a group as motu-reviewers?  if I upload a fixy patch to a universe package, I assign the bug to them, as somebody once said to do, but I don't often see any activity after that.
<bddebian> yes
<trappist> ok
<bddebian> I really need to start looking at that list.. :-(
<bddebian> I can't keep up with my own subscribed bugs + REVU + merges :-(
<trappist> I can imagine.
<trappist> maybe I could help, but other than reporting, fixing and confirming bugs, I'm not sure what's the next step to becoming a MOTU
<bddebian> trappist: Are you already an Ubuntu Memeber?
<Prezu> bddebian: What are the lintian's/linda's complains about unstripped binaries in Kadu's debs? (I haven't got them)
<trappist> if that means ubuntero, yes apparently.  otherwise, no, the ubuntu-doc guys were gonna cheer me on at the next meeting, but if there was a next meeting I missed it.
<bddebian> Prezu: You ran linda against kadu_0.5.0~svn20060818-0ubuntu1_i386.deb ?
<Prezu> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe it's another dapper linda/lintian issue
<bddebian> Prezu: Are you running linda/lintian on Edgy?
<trappist> bddebian: is ubuntu membership a prerequisite?  if so, what's the next step in that direction
<Prezu> bddebian: In Breezy. I'm switching to Edgy, one sec.
<bddebian> trappist: You need to add your name to the list and go to and Ubuntu Community Council Meeting
<trappist> bddebian: what list?
<bddebian> Oh and yes, Membership is a pre-requisite for MOTUship
<trappist> gotcha.
<bddebian> I'm trying to find the link for it..
<trappist> can't seem to find an ubuntu team on launchpad
<bddebian> trappist: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<Prezu> bddebian: I've checked in edgy (on debs built in edgy's chroot). Lintian only complains about the version number.
<bddebian> Hmm, OK
<trappist> bddebian: thanks.  looks like the next cc meeting is on the 5th.  should I try to bring cheerleaders?
<bddebian> trappist: Always :-)  And have a list of your contributions, etc :-)
<trappist> right.
<bddebian> Prezu: OK, I will advocate then, thanks
<Prezu> bddebian: Thanks. :)
<bddebian> Oh, dummy, I had DEB_BUILD_OPTION="debug nostrip noopt" still on.. No wonder.. :-(
<bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> morning bddebian
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: you around?
<welshbyte> hey guys
<bddebian> welshbyte!!
<welshbyte> bddebian!!
<bddebian> welshbyte: Fix maxima for me yet? ;-P
<welshbyte> bddebian: 'fraid not, i think my C++ dev skills are lacking somewhat
<bddebian> welshbyte: :)
<welshbyte> i might stick to bug triage til i get back, my parents place isn't a wonderful working environment ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning bddebian :-)
<Mez> noone says hi to me anymore
<bddebian> Hi Mez!!! :-)
* Mez joins a channel where he's sure to get flooded with hellos
<bddebian> Sorry, I didn't even see you "come in" :-)
<Mez> bddebian, it doesnt count, you were "prompted" :P
<gnomefreak> hi Mez
* gnomefreak says hi when others are prompted ;)
<welshbyte> hi Mez!
<bddebian> hehe
<welshbyte> bah the lag on this connection is terrible :)
* Mez groans and shakes head
<ryanakca> Mez! Your back!
<Mez> ryanakca????? who you be?
<gnomefreak> is it known that dapper is having a bunch of depends issues?
<ryanakca> Mez: I be ryanakca
<ryanakca> Mez: I really be Ryan Kavanagh and be co-founder of the classroom project...
<Mez> ah :D
<Mez> lol :D
<Mez> then maybe we should have a chat in -nun
* bddebian bes nobody
<gnomefreak> bddebian: thats not true you be the guy that tried to get my dinner last night ;)
<bddebian> gnomefreak: Bah, I couldn't make it in time ;-P
<gnomefreak> :)
<welshbyte> how should we reply to bugs like bug 57905 where they're requesting universe packages to be updated to the latest version even though they haven't been updated in debian yet?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57905 in burgerspace "BurgerSpace has been updated." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57905
<gardengnome> hey guys. i hope i'm not asking a FAQ here, but... who maintains the *multi*verse repository?
<Nafallo> MOTUs
<gardengnome> oh. cool. i thought you guys were only responsible for universe. thanks a lot :)
<bddebian> welshbyte: Package it! ;-P
<welshbyte> bddebian: maybe when i get back :P out of curiosity, does that duplicate work when it comes to being updated in debian or does debian use ubuntu's new package?
<bddebian> welshbyte: Depends on the Debian maintainer.  Sometimes they will take our work, sometimes they will do their own.  If the Debian maintainer seems pretty active, I would honestly let them do it and we can sync/merge after.
<bddebian> Heya carthik
<carthik> hi bddebian
<carthik> slow sunday?
<bddebian> I'm slow every day :-)
<carthik> I meant to ask if the Sunday was slow :) Can't believe the weekend's almost over
<trappist> bddebian: how long, on average, between 'fix released' and hitting a repo?
<trappist> s/repo/mirror/
<bddebian> trappist: Fix released or Fix Committed?
<Nafallo> trappist: totally depends on the mirror :-)
<trappist> bddebian: I think it was you who uploaded a new eterm package and asked me to keep an eye on it.
<trappist> ah.
<bddebian> trappist: Aye.  You can check launchpad to see if it builds successfully.
<bddebian> Then it really depends on the archive/mirror on how long it takes
<kagou> hi
<trappist> bddebian: nevery occurred to me to check launchpad for that, thanks
<trappist> *never
<Burgundavia> quinn storm is quinn of compiz.net?
<bddebian> Burgundavia: Aye, afaik
<Burgundavia> ok, just wondering
<Riddell> Burgundavia: still doing UWN?
<Burgundavia> Riddell: almost done. The wiki went out last night so I couldn] 
<Burgundavia> 't release then
<Riddell> nasty
<Riddell> top stuff Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> thanks for writing all that Kubuntu stuff
* Mez hugs Burgundavia
<Mez> Burgundavia, I'll still never recover from overhearing things through the hotel walls :D
<Riddell> Mez: like what?
<sladen> Mez: what did you hear?
<Mez> Riddell: sladen, you dont want to know :P but I was in the room next to him... and it was kinda disturbing
<sladen> Mez: "him" ?
<Mez> Burgundavia = Corey  right ?
<Riddell> es
<Riddell> yes
<Mez> yep - sladen: him
<Mez> him = Burgundavia
<gnomefreak> is it core devel or motu that does ff plugins?
<gnomefreak> totem-ff plugins
<sladen> w
<phanter> quick question from somebody who wants to help develloping but does not know where to start. I would like to work/help on a python application. Do you have a suggestion for which application I could join?
<LaserJock> wow, that would really depend on what you are interested in
<hub> gnomefreak: I think the totem firefox plugin is in Universe
<hub> at least in Dapper
<Riddell> phanter: kubuntu's power manager and hwdb clients both have a todo list
<phanter> is there a way to find out which apps are written in python (i could not find it :()
<hub> phanter: apt-cache redpends python
<hub> phanter: apt-cache rdepends python
<hub> that should give a good list
<phanter> hub: ? sorry ?
<hub> that will list anythin depending on Python
<phanter> oke, never saw that apt cmd (using debian and ubuntu for a long time already )
<phanter> anyway, thank guys (m/f) for putting me on the right track !
<hub> Riddell: btw what is the rationale behind using Python
<Riddell> hub: for what?
<hub> in Ubuntu
<Riddell> hub: in general it's just lovely to develop in
<hub> like installer, etc
<hub> because in general it just far more heavier in term of resources
<Riddell> plus Mark loves it, and we all just blindly follow him
<LaserJock> heh
<Riddell> it has some issues, but it's the nicest programming environement I've found (having not looked at Ruby)
<LaserJock> I really like it because it's the only real programming language I've learned
<LaserJock> and I can do things quickly and easily
<LaserJock> and it can be quite fast
<hub> so it just a matter of "hype"
<LaserJock> sure, but I think the hype is there for a reason ;-)
<hub> LaserJock: not necessarily
<hub> even more when you have *sane* APIs like in KDE
<ryanakca> wiki is broken :( "A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred."  who do I sent the functions -> errors to?
<hub> for C++
<Riddell> hub: I really don't want to go back to C++ having used python
<hub> Riddell: maybe I should lend you my machines
<LaserJock> I mean, surely it depends on what you are doing
<LaserJock> but I can't think of anything that I do that I would rather use anything but Python
<LaserJock> except maybe some shell scripting
<Riddell> hub: the power manager is a valid concern certinaly since it always gets started, and I'll probably rewrite that in c++ when qt 4.2 is out
<hub> it is like the deskbar applet in Gnome
<hub> it use a hell of 50MB
<Riddell> I don't know that
<hub> because it is Python
<LaserJock> k, fine. I doubt it's soley because it's Python though
<gnomefreak> ty hub
<hub> LaserJock: it is
<gnomefreak> before you hear it in a bunch of bugs neither totem-xine-ffplugin nor gstreamer have been updated for edgy
<LaserJock> hub: what do you think it would be written in C?
<hub> s/would/should/
<hub> more in C++ than C
<hub> but Gnomers hate C++
<hub> that is a fact
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-20
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<retour> Hi all! I have a Compaq Proliant 2500 with dual PentiumPro + UltraWide SCSI RAID adapter and 4 SCSI drives (Raid0). Ubuntu 7.04 desktop fails to install with kernel panic. I expect problems with detection of memory amount (280MB). Do I have a better chance with Ubuntu server edition or they are generally same distros with differently preconfigured packages?
<tgm4883_laptop> retour, perhaps this is better in #ubuntu?
<retour> tgm: I did but no reply so far? This question is not proper here? What Masters of Univers community is all about? Not supergeeks?
<tgm4883_laptop> retour, its for the universe repo
<tgm4883_laptop> packaging and such
<tgm4883_laptop> retour, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<retour> thank you! sorry for bothering wrong channel
<gouki> Supergeeks?!
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> it's dholbach!  everybody behave!
<LaserJock> dholbach!
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach :)
<man-di> grrrr
* man-di needs a live or repair cd with at least kernel 2.6.22
<StevenK> man-di: Tribe 4?
<jmg> ^
* LaserJock hugs dholbach 
<man-di> StevenK: needs to long to download
<man-di> I want to boot my main machine
<man-di> problem is that my kernel is on / inside LVM which needs lilo
<man-di> and lilo broke somehow
<jmg> kernel should be on boot outside lvm
<StevenK> Agreed
<jmg> it can be on a raid1 but not an lvm
<man-di> jmg: yes, I was to lame to think of that on install, I wanted to fix this today
<jmg> man-di: ha ha </nelson>
<man-di> it bootet from lvm with lilo okay yesterday
<man-di> just grub1 doesnt support kernel on lvm
<jmg> quick, someone set up man-di an internet listening tftp server, so he can netboot
<man-di> jmg: already tried as a i have netboot here
<jmg> man-di: how did it fail?
<man-di> but this damn machine rejects to boot with this either
<jmg> doh
* jmg hands man-di a paddle
<man-di> I think its mainly due to the network driver not being in the official kernel yet
* man-di likes e1000, grrrr
<jmg> man-di: ouch
<jmg> man-di: sounds like you've got a real lemony snicket
<man-di> yeh
<man-di> was fun to install Linux on this machine
<jmg> man-di: rebuild kernel?
<jmg> man-di: what machine is it?
<man-di> I had to put another network card into it for installation
<man-di> its Core2Quad with marvell chipset
<man-di> was really fun that neither chipset nor ethernet driver are in official kernel yet, only in git of sub-projects
<jmg> man-di: so check out the git tree and build it
<man-di> gaaa
<man-di> I just want it to work
<jmg> heh
<man-di> jmg: so I need to use a slow machine to build a new kernel to be able to boot that fast machine
<man-di> if I want it really slow I could try to build the kernel on the NSLU2...
<jmg> man-di: now you're getting somewhere
<lucas> Hobbsee: (re: kde on http://people.debian.org/~lucas/ubuntu-versions/)
<lucas> how do I determine which packages to list on that page?
<Hobbsee> lucas: section: kde, i thought
<lucas> would that pick them all?
<Hobbsee> i didnt think so - it wouldnt do the section: gnome, section: utils, etc...
<lucas> no I mean: wouldn't it miss interesting packages?
<Hobbsee> well, ideallyyou'd do one for every section, i guess
<lucas> I mean: interesting packages for you
<Hobbsee> oh right.
<Hobbsee> lucas: if i'm interested in a particualr package, i normally subscribe thru LP, check the upstream rss feed, etc.
<Hobbsee> lucas: i'm thinking for thsoe of us interested in sections
<lucas> for example k3b is KDE and Section: otherfs
<lucas> otherosfs
<Hobbsee> oh, interesting.
<Hobbsee> hmmm, then i dont know
<\sh_away> lucas: fix it
<lucas> it was just an example, there are probably other packages in the same case
<lucas> I could use apt-rdepends to find all the interesting packages, but not as long as it's on gluck.d.o
<superm1> Hobbsee, what would be the best way to address a question to the motu-uvf team, since there doesn't appear to be a mailing list?  Should i just post to the normal motu mailing list?
<Hobbsee> superm1: yeah
<superm1> ok
<Hobbsee> superm1: of course, you could CC all the members of the team,b ut that doesnt do well for privacy
<Hobbsee> er, for public-nature of mail
<superm1> that's what i assumed
<superm1> hence i wanted to double check what you thought would be better
<Hobbsee> superm1: depends on the tone of the mail, i expect.
<Hobbsee> superm1: and what wider things are in MOTU
<superm1> Hobbsee, I'll fire it off later on and you'll see i guess :)  Bed time for me now. nn
<StevenK> man-di: So, what's happening with sear? :-)
<Hobbsee> night!
<man-di> StevenK: current I package sear CVS
<man-di> but it needs libwfut (which is not in Debian yet)
<man-di> sear cvs is the only version supporting guichan 0.6.1
<man-di> I'm talking on sponsoring with the libwfut maintainer
<StevenK> man-di: Will libwfut also build in Ubuntu?
<man-di> yes
<man-di> its a pretty simple lib
<man-di> no strange dependecies
<man-di> I just need to teach its maintainer not to use automake when he dont needs to
<elmargol> how do I sign my package source?
<man-di> elmargol: with debsign
<elmargol> man-di: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -sa? and then debsign?
<Hobbsee> you can specify with -k<keyid> and it will let you sign it too
<elmargol> Hobbsee: How can I disable the build process? I just need the signed source
<TheMuso> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S
<Hobbsee> use -S
<elmargol> thx
<Hobbsee> siretart: what's the new address for http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM ?
<Hobbsee> (or isnt there one yet?)
<Hobbsee> Since we cannot assume, that tiber was in fact not compromised, all the
<Hobbsee> previously uploaded packages were not imported into the new instance. Also
<Hobbsee> the database started completely empty.
<Hobbsee> \o/
<Hobbsee> excellent!
<Hobbsee> well, that makes reviewing easier for a start
<ajmitch> yep! :)
* ajmitch sees by his mail that dholbach is already back attacking his inbox :)
<Hobbsee> hehe, yeah
<dholbach> ajmitch: ~30000 mails when I got back
<Hobbsee> dholbach: that's impressive.  a lot of that would be -bugs?
<dholbach> yeah
<ajmitch> select all, delete
<Hobbsee> exactly
<TheMuso> o/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> Well, at least my workflow will be changing for good soon...
<TheMuso> No more eratic kvm+crappy screen reader output.
<elmargol> I have a question about a init.d file. On debian they use {} around variables. Why doesn't this work on ubuntu feisty fawn?
<Hobbsee> elmargol: bash vs dash
<elmargol> Hobbsee: Do we use dash or bash on feisty?
<Hobbsee> elmargol:
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ ls -lh /bin/sh
<Hobbsee> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2007-06-22 04:11 /bin/sh -> dash
<elmargol> Hobbsee: how do I fix this? use /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh?
<Hobbsee> no, you remove the bashism, so it works on all POSIX-compliant shells.
<elmargol> is there a way to see non working lines?
<Hobbsee> dash -n script
<elmargol> big thx
<Hobbsee> foo{bar1, bar2}'s are bashisms, definetly
<Hobbsee> use foobar1, foobar2 instead
<Hobbsee> etc
<revilodraw> does anyone know how i can make my laptop audio buttons work in kde, because they work in gnome but not kde
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: which model laptop, and which ones?
<revilodraw> Hobbsee: its a dell inspiron 6400 and i would like to be able to get the volume up/down and mute buttons to work
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: ahhh.  and they dont work in amarok?
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: set the global shortcuts in amarok.  they do work, except there's something in amarok stopping them.  they're set correctly in kmilo
<revilodraw> Hobbsee: they used to work in amarok, but i dont use amarok because it performs terribly in both environments (it used to work beautifully though, and i have tried reinstalling)
<revilodraw> hobbsee: its not just amarok, they dont work  at all in the kde environemnt
<Hobbsee> no, but htey usually work once you set them in amarok.
<Hobbsee> regardless of whether you use amarok again
<Hobbsee> at least, that's what i've found.
<revilodraw> hobbsee: ok thats weird, it shouldnt be like that; kde shouldnt rely on amarok at all...but thanks a lot for the info
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: i don thitnk it does - i think amarok ends up screwing it up
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: like i say, those are correctly coded into kmilo
<revilodraw> hobbsee: wow u are right changing them in amarok helped thank you!! but what is kmilo?
<Hobbsee> it's the kde daemon thing for keyboard shortcuts
<revilodraw> hobbsee: ooh ok how can i access it by itself?
<Hobbsee> revilodraw: i suspect /usr/share/hotkey-setup/dell.hk
<revilodraw> Hobbsee: ok thanks! actually the buttons arent turning my speaker volume up/down they r turning the volume bar up and down in amarok
<Hobbsee> and if you close amarok?
<Hobbsee> that's weird though.  it "just works" here
<revilodraw> ill try
<revilodraw> hmm yeh when amarok is closed the buttons dont respond to being pushed... ill try configuring the keyboard shortcuts in kde
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<norsetto> hiya all
<dholbach> hey norsetto
<norsetto> daniel \o/
<dholbacj> norsetto: you've been quite busy, when I was not around
<norsetto> whats up mate? safe and well I hope !? wading through those 2546748 emails I guess ....
<dholbach> exactly :)
<norsetto> dholbach: hey, I'm only responsible for 10% of that .....
<dholbach> hehehe :)
<dholbach> norsetto: at some stage, highvoltage, you and I should discuss how we can speed up the mentoring
<dholbach> norsetto: we should make it absolutely clear that our mentoring is just supposed to help with the initial steps and not guiding contributors up until they become MOTUs
<dholbach> helping with getting the first upload done via the normal review process should be the number one task for mentors
<dholbach> after that people should be able to cope with the regular processes which work quite well now
<dholbach> but maybe we should take some more time to discuss this properly
<dholbach> also having some kind of ongoing QA of our documentation would be something we should make easier
<dholbach> the faster the process, the more contributors we can take on
<norsetto> dholbach: yes, I think we should discuss this properly
<dholbach> do you think my ideas roughly make sense?
<norsetto> dholbach: not sure actually; I mean, do we need mentors to tell where to finds bugs and how do we upload to REVU?
<dholbach> I just think that the sponsoring teams should take care of reviews and helping out with that
<norsetto> dholbach: definetively
<TheMuso> I sometimes feel that there are only a few MOTUs who help process the Ubuntu universe Sponsors queue in Launchpad.
<dholbach> mentors should probably be more on the "hand holding" side regarding processes, documentation links, who to talk to, where to look for answers and so on
<dholbach> TheMuso: I'll put more efforts into that again once I'm through my mail backlog
<norsetto> dholbach: seems a bit diminutive to me (but then, I look at it from the other side of the fence)
<dholbach> and make sure that some canonical people take care of them as well
<TheMuso> dholbach: Not asking you specifically to have a look, but it seems that not many active MOTUs help with sponsoring... Or thats how it seems to me anyway.
<norsetto> TheMuso: Hi Luke, any feedback on that email of mine?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i suspect that's accurate
<TheMuso> norsetto: not yet.
<dholbach> norsetto: what I see at the moment is that we have lots of people sitting on the mentoring slots and they don't make use of the 'official processes' we have
<dholbach> norsetto: like 1) using sponsoring bugs, 2) asking the motu mentors list for help, 3) asking for more, better, fixed documentation and so on
<norsetto> dholbach: yes thats correct
<dholbach> norsetto: I think that motu mentors is a valuable addition, but they shouldn't try to do everything
* Hobbsee stays away from this mentoring discussion
* norsetto tries to drag hobbsee back
<norsetto> dholbach: please tell her to stop biting :-)
<dholbach> norsetto: I tried that for ages now
<Hobbsee> norsetto: me?  bite?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you know better than that.  i dont bite, i poke people in the ribs.
* TheMuso can attest to that.
<norsetto> dholbach: I have mixed feeling about this now; I have the impression that the program is actually making us loose contributors instead of gaining them
<highvoltage> dholbach: indeed. it wasn't clear to me in the beginning either, I can see how people can think that mentoring is for more than the initial steps
<highvoltage> (sorry for lag, at work atm)
<norsetto> highvoltage: hi mate!
<Hobbsee> i get the feeling that hopefulls feel that they hvae to have a mentor to get anywhere
<Hobbsee> and hwile that helps...
<dholbach> highvoltage, norsetto - maybe we should discuss this on ubuntu-motu-mentors@
<dholbach> highvoltage, norsetto: I'll try to write that up properly
<highvoltage> dholbach: that would be convenient
<Hobbsee> oh meh, that would require me subscribing to the thing, to read it
<norsetto> dholbach: I have the impression that hobbsee is volunteering as a mentor (mentrice?), should I add a slot for her?
* Hobbsee snorts
<Hobbsee> dream on
<Hobbsee> i dont have the patience for it, havent you seen me in here enough to know?
* TheMuso pokes Hobbsee in the ribs. You know you want to.
<norsetto> hobbsee: I have a contributor ready for you ;-)
* Hobbsee pokes TheMuso in the ribs in return.  I know i *dont* want to, yes.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: oh, who?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: if you say kmos, i'm going to kill you...
<Hobbsee> very, very painfully
<norsetto> :-X
<zul> yeah Hobbsee is evil
<Hobbsee> zul: do you sponsor people?
<zul> *snicker* i sponsored you ;)
* Hobbsee thinks on that
<Hobbsee> zul: er, make that mentoring.
<zul> you are still evil though
<zul> again *snicker*
* Hobbsee pokes zul sharply in the ribs too
<zul> i dont hvae the patience
<Hobbsee> zul: you just wait until i meet you at UDS
<zul> if i go ;)
<Hobbsee> well, whichever one you go to
<Hobbsee> zul: you cant use that reason, because i've already used it.
<zul> probably at gutsy+2 when I can get time off of work
<Hobbsee> that'd be cool
<zul> Hobbsee: er...I dont have the stamina?
<Hobbsee> zul: tryand get that one past dholbach
<zul> heh
<mok0> By mistake I dput a _i386.changes file to REVU. Can someone here nuke it please?
<mok0> Its called btk-core-0.8.1
* Hobbsee wonders who has shell acounts there
* TheMuso knows he has an account on sparky, but doubts he can do anything revu related.
* mok0 thinks revu runs on sparky
<TheMuso> It does.
<TheMuso> at the moment.
<Kmos> [11:24]  <Hobbsee> norsetto: if you say kmos, i'm going to kill you...
<Kmos> LOL
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah, i have a shell there, but am not in hte revu group
<Hobbsee> Kmos: :)
<mok0> Thanks for looking. I'll ask again later.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Some of us regulars around here should be added to the group, so we can help admin.
<TheMuso> I was actually going to ask for revu admin rights until it went down.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true, but siretart's rethinking security, etc
<TheMuso> riht
<TheMuso> right
<mok0> Uploaders should be able to nuke their own uploads.
<Hobbsee> then again, any MOTU should be able to have permission, theoretically speaking
<Hobbsee> mok0: requires a shell to do the removing.
<Kmos> mok0: maybe in the next version of revu website.
<Hobbsee> if anyone ever codes it
<Kmos> yeah
<mok0> Hobbsee: I am thinking of revising revu so it could be done without shell acess
<Kmos> that will be a easy one =)
<Hobbsee> that'd be nice
<mok0> the authentication is in place
<mok0> alternatively, they should give support for dget
<Hobbsee> it had support for dget
<mok0> Hobbsee: and... ?
<Hobbsee> so i'm not sure why you'd be trying to add it :)
<mok0> Hobbsee: Why was it removed?
<Hobbsee> i dont think it was.  i'm fairly sure that it still exists
<Hobbsee> although i've not tried on the interim server
<mok0> I'll try it
* zul goes be a cow
<norsetto> anyone know what is the status for REVU passwords? Can we use the old one? Do we have to require a new one?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: recover it
<Hobbsee> norsetto: i think that was said in the revu mail from siretart
<norsetto> Hobbsee: tried but doesn't work :-(
<Hobbsee> norsetto: it got comprimised, so all the packages on there got ditched, and all the passwords got changed
<geser> Hobbsee: recover works only for MOTUs, contributors need a new upload
<Hobbsee> norsetto: it may not all be working yet.
<Hobbsee> geser: ahhhh....
<Hobbsee> thanks
<geser> siretart imported only the ubuntu-dev group
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yeah, I get None as a result (which I even tried, its not a good password :-))
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> geser: ahhh, right, yes
<Hobbsee> this is what happens when i only skim ~40 emails in one hit
<siretart> oh, yummy hilights
<Hobbsee> siretart: indeed!
<siretart> I read help offers in the backlog?
<norsetto> geser: thx
<siretart> we (sistpoty and me) could really need help with revu's new home
<siretart> btw, since sparky is part of the ubuntuwire network, all ubuntu-dev people can login on tiber and look how it works
<Hobbsee> siretart: we dont have permission, not being in the revu team to delete, though
<siretart> delete?
<Hobbsee> siretart: or move, etc.
<Hobbsee> siretart: things from incomming or whatever
<siretart> ah, the incomine queue, true
<siretart> the queue seems to be 777 now, no need for the group AFAISI
* Hobbsee just got a permission denied, when attempting to remove from /srv/...
<siretart> Hobbsee: ok, I'll add you to the revu group
<siretart> sistpoty  is standing next to me
<Hobbsee> cool
<siretart> Adding user `hobbsee' to group `revu' ...
<siretart> Done.
* Hobbsee waves to sistpoty
<siretart> he waves back
<Hobbsee> there we go, removed.
<Hobbsee> thanks
* Hobbsee --> dinner
* norsetto publishes a public disclaimer: he is not, has never been and will never be Cesare Franco
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> that reminds me of vuntz
<Hobbsee> (read his blog posts about guadec)
<mok0> I could now upload, thanks y'all!
<mok0> (btw, in the discussion above, I said "dget", I meant "dcut". Silly me)
<geser> Hobbsee: have you seen bug #133590? doesn't it need an UVFe?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133590 in swfdec-mozilla "Please sync swfdec-mozilla (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133590
<siretart> Hobbsee: ok good news. We have a new home for revu (and revu2 development) now. the host will be named 'spooky.informatik.uni-erlangen.de'. sistpoty and me will be local admins, hosting is at university of erlangen
<siretart> the machine needs to be setup. sistpoty and me will try to do that on friday afternoon
<Hobbsee> siretart: neat!  :)
<Hobbsee> slomo: ping
<Hobbsee> geser: i hadnt, no
<toutouff> waw, nice one :)
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK
<zul> hey ScottK
<geser> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hello TheMuso, Hobbsee, zul, and geser
<TheMuso> Hey persia. Long time no see.
<persia> TheMuso: Hey.
<geser> Hi persia
<persia> hi geser.  Thanks for watching for gaphas.
<geser> persia: what problems did you have with the gaphas package?
<geser> I changed debian/pyversions to 2.5 to get it build with python2.5
<persia> geser: pyversions << 2.,4.  ezinstall builds nose egg info on clean:, etc.
<persia> geser: You could build a package after removing pyversions?  For me, debian/clean wasn't.
<geser> importing the gaphas module build for python2.5 worked
<xxxxx1> mornin' people
<xxxxx1> :)
<geser> persia: Depends: python (>= 2.5), python (<< 2.6), python-support (>= 0.2), python-decorator, python-gtk2
<geser> after changing debian/pyversions to 2.5
<persia> geser: Hmm...  I wonder why I get nose-0.10.0b1-py2.5.egg/
<geser> had you have python-setuptools installed?
<persia> geser: Yes.
<geser> without it fetched some eggs from the internet
<persia> geser: I get eggs from the internet even with python-setuptools installed.  I suspect it's because I didn't have python-nose installed on the host (only in the build chroot).
<persia> geser: More generally, if I build everything in gaphas & gaphor (using cheeseshop eggs), I run into problems with zope.  I think I can get it working with gaphor 0.10.4, but I'm not sure if I want gaphas 0.1.4, 0.2.0, or 0.3.x yet.
<geser> looking on it again I guess I build the source package with dpkg-source -b as I don't have a changes file (didn't generate it yet)
<ScottK> geser: The other thing is that if you have to make a change (e.g. python 2.4 -> 2.5) then you don't need to request a sync.  Just modify the package and upload it like you would for a merge.
<persia> geser: Hmm.  Do you have python-nose installed locally?
<persia> ScottK: sync request is already gone :)
<geser> ScottK: I know, persia mentioned the needed change in my sync request
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I was under the impression you knew about it before you requested.  Nevermind.
<geser> persia: not in my dev chroot
<persia> ScottK: What's your opinion of ezinstall use in debian/rules?
<ScottK> Bad.
<persia> geser: Interesting.  I get "unrepresentable changes to source" when trying `debuild -S -sa`.  Perhaps it makes binaries, but not source.
<ScottK> That's the one that grabs modules and downloads the from the net, right?
<persia> ScottK: That's the feeling I had.  Thanks for the confirmation.
<persia> ScottK: Yep.
<geser> persia: I had those at first too, therefore I redid my change and build the source package with dpkg-source -b
<ScottK> It is a pretty sigificant breach of the pakcaging system.
<persia> ScottK: You'll find the upstream solution for http://gaphor.devjavu.com/projects/gaphor/ticket/36 amusing then :)
<persia> geser: Ah.  That makes sense.  I'm not happy about dpkg-source -b, as it makes life hard for people making patches.  I'm hoping to find a solution that doesn't involve randomly installing things from the internet (although I only have 10 days left :))
<ScottK> As an upstream, that's a reasonable response.  Debian packaging problems aren't their problem.
<ScottK> persia: There are new package freeze exceptions too.
<persia> ScottK: I guess.  I still prefer exception handling for missing libraries, etc.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> For gaphas, I'd be supportive of an exception if needed.
<persia> ScottK: I don't think I can make a convincing argument for a freeze exception for gaphor: it's been broken since Breezy/
<ScottK> Actually, I think that makes it easier.
<ScottK> No regression risk which is the big thing to avoid.
<ScottK> Lots of people complain about it too.
<persia> ScottK: Hmmm..  Interesting viewpoint.  I'd think rather that it wasn't a feature that was sufficiently important for such a late change.
<ScottK> What $SOMONE should do is write a debianized replacement for ezinstall that works within the packaging system.
<geser> persia: I installed now also python-nose and run dpkg-buildpackage -S and the debdiff shows no extra eggs
<ScottK> $SOMONE/SOMEONE
<ScottK> persia: I view the freeze process as a risk management excercise.  In the case of gaphor, there is no downside risk.
<persia> geser: Hmm..   I don't think there is Pre-Build-Depends.  I still don't think that the package is right, but I wouldn't object to an upload with the base changes, as long as it results in a working gaphor (which really needs zope investigation).
<geser> persia: are we talking now about gaphor or gaphas?
<persia> ScottK: That makes quite a bit of sense.  I'm certainly reevaluating.
<persia> geser: They are related.  I don't see any point to adding gaphas unless it makes gaphor work.  If there's another client, either 0.2.0 or 0.3.x would be a reasonable candidate.
<geser> persia: ok, but currently gaphor has an unmet dep on python-gaphas
<persia> geser: Right.  gaphor hasn't worked since breezy, for a variety of reasons.  In my tests with gaphas 0.1.4 and gaphas 0.2.0, I was not able to get gaphor working.  Unless there is another program that depends on python-gaphas, it doesn't really matter if it's an unmetdep or a segfault, as I see it.
<xxxxx1> hey persia, ScottK, TheMuso
<persia> On the other hand, if I still don't have something working in another week, I'll probably upload 0.2.0, just to get the package in, with additional efforts to get it clean afterwards.
<miles> hello all
<persia> xxxxx1: Hey.
<ScottK> Hello xxxxx1.
<geser> persia: does gaphor in Debian the same problems?
<persia> geser: Yep.  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=423515 is the root.  I've been exchanging email with Cdric, but with UVF, and UNF approaching, I uploaded gaphor so as not to need a UVF exception.
<ubotu> Debian bug 423515 in gaphor "gaphor segfaults after upgrading python-diacanvas2" [Normal,Open] 
<persia> That's the same as bug 30344
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 30344 in gaphor "Gaphor doesn't start" [High,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/30344
<geser> persia: I'd prefer to have python-gaphas in the archive. That way one could fix gaphor (if a fix gets found) after the release through -updates (or -backports)
<persia> geser: OK.  Feel free to upload if you think it's important.  My main reason for wanting another week is UVF: I don't know if I want to grab gaphas 0.3.x, but most of the necessary changes can probably be done in a patch.
<Hobbsee> persia: you should be able to still get a UVF for most thigns, at this point
<zul> grrr...must kill
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, but given my current time committments, it's easier to do things in a way that doesn't require approval :)
<geser> persia: I can wait with uploading gaphas till short before NPFU if that helps you
<Hobbsee> persia: :)
<persia> geser: Thanks.  I'm hoping to have a bit of time this week to chase it, but will definitely upload some version of gaphas this coming weekend, whether I find a final solution or not.
<geser> ok
<persia> geser: Do you have any pending changes other than the python 2.5 dependencies?
<persia> geser: Also, why python (<< 2.6)?
<slomo> Hobbsee: pong? re: swfdec-mozilla, i didn't notice that uvf was in effect already... i thought it is tomorrow
<Hobbsee> slomo: that's main freeze for tribe 5
<ScottK> slomo: Are you subscribed to the MOTU mailing list?
<slomo> Hobbsee: i'll care for proper uvf exception stuff later, thanks for noticing ;)
<slomo> bbl
<slomo> ScottK: sure
<Hobbsee> slomo: no problem, and thank geser
<ScottK> OK.  I was just wondering because Hobbsee forwarded the UVF announcement there.  That's all.
<persia> ScottK: About zekr: do you know why the MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME check was trimmed so agressively?
<ScottK2> persia: No.  I know he got some comments from the upstream about the package, but not if that's related.
<ScottK2> Let me see if I can find his e-mail and forward it to you.
<persia> ScottK2: Thanks.  It doesn't seem to break anything, but I generally don't like to sponsor things I don't understand :)
<ScottK2> I can understand that.
<ScottK2> persia: I thought he'd sent me mail that talked about the changes, but I can't find it.
<persia> ScottK2: OK.  I'm otherwise happy, but am not likely to find time to chase him down.  Would you mind chasing him?  I'm happy to build & upload with some confirmation for only the MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME change (unless you get your disks fixed first :))
<ScottK2> If you do decide to upload it, please wait a bit as the original zekr upload "Failed to Upload" to the archive after building successfully.  That's being looked into now, so it might be prudent to wait and see if something was wrong with the package or if Soyuz just burped.
<persia> ScottK2: In that case I'll definitely hold off a bit.  If the weather stays as is, I should have another chance to look at it in ~23 hours.
<ScottK2> I just got confirmation that it's a Soyuz bug.  Hooray?
<Hobbsee> persia: obviously, with the UVF, if it looks sane, then it'll be accepted
<persia> Hobbsee: context?  You've lost me :)
<Hobbsee> persia: [22:44]  <persia> Hobbsee: Yes, but given my current time committments, it's easier to do things in a way that doesn't require approval :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes.  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK2: Which bug?  Do you have a number?
<ScottK2> persia: No.  I gather it tickled a new one.
<ScottK2> Inifinity said to feel free to go ahead and do the new upload.
<ScottK2> It'll either work or not, but he's going to try and figure out what's up with Soyuz.
<persia> ScottK2: OK.  What do you think about MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME?  Just go with it, or wait foe the packager?
<ScottK2> persia: I have not had a chance to look at the source for more than about 30 seconds.
<persia> ScottK2: OK.  I'll just test a bit, and see if I can figure it out then.
<ImNOTcesarefranc> slomo: ping
<geser> persia: the only change I did was changing debian/pyversions from 2.4 to 2.5 and that python (<< 2.6) comes from ${python:Depends}
<persia> geser: OK.  Thanks.  I suspect I'm confusing source dependencies with binary dependencies :)
<geser> pygi: as you seem to work on swfdec has slomo talked to you about syncing swfdec0.5 (bug #133589)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133589 in Ubuntu "Please sync swfdec0.5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133589
<POX_> geser: change debian/pyversions to "2.4-"
<pygi> geser, he didn't, no
<persia> POX_: What does that achieve?
<pygi> geser, we're working on our own packages (me and asac)
<POX_> it will tell pysupport that this module works fine with 2.4 and 2.5
<POX_> (and probably with 2.6)
<pygi> geser, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/swfdec0.4/+bug/133052 --> just waiting for me to do swfdec-mozilla
<POX_> => it will not add python (<< 2.6) dependency
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133052 in swfdec0.4 "[needs review]  swfdec0.5.1 [needs upload] " [Undecided,New] 
<pygi> slomo, poke?
<asac> pygi: ... if its in debian already, why not use theirs?
<persia> POX_: Just to make sure I understand, will that also generate binary packages for each available python version?
<geser> POX_: doesn't it need "support" in debian/rules to build the package for the various python versions?
<POX_> no, I will just tell pysupport to compile it for these versions
<pygi> asac, ergh ... because we need some changes in?
<asac> do we?
<pygi> asac, well, I don't think debian did any of those browsers stuff, update-alternatives, etc, etc
<asac> ah yes ... but then we should do a merge for those changes
<pygi> asac, lemme just see some things
<asac> and hope that debian will adapt those
<pygi> I also want to see if they included the patch I put in my package
<asac> i will open discussion about using flash alternatives in debian anyway
<geser> persia: it will adjust the dependencies to python (>= 2.4), python (<<2.6) and it might work as gaphas doesn't have any python modules
<pygi> asac, they also don't include the patch that I was said by Company is required
<pygi> quite a lot of changes between us and them
<persia> geser: Right.  I'll have to change gaphor to match: it's currently 2.5 only, I think.
<pygi> asac, but you decide, I'm none here after all :)
<asac> pygi: who maintains debian package?
<pygi> asac, ds
<geser> persia: with python-central/python-support you have now only one binary package for all supported python versions.
<persia> geser: Cool!  In that case, life is good.
<persia> POX_: Thanks for the pointer about 2.4-
<pygi> asac, he's in swfdec
<asac> pygi: but i am not atm :)
<pygi> asac, /join #swfdec does the trick
<asac> yeah ;)
<asac> done
<ImNOTcesarefranc> persia: was wondering, any reason not to add desktop-file as a tag in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs?
<ScottK2> It's not terribly MOTU specific.
<persia> ImNOTcesarefranc: Despite my interest, I'm not sure it's high enough priority to be a significant focus.  One of the big arguments against ubuntu-specific .desktop files is translations.
<persia> There's a translate-desktop-file spec out, but it's not very active.  If it's completed, then desktop-files should surely be a goal for the next release.
<POX_> geser: gaphas calls dh_pysupoprt so it will work
<persia> ScottK2: Actually, main has much better .desktop file coverage than universe right now.  A large reason for this is the app-install-data effort.
<ScottK2> I see.
<ImNOTcesarefranc> persia: ok, thats clear, but what I was asking is: since that page is also "To make bugs easier to find for new contributors", would it make sense to add that tag, or we consider it covered by the bitesize one?
<ScottK> OK.  Now that the router is rebooted, maybe DHCP won't go nuts.
<persia> ImNOTcesarefranc: While most desktop-file bugs are also bitesize (except rare cases like the nVidia logo issue), I don't consider bitesize to cover desktop-file.  My main reason for not wanting to put it there is that there are strong opinions both ways regarding whether we should be pushing that change, and I'd rather see new people working on other things, unless they have a .desktop file itch to scratch, in which case it really doesn't matter 
<ImNOTcesarefranc> persia: ok; my reason for asking is that I was also thinking about bugs in the .desktop file itself, not just that the .desktop file is missing
<persia> ImNOTcesarefranc: That's an interesting case, and becoming more prevalent as the missing-desktop-file issue is addressed.  On the other hand, previous efforts to move towards standards-compliance have met with some resistance, although the spec is more mature now.
<miles> come on im tryin to do work
<persia> ImNOTcesarefranc: If you think sufficient bugs exist that are standards-compliance issues, rather than missing-file issues, I don't see any reason to not include it on the page.  I haven't reviewed the desktop-file bugs in a few months.
<persia> ScottK: zekr_0.5.1.dfsg-0ubuntu2 up.
<ImNOTcesarefranc> persia: well, not only the compliance to the freedesktop 1.0 spec, there are bugs (more correctly, wishes) like bug 133600 or bug 127739,  which I think could be good candidates for new contributors; in any case I see your point, its not worth adding this to the wiki page
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133600 in flightgear "There is on icon in xubuntu menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133600
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127739 in nvtv "menu entry for nvtv has no icon" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127739
<ScottK> persia: Cool.  Thanks.
<ScottK> It'll be interesting to see if this one actually gets into the archive.
<persia> ImNOTcesarefranc: I'd suggest both of those deserve both desktop-file and bitesize.  In the (rare) case where desktop-file isn't bitesize, I don't think it's a good target for a new person (e.g. nvidia-glx).
<ImNOTcesarefranc> persia: right
<persia> ScottK: Source NEW is done, right?  We're just waiting on binary NEW?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Soyuz just has to deliver the binary so it can go into the NEW queue.
<persia> ScottK: I don't anticipate any issues then.  It's a bit buggy, the transliterised fonts are painful to look at, etc., but it should be there.
<ScottK> OK.  Just cross your fingers on Soyuz.
<DaBonBon> can someone please look at this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/132603
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132603 in uswsusp "Please update the uswsusp package" [Wishlist,Triaged] 
<DaBonBon> it's almost time
<DaBonBon> i'm sure this small change would pass through the freeze :(
<ScottK> Is there an updated package available and tested?
<DaBonBon> no
<DaBonBon> atleast not by me
<ScottK> Well that would be the first step.  I see that StevenK and bluekuja has uploaded updates to that package in Gutsy.
<StevenK> Don't look at me. Merging uswsusp is a pain.
<ScottK> I understand that bluekuja is on vacation.
<DaBonBon> StevenK: oh i'm sorry didn't know it was so difficult :(
<ScottK> DaBonBon: Then you either need to find someone who will or do it yourself.
<StevenK> It would also require making the Debian patch even more painful, since Debian haven't updated their package.
<mjg59> Is Andrea Veri around?
<Hobbsee> mjg59: on holidays
<Hobbsee> mjg59: (bluekuja)
<mjg59> Thanks
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: have you noticed that we're in UVF?
<mjg59> His last upload of uswsusp was utterly broken
<DaBonBon> ah that explains why bluekuja didn't reply to my mail :)
<Hobbsee> Ademan: er, never mind
* ScottK wonders if bluekuja ought to fix that before the TB re-assesses his MOTU application.
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: yes, why?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: never mind, thought it was a new upstream version
<Adri2000> :)
<ImNOTcesarefranc> any motu willing to check bug 70367 and/or bug 133051 (both in u-u-s queue)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 70367 in imlib "imlib1 does not correctly handle 32-bit visuals" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/70367
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133051 in tpb "Please merge tpb 0.6.4-2.3 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133051
<ImNOTcesarefranc> dholbach: would you mind if I merge gobby?
<dholbach> ImNOTcesarefranc: not at all
<dholbach> ImNOTcesarefranc: please go ahead
<ImNOTcesarefranc> dholbach: ok, thx
<ScottK> Yeahhh!  I just got my first REVU comment mail from the new REVU!
<elkbuntu> the stuff excitement is made of?
<soothsay> Anybody know of a good quick introduction to autotools?
<nixternal> soothsay: /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev
<nixternal> as long as you have autotools installed, you will have those docs...README.debian.gz and the examples directory has a little intro
<ImNOTcesarefranc> soothsay: dunno if this is quick for you, but its what i used: http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_development_tools/libtool_autoconf_automake_book/autobook_toc.html
<soothsay> nixternal, ImNOTcesarefranc: Thanks
<nixternal> no problem
<tristanbob> was avahi running by default in Fiesty?
<mok0> tristanbob: yes but it's not configured
<tristanbob> mok0: just wondering from a security perspective, it is listening on a port?  If not, is that going to change in 7.10?
<keescook> tristanbob: yes, avahi was running in Feisty.
<mok0> Yes it's listening to a port
<tristanbob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultNetworkServices
<tristanbob> Thanks keescook! that is what I was interested in
<keescook> the exceptions to the "no listening ports by default" are dhclient and avahi.
<geser> keescook: hi, can you look at bug #133477 and ack it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133477 in id3lib3.8.3 "[Sync request]  Sync id3lib3.8.3 (3.8.3-7) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133477
<slomo> ImNOTcesarefranc: pong?
<ImNOTcesarefranc> slomo: hey!
<keescook> geser: sure, looks fine.  is this a problem in earlier releases too?
<slomo> pygi: pong?
<ImNOTcesarefranc> slomo: was wondering if you received my email about mentoring?
<geser> keescook: I haven't check yet
<keescook> geser: hm, I think it is, the earlier versions are relatively unchanged.  :P
<slomo> ImNOTcesarefranc: doh, yes... thought i already answered that, one moment please
<geser> keescook: I think it too, as already warty had the same upstream version (only a different revision)
<ImNOTcesarefranc> slomo: got it now, thx!
<pygi> slomo, wrt swfdec sync ...
<keescook> geser: this is less bad than I initially thought; it builds the bad filename in the local directory.
<pygi> slomo, that needs to be discussed with me and asac first :)
<slomo> pygi: ok, thought it wouldn't be a problem as it's a new package anyway... do with it whatever you want then ;)
<pygi> slomo, oki, thank you :)
<asac> pygi: how about synching now ... and then if we need more diverge from there?
<asac> ups
<asac> he is gone
<asac> hmm
<geser> asac: pygi is back
<asac> 19:14 < asac> pygi: how about synching now ... and then if we need more diverge from there?
<asac> pygi: off to sport now
<pygi> asac, ok, ok, I'll poke when you are back
<pygi> asac, also I'll think more about it
<pygi> everybody is all of the sudden lately interested in open-source implementation of flash =)
<peanutb> because it half works
<peanutb> if it half-works people are going to care
<soothsay> Does autotools automatically invoke libfoo-config for libraries?
<soothsay> I've got a program that invokes xmlrpc-c-config in ./configure, but xmlrpc-c-config doesn't seem to be included in libxmlrpc-c3
<soothsay> Is the problem with the way the configure script is generated (i.e. it shouldn't use xmlrpc-c-config) or should xmlrpc-c-config be included in libxmlrpc?
<Amaranth> hrm, never seen this error before
<Amaranth> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
<Supremus> hey
<Supremus> is there any sponsor for main who can look at bug 33586
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 33586 in nmap ".desktop file cleanup for nmapfe" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/33586
<Amaranth> oh, i forgot -S
<Amaranth> *headdesk*
<Lamego> StevenK, alive ?
<geser> Lamego: it's after 4 am in Australia, he'll probably be sleeping now
<Lamego> ah ok :P
<Lamego> tks :)
<zul> is it me or did it get real quiet
<instabin|work> will ubuntu 7.10 have cnr? I asked in #ubuntu+1 but nobody knew
<geser> cnr?
<superm1> geser, click-n-run.  it's something that came from linspire
<instabin|work> Yes
<superm1> i heard it may be in 7.10, but i don't know for sure
<instabin|work> There was talk about adding it before...
<superm1> instabin|work, at Ubuntu Live, i spoke to the gentleman representing the Linspire booth, and he seemed confident that it would make it into 7.10 at that time, but I haven't reaffirmed that with anyone in Ubuntu.
<instabin|work> I was just checking out freespire 2.0 in a virtual machine to see how cnr worked, Since i couldnt find it in 7.10 yet
<pwnguin> is it too late to get a new version of a package in gutsy that was "released" 4 days ago?
<pwnguin> it's already got an updated package in debian unstable
<geser> pwnguin: you need to get an UVF exception from the motu-uvf team (if it's a universe package)
<pwnguin> out of curiousity, uvf stands for?
<geser> upstream version freeze
<pwnguin> i see
<pwnguin> what unfortunate timing
<pwnguin> well, i doubt it's actually fixed any existing bugs
<geser> if you're still interested: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9c768217b322f8567d24d91647eaf0a256a73046
<mok0> I'd like someone to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=19
<Lamego> pwnguin, what is the package ?
<norsetto> RAOF: peek
<pygi> asac, ok, let's do this: 1)sync 2)apply patch from my package 3)do needed modifications 4)do changes on swfdec-mozilla for browser id's 5)upload 6)voila!
<asac> yeah
<pygi> asac, fine, then you/slomo should do the UVF exception process for that thing he requested, and also make sure swfdec-mozilla gets synced (last time it wasnt)
<asac> pygi: i will figure out tomorrow
<pygi> asac, kk
<pygi> thanks
<asac> pygi: can we take swfdec-mozilla unmodified?
<pygi> asac, well, no. We need update-alternatives in there and we need browser id's inside?
<asac> ok
<pygi> asac, basically, we will sync them unmodified, but we'll change them afterwards
<pygi> we currently don't ship ubuntu changes inside /me thinks
<pygi> no patches or stuff
<pygi> and it's NEW package anyway
<pwnguin> Lamego: oregano, a tool for making electrical schematics
<pwnguin> Lamego: it's fairly good, but my roommates can't use it for school like pspice because the interface is slightly junky.
<pwnguin> Lamego: and they refuse to learn regular spice
<Lamego> does it builds on feisty ?
<pwnguin> there is a feisty package
<Lamego> updated to the latest version ?
<pwnguin> and a gutsy package, i dont know if the new version builds
<Lamego> ok
<pwnguin> it builds in debian i hear ;)
<pygi> mr_pouit, ping
<sooth> Does autotools automatically invoke libfoo-config to determine -I and -L compile parameters, or is that user defined?
<mohammad> ScottK: hello it seems that zekr is uploaded to launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/zekr again. but there is no binary available. is it fine?
<ScottK> Yes.  I checked and it is in the NEW queue as it is a new binary package.
<ScottK> New source packages go through NEW and then the new binary goes through NEW too.
<ScottK> Source NEW is generally where problems come up.
<ScottK> It turns out the first upload hanging was a bug with the build system (Soyuz), nothing to do with Zekr.
<ScottK> Did you also see that persia uploaded your revision?
<mohammad> ScottK: you mean zekr 0.5.1.dfsg-0ubuntu2? yes thanks
<ScottK> Yes.  I put it on REVU and then persia (emmett) looked at it and uploaded it.
<mohammad> ScottK: I think you uploaded ttf-sil-scheherazade before zekr, but it seems the source is not available :https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/ttf-sil-scheherazade, is there any problem?
<ScottK> Since the package name changed it has to go through NEW again.  No problem.
<ScottK> Since you made zekr depend on ttf-sil-scheherazade | ttf-scheherazade it'll work out just fine.
<ScottK> Once ttf-sil-scheherazade is out of NEW, well ask for ttf-scheherazade to be removed.
<ScottK> well/we'll
<mohammad> ScottK: I knew that Nicolas Spalinger after I uploaded ttf-scheherazade  began to work on packaging of  ttf-sil-scheherazade for Debian, but it seems his package will not be ready for gutsy, he asked me to apply the changes I made. what wil happen when his package is ready?
<mohammad> ScottK: will the current ttf-sil-scheherazade in ubuntu be replaced by the one he makes for Debian?
<ScottK> When his package is in Debian and the Ubuntu archive is open for Gutsy +1, ask for a sync or a merge from Debian.
<ScottK> Not automatically.
<ScottK> Generally if a package is in Debian we prefer to use it so as not to duplicate effort.
<ScottK> You might ask him just to upload your package to Debian with appropriate Debian distro/version.
<ScottK> That would save him trouble.
<mohammad> Is it possible to upload any translation (like zekr-quran-translations-ru) which is in the Recommends section of zekr after Aug 30 ?
<mohammad> ScottK^
<ScottK> mohammad: I'm really not sure how translations are done in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> They have a different process and a different set of deadlines.
<ScottK> I've got to go pick up one of my daughters from school, so I'll see you later.
<mohammad> ScottK: thank you you help me a lot :) see you later
<zul> hello\
<norsetto> There is nothing about merges here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess. Are merges not concerned by the UVF!?
<DktrKranz> every package is concerned. if you propose a merge which provides a new upstream release, you will need to ask for an UVFe
<norsetto> DktrKranz: thx, and if it is a merge with same upstream tarball? There is no need for an ffe then?
<DktrKranz> if the version is the same, you can proceed the usual way
<norsetto> DktrKranz: dankeschoen ....
<DktrKranz> erm...?? :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: and give my regards to the camel :-)
<mok0> Some time ago, I found the NEW queue on LP, but now I can't find it anymore. Has it moved?
<Pici> mok0: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue perhaps?
<mok0> Yeah! Thx!
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-21
<norsetto> good night all, the bad, the goods and the uglies too
<sooth> Can someone check what files are installed by libxmlrpc-c3/gutsy for me?
<leonel> sooth: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=libxmlrpc-c3&version=gutsy&arch=i386
<sooth> Does that look normal?
<sooth> leonel ^
<mayeco> MOTO guys!
<mayeco> check this plasma applet : http://www.mayeco.org/moodbar_plasma.png
<mayeco> :D
<mayeco> *MOTU
<leonel> sooth:  maybe you can  contact   Barry deFreese <bddebian@comcast.net>
<sooth> leonel: He's debian maintainer of the package?
<sooth> leonel: Anyway, that's a bug right?
<leonel> at least  the last update for ubuntu
<sooth> What is the command to list the installed files of a package?
<TheMuso> dpkg -L
<sooth> TheMuso: Thanks
<mrigns> does anybody have the build-depends for the debian/control for pidgin-2.1.1?
<sooth> mrigns: Is it going to be different than 2.1.0?
<sooth> Are old versions of packages available somewhere?
* RAOF is back from a lightning visit to Hobart.
<RAOF> POX_: ping! Any more comments re: miro package?  I think I'll add a recommends on libxine1-ffmpeg, but anything apart from that?
<StevenK> RAOF: And how was Hobart?
<StevenK> RAOF: Aside from disturbing, it being in Tasmania. :-P
<RAOF> StevenK: Hobart was beautiful as ever.
<RAOF> StevenK: It's really wonderful, I love it.
<RAOF> Also, my Grandmother wasn't nearly as ill as I'd feared.
<StevenK> Well, that is good news.
<RAOF> Yes.
* StevenK kicks Windows and FAT32
* RAOF laughs unsympahtetically.  That system can't even handle files >2Gb
<Nafallo> depends on what version/revision really?
<StevenK> Where does the UVF procedure live?
* StevenK wants to lambast a sync filer.
<Nafallo> CategoryMOTU hopefully :-)
<Nafallo> wow. even more blu lights.
<Nafallo> blue even
<RAOF> Nafallo: No, FAT32 doesn't support files >2Gb.
<jrib> Hi, if anyone would like to comment on
<jrib> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=24, I would appreciate it.  Thanks. (ScottK, you've been very helpful with this package so far.  I think I've addressed the issues in your last comment before revu went down, but would still like your input whenever you get a chance.)
<zakame> good day
<white> jrib: interested in bringing the package back to debian?
<white> !info reverend sid
<ubotu> Package reverend does not exist in sid
<jrib> white: yep, once I get it into ubuntu, I'm going to visit utnubu
<white> jrib: feel free to write an ITP and send it to the -debian-mentors@l.d.o. list
<white> jrib: you can also sync from debian to ubuntu, which might be easier ;)
<jrib> white: thanks, I think the next package, I'll try going that route from the start to compare
<white> jrib: you are welcome
<ScottK> white: At this point it's probably to late to go through Debian for Gutsy as packages would have to be out of Debian NEW to be synced by 30 Aug.
<ScottK> I would encourage people to work on pushing stuff into Debian.
<ScottK> For Feisty I had several new packages in Ubuntu and by the time the Gutsy repos opened I had them all in Debian (or someone else was working on it).
<TheMuso> iii/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<ScottK> I guess someone eventually had to say something.
<soulrider> hello
<ScottK> Hello
<soulrider> i am currently programmin an application, and i would like to know what steps i need to follow to be able to distribute it to ubuntu users
<soulrider> its not quite ready yet though
<ScottK> Do you have any experience with the Debian package management system?
<soulrider> i would also like to know about quality standards etc
<soulrider> ScottK, just a bit, i have compiled and i have amde some deb packages
<soulrider> but this is a python app, you dont really compile it
<soulrider> i also dont really know in which directory it should be installed
<ScottK> Python apps still can/should be packaged.
<RAOF> soulrider: I was talking to jml about writing a page on the wiki about this.
<soulrider> yes, i know
<ScottK> For a Python app, my recommendation is to first make a proper setup.py using distutils.
<soulrider> distutils ?
<ScottK> That's a Python module for making distributable modules and apps.  It's not Debian specific.
<soulrider> oh, i see
<ScottK> Once you have that, I Debian package is pretty easy to make.
<ScottK> I/A
<soulrider> i see
<ScottK> If you want an example of a relatively simple Python application, you can apt-get source pypolicyd-spf.  That's one I did.
<soulrider> and is it quality checked or something?
<RAOF> Before it hits an official repository, yes.
<calc> btw new openoffice with the hang fix applied is in gutsy now
<calc> waiting for build on the various archs
<soulrider> i will, this sia  simple appa ctually, and i havnt found similar applications for some reason...
<ScottK> We check to ensure it's legal to distribute and is installed in such a way as to be unlikely to harm the rest of the system.
<ScottK> Yeahhh Calc.
<ScottK> If it's somewhat buggy, but supported and fixed, that's OK.
<calc> we should remove the -gtk/-gnome dep in kubuntu meta since its not needed anymore
<ScottK> Buggy, but unsupported by upstream will get removed.
<ScottK> calc: Agreed, but probably a topic for #kubuntu-devel.
<soulrider> i hope i can have my program ready by the end of the week
<ScottK> Then you upload it to REVU.
<ScottK> !REVU|soulrider
<ubotu> soulrider: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<calc> hmm yea good idea ;)
<ScottK> Also note that our new package freeze for Gutsy is 30 Aug and so it'll be tight at this point.
<soulrider> thank you ScottK, i also couldnt find that package you told me to install though
<ScottK> What version of Ubuntu are you running?
<soulrider> ScottK, so if it were to appear it wont appear until gutsy +1 ?
<soulrider> 7.10
<ScottK> OK.
<soulrider> 04, sorry
<RAOF> soulrider: Another option is specto: "apt-get source specto" should work in Feisty.
<ScottK> pypolicyd-spf also exists, but whatever.
<ScottK> I've got to get to bed soon anyway.
<RAOF> Eh ;)
<soulrider> ill check those links out, thanks for the help
<ScottK> I'm just saying that if you've got a good example, that's fine too, but I have to get to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<soulrider> it cant find that source either =/ i think i disabled the source repos. ill find it in apckages.ubuntu
<RAOF> Oh, god.  Another "please break LSB directory structure" thread.
<ajmitch> RAOF: where? :)
<RAOF> Ubuntuforums, where else :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Here, if you really want a direct link: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=530915
* ajmitch cries
<RAOF> Indeed.
<ajmitch> even my phone follows the FHS
<RAOF> Not actually "more organised", as far as I can see, anyway.
<RAOF> ajmitch: Really?  What's your phone?
<ajmitch> just got it today, neo1973
<RAOF> Cool, I suppose.  I haven't actually heard of that.
<calc> user dirs directly under /
<calc> that doesn't scale well
<calc> RAOF: yea that design looks like a mac user wanting linux to work like it
<ajmitch> RAOF: www.openmoko.org
<calc> RAOF: or something similar
<calc> that isn't to say there aren't places that FHS could be improved, but not in a breaking unix manner way
<RAOF> ajmitch: Ooooh, one of *those* phones.
<ajmitch> yep :)
<calc> the layout under the user dirs is already implemented in gnome 2.19
<RAOF> The freedesktop user dirs thingy?  Yeah, most of them.
<calc> oh is that a fdo spec, cool :)
* calc loves fdo :)
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> Huzzah for XDG basedir spec!
* calc wrote menu-xdg :)
<calc> too bad i didn't push harder to get debian to stop using menu files and go to desktop files :\
<calc> while i was maintaining KDE
<StevenK> calc: Noone would have listened, you were just the crazy KDE maintainer. :-P
<ScottK> Now he's the even crazier OOO maintainer.
<StevenK> Agreed. :-)
<StevenK> But he's getting paid for it, so he can't be that crazy.
<ScottK> That's true.
<elmargol> I'm searching the rules for naming a package. can't find it on the wiki :(
<ScottK> What kind of package
<elmargol> I'm interested how I see if a package has ubuntu specific changes
<RAOF> If it's got "ubuntu" in the version, yes.
<ScottK> What RAOF said.
<elmargol> If I have to change something on the debian/controls file do I have to name it ubuntu?
<RAOF> The version will become x.y-$DEBIAN_REVISIONubuntu1, yes.
<RAOF> Oh, unless it's a native package, which it almost certainly isn't.
<elmargol> :(
<RAOF> (The native packages approximate a set of measure 0 on the archive)
<RAOF> I don't understand the ":(".  After touching the package you have to bump the package version anyway.
<elmargol> The problem is how do I check if I can request a sync from debian. On the wiki they say i have to check if there are ubuntu changes
<RAOF> elmargol: Firstly, if you need to change debian/control then it's a merge, not a sync.  Secondly, is there any particular reason why the debian package should be merged?
<elmargol> Well we have gnunet-0.7.2b now. and still gnunet-gtk 0.7.1c so yes there is a reason
<RAOF> elmargol: UVF is in effect, and the auto-syncher got turned off before that.  You need a good reason (ie: bugs fixed) before we even consider it.
<RAOF> s/we consider/it should be considered/
<RAOF> elmargol: Is it a bugfix release?
<white> !info emacs21 gutsy
<ubotu> emacs21: The GNU Emacs editor. In component main, is optional. Version 21.4a+1-5ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 1977 kB, installed size 5928 kB
<RAOF> emacs: the only text-editor/operating system
<RAOF> I assume there's a security bug, then :)
<white> is the security patch included? CVE-2007-2833
<ubotu> Emacs 21 allows user-assisted attackers to cause a denial of service (crash) via certain crafted images, as demonstrated via a GIF image in vm mode, related to image size calculation. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2833)
<white> i just uploaded an NMU (21.4a+1-5.1) to unstable
<RAOF> aptitude changelog suggests not
<elmargol> RAOF: I ask upsteam about this
<white> RAOF: what is the ubuntu change?
<RAOF> elmargol: It's entirely possible to *get* an exception.  It's just that we want a reason other than "higher version number!!!!11" :)
<RAOF> white: libpng3->12, desktop file changes, -fno-stack-protector, and a couple of extra metapackages
<elmargol> The changelog has some entries about bugfixing and some minor features
<RAOF> You probably want to read
<RAOF> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<white> RAOF: then you might want to merge, check out: http://developer.skolelinux.no/~white/security/emacs21/CVE-2007-2833.diff
<ubotu> Emacs 21 allows user-assisted attackers to cause a denial of service (crash) via certain crafted images, as demonstrated via a GIF image in vm mode, related to image size calculation. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2833)
<white> ubotu: you said that already, know when you have to talk and when not
<RAOF> white: If no one else grabs it, I'll look at it this evening.  Along with working out the UVFe process for Miro & xserver-xgl.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<POX_> RAOF: no, libxine1-ffmpeg doesn't have python bindings; can you point me to .dsc file again?
<RAOF> POX_: http://www.cooperteam.net/miro_0.9.8.1-0ubuntu1.dsc .  And it doesn't matter that libxine1-ffmpeg doesn't have python bindings, since democracyplayer provides it's own xine bindings.
<RAOF> My understanding is that libxine1-ffmpeg merely enhances an existing libxine, and as such requires no special bindings.
<RAOF> My understanding may, of course, be faulty.
<POX_> well, if so, I guess it should be recommended by xine, not miro
<POX_> (IMHO)
<RAOF> Possibly.
<RAOF> However, other things (rhthmbox, for example) recommend gstreamer plugin packages; this is an equivalent situation.
<RAOF> Man, what a traversty of "rhythmbox" :)
<RAOF> POX_: Incidentally, have you talked with Uwe about miro at all?  He's the democracyplayer maintainer.
<POX_> no, but you can mail him :)
<RAOF> Yeah, I'm planning to.
<POX_> I guess sometimes it's easier to upload your packages to Debian first, right ScottK? :)
<RAOF> Not when it's easier to actually get them to run on Ubuntu :)
<POX_> at least 2 of my sponsorees with @ubuntu.com email address are saying that
<RAOF> It's certianly recommended.  And the process for getting into Debian really doesn't seem much more daunting than REVU -> Universe.
<RAOF> Although that's *after* I've had a couple of packages through that route, of course.
<POX_> well, I don't know, I always just ask for syncs :)
<RAOF> Also a winner :)
<POX_> RAOF: btw, libboost-python in debian is using python2.4 again
<POX_> but miro will work with 2.5 in Debian as well
<POX_> (I requested for binNMUs)
<RAOF> Yeah, I heard care of Uwe.  How will miro handle that?
<POX_> well, if I were Uwe, I would use python-central, it handles such packages beter than pysupport
<POX_> hint: current kayword
<POX_> keyword
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.
* RAOF finally gets it
<POX_> you can replace "DEB_PYTHON_COMPILE_VERSION = 2.5" with "DEB_PYTHON_COMPILE_VERSION = ($shell pyversions -vd 2>/dev/null)"
<rugueux> I need some help for packaging a multibinary ;) can so help ?
<rugueux> in fact I have a makefile from the source that make everythingp in one place, dh_make is putting everything in debian/tm
<rugueux> i've created a pkg.install file with /usr/lib/sane/libsane-epkowa.so.1.0.15 in it, but dh_make say cannot stat libsane-epkow...
<RAOF> I don't think you want full paths in install file.  Also, dh_make won't be saying anything, since you only run it once to create the template package.
<rugueux> I mean debuild
<rugueux> the file libsane-epkowa.so.1.0.15 is present in debian/tmp/usr/lib/sane/libsane-epkowa.so.1.0.15
<rugueux> if I don't put full path in install file, where should I specify the target directory ?
<RAOF> rugueux: So, the file has two usages.  You can just list files you want to install (relative to the base-dir), so you might be after a line like "debian/tmp/usr/lib/sane/libsane-epkowa.so.0.15"
<RAOF> rugueux: That will put the file where you expect in the package (in /usr/lib/sane/...)
<RAOF> rugueux: Alternatively, you can have 2 paths on a line.  That tells dh_install to move the file from the left hand path to the right hand path.
<RAOF> "debian/tmp/usr/lib/sane/*.so.* debian/pkgname/usr/lib/notsane/"
<rugueux> ok !  fine ! It is easy when you know it ;) thank you, I'm trying
<Zombie> Question.
<Zombie> Does the intel driver for the i810 chipset support Meta Modes?
<Tonio_> hi there
<Tonio_> someone here has an hp printer with an embeded fax ?
<RAOF> Ok.  Let's check that miro really builds & runs, and learn how to file a UVFe request...
<davrobaniak> hi everybody
<davrobaniak> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=7 <== if any MOTU can take 5 mins to take a look at this package, he will receive a virtual hug, :)
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=21 -> please someone nuke this one. thx
<dholbach> Kmos:    diff -run gedit-2.16.0/ gedit-2.18.0/ | diffstat > diffstat.txt        for example
<dholbach> that's what        diff -ruN <package>-{old-version,new-version} | diffstat > diffstat.txt        is supposed to mean
<Kmos> thx
<Kmos> dholbach: i first apply the diff, right ?
<dholbach> compare the old package to the new package
<dholbach> where package means extracted source code
<Kmos> so no diff is applied
<dholbach> which diff do you refer to?
<dholbach> the debian/ diff?
<dholbach> yeah, apply it
<Kmos> ah
<Kmos> yeah.. i mean that one
<dholbach> ok good
* dholbach -> lunch
<Kmos> thx
<Kmos> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc --logfile pbuilder.log
<Kmos> isn't this correct?
<Kmos> isn't saving the log
<jrib> Kmos: I never used that option but try putting *.dsc at the end
<Kmos> jrib: thx
<Kmos> jrib: it worked.. thanks
<xxxxx1> mornin' people :)
<TheMuso> Evening Hobbsee.
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<ScottK> Kmos: Is rdiff-backup is Universe or Main?
<Hobbsee> hi
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves
<geser> ScottK: main
<TheMuso> Hobbsee, zul, StevenK, ScottK, gpocentek Can I safely assume that native packages, such as those for ubuntustudio, such as ubuntustudio-look, ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-icon-theme, ubuntustudio-meta etc are ok to go through without review, as these are native packages, for use in putting the ubuntuStudio distribution together?
<Kmos> ScottK: main
<StevenK> Hmmm
<geser> Hobbsee: are you going to merge texfam?
<Kmos> ScottK: Daniel Holbach told me to do the process
<ScottK> Kmos: Then why did you assign MOTU UVF?
<ScottK> OK.
<Kmos> ask him why
<ScottK> Do the Main process, not the MOTU process.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Let me think.
<ScottK> I except it's because he didn't actually look assuming you had already checked.
<ScottK> TheMuso: I'm not sure why you would assume that?  I think it bears discussing.
<Kmos> ScottK: so I need to assign the bug to which team?
<Kmos> there is a main uvf ?
<ScottK> Kmos: I have no idea.
<Kmos> there is a main mvf ?
<Kmos> :)
<ScottK> I just know it's not us.
<TheMuso> ScottK: This is why I am asking. Maybe safely assuming is not the right words, but I wanted to check with you guys first. The ubuntustudio guys still want to get things such as art etc in, and since these are all native packages...
<StevenK> Kmos: Of course there is.
<LongPointyStick> it would be *very* helpful if my connection to irc didnt die.
<LongPointyStick> geser: i wasnt planning on it
<StevenK> LongPointyStick: More fun this way.
<LongPointyStick> StevenK: :)
<Kmos> StevenK: what's the name of it ?
<geser> Kmos: yes, ubuntu-release (see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-August/000327.html)
<StevenK> I think it's -release
<StevenK> Gah
<gpocentek> TheMuso: I'm not sure that all of these should be native
<Kmos> geser: thx
<gpocentek> ah, nm
<gpocentek> that was not the question...
<geser> LongPointyStick: so I can merge it?
<Hobbsee_> TheMuso: well, for ubuntustudio stuff certainly, it's on their own heads, and wont affect the rest of the distro, if htey break it, native packaging or not.
<Hobbsee_> i wouldnt want to blanket-exclude all native packages, though
<Hobbsee_> geser: if you wish
<geser> TheMuso: I had a similar question about UVF and native packages and IIRC was told to decided based on the changes if it needs an UVFe or not. I don't know if this changed.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well I can certainly give you an assurance of it not breaking too badly, as I will likely be reviewing everything that gets uploaded anyway. I am their point person for uploads.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: cool
<geser> Hobbsee, ScottK, StevenK: while we are the topic: does every upload of a native package (strictly speaking it's a new version) to Debian need an UVFe or only for big changes?
<StevenK> That's a good question. Strictly speaking it would need a UVFe.
* ScottK agrees.
<Hobbsee> geser: which also is the same for bzr revisions.
<Hobbsee> it really depends how much we trust our MOTU's who are uploading.
<ScottK> But that's always true.  With UVF we are already past the you're a MOTU so we trust you point in the process.
* ScottK things they should do a UVFe, even if only file a bug and ask "does this one need a UVFe".
<geser> ScottK: but it's still possible to upload/sync new revisions without needing an UVFe
<ScottK> But these aren't just revisions.
<ScottK> Do we need a separate Native Package Freeze?
<geser> I don't believe that's needed
<ScottK> Technically, I guess, native packages aren't "Upstream" versions.
* ScottK gives up and punts to StevenK.
<geser> the question is should one "backport" a bug fix from a native package and upload it as ubuntu1 or do a UVFe. in both cases you get the same source but with diffent versioning.
<geser> of course depending on the amount of the changes
<geser> it's clear that a major rewrite of a native package needs a UVFe but does a e.g. 5-lines-diff need it also?
<mok0> If someone here has some time to review, please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=19 and/or http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=22? (Re: this month's discussion on the mailing list, I intend to maintain the packages once they have been accepted)
<norsetto> hello all
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> geser: hi :-)
<Hobbsee> geser: i wouldnt think anything <30 lines or something needed a UVFe, tbh.  the MOTU (and hopeful, if it's a sponsorship) should be able to eyeball that well.
<norsetto> geser: thx for your note on bug 133689
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133689 in gobby "Please merge gobby (0.4.5-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133689
<TheMuso> Ok guys. Would it be easier if I emailed you all and we discussed it that way?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: probably a good idea
<TheMuso> Ok, will do.
<xxxxx1> hey norsetto
<ryanakca> whats changelog.in for ?
<Kmos> bug 133833
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133833 in Ubuntu "Please sync pixman from Debian experimental" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133833
<Kmos> it's valid from experimental ?
<norsetto> xxxxx1: hi 5x1!
<norsetto> gotta go, wife wants to go shopping ......
<ScottK> Kmos: Why is that package in Experimental and not in Unstable?
<geser> Kmos: yes, it's possible to sync from experimental. And I except that a core-dev knows what he's doing. So the sync is ok.
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> he didn't subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Kmos> or any other
<Hobbsee> Kmos: which suggests that he still knows what he's doing, and is planning to add more to the bug.
<Kmos> yes, he added U-A
<Kmos> checked activity log
<Kmos> Hobbsee: ok
<ThibG> hi
<Hobbsee> ScottK: clamav ackd'.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<davrobaniak> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=7 <== if any MOTU can take 5 mins to take a look at this package, he will receive a virtual hug, :)
<ScottK> I'm still recreating my pbuilder and such so I can properly test it.
<davrobaniak> ok
<Hobbsee> ScottK: as in, i'll blanket-ack that, on the condition that the uploader checks for, and updates, any reverse dependancies as required each time
<ThibG> If someone could sync the REVU uploaders keyring, please :)
<TheMuso> Ok, email sent.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: This is a bugfix update, so there shouldn't be any rdepends issues like there were going 0.8x to 0.9x.  The only new feature defaults off and I'm not turning it on.
<Hobbsee> yeah - i was meaning for clamav in general
<ScottK> OK.  I completely understand about the rdepends concerns.
* persia wonders if anyone has a pointer to a verified host key for the new REVU
<ScottK> I need to go take my dog to the vet, but if someone would have a look at why my pbuilder creation fails: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/34523 I'd really appreciate it.
* ScottK will read the scrollback when I get back.
<ScottK> The box in question is a fresh install running Gutsy.
<ThibG> I've not used pbuilder for long, but you should try to manually unmount /var/cache/pbuilder/build//7009/proc and /var/cache/pbuilder/build//7009/sys, before retrying... You can also use lsof to see if something is using it
<ThibG> ScottK,
<zul> do do do
<_MMA_> da da da
* _MMA_ couldnt resist.
<ScottK> ThibG: Thanks.
* ScottK is back
<ThibG> ScottK, does it work ?
<ScottK> It's busy with something.  I haven't figured out what yet.
<ThibG> another shell ?
<ThibG> In the worst case, reboot, it'll not be mounted at boot time
<ScottK> I haven't figured out the right combination of lsof and grep to yield an interesting result yet.
<ScottK> Yes, but I've tried that before and get the same failure.
<ThibG> er... strange
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> I had rebuilt this install doing an experimental (I know it's not supported) Dapper --> Gutsy direct upgrade.  I ran into this problem and couldn't sort it.  I assumed it was some artifact of my odd upgrade and re-installed fresh.  Same problem.
<ThibG> what's the output of mount ?
<ScottK2> ThibG: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/34526/
<ThibG> that looks ok...
<ThibG> and the output of lsof /var/cache/pbuilder/build//7009/ ?
<ScottK2> Nothing
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> does /var/cache/pbuilder/build/7009 contain anything?
<ScottK2> I just tried umount again and now it claims it's not mounted
<ScottK2> It did earlier.
* ScottK2 looks
<ScottK2> It still has proc/ and sys/
<ThibG> and are proc/ and sys/ empty ?
<ScottK2> no
<ThibG> hm ok
<ThibG> you could try pbuilder clean, now, since proc/ and sys/ are not mounted
<ScottK2> "/proc in the chroot appears identical to the real /proc
<ScottK2> OK.  I'll try that
<ScottK2> That fails too.  I'm using a script to call pbuilder that I didn't write.  I'll try again without the script and see how that goes.
<ScottK> Same problem with just pbuilder directly.  Urgh.
<ThibG> that's strange... looks like that /proc is binded to proc/, but you can't unmount it...
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> That's exactly what it looks like to me.
<ScottK> The last pbuilder update was a month ago, so I expect if it was broken, we'd know.
<ThibG> to me, that's not related to pbuilder itself, but to the kernel
<toutouff> Hi
<ScottK> Hi toutouff.
<zul> dholbach: welcome back btw
<toutouff> I have package where the .desktop file is not in the debian/ dir. Am I authorized to edit in anyway ?
<dholbach> zul: thanks
<ScottK> ThibG: I'm working my way from not scary ideas to scary ideas.
<toutouff> s/edit in/edit it/
<ThibG> ScottK, hm... it is saying that it isn't mounted, or that it can't be unmounted ?
<ScottK> already mounted.
<ThibG> and if you try umount ?
<ScottK2> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/34529/
<ThibG> I remember having a similar problem with a chroot on edgy eft
<ThibG> getty opened a file descriptor on the chroot/proc and chroot/sys directories... I had to reboot
<ScottK> Urgh.  Well I started this install on an Edgy server CD because that's what I could find, so maybe I've got the same problem.
<ThibG> ScottK, I upgrade since dapper, and it happened only one time
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> This happens every time. so not the same thing I'm sure then.
<ScottK> Thanks for all your help.  I'm not quite sure what to try next.
<ThibG> I'm sorry I can't help you, I'm on Feisty, and I can't see why it won't unmount...
<ScottK> No problem.  I really do appreciate the help so far.
<ryanakca> hmm. how would one fix bug 132587 ? have rules go into each dir and run make manually? plain old ./configure && make && make install works fine.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132587 in bzflag "bzflag includes source makefiles and empty directories, no fonts included" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132587
<ryanakca> And... shouldn't all packages have a 'compat' file, instead of "export DH_COMPAT=4"
<geser> ryanakca: both ways worked but IIRC the export version is deprecated now (and gives a linda/lintian warning or error)
<ryanakca> ok, so, update it. And, shouldn't it be 5 now?
* ScottK sees new kernel bits starting to pile up in binary NEW, so maybe I'll just wait a bit.
<geser> change it only to 5 when you know that it doesn't break the package
<ryanakca> ok. and the bug?
<geser> ryanakca: when fixing a bug update debian/compat only when needed (to keep the Ubuntu-Debian delta small). Don't forget to also update the debhelper build-dependency when bumping it to 5
<ryanakca> ok
<geser> ryanakca: "make install" installs the missing fonts correctly?
<geser> then try to find out if the get correctly installed in debian/tmp (or debian/pkgname) and don't end in the package
<ryanakca> ok
<geser> interesting: according to the Contents files, the Debian package contains the fonts, but not the Ubuntu package
<geser> did we somehow managed to break it?
<ryanakca> hmm. methinks it's a gutsy problem.
<geser> ryanakca: I guess it's a bashism in debian/rules
* ryanakca nods
<geser> can you check if "cp -p data/fonts/[^CM] * debian/bzflag/usr/share/bzflag/fonts/" in dash?
<ryanakca> just in a fresh source?
<ryanakca> or after make ?
<geser> just checked with "ls -l [^CM] *" in some random dir
<geser> bash lists correct all files not starting with C or M
<ryanakca> but dash shows the opposite
<geser> dash lists files starting with C or M (I guess it would list files with ^ if I had one)
<geser> instead of copying the fonts it copies the Makefile
* ryanakca nods
<ryanakca> ok.
<ryanakca> So, all I need to do is figure out the correct dash format
<geser> yes
<ryanakca> cheers, and thanks :)
<geser> and please file it in the Debian BTS to
<geser> too
* ryanakca nods
<geser> it's a bug in Debian too, if debian/rules contains bashism
<ryanakca> yep
<ryanakca> I assume it's too late to submit to debian and then sync/merge?
<geser> it's still ok to merge/sync if only the revision changes
<ryanakca> ok
<ryanakca> goodies :)
<ScottK> And exceptions are still fairly liberal if you need one.
<geser> ryanakca: using data/fonts/[!CM] * should work both in bash and dash
<ThibG> hm... Can someone sync uploaders keyring for REVU please?
<ryanakca> geser: thanks
<ryanakca> why does "-cp -p data/[!CM] * debian/$@/usr/share/bzflag/" start with a hyphen? (line 68 of rules)
<geser> it has something to do with make, IIRC make ignores the exitcode from those calls
<mok0> ryanakca: yes, make ignores error codes
<ryanakca> ah, ok, thanks
<mok0> ryanakca: it is better to use cp -r
<mok0> cp -f
<mok0> cp -f NOT cp -r
<ryanakca> ok
<ryanakca> mok0: (instead of 'cp -p' ? or is that instead of the '-cp -p'?)
<geser> I guess 'cp -pf' instead of '-cp -p'
<mok0> ryanakca: cp -pf
<mok0> ryanakca: The -f should basically do what "-cp" does, except it is cp that handles errors. You only want to ignore the error if the files exist already, not ALL errors
<ryanakca> ok.
<ryanakca> and, for the debian bug, do I just call it 'bzflag includes source makefiles and empty directories, no fonts included', or 'Bashisms in debian/rules'?
* ryanakca does wish debian would get a sane bug manager
<geser> the later
<ryanakca> and do they care if it doesn't build for Ubuntu? Or do I just mark it as a normal/minor bug because it builds on debian, just not for us.
<azeem> what are bashisms in debian/rules?  I thought debian/rules is supposed to be a Makefile?
<Toadstool> azeem: make uses /bin/sh to execute shell commands
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody
<geser> azeem: how would call using bash extenstion in shell calls from a Makefile?
<azeem> I See
<geser> ryanakca: I would file the bug as normal, as it's a bug but doesn't make the build fail for Debian
<mok0> When doing apt-get upgrade in gutsy, I occasionally get the following message: (Reading database ... Error in select()
<mok0>                                        195539 files and directories currently installed.)
<mok0> ... and then I apparently have to hit <CR> to get it to continue
<leonel> scottK   new clamav version   no security updates  only bug fixes and extra support
<ScottK> leonel: I'm working on it now.  I've already got the UVF exception approved.
<ScottK> Thanks for your confirmation that there's no security issues.
<leonel> scottK that's for  .. gutsy ?
<ScottK> Yes.
<leonel> great
<ScottK> I'll wait until we sync from Debian to request another backport.
<ryanakca> hmm. What package do I need as depends for "checking for mysql_real_connect in -lmysqlclient... no" ?
* ryanakca wonders about http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-32-1
<geser> ryanakca: have you tried libmysqlclient15-dev already?
* ryanakca nods
<ScottK> leonel: Uploaded and accepted.
<leonel> GUUUUD !
<pirast> hi, i have a .dsc .diff and .orig.tar.gz. now i want to extract the orig.tar.gz and apply the diff on it. i know that there is a command that does this but i forgot what it's name like. please help
<mok0> dpkg-source -x
<pirast> mok0 thx
<mok0> What are the conventions concerning the ~ component of the release? How does it sort?
<Ng> apologies for my lack of familiarity with the MOTU mojo. I've just come across a universe related bug in gutsy and it's already filed in LP and there is even a patch. Can I do anything to help it get fixed before release? :)
<xtknight> Ng, hmm out of curiosity which Bug #?
<ScottK> mok0: You mean Main/Restricted and Universe/Multiverse?
<Ng> xtknight: #130334
<xtknight> Bug 130334
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130334 in service-discovery-applet "[Gutsy]  xvncviewer support broken by new version 4.1.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130334
<mok0> Errr, I don't know, I've just seen that people have started using it
<ScottK> mok0: What context?
<mok0> ScottK: I am considering the situation where I am packaging software for my own site, which I at some later point may get into the distro.
<ScottK> OK.
<mok0> I can't use -0mok1 ... etc
<ScottK> I see.
<mok0> ,,, but I might use -0ubuntu1~mok1 (?)
<ScottK> Just what I was about to type.
<ScottK> 1~mokwhatever will always be lower than 1.
<mok0> ...so anything without a tilde is sorted first?
<xtknight> Ng, well after a patch is applied the bug should be set to Confirmed (i believe, it already it is), and subscribed to whoever is the sponsor for that package's component
<mok0> ScottK: hehe, thanks
<ScottK> xtknight: Is it a patch or a debdiff?
<xtknight> ScottK, only a patch
<xtknight> i could try to make a debdiff out of it
<Ng> xtknight: would that be the person listed as "Uploaded By" in LP?
<ScottK> The subscribing the sponsors (UUS/UMW) would be premature.  It needs to be packaged into a debdiff first.
<ScottK> Ng: No.
<xtknight> Ng, ok essentially somebody must put it into the proper format before it is given to the "higher ups".
<ScottK> Ng: It's ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-main-sponsors depending on where the package is.
<xtknight> i can give it a shot no guarantees though
<Ng> ok
<ScottK> xtknight: Make sure you are patching the Gutsy version of the package.
<Ng> it's hard;y the most important bug in the world, but the patch is so tiny that it'd be a shame not to get it in :)
<xtknight> ScottK, ok
<norsetto> ScottK: anything else required in bug 133689 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133689 in gobby "Please merge gobby (0.4.5-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133689
<ScottK> Ng: Thank you for coming and contributing.
* ScottK looks
<Ng> ScottK: no no no, thank you all for your hard work :)
<ScottK> norsetto: Acked
<norsetto> ScottK: thx
<xxxxx1> ScottK, can you take a look at bug #69438 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 69438 in apticron "Bashism in /etc/cron.daily/apticron" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69438
<leonel> ScottK where can I get the  deb src for  clamav 0.91.2 for gutsy
<pkern> Could someone tell me how to interpret "component-mismatches.txt"? If a package is listed in "source and binary promotions to main", did the promotion fail?
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Not now.  Sorry.
<xxxxx1> np.
<ScottK> leonel: It's just been uploaded.  Give it some time for the repositories to replicate.
<ScottK> leonel: Or from LP https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.91.2-0ubuntu1
<leonel> scottK then  will be here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/clamav/ ??
<ScottK> Yes.  Eventually.
<leonel> ok  thanks
<ScottK> BTW, I did not enable the new feature by default.  If you want to change that, you'll have to change the clamd.conf.
<geser> pkern: which package exactly?
<pkern> geser: net6/obby/gobby
<geser> looking at it I'd say the part "Source and binary promotions to main" list packages which need to be moved to main
<geser> checking with LP gobby was today for 5 hours in main, net6 and obby never left universe
<leonel> scottK Ok
<xtknight> Ng, what are the steps to reproduce this bug?
<xtknight> he patched service-discovery-applet (which calls vncviewer) but i dont see how to initiate this
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Don't mangle the maintainer for an Edgy SRU and edit out the spurious po file changes.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, the po files are not changed by me
<xxxxx1> it's automatic when you run dpkg-build..
<ScottK> I know.  Edit them out of the debdiff.
<ScottK> Before you upload the new one.
<ScottK> That was not a thorough review BTW, just stuff that lept out at me in the 30 seconds I had.
<xxxxx1> i'll remove the maintainer
<pkern> geser: So there's a missing net6 and obby promotion?
<xxxxx1> ScottK, well.. since it don't need the maintainer change we can use jdong's debdiff instead
<xxxxx1> :)
<ScottK> Then please delete yours and comment why.
<ScottK> The Dapper/Edgy toolchain have not been tested with the mangled maintainers and so for those releases you don't change them.
<leonel> scottK gutsy's clamav  0.91.2  builds and works  fine in Feisty ..
<xxxxx1> ScottK, thanks to point me
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  I have it running on my test mail server.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, done. :)
<leonel> scottK now for dapper  ... backport  the  package from kitterman.com/clamav
<leonel> ?
<ScottK> Not today (busy).
<leonel> I mean   I can do it  just  asking if that's the better way to go
<geser> pkern: at least, but I don't know the current status for gobby either (if it gets promoted or not)
<leonel> scottK ?
<ScottK> leonel: I won't get to it today.  If you want to do an updated package for dapper, just mail me the diff.gz and the .dsc and I'll put it up there.
<ScottK> Gotta run.  Back later.
<leonel> ok i will
<pkern> geser: But who could I ask about that?
<pkern> The binary package list on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/gobby looks weird.
<Supremus> hey
<sistpoty> hi folks
<nixternal> hiya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi nixternal
<xtknight> when im making a debdiff of someone else's patch, who should the author be in the changelog?
<xtknight> i assume, mine with a mention of original patch author?
<ScottK> Yes.  Your name at the bottom of the changelog entry and then mention who did the patch in your changelog item about the patch.
<xtknight> k
<Ng> xtknight: you'll need a device which announces an mDNS vnc service. not sure of anything linuxy which does that, but a Mac will
<ScottK> Avahi won't do that too?
<xtknight> Ng, the patch author responded with some steps which i will try
<ScottK> Personally I don't think anyone needs mDNS.
<xtknight> but ya he mentioned Avahi also
<ScottK> That's what Ubuntu uses.
<ScottK> It's installed by default.
<xtknight> hmm
<xtknight> avahi is "zeroconf service discovery"?
<ScottK> Thus ensuring an endless stream of pointless queries to the root DNS servers.
<ScottK> Sounds right.
<ScottK> I only know enough about it to think we shouldn't have it.
<xtknight> hehe
<xtknight> Ng, when i  click on my local VNC server i get a password box that doesnt respond to any of my keys
<xtknight> even with patch.?
<xtknight> (besides the fact that my vnc server shows up three times)
<Ng> xtknight: keys? it should just be the vnc password
<xtknight> Ng, i cant type anything
<xtknight> Ng, when i press enter nothing happens, nothing registers in the textbox
<xtknight> but this is with the old vncviewer3
<Ng> strange, it's just spawning xvncviewer
<Ng> that'll be it then I expect
<Ng> I bet it would work for you without the patch
<xtknight> Ng, however running vncviewer 3 as normal..the passwd dialog here works as expected
<Ng> so this is less simple than it seemed, some version detection could well be required :/
<xtknight> hmm
<xtknight> what is by default? 3 or 4?
<moquist> having trouble recovering my REVU password
<moquist> unless my new password really is "None"...
<xtknight> ya VNC 4.11 shows a big dialog box of parameters indicating an incorrect command line but this is even with the patch
<xtknight> well let me check that really quick..
<porthose> me also having trouble recovering my REVU password
<mok0> porthose: you have to re-upload a package
<porthose> I have
<moquist> Oh, right. That first.
* moquist hasn't
<xtknight> oh, do i need to recompile the python script or something?  there are pyc files
<mok0> then you press recover and decrypt the text that appears
<moquist> BTW, http://revu.tauware.de/index.py mentions the "Utnubu team". Perhaps a spelling change is in order? (This was on the old server, too...)
<ScottK> That's correct.
<xtknight> Ng, have you gotten this patch to work?  i apologize for my ignorance on this issue but ive never worked with python, and i tried using py_compilefiles and the patch still isn't working.
<ScottK> Note that it's Ubuntu reversed.
<mok0> moquist: it's ubuntu backwards :-)
<ScottK> That team's goal is to get Ubuntu stuff back up into Debian.
<moquist> ohhhhhhh. er, ok.
<moquist> Heh. OK, it's clever.
<moquist> Has my GPG key already been added to the REVU keyring, or do I need to do that again, too?
<Ng> xtknight: It worked for me with vnc4, but I didn't test 3. you shouldn't need to recompile anything. I don't have a mac here to test with, I'll try tomorrow
<leonel> scottK  following  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/PackageUpdate     when I do   debuils -S -sa  stops because it can't apply the patches
<ThibG> Hm... I've made a package for my own software, and I sent it to mentors.debian.net... Should I post it to REVU?
<moquist> Or maybe that's a LP thing, so unchanged.
<moquist> ThibG: I think that's the idea, yeah.
<xtknight> Ng, it appears you must reload the applet, so i think i've got it;l
<ScottK> leonel: Do you have dpatch installed?
<mok0> moquist: dpatch *rocks*
<ScottK> ThibG: Are you trying to get it into Debian or Ubuntu?
<leonel> scottK yes
<ScottK> Odd.
<porthose> mol0: tried to decrypt with this error messag gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<porthose> gpg: decrypt_message failed: eof
<ThibG> ScottK, both
<ScottK> Then change the distro/version for Ubuntu and upload it to REVU, yes.
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> -1 to -0ubuntu1 and unstable to gutsy?
<ScottK> leonel: Dunno what to tell you as debuild is what I used.
<ScottK> ThibG: Yes.
<ScottK> Although we are very near the new package freeze for Gutsy.
<xtknight> Ng, on cancelling the vnc dialog, an error message comes up as well.  so i suppose more mods are needed
<ScottK> Just so you know.
<leonel> scottK ok thanks  I'll keep diggin
<moquist> mok0: I don't disagree, but why are you telling me about dpatch?
<ScottK> leonel: Also it's already built on the buildd for amd64 so I'm pretty sure the package is not broadly broken.
<leonel> scottK for dapper ?
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> No, I haven't done dapper.
<ThibG> When my package is uploaded, am I notified in any way?
<leonel> scottK I've used the packages  0.91.1  from your site  and  tried to do the upgrade
<leonel> for dapper
<ScottK> Hmmmm
<ScottK> Not sure what to tell you.
<ScottK> I'd expect that it just needs the same debian/control changes that 91.1 needed.
<ThibG> (can't find it in "Current uploads")
<leonel> scottK ok thanks
<ScottK> ThibG: It takes several minutes for it to appear.
<ThibG> ok
<sistpoty> porthose: what package did you upload to revu?
<sistpoty> (just to find some point to debug your key problem=
<xtknight> Ng, sorry, i dont know how to fix this.  so i will comment and say that there needs to be version detection.
<xtknight> Ng, if a new patch is available i will be glad to test it and make a debdiff to get it uploaded
<porthose> sistpoty: ampache
* sistpoty looks
<mok0> xtknight: what does "Ng" mean?
<xtknight> mok0, it's his nickname
* mok0 blushes
<mok0> xtknight: he's pretty silent though :-)
<xtknight> Ng, actually vncviewer 3 also works fine with the patch/asks for a pw
<sistpoty> porthose: can't find any error here... can you generally decrypt messages with the key 0x6F45F3B6 ?
<porthose> Yes have decrypted two messages with it
<porthose> should I just generate another and start over
<sistpoty> porthose: what does the lostpw thingy give you? "None" as password?
<leonel> scottk   this is the error  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34560/
<sistpoty> porthose: or some gpg error message?
<ScottK> leonel: Looking
<porthose> It just gives me this error message gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found and gpg: decrypt _message failed: eot and thats it
<ScottK> leonel: Very odd.  I have no idea why that would be.
<leonel> ok  I'll keep on it
<ThibG> My package doesn't appears on revu... Maybe the keyring hasn't been synced since I'm registered?
<sistpoty> porthose: hm... can you try to copy the message to a file and do a "gpg -d file" then?
<porthose> sistpoty:  sure give me a sec
<sistpoty> ThibG: what's your keyid (the one registered in LP?)
<sistpoty> (too lazy to look for myself now *g*)
<ThibG> F9EC5CF9
<highvolt1ge> oooh, press those mouse buttons baby
<sistpoty> ThibG: no, isn't in revu's keyring yet... I'll import it in a second
<ThibG> ok, thanks, sistpoty
<sistpoty> ThibG: np... you're a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors and have this key registered on LP? (because I'll then do a quick import of your key and not run the sync script again which takes longer than one hour now=
<ThibG> yes
<sistpoty> excellent!
<sistpoty> ThibG: done... I'll see if I find any package in rejected and put it back to incoming
<porthose> sistpoty: I get gpg:  encrpted with ELG-E key, ID D15D1A94 and gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available, I am assuming that the problem in on my end
<porthose> sistpoty: I do a gpg --list-keys and my secret key is there
<sistpoty> porthose: if only I were a gpg expert *g*... I'll take a look if I can find anything suspicious, but I guess it's a problem on your side
<ScottK> porthose: IIRC when I had a problem like that changing my gpg.conf to add "use-agent", installing gpg-agent, and restarting solved it.
<ThibG> sistpoty, scolily_0.4-0ubuntu1 is rejected I think
<porthose> ScottK: will try
<sistpoty> porthose: hm... probably s.th. is outdated somewhere, because I see (on my box) that the elg-e for 6F45F3B6 should be BD0CABAA
<sistpoty> so how would revu take d15d1a94 to encrypt the message then?
<sistpoty> porthose: I'll just mail the pw to you, ok?
<porthose> sistpoty: k
<porthose> sistpoty: thanks for all your help
<sistpoty> porthose: no problem
<porthose> ScottK: thanks for your help also
<sistpoty> porthose: ok, mail sent... let's hope you can decrypt the mail *g* (and that your mta won't reject mails from my dynip)
<porthose> sistpoty:  my fingers are crossed, thanks again
<sistpoty> you're welcome
<ThibG> thanks sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> ThibG: no problem
<porthose> sistpoty:  got it with no problems
<sistpoty> porthose: cool :)
<sistpoty> hm... just found a newly introduced security problem with this revu instance I setup at the WE: running a script as root and making it editable by the whole group is a bad idea
<geser> pkern: ask pitti or iwj in #ubuntu-devel about it, they both handle the MIRs
* leonel slaps  leonel for  trying to do the upgrade with a  bad downloaded package ...
<leonel> scottk  now fixing DetectPUA ...
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> What was the problem?
<leonel> Scottk:  I was using  a feisty package   not the package  you made  ..   DOH!
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Stuff happens.
<leonel> scottk:  this is  now the error   Unhandled option(clamd.conf): DetectPUA
<ScottK> leonel: Did you use the modified clamav-base.postinst.in in my package?
<ScottK> I had to change that.
<leonel> I'm looking at it
<leonel> for  gutsy ?
<ScottK> Yes.  In the new 0.91.2 package.
<leonel> lookin
<leonel> g
<ajmitch> morning
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<ScottK> Hello ajmitch.
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<norsetto> morning
<leonel> scottk building ...
<leonel> \o/  Whoo hoo !
* ajmitch needs to turn off that phone startup sound
<xxxxx1> bye all
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you sent in your retirement email, it's a sad day
<norsetto> he will be back .....
<sistpoty> ajmitch: you went get rid of me that fast though :P
<ajmitch> sistpoty: no I don't :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<geser> norsetto: did you simply forget to subscribe u-u-s to bug #133736 or does it wait for something?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133736 in battleball "Please merge battleball (2.0-16) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133736
<norsetto> geser: just alzhaimer :-(
<geser> norsetto: u-u-s is subscribed now
<norsetto> geser: yeah, I just did that
<norsetto> geser: thx for spotting that
<geser> np
<geser> it's a shame that patches get lost in LP unnoticed by the MOTUs
<norsetto> geser: yes, my bad
<geser> norsetto: I've seen gobby is back to u-u-s for upload. Are you aware that gobby is on the edge to move to main?
<norsetto> geser: well, saw some exchange on ubuntu-devel few hours ago
<geser> So you might want to hurry to find a MOTU for the upload else you might need to find a core-dev.
<norsetto> geser: I think I see one just here :-)
<geser> Sorry, I have no time right now. I write an exam tomorrow and want to look over my notes again.
<norsetto> geser: hmmm, about what?
<geser> Linear Algebra
* sistpoty needs to never ever do math again :)
<norsetto> geser: hmmm, what is a sparse matrix?
<jrib> ok to add "DebianImportFreeze, FeatureFreeze, UpstreamVersionFreeze, UVF Universe" to "Current Freezes" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU ?
<sistpoty> norsetto: a triangle one (with zero's in one triangle)? (hardly remembering any math though)
<norsetto> sistpoty: no :-)
<sistpoty> he
<ScottK> jrib: Where were you going ot add it?  We already have the freeze exception process linked there.
<jrib> ScottK: the current page says "Current Freezes: none"
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I'd say go for it.
<geser> norsetto: I need to know more in the direction of calculation of eigenvalues of a matrix and similar things
<norsetto> geser: ok, so its a basic one?
<sistpoty> oh, nice... used to know that once, about 5 years ago *g*
<ajmitch> geser: lucky you :)
<sistpoty> but I must admit, that I flunked math1/2 (first two terms) once, and math3/4 (2nd two terms) twice
<norsetto> geser: whats wrong with this: [2 3 1; 7 3 2; 4 6 2]  eigenvalueswise?
* norsetto knows how to be really boring sometime .....
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> norsetto: don't rob geser of his confidence in the exams :P
<norsetto> sistpoty: if you keep laughing I'll ask you how to stabilise a system with a double pole in the forward branch .....
* sistpoty hides
<leonel> scottk dapper's clamav  0.91.2  builded   I'll test it  later   be back
<ajmitch> this phone is great, it even has top, lsof, strace & gdb on the root fs
* norsetto wonders how he lived until now without a gdb in his phone
<ajmitch> norsetto: in darkness
* norsetto realises that he doesn't even have a phone!
<mok0_> norsetto: check if those eigenvectors are orthogonal
<norsetto> mok0: hey, don't ruin my exam question!
* norsetto bangs mok0 on the head with his gdbless phone
<mok0_> norsetto: sorry
<mok0_> norsetto:  Should've read the scroll-back... :-(
<blueyed> Hi
<blueyed> Is there a possibility to remove a package from universe? See bug 1780
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1780 in apt-spy "apt-spy does not have ubuntu mirror listing" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1780
<chantra> hi there, I can't get to recover my password :s can you help me out
<chantra> i type:
<chantra> gpg -d <<EOT
<sistpoty> chantra: have you uploaded a package to revu yet?
<chantra> --... BEGIN ...--
<chantra> once upon a time sistpoty
<chantra> up to -- .. END .. ---
<sistpoty> chantra: to the new revu instance?
<chantra> but I can't get it to work
<chantra> nope, only the old one
<chantra> I thought the recover was to recover those od accounts also
<sistpoty> chantra: then you don't have an account yet (as you could only comment to your own uploaded packages then anyways)
<sistpoty> chantra: no, all old accounts have been deleted, but you'll get a fresh new one, once you'll upload a package ;)
<chantra> ok
<chantra> once uploaded, do I receive an email?
<chantra> Once you have uploaded a package to REVU, a password will be created for you. To get it, enter your e-mail address into the login box, leaving the password field blank, and click Login. Click Recover, and REVU will display an encrypted message with your password in it.
<chantra> ok :)
<sistpoty> chantra: unlikely, there is a long standing bug in the email interface creating emails for first time uploads
<sistpoty> (which never was taken care of, because it doesn't interfere with processing uploads *g*)
<chantra> :)
<chantra> well, uploading, will see then
<chantra> cheers sistpoty
<ajmitch> I suppose I don't get emails from the process uploads cron job anymore
<sistpoty> chantra: please only upload, if you've got s.th. to review... space is limited on sparky
<sistpoty> np
<chantra> sistpoty: I had this port of system-config-lvm from fedora
<mok0> sispoty: is revu open source?
<chantra> I ported it a while ago
<ajmitch> mok0: always has been
<sistpoty> mok0: yes... somewhere on lp, anyone got a link?
* ajmitch digs
<sistpoty> (code of revu-hackers group=
<ajmitch> https://code.launchpad.net/revu
<ajmitch> 'trunk' is the branch to grab, I think
<chantra> sistpoty: even though ubuntu is not "lvm ready" yet (I mean out of the box), I thought it might interest some people
<mok0> ajmitch: great, thx. I'm curious to take a look...
<sistpoty> chantra: I only wanted you to not upload *just* to get an account back... if you've got a package, fire it up ;)
<sistpoty> mok0: revu1 is a pain to setup though... lot's of hardcoded pathes and ugly code ;)
<mok0> So, assuming I wanted to contribute, I would create a branch?
<norsetto> wouldn't make more sense to work on revu2?
<sistpoty> norsetto: yes and no, as we've got some new ideas for revu2 and want to rework quite some parts
<sistpoty> mok0: bzr branch <url>
<mok0> sistpoty: errr, I do that from my machine?
<sistpoty> mok0: whereever you want to create your branche
<sistpoty> -e
<norsetto> mok0: you do have bzr on your machine?
<sistpoty> (though I must admit, that I usually ask around here for advanced bzr stuff, because I'm still a novel user)
<mok0> norsetto: dunno. I use git these days
<RAOF> mok0: Then you'll be pretty familiar with bzr.
<mok0> RAOF: U mean same UI?
<sistpoty> mok0: try typing bzr? *g*
<mok0> sistpoty: I'll have to apt-get it
<sistpoty> mok0: so do it :P
<RAOF> mok0: Same workflow.  Branch (clone), [work, commit] *, push
<norsetto> mok0: just in case you need a quickstart guide: http://bazaar-vcs.org/QuickHackingWithBzr
<mok0> Great, thanks!
<mok0> So what is the url, exactly... is that the one from LP?
<sistpoty> norsetto: nice... does ubotu know about this yet?
<sistpoty> mok0: yes (the one displayed in the page=
<RAOF> mok0: Yup.  You can also "bzr branch lp://revu", I think.
<norsetto> sistpoty: not that I know
<sistpoty> !bzr
<ubotu> bzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.
<jrib> Hi, does anyone have a few minutes to review the package for the python reverend module? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=24
<RAOF> mok0: Sorry, "bzr branch lp:revu"
<ajmitch> RAOF: 'same' workflow, except bzr makes sense :)
<sistpoty> hm... anyone who can teach this to ubotu?
<ajmitch> RAOF: that doesn't look like it'd have enough info to get a branch
<RAOF> ajmitch: If there's a trunc associated with a project, it is.
<jrib> sistpoty: the quick start guide?
<sistpoty> jrib: yes
<ajmitch> given that a branch is person/project/branchname
<ajmitch> RAOF: if there are multiple branches named trunk?
<norsetto> !help
<norsetto> !I need somebody
<mok0> RAOF: "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: https://code.launchpad.net/revu/"
<RAOF> ajmitch: There's some way to associate a particular branch as the main branch.
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i need somebody - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<RAOF> mok0: Yeah, sorry.  Revu doesn't have the needed setup for that (joybot does :))
<RAOF> mok0: You'll want to use the url provided from the code page.
<jrib> !bzr | sistpoty
<ubotu> sistpoty: bzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.  See http://bazaar-vcs.org/QuickHackingWithBzr for a quickstart guide.
<sistpoty> thanks jrib!
<mok0> RAOF: Still can't get it
<sistpoty> mok0: you'll need to get one of the branches listed on code.lp.net/revu, e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk (for the one being currently in use=
<mok0> that doesnt work
<mok0> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk/
<mok0> Ooops. Got it now
<sistpoty> mok0: sorry, wrong again, click on the link, then you'll get the url...
<RAOF> mok0: You're running "bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk"L
<RAOF> s/L/?
<mok0> RAOF: LOL got it now
<norsetto> hmmmm, outdated factoid
<norsetto> !mentors
<ubotu> for initial mentoring to introduce you to the MOTU world check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
<norsetto> the way it is written this should actually point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-22
<norsetto> !jdongcrack
<ubotu> jdongcrack is Hobbsee: jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<ajmitch> sounds appropriate
<sistpoty> lol
<jrib> !-mentors
<ubotu> mentors-#ubuntu-motu has no aliases - added by LaserJock on 2006-07-13 21:55:22
<jrib> !mentors =~ s#https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors#https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor#
<ubotu> I know nothing about mentors yet, jrib
<jrib> !mentors-#ubuntu-motu =~ s#https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors#https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor#
<ubotu> I'll remember that jrib
<sistpoty> ok, I really need to go to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<norsetto> good bot, good bot
<jrib> night
<norsetto> bye sist!
<jussi01> hmmm, I want a package out of the new queue... is it possible to grab it somehow?
<RAOF> Our new queue?  There should be a dgettable link on LP.
<jussi01> RAOF: Im after kdenlive
<jussi01> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?start=20
<jussi01> Id also need mlt iirc
<ajmitch> RAOF: I don't think there is, unless they changed that for a reason
* jussi01 cries
<RAOF> ajmitch: Hm.  I'm sure I've pulled a package out of new, but I can't see how now.
<jussi01> hmmm, who is Albin Tonnerre ? anyone know?
<ScottK> Lutin
<BirthdayMuso> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new I think
<lionel> Youu can get it there : http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/kdenlive_0.5-0.0ubuntu1.dsc
<ajmitch> ah right, so not from LP directly, but dumped out of the queue
<lionel> jussi01: he is Lutin
<Lutin> o/
<jussi01> ok, so lutin is the maintainer
<lionel> ;)
<ajmitch> Lutin: run away quickly
<jussi01> Lutin: would you mind emailing me the packages fro kdenlive?
<Lutin> jussi01: sort of - merged from debian multimedia actually
<Lutin> jussi01: i386 or amd64 ?
<jussi01> if its not too much hassle?
<jussi01> Lutin: i386
<Lutin> ajmitch: lol :)
<jussi01> jussi01 at gmail dot com
<Lutin> jussi01: np, I'll do it tomorrow
<jussi01> Lutin: thanks a lot
<jussi01> :)
* jussi01 parties
<jussi01> Lutin: which timezone are you in?
<jussi01> (when is tomorrow?)
<Lutin> jussi01: UTC+2, france
<jussi01> Lutin: ok, Im in finland, so close in timzones :)
<Lutin> and tomorrow is 'after I get some sleep' :)
<jussi01> hehe ok :)
<Lutin> 'night guys
<jussi01> gnight
<chantra> night
<norsetto> night all
<norsetto> birthdaymuso: wait => Happy Birthday!
<ajmitch> the motu-uvf team will love bug 133933
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133933 in cheese "Can you update Cheese to 0.2.2 (many new sexy features)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133933
<DarkSun88> G'night.
<RAOF> Nice use of the "confirm your own bug"
<porthose> I am trying to setup subversion +svn-buildpackage.  svn-inject give this error svn_load_dirs file:///blah/blah/blah
<ScottK> ajmitch: We approved apt on cd and the changelog entry for that was "Rewrote the entire application"
<porthose> i get svn_load_dirs: not found
<ajmitch> ScottK: cool, I'll submit one of those then
<porthose> any ideas
<superm1> ScottK, i do have a motu-uvf related question.  persia originally had convinced me to do most of the mythbuntu-* packages with versioning 0.X-0ubuntu1 so that if an external project wanted to adapt them they could.  Consequently, even minor changes to these will need UVFe's no?
<superm1> er, s/\ no/,\ correct/
<ajmitch> porthose: I don't see any call to svn_load_dirs in the gutsy version, at least
<ajmitch> looks like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/svn-buildpackage/+bug/115874 though
<ajmitch> porthose: there's a good chance that the gutsy version can be installed as-is on feisty
<porthose> ajmitch: ok thank
<TurtleBeoulve> hello
<leonel> scottk  clamav 0.91.2 for dapper  worked fine
<ScottK2> leonel: Great.
<leonel> Scottk all that needed modification  was   clamav-base.postinst.in   to add your modificatios for   DetectPUA
<porthose> ajmitch: thanks for your help got svn-buildpackage working.
<ScottK2> A new deboostrap release solved the pbuilder problem I was having earlier today.
<_MMA_> Good to hear you got it sorted.
<ScottK2> Wasn't me, it was whoever fixed deboostrap and uploaded it.
<_MMA_> Ahh...
* _MMA_ is sitting back with he feelin' of accomplishment in using bzr and pushing his changes to LP. Maybe in a little Ill give packaging a go.
<leonel> Scottk do you told me to send you the debdiff  for dapper clamav ?
<ScottK2> leonel: Yes please, via email.
<leonel>  ScottK2 sent
<ScottK2> leonel: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> greetings
<porthose> ***porthose waves at hobbsee
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Is there any easy way to set kconfig defaults like there is for gconf defaults?
<Amaranth> In the packaging, I mean
<Amaranth> oh, maybe you didn't get that :)
<BirthdayMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Amaranth> Or, you know, any of the other KDE people that I don't remember :)
<ScottK2> Hello Hobbsee.
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Did you catch my question?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: nope
<Hobbsee> hey ScottK2
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: Is there any easy way to set kconfig defaults like there is for gconf defaults?
<Amaranth> In the packaging, I mean
<Hobbsee> which app?
<Amaranth> compiz
<Amaranth> we can do global defaults with it's own system but i want to do one option differently in each backend
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: if it's proper kde stuff, you could just do it with a compizrc file, and make it load that
<Amaranth> I know how to do it for gconf, dh_gconf
<Hobbsee> which gets put into /home/sarah/.kde/share/config
<Hobbsee> or the non-hardcoded version of that
<Amaranth> so no foo.kconfig-defaults file? :/
<Hobbsee> kdeglobals
<Hobbsee> ?
<Amaranth> for GNOME stuff if i create a debian/packagename.gconf-defaults file and call dh_gconf it'll generate and install the schema for me
<Amaranth> was hoping for some similar stuff with kconfig
<Hobbsee> usually we do it with kubuntu-default-settings and such
<Amaranth> hrm
<sn9_> when will mplayer work again on powerpc?
<Hobbsee> sn9_: when someone fixes it
<BirthdayMuso> sn9_: I'd say when someone who has powerpc can have a look. I might have a look later today if I get time, as I have powerpc as well.
<sn9_> the fix has been in launchpad since march
<sn9_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/78426/comments/7
<StevenK> BirthdayMuso: Many happy returns!
<BirthdayMuso> sn9_: In that case, it obviously needs testing. I can do that later.
<sn9_> the patch is against the packaged source as it was in march
<Hobbsee> BirthdayMuso!  Happy birthday!
<BirthdayMuso> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<ScottK2> Happy birthday BirthdayMuso
<Hobbsee> RAOF: consider this my warning.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: and do i want to even see that debdiff?
<ajmitch> heh
<sn9_> BirthdayMuso: fwiw, i only posted the patch in march after extensive testing on both i386 and powerpc
<BirthdayMuso> sn9_: Ok.
<BirthdayMuso> I don't doubt that there was testing, but if someone who can make the change and upload can test as well, its more likely to get in.
<sn9_> i don't see any reason why it would break amd64, but i never tried that. even if it did, 64-bit ubuntu has its share of breakage, anyway
<ScottK2> True, but amd64 is an officially supported arch and ppc is not.
<sn9_> well, _now_
<sn9_> mplayer never worked in 6.10
<ScottK2> Yeah, but now is what we're working on....
<sn9_> 6.10 was still the latest release when i posted the patch
<ScottK2> Well that was then and this is now, but there are a fair number of people with amd64, so maybe someone will test it..
<ScottK2> RAOF ^^^
<sn9_> anyway, "officially supported" really means the paid corporate support, or so we ppc users were originally told
<ScottK2> It does and everything in Universe is not supported.
<ScottK2> Or mabye nixternal.  I think he has amd64....
<nixternal> shh
<ScottK2> See, he admits it.
<nixternal> Host '3LockBox', running Linux 2.6.22-9-generic - Cpu0: AMD Athlon 2200 MHz; Up: 13d+2:17; Users: 1; Load: 0.00; Free: [Mem: 79/941 Mio]  [Swap: 863/863 Mio]  [/: 12464/14084 Mio]  [/boot: 93/122 Mio]  [/home: 37889/41301 Mio] ; Vpenis: 53.4 cm;
<nixternal> oops
<nixternal> hah, it doesn't say that it is 64bit though :)
<ScottK2> nixternal meet sn9_.  sn9_ meet nixternal.  nixternal sn9_ has an mplayer patch that makes it work on ppc that he'd like to get tested on a 64 bit arch before it's uploaded.
<nixternal> PPA
<ScottK2> That'll test if it'll build, but not if it works.
<ScottK2> Dunno if he's a LP beta tester or not.  I'm not.
<nixternal> I can test it if it is already built for amd64, but I still have yet to set up my pbuilders
<ScottK2> Ah.
<sn9_> the patch needs to be inspected for clean application to the current source, too
<ScottK2> sn9_: I suggest you see if anyone who is a LP beta tester will upload it to their PPA for you and then maybe nixternal can test it.
<ScottK2> You can do that, right?
<BirthdayMuso> I have access to my PPA.
<BirthdayMuso> I can patch, and build later fi people are interested.
<justinwray> Muso, I am going to go way out on a lim, and just sorta guess that it is your birthday.  If that is true, Happy Birthday, if not, please by all means flame me to hell.
<ScottK2> Or flame him anyway, just for fun.
<BirthdayMuso> justinwray: My nick wouldn't be BirthdayMuso if it wasn't my birthday.
<justinwray> Well, there is always that...
<BirthdayMuso> justinwray: Thanks.
<justinwray> BirthdayMuso: sarcasm ;-)
<justinwray> And you're welcome.
<BirthdayMuso> ScottK2: If you were to flame me, I'd just upload a new upstream version of a package just to defy you!
<BirthdayMuso> :)
* ajmitch flames away
<justinwray> Now someone want to help me with a hopefully quick question?  Just cause it's a birthday doesn't mean we all get to sit around does it.  (Please say yes)
* Hobbsee flames ajmitch
<ajmitch> yay!
<ajmitch> BirthdayMuso: happy birthday :)
<ajmitch> justinwray: just ask it
<ScottK2> BirthdayMuso: Not you, justinwray...
<BirthdayMuso> right
<BirthdayMuso> ajmitch: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> we eat people with questions.
<Amaranth> i think 'BirthdayAmaranth' is too big for a nick
<BirthdayMuso> heh
<BirthdayAmaranth> it work
<BirthdayAmaranth> s
<Amaranth> wow, i've seen into the future
<BirthdayMuso> haha
<Hobbsee> hah
<RAOF> BirthdayMuso: Happy birthday!
<ScottK2> My eyes ......
<BirthdayMuso> RAOF: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: www.myspace.com/creamier_oak
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Um, warning?
<justinwray> Okay, so I am working on packaging metasploit3, it will go into multiverse.  Anyhow, after working with upstream (and there not so loving license).  We have had all of our patches applied upstream.  The issue however, is the patches are applied to an SVN release, and not the tarball from the site.  I am trying to figure out how to package from SVN, as I cannot just update the source with SVN.
<BirthdayMuso> ROFL
<Hobbsee> RAOF: put in your app, else i'll have to do it for you :)
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Ah, OK. :)
<BirthdayMuso> Hobbsee: I agree.
<Hobbsee> BirthdayMuso: towhich?
<BirthdayMuso> Hobbsee: Lets just do it anyway.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: I've seen that before and do NOT intend to look again.
<Hobbsee> okay :)
<BirthdayMuso> Hobbsee: Recommending RAOF.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: haha.  ness is right though.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: You probably don't need to see the debdiff.  It's adding a recommends, restricting a suggests to the archs that the package suggested is actually built for, etc
<Amaranth> justinwray: checkout from svn and run make dist to get a tarball from it
<Hobbsee> 	25 Jun 2006 11:50 P
<Hobbsee> The longer you look at it, the less it bothers you... seriously!
<Amaranth> then mangle it a bit to make the version number you're going to use
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i'd prefer nto to see such crack :P
<RAOF> :)
<justinwray> Amaranth: Alright, thank you.
<Amaranth> s/make/match/
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: but it's a *lovely* page!
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: you really are quite deluded!
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: I am old and cranky and don't get you young folks at all.
<ScottK2> </bitter>
<Hobbsee> :P
* Hobbsee O.O
* AndyP looks puzzled
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: don't mind ScottK2, he hasn't had his dried frog pills today
<Hobbsee> ahhhh, right
<justinwray> Amaranth: I have it checked out, but make dist is no go...
<Amaranth> it doesn't use autotools?
<AndyP> Hobbsee: that page doesn't have enough marquees and animated gifs
<Hobbsee> AndyP: i know.  i didnt spend very long on it.
<justinwray> Amaranth: Nope, this is all Ruby..
<justinwray> Can, I hand archive?
<Amaranth> no idea then
<Hobbsee> AndyP: just enough to make it so that my deluded friends would enjoy it
<ScottK2> Amaranth: You mean Hobbsee's myspace page?
<Amaranth> i dunno ruby packaging
<Hobbsee> AndyP: seeing as they were insistent on how people should get myspace pages
<Amaranth> ScottK2: what?
<ScottK2> autotools
<ScottK2> Hobsee's myspace page needs autotools?
<justinwray> Amaranth: Well the directory structure is the same as what is in the current upstream tar, so can I hand archive it?
<AndyP> Hobbsee: well, only intellectuals have myspace pages, of course
<Amaranth> justinwray: just remove the svn junk
<ScottK2> AndyP: For some definition of the word intellectual, I would agree with that.
<Hobbsee> AndyP: er, hmmm.
* Hobbsee wonders who it was who sent her that background at 7am.
<Hobbsee> oh, Robotgeek.
<Hobbsee> he still deserves to be shot
<AndyP> heh, yes those kinds of backgrounds should be illegal
* Hobbsee updates the linux counter machiens
<Hobbsee> AndyP: but it's *lovely*!
<AndyP> Hobbsee: um, exactly, anything that lovely should be illegal
<xhaker> hey, anyone happens to know how can i mail an mbox file? git kernel patch
<ScottK> xhaker: An mbox file is just a text file.  You can attach it and mail it like any other attachment.
<xhaker> attach it? let me send to myself
<xhaker> :D
<xhaker> not cool
<xhaker> i'd like it inline..
<xhaker> git-format-patch -1
<AndyP> oh goody my fceu debian bugs have been fixed, that'll be a sync next time
<ScottK> I"ve just advocated http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=19 if there's a MOTU out there maybe looking for something to upload.
<superm1> ScottK, i got disconnected earlier this evening, since fabionne's logs don't show all of the time between, did you get a chance to answer my question?
<ScottK> I saw you were off and so didn't type an answer.
<superm1> ah okay
<ScottK> You could always do an ubuntu2
<superm1> do an ubuntu2 even though it would technically be a newer "upstream" version?
<ScottK> Just confine your changes to /debian and it's not.
<ScottK> I"ve just advocated http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=22 too.
<superm1> i guess they can be neatly packed into a cdbs/dpatch
<superm1> for the time being
<superm1> and then after the freeze is lifted move them back out
<ScottK> Exactly.
<superm1> that's what my gut feeling was sayign to do to go around it, but that felt hackish :)
<guest22> Can someone please point me towards some information on the recent changes (or just explain them) on http://revu.tauware.de/? It's been down for a week or two, finally came back up recently with all of the previous uploads deleted, and when I tried to re-upload my packages that were deleted I received email with the error "Rejected: Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution."
<ajmitch> guest22: revu had to be setup from scratch, and the error is from you uploading to ubuntu, not revu
<guest22> ajmitch: could you please explain what you mean about the error being from uploading to ubuntu? I uploaded the packages exactly as I did before the revu downtime.
<superm1> ScottK, regarding http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=22, i didn't actually build yet, but glancing at src it appears that those 2 manpages may not be installed
* ScottK looks again.
<superm1> since they aren't explicitly listed in debian/rules and there is no debian/manpages or debian/$NAME.manpages
<ScottK> superm1: Good catch.  Thanks.
<guest22> Is there some new requirement for upload to revu that didn't exist before the downtime?
<ScottK> No, there is not.
<ScottK> Is there any chance you left the revu out of your dput statement?
<ajmitch> no, but that error message only ever comes from launchpad
<guest22> ScottK and ajmitch: Thanks, it looks as if I omitted the revu from the dput command line - I just copied the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU, which also omit revu as the hostname for dput.
<ScottK> guest22: Those instructions also tell you to set default_host_main = revu in the conf file.
<ScottK> In which case you don't need it.
<guest22> Good point. Somehow, just using the command line worked previously - perhaps a dput package update modified the config file without me noticing. Thanks again.
<ScottK> It is possible that you accepted an update without paying attention.  If the packaging system wants to change a conf file that you've modified, it will prompt you.
<ScottK> It's not a big deal.  I'm pretty sure everyone has done it at least once.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<superm1> night ScottK
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey jsgotangco
<dholbach> hey highvoltage
<ajmitch> hi
<Hobbsee> hi spam, hi ajmitch
<\sh> moins
<LucidFox> Will PPA replace REVU?
<Hobbsee> not currently
<LucidFox> By the way, it's August 22. Why is PPA still in beta?
<Hobbsee> because it's still early in european time, most likely
<LucidFox> It's 06:44 UTC...
<highvoltage> hey dholbach
<ajmitch> the rollout will happen when it's ready, do you really think developers will be sitting around this early in the morning ready to roll out stuff?
<LucidFox> I see.
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: patience, patience.
* highvoltage is at the govtech expo this week, so responses might be a bit slow (and sabdfl is speaking now, so my attention is mostly there)
<ajmitch> hey highvoltage :)
<LucidFox> sabdfl? Shuttleworth?
<highvoltage> hey ajmitch
<highvoltage> LucidFox: yep
<LucidFox> sweet!
<norsetto> morning all
<norsetto> any u-u-s want to look at bug 133689 before gobby is moved to main?
<LaserJock> WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP
<LaserJock> norsetto: yep, dead
<norsetto> ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
<norsetto> he? oh!
<LaserJock> norsetto: good email to ubuntu-motu, btw
<norsetto> trying my best, thx
<norsetto> !ubotu
<norsetto> the bot seems to be down
<RAOF> Yes, sadly.
* RAOF kicks ubotu's corpse a bit.
<norsetto> God! you scared me to jump up like that
<norsetto> dholbach: re. bug 133736, you left it assigned to you because you are changing the maintainer field yourself, or you want me do it?
<jmg> !seen ubotu
<Hobbsee> jmg: it's holidaying in sweden.
<jmg>  it?
<jmg>  /ctcp GENDER ubotu
<LucidFox> jmg: GENDERLESS
<geser> morning
<norsetto> geser: hi! good news I hope?
<geser> my exam is in 4 hours, so I've some time left to make me nervous :)
<norsetto> geser: bah! you will pass with full marks
<jmg> geser: haha
<jmg> geser: is the exam on .deb packaging?
<viviersf> ajmitch, ping
<Lutin> hey there
<geser> jmg: no, on math: linear algebra
<dholbach> norsetto: I thought I'd assign it to me to see it on http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring/ as a bug that I'd like to take care of - if you'd rather want to assign it to you - that's fine with me too
<norsetto> dholbach: to whom is assigned is not a problem, I just wanted to know if you wanted me to fix the maintainer field
<jeromeg> dholbach: hello, for bug 131561 I still need a tester
<jeromeg> so I cqan't perform the uvf
<jeromeg> *can't
<dholbach> norsetto: ahhh ok - no, I though you'd do that
<dholbach> jeromeg: ok
<norsetto> dholbach: doing :-)
<dholbach> alright-o
<norsetto> dholbach: patch uploaded
<dholbach> super - will check it out later
<dholbach> thanks norsetto
<norsetto> dholbach: de nada
<RAOF> geser: Pity you're not in one of my tutorials.  They've got tests on tomorrow :)
* norsetto wonders what scott is doing at this ungodly hour
<ScottK> Not sleeping unfortunately.
<norsetto> ScottK: baby?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Just one of those days.
<StevenK> ScottK: Worried, or can't sleep?
<ScottK> Can't sleep.
<dharrigan> Hi everyone, anyone here from the medibuntu team?
<Lutin> yep
<dharrigan> Lutin, hi! Just wondering I need to recompile ffmpeg to include wma encoding support. Do you know if the package (as shipped) will allow me to do this?
<RAOF> dharrigan: No, you don't.  If the package as shipped doesn't encode to wma (why would you want to?), a recompile won't help.
<Lutin> (could be a disables compile-time flag, although I don't know if it even exists)
<Lutin> disabled*
<dharrigan> hmm, RAOF I need wma support since I'm transcoding divx to wmv and I can't get audio to play. ffmpeg will transcode the video, but not the audio.
<RAOF> I didn't think ffmpeg encoded to wmv, let alone wma :).  Any particular reason why wma is necessary?
<dharrigan> RAOF, yeah it encodes to wmv. Wma is necessary because my xbox (don't all hurl at once) will playback wmv's, but only if the audio is wma
<Lutin> isn't the xbox able to play non-wmv videos ?
<dharrigan> Lutin, nope (perhaps h264)
<dharrigan> xbox 360 that is, not the hacked original.
<RAOF> dharrigan: Surely it can play mpeg1 + layer2 audio?
<dharrigan> <shrug> I'll have to check on that one RAOF
<Q-FUNK> in the UVF instructions:   build-/install-log (as files)    pbuilder has the --logfile option.
<Q-FUNK> please rephrase.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: What's the problem?
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<Q-FUNK> build-/install-log is unclear
<Q-FUNK> I already know that pbuilder can produce logs, but not what part of it is relevant.
<ScottK> The whole thing.
<ScottK> Just attach the logfile that pbuilder produces and that's the needed build log.
<Q-FUNK> ok.  it talks about install log.  that sounds like a completely different thing.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Then when you install it, copy/paste the command line session from the install process.
<ScottK> Currently I don't think anyone is particularly worrying the install logs.
<ScottK> As we get closer to the bitter end, I imagine we will.
* jussi01 waves to everyone, especially lutin ;)
<Lutin> (note that you can add pbuilder hooks to test the package install without bothering doing all the stuff manually)
<Lutin> heya jussi01
<jussi01> heya Lutin, hows things?
<Lutin> jussi01: good :)
<Lutin> (will upload kdenlive/mlt++ in a couple of hours)
<jussi01> Lutin: thanks :) all the other dependencies are in the repos correct?
<Lutin> mlt++ (0.2.4) is still in binary NEW, although the version currently in the repos will be ok
<jussi01> excellent. ok, Ill be waiting for the upload/email :)
<toutouff> Hi, I've got a problem with pbuilder, could you help me ?
<toutouff> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34643/ <- here is the end of the output when I want to create
<jrib> toutouff: hmm ScottK had that same exact error yesterday I think...
<toutouff> oh
<toutouff> and did he solve t ?
<toutouff> it*
<ScottK> I did.
<toutouff> \o/
<ScottK> toutouff: There were new debchroot, dpkg, and dpkg-dev updates I got yesterday.
<ScottK> I'd imagine it was the debchroot update, but one of them fixed it for me.
<toutouff> err... my system is up-to-date
<ScottK> Are you sure that you might not have a stale mirror or something?
<toutouff> I have just the default mirrors and the ubuntustudio one in mi sources.list
<toutouff> my*
<toutouff> they all work grat
<toutouff> these updates, they are on gutsy or in feisty ?
<toutouff> because I'm tryins to create a gutsy environement on my feisty, maybe I should get these packages from gutsy ?
<coNP> hey xxxxx1
<xxxxx1> mornin'
<xxxxx1> hey coNP
<ScottK> toutouff: I'm on Gutsy. so it probabyl doesn't apply.
<ScottK> I'd reboot and try again.
<toutouff> I've tied three times
<toutouff> tried
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> If I were in your position I'd grab the source of the lastest gutsy version, compile it for Feisty, and try that.
<toutouff> of pbuilder ? debchroot ? dpkg ? dpkg-dev ?
<ScottK> debchroot
<toutouff> ok
<ScottK> Don't blame me if your computer catches fire and burns down your house as doing so is completely unsupported, but that's what I would do.
<toutouff> I try to install the debchroot package of gutsy on my feisty
<toutouff> hum, there is no package called debchroot for gutsy, not event for feisty
<ScottK> toutouff: Sorry...  debootstrap
<toutouff> oh, I already have the last version I think (downloaded yesterday from gutsy
<toutouff> yes, i have the last one
<toutouff> 1.0.2
<toutouff> (without this I can't set up a gutsy environement
<toutouff> )
<bigon> any chance https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-stream-engine/+bug/132912 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/farsight/+bug/132911 will get a uvfe?
<ScottK> toutouff: There is a 1.0.3.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/1.0.3
<ScottK> 1.0.2 was broken for me.  1.0.3 fixed it.
<toutouff> oh, thanks
<coNP> Does the FEP apply without any changes for Debian sync requests?
<ScottK> FEP??
<coNP> Sorry, I mean the FreezeExceptionProcess (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FreezeExceptionProcess)
<ScottK> coNP: If it's a new upstream version, yes.  If it's a new Debian revision only, no.
<coNP> thanks ScottK
<zachy> hello
<ScottK> Hello zachy
<zachy> hi ScottK
* toutouff hugs ScottK 
* toutouff smacks ScottK 
* toutouff loves ScottK 
<toutouff> It works !
<toutouff> :)
<jrib> ScottK: regarding reverend ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=24 ), debuild -S -sa seems to automatically recreate debian/pycompat.  I'm building on feisty if that matters
<ScottK> It does do that.  Good point.
<ScottK> Which is, of course, why you don't need to provide it.
<ScottK> That wasn't really a blocker.
<ScottK> It does no harm.
<jrib> let me try to delete the file and then run dput again without running debuild to keep it clean then
<jrib> which of course won't work because dput uploads the diff.gz... heh
<ScottK> jrib: Don't worry it.
<ScottK> The pyversions thing was the main change I wanted.
<jrib> alright
<ScottK> Either that or an XS-Python-Version in the control file is required.
<ScottK> jrib: Advocated.
<jrib> ScottK: thanks for all your help
<ScottK> No problem.  Thank you for contributing.
<ScottK> So, any other MOTUs out there, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=24 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=19 are looking for a 2nd ...
* coNP wants to become a MOTU but got stuck in the process...
<ScottK> coNP: Then go have a look at those and tell me if I missed something.
<\sh> does anyone run a xinerama install with gutsy using radeon driver?
<jeromeg> anyone from ubuntu-universe-sponsors to confirm a removal request :  bug 134037 ?
<coNP> ScottK: checked. Reverend seems to be allrighty. The output of Mustang is quite "hard to interpret", i.e., seems to be affected by some string formatting issue. Not sure that it is the fault but I would fix it either upstream or with a patch before it gets included in Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> jeromeg: hasnt appeared on the ML yet, for some reason
<coNP> s/Not sure that it is the fault/Almost sure that it is not the fault of the pacakger/
<ScottK> coNP: Please pastebin me the comment you'd put in if you were a MOTU and I'll add it.
<jeromeg> Hobbsee: ok, I just added uus when triaging, that must be why
<ryanakca> hmm. What package do I need as depends for http://pastebin.ca/666812 ? I've tried libmysqlclient15off & libmysqlclient15-dev already...
<Hobbsee> jeromeg: done
<jeromeg> Hobbsee: thx
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=22 looking for a 2nd advocate too.
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: i would have expected it to be the latter.
<AndyP> ryanakca: did you try both at the same time and check that the symbol it's looking for is provided by the library?
<ryanakca> AndyP: I've tried both together, and then each individually
<coNP> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34652/
<ScottK> looking
<mohammad> I have uploaded Quran Translations for accepted package zekr: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=34 I appreciate if a motu reviews it.
<coNP> Hobbsee: may I bug you with my favourite Openbox issue? :)
<Hobbsee> coNP: nope!  :P
<coNP> It is bug 119796. But I shouldn't even mention this, because I am not allowed to ... :)
<ScottK> coNP: Done.  Thanks.
<ScottK> mohammad: Am I going to find copyright problems in the package again?
<mohammad> ScottK: i have change the copyright status to "not permitted to distribute for commercial purpose" which I think satisfies the rules of multiverse
<AndyP> ryanakca: you are adding them as Build-Depends right?
<ScottK> OK.  Why is that?
<ScottK> I'm more concerned with the source of some of them.  The last time the first one I looked into clearly wasn't properly licensed.
<ScottK> mohammad: ^^^
<mohammad> http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/qmtintro.html (from where they were originally downloaded) described them as "not permitted to distribute for commercial purpose"
<ScottK> That's a good reason.
<mohammad> ScottK: Also I split the package for different langauges as you commented last time.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Actually I think that was Persia, but I agree.
<mohammad> ScottK: I have to prepare to go to the University. so see you then and thank you.
<ScottK> OK.
<coNP> dholbach: you are too quick :)
<dholbach> coNP: thanks ;-)
<ScottK> coNP:  371 files changed, 41140 insertions(+), 22649 deletions(-) is a lot.  Are you going to fix up the bugs?
<coNP> Which bugs?
<ScottK> The ones that get filed after your UVFe gets approved?
<coNP> You mean Openbox & Obconf?
<coNP> Yes. I intend to take care of these.
<norsetto> ScottK: coNP: we are contributors now not hopefuls (we lost all our hopes long ago....)
<ScottK> OK.  Please sign up as bug contact for the packages if you haven't.
<coNP> norsetto: are you also a MOTU-hopeful?
<coNP> MOTU-hopeless, even.
<ScottK> Apparently not anymore.
* ScottK thought MOTU-supplicant should be the title.
<coNP> ScottK: I am almost sure I am still a bug contact
<ScottK> OK.  Please make sure.
<norsetto> yeah, supplicant is indeed more to the point :-(
<coNP> Sorry, not for obconf, but I fixed that as well.
<coNP> ScottK: it seems it can be a nice team play with the Debian Maintainer(s)
<ScottK> Yes.  That's the best way when you can do it.
<AndyP> are syncs still being processed now or is everything frozen?
<dholbach> AndyP: they are, but you have to manually request them - no autosyncs anymore
<superm1> morning guys
<dholbach> AndyP: if they involve new upstream versions you need to follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<dholbach> hey superm1
<geser> AndyP: sync still can be filed but due to the tribe processing them seems to be on hold
<coNP> hiya superm1
<AndyP> dholbach, geser: great, thanks
<dholbach> de rien
<ScottK> Yes.  It'll all get accepted after the tribe freeze comes off.  Individual uploads/syncs for Universe can be manually pushed by the archive admins if desired as only Main is actually frozen right now.
<ScottK> coNP: I acked both your UVFe's based on I get to blame you if stuff isn't fixed.
<AndyP> good good, i just wondered if the sync i just requested was pointless, but it isn't :)
<coNP> ScottK: thanks.
<coNP> So you think it is not worth syncing?
<coNP> Or you are afraid of a bunch of unnoticed bugs?
<coNP> ScottK: how many ACKs do I need BTW?
<ScottK> coNP: It's a big change a little late in the process.  As long as someone will mind it, I'm OK.
<ScottK> Two.
<ScottK> There's a balance here between releasing with an obsolete version and accepting big updates late in the process.
<coNP> Actually I use (almost) these packages for some weeks now without any bugs.
<coNP> Am I wrong that https://wiki.kubuntu.org/FreezeExceptionProcess does not mention you need two ACKs?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: here's my vocal ack then.
<ScottK> coNP: "Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading." - Our procedure in the team is that the 2nd person sets it to confirmed.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For both packages?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: although i dont know why we're needing two
<Hobbsee> if hte last lot only had 1
<ScottK> OK.  Maybe that was just me.
<coNP> Thanks Hobbsee, ScottK :)
<ScottK> coNP: Confirmed.
<coNP> ScottK: Thanks. Now I only need to wait for some archive admin to do the sync, right?
<zul> yep
<ScottK> Oh, you wanted me to do the MOTU bit to it too.  I suppose I can do that.
* coNP is still not a MOTU :(
<coNP> Not that I could not subscribe someone, but rules are rules :)
<ScottK> Yeah.  That's done too.
<ScottK> Now
<coNP> Thanks again.
<geser> dholbach: I just realised that a MOTU meeting is scheduled for friday 12:00 UTC. Do you manage to handle the Q&A session and the MOTU meeting at the same time?
<dholbach> arg arg arg arg :-(
<dholbach> thanks geser for noticing
* AndyP checks the agenda
<AndyP> shouldn't be too difficult :)
<dholbach> geser: I guess I'll try - and hopefully that will be enough for me to remember to check next time
<dholbach> if you announce a meeting next time, please keep fridge-devel@lists in the loop
<dholbach> it's on their calendar now, ok
<coNP> dholbach: may I bug you with my MOTU appliation? I guess only one more vote is needed, but I was told crimsun is not going to be around for some more time. Or should I be more patient? :-)
<dholbach> coNP: if it's just that one vote missing, I'll forward it to the TB in a sec
<mok1> ScottK: I am fixing the mustang output this very moment. Good point.
<ScottK> mok1: Thank coNP.  It was his suggestion.
<ScottK> coNP: Thanks.
<superm1> coNP, you going to beat me to MOTU :) ?
<coNP> Depends on ... :)
<mok1> ScottK: I should perhaps add the detailed info about the btk-core manpages in changelog? Perhaps reviewers further downstream will also think it is a mistake...
<ScottK> mok1: I put your response to my comment on REVU.  I think that's good enough.  If you end up updating the package for some other reason then I'd say yes.
<mok1> ScottK: OK.
<Lutin> jussi01: around ?
<bmm> A debian package for the boswars game is under development, but I have no idea how sponsoring is going or when it will reach the repositories and come into ubuntu. Should I, in this stage of gutsy development, still post the package to revu or should I just wait for it to come into ubuntu and patch it?
<jussi01> Lutin: Im here
<ScottK> bmm: How do you think it will come to Ubuntu if you don't post it to REVU?
<jussi01> ScottK: could it not be synced?
<ScottK> From where?
<bmm> ScottK: it's going to be part of debian, because the package is already under devlopment there. So then it will get into ubuntu when it get's synced with debian, right?
<ScottK> Yes, but almost certainly not for Gutsy.
<ScottK> It's have to get into Debian, through Debian NEW, and be synced before 30 Aug.
<ScottK> Debian NEW generally takes longer than that.
<Lutin> jussi01: kdenlive uploaded \o . try adding deb http://e17.dunnewind.net/ubuntu gutsy test to you sources.list and see if you can install
<bmm> ScottK: so it would be ok to post it to REVU then?
<jussi01> Lutin: ok, trying now
<Riddell> siretart: my old revu password doesn't work
<ScottK> bmm: Sure with appropriate version/distro changes for Ubuntu.  Just be aware that unless the package is in good shape the odds aren't good given # of reviewers/available time.
<ScottK> Riddell: No one's will, you have to recover a new one.
<Riddell> ScottK: how do I do that?
<mok1> ScottK: Revised version of mustang uploaded. Thx!!!
* Riddell spots recover
<ScottK> Yeah.  That one.
<ScottK> mok1: Great.
<jussi01> Lutin: it gives me a break
<Lutin> jussi01: ?
<jussi01> Lutin: when I select it in adept to install, it says BREAK (install)
<Lutin> jussi01: no way to have something more verbose ?
<jussi01> Lutin: fyi, I am using gutsy, if that is a problem
<Lutin> so am I
<Lutin> .w 9
<Lutin> err.
<jussi01> Lutin: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34668/
<Lutin> jussi01: lol. then, what does it say when you try to install libmlt++0.2.4 ?
<jussi01> lutin I installed that but it then gave me:
<jussi01> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<jussi01>   kdenlive: Depends: libmlt++0.2.4 (>= 0.2.4) but 0.2.4~svn1024-0ubuntu0.1 is to be installed
<Lutin> rofl. seems silly
<jussi01> yeah
<jussi01> Lutin: I got to walk my dog, be back in a little while
<Lutin> actually makes sense...
<Lutin> *sigh* . guess I have to fix it in the archive
<ScottK> mok1: If you want to do another upload to clean up the btk package based on Riddell's comments, I'll upload it to the archive after.
<mok1> ScottK: Working on jriddel's comments this very minute
<ScottK> mok1: Great.
<ScottK> I just advocated the new mustand upload.
<ScottK> mustand/mustang
<mok1> It will be exiting to see if it makes it!
<mok1> Lintian is pretty stupid btw, I had XCSB-Original-Maintainer and it didn't recognize it :-)
<Hobbsee> mok1: it's from debian.
<Hobbsee> mok1: they dont use X-O-M stuff
<Hobbsee> mok1: which is why it also complains about bad version number, and unknown changelog entry gutsy
<mok1> Ah
<mok1> But it
<mok1> 's good with XSBC- :-)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The Gutsy Lintian doesn't whine about that stuff I don't think.
<Hobbsee> oh neat, someone's updated it
<ScottK> That or I just don't see it anymore.
<Hobbsee> no, someone's done it
<mok1> ScottK: btk-core fixed wrt.  jriddel's comments, and uploaded...
<ScottK> Great.  I'll have a look in a few minutes.
<kdubois> is the best way to start, just to try to resolve bugs on launchpad?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would have have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=36.  I'm pretty sure it's in good shape.  Just needs a 2nd ack.
<Hobbsee> i'm so *not*
<ScottK> OK.
<Hobbsee> it's 2.30am in the morning
<ScottK> Perfect.
<ScottK> But, OK>
<ScottK> .
<ScottK> kdubois: That's an excellent way to start.
<ScottK> There is, however, more than one way to do it.
<kdubois> other ways being?
<ScottK> Package new software (although it's very late in the Gutsy cycle for that).
<ScottK> Triage bugs.
<ScottK> Merge updates from Debian.
<kdubois> i think i'll do some bug hunting to start off with
<kdubois> thanks though
<kdubois> i heard that there's a Q+A planned for friday?
<khermans> i have unpacked a deb to get control/data, then modified them, and I want to put the modified control.tar.gz back into the original dab
<khermans> deb
<khermans> i initially converted the package from RPM
<khermans> since this is a closed source product i am trying to run on ubuntu
* ScottK would suggest finding an open source alternative, but no doubt you already thought of that.
<khermans> ScottK, no no no, has nothing to do with that
<khermans> ScottK, is there some way to repack back to deb?
<jussi01> Lutin: sorry, Im back now
<khermans> the inverse of 'ar -x'
<ScottK> khermans: Dunno.  I
<khermans> :-(
<ScottK> I've never had to do it.
<ScottK> I'd suggest man ar as a place to start though.
<khermans> ScottK, who would know?
<ScottK> Hard to say.  It's not a normal thing we have to do.
<Lutin> jussi01: ok. my fault....fix uploaded to the archive. if you can, please rebuild kdenlive against the new mlt++ once the source package hits the archive
<khermans> ScottK, oooh mayb \e the r option
* ScottK still doesn't know.
<khermans> didnt know if this was a thing people did
<khermans> thx
<jussi01> Lutin: ok, when can I expect that?
<Lutin> jussi01: dunno, depends on seb128 :] 
<jussi01> Lutin: hehe, ok. so I just have to wait. :(
<Lutin> jussi01: yep. I could rebuild them, but I won't have anough time today
<khermans> ScottK, ar r foo.deb control.tar.gz worked
<ScottK> Great.
<khermans> :-)
<khermans> thx
<khermans> heh, ok now is there a stardard way of dealing with bad prerm scripts?
<khermans> i cannot get apt to remove, i know there is astardard way to do this
<jussi01> Lutin: thats fin
<jussi01> e
<Lutin> jussi01: do we lack _that_ much a non-linear video editor ? I got almost every day a 'when will kdenlive be available' mail
<pygi> Lutin, there are others in development
<pygi> pitivi
<Lutin> pygi: seems nice :)
<khermans> uh oh :-)
<khermans> i accidentally did an rm -rf  on /var/lib/dpkg/info
<khermans> am i screwed!?!
<khermans> lol
<sn9_> pygi, Lutin: pitivi was non-functional before gutsy
<pygi> sn9_, because Edward did a lot of work lately, I know =)
<pygi> well, not really non-functional, but ...
<sn9_> any chance it could get backported to feisty?
<pygi> sn9_, probably not, dependencies
<sn9_> i know, hence the effort required
<sn9_> somebody on the forums claimed to get the new version working on feisty using checkinstall
<pygi> sn9_, checkinstall is not too good imho =) Well, is fine for personal usage
<sn9_> i wasn't suggesting that
<sn9_> i mean, it suggests it can be done
<pygi> sn9_, sure it can be done =)
<sn9_> afaik, checkinstall ignores deps, so how is it that someone got around the dep problems using it?
<pygi> sn9_, well, they just get problems when using it with older revisions of gst
<pygi> sn9_, or gnonlin
<Lutin> oh, pitivi is python . ouch
<pygi> Lutin, python rocks!
<effie_jayx> :D
<Lutin> pygi: yeah, it rocks. it loves eating memory too :}
<pygi> Lutin, be shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
<superm1> mmm memory.....
<pygi> Lutin, make it more efficient, I believe python upstream will welcome sane patches =)
<Lutin> heh. I fear it's far beyond my skills
<siretart> Riddell: right, because we started from 0. database has been reset
<ScottK> siretart: He got it sorted.  He even reviewed stuff.
<siretart> ah, I see
* AndyP wonders why he just received an email saying kid3 failed to build on lpia
<geser> AndyP: because you uploaded the last kid3 and lpia tried to build it now
<ScottK> Or any kid3 since they set up the buildd perhaps.
<AndyP> geser: ok... was i meant to have made it build on lpia? i know nothing about it
<ScottK> AndyP: I wouldn't worry about it now.
<AndyP> ScottK: oh i'm not worried, just curious about how the whole thing works
<ScottK> Well they are still, AFAIK, working through some basic issues about getting a new arch up and running.
<ScottK> I think there's probably an Ubuntu Mobile Edition IRC channel or mailing list if you are really interested.
<AndyP> maybe i'll research into it when i've got more time on my hands
<geser> AndyP: the IRC channel is #ubuntu-mobile
<AndyP> geser: thanks
<tonyyarusso> Since PPC is no longer an officially supported architecture, but would be "very nice" if things still built on it, and whereas a) I don't have a PPC machine and b) LP PPA accounts won't build unsupported architectures, is there any more efficient auto-build system that somebody could set up for easy testing that would be any better than just getting a friendly person here to give you SSH access to their box (what I've done so far) ?
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: available for a DaD bug report?
<ScottK> The REPORT for the currently pending Clamav merge says no problems, but there is in fact a conflict shown in the ubuntu1 patch.
<Adri2000> ScottK: http://dad.dunnewind.net/clamav/REPORT ? it says there is a conflict
<Adri2000>   C  debian/clamav-base.postinst.in
<Adri2000> or you mean that: "No problems were encountered during the merge" ?
<ScottK> Adri2000: Didn't read far enough.  Yeah.  That's what confused me.
<ScottK> I saw that and thought WTF when I saw the conflict in the patch.
<Adri2000> sure it's not very clear, but it means that the new source package has been successfully created (which is not the case sometimes when there are conflicts in debian/control for example)
<ScottK> I see that now that I read on down.
<ScottK> I guess debian/control is where I've always had conflicts before.
<nixternal> TheMuso: hey, Intel audio is back and working as it should, ie. muting and volume up/down with master and not pcm
<nixternal> however, you can barely hear the audio now...kind of like Dapper and Edgy days
<mok0> ping
<xxxxx1> pong
<ScottK> pop
<ScottK> mok0: btk is uploaded.
<mok0> Cool
<mok0> What happens next?
<ScottK> mok0: It's in the NEW queue (with kssh) waiting for archive admin review.  Once they accept it, it goes into the archives for building, then the binary goes back to NEW again, once it gets accepted it gets published and it's done. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<mok0> ScottK: So there are still some stumbling blocks!
<mok0> What happens if it doesn't compile on all platforms?
<ScottK> Well the big check is the archive admin check of the NEW source.  That's mostly for copyright/license issues.
<mok0> OK. That's what I find the most difficult...
<ScottK> If it doesn't compile on all archs, then you fix it and we upload ubuntu2.
<mok0> I can only check i386 myself
* ScottK too.
<ScottK> Starting soon LP will have a personal package archive feature available (it's available to beta testers now) and you'll be able to do i386 and (I think) AMD64 on it.
<mok0> I sent an email to become registered, but never got a reply :(
<ScottK> Hmmm.  I've never signed up.
<ScottLij> How does one get involved in the open source community?  I've read some MOTU pages but I don't see how to get a mentor(s)
<mok0> ScottLij: Can you program?
<ScottLij> mok0: Yes, I know C++, Java, and some basic php, c#, and python
<AndyP> ScottLij: did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor ?
<ScottK> A formal mentor is NOT required.  You can just show up and start doing stuff.
<AndyP> the more Scotts the merrier :)
<zul> ScottK: i would checkout the todo and start cracking
<ScottK> zul: I would check on your tab completion.
<zul> ScottK: yeah i know I was half asleep when I was looking at it
<mok0> zui: does that mean we are talking to your subconcience?
<zul> maybe
<zul> maybe none of you exist
<AndyP> that would be most inconvenient
<mok0> The problem with fixing bugs is that they might never come through
<Nafallo> zul: you could get my existance verified those days :-)
<zul> Nafallo: meh..its called a lack of sleep
<Nafallo> :-P
<zul> anyways...im going home to sleep
<ScottK> mok0: What do you mean by "Never come through"?
<mok0> Uhm, I fixed a (trivial) bug in python-biopython version 1.42, but I was told that it was fixed in gutsy and would not be updated in feisty.
<mok0> gutsy has version 1.43 where the bug is fixed)
<AndyP> that's just a problem with fixing trivial bugs in stable releases :)
<mok0> Yes, but it was serious enough, because if you had biopython installed, the error message popped up every time python is invoked by dpkg
<ScottK> Ah.
<mok0> So although it was a learning experience, it is not motivating that bug fixes are not distributed as updates
<AndyP> mok0: there's always backports...
<mok0> AndyP: You mean it goes into edgy backports?
<ScottK> Also we are nearing the end of the development part of Gutsy.  From next week on out the focus is bug fixing for Gutsy.
<mok0> ScottK: Aha. When does the devel phase end?
<AndyP> mok0: no, feisty-backports if you wanted the gutsy fix in feisty (but as ScottK said, your efforts are better spent on gutsy at the moment)
<ScottK> We are pretty much there.
<soothsayer> Where do updates of packages incubate before they are released to repositories?
<ScottK> We are past upstream version freeze and feature freeze now.
<coNP> !schedule | mok0
<ubotu> mok0: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<ScottK> soothsayer: For Gutsy they go directly there.
<mok0> I see. So wrt. to e.g. kssh, it will not be in gutsy?
<ScottK> For released distros they go to *-proposed for testing.
<ScottK> mok0: It will.
<soothsayer> ScottK: "Fix committed" in Launchpad implies that the updated package should be available in repos immediately?
<ScottK> soothsayer: No.  That would be fix released.
<ScottK> Everything in NEW on 30 Aug will go into Gutsy unless rejected.
<mok0> Wow. Still a lot to learn :-)
<ScottK> So you have until 30 Aug to get stuff INTO the NEW queue.
<soothsayer> ScottK: Where do "fix committed" packages go?
<ScottK> soothsayer: For a released version "Fix Committed" generally means it's in the *-proposed repository for testing.
<soothsayer> ScottK: And for Gutsy?
<mok0> ScottK: I have a few packages pending upstream action
<ScottK> It also covers the few hours between when it's uploaded and when it's published/built.
<mok0> ScottK:  Perhaps you remember "kaksi" and "wulfware"
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> mok0: If you can (and you want them in Gutsy) I'd repack the tarballs and upload them now.
<mok0> ScottK: I sent a whole bunch of patches to the wulfware guy, but he is busy atm.
<mok0> ScottK:  I could do that...
<ScottK> You've seen how many people we have doing reviews, so time is getting short.
<mok0> ScottK:  Yes I know. I have also seen that you have been very productive!
<ScottK> I've been working on a database thing the last couple of days so I have some time between runs while I wait for it to crash.
<mok0> What about the "bug based" reviewing that Daniel outlined on the mailing list? Will that take over from REVU?
<ScottK> I have no idea.
<ScottK> Myself I never look at the new package bugs.
<ScottK> I just look at what's on REVU.
* norsetto thought that the Q&A session was on Friday
<ScottK> It is.
* ScottK also thinks anytime is a good time for questions and maybe norsetto shouldn't give people trouble about asking.
<norsetto> hehehe
<norsetto> people is too eager to complain and critic I must say
<mok0> norsetto's annoyed at mok for giving away his exam question yesterday :-)
<mok0> norsetto: people ARE ;-)
<norsetto> mok0: and on top of that you broke my dbgless phone....
<soothsayer> ScottK: Are the source packages on the build server publically accessible? Can I get the source and build it myself before it goes 'fix released'?
<mok0> norsetto: ... when you aimed it at my head...
<ScottK> soothsayer: Yes.  Look for the package on Launchpad and you can get it from there if no where else.
<soothsayer> ScottK: Thaks
<soothsayer> ScottK: Thanks
<ScottK> soothsayer: Is it's in *=proposed you can enable that repository and get the binary.
<ScottK> soothsayer: Look for the bug the upload fixes and comment on if it works for you because that's what get's it released to *-updates.
<mok0> If there is no mention of license in a software package, does that imply it is in the public domain?
<soothsayer> mok0:
<ScottK> No
<soothsayer> mok0: No
<mok0> What is it, then?
<soothsayer> Unknown. You have to find out
<ScottK> mok0: Copyright is inherent and so without an explicit permission to distribute, there is no permission to distribute.
<ScottK> That's one of the true beauties of the GPL.
<mok0> The software is distributed by the author
<mok0> without any notice of copyright
<ScottK> Right, but he has to give you right to furhter distribute or you don't have it.
<ScottK> In the US anyway, since 1975, and I think elsewhere too, copyright notice has not been required.
<mok0> Aha.
<ScottK> When people whine about GPL restrictions not being applicable to their distrbution of GPL software, they just argued they have no right to distribute at all.
<mok0> This author has not worked on the software since 1998. I thought of adopting it and releasing under GPL
<ScottK> You have to ask the author.
<mok0> ScottK: If I can find him...
<ScottK> Yep.  That can be the tricky part.  Or the organization is maybe they own the rights.
<mok0> This guy was at Berkeley
<mok0> Perhaps it's a BSD license then
<soothsayer> mok0: You can't just assume, however much you might want to
<mok0> soothsayer:  Yeah I know... just pondering...
<ScottK> You might ask the department he was in for permission.
<mok0> ScottK:  Good idea. I will get to work on that.
<nixternal> MOTUS!!!! Just for you, by me! -> http://www.zug.com/pranks/faoschwarz/index02.html
<nixternal> work friendly fyi
<soothsayer> mok0: You are probably going to have trouble if he did the work for the University
<soothsayer> mok0: I would try to get contact information from the University if you can't find it anywhere else but don't try to get permission from them right away.
<soothsayer> Universities have 'technology transfer' departments these days. They are businesses looking to monetize anything they can.
<AndyP> nixternal: omg poniez!!</obligatory>
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> mmmm. pony.....
<mok0> soothsayer:  Also Berkeley?
<ScottK> Some more than others.
<ScottK> More so than it used to be.
<ScottK> It never hurts to ask.
<soothsayer> mok0: I can't speak for Berkeley specifically.
<soothsayer> mok0: I doubt they are exceptional
<AndyP> my dissertation project is going to be GPL'd... the only open source project in my year, i think. go me.
<norsetto> mok0: out of curiosity, what is this software for?
<nixternal> haha, I just read the text on that page that goes with the picture
<soothsayer> AndyP: Did you get University permission?
<mok0> soothsayer: the package is in Fink ... :-/
<mok0> http://neurovision.berkeley.edu/software/A_Cgraph.html
<mok0> http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/cgraph
<ScottK> Here's a lovely error message, "close failed: [Errno 0]  Success"
<AndyP> soothsayer: as good as... it's an "industry partnership" that i'm doing with Red Hat
<soothsayer> AndyP: Nice.
<AndyP> soothsayer: yeah, i'm quite happy about it
<mok0> soothsayer: the webpage says: "The Cgraph Library source code, examples, and documentation are in the public domain"
<mok0> ... but there is no statement of such in the tarball.
<soothsayer> mok0: Except utils direcotry
<mok0> soothsayer:  there is nothing I need in there
<ScottK> mok0: If it says it on the web page you can probably repack the tarball with a copy of the web page or something.
<soothsayer> mok0: I don't think there is a rule that a license has to be in the tarball
<ScottK> soothsayer: Actually there is.
<soothsayer> mok0: Check with debian-legal, or Ubuntu equivalent if it exists
<ScottK> That's the first thing that will get you bounced by the archive admins.
<ScottK> mok0 has been burned by this already, so he know.
<mok0> soothsayer: Oh? my package kssh was rejected because of lack of license texts in the upstream tarball.
* ScottK too for that matter.
<soothsayer> ScottK: I wasn't talking about packages you submit to Ubuntu, I meant from a copyright policy perspective
<ScottK> mok0 is getting very good at repacked tarballs.
<ScottK> Oh.  Sure.
<mok0> So, assuming the software is public domain, I could re-release it GPL'ed, yes?
<ScottK> That's why I said he could repack it and add the information.
<ScottK> Public domain is public domain.  No license required.
<soothsayer> mok0: Anyway, I can't believe that this package is the best thing available at doing what you need
<mok0> Yeah, I find I have to repack everything I've looked at
<mok0> soothsayer: It's used by another program I need, and I don't care to change that other program.
<soothsayer> mok0: Ah okay
<mok0> soothsayer:  In fact, it's _included_ in the other software, but I'd rather separate it. Perhaps that's a bad idea...
<ScottK> man-di: If you haven't seen this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-August/001503.html I'd imagine you'd be interested.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-23
<tonyyarusso> How do I change the primary e-mail address associated with my GPG key?
<ajmitch> gpg --edit-key
<ajmitch> use 'uid' to select the one you want as primary, 'primary' to set it as such, then 'save'
<tonyyarusso> Oof, still confused.  Muddling through the man page now.
<tonyyarusso> The deal is I used to have tonyyarusso@earthlink.net as the address, then later added the @ubuntu.com one, and thought it was first.  Tried to build a package and got an error that I couldn't sign it, secret key not available.
<tonyyarusso> err, meanwhile, which file does pbuilder use for it's apt sources?
<broonie> tonyyarusso: nothing cares which ID is primary for signing packages. Are you sure that the plain text form of your name matches?
<broonie> /etc/pbuilderrc
<tonyyarusso> broonie: Not necessarily?
<tonyyarusso> I'm dealing with key 1C948BF4, if you want to take a look.
<broonie> You need to check it matches what's in the changelog entry (and so on) unless you're explicitly supplying the key to sign with.
<tonyyarusso> It does match that, yes
<broonie> What happens with "gpg --edit 'Anthony Yarusso <tonyyarusso@ubuntu.com>'"?
<tonyyarusso> broonie: The current info is displayed and I'm left with a Command> prompt.
<tonyyarusso> Says "Secret key is available", btw
<broonie> Right, that's what I was trying to check.
<broonie> Were you attempting to build with pbuilder and have pbuilder do teh sig by any chance?
<tonyyarusso> Yes.
<tonyyarusso> Actually, wait.
<broonie> Ah. debsign on the built output should work; I've never tried to get pbuilder to do what you want.
<tonyyarusso> I was _going_ to move on to pbuilder, but actually got the error when running 'sudo dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot'
<broonie> Don't use sudo.
<broonie> Just run dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<broonie> a) you shouldn't do the non-root bits of the build as root
<broonie> b) running as root ought to make gpg not find your keyring.
<tonyyarusso> oh, duh
<tonyyarusso> a) that's what fakeroot is for
<tonyyarusso> b) clearly my key isn't in root's home directory
<tonyyarusso> broonie: Mental lapse - I knew that on some level :P
<tonyyarusso> (ie, I've taken a break from packaging since April, so I'm just now remembering)
<tonyyarusso> Thanks!
<tonyyarusso> I still have no idea why pbuilder is downloading from the Canadian mirror though - weird
<broonie> Check /etc/pbuilderrc, it says which mirror to use.
<AndyP> when you change stuff in your pbuilderrc you need to use --override-config (i think) when you next update
<tonyyarusso> that could be it
<tonyyarusso> Chances are that I did create it with that mirror
<broonie> Can't remember what the default is but with Debian it's the ever helpful ftp.jp.debian.org :P
<tonyyarusso> Gah.  Still have problems with no sudo nonsense.
<tonyyarusso> dpkg-source: building kompozer in kompozer_0.7.10-0ubuntu1.dsc signfile kompozer_0.7.10-0ubuntu1.dsc
<tonyyarusso> gpg: skipped "Tony Yarusso <tonyyarusso@ubuntu.com>": secret key not available
<tonyyarusso> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<tonyyarusso> Oh, doh
<ajmitch> that's not the same name as your key
<tonyyarusso> Cleartext mismatch "Anthony" vs "Tony"
* tonyyarusso sighs
<ajmitch> silly people
<ajmitch> you'd think you'd know your own name :)
<bryce> is there a way, given a .debdiff, to generate the resulting .dsc and .deb?
<ajmitch> bryce: apart from applying the debdiff with patch, and rebuilding the source & binary packages?
<tonyyarusso> ajmitch: you'd think :P  Problem is, I never go by it, but was told my key needs to be "proper"
<bryce> ajmitch: yeah
<ajmitch> bryce: I think doing the build normally is your only option
<AndyP> tonyyarusso: -k might make your life easier :)
<bryce> ah ok
<bmm> I can't comment on REVU currently (password=None) but I've done an upload for the boswars package and that should pop up there in the near future.
<bmm> Will it still get there if my password isn't working?
<TheMuso> As long as your key is in the revu keyring, yes.
<TheMuso> And, you should also be able to retrieve your password.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Are you up for reviewing new packages?
<bmm> TheMuso: password retrieval returns "None" as password, but my upload has made it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42
<ScottK> There are a couple that I advocated earlier that I think are in good shape.
<ScottK> bmm: If you have a comment you want posted, I'll be glad to post it for you.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Just hilight me with the package names, and I'll see if I can get to them later.
<bmm> ScottK: no comment on my upload so far ;-)
<TheMuso> Got an issue with another package I want to see if I can address at this point.
<nixternal> TheMuso: did you see my sound complaint earlier? since you are listed as admin now for the sound stuff and crimsun is in hiding, oh man I had to bug you :D
<TheMuso> nixternal: I am admin of the audio team, but it doesn't mean I am the alsa guy.
<superm1> i thought crimsun proposed Hobbsee to take over alsa stuff? :)
<nixternal> hehe, well then, get to pointing :)
<ScottK> TheMuso: mustang http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=36 and reverend http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=33
<ScottK> superm1: I don't think so.
<TheMuso> ScottK: No need for URLs, just package names is fine.
<ScottK> TheMuso: OK.  Those are there too.
<superm1> ScottK, well at least as a joke crimsun had one evening, hence the :) at the end
<TheMuso> ok
<ScottK> OK
* tonyyarusso starts spewing profanity..
<ScottK> Maybe nixternal will review and upload them in the meantime.
* nixternal joins in with tonyyarusso 
<bmm> TheMuso: I'm going to sleep now, but if you are going to be up for some time to come and have the time, feel free to review boswars http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42
<tonyyarusso> I can't remember my GPG key passphrase
<jmg> Uh oh
<nixternal> ScottK: sitting in class right now
<ScottK> Yes, and?
<bmm> TheMuso: keep up the good work and thanks for the info.
<bmm> Bye
<nixternal> I can't upload, I don't have intarweb access :)
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> You advocate and I'll upload then.
<nixternal> that was a joke btw, I wouldn't be here talking if I didn't have access now would I :)
<ScottK> Understand.  Just feeling pushing.
<tonyyarusso> There's no way to recover that is there?
<nixternal> you know, instructors need to replace "Hello World" with something new
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: It wouldn't be a very secure system if you could.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: exactly
<tonyyarusso> :(
<nixternal> I swear, out of the 25+ coding classes I have taken, everyone starts out with Hello World, and no matter the language, it is stupid!
<jmg> nixternal: "omghi2u!"?
<nixternal> haha ya!
<tonyyarusso> Luckily, I did have the foresight to save what I need to revoke it.
<ScottK> Yes.  That's good.
<nixternal> s/"Hello World"/"Windows Sucks"/
<Jazzva|away> nixternal: Goodbye, cruel world? :)
<nixternal> that is what I have done for everyone
<nixternal> damn stickers on the lid of my lappy give me away everytime though
<sn9_> printf("Welcome to The Foo Bar! May I take your order?");
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I have to admit, this instructor is the first I have seen use "foo" and "bar" in his examples
<ScottK> Older instructor?  Or maybe a true hacker in disguise.
<ScottK> This is fun.  Fix the bug (maybe) run the script, crush the database for a couple a minutes to get the data, discover I didn't fix the bug, rinse, repeat.
* tonyyarusso goes into full-bore thinking mode to jog memory
<RAOF> Someone needs to hit pulseaudio with a "please don't thrash the soundcard when idle" stick.  Having it enabled increases my power usage by 10%.
<LaserJock> wahoo, it works
<LaserJock> anybody know how to get wide screen resolutions in feisty?
<sn9_> same way you get any other resolutions
<RAOF> Not very helpful, but I just enabled them in dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg :)
<LaserJock> heh
<sn9_> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<RAOF> LaserJock: You probably have an intel card or something, right?
<LaserJock> it is an intel card
<sn9_> i don't type that fast
<LaserJock> and its 800x480 resolution
<LaserJock> right now I get 640x480
<sn9_> 800x480? i have only seen that on toshiba laptops
<RAOF> LaserJock: You may need that 810resolution package, or something.
<bryce> LaserJock, does System -> Administration -> Screens and Graphics not do it?
<TheMuso> 915resolution it is called.
<RAOF> bryce: On Feisty?
<TheMuso> I think
<bryce> RAOF, oh Feisty
<LaserJock> bryce: no, it only gives me 640x480
<bryce> nevermind, yeah for Feisty -i810 + 915resolution is the std approach
<sn9_> is it a toshiba laptop?
<LaserJock> no
<bryce> there is a Feisty backport of the -intel  2.x driver around someplace
<RAOF> bryce: Incidentally, displayconfig-gtk looks awesome.
<LaserJock> Intel ClassmatePC
<sn9_> oh
<sn9_> that might not use the i810 driver
<LaserJock> it's an Intel 915 card
<bryce> RAOF, cool
<bryce> RAOF, I just hope it doesn't bork up people's xorg.conf too badly
<RAOF> bryce: I'll see how it handles nvidia + multiple monitors tonight :)
<bryce> :-)
<Amaranth> what's what?
<RAOF> It's a pity that nvidia decided that the "refresh rate" field was their plaything, thought.
<LaserJock> ok so I just install 915resolution and it then?
<Amaranth> RAOF: disable dynamic twinview
<Amaranth> we should do that by default in restricted-manager, actually
<RAOF> Amaranth: But I kinda want the ability to plug in monitors and it just work
<RAOF> Amaranth: Doesn't disabling dynamic twinview break that?
<Amaranth> they should support xrandr :P
<Amaranth> i dunno
<bryce> no, you need the -intel 2.x driver to get xrandr support
<RAOF> I might test tonight.  If it still works, +1 to disable by default!
<Amaranth> nvidia is waiting for xrandr 1.3, iirc
<minghua> LaserJock: If you have xserver-xorg-video-intel driver installed, you shouldn't need 915resolution.  If you have -i810, then yes, 915resolution should help.
<Amaranth> bryce: nvidia supports xrandr, just not 1.2
<bryce> ah
<RAOF> Amaranth: ???.  What's going to change in 1.3?
<Amaranth> something with multiple GPUs or something
<Amaranth> i dunno exactly
<bryce> btw, Xorg is going to put their xrandr 1.2 stuff for -ati soonish.  I'm hoping we can get a UVF exception for that for Gutsy
<RAOF> Yay.  Leaving only us poor nvidia users without it.
<LaserJock> minghua: any disadvantage to using -intel?
<RAOF> Oh, and people who have crazy old cards
<sn9_> gutsy should dump xserver-xorg-video-via in favor of xserver-xorg-video-openchrome
<Amaranth> bryce: you want to pull from git for the ati driver?
<RAOF> Well, you've got the Xorg maintainer in here, make a pitch :)
<bryce> sn9_: for what reasons?
<superm1> sn9_, does it break on any older cards though?
<sn9_> -via doesn't support older cards, anyway
<sn9_> that's what -savage is for
<bryce> Amaranth: no, in talking to them I think they'll put out a release with the xrandr stuff merged into head
* ScottK likes my Intel embedded graphics and their open source drivers.
* RAOF is envious of ScottK, right up to the point he wants to play a game.
<sn9_> -openchrome actually makes via work decently
<ScottK> It would be a long wait.
<sn9_> no other driver can say the same
<bryce> has -openchrome even been packaged for ubuntu?
<superm1> yes
<superm1> i packaged it earlier this summer
<superm1> its in universe
<bryce> hmm, is it in universe?
<sn9_> gutsy-only, alas
<minghua> LaserJock: What I heard is that -intel doesn't support some i8xx cards as good as -i810, but since you have an i915 card, it should be a problem.
<LaserJock> shouldn't?
<sn9_> i have seen -intel fail on i9xx cards
<minghua> LaserJock: Right.  Shouldn't.
<bryce> aha, so it is
<bryce> so we have -via, -openchrome, and -unichrome now.  :-)
<bryce> sounds like we need a driver Thunderdome
<superm1> i like the idea of making openchrome default and having the other two available myself :)
<minghua> LaserJock: But I have very limited knowledge on these things, so you may want to seek advice from more experienced people. :-)
<bryce> superm1: sounds sensible
<bryce> superm1: I'm not familiar enough with the pros / cons of each driver to have an opinion yet
<superm1> bryce, well the openchrome provides xvmc
<superm1> whereas the other two don't
<superm1> i was under the impression older cards didn't work with openchrome, but if for via its the same situation, that's not a big deal
<sn9_> bryce: i can paste a link to a flamewar that bares all info
<ScottK> superm1: Any reason it can't be backported to Feisty?
<bryce> okie
<superm1> ScottK, not that i know of
<superm1> beyond attempting a build :)
<ScottK> Since it's a NEW package there's no regression risk.
<ScottK> As long as it builds and doesn't catch the computer on fire, I'll approve a backport.
<ScottK> You might try dapper-backports too.
<superm1> well i'll do a test build on it
<sn9_> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2005-December/011757.html
<Amaranth> bryce: I don't think they plan on doing a release with it now, they're just pulling the randr-1.2 branch into master
<Amaranth> they made a 6.8 branch for the current driver
<bryce> oh, hrm
<LaserJock> bryce: so should -intel work on a 915GMS ok in Feisty?
<sn9_> LaserJock: one way to find out...
<Amaranth> the intel driver has some issues
<bryce> LaserJock: ymmv.  I recall there were a variety of issues when kyle was looking at it with dell
<Amaranth> i believe it's because totem/gstreamer is stupid and picks the first Xv output offered which is the texture based one
<Amaranth> but that only works with EXA so it fails
<bryce> <bryce> agd5f: I'd definitely be up for pulling that into gutsy if the branch is merged into the official release.  that'd be great
<bryce> <agd5f> bryce: awesome.
<superm1> ScottK, yea it builds clean on feisty
<Amaranth> but that only seems to break if you use compiz so i get blamed :P
<ScottK> superm1: File the bug in feisty-backports if it installs.
<bryce> Amaranth: the announcement to the xorg lists talks of a 6.7.191
<sn9_> i never had totem working decently -- i always just installed mplayer
<Amaranth> bryce: aren't we on 6.7.193 now?
<superm1> ok ScottK
<bryce> 6.6.193
<superm1> won't build on dapper however without changes
<bryce> btw, for the -avivo driver there's a UVF exception request needing MOTU attention:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-avivo/+bug/133647
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133647 in xserver-xorg-video-avivo "Please sync xserver-xorg-video-avivo (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Medium,Triaged] 
<superm1> ScottK, https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/131776 that bug was already opened.  It built and installed fine for me, but my via hardware is out of commision so i'm not able to test it.  i anticipate the person who attempted to test it in that bug may have had an unsupported chipset for openchrome, but don't know for sure
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131776 in feisty-backports "please backport xserver-xorg-video-openchrome" [Undecided,Incomplete] 
<bryce> anyway, gotta run to dinner.  cya
<ScottK> bryce: Do you have an opinion on backporting openchrome?
<ScottK> superm1: Please comment on the bug that you installed it and it works and that the hardware the other guy has may not be supported?
<superm1> well ScottK "works" is a matter of opinion, but i'll add some comments
<ScottK> Sure.
* LongPointyStick waves to ScottK 
<ScottK> High there LongPointyStick.
<ScottK> Hi even
<ScottK> 8 days until new package freeze.  Let's get reviewing.
<LongPointyStick> meh
* LongPointyStick has uni and such
<ScottK> Details.
<ScottK> Maybe nixternal will do some...
<ScottK> His classes are over for the day.
<sn9_> gatos tv-out support has just been relicensed. time to integrate?
<ScottK> If you can get it done in 8 days.
<sn9_> it's just a patch
<ScottK> Ah.  More time for that then.
<LaserJock> hmm, so there is like 20 packages on REVU
<LaserJock> are those ones that people have uploaded since REVu got brought back up?
<LongPointyStick> LaserJock: they must have been
<LongPointyStick> everything else got ditched, due to possible contamination
<LaserJock> looks like it, the oldest looks like it's from the 19th
<LaserJock> maybe we should periodically have an "accident" ;-)
<LongPointyStick> hehe :)
<LongPointyStick> indeed!
<LongPointyStick> whenever the queue gets too large
<LaserJock> once it hits so many uploads it just turns of apache for 24 hrs
<LaserJock> *off
<LongPointyStick> that'd be nice
<ScottK> Several of the ones that are there were uploaded on the old review and worked on by some of the more motivated so they are in relatively good shape.
<ScottK> So far I've looked at 3, and advocated all three (one after some minor corrections).
<ScottK> One has even been uploaded already.
<LongPointyStick> oh nice!
<ScottK> I think mok@bioxray.dk will be a MOTU before (or maybe shortly after) Gutsy releases.  His stuff is good.
<ScottK> Actually, LaserJock might like mustang as it's a very sciency package.
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=36
<LaserJock> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> It's looking for a second advocate.
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> geeze I haven't done a review in some time
<ScottK> Morning ajmitch.
<ScottK> LaserJock: It's a small package.
<minghua> Yeah, mustang looks clean and sweet.
<LaserJock> ScottK: maybe the tarball could be renamed to reflect it's been repacked
<ScottK> It's supposed to unpack into packagename-version.orig.  IIRC there's a dpkg-buildpackage bug that does you the favor of renaming the dir so you can't tell.
<ScottK> Let me double check on that one.
<LaserJock> well, I would think you would do a dfsg
<ScottK> Yeah.  It's named correctly in the tarball.
<ScottK> Except it wasn't repacked for dfsg removal.
<LaserJock> that's what is often done
<LaserJock> sure it was
<ScottK> It was repackaged to add license text.
<LaserJock> oh
<ScottK> The license was in the file headers, but the full copy wasn't there.
<LaserJock> it says it was repackaged to remove the PDB files because they have no copyright
<ScottK> Grumble.  Yeah that too.
<ScottK> Good point.
* ScottK agrees
<ScottK> Well I missed that one.
<minghua> Are PDB files copyrightable?  They are just data.
<ScottK> He was being conservative.
<LaserJock> well, that's what I would wonder
<LaserJock> I don't think it's clear cut
<ScottK> Agregations of data are copyrightable in their arrangement, so it's not clear.
<LaserJock> the Blue Obelisk group is working on that kind of stuff
<ScottK> The canonical (pun intended) reference database for US Code (the law) is copyright because of the indexing developed by the company that puts it out.  You can't properly cite a case without their index reference.
<LaserJock> personally I think it should be fine, but I guess if you want to really be safe it's better to not have stuff that's has no copyright info
<ScottK> His first package got bounced by pitti for licensing, so I think he's being really careful.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, what do you think? should he use dfsg ?
<minghua> Agreed.  We can always add PDB files back later if needed.
<LaserJock> he added a cool script that downloads some PDB files for testing
<minghua> Debian uses "ds" suffices which stands for "Debian source" on some repackaged upstream tarballs.
<LaserJock> I think I'm ok with it as it is
<LaserJock> he clearly states in copyright that it's repacked
<ScottK> I think it's OK.
<ScottK> dsfg might be better, but it's not required.
<ScottK> The part that's clear in the repacked tarball best practices is unpacking to pakcagename-version.orig and it does that.
<LaserJock> ok, I'm going to advocate and upload
<ScottK> Coo.
<ScottK> Cool even.
<ScottK> Reverend http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=33 is also a bit sciencey (not as sciencey as mustang) and looking for a second advocate.
<ScottK> Maybe minghua would have that one ....
<minghua> ScottK: Sorry, don't know python packaging at all.  And I would rather not advocate packages without building and testing it in gutsy (which I can't do now).
<LaserJock> Reverend? :-)
<ScottK> Yeah.  It's some kind of bayesian classifier thingy
<ScottK> "named after Rev.  Thomas Bayes.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I'm not very comfortable with people adding copyright stuff to orig.tar.gzs
<superm1> ScottK, there is an error in the license on reverend
<LaserJock> it'd be nice is upstream's would get it right :-)
<ScottK> Urgh.
<superm1> er nvm
<superm1> i read it wrong
<ScottK> Not urgh then.
<superm1> i thought he was claiming LGPL in one place and GPL in another :)
* superm1 needs to read closer before blurting out loud
<LaserJock> ummm
<ScottK> What'd I miss?
<LaserJock> if the app is LGPL and the packaging is GPL, what is the resulting .deb?
* ScottK thought that was OK, but ....
<LaserJock> well, they are compatible licenses
<ScottK> Code is LGPL and that's what gets installed.
<ScottK> the .deb it self would be GPL.
<LaserJock> just an interesting thought
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> I don't know why he did it that way, but it seemed fine.
<LaserJock> if I copyright the packaging I use the same license as the code
* ScottK too.
<ScottK> It keeps things clean.
* ScottK - for some reason - ponders putting packaging under a "can't be used by Automatix" license.  I wonder if that would hold water.
<elkbuntu> ScottK, wouldnt. that would violate the Open Source Definition, for one.
<ScottK> So it goes in multiverse then.
<LaserJock> ScottK: it'd almost be worth it ;-)
<ScottK> That's what I'm thinking.
<man-di> ScottK: thx
<ScottK> You're welcome.  It seemed like your kind of thing.
<man-di> ScottK: I know this, I work with doko on them
<ScottK> Ah.  Good to hear.
<LaserJock> seriously, if we had source packages and .debs built and then run lintian/linda on both
<LaserJock> it seems like that would help
<ScottK> I agree.
<ScottK> I can see using ppa as a back end.
<ScottK> Or maybe even jdong's backport builder thingy.
<LaserJock> so if we had a webgui
<ScottK> I don't know enough about how it works.
* ajmitch shudders
<LaserJock> that gave like links to lintian/linda output
<ScottK> Yeah.
<LaserJock> maybe even a () with the list of errors/warnings
<ScottK> I think it's about time for me to get to bed.
<ScottK> So good night all.
<LaserJock> night
<LaserJock> wow
<LaserJock> the upload queue now has the whole source package
<zakame> hi motus
<zakame> I see revu's mostly back
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> can somebody tell me if motu-uvf was OK with bug 129043?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129043 in democracyplayer "democracy-player has a new version and a new name, please upgrade package in Gutsy" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129043
<RAOF> Hobbsee was, but it's not entirely obvious from her comment on the bug.
<dholbach> I reassigned to motu-uvf again
<dholbach> just to be sure
<coNP> Good morning!
<norsetto> morning all and then some
<norsetto> StevenK: I hope you agree with what I have written in bug 77000?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77000 in kino "Kino is very old in Ubuntu - several upstream versions with important bugfixes and lots of improvements has been released, please package ver. 1.0.x" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77000
<Amaranth> norsetto: don't even need 1.1.1, we have gtk+ 2.11.x
<norsetto> Amaranth: good point indeed
<jussi01> morning all
<bmm> Any MOTU: I found some tabs in my copyright file, so I've replaced them with spaces. So I will have to to a new upload of boswars to REVU, but because it's pretty large, is there somebody who would like to comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42 ?
<StevenK> norsetto: What you said in 77000 is fine
<geser> bmm: just a quick look on it: can you have boswars and boswars-gl installed at the same time?
<bmm> geser: yes, the only thing I chose is to give the menu items the same name, so it might be weird to have that
<bmm> geser: but there isn't any technical reason not to allow it.
<geser> ok
<geser> the binary is the same for both?
<bmm> geser: No, one is compiled with OpenGL support, the other without. Or do they look the same?
<geser> I ask because both Desktop files have "Exec=boswars -d /usr/share/games/boswars"
<bmm> geser: then that's a problems.... I'll take a look.
<bmm> geser: that's a bug, I'll fix that now. Sorry for that.
<geser> please also remove config.log in the clean rule
<bmm> geser: ok, that's another bug :-)
<geser> that's all I've found on a quick look at the diff.gz
<bmm> geser: then I should read my own diff.gz more :-(
<bmm> geser: I'll do another upload after testing the new menu for the gl package. Thanks for looking!
<bmm> uscan (watch system) thinkgs that pre2.4 is a never version than 2.4. Is that my fault (can I do anything to fix this)?
<POX_> bmm: dpkg --compare-versions 2.4 '>' 2.4~pre && echo true
<POX_> bmm: in debian/watch: opts="uversionmangle=s/pre/~pre/
<bmm> POX_: thanks!
<POX_> if "pre" is before "2.4" (as in your example), move it to the end
* coNP files some UVFes just to keep the MOTU-UVF team awake :)
<simu_> hi I need advocates for my package on revu: rotoscope
<norsetto> coNP: I don't think ScottK needs that; when he was here yesterday it must have been 4am for him :-)
<coNP> coNP: sorry, what do you mean?
<coNP> Oh, the UVFes
<coNP> norsetto: ^^
* coNP is getting tired :)
<norsetto> coNP: yep, I think a lunch break is needed
<jussi01> hmmm, who was it yesterday that was trying to repack a deb converted from rpm?
<coNP> How can I recover my REVU password? Neither the old one or the recovered one seems to work :(
<coNP> (I mean recovering on the REVU interface)
<dholbach> coNP: try entering a wrong one
<dholbach> if you're not presented with something you pass to gpg, try http://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart instead
* dholbach -> lunch - see you later
* coNP is presented with "None"
<coNP> that does not seem to work
<Fujitsu> coNP: Have you uploaded something to the new instance?
<coNP> No. Maybe I should do that
<Fujitsu> I don't think it will generate a password otherwise.
<bmm> my upload seems to be taking longer than usual to appear on the revu page, does anybody know if revu is processing packages at the moment?
<xxxxx1> mornin' ubunteros :)
<xxxxx1> coNP, congrats!
<coNP> Thanks, xxxxx1 :)
<norsetto> look at this: (11:14:47) coNP [n=conp@unaffiliated/conp]  entered the room.
<norsetto> (11:15:24) ***norsetto bows in front of the new master of the know and unknown universe
<norsetto> and he didn't even let me kiss his hand ....
<coNP> norsetto:  sorry, (1) I was *not* a MOTU @ 11:14 yet :), (2) I don't let anyone to kiss my hands. But thanks :D
<ScottK> norsetto: It was 1AM, not 4AM.
<ScottK> coNP: Congrats.
<norsetto> 1am is sick man
<ScottK> coNP: You've been given a big responsibilty.  Don't mess up.  Ask questions.
<coNP> Thanks ScottK
<xxxxx1> hey ScottK
<ScottK> Heya xxxxx1.
<coNP> Actually I guess I cannot do anything wrong, since we have frozen everything. So I have to wait for the UVF team anyway.
<coNP> No, of course I can introduce bugs with bugfixes, etc.
<Hobbsee> coNP: you'rea MOTU now?
<coNP> Hobbsee: yes I am.
<Hobbsee> coNP: nice work!
<Hobbsee> coNP: you can still upload and violate the freeze, incidently
<Fujitsu> However we might let you off with being lightly killed.
<Hobbsee> coNP: at the risk of myself or ScottK or anyone else of interest coming to hunt you down and eat you.
<coNP> Do I understand it right that it is so to make possible for use to upload e.g. bugfixes (that is legal also during the freeze).
<zul> Hobbsee: hah I would be meaner
<ScottK> Anything that's not a new upstream version (i.e. a new Debian or Ubuntu revision).
<Hobbsee> coNP: yeah
<ScottK> coNP: You can also review stuff on REVU and advocate if you think it's good.
* coNP wonders if it has been worth becoming a MOTU. Your life is not safe any more... :)
<ScottK> We've got a week left and there are some decent packages there.
<coNP> Okay, I guess I'll do that. But I need to upload something to get my REVU account back
<Hobbsee> coNP: it wasnt safe as a prospective one.  just look at those who file mass sync requests.
* Fujitsu gnashes his teeth viciously.
<coNP> Well ... :)
<ScottK> Like I said, don't mess up.  Ask questions.
<coNP> ScottK: Do you think I did not ask enough questions? Or you want to warn me to avoid mistakes in the future?
<norsetto> ScottK: and if I may add, answer questions too .....
<ScottK> coNP: There have been people in that past who thought once they were MOTU they could do anything and ask no more questions.
<ScottK> coNP: No, I think you ask lots of questions and I'm saying don't stop.
<coNP> ScottK: I do most work for the Desktop Team, which keeps me less self-confident, as most of our packages reside in main.
<ScottK> Ah.
<coNP> So warn me again if I ever happen to become a core-dev ;D
<ScottK> BTW, if you are doing REVU stuff, feel free to be first advocate and be wrong.  That doesn't hurt anything.  It's a good (and humbling) learning experience.
* ScottK knows.
<coNP> So you say I should upload something to REVU to get my login back?
<Hobbsee> coNP: yes
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Doesn't someone have to edit something on REVU to give him his new super powers?
* ScottK doesn't recall for sure.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: although no idea of the interim step, and permissons and stuff
* coNP is member of REVU team in LP. I am not sure if this triggers some magic or not
<Hobbsee> actually...
<Hobbsee> i'll have a look...
<ScottK> coNP: That's a necessary, but not sufficient thing.
<ScottK> There are some manual bits that have to be shuffled.
<ScottK> Also you may already have an account on REVU.  Try and recover your password if you haven't.
* Hobbsee cant seem to logon
* ScottK wonders if siretart is around to do it?
<Fujitsu> sistpoty manages the new one, AFAIK.
* ScottK has seem both of them working on it.
<ScottK> seen/seem
<ScottK> strike that, reverse it.
* ScottK goes back to the first cup of coffee after not enough sleep.
<siretart> sorry?
<mok0> ScottK: What TZ are you in?
<ScottK> -0400
<siretart> ScottK: to do what?
<ScottK> siretart: coNP is now a MOTU and we were hoping he could get reviewing super powers on REVU.
<mok0> Ah so you're up early :-)
<siretart> ScottK: oh, any motu can set that atm ;)
<siretart> ScottK: more specifically, every user of sparky
<ScottK> Any motu that knows how...
<siretart> right
<siretart> /query
<ScottK> Sure although I've never logged into sparky before.
<siretart> coNP: what is your revu login?
<coNP> aron@ubuntu.hu
<coNP> Oh I should not tell that to the spam machines :(
<Fujitsu> coNP: It's surely going to be all over everything if you're uploading packages...
<coNP> Fujitsu: in fact it is :)
<mok0> ScottK: Working on wulfware now
<ScottK> Great.
<mok0> ScottK: It's a pretty complicated package with inet daemons and init scripts
<ScottK> Uh oh.
<mok0> ScottK: I hope to get it right
<ScottK> We'll get coNP to review it.
<coNP> OMG
<mok0> ScottK: Is he a wizard?
<norsetto> (pure evil)
<ScottK> No, he just was made MOTU today.
<mok0> Ah! Initiation ceremony!
<StevenK> Baptism!
<StevenK> Quick, let's drown him!
<ScottK> Well he got made MOTU without having to merger courier, so we have to do something.
<mok0> In the blood of a rooster
<ogra> SteveA, if tehy would actually drown thenm would we ever have heard of them ?
<coNP> ScottK: I did the lighttpd security updates. :)
<mok0> Only the ones God decided to save :-)
<ogra> lol
<coNP> But okay. I'll review the package of mok0 so that ScottK has time to process the MOTU-UVF bugs :)
<ScottK> coNP: Not nearly as much fun as a courier merge, but very helpful for the community.
<coNP> ScottK: you mean lighttpd?
<Hobbsee> mmm..bugs...
* Hobbsee eats the bugs
<zul> doesnt he have to wear the chicken suit?
<coNP> I asked Seveas for a new suit :)
<coNP> Err... cloak
<ScottK> coNP: Yes.
<mok0> coNP: Thanks. I've still got some problems to iron out
* coNP sadly leaves to eat his lunch
<ScottK> coNP: Plenty of other good stuff to review in the meantime.
<bmm> Although the dput -f revu didn't result in any errors, my upload doesn't seem to make it to the revu page. Can anybody see a "submission queue" or "still on queue list"? (package is large: boswars http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42 )
<zul> gah....stupid users
<norsetto> why don't you make him in u-u-s? still got two bugs in the queue there......
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> He can make himself uus.
<norsetto> coNP: tock tock .... read above :-)
<Hobbsee> bmm: probably because the address of revu has changed.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It has?
<ScottK> bmm: When did you upload it?
<bmm> Hobbsee: ah.. hmmm... it worked yesterday, but what are the changes?
<Hobbsee> oh, perhaps not.  my bad
<bmm> ScottK: about 60m ago
<Hobbsee> i didnt think the domain name had moved
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: They just pointed revu.taurware.de to the new IP address.
<ScottK> bmm: That should be long enough.
<Hobbsee> so i've just found...
<ScottK> You need someone with admin rights on the machine (not me) to look into it.
<StevenK> That's a feature of DNS. Being able to change the IP it points to.
<StevenK> I wish I could explain that to a hosting company I have to deal with.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i'd tried ssh'ing into the old location, found it didnt work, so used a different address.
<Hobbsee> ina ctual fact, it did work, it just took a very long time to come pu
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Did you get my email re UVFs, and ubuntustudio packages?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yes.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it's still unread, though
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> Just checking that it did actually go out.
<bmm> Maybe it's some kind of size limit, because every upload is about 40MB, so uploading the second time got me over my quota?
<ScottK> I have a file that is 768MB of date/time, value pairs (many lines).  Any suggestions on how to relatively easily get that into a scatter diagram?
<StevenK> gnuplot
<ScottK> Thanks.
* ScottK looks
<StevenK> TheMuso: Mail recieved, and read. I'm still pondering.
<zul> ditto
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok.
<TheMuso> I don't mean to push, but I am being prompted about it by the ubuntustudio guys.
<StevenK> Hmph. :-P
<StevenK> Hrm. Either I'm in the future, or I found a bug.
<StevenK> "2793.1 THz processor, 1.47 GB memory"
<TheMuso> heh
<mok0> StevenK: I disappointed that the future is not better RAM-wise
<StevenK> mok0: You and me both
<mok0> StevenK: Maybe the processor is so fast it doesn't *need* any RAM
<StevenK> I find that hard to believe, given how fast current Pentium 4's are, and how much they eat RAM.
<Fujitsu> Current and P4 are mutually exclusive, aren't they?
<StevenK> Right. My memory is behind the times.
<StevenK> New VMWare machine at $WORK is a Intel Core 2 Quad.
<Fujitsu> Ooh, shiny.
<StevenK> Yes. :-)
<tsmithe> erm, i'm having trouble with my revu login. recovery just gives me "None"
<tsmithe> which isn't right
<ScottK> tsmithe: It is if you haven't uploaded to the new REVU yet.
<tsmithe> ahh
<tsmithe> i just did, but i'll wait a moment :)
<tsmithe> ok that works
<tsmithe> great
<tsmithe> could someone archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=44 (i think that would be best; it will stay on the server, right?)
* ScottK does
<nixternal> ScottK: are we planning on doing a REVU session?
<Fujitsu> tsmithe: It will stay there, yes. I've archived it.
<tsmithe> thanks
<nixternal> I seen you pimping "new" yesterday before freeze
<ScottK> nixternal: We've got a week left before new package freeze.  All the stuff currently on revu is put there by people who are currently motivated, so get reviewing.
* ScottK is slower than Fujitsu
<nixternal> OK, when I get back from class in a few hours, I will get to revu'in
<tsmithe> man-di, have you had a chance to see/upload my latest wired package? (i fixed the linda error)
<geser> can someone familiar with the -kdecopy package look at bug #134216?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134216 in qgis "QGis cannot be installed in gutsy gibbon" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134216
<bmm> My dputs are not making it into REVU, and I'm also not getting any error messages. Could somebody delete the boswars packages, so I can try to see if it's a quota problem? (by uploding it again)
<coNP> norsetto: you want me to join uus?
<nixternal> geser: that might be a good Riddell question once he is done with the release stuff...I would think that the libqt4 packages would/should replace the -kdecopy packages in the first place
<norsetto> coNP: of course!
<coNP> mok0: so you want me to review wolfware?
<nixternal> why he is using the kdecopy packages in the first place is beyond me
<Riddell> -kdecopy should die
<nixternal> ya
<the_olo> hi all
<nixternal> that is what I thought
<Riddell> I'm not, havn't for some time
<man-di> tsmithe: I got no mail saying its updated
<the_olo> I have a problem with REVU
<nixternal> oh, we used the -kdecopy for the first kde4 packages
<the_olo> after the outage
<tsmithe> man-di, weird. i swear i sent one..
<tsmithe> maybe i need to fix my postfix again
<the_olo> cannot login, password retrieval gives me the string "None" (which is the Python's rsult of conversion of undefined value to string)
<mok0> coNP: That'd be great. I am testing it in pbuilder now. It will still be 30 minutes perhaps before I can upload
<Fujitsu> the_olo: You probably want to upload something first.
<coNP> the_olo: upload something first
<Fujitsu> Otherwise you won't have an account.
<the_olo> it definitely has my GPG key registered, as it generates the correct GPG message that I can decrypt
<coNP> mok0: take your time. As ScottK said plenty other packages to review in the meantime :)
<norsetto> coNP: I can also appoint you as my personal sponsor if you don't mind (imagine this in your id "sponsoring norsetto since 2007", impressive eh?)
<the_olo> I had two packages uploaded to REVU before outage, are they lost?
<Fujitsu> the_olo: The packages are deemed compromised, so probably.
<coNP> norsetto: I am too young to die
<coNP> err... to take such a responsibilty :)
<ScottK> the_olo: Even if we had them, I'd certainly never upload code taken from a compromised machine to the archive.
* norsetto mumble about those incorruptible youngsters of today....
<tsmithe> man-di, if there are any comments, could you leave me a pm; i'm away now
<nixternal> "imagine this in your id "sponsoring norsetto since 2007", impressive eh?" - norsetto hahahahahah! classic!
* coNP thinks he should remove himself from the Ubuntu Member candidates now.
<bmm> Any MOTU: could somebody completely delete boswars: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42
<Fujitsu> bmm: Why? That won't affect anything...
<bmm> Fujitsu: The only thing I can think of is some kind of quota problem, if so it would help.
<Hobbsee> archiving it wont actually help with quota...
<Fujitsu> bmm: No, there's no quota, and we can't easily remove it.
<bmm> Fujitsu: ah, ok. Then the only option is to try another upload?
<Fujitsu> bmm: Correct.
<the_olo> ok, I've re-uploaded my packages and I'll wait for REVU to update
<coNP> Now I have uploaded a package, get my password through the recovery interface but it does not work.
<coNP> I mean REVU of course
<Fujitsu> coNP: You sure you haven't copied it incorrectly?
<coNP> I tried it about 3 times
<Fujitsu> Hm..
<coNP> No. I did it.
<coNP> Some middle-click error. Or firefox password manager error.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: W: miro; The menu file has section Applications, which is unknown. <-- intentional?
<coNP> Now I am in :)
* coNP has super powers now
<the_olo> Fujitsu: we have to wait until the packages appear in REVU web interface before trying to recover the password, right?
<coNP> the_olo: I gues so
<Fujitsu> the_olo: Yes.
<Hobbsee> coNP: oh yeah, forgot to tell you that
<coNP> Thanks Hobbsee if you are responsible for that :)
<Hobbsee> :) np
* coNP reviews xgrep
* coNP makes mistakes to make ScottK happy :D
<ScottK> coNP: No need to make them on purpose.  I'm sure you'll do fine.
<coNP> Okay, just kidding. :) Hopefully no self-fulfilling prophecies...
<the_olo> Fujitsu: works now :) thanks
<Fujitsu> the_olo: Goodo.
<the_olo> uploaded qdvdauthor and gnofract4d
* ScottK just notes for the record that there are already more packages on REVU than we have people to review in the next week.
<Hobbsee> is that counting active MOTU's?
* Fujitsu hides, and goes to bed.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Just looking at the pace of reviews and the pace of uploads.
* ScottK does, however, note that 3 packages made it to NEW yesterday.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah right
<ScottK> Please feel free to dive in and prove me wrong.
<Hobbsee> yes, some of us are slack and dislike reviewing.
* Hobbsee has just uploaded miro.  isnt that enough?
<Hobbsee> or, currently uploading it
<Fujitsu> And some of us are just very slack.
<Hobbsee> yes.
* Hobbsee pokes Fujitsu with the cattle prod
<ScottK> So let's get less slack for a few days and get some stuff done.
* Fujitsu runs away.
* Fujitsu -> bed
* ScottK reads LP relase notes.
<ScottK> " * Uploading to the PROPOSED pocket no longer closes related bugs." - Yeah.
* Hobbsee looks at this moodle one.
<coNP> Hmmm... in case of automake shouldn't the upstream tarball contain the Makefile (instead of the debian diff)?
<Hobbsee> for hte love of everything good, why didnt they create a debdiff?
<Fujitsu> coNP: Some upstreams are deranged.
<bmm> REVU maintainers: if possible, I'd like a little line added to the page, telling me what time it is on the server or show relative times instead of absolute.
<coNP> Fujitsu: what do you mean by that?
<Fujitsu> coNP: Makefile should be provided in the upstream tarball.
<Fujitsu> And I really should be going to bed.
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> bmm: It says it's UTC-4... but it's actually ~+5.5 at the moment, I think.
* Fujitsu pokes somebody to set the date properly.
<bmm> Fujitsu: yeah, saw that line, but actually meant a "page loaded at: time:time:time" line, just to make it easier to read. But it's just something for the wishlist
<Lutin> jussi01: you there ?
<the_olo> hmm all this servers compromise has set back the community a couple of weeks I see
<coNP> Does REVU know about hyperlinks / should I write HTML in the comments?
<norsetto> bmm: you can always file a bug: https://launchpad.net/revu/+filebug
<the_olo> don't you think Gutsy schedule should be corrected accordingly to give more time to the community?
<bmm> norsetto: thanks!
<ScottK> bmm: REVU code is on Launchpad.  Patches accepted.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what are your thoughts on archiving an upload, and telling them to file on launchpad with a debdiff instead?
<Hobbsee> moodle is very difficult to decipher like this.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For the moodle one, I'd just leave it be.  I'm not sure why it's there, but I think edubuntu people are working on it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and i'm all for making them use the most efficient tool for the job.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> Generally, I've got no problem with that.
<coNP> Do you think I should let my review be reviewed? Or just post it as first one?
<ScottK> coNP: Post it.  As long as you aren't the 2nd advocate, it will get reviewed.
<coNP> (Not that I would advocate :))
<coNP> Why do we need config.{cache,guess}.diff s?
<ScottK> coNP: If you think a package is good you should advocate.
<coNP> Sure. But not if I think some issues should be corrected first.
<ScottK> Any math majors in the room.  If so, Bug 134277 could use a look over.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134277 in python-scipy "Error in linalg.svd for large matrix" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134277
<ScottK> coNP: Agreed.  Just don't feel like you can't advocate because you're new.
<coNP> Okay. Sorry to ask again, but why do we need config.{cache,guess}.diff s?
<mok0> coNP: I
<coNP> mok0: yes?
<mok0> coNP: I'm having a problem with my rules file, configure is being run twice
<mok0> coNP: it has to do with arch and indep targets I think
<coNP> mok0: if you put your rules into some pastebin I guess we can have a look at that :)
* mok0 works at it
<mok0> coNP: http://pastebin.com/m13c0cbe5
<mok0> coNP: I left out some comments and stuff
<coNP> mok0: you can edit your pastebin if you want to
<mok0> coNP: ok
<norsetto> scottK: what do you mean with your email about usertags? they are totally transparent to debian
<bmm> Fujitsu: I don't think my boswars package is getting any further at the moment. How hard is it to completely remove every trace of it on REVU?
<mok0> coNP:  I don't think you need the first 10 lines of comments
<ScottK> norsetto: Isn't he talking about adding tags in the Debian BTS?
* coNP has reviewed xgrep
<ScottK> Go coNP
<norsetto> scottK: no, to your email when you use the bts
<ScottK> Don't those go into the bug then?
<coNP> mok0: you depend on  "configure" in the config.guess rule and also run configure.
<norsetto> scottK: yes, but they are usertags, debian doesn't use them, they are only to be used by the issuer
<coNP> mok0: sorry, I mean config.status
<mok0> coNP: yes, config.status is built by running configure, right?
<coNP> mok0: sorry. That is not a problem. Investigating ...
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.  Given the somewhat tortured history of Debian/Ubuntu cooperation, I don't think we ought to be tagging stuff Ubuntu something in the Debian BTS without some concurrence from Debian.
<ScottK> It's going to upset people.  I guarantee it.
* Hobbsee remebers why she dislikes reviewing.
<norsetto> scottK: I see your point, but in principle debian do not care; I could use an usertag for my user and have in it norsetto-is-an-idiot; debian doesn't care (they just need to know that is true :-))
<coNP> After a comment should I say this to the uploader?
<coNP> (As IIRC they don't get any notification about that from REVU)
<norsetto> scottK: so, you are saying, tell them that we are using these tags; which is fair I guess
<ScottK> norsetto: I think that's generally true (in principal), but Ubuntu has a "Special" relationship with Debian.
<ScottK> coNP: There's a mailing list they can subscribe to.  I get them all by mail.
<coNP> Okay then.
<mok0> coNP: Ah, perhaps it's because build-indep doesn't know that config.status is already made
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  Work with Debian and don't unilterally push Ubuntu specific stuff into their BTS.
<ScottK> unilterally/unilaterally
<coNP> ScottK: what is meant by install log? "dpkg --install <package> runs without errors"?
<ScottK> copy/paste the stuff that appears in your terminal when you do the install
<coNP> Then yes.
<coNP> ScottK: [cheese]  attached install log, subscribed as bug contact.
<ScottK> OK.  Hobbsee had comments on the package on REVU too.
<coNP> ScottK: sure. I had no idea if I should also review original packaging stuff...
<ScottK> If you are going to upload it, it shouldn't be wrong.
<coNP> Sure. I am not against that just wondering ...
<ScottK> Don't diverge from Debian more than needed (this is a judgement call) if applicable and document everything you do in debian/changelog.
<coNP> ScottK: you mean me? I guess there is no Debian package
<ScottK> coNP: The install log thing applies to your other UVFe's too.
<ScottK> coNP: That's why I said if applicable.
<coNP> ScottK: sure. I am preparing them.
<ScottK> OK
<coNP> Done.
* coNP corrects cheese now
<coNP> Hobbsee: you mean a kind of "Homepage: homepage" line in your comment to cheesE?
<Hobbsee> coNP: yep
<mok0> coNP: Got it now
<ScottK> mok0: What was the problem?
<coNP> Hobbsee: o.k., what is the problem with license? I guess Copyright should be mended. But license is there (GPL2 excerpt)
<mok0> ScottK: I had the targets wrong in the makefile
<Hobbsee> coNP: i though tyou actually had to put something after the Licence: part
<Hobbsee> coNP: but if they've accepted it previously...
<ScottK> Ah.
<coNP> Let me see. Copyright FSF was corrected...
<mok0> coNP: Uploaded to REVU!
* coNP would say, as long as we accept Nautilus / Metacity uploads with License:$ lines he will not change this either :D
<bmm> Could someone take a look at my comment here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42 I can't see what is going wrong with uploading to REVU, but I can't seem to get my new revision on revu.
<coNP> Hobbsee, ScottK : so you think I can upload cheese if I corrected the errors (except for nothing after License and not specifying exactly what parts).
<ScottK> coNP: I acked, but did not confirm the UVFe.  I'd like a 2nd opinion.
<coNP> Sure, I forgot that
<coNP> Is there some reason why the REVU debdiff option compares the old upload to the new?
<mok0> coNP: Curse it I was too fast uploading. There is a "rm -f configure-stamp" missing in the clean target. It only affects you if you build twice.
<mok0> Perlit Rendehest
<norsetto> !swearing | mok0
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about swearing - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ScottK> coNP: Because when you are looking at successive uploads of the same version to see if someone has fixed a comment, it's very useful.
<ScottK> !language | norsetto
<ubotu> norsetto: Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
<ScottK> coNP: When looking at a new upstream version it's less useful.
<coNP> ScottK: no. I don't wanted to ask why there is a debdiff option. I asked why we "debdiff new old" instead of "debdiff old new"
<ScottK> Ah.
<coNP> You get a debdiff with you can patch the new to get the old.
<coNP> Seems pretty useless.
<coNP> Sure, you can reverse patch, etc.
<ScottK> The debdiff direction depends on which upload you have selected (which URL you got to the page from).
<coNP> Okay.
<ScottK> You probalby arrived via the older URL.
<ScottK> click on the newer one and then do it again.
<coNP> Very nice.
<ScottK> coNP: Why are you uploading to REVU?
<Hobbsee> habit, probably
<bmm> Any MOTU: Well, it's now clear that my uploads are not working. Something is wrong. Can somebody completely remove http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42 (so I can try to start over) or tell me what is going wrong?
* ScottK guesses so.
<coNP> Hobbsee, ScottK because I wanted to re-activate my account
<ScottK> OK.  I thought you uploaded an update to cheese after the first one.
<coNP> Yes. That might be habit.
<Hobbsee> jdong: ping
<coNP> Or maybe because I wanted to have the corrections where the comment was
<mok0> I re-uploaded a revised version of wulfware. I didn't include .orig.tar.gz I hope it's OK
<bmm> If REVU isn't showing my uploaded packages, should I just keep trying? (nobody seems to know another solution)
<mok0> bmm: You have to upload the source.changes file not the i386.changes
<bmm> mok0: What part of the output I posted makes you think I tried to upload the i386.changes ?
<mok0> That's usually the problem
<norsetto> bmm: mok0 is trying to be helpful
<bmm> mok0: Oh, ok. Well, I've posted the output of my dput -f (package)source.changes to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42 but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the i386 ;-)
<bmm> If there is no other solution, I'll just keep uploading till I drop ;-)
<Hobbsee> bmm: unsure if revu is actually working
<soothsayer> When a new version of an existing package is uploaded, is it uploaded to Launchpad?
<bmm> Hobbsee: I think other people got their packages in during the same time, so I think it's working.
<Hobbsee> ah, here we go.
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: uh, what?
<bmm> Hobbsee: but you are right in that simply pushing more onto revu won't help.
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: depends where you tell it to upload to
<Hobbsee> bmm: which package?
<bmm> Hobbsee: boswars, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42
<Hobbsee> cellwriter_1.0.0_source.changes
<Hobbsee> gnome-ppp_0.3.23-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<Hobbsee> jeliza_2.4beta1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<Hobbsee> zekr-quran-translations-en_1.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<Hobbsee> anyone interested in ^ either?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The zekr one is on my list.
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: Not me doing the uploading. I'm following a package that has supposedly has the fix uploaded. It hasn't made it's way to repos and I want to get my hands on it now.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's in rejected, for some reason
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: it likely has to the gutsy ones
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> Any chance you could grab it and mail it to me?  IIRC it's small.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i moved it out of rejected
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Good.
<Hobbsee> oh, is ee
<Hobbsee> bmm: boswars is broken
<Hobbsee> /srv/uploads/boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes:
<Hobbsee>       Good signature found
<Hobbsee>    validating boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Hobbsee>       Good signature found
<mok0> ScottK: I've been messing about with several uploads of wulfware. Can you see if the set of files that's there match up?
<Hobbsee>    validating boswars_2.4.orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> dscverify: invalid file length for boswars_2.4.orig.tar.gz (wanted 49037395 got 9143648)
<Hobbsee>    validating boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<Hobbsee> Validation FAILED!!
<Hobbsee> /srv/uploads/boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes could not be processed. moving to rejected
<bmm> Hobbsee: Ah! Uhm... but how did that happen...
<Hobbsee> bmm: removed, please try uploading it again
<ScottK> bmm: Did you build a binary package and dirty the source after you made the source package?
<Hobbsee> bmm: id' say it didnt get all of the base tarball
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if it's a wront tarball length, that usually means not all of it got uploaded.
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: The package is libxmlrpc-c3. I can't find it in universe Gutsy source nor binary
<ScottK> OK.
<bmm> Hobbsee: thanks! I can start the dput now?
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison libxmlrpc-c3
<Hobbsee> libxmlrpc-c3 | 1.06.17-0ubuntu2 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages
<Hobbsee> libxmlrpc-c3 | 1.06.17-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
<Hobbsee>   xmlrpc-c | 1.06.17-0ubuntu2 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Sources
<Hobbsee>   xmlrpc-c | 1.06.17-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Sources
<Hobbsee> bmm: yes
<bmm> Hobbsee: it's probably an upload error then. Thanks for the info, I finally have something to work with :-D
<Hobbsee> who's michael levin?
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: ubuntu2 had a packaging bug, I assume the corrected version would be ubuntu3. Am I wrong?
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: usually.  depends whether it got committed to bzr, or uploaded
<ScottK> mok0: It looks like it's all there.
<mok0> ScottK: thx
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: Can either of those be accessed publically?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: zekr only seemed to ahve teh changes file there.
<ScottK> mok0: And it wasn't in Hobbsee's list of rejected packages.
<Hobbsee> soothsayer: of course
<soothsayer> Hobbsee: A hint?
* Hobbsee fiddles with revu
<Hobbsee> right, who is this michael levin person?
<Hobbsee> andrew howlett, as well
<Hobbsee> oh, drat
<Hobbsee> siretart: you're not stilla round, are you?
<Hobbsee> oh, i probably need to sudo -u revu1 this.
<mok0> I am going to package torque/maui now. They have some pretty strange not-free licenses. Can I contribute the packages to "restricted"?
<Hobbsee> bmm: by any chance, is the package not uploaded yet?
<Hobbsee> or not fully uplaoded?
<Hobbsee> bmm: hmmm.  axed it again.
<Hobbsee> bmm: try uploading again, and if that doesnt work, tell me when it's fully uploaded, and i'll fix it harder
<Hobbsee> ok, everything else *should* be fixed, unless you're not in the keyring, which siretart will ahve to fix.
<siretart> Hobbsee: huh?
<siretart> ah, keyring syncing
<Hobbsee> siretart: yep
<jussi01> Lutin: here now, whats up?
<Lutin> jussi01: re-upload a (hopefully) correct version of mlt++ and kdenlive. want to give it a try ?
<jussi01> Lutin: sure. same repo?
<bmm> Hobbsee: Ok, I'll start uploading it again now. Weird thing is it worked the first time.
<Lutin> jussi01: yep
<bmm> Hobbsee: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1.dsc. Then it goes on telling me I can try dcut, what should I do?
<Hobbsee> bmm: dont use dcut, for a start
<jussi01> lutin seems to have installed fine
<bmm> Hobbsee: wouldn't know how to use dcut, never heard of it before.
<Hobbsee> bmm: removed, try agin
<Lutin> jussi01: yay ! :)
<jussi01> Lutin: and looks like it works fine also
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> ok, Im off to do some more cleaning. thanks again Lutin :)
<Lutin> jussi01: np :)
<jussi01> :)
<bmm> Hobbsee: thanks, trying now.
<bmm> Hobbsee: failed, same problem. dput -f revu boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes tells me '553 Could not create file.' after ok-ing the signatures.
<Hobbsee> siretart: do you know anything about ^ ?
<Hobbsee> oh, it's uploading them as root.
<siretart> bmm: retry
<siretart> Hobbsee: I rm'ed ~ftp/incoming/*
<siretart> (well. not the symlink, actually)
<bmm> siretart: Ah, it's uploading!
<bmm> Will take some time now, it's 40MB
<Hobbsee> siretart: so which dir are we using?  /srv/uploads or ~ftp/incomming?
<bmm> siretart and Hobbsee: thanks for looking into the problem, hope it will run smooth from here.
<siretart> Hobbsee: you need to ask sistpoty about this :)
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<siretart> Hobbsee: I think uploads go to ~ftp/incoming, but are moved via cron to /srv/uploads. however I'm not sure why
<Hobbsee> seeing as /h/f/i was completely empty, up until an hour or so ago...
<bmm> siretart: Maybe the cron job moved a half upload? (Althouth that shouldn't be a problem under linux, as long as it's not a copy,rm)
<Hobbsee> siretart: you'll need to chown those files
<siretart> maybe. lets ask sistpoty when he comes around
* Hobbsee suspects something has suddenly started working - like, moving those files as root.
<siretart> Hobbsee: done
<Hobbsee> dscverify: can't open /srv/uploads/boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes: Permission denied
<Hobbsee> Validation FAILED!!
<Hobbsee> /srv/uploads/boswars_2.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes could not be processed. moving to rejected
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  something's still being rotten.
<Hobbsee> whether that script doesnt have sufficient permission to view the file, i dont know
<rugueux> Hi there, I'm packaging a driver, with a proprietary firmware, is there a doc, or can somebody explain me how to do it, in order to appear in the restricted-drivers...
* jussi01 hugs Lutin - this is great!!!
<Lutin> jussi01: :)
<bigon> nobody of the motu uvf team here?
<ScottK> No
<ScottK> bigon: I'm in motu-uvf.  What's up?
<bigon> ScottK: will farsight sinced or not? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/farsight/+bug/132911 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132911 in farsight "[UVFe]  Please sync farsight (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] 
<bigon> ScottK: as said the current version in gutsy doesn't work at all for me
<bigon> ScottK: tp-stream-engine as well https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/132912
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132912 in telepathy-stream-engine "[UVFe]  Please sync telepathy-stream-engine (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] 
* ScottK looking
<ScottK> bigon: It would help me a lot if you would edit the upstream changelog file down to the actual changes (not the tz stuff) so I could properly review it.
<zul> also does it install ok?
<bigon> zul: yep I'm using it currently
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bigon> ScottK: I've resend an better diff of the changelog
<ScottK> Thanks.  Commenting that you've installed and are using is good too if you haven't already.
<sistpoty> hm... s.th. is very strange with the process uploads script of revu (and/or dscverify)...
<sistpoty> oh oh, seems like I've just done s.th. stupid causing some revu hickup :(
* sistpoty hopes noone will notice anything *whistle*
* pygi notices :p
* sistpoty tries to look innocent
<pygi> sistpoty, did you got that invitation from your lawyer? :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ok, revu should be accepting and processing uploads again.
* siretart waves to sistpoty 
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<sistpoty> siretart: the move_uploads.sh script is pretty stupid: if a file gets uploaded and the script runs while its being uploaded, it gets hosed.
<siretart> sistpoty: ah, we have been suspecting that today. someone was trying to do an 40mb uploda
<siretart> d
<sistpoty> hm... I guess if it would mv the files, it should work (.changes gets uploaded last and gets moved in the next run, and the file vsftpds file descriptor should also stay valid, right?)
<sistpoty> oh, and there was a symlink in /home/ftp/incoming, which caused the script to exit after copying the files *g+
<sistpoty> bah... can't write english: the file descriptor of a file getting uploaded at the moment should stay valid, right?
<siretart> the fd doesn't get invalidated while mv'ing the file, right
<sistpoty> ok, I'll change the script then
<siretart> sistpoty: btw, I played a bit with acl on the revu.cfg and /etc/sudoers, so that every 'ubuntu-dev' is able to do a keyring sync
<siretart> with all consequences of that
<sistpoty> cool :)
<sistpoty> let's see if the script works
<norsetto> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<norsetto> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34817/ => I'm puzzled by this changelog; anyone understands why it was changed like this?
<sistpoty> norsetto: do you mean the conflicts/replaces or the entry in the debian revision?
<norsetto> the entry in the debian revision
<sistpoty> norsetto: obviously wasn't planned, maybe a too fast dch -a instead of -i
<norsetto> sistpoty: can the extra space in the debian changelog justify this?
<norsetto> sistpoty: I mean, extra blank line
<norsetto> sistpoty: is the * 0u that really puzzles me, so I guess you are right, its perhaps an hasty dch
<norsetto> sistpoty: since I'm doing a new merge, my idea was to discard this change to the debian entry altogether
<sistpoty> norsetto: sorry, was afk for a cigarette
<sistpoty> norsetto: just drop that entry
<norsetto> sistpoty: right; thx
* norsetto ponders if afk=absolved for killing
<sistpoty> hehe, no just away from keyboard *g*
<jussi01> lol
<norsetto> righty oh :-)
* sistpoty almost always just redid the ubuntu delta on top of the debian package discarding all previous ubuntu changelog entries
* ScottK prefers to leave the old ubuntu changelog entries and has found them useful to figure out when certain Ubuntu changes were introduced and why.
<sistpoty> ScottK: that's why my last entry summarizes all of these...
<sistpoty> but that's only a matter of perspective: I do basically reapply the ubuntu changes, whereas you'd do a real merge ;)
<ScottK> Heh.  Just keeping the latest entry does lose the when part of it.
<sistpoty> that's right, and the who-part, though I'd never found that to be real valuable information
<sistpoty> instead when needing to reapply all changes, I've actually found out sometimes what the changes where really about (instead of what was mentioned in the changelog)
<ScottK> I found it useful on a couple of occasions to figure out what Debian changed at the same time.  It was helpful in confirming it was safe to drop an Ubuntu change.
<ScottK> I can imagine that too.
<sistpoty> ok, gotta go to bed now. gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> the nvidia blob ate my machine
<ajmitch> (again)
<norsetto> nvidia -ati 0-1
* ScottK just gets stuff that has good FOSS drivers.  I've never had to mess with video blobs.   The more I learn about them, the happier I am with that.
<ajmitch> it would have been nice if there were an amd64 motherboard with a video chipset that had free drivers
<ajmitch> at least X is only spinning at 100% of 1 cpu core
<ajmitch> ah no, it stopped, mplayer must have finally quit
<norsetto> ajmitch: need a nice gui for mplayer?
<ajmitch> no
<norsetto> ajmitch: free? I'll bundle an ati video card too?
<ajmitch> I'd rather not use something that's worse than what I have, thanks
<norsetto> ajmitch: you see, now you appreciate what you have :-)
<ajmitch> norsetto: yes, I appreciate that the drivers are irritating & less than stable
<norsetto> ajmitch: actually the xorg ati ones are not that bad.
<ajmitch> except that I'd like to be able to actually use the card for useful 3d functionality
<norsetto> ajmitch: indeed
<ajmitch> having free drivers is a nice thing, but having working hardware is also great
<norsetto> ajmitch: the french say "you can't have the butter and the money for the butter"
<norsetto> ajmitch: and then they add something about the girl who sells the butter ....
<ajmitch> heh
<bigon> is still possible to add new package to gutsy?
<Kmos> tribe-5 is out!
<Kmos> freeze over :)
<geser> bigon: yes, till NPFU at the end of August
<norsetto> highvoltage: Hi
<bigon> rahhh I forgot again to build a package with -sa before uploading to revu :/ could someone remove files from the incoming directory?
<ScottK> Kmos: Universe wasn't frozen.
<Kmos> ScottK: yeah.. it's UVF :)
<ScottK> Kmos: No.  The archive freeze for Tribe 5 was only for Main.
<ScottK> UVF is a completely unrelated concept.
<norsetto> geser: I was wondering if mon is just a sync?
<geser> norsetto: I just checked the diffs on mom, but it still looks like a merge
<geser> the init script got rewritten but it still doesn't recreate /var/run/mon if needed
<norsetto> geser: well, I was wondering since they changed it from a daemon
<bigon> Could someone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=57 The package is in the new queue on debian so I've made a fake sync
<Kmos> ScottK: ok :)
<LaserJock> any motu-uvf around?
<geser> norsetto: I can't find a reference to it in the changelog
<geser> norsetto: what did change was that it previously run as the user daemon and now as the new user mon
<norsetto> geser: sorry, I explained myself badly, I mean, its not running as a daemon user
<ScottK> LaserJock: Just barely
<geser> that's right, it uses the mon user now but is still a daemon (the ubuntu patch need adjustments for the new user, btw)
<norsetto> geser: yeah, you are 200% correct
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, I was thinking of asking for a quick-n-dirty UVFe, but maybe I should go the long way and do it properly ;-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: That'd be better.  I'm on the way out the door and my brain is fried.
<LaserJock> ScottK: np
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-24
<norsetto> anyone knows how to check who sponsored a package!?
<LaserJock> it's not easy
<ajmitch> norsetto: depends, what package was it?
<LaserJock> you can check the .changes and see what GPG key signed it
<norsetto> Laserjock: OK, that would be in the build queue I guess
<norsetto> ajmitch: any package; I rather like to thank the person that sponsors my packages; I appreciate the work they are doing
<superm1> norsetto, what packages?  i saw ScottK going over quite a few last night
<norsetto> well, the last two were gobby and battleball
<superm1> hm didn't hear mentions of either
<norsetto> well, anyhow, whoever that was: THANK YOU. I appreciate your work very much.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you see that we can now check out packages in the +queue ?
<superm1> LaserJock, that's pretty cool, i just saw that
<geser> norsetto: gobby and battleball were sponsored by dholbach
<norsetto> geser: the guy is crazy; is almost 1pm....
<norsetto> make it 1 am :-)
<geser> :)
<norsetto> geser: how can you check it?
<geser> check the signature from the mail on gutsy-changes
<norsetto> geser: thanks
<geser> norsetto: it's easier if you still have those mails in mutt and dholbach's key in your keyring :)
<geser> the uploads got accepted now but the signature itself is older
<norsetto> geser: I'm not subscribed to that in any case, but I can check the archive .....
<geser> battleball: Signature made Wed 22 Aug 2007 11:58:37 CEST
<geser> and gobby: Signature made Wed 22 Aug 2007 08:37:57 CEST
<norsetto> geser: I see, so it can take quite a long time. I thought it was quicker than that
<norsetto> geser: I mean, how do you guys know that a package has not yet been sponsored? the bug is still there and everything
<geser> it only says when he signed the .changes files but not when he did the real upload
<geser> you usually comment on the bug when you did upload so others don't need to waste time uploading just to find out somebody else did
<norsetto> geser: yeah, makes sense
<norsetto> oh well, as somebody said its 1pm, and old farts like me need their beauty sleep
<norsetto> good night all
<ajmitch> LaserJock: no, I didn't see that
<ajmitch> hello mr jml
<jml> hi
<jml> the entire screen should pulse red when batteries are low
<LaserJock> ajmitch: one more step towards complete MOTU domination :p
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm not seeing the step...
<ajmitch> jml: I prefer just having a nice soothing blue overlay on your desktop, with some white text explaining what is wrong
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it's one less thing that requires DC access
<ajmitch> but we had them at people.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> I'm saying that I believe that's the last step before it's technically possible for MOTU to process NEW
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch can't see MOTU processing NEW soon
<LaserJock> but I wasn't aware of that people.ubuntu.com link, that's good too
<ajmitch> yeah I was reminded of it a day or two ago
<LaserJock> probably not, although they keep adding archive admins
<LaserJock> at some point I can see them having a core-dev do it
<LaserJock> non-Canonical core-dev that is
<bigon> Nobody for reviewing a new package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=57
<pygi> bigon, people sleeping :p
<bigon> pygi: I need some sleep too :o
<pygi> bigon, well, it's 1:30AAM :P
<RAOF> bryce: Ping, re bug #126255 - the snapshot is in the bzr branch that launchpad has apparently decided is inaccessible at the moment.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126255 in xserver-xgl "FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126255
<bryce> raof, if you can post a tarball of that somewhere, I'd be happy to take a look at updating.
<RAOF> I can do a more traditional package, if you like.
* RAOF watches as bzr push goes ssssslllllloooooowly
<persia> I've just been preparing the final announcement for the next MOTU meeting, and noticed that there was a schedule conflict with the next Q&A session.  Does anyone have any suggestions regarding which should be rescheduled, or believe that the conflict should not matter?
<mok0> !log|mok
<ubotu> mok: Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<RAOF> bryce: Bug updated, with links to a source package and a bzr branch that you can actually pull from (stupid launchpad :()
<bryce> raof, ahh excellent, thanks.  I'll take a look at it tomorrow
<RAOF> bryce: It also contains the session files to fix the other wishlist bug.
<leonel> hello ..  I don't understand  this  apparmor  is a security addon for gutsy  and it's  in universe ..   would be better if it got  official support in main ??
<ajmitch> leonel: yes, and it is in main
<superm1> leonel, it is in main for gutsy
<leonel> woot !  downloaded   packages.bz  from universe  and  it's there ..
<leonel> checked on  packages.ubuntu.com  and its  in main
<ajmitch> the only binary package I know of that it builds for universe is apparmor-modules-source
<leonel> ajmitch:  superm1  thanks
<ajmitch> which isn't needed by most people
<leonel> that mistake  made me more paranoic ..
<leonel> paranoid ..
<leonel> thanks
<soothsayer> Is there a way to get a backtrace of a program that doesn't crash (it's stuck in a loop). A signal I can send?
<leonel>   doh !    I was downloading   packages.bz  for feisty  thinking it was  gutsy ..
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tonyyarusso> hey
<bddebian> Hello tonyyarusso
<tonyyarusso> How's it going?
<bddebian> OK thanks, you?
<MarcC> how do I get some GPL'd GIMP gradients included in a repo?
<tonyyarusso> Not that great - see my Planet post today
<minghua> MarcC: I don't know, but why would you want to get them included in Ubuntu repo instead of sending them to gimp upstream?
<MarcC> minghua: no idea really...I'll check with the gimp people, thanks
<superm1> ouch tonyyarusso, that's pretty brutal to lose
<tonyyarusso> superm1: yeah :(  Still investigating options though.
<bddebian> Gah, what category should a guitar tuning program go in??
<tonyyarusso> audio?  what are the choices?
<bddebian> That's a darn fine question.  I'm trying to find a reference for all of the categories
<_MMA_> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html#category-registry
<_MMA_> bddebian: What are you working with?
<_MMA_> fmit?
<bddebian> gtkguitune
<bddebian> Thx btw
<_MMA_> np.
<_MMA_> bddebian: It could go a couple of ways I would guess. Maybe see whats listed in fmit's .desktop?
<mayeco> we have a tribe 5!
<mayeco> nice nice :D
<coNP> Hey Ubunteros!
<dholbach> good morning
<superm1_> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey superm1!
* dholbach hugs superm1
* superm1 hugs dholbach, so today's the day to forward app to TB right :)?
<coNP> Hey superm1. I won :D
<superm1> haha coNP, so you did...
* coNP has now super cow powers.
<coNP> No, that is apt.
<dholbach> yeah, absolutely
<superm1> something about me never can understand the output of 'apt-get moo'
<coNP> Subhuman: Maybe that's why you are not a MOTU yet :D
<coNP> oh, sorry, I meant superm1
<superm1> soon enough, i guess i'll learn :)
<coNP> Good afternoon (I guess), Hobbsee!
<superm1> dholbach, perhaps you'd know, i asked a little bit before you joined in -devel, but didn't get any responses.  if you include a Section in the source part of debian/control, is that alright when uploaded to ubuntu, since ubuntu has an override system?
<Hobbsee> evening coNP!
<dholbach> superm1: yeah, absolutely ok to add it
<superm1> oh and in case my it wasn't clear in my sarcasm, congrats coNP :)
<coNP> thanks, superm1 :)
<coNP> BTW, do you know a Gnome application like KDE World Clock? :D
<Hobbsee> coNP: dont think there is one.  it'd be too useful.
<^^MAg^^> there is on in Suse SLED SP1
<superm1> dholbach, great, that will make more universe source packages to work both in ubuntu and on a PPA (since PPAs dont have overrides)
<coNP> Actually I wonder if it would be hard to port.
<Hobbsee> coNP: [17:58]  <seb128> Hobbsee: the default clock in GNOME has timezone, right click, preferences, display several timezones
<superm1> Hobbsee, woah, that is some neat stuff.  very useful
<Hobbsee> superm1: thank seb, i dont use gnome
<dholbach> superm1: I'll write to techboard now
<superm1> thx dholbach :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you'll be at the meeting in 4 hours?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: yes and running the q&a session simultaneously
<Hobbsee> ...impressive
<coNP> Wow. :)
<coNP> Is it a good practice to assign bugs to MOTU?
<Hobbsee> coNP: no
<coNP> And should they be corrected?
<Hobbsee> coNP: subscribe u-u-s if they have patches, otherwies unsubscribe motu
<Hobbsee> MOTU is a team of people - but no one actually does anything with those bugs.
<coNP> It is incomplete.
<coNP> I was wondering why it was assigned to MOTU.
<coNP> I was going to close it for there was no answer from the submitter
<coNP> Asked smart question & reassigned to myself :D
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<coNP> Hobbsee: thanks for the ONTV green light.
<coNP> This can mean my very first upload :)
<Hobbsee> then the person who marked it was likely incompetent, and didnt know what they were doing.
<Hobbsee> coNP: yay!  :)
<coNP> I guess I can dput package to ubuntu. Right?
<dholbach> you should
<Hobbsee> coNP: yep
<coNP> Too late :)
<coNP> After it got accepted I should mark the bug "fix released" and assign it to myself, right?
<Hobbsee> coNP: yeah.  or uplaod it, and mark it as fix released.
<Hobbsee> coNP: most people wont touch it, if they see it's already well in progress
<Hobbsee> coNP: of course, there are exceptions, who you are then free to enlighten on bug ettiquite
<coNP> What do you mean?
<Hobbsee> coNP: once you've uploaded the package, you can mark the bug as fix released (or use the changelog closing love)
<Hobbsee> coNP: so it doesnt really matter which bits in particualr you do - it's more for notifying anyone curious of what is happening.
<coNP> Yes. I forgot that, but will use it in the future. Yes, I also thought that "fix released" is the most important part so that poor MOTU UVF team does not need to check it again and again :)
<Hobbsee> coNP: then agian, there are some people, who i wont name names, who like going and changing bugs at random.  those you are welcome to harrass
<Hobbsee> coNP: exactly :)
<Hobbsee> er, s/harrass/politely inform about bug ettiquite, with a large brick, if needed/
<coNP> :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: what's the protocol on adding people to the MOTU council?
<Hobbsee> out of curiousity?
<Q-FUNK> didn't Ubuntu use to publish diffs as a series of split patches?
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/
<Hobbsee> coNP: or at least, that's my understanding.  i may be wrong
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: hmm... nope, that's not it.  those are unified diffs.
<coNP> BTW if I upload packages should I include the origtargz at for the first time and omit for next uploads, right?
<coNP> I mean <M>ubuntu1 with the orig.tar.gz and <M>ubuntu<N> versions without one.
<Hobbsee> coNP: if the same orig.tar.gz is in the ubuntu archive, you dont need to upload it again.
<Hobbsee> coNP: as in, so ubuntu or debian revisions you dont need to, but a new upstream release you do
<coNP> Yes. That is I was right to upload ontv orig.tar.gz, but for possible future fix uploads I don't need this again
<Hobbsee> or for a merge
<Hobbsee> yeah, i think so
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: what was the rationale behind dropping database support for planner, again?
<norsetto> morning all
<coNP> hey norsetto
* norsetto bows humbly
<norsetto> Would you guys say that this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34864/ is a MIT/Expat License? licensecheck reports it as unknown.
<Jazzva> norsetto: I wouldn't... Especially because of this: the unknown license "with or without fee", MIT/Expat "free of charge"...
<norsetto> Jazzva: yes, its more permissive
<Jazzva> And: unknown license "Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute"; MIT/Expat: "to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell"... The first one doesn't forbig the rest that's in MIT/Expat's license, but it also doesn't exclusivly permits it...
<Jazzva> *forbid
<norsetto> jazzva: actually its the "same", with or without fee and the MIT says sell
<norsetto> what the heck, I will ask to my lawyer
<Jazzva> norsetto: :)... I'm not really good in licenses...
<norsetto> jazzva: my lawyer is, she is actually specialised in software IP rights
<Jazzva> norsetto: That's good :)...
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm about to do gnome-orca/gnome-speech now. Ok if I ping you when they are ready for upload?
* coNP asks someone to check my cheese and gnome-phone-manager UVFes. Both have 1 ACKs
* norsetto bows humbly
<DarkSun88> Hi
<coNP> No. I am wrong. gnome-phone has none (bug 134229).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134229 in gnome-phone-manager "Please update gnome-phone-manager to 0.10" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134229
<norsetto> DarkSun88: Hi there
<DarkSun88> Hi norsetto
<coNP> But I stop spamming for now :)
* norsetto stops bowing too
<dholbach> TheMuso: absolutely
<norsetto> dholbach: daniel, can we have a little talk (30 sec max)?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Ok Thanks.
<dholbach> norsetto: of course
<coNP> mok0: reviewing wulfware now :)
<coNP> mok0: not advocating, but most parts seem to be okay :)
<geser> mok0: wulfware/xmlsysd: you shouldn't depend on update-inetd (which doesn't work with xinetd), it's the job of the inetsuperserver to depend on update-inetd.
<geser> mok0: and drop netkit-inetd from depends: it was replaced with openbsd-inetd and you already depend on the inet-superserver virtual package
<TheMuso> dholbach: gnome-orca: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/gnome-orca - I will have gnome-speech done shortly. Just waiting for a test build.
<geser> mok0: please use lsb functions in the init script
<dholbach> TheMuso: rock on - will check it out in a bit
<mok0> geser: elaborate, please
<mok0> geser: I don't know what lsb functions you mean and for what purpose I should call them
<StevenK> RAOF: Around?
<geser> mok0: . /lib/lsb/init-functions in you init script and use the log_*_msg functions instead of echo to print the output
<mok0> geser: Ah, ok, thx. Will do
<geser> mok0: see the other init-scripts in /etc/init.d how they use them
<TheMuso> dholbach: gnome-speech: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/gnome-speech
<Fujitsu> :O impossible, I got assigned an AM
<mok0> geser: sure
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Who was assigned to you?
<mok0> geser: did you notice anything else?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: zorglub
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> That nick doesn't ring a bell with me.
<mok0> geser: It's the most complicated package I've done yet, so there can easily be things I've missed
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK and Fujitsu into doing some reviewing
<StevenK> core-devs are exempt.
* Fujitsu hides.
<Fujitsu> Hah.
* Fujitsu wonders if he can convince someone to upload a new soundconverter to Debian.
* coNP reviews a package if Hobbsee reviews one of my UVFe requests. :)
* StevenK also hides.
<geser> mok0: as you shouldn't depend on update-inetd (there was a discussion about it on deb debian-devel-ML) you should check in xmlsysd.post{inst,rm} if update-inetd is executable
<Hobbsee> coNP: which one?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no, you're not
<coNP> Hobbsee: bug 134229
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134229 in gnome-phone-manager "Please update gnome-phone-manager to 0.10" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134229
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you cant hide.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and i'd try a DD for soundconverter
<geser> mok0: that's all I've found on a first look
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: There is a DD lurking :P
<Hobbsee> coNP: done
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed.  so do a review, then poke him
<Fujitsu> Hah.
* Fujitsu reviews.
<Hobbsee> soren: ping
<coNP> Thanks, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ping
<norsetto> Fujitsu: would you minding me into merging apt-watch?
<coNP> Do you think it is worth accepting a package that is likely to be included in Texlive in Gutsy+1 (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=23)?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: looking at the changelog, that should be a sync.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: depending on what the apt deps are
<norsetto> Hobbsee: well, the build-depends should still be updated, no?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: it's only going to be building for gutsy anyway, which will likely be higher than the version mentioned in the control file.
<Hobbsee> assuming its' only a version thing.
<Fujitsu> norsetto: I believe it will be a sync, but I haven't touched it in ages.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you did the last apt rebuild for it
<geser> norsetto: I guess the build-depends was only bumped to ensure that it got build with the recent apt at that time
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I don't think that really counts as touching.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed.
<norsetto> right, so its just a question of checking, and it it build its a sync
<Hobbsee> geser: yeah, that's the usual logic.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: buoh reviewed
<Hobbsee> geser: of course, apt's a bit of a pain of a package, so...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yay!
* Hobbsee hugs StevenK
<StevenK> Heh, I try.
<Lutin> (don't know if it should be kept but the apt version in apt-watch in not the only change, we use libgamin instead of libfam)
<Hobbsee> Lutin: then i suck.
<Hobbsee> Lutin: i wonder why i didnt mention it in the remaining changes...
<norsetto> lutin: indeed
<Lutin> + an added buildded on gdk-pixbuf
<norsetto> luting: yeah, would you know why that?
<Lutin> nope
<Lutin> Hobbsee: maybe it was part of 'Retaining ubuntu builddep changes' you mentionned
<norsetto> lutin: was checking and only libgdk-pixbuf-gnome-dev depends on it
<Hobbsee> Lutin: oh, point
<norsetto> ok, let me check how it builds with just libgamin instead of libfam
* Fujitsu has been seeing a few too many package bug lists over the past day.
<Lutin> norsetto : the libgdk-pixbuf-dev thing is no longer needed, it has to ne dropped
<coNP> Hobbsee: reviewed latex-cleveref
<norsetto> lutin: good, I just building without it :-)
<Hobbsee> coNP: \o/
* Hobbsee hugs coNP
<coNP> Hobbsee: can you please harden the state of bug 119796 with a brick? Sync has been approved by the MOTU UVF before, but it is not enough for everyone :(
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119796 in openbox "Please sync openbox (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119796
<ScottK> Hobbsee: pong
<Lutin> norsetto: actually - the builddep was removed from the debian package 2 years back
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'm looking to get our uvf people together for a meeting, but we're missing 2.
<Hobbsee> will try to get people at teh end of the meeting
<norsetto> lutin: yep, builds without any problem
<Hobbsee> coNP: looks done to me...they'll do it with confirmed.
* Hobbsee hits it with the triaged stick anyway
<Lutin> norsetto: yep. would have been weird as apt-watch doesn't use it
<coNP> Hobbsee: yes, but https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/+bug/119796/+activity shows this might change any time
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119796 in openbox "Please sync openbox (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Unknown,Fix released] 
<coNP> Why do people think they should override (1) the bug assignee, (2) the MOTU-UVF, (3) the package archive admins... :(
<Hobbsee> coNP: true.
<Hobbsee> coNP: er, who did that?
<coNP> Hobbsee: I give you 1 try.
<Hobbsee> coNP: was this before or after i yelled at him for it?
<coNP> It was right now.
<coNP> Err... it is frustrating when you work on bugs, get them approved by the MOTU-uvf and wait for the archive admins and see your bug changed back ...
<Hobbsee> Kmos: ping
<Hobbsee> coNP: agreed.
<Hobbsee> coNP: oh, he's assigned motu-uvf *again*, and changed the description?
<coNP> BTW partially he did the right thing as I forgot to put parts of the changelog into the description (because it was attached as a changelog.diff)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: hi
<Hobbsee> Kmos: can you tell me what i said to you about changing other people's bugs, including sync requests?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: not to change them.. i've added the new version to the changelog
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and subscribed motu-uvf?
<Kmos> and set motu-uvf
<Hobbsee> Kmos: why?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: how is that included in the "do not change them?"
<Kmos> maybe because need to re-check ?
<ScottK> So how is that "Not chaniging"
<mok0> geser: I was away, I saw your comment on update-inetd
<ScottK> Which big is it?
<Kmos> ScottK: I only do that because I see a new version
<Hobbsee> Kmos: no, it doesnt.  remember that people *usually* know what they're doing.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: so to go and hijack their bug is Very Bad (tm)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: *usually*, i only try to help..
<Hobbsee> Kmos: especially without asking them first.
<ScottK> Kmos: You were told "Don't change", you understand that, and yet you do it anyway.
<Kmos> ok..
<ScottK> Not OK.
<coNP> I am *usually* available here. And *usually* ask for a sync from the latest version.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: well, you annoy people when you hijack bugs.  you may want to help in another way (like, working on bugs that people arent already working on)
<ScottK> coNP: Which bug number?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox/+bug/119796
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119796 in openbox "Please sync openbox (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Unknown,Fix released] 
<ScottK> Thanks.
<coNP> ScottK: actually you approved that :)
<coNP> With Hobbsee together.
<ScottK> Right.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: usually, the updater will ask us if it needs a re-request, or if anything else needs to happen.  you dont need to come and do that.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: (because they likely already have, and it's not documented on the bug)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i don't know that one :(
<Hobbsee> Kmos: dont understand, or did not know previously?
<mok0> geser: so I check if update-inetd is executable, but what if it isn't? Abort or try to salvage?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: don't know really
<ScottK> Kmos: WHat part of don't change other people's bugs is confusing you?
<Kmos> coNP: first sorry again :( i think i'm doing something to help
<coNP> Kmos: thumb rule. If the bug is assigned to someone or to some team do not ever change its state.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: dont know *now*, or didn't know *then*?
<Kmos> ScottK: not anymore..
* Hobbsee attempts to crack the language barrier.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: I know now :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: cool :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: then i hope we wont have to have this discussion again :)
<ScottK> Kmos: I doubt it.  You know until the next time you think it would be helpful to ...
<Kmos> Hobbsee: I hope too
<Hobbsee> ScottK: calm down...
* coNP as well :)
<Kmos> ScottK is always a bit nervous
<Kmos> with me, ofcourse :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: he's seen too much of your screwups, and is skeptical of whether you've learned
<norsetto> lutin: bug 134490. do you want to sponsor it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134490 in apt-watch "Please merge apt-watch (0.3.2-9) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134490
<Kmos> Hobbsee: people are not perfect and do mistakes.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: indeed.  which is why "ask questions first, act later" :)
<mok0> geser: forget about last question I understand it now
<Hobbsee> Kmos: but as long as you keep learning, you'll be fine
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i think that too
<Kmos> i'm waiting for ddclient for long time and nothing was been done
<Hobbsee> Kmos: it's in the queue.
<Hobbsee> like many things
<Kmos> if I ask here for it again.. someone kill me
<Hobbsee> quite likely.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: currently is not working at ubuntu..
<Hobbsee> someone will get to the queue
<Kmos> because you the dyndns.com stuff
<Kmos> *of
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i'm still waiting and doing other stuff :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: cool. pick bugs that others *arent* already working on.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: there are 30000 in the system, i'm sure you can find some :)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i understand that :) don't need to mention again
<Hobbsee> i think
<\sh> hmm...
<Kmos> i've 248 on my bug list
<Hobbsee> cool
<Hobbsee> nice
<Kmos> :)
<\sh> social problems can't be solved technical ;)
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in ~15 minutes!
<TheMuso> dholbach: Isn't there the meeting as well?
<Fujitsu> Erm, meeting, isn't it?
<dholbach> meeting in #u-meeting
<dholbach> Q&A session #u-motu
<dholbach> sorry for the confusion and double booking
<Fujitsu> That sounds slightly counter-productive.
<dholbach> that was entirely my fault
<dholbach> it's just too late to change now and the meeting agenda seems short anyway
<Hobbsee> dholbach: so another daed meeting.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it's important we have them regularly
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it's important there is life in them
<TheMuso> the agenda is only fixed items
<dholbach> we won't make up agenda items just for the sake of it :)
* norsetto wonders if it is possible having the Q&A sessions as an agenda item
<TheMuso> norsetto: You could mention it under other business.
<coNP> You should ask this question when the Q&A session begins :)
<norsetto> oh my god, just got an email from the IRS!!!
<norsetto> wife just called for lunch, will be a bit late in both events (not that anyone will notice :-))
<mok0> geser: so, summarizing, 1) dependencies and 2) post* scripts?
<mok0> geser: never mind, looking at revu now
<coNP> mok0: I also sent some comments to REVU
<dholbach> welcome to the MOTU Q&A sessions!
<dholbach> so who of you is currently going through the MOTU Mentoring process or plans to become a MOTU soon?
* coNP runs away...
<dholbach> coNP just recently joined the MOTUs and did great work on the Desktop - if you have desktop questions, be sure to ask him :)
* dholbach makes a note to assign reviews to coNP in the future :)
* dholbach hears no objections
<dholbach> :-)
* mok0 puts up his hand
<dholbach> does anybody have packaging related questions? problems with any packages?
<dholbach> hey mok0 - how are you doing?
<mok0> Working on the wulfware package.
<dholbach> mok0: nice - is that a new package?
<mok0> Yes, a suite of programs for monitoring a cluster
<dholbach> woah rocking
<dholbach> did anybody help you with getting that rolling?
<mok0> We've used it here for several years
* jrib is here just to see what others ask
<dholbach> welcome jrib - if you have any questions or anything, just shout :)
<dholbach> mok0: so how is packaging it coming along?
<mok0> It's close to being ready. There are a few outstanding issues with init scripts and maintainer scripts
<mok0> The package contains an inetd controlled daemon
<mok0> ... it complicates matters that you cant ccount on xinetd being installed... :-(
<dholbach> right :-/
<dholbach> but it sounds like you're doing well
<dholbach> who did reviews of your package up until now?
<mok0> I'm on top up it ;-)
<dholbach> good :)
<mok0> I have ~10 years of RedHat experience
<dholbach> norsetto did some great work on organising mentoring and packaging himself - do you have any questions?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: can i have a pony?
<geser> what do you want a pony for?
<Hobbsee> i want a psychic pony to do everything i want.
<bigon> could someone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=57 (it's a new pkg)
<dholbach> ok, in absence of other questions, let's have a look all together at bigon's package
<mok0> What does it do?
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<geser> Hobbsee: too late, that one is already given away: http://loldebian.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/pony-small1.png
<mok0> So, we use dget to download it?
<dholbach> dget -x http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/tapioca-glib-0708240240/tapioca-glib_0.14.0.2~svn20070727-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Hobbsee> geser: heh :P
<dholbach> bigon: I notice that debian/copyright mentions LGPL 2 and it's 2.1 in the header of files
<dholbach> I have the following script in ~/bin/check-copyright             "find . -name '*.java' -name '*.pl' -name '*.pm' -name '*.c' -o -name '*.h' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.cc' -o -name '*.hh' -o -name '*.py' | xargs head | less"
<dholbach> and find that helpful with reviewing
<mok0> dholbach: what's the copyright on your script :-)
<dholbach> hehe, public domain ;)
<dholbach> configure.in has 0.14.0, but debian/changelog "tapioca-glib (0.14.0.2~svn20070727-0ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low"
<Hobbsee> dholbach: is that in the developer tools in bzr?
<dholbach> sorry, need to close the windows, thunderstorm coming up
<dholbach> Hobbsee: dunno yet
<geser> aren't -dbg packages created automatically so no need to create them in debian/control?
<dholbach> yeah, we have -dbgsym packages, so for Ubuntu that's a bit pointless
<mok0> It's GPL 2.1 and not 2 as debian/copyright says
<ScottK> mok0: You mean LGPL 2.1?
<geser> bigon: you can drop the -dbg package
<dholbach> bigon: how did you generate the tarball?
* mok0 checks again
<mok0> copyright says LGPL2
<bigon> geser: well debian don't generate debug packages
<mok0> script says LGPL2.1
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> is this package in debian already?
<soren> Hobbsee: pong
<geser> ah, I see it now. It's an update for an existing package and not a completely new one
<bigon> dholbach: in the new queue
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> apart from that it looks ok to me
<dholbach> just running a test build
<Hobbsee> soren: uvf team is getting together to decide on some things soonish.  got a preferred time?
<mok0> my pbuilder has some problems locating dependencies
<soren> Hobbsee: Soonish as in "a few hours" or as in "a few days"?
<Hobbsee> soren: either.  please see -meeting
<mok0> intltool_0.35.5-4_all.deb  Unable to fetch file
<dholbach> can somebody reactivate my account on REVU?
<dholbach> mok0: are you on feisty?
<mok0> In debian/control, I see a field "Uploaders:" -- is that used in Ubuntu?
<geser> dholbach: did you tried to recover your (new) password?
<dholbach> mok0: no, it's not; but as this is a package that goes into Debian, it makes sense for them and we keep it
<dholbach> geser: yes, it says "None"
<dholbach> hey _czessi
<Hobbsee> dholbach: which address did you use to register?
<mok0> OK, and same for "XS-Vcs-Bzr:" ??
<dholbach> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=dh@mailempfang.de
<dholbach> mok0: no, we use that too
<dholbach> mok0:    apt-get source   tells you about it, when you're about to get source for a package
<dholbach> does anybody else have questions about packaging or a different package?
* coNP is here again. And does not complain if he has to review some packages. At least not for now :)
<mok0> What does the priority field mean?
<dholbach> mok0: nothing to Ubuntu
<mok0> I've been told to put "Optional" in there
<mok0> this one has "extra"
<dholbach> we override it anyway, as far as I know the only difference it makes is using 'essential'
<dholbach> dpkg will inform you about that, when you try to purge an essential package
<mok0> ... which nothing in universe is, I guess...
* norsetto scrollsback
<xxxxx1> morning people
<dholbach> geser, Hobbsee: any idea on why I can't login?
<dholbach> hi xxxxx1
<xxxxx1> hey dholbach :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah.
<coNP> Hey xxxxx1
<dholbach> uh-huh?
<xxxxx1> coNP !
<geser> dholbach: no, you need siretart or sistpoty for help
<Hobbsee> dholbach: is it time critical?
<Hobbsee> geser: i should be able to do it as well
<coNP> dholbach: I guess if you upload something you can get your password back.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: no, I would just have liked to comment the package with the few things we found
<dholbach> bigon: did you file a needs-packaging bug for that package? if so, I would add my comments there
<dholbach> coNP: aha?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: cool.  i cant fiddle with REVU and run a meeting point at the same time, unfortunately
* dholbach just uploaded something to REVU to see if that makes it work
<dholbach> does anybody else have questions about packaging or a different package?
<bigon> dholbach: no I didn't
<dholbach> bigon: ok, then I'm sorry, I can't add those comments
<mok0> I'd like to ask about the init script, then
<mok0> I'll pastebin it, hang on
<dholbach> fire away
<norsetto> sorry guys, was having lunch
<mok0> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34882/
<mok0> geser tells me to use lsb functions, is that a complete rewrite?
<dholbach> no, it's just in the messages iirc
<bigon> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/134504
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134504 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  tapioca-glib" [Undecided,New] 
<Hobbsee> dholbach: did it work?
<jrib> here's a question: how hard is it to rename a package?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: try another p/w recover
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it was not accepted yet
<dholbach> jrib: just the binary package or the source package?
<jrib> dholbach: binary
<dholbach> jrib: in any case you have to make sure that rdepends are fixed
* Hobbsee notes that dholbach could technically go and change it himself
<geser> mok0: no, just source /lib/lsb/init-functions and use the log_*_msg functions instead of echo for output. the rest is the same
<dholbach> jrib: you have to make sure that you have proper replaces/conflicts
<dholbach> jrib: and you might have to tell the archive admins that push it into main if it was there before, etc
<mok0> geser: got it
<dholbach> jrib: I think that's about it
<jrib> thanks
<dholbach> ok super - any other questions?
* norsetto raise an hand
<dholbach> looks like we get a lot of stuff tackled in here :)
<dholbach> norsetto: shoot
<norsetto> well, its not really a technical question
<dholbach> hat's ok
<dholbach> that's ok :)
* norsetto thinks technical questions are easy :-)
<norsetto> I've stumbled against some packages while doing merges/sync/updates etc.
<norsetto> which, quite frankly, were in a bit of a bad shape
<dholbach> bad shape as in how?
<dholbach> outdated upstream version?
<dholbach> 'old-fashioned packaging'?
<norsetto> well, full of warning/errors, bad licenses, missing dependancies, etc.
<norsetto> bad changelogs, you name it ....
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> the thing is: if you do those changes, we have to carry the diff
<norsetto> now, what is the best course of action? suppose its just a merge, should the packager also correct these errors?
<norsetto> dholbach: exactly
<dholbach> for example I would not do an ubuntu1 upload just change the Standard-Version from 3.5.2 to 3.7.1
<dholbach> if it's something that's important and makes a difference for our users
<dholbach> or helps to clarify the license or something
<dholbach> then I'd do that change
<dholbach> try to be pragmatic about it
<norsetto> dholbach: right, but what about licenses?
<norsetto> dholbach: the user don't really care
<dholbach> of course, but we do
<dholbach> Canonical might get in trouble for shipping wrong license information
<dholbach> or we'd have to remove it from the archive or things like that
<norsetto> well, we do have some packages which are a mess license-wise ....
<gnomefreak> anyone have the address for fridge meetings? ive been all over the site nad still cant find the schedule
<norsetto> we just inherit from debian
<dholbach> if you really want the package to be in a good shape and are not afraid to carry the diff for a while and really care abou it, do the changes and forward the patches to the debian bts
<dholbach> gnomefreak: fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> norsetto: we can only fix packages we come across
<gnomefreak> dholbach: sorry i meant web address im trying to set my calendar to the meetins schdule
<dholbach> gnomefreak: hang on
<dholbach> webcal://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<gnomefreak> ah ty
<dholbach> any other questions?
<dholbach> any packages? packaging problems? unclear documentation? processes?
<norsetto> yes, actually it would be nice to have some feedback on docs
<ScottK> mok0: One other comment on your init script: In Ubuntu /var/run is a tempfs, so your init can't assume that the PID dir will exist.
<dholbach> norsetto: fire away
<norsetto> dholbach: well, I was hoping to get questions :-)
<ScottK> mok0: Also the PID file should go in /var/run/packagename, not /var/run directly.
<dholbach> norsetto: ah ok :)))
* dholbach hugs norsetto
<dholbach> everybody hug norsetto :)
<porthose> do you still have to be a beta tester to get a ppa
<norsetto> oh OH
* norsetto hugs back everybody
<dholbach> porthose: "You must be an Ubuntero (i.e. have signed the Ubuntu Community Code of Conduct), a member of the Launchpad Beta Testers team and have uploaded your GPG key all in your user profile in the dogfood environment."
<dholbach> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<dholbach> porthose: so I recommend talking to mrevell on #launchpad about that
<norsetto> I would perhaps add a reference in the wiki pages to the debian policy; its really a basic document that every packager should know by heart (I think)
<porthose> k thanks
<\sh> dholbach, which is useless...no commercial vendor will sign the CoC ,-)
<dholbach> \sh: it's far from useless
<dholbach> norsetto: I think it's in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation - no?
<norsetto> dholbach: hmmm, don't think so
<\sh> dholbach, let's say it the other way around: it makes no sense...PPAs right now are not useful for third party vendors..or for community people like the motus who are providing packages with universe build-deps...right?
<\sh> (regarding the documentation of PPAs from 1.1.8 changelog)
<Hobbsee> \sh: you can use the overrides
<norsetto> I mean, whenever I have a doubt, 90% of the time the answer is there, ready to be read
<dholbach> \sh: why are they not useful for MOTUs?
<dholbach> norsetto: exactly
<\sh> dholbach, regarding the documentation (quick start guide) it tells the reader that universe/multiverse can't be used for building, just packages from main
<dholbach> norsetto: if it's not on there, we should definitely add it in a prominent place
<norsetto> dholbach: ok, I'll take care of that
<\sh> if LP would be so nice to respond my http request...I could underline that with a quote...but
<dholbach> \sh: where does it say that?
<\sh> dholbach, they changed it
<norsetto> dholbach: i would also like to pump up a bit the FAQ, anything you guys would like to see addressed there?
<dholbach> \sh: ok good
<dholbach> norsetto: we should ask people who get their questions answered on ubuntu-motu-mentors@ to write a small paragraph on that page :)
<ScottK> norsetto: Don't take stuff out.  Last time someone pimped the FAQ I had to go back and put some technically important stuff back in.
<dholbach> ScottK: I thought norsetto wanted to *add* stuff? :)
<\sh> ah no
<norsetto> indeed
<ScottK> dholbach: That's what he said, just making sure.
<\sh> dholbach, Quote: "Dependencies: Your package's Build-Depends will always be satisfied using:
<\sh>     *
<\sh>       the latest packages from the PPA you're uploading to
<\sh>     *
<\sh>       the main Ubuntu archive.
<dholbach> ok
<\sh> "
<soren> main Ubuntu archive != Ubuntu main archive :)
<dholbach> \sh: I doubt that means 'main'
<dholbach> \sh: but you have a point - that should be clarified
<dholbach> \sh: would you be so kind and raise that with mrevell?
<\sh> he's on launchpad?
<dholbach> yes and he should be on freenode
<dholbach> ok thanks everybody for this great Q&A session
<dholbach> keep on asking questions in here
<Hobbsee> \sh: he just came off lunch
<dholbach> and on ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> I'm going for lunch now, so see you all around later
<dholbach> thanks again!
<norsetto> thanks dholbach, thx all
<TheMuso> dholbach, highvoltage, norsetto, since I have not heard back from one of my mentors, I'd like to consider one of my mentoring slots open, assuming I don't hear anything in the next few days.
<TheMuso> s/mentors/pupils/
<\sh> ok...ppa quickstart guide updated
<tsmithe> man-di, did you get my latest e-mail? (i sent it through gmail smtp rather than my local postfix, still gotta fix that)
<highvoltage> TheMuso: ok, we'll make a slot available. thank you.
* coNP reviewed 
<coNP> reviewed rotoscope, indeed :)
<ScottK> tsmithe: You might consider giving him a hint when you sent it...
<tsmithe> man-di, Yesterday, 20:50 UTC
<man-di> tsmithe: nope
<tsmithe> hmmph
<tsmithe> man-di, ok it should have sent this time
<man-di> tsmithe: got it now
<tsmithe> yay
<porthose> MOTU's could you please review/advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=28 thank you
<Hobbsee> porthose: why not just request a sync for it?
<porthose> Hobbsee:  ????
<Hobbsee> porthose: oh, i thought it was in debian, looking at this.
<coNP> http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/ampache.html 404s
<Hobbsee> debian bug #407337
<ubotu> Debian bug 407337 in wnpp "ITP: ampache -- For The Love Of Music" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/407337
<Hobbsee> porthose: are you pushing that to debian or ubuntu?
<coNP> ScottK: what do you mean "upload when ready"
<coNP> bug 134229
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134229 in gnome-phone-manager "Please update gnome-phone-manager to 0.10" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134229
<ScottK> coNP: The UVFe is approved.
<ScottK> You are a MOTU, so you can upload it.
<coNP> I see. Then I might misunderstood your final sentence
<ScottK> The "when ready" part was because you're new I didn't want you to feel rushed.
<coNP> I see. Thanks :)
<coNP> I guess I am ready now :)
<porthose> Hobbsee:  both If I can
<Hobbsee> porthose: eaiser to get it into debian and sync
<Hobbsee> porthose: else it has to go thru NEW twice
<ScottK> Hobbsee, soren, StevenK, and zul: I've gone through and converted all the existing UVFe from assignments to subscriptions as decided at the meeting today. https://bugs.launchpad.net/~motu-uvf/+subscribedbugs
<soren> ScottK: Cool.
<StevenK> ScottK: Great.
<ScottK> StevenK: Bug 129591 and Bug 129593 got taken care of today.  Progress.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129591 in python-f2py "Please remove python-f2py from Gutsy" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129591
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129593 in python-scipy-core "Please remove python-scipy-core from Gutsy" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129593
<porthose> Hobbsee:  so go through debian first?
<Hobbsee> porthose: probably easier to, yes
<ScottK> Hobbsee: But if he does that, it won't be in Gutsy.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: we're not granting uvfe's for that?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: for "it got stuck in the debian NEW queue?"
<ScottK> Dunno.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's still less work doing that then getting the ubuntu guys to do a NEW inspection, then debian repeating that work.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<porthose> Hobbsee:  sorry to waste your time.  Thanks
<Hobbsee> porthose: no problem
* Hobbsee archives
<Hobbsee> porthose: you can request a sync of it when it gets into debian (and get a UVFe at the same time)
<porthose> Hobbsee:  archive Themeampache also It is a theme package for ampache
<Hobbsee> ScottK: if we dont, it sounds like "beaurocracy for beaurocracy's sake, instead of using sense"
<ScottK> Understand.
<Hobbsee> porthose: ah, thanks.  archived too.  you're getting both into debian?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: which i dislike :)
* ScottK too.
<porthose> Hobbsee: trying to
<Hobbsee> porthose: cool :)
* coNP hugs porthose and wishes him good luck :)
<porthose> ***porthose hugs coNP back
<Lutin> ScottK: about gmountiso: there is no upstream changelog and the install log _is_ actually included in the buildlog
<ScottK> Ah
* ScottK looks again.
<ScottK> Lutin: Acked and sorry about that.  You might consider adding a CHANGES file for your next release.
<Lutin> ScottK: I'm no upstream, but I'll tell him :)
<ScottK> OK
<coNP> Where can I look if there is an ITP for a given package?
<ScottK> ajmitch: The rc bug list seems to have vanished....
<ScottK> coNP: Look in Debian BTS in the wnpp pseudo package.
<coNP> Thanks. I found that since
<geser> ScottK: that only means no bugs to fix :)
<coNP> Okay. What to do with a package that has an earlier version that has been removed from Debian (because of no rdepends).
<coNP> I mean http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=20
<Hobbsee> coNP: which package?
* Hobbsee WTF's over ddclient.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i agree with you.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> coNP: why did it get removed from debian?
<coNP> I don't see too much point of a lib without programs using it. Especially now...
<coNP> If I understand them correctly, because of there were / are no rdepends.
<coNP> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=349254
<ubotu> Debian bug 349254 in ftp.debian.org "RM: gtkglextmm -- Ro??; RC buggy; no rev-deps" [Normal,Open] 
<ScottK> Plus it had bad bugs.
<azeem> the version number is dubious, aren't gnome-- packages more or less in sync with gnome upstream version numbers?
<coNP> azeem: _more_or_less_
<Hobbsee> coNP: any idea if it's anyone's archive day today?
<Hobbsee> coNP: usually just file a bug stating that, and tha tit has no rdepends, to remove source and binaries, and subscribe u-a
<Hobbsee> coNP: but it may be pitti's archive day, in which case he may just want to fix it
<coNP> Hobbsee: wait.
<Hobbsee> coNP: oh, wait, screw that.  it's not in ubuntu.
<azeem> this is about whether it should get in
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks for letting us know
<Hobbsee> dont mind me.  trying to figure out ddclient has sent my brain insane.
<coNP> azeem: exactly.
<coNP> I asked why this package is needed.
<coNP> I think it will be all right for now (= between tribe 5 and 6)
<ScottK> dholbach: I pushed swfdec 0.5 back from motu-uvf to uus because it's a new package.
<dholbach> ScottK: oh ok
<zorglu_> q. there is a nice little oneclick installer called, glick. the author doesnt have the time to maintain it, or package it. glick is nice work because you just copy a single file on your disk and you can execute the package (no need to preinstall a packaging system). it would be a nice alternative to dpkg. it wont be cool to have such a nice stuff to go to waste due to the author lack of time. anybody volunteering to get this packaged ?
<zorglu_> http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2007/08/23/glick-02-released/   for more info
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: there's already 0install, and it'll probably be rejected for the same reason as klik was
<azeem> the glick author is a Gnome VIP though
<azeem> so maybe after he released 1.0 it might be worth a look
<zorglu_> azeem: the stuff is already working. but rougth. and alex doesnt have the time to maintain it
<azeem> zorglu_: maintain what?
<azeem> he's not a Debian/Ubuntu guy, so he won't maintain .debs I assume
<zorglu_> azeem: glick. like to do a wiki, the pacakge for all the distro, maintain a doc etc....
<azeem> ah, ok
* ScottK wonders why on earth we should care if an upstream author is a Gnome big shot?
<geser> coNP: I'm looking on gtkglextmm on REVU: don't ship .la files unless you have a good reason
<coNP> geser: I am not the one who made that package
<zorglu_> currently glick is a blog entry and a working code. if nobody package it, do web site it wont go beyond this
<azeem> ScottK: because that might imply he's not a random guy on crack
<geser> coNP: sorry
<ScottK> It might.
<zorglu_> azeem: any idea on how i could find somebody to do that
<zorglu_> well i dont care about the author, i care about the project :)
<azeem> ScottK: I didn't say "include whatever he does without review"
<ScottK> But it also says nothing about understanding anything about how Debian distros are built.
<coNP> geser: np. I was just wondering why we need that package...
<azeem> zorglu_: he should just use the usual Gnome infrastructure
<ScottK> From my perspective anything that says "Please ignore the packaging system, Trust me.  It'll be fine." is random crack until proven otherwise.
<zorglu_> azeem: he got no time. as in if nobody takes over, the stuff will remain a blog entry
<ScottK> Sounds good to me.
<Lamego> azeem, what is glick about ?
<zorglu_> ScottK: well some people would like to publish linux software without passing a LOT of time doing all the packages for all the distributions
<azeem> Lamego: 0install
<azeem> sort of
<Lamego> ok, i don't like it :P
<zorglu_> ScottK: one click installer do provide this oportunity
<ScottK> And they are welcome to do that, but I don't think we should be publishing the tools to make it easy for people to break their systems.
<azeem> zorglu_: he just released 0.2, the project isn't quite dead yet
<ScottK> Either the packaging system is needed or it's not.  Pick one.
<zorglu_> azeem: hehe he got no time to work on it :)
<zorglu_> ScottK: no black and white
<zorglu_> ScottK: easy install got advantage, full blown apt stuff got others
<azeem> Lamego: http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl
<ScottK> Not 100%, but close.  I think you've got to either respect the packaging system or know what you are doing.
<ScottK> One click ignore the packaging system is a recipe for disaster.
<Lamego> azeem, I don't like the 0install concept of software distribution
<zorglu_> ok what is so bad in providing easy to install software ?
<azeem> I'm not letting myself dragged into this discussion
<Lamego> zorglu_, nothing, that is why that is already available on most of the distributions :)
<coNP> If I review an application that segfaults at the startup should I mention this? (i.e., should I assume that it is the fault of upstream / the packager or that my system is on crack)?
<ScottK> zorglu_: What's easier than apt-get install X?  The issue isn't the easyness of the isntall.
<ScottK> coNP: Aboslutely
<zorglu_> Lamego: have you tried to publish a software on linux ? :) like doing 10 packages, going thru all the stuff. it takes a LOT of time
<Lamego> Zombie, sure, I do that everyday :)
<white> coNP: nah, applications segfault is a feature for most of the applications around ;)
<ScottK> zorglu_: We already have gdebi and gdebi-kde for easy install of properly packaged stuff that's not in the official repositories.
<zorglu_> ScottK: before reaching apt, it require a lot of time
<zorglu_> gdebi to require the .deb
<ScottK> Yes, but that's unrelated to how easy it is to install.
<zorglu_> aka the revue queue
<ScottK> Yep.
<zorglu_> etc...
<ScottK> Nope/
<zorglu_> you know the stuff which is so slow that it is a problem ?
<ScottK> You can make your own .deb and distribute them.
<Lamego> Zombie, it takes a lot of time, specially if you are not specialized on building packages for a particular distribution or using a particular build system
<zorglu_> Lamego: exactly! and now you multiplies that by all distributions
<zorglu_> Lamego: how long does it takes ? :)
<ScottK> People doing the 0install/one click whatever just want to avoid the packaging work.  It's nothing to do with ease of installation.
<zorglu_> Lamego: just me publishing on ubuntu took me like 2weeks (im a coder not a packager)
<ScottK> Which gets right back to either the packaging work is needed or not.
<zorglu_> Lamego: supporting redhat/suse etc.. is out of question. because i dont have the boxes to install them all
<zorglu_> ScottK: and no black and white
<Lamego> zorglu_, that is why I use only one distribution, and I am only concerned on that particular distro I am using ;) anyway I understand the benefits of 0install, autopackage, etc, but, they are not able to meet their goals
<zorglu_> ScottK: apt got advantage, one click installer got others
<ScottK> WHat is the one click advantage?
<Lamego> zorglu_, well, those 2 weeks, are Ubuntu QA & Processes, that is not related to package or building, that is related to processes and QA
<zorglu_> Lamego: well im publishing linux software, and i want people to use them independantly of their distribution :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: no :) i didnt go thru ubuntu, i made my own repository
<ScottK> zorglu_: We are a distribution and we don't want your crack to break our users stuff.
<ScottK> I think I'm done here.
<Lamego> zorglu_, well, 2 weeks to build one package :P ?
<zorglu_> ScottK: apt got version/dependancy, one click got easy to publish in all distrib (so much faster to get the package for the user)
<zorglu_> Lamego: well it takes that much believe me, you have to learn all the stuff
<ScottK> zorglu_: Ask yourself why it has version dependencies?  They are mandatory.  Generally they are there for a good reason.
<ScottK> are/aren't mandatory.
<ScottK> urgh.
<zorglu_> ScottK: i agree with you, only external dependancy are mandatory
<Lamego> zorglu_, I build about 10 packages per week, they do not follow Ubuntu/Debian restrict requirements, neither do they meet the same quality level, but, they do work and never broke any system (so far)
<ScottK> Lamego: That you know of.
<zorglu_> ScottK: and you should not suppose that people write software to break other people boxes
<ScottK> I don't know the details of how you do stuff in your .debs, but others have done stuff that works fine until the user tries to upgrade later.
<zorglu_> Lamego: well during this week, i do write the software :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: im a coder not a packager
<Lamego> zorglu_, in my case, I am no longer a coder, and just a packager ;)
<ScottK> zorglu_: I get the impression that you don't really understand why we do packaging.
<ScottK> I'm pretty sure the answer to your original question is No, BTW.
<zorglu_> Lamego: put yourself in my shoes :) i have the software and want to publish it ?:)
<zorglu_> ScottK: well you jsut mean taht you dont want to do it, may other will :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, anyway, I missed the initial subject, is this about the glick packaging :P ?
<zorglu_> Lamego: yep, and me willing to have somehting to make it easy for people to publish software
<ScottK> It's pretty clear I don't.  You're right, someone else might, but I haven't seem anyone jumping up and volunteering.
<zorglu_> easier than doing the X pacakges for the X distributions :)
<zorglu_> X being 4 at min, and like 150 at max :)
<zorglu_> and it would reduce the revue queue
<zorglu_> aka less 'obsolete' package in apt
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok lets forget the one click installer then
<Lamego> ScottK, in theory, any non official packages or specific system customization may break dist upgrades,  still that depends on the quality of the packages, being unoffical does not mean, problematic
<zorglu_> Lamego: what are the other possibility for me ? a tgz in /opt ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, I love one click installers, I love gdebi :)
<Lamego> I love, one click install, for one distribution :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: me too! lets have one now :)
<zorglu_> ok more seriously
<zorglu_> Lamego: what are the other possibility for me ? a tgz in /opt ? <- what can i do ? any suggestion
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you mean, for all linux distros, then we will get into that, over-debated question, why do we have, rpm, deb, .tgz, ubuntu, redhate, suse, etc
<zorglu_> well yes i mean to publish the stuff on linux, so all big distro
<zorglu_> Lamego: what are my alternatives ? tgz in /opt with some script on the website ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, or you believe that some day, all the big distros will converge to common polices, or you don't
<zorglu_> Lamego: well i dont want to wait for them to publish my softwares :)
<zorglu_> what can i do today
<Lamego> zorglu_, you must follow the static building approach, and still, for specific software, you will need to know each system specifics, for things like setting up services
<Lamego> or identifying if a specific external runtime requirement is met on that particular distro
<zorglu_> Lamego: i already worked on it and run in chroot :)
<zorglu_> i want it to be easy to install
<ScottK> Lamego: I agree.  I like you doing .debs (even if they aren't perfect) over unpackaged stuff.
<ScottK> zorglu_: If it's packaged it IS easy to install.  You don't want easy install (we have that) what you want is to avoid the packaging work.
<zorglu_> ScottK: ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you want a one click installer, for multiple distros, user autopackage or 0install, or a similar approach
<Lamego> use
<zorglu_> ScottK: no i want to publish the software
<ScottK> You said you want easy install.  We have that.  It's not what you want.
<zorglu_> ScottK: my goal is not to crack people computer
<zorglu_> ScottK: no idea what make you think it is my goal
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you want to publish the software, for all distros, we can't help much, if you want to build for ubuntu, we can :P
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok how long to get a given software in the ubuntu repo ?
<ScottK> zorglu_: You keep saying you want easy install, but we have that already, so it makes no sense.
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you want your software available on the ubuntu repositories, it will take some weeks, or it may not even enter on this release, which means, months
<zorglu_> Lamego: hehe you got my point :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you want to provide it, on a single .deb install, it can take 1h :)
<geser> ScottK, Hobbsee: a new upstream version of zeroc-ice-csharp slipped though and it build-depends on a newer icestorm (newer zeroc-ice)
<Lamego> if you software uses autotools, 1h, to be available for all ubuntu users, from an untrusted source, a web site :D
<ScottK> zorglu_: As long as neither Debian nor Ubuntu are frozen, I can release, get a package into Debian, sync'ed into Ubuntu in less than a week.
<zorglu_> ScottK: man you are definitly agressive
<zorglu_> ScottK: no idea what i did to you
<zorglu_> ScottK: relax take a beer or something
<ScottK> zorglu_: You hit one of my pet peeves on a day I'm grumpy anyway.
<Lamego> zorglu_, he does the same to me, but he is not agressive, he just has an aggressive stule of communication :P
<Lamego> style
<ScottK> Lamego: You have no idea.  I'm actually restraining myself.
<zorglu_> Lamego: well he should read the code of conduct once more then
<geser> ScottK, Hobbsee: upload the old version as 3.2.1.is.3.2.0 or sync the rest of zeroc-ice too (8 further source packages)?
<zorglu_> ScottK: me too, but i definitly better at that :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, does your software uses autotools, do you want to make your software available in the next hour ? It will be available to 10k ubunt users, in 1 day :P
<ScottK> zorglu_: We are merely having a spirited discussion.  I haven't accused you of anything.  You seem to read more into what I say than what I say.
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok so it is the average delay. say a week to be more realistice
<Lamego> zorglu_, i am not refering to ubuntu repositories :)
<zorglu_> ScottK: well i disagree
<Lamego> I am refering, to one click install :)
<Lamego> for ubuntu users, only
<zorglu_> Lamego: so you mean like doing the .deb ?
<Lamego> sure
<zul> one click install dont you mean like gdebi?
<zorglu_> ah ok, well i got the .deb already :) you remember the 2weeks ? :)
<zul> *sheesh*
<Hobbsee> geser: hmmm...
<Lamego> zorglu_, so why don't you make it available ?
<zorglu_> zul: well it works IIF you run gnome and you got proper mimetype everywhere :) aka not yet happened
<Hobbsee> geser: i'd guess that we'd want to sync the rest.
<Lamego> zorglu_, it works, if you have Ubuntu >= 6.06 installed
<zorglu_> Lamego: well you see im trying to for like 30min now. the one click installer was about that
<zorglu_> Lamego: i got kubuntu 7.04
<Hobbsee> geser: as we probably dont want to support the old versions either
<geser> Hobbsee: ok, I'll prepare the necessary UVFe to bring the zeroc-ice packages in sync
<ScottK> geser: As long as it's a sane upgrade, I'd say go ahead and sync.
<Lamego> zorglu_, I have no experience with Kubuntu, but I guess .debs come associated to some single click installer.. I guess..
<zorglu_> Lamego: well guess again :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: but ok you can download it from the web and do dpkg -i
<Hobbsee> Lamego: they do
<Lamego> zorglu_, like I said, I am refering to one distro, one flavor :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: like your personnal box only :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, you don't need to downlaod them, and open the terminal, because, by defaylt, they will be installed by a package manager
<Hobbsee> even in feisty, there was a "right click, install package" option
<Lamego> who ever decided to provide that as default on Ubuntu, was sure of the security concerns, of a single click installations, but still made it available
<Lamego> which means, your particular problem, maybe relevant to other distros, it is not, for Ubuntu :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: well here, it is click and the usual 'do you wanna save this file or do ark on it'
<Hobbsee> Lamego: and we reject all bugs from such packages
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: see the part about "right click, install package"
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well i hope i could see it :)
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: oh i see, you assume i run konqueror
<Lamego> Hobbsee, sure, who ever provides packages, is responsible for them, ubuntu* or not :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: no, actually
<Hobbsee> well, you can do it from the desktop too
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well firefox doesnt have that for sure
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: this is true.   it's a kde thing.
<Lamego> zorglu_, I assume, you do a standard installation, because if you don't have a standard installation, then, I don't understand your concern, with one click installer, for non standard users
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well i dont want to enter in 'khtml and its support of current web page' either
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: i was assuming you dont use firefox as a file browser.
<zorglu_> Lamego: well i do run a plain kubuntu 7.04. where all packages comes from ubuntu repository
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: the upshot of this discussion, though, is that MOTU does not wish to even vaguely support glick, etc, or other methods of 1 click install, than what we have now
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: ? firefox is a web browser
<Lamego> well, how does kubuntu handlers .debs clicks from the default browser ?
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: exactly, which is why you're likely using konqueror, and the right click "install package" from konqueror
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: ok i wish to publish software on linux, where can i get more info on how to do that ?
<Hobbsee> for file browsing
<Hobbsee> uh, google.
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: :))))))))))
<Lamego> Zombie, , a standard user, uses whatever comes installed by default :)
<Lamego> errm, zorglu_
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: helpfull of you :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: your question is very broad.   you know the saying about "stupid questions get stupid answers"?  the same applies to vague questions.
<Lamego> zorglu_, you are on the right place to get info about subject, and let me inform you, Linux is not windows, there are distributions, which their own set of policies and technical decisions
<Lamego> such decisions affect the flexibility of the software distribution system, unlike on other OSes on which you have a single provider
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: ok more specific then, i made my apps as easy to run as i could, aka no external dependancy, running in chroot. now i want to make it as easy as possible for user to install. how can i do that ?
<zorglu_> Lamego: well i run linux for like 15year now, i got basic knowledge of it :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: get it into the ubuntu/debian repositories for ubuntu/debian, else provide a tarball so people can compile it
<Lamego> zorglu_, so why are you doing a question for which you know the answer :) ?
<Hobbsee> or use klik, or whatever alternative you choose
<zorglu_> Lamego: well it is the first time i want 'external people' to use my software, so no i dont know the answer
<Lamego> zorglu_, you may not like the answer, but you know it :)
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: klik is not installed by default on ubuntu, correct ?
<dholbach> can somebody check bug 133052?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133052 in ubuntu "[needs review]  swfdec0.5.1 [needs upload] " [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133052
<dholbach> it just needs another review
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: correct.
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: any other similar installer installed by default ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, ok, so, again, you must know, if you want your software generally available for Linux, you must identify the major linux distros, and you must ask them to help you
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: i'm sure that's been answered above...
<Lamego> zorglu_, just grab a list of the distros you want to target, send a mail to their packaging process with "Please help me, could you build a package for my software?"
<zorglu_> i surely hope i knew all you think i know :)
<Lamego> I am sure you will get instructions
<zorglu_> Lamego:  kick is not installed by defualt, any other similar installer installed by default ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, with the time we have spent here, on IRC with a discusssion which is mostly concerned to UBuntu, you woudl already have an answer for all the major distros
<zorglu_> Lamego: i got them from ubuntu and i spent 2 weeks just ubuntu :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, the only one click installed that I know to be installed as default, on Ubuntu (not sure about Kubuntu), is gdebi
<Lamego> zorglu_, I Am not even sure that all distros provide a one click install software
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok
<Lamego> configured, by default
<Hobbsee> Lamego: gdebi-kde is by default in gutsy, too
<zorglu_> any news from cnr ?
<Lamego> Zombie, cnr = apt
<Hobbsee> no, you would have seen a press release if they had
<Hobbsee> Lamego: cnr is different - the linspire thing, with commercial stuff, iirc
<Lamego> I am not sure what else you expect from CNR, apart from the wrong information that commercial companies like to use to promote their products
<Lamego> Hobbsee, in tecnology terms, is the same stuff :)
<zorglu_> well single apt for all distro :)
<Lamego> they use .deb packages, and they use apt repositories :)
<zorglu_> aka not X package for X distroy :)
<Hobbsee> Lamego: true that
<Hobbsee> Lamego: oh, is it actual .deb's?
<Lamego> Hobbsee, I dont tried it, but from my readings, the last linspired, used a plain apt repository, they just dont provide synaptic, install, to force the users to use the CRN client appt (which is an apt installer)
<Lamego> but again, this was from readings, i didn't tried myself
<Lamego> Zombie, there is no APT for all distros
<Lamego> cnr, is comercial crap :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: fudge.  you changed motu-uvf stuff, so my filters no longer work!  :P
<zorglu_> i dont care about commercial or not, i just want a way to publish my software to make it easy to install
<zorglu_> seems hard as hell
<Hobbsee> it is, when you dont seem to be listening, yes.
<ScottK> zorglu_: The key part is that you are after making the packaging part easier.  The install part is already easy.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sorry.
* Hobbsee goes and tweaks
<zorglu_> ScottK: well spending 2-3months doing all the packages doesnt seems easy to me :)
<zorglu_> i spent 2week to only do 1 for edgy
<Zombie> Lamego: apt is availiuble for all distroes that use DEBS or RPMs.
<Zombie> Lamego: apt is availible for all distroes that use DEBS or RPMs.
<Lamego> zorglu_, sure, but CNR promises to provide packages for several distros, based on money that they expect to get, from comerical .debs, for which people will pay
<Zombie> Thats about 70%
<ScottK> zorglu_: I'm not saying that packaging is easy.  I'm saying that the packaging is what you want to be easier, not the installing.
<zorglu_> Lamego: well 3month of works isnt cheap either
<Lamego> Zombie, if you do the same with ubuntu MOTU, like, Canonical will promote comercial software, to pay MOTU work, and I am sure they would also be able to provide your software for 2 or 3 distros :)
<zorglu_> ScottK: again no black and white. i want my user to be install the software easily, without me spending 3month at each new versions
<zul> anyways this kind of offtopic now
<ScottK> zorglu_: That's exactly what I said.  You want the packaging to be easier.  This isn't about the user, it's about you.
<zorglu_> ScottK: BOTH!!!
<Lamego> Zombie, sure it is, but if your software requires a system dependent function, or a library which is not available it will not work
<zorglu_> [17:39]  <zorglu_> ScottK: again no black and white. i want my user to be install the software easily, without me spending 3month at each new versions
<Lamego> Zombie, you can't install a Feisty .deb on another distro, which has a major libc6 difference
<ScottK> But the user already can install software easily.
<Zombie> Lamego: You are confusing me for that guy zorglu_
<zul> *whistles* off-topic
<Lamego> Zombie, now it was for you
<Lamego> :)
<Lamego> about the "apt is available for all distros" :)
<Lamego> that doesn't mean, you can provide a single process for all distros, just because you use apt, or can use apt, on all of them :)
<zorglu_> ok lets me more productive
<Zombie> I know that. I didn';t say apt would download from the same repository
<Zombie> I said apt is availible
<zorglu_> what is the average length in revue queue ?
<ScottK> Back before I used Ubuntu/Kubuntu and was using opensuse, apt was the preferred method for installing software when SUSE released broken update tools with opensuse 10.1
<zorglu_> you guys do statistict about that ?
<Lamego> Zombie, yes, but that will get into the same issue, someone will need to reviewt it, for each distro ;)
<Zombie> There is only one major feature Apt Lacks.
<ScottK> zorglu_: It's mostly a function of package quality.
<zorglu_> ScottK: ok what is the average
<zorglu_> ScottK: in time
<Zombie> Parallel Installation ability.
<ScottK> My point is the average is irrelevant.
<Lamego> zorglu_, in my oppinion, REVU is bad, but I was already informed, it was the best that could be done with the available resources
<Lamego> zorglu_, can you improve it ? I mean, REVU and all the Ubuntu release processes ? Do you have time to do it :) ?
<zorglu_> ScottK: well it is :) you see have to find out how i can publish those software so how much i wil l have to spend on it
<ScottK> The primary problem with REVU is lack of qualified reviewers.
<Lamego> that was the answer I got :P
<zorglu_> Lamego: do you got statistic about how long is the revue queue ?
<Lamego> and no, I do not have the time, and I am sure, you also don't have the time :P
<zorglu_> well i write software :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, I don't need that, I have tried to use it, and noticed that you need to come here and ask "Please check my package"
<zorglu_> me coder, no packager :)
<ScottK> zorglu_: Just to give you another perspective, if you look at Debian Mentors, lots of packages rot there for months.  I've never had a package need more than 2 days to get uploaded.
<Lamego> which makes it bad enough on my personal oppinion :)
<zorglu_> Lamego: well ok how long do i have to come everyday to ask that ?
* ScottK is not a DD, but makes decent packages.
<Lamego> I see Debian Preposed Packages, with months :D
<ScottK> zorglu_: If the package is right, probably just once.
<Zombie> zorglu_: I understand that, you have to understand how the Linux ecosystem works as far as making software. I'm a Mandriva packager.
<zorglu_> hehe :)
<Lamego> zorglu_, I don't know, I dropped the official packaging efforts :)
<zorglu_> ok i cant get numbers :)
<ScottK> Zombie: You are?  Then maybe I need to talk to you...
<Zombie> Yes why?
<zorglu_> ScottK: well the point is 'right' is very unclear :)
<Lamego> because I personally don't have for that, but, there is people which have, because, it is alive and working :)
<Lamego> time
<Zombie> I'm an 'Apprentice" Mandriva packager
<zorglu_> Zombie: and how long is mandriva revu queue ?
<Zombie> It varies, depending on circumstances.
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you are going for numbers, you then would need quality numbers
<Lamego> if you want to compare, queues, you will also need to compare quality :)
<zul> still kind of offtopic guys..
<zul> enough
<Zombie> Generally, a *correctly* Packaged Source RPM is submitted into the Cooker
<Lamego> zul, we are talkking about REVU, that is offtopic ?
<zorglu_> Lamego: well i just want to plan this. how much will it cost me to publish this software. if i plan 3months, i wont do it. i dotn have the money
<Zombie> If ts stable enough, it can be 'backported' into stable releases.
<zorglu_> Lamego: it is as simple as that
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: cost?
<zul> Mandrake and RPMS is definently off topic
<Lamego> zorglu_, you dont need to do it, you just need to file a bug, with need packaging, and someone will do it for you
<zorglu_> Lamego: if it is 2weeks. i can spare this money
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: yep, you know work/rent/food/time cost
<Lamego> zorglu_, MOTUs and hopefules, and other people like me, also loose money, providing packages for the open source community :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: if you're looking to make profit, you're probably trying the wrong wya
<zorglu_> well my software cost me 2 year full time :)
<Lamego> do you know how much money did I loose with my converstation with you here :) ?
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: and you're also wasting time here, when youv'e been given answers.
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well you should read what i write
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: seriously
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: i do.
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: unfortuantely
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: moauaou
<zorglu_> so impossible to get numbers ?
<zorglu_> like i should try and hope it doesnt last 5month ?
<Lamego> zorglu_, I already asked if you wanted to make your package avaiable in 1h, you told me, no :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: generalizations tend to be widely inaccurate.
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: it depends on the package quality, how many people are reviewing, how long the queue is, and what stage of development we're in.  is that a good enough answer?
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well you take when the package go in revue queue, and when it goes out. you do that for all package, and you divide, you got an average :)
<Lamego> if you want it, available on the ubuntu repositories, you must understand, that those packages are managed and depend on hundreds of volunteer (lost money) people
<Hobbsee> obviously, but see the [01:50]  <Hobbsee> zorglu_: generalizations tend to be widely inaccurate.
<zorglu_> ok lets be productive, i guess one of you guys can do that much more efficient than me
<Lamego> which means, you can't loose money, just because other people which are loosing money, are not fast enough for your :)
<Lamego> you
<zorglu_> is there a company available i could pay to do that ?
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: well this is basic math, and this is not inaccurate
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: okay, so 3 months on average
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: because of the packages that sit and the original reporter doesnt update them.
<Lamego> zorglu_, you want to pay for what exactly ? A package to be included on the ubuntu official repositories ?
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: how's that for a wet finger in the air guess?
<zorglu_> Lamego: i want the user to install it
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: like an unhelpfull personn
<Lamego> zorglu_, what is your target audience ?
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: well, you did press for an answer....even though you were told that no helpful answer existed.
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: what did you honestly expect?
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: 2 possibilities 1. we dont do statistic on how efficient the revue is or 2. the stat have been done and the result is X
<zorglu_> ok im not productive
* ScottK guesses zul wasn't around for any of my LP is proprietary "discussions
<zorglu_> i guess i should contact canonical and pay :)
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: the answer is the first
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you want to provide a software, available at one click install, for all linux users, there is no such possibility, because, not all distros provide single click installer tecnhology by default
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: go ahead, that's one way to get what you want done.  trying to shove volunteers into doing what you want, and claiming that you're losing money at teh same time, is hardly effective...
<white> !info id3lib3.8.3 gutsy
<ubotu> Package id3lib3.8.3 does not exist in gutsy
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: ???
<white> i will learn it at one stage ...
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: i do like the 'claiming' :)
<white> !info libid3-3.8.3-dev gutsy
<ubotu> libid3-3.8.3-dev: ID3 Tag Library: Development Libraries and Header Files.. In component main, is optional. Version 3.8.3-6build1 (gutsy), package size 254 kB, installed size 832 kB
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: like im lying now :)
<Lamego> if you want to it available, for distros X,Y,Z, do you want me to do that research for you ? And in exchange you will fund an open source project ? :D
<white> someone wants to update id3lib3.8.3 to the -7 revisiion
<zorglu_> ok sorry for the 'harshness' of the discussion
* Hobbsee shrugs, and ignores this channel until it becomes productive again
<zorglu_> Lamego: well this code is 2year full time of my life :) given for free to the community, it is already a funding :)
<white> Hobbsee: you are leaving me? :/
<white> !info nufw gutsy
<ubotu> nufw: a per-user firewalling daemon that interferes with libipq. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.1-1 (gutsy), package size 35 kB, installed size 160 kB
<Lamego> zorglu_, sure, but not enough to fund all open source projects, and other peoples 2 or 10 years of non paid work :)
<Hobbsee> white: poor you
<zorglu_> Lamego: well not full time :)
<white> someone wants to investigate this nufw version as well and maybe upgrade to the newest debian version
<white> Hobbsee: :)
<StevenK> white: We are in UVF.
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok thanks, you are the only one who remained calm, and i value that :)
<white> StevenK: i am just forwarding security related stuff
<Lamego> zorglu_, if you work full time, it means you have some income, or someone pays your bills, and I am very happy that you are a full time open source developer, which is not that common as some open source think :)
<white> !info asterisk gutsy
<StevenK> Ahh
<ubotu> asterisk: Open Source Private Branch Exchange (PBX). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.4.10~dfsg-1 (gutsy), package size 2033 kB, installed size 5264 kB
<StevenK> white: In which case, please file a UVFe for nufw
* Hobbsee could just file the sync request, but then would need a UVFe for it.
<zorglu_> Lamego: well note that i DO try to publish it :) just that it is very hard
<white> StevenK: i am a communication device, not a ubuntu develooper
<ScottK> Heh
* Hobbsee hits enter, and lets ScottK and StevenK ack it
<white> the 1:1.4.11~dfsg-1 version of asterisk fixes a few security problems
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Sync asterisk, too
<zorglu_> Lamego: ok have to go now. and thanks for sticking to the code of conduct
<white> !info po4a gutsy
<ubotu> po4a: tools for helping translation of documentation. In component main, is optional. Version 0.31-1 (gutsy), package size 647 kB, installed size 1732 kB
<Hobbsee> StevenK: done
<white> !info zziplib gutsy
<ubotu> Package zziplib does not exist in gutsy
<ScottK> Did you subscribe motu-uvf?
<white> !info libzzip-dev gutsy
<ubotu> libzzip-dev: library providing read access on ZIP-archives - development. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.12.83-8 (gutsy), package size 92 kB, installed size 580 kB
<white> zziplib should be synced as well
<white> i think that's it so far :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, i used requestsync
<ScottK> OK.
<coNP> Is requestsync able to file an UVF as well (if needed)?
<Hobbsee> coNP: not in current state
<geser> white: id3lib3.8.3 sync to -7 2 hours ago
<norsetto> ScottK: hey, were you waiting just behind the door!?
<ScottK> Just reading #ubuntu-bugs
<coNP> norsetto: are you then one who filed mass-sync/merge bugs last recently? :)
<norsetto> coNP: yeah, got bored with nothing else to do
<norsetto> coNP: and 6 bugs is not really a mass-filing, is it!?
<coNP> Just joking.
<ScottK> Careful.  Now that you're a MOTU and stuff you'll scare people.
* coNP does not want to.
<norsetto> as if ScottK is not enough to scare me.....
<bmm> Any MOTU: I'm looking for the first advocate after the first update of boswars; http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=53
* norsetto points to coNP (revenge, sweet revenge)
<coNP> okay
<coNP> I'll review boswars, bmm, norsetto
<coNP> Something to make *ScottK* scared :D
<norsetto> nothing can scare ScottK; he is the primordial scare
<ScottK> Ironic you say that since you've never interacted with me when I'm not restrained by the Ubuntu CoC.
<norsetto> ScottK: that was meant as a compliment
<coNP> bmm: if you need scons, please include it as a build dependency
<ScottK> Understood.
<ScottK> Now I'm scared. (scons).
<norsetto> ScottK: by the way, feel free to talk to me as you like, I don't mind at all (I quite like it to say the truth)
<coNP> (sorry me (scare me ScottK))
<ScottK> No problem (either of you).
<coNP> ScottK: sorry I does not wanted to say that you violated the CoC or something like that
<ScottK> coNP: Don't worry.  I've only violated the CoC in public once on an Ubuntu channel and there was no confusion at all when I did it.
* norsetto remembers it ....
* coNP remembers that
* norsetto high-five coNP
<ScottK> As I said...  If I've violated the CoC we'll all know.
<coNP> Sorry. I was not even intend to say that.
<norsetto> ScottK: especially the CoC
<ScottK> Heh
<coNP> It was a bad joke started with scaring norsetto ...
<norsetto> coNP: there was no bad joke coNP, we are all here to have fun
<coNP> O.k.
<Lamego> ScottK, are you referring to the last time we had a conversation ? :) you have broken the "Be respectful" ?
* norsetto hugs coNP and ScottK
<ScottK> Lamego: No.
<ScottK> Our last conversation was pretty mild compared to the time I'm thinking of.
<Lamego> ScottK, ah ok, so you are doing your own judgment of your own actions :)
<ScottK> Yes.
* norsetto has to really drag ScottK in the hug but he manages it (barely....)
<Lamego> ScottK, CoC was not indexed to the person bad temper, at least the last time I have read it ;)
<Lamego> last
<ScottK> That's true.
<ScottK> Any time you feel I've violated the CoC, you are free to bring it to the community council and have it debated there.
<coNP> bmm: did you get this issue regarding scons?
<norsetto> btw, we have a little problem, all I can show for the change (beside the code) is this: New upstream release (a new iterative lexer)
<ScottK> norsetto: For what package?
<norsetto> yappy
<Lamego> ScottK, that would not be productive, it would not help me, it would not help you, and it would not help anyone else :)
<ScottK> Lamego: I agree.
<ScottK> norsetto: If that's it, then that's it.
<bmm> coNF: Hi, yes, sorry for the late reply
<Lamego> I feel happy enough with the ability to be on a open channel and tell you that you may be breaking the CoC more often then you believe you do. which is not wrong as long realize it :)
<coNP> bmm: np. I was just saying that, because I am in a reviewing mood, so if you can correct this, I would be glad to continue :)
<bmm> coNP: sorry for the late reply, but I fixed the scons dependency now.
<coNP> bmm: take your time.
<norsetto> Lamego: what is the point of your comments? Looks very much like a personal attack to me
<bmm> coNP: do you want me to upload it with that change, or do would it be possible to add some other fixes?
<Lamego> norsetto, is is not, it means what it means, you were talking opening about CoC, and I did my comment, which means, what means
<coNP> bmm: upload them. I'm looking for other issues in the meantime. But I need this fix to test the package
<norsetto> lamego: well, if I were you I would stop it here
<ScottK> Lamego: You are certainly free to say it.
<bmm> coNP: k, I'll fix it, do a build with a chroot and ping you about the new upload when it's on REVU. Thanks for taking a look!
<norsetto> ScootK: anything else you think is needed in bug 134552?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134552 in yappy "Please merge yappy (1.8-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134552
* ScottK looks
<coNP> bmm: thanks. I am likely to add comments in the meantime. Feel free to ping me again if you have uploaded the package again.
<Lamego> norsetto, I am talking on the open to ScottK, apropos of a conversation on the channel, and based on my presence on the last 2 days, do you feel I am doing a personal attack and should leave ?
<bmm> coNP: will do.
* ScottK doesn't think Lamego should leave.
<ScottK> norsetto: Install log?
<norsetto> ScottK: yeah, its in the one in the second comment
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> norsetto: I unsubbed uus since the UVFe isn't approved.  I acked.  Please subscribe motu-uvf.
<coNP> bmm: what do you think about debian bug 437382
<ubotu> Debian bug 437382 in wnpp "ITP: boswars -- futuristic real-time strategy game" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/437382
<norsetto> ScottK: there is another package i actually forgot to add the install log, its as pathetic as the other one
<ScottK> OK.
<bmm> coNP: This is the same game, and I've read up on their approach. I don't know when it will enter debian and because of that, it won't be able to be there as soon as it can when done as an ubuntu version.
<bmm> coNP: as soon as the package comes into ubuntu (via debian), this package will be changed into a debdiff to get the desktop file in the package.
<coNP> bmm: so you say you want boswars appear in gutsy. And therefore you don't want to wait till it appears in Debian?
<coNP> OTOH I don't see why Debian would not include a desktop file
<ScottK> coNP: They use a different menu system IIRC.
<ScottK> Don't they?
* coNP does not know. We sync some Gnome packages IIRC
<bmm> coNP: I don't want to wait till it gets into Ubuntu through debian. Also note that the ITP was filed after I packaged this game, but because REVU was down, I couldn't post my work. (launchpad bug 128416)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 128416 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  http://www.boswars.org/" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128416
* norsetto remembers a package from debian, including icon and desktop menu
<bmm> coNP: so I decided to just continue for now.
<coNP> bmm: okay. I was just asking what do you think... :)
* norsetto also remember that there was nothing in the package that actually installed them ......
<coNP> I guess including a good game is worth the effort
<Lamego> boswars was downloaded by 3000 Ubuntu users, since 5 Mar, in case that is relevant to decide about the effort
<coNP> Lamego: is there some statistics?
<Lamego> (not lookingo into the amd64 builds)
* coNP is for boswars. Just to clear up things :)
<Lamego> coNP, http://www.getdeb.net/search.php?keywords=boswars, the stats are based on package downloads, only for the main package
<Lamego> includes both version 2.3 and 2.4
<coNP> I see
<Lamego> and I am not looking into the amd64 downloads, which usually small
<Lamego> are
<norsetto> ScootK: thx
<norsetto> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<Zeograd> hi all
<ScottK> Hello.
<Zombie> Hi.
<norsetto> hi there
<Zeograd> Zombie: thx for pointing this chan out
<Zeograd> ScottK: so I've been told you would like to package hugo for ubuntu ?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Rather than start from scratch, it'd be nice to use your Debian source package as a basis.
<ScottK> It appears to produce a sane package and there's no point in duplicating efforts.
<Zeograd> sure
<Zombie> Welcome.
<Zeograd> would you like a binary .deb or rather sources with a suitable debian/ directory ?
<ScottK> Everything we do here is based on source packages.
<Zombie> sources.,
<Zeograd> ok, hang a sec
<ScottK> I've got the tarball and the .deb from your web site.
<Lamego> what is hugo ?
<ScottK> It's a game.
<Zeograd> a pc engine/coregraphx video game emulator
<ScottK> What he said.
<Zombie> Lamego: Its meant to emulate the Turbo Grafx 16, so you can play Dracula X
<Zeograd> ScottK: best way to get it is http://zeograd.com/dl.php?arg=307
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Right.  That doesn't have the debian dir which is the bit I'm looking for.
<Lamego> still blind on it, does it have an homepage :P ?
<Zeograd> oh
<ScottK> In particular your debian/rules.
<Zeograd> Lamego: www.zeograd.com
<Lamego> are the games/cds easy to find ?
<Zombie> Lamego: No, many of these things are collectors items.
<Zeograd> ScottK: anonymous cvs then, :pserver:anoynmous@cvs.pcedev.com:22401/cvs
<Lamego> ok
<Zeograd> ScottK: :pserver:anonymous@cvs.pcedev.com:22401/cvs (typo in username)
<ScottK> Zeograd: Trying
<ScottK> OK
* coNP has a new cloak :)
<Zeograd> ScottK: and module is named "hugo"
<norsetto> gotta go, see u tomorrow
<coNP> bye norsetto
<ScottK> OK.
<Zombie> Zeograd: Are there patches that will fix Death tallking to you, and Dracula talking to you in the beginning of the game?
<Zeograd> Zombie: hmm no. Those sounds are made using ADPCM which is one of the few sound generation mode of pc engine. In the current version, it is slightly broken, enough to be not hearable :/
<Zombie> In the build I have, you can't hear it at all.
<Zeograd> Zombie: actually, it's really really low, but you can't hear it, indeed. Older builds (DOS versions) had it working better
<bmm> coNP: How do you close a bug from the changelog? Should I add "Closes LP: number" ?
<coNP> bmm: (LP: #number) IIRC
<pygi> nod
<bmm> coNP: thanks
<coNP> bmm: you are welcome
<pygi> coNP, you want to do an ACK? :D
<coNP> pygi: what ACK?
<pygi> coNP, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/133052
<pygi> :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133052 in ubuntu "[needs review]  swfdec0.5.1 [needs upload] " [Undecided,Fix committed] 
<ScottK> Zeograd: It's checking out now.
<ScottK> Thanks.
* ScottK remembers why he likes svn better than cvs....
<superm1> ScottK, mythtv and mythplugins are both going to be in need of UVFe's, is it alright if i just put them in the same bug?
<ScottK> No they aren't.
<ScottK> You got a blanket UVFe at today's MOTU meeting.
<coNP> pygi: may I ack them?
<coNP> s/them/it/
<ScottK> pygi: SInce it's a new package, it'd be easier if you uploaded it to REVU.
<superm1> oh really.  I was asleep still during the meeting, very early here.  I'll check the minutes
<pygi> ScottK, but a) I don't have gpg b) keys would have to resync c)etc :P
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> coNP: It's a new package so it'll need you and one other MOTU.  Not just you.
<pygi> ScottK, dholbach already ACK'ed :)
<coNP> ScottK: I think dholbach is one
<ScottK> OK.
<coNP> In fact I am sure he is one :)
<ScottK> Then you would just upload it.
<coNP> But I should check it first, right?
<pygi> yes :p
<ScottK> Aboslutely.
<ScottK> Absolutely .
* coNP checks it if no one want that. 
<coNP> wants*
<pygi> coNP, the package is fine anyway :D
* pygi gotta make swfdec-mozilla then
* coNP asks his pbuilder first. 
<joejaxx> man this is weird
<joejaxx> tomcat will not run unless i try and open catalina.out
<superm1> ScottK, i just checked over the meeting notes.  I don't think mythtv and mythplugins will necessarily be exempt, since they are usable/functional in ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu as well.  Would you agree?  (I don't want to get in trouble for my first upload once i get MOTU :))
<ScottK> Ah
<superm1> all the other mythbuntu-* stuff would of course be exempt by the description there
<ScottK> Then no.
<superm1> Okay thats what i had thought.  I'll follow standard uvf processes then for them
<ScottK> Please do it in two bugs then.
<coNP> Subhuman: Yeah. It is very painful to be a MOTU. All this responsibility stuff, you know...
<coNP> superm1: again ^^^
<coNP> Subhuman: I am sorry.
<superm1> coNP, lol
<ScottK> coNP: Shhh.   Don't tell him.  Let him be suprised.
<coNP> pygi: do you have a reason why to keep Standards-Version 3.5.6?
<pygi> coNP, not really, but no harm done I guess
* coNP had to find something to mention... :)
* pygi kicks coNP :p
<coNP> pygi: More respect towards a MOTU, please :D
* pygi does it again
<coNP> pygi: your package looks sane.
<pygi> coNP, did you doubt? :)
<coNP> In fact I did not
<pygi> hehe :)
<pygi> coNP, I'll feel free to bug about swfdec-mozilla today or tomorrow =)
<coNP> wait
<coNP> you say in the changelog you bump soname
<pygi> hm, yes?
<coNP> why do you have libswfdec-0.5.so.0.0.0 in your package?
<coNP> you say you want to have 1.0.0
<pygi> coNP, ehm, yes? Doesn't patch get applied?
<pygi> coNP, the patch in debian/patches should solve that? o.O
* coNP looks
<Lamego> are the any priorities related to libraries upgrades ?
<Lamego> anyone ?
<coNP> pygi: (1) I don't see the point to have it 1.0.0
<coNP> (2) you patch configure.ac and not configure
<pygi> coNP, 1) well, it should be 1.0.0 according to upstream :P 2) well, that's the way it should be? :P
<coNP> pygi: then why does upstream tarball have 0.0.0?
<bmm> coNP: Just so you know, I've uploaded a new version of boswars BUT it might not show up for a long time (had problems before). I'll ping you when it's there, but feel free to put your mind to something else in the meantime ;-)
<pygi> coNP, because upstream made a mistake?
<coNP> pygi: no. You have to run autoconf afterwards.
<coNP> bmm: as I said it looked otherwise okay for me. I'll check it if it arrives to REVU. Feel free to ping me again
<pygi> coNP, ah, you're right!
<coNP> since it is 0.5 I don't think you would need increase soname manually
<pygi> coNP, ah, ok, just dont do anything then. I'll work on 0.5.2 probably anyway (or we'll do debian sync, and then modify packages to our likings)
<pygi> coNP, well, I changed (tried :P) to 1.0.0 after talk with upstream ;)
<coNP> Maybe it is needed for 0.5.2. But not for 0.5.1
<coNP> Especially if it is a new package
<pygi> coNP, well, since even 0.5.2 is new package (!) probably no point to upload 0.5.1 ;)
<pygi> coNP, anyway, thanks =)
<coNP> pygi: no. If we upload 0.5.1 then we can upgrade to 0.5.2
<coNP> But I see your point.
<pygi> coNP, 0.5.2 breaks api/abi from 0.5.1 :)
<pygi> (don't ask :P)
<coNP> Yeah. Therefore you need to bump soname
<pygi> ok, I'll see about 0.5.2 (or debian sync and modifying ... depends when they'll get 0.5.2)
* coNP would say you should prepare a sane 0.5.2 package. It should not be very hard :)
<pygi> coNP, trust me, 0.5.2 will be a mess =)
* pygi isn't sure somebody would want to hear the story xD
<coNP> pygi: why? A new package cannot break neither ABI nor API...
<pygi> coNP, you want to hear, really? :)
<coNP> I am not sure
<coNP> :)
<pygi> because I gotta merge two upstream tarballs into one (swfdec, swfdec-mozilla) and write a package for that :P
<coNP> pygi: why? :)
<pygi> coNP, because of main inclusion, because upstream doesnt yet properly track abi, and that way it cannot go into main :p
<pygi> coNP, so we do some hacks to make it possible to go in :p
<pygi> but I'm still thinking about it :p
<coNP> But anyway. Do you want to fix swfdec 0.5.1 so that it can be uploaded?
<pygi> coNP, no :)
<pygi> coNP, I'll work on swfdec 0.5.2 ^_^
<pygi> coNP, more sane :p
<pygi> coNP, you agree? :)
<coNP> pygi: feel free to bug me  :)
<pygi> coNP, will do, thanks =)
<pygi> coNP, should I mark the bug invalid?
<coNP> pygi: as you wish
<coNP> pygi: if you don't want your package to be uploaded, you probably should mark it invalid
<pygi> coNP, nod =)
<pygi> coNP, done
<coNP> thanks :)
<DktrKranz> could you please give me a suggestion on bug 130059 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130059 in plr "R_HOME environmental variable not set" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130059
<DktrKranz> pitti suggested me to avoid patch systems, but source files are inserted into a tarball and uncompressed at build time
<DktrKranz> unless I forget something, I need a patch system, even a trivial one
<bmm> sistpoty: boswars seems stuck in the REVU queue again, could you take a look at it when you are possible.
<coNP> bmm: you cannot upload it? Or you have uploaded it but does not appear?
<bmm> coNP: I've got to go, so can't fix the "stuck in queue" of boswars now, I'll get back on this all later. Thanks for your time! (uploaded (without problem) not showing.
<coNP> bmm: okay.
<ScottK> superm1: Congratulations.
<superm1> thanks ScottK :)
<ScottK> superm1: Just a few days until New Package freeze.  Get reviewing ...
<superm1> you found out before i did
* ScottK reads mail regularly.
<superm1> ScottK, that's my goal for sunday, reviewing as much as i can :)
* coNP hugs superm1 
<superm1> who needs to add me as a reviewer to revu now?
* superm1 hugs coNP but with a sharp object behind his back because coNP beat him...
<coNP> ScottK: can you also deal with the REVU queue or should we wait for sistpoty?
<ScottK> I can't.
<ScottK> siretart can
<ScottK> Hobbsee can ( LongPointyStick ).
<zul> she aint here i think
<coNP> ScottK: Okay, thanks.
* coNP wonders if superm1 has uploaded his first package :)
<superm1> yup
<superm1> did it less than a minute after ScottK told me I had MOTU
<ScottK> She's not.  That'w why I included LongPointyStick.  That's here logger.  She'll get it later if no one else does.
<ScottK> superm1: Tell me in the bug that it works for you and include the install log and I'll ack it.
<superm1> ScottK, i'm getting the mythplugins build finished so i can install them all at once, and then ill add the install log
<ScottK> OK.  PIng me when it's done.
<superm1> k
<bmm> coNP: ping for boswars. My previous thought about it being stuck in queue was totally wrong, I just dput to ubuntu :-) It now appeared in mear seconds :-D
<bmm> coNP: got to go though, so talk to you (and the rest) later. Bye!
<coNP> bmm: reviewing
<coNP> too late...
<superm1> ScottK, see bug 134580 and bug 134581
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134580 in mythtv "MythTV UVFe For 0.20.2 release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134580
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134581 in mythplugins "Mythplugins UVFe for 0.20.2 tagged release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134581
<ScottK> OK.  Looking
<ScottK> superm1: Ack'ed by me.
<superm1> ScottK, k thanks.  i'll get uploaded then
* coNP guesses you need two of ACKs
<ScottK> superm1: I didn't set it to confirmed.
<ScottK> Maybe zul will look at them.
<superm1> "Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading."
<superm1> oh confirmed
<superm1> not acked
<coNP> BTW you should edit this description.
<superm1> which one?
<coNP> "Once one of the [WWW]  team members marks the bug as Confirmed you can proceed with uploading."
<coNP> Or let people read wiki pages very carefully
<superm1> its not apparent on that page that two motu-uvf need to ack it from glancing over the page
<coNP> Because that belongs to some MOTU UVF process
<ScottK> Agreed.
<coNP> That is separate from the UVFe process
<coNP> At least I think so
<Adri2000> superm1: out of curiosity, why is mythbuntu-default-settings not a native package?
<superm1> Adri2000, in case it was to be adapted by any other distro
<superm1> or derived from in some form by another distro
<superm1> the gentoo mythtv packager is already looking at adapting a few of the mythbuntu-* packages actually
<zul> ScottK: at work right now but I will when I get home
<superm1> thanks zul
<Adri2000> superm1: ok
<superm1> ScottK, because of the breadth of this problem with schedules direct, i'm also going to do an SRU for this in at least feisty.   It doesn't seem to be addressed in wiki pages regarding if I can use the updated packaging in an SRU, do you know?  My gut feeling says no.
<ScottK> For an SRU you want the absolute minimum change possible.  Meaning you can't update the version, you need to pull the patch for just that change out (and not the updated packaging either).
<superm1> that's what i had thought
<superm1> keescook and i were discussing this
<superm1> the problem is that patch is dependent on a very large number of other patches
<superm1> so we were going to look into a microversion exception
<superm1> such as what firefox and a few other apps have
<keescook> ScottK: without the fixes, mythtv in the US is totally useless too.  :(
<superm1> keescook, do you have that wiki page about microversion exceptions handy?  I was looking for it, but can't seem to find it again
<ScottK> Right.
<superm1> well and don't forget canada, they lose the data too :)
<ScottK> Well absolute minimum varies...
<superm1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<keescook> superm1: that's the one; mythtv doesn't have tests, which is the only hiccup.
<superm1> keescook, well i wonder if they would be willing to make an exception to allow users to ack this
<superm1> if not enough MOTUs test it
<superm1> because i know there are plenty of people that will be glad to comment on the bug after trying ti
<superm1> i'm writing a mail to the TB right now.  I'll CC you on it.
<keescook> is there an SRU bug started for it?
<superm1> I'll do the mail, you make the bug?
<keescook> superm1: isn't it all in the bug?
<superm1> well we need an exception since it is such a large change do we not?
<superm1> i was writing to inquire for the exception
<keescook> okay, cool.  opening new bug...
<keescook> superm1: actually, we need a UVFe to get it into gutsy first, then we can do the SRU...
<superm1> keescook, i filed the UVFe bugs, just need one more ack
<keescook> which I see you already have
<superm1> and i've got the packaging ready for them
<keescook> superm1: okay, ack'd it, but I think it needs a 2nd ack from the moto-uvf team, right?
<superm1> keescook, are you motu-uvf?
<keescook> I'm not, perhaps I can convince soren to look at it?
<superm1> perhaps :)
<superm1> although soren has been idle the last 4 hours, perhaps not present
<^^MAg^^> where I can find gutsy roadmap with dates?
<coNP> ^^MAg^^: /topic #ubuntu+1
<coNP> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<^^MAg^^> thx
<keescook> zul: can you ACK bugs 134580 and 134581 for UVFe?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134580 in mythtv "MythTV UVFe For 0.20.2 release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134580
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134581 in mythplugins "Mythplugins UVFe for 0.20.2 tagged release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134581
<ScottK> keescook: zul said he was at work and would look at it after he got home.
<keescook> ScottK: ah! okay, sorry, I missed that.  :)
<erable> Hi
<coNP> reviewing is fun
<coNP> reviewing can be hard
<geser> reviewing never ends
<erable> My REVU account is dead. it's possible to re-sync my REVU uploaders keyring ?
<coNP> erable: what is your problem? You cannot upload or you cannot login?
<erable> coNP: Login it's impossible.
<coNP> erable: In this case I would recommend you to upload Some Random Goodness (TM) to put your REVU account in motion again.
<coNP> erable: i.e., dput, wait till it appears, and then try to recover your password again.
<erable> coNP: ok
<erable> I want to upload qdevelop package but there is this message "Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de Doing nothing for qdevelop_0.23-1_source.changes"
<ScottK> Zeograd: Are you still around?
<Zeograd> yes
<geser> erable: remove the .upload file and try dput again
<erable> geser: this file doesn't exist
<coNP> erable: dput -f <it>
<erable> coNP: upload is now ok
<coNP> erable: cool. You'll get your login back. Did you have reviewer rights?
<erable> coNP: I had right but now (after crash server) It's impossible to login
<coNP> erable: oh. I guess you need LongPointyStick or siretart or sistpoty to regain your rights
<erable> thank
<geser> members of ubuntu-dev should be able to recover the password as this team got imported into the new REVU
<erable> geser: ok. thank you
<soren> keescook: hm?
<keescook> soren: just trying to get the green-light on the mythtv UVFe
<keescook> namely 134580 and 134581
<soren> Bug 134580
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134580 in mythtv "MythTV UVFe For 0.20.2 release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134580
<Lamego> are there any plans to place revu with some version control system that would allow collaboration on the debian/ changes ?
<soren> Er.. The description seems to only mention the changes w.r.t. to scheduling info that is to come from another place, but there are loads of other changes. That's not necessarily a problem, though, I'm just saying.
<superm1> soren, there are two big changes listed for mythtv, its the scheduling and the memory usage
<superm1> soren, the other changes are related to mythplugins
<superm1> at the linked changelog
<soren> superm1: Yes, but they're also going to be part of the upload, no?
<superm1> well in bug 134581 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134581 in mythplugins "Mythplugins UVFe for 0.20.2 tagged release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134581
<Lamego> bug 127637
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127637 in ubuntu "[needs packaging]  rotoscope" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127637
<soren> superm1: Sorry, I'm too darn tired to make any sense of anything right now. I'll look at it tomorrow if noone has done it yet.
<superm1> okay soren thanks
<alex-weej> gaaaargh
<alex-weej> i am rebuilding libbonobo
<alex-weej> i made a change to configure.in and added dbus-glib-1 to one of the PKG_CHECK_MODULES bits
<alex-weej> but when i debuild i just get activation-server-main.c:57:28: error: dbus/dbus-glib.h: No such file or directory
<alex-weej> do i need to run autosomething somehow?
<geser> alex-weej: did you also add libdbus-glib-1-dev to build-depends?
<alex-weej> geser: it doesn't matter, i'm only testing a hack
<alex-weej> geser: apparently i need to run autoconf
<geser> if the package doesn't it you need to do it
<alex-weej> yeah its working now
<alex-weej> this isn't really a downstream patch, i just need to test it on a downstream package
<alex-weej> i'm making bonobo-activation-server exit when the session bus closes
<ianm_> anyone interested in packaging a widely used, blogged about, youtube'd piece of GNOME software for which a KDE equivalent exists in the repos?   to make it easier, it's in ruby and all dependencies are already available in Ubuntu
<coNP> ianm_: sure. What is that?
* coNP loves both ruby and gnome
<ianm_> coNP: me too :D   it's gnome screen ruler, home page:  http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/screenruler/
<coNP> I guess I have seen this / something similar before
<ianm_> this has been around for years (previously written in C)
<coNP> maybe the kde app you've mentioned
<ianm_> yeah there's a kruler
<ianm_> coNP: this version has been out for about 8 months with 0 reported problems
<coNP> cool
<coNP> so you want me to make a debian package out of it?
<ianm_> coNP: yeah I'd love it
<ianm_> coNP: the other one on that site, a chess clock, is also Ruby/GNOME and is simple and works well.  although the screen ruler is way more popular
<coNP> so it is your software :)
<ianm_> yes
<coNP> this ruler is very cool indeed
<coNP> chess clock might be also useful under some circumstances
<ianm_> it is actually quite useful if you have a laptop and don't feel like buying a real chess clock !
<ianm_> it works really well with a laptop sitting next to the board, although you have to sometimes tell people to not slam your keyboard haha
<coNP> :D
<ianm_> coNP: so let me know if you need anything from me.  I assume the software works fine "installed" but I've only ever used it from the development directory
<coNP> Wow. Really-really cool.
<ianm_> coNP: which?
<coNP> ruler
<coNP> BTW should it be called gruler or screenruler?
<ianm_> coNP: I prefer screenruler because it's simpler and avoids the silly g prefix syndrom, what do you think?
* coNP would call it gruler
<coNP> silly g prefix syndrom can be very useful :)
<coNP> but screenruler is nice as well
<ianm_> coNP: well, using screenruler would require some work as the executable is gruler.rb
<coNP> ianm_: gruler as well since we need an executable to put in /usr/bin :)
<DarkSun88> Today is my birthday. Happy birthday to me :D
* coNP wishes happy birthday to DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Thanks a lot Aron. Congratulations for join in MOTUs
<coNP> Thanks, DarkSun88 :)
* DarkSun88 drink offering at all.
<beuno> anyone know how I can work around a package looking for a library which name has changed?
<coNP> beuno: what do you mean?
<beuno> coNP: the library used to be called "libgig", but now it's called "libgig6"
<beuno> so it fails to compile
<coNP> If you depend on libgig-dev, shlibs-magic will take care of it.
<beuno> I do depend on libgig  :(
<coNP> If not you should build depend on libgig6-dev
<coNP> or libgig6
<beuno> I think it's hardcoded in the makefile
<beuno> (the problem is deeper then the packaging it seems)
<coNP> beuno: you migh pastebin your debian/control file?
<beuno> coNP: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34943/
<beuno> argh, it's incomplete, hold on
<beuno> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34944/
<beuno> so I get: You need to have libgig version 3.1.0 installed!
<beuno> (while doing dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot)
<beuno> the configure.in file has this in it: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34945/
<coNP> what is the problem?
<beuno> which seems like the one screaming about it
<coNP> build depend on libgig-dev (>= 3.1.0)
<beuno> nope, still complains
<coNP> what does it complain about?
<beuno> same thing:
<beuno> checking for GIG... Required libgig version not found!
<beuno> You need to have libgig version 3.1.0 installed!
<beuno> make: *** [clean]  Error 255
<beuno> and my control file is: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libgig-dev (>= 3.1.0)
<coNP> do you have libgig6 installed?
<beuno> so I have to just to package it?
<beuno> er, "do I have to"
<geser> beuno: which package is it?
<beuno> geser: linuxsampler
<beuno> http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html#linuxsampler
<beuno> it was packaged in Ubuntu until dapper, which is where I believe the libgig transition went on
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-25
<geser> do you know why it got removed?
<beuno> geser: no, but I assume it didn't compile with the new libgig and just got removed
<LaserJock> I don't think we removed packages for FTBFS in dapper
<geser> beuno: add pkg-config to build-depends as it uses it to find gig
<geser> beuno: the reason why it got removed: bug #84451
<beuno> geser: added, still complains
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84451 in linuxsampler "Linuxsampler is unfree, and this is reported incorrectly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84451
<beuno> geser: right, so it belongs in multiverse
<beuno> or not?  it's GPL + non-commercial
<beuno> (still interested in packaging it though :D)
<beuno> any ideas on how to crush this libgig thing?
<LaserJock> I think it should work in Multiverse
<beuno> :D
<geser> beuno: checking for GIG... yes
<geser> yes, found libgig 3.1.0
<beuno> if it compiles
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why it wasn't moved instead of removed
<beuno> geser: what have you done that I haven't?
<geser> just run configure in my gutsy dev chroot with pkg-config and libgig-dev installed
<beuno> geser: ok, well, I'm packaging wrong then
<beuno> I'm using the following: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<geser> beuno: the configure script runs: pkg-config --exists --print-errors "gig >= 3.1.0"
<beuno> which requires I execute "dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot" before entering the pbuilder env
<geser> beuno: I've only checked if configure finds gig
<beuno> geser: right, but you get passed where I get an error, so I assume I should be packaging differently
<beuno> it's odd because I've packaged for Debian this way (on Feisty) without that problems
<ianm_> coNP: feel free to get in touch about any problems (email in gruler's About dialog).  thanks for being willing to package it!  cya
<beuno> LaserJock: am I still in time to get it into gutsy or is Universe frozen already?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> there's always exceptions
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if this would be considered an UVF or a NPF
<geser> beuno: we're in UVF for existing packages and new package freeze is August 30th
<beuno> ok, it's not really important I guess, I should get this running correctly first
<beuno> any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
<LaserJock> coNP: congrats, btw :)
<geser> beuno: can you check in your building environment if the pkg-config call gives any errors?
<coNP> thanks LaserJock :)
<beuno> geser: checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
<beuno> checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
<geser> beuno: once you get past gig: I got after that No supported MIDI input system found!
<beuno> (I'm in feisty though, Fiesty doesn't have 3.1.1)
<geser> so there are still some other build-depends missing
<beuno> geser: yeap, it's  libasound2-dev
<geser> beuno: have you a gutsy pbuilder?
<beuno> geser: yeap
<beuno> but again, I'm using the guide, which doesn't use the pbuilder enviroment until the dpkg-buildpackage generates the .dsc
<geser> ah
<LaserJock> wait a sec
<geser> are you running configure in clean?
<LaserJock> what specifically are you running?
<beuno> geser: yeap
<beuno> LaserJock: I'm on Feisty, with a Gusty and a Sid pbuilder
<geser> about the linuxsampler license: does the Ubuntu distribution count as a commercial software product?
<LaserJock> beuno: no, I mean what command
<LaserJock> geser: no
<beuno> LaserJock: dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<geser> beuno: can you pastebin your debian/rules?
<gnomefreak> is there a good app to strip the DRM from a .wma
<LaserJock> hmm, there's no reason for it be running ./configure in clean:
<beuno> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34947/
<beuno> LaserJock: maybe the guide for packaging only applies when packaging for the same release you're on?
<beuno> (which in Ubuntu, doesn't make much sense)
<geser> LaserJock: do you know if it's allowed to add additional clauses to the GPL?
<beuno> geser: I believe the GPL + Non-commercial is very frequent
<LaserJock> geser: hmm, that's an interesting question. I would't really call it GPL'd in that case, but I don't have a good reason why it can't be done
<geser> beuno: remove the configure call from clean and call make distclean if a Makefile exists
<LaserJock> beuno: the Ubuntu packaging guide from any release should work pretty much for any other release
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a package run ./configure in clean:
<azeem> LaserJock: one good reason is that additional clauses make that software incompatible with other GPL programs
<LaserJock> azeem: is that required under the GPL?
<LaserJock> shouldn't it just be required to have the same license?
<beuno> ok, I haven't played around with the rules file much yet, I downloaded an old package and am trying to get it to compile  :D
<geser> Debian bug #328121 also says that this additional clause make it undistributable
<ubotu> Debian bug 328121 in linuxsampler "linuxsampler: Inconsistent and non DFSG free license" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/328121
<beuno> geser: that's what got it removed from main, but it can go fine into non-free
<azeem> geser: well, where "this additional clause" is DFSG violating in itsefl
<azeem> itself*
<geser> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=328121#35
<ubotu> Debian bug 328121 in linuxsampler "linuxsampler: Inconsistent and non DFSG free license" [Grave,Open] 
<geser> quote: "No, this is really an additional restriction over the GPL, thus rendering the software undistributable for everyone but the original author."
<geser> Answer to the suggestion to move it to non-free.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure how that necessarily follows, but ok
<geser> did it perhaps changed with GPL3?
<azeem> well, ok.  But I don't think any additional restrictions render things undistributable
<azeem> just those which violate the DFSG
<azeem> but I understand that is not debian-legal's position
<LaserJock> I would think it would work in Multiverse
<LaserJock> but I'm not great with licenses
<LaserJock> it also looks like older versions were just plain GPL
<LaserJock> you could put that version in Universe
<beuno> ok, the libgig stopped complaining when removing the configure from clean
<beuno> but of course, I get "make[1] : *** No rule to make target `distclean'.  Stop.
<beuno> it does go through anyway and create the .dsc I need
<geser> what about http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#NoMilitary ?
<geser> isn't that exactly what linuxsampler tries to do?
<beuno> geser: that discriminates against a specific group of people
<beuno> I think that's considered differently, but i could be wrong
<geser> don't get misleaded by the anchor
<geser> the whole question is "I'd like to license my code under the GPL, but I'd also like to make it clear that it can't be used for military and/or commercial uses. Can I do this?"
<mayeco> no
<mayeco> :S
<beuno> hmmmm, the original file has a /debian directory...  that's a big "no no", right?
<geser> it only makes the work for you harder
<geser> and of source also the reviewing
<nixternal> anyone specifically maintain netbeans?
<mayeco> I think that neatbeans install alone
<geser> mayeco: netbeans doesn't use an installer anymore
<mayeco> geser: sorry for my ignorance :D
<geser> nixternal: you might ask dholbach if he knows more. There was once a discussion about a netbeans SRU between him and some sun folks on the ubuntu-motu ML.
<ScottK> IIRC the SRU proposed was a whole new version.
<geser> ScottK: yes, and a change from the installer to the current state
<ScottK> No small thing which is why I think it didn't happen.
<nixternal> we have the latest version in the repos, it is always broken for me when I install it
<nixternal> you have to move a conf file in etc around and then --configure -a
<beuno> ok, I started the whole /debian dir from scratch and got passed all the dependencies, now I ran into: dh_install: linuxsampler missing files (debian/tmp/usr/bin/*), aborting
<beuno> anything obvious I should get from that that I missed?
<azeem> is there anything in debian/tmp?
<LaserJock> Toadstool: go Jrmie go!
<Toadstool> LaserJock: hehe
<beuno> azeem: pbuilder env already cleaned up  :/
<coNP> :)
<ScottK> Yeah Toadstool~
<ScottK> !
<ScottK> Does anyone have experience migrating a package from debmake to automake?
<kduboi1> is this the place to talk about gutsy packages? (and issues with them)
<nixternal> can't say that I do
<nixternal> kduboi1: issues should be reported on Launchpad (filed as a bug)
<ScottK> If you need assistance, #ubuntu+1 is the place
<nixternal> hiya ScottK
<ScottK> Hiya
<ScottK> You gonna do some reviewing?
<nixternal> doing that now :)
<nixternal> qdevelop right now
<ScottK> Cool.
<LaserJock> how many have we got left?
<nixternal> about 4,000
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> 28 of them
<ScottK> This is cool.  I just opened the CREDITS file for something that I've been planning on packaging and discovered that I'm mentioned.  I hadn't expected that.
<kduboi1> anyone privy to the difference between libwnck18 and libwnck22? i'm having problems with the two as dependancies
<nixternal> versioning question...for a new package, is it recommended to use x.xx-x or xx.xx-xubuntux ?
<ScottK> 0ubuntu1
<ScottK> Assuming it's not a native package.
<nixternal> OK, that is what I thought, just wanted to be 100% sure
<Toadstool> kduboi1: libwnck22 is a more recent version of the libwnck18 library, they are not binary compatible.  Having a different name allows to keep both libraries and to run programs still linked to the older one, while newly built packages will use the new one
<Toadstool> it is better explained in the Debian library packaging guide
<kduboi1> ah, alright, so both can exist peacefully on the system together?
<Toadstool> yep
<kduboi1> nice, thanks
<Toadstool> you're welcome :)
<leonel> installing  python-psycopg2  in gutsy installs  python 2.4 even  when python 2.5 is installed  on  feisty  does not
<leonel> file a bug ?
<leonel> or is it normal ?
* ScottK looks
<leonel> both depends on  python  >= 2.3.5-7
<ScottK> leonel: BTW (while I look) I've been using python-pygreql recently.
<leonel> I used that  but found  psycopg2  that works with threads  in  mod-python  keeping  a connection pool  open
<leonel> really nice .
<leonel> back in  15 mins
<ScottK> leonel: It's a bug.
<imbrandon> ./update
<imbrandon> err
<TheMuso> imbrandon!
<leonel> back
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<leonel> ScottK: can be fixed in  gutsy or  wait for a merge ?
<RAOF> StevenK: I'm around now, if that's any good :)
<RAOF> bryce: Ping, re xgl.  If you find the bzr branch difficult to review, I can re-do it more traditionally.  It doesn't seem like anyone's particularly interested in collab maint :/
<tonyyarusso> Hey folks, who's around for some handholding?
<tonyyarusso> Last time I tried packaging I did it from a .tar.bz2.  Now I'm working with SVN.  Should I be tarring it first, or is there some direct way?
<RAOF> You'll need to have a .orig.tar.gz at some point.
<tonyyarusso> Right, so just tar <someflag...> svndir/ ?
<RAOF> Options include running autogen, then 'make dist' from the svn source
<RAOF> Or "svn export".
* tonyyarusso mans svn export
<tonyyarusso> Wow, could that help possibly be worded in a more obtuse manner
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Basically "strip all the .svn directories"
<tonyyarusso> Ah, that's helpful.  Better than the stupid regex nonsense I had to write up before to do that.
<tonyyarusso> Of course trackerd has to be indexing while I'm trying to do resource-intensive work.  :S
<bryce> RAOF, sorry, I ended up spending the whole day doing bulletproof-x stuff
<ScottK> leonel: File a bug.  If you have a solution, attach a patch.
<RAOF> bryce: That's perfectly fine.  I'm just wondering whether or not I should redo the package in a better way.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: What does "svn: Working copy 'kompozer/trunk/mozilla' locked" mean?
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Um...
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: I don't know.  Maybe you have local changes?
<tonyyarusso> I haven't done anything other than download.  Maybe the dev is uploading currently?
<RAOF> Shouldn't matter, I think.
<tonyyarusso> hrm, 
<tonyyarusso> Oh, partially done thing.  Found it.
<midnightToker> hi
<midnightToker> Does anyone know if there is a way to sync a blackberry pearl with evolution?  or if there is a better channel to be asking for help?
<YokoZar1> Is there a 32 bit openSSL development package for amd64?
<TheMuso> superm1: Congrats.
<leonel> ScottK:  OK  I'll work on that  ...
<leonel> got to go
<tonyyarusso> Where is the exception describing what to do with source that includes the /debian directory?
<tonyyarusso> Bah, never mind.  He kept it out of the source tar.bz2, but it's in the SVN
<superm1> thanks TheMuso :)
<tonyyarusso> I'm getting a whole bunch of "dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file <various paths>" while doing my dpkg-buildpackage.  Should I be concerned?
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: It just means that files existed in the .orig.tar.gz that don't exist when dpkg-buildpackage looks in the directory you're building from.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: It's okay though?  (I think debian/rules removes stuff while it's working)
<tonyyarusso> As in, it's not one of those things that will be cause for upload rejection?
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: Just check it's stuff that isn't dreadfully important.
<tonyyarusso> gaaah
<tonyyarusso> if [ ! -d mozilla ] ; then tar xzf ../kompozer*gz; fi
<tonyyarusso> tar: This does not look like a tar archive
* tonyyarusso is feeling confused
<StevenK> file ../kompozer*gz
<tonyyarusso> kompozer_0.7.10.orig.tar.gz:      gzip compressed data, was ".fr.5400.0.kompozer-0.7.10.tar", from Unix,
<StevenK> Wierd. Looks like a whacky build system.
<pygi> :D
<tonyyarusso> Well, it's Mozilla.
<tonyyarusso> This stuff worked last spring - I wonder what he changed.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: It deletes the _entire_ mozilla/ directory in the process of dpkg-buildpackage
<StevenK> Nice.
* tonyyarusso doesn't understand why, but hey
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: Could it possibly be trying to process kompozer_0.7.10-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
* tonyyarusso finds out
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: That will sort before, so more than likely.
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: Add a few vv to the tar call
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: Or an @echo 'file ../kompozer*gz' to rules :P
<StevenK> I think you've hit the nail on the head, though.
<tonyyarusso> cp: cannot create regular file `mozilla/.mozconfig': No such file or directory is the latest error
<tonyyarusso> Probably since it just deleted itself I'd gander
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: what does this one mean?  "dpkg-architecture: warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)"
<StevenK> That's a pbuilder-ism
<tonyyarusso> kk
<StevenK> "I can't find the current logged in user using utmp, so I'm using the uid the process is running under."
<tonyyarusso> aka, "I'm being fussy, ignore me"?
<StevenK> Yes, and no. It's nice to warn about that. You could make it go away by bind mounting /var/run into the pbuilder chroot.
<tonyyarusso> Bah, what's the flag for "create parent directories if they don't exist"?
<StevenK> -p
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: How is this possible on the machine that I just created the relevant key on?  gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<tonyyarusso> It shows up in gpg --list-public-keys yarusso
<tonyyarusso> Still getting hung up by the cp line :(
<tonyyarusso> if [ ! -d mozilla ] ; then tar xzf ../kompozer*tar*gz; fi
<tonyyarusso> #patch -p0 < debian/patches/amd64.patch
<tonyyarusso> cp -p debian/mozconfig.debian mozilla/.mozconfig
<tonyyarusso> cp: cannot create regular file `mozilla/.mozconfig': No such file or directory
<StevenK> -p is for mkdir
<StevenK> cp -p means preverse permissions
<tonyyarusso> bah
<tonyyarusso> How can the mozilla directory not exist?  It's contained in the tarball that was just extracted on the previous line.
<StevenK> tonyyarusso: Add a v to the tar call, and it will show what it is extracted.
<StevenK> extracting, even
<tonyyarusso> Trying now
<coNP> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<coNP> hey ajmitch
<norsetto> morning
<Hobbsee> good evening, norsetto!
<norsetto> hiya Hobbsee!
<geser> Hi norsetto
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<norsetto> hi geser
<Hobbsee> hi geser
<RAOF> Evening Hobbsee, norsetto, geser :)
<StevenK> Evening RAOF
<RAOF> And StevenK :)
<Hobbsee> hiya RAOF
<norsetto> evening raof :-)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i hsould really send that email...
<StevenK> RAOF: I was going to bug you last night with WoW woes, but I sorted it out.
* RAOF will get around to it, really!
<RAOF> StevenK: Ah, cool.
<RAOF> In other news, my sound works again (bug #131368)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131368 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Dell 1420n audio not supported under Gutsy" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131368
* StevenK is fixing WoW on his sister in laws machine.
<StevenK> Where it was fixed by buying a GeForce 6200. :-P
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> What was in there before?
<StevenK> GeForce 4 MX
<RAOF> Crap, but it should've worked.
<StevenK> *On-board* GeForce 4 MX using system RAM.
<RAOF> (Yay for Geforce 2 cores)
<RAOF> Even more crap, but still should've worked.  jml uses his onboard intel, and that works.  It's not any more powerful than the old, old nvidia cards :/
<StevenK> Yeah, my problem is that you, ajmitch, and myself are all using -new, and the GeForce 4 is too old for -new.
<RAOF> Ah.
<RAOF> It's a pity that new-legacy can't be 9755, it's a better driver
<ajmitch> StevenK: I am?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh, I thought you were.
<ajmitch> afaik I'm using the standard nvidia-glx
<RAOF> It's also a pity that wine absolutely abhors Xgl.
* StevenK watches 55Mb of the 2.2.0 patch download.
* ajmitch does have a geforce 6600, so nothing special
<ajmitch> StevenK: yeah, and I don't know if the patch itself is even out, or if that's just to prepare the way for it :)
<StevenK> The latter.
* ajmitch had some issues with wine dying at the 'downloading' part on login
<StevenK> So did I.
<ajmitch> 'fixed' by switching WoW to directX mode, letting it grab it, then switch back to opengl
<stgraber> I have just done a Wiki to Ical converter for GutsyReleaseSchedule, for those of you who'd like to test, it's at : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/release-ical/ubuntuical.php
<coNP> stgraber: thank you very much. This was I needed long time ago.
<msikma> Hi everybody, there's a translation of 7.10 which is "reviewed" to be correct, but I believe that it's got a grammatical mistake. How would I be able to comment on the translation? I already did suggest a new version.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what's hte problem?
<Hobbsee> superm1_: you want reviewer status?
<Hobbsee> (done)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<simu> I mean delete debian/ from the orig.tar.gz if possible, if not .substvars from the .diff.gz
<simu> I dont understand this
<simu> there is a debian/ in the upstream, I cannot remove it. I contacted the author. he will provide proper source packages without debian/ folder for the comming releases
<simu> so I think I can solve this issue using .substvars and .diff.gz is there a howto on the wiki
<simu> there is not very much about .substvars in the packaging guide
<Lamego> simu, how can't you delete the debian/* from the orig ?
<Lamego> you are the one creating the orig.tar.gz
<Lamego> until upstream removes from its own tarball (probably on next release), you can do it your own for the building
<simu> allright I do it. its because the packaging guide tells to leave the upstream untouched
<Lamego> simu, are you refering to rotoscope ?
<simu> yep
<simu> allright I got it
<broonie> Lamego: Well, generally the idea is that one doesn't repackage the orig.tar.gz unless forced to do so.
<Lamego> simu, well, and also tells debian/* should not be on the upstream tarball :)
<simu> broonie: yeah you got the point
<Lamego> broonie, which is the case :)
<Lamego> simu, I have tried rotoscope, it didn't produced the expected result
<Lamego> droped it
<simu> ??
<Lamego> not sure if it could be amd64 related, i just know, the result of using it on some photos, was just a blank window :)
<Lamego> i mean, on the all of the few photos I have tried
<simu> rofl
<simu> read the fm
<Lamego> simu, nice, you will be telling that to all the users that will be trying it :) ?
<simu> you have to click using your mouse
<simu> thats all
<Lamego> that was described on the help ? (I just did a quick try on it)
<simu> you got a blank screen bcause you did not draw the lines with your mouse
<Lamego> ok, and, does the application contain some help on how to do it ?
<Lamego> it is not "native" behavior, at least, lookingo at the app, i was unable to figure how to use it
<Lamego> because I did not read the help, I assume it may have been my problem, does it provide an help ?
<simu> no ther is no help
<simu> no
<simu> I will tell that to the author
<Lamego> so, in my opinion (I am not a MOTU), you should either add some help to it, or drop it, because, at it's current state, a regular user, will not know how to use it
<Lamego> you don't care on putting something available to some million users, to tell them RTFM, when there is no RTFM available :)
<Lamego> but well, this is just my personal opinion
<simu> there is help on the project website
<simu> http://www.toonyphotos.com/how-to-use/
<simu> what do you propose?
<simu> I dont wanna drop it just because of help is missing.
<elmargol> My packages are at ./dists/feisty/main/binary-i386 where do I have to put my sources?
<simu> the application itself is mature
<elmargol> ./dists/feisty/main/source ?
<broonie> Perhaps the program ought to complain if the user selects "Render" without selecting any of the image first?
<broonie> (It sounds like it doesn't do that.)
<simu> right
<simu> I aggree with that
<simu> but I wonder: we are discussing the project, witch is not my business, instead of the packaging, which is
<simu> there are lots of alpha and beta packages
<broonie> It's something that might be worth feeding back to upstream as something that causes difficulties for people using the distro packages.
<simu> yes I agree and I will do that.
<Lamego> simu, if you care about packaging something, you must care that people that will try it, will understand it, otherwise, you will get a lot of misinformed people like me, which will tell you that that package has no use ;)
<geser> Kmos: the motu-uvf team wants now to get subscribed to UVFe request and not assigned anymore
<Kmos> geser: ah sorry
<simu> Lamego: allright I write an email to the author with open issues. He already offered me help.
<Kmos> geser: thx for fixing it
<geser> Kmos: np, this was decided yesterday on the MOTU meeting
<Kmos> geser :)
<elmargol> I try to build a deb repository using apt-ftparchive and have a problem
<elmargol> Failed to fetch http://adina/~elmargol/gnunet-feisty/dists/feisty/Release  Unable to find expected entry  main/source/Sources in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
<elmargol> I think my release file is ok
<simu> Lamego: ok I contacted the author to create another menuitem in the help menu. btw there is a man page for rotoscope. but I think novice users are loking for help in the menu (and not in the man page) since it is a gtk application (and not a command line tool)
<simu> Lamego: thanx you helped me a lot
<Lamego> simu, I share the same thinking about manpages for graphical apps ;)
<Lamego> np :)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That was it.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Lamego: Did you get your question answered about how one goes about repacking orig.tar.gz.
<Lamego> ScottK, I was the one answering :)
<JDahl> is Michael Bienna in here?
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Nevermind then.
<JDahl> *Bienia
<ScottK> JDahl: He's known as geser.
<JDahl> ok, thanks
<JDahl> geser, thanks for the notification on cvxopt-0.9 in debian unstable... I guess that if libdsdp is stuck in NEW it will be there for awhile?  But we only need to change a single line in the python setup scripts to build CVXOPT without it,  so maybe it can still get into gutsy?
<geser> JDahl: sure, if it's still useful without libdsdp
<JDahl> geser, dsdp is a small part of it - I never included those addons in my own unofficial ubuntu packages
<geser> checking now what needs to be changed in the package
<JDahl> in the upstream source packages you need to change variable BUILD_DSDP = 0 in src/setup.py
<geser> JDahl: Debian has a patch in debian/patches which modifies setup.py to enable dsdp
<geser> I removed that part from the patch
<JDahl> great - then it should build...
<geser> JDahl: btw you can find the 0.9 source package in http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/cvxopt/
<JDahl> ah ok...  I was looking for it via "search" from http://packages.debian.org,  but their database is probably out of sync
<bmm> Any MOTU: I'm looking for my first advocate or comments on boswars at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=70 .Thanks
<geser> JDahl: 0.9 was uploaded yesterday evening (european time) so it didn't propagate yet to all pages
<Lamego> bmm, you could use debian/dirs to create those directories
<Lamego> and the .install to handle the binaries installation
<Lamego> bmm, I am not a motu advocating, I am just doing some suggestions :)
<ScottK> Lamego: We encourage suggestions.  Thanks.
<joejaxx> does anyone know how apt determines the arch of its host? i am guess through one of the DEB_*_ARCH variables
<joejaxx> or maybe dpkg-architecture directly
<ScottK> geser: Would you have time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=71 for me?
<bmm> Lamego: yes, why not, thanks.
<Lamego> joejaxx, don't believe it is based on dpkg-arch, because that is a dpkg-dev utility, which is not required for apt
<Lamego> joejaxx, eventually uname -m ?
<joejaxx> Lamego: i do not know if it is uname -m or not
<Lamego> it is not dpkg-architecture for sure :)
<joejaxx> well someone has to know :)
<Lamego> you could into the apt-get source code :P
<Lamego> look
<Lamego> joejaxx, you are refering to apt, as when you perform an apt-get install package ?
<geser> JDahl: uploading cvxopt 0.9 without libdsdp support now
<JDahl> thanks a lot!  A kodak moment for me *sniff*
<ScottK> joejaxx: In the ubuntu-dev-tools (or something close to that) project on Launchpad there is a pbuilder setup script that IIRC does what you are trying to find out.  I'd get it and look at the source.
<joejaxx> ScottK: ok
<joejaxx> i forgot dpkg-architecture was part of dpkg-dev
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> i just want to know how i can set it manually
<joejaxx> :P
<geser> ScottK: I've currently very little time perhaps later today, but I gave the diff.gz a quick look now: doesn't dh_shlibdeps work for compiled python extensions (I haven't checked)?
<norsetto> ScottK: for my own education, don't you need to add "XB-Python-Version: ${python:Versions}" in your debian/control?
<ScottK> norsetto: That or have debian/pyversions which this package does.
<norsetto> ScottK: ok, so they are mutually exclusive (its not clear in the policy)
<ScottK> geser: Not entirely sure.  In this case I knew what the answer was so I provided it.
<geser> norsetto: when using python-support have debian/pyversions is enough
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  Pick one.
<geser> but I don't know the current situation with python-central
<geser> ScottK: is the current Debian python policy slight out of sync with the usage of python-support?
<POX_> ScottK: add "Provides: ${python:Provides}" (it's arch:any)
<ScottK> Not sure.  What specifically are you referring to?
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> POX_: Thanks.
<ScottK> Forgot about still needing that for any (and it is).
<POX_> ScottK: replace libmilter1 with ${shlibs:Depends}
<ScottK> OK.
<joejaxx> HA!
<joejaxx> i got it
* joejaxx does a danc
<joejaxx> e
<joejaxx> dance*
* Hobbsee should learn python policy stuff.
<joejaxx> hello Hobbsee :)
<pygi> Hobbsee, the new one?
<ScottK> joejaxx: Did that script have it or did your find it somewhere else?
<ScottK> pygi: Not much point in learning the old one.
<joejaxx> ScottK: no i wanted to set apt manually
<pygi> ScottK, :D
<ScottK> Ah.
<joejaxx> ScottK: that is why i needed to find out how apt did it
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> :)
<ScottK> POX_: Do you know...  Is pycompt = 2.5 valid?
<ScottK> pycompat even.
<POX_> no, set it to "2"
<Hobbsee> pygi: not exactly new...
<POX_> only cdbs uses it anyway
<ScottK> That's what I thought.  I was reviewing another package and it had that.  Thanks.
<POX_> if you don't call dh_python, you can remove this file
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's less than 5 years old.  For Debian policy, that is new.
<POX_> eh
<ScottK> ;-)
<POX_> ScottK: python-apps project accepted, waiting for SVN set up and we can start
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> That will definitely make it easier to push stuff back into Debian from here.
<JDahl> i want to build python2.5 with gcc-4.2 even though it's not recommended (I need gcc-4.2 for some numerical libraries).  Do some of you know what I would change in python2.5-2.5.1/debian to use gcc-4.2?
<ScottK> POX_: ${shlibs:Depends} did not pick up the libmilter1 dependency.  Any suggestions?
<POX_> call dh_shlibdeps manually and check its output
<ScottK> OK.
<POX_> hmm, dh_shlibdeps didn't pick it up
<ScottK> Nope
<POX_> are you sure it's needed?
<POX_> check ldd debian/python-milter/usr/lib/python-support/python-milter/python2.4/milter.so
<ScottK> POX_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34994/
<POX_> it's not on the list, but it is needed, something's wrong with this .so file...
<ScottK> I am certain that libmilter1 is needed.
<ScottK> OK.
<POX_> "import milter" doesn't work even if libmilter1 is installed...
<ScottK> OK.  Sounds like I have some more testing to do....
<kompozer> hello there
<kompozer> I would like to know how to use symlinks in a debian/rules file. After the 'make install', I need to move some non-binary files from /usr/lib/* to /usr/share/*. If I use simple 'ln -s' commands, pbuilder fails because the source doesn't exist yet. Any help would be very appreciated.
<POX_> kompozer: dh_link
<kompozer> POX_: I try that right now, thanks!
<POX_> you will probably also need dh_installdirs
* kompozer looking at the man page
<kompozer> POX_: ok, I can write an *.links and an *.dirs file then
<norsetto> StevenK: ping
<StevenK> norsetto: Pong
<norsetto> StevnK: hi! Was looking at merging dvgrab, was wondering what was the origin of your patch?
<norsetto> StevenK:  hi! Was looking at merging dvgrab, was wondering what was the origin of your patch?
<StevenK> I patched dvgrab?
<norsetto> StevnK: yeah, version 1.8-4ubuntu1
<ScottK> Well it certainly wasn't me and that's the usual mistake people make.
<jeromeg> norsetto: i've already prepared an upgrade for dvgrab, it just needs testing
* norsetto perhaps one day will spell steve name correctly
<jeromeg> norsetto: you can test it ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: it includes 3.0 from debian?
<ScottK> norsetto: That wasn't particularly aimed at you.  People seem to get the two of us mixed up reasonably regularly.
<norsetto> ScottK: no, it was aimed at me as I keep spelling it stevnK :-)
<jeromeg> norsetto: oh 3.0 wasn't in debian when i prepared my upgrade...
<jeromeg> norsetto: but the debian package is better anyway, you can sync it
<norsetto> jeromeg: well, I'm checking about this patch, if its not needed anymore it is indeed a sync
<jeromeg> norsetto : ok thx
<norsetto>  StevenK: yeah, version 1.8-4ubuntu1 (sorry, keep typing your name as StevnK)
<StevenK> norsetto: Where did the patch come from? I wrote it.
<jeromeg> norsetto : the upgrade request was made here : bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dvgrab/+bug/131561
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131561 in dvgrab "Please update to latest release (dvgrab-3.0)" [Undecided,New] 
<norsetto> jeromeg: you want to keep working it out with  StevenK? I don't mind
<jeromeg> norsetto: if you don't mind, I will do it, I need some experience in packaging :)
<norsetto> jeromeg: sure, the only point right now is the patch
<jeromeg> norsetto: yep, I'm on it in 5 minutes
<norsetto> jeroemg: but you need stevenk for that; upstream have changed that piece of code
<StevenK> If they still try and get access to members from fd, it isn't going to work.
<norsetto> stevenk: no, now they use a stat on the filename
<jeromeg> StevenK, norsetto : you are speaking about the patch ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: yes
<jeromeg> norsetto : ok
<StevenK> If that's so, the patch can probably be dropped.
<norsetto> StevenK: [old]  fstat( fileno( fd->stream ), &file_status );
<norsetto> SteveK: [new]  stat( filename.c_str(), &file_status );
<jeromeg> so you think we can drop that patch ?
<norsetto> StevenK: where filename.c_str() is defined in the create method
<StevenK> jeromeg: Yup
<jeromeg> StevenK, norsetto : ok I will transform the upgrade request in a sync request
<jeromeg> norsetto: thx for point that fact to me, I was still looking for a tester :)
<norsetto> jeroemg: thx to you,  you can use syncrequest for that
<jeromeg> norsetto: never heard about it, what is that ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: don't forget you need an UVFe
<jeromeg> norsetto: yep I know, but 1.8 has so many bugs, so I think it won't be difficult
<norsetto> jeroemg: ok, better safe than sorry :-)
<ScottK> jeromeg: You might ask StevenK for an opinion on that since he's packaged it before and is on motu-uvf....
<jeromeg> ScottK: thx
<jeromeg> StevenK: does dvgrab suit an uvf ?
<StevenK> jeromeg: What are the changes?
<norsetto> jeromeg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess (the name of the utility is requestsync)
<jeromeg> StevenK: new upstream release (1.8 -> 3.0, so it hasn't been updated for a long time), tons of bug fixes...
<jeromeg> norsetto: thx
<StevenK> File a UVFe first
<jeromeg> StevenK: before the sync request ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: just in case: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<norsetto> jeromeg: and yes, you need to get an UVFe before you can request the sync
<jeromeg> norsetto: ok thx
<norsetto> jeromeg: do you have a PPA?
<jeromeg> norsetto: nope
<jeromeg> norsetto: I only have a pbuilder and a VM to test
<norsetto> jeromeg: ok, you need to show to these guys a build log, if you had a PPA you could have built it for more architectures and shown all the log
<norsetto> jeromeg: I've got one, so if you need help with that let me know
<jeromeg> norsetto: ok thx
<jeromeg> norsetto: how should I name the UVf report ?
<jeromeg> UVF for dvgrab ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: its like a normal sync request but add [UVFe]  in front and subscribe motu-uvf
<jeromeg> norsetto : ah ok :) I can understand now :)
<norsetto> jeromeg: for example: [UVFe]  Please sync dvgrab (3.0-1) from Debian unstable (main)
<jeromeg> norsetto: yep understood
<jeromeg> norsetto : bug 134730, if you can help me for the build logs, I would be grateful
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134730 in dvgrab "[UVFe] Please sync dvgrab 3.0-1 (universe) form debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134730
<jeromeg> norsetto: sorry in fact I got to go, I'll come back later to finish this
<jeromeg> cu
<joejaxx> ScottK: if upstream already have source packages for their application what is the correct way to go about it in revu?
<ScottK> You mean they provide a complete Debian package?
<joejaxx> yes
<superm1_> ScottK, sine i'm MOTU now, do I still need a sep sponsor per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU , or can I just upload to release-proposed once the diff is ready?
<superm1_> s/sine/since/
<ScottK> You can either use their debian dir or repack the tarball, remove it, and make your own.  You're choice.  If their debian dir has a file or dir that you remove entirely then you will have to repack their tarball.
<ScottK> superm1_: You can upload it.
<superm1_> okay thanks
<ScottK> Don't mess up.
<superm1_> hehe
<ScottK> Not kidding.
<ScottK> superm1_: Make sure you upload it to feisty-proposed.
<superm1_> well it will be across feisty and edgy, so it will be feisty-proposed and edgy-proposed
<ScottK> Yes.
<joejaxx> ScottK: you mean the diff.gz?
<norsetto> superm1 = super motu or super mario!?
<joejaxx> i thought it was superman
<mok0> What is the status of debtags in Ubuntu? Is it something that will be used?
<ScottK> joejaxx: Is their debian dir in the tar.gz or provided separately?
<norsetto> mok0: ask ScottK ;-)
<superm1_> norsetto, both :)
<joejaxx> ScottK: it is not in the orig.tar.gz
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> Then review their packaging and use it or not as it deserves.  Make sure you very carefully review the licensing and copyright of the entire package.  Often if it's not already in the repo, there's a very good reason.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> ScottK: are merges allowed up until NPF?
<ScottK> joejaxx: Is it a new Debian revision or a new upstream version?
<joejaxx> it is not in the repository at all
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> ScottK: it is a package that we do not have
<ScottK> Then it would be a new package, not a merge.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> are those still allowed?
<ScottK> Up until the New Package Freeze.
<ScottK> That's why we call it the New Package Freeze ;-)
<joejaxx> ok so do i take it from debian and upload it to revu? :P
<joejaxx> i do not know the process
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> If it's a package from Debian that needs Ubuntu specific changes, then make a bug and attach a debdiff just like you would for any merge.
<ScottK> Mention in the bug that it's a new package for Ubuntu.  Also why we want it at this late date.
<Lamego> joejaxx, is it on Debian already :) ?
<joejaxx> Lamego: yes :)
<Lamego> so you want is a merge or a sync, or however they call it :P
<Lamego> it is funny to have UVF different from NPF
<ScottK> Lamego: They have different risk sets, so it does make sense.
<ScottK> Lamego: With an update to an existing package, we need to worry about regression risk and balance that against features/fixes.
<ScottK> Lamego: With a new package there's no regression worry.
<Lamego> well, I don't see how an NP can represent a different risk from an UV
<ScottK> A new package can't work worse than the one in the previous release.
<Lamego> ScottK, an NP represents lack of features ;)
<ScottK> Right, so the only way to go is up from zero.  No regression risk.
<ScottK> On this theory, I'm pretty comfortable myself with giving a pretty broad approval blanket for UVFe's for packages that weren't in Feisty.
<Lamego> ScottK, ah ok, that concept is based on the idea, that introducing a regression on an UV is worse than introducing a new package
<Lamego> worse in the sense, if the new package QA fails
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> If the new package is completely borked you won't lose any functionality that existed in Feisty.
<Lamego> well, from users perspective, it is not :)
<ScottK> The reason we have a New Package Freeze at all is to prevent that from happening.
<Lamego> ok
<ScottK> Or reduce the risk anyway.  There are no guarantees.
<Lamego> I don't agree with the reasoning but I understand it now
<LongPointyStick> Dear $worldingeneral.  I am terrible at calling people back, or sending people SMS's back.  The time i usually think to do such things is 2am local time, and I dont think you'd appreciate a phonecall at that time, if you're anywhere near australian timezone.  that is all.
<joejaxx> LongPointyStick: that is why irc is the best ;)
<Lamego> are there any specific rules depending on the package type, meaning, does library which has some 20 other packages depending on them, follows the same process as a standalone package ?
<ScottK> Lamego: Same process, but with a lot more care and consideration about what gets done to it.
<LongPointyStick> joejaxx: indeed.
<joejaxx> :)
<LongPointyStick> LongPointyStick: although, i can be bad at replying to that too
<Lamego> ScottK, but performed by the same people ? I mean, the reviewing ?
<ScottK> If they are both in the same component, yes (Main and Universe have different groups with slightly different processes).
<joejaxx> where is the magic wiki page about syncs?
<joejaxx> !syncs
<Lamego> I am refering to universe, main is far more easy to manage, most of it is paid work, and much smaller
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about syncs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ScottK> Lamego: Then yes.
<ScottK> LongPointyStick: You ack'ed the UVFe for empathy, but not tp-salut (bug #134623) and tp-mission-control (bug #134624) up which it depends.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134623 in telepathy-salut "[UVFe]  Please update telepathy-salut to version 0.1.4" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134623
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134624 in telepathy-mission-control "[UVFe]  Please update telepathy-mission-control to version 4.35" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134624
<ScottK> up/upon
<Lamego> are there any specific MOTU subgroups for people specialized on certain type of build systems and development languages ?
<LongPointyStick> ScottK: my bad.  please remind me on $monday
<ScottK> OK.
* LongPointyStick heads to bed.
<joejaxx> Goodnight LongPointyStick :)
<ScottK> Lamego: Yes.  There is, for example, a MOTU Science team, multimedia, and some others.
<geser> afaik there is also one for uncommon languages
<ScottK> I guess those weren't exactly what you were asking.
<Lamego> I meant package building oriented ;)
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> Not really.  We all pretty much work here and you get to know who knows about what.
<ScottK> Additionally, there are people here who are not really Ubuntu people that help out.  man-di is a Java oriented DD and POX_ is a Python oriented DD.  I certainly appreciate their willingness to work with a downstream project.
<nixternal> mmm java
<nixternal> I should start hanging out with man-di then, I am starting to enjoy java more and more
<Lamego> yuck :P
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> Java and Qt are actually fairly decent
<Lamego> there are a LOT of java apps that would be nice to have on universe
<StevenK> w
<StevenK> Oops
<bmm> Is this bad in some way: "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field L Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed in input data in parsed version of changelog " ?
<bmm> (that's a warning I got when running pbuilder on boswars, see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=70 )
<norsetto> bmm: no, its what happens when you use LP: #xxxxx to automagically close a bug report
<bmm> norsetto: OK, thanks!
<huats> HI all, I have small pb here : I am trying to build a package for a bug fix (flightgear) with pbuilder for gutsy. the build fails on "E Couldn't find package plib1.8.4-dev". But when I look on package.ubuntu.com it seems good to me. Any hint ?
<bmm> huats: your pbuilder environment might be in the wrong distribution, what distribution are you running and how did you initialize pbuilder?
<huats> bmm: I am running feisty and a the debootstrap script for gutsy to build it...
<huats> bmm: it on feisty it is also plib1.8.4-dev (I've checked to be sure), so it shouldn't be the pb I think
<huats> norsetto: did you manage to build the package with my dsc ?
<norsetto> huats: yes
<bmm> I'm not sure about this, but doing "DIST=gutsy sudo pbuilder create" and "sudo pbuilder build package_naem.dsc" should do ok.
<huats> ok i'll try again...
<bmm> huats: if you want to use a chroot environment (I've never done that, only used pbuilder) this might help: file:///usr/share/packaging-guide/html/C/appendix-chroot.html
<bmm> Oh.. sorry for that stupid link
<huats> bmm: ok thanks. I'll have a look
<jeromeg> StevenK: COuld you please have a look at my UVFe request ? bug 134730 It's the first time I do one, so I want to know if everything's OK
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134730 in dvgrab "[UVFe] Please sync dvgrab 3.0-1 (universe) form debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134730
<bmm> huats: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html
<Lamego> chroot is much more friendly :P but not as clean as pbuilder
<norsetto> jeromeg: I think its a good idea to also paste the NEWS file (from 1.7 onwards only)
<RainCT> hey
<jeromeg> norsetto: ok I'll do that
<norsetto> hay
<bmm> huats: if you decide to use pbuilder (I suggest it) here is some more info: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-checkit.en.html#s-pbuilder
<norsetto> jeromeg: you should also paste an install log (to show that the package installs cleanly)
<jeromeg> norsetto : ok
<bmm> Any MOTU: I'm online for comments on boswars http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=70 (no advocates yet, been through some revisions already)
<norsetto> bmm: for an example of a control file with build-depends split over several lines, you can look at the flightgear one
<bmm> norsetto: I had the dependencies split over multiple lines, but one of the comments was that it wasn't looking good.
<norsetto> bmm: did you have a space or two to indent?
<bmm> norsetto: I used two, so that might have been the problem.
<bmm> norsetto: I used two spaces to indent and kept all lines under 80 chars, but as I read the comment it needed to be changed to one line to look better. But I may have misread the comment.
<norsetto> bmm: were you asked to add license and copyright in debian/docs?
<bmm> norsetto: Ehm, no asked, but I think I did that. If you find there is to little copyright information, let me know.
<norsetto> bmm: are you the upstream author?
<jeromeg> norsetto: I'm running a french system so install is in french, is it a problem ?
<jeromeg> norsetto: there are no errors during install
<norsetto> jeromeg: I don't think it is, there is nothing you can do anyhow about it
<jeromeg> norsetto: and how can I get good install log, in gdebi and only get the end ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: just copy what you have on the terminal and paste it in the bug report
<jeromeg> norsetto: only the end of the log is ok ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: use dpkg -i not gdebi
<jeromeg> norsetto: ahhhhhh, not a bad idea :)
<jeromeg> norsetto: I have a problem : when I run dpkg -i it fails saying that the dependences are not installed, but with gdebi it installs everything and gets configured
<norsetto> jeromeg: ok, then you have the dependencies already installed!?
<jeromeg> norsetto: no, if I have nothing installed, with dpkg it fails, but with gdebi -> ok, if i have the deps installed, both ok
<norsetto> jeroemg: if you removed everything already just use apt-get and manually install all dependancies, or install the old version first and then overwrite it with the new one
<norsetto> jeromeg: are you using feisty?
<jeromeg> norsetto: nope I tested in gutsy
<jeromeg> norsetto: but I can do it in feisty
<norsetto> jeromeg: no, in gutsy is fine
<jeromeg> norsetto: but this bug is strange
<norsetto> jeromeg: check again, you must have removed something
<norsetto> jeromeg: what is the missing dep?
<jeromeg> norsetto: does dpkg -i install deps automatically ?
<norsetto> jeromeg: no
<jeromeg> norsetto: ok forget my question so, everything is normal :)
<norsetto> jeromeg: I'm going for dinner, but please keep asking any questions you need to ask, I'm sure somebody will help you
<jeromeg> norsetto: I should be good this time, hard to be a noob :)
<jeromeg> norsetto: thx very much for your help
<norsetto> jeromeg: don't tell me; I'm a noob+0.25
<jeromeg> norsetto: still better than a noob :)
<LaserJock> has anybody noticed pidgin using an awful lot of RAM?
<bmm> norsetto: no I'm not the upstream author of boswars, what is wrong with the copyright file?
<jeromeg> ScottK: hello, just to speak about bug #34730
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 34730 in gajim "forgets window position and size" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/34730
<jeromeg> I haven't been able to test the package very accurately as I don't have a dv camera
<Nafallo> meeh
<jeromeg> however there is a mode to read from a video file so I could test a lot of functions, the only thing to test is the dv interface
<Nafallo> jeromeg: what exactly has gajim to do with videocameras?
<jeromeg> Nafallo : wrong copy/paste :)
<jeromeg> bug 134730
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134730 in dvgrab "[UVFe] Please sync dvgrab 3.0-1 (universe) from debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134730
<Nafallo> thought so. don't scare me like that :-)
<jeromeg> a 1 was missing, thx for noticing it
<Nafallo> well, I would hate to not know about bugs in software I maintain ;-)
<jeromeg> Nafallo: sorry
<norsetto> I would hate to know about bugs in software I maintain ......
<jeromeg> :)
<Nafallo> no problem :-)
<jeromeg> if anyone has a dv camera to test he is welcome
<norsetto> jeromeg: I checked my (well, my wife's) and its got no firewire i/f
<jeromeg> norsetto: thx anyway
<norsetto> hey jazzva; how is going!?
<Jazzva> Hey norsetto... Fine, I suppose... Had an exam, the questions were a bit surprising. Other than that, fine. How're you?
<norsetto> jazzva: fine, thx for asking; surprising question, they are always surprising ;-)
<norsetto> jazzva: busy on any new bug?
<Jazzva> norsetto: Yeah, I should have learned by now :). Umm, not really... I planned on retagging some of Mozilla bugs :).
<Jazzva> norsetto: Have anything interesting? :)
<norsetto> jazzva: ok, don't be shine, if you need help just pop up here and ask
<Jazzva> norsetto: Ok, I will...
<Jazzva> Thanks )
<Jazzva> :)
<Jazzva> norsetto: Hmm, now that I think of, there is one bug that I would need help with. Just let me get it's number.
<Jazzva> *its
<Jazzva> bug #133271
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133271 in ubuntu "Simple problem with gnome-terminal" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133271
<Jazzva> Well, it appears both in gnome-terminal and Firefox... I thought it's maybe Compiz-related, as something similar happens in FF, but the user doesn't have Compiz/Beryl/CompizFusion installed.
<norsetto> jazzva: can you reproduce it? I'm still trying to understand what he is saying
<norsetto> jazzva: for the escape key, that is a feature
<Jazzva> norsetto: Well, no... I never seen something like that in terminal. It is a possibility that he is just confused...
<Jazzva> norsetto: Well, I guess that he is just confused then... I'll ask him to explain his problem a bit more.
<norsetto> For example: in some Web. ctrl + f (find). I write average and when pressing the space, puts black the screen and returns immediately to normality. This returns to spend when pressing repeated times space !?!?!
<Jazzva> norsetto: Yeah, I know... it is unclear was he saying. I thought that he meant of screen-blackout, which happens with Compiz/B/CF, but he doesn't have it.
<Jazzva> BTW, I didn't know of double-ESC... only of double TAB.
<Jazzva> triple ESC...
<mrigns> ihr virtuellen pseudonyme!
<azeem> this is an english channel
<tsmithe> guten abend, mrigns
<mrigns> oh lol
<tsmithe> hier sprechen wir englisch
<mrigns> sorry, wrong channel :D
<tsmithe> (was my german alright? i'm very bad at it..)
<mrigns> I think it was I'm not german ;P
<tsmithe> haha ok
<geser> tsmithe: your german is better than you think. It was correct.
<norsetto> keine gegenstande aus dem Fenster werfen!
<tsmithe> thanks geser :)
<norsetto> sorry, just too many years of commuting by train.
<tsmithe> ahhh
<tsmithe> i get it now!
<geser> it looks like there is a secret requirement for ubuntu-dev: knowing some words in german :)
* beuno wonders if he can still get a package into Gutsy and looks ScottK's way
<pygi> beuno, depends?
<pygi> what package is it?
<beuno> pygi: linuxsampler, it should go into multiverse
<beuno> it was removed because it was non-free
<pygi> beuno, ah
#ubuntu-motu 2007-08-26
<pygi> that's NEW then probably
<geser> beuno: have you resolved your gig problem?
<pygi> I think it can for 4 more days
<beuno> geser: yes  :D
<beuno> taht package owes me 2 days of my life
<beuno> what's the process so get it in then?
<geser> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<beuno> great, I'll clean it up a bit and upload
<beuno> thanks  :D
<beuno> oh, and also, what's the process in the changelog and such considering it has already been in ubuntu?
<geser> good question, I'd say you can start as if it was never included
<leonel> ScottK:  python-psycopg2 does not pull python 2.4 in gutsy  ....  tracing what package is  ..
<beuno> great, I'll clean it up and upload to REVU then, thanks geser
<beuno> geser: uploaded to REVU, does it take a while to show up?
<thinkl> Can anyone tell me how to create a dependency on A or B in a .deb control file? I develop an application that requires python bindings for sqlite -- I used to depend on pysqlite2 -- now with sqlite3 built into python2.5 I don't need to. I'd like to depend on python2.5 or pysqlite2.
<beuno> ah, nothing, it got rejected for a good reason (I put unstable in the changelog)
<bmm> Hi everybody. In the coming hour, I'm looking for any comments and advocates for boswars: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=70
<thinkl> Ah -- pysqlite2|python(>2.5) looks to be right.
<beuno> hmmm... I got "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.", but I am in the Ubuntu Universe Contributors team already...  (been their for a while now)
<bmm> beuno: probably dput to ubuntu instaed of dput revu
<RainCT> good night
<bmm> Sleep tight
<beuno> bmm: sounds right, thanks  :D
<bmm> my pleasure
<beuno> yay! it's up there!   now I just wait for someone to review it?
<bmm> beuno: well, you kind of have to ask for it if you want to speed things up. But waiting for comments and keeping an eye on your mailbox (make sure you get the REVU messages) will also work.
<bmm> beuno: If you are online and asking for it, people are faster at working with you though. Mondays are REVU days as far as I know.
<beuno> bmm: aah, right, I believe I have 4 days, so it seems I do need to speed things up
<beuno> oh, great, I'll make sure I'm here monday  :D
<bmm> beuno: I'd have to look it up for sure, but I think the last meeting mail said it would be monday ;-)
<bmm> beuno: Why do you need it in 4 days?
<beuno> bmm: I hang around here all the time anyway, so I guess I'll bug random people I see active  :p
<beuno> 19:32  * beuno wonders if he can still get a package into Gutsy
<beuno> 19:33 < pygi> I think it can for 4 more days
<bmm> beuno: I mostly just say "Any MOTU, I'm looking for advocates for package.. etc". Ah, getting it into Gutsy would be nice indeed.
<minghua> I think pygi is talking about universe new package freeze.
* beuno suspects minghua is a MOTU and has the superpowers to review
<bmm> Oh, yes, probably depends on wether it's new or an update.
<beuno> it's NEW  :D
<bmm> mine two :-)
<bmm> beuno: what is your package called? Mine is boswars.
<beuno> bmm: linuxsampler
<minghua> beuno: Yes I am a MOTU, but sorry I have neither time nor an Ubuntu system to properly review now.
<beuno> it's for multiverse
<beuno> minghua: no problem, thanks anyway, it was worth a shot  :D
<bmm> minghua: do you know how I can do a get-source from revu? Then I can start posting comments on it ;-)
<minghua> bmm: By "get-source" so you mean getting the source package?
<minghua> s/so/do/
<bmm> minghua: yes, something that has the same effect as "apt-get source" but gets,extracts and patches a package from REVU
<minghua> Yes you can.
<bmm> minghua: how? The revu-report script doesn't really seem to do something like that. Could you possibly give me an example command or such?
<minghua> bmm: Take beuno's package, linuxsampler, as an example:
<LaserJock> anybody having problems with system-config-printer? I have to re-enable my printer every time I need to print :(
<minghua> bmm: First get the package: dget http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/linuxsampler-0708260400/linuxsampler_0.4.0-1.dsc
<minghua> bmm: Then extract it: dpkg-source -x linuxsampler_0.4.0-1.dsc
<minghua> bmm: This is roughly what "apt-get source" is doing behind the scene.
<bmm> minghua: great! Works like a charm, thanks!
<minghua> bmm: As for the revu-report script, I don't know it at all so have no idea.
<bmm> bueno: you need an ubuntu version added to the version in the control
<minghua> LaserJock: Isn't that a question for #ubuntu+1? ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: Good afternoon BTW.
<bmm> minghua: only documentation about reviewing I could find, but looked like you needed special privileges, but this works like a charm! Thanks!
<minghua> ...or good evening.
<beuno> bmm: you mean in the changelog?
<bmm> beuno: ah, yeah, sorry the changelog ofcourse :-S
<beuno> bmm: it would be 0.4.0-0ubuntu1, right?
<bmm> beuno: do "dch -e" from your linuxsampler directory and then add -0ubuntu1
<LaserJock> minghua: I did ask in #ubuntu+1 but there about has helpful as usual
<bmm> beuno: Why do you have a Makefile.am in the debian/ directory?
<minghua> LaserJock: Tough luck.  You know where malone is. :-)
<beuno> bmm: I don't, the original tarball does  :D
<bmm> beuno: The debian directory should not be part of the orig.tar.gz and not part of the upstream release, why is it in there?
<minghua> Bad, bad upstream.
<bmm> beuno: ok, so upstream already has a debian/ directory :-S
<beuno> bmm: exactly  :D
<beuno> and the /debian dir upstream doesn't work and sucks  :D
<bmm> I'm not sure what to do with that, somebody with experience who can comment?
<bmm> beuno: I think you might have to convince upstream to leave the debian directory out of their releases (minghua might know what to do)
<minghua> I agree that persuading upstream not to put debian/ dir in the released tarball is the most correct thing to do.  It may be hard to achieve though.
<beuno> minghua: it seems upstream has already been contacted in debian, and he hasn't responded
<beuno> (it used to be in Debian too)
<minghua> (And don't take my words too seriously, I don't know the Ubuntu's guidelines on such issues very well.)
<minghua> beuno: Used to be?  Why isn't it in Debian anymore?
<beuno> minghua: same reason then in Ubuntu, upstream added a non-commercial clause to the GPL
<beuno> so it had to be removed
<beuno> (it should of been moved to non-free, but it didn't)
<minghua> Hmm.  I see.
<beuno> ok, I changed the versioning, I should just upload to REVU again and it will update"
<beuno> ?
<bmm> beuno: I think there is much more to change, but I'm not sure how to do it. However, you can do a "dput -f revu package_source.chagnes"
<bmm> beuno: the "-f" will make sure dput pushes it to the server even though the same version has already been uploaded.
<beuno> bmm: great, thanks, uploaded and will try again monday when more people are here
<LaserJock> beuno: still trying that nasty app?
<minghua> beuno: Have you discussed the license issue of linuxsampler with anybody?
* minghua suspects linuxsampler is un-distributable as is.
<beuno> LaserJock: yeap, but I got it working  :D
<beuno> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=76
<beuno> minghua: I have, and I believe gpl + non commericial is fairly common, and is OK in multiverse
<LaserJock> beuno: have you consulted an archive admin?
<beuno> LaserJock: no, I should get a hol on one of those
<beuno> who can I contact?
<minghua> beuno: No, it's not common at all.  Basically the non-commercial requirement contradicts with GPL, which makes the whole package without any valid license.
<LaserJock> beuno: just email ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-discuss maybe
<beuno> LaserJock: great, will do, thanks  :D
<minghua> beuno: Do you know *any* other software that has a "GPL + non-commercial clause" license?
<beuno> minghua: I can't think of any right now, but I've heard about it in debian many times
* minghua doesn't think so.
<LaserJock> beuno: given that Debian *removed* the package, I'd be careful
<minghua> Debian removed linuxsampler instead of putting it in non-free for a reason.
<LaserJock> generally if it's non-free they move it to non-free, not remove it completely
<beuno> yeap, although the DD that asked me to help package considered it was OK, so I went for it, I'll email -devel, and if it can't go in, I'll just have learned a but more  :D
<LaserJock> sure
<minghua> -devel is moderated for non-developers, just FYI.
<beuno> hmmm, ok, I'll email ASAP then  :D
<minghua> -devel-discuss is open for all subscribers. :-)
<minghua> The moderation is usually quite in-time, but you never know.
<beuno> oh, -discuss sounds more appropriate
<bmm> beuno: some things you might also want to tell MOTU people to take a look at are: no configure-stamp, but a touch on configure; copy of config.sub and config.guess doesn't need a test (is a build-essential); Changelog can be smaller and should contain "initial release"; Maintaier should be Ubuntu MOTU, you are the XSBC-Original...;
<bmm> beuno: a real MOTU probably won't agree with everything, and the upstream debian thing is your biggest problem at the moment.
<minghua> bmm: config.sub and config.guess (from autotools-dev) is not in build-essential AFAIK.
<beuno> oooh, sounds like a lot needs to be done, I was used to debian guidelines  :D
<beuno> here's the debian bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=328121
<ubotu> Debian bug 328121 in linuxsampler "linuxsampler: Inconsistent and non DFSG free license" [Grave,Open] 
<bmm> beuno: minghua is right on that, you probably need to add autotools-dev to allow for that... Ask a MOTU when it comes to it ;-)
<beuno> will do
<minghua> Hmm.  I wonder why ubotu thinks 328121 is open.
<bmm> beuno: I'm also not sure wether echo '/usr/lib/linuxsampler' >> /etc/ld.so.conf is good to do, probably want an "echo '/usr/lib/linuxsampler' > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/linuxsampler.conf" there.
<bmm> beuno: but I'll stop bombarding you with details, as I'm not MOTU anyway :-)
<beuno> bmm: I'll look into all of it, thanks  :D
<minghua> bmm: The point on touching /etc/ld.so.conf is very good.
<bmm> come to think of it, you probably just want a file installed into that directory, then you could drop the whole postinst/postrm. But I'm not sure about what the policy is.
<Jazzva> Do I need to add Debian's ITP to Ubuntu's needs-packaging bug report?
<beuno> bmm: I think you're looking at the upstream's /debian dir, I don't have any postinst/postrm files
<bmm> beuno: ah, yes, not sure why but I see it's in orig and not mentioned in the diff.gz, so it just sits there untouched?
<beuno> bmm: yeap
<minghua> Jazzva: Yes, please do.  (Not that you *need* to add it, but it's very nice to do so.)
<Jazzva> minghua: Thanks :)... I just wasn't sure if it's usual/possible for needs-packaging.
<bmm> Well, I'm off to bed, but I'll be back in a day or so to get any MOTU to look at boswars. cya
<mohammad> would a MOTU please review (Zekr Quran Translations) ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=75
<rob> does anyone know why schroot would fail to find /bin/bash et all, do I need to build the chroot before using it somehow?
<rob> q
<luisbg> revu sent me this mail
<luisbg> "Rejected:
<luisbg> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution."
<luisbg> but I'm in the Ubuntu Universe Contributors Group launchpad team
<luisbg> what other things I need to be able to upload to REVU?
<beuno> luisbg: have you followed the steps to make sure you're uploading to REVU and not Ubuntu (which is the default)
<luisbg> beuno, I read that REVU is by default in dput now
<luisbg> going to check
<luisbg> oops
<beuno> :D
<beuno> I went through exactly that a few hours ago
<Hobbsee> luisbg: it's not.  it never has been.
<Hobbsee> luisbg: it never will be
<luisbg> yeah, ubuntu was the default host
<luisbg> changed it to revu
<luisbg> Hobbsee, why not?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: because the ubuntu developers upload direct to ubuntu
<Hobbsee> luisbg: and so the decision is made to keep the scripts with no extra options for motu's/core devs, and add extra switches and stuff for the people who dont have upload access
<luisbg> Hobbsee, and the motu to revu :P
<luisbg> ahhh I see
<Hobbsee> MOTU dont use revu for uploading new packages.  they dont need to.
<luisbg> who have upload access to ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> well, for the most part
<Hobbsee> motu and core dev
* luisbg needs to be a motu soon
<Hobbsee> (depending on the section that you're uploading to)
<luisbg> I'm technically in the motu process
<luisbg> just haven't had too much time to go through it
<luisbg> packaging anyway
<luisbg> Hobbsee, btw... how is all?
<Hobbsee> sorry?
<luisbg> how are you doing
<Hobbsee> luisbg: also remember that a whole bunch of these scripts come from debian, and the addresses are changed for ubuntu - so they tend to work in the same way for both distributions
<Hobbsee> i'm doing OK
<luisbg> cool
<luisbg> thanks for the help
<Hobbsee> no problem
<luisbg> I'm waiting for the revu sync to check it is in now
<Hobbsee> sec.
<Hobbsee> it's not automated anymore
<luisbg> the package is the ubuntustudio-menu
<luisbg> I invite everybody to check it, and look if it is ok for universe
<luisbg> Hobbsee, hmmm? how does it work now?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: is it already uploaded?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: it got moved, so it's a bit fo a WIP
<luisbg> yes... Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<luisbg> ...   ubuntustudio-menu_0.1_source.changes: done.
<luisbg> Successfully uploaded packages.
<luisbg> Hobbsee, you got to pull the plug to make it sync? :S
<Hobbsee> luisbg: yeah
<luisbg> :S
<Hobbsee> luisbg: it's taking a long time to do, as it's a slower machine
* Hobbsee waits for that to appear
<luisbg> automatic stuff is better almost all the time
<Hobbsee> thsi is true, but if it's taking around an hour...
<luisbg> Hobbsee, thanks
<luisbg> how slow is the "slower machine"?
<Hobbsee> rather
<Hobbsee> (it's not mine)
<luisbg> heh
<luisbg> faster revu machine spec?
<luisbg> anyone?
<Hobbsee> i'ts on an interim server, like the topic says
<Hobbsee> the new machine isnt yet connected to teh network
<TheMuso> luisbg: I am downloading it now.
<luisbg> TheMuso, downloading it from where?
<TheMuso> luisbg: revu
<luisbg> is it up?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<luisbg> I don't see it in the website
<TheMuso> Its at the bottom.
<luisbg> ahhh there it is
<luisbg> what a beauty
<luisbg> Hobbsee and TheMuso, thanks for all
<luisbg> 3:50 am here
<TheMuso> And I just realised that I am not yet a reviewer.
<luisbg> gonna go sleep
<luisbg> =) ciao!
<TheMuso> luisbg: Ok I'll have a look and let you know.
<luisbg> goodnight... see you tomorrow
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: which email do you use to login?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: themuso@u.c?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: themuso@ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: changed
<Hobbsee> Altering themuso@ubuntu.com to level reviewer
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: THanks
<Hobbsee> no problem
<TheMuso> meh. THis package has problems already.
<TheMuso> I have already found two.
<TheMuso> ok now I can't seem to log in.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: did you try recovering the password?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: gah sorry! Seems that I am actually using themuso@themuso.com to log in.
<TheMuso> just so used to using @u.c with it. :)
<TheMuso> but since everything changed...
<Hobbsee> ahhh :)
<TheMuso> sorrrrryyyyy
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: no problem, try again
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you should actually be able to login - there's a valid password listed here for you
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yeah I know. I do have it.
<TheMuso> Ah! Thats better.
<Hobbsee> cool
<TheMuso> Now to be an absolute bastard with this package.
<TheMuso> as there is a lot done badly.
<Hobbsee> haha
* TheMuso looks at a package like this, and automatically thinks... cdbs!!
<xtknight> greetings
* Hobbsee waves
<xtknight> hello Hobbsee long time
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<xtknight> been on a vacation myself but it feels nice to be back :P
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee wonders what holidays and such are
<xtknight> sometimes the mind needs to be cleansed before working on more dpkgs
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I am with you there...what is a holiday again? :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: no idea.
<nixternal> maybe one of these days I will figure it out
<xtknight> it is that where everyone around you is doing stuff where you are sitting at home doing nothing
<nixternal> ahhh, OK, then I am on holiday everyday then :D
<xtknight> only holidays for me are birthday and other self-created holidays, trips to newegg.com order button, etc
<Hobbsee> xtknight: oh right, i thougth they were called weekends.
<nixternal> hell, I don't even know what the sun is yet
<RAOF> It's the big ball of fire outside, where the bears are.
<Hobbsee> oh, that's a type of machine.
* RAOF waves
* Hobbsee glares at RAOF
* RAOF reads up on what needs to be in the email
<mattg> can anybody help me add UDF Volume Support?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Care to review a MOTU application?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: sure
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<TheMuso> RAOF: I was *THIS* close to recommending you.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Seriously dude, you WILL be a shoe in.
<RAOF> Heh, thanks :)
<StevenK> I should subscribe to motu-council so I can say nice things about RAOF
<RAOF> What the hell?  Bug #134842 is a needs-packaging for a piece of OS X software!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134842 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  Fairmount" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134842
* TheMuso still has memroies of the days when the tech board appointed new MOTUs.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: looks fine
<StevenK> TheMuso: Me too
<RAOF> Right.  Now to hunt down the email addresses of my sponsors so I can CC them :)
<StevenK> RAOF: If I'm not on your sponsors list, add me too
<TheMuso> RAOF: It isn't by chance a cross-platform app?
<StevenK> RAOF: Actually, I should be - I uploaded kvm and specto (both Debian and Ubuntu) for you. :-)
<RAOF> TheMuso: Not as far as I can see on the project page.  All OS X screenshots, and it seems heavily tied into the OS X system.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ah ok.
* TheMuso stops procrastinating and goes to do something useful.
<TheMuso> back in a bit.
<RAOF> Hm.  How can I find who sponsored my uploads?
<Hobbsee> errr....
<Hobbsee> short of decrypting the key on the accepted mails in gutsy changes...
<Hobbsee> i'd just put the ones you remember, i think
<TheMuso> Bugmail?
<Hobbsee> or bugmail, there's a thought
<RAOF> Yah, I'll hunt through that.
<RAOF> Hm.  I suppose that tracker-search is probably meant to return some form of search results at some point.
<Hobbsee> hah
<RAOF> Wow.  I had no idea I had so many sponsors.
<RAOF> !nickspam | nuu
<ubotu> nuu: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines
<RAOF> That would be really annoying if I wasn't doing something else :P
<StevenK> RAOF: How many sponsors?
<RAOF> 7, I think.  I've sent off the email now.
<RAOF> Also, I don't think that's actually everyone, just the people who appear in mail containing "fix released" in my bugmail folder.
<RAOF> Hm, I wonder if it's worth trying for a UVFe for Empathy.
<nuu> really sorry about the nickspam, just my psybnc being stupid
<nuu> should be ok now, at least until i reconnect ;)
<RAOF> nuu: That's OK.  It's just kinda annoying ;)
<nuu> yeah, i know
<RAOF> Heh, too slow on the Empathy front :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i thought there was one, i thought i ack'd it
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Indeed, that's what I meant.
<Hobbsee> :)
<RAOF> I was just looking at the "hey, there's a new version of empathy".  Turns out we already know, and have already ack'd the UVFe :)
<rob> do we still use pbuilder with gutsy?
<RAOF> You can, yes.
<rob> what is everyone using though?
<RAOF> I use sbuild, because I've got a box with LVM set up as a buildd.
<RAOF> That's faster than pbuilder, and sends automated build logs by email.
<StevenK> I use both
* Hobbsee uses pbuilder
* Fujitsu hasn't had cause to use pbuilder since setting up sbuild.
<rob> sbuild gives me the error "mailto not set" when trying to set it up
<rob> any ideas how to fix that one?
<Fujitsu> Set mailto in ~/.sbuildrc
* TheMuso uses sbuild.
<rob> Fujitsu, ok I don't have one of those, what is the format of the file to set that?
<TheMuso> aving a log generated without specifically requesting it is a good thing.
<TheMuso> And, through lvm snapshots, allows package install/removal testing to be a snap.
<rob> bugger it, I'll just use pbuilder :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: TheMuso you're all getting moderated...
<Hobbsee> clearly you dont subscribe to the MC
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I do.
<TheMuso> Its not to say that RAOF's other sponsors are though
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: none of the mail has hit the MC yet
<Hobbsee> wait, yorus has
* Hobbsee suggests people use "MOTU application for x", so as to not get threaded onto other applicaitons.
<Hobbsee> or start a new mail
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Woudln't that depend on which email client you use? I know for a fact Mutt can determine the difference, even if the subject is the same.
<TheMuso> due to some thread headers that get added somewhere along the line.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true.  thunderbird usually picks up headings, but may not have this time, due to the original mail not getting to the list yet
<Hobbsee> oh, hmmm.  weird
<RAOF> That's actually one beef I have with gmail, it doesn't thread properly.
<RAOF> Should I actually be subscribed to MC?  I suppose that's where my application will be discussed, so I might as well.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: if people forget to CC you...
<coNP> Good morning!
<Hobbsee> morning coNP
<coNP> Hey Hobbsee
<coNP> Are bugfixes ever meant to cause an UVFe? I guess not, no matter if they are bugfix releases or they are patches. Am I right?
<Hobbsee> bugfix releases should be fine
<Hobbsee> it's the ones with new features that ar eteh worry
<coNP> And patches to fix bugs are also fine, right?
<Hobbsee> of course
<Hobbsee> would seem slightly crazy to take all the patches from the usptream release, and apply them as patches, though.
<Hobbsee> as in, same code gets in the release, but with a lot more effort.  seems pointless.
* coNP advocates boswars now. 
<jeromeg> ScottK: I added some additional information some my UVFe request : bug 134730
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134730 in dvgrab "[UVFe] Please sync dvgrab 3.0-1 (universe) from debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134730
<jeromeg> could you please have a look ?
<TheMuso> Oh I forgot. Congrats coNP.
<coNP> Thanks TheMuso :)
<kompozer> hello there
<kompozer> I have a make: dh_testdir: Command not found when using pbuilder
<kompozer> though a simple fakeroot debian/rules clean works perfectly
<kompozer> can anyoune please help me with this?
<kompozer> s/anyoune/anyone/
<TheMuso> kompozer: At what point does that error occur?
<kompozer> TheMuso: right when pbuilder starts the fakeroot debian/rules clean
<TheMuso> kompozer: Is debhelper listed as a dependency for your package in Build-Depends in the control file?
* kompozer looking
<kompozer> no :-/
<TheMuso> kompozer: Well I suggest you add debhelper (>= 5) to your Build-Depends field.
<kompozer> TheMuso: in fact I didn't even have any Build-Depends field
<TheMuso> kompozer: Well if you want your package to build, you will need it.
<kompozer> TheMuso: I have just added the "Build-Depends" field, did a debuild -S, then tried pbuilder again. Fakeroot has been installed but not debhelper. So I still get the same error
<TheMuso> coNP: I'll join you on revu shortly, and will hopefull be able to give a second ack to the packages you have looked at.
<coNP> TheMuso: cool
<coNP> I was wondering if I should ask someone to do this :)
<TheMuso> kompozer: Where did you put your Build-Depends field?
<TheMuso> !packagingguide | kompozer
<ubotu> kompozer: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<TheMuso> coNP: I'll just get a few announcements sent out to the MOTU list, and then I'll join you.
<coNP> TheMuso: Okay. Take your time :)
<norsetto> morning
<coNP> Hey norsetto.
<norsetto> Hey coNP; I'm glad I'm not the only madman around ;-)
* coNP hides
<geser> Hi norsetto
<kompozer> TheMuso: thanks for your help, the build-deps field was at the wrong line
<norsetto> geser: morgen :-)
<TheMuso> kompozer: Welcome.
<TheMuso> Ok, that takes care of that lot.
* coNP silently watches TheMuso spamming the MOTU lists... :P
<norsetto> TheMuso: did you get the email from highvoltage about mentoring?
<TheMuso> norsetto: WHich one?
<TheMuso> The last one I got from him was the general ping that gets sent out occasionally.
<norsetto> TheMuso: ok, we agreed that he was sending you an email with the new pupil; guess he was too busy the last twi days
<TheMuso> norsetto: Ok.
<norsetto> Themuso: if I don't see it tomorrow I'll send it myself
<TheMuso> Ok.
* coNP has some ideas to teach to ubotu  
<TheMuso> heh
* coNP reviews evolution-rss
<norsetto> coNP: I see you have advocated boswar; what is this when I try to debuild it: Checking for C library png... no
<norsetto> Did not find png library or headers, exiting!
<coNP> norsetto: I did a pbuilder build. Are you sure you installed everything that is needed?
* coNP tries again to build boswars
* coNP advocates evolution-rss
<norsetto> coNP: no pbuilder yet, that was a simple debuild -S -sa
<coNP> norsetto: I guess you should install libpng then.
<norsetto> coNP: I had to install scons, anything else needed?
<coNP> norsetto: check the build deps :)
<coNP> norsetto: debuild should enumerate any missing dependencies.
<coNP> I mean build dependencies
* TheMuso reviews xgrep
* coNP reviews scolily
<TheMuso> Its not imperative if a package's copyright file doesn't mention when the package was debianized?
<geser> there should be no need to run configure in clean
<norsetto> coNP: any reason to have liblualib50-dev listed twice in build-depnds?
<norsetto> coNP: take it back, its not twice
<coNP> norsetto: liblualib != liblua
<coNP> BTW I guess the second depends on the first. I'll check
<coNP> Yeah.
<coNP> So liblua should go IMHO
<norsetto> coNP: yeah, I only installed liblualib and liblua is a required dependency of it
<coNP> norsetto: thanks for pointing out this.
<coNP> norsetto: do you have reviewer rights in REVU?
<TheMuso> coNP: He is not a MOTU yet.
<coNP> Sure. He is a recepcionist.
<norsetto> TheMuso: he is not a MOTU fullstop ;-)
<TheMuso> norsetto: But you will be one day, won't you. :)
<coNP> Actually I mentioned this in my previous comment
<norsetto> TheMuso: dunno
* coNP is for the eventual MOTUfication of norsetto :)
<coNP> Or MOTUification?
<coNP> I am not sure... :)
<TheMuso> heh
<norsetto> finally it builds! I had to download half of the bloody repository :-)
<norsetto> coNP: you know, I'm a receptionist only thanks to my long and slender legs .....
<TheMuso> hahahahaha
* coNP commented boswars. Thanks norsetto 
* norsetto bows
<norsetto> btw: if you guys need help with REVU today, I can always check a package and let you know my comments
<coNP> norsetto: let us know if you have any useful comments on any packages.
<norsetto> coNP: useful I don't know; I certainly hope they will be
<norsetto> coNP: just a stupid comment on boswars (I just installed it). the two icon names are the same, and you only recognise the difference when you hover your mouse over them. Perhpas it would make sense to rename the OpenGL .desktop file as Bos Wars GL
<TheMuso> uploading xgrep...
<coNP> norsetto: I personally think it is not an usual scenario to install both.
<coNP> TheMuso: cool :)
<norsetto> coNP: why not? for instance I have got two installations, one with accelerated 3d and the other not
<coNP> Okay. You are right :)
<geser> TheMuso: are you uploading to the right target now?
<TheMuso> coNP: re evolution-rss. I couldn't advocate, because the debian/copyright file didn't mention where to find the GPL-2 license.
<geser> you right uploading to Debian
<TheMuso> geser: heh yeah.
<TheMuso> Twas in a hurry last night, and was doing a batch upload.
<TheMuso> Back in a bit. Want to reboot this box.
<coNP> TheMuso: it says it is at /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<coNP> Oh. Not exactly. You are right.
* coNP reviews libvisual-projectm
<norsetto> do you guys know what a fake sync is?
<geser> yes
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Normally used when somebody managed to stuff up the versioning, or a .orig.tar.gz differs between Debian and Ubuntu. It just means that Ubuntu delta (other than the changelog) has been dropped, but it can't be synced from Debian for some reason.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: ok, for instance if it is in the new queue?
<Fujitsu> I guess that would work, too.
<Fujitsu> As long as it is identical to the version in NEW.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: in that case, it would not make sense to wait for the package to be in the official repo? Or pehaprs there is an urgency due to the UVFe
<Fujitsu> norsetto: NFPU is in 4 days, so there is quite some urgency.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: ok, thx
<norsetto> coNP: I have very few comments on tapioca; what is your email address?
<coNP> norsetto: you can pastebin that to somewhere. Or msg me
<norsetto> coNP: emailed them; they are really minor anyhow
<coNP> norsetto: I added your comments
<coNP> Thanks for your work
<coNP> norsetto: Do you check package by hand or with some tool, BTW?
<norsetto> coNP: you mean the REVU tools? I can't use them, so its really by hand+debuild/pbuilder/lintian/linda etc.
<coNP> I don't know what REVU tools are.
<coNP> I have heard about them though, I guess
<norsetto> coNP: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/REVU-Tools
<norsetto> coNP: its only for REVU admins
<coNP> you can use them on your machine as well
<coNP> ... but reading still in progress ...
<coNP> :)
<norsetto> coNP: apparently you can access the REVU_report though
<norsetto> coNP: time for lunch :-)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> urgh
<_wattazoum_> hello,
<_wattazoum_> I need some help here, I have just tried to upload my packages to REVU and got rejected ( Rejected:
<_wattazoum_> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.) Even though I am on ubuntu-universe-contributor team
<_wattazoum_> what should I do ?
<TheMuso> _wattazoum_: did you ensure you were uploading to revu? do "dput revu changesfile"
<_wattazoum_> Nice one ^^ ( I did dput "package-version_source.changes")
<_wattazoum_> like in the wiki
<_wattazoum_> TheMuso:  Thank you very much
<_wattazoum_> I guess that was the problem
<TheMuso> _wattazoum_: You're welcome.
<elkbuntu> hmm... baaaaaaad oo.o. I never told you that you could suck up 98% of CPU and 74% of memory to change locale
<Jazzva> Hmm... It's not OK to include WAV files in a package, right? I'm not sure if they are really needed...
<coNP> Jazzva: why?
<Jazzva> coNP: Well, they are binary files, after all... And I thought that it's not okay to include binaries. On the other side, pictures and stuff are binaries and are needed for icons in programs :). That's why I'm not sure...
<coNP> I guess you can include them. It might be a good idea though to put them in a separate binary package like <packagename>-sound
<Jazzva> coNP: Right... thanks. I still need to check if they're important for a package...
<Lamego> Jazzva, if they take a significant size, it makes sense to have them on a -sound or -data, because they are architecture independent
<coNP> OTOH why would an upstream tarball contain "unimportant" files... :)
<Lamego> if they are small, splitting them will just create another package, without any benefit, in my opinion
<Jazzva> coNP: Some examples of something :)... Lamego, thanks for the help
<Lamego> if you are unsure they are needed, they should not be installed at all, to avoid you the need to verify the wav copyrights ;)
<coNP> Oh sure :)
<Lamego> if they are needed, you will test the software, and it will fail :P
<coNP> REVU tools are cool
<Jazzva> I guess so :)..
<TheMuso> Ok I'm outa here.
<Jazzva> One more thing... I need this package as a build-dep for another package... I suppose it should be a library package then... Any info related to making library packages?
<Jazzva> *Any info on the web...
<Lamego> Jazzva, according to google: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<Lamego> :P
<Jazzva> Lamego: thanks a lot :D... I will look at it :).
<Lamego> funny, "guidelines" on google, returns Debian on the first page of links
<Lamego> :D
<Jazzva> ...and GNOME ;)...
<Lamego> yup :)
<norsetto> coNP have you got the tools locally?
<coNP> Yyes
<coNP> -y
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> someone said they'd be willing to donate some server bandwidth to me for my python lessons
<cbx33> heheh is the offer still available
<cbx33> i'll need to run an icecast server on it
<norsetto> coNP: you know, I'm wondering why there is no official check-list or a review-guidance sheet. For debian sponsorships they have this: http://wiki.debian.org/SponsorChecklist
<cbx33> ping imbrandon yo ude you around
<cbx33> i think i found a work around
<pygi> meh, cbx33 !
<cbx33> hey pygi
<coNP> norsetto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Reviewing provides some kind of list. Not full or official, though
<cbx33> howz it going
<norsetto> coNP: ok, thx for that
<geser> see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewPackageRequirements when checking the license info
<jussi01> Hey everyone
<jussi01> Is there still time to get a new package into gutsy? if so, when does the opportunity expire?
<StevenK> When the new packages freeze for universe kicks in, in about four days.
<jussi01> ok, great, Id better get working then :)
<Lamego> until the 30th if i am not mistaken
<norsetto> how could one check for the reason of a new package rejection (from the archive-admins)? Is it possible?
<bmm> Hi, I've got a comment I'm not sure how to handle: I'm doing boswars-data (= ${source:Version}), but I'm told I should use another variable (${binary:Version}???). What variable should I use and where can I find a list of them? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=78
<bmm> (I simply stole the ${source:Version} thing from xmoto, and can't find any documentation on which substitution variable are predefined)
<coNP> bmm: checking
<bmm> coNP: no hurry, I've got enough other things to change ;-)
<coNP> bmm: okay. Change them.  :)
<bmm> :-)
<coNP> What is this upstream tarball issue?
<coNP> The others are only smaller issues.
<bmm> coNP: that's my fault, the upstream tarball contains a boswars-src instead of a boswars directory. In my stupidity I moved it to bowars before my dh_make
<bmm> My bad
<norsetto> riddell: ping
<bmm> coNP: "no need to put license.txt in the data package", does that mean I can leave LICENSE.txt out of the debian/docs file? (how do I exclude only the data package from having it?)
<coNP> I guess what you put in docs will be in every package
<coNP> You should use the .install file
<bmm> coNP: ok, thanks!
<bmm> Is this warning avoided somehow? "warning: source directory './boswars-2.4-src' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> 'boswars-2.4'"
<bmm> (and a problem?)
<coNP> bmm: it is not a problem, especially if you can avoid to change orig.tar.gz :)
<bmm> coNP: ok, then I'm dputting it now, I'll also post a comment on what has been done and what went wrong ;-)
<coNP> bmm: cool :). Cannot wait boswars appearing in the Ubuntu repositories :)
<bmm> coNP: made a mistake again, it uploaded the old orig tarball, don't advocate or look at it yet ;-)
<coNP> okay :)
<bmm> coNP: ping for boswars: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=84
<coNP> bmm: checking...
<bmm> coNP: I'm online for a at least another few hours, so take your time. If you can find more out on the binNMUable thing, that would also be appreciated. Also the copyright is very important, I don't want it bouncing out of the archive ;-)
<bmm> coNP: not trying to tell you how to do your thing, just worried :)
<coNP> Okay
* coNP tries to handle everything...
* bmm feels very demanding and decides to shut up for now.
<ScottK> Generically speaking bin-nmu is not applicable to Ubuntu.  We do it differently.
<coNP> Hey ScottK
<ScottK> Hey.  I'm not really here.
<bmm> ScottK: if ubuntu is more flexible (which seems to be the case) then I can see no reason not to do it the strict way ;-)
<ScottK> I'm trying to get some other stuff done, but I can answer a quick question.
<bmm> (although it doesn't matter for this package)
* coNP is sorry for noticing ScottK :)
<ScottK> bmm: I agree, but personally I wouldn't block an upload to Ubuntu on a binnmu issue.
<ScottK> Not problem, just didn't want to get jumped on by everybody.
<bmm> ScottK: OK, no further questions, good luck with your work!
* coNP guesses it was not a blocker. 
<norsetto> coNP: ScottK who? I see no ScottK.
* coNP has sharper eyes...
* norsetto should really try not to use these 8-) inside.....
<coNP> bmm: sistpoty seems to watch from a hidden place :)
<norsetto> bmm: any reason for boswars-data to not depend on boswars or boswars-gl?
<norsetto> bmm: reason for asking is that removing boswars or boswars-gl do not remove boswars-data
* AndyP mutters rude words about svn merge
<coNP> bmm: you can remove LICENSE.txt.gz from all packages
<geser> norsetto: the reason is that this would introduce a cyclic depends
<norsetto> geser: yes, both depending on each other, is that bad?
<bmm> coNP: ok, so that means I can go back to a single docs file again, right?
<coNP> norsetto: aptitude or apt-get would remove boswars-data. Or at least mention that nothing depends on that
<norsetto> geser: is there no way to solve this? I expect that somebody that removes boswars also wants to remove the 70 MB of boswars-data
<norsetto> coNP: no, they will not remove it, perhaps they will just mention that they can be autoremoved
<geser> norsetto: cyclic depends are problematic as dpkg doesn't know where to start and is forced to break of those depends
<coNP> norsetto: that is enough :)
<Lamego> norsetto, -data files do not usually depend on the "master" package, they just suggest it, at least from most of the official packages I have worked with
<coNP> norsetto: you might have installed boswars-data explicitly
<geser> norsetto: there was as larger discussion about cyclic depends on debian-devel ML some time ago if you are interested in the reasons
<Lamego> theoretically, the -data can provide resources to a 3rd party app, which will have it as a depend, and for which the primary package may not be required
<norsetto> geser: et al. perhaps becuase I use dpkg to install, but removing boswars do not suggest an autoremove of boswars-data
<coNP> norsetto: that is what I thought "installed explicitly"
<norsetto> lamego: well, in this case it seems strange that noob users will not know they have 70 useless  MB on their HD
<ScottK> norsetto: Noob users will get it automatically and it'll be up for automatic removal.
<norsetto> ScootK: ok, so apt-get will take care of that?
<Lamego> if you have manually installed package X, you should know that you have it ;)
<bmm> coNP: I've changed to a single debian/docs with no LINCENSE.txt mentioned, let me know if you have more comments or would like another upload.
<norsetto> lamego: heck, have a look at the answer tracker, and you will surprised what noob users are capable of ......
<Lamego> norsetto, features are not implemented on manual misuse, are based on common use ;)
<Lamego> based on
<coNP> based on common nonsense :D
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  When you do apt-get autoremove
<norsetto> lamego: in any case, as ScottK says that apt-get will take care of that, that would do
<Lamego> packages are not responsible for tracking other packages that depend on them, they dont have the authority do say "I am only required for Y" :P
<coNP> norsetto: it will. Since you are not likely to install "boswars-data" but either "boswars" or "boswars-gl" that would imply to install "boswars-data" as well as a dependency
<norsetto> coNP: yeah, the trick is to install with apt-get, not dpkg
<ScottK> Anyone who uses dpkg directly should understand this stuff.
<norsetto> ScottK: "should" :-)
<ScottK> And if they don't, it's not a bug in the package or dpkg.
<norsetto> ScottK: indeed
<coNP> ... but you still cannot file bugs against LP users...
<xtknight> what's the tool to edit a diff file?
<Lamego> is there any way to force apt-get to resolve dependencies from a repository not listed on sources.lst ?
<Lamego> xtknight, a text editor :P ?
<Lamego> or you mean a dpatch ?
<bmm> coNP: what kind of bug would you like to post? "Dependency not met: IQ >= 20"?
<Lamego> or some other tool I dont know :P
<xtknight> hmm
<xtknight> i dont know
<xtknight> i will just remake the patch, i guess
<bmm> xtknight: the best way is to just remake the patch ;-)
<coNP> xtknight: editdiff
<xtknight> it is a rather small mod (e.g. author name)
<ScottK> xtknight: dpatch-edit-patch and cdbs-edit-patch too, depending on what you are doing.
<xtknight> i put the wrong emial in my changelog
<ScottK> xtknight: If it doesn't change the number of lines in the patch, just use any text editor.
<bmm> You could probably just use a text editor for that.
<xtknight> k
<bmm> But if you want to make more changes in the future, you are probably better of working in the originals and do a 'dch -e' after setting up your debian packaging environment variables.
<bmm> coNP: I've had a comment on the license file from sistpoty. If you can't find anything else, I would like to do another upload. Let me know what you think.
<coNP> bmm: still checking :)
<bmm> coNP: ok, I'll be patient.
<xtknight> does dch do something special other than just nano debian/changeloG?
<coNP> bmm: okay for me. So the only thing is that you can remove LICENSE as GPL is available.
<coNP> bmm: not that I would consider this as a blocker
<bmm> coNP: Ok, I'll dput what I have commented on now. I'll ping you again when it has arived. Thanks for your time!
<coNP> xtknight: it knows about a lot of things how to edit the changelog. But basically, yes. It opens debian/changelog with a newly added template in your EDITOR.
<norsetto> bmm: I mentioned this to coNP, I have installed both boswars and from the menu I cannot distinguish which one is gl (of course I can hover with the mouse over it). The problem is that the menu entry is named after the Name field you use, and in both you use Name=Bos wars
<ThibG> sorry for the multiple dputs on scolily, I mess up with making the orig ( yeah, it wasn't clean, and... since I'm the original author )
<coNP> ThibG: no problem :). Ping me if you think you have something worth reviewing :)
<bmm> norsetto: yes, I thought mentioning the fact it is GL or not would not be a thing for the menu, because to the user it's just boswars. So I've chosen to only mention the OpenGL part in the comment.
* coNP personally thinks bmm is right. 
<bmm> norsetto: I think that if the users are going to make a choice, they would do it in package management, not in the menu. But I don't know about the policy and am open for discussion.
<ThibG> Can someone say me if there is an incoming scolily dput? (scolily's orig isn't up-to-date on REVU)
<coNP> ThibG: did you finish your upload?
<ThibG> coNP, yes
<coNP> ThibG: did you create a package with -sa (.orig.tar.gz)
<coNP> ThibG: you can check your .upload file if the .orig.tar.gz got uploaded
<bmm> ThibG: how much time has gone by, and did you do dput -f revu package_source.changes?
<norsetto> bmm: to me, it doesn't make sense to have two menu entries with the same name pointing to two differrent executable, but its just a personal opinion, I don't think there is anything in the freedesktop.org spec whcih covers this
<ThibG> the last orig doesn't have a debian/ directory
<bmm> norsetto: You are right on that, but I personally think there is no reason to have both installed in the first place.
<coNP> ThibG: I can confirm this based on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=86
<norsetto> bmm: yes, its a rare case, I install both because I might login with my 3d enabled installation
<ThibG> coNP, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/scolily-0708261930/scolily-0.4/ <- it says there is a debian/ dir
<coNP> ThibG: sure. In the debian .dif
<coNP> +f
<ThibG> oh yeah, right
<ThibG> so, the package may be correct, now
<bmm> norsetto: Hmm... still not completely convinced, but I can see the benefit when you are using things like xforward or something else that isn't really opengl friendly. If you are going to have both installed, I could add (OpenGL) to the name...
<norsetto> bmm: I think it is a worthy change, and its not costing hours of manpower to do it (and I 'm sure somebody will file a bug on that)
<bmm> norsetto:  OK, I'll do it, because I just got to thinking it might help with bugreports users are doing.
<norsetto> bmm: hartelijk bedankt voor een uitstekende package ;-)
<bmm> norsetto: NP
<ThibG> coNP, scolily should be correct, now
* coNP is away now for some hours. I'll review both boswars and scolily if needed when I come back.
<coNP> bmm, ThibG  ^^^
* norsetto waves coNP goodbye
<bmm> coNP: thanks! I'll ping you if it appears online
<ThibG> coNP, thanks
<norsetto> ThibG: you are the packager for scolily right?
<ThibG> norsetto, yes
<norsetto> ThibG: I have got a couple of comments on the desktop file if you want them
<ThibG> ok
<norsetto> ThibG: this entry: Encoding=UTF-8 is deprecated
<ThibG> ok
<norsetto> ThibG: For this entry: Icon=scolily.svg; it would be better to avoid the file extension
<ThibG> ok
<norsetto> ThibG: and Application is not a valid category
<norsetto> ThibG: if you wait few seconds I will check with a validation tool (you can also install it yourself, its called validate-desktop-file and is in the desktop-file-utils package
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> it says Encoding is required
<bmm> coNP: ping, boswars can now be found at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=87
<norsetto> ThibG: the you are using the feisty version
<ThibG> yes
<norsetto> ThibG: you really need the gutsy version (you can also install it from source from freedesktop.org)
<norsetto> ThibG: I just checked, and it was only those 3 I gave you already, in any case
<norsetto> ThibG: do you want an italian translation?
<ThibG> norsetto, oh, that'll be nice :)
<ThibG> I'm not sure I'll put the new desktop file into the .deb ( I'm not familiar with debian packaging yet ) but it'll sure be in the next release ( I'm also scolily's dev )
<norsetto> Name[it] =Registrare delle partizioni scolily
<norsetto> ThibG: as you wish, but be aware that your package could be rejected
<ThibG> hm yes...
<norsetto> ThibG: Comment[it] =Crea delle partizioni al volo registrando con un microfono
<geser> bmm: re boswars: the short descript in debian/control shouldn't start with the word "a" (see http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-synopsis )
<bmm> geser: good find, I'll edit that...
<ThibG> Does modifying this .desktop file require a patch system ( I've just heard about this, never tried yet ) ?
<ThibG> ( and thanks for the translation :) )
<bmm> geser: should I do another upload, or are you still looking?
<norsetto> ThibG: yes, its not in your debian directory, so you must patch it or change it in your tarball release (since you are upstream the latter its much easier)
<geser> bmm: that's the only issue I found, but it's not necessary to do an upload just for it (it's only minor)
<ThibG> norsetto, ok, I'll update the tarball
<bmm> geser: Well, I'm going to do another upload for it anyway, so then I'll just set a timer for 10 minutes and upload it again.
* RainC1 is looking for an easy to solve bug
<norsetto> ThibG: if you want a .po with the italian translation I can help you with that too
<RainC1> ok I think I found one :p
<bmm> geser: do you think I should mention the name of the boswars packages, boswars and boswars-gl, in the boswars-data description? (adding something like: to play the boswars game install either boswars or boswars-gl?)
<ThibG> norsetto, if you wish, but scolily 0.4 has been released ;)
<norsetto> ThibG: I don't care, for the future release, as long as it can be useful for you
<ThibG> ok, thanks :)
<norsetto> ThibG: did you write the man page for Debian? It says so in it.
<ThibG> norsetto, I've written a short manpage, in English
<norsetto> ThibG: yes, you just say at the end that you have written it for debian (but it may be used for others)
<ThibG> yes, I've sent the package to mentors.debian.net too
<norsetto> ThibG: ok
<norsetto> ThibG: be aware that some reviewer could complain about the autostuff you have in the .diff.gz
<ThibG> what autostuff in the .diff.gz?
<geser> bmm: you can recommend boswars | boswars-gl (or the other way around). This doesn't introduce a cyclic depends but apt/aptitude install recommended packages by default you one gets also the game binary if one just installs the -data package
<ThibG> oh, I see, I've maybe not unpacked the tarball when I fixed the dist thing
<ThibG> :/
<norsetto> ThibG: you have changes in makefile.am, makefile.in and autogen.sh
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> I'll fix it
<ThibG> norsetto, don't forget to put your name in translator-credits, if you translate scolily ;)
<norsetto> ThibG: and also several changes in some .po files (it guess because of the same problem)
<ThibG> that's strange... I really messed up with the tarballs :/
<bmm> geser: might be nice, I would have to look up the recommendations, never did that before... doing that now.
<norsetto> ThibG: perhaps, also the icons and the desktop file
<ThibG> norsetto, ok, I've uploaded a new version of the package
<ThibG> it should be much cleanier
<norsetto> ThibG: ok, I'm building the old one just to see how it goes
<norsetto> ThibG: its an interesting program, I wish I had it 30 years ago
<bmm> geser: Hmm... now I'm wondering wether it is "perfectly reasonable" to install the data without the binary or not (Recommend or suggest?)?
<ThibG> norsetto, not sure I was able to do this, not born ;)
<norsetto> ThibG: hmmm, we have a little cdbs/debhelper problem
<ThibG> ah?
<norsetto> ThibG: postrm/posinst files are generate with calls to ldconfig (which is not needed)
<ThibG> yeah, and there is something to avoid that?
<norsetto> ThibG: I don't know right now
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> The new package is uploaded
<bmm> geser: I've added "Recommends: boswars | boswars-gl" and ready to upload again, are you ok with that?
<norsetto> ThibG: there is a warning from dpkg-gencontrol but its ok
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> what is this warning?
<ThibG> strange, that fails to build, now :/
<norsetto> ThibG: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<norsetto> ThibG: I think lilypond should actually be recommended; I don't think the program can work without it?
<ThibG> norsetto, the program can work without lilypond: it just output a lilypond score, not parse it ( btw, it can output ABC music and midifiles too)
<norsetto> ThibG: yeah, but I used it, and when it asked me to save, it crashed (as I don't have lilypond)
<ThibG> Damn! Why make dist doesn't add scolily.desktop :/
<ThibG> norsetto, it *crashed* ? It didn't say you that you haven't lilypond?
<norsetto> ThibG: yes, and it crashed
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> I think I know why
<norsetto> ThibG: perhaps you should also say where the pdf file is (ok, I know, RTFM)
<geser> bmm: that looks correct
<ThibG> norsetto, that's interesting
<ThibG> you reported two bugs, thanks :)
<norsetto> ThibG: de rien; where is the pdf file actually, I can't find any reference in the lilypond docs
<ThibG> norsetto, in the working dir
<ThibG> that's the second "bug"
<ThibG> ;)
<norsetto> hehehe
<norsetto> ThibG: too bad, I wanted to check how in tune I sing :-(
<norsetto> ThibG: I might have another one actually
<ThibG> ah?
<norsetto> ThibG: I deleted the 3 Test files (.ly, .pdf and .ps) and when I click on Start to repeat, crash....
<bmm> geser: The new version is online here now: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=90 if you have some time, check it out.
<ThibG> norsetto, I'll see if I can reproduct it
<norsetto> ThibG: no need to delete the files, it crashes anyhow
<ThibG> strange, not with me
<ThibG> oh, but there's something strange
<ThibG> norsetto, I can't reproduce it, strange
<ThibG> Anyway, thanks for the feedback :)
<norsetto> ThibG: its consistent, after one recording, press start and crash
<norsetto> ThibG: Also, I can't record anything (perhaps just a fault with my voice)
<ThibG> Hm... I'm going to re-build scolily and test again
<norsetto> ThibG: independently if I run lilypond or not
<norsetto> ThibG: the crash on restart I mean
<ThibG> you press start, it works fine, and when you press start again ( without closing scolily ), it crash?
<norsetto> ThibG: yes
<ThibG> I can't reproduce it
<ThibG> is there any output?
<norsetto> ThibG: there are some license headers missing
<norsetto> ThibG: no, no output
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> in which files?
<unimatrix9> if i may ask : is there an support channel on irc for translators of ubuntu packages ?
<norsetto> ThibG: lilypond-internal.cpp, midi-plugin.cpp, abc-plugin.cpp
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> is it a blocker for a debian package?
<norsetto> ThibG: yes
<ThibG> ( all the work is mine, except record.h and record.cpp, which are under GPL too )
<ThibG> ok
<norsetto> ThibG: and it would be better if you copyright them all (none of them are copyrighted)
<norsetto> ThibG: concerning lilypond, if you don't want to have it recommended, I think you could add it as suggested
<ThibG> Recommends: lilypond
<ThibG> It's already recommended
<norsetto> ThibG: perhaps, I'm looking at the old one
<ThibG> another thing... could you try scolily under gdb? ( with the symbols )
<norsetto> ThibG: did you write a bug report too about packaging scolily?
<ThibG> norsetto, in debian, yes ( and RFS too, but it seems it didn't work :P )
<norsetto> ThibG: ok, is it compiled with debug support already?
<ThibG> norsetto, I think, and stripped when installed
<norsetto> ThibG: yes, no debugging symbols found
<norsetto> ThibG: little error in man page: you say two dashes options but the options are all one dash
<jussi01> Hmmm, can someone point me the the really good cdbs guide thats out there? I seem to have lost the link...
<ThibG> norsetto, ok
<norsetto> ThibG: you also say "For a complete description, see the Info files." but there are no Info files
<norsetto> jussi01: last I check the duckcorp site was down (sponsor closed the tap)
<jussi01> norsetto: thats sad... does anyone have a copy saved somewhere?
<norsetto> jussi01: hey, just checked and its back :-)
<jussi01> oh, and whats the correct syntax for closing a lp bug in changelog?
<norsetto> jussi01: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<norsetto> jussi01: LP: #xxxxx
<jussi01> norsetto: brilliant, thanks a lot
<norsetto> jussi01: np
<ThibG> ok, that's done norsetto
<ThibG> I'll soon upload a new package
<norsetto> ThibG: what do you use for the copyright symbol? In the terminal its reported as  
<ThibG> 
<ThibG> In wich file is it?
<alex-weej> can a motu pick this patch up for music-applet please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/music-applet/+bug/93284
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93284 in music-applet "music-applet fails on second login session" [Undecided,New] 
<norsetto> ThibG: its reported by scolily -h and scolily -v
<ThibG> strange, it displays well with me
<norsetto> ThibG: I've got no locale or anything
<norsetto> ThibG: gnome-terminal
<ThibG> LANG=IT scolily -h gives me a readable 
<norsetto> ThibG: if I set UTF-8 is displayed correctly
<ThibG> ok
<norsetto> ThibG: yeah, perhaps its better to just use plain ascii (c) or (C) (its really nittypicking :-))
<ThibG> I dunno... when you do "ls --version" for instance, the "  " displays correctly
<norsetto> ThibG: for me its an ascii (C) that too. ok, gotta go now, Il send you an italian translation tonight
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> thanks a lot!
<norsetto> ThibG: de rien, a+! :-)
<ThibG> bye norsetto
<jussi01> Hmmm, how do I know which section to put something into? (http://genpo.sourceforge.net/)
<jussi01> btw, has anyone seen persia recently?
<Riddell> norsetto: pong
<Riddell> norsetto: there's no way to check the reason for a New rejection, they should have e-mailed you and CC'ed ubuntu-archive mailing list
<norsetto> Riddell: hi, sorry, was having dinner :-)
<norsetto> Riddell: yes, I found it in the ubuntu-archive mailing list indeed, and emailed you about it
<norsetto> Riddell: its just a mistake in the reference I used apparently
<Riddell> norsetto: in debian/copyright there's a sentence which finishes "either version 2 of the License."
<Riddell> it's an incomplete sentence, either needs to have an "or"
<sn9> "either version of the license"
<sn9> unless there were two version 2's
<broonie> It probably means to have the standard "or, at your option, any later version" boilerplate.
<sn9> somehow, that's not there, apparently
<coNP> re
<coNP> I guess bmm left.
* coNP reviews boswars anyway :)
<ThibG> re coNP
* coNP will review scolily as well :)
<norsetto> Riddell: yes, its a mistake in the debian reference, never mind, in the light of the fact that the application is not supported anymore upstream, do you think is worth correcting that?
<Riddell> norsetto: depends if the application is useful
<norsetto> Riddell: as it is now, I doubt: its a cd builder for a custom distribution based in ubuntu, and right now only supports feisty
<Riddell> doesn't sound worth it then
<norsetto> Riddell: ok, lets nuke it then
<arpu> info: uvcvideo for isight cam http://www.i-nz.net/files/projects/linux-kernel/isight/ does not work with new kernel   2.6.22-10-generic
<norsetto> highvoltage: hi jonathan, do you remember we owe an email to TheMuso?
<highvoltage> norsetto: I talked to him on IRC, and thought that it was sufficient
<highvoltage> norsetto: I thought we owed an e-mail to the mentoree (if that's even a word)
<norsetto> highvoltage: pupil :-)
<highvoltage> ah :)
* coNP advocates boswars.
<coNP> (again :))
<jussi01> Hmmm, is a copyright file that is gpl3 any different to a gpl 2 one?
<coNP> I guess you can write GNU GPL version 3 (or any later)
<jussi01> yeah, I figured that :) just checking there wasnt some unforseen thing jumping up at me...
<coNP> The GPL-3 daemon has you
<coNP> All your base belong to GPL-3
<coNP> What do you think of?
<jussi01> hehe, nothing, just checking
<superm1> any revu admins, it appears as though i still can't log into revu to do revus for anyone
<superm1> with either of my addresses listed on LP
<arpu> anybody an idea with uvcvideo and  2.6.22-10-generic ?
<ThibG> hm... When gutsy will be "frozen"?
<ThibG> (refusing minor bugfixes)
<Amaranth> the 20th, i guess
<Amaranth> that's beta freeze
<ThibG> ok
<ThibG> that lets a little time to make a bugfix release of scolily :)
<coNP> why do you need that?
<coNP> haven't you fixed everythin
<coNP> I was to review it, but then I'll wait :D
<ThibG> There is a lot of minor bugs I haven't noticed in scolily
<ThibG> (in upstreama)
<ThibG> upstream*
<coNP> BTW minor & major bugfixes are not affected by a freeze
<ThibG> so, that'll be a new upstream version
<ThibG> the new upstream version will be in ~2 weeks I think
<ThibG> (the debian/ dir will be mainly the same)
<coNP> A new upstream might not be allowed
<ThibG> I'll do my best to release it quickly then
<jussi01> does qt3 libs == libqt3-mt-dev ??
<Lamego> for development yes
<jussi01> thanks
<ScottK> ThibG: If you are the upstream, just add patches for an Ubuntu revision for Gutsy (no new upstream), then release the new upstream when you are ready and use that in Gutsy +1.  No time pressure then.
<ThibG> ok ScottK
<coNP> ThibG: should I review scolily then?
<ThibG> coNP, yes, please
<coNP> Okay
<norsetto> ThibG: translation on its way .....
<ThibG> norsetto, thanks :)
<ThibG> Oh, there is a new string : "Starting ALSA handler..."
<jussi01> Hei, can I use cdbs for a package that only requires you to run a build.sh file to install?'
<Lamego> jussi01, yes you can
* jussi01 waits for hints...
<Lamego> jussi01, dh_make -c gpl -b
<Lamego> vi debian/rules
<Lamego> remove the automake default include
<Lamego> add a new rule, <tab>install/packagename::
<Lamego> ops, without the tab
<Lamego> then:<tab>./build.sh
<Lamego> I assume build.sh will need some parameter, to install it over debian/tmp or debian/package
* coNP we would consider emacs users as well
<jussi01> ok, im trying that now... :)
<jussi01> so the rules file is as simple as:
<jussi01> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<jussi01> 
<jussi01> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<jussi01> install/genpo	./build.sh
<jussi01> with the missing tab...
<jussi01> grr
<xtknight> what's the most reliable way to tell if a package is in main or universe?
<jussi01> xtknight: which package?
<xtknight> apt-cache policy show says '        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages'.  so probably universe right?  But ubotu says (main).  Bug 134949
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134949 in lirc "IDs for MCEUSB2 distributed by HP" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134949
<jussi01> !inf waon
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about inf waon - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jussi01> !info waon
<ubotu> Package waon does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<jussi01> !info waon gutsy
<ubotu> waon: A Wave-to-Notes transcriber. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 85 kB, installed size 240 kB
<xtknight> well in #ubuntu-bugs.  it indicates this is in Main "New bug: #134949 in lirc (main) "IDs for MCEUSB2 distributed by HP" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134949"
<jussi01> there, use the bot
<xtknight> !info lirc gutsy
<ubotu> lirc: Linux Infra-red Remote Control support. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.8.2-0ubuntu4 (gutsy), package size 349 kB, installed size 1688 kB
<xtknight> ahh
<xtknight> whoops.  already subscribed main i guess it's too late to remove them from subscriptions
* coNP thinks this as well.
<Lamego> jussi01, sorry went away
<Lamego> have you managed it ?
<norsetto> ThibG: is the new string in the tarball you will package for ubuntu?
<ThibG> norsetto, no
<ThibG> it'll be in the next release
<norsetto> ThibG: ok, then we are fine, once you think the .pot is ready let me know and I will add it to my .po
<ThibG> that will probably not be in gutsy
* ThibG is going to learn using dpatch
* coNP votes for cdbs
<coNP> Just to annoy some people here :)
<ThibG> In fact, I have two main patches to do, to avoid crashes or major display error
<norsetto> ThibG: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<ThibG> thanks norsetto
<cfalco> Hello!
<norsetto> ThibG: for dpatch use man dpatch if you need something or just ask here; its pretty easy anyhow
<norsetto> NO! My nemesis!!
<coNP> NO! Use CDBS!
<xtknight> !info gnome-control-center gutsy
<ubotu> gnome-control-center: utilities to configure the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.19.90-0ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 656 kB, installed size 1640 kB
<cfalco> ?
<sn9> jussi01: waon does not work
<ImNOTcesarefalco> there, this should make it clear
<ThibG> coNP, yes, I'll most likely use cdbs
<cfalco> Did I hurt anyone? :$
<ImNOTcesarefalco> YES, I've been pestered for days, you did say this, you did send that, well, I didn't
<coNP> !ask | cfalco
<ubotu> cfalco: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
* coNP is relieved norsetto has left the channel ;D
<cfalco> Well, I only need to upload a package to REVU, but after server crash
<cfalco> I can't login anymore
<coNP> cfalco: try to upload again. Or you cannot even upload any more. After an upload password recovery should work
<cfalco> I didn't mean to hurt anyone
* coNP neither :)
<ImNOTcesarefalco> cfalco: well, change your name then, and I may forgive you .....
<cfalco> :)
<ThibG> coNP, cdbs patches are just diffs put to debian/patches?
<cfalco> I tried several times, but they wouldn't allow me
<cfalco> :)
<superm1> coNP, do we have to announce a NEW package to motu mailing list even if it was packaged ourselves (and hence not on REVU)?
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/watchdog/news/20070817T111705Z.html
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: you still need a +1 from another MOTU
<Kmos> if someone wants to sync it from debian, new version with bug fixes
<superm1> ImNOTcesarefalco, oh really.  didn't realize that :)
<coNP> ThibG: cdbs-edit-patch is the goodness of it IMHO. You can plainly edit sources / apply patch.
<coNP> ImNOTcesarefalco: you mean for new packages prepared by a MOTU?
<ThibG> coNP, ok, good :)
<ThibG> I'll make cdbs patches
<ImNOTcesarefalco> coNP: as far as I know (which is not much, admittedly), yes
<superm1> ScottK, you here?  Can you comment to that?
<ThibG> I'm tied... Time to sleep
<ImNOTcesarefalco> even ScottK and dholbach have a package on review on REVU ;-)
<ThibG> Bye, and thanks to all
<jussi01> sn9: how so?
<coNP> bye ThibG
<coNP> ImNOTcesarefalco: I guess they only wanted to recover their REVU account
<jussi01> sn9: I need to run, but could you send me an email/file a bug report? (jussi01 at gmail dot com) thanks
<ImNOTcesarefalco> coNP: devs did not need that, its only non devs that needed it
<coNP> MOTUs are devs
<coNP> and core-devs are devs
<coNP> I am not sure which dev you mean here
<ImNOTcesarefalco> coNP: both, in any case ask a MOTU, I'm not betting on this
<superm1> ImNOTcesarefalco, both coNP and i are MOTU :)
<coNP> Yeah. That is the point.
* coNP suggests that ImNOTcesarefalco changes his nick to ImNOTaMOTU
<coNP> :D
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: yeah, I meant a real one :-P
<superm1> i dont see anywhere on the MOTU wiki pages alluding to a MOTU needing to submit his or her packages to revu as well.
<superm1> ImNOTcesarefalco, where did you hear this?
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: I remember reading it, but where, I don't remember
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: I'm not kidding btw, I'm serious, can very well be wrong though, so just do as you would
<superm1> bryce, are you here?
<coNP> superm1: maybe we should organize some MOTU newbie conference on IRC :)
<superm1> haha
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: if you think about it, it makes sense: 2 MOTU for a non-motu, and 1 MOTU for 1 MOTU
<superm1> perhaps
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: I mean, if I were a MOTU, I would appreciate in any case somebody looking over my shoulder
<coNP> Wait. In a half year it will be 2 MOTU for a non-MOTU, 1 MOTU for a MOTU and norsetto for me and superm1
<ImNOTcesarefalco> coNP: who?
<coNP> Sorry. I am really tired.
<Lamego> someone else should review "our" work, regardless of our status or experience, IMHO
* coNP absolutly agrees
<coNP> absolutely even
<ImNOTcesarefalco> Lamego: indeed
<Lamego> because, we are humans ;)
<superm1> okay coNP you want to give my NEW package a quick once over then (but i still get to upload it :))?
* coNP reviews the two packages he promised to review first
<ImNOTcesarefalco> Lamego: we might be animals, but we are just humans.....
<Lamego> lol
<cfalco> package upload is in still in progress
<cfalco> I have limited upload bandwidth
<cfalco> may I ask you here for a review, when it finishes?
<ImNOTcesarefalco> coNP: superm1: would actually make sense to record your experience as new MOTUs? To help future MOTU to get their bearing faster?
<superm1> ImNOTcesarefalco, i can see that as being useful, but it will vary from person to person and their past experience before becoming MOTU.
<coNP> Yes. It is YOUR way :)
<xtknight> for Bug 134949 when Mario says "submit upstream" he means lirc sourceforge right?  what about debian or we dont worry about them?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134949 in lirc "IDs for MCEUSB2 distributed by HP" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134949
<ImNOTcesarefalco> superm1: of course, the same for contributors. But, you had to ask few things, no? How to become a REVU reviewer, how to actually review, what tools are available and so on. I'm thinking about just a wiki page and just for NewMOTUs
<superm1> xtknight, we diverted from debian
<superm1> xtknight, their lirc packaging team is revamping the package, so in the meanwhile we are a bit ahead of them version wise
<xtknight> okay, so in other words, i should submit this bug to the lirc sourceforge?
<superm1> xtknight, correct
<xtknight> thanks
<superm1> chris is pretty good about commiting things quickly
<superm1> even better, if once its in, leave the cvs revno in the bug, and it'll save me a moment having to determine when it gets put in :)
<xtknight> ah ok
<xtknight> never done cvs before so it may be awhile
<superm1> when you make the bug upstream, chris will let you know when its committed
<xtknight> do i email the lirc people?  how does it get into cvs?
<superm1> you'll make the bug on the SF page.  and you probably won't need to touch cvs yourself.  if you can't determine the revno of the commit, just let me know it happened in the ubuntu bug and i'll find it
<xtknight> k
<superm1> thx xtknight
<xtknight> brb
<xtknight> ya should be later tonight hopefully
<superm1> coNP, here it is when you get a moment http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=93
<superm1> i still can't revu other packages though, i thought Hobbsee changed me to a revu'er.  I'll have to check with her later
<coNP> superm1: you can also contact siretart or sistpoty to make you a REVU admin IIRC
<cfalco> coNP, I finally manage to upload the package (sdlmame), recover still doesn't work anyway
<ImNOTcesarefalco> ImNOTcesarefalco: you know, you are a pretty cool guy?
<ScottK> For people who are MOTU/core-dev, they still need a second dev to ack the new package.
<norsetto> oh well, it doesn't work
<Skiessi> please someone get LMMS 0.3.0 to Universe :I Ubuntu is missing good music tools
<jussi01> Skiessi: really?? there are some pretty nice ones out there
<Skiessi> 0.3.0 just might be better than the current 0.2.1 in the repository
<jussi01> !info lmms gutsy
<ubotu> lmms: Linux Multimedia Studio. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1-1.1 (gutsy), package size 1543 kB, installed size 3784 kB
<jussi01> sn9: im here now, what was the issue with waon?
<sn9> it just does not accomplish its purrpose
<jussi01> sn9: why do you say that?
<sn9> have you tried it?
<sn9> if you try it, you'll see
<jussi01> sn9: please explain exactly what you are talking about. are you using gwaon or waon?
<Lamego> anyone experienced with apt pinning ?
<sn9> waon
<norsetto> Lamego: a little bit
<sn9> did not see gwaon
<pygi> Lamego, http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
<Lamego> pygi, I already read that, it doesn't help with my problem
<Lamego> I have an APT:DefaultRelease set
<Lamego> which I need
<jussi01> sn9: and you have read the man pages?
<sn9> yes. very limited
<Lamego> and I want to set pin on a package, so that it can be installed from an "unstable" APT
<sn9> the requirement of a lack of polyphony is an understatement
<sn9> if there is the slightest noise, it throws everything off
<jussi01> sn9: I admit it is a basic program, however, I am only the packager, so for feature requests etc please contact the writer
<sn9> oh, i thought you wanted to use it for something
<cfalco> ok! Thanks God my package is now uploaded:
<cfalco> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=94
<cfalco> anyone willing to review it, please? ;)
<cfalco> .
<bryce> superm1: yeah in and out
<superm1> bryce, just wanted to see if anything more came out of discussion for openchrome.  I wasn't sure who was going to author the MIR for it
<bryce> ah, yeah go ahead - you could use my MIR for the -psb driver as a template to start from
<bryce> if you draft it, I can give it a review and add it to the MIR queue
<xtknight> superm1, ok the lirc usbid issue is now bug sf #1782138 and is linked to LP Bug 134949.  i guess all that is needed now is to wait until it is committed by cvs by the devs?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134949 in lirc "IDs for MCEUSB2 distributed by HP" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134949
<superm1> bryce, okay i'll see if i can steal a few moments in the middle of week to write it
<superm1> great xtknight thanks :)
<xtknight> superm1, thx for your help. i  just hope the lirc people get to it by time of Gutsy release
<superm1> xtknight, i've been doing the lirc uploads lately, and matching them up on the kernel patches
<superm1> so i'll likely do it :)
<xtknight> ah cool
<xtknight> be back in a while
<coNP> What does lintian "postinst-has-useless-call-to-ldconfig" mean?
<superm1> coNP, does it make a call explicitly?
<coNP> I mean I understand it invokes ldconfig, but since libs are deployed it might be needed. Do I misunderstand the situation?
<superm1> coNP, is this a lib* package?
<coNP> no
<coNP> it is a package that also installs some libs
<superm1> well i've been taught that even if you install some libs, you should have a sep binary package for them
<coNP> superm1: scolily (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=92) if you are interested
<coNP> only if something else is likely to use the libs IIRC
<superm1> coNP, i'm building i'll take a look as soon as it finishes
<coNP> superm1: thanks.
<cfalco> Is there a MOTU online?
<norsetto> coNP: I had that once too, it was caused by debhelper
<superm1> coNP, Hm.  This appears to be because the libraries aren't installed into /usr/lib, but rather /usr/lib/scolily
<coNP> norsetto: Yes, I think you can remove simply the .postinst and .postrm scripts
<norsetto> coNP: IIRC it was caused by dh_makeshlibs
<coNP> norsetto: sure
<norsetto> coNP: let me check
<coNP> superm1: therefore I doubt if they are still needed :)
<coNP> cfalco: noone is of course.
<superm1> since it's cdbs, you'll have to override the behavior of using dh_makeshlibs
<norsetto> coNP: OK, got it, it was necessary to add a -n to that call
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<cfalco> ok, lintian says "changelog-should-mention-nmu"
<cfalco> and "source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number"
<coNP> cfalco: don't care of this
<coNP> hey TheMuso
<cfalco> ok!
<superm1> hi TheMuso
<coNP> Is it so late :)
<cfalco> thanks
<norsetto> coNP: which meant to not modify the scripts adding the useless call
<coNP> norsetto: yes, but as superm1 also said, cdbs is used here
<superm1> coNP, since i can't comment on the revu's still, i see one other issue:
<superm1> not all the docs are installed
<norsetto> coNP: ok, then you need to tell CDBS to add that option to dh_makeshlibs
<coNP> superm1: what do you mean by that?
<TheMuso> superm1: Did you hear that mythbuntu metapackages automatically get an UVF exception?
<superm1> coNP, there is an ABOUT-NLS and an AUTHORS doc shipped
<superm1> TheMuso, yes
<superm1> TheMuso, but this is a NEW package
<superm1> which i'll need one more MOTU to look over
<coNP> I guess neither is needed. You should correct me :)
<coNP> ABOUT-NLS is totally irrelevant IMHO
<TheMuso> superm1: I know, I was just wondering if you knew. Nothing about what you are looking at here.
<superm1> oh okay TheMuso
<superm1> thanks :)
<TheMuso> np
<superm1> yea that meeting was a wee bit early for me to make it to.  i saw the minutes that you posted to the motu mailing list too
<TheMuso> cool
<superm1> coNP, ah your right as i look a little closer at their contents
* coNP would advocate scolily. But it would be nice to fix this dh_makeshlibs call before it gets uploaded
<cfalco> it's getting late, I'm going to bed shortly
<cfalco> thanks for your help! :)
<superm1> beyond that, i don't see any other problems with it myself
<coNP> superm1: which package?
<norsetto> coNP: here: DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS
<superm1> coNP, scolily
<coNP> norsetto: you mean a line like DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS = "-n"
* coNP is still not sure if they are not needed
<norsetto> coNP: yep (dunno about the "")
<cbx33> anyone seen imbrandon
<cbx33> ping highvoltage
<cbx33> ping doko
<coNP> superm1: then we can advocate and upload it.
<superm1> coNP, i can't comment on revu yet, but my comment will be there in spirit then :)
<coNP> superm1: so what do you think. Does this issue needs to be solved?
<coNP> I mean this ldconfig-issue
<cbx33> ping TheMuso
<superm1> coNP, i would say as soon as that is fixed its good to upload, but it should be fixed now rather than later
* coNP agrees
<TheMuso> cbx33: Hey there.
<cbx33> howz it going dude
<cbx33> just thought I'd say hi
<cbx33> havn't seen you in a while
<TheMuso> Very well thanks. Yourself?
<TheMuso> Well I've been around here. :)
<superm1> cbx33, i haven't seen imbrandon in ages
<cbx33> heeh
* coNP neither.
<cbx33> TheMuso, yeh I've been good
<cbx33> superm1, yeh i know
<coNP> Only these newbies. superm1, norsetto, coNP everywhere...
<cbx33> been looking for him for a while
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> cbx33, me too
<cbx33> heheh
<superm1> he was hosting www.mythbuntu.org, until things went crazy.  he was supposed to fix things but never returned calls, emails, or pms
<superm1> so we ended up having to find somewhere else to host
<superm1> and rebuild the site from scratch
<cbx33> ouch
<coNP> that is bad
<cbx33> superm1, you involved with mythbuntu?
<superm1> cbx33, leading it :)
<cbx33> I'm looking for someone to offer some hosting
<cbx33> superm1, awesome - I'm currently installing linuxmce on a box
<cbx33> got any argument for using mythbuntu?
<cbx33> instead
<doko> cbx33: just write, don't ping
<superm1> cbx33, if we had our own hosting, i'd offer it but, a third party came in and offered to host us
<cbx33> doko, was going to ask who I'd contact about the possibiliy of canonical sponsoring some hosting
<cbx33> for python training lessons
<cbx33> it'd be a live ogg cast
<superm1> cbx33, honestly havent given linuxmce a shot, the reviews i've read for it, say that you need to have the hardware he had, and even when you do, things dont necessarily go as smoothly
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I wrote one such review
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I'm trying it again
<superm1> for mythbuntu, i'm not going to push it until we're ready to at least say its beta :)
<superm1> because there are a few outstanding items that are being sorted out
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> doko, I think i have pretty much everything figured out, I'd be looking for someone to host an Ictcast server for me for a few hours a week
<cbx33> Icecast
<cbx33> hey highvolt1ge
<doko> cbx33: I don't think so, but you may want to ask dholbach or jono
<superm1> cbx33, you might query hosting on the loco team servers
<superm1> jono can point you at who to talk to about it
<cbx33> ahhh yes
<cbx33> never thought of jono
<superm1> i dont recall the contact off hand
<cbx33> I'll mail jono
<cbx33> thanks doko
<cbx33> sorry to have bothered you
<coNP> bigon: you submitted a new empathy package
<coNP> bigon: you also added some telepathy-<libs>. Are the latter all needed to build the former?
<norsetto> coNP: the correct syntax is DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_scolily := -n
<norsetto> coNP: just tested by the way
<coNP> norsetto: thanks. Check out http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=92
<bigon> coNP: well tp-mission-control is needed to build the package. AFAIK the last version of tp-salut is needed too
<coNP> Are these libs new?
<coNP> Or updates
<norsetto> coNP: yeah, you need to add the _scolily at the end (its package specific)
<coNP> Okay, but there is only one package
<norsetto> coNP: yes, but I think just without adding it it won't work (with it it works), we can test or just look at the mk file to check
<coNP> norsetto: /me pbuilded it this way
<norsetto> coNP: ok, good to know then
* coNP thinks all these options can be used with and without specifying a binary package
<norsetto> coNP: but then you should tell him to delete the _scolily at the end of the other option, to be consistent :-)
<coNP> norsetto: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=92
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-18
<RAOF> Mmm, loadav 31.39
<RAOF> Yay C++
<TomJaeger> It's very frustrating.  You spend many hours trying to get the packaging right and nobody's willing to spend the five or ten minutes that it would take to say, 'yeah, this is okay'
<RAOF> TomJaeger: That's what I'm doing now.
<TomJaeger> wow, cool
<RAOF> There are a couple of obvious and easily fixable problems, and your code is currently bringing my buildbox to its knees.
<TomJaeger> yeah, boost::serialization makes heavy use of templates
<RAOF> Yay turing-complete type system.
 * slangasek ugh, boost
<RAOF> TomJaeger: So, the big complaint is that your dependencies are/will be broken.
<k0p> hi all
<RAOF> TomJaeger: {shlibs:Depends} is your friend.
<k0p> I have my package some weeks in queue. :( Why the binary files doesnt appear on archive?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> k0p: mine took 4 or 5 days to build, _after_ it was accepted by the archive admins
<TomJaeger> okay, I'll add {shlibs:Depends}
<Kopfgeldjaeger> k0p: But I remember yours was archived some hours before mine
<k0p> Kopfgeldjaeger, yeap
<k0p> :S
<Kopfgeldjaeger> :)
<k0p> is it normal?
<k0p> I think no..
<k0p> :/
<TomJaeger> RAOF, do I need anything else then, or is just {shlibs:Depends} enough?
<RAOF> TomJaeger: I don't think you need anything but ${shlibs:Depends} in your Depends: line, no.
<RAOF> You don't have any runtime dependencies that aren't linked in?
<TomJaeger> cool, thanks.
<TomJaeger> nope
<RAOF> I've added a comment, FWIW.  The shlibs thing is the big winner, but there's another nitpick or two there as well.
<TomJaeger> Ah, I see there's a review now. Thanks a lot.
<TomJaeger> RAOF, point 2, this is just the sourceforge mirror that debian is using acting up.
<RAOF> Oh, right.  Urgh.
<k0p> Kopfgeldjaeger, why my package doesnt built after your? :/
<Kopfgeldjaeger> k0p: dunno :( was it acepted by the archive admins?
<k0p> Kopfgeldjaeger, I think yes. How I should know?
<k0p> I know that it appear on a list
<Kopfgeldjaeger> k0p: DktrKranz also archived yours, didn't he? The next day he told me that mine was accepted by the admins
<k0p> hmm
<k0p> he doens't tell me anything. But another friend
<k0p> send me a email
<k0p> and it say that it was accepted
<k0p> but it appears only the sources
<TomJaeger> hmm, dput says 'Already uploaded to revu.ubuntuwire.com'. Should I bump the version number to -0ubuntu2?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> TomJaeger: no
<Kopfgeldjaeger> rm *.upload
<RAOF> TomJaeger: No; just add -f to the dput line.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> or that
<k0p> Kopfgeldjaeger, I need to talk DktrKranz..
<TomJaeger> thanks, great that worked.
<k0p> he isn't there.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yep
<Kopfgeldjaeger> anyway. good luck and good night
<k0p> good night.
<k0p> thanks anyway
<RAOF> Gah.  Would it be too much to ask for the clean target to _actually_ clean the source tree?
<TomJaeger> RAOF, Thanks again, I've made the necessary changes and added a comment to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=easystroke
<TomJaeger> That's not my package you were just talking about, is it?
<TomJaeger> How do you clean a debian package anyway?  Is 'fakeroot debian/rules clean' the way to go?
<RAOF> TomJaeger: No, I was talking about miro, and the failure of "setup.py clean" to actually clean the tree.
<owen1_> here is the error i get when running prevu: dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/newsbeuter/usr/bin/newsbeuter shouldn't be linked with libgssapi_krb5.so.2 (it uses none of its symbols).
<owen1_> any prevu experts?
<RAOF> That's a warning that a large fraction of the archive will exhibit.  Don't feel to bad about it :)
<owen1_> RAOF: ok. is there any solution?
<RAOF> Ignore it.
<RAOF> owen1_: Unless you'd like to fix it, which is generally non-trivial.
<owen1_> RAOF: so my best option is to wait for interpid?
<NCommander> Is there a packaged x86_64 -> i686 cross-compiler in the archive?
<RAOF> It won't be fixed in intrepid, likely.
<RAOF> NCommander: Is -m32 insufficient?
<RAOF> owen1_: Just ignore that warning; it doesn't harm anything.
<NCommander> yeah, I'm compiling a kernel, and it spat out a invalid mach when I tried that
<RAOF> Oh.  Yeah, kernels are likely special.
<NCommander> I just wanted to know if there was a shortcut before I started building with cross-tool
<owen1_> RAOF: at the end of i got an error messege:make: libmrss-depends: Command not found   http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/38354/
<RAOF> owen1_: That suggests a missing build-depend.
<StevenK> NCommander: My machine can't build kernels for i686 on x86_64
<owen1_> RAOF: can i solve this?
<slangasek> StevenK: because your machine doesn't support 32-bit code?
<RAOF> owen1_: Apparently by adding a build-depend on libmrss0-dev.  If that doesn't fix it, then you'd have to first backport that library.
<owen1_> RAOF: i don't understand 'adding a build-depend on libmrss0-dev'..can u guide me?
<StevenK> slangasek: It ought to. It builds normal things, it just refuses to build kernel modules.
<NCommander> StevenK, yeah, hence the need for a cross-compiler ;-)
<RAOF> owen1_: I don't have time, sorry.  Basically, you'll have to do some packaging work, for which the packaging guide would be useful.
<owen1_> RAOF: ok. any chance that it will be fixed someday soon?
<RAOF> owen1_: Probably not; it's not broken in intrepid.
<owen1_> RAOF: but u said that waiting for interpid will not help.
<RAOF> owen1_: For the warnings you printed, they'll likely still be in Intrepid.
<RAOF> owen1_: For the _error_ in the pastebin, that doesn't happen in Intrepid.
<owen1_> RAOF: great. so i'll wait for interpid.
<RAOF> Hm.  Why aren't I allowed to post to ubuntu-devel@l.u.c?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: something went bang?
<RAOF> Presumably.  Maybe I wasn't positng from raof@ubuntu.com?
<ajmitch> or maybe you've just been kicked out :)
<Hobbsee> whoever next goes thru the moderation queue will need a *very* stiff drink.
<RAOF> With what porpoise?
<Hobbsee> huh?
 * Hobbsee suspects no one has been going thru it, without a working listadmin
<nxvl> emgent: around?
<emgent> yeah now i'm back
<bddebian> Anyone have a preferred log file analyzer?
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: I'm a big fan of grep.
<bddebian> Heh :)
<nxvl> i just wish i can use grep on the real life some day
<nxvl> :D
<RAOF> Wow, the hppa buildd is pretty quick at picking up a package and FTBFSing it.
<NCommander> RAOF, hppa in general is having issues ATM
 * NCommander would like to see Ubuntu kfreebsd-amd64
<RAOF> Heh
<NCommander> I actually have that dual booting with my Ubuntu installation ;-)
<NCommander> It used to through people through a loop when they tried to grab packages from a repo I had up
<nxvl> is anyone having problems with some builds in i386 because of soyus?
<Hobbsee> nxvl: you fail at asking descriptive questions.
<Hobbsee> what are you actually asking?
<nxvl> Hobbsee: oh right you are here
<RAOF> Oh, curses.  Miro was, among other things, a merge so I should've passed -v through.  Gah.
<Hobbsee> nxvl: i'm almost always here.  it's just a question of if i'm at my keyboard or not
 * nxvl dances while searchs the log
<nxvl> Hobbsee: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16865545/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.lmms_0.3.2-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nxvl> Hobbsee: wine is failing to install
<nxvl> Hobbsee: here is the retry: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16877205/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.lmms_0.3.2-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nxvl> after trying to fix wine
<StevenK> update-binfmts: warning: Couldn't load the binfmt_misc module.
<StevenK> No fair failing to install if you can't load a module.
<StevenK> nxvl: That's the same error.
<Hobbsee> nxvl: ask lamont about that.
<nxvl> StevenK: yep
<Hobbsee> invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/procps not found. doesn't look good either
<Hobbsee> as that's in -minimal
<nxvl> Hobbsee: and wine is now depending on procps
<nxvl> so it must be installed
<Hobbsee> everything in ubuntu-minimal must be installed regardless.
<StevenK> nxvl: That is a pointless depends.
<StevenK> nxvl: procps is Priority: required
<StevenK> Read Debian Policy for what required means
<nxvl> yes, i just added it to wine depend after talking to slangasek
<Hobbsee> oddly enough, though, most other things seem to have built.
<nxvl> he said it may be not installed
<Hobbsee> twitch
<nxvl> StevenK: yes i know that, but slangasek told me that better to add it
<nxvl> StevenK: slangasek "required" != "essential", fwiw
<nxvl> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/16/%23ubuntu-motu.html
<nxvl> around 7:00
<StevenK> nxvl: You don't need to lecture me about the Priority field.
 * ScottK steps away from nxvl.
<nxvl> StevenK: yeah, i was just giving you more information about what slangasek told me, and the why of the change
<StevenK> nxvl: Sure, but you don't need to beat me with slangasek as a teaching tool.
<nxvl> StevenK: i was just pasting what slangasek told me
<nxvl> StevenK: oh! that wasn't the intention
<nxvl> StevenK: sorry if you feel that way
<nxvl> StevenK: i was just trying to give more context
<nxvl> sorry about that
<StevenK> nxvl: Anyway, I suspect adding procps to the Depends wasn't going to fix it.
<nxvl> StevenK: yes, now i know that, i just think it could since the log also says is not finding that init script
<nxvl> i will send lamont and e-mail
 * Hobbsee adds requiring dpkg as a build dependancy to some packages, just in case.
<StevenK> Argh
 * Hobbsee grins, ducks, and runs away
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I recall someone adding build-essential to the Build-Depends of a package I was asked to sponsor.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ouch.
<nxvl> btw
<StevenK> (Years ago, for Debian)
<nxvl> what time is it now @ australia?
<Hobbsee> do they still live?
<StevenK> nxvl: 12:15pm
<Hobbsee> Uptime: 2 hours and 44 minutes
<nxvl> StevenK: still sunday?
<Hobbsee> hmm.  not that.
<StevenK> nxvl: Monday
<Hobbsee> nxvl: no, monday
<StevenK> nxvl: TZ=Australia/Sydney date
<ajmitch> almost beer o'clock
<StevenK> ajmitch: And since when are you Australian? :-P
 * ajmitch would never make such a claim
<StevenK> Heh
<nxvl> StevenK: you can use any escuse to have a beer
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> excuse*
<StevenK> I'm Australian, I don't need an excuse.
<nxvl> in peru you didn't need one, but it's funny to have one
<nxvl> :D
<RAOF> Streuth, it's midday!  Time for a stubby.
<StevenK> RAOF: Just one?
<RAOF> Maybe a six pack
<StevenK> That will make the marking quicker
<RAOF> I get me some markin' to do tomorrow.  And Wednesday.
<ma10> does anybody have debuild-pbuilder working in intrepid? I keep getting sudo -E: command not found...
<RAOF> Man, it's awesome having (metaciy dev)+ subscribed to metacity bugs on launchpad.
<RAOF> (Bug #258977, for those who like context)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258977 in metacity "Vertical maximisation causes windows to swap heads" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258977
<slangasek> StevenK: well, you know, build-depending on procps for those occasions when you're trying to build a package in the middle of a dist-upgrade ;P
<slangasek> StevenK: one can certainly create a chroot without ubuntu-minimal; and I believe the buildd chroots are such
<saivann> Can a member of the MOTU-SRU team take a look at bug 232402 ? The final patch is now available since more than one month and has Alexander Sack blessing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 232402 in chmsee "xulrunner 1.9 support for chmsee 1.0.0" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232402
<saivann> See comment #15
<nxvl> slangasek: :P
<slangasek> nxvl: I maintain that I'm right, because in spite of the package prio I don't see anything that causes dpkg to depend on procps
<nxvl> slangasek: yes, also i don't see any problem on build-depending on it
<tuxmaniac> moring gang
<tuxmaniac> morning
<nxvl> packages.ubuntu.com is down
<Hew> Can someone from ubuntu-backports-testers take a look at bug 248055?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248055 in gtk-gnutella "gtk-gnutella cannot connect to newer network - ancient version detected" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248055
<RAOF> nxvl: Not down, just slow.
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: good morning
<tuxmaniac> dholbach: guten morgen
<dholbach> hi nxvl, hi tuxmaniac
<\sh> moins dholbach..so early? :)
<dholbach> \sh: I was up at 6:50 already :)
<stefanlsd> hihi
<\sh> dholbach: that was the time when I reached my office ;-)
<dholbach> \sh: I just have to walk 5 meters to my office :)
 * \sh has the wrong job...or I just have to ask to do my work from my homeoffice ;)
<StevenK> dholbach: Sounds like me :-)
<dholbach> it has advantages and disadvantages
<\sh> the advantage: you can have coffee for free
<\sh> the disadvantage: you can sleep sometimes longer and work sometimes longer in the evening ;)
<RoAkSoAx> disadvantage: you don't get to talk to people, joke with someone.. or have fun at all :P
<nxvl> dholbach: walk 5 meters or just bring the laptop to bed :P
<nxvl> dholbach: Bug 258808 fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258808 in pbuilder "[intrepid] pbuilder builds a package twice by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258808
<dholbach> nxvl: excellent
<nxvl> the odd thing is that it used to work
<nxvl> :S
<stefanlsd> nxvl: aah cool. i got bitten by that bug trying to compile zaptel
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> sorry about that
<nxvl> btw i need to swith to intrepid soon
<nxvl> asac: around?
<stefanlsd> work, cya guys :)
<Laney> morning guys
<dholbach> hi Laney
<Laney> yo dholbach, how's it going? Thanks for your comments on my app!
<dholbach> np :)
<dholbach> very good - how are you?
<Laney> Not too bad, had to work all weekend though :(
<Laney> But it means I get weds-fri off, so can't complain too much
<dholbach> nice... a long weekend :)
 * dholbach looks forward to next weekend - we're going to the Baltic Sea with friends
<Laney> Monday is a bank holiday in England too, so very long
<Laney> ooh nice, where abouts?
<dholbach> Laney: somewhere around here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=54.274046,12.293701&spn=0.35443,1.013489&t=h&z=10
<dholbach> not sure yet :)
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> it's about 300km from Berlin, so we should get there pretty quickly
<dholbach> hi geser
 * Laney is jealous, although going on a surfing break in September :>
<Laney> anyway, work calls
 * Laney runs off
<huats> morning everyone
<dholbach> geser: thanks a lot for looking into the sponsoring queue!
<geser> dholbach: np, but I just do the very easy ones. I wish I could do more, but I need to prepare for some exams next week.
<dholbach> geser: all the best with that!
<dholbach> I'll do some more sponsoring later today
<dholbach> all: and YOU should too! :)
<slicer> Hi. Does the debian import freeze prevent replacing an existing Ubuntu package with a more updated Debian one? If not, do I just do a sync request?
<directhex> no and yes, in that order
<slytherin> slicer: DIF just means that there are no auto syncs. Manual sync on demand is ok.
<Iulian> Good morning.
<jpds> morning Iulian
<Iulian> Heya jpds.
<bigon> does somebody know what's irc nick of Scott James Remnant ?
<geser> bigon: Keybuk, he's in #ubuntu-devel
<ogra> bigon, Keybuk
<bigon> oh right, thx
<mok0> Am I the only one that doesn
<mok0> doesn't think that the openid wiki login works?
<mok0> I seem to have to re-login every time I go to a new page
<geser> mok0: if it's the same problem that was discussed earlier on #launchpad then it's known and being worked on
<mok0> geser: ok, I am not crazy :-)
<mok0> You used to be logged on via your wikiname, now it's the irc nick, and when I click on that (top right) it says I don't have a home page
<ScottK> mok0: If you claim compliance with Standards Version 3.8.0 then the requirement for README.source is applicable (in the cases one is needed).
<mok0> ScottK: Right, thanks
<ma10> why do many java packages recommend the -gcj version too? this causes gcj to be pulled in everytime even if you have other jres..
<slytherin> ma10: there is a discussion going on. While persia and few others have agreed to move them to 'Suggests', doko is against that.
<ma10> oh.. +1 for the suggests from me (not that anybody cares)
<slytherin> ma10: by the way, #ubuntu-java is better place for java packaging matters
<ma10> ok sorry
<slytherin> ma10: nothing to be sorry, very few people are aware of existence of that channel.
<Hew> Can someone from u-u-s check out bug 209084? The requested update has been made to the debdiff.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 209084 in wireshark "debian/control must Recommends menu to run with elevated privileges in hardy" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209084
<gaspa> 'homepage' field in control file, could be associated to binary package, too ... or only to source pkgs?
<slytherin> gaspa: why do you need it in binary package?
<gaspa> slytherin: because in actual description there are different homepages for each binary package.
<gaspa> slytherin: the package is lightning-extension-locales
<slytherin> gaspa: Oh. To answer your original question, you can use it for binary packages.
<gaspa> slytherin: ok, thanks. :)
<gaspa> asac: do you have a few time to take a look at bug #259052 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259052 in lightning-extension-locales "Depends field don't follow Debian Policy ..." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259052
<asac> gaspa: please try to get in contact with saivaan
<asac> not sure if he has a bzr brnah or something
<gaspa> fine.
<asac> gaspa: when he signs this off (or doesnt reply), please let me know
<gaspa> i'll mail him just now.
<jdong> anyone know about swt-gtk in Intrepid?
<jdong> I see it was MOTU uploaded, but the last time I asked about doing it, doko got pretty irate at me for suggesting it
<jdong> I was wondering if we checked with core-devs to make sure it was okay
<geser> jdong: the sync of swt-gtk was ACKed by doko, see bug 249158
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249158 in ubuntu "Please sync swt-gtk 3.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249158
<jdong> geser: thanks, I see, I guess everyone got impatient with eclipse 3.4 :D
<directhex> what's the procedure for requesting a package be promoted to main?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<geser> directhex: writing a MIR
<geser> directhex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<bddebian> Heya geser
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: heya
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac
<firstman> hi
<firstman> i have a question about the process fixing a typo bug
<firstman> i can fix is with a postint script
<firstman> but i should write to the original developer for change in the next version or something like that?
<firstman> and it should be written in changelog? (that i have write to developer)
<k0p> DktrKranz, are you there?
<DktrKranz> k0p: yep
<k0p> DktrKranz, well.. some weeks my package is in the queue yet. Is it really accepted?
<k0p> it's 10 day in queue.. to appear in archive.
<k0p> I think something happen
<DktrKranz> k0p: I think it's in universe right now
<DktrKranz> or at least the one I uploaded
<k0p> when I can see?
<DktrKranz> which was package name?
<k0p> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/u/umit/
<k0p> umit
<k0p> there isnt binary files
<DktrKranz> source is in universe, binary are still in NEW
<DktrKranz> it won't be in NEW for long, just wait a couple of days :)
<leleobhz> someone can explain me why sane depends X and gnome packages?
<k0p> DktrKranz, it's from 8th. but ok I keep wait :)
<k0p> thanks
<k0p> leleobhz, sane is backend right?
<leleobhz> k0p: backend and frontend...
<DktrKranz> NEW is quite long right now, but I think it will be processed quickly now we're approaching Feature Freeze
<leleobhz> k0p: but sane can be used only has xinetd daemon for network scanning
<cyberix> Does someone know why Ubuntu doesn't have miredo?
<cyberix> All Debian has it
<cyberix> Even the really old ones.
<Pici> !info miredo
<ubottu> miredo (source: miredo): Teredo IPv6 tunneling through NATs. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.3-1 (hardy), package size 71 kB, installed size 316 kB
<k0p> DktrKranz, ok thanks :)
<Pici> cyberix: Looks like feisty+ has it
<cyberix> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=miredo&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
<cyberix> I wonder why it can't be found at packages.ubuntu.com
<cyberix> I can find it using apt-cache search
<DktrKranz> cyberix: I get an "Internal server error", it is probably due to that.
<Pici> cyberix: I can't anything right now with packages.u.c
<cyberix> ok
<cyberix> thanks
<leleobhz> another: what happened with daemontools package?
<DktrKranz> leleobhz: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/daemontools/1:0.76-3
<leleobhz> DktrKranz: it isnt available via apt
<leleobhz> why?
<Pici> leleobhz: From Intrepid?
<leleobhz> hardy
<leleobhz> packages contain "daemontools" in their description: svtools minit
<leleobhz> o.0
<leleobhz> name change?
<DktrKranz> leleobhz: it's available in intrepid only
<leleobhz> ok
<bddebian> Is there a slick way to generate an additional locale, say Spanish, and just use it for one specific app?
<joaopinto> bddebian, locale-gen && export LANG ?
<geser> bddebian: or LANG=es_ES app
<bddebian> geser: Yeah, that's what I did, thanks!
<bddebian> And thanks to you too joaopinto
<sebner> geser: I owe you a beer ;)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, ping
<asac> RoAkSoAx: just ask when i am here ;) ... not need to ping. ill read backlog in case i am away :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, around?? heheh :P
<sebner> warp10: also thanks to you
<warp10> sebner: np, but... no beer for me? ;)
<geser> sebner: I need to learn for some exams, so please don't file so many sync requests :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, need your help with a package. libgecko2.0-cil changed /usr/lib/mono/gac/gecko-sharp   to  /usr/lib/cli/gecko-sharp-2.0/ right?? so, now blam wont compile because of this error: "error CS0006: cannot find metadata file `/usr/lib/mono/gecko-sharp-2.0/gecko-sharp-dependent.dll'" so i was wondering, what do i have to do so that when blam is compiling look for gecko-sharp-dependent.dll in /usr/lib/cil/*
<asac> RoAkSoAx: thats old
<asac> RoAkSoAx: i fixed gecko-sharp today
<asac> did the blam respin fail?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: it built https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blam/1.8.5-1ubuntu1
<RoAkSoAx> asac, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16889354/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.blam_1.8.5-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<asac> so all fine now
<asac> RoAkSoAx: look above
<RoAkSoAx> asac, yep can see that, thanks :)
<asac> np
<RoAkSoAx> asac, we were like crazy last night with nxvl cuz of that build error lol
<asac> RoAkSoAx: if you arew interested on what cause the problem, read the gecko-sharp2 changelog
<RoAkSoAx> asac, will do ;)
<gaspa> asac: still no answers from saivann. how much time would we give him?
<gaspa> couple of days?
<asac> gaspa: err .... at least a few days
<asac> you cannot expect anyone contributing to free software to answer within hours ;)
<asac> saivann has been quite responsive in the past
<gaspa> of course, i asked just 'cause i'm exiting...
<asac> gaspa: yeah. just remember to follow up in case you dont get reply within a few days
<asac> gaspa: did you send mail?
<asac> then all should be ok
<gaspa> sure, i sent it.
<asac> good
<gaspa> i didn't think to put you in Cc, sorry.
<sebner> warp10: well I said thanks. you ACKed 5-10% and geser the rest ^^
<gaspa> going home...bye!
<sebner> geser: well, there are other sposors too. just don't ACK if you don't have time ;)
<warp10> sebner: mmm... next time I need to ACK more then! :P
<sebner> warp10: of course. I had >20 ;)
 * warp10 thinks the queue would drop to less than 50 bugs if sebner would apply for MOTU
<sebner> warp10: I don't think there are any outstanding bugs from me except a merge which I'm doing right now :)
<warp10> sebner: but if you sponsor at the same pace you are currently providing debdiffs and sync requests... wow!
<sebner> warp10: ^^, hey I have still 4 sync requests without an ACK :D
<warp10> sebner: how many for a free beer... say... at next UDS?
<sebner> warp10: Same amount as geser ACKed :P though I surely won't be at the next 2 UDS
<warp10> sebner: mmm... your fare is definitely high, you know? :P
<sebner> warp10: of course but I besides I won't have time because of military education <-- if I can it in that way
 * DktrKranz thinks to hide when sebner's activity on #ubuntu-motu rises
<warp10> sebner: mmm... are you planning to go in some kind of military academy?
<sebner> DktrKranz: why?
 * DktrKranz hides
<sebner> warp10: no but I *have* to do it. just 6 months
<sebner> DktrKranz: xD
<sebner> DktrKranz: you didn't even ACK *one* sync request :P
 * DktrKranz hides better
<warp10> sebner: aaah... something like military duty
<sebner> warp10: yep, a social thing with 9 months or military thing with 6 months. And I took the latter because shorter :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: I still have 4 left and more will come (maybe not today but surely on weekend) :P
<warp10> sebner: heh! :)
 * DktrKranz invokes divine intervention, or Achmed's
<sebner> DktrKranz: SILENCE, I. K. Y. :P
<DktrKranz> sebner: Y. R. B. :P
<sebner> *hrhr*
<sebner> so, who wants my 4 sync requests?
 * warp10 hides
<DktrKranz>  /me... no!
<sebner> pffffff
<sebner> emgent: hiuhu emgent my friend. you surely want to ACK 4 easy sync bugs, right?
 * DktrKranz is waiting for p-a-s adjustments, in the meantime... c u later
<sebner> DktrKranz: p-a-s?
<StevenK> Packages-arch-specific
<sebner> StevenK: wuh, thx
<sebner> DktrKranz: hf
<StevenK> Don't try and build <package> on a buildd that isn't <arch>
<emgent> sebner: please subscribe u-u-s/u-m-s
<DktrKranz> this time I want to build packages which are not considered :)
<sebner> emgent: they are ;)
<emgent> sebner: so please wait.. :)
<sebner> ember: bah, I'm u-u-c so I have the right to annoy MOTUs to ACK my bugs :P
<ScottK> sebner: And we have the right to ignore you.
<sebner> ScottK: hrhr, you aren't a s-o-s yet :P
<ScottK-laptop> I'm not going to ask.
<sebner> better
<sebner> ^^
<YokoZar> ScottK: I was reading the DVD thread, and I wanted to talk to you about the main inclusion process; if we go ahead and do that for Wine, then there'd be about 12 packages that also need to go
<ScottK> YokoZar: You'd also need to convince Canonical that they want to suck up providing security support for WINE.
<ScottK> The answer to what I'm guessing is your question is, yes, you have about a dozen MIR to write.
<ScottK> But I'd get an endorsement on the idea from kees first.
<sebner> ScottK: on weekend I'd help you with clamav MIR's
<ScottK> sebner: Great.  I look forward to it.
<sebner> ScottK: just remember me (and mentor me :P)
<sebner> *remind
 * sebner has a bad english -.-
<ScottK> I'll try and remember (don't forget I'm old), and will be glad to mentor you.
<sebner> ScottK: fine =)
 * directhex needs to write a MIR for webkit-sharp
<kees> YokoZar: btw, for the sysctl stuff, I'd like to make it a separate package from wine.
<kees> YokoZar: like, "wine-16bit" or something
<kees> and have it just a Suggests.  most people don't need that sysctl turned off, and I'd like to maximize the # of people getting protected
<kees> as for wine in main, i don't see a reason for it.
<kees> YokoZar: I've got a package of procps with the sysctl stuff broken out, but I want to run it by the platform team first.
<YokoZar> kees: Yeah I had that idea as well
<YokoZar> kees: I was going to suggest a package "initial-memory-access" that Wine and similar packages could recommend (since the problem doesn't seem to be Wine-specific
<kees> YokoZar: true.  "lowmem-access" maybe?  I'd like to have it be a "Suggests" in Wine to avoid having it auto-installed.  dosemu probably would need a Depend, though.  :P
<YokoZar> kees: My worry there is that it's very hard for a user to figure out when he needs to install that package.  In order to even see that you're getting the memory errors you have to be running Wine in the terminal.  Perhaps if Wine had some sort of magic like the codec installer that detected the 16 bit program and prompted you to install the package, but that seems like a strange/frightening interface to create
<kees> YokoZar: what happens now when a 16bit app tries to run?
<lukehasnoname> I know this isn't #ubuntu but I'm blocked from getting in there since I use Mibbit (which is stupid). So, could someone tell me the name of the program that allows you to act as root in Nautilus? And how I enable it?
<lukehasnoname> as someone sympathetic to my plight of IRC-blocking college netadmins and mibbit blocking IRC admins
<azeem> lukehasnoname: try some web forum or the ubuntu-users mailing list, then
<lukehasnoname> ok
<lukehasnoname> sorry to interrupt the active flow of conversation
<YokoZar> kees: Wine silently fails and dumps a message to the terminal
<YokoZar> kees: if it's a 32 bit application making a 16 bit call, though, the application will still run but the call will fail (often this makes the user think that Wine itself isn't working).  This for instance happens with older Install Shields
<kees> YokoZar: hrm, I see.
<tuxmaniac> I would like to work on bug 207760 and need advice with how to go about it. Apply that patch using some patch system is good enough? Or is there some other way out?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207760
<Ampelbein> Hi! I need some advice on how to continue with Bug #179215. I have fixed the issue by patching the current ubuntu-sources, generated a debdiff, attached it and subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug. was that the correct way of doing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179215 in mono "mono-jay includes no parser skeleton(s)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179215
<ScottK> Ampelbein: Yes.
<geser> Ampelbein: the general procedure was almost okay
<geser> but mono is in main, so ubuntu-main-sponsors would be the correct sponsorship team
<geser> and IMHO are more clean solution would be to make the skeleton dir /usr/share/jay and install the skeleton file there instead of point to /usr/share/doc/...
<Ampelbein> damn. i knew i should have had a look on that. thanks for the info.
<directhex> Ampelbein, please discuss with #debian-mono on oftc before mucking about with mono
<Ampelbein> geser: i just thought that sample files should go to /usr/share/doc
<geser> Ampelbein: yes, but not if a program needs it to work properly
<directhex> jms@minimoose:~/Projects/working$ jay -p
<directhex> /usr/share/jay
<Ampelbein> directhex: ok, will see that i'll do that.
 * ScottK notes that there is now an openSUSE Proofreading Team.  There is a team gap that needs to be closed.
 * Laney wonders why bug #244531 hasn't been ACKed yet, when several other syncs have been
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244531 in xaos "Please sync xaos 3.4-1 (Universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244531
<kostmo> Hey all, I am looking for MOTU advocates for my package "pyrocket": http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3240
<kostmo> pyrocket is a driver and frontend for of the Striker II and Dream Cheeky USB rocket launchers that you might find on ThinkGeek or other novelty shops
<kostmo> it exposes more functionality the Windows drivers, and allows more methods of control, like joystick and computer vision
<kostmo> are any MOTUs online at the moment?
<ScottK> kostmo: IIRC I left you some comments.  Did you deal with them?
<kostmo> ah i see them now
<kostmo> let me take a look
<kostmo> I will change those descriptions and re-upload in a few minutes
<ScottK> JFTR, not checking first to see if you've got comments is not an incentive.
<kostmo> sorry about that
<kostmo> I think it would be really cool if REVU would send e-mail alerts when someone comments on your package
<ScottK> There's a mail list for that.
<kostmo> really? I will sign up then.
<kostmo> ah, I see how to use the news aggregator with your package.  I wish I had noticed that before.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-19
<kostmo> ScottK: I've made the description changes to both the control file and manpage, if you are inclined to be an advocate... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3405
<ScottK> I may have time to look later.  I'm busy with $WORK at the moment.
<kostmo> ok, thank you
<bddebian> Heya folks
<RAOF> Howdie bddebian
<bddebian> Heya RAOF
<bddebian> Any of you know if there is a nice and easy way to really figure out DEPENDSON in Makefile.am without digging through all the dependencies by hand?
<RAOF> bddebian: Not from Makefile.am, but configure.ac will ideally have a whole bunch of PKG_CHECK_MODULES
<RAOF> bddebian: They'll use pkg-config to check for the presence of various stuff, and apt-file can inform you of the package providing the relevant .pc file.
<nxvl> kirkland: i replied on revu (update-motd package)
<nxvl> kirkland: other than that suggeston i'm quite happy with what i've already reviewed
<nxvl> any revu admins around?
<bddebian> RAOF: I don't mean external package dependencies.  I mean actual object files within the same package.
<RAOF> Oh.  That did sound like a fairly basic question ;).
<RAOF> Do you mean minimal dependencies or make-dependencies?
<RAOF> It should be possible to extract the latter without too much trouble, but extracting the former will likely require source-greppage.
<RAOF> automake will link all the object files from foo_SOURCES together, right?
<bddebian> RAOF: Gah, sorry, I didn't realize you were still talking to me
<bddebian> Makefile.am just has this endless list of:  DEPENDSON = ../GameScenario.o ../army.o ../GameMap.o ../templelist.o ....
<jdong> new azureus crack, away we upload...
<jdong> once vmware fusion boots back up
<jdong> stupid wrong button
<jdong> problem #4 with macs: Too few buttons = buttons are too big = chances of hitting the wrong one increase.
<NCommander> persia, its amazing how one can be so dead to the world that connecting to IRC is a burden
<nxvl> NCommander: i was looking for you
<NCommander> what did I break now?
<nxvl> NCommander: i've just been added to the MOTU team, but in REVU i still apear as a normal contributor
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> default answer :P
<NCommander> Its not an automatic upgrade
<NCommander> We need to manually set you in REVU to be a reviewer
<NCommander> Altering nxvl to level reviewer
<NCommander> Done
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> i thought it was automagiuc
<nxvl> Thank you!
<NCommander> That's one of "it would be nice" things
<ScottK> nxvl: It's only automagic after you ask NCommander.
<ScottK> Speaking of automagic ...
<ScottK> NCommander: How's your relibtoolization skillz?
<NCommander> ScottK, you summone RoAkSoAx?
<NCommander> Uh
<NCommander> Depends on how much pain you want to force on me
<NCommander> (I helped fix libtool on OS X when it first came out, take a guess)
<ScottK> So your inured to the pain by now then I'll assume.
<RoAkSoAx> what who when where?
<nxvl> ScottK: :D
<NCommander> RoAkSoAx, sorry, you walked into the punchline of a bad pun.
<RoAkSoAx> NCommander, haha ok np =)
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: i know what ScottK is talking about, better run!
<NCommander> ScottK, what do you need fixed
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, lol
<NCommander> nxvl, your an MOTU, you should be teaching me these things ;-)
<nxvl> NCommander: ok, then RUN!
<ScottK> NCommander: Would you please have a look at Bug 254681.
 * NCommander runs towards the danger
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254681 in courier "please merge courier 0.60.0-1 from debian sid" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254681
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> i knew this bug was about to show up
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK 
<ScottK> There's a debdiff at the end that is almost right +/- libtool something.
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> If either one of you will sponsor the end result
<NCommander> I'll fix it
<ScottK> Thanks.
<nxvl> i'm really interested in the result of this package
<nxvl> i gived up last week
<NCommander> BTW, after today, I'm going to have somewhat limited Ubuntu machine access until September
<nxvl> i needed to step out before i will start hating libtool more that i do now
<NCommander> (the laptop getting a Debian kFreeBSD installation)
<nxvl> NCommander: kvm
<NCommander> I don't think kernel virtual machines support freebsd ;-)
<nxvl> emu?
<nxvl> qemu
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm a Debian Maintainer and I don't run it at all.  I just do stuff in chroots.
<NCommander> You can't run a LInux based distro on a freebsd host ;-)
<nxvl> i use chroot's + kvm's
<ScottK> You're right.  I can't, but I bet you can.
<NCommander> You have amazing faith in me
<ajmitch> NCommander: september is only a couple of weeks away
<NCommander> (I probably could force it to run under Linux emulation)
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> I'll probably just bootstrap Ubuntu kfreebsd, and call it Freentu :-P
 * NCommander needs a hobby or something
<ajmitch> shun the heretic
<nxvl> NCommander: ScottK is amazing giving you emotional support and self-confidence
 * nxvl HUGS ScottK for that
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> Anyone got a quick link to the .dsc?
<ScottK> NCommander: At one point I thought it might be something related to parallel building, so there's one thing that needs to come out of that debdiff before you play with it.
<nxvl> grab-merge is cool
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> what?
<NCommander> What package is that form?
<nxvl> NCommander: http://merges.ubuntu.com/
<NCommander> Oh
<nxvl> NCommander: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
<NCommander> That package grabber
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> we love MoM
<NCommander> I thought I had that script in my bin
 * NCommander looks at the hurd source code on his machine
<NCommander> Ok, its downloading
<NCommander> Slowly
<ajmitch> you are sick, aren't you?
<nxvl> i tryed to boot hurd once
 * ajmitch quietly hides his checkout of the hurd source
<nxvl> tried*
 * ajmitch ran it on a computer for awhile
<nxvl> i runned quick screaming lout
 * ajmitch was able to compile packages, and had a webserver on there
<ScottK> NCommander: I added a thing in rules to export DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS 'parallel=1' when I was testing a theory.  I forget to take that out before I attached the debdiff.
<nxvl> oh damn i thing i'm mixing english with german again
 * NCommander has CVS commit access to the hurd repo
<NCommander> I think I win
<nxvl> NCommander: don't even look at my debdiff, they are horrible
<NCommander> nxvl, I thought you were an MOTU ...
<NCommander> ;-)
<nxvl> NCommander: yes i am, and part of being motu is knowing your limitations and steping out of what you can't do
<NCommander> Hrm
<nxvl> ScottK: doesn't it?
<NCommander> Interesting concept, I should introduce it to Debian
<ScottK> nxvl: Absolutely.
<nxvl> \o/
<ScottK> NCommander: I'm core-dev and I'm looking for help.
<nxvl> we are not packaging or code gods
<NCommander> I thought ScottK was
<nxvl> just normal (well, not so normal) people contributing on what we can
<NCommander> Normal is relative
<nxvl> NCommander: yep, that's the why of the "(well, not so normal)" part
<ScottK> Yeah.  I've met nxvl in person.
<ScottK> ;-)
<nxvl> heh
<NCommander> ScottK, is that a good or bad thing?
<ajmitch> ScottK: lucky you
<nxvl> ajmitch: where are you based?
<nxvl> and btw, i would say he so lucky about that
<nxvl> <- evil nerd
<ajmitch> nxvl: ends of the earth
<ScottK> It was a good thing, but it'd be better if he'd been able to fix courier.
<nxvl> ajmitch: asia?
<ajmitch> nxvl: New Zealand
<ScottK> Further south.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yes, the end of the earth
<NCommander> ScottK, how'd you manage to downgrade config.status/config.guess?
<nxvl> actually i want to go to New Zeland some day
<nxvl> and Australia
<nxvl> NCommander: we made A LOT of tries
<ScottK> NCommander: I have no idea.
<NCommander> THe patch doesn't apply cleanly to the base tarball
<ScottK> I do note that we have the libtool from Experimental in Intrepid, so I choose to blame it.
 * ajmitch has been to australia a few times
<ScottK> NCommander: It's a diff to the latest Debian revision.
<NCommander> Ah
<NCommander> ANd now it does :-P
<NCommander> So is this a FTBFS error, or something else
<ScottK> FTBFS on maildrop.
<NCommander> And I should wipe out the parallel=1?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> And the comment line above it and the related debian/changelog entry.
<NCommander> and who's name going on the changelog?
<NCommander> Damn
<ScottK> Yours if you fix it.
<nxvl> thank god, i can't remember what the error was!
<NCommander> That's one long changelog
<ScottK> Welcome to Courier.
<nxvl> and to bleeding edge development
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK> Note that the Debina maintainer's package is still standards version 3.6 something.
<nxvl> and using older libtool
<NCommander> BUilding
<NCommander> er
<nxvl> really older one
<StevenK> And? Standards-Version isn't so important
<NCommander> install build-deps
<StevenK> Policy hasn't changed markedly from 3.6.x to 3.8
<ScottK> StevenK: Agreed, but in this case it's an indication of how long it
<ScottK> it's been since he seriously thought about the package.
<NCommander> I recently fixed a package that was still 2.x series in its stanards versoins
<NCommander> I recently ran the entire Debian archive's GPG signatures
<nxvl> holly!
<NCommander> and found a few invalid ones
<NCommander> (and then promptly spammed the FTP admin with removal requests)
<nxvl> why DD's enjoy rebuilding the archive
<NCommander> No, not a rebuild
<NCommander> I was actually checking every dsc to see if it was a valid signature
 * nxvl quivers
<NCommander> against the keyring
<NCommander> Part of importing the archive using dak
<NCommander> Probably the fastest turn around time on a removal request ever
<NCommander> (Geoneff went WTF when he was pointed to the packages with invalid signatures)
<StevenK> NCommander: I have a bug that was filed as an MIR, and turned into a removal request
<NCommander> er, Ganneff
<NCommander> rofl
<NCommander> I've never seena  removal fly durign a freeze ;-)
<NCommander> The running theory is that there used to be a bug in the very old dinstall (before dak) scripts which corrupted the signature
<NCommander> or something
<NCommander> I've never seen GPG error out with unknown public key algrothmin
<nxvl> escuses
<NCommander> (and I installed IDEA to make sure it wasn't that)
<StevenK> I have. I've tried to convince pitti to remove something, NEW it, and then get it removed again.
<NCommander> o_o;
<NCommander> how'd that fly?
<StevenK> It didn't, but it made him laugh, which was the idea.
<nxvl> excuses*
 * NCommander has that horror feeling you'd do that to some archive admin to make them question their grip on reality
<ScottK> Shoot.  I can quit now.  According to me email, I'm a lucky winner.
<ScottK> me/my
<NCommander> ScottK, can you patebin the actual FTBFS? (I'm waiting for this to build)
<nxvl> ScottK: on what?
<NCommander> oh geeze, this configure script recursively calls itself ...
<NCommander> *winces*
<ScottK> I don't have it still.
 * NCommander has never seen a changelog with three different people editing the SAME entry)
<ScottK> NCommander: Welcome to team maintenance.
<ScottK> It's the Ubuntu way.
<nxvl> ep
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> i have seen a lot of them
<nxvl> i thing the record was 4 people
<NCommander> I'm suprised their isn't a lintian warning
<nxvl> VCS ftw!
<NCommander> W: debian-developers-being-social
<ScottK> All done with no fancy VCS either.
<ScottK> nxvl: Which one.
<nxvl> ScottK: that's the scary part
<NCommander> There is bazaar
<nxvl> ScottK: don't remember, but i have the image in my head of 4 people in a changelog entry
<ScottK> nxvl: Find me a VCS that can handle 20.000 source packages and we'll talk.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> git \o/
<ScottK> NCommander: Yes, if you want to wait for the heat death of the Universe while you branch it.
<NCommander> Oh, you mean the entire repo?
<nxvl> (the hardware is a different thing
<NCommander> BitKeeper :-P
<ScottK> Yeah.
<NCommander> Unless you meant a free based one
<ScottK> We already use LP, so that's clearly not a criteria.
<NCommander> I dunno, git doesn't massive repos well (as in size, any given checkout of Linux is just 50-60MB, but I can't see it scalling all the way up to 200-300GB)
<NCommander> ^do
<nxvl> ScottK: canonical will open LP this year (well, at least that's what has been told)
<ScottK> Fundamentally in Universe, until you can stuff the whole thing in one VCS and get agreement on it, the source package is the one and only canonical source for a package and VCS just isn't interesting.
<NCommander> They've been saying that for years
<ScottK> nxvl: Yep.  It'll happen when it happens.
<ScottK> NCommander: But they never put a timeline on it before.
 * NCommander is reminded SourceForge.net was on a timeline to be opened sourced
<NCommander> configure. is. still. running.
<ScottK> Freeing the source is important, but I don't think it'll do much to change the aspects of the project that I find most problematic.
<NCommander> *wince*
<NCommander> ScottK, try and find (or write) a greasemonkey script to make LP usable ;-)
<ScottK> I have great hopes for \sh and Leonov.
<NCommander> \sh works for Canonical?
<ScottK> No.
<NCommander> what is he working on then?
<nxvl> holly crap, one more windows specific software for the university
<ScottK> He's writing a python-qt4 Launchpad client using python-launchpad
<nxvl> they only make me hate microsft more that i do now
<NCommander> nxvl, see if it works in WINE
<NCommander> ScottK, wow .... that's awesome
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i've been through that too :P
<NCommander> It reminds me of GNATS ...
<nxvl> NCommander: i hate wine too
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> nxvl, red or white?
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> class i over
<nxvl> read you later!
 * ScottK hands NCommander https://launchpad.net/leonov
<NCommander> I think bash.org went up to that 404 in the sky ...
<NCommander> FINALLY
<NCommander> courier starts compiling
<NCommander> What a beast
<NCommander> Configure should die
<ScottK> It seemed to me you'd find it familiar and welcoming.
<NCommander> configure isn't so bad if you write the scripts right
<NCommander> i.e. most GNU projects and Hurd
<NCommander> Then you get some beautiful abuses
<NCommander> GCC for instance
<ScottK> Right, but you seem to revel in painful code.
<NCommander> ITs the only script I've ever seen that can actually compile binutils, glibc, newlib, hurd, and gnumach all in a single pass
<NCommander> O_o;
<NCommander> ^autoconf
<NCommander> BTW, perforce could handle the entire ubuntu packages repo
<NCommander> its probably one of the only VCSs that could scale to the size required
<ScottK> At $900 per seat.
<NCommander> Open source development on perforce is free
<NCommander> That's why both OpenWatcom and FreeBSD use it
<ScottK> Hmmmm.
<ScottK> Interesting.
<ScottK> The only time I've run into was at a customer's that was not doing open source development.
<NCommander> Oh for the love of
<NCommander> WTF is wrong with this libtool script
<NCommander> *twich
<NCommander> git's inability to handle directory history tracking bugs me
<NCommander> (and the way it handles renames)
<NCommander> it looks like this libtool is broken compiling CXX objects
<NCommander> ScottK, well, I kinda figured out your issue
<NCommander> did you touch this libtool script?
<ScottK> No.  The straight Debian package fails the same way on Intrepid.
<NCommander> for some reason
<NCommander> Half the script is corrupted
<NCommander> I copied a known working libtool
<NCommander> and it works
<NCommander> How big of a hack do you want this to be?
<ScottK> I'll settle for working and no one will yell at me if I upload it.  Maintainable would be nice.  Bonus points for a nice patch we can send to Debian.
<NCommander> Does the Debian one build?
<NCommander> (I'd be extremely suprised)
<ScottK> Not on Intrepid.  They both build on Sid.  Neither build on Experimental.
<NCommander> Ok
<ScottK> Note that Intrepid and Experimental have the same libtool.
<NCommander> configure generating a bum libtool
<NCommander> None of the configuration variables are being set properly
<ScottK> OK.  So how do we fix it.
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> Copy the working libtool from the base of the source directory into maildrop
<NCommander> Which gets maildrop building
<NCommander> But its ugly as hell
<ScottK> OK.  What's the non-ugly answer?
<NCommander> I think its cached the old libtool
<NCommander> All the autocrap cache files are sitting here
<ScottK> OK.  So maybe I just open a pristine tarball, drop the debian dir in there and see if it builds.
<NCommander> I think these cache files are from upstream
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> Crap.
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> Crap
<NCommander> I'm seeing if I can rebuild autotools
<NCommander> (in maildrop)
<NCommander> Want to see if clean source just builds?
<ScottK> Wiorking on it.
 * NCommander looks at autofun's manual
<NCommander> There's probably an M4 macro missing
<ScottK> Build started, so we'll know in a few hours ...
<Hobbsee> build will fail.
<NCommander> ??
<NCommander> Why does courier take so long to build?
<ScottK> It doesn't really take hours.  It just feels like it.
<Hobbsee> GAH!!!
<NCommander> I'm checking now on a clean build
<NCommander> Hobbsee, ?
<Hobbsee> my battery has died, in my music player.
<Hobbsee> and i didn't bring the USB cable to charge it, or anything.
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> On a clean courier
<NCommander> Maildrop builds out of the box
<NCommander> so we can blame debian on this one
<ScottK> Excellent.
<NCommander> Ugh
<ScottK> Mark yourself off in debian/changelog for having cleaned it up and attach a debdiff to the bug.
<NCommander> He inlines all the patches
<ScottK> Ugh.
<ScottK> So we have to sort the real changes from the libtool cruft.
<Hobbsee> tasty.
<NCommander> how do some of these people become DDs
<NCommander> How do they pass T&S
<ScottK> Some of them did before there was T&S.
<ScottK> Some of them are no doubt the reason there is T&S.
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> *twichs*
<NCommander> I think all these config.sub files in the diff file are doing it
<NCommander> are the .po files susposed to be in the diff o_o;
<ScottK> Some of those are likely bogus and some aren't.
<NCommander> The timestamp is from a few versions ago
<NCommander> I just removed them all
<NCommander> If it builds
<NCommander> Fine
<NCommander> It's building
<NCommander> ScottK, I'm trying to figure out if I should hurt the Debian upstream or the courier upstream
<NCommander> The former for doing fun stuff like .sub/.guess when out of the box works fine, and the later for using autofun
<ScottK> So I removed that from the diff and I'm going through to make sure no other crap snuck in.
<ScottK> I'm currently at line 10,729 of the .diff.  Not kidding.
<NCommander> Mine is down to 6000-ish
<NCommander> I removed everything expect the "seems to still be needed", and everything in debian
<ScottK> I'm trying to preserve the .po file changes so it's a little less simple.
<NCommander> I left those in
<NCommander> And mine was still down to 6000
<NCommander> He included config.status/config.guess at least a dozen times
<NCommander> er wait
<NCommander> Sorry
<NCommander> Mine is 13166
<NCommander> Miscounted
<NCommander> (had a stray / 2o ro something ;-)
<RAOF> bddebian: Still interested in discussing that dependency thing?  That sounds like upstream doesn't actually know how to use automake :)
<bddebian> RAOF: I'm trying to help upstream.  He inherited the build system from someone else
<RAOF> Ah, right.  So what's actually happening is that the build is currently producing a pseudo-library in one directory and trying to use it in this one?
<bddebian> Apparently :)
<Fab987> hi everybody
<NCommander> ScottK, its past the point where it was FTBFSing I think
<RAOF> Probably what wants to happen is adding some foo_LIBADD=../thelibdirectory/foo.a, I think.
<ScottK> OK.
<Fab987> do you know where i should ask for a software in Universe ?
<bddebian> RAOF: That's one possibility but he doesn't want a static library that gets installed if possible I think.  Something like a libtool convenience library or such?
<NCommander> ScottK, I spoke too soon
<ScottK> OK.  What now?
<RAOF> bddebian: Yeah.  The goat book (I think) has a section dedicated to "internal convenience libraries".
<RAOF> bddebian: http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_92.html#SEC92
<ScottK> NCommander: I just finished mine and started it to build.
<NCommander> ScottK, well, if you want a super-sized hack to make it build, through "cp $srcidr/libtool $srcdir/maildrop/libtool" after configure
<NCommander> and it will work :-/
<bddebian> RAOF: Thanks man
<ScottK> Maybe if this one doesn't work I'll try that.  .diff.gz looks way cleaner in any case.
<NCommander> ScottK, I might have run down the configure.in issue with libtool
<NCommander> (I had to rearrange some of the rules)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> nm
<ScottK> Nope.  Mine didn't work either.
<NCommander> Its frustaitng
<nxvl> NCommander: you fixed courier?
<NCommander> I have a work around which works
<NCommander> Buts not a real fix
<nxvl> :(
<ScottK> NCommander: Are you up for fiddling around with it some more?
<ScottK> Clearly you're making progress.
<NCommander> I told you my "fix"
<NCommander> IT was to copy a libtool from a source folder which works ;-)
<ScottK> Right.  I want the better one.
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I'm going to start zapping patches one by one
<NCommander> Especially the more braindead looking ones
<ScottK> If you can't figure it, we'll do the whack job, but we've got time until freeze to figure it out.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<NCommander> I think I found the patch that broke it
<NCommander> It removes a sanity check
<NCommander> Which is obviously now required for sanity
<NCommander> Whoever packaged this should be shot
<StevenK> NCommander: Out of a cannon?
 * nxvl waves on NCommander 
<NCommander> This package is almost enough to make me want to break from the Debian package and do Ubuntu specific ones
<NCommander> ScottK, and no complaining about ubuntu specific packages if the debian packaging so braindead that it makes my eyes bleed
 * NCommander is preemptive
<ScottK> Up to now it's actually worked.
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> The same could be said about hurd
<NCommander> Doesn't mean you want to use it
<StevenK> It's Courier, like it's worked well
 * NCommander has always used UW IMAPd
<nxvl> i use courier
<nxvl> i think
<NCommander> SASL makes my brain hurt
<StevenK> I used Cyrus for a while, and now I run Dovecot.
<nxvl> snedmail makes my brain freeze
<nxvl> ok yeah
<nxvl> dovecot is what i used
<nxvl> not courier
<nxvl> postfix+dovecot
<nxvl> (i hate mondays)
<StevenK> nxvl: Me too.
 * StevenK <3's Postfix+Dovecot
<StevenK> SMTP AUTH with 3 whole lines in main.cf, it's *wonderful*
<NCommander> I used to compile sendmail from source
<ScottK> NCommander: Have you ever looked at the Debian package for Sendmail?
<NCommander> CDBS
<NCommander> There are things that even hurt for me
<ScottK> Not only that.
<ScottK> Tarball in Tarball plus CDBS.  Then it gets weird.
<NCommander> o_o;
<NCommander> O.o;;;;
<NCommander> compiling sendmail isn't actually that hard
<NCommander> (vs configuring it)
<NCommander> HOW THE HELL DO YOU SCREW THAT UP?
<NCommander> I use exim on my laptop since I find its easier to setup smarthosts with it vs postfix
<NCommander> ANd I use postfix when I need a real MTA
<ScottK> The pacakge works, but contains no-nonmaintainer servicable parts.
 * StevenK hugs his colo'd mailserver
<ScottK> NCommander: I only touched it because I was trying to get packages the build milters promoted to Main.
<StevenK> ScottK: Ew.
<NCommander> ew
 * StevenK high fives NCommander 
<NCommander> Just getting sendmail to build with milters is like ...
 * NCommander high fives StevenK 
<NCommander> is like trying to use Vista as a desktop OS
<NCommander> Sure, it works, but you've got to bend over and feel the pain
<NCommander> ScottK, I fixed the maildrop FTBFS
<ScottK> Postfix OTOH works nicely with milters.
<NCommander> Now if the rest of the package compiles
<ScottK> Excellent.
<NCommander> If only I was an MOTU
 * NCommander ducks
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you have a cheat sheet about how milters fit into Postfix?
<ScottK> NCommander: I got amavid-new promoted and am working on Clamav in Main.  Both those build milters, so even if I don't care if they work, I need libmilter/libmiter-dev in Main to build the packages.
<NCommander> Bah
<NCommander> Debian clamav just posted a RFH
<NCommander> And is considering orphaning the package ....
<ScottK> StevenK: The README in the Postfix docs is pretty good.
<ScottK> NCommander: It's his second one.
<ScottK> StevenK: Any milter in particular?
<ScottK> StevenK: I'm running the DKIM one currently and it works fine.
<NCommander> The only milter I ever bothered to fight to get going with sendmail vs. using procmail was spamassassin
<StevenK> ScottK: I'm using Postfix and Mailscanner. At this point, something that has similar functionality and doesn't make people cry
<NCommander> clamav's source hurts
<NCommander> Badly
<ScottK> StevenK: The upstream recommended approach is to use Amavisd-new as a content filter.
 * NCommander listens to courier build
<ScottK> We have that in Main and then you can hang clamav and spamassassin or whatever off of it.
<NCommander> Does the CD include all of main?
<NCommander> (random, but curious)
<ScottK> Amavisd-new has excellent documentation on integrating with Postfix.
<ScottK> yes
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> If it didn't
<ScottK> If by CD, you mean all of them.
<NCommander> No, just the first one ;-)
<NCommander> I'd nominate for killing -devel off the first LiveCD/Alt CD
<NCommander> *-dev
<ScottK> i.e. Server CD has all the server parts.  Ubuntu Desktop has the Gnome crap, and Kubuntu has the good KDE stuff.
<StevenK> ScottK: My problem with that is it requires 2 more ports
<StevenK> ScottK: 25 -> 10025 -> 10026
<ScottK> Yes.  That's a problem for you?
<NCommander> what milter O_o?
<ScottK> amavisd-new does have a milter too.
<ScottK> I haven't used it.
<ScottK> NCommander: The CD doesn't have all the -dev packages, I don't think.
<NCommander> ScottK, it's got libc-dev, gcc, and such
<NCommander> While I can see the use for gcc on the alternate CD
<ScottK> Right.  I think it has build-essential.
<NCommander> (for those fun wonderful times you need to actually compile kernel modules from the ramdisk)
<NCommander> Ugh, that was fun
<ScottK> NCommander: How's it going?
<NCommander> That laptop could boot from CD< and then loose it later on
<NCommander> Freaking firewire based CD ROM drive
<NCommander> and the d-i of the day didn't include the firewire ATAPI drivers in the default kernel ;-)
<NCommander> So I built the modules right there in the ram disk
<NCommander> ScottK, compiling still
<NCommander> Which is bettre then where we got before
<ScottK> K.
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> FTBFS in webmail
<NCommander> (how the hell does it fail to build webmail O_O;;;;)
<NCommander> *sigh*
<NCommander> It seems everytime it rebuilds automake scripts
<NCommander> It goes boom
<ScottK> Sounds like you're making good progress though.
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> oh for the love of
<NCommander> These patches have been merged upstream for some considerable time
<NCommander> .....
<NCommander> I
<NCommander> ....
<ScottK> IIRC webmail is the last module to build.
<NCommander> It BURNS
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> It should be fixed now
<ScottK> See.  I knew you'd enjoy this one.
<NCommander> Finally
 * NCommander hits ScottK with some heavy lead coding pipes
<ScottK> NCommander: I need to go.  I have to get up in less than 6 1/2 hours and I haven't even had any alcohol yet.
 * NCommander hands you aclocal
<NCommander> Close enough :-P
<ScottK> NCommander: No.
<ScottK> NCommander: Would you please slap an appropriatley snarky debian/changelog entry on what you end up with and then attach a debdiff to the bug?  I'll sponsor it tomorrow.
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> Unless I find some vic^W helpful MOTU to upload ;-)
<ScottK> NCommander: Thanks.  This has been a big help.
<NCommander> who wants to upload a package :-P
<ScottK> Make nxvl do it if he comes back.
<ScottK> Good night.
<NCommander> night
<NCommander> warp10, are you an MOTU? (I forget)
<warp10> NCommander: Yeah, I am
<NCommander> warp10, can you sponsor an upload for me?
<NCommander> (as soon as I confirm it builds and stuff)
<warp10> NCommander: sure... which one?
<NCommander> courier IMAP
<StevenK> warp10: Run!
<StevenK> Now!
<NCommander> Finally resolved the FTBFS fun on that one
<StevenK> :-p
<warp10> StevenK: :D
 * NCommander kicks StevenK and jumps warp10
<StevenK> hAHA
<StevenK> Ooops, caps
<warp10> :D
<NCommander> You do it, and your REVU account stays safe, if not, then, well
<NCommander> Maybe your reviewer status will disappear :-P
<StevenK> NCommander: Like I want to use REVU
<NCommander> */blackmail*
<NCommander> *shot*
<NCommander> I was talking to warp10 :-P
<StevenK> Then I have to upload stuff
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> StevenK saw a fatal plan in my logicx
<warp10> NCommander: REVU still sees me as a contributor, so your blackmail is... useless! :P
<NCommander> fine
<NCommander> I'll make you a reviewer
<NCommander> (you do know you need to request reviewer status, right?)
<StevenK> I bleated at persia, and he fixed it
<warp10> NCommander: well, I asked already ( don't remember who answered to me here on motu). The problem was that I was registered there with an old GPG key, but that was before deploying the new openid based login
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> now that we have launchpadlib
<NCommander> I should make the auth levels smart
<NCommander> But
<StevenK> But?
<NCommander> I don't want to make REVU completely Lp dependent
<warp10> NCommander: why not?
<NCommander> I don't like having my name in software that ends up in Multiverse
<NCommander> It gives me a non-clean feeling ;-)
<warp10> :D
<NCommander> and courier keeps compiling
<RAOF> We should totally write some C++ that computes pi to a billion decimal places as a part of the compile process.
<ajmitch> RAOF: using templates, of course
<StevenK> And then Java to make sure the C++ version is right
<NCommander> I'm debating if switching to freebsd is worth it (I'll have Ubuntu running under Linux userspace emulation)
<NCommander> The only hardware that won't work is my wifi card unless I use ndiswrapper -_-;
<RAOF> ajmitch: Well, how else would you do it at compile time? :)
<lifeless> NCommander: 'worth it'? What would it do for you ?
<NCommander> I loath linux's "design"
<NCommander> I used FreeBSD as my desktop for many years before I got sick of compiling stuff from ports
<lifeless> you could use nexenta
<NCommander> solaris doesn't work well on laptops
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> must be nearly time to head home :)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch :-)
<StevenK> NCommander: The kernel design?
<NCommander> Or lack of one
<NCommander> I always felt Linux was a glorified hack
<NCommander> For instance
<StevenK> That's the beauty of it
<NCommander> Is it possible for Linux to have a STABLE driver API for more than a single release?
<NCommander> also, zfs and jails
<NCommander> 'nuf said
<StevenK> NCommander: So you prefer your ethernet devices having different names based on which driver is used?
<NCommander> I have that issue on Linux plenty
<lifeless> StevenK: linux does that too :P
<NCommander> usually its eth0
<NCommander> On this machine
<lifeless> or wlan0
<lifeless> or ath0
<NCommander> But it comes up eth1, or 2 randomly then
<NCommander> On my laptop
<NCommander> Hardwired ethernet is gpi0 or something like that, and wireless is eth0
<StevenK> Right, bad example :-/
<NCommander> Try your luck for 200?
<NCommander> I personally would like a kernel that doesn't look like drunk monkeys coded it in places
<NCommander> netbsd's kernel is absolutely beautiful :-)
<NCommander> It's userland is a POS however
 * RAOF would like a kernel that supports his hardware well.
<NCommander> RAOF, well, try the FreeBSD liveCD
<NCommander> (you'd be suprised)
<NCommander> If it works well
<NCommander> Join me in creating an ubuntu-like distro for it ;-)
<RAOF> Urgh. :)
<\sh> NCommander: I don't work for canonical and never will be...(hopefully :))
<NCommander> Don't want to code on LP ?
<RAOF> NCommander: Fix the *bsd kernel so that nouveau can work, and I'll give it a whirl.
 * NCommander cracks figures
<NCommander> *fingers
<\sh> NCommander: I don't want to earn money with opensource in the first place...I did this, and it is no fun...so working in my spare time and having a company which gives me time of my normal day time job to work on OSS is just enough
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> Correct me if I'mw rong
<NCommander> But I didn't think nouveau had a kernel module ...
<RAOF> NCommander: It certainly does; it's got a drm module.
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> Why would I want to put DRM in freebsd ;-)
<RAOF> :P
<NCommander> It looks like someone already beat me to the punch and ported it to freebsd
<NCommander> "This resolves and issue on amd64 FreeBSD"
<RAOF> Which particular one?  I know drm is ported to bsd, but is enough of it ported such that nouveau works? :)
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> Interesting
<NCommander> As for freebsd
<ajmitch> RAOF: how is nouveau progressing lately? I haven't heard any updates for awhile
<NCommander> All three more or less use the same driver API
<NCommander> (its usually trival to get one driver to from one to the other unless its netbsd's busmanager which the other two don't have)
<RAOF> ajmitch: nv5x recently grew some EXA/Xv/gallium/kernel modesetting.  Various 2d fixes.
<NCommander> its pretty cool
<NCommander> RAOF, so if I port nouvea to FreeBSD, can I convert you ;-)?
<ajmitch> RAOF: any real progress on 3D with gallium?
<RAOF> ajmitch: Not so much that they're interested in testing.
<RAOF> Oh, yeah, and there's an XvMC gallium implementation, too.
<ajmitch> so it's still in the trying out carious ideas to see what breaks the least
<RAOF> ajmitch: My understanding of the current state is that the nouveau parts are reasonably complete, actually, but the mesa-gallium isn't
<ajmitch> is the memory management debate being settled?
<ajmitch> I recall there being both TTM & GEM, or something along those lines
<RAOF> It seems GEM with an optional TTM backend is the outcome.
 * NCommander pops in a blank CD-R
<ajmitch> as long as people can actually decide & start using it :)
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> Out of curosity why hasn't it seen the inside of universe?
<RAOF> NCommander: it requires a git snapshot of libdrm.  I don't particularly feel like supporting the base of the 3d stack myself :)
<NCommander> oh, ow
<NCommander> But you do package libdrm
<RAOF> In my PPA.  Which I can do, because I don't have to care if I break anything.
<\sh> did I read it correct..now we have partner packages announced on -changes (hardy-changes , db2 stuff)?
<NCommander> nouveau works fine with freebsd
<NCommander> It's in ports I think
<ajmitch> \sh: looks like it
<RAOF> Cool.  Last I heard it was broken, presumably someone fixed it.
<NCommander> I have a NVDIA card
<NCommander> If I install FreeBSD on my spare parition
<\sh> ajmitch: did someone checked if it's really a source package or just a repackaged binary tar in a deb? ,-)
<RAOF> NCommander: And there's some sane package management for *bsd? :)
<NCommander> maybe I can be convienced to fix it
<NCommander> That's why I'll be running kfreebsd
<NCommander> FreebSD kernel
<NCommander> GNU userland
<NCommander> APT awesomeness
<RAOF> Right.  Debian-on-freebsd kernel.
<NCommander> I'm doing their lenny release ;-)
<NCommander> RAOF, well, you could always just use the nvidia binary blob ...
<NCommander> (for freebsd)
<RAOF> Or the nv driver, which doesn't need a kernel module.
<NCommander> IF you've never used ports
<NCommander> Its a pretty cool system
<StevenK> Except you need to build every damn thing
<StevenK> Yay Gentoo
<\sh> well, the idea behind portage (hence the name) was the bsd ports system....no secret
<StevenK> Well, yeah
<StevenK> I know
<NCommander> ports does support binary packages ;-)
<\sh> portage too..
<NCommander> ports doesn't change every time you blink
<\sh> but why should someone wants to use pre-compiled packages when there is the source and da evil CXX Flags ,-.>
<LucidFox> dholbach> bug #257623 can't be synced due to different orig.tar.gz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257623 in smplayer-themes "Please sync smplayer-themes 0.1.15.dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257623
<LucidFox> gah
<NCommander> \sh, run kfreebsd ;-)
<dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
<LucidFox> test
<NCommander> ?
<dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
<\sh> NCommander: the last time I ran bsd in a production environment in 1995 or 96 .. I was running BSDi...and the last time I tried freebsd was with release 5 and nothing was working as it was on linux...
<NCommander> I haven't used it in awhile myself
<NCommander> So I set aside 10G to dump a base install on
 * \sh used SCO as well...in former times there was no choice when you wanted to run a S2M (E3) card in a i386 box ,->
<nxvl> hi gang!
<NCommander> I learned how to use UNIX based systems on an open irix box
<NCommander> nxvl, I fixed it
<StevenK> \sh: Eww
<StevenK> NCommander: Ugh, Irix!?
<NCommander> 4.1
<NCommander> I compiled Elm in my home folder
<nxvl> NCommander: really?
<StevenK> But, Irix!?
 * nxvl checks
<\sh> s/E3/E1/ that's more like it..
<NCommander> nxvl, not uploaded yet
<NCommander> I'm going to kick it onto my PPA
<nxvl> ok
<NCommander> Could you sponsor for me?
<LucidFox> dholbach: bug #257623 can't be synced
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257623 in smplayer-themes "Please sync smplayer-themes 0.1.15.dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257623
<LucidFox> due to different orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> LucidFox: can you take care of the fake-sync?
<nxvl> NCommander: yep
<nxvl> it it works
<nxvl> dholbach: good morning
<dholbach> hi nxvl :)
<LucidFox> there's no need to fakesync - the Debian and Ubuntu versions are essentially identical
<dholbach> nice interview :)
<dholbach> LucidFox: OK, let's close the bug then
<NCommander> Hrm
<nxvl> thank you!
<NCommander> I'll have to use an external wireless card with freebsd
<dholbach> LucidFox: and sync with the next upstream version
<NCommander> But thats ok, cause then I can have a fully free system (aside from the BIOS)
<\sh> StevenK: Digital Unix and VMS but no irix... ,-)
<NCommander> nxvl, ugh, ew
<NCommander> YOu do not want to know how many lintian warnings this makes
<LucidFox> I actually have a new upstream version waiting on mentors.debian.net
<dholbach> LucidFox: excellent
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> NCommander: check how important they are, if not so much i will fix them
<nxvl> NCommander: you did the hard part
<NCommander> Uh
<NCommander> 22 errors
<NCommander> rpath
<NCommander> dup-config files
<NCommander> ANd
<nxvl> mmm it looks like i will have the intrepid release party in brazil
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> THey're all upstream
<NCommander> I don't mind helping
<nxvl> rpath! i know that
<NCommander> But this is too much for me
<NCommander> /bin/sh: -/usr/bin/make: not found
<NCommander> clean target is broken
<nxvl> i know that error too
<nxvl> NCommander: upload it i'll fix it
<NCommander> Can't
<NCommander> Don't have a clean source package to upload
<nxvl> juai?
<nxvl> debdiff
<nxvl> just give a something i can work on
<NCommander> Only works if you can build a source package ;-)
<NCommander> I just hacked the clean rule to work
<NCommander> You'll have to fix the lintian fun
<NCommander> I don't care to deal with this headache any more
<NCommander> (no offense)
<nxvl> NCommander: heh i said the same last week
<NCommander> well, it builds now
<NCommander> If you can fix it up
<NCommander> Fine
<NCommander> If not, just upload it
<nxvl> NCommander: if you fixed the libtool thing i can go further from that point without problems
<NCommander> All the lintian errors are from the original source package
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> i know that
<nxvl> i fixed some of them already
<NCommander> You should talk to the upstream debian guy
<NCommander> Point him to lintian
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> i will send him a BIG patch
<NCommander> How about deinlining the fixes
<nxvl> (if you can detail the solution that would be awesome too)
<NCommander> That's why this package was so broken
<NCommander> No patch system
<NCommander> and patches that went upstream years ago
<NCommander> (I cut a lot of fat out of the diff)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> i looks like you didn't have fun with this one
<NCommander> use dpatch if you ever want me to touch it again
<NCommander> My "fix" for the libtool issues was confirming I could remove almost every patch from this package
<NCommander> (had to run through changelogs to figure out what the hell what did what)
<NCommander> how long have you two been working to try and fix this POS?
<nxvl> \o/
<NCommander> ^packaging
<nxvl> 2 weeks?
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> You should have pointed me to it sooner
<NCommander> I solved it in what
<NCommander> A few hours?
<NCommander> Out of boredem
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> like 3
<NCommander> THat's just cause this figure takes *@@#! long to configure
 * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
<NCommander> yay
<NCommander> Say yes if/when I become an MOTU candiate
<NCommander> It's uploaded to my PPA
<NCommander> Got to wait for dinstall
<nxvl> lp id?
<NCommander> sonicmctails
<NCommander> (I just want to make sure it will build on normal i386/lpia)
<NCommander> I use amd64 and powerpc as my ubuntu boxes ;-)
<NCommander> nxvl, handy debugging hint for when things like this happen
<NCommander> Grab the original source package, and then see if that builds
<NCommander> If it does
<NCommander> Start popping patches off to figure out what breaks the build
<NCommander> Useful tip from an old foggie porter
<NCommander> courier is in my PPA
<NCommander> Its building
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> yep, i'm on your ppa
<NCommander> ScottK will be happy
<nxvl> NCommander: it has the rpath issue, don't it?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> The first thing you need to install is a patch system
<NCommander> DOn't inline patches!
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> dholbach: about Bug 249195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249195 in supertux "Please apply supertux-0.3.1-gcc43.patch from Fedora" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249195
<nxvl> dholbach: since i coincide on "Stick to upstream does" i don't think it fits here
<nxvl> dholbach: that would be the case in wich upstream makes inline changes, and then i will also suggest not to use a patch system, but if they have no changes, not inline nor using a patch system i will find better to use one
<dholbach> nxvl: as I said: upload it, it's fine with me
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-6had - awesome group to killing CDBS!
<NCommander> yaya
<nxvl> dholbach: yeah, more than with that specific patch i just wanted to discuss the concept of what we have been discusing on the report
<dholbach> nxvl: to me it's additional work to add a patch system for little gain - if you forward the change a debdiff is pretty self-explanatory
<dholbach> ... as a debdiff
<nxvl> but DD don't usually accept debdiff, in my experience they prefer separate patches
<NCommander> And inling causes issues cause its easy to forget patches exist
<NCommander> Like the issues we're having with courier
<dholbach> if you use submittodebian, you can just remove the debian/changelog portion and it will be the "separate patch"
<dholbach> NCommander: in this case there is no other patch
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, but now it is one minor patch, then someone will add another bitsize one
<nxvl> and so on until you have a big delta
<nxvl> all on inline changes
<NCommander> If you want to see what the end result is, we've been trying to resolve FTBFS on courier for two weeks
<NCommander> (two MOTUs, and an MOTU wannabe)
<nxvl> i prefer, on my packages at least, to have a patch system even if i don't use it
<nxvl> just prepare my package to use it in case i need it in the future
 * NCommander is a dpatch lover
<dholbach> nxvl: I understand what patch systems are for and I like having one too (if it's not a package where I keep the full source in bzr myself)
<dholbach> did somebody forward the change to Debian already?
<nxvl> i asked nhandler to do it i haven't check if he did
<dholbach> I take no offense if you just take it and upload it
 * nxvl checks
<NCommander> nxvl, WOOO< courier successfully built!
<dholbach> it's just what I had done
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> now lintian fun
<NCommander> have fun
<nxvl> NCommander: it's officialy the longest changelog i have ever seen
<NCommander> Go read GCC's changelog when a new upstream release happens ;-)
<nxvl> in a debian package i mean
<nxvl> i have read longest
<NCommander> Can you add under mine "Resolved FTBFS in maildrop/webmail"?
<NCommander> No, I mean the GCC debian changelogs
<nxvl> NCommander: btw, i gived up with courier before becoming a motu
<NCommander> what made you pick it up again?
<nxvl> done
<NCommander> Thanks
<NCommander> or at least point me at it to make it build?
 * NCommander is the FTBFS terminator
<nxvl> NCommander: i won't change your name on the signature
<nxvl> i will just work on it and signed it
<NCommander> how are you susposed to sign it for upload ;-)
<nxvl> it's your upload
<nxvl> you deserv it
<NCommander> you still have to modify the changes file
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> ...
 * NCommander is an idiot
<NCommander> I forgot about debsign
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> I'm not a DD
<nxvl> and debuild -k
<NCommander> Not for lack of trying
 * Hobbsee throws a dead fish at NCommander 
<nxvl> NCommander: which of the deb's has the rpath issue?
<nxvl> all of them?
<NCommander> pretty much
<NCommander> just download the debs, and run lintian ;-)
<NCommander> (debuild -nc is your friend)
<nxvl> rpath is an amd64 only issue
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> Whatever ;-)
<NCommander> Hobbsee, why the dead fish?
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> http://ipv6experiment.com/
<NCommander> They updated
<Hobbsee> NCommander: it wanted some excitement.
<NCommander> *shoves it downs Hobbsee's shirt*
<nxvl> holly! lintian output is bigger than the changelog
<Hobbsee> oy!
 * Hobbsee attacks NCommander with the Long Pointy Stick, and makes him like the fish.
 * NCommander counterattacks Hobbsee by blackmailing her with the videos from the hidden cameras I installed in her flat
<Hobbsee> you mean the one that doesn't exist? OK then :P
<NCommander> crap
<NCommander> Flaw in my plan
<Hobbsee> now get back to revu hacking!
 * NCommander bites Hobbsee 
<NCommander> No REVU for you
<Hobbsee> excellent!
 * NCommander gives Hobbsee the REVU hacking virus
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  good thing i have immunity.
<NCommander> Meh
<NCommander> Its called being Austrillian, you can handle anything
<NCommander> Plagues, famine, desert, living in Austrillia
<orly_owl> fair dinkum
<Hobbsee> you forgot the snakes.
<Hobbsee> (don't we have 9/10 of the most deadly snakes here?)
<NCommander> Not all men are snakes :-P
<NCommander> You just need to meet one with the right ./configure flags
<Hobbsee> i meant teh ones without legs...
<NCommander> I'll be sure to pass that along to the amputees ;-P
<NCommander> nxvl, having fun with the lintian?
<nxvl> NCommander: almost
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> At least we got it to build ;-)
<NCommander> the server team will be happy
<nxvl> yep
<NCommander> I didn't even know what made me crack open the diff
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> http://xkcd.com/149/ :-)
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> wrong window
<NCommander> argh
<warp10> Hi all!
<Iulian> Good morning
<nxvl> heya!
<nxvl> NCommander: i think i finished
<NCommander> yay
<NCommander> upload it
<nxvl> i'm building it
<nxvl> once finished and rechecked i will upload it
<nxvl> i need to drop all the .conffiles
<NCommander> lok
<NCommander> time for me to lie down
<nxvl> since all of the files inthere were duplicated
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> i will in a bit also
<nxvl> after uploading this
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> NCommander: oh btw, now that you are working on REVU, it will be nice to include the short description of each package (as in mentors.d.n)
<dholbach> hi warp10, hi Iulian
<Iulian> Hello Daniel.
<warp10> heya dholbach
<SolarWar> Hey guys, I created a package of an application that does not compile well against Intrepid on AMD64 (or so launchpad's ppa would deem) , but it already has two advocates and has been uploaded the launchpad Queue- what should be done in this case?
<SolarWar> should the upstream be notified?
<\sh> fix the amd64 problem?
<SolarWar> its not the fault of the packaging
<\sh> so? fix the problem anyways ;)
<SolarWar> i can do that, but does that mean I would it would have to go through a whole new review cycle?
<SolarWar> since the upstream's version number would be bumped..
<\sh> SolarWar: if the packaging is ok..no...
<\sh> SolarWar: any buildlog of the amd64 problem?
<SolarWar> hrm, one sec
<tuxmaniac> hello motus. I have uploaded a .diff.gz fixing bug 207760. It would be great if someone reviews and sponsors the upload. thanks in advance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207760
<wgrant> YokoZar: I think I segfaulted upon reading your latest blog post.
<YokoZar> wgrant: hehe
<YokoZar> wgrant: what's great is I edited it a bit too
<directhex> wgrant, it makes much more sense than most of ubuntuforums though
<wgrant> directhex: This is true.
<directhex> considering the ubuntu forums top the google results for "banning mono", i'm wondering how many brains would explode if i linked to some medibuntu-ffmpeg-linked silverlight extensions for ff3 i compiled
<RAOF> directhex: OOOOOh.  Yes please!
<directhex> RAOF, got anywhere i can host them without being arrested, beaten, and chopped into small chunks by the software patent police?
<RAOF> No, not really.
 * RAOF is off to see _The Bank Job_.  Let's hope it's cool.
<directhex> it's impressively small, for what it is
<huats> morning !
<nullack> Hi MOTUS. Id just like to give a heads up please that gstreamer according to their schedule (http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/wiki/ReleasePlanning2008) should have the gstreamer ffmpeg plugin ready soon. They have frozen their ffmpeg synch
<Laney> Can someone please unsubscribe u-u-s from bug #244531? Thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244531 in xaos "Please sync xaos 3.4-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244531
<emgent> Laney: done.
<Laney> thanks emgent
 * Laney runs
<Laney> (sneaking on irc from work, naughty naughty)
<tuxmaniac> huats: hi. I think you have missed the .diff.gz in the bug for gcalctool you just reported
<huats> tuxmaniac: no
<huats> tuxmaniac: it is willingly
<emgent> dendrobates: heya
<huats> I need the bug number to close it...
<huats> so I need to create it...
<tuxmaniac> huats: aah ok :-)
<huats> I'll attach it now
<dendrobates> emgent: hi
<tuxmaniac> I just made it Incomplete
<tuxmaniac> sorry for that
<huats> tuxmaniac: no pb
<huats> tuxmaniac: I've set it to in progress
<tuxmaniac> hello motus. I have uploaded a .diff.gz fixing bug 207760. It would be great if someone reviews and sponsors the upload. thanks in advance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207760
<jorgenpt> So, I've packaged some new software
<jorgenpt> And I'd like to include it into as many versions of ubuntu as possible, i.e. in the official repositories.
<jorgenpt> (and possibly in Debian as well)
<jorgenpt> Any tips on where I go? :)
<jorgenpt> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<jorgenpt> Anything else I should look at?
<joaopinto> jorgenpt, do not expect it to be available on Intrepid, late timing :P
<jorgenpt> Is it not possible to add packages to e.g. hardy etc now?
<joaopinto> no, new packages only go into new release repositories
<jorgenpt> Darn, is that the same for Debian?
<joaopinto> no idea
<jorgenpt> Ok, thanks.
<jorgenpt> Topic says 'Intrepid open, go wild!  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html' - what does that mean?
<directhex> yes, it's the same for debian
<directhex> but you might be able to use the partly-official debian-backports project
<directhex> what works AGAINST you right now is that debian has entered freeze, for the upcoming release of Lenny, so no new anything is accepted
<Syntux> Good day
<kirkland> with respect to REVU, is there any way to configure an email address, such that I receive email each time someone adds comments to my packages(s)?
<wgrant> kirkland: Not at this point.
<Syntux> do we have list of ubuntu cd packages? just the ones included in the ISO image?
<joaopinto> Syntux, apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop
<persia> Syntux: Yes, but constructing it is a bit tricky.  You'd probably do best to use germinate: the source of the ubuntu-meta package may help.
<persia> joaopinto: There are a few apps not in ubuntu-desktop but shipped on the CD (e.g. ubiquity).
<Syntux> interesting, wouldn't looping over a mounted iso hunting for .deb do the trick ?
<geser> Syntux: does the jidgo files (or the list file) on cdimages.u.c help you?
<Syntux> geser, sure! thank you for the tip :-)
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi geser
<Riddell> cody-somerville, \sh, jdong, TheMuso: motu-sru dudes, bug 255307 needs review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255307 in pymsn "Can't connect to msn accounts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255307
 * cody-somerville puts on rubber gloves.
<cody-somerville> bigon, ping
<bigon> cody-somerville, pong
<emgent> moin
<cody-somerville> bigon, I'm looking at your patch.
<Riddell> laga: which bug tracks that mythbuntu-control-centre update?
<Riddell> laga: that's a big patch and certainly not minimal changes
<bigon> cody-somerville, my patch?
<cody-somerville> bigon, for bug #255307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255307 in pymsn "Can't connect to msn accounts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255307
<Riddell> laga: why the change in versioning scheme?
<cody-somerville> bigon, Why did you remove the dependency on python-adns for the SRU?
<bigon> cody-somerville, the dependency is not needed anymore
<cody-somerville> bigon, but you're doing an SRU, no?
<bigon> cody-somerville, the patch drop the need of this dependency
<cody-somerville> Okay, I see what you're doing.
<bigon> (the patch has been taken from upstream)
<Riddell> laga: actually ignoring the .po file changes it's not too bad a size, but still needs motu-sru approval
<cody-somerville> bigon, Do you use pymsn yourself?
<laga> Riddell: it has motu-sru approval.
<laga> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythbuntu-control-centre/+bug/241402
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241402 in mythbuntu-control-centre "Mythbuntu control center VNC setup freezes if & in password" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bigon> cody-somerville, I'm not really, but last time I checked it was working
<cody-somerville> bigon, Can you test and confirm the patch is working?
<bigon> cody-somerville, I will try tonight
<bigon> pymsn doesn't work at all now
<Riddell> laga: groovy, accepted
<laga> Riddell: yay!
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: if you have some time can you please look at bug 207760 , review the .diff.gz attached and sponsor if found OK?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207760
<DktrKranz> tuxmaniac: I don't use geda-* packages, is there any way to test if fix is good?
<ScottK> I love the way Launchpad sticks with their commitment to let us know in advance what's coming, "Iâll post details of whatâs new in 2.1.8 here after weâve made the release."
<laga> i also love the "behind the scenes" podcast. i'm multitasking, i don't want to concentrate on audio.
<stefanlsd> Anyone know hat happened to cvs.fedoraproject.org?
<zul> yeah its down
<stefanlsd> any mirror or anything of it?
<geser> ScottK: do they still only announce what's new/interesting for projects, bug triagers and translators?
<geser> I seldom find there any changes listed interesting for MOTUs/core-devs
<ScottK> Apparently they don't announce at all until after we've already experienced the 'joy' of the new release.
<ScottK> I still haven't gotten over their latest intersection of U/I design and a random number generator.
<geser> ScottK: the announcements are only done, so you can check if you found all new "features" already :)
<ScottK> Right.  At one point we had some agreement we'd have warning.
<ScottK> Generally I don't seem to have trouble noticing the ones I care about.
<persia> I sometimes do, depending on how gradually they are introduced.
<mwiegand> hello, is it still possible to add a package to intrepid? or rather, replace an existing package?
<ScottK> Most of the ones I seem to run into are immediately and obviously painful.
<mwiegand> to be specific, I'm one of the developers of OpenVAS, the still-GPL Nessus fork. openvas-client and libopenvas1 have already replaced their nessus counterparts, so it might make sense to replace nessusd and nessus-plugins as well
<Riddell> stefanlsd: fedoraproject seems to have had notable security issues
<stefanlsd> Riddell: mm. yeah. was a pretty good repo for patches.
<Riddell> mwiegand: if someone does the packaging that should be fine
<mwiegand> Riddell: sounds good, what would be the deadline for that?
<stefanlsd> Would this be a candidate for removal - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/showimg/+bug/258593
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258593 in showimg "Please merge showimg 0.9.5-1.3 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,New]
<stefanlsd> I contacted the upstream author and he says it not usable with KDE4 and doesnt have time to work on it...
<geser> stefanlsd: have you asked the kubuntu people about their opinion on it?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: We still have the libs for KDE3 in Intreppid.
<ScottK> Does it work with that?
<Riddell> mwiegand: feature freeze is 28th of this month
<Riddell> ScottK: no, it needs libkonq which we don't have any more from kde 3
<geser> ScottK: have we? kdebase from kde 3.5 seems to be gone
<Riddell> so it probably needs to go
<stefanlsd> I spoke to Riddell and its not he plan :)
<stefanlsd> *the
<ScottK> Right, if it needs the libkonq stuff it's a good candidate for removal.
<mwiegand> Riddell: okay, thank you, I'll see what I can do
<ScottK> geser: kdebase yes, but we still have the kdelibs.
<ScottK> At least some of them.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: problem is with libkonq4 which no longer exists. and libkonq5 depends on kdelibs5
<ScottK> Yes.  We have many of the other libs but not that one.
<stefanlsd> ScottK: and i put a couple hours into trying to get it to build against libkonq5 but no luck - and upstream responded saying it doesnt work with KDE4 and they are not working on it.
<ScottK> Sounds like it's time for it to go then.
<ScottK> Much better than leaving broken cruft in the archive.
<stefanlsd> kk. thanks.  I think we're gonna get a couple of these that dont upgrade to KDE4 properly.
<persia> Getting them removed in intrepid, when we still have hardy to fall back upon, is likely best.
<stefanlsd> i subscribe u-u-s as normal for a removal right?
<geser> yes
<stefanlsd> thanks :)
<DktrKranz> k0p: FYI umit binary just came out of NEW and it's on its way to the mirrors.
<k0p> DktrKranz, hi
<k0p> FYI?
<DktrKranz> "For Your Information"
<k0p> oh ok
<stefanlsd> does anyone have any suggestion on this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gpa/+bug/160751
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 160751 in gpa "gpa: new upstream version 0.7.6 available" [Wishlist,In progress]
<k0p> DktrKranz, is it on mirrors? :D
<DktrKranz> k0p: in some hours starting from now
<stefanlsd> its been a while. should i rather look at building it for debian. it seems that ubuntu prefers merges?
<k0p> DktrKranz, :D thanks
<NCommander> ScottK, ping
<ScottK> NCommander: Pong
<NCommander> ScottK, courier was fixed
<ScottK> Yes.  I saw the scrollback.  Thanks.
<NCommander> it was not a problem
<k0p> DktrKranz, awesome dude :D
<k0p> thanks for all
<DktrKranz> k0p: well... archive administration is not my business, I just noticed it :)
<k0p> DktrKranz, yeap. Thanks for it :D
<bddebian> Heya folks
<ScottK-laptop> Heya bd.
<ScottK-laptop> Urgh.
 * ScottK-laptop tries again.
<ScottK-laptop> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK-laptop
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: You still around?
<NCommander> Yeah
<bddebian> ScottK-laptop: How is your DD coming along?
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: If I could figure out why libc can't be essential, I'd be in business.
<ScottK-laptop> Still on T&S Part 1.
<ScottK-laptop> I had a combination of two hardware failures the I didn't catch all the implications of for my backup strategy mean I had to try it again.
<NCommander> ScottK, libc isn't essential because it doesn't need to be, and so it can be replaced if the soname is ever updated; because essential packages and their deps are automatically installed by debootstrap, its not needed
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Thanks.
 * ScottK-laptop scribbles notes.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, if I could get my DD to talk to me, I'd be in business with respect to becoming a DD
<NCommander> he's been idle eight days on OFTC
<NCommander> I think he's dead
<broonie> NCommander: you're not supposed to hand out the answers!
<broonie> But there's more to it than that, anyway.
 * NCommander rereads ScottK's statement
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> You don't see any answers!
 * NCommander hides
<NCommander> broonie, ok, what else is there to it? (I only know enough about Essential in the way debootstrap works to gather packages)
<azeem> NCommander: you're about a year idle on that patch you sent to bug-hurd, e.g.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I would like to have us have a ubuntu-motu and core-dev keyring packages in the archive and I was thinking you might be interested in using your new LP foo to help make one.
<NCommander> azeem, er, well, the hurd moves sloely ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> broonie: I already knew that much anyway.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, wait, what?
<broonie> NCommander: Well, you need to depend on it anyway for the versioning.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Like the debian and debian-maintainer keyring packages, but for Ubuntu.
<NCommander> Oh!
<NCommander> Can't you simply grab the keyrings of ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-core-dev?
<ScottK-laptop> Due to DNS cache poisoning, I find myself increasingly wanting to have the gpg keys of Ubuntu devs locally, just in case.
<ScottK-laptop> From where?
<NCommander> I have a script to do extactly this :-P
<ScottK-laptop> I haven't thought about this much, maybe it's trivial.
<NCommander> We used it with REVU
<ScottK-laptop> Excellent.
<NCommander> Hold on, I need to go fishing
<NCommander> ScottK, its a python script
<ScottK-laptop> Perfect.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, http://paste.ubuntu.com/38806/
<NCommander> YOu'll have to tweak the GPG settings to your keys
 * ScottK-laptop looks.
<ScottK-laptop> Right.
<NCommander> azeem, as for my patch to bug-hurd, er well ........ *no answer*
<NCommander> bah :-P
<NCommander> ScottK, BTW, ctrl-c doesn't quite work with this script since it only kills a single GPG instance, not the three or four which will be constantly running
<ScottK-laptop> That should do it.  Thanks.
<NCommander> (ugly, I know)
<joaopinto> anyone here worked on the gambas2 package ?
<DktrKranz> joaopinto: some QA efforts, but I know a guy who knows it very well
<joaopinto> the examples are not working, and now tested a trivial db insert on mysql, and it's inserting a void value row
<joaopinto> I will need to ask on their ML if that is a known bug fixed on a newer release
<DktrKranz> gah, exactly the same problem he faced
<joaopinto> if a trivial insert is broken, the package is broken :P
<NCommander8> less
<NCommander8> I seemingly come in duplicates
<DktrKranz> joaopinto: he has a "workaround", even if it's definitely ugly
<joaopinto> DktrKranz, but do you know if it was already fixed upstream ?
<DktrKranz> joaopinto: AKAIK, it's something related to ubuntu/debian packaging
<joaopinto> gambas is a nice option for VB lovers
<DktrKranz> since compiling it from scratch shows no issues
<emgent> we sync this package from debian
<directhex> gambas is a vb6ish compiler?
<joaopinto> directhex, not a compiler, a full IDE
<directhex> joaopinto, righty. who actually wants to write new apps in VB? O_o
<emgent> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gambas2/gambas2_2.7-1/changelog
<sistpoty|work> hm... I could write a package manager with gambas *g*
<joaopinto> directhex, I do  not want to start a flamewar, but as far as I Visual Studio is one of the most efficient RAD suites, and is nice to have an open source with similar features
<directhex> joaopinto, monodevelop?
<joaopinto> sistpoty|work, not a package manager, but probably a database interface
<sistpoty|work> heh
<joaopinto> directhex, I am also playing with monodevelop, I need to learn Mono/GTK#, Basic is an acquired language :P
<directhex> i wonder whatever happened to getting mono-basic into debian
<directhex> someone started packaging it, but there were license problems iirc
<directhex> Matthias Jahn or Jelmer Vernooij were involved, whoever they may be
<NCommander> Man, I need something to do
<NCommander> Like something to package
<directhex> NCommander, mono-basic!
<NCommander> mono-basic?
<directhex> mono-basic! for VB.NET!
<NCommander> *twich*
<joaopinto> NCommander, make sure the gambas2 package works as expected
<joaopinto> I am checking the 2.8 version changelog, and there are some important bug fixes, not sure they are fixed on the debian 2.7 version
<directhex> i wonder how many brains would explode on ubuntuforums if they noticed little things like "Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation." in the occasional /usr/share/doc/*/copyright
 * NCommander decides to work on some FTBFSs
<geser> NCommander: http://builder.ubuntuwire.com:9998/dist/intrepid/arch/i386/failed is that enough for a start? :)
 * NCommander switchs to the amd64 page
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: One comment on your gpg script.  Please don't "#!/usr/bin/env python".  Use "#!/usr/bin/python" instead.
<NCommander> THat script isn't mine :-P
<NCommander> It was one of the old REVU scripts which was replaced
<NCommander> However, its successor does that ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<NCommander> and requests for things tro be fixed?
<NCommander> *any
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: I haven't seen a lot of evidence on the forums of brains, so the explosion risk I judge as low.
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, the size of explosions would be low. the number of explosions may be somewhat larger
<NCommander> I should do some REVU hacking ...
<joaopinto> NCommander, implement the email sending on comments :P
<NCommander> sure, I can do that
<stefanlsd> Can anyone give me some advice regarding the .desktop file.  I've created it - how do i get it to install.  I've added  dh_desktop  - but i see that is only done if it contains a MimeType.  Is there a standard way for doing this?
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: install it to /usr/share/applications
<sistpoty|work> (literally *g*)
<sistpoty|work> or use .install file, or cp
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: i've just created a .install file.   do i then use   dh_desktop-call?
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: dh_install will install files from .install files
<stefanlsd> sistpoty|work: kk. thanks. will try it
<sistpoty|work> stefanlsd: dh_dekstop will only take care for postinst snippets to register the destkop file
<salutis> hi guys, can anyone check my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=thinkingrock ? I fixed what I can and I don't know if there is something to do
<Hew> Hey guys. Pidgin 2.5.0 has just been released. What is the appropriate process to get this into Ubuntu? I don't think it's needs-packaging, because that seems to be for new packages.
<james_w> Hew: you are right, it's not needs-packaging
<james_w> the first thing would be to file a wishlist bug against the package tagged "upgrade"
<james_w> if you wish to do the work then you can prepare an updated package, attach the .diff.gz to the bug report and seek sponsorship
<Hew> james_w: Sounds good. I'm not a packager myself, I was just wondering what the correct process was, but that seems simple enough. Thanks :-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Your fixes to courier build twice in a row too.
<NCommander> O_o?
<NCommander> Neat
<NCommander> Unexpected bonus
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah, I was pleasantly suprised.
<NCommander> er, I mean, I just do good work ;-)
 * NCommander ducts
<NCommander> jk :-)
<stefanlsd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/259371 - looks like a cool app, but doesnt include on licensing / author information in the src download.  sourceforge says its under GPL. is this kinda thing ok to package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259371 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Smartcam " [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: Is there a license file in the tarball?
<stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: nope
<ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: Then it'll get rejected by the archive admins.
<ScottK-laptop> You might contact upstream and suggest they add it.
<stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: kk. Is there a reference I can point upstream too regarding what should be in a GPL package?
<ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-howto.html
<ScottK-laptop> stefanlsd: It lists a full copy of the license as a should, but for Ubuntu it's a hard requirement.
<stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: thanks for finding that for me.  Will post to upstream
<huats> hi guys
<huats> I am packaging a new software, and I am noticing that the install target does not install the .pc file (thus it creates it in the src root dir). Can I simply install ? Or do I have to ask upstream to deal with that
<huats> I'll tend for the earlier, but I'd rather ask :)
<nullack> Hi MOTU's :) I have a quck question, can someone help me please
<sebner> ping cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> sebner, pong
<sebner> nullack: don't ask, just ask
<nullack> I need to be able to see what commands are used in building libdvdnav, not just the source, how do I do this on the packages.ubuntu? thanks
<sebner> cody-somerville: congratulations! surely a dreamjob,hmm? (I hope I'm not that late)
<cody-somerville> sebner, hehe, thanks :-)
<ScottK-laptop> siretart: What is the license on the old REVU gpg key script?  It doesn't say and your LP project mentions both GPL and BSD.
<sebner> cody-somerville: may I ask you got to canoncial (in that young age) ?
<nullack> Ive got it here but I dont want the source, just the build command options
<nullack> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/libdvdnav4
<cody-somerville> sebner, How I got to Canonical?
<sebner> cody-somerville: yes ^^ (sry for my bad english)
<cody-somerville> sebner, Well, I was at UDS and Mark approached me and asked me if I'd be interested in working for Canonical. Beyond that, I have no idea :-)
<nullack> sebner: He wore a suit at UDS :) haha just joking
<geser> nullack: look either at debian/rules in the .diff.gz or at the build log in Launchpad
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: He went to UDS and wore a suit the entire time while the rest of us were dressed more like typical hackers.
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> cody-somerville: pretty cool story :D
<huats> +1 for the suit
<nullack> geser: Will do Geser. Ill check out the buildlog
<cody-somerville> :-]
<nullack> I thought Cody looked good in his suit
<nullack> Congrats by the way on your new opportunity Cody
<cody-somerville> Thanks :]
<laga> but why did you wear that suit?
<laga> congrats, btw
 * geser waits for the first call for pix :)
<nullack> lol @ laga
 * cody-somerville attempts to slowly slip out the back.
<cody-somerville> emgent, ping
<emgent> cody-somerville: i'm little bit busy, feel free to query me or mail me -- thanks
<ScottK-laptop> cody-somerville: Send a self portrait in the suit with the mail.
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<cody-somerville> : P
<sebner> cody-somerville: can I have a poster of you and the suit ( well, at least the suit) :P
<nullack> OMG, you blokes are still going on about the suit. Cody isnt going to forgive me for starting it heh
<ScottK-laptop> nullack: I didn't start about the suit because you commented.  I was there.
<nullack> Good, Im off the hook :)
<nullack> Is anyone online in MOTU that can comment on bug 250524?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250524 in synaptic "[Intrepid] Synaptic should depend on apt-xapian-index" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250524
<nullack> Synaptic should depend on apt-xapian-index
<nullack> Cody is doing it for Xubuntu but theres a small uprising about having it in Ubuntu as well
<nullack> If space is the issue with Ubuntu Im happy to comment in the bug on that
<slytherin> nullack: I think it should be recommendd instead of depends
<geser> nullack: you might also want to talk with mvo about it (he's in #ubuntu-devel)
<nullack> Ty, Ill do that.
<SolarWar> hi, I packaged an application that fails to build on 64bit machines due to a minor casting error- the packaging is fine however, after fixing this casting error and sending the patch upstream, do i need to resubmit the package to review? if not, what is my next step?
<mok0> SolarWar: did your package pass review?
<SolarWar> yes it did
<mok0> SolarWar: was it uploaded?
<SolarWar> yes
<SolarWar> the build failed after upload
<mok0> SolarWar: you need to create a bug in LP, then attach a debdiff
<siretart> ScottK-laptop: if it is written by me (and I think it is), it's BSD
<siretart> ScottK-laptop: why do you ask?
<ScottK-laptop> Because I think I may make use of it and I want to make sure it's marked correctly.
<SolarWar> mok0, should i assign the bug to my self?
<ScottK-laptop> SolarWar: If you are going to produce a fix, then yes.
<ScottK-laptop> Once you've attached the debdiff, set it to Triaged and unassigned and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
<SolarWar> i see, will some one need to approve the diff?
<SolarWar> ah
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  uus will do that.
<SolarWar> whats uus?
<mok0> SolarWar: yes, untill you've attached the debdiff, then you subscribe u-u-s
<ScottK-laptop> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<SolarWar> ahhh thank you very much, I will go fix this now :)
<ScottK-laptop> It's a team of MOTU that sponsor stuff.
<SolarWar> will this package make into intrepid still?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  The package is in.
<SolarWar> :) yay!
 * SolarWar enjoys being the package + upstream author 
<ScottK-laptop> Alternatively because you are upstream, fix it in a new upstream release and attach the .diff.gz for that to a bug.
<mok0> Shouldn't that be ScottK+laptop?? ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> Did you get your restricted data troubles worked out?
<mok0> ScottK: The upstream author hasn't answered :-(
<ScottK> OK.  Good luck with that.
<mok0> I will give it a few days, then repackage the tarball
<NCommander> ScottK, I assume your pleased with the courier fixes?
<sebner> NCommander: freat work
<sebner> NCommander: but isn't * Removed patch for maildrop (unneeded AFAIK, and breaks the build now) the same as  * Resolved FTBFS in maildrop/webmail?
<NCommander> I wanted to be clear I zapped a patch
<NCommander> (its not clear that there was a patch in the first line due to the damn inlining of patchs)
<sebner> NCommander: ^^, I was the last uploader of courier :P
 * NCommander takes a peek at the changelog
<NCommander> YOur the debian upstream?
<sebner> NCommander: last ubuntu uploader
<NCommander> *phew*
<sebner> NCommander: debian maintainer is hiding -.-
<NCommander> nxvl is going to try and teach the upstream how to use dpatch
<NCommander> (I can't see that going well ...)
<NCommander> Considering upstream didn't even zap patches after they were merged upstream
<sebner> NCommander: useless. DM is known to be non collaboratorive
 * NCommander nomiates we remove this package from autosyncing
<NCommander> It's really crufty
<sebner> why autosync?
<NCommander> Isn't there a blacklist you can put a package on to stop it from getting automatically synced/merged when there is a new upstream release?
<sebner> NCommander: there is one but courier is a merge and  not a sync
<NCommander> My main problem with that package is when I resolved the FTBFS
<NCommander> the lintian output was longer then the ****** changelog
<sebner> ^^
<NCommander> Fixing that FTBFS was *fun*
<NCommander> Just like ripping my eyes out of their sockets
<sebner> ^^
<NCommander> I'm suprised Debian doesn't require like a recertification on T&S every two-three yeras
<NCommander> Probably do loads for unmaintainable packaging
<sebner> wb apachelogger ;-)
<NCommander> sebner, the 0.60-1ubuntu1 changelog has to be one of the longest ones in the archive
<sebner> NCommander: unfortunately :(
<NCommander> Three maintainers, 60+ changes, and lintian fixes across the board
<NCommander> Did nxvl add a patch system so we can at least keep it cleanish?
<sebner> NCommander: I don't think so
<apachelogger> thx sebner
<NCommander> well, there was just one left inlined
<NCommander> and nxvl was nice enough to give me credit for the upload ^_^
<sebner> hrhr
<NCommander> sebner, did you take a crack at that FTBFS?
<sebner> NCommander: I just did a testbuild and saw it but haven't got time to investigate further (though I suck a fixing FTBFS ;))
<Laney> What's the significance of "0c2a" in a library package name?
<james_w> Laney: it's from the C++ ABI transition
<jorgenpt> Any way to find out why a package was removed from ubuntu repositories?
<geser> Laney: it went twice through the C++ ABI transition
<jorgenpt> libscw-0.1{-2,-dev}, specifically.
<james_w> jorgenpt: you can find out from the removal bug report if you can find it
<Laney> righto
<jorgenpt> It existed in feisty and gutsy
<james_w> jorgenpt: if it's still in Debian then there's another clue you can get from the blacklist
<geser> jorgenpt: is the source pkg still in the archive?
<geser> if not, check http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<jorgenpt> geser: How do I check that?
<jorgenpt> It's only in debian etch (stable)
<jorgenpt> ------------------- Reason -------------------
<jorgenpt> (From Debian) RoM; obsolete; no rev-deps
<geser> so you know already the source package name (scw)
<geser> check https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scw to see that it's also removed from Ubuntu
<jorgenpt> Ah, I guess so. :)
<jorgenpt> In hardy it's "Superseded", what does that mean here?
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=421224
<ubottu> Debian bug 421224 in ftp.debian.org "Please remove scw from the archive" [Unknown,Closed]
<geser> good question, I'd except "deleted" there
<Laney> Anyone free for a quick review of goocanvasmm on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm - C++ bindings for goocanvas (cairo canvas widget for gtk+)
<ScottK> sebner: Aren't you glad NCommander is now touched it last on Courier?
<ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
<ScottK> sebner: If Debian has inlined their patches, it doesn't really help us to put them in a patch system.
<NCommander> O_o;
<NCommander> Shoot
<NCommander> If anything is broken
<NCommander> I'll get the blame
<sebner> sebner: courier is something nobody likes ,hmm?
<sebner> NCommander: of course! :P
<ScottK> NCommander: Yeah.  Giving you the "credit" wasn't pure gift.
<NCommander> Bah
<ScottK> Mind you, you deserve the credit for sorting it out.
<ScottK> nhandler: dget usually works with launchpadlibrarian.  Why make it fail all the time?
<nhandler> ScottK: Do you have a link to the bug you are talking about? I did it a while ago
<ScottK> nhandler: I just saw it in intrepid-changes
<nhandler> Yeah, I think it just got uploaded
<ScottK> Bug #247172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247172 in devscripts "patch dget to suggest dgetlp" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247172
<ScottK> nhandler: Do you know who uploaded it?
<nhandler> ScottK: It looks like Colin Watson uploaded it
<ScottK> I see that.
<nhandler> What would you suggest doing ScottK? Is there a certain instance where dget fails to download from launchpadlibrarian.net?
<ScottK> Not sure. Could you discuss it with Colin and see.  I think forcing a failure where one isn't needed is wrong.  I can see pointing to dgetlp after a failure as a fallback.
<nhandler> Yeah, I'll talk to Colin about it. We could also simply display a warning when the user tries to download from launchpadlibrarian.net using dget that says "If dget fails to download the files from launchpadlibrarian.net, you should try and use dgetlp, which is provided by ubuntu-dev-tools"
<ScottK> That'd be fine.
<nhandler> Before I upload a new debdiff, I'll see if Colin has a better idea about how to fix this bug.
<Raybuntu> Can somebody tell me, what Debian Standards-Version and Debhelper version I should add for Intrepid packages?
<ScottK> Raybuntu: Standards version should be 3.8.0 and the debhelper version should be the lowest version needed to build the package, but at least 4.  The file compat should have the major version number of debhelper you require.
<slytherin> Raybuntu: Debian standards 3.8.0. debhelper 5 in my opinion.
<slytherin> at least 5
<Raybuntu> ok thx I added 3.8.0 and debhelper 6!
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: compat 4 is not deprecated.
<ScottK-laptop> Raybuntu: Why 6?  Are there debhelper 6 features your package requires?
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: I thought it was
<Raybuntu> no it packs on 5 too
<Raybuntu> oh ok then I should chaned it to 5!
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: No.  1 - 3 are deprecated.  Packages at compat 3 need to be updated.
<Rinchen> hello MOTU, anyone around with a few minutes to help me understand a debian python packaging issue?  Admittedly I'm not a packaging expert.
<ScottK-laptop> Raybuntu: All supported Ubuntu versions have debhlper 5, so if it's 5, you needn't actually supply a version, just make compat 5.
<ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: What's up?
<Rinchen> Hiya ScottK
<Rinchen> I think I have a flaw in my control or rules files that I can't seem to understand
<Rinchen> I'm packaging this:  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rinchen/+junk/d-rats
<Rinchen> It builds:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~rinchen/+archive
<Rinchen> but when you install the .deb it doesn't install the python programs
<Rinchen> (I'll paste)
<Rinchen> http://paste.ubuntu.com/38888/
<Rinchen> I had an issue with the rules file
<Rinchen> I tried to do it as per the new debian policy and it kept insisting on needed the make -f in there so I put it back in
<ScottK-laptop> The .deb is empty except copyright and changelog
<Rinchen> Yes, that's my problem :-)
<ScottK-laptop> Let me grab the package and have a look.
<Rinchen> That would be wonderful if you could point me in the right direction
<Raybuntu> When I create an source-package for Intrepid in hardy can i disregard the Lintian Warnings: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid & newer-standards-version 3.8.0 (current is 3.7.3)?
<joaopinto> Raybuntu, sure
<Raybuntu> ok thx
<ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: setup.py in your tarball is empty, so cdbs has no idea what to do.
<ScottK-laptop> Your rules are AFAICT fine.
<Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, hmm interesting. Ok.  The original setup.py was windows-only (py2exe)
<Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, time for me to figure out how to write a setup.py I guess. :-)   Thanks for the sanity check.
<ScottK-laptop> Or, more precisely you removed the contents of if in packaging it.
<Rinchen> ScottK-laptop, the upstream dev just hands out the tarball for Ubuntu folks. I wanted to see if I could help him package it. I'm still learning how to package python items.  Good experience for me.
<Rinchen> Thanks again for your help.
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  The setup.py he provides won't help you much
<ScottK-laptop> Rinchen: Also, Ubuntu tends to prefer pycentral to pysupport.
<Rinchen> ok, I'll switch that too.
<ScottK-laptop> It's not critical, but doko might look at you funny at the next meeting of the secret Canonical conspiracy if you don't.
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<Rinchen> lol
<Raybuntu> Can anyone make a quick review on my Package on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=get-you
<Laney> Raybuntu: What does it do?
<Raybuntu> I just wanna know if it's good? I tried to build and it works! I just wanna know if i forgot something
<cody-somerville> Raybuntu, there are several problems with it
<Raybuntu> What problems?
<cody-somerville> Raybuntu, Package synopsis and package long description lines shouldn't exceed 80 characters.
<Raybuntu> ok i will change it thx
<Raybuntu> is there anything else wrong?
<zul> whois the wine maintainer?
<ScottK> zul: YokoZar
<zul> YokoZar: ping
<zul> thanks
<Rinchen> Has anyone used http://code.google.com/p/debianpackagemaker/ before? It's available on getdebs.  Wanted to know if it was evil or should I give it a spin for PPAs.
<stefanlsd> What are the options we use when building a diff for a patch file.  diff -u  is def one...
<ScottK-laptop> I always use -ruN
<stefanlsd> ScottK-laptop: thanks. easy to remember also
<jpds> I use: -Nurp
<ScottK-laptop> Also easy to remember.
<NCommander> I usually use -uEawb
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> and sometimes -d
<ramses-sv> #ubuntu-es
<NCommander> Hrm
<jpds> ramses-sv: Con: /join
<NCommander> I think I can spell deweb with those options :-)
<NCommander> -dewabE
<cody-somerville> I always use -Nur because I think "run backwards and the first letter is always capitalized"
<ramses-sv> jpds; I'm sorry :)
<jpds> ramses-sv: No pasa nada. :)
<stefanlsd> im looking at upgrading pidgin. i think im reaching here. but its a good learning excercise anyways
<ma10> any xulrunner or swt-gtk expert here? I'm trying to debug a crash (bug 259533)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259533 in xulrunner-1.9 "Azureus(vuze) crashes on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259533
<stefanlsd> wow. pidgin is actually building
<NCommander> yay
<LaserJock> nhandler: so was there a particular reason for adding ubuntu-dev-tools as a Recommends of devscripts?
<jpds> nhandler: Why did you add u-d-t to devscripts recommends when u-d-t is in universe?
<jpds> LaserJock: For dgetlp.
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes, why?
<LaserJock> dget works just fine
<nhandler> jpds and LaserJock: I did the patch a while ago. I probably added it because we are telling the user to use dgetlp.
<nhandler> LaserJock: Not in all cases
<jpds> bug #247172 LaserJock
<asomething> Bug #247172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247172 in devscripts "patch dget to suggest dgetlp" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247172
<nhandler> I am planning on talking with Colin Watson about a better way to patch it
 * jpds gets some popcorn and wattches "the beating".
<LaserJock> I don't see why it's needed
<nhandler> One solution ScottK and I came up with would be to simply suggest the user try dgetlp if dget fails to download from launchpadlibrarian
<LaserJock> when do we give out librarian links to .dscs ?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Anytime you try to grab a source package via a Launchpad link.
<LaserJock> there's a much more simple solution available
<LaserJock> ScottK: which links?
<LaserJock> the source pages don't use librarian
<Laney> The only dscs from LP that don't work from me are PPA ones
<Laney> I think those use librarian
<LaserJock> those should also work, if they don't it's a bug
 * ScottK too, but regular archive .dscs use librarian too.
<LaserJock> ScottK: where?
 * ScottK gets an example.
<ScottK> I see.
<jpds> nhandler: As Recommends get installed too, we'd have to move u-d-t to main.
<LaserJock> ok, I do see it in the PPA, but that should be a bug
<ScottK> For the regular archive there's a non-librarian path that 303's to librarian that isn't present in PPAs.
<LaserJock> nhandler: it also adds 70 new packages to install
<nhandler> jpds: Another option would be to simply suggest u-d-t
<ScottK> Which is fine.
<LaserJock> ScottK: right, I had then put in dget'able links for source packages
<LaserJock> *them
<ScottK> LaserJock: Which is a great help.
<LaserJock> we just need to have PPAs work too
<ScottK> Dunno.
<ScottK> Use dget to get official source packages easy.  Use dget to get PPA crack doesn't work.  Bug or feature?
<nhandler> However, if we move u-d-t to suggests, the script should not die when the user tries to use a launchpadlibrarian url. It should only warn them that it might not work (or tell them to use dgetlp only on an error)
<Laney> nhandler: The proper fix is to make LP work
<LaserJock> but pulling in 70 more packages and some from Universe seems like overkill :-)
<ScottK> I'm certainly not writing a MIR for u-d-t.
<LaserJock> nhandler: you can have it die and tell them to use dgetlp from ubuntu-dev-tools
<cprov> ScottK: missing-feature, actually
<nhandler> ScottK: I don't think getting u-d-t into main is the right solution
<ScottK> If it's just a PPA, then I htink it's clearly not our problem.
<nhandler> LaserJock: That is what it currently does
<Laney> But not all librarian dscs are broken, are they?
<LaserJock> nhandler: then why depend on ubuntu-dev-tools? people can figure that out for themselves
<ScottK> cprov: At least the PPA source packages are still signed so I can verify it hasn't been tampered with.  Of course that has other problems.
<ScottK> Laney: Yes.
<Laney> Yes they are or yes you're agreeing with me?
<LaserJock> Laney: if it comes from librarian it won't work because the URLs are different for each file in the source package
<ScottK> The "problem" is that PPA packages don't have usable URLs.
<nhandler> LaserJock: It isn't a depends, it is a recommends. And we can easily move this to a suggests
<Laney> Ah yes, I understand
<ScottK> nhandler: Since recommends are installed by default, it causes the same problem.
<LaserJock> nhandler: but in Intrepid Recommends = a installed dependency so it needs to be taken into account
<nhandler> Yes, I understand that now ScottK and LaserJock.
<cprov> ScottK: I think 'dgetable' PPA urls and signed archives are orthogonal features. Don't you agree ?
<cprov> ScottK: we can easily implement the former in the next cycle.
<ScottK> cprov: Yes.  But I think signed archives are far more important.
<ScottK> cprov: Personally, I won't use PPA until it's fixed.
<cprov> ScottK: agreed.
<ScottK> I was sort of OK with it until the current round of DNS cache poisoning attacks.
<LaserJock> nhandler: anyway, it's not a big deal, I just wanted to point out that it pulls in an awful lot of new packages and the dget issue should probably be handled differently
<nhandler> LaserJock: You are correct, u-d-t should definitely not be recommended.
<cprov> ScottK: yes, awful, signed-ppas will be prioritised accordingly.
<nhandler> And IMO, the best way to fix this issue would be to get dget to work with launchpadlibrarian
<ScottK> nhandler: You have it exactly backwards.
<stefanlsd> help about - Pidgin 2.5.0
<nhandler> ScottK: Are we able to submit patches for Launchpad/Launchpadlibrarian?
<stefanlsd> :)
<Laney> No(t yet)
<LaserJock> nhandler: the issue has been fixed for non-PPA packages, cprov has said that it's a bug they can work on for PPAs
<ScottK> nhandler: No.
<ScottK> nhandler: We can't chase every proprietary system that does dumb stuff.
<nhandler> LaserJock: I was not aware cprov was a canonical employee.
<Laney> nhandler: /whois cprov ;)
<nhandler> Laney: I just did that after your last message :)
<ScottK> nhandler: Are you going to feel bad if I revert this change?
<nhandler> ScottK: Not at all. I did this change over a month ago. I have learned a lot since then.
<LaserJock> ScottK: perhaps just moving ubuntu-dev-tools to Suggests would suffice?
<LaserJock> nhandler: did your patch actually call dgetlp ?
<nhandler> LaserJock: No it did not
<ScottK> That and remove the hack that would make get cry.
<nhandler> ScottK: We could change the 'die' to a 'print' or 'warn'
<ScottK> LaserJock: I don't think having a workaround for a temporary thing like this is appropriate.
<LaserJock> yeah, I was just thinking about that
<LaserJock> it should be fairly temporary
<ScottK> I've about got it done.
<stefanlsd> Anyone feel like testing Pidgin 2.5.0 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/259453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259453 in pidgin "Please upgrade to pidgin 2.5.0" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ScottK> Reverted.
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK
<nhandler> ScottK: Is there any reason to even suggest u-d-t?
<stefanlsd> Replaces: pidgin (<< 1:2.1.1-2)  - what does the << in this case mean?
<ScottK> nhandler: Yes, because u-d-t in many ways extends devscripts for Ubuntu specific scripts, so it's generally a good suggestions.
<nxvl> ScottK: courier is fixed!! thanks to NCommander
<LaserJock> ScottK: I agree
<ScottK> nxvl: Yes.  It even builds twice in a row.
 * NCommander wakes up
<NCommander> Man, I fix one package, and its like I make people happy
<NCommander> Weird
<nxvl> NCommander: that's why i love Ubuntu Community
<ScottK> You gotta find happiness where you can find it.
<ScottK> From another (non-Ubuntu) list: "I give up. Hire someone with basic unix/linux knowledge."
 * DktrKranz will be happy when someone will push not FTBFSing gcl + axiom
<NCommander> ??
 * nxvl points to NCommander 
<NCommander> ScottK, O_O;?
<NCommander> uh oh
 * NCommander activates stealth mode
<ScottK-decoy> Who's this NCommander?
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: dude, I would owe that person a drink ;-)
<ScottK> Of course now I know all the channels we have in common since I highlight on ScottK
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, well... I have recipe for gcl, but axiom would still fail
<NCommander> togl
<NCommander> *rofl
<NCommander> at least on freenode
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: yeah, it's a beast
<NCommander> LaserJock, point me to your FTBFS log
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: Debian was talking about maybe switching away from gcl for axiom but I'm not sure how that'll go
<LaserJock> I believe the axiom maintainer is also the gcl maintainer :-)
<DktrKranz> camm maguire, yes
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, as I wrote in axiom FTBFS bug, compile errors are due to changes included in a gcl revision (-36 IIRC)
 * LaserJock has somewhat of a dislike of gcl
<DktrKranz> I tried to revert them all, but there are still issues
<DktrKranz> and I think I've stressed PPA too much with gcl testing :(
<NCommander> link?
<NCommander> (I'll look to see if I can fix)
<LaserJock> I remember wgrant going through like 1000+ lines trying to find a bad patch in gcl so we could fix another package
<DktrKranz> NCommander, bug 163603
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163603 in axiom "FTBFS: axiom_20050901-9ubuntu1 on hardy/i386" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163603
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> It's a hardy FTBFS?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, still happens in intrepid
<NCommander> What a beast
<NCommander> (axiom)
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, see my comment #3 and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16838329/gcl_2.6.7-42ubuntu1.4_source.changes for possible solutions.
<sebner> DktrKranz: congratulations old boy :P
<NCommander> so both gcl and axiom FTBFS?
<NCommander> Or is one causing the other?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, gcl is broken itself
<NCommander> how is it broken?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, long time FTBFS
<NCommander> (lisp in general is broken, but be more specific)
<DktrKranz> gcl_2.6.7-42ubuntu1.4 "fixes" it, but axiom doesn't like ti
<DktrKranz> *it
<NCommander> How did it fixs
<NCommander> Bah
<NCommander> I'll fix it
<NCommander> rightly
<NCommander> Give me the short version of this packages hisotry
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/ \o/ \o/
<DktrKranz> aloha sebner
<sebner> DktrKranz: congratulations ;P
<DktrKranz> NCommander, just keep in mind axiom FTBFS with gcl 2.6.7-34 and newer
<DktrKranz> tested ;)
<DktrKranz> sebner, danke
<NCommander> *twich*
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> -34?!?!?!?!?!
<DktrKranz> -34
<sebner> DktrKranz: thumbs up :)
<NCommander> I
<NCommander> I
<DktrKranz> with -33 axiom compiles
<NCommander> ....
<NCommander> o_o;
<sebner> NCommander: by me xD
<DktrKranz> with -34 and newer... no
<NCommander> O.o;
 * LaserJock hands NCommander some pills
<NCommander> how specifically does axiom FTBFS with -34?
<LaserJock> to calm the convulsions ;-)
<sebner> DktrKranz: emmet said: Main sponsor for a long time ... for me? ^^
<sebner> LaserJock: xD
<NCommander> well?
<DktrKranz> sebner, probably ;)
<sebner> hrhr
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'll grab log... just a sec
<NCommander> I found one, but it looks out of date
<DktrKranz> NCommander, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16369974/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.axiom_20050901-9ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is accurate
<DktrKranz> but I have more on my PPA :)
 * NCommander winces
<NCommander> what have you done w.r.t to debugging this
<NCommander> What is causign code.o to not exist?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, there's a (closed) bug on BTS too, but not so useful
<DktrKranz> well... I did pbuilder login and installed several gcl versions, -33 worked, -34 no more
<NCommander> doesn't always mean the issue is with gcl
<DktrKranz> I just changed that
<NCommander> ???
<DktrKranz> remaining packages were not touched
<NCommander> ok, Axiom is compiling
 * NCommander looks at axiom's changelog
<NCommander> I might have found a possible cause
<NCommander> Wow, this package hasn't been updated in two years
<DktrKranz> NCommander, see also debian 458878
<ubottu> Debian bug 458878 in axiom "axiom: FTBFS: cp: cannot stat" [Serious,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/458878
<DktrKranz> but I'm unable to reproduce it on sud
<DktrKranz> *sid
<doctormo> Hmm, lots of people keep on asking me to get my package in the repos; although a week of REVU has done nothing. any advice?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> That ain't happy
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I got a new issue for you
<NCommander> >Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<joaopinto> doctormo, get into the waiting queue :P
<DktrKranz> NCommander, welcome aboard! ;)
<DktrKranz> I received *tons*
<NCommander> That is a common issue I take it?
<NCommander> wait
<NCommander> It randomly segfaults?!
<DktrKranz> with gcl/axiom, very common
<NCommander> o_O;
<NCommander> o.o;
<NCommander> That's screwed up
<DktrKranz> it *shouldn't* segfault if compiled with "--enable-locbfd --disable-statsysbfd"
<DktrKranz> but I didn't investigate
<NCommander> on axiom or gcl?
<DktrKranz> gcl for sure
<NCommander> It didn't segfault the second time around
<NCommander> It
<NCommander> ... has a ****ing race condition
<NCommander> Oh ...
<DktrKranz> cool!
<NCommander> Please, tell me these patchs are not inlined
<NCommander> -rw-r--r--  1 mcasadevall mcasadevall  14M 2008-05-02 22:16 gcl_2.6.7-36.1.diff.gz
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> O_O;
<NCommander> 14M FOR A FREAKING DIFF FILE?
<NCommander> THATS BIGGER THAN THE SOURCE ITSELF
<doctormo> joaopinto: that seems a little odd, it's not like I've made a patch of some existing thing.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, hehe... go out for a walk when "debuild -S && dput" ;)
<joaopinto> doctormo, I have a package waiting for review for about 1 month
<NCommander> It only took two minutes
<NCommander> For the
<NCommander> love of
<NCommander> Ugh
<DktrKranz> NCommander, *please* do not look at gclcvs, then :)
<NCommander> It is 70MB ... incompressed
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> For
<NCommander> the
<NCommander> love
<NCommander> of god
<doctormo> joaopinto: are they still outstanding?
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> That does it
 * NCommander deletes what's here
 * NCommander starts froms cratch
<NCommander> This package is non-maintainable
<NCommander> It should be removed from the archive in its current condition
<joaopinto> doctormo, I am assuming that most of the packages will not get into Intrepid, UVF is getting closer
<DktrKranz> NCommander, it seems to me Debian is another upstream, camm is a gcl developer, AFAIK
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> I discovered that
<DktrKranz> and, since they didn't release a major release, changes are in .diff.gz
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> That's just plain sick
<DktrKranz> just minor and insignificant :)
<NCommander> Not really
<DktrKranz> NCommander, also keep in mind if you push gcl, rdependent package *must* be rebuilt
<NCommander> This trainwreck is unmaintable
<DktrKranz> heh, I spent some days on it ;)
<NCommander> This is a case of delete and restart
<NCommander> OH GOD, HE PATCHES THE CVS FILES
 * NCommander actually is debating filing a removal request for this package
<NCommander> By defintion this is buggy and unmaintable
<LaserJock> dude, look at the rdepends though
<NCommander> I realize that
<NCommander> No
<DktrKranz> IIRC, there are five packages which rdepend on gcl, and they have issues
<NCommander> I'm going to simply work from a knowning working
<NCommander> gcl
<NCommander> and throw out this mess
<NCommander> upstream seems to have stalled
<slangasek> why are you going to do that instead of talking to the Debian maintainer?
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> I don't think there is hope for the maintainer
<NCommander> (well, I need to figure out really how bad this is before I do anything, then I'll ask him to help me figure out what the heck is what)
<wgrant> Well, I think they're likely to do something about it soon, as Lenny has to release eventuall.
<NCommander> The diff file is 70MB uncompressed
<wgrant> +y
<NCommander> I see at least six or seven configure scripts
<NCommander> (full configure scripts) atuom4te.cache folders
<NCommander> Ugh
<DktrKranz> wgrant, debian seems not affected, at least I wasn't able to reproduce FTBFS
<slangasek> gcl is a massively difficult package, regardless of how it's currently being maintained; unless you have some particular long-term attachment to gcl, I don't see why Ubuntu would want to be saddled with your complete repackaging of gcl, which we then can't go to the Debian maintainer for help with?
<wgrant> Lovely.
<NCommander> meh
<NCommander> I dunno
<NCommander> But this is just hurting my brain
<wgrant> I touched gcl once a couple of years ago to fix a big Dapper maxima bug, and that has taught me never to go near it again.
<NCommander> why ... why does gcl have binutils from debian in its source code?
<NCommander> why?!
<NCommander> *sigh*
<NCommander> Ok, it doesn't compile out of the box
<NCommander> ok
 * NCommander inhales and exhales
<doctormo> joaopinto: maybe it's time for an alternate repo, the offical one is glogged
<joaopinto> doctormo, well, you can use a PPA until the package is accepted, hopefully on Intrepid+1
<wgrant> Or get it in Debian.
<wgrant> That's going to make everybody happier.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, have you tried to talk with upstream?
<emgent> hello
<joaopinto> wgrant, is that a guarantee that it will be reviewed/accepted faster than it does on REVU ?
<wgrant> Starting alternate repositories is a sure way to get induce a huge amount of animosity between you and the development community, and is likely to remove much chance of many of us reviewing your packages.
<wgrant> s/get //
<wgrant> No. Nothing is guaranteed in situations like this.
<wgrant> That's not how community-based distributions work.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, not yet. I was trying to figure out if it was a ubuntu specific issue (toolchain, or some) or something in gcl/axiom itself, but answer is not clear to me
<joaopinto> wgrant, well, so you are suggesting to have extra effort, and eventually get into the same issue :)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, if the compiler is RANDOMLY segfaulting, by design thats an upstream issue.
<NCommander> (unless its an Ubuntu specific patch causing it, which there are none of)
<wgrant> joaopinto: But then we don't have to maintain it like we do with all of the other drive-by uploads we have. And Debian would get it too. Everybody wins.
<DktrKranz> my main question is why in debian never segfaults
<DktrKranz> (on my box, at least)
<joaopinto> wgrant, so why not just shutdown REVU :) ?
<wgrant> joaopinto: Oh, I'd like to.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, are you running amd64 or i386?
<DktrKranz> i386
<NCommander> From what I can gather, it only FTBFS on Debian on amd64
<NCommander> And if thats the case, its possible the issue is that gcl is not 64-bit clean :-/
<joaopinto> it is not very nice to get a "Try Debian" after spending time into getting a package into Ubuntu, as per the documented processes
<DktrKranz> so, why it does with ubuntu? does it dislike debian derivatives?
<wgrant> DktrKranz: There's no 100_melt_ubuntu_developers_minds.dpatch?
<DktrKranz> wgrant, I removed it... it has typos
<NCommander> I
<NCommander> Oh, god
<NCommander> He upgraded binutils
<NCommander> THat's why the patch file is 70MB
<NCommander> O______________________________O;
<LaserJock> NCommander: take a breath :-)
 * NCommander inhales
<NCommander> *twichs*
<NCommander> why does it build its own binutils
<jpds> NCommander: It's not the end of the world.
<DktrKranz> oh... do not forget bug 227878 too ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227878 in gcl "gcl failed to upgrade from Ubuntu 7.10 to 8.04." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227878
<DktrKranz> emacs related
<NCommander> This might be even too much for me
<NCommander> omh
<NCommander> *omg
<NCommander> this package requires gettext
<NCommander> The check for gettext is commented it, and it compiled the one shipping in binutils
<joaopinto> NCommander, are you actually going to fix it, or just complaining :P ?
<NCommander> I don't even know where to begin
<NCommander> Its disrupting my ability to code
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, fix it without complaining is almost impossible, trust me :)
<NCommander> joaopinto, seriously, download this source package, and take alook
<NCommander> DktrKranz, why are you trying to fix this package?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, basically QA
<NCommander> (beyond the fact that FTBFS are evil, most people would give up looking at this horror)
<DktrKranz> I've no interest in axiom/maxima/gcl itself/whatever
<joaopinto> NCommander, no thanks, I am looking into gambas2,it's  more interesting :P
<NCommander> no
<NCommander> There can't be a package worse than this
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, my gambas2 guy replied to me
<NCommander> My mind would go boom
<joaopinto> DktrKranz, that mysql issue is not fixed on the intrepid package yet
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, he told me 2.8 svn 1503 fixed some mysql issues
<joaopinto> I don't believe they would keep a release with such a critical bug, I am building from source now
<joaopinto> hum, 2.8 is building on amd64
<NCommander> What's wrong with gambas2?
<joaopinto> hey, and it runs
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, if you're successful, maybe we can fix it in intrepid as well
<joaopinto> NCommander, a mysql insert, is inserting duplicated invalid records
<joaopinto> NCommander, and the examples do no run, just display an error
<joaopinto> but I don't care about the examples for now
<joaopinto> DktrKranz, well, the good news about 2.8 is that it runs on amd64 bits, the last time I have check Intrepid it was not installable their, I mean, using apt
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, I asked to remove amd64 from hardy (2.0 was not 64bit ready) 2.8 should be fine
<joaopinto> erm, I am getting the mysql bug from the original source
<joaopinto> time to file a bug report upstream
<DktrKranz> oh... still not fixed then
<joaopinto> or better, since I am new to it, asking on the users ml, to make sure I am not doing something really dumb :P
<DktrKranz> time to go and fix gcl... erm... sleep :)
<DktrKranz> c u
<YokoZar> zul: ping back
<directhex> what's the correct way to document use of bootstrapping binaries in a source package?
<LaserJock> anybody know of any good tools for submitting bugs to debian other than reportbug/submittodebian ?
<azeem> directhex: is that allowed these days?
<azeem> LaserJock: mutt
<azeem> or rng
<directhex> azeem, what's the alternative?
<LaserJock> azeem: was rather trying to avoid mutt but ... ;-)
<azeem> directhex: I thought the buildd admins were supposed to bootstrap those
<azeem> but that was a couple of years ago
<directhex> hm, i should check with the debian people, they're smart.
<azeem> they can upload binary packages
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> directhex: depends on what you mean by "debian people" as there are several here, including azeem ;-)
<directhex> the last person to pass judgement on this one was joerg@debian.org. i'm trying to bring it back from abandonment
<azeem> "it"?
<directhex> mono-basic. it was rejected on two counts, one for including dodgy unredistributable code in orig.tar.gz, one for including binaries
<directhex> the former is easily fixed, it's only a unit test
<azeem> how many arches are supported?
<directhex> azeem, it's architecture:all, but mono in debian is only for amd64, arm, armel, i386, ia64, powerpc, s390, sparc
<azeem> what kind of binaries does it have then?
<directhex> bytecode assemblies. sorta like java .class files
<tgm4883_laptop> If a MOTU has some time.  I'd appreciate a REVU on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythbuntu-log-grabber
<azeem> directhex: I guess on Debian you could just bootstrap yourself and upload an Arch: all packages Build-Depending on itself
<azeem> but dunno, maybe joerg@d.o would reject that as well
<directhex> azeem, that appears to be the way it works in debian. messy and vile, but functional
<directhex> ish. maybe.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-20
<directhex> then again, i'm pretty sure mono bootstraps from binaries
<directhex> hm, perhaps not
<zul> YokoZar: why does wine depend on winbind?
<directhex> is the current winbind a version that JustWorks(tm) and gives nice shiny zero-config name resolution when in the same samba workgroup as other people, or one of the delightful versions that barfs in epic style if you're not in an active directory domain? i've lost track
<directhex> azeem, okay, it seems you were right on how to do it in debian. with any luck the same applies for ubuntu
<ScottK> directhex: In Debian binary uploads are required.  In Ubuntu it's source uploads that are required.  I suspect that's relevant to any bootstrapping problem.
<directhex> ScottK, i'm more confused than i was before i started :/
<ScottK-laptop> In Debian you can effectively bootstrap something that's arch all yourself by doing a binary upload.  In Ubuntu you need a buildd admin to do it because we only upload source packages.
<ScottK-laptop> Not sure if that helps or not.
<directhex> the source package should b-d on itself?
<RAOF> directhex: I _seem_ to recal a double-upload scenario; one uploads a source package containing the binaries required to bootstrap, then uploads another source package with a b-d on the archive package.  I could be mis-remembering, though.
<directhex> RAOF, it seems a single line change is enough to make this package use the system vbnc instead of the bootstrapping one
<emgent> night.
<RAOF> directhex: That sounds convenient.
<directhex> okay, next question. if the build system requires modification in order to not use files removed during get-orig-source, is it appropriate to put appropriate modifications to the source package in get-orig-source to make the package "clean", or should the orig.tar.gz contain a broken build system which is later fixed in debian/rules (e.g. with dpatch)?
<ScottK> emgent: WRT your libavg merge, isn't the new ffmpeg already uploaded?
<tbielawa> hello everyone
<bddebian> Hello tbielawa
<dholbach> good morning
<stefanlsd> hi daniel :)
<dholbach> hiya stefanlsd :)
<stefanlsd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin/+bug/259453 - i built the new pidgin :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259453 in pidgin "Please upgrade to pidgin 2.5.0" [Wishlist,In progress]
 * orly_owl is not impressed with the rift in the Pidgin community.
<StevenK> orly_owl: There's a rift?
<stefanlsd> With empathy i assume
<orly_owl> Or was a rift. I don't know.
<orly_owl> Tge textbox size issue.
<orly_owl> *The
<orly_owl> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/30/1822237&from=rss
<RAOF> orly_owl: Oh, you mean Pidgin vs funpidgin?  Heh.
<persia> orly_owl: There are similar debates for every project, with more or less press.  Essentially, it comes down to "sensible defaults" or "allow users to change everything".  Each project has it's own opinion about how this debate should be resolved, but there's no clear right answer.
<LaserJock> persia: I thought the right answer was whatever I came up with? ;-)
<RAOF> That's a lie.  My answer is always the clearly right answer!
<LaserJock> RAOF: no *mine* is!
 * persia determines that the point has been made, and wanders off to do something else
<orly_owl> hehe
<orly_owl> I only care because I might recommend pidgin to someone.
<LaserJock> orly_owl: and why would that stop you?
 * jdong logs in via iPhone just to join what seems to be a pidgin war
<orly_owl> Well, I guess it doesn't really.
<orly_owl> It seems they will still be developing Pidgin.
<RAOF> Of course; it wasn't a *developer* split.
<orly_owl> No, thankfully.
<RAOF> Except that some potential contributors went and forked funpidgeon.  For however long that lasts.
<jdong> well I don't think it negatively affects pidgin anyway
<jdong> it's a healthy part of the FOSS development cycle
<jdong> (pardon -ECONTEXT, iPhone scrollback reading demands more patience than present at 1AM)
<nxvl> dholbach: good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: spanish getting started video has a lot of viewers
<dholbach> yeah, you're popular :)
<nxvl> today i saw another spanish portal publishing the video
<nxvl> http://www.vivalinux.com.ar/articulos/video-ubuntu-master-of-the-universe.html
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> it seems that a lot of portals are making echo to the video
<dholbach> :-)
<tgm4883_laptop> If a MOTU has some time.  I'd appreciate a REVU on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythbuntu-log-grabber
<nxvl> time to sleep
<nxvl> read you later!
<Iulian> Good morning.
<\sh> dholbach: this harvest thing looks cool...but regarding the patch series for certain packages, e.g. from fedora, without the explicit documentation what they patched and why those links don't make much sense, don't you think? can you link somehow to the VCS of their spec files (for rpm distros??) ,-)
<dholbach> \sh: if you click on such a link you will see the commit message which is probably as much as you'll get
<\sh> dholbach: well, the real description e.g. for patches in rpm distros is inside the .spec file...a commit message like "build against 3 layer OOo
<\sh> " doesn't bring you anymore clue about what the patch actually is doing..
<dholbach> \sh: most commit messages had quite a good description themselves, but I can see what I find
<\sh> while "and adjust for OOo3 3 layer packaging" gives you more clue about what they did..the link is just one more "print" away ,-)
<\sh> dholbach: for fedora, the .spec file is named "<packagename>.spec" and can be viewed via cvs.fedora... in the root tree of the source package (means, just remove the .patch file location and add a <packagename>.spec cvsview link)
<dholbach> \sh: can you file a harvest-data bug for that?
<\sh> dholbach: can do that :)
<dholbach> gracias
<\sh> dholbach: bug #259655
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259655 in harvest-data "please add a link to the .spec file (e.g. for fedora patches)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259655
<dholbach> gracias
<dholbach> so who's going to run a session at Ubuntu Developer Week? jcastro, bobbo, norsetto, james_w and I are going to :)
 * didrocks is eager to attend to those sessions ;)
<didrocks> even if there is no session from soyuz team, what pity :/
<dholbach> didrocks: I'm pestering them already :)
<dholbach> I'd like to announce UDW next week
<dholbach> so it'd be nice if we filled some slots soon :)
<dholbach> who volunteers?
<didrocks> dholbach: I'm sure you had :)
 * ajmitch looks for someone to volunteer
<DktrKranz> dholbach, me too, together with sbeattie
<dholbach> DktrKranz: nice... pick a slot before your preferred time is taken! what are you guys interested in talking about?
<dholbach> DktrKranz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<DktrKranz> dholbach, SRU verification and related stuff
<dholbach> nice one
<dholbach> we have so many questions about our processes from newcomers, so I appreciate you guys taking the time to talk about that one
<DktrKranz> I already hosted one for SRU process last time, this one we'll finish the process and try to coinvolge people in stable release QA
 * dholbach hugs DktrKranz
 * DktrKranz hugs dholbach back
<dholbach> so... who else will run a session? :)
<DktrKranz> mmh, pretty like http://tinyurl.com/5j5ldn :)
<didrocks> I think that Daniel have really to make a shortcut to paste this question at different time of the day :)
<DktrKranz> ... or to implement a ircbot which does the job
<DktrKranz> wakeupMOTU!bot
<didrocks> not a bad idea, with a big header on harvest...
<dholbach> hang on, I'll try a new tactic now...
<dholbach> didrocks: why don't YOU give a session at UDW?
<dholbach> didrocks: you could give one about "make your sponsors happy - things to bear in mind when writing patches"
<dholbach> or something
<dholbach> didrocks: you could even give it together with somebody else
<dholbach> Iulian for example :)
<dholbach>  . o O { I know Iulian is awake right now }
<DktrKranz> multiple u-u-s queues, divided by alphabetical order of the contributor
<dholbach> didrocks and Iulian are so quiet now :-)
<DktrKranz> dholbach, do not wake up s_ebner or n_handler :)
<dholbach> ok nevermind... I was kidding (it's still a good idea though) - don't feel obliged to
<didrocks> dholbach: sorry I was away :)
<dholbach> didrocks: so... like the idea?
<didrocks> dholbach: the issue is that I am (momentanly, I hope), not in a company that really bother with opensource and presently, I am not officially on IRC :)
<didrocks> So, the session can be cut off for an unexpected meeting
<didrocks> oh, I didn't see the timetable
<didrocks> it can be ok so at 18.00 UTC
<didrocks> let me think about a session I can give
 * dholbach hugs didrocks
<dholbach> didrocks: be sure to ask a few others, maybe you can deliver a session together
<dholbach> that'd be awesome :)
<didrocks> I will get warp10 into it :) (mentor/mentee ;))
<dholbach> rock! :)
<didrocks> or huats ^^
<dholbach> good thinking
<warp10> dholbach: I was planning a MOTU school session about QA with LaserJock. We could move it into the UDW, probably
<dholbach> warp10: that'd be nice - just decide on a topic and grab a slot soon :)
<warp10> didrocks: nice, let's work on it ;)
<dholbach> yoohoo!
<dholbach> I knew I could count on you guys :)
 * dholbach continues pestering the Soyuz folks
<didrocks> hum, caught :)
<didrocks> dholbach: you really have to now ;)
 * dholbach doubles his efforts
<warp10> dholbach: my only problem is that I am not sure I will be here during UDW (vacation). I'll probably know something more precise within a few days
<dholbach> thanks warp10
<warp10> didrocks: heh! :)
<didrocks> warp10: \o/
 * DktrKranz clones dholbach, it is perfectly legal in FLOSS development
 * warp10 is happy to see both of his mentee delivering a session at UDW :) 
<DktrKranz> bah... nautilus refuses to start today :/
<DktrKranz> and gedit too
<slytherin> dholbach: what kind of sessions are planned?
<dholbach> slytherin: this is the preliminary schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
 * didrocks is working hard so that huats gets involved into it :)
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> hey dholbach
<huats> :)
<dholbach> hi huats
<huats> how are you daniel ?
<dholbach> good - how 'bout you?
<huats> great too
<Iulian> dholbach: Sorry, I was afk - jogging.
<slytherin> dholbach: I can be assistant to a java packaging session if there is enough demand for such session. And I think geser is appropriate person to conduct such session.
<dholbach> slytherin: maybe you could try to round up a bunch of folks of #ubuntu-java and see who of them can attend the session too?
<slytherin> dholbach: I will propose it in our weekly meeting
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<geser> slytherin: what? I'm more a universe generalist not a java packaging expert. You know more than me about java packaging (or even how to tweak a java package to build again).
<Iulian> dholbach: Well, yes. I'm thinking to run a session with someone, not sure about what. Do you have any idea if bobbo is available?
 * Iulian looks at /Prep
<slytherin> geser: But I have no experience of conducting session in developer week. Considering that you are more experienced in overall packaging I thought you might be ineterested.
<dholbach> Iulian: bobbo is already giving a session, you could just ask him and see if he has an interest in the session you're intending to run
<dholbach> slytherin: you could check out a session log of last time's developer week
<slytherin> will do
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/ still has links to the logs of last time
<dholbach> if you want to demonstrate something or do a session tutorial-style, best just plan 30 minutes of "show" (or content), people ask a lot of questions :)
<dholbach> and it's a lot of fun
<dholbach> lots of excited new people
<Iulian> dholbach: What session is he giving?
<Iulian> Ah
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep - Introduction to BZR -- DavidFutcher (bobbo)
<Iulian> Yes, I saw
 * dholbach is very happy to see james_w and bobbo delivering talks about the bzr goodness :)
<dholbach> please all grab slots soon :)
<treeform> hi all
<treeform> how difficult is it to include a new package in ubuntu repository?
<cyberix> treeform: Not that hard, but it may take time.
<cyberix> treeform: Is the package available in Debian?
<treeform> cyberix: no people just get the deb from our site
<treeform> we build many deb's and rpms
<NCommander> treeform, how do they build the debs?
<NCommander> Do they do something like checkinstall/cmake's cpack, or do they do it the right way?
<treeform> i am not sure i did not code the process
<cyberix> treeform: If you are planning to get your package to Debian, then you should do that first.
<treeform> it looks like it uses dpkg-deb -b linuxroot
<cyberix> treeform: If you are planning to go Ubuntu only, you should upload your package to REVU for review
<cyberix> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
<treeform> no we are planning to go to a everyone who will take us
<geser> treeform: do you have also source packages or only the .debs?
<treeform> we have source too
<cyberix> license?
<treeform> BSD
<cyberix> in that case
<treeform> the problem of including is originally was that it had its own license
<cyberix> first get it to debian
<cyberix> then request Ubuntu to get it from Debian
<treeform> which was kind of wishy washy in some places
<treeform> cyberix: oh
<azeem> treeform: dpkg-deb -b linuxroot looks fishy
<treeform> it sees if there is /usr/bin/dpkg-deb or /usr/bin/rpmbuild and uses one of them
<treeform> i dont think it follows any policy
<cyberix> treeform: "In some cases, the same upstream software is packaged separately in Ubuntu and in Debian, though this is to be avoided unless there is a justifiable reason to do so."
<treeform> cyberix: hmm there is probably isnt
<treeform> but i think we plan to build them separate
<treeform> i dont know if there is any good reasons on doing so
<cyberix> treeform: This is how you ask Ubuntu to get the package from Debian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<treeform> do you know if any other distros work this way?
<cyberix> I think gnewsense is based on taking a snapshot of Ubuntu every once in a while and then modifying that to produce their product.
<cyberix> getting the package to debian is a good start
<cyberix> because there are lots of distros that are rooted to debian
<cyberix> so negotiating with them will be easier once the package is in debian
<treeform> oh
<treeform> i did not know that
<cyberix> Then there are distros that are not based on Debian
<cyberix> suse, fedora, slackware, ...
<treeform> yep
<cyberix> I'm not an expert on those
<cyberix> treeform: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gldt.svg
<treeform> it looks like we built fedora, suse, debian and ubuntu
<cyberix> Are you doing some sort of special support for Ubuntu?
<cyberix> Something that would not fit into Debian?
<treeform> i dont know
<treeform> cyberix: i know some times deb pack's work on ubuntu
<treeform> but i did not know that was the desirable way to go
<cyberix> treeform: It is desirable that the same source package work for both
<treeform> source
<treeform> oh they get compiled differently?
<cyberix> treeform: Ubuntu builds its own binary packages at Launchpad from the debian source packages
<treeform> ok
<cyberix> so that is what will happen to your source package, if your sync request gets accepted
<treeform> the build process is some thing to be improved
<treeform> cyberix: thanks you been a great help
<treeform> i have to go now
<treeform> hopefully ill get every thing included
<pyc> hi, how do i make the rules file, pass a parameter in the configure  , if it detects the architecture is amd64?
<cyberix> treeform: no problem
<pyc> or rather how do you detect the 64 build in the rules file?
<NCommander> find $SRCDIR -name *.o
<NCommander> Something like that
<gnomefreak> what package should lintian be run against
<slytherin> gnomefreak: run lintian *_source.changes and then lintian *_i386.changes
<NCommander> slytherin, I thought if you ran it against the *_i386.changes (assuming it wasn't abinary only build), it hit both the debs and the source package
<gnomefreak> slytherin: thats what i thought thanks
<slytherin> NCommanderI don't think so
<stefanlsd> sebner: thanks for syncing :)
<Iulian> dholbach: I am thinking to give a session about introducing MOTU, similar to what nxvl gave in the last UDW. What do you think?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, any progress with gcl? :)
<dholbach> Iulian: excellent!
<dholbach> :)
<Iulian> dholbach: Great. I'll talk to bobbo to see if he's interested, if not I think I can handle.
<Iulian> dholbach: That shouldn't be so hard :)
<dholbach> ROCK ON - just make sure to grab the session slot on the wiki you're interested in
<Iulian> dholbach: I think I should give it in the first day...
<dholbach> sounds good
<Iulian> Cool then.
<huats> does anybody know what is a mann ?
<ogra> huats, how about a bit more context ?
<huats> ogra: sorry
<huats> :)
<huats> ogra: i am making a new package
<huats> and as far as I see, it is not building man but mann
<ogra> ah
<huats> and the associated type is foo.n
<huats> and I've never seen that
<ogra> well, mann is german for a male person otherwise :)
<huats> so I am wondering wondering :)
<huats> ogra: oh
<huats> that is not related I think :)
<ogra> *g*
<huats> but thanks :)
<Iulian> dholbach: Added myself.
<Iulian> dholbach: Please poke me if the time isn't the right one.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, well, ATM, I'm debating if I can take that much pain
<jorgenpt> set backspace=indent,eol,start
<jorgenpt> Eh, ww
<dholbach_> Iulian: looks good
<Iulian> Ok
<xerxas> hi all
<xerxas> I would like to package a soft which : 1/ a simple file in python , 2/ need an init.d
<xerxas> is there some instructions to do that ?
<xerxas> python packaging ? init.d scripts instructions ?
<xerxas> dholbach,  Hi !
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
 * directhex continues his making-life-complicated effort from yesterday
<directhex> what's the right way to deal with REVU on a package that needs bootstrapping?
<sistpoty|work> directhex: what do you mean with bootstrapping? needing itself to build?
<directhex> sistpoty|work, aye
<sistpoty|work> directhex: usually bootstrapping should be done by buildd-admins
<directhex> sistpoty|work, right. but how is anyone going to test a new package, proposed via revu, without already having it built & installed?
<sistpoty|work> directhex: in rare cases (e.g. only one architecture to bootstrap), it's ok to uuencode the resulting binary after some local bootstrapping, however I'd highly encourage to not do this
<sistpoty|work> directhex: have an example?
<directhex> sistpoty|work, the example is mono-basic. vbnc, the vb.net compiler, is written in vb.net, and needs compiling with a vb.net compiler like, um, vbnc
<directhex> sistpoty|work, upstream bundle a binary copy in the source tarball, which is obviously epic DFSG fail
<directhex> sistpoty|work, it builds nicely, and is pretty easy to convert from using local bootstrap compiler to system compiler, but i don't see how to bridge the gap via revu
<directhex> sistpoty|work, and the lenny freeze means i'm targeting a 0ubuntu1 release first
<sistpoty|work> directhex: well, it's not necessarily a dfsg fail, in case the bundled binary is indeed the result of the exact source
<directhex> sistpoty|work, ideally i'd like to check it with ftpmaster, since joerg originally rejected it. i'm trying to get the package in decent shape since the original packager seems to have gone into hibernation
<sistpoty|work> directhex: for reviewing, I guess reviewers should do the boostrapping locally. (so adding some doc's/scripts how to do that sounds like a good idea)
<sistpoty|work> directhex: well, for debian bootstrapping is not much of a problem, as you can simply upload the locally bootstrapped packages together with the source
<sistpoty|work> directhex: maybe you'd also like to ask infinity for input on this topic?
<directhex> sistpoty|work, i'm generally open to input, since i've not encountered this kind of thing before
<directhex> sistpoty|work, but generally speaking, the ubuntu and debian mono people are highly collaborative, if not the same people, so i'd prefer to do things the debian way which also fits ubuntu, ratherthan anything ubuntuish that is harder to back from into debian
<directhex> and the lenny freeze therefore is a PITA
<directhex> should have looked at this sooner, really
<sistpoty|work> directhex: well, the debian way is not exactly portable for bootstrapping, since we can't do binary uploads in ubuntu.
<sistpoty|work> directhex: hence I'd suggest you ask infinity for the best ubuntu way to get it bootstrapped ;)
<directhex> sistpoty|work, any specific channel?
<sistpoty|work> directhex: he should be in #ubuntu-devel
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ping?
<NCommander> and what needs to be bootstrapped?
<NCommander> (there are packages that binary depends on themselves in Ubuntu; see GNAT)
<NCommander> gdc for another example
<DktrKranz> NCommander, pong?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, well, I was going to start looking at the differences between -33, and -34, and then start popping patches off until I find what broke it
<NCommander> Unless you have a better method
<DktrKranz> NCommander, that's the method I chose
<NCommander> any luck?
<DktrKranz> no, but I didn't try combinations :)
<NCommander> Ow
<NCommander> ew
<DktrKranz> there are four changes (and 11Kb patch, lucky!)
<DktrKranz> two can be related
<NCommander> What happens if you zap all four?
<DktrKranz> FTBFS
<NCommander> Figures
<DktrKranz> gnu hash support must be in
<NCommander> Maybe that's what broke it
<NCommander> Then the fix must be made in axiom
<DktrKranz> remaining one can be omitted safely (given that you compile it with right configure flags to avoid *two* FTBFSes)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, oh... I see you added per-package archive functionality, thanks ;)
<DktrKranz> (on REVU)
<NCommander> I did?
<DktrKranz> so it seems
<DktrKranz> there's a link on top-right corner
<DktrKranz> do you want a screenshot?
 * NCommander looks at REVU
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> (I'm a REVU admin, I can see it myself ;-))
<NCommander> RainCT must have added it
<NCommander> I did it differently in my branch which is unreleased
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I guess bug I opened about it should be closed now.
<NCommander> I can't build axiom at all
<NCommander> segfaults
<NCommander> everytime
<xerxas> someone here ?
<azeem> xerxas: questions like these are rarely useful on irc channels with more than three participants
<xerxas> azeem,  I asked a question 2 hours ago , there was no activity and noone answered  ... :)
<azeem> there was activity, just not about your question
<xerxas> I would like to package a soft which : 1/ a simple file in python , 2/ need an init.d
<xerxas> azeem,  everyone was idling for 1 hour ...
<xerxas> anyway ..
<xerxas> is there some instructions to do that ?
<azeem> xerxas: so look at packages that are 1/ python and others that are 2/ have init.d
<xerxas> python packaging ? init.d scripts instructions ?
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> azeem,  do you know a simple package in python ?
<azeem> apt-cache search python
<xerxas> maybe a simple dyndns client in python is a good start
<xerxas> and for the init.d , a package that have a simple init.d ?
<xerxas> memcache ?
<azeem> xerxas: look at /etc/init.d on your system, find out which package those files belong to, and look at them
<xerxas> atd seems to be a good example
<xerxas> azeem,  thanks
<dholbach> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<emgent> hello
 * didrocks hugs dholbach :)
 * dholbach hugs didrocks back
 * emgent propose mass-hugs.
<dholbach> so... more sessions!
 * emgent hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<ScottK> nhandler: "Fix FTBFS with gtk >= 2.13.1" isn't much of a debian/changelog entry (sylpheed).
<ScottK> nhandler: Do you think we should ship both sylpheed and sylpheed-gtk1.  It seems to me (without knowing much about it) we ought to transition people to the gtk2 package.
 * directhex tries out revu for the first time
<\sh> ScottK: it's ok for that package
<\sh> ScottK: ( I was the sponsor )
<\sh> ScottK: and it was a merge of the package, so the change was introduced by hmm..someone
<\sh> ScottK: fedora has the same patch applied...so everything is ok :)
<\sh> ScottK: btw..we need to find a way of not diverting menpower away from the "general motu team" into the "more specialised teams"...and IMHO that's our social problem , what we are discussing on the ML right now...sad but true...
<ScottK> \sh: I'd prefer a little more verbosity so the next person has a better chance of understanding it, but that's just me.
<ScottK> \sh: I agree.  I just don't see any benifit to NOT approving people who have mostly a specialized interest.
<laga> i have a very specialized interest which is why i havent applied for MOTU yet
<ScottK> I would have also preferred we have the discussion without making a particular individual the object lesson.
<laga> ignore me then.
<ScottK> laga: I don't want to ignore you.
<ScottK> What's you're specialized interest?
<\sh> ScottK: I'm not against approving these candidates...because we need to change our workflow anyways...and yes, it's sad that the applicant now in question was the start of the whole topic...but right now I don't like the way we go...the discussion is more and more heated up
<laga> i'm not offended or anything, i understand you want to have a generalized discussion :)
<laga> ScottK: mostly anything related to mythtv and mythbuntu. XMLTV, ffmpeg.
<ScottK> laga: I am curious what specialized interest you have and why you think that stops you from being MOTU.
<ScottK> laga: Personally, I'd love to have someone interested in that stuff to sponsor it if they were otherwise qualified to be MOTU.
<laga> it seems - to me - that MOTUs are also supposed to merge packages from debian etc. and have lots of other responsibilities
<laga> AFAIK, it is now technically possible to sponsor individual packages if you're not MOTU. i'm not sure of the community parts have been implemented yet
<ScottK> True, but we are virtually all volunteers and so we volunteer as we feel appropriate.
<ScottK> I think that's true.
<\sh> let's say it like this: we all have our special interest in doing ubuntu work ... but now, we have many many many small teams, where people are interested in and who work towards it...but they don't work with the "general motu team" .. so people who need to decide "+1 ready for rights, -1 not ready for rights" they are doomed, because they don't know the people, they never worked with them..
<\sh> and this is on thing we need to solve...before the discussion explodes
<\sh> s/on/one/
<laga> good point
<laga> i still plan on applying for MOTU at some points. i'll be doing some merges and other low work for intrepid+1 so people get to know me better and then probably apply around christmas
<\sh> and with many many people working not with the "general motu team" it becomes quite difficult to tunnel the work...team 1 work on those packages, team 2 work on these packages, but general motu team ( as the situation is right now ) doesn't have clue about the things going on in team 1 or team 2 and their packages.
<\sh> as seen with -mobile...ubuntu patches are applied, but people who do the merges for the next cycle don't know anything about this patch, if it's important or not, or how to merge the patch to the new upstream (if it's not applied)...but these issues are social, more communication between the parties is needed
<laga> \sh: do you expect the mobile team to document every patch?
<ScottK> \sh: See my earlier comment about more verbose debian/changelog entries (not that that is a complete solution).
<ScottK> laga: I certainly do.  That's part of the job.
<laga> ScottK: sure, but where? inside the patch? of course. but on a mailing list? this is not a problem with communication, it's a problem with documentation ;)
<ScottK> laga: In the package.
<\sh> laga: well, the most common practice is, the last uploader / sponsored contributor is doing the merge / sync for the next cycle again..if this is not the case, someone else needs to do it in time, so there needs to be some documentation..why and what and when the patch is needed...or at least: "you can drop this patch because upstream applied it now" on irc or mail (ML) or whatever..this is one of the problem with the split of the teams  in general
<\sh>  (but this is not OSS related or ubuntu, that's a general conclusion)
<ScottK> IMO one should be able to read debian/changelog and have a reasonably clear view of what's going on.
<\sh> ScottK: "debian/patches/foobar.diff: makes the input experience much better on hildon interfaces" ?
<\sh> ScottK: "debian/patches/fix_cn_config.patch: now cn=config works"
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Or "Build-dep on libfooY instead of libfooX because Ubuntu uses the libfoo currently in Debian Experimental"
<ScottK> *-dev of course.
<\sh> (just silly examples I know) but for people knowing the software, they can work out what the patch does, for more general people, this is a pain...so yes, I agree, we will have more specialization in the future..but this obsoletes the purpose of the motu team and yes, we do those changelog entries, too
<\sh> ScottK: but in general, we need a re-structuring (in the near futures)...what do you think?
<Adri2000> ScottK: when a backported package is affected by a bug now fixed in a sru, is it possible to backport the sru?
<ScottK> Adri2000: Generally just do a new backport.  We can backport the SRU if needed, but if we can just do a new backport, that's better.
<ScottK> \sh: I agree we need to figure out what the archive reorg means to MOTU.
<\sh> ScottK: sidenote: GEM is EVIL!
<ScottK> Yeah, well I'm trying to gently point people in that direction.
<\sh> ScottK: no need...just ask sysadmins who are working with devs who switched from java to ruby ,-)
<\sh> ScottK: I just replied to the list...I had in my past a gem which distributed a special version of imagemagick...
<ScottK> I only know about it because I'm providing some system engineering support to a project that uses it.
<\sh> the source archive I mean, and it build it inside of the gem machine...
<ScottK> Fortunately for that project I neither need to write the code nor sysadmin the boxes.
<\sh> without honoring anything from DESTDIR to overrides to ./configure stuff
<devfil> Someone can take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ircp-tray ? I need a second sponsor for it.
<\sh> it just destroyed /usr/lib with installing it there...without a notice...
<\sh> after that I had more clues about gem and not using it
<ScottK> Heh.  I can imagine.
<ScottK> devfil: Looking.
<\sh> but the general thing is: devs vs. sysadmin == bloodsport part 666 ;)
<devfil> ScottK: thanks
<directhex> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mono-basic - go nuts. to bootstrap, please use packages in http://retro.apebox.org/mono-basic/
<ScottK> devfil: Why do the first two copyright holders not get listed as upstream authors?
<devfil> ScottK: I think they were only contributors or the upstreams of ircp, they aren't in AUTHORS file
<ScottK> OK.  Sounds reasonable.
<ScottK> devfil: Does ircp-tray -h show more options than -h and -v?
<devfil> ScottK: what do you mean exactly?
<ScottK> Your man pages says "A summary of options is included below".
<ScottK> One of the listed options is -h show a summary of the options.
<ScottK> The man page only lists -h and -v as options.
<ScottK> Are there more?
<devfil> ScottK: -h is the help and there are only -h and -v
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Does -h provide useful information?  It would seem a shame to read a man page to learn that I need to go somewhere else to get my question answered.
<devfil> ScottK: nothing else
<devfil> -h shows version and -h/-v options
<ScottK> OK.
 * ScottK needs to focus on $WORK for a bit.  I'll come back to it later.
<stefanlsd> If i find another bug while working on a different bug, should i log a bug for it, or just fix it?
<ScottK> stefanlsd: Just fix it and document it in debian/changelog unless it will be around for a long time.
<stefanlsd> SCottK - how do you mean - it will be around for a long time...
<ScottK> If you aren't going to get it fixed soon, then file a bug.
<directhex> NCommander, you still about?
<stefanlsd> ScottK - Thanks. makes sense :)
<NCommander> directhex, yes
<directhex> NCommander, can you cast a steely gaze at my mono-basic package? in my defence, anything wrong with it isn't my fault, it's the other three guys cited in debian/changelog
<directhex> anything right i claim credit for
<NCommander> link?
<directhex> <directhex> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mono-basic - go nuts. to bootstrap, please use packages in http://retro.apebox.org/mono-basic/
<NCommander> why do you zap test/errors/2017?
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> WHy is it a DFSG violation?
<directhex> NCommander, because some dumb twat included it. it's from the ms .net sdk
<NCommander> ew
<NCommander> I thought parts of the SDK were under permissive licenses
<NCommander> Looks good to me off hand
<directhex> parts. not this one
<directhex> NCommander, so who do i stalk to obtain an "official" seal of approval these days?
<NCommander> "offical"?
<directhex> NCommander, advocates. whatever the word is.
<NCommander> Why did I think you were an MOTU ....
<NCommander> *hrm*
<stefanlsd> Can someone please confirm this for me:   Changing Depends:  postgresql-8.2  to   postgresql (>= 8.2)    should allow a depend of postgresql 8.2 or greater?
<huats> by any chance does anybody know when norsetto is returning from holidays ?
<directhex> stefanlsd, assuming people install the "postgresql" package when they want postgresql. do they? i think i have mysql-server-5 but not mysql-server
<stefanlsd> directhex: the problem with the old depends is that postgresql-8.2 is no longer in intrepid.  is it possible even to have 8.2 in intrepid if 8.3 has superceeded it?  should i just make it depend on postgresql-8.3 ?
<directhex> stefanlsd, does it DEFINITELY work with any version?
<stefanlsd> directhex: currently works with 8.2.  dont see any probs with it working with 8.3
<directhex> stefanlsd, my personal preference would be to depend on postgresql-8.3 || postgresql-8.2. that makes backporting easier, and means that if it breaks in 8.4 or 9.0 or whatever, your package isn't lying about it working
<stefanlsd> directhex: aah k. thanks. makes sense
<leleobhz> some kernel expert here?
<leleobhz> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com/msg04922.html
<leleobhz> im getting a error like this when i try to compile intrepid lattest kernel on hardy
<dholbach> leleobhz: you can try #ubuntu-kernel
<leleobhz> dholbach: thanks!
 * directhex pokes people who are awake with http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mono-basic
 * leleobhz requesting packaging jobs
 * Laney throws http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ at leleobhz 
<leleobhz> what have to do in http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ ?
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone look at this bug #254368  ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254368 in openjdk "openjdk-6-jdk should depend on libxt-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254368
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<joaopinto> Hello
<sebner> \o/ DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> \o/ sebner
<DktrKranz> did you win at the bingo?
<sebner> DktrKranz: no, I'm just happy to see you :P
 * DktrKranz invokes a shrink for sebner
<sebner> lol
<sebner> DktrKranz: what about: "I'm happy to see you because now you are here to ACK my syncs" ? ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner, change with "I was happy, but now I realized how bad thruth is"
<sebner> hrhr
<DktrKranz> sebner, aren't you happy with 28 syncs processed in a day?
<sebner> DktrKranz: to be honest I thought about opening a "We love seb129" fanclub :P
<DktrKranz> seb129? He had birthday?
<sebner> damn
<sebner> seb128 of course :P
<DktrKranz> ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: now I made a big jump in the upload statistics ^^
<DktrKranz> let me check
<sebner> DktrKranz: http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, since that's my script, I have my copy already running :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: sure but web is so much faster :P
<DktrKranz> I do stuff myself
<DktrKranz> btw... 14th, good!
<sebner> DktrKranz: best non-motu ^^ though still 33 packages missing to break hardy cycle record
<sebner> DktrKranz: god save RC bug list ^^
<DktrKranz> I already beat it
<sebner> DktrKranz: but you have to be on place 3!
<sebner> DktrKranz: then you get a bronze medal by mark :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, no medal... PONIES!
<sebner> xD xD xD
<DktrKranz> and not from mark, but jordan
<DktrKranz> sebner, btw... good job with RC bugs
<DktrKranz> I hope to see it up-to-date to see if there are some grave bugs to be fixed
<DktrKranz> and then starting to work on serious
<sebner> DktrKranz: I mostly pick some top of the page and of the bottom ^^ but yes, focusing on the grave ones is the goal
<DktrKranz> bottom ones \o/
 * DktrKranz needs to pick middle ones to avoid sebner's advance bug filing
<sebner> DktrKranz: try the lib-* ones. I don't like libs and pretty a lot are not worth syncing
<DktrKranz> sebner, c'mon... bring in some cool transitions and break stuff! :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: bah, cool new stuff is what ubuntu needs :P  bug: #259833
 * DktrKranz will finish uw-imap one once new php5 will be mirrored
<persia>  sebner: Remember that new libs can often enable features higher in the stack, although NBS is frustrating.
<sebner> persia: ^^ /me hides
<persia> sebner: Indeed, but I already owe you several things, and adding more won't help us now :)
<DktrKranz> sebner, when importing transitions, be sure to have a good plan to rebuild packages, or we're in troubles
<sebner> DktrKranz: sure, I saw you having troubles :P
<sebner> persia: what do *you* owe *me*? O_o
<persia> sebner: At least uqm, but probably several other things.
 * DktrKranz thinks about a long period together with Achmed
<DktrKranz> sebner, --^
<sebner> persia: of course uqm :P
<sebner> DktrKranz: ^^
<sebner> persia: urgency: critical :P
 * sebner is now off for today. hf guys
<emgent> hello
<jpds> hello emgent
<ScottK> devfil_: Left you a comment.
<DktrKranz> anyone familiar with something similar to http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16965361/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.php-imap_5.2.6-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<joaopinto> DktrKranz, about the gambas2 mysql eventual bug, it turned to be a trivial SQL error on my part :P
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, ah... nice to know :)
<joaopinto> it would be nice to have 3.8 on Intrepid for the 64 bits support, but I guess it is to late for that
<joaopinto> erm, 2.8
<ScottK> No.  We have a week and a half for new packages and upgreades.
<directhex> looks like mono-basic will get into sid, but you know how fast debian NEW isn't :/
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, if you can test it in intrepid, mind filing a sync request?
<joaopinto> DktrKranz, Debian is still using 2.7...
<DktrKranz> joaopinto, experimental too?
<DktrKranz> no package in exp...
<devfil_> ScottK: so I need to fix irda-utils in order to get my package uploaded?
<ScottK> devfil_: I don't know anything about IR stuff.  You tell me if it works?
<devfil_> ScottK: I started the program without irda-utils and it worked for me but upstream asked to add irda-utils as dep
<devfil_> however it is not a problem of the package but a problem of irda-utils
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I tested the package, that message is just a warning which needs to be fixed in irda-utils, but devfil_'s package seems not responsible and works correctly,
<ScottK> OK.
<devfil_> and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/irda-utils/+bug/179497
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179497 in nvidia-kernel-common "[hardy] using deprecated update-modules command" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ScottK> I was just about to ask.
<ScottK> devfil_: My last concern is about security.
<ScottK> devfil_: If a user installs this is there any default external access?
<devfil_> ScottK: no
<ScottK> OK.  You're in.
<devfil_> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Uploaded.
<fabrice_sp_> Hi, Can someone review mountmanager package? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mountmanager). apachelogger gave me his ACK, and norsetto some more comments, but they are not online. Thanks!
<ScottK-laptop> jpds: ^^^ mountmanager is a qt4 app.  Might be worth looking at.
<fabrice_sp_> ScottK-laptop: thanks for your interest :-) Let's see if jpds has time and interest :-)
<ScottK> I've got interest, but no time.  Maybe he'll have both.
<jpds> fabrice_sp_: Is this KDE only?
<fabrice_sp_> jpds: no. It's compatible with gnome and KDE (desktop file for each desktop manager)
<jpds> fabrice_sp_: Looks good to me. Great work.
<fabrice_sp_> jpds: thanks a lot! Now, I only miss one more ;-) Any volunteer?
 * Iulian looks around
<NCommander> WOOOOOOO, MY DEBIAN AM LIVES
 * NCommander exhales
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Probably just woke up to mark you inactive.
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, that isn't even funny :-P
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-21
<schakrava> bobbo: hi
<dholbach> good morning
<Iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hiya Iulian
<\sh> moins
<geser> good morning
<siretart> yay. AAC decoding support merged into ffmpeg's mainline :)
<Dreigroschenlies> +ncz
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> hello mister sylvaing
<huats> :)
<sylvaing> hi huats
<Daviey> Are any revu admins around?
<persia> Daviey: What do you need?
<Daviey> persia: for some reason my dput's aren't showing
<persia> Daviey: Which package?
<Daviey> fsniper
<jpds> Daviey: Please login at revu.ubuntuwire.com and try again.
<jpds> Daviey: No, just log in and tell me when you've done.
<persia> Daviey: Yep.  That got rejected.  jpds has the right advice :)
<Daviey> hmm, didn't get a rejection mail :`(
<jpds> Daviey: It does not mail on rejections.
<Daviey> ahh
<Daviey> jpds persia: Do the logs say why it was rejected?
<jpds> Daviey: Your key is not in the keyring, log in and it shall be.
<Daviey> jpds: is it now?
<persia> Daviey: Maybe: I never check them.  Make sure you've logged in: I'm checking the signing key now.
<Daviey> ta
<jpds> Once you've done that, I can move it back in the upload queue.
<persia> Daviey:  DSA key ID E30281B3 ?
 * persia leaves the rest of it to jpds who is clearly on top of things :)
<Daviey> no
<Daviey>  0A0D5256
<jpds> persia: I can see his (three) keys, I'll move the .changes file to the upload queue.
<huats> hello persia
<persia> Daviey: The package was signed with E30281B3 : you might want to check your DEBEMAIL configuration.
<persia> huats: Hello.
<jpds> Daviey: `/srv/uploads/rejected/fsniper_1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes' -> `/srv/uploads/fsniper_1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes' - it shall appear shortly.
<Daviey> jpds persia : cool, thanks
<jpds> Anytime.
<jpds> Daviey: Nope, the package is still rejected; best check which key you signed it with.
<Daviey> hmm
<jpds> Daviey: Which key did you use with: debuild -S -sa -k$KEYID?
<Daviey> my mistake, it was signed with E30281B3
<Daviey> (intentionally)
<jpds> Yep, that key does not appear to be in the keyring.
<jpds> Daviey: Please reupload with a key you have registered on LP.
<Daviey> jpds: that ey is on lp :S
<Daviey> key*
<Daviey> (or at least ubuntu's keyserver)
<Daviey> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A20F055E30281B3
<jpds> Daviey: 3
 * jpds -> headdesk.
<jpds> Daviey: You'll have to add it to your LP: https://edge.launchpad.net/~davewalker
<Daviey> silly me!
<jpds> At: /+editpgpkeys
<jpds> And relogin to LP, and reupload.
<jpds> s/LP/revu/
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<KenBW2> apparently Pidgin 2.5 has been released. how long till its in the repos?
<nxvl> good morning
<\sh> hey sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi \sh
<Laney> KenBW2: It is.
<KenBW2> Laney: oh, ok. on Windows atm, will check when at home :)
<leleobhz> how can i use distcc to build packages?
<leleobhz> im using make -j4 on debian/rules, but this is a WOP
<soren> "WOP"? "Whopping Obese Puppy"?
<soren> Wandering Overseeing Policeman?
<leleobhz> workaround oriented programming :p
<persia> Willful Oberonic Pretender
<leleobhz> :p
<nxvl> soren: lol
<leleobhz> things like while 1=1 :p
<leleobhz> well
 * soren still doesn't know what "wop" is. :(
<leleobhz> but how can i use distcc with dpkg-buildpackage or cowbuilder
<nxvl> soren: < leleobhz> workaround oriented programming :p
<leleobhz> :]
<leleobhz> examples of WOP here: http://desciclo.pedia.ws/wiki/POG
<soren> Oh, I thought that was another funny suggestion.
<leleobhz> (see the examples)
<soren> Gambiarras?
<leleobhz> soren: portuguese link :]
<leleobhz> search the code in this page to see WOPs :]
<soren> I can see it's Portuguese. I just don't know what Gambiarras are.
<persia> TheMuso: About the UUSA meeting: any times work for you?
<leleobhz> soren: gambiarra = weird workarround
<soren> I see.
<leleobhz> soren: gambiarra = *VERY* weird workarround
<leleobhz> :]
<NCommander> DktrKranz, you floating around?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: yes
<NCommander> DktrKranz, any luck with gcl?
<DktrKranz> not even tried... there's a new challenge here
<NCommander> What is it?
<NCommander> hrm?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: bug 231307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 231307 in libaws "Dependency on libldap2 is broken" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/231307
<bddebian> Heya gang
<NCommander> DktrKranz, looks fixed
<DktrKranz> NCommander: in intrepid yes, in Hardy a rebuild would be enough if asis would be fixed
<NCommander> whats wrong with asis?
<NCommander> ACK
<NCommander> ADA
<NCommander> so its just a FTBFS
<NCommander> Or something more serious
 * NCommander knows how to program in Ada :-/
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ping?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, oh nice, it FTBFS out of the box :-)
<slayton> how long does it generally take for packages to get reviewed at REVU?
<bobbo> slayton: quite a while normally
<persia> slayton: Ideally, packages get reviewed within 3 months, but we're running a little behind this cycle.
<bobbo> slayton: especially this cycle, things have been slow :/
<slayton> ok... that gives me a better perspective on what to expect
<NCommander> bobbo, even slower then that :-P
<persia> Best plan is to advertise your package here (short quip about why it's cool, REVU status, and REVU URL) about once every 30 hours.
<Laney> Moar REVU days!
<bobbo> NCommander: yeah I have a package that has been waiting for sponsorship for about a month and a half
 * Laney gets in quick: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=goocanvasmm - l33t bindings for goocanvas, known to cure disease and end world hunger
<bobbo> NCommander: bug filed this time last cycle :/
<NCommander> ouch
<slayton> persia, well then I'd like to advertise dbus-c++ and sourcery-vsipl++  I'm pretty sure they aren't ready to upload yet but I don't think I know enough yet on how to get them ready
<slayton> on my own
<ScottK-laptop> slayton: Links are generally a good thing.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I'm seeing if I can do anything about asis-2005
<slayton> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sourceryvsipl%2B%2B
<slayton> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dbus-c%2B%2B
<DktrKranz> NCommander: asis can be fixed switching to gnat-4.2, but since it must be done on LTS, I'm worried about implications since debian completed transition with gnat-4.3
<NCommander> hardy shipped with gnat-4.1, right?
<NCommander> asis must match the gnat version installed
<NCommander> asis must be downgraded then
<DktrKranz> gcc-defaults ships 4.2
<NCommander> gnat doesn't follow gcc-defaults
<NCommander> Never has
<DktrKranz> but most of the packages are compiled with/for 4.1
<DktrKranz> are you sure?
<NCommander> Quite
<DktrKranz> I thought it did
 * NCommander checks p.u.o
<Laney> Someone done broked ubuntu-dev-tools
<DktrKranz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/hardy-updates/gcc-defaults
<NCommander> gnat doesn't build out of the gcc source package
<NCommander> strange
<NCommander> Ok
<DktrKranz> sure, but gnat package is provided here
<persia> Laney: Which patch caused the issue?  How is it broken?
<DktrKranz> and we didn't catch it in time to move * to gnat-4.2
<NCommander> Hardy shipped with gnat-4.2 according to packages.ubuntu.com
<DktrKranz> yes
<Laney> persia: Looking now. Error is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/39423/
<NCommander> so what move has to be done? At best we need a binary rebuild of ada packages if I follow you
<slayton> So here is a random question.... I assume that the MOTU are officially supported at some level by Canonical... but I'm guessing most MOTU's are just volunteers right/
<slayton> ?
<DktrKranz> but several packages were imported from edgy, feisty or gutsy with gnat-4.1
<NCommander> Right
<NCommander> The proper course of action would be the Ubuntu equivelent of a binNMU
<NCommander> Something launchpad doesn't support -_-;
<DktrKranz> for ~ 16 packages, IIRC
<NCommander> when perl got updated in Debian, all non-arch all perl packages got rebuilt ;-)
<DktrKranz> well... publishing rebuilds for packages in -proposed is not a problem, my problem is *how* to test things properly
<DktrKranz> if someone has ADA/gnat knowledge, please speak :)
<NCommander> Run the gnat test suite
 * NCommander ported gnat to m68k
<NCommander> I think I'm qualified ;-)
<DktrKranz> cool!
<persia> slayton: Most MOTU are volunteers, yes.  Generally, one's employer is not considered when one is involved with MOTU.
<NCommander> There was a discussion on this issue years ago in debian
<NCommander> I think they binNMUed all ada packages when gnat was upgraded
<NCommander> DktrKranz, checking qa.ubuntuwire.com confirms that an archive rebuild caused asis to build properly
<DktrKranz> yes... conflicting with gnat-4.2, as my previous test
<NCommander> We need to cause a binary rebuild of every gnat package
<NCommander> THe easiest way we can confirm this is simply to shove every package that needs to be rebuilt in a PPA
<NCommander> and see if we get a working result
<persia> We can't do binary rebuilds: we have to do sourceful uploads, but they can be changelog-only.
<NCommander> That will work
<NCommander> (ugly, but it will work)
<NCommander> Now its just a matter of figuring out what needs to be SRUed
<persia> There's a bug in Soyuz about making it less ugly, but yes, that's how it must be done.
<NCommander> I don't have a (working) hardy chroot ATM, but how does the issue specificy manifest itself
<DktrKranz> persia: complexity: this is in Hardy only, so a SRU campaign must be taken
<DktrKranz> I guess binary rebuilds (or similar) must be taken the old way here
<NCommander> DktrKranz, doing the actual patch work is relatively easy. its more of a trick of locating what we must rebuild in what order
<DktrKranz> NCommander: exactly
<DktrKranz> there are some core packages which needs to be processed first
<NCommander> we have ada based packages in core?
<DktrKranz> and, once landed in -upgrades, we can go with the remaining ones
<NCommander> (gnat is universe ...)
<DktrKranz> no... universe. I referred to "core" as infrastructure packages, not packages in main
<persia> NCommander: "core" != "main"
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> DktrKranz, so what is your plan of attack, if you have one
<DktrKranz> NCommander: what I'd do here is 1) identifying the whole set of packages involved 2) study dependency chain to see which packages are required to be available before other ones 3) publish them in a PPA in the given order 4) test them 5) go for a SRU campaign
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> My intrepid installation has gnat-4.1 installed
<DktrKranz> it has both 4.1 and 4.3 (default)
<NCommander> Oh wait
<NCommander> the man page is misleading :-P
<NCommander> I thought 4.2 was the default
<DktrKranz> 4.3 in intrepid
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> I'd love to work on this
<DktrKranz> I think intrepid has stuff in place, but better be sure of it before FF
<NCommander> Mind if I create a team PPA so we can both upload?
<cody-somerville> What bout the universe contributor PPA?
<NCommander> I'm not a universe contributor :-/
<DktrKranz> what about filing a spec for this, just to have things in place?
<DktrKranz> it's not complex, but long to manage
<cody-somerville> NCommander, Well frackin apply already if not for MOTU here soon :P
<NCommander> SO you think I meet the critera for UUC?
<cody-somerville> Is this a trick question? :P
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> I'm legitimentally asking
<cody-somerville> NCommander, You've demonstrated skill, team focus, and commitment
<cody-somerville> So yes
<NCommander> sweet
<NCommander> Care to sponsor me once I fire the conseul an email?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: yes IMHO. You've been around for a while and give great help with REVU and with packages in the archives
<NCommander> That's two <g>
<laga> UUC is different from MOTU, right?
<NCommander> UUC means I get an @ubuntu.com email address, and the IRC cloak pretty much
<laga> UUC is basically just a "ubuntu member", or am i wrong?
<laga> yeah.
<NCommander> No upload rights
<persia> laga: You are correct, indeed.
<NCommander> (expect to the UUC PPA)
<laga> so, nothing interesting for me ;)
<Laney> The recognition of your development peers
<cody-somerville> laga, That doesn't demonstrate a team focus :-(
<laga> why would i focus on a team that doesn't give me any real benefits?
<NCommander> I'd be very happy with UUC
<NCommander> I can take maintainership of my pacakages in Ubuntu
<laga> NCommander: can you also upload these packages then? that's technically possible with launchpad now
 * cody-somerville nod nods.
 * cody-somerville was nodding about NCommander being able to set himself as a maintainer
<NCommander> Nope
<NCommander> No DM in Ubuntu
<laga> well, that's a different thing and something useful actually. although that doesn't demonstrate "team focus" ;)
<NCommander> (and Debian Maintainers is a god-ugly hack in dak)
 * DktrKranz is happy to be part of that god-ugly hack in dak
<NCommander> You made my eyes bleed
<NCommander> There is a wonderful trail of curses in dak's source about it
<DktrKranz> heh
 * NCommander updates his wiki page with current events
<NCommander> My DD application moved
<NCommander> I'm in shock
<NCommander> My AM is alive
<NCommander> ANd he's ready to help me get through that ASAP
<NCommander> -_-;
<NCommander> I'm going to be a DD before an MOTU
<DktrKranz> :)
<NCommander> DktrKranz & cody-somerville: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall#preview - Do you mine looking this over briefly to see if its acceptable for the Ubuntu consul (I'm going to scratch the header that says MOTU application, and note I also headed the SRU policy)
<geser> NCommander: you don't know for how long your AM is alive :)
<NCommander> geser, bah
<NCommander> Don't jinx it
<NCommander> But if I get DD-ness
<NCommander> I'll be sure to help the Utunbu team get things back into Debian, as well as anew one who is submitting Ubuntu packages
<DktrKranz> NCommander: when you'll get DD-ness, remember me ok? :)
<NCommander> I'm not leaving :-)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, you headed the SRU policy?
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> SRU key policy
<NCommander> ^team
<cody-somerville> Ah.
<NCommander> I was the shepard
<NCommander> I should be more clear
<DktrKranz> NCommander: gonna leave now, will you be here later?
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> DktrKranz, what's your email?
<NCommander> (I need to CC you on this application)
<NCommander> persia, ping?
<DktrKranz> dktrkranz@ubuntu.com
<DktrKranz> ok, let's catch this later and get it fixed in intrepid (if not already fixed), then move to Hardy
<DktrKranz> c u
<persia> NCommander: Best to give me content.  While I decided not to go to bed quite yet, the chance that I'd have an answer ready for you when you returned if I had would be much higher if I knew why you sought me.
<NCommander> persia, heh, sorry, are you interested in sponsoring me for Ubuntu Universe Contributor?
<persia> NCommander: As massively active as you are, the guideline for membership is at least two months of significant and sustained contributions.  I'm only seeing about 6 weeks right now, so I don't have a lot of confidence MC would approve your app.  I'd suggest keeping up your activities for another month or so, and applying then.
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> (I only considered applying since it was suggested, not really a big issue in any case)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, You can still apply but Persia does bring up a good point. It certainly wouldn't change any of the good things I have to say about you though :]
<NCommander> persia, as an aside, I will have the KeyTeamPolicy finished and posted by tonight, I rolled the outstanding concerns into said policy, and as there are no other issues, I think its done and ready to roll
<persia> NCommander: URL?
<NCommander> I haven't commited it to the wiki yet
<NCommander> (wiki doesn't work at work for some reason)
<NCommander> or if it does
<NCommander> It takes longer then usual to edit
 * NCommander shrugs
<NCommander> just watch your inbox :-)
<NCommander> persia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/KeyTeamPolicy - seems the wiki decided to start working for me
<NCommander> persia, it says that two months are recommended, not required. But I do also understand your point
<bddebian> Hah, just wait until you get into the DD process. :)
<ScottK-laptop> bddebian: He is.
<bddebian> I know
<ScottK-laptop> K.
<bddebian> I'm just saying, if he thinks MOTU is long.. :)
<NCommander> bddebian, I've got my AM, and I'm working on the questionares as he sends them to me :-)
<bddebian> I've had my AM since March 7 and answered did P&P and T&S as soon as he sent them to me. :)
<AktionJackson> hab doch letztens age of ampires 3 demo gezockt
<AktionJackson> ups
<persia> NCommander: The admins are not members of either of the teams, so the admin can never be the member that resigned.  Also, typically MC does the additions anyway.
<NCommander> persia, you didn't catch that the last time around :-P
<NCommander> (that was unchanged from before)
<ScottK-laptop> persia: Isn't the fact that currently no admins are members just coincidence.  It is possible?
<persia> ScottK: I don't think it's likely.  In the case of motu-sru, it's not possible, except that one of the members might happen to also have indirect administration.  In the case of motu-release, there is one person who could join the team and be both, but I'd be surprised, as that person is otherwise exceedingly busy.
<ScottK-laptop> Right.  If we've gone to the trouble to write the policy for the case down, we may as well keep it since it could occur.
<persia> I guess.  I'd rather fix the ownership of motu-release to not be one person.
<NCommander> persia, I've got to run, if you edit it, just ping me on IRC, or tell me how to edit it
<persia> NCommander: No worries.  ScottK raises a valid point that currently this is possible, but exceedingly unlikely, and it's not worth dropping it from policy while it remains possible.
<NCommander> Got to love legal (or policy) technicalities
<NCommander> persia, so it meets your seal of approval?
<persia> NCommander: better to say that I don't have any specific objections.
<persia> It's not what I would have written as policy, but it's something to which I can agree.
<NCommander> persia, I'm sorry if I write policies like I was a lawyer :-P
<persia> NCommander: No need to apologize.  While I wrote the previous draft, the original idea comes from LaserJock.  It's the result of collaboration and consensus, which is not a bad thing.
<NCommander> I meant the written style of the policy which I thought you didn't quite like
<persia> Oh, I'm not that fussed about the writing style.  It's that I wouldn't have written that policy, but I can agree to that policy.
<emgent> evening
<Laney> hi emgent
<emgent> heya :)
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<emgent> sebner: launchpad bugs mass flooder!
<firstman> hi
<Laney> yo
<sebner> emgent: why? ^^
<emgent> i dont know why, i only saw your mass sync`s request. :)
<firstman> i remember that there are a script that using a console let you create preinst, postinst, prerm or postrm easily, but i dont remember what is his name
<sebner> emgent: 98% ACKed already ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
<DktrKranz> hola sebner
<NCommander> DktrKranz, working on determing the rdepends
<DktrKranz> confess... you were watching football!
<NCommander> It doesn't appear to be an issue in intrepid
<NCommander> (in intrepid, everything appears to be properly linked to libgnat-4.3)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, nice to know. It won't be much pain, though. Debian should have it fixed
<NCommander> we don't sync binaries ;-)
<DktrKranz> but can sync sources or rebuild them :)
<NCommander> for hardy?
<NCommander> I don't think we need to rebuild, just a changelog only upload to trigger a rebuild
<NCommander> We just need to stage it all out
<DktrKranz> well... rebuild == changelog only upload
<NCommander> yeah
<cody-somerville> DktrKranz, Well, a special changelog only upload :P
<DktrKranz> NCommander, are you using apt-cache or grepping files from the archives?
<NCommander> apt-rdepends :-)
<DktrKranz> does it check for reverse b-d?
<NCommander> E: Reverse build-dependencies are not supported
<NCommander> So no ;-)
<NCommander> I just looked for the rdepends recurively for the runtime library
<DktrKranz> most of the packages are from a unique maintainer
<DktrKranz> so, we can look at his QA page to check missing packages
<NCommander> its amazing how few ada packages their are
<DktrKranz> easier to accomplish :)
<DktrKranz> how many so far?
<NCommander> Daviey, 26 packages
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> DktrKranz,
<firstman> there are an easy way for create patches? apart writing shellscript by hand
<DktrKranz> well 26 SRUs are many, but not impossible
<NCommander> s
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: For reverse build-depends, grep-dctrl is your friend.  IIRC there's an easy cheater script in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<NCommander> what's it called?
<jpds> reverse-build-depends
<NCommander> rather obvious :-P
<jpds> For (failed) rebuilds there's: "buildd".
<NCommander> So 28
<NCommander> actually, no 26
<NCommander> Two can be removed from reverse-build-depends
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'd scan for gnat-dev and gnat-4.X-dev packages, so we can collect them all
<NCommander> We don't need to rebuild ones the explicately state the compiler version
<DktrKranz> assuming there's no other business involved
<NCommander> gnat-dev finds no hits
<NCommander> YOu just need build-dep on gnat, thats the actual compiler
<DktrKranz> those for gnat-4.2-dev need love
<DktrKranz> (if any)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, there are none
<NCommander> So the versioning would be XubuntuX.1
<NCommander> Right?
<NCommander> (and if there is no ubuntu version, add one as 0bubuntu0.1)
<NCommander> er,
<NCommander> Xubuntu0.1
<afflux> Am I still able to request a sync for a package recently added to debian unstable? Do I need any special justification for it?
<DktrKranz> for no-change rebuilds, Xbuild0.Y
<NCommander> Is that if there is no Ubuntu version number, or in general?
<Laney> afflux: Why do you want it if there's no reason?
<afflux> Laney: I think it would be "good to have", just because it's python bindings for a software I'm writing ;)
<Laney> afflux: Then write that, just a sentence on why it's nice to have
<afflux> okay, will do. Thanks.
<Laney> You don't need that much justification before FF
<afflux> okay, I was just wondering because of DIF.
<geser> it's not strictly needed, but I like it when sponsoring sync requests as it show that the requester has thought about it and doesn't want it sync just because Debian has a newer revision
<ScottK-laptop> afflux: DIF just means autosync is turned off.  It would more precisely be name DAIF (adding Automatic).
<NCommander> DktrKranz, was I right?
<afflux> yeah, right.
 * Laney is impressed with Wubi
<DktrKranz> NCommander, yes
<Laney> I wonder if $parents[] will be impressed with Ubuntu...
<cody-somerville> I wouldn't recommend wubi personally
<NCommander> DktrKranz, so should I start uploading things to a PPA :-)
<Laney> cody-somerville: Why's that?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, did you find which one?
<cody-somerville> If you don't shutdown correctly, your wubi install of Ubuntu will not boot any longer until you run the ntfs (either Window's or Linux's) tools on it to mark the partition as clean.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, what do you mean which one?
<DktrKranz> will you upload to yours?
<SolarWar> hi, i've lost my PGP key, but i have my revocation certificate, is it possible to revoke the key?
<Laney> Does it offer to run it?
<jpds> SolarWar: Yes, gpg --import the cert.
<geser> SolarWar: yes, that's the only way to revoke a lost key
<afflux> and don't forget to send it to the servers again: "gpg --send-key keyid".
<SolarWar> jpds, gpg: key 7DC579EC: no public key - can't apply revocation certificate
<geser> SolarWar: gpg --recv-key 0x7DC579EC and try again
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I can simply make a team so we can both upload
<DktrKranz> NCommander, eventually we can link our PPAs (or copy packages when ready), so there's no need to have a central PPA
 * NCommander cleans out his PPA first
 * DktrKranz too
<NCommander> I can handle all the uploads if you want to write the spec and such?
<DktrKranz> agreed
<NCommander> I'm just going to go right down the list, I don't expect anything to fail
<NCommander> (well, libs first, the the rest)
 * NCommander installs hardy sources
<NCommander> DktrKranz, do you have a standardized changelog message you'd like to use for this>
<SolarWar> geser, jpds thanks :)
<DktrKranz> NCommander, something similar to "No-change rebuild for gnat-4.2 transition (LP: #xxxxxx)" should go.
<NCommander> Did you open an LP bug already?
<NCommander> or should it be an individual bug for each package?
<DktrKranz> how many packages are on hardy? ~ 26?
<NCommander> 26
<NCommander> (it will be a bitch to do it for each individual package)
<DktrKranz> I think archive-admins will have troubles to discover which packages need to be pushed if we file a single bug, especially if SRUs need to be managed in several stages
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> Individual bugs it is
<NCommander> handy hint
<DktrKranz> I'd rather discover which packages need to be pushed before and file a common bug report
<DktrKranz> and then go for the second ones
<DktrKranz> (if applicable)
<NCommander> For ones that have no ubuntu minor, its build0.1, right appended?
<persia> I'd recommend waiting until you know the structure that updates must follow before opening the bugs.
<DktrKranz> Let's make some tests before announcing bugs on LP
<NCommander> That means redoing each changelog twice :-/
<DktrKranz> yes, but it will be easier to manage by every parties
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok, I'm going to test uploading asis
<NCommander> THat's one of the major libraries that needs a rebuild
<NCommander> (to my PPA)
<DktrKranz> go go go!
<NCommander> uploaded to PPA
<DktrKranz> and I guess it's the main source of problems
<DktrKranz> another problem is hardcoded binary packages dependencies
<DktrKranz> I saw several packages have gnat-4.1 in it
<NCommander> DktrKranz, if its hardcoded, its intentionly dependent on the old gnat-4.1
<DktrKranz> so, gnat-dev should be replaced with gnat-4.1-dev
<NCommander> (if we want to zap gnat-4.1 from the archive, then be my guest, crust busters would love you ;-))
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+archive - I'll keep track of the rebuild process in my whiteboard
<DktrKranz> heh
 * DktrKranz thinks about it a bit
<Kilimanjaro> Has anybody here substantial experience with lazarus? I try to package some software with it. It compiled one month ago on Debian, but it does not now on either Debian or Ubuntu.
<NCommander> At least once its all done, you just need to pull all the sources, and reupload to hardy-updates
<DktrKranz> hardy-proposed, actually
<NCommander> er, my mistake
<NCommander> I thought hardy-updates was aliased to hardy-proposed, so a changelog with either one would go to the right place
<DktrKranz> no, hardy-updates is (was?) a valid target for uploads
<NCommander> man, things take awhile to show up in ones PPA
<NCommander> (this is the first serious abuse of a PPA I've ever done ;-))
<NCommander> There we go
<NCommander> lpia doesn't have an ada compiler
<DktrKranz> another layer of complexity: libgnatvsn-dev points to libgnatvsn-4.2-dev and there's no libgnatvsn-4.1-dev at all... packages which b-d on those must have hardcoded dependencies adjusted to new gnat
<NCommander> Lets hold off moving packages that are hardcoded on gnat-4.1
<NCommander> AFAIK, they aren't broken since they are all built consistantly with the same compiler
<DktrKranz> asis has, IIRC
<NCommander> asis is gnat, not gnat-4.1
<NCommander> I mean to say the issue is code getting intermixed
<DktrKranz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/asis-programs
<NCommander> The build-dep in the control file is: Build-Depends: gnat (>= 4.1)
<NCommander> But ...
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> damn it
<DktrKranz> look at binary stanza
<NCommander> Its got a depends on the compiler
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> That needs a fix
<NCommander> But it at least it builds now it seems
<DktrKranz> that's good
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> FTBFS
<NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16986932/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.asis_2005-5build0.1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<NCommander> That's ugly
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> Shut
<NCommander> asis is not compatible with gnat 4.1
<NCommander> The actual source package will require an upgrade
<NCommander> (er, asis-2005)
<DktrKranz> *really* bad
<NCommander> (2007 works fine with 4.3)
<NCommander> I can find an asis that works with 4.2
<NCommander> Then we just need to rebuild asis's rdepends
<NCommander> Its your call on how we fix it
<DktrKranz> a "minimal" patch would be welcome
<DktrKranz> but I guess "minimal" won't be our case
<NCommander> 2007-3 is 4.3
 * DktrKranz starts to think debian didn't want to transition to 4-2 intentionally...
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> THat's ugly
<NCommander> (check out README.Debian)
<DktrKranz> asis' ?
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> That's the headache
<NCommander> asis is compiler version dependent
<NCommander> Since it hooks into GCC's internals
<NCommander> I need to work out how the debian packaging works
<NCommander> Then I can tell you how big of a headache we have
 * DktrKranz prepares some Aul*n
<NCommander> Aul*n?
<DktrKranz> replace * with i
<DktrKranz> it's a common remedy for headache, at least in Italy
<NCommander> No idea what Aulin is
<NCommander> Did any Debian release ever use gcc-4.2 as the default?
<NCommander> (etch was 4.1, and lenny is 4.3 ...)
<DktrKranz> just for a small period
<DktrKranz> but they turned to 4.3 very soon and then started transitioning
<DktrKranz> after that, 4.2 was removed
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> Dman
<NCommander> That's a problem
<DktrKranz> (and now I figured why)
<NCommander> I'm looking for an asis that works with 4.2
<NCommander> I say we do a clamav, and simply propose asis-2007 be used
<DktrKranz> I'll do a quick diffstat
<ScottK> NCommander: "Do a clamav" took about a year and lots of testing.  Enjoy.
<NCommander> ATM, this doesn't work period
<NCommander> But ...
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> asis has a hard coded build-depends on gcc-4.2
<NCommander> r
<NCommander> 4.3
<DktrKranz> monstruos
<DktrKranz> diff is > 3 Mb in size... archive-admin will blow us away
<NCommander> I could see if I could port asis-2005 against gcc-4.3
<NCommander> *43.2
 * NCommander blows the dust off his ada coding skills
<NCommander> at least its hard to shoot yourself in the foot with ada
<NCommander> I see the issue
<NCommander> This might be patchable
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok, I think I found a patch that might work
<NCommander> DktrKranz, now what?
<NCommander> (I'm seeing if I can patch this to build, not sure if I can)
<DktrKranz> what is its weight?
<NCommander> right now, six lines of code
<NCommander> But I can't promise that if it builds it will actually work
<NCommander> Right now, its just failing because of a casting issue, but there may be more issues that haven't cropped up yet
<DktrKranz> if it's six lines, and it's safe enough, it's definitely worth having it in
<NCommander> Right now, its just a forced cast
<NCommander> ada is strongly typed, so any changes in objects will break things
<DktrKranz> next question is if asis is compatible with 4.2
<NCommander> We'll have to really test anything that depends on asis
<DktrKranz> brb
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok, I think I got it working
<DktrKranz> cool
<NCommander> Had to remember my ada string manipulation ;-)
<NCommander> We'll have to keep this all in a single ppa since asis needs patchs
<NCommander> (I think there is a way though to specify to grab packages from another PPA)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, under your PPA, add mine as a dependency so it can grab the modified asis from it
<DktrKranz> NCommander, done
<TomJaeger> is it possible to resume a build with dpkg-buildpackage?
<NCommander> add -nc
<TomJaeger> thanks
<NCommander> Uh oh
<NCommander> linker error
 * jpds waves at rn114 
<rn114> hi, i'm trying to create a new package, but having some trouble with pbuilder not satisfying dependencies
 * rn114 waves back
<rn114> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<rn114>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libdts-dev which is a virtual package.
<jpds> rn114: Could you paste bin the build log?
<rn114> yeah one sec
<geser> rn114: have you enabled universe in your pbuilder?
<rn114> pastebin post here: http://pastebin.com/me808b1b
<rn114> good question geser, this is my first use of pbuilder, i'll just check
<rn114> geser, no i hadn't, retrying now
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I think I got the linker error to clear
<rn114> right, i tried uncommenting COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse", but got the same result
<rn114> i'm just rebuilding my pbuilder environment to see if that helps
<jpds> rn114: Have you updated the base tgz?
<rn114> with sudo pbuilder update?
<rn114> i just did sudo pbuilder create again, although that was probably a mistake
<jpds> It'll do it.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, are you dead to the world?
<DktrKranz> no
<rn114> but overkill?
<NCommander> /usr/bin/ld: a4g-a_elists.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<NCommander> Bah
<DktrKranz> huh?
<DktrKranz> wasn't it build with -fPIC already?
<NCommander> Seems like it isn't
<NCommander> well
<NCommander> It's susposed to be
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> shoot, this looks like it might be an AMD64 issue
 * NCommander tests
<joaopinto> that is an AMD64 issue, you will need to add -fPIC on the object files building
<rn114> jpds, geser its chuntering away now, seems good
<rn114> thanks for the help
<jpds> rn114: Glad to hear it works.
<rn114> it'll probably be another hour or so before i find the first build error :-)
<NCommander> joaopinto, I figured as much, I'm running down where I need to add it, gnat apps are kinda weird
<rn114> i assume that the pbuilder environment will be quicker to set up on subsequent attempts?
<NCommander> joaopinto, does the static library need to be -fPIC?
<joaopinto> NCommander, no idea on that, I had that issue with a software which used no other libs :\
<NCommander> joaopinto, I'm just rebuilding the source package first to check consistancy issues, I did so editng of the rules file
<jpds> rn114: You'll just need to sudo pbuilder update.
<geser> rn114: every pbuiler run needs to unpack the base.tgz and clean up afterwards
<joaopinto> but I guess it does, because I have a vague idea of seeing that on  .a building some time ago
<rn114> so geser, it unpacks base.tgz, selects all required packages and then goes on to try and build the package afresh each time?
<geser> yes
<rn114> k thanks
<geser> this way you get every time a clean environment and only the packages which are needed to build the package are installed
<rn114> yes, i realise what i said sounded a bit critical, but i understand the need for it
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok, got it :-)
<NCommander> It's roughly a 10-15 line debdiff
<DktrKranz> wooohooo!
<NCommander> (bunch of rules file changes, control file change, changelog, and one new source patch)
<NCommander> Uploading to ppa, with version of 5ubuntu0.1~ppa1
<NCommander> DktrKranz, should I add lpia as an architecture?
<DktrKranz> let me check p-a-s
<DktrKranz> %asis:                alpha amd64 hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel s390 sparc powerpc
<DktrKranz> won't build
<NCommander> Bah
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok, I think I got it fully fixed now (I had some issues with bad changes getting in the source package)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, now that asis is properly ported and handled, we need to test it, got a good build-dep against asis we can test?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, libaws, to fix  231307
<NCommander> Where's the latest source of libaws?
<DktrKranz> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/libaws
<DktrKranz> libaws should be released once asis is in -updates, though
<NCommander> I don't see the debdiff
<NCommander> Er
<NCommander> I assume I need to grab the source out of proposed?
<DktrKranz> I didn't upload anything, current version is the one from hardy-release
<NCommander> Oh, that one just needs a rebuild?
<DktrKranz> probably
<DktrKranz> or just switching to gnat-4.1 to gnat
<NCommander> The intrepid one is hard coded for 4.3
<NCommander> gnat, gnat-4.2
<NCommander> er, gnat, gnat-4.3
<DktrKranz> hardy has gnat-4.1, IIRC
<NCommander> ARGH
<NCommander> *swears*
<NCommander> no, hardy has 4.2
<NCommander> By default
<NCommander> Aren't we moving everything to 4.2?
<DktrKranz> yes
<DktrKranz> or trying to, at least
<DktrKranz> if it has 4.2, a rebuild is enough
<DktrKranz> if it won't FTBFS, of course
<DktrKranz> I'm unsure if packages in -proposed are automatically propagated to others in -proposed too, if so, we could upload packages with shorter delats
<DktrKranz> *delays
<DktrKranz> ok, got an answer in -devel
<NCommander> DktrKranz, uploaded the libaws package with gnat-4.1 depends removed
<NCommander> I'm not sure if we should be hardcoding the depends to 4.2, or what
<DktrKranz> no, gnat points to correct gnat
<DktrKranz> *gnat-4.2
<NCommander> what happens if gnat updates, and we have to binary rebuild AGAIN
<NCommander> it worked out for intrepid because of the hardcoded gnat-4.3 I think
<DktrKranz> I don't think someone will upgrade gnat :)
<DktrKranz> and if he does, he should be prepared to a crisis!
<NCommander> http://www.ada-france.org/debian/debian-ada-policy.html#The-Debian-Ada-compiler - there is nothing special here
<DktrKranz> ppa3 failed too :(
<NCommander> DktrKranz, bah, I'm just having issues
<NCommander> I'm making sure it works in pbuilder this time around
<NCommander> (I've been abusing the PPA, but it seems it ignores it if a patch fails to apply cleanly)
<NCommander> Just not my night tonight :-/
<NCommander> DktrKranz, libaws_2.2dfsg-1ubuntu0.1~ppa1.dsc: Section '-' is not valid
<NCommander> (PPA reject)
<DktrKranz> \o/
<DktrKranz> no section in source stanza
<NCommander> Yup
<NCommander> *sighs*
<DktrKranz> add a bogus one for now
<NCommander> Who the hell packages these, and who checks incoming
<slangasek> who checks what incoming?
<NCommander> Debian incoming, source package lacking section
<NCommander> dak should choke on that
 * NCommander grumbles and stops being bitter
<NCommander> slangasek, anyway, how goes your night?
 * NCommander takes a chill/overreacting pill
<slangasek> Sections are all done via override in dak, so the ones in the source package are just suggestions
<slangasek> though I am a bit surprised that dak doesn't reject that
<slangasek> NCommander: it's not night here...
<NCommander> s/night/$SLANGSEK_LOCATION
<NCommander> :-P!
<azeem> ELANGASEK
<NCommander> ack, typo
<slangasek> NCommander: my Oregon is doing fine, thanks
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> ....
<NCommander> I should not be allowed anywhere near regexs
<NCommander> I may splice together non-sense, and insanity in something resembling a working mind like my own
<TheMuso> persia: Preferably some time between 23UTC and 12UTC, during the week.
<NCommander> wow, I didn't know you could rescore in a PPA
<wgrant> NCommander: One cannot unless one is a buildd admin. But if one is, they're the same as primary archive builds.
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> (one of the buildd admins said you could rescore in a PPA, but this is the first time I ever actually had something queued up in a ppa)
<NCommander> DktrKranz, this time, it got past the section it kept FTBFS in the PPA
<DktrKranz> be prepared to receive FTBFS in libawf
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> I'm simply going to retry it once asis finishs
<DktrKranz> but a rebuild should be enought to fix them
<NCommander> DktrKranz, WOOOOO, success on asis!
<DktrKranz> \o/
<NCommander> ugh, you have to reset individually each arch you want to build
<wgrant> NCommander: buildd.py
<NCommander> does it work on PPAs/
<DktrKranz> wait until binaries are published, or you'll get another round of FTBFS
<wgrant> Maybe not.
<NCommander> oh er
<NCommander> ...
<wgrant> But I'm sure you could convince it to.
<NCommander> damn
<NCommander> How long does t take for binaries to get published
<DktrKranz> 20 minutes?
<wgrant> 16 minutes and 30  secondsfrom now.
<NCommander> I see the binaries in the pool
<wgrant> 4 minutes and 10 seconds ago, then.
<NCommander> meh
<NCommander> WHY DO I KNOW ADA
 * NCommander hits his head on the wall
<NCommander> I caught a mistake in the packaging
<NCommander> Now
<NCommander> Figures
<nxvl> goof afternoon!
 * DktrKranz is AFK for a while
<james_w> hey nxvl
<nxvl> james_w: ni!
<nxvl> hi*
<slangasek> the knights who say hi
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ok ...
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> slangasek, I thought we were the knights who said hi-how-are-you-how's-your-Oregon-going?
<NCommander> (or the knights who formally said hi :-P)
<slangasek> that may be!
 * NCommander rebuilds libadaxml2 :-/
<NCommander> Some people have lives
<NCommander> I'm fixing gnat-4.2 issues
<NCommander> *sigh*
<azeem> when you're done not having a life fixing gnat-4.2, you could port it to the Hurd!
<azeem> just kidding
<NCommander> What porting
<NCommander> It just needs a cross-bootstrap
<NCommander> Now building GCC/Gnat on hurd might just be pure pain
<azeem> I think there's some arch-dependant code
<azeem> maybe I'm confusing it with another language
<NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16989115/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.libaws_2.2dfsg-1ubuntu0.1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - does this build failure make sense to anyone?
<NCommander> azeem, ada is implemented above the arch specifc parts of gcc
<NCommander> YOu could target it to viengoos if you really liked pain
<azeem> I don't
<NCommander> azeem, I dunno, your a hurd porter. Some where deep inside is a pain loving masochist :-)
<azeem> NCommander: probably easier to figure that out manually via apt-get in a hardy chroot
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> Meh
<NCommander> my hardy chroot currently updating itself so meh
<azeem> NCommander: probably easier to figure that out manually via apt-get in a hardy chroot in a 5 minutes
<azeem> -a
 * NCommander returns from his smoke break
<NCommander> DktrKranz, have you returned?
<DktrKranz> sort of
<NCommander> DktrKranz, sort of? It's kinda a binary question
<DktrKranz> I'm retourned, but will be here for a little (quite late here9
<NCommander> DO you want to handle the nitty gritty of writing the spec/SRUs, and I'll handle doing the transition part?
<DktrKranz> sure, but I'll probably do it tomorrow
<NCommander> With a little luck, I should be able to do all 26 rebuilds tonight
<DktrKranz> with the hope there's no weird dependency chain to be followed
<NCommander> Well, 26 sounds about right
<NCommander> We can follow up by a removal of gnat-4.1
<NCommander> (cruft busting at its best)
<DktrKranz> in order to avoid this again :)
<NCommander> it will happen with gnat-4.4 again -_-;
 * DktrKranz thinks we should define a strategy to avoid cases like this
<NCommander> Well, we need to binary rebuild everytime a new gnat hits the repo
<NCommander> That can't be avoided
<DktrKranz> we imported a bad transition we couldn't manage in time for hardy
<DktrKranz> well, doing rebuilds is not a problem, real issues are when transitions are complex like this one (code change, API break, whatever) and Debian nor upstream is not of aid
<NCommander> yeah well, at least its only 26 packages, and the changeset is managible
<NCommander> libxmlada done
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-22
<nxvl> NCommander: around?
<NCommander> sorta
<NCommander> Suffering from ada-itus
<nxvl> NCommander: i still apear in revu as a contributor
<nxvl> and it's not taking in account my ACK's
<NCommander> ACKs?
<nxvl> advocates
<nxvl> +1's
<nxvl> however you want to call it
<NCommander> Checking
<nxvl> need to run
<nxvl> NCommander: please take a look at that
<nxvl> :D
<NCommander> Look at what?
<NCommander> I fixed that
<Stemp> Hi all (again in fact for some of you), I ask the question in ubuntu-bugs but it might be better to ask here. It's about a bug in fail2ban in Hardy. This bug is fixed in Debian. I uploaded the Sid package in my ppa to check it. What should I do now to ask for the Debian package in Hardy ?
<Stemp> Good night, I was answered in ubuntu-bugs
<StevenK> ~.
<tbielawa> hello all
<tbielawa> I wonder if there's any chance some one can please give me some REVU feedback? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lucidlife
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<raphink> morning
<didrocks> hi everyone o/
<slytherin> If a package contains help files, do I need anything special in postinsts to install them? scrollkeeper update etc.
<huats> morning everyone
<persia> slytherin: It entirely depends on the type of the help files.  If you want to register them with scrollkeeper, you'd need to do so.
<Iulian> G'morning
<slytherin> persia: I am trying to fix bug 259657. The help files will be accessed only through brasero help menu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259657 in brasero "No help files in brasero in intrepid" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259657
<persia> slytherin: Does brasero have code to read the files directly?
<slytherin> persia: I think so. Because currently when I click help menu, it tells me that files are missing.
<persia> slytherin: Try just installing the files in the place brasero wants them, and testing locally.  If that doesn't work, you'll need to dive into the code to figure out how you are reaching that error.
<slytherin> persia: I don't have access to intrepid installation now. Do you have?
<persia> slytherin: Yes, but my queue is immense just now.
<persia> Does your machine support kvm?
<slytherin> persia: I am in office, so I am not interested in setting up kvm here. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Ah.  I understand.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, gnat transition in hardy seems limited to only six packages, most of all you already published to your PPA.
 * DktrKranz needs to look for online presence before ping people
<directhex> gnat update in hardy?
<DktrKranz> directhex: no. some packages need to be transitioned to gnat-4.2, we didn't manage this in time in Hardy and now some are broken
<directhex> oh. whoops.
<DktrKranz> directhex: some experience with gnat or ADA pacakges? we lack testers, and help is appreciated.
<directhex> DktrKranz, no, sorry. i restrict myself to spreading evil microsoft patents via mono work.
<DktrKranz> heh
<DktrKranz> take a break, then
<DktrKranz> ;)
<directhex> monodoc needs updating for intrepid, but i'm working on updating it in debian first
<directhex> some other kind soul is working on mono-tools
<kostmo> Are any MOTU's online that would be willing to advocate for "pyrocket"? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3406
<kostmo> "pyrocket" complements the "pymissile" package already in Ubuntu to support the whole range of USB missile launchers that are out there.  "pyrocket" also provides webcam support, joystick control, and the beginnings of automatic computer-vision control.
<kostmo> What is probably of more use to the general communitiy, however, is the framework to control USB devices from Python (see here for this very idea: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=09eea181c23d517021f3f641630b20b9&p=4171807&postcount=4).  My "backend" code serves as a concise example for these activities.  Including my package would benefit Ubuntu by widening the gamut of hardware support, offering a springboard for USB and c
<kostmo> omputer vision tinkering, and enabling really dorky Youtube videos (remember Compiz cube porn)?
 * directhex blinks
<kostmo> :)
<directhex> there's a "whole range" of usb missile launchers?
<kostmo> yeah, at least 4
 * directhex blinks again
<directhex> nobody in the US army is using this stuff, right?
<torkel> directhex: you can't start a war with only one launcher... :-)
<kostmo> i have a few
<kostmo> but no opposition
<directhex> try iran
<kostmo> they're only interested in space exploration, right?
<kostmo> well, bedtime for me now
<kostmo> I'll check for bites in the morning
<cyberix> Could someone review pyliblo? It probably still needs some work.
<cyberix> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pyliblo
<kostmo> one more thing - I think this says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV6573UjSpc&NR=1
 * kostmo sleeps
<persia> http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=jQBqTqDPqXs&feature=related
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Iulian> Hello sistpoty.
<sistpoty|work> hi Iulian
<cyberix> sistpoty|work: You just missed my advertisement.
<cyberix> sistpoty|work: In short: If you get bored, look at pyliblo at revu.
<sistpoty|work> cyberix: sorry, am at work atm, so I can't review packages
<cyberix> sistpoty|work: no hurry
<cyberix> sistpoty|work: I'm trying to get someone to review it someday
<sistpoty|work> heh
<cyberix> Probably not all correct
<cyberix> I'm hoping to get a list of errors
<cyberix> and maybe solution suggestions
<stefanlsd> If im trying to test a postrm command to check a purge issue - is it enough to just fix the postrm in /var/lib/dpkg/info  and try purge the package... doesnt seem to work. (unless my fix doesnt work)
<persia> stefanlsd: If the problem is only with purge, that should be sufficient.
<persia> (In other words, your fix doesn't work)
<stefanlsd> persia: hehe. thanks. yeah, i figured its not actually an issue with postrm, but with prerm which is looking for the file im trying to ignore if its not found in postrm. so yeah, thanks. need to fix my fix :)
<stefanlsd> When i've made a fix and i'm doing a diff, is the aim for the diff to be as unobtrusive as possible, or to be more correct. In this case im talking about indentation. After putting things in an if and indenting, the diff is larger then if i didnt indent, and left it. pretty readable still though...
<azeem> stefanlsd: keep the coding style of the code you're changing
<nxvl> good morning
<Hobbsee> greetings
<Iulian> Hey
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Raybuntu> Anyone free to make a quick review on my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=get-you It's a tool for downloading videos from videosites like Youtube.
<persia> Raybuntu: How is it better than the other three packages that do that?
<Raybuntu> you can search videos in the GUI
<Raybuntu> and preview it
<persia> MOTU Meeting in #ubuntu Meeting
<geser> I hope not in #ubuntu but #ubuntu-meeting :)
<persia> Err.  Indeed.
 * persia is multitasking badly
<huats> morning nxvl
<huats> nxvl:and since I haven't seen you for a while : congrats !
<huats> I am really happy for you :)
<nxvl> huats: thank you!
<nxvl> huats: you should in a while
<huats> :)
<huats> I will :)
<huats> ;)
<huats> (I hope so at least)
<Hobbsee> oh, meeting.
<emgent> evening
<nxvl> read you later, have a nice day!
<huats> does anybody know where I can find the diff between policy 3.7.2 and 3.8.0 ?
<huats> (I mean if there is a diff available somewhere)
<james_w> /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.gz is useful
<james_w> that's the approximate path at least
<huats> james_w: thanks
<huats> I'll have a look :)
<james_w> it's not a diff as such, but it tells you what changed that you may need to change in your package
<huats> it is exactly what I am looking for :)
<huats> when I change the soname of a lib, I have to declare that the new lib conlicts/replaces with the previous one right ?
<geser> no, if both versions are co-installable
<geser> you need to rename the package to reflect the new soversion
<huats> geser: that is what I did
<huats> how can I figure out if they are co-installable ?
<geser> they should usually be unless you have some common files in both packages
<huats> ok
<huats> I'll have a look at that
<huats> thanks geser
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid open, go wild!  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Another day!! Keep working. | Next MOTU meeting:  Fr, September 5nd 20:00 UTC
<geser> sistpoty|work: "September 5nd"? shouldn't it be "September 5th"?
<sistpoty|work> geser: good point *g*
* sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid open, go wild!  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from  http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Another day!! Keep working. | Next MOTU meeting:  Fr, September 5th 20:00 UTC
<jpds> It's in France?
<Iulian> jpds: Friday :P
<Iulian> sistpoty|work: You can change that with Fri
 * sistpoty|work just reused the previous Fr *g*
<sistpoty|work> Iulian: feel free to change the topic yourself ;)
* Iulian changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Another day!! Keep working. | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, September 5th 20:00 UTC
<Iulian> Just noticed that there is no +t mode.
<sistpoty|work> if there were, I couldn't change the topic either ;)
<geser> jelmer: Hi, re bug 255106: it needs a newer bzr-dbus than is in intrepid but I couldn't find a sync request for it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255106 in ubuntu "please sync bzr-avahi " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255106
<jpds> If there were, I'd remove it.
<jelmer> geser, hi
<jelmer> geser, you're right, sorry
<jelmer> geser, should I file one?
<nxvl> geser: is bzr maintained @ debian?
<geser> jelmer: yes please, if it's safe to sync it to intrepid
<geser> nxvl: I hope jelmer maintains his packages which he want synced from Debian
<nxvl> oh it actually is
<nxvl> i thought it will be maintained @ ubuntu
<jelmer> nxvl: The pkg-bazaar-maint team is a mix of Debian and Ubuntu people, we usually upload to Debian and wait for it to sync to Ubuntu
<nxvl> jelmer: i would say Debian, ubuntu and canonical people, but yeah, i understand what you mean
<nxvl> jelmer: that's actually what i use to do with my packages
<nxvl> fix in debian -> sync in ubuntu
<jelmer> nxvl, well, canonical people are Debian/Ubuntu people too :-)
<persia> Umm, aren't there also random bzr developers who are none of Debian, Ubuntu, or Canonical?
<james_w> persia: not in pkg-bazaar-maint
<james_w> not a lot for them to do there if they're not interested in Debian or Ubuntu
<persia> Ah, no there wouldn't be.
<nxvl> persia: as in upstream, yes, but not maintainer AFAIK
<ScottK-laptop> jelmer: Some are and some aren't.
 * persia feels the weight of comprehension dawning
<jelmer> yeah, there's actually some Canonical folks who work on Bazaar and whose primary platform is Windows
<nxvl> persia: comprehension or the lack of sleep?
<nxvl> :D
<jelmer> neither of them helps maintain the Debian packages though :-)
<persia> nxvl: The one, but "dawning" because of the other.
<nxvl> persia: that's what i thougt
 * Hobbsee grumbles at forumsheep.
<Hobbsee> at the very least, you can use brainstorm.  Or if you can't, sending an email to the devel discuss mailing list is useful, but you could at least provide a summary of what it is, so those who aren't interested don't need to visit the forum thread....
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: but the forums are COOL!
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: and everyone who doesn't want to use them is AGAINST the community!
<joaopinto> Canonical using Windows ? Sacrilege :P
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: they're cool at being *forums*.  they do not do a good job of impersonating the bug tracker, ideastorm, or anything else!
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: heh.
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: sounds like the whole "there are more forumsheep than anyone else, so everyone should bend to the will of the forumsheep" argument...
<directhex> Hobbsee, which forum sheepery? removing mono from ubuntu-desktop?
<Hobbsee> directhex: nah - ubuntu-restricted-extras mail
<Hobbsee> directhex: i've been avoiding the mono bleating.
<directhex> Hobbsee, i ought to, but FUD is one of those things that tends to fester rather than go away
<Hobbsee> heh
 * Hobbsee wondres if listadmin is finished yet
<Hobbsee> er, fixed
<directhex> ubuntuforums. top google hit for "banning mono"
<Hobbsee> yay
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: Anyone who doesn't want mono can just switch to Kubuntu.
<Hobbsee> ban forums?  :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: or just...purge mono...
<ScottK-laptop> That's be good too.
<Hobbsee> or ban forums.
<Hobbsee> er, forum sheep.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, but just pointint out that if one wants a mono free *buntu desktop there is one already.
<directhex> these are all rational options. but i wish the "ban mono" brigade would start with "ban fat32.ko" or "ban smbclient" first
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> directhex: baaaa.
<directhex> since the main mono moan is teh patentzzzz
<Hobbsee> directhex: perhaps you need to lead them in that direction.  or find someone else to.
<directhex> the other one being "why reinvent java, java is gpl", ignoring the several year time gap between events
<directhex> Hobbsee, ignorance can be cured. i do what i can for ignorance
<directhex> Hobbsee, stupidity on the other hand... baaaaaaaa
<Hobbsee> directhex: that's true :)  very true :)
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: patentzzzz are also a concern for Samba.  After all the Samba devs got access to non-public documentation.
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, non-public documentation is fine. implementing ECMA standards is evil!
<ScottK-laptop> Right, but try and tell me there aren't patents around MS SMB networking extensions.
<jelmer> ScottK-laptop, ??
<jelmer> ScottK-laptop, We don't have any more docs than everybody else
<ScottK-laptop> jelmer: Right.  Poorly put.
<jelmer> ScottK-laptop, Microsoft published those docs we got access to on MSDN
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, iirc samba's covered by a patent pledge
 * ScottK-laptop was missing the word 'previously'
<directhex> http://www.microsoft.com/interop/osp/default.mspx
<ScottK-laptop> jelmer: Sorry about that.  Thanks for the correction.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, you around?
<ma10> why does the whole world have to obey US patent law anyway?
<directhex> ma10, because teh patentzzz!
<DktrKranz> NCommander: yes
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: hi
<ma10> directhex: ? :-O
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I rebuilt (almost) everything last night
<jelmer> geser, Thanks, filed a sync request
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: I have got the changes you requested tested by the upstream devels for bug 207760.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207760
<directhex> ma10, don't look for rational logic from some quarters, not when there's teh patentzzz to fear, and micro$haft to disparage
 * NCommander thinks of two-face and his quarter
<DktrKranz> NCommander: I did preliminary tests, and it seems there are only 6 packages involved (5 of them are in your PPA)
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: I mean, the changes tested as requested by you.
<directhex> ma10, and especially don't let them know there are packages in universe under MS license, released by MS
<NCommander> DktrKranz, Your right, only five packages build-dep on gnat-4.1
<ma10> directhex: uhuh but last time i check the euro parliament voted against
<jelmer> ScottK-laptop, no problem, as long as we agree on what the situation is :-) There is a lot of misinformation out there
<NCommander> But I thought the goal was to remove gnat-4.1 totally so everything is consistant
<ma10> directhex: really?
<directhex> ma10, really! check /usr/share/doc/ironpython/copyright
<directhex> Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation.
<ma10> $ apt-get purge ms* :D
<directhex> Microsoft Public License (Ms-PL)
<directhex> Ms-PL is DFSG-free, before moaning begins
<directhex> infact, Ms-PL includes a patent grant
<ma10> directhex: nooo don't give more ammo to the anti-mono crew
<DktrKranz> NCommander: well... since gnat-4.1 is stable and in good shape, we should transition those which have been rebuilt against 4.2 with issues (hardcoded deps, FTBFS, and so on)
<nxvl> i wouldn't trust microsft even if they said it's open
<nxvl> but yes, it's Free Software compilant
<directhex> Ms-PL is actually a nice license, reading through it
<nxvl> at least it seems to be
<NCommander> directhex, ok, fair enough, then can we zap gnat-4.1 from ntrepid ;-)?
<nxvl> class is over
<directhex> NCommander, you can zap anything you like, as long as it's not mono-related. perhaps you mean DktrKranz?
<nxvl> read you later
 * NCommander zaps directhex 
<directhex> sorry, i'm mono-related
<NCommander> I know, we need to steriallize you before people get sick :-P
 * NCommander recently got sick of mono
<NCommander> DktrKranz, which package do I need to add?
<NCommander> (there might be a bug with libgtkada I need to resolve first though)
<stefanlsd> Is there a list of requirements for being accepted as a UUC?
<DktrKranz> NCommander: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyGnatTransition, those which have "need to be fixed" in bold
<NCommander> wiki. so. slow.
 * NCommander dies
<DktrKranz> tuxmaniac: cool
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I didn't build gnat-gps before of a build-deps issue I'm trying to work out
<NCommander>   libgtkada-2.8: Depends: libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.20.5) but 1.20.1-1 is to be installed
<NCommander> That's the issue
<DktrKranz> I tried to figure out a good dependency chain for SRUs too. asis is the first, libaws comes next and the remaining ones will follow
<NCommander> Argh, libgtkada-2.8 only has shlibs:Deepend on its package list >.<;
<DktrKranz> NCommander: did you have -updates available?
<NCommander> er
<DktrKranz> I didn't get that
<NCommander> Well
<NCommander> THat fixed that
<NCommander> Fixing and building gnat-gps
<NCommander> anyway, the order is as follows
<DktrKranz> nice to know, GNOME packages are not our business
<NCommander> asis -> libtemplate -> adacontrol|gnade -> gnat-gps
<DktrKranz> is libtemplates-parser affected too?
<NCommander> That's build from libtemplate
<DktrKranz> mh, I didn't get it
<DktrKranz> probably I missed it
<NCommander> gnat-gps has no hardcoded dependency ong nat-4.1
<NCommander> (although its build-deps do, so it probably needs a binary rebuild
<NCommander> python/src/python_support.c:21:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory
<NCommander> Bah
<StevenK> NCommander: Epic Fail! You loos!
<NCommander> StevenK, no, you loose for typing on loose ;-)
<StevenK> That was a quote, not a typo
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Then I loos
<NCommander> Bah, whoever packaged this didn't read the Debian policy
<StevenK> Actually, it was. You looz
<StevenK> http://www.pvponline.com/2008/06/30/interlude-the-adventures-of-lolbat/
<NCommander> w.r.t. to python
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: can you please sponsor the upload? It will close one bug :-)
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> So
<NCommander> which versions of python do we support in hardy?
<NCommander> 2.5, or 2.4-2.5?
<laga> yay, packages.ubuntu.com is down
<DktrKranz> tuxmaniac: I'll subscribe to it, I'll try to do it tonight. Ping me otherwise, high chances to forget about it :)
<tuxmaniac> DktrKranz: ok. thanks a lot. :-)
<NCommander> I didn't even know you could write python modules in ada
<NCommander> DktrKranz, do you want me to fix this python issue? The problem is properly fixing it will likely be an invasive change to the package (not sure yet, but probably have to split it)
<NCommander> Or I can disable python support since its broken on Hardy, and then fix it in intrepid
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ping?
<sebner> dholbach: around?
<dholbach> sebner: yes
<sebner> dholbach: what a shame. 2 bad sync requests xD though I forgot to mention that in my opinion the homepage patch for midori isn't worth keeping. what do you think?
<dholbach> sebner: bug number?
<sebner> dholbach: bug #236493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236493 in midentd "Please sync midentd 2.3.1-4 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236493
<sebner> argh
<sebner> sry
<sebner> dholbach: bug #
<sebner> 258627
<sebner> bug #258627
<jpds> Fail.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258627 in midori "Please sync midori 0.0.19-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258627
<sebner> xD xD xD
<sebner> jpds: overkill
<dholbach> sebner: you could just subscribe the author of the patch from last time and ask if it's still necessary to keep it
<sebner> dholbach: I think necessary yes but worth it!?!
<dholbach> I don't have much of an opinion about that, I think it generally makes sense
<sebner> dholbach: because it changes just one line. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12087774/01-default_homepage.patch
<Iulian> One single line can do a lot.
<sebner> Iulian: It can but it haven't to
<directhex> Iulian, it can even remove entropy from ssl!
<dholbach> sebner: if you and LucidFox (I think) decide to drop it, drop it
<dholbach> I'm going to call it a day now
<sebner> dholbach: I'll talk to him about it. thx and sry for the noise :)
<dholbach> have a great weekend everybody! :)
<sebner> dholbach: you too :D
<persia> sebner: I'm in favour of homepage patches for all the browsers.
<sebner> persia: because? take over the world with ubuntu.com startsites? ^^
<persia> sebner: Because the Ubuntu home page points to a number of useful Ubuntu resources.
<persia> Also because I think it's inappropriate to have significant Debian branding in Ubuntu: Debian folk get enough bugs from Ubuntu users as it is.
<sebner> persia: sure :) but what about uploading uqm instead of caring for homepage patches :P
<DktrKranz> NCommander: not sure... it depends how much invasive your change is
<NCommander> Pretty invasive :-/
<persia> sebner: It's in the queue, there's just a backlog.  It's even near the top of things I'll upload.
<NCommander> I need to make it build the same package twice
<sebner> persia: good to hear =)
<NCommander> Its probably cleaner just to turn off python support in hardy, then fix it in intrepid
<DktrKranz> probably
<NCommander> (python is broken in hardy anyway)
<NCommander> I'll do that for now, and then we'll wait on the SRU team to tell us otherwise
<stefanlsd> .
<siretart> ScottK-laptop: I might have missed that point, but the list I asked to prioritize was specifically about features in malone, not for soyuz or launchpad in general
<siretart> ScottK-laptop: I have a preliminary list for soyuz as well, but I already wrote kiko an email that I'm missing quite some items on that list. and it was only about half a dozen specs
<ScottK-laptop> siretart: OK.  Speed and bad U/I are an issue in Malone.
<ScottK-laptop> I try to know as little as possible about the internal architecture of Launchpad as possible.
<siretart> ScottK-laptop: in general, I agree
<ScottK-laptop> I think it's better that those two point go on all the lists rather than be allocated to some global list that may or may not exist or be passed to developers in the specific component.
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<ScottK> NCommander: This is probably the channel to discuss the key team policy.
<NCommander> er, yeah, I put it in the wrong window
<NCommander> I was just pinging him so he was aware I took care of it
<ScottK> I agree and per the process (that I still haven't written in the wiki) it's up to you to say so and anyone who disagrees to appeal to MC.
<NCommander> Its a good thing for you the meeting was canceled :-P
 * NCommander uses the stick of lazyness to motivate scottk to update the wiki
<NCommander> My brain is semi fried at the moment
<firstman> hi
<jpds> Yay for LP karma from commits.
<sebner> jpds: karma hunter :P
<jpds> sebner: Aren't we all?
<sebner> jpds: of course we are :D
<sebner> apachelogger: ping mighty harald :P
<apachelogger> meh
<apachelogger> just wanted to leave
<apachelogger> sebner: sup?
<sebner> apachelogger: we now stick to marble-kde4 right? cause normal marble is 0.4 and I could sync 0.6 from debian
<apachelogger> marble-kde4 should be marble really
<apachelogger> !info marble intrepid
<ubottu> marble (source: kdeedu): Marble globe and map widget. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.1.0-0ubuntu4 (intrepid), package size 163 kB, installed size 548 kB
<sebner> apachelogger: well 4.1 != 0.6 :P
<apachelogger> sebner: please file a package removal bug and poke some motu to review it and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<apachelogger> the marble source package is superseded by kdeedu
<sebner> apachelogger: okidoki
<apachelogger> sebner: ubuntu wiki describes what content such a bug should have
 * apachelogger is out for tonight
<apachelogger> cya
<sebner> apachelogger: baba
<emgent> hello
<rawler> roughly when will universe be frozen for intrepid?
<jpds> 28th.
<ScottK-laptop> Depends on what you mean by frozen.
<ScottK-laptop> For new packages, as jpds says.  We'll be doing bug fix uploads until probably late Sunday night or early Monday morning before the release.
<rawler> oki.. thanks.. :)
<rawler> any chance whatsoever to get tetzle (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tetzle) in there?
<ScottK-laptop> Slim.
<rawler> oki.. :S too bad..
<rawler> oh, well.. there's always intrepid+1..
<rawler> or, well, not always.. it's 6 more months, but.. :)
<ScottK-laptop> In the mean time, if you get involved in bug fixing, you'll be better known, probably do better packaging and improve your odds significantly for the next time around.
<rawler> ScottK-laptop:  good idea.. though, to be honest, I'm quite short on time and energy these days.. work has me waaay too occupied.. I packaged tetzle mostly because it's something I use myself, and I try to avoid installing stuff outside the packages managers..
<rawler> but, with the new harvest system, I may scour for bugs once in a while and fix what I can.. :)
<tbielawa> hey everybody
<tbielawa> Is anyone around that could please give me some REVU's on this upload? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lucidlife
<xnevermore> Is it more appropriate to use "debuild -S" or debuild -S -sa"?
<Riddell> xnevermore: -sa is for when you need to include the .orig.tar.gz
<Riddell> so use it the first time it gets uploaded
<xnevermore> When would it be ok to just use "debuild -S"?
<xnevermore> for patches, i guess?
<bobbo> xnevermore: yep
<xnevermore> In the case of a new upstream version package, is best to send the .diff.gz file to launchpad, or the .debdiff?
<cody-somerville> the .diff.gz
<xnevermore> awesome
<Raybuntu> Hi all! Is it possible to build packages for debian with pbuilder on Ubuntu? Can I change the distribution for pbuilder?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> yes
<Raybuntu> how can I do this?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> Have a look at the PbuilderHowto
<Raybuntu> ok!
<Kopfgeldjaeger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple%20pbuilders
<Raybuntu> Is it possible to have more than one distribution for pbuilder at one time?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> sure...
<Raybuntu> Oh yeah!
<Raybuntu> Thx Kopfgeldjaeger
<directhex> that pbuilderrc script rules.
<NCommander> Hola directhex
<directhex> morning
<NCommander> directhex, how goes your vb.net packaging?
<directhex> <CIA-5> debian-pkg-mono: directhex-guest * r3700 /mono-basic/trunk/debian/changelog: Fix revision to correctly reflect changes in -2 version
<NCommander> yay
<NCommander> nxvl, your REVU account is fixed
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/ - the i386 PPA builder really isn't happy
<nxvl> NCommander: no it's not
<NCommander> Been screwing with my attempts to package xfce all day :-/
<nxvl> NCommander: i'm using OpenID login, user nvalcarcel
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> Now you tell me
<NCommander> :-p!
<nxvl> :D
 * NCommander hits you with xfce
<nxvl> need to go
<nxvl> bbl
<nxvl> read you later
<leleobhz> NCommander: offtopic: have some logic for build machines names?
<NCommander> Why would I know?
 * leleobhz dunno
<leleobhz> :]
<NCommander> They look like element and color names
<NCommander> yellow/gold
<leleobhz> but what matches palmer?
 * NCommander thought of Final Fantasy VII
 * NCommander pokes his new launchpad badgeds
<leleobhz> Weeee! :p
<NCommander> http://launchpad.net/~sonicmctails
<NCommander> What's new :-)
<leleobhz> Tomorrow news: Sega buys launchpad :p
 * directhex changes his name to miles "tails" prower, vows to fight against italian plumbers everywhere
<tbielawa> Will some one please give me some REVU's on this upload? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lucidlife I gotta run home now, but I'd appreciate it greatly
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-23
<bdmurray> The universe-contributors icon seems to be on a white background while most team icons seem to be on a transparent icon...
<Shaba1> Hello stani
<foxbuntu> someone have time to explain something to me, if I were to create a new package with code from someone else's code, I provide where it came from, the author's information, and all other copyright information but maintain the source for the package on my own correct, the get-orig-source rule is not supposed to pull from some where other than where the package's source is (not its upstream source)?
<RAOF> foxbuntu: get-orig-source should (probably) get the most recent upstream tarball.  The code that the package is packaging.
<foxbuntu> RAOF, ok makes sense, but the file in the package should be showing up in the diff then correct?
<RAOF> foxbuntu: "the file in the package"?  What file?
<foxbuntu> s/file/files (the source code in the package)
<foxbuntu> RAOF, essentially just the same as if I was the original source author
<foxbuntu> the only difference is the orig tarball comes from an upstream source
<RAOF> I'm not sure what you're saying.
<tgm4883_laptop> RAOF, he wants to know if all the files in orig.tar.gz should be in the diff
<RAOF> No.
<foxbuntu> RAOF, even if they are in the package?
<RAOF> The diff is the changes you make to the upstream .orig.tar.gz to turn it into a source package; generally, only the debian/ directory should be there.
<foxbuntu> RAOF, ok I understand
<nxvl> any motu up?
<wgrant> nxvl: Am I not looking at one?
<nxvl> wgrant: yep but i need a second ACK
<wgrant> Ah. A new package? That discounts me.
<nxvl> wgrant: is a web app
<nxvl> wgrant: from dustin
<persia> wgrant: You're opposed to new packages now?
<wgrant> persia: In all but exceptional cases.
<persia> Makes sense.  We've a really poor track record of actually maintaining any of them.
<nxvl> that's why i use to upload to debian and sync to ubuntu
<nxvl> :D
<wgrant> That is what one should do, yes.
<persia> Yeah, that's better as it means someone is then responsible for it being updated, or it gets removed,
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> people use to upload to ubuntu and forget about their packages
<persia> Well, some people.  I've also seen some packages that get maintained.  The trick is that it's hard to know in advance.
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> you can know that some people will maintain it
<jscinoz> Hi
<nxvl> as the package i'm asking for the 2nd ACK
<jscinoz> I was working on a package for debian (google-gadgets) and i decided to post it to REVU so it could possibly get into intrepid before the freeze in a few days, if someone could review the package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=google-gadgets) it would be greatly appreciated.
<persia> nxvl: No, you can't.  We've had packages which were brought in by very active people who are still active, but just haven't checked the bugs on that package or whether there was a new upstream.
<persia> It's more a matter of best guess than anything else.
<nxvl> agreed
<nxvl> then i retract myself from what i said
<nxvl> and btw
<nxvl> talking about retractions
<nxvl> persia: i've been following Dustin applications
<persia> nxvl: Yes?
<nxvl> persia: and i understand your concerns, but in favor of Dustin i need to say that the core of his work is on uptream
<nxvl> he has an interesting model of work
<nxvl> he hack and patches upstream
<nxvl> and then imports it to ubuntu
<nxvl> so he may doesn't have a lot of ubuntu specific uploads into universi
<nxvl> but he has a lot of code into universe
<persia> nxvl: I understand.  As I think I made clear, I've no issues with him technically.  Also, to me it seems that the discussion is quieting: I'm not sure why there have been no other votes.
<nxvl> does that count as indirect contributions?
<persia> I didn't vote against him, just didn't vote because of the previous MC voting procedures (which have now been changed)
<nxvl> persia: geser said he has no time, i don't understad why nixternal hasn't vote
<nxvl> persia: yeah, i know, and that's cool, since there are nothing to complain about him, that's why i understand a retraction, but i would't understand a negative vote
<nxvl> persia: i think nixternal is waiting for more discussion
<persia> nxvl: I'm glad you understand.  Some of the mail makes me feel like I've voted against him, or that I'm somehow blocking him, which isn't very comfortable.
<nxvl> persia: but what i meant is, despide of the techical thing, which is clear we haven't any complains on that part, he has do a lot of contributions to universe, but not directly
<nxvl> being that pushing code tu upstream and them import it into ubuntu
<wgrant> I am pleased that discussion was able to continue. In the past everybody just gave their +1s and candidates were approved with minimal discussion, in cases where they should have perhaps not been.
<persia> nxvl: Right, and I suspect that might be part of the issue.  He does immense amounts of work, much of which is good, but is it work done explicitly for Ubuntu?
<nxvl> persia: and also some comments for some people on other applicants aplications
<nxvl> persia: in upstream yes
<persia> wgrant: I'm very glad to hear that.  Thank you.  I feel a little bad, because Dustin's work is good in my technical review, but still stand by my decision to allow discussion.
<nxvl> persia: i've talked large with him since we are on the server team and we work together most of the time
<nxvl> persia: and for example, for ecryptfs he didn't patch the ubuntu package
<nxvl> persia: he started to work with upstream, and when the tools was in good shape ask upstream to release and then include it in ubuntu
<persia> nxvl: Right.  I understand.  His name appears all over the place, with a lot of work done completely upstream or in Debian.
<wgrant> persia: I fully support that decision.
<nxvl> and the goeal of all that work was specificaly for ubunut
<nxvl> so it's work made for ubuntu, but not directly
<persia> nxvl: Understood.  I'm fairly undecided on the question of whether one must work *in* Ubuntu to work *on* Ubuntu.  I have a preference for stronger teams, and think that there is value in having MOTU be a team, rather than just an upload permission bit.
<nxvl> he's just making it backwards
<nxvl> be use to patch ubuntu packages
<nxvl> and then push our changes to upstream and then sync
<persia> But that preference isn't strong enough to make me say we should exclude those who do upstream work.
<nxvl> but he pushes his changes to upstream and then import them to ubuntu
<nxvl> which i find a good workflow
<persia> nxvl: Taking the argument for the sake of debate, rather than personal opinion:
<persia> Sure, but how does commit access to Ubuntu help that workflow?
<nxvl> persia: yeah, i'm not trying to change your mind actually, just discussing it on IRC, which i find better than using ML
<persia> nxvl: For quick discussions, I agree.  For many discussions, I prefer the mailing list just because it has a wider audience.
<nxvl> yeah
<nxvl> this time i'm extending the discussion
<nxvl> i use to discuss things on IRC and then go to ML
<persia> So, back to my devil's advocate question: how does commit access to Ubuntu help an upstream-focused workflow?
<nxvl> persia: for better/quick inclussion of the new upstream version
<nxvl> also at some point upstream inclussion is not permited anymore
<nxvl> so i expect to see more work from dustin after FF
<persia> nxvl: So why would it not be appropriate to evaluate involvement after that work has been presented?
<nxvl> and i also agree that he doesn't show to much here and doesn't use the normal workflow for sponsorship, since he pings canonical employees and/or specific people to sponsor his work, instead of using uus and this channel
<persia> nxvl: Right, which are the two sides of the debate.
<persia> I think geser put it best when talking about the wave/particle thing.  What is MOTU?  Is it a team, or people who can upload or both?
<nxvl> persia: actually that's what i mean. Given the actual state of his application i expect to see more work from him from this week on, and then maybe change one more MC member mind to give a positive vote
<persia> I don't know the answer to that question, but I think it's worth discussion.  I feel bad that Dustin specifically got hit by the discussion, but given the way we work, a couple weeks rarely makes a difference.
<nxvl> i actually disagree on that
<nxvl> i count contributors as part of the MOTU team
<nxvl> without commit access
<nxvl> but part of the team
<persia> I consider contributors a vital and critical part of the Ubuntu Development team, but not yet MOTU.
<nxvl> that depends on what MOTU means for you
<persia> nxvl: Right, which is the core thing.
<nxvl> exactly
<persia> To me, MOTU is the "Masters of the Universe": the people who are ultimately responsible for making sure that the universe component is as good as we can make it be.
<nxvl> development is a BIG part of the MOTU team, and the core of it
<persia> This has nothing to do with upload rights.
<nxvl> but we still have community
<nxvl> which is also an important part of it
<persia> See, I completely fail to understand any distinction between development and community.
<persia> Ubuntu is a commity-driven distribution, and Ubuntu Developers (whether Core, MOTU, or UUC) are all community members who are contributing with development work.
<persia> Many members of those teams also participate in other factors of the Ubuntu community.
<persia> I very much feel that having a separate "MOTU" community is the wrong direction: we are all part of the Ubuntu Community, and MOTU is a team that tries to reach certain goals in that community.
<nxvl> as i see it, development is hang here, make patches, fix bugs and review some consitrbutions, and community is teach new people, convince them to jump in and make it easy to them to start
<persia> That said, it still leaves open the question as to whether this is because of upload rights or because of membership in the team by accolation.
<persia> nxvl: See, I don't see the difference between those things.
<persia> Getting people involved is often a matter or working with their bugs (or fixing them), and making Ubuntu better for them.
<nxvl> persia: because you take care of the 2 parts, but not all of the members
<persia> Reviewing contributions isn't that different than teaching new people.
<persia> nxvl: Except I claim that the difference is artifical, and use of such separate terms is a semantic construction that encourages discrimination within the Ubuntu community, a practice that I do not believe leads to the ultimate growth of Ubuntu.
<nxvl> oh yeah i just read a previus comment of you, i'm not separating it as in 2 different team
<nxvl> what i was trying to say is that you can contribute to MOTU community directly without the help of no-one, oposite to development that you need a sponsort or commit access
<persia> nxvl: No, but you use different terms, which then allows the asking of the question "Is this person involved in development or community", which I don't think is a meaningful question.
<nxvl> agreed
<persia> You support the idea that there is a distinction by saying "persia: because you take care of the 2 parts, but not all of the members", which I also think is meaningless.
<persia> I don't know of any MOTU who is not part of the community (and if you do, please let me know), and I don't know of any MOTU who does not do any development (and if there is one, they ought be encouraged to come back and help more)
<nxvl> yes, i thing i said it wrong
<nxvl> what i was trying to say is that you don't need to be a MOTU with upload rights to be part of the MOTU community
<nxvl> which was the original discussion
<persia> nxvl: No worries.  The idea that there is a separate "community" within Ubuntu is an unfortunate meme that has spread far: it is not surprising to see it repeated, as much as I neither understand why it is present, or how to destroy it.
<persia> See, again, I don't think there is a separate "MOTU" community.  There is a separate Ubuntu Development community, as much as I would prefer there not to be, but I do not beleive there is any value in creating sharper distinctions within our ranks.
<nxvl> what i've notice in the ubuntu community in general, in difference from the others starts with the end users
<persia> See, I think we all ought focus on that.  We are, after all, end users.
<nxvl> yes, but different end users
<persia> How?
<nxvl> for example: a common gentoo user know what he is doing and has somehow technical skills, oposite to ubuntu that targets to the less technical users
<persia> While I can say that I am a developer, and an expert with certain things, there are areas of the system that I don't understand.
<persia> I've had bugs that annoy me for years, but aren't sufficiently annoying for me to want to fix them.
<nxvl> same with debian, they somehow knows what he's doing and/or needs to investigate to do stuff
<persia> Either I am an end-user, sharing the same annoyances as everyone else, and therefore part of a large community, or I am separated into being a developer, who is being irresponsible by not fixing the bugs.  I choose the former because the latter is simply too disenheartening.
<nxvl> persia: yes, but you understand how an aplication works, my mom doesn't
<persia> nxvl: No, my point was that I don't understand how some applications work.
<nxvl> persia: and the objetive ubuntu users are users like my mom
<persia> No, the target Ubuntu users are everyone.  Your Mom and you and I.
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> but make it as easy as it can so my mom can use it
<persia> I have no interest in making a distribution that works for your Mom.  I work on Ubuntu because I find it the best way to get others to work on Ubuntu because I am unhappy that Ubuntu doesn't work the way I want.
<RAOF> I'd prefer to make it easy for _me_ to use it.
<persia> It's entirely selfish, and entirely to improve my own computing experience.
<RAOF> If this happens to make it easy for someone else (and it almost certainly will), all the better.
<nxvl> so the core and mayority of the users are mom-users (to stop mentioning my mom) so the percentage of posible developers are less that in other distributions
<persia> On the other hand, if this happens to benefit your Mom, that's a good thing, and makes me feel warm and tingly inside.
<persia> RAOF: Precisely.
<persia> nxvl: See, that's divisive argument.
<persia> One of the things I remember most fondly about my involvement with Ubuntu was back in Hoary: a 9 year old joined #ubuntu looking for a photo management application.  pornview was perfectly suited for his needs, but he couldn't install it because of the name.
<persia> In Dapper, that same person ended up submitting some very insightful bugs that helped make Dapper better.
<nxvl> what i mean is: for each 100 ubuntu users 20 or more know a program language and can become DD one day
<nxvl> in ubuntu that 5 over 100
<nxvl> err
<persia> Now, that person isn't around so much (high school in the US can be very distracting), but I think the contribution was good, and I think the goal ought be to encourage more users to do that sort of thing.
<nxvl> 100/20 for debian
<persia> nxvl: Yes, but you miss the point.
<RAOF> _Everyone_ can become a DD one day; everyone can become a MOTU one day.
<persia> The point is that if we are all part of the same community, and we all work together, sharing what we can, we get something better.
<foxbuntu> "Linux for Human Beings"
<persia> If we say "You're not a developer" or "You don't have any technical skills" the users become mere consumers, rather than part of the community.
<nxvl> RAOF: if you are interested on it, and that's the difference between the 20 and the rest
<nxvl> RAOF: not the actual techinical skills
<RAOF> nxvl: Right.
<persia> I do some user support for ubuntustudio.  Typically it's the end users who claim they have no technical skills that are able to track down some problem so we can get it fixed.
<foxbuntu> I am very technical and a Dev for the Mythbuntu Project and some normal issues slip by my view simply because I am not thinking from a non-technical user's perspective, a linux user is part of the community regardless of their involvement of it progressions
<persia> foxbuntu: Yes, but I contend that those users who feed you stuff *are* directly involved in the improvement of mythbuntu, regardless of how much technical experience they may have.
<foxbuntu> persia, I would agree
<foxbuntu> the users are the most important part of a development project
<persia> Indeed, and that includes all users, including those of us involved in this conversation.
<nxvl> also you can tell that from the quality of the bug reports
<persia> nxvl: This is a good metric, but generally if one is helpful with those with poor bug reports, the future bug reports from the same source are better.
<nxvl> agreed
<foxbuntu> persia, indeed...I came from very little coding experience and became a developer
<persia> Note also that this applies to people who choose to focus on coding: I've seen lots of bad bug reports from very technically ept people who just couldn't be bothered to write it clearly.
<nxvl> foxbuntu: yes, but you have development interest
<nxvl> at least interest in development
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> i need to go
<nxvl> it was pleasure to discuss with all of you
<nxvl> as always!
<foxbuntu> persia, so, help them, most users even of high technical skill have never delt with bug reports and dont know how to submit useful information
<persia> nxvl: You're looking at it backwards.  Consider the case of Con Kolivas: who had no coding experience, or clear interest, but wanted linux to be better, and got very involved in the kernel.
<persia> foxbuntu: Precisely :)
<nxvl> persia: not actually, that's what i mean, the interest better than the technical background
<foxbuntu> persia, actually for Mythbuntu we have added tools to do just that for the 8.10 cycle
<persia> nxvl: Right, but the interest can be cultivated by creating an inclusive community, which is why I argue against divisive terms.
<persia> foxbuntu: Cool.  Are they highly mythbuntu specific, or can they be generalised more widely?
<nxvl> persia: agreed
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> now that one more discussion ended with persia convincing me
<persia> nxvl: Thanks for letting me stand on a soapbox with you as the apparent object of my rant :)
<nxvl> i'm gone
<persia> Have a good night :)
<foxbuntu> persia, its actually fairly generic...grabs common log data and posts it to pastebin and provides the link through the interface
<nxvl> persia: have a good ...
<persia> :)
<nxvl> afternoon
<nxvl> :D
<jpds> Buenas noches nxvl.
<nxvl> jpds: igualmente!
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> read you
<persia> foxbuntu: Nifty.  Is that as an apport hook, or a separate hook of some sort?
<foxbuntu> persia, all custom, so they can be gathered and posted on demand and its got intergration into the MythTV Frontend for easy access
<foxbuntu> persia, its not as nice as apport but gathers things needed in Mythbuntu land for good bug reports
<foxbuntu> but would work fine for other things
<persia> foxbuntu: Nifty.  Be cool if we could find a way to extend that more generally, with more front-ends.  I can imagine that the discussion in #ubuntu would be more productive if everyone brought along the right logs.
<foxbuntu> persia, certianly could be done
<IntuitiveNipple> Are there any "Build-Depends" exception experts around? I'm trying to figure out how to *prevent* icedtea-java7-jdk satisfying 'java6-jdk'. Debian policy manual doesn't seem to allow ! for package names, only architectures
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Don't use either?
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-July/000460.html
<IntuitiveNipple> It's a package for Gutsy - the Hardy+ versions run okay, but the Gutsy version fails on run because it was built using icedtea - it causes "UnsupportedClassVersionError"
<persia> Ah.  Just build-depend against a specific other package then, perhaps using | construction to optionally allow other providers of java6-jdk
<IntuitiveNipple> The *intention* was to have it build using a java 1.5 compiler, but icedtea-satisfied the build-depends. I was hoping to keep the same control file for each version to save having to maintain separate strands but... !
 * persia doesn't really think icedtea belonged in gutsy anyway, and is surprised that anything was built against it, given the date on which it was uploaded
<IntuitiveNipple> Am I correct in thinking the or operator in build depends will cause the first package available to be installed?
<IntuitiveNipple> Yeah, it is a pain. I've packaged the latest red5 Flash server for Gutsy Hardy & Intrepid, but just found out (on my own server) that the Gutsy edition has this 'problen' so trying to figure out an elegant solution
<IntuitiveNipple> Ideally it looks like the Gutsy package needs to build-depend on java2-compiler
<persia> The | operator will install the package first named in the sequence if none is installed, but not force the installation if there is already one of the mentioned packages listed.
<IntuitiveNipple> Yeah.. so the former situ on a buildd where none should already be installed
<persia> Does it build cleanly with java2-compiler?
<IntuitiveNipple> Not tried yet! It builds cleanly for all of them, it just doesn't *run* !
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: For modern buildds, that is frequently the case, although there still exist some buildds that would preserve previous installed packages in ther interests of speed (but I think none that are default buildds for any distributions)
<IntuitiveNipple> I did extensive build-tests locally before it went up to PPA, and was testing locally on the openjdk6-jre for running it so didn't think to suspect this issue
<persia> Ah.  Maybe it needs a different JRE to run?  There've been a few packages that could build cleanly with anything, but required certain JREs to actually run.
<persia> Conversely, there was at least one package that needed specific (and different) versions to build and run at one point (although I think it's fixed now)
<IntuitiveNipple> I've tried all the available JREs on Gutsy all give the same problem, and reading up on the exception basically says "don't compile it with icedtea - it messes things up"
<IntuitiveNipple> Hence trying to figure out how to ensure
<IntuitiveNipple> sun-java6-jdk is used (which provides java2-compiler)
<persia> Build-Depends: ... sun-java6-jdk | java2-compiler ...
<IntuitiveNipple> yeah, I thought of that but... I would prefer the Hardy/Intrepid packages to build with openjdk ... and annoyingly the provides of the Sun and OpenJDK and icedtea packages don't coincide
<IntuitiveNipple> I'l probably end up having to have two different control files, to make this sane
<IntuitiveNipple> Not too much of an issue since I have automated build/publish scripts that already re-write changelog for each release... I can extend that to look for and use an alternate control if it is there.
<asomething> Hey, i was away for awhile but just read the above conversation between some (persaia, nxvl, foxbuntu) and part of it made me wonder why REVU exists at all. I maintain two packages in Debian. Now I realize it was the best path to take as more people can use them, but the reason I submitted my first Debian package was that it sat in REVU for over a month without even a comment. Why doesn't Ubuntu just send people that way to begin
<persia> asomething: It's mostly because there is a matter of debate.  Some believe we should have new packages in Ubuntu.  Some believe we shouldn't.
<persia> Members of the first school created REVU as a means to ensure that if new packages were being added to Ubuntu, they were of good quality, and had been submitted for peer review.
<persia> Personally, although I'm not so much a fan of new packages, I'm a huge supporter of REVU, as I believe that if we are going to have new packages, getting them peer reviewed is the right way to do it.
<IntuitiveNipple> I guess the PPAs do a curve-ball around REVU now?
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Well, many Ubuntu Developers mostly ignore the PPAs as examples of packaging being done.
<IntuitiveNipple> not as examples, I mean to get packages published quickly
<persia> At UDS Boston there was talk about using PPAs as part of a review process, but due to the nature of the way that PPAs are implemented, this turns out not to work at all in practice.
<IntuitiveNipple> I know for all my packages I spend many hours ensuring the packages are absolutely correct.
<IntuitiveNipple> I've even had to learn how to format man-pages :D
<persia> Well, there's a difference between publishing in a PPA and publishing in Ubuntu.  PPAs are really just a way to host a third-party repo without building the infrastructure oneself.  It comes from good ideas, but in execution, it's left a fair amount to be desired, and is for a long time was unusable by distribution developers.
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: Right, and I suspect that comes from your initial experiences with peer review :)
<asomething> I guess  I understand the point of of REVU, but maybe there should be a more explicit attempt at sending people willing to maintain packages to Debian. Especially since debian.mentors has been more responsive in my case than REVU...
<persia> asomething: It depends on timing.  At the time of REVU creation, m.d.o was fairly unresponsive.  Right now, m.d.o is fairly responsive, and REVU is mostly unresponsive.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: no, I've never been involved in 'official' packaging. It comes from my being a perfectionist :D
<asomething> with an new stable Debian release coming up, this might change... priority is going to RC bugs.
<persia> I'm not sure the scale won't top back in time.  Ideally, they would both be responsive, or the many-times-mooted idea of building a new m.d.o that included some of the REVU features for wide public review for insertion into Debian, with participation from both distribuitions.
<persia> would be actualised
<persia> IntuitiveNipple: I know better than that: I've seen your name in changelogs.
<IntuitiveNipple> persia: huh?
<persia> asomething: Indeed.  It goes back and forth.
<IntuitiveNipple> I've not done anything official... aside from occasionally reporting bugs
<asomething> persia: infact, I've got an update to one of my packages sitting on mentors now for ten days. longest time without a reply yet... I think I'll have to do a Ubuntu revision to get in before the Intrepid FF. I'd prefer to sync, but it's better to get it in...
<persia> asomething: If ten days is the longest time without a reply, m.d.o has gotten *much* better, and it definitely the place for people to go now.
<persia> At the time of REVU's creation, m.d.o would be months without a reply.
<IntuitiveNipple> These codes... what is m.d.o ?
<asomething> persia: m.d.o has been very responsive. the site its self is nice as well
<asomething> mentors.debian.org
<persia> asomething: Indeed, which is a good thing :)
<asomething> ^^ IntuitiveNipple:
<persia> (especially because REVU has been *so* inactive this cycle)
<IntuitiveNipple> So, if I've packaged stuff and put it in my PPA, what might be different if I was to 'backport' it for inclusion in Debian? Presumably I've got to 'pbuilder' it for Debian too? How about the fact the number of architectures supported?
<persia> Generally it's best to test it against Debian, but the differences should be fairly minor.
<persia> Note that some packagses will depend on Ubuntu-specific bits, like branded Mozilla apps or differences in the Ubuntu kernel, and these need a bit more tweaking.
<IntuitiveNipple> Yeah, I think that would be an issue for me, and the extra 'hassle' of figuring out the issues isn't something I'd want on top of the existing process!
<persia> It's mostly just a matter of testing.  For 99% of packages, there's no strong reason for divergence.
<asomething> IntuitiveNipple:  you should check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple%20pbuilders
<IntuitiveNipple> asomething: :D  http://tjworld.net/wiki/Linux/Ubuntu/Packages/CreatingPbuilderVariations
<asomething> IntuitiveNipple: that looks better, guess you know ;-)
<IntuitiveNipple> hehehe
<IntuitiveNipple> all my build/testing is automated her
<IntuitiveNipple> s/her/here/
<asomething>  IntuitiveNipple: just looked you up (LP people search, not some strange government database) , you should put more things up for inclusion... you seem more than qualified...
<IntuitiveNipple> Persia has been trying to persuade me of that.
<asomething> if they let smucks like me in the archive (not a MOTU just through sponsors and Debian), someone like you would be a great addition :)
<IntuitiveNipple> I'm already busy with kernel stuff, packaging is just a sideline :)
<xnevermore> How does one handle a package version such as 2.10.33-2.2build1?
<RAOF> xnevermore: That's surely not the upstream version, right?
<xnevermore> no
<xnevermore> i'd just never seen an ubuntu package named as such, and am not sure how to increment it
<RAOF> Ah, right.
<RAOF> The 'build1' suffix indicates that it's needed a no-change rebuild.
<xnevermore> no-change?
<persia> Well, changelog changes only.
<RAOF> No source changes, just a changelog entry.
<RAOF> So the next Ubuntu revision of that package would be 2.10.33-2.2ubuntu1
<xnevermore> ahhh... what about the number before ubuntu/build? I thought it was supposed to be either a 1 or 0, and certainly not decimal pointed
<jpds> xnevermore: Decimal indicates security update.
<xnevermore> hmm... well a 1 means debian derived, a 0 means its not, so what does 2.2 mean exactly?
<xnevermore> and IS it a debian package or ubuntu?
<RAOF> It's derived from the -2.2 debian package.
<RAOF> Because we needed a rebuild, someone added a changelog entry and uploaded the build1 package.
<RAOF> Currently it's exactly the same source as the 2.10.33-2.2 Debian package.
<xnevermore> ok, that seems reasonable enough.
<persia> jpds: Not necessarily a security upload.  Could be all sorts of reasons for an NMU that resulted in something like -2.2
<jpds> persia: Right.
<fatal_> Hi. Does MOTU handle pulling in updates from Debian as well? I just came to say that you might want to pull in the latest iproute package, which was given a freeze exception to go into Lenny. It fixes some bugs, but maybe most importantly the version you're currently carrying differs from all other versions in it's output syntax (which was reverted in the new version).
<fatal_> I see no reason that updating should cause you any problems.
<DktrKranz> fatal_, iproute is in main, you may want to file a new sync request to have it in intrepid before FF.
<fatal_> DktrKranz: I'm not up to speed on how things work in ubuntu, would you mind doing it for me? :)
<jpds> fatal_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<fatal_> I guess it's not too much to care about though.... not like your next version will be a long time support (AFAIK), so it'll only last 6 months.
<fatal_> bye!
<jpds> Hmm.
<Ampelbein> hi! Could someone check on bug #132130? i created a debdiff and would like to know if thats ok.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 132130 in istanbul "istanbul crashed with AttributeError in stop_recording()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132130
<geser> Ampelbein: as istanbul uses quilt for patch management, you should use it to add new patches. And when I read the debian bug it looks like the mentioned patch is already applied in the version in intrepid.
<Ampelbein> geser: ok, thanks for the info.
<gnomefreak> can someone give me an idea on why this is failing? all i did was change control maintainers* and changelog http://pastebin.mozilla.org/523414
<RAOF> gnomefreak: The clean target doesn't work, apparently.
<RAOF> cannot represent change to smartirc4net-0.4.5.1/bin/Meebey.SmartIrc4net.dll.mdb: binary file contents changed <
<RAOF> That file should be removed on clean.
<gnomefreak> RAOF: ah ok let me look at it in rules
<gnomefreak> thats odd smuxi has clean: clean-patched unpatch but libsmartirc* doesnt have that line but that wont remove that binary AFAIK
<gnomefreak> yep it fails with that too but gives differnet error
<RAOF> Wow.  The PPA build chroot is horribly broken; my build's just failed unpacking the dependencies!
<gnomefreak> hmm wonder if nobinonly script will help this
<gnomefreak> removing by hand fixes it seems like for good
<gnomefreak> this is gonna fail on PPA i guess i have work to do today
<gnomefreak> thank RAOF
<emgent> moin
<loell> got a noob question,  the rules file is a bash scrip right?
<DktrKranz> Laney, I'm looking at goocanvasmm, sorry for being so late.
<geser> loell: no, debian/rules is a Makefile
<NCommander> geser, it technically can be a bash script, there are a few packages that use that vs. a makefile
<NCommander> I don't remember if policy changed to require it to be a makefile
<geser> NCommander: "This file must be an executable makefile" [http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules]
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> I guess that's been defined then
<loell> NCommander, so basically the syntax is of bash?
<NCommander> THere are no bashisms
<loell> what syntax does it follow then?
<NCommander> Pop open an existing package, and take a look
<NCommander> (hello is a good package to see)
<loell> NCommander,  i'm currently viewing it
<NCommander> its pretty much
<NCommander> target:
<NCommander>    command1
<NCommander>     command2
<NCommander> (remember, use tabs, not spaces)
<loell> what i'd actually like to do, is a costumize parameter for ./configure
<loell> something like
<loell> if amd64 then pass this
<NCommander> Just ./configure *arguement one* *argtwo*, etc.
<loell> NCommander, hang on i'll paste something, try to see what might be wrong with my syntax
<loell> on pastebin
<loell> NCommander, http://paste.ubuntu.com/39900/
<loell> ;)
<NCommander> what's the issue?
<loell> when it build in amd64, it will trigger an error instead of building it
<NCommander> I think you need quotes around --disable-wine
<loell> NCommander, ah i see
<geser> loell: what error do you get?
<loell> gesser, just a sec, accessing my ppa ;)
<loell> geser, https://launchpad.net/~loell/+archive/+build/698157
<loell> oops, its suppose to be http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16992542/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.gyachi_1.1.48-1~ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<loell> geser, basically it just says, dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<geser> loell: looks like configure isn't called at all
<geser> my guess is the indention in your debian/rules
<geser> try either indenting the WINE = ... line or move this ifeq block before the targets
<loell> geser,  ah ok :)
<loell> i'll try both NCommander and your suggestions, it should be somewhere there :)
<loell> thanks both..
<NCommander> morning LucidFox
<stefanlsd> I received this comment - Apps in menu file is deprecated, please adhere to new standard - Anyone know where i can read up about this?
<persia> stefanlsd: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<persia> Oh, sorry.  menu files.
<persia> file:///usr/share/doc/menu/html/ch3.html
<stefanlsd> persia: thanks!
<NCommander> persia, can you help me figure out a transition?
<NCommander> I'm not sure if I can make this work with conflicts/replaces, or if I need to make dummy packages
<james_w> It looks to me like the last wine upload wasn't the right fix, can someone have a look and see if they agree?
<james_w> * Added procps to Build-Depends to make postinst happy.
<james_w> I think it should be in Depends, as the postinst is install-time, not build-time.
<james_w> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16971889/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.lmms_0.3.2-1ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is a build failure that it is causing
<NCommander> Yeah, that looks wrong
<NCommander> It seems you can only have one package in the Replaces field
<jelmer> what's the best way to deal with fixes to a Ubuntu native package (ubuntu-dev-tools)? Should I request a merge for my change in bzr or rather request sponsorship for a built package?
<NCommander> The former I believe in the case of ubuntu-dev-tools, but I may be wrong
<jelmer> NCommander, thanks, will do
<james_w> hey jelmer
<james_w> NCommander: grep-dctrl , -F Replaces -s Package,Replaces < /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_intrepid_main_binary-i386_Packages
<james_w> NCommander: that suggests you can have more than one Package in a Replaces field
<NCommander> Doesnbt' seem to work though
<NCommander> grep-dctrl
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> Conflicts: xfce4-mcs-manager, xfce4-mcs-plugins, xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra
<NCommander> Replaces: xfce4-mcs-manager, xfce4-mcs-plugins, xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra
<NCommander> That's what I have in control
<NCommander> dpkg: considering removing xfce4-mcs-manager in favour of xfce4-settings ...
<NCommander> dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of xfce4-mcs-manager (--auto-deconfigure will help):
<NCommander>  xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra depends on xfce4-mcs-manager (>= 4.4.0)
<james_w> you would need a Provides: to fix that one I think
<NCommander> But I want xfce4-mcs-plugins to be removed
<james_w> NCommander: I think you may be right, you may need a transitional package
<NCommander> ugh
<NCommander> So I need a dummy xfce4-mcs-manager, and one for its plugins?
<NCommander> yuck
<james_w> I would have thought that one for the plugins would do it
<jelmer> hi James
<james_w> it will make apt consider the upgrade of the package in the transaction
<james_w> jelmer: do you have a problem with the NMU of bzr?
<NCommander> I've never made a transitional package before
<jelmer> james_w, no, it looks fine to me
<james_w> jelmer: shall I reply telling them to upload?
<james_w> it will have to go via t-p-u though
<jelmer> james_w, yeah, please do
<james_w> k
<persia> Dummy packages are unfortunate.
<persia> NCommander: What is the specific transition you are trying to accomplish?
<NCommander> xfce4-mcs was removed in xfce upstream
<NCommander> It's no longer used, and conflicts with xfsettings (part of its replacement)
<NCommander> xfce4-mcs-manager needs to be removed on the upgrade, but its rdepends also need to go as they are obsolete)
<NCommander> (we're leaving the libxfce4mcs library in place for now, but the manager software needs to be removed)
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> wait, let me try one last thing
<persia> OK.  You want to Conflict: with everything that should get removed, and only Replace that which you are actually replacing (file overwrite).
<NCommander> Tried that
<NCommander> Didn't work
<persia> Note that the order of the Conflicts: does make a difference (although it's not really supposed to), so you want to Conflicts in the opposite order.
<NCommander> Wish THAT was noted somewhere
<NCommander> Lets see if that fixes it
<NCommander> dpkg: considering removing xfce4-mcs-manager in favour of xfce4-settings ...
<NCommander> No, its still trying to remove mcs-manager first
<persia> With conflicts in the opposite order?  Odd.
<NCommander> (current conflicts line: Conflicts: xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra, xfce4-mcs-plugins, xfce4-mcs-manager )
<persia> Yeah, the policy says it doesn't matter.  The code processes it in the order presented.  Just an accidental effect.
<persia> Oh, because of the Replaces.  Hrm.
<NCommander> I can list the plugins
<NCommander> If they're getting conflicted
<NCommander> THey should get zapped
<persia> No, only if removing them improves the general state of the system.
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> No way to force replaces?
<NCommander> If I can't get this to work, I'll put a dummy package for mcs-plugins/plugins-extra, and use the Breaks control word to make sure things get installed in the right order
<persia> Right.  The dummy package belongs in the -settings source, so that you can drop the source you no longer need.
<NCommander> So is that the right thing to do?
<persia> It's not pleasant, as you'd have to carry the dummy packages until the next LTS.
<NCommander> This is intrepid only
<NCommander> Fortunately
<NCommander> We could do this:
<NCommander> Breaks: xfce4-mcs-plugins (<< 4.5.80), xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra (<< 4.5.80)
<NCommander> Conflicts: xfce4-mcs-manager
<NCommander> Replaces: xfce4-mcs-manager
<james_w> NCommander: you still need them until next LTS+1, so that LTS->LTS works
<NCommander> Ugh
<persia> Intrepid only?  xfce4-mcs-plugins wasn't in hardy?
<NCommander> er, it was going tobe dropped
<NCommander> My bad
 * NCommander remains quiet ;-)
<NCommander> NEC error
<NCommander> (not enough coffee|coke)
<persia> Right.  Try Providing the packages you want to kill.
<james_w> it's also useful to note that in the changelog, as that's a couple of years away, and it's much easier to simply read the changelog, then go back and work out when the packages were around.
<NCommander> I think I tried that before
<persia> Yeah, probably the versioned dependencies then.  Provides doesn't really work with versions.
<NCommander> Nope
<NCommander> Provides doesn't work
<NCommander> I'll add a breaks
<persia> So, does Breaks+Conflicts work?
<NCommander> Trying
<NCommander> Breaks won't work until their are dummy packages
<persia> Why not?
<NCommander> Breaks will prevent xfce4-settings from installing until a version greater then the version number in breaks is installed
<NCommander> (think of it as a versioned conflicts)
<NCommander> Wait
<NCommander> If a package both conflicts, and provides a virtual package
<NCommander> won't that do the trick?
<persia> Right, except you can't Provides a version, so it depends on the dependency of the packages you want to remove in hardy.
<NCommander> But Conflicts forces that package to take over the virtual package
<persia> If it is an unversioned dependences, Conflicts/Provides ought do it.
<NCommander> I'm hoping it works
<NCommander> lets find out
<persia> s/as//
<NCommander> xfce4-mcs-plugins-extra depends on xfce4-mcs-manager (>= 4.4.0)
<NCommander> ARGH!
<NCommander> so close
<NCommander> I think we need dummy packages, no?
<persia> Yes, unfortunately you need a dummy package for versioned provides, and further, you need to carry that dummy until LTS+1
 * NCommander notes it in the README
<NCommander> At least its a low maintenance solution
<persia> That's README.source, right?
<persia> The dummy packages belong in the package that is replacing them, and exist solely in debian/control.
<NCommander> README.Debian I thought
<NCommander> I've never had to use Breaks: before
<NCommander> W: xfce4-settings: package-uses-breaks :-P
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> Found another breakage
<NCommander> But that one is easily to fix in xfce4-session
<NCommander> Hey Daviey
<NCommander> er DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> hey NCommander
 * NCommander hits head on table a few dozen times
<NCommander> DktrKranz, I think we need to talk to motu-sru on how to handle gnat-gps
<DktrKranz> NCommander, I'm gonna speak with myself, then report back
<NCommander> DktrKranz, your MOTU_SRU?
<DktrKranz> one of them
 * NCommander learns something new everyday
<NCommander> It's amazing how you have no idea what hats someone wears
<DktrKranz> actually, none. I used to wear earlier during my bike ride ;)
<NCommander> -_-;
<NCommander> BAD PUN!
<NCommander> DANGER, BAN PUN ALARM
<nixternal> sorry guys for the late vote on kirkland (sorry to you too)...as soon as all of my emails download from not viewing them in about a week, I will cast my vote (within the next 15 minutes....so keep watching) :)
<nixternal> I am up to 11431 emails and counting
<DktrKranz> 11431? I hope it's just spam!
<nixternal> vote cast
<nixternal> no spam in that count
<nixternal> 2 I think total
<persia> NCommander: README is the upstream user-interesting readme file.  README.Debian is the packaging-specific user-interesting readme file.  README.Source is the packaging-specific packager-interesting readme file.
<persia> nixternal: I didn't think anyone was more behind than I.  Nice work :)
<nixternal> nxvl: you still want to do some REVU work?
<nixternal> persia: ya, insane...next week is looking to be even busier
<nixternal> I have been tasked to complete over 140 hours worth of work in 2 weeks...not fun
<nxvl> nixternal: yep
<nxvl> nixternal: let me check look for the link
<nxvl> nixternal: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=musica
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone have a look at this bug #254368
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254368 in openjdk "openjdk-6-jdk should depend on libxt-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254368
<persia> That's better.  Some things are just better over.  Now we can properly concentrate on the interesting questions without having it so tightly associated with specific individuals.
<AnAnt> well, I thought that the question should be on #ubuntu-java since it is openjdk related
<AnAnt> I filed the bug about 2-3 weeks ago , yet no one responded to it
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> unfortunately I got to run now
<AnAnt> bye
<nixternal> nxvl: no no, I meant you are interested in being the REVU Coordinator or a REVU Co-Coordinator? my time is really limited now due to real life work fortunately and unfortunately
<nxvl> nixternal: ah oh! well yes
<nxvl> nixternal: yeah, i have limited time too, but co-coordinating would be awesome
<nxvl> i'm waiting for an answer, that if it's what i expect i will have more time online, and will have more chance to do it
<nxvl> :D
<james_w> nxvl: hey, how you doing?
<james_w> nxvl: I was looking at a problem caused by wine earlier, and I think you saw the same thing, as you made an upload of the package.
<james_w> nxvl: however, I don't think your fix is correct, I think procps should be in Depends, as the postinst is run at install time, not build time.
<james_w> nxvl: is it needed for building too?
<nxvl> james_w: is not on depends?
<james_w> nxvl: I don't think so
<nxvl> yes, procps is in wine Depends
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> yes i understand what you mean
<nxvl> fixing
<james_w> thanks!
<nxvl> james_w: but it won't fix lmms's FTBFS
<james_w> why's that?
<nxvl> james_w: because the problem is starting a module, not with procps itself
<nxvl> james_w: but, it might fix it
<nxvl> i hope it does
<nxvl> but not entirely sure
<james_w> I think this is certainly stopping it, but it may well not be the only problem.
<nxvl> yep, we lose nothing trying
<nxvl> this change wouldn't break anything
<nxvl> won't*
<james_w> congratulations kirkland
<nxvl> james_w: wine accepted, let's wait until it builds and retry lmms
<nxvl> i want a pwnie :(
<nxvl> james_w: lmms is building \o/
<nxvl> james_w: to make wine depend on procfs worked
<sommer>  
<IntuitiveNipple> When you're creating a package that has to specifically Build-Depends on sun-java?-*, is there an 'approved' method of pre-accepting the Sun DLJ licence to prevent the interactive debconf licence-accept question?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-08-24
<emgent> hello
<nhandler> Hi emgent
<emgent> heya nhandler :)
<emgent> kernel 2.6.27 is up
<emgent> woow.
<bdrung> good decision
<emgent> bdrung: uploaded some moment ago in intrepid
<bdrung> already read this
 * sistpoty heads to bed... gn8 everyone
<james_w> nxvl: great, thanks for your help
<Hobbsee> james_w: either way, it's got to be wrong, as procps is in ubuntu-minimal anyway...
<Hobbsee> so it shouldn't be making any difference
<james_w> Hobbsee: oh, interesting
<james_w> so that should be installed in the buildd chroot?
<Hobbsee> i would have thought so - i thought everything in ubuntu-minimal (and possibly standard too) got installed in the chroot.
<james_w> Priority: required
<Hobbsee> yes
<james_w> well, lmms is now built
<james_w> it looks like it's not installed then
<Hobbsee> strange.  might need to hit up a powerful buildd admin for that, then.
<james_w> do the buildds have /proc mounted?
<james_w> if not then the package may be blacklisted
<Hobbsee> not sure
<jdong> against my better judgement, upgrading macbook to Intrepid.
<jdong> figured that's a good way to jumpstart back into Ubuntu mode.
<crimsun> plenty of bugs to triage ;p
<jdong> I figured :)
<jdong> being annoyed by them on a daily matter is the only way to motivate me to divert from back-to-school packing though :D
<jdong> so I've got OS X usability anoyances on the host side, Intrepid bugs on the other side....
<jdong> all that's missing is a good bridge to jump off.
<NCommander> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/24/008201
<NCommander> I
<NCommander> I O_O;
<NCommander> I heard of abusing dpkg but ...
<gnomefreak> anyone using dpkg-buildpackage in Intrepid?
<persia> gnomefreak: I've been using the debuild wrapper, but yes.  Why?
<gnomefreak> persia: dpkg-buildpackage is failing to sign .dsc .diff, i get asked for a  password to sign the tarball but never asks for .dsc ,diff
<gnomefreak> it happens on intrepis system as well as Intrepid chroot, Hardys works fine last time i checkerd
<persia> gnomefreak: Hrm?  You shouldn't be signing either the tarball or the .diff.  Only the .dsc and the .changes file.
<persia> How are you calling dplg-buildpackage?
<gnomefreak> let me try it it shouldnt take long to get the error
<gnomefreak> persia: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524030
<gnomefreak> oh yeah forgot the command i used
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -kA5C42601 -i.bzr   is what i use
<persia> gnomefreak: Your GPG agent isn't working (I don't use one when I build on intrepid).  You can use debsign to try to sign them again.
<persia> Why do you use -k?  That should only be required when you are sponsoring someone else's work.
<gnomefreak> persia: not working as in bug or my key
<persia> gnomefreak: pastebin the last changelog entry?
<gnomefreak> persia: that is used to sign .dsc
<gnomefreak> ok
<gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524042  persia
<gnomefreak> i dont see why changelog would help
<persia> Because 99% of the problems that people use -k to work around are related to issues with the changelog.
<persia> In your case, I don't see it.
<gnomefreak> i was thinking that pinentry is borked
<persia> Yes, it is.
<persia> As I said before, your GPG agent isn't working.
<gnomefreak> yeah i tried removing it and purge it
<persia> That might be the issue.  remove/purge doesn't clean up user-specific configuration.  Hunt for dotfiles
<gnomefreak> persia: i did and it was in ~/.gunpg and i removed it
<persia> And gpg is still looking for an agent?
<gnomefreak> doesnt help at all
<gnomefreak> yep
<persia> Curiouser and curiouser.  Can you use gpg to sign files directly, rather than using the packaging tools?
<gnomefreak> not real sure if it is but im assuming i is since i get that error
<gnomefreak> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<gnomefreak> oops
<persia> Yep.  That's the core issue.  I suspect either a dotfile, or a global gpg config thing.
<gnomefreak> error_mozilla-devscripts error_mozilla-devscripts .asc error_mozilla-devscripts .sig
<gnomefreak> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524056 after error it asked for passsword and by the looks of it it signed it http://pastebin.mozilla.org/524056
<gnomefreak> oops i gave you link 2 times
<gnomefreak> last thing i want to do is make another key
<persia> Really, the problem is not with the key, it's with your gpg configuration.
<persia> Try logging into a chroot, and signing there just to verify this.
<gnomefreak> persia:  it fails in clean chroot
<gnomefreak> clean == made yesterday
<persia> gnomefreak: OK.  How about a hardy chroot?  You may have found a bug.
<persia> (note that you're only testing gpg here, not the entire build process)
<gnomefreak> persia: works in hardy last tested on friday but im using a differrent key in hardy iirc
 * gnomefreak tests the build not gpg
<gnomefreak> well gpg indirectly
<gnomefreak> :~/.gnupg$ cat gpg-agent-info-Development | less
<gnomefreak> only thing in it is GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/gpg-uCtLP5/S.gpg-agent:5947:1
<persia> Try unsetting that, as I suspect it's not a valid pipe
<gnomefreak> i removed it and still got error
<gnomefreak> i guess its making that file on build
<persia> Right.  Try a new user.
<persia> (and yes, you can copy your keys to the new user's .gnupg safely, just remember to delete them afterwards
<gnomefreak> new user would be same since they share the key
<persia> Yes, but that lets you discover whether the problematic configuration is for your user or system wide.
<persia> Again, the key doesn't have the problem, it's the GPG environment.
<gnomefreak> i guess i have to logout and back in with new user
<persia> Nah.  Just use `sudo -u $(newusername)
<persia> Err.  `sudo -s -u $(newusername)`
<gnomefreak> i gave user admin but i cant sem to ls saying number1@Development:~/.gnupg$ ls
<gnomefreak> ls: cannot open directory .: Permission denied
<persia> Ah, keys ar secret.  You need to copy the keys over as root.
<gnomefreak> but i am useing same ~/.gnupg with both users arent i?
<gnomefreak> i cant use any command at all i tried cd and gives permissions error
<gnomefreak> even with sudo it fails to move keys
<gnomefreak> do i need *agent or can i just use seahorse as an alterative
<gnomefreak> seahorse or something else
<persia> gnomefreak: You can use an alternate agent, or no agent.  Currently, it seems your profile is configured to use an agent, but that agent isn't working.
<gnomefreak> persia: where is the profile for *-agent?
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm not sure.  That's why I suggested trying with a different user.  It's either going to be in your user directory or in /etc somwhere
<persia> Like I said before, I don't use an agent.
<gnomefreak> i think i will try without one
<gnomefreak> that failed after removing gnupg-agent
<gnomefreak> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<gnomefreak> looks like no fir or file for it in /etc
<Iulian> DktrKranz: ping
<wgrant> soren: I see that you have quite a fan in the Ubuland blog comments.
<DktrKranz> Iulian, pong
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Hey! Salasaga has been uploaded to Sid. Would you like to have a look at bug 260813?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260813 in ubuntu "Please sync salasaga 0.8.0~alpha3-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260813
<DktrKranz> sure
<DktrKranz> I'll have a look at it after lunch. Is it on REVU too (so I can archive it)?
<Iulian> DktrKranz: It's already archived, by you :)
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Enjoy your lunch.
<soren> wgrant: Yeah, he luuuuves me. :/
<wgrant> soren: I hope you prevail.
<Iulian> DktrKranz: Thank you.
<DktrKranz> you're welcome ;)
<ssaboum> hi everyone
<ssaboum> sorry to bother you but i would like to know if there's any issue with Revu because i'm new to it and tried to upload a package
<ssaboum> but i can't see anything
<ssaboum> :'( ??
<ssaboum_> hi, anyone here ?
<ssaboum_> i would use some help, if there was any ??
<ssaboum_> lol
<laga> ssaboum_: have you logged in to revu already?
<ssaboum_> thanks for awnsering
<ssaboum_> lol
<ssaboum_> yes i'm logged in
<ssaboum_> i have my launchpad account
<ssaboum_> and i did dput revu for my package source
<laga> did you add your gpg key to launchpad?
<ssaboum_> yes
<ssaboum_> i'm perfectly logged in
<laga> is your package signed?
<ssaboum_> the problem is that even if dput tell me that the package is uploaded
<ssaboum_> i can't see anything
<ssaboum_> yes it is
<ssaboum_> wait a second i think i get it, i'll try and get back to you
<ssaboum_> but that may be a problem with the keys
<ssaboum_> thank you anyway for answering me
<ssaboum_> that was really nice
<ssaboum_> how can i join tu revu uploader launchpad team ?
<ssaboum_> tu = the
<ssaboum_> ok i checked my gpg keys are ok
<ssaboum_> and the package has been uploaded
<ssaboum_> but i can't see it
<laga> hum
<laga> you'll have to wait for one of the revu guys to come around
<laga> eg Ncommander
<ssaboum_> ok then
<ssaboum_> it's weird isn't it
<ssaboum_> thank you anyway lage
<ssaboum_> thank you anyway laga
<ssaboum_> anyone from the REVU team ?
<coppro> wow, where did my funky K menu go?
<coppro> ah, there we go
<persia> ssaboum_: Sorry for the delay.  Have you tried logging into REVU?
<ssaboum_> i'm logged in thank you
<ssaboum_> (hi btw :-) )
<persia> ssaboum_: OK.  Which package did you upload?
<ssaboum_> i uploaded a package names japanesevocabulary
<ssaboum_> precisely i did
<ssaboum_> dput revu japanesevocabulary_0.6-1_source.changes
<ssaboum_> after packaging it (since this is my first i would not say "perfectly" ) lol
<ssaboum_> and now dput tell me that it's on and that there's no update to do
<persia> Interestingly, I can see the .changes file in the rejected folder, but can't see the rest of the package.
<persia> Try deleting the source.upload file, and sending it again.
<ssaboum_> why is it rejected ?
<ssaboum_> (ok )
<ssaboum_> it's doing it
<ssaboum_> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1.dsc: done.
<ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6.orig.tar.gz: done.
<ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1.diff.gz: done.
<ssaboum_>   japanesevocabulary_0.6-1_source.changes: done.
<ssaboum_> Successfully uploaded packages.
<persia> I don't actually know how to check the logs as to why it was rejected, but with the entire pacakge, we've a better chance of it being accepted.
<persia> OK.  I can see it now.
<ssaboum_> :-)
<ssaboum_> brb afk
<persia> What is your launchpad ID?
<ssaboum_> ok back
<ssaboum_> my launchpad id is ssaboum
<ssaboum_> thx i can see it now
<ssaboum_> but there's two
<ssaboum_> must because i forced it once
<ssaboum_> (+ be )
<persia> Two uploads?
<ssaboum_> yeah i see two packages now in revu
<ssaboum_> but i think it's because i tried once
<ssaboum_> dput -f
<persia> Oh, right.  Yeah, that would be it.
<ssaboum_> (because i didn't see the package )
<ssaboum_> i can delete one ?
<persia> It takes a while between the upload and publication: I think the cron job only runs every 10 minutes.
<persia> I'll remove the obsolete .changes from rejected.
<ssaboum_> honestly it's been since yesterday that i tried
<ssaboum_> it must have been about 8 hours
<ssaboum_> that i uploaded the first one
<ssaboum_> (even if it's indicated 17 h 20 lol)
<ssaboum_> thank you very much
<emgent> evening
<ssaboum_> evening :-)
<ssaboum_> btw persia how can i get into the launchpad revu uploaders group
<persia> ssaboum_: You just join.  That said, I don't think that group is required anymore.
<persia> NCommander: ?
<NCommander> REVU uploaders isn't needed anymore
<ssaboum_> hello NCommander
<persia> NCommander: But it's cool, and gives a badge.
<ssaboum_> laga told me to wait for you
 * NCommander removes the badge
<ssaboum_> as we were trying to understand why my upload didn't work
<ssaboum_> :( so i can't get a badge lol
 * NCommander steals Persia's badge
<ssaboum_> :-)
<ssaboum_> well thank you both for helping me
<ssaboum_> how can i become a MOTU
<ssaboum_> ?
<Laney> ssaboum_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<Laney> Also the links in the topic
<ssaboum_> ok thx
<Laney> Basically: Do a lot of stuff, get good, get to know people, apply
<Laney> easy eh
<ssaboum_> :-)
<ssaboum_> quite easy
<ssaboum_> lol
<stefanlsd> i think the hard part is the get good part...
<mok0> ï»¿ What does "All rights reserved" mean? Is it part of the copyright, or of the license?
<Iulian> No, the hard part is to actually get involved.
<stefanlsd> mm. I guess. If you want to get involved, that part is easy.  Reading and learning takes a bunch of time
<ssaboum_> it depends on whether you're good at the social skills "thing"
<ssaboum_> or particularly bad lol
<stefanlsd> I think also though, don't be afraid to make mistakes and learn.
<Iulian> stefanlsd: Reading and learning = getting involved.
<ssaboum_> finding time for it
<Iulian> mok0: I just found a useful page. You might want to have a look at http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/law-copyright-all-rights-reserved.html
<persia> mok0: The phrase "All rights reserved" has no legal meaning except in Nicaragua and Honduras, where it is a required statement in order to preserve expected copyright limitations.
<persia> (or at least that's what I heard)
<ssaboum_> may i ask something about packaging
<askand> Hi, where was the decision abot choosing F-spot and EOG over gThumb taken? IRC or some mailinlist?
<ssaboum_> when you've got a program that needs in the same directory a lot of files,
<ssaboum_> you can't put it directly into /usr/bin or /usr/games (don't matter)
<ssaboum_> how can you do ?
<persia> If those files aren't separate executables, they are typically put in /usr/share/$package, /usr/lib/$package, or /usr/games/$package depending on the type of file and type of package.
<ssaboum_> i agree
<ssaboum_> but the best practice is to put one executable into /usr/bin
<ssaboum_> isn't it ?
<mok0> persia: thanks. Wow
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.  Interesting reading.
<nxvl> good morning
<persia> ssaboum_: Best practice is to put anything the user is expected to execute (including through a menu) in /usr/bin
<jelmer> how long does it usually take for sync requests for universe to be processed?
<persia> jelmer: It usually happens within a couple days once they reach the archive administration queue.  It can take longer in the universe sponsors queue, but there's no good way to estimate that timeframe.
<jelmer> ah, ok - thanks
<ssaboum_> persia
<ssaboum_> i did some change on the package and reuploaded it,
<ssaboum_> but it's not taken into account once again ...
<persia> ssaboum_: Wait 20 minutes.
<ssaboum_> ok thanks
<frith> i am trying to backport a package to hardy
<frith> i want to change a dependency,  i found debian/control and the .dsc file
<persia> frith: Generally that is done in debian/control, although for autogenerated dependencies, one typically needn't make special adjustments.
<frith> persia, i am trying to backport openldap 2.4.11 to hardy
<frith> however there is a depend on libtool being updated
<frith> i thought i would try and use the version in hardy
<persia> frith: Hmm.  That might be messy, but you could try.  Does it even compile under Hardy?
<frith> i am sure it will, its only a point revision
<frith> i ported 2.4.10
<frith> but i dont' seem to be able to modify the depends to the version included in hardy
<frith> or does apt-get build-dep openldap get its depends from somewhere else?
<persia> Yeah, I don't expect the problem to be related to the openldap code, but to libtool.
<persia> apt-get build-dep gets it from the data stored in the apt-cache, not from the locale package file.
<frith> ah
<frith> i guess i could build the depends myself
<persia> frith: Hrm?  How do you mean?
<persia> If you submit a package to pbuilder or sbuild, it uses the build-dependencies declared in the package.  IF you're building locally, just install what you need.
<frith> yeah i was trying to be lazy and get apt-get build-dep to work, grep'ing out the build dep line
<coppro> what's the Intrepid release date again?
<persia> coppro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<coppro> ty
<ssaboum_> i've got a question guys , henrik told me on revu : "debian/changelog: distro and version is wrong. please change to (0.6-0ubuntu1) intrepid or (0.6-1ubuntu1) intrepid if the package is also in debian" considering that my orig is ***_0.6.0.orig.tar.gz
<ssaboum_> will revu understand if i change the name onto japanesevocabulary_0.6-0ubuntu1.orig that it's still the same package ....
<frith> i wish the base would stay the same and there would be app updates
<ScottK-laptop> frith: That's where backports comes in.
<frith> ScottK, that is what i am doing
<frith> and if by magic openldap 2.4.11 appears
<Laney> This is a guide to effective compliance with the GNU General Public License (GPL) and related licenses. In accordance with the Software Freedom Law Centerâs (SFLCâs) philosophy of assisting the community with GPL compliance cooperatively, this guide focuses on avoiding compliance actions and minimizing the negative impact when enforcement actions occur. It introduces and explains basic legal concepts related to the GPL and its enforcement ...
<Laney> ... by copyright holders. It also outlines business practices and methods that lead to better GPL compliance. Finally, it recommends proper post-violation responses to the concerns of copyright holders.
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Personal backports or are you askingfor official backports?
<Laney> 2 Background
<Laney> Erm.
<Laney> Yeah, I didn't mean to do that. Sorry
<Laney> (middle click)
<ssaboum_> nevermind my questions btw
<stefanlsd> i've had worse middle click mistakes :P
<frith> ok ok time to backport libtool
<calimer> I have a software project I would really like to get into edubuntu and ubuntu
<calimer> it is at http://Kids.PlatinumArts.Net
<Burgundavia> calimer: are you familiar with debian packaging?
<firstman> calimer send a bug to launchpad
<calimer> nope
<calimer> I was just directed here when I asked
<calimer> have been directed a lot of places
<Burgundavia> ok
<calimer> I am working on a "debian free" version as well
<Burgundavia> is your program free? (in the speech sense)
<calimer> right now the version on there isnt' because it has some non commercial content
<calimer> but I have a version of all CC stuff that can be used commercially
<calimer> it is basically a kid friendly version of cube 2 / sauerbraten
<Burgundavia> right, ok
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44Ww2bg2_E
<calimer> I have already used at a bunch of schools and such with a lot of success
<calimer> and I would really like to help more kids and teachers have access to it
<calimer> I'm a teacher and a substitute teacher as my main job so that helps a bit
<Burgundavia> probably one of the fastest ways to get it into Ubuntu would be find somebody in the Debian world to help you package it, that way both Debian and ubuntu get it
<calimer> okay I did have a lady who said she would help with that but then she stopped responding to my messages
<calimer> do you know anyone I could contact?
<calimer> it feels a lot of times like I'm kind of going in circles
<Burgundavia> the debian games team would be a good bet
<Burgundavia> the challenge is that you really need to somebody to help maintain it
<calimer> looks like these guys
<calimer> http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development
<firstman> calimer if you want this package in debian you should send a RFP (request for packaging) bug to debian
<calimer> okay, let me try to find that spot
<calimer> think I got it
<calimer> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
<calimer> I'll e-mail that lady again for the heck of it
<calimer> she said she'd help maintain it
<Burgundavia> calimer: if you don't get help there, come back here and somebody can show you how to package
<calimer> okay awesome, and thanks for your time and help
<calimer> I've just seen how happy the little dudes and dudettes are using it, so it is well worth whatever to me
<calimer> saving all this to a txt file
<firstman> but if you haven't a free version, it will no included on Debian
<calimer> debian free I think you more specifically mean, correct?
<calimer> where everything can be used commercially
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> if it can be redistributed but not used commercially it goes in non-free
<calimer> I think the best would be both
<calimer> the non commercial one in the non free and the commercial one in the free
<calimer> that way people who want the extra content and stuff can grab the non commercial one
<Burgundavia> calimer: sure, you could two data packages
<calimer> they are quite different
<Burgundavia> just means you have to release three tarballs, one with the app, and one for each of the datasets
<calimer> a lot easier to get more content if you agree to non commercial licenses
<calimer> ah I think I understand
<calimer> hmm that could be a problem though
<calimer> since they both load things differently
<calimer> well maybe not, hmm
<calimer> I guess it depends how it is packaged
<Burgundavia> well, the program would depend upon the free data set and have the non-free data set as a suggests
<Burgundavia> afaik, IANADD
<calimer> what is ianadd?
<calimer> i am not a debian developer?
<Burgundavia> yes
<calimer> woo I solved the riddle, sweet
<calimer> well we'll see what happens
<calimer> the main thing is to get it into edubuntu me thinks
<frith> persia, don't know if you are interested, but i backported libtool
<ssaboum_> :-)
<ssaboum_> good job
<frith> oh wow this backport of ldap is passing all the test :)
<frith> happiness
<RainCT> Heya
<Laney> lo RainCT
<jpds> RainCT: Hello.
<Laney> Grr. Some files in a library I'm packaging don't have copyright headers. Is this a problem, and can I do anything about it besides talking to upstream?
<devfil_> A MOTU can take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/260625 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260625 in ubuntu "Please sync msn-pecan 0.0.14-3 from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New]
<Laney> devfil_: Why can't it wait for uus?
<devfil_> Laney: 1: new package so it needs to be on NEW queue in order to get accepted, 2: after the acceptation I will open a bug to remove another package, etc...
<ScottK-laptop> Laney: Does the package include a complete verbatim copy of the license in the tarball?
 * directhex badgers people hard to sponsor #260935
<directhex> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger launchpad launchpad!
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: ping :P
<Laney> ScottK-laptop: Yes, it has the LGPL 2.1 in there. But a couple of the examples are GPL2 too and there isn't a copy of that...
<directhex> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger... launchpad launchpad!
<vorian> whois directhex
<vorian> fail
<NCommander> directhex, sponsor what?
<sebner> vorian: a badger freak
<vorian> nod :)
<ScottK-laptop> Laney: That'll be a problem then.  You can repack the tarball to include the GPL is upstream won't do it.
<directhex> NCommander, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/260935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260935 in ubuntu "Please sync smartirc4net 0.4.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main). " [Undecided,New]
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: Yes?
<sebner> directhex vorian bad idea
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Someone is whining about rpath issues in Courier.  Would you mind taking a look?
<NCommander> *swears*
<NCommander> I fixed the rpath issues
<NCommander> Unless they occur on i386 and not amd64
<sebner> directhex: bug #260147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260147 in ubuntu "Please sync smartirc4net 0.4.5.1-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260147
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, link?
<Laney> ScottK-laptop: Right then (I guess I can't put it in the .diff.gz?). The missing headers aren't a problem?
 * ScottK-laptop looks for the bug.
<sebner> ScottK: MIR \o/
 * NCommander detangles his headphones
<ScottK-laptop> Laney: Not idea, but not a killer.
<ScottK-laptop> idea/ideal
<directhex> sebner, now, why did searching LP now come up with that?
<directhex> sebner, i searched lots, i did!
<directhex> not
<directhex> s/now/not/
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Bug 260899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260899 in courier "some courier executables can't load libraries in /usr/lib/courier-authlib " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260899
<sebner> directhex: ^^, dunno. np
<NCommander> oh ew
<NCommander> I dont' strip the rpath
<NCommander> At least I don't think I do
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, rpath's are really only acceptable if its for private modules for a program, but courier-authlib looks like a PAM module
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I agree I don't like the proposed solution.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I was hoping you'd come up with the right one.
<NCommander> I'm really not familar with Debian's policy w.r.t to ld.so.conf
<NCommander> Moving the libraries into /usr/lib would work however
<NCommander> I can't find anything on ld.so.conf on Debian although GOogle giving me issues
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: Let me know if you need help.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: I'm betting sistpoty would know if he were here.
<sebner> ScottK: well I surely don't have the time to start today but tomorrow. Something like a starting point, tips and tricks ,..
<calimer> wooo cool it looks like the lady is going to help maintain sandbox
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClamavSpamassassinInMain has what needs doing.
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess describes the process.
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: Ping me to review before subscribing ubuntu-mir to the bug.
<NCommander> ScottK, On my system ld.conf.so redirects to /etc/ld.conf.so.d/*, which only has files that list three folders
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: of course. And yes, the links *are* exactly what I need :) Already edit the wiki to assign things to me?
<NCommander> Its ugly that courier's authlib is in courier-authlib(-dev), and not libcourier
<ScottK-laptop> sebner: Yes.  But just do one at a time when you are ready to work on it.
<directhex> launchpad really hates me today :/
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Yes.
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: It's not personal.  It's generally user hostile.
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: kk :) will ping you tomorrow when I have questions or have finished one
<ScottK-laptop> Great.
<NCommander> I think the proper fix is moving things to /usr/lib, but that doesnt' seem right either
<NCommander> ScottK-laptop, I assigned myself to the bug and confirmed it
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Thanks.
<frith> yay! and a nice backport of openldap
 * NCommander wishes he was a backport developer
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: What does that mean?
<NCommander> It means I wishes I could do backporting ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> Easy enough after you get MOTU.  We can always use more people to review stuff.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: You could get started doing backports testing now.
<NCommander> I'm currently running Intrepid (to head xfce-4.6 beta packaging)
<NCommander> I need to install hardy into a lvm chroot once I get around to reparitioning the HDD
<ScottK-laptop> Or Dapper/Feisty/Gutsy too for that matter.
<NCommander> Dapper should have died when we released the last LTS
 * NCommander is starting to think five years may be too long
<ScottK-laptop> Red Hat does 7.
 * NCommander sticks his foot in his mouth
<NCommander> well, that's for servers
<ScottK-laptop> So is the 5.
<ScottK-laptop> LTS is 3 years for Desktops.
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> wait, Dapper was only two years ago?
<NCommander> Damn
<directhex> good, innit
<directhex> LTS should only "support" main/restricted in LTS terms. no community person wants to backport obscure fixes on 4-year-old apps
<NCommander> seconded
<ScottK-laptop> It's good for backports too.
<ScottK-laptop> You can still install the current upstream release of Postfix from dapper-backports.
<ScottK-laptop> Unless you're on amd64.
<directhex> the funny thing about LTS support though is how much it differs from support on SLES/RHEL
<ScottK-laptop> How do they work?
<directhex> they install upstream updates
<directhex> SLES 10 versus 10SP1 versus 10SP2 have MAJOR updates
<directhex> and the kernel especially. dapper's kernel was useless for new hardware within a couple of months of rease
<directhex> RHEL3's up to what, the 7th major rollup update, incl bleeding edge drivers in the kernel?
<ScottK-laptop> Right, which is why they did 6.06.2
<ScottK-laptop> I think they've learned their lesson and will do every 6 month updates for new hardware support.
<NCommander> what was 6.06.2?
<ScottK-laptop> Update to Dapper for new hardware done about the time Gutsy released, IIRC.
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, for those who were bitten already, they won't be eager to try it out again
<ScottK-laptop> Sure.
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, i had about a week to make an emergency change in core infrastructure design away from dapper due to 6.06's kernel
<ScottK-laptop> Lovely.
<rawler> is it possible to get an email from revu when I get comments on an upload of mine?
<ScottK-laptop> There's a mail list to get them all.
<rawler> oh, high volume?
<ScottK-laptop> For some values of high, no.
<rawler> heh.. uhm, thanks, I guess.. ;)
<directhex> i should cook dinner
<NCommander> rawler, its on the todo list for REVU
<mgdm> Laney: ok then :)
<directhex> then prepare a monodoc 1.9-2ubuntu1 merge
<NCommander> (I though RainCT rolled that code)
<directhex> then bug main sponsors for it. yay, i love bugging main sponsors
<Laney> mgdm: \o/
<NCommander> my laptop about to die
<rawler> oki.. just found the RSS-feed.. works almost as well for me.. :)
<Laney> rawler: http://exo.org.uk/code/rss2mail/
<Laney> rawler: Or rss2email in the repos
<rawler> yeah, well.. I already subscribe to rss quite frequently.. the only difference is I won't be notified of comments during work-hours, which may be a good thing after all.. ;)
<mgdm> anyone else tried to package Pidgin 2.5.0? I'm trying it for comedy value, but it fails applying the patches
<devfil_> mgdm: it is already in intrepid repository
<mgdm> devfil_: Can that be rebuilt for Hardy...?
 * mgdm <-- utter newbie
<foxbuntu> mgdm, I am running it right nwo
<foxbuntu> now*
<devfil_> mgdm: if all build-deps are also in hardy yes
<mgdm> devfil_ / foxbuntu: ta, I'll try rebuilding it
<foxbuntu> mgdm, I am running Intrepid
<Laney> mgdm: Use pbuilder/sbuild/prevu to build the Intrepid package for Hardy
<Laney> If you check the upgrade bug the package upgrade was fairly complex
<mgdm> Laney: ta
<Laney> Bug #259453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259453 in pidgin "Please upgrade to pidgin 2.5.0" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259453
<mgdm> "Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies" <-- how do I find out what went wrong? And is there a HOWTO I should read instead of bugging you guys? :)
<mgdm> oh, hang on, it does tell me, just about 3 screenfuls back.
<Arc> can anyone advise on what's needed to get the motu games group restarted?
<ssaboum_> sorry i'm just a noob in the community
<ssaboum_> but you're not alone :-)
<ssaboum_> hi lol
<Arc> in wanting to get it going again?
<ssaboum_> yeah and in the chatroom lol
<Arc> ah ok
<Arc> well apparently awhile ago the motu team defuncted to debian, leaving Ubuntu with an "independence hole" in people to manage packages that differ from Sid
<Arc> or even just keeping games-related packages better updated
<nxvl> Arc: they are working together
<nxvl> Arc: it's pointless to work on making the delta bigger when you can work together
<Arc> so in the current situation it's impossible to get an Ubuntu variant of a debian games package included?
<nxvl> on, you actually can, but i don't see the point
<mok0> Argh, I found an error in a package I uploaded. Can I supersede it by uploading again?
<nxvl> mok0: nop, you need to make a new revision
<nxvl> been there
<Arc> nxvl: well the most immediate issue we're looking at for our next release is it looks like debian is declaring the AGPLv3 non-free
<mok0> nxvl: I uploaded -0ubuntu3, should've been -0ubuntu1.2
<Arc> and last I checked, Ubuntu isn't held to this sort of nonsense
<nxvl> Arc: AGPL?
<nxvl> mok0: heh, you'r done
<Arc> nxvl: it's a FSF license, GPLv3 compatible, which requires the distribution of modified sources to remote users over a network
<mok0> nxvl: I need someone to zap it then
<nxvl> mok0: ask slangasek, but i don't think it's possible to revert that
<Arc> it was designed for webapps, where software is rarely "distributed"
<mok0> slangasek: ping
<nxvl> Arc: link?
<cody-somerville> mok0, what release and pocket did you upload to?
<mok0> cody-somerville: hardy-proposed
<cody-somerville> Okay, so it is in the queue anyhow
<Arc> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html
<mok0> cody-somerville: it's in the "unapproved" queue
<Arc> the only variant between the GPLv3 and AGPLv3 is section 13
<nxvl> mok0: oh, it can (will) be rejected from there, so don't worry
<mok0> nxvl: right.
 * mok0 kicks self
<nxvl> Arc: and why is it considered non-Free?
<Arc> nxvl: because it's different from the GPL
<nxvl> that's not a reason
<nxvl> even for DD's
<Arc> the short of it is I feel Ubuntu shouldn't be at the mercy of the various Debian practices
<Arc> there should be a way to route around them
<nxvl> there is a lot of ways
<nxvl> but we don't want to take them
<nxvl> it's pointless
<Arc> so what is the point of Ubuntu as a project if it's not possible to have a variant between the package repositories?
<cody-somerville> It is possible :-]
<RainCT> nxvl: I guess that's because the AGPL *forces* you to distribute any change you do
<Arc> I know that's not true, because I've seen -ubuntu variants
<Arc> RainCT: only modified versions to remote users of your modified version
<nxvl> RainCT: gpl too
<Arc> the question comes down to who the freedoms of free software should belong to, the users or the owner of the machine the software is run on
<RainCT> nxvl: no, the GPL doesn't, unless you distribute the binary version
<Arc> the AGPLv3 was created because this provision was controversial during the GPLv3 community feedback stage and was split into a second, explicitally GPLv3 compatible license
<Arc> GPLv3 section 13 provides the ability to link GPLv3 code into an AGPLv3 project (but not vice versa)
<Arc> I've read about Canonical looking to use the AGPLv3 for launchpad
<ajmitch> interesting
<RainCT> nxvl: and like I see it, that what users get is "the result produced by the application" (in the case of the HTML and whatever generated by a server-side application), not the application itself
<Arc> in any case, I maintain a AGPLv3 licensed game engine project, and all games using our engine must be licensed under the AGPLv3 as well, so specifically in the area around our engine we have a problem with having to rely on Debian's packaging
<Arc> also I'd like to package a separate -ubuntu version that includes more accessible documentation and example scripts
<nxvl> RainCT: i actually doesn't care a lot about licenses :D
<RainCT> (note: I have no opinion on wheter Ubuntu should accept AGPL'd stuff or not -at least not yet :)-)
<nxvl> just show me the code
<RainCT> Arc: about your Launchpad comment, that makes sense, as this way there can't be no Launchpad derivative better than theirs (at least not if they don't want this to happen, as they can just take the code)
<Arc> RainCT: absolutely
<Arc> the purpose of our engine is to promote copyleft games, and even in lack of some of the planned features (a firefox plugin for remote gaming) server code is still an issue
<Arc> so the AGPLv3 was an obvious choice.
<Arc> in any case, I know how to package for Ubuntu, I'm one of the core members involved with our LoCo, so the only question I have is what process we'll have to go through to get our next release packaged for ubuntu
<Arc> or rather, included for ubuntu
<RainCT> Arc: you could try raising it on ubuntu-devel-discuss@
<Arc> to ask what the process is?
<RainCT> Arc: to ask if Ubuntu should accept AGPL'd stuff
<RainCT> or wasn't that your concern?
<Arc> I would think that would be a technical council issue
<RainCT> wb nxvl
<Arc> no my question is around how to get an Ubuntu-specific package included
<Arc> I know almost nothing about how MOTU works, our loco team advisor just sent me here to ask
<RainCT> Arc: probably, but I suppose that the technical boards' members are subscribed there, and this way all developers have a chance to comment
<RainCT> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<RainCT> Arc: about how to get it included, see that ^
<RainCT> Arc: or the quick link, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
<RainCT> Arc: btw, Feature Freeze is about to start
<Arc> feature freese for 8.10?
<nxvl> yep
<Arc> not an issue
<nxvl> it's taking place on 28
<nxvl> 4 days from now on
<Arc> we're going to be releasing beta3 sometime this fall, beta4 this winter
<nxvl> that would be for intrepid+1 then
<Arc> yea
<Arc> we can always put a .deb on our download page for beta testers
<Arc> what I'm investigating is the "how", I've been google searching and asking our loco advisor for how to get a package into Ubuntu, what the process is, who we have to go through
<Arc> since there's apparently no longer a MOTU games group, that's unclear to me.  I'd think normally we'd go to them
<cody-somerville> You just get any old MOTU to upload your changes
<RainCT> cody-somerville: iiuc it's a new package
<emgent> hello people
<RainCT> Arc: so as I already said you would upload it to revu.ubuntuwire.com and ask for feedback
<Arc> and will inevitably be many new packages
<nxvl> Arc: it actually still is an ubuntu games team, they just work with debian to get all the fix posible into debian and then sync into ubuntu
<cody-somerville> Arc, If it is a new package, you upload it yourself to revu.ubuntuwire.com and get two MOTUs to give their approval
<RainCT> Arc: then once two MOTU's are happy with it (and if nobody has complained) it will be uploaded
<Arc> in more detail, the engine is a set of Python extensions, the games are all Python based
<nxvl> Arc: but the ubuntu specific issues are fixed in ubuntu
<Arc> ok launchpad shows only 2 members of motu games, and I've seen references that say the team is defuct since they all moved to debian
<cody-somerville> Arc, If you're really interested, wait and speak with bddebian
<bddebian> Yeah we have kind of all merged on the Debian games team
<Arc> bddebian: ok so how does an Ubuntu-specific games package get handled?
<bddebian> What makes it Ubuntu specific?
<Arc> that it differs from whatever Debian may end up packaging
<Arc> quite frankly, I'd rather Debian not package us at all
<bddebian> Oh, then don't worry about it
<cody-somerville> Arc, make love, not war!
<Arc> inclusion of documentation, examples, making these things available
<bddebian> heh
<Arc> cody-somerville: "I didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world started turning.."
<nxvl> btw
<Arc> we're not going to work with a group that classifies us in the same category as proprietary software
<cody-somerville> mmmkay now.
<nxvl> even if it's AGPL it can make it to debian non-free repository
 * cody-somerville goes to buy some ruffled original chips.
<Arc> nxvl: and to be frank, I'd rather not be packaged for Debian than be advertised as non-free
<nxvl> Arc: well, in ubuntu you will have it in multiverse maybe
<Arc> what is multiverse?
<cody-somerville> non-free
 * cody-somerville coughs.
<nxvl> ubuntu's non-free repo
<Arc> even though Ubuntu isn't held to the DFSG nonsense
<Arc> the AGPLv3 is very much a free software license
<cody-somerville> nxvl, Why would it be in multiverse?
<nxvl> cody-somerville: i've make a little research on the web about the AGPL
<nxvl> and it seems not to free
<Arc> nxvl: then you disagree with both the FSF and OSI
<nxvl> it seems that it doesn't allow comercial use of the software
<cody-somerville> Has the archive admins rejected an AGPL package yet?
<Arc> nxvl: please read the license text itself
<cody-somerville> Has the tech board made a decision?
<Arc> it very much does allow commercial use.
<nxvl> cody-somerville: not that i know
<nxvl> i can't find debian's or ubuntu decision about it
<nxvl> i've saw that google banned it from google code
<cody-somerville> nxvl, well, lets not proclaim things to be a certain why until we know so?
<nxvl> cody-somerville: that's what i said it might, not say it will
<Arc> nxvl: that is because Google is *furious* that they're not being allowed to take, modify, and provide via webapp many GNU apps anymore
<Arc> Google is a big reason why the AGPLv3 has become popular
<cody-somerville> Arc, I suggest you bring this up on the mailing list
<cody-somerville> There is no point discussing it further here.
<Arc> cody-somerville: I plan on it.
<Arc> but the license issue isn't the question I came here for
 * cody-somerville nods nods.
<cody-somerville> Arc, Can you state your question again and I'll see if I can answer it for you before I really do have to go get some munchies?
<nxvl> yeah i don't know a lot of licenses and don't care much about it
<ScottK-laptop> Arc: I don't think there's a formal decision in Debian and not much discussion in Ubuntu.
<Arc> ok.  I'm going to be releasing a .deb packages for Ubuntu on our download page for our beta3 release, the question is how does it get from there to included in Ubuntu
<ScottK-laptop> Arc: Personally I think it's clearly not a DFSG free license.
<ScottK-laptop> It can go in multiverse though.
<nxvl> and althought in ubuntu we are more open with license, we respect DFSG
<cody-somerville> Arc, You can file a needs-packaging bug on launchpad
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: WHich part of the DFSG does it violate?
<Arc> cody-somerville: we don't need packaging help
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: The one exception we make to DFSG is that we allow GFDL invariant docs in the main repo.
<cody-somerville> Arc, or if you want to try and get it into the archive yourself, follow the directions on those links nxvl gave you
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Use restriction.
<Arc> the AGPLv3 does not restrict use.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: yup
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK-laptop> Arc: It restricts use of modified code.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: True.
<Arc> it absolutely does not restrict the use of modified code
<wgrant> It does.
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<ScottK-laptop> Arc: It does.  You can't use it unless you distribute it.
<Arc> any more than the GPL restricts distribution
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-17
<stochastic> Can someone take a look at this   http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/a2jmidid
<dholbach> good morning
<stochastic> hello, just curious if anyone can help me troubleshoot this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/254295/
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> heya iulian
<slytherin> superm1: ping, any idea how can I debug bug #414509 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414509 in nautilus-sendto "[karmic] Bluetooth plugin not initialised" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414509
<superm1> slytherin, sorry i'm not familiar with the nautilus-sendto code
<slytherin> ok
<superm1> slytherin, but i would suspect you probably want to make sure your phone is offering the right services
<superm1> some phones dont advertise all the obex services at all times
<slytherin> Yes it does. I have used it in the past.
<superm1> Ok. then that can be ruled out.  At least figure out the service identifier that your phone uses for obex then, and that's a starting point to look at the nautilus send to code
<superm1> (there are a few different ones for obex)
<superm1> you can use sdptool to query these
<slytherin> I am thinking that the problem is with nautilus-sendto. Why don't I see the 'bluetooth plugin initilised' message.
<superm1> you can use sdptool to query these
<superm1> oops.  i was meaning to say you should probably forward this upstream
<superm1> is that upstream pretty responsive about these kinds of bugs?
<slytherin> superm1: I will forward upstream if I know what the root cause is. Looking into nautilus-sendto code I found out that there are three conditions that may cause the plugin initialization to fail. Two of them are related to dbus. And I don't understand dbus very well.
<happyaron> hi, how about your discussion on tor yesterday?
<kkaji`>  http://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 NEW WEBSITE GAME,COME AND PLAY.
<stochastic> hello, just curious if anyone can help me troubleshoot this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/254295/  Is it a bug in libqt4-dev ?
<happyaron> freeflying: it's not very easy to get upstream happy on topic of tor as I was discussed with somebody in #tor
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I am running Hardy and i have collectd running collectd |    4.3.0-1 | hardy/universe | source, amd64, i386
<kaushal> there are bugs in this version, as reported at #collectd
<kaushal> so it has been fixed in 4.7 version of collectd
<kaushal> can i have 4.7 version of collectd ?
<Laney> Karmic has 4.6
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541887
<ubottu> Debian bug 541887 in collectd "update to 4.7?" [Wishlist,Open]
<kaushal> http://collectd.org/download.shtml
<kaushal> Laney: can i have a .deb of 4.6 of collectd ?
<kaushal> for Hardy ?
<andv> kaushal, you should request a backport in that case
<Laney> !backport
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<andv> kaushal, we cannot provide you random .debs files
<Laney> try that procedure
<andv> kaushal, or wait debian to package 4.7 and then ask the backport
<andv> which should be the best way
<andv> without having us to backport 4.6 then 4.7
<slytherin> kaushal: or you can file bugs you are facing on launchpad and the fixes for those bugs can be backported to hardy if possible.
<Laney> heh
<andv> lol
<kaushal> andv: so if use backport, i should be getting 4.6 :) ?
<andv> kaushal, you should get karmic's version which is 4.6
<kaushal> ah great
<slytherin> andv: What was that LOL about?
<andv> kaushal, but as I said, it's better to wait 4.7
<andv> from debian then ask the backport
<andv> slytherin, about your phrase
<andv> :)
<kaushal> andv: do you want me to ask #debian ?
<Laney> no, don't
<slicer> Is requestsync broken on karmic at the moment? It seems to just hang without any output at all.
<andv> kaushal, no, the maintainer said it will be ready in the next few days
<Laney> what are you trying to sync?
<andv> kaushal, so just follow up debian bug @541887
<Laney> Don't
<Laney> Just keep an eye on the Debian page and then tell us when it's out
<andv> Laney, that's what I said
<Laney> I thought you were telling him to post there
<andv> kaushal, when the upload is published follow the backport procedure and that's all
<andv> Laney, no no :)
<andv> Laney, the maintainer said the package is ready so
<Laney> quite
<slicer> Laney: If that was to me, I'm tryint to requestsync mumble from unstable :)
<Laney> slicer: /me tries
<Laney> ooh bug
<slicer> Laney: Ah, so it's not just me then.
<Laney> nah, that was a different bug
<Laney> requesting the sync works fine
<slicer> Laney: Oh. Then it IS me. *Sigh*
<Laney> (requestsync --lp mumble)
<geser> works for me too
 * Laney didn't file it
<Laney> geser: try requestsync --lp mumble karmic
<Laney> http://dpaste.com/81617/
<geser> I tried both with and without --lp, and both works
<slicer> Laney: That's exactly what I did, and it just sits there doing nothing. *scratches head*
<mok0> Excuse me for stupid question: what package contains /usr/bin/java ??
<slicer> Maybe it's the network connection here, I'll try again when I get home.
<Laney> mok0: isn't it managed by alternatives?
<mok0> Laney: ah, yes, my alternatives are broken
<mok0> Laney: thanks
<Laney> np
<mok0> My alternatives broke during a prior update, and it's been bugging me ever since
<kaushal> andv: Thanks a Lot
<kaushal> i did added deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-backports main universe multiverse restricted
<kaushal> and did apt-get update
<kaushal> but it still shows the old version ?
<kaushal> aptitude changelog show collectd
<andv> kaushal, you didnt get the point then :)
<slicer> Ok, requestsync works over a tunnel, so that was just a network problem.
<andv> kaushal, first of all you need debian to upload latest 4.7 release
<andv> kaushal, then YOU ask the backport
<Laney> (sync)
<kaushal> andv: i was referring to 4.6 :)
<kaushal> and not 4.7
<slicer> However, it's pulling the version from unstable (1.1.8-3), but the changelog is from experimental (which is version 1.2.0~something).
<geser> Laney: can you reproduce the requestsync crash? from the traceback it looks like it crashed in processing the rmadison output, so it shouldn't matter if you use --lp or not
<andv> kaushal, it's a non-sense asking the backport of 4.6
<Laney> geser: no, seems transient
<andv> when we gonna have 4.7 soon
<Laney> but we should handle it and give an error instead of the trace
<geser> as I assumed, rmadison (or the other side of it) has sometimes a small hickup
<kaushal> andv: ah got it
<slytherin> geser: Laney: I was having problem with requestsync 2 days ago. But I believe that problem was when trying to retrive information from Debian side.
<Laney> a lot of Debian was down over the weekend
<kaushal> so the steps are the same ?
<slytherin> Also Debian PTS was not accessible for two days.
<andv> kaushal, let's wait debian for 4.7 then we sync the package
<andv> then we ask the backport
<kaushal> andv: if there is a 4.7 version then i need to add deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-backports main universe multiverse restricted and apt-get update ?
<kaushal> and then run aptitude changelog show collectd ?
<andv> kaushal, when the 4.7 is backported you can install it
<andv> via apt-get
<andv> adding hardy-backports in your sources.list
<andv> as you already did I guess
<happyaron> hey, I've added a comment on that bug I reported related to Tor
<slicer> Auhm. Is there a way I can force requestsync to fetch the correct changelog? :)
<kaushal> andv: so the command aptitude changelog show collectd will show 4.7 version ?
<slytherin> slicer: what do you mean by 'correct changelog'?
<slicer> slytherin: Try 'requestsync --lp mumble karmic'. It creates a request sync for 1.1.8-3 (unstable), but pulls the changelog from 1.2.0~something (experimental).
<andv> kaushal, ye
<kaushal> andv: great
<kaushal> andv: so another 3-4 days ?
<andv> depends from Debian and from you
<andv> to ask the backport
<slicer> slytherin: I want 1.1.8-3, it fixes a crashbug in karmic. I really don't want 1.2.0~blah, sice it's in "experimental" for a good reason :)
<andv> kaushal, are you sure you understood all I said?
<slytherin> slicer: that may not be requestsync's fault, Still you can try 'requestsync -d unstable --lp mumble karmic'
<andv> kaushal, if not just tell me to explain again, np
<kaushal> andv: sure, I have a question
<slicer> slytherin: Same result. http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/mumble shows the correct changelog though.
<kaushal> so what i understand is that 4.6 too is not backported in Hardy ?
<kaushal> for example
<kaushal> I know its not needed
<andv> 4.6 is NOT backported to hardy
<andv> coz it's we gonna have 4.7 soon
<andv> so it's a non-sense/time-loss to backport 4.6
<kaushal> andv: Understood now
<slytherin> slicer: the url being used to retriev changelog  is http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mumble/current/changelog.txt I suggest that you wait for a day.
<andv> kaushal, perfect :)
<andv> kaushal, when 4.7 is in debian, ask to have it synced in ubuntu
<andv> kaushal, then follow backport procedure
<Laney> slytherin: We could use pkg_version instead of current
<andv> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
 * Laney tries to change it
<kaushal> andv: if i have questions i will definetly ask :)
<andv> kaushal, feel free to ping me if needed
<slicer> Laney: Send me a diff if you can get it to work? :)
<kaushal> andv: is there a way to know when and which application are backported to Hardy ?
<andv> kaushal, subscribe to backports ML
<kaushal> ah thats a Huge Traffic ML :/
<andv> not really huge traffic
<slytherin> backports ML is huge traffic?
<andv> nope
<andv> that's not what I call huge traffic
<andv> *-changes is
<andv> but not backports ML
<andv> kaushal, anyway you gonna ask the backport yourself
<andv> so you gonna be subscribed to the bug you wanna know about
<kaushal> got it
<andv> :)
<andv> kaushal, I guess you'll have tons of questions when you will have to ask the sync
<andv> and the backport
<andv> so please read the wiki pages related to those processes
<Laney> slicer: pushed, please test
<slicer> Laney: Ah. Pull from where? :)
<Laney> lp:ubuntu-dev-tools
<slicer> Laney: Excellent :) Request sent. Thank you :)
<Laney> no worries
<slytherin> Laney: Who maintains reverse-build-depends script?
<jpds> slytherin: The MOTU, but it looks like ryanakca last worked on it.
<siretart`> has anyone fun with debugging strange dependencies that confuse apt to hell? this is blocking my next ffmpeg upload and I'd really like to read some feedback on that...
<slytherin> jpds: hmm, in jaunty it assumes presence of jaunty source lists. I wonder why. If you simply look for '.*_dists_.*_.*Sources' instead of '.*_dists_jaunty_.*Sources'
<slytherin> s/if you/it should/
<slytherin> siretart`: do you have error log somewhere?
<jpds> slytherin: Seems to look for my $source_pattern = ".*_dists_karmic_.*Sources\$"; in karmic..
<slytherin> jpds: Yes. It is a problem then. I mean I can have the source lines for debian unstable, but they will not be used.
<jpds> slytherin: Might be worth filing a bug about.
<slytherin> I will.
<siretart`> slytherin: in a VM, add "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/siretart/ppa/ubuntu karmic main" and type 'sudo apt-get install vlc ubuntu-restricted-extras'
<slytherin> siretart`: ahh, I don't have access to any VM right now. :-(
<siretart`> slytherin: in my tests, apt fails to find a valid solution for this problem. however, there *is* a solution which can be found by manually selecting the right (the -extra- and -unstripped- variants of libavcodec and libavutil)
<siretart`> ok
<siretart`> I *believe* that if I change the shlibs file and rebuild all reverse dependencies, apt would find the solution easier
<ryanakca> slytherin: Sorry, please fix it up if you want, I haven't touched it in aeons
<siretart`> but I'd really like to have some comments if what I'm doing is at least a bit sane
<slytherin> ryanakca: I could fix it, but not very familiar with bzr. :-)
<ryanakca> slytherin: ah. You'll get the hang of it soon enough... pretty much change && bzr commit -m "Your message" && bzr push lp:~slytherin/project/branch_name and get someone to merge it into lp:project ;)
<slytherin> hmm will try when I go home.
<slytherin> james_w: thanks for java3d sync. :-)
<ryanakca> Anyways, good luck and thanks. I'm off to work :)
<c_korn> why is the diff.gz recreated at the beginning of the build process ? http://pastebin.com/d16d29c99
<azeem> c_korn: likely because you asked dpkg-buildpackage about doing so (maybe through some tool)
<slytherin> c_korn: where do you see it being recreated?
<c_korn> in line 33. it does not happen for all packages. for some packages after the debian/rules clean target immediately the debian/rules build target is called without recreating the diff.gz. and I was not able to determine the difference which makes the diff.gz recreate
<slytherin> c_korn: I don't think it is rebuilding .diff.gz.
<james_w> NBS is pretty big currently if anyone fancies some transitions
<Laney> mmm transitions
<c_korn> slytherin: it is rebuilding it. I can clearly see the tarball being untared again and the diff being receated
<Laney> huats: Do you plan on updating glom?
<slytherin> c_korn: is that 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' in correct place?
<slytherin> line 28
<c_korn> slytherin: hm, I don't know where it is coming from. maybe just some odd sbuild bug
<huats> Laney: hum you told me you were doing it :(
<huats> hum...
<huats> there is  a misunderstand there I think
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I thought you were
<Laney> Â¬_
<huats> :(
<huats> go ahead if you want hen
<Laney> i'll put it on the list
<slytherin> asac: Two questions. 1. Is there any plan to update obexd to latest upstream version? 2. Is libgeoclue-dev going to be moved to main? If not it needs to be removed from build-dep of gnome-bluetooth.
<dholbach> Ampelbein: thanks :)
<Ampelbein> dholbach: ;-) no problem.
<c_korn> if I know that sources cannot be compiled for some architecture is there some way to prevent it from building. or is the usual approach to just wait until it crashes?
<slytherin> damn, javadoc is horribly slow on powerpc.
<slytherin> c_korn: the architecture field in control file.
<slytherin> james_w: there are two copies of libstax-java source in new queue. Can you please nuke one of them?
<james_w> does it matter which?
<Laney> yay
<Laney> cdbs works once more
<slytherin> james_w: I don't know. It is a new package synced from Debian. And I am not sure who synced which one.
<james_w> should be identical then
<slytherin> james_w: sizes do not look different.
<asac> slytherin: not yet decided. i think we should do the mir for libgeoclue-dev
<asac> thanks for spotting it btw
<asac> slytherin: if you want to update obexd to latest give it a short
<slytherin> asac: Ok. Will try tonight.
<asac> thx
<slicer> Can you no longer see the list of subscribers to a bug on launchpad?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Laney> hihi
<Laney> slicer: you can
<sistpoty|work> just FYI: revu will be down for a few minutes (kernel upgrade)
<Laney> damn 'sploitz
<sistpoty|work> yep
<Laney> I should restart my vps really
<slicer> Laney: Aha. Er. How? I just subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors to my bug, but it's not listed anywhere on the bug page.
<Laney> slicer: It's where it always was... on the right
<Laney> seems ajaxified though, dunno how well it degrades
<slicer> Laney: Now you know; it doesn't :) Change of browser fixed it.
<Laney> slicer: get filin' a launchpad bug about that
<slytherin> slicer: or better, fix launchpad code yourself. :-)
<slicer> slytherin: AJAX? JavaScript? UI stuff? Pass :)
<blackmoon> hi i i've make a deb package with a firmware (redistribution permitted but no source code available) for a usb wireless card, can i upload it on my ppa?
<james_w> blackmoon: #launchpad will be able to tell you that
<blackmoon> ok, thank you james_w
<blackmoon> another thing, lintian gave me an "internal error: command failed with error code 123" anyone know someting about it?
<james_w> blackmoon: what were the messages just before that?
<Laney> alright LP, I get the idea, the package is broken
 * Laney hisses
<blackmoon> james_w: Now running lintian...
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> I'm not sure
<james_w> I think there are debug flags to get it to tell you everything it is doing
<blackmoon> james_w: but i think that it's not a problem no more, because the guy in #launchpad say me that i can't upload a binary packages...
<james_w> lintian -d
<happyaron> geser: I added a comment on that bug
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian and congratulations for becoming a FTP master
<bddebian> Heh, hi geser, thanks
<Laney> oh, argh, forgot that the new cdbs isn't in
 * Laney hides in shame
<james_w> Laney/directhex: process-removals is suggesting we remove monodoc, should we?
<directhex> james_w, source package? yes
<james_w> "ROM; Merged into other source by upstream"
<Laney> yes
<james_w> just source?
<directhex> the binaries should be provided by mono and mono-tools
<directhex> check the binaries you want to remove - version numbers of 2.0 can go, 2.4 should stay
<james_w>    monodoc | 2.0-2ubuntu2 |        karmic | source, all
<directhex> i think you should only have 2.4's
<james_w> no 2.4s
<directhex> oh, it's only a metapackage
<directhex> kill it
<james_w> ah, there's no monodoc package anymore
<james_w> don't you need a transitional package?
<james_w> I guess not if it's only a metapackage
<Laney> nothing should depend on it
<james_w> gone anyway
<Laney> ^5
<james_w> no, I mean for users
<directhex> james_w, the deps appear unversioned
<directhex> james_w, i.e. the metapackage pulls in the current correct versions
<happyaron> have you made a decision on tor package?
<directhex> so not worth fussing IMHO
<slytherin> happyaron: Did you ever ask anyone to make a decision?
<happyaron> slytherin: I just seen some people are discussing about it, but I went sleep before it ends.
<slytherin> happyaron: a discussion does not necessarily means a decision was sought. You hould mail on the mailing list if you want a decision to be made.
<happyaron> oh
<happyaron> slytherin: is ubuntu-motu list okay?
<slytherin> yes
<happyaron> thanks
<slicer> What's the correct marking for a bug when the conclusion is pretty much "Are you serious? I'm not going to fix that." ? .. Invalid?
<slytherin> slicer: isn't there a 'wont fix'?
<directhex> invalid.
<slicer> slytherin: Not that I can see, no..
<slicer> slytherin: That would have been ideal though.
<slytherin> slicer: which bug is this by the way?
<slicer> bug 385923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385923 in mumble ""Check for Updates" option should be removed" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385923
<slytherin> slicer: and why is that bug invalid?
<slicer> slytherin: It's not invalid, but if the user, manually, goes to click "Check for updates", I don't really consider it wrong that the program reports that a newer version exists.
<slytherin> slicer: and does the program allow the user to actually upgrade?
<slicer> slytherin: No, all it does is say "there's a new version available. Click here to go to the website where the tarball is.".
<slytherin> hmm then I think it is ok. I thought it was auto upgrade similar to firefox
<slicer> slytherin: The application has that, but that's already been disabled :) All that's left now is the response to manual user interaction.
<slytherin> that's fine then.
<juli__> Hi all! I always use http://sf.net in watch files for SourceForge based products.. but it doesn't work now. Has something changed?
<artfwo> juli__, does your problem look like http://paste.ubuntu.com/250008/ ?
<juli__> artfwo, no.  like this: -- In debian/watch, processing watchfile line:  http://sf.net/ini4j/ ini4j-(.+)-all\.zip debian  debian/orig-tar.sh / uscan warning: In debian/watch, / no matching hrefs for watch line
<juli__> artfwo, but several days ago everything was ok
<dholbach> nhandler: if you could do me a favour, could you please sticky the UDW announce on karmic, packaging and community cafÃ©?
<juli__> it looks like there is no such zip files at all..
<artfwo> juli__, I am getting "no matching hrefs for watch line" as well
<nhandler> dholbach: Did you make a forum post about it already?
<dholbach> nhandler: yep
<dholbach> just a few secs ago
<Laney> slicer, directhex: There is wontfix for those in bug control
<nhandler> dholbach: Do you have a link to the forum post?
<directhex> in lp?
<dholbach> just un seconde
<dholbach> just une seconde
<Laney> yes sir
<Laney> you should be in it from your motu powers
<dholbach> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1242611
<dholbach> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1242613
<dholbach> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1242612
<Laney> oh, that's quite soon
 * Laney should prepare
<Laney> dholbach: good looking brochure!
<nhandler> dholbach: Did you have a post in the karmic forum?
<dholbach> Laney: the design folks who did the layout are absolutely fantastic
<dholbach> nhandler: one of them should be
<dholbach> Laney: it took them a day what I couldn't achieve in a couple of weeks :)
<juli__> artfwo, I have the same for http://sf.net/scantailor/scantailor-(.*)\.tar\.gz
<Laney> I'm terrible at that kind of thing
<dholbach> Laney: same here - I was quite happy with I did before, but it looks very old compared to their brushed up version :)(
<artfwo> I think there is a problem with uscan's sourceforge backend then
<slytherin> juli__: When you use a line that I believe it goes through some SF redirector on Debian side. May be the redirector is giving problem.
<Laney> Adobe InDesign though... tsk tsk
<dholbach> oh well :)
<artfwo> the redirector looks okay, judging by the output of uscan --debug
<nhandler> dholbach: Fridge post is up (I'll make the last changes in a little bit). Forum posts are getting stickied now
 * dholbach hugs nhandler
<dholbach> thanks so much!
<artfwo> by the way, my package (scantailor) binaries have just disappeared from the NEW queue? but they didn't show up in the repositories yet - how long does it take after they pass the queue?
<Laney> nhandler: how can I get the forums to say I'm a member/developer?
<juli__> artfwo, very strange:(
<geser> artfwo: they should get published on the next publisher run (once hourly)
<juli__> artfwo, do you have any working watch file.. to check with?
<directhex> Laney, use pdfmod to hax the metadata into something more pleasing!
<artfwo> juli__, 3 packages from sourceforge are all broken
<artfwo> geser, thanks
<artfwo> I think a bug needs to be filed against uscan
<Laney> GNU/Linux FreeGraphicsEditor RMS edition
<directhex> Laney, I believe the abbreviated form is "emacs"
<slytherin> artfwo: no, you don't need to file a bug
<slytherin> artfwo: as I said it is probably the redirector on debian side that is giving problem.
<slytherin> juli__: Did you check cobertura rejection mail?
<juli__> slytherin, thanks.. so we should wait
<slytherin> when are usually the builds with depwait status are retried?
<juli__> sladen, that is why I cares about sf.net:) I corrected a package. Now it uses w3c-dtd-xhtml package for the problem files. And I plan to delete them form upstream.
<juli__> ups
<juli__> sorry, the previous message was for slytherin :)
<slytherin> juli__: Ok. Let me know when you have updated package. Or do you also have uploader rights for cobertura?
<geser> slytherin: when the package they depwait on is available (no manual interaction is needed)
<slytherin> so are there some kind fo triggers which restarts the build?
<juli__> slytherin, no I don't. Actually TB haven't contacted me yet, so I think I don't have uploads rights even for nrtbeans
<slytherin> Ok
<juli__> slytherin, as soon as sf.net is work, I'll check my corrections and let you know. Thanks!
<nhandler> Laney: I sent a PM to matthew and he took care of it for me
<Laney> alright
<richardmd>  ;)
<mhall119|work> hi
<mhall119|work> I'm making packages for a GDM and USplash theme
<mhall119|work> should the package change the default GDM and Usplash to use them?
<mhall119|work> also, I have a -desktop package that combined them, some other artwork and apps, if the individual gdm and usplah packages aren't setting themselves to be default, should the -desktop package be doing that?
<slytherin> mhall119|work: no
<mhall119|work> slytherin: https://launchpad.net/qimo is what I'm packaging for
<sladen> mhall119|work: you merely offere a higher dpkg-divert value
<mhall119|work> a what?
<Laney> aren't they alternatives?
<mhall119|work> I don't think so
<mhall119|work> GDM has an line in gdm.conf that tells which to use
<mhall119|work> usplash might be, I'd have to double check
<Laney> usplash is
<sladen> yes, update-alternatives, not dpkg-divert
<sladen> see /var/lib/dpkg/info/usplash-theme-ubuntu.postinst  (which installs with a priority of 10)
<mhall119|work> ok
<artfwo> guys, I have filed a sync request for p7zip-rar some time ago, and now it shows in my uploads on launchpad - is it okay? I have not made any debdiffs or touch the package in any other way
<mhall119|work> so  I should install with a higher priority than 10
<Laney> artfwo: what did you expect to happen?
<sladen> yes, I think kubuntu/xubuntu use 20;  so use 30
<mhall119|work> ok
<artfwo> Laney, well I didn't expect I shall be the uploader
<mhall119|work> how about for GDM?
<Laney> artfwo: you made the contribution, its your credit :)
<artfwo> hmm, okay
<slytherin> mhall119|work: why do you want to make it default?
<sladen> mhall119|work: not sure;  the best thing to do is to hunt out a similar theme package and look at it's source!
<sladen> artfwo: and in this day-and-age you gotten know *who* to blame ;-)
<mhall119|work> slytherin: it's a kids-distro, and the GDM theme has a face browser
<artfwo> :)
<mhall119|work> I figured it would make it more kid-friendly to have it after install, rather than having to go to Admin panels to set it
<mhall119|work> ah, okay, looks like maybe GDM used alternatives too
<mhall119|work> but does the login-window configuration dialog change alternatives?  It doesn't seem to
<arnd-arndnet> Hi, is there an irc channel related to ubuntu backports?
<mhall119|work> arnd-arndnet: #ubuntu-backports?
<arnd-arndnet> but this channel is empty, or is this expected?
<mhall119|work> ah, you must have just created it
<mhall119|work>  /msg alis help  <- to search for channels
<hggdh> you can try #ubuntu-quality, or #ubuntu-testing
<arnd-arndnet> thx
<bddebian> Anyone know who Rafael Proenca / cypherbios is?
<ximion> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/~cypherbios
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, the maintainer of aptoncd. Why?
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: Going forward, can you please subscribe me to all the sync bugs related to maven?
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, yes, sure. I was going to send an email to ttx, because I found a package that require a sync, that hasbeen modified by him
<fabrice_sp> you can see all the required packages in my ppa (still trying to be able to build maven-plugin-tools, but I'm near)
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: I'm trying to figure out if he is going to upload aptoncd to Debian any time "soon" (Since it's been over a year already).  We are going to remove libnautilus-burn soonish
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, I'm helping him with the packaging, and there is a version in the ppa, but I don't know about uploading to debian. I can send him an email, if you want
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: Please do.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, for the moment, I have 19 packages to sync from debian, and one to merge (and maybe another one, depending on the repsonse of ttx)
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: which package is that?
<fabrice_sp> classworlds
<slytherin> let me take a look
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, ttx deleted a dependency, but the latest version in debian added 2 more
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, my concern is that ttx speaks about a MIR for classworlds, so adding more dependency is not welcome
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: right, as per my discussion with ttx. We should only try to get maven stack in. Modifying other libraries to work with maven (installing pom etc) is for karmic + 1
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, so that mean that we need to change all the packages from debian to get rid of pom etc? Or the actual packages will stay as is (with the FTBFS)
<fabrice_sp> if they stay as-is, I'll stop playing with my ppa, to try to build maven-plugin-tools
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: What I meant is that the libraries outside of maven stack should not be modified.
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: ludovic is trying to integrate maven with debhelper so that the projects that use maven can build them against the system libraries
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, could you please have a look at my ppa (https://launchpad.net/~fabricesp/+archive/testbuild) 16 of the 20 libs are non maven, AFAIK
<fabrice_sp> just to know what I should do
<slytherin> let me take a look
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-)
<fabrice_sp> (except plexus-sec-dispatcher, all the other ubuntu1 version are not right)
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, ^
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: following libraries are not related to maven - commons*, google*, neckohtml, netbeans. I am not sure about wagon.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, wagon seems to be linked: "tools to manage Maven artifacts and deployment "
<slytherin> then it is
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, I already opened sync request for some of them (google, at least, so should I give you the bug numbers, so that you unsubscribe motu?
<slytherin> sure
<fabrice_sp> bug #412848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412848 in libgoogle-collections-java "Sync libgoogle-collections-java 0~20080808-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (after #412352)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412848
<fabrice_sp> actually, it's the only one
<fabrice_sp> I was trying to get it built before requesting the syncs
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, so my next question is what am I suppose to do next? I have some dependency scheme of packages so should I request the sync for the ones  linked to maven ? Ofr freeze myself?
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: go ahead and request syncs for packages related to maven
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, ok. I'll subscribe you to them, then. And when a required package cannot be synced, what is the fix? (like libgoogle, for example)
<slytherin> nothing, leave the package as it is in Ubuntu.
<slytherin> or does other stack depends on google*
<fabrice_sp> I'll check, but that mean that we won't be able to fix all the FTBFS in maven  package
<fabrice_sp> slytherin, other packages depends on libgoogle ( libdoxia-java and  eucalyptus-javadeps)
<fabrice_sp> so we can't sync it
<slytherin> better drop me and ttx a mail
<slytherin> got to go now.
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks slytherin
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, Rafael is not active any more, so he won't upload the package to debian. I'll submit a diff to Ubuntu, but can't do it for debian
<fabrice_sp> this is what the actual developer of aptoncd told me
<rugby471> hi guys
<rugby471> just a quick question
<rugby471> the package f-spot
<rugby471> what patching system does it use?
<rugby471> what-patch gives me quilt
<rugby471> however all the patch files contain @DPATCH@ and all the usual dpatch headers
<geser> check the build-depends
<gilir> could someone add me to the REVU reviewer team and ubuntu-universe-sponsors team please ? :)
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: I can just grab it from Ubuntu or if you want to maintain it officially stick it on mentors.debian.net and I can sponsor for you if you want.
<pochu> is it just me (or my dns) or half of the internet is down?
<pochu> even http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ is down for me :)
<therm> its there for me
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, the only problem is that as it's maintained in launchpad, there is no 'orig tarball. So I've written a get-orig-source. I'll upload it to debian, as soon as I understand how it works :-)
<c_korn> hm, games usually depend on /usr/lib/libGL.so . can I add some dependecy to ensure that it exists ?
<sebner> c_korn: might be in libgl1-mesa-glx
<geser> isn't depending on libgl1 enough?
<c_korn> sebner: so can I safely make it depend on libgl1-mesa-glx ? or can this cause conflicts because my libGL comes from the nvidia drivers actually
<superm1> shouldn't that be figured out automatically though by shlib deps for your binary?
<geser> c_korn: does the nvidia package provide libgl1?
<c_korn> I don't use the package but the installer from nvidia.com
<sebner> c_korn: I have both packages installed so I don't think there is a problem
 * sebner uses the driver from the archive
<c_korn> somehow it got not figured out by shlib deps. I got this error: loading libGL.so: QGL_Init: Can't load libGL.so from /etc/ld.so.conf: libGL.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<gilligan_> hi
<gilligan_> does anyone here have some insight into networkmanager ? I'm trying to to diagnose some problem with a GSM usb-stick where networkmanager is stuck in Stage 4 (IPV4 config) and never gets to Stage 5 (IPV4 config commit) -- same hardware works fine with Jaunty
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Where can I find some resources that explains the differences between Debian and Ubuntu in term of packaging (that is: what should I do to an ubuntu package to upload it to debian?)
<sebner> fabrice_sp: basically it's 1) changelog 2) menu file , other than that just patches which are written for ubuntu
<dtchen> anyone mind uploading http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/upload_queue/ please?
<fabrice_sp> sebner, and to take over an existing package? lintian is speaking about nmu, but I'm trying to upgrade a package, so I'm not sure NMU applies
<fabrice_sp> and I should upload source and binary?
<sebner> fabrice_sp: doesn't apply.
<sebner> fabrice_sp: where?
<fabrice_sp> to mentors.debian.net
<jbernard__> would someone mind taking a look at a package on REVU? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lua-iconv)
<sebner> fabrice_sp: AFAIK, uploading is the same as uploading to revu. just use dput
<fabrice_sp> sebner, ohh. in their FAQ, the example is done with the file ending with i386.changes, so I thought it was binary upload
<james_w> dtchen: sure
<fabrice_sp> I'll upload the source then. Thanks!
<sebner> you're welcome :)
<dtchen> james_w: many thanks. it's build-tested, of course (i'm using it for work)
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, uploaded (http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=aptoncd) I'm sure I will have to fix things :-)
<james_w> jbernard__: looks pretty good (though a watch file would be nice), but are you sure you don't want to get it in to Debian first?
<james_w> you are targetting Debian in the changelog and closing a Debian ITP
<yvan300> hello motu guys :)
<jbernard__> james_w: ive already uploaded it to debian, its in NEW right now
<james_w> aha
<jbernard__> but i wanted to try and get it into karmic before the freeze
<james_w> that's fine
<james_w> you need to target karmic though
<jbernard__> good call
<james_w> and make it a -0ubuntu1 version, instead of -1
<jbernard__> what about the LP reference?
<jbernard__> aha
<james_w> nah, that's ok
<james_w> unless there is a bug filed
<jbernard__> there was
<james_w> you can reference it then
<jbernard__> ok, perfect
<yvan300> you guys should really make the wiki a bit more straightforward
<jbernard__> james_w: ill make those changes and re-upload
<jbernard__> james_w: thanks!
<dtchen> yvan300: sure, what do you take issue with specifically?
<yvan300> dtchen, most of it actually, i am trying to catch along but it is so difficult, if you guys could make it a bit easier then more noobs would be able to learn the motu traid :D
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: I have to head home, I'll try to hit it up when I get there
<james_w> "you should really eradicate world poverty"
<james_w> every one agrees, we just need to know where to start
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, thanks!
<dtchen> james_w: thanks again
<james_w> np
<james_w> jbernard__: I now see your email address and feel a bit stupid :-)
<jbernard__> james_w: no worries ;)
<jbernard__> james_w: does the "-0ubuntu1" allow the debian package to easily override once it's in the archive? or could it be "-1ubuntu1"?
<james_w> it should be -0ubuntu1, which will mean the tools that compare archives will see it as lower
<james_w> and so it will show up as something to merge
<jbernard__> ok, thats what I suspected, makes total sense
<james_w> the "ubuntu" stops it being automatically overridden, so it would need a "sync" requested when appropriate
<james_w> dead easy to do though, so you can just ask in here when needed
<jbernard__> got it
<jbernard__> ive make the upload, so the pulse should pick it up shortly
<jbernard__> s/make/made
<james_w> can someone do a second review of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lua-iconv please?
<jbernard__> doh, forgot -sa, no orig tarball got uploaded
<jbernard__> should be fixed on the next pulse
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> I grabbed the old one anyway
<jbernard__> ok, all looks good now
<james_w> jbernard__: you have my advocation. Strictly we need a second to upload, though I'm tempted to bypass that in this case
<james_w> it will only take a couple of minutes for someone else to review though
<jbernard__> sounds good, thanks!
<iulian> james_w, jbernard__: I've just reviewed it and found nothing to complain about.  Do you want me do upload it?
<iulian> s/do/to/
<jbernard__> iulian: i vote yes ;) but im not sure if it's up to me
<iulian> jbernard__, james_w: lua-iconv has just been uploaded.
 * iulian heads to bed.
<iulian> Good night.
<porthose> would a kind MOTU please ACK bug #415102 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415102 in ubuntu "Sync upnp-inspector 0.2.2+dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415102
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-18
<daurn> jbernard__, ping?
<jbernard__> daurn: yep
<daurn> jbernard__, i don't understand revu, but the latest diff looks like its created errors?
<jbernard__> daurn: which diff are you referring to? lua-iconv?
<daurn> ya
<jbernard__> hang on, lemme check
<daurn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/diff?upid1=6660&upid2=6657
<jbernard__> that diff looks good to me, which part is concering?
<james_w> jbernard__: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lua-iconv is already available if you would like to subscribe to the bugs for the package
<daurn> all the warnnings/notices in the revu look like they're created in that diff to me?
<jbernard__> the only warning refers to no debian/watch file or get-orig-source target, that I see
<jbernard__> james_w: awesome, thanks
<daurn> jbernard__, "Package is for "unstable" but only packages for "karmic" are currently accepted. " and "The changelog does not close a bug from Launchpad. New packages should have a needs-packaging bug and the upload close it using the syntax "(LP: #nnnn)". "
<jbernard__> ahh
<jbernard__> that was an early upload
<jbernard__> i fixed that shortly after
<daurn> and my point is the latest diff looked like it un-fixed it to me (it changed back to unstable from karmic, and to changed it from LP: top Closed:
<daurn> s/top/to/
<jbernard__> so the diff that I'm seeing from the main page: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/lua-iconv-0908172306/lua-iconv_6-0ubuntu1.diff
<jbernard__> i do agree that the diff you've got looks a bit odd
<daurn> don't worryu
<daurn> I fiigured it out
<james_w> daurn: I think you are looking at an earlier version, and so the diff is backwards
<daurn> I just didn't understand revu
<daurn> james_w, yeah >.<
<james_w> no worries then :-)
<daurn> i don't even know what it means, but why doesn't it have the get-orig-source thing?
<daurn> btw, will it get pushed upstream to debian?
<jbernard__> ahh, the lua hosting site creates a new (and random) url for each new release tarball
<jbernard__> daurn: yep, it's waiting in the NEW queue at the moment
<daurn> ok
<jbernard__> i don't have an easy solution for that, if anyone's got one, though, I'm all ears
<daurn> jbernard__, care to look into another, much much larger request for packaging me?
<jbernard__> daurn: i can at least take a look..
<daurn> i haven't even made a needs-packaging bug yet as it  might seem like too much
<daurn> jbernard__, http://oproj.tuxfamily.org/wiki/doku.php?id=lgob
<daurn> I don't know if you can work from an AUR package?
<daurn> but theres one here: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=25570
<jbernard__> there's a 'Sources' link that has a tarball, so that's probably where I would start
<daurn> ok, well, I've gotta head off now
<daurn> but thanks for doing iconv
<jbernard__> sure, file the needs-packaging bug and I'll see if i can get to it
<jbernard__> no problem
<daurn> means lgob is the only dep left for my app that has no package
<daurn> :)
<daurn> cya
<rowinggolfer> hi folks.
<rowinggolfer> can anyone point me to a howto on where to put my .desktop file?
<rowinggolfer> I am trawling the web with no joy.
<rowinggolfer> project is http://launchpad
<rowinggolfer> https://launchpad.net/~rowinggolfer/+archive/ppa
<rowinggolfer> I have a working deb, but need to get desktop integration.
<rowinggolfer> this is a pure python app, using disutils
<rowinggolfer> no worries - found this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PythonRecipes/DebianPackage
<kklimonda> is there an official way of getting diff between orig and dfsg tarballs? or somewhere where I can see a list of changes?
<directhex> kklimonda, it ought to be documented in README.source
<directhex> or failing thst the packager should have a get-orig-source rule which does it
<kklimonda> directhex: thanks.
<EagleScreen> should debootstrap 1.0.15 from Debian unstable know about karmic release?
<ipatrol> Hello?
<EagleScreen> many few people at this time
<ipatrol> devel sent me here
<EagleScreen> visit the links on the top, ipatrol
<ipatrol> yes
<dholbach> good morning
<porthose> dholbach, good morning :)
<porthose> would a kind MOTU please ACK Bug #415102.  :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415102 in ubuntu "Sync upnp-inspector 0.2.2+dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415102
<dholbach> porthose: taking a look
<slytherin> dholbach: ping
<porthose> dholbach, ty :)
<dholbach> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> dholbach: Sorry, I couldn't respond to the mail till now. Have been busy with other tasks.
<dholbach> slytherin: no worries - just follow up on it when you have the time - I'll keep nagging you ;-)
<slytherin> asac: I tried updating obexd yesterday. It was simple 'get new source and build'. I couldn't actually test it. It seems my phone's bluetooth support is broken.
<porthose> dholbach, ty :)
<dholbach> no worries
 * porthose huges dholbach
 * dholbach hugs porthose back :)
 * quadrispro hugs all
 * quadrispro asks if everyone has some time to spend in a REView
 * quadrispro oops, s/everyone/anyone
<slytherin> ttx: Any ides why ant-optional is not getting installed, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30455994/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-ia64.java3d_1.5.2%2Bdfsg-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ttx> slytherin: yes.
<ttx> let me fix that.
<slytherin> what is the issue?
<ttx> slytherin: basically I moved libxerces2-java to build "any" so that it can have spearate recommends on -gcj based on  arch
<slytherin> Right you told me.
<ttx> however libxerces2-java fails to build, since it build depends on itself.
<slytherin> he he
<ttx> well, it depends on ant
<ttx> which depends on libxerces2-java
<ttx> so... I'll just move it back to arch:all and suggest the -gcj stuff
<slytherin> Let me know when you fix it. :-)
<slytherin> asac: Not sure if you know this already. There is a bluetooth plugin in network-manager (in karmic). From build logs it looks like the plugin is getting built but it is not installed anywhere.
<ttx> slytherin: as soon as i'm done with my sponsoring task.
<slytherin> Take you time. Anytime before weekend.
<ttx> it's blocking most java builds on ia64/armel/sparc.
<ttx> so I'll fix it now.
<asac> let me check
<asac> slytherin: you mean on applet side?
<slytherin> asac: no, I mean the core code.
<asac> slytherin: on the daemon side there is no plugin ... its directly linked into the main binary and in libnm-util
<asac> but i think you are right. the applet needs libgnome-bluetooth build depends and also ensure that the plugin gets installed to right place
<slytherin> asac: I misunderstood the build log of daemon then.
<juli__> slytherin, Hi! It looks like sf.net still have problem:( so I checked my corrections manually. Should I upload cobertura on REVU again?
<slytherin> juli__: Upload it somewhere so that I can review.
<juli__> slytherin, ok I'll upload on REVU soon
<juli__> slytherin, done: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/cobertura
<slytherin> give me some time, busy with office task.
<asac> slytherin: ok so https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/trunk will have it tonight
<asac> upload will happen in two days or so
<juli__> slytherin, ok, no problem:) Thank you!
<Hew> fteqcc "failed to upload", what can be done about this?
<pochu> what was the way to create a tarball with the same hash? -m option to tar?
<geser> Hew: bug in LP, let me find the bug number
<Laney> pochu: tar --mtime=@0
<Laney> and then gzip -9fn
<pochu> Laney: that's it, thanks!
<juanje> dholbach: Hi, have you some time?
<Hew> geser, would it be bug 408528?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408528 in launchpad-foundations "lucene2 synced from Debian, built fine but failed to upload" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528
<geser> Hew: yes
<Hew> thanks for the info geser, at least it's not a problem with fteqcc itself :-)
<juanje> dholbach: well, when you can... I did change the stuff you told me the other day on the http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/nautilus-md5sum package. Please, have a look at it when you can. Thanks ;-)
<gilir> can someone change my status on REVU ? I can't review any package
<juanje> if someone is up for reviewing, I got two packages just cleaned up which need a review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/nautilus-md5sum  and  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mount-systray  ;-)
<juanje> thanks in advance
<juanje> :-)
<slytherin> juanje: Does the md5sum extension work only for ISO files?
<pochu> Laney: I get this:
<pochu> E: scribes: package-contains-ancient-file usr/share/doc/scribes/TODO 1970-01-01
<pochu> E: scribes: package-contains-ancient-file usr/share/doc/scribes/changelog.gz 1970-01-01
<pochu> I: scribes source: tar-errors-from-source scribes-0.4~r473/intltool-update: implausibly old time stamp 1970-01-01 00:00:00
<pochu> I: scribes source: tar-errors-from-source scribes-0.4~r473/intltool-merge.in: implausibly old time stamp 1970-01-01 00:00:00
<Laney> yeah
<pochu> Laney: seems to be because of --mtime=@0
<Laney> you can change @0 to something else if you want
<pochu> Laney: something arbitrary?
<Laney> something more recent
<Laney> I'd be tempted to ignore or override it though
<Laney> or you could somehow retrieve the timestamp of the downloaded tarball and use that
<sistpoty|work> gilir: done
<pochu> it's a bzr export
<pochu> and seems to be changing the timestamps with every export
<Laney> well you could always be clever with commit timestamps or something
<Laney> I'm not sure that it's worth the effort
<juanje> Sylphid: I'm really sure, I just fix some stuff at teh package
<juanje> ups
<juanje> slytherin: the message was for you
<juanje> slytherin: I can ask to who did it, but I think that, by now, it just work for iso files
<slytherin> juanje: what I meant was , does it not work for other file types?
<juanje> slytherin: I think not. At least, not in this version
<slytherin> ttx: LOL. Now you have more problems related to libxerces2-java. :-P
<slytherin> libxerces2-java itself is failing to build.
<ttx> slytherin: nah, just a timing issue :)
<slytherin> oh
<ttx> the all package was not published yet for those to use it
<ttx> I'm retrying them now
<Laney> whoops
<Laney> I totally forgot to reply to that archive reorg mail
 * Laney does it Right Now
<hyperair> what archive reorg mail?
<Laney> hyperair: secret mail to developers
<DktrKranz> hyperair: MOTUs were asked which kind of upload privileges they want after archive-reorg
<Laney> How to organise hyperair into the cupboard and only let him out for feeding
<hyperair> ah i see
 * hyperair forces Laney into a cupboard and tosses a donut in
<Laney> first toss, then no forcing required
<Laney> nomnom
<DktrKranz> and obviously secret plans for hyperair to pay ice cream to MOTUs
<hyperair> haha
<gilir> sistpoty|work: thanks :)
<Laney> my laptop is so screwed
<directhex> Laney, unscrew it!
<Laney> I think it would involve a reinstall
<Laney> damn osx
<Laney> maybe Karmic will work well on it now :O
<directhex> my office pc died :(
<Laney> hardware?
<directhex> Laney, clunky disk
<Laney> at least applecare is decent
<directhex> it's intensely slow. unless you take it to your nearest aplpe premium partner under applecare, and add some middleman for speed
<Laney> I took it in on Thursday and got it back on Monday for a new hard disk
<Laney> was reasonable enough
<directhex> my machine's in bristol right now
<Laney> orly
<ttx> slytherin: the build issue with libxerces2-java on ia64/sparc/armel should be gone now.
<directhex> yays!
<alkisg> How could I put a repository into a CD? Like, when I insert the ubuntu alternate CD, when I get prompted to install packages from it?
<slytherin> ttx: thanks. Let me try rebuilding the packages that were failing for me.
<slytherin> alkisg: you might want to try aptoncd.
<alkisg> slytherin: I think that doesn't use the same method like the ubuntu alternate cd, i.e. the end user needs aptoncd to install the packages
<slytherin> alkisg: Then probably it is the update-manager that handles alternate CD specially.
<alkisg> I think so, yeah. I'm looking for information on what to put to the CD so that update-manager can handle it
<alkisg> I tried putting the dist/ and pool/ folders from my repository, but it didn't work...
<slicer> Can someone give me access to bug 407848 so I can close it? :) I have access to 412873 but that's a duplicate of the original, so I can't change its state.
<ubottu> Bug 407848 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/407848 is private
<Laney> slicer: try now
<slicer> Laney: Thanks :)
<slicer> Laney: BTW, how come I didn't have access to it originally? I thought I had access to all bugs against my package?
<Laney> slicer: Private bugs are visible to their subscribers only
<slicer> Laney: Ah. So I won't be notified until someone on the bug squad makes it public?
<Laney> right
<Laney> of course you could join bug control yourself...
<slicer> Laney: Would that be appropriate when I'm really only interested in bug reports for 2-3 packages?
<Laney> I don't think that matters
<slicer> Laney: In that case.. *goes to google*
<Laney> but ask bdmurray
<slicer> bdmurray: Is it appropriate to join bug control when I'm really only interested in bug reports for "my" packages?
<Laney> imho we are short of triagers for universe packages, and want people with a special interest
<slicer> Well, the original bug report was 12 days old when the duplicate was filed; I never saw the original, or I'd have the fix commited 2 weeks ago ;)
<slytherin> slicer: have you subscribed to the bug mail for your packages?
<Laney> go for it
<slicer> slytherin: I get email for all other bug reports, but apparantly not private ones.
<slytherin> hmm
<slytherin> got to go, see you all later.
<slicer> Ah, there's even a "way to join" for upstream developers. Perfect :)
<mzz> so (still assuming you let me ask packaging questions here even if they're not directly motu-related) I'm still trying to find the best tools to use for actual building. I really want to like sbuild/schroot's lvm-snapshot support, but I can't find a way to not reinstall all the source deps for every build conveniently.
<mzz> is there some trick I'm overlooking? I'd expect there to be a way to snapshot the master image with the source deps installed, so they don't have to be refetched for every build attempt
<mzz> I think I can actually do that by hand, but if it was a reasonable thing to do I'd expect it to be easier :)
<mathiaz> mzz: I'd suggest to use a local apt cache so that packages don't need to be refetched from the network
<mzz> mathiaz: oh, the network fetch isn't an issue, it's the time needed to actually install a few 100 source dependencies.
<mathiaz> mzz: I wouldn't recommend to leave all the dependencies in the pristine chroot
<mzz> yeah, that wouldn't be good.
<mzz> but couldn't I make a snapshot of that pristine chroot, then install the dependencies, then have sbuild make another snapshot of that snapshot?
<mathiaz> mzz: if you leave dependency in the source chroot then you may miss some of them in your build-dep
<mathiaz> mzz: and then the build would fail on the buildd
<mzz> this is true.
<mathiaz> mzz: another solution is to have two chroots
<mathiaz> mzz: a minimal one and another one with all the build deps always installed
<mzz> I understand why sbuild goes out of its way to use a clean build environment, and I think that's a really good thing. But I *also* want a way to build a package more quickly while I'm still tinkering with the packaging.
<mzz> yes, and I think I could do that second chroot via a snapshot of the first
<mathiaz> mzz: you could just create a second chroot and install all the build dep in the source chroots
<mathiaz> mzz: if you use schroot+lvm, you can enter the source chroot with: schroot -c karmic-source -u root
<mathiaz> mzz: you just append -source to the name of the chroot
<mathiaz> mzz: everything you installed in the -source chroot will be kept afterwards
<mzz> I think I'll just create a snapshot of my jaunty_chroot lv, install the source deps in there, install dependencies (as indicated above :), get the package working right, then roll jaunty_chroot back to the snapshot (still have to look up the right lvm incantation for that)
<mathiaz> mzz: does lvm support snapshots of snapshots?
<mzz> let's find out!
<c_korn> how do I tell cdbs to run autoreconf at the beginning ? google pointed me to a cdbs patch which never got into ubuntu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-December/026954.html
<mathiaz> c_korn: you can use the makebuilddir target
<mzz> (so far this really is me tinkering for personal use, but I'll probably end up building a few things that should go into a ppa at least)
<mathiaz> c_korn: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255153/
<c_korn> mathiaz: thanks
<EagleScreen> hello
<EagleScreen> i am trying to build some ubuntu packages in my Debian system, but i have problems: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255159/
<sistpoty|work> EagleScreen: I assume you should use --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com as an argument to pbuilder (or some such)
<mzz> mathiaz: my other plan was to use schroot's session support, but I haven't manage to trick sbuild into using an existing session yet
<EagleScreen> yes i am using de.archive.uubntu.com
<EagleScreen> but well spelled lol
<virtuald> do you have ubuntu-keyring installed?
<EagleScreen> i have found a workaround, adding --allow-unauthenticated to debootstrapopts
<EagleScreen> shall i install it in host system or in chroot?
<virtuald> no idea
<mathiaz> mzz: I'd suggest to create two chroots (ie have two lvs) and put all the build dep in one them
<mathiaz> mzz: you can always get rid of the latter when you've finished testing your packakge
<mathiaz> mzz: building a chroot is a matter of minutes
<mzz> mathiaz: yes, but the set of build deps won't be the same all the time (I'm not building the same package all the time) so I'd have to blow that chroot away again frequently. Just basing it off the perfectly decent chroot I already have seems reasonable.
 * mzz is picky
<mzz> also, assuming lvm actually supports stacking snapshots like this it'll be pretty easy.
 * mzz tries.
<mathiaz> mzz: sure - if lvm supports snapshots of snapshots
<mathiaz> mzz: otherwise you can just dd the minimal chroot when creating a new one
<mzz> :( "Snapshots of snapshots are not supported yet."
<mzz> and it was such a good plan! Let's see if I can find an eta for this
<bddebian> Heya gang
<EagleScreen> i have installed uubntu-keyring due to the pbuilder problem here http://paste.ubuntu.com/255159/
<EagleScreen> this is the output http://paste.ubuntu.com/255172/
<EagleScreen> any mention to ubuntu?
<EagleScreen> cdebootstrap 0.5.5 and debootstrap 1.0.15 (Debian unstable) don't know about jaunty and karmic suits
<alkisg> I have a repository with educational apps, how can I put them in a DVD so that update-manager would be able to read the packages from it?
<hggdh> c.f. bug 415435 -- what is the S.O.P. for licence mismatch (packages states GPLV2+, source states GPLV3+)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415435 in gnubik "gnubik is GPLv3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415435
<Laney> hggdh: Forward it to Debian please
<Laney> the package is on sync
<Laney> in
<hggdh> yes, I was unsure. Will do, manually, since reportbug seems to like to sigsegv on me. thanks, Laney
<qnix> what's the site for *-security packages ?
<kees> qnix: do you mean security.ubuntu.com?
<qnix> I mean something like packages.ubuntu.com
<qnix> but for the packages in *-security repos
<kees> qnix: normally i just use launchpad directly.  which package do you want details on?
<kees> (I thought packages.ubuntu.com contained -security too, but it lags a bit)
<qnix> I would like to see if a security patch I've made is in the repository and available
<kees> qnix: which package?
<ryanakca> look at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<packagename>/  ... might see something in the changelog
<qnix> seems that the url of ryanakca do the job. but my patch is not yet available.
<qnix> thanks
<j^> happyaron, was anything specific not ok with the package i updated at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/oggvideotools
<happyaron> j^: not really, but the project maintainer of gmchess asked me to do that
<happyaron> j^: oh, sorry
<happyaron> get mistaken on project
<j^> i uploaded a version based on cdbs, you another version, was just wondering
<happyaron> j^: That's a mis-doing on oggvideotools, but didn't have time to ask you, so sorry
<j^> i dont care one way or the other, as long as it gets into 9.10
<happyaron> j^: I didn't see anyone replied on that bug
<happyaron> j^: if you could maintain it that's better, the day before yesterday a friend ask me to help him maintain package for his project
<happyaron> but his project still needs lots of work, i am also considering how to deal with that oggvideotools,:)
<happyaron> j^: you could re-upload to replace mine
<j^> right now i can not upload packages to universe, so i would depend on someone else doing that, i am willing to update it as new version of oggvideotools come out
<j^> happyaron, can you upload to universe?
<happyaron> j^: I am also not a MOTU, either
<happyaron> j^: no, I cannot
<j^> ok will push my version again, i think it a bit cleaner and has a working debian/watch file
<happyaron> j^: that's good
<mzz> another stupid sbuild question: I can see in the logs a .ddeb was built, but it's not copied out of the chroot. Any way I can change that?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: I pushed a new upload for merb.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great - I'm reviewing the other packages
<jtimberman> mathiaz: thanks!
<mathiaz> jtimberman: IIRC libsyntax-ruby   is the only package that does *not* to be reviewed on REVU?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: IIRC libsyntax-ruby   is the only package that does *not* need to be reviewed on REVU?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: correct, libsyntax-ruby is deprecated in chef for coderay.
<jtimberman> coderay/libcoderay-ruby
<mathiaz> jtimberman: libsystemu-ruby is already in debian
<jtimberman> mathiaz: that happened over the weekend.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great - I've filed a sync request for ubuntu
<jtimberman> mathiaz: awesome, thanks!
<jtimberman> i saw notices that the mixlibs were synced
<jtimberman> oh, and merb is MIT license.. updating the man pages and other bits.
<jtimberman> the installedfiles and .configs were there from when i built the actual .debs for my testing repo :)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: new upload for merb (two uploads, consider the second, i didn't verify the lsdiff output before uploading the first)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ok - I'll review that after stompserver
<jtimberman> thanks!
<mathiaz> jtimberman: IIUC stompserver doesn't provide an upstream release tarball?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and this why the package is native?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - no it seems that there is an upstream tarball
<mathiaz> jtimberman:      stompserver-0.9.9.tgz
<jtimberman> mathiaz: Not entirely sure, I adapted the package btm was working on for Debian.
<jtimberman> stompserver isn't even in Debian NEW yet per the ITP
<jtimberman> mathiaz: coderay re-uploaded w/ changes.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: send feedback on stompserver - that one may require more work
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ok
<mathiaz> jtimberman: let me know if you have any question on the comments I made
<jtimberman> mathiaz: i'm making a couple changes to chef based on what you've looked at for other packages (man page license stuff, copyright, uploaders, etc)
<jtimberman> going to finish that and re-upload chef in a few.
<jtimberman> then i'll take a look at stompserver
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - I haven't looked at chef yet
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I'll go through the other package first (merb, stompserver, coderay)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and then start looking at chef
<jtimberman> k
<jtimberman> mathiaz: does the patch tagging recognize "DebianSpecific" as well?
<jtimberman> or just UbuntuSpecific
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I don't think DebianSpecific is recognized
<jtimberman> okay.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you can see the Debian Patch tagging guidline in DEP3
<mathiaz> jtimberman: however dep.debian.net is offline for now
<mathiaz> jtimberman: google for "debian dep3" and you'll be able to retrieve a cached copy
<jtimberman> came up for me.
<jtimberman> :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: dep.debian.net?
<jtimberman> http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - interesting
<mathiaz> jtimberman: anyway there doesn't seem to have a DebianSpecific tag.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: can i have 'daemonuser' be 'daemon', which already exists?
<jtimberman> or does it have to be a user named after the package/service
<mathiaz> jtimberman: better to have user named after the service
<jtimberman> k
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255351/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^ this is some code to create a system user that needs to be added to the postinst script
<jtimberman> gotcha.
<jtimberman> so i try to set the log directory in the stompserver config file, and it wants to make it /var/lib/stompserver/var/log/stompserver .. i know FHS discourages logging to /var/lib, but this seems to be a limitation in the stompserver code itself.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and you also need to delete user on purge (in the postrm script)
<jtimberman> will do
<mathiaz> jtimberman: could symlink /var/log/stompserver to /var/lib/stompserver/log/ ?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: apache2 does something similar
<jtimberman> egh, it puts the pid file in there too.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - how easy would it be to patch the code to do the right thing?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: that i don't know, i've not looked at the stompserver internals.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it seems that it just takes /var/lib/stompserver as the base directory
<jtimberman> well thats in the config file.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255358/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: in lib/stomp_server.rb
<jtimberman> oh geez. thats silly.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: could a logdir and pidfile options be added?
<stochastic> can any kind motu with a free minute take a loot at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/a2jmidid ?
<james_w> stochastic: are you on karmic?
<stochastic> james_w, I have a karmic boot, yes
<james_w> are you logged in to it now?
<stochastic> nope not right now
<james_w> ok
<stochastic> why?
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/255382/
<stochastic> ahh, yes, someone told me that 3.8.2 was the latest standards version and packages should be updated to that, so that's what I did
<james_w> plus, you don't need to list all the files that are under the dominant license, just list the exceptions
<stochastic> okay, I just wanted clarity on the matter, shall I create a new upload?
<james_w> sure
<james_w> advocated
 * james_w goes back to coding
<stochastic> james_w: thanks
<binarymutant> will the Dev Week schedule be put into the Fridge's calendar?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-19
<blizzkid> lo all. I saw there is python-twitter but couldn't find one for identi.ca, so I hacked python-twitter for identi.ca. Would this be something interesting to include in Ubuntu?
<micahg> can someone verify that I did this sync request bug properly before I subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors? bug 400410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400410 in nmap "please sync nmap to version 5 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400410
<StevenK> The Debian maintainer just requested one ...
<micahg> ah, didn't see the bug, sorry, I filed this as a wishlist a month ago
<micahg> wait, was it this bug 415730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415730 in nmap "[Wishlist] Nmap 5 in Karmic (dup-of: 400410)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 400410 in nmap "please sync nmap to version 5 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400410
<micahg> no, I didn't see it
<micahg> StevenK: so, should I do anything with the bug I filed?
<StevenK> micahg: I'll sort it out, hold on
<micahg> ok
 * micahg was hoping to get a sync bug right after messing up so many times :)
<micahg> ah
<micahg> now I see it
<StevenK> micahg: Fixed
<micahg> thanks
<micahg> good thing I asked
<micahg> would've screwed up another sync request
<qiyong> is there spanish ubutnu channel?
<Flannel> qiyong: #ubuntu-es
<qiyong> Flannel: thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<stochastic> what does it mean to 'ack' a bug?
<dholbach> acknowledge, approve
<stochastic> i.e. upload a fix?
<directhex> stochastic, depends on the type of bug
<stochastic> directhex, can you explain, or is there a page definition somewhere?
<directhex> stochastic, usually acks are used in ubuntu for bugs requiring sponsorship - i.e. the bug gets ack'd to say "yes, this should happen"
<\sh> moins
 * stochastic thinks he understands now
<stochastic> so it would be kosher to ask if a motu could ack Bug #325004 and Bug #415680  ??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 325004 in denemo "Upgrade denemo package from 0.7.7 to 0.8.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325004
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415680 in tap-plugins "upgrade to new upstream version 0.7.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415680
<directhex> stochastic, the second one, i'd say yes. the first one it looks like there's still ongoing discussion with dholbach
<stochastic> directhex, okay thanks for clarification
<directhex> i'll test-build tap-plugins
<dholbach> I didn't assign denemo to myself, so if you want to go ahead and grab it, just do it
<juanje> dholbach: Hi :-)
<juanje> dholbach: Do you mind to check the changes to the package we are reviewing the other day? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/nautilus-md5sum ;-)
<directhex> dholbach, nah, still needs looking over. i'll take care of tap-plugins since it looks like a simple upload
<directhex>   Uploading tap-plugins_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<stochastic> thanks directhex
<directhex> stochastic, ^^
<stochastic> directhex, ^^ ;P
<directhex> that's my good deed for the month. i think i need a lie down
<stochastic> dholbach I'd love to sort out any issues still left on the denemo bug, should you have the time.
<frandieguez> Hi to all, I have a question regarding the creation of deb packages. I'm making a virtual package for 32 and 64 bits platforms, but for 64 bits doesn't exist one package. Does exist a standarized method for solve this issue at debian/control file?
<directhex> frandieguez, is it a missing build-dep or a missing binary package?
<frandieguez> @directhex the main problem is that I have made a package for easy-installing of Chipmunk program
<frandieguez> The problem is that at 64 bits platforms the program doesn't work
<frandieguez> So, I can't do a package for chipmunk for 64 bits platform and the virtual package that has to include the chipmunk package isn't consistent
<directhex> if the app doesn't work on amd64, why make a package for it for amd64?
<frandieguez> @directhex let me explain. I have made a package that collects programs for my pupils like (gcc, gdb, netbeans.... and others), this packge is a virtual package that depends over the rest
<directhex> metapackage. a virtual package is something else
<directhex> probably your easiest option is to Recommend: the package which isn't on all arches
<directhex> recommends are pulled in when they can be
<frandieguez> @directhex additionally I have made a package for chipmunk program http://www.dcc.uchile.cl/~lmateu/CC41C/chipmunk.html
<frandieguez> @dorectjex good point!
<frandieguez> @directhex that works perfectly!
<directhex> stochastic, ftbfs on itanium
<stochastic> directhex, yes I see, but previous versions also ftbfs on itanium
<stochastic> so I assume it's an issue with the code, I will forward the log upstream
<directhex> please do
<slytherin> frandieguez: when defining dependencies you can specify architectures like this ' gcc [!amd64], netbeans [!sparc]'
<frandieguez> @slytherin with [!amd64] parameter you mean "install gcc package unless you are on amd64 platform", isn't it?
<slytherin> frandieguez: right.
<slytherin> in simply words, no dependency on gcc on amd64 platform
<frandieguez> thanks, this solution is more elegant
<slytherin> frandieguez: you can also specify multiple arch like this - [amd64 sparc] (only on amd64 or sparc) or [!amd64 !sparc] (all platforms other than amd64 or sparc).
<stochastic> can any motu with a spare minute take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/a2jmidid ?
<dholbach> juanje: done
<dholbach> stochastic: replied
<juanje> dholbach: :-)
<juanje> dholbach: Thanks :-)
<j^> anything that can/needs to be done to get oggvideotools accepted? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/oggvideotools
<juanje> dholbach: I agree with your comments. I've already changed the package and I did the upload again. There is something else we need to do to have the package accepted?
<dholbach> I'll take another look
<juanje> dholbach: thanks :-)
<dholbach> juanje: approved it, now you need a 2nd ACK
<stefanlsd> juanje: whats the url?
<juanje> dholbach: Thanks :-)
<juanje> stefanlsd: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/nautilus-md5sum
<logari81> what is the normal process for removing a part of an upstream tarball, just manually removing it from the orig.tar.gz? should the exclusion also be considered in a get-orig target or in the watch file?
<juanje> dholbach: thank you so much. I've learned a lot of datails to have a look with this package. I'll check the others I have in queue :-)
<dholbach> super :)
<slytherin> logari81: What do you mean by manually? It is preferred that get-orig-source will give you the correct .orig.tar.gz as it is supposed to go in distro. So yes you should handle removal there.
<juanje> dholbach: one question about your last comment
<dholbach> fire away
<juanje> dholbach: the Standards-Version is not the debian-policy version?
<juanje> the package's version I mead
<dholbach> it is
<juanje> I mean
<logari81> slytherin: ok, I am trying to find an example package corresponding to such a case, just to be sure
<dholbach> seems we have debian-policy and lintian out of sync :)
<juanje> dholbach:  I just checked with rmadison and told me there is 3.8.2.0
<slytherin> I believe there is already 3.8.3 of policy
<juanje> in karmic
<juanje> ops
<juanje> dholbach: so then I should put 3.8.2 or 3.8.3 for karmic?
<dholbach> just leave it
<dholbach> like it is
<juanje> ok
<juanje> dholbach: but for the other packages? just to know the good one
<dholbach> I hope somebody will sync/merge debian-policy
<dholbach> then we should be good again
<juanje> me too :-P
<juanje> :-)
<juanje> Could anyone review this package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mount-systray ?
<juanje> thanks
<juanje> :-)
<slytherin> juanje: usually Friday is the day when you can go announcing about your packages on REVU.
<juanje> slytherin: ohhh... I didn't know. I'm sorry. I've announced my packages here sometimes but nobody say nothing, I guess that was because I did the worng day... I didn't know it was a special day for that. I'm sorry
<stochastic> dholbach, replied/fixed issues on Bug #325004
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 325004 in denemo "Upgrade denemo package from 0.7.7 to 0.8.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/325004
<dholbach> stochastic: I'll take a look when I get back from lunch
<dholbach> maybe somebody else has the time to check it beforehand?
<stochastic> dholbach, I'm not in that big of rush, I'm off to bed now (but I'm worried about feature freeze so don't forget about it please :)
<dholbach> alright :)
<dholbach> sleep tight
<iulian> Oh look, it's dholbach!
<slytherin> juanje: no need to be sorry for that. :-)
<jbernard__> iulian: thanks for the lua-iconv upload, I really apprecite it
<iulian> jbernard__: Don't mention it. :)
<dholbach> nxvl, nhandler, james_w: do we need to reschedule tomorrow's Packaging Training session too?
<james_w> reschedule?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<james_w> I don't see one scheduled?
<dholbach> there was one
<dholbach> DktrKranz'
<DktrKranz> yes, but I can't host it, I'll travel tomorrow
<dholbach> ok
<DktrKranz> sorry for the short notice, but it has been a surprise for myself too
<dholbach> no worries Luca
<dholbach> who of any of the release teams would like to talk a bit about freezes, release schedule and stuff?
<dholbach> 18:00 UTC
<dholbach> I can't because I'll be in the ubuntu global jam meeting at the same time
<dholbach> any other packaging related topic will do too
<Sam-I-Am> howdy
<Sam-I-Am> wandered over here from #ubuntu-server with some packaging questions...
<Sam-I-Am> when building a package from source, what determines which files get copied from the original source tree into debian/build ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<maxb> Sam-I-Am: Fundamentally, it's whatever files get copied by the execution of debian/rules targets
<maxb> Often debian/rules will delegate to debhelper dh_* commands for most of that
<Sam-I-Am> yeah...
<Sam-I-Am> so openldap copies most of its tree into debian/build... except 'contrib'
<Sam-I-Am> stuff is getting built in contrib... just back in the main source tree which is a problem
<Sam-I-Am> trying to move that into debian/build
<maxb> Hrm... "debian/build" ? What is that?
<maxb> The usual directories are debian/tmp and debian/$(BINARY_PACKAGE_NAME)
<Sam-I-Am> the directory which gets the openldap source for building
<Sam-I-Am> at least with openldap
<maxb> Hrm. Quirky buildsystem
<Sam-I-Am> y.. yeah
<Sam-I-Am> i dont think i'm about to change that part :)
<Sam-I-Am> maxb: i'm still not sure how its copying those files
<Sam-I-Am> its not obvious to me
<logari81> how should I interpret the two licenses contained in the following header:
<logari81> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/255767/
<logari81> are they combined with an OR or with an AND condition?
<jtimberman> Can a second MOTU advocate take a look at CodeRay, trying to get it in for Karmic. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/coderay
<Ampelbein> jtimberman: i'll have a look
<jtimberman> Thanks!
<Ampelbein> jtimberman: uploaded.
<jtimberman> Awesome!
<pochu>                                They both like KDE, they both work
<pochu> for Canonical, they both like Karaoke and they just started
<pochu> a Country band.
<pochu> One of the above is not true.
<pochu> heh
<logari81> I am packaging a library (getfem) which in its orig.tar.gz contains the sources of another library (superlu) in a separate directory. I ve realized though, that superlu exists in ubuntu as a standalone package. I am wondering if I can/should delete the superlu folder from the original tarball. Since the superlu version provided with getfem partly suffers from missing copyright headers it would be nice if I could get rid of it.
<logari81> I ve tried to find a similar case looking for *-dfsg source packages but I couldn't find a similar example
<fabrice_sp> bddebian, in case you didn't noticed: I'v just uploaded again aptoncd. It should be ok this time :-)
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: Uploaded, thanks!
<fabrice_sp> really?
<fabrice_sp> thanks a lot bddebian !
<fabrice_sp> you're my hero! :-)
<bddebian> No, thank YOU :)
<fabrice_sp> by the way, how can I take over the actual maintainer? Asking him to orphan the package, or through Debian Bug #484637 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 484637 in aptoncd "aptoncd: should this package be removed?" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/484637
<bddebian> fabrice_sp: If he is OK with you taking it over, it's just a matter of changing yourself to the maintainer and noting it in debian/changelog.  You could probably close #484637 with that changelog entry too if you wanted.
<geser> fabrice_sp: ask in #debian-devel on OFTC, they should know better their processes than us :)
<fabrice_sp> geser, you're right. Sorry about that 'debian' noise :-)
 * DktrKranz cheers bddebian, our brave ftp-assistant!
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ping
<bddebian> heh
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hey
<jtimberman> mathiaz: saw your comments on merb.. for the rules file, can those items be handled in the next release? as is the rules bundles the packages just fine. I can add the readme.source of course.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: did you try to remove all the rules from the file?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: to me it seems that all the code in the rules file is pretty much a cut'n paste from the pkg-ruby-rb cdbs class
<jtimberman> mathiaz: per suggestion from one of the debian-ruby-extras folks i copied an existing package (couldn't say off hand at this point which one :))
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - it doesn't seem trivial
<mathiaz> jtimberman: so we can defer it to a later release
<jtimberman> great
<jtimberman> I'll upload w/ the README.source added
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great. thanks
<jtimberman> mathiaz: should be uploaded in a moment
<mathiaz> jtimberman: is it normal that merb requires rails?
<jtimberman> No.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: when installing one of merb package rails gets pulled in
<jtimberman> Really??
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yop
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255899/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: but it's not  problem with the merb packaging
<jtimberman> Hmm.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it's probably one of its dependency that recommends rails
<jtimberman> Yeah.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and recommends are installed by default
<mathiaz> jtimberman: this can be fixed post-FeatureFreeze
<jtimberman> what packages did you specify to install?
<jtimberman> 'merb'?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255900/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^ one of this package is probably recommending rails
<mathiaz> jtimberman: merb-core and merb-slices
<jtimberman> ok
<jtimberman> http://paste.ubuntu.com/255903/
<jtimberman> mathiaz: and http://paste.ubuntu.com/255904/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - interesting
<jtimberman> yeah what is a 'ruby 4.2' ?!
<jtimberman> thats bizarre, that looks like a binary program package, but its a completely different version than 'ruby'
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255906/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/ruby
<mathiaz> jtimberman: This package is a dependency package, which depends on Debian's default Ruby version (currently 1.8.x).
<jtimberman> Indeed. Weird that the version is 4.2.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yeah - it's just that the numbering scheme isn't related to the actual version of ruby it depends on
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it basically is a meta-package
<jtimberman> yeah. So this rails...
<mathiaz> jtimberman: so what's left now is stompserver and chef
<mathiaz> jtimberman: we'll look at the rails depency later - first focus on getting all the package in the archive in time for FeatureFreeze
<jtimberman> Yes.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: sounds good to me :)
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, I'm fixing openturns for bug #411189. Should I subscribe u-u-s, or you will take care of my debdiff?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411189 in openturns "Please remove boost1.35 source and all binaries from Karmic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411189
<fabrice_sp> i've subscribed u-u-s. Have to go now. Bye
<ScottK> Good.
 * ScottK is on vacation right now.
<stochastic> if a script is licensed under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ would that be able to be included in the repositories?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: got stompserver updated
<james_w> stochastic: yes, though it's not a great code license
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great - I went through a first review of chef
<jtimberman> mathiaz: going through it now, thanks :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: stompserver looks much better now
<jtimberman> mathiaz: :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: thanks for sorting out the options with absolute path
<mathiaz> jtimberman: one last important bit is to use the upstream tarball
<jtimberman> Yeah, only trouble was determining the most elegant consistent way to do that.
<jtimberman> it should be in there?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: there isn't any diff.gz file
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/stompserver
<mathiaz> jtimberman: the only files are stompserver_0.9.9-0ubuntu1.tar.gz and the .dsc
<mathiaz> jtimberman: what should be available is a .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz and .dsc
<jtimberman> ooh... orig.tar.gz, not orig.tgz?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: what you need is stompserver_0.9.9.orig.tar.gz (which is the upstream tarball)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/31579/stompserver-0.9.9.tgz.
<jtimberman> yeah, i have stompserver_0.9.9.orig.tgz (not .tar.gz)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-20
<jtimberman> there:   Uploading stompserver_0.9.9.orig.tar.gz: done.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great - thanks
<DktrKranz> kirkland: re bug 415771, I can confirm package can be overwritten. It's in sync with Debian except for some little adjustments available in Debian version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415771 in solang "Sync solang 0.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415771
<kirkland> DktrKranz: cheers, thanks, drop a note in that bug, and i'll sync -f now
<DktrKranz> done, thanks ;)
<kirkland> DktrKranz: done ;-)
 * DktrKranz hugs kirkland 
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - the patches fail to apply on stompserver: http://paste.ubuntu.com/256002/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you may need to refresh the patches according to the series
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and is the etcdir patch still necessary now that the fhs patch is there?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: or could both be combined?
<jtimberman> i'll combine
<jtimberman> and make just fhs patch
<jtimberman> mathiaz: added comments to chef, will upload in a moment.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ok - thanks.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: stompserver updated
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you've left stompserver-0.9.9/debian/.pc/.version
<mathiaz> jtimberman: in the latest stompserver upload
<jtimberman> bah!
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and debian/patches/add_etcdir.patch
<mathiaz> jtimberman: even though it has been removed from the series file
<jtimberman> fixed
<jtimberman> uploading
<jtimberman> mm
<jtimberman>   Uploading stompserver_0.9.9-0ubuntu1.dsc: 553 Could not create file.
<jtimberman> ah. waiting a few minutes
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - it may take some time on the REVU side to clean things up
<jtimberman> ya
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I've fixed it in my local tree
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and keep doing the review
<jtimberman> :D
<mathiaz> jtimberman: the reason for also uploading to REVU is for the other reviewer
<mathiaz> jtimberman: who would also get the dsc, diff.gz and tar.gz files from REVU
<mathiaz> jtimberman: (and not my local tree)
<jtimberman> Yeah.
<jtimberman> reuploaded stompserver, should have the .pc dir and the etcdir patch gone.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: left another bunch of comments
<jtimberman> pedantic is right, removing that path :)
<james_w> it should contain a copy of the LGPL to comply with the license
<mathiaz> jtimberman: actually - it's a lintian at level Warning  (the line starts with W)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: so that should definetly be fixed before an upload to the archive
<mathiaz> jtimberman: pedantic lintian messages are prefixed with a P
<jtimberman> mathiaz: yeah i removed the aboslute paths
<jtimberman> okay, stompserver updated.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: trying to install the package leads to this error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/256011/
<jtimberman> ah
<jtimberman> stompserver creates the paths specified in the config file.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: that's probably due to the fact that the daemon is running under a unpriviled account
<jtimberman> but runs as the user
<jtimberman> ya
<jtimberman> what is the preferred way to create the directories?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: what's the use of etcdir?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: AFAICT it's only used for qstore=StompServer::ActiveRecordQueue.new(@opts[:etcdir], @opts[:storage])
<jtimberman> mathiaz: not sure, we use stompserver with storage in memory.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/256015/
<jtimberman> mathiaz: removing from the config file. whats the preferrred way to handle creation and ownership of /var/log/stompserver and /var/lib/stompserver? preinst?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: that's the usage of etcdir
<jtimberman> mathiaz: yeah looks like for running a queue in a rails app or something.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it expects a database.yml
<jtimberman> if its used.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: set ownership of /var/{lib,log}/stompserver/ in the postinst script
<mathiaz> jtimberman: as the directories are part of the package (via the dir file)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: they will be created when the package is installed
<jtimberman> ok
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ownership and permission should be set in the postinst script
<jtimberman> a la http://paste.ubuntu.com/256018/?
<jtimberman> er, http://paste.ubuntu.com/256018/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you don't need to mkdir the directories
<mathiaz> jtimberman: they're part of the package and will be created by dpkg during the installation
<jtimberman> o
<mathiaz> jtimberman: however the ownership and permissions need to be set
<jtimberman> so just the chown line
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I've found a bug in http://paste.ubuntu.com/256015/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<mathiaz> jtimberman: storagedir is not used at all in the initialize function
<mathiaz> jtimberman: #{configdir}/stompserver_development should be #{storagedir}/stompserver_development
<jtimberman> I'll file a bug upstream
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and if you could fix the bug in the package too that would be great.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: other wise stompserver is going to store data in /etc/stompserver/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: which is not something we wanna encourage
<jtimberman> yeah and that's not fhs
 * mathiaz nods
<mathiaz> jtimberman: note that this bug is properly introduced by the fhs patch.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm well may be not.
<jtimberman> i added a patch for it
<jtimberman> uploaded
<mathiaz> james_w: the LGPL license is mentioned in the copyright file because the setup.rb script is under LGPL
<mathiaz> james_w: however all the upstream code is under MIT
<mathiaz> james_w: which is listed in the README.txt in the upstream tarball
<jtimberman> mathiaz: oops, fixed missing descriptoin in that patch, also uploaded chef.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - and you've also left the change in lib/stomp_server/queue/activerecord_queue.rb
<mathiaz> jtimberman: $ lsdiff -z stompserver_0.9.9-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<mathiaz> jtimberman: lists stompserver-0.9.9/lib/stomp_server/queue/activerecord_queue.rb
<jtimberman> quilt refresh ; quilt applied ?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - the clean target should take care of that unapplying all the quilt patch
<mathiaz> jtimberman: etcdir was also remove from debian/stompserver.conf
<mathiaz> jtimberman: why?
<jtimberman> might have had wrong config file open in my edit window
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I still think etcdir is needed in the stompserver.conf file
<mathiaz> jtimberman: however that means that /etc/stompserver/ needs to be added to the dirs file
<jtimberman> it should be in dirs then, and added to postinst for chown
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and ownership set correctly in posting
<jtimberman> can that be chowned stompserver?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<mathiaz> jtimberman: all of the directories should be create and have correct ownership before the stompserver is started
<mathiaz> jtimberman: since all of the code to do so is placed before the #DEBHELPER# token
<jtimberman> interesting.
<jtimberman> magic
<mathiaz> jtimberman: which is where the init script start call is put by dh_installinit
<jtimberman> not sure why that activerecord file is getting in
<jtimberman> clean wipe and recreate works :)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: uploaded stompserver again, gotta run for a couple hours.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: sure - np.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: thanks for your help!
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ze IntraWebs will be around for some more time
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you're welcome !:)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: oh, can you look at the chef package now?
<jtimberman> should have all the copyright stuff in etc.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yop - looking at it.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I'll leave my comments (if any) there.
<jtimberman> great, thanks!
<binarymutant> does 'bzr branch lp:ubotutn' just work in Ubuntu or does it work with all bzr?
<Ampelbein> binarymutant: works at least in debian/unstable, too.
<binarymutant> ty Ampelbein :D
<pochu> anybody around running jaunty + gnome?
<pochu> nevermind
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hey dholbach!
<dholbach> heya fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> dholbach, about bug #414561 and the FTBFS. It has to be synced after #414558. I've just updated the bug report.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414561 in ubuntu "Sync plexus-bsh-factory 1.0~alpha7-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (after #414558)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414561
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: does it need a depends or build-depends or something then?
<fabrice_sp> there is already a build-depends. It's only that the version is not in the build-depend
<dholbach> ah, I see
<dholbach> ok, thanks
<fabrice_sp> also according to ttx, it's better not to try to fix any maven package it in Ubuntu: it's a moving target in unstable actually
<dholbach> ping me once the sync and binary-new-ing has happened
<fabrice_sp> yw :-)
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> so, some volunteer to sponsor bug #414558 ? :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414558 in plexus-container-default "Sync plexus-container-default 1.0-alpha-9-stable-1-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (after #412352)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414558
<dholbach> Daniel Holbach  wrote 30 minutes ago:
<dholbach> ACKed.
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: ^
<dholbach> you're a bit late to the party :)
<fabrice_sp> ah coool :-)
<fabrice_sp> I know :-) My email has some lag ;-)
<fabrice_sp> you're right: I missed that email. Thanks! :-)
<dholbach> no worries
<stochastic> Is there any way to find all the packages in the repos that contain a particular filetype (similar to 'dpkg -s .file' but that only works on installed packages) ?
<wgrant> stochastic: Try apt-file.
<slytherin> Has anyone tried voice and video in pidgin already? :-D
<blackmoon> hi, how can i check if a config file already exist when a deb package is installed? (and show to user: take old version, install new version or show differences) there is a specific way or i must do it with a bash script?
<sistpoty|work> blackmoon: if it's marked as a conffile, dpkg will already do that for you. By default, everything under /etc is marked as a conffile
<blackmoon> sistpoty|work: the config file are under /etc, so i don't do nothing, right?
<ghostcube> hi
<binarymutant> I'm having problems with sourceforge in my watchfile, right now I'm using "http://sf.net/{project name}/{filename}-(.*)\.tar\.gz". It was working all year without problems, but what's up with it now?
<pochu> binarymutant: it uses a redirection in Debian, maybe that's down?
<pochu> btw your syntax seems correct according to uscan(1)
<binarymutant> pochu, so I should just give it awhile for the redirect to come back up?
<pochu> binarymutant: maybe :)
<binarymutant> thanks for the input pochu
<pochu> yw
<sistpoty|work> blackmoon: yep
<Laney> it's a known problem with the sf redirector
<Laney> binarymutant: ^
<blackmoon> sistpoty|work: ok, thank you
<Laney> try #debian-qa
<sistpoty|work> np
<binarymutant> Laney, ty
<directhex> which is why i just use mirrorservice.com for SF
<binarymutant>  /me checks it out
<slytherin> binarymutant: by the way you can improve the syntax to ([\d\.]+).tar.gz to only detect release versions i.e. skip the tarball with beta, rc in name :-)
<binarymutant> slytherin, thankfully upstream doesn't ever do that, but if it becomes an issue I'll change the regex
<pochu> ember_: you're in Debian NEW! :)
<Laney> Bah
<Laney> I hate it when differences between buildds and sbuild/pbuilder crop up
<juli__> Hello! Could somebody advise me where I can read about "Section" filed in control file. I mean which Section  (java, libs, etc.) I should choose in different cases. Thanks in advance.
<james_w> hi juli__, I'm not aware of a location for that unfortunately
<c_korn> juli__: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<directhex> was about to say, debian policy
<james_w> but that doesn't say why you should choose
<directhex> james_w, you guess, get it wrong, and ftpmaster overrides it to what THEY think it should be
<Laney> try this http://packages.debian.org/unstable/
<directhex> in special cases they'll even invent a new section for you without consulting you
<james_w> that's not particularly constructive
<Laney> that's the best I know of
<james_w> juli__: if you pastebin your debian/control then we can try and give some advice
<james_w> sorry Laney, I didn't mean you
<Laney> juli__: ^ that was to you, sorry
<Laney> james_w: I know :)
<sistpoty|work> maybe that has some hints about sections: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/03/msg00010.html
<james_w> yeah, good point
<james_w> if it's libsomething-java then ftpmaster feels it should probably be in java
<Laney> pick the most specific section you can
<Laney> I think is a good rule
<juli__> james_w, thanks! I just though there is more clear explanation then debian-policy. I'm  updating libnb-javaparser-java and just curious which section it should belong. May be "java" is better for this package.
<Laney> "Everything about Java", seems good
<directhex> sections are such a broken concept
<Laney> debtags 4eva
<james_w> yeah, sounds like java is the best bet for that package
<juli__> hm.. ok. But is there any difference between Section for source package and for Section for binary packages?
<ttx> asac: about bug 416387... easymock doesn't compile with gcj-jdk. Setting it to default-jdk would break in Debian, so creates a unmergeable delta (until they switch default-jdk there) so I guess in this precise case it makes sense to keep forcing openjdk-6-jdk ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416387 in easymock "easymock should use default-jdk as build dependency" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416387
<directhex> Laney, exactly. how useful is a "java" section? why no "c++" section? consistency is in short supply
 * Laney shrugs
<james_w> juli__: they can be separate sections if needed
<Laney> just do what the boss wants you to do
<james_w> juli__: e.g. if it builds a -doc package as well, then the source and the main binary would be "java" and the -doc package "doc"
<juli__> Laney, the boss?
<Laney> ftpmaster
<sistpoty|work> directhex: don't complain, you already got your mono section :P
<asac> ttx: yes. please drop the comment in the bug and i set it to wont fix to reflect that its ok
<ttx> asac: sure. Thanks for your help, btw :)
<asac> ttx: if you disagree on other bugs let me know
<directhex> sistpoty|work, we didn't *want* it! especially not with a mono-specific name, given the work that goes into allowing you to use any cli framework (which, yes, we only have mono packaged right now, but it's like having an "openjdk" section)
<slytherin> ttx: debian has already switched default-jdk
<ttx> slytherin: ah-ah.
<ttx> slytherin: since when ?
<juli__> james_w, Laney Thank you!
<sistpoty|work> directhex: tststs, there you get s.th. special and then aren't even grateful :P
<slytherin> ttx: been about three weeks. Both unstable and testing have default-jdk pointing to openjdk on most arch.
<ttx> slytherin: cool !
<ttx> will fix that bug, then.
<asac> ttx: ok ... so we can do that now?
<asac> great.
<asac> ttx: maybe drop the argument in the bug ;)
<asac> (why its in fact ok to keep it ;))
<asac> ttx: also if there are questions, ping me explicitly. i am bad at reading my bugmail
<slytherin> ttx: will you have some time over weekend for a package review? I am working on something and should have package ready by Sunday.
<ttx> slytherin: I won't promise anything. It's pre-FF madness already here. But yes, ping me about it.
<slytherin> thanks. :_)
<dholbach> nhandler: james_w was thinking we could do another on-call review session in the packaging training world - unfortunately I can't attend, I have the global jam meeting at the same time
<RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, heya there!! Please don't forget to review lekhonee when you have some free time :)
<DktrKranz> RoAkSoAx: I gave it a go some days ago, did you upload a new version?
<RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, oh no. I just noticed that you commented on it, I havent been around the past few days, sorry :) I'll take a look at it. thanks
<DktrKranz> RoAkSoAx: no hurry, I'm out for work today, so I can't have a look at it until tomorrow/weekend
<RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, ok :) I'll ping you when ready. Thanks
<mcnicholls> Just been looking at the netplug ftbfs and found it's quite simple to fix, but the package is patchless. Am i best emailing the Debian maintainer explaining the fix and seeing if he can release a new version or should i try to add a patch system to the Ubuntu package?
<Laney> mcnicholls: Please submit your patch to both Debian and Ubuntu, but don't add a patchsys
<Laney> If the Debian maintainer fixes it quickly then you can request a sync, so it might be worth leaving it for a few days in the BTS to see
<mcnicholls> Laney: BTS? would i be best just submitting a diff to a bug report on launchpad to submit it to Ubuntu? Not sure how i submit to debian.
<thom> hey guys; i have motu on launchpad, how do i get revu to acknowledge that? (account name is thombot, for reasons best known to the sabdfl way, way back when)
<Laney> mcnicholls: reportbug -B debian
<Laney> thom: you need a REVU admin
<Laney> (no, I don't know)
<jtimberman> Any MOTU around able to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/merb for upload?
<mcnicholls> Laney: cheers, think i am best filing it with Debian and checking my patch is ok, can then see how long before they rebuild to see if it needs patching in Ubuntu or jsut a sync
<Laney> yes
<mcnicholls> s/jsut/just
<Laney> FTBFS bugs are RC so if the maintainer is unresponsive then you can get it uploaded to Debian anyway
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Laney> hi hi
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Laney, sistpoty|work
<mcnicholls> RC?
<geser> Release Critical
<mcnicholls> oh release critical
<mcnicholls> ;-)
<mcnicholls> only other thing is it ftbfs because of not checking the return value from write, but i guess this isn't a priority for them in Debian? Although sticking to the above course of action is still appropriate?
<sistpoty|work> thom: done
<Laney> if it doesn't ftbfs in Debian then it's not RC there
<mcnicholls> no, but i should still file a bug there or just fix it for Ubuntu?
<Laney> sure, go ahead
<Laney> but I wouldn't expect the maintainer to prioritise an upload for it
<mcnicholls> no, so the most likely outcome is that it will be fixed in Debian eventually, but i may need to fix it in Ubuntu until that fix is uploaded to Debian and synced down.
<Laney> sounds right
<iulian> Hey bddebian.
<mcnicholls> ok thanks for that. will have a got at submitting it to Debian.
<thom> sistpoty|work: tyvm :)
<sistpoty|work> np ;)
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<mcnicholls> should diff's submitted as patches be created from something like diff -rcu source-orig source-modified > patch.diff
<mcnicholls> should diff's submitted as patches be created from something like diff -rcu source-orig source-modified
<mcnicholls> opps sorry about that. only meant it once.
<mcnicholls> just want to include my diff on the Debian bug report, but want to make sure it is in a useful format
<mcnicholls> hmmmm i suspect maybe -ru is what i am after.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: stompserver should be good to go now. lintian clean on built and source package, installs and purges cleanly, and of course the service starts properly :)
<dholbach> mcnicholls: you could try debdiff - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I've seen the uploads - reviewing it now
<dholbach> mcnicholls: ... if you're not diffing across new upstream versions (in that case you'd end up with the upstream changes in the diff also)
<dholbach> mcnicholls:     diff -ruN project-{oldversion,newversion}/debian    maybe?
<dholbach> as usual: there's more than one way :)
<Laney> debdiff | filterdiff is useful I find
<mcnicholls> cheers guys. in the end i went for diff -ru oldversion newversion but it was just for one file anyway, just so i could illustrate the changes in the source as a suggested patch.
<mcnicholls> not used filterdiff before, used to filter out certain files from a diff?
<Laney> out or in, your choice
<mcnicholls> so in the event that i do submit a bug and patch to Ubuntu (because the Debian upload will not be for a while) is it useful for me to link the Ubuntu bug to the Debian one?
<Laney> the other way round
<mcnicholls> I would somehow use the Debian bug tracker to link that bug to the one in Ubuntu?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: thanks :D
<gilir> persia: when you will be around, please add me to the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team
<persia> gilir, Done.  Welcome.
<gilir> persia: thanks :)
<micahg> nmap warnings aren't SRU worthy are they?
<c_korn> can I tell dh_install to dereference links? so if there is a libfoo.so in the source tree which links to out/libs/libfoo.so I just enter libfoo.so in the install file and actually get the file in out/libs instead of the link ?
<EagleScreen> hello
<EagleScreen> is it useful if I sync requested packages to my ppa?
<prefrontal_> Coin3D Systems in Motion has switched away from using the package SoQt. they developed new software called Quarter to replace it: http://www.coin3d.org/lib/quarter
<prefrontal_> SoQt is in the repositories but Quarter is not, even though SoQt is deprecated. SoQt hasn't been touched in 2 years, Quarter is undergoing active development
<prefrontal_> unfortunately this means I cannot put our software into the universe unless I also package Quarter. but it seems like Quarter would be something the motus would want to bring into the fold..
<prefrontal_> thoughts?
<EagleScreen> hi
<EagleScreen> I want to make  a sync of a newer Debian version of a package that there is already in Ubuntu, how must I proceed?
<EagleScreen> what must I do with the changelog?
<c_korn> EagleScreen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<EagleScreen> i mean make the sync myself, not requesting a sync
<EagleScreen> i am learning uubntu packaging
<EagleScreen> is there any programm that makes the syncs automatically, or are syncs made by developpers by hand?
<joaopinto> EagleScreen, have you read the wiki :) ?
<EagleScreen> this wiki?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<joaopinto> yes
<EagleScreen> yes
<EagleScreen> it is for requesting a sync
<joaopinto> so you missed the part where it refers who performs the sync
<sebner> EagleScreen: contributors *must* file sync requests, MOTUs have to ACKnowledge them and then an archive-admin processes the sync by hand
<joaopinto> "Ubuntu developers should subscribe (NOT assign) the ubuntu-archive team to the bug directly. This team will process the request and close the bug when it is complete. Please only subscribe ubuntu-archive to a bug once you have a clear action for the archive team to perform. Do not ask ubuntu-archive to help you decide what to do. "
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> when is pidgin 2.6.1 going to be available under Ubuntu Hardy ?
<kaushal> http://pidgin.im/download/
<EagleScreen> yes, but i don't want to request any sync by the moment, because it is already requested, i am interested in technical packaking methods for syncing
<kaushal> EagleScreen, are you referring to me ?
<EagleScreen> not kaushal, but i am interested in learning and practice packaging, i may do a backport package fot pidgin 2.6.1
<kaushal> great
<fabrice_sp> kaushal, it has to go first in karmic
<sebner> EagleScreen: there is nothing to do regarding packaging when requesting a sync, maybe testbuilding but you don't do anything with the source package from debian
<kaushal> whats the next version of karmic
<kaushal> I mean next release of ubuntu after karmic
<dholbach> Ubuntu Global Jam meeting in 30m in #ubuntu-meeting
<kaushal> I believe its not yet released to public by Mark Shuttleworth
<fabrice_sp> kaushal, it has to go first in Debian, anyway (debian has 2.5.9)
<EagleScreen> negative it is not public yet
<EagleScreen> sebner: then how is a sync made?
<kaushal> fabrice_sp, ok
<EagleScreen> dveloppers who make syncs don't use Debian source package?
<fabrice_sp> EagleScreen, sync is perfomr by archive admin
<fabrice_sp> EagleScreen, if you want to practice some packaging, you can do a merge or fix a FTBFS
<EagleScreen> I dont know if you are understanding me, i want to be a MOTU developper in the future, i am getting started in Debian/Ubuntu packaging, and i need to learn to do things, for instance, to sync packages from Debian, I can start by practice syncs from Debian to me ppa
<jtimberman> EagleScreen: MOTU don't sync packages from Debian.
<fabrice_sp> you will learn a lot more fixing bugs (FTBFS, for example), than just syncing (fdonwloading/uploading)
<EagleScreen> who sync packages that goes in universe?
<fabrice_sp> a sync a just a downlaod and an upload
<jtimberman> EagleScreen: Archive admins.
<fabrice_sp> EagleScreen, Archive admin, as I told you before
<EagleScreen> yeah
<EagleScreen> okay
<jtimberman> One more advocate needed for stompserver - anyone available to review? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/stompserver
<jtimberman> mathiaz: i'm going to update chef with some of the things we've worked through on stompserver.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: great - I'll wait for a new upload of chef then
<EagleScreen> i already have made debdiffs fixing small bugs in packages, what is the next step?
<porthose> EagleScreen, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<jtimberman> mathiaz: uploading now, looks like just logrotate, as we're not creating a user.
<fabrice_sp> !packaging | fabrice_sp
<ubottu> fabrice_sp, please see my private message
 * hyperair grumbles about codelite being problematic
<mathiaz> jtimberman: reviewing chef - the clean target doesn't work as expected: InstalledFiles and .config are left in the source tree
<mathiaz> jtimberman: regarding ttx T1 remark: even though the dh-make template script is wrong (return 1) the chef init scripts could still return the correct value
<mathiaz> jtimberman: logging a bug against dh-make would be helpful in addition
<jtimberman> mathiaz: how do i test the clean target? run dh_clean from the source tree?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: debclean
<jtimberman> ah
<jtimberman> hurm, clean target does rm -f $(DEB_SRCDIR)/.config and $(DEB_SRCDIR)/InstalledFiles...
<Zhenech> hyperair, accepted!
<mathiaz> kirkland: when you run licensecheck and see a bunch of file with "*No copyright* UNKNOWN", what do yo do?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: what creates InstalledFiles and .config?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I guess the setup.rb file
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I'm not familiar enough with the ruby setup infrastructure.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it may have been transient
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I'm almost finished with another round of comments
<jtimberman> mathiaz: on chef? or something lese?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: chef
<jtimberman> :)
<jtimberman> Thanks
<mathiaz> jtimberman: just before next upload check that the diff.gz has only files in debian/.
<jtimberman> yeah
<mzz> I've had lintian yell at me because of that, although I'm not sure if it only does it if it notices a "proper" patch system is also in use
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - while trying to install chef chef-server chef-indexer chef-server-slice I get xulrunner-1.9 pulled in
<mathiaz> jtimberman: that's probably an issue in one of the dependency though
<jtimberman> Yeah..
<jtimberman> because we sure don't need it for chef.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and rails gets pulled in as well
<jtimberman> oohh.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: chef-server requires couchdb, which requires erlang, which has a tcl/tk gui.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: just out of curiosity why use stompserver for the messaging component?
<jtimberman> so a bunch of X stuff gets installed.
<hyperair> Zhenech: !!
<jtimberman> mathiaz: thats what it was written with originally. version 0.8.0 of chef is going to use something else.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: rabbitmq is another great solution
<hyperair> Zhenech: now, to sync it =D
<jtimberman> mathiaz: yup, and i believe that is what 0.8.0 uses.
<Zhenech> hyperair, prolly not for karmic :P
<mathiaz> jtimberman: cool.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: when is 0.8.0 scheduled for?
<hyperair> Zhenech: aw, why not? FF is 6 days away!
<jtimberman> mathiaz: not set schedule yet, but we have an alpha release branch in the source and are testing it internally.
<Zhenech> hyperair, huh? I thought debianfreeze was lang ago
<jtimberman> Zhenech: feature freeze, not import freeze.
<jtimberman> debian import freeze was a couple weeks ago. feature freeze is next Thursday
<Zhenech> hm ok
<hyperair> debian freeze is when autosyncs stop, isn't it? so this requires a manual sync request
<Zhenech> then sync me rott please :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: hi
<Zhenech> huhu bdrung_
<Zhenech> bdrung_, if you want anything sponsored, give it now, I leave for a week in 16hours :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: i have many packages. ;)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: but nothing with "colors" in it.
<bdrung_> Zhenech: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=esperanza
<Zhenech> bdrung_, ok :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=xmms2-scrobbler
<Zhenech> It appears like this package is not owned by you.
<Zhenech> meh
<bdrung_> Zhenech: not owned, but i am an uploader.
<bdrung_> Zhenech: i can give you a package that i own. :)
<Zhenech> nah I'm not able to see the package at all
<Zhenech> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=esperanza
<Zhenech> thats the link I need
<Zhenech> but xmms2 - no thanks :P
<bdrung_> Zhenech: do you have something against xmms2?
<hyperair> Zhenech: sync you rott?
<Zhenech> hyperair, the "rott" package would be nice to have updated in ubuntu
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> i see
<Zhenech> bdrung_, "nix wirksames" :P
<Zhenech> bdrung_, no nothing against it, just not using it and thus no real testcase here
<bdrung_> Zhenech: :D
<jtimberman> hurm, I have a chef-0.7.8/patches/remove_rubygems.patch is in the diff.gz, but also in debian/patches...
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you mean that remove_rubygems.patch is actually applied in the diff.gz?
<jtimberman> problem of not setting QUILT_PATCH directory?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: yea
<jtimberman> i think so
<mathiaz> jtimberman: try to unapply the patch manually in the src tree
<mathiaz> and rebuild the source package
<jtimberman> unapply w/ quilt?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<jtimberman> do i need to have the QUILT_PATCH variable set in my shell?
<jtimberman> er, QUILT_PATCHES.
<jtimberman> ah geez, yes.
<hyperair> mok0_: ping
<hyperair> mok0_: bugs #416555 and #415092 (codelite bugs which cropped up over the past few days)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416555 in codelite "codelite crashes on setting breakpoints" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415092 in codelite "[karmic] codelite can't find and doesn't provide libpluginu.so" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415092
<hyperair> it would be nice if you could upload the change that fixes both bugs for me. =)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: if you are not busy enough, then you could sponsor pwdhash, too. http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=pwdhash
<Zhenech> bdrung_, "not busy enough" does not exist in my language :P
<Zhenech> but I look
<bdrung_> Zhenech: "nicht ausgelastet genug" :)
<Zhenech> bdrung_, pwdhash_1.7.orig.tar.gz (md5sum does not match) ...
<bdrung_> Zhenech: or doesn't exists it in german?
<bdrung_> wtf?
<Zhenech> bdrung_, says dget compared to the orig in the archive
<jtimberman> argh.
<jtimberman> now all the patched files are in the diff.gz
<Zhenech> bdrung_, forgot --pristine-tar?
<bdrung_> Zhenech: debian/gbp.conf: pristine-tar = True
<Zhenech> hmmm
<Elbrus> what is the most proper way to rename files in the source? Upstream uses .po files with only to letters (limitations for Windows) while I want to use pt_BR. I thought a mv in config and in clean back... (conditionally)
<Zhenech> % md5sum pwdhash_1.7.orig.tar.gz*
<Zhenech> 4fdb294b53703803e8acb3e05960e5d3  pwdhash_1.7.orig.tar.gz
<Zhenech> b97d4abfeecdd9e972f118353b1fabff  pwdhash_1.7.orig.tar.gz.archive
<Zhenech> (.archive is the one in debian)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: yes, even the file size differs
<Zhenech> then fix it :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: done.
<bdrung_> Zhenech: same location, correct orig file now.
<Zhenech> yupp, sane now
<Zhenech> what was it?
<bdrung_> Zhenech: the version in debian and the pristine version differs
<bdrung_> Zhenech: the pristine version is the version released by upstream, the orig file in debian is a repack
<Zhenech> bdrung_, why repack?
<bdrung_> Zhenech: don't know. same content, different compression rate / timestamp.
<Zhenech> hmmm
<Zhenech> ok
<Zhenech> try to fix for next upstream version :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: yes. i maintain it since 1.7-2 in debian
<LLStarks> hi.
<LLStarks> libgtk1.2 needs to be packaged for karmic
<bdrung_> LLStarks: isn't it outdated?
<Zhenech> LLStarks, why?
<LLStarks> libjsw packages like jscalibrator rely on it.
<LLStarks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+1.2/+bug/416628
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 416628 in libjsw "jscalibrator needs libgtk1.2 but Karmic doesn't have the packages" [Undecided,New]
<LLStarks> then remove jscalibrator or configure it for libgtk2.0
<LLStarks> why is it in the repos if it can't be used?
<mok0_> hyperair, got you message from earlier, will take a look
<LLStarks> i technically could manually install libgtk1.2, but that's tedious
<bdrung_> LLStarks: you are right. either should someone make it libgtk2.0 compatible or it should be removed.
<ScottK> LLStarks: gtk1.2 has been removed because it's ancient and unsupportable.  It won't be added back.
<bdrung_> LLStarks: it probably depends on upstream.
<ScottK> bdrung_: That's correct.
<LLStarks> i have to install 3 libgtk1.2 packages otherwise.
<bdrung_> libgtk1.2 should be history. :)
<ScottK> LLStarks: That or stick with an LTS release like Hardy that still has it.
 * Elbrus going to bed...
<LLStarks> jaunty has it
<ScottK> That too.
<LLStarks> so, should i ask for a libgtk2.0 repackaging?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: heh, the log file is one of those weird merb things :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: could a symlink to /var/log/chef/ be added?
<Zhenech> bdrung_, Iceweasel could not install this item because "install.rdf" (provided by the item) is not well-formed or does not exist. Please contact the author about this problem.
<Zhenech> 3.5.2 that is
<jtimberman> mathiaz: nah, i fixed it by specifying the log file on the merb commandline
<jtimberman> the DAEMON_OPTS
<mathiaz> jtimberman: even better :)
<jtimberman> var/cache/chef on package removal, as in postrm scripts?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<jtimberman> ok
<mathiaz> jtimberman: under a remove) - not a  purge)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: found it.
<Zhenech> bdrung_, -2 works
<bdrung_> Zhenech: fix coming soon (with more testing)
<Zhenech> :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: done. now it installes without errors.
<bdrung_> same localtion as before
<Zhenech> ok
<Zhenech> what was the problem? :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: i have patches the install.rdf file and oversaw one point
<Zhenech> k
<jtimberman> mathiaz: new upload
<Zhenech> whats the purpose of the patch anyways?
<Zhenech> just removing :RDF everywhere?
<Zhenech> but yes, works now
<bdrung_> yes, removing :RDF.
<Zhenech> what for?
<bdrung_> the example extentions do not have the :RDF and with the :RDF mozilla-devscripts had problems parsing the file.
<bdrung_> i want to use ${xpi:Depends}
<Zhenech> ah, ok
<Zhenech> then, please add this to the changelog and the header of thepatch
<bdrung_> i implemented this feature together with asac
<Zhenech> then I'll upload
<Zhenech> *nitpick*
 * bdrung_ documents the patch.
<bdrung_> Zhenech: Remove :RDF from install.rdf for making it parsable by mozilla-devscripts.
<bdrung_> thats the text
<Zhenech> sounds ok
<bdrung_> Zhenech: done. debian/change update, too.
<Zhenech> bdrung_, thanks, fetching
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ah, nm that one fails to build.
<Zhenech> bdrung_, done
<bdrung_> Zhenech: thanks
<Zhenech> yw
<bdrung_> Zhenech: now there are only xmms2 related packages remaining
<Zhenech> bdrung_, "not-for-us" as buildds would say :P
<bdrung_> :(
<bdrung_> Zhenech: that means that i have to find someone else?
<Zhenech> bdrung_, prolly yes
<Zhenech> as said, I leave for a week of (hopefully) sunny spain
<Zhenech> maybe I have more time after the trip
<Zhenech> but I tend to sponsor only stuff I can use :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: i would like to find a sponsor sooner, because next week is feature freeze and these updates are needed.
<Zhenech> then bother -mentors :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: already done.
<bdrung_> Zhenech: CCed some people, who previously sponsored it / are maintainer.
<Zhenech> maybe bdefreese wants to do when hes online
<Zhenech> he loves cleanup :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: thanks. i will keep it in mind. in wich timezone do he live?
<Zhenech> US something
<porthose> bdrung_, I believe he is UTC -0500
<porthose> not sure though
<bdrung_> Zhenech: how long does it take till a package hits incoming?
<Zhenech> when I get the accepted mail iirc
<Laney> ScottK: geordi is uninstallable
<jtimberman> mathiaz: okay, fixed.
<whiteshep> Question for the group.  I recently switched from Windows to Ubuntu server.  Problem is in Windows when a program calls a directory of files it gives them alphabetical.  But under Ubuntu it gives the files in random order.  This random order messes up some gallery scripts and programs when it comes to sorting.  Aside from having to reprogram everything.  Is there a way to tell Ubuntu's file system (using ext3 atm) to give
<whiteshep>  programs who request files in alphabetical order?
<whiteshep> Hope that all got through?
<jtimberman> whiteshep: how are you getting the directory contents for your listing?
<jtimberman> hmm, though this may be more appropriate conversation on #ubuntu-server, rather than motu :)
<whiteshep> I'm getting them through a compiled program I have writen as well as gallery scripts users are using.
<whiteshep> Since the move the art files no longer come up in alphabetical order and users are complaining.  I was hoping there was like a tunefs option or perhaps a different file system that automaticly sorted files in alphabetical?
<joaopinto> whiteshep, the support channel is #ubuntu, not here :)
<whiteshep> Ah I'm sorry.  I'll keep looking.  Thanks anyways.
<jtimberman> so when a package in revu has two advocates, about how long until it is uploaded?
<jtimberman> when an archive admin gets to it?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you refering to merb?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: sure :)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: generally speaking though, since stompserver needs just another advocate, and hopefully chef will soon as well.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it depends - if there are two advocates it will get uploaded soon
<mathiaz> jtimberman: then an archive admin needs to accept it
<mathiaz> jtimberman: which can take some time these days :/
<jtimberman> :-o
<jtimberman> thanks :)
<ScottK> Laney: How so? (geordi)?
<Laney> ScottK: geordi (= 20090818T0046-0ubuntu1): FAILED geordi (= 20090818T0046-0ubuntu1) depends on missing: - libboost1.35-dev
<jtimberman> mathiaz: are you able to give chef another review?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: a bit later
<jtimberman> mathiaz: cool, thanks :)
<Zhenech> bdrung_, its in incoming now :)
<bdrung_> :)
<bdrung_> Zhenech: 3 new mails coming in my inbox
<Zhenech> bdrung_, oh and it says override disparity, could you take care of this?
<bdrung_> Zhenech: how?
<bdrung_> the package should be in optional
<Zhenech> bdrung_, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/08/msg00001.html
<Chase_> I'm developing an app that using QSslSocket through Qt, which itself is linked against openssl, and I want to release it under GPLv2
<Zhenech> bug against ftp.debian.org
<Chase_> I see in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright that there may be an issue with GPL and openssl linking, even indirectly
<bdrung_> Zhenech: with reportbug?
<Zhenech> Chase_, just say you allow it to link against openssl
<Chase_> is this really an issue since I'm only using openssl through qt?
<Zhenech> bdrung_, yes
<Zhenech> bdrung_, but see the link for correct subject etc
<Chase_> Zhenech: I can, but I'd prefer it to be as simple and basic gpl as possible
<Zhenech> Chase_, its not as long you add the openssl-excemption
<Zhenech> basic gpl is not linkable to openssl
<Chase_> Zhenech: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-21
<bdrung_> Zhenech: the subject would be "override: mozilla-pwdhash:web/optional"?
<Zhenech> seems so
<Zhenech> goin to bed now
<Zhenech> n8
<bdrung_> Zhenech: done
<bdrung_> Zhenech: gn8
<pochu> Ampelbein: nice work on seahorse :D
<Ampelbein> pochu: Well, since I cleaned up the bugs in ubuntu before, I figured I could go and see in the debian bugtracker what can be closed ;-)
<jtimberman> Any motu available to review (and advocate? :)) stompserver: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/stompserver
<hyperair> Zhenech: if you're still around, gaeny-plugins got built just before the new geany was released, and now needs a binNMU =\
<LLStarks> can an opinion on this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/synaptic/+bug/416267
<LLStarks> *i get an opinion
<Majost> Is packages.ubuntu.com down?
<binarymutant> yes on my end
<Majost> huh
<binarymutant> yes it's down
<Majost> just wanted to make sure it was a planned or know thing
<Majost> ;)
<Majost> known too
<dholbach> good morning
<lidaobing> dholbach, morning
<dholbach> hey lidaobing!
<lidaobing> dholbach, hello
<dholbach> how are you doing today?
<lidaobing> working
<lidaobing> it's afternoon here
<dholbach> so you had a good day so far? :)
<dholbach> hey noodles775!
<noodles775> Hiya dholbach :)
<lidaobing> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> great :)
<dholbach> lidaobing: how's ibus coming along? when do you think it can become the default? :-)
<lidaobing> sounds the MIR process has been finished for ibus
<dholbach> oh nice
<lidaobing> still some bug on ibus, but less bug than scim
<dholbach> so we get it all into main and by default for karmic?
<dholbach> what's going to happen to the scim world?
<lidaobing> I don't know whether it's default, freeflying should know it
<lidaobing> Suzhe on longer work on scim
<dholbach> we could probably ask Arne
<lidaobing> and no active maintainer on that project (but still live)
<dholbach> that's really exciting
<lidaobing> what's Arne working on?
<dholbach> he's been working on fonts and to some degree on input methods
<dholbach> it really sounds like you guys should be in touch :)
<dholbach> he's ArneGoetje on #ubuntu-devel
<lidaobing> dholbach, good
<dholbach> can you join  #ubuntu-devel ?
<dholbach> lidaobing: ^
<highvoltage> anyone else having trouble reaching http://packages.ubuntu.com?
<Zhenech> yes
<jtimberman> highvoltage: it was down earlier.
<Zhenech> hyperair, so what should I do? :)
<hyperair> Zhenech: request a binNMU... wait, is a DD's privileges required for this?
<Zhenech> hyperair, no, its maintainers task :)
<hyperair> alright, i'll do that then =)
<Zhenech> fine :)
<Zhenech> but where is new geany? i dont see any
<Zhenech> wait
<Zhenech> okok, I see it XD
<Zhenech> then
<Zhenech> you need a = dep in the plugins
<Zhenech> if that will break with every new geany upload
<hyperair> it shouldn't have broken =\
<hyperair> i'll go poke the upstream
<Zhenech> oke
<Zhenech> sudo make me a coffee
<Zhenech> *waits*
<garyvdm> Hi - I'm trying to dput to a launchpad ppa. It stops on the .orig.tar.gz:  on 467k/468k. I left it for 5 min, but it did not continue.  Here is pastebin of my console: http://paste.ubuntu.com/256786/
<garyvdm> Is there any thing I can try to get it to go?
 * garyvdm crossposts to #launchpad
<garyvdm> Hi - I'm trying to dput to a launchpad ppa. It stops on the .orig.tar.gz: on 467k/468k. I left it for 5 min, but it did not continue. Here is pastebin of my console: http://paste.ubuntu.com/256786/
<garyvdm> Is there any thing I can try to get it to go?
<lucas_> mmh, what's the current recommended procedures to requests syncs from debian?
<lifeless> lucas_: requestsync...
<lifeless> garyvdm: #launchpad perhaps
<lucas_> thanks
<lifeless> docs in the policy manual/wiki as usual
<noodles775> garyvdm: Apparently a few people have experience that same issue in the past, and it has usually been related to a router bug...
 * noodles775 looks for the bug.
<noodles775> garyvdm: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/251685
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251685 in soyuz "PPA upload hangs with 1K to go" [High,Triaged]
<noodles775> garyvdm: ah, so according to the bug there is also an issue on the lp server, but it's not yet clear what it is (nor is there a workaround in the bug :/ ).
<lucas_> mmh, isn't someone interested in packaging ubuntu-dev-tools and its deps into debian?
<Laney> lucas_: you guys want that?
<DktrKranz> Laney: could be interesting to have some, Ubuntu developers working on debian boxes could benefit from such a tool
<azeem_> maybe it makes sense to submit generally-useful scripts/tools to the devscripts package (if there are any)
<DktrKranz> well, there are several
<DktrKranz> requestsync is very useful
<azeem_> Ubuntu-specific however?
<DktrKranz> it is, but it can be used by Debian maintainers to request syncs for their packages
<azeem_> well, maybe having them in devscripts would be fine as well, dunno; however it would be easier to maintain them seperately
<azeem_> ok
<DktrKranz> it requires some deps (launchpad-integration), but I think this can be included in Debian anyway
<DktrKranz> it's not Ubuntu-specific, LP is intended for several projects, not just Ubuntu
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Requesting syncs from Debian into Ubuntu is Ubuntu specific.
<lucas_> well, I don't have any ubuntu box currently, so it would clearly be very useful for me to have ubuntu-dev-tools in debian :-)
<lucas_> but that's a selfish motivation
<ScottK> Certainly.
<ScottK> (that's a reasonable thing to want)
<DktrKranz> ScottK: I meant Launchpad is not Ubuntu-specific
<ScottK> I just don't think it goes in devscripts.
<ScottK> True
<lifeless> I think it would be great to have ubuntu-dev-tools packaged in debian - as ubuntu-dev-tools :)
<lifeless> DktrKranz: actually, it *is* Ubuntu specific
<lifeless> DktrKranz: it builds on launchpad specific libraries, but its tailored to ubuntu's process which is not the same as other users of launchpad may choose to do
<DktrKranz> I'm not sure of that, think about specific projects and their bugtracker, for instance
<lucas_> it's probably better to have ubuntu-dev-tools in debian *AND* try to get useful scripts integrated into devscripts
<lifeless> DktrKranz: I'm sure of it ;)
<lifeless> lucas_: ack; I think you'll find there are various patches in devscripts already with ubuntu support/things
 * ScottK agrees with lucas
<DktrKranz> well, we could file some ITPs notifying debian-devel, just to see other opinions
<lucas> that would mean packaging python-launchpadlib, python-launchpad-bugs and ubuntu-dev-tools, right?
<lucas> u-d-t has a dependancy on reportbug (>= 3.39ubuntu1). does it require an ubuntu-specific patch?
<ScottK> There's a submittodebian (or similar) script that's probably not relevant.
<dholbach> lucas: no, I think that was when the user tags were introduced in Ubuntu before Debian
<sebner> ScottK: aloha! Do you remember that we were removing boson since it didn't build? Debian made some uploads and it now builds again (here in Karmic), I'm against a re-including since one point was also dead upstream (last release in 2006) and no svn activities for nearly a year or something like that. What do you think?
<ScottK> sebner: Did someone ask for it?
<geser> lucas: u-d-t doesn't use python-launchpad-bugs anymore (the dependency got dropped in trunk)
<ScottK> sebner: if it's maintained in Debian and there's user interest, I think it's fine.
<lucas> geser: nice
<sistpoty|work> ScottK, sebner: boson is actively maintained in debian nowadays, and iirc it has also seen upstream activity again
<DktrKranz> geser: it would help switching to python-support
<sebner> sistpoty|work: uhh, nice
<sebner> sistpoty|work: huhu btw :D
<sistpoty|work> huhu sebner ;)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: not on SF svn though. Last commit 15 months ago
<sistpoty|work> sebner: then I didn't recall correctly :P
<sebner> heh
<sebner> ScottK: Debian maintainer is active, a user added a comment on LP telling that it builds which indicates user interest. So I'll sync and the best is that it doesn't need fakesyncs then ^^
<geser> DktrKranz: as you have commit rights to the u-d-t trunk you're free to change it to python-support
<ivoks> any ideas how to solve stuff like:
<ivoks> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: no dependency information found for debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfenced.so.3 (used by debian/cman/usr/sbin/gfs_controld).
<DktrKranz> geser: ok, I'll have a try
<sistpoty|work> ivoks: hm... what does objdump -p gfs_controld | grep NEEDED output?
<ivoks> sistpoty|work: libfenced.so.3 among others
<ivoks> sistpoty|work: and debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfence
<ivoks> sistpoty|work: exists
<ivoks> gr...
<ivoks> debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfenced.so.3
<sistpoty|work> ivoks: using debhelper? is libfenced.so.3 installed in a package (then debhelper should actually get it right, see dh_shlibdeps man-page, example)
<ivoks> no, libfenced.so.3 isn't part of any package
<ivoks> hm...
<rowinggolfer> my application installs an icon to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scaleable
<geser> have you a dh_makeshlibs call in your debian/rules?
<rowinggolfer> do I need to run a post install script.
<ivoks> geser: yes
<rowinggolfer> the icon works, but only after restarting x.
<ivoks> the same debian/ worked with a bit older upstream version
<rowinggolfer> not a big problem... but It would be preferable if I could have the icon from the get go
<ivoks> 3.0.1 vs 3.0.0
<lucas> azeem_: are you in contact with Matthias Jahn?
<rowinggolfer> anybody ??
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: I don't think it is necessary. Are you testing the application on karmic?
<rowinggolfer> popey did.
<rowinggolfer> this is just a general packaging question I guess
<popey> rowinggolfer: i have another karmic machine I can test on a bit later, its never seen your app so the icon wont be there
<rowinggolfer> wrong place?
<sistpoty|work> rowinggolfer: take a look at man dh_icons ;)
<rowinggolfer> sistpoty|work: thanks!
<sistpoty|work> np
<azeem_> lucas: why?
<lucas> azeem_: he maintains python-httplib2, which is totally outdated in debian (and is a dep for python-launchpadlib)
<lucas> azeem_: and you co-maintain 3 packages with him
<azeem_> haven't seen him in ages TBH
<lucas> ok
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: right, I got confused. I believe dh_desktop was deprecated but dh_icons is still needed.
<rowinggolfer> slytherin: sistpoty|work thanks dudes.
<sistpoty|work> you're welcome ;)
<DktrKranz> lucas: are you going to orphan python-httplib2
<rowinggolfer> one other newbie packaging question if I may......
<rowinggolfer> how to install to Applications/Programming
<rowinggolfer> it keeps ending up in "other"
<rowinggolfer> the .desktop file is
<rowinggolfer> Categories=Application;Programming;
<rowinggolfer> yet it goes to "other"
<rowinggolfer> what am I doing wrong?
<lucas> DktrKranz: yes, just did it
<sistpoty|work> rowinggolfer: I don't think these catagories actually are valid. Take a look at http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<sistpoty|work> rowinggolfer: also, I guess desktop-file-validate <desktopfile> might tell you if there's s.th. wrong with it
<DktrKranz> lucas: do you plan to maintain it? Otherwise, I'll be happy to do it under DPMT
<lucas> DktrKranz: that would be great ; I don't plan to maintain it
<lucas> I X-Debbugs-Cced debian-python@
<DktrKranz> I'll look at it then, thanks :)
<slytherin> rowinggolfer: For Programming use category 'Development'.
<rowinggolfer> ta
<rowinggolfer> slytherin: ok.. new packages all built and working. many thanks.
<EagleScreen> In the case of a package that require a sync, but before it was a merge, should be last Ubuntu changelog entries ignored, keept Debian maintainer, and keept "unstable" release?
<EagleScreen> I mean "unstable" target release in the debian/changelog
<geser> rowinggolfer: you can check you .desktop file with desktop-file-validate for conformance
<EagleScreen> I understand that a sync does not require nothing of work by contributors, only merges, isn't it?
<geser> EagleScreen: you should do a check if it builds in karmic before requesting a sync
<sebner> EagleScreen: and if it's really a sync and doesn't contain any remaining or new changes
<sebner> huhi geser :D
<geser> Hi sebner
<geser> EagleScreen: and soon if it can by synced or a FF exception is needed
<EagleScreen> thanks i think i messed a little the sync and the merge stuff, i have attached a pair of debdiff to a sync bug, lol
<EagleScreen> and I merged in it the Debian and Ubuntu changelogs
<rowinggolfer> geser: great tip, thanks
<EagleScreen> after Feature Freeze, packages that does not contains new upstream version, cannot be synced?
<rowinggolfer> prog/pyapptemplate-0.0.1/desktop/pyapptemplate.desktop: warning: value "Application;Development;" for key "Categories" in group "Desktop Entry" contains a deprecated value "Application"
<rowinggolfer> interesteing
<rowinggolfer> that explains it.
<sebner> EagleScreen: even new upstream version is allowed if the new release contains *only* bugfixes. Other than that you are fine with non-upstream changes. Though they should be worth a sync, fixig RC bugs etc
<kklimonda> what to do if a wrong (older) version was synced from debian? should i open new bug report or change bug status from fix released to confirmed?
<slytherin> EagleScreen: when doing merges, use grab-merge script. It merges changelog properly.
<slytherin> kklimonda: new bug.
<EagleScreen> yes i used it
<EagleScreen> but i messed the concepts and i did a merge for a sync
<kklimonda> ok thanks
<kklimonda> slytherin: could you create a bug for me?
<kklimonda> I wont be at home before 27th and preparing right sync request from a phone wont be easy ;)
<kklimonda> or anyone else - package python-cherrypy3
<EagleScreen> i used to think that a package cannot have "unstable" in changelog target release and a change in the chagelog was needed to karmic, that is because Launchpad reject them when uploading to ppa, but now I see that it is possible in Ubuntu Archive
<EagleScreen> i have a simple program that is a python script, how must I proceed to learn to package it?
<juanje> Hi, one more advocate needed for nautilus-md5sum - anyone available to review? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/nautilus-md5sum
<jjmontes> hi
<jjmontes> is this a correct way to ask about packages and meta-packages?
<RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, heya!! hey I have a small question: by this "No need to install PKG-INFO in .egg-info directory." you mean there's no need to install PKG-INFO at all, or just under .egg-info directory?
<DktrKranz> no need at all
<RoAkSoAx> DktrKranz, ok awesome!! thanks for the review!! I've uploaded my changes :)
<DktrKranz> good
<AnAnt> Hello, why does request-sync in karmic use LP lib by default ?
<geser> AnAnt: for some tests is uses the LP API but I'm working on it (not using LP API without --lp)
<geser> AnAnt: e.g. it uses LP API to check for sponsorship
<slytherin> AnAnt: You mean for filing request or for retrieving information?
<slytherin> a bit offtopic, does anyone know how to create a syntax highlighting template for vim?
<geser> look at the existing ones and read the vim help
<AnAnt> slytherin: what I try to do is this: requestsync -s irssiscripts karmic
<ryanakca> shadeslayer: OK. So, apt-get the sources for the package. Then go into the sources directory and look at the contents of the debian/ subdirectory.
<AnAnt> I filed a bug already
<ryanakca> shadeslayer: also, try building hello-<VERSION>.dsc using pbuilder.
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: oh btw PC beep works ;)
<AnAnt> LP 416955
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416955 in ubuntu-dev-tools "request-sync insists on using LP lib even if I don't use --lp switch !" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416955
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: oh really ? how's that ?
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: modprobe i guess
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: I mean, what did you do ? an upgrade or what ?
<shadeslayer> ryanakca: ok...ill just finish with the updates
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: no upgrade,just rmmod and modprobe a few times and got it to work
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: ?!
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: rmmod pcspkr;sudo modprob pcspkr
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: does the beep sound regular ?
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: yeah I understand, I did that several times, but no use, it only works if I rmmod pcspkr
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: regular??? lol....it sounds like a high pitched siren if you know what i mean
<ryanakca> shadeslayer: you can apt-get source even while updates are running. And you can run it as non-root (in fact, you should)
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: and the beep sounds awkward: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/30543548/beep.ogg
<shadeslayer> ryanakca: ah..ok
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: nope...
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: how do you record a beep btw?
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: that's not what you get ?
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: nope
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: well, I put the mic on the speakers, and the room was quiet at that time
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: i have inbuilt ones and the beep is really loud.... :P
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: you can control the beep, from alsamixer
<AnAnt> I mean beep volume
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: lemme check
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: yep
<slytherin> AnAnt: Just in case you haven't noticed already, monajat is in archives. :-)
<AnAnt> slytherin: oh thanks !
<AnAnt> slytherin: I hope I can get the python one soon !
<AnAnt> slytherin: there's a bug in the java one, turns out that it does not non-free font after all !
<slytherin> what bug?
<AnAnt> slytherin: there's a bug in the java one, turns out that it does *need* non-free font after all !
<AnAnt> slytherin: remember the font issue ?
<slytherin> Yes I do. But I though ttf-libration should be good enough.
<shadeslayer> ryanakca: im on a crappy connection (128 kbps)
<AnAnt> slytherin: nope, turned not good !
<AnAnt> slytherin: anyways, the python version is almost there
<AnAnt> slytherin: it uses notify OSD instead
<slytherin> AnAnt: I had advised cutout long time ago to use font family name (Sans) instead of a specific font (Arial).
<slytherin> AnAnt: you can still try patching the source to use font family.
<AnAnt> slytherin: I tried patching the java code to user Sans or Serif, but still the problem remained
<AnAnt> slytherin: so I gave up on it
<slytherin> When I had patched it, it looked good to me, at least with default Sans font.
<AnAnt> slytherin: sometimes the text is big, bigger than the window, hence some words get chopped !
<AnAnt> anyways, someone volunteered to rewrite in python, and there's a working version, just an issue (that maybe I can ignore now) is left is that the text is sometimes too big, that notify OSD truncates it
<AnAnt> so I want to find out a way to detect maximum text size before truncation
<slytherin> which version of notify-osd are you using?
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: so, for every reboot, you keep rmmod'ing & modprobe'ing till beep works ?!
<AnAnt> slytherin: the one in karmic
<slytherin> ok
<AnAnt> slytherin: 0.9.17-0ubuntu1
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: nope....
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: it works by deafult
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: are you sure there wasn't some pulseaudio option to tweak ?
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: pretty sure
<AnAnt> no work here !
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: how long will you be around?
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: dunno, why ?
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: prolly, not much though
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: i have some upgrades coming through (150 MB) as soon as they are done ill upload a recording
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: upload it where ?
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: somewhere on the interwebs
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: the upgrade will be done in about 40 mins and another 10 mins to record and upload
<AnAnt> shadeslayer: I'll probably leave in few mins, can you send me a message over LP about the link ?
<shadeslayer> AnAnt: okies
<AnAnt> thanks
<jtimberman> mathiaz: going through chef now, just added the patch description, it went missing after i set my quilt_patches env variable correctly and recreated the patches.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - that's what I thought.
<lamalex> hey guys, does anyone know if python-clutter will be updated for karmic to the latest release?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: new upload
<mathiaz> jdstrand: kirkland: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257042/ - should the copyright file mention only copyrights shipped as part of the *source* package?
<kirkland> mathiaz: as opposed to?  dependent packages?  linked packages?  binary packages?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: umm, yes? I'm not sure I understand the question. the binaries contain differently licensed stuff?
<mathiaz> or should it also cover things that are shipped by the binary package (build during the process)
<mathiaz> or should it also cover things that are shipped by the binary package (build during the build process)
<mathiaz> in the example above: openqrm-initrd-default.tgz is build during the build process
<mathiaz> it contains some code from busybox which is not in the source package
<mathiaz> should it mentionned in the copyright file?
<mathiaz> should it be mentionned in the copyright file?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: the library linking needs to be compatible, but to be redistributable, the copyright only needs to reference what is shipped in the source package aiui
<jdstrand> mathiaz: perhaps run it by a license junkie too?
<azeem_> mathiaz: how does it contain code which is not in the source package?
<azeem_> is that code downloaded from elsewhere during the build?
<mathiaz> azeem_: from build dependencies
<azeem_> ah
<jdstrand> mathiaz: it would not hurt to reference that, but I don't think it is required, personally. when you do 'apt-get source <pkg>' you'll get only the stuff from the copyright
<jdstrand> or rather, from the non-busybox included source
<ivoks> i need help :/
<ivoks> source is building a private library
<ivoks> and then both me and dpkg-shlibdeps get confused
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i've added path to the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<ivoks> but now it dies with
<ivoks> error: no dependency information found for library (used by binary)
<ScottK> Laney: For ghc6, how do we get ia64 fixed?
<hyperair> ivoks: nyou shouldn't be playing around with LD_LIBRARY_PATH when dealing with dpkg-shlibdeps
<ivoks> hyperair: why?
<hyperair> ivoks: because it won't be set when the user runs it?
<hyperair> ivoks: unless you've got some wrapper shell script that sets the env vars =\
<ivoks> my problem is this:
<ivoks> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libfenced.so.3 needed by debian/cman/usr/sbin/gfs_controld (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '').
<hyperair> alright, and where is that library?
<ivoks> there's no debian/cman/DEBIAN/shlibs
<ivoks> it's in debian/tmp/usr/lib
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> i haven't heard of a problem like that =\
<ivoks> argh...
<ivoks> libfence and libfenced :)
<hyperair> ?
<ivoks> there are both libfence and libfenced libraries
<hyperair> i see
<ivoks> but libfenced wasn't installed in any of the packages
<hyperair> haha i see
<ivoks> i'm not sure what should i do with it
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> how are you splitting your pacakges?
<ivoks> upstream:
<ivoks> If you think this library is installed on your cluster, you are wrong.
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> that's in headers
<ivoks> You have never seen it, it doesn't exist, you'll never talk about it or ponder to use it.
<ivoks> hyperair: there's only libfence package
<hyperair> O_o
<hyperair> talk to upstream about it
<hyperair> it obviously needs to be distributed
<ivoks> right
<hyperair> if it shouldn't be distributed, they should have statically compiled it into one of the libraries or the binary
<jtimberman> mathiaz: latest chef upload should fix the outstanding issues in your comment.
<ivoks> hyperair: thanks for help
<ivoks> hyperair: upstream uses the same library in different ways for different stages of source in svn
<ivoks> hyperair: so that's why they didn't build it in staticaly
<hyperair> ivoks: well is it supposed to be distributed or not, then?
<ivoks> it is
<ivoks> but it shouldn't be used for development
<ivoks> it was confusing explanation :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: how do you fix the possible bashisms: kill -1 $pid ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: /bin/kill
<kirkland> mathiaz: don't use the shell builtin kill
<hyperair> that's a bashism?
<hyperair> the manpage seems to indicate that -1 is allowed
<mathiaz> hyperair: the man page of kill or of bash/dash?
<hyperair> man page of kill
<hyperair> it's SIGHUP is it not?
<mathiaz> hyperair: right you're looking at the /bin/kill man page then.
<hyperair> mmhmm, so how's that a bashism?
<mathiaz> hyperair: kill -1 $pid is using the builtin bash kill command
<hyperair> well yes, but it acts like /bin/kill doesn't it?
<hyperair> are there any differences?
<hyperair> as in, behavioural differences
<hyperair> if there aren't, then it shouldn't be a problem, should it?
<mathiaz> hyperair: the problem is that the dash builtin kill command may be different from the bash builtin kill command
<hyperair> it's different, but is there a difference in behaviour?
<hyperair> i believe both are made to be compatible to /bin/kill
<mathiaz> hyperair: if you run a script with #!/bin/sh you'll run with dash, not bash under a default ubuntu system
<hyperair> it's standardized, no?
<hyperair> i'm very well aware, you don't have to fill me in on those nitty gritty details
<hyperair> i'm saying that dash's kill and bash's kill both are compatible to /bin/kill style arguments, so there is no point in going out of your way to not use the builtin
<hyperair> or do you want to override all your echos with /bin/echo as well?
<hyperair> and /bin/cat?
<hyperair> no wait, cat doesn't have a builtin
<mathiaz> hyperair: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=396821
<ubottu> Debian bug 396821 in dash "dash 0.5.2-5 manpage doesn't document its builtin 'kill' command" [Normal,Open]
<mathiaz> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DashAsBinSh - has a section about this
<hyperair> so kill -[0-9] is a bashism? =\
<hyperair> does it not work in dash?
<mathiaz> hyperair: it may work - it's just not documented under dash
<hyperair> bah.
<Elbrus> If I upgrade a package in Debian with translation improvements, till when can it be merged for Karmic? (WinFF)
<hyperair> i think it's a false alarm
<hyperair> Elbrus: as soon as it gets ACCEPTed into debian, and as long as we aren't in a more major freeze than feature freeze
<Elbrus> hyperair: thanks
<zooko> Greetings, people of #ubuntu-motu!
<zooko> I seek Ubuntu developers to serve as advocates to upload Tahoe-LAFS into Karmic.
<zooko> Tahoe-LAFS is an open source secure cloud storage system.
<zooko> We need two people willing to sign on as recommending it in order for it to be uploaded into Karmic.
<zooko> If you are authorized to be an advocate for such a package, please write to zooko@zooko.com or join #tahoe on irc.freenode.net.  Thank you!
<porthose> zooko, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU btw Feature Freeze is 27 August
 * zooko reads.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: for the log file deletion, /var/log/chef/something*, where something is the logfile name appropriate to the package (indexer, server, client)
<jtimberman> correct?
<zooko> porthose: okay, thanks.  I'll upload it to REVU.  Dustin Kirkland told me that I'll need two advocates eventually.
<zooko> Actually I'll ask Brian Warner to upload it to REVU -- he is more expert at Debian packaging than I am.
<porthose> :)
<pochu> zooko: yes, you need two advocates in REVU, but you can get them (you usually do so) after you have uploaded the package there
<porthose> zooko, FYI you will need a launchpad account if you don't have one already :)
<iulian> zooko: Please let me know when the package is uploaded to revu.
<zooko> porthose, julian: okay, thanks!
<zooko> Brian is at a get-together/lunch event right now but I expect he'll upload it later today.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes - the log files are already set correctly in the logrotate file
<jtimberman> mathiaz: sorry, i mean the log file deletion in the postrm script.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes - I meant that the pattern for each package is already set in the logrotate file
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ie you know which log filenames should be deleted
<jtimberman> yeah.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: left a comment, too long to paste in irc :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: looks good
<jtimberman> cool, uploading
<jtimberman> mathiaz: thom advocated stompserver as well, early this morning with a note about uploading but i still see it in the advocated list.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/stompserver/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^ that page exists - means that stompserver has been uploaded to the arhive
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ah! thanks :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it's in the NEW queue now - needing a source review of an Archive Admin
<jtimberman> mathiaz: cool.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: the chef-indexer init script stop action doesn't seem to work correclty
<mathiaz> jtimberman: chef-indexer is not killed
<jtimberman> Hmm.
<jtimberman> checking
<jtimberman> mathiaz: when running /etc/init.d/chef-indexer stop?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<mathiaz> jtimberman: the chef-indexer process is still around even though the init script reported a success
<jtimberman> Hmm.
<jtimberman> i'm not seeing that on my local karmic system.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: let me double-check
<jtimberman> http://paste.ubuntu.com/257160/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257161/ - I have this error now
<jtimberman> mathiaz: and if i purge the packages, it stops indexer.
<jtimberman> looks like libstomp didn't get reinstalled, though i'm not sure why it would complain about rubygems.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257163/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: ^^
<mathiaz> jdstrand: nevermind
<jtimberman> mathiaz: libstomp-ruby isn't already installed is it?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: nope - it's a brand new vm
<jtimberman> hmm.
<jtimberman> 'chef' depends on libstomp-ruby
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - I've only installed chef-indexer
<mathiaz> jtimberman: doesn't make sense to have chef-indexer without chef?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: installing libstomp-ruby list erubis as the next missing dep
<jtimberman> 'erubis' or liberubis-ruby?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257164/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: installing liberubis-ruby fixes the issue
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and chef-indexer starts correclty
<jtimberman> updated the depends for libchef-ruby
<jtimberman> argh, merb rejected due to no LICENSE file :/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: in the upstream tarball?
<jtimberman> guess so
<jtimberman> rather, its empty
<jtimberman> and there's object files in the source tarball.
<jtimberman> part of the webrat spec testing, which isn't in the resulting packages
<jtimberman> mathiaz: stompserver rejected too :( - the stompserver user is added during postinst but is not removed on purge
<jtimberman> in postrm.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: are you reviewing this?^
<jdstrand> yeah
<jtimberman> oh! hi jdstrand :)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: for the user not being removed on purged, I discussed that with slangasek yesterday
<jdstrand> o/
<mathiaz> jdstrand: and he (and liw) said that it was better to not remove the user
<jdstrand> why?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/20/%23ubuntu-devel.html
<mathiaz> jdstrand: 16:34
<mathiaz> jtimberman: found issue with /usr/bin/chef-i
<mathiaz> jtimberman: found the issue with chef-indexer
<mathiaz> jtimberman: the shebang line is /usr/bin/env ruby
<mathiaz> jtimberman: that seems to break the init script
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ahh.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: changing it to /usr/bin/ruby1.8 works
<jtimberman> mathiaz: as in s/env ruby/ruby1.8/ ?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes
<jtimberman> jdstrand: stompserver license information is in the readme.txt (/usr/share/doc/stompserver/README.txt.gz)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: you probably wanna drop a line about this in the debian/copyright
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I'm not sure I agree with that. that uid isn't going to be the same across systems, so the NFS concern is too conservative. plus at worst you end up with some uid's that don't map to a username. imo, it's cleaner to remove it
<jdstrand> that said, if you actively decided against remove it, that is different than forgeting to, and I won't block on it
<mathiaz> jdstrand: could uid be recycled?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: if it is removed? sure
<jtimberman> mathiaz: adding under stompserver's debian/copyright, License section: From README.txt (/usr/share/doc/stompserver/README.txt.gz).. MIT License..etc
<mathiaz> jdstrand: so one could end up with a uid reused for two system users
<mathiaz> jdstrand: whith the latter having access to files from the former
<jdstrand> jtimberman: that would be much clearer-- normally one looks for a LICENSE or COPYING file, so if it is in a different place, just mention it in debian/copyright
<jtimberman> fwiw, chef-indexer isn't likely to be installed on more than one system in a particular network, its pretty specific with the chef-server.
<jtimberman> jdstrand: will do.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: if the concern is regarding NFS, you already have that problem because it is a dynamically allocated uid. that uid might be allocated differently on another client
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I agree with the remote uid issue
<jtimberman> oh you're not talking about indexer - stompserver.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: why is it creating files all over the place so they can't be cleanly removed on purge anyway?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: you mean things in /var/lib/stompserver for example?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: anyway, like I said, if you actively omitted it from postrm, then I won't block on it
<jdstrand> we are in the realm of opinion here, I don't think policy has anything to say on it
<mathiaz> jdstrand: cool. Thanks - it was discussed.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: yop - it's a grey area.
<jtimberman> jdstrand: for merb's license, can i add a similar line to debian/copyright to point at the LICENSE file as installed in one of the packages?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yeah, /var/lib/stompserver should be cleaned automatically or at least the user notified that it is not. if the former, removing the user makes sense, if not, then leaving the user makes sense
<jdstrand> jtimberman: merb had a blank LICENSE file correct? why not just add something to that?
<jdstrand> jtimberman: either that or explain what you mean by 'installed in one of the packages'
<jtimberman> jdstrand: i don't think the blank LICENSE file is put anywhere in the packaging, is it?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I asked about that too
<mathiaz> jdstrand: 16:42
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes, I saw that. it all depends on what the package does
<jdstrand> mathiaz: another gray area where one needs to decide
<mathiaz> jdstrand: yes - stompserver is a message server. messages are stored in /var/lib/stompserver IIUC
<jdstrand> mathiaz: for example, I don't leave firewall file around on purge in ufw (purge is purge afterall)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: but, it would be disappointing to see my mysql blown away so easily
<mathiaz> jdstrand: well purge is remove configuration files
<mathiaz> jdstrand: it doesn't say about user generated data that cannot be recreated easily
<jdstrand> mathiaz: that was basically my point
<mathiaz> jdstrand: right - slapd asks whether you wanna delete your database on package purging.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: the packager decides, and depending on what decisions are made, it might influence other decisions, like removing the system user
 * mathiaz nods
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> :)
 * jtimberman nods
 * jtimberman nods off.
<jtimberman> :D
 * mathiaz waves
<mathiaz> jdstrand: so for stompserver: don't delete user data and keep the system user around - is that a satisfactory combination?
<jdstrand> jtimberman: LICENSE is blank in the merb_1.0.12-0ubuntu1 source
<jdstrand> jtimberman: that is confusing to say the least
<mathiaz> jtimberman: does it make sense to have chef-server running *without* chef-indexer?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: no, indexer is part of the reason to run a chef-server in the first place
<jdstrand> jtimberman: merb has a lot of subdirs, and pointing to one of them in debian/copyright doesn't feel right. why does merb-core's licensing have anything to do with merb-slices?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: the chef-indexer program is actually shipped with the chef-server gem in our gem distribution method
<jdstrand> (rhetorical question)
<jdstrand> jtimberman: the cleanest thing is to put something in LICENSE imho
<jtimberman> jdstrand: whats the best way to handle that? add it to the source dir i'm running dpkg-buildpackage from, patch via quilt, or put in the orig.tar.gz?
<jtimberman> I'm fine with putting something in the top-level LICENSE file and since its MIT, that's okay :)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: re stompserver> it makes sense to me. like I said, I just wanted to make sure it was thought about. leaving cruft like uid's for no good reason is annoying :)
<jdstrand> jtimberman: orig.tar.gz
<jdstrand> jtimberman: if it is done in packaging it really isn't all that different from mentioning it in debian/copyright
<jdstrand> jtimberman: so having the upstream source include it is best
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok - thanks the feedback.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: was this the only reason for rejecting stompserver?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: no, it was the license file
<jdstrand> mathiaz: I would have accepted it, but questioned the uid otherwise
<jdstrand> (policy doesn't speak to this issue, and it's gray, so I wouldn't block on it)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok. I'll sponsor a new version of stompserver once jtimberman uploads a new version.
<jtimberman> jdstrand: stompserver uploaded with the note in debian/copyright about location of the MIT license being the README.txt.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: uploaded :)
<mathiaz> jtimberman: to REVU?
<jtimberman> yes
<jtimberman> mathiaz: like just finished when i sent that.. should be on a few minutes
<jtimberman> merb uploaded as well
<mathiaz> jtimberman: did you remove the object files from merb .orig.tar.gz?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and since you're repacking the orig.tar.gz I'd mention it in the changelog.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: The reasons for differing tarballs must be in debian/changelog
<jtimberman> mathiaz: where in the policy is that, so i can reference it in the changelog
<mathiaz> jtimberman: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Tips
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I don't where in the Policy it's written though.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: mention that the upstream LICENSE file is empty and was replaced with the License and that object files have been removed.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: from the upstream tarball.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: that look okay for changelog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257188/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257191/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: s/remove/removed/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/257193/
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ok, rebuilding and uploading in a minute
<jtimberman> merb uploaded
<RoAkSoAx> requestsync is not working right guys?
<Laney> ScottK: I don't know. We're looking into this on the Debian side too but it's looking unlinkely for 6.10.4 :(
<ScottK> Laney: So what's the plan in Debian?  AFAIK you can't get to testing without IA64.
<Laney> Right, testing migration is blocked and may have to stay so
<Laney> I don't know of the details but I think there's some upstream issue here
<jtimberman> mathiaz: jdstrand: stompserver and merb uploaded back to REVU w/ the fixes discussed.
<Laney> ScottK: I'm planning on kicking off a thread on debian-haskell about this, but the outcome is likely to be "wait for upstream", sadly
<jtimberman> mathiaz: chef-indexer init script seems to be doing the right thing for me.
<ScottK> Laney: Ouch.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-22
<Laney> under the "what of GHC in testing" heading
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you using a vm or a chroot to do your testing?
<jtimberman> vm
<mathiaz> jtimberman: what's the command line that is running chef-indexer?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I mean in the output of ps -ef
<jtimberman> root      8509     1  0 17:04 ?        00:00:00 ruby /usr/bin/chef-indexer -d -c /etc/chef/indexer.rb
<jtimberman> i'm installing the gems with dpkg though, not apt.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: gems == .deb?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you using a pristine vm for your tests?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: yeah, i have a snapshot from right after installation with no ruby or anything else. i install the external chef dependencies via apt, then install the packages via dpkg.
<jtimberman> though i'm fixing my local apt repo
<mathiaz> jtimberman: hm - that may be the reason
<mathiaz> jtimberman: let me check
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you changing the signal handler in chef-indexer?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: what do you mean?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: are you changing the way signals are handle in the chef-indexer code?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: not sure, i didn't actualyl write the indexer
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it's an issue between chef-indexer and the stompserver
<jtimberman> mathiaz: oh?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it seems that the indexer stops responding to TERM signals
<jtimberman> mathiaz: hmm: FATAL: SIGTERM received, stopping (when running purge on the package0
<mathiaz> jtimberman: right - apparently SIGTERM is not always received
<jtimberman> fun. :/
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yeah - I don't know.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: so you're unable to reproduce it?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: so far, yeah. it exits cleanly for me every time i purge.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: it may be a timing issue
<mathiaz> jtimberman: related to my vm setup
<jtimberman> mathiaz: does it happen for you every time?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yes.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: how are you connectin to your vm? via ssh or local console?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: VM host is a VMware server on gigabit ethernet downstairs.
<jtimberman> and I ssh in.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: and how do you get into the VM guest?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: ssh
<jtimberman> mathiaz: it has bridged networking through the host, so directly on the same subnet.
<mathiaz> jtimberman: I though it may have been related to bug 407428
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407428 in openssh "sshd zombie processes and strange behavior after karmic upgrade" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407428
<jtimberman> mathiaz: mmm, i'm running alpha3.. i don't think i've done an upgrade since i installed several days ago
<mathiaz> jtimberman: yeah - you'd better upgrade
<jtimberman> oh tasty, rsyslog 4.2.0 :)
<jtimberman> mathiaz: using apt-get purge or dpkg --purge, the chef-indexer always stops cleanly for me.
<jtimberman> mathiaz: when you purge, does it remove stompserver as well?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: nope
<pochu> any emesene users around?
<pochu> if so, can somebody try 1.5 from unstable (or incoming) and if it works fine, request a sync?
<jtimberman> mathiaz: so what do you think, I can't reproduce the behavior you're seeing.. is this "okay" for packaging? do we need a second MOTU to check as well?
<mathiaz> jtimberman: a second MOTU advocation is needed anyway to get the pacakage uploaded.
<jtimberman> any other MOTU around able to look at Chef? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/chef
<jtimberman> oh, i see you advocated a bit ago :)
<binarymutant> does the python team have a launchpad page?
<vorian> there is a pythonist group
<binarymutant> is that this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Python ?
<ScottK> No.  That one is obsolete.
<ScottK> There are two Python teams in LP, ~pythonistas and ~pythoneers.
<binarymutant> ah ty
<lfaraone> james_w: (or anybody else), can you ACK bug 417174 for me?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417174 in ubuntu "Sync autokey 0.54.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417174
<Laney> lfaraone: is it urgent?
<lfaraone> Laney: Not particularly, I'd just like to beat FF.
<Laney> You have the request in already, so it will be fine
<lfaraone> Hey, my main GPG key (which is in the SWOT) is a DSA 1024 key. Is that strong enough for the considerable future? (for use while packaging etc)
<geser> I'd say yes (I've one myself). It was long the gpg default for new keys.
<wgrant> A lot of people migrated to stronger RSA keys earlier this year.
<wgrant> DSA keys will hopefully all go away eventually.
<wgrant> (although mine is 1024D as well)
<geser> I've already started a slow migration to a DSA2 key, but the most signing I still do with my DSA1 key
<lfaraone> geser: DSA2?
<geser> DSA1 is limited to a 1k DSA/2k ElGamal key, this was moved higher for DSA2 (3k DSA/4k ElGamal)
<hyperair> is there a way to figure out which ppa a package came from? (if it's already installed)
<c_korn> apt-cache policy packahe
<c_korn> *package
<c_korn> hm, wait. that does not show you the exact url
<hyperair> yeah, that's the problem =\
<hyperair> it only says ppa.launchpad.net
<hyperair> the only way i can think of is apt-get install --print-uris
<hyperair> but that's annoying. isn't there some easier way?
<hyperair> besides grepping in /var/lib/apt or something
<c_korn> apt-cache showpkg vlc | grep -A 5 'Versions:'
<c_korn> well, it does not grab in the /var/lib/apt directly
<c_korn> :)
<c_korn> s/grab/grep/
<geser> hyperair: can you pastebin the output from apt-cache policy $package? I don't have any PPA in use currently
<c_korn> it only shows: 500 http://ppa.launchpad.net jaunty/main Packages
<hyperair> geser: http://pastebin.com/f2d3fbde1
<c_korn> but not the PPA itself acutally
<hyperair> yeah, it would be nice if it showed the entire repository URL
<wgrant> That's probably an apt bug now that PPAs are so widespread.
<hyperair> mmhmm
<geser> file a bug against apt
<hyperair> yep
<hyperair> and if launchpad gets debian PPA support, i would think it'd get even more widespread =D
<wgrant> Indeed.
<geser> I guess it wasn't assumed to have several repositories from the same host when this code was written in the past
<hyperair> actually we would be able to work around the issue if we instead had something like.. <ppa-name>.<owner>.ppa.launchpad.net or something
<hyperair> mmhmm
<_ruben> doesnt work well with https tho
<wgrant> And P3As have to use HTTPS.
<wgrant> So fixing apt is required.
<geser> do the deb lines for P3As also end in /ubuntu?
<wgrant> geser: Yes. They're the same, but https://user:pass@private-ppa.launchpad.net rather than http://ppa.launchpad.net.
<hyperair> p3as huh O_o
<geser> Private PPAs
<hyperair> yeah, i realized
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ping
<montelEdwards> can someone help me with a pkg
<montelEdwards> I need to edit the package dependices which are wrong
<geser> which package and which dependency is wrong?
<montelEdwards> geser, http://download.limewire.com/download/LimeWireLinux.deb
<montelEdwards> limewire
<montelEdwards> It wants the Java (non free) jre
<montelEdwards> and it works fine with openjdk
 * montelEdwards knows that because he ran it from source
<montelEdwards> geser, I tried to edit it and rebuild it but i got dpkg-deb: failed in buffer_read(fd): copy info file `LimeWireLinux/DEBIAN/control': Is a directory
<geser> hmm, and is the error message true?
<montelEdwards> yesx
<montelEdwards> isnt it suposed to be a dir?
<geser> let me think, I edit .debs pretty rarely
<montelEdwards> I got it and everything, I just need to know how to rebuild it
<geser> control should be a simple textfile
<geser> how did you extract the deb?
<montelEdwards> file-roller
<hyperair> debs are ar archives
<hyperair> inside it you will find data.tar.gz and control.tar.gz
<hyperair> open control.tar.gz, and change the stuff in the control text file
<hyperair> the syntax should be pretty obvious
<hyperair> then re-tar control.tar.gz, and pack it together with data.tar.gz into an ar archive, then rename it to something.deb
<montelEdwards> hyperair, how do i compress .ar
<hyperair> use file-roller
<montelEdwards> it wont work
<hyperair> it did for me
<hyperair> i've done it before
<hyperair> and what does "won't work" mean?
<hyperair> exactly what fails?
<geser> or "dpkg-deb -x Limewire.deb limewire; cd limewire; dpkg-deb -e ../Limewire.deb", edit DEBIAN/control, "cd ..; dpkg-deb -b limewire" to build the fixed deb
<montelEdwards> hyperair, it just like pops up, and exits
<montelEdwards> no archive
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> use nautilus then
<hyperair> highlight control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz then right click and compress
<montelEdwards> oh nvm
<montelEdwards> hyperair, i rmed the files in it
<montelEdwards> so it was making a blank archive
 * hyperair doesn't understand =.=
<hyperair> anyway what geser said is a better way of doing it
<montelEdwards> dpkg-deb: file `/home/montel/LimeWireLinux.deb' is not a debian binary archive
<geser> montelEdwards: it this the downloaded file?
<montelEdwards> yes
<geser> because I tested this myself to give you the correct steps
<montelEdwards> my modified
<geser> use it on the unmodified
<montelEdwards> FINALLY
<montelEdwards> i got it
<montelEdwards> thanks geser hyperair
<hyperair> np
<hyperair> congrats (you should have just used frostwire's deb, it's got at least correct dependencies)
<hyperair> but at least you learnt something new this way ;)
<montelEdwards> hyperair, oh, im going to try them
<hyperair> =)
<montelEdwards> i just like Limewire's UI
<hyperair> frostwire's UI is almost a direct clone of limewire's
<hyperair> unless you count colours
<hyperair> frostwire's is mostly blue
<hyperair> but themeable
<hyperair> the frostwire guys should seriously just do something about their copyright header issues and let us package it already =\
<montelEdwards> hyperair, Medibuntu,,,,
<hyperair> i meant officially in the archives
<montelEdwards> oh
<montelEdwards>  and
<hyperair> hmm it seems that emacs has a .deb editing mode, by the way
<hyperair> heheh
<montelEdwards> damn
<montelEdwards> im going to use the source code
 * montelEdwards thinks LimeWire works better with openjdk
<montelEdwards> hyperair, that is the new UI http://i29.tinypic.com/6f441c.jpg
<hyperair> montelEdwards: oho, there's a new UI eh? that's interesting.
<hyperair> it does look good, yes
<hyperair> it looks rather like itunes
<hyperair> or songbird
<montelEdwards> hyperair, yep
<montelEdwards> 5.0
<hyperair> cool
<hyperair> i wonder if frostwire will follow suite
<montelEdwards> probably.
<hyperair> heheh
<sebner> huhu norsetto :D
<norsetto> huhu sebner
<debfx> could a universe sponsor please have a look at bug #256419
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256419 in purple-plugin-pack "pidgin-plugin-pack needs updating" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256419
<debfx> the pidgin-plugin-pack should really be updated
<mhagger> I am an upstream author of a Python package.  What should I do with manpages to make the package easy to turn into a DEB package?  (This is using distutils.)
<stochastic> can anyone tell me why my uscan claims this watch file doesn't have a proper URL : http://sf.net/xjadeo/xjadeo-(.+)\.tar\.gz
<directhex> sf uses a special built-in redirect facility which breaks about 1/3 of the time
<stochastic> so is the watch file okay or should I redesign it around the breaking redirect?
<directhex> up to you
<directhex> here's a workaround if you want it: http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/download.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/
<stochastic> directhex, you don't have a minute to do a revu of that package do you http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xjadeo
<directhex> sorry, no
<bdrung_> stochastic: i recommend to not change your watchfile and wait for a fixed redirect.
<stochastic> bdrung_, that's the route I took
<stochastic> bdrung_, I see you're on the MOTU media team, are you able to revu packages (it's a multimedia package)?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-08-23
<bdrung_> stochastic: not yet. in four days is my motu application. :)
<bdrung_> stochastic: which package?
<stochastic> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xjadeo
<stochastic> I'm hoping to get it in before feature freeze
<bdrung_> stochastic: you could wrap the Build-Depends
<bdrung_> stochastic: how about using debhelper v7? this would shorten your debian/rules file.
<bdrung_> stochastic: you could use this format for debian/copyright: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/
<bdrung_> stochastic: here are some issues from lintian:
<bdrung_> xjadeo: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/qjadeo/locale/qjadeo_fr.qm
<bdrung_> xjadeo: copyright-refers-to-symlink-license usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<bdrung_> xjadeo: spelling-error-in-binary ./usr/bin/qjadeo environement environment
<bdrung_> X: xjadeo: spelling-error-in-binary ./usr/bin/xjadeo extention extension
<bdrung_> X: xjadeo: spelling-error-in-binary ./usr/bin/xjadeo extention extension
<bdrung_> X: xjadeo: spelling-error-in-binary ./usr/bin/xjadeo splitted split
<bdrung_> P: xjadeo: no-homepage-field
<stochastic> bdrung_, hmm, issue #1 seems trivial at best, #2 I was told to use lower compat values to help backporting #3 is this necessary? I just reworked the copyright file other than the last
<stochastic> lintian error I just fixed, but the others I have no idea how to fix
<binarymutant> will pidgin 2.5.9 get synced before karmic's release?
<highvoltage> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rg3uNrI8tE
<stochastic> would any kind motu with a free minute be willing to look over http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/xjadeo
<lfaraone> Hey, would a
<lfaraone> new upstream version be accepted after FF if it was solely a bug fix release?
<geser> yes
<iulian> Yes.
<lfaraone> Cool, thanks.
<iulian> lfaraone: You might want to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess.
<lfaraone> iulian: so I'd still need a FFE?
<wgrant> lfaraone: It varies.
<wgrant> In the last two releases, IIRC, bugfix releases were exempt.
<wgrant> Before that they needed FFEs.
<wgrant> I'm not sure that the policy has been announced for this release.
<iulian> If it's a bug fix only release you don't need an exception.
<iulian> Scroll down to "FeatureFreeze for bug fix only updates (process agreed by motu-release)".
<iulian> lfaraone: ^
<Laney> Does it have to be reconfirmed with each release?
<lfaraone> iulian: Thanks!
<brennion_> I try to get openerp-server pkg working for karmic,but it needs python-xml, that has been deleted from repository... is there a way to properly install it from jaunty repo in the preinst file ? or is there another way ??
<binarymutant> I keep getting patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff in lintain and I'm not sure why? here's my rules http://paste.ubuntu.com/258009/ any help would be appreciative :D
<DktrKranz> binarymutant: zcat *.diff.gz | lsdiff
 * hyperair uses diffstat.
<hyperair> that's the first time i've heard of lsdiff
<binarymutant> DktrKranz, http://paste.ubuntu.com/258010/
<Laney> DktrKranz: rather lsdiff -z
<DktrKranz> you have changes to cap and capify files
<DktrKranz> Laney: also ;)
<binarymutant> strange, so I should ignore that warning?
<Laney> no
<DktrKranz> binarymutant: look at the changes for those files
<Laney> filterdiff -z -x "*debian*" **.diff.gz
<Laney> * not **, of course
<binarymutant> it looks reversed :/
<binarymutant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/258013/
<bdrung> stochastic: using debhelper v7: it shorten the rules file enormously, but you are right. if you want to backport the package, you may have to backport debhelper v7, too.
<hyperair> isn't it already backported?
<bdrung> stochastic: it is not necessary to use dep5 for the copying file. i like the format and it will probably be the standard for debian and therefore ubuntu.
<bdrung> stochastic: about wich lintian reports you do not know how to fix it?
<bdrung> hyperair: i talked about xjadeo. this package is not in the archive at all.
<hyperair> bdrung: i'm talking about debhelper already being backported all the way to hardy.
<bdrung> hyperair: yes, it's backported to hardy. so this is not an issue any more.
<hyperair> yeah
<ghostcube> hmm, i have a question. what is causing my eth1 not to be started by default on my mainline kernel 2.6.30-5. i must restart interfaces manually. Is there anything that is done on the ubuntu patched kernels that is doing this automatically?
<ghostcube> the nameserver isnt set by resolvconf package
<ghostcube> at startup
<hyperair> ghostcube: not that i know of. i've been compiling mainline kernels since 2.6.31 started, and have noticed nothing of that sort.
<hyperair> ghostcube: it should be brought up by networkmanager
<ghostcube> hyperair, networkmanager cant handle eth here
<hyperair> why can't it?
<ghostcube> it just doesnt connect
<hyperair> well do you have an auto eth1 line in /etc/network/interfaces then?
<ghostcube> wait i show you :)
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> (please pastebin it, don't paste here)
<ghostcube> sure :)
<ghostcube> http://pastie.org/592154
<ghostcube> so the prob is all is set only nameserver not from resolvconf package
<ghostcube> i need to restart it manually to get the nameserver for eth1
<ghostcube> and networkmanager never worked for me i always use this way
<hyperair> hmm that's interesting, i have never actually set my dns address in interfaces before
<ghostcube> :)
<hyperair> is resolvconf starting when you boot?
<ghostcube> i have kcpnc so i need to have resolvconf package for setting up the needed ones
<ghostcube> its in rc
<hyperair> which rc
<ghostcube> moment pls
<ghostcube> :|
<ghostcube> ok now iam a bit worried
<ghostcube> its not anymore in rc
<ghostcube> oO
<ghostcube> that would explain why its not working so far or ?
<hyperair> bingo.
<hyperair> wait, no
<hyperair> lemme just install it and see
<ghostcube> i wait no prob in my rc is only networkmanager
<hyperair> how do you usually get resolvconf up and running
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> it appears there's a script in /etc/network/if-up.d
<hyperair> and if-down.d
<ghostcube> yeah i have 000resolvconf there
<ghostcube> but it doesnt do the trick
<hyperair> well, what do you usually do to get it running?
<hyperair> /etc/init.d/networking restart?
<ghostcube> i read it and it should create the eth1.inet into the resolvconf run interfaces folder
<ghostcube> hyperair, yes
<ghostcube> this brings it up
<ghostcube> i wrote a little script so not so much to type
<ghostcube> :D
 * hyperair doesn't know =\
<ghostcube> :| hmm yeah seems a strange thing that the stock kernels can handle this
<ghostcube> and i dont get it
<ghostcube> :)
<ghostcube> this only happens on mainline kernels
<hyperair> hmm how strange =\
<ghostcube> yeah :)
<ghostcube> hyperair, http://pastie.org/592159
<ghostcube> :)
<hyperair> out of curiosity, what's grep -v grep for?
<geser> here is seems to be useless
<geser> usually it's used when grepping "ps aux" to filter out the grep itself
<ghostcube> yep exactly i havent known this before
<ghostcube> but so u can ket it check if there i 0 or 1 as echo
<ghostcube> *l
<mok0> s it possible to pin a certain version of a package, so it's NOT sync'ed from unstable?
<lfaraone> mok0: Sure, just give it an ubuntu revision. (I think)
<geser> you could try getting it added to the sync blacklist till karmic+1 or subscribe to bug mail for that package and look for sync requests
<mok0> geser: but it will be auto-sync'ed for karmic+1
<lfaraone> mok0: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Blacklisting
<mok0> lfaraone: that's certainly feasible
<geser> if you get it off the sync blacklist again
<mok0> lfaraone: thx
<lfaraone> mok0: any time.
<mok0> lfaraone: don't you need to be archive-admin to do that?
<lfaraone> mok0: Correct, so file a bug against ubuntu-archive.
<geser> lfaraone: uploading a ubuntu revision just know doesn't prevent someone from requesting a sync (this would only stop the auto-syncs before DIF)
<lfaraone> mok0: * file a bug against ubuntu subscribing ubuntu-archive
<geser> so blacklisting is the best way
<mok0> I don't want the package erased, I just want to pin the version to an older one than unstable has
<mok0> I guess the easiest thing is to upload an -*ubuntu1 version, with a note in changelog not to merge
<geser> mok0: blacklisting is independent from removing, see e.g. the ocaml-* blacklisting recently to prevent a start of the OCaml transition (we decided later to do it)
<mok0> geser: ok, I will look into it
<geser> mok0: see bug #387943 for the ocaml case
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387943 in ocaml "Karmic: please do NOT synchronize following packages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387943
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> I will do something similar! Thanks!
<mok0> Launchpad is so slow now it's practically unusable
<sebner> mok0: ACK. FAils to load pages here too
<hyperair> it looks fine from here =\
<ghostcube> launchi is slow but works here
<hyperair> well considering it's always slow here, i guess launchpad being slow doesn't affect me much eh
<sebner> hyperair: heh
<sebner> hyperair: do you use edge or normal one?
<hyperair> normal one
<hyperair> saves me typing
<sebner> hyperair: what typing?
<hyperair> edge.
<hyperair> typing urls, you know?
<sebner> hyperair: that would be pretty stupid. get done automatically ;)
<hyperair> hmph.
<ghostcube> ping fta
<ghostcube> damn
<ghostcube> fta, ping
<fta> ghostcube, ?
<ghostcube> fta, you are managing the daily build repo for TB3 and FF3.5 right ?
<fta> yes
<ghostcube> PM ?
<fta> as you want
<wrapster> solution like this is what i want::  use Debian virtual package, (eg zlib1g pkg)  make zlib1g to provide (i.e. using Debian meta tag Provides: in  debian/control) missing packages.   in this case lets assume that we need to integrate all functionalities that SUNWzlib provides.. But without having to install it on the machine but rather try doing something with the existing pkg to get its functionality as well.
<wrapster> in a nutshell this is what i want      .deb --> extracted --> directory--->make changes---> back to .deb
<wrapster> Im a total newbie ,ive worked with solaris for 2yrs but not with .deb ... so can anyone point me out to links for beginners....
<azeem_> wrapster: I don't understand your problem :-/
<ghostcube> azeem_, you scared him
<ghostcube> :P
<ghostcube> i think he just wanted to add dependencies to an deb
<ghostcube> ??
<geser> sebner: one of the edge app servers seems to have problems since the last automatic edge roll-out today
<sebner> geser: seems to be fixed now though.
<geser> oh, good to know
<sebner> bdrung: you are funny with your "Critical" stuff. I'm wondering if the system or hardware breaks if we don't to the update ;)
<bdrung> sebner: yes. :p
<sebner> bdrung: I'll set it back to wishlist :P
<bdrung> sebner: i used the same system as for debian. (not usable at all or ftbfs = very high importance)
<bdrung> the main thing is that the packages are synced (before ff)
<geser> u-a doesn't care about importance on sync requests TTBOMK
<sebner> bddebian: right, well I don't care. The archive admins should/will complain to you :P
<geser> sebner: you need to work on your TAB-completion
<ghostcube> hmm is it somwhow possible to get an what you hear capturew into kmix for intelhda
<geser> (happens sometimes to me too)
<sebner> geser: users should care to not have similar usernames *cough* :P
<sebner> geser: ok "fixed" is the wrong word. LP doesn't let me subscribe archive admins :(
<geser> try again till you get a working app server
<geser> I assume it won't get fixed before monday
<sebner> heh
<hyperair> question. should i be subscribing ubuntu-archive to acked sync requests?
<sebner> hyperair: should have done by the MOTU but if he forgot yes
<hyperair> tsk tsk.
<hyperair> guess who forgot? ;-)
<sebner> hyperair: I guess it's me trying to subscribe since minutes but b0rken LP don't let me
<hyperair> minutes?
<sebner> hyperair: please go ahead then
<slytherin> hyperair: I am curious how you built remuco client.
<hyperair> slytherin: ?
<geser> sebner: you know you can disable the edge redirection?
<hyperair> slytherin: there is one big issue i just realized.
<hyperair> slytherin: i forgot to include it in any .install file, so it's built, but not in any deb
<sebner> geser: too troublesome. We have contributor slaves :P
 * hyperair headdesks
<slytherin> sebner: some people might feel offended with term 'slaves'. :-)
<sebner> slytherin: well, as I consider myself a sponsoring b*tch :P
<slytherin> hyperair: How you got to build it anyway?
<sebner> geser: ha! it was working. just a lot of pressing f5 and the magic happens xD
<hyperair> slytherin: it wasn't me. it was oben sonne (upstream guy)
<hyperair> i think if you dig around the source you might find it
<hyperair> something about copying over some sources
<geser> sebner: with broken edge I had a good opportunity to test my changes to requestsync to work without LP API :)
<slytherin> oh
<hyperair> that reminds me of *another* thing i forgot
 * hyperair facepalms
<hyperair> oh my god, what's wrong with me lately..
<hyperair> i forgot to amend the copyright file
<sebner> geser: heh! Never got this thing working /here xD
<christoph_debian> heya! did launchpad change api or is there some other reason reason requestsync gives my only a python trace today?
<slytherin> hyperair: don't worry, it will surely get rejected. :-P
<hyperair> slytherin: that's comforting.. in a twisted way.
<slytherin> geser: I was going to request a quick review of a small library this morning and when I did 'dput' I mistakenly uploaded it to ubuntu archive. It is waiting in new queue. :-)
<MontelEdwards> hyperair,
<geser> christoph_debian: edge is having problems. this also affects the LP API
<MontelEdwards> i was looking at the license at Frostwire. It is GPL
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: yes it is. there were some other issues
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, like...
<MontelEdwards> GPL is GPL, right?
<hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/94011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94011 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Frostwire" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<hyperair> see the comments
<christoph_debian> geser: ok I have time ... just want that bugfixes to migrate to my ubuntu users as well for karmic some time ;)
<sebner> geser: do the karmic repo is also b0rken? can't update my pbuilder
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, uh huh... why cant you guys use the officall package.
<bdrung> sebner: can you have a look at bug #417204, too? i know, that you do not like the priority...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417204 in esperanza "Sync esperanza 0.4.0+git20090708-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417204
<geser> christoph_debian: you can still file sync requests by hand if you don't want to wait till edge gets fixed
 * slytherin hates when upstream uses too old dependencies :-(
<christoph_debian> geser: I guess I'll just wait -- easier :)
<sebner> bdrung: you are the uploader etc so thats not that bad but I'm wondering if we want at git snapshot over a stable 0.4 release.
<bdrung> sebner: yes, we want it. there are only bug fixes in the git repo since the stable release
<bdrung> sebner: since 0.4 there is nothing "new" developed
<sebner> bdrung: kay, I'll review
<bdrung> sebner: assure yourself: http://git.xmms.se/?p=esperanza.git;a=summary
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: that's a question that needs a very long answer that i dont have time to give
<james_w> christoph_debian: it will probably work tomorrow if you try then
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, linkage?
<hyperair> all over the place =\
<sebner> bddebian: kay, testbuilding
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, ah
<hyperair> license is one
<MontelEdwards> oh, great.
<hyperair> policy is another
<MontelEdwards> Firefox dosent run on ubuntu 9.04
<MontelEdwards> 64bit
<hyperair> worked for me
<MontelEdwards> ( from mozilla.com)
<hyperair> oh
<ScottK> MontelEdwards: Not our problem then.
<hyperair> use the ppa
<sebner> huhi ScottK :)
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I know, i dont like that Shieritoko crap or whatever
<MontelEdwards> ScottK, I know, im just saying
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: that's the code name.
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: and now it's namoroka
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, oh. Well I still like the one from mozilla.org
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: your problem then.
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I know. Im not looking for help i am just saying.
<sebner> bdrung: you use now xmms2 as icon instead of the one provided in the ubuntu package, why?
<bdrung> sebner: because the provided one was only a copy of the xmms2 icon
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: rule of thumb: never whine on a developer channel unless you have a good reason to. and even then prepare to be flamed.
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, okay :)
<sebner> bdrung: ACKed, would you mind subscribing ubuntu-archive since LP is pretty b0rken for me
<bdrung> sebner: thanks. yes.
<bdrung> yes, i will do it and no, it wouldn't mind. ;)
<sebner> your're welcome :)
<bdrung> sebner: my workaround is: "update description / tags" -> "subscribe someone else"
<sebner> bddebian: heh, good to know. thx
<sebner> argh
<sebner> damn tab xD
<hyperair> heheh
<slytherin> if a library has do-as-you-wish license but source files does not contain any copyright/license headers is it likely to be accepted in archive?
<hyperair> isn't that an extremely liberal license?
<hyperair> from what i understand, as long as the files are certain to all be licensed under the same license as the top-level license file, it'll be fine
<hyperair> if there is code lifted from elsewhere there would be an issue
<slytherin> there is no code lifted form some other source. but as I said none of the files contain copyright/license header. I thought it is must for even to be considered for packaging.
<MontelEdwards> YES!
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I got it to work.
<MontelEdwards> thank god for source code
<hyperair> congrats
<hyperair> meanwhile i'm going to have to deal with this seemingly close sourced Xilinx ISE thing which segfaults at every turn.
<MontelEdwards> The codename is "Minefield"
<hyperair> wrong.
<hyperair> Minefield is what they call "firefox unstable"
<hyperair> and the codename is different for every unstable version
<hyperair> e.g. shiretoko, namoroko, etc
<hyperair> at one point of time, gran paradiso
<MontelEdwards> ah
<MontelEdwards> Well i dont like this
<hyperair> too bad for you. it's just a name =\
<MontelEdwards> None of the plugins work
<hyperair> oh.
<hyperair> use a nightly tester plugin
<hyperair> like i do
<hyperair> override the compatibility of all plugins
<hyperair> heheheh
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I built something i cloned with meurical. Im just going to build the 3.5* src and see if that works
<hyperair> have fun
<MontelEdwards> oh wait, how do you uninstall it hyperair
<hyperair> er sudo make uninstall?
<hyperair> since you didn't use a package manager
<MontelEdwards> i made it with sudo make install -f clients.mk, but sudo make uninstall -f clients.mk says make: *** No rule to make target `uninstall'.  Stop.
<hyperair> well too bad for you then
<hyperair> that's why people use package managers =)
<MontelEdwards> lol
<hyperair> now you're going to have to figure out what was installed where and rm it
<MontelEdwards> fun
<MontelEdwards> :X
<MontelEdwards> aha. hyperair it is make clean
<hyperair> ...make clean doesn't uninstall
<hyperair> or shouldn't anyway
<hyperair> just clean the source tree
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, i did.
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> i meant that make clean only cleans the source tree
<MontelEdwards> oh
<hyperair> rather than uninstalling
<MontelEdwards> I thought you meant clean the source tree
<MontelEdwards> I am hoping that when I make install 3.5.2 firefox it will overwrite those files
<MontelEdwards> Right now it is compiling
<hyperair> have fun
<stochastic> bdrung, the spelling issues in binaries that you found, do those need patches to fix them?  As for the binary not an elf or script, I have no idea what to do with that...  and I think you pointed out one other.
<bdrung> stochastic: the spelling error in the binary are caused by spelling errors in the source files. you need to find the spelling errors and fix them (using a patch).
<bdrung> stochastic: for the binary not an elf or script: you have to remove the execution bit from this file.
<MontelEdwards> omg omg omg omg
<bdrung> stochastic: you should add a homepage field to debian/control
<MontelEdwards> hyperair,
<hyperair> what now?
<bdrung> stochastic: and there was xjadeo: copyright-refers-to-symlink-license usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<stochastic> bdrung homepage filed is added now
<bdrung> ok
<MontelEdwards> If one was to get permission from Frostwire to package their software, could MOTU then?
<Laney> no
<Laney> that doesn't sound free
<stochastic> bdrung can you pastebin that full copyright refers to symlink warning so I can see what exactly it wants
<MontelEdwards> Laney, but it is GPL
<Laney> so you don't need permission
<bdrung> stochastic: they want that you link to a versioned one (e.g. GPL-2 or GPL-3)
<stochastic> but it's licensed under 2 or (at your option) any later
<bdrung> stochastic: here is the long description: http://lintian.debian.org/tags/copyright-refers-to-versionless-license-file.html
<hyperair> Laney: the issue is frostwire has a few GPL violations with prepacked binaries or something of that sort =\
<stochastic> bdrung which version should I point to?
<bdrung> stochastic: you should link the lowest version (GPL-2)
<Laney> so either they can't give you permission or it's not really gpl
<hyperair> mmhmm
<hyperair> bingo
<Laney> have they been contacted?
<hyperair> i think so
<hyperair> i'm not sure
<hyperair> bug #94011
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94011 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Frostwire" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94011
<stochastic> bdrung, thanks, I don't have time to fix all this right now, but will very soon.  thanks.
<bdrung> stochastic: yw
<stochastic> bdrung now that I read the lintian warning, it says "but the package does not appear to allow distribution under later versions of the license" but that's not the case, can we safely ignore it?
<MontelEdwards> Laney, I contacted them
<bdrung> stochastic: if you want to see all from lintian then run "lintian -iIE --pedantic" on the .changes file
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: did they say anything about their issues with binaries?
<ScottK> bdrung: I wouldn't bother with pedantic.
<stochastic> bdrung, ahh, I was wondering where you got the extra warnings from
<ScottK> Pedantic checks are really not ones we should be worrying about.
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, ill pastebin
<bdrung> stochastic: i would ignore it safely.
<ScottK> They pretty much all either have high false positive rates or are for very petty details.
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, she said that she was just about to push one out
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: push one what?
<MontelEdwards> a new .deb
<bdrung> stochastic: run something like "grep -ir copying *" on your file and check all files if they allow "any later"
<stochastic> bdrung there's one file that's only version2 but I explicitly state it in the copyright file
<hyperair> when is debian-qa's sf.net script going to be fixed?
<stochastic> bdrung is that enough to require the version 2 explicit link?
<Laney> hyperair: ask them/
<Laney> ?
<ScottK> Odds are an Ubuntu channel aren't the best place to get that answered hyperair.
<hyperair> yeah i know =\
<bdrung> stochastic: can you upload your current status?
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, http://codepad.org/DIVd8zXU
<Laney> I don't know why they talk about .debs, we don't care about that for packaging
<hyperair> yes, we don't care about debs
<hyperair> we care about source code
<Laney> and the issue is with their distributed binaries, you have to convince them to remove them
<stochastic> bdrung, uploading.  (I think the only change should be the homepage field)
<Laney> or find a way to work around them yourself if you want
<MontelEdwards> Laney, so what should I ask them?
<Laney> To please stop distributing binaries in their source tarballs
<MontelEdwards> uh. so like a tarball with non binaries?
<Laney> you should look at it yourself
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: http://pastebin.com/f1a12a651
<hyperair> that's a statistic of how many of which file types exist.
<Laney> there's a script suspicious-source in ubuntu-dev-tools
<hyperair> there is?
<slytherin> stochastic: licensecheck is a find program (or script) that you can use to check license of one ore more files.
<hyperair> interesting!
<hyperair> Laney: in all honesty, it seems like suspicious-source appears a little too suspicious.
<hyperair> Laney: it caught banshee's HACKING file which is basically a text file.
<MontelEdwards> Oh, so MOTU cant use their deb?
<Laney> it just works on whitelists
<MontelEdwards> .deb*
<Laney> no, not at all
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: i told you that earlier =.=
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I must of missed it
<MontelEdwards> sorry
 * hyperair sighs
<Laney> this tarball looks quite bad
<hyperair> extremely.
<Laney> MontelEdwards: In all honestly I suggest you give up :(
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> actually i think frostwire has an irc channel somewhere
<hyperair> what was the server again..
<MontelEdwards> Laney, lol
<Laney> but you should ask them where the source that they are required to provide by the GPL is
<MontelEdwards> Laney, basically what I said.
 * MontelEdwards thinks Java is way too hard
<Laney> ScottK: Is libboost1.38-dev what we're using now?
<ScottK> Laney: Yes.
<ScottK> All the older ones have been removed.
<Laney> alright
<Laney> fixing geordi
<MontelEdwards> Laney, I am guessing that MOTU can use their .debs for security purposes or what?
<Laney> no, forget about them
<Laney> they are binary packages and we work with source packages
<hyperair> Laney: you work with geordi?
<Laney> not really
<MontelEdwards> Laney, is there MOTU rules or something somewhere?
<Laney> I'm only seeing it because it's haskell
<hyperair> who maintains that bot anyway?
<hyperair> eh? geordi's haskell? but it runs c++ code!
<Laney> yeah!
<hyperair> strange thing
<hyperair> heheh
 * hyperair didn't know geordi existed in the repository
<hyperair> i only knew of a geordi that resides in ##c++
<Laney> never used it tbh
<Laney> http://qa.debian.org/popcon-png.php?packages=geordi&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1
<Laney> popular!
<Laney> MontelEdwards: Do you know what the difference between binary and source packages are?
<MontelEdwards> Laney, that was insulting. Of course i do
<Laney> well then you know why upstream's .debs are useless to us
<hyperair> Laney: that's not very popular.. only in the tens
<Laney> indeed
<slytherin> MontelEdwards: and why do you think java is too hard? :-)
 * hyperair doesn't think java is hard, just that it's stupid :-D
<MontelEdwards> slytherin, well it isnt as hard as Brainfuck
<hyperair> what are you saying? brainfuck's as easy as can get
<hyperair> to learn, that is
<hyperair> to actually use is a different matter
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, well yeah, uh if i want to type forever
<hyperair> hey there was another one that used only spaces and tabs
<hyperair> be thankful you're not using that.
<MontelEdwards> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
<slytherin> MontelEdwards: and why do you think java is too hard? :-)
<MontelEdwards> slytherin, because i am used to Python.
<MontelEdwards> thats why
 * slytherin declares python is too hard. :-P
<MontelEdwards> haha.
<hyperair> c++ is the easiest ;-)
 * Laney coughs
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, I have never looked at it
 * hyperair watches everybody simultaneously vomit blood
<MontelEdwards> oh, i thought you were serious
<Laney> http://www.haskell.org/~pairwise/intro/intro.html
<Laney> :)))))
<hyperair> i'll make you pay for my headphones if my brain comes through my ears and spoils them
<hyperair> anyway i've decided that my next language will be lisp, no matter what (emacs comes to mind)
<Laney> oh my
<MontelEdwards> Laney, i generally dont like languages that have to be compiled
<Laney> sexps are sick
<Laney> MontelEdwards: there are haskell interpreters
<MontelEdwards> anyone like C#?\
<Laney> indeed a common way to write is to test in ghci until it works and then compile at the end
<Laney> f#!
<hyperair> MontelEdwards: come join #debian-cli now
<hyperair> heheh
<MontelEdwards> hyperair, there is nobody there
<hyperair> ;-)
<hyperair> i forgot to mention which network it's on
 * hyperair conveniently disappears
<slytherin> MontelEdwards: it is on OFTC
<hyperair> you blabbermouth you ;-)
<bdrung> stochastic: if i change /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL into /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 lintian is happy
<bdrung> stochastic: the clean target does not remove all generated files
<bdrung> stochastic: instead of creating a xjadeo.desktop file line by line, you can create a debian/xjadeo.desktop file and simply copy it.
<rowinggolfer_> hi.
<rowinggolfer_> running karmic alpha 4, very impressed.
<rowinggolfer_> can't get keyboard shortcut app to launch though
<rowinggolfer_> the app is gnome-keybinding-properties
<rowinggolfer_> so the bug is not to be reported to launchpad?
<rowinggolfer_> bug 417527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417527 in gnome-control-center "gnome-keybinding-properties crashed with segmentation fault" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417527
<c_korn> I need to run an updater in postinst which requires user interaction in the console (pressing y or n , etc..) how can I forward this to the user ?
<geser> debconf
<geser> or do you want to run a programm in postinst which needs user interaction?
<c_korn> geser: yes, the program needs user interaction
<Mez> any MOTU release here?
<c_korn> a game downloads the data in postinst from the game server because the license forbids redistribution of the data. because the download can take some time I want to show the user the output of the updater. how can I do this ?
<chrisccoulson> c_korn - the flashplugin-nonfree package does something similar doesn't it? have you looked at that as an example?
<c_korn> never had that package installed. will have a look
<chrisccoulson> c_korn - if you're using wget to fetch the data, then that can display a progress indicator
<c_korn> no, the game has its own updater
<c_korn> output is like this : http://pastebin.com/d66ab4176
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-23
<dholbach> good morning
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: yes
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: did you get my mail?
<bilalakhtar> Thanks in advance!
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: you don't want to see my inbox :P (yes I did)
<bilalakhtar> hehe, thanks tumbleweed !
<bilalakhtar> TyT, I just thought if I sent to the right address, since you have so many
<AnAnt> Hello
<tumbleweed> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cosme/ubuntu/maverick/freeimage/freeimage/+merge/33347 <- is it possible to switch from orig.tar.gz -> bz2 without an upstream version bump?
<directhex> tumbleweed, i don't think so
<tumbleweed> that's what I thought :)
<bilalakhtar> +$(RM) libdumb.so
<bilalakhtar> ^^ is the only diff remaining from Debian after a merge
<bilalakhtar> what should I do
<bilalakhtar> ?
<bilalakhtar> I prefer sync and forward to Debian
<bilalakhtar> This diff removes the shared library after a clean
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: does that make any difference to the build? or is it only needed when working on the package?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: I have alreadyu requested sync
<tumbleweed> ok
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: no it doesn't make any difference to the build
<tumbleweed> that's what I'd do then
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: bhavani already requested sync, what happened there?
<tumbleweed> requestsync checks for existing syncs, but there is probably some lag in processing e-mail sync requests
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: I requested a new sync, ah it came bug #622630
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622630 in audacious-dumb (Ubuntu) "Sync audacious-dumb 0.57-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622630
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: should I mark mine dup?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: oh, well there you go. bhavani didn't use request sync :) shout at him :P
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: so would you prefer his or mine?
<tumbleweed> did you read his one?
<tumbleweed> it's incomplete because it didn't build
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: it builds here
<bilalakhtar> pbuilder
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: wait I am trying another ubild, this time with latest updates
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: BRB in 10 mins
<tumbleweed> ok, cool. mark his as a duplicate of yours (or vice versa)
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: I will see after this build succeeds
<bilalakhtar> it should
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: NO
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: BUILD HAS FAILED!
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: CANCEL ACK_SYNC!
<bilalakhtar> wierd
<tumbleweed> indeed it has
<bilalakhtar> it built on my PPA
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: it has? what do you mean by that?
<tumbleweed> it has failed
<bilalakhtar> goog
<bilalakhtar> *good
<tumbleweed> micahg: you subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to bug #614912, but in it you say you want two acks first. I only see one.
<and471> tumbleweed, thanks again for the sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614912 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Fix description after 10.1.53.64ubuntu2 update" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614912
<ari-tczew> hello tumbleweed, nice to see you :P I've got case for you :)
<tumbleweed> err, yeah?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: oh, I wanted ping you on bug agg, just you touch it
<ari-tczew> btw. tumbleweed, are you familiar with NMU
<ari-tczew> ?
<tumbleweed> in debian?
<AnAnt> I don't think that this diff: $(RM) <some binary file> is needed
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yea in Debian
<AnAnt> because the binary file , if it doesn't get cleaned, it won't be represented in debdiff anyways
<AnAnt> bilalakhtar: ^
<tumbleweed> AnAnt: yes, that's waht we were saying. But the package can't be synced because it doesn't build
<AnAnt> ah
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes, but I'm not a DD so I need sponsorship for NMUs
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I wanted to ask whether NMU phrase in debian/changelog in version is necessary?
<tumbleweed> I think policy requires it
<bilalakhtar> AnAnt: Back
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: answering to your comment, I forgot to did bzr add :(
<bilalakhtar> AnAnt: yes it doesn't build, so I am lookin at what can be done
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: it's a "must" in Debian Developer's Reference, section 5.11.2
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: you wrote: Unnecessary diversion from debian
<ari-tczew> I did this, because I remember that some sponsors poke me for fixing lintian's warnings
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes, we want to be able to sync again in the future
<ari-tczew> I know that we shouldn't change Debian package most
<tumbleweed> I used to prod sponsorees about lintian warnings when I was new to it, but I've become more conservative
<tumbleweed> if the lintian warning is about something serious, then deal with it (i.e. read the warnings)
<tumbleweed> but if not, ignore it. (Most packages generate a few warnings)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so do you suggest to drop these 2 changes?
<ari-tczew> in debian/control and debian/README.source
<tumbleweed> yes
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok, I'll drop it, but please don't remember this as my technical-issues. I just do it, because in the past I've been warned to fixing lintian's warning, ok?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I won't hold it against you :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok. I asked you about NMU because I'd like to try get first NMU through forwarding this change to Debian. what do you think about it?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: As for that FTBFS, I got it
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: sounds good
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: great
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: now confirming it by a build
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I'd like to prepare SRUs for other releases. are you interested in sponsoring?
<bilalakhtar> actually, recently the ubuntu devs splitted the audacious-dev package
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: sure
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: what do you think about adding both tags LP: # and Closes: # ?
<ari-tczew> I think that it's good.
<ari-tczew> into debian/changelog of course
<tumbleweed> if it's an ubuntu upload and the debian bug is linked to the lp one, it probably isn't necessary. For debian uploads one does see people doing this
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so do you want to see only LP: # ?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I don't mind, up to you
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: are sure about dropping Depends: ${misc:Depends} ?
<ari-tczew> is it nothing important?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: you can see if it's important, by seeing what gets substituted
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I've tested package and it can be installed without this change.
<tumbleweed> I'd assume that, yes
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed:  review:  Resubmit
<ari-tczew> :)
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: no it isn't working, I think I should let Bhavani work on this one; he came here first
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: ok, mark as dup
<bilalakhtar> done
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I understand "review: resubmit" to mean that the merge should be resubmitted. To actually resubmit, you set the status to resubmit (but I'm reviewing anyway, so rather don't)
<AnAnt> how can I unpack an .egg file ?
<tumbleweed> AnAnt: it's a zip file
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: so in future should I use 'comment only'?
<tumbleweed> no, if you set the status to resubmit, it creates a new merge proposal
<tumbleweed> i.e. it resubmits it
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: is it wrong?
<tumbleweed> is what wrong?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: setting resubmit
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no, but now it's unecessary, because I knew what you meant
<ari-tczew> aha
<AnAnt> tumbleweed: tried unzip, but didn't work
<tumbleweed> AnAnt: no clue then. Python eggs are definitly zip files
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok thanks for sponsoring, I'll prepare patches for lucid, karmic and jaunty
<Bachstelze> tumbleweed: should I make a debdiff against maverick for #622319 ? I see you unsubscribed sponsors
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: please use on IRC phrase: bug 622319
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622319 in opensc (Ubuntu Lucid) "Storing RSA key on EnterSafe smart card fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622319
<tumbleweed> Bachstelze: ubuntu has already diverged from debian (in maverick) so yes that sounds sensible
<tumbleweed> Bachstelze: obviously make sure debian has the patch, (and any other patches we have applied to their source)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: Artur: Please pass debian the correct patch, rather than just a LP Link - what do you mean?
<tumbleweed> the current debian patch contains a bug report, and a link to the lp bug
<tumbleweed> "the current debian bug report"
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: but it's not me do this...
<tumbleweed> what do you mean?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: please look at field "From:" on Debian's bug
<ari-tczew> it's not me
<tumbleweed> yes? that doesn't mean you can't contribute a fix
<ari-tczew> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=575620
<ubottu> Debian bug 575620 in libagg-dev "libagg-dev: no #include for INT_MAX and abs" [Minor,Open]
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I always sending a patch to Debian, but after sponsorship in Ubuntu.
<ari-tczew> You said that this "only give link to LP" is my change, but it is not.
<tumbleweed> ok, that's great. I didn't say that change was yours
<tumbleweed> or at least I didn't mean to imply that
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok, no problem. Scarely after sponsorship in Ubuntu, because then I'm sure that my patch is correct.
<tumbleweed> that works for me
<ari-tczew> :)
 * ari-tczew is hungry, going away. Later back to work.
<Bachstelze> tumbleweed: debdiff for Maverick posted, should I resubscribe -sponsors?
<tumbleweed> Bachstelze: normally yes, but I'll look now, so don't worry
<Bachstelze> okay, thanks
<tumbleweed> Bachstelze: any reason why you are removing dead code?
<tumbleweed> it seems somewhat unecessary
<Bachstelze> because the upstream commit did it, but I guess we could keep it
<tumbleweed> ok, that's fine
<tumbleweed> It would be good if you linked to the upstream commit in the patch header. http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ is a good standard for describing patches
<ari-tczew> who is there a Debian Developer?
<Bachstelze> tumbleweed: then there are two upstream commits modifying the same file, should I make a separate debian/patch with header for each one?  I think I read in the packaging guide that you should avoid having several patches modifying the same file
<tumbleweed> No, you can just link to both of them
<Bachstelze> tumbleweed: done
<Bachstelze> argh, no, for some reason the second patch was left out
<Bachstelze> there
<lucas> LP#518122 needs someone with some time (i.e not me) to do a no-changes upload to -updates
<ari-tczew> is it require FFe? bug 622626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622626 in nlog (Ubuntu) "Please sync nlog 1.0+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622626
<AnAnt> Laney: ^
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: -1 -> -2 is *probably* ok
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I'm confused. I remember discussion about FeatureFreeze that it's time for only bug-fixes upload.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I haven't looked at the changelog. Is it a bugfix? (looks)
<AnAnt> it fixes a couple of Debian bugs
<ari-tczew> Laney: can I get to know your opinion?
<tumbleweed> none of those seem serious enough, but yes, ask Laney
<devfil> ari-tczew, it doesn't
<ari-tczew> so I guess that it can't be passed without FFe
<devfil> ari-tczew, it doesn't require a FFe
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no it doesn't need one, the question is, is the upload necessary / helpful?
<ari-tczew> devfil: and can be synced?
<devfil> tumbleweed, it is
<devfil> tumbleweed, next time (maverick+1) the package will be autosynced so it's ok
<devfil> ari-tczew, yes
<tumbleweed> devfil: agreed re autosync, but I haven't looked at a debdiff, and some people have been grumbling about almost-no-change syncs
<ari-tczew> devfil, tumbleweed, AnAnt: I remember that some sponsors said me that syncs are not good during FF because it's getting some resources etc...
<devfil> tumbleweed, looks like there are fixes
<ari-tczew> personally I don't want fight with syncs during FeatureFreeze, it's OK for me, but now I'm confused and I'd like get to know opinion so loving Feature Freeze Laney
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: if uploaded with syncpackage (which still seems to be a grey area), I don't see the difference between fixing a bug with a sync or an ubuntu1 upload. Except that the sync saves us work in the future
<Bachstelze> tumbleweed: what's in the Ubuntu-Bug DEP3 field? (or where can I get it, it's not on archive.ubuntu.com yet)
<tumbleweed> Bachstelze: I added this below your Origin header: "Bug-Ubuntu: http://launchpad.net/bugs/622319" - you can see the upload here: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opensc
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I agree with you, but as I said, I'm confused.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622319 in opensc (Ubuntu Lucid) "Storing RSA key on EnterSafe smart card fails" [Undecided,New]
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: people may be concerned about new changes from debian causing regressions
<tumbleweed> devfil: seeing as you are here, did you see bug 620280? (I subscribed you)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620280 in wxwidgets2.8 (Ubuntu) "tunapie crashes" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620280
<devfil> tumbleweed, it's pretty useless to subscribe me to a bug, just send me an email next time
<tumbleweed> devfil: aah, I thought LP sends an e-mail when you subscribe someone
<devfil> tumbleweed, yes, but I receive a lot of emails from launchpad so I can miss someone
<tumbleweed> right, that's why I'm pinging you :)
<devfil> tumbleweed, will fix this ASAP (tomorrow) ;) thank you
<smallfoot-> package Firefox 4 beta and put it in repo
<micahg> tumbleweed: sorry, I should've commented, you can be the second ack, I gave up on the review/papercuts team
<micahg> smallfoot-: it's on our list, chrisccoulson is actually fixing up Firefox 4 packaging so we can do that
<micahg> *our = Ubuntu Mozilla Team
<smallfoot-> awesome!
<smallfoot-> will it be in maverick?
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot-, no
<smallfoot-> then where the hell will it be?
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot-, it will be in a PPA
<smallfoot-> oh
<smallfoot-> long time ago ubuntu had firefox 2 installed by default, but in repo was available firefox 3
<smallfoot-> i think 4 should be in repo
<Bachstelze> smallfoot-: we're past Feature Freeze for Maverick IIRC
<Bachstelze> so no new packages
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot- we aren't shipping a beta browser in the archive. we'll only be shipping a single version of firefox at any one time
<chrisccoulson> but it will be available in a PPA (and the daily builds are already available)
<smallfoot-> oh cool
<smallfoot-> fair enough
<smallfoot-> even though they ought to backport firefox 4
<micahg> smallfoot-: who is they?
<chrisccoulson> "they"?
<smallfoot-> canonical or whoever is responsible of putting stuff in the repository
<micahg> smallfoot-: we'll probably be backporting 4.1 or whatever is after 4.0, but that only happens when the default browser is EOL
<smallfoot-> oh
<smallfoot-> cuz it will be shit boring for ppl to run Firefox 3 on Ubuntu when all their friends on Windows have cool new Firefox 4
<micahg> !language | smallfoot-
<ubottu> smallfoot-: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<micahg> smallfoot-: that's what the PPA is for
<smallfoot-> normal ppl dont use ppa, its only advanced users
<micahg> smallfoot-: no, normal people do use PPAs, if they have something that's wanted
<ari-tczew> smallfoot-: PPA is not hard to use
<smallfoot-> i dont even know what PPAs exist
<ari-tczew> you can also create your own repository!
<vish> micahg: hmm?  "I gave up on the review/papercuts team" what do you mean?
<smallfoot-> no cuz packaging stuff in ubuntu is impossible, you have to read 100 pages of stuff, download 100 stuffs, etc
<micahg> vish: waiting for 2 ACKs like we discussed
<micahg> smallfoot-: we do the packaging, you just install
<ari-tczew> nothing never was easy like snap at start
<vish> micahg: i dont understand , i already told you if its just to make it more specific , go ahead.. you hadnt replied on the bug and i had to poke you yesterday , not sure what else i'm supposed to do..
<ari-tczew> smallfoot-: do you want use PPA? you have to only add lines to /etc/apt/sources.list
<ari-tczew> you don;t need package if you don't want ...
<smallfoot-> i would not manually edit configuraiton files with a text editor
<smallfoot-> neither would anyone else that is not a nerd
<ari-tczew> smallfoot-: do you use gnome?
<smallfoot-> yes
<ari-tczew> smallfoot-: then you can use graphic editor for /etc/apt/sources.list
<tumbleweed> also, you can add PPAs via software sources
<ari-tczew> System -> Administration -> sources software
<smallfoot-> yes
<tumbleweed> but smallfoot- is right, PPAs aren't for run-of-the-mill users, and that's correct. They can use the version of firefox that our mozilla team recommends and provides.
<smallfoot-> then they will be stuck with firefox 3, while their friends with windows all can enjoy firefox 4
<tumbleweed> smallfoot-: we can't provide the latest version of everything *and* stability, the two don't go hand in hand
<micahg> smallfoot-: that's the nature of the distro, stable releases don't change unless there are extenuating circumstances
<smallfoot-> but im sure firefox 4  is perfectly stable on windows 7
<smallfoot-> how come you can run firefox 4 perfectly stable on windows 7, but not on ubuntu?
<micahg> smallfoot-: that's not the question, there are other apps that depend on a certain series of Firefox
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot-, stability is not the only criteria. because it's still in beta, it doesn't have any security updates
<smallfoot-> micahg, like which apps?
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot-, "apt-cache rdepends xulrunner-1.9.2" ?
<smallfoot-> chrisccoulson, thats why firefox3 should be installed by default, and firefox4 optional in repo
<smallfoot-> xulrunner isnt firefox
<chrisccoulson> smallfoot-, yes it is
<chrisccoulson> it's exactly the same codebase
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: bug 393923 needs some love :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in agg (Debian) "agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h missing #includes <limits.h> and <stdlib.h> so it doesn't compile on new GCC versions" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393923
<micahg> smallfoot-: we have 2 people working on Mozilla stuff at the moment, that's all, there are not enough resources to support 2 versions of Firefox in the repos, in addition that causes other problems with defaults/updates/conflicts
<smallfoot-> ok
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: tasks approved
<lfaraone> micahg: although pyxpcom is being packaged separately in Debian, you want it to have a maintainer who will keep it up-to-date with Firefox updates before you include it in Maverick, right?
 * lfaraone is writing an email summarizing the Sugar browser situation, and wants to make sure he understands it correctly.
<micahg> lfaraone: most likely yes since it seems to have been abandoned upstream, glandium said he'd talk to the Sugar team
<chrisccoulson> micahg - did you have a look at the packaging?
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I only had time to do a test build, not look in depth, and it builds itself at least with our xulrunner with the one caveat I told you about
<micahg> the next test would be to compile something against it
<chrisccoulson> is it installing components in to /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.2.8/components?
 * micahg checks
<micahg> chrisccoulson: yep, so you're right, we'll need to figure out a way around that
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we'll need to build those components in to an extension and install it that way i think
<chrisccoulson> that should work
<micahg> chrisccoulson: well, the problem is extensions don't have the same API access as pyxpcom
<chrisccoulson> it should be ok. it's shipping binary XPCOM components, and you can ship those in extensions and have the same level of access as you normally would
<Bachstelze> lfaraone: since you're a DD, can I have a PM please? I'm lookin for a sponsor for my package in Debian
<lfaraone> micahg: I tested pyxpcom and it worked with sugar-browse-activity-*, at least.
<lfaraone> Bachstelze: sure, although rarely are such things worthy of a PM rather than just public discussion :)
<Bachstelze> well, we're on an Ubuntu channel :p
<micahg> lfaraone: that's good at least
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: are you DD?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: that's what people keep telling me.
<lfaraone> micahg: oh, Mike Hommey == glandium. Right, he already sent us a mail (to debian-olpc-devel) asking us to test his package, which we did.
<lfaraone> micahg: speaking of which, do you have a link to the dsc of his package? I can't seem to find it on mozilla.debian.net anymore.
 * micahg wonders if it's past new
<micahg> lfaraone: http://people.debian.org/~glandium/pyxpcom_0.0~hg20100212-1.dsc
<lfaraone> aha.
<lfaraone> If I have a local copy of the Ubuntu archive, can I mount that in pbuilder as the cached apt contents
<lfaraone> *?
<james_w> lfaraone: not if it is laid out like a normal mirror of the Ubuntu archive, as the cached apt contents are a flat directory structure I believe
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: but you can configure your pbuilder not to use a cache
<lfaraone> james_w: I used apt-mirror.
<tumbleweed> james_w: correct re structures
<lfaraone> hmmm. could I have it mount the directory containing the mirror as an extra dir and just point to that folder in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<tumbleweed> that'd probably work
<tumbleweed> personally, I just point my pbuilders at my local apt-cacher-ng (and have them not cache debs themselves)
 * lfaraone likes to be able to build packages without internet access, say, on the train, so it's useful to have a full copy of the archive.
<james_w> lfaraone: yes, that would work. It would copy the packages around unless you disable the cache dir. I don't know if apt is sensible enough to just use the files on disk if it is a local mirror and there is no cache
<lfaraone> *cobwuilder
<lfaraone> *cowbuilder
<tumbleweed> james_w: it is if you use file:// urls
<lfaraone> hm. another thing I was looking at, I see that people use sbuild with aufs to mimick what is used on the buildds. Would it be possible to go further and use sbuild + tempfs with aufs? (so that the unpacking etc doesn't need to be done on the disk, it can just be done in RAM and discarded afterwards)
<lfaraone> *tmpfs
<tumbleweed> lfaraone: I build in tmpfs, yes. But you need >4G of ram for most packages (haven't tried openoffice :) )
<lfaraone> tumbleweed: hehe. I've 4G myself.
<tumbleweed> tmpfs on /var/cache/pbuilder/build type tmpfs (rw,size=5G)
<tumbleweed> haven't run into issues with that
<lfaraone> micahg: hmm. is it a known issue that xulrunner-1.9.2 stalls on "Setting up" when installing?
<micahg> lfaraone: no...it shouldn't
<micahg> which release?
<lfaraone> micahg: on Maverick I attempted to build pyxpcom in pbuilder and xulrunner-bin was using 100% CPU. (and I left it there for an hour and a half)
<micahg> weird, I built it locally without issue, can you login and see where it's stuck?
<lfaraone> micahg: how can I determine that? (I'm running cowbuilder --login right now and it froze again while Setting up xulrunner-1.9.2)
<micahg> can you do ps in cowbuilder env?
<lfaraone> micahg: "top" (run from outside the enviornment) shows xulrunner-bin using 100%cpu.
<lfaraone> micahg: the command in question is "/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.2.8/xulrunner-bin --gre-version"
<micahg> lfaraone: what's the parent process?
<lfaraone> micahg: it seems to be calling itself?  http://sprunge.us/SaJc
<micahg> lfaraone: what's above that
<lfaraone> micahg: "/bin/sh /usr/bin/xulrunner-1.9.2 --gre-version"
<micahg> lfaraone: hmm
<lfaraone> micahg: which is called by "/bin/sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/xulrunner-1.9.2.postinst configure"
<micahg> lfaraone: maybe it was a bad install
<lfaraone> micahg: bad install? I just did "cowbuilder --login" and installed the packages, it has happened all 3 times I've tried it.
<lfaraone> micahg: I can rebuild my cowbuilder chroot if you want.
<micahg> lfaraone: oh, we should look into that then...
<lfaraone> micahg: I'll file a bug. I'm debootstrapping a new chroot just to verify it's not something specific to cowbuilder.
<micahg> lfaraone: like I said, I had no problem in pbuilder
<micahg> but I"m also on lucid with a maverick pbuilder
<ari-tczew> error: expected ')' before ';' token
<ari-tczew> what happens?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: uh, there's a syntax error.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: and how can I fix it?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: by using proper syntax.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: you should probably show us your source if you want us to help you determine the cause of the erorr.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: http://paste.ubuntu.com/482514/
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: did it say what line the problem was on?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: ../include/agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h:342: error: expected ')' before ';' token
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: buildlog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/482515/
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: no idea, that's odd.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: I'm thinking about includes
<lfaraone> micahg: huh... it works in a chroot. Time to recreate my cowbuilder enviorn then :)
<micahg> lfaraone: :)
<neeraj> lfaraone: hi
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I need your help :(
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: patching agg in karmic won't work. the possibly way is backport from lucid.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: but lucid is waiting for sponsor
<tumbleweed> one can always just not bother with karmic :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you mean end work after fix lucid?
<tumbleweed> yeah, if it isn't trivially fixable
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I've spent half day on fixing karmic and no result :(
<lfaraone> micahg: it freezes when I use cowbuilder even after rebuilding. It looks like a cowbuilder-specific bug, is it worth reporting? (ie,is it a problem that should be fixed in cowbuilder or in xulrunner?)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: is this version ok? *ubuntu1~9.10 ?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: follow the security team's number policy
<ari-tczew> okay
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: oh, done! \o/
<micahg> lfaraone: idk about cowbuilder
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: do you have permission for reopen bug?
<ari-tczew> from Won't fix
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I wrote 21:08 (UTC+2h) that it's done :P
<ari-tczew> I'm testing again to be sure
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: which package has grab-udd-merge ?
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: trunk from stefanor bzr?
<shadeslayer> does it do syncs as well?
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: not packaged: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/grab-udd-merge (direct: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/grab-udd-merge/download/stefanor%40ubuntu.com-20100807125513-uo4gyakmpvc5k3r6/grabuddmerge-20100715005242-yrbierkfi6zix8mj-1/grab-udd-merge )
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: merge tool for syncs? :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: no, ack-sync
<shadeslayer> need a sync from debian experimental without going through madison
<shadeslayer> madison -> highly outdated db
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: syncpackage ?
<shadeslayer> i dont have upload rights :)
<shadeslayer> requestsync goes through madison :P
<micahg> ari-tczew: doesn't syncpackage use madison?
<tumbleweed> write a manual sync request?
<micahg> that's what I did
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: will madison ever be up to date for this package?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: idk... its in debian experimental
<shadeslayer> i think ill have to write a manual sync request
<micahg> yes, madison can show experimental
<shadeslayer> http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=kmymoney <<
<shadeslayer> currently out of date for 5 days
<micahg> shadeslayer: right, Debian's having some HW issues with their QA boxes
<shadeslayer> micahg: any ideas if they will fix soonish ? :)
<micahg> shadeslayer: nope, but they are working on it
<shadeslayer> might as well write a request manually
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: the udd rmadison endpoint seems to be up to date
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: edit your requestsync :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: what do you mean udd rmadison?
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: erm.. dont understand :)
<tumbleweed> rmadison -u udd kmymoney
<shadeslayer> ah yes
<micahg> tumbleweed: I get cannot resolve host
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: what do i edit in /usr/bin/requestsync ?
<shadeslayer> or do i edit something else? :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: hmm, looking
<shadeslayer> there is this one line
<shadeslayer>  # try rmadison
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: add RMADISON_URL_MAP_DEBIAN=http://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/madison.cgi to .devscripts
<ajmitch> sometimes it's just as fast to write up manual sync requests
<shadeslayer> ajmitch: but this is more fun ;)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: which file? :P
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: ~/.devscripts
<shadeslayer> oic
<shadeslayer> \o/
 * shadeslayer hugs tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> heh
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> thanks tumbleweed
 * ajmitch waits very very patiently for this laptop
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: next changes needs some love (tasks also)
 * shadeslayer hops up and down
<shadeslayer> look : v
<shadeslayer> http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/08/23/11-04-ubuntu-developer-summit-announced/
<debuilder> hey guys i want to build a python package
<debuilder> but i dunno whether to use distutils or setuptools
<debuilder> which one should i use
<ebroder> debuilder: If you don't know you need setuptools, probably go with distutils. It's simpler
<debuilder> and I just include stuff in the cdbs class?
<simar> shadeslayer: heya!! there?
<shadeslayer> simar: yes... rolling on a caffeine high
<simar> shadeslayer: same here ...
<simar> shadeslayer: i was reading you article http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/27/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t17:01
<shadeslayer> alrighty
<simar> shadeslayer: I got this output while authorizing the ubuntu-dev-tools .. i think it got some errors .. http://paste.ubuntu.com/482614/
<simar> shadeslayer: is that ok
<shadeslayer> doesnt look so
<shadeslayer> simar: happens every time?
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> ubuntu pastebin got a overhaul :P
<simar> shadeslayer: kk
<shadeslayer> whut?
<shadeslayer> can you run it again?
<simar> shadeslayer: wait
<simar> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/482614/  ....same output
<ajmitch> simar: is your system clock correct?
 * shadeslayer was about to say that
<ajmitch> I've had problems recently where it skewed by more than 15 minutes & caused issues with OAuth
<shadeslayer> simar: last line of traceback
<shadeslayer> Invalid nonce/timestamp: Timestamp appears to come from bad system clock
<simar> ajmitch: In launchpad my time zone is UTC while here I have Indian time ..
<ajmitch> that shouldn't be a problem
<ajmitch> what does 'date -u' say?
<simar> ajmitch: oh my god, I had lived a day back ... ;-))
<simar> ajmitch: I hope it will work now.. let me chck
<shadeslayer> hehe :P
<simar> ajmitch: shadeslayer Mon Aug 23 21:55:13 UTC 2010 is that right ...
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> or around about there
<shadeslayer> Mon Aug 23 21:57:58 UTC 2010
<shadeslayer> so yes
<simar> Credentials successfully written to /home/simar/.cache/lp_credentials/simar-write_public.txt. yoyo!!!
<ajmitch> great
<shadeslayer> :)
<simar> shadeslayer: ajmitch : guess what has happened, if you dinnt come to my rescue .... this would had been my last day with PPAs .. ;-))
<shadeslayer> hehe
<simar> continuing ...
<shadeslayer> simar: btw id suggest one thing if your reading that log
<shadeslayer> have a look at the bottom 2-3 lines
<simar> shadeslayer: ya..
<shadeslayer> i made a mistake during the session
<simar> shadeslayer: oh.
<shadeslayer> otherwise its a pretty good session, i made every possible detail available
<simar> shadeslayer: Hey, I'm enjoying reading it...but wait!! pkg-kde-tools. I'm using gnome. Does it make a difference
<shadeslayer> no it doesnt... thats the beauty of it
<shadeslayer> its just a collection of scritps
<shadeslayer> *scripts
<simar> k
<simar> shadeslayer: when do you sleep ..
<shadeslayer> probably not tonight
<shadeslayer> might do some 8085 programming :P
<simar> shadeslayer: oh,, great soul..
<simar> shadeslayer: wait,, you work on embedded
<shadeslayer> uh no... basically ECE student ;)
<simar> shadeslayer: I'm working on atmega8, 16 and motorola mc9s12x256 and 512..
<simar> shadeslayer: if you need any help .. i'm here ..
<simar> shadeslayer: :))
<shadeslayer> your on embedded :P
<shadeslayer> hehe
<shadeslayer> not really... the mnemonics are quite easy as of now :P
<shadeslayer> were just doing the basics... but im yet to grasp the concept of LXI and LDLH properly :P
<simar> shadeslayer: my bed at this time is tucked with electronics..
<shadeslayer> hehe :)
<simar> shadeslayer: LXI and LDLH, I hope these are registers ..
<shadeslayer> yeah
<shadeslayer> lets not make this OT now :P
<simar> shadeslayer: oh, yeah,...
<shadeslayer> im off for a while...
<simar> shadeslayer: wait by the way i'm making a project for kvpy..
<shadeslayer> simar: are you following my session line to line?
<shadeslayer> kvpy?
<simar> shadeslayer: ya ..
<simar> shadeslayer: kvpy search on net .. by the way which yr??
<shadeslayer> alright, since the package is choqok, you may go to #kubuntu-devel if you have questions
<shadeslayer> simar: 5 th sem ( 3rd year )
<simar> shadeslayer: k,, thanks
<shadeslayer> + and nobody here answers
<simar> shadeslayer: then you need not search..
<simar> shadeslayer: its upto 2nd yr
<shadeslayer> hehe :P
<simar> shadeslayer: excepts you.. you really help to help ... great soul ..
<shadeslayer> ^_^
<simar> wow now this is last .. i will also try this
<shadeslayer> im thinking of applying for kubuntu-dev once i can get project neon up
<simar> ^_^
<simar> shadeslayer: if i can help(for you app) someway, please tell, i really want to..
<shadeslayer> you could comment on it... but idk if they will take that into account or not :P
<shadeslayer> havent made a application yet :D
<simar> shadeslayer: k, but i will comment ... something is better that nothing (my case))
<shadeslayer> :P
<shadeslayer> sure
<simar> shadeslayer: you were applying for moto .. don't you
<shadeslayer> yeah, but i havent contributed to universe enough
 * micahg is thinking about applying for MOTU after UDS
<simar> shadeslayer: oh, i c..
<shadeslayer> otoh... ive contributed alot to main :P
<simar> micahg: but i though you are **motu
<shadeslayer> mostly kubuntu specific stuff
<shadeslayer> simar: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+related-software << my list of uploaded packages
<simar> shadeslayer: i'm not very familiar with these terms literarly main, universe .. so much
<shadeslayer> micahg: care to explain ^... im off for noq
<simar> shadeslayer: i'm seeing that
<shadeslayer> *now
<simar> shadeslayer: thanks
<simar> micahg: you turn now .. if you are free ..
<shadeslayer> most significant difference is that, main is supported by canonical, universe is not :P
<micahg> simar: well, 1. I'm not MOTU, I have upload rights for the mozilla package set
<micahg> simar: main and restricted have security support from canonical for the life of release
<simar> micahg: good..
<micahg> simar: universe and multiverse are supported by the community
<simar> micahg: k
<simar> micahg: what are these all ... what i think is that, these are places where packages are stored . ..or these are just virtual terms ??
<micahg> simar: they are in essence super package sets
<micahg> main and universe are freely redistributable and able to build from source, restricted and multiverse are freely distributable with binary components
<simar> micahg: ok, i think i got the relevant part .. how can i contribute to these .. or should i ask it after reading the ppa session from shadeslayer
<ari-tczew> micahg: where is UDS?
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: orlando florida
<micahg> simar: well, there are sponsors for those that can't upload packages
<ari-tczew> arhg, I wanted ask when :P
<micahg> Oct 25-29
<shadeslayer> hehe :P
<simar> micahg: k, and what should i ask these sponsers to upload .. is it bug fixes .. patches
<simar> micahg: or something more than that
<micahg> simar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<ari-tczew> simar: are you interested in security issues?
<simar> ari-tczew: ya i want something to work.. but what next ..
<ari-tczew> simar: what expierence with packaging have you got?
<simar> ari-tczew: ya, i have fixed some ftbfs and made patches ..
<simar> ari-tczew: i hope i can learn more .. if i get chance
<ari-tczew> simar: hehe, "get chance" ... every motivated person will got chance :)
<ajmitch> the opportunities are there
<ajmitch> there's more than enough stuff that needs fixing
<simar> ari-tczew: i hope so..
<simar> ajmitch: i wish if you can be a bit more specific .. actually i'm very familiar with *stuff*
<ari-tczew> simar: at start in contributing to security sector, I'd invite you to testing patches :)
<simar> ari-tczew: good start :))
<ajmitch> simar: it's hard to be more specific in such a broad field :)
<ari-tczew> you can review what are looks procedures, then you will could prepare yourself patches
<ajmitch> security fixes are a good place to start, certainly
<simar> ajmitch: i hope if you can direct me somewhere to a link..
<micahg> simar: find packages you care about/use and then check for CVEs
<micahg> that's a good place to start
<ari-tczew> I offer instruction for fixing security issues, simar
<simar> micahg: what is CVEs
<ari-tczew> !CVE
<simar> ari-tczew: k
<simar> !CVE
<ajmitch> the bot is being a bit slow today?
<micahg> !cve
<simar> !cve
<ari-tczew> not found :(
<micahg> simar: common vulnerabilities and exposure
<ari-tczew> simar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
<simar> micahg: k, i got it
<ajmitch> argh, nearly 300MB of updates to grab for maverick
<ajmitch> this'll take awhile
<simar> ari-tczew: i think i know what are taking exactly ... but where should i start looking and how to do security testing .. i mean there are tools, as of i know..
<ari-tczew> simar: please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam
<ari-tczew> simar: tomorrow I'll prepare some patches and we can talk about testing, ok?
<ari-tczew> ATM I don't have any patches ready for testing.
<simar> ari-tczew: i had a hacking workshop here, there the tutor demonstrated exactly this .. he gained access to windows shell using some tool that displays all vulnerabilities and how to target them .. i had a taste of it ..
<ari-tczew> simar: please come on channel #ubuntu-hardened
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-24
<shadeslayer> simar: ever heard of the gnusim8085?
<shadeslayer> i made this program on it : http://pastebin.com/81qsAbdG
<shadeslayer> but im getting Execution branched to invalid memory location <6H>. Execution will be stopped! << please reply in PM
<simar> shadeslayer: no idea in assembly. I work in c
<simar> shadeslayer: there?
<simar> shadeslayer: oh sorry .. soo jaa kaaka .. shhh!!!
<ebroder> micahg: Still around?
<micahg> ebroder: yes
<ebroder> I'm looking at bug #622914, but I can't find those two CVEs anywhere. Is there an announcement somewhere?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622914 in tmux (Ubuntu) "Sync tmux 1.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622914
<ebroder> Sorry - wrong bug. bug #622900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622900 in phpmyadmin (Ubuntu) "Please sync phpmyadmin 4:3.3.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622900
<micahg> ebroder: in the changelog
<micahg> ebroder: I figured since it was the devel release that would be enough, I plan on a full bug with all the info for the SRUs
<ebroder> micahg: Yeah, yeah - I see the numbers. I want to know what the actual vulnerabilities are
<ebroder> Curiosity as much as anything else
<micahg> ebroder: http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/security/PMASA-2010-5.php
<ebroder> Ah - XSS bug. Boring :-P
<nigelb> heh
<ebroder> micahg: Anyway, yeah - I agree. Security microrelease == no FFe. I'll ACK it
<micahg> ebroder: thanks
<micahg> there will probably be a 3.3.6 before Maverick release, but we'll see if it's bug fix or features
<ebroder> Can you punt the ubuntu-sponsors subscription? I've been too lazy to get my membership renewed :)
<micahg> ebroder: sure
<Obsidian1723> anyone here know about packaging deb files? I'm in the process of reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete but this is more of a question of, "is this the best way to do it?" than anything else. I want to find the best way to distribute images for wallpapers, fonts, document files, and also an install-setup.sh for setting up new installs. Basically the idea is to do a new Ubuntu install, add the PPA, update it
<Obsidian1723> and then the file downloads and does all of the work. Is this the best way to do that? One issue that may arise is the shell script does reqire some user input to it. Forgive me. I am not a programmer, new to packaging, etc. Just want some feedback on my method really. Right now I have an alternaitve Ubuntu ISO with a kickstart file that does a wget to.dropbox.com -O- | sh and it works, but it's crude.
<micahg> directhex: do you know what linux-vdso.so.1 is?
<jetienne> q. apt-get doesnt support http proxy ?
<jetienne> due fixed it
<jetienne> sudo export http_proxy and not just export
<directhex> micahg, if memory serves, it's an imaginary library (i.e. it's part of the kernel)
<directhex> used to be linux-gate
<micahg> directhex: k, I was wondering if that's why moonlight was crashing due to an unavailable lib
<dholbach> good morning
<simon-o> tumbleweed, I'm not quite sure, what the FFE for bug 622914 would look like. I would like to get this in, because tmux 1.3 has some nice features http://tmux.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tmux/tmux/CHANGES (like mouse-wheel support) and fixes many bugs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622914 in tmux (Ubuntu) "Sync tmux 1.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/622914
<tumbleweed> simon-o: just say excatly that and subscribe ubuntu-release (bug numbers are good)
<simon-o> tumbleweed, thanks. will do :)
<AnAnt> Hello
<bilalakhtar> If a package has a dfsg bit, and has no ubuntu changes, and I want to upgrade it in Ubuntu only (special case), what should be done ? Can I just remove the dfsg bit and mark -0ubuntu1 ?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: +dfsg means a repack
<tumbleweed> so if you are upgrading it in ubuntu, do the same repack
<tumbleweed> (there should be a get-orig-source rule to do it)
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ok, got it
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: yes there is
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: so I should go ahead and just do as I do normally?
<bilalakhtar> no
<bilalakhtar> I understood
<bilalakhtar> now
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: yeah except that you are using the repacka you created, not the upstream tarball
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: ok so I will need to repackage, will I need to upload the repack somewhere else?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do you plan join motu?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: no, the sponsor can do the same repack
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yes
<persia> Hrm?  If there's a repack in Debian, it's best to use the *exact same* binary artifacts that Debian produced for the repack, rather than re-repacking it.
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: any particular date?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: it happened long ago
<bilalakhtar> There's good news, people
<bilalakhtar> No need, since the repack was done to remove a file
<bilalakhtar> Upstream has removed it now
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: so I am dumping the dfsg bit in the version. Okay?
<bilalakhtar> BRB
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: what happened long ago?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: why?
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: oh, I see
<tumbleweed> nm
<tumbleweed> persia: bilalakhtar was talking about a new upstream release
<persia> Ah, right.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: The repack happened long ago
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: I asked when do you plan sign up on meeting...
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: In the september 14 meeting
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: By then, I hope to gain a little bit more experience
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: do some security fixes :)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: are you busy?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: afraid so, yes
<ari-tczew> aha
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Like merges, in package upgrades also should I outline all debian/ubuntu changes in the changelog?
<bilalakhtar> I have added a message in changelog why I dropped the repack
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: in merges you don't have to outline debian changes, but yes you should always outline *your* changes in the changelog
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: in merges we outline Ubuntu changes
<tumbleweed> yes, the changes you are applying
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: here I am outlining non-upstream changes
<bilalakhtar> yes
<bilalakhtar> building now
<bilalakhtar> Built!
<bilalakhtar> Hey! When I ran update-maintainer, it added the old maintainer to the uploaders! Is it right?
<Laney> I don't think it should touch the Uploaders field
<bilalakhtar> No, I saw it the wrong way
<bilalakhtar> It did it correct
<Laney> (nor does it from the code)
<Laney> ok
<bilalakhtar> I was actually looking at the DSC
 * bilalakhtar will leave now
<zul> we have a team meeting today dont we?
<ari-tczew> zul: which meeting? DMB?
<zul> oops...wrong channel
<james_w> of the web tools that we have that support adding comments on packages (e.g. merge-o-matic) do those comments persist with new versions?
<james_w> i.e. is the comment field blank after a new version is uploaded, or does it keep the same value as it had before?
<Laney> IIRC they were reset
<Laney> but you can get the source of mom
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> getting it is one thing, answering that question for sure is another
<james_w> from what I've seen it looks like they aren't reset but I'm not sure
<Laney> I wonder what happened to merges.ubuntu.com/xxx.html
<james_w> ENOSPC I believe
<Laney> is there an RT about it?
<james_w> don't know
<Laney> anyway it makes sense to me for them to be linked to versions, as the kind of things they were used for were transient
<Laney> bug numbers and assignment tracking mainly
<james_w> it appears that they persist
<tumbleweed> that's my memory of them, you'd often come across comments that related to previous merges
<Laney> if that's true, then I feel retrospectively bad for putting bug numbers in the comments ;)
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, working on the sponsorship queue?
<fabrice_sp> (I won on bug 623358 by 4 minutes :-) )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623358 in gnurobots (Ubuntu) "gnurobots ftbfs in maverick" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623358
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: heh
<tumbleweed> you can have the upload then :)
<fabrice_sp> :-) I just wanted to avoid double work ;-)
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: wanna do some sponsorships for me?
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I'm looking at bug 623372
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623372 in libgtkada2 (Ubuntu) "Sync libgtkada2 2.14.2-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623372
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<ari-tczew> aha ok
<tumbleweed> didn't my ack-sync lock it?
<fabrice_sp> hmm, you too?
<fabrice_sp> still in New in the ack-sync output
<fabrice_sp> ack-sync throw me an exception, so it may be true
<tumbleweed> you're riht, still new, but it assigned me (didn't it used to set in progress?)
<fabrice_sp> should be, yes
<fabrice_sp> IIRC, bdrung added it and also a control on status to avoid 2 people working on the same bug report at the same time
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: I can't see any sign of In Progress in the source (or the bzr log)
<fabrice_sp> bdrung perhaps forgot to commit the change, then
<tumbleweed> I was going to ammend it to set Fix Committed before uploading, but determining which task we are looking at is quite complex
<fabrice_sp> perhaps we should be using IRC to avoid clashes. Something like /me looking at #623358
<tumbleweed> I normally unsubscribe sponsors and subscribe myself when starting to look, then reload the bug to be sure nobody else has
<fabrice_sp> so do I
<fabrice_sp> except with ack-sync
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: looks like ack-sync locks by assignee - it must have been a race during assignment
<fabrice_sp> tumbleweed, could be, yes. I'm updating also my ack-sync script, in case something has been fixed recently
<tumbleweed> I've done a couple of tweaks, testing now.
<shane2peru> ok, I followed this guide:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python  and my deb comes out small, and only installed the control files, where did I go wrong??
<shane2peru> Is this the right channel to get help with packaging?
<tumbleweed> shane2peru: #ubuntu-packaging
<shane2peru> tumbleweed, ok, thanks
<ari-tczew> could someone check whether it can be synced or not? package xserver-xorg-video-sunleo
<ari-tczew> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-sunleo
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: #ubuntu-x ?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: I should ask doko, but he is not around here or #ubuntu-x
<Laney> no
<Laney> it's not a new upstream yet so the tarballs will still be different
<Laney> â fakesync or merge
<ari-tczew> Laney: I know that tarballs are different - I can read changelog... but there is a change - b-d on quilt - what's the reason?
<Laney> what? You asked if it could be synced and I answered you
<Laney> I don't know what the build dep is for either, the changelog should have been more verbose
<Korbit> hello
<Korbit> i'm trying to create my first ubuntu package
<Korbit> since this is a java program i'm getting this error in pbuilder
<Korbit> Can't exec "ant": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Dh_Lib.pm line 179.
<Korbit> dh_auto_clean: ant clean failed to to execute: No such file or directory
<Korbit> how can i say that this program needs ant to build?
<Korbit> i tried this: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, ant
<Korbit> in the debian/control file
<Korbit> but it didn't work
<Korbit> any help?
<azeem> it's a Build-Depends
<Korbit> ups, sorry for noobness
<Korbit> didn't notice the build-depends variable
<Korbit> trying to build the package again
<Korbit> it's downloading java so i suppose it's working now =)
<Korbit> azeem, Unpacking ant (from .../ant_1.7.1-4build1_all.deb) ...
<Korbit> thanks man! =)
<Korbit> i'm so stupid... obviously i have to say that i also need a java compiler
<azeem> no problem
<Korbit> which java compiler should i use?
<azeem> the default one
<Korbit> i should use a meta java compiler right?
<azeem> didn't you say it downloaded one?
<Korbit> instead of saying openjdk-jdk for example
<azeem> why instead?
<Korbit> i'll see the dependencies of ant
<Korbit> because the binary package will depend on a java runtime
<azeem> check its Suggests as well
<Korbit> trying again
<Korbit> azeem, it worked! =)
<Korbit> i'm happy
<Korbit> i'm going home now and when i arrive i'll learn how to get my package uploaded
<canesin> anyone knows why a lucid build would resut in a dependancy on libav.* (>= 4:0.5.1-3) ????
<canesin> If the distro version is libav* 4:0.5.1-1
<Bachstelze> canesin: what package?
<Bachstelze> probably a bad import from Debian
<canesin> Bachstelze: I did the package .. imported it, it is paraview
<canesin> I commited .. compiled ok in maverick..
<canesin> but now I want to backport it..
<canesin> I'm not a MOTU
<canesin> I just filled the bug and so on
<ari-tczew> canesin: give a bug number
 * Jarvis tickles Laney 
 * Laney roars
<Jarvis> :D
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Thanks for that bug-buddy upload!
<canesin> ??
<canesin> bilalakhtar: How do I fix this ??
<bilalakhtar> canesin: Please elaborate
<canesin> bilalakhtar: It compiles, install, run and everything else fine in maverick
<canesin> bilalakhtar: compile fine in lucid also...
<canesin> bilalakhtar: but gives a dependency on libav.* (>= 4:0.5.1-3)  when installing
<canesin> bilalakhtar: if I force it to install, it runs and do everything else perfect..
<Bachstelze> canesin: give the bug number or an URL to your source package or something
<canesin> bilalakhtar: how do I fix that dependency on libav* (>= 4:0.5.1-3) to (>= 4:0.5.1-1) to ask for a backport in lucid
<Bachstelze> nobody here has a crystal ball
<bilalakhtar> I agree with Bachstelze
<canesin> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/paraview/3.8.1-1ubuntu1
<bilalakhtar> canesin: It would be a lot better to ask your question in public rather than refer me!
<canesin> sorry
<fabrice_sp> canesin, is this a build dependency or a generated one for the binary package?
<canesin> a generated one
<canesin> only ocours when trying to install the generated deb in lucid
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: by the way, I saw your upload doing a libao4 transition, should I request a rebuild of my package in Debian as well?
<canesin> used pbuilder-dist lucid build %.dsc
<fabrice_sp> canesin, so if you rebuild the package, the right dependency should be picked
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, not sure: I'm parsing the NBS, and libao2 was one of those
<canesin> That is why I'm asking here.. it does not.. it still shows  libav.* (>= 4:0.5.1-3)
<fabrice_sp> lfaraone, Debian has libao4. Which package is it?
<lfaraone> fabrice_sp: pianobar.
<fabrice_sp> it's ok in Debian
<fabrice_sp> canesin, why is there so many python2.5 stuff there?
<bilalakhtar> Hi fabrice_sp seeing you here after a long time!
<fabrice_sp> Hey bilalakhtar :-)
<fabrice_sp> on holidays tomorrow, so you'll have to wait even longer ;-)
<fabrice_sp> canesin, do you have a build log somewhere?
<fabrice_sp> for Lucid
<canesin> fabrice_sp, the program has a Python API..
<canesin> fabrice_sp, I'm rebuilding it now.. sorry.. only "last_operation.log" ..
<canesin> fabrice_sp, It is in 40% ....
<fabrice_sp> canesin, take your time
<fabrice_sp> even if it has a python API, why isn't 2.6 referenced?
<canesin> fabrice_sp, I believe that in version 3.8.1 it is 2.6 .. but in olders no
<canesin> this package was very outdated..
<canesin> that was why I filled the FFe
<fabrice_sp> yeah :-/
<fabrice_sp> 3.8.1 still reference python2.5
<fabrice_sp> at least, in the debian directory
<canesin> ? .. in the build log it don't call it
<fabrice_sp> you have it in paraview.lintian-overrides
<fabrice_sp> debian/python-paraview.install
<tumbleweed> oh dear I missed that. I sponsored it
<fabrice_sp> and that's it
 * tumbleweed assumes the python scripting is broken in it then?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: hey1
<fabrice_sp> it seems so, yes
<bilalakhtar> s/1/!/
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Thanks for that upload!
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: np
<fabrice_sp> s/1/?/
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: And, what about the mail I sent you? Can you answer it now?
 * tumbleweed sees some more SRU uploads from you first
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: I have none right noq
<bilalakhtar> *now
<tumbleweed> oh, nm
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: did you upload a few SRUs before becoming MOTU?
<tumbleweed> no, but I probably should have.
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: then?
<bilalakhtar> so its a 'Wait some more time'
<bilalakhtar> Thanks for the review tumbleweed !
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: no, that is unrelated, my mistake, nm
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: The problem is, I cannot find bugs which can be SRUed
<bilalakhtar> I tried one, but pitti declined
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: don't worry about that - you'll come across them soon enough
<tumbleweed> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/54310767/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.utouch-grail_1.0.10-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- eh? sh: gcc: not found
<Laney> don't worry about that
<Laney> all builds are saying it
<canesin> fabrice_sp: so what is the problem ??
<canesin> fabrice_sp: It has something broken ?
<fabrice_sp> canesin, did you posted a lucid build?
<fabrice_sp> ohh, about python: yes
<canesin> fabrice_sp: wierd, because I had run some python scripts to test
<canesin> before upload
<fabrice_sp> according to the install file, you should be missing debian/tmp/usr/lib/paraview/python2.5/lib-dynload/*.so files
<fabrice_sp> but as it's building fine, the build system seems to find those files
<canesin> ok...
<canesin> so no problem in that ..
<canesin> it runs
<fabrice_sp> not sure
<fabrice_sp> I'll build the package in a clean chroot, and see if the files are there or not
<canesin> okay
<canesin> and the dependency problem ?? how do I fix that ??
<vish> could someone upload bug 395692 ? it has a debdiff waiting for a very long time...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395692 in alacarte (Ubuntu) "Drag-and-Drop behavior in the menu editor is inconsistent and confusing" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395692
<vish> I asked Amaranth and he said upstream is unmaintained too
<bilalakhtar> vish: You're better off asking it in #ubuntu-desktop
<Korbit> hello everyone
<Korbit> i've followed the motu videos by daniel holbach to create my first package
<Korbit> now that pbuilder ran successfully, what should i do?
<Bachstelze> Korbit: depends, what kind of package is it?
<Korbit> i just packaged a java program that is not currently in the ubuntu reps
<Korbit> basically, i download the program (in .zip) and changed it to a .tar.gz like daniel holbach says in the video
<Bachstelze> if it's not in Ubuntu, it's probably not in Debian either, the "preferred" way is to get it into Debian, and let it merge in Ubuntu automatically
<Korbit> is it similar to create a package for debian?
<Bachstelze> yes
<Bachstelze> obviously, the packaging format it the same ;)
<Korbit> ok, i'll look into that on the debian website
<Korbit> it's A LOT to read
<Korbit> i'll just unzip the program and use it
<Korbit> i'm not into reading all this stuff just to create a package now :(
<fabrice_sp> canesin, the build failed because I don't have enough space on my HD. Sorry, I have to leave now
<canesin> fabrice_sp :
<canesin> Okey
<Laney> sparc and ia64 finally died eh?
 * Laney twiddles a script or two
<directhex> aw, now i can't install ubuntu on our altix
<Laney> nah, you just get the fun of rolling your own
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-25
<kklimonda> what is the right pocket to use when preparing a security release for universe package?
<kklimonda> lucid-proposed?
<micahg> kklimonda: should be lucid-security
<micahg> I thikn..
 * micahg checks
<micahg> kklimonda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation seems to imply -security for all
<kklimonda> right, mplayer is in multiverse and still has a -security pocket
<kklimonda> thanks
<micahg> kklimonda: made it to universe for maverick :)
<kklimonda> finally - if there is one thing I can't live without it's mplayer :)
<kklimonda> it should be in main ;)
<micahg> kklimonda: well, if you can file an MIR with a good reason, you have a chance now :)
<kklimonda> meh, I don't think being the swiss-army knife of media players is reason good enough - especially if what I've heard about code quality is true ;)
<persia> main/universe is an outdated distinction.
<kklimonda> persia: sure - now we only need few years for us contributors and users to stop making this distinction. :)
<persia> The only value to MIR is the code review, but we'd do better to have some override flag that let us identify which packages are reviewed.
<persia> kklimonda, Indeed :)
<persia> (although we also have to fix the package selectors a bit more, and LP)
<kklimonda> persia: what will happen when we finish reorganization? will the universe and multiverse apt components be replaced by ubuntu-core, ubuntu-server, ubuntu-desktop-core etc. ?
<kklimonda> that would be mess..
<kklimonda> maybe now, that we have ubuntu-status-support, we could just use main..
<kklimonda> ubuntu-support-status even
<persia> kklimonda, No.  We end up with three areas, which aren't likely to be called "main", "restricted-software", "restricted-drivers", but those names identify the contents well.
<kklimonda> makes sense
<persia> ubuntu-support-status is part of the work, but unfortunately it's still too narrow.  We have no way of identifying who provides said support, which tends to lead to disagreements about some things (where one person claims they will support it, and another doesn't want to do so, etc.)
<persia> So, we'll probably end up with something broader, so that groups like Canonical, Kubuntu Developers, Dell, Mozillateam, Oracle, etc. can claim they support specific sets of packages.
<kklimonda> by "who" do you mean which team or is this distinction between canonical and community-based teams?
<kklimonda> ah, nice
<kklimonda> I guess Oracle isn't exactly "community-based" team *cough* but I get the idea.
<persia> I don't like to make distinction between "Canonical" and "Community": my viewpoint is that Canonical participates in the Community.  That said, there's perhaps a useful distinction between artificial people (e.g, Dell), and loose conglomerations (e.g. Mythbuntu Developers)
<persia> And while Canonical deserves great thanks for the sheer volume of contribution to Ubuntu, I'm not sure it's very special compared to other corporates who pay developers to work on Ubuntu and support various parts of it.
<persia> Well, Oracle also participates: I know for certain that there are Oracle employees whose job descriptions include making sure various things work correctly in Ubuntu.  They deserve thanks for that, regardless of other opinions we may hold of Oracle in general.
<kklimonda> persia: well, that's great - wish they showed themselves so we can thank them :)
<persia> Coincidentally, better coordination of corporate contributions was brought up at a recent CC meeting.
<kklimonda> that would be great if more contributions like it were hilighted
<persia> Yeah.  We're pretty good about thanking people who help.  We're less good about thanking organisations that fund people to help.
 * micahg wonders if requestsync is not working for others as well
<persia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/17/#ubuntu-release.txt has some pithy comments about why the use of requestsync is dangerous anyway.
<persia> Err, nevermind.
 * persia has confused requestsync and sycnpackage again
<micahg> persia: yeah, I know about syncpackage
<micahg> persia: requestsync is telling me packages aren't in unstab;e
<persia> which package?
<micahg> sqlite3
 * micahg figures this is the last chance to get it updated
<persia> I get "E: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (3.7.0.1-1). Aborting." trying to run requestsync against sqllite
<micahg> persia: yeah, that's because Debian's QA madison is out of date, I'm using the UDD madison
<persia> Hrm.
<persia> You could just file it manually, not that hard, really.
<micahg> yeah
<persia> I suspect there's some subtle dependency somewhere on the QA rmadison server
<micahg> I filed it manually
<tbielawa> Greetings MOTUs, gnu-smalltalk was excluded from Lucid and I would like to have it available. I would like to know what I can do to make this happen.
<lifeless> fix up the FTBFS that it was experiencing
<tbielawa> Ok
<micahg> tbielawa: yeah, it's in lucid, just not built
<lifeless> it may be fixed in Debian already, in which case requesting a sync should be sufficient
<tbielawa> INdeed
<tbielawa> I've been working on this.
<tbielawa> Is it possible to have a newer version used in it's place instead, since it was never included?
<lifeless> you could get such a thing into backports.
<tbielawa> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnu-smalltalk/+bug/557290 is relevant
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557290 in gnu-smalltalk (Ubuntu) "Make gnu-smalltalk build on lucid" [Undecided,New]
<tbielawa> It sounds like I just need to make the debdiff and let the SRU group know about it.
<micahg> tbielawa: well, a debdiff to fix the FTBFS if you want 3.0.3, file a backports request if you want 3.2 in lucid
<tbielawa> micahg: The people I'm supporting would prefer 3.2. I'll work on the FTBFS first and then apply for a backport.
<tbielawa> Seems more likely that getting the FTBFS fixed would get it included.
<micahg> tbielawa: well, i386 is built for maverick, but you probably want to fix amd64 before the backport
<tbielawa> You mean amd64 is broke for maverick?
<micahg> tbielawa: yep, when I said FTBFS before I was referring to Lucid, amd64 is broke for maverick as well
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnu-smalltalk/3.2-1/+build/1735324/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.gnu-smalltalk_3.2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nigelb> g32
<nigelb> err, #fail, sorry.
<tbielawa> you know, there's a hidden file, .gdbm in the upstream source, I wonder if that got misplaced somewhere
<tbielawa> oh, that file says it's contains debugging commands for smalltalk
<tbielawa> So for lucid, I should start at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gnu-smalltalk/lucid and fix the FTBFS.
<micahg> tbielawa: depends which version you're interested in
<tbielawa> I've picked the wrong source for code before and had to redowork
<tbielawa> Just fixing the 3.0 FTBFS
<micahg> If you want the 3.0.3-2 in archive, yes
<tbielawa> micahg: thanks for your help
<micahg> tbielawa: np
<tbielawa> target in changelog should be lucid, nothing special right?
<micahg> tbielawa: lucid-proposed
<micahg> Is it worth filing sync requests for a long stream of build deps at this point for a depwait in maverick?
<persia> Depends.  If they are independently worthwhile (e.g. pulling in a chain of recent Debian RC-fix uploads), then absolutely.  If they don't seem useful, maybe patch the depwaiting package to not need them.
<micahg> it's java stuff, so it seems like circular deps
<micahg> but a few of the packages are out of date in maverick comapred to sid
 * persia wants specifics
<micahg> tiles is depwait on libspring-core-2.5-java which is in the source libspring-2.5-java which requires are newer libhibernate3-java which requires the version of tiles that won't build
<micahg> persia: ^^
<persia> Ugh.  That's frustrating.  You might ask drazzib (#debian-java@OFTC) for recommendations, but I haven't seen him work much on Ubuntu, so I'm unsure if you'll get quick or useful advice.
<micahg> persia: is it worth pulling in something like that though?
<persia> I'd say yes: it fixes at least two RC bugs, and a security bug.
<micahg> persia: oh, how do I tell that?
<persia> But that's only for the three packages you mention: it may be the case that there is more goodness down the stack.
 * persia reads abridged changelogs from packages.qa.debian.org
<micahg> ah
<micahg> well, we have our Global Jam on Sunday, maybe i can get people to help me research these things
<persia> heh
 * micahg is supposed to review a list of mozilla bugs for the reviews team on Sunday as well
<micahg> persia: PM?
<tbielawa> micahg: nothing like fixing a FTBFS to end the night. I got that debdiff created but I'm going to test it once more tomorrow before submitting it.
<micahg> tbielawa: great :)
<raywang> hi, please how to install a deb package without any further post-conf?
<persia> Hrm?  How do you mean?  Not running the maintainer scripts?
<raywang> persia, well, i guess so
<raywang> like when you're installing postfix, and don't want to be interrupted by the post-configuration
<persia> Given the volume of things done in the postfix postinst, I suspect you don't really want to not run it.
<persia> My recommendation would be to search for docs on debconf preseeding, and ask in #ubuntu-server for specific support once you have some background.
<raywang> persia, well, actually postfix is just a dependency here, I don't really need it
<raywang> what i want is just a non-interactive installing process, so i have no need to configure it. :)
<persia> Yeah, you want preseeding.
<raywang> persia, do you have any idea how to ignore the postinst?
<raywang> persia, sorry, i don't get it. :)
<persia> Again, you *don't* want to ignore the postinst: you want to preseed debconf so it doesn't bother you.
<persia> Also, this isn't a good channel for support.
<raywang> yeah, you're right
<raywang> persia, ok, I want to preseed something for debconf when installing a package, and what channel would be the best? :)
<persia> Depends on the package.  I'd probably start in #ubuntu-server, as there's been a lot of work on server packages to be non-interactive, but I'd read the preseeding information in the installation guide (package: installation-guide-${arch}) first, and maybe the debconf documentation.
<persia> And you can probably use the knowledge you get with that to apply to any other packages.
<raywang> persia, ok, thanks for the guiding. appreciated! :)
<persia> raywang, Good luck.
<raywang> thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> maco, very nice blog article ... thx a lot for that :) you rock :)
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<maco> \sh: thanks :)
<\sh> ajmitch, moins :)
<maco> the packaging recipes need some love
<maco> will have to poke them at a sane time of da
<maco> *day
<ajmitch> you mean recipes in launchpad?
<ajmitch> or some other use of the word? :)
<maco> on the wiki
<ajmitch> ah
<maco> there are packaging recipes... short howto's for packaging that follow some very rote steps
<ajmitch> we should rename the wiki then
<StevenK> maco: That's a good blog article -- a small itch, if you don't specify the Section for the binary package, it uses the source package's Section
<ajmitch> it'll be confusing once LP recipes are in common use
<maco> StevenK: oooh computers being logical!
<persia> 90% of the time one probably *shouldn't* have the Binary section.
<StevenK> maco: Say it ain't so!
<maco> i got a comment saying i should switch it for quilt instead of native. you guys think so?
<ajmitch> it can be useful
<StevenK> Ewww, quilt
<ajmitch> because then adding patches is less effort
<ajmitch> StevenK: I know you're waiting patiently for 3.0 (git)
<maco> StevenK: were you the one who asked me in barcelona when i was going to apply to motu and i answered "when i figure out quilt"?
<StevenK> maco: It could be ... I can use quilt, I don't have to like it :-)
<StevenK> And I dislike git with fire and brimstone
<maco> i need to get better with git so i can have it not be a hindrance as i try to sort out how the heck the kernel works
 * wgrant just uses bzr-git
<wgrant> bzr-git is awesome.
<maco> also.... kde is going git (woo no more svn!)
<StevenK> maco: Why do you want to figure out how the kernel works?
<ajmitch> not so easy to use git-buildpackage & assorted tools with that
<maco> StevenK: because i want to grow up to be valerie aurora?
<wgrant> ajmitch: No... you just use bzr-buildpackage.
<ajmitch> wgrant: for existing packages in debian, and it does all the proper tagging, changelog entries?
<wgrant> ajmitch: It *should* work pretty much fine.
<ajmitch> it's when you want to work with a team & sponsor uploads (hi Laney!) that having to use the other tools is frustrating :)
<Laney> git-dch <3
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Thanks for the review!
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: hope it was useful
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Very much! I am going to apply in the meeting on september the 14th
<tumbleweed> cool, good luck
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: Let me give you a bug. Check if its the right wqay to go
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: bah, I just filed a bug in BTS, lost its bug number. Hell!
<lucidfox> <lucidfox> I wonder
<lucidfox> <lucidfox> What is it with Java that makes it so prone to overengineering?
<lucidfox> <lucidfox> IHammer hammer = HammerFactoryBuilderImpl.getHammerFactory(new DefaultHammerBindingConstants()).newHammer();
<sebner> lucidfox: it's hammer time! \o/
<directhex> lucidfox, a desire to avoid inflexibility, i guess.
<Zhenech> hyperair, copyright file is not uptodate?
<kklimonda> lucidfox: probably because Java naming is so long - developers just decide to go with the flow..
<kklimonda> naming conventions*
<kklimonda> lucidfox: I love examples like this one - is it a real piece of code?
<kklimonda> ;)
<hyperair> Zhenech: for geany-plugins?
<hyperair> whoops.
<Zhenech> hyperair, yepp
<hyperair> you mean just debian/copyright?
<hyperair> weird, i thought i documented things in there.
<lucidfox> kklimonda> No, I made it up, but most real "enterprise"(tm) Java applications have plenty of code like that
<hyperair> Zhenech: hmm looks like i didn't. i'll bring it up to date then.
<kklimonda> lucidfox: I'd love to find a real example like that - I'd print it, frame it and hang on my wall..
<Zhenech> hyperair,
<Zhenech> To git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/pkg-geany/packages/geany-plugins.git
<Zhenech>  * [new branch]      squeeze -> squeeze
<kklimonda> but I can't really stand reading Java code.. and I have an android app in plans :/
<Zhenech> look in there :)
<hyperair> Zhenech: ooh.
<hyperair> Zhenech++
<Zhenech> hyperair, i guess it's ok for you that I added myself to uplaoders?
<hyperair> Zhenech: sure no problem
<bilalakhtar> howdy hyperair
<AnAnt> Hello
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: ping
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: yep?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: could you sponsor something for me in Debian?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: what package?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: agg
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: new upstreeam version or bugfix?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: bugfix. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=575620
<ubottu> Debian bug 575620 in libagg-dev "libagg-dev: no #include for INT_MAX and abs" [Minor,Open]
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: sure, but I won't be able to get to it right now. can you send me an email?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: sure.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: could you give me adress on private message?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: myircnick at debian dot org
<ari-tczew> ok :)
<Laney> ari-tczew: you don't maintain that package, do you think it's worth a NMU?
<Laney> given that the severity is minor
<lfaraone> what Laney said. :)
<ari-tczew> Laney: what do you suggest?
<Laney> I don't know the bug
<Laney> you've to think about the squeeze freeze. Maybe you should give the maintainer some time to respond.
<ari-tczew> IIRC av doesn't have time for maintaining, but ok. I can wait some days.
<Laney> well then he should get some co-maintainers or hand the package over ;)
<ari-tczew> Laney: I'm only interested in uploading this one.
<Laney> not to you
<ari-tczew> requestsync doesn't work :(
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: got a time?
<geser> ari-tczew: can you be more specific than "doesn't work"?
<ari-tczew> geser: now I requested bug manually and I have to get a package to sync for test.
<ari-tczew> I didn't save error message.
<lfaraone> james_w: when you get a chance, can you merge in spiv's fix to bug #623736 in bzr-builddeb?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623736 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu) "bzr crashed with UnboundLocalError in _import_archive()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623736
 * lfaraone is using bzr in a chroot right now :(
<james_w> lfaraone: yes, I just commented
<lfaraone> aha, I see.
<Laney> right, here goes Maverick's Haskell transition
 * Laney quivers
<Laney> should only be a little one
<directhex> more haskell transitions?
<directhex> seems fragile, abiwise
<Laney> this upload changes the abi of one library
<Laney> but i don't understand why
<Laney> only touches stuff in debian/
<Laney> at least we made it so that apt will save users from having a broken system
<ari-tczew> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483532/
<ari-tczew> requestsync fails
<lfaraone> Do I need to explicitly specify universe/$SUBSECTION in packages that are destined for Ubuntu only?
<james_w> no
<lfaraone> For completely new packages, if I'm a MOTU, can I just file the needs-packaging bug, subscribe ~ubuntu-release, and go ahead and upload to the queue? Or do I need ~ubuntu-release approval first?
<hyperair> i think you need a FFe?
<BlackZ> lfaraone: for new packages you will need a FFe
<Laney> I doubt it matters if you upload to the queue first or after
<lfaraone> hyperair, BlackZ, right. I'm wondering if it's done similar to ~ubuntu-sru, where you need SRU approval, but they want it in the queue first.
<BlackZ> lfaraone: no, you will need a FFe before to upload the package
<hyperair> but it doesn't really matter, does it? if the FFe isn't granted, the package will get rejected from the queue. no harm done.
<tbielawa> Would some one please review this SRU request and tell me if I did it correctly? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnu-smalltalk/+bug/557290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557290 in gnu-smalltalk (Ubuntu) "Make gnu-smalltalk build on lucid" [Undecided,New]
<nigelb> tbielawa: everything seems to be done right
<tbielawa> nigelb: thanks for the confirmation!
<BlackZ> hyperair: what about if you will upload a new package and the FFe for it isn't garanted yet when an archive admin will check it?
<hyperair> BlackZ: then it gets skipped?
<BlackZ> hyperair: it may get skipped, yes
<hyperair> BlackZ: so nothing bad, right?
<BlackZ> hyperair: yes, if when you will upload a new package and the FFe for it isn't garanted yet when an archive admin will check it, it doesn't really matter if you will upload it first or after (as Laney said)
<Laney> so nobody is arguing, good
 * hyperair nods
<micahg> this is after beta freeze, right?
<Laney> now
<Laney> that doesn't mean anything for universe
<micahg> Laney: I thought it jsut meant that uploads need to be processed by an AA
<micahg> oh, me  just checked the scrollback
<Laney> well stuff gets held in unapproved
<micahg> nm'
<BlackZ> lfaraone: so it's a your choice to upload the new package (a package that isn't in Ubuntu nor Debian) first or after that the FFe got approved/rejected
<BlackZ> s/approved/rejected/granted/not granted
<iulian> lfaraone: Is that new package going to be uploaded to Debian as well?
<lfaraone> iulian: No, it isn't.
<lfaraone> iulian: I'm a DD, so I'm usually in favor of submitting it to Debian and sync it over, but this package is not really useful outside of Ubuntu.
<iulian> lfaraone: That was actually my next question.
<ajmitch> you probably want to mention the FFe in the changelog for the archive admins, but that ends up being slow waiting for -release before you can upload
<lfaraone> iulian: "ubuntu-sugar-remix-default-settings" and a "ubuntu-sugar-remix" metapackage are about as useful in Debian as having "debian-edu-*" in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> lfaraone: If I approve ubuntu-sugar-remix, is that going to cause more FFes to appear or is this it?
<lfaraone> ScottK: yes and no.
<ScottK> Please clarify?
<lfaraone> ScottK: the package only depends on what's in the archive, of course.
<lfaraone> ScottK: but we've a few packages that are in Debian that we'd like to get synced over to Ubuntu.
<ScottK> So there's more that's no in the archive that you'd add if you can?
<ScottK> OK.  Anything that's not in Debian?
<lfaraone> ScottK: one in NEW, and I think there may be one or two unpackaged. But right now we're focusing first on what's already packaged.
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'm good for an FFe for the metapackage, the default settings, and syncing from Debian.  If you want new packages not in Debian, find an archive admin with time (not me) to agree to do the New review and include that in the FFe for the new pacakge.
<lfaraone> ScottK: 1 in new, 2 packaging in process of being packaged, and 2 unpackaged.
<lfaraone> ScottK: okay, great.
<lfaraone> ScottK: so in the future for packages meeting those criteria (syncs), should I just subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<ScottK> lfaraone: No.  They still need release team approval.  I'm just telling you now I'll give it.
<lfaraone> ScottK: ah, okay.,
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-26
<ari-tczew> why patch is not applied due to DEP3 tags?
<micahg> ari-tczew: something must be wrong with the formatting
<micahg> or..wait, what release?
<ari-tczew> micahg: maverick. package uses cdbs
<ari-tczew> micahg: sorry, karmic!
<ari-tczew> micahg: simple-patchsys.mk in debian/rules
 * micahg doesn't know if karmic recognizes DEP-3,
 * micahg doesn't know enough about this
<micahg> ari-tczew: do you want to pastebin the patch and we can see if anything looks obviously wrong
<ari-tczew> micahg: this is OK patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483679/
<ari-tczew> micahg: patch WRONG: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483680/
<ari-tczew> Trying patch debian/patches/01-fix_XSS_IE.patch at level 1 ... 0 ... 2 ... failure.
<micahg> ari-tczew: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ take a look at the structure section
<micahg> you might need a # before each header line
<ari-tczew> micahg: I tried to use ## and doesn't work
<micahg> ari-tczew: 1 #
<ari-tczew> micahg: still failed
<micahg> ari-tczew: maybe try usind cdbs-edit-patch to make the patch and see what headers it adds
<micahg> *using
 * micahg isn't good with non-quilt systems
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'll solve this through another way
<micahg> ari-tczew: k
<micahg> nxvl: why not update in Debian and file a sync request?
<micahg> re: terminator
<nxvl> micahg: my debian sponsor is sloooow
<nxvl> micahg: and i need a FE anyway
<micahg> nxvl: you did specify why in the bug
<micahg> oh
<micahg> well, you mention it, but you should make it clear that's the FFe reason
<micahg> nxvl: I had something similar, I got a package updated today in Ubuntu to make the freeze and will update Debian soon
<nxvl> well, i'm trying to get it into debian at the same time
<AnAnt> Hello
<dholbach> good morning
<AnAnt> Ø£Ø«ÙÙØ®
<AnAnt> Hello
<RAOF> Wow.  The ubuntu font handles that surprisingly well.
<lucidfox> I see that you use CDBS.  Nice! :-D
<lucidfox> Then I suggest to use auto-resolving of build-dependencies (currently they are not quite optimal):
<lucidfox>  1) copy debian/control to debian/control.in
<lucidfox>  2) edit debian/control.in replacing cdbs build-dpendency with @cdbs@
<lucidfox> ^ ewwwwwww
<maco> O_o
<RAOF> Mmmmmm, autogenerated debian/control!  Everyone loves it!
<lucidfox> RAOF> Sarcasm? :)
<RAOF> Indeed!
<RAOF> Most perspicatious of you :)
<hyperair> lucidfox: where did you see that?
<lucidfox> hyperair> Debian pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list
<hyperair> lulz
<RAOF> More dh, please!  All the conciseness of cdbs with significantly less crazy arcana.
<lucidfox> What RAOF said
<lucidfox> Really, it's once again, a toolkit vs framework ideological dispute
<hyperair> but dh>=7 please.
<lucidfox> With frameworks, all too often you end up fighting the system if you need to do something nontrivial
<maco> hyperair++
 * hyperair is utterly terrified of all these dh_blahblah debian/rules
<hyperair> in fact, i'm dreading having to stare at libgpod's debian/rules.
 * maco used dh_make to avoid learning how to do write debian/rules until dh7 happened
<hyperair> hahahaha
<hyperair> i read through the cdbs documentation, and amazingly emerged with less than 50% understanding of CDBS.
<maco> lucidfox: lfaraone says his sponsor until he became a DD was the guy that wrote cdbs and so would refuse to sponsor anything not using it
<hyperair> for the other 50%, i had to dig through the files in /usr/share/cdbs/1
<maco> (or possibly current maintainer of cdbs... meh, someone with bias)
<hyperair> heh
<Laney> does anyone fancy helping me with a bunch of haskell rebuilds?
<Laney> :(
<directhex> too much going on
<directhex> at least i can move my neck today though!
<Laney> necks are overrated
<directhex> sharks don't have necks
<directhex> so they don't look back
<directhex> sharks would probably be dangerous on the M40
<hyperair> lucidfox_: oh my, the person who received those tips is now in #debian-mentors
<ajmitch> mmm, cdbs hackery
<directhex> i can give a concrete example of why cdbs is a problem
<directhex> you need to employ unpleasant hacks, or cli:Depends won't work on source packages with C and mono outputs
<directhex> as cdbs will discard the dh_clideps output
<ajmitch> how about: any package that requires multiple build passes
<directhex> yes, or that
<persia> Laney, I've some spare cycles: I'll take 5.  Just need test-rebuild and build1 upload?  Which packages?
<directhex> libubuntuone is an example of the issue, anyway.
<directhex> hence
<directhex> binary-predeb/libubuntuone1.0-cil:: binary-fixup/libubuntuone-1.0-1
<directhex>         dh_clideps -plibubuntuone1.0-cil
<ajmitch> libubuntuone is an issue in itself
 * ajmitch would be rather tempted to rip out cdbs from that package
<Laney> persia: Test build, check it's installable (but should be if it builds), upload
<Laney> persia: let me know which ones you take so we don't collide
<Laney> this is what makes me want binNMU-a-like in LP
<persia> List me 5 and I'll make my otherwise idle build-server sweat a bit.  I'm not familiar enough to pick them wisely.
<Laney> ok
<Laney> haskell-configfile haskell-haxr haskell-unix-utils haskell-hsh haskell-vty
<ari-tczew> chrisccoulson: why didn't you sync nspr from Debian? :(
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, because we package it completely differently
<chrisccoulson> ari-tczew, all mozilla products are blacklisted
<chrisccoulson> so, please don't go merging or sync'ing mozilla products from debian without speaking to me first ;)
<persia> Laney, E: Unable to find a source package for haskell-unix-utils
 * persia strongly encourages folks to talk to all of mozillateam, rather than only chrisccoulson, as it saves chrisccoulson repeating the statements, thereby increasing his patience
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<Laney> persia: that'll be haskell-unixutils, sorry
<persia> That one exists.  Starting testbuilds.
<Laney> this is where I really need to set up a gpg-agent
<persia> heh.
<persia> gpg-agent + debsign -r is bliss
<persia> Laney, All successful.  Uploading.
<Laney> persia: cool, thanks
<persia> What transition causes the rebuild (for the changelog entries)?
<Laney> Various. I just put âNo-change rebuild to pick up new library ABIsâ
<persia> heh.  OK.
<Laney> It makes more sense to do them all at once rather than repeatedly rebuilding over the cycle
<persia> If you're paying attention, yes.  I usually catch stuff in NBS.
 * persia vaguely grumbles about environments like haskell and java that require installation of lots of stuff before one can build source
<Status0> hi all. i'm new. i need some help, i try to apply to developer community of ubuntu but is so comfusing can anyone can guide me step-by-step what to do. i created wiki page and i have launchpad account, what i should do ? in the site there is too much information that comfusing me
<persia> Status0, First step: don't worry about any of that.  The application process isn't at all important to get started.
<persia> Next: what sort of stuff do you like to do?
<Status0> persia: develop. use linux. contribute linux.
<persia> By "linux" do you mean the kernel, or the set of software often used with linux?
<Status0> linux, means everthing i have no problems to develop to kernel and modules of selinux, and i have no problems to develop new software
<Status0> basicly i want to be a part of community, and help where i can. and give ideas.
<persia> OK.  So, most developers spend time working in kernelspace *OR* userspace.  You are welcome to do both, but I can only usefully tell you how to get involved in doing stuff with Ubuntu userspace.  For kernelspace, you want to talk to the #ubuntu-kernel folk.
<persia> You've become part of the community just by joining our channels, and being interested.  Welcome.  Next step: stay part of the community by doing stuff :)
<persia> As distribution developers, we tend not to develop much new software, rather focusing mostly on bugfixes and integration.  You're certainly welcome to participate by creating new software that works well as part of Ubuntu, but that path doesn't usually lead to the title of "Ubuntu Developer".
<persia> Some of the folks who do new software specifically for Ubuntu hang out in #ubuntu-app-devel
<duanedesign> ahh, i came in at just the right time...
<persia> In this channel we're mostly focused on QA stuff: bugfixing, integration coordination, trying to reduce distribution maintenance overhead through communication with upstream, etc.
<persia> If that interests you, my best advice is to pick a bug, and start tearing into it.
<duanedesign> I haven't done much MOTU work since Maverick was released. I was going to ask what items are needing attention?
<Status0> where and how i do it ?
<persia> the folks in #ubuntu-bugs can help track down the affected software, and collect a lot of information about the cause, and the folks here can help with finding a patch getting it applied, communicating it to all the right places, and getting it uploaded.
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs has *lots* of bugs.
 * persia checks to see if there are some bitesize or packaging ones open
<duanedesign> Status0: i thought this was a pretty inspirational blog post on soomeone getting involved with fixing bugs. http://brunogirin.blogspot.com/2010/08/contributing-to-shotwell.html
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize are supposed to be easy bugs, which might be a good place to start.
<vish> !development
<ubottu> Interested in becoming an Ubuntu Developer? Get started here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<persia> That just leads to the wiki pages, and ends up confusing people about the application processes.
<persia> The key fact that we encourage everyone to just join in, and only worry about applications after they've been around a while and need special perks isn't made clear enough.
<vish> persia: oh,  but isnt about developer membership , mostly links to various sources and how they can help.  maybe the factoid needs a cleanup ? :)
<vish> *it isnt
<persia> vish, The factoid is probably fine.
<Korbit> good afternoon everyone
<persia> But lots of folks starting there end up getting worried about "How to become a developer".  I'm not sure how (or I'd have changed it), but I think we need to make it clearer that there are absolutely no requirements before starting as an Ubuntu Prospective Developer, or working in bugsquad.
<vish> yeah..
<Status0> thanks about the information, but its still comfusing what in the site wrote that i should become a member and do a long process in order getting membership . why its not easy.
<Status0> it's should be open community. and i see alot of Bureaucracy it's not fun :-(
<persia> It's only a communications issue.
<jetienne> q. is "1.2.3beta1" a valid version for a .deb filename
<persia> It's a completely open community, but we honor those who have made significant and sustained contributions by granting them an email address, IRC cloak, etc.
<persia> Perhaps calling that status "member" may feel a bit exclusionary.
<Laney> jetienne: It's a technically valid upstream part of a Debian version, yes. But you probably want it to be considered "lower" than 1.2.3, right? So I'd suggest 1.2.3~beta1.
<Status0> jetienne: no i thing you should provide also a name like "demo-software.1.2.3-beta"
<duanedesign> not being a member does not exclude you from participating
<persia> Indeed.  membership is granted *after* participating for a while, rather than being a first step.
 * duanedesign thinks he found a bitesize bug he can work on \o/
<vish> Status0: as persia was explaining , you dont have to be a member to help. there is no Bureaucracy here :)
<jetienne> Laney: Status0: ok so a - or a ~ is needed. i was looking at http://semver.org/ this is the version seen from github guys
<persia> Status0, The issue is that 1.2.3~beta1 sorts earlier than 1.2.3, but 1.2.3-beta1 sorts after than (and confuses things, as 1.2.3-xxx is typically used when xxx represents the distribution revision)
 * persia prefers + or ~, depending on semantic intent
<ogra> persia, we used to call it "Ubuntero" initially :)
<ogra> the word Member came up later
<persia> I know.  I'm becoming increasingly unsure "Member" is better.
<ogra> ++
<Laney> I thought that Ubuntero was just someone who had signed the code of conduct
<Status0> i think that espatialy ubuntu www site should explain this instad buffer-overflow of information
<persia> Laney, That was later, but is the current meaning.
<Status0> Laney: i singed this also.
<Laney> I see
 * Laney is too new-school, clearly
<persia> Status0, I'd agree, but we're a lot better at maintaining software than we are at maintaining the website.  There's plenty on the website that is not only confusing, but actually completely wrong.
<Korbit> how much time do you think is takes a newbie to create his first package?
<tarzeau> Korbit: not a lot, depends a lot on the software
<persia> For a nice clean upstream, an hour or two at most.
<tarzeau> Korbit: http://io.debian.net/~tar/irc/debian-packaging/
<Korbit> ok, i'm trying to package my first package of a basic java program that is not currently in the repositories
<Korbit> i'm reading debian's packaging guide
<tarzeau> good luck :)
<tumbleweed> persia: we are talking newbies, though. I had some experience when I started, and I still probably spent a few days getting my first package into sponsor-approval-ready state
<tumbleweed> (my sponsor was very pedantic)
<persia> tumbleweed, Then you either didn't start from good docs, or didn't have good people telling you what to do.
<tumbleweed> persia: I had a good person, but he tried hard to make me work out things myself
 * persia is exceedingly pedantic, but has led people through packaging simple stuff in less than an hour: it all depends on the upstream.
<Korbit> i'm reading this now: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html
<jetienne> about sponsor, my neoip-webpeer needs some love
<jetienne> :)
<tumbleweed> persia: I'd say *now* it takes me around an hour or two to package an arbitrary thing.
<tumbleweed> (assuming a fair degree of weirdness, because all upsteams are weird)
<persia> Really?  Even a hello world shell script?
<tumbleweed> well, obviously more than that :)
<persia> Ah, yeah :)
<Korbit> how should i know in which section i should place my program in the control file?
<tumbleweed> Korbit: there's a list of sections linked to from the debian policy
<tarzeau> Korbit: which software is it?
<Korbit> sablecc, a parser generator for compilers
<tumbleweed> Korbit: heh, good luck with sablecc (btw I've got a package of it)
<tarzeau> Korbit: devel
<Korbit> tumbleweed, you do? but it's not in the repositories
<jetienne> https://launchpad.net/~jerome-etienne/+archive/neoip/+packages <- i got neoip-webpeer deb in my ppa... how can i include it in normal ubuntu repo ?
<Korbit> tarzeau, thanks
<persia> jetienne, There's quite a bit of discussion about that currently (see the ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com archives for this month).  You might get lucky uploading to REVU.  Debian is frozen for squeeze, so NEW is backed up.  You may do best to wait, although starting the process of getting into Debian may be ultimately easiest to continue to maintain.
<tumbleweed> Korbit: it was removed from debian because nobody was maintaining it: http://bugs.debian.org/508361
<jetienne> persia: wild guess on how long it may be ? rough estimate is ok
<tumbleweed> Korbit: my package looks workable, I can't remember why I didn't try to get it back into debian (probably because I don't use it personally)
<Korbit> tumbleweed, should i continue packaging it then?
<persia> I can't.  Some packages have been in REVU over a year, but I've seen others go through in a week or so.  I hope Debian will release real soon, but that won't happen until the bugs are closed.
<tumbleweed> Korbit: if you are keen to maintain it in debian yourself, you are welcome to my packaging. https://edge.launchpad.net/~stefanor/+archive/tsl/+sourcepub/1218761/+listing-archive-extra (packaging is in bzr: lp:~stefanor/+junk/sablecc )
<simar> shadeslayer: shadeslayer: the new version of xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is released upstream here http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/driver/xf86-input-synaptics-1.2.99.901.tar.gz
<jetienne> persia: hmm ok thanks
<jetienne> ppa will stay then :)
<tumbleweed> Korbit: sorry, my "good luck with sablecc" was incorrect, it's a perfectly sane package. It was other stuff that depended on it that was insane.
<persia> I'd recommend following the discussion on ubuntu-devel@ : I suspect the conclusions from that will be better guidance than anything anyone can tell you now.
<shadeslayer> simar: i have exams for the next 10 days ;)
<Korbit> tumbleweed, i'll try to follow the debian instructions to create my first package with sablecc =)
<shadeslayer> simar: if its a bug release update, package it
<Korbit> tumbleweed, i guess i can do it
<shadeslayer> if its a absolutely new release with new features, dont bother
<Korbit> tumbleweed, if i manage to create it, i'll create a package for the new beta release also
<shadeslayer> i doubt itll go through FFe
<tumbleweed> Korbit: cool. You learn more doing it yourself :)
<Korbit> tumbleweed, before i know it, i'll be fixing bugs and submitting patches for other programs ;)
<Korbit> tumbleweed, there is so much to read to create a single package!
<Korbit> tumbleweed, it's a miracle we have contributors to debian
<Korbit> and i'm a technically oriented person, i can't imagine non technical people trying to do this
<persia> Korbit, http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2010/08/is-packaging-new-software-hard.html outlines a fairly simple procedure to package fairly quickly.
<Korbit> persia, thanks, i'll read that and i'll also blog about this once i get my first package accepted
<Korbit> yeah! dpkg-buildpackage exited successfully!!
<persia> As I mentioned to jetienne, getting a package accepted is a bit fuzzy just now...
<Korbit> echo $? -> 0 (i'm getting somewhere!)
<jetienne> with a now of undefined length :)
<Korbit> i got a sablecc_3.2-1_amd64.deb i'm happy
<tumbleweed> Korbit: yes, packaging is a big world :)
 * tumbleweed must find some nice easy example packages for global jam this weekend
<Korbit> following debian packaging instructions is really discouraging
<tumbleweed> Korbit: which ones? (I'd call that a bug)
<Korbit> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html (6.5 pbuilder package)
<Korbit> i'll try to use the ubuntu instructions to run pbuilder
<Laney> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools && pbuilder-dist sid create && pbuilder-dist sid build mypackage.dsc
<Korbit> this makes sense to you?
<Korbit> sudo pbuilder build sablecc_3.2-1.dsc
 * persia praises sbuild for not needing to be root to build stuff
<tumbleweed> looks good (but Laney is right about pbuilder-dist being easier to use for newbies)
 * Laney cuddles sbuild
<Laney> but the chroots mk-sbuild creates seem to be far from minimal
<persia> Same chroot as you get from pbuilder-dist.
<Korbit> there should be a GUI to help building packages
<persia> http://people.ubuntu.com/~persia/pull-soyuz-chroot gets ideal test chroots for Ubuntu, but isn't so useful for Debian.
<persia> (someone should add pbuilder support)
<Korbit> didn't build in pbuilder, i'll work on it
<Laney> root@chicken:/# apt-cache policy openssh-client
<Laney> openssh-client: Installed: (none)
<Laney> (sid-amd64)root@chicken:/home/laney/temp/haskell-unixutils-1.22# apt-cache policy openssh-client
<Laney> openssh-client: Installed: 1:5.5p1-5
<Laney> pbuilder, sbuild
<persia> OK.  Check the soyuz chroot.  I think either pbuilder isn't adding enough, or sbuild is adding too much, but I don't know which is true.
<Korbit> pbuilder failed again :(
<Korbit> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7), ant, default-jdk-builddep
<Korbit> dpkg-buildpackage is breaking on that last dependency
<Korbit> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: default-jdk-builddep
<Korbit> i'm stuck here :(
<Korbit> in http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/ant/ant_1.8.0-4.dsc
<Korbit> it's also using that dependency
<Korbit> so mine should work
<geser> IIRC that got dropped
<persia> Korbit, Try apt-get install default-jdk-builddep
<persia> (and yes, it was dropped for maverick)
<geser> and gcj-native-helper provides it
<persia> Oof.  That's annoying.
<Korbit> persia, thanks, it worked
<Korbit> i don't know why i need gcj for this... completely stupid since i already have openjdk
<persia> They do different things.
<Korbit> trying pbuilder again
<Korbit> starting creating my first package with a java programa was definitely not a good idea :D
<tarzeau> that's what i thought :)
<tumbleweed> Korbit: yes, java packages tend to be tricky to build (although the one you've got is quite straight-forward, as they go)
<Korbit> tumbleweed, pbuilder ran successfully =)
<Korbit> echo $? -> 0
<lfaraone> ScottK: btw, did you see my post on -devel about rainbow? OLPC's using it quite successfully in the field. (as in, it doesn't break things, and there are a bunch of applications that various developers have created for the platform under its restrictions)
<ScottK> lfaraone: I did.
<ScottK> It's interesting.
 * lfaraone likes it, but then again, I'm the maintainer in Debian, so I'm biased. :)
<lfaraone> ScottK: recently they were thinking about using Xephyr or VNC to sandbox X apps.
<ScottK> lfaraone: At this point I'm more interested in getting the requirements right than implementation.
<persia> We tried using Xephyr for ubuntu-mobile work during feisty-hardy: at that time it was too painful for words.  Maybe it's better now.
<lfaraone> persia: "sudo apt-get install sugar-emulator-0.88; sugar-emulator" will spawn an Xephyr window with a psedu-resolution of an OLPC XO display.
<lfaraone> persia: so it can be used out of the box in Maverick. Not sure how the work on using Rainbow for it has gone.
<persia> I believe that.  Does it handle segregation of X properties cleanly yet?
<lfaraone> persia: hm?
<persia> At least then we had issues if the X configurations were significantly different.  I'll have to play: maybe it works better now.
<micahg> \sh: I assume you saw the 1.10.8 release of zf
<ScottK> Anyone's brain up to fixing autoreconf in a CDBS package?  We need to rebuild osgal for NBS, but it FTBFS due to it's autoreconf not working.  If I autoreconf -f -i -Wall,no-obsolete and then build the binary without running clean, it builds fine.
<ScottK> If so, please grab osgal and have a look.  If you aren't a MOTU, I'll be glad to sponsor it.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-27
<lfaraone> If the same package has a different name in Debian and Ubuntu, and it has no rdepends, do I need a FFe to rename it?
<lfaraone> (rename it from its Ubuntu to Debian version)
<micahg> lfaraone: rename?  wouldn't you just add conflicts/replaces in the debian package on teh ubuntu one and drop the ubuntu one?
<persia> No, but you *do* need to have transition packages to handle that, for upgrades from all supported upgrade paths (for maverick, only lucid, which makes this easy)
<persia> micahg, No.  That breaks upgrades.
<micahg> persia: oh, right...
<persia> lfaraone, And given that this would hit NEW, you would benefit from an FFe to ease the discussion with the archive-admin.
 * micahg should know already
<persia> But don't be surprised if the release team decides to ignore/reject the FFE (not refuse, just say "pointless"), as adding transition support packages isn't technically a new feature.
<lfaraone> persia: mk. right now we have sugar-pollbuilder-activity 26+git20100521.d4def0b6-0ubuntu1 in Ubuntu. In Debian, we have sugar-poll-activity 26+git20100521.d4def0b6-1, which is *identical* to the Ubuntu version.
 * persia doesn't even want to think about how that happened
<persia> Did Ubuntu already sync that from Debian?
<lfaraone> persia: we intend to just call it -poll- going forward. Should we go ahead and make the change now? (it was in hardy and lucid under the old name, so we're going to have to carry a delta forward until the next LTS)
<lfaraone> persia: well, identical other than having a different release number.
<persia> Since sugar-poll-activity isn't in Ubuntu yet, I'd do it in natty (since you have to carry to next LTS anyway)
<persia> Easier, and less fuss.
<persia> Otherwise, you need 1) an FFe for NEW of sugar-poll-activity, 2) a transition package (creating Ubuntu/Debian delta for debian/control, which requires messing with control.in or manual munging), 3) some significant discussion with the currently fairly busy release managers and archive-admins about getting your packages sorted, and 4) a removal for sugar-pollbuilder-activity
<persia> For natty, you just need 2)
<persia> (unless you want to introduce a dummy transitional package in Debian, but it is useless there)
<micahg> and 4 :)
<persia> Oh, right :)
<persia> Still, half as much work.
<micahg> persia: have time to ack a sync request?
 * micahg doesn't expect it to go in until after beta freeze
<persia> Not now, maybe later.  Stick it in the sponsors queue.
<micahg> persia: it's there, but the main core-dev sponsor is on vacation :)
<persia> Oh, if it's seeded, I don't have authority to ack it anyway.  If it's not seeded, Beta Freeze doesn't mean much.
 * persia isn't core-dev
<micahg> oh...
 * micahg thought for some reason...
<ajmitch> you need to find a core-dev with spare time to build it?
 * persia points at suspiciously alert core-devs in New Zealand
<micahg> ajmitch: it's sqlite3
<ajmitch> oh dear
<micahg> already got the FFe
 * ajmitch looks around for Laney 
<ajmitch> micahg: this really really fixes all reported slowness issues? :)
<micahg> ajmitch: 3.7.1 supposedly did, 3.7.2 is one extra data munging bug fix
<ajmitch> looks important
 * ajmitch fetches
<micahg> ajmitch: bug 623722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623722 in sqlite3 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please sync sqlite3 3.7.2-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623722
<ajmitch> yeah I was on the bug
<micahg> ajmitch: thanks
<lfaraone> Can packages in Universe depend on packages in Multiverse?
<micahg> lfaraone: no
<lfaraone> huh. requestsync will grab a new package from contrib and try to put it in universe...
<lfaraone> micahg: byg 625026
<lfaraone> micahg: bug 625026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625026 in Ubuntu "FFe: Sync sugar-etoys-activity 115-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (contrib)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625026
<micahg> lfaraone: k, you should probably file a bug against requestsync
<micahg> lfaraone: I would think the AA would catch that when syncing though and throw it in multiverse
<persia> Not necessarily.
<persia> Many packages in contrib qualify for universe
<persia> UFSG != DFSG
<micahg> oh, I guess no bug then :)
<persia> Right.  archive-admins review in source NEW.
<micahg> but the package in question should still go in multiverse since etoys which is a dependency is in multiverse
<persia> When copyright changes, it's up to all of us to make sure we file bugs to move things.
<persia> Right.
<lfaraone> micahg: yeah, but etoys is free, just not something the ftpmasters wanted to include in main for technical reasons.
<micahg> lfaraone: k, well why is it in multiverse?
<lfaraone> micahg: the "source code" is a virtual machine that isn't trivially diffable.
<micahg> lfaraone: free is relative
<persia> lfaraone, And we don't have source to build the virtual machine?
<lfaraone> micahg: it's like if we couldn't bootstrap C, and could only edit C code using C code.
<lfaraone> micahg: yes, we have the VM source.
<lfaraone> micahg: however, nobody has bootstrapped Squeak Smalltalk since the 1970s or so.
<micahg> lfaraone: are we building the vm from source?
 * persia thought LaserJock did it a couple years ago
<lfaraone> micahg: sorry, the virtual machine has source, but we don't have source for the VM image.
<lfaraone> persia: news to me.
<micahg> lfaraone: then multiverse sounds right
<persia> yeah.
<lfaraone> micahg: well, you can edit the VM image, and modify it.
<lfaraone> micahg: but you just have to do that inside the VM image itself.
<micahg> lfaraone: right, but anything in main/universe needs to be built fro source in the archive
<persia> If it was written in a self-hosting language that generated machine-code that was the VM, and we bootstrapped off the last good build for each upload, it could be universe.
<persia> But we need to build the machine-code on the buildds to qualify for universe.
<lfaraone> persia: something that was talked about several years ago was to have a single "base squeak image" and just have everything else built as .changes off that.
<persia> Doesn't work.
<lfaraone> it's something dfarning is going to takle for natty.
<persia> We need source code (can be smalltalk) that generates machine code that processes the source code...
<lfaraone> "How can I bootstrap a Squeak image?"â¦"You don't. Some bits in this Squeak are descended from Smalltalk-76. They have been loaded and saved in a 'core image' many times. It is, theoretically possible to start from nothing (since it has been done in the past, back before the earth cooled), but it is not easy."
<persia> LaserJock is emeritus, but maybe drop him an email, and see if he remembers anything.
<persia> We don't need to start from nothing.  If you get a source package that build-depends on a binary package that had source with binary blobs, and that generates a binary package that can be used to rebuild the same source package, the buildd admins can iterate it a couple times, and put it in universe.
<persia> The key is that we need to be able to build it once we have it, not that we need to bootstrap from scratch.
<persia> (recent example was getting fpc working on powerpc and armel)
<lfaraone> persia: "build"? the image doesn't really need to be "compiled", it's modified when you're working on it.
<persia> lfaraone, Is it theoretically possible to write smalltalk code that would generate the image as a *separate* external binary blob?
<persia> And could it be said that such an external binary blob was a representation of that source?
<lfaraone> persia: Sure, there's SystemTracer. But from what I understand, people dislike it for some reason.
<persia> Find out why :)
<persia> Basically, you need some way to convert some body of text into the VM (this process may require the VM to be present, if you need).
<persia> Once you achieve that level, you can get into universe.
<lfaraone> persia: well, sure, you can merge in a .changes file (sort of texty) into an existing VM.
<persia> Before that, you can7t, because there's no documentation of the contents of the VM.
<persia> lfaraone, Except I want to generate a *new* external binary blob that happens to be a VM, rather than modify the VM.
<lfaraone> persia: so merge in the changes in RAM and then run SystemTracer to generate a new blog?
<lfaraone> *blob
<persia> Well, kinda, except you need a set of changes that starts from nothing.
<persia> Because we can't know that the binary VM hasn't been compromised.
<lfaraone> persia: sandbox it to hell and hope that nobody's too smart :)
<persia> https://forum.defcon.org/archive/index.php/t-8111.html
<Zombie> Hello, anyone living?
<persia> bundles of folks
<Zombie> I'nm interested in d2x-xl Builds for Mandriva.
<Zombie> er
<Zombie> I'nm interested in d2x-xl Builds for Ubuntu.
<Zombie> Let me explain.
<Zombie> Most of my build machines are Mandriva, and I can transplant that build from Mandriva to Ubuntu, and it will be okay.
<persia> d2x-xl ?
<Zombie> Its a source port of the DOS Game.
<Zombie> Descent 2/
<persia> OK.  And you want to build it on Ubuntu?
<Zombie> Yes.
<Zombie> My Mandriva builds crash. Badly.
<persia> So, you *could* do something with alien on the rpm, but we generally recommend that you add separate packaging metadata for Debian-format packages (which are used in Ubuntu)
<persia> there was a recent excellent blog entry detailing a fairly lightweight step-by-step process to accomplish this: http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2010/08/is-packaging-new-software-hard.html
<persia> You might want to stick it in a PPA, or you might want to work with the Debian Games team (#debian-games on OFTC) to get it into Debian and all derivatives (including Ubuntu)
<Laney> ajmitch and micahg: I don't think all of the slowness bugs are done yet
<micahg> Laney: :(, even with 3.72
<Laney> right
<Laney> there's a problem with ORDER BY RANDOM() that I'm aware of
<micahg> Laney: is it better than 3.7.0.1?
<Laney> sure, it fixes integrity problems
<micahg> Laney: k, well, we still have time before release if it can be tracked down...
<\sh> micahg, will come in just a few hours :)
<geser> persia: a rebuild of missingh is waiting in the upload queue. once it got accepted and build, your haskell-{configglue,hsh} rebuilds should be ready for a give-back
 * persia doesn't understand why things are failing in the DC that worked just fine 15 minutes before upload.
<Laney> persia and geser; You'll probably see some ftbfsen on armel that are just because ghc6 hasn't yet built there, should be good to give-back after that
<persia> armel worked for me: my issues are i386/amd64 (and I did my build-testing on amd64, making it extra confusing)
<Laney> hmm
<geser> Laney: do you know how many ABI provides have changed in the ghc6 package with the recent upload?
<Laney> geser: Just one (unix)
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/amd64.png the graph isn't so bad
<Laney> darcs is the strangest failure, and that has been happening for a while
<Laney> micahg: Actually I just got an email that it might indeed be fixed after all in .2
<geser> is there an explanation for the colours? green = ok, red = failure, light red = ?, purple = ?
<Laney> geser: There's a README
<Laney> It's FTBFS and FTBFS+uninstallable
<Laney> probably not the most advisable colours
<jmehdi> hi, I'm interesting in packaging a mono app, where could I find some good tutorial?
<persia> directhex, Laney ^^
<directhex> jmehdi, #debian-cli on oftc is a good place to be
<Laney> yeehaw
<jmehdi> directhex: ok, thanks
<Laney> as for a tutorial, looking at another mono app is probably the best documentation
<Laney> f-spot tomboy banshee tasque muine (did we RM that?)
<directhex> Laney, those are pretty complex examples aren't they? it'd help to know which app jmehdi has his eye on
<Laney> actually the packaging is usually pretty simple
<Laney> at least if I can understand it anywayâ¦
<directhex> heh
<directhex> i think some of sebner's packages have ultra-minimal dh7 don't they?
<Laney> pinta might be a good one
 * Laney forgets
<sebner> directhex: ultra minimal?
<sebner> directhex: *how* minimal=
<persia> rules.tiny
<directhex> rules.tiny, or as close as can be achieved
 * sebner looks
<Laney> I can't remember the name of that video editing one
<sebner> Laney: longomatch but it has clean and install overrides
<Laney> :(
<sebner> hmm, everwhere at least install/clean/configure overrides
<Laney> oh well
<persia> You guys should create some addons so you can use rules.tiny
<Laney> there is one
<Laney> pinta is as close to rules.tiny as I've found
<sebner> Laney: definately
<directhex> persia, we get fairly close... but sometimes you need hax.
<Laney> it should be genuinely rules.tiny at the next release
<Laney> modulo the include
<persia> Why include?  Shouldn't it be --with-mono or something?
<directhex> i thought joeyh was breaking includes
<Laney> compat 8 does indeed
<directhex> because he hates us. sniff
<persia> No, he just prefers integration to includes
<Laney> the include does export DH_OPTIONS += --with=cli
<Laney> and MONO_DISABLE_SHM
<directhex> yeah, it's the MONO_DISABLE_SHM one that annoys me
<smallfoot-> where can i get a list of software in the multiverse channel in repo?
<persia> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/maverick/multiverse/source/Sources.bz2
<persia> (replace "maverick" with other releases for those)
<smallfoot-> oh, i noticed you could view it in Synaptic too
<smallfoot-> put Spotify in multiverse
<smallfoot-> opera isnt in multiverse either
<jpds> smallfoot-: bug #386919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386919 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Despotify" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386919
<smallfoot-> despotify is open source command-line client and library
<smallfoot-> but they should put official proprietary client too, cuz its easier for most ppl to use
<smallfoot-> despotify only work with premium acc
<jpds> 'they' could be you.
<persia> Indeed, it's much more likely if "they" is you :)
<smallfoot-> package thing is very difficult
<persia> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2010/08/is-packaging-new-software-hard.html suggests not so much
<directhex> i agree with a couple of bits & pieces in maco's guide, but it's not a bad summary overall
 * persia would have s/but/and/ in that sentence
<Laney> it's easy with an easy upstream
<directhex> and it's hellish with messy upstreams
<directhex> don't stare too closely at OOo, you might go mad
<persia> No.  it's can reach impossible.
<persia> OOo isn't the worst thing out there.
<directhex> OOo has the worst build system i've worked on
<directhex> in the archive, anyway
<persia> You've done well then :)
<smallfoot-> http://www.spotify.com/se/download/previews/
<smallfoot->  http://repository.spotify.com/pool/non-free/s/spotify/ <-- .deb files here
<smallfoot-> you guys can copy those .deb files and put them in multiverse repo?
<persia> We can't use .deb files.
<directhex> smallfoot-, no.
<smallfoot-> oh
<persia> We need source packages.
<smallfoot-> but multiverse is non-free
<smallfoot-> spotify doesnt release source code for spotify, cuz its proprietary non-free software
<Laney> Spotify could potentially get a partner agreement with Canonical to have it in that repository, but it can't go into Ubuntu.
<persia> multiverse is *not* non-free
<persia> multiverse is less-free.
<directhex> hm, they actually have a repo for their packages, not just random debs
<persia> Laney, commercial agreements with arbitrary firms (including Canonical) do not waive the license restrictions on the archive (unless you refer to Canonical's partner archive, in which case you should be explicit: that's no more part of Ubuntu than Sharp's jaunty application service center).
<Laney> persia: That's what I meant by partner agreement
<persia> Ah, OK.  Canonical confusingly has several different "partner" things.
<Laney> Yeah, for avoidance I meant archive.c.c/ubuntu
<ScottK> lucas_: With maverick in freeze for beta, this would be a really nice time for another archive rebuild, if you're up for it.
<lucas_> ScottK: will try to do it next week
<ScottK> lucas_: Great.  Thanks.
<micahg> Laney: that's good news
<micahg> \sh: I wanted to ask you if the Zend_Twitter thing was worth an SRU?
<kklimonda> hmm.. is pbuilder-satisfydepends broken in Maverick? or at least has been modified? I've used it to install dependencies on my system (and then uninstall them by purging dummy pbuilder package) but that doesn't seem to work now :/
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: universe enabled?
<kklimonda> yeah, my bad - I've used it in a wrong folder.. I could swear it didn't work before, when I were in the right one but now it works as expected..
<ari-tczew> kirkland: can we sync package libjibx1.1-java? the Conflicts: field is not the same
<kirkland> ari-tczew: yes, we can sync it;  Debian's is "more correct", per email conversation
<ari-tczew> kirkland: ok thanks :)
<kirkland> ari-tczew: ack
<ari-tczew> kirkland: could you check this bug 618752 ? why is it commited not released?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 618752 in libjibx1.1-java (Ubuntu) "package libjibx1.1-java 1.1.6a-1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/java/jibx-bind-1.1.6a.jar', which is also in package libjibx-java 1.1.6a-0ubuntu2" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/618752
<kirkland> ari-tczew: i just lost a race at upload time
<kirkland> ari-tczew: i meant to mark fix-committed, and then upload, and have LP mark it fix-released
<kirkland> ari-tczew: but my fix-committed change got applied seconds after LP marked it fix-released apparently
<kirkland> ari-tczew: i just updated it
<ari-tczew> kirkland: thanks
<vish> tumbleweed: i'll close some of the bugs, no need for uploading them directly in Ubuntu. :)
<ari-tczew> Daviey: ping
<Daviey> ari-tczew, o/
<ari-tczew> Daviey: did you saw discussion with kirkland? ^
<Daviey> no :S
<ari-tczew> Daviey: I'll send you it on private message
<Daviey> ari-tczew / kirkland: i'm confused :S
<ari-tczew> Daviey: what's your problem?
<ari-tczew> where do you see new upstream release?
<ari-tczew> please show me, perhaps I;m blind
<Daviey> ari-tczew, erm.. you want to sync libjibx1.2-java (1.2.1-1) unstable right?
<Daviey> Maverick = 1.1.6a-1ubuntu1
<Daviey> "  * New upstream release (Closes: #526611)."
<Daviey> http://bugs.debian.org/526611
<ari-tczew> Daviey: no, there are no new upstream release
<Daviey> it looks like a massive sync
<ari-tczew> Daviey: please get a source of existing ubuntu package libjibx1.1-java and look in debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> command: apt-get source libjibx1.1-java
<Daviey> ari-tczew, I synced the current Maverick upstream version in.. i have it :)
<Daviey> changelog skewing, looks like
<ari-tczew> Daviey: perhaps. well, now it's ok?
<Daviey> I guess so.. I haven't looked at the delta.. but it still needs a beta freeze exception and ideally kirkland to ack the sync.
<ari-tczew> Daviey: are you in motu?
<Daviey> ari-tczew, no.. but that is irrelevant for this package - it's in main.
<ari-tczew> Daviey: bugfixes and improvements without new features (like in new upstreams) can go.
<Daviey> ari-tczew, That's fine.. but it still needs an ack from a core-dev.
<ari-tczew> Daviey: yes, I know about it :]
<ari-tczew> Daviey: if I would be impatient, I'd ask kirkland for ACK through launchpad (he gave ACK here 1,5 ~hour ago)
<Daviey> ari-tczew, Ok, great... I won't involved myself in the discussion further.
<Daviey>  libjibx caused me a day of pain a few weeks ago, as it was simply dropped from the archive.. Which is why i care about it.
<tumbleweed> vish: thanks :)
<ari-tczew> Daviey: no problem, feel free to ask. anyone who asks, do not wander
<ari-tczew> what is a sense of existing file *.1 in debian/changelog?
<ScottK> sistpoty: Would you be up for looking at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/54505066/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.hdf5_1.8.4-patch1-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - I think getting that fixed would unlock a fair number of armel build failures.
<sistpoty> ScottK: sorry, looks to be out of my range, since I lack armel hw (which makes it quite hard to find the reason for a SIGILL)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> dyfet: ^^^ Could you take a stab at it?
<dyfet> right now everything I build at least for kde for armel is crashing in build :(
<ScottK> This isn't KDE, so it ought to be a chance for a fresh start.
<dyfet> Hmm...illegal instruction...
<directhex> illegal instruction - building for the wrong ARM version?
<dyfet> This is whats also happening to all my kde builds on arm today, either happens in mock or cmake...hmm...
<ScottK> dyfet: What are you working on?
<sistpoty> dyfet: if you can trace down the illegal instruction in question (e.g. using gdb), I'm quite sure that would help to lock down the problem
<dyfet> I have a beagle board...it is very slow.  I am going to try that next though.
<ScottK> sistpoty: osgal currently FTBFS in Debian and Ubuntu due to autoreconf stuff not working.  We need to rebuild it for NBS.  Care to take a stab at that one (no special hardware required)?
<sistpoty> ScottK: on my list :). (still fighting with the wiki)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Thanks.
<AnAnt> Hello
<sistpoty> oh, nice, found the bug in osgal. it's of course a bug in cdbs (changing it's API). So a) the cause is simple to solve apart from b) cdbs is evil *g*
<sistpoty> oh, osgal is harder than I thought, cdbs has totally gone nuts, as far as I can tell it so far (though it never was sane in the first place *g*)
<ScottK> sistpoty: I didn't get beyond if I manually autoreconf and then don't let clean run first it would build.  Then I noticed it was CDBS and gave up.
<sistpoty> ScottK: actually I just managed to get it built (still with cdbs, and using pbuilder for unstable)... still trying to carve out minimal changes
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ScottK> You want to NMU it in Debian (along with our armel build patch) and then sync?
<sistpoty> ScottK: that would be my next question, once I sorted building straight from unstable sources out :)
<ScottK> Same RC bug exists in Debian, so if you're comfortable you have a sufficiently correct solution, I think it would be the way to go.
<sistpoty> ScottK: actually I'm working only from unstable sources right now :)
<ScottK> Great.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-28
<ari-tczew> how can I drop dependcy on file *.1 in /debian/ directory?
<ari-tczew> I use debhelper 7
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: define dependency? is debian/rules looking for a manpage there?
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: my debian/rules: http://paste.ubuntu.com/484702/
<ari-tczew> I wouldn't use .1 file
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: maybe a build log with the error might shed more clue?
<sistpoty> (as in, I don't know from the rules file alone)
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: http://www.plikos.pl/19k4/last_operation.log.html
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: better link: http://s1.plikos.pl/19k4/394cdc39e8e89bf8524d81d9c7bab073/last_operation.log
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: I removed .1 file in the past
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: I can't parse the output on the page (there are pictures and text in a language I don't speak)... maybe pastebin might be helfpul?
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: did you used second link?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: both :)
<ajmitch> chromium has a nice translate feature that helps there :)
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: second link connect directlu to file
<ari-tczew> directly*
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: it probably depends on the http referrer being set, so when we go to it, it doesn't link directly
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: nope, not for me at least
<ajmitch> do you have a clementine.manpages file in debian/ ?
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: I cannot use pastebin or something similiar, because this file is large
<ajmitch> it's only the last few lines you need to pastebin
<sistpoty> hey ajmitch btw
<ajmitch> hi :)
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: debian/manpages has got: debian/clementine.1
<ari-tczew> but I deleted file debian/clementine.1
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so delete it from debian/manpages?
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: hmmm..
<ari-tczew> I'll try, but what next? package without manpage?
<ajmitch> why did you delete the manpage?
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: because I think that management this file is not easy. strange chars like \fB\-a\fR, \fB\-\-append\fR
<ari-tczew> o_O
<ari-tczew> is there any easier way to create manpage?
<ajmitch> there are some tools like help2man to get it started, but the markup isn't that bad?
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: I'm preparing a package for REVU. I'm merging 2 proposed packages - from one guest and upstream developer. Upstream's package doesn't include manpages. what do you think, is manpages necessary for music player?
<ajmitch> I personally don't care about manpages for X apps when they've got basically no commandline options, but I think others may disagree with me on that
<ari-tczew> aha
<micahg> ajmitch: they have their uses unless the app has built in cli help for debugging
<micahg> *options
<ajmitch> I guess in the case of a music player, they can often be called with arguments like  --next, etc to skip tracks
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I disagree, since I've seen to many strange apps in /usr/bin which don't give any help when called with --help and aren't obvious what these do
<sistpoty> (hello kde things btw.)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: right, but does having a manpage help in any way apart from having a description of them?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: having a description would alread be something I'd been looking for
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: as evidenced - others disagree with me :)
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> ajmitch, ari-tczew: if it's evident what an application does, I don't think a man page is too much of a need though
<ari-tczew> ajmitch, sistpoty: ok, I'll think about include .1 file.
<ari-tczew> now other question: is possible to add 2 maintainers to one field?
<ari-tczew> it's new package, only in Ubuntu
<sistpoty> (as a side note, jsut to blame ajmitch, /usr/bin/ck-launch-session is not obvious to me (as seen on a debian/stable installation) :P)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: it's perfectly obvious to me :)
<sistpoty> haha
<ajmitch> ari-tczew: no, I think the Maintainer field must be one name/email only - Uploaders can contain multiple
<ari-tczew> ok
<ari-tczew> ajmitch: thanks, deleting .1 file from debian/manpages helped me
 * persia strongly encourages the creation of manpages for GUI apps.  That makes it appear nicely for tools like apropos.  It also lets the user have one consistent way to ask for documentation (which might just be an explanantion of the binary, and no options).
<ari-tczew> I have support windows in tarball. should do I delete all files related to windows, or delete only .dll file? I'm thinking about source-contains-prebuilt-windows-binary
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: I'd even suggest to delete windows binaries straight from the tarball (you can't be sure that the dlls match the source)
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: so you suggest repack tarball. do I need to change versioning to dfsg?
<sistpoty> ari-tczew: would be good, yes
<sistpoty> damn, persia: you seem to have driven ajmitch away.... .o_O
 * ajmitch is in hiding :)
<sistpoty> haha
<ajmitch> or just doing other stuff right now
<ari-tczew> who know how bdrung check package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8210 he gave some lintian issues. I haven't it in pbuilder's log.
 * persia recommends lintian -iIEv --pedantic foo_source.changes foo_${arch}.changes : not everything here needs fixing, but it all needs thinking about
 * ari-tczew sometimes thinks that some people here knows everything about packaging
<lfaraone> ScottK: would you approve Sugar FFes for syncs from NEW?
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'd prefer after they are out of New since then I know they met Debian's requirements.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> how can I detect if the sound server on the system is pulseaudio or not ?
<persia> AnAnt, Mostly we just assume it is.  What are you trying to accomplish?
<AnAnt> persia: I am maintaining a package (zekr) in both Debian & Ubuntu
<persia> Ah.  I see.
<AnAnt> it is a java package, the problem is that Sun JRE has problems with pulseaudio
<persia> So, what sort of ways *can* you output sound?
<AnAnt> so I have to wrap the call to zekr using padsp
<persia> Both Debian and Ubuntu recommend avoiding that.  Sun isn't supporting it much longer either :)
<AnAnt> avoiding what ?
<persia> using Sun JRE
<Nafallo> persia: and when you say Sun, you mean Oracle, no? ;-)
<AnAnt> well, there is a problem with OpenJDK too
<persia> Nafallo, I didn't know Oracle ever committed to specific support periods for the JRE.  I'd be glad to be mistaken.
<AnAnt> persia: zekr is using libbasicplayer-java to play audio
<persia> That ought just work, regardless of the environment (kinda the point).
<Nafallo> persia: I thought they had bought it all, I might be the one mistaken.
<AnAnt> persia: it seems that libbasicplayer-java is using a method not supported by OpenJDK to control the volume (gain)
<persia> If that fails to work, it's better to consider that a bug in the JRE
<persia> Nafallo, I think they bought it all.  I just haven't personally been told any support periods for Java by anyone claiming to represent Oracle.
<AnAnt> what out to just work ?
<AnAnt> erm, I think I'm lost in the conversation
<persia> libbasicplayer-java for audio out: it should generate audio for the user regardless of the user environment.  The application developer should not have to think about it.
<persia> If it doesn't, that's a bug in the JRE (or JRE config), and should be fixed there, rather than in every application that uses libbasicplayer-java
<AnAnt> persia: the audio playback works, it is modification of the output volume (setting the gain) that fails when pulseaudio is the system used
<AnAnt> persia: the bug was filed against OpenJDK during lucid cycle I think
<persia> OK.  Let's fix it.
<persia> Working around it in zekr isn't the right solution.
<AnAnt> let me see where it is then
<AnAnt> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1914216/master-gain-not-supported-in-openjdk
<AnAnt> persia: look at the first comment in that URL ^
<AnAnt> ah, here's the LP bug: #491784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491784 in libbasicplayer-java (Ubuntu) "Sound does not work with openjdk" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491784
<AnAnt> it was first filed against OpenJDK, then when I made a patch in libbasicplayer-java to workaround the problem, doko reassigned the bug to libbasicplayer-java
<persia> And uploaded it.
<persia> Does your patch not work?
<persia> Or does OpenJDK have a second, buggier, internal implementation of libbasicplayer-java?
<AnAnt> the patch only catches the exception to make the program using libbasicplayer-java not to crash
<persia> Ah.  "fixed the issue" wasn't clear on that point :)
<AnAnt> I just added a try catch
<persia> Whereas what it really needs is some closer work to make it do the right thing.
<AnAnt> "it" refers to OpenJDK or libbasicplayer-java ?
<AnAnt> as mentioned in the first URL I pasted, there are other playback problems with OpenJDK
<AnAnt> for example in Zekr, if I press play, then stop. The program would crash
<AnAnt> I should press pause before stop
<AnAnt> I think that relates to "it insists that you stop() a line before flush()ing it."
<persia> I think "it" is libbasicplayer-java, although one would have to traverse the implementation to determine that for sure.
<AnAnt> be back later
<persia> But I think the solution is either to patch the implementation to not break, or to patch zekr to respond to pressing "Stop" with stop();flush();
<persia> To troubleshoot, I'd probably back out your crash, and then read the exception traces to figure out where it makes sense to change things so it behaves sensibly.
<persia> Err, back out your patch.
<persia> Alternately, zekr could trap the real exception (by name) and do something interesting.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: no, working on finishing touches to our pyweek.org entry
<ari-tczew> aha
<AnAnt> persia: do something interesting ?
<persia> Sure.  Not crash, or call some handler to work around the observed issue, or attempt to do something with an alternate implementation, etc.
<AnAnt> persia: hmm, but according to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1914216/master-gain-not-supported-in-openjdk, it seems that the actual problem is in OpenJDK
<persia> I don't think there's enough technical content in that discussion to know if it's OpenJDK or some library running by default on typical OpenJDK installations.
<AnAnt> persia: do the errors in https://bugs.launchpad.net/zekr/+bug/622663 give good hints ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 622663 in Zekr "Audio Player crashes on volume change" [Undecided,New]
<AnAnt> persia: erm, nevermind
<persia> AnAnt, They do, but the "...10 more" hides the bit that gets interesting.
<persia> Anyway, the thing to do (to my mind) would be to add gain control support, which just makes the issue disappear (and makes everyone else happy).
<AnAnt> and how do I find out those 10 more ?
<AnAnt> add it in OpenJDK you mean ?
<persia> You'd have to replicate the crash (first installing an unpatched libbasicplayer-java, etc.
<persia> Yeah.
<AnAnt> so should I re-open #567856 ?
<AnAnt> I mean #491784
<AnAnt> LP 491784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491784 in libbasicplayer-java (Ubuntu) "Sound does not work with openjdk" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491784
<persia> bug #491784
<persia> I'd probably file a new bug for it.
<persia> And get the patch submitted upstream.
<persia> Because the discussion in the last bug doesn't really help with the new patch.
<AnAnt> persia: LP #625790 <= is the information there enough
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625790 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu) "OpenJDK needs to add gain control support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625790
<persia> AnAnt, Yep.  It shows that the problem is really with org.classpatch.icedtea.pulseaudio.PulseAudioSourceDataLine
<persia> That should be fixed so it does the right thing.
<persia> And it wouldn't happen with other providers, because then BasicPlayer will instantiate something different.
<persia> It's purely a bug in the pulse manager implementation.
<AnAnt> btw, I didn't try it on maverick
<persia> To solve this, you probably want to try with latest PulseAudioSourceDataLine.java (and whatever body of code is part of the same release cycle as that).
<persia> I'm completely certain this is an upstream bug, and needs be sorted there.
<persia> Then we can backport the fix to maverick/lucid/whatever
<AnAnt> where do I get that ?
<persia> Well, the jar name starts with classpath.org, so that's a good place to start.
<persia> Hrm.  Maybe not :( http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/classpath/org/?root=classpath
<AnAnt>  /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/ext/pulse-java.jar
<persia> "ext" implies th OpenJDK folk consider it external (but bundled).
<persia> Maybe one or more of the copyright or licensing statements in OpenJDK will identify who is upstream for it.
<AnAnt> IcedTea is licensed under the GPL v2.
<persia> Found it: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/pulseaudio/archive/tip.tar.bz2
<persia> Might be fixed then.  I don't see that exception in PulseAudioSourceDataLine.java
<persia> (unless I'm missing something obvious)
<AnAnt> so I should build that and replace /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/ext/pulse-java.jar with it ?
<persia> Oh, I see it.  So it enumerates over the supported controls, or tosses the exception.
<persia> To test upstream, that would probably be the simplest way to do it, yeah.
<AnAnt> persia: so it still is not fixed ?
<persia> Well, it depends on what you pass getControl() :)
<persia> At least the implementation has changed enough that it's worth testing with the new upstream.
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> I know the exception path will have changed.
<persia> (or if it didn't, you should ask someone else, because that means my Java is too rusty)
<AnAnt> erm, no Makefile.in ?
<persia> uses ant, doesn't it?
<AnAnt> oh,
<AnAnt> autoreconf && ./configure && ant && make
<persia> No.  Ignore me.
<persia> Right.
<AnAnt> well, configure complains that there is no Makefile.in !
<persia> Ugh.
<persia> You might want to check one of the release tarballs or something (http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/)
<AnAnt> persia: release tarballs (http://icedtea.classpath.org/download/source/) is for the whole Icedtea
<MichealH> Hello
<MichealH> How do I make a patch for Debian Bug Tracking reports?
<MichealH> Its got something to do in the /debian directory
<vish> MichealH: did you read the wiki i gave you already? :)
<MichealH> vish, I looked at "When to Send to Debian"
<MarioGL91> Hi, I'm looking at a package that FTBFS, and the error is "dkpg-buildpackaged died", can someone point me to the right direction with a link that explains this?
<ari-tczew> MarioGL91: give a link
<vish> MichealH: then , continue reading the wiki there is also a section for making patches  ;) its all there. you just need to read that wiki and its very easy , i'd suggest you first read the wiki and try to follow the instructions there, when you get stuck at something then ask here.
<MarioGL91> ari-tczew: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50288965/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.gawk_1:3.1.7.dfsg-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ari-tczew> MarioGL91: known bug 601030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601030 in gcc-4.4 (Ubuntu Maverick) "broken configuration test with fortify source " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601030
<MichealH> Thanks vish Now's time to make a patch!
<MarioGL91> ari-tczew: thanks
<geser> hmm, is pulling a new upstream snapshot which adds support to build with llvm-2.7 a new feature that needs an FFe? currently the package FTBFS without this change
<ari-tczew> geser: which package are you talking about?
<geser> ldc
<iulian> geser: No, I don't think so.
<iulian> geser: Please file a bug and I'll ack it anyway.
<geser> iulian: bug 625952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625952 in ldc (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Update ldc to 0.9.2+hg1655" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625952
<iulian> geser: Approved.
<devildante> hi everyone! could someone help me?
<vish> !ask | devildante
<ubottu> devildante: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<devildante> okay :)
<devildante> I had modified the software-properties-gtk desktop file to include "NoDisplay=True", so it could be hidden from the menu. The change got merged, but the menu entry is still present :( Do you have any ideas why this doesn't work?
 * Laney cuddles the empty build queues
 * Laney sneaky sneaks in some haskell rebuilds
<persia> AnAnt: Wow.  Sorry.  That's a big chunk.
<txwikinger> hi pers?ia how are you
<txwikinger> hi persia how are you?
<persia> txwikinger, Much improved.  And you?
<txwikinger> cool.. I am running an event for the Global Jam here
<txwikinger> hat 4 brand new people show up
<txwikinger> had
<persia> Nice!
<txwikinger> persia: I have a question that you might be able to answer
<txwikinger> I am stuck on packaging with a virtual package
<txwikinger> I have a package that provides this virtual packages that is available
<txwikinger> but somehow it does not seem to be automatically selected by apt-get
<txwikinger> how does that exactly work?
<persia> Does anything else provide the virtual package?
<persia> Also, does `aptitude search` find it?
<txwikinger> Yes another package provides the virtual package
<txwikinger> persia: aptitude search gives me a "v <package-name>" of the virtual package
<persia> Err, rather `aptitude show ${virtual-package}`
<persia> Excellent!  That means you have a working virtual.
<txwikinger> but the packages that needs the virtual package does not install with apt-get
<txwikinger> in complains that the virtual package cannot be found
<persia> What's the dependency entry for the package that needs the virtual package?
<txwikinger> Not sure I understand this question.. it is a depend on the virtual package
<txwikinger> and apt-get says broken dependency
<nicoulaj> I have packages in a Launchpad PPA for which I would like to request publication in ubuntu repositories. Anyone could point me to the docs/process to follow ?
<persia> txwikinger, I'm hoping you'd past the Depends: line from the control file.  There's rules about how one can depend on virtual packages, which I'm not able to express well now, but I hope to be able to apply to determine if the line is OK (as in, if it "looks wrong", I'm hoping I can explain why)
<iulian> Do we have a new Launchpad status called "Opinion"?
<iulian> Doh, we obviously do.
<iulian> Is there any info about it?  I have no idea what it means.
<txwikinger> persia: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libmcrypt4, phpapi-20090626
<persia> nicoulaj, The process for making that happen is undergoing discussion currently.  You could put them on REVU, but folks aren't reviewing there very much.  You could try to get them into Debian, but there's a freeze on there.  You could submit them to the post-release process, but that's still being founded.
<persia> txwikinger, Which is the virtual?
<txwikinger> Also the packages are pinned because I don't want php5.3 to load
<persia> iulian, Could you link to an example?
<txwikinger> phpapi-20090626
<txwikinger> iulian: did you look in the wiki at the bugs pages?
<nicoulaj> persia: Wow...ok, I'll come back next year then
<txwikinger> iulian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<persia> txwikinger, OK.  I'd recommend changing the line to "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, ${real-package} | phpapi-20090626"
<txwikinger> persia: ok. I will try that
<persia> If something that Provides: phpapi-20090626 is already installed, it will continue.  If not, it will select ${real-package}
<txwikinger> real-packages being one of the once that provide the virtual package?
<txwikinger> right.. good idea
<persia> nicoulaj, Apologies that you've caught us at a bad time.  Submitting through Debian ought work fine in a month or two, and we *really* hope to have something sane for straight-to-Ubuntu sometime in October.
<persia> txwikinger, Precisely.
<iulian> txwikinger: Oh, thanks for the link.
<persia> I believe it's required to be like that, but I can't remember the precise details just now.  Something about resolver internals.
<txwikinger> iulian: no problem
<nicoulaj> persia: Not a big deal, I'll just wait a few months, this is more by curiosity than a real need. Anyway, thanks for the infos and keep up the great work ;)
<geser> persia: fixing the ldc FTBFS is done; it's waiting in the unapproved queue
<persia> geser, I saw that :)  I'll find something else (there's plenty that FTBFS *only* on armel/powerpc, which I figure it's better to hunt as I likely can replicate (although some bugs are annoying, like hdf5 where I can't replicate the build failure, but the buildds can)
<geser> yeah, getting hdf5 fixed on armel would be really nice as it would unblock several other packages
<persia> Indeed.
<persia> But "builds for me" doesn't seem to convince the LP buildds to behave differently :)
<geser> persia: what's your idea on the graphviz-cairo FTBFS? I'm in favour of dropping the package
<geser> I looked already in lucid at that FTBFS and if I remember correctly it doesn't build due to changes in graphviz or so
<geser> as I couldn't find the exact location where it got downloaded, I don't know if there is a update for it
<persia> For hdf?
<persia> or for graphviz?
<geser> for graphviz-cairo
 * persia grumbles at empty README/NEWS/AUTHORS
#ubuntu-motu 2010-08-29
<jpds> persia: They could of at least put: "This file left intentionally blank".
<persia> It's from AT&T, not IBM
<persia> geser, Erm.  Seems I broke it.  Sorry.  I'll try to sort that.
<geser> persia: the last working upload was done in feisty, I doubt that code still works without changes to keep up with graphviz development
<persia> It doesn't.
<persia> Or rather, my patch didn't change that stuff: the failures come because the toolchain changed.
<persia> Upstream seems to have had a release 2007/01/12, which might help.
<geser> if I remember myself it's not only the error about NULL, if it would be only that, I would have fixed it for lucid. Once this error gets fixed others appear which I didn't figure out how to fix
 * persia hunts for newer/better upstream stuff
<geser> looking at the version numbers of graphviz in feisty, they were also 2.8 (like graphviz-cairo)
<geser> graphviz in maverick is at 2.26.3
<persia> graphviz-cairo source needs to be removed, based on graphviz 2.12-4 changelog.
<persia> So other stuff probably needs adjusted build-deps
<geser> nice, we could have dropped that package 3 years ago
<persia> Or not (`reverse-build-depends graphviz-cairo seems blank)
<persia> I wish I'd noticed this before uploading it.
<persia> We probably ought to look more closely at any other main->universe demotions: I wonder how much cruft is about.
<geser> persia: if you have some time: could you try to figure out the cause of the build-dependency problem of libfvm?
<geser> I tracked it once down to build-depending on two different libhdf5-*-dev package which conflict each other
<geser> but I didn't had time to check if Debian has the same problem (at least no bug is filed about it that I could find) and if Debian is not affected why then Ubuntu has this problem
<persia> I want to do a powerpc/armel obvious pass first, before digging too much (and have to do some plumbing (the stuff with water and pipes) today) :)
<geser> ok, have fun
<persia> geser, just FYI, I can replicate the libfvm issue in sid.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> Hello
<geser> bilalakhtar: Hi, could you merge nepenthes from Debian unstable? -6 fixes an license issue (RC bug in Debian)
<bilalakhtar> Thanks geser for notifying! of course I will!
<bilalakhtar> geser: hehe, done on my local sys
<bilalakhtar_> sorry, kernel panic
<Rhonda> huhm, wesnoth still in maverick, and wesnoth-1.8 still not synced? Was off for a week  %-/
<Laney> Rhonda: beta freeze is probably stopping archive admin activities
<Laney> (speculation)
<bilalakhtar> Thanks geser !
<AnAnt> is it possible to upgrade from 9.10 to 10.04.1 ?
<bilalakhtar> AnAnt: Yes of course, the only difference between 10.04 and *.1 is that *.1 has slightly more recent packages
<blk> i'm trying to add an additional define to my rules file for a cdbs/CMake project but i can't seem to make it work. i've tried adding lines like "DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS += -DFOO=BOOL:ON" or DEB_CMAKE_EXTRA_FLAGS as well as DEB_CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS and others. ideas?
<Rhonda> Laney: Going to check the bugreports that I filed.
<geser> Given a C header doing #include <endian.h> while a file "endian.h" exists in the upstream source and upstream code gets compiled with -I. Which header file will get included? the system one or the local one?
<Bachstelze> geser: the local one
<Bachstelze> -I adds the path on top of the search list
<geser> as I guessed, that explains http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49745563/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.uni2ascii_4.14-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> how to fix this? drop -I. from CFLAGS? rename the local endian.h?
<Bachstelze> depends
<Bachstelze> if there are other header files needed in the source directory, it probably won't work without -I
<Bachstelze> probably better to rename the upstream file
<Bachstelze> and report the name conflict as a bug upstream
<Bachstelze> geser: can you pastebin the contents of the upstream endian.h?
<geser> Bachstelze: http://paste.ubuntu.com/485603/
<Bachstelze> yeah, I guess there's no way around renaming it
<Bachstelze> since endian.h is non-standard, I don't think upstream will be willing to rename it themselves
<geser> thanks, renaming the header file fixed the FTBFS
<ari-tczew> how can I use cmake's options in debhelper7 in smaller way? debian/rules now looks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/485606/
<ari-tczew> I;m interested in one cmake option of these
<Laney> make use of override_dh_auto_configure:
<ari-tczew> Laney: yea, I looked on other packages for debhelper7. I found also override_dh_auto_build:
<Laney> right
<Laney> you can override any helper
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-22
<KNRO> Hi, on pbuilder-dist update, I get this error W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net natty Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 487CEC2B3F33A288
<KNRO> any idea why?
<lifeless> you probably haven't apt-key added the ppa; apt-add-repository should do that automatically for you
<KNRO> no that's not it.. that key is not my ppa key
<KNRO> the only I'm tryng pbuilder-dist to update from
<lifeless> that key is for 'Launchpad INDI'
<KNRO> yes...
<KNRO> pbuilder-dist natty update --othermirror "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mutlaqja/ppa/ubuntu natty main"
<KNRO> and that's the command...
<lifeless> and like I said, you probably apt-key added it
<KNRO> no hope! I tried doing sudo apt-key adv --recv-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com 487CEC2B3F33A288
<KNRO> still same result
<KNRO> I already have a gpg key imported for my launchpad ppa, however, pbuild-dist update still displays the same error : GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net natty Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 487CEC2B3F33A288
<KNRO> I tried apt-key add, add-apt-repository but nothing works
<KNRO> sudo apt-get update runs fine with no errors, just pbuilder-dist update gives that error
<jmarsden> KNRO: Maybe you need to apt-key ... that key inside the chroot??
<KNRO> how do I know if it's inside chroot?
<geser> KNRO: did you add that PPA key inside your normal system or inside the pbuilder environment?
<KNRO> I just did sudo apt-get add normally...
<KNRO> how can I add to it pbuilder environment?
<geser> then you only added it to your normal system and not the pbuilder
<KNRO> ok, how to add to pbuilder then?
<geser> "pbuilder-dist natty login --save-after-login" gives you a shell inside your pbuilder (the --save-after-login is important else your changes get thrown away at the end)
<jmarsden> KNRO: Something like   pbuilder login --save-after-login  ... then apt-key around in there and exit when done.
<geser> then add the key the same you did it before and you can use "apt-get update" to check if it runs now without any error message
<geser> if everything works as wanted "exit" the pbuilder and your changes get saved
<KNRO> ok let me try that
<OwaisL> What is the state of python-skype (Skype4Py) in Oneiric? I can't find the package anymore
<geser> OwaisL: it got removed in Debian and Ubuntu: (From Debian) RoQA; orphaned, low popcon; Debian bug #622667
<ubottu> Debian bug 622667 in ftp.debian.org "RM: skype4py -- RoQA; orphaned, low popcon" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/622667
<Laney> bdrung: can we upload u-d-t?
<tumbleweed> Laney: do we not want some bug closing in syncpackage?
<Laney> unless someone is actively working on it right now, I wouldn't delay putting the initial support out there
<Laney> (the announcement can mention the caveats)
<tumbleweed> yeah, nobody's working on it
<tumbleweed> Laney, cjwatson: I'm guessing we should make it check the sync blacklist too? It doesn't look like +localepackagediffs knows about it
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: meh, probably, yes
<jtaylor> is it normal that branches to be sponsored should have distro set to UNRELEASED?
<jtaylor> just got a few complaints in some of my as-needed branches, but its the first time I get that complaint
<jbicha> I always used oneiric but I was corrected today too
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: we do that in DPMT, as it makes good sense for trunk in team-maintained packages. I don't see a good reason to do it for proposed merges in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: endorsed your MOTU application
<jtaylor> :O it isn't finished yet :/
 * tumbleweed doesn't care
<jtaylor> but thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-23
<dholbach> good morning
<hakermania> tumbleweed, what an instant review! Thanks :D We have made ourselves the one sound, the other will be removed anyway :) As for the images they all come from public domains. Document them exactly as the Pictures/screen.png, or something additional?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: oh I forgot to mention, but there's a bunch of stuff in debian/install that probably isn't needed. I'd remove it all, test-build, and put back what was missing
<tumbleweed> hakermania: document copyright and licencing in debian/copyright
<hakermania> tumbleweed, it is needed. debian/install puts some files to the appropriate position. As for the 'documentation', does this mean to add some extra info, site URL for example of the public domain?
<tumbleweed> oh right you did for that one. Yeah more like that. Bonus points for mentioning where you got them from
<tumbleweed> hakermania: ok, why do you install data/doc/wallch/copyright /usr/share/doc/wallch/ ?
<tumbleweed> that overwrites debian/copyright
<hakermania> tumbleweed, oops, you're right
<hakermania> tumbleweed, we've made the notification sound, so it is included on the Files: *, OK?
<tumbleweed> fine
<hakermania> tumbleweed, the unistallation script uses /home/$(logname) because it has to be run with root priveleges and then ~ will be /root. Is this wrong?
<tumbleweed> yes, although that isn't used in the debian packaging, so we don't care too much
<tumbleweed> use ~logname
<tumbleweed> or even better, just don't delete it. A debian package wouldn't
<hakermania> tumbleweed, OK, I will just don't have the option to delete the configuration files from the unistallation script
<tumbleweed> if a user knows that running it will delete those files, that's fine. If they don't then you probably shouldn't. (again this has nothing to do with debian/ubuntu)
<hakermania> OK
<jtaylor> syncing new packages needs a ffe or?
<Laney> yes
<jtaylor> ones that aren't in oneiric yet
<jtaylor> k
<nigelb> unless its a bugfix. (I think)
<Laney> a bugfix new package?
<nigelb> bah, should read.
<nigelb> sorry.
<jtaylor> well python-traitsui is needed so python-chaco in oneric can be installed
<pmjdebruijn> hi all
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: that's pretty good argument for the FFe then
<pmjdebruijn> http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/libspice-server1
<pmjdebruijn> is anybody familiar with that construct?
<pmjdebruijn> [spice_0.8.2.orig-celt.tar.gz] [spice_0.8.2.orig.tar.bz2] [spice_0.8.2-1.debian.tar.gz]
<pmjdebruijn> two .orig files?
<tumbleweed> yes
<pmjdebruijn> how does it work?
<pmjdebruijn> just unter the second .orig.tar.gz into the other?
<Laney> jtaylor: is that accidental autosync fallout?
<pmjdebruijn> untar*
<tumbleweed> pmjdebruijn: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/07/how-to-use-multiple-upstream-tarballs-in-debian-source-packages/
<pmjdebruijn> ah cool, thanks
<pmjdebruijn> though one last question... is it compatible with PPA?
<jtaylor> Laney: I think yes, was synced 4 weeks ago
<tumbleweed> pmjdebruijn: yes, you can use it wherever you can use 3.0 (quilt)
<Laney> :(
<pmjdebruijn> tumbleweed: cool thanks!
<Laney> might as well have done a new-source run when that happened
<jtaylor> hm it is no new package, its a rename :/
<jtaylor> great it looks like a messed up transition
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: where you somehow involved with python-vtk?
<jtaylor> it only installs files for python2.7, causing mayavi (also accidentally synced) to ftbs
<tumbleweed> yeah I have that bug in an open tab
 * tumbleweed actually looks at it
<jtaylor> mayavi2 worked around this in debian by setting X-Python-Version to 2.6
<tumbleweed> yeah I'm trying to see how that worked
<tumbleweed> because vtk isn't built for 2.6
<tumbleweed> oh right, it is in debian
<jtaylor> yes
<tumbleweed> bug commented on
<jtaylor> I wrote a mail to the mayavi maintainer asking if there was another reason for this change
<jtaylor> bug number?
<tumbleweed> bug 831224
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831224 in mayavi2 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "mayavi2 version 4.0.0-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831224
<jtaylor> if not we could do the same workaround in ubuntu aftr we sync traitsui
<tumbleweed> yeah, vtk was manually changed to use 2.7
<jtaylor> can't vtk be fixed?
<tumbleweed> to use 2.6? We're trying to get rid of 2.6
<tumbleweed> vtk and mayavi2 should both be fixed in Debian to build with the default python version
<tumbleweed> unfortunatly that's not trivially simple any more, because we got rid of XS-P-V: current
<jtaylor> why can't vtk build for both python versions?
<tumbleweed> haven't tried, it may be possible
<tumbleweed> but we should still run mayavi2 on 2.7 unless we know it won't work
<jtaylor> it builds for 2.7, testing some runtime stuff
<jtaylor> mh also needs ffe for pyface
<jtaylor> and python-envisage -.-
<jtaylor> hm not fully functional
 * tumbleweed was planning to look at scientific packages for global jam. /me wonders if jtaylor will leave any for us (don't stop :) )
<jtaylor> ok now it all works
<jtaylor> I'll file the ffe's
<hakermania> tumbleweed, about Package doesnât clean correctly. "(You should be able to debuild -uc -us twice in a row)" Do you mean running in a terminal: debuild -uc -us; debuild -uc -us ?
<jtaylor> yes but better yet, pbuilder --build dsc --twice
<hakermania> jtaylor, I don't use pbuilder anyway. Should I use these commands except from normal debuild or debuild -S?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: aah, didn't know about --twice :)
 * tumbleweed wants something similar in sbuild
<hakermania> Can I use pbuilder as well for doing so? And again, should I run this instead of normal debuilding?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: you should test-build in pbuilder, because it's a clean environment (so it ensures your package has the correct Build-Deps)
<tumbleweed> it also means you don't need to run oneiric to build for oneiric
<hakermania> tumbleweed, running the debuild twice failed. It doesn't clean the generated translation files and so it sees them as changed files. How can I add a rule to clean them also? Inside the debian/rules or this will overwrite the cleaning rule?
<udienz> hi, what's limit of Ffe? i got mention that upstream project released new release. can i upload new release to oneiric?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: you should probably fix the upstream makefile to clean correctly, but the easy workaround for debian/ubunt is to put *.qm in debian/clean
<tumbleweed> udienz: there's no limit, you just need to justify that it's worth the risk
<hakermania> yee
<jtaylor> udienz: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess?
<jtaylor> ffe's for the enthough stuff filed
<udienz> jtaylor, tumbleweed: thanks i'll read about FFe and tested new version
<hakermania> tumbleweed, Ok, I documented the pictures, removed the hardcored /home and running debuild with the arguments you told twice worked OK. Uploading?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: those were all the issues I saw
<hakermania> tumbleweed, it seems that running debuild with the options you told doesn't signed the .changes with my GPG. I cannot upload
<tumbleweed> sign it with debsign, then
 * tumbleweed builds without uploading a lot more than for uploading, so -uc -us is automatic
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: for future, you can request it all in one FFe
<jtaylor> oh ok
<jtaylor> can syncrequests also be done in one bug?
<tumbleweed> these days all uploaders can process sync requests
<hakermania> Ok, thanks again, uploading :D
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: it would be helpful to include debc output in your build logs (I recommend some pbuilder hooks / sbuild)
<jtaylor> hm yes that would be useful, do you have a ready hook?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: there's one in examples
<jtaylor> thx
<joru> hi, a noob question. how can i know what packages are installed by default in say natty? (e.g. after a fresh install before adding ppa's and other repos)
<jtaylor> juru: apt-cache policy package  will show all available versions of a package and which is installed
<jtaylor> dpkg -l will list all installed packages
<jtaylor> with "ii" as status
<joru> jtaylor: ok that is good. so if there is a "candicate" for lets say the zip-package this will is included when i run an apt-get update?
<joru> jtaylor: and if i want do know which packages are included by default (fresh install) in a distro, do you know how to do that?
<joru> jtaylor: kinda like a diff of my local environment in rel to fresn install
<joru> fresh
<jtaylor> sorry I don't know if you can do that in a simple way
<joru> darn :)
<joru> maybe look into contents of one of the isos
<jtaylor> besides comparing dpkg -l output with a clean install
<joru> uups, wrong button
<joru> jtaylor: maybe the file here contains this sort of info? http://se.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/universe/binary-amd64/
<joru> jtaylor: some 25k packages in natty amd64
<jtaylor> joru: those are all packges, not all of these are installed in a default install
<joru> jtaylor: ok
<joru> jtaylor: such as depending on if installing the server or desktop edition i guess?
<joru> jtaylor: well in any case apt-cache policy is ok for me atm so thanks for the help
<jtaylor> maybe there is a Packages file on the install iso you can use
<joru> jtaylor: I will look into that. thanks
<tumbleweed> joru: debootstrap works out what ot install from Priority, but that's for a *minimal* install. For any of the standard install types, look at the meta-packages (i.e. ubuntu-desktop / ubuntu-standard)
<joru> tumbleweed: ah that is excellent
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-24
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<iulian> Morning.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<AnAnt> Hello
<geser> Hi
<sladen> hello geser
<sladen> hello AnAnt
<hrw> can someone sync bug 832692?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832692 in gtk-gnutella (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync gtk-gnutella 0.97-2 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832692
<geser> Hi sladen
<geser> hrw: you don't need a FFe for that as fixing a FTBFS isn't a new feature (FFe is more for new upstream revisions or when a new feature gets added to a package (e.g. enable linking against an additional library to enable a feature))
<geser> does somebody know if the LP sync button is already in the web UI or only in the API?
<hrw> geser: thx
<tumbleweed> geser: web ui, but we'd like everyone to use the API
<tumbleweed> also, be aware that it won't currently close bugs on upload
<hakermania> How many hours remain till last-last-last Freeze???
<tumbleweed> hakermania: wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<hakermania> tumbleweed, the exception is till Final Freeze?
<jtaylor> what is that for an error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/673760/
<geser> tumbleweed: doesn't the web ui use the same LP API call?
<tumbleweed> geser: yes
<geser> but I have to use the (updated) syncpackage script and can't push a button on the web ui?
<tumbleweed> geser: bug 830584 for some of the issues we have wit hthe web ui
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 830584 in Launchpad itself "Concerns about the use of +localpackagediffs in Ubuntu" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830584
 * tumbleweed has a quick look at adding sync blacklist support to syncpackage
<geser> jtaylor: that usually happens when there are no files to build the deb from (e.g. when the package uses only build_indep but some packages in debian/control mention they are arch-specific)
<jtaylor> ah ok
<jtaylor> its a i386 and I'm trying to build on amd64
<Rhonda> Laney: I'm up to 5 caches in 5 days, need to do one today still. :)
<AnAnt> Hello
<hakermania> AnAnt, hi :P
<geser> tumbleweed: thanks for the bug number
<geser> it would be quite handy to just press a button in the web browser to sponsor a sync request
<tumbleweed> geser: yeah. The plan was always to make sponsor-patch handle sync sponsoring too (responsible sponsors test-build :) )
<Laney> Rhonda: still without a gps?
<geser> Geo-caching without a GPS?
<hakermania> Sorry, the feature freeze exception is till the final freeze?
<Laney> yes
<hakermania> Nice! Much more time :)
<Laney> erm, not really
<Laney> it gets harder to justify the addition of new stuff as the release comes closer
<hakermania> Laney, why so? Because of loads of work?
<Laney> because we need to be concentrating on fixing bugs and not introducing new things, and as new source packages take up a lot of time (as you are seeing with your reviews) there needs to be a good reason for them.
<hakermania> Laney, they take a lot of time as for the uploader, not as for the reviewer, I think... See, this is the try of one of the reviewers to build my package. It failed but it took no more than a minute: http://paste.ubuntu.com/669042/
<Laney> right
<Laney> so tumbleweed has not spent much time working with you on this package?
<tumbleweed> jtalyor too
<hakermania> Laney, yes ofcourse they have. But that's only because I'm newbie :|
<tumbleweed> as a reviewer, I'd argue reviewers probably spend more time reviewing things than some people spend preparing them
<hakermania> tumbleweed, that's doesn't apply on me actually, being a new coder and packager, is a hard work understanding how things work or should have worked. But thanks to you guys now all are more clear. Also, an experienced packager wouldn't need so much guidance and repeatation.
<Rhonda> Laney: yes, still without gps.
<Rhonda> geser: yep. :)
<Laney> :)
<Laney> the one on my phone works well enough
<Rhonda> the one in google maps works well enough
<Rhonda> At least within a city as Vienna
<Laney> i find openstreetmap better as it marks more features
<tumbleweed> hakermania: of course, just responding to "they take a lot of time as for the uploader, not as for the reviewer, I think..."
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I'd really one day have as a hoppy fixing bugs :D
<cjwatson> there's a certain amount of general archive maintenance work which kind of mounts up for every extra package in the archive, and packages introduced too late can be problematic there
<hakermania> love^
<cjwatson> it's not just review time
<hakermania> cjwatson, do you refer to the new packages after FF?
<Laney> right, it's not just about regressions or bugs in the distribution, it is about the time of people who have to deal with them
<cjwatson> hakermania: I do
 * cjwatson notes that he has spent most of the last week doing very little else but cleaning up after packages people weren't keeping properly up to date in various ways
<Rhonda> Laney: well, google maps is integrated directly in geocaching.com website
<Laney> you can get on OSM there too
<Laney> "View dynamic map" or similar
<Laney> cjwatson: we need to do more to get people to care for transitions they start, certainly
<hakermania> cjwatson, this is unhappy, does this come from unresponsible uploaders? Uploaders don't care if their packages don't build in new ubuntu versions?
<cjwatson> not all the problems are easy for people to notice, and many of the packages are just synced from Debian and don't have a specific Ubuntu uploader but need to be poked for Ubuntu in some way
<cjwatson> but yes, some of them are just semi-abandoned
<Laney> a lot of stuff certainly could have been predicted (libav...)
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> I don't know why that was left for so long; I assume somebody got busys
<cjwatson> *busy
<cjwatson> but anyway, this contributes to more caution about adding extra packages late
<hakermania> cjwatson, that's one reason why having a package 1stly go through debian and then import it to ubuntu is not a good idea?
<cjwatson> no no no no no
<cjwatson> please do that whenever you can
<hakermania> xD
<cjwatson> for the most part it's much less work for us and does more good for more people
<cjwatson> but people do need to keep an eye on health in Ubuntu as well
<cjwatson> I absolutely think people should work through Debian whenever it make sense
<cjwatson> *makes
<hakermania> cjwatson, So, mainly, the best way is to build a package wherever, test it that it works both on debian and ubuntu, send it to debian and import it to ubuntu :)
<paultag> yes :)
<paultag> just like fixing a bug in the kernel is better served in linux, and not here in Ubuntu
<cjwatson> the problems I'm working on are not about things that worked at the time they were first built, they're about keeping up to date with library changes and the like
<cjwatson> packages don't tend to exist in glorious isolation with no changes required
<hakermania> I feel a bit guilty for sending my package to revu now ._. But Ubuntu is so excellent and up-to-date that it *HAS* to have its very-own programs
<paultag> hakermania: it's actually not that much more up to date then Debian
<paultag> hakermania: you might be thinking of debian stable? Unstable and Testing both have really up to date stuff. It's where we pull from for Ubuntu
<paultag> something crazy like upwards of 75% of our packages are direct clones from Debian
<Laney> huh, I went to look at the graph but it looks like MoM is borked and didn't generate the entire page
<Laney> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-now.png
<cjwatson> I don't think you should feel *guilty* about it, but it might be worth considering sending your next one to Debian
<hakermania> paultag, I downloaded the last version of debian (the one with a space rocket or similar, lol) and when i tried installing there my package it said that multiple dependencies were missing, though the debian system itself was up-to-date
<paultag> hakermania: it's rock solid here. The reason Ubuntu's so stable is because Debian is. We have a great relationship with them
<cjwatson> Laney: *cough* looks like I might have left the lock held when I was last working on MoM disk space :-/
<cjwatson> fixed I hope
<Laney> heh
<hakermania> paultag, I understand
<tumbleweed> bdrung, cjwatson: sync blacklist detection for syncpackage proposed
<Laney> Rhonda: I placed a cache outside my office window â sometimes I get to watch people looking for it :-)
<Laney> (like now)
<cjwatson> hakermania: you can't necessarily take a package built on Ubuntu or on a newer Debian version and install it on Debian stable; this is also true of building a package on oneiric and trying to install it on, say, lulcid
<cjwatson> *lucid
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have the time to add a bug closing feature to the tool?
<cjwatson> it needs to be built for the release in question
<tumbleweed> bdrung: working on that next
<tumbleweed> bdrung: although I see talk of that happening in LP now
<hakermania> cjwatson, so how can you test your program in both Debian and Ubuntu?
<Laney> wouldn't it be nice if launchpad had a real blacklist feature?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: at least -b should work (or throw an error)
<cjwatson> hakermania: note that you said that, I diddn't
<cjwatson> hakermania: but building it on the *oldest* usually works; or just build it for both
<cjwatson> building it for both isn't usually necessary unless you depend on fast-moving libraries
<hakermania> cjwatson, 'you' was general, thanks for the info
<cjwatson> usually testing it on the one you upload to is sufficient
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is_blacklisted could get a comment
<tumbleweed> fair enough
<bdrung> tumbleweed: login_anonymously is enough for the old sync way
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yes, but I don't see the point of that (and the launchpad people really don't seem to like people using anonymous logins)
<tumbleweed> they weren't very interested in ubuntu-sponsoring breaking when logged in anonymously
<bdrung> tumbleweed: but why should syncpackage require the credentials if it is not needed?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no, but I think that'll be a minority use case
<bdrung> tumbleweed: but not impossible
<tumbleweed> bdrung:
<tumbleweed> < lifeless> we only really support anonymous API access for folk doing experimentation in browsers etc - thats the primary anonymous use case.
<tumbleweed> < tumbleweed> lifeless: I wish that were better documented. I use anonymous API access whenever I can
<bdrung> hm, okay
<hakermania>  Ubuntu-humour :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze
<nigelb> that sounds like robbie.
<nigelb> yep, robbie.
<log69> hi all! anyone interested in helping me test my software: tomld? security related stuff. I'm about to release my first stable version soon. I gladly take any opinions or feedback of it. my site: http://log69.com/tomld_en.html
<hakermania> log69, hi! You can also make a post at ubuntuforums.org about this.
<log69> hakermania: ok
<hakermania> Laney, what does this guy says here: bug 824102 ? :( I thought it was till FinalFreeze :'(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824102 in Ubuntu "FFE: Wallch 2.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824102
<tumbleweed> hakermania: firstly, it's not a guy. And I don't think the UI Freeze is relevant here. But I also don't think the FFe is valid forever.
<hakermania> tumbleweed, you said that because it's a woman? Sorry for the slang, but I use 'guy' for everyone :) I knwo FFe is not valid 4ever, it's till September 29th.
<tumbleweed> at some point it should be re-evaluate is what I'm saying. I've asked her why she thinks UI freeze applies here
<tumbleweed> hakermania: is it ready for another review? or are there still issues?
<hakermania> tumbleweed, my co-developer just noticed something in the Help Files (Contents) so fixing it and it will be ready
<iulian> hakermania: Every single day counts here and thus if you wait till the 29th of September, I'm afraid that it's not gonna get in. You have to be utterly lucky to find an archive admin to review new packages that late in the cycle.
<hakermania> iulian, I am optimistic enough to believe that the package is fine
<hakermania> It will be advocateed soon
<iulian> The sooner the better.
<hakermania> iulian, not in bed o.O
<iulian> Er?
<hakermania> iulian, nothing :D
<tumbleweed> considering that some of us spent half the last feature freeze looking at it too, I'd be only to glad to see it accepted :)
<tumbleweed> (which begs the question of why it took so long. and in future, please try to get new versions in before FF)
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I know. I was a #%$#&$ (censored) doing so but we are in the last year of school and the most vital for our life, so we didn't have enough time to develop the application prior to FF
<hakermania> tumbleweed, thanks :D When I told my dad about how helpful and patient some people are answered that that's the reason why this world will always tend to become better even if it seems things go bad
<hakermania> I dunno if that's true :)
<tumbleweed> np. We also didn't put much effort into reviews for you before FF. But that's part of the problem with REVU
<hakermania> tumbleweed, if you can, please delete the older build tries stored at revu. They don't need to take web space there.
<tumbleweed> sorry, I'm not a revu admin. I assume everything is kept purposely. It can be deleted when uploaded to Ubuntu
<hakermania> tumbleweed: if you do review wallch now, don't! We forgot to remove the freeware non-commercial icons from the mime types :((((((((((
<tumbleweed> don't worry, I'm waiting for you to tell me to
<hakermania> ouf
<hakermania> glad you don't trust me hehe
<ajmitch> morning
<hakermania> ajmitch, it 23:31 here :P
<hakermania> it's*
<ajmitch> yes, it'll always be night somewhere in the world :)
<hakermania> tumbleweed, if we have made a synthesis of 2 files from a public domain should we mention that in copyright? Or the copyright of the file has passed to us as GPL3 now?
<tumbleweed> mention it, if you don't document it, you'll forget, and then if anyone asks...
<hakermania> +1
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I tell you to D
<hakermania> xD
<tumbleweed> hakermania: ok, I'll look in half an hour or so
<hakermania> tumbleweed, excellent :)
<al-maisan> hello there, can somebody please shed light on the "install_egg_info" action/target, I am seeing this while building a source package in pbuilder: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/674131/
<al-maisan> it's a python package FWIW
<tumbleweed> al-maisan: it's metadata used by distribute / setuptools / pkg-resources
<al-maisan> Is there a way to turn this off? Or should I leave it alone?
<tumbleweed> leave it be
<al-maisan> ok, thanks tumbleweed !
<Laney> I shouldn't have approved that ffe until the package was closer to being ready
<Laney> it's not an open ended "now you can take as long as you want" ticket
<tumbleweed> Laney: this is how we learn :)
<ajmitch> Laney: I'll have to file a FFe for you to approve & then leave it until a day before release, shall I? :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: oh, I'd appreciate it i fyou could play with/review my syncpackage merges
<bdrung> tumbleweed: tomorrow
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have to write in my diary and then go to bed
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ups, you asked Laney - i was highlighted due to the keyword syncpackage :)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: heh
<bdrung> tumbleweed: after a quick look. test cases! test cases! test cases!
<Laney> heh
<ajmitch> does syncpackage work in new & interesting ways now?
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's why it needs some manual testing
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: native package sync
<bdrung> ajmitch: especially interesting ways ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: really I wish I could, but that's a *massive* job
<ajmitch> right, I saw mention of that on irc, wasn't sure if it was in production LP yet
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i know, but someone needs to start. otherwise the quality won't improve
<ajmitch> at least most of the testing should have been done on the server side :)
<bdrung> ajmitch: it will be announced once the new syncpackage is released (and hopefully after some blocker bugs are fixed)
<ajmitch> bdrung: right
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: well, we found a whole buch of issues when we started trying to use it...
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: that's the nature of it
<tumbleweed> yeah
<ajmitch> it'll be good to lessen the load on archive admins, even if it was relatively straightforward
<tumbleweed> right, which is why we want a client interface that works nicely
 * tumbleweed promised quick turnaround on that dh_python2 ffe /me better look at it
<ajmitch> that reminds me, I think I have one ffe I need to file for that
<hakermania> tumbleweed, translations are Ok, seriously
<tumbleweed> hakermania: ohreally? http://paste.ubuntu.com/674171/
<hakermania> tumbleweed, see ./usr/share/wallch/translations/ ?
<hakermania> Files are in there
<hakermania> I just create the .qm files, move them to data/to_usr_share/wallch/translations and copy recursively this folder to $PREFIX
<tumbleweed> hakermania: if they were there, they'd be listed. They aren't.
<hakermania> i'll test it again :/
<hakermania> tumbleweed: http://i.imgur.com/JZlmc.png
<hakermania> See the md5sum
<tumbleweed> hakermania: the md5sum will be different every time you build it. run debc, and you'll also see they aren't there
<hakermania> tumbleweed, watch seriously the screenshot, the /usr/share/wallch doesn't exit ('ls' says it) and wallch binary isn't there ('which' says it), I run dpkg -i *.deb and then I ls /usr/share/wallch/translations and files are there
<hakermania> All these plus the md5sum are in the screenshot
<hakermania> And the md5sum of the DEB with the one I uploaded to revu are *exactly* the same
<tumbleweed> hakermania: it's not about the deb you upload, it's about what deb gets produced when *I* (or anyone else) builds it
<hakermania> why should be different?
<ajmitch> especially as only source packages are uploaded to ubuntu, so what counts is the binary package that the buildds produce
<tumbleweed> it shouldn't
<hakermania> tumbleweed, why it IS?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: have you run debc on the deb you built. Are the translations there?
<hakermania> tumbleweed, it says it can't read the .changes file
<tumbleweed> point it at the _i386.changes file
<hakermania> oh
<hakermania> tumbleweed, yes, they are http://i.imgur.com/6H0WO.png
<cjwatson> why is the man page in section 2?
<tumbleweed> hrm, interesting
<hakermania> tumbleweed, yes, indeed :D
<ajmitch> possibly a missing build-dependency for building translations
<hakermania> cjwatson, are you talking to me?
<cjwatson> yes
<hakermania> cjwatson, lintian told me that it should be there (it is wallch 2.0 no 1.0)
<cjwatson> you misread it
<hakermania> :|
<cjwatson> the version number of the software is irrelevant
<cjwatson> section 2 is for system calls - the interface between the kernel and userspace
<hakermania> cjwatson, omg :)
<cjwatson> manual pages for ordinary user programs belong in section 1
<hakermania> cjwatson, well, I will fix this ;)
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> lintian was probably identifying some other real problem, but without seeing the exact warning it gave you it's hard to say exactly what
<tumbleweed> hakermania: it was actually due to the --parallel. Your changes to the qm file installation aren't parallel-make-safe
<hakermania> tumbleweed, Yeah, i can understand why.
<hakermania> They are built and then moved to $prefix/share/wallch/translations, if this isn't done with the right order nothing will be moved
<tumbleweed> right, and make doesn't guarantee the order rules will be run in
<hakermania> So, should I just remove the parallel?
<tumbleweed> I'd fix the makefile :)
<hakermania> tumbleweed, hm, a clever thought would be to make the same rule building and moving the files, I'll try this, but I won't be able to test if it will work or not :/ I may still work for me but not for you
<hakermania> How could I test it?
<hakermania> It*
<cjwatson> dependencies are the usual way to force things in the correct order
<hakermania> also data/mime contain a wallch.xml file which is ours, so I will prefer the data/mime/x/* format
<cjwatson> I find it hard to believe that --parallel gains you any significant amount of build time
<hakermania> cjwatson, sorry but i don't get you. The only thing i know about dependencies are the build ones and the normal ones :/
<tumbleweed> in this case install_helpfiles_and_translations builds the translations, install_configfiles installs them
<tumbleweed> it really should just be tidied
<hakermania> Yeah, I see
<cjwatson> the concept is explained in make's documentation, although I haven't looked at your build system in any detail
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: yeah I askedb for that because I'd built it a few times, and it's nice to have something build almost 8 times as fast...
<cjwatson> ccache :)
 * tumbleweed hasn't set that up in my sbuild
<hakermania> tumbleweed, yes, it should be tidied but I assumed that while I INSTALLS 1stly the one and then the other the job will be done correctly
<hakermania> tumbleweed, about the synthesized image, i'd like to completely remove the info from the copyright, we are the holders and this goes to *
<hakermania> Files: *^
<tumbleweed> hakermania: fine, I don't care that much (I've made you review the copyright on the images, that was the most important thing)
<tumbleweed> if install_configfiles depends on things from install_helpfiles_and_translations, it should depend on install_helpfiles_and_translations
<tumbleweed> really I think you should separate the translations and helpfiles (tehy got to separate places) and remove configfiles (you don't have any)
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I thought separating the helpfiles from translations, removing completely translations and making unix:configfiles.extra and there making the translation binaries
<hakermania> it's all in one, they are moved by configfiles and build from configfiles, i'm just saying
<hakermania> If the unix commands are run firstly and then it installs the target to path, problem solved. One moment to test it :D
<tumbleweed> oh also when chaining commands together you should probably use && rather than ;
<hakermania> hm
<hakermania> ok, thanks
<tumbleweed> otherwise if one of the ones in the middle fails, you'll never know
<hakermania> yeah, it is as I said
<hakermania> cjwatson: I don't think that I didn't understood correctly, the error is: W: wallch: manpage-section-mismatch /usr/share/man/man1/wallch.1.gz:1 1 != 2
<hakermania> ohhh
<hakermania> just change the 1.gz to 2.gz?
<cjwatson> no absolute not
<cjwatson> *absolutely
<cjwatson> it says that because the .TH field in your manual page says 2.  change it to 1
<cjwatson> if you run the output from lintian through the lintian-info program, it will give you more information
<cjwatson> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/manpage-section-mismatch.html
<hakermania> cjwatson, I am curious to know why the error was gone when I moved it to man2
<cjwatson> because then the file name and the .TH header matched - that's all that check tests
<cjwatson> that doesn't mean that the admittedly consistent state you ended up in was correct
<hakermania> cjwatson, thx :)
<hakermania> Of :) there's a new upload... enough for today I think, goodnight it's almost hald past too and I miss my bed :P thanks guys again for all the help :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-25
 * Rhonda sighs at bug #833228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833228 in wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) "Server and campaigns aren't presented as optional installs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833228
<Rhonda> Actually, I don't understand the bugreport.  Does ubuntu change the meaning of recommends/suggests, I can't find anything "add-ons" in the software center application (on my Debian system, though)?
<ajmitch> I think the software centre may have changed its UI a bit in oneiric, but I haven't used it to try
<Rhonda> Ah, and not uploaded to Debian since â¦ 2.0.7  *yuck*
<Rhonda> Should have checked first that I'm outdated. :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, so where to head for a geocache today.
<jbicha> Rhonda: it looks to me like Ubuntu Software Center uses wesnoth-1.8-core as the primary app since it has a .desktop
<jbicha> and because it doesn't recommend the campaigns, they don't show up as "addons"
<Rhonda> jbicha: Erm, I think that was ruled out before already, that is an issue I remember from about 2 years ago
<jbicha> suggests works also
<jbicha> if you look at thunderbird, you can see the addons presented
<Rhonda> But the whole point of the wesnoth-1.8 and wesnoth-1.8-core separation is to have one that gets you all the campaigns, and one that doesn't
<jbicha> right
<jbicha> but suggests might be ok
<Rhonda> If you go to the wesnoth-1.8 package in software center, do you see the music as add-on?
<jbicha> Rhonda: no, but that isn't a suggests of wesnoth-1.8 either
<Rhonda> It is?
<Rhonda> $ apt-cache show wesnoth-1.8 | grep music
<Rhonda> Recommends: wesnoth-1.8-music (= 1:1.8.5-1)
<jbicha> it is an addon for wesnoth-1.8-data though
<jbicha> sorry I meant it wasn't a suggests of wesnoth-1.8-core since that has the .desktop
<Rhonda> I think it might be time that I at least install me ubuntu in some virtual environment and run it within a window.  %-)
<Rhonda> jbicha: But the bug reporter didn't speak about the -core package, explicitly hinted that he wanted to unselect some campaigns.
<jbicha> this is a guess, but app-install-data-ubuntu might need to be regenerated for your changes to take effect anyway
<Rhonda> Any suggestions on what to use to run another environment with X inside a window?
<Rhonda> â¦ besides qemu? :)
<jbicha> I believe USC magically uses the .desktop to represent the package without showing that it's actually the -core package
<jbicha> but I might be rather confused too
<jbicha> version says "wesnoth-1.8 1:1.8.6-1" so I guess I was wrong about the -core part
 * Rhonda sticks her tongue at jbicha ;)
<jbicha> what? you don't like me making it up as I go?
<Rhonda> Sure, go ahead, just teasing. :)
<jbicha> Rhonda: I use VirtualBox which is a bit more heavyweight than qemu or xen but it's easier to use
<jbicha> maybe Enhances: would work
<jbicha> I see that Thunderbird suggests latex-xft-fonts and libthai and those aren't shown as addons
<Rhonda> Software Center would be the first application to support enhances then. :D
<Rhonda> Always liked that relationship field actually.  I guess I have to rethink the dependencies once again, but it's already so heavy and complicated it makes my head ache â¦
<Rhonda> 27 binaries from that source  %-)
<jbicha> actually, installing Wesnoth from Software Center installs everything except for the server, music, and tools
<jbicha> so we don't need to worry about the campaigns since the user will already have those
<ajmitch> Rhonda: use virtualbox
<ajmitch> & I see that jbicha already suggested that, I'm too slow :)
<Rhonda> jbicha: I wonder about music because music is in recommends.
<jbicha> music is hidden as a "technical item", that might be why it doesn't show as an addon
<jbicha> nope, muttprint is hidden too but it still shows up for thunderbird
<jbicha> enhances is still my best guess
<micahg> enhances is probably it :)
 * Rhonda goes and throws in Enhances just for the sake of it.
<dholbach> good morning
<mase_work> morn dholbach
<dholbach> hi mase_work
<Rhonda> jbicha, ajmitch: Looking into Xephyr together with lxc now. :)
<hakermania> tumbleweed, thanks for the advocation. I'd left the .qm files accidentaly to data/to_usr_share/wallch/translations, but it isn't a problem as the clean rule wipes them and rebuilds from  the .ts file placed at data/translations, right?
<hakermania> micahg, are you interested in advocating wallch :) ? If you have time and apetite of course :)
<micahg> hakermania: sorry, in the middle of something ATM
<hakermania> micahg, ok, no problem, I'll try to find somebody else :)
<pmjdebruijn> hi folsk
<pmjdebruijn> I'm trying to backport libvirt (_with_ macvtap)
<pmjdebruijn> libvirt's configure checks the installed headers for macvtap support
<pmjdebruijn> which fails on 2.6.32 (lucid)
<pmjdebruijn> install the 2.6.35 headers packages on lucid doesn't help as it seems the configure scripts seems to check the matching headers of the running kernel
<pmjdebruijn> though I can't influence the running kernel on the ppa buildfarm
<pmjdebruijn> any advice on dealing with this?
<pmjdebruijn> maybe just patch the configure to a static kernel and install the 2.6.35 kernel headers as a build dependancy
<pmjdebruijn> ?
<cjwatson> I would be inclined to patch configure.ac to allow overriding that check using a --enable-* option, if it doesn't have such an option already
<cjwatson> or if you aren't familiar with autoconf you could just hack the test out and force it to true
<hakermania> cjwatson, are a reviewer? (you know what I want xD)
<cjwatson> sorry, no time
<pmjdebruijn> cjwatson: thanks
<hakermania> cjwatson, ok, np
<al-maisan> hello there, how do I find a specific orig tar ball in the primary archive?
<al-maisan> also, is there a way to copy an entire package from the primary archive to a ppa?
<hakermania> What is the 'Archive+' button on the right? http://i.imgur.com/lz0yx.png
<Rhonda> al-maisan: you go to the pool directory of the package, or go to http://packages.ubuntu.com/packagename and follow the links from there
<al-maisan> Rhonda: thanks, will try that.
<jbicha> Rhonda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Add-on_packages
<Rhonda> jbicha: Then I wonder why the music package doesn't show up in the add-ons
<jbicha> Rhonda: I'm guessing a simple suggests isn't enough; that specification isn't 100% reality
<Rhonda> It's a Recommends, not a Suggests
<jbicha> Rhonda: bug 833650 filed :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 833650 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Recommended packages don't show up as addons in USC" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833650
<geser> al-maisan: LP has the links to the .orig.tar.gz (and the other files too) in the web UI too
<geser> al-maisan: what's your use-case for copy main-archive -> PPA?
<al-maisan> it's the python-ampqlib rev. 1.0.0 that was uploaded to oneiric recently .. I need to make use of it in natty
<al-maisan> geser: I did find the LP links on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/python-amqplib
<al-maisan> thanks :)
<geser> al-maisan: it's better to do a "backport" into your PPA instead of just copying it (think of upgrades from natty + your PPA to oneiric when both have the same version but are different)
<al-maisan> I re-uploaded the package in question to the PPA: is that the backport approach you had in mind?
<geser> unless you copy source+binaries (if the depends can be satisfied on natty)
<al-maisan> geser: I realised that copying that package was not ideal .. hence re-uploaded it to the PPA
<geser> al-maisan: yes, did you "downgrade" the version to be less than oneiric so dist-upgrade will update it to the oneiric one in future?
<al-maisan> geser: yup .. I used "natty"
<al-maisan> thanks for your advice geser !!
<dholbach> tumbleweed, bdrung: did you have a think about a check-before-submit tool? (basically sponsor-patch, but just something that new contributors could use)? I was just having a look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-developer-initiatives again
 * tumbleweed had forgotten about that
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> tumbleweed: we setup a totall of 1 challenge this cycle.
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> maybe we should first sit down and plot what challenges are possible in a cycle and work from there
<Laney> we should get a good programme of challenges going
<Laney> maybe make each one last 2-3 weeks
<nigelb> I'm happy to help do the coordination bits
 * ajmitch wonders what these challenges are
<tumbleweed> a range of related, easy bugs, I guess
<geser> do we get achievement points for finishing challenges? :)
 * ajmitch needs to do something easy
<ajmitch> geser: you get hugs from dholbach :)
<tumbleweed> first rule of ubuntu development: you're never finished :)
<dholbach> :-)
 * hakermania pokes sladen
<Laney> examples might be some subset of ftbfs, simple porting (nbs) or fixing problems flagged up by piuparts or whatever
<Rhonda> Is it possible to see the ratings of packages that software center displays somewhere on the web?
<hakermania> Ok, i have a question, if a file has CC0 license is it enough to provide the online link? If not, what name should have the file provided inside the source?
<hakermania> Because the cc0 doesn't seem to be at /usr/share/common-licenses
<sladen> hyperair: sorry you didn't get an answer yet :(
<hyperair> eh?
<hyperair> what answer?
 * hyperair gives sladen a confused stare.
<sladen> hyperair: I was helping hakermania but need to do UI-Freeze things, so bounced hakermania to #ubuntu-motu
<sladen> in the hope that somebody else could take over with the question above
<sladen> and then pressed   h<tab>
<hyperair> aaah
<hyperair> right.
<hyperair> okay
<cjwatson> hakermania: you should copy the text of the licence into debian/copyright
<cjwatson> it is not enough to link to it
<paultag> hey cjwatson, congrats dude
<cjwatson> thanks :)
<andy753421> Could I trouble someone in ubuntu-sponsors to finish a sync request for me for launchpad bugs 832611, 832613, and 832614?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832613 in Ubuntu "Sync libgrits 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832613
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832611 in Ubuntu "Sync aweather 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832611
<andy753421> The feature freeze was approved, so i think it just need to be synced? (sorry for the last minute rush, and for cross-posting in #ubuntu-devel as well)
<tumbleweed> andy753421: happy to sponsor that
<hakermania> cjwatson, what if the files are 2? 2 with the same license but bot with different copyright holder
<hakermania> and different info (different online link)
<cjwatson> debian/copyright is allowed to have multiple licences in it!
<hakermania> cjwatson, yes, i mean should I dublicate entry of the same license because of different copyright
<cjwatson> that's not normally necessary, no
<cjwatson> different online link is irrelevant if the actual licence is the same
<hakermania> cjwatson, so say both names in the copyright, same license and below the license to place the info about the links.
<hakermania> ?
<cjwatson> sounds plausible enough, as long as it has all the information in it
<cjwatson> (there is a machine-readable format with stricter rules which we'll probably move everything to eventually, but you're still allowed to write just free text)
<hakermania> cjwatson, the whole CC0 is 121 lines o.O
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: may I syncpackage some NEW uploads, or would you prefer to process those manually? (the ones andy753421 mentioned above)
<hakermania> cjwatson, is this a problem? It doesn't seem to have a brief description of the cc0, like gpl3 has
<tumbleweed> hakermania: yes, you include tho whole thing. It's a pain, yes
<tumbleweed> the only reason we don't do that for gpl is because it's in /usr/share/common-licences
<cjwatson> hakermania: including the whole thing is just fine
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: syncpackaging them is fine provided you/he don't mind them being credited to you
<hakermania> Is it correct to say: For the specific files, the copyrights holders are displayed respectively to each image
<hakermania> ?
 * tumbleweed doesn't understand that
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I mean that the First person mentioned at the Copyright field is the one who owns the copyrights of the first pic, the 2nd is the one of the 2nd pic, how would I say that in english? Also should I add a .(dot) in every empty newline of CC0, as in GPL3?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: separate Files+Licence+Copyright blocks. You don't need the full licence body every time, you only need it once. See the examples in DEP5
<hakermania> tumbleweed, in this example (from DEP5), there are 2 entries of the PSF-2 license, in both it seems to use full body
<hakermania> http://paste.ubuntu.com/674623/
<hakermania> (it doesn't say that PSF-2 license text have been mentioned above etc)
<tumbleweed> hakermania: yeah, that's a bad example. Look at the bits about standalone licence paragraphs
<hakermania> aha,now its clear
<hakermania> jbicha, I can confirm your bug in 11.10 alpha 3... The add-on being in 'recommends' field doesn't show up either in my DEB if opened with USC
<andy7534212> tumbleweed: thanks for syncing librsl and libgrits, are you planning on syncing aweather as well?
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: You're on for DMB? :D
<ahasenack> hmm, is this a recent change perhaps? I noticed "bzr commit" is working like "debcommit" now
<ahasenack> for example, I did a quick debian/changelog change, ran "bzr commit" fully expecting an editor to open, but it used the changelog change as the commit message
<ahasenack> I'm on lucid, but using bzr from the ppa
<ahasenack> 2.4.0-1~bazaar1~lucid1
<andy7534212> tumbleweed: (or someone else) any chance of getting bug 832611 synched in the next hour or so before the beta freeze?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832611 in Ubuntu "Sync aweather 0.5.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832611
<jtaylor> andy753421: it will be synced, beta freeze does not invalidate ffe's for new packages
<jtaylor> andy7534212: ^
<andy7534212> jtaylor: ah, the comment on the bug log said (if done before beta freeze) so I thought it had to be done right away
<micahg> jtaylor: well, the approval is contingent on being completed before beta release, I think that's the concern
<jtaylor> oh
<jtaylor> as its two deps where already synced for it already I'm sure it will get reapproved
<tumbleweed> andy7534212: sorry, I missed that one
<tumbleweed> looking at that now
<micahg> tumbleweed: actually I'm about to ACK it
<tumbleweed> micahg: go ahead then (I was going to syncpackage)
<micahg> tumbleweed: go for it then :)
<tumbleweed> have you test built it? :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: yes, test built on amd64
<tumbleweed> cool :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: my only concern is the other libs haven't built on powerpc/armel yet
<micahg> but there's not really time to wait I guess
<tumbleweed> they built everywhere in Debian
<tumbleweed> whoops https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue
<micahg> tumbleweed: no worries, one will get rejected
<micahg> tumbleweed: oh, hmm, was that syncpackage?
<tumbleweed> first time I ran it, I hadn't bzr pulled-ed so it didn't close the bug
<tumbleweed> I assumed it would auto-reject the second one, but in hindsight, obviously not
<jtaylor> what is with the enthough 4 syncs? should they also be done before beta freeze?
<jtaylor> pyface, envisage, traitsui
<micahg> tumbleweed: well, the bug is closed now, so either should be fine :)
<andy7534212> tumbleweed/micahg/jtaylor: great, thank you
 * micahg wishes the lack of +uploaded-packages recognition will get fixed soon
<tumbleweed> micahg: bigjools seems to be working through them all quite fast
<tumbleweed> Quintasan: heh, I'm running, I have low hopes. But it is something Im' interested in and pay attention to...
<micahg> tumbleweed: yep, waiting anxiously
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: +1 :P
<hakermania> Ouao, it's exciting watching Ubuntu guys working on it :D
<jtaylor> why are packages which have not been multiarched install into mutliarch paths?
<jtaylor> I have seen this in a few ftbs already
<micahg> jtaylor: maybe they're not overriding sane defaults?
<jtaylor> I don't get where the paths are coming from
<jtaylor> ok it appears to be QT_INSTALL_PLUGINS
<jtaylor> which is set to multiarch by default
<jtaylor> can I leave that or will it fail at runtime?
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Oneiric: Feature Freeze - Archive frozen for 11.10 Beta 1 | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congrats to new core-dev: SpamapS
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-26
<al-maisan> hello there, how does one specify a dependency on package X >=1.5.0,<2.0.0 ?
<Rhonda> Like you wrote. :)
<mase_work> looks good to me
<al-maisan> ah, I see, thanks :)
<Rhonda> Depends X (>= 1.5.0Depends: wesnoth-1.9-core (>= 1:1.9.3-1), wesnoth-1.9-core (<< 1:1.9.3-1.~)
<Rhonda> bleah :)
<Rhonda> Depends: wesnoth-1.9-core (>= 1:1.9.3-1), wesnoth-1.9-core (<< 1:1.9.3-1.~)
<al-maisan> ah, the package name needs to be repeated .. I see
<Rhonda> Yes, that's pretty tight. But needed within Debian to allow binNMUs
<Rhonda> al-maisan: the debian/rules magic for that is a fair bit weird
<al-maisan> so, "Depends: python-dateutil (>= 1.5), python-dateutil (<< 2.0)" would be right?
<Rhonda> Looks good, yes
<al-maisan> great, thanks!
<Rhonda> I'd even use 2.0~
<al-maisan> what is the effect of the '~'?
<Rhonda> to nog get troubles with pre releases
<Rhonda> Lower than anything, even the empty string
<al-maisan> ok, will make use of it
<Rhonda> so it is used eg for 2.0~rc1 to later be able to upgrade to 2.0
<al-maisan> ah, I see
 * Rhonda . o O ( When you see me not shifting anything, not fixing typos and not responding soon, I am probably mobile and type singlehanded  ;P )
<al-maisan> ah :)
<dholbach> good morning
<hakermania> How did it go yesterday? I mean with the BetaFreeze and UIFreeze :)
<pmjdebruijn> hi again
<pmjdebruijn> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78130735/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.libvirt_0.8.8-1ubuntu6.5unnet0~lucid_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<pmjdebruijn> I have a pacakge build failing because it can't find any kernel stuff in /boot
<pmjdebruijn> any advice on dealing with this?
<pmjdebruijn> I guess I could hack out the test
<pmjdebruijn> but then again I wonder how the package built on the original build farm? are they different from the ppa build farm?
<geser> pmjdebruijn: it already skips those tests (Skipping /boot/initrd* tests. Could not find /boot/initrd*). The one that failed it before it: FAIL: daemon-conf
<geser> pmjdebruijn: the official build skipped those initrd tests too but it also had a check for Ubuntu buildd for the failed one: Skipping valid config (Ubuntu buildd FTBFS)
<geser> you might need to check why it doesn't trigger for PPA builds
<pmjdebruijn> oh
<pmjdebruijn> right
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<pmjdebruijn> thanks
<pmjdebruijn> geser: crap it had a debian-changes-... patch affecting daemon-conf
<pmjdebruijn> so I somehow broke it myself
<pmjdebruijn> clear case of PEBKAC
<jtaylor> cnocerning this sru: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/natty/meld/meld-sru/+merge/72410
<jtaylor> it was approved but nothing uploaded, should I subscribe -release to the bugs now or will a sponsor have another look later?
<geser> jtaylor: usually the SRU teams reviews from the upload queue, you need to find a sponsor for the upload
<Laney> a sponsor needs to upload it as normal, yeah
<jtaylor> k I'll wait then
<jtaylor> hm as they review from the upload queue how will bug 811721 be handled which is waiting for an approval before anything is uploaded?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811721 in tahoe-lafs (Ubuntu) "update pycryptopp to version 0.5.29-1 in natty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811721
<Laney> get it uploaded
<jtaylor> I am waiting for a decision if I should backport it or instead do some version number patching
<geser> jtaylor: I'd suggest to try to reach them on IRC instead of waiting on a comment in the bug
<jtaylor> geser: do they have an irc channel or do I just ask in -devel/privmsg?
<geser> jtaylor: I'd try ping them in #ubuntu-devel
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: did you see debbug 516689
<jtaylor> hm no, missed that affects 3.10, thx for checking
<bpoole> jrib, thanks, so you would suggest something like this? http://pastebin.com/GamxrPNH
<al-maisan> Hmm .. a package of mine failed to build with "Found files in /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages (must be in dist-packages for python2.7)."
<al-maisan> Any idea what that means and how it should be fixed?
<al-maisan> This is the build log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78180839/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.python-dateutil_1.5-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
 * al-maisan looks at the MANIFEST.in
<jtaylor> al-maisan: pass --install-layout=deb to setup.py install
<al-maisan> do I need to override some target in rules to do that?
<jtaylor> it appears it is already overriden
<jtaylor> dh_auto_install usually does it right
<jtaylor> you aren't using python packaging helpers?
<al-maisan> I do not see "--install-layout=deb" being passed in the build log though
<jtaylor> yes its missing
<al-maisan> jtaylor: I did a dh_make and used the debian/rules it generated ..
<jtaylor> add --with python2 to the dh $@ line
<al-maisan> ah, ok, will try that, thanks!
<tumbleweed> al-maisan: is there a Makefile in that source?  it looks like you may want to pass dh --buildsystem=python_distutils
<al-maisan> tumbleweed: actually there is one, http://paste.ubuntu.com/675313/
<tumbleweed> yeah, so tell dh not to use it :)
<al-maisan> .. or remove it?
<al-maisan> jtaylor, tumbleweed : thank you very much for your help !
<tumbleweed> al-maisan: yeah you could remove it, but you need to be sure you do that before dh tries to work out what buildsystem to use, which gets tricky
<al-maisan> hmm .. I see .. I will give it a try and see how it goes .. thanks again!
<jtaylor> passing --buildsystem works fine though
<al-maisan> ok
<jtaylor> I have a pacakge where I use distutils for most and a makefile for tests ^^
<al-maisan> ah, I see .. will use "--buildsystem=python_distutils" then
<keffie_jayx> Hello guys , i am currently working on a package that has changed significantly, Upstream has decided to split the core so it can be reused by other aplications, this core should be packaged as a share library package?
<keffie_jayx> or should I just split the packages into two binary pacakges
<Daviey> I'm not on crack am I?  http://pb.daviey.com/ieni/ is 3 clause BSD, right?
<broder> Daviey: it matches the 3-clause license on wikipedia :)
<Daviey> $ licensecheck lcptools/readpol.c
<Daviey> lcptools/readpol.c: BSD (2 clause)
<Daviey> go figure :/
<Daviey> ISTR reading about someone else encountering that issue.
<Rhonda> The issue is this:
<Rhonda> elsif ($licensetext =~ /(The name of .*? may not|Neither the names? of .*? nor the names of (its|their) contributors may) be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software/i
<broder> is it just not matching across the newline/asterisk?
<Rhonda> no
<Rhonda> The missing "of" infront of Intel Corporation is the issue
<Rhonda> Add a "of" infront of intel in that file, run licensecheck on it again, and see
<Rhonda> I would guess that the of should be left off in the match
<Daviey> Yeah, that isn't a patch i'll be carrying.
<Daviey> :)
<broder> or /(The name (of )?.*? may not|Neither the names? (of )?.*? etc, etc
<Rhonda> s/of // in that line isn't a patch you would like to submit to licensecheck?
<Rhonda> broder: That makes no sense.
<broder> change the regex to deal with the absence of the "of"
<Rhonda> (of )? directly infront of .*? is â¦ "irrelevant", as seven-of-nine would say.
<broder> ha. good point
<Rhonda> .*? itself would deal with that already.
<Rhonda> So strip the of off (hah)
<Rhonda> ah, adsb!
 * Rhonda . o O ( debcheckout -a devscripts )
<Rhonda> broder, Daviey: Patch will be submitted soonish.
<Rhonda> broder, Daviey: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=devscripts/devscripts.git;a=commitdiff;h=1c2016
<hakermania> sladen, Hello again, what about my next move now :) ?
<sladen> hakermania: you want your (now approved package) uploading
<hakermania> sladen, by who?
<sladen> well probably by me
<micahg> sladen: yep, it's all you :)
<hakermania> heh, thanks if you do so
<sladen> micahg: remind me, are we allowed to sponsor new packages to Universe after FF /
<micahg> sladen: if there's an FFe granter
<micahg> *granted
 * micahg doesn't know where the FFE bug is, hakermania?
<sladen> micahg: mmm, technically I'm not sure a wallpaper changer is essential, so probably doesn't deserve one :(
<micahg> sladen: I think it was already granted
<micahg> this was the second cycle hakermania has tried to get it in
<sladen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/824102
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 824102 in Ubuntu "FFE: Wallch 2.0" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hakermania> micahg: sladen, thanks
<hakermania> Yes it is already granted :D
<hakermania> Laney, ;)
<hakermania> but the Kate Stewart who replied the request confused me a bit, (s)he was probably wrong
<micahg> hakermania: she's the release manager ;)
<micahg> sladen: ah, the FFe is conditional on finding an AA who's gulli^H^H^H^H^Hkind enough to review it
<sladen> micahg: hakermania suckered me into that yesterday
<sladen> micahg: so by my (optimistic reading), that means we're good to go, right :)
<micahg> sladen: I think the uploader needs to find the AA that's willing to review it :)
<micahg> hakermania: I think she was missing that it's a new package with no dependencies
<hakermania> Nice, what's an AA?
<micahg> hakermania: archive admin
<hakermania> aha, are there multiple ones around :D ?
<micahg> probably not on a Friday afternoon/evening
<Daviey> hakermania: Wait, are you trying to get wallch installed by default?
<hakermania> Daviey, no, absolutely not
<Daviey> good stuff
<ScottK> micahg: I don't think she was missing that.  One of the main reasons not to continue to allow a steady stream of new packages into the archive late in the cycle is the archive-admins generally need to be busy with other stuff.
<ScottK> So "If someone has time to review it" is a reasonable basis for an FFe approval.
<hakermania> ScottK, I think that nobody disagrees with this
<sladen> ScottK: so, happy to NEW it if I upload?
<ScottK> sladen: No.  Busy with other things.
<hakermania> Is ScottK an AA?
<Daviey> hakermania: wow, you've had a pretty drawn out process trying to get it in the archive.
<hakermania> Daviey, I know :'(
<hakermania> lol
<hakermania> Daviey, there are also 1.0 tries in there... Being a complete newbie in pacaging and with a brief knowledge of english it isn't so easy :P
<Daviey> hakermania: good effort on your perseverance, sorry it's been such a challenge.
<hakermania> Daviey, sorry? I'm glad that the system is so strict
<hakermania> sladen, thanks for the comment, can you please tell me some AA to kindly ask them for marking wallch as 'NEW' (if I got it right)
<Daviey> hakermania: The issue is that archive admins need to review the package, and as we are in a beta freeze - they are mostly tied up with more pressing tasks.  It's not just a case of them hitting approve.
<hakermania> Daviey, I got it, what do you suggest
<hakermania> ?
<Daviey> hakermania: either get it in Debian or see if you have more success on Monday.
<sladen> hakermania: I have passed a small anonymous brown paper bag to an archive admin on your behalf
<hakermania> sladen, containing money :P ?
<hakermania> Daviey, thanks for the suggestion by I don't think that it's applicable, with so many uploads to REVU each one separately containing hours of searching on the net, I think it deserves going through ubuntu now that's finally OK. It is designed to work on ubuntu better, after all
<hakermania> sladen, thanks whatever you do(or did) :D Goodnight
<micahg> ScottK: Laney made the conditional approval on AA time, did I say anything contrary to that?
<ScottK> micahg: I should have directed that at hakermania.  Sorry.
<micahg> ScottK: no problem :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-27
<sum1nil> hi all! I need to learn how to apply a patch described in the website: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=553706 - message # 10. Any help is as always appreciated.
<ubottu> Debian bug 553706 in glob2 "FTBFS with GCC 4.4: 'class GAGCore::StreamBackend' has no member named 'getc'" [Serious,Fixed]
<sum1nil> what is ubottu? sorry
<sum1nil> Do I put the patch in the src folder and use edit-patch?
<sum1nil> I put it n the same src folder as the original *.cpp file; what do I do next?
<jbicha> ubottu is a bot, one of its job is to give more info about bugs mentioned in chat
<sum1nil> thank you sorry for the delay. I manually re-arranged the headers, but would love to know how to use the patch file properly. ty
<jbicha> sum1nil: that patch has already been applied, what version of glob2 are you trying to use?
<sum1nil> i download the tarball from their site. For some reason I could not download the ubuntu package.
<jbicha> see message 24 on that bug report
<sum1nil> ok
<jbicha> if the current version in Ubuntu doesn't work, then it probably doesn't work in Debian either so it should be reported there too
<sum1nil> one moment please...
<sum1nil> I clicked the linux link for downloads and it took me to ubuntu Beta 4 (0.9.4.4)... but couldn't click and download
<jbicha> why aren't you just using the Ubuntu package in Software Center?
<sum1nil> In retrospect that would have been easier.. I would also like to know how to patch things though
<jbicha> sum1nil: quilt is the magic tool for Debian packaging patches
<jbicha> http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<sum1nil> Thanks. I'll do more research. You guys do an awesome job BTW. Many thanks for providing the work you do.
<ScottK> jbicha: BTW, quilt isn't just used in Debian.  It was originally developed for (IIRC) kernel developers (which is why debian/patches isn't the default place quilt looks for patches).
<jbicha> ScottK: thanks, I think his question wasn't about packaging any way but he left too quick
<ScottK> jbicha: BTW, I proposed a serverguide branch for merge today, I was wondering if you might have a look at merging it.
<jbicha> ScottK: I'll take a look but I haven't touched the serverguide much
<ScottK> Unfortunately no one who has is around since sommer moved on.
<ScottK> jbicha: Would it be possible to give core-dev access to push to the serverguide branch and just let us handle the merges since it doesn't go in a -docs package anyway?
<ScottK> (just thinking out loud)
<jbicha> my simplistic understand was that core-dev were supposed to have write access to everything Ubuntu
<jbicha> ScottK: how is server guide distributed these days?
<ScottK> Just via the web site.
<ScottK> Dunno.  I know I can't push to the serverguide branch.  I tried.
<jbicha> ScottK: you mean just help.ubuntu.com?
<ScottK> Yes.
<jbicha> ScottK: why don't you ask that on the ubuntu-doc mailing list? it sounds reasonable to me
<ScottK> Since I'm not subscribed to it?
<hakermania> sladen, Hello. What happened ? I received 2 emails saying 'Brach linked ubuntu/wallch' one for the need packaging and one for the FFe, do you know anything?
<sladen> hakermania: there appears to be something strange with the buildds;  'libnotifymm-dev' is in the archive when I try and download it, but doesn't show up as published
<tumbleweed> sladen:
<tumbleweed> Deleted 23 hours ago by Colin Watson (From Debian) RoM; dead upstream, blocks libnotify 0.7; LP: #691990
<sladen> tumbleweed: mid-air collision timing eh!
<tumbleweed> yeah :/
<tumbleweed> hakermania: you've got some hacking to do :)
<hakermania>  UNBELIEVABLE, just returned from my lessons, it seems that God don't wont this application to be in ubuntu
<sagaci> maybe in ubuntu+1
<hakermania> tumbleweed, why kind of hacking? Can't I just link the libraries statically?
<hakermania> what*
<hakermania> Anybody knows what should I do?
<hakermania> I've freaked out
<hakermania> sagaci, what do you mean?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: it's *in* ubuntu, the problem is that it isn't building
<tumbleweed> hakermania: you nee to make it not need the library that was removed
<hakermania> tumbleweed, nice! So, do I require to do any 'ha(c)king'? xD?
<tumbleweed> yes
<hakermania> what kind of?
<hakermania> oh i see, sorry
<hakermania> Is statical linking permitted?
<jtaylor> strongly discouraged
<hakermania> But how do C++ applications now display notifications???
<hakermania> sladen, Should I drop the libnotifymm dependency and reupload to revu?
<hakermania> Pity, I'd spent some hours on making the automatic image update and text work :(
<hakermania> Also, what about the other applications depending on this library? I bet there are plenty c++ showing notifications... Vlc, clementine...Both qt ones
<debfx> hakermania: why can't you port it to the libnotify C API?
<hakermania> debfx, which is the libnotify C API? Synaptic shows only libnotifymm as c++ libs for showing notifications
<jtaylor> libnotify
<jtaylor> c++ can use C libraries
<sladen> hakermania: if you can make it use the native C libnotify API that would avoid the dependency, yes
<hakermania> jtaylor, I use the plain libnotify lib, not the libnotifymm, watch this screenshot, notice that I have the option to use libnotifymm and libnotify but I do use only libnotify (as seen in the above row)http://i.imgur.com/nfI38.png
<jtaylor> why does it depend on mm then?
<hakermania> good point
<hakermania> jtaylor, the package is called 'libnotify' as is? I though this provided the cli tool notify-send
<jtaylor> you probably want libnotify-dev
<hakermania> jtaylor, yes, you are right, I just checked the dependency and it's libnotifymm-dev, hehe I was too lucky using the plain c lib
<hakermania> Thanks!
<jtaylor> bugfix only upstream releases can be synced from debian without a ffe or?
<Laney> correct
<jtaylor> hm but debian changed to dh_python2 when packaging it :/ that will need one
<Laney> also correct
<tumbleweed> if it's a sync, I'm less worried about the FFe for the dh_python2, but that is what we asked for
<hakermania> So, now that I fixed the dependency do I re-upload to REVU?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: no, we genearlly use debdiffs in launchpad bugs for sponsorship
<hakermania> tumbleweed, how-to?
<tumbleweed> also, please subscribe to the bugs for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch
<tumbleweed> hakermania: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<hakermania> tumbleweed, so, in sort, I provide you with the .debdiff file after I make the changes?
<hakermania> Also, should I edit the debian/changelog and add a new entry describing the change?
<hakermania> But changelog should close a LP bug....Should I open one? 'Wallch faulty depends on libnotifymm-dev'? And close it in changelog?
<hakermania> And dch forces it to be 0ubuntu2, is this correct?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: yes, yes, yes (whith a title like "FTBFS, depends on libnotifymm-dev, which was removed"), yes, yes
<hakermania> tumbleweed, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks lol
<hakermania> tumbleweed, the bug to be against the Wallch project or against 'wallch in ubuntu'?
<tumbleweed> wallch in ubuntu
<hakermania> tumbleweed, I cannot ofcourse attach the DEBDIFF on the initial post because I don't know what number the package has so as to update debian/changelog first :P Or just mark it 'to progress' and then in another reply post the debdiff?
<hakermania> the bug has*
<tumbleweed> correct
<hakermania> nice
<hakermania> Can I do any upstream change and include it to this debdiff?
<jtaylor> no upstream changes should be in debian/patches
<jtaylor> for v3 packages
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: "no, "
<hakermania> tumbleweed, thanks for the correction because yes, i misunderstood it.
<hakermania> So, I cannot correct any upstream code for the time being.....
<tumbleweed> you can correct it, preferably with a quilt patch
<jtaylor> yes you can but it will have to be in the form of a patch in the debian.tar.gz (= a quilt patch in debian/patches)
<hakermania> jtaylor, and then send both the debdiff and the quilt patch or debdiff will inlude the upstream patch as change?
<jtaylor> the patch will be in the debdiff
<hakermania> im genious
<hakermania> Should I describe the upstream changes to debian/changelog?
<hakermania> edit-patch forces me to do this
<ScottK> hakermania: Only very important ones.  It's not needed to describe every change.
<Laney> I quite often paste NEWS in there, but you might need to edit it a bit
<ScottK> Aren't you supposed to be bicycling?
<hakermania> ScottK, what is this?
<hakermania> I think I will not refer to it at all, its importance is less than minor
<hakermania> it fixes a bug happening in non-unity environments
<ScottK> There are lots of non-Unity environments in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> hakermania: The bicycling comment was for Laney.
<hakermania> ScottK, still the bug is minor and specific, so it
<hakermania> 's Ok
<ScottK> OK.
<hakermania> OK, when debdiff is attached, should this change to 'fix committed', right? Because released requires the solution to be downloadable and installable...
<hakermania> debdiff submitted
<hakermania> bug 835524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 835524 in wallch (Ubuntu) "FTBFS, depends on libnotifymm-dev, which was removed" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835524
<sladen> hakermania: yes, but does this actually change the source code?  Or was the 'libnotifymm-dev' requirement a lie (not needed in the first place?)
<sladen> hakermania: the only change in there appears to be the remaining of a wallpaper.png
<hakermania> sladen, no, see closer http://paste.ubuntu.com/676090/
<hakermania> It changed the dependency
<sladen> hakermania: I know if changed the dependency.  But it didn't change the program code!
<sladen> hakermania: the only way that is going to work (and the program still compile) is
<sladen> hakermania:  (a)  The dependency was wrong in the first place, and not actually used
<sladen> hakermania:  (b)  The build system checks for libnotfiymm availalbility, and turns it off at build time
<hakermania> sladen, yes, it's (a), it worked because libnotifymm-dev has a dependency on libnotify-dev, which is the actual dependency, here's the libnotifymm-dev's dependencies: http://i.imgur.com/men2I.png
<sladen> ahhhh
<hakermania> So, there's no reason to change the code, I needed libnotify-dev in 1st place
<sladen> hakermania: can you add that explanation, clearly to  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch/+bug/835524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 835524 in wallch (Ubuntu) "FTBFS, depends on libnotifymm-dev, which was removed" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<sladen> hakermania: noting that it was /incorrect/ dependencies in the first place
<sladen> hakermania: and that no APIs from  *mm  are actually used
<hakermania> sladen, thanks, done
<hakermania> Will somebody apply this debdiff somehow? Any further action from my side?
<jtaylor> subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug, then someone will have a look
<hakermania> jtaylor, thanks, done
<hakermania> Also, where do I submit an icon for Wallch for USC?
<hakermania> What does this reply mean? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnotifymm/+bug/691990 Does (s)he want a quick fix for wallch? Or it doesn't refer to it at all?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 691990 in libnotifymm (Ubuntu) "Please remove libnotifymm (universe) from oneiric archive" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<hakermania> sladen, thanks again. Goodnight
<Laney> ScottK: Maybe setting off in a couple of days; got held back by parental hospitality :-)
<Laney> not to mention the weather
<sladen> hakermania: np.  You probably want to subscribe to
<sladen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch/+subscribe
 * ScottK sits in the middle of a hurricane and wonders what Laney means by "weather".
<ajmitch> ScottK: it's affecting you a bit there?
<sladen> ScottK: does think of it as garden re-landscaping on the cheap
<sladen> ScottK: just think of it as garden re-landscaping on the cheap!
<ScottK> Just a bit.  We're far enough west to for it to be just some wind and rain.
<ScottK> It's also tracking east of the original projection.  I'm sure that's not hurting either.
#ubuntu-motu 2011-08-28
<micahg> DktrKranz: did you mean to subscribe sponsors for bug 835416?  it's in universe now, but also seeded in lubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 835416 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "Sync gdebi 0.8.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835416
<DktrKranz> micahg: indeed, I didn't notice it was demoted.
<micahg> DktrKranz: well, from the look of the bug, requestsync didn't help you at all :)
 * DktrKranz hasn't launchpadlib integration yet :P
<hakermania> sladen, Good morning, why in armel it failed to build? It seems that it didn't use gcc, otherwise I cannot explain it. Also, notice it says: 'sh: gcc: not found'
<hakermania> If it fails to build in some architectures, will it be available to the successful ones?
<micahg> hakermania: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/78351164/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.wallch_2.1-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz, it seems to be a problem with an arm specific symbol in libav
<hakermania> micahg, thanks, but how do ou know?
<hakermania> you*
<micahg> hakermania: I read the build log, you look right at the end before the packages start to be removed
<hakermania> micahg, Which symbol? I can see an undefined reference inside the libhighgui (opencv) lib...
<micahg> yep, that would be it
<hakermania> micahg, but that's not problem of my code, it's architecture's or lib's dependend...
<micahg> hakermania: it could be that opencv just needs a rebuild against the latest libav
<hakermania> micahg, any action from my side?
<micahg> hakermania: doesn't look like it
 * micahg really needs to upgrade his armel machine to oneiric
<micahg> unfortunately, I have to take care of something else before bed, maybe I can look later today
 * hakermania is grateful
<hakermania> blackout :P
<hakermania> sladen, if there's no action required from me, why did you asigned me to the bug?
<sladen> hakermania: you can mark it "Won't Fix"/deassign yourself---just thought as it's your package it was the easiest way to alert you to it
<sladen> hakermania: (if you subscribe to  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch/+subscriptions  you should get bugmail automatically)
<hakermania> sladen, I've already subscribed wallch team, in which i am a member
<sladen> hakermania: okay
<hakermania> sladen, will it be available for the architectures in which it successfully built, or?
<sladen> hakermania: it is
<sladen> hakermania: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wallch/2.1-0ubuntu2
<hakermania> sladen, which will be Wallch's icon in USC? I don't want it to have this ugly 'box with tools' icon. Do I submitted somewhere or it will automatically take desktop file's icon for use?
<sladen> hakermania: it's taken from the .desktop file + icon inside the binary, â¦when the database is rebuilt
<sladen> hakermania: which is done sporadically IIRC
<hakermania> sladen, what is IIRC :P ?
<sladen> hakermania: "If I Recall Correctly", but I don't already recall/remember correctly
<micahg> usually right before milestones
<hakermania> micahg, milestones? Before betta release for example?
<hakermania> wow, I had installed in a virtualbox aplha3 oneiric the 0ubuntu1 and it updated to 0ubuntu2 at once :O
<hakermania> it's on the repos :D
<hakermania> Ok, I would like to thank this channel very much for all the help I got, but especially tumbleweed, jtaylor, sladen, micahg and surely other ones that I've forgotten since winter... Also the AA and his instant reaction... Thanks you guys, really !
<micahg> hakermania: thank you for contributing to Ubuntu!, do you intend to try to get the package in Debian now?
<hakermania> micahg, Why NOT :D ? I know nothing about Debian BUT, I knew very few about Ubuntu and C++ when I started this project and now it's in! So, yes, I will.
<micahg> hakermania: that's great!, then your program can get even more exposure :)
<Laney> you'll get to have fun making the ubuntu specific features optional
<hakermania> Laney, heh, I don't use to say good things for myself, and if I do i'm ironic, but I was quite clever to associate the Unity options with the start-up ones. If you mean to remove them from the .desktop file for Debian, then it's easy
<hakermania> I mean that Unity options exist because of the start-up ones, also cli communication with the program through DBus is fun!
<hakermania> Also, what's going on on revu? will it stay there?
<Laney> it's the path of most resistance
<jtaylor> wtf is this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/676740/
<hakermania> !wtf jtaylor
<hakermania> !wtf
<hakermania> :(
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<micahg> jtaylor: something not cleaning up after itself?
<jtaylor> that can only be gcc/ld then
<jtaylor> to reproduce: http://paste.ubuntu.com/676746/
<hakermania> micahg, should I port it somehow or upload it manually to http://expo.debian.net/ ?
<jtaylor> anyone have an idea how to solve the ncurses issue?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: so, libncurses.so.5 is a symlink to libtermcap.so which is a linker script saying read libncurses.so.5 :)
<jtaylor> hm
<jtaylor> shouldn't that be a major problem for a lot more builds
<tumbleweed> most likely
<jtaylor> I oly found a single failure
<tumbleweed> it was only uploaded 3 days ago
<jtaylor> seems no bug reported
<tumbleweed> aha, 5.9-1ubuntu1 was the culprit
<tumbleweed> looks like a trivial fix
<jtaylor> bug 836246
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836246 in ncurses (Ubuntu) "cycle between ncurses/termcap linker scripts" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836246
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: got a patch?
<jtaylor> have no experience with linker scripts
<jtaylor> zZzZZz how large is this ncurses branch ._.
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I've realised I have no idea where /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 comes from
<tumbleweed> it isn't there in a clean chroot
<jtaylor> interesting
<tumbleweed> right, ldconfig created it when 5.9-1 is installed
<tumbleweed> but when it was transitioned to a linker script, it didn't know to clean it up
<jtaylor> so its an upgrade problem?
<tumbleweed> yeah, I think a bug in ldconfig
<tumbleweed> although I don't know if ldconfig deletes symlinks, so maybe not
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-20
<dupondje> somebody around that could give me a help for building lightning-extension ?
<slava_> if I have issues with packages in natty narwal, am I SOL or is it worth bringing them up?
<jtaylor> sol?
<slava_> shit out of luck
<jtaylor> natty is still supported
<slava_> yay
<jtaylor> but not very long
<slava_> I am trying to install libmossex-declare-perl which requires libmoosex-method-signature-perl, but the latter appears to both conflict with and depend on other packages ... I am not sure how to figure out what is messed up.
<jtaylor> does that package still exist in latter versions?
<slava_> not sure, but it should as it is actively maintained in cpan
<jtaylor> I can't even find it in natty
<jtaylor> is it an official package or from a ppa?
<slava_> official
<slava_> oops
<slava_> libmoosex-method-signatures-perl
<slava_> it's in universe
<slava_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libmoosex-method-signatures-perl
<jtaylor> it installs fine in a natty chroot
<slava_> interesting ...
<jtaylor> what kind of error do you get?
<slava_> http://pastebin.com/ujgEKfqx
<jtaylor> what happens if you try to install libmoose-perl?
<slava_> it's installed
<jtaylor> which version?
<slava_> 1.23-1
<jtaylor> are you sure? apt-cache  policy libmoose-perl
<slava_> 500 natty/universe
<slava_>  *** 1.23-1 0         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty/universe amd64 Packages
<slava_> that's the only version available
<slava_> libmoose-perl:   Installed: 1.23-1   Candidate: 1.23-1   Version table:  *** 1.23-1 0         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty/universe amd64 Packages         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<Lasall> slava_: and the other packages? libparse-method-signatures-perl libmoosex-types-structured-perl libmoosex-lazyrequire-perl
<Lasall> (which version is installed if any?)
<slava_> all exceed versions
<slava_> http://pastebin.com/W5c8pDwc
<Lasall> slava_: run the apt-get install command with option "-o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true"
<slava_> what I do not understand is why it say that the package will not get installed ... in synaptic it says that it will remove those packages ...
<Lasall> but I think it's probably not the right channel
<slava_> that gave me lots of stuff, thanks
<slava_> sorry :(
<slava_> I thought motu was for packaging stuff
<slava_> or are older distros in other channels?
<Lasall> no, but I think this is a general package manager issue
<Lasall> (and not a bug in packaging)
<slava_> ok, I found something
<slava_> libpackage-stash-perl (version 0.33-1) is listed as breaking libmoosex-method-signatures-perl (<0.37~)
<slava_> but moosex-method-signatures depends on the packages that breaks it ...
<slava_> T_T
<slava_> oh
<slava_> I think I know what happened
<slava_> I think I created that version :(
<Lasall> :-D
<slava_> thanks for the pointer :D
<Lasall> and you were right, that actually was a packaging issue...
<slava_> yeah, at some point I was trying to install later version of something related to mongodb
<slava_> but not in the repo though :)
<slava_> technically, I broke it :(
<slava_> yay
<slava_> maybe I should upgrade :)
 * dupondje getting fustrated on building lightning-extension :(
<dupondje> configure:17825:27: fatal error: sys/int_types.h: No such file or directory
<dupondje> compilation terminated.
<micahg> dupondje: the version in quantal should be fixed
<micahg> just uploaded
<dupondje> GREAT
<dupondje> thats really good news :)
<dupondje> was missing lightning for +1 month now
<dupondje> which was annoying :(
<dupondje> micahg: How is the correct way to get the orig tarball for lightning-extension? Cause I tried it (debian/rules get-orig-source), but I get a totally different tarball
<micahg> dupondje: it's not a reproducible tarball, you'll get a different one each time
<micahg> dupondje: in this case, just use pull-lp-source
<dupondje> But if I want to build a package with a newer version?
<dupondje> debian/rules get-orig-source should produce the correct tarball no?
<dupondje> micahg: But what if I want to build a newer version (when it comes out)
<dupondje> then debian/rules get-orig-source should get the newest version or ?
<micahg> dupondje: ./debian/rules get-orig-source DEBIAN_TAG=CALENDAR_1_foo_BUILD1=1.foo+build1
<micahg> dupondje: you have to get the upstream tag from the comm-beta channel
<micahg> if it's a beta like 1.7b3,  DEBIAN_TAG=CALENDAR_1_7b3_BUILD1=1.7~b3+build1
<dupondje> hmz ok! seems I missed DEBIAN_TAG
<dupondje> i'll try it out, thanks!
<xnox> bdrung: taking syncs from under my nose..... ;-)
<bdrung> xnox: :) i help to reduce the sponsors queue by processing the sync requests
<xnox> bdrung: I know, tell me about it ;-)
<bdrung> xnox: 1) that's how i award the 'Debian first' rule
<bdrung> xnox: 2) the patch pilots can work on hard stuff instead of just doing syncs ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-21
<TheLordOfTime> are Precise's repos still frozen?
<dholbach> good morning
<TheDrums> micahg: You happen to be about?
<gch-scilifelab> hello everybody
<gch-scilifelab> I'm doing my master thesis in the scilifelab (scilifelab.se) in Stockholm, we are currently working in a nexgen-data processing pipeline and I'm packagin all its dependencies 11:24:57 AM
<gch-scilifelab> i've already packaged some of them, but I'm having problems when packaging gatk 11:25:21 AM
<gch-scilifelab> it looks like it's failing to download some data, and this is what I don't understand, locally, I can build the package without problems, but when submitting to launchpad I get this error 11:26:35 AM
<gch-scilifelab> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/113060176/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.gatk_1.6-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz 11:26:42 AM
<gch-scilifelab> can anybody give me a clue of what is happening please?
<tumbleweed> the buildds don't have internet access
<gch-scilifelab> (sorry for the time stamps, I asked before in the wrong channel)
<Zhenech> gch-scilifelab, you should not download when building
<directhex> gch-scilifelab, build daemons don't have internet access
<tumbleweed> everything that you need for the build should be included in the source package
<tumbleweed> (or its dependencies)
<gch-scilifelab> hm.. oks
<directhex> gch-scilifelab, this is a design choice, otherwise it would penalise people who have no internet access but do want to develop free software
<gch-scilifelab> fast answer :-)
<gch-scilifelab> thank you very much
<gch-scilifelab> I'll try to fix it
<Zhenech> gch-scilifelab, I think you are looking for the "ivy" package into your build-depends
<tumbleweed> err, it's more of a design choice for reproducability and licence compliance
<directhex> that too
<directhex> it's especially annoying when a build system uses a CURRENT file to download the latest version of some non-bundled component, but doesn't actually work with the latest version
<directhex> or if the latest version is missing
<directhex> e.g. cgit was unbuildable for a while due to kernel.org being down due to hacks
<gch-scilifelab> but, they don't have an internet connection? or they cannot download stuff?
<tumbleweed> what's the difference?
<Zhenech> for you, they have no internet connection
<gch-scilifelab> well just because I thought that the other software I packaged also checked for some dependencies
<tumbleweed> they have access to a mirror. nothing else
<gch-scilifelab> obciously I'm wrong if there is no internet connection for the builder machines
<gch-scilifelab> ok
<gch-scilifelab> thanks
<gch-scilifelab> in fact, the other packages I have built doesn't require internet connection. So I'll try to solve this
<gch-scilifelab> thank you for your help, very kind you all :-)
<xnox> i see that lintian is in sync now, what's the best place / way to propose changes to the ubuntu profile?
<xnox> via bts or lp?
<tumbleweed> xnox: bts / #debian-qa
<tumbleweed> assuming you don't need to discuss this with ubuntu people
<xnox> tumbleweed: no need to discuss, "I am always right" (tm).
<xnox> tumbleweed: it affects both debian/ubuntu so it should be ok =)
<xnox> tumbleweed: filed a bug report.
<ESphynx> xnox: Many thanks for the review/upload =)
<xnox> ESphynx: no-problem. now you need to wait for it to go through new queue. if it gets accepted you have plenty of work to do on that package still ;-)
<ESphynx> xnox: plenty of work eh?
 * ESphynx is waiting :P
<ESphynx> xnox: Anything in particular that will require more work?
<xnox> ESphynx: many compiler warnings to begin with.
<xnox> it spits out many int != char
<xnox> which will help with porting to 64bit later on upstream.
<ESphynx> hmm I think those might be from the lexers & parsers generated by bison/gnu
<ESphynx> which unfortunately I canât do much about... but theyâre harmless though ( donât think theyâd affect the 64 bit warnings either )
<ESphynx> other than that I know thereâs the pthread_mutex_setkind_np warning... which I have yet to decide what to do with... I think now the more portable function is available on Linux, but before it was not ...
<ESphynx> Thereâs also the warnings spit out by GCC from eC generated C code... Which you probably did not see because I hide them :P
<ESphynx> that however is a big deal :P
<ESphynx> bison/flex*
<ESphynx> Iâm fixing warning: pthread_mutexattr_setkind_np undefined, cause it was breaking on Android anyways :P
<ESphynx> xnox: Are these ( http://pastebin.ca/2197021 ) the other warnings you were referring to?
<xnox> yeah.
<xnox> some of.
<ESphynx> I never got the last one! MAX_INCLUDE_DEPTH is defined to be 10
<ESphynx> as in #define
<ESphynx> and the others are all from code generated by flex, which unfortunately I canât fix :S
<ESphynx> oh look at that.
<ESphynx> all of those are warnings generated by the eC compiler :P
<ESphynx> Guess I could fix/tweak the eC compiler :P
<ESphynx> xnox: some of? you had a lot more? :P
<xnox> ESphynx: busy... =) can't be asked to find the build log again....
<ESphynx> Those are the only ones I get apart from warning: pthread_mutexattr_setkind_np undefined; assuming extern
<ESphynx> xnox: np. thanks for pointing this out, iâll make it a point to not output these anymore.
<xnox> ESphynx: rather than "not outputing them" they should be fixed.
<xnox> either in code, or the parser / code-generator.
<ESphynx> xnox: theyâre warnings from the eC compiler
<xnox> since they are real warnings.
<ESphynx> xnox: and they are not valid
<ESphynx> (well flex could be modified, but since GCC does not complain about them, they likely wonât fix flex)
<ESphynx> and the MAX_INCLUDE_DEPTH thing is a bug in my compiler, it should realize MAX_INCLUDE_DEPTH is 10
<micahg> TheDrums: very sporadically this week, how can I help you
<gch-scilifelab> hi, I have a problem when updating a re-packaged software. I packaged a software a few days ago, but I did it wrong (I didn't want to include the source code, just the resulting jar files). Today I have repackaged the software properly but when I do a "dput ppa: etc" i receive a mail rejecting the upload with the message:
<gch-scilifelab> Rejected:
<gch-scilifelab> File gatk_1.6.orig.tar.gz already exists in Bio-tools, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
<gch-scilifelab> File gatk_1.6-0ubuntu0.diff.gz already exists in Bio-tools, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
<gch-scilifelab> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<gch-scilifelab> looking into my ppa I don't see this files, but if I filter by "supress", there they are..
<gch-scilifelab> https://launchpad.net/~gch/+archive/utils/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=superseded&field.series_filter=
<gch-scilifelab> is there any way to supress them definitely? If not, what should I do?
<Lasall> gch-scilifelab: increase version
<gch-scilifelab> hi lasall, I've tried repackaging with the version name gatk-1.6-0ubuntu1 but doesn't works
<Lasall> you have to increase version of orig tarball
<gch-scilifelab> aha, ok, but if the program version is 1.6... I cannot put another version
<gch-scilifelab> maybe 1.6.0?
<gch-scilifelab> do you mean?
<Lasall> if it were an official package, this would introduce an epoch imho
<Lasall> but for a ppa i would use 1.6.0
<tumbleweed> 1.6+source ?
<Laney> call it 1.6.0+repack-0ubuntu1 or something
<Lasall> ok
<Laney> it's a good lesson about messing with orig tarballs
<gch-scilifelab> ok then, I'll rename it
<gch-scilifelab> thanks
<gch-scilifelab> and do you know for how long the orig tarball will be there with the "supressed" or "deleted" state?
<tumbleweed> forever
<Laney> once a file is there it is there
<Laney> and anyway, you'll have to go forward in version number
<gch-scilifelab> I mean, they are occupying disk space, don't would it be worth to delete them if the developer wants to?
<gch-scilifelab> aha
<tumbleweed> it's not a matter of the file taking disk space, but of ensuring that you don't replace it with something different
<tumbleweed> once it's been published
<gch-scilifelab> ok
<gch-scilifelab> thank you very much :-)
<gch-scilifelab> It's a good thing to know... :-)
<tumbleweed> personally, I think that restriction is unecessarily harsh for PPAs, but it's good training for the archive
<jtaylor> ups I uploaded something as mergomatic ._.
<jtaylor> well at least I only broke a 5 month streak of that not happing
<jtaylor> aren'T there debian like autorejects to prevent such things?
<tumbleweed> launchpad tries hard to avoid ubuntu-specific policy
<TheDrums> micahg: Sorry, I don't exactly know what I should be doing with that, never done it before and it ran into an error number I can't exactly remember, maybe 19?
<arand> gcc-4.4 is the latest available in 10.04 Lucid?
<Lasall> yes
<TheLordOfTime> yup
<verwilst> anyone here with the power to change a bugreport from fix released to confirmed? I messed up but can't correct it myself
<tumbleweed> in general, #ubuntu-bugs is the place to ask for that. but I've done it
<ESphynx> hey tumbleweed :) xnox uploaded Ecere to Debian Experimental =) \o/
 * tumbleweed saw :)
<ESphynx> hehe
 * ESphynx has a Quetzal (the bird) picture on his desktop :P
<Laney> true Nice Guy
<a7x> i actually own a Quetzal ESphynx
<ESphynx> a7x you do? :) awesome :)
<a7x> well, maybe you don't know that i'm not talking about the bird
<ESphynx> oh youâre not?
<ESphynx> what do you own then :P
<a7x> http://en.m.18dao.net/images/0/04/P-99_Guatemala_1998_One_Quetzal.jpg
<a7x> :)
<ESphynx> lolz
<ESphynx> didnât know that! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_quetzal
<a7x> and about the bird, i think it's a protected specie
<ESphynx> probably is!
<a7x> looks like there is no way to buy the bird ESphynx
<a7x> even if it's not really in danger
<ESphynx> ah
<ESphynx> you just gotta go in the South and catch one yourself
<a7x> looks like it's illegal
<a7x> but you can't really trust yahoo answers
<ESphynx> hehe
<ESphynx> well Iâll settle for Quantal Quetzal being able to compile and run eC code :P
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-22
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> Good morning :)
<soren> 12
<soren> whoops
<verwilst> i've apt-get installed linux-source, but how do i build this now? i have /usr/src/linux-source-3.2.0 with debian/ and debian.master/ folders in it. Running debuild -b in either one of them errors out, so maybe i'm missing sth
<verwilst> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `silentoldconfig'.  Stop.
 * Laney points verwilst to #ubuntu-kernel as the source of expertise
<Laney> I would be surprised if there weren't documentation somewhere
<Laney> I do, however, see: " If you wish to use this package to create a custom Linux kernel, then it
<Laney>  is suggested that you investigate the package kernel-package, which has
<Laney>  been designed to ease the task of creating kernel image packages.
<Laney> "
<verwilst> oh?
<verwilst> where do you see that? :P
<Laney> apt-cache show linux-source-3.5.0
<verwilst> i usually use kernel-package, but never with linux-source
<verwilst> hm
<verwilst> unusual place
<Laney> the description of the package? sounds usual to me
<verwilst> but ok, fair enough :)
<Laney> anyway, away to #-kernel with you!
<verwilst> i checked /usr/share/docs/linux-source, which seems like a better place :)
 * Laney longs for the day when ppc isn't building gcc
 * Laney also longs for it to pretend to catch up so that some more rebuilds can be done
<ajmitch> Laney: good luck with that
<gch-scilifelab> hi everyone, how can I do force the inclusion of the original tarball in a package?
<Zhenech> do you mean "-sa" to debuild?
<gch-scilifelab> I'm trying to dput a package but is complaining because cannot find the orig tarball
<Zhenech> how do you build it?
<gch-scilifelab> bzr builddeb -S
<tumbleweed> bzr builddeb -S -- -sa
<Laney> add -- -sa
<Laney> BLAST
<gch-scilifelab> I've packaged a couple of package this way and I had no problems till now
<tumbleweed> ^5
<Zhenech> as the two guys who type faster than me say
<Laney> it's slightly difficult to track options like that down since they are passed through multiple layers before getting to dpkg-genchanges
<gch-scilifelab> uoh thanks, it's including the source now :-)
<tumbleweed> gch-scilifelab: generally, it detects when teh orig tarball needs to be included, from a -1 in the version (does it detect it on -0ubuntu1 too? I can't remember). But occasionally it needs to be hinted
<gch-scilifelab> ok
<gch-scilifelab> I was writing that question, hehe
<gch-scilifelab> because in my other packages the source was automatically included
<Laney> so it's like bzr builddeb -> debuild -> dpkg-buildpackage -> dpkg-genchanges
<Laney> in whose manpage finally you find -sa documented
 * Laney gets back to packing: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/somestuff.jpg
<gch-scilifelab> wired..
<gch-scilifelab> hehe thanks!
<Zhenech> Laney, tried .xz already? ;)
<tumbleweed> Laney: moving your life?
<tumbleweed> does taht mean you've finished your PhD?
<Laney> no, moving within the same city
<Laney> finishing that looks less likely
<Laney> you know the deal ;-)
<tumbleweed> yeah, I do :/
<tumbleweed> although a few of the people I left behind have since finished
<tumbleweed> it is apparently possible
<Laney> it's moving out of shared accom to my own (rented) house though, which is a nice step
<tumbleweed> nice
 * Laney discovers a curiously large number of keyslips
<jtaylor> anyone got a little time and a modern cpu with avx?
<jtaylor> got an request to backport fftw3 with avx support to precise, I want to know if its worth it
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: have a benchmark for me to run?
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1161138/
<jtaylor> from the quantal package
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: ok, just about to go home. I'll have a look
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> exchange enabe-single with enable-single
<jtaylor> numbers for larger problems than 1024 might also be interesting, e.g. 4096
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1161201/
<jtaylor> thx
<jtaylor> factor 5, a bit less than hoped
<tumbleweed> not bad, though
<jtaylor> yes but sse gives 3-3.5, I hoped for 6-7
<tumbleweed> ah
<jtaylor> probably hits a memory limit
<jtaylor> but it probably still worth it
<aboudreault> what does this error mean? dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library liblwgeom-2.0.1.so needed by debian/postgis/usr/bin/shp2pgsql-gui (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '/usr/lib/postgresql/9.1/lib')
<aboudreault> I though it was again a rpath issue, but chrpath -delete doesn't work this time
<aboudreault> nvm, I think I found it.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-23
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning ;)
<aboudreault> hmm, looks like it didn't work.
<aboudreault> what does this error mean? dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library liblwgeom-2.0.1.so needed by debian/postgis/usr/bin/shp2pgsql-gui (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '/usr/lib/postgresql/9.1/lib')
<aboudreault>  I though it was again a rpath issue, but chrpath -delete doesn't work this time
<geser> have you checked in which directory that mentioned library gets installed for your package?
<aboudreault> geser, I just tried --disable-rpath ... the lib is in: debian/postgresql-9.1-postgis/usr/lib/postgresql/9.1/lib/liblwgeom-2.0.1.so
<aboudreault> geser, the disable-rpath didn't work
<aboudreault> geser, How should I resolve this?
<xnox> please, please delete boost1.46 from quantal archive, no r-deps now
<dholbach> MOTU meeting in 3m?
 * ogra_ wasnt aware #ubuntu-meeting is 3 meters away from #ubuntu-motu ... intresting
<jocarter> hrmph. missed it again :(
<ajmitch> jocarter: you're not the only one :)
<shadeslayer> I had a quick poke at sqlite transition for kraft, it doesn't depend on libsqllite3 itself, but depends on libqt4-sql-sqlite, which inturn depends on libsqlite3-0
<shadeslayer> which makes me think, why is kraft on that list?
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> seems that it's not on that list anymore
<shadeslayer> yy
<shadeslayer> yay
<xnox> shadeslayer: yeah, I "fixed" the list ;-)
<xnox> shadeslayer: if you are talking about ~ubuntu-archive/transitions/sqlite.html one
<shadeslayer> yeah
<shadeslayer> xnox: on more fix, kannel also depends on sqlite 3
<shadeslayer>   Depends: libsqlite3-0
<shadeslayer> it *also* depends on   Depends: libsqlite0
<shadeslayer> so lolwut
<xnox> shadeslayer: well it handles both. For some packages, which I did analysis for. I filed wishlist bugs with a tag 'sqlite2'
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=sqlite2
<shadeslayer> ok
<xnox> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/sqlite.html
<shadeslayer> uhoh, csync2
<xnox> it looks like if/when we port gpe stack we should be ok.
<shadeslayer> I heard csync fails alot of tests :P
<shadeslayer> xnox: gpe stack?
<xnox> the palm stuff.
<shadeslayer> uh ... no idea what you're talking about :P
<topo__> hi
<topo__> i'm looking for help to pakage my for ubuntu, am i in the right place?
<shadeslayer> topo__: sure
<shadeslayer> there's also #ubuntu-packaging though
<shadeslayer> which might be better suited to your needs
<topo__> I didn't know, I will try there.
<topo__> thanks
<topo__> hi
<topo__> i have a quick question about uploading an app to ubuntu
<topo__> another quick question, via developer.ubuntu.com or thar i can get statistics about people downloading my app, etc... do you know if i can still get that if my package gets included in ubuntu via de debian repos?
<xnox> usually you can't get reliable statistics, because we have world-wide mirrors, run by community.
<xnox> for ppa's you can get some download statistics, but again it's unreliable because people can run local mirrors.
<xnox> there is popcon where people voluntary report which packages they use, but it's highly selective.
<topo__> thanks
<topo__> is it likely that my app get rejected for ubuntu software center because it is still under development?
<topo__> also, once my app gets accepted in the ubuntu repos, how easily is to deploy updates, do they have to be reviewd again or any changes in the ppa will automatically get into the repos?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-24
<micahg> gilir: xubuntu will be uploading an indicator gtk2 stack if lubuntu is interested in it
<gilir> micahg, that would be great :-)
<micahg> gilir: so, there should be no reason to unseed it actually as the binaries should still be in the archive
<gilir> micahg, yes, but the ISO build is failing for now because of this
<micahg> orly?  that's not good
<micahg> which part is failing
<gilir> micahg, it's a depend on our seed, but it's normal :-)
<gilir> I'll add it back when the binaries will be available
<gilir> micahg, any help needed for the packaging of the gtk2 stack ?
<micahg> gilir: not sure, mr_pouit is doing it, I'm guessing he could probably use some help (should just be reuploading the old version as a new source with the gtk3 binaries removed or something like that)
<gilir> micahg, ok, I'll ping him tomorrow to see if he needs any help
<micahg> gilir: thanks!
<TheDrums> micahg: For what reasons would backportpackage fail?
<TheDrums> http://paste.openstack.org/show/20454  Granted, I have no idea what I'm doing.
<micahg> TheDrums: you don't have a key available to sign the upload, you might need -k and your keyid
<TheDrums> Figured it was that, had hoped it wasn't.
<micahg> TheDrums: I'm happy to stage uploads in my backports PPA if you'll test, just tell me which releases (or file the bugs)
<micahg> *through requestbackport (12.04+) of course :)
<TheDrums> Well, I figured the one in debian stable or testing was as good as any.
<TheDrums> (And had the needed feature that I think is neededa)
<micahg> it's in quantal :)
<TheDrums> That'd work fine too.
<TheDrums> I'd be good with testing, would you just pull it over from Q?
<micahg> TheDrums: yeah, and build it on the release in question
<TheDrums> SSO is killing Firefox, funtimes.
<TheDrums> micahg: Bus Error (core dumped), looks like I won't be doing this right now either. :/  I take it you do need that request?
<micahg> TheDrums: tell me which releases and I'll file the request and subscribe you
<micahg> TheDrums: you still have to do the testing though:)
<TheDrums> No problem!  I was going to try filing another day if so, but precise.
<TheDrums> Thank you very much!
<micahg> you're welcome
<micahg> TheDrums: please fill in the reason on the bug after I subscribe you
<micahg> TheDrums: bug 1041010
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041010 in Precise Backports "Please backport mosh 1.2.2-1 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041010
<TheDrums> micahg: "Added feature to pass commands to ssh such as keyfile and port"  Seem understandable?  If so, I'll fill.
<micahg> TheDrums: uploaded, there's a slight PPA backlog, should be good by Sunday hopefully
<TheDrums> Finally was able to edit it, confirm button was missing.
<shadeslayer> so, I'm looking at bug 1040828, just to be clear, is it just a matter of dropping gambas2-gb-db-sqlite2 and making gambas2-gb-db-sqlite3 provide gambas2-gb-db-sqlite2 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040828 in gambas3 (Ubuntu) "please drop gambas2-gb-db-sqlite2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040828
<shadeslayer> I guess I could also drop libsqlite0-dev
<shadeslayer> I guess it'll need a transitional package
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> yay, we might have some buildd time for haskell this weekend
<geser> how far are we with the rebuilds?
<Laney> maybe 2/3
<gch-scilifelab> hi! A question: I've packaged a software that has a Makefile. In this makefile of corse there is the install rule
<gch-scilifelab> the thing is that the package is built without any problems, but... when installing the resulting .deb nothing is installed
<gch-scilifelab> the files that should go to /usr/local/bin as the Makefile says are missing
<gch-scilifelab> any help please?
<Zhenech> does the makefile honor DESTDIR?
<gch-scilifelab> yes it does
<gch-scilifelab> wait I'll paste it to you
<Zhenech> :)
<directhe`> gch-scilifelab, so in your dirty build tree, you have a debian/mypackagename/usr/local/lib/stuff folder?
<directhe`> i.e. after you've run dpkg-buildpackage - this is NOT something you should have created yourself
<gch-scilifelab> http://pastebin.com/hYX6fzNL
<Zhenech> gch-scilifelab, first line should be
<Zhenech> DESTDIR?=/usr/local/bin
<Zhenech> (do not overwrite the destdir if you pass it on the commandline)
<gch-scilifelab> outch
<gch-scilifelab> Zhenech, ok, but I think this is working (I think), because before I had the absolute paths (without the DESTDIR env var) and the package was not building
<Zhenech> post logs :)
<gch-scilifelab> directhe, I dind't create any folder by hand, if this is you're asking
<gch-scilifelab> ok
<gch-scilifelab> the last log http://pastebin.com/ujesty7y
<Zhenech> gch-scilifelab, as the error says: you have files in usr/local/, which is not permited
<gch-scilifelab> but.. I don't understand the error message sorry, It says "dh_usrlocal: debian/freebayes/usr/local/bin/freebayes is not a directory", and of course is not a directory, I doesn't even exist
<gch-scilifelab> I'm a bit lost :S
<directhe`> wait, that's not how destdir works
<directhe`> destdir should be the root of a tree - e.g. to install files into /usr/bin/ then you use DESTDIR=/usr and install into ${DESTDIR}/bin
<Zhenech> oh, right
<directhe`> or, in this case, DESTDIR=debian/freebayes/usr/
<gch-scilifelab> ahh
<gch-scilifelab> so I should modify my Makefile with DESTDIR=/usr and then in the install rules install -m 0755 bin/freebayes $(DESTDIR)/local/bin??
<Zhenech> DESTDIR?=/usr
<gch-scilifelab> ops yes
<directhe`> ( http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/DESTDIR.html )
<directhe`> gch-scilifelab, your make file should use DESTDIR?=/usr/local and install to ${DESTDIR}/bin
<directhe`> and debian's build will override DESTDIR
<directhe`> it is correct for upstream software to assume /usr/local
<directhe`> the point of /usr/local is it's for user-installed bullshit which didn't deserve to come from a package. packaged things go into /usr
<directhe`> so upstream, assume /usr/local
<directhe`> downstream, you build assuming the "install prefix" is /usr - but the "make install" rule needs to respect DESTDIR because during the package build, the files are make installed into a temporary folder
<gch-scilifelab> I see, thank you directhe
<gch-scilifelab> so in the link you sent me it says: You should not set the value of DESTDIR in your âMakefileâ at all
<gch-scilifelab> if I don't set it but I prepend the DESTDIR var in the install rules
<gch-scilifelab> shold it work?
<gch-scilifelab> directhe, doing what you say seems not to work at all. I mean, the package is built, but when I try to do a dpkg --install, this error is rised: dpkg: error processing ../../freebayes_0.9.6-0ubuntu5_all.deb (--install):
<gch-scilifelab>  trying to overwrite directory '/bin' in package iputils-ping 3:20101006-1ubuntu1 with nondirectory
<gch-scilifelab> is if like it was ignoring the DESTDIR when installing
<gch-scilifelab> any idea?
<gch-scilifelab> well I've to go, thank you very much for your help:-)
<dholbach> I just put up some very crude, but working code at lp:~dholbach/+junk/lintian-todo which might help us put up working lists for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative (search for a lintian tag or package, etc. and it will show you which packages are in Debian and which are in Ubuntu and what lintian has to complain about)
<dholbach> just in case anyone is interested
<micahg> dholbach: you do realize that we have a lintian lab now, right?
<dholbach> I'm not I realise
<dholbach> I'm not sure I realise
<micahg> dholbach: http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/
<Laney> lintian.ubuntuwire.com
<dholbach> yes - it's used as a basis for it
<micahg> ok
<dholbach> but I didn't find it easy to figure out which of the packages listed were in Debian and which in Ubuntu
<dholbach> have a great weekend everyone
<micahg> dholbach: we could probably update the lab to show which packages are in Debian
<dholbach> if that's possible, that'd be great
<dholbach> alright, got to go - see you :)
<xnox> micahg: ideally the lab should run twice, once for debian & once for ubuntu and then show the diff or tags introduced in/by ubuntu changes
<tumbleweed> xnox: broder is the person you need to talk to
<broder> xnox: "patches welcome". alternatively, you can get this information from UDD - it imports both debian and ubuntu lintian tags, so you can do something like create table ubuntu_only_lintian as select * from ubuntu_lintian except select * from lintian;
<xnox> broder: wow, I didn't know udd had that =)
<xnox> awesome
<broder> yeah, it's great as a crutch to demotivate you from actually writing better features :)
<tumbleweed> broder: btw, \o/ on another fun CTF (and nicely done, wgrant)
<broder> haha, thanks :)
<broder> i actually had very little to do with this one. mostly a little bit of playtesting and some sysop work when things started
<broder> but i will pass that along
<broder> (andy, greg, and sidd did most of the work)
<tumbleweed> the python code wasn't the prettiest, but at least it wasn't all ruby :P
<micahg> hyperair: did you forget to subscribe ubuntu-release to your banshee FFe or is it not ready yet?
<micahg> xnox: go for it :)
<micahg> xnox: but, the Ubuntu only stuff should be separate, it's nice to see all tags for Ubuntu as a whole as well in case we want to drive a fixing of a certain tag in Debian as well, like cjwatson did with the dpkg-maintscript-helper stuff
<xnox> micahg: true, true.
<Laney> the UDD table doesn't have historical data
<Laney> so you can't guarantee to be able to find the base version
<xnox> Laney: hmm...
<xnox> didn't think of that
<micahg> base version shouldn't matter much, if the tag is in Ubuntu and not in Debian and the package is, just flag that with the versions in Debian that it's not it
<micahg> *not in
<micahg> there shouldn't be too many packages where we're totally diverged from Debian (~200-300)
<micahg> maybe less
<ogra_> micahg, are you still the spare-time-chromium maintainer ?
<ogra_> it segfaults on arm currtently (havent collected data yet but will do so the naxt days)
<micahg> ogra_: spare time is the keyword, been sorely lacking, kenvandine has been doing uploads as of late, I hope to get it going again before quantal release, if you have a patch, go ahead and submit a merge proposal or bug/debdiff
<ogra_> heh no, i only have a bug atm :)
<ogra_> no patches
<ogra_> but i switched ac100 to lubuntu ... so chromium gets some arnm testing now
<ogra_> *arm
<jtaylor> did we ever transition libnetcdf?
<jtaylor> I don't see a tracker
<jtaylor> nevermind libnetcdfc != libnetcdf
<xnox> is there a Kubuntu dev channel?
<TheLordOfTime> isnt it #kubuntu-devel?
<TheLordOfTime> i think it is :P
<commandoline> Hello, I'm trying to improve my packaging skills a bit by packaging a python 3 (and only 3) application. Does anyone know an example application which is also packaged for python 3 only so I can look how it's done there? Most documentation is for porting python 2 apps to python 3 and I can't manage to succesfully build a deb based on that.
<tumbleweed> commandoline: python3-chardet jumps to mind: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/python-modules/packages/python3-chardet/trunk/debian/rules?revision=15258&view=markup
<commandoline> tumbleweed: thanks, seems just what I needed :)
<commandoline> tumbleweed: That package gave away some of the clues I was missing, it works now. Thanks again.
<TheLordOfTime> is there a method to request removal of a package, and have that package instead point to a newer package name?
<TheLordOfTime> (curious)
<tumbleweed> http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  specifically in Ubuntu, though.,
<TheLordOfTime> or are the guidelines the same?
<tumbleweed> the same
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Thanks
<xnox> can anybody give me a crash course in haskel transitions?
<xnox> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ghc.html
<xnox> rebuild - if it builds upload?
<xnox> or
<xnox> rebuild - if it builds & becomes installable upload?
<micahg> xnox: things have to be built in order to be installable, so, you just make sure if you're uploading something, it doesn't depend on something else uninstallable
<xnox> ok
<xnox> micahg: and the fact that we have dependency levels 1 & 14-51 means that we started a new cycle without fully finishing a previous one?
<xnox> or circular deps?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-25
<xnox> micahg: is ghc transition tracker out of date?
<xnox> i want to run ben locally, because edos is out of date, i can't run ben cause ocaml is borked, ocaml is tracked by ocaml's edos check
 * xnox trips over himself in dependency loops
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> could someone give me a usdeful link about upload package in backport repository?
<alo21> done
<alo21> jocarter: hi... can you help me for a while, please?
<Guest7311> hi
<TheDrums> micahg: Package completed yesterday, installed today seemingly fine and was able to connect to the remote server on an alt port using a keyfile (So, using the feature to pass commands)
<TheDrums> lintian even pretty much liked it.
<Laney> bah
<Laney> my PC is dead and it has the only copy of my rebuild script
<tumbleweed> so my inbox gets a reprieve?
<tumbleweed> you should have published your rebuild script somewhere
<Laney> haha
<Laney> yes, but it's not very helpful to say that now :(
<tumbleweed> how complex was it?
<Laney> also, -changes goes to your inbox?
<Laney> not incredibly
<tumbleweed> no, an "automated" inbox. I really should have a separate -changes inbox, because it's mixed with bug reports and other stuff
<Laney> i'm half annoyed and half excited that i might get to buy new toys
 * tumbleweed had to replace almost everythig at my parents' house recently, thanks to lightning
<tumbleweed> only things that survived unscathed were WRT54GLs and the equipment behind them :P
<Laney> ghetto surge protectors
<TheLordOfTime> how are Universe SRUs handled, same as main SRUs?
<TheLordOfTime> or does a different team handle them
<tumbleweed> same
<alo21> hi. Can someone tell me (clearly) what should I do to upload debdiff (for upgrade) in ubuntu?
<TheLordOfTime> you dont upload to ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> you just got your answer in -bugs dude
<TheLordOfTime> xnox is a *core dev*
<TheLordOfTime> he knows the process in and out
<TheLordOfTime> you upload to LP
<Laney> uh
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  he wants to SRU a package
<xnox> alo21: if you have upload rights, just upload. Else you will need a sponsor.
<TheLordOfTime> and fix $arbitrary_number of bugs at once
<TheLordOfTime> xnox:  i dont think alo21 is a dev :P
<TheLordOfTime> or a MOTU, or Security, or...
<TheLordOfTime> i'm going to stop now :P
<xnox> alo21: to get a sponsor please either (i) add a patch to a bug & subscribe ubuntu-sponsors OR (ii) create a merge proposal.
<xnox> alo21: sponsors will comment on your bug or merge proposal and point if anything needs changing.
<xnox> alo21: have you prepared a debdiff or a merge proposal before?
<alo21> xnox: no
<xnox> alo21: ok. What do you want to fix?
<TheLordOfTime> ... oops...  why is it whenever i update, my system always dies :/
 * TheLordOfTime shall return
<TheLordOfTime> whoops, wrong channel
<TheLordOfTime> damn laptop...
<alo21> xnox: these: https://launchpad.net/~alo21/+assignedbugs?search=Search&field.status=In+Progress
<xnox> alo21: all of those are bug in the upstream project which happens to use launchpad.
<TheLordOfTime> bright
<TheLordOfTime> right*
<TheLordOfTime> alo21:  those don't get "fixed" in Ubuntu, they get fixed upstream
<TheLordOfTime> by the developers, typically
<xnox> alo21: to fix those you need to probably branch $ bzr branch lp:subdownloader
<xnox> alo21: commit your fix with $ bzr commit --fixes lp:NNNNN
<TheLordOfTime> (they can still be "SRU'd, but...")
<xnox> alo21: where NNNNN is bug numbers you want to fix.
<alo21> xnox: done
<xnox> alo21: and push back to launchpad?
<alo21> xnox: yes
<xnox> alo21: ok. let me check your branches.
<xnox> alo21: can you please go to that branch in launchpad.
<xnox> alo21:  and click on "Link a bug report" such that bugs & branches are together & easy to find.
<xnox> alo21: is this the branch with fixes? https://code.launchpad.net/~alo21/subdownloader/subdownloader
<xnox> alo21: seems like so.
<TheLordOfTime> i'd think so xnox :P
<alo21> xnox: this too
<alo21> https://code.launchpad.net/~subdownloader-developers/subdownloader/trunk
<xnox> alo21: So your next step is to click "propose for merging" into lp:subdownloader
<alo21> xnox: wait...
<xnox> alo21: and hopefully subdownloader upstream will accept your fixes.
<xnox> alo21: yes?!
<alo21> xnox: this package exists for ubuntu only... and I can/did upload all the changes into lp:subdownloader
<xnox> alo21: ok. In that case on each individual bug you need to click "Affects distribution" select ubuntu & the correct package name.
<alo21> ok
<xnox> alo21: did you also make a bug-fix release ?
<alo21> xnox: a .deb with fixed bug?
<xnox> alo21: no, source tarball as upstream
<xnox> alo21: .tar.gz I can get from https://launchpad.net/subdownloader/+download
<xnox> ?
<alo21> xnox: no
<xnox> alo21: you should. Cause new version with all these fixes should first enter development series (currently quantal) first.
<TheLordOfTime> ^
<xnox> alo21: and we need an upstream release for that =)
<alo21> xnox: even if this package is for Precise only?
<tumbleweed> anything you want fixed in precise must be fixed in quantal first
<xnox> alo21: it's not just for precise only. You see people will upgrade to quantal eventually. So you don't want them to have everything working in precise and in October upgrade and get broken subdownloader again.
<xnox> alo21: hence we do a Top-down approach. First fix the package such that users will never see the bug again, and then backport fixes to stable releases.
<alo21> tumbleweed: We use pytho 3.0 in Quantal, but we use python 2.7 in Precise
<tumbleweed> alo21: but have these bugs been fixed in quantal?
<xnox> alo21: are all the bugs fixed in quantal?
<xnox> alo21: do they affect subdownloader as it is in quantal?
<tumbleweed> if quantal simply isn't effected by these bugs, that's fine. If it is, it should be fixed first
<alo21> tumbleweed: xnox never tried.. I think is better if you give me a documentation about it instead of chat
<tumbleweed> !sru|alo21
<ubottu> alo21: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<alo21> tumbleweed: is all?
<tumbleweed> considering that the same version is published in natty -> quantal, it's most likely affected :)
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subdownloader
<xnox> tumbleweed: that package is synced from Debian by DPAPT
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> alo21: ideally, quantal is fixed by fixing it in debian, which means you should do a new upstream release
<Laney> doesn't seem very well maintained
<alo21> thanks all
<tumbleweed> team is the maintainer, which by the PAPT rules means anyone in the team is welcome to work on it
<tumbleweed> so, this is solveable...
<xnox> yeah... apart from package got removed lol
<tumbleweed> it could get back in if debian bug 606993 was fixed
<ubottu> Debian bug 606993 in subdownloader "subdownloader: always fail to download selected subs" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/606993
<tumbleweed> alo21: ^ providing a patch there would be useful
<TheLordOfTime> i saw a patch for that somewhere, in the bugs... where was that one...
<xnox> tumbleweed: debian is missing a point release so maybe it is fixed.....
<alo21> tumbleweed: we do not use system patch
<xnox> tumbleweed: all your code belong to us
<xnox> =)
<tumbleweed> :P
<TheLordOfTime> tumbleweed:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subdownloader/+bug/306589  <-- similar bug i think...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306589 in subdownloader (Ubuntu) "Error when clicking 'Download' (ascii codec can't encode)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<TheLordOfTime> there's a patch on that (just saying)
<tumbleweed> patches are the universal lowest common denominator, everyone uses them :)
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: yes, it's marked as being forwarded to there
<xnox> alo21: speak to other subdownloader developers cause: your software has been removed from Debian, it will be soon removed in Ubuntu as well. Because it was buggy & out of date in Debian.
<TheLordOfTime> really?
 * TheLordOfTime refreshes the debian bug
<TheLordOfTime> not showing its forwarded, at least not to me. :/
<alo21> xnox: ok. thank you!
 * TheLordOfTime goes to beat firefox to see if firefox is breaking
<tumbleweed> TheLordOfTime: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=17;bug=606993
<xnox> alo21: somebody needs to package & update subdownloader in Debian. Last release in Debian is 2.0.14 which is old.
<TheLordOfTime> ah, there it is
<alo21> xnox: Let me fix the last bug, I will create a 2.0.15 release... and then I do what I have to do to re-iclude subdownloader in Debian
<alo21> ok?
<xnox> alo21: yes. Please contact Debian Python Applications Team when you have a new release with bugfixes.
<alo21> xnox: ok
<tumbleweed> better: contact gothicx, the maintainer
<tumbleweed> if he doesn't reply, contact PAPT
<Laney> recreated the script enough
<Laney> uploads incoming
<Laney> silly firefox builds
<bkerensa> heg
#ubuntu-motu 2012-08-26
<micahg> xnox: the tracker isn't always 100% right, not sure if it's out of date ATM
<TheDrums> micahg: Ready to mark the bug with the checkmarks, I take it you did no modifications?   (Getting someone to try the 64bit one)
<micahg> TheDrums: no need to try both
<TheDrums> Oh, alright.  Thanks.
<TheDrums> https://bugs.launchpad.net/precise-backports/+bug/1041010 Awesomeness.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1041010 in Precise Backports "Please backport mosh 1.2.2-1 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> Logan_: what did you ask me to do a no change rebuild of and is it still needed?
<shadeslayer> shouldn't libsqlite3-dev now provide libsqlite-dev?
<shadeslayer> since there's a ongoing transition to sqlite3
<tumbleweed> only if they are API-compatible
<micahg> shadeslayer: no, as they're not compatible
<shadeslayer> ah, makes sense then
<iulian> Laney: I shall be doing some haskell rebuilds in a bit. What level are you on?
<TheLordOfTime> if you fix a dep-wait in a PPA, will it autoresolve itself eventually?
<TheLordOfTime> (added the dependency to the PPA, for instance)
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: yes, a dep wait should automatically retry at some point (assuming it's in that state and not a build failure state)
<Laney> iulian: following the tracker, but be aware of false negatives there
<iulian> Laney: I've just done 22. What do you mean by false negatives?
<Laney> eg. cmdargs chell debian
<tumbleweed> comments on reports like that would be so useful
<tumbleweed> random thought. How about putting a link to an etherpad on each thing like that?
<tumbleweed> hacky comments...
<Laney> wishlist bug on src:ben?
<Laney> go go go
<tumbleweed> or js comments like disqus
<iulian> Oh.
 * tumbleweed contemplates a generic comment service that we can use on all our table-y reports
<Laney> mehdi is usually quite receptive to ideas
<tumbleweed> the complication is that it outputs static pages, like most of our reports
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: like disqus, it could be added in with a single js file
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: exactly
<jtaylor> :( libpng-dev:i386 is not coinstallable, kind of a core package to have this issue
<jtaylor> ops no I removed half my system _again_ ._.
<jtaylor> damn my lazy reading ^^
<ajmitch> I don't think you're meant to do that
<tumbleweed> as long as you don't remove the wrong half...
<jtaylor> looks like the wrong half, it includes ubuntu-minimal
<ajmitch> should be easy to reinstall then
<jtaylor> yes not the first time I did this ._.
<Laney> iulian: you doing some more rounds?
<iulian> Laney: I stopped at persistent-postgresql.
<Laney> iulian: I saw. Just wondering if you're doing more tonight or if someone else (me) should.
<iulian> I'll do some more tomorrow in the evening.
<Laney> k
<ajmitch> Laney: ghc transition is almost done then?
<iulian> Will be done in a few days I reckon.
<Laney> well, in the week it's more difficult
<ajmitch> because of buildd queues?
<Laney> oui
<ajmitch> I wish I could help, I really do :)
<xnox> Laney: I don't understand the armhf FTBFS I mean Error 132 is highly descriptive and no verbose builds or anything.
<Laney> 132 - 128
<xnox> at least gcc tells you why it refused to compile somthing
<Laney> er
<Laney> it means the compiler segfaulted
<xnox> hmmmm.... interesting. Shall I try targetting LLVM / C -> full compile instead of generating native code?
<xnox> or running ghc under gdb (?!) to try to get a crash?
<Laney> might be an idea to try to get a minimal reproducer first
<Laney> but it should be targetting llvm already on arm
<xnox> hmm...
<xnox> Laney: well i build haskell-cmdargs three times and it segfaulted, and my limited haskell debugging skills didn't take me far.
<Laney> on armhf?
 * Laney stabs scheat
<Laney> it reproduced for me on my panda, but that's sadly not where I am right now
<Laney> and scheat appears to not like me
<Laney> so can't help you much right now xnox, sorry
<xnox> I see.
<xnox> it's not so much as help, but something new to learn. /me has no clue about haskell tbh
<Laney> I got the build-deps of whichever package it was
<Laney> possibly haskell-chell
<Laney> and then unpacked the sourcepackage and runhaskell Setup.hs/lhs configure && runhaskell Setup.hs/lhs build
<Laney> or possibly I installed cabal-install and did apt-get build-dep haskell-chell && cabal install chell
<Laney> all on the panda/quantal, and it failed in exactly the same way as the build does
 * Laney goes away
<xnox> good night Laney
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-19
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> Hi
<obounaim> What is the difference between "https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html" and "https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+localpackagediffs"
<siretart> obounaim: the mechanism and tools that create them
<Noskcaj> slangasek, debian will only take the autoconf patch if they have an explanation of why it exists. Is there one?
<slangasek> Noskcaj: not from me; it's not my patch. You'll need to look at the package history
<Noskcaj> slangasek, i did, i couldn't find anything other than a changelog entry. I was hoping you'd know.
<slangasek> afraid not
<slangasek> did you check the bzr history?
<Noskcaj> yeah, nothing
<slangasek> Noskcaj: so this patch was added back when Scott was actively maintaining libtool, at least if Ubuntu if not in Debian.  But I can't sort out why it was ever needed.  I would suggest dropping the patch and making autoconf a sync.
<slangasek> autoreconf already supports autodetecting if libtool is used, and if it's not used I don't see why we care about running libtoolize
<Noskcaj> ok. Should i file a sync bug now or wait until the next debian release?
<slangasek> Noskcaj: the sync should be done instead of the merge you proposed, AFAICS
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll do that later today.
<slangasek> cool, thanks
<Noskcaj> bug 1214138
<ubottu> bug 1214138 in autoconf (Ubuntu) "Sync autoconf 2.69-1.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1214138
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-20
<micahg> dupondje: hi, you merged audacious-plugins last, are you interested in looking at it again (I think it might be a sync)
<dholbach> good morning
<ffio> i want to learn about packaging, from where can i start ?
<ffio_> any videos or links to refer ?
<sicness> ffio_, my learned by http://www.debian.org/devel/
<sicness> but it wasn't easy ;)
<ffio_> sicness: i need to read new maintainers guide right ?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-21
<Noskcaj> How do i set up a launchpad autobuilder?
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> afternoon dholbach
<dholbach> hi Noskcaj
<ffio> are their any videos for leanring ubuntu packaging ?
<Rhonda> There are wiki pages about it.  Not sure if dholbach (or someone else) did some packaging tutorial video
<Noskcaj> ffio, some old ones from dholbach, it think there's others
<Noskcaj> if you have questions, we're more than willing to help
<ffio> Rhonda: i followed wiki, but it would be good to see some video tutorials to get more better understanding.
<ffio> Noskcaj: thanks you so much :)
<dholbach> the video are quite old
<dholbach> developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/ is probably a better start
<ffio> dholbach: currently i am following the same link.
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> I won't have time for quite a while to update any videos
<ffio> dholbach: would be useful to watch the videos ? as they are old ?
<dholbach> probably not too much
<ffio> ok
<Noskcaj> ffio, A good place to start is the MoM. it's at merges.ubuntu.com
<ffio> i read the wiki, but i can't get what  a .dsc file is . it's a meta file which contains dependencies related info right ?
<Noskcaj> And reviewing debian mentors packages is another good way
<Noskcaj> ffio, pretty much
<ffio> Noskcaj: :)
<ffio> ok doing up thing practically now as i have setup testdrive and downloaded the iso.
<ffio> developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug-example.html#documenting-the-fix
<ffio> ^ in the above link i was not able to get what the notation
<ffio> i.e. before debian/control: added projet's homepage why * sign is there ?
<Noskcaj> ffio, it's a way of listing things
<Noskcaj> And yay, testdrive
<ffio> it's automatically created ? or just shown to make it understand.
<Noskcaj> You write it like that
<ffio> ok :)
<ffio> and before Peggy Sue there is -- sign ? what does that mean ?
<ffio> because all the content is added so they all have + sign in front of them. but can't get why -- sign is there after +
<ffio> need to go for diff tutorial too
<geser> ffio: the -- is part of the format how changelog entries look like (it's the final line with the author and a timestamp)
<ffio> geser: yeah ok got it :)
<geser> ffio: usually dch takes care of the format, you just have to document the changes you have done (the bullet(*) points)
<ffio> ok :)
<geser> the bzr diff output is just for checking if the changes are those you really intended
<ffio> ok just to check wether the changes that were made were what we intended or not.
<ffio> s/were/we
<geser> exactly
<ffio> :)
<geser> sometimes you realize while testing that more changes are needed (and can check that way that the final diff has them all) or you have to redo your fix because it didn't work as assumed (and check that the final diff has no parts left from a previous attempt)
<ffio> going bit overhead.
<ffio> doing it practically will make me things understand more better
<Noskcaj> ffio, yeah. tip: once you get everything worked out, go back and fix everything you did while learning
<ffio> Noskcaj: you mean to revert back all the changes i made ?
<Noskcaj> ffio, no, you will realise you did stuff wrong, trust me
<ffio> Noskcaj: ok :)
 * Noskcaj just got his first package into debian. celebrates.
 * ffio congratulate Noskcaj :D
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> Can someone look at the merge for python-json-patch? I can't tell if it's a sync or not
<obounaim> Hi is there a way in bzr to generate a diff between two branches for example lp:ubuntu/hello and lp:debian/hello
<obounaim> thanks
<lderan> obounaim: i think its bzr diff -r <2nd branch> from within the first branch
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-22
<zequence> Hi. Ubuntu Studio dev team would like some assistance in uploading two packages. ubuntustudio-installer and ubuntustudio-menu.
<zequence> Anyone around who could assist?
<Noskcaj> zequence, I don't have powers, but have you got branches made and lintian clean?
<zequence> OvenWerks: Maybe you could answer this?
<zequence> Just headed out :)
<geser> Noskcaj: you asked yesterday about python-json-patch: I gave it a quick look yesterday. The 1st Ubuntu change was for python3 packages which are now also in the Debian package (but you might still need to check if we miss something when we drop our changes) and the 2nd Ubuntu delta was for a build failure and you need to check if the Debian package builds (if yes you can drop it)
<Noskcaj> geser, ok, thanks
<Noskcaj> geser, builds fine for me, i think it's a sync
<ffio> hi Noskcaj :)
<geser> Noskcaj: I took now a more closer look and I agree: it's a sync
<Noskcaj> hey ffio
<Noskcaj> geser, Do you have the "powers" to sync it, or should i file a bug?
<geser> Noskcaj: you need to file a bug; I've some "powers" but not enough to sync a package in main
<Noskcaj> geser, ok, doing now
<dholbach> good morning
<ffio> good morning dholback :)
<ffio> watched you videos :P they were nice
<ral> I've got an updated package in the debian NEW queue. The current ubuntu package has some ubuntu specific changes, so I believe I need a merge rather than a sync. Is there anything I can do to help get things ready on the ubuntu side whilst I wait for NEW to be processed?
<Ampelbein> ral: You could contact the last uploader in ubuntu and inform him of the new package so that he can check and prepare the package to upload.
<ral> Ampelbein: Ok, thanks.
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: sorry I didn't get back to you
<OvenWerks> I was already abed :)
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, don't worry
<OvenWerks> lint has been done on both.
<OvenWerks> there is a snapshot of each in my personal ppa
<OvenWerks> micahg was about to do them sunday night, but seems to have gone away before he finished
<OvenWerks> (the finished packages may be sitting on his disk awaiting upload)
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: ^^ (sorry)
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: the packages again are ubuntustudio-installer and ubuntustudio-menu
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, ok. i'll leave everything for micahg then
<OvenWerks> ok, know when he will be back?
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: we are hoping to have these in before FF
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, no, sorry. Someone on #xubuntu-devel should.
<OvenWerks> ok
<Noskcaj> But get the bzr branch for both ready, i'll check the code when you do
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: been ready for a week or two.
<Noskcaj> ok. Where are the branches then?
<OvenWerks> -installer has already been reviewed
<Noskcaj> ok
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu
<Noskcaj> thanks, i'll get to that soon
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-installer
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, michag is in #xubuntu-offtopic now if you need to talk to him
<OvenWerks> Thankyou
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, Why didn't you add your email to the copyright file?
<OvenWerks> I was following the style for machine readable copyright files.
<OvenWerks> none of the exapmles show emails
<OvenWerks> except for upstream.
<OvenWerks> Noskcaj: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/#files-paragraph for example
<Noskcaj> OvenWerks, ok. Some packages use them, some don't. I've found a few minor issues that i'll put in a branch for you to go through
<OvenWerks> sure
<OvenWerks> Ubuntustudio has two packages that need uploading. Is there anyone available to help? ubuntustudio-installer and ubuntustudio-menu. both have been reviewed and tweaked.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-23
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> evening dholbach
<smartboyhw> Hello dholbach
<dholbach> hi Noskcaj, smartboyhw
<smartboyhw> Hmm, I normally say hi to dholbach in #ubuntu-community-team, not here, oops
<sladen> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi sladen
<Noskcaj> Can someone please sync buildbot? My requestsync is broken. It fixes an RC bug and removes the ubuntu delta
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, just can't you use Launchpad to report bugs?
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, yes, but this is faster, i'll report the bug anyway
<Noskcaj> bug 1215809
<ubottu> bug 1215809 in buildbot (Ubuntu) "Please sync from debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1215809
<OvenWerks> Is anyone able to help the ubuntustudio team get ubuntustudio-menu and ubuntustudio-installer released? They are ready to go... linted, reviewed etc.
 * Laney stabs qt4-x11
<Laney> optimising pngs has taken far longer than the main build by now
<Noskcaj> Logan_, I've uploaded a fix to xfce4-eyes' lintian errors at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/xfce4-eyes-plugin/4.4.2
<Logan_> Noskcaj: I'll take a look.
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Logan_> Noskcaj: Did you do a test build?
<Noskcaj> Logan_, yeah
<Noskcaj> crap, i forgot to build in a chroot as well
<Logan_> Noskcaj: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6019334/
<Logan_> Looks like you need to build-depend on intltool.
 * Noskcaj feels very stupid. All the xfce plugins need intltool
<g0twig> does launchpad accept lintian overrides for PPA packages?
<Noskcaj> g0twig, I assume so. Why?
<g0twig> https://code.launchpad.net/~gotwig/+archive/weekly/+recipebuild/526719
<g0twig> lets see if that works
<g0twig> good night
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-24
<zequence> Ubuntu Studio devs would like assistance in uploading one final package lp:~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings
<zequence> ..before FF
<Laney> zequence: having it in the queue would be nice
<zequence> Laney: Which queue is that?
<zequence> The package already exists in the repos
<zequence> or, repo
<zequence> This is an update for it
<Laney> zequence: the sponsor queue
<Laney> file bug, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<Laney> preferable to having to ask on irc
<OvenWerks> Laney: do we still need to do that now that it has been uploaded?
<Laney> no
<OvenWerks> or is that next time
<OvenWerks> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2013-08-25
<Noskcaj> Logan_, mind if i merge dahdi-tools?
<mfisch> Noskcaj: I'm not sure if this is official policy, but for desktop packages can you please file a bug for your package updates? That way we can track who is working on something already
<mfisch> Noskcaj: it is at least an unofficially recommended policy for desktop according to the guys I've worked with
<mfisch> Noskcaj: we track said work here (http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/ubuntu-desktop.html) and the bug link is helpful
<mfisch> Noskcaj: and after all this I realized I misread the package name you worked on and it's not in desktop, I fail :(
<Noskcaj> thanks for the link mfisch. I didn't know that existed. I'll file a bug when i get time to work on the package.
<Noskcaj> mfisch, dahdi isn't on that list though
<Noskcaj> bzr won't run merge-upstream for me. It keeps crashing at pritine-tar
<micahg> jbicha: are you fixing blender in saucy?
<jbicha> micahg: uh, it may take a while for me to figure out which commits ported to the new libav
<jbicha> I did test-build but I forgot that the build failed :(
<micahg> jbicha: ok, thanks
<jbicha> if you can figure it out faster, you're welcome to fix it yourself; upstream uses svn which isn't as fun
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-18
<dholbach> good morning
<Logan_> Noskcaj: please merge liquidsoap so that the shine transition goes through
<ESphynx> hey guys I'm getting a little worried with the FF just around the corner :|
<ESphynx> I uploaded ecere-sdk 0.44.10 on August 8 to Mentors and notified xnox our usual sponsor but haven't heard back from him yet whether it was going to make it or not? Anything else I can do to ensure this makes it in? http://mentors.debian.net/package/ecere-sdk
<ESphynx> Should I upload this straight to Ubuntu/
<Noskcaj> Logan_, I'll get it sometime tomorrow
<Laney> ESphynx: he might be away for a bit, suggest finding another sponsor in #debian-mentors
<ESphynx> Laney: hmm thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-19
<ESphynx> hey guys, so I was considering uploading a debdiff of ecere-sdk directly to ubuntu and was wondering whether I needed to modify the changelog
<ESphynx> but apparently the changelog in http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/utopic/ecere-sdk  all mentions 'unstable' and has Debian style versions...
<ESphynx> uploaded debdiff: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecere-sdk/+bug/1358572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358572 in ecere-sdk (Ubuntu) "Update to Ecere SDK 0.44.10 (Major milestone, many usability fixes)" [Undecided,New]
<sney> Noskcaj: the "missing" hardening flag is one that was newly added to dpkg-buildflags *after* 2.10.0 was uploaded, by the way.
<sney> so everything is fine.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> ESphynx: if the changelog mentions unstable and has Debian versions then it was synced from Debian; if you want an upload directly to Ubuntu then you need a Ubuntu codename (utopic) in the changelog and a Ubuntu style version
<ESphynx> geser: I was going to do that, but then I noticed the current changelog @ http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/utopic/ecere-sdk all says 'unstable'
<ESphynx> dholbach: thanks for trying out the build... kind of puzzled with this EcereAudio thing :S will look at that today
<dholbach> ok
<ESphynx> so to reupload again should I just modify the new entry in the changelog to say ubuntu-1 ?
<geser> ESphynx: because that's a sync from Debian, not direct upload to Ubuntu
<ESphynx> geser: right, I just didn't know what to do now since it's usually synced form debian, but I'd like it to make the FF...
<geser> ESphynx: if you want to upload to Ubuntu, change the distribution in the changelog to "utopic" and use the Ubuntu versioning scheme (0.44.10-0ubuntu1)
<ESphynx> geser: right, but only on the last entry of the changelog?
<geser> yes
<ESphynx> (new entry)
<ESphynx> OK that's what I was confused about. thanks, will do that for reupload, apparently it's not building :|
<geser> the older versions in the changelog were uploaded to Debian unstable, so this is still correct
<ESphynx> I see
<ESphynx> the thing is I wasn't sure if a potential sponsor would upload to Debian and sync as xnox usually does or upload to Ubuntu only..
<geser> if you want to merge this Ubuntu changelog entry in your Debian changelog is up to you, some DD do it, but it's not necessary
<geser> this probably depends if your Ubuntu sponsor is also a DD
<Xan_do_can> hello everybody
<Xan_do_can> hola saO
<ESphynx> hmm, I'm getting a different error here :S no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 -- what could that mean?
<jtaylor> what version number would a SRU have that updates the version number with the same version available in +1? x-0ubuntu0.1?
<jtaylor> or x-1ubuntu0.1
<jtaylor> with x-1ubuntu1 in +1
<ESphynx> how to set up pbuilder to create something for utopic ?
<ESphynx> Will sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd automatically do that?
<ESphynx> or --distribution utopic ?
<Noskcaj> ESphynx, I like pbuilder-dist. Just run pbuilder-dist utopic amd64 create
<ESphynx> thank you
<ESphynx> Is pbuilder used more than sdist for ubuntu?
<ESphynx> btw the package built on my utopic upgrade system, so trying pbuilder now to see if I get those errors dholbach was getting :S
<ESphynx> OK that really built fine for me, in pbuilder as well...
<ESphynx> could anyone please retry it?
<ESphynx> also do I need to upload a new debdiff just for changing that verstion to -0ubuntu1 or?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-20
<geser> ESphynx: I don't think that debdiff will be used as it's a new upstream version (-> new .orig.tar), I'd attach the .debian.tar.* and add a link where to get the .orig.tar (ideally the same which gets later uploaded to Debian as it would allow to sync again)
<geser> perhaps also add a diff of the debian/ directory for review
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<ESphynx> 'morning
<ESphynx> geser: I did put a link to the whole thing on mentors?
<ESphynx> dholbach: any idea why the build was failing for you? :|
<ESphynx> geser: and http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/e/ecere-sdk/ecere-sdk_0.44.09.9-1.debian.tar.gz --> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/e/ecere-sdk/ecere-sdk_0.44.10-1.debian.tar.xz
<ESphynx> dholbach: Perhaps somehow applying the .debdiff you were missing the .install files?
<dholbach> hi ESphynx
<dholbach> ESphynx, I don't think so - I just applied the diff and it applied cleanly
<dholbach> but I can try again
<dholbach> cp: cannot stat 'debian/tmp/$LIBDIR/ec/libEcereAudio.so.0.44': No such file or directory
<dholbach> ^ this doesn't look like a missing .install file
<dholbach> more like an install file pointing to the wrong place
<dholbach> ESphynx, strangely enough the build succeeded this time - I'll just modify the changelog entry to 1) have -0ubuntu1 as version number, 2) list LP: #1358572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358572 in ecere-sdk (Ubuntu) "Update to Ecere SDK 0.44.10 (Major milestone, many usability fixes)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358572
<dholbach> "Closes: <Debian bugs>" will also not be necessary
<dholbach> uploaded
<ESphynx> dholbach: yeah it always worked for me
<ESphynx> so strange
<ESphynx> awesome dholbach! thank you!
<ESphynx> but why on earth wasn't it working last time?
<dholbach> no idea, sorry
<ESphynx> Nice! ppc64el seems to build fine!
<ESphynx> wonder if arm64 will build too?
<ESphynx> (It seems like it will! this is exciting :) )
<filipsohajek> Hi, i've got a question. If i'm packaging a ruby program, that needs all files in one directory, can i place that directory in /usr/local ?  Thanks
<Zhenech> no
<filipsohajek> So, where i can place that files? Or i'm supposed to change the source code to support FS hirearchy?
<Zhenech> you do not package stuff into /usr/local
<Zhenech> many packages have stuff in /usr/share/<package>
<Zhenech> or does it need all files as in: all the code and all the rest in one dir?
<filipsohajek> Oh, sorry. It was /usr/share .
<filipsohajek> Oh, sorry. It was /usr/local/share .
<Zhenech> make it /usr/share.
<filipsohajek> Sorry, i'm confused. Definitely : /usr/share
<filipsohajek> Thanks, another question. Can i get sponsorship here?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-21
<Unit193> Logan_: Yeah, I won't be able to get a pkg-multimedia dev by tomorrow (or, next few days even), so if you wanted to review+upload a git snapshot from https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/icecast2.git/, great, if not no problem as I already have the package locally.
<Unit193> (As a plus, Ubuntu delta is now gone)
<Logan_> Unit193: make it easy for me to review :P
<Unit193> Logan_: Alright, something like https://sigma.unit193.net/source/icecast2_2.4.0-0ubuntu1.dsc perhaps?
<Logan_> better.
<Unit193> Debdiff?
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-22
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey ESphynx
<Noskcaj> Logan_, I think you can sync vice now. libav10 has been in the repo a while
#ubuntu-motu 2014-08-23
<ESphynx> The 'file list' thing doesn't seem to update properly?
<ESphynx> e.g. http://packages.ubuntu.com/utopic/all/ecere-samples/filelist does not properly reflect the contents of http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/e/ecere-sdk/ecere-samples_0.44.10-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<Logan_> Noskcaj: ah, yes - I'll check if the new upstream has any new features
#ubuntu-motu 2015-08-17
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-08-19
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-08-21
<teward> this may be an odd question but is there a way to override the dh commands that package building runs, so that it doesn't run `make install`?  Or do I just have to remove the 'install' section of the makefile?
<geser> you can override the dh_commands targets in debian/rules
<rbasak> teward: maybe you want an empty override_dh_auto_install target?
<rbasak> Then dh won't run "make install".
#ubuntu-motu 2016-08-23
<Unit193> micahg: You alive out there?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-08-24
<micahg> Unit193: I'm still here, just lots of stuff going on
<Guest37175> help
<Guest37175> ls
#ubuntu-motu 2016-08-25
<xnox> Rhonda, hi, I have questions about packages.ubuntu.com
<xnox> is it possible to somehow view all packages in /main/
<xnox> e.g. something like http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/admin/
<xnox> but http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/main/
<xnox> and then limit by architecture.
<Rhonda> I don't think so, no.
<Rhonda> xnox: I don't think so, no.
<xnox> Rhonda, horum, ok.
<Rhonda> â¦ not that it couldn't get added.  But that would mean I first would have to understand the code.  And that would take time.
<Rhonda> And that would mean I would need the motivation to do that instead of something else that has a higher priority to me.
<xnox> Rhonda, yeah, i get it. I'm not thrilled into diving into that code either =)
<xnox> would have been handy, if there was backdoor secret url to do that already.
<xnox> failing that, i'll have to think of something.
<xnox> but no means don't spend your time on that. it's a bit futile.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-08-28
<Rhonda> darn
<Rhonda> lfaraone, around?
<Rhonda> highvoltage: I somehow disconnected from oftc â¦
<highvoltage> Rhonda: can I relay that?
<Rhonda> -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server irc.oftc.net port 6667
<Rhonda> Not sure what the last message was that got received â¦
<lfaraone> Rhonda: sure
<Rhonda> Oh, wait, off-by-one.  Thought this is #debian-ubuntu.  Anyway, sorry for the noise.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-08-22
<willdeberry> what tool would yall recommend for pulling down latest ubuntu sources, to merge say, into a version of the deb package I am maintaining locally?
<tsimonq2> willdeberry: pull-lp-source PACKAGENAME RELEASE
<tsimonq2> willdeberry: Example: pull-lp-source vc zesty
<tsimonq2> willdeberry: It just has to be the source package, not the binary package from what I remember
<willdeberry> ok kewl
<willdeberry> and that pulls just raw source, no applied patches or anything?
<tsimonq2> Nope, applies the quilt patches
<willdeberry> doesn't applying the quilt patches like that break the build process if I were to build the deb from those sources?
<tsimonq2> Nope.
<willdeberry> so if i am storing in source control, would you recommend keeping the patches applied or undo first? I would assume without the quilt patches applied makes for easier merging
<tsimonq2> Unapplied.
<willdeberry> tsimonq2: question about https://merges.ubuntu.com/p/procinfo/REPORT
<tsimonq2> willdeberry: yeah
<willdeberry> i am trying to resolve that issue and am finding that the changes to Makefile.in are still required to resolve build issues. but what i am being stumped on is, shouln't those changes be in a patch file and not to the Makefile.in directly?
<willdeberry> was originally addressed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/procinfo/+bug/771106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771106 in procinfo (Ubuntu Oneiric) "procinfo version 1:2.0.304-1 failed to build on amd64 with GCC-4.6/oneiric" [High,Fix released]
<tsimonq2> What's the output of debian/source/format?
<tsimonq2> If it's anything but "3.0 (quilt)" then no
<willdeberry> 3.0 quilt
<tsimonq2> But if it's that, then yeah...
<tsimonq2> hmmm
<willdeberry> reason i bring this up is that when i run merge-buildpackage, it complains about local changes
<tsimonq2> Yeah, that's interesting...
<willdeberry> and i've always been under the impression that you don't touch anything outside the debian directory for quilt packages
<tsimonq2> huh
 * tsimonq2 gets the package locally instead of speculating :P
<willdeberry> lol
<Unit193> dpkg-source: info: upstream files that have been modified:  procinfo-2.0.304/Makefile.in
<willdeberry> i cam migrate the change to upstream to be a proper quily patch, just wanting to make sure i am not missing somethign
<Unit193> No source/format, so yeah.
<tsimonq2> Ahhhhhh ok ic
<Unit193> (Implied 1.0)
<tsimonq2> We followed Debian by having a non-quilt source
<tsimonq2> Debian didn't have changes but we did
<tsimonq2> So when we apply Debian's change to quilt, we need to put our changes in a patch
<tsimonq2> willdeberry: If that makes sense?
<willdeberry> so basically move the changes to a patch file and add the new patch to the series file right?
<tsimonq2> Yep.
<willdeberry> kewl, easy enough
<willdeberry> ok, so i am stumped at fixing the merge for procinfo. no matter if i just adjust debian's previous patch file or add a new one and add to series file, i get errors about local changes: https://pastebin.com/spFyzpZf
<willdeberry> i can fix the MoM conflict and just use the debian side and everything works fine with i run merge-buildpackage
<teward> willdeberry: which package/patch/bug?
<teward> *grabs MoM*
<Unit193> willdeberry: Does the patch match that of the tmpfile?  It could also be that the patch is applied, it doesn't think so, thus changes.
<teward> Unit193: what's the default package type, native or quilt?
<teward> because I didn't see a quilt format directive in the package
<Unit193> teward: 1.0
<teward> mmm
<Unit193> Ubuntu's 1.0 is slightly different than Debian's, though both should actually be fine with local changes..
<teward> Unit193: i have a quilt patch that 'works' - there's no quilt patches in this package by default, so that's my guess as why it's exploding
<teward> Unit193: i've always been told to use quilt :P
<Unit193> teward: Well yes, of course.  3.0 (quilt) is what you *should* be using.
<teward> how hard is it to convert, just create a quilt patch, and go?
<teward> i don't see a format file so hence my asking
<willdeberry> teward: sry, was grabbing dinner. this is for procinfo
<willdeberry> and after i run grab-merge, i do see a debian/source/format with 3.0 (quilt)
<willdeberry> i assume that is Ubuntu delta since it doesn't seem to be in the debian source
<willdeberry> Unit193: the tmpfile is actually the opposite of the quilt patch
<Unit193> willdeberry: Right, so patch -p1 -R -i /tmp/proc*  and try to build, you'll see the patch you have in the output as 'applying foo.patch'.
<Unit193> The paste you gave doesn't contain applying the patch, as you see.
<Unit193> So, 1. The state is wrong and it thinks the patch is applied when it isn't.  2. d/p/series doesn't contain the patch.
<willdeberry> yea i don't see anything about patches in the working merge-buildpackage too
<willdeberry> even though it says it is using quilt format
<willdeberry> working: https://pastebin.com/XxZGQzh8
<willdeberry> i don't get it :/
<Unit193> `sudo`?
<willdeberry> blame Windows bash
<willdeberry> there is no fakeroot
<willdeberry> too lazy to spin up VM xD
<Unit193> Nice.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-08-23
<willdeberry> almost feels like to me that the quilt process with this package is jacked
<Unit193> Can you tar it?  I'll take a look.
<willdeberry> Unit193: https://storage.sudoservers.com/index.php/s/C7nmAWb6L4jnknP
<willdeberry> that currently builds using merge-buildpackage but doesn't carry forth the ubuntu delta from previous release
<Unit193> patch -R -p1 -i debian/patches/01_add-GCC-hardening.patch and you get: http://paste.openstack.org/show/uY8iTCqdkgL4WbHWHFZA/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/0vmGthMUKYfS6IIUfBUd/
<Unit193> If you wanted a log from a passing test: http://paste.openstack.org/show/QZzPzi0FRpkI3guThtlR/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/KT8F2lHispvb6SKz6e63
<Unit193> willdeberry: I should likely ping you so you see this. :P
<willdeberry> i see it, just processing and recreating along side :)
<willdeberry> so now i just need to add another quilt patch and all should be fine now
<Unit193> I cheated by disabling --as-needed to fix that ftbfs.
<willdeberry> so then, is it something I or grab-merge is doing that would require to run the reverse patch command to make this work?
<Unit193> It's already applied the patch, thus it doesn't add and remove it.
<willdeberry> woot, finally got the debdiff that I was aiming for!
<willdeberry> thanks Unit193
<Unit193> Sure thing!
<willdeberry> finally got that one done :D
<Unit193> Fantastic!
<Unit193> Rhonda: You there?
<Rhonda> Unit193: sort of
#ubuntu-motu 2017-08-24
<fossfreedom> hi all - I've got some Ubuntu Budgie packages currently hanging out on the sponsor queue for a few days now.  Anybody around who can look an helpout with these please?
 * tsimonq2 hunts down usual sponsor
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom: Ping, just bug 1711912 and bug 1711928?
<ubottu> bug 1711912 in budgie-welcome (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie: v0.5.1 release of budgie-welcome" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711912
<ubottu> bug 1711928 in budgie-indicator-applet (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie: v0.4 release of budgie-indicator-applet" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711928
<fossfreedom> bug 1711227 as well
<ubottu> bug 1711227 in budgie-desktop-environment (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie: v0.8.2 release of budgie-desktop-environment" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1711227
<fossfreedom> late night?
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom: Terrible sleep schedule, I'm super awake :P
<fossfreedom> :)
<fossfreedom> night owl
<acheronuk> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much redbull and coffee I suspect
<tsimonq2> acheronuk: Yep
<tsimonq2> lol
<Unit193> acheronuk: Time for probation.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-08-27
<fossfreedom> hi - the date for beta 1 for community flavours is almost on us.  There are a couple of critical Ubuntu Budgie packages we would like reviewed and incorporated for beta 1 - please can these be reviewed as soon as possible?  TIA  bug 1713071  and bug 1713210
<ubottu> bug 1713071 in budgie-desktop-environment (Ubuntu) "Budgie Desktop session interferes with gnome session" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713071
<ubottu> bug 1713210 in budgie-welcome (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie: bug fix release 0.5.2 of budgie-welcome" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713210
<tsimonq2> fossfreedom: asking my sponsor
<tsimonq2> FWIW, the debdiffs lgtm, if someone else is faster, please go ahead and upload ^^^^^^
<fossfreedom> tsimonq2, cheers for reviewing our packages. I know its a bad day to ask (sunday) ... but is there anyone around who can confirm and upload please?  TIA  bug 1713071  and bug 1713210
<ubottu> bug 1713071 in budgie-desktop-environment (Ubuntu) "Budgie Desktop session interferes with gnome session" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713071
<ubottu> bug 1713210 in budgie-welcome (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Budgie: bug fix release 0.5.2 of budgie-welcome" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713210
<Unit193> Finding a MOTU on a weekend is at least easier than core dev, and muuuch easier than Archive Admin. ;)
<fossfreedom> :)
<tsimonq2> Unit193: True ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-08-22
<karstensrage> how do you handle creating a symlink pointing to the thing youre installing
<karstensrage> in lib/arch/there are a bunch of libraries that have -2.23.so and symlinks that are .so.2
#ubuntu-motu 2018-08-23
<abeato> hey, I have this request for a package split: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1788601 - I need reviews from MOTUs for these changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788601 in Ubuntu "It should be possible to use someï¿¼ initramfs-tools-ubuntu-core scripts in classic systems" [Undecided,In progress]
<ogra> abeato, i think since you are targeting main MOTU reviews wont work here
<abeato> ogra, so who should be it? just archive admins?
<ogra> abeato, let me finish lunch and i'll upload it to the NEW queue ... then you need to ping an archive admin for review
<abeato> ogra, alright, thanks!
#ubuntu-motu 2018-08-25
<GunChleoc> Hi all
<GunChleoc> I have a package in Ubuntu Universe that's not included in the Software Center - what do I need to do?
<Unit193> The software center is pretty limited, it only works with appstream data as far as I know.
<pipedream> I'm not sure whether this is used in ubuntu https://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/temp/AppData_WhitePaper.pdf
<pipedream> oh wait wrong
<GunChleoc> We do have an appdata.xml in the package. I have opened a bug now, let's see what happens https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1789023
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789023 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Widelands package from Universe is not in the Software Center" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-motu 2020-08-20
<plugwash> Where can I find information on why a package is not migrating from proposed to release?
<RikMills> plugwash: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<ginggs> plugwash: name that package
<plugwash> fpc, I wanted to confirm if the reasons it wasn't migrating from released to proposed were the same as the reason it wasn't migrating to testing in Debian or whether there were additional issues.
<plugwash> *from proposed to release
<RikMills> autopkgtest failures by the looks of it
<plugwash> Yeah, i'm already in the process of dealing with the ones in fpc itself, the one in diffoscope should be fixed in the latest version of diffoscope which then leads to the question of why diffoscope isn't migrating.
<RikMills> diffoscope seems to be failing tests for the rdep 'reprotest'
 * ginggs retries reprotest tests
<Pici> 21
 * plugwash has just uploaded fpc to sid
<ginggs> so we got a green light on reprotest/ppc64el
<ginggs> i'm retrying amd64 and s390x with the new setuptools
<plugwash> BTW do the logs have a timestamp in them anywhere or only a datestamp?
<ginggs> plugwash: which logs?  where are you looking?
<plugwash> the autopkgtest logs linked from the excuses page
<ginggs> e.g. https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-groovy/groovy/amd64/r/reprotest/20200814_191409_0e0cd@/log.gz
<ginggs> i see: autopkgtest [19:09:51]: starting date: 2020-08-14
<ginggs> if you click on the architecture you see a list with dates and times
<plugwash> ahh the time is before the date
<ginggs> green lights on reprotest/amd64 and /s390x, diffoscope should migrate shortly
<ginggs> plugwash: see query
#ubuntu-motu 2020-08-21
<sigv> what is a reasonable expectation regarding review timeframe for merge sponsorship request? the specific bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debmirror/+bug/1892110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892110 in debmirror (Ubuntu) "Please merge debmirror 2.33 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<sigv> interested in contributing to get things moving, but the process doesn't seem fully clear, especially looking at the apparent old tail of sponsorship requests https://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
