#launchpad-meeting 2007-01-17
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad-meeting.log
<ddaa> SteveA: ping
<ddaa> thumper: ping
<ddaa> Let's talk here
<thumper> here
<ddaa> so I won't mispresent SteveA
<SteveA> hi
<ddaa> Thumper said:
<ddaa> (23:19:04) thumper: I don't feel a particularly desperate desire to be part of it if it's not necessary
<ddaa> My notes about this sprint say
<ddaa> Mention to poolie & tim:
<ddaa> * Sprint 2 weeks .au in feb. or mar.
<thumper> I also said:
<thumper> [11:17]  <thumper> the chance of me getting over there is remote to minimal due to my wife killing me
<thumper> [11:17]  <thumper> perhaps we could get jml over here
<thumper> that is if I'm needed
<ddaa> jml... Jonathan?
<thumper> yep
<ddaa> ha right
<thumper> jml is his nick on freenode
<ddaa> So, I said .au or .nz makes no difference for me.
<SteveA> kiko and I are thinking about planning sprints for various launchpad teams
<thumper> just to let you know, I have to head off in about 15 min
<SteveA> the first question is whether there are things to achieve at a team in-person meeting
<ddaa> Okay let's be quick just to sync with thumper
<SteveA> then, to decide when, where and who
<SteveA> if a meeting will be valuable, then getting ddaa down under is possible, and ddaa said he can be easily available for a 2 week trip
<SteveA> so, that's something to consider
<SteveA> but, I'm not saying that I favour it for its own sake
<thumper> fair enough
<ddaa> thumper: the other thing I wanted to tell you about
<SteveA> it may be that there's enough back-end improving work for ddaa to do that a trip and meeting isn't useful for a while
<ddaa> I mentioned that an increasing part of my import herding work is triaging import requests. As the system becomes more popular, more vcs details are entered by users who do not understand the implications and the launchpad best practices.
<ddaa> So SteveA suggested that I come to Amsterdam next week, in particular to have some face time with matthewrevell to write documentation at which we can point users when an import request cannot go forward without reformulating it.
<thumper> SteveA: there is the desire to get ddaa to spread the import knowledge more
<thumper> ddaa: sounds like a very good idea to get more available docs
<SteveA> which import knowledge in particular?
<SteveA> we'll have a launchpad ops-admin person soon, who should learn how to roll out the importd stuff, and monitor it
<SteveA> and understand how it does error reporting
<thumper> what runs where and when, and how do fix things when things go wrong
<thumper> SteveA: I didn't know about the launchpad-ops person
<SteveA> so, at the level of services running correctly, that's something for the ops person to learn
<thumper> they should understand it all
<SteveA> he'll be working for james troup
<thumper> SteveA: agreeed
<ddaa> SteveA: regarding my personal constraints, I'm available starting next monday morning.
<SteveA> as far as higher level stuff, to do with launchpad, database data, or VCS stuff going wrong
<SteveA> that's something where we'll want to have damn good error reporting coming out from the importd systems
<SteveA> so, I don't think it's important for jml to learn about detail of how the imports system works
* ddaa dreams of a world were a list classified import failures is maintained automatically.
<SteveA> thumper: I spoke to elmo today and we talked about your access to vostok, which will be granted soon
<SteveA> good dream
<thumper> SteveA: good
<SteveA> I think it will be helpful for you to help ddaa work out good ways to make that dream come true
<SteveA> that is, I think the access to vostok will help you understand the systems
<SteveA> so you can assist in that
<thumper> ok
<SteveA> ultimately, you and ddaa should not need to use the systems much directly
<SteveA> as that'll become the ops person's job
<thumper> I agree with that
<SteveA> there will actually be 2 ops people
<SteveA> so there will be holiday cover
<SteveA> one person primarily for landscape, one primarily for launchpad
<SteveA> but being able to cover for each other
<thumper> sounds like a damn fine idea
<SteveA> takes some load of stub too
<thumper> handholding server processes is not my idea of fun
* ddaa feels slightly intimitated at the idea of no longer working in a cosy start up, but in a large company with plenty of q&a, ops, PR, and business people.
<SteveA> so, ddaa and I were talking about getting decent error handling and error reporting into the systems
<SteveA> as they currently are
<SteveA> without doing a lot of refactoring first
<thumper> ddaa: at least it is growing organically, and you're not being dumped in it
<SteveA> and as a matter of urgency
<SteveA> ddaa said he'd look at what can be done simply
<ddaa> thumper: I'm sure it's an interesting thing to watch and make happen.
<SteveA> it's like a rollercoaster on the moon
<SteveA> without seat restraints
<SteveA> powered by cheese
<ddaa> thumper: SteveA drove a nail home about making things even more messy if necessary as long as we get error reporting.
<thumper> ddaa: fair enough, I'm happy with that
<thumper> as long as it doesn't stay messy for ever
<SteveA> ddaa: you can still type one-handed, right?
<ddaa> that's why I am reluctant. Anything that do not make messiness monotonously decreasing smells danger to me.
<SteveA> there's messiness and there's functioning correctly
<SteveA> they way I see it is we need to know how much we're functioning correctly
<thumper> I don't think that there would be a big increase in mess
<SteveA> so that when we improve the messiness
<thumper> just not a decrease
<thumper> I'm ok with that
<SteveA> we know we're not doing so at the expense of QOS
<ddaa> SteveA: don't worry, I'm sold to the idea of getting a better hold on how the thing work.
<thumper> guys, I've gotta go
<ddaa> If only to make the boss feel less anxious about it.
<SteveA> cool, catch you later
<ddaa> thumper: cya, the two sprint things are what I wanted to ping you about.
<SteveA> thanks for delivering the summary of our conversation ddaa
<ddaa> SteveA: thanks for fixing my inaccuracies
#launchpad-meeting 2007-01-18
<ddaa> So... regarding the .nl thing
<matthewrevell> hi
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> so, ddaa, when can you arrive in .nl?
<SteveA> you were going to look into that
<ddaa> Tue Jan. 30th evening
<ddaa> Going home Fri night or Sat is okay
<matthewrevell> ddaa: Great, so we'll have all of 31st.
<matthewrevell> ddaa: Are you in Hotel Aarborg?
<ddaa> Accomodation not yet sorted out.
<ddaa> neither are train tickets
<ddaa> But the latter is easy
<matthewrevell> yeah
<matthewrevell> Aarborg is where I'm staying. Looks decent and is close to the venue
<ddaa> Yeah, why not...
<ddaa> matthewrevell: did you do anything special? I just got used to SteveA taking care of small details like finding me a bed to sleep in :)
<SteveA> sorry, got distracted by kiko
<matthewrevell> ddaa: steve recommended Aarborg and I booked it through Expedia.co.uk.
<ddaa> so my concern usually stops at dragging my ass there
<SteveA> so, matthewrevell, you're there tue +  wed
<SteveA> ddaa: you're proposing to come tuesday night, work with matthew wed. 
<matthewrevell> Yeah, arrive at Schiphol around 9am Tues and leave 20:00 Weds
<SteveA> how about matthewrevell, you stay an extra day?
<SteveA> does that work?
<ddaa> Mh... I could come earlier Tuesday, too.
<matthewrevell> That would be fine, yeah. I'll look into flights
<SteveA> ddaa: how much earlier?
<ddaa> In the afternoon.
<SteveA> be specific
<SteveA> arriving at the station at 4pm is different than 1pm
<SteveA> in terms of getting stuff usefully done
<ddaa> Do not have anything particalr to do on Tuesday. So it's limited by wake-up time and train schedules.
<ddaa> So... 1pm would be possible
<SteveA> that's good
<SteveA> earlier the better
<SteveA> making best use of everyone's time together
<SteveA> so, matthewrevell, see if you can stay one further day
<matthewrevell> It's roughly an extra 50 Euros for me to move the flight to 20:00 of 1st Feb.
<SteveA> fine
<matthewrevell> Cool. I'll sort that out.
<SteveA> check with the hotel, phone them directly
<SteveA> ddaa: make a reservation at the hotel right now, they book up fast
<SteveA> so, both of you leave thursday eve?
<matthewrevell> Yeah, I'll be leaving on the 20:00 flight from Schiphol. I can stay till Friday if necessary.
<ddaa> could stay longer
<SteveA> sure
<SteveA> I'm fine with you both leaving friday evening
<SteveA> so, is that agreed?
<matthewrevell> I'll just check flights for Friday
* ddaa wonders if we really have a use for four days
<ddaa> it started as one wednesday, and now we're talking tue a.m. to fri night.
<SteveA> I think it'll be good to work together
<SteveA> it won't be just on the docs
<SteveA> I expect you to work on the other back-end imports stuff
<SteveA> and you'll be able to bounce things off my and lifeless
<matthewrevell> Okay, so before I book the flight, are we agreed on Friday?
<ddaa> Sure, will be there on friday.
<SteveA> how much is it per night at the aalborg?
<SteveA> 50 EUR or something?
<matthewrevell> Roughly that
<matthewrevell> SteveA: But it cost me 49
<SteveA> ok.  if they want much more than that, let me know
<ddaa> SteveA: if you do not mind, I'll prefer arriving on Tue. evening.
<SteveA> ddaa: why is that?
<SteveA> what will you do tuesday during the day?
<ddaa> usual work
<ddaa> nothing specific, I just don't enjoy rushing for trains in the morning, thus the "if you don't mind".
<SteveA> If you're not getting up early to catch the train, will you get up early to work?
<SteveA> and if you don't ,then I don't really see any benefit at all
<ddaa> See your point.
<SteveA> get an early train, you can nap and work disconnected on the train
<matthewrevell> SteveA: It's going to be 97 for the extra two nights for me. Sound okay?
<SteveA> and then we'll be able to get stuff done tuesday afternoon
<SteveA> matthewrevell: fine
<ddaa> okay to tue. am to fri night
<SteveA> matthewrevell: are you on the phone with them?
<ddaa> will book and stuff
<SteveA> matthewrevell: or booking online?
<matthewrevell> No, Expedia. When I rang them last week, the price was more expensive through them directly
<SteveA> ok
<ddaa> SteveA: so the town in Amsterdam, right? Not Rotterdam.
<matthewrevell_> SteveA: All booked
<SteveA> Amsterdam
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> ok, great
<SteveA> and I checked it out with cvd too
<SteveA> so we're all good
<ddaa> SteveA: earliest I can land in amsterdam CS is 14:06
<ddaa> SteveA: it's "Hotel Aalborg", not Aarborg, right?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> on ceintuurbaan or sarphatipark
<SteveA> same road, different names for part of it
<ddaa> paying right now
<SteveA> matthewrevell_: I have some comments on CreatingYourLaunchpadAccount
<SteveA> mention that you might have an account already if you used shipit
<SteveA> you also need an account for editing certain wikis like the ubuntu wiki
<SteveA> matthewrevell_: ^^^^
<matthewrevell_> SteveA: Yes, sorry for the delay in replying. Thanks for that. I'll amend it accordingly.
<SteveA> rest of it looks good
#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-14
<Odd_Bloke> Hai guyz, what happens in dis channel
#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-15
<barry> hello everyone and welcome to this week's asiapac launchpad reviewers meeting
<barry> who's here today?
<jamesh> I'm here
<barry> thumper: ping?
<barry> wow, okay, i guess we can make this short :)
<thumper> here
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry>    * Tool update
<thumper> jml is heading over to spiv's
<barry> wife's got dinner ready so we don't need to wait :)
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry> i won't be able to make this time for the next 2 weeks (see email to ml), but please do carry on until i'm back
<thumper> I'm happy with the time change requested in email
<barry> thumper: excellent
<barry> thumper: maybe you can lead the next 2 meetings @ whatever time you guys want?
<thumper> barry: ok
<barry> thumper: and i'll join back at 0300tuesday on 05-feb
<barry> thumper: thanks!
<barry>  * Action items
<barry> from last time at ameu:  * intellectronica to work on a cover letter template
<barry> i think that's still outstanding, but low priority
<barry> any previous action items that you guys can think of?
<barry> 5..4..3..2..1
<jamesh> not that I recall -- the last meeting was fairly low-key
<barry> jamesh: cool, thanks
<barry>  * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings
<barry> jamesh: is the proposed time good with you?  0300 tuesdays?
<barry> 0300 utc tuesdays
<jamesh> barry: sure.  That's midday rather than 9am
<jamesh> (not that 9am is too bad :)
<barry> great.  i think the only person who it's worse for is jtv, but i don't know how often he attends the asiapac meetings
<barry> jamesh: :)
<barry> if one of you gets a chance, could you just ping jml and spiv and make sure they're cool with it?  and let me know?
<thumper> sure
<barry> thumper: thanks
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry> looks like 5 branches in needs-review over sla
<barry> but the general queue looks good (i assigned 2 at the end of my shift today)
<barry> jamesh: what's up with adeuring's branch?  it's huge
<jamesh> barry: I think it is missing a Depends: ...-step1
<barry> so not as bad as it looks? ;)
<jamesh> I'll try adding that
<barry> i'll try to ping the other guys about the other branches and see where we are
 * thumper nods
<barry> any thoughts from you guys on the current queue?
<thumper> mpt's branch
<thumper> why red?
 * Rinchen laughs "It's huge".   "I remember when 36,764 lines was huge"
<barry> Rinchen: wait until 200 lines is huge :)
<thumper> 36kloc is huge
<barry> 36klocs is EVIL
<jamesh> it is smaller than the soyuz merge ...
<barry> thumper: perhaps it's a typo in the url
<jamesh> I think that was around 60k
 * Rinchen laughs. James read Rinchen's thoughts.
<barry> just wait 'til the storm branch :)
<barry> anyway...
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> i sent a message to the lp list calling for new reviewers.  i haven't gotten any responses yet <sniff>
<thumper> maybe they all feel too busy already
 * Rinchen wonders if it's time to start Gavin and Graham's review training.
<barry> thumper: why should that stop anybody? :)
<thumper> Gavin who?
<thumper> sorry
<thumper> brain freeze
<barry> Rinchen: gmb is currently being mentored, but he's probably ready for graduation soon i'd think
<barry> allenap, yes definitely
 * thumper thinks mainly in nicks
<Rinchen> barry, oh thanks. I don't have him reporting hours. I'll fix the template!
<barry> Rinchen: maybe you can make some, er, inquiries and i'll do the same
 * barry is no longer mentoring anyone
<barry> so really it's just gmb and jtv being mentored right now
<Rinchen> barry, yes, I'll chat with Bjorn on Thursday. Another reviewer on bugs would be good so they can achieve the state foundations is in
<barry> Rinchen: great, thanks!
<barry> anything else on this topic?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry>    * Tool update
<barry> i think there's not much progress on this until mwh settles into his new environs
<barry> so really, that's all i've got today.  anything from you guys?
<thumper> no
<barry> okay then!  i'm going to get some dinner
<barry> MEETING ENDS
<barry> thanks guys.  talk to you later
<Rinchen> hello MootBot :-)
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] No Topics!
<Rinchen> [IDEA] No Ideas outside of meeting
<Rinchen> [ACTION] No actions outside of meeting
<Rinchen> [LINK] No link outside of meeting
<Rinchen> [AGREED] No Agreed outside of meeting
<Rinchen> [VOTE] No Votes!
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:39. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Inital Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Inital Testing
<Rinchen> [IDEA] Check that its working
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Check that its working
<Rinchen> [ACTION] Run the test script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Run the test script
<Rinchen> [LINK] http://www.google.com/
<Rinchen> [LINK] wiki:ScribesTeam
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.google.com/
<Rinchen> http://www.google.com
<Rinchen> blah blah blah http://www.google.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  wiki:ScribesTeam
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Testing!
<Rinchen> [VOTE] Does voting work?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.google.com
<Rinchen> +1
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Testing!
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Should end vote and change
<Rinchen> #endvote
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Does voting work?.
<Rinchen> [VOTE] Can we restart?
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<Rinchen> #endvote
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Change topic after voting
<Rinchen> [VOTE] Test Endmeeting
<MootBot> +1 received from Rinchen. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<Rinchen> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 1
<Seeker`> dont flood the bot quite so much :P
<MootBot> New Topic:  Should end vote and change
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Can we restart?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
<MootBot> New Topic:  Change topic after voting
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Test Endmeeting.
<Seeker`> I dont have access to the server to get it to rejoin if it get kicked
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<Rinchen> Seeker`,  :-)  It's working perfectly I have to admit
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 0
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:39.
<Rinchen> sweet!
<Rinchen> the result is great
<Rinchen> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<Seeker`> :)
#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-16
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<gmb> Nice.
<intellectronica> heh
<salgado> look at that
<barry> hi everyone and welcome to this week's am/eu reviewers meeting
<barry> welcome mootbot (for summarizing these meetings)
<barry> Rinchen: thanks for telling me about that!
<barry> so, who's here today?
<flacoste> me
<intellectronica> me
<bac> me
<jtv> me
<sinzu1> me
<gmb> me
<BjornT> me
<sinzui> me me me
<salgado> me
<barry> danilos: ping
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>    * danilo mentored by intellectronica
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry>    * Tool update
<danilos> me
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Next meeting
<barry> week += 1.  anyone know they will not be here?
<BjornT> i won't be there
<barry> BjornT: cool, thanks
<flacoste> hey danilo!
<statik> me
<flacoste> welcome aboard!
<danilos> hi flacoste
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Action items
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Action items
<danilos> thanks
<barry> i did edit a bunch of wiki pages to update some things based on our new process.  i'm sorry i don't remember which pages :/
<barry> === Outstanding Actions ===
<barry>  * intellectronica to work on a cover letter template
<intellectronica> not done, but as we said last week it will anyway probably wait until mwh is back
<barry> intellectronica: right, thanks
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Barry's participation in Asia``Pac meetings
<barry> so i chaired the asiapac meeting this week, and i think that's going to work out well
<barry> i'm going to have to change the time after the florida sprint, but i think it will work out better for those folks anyway
 * danilos takes a note to go through all the reviewers wiki pages to learn the important bits
<barry> so not much else to say, except that i think we'll have better decision making between the two teams
<barry> any thoughts?
<barry> or questions?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Queue status
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Queue status
<barry> the queue doesn't really look too bad.  4 branches in needs-review over the sla
<barry> jtv: any word on stub's branch?
<jtv> barry: that's going to take a while.  It wasn't urgent.
<jtv> I know, I know, we all _want_ it, but...
<jtv> Rushing this one might be something we'd regret.
<flacoste> jtv: can you nudge jamesh about curtis' branch that you reviewed?
<jtv> flacoste: already had
<barry> jtv: no worries, thanks for the status
<flacoste> then nudge harder :-)
<jtv> flacoste: ooh er missus
<sinzui> jtv: please push him if he does not nudge
<jtv> This is getting needlessly violent
<jtv> nudge, budge, BOOM
<barry> just don't poke him with a pointed stick
<barry> btw, i am totally psyched that the general queue is clear.  i think this means we've fairly successfully cleared our backlog and can get back to on-calls handling most branches
<barry> great job everyone!
<barry> any other thoughts or comments on the queue status?
<intellectronica> ehm
<sinzui> I think we have some delinquencies still
<intellectronica> i started the day with a branch on my queue which wasn't, in fact finished
<sinzui> We have some old branches assigned to reviewer.
<intellectronica> not so terrible, but we could maybe think of a way to avoid this, in the future
<barry> intellectronica: you mean you started to review it but couldn't finish it, or didn't get to it at all?
<bac> intellectronica: i dropped that on you at the end of the day yesterday when i finished on-call.  was that not correct?
<barry> sinzui: you mean the 4 branches in needs-review that are old?
<intellectronica> i started reviewing it, and when i finished the reviewee told me that actually the branch wasn't finished
<sinzui> I mean that looking at jamesh's page, I see many old branches in needs-review
<barry> bac: yes, that's correct.  remember a reviewer can always put it back on the rejected queue
<intellectronica> bac: it was, but because it missed the on call review yesterday, gavin thought the he can go on working on that branch
<barry> intellectronica: oh, that's bad.
<bac> intellectronica:  oh...
<intellectronica> so maybe we should find a way to get around that. an honest mistake, after all...
<gmb> Well, isn't it as much an education issue as anything else.
<barry> intellectronica: was the branch big?
<intellectronica> gmb: education doesn't work. i mean, look at me :)
<gmb> I mean, we know that we pass branches on to the next on-call guy but have we actually told the other developers?
<gmb> :)
<intellectronica> barry: no, it wasn't terribly big.
<bac> i have gotten several comments about "i don't understand this on-call process".  so perhaps some general education is needed.
<barry> i feel fairly strongly that we shouldn't pass on branches that are in the middle of a review.  if you're on-call and accept a branch, you're committing to finishing the review.  but it's okay if near the end of your shift you don't take another branch because it's bigger than you'll have time for
<intellectronica> maybe if instead of putting it on the next on-caller's queue we put it in the general queue, there's a better chance the submitter will go and check?
<barry> [ACTION] barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will communicate the on-call process to launchpad developers
<bac> the branch in question was never given to me as the on-call reviewer.  it went directly to the general queue and i then assigned it, per our agreement last week.
<salgado> maybe it went to the general queue by mistake?
<intellectronica> bac: oh, in that case, it's simply a mistake the submitter did. and that can always happen
<bac> intellectronica: yes, that is the case.
<barry> intellectronica: so the problem was that a dev had put a branch on the general queue but continued to work on it?
<intellectronica> barry: yes, but i think the reason he did that was because he was confused about the on-call review process
<intellectronica> but that's just my guess, i'm not sure if that's really what happened. mistakes do happen regardless of process we use
<barry> yep, they do
<intellectronica> one thing we did in the past is the "in progress" section, but that's _more_ wiki editing, which nobody likes
<barry> intellectronica: yep.  <obdesire>kill PendingReviews</obdesire>
<barry> okay, i'll send a message to the list and we'll keep an eye on things
<barry> any other queue or on-call issues?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Mentoring update
<barry>    * danilo mentored by intellectronica
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Mentoring update
<danilos> hi all, as said, I'll be mentored by intellectronica, and I was thinking on starting with on-call reviewing next week (so I've got time to read up on all the review related stuff); unfortunately, intellectronica might be busy next week, so any other EU-timezone mentor for the first session would be welcome :)
<barry> danilos: welcome!  really glad to have you on-board
<danilos> if no mentor comes up, I'll probably take a general queue item and process it by email with intellectronica
<danilos> barry: thanks
<gmb> I think I'm the only other EU on-caller atm, but I'm still a mentee.
<intellectronica> on that note: please don't put anything on my queue - i won't be able to do both mentoring and independent reviews
<intellectronica> (i'll put a /!\ in the wiki too)
<flacoste> intellectronica: you should add a warning to your queue
<danilos> any suggestions on how to proceed are more than welcome
<flacoste> good
<flacoste> BjornT: is a EU reviewer
<danilos> intellectronica: thanks again for agreeing to be my mentor
<flacoste> but he doesn't do on-call
<barry> danilos: you might want to chat with gmb to see how his on-call is working with his mentor
<intellectronica> and he's also busy
<flacoste> so the number of reviews for an on-call might be too much
<danilos> barry: sure, will do, thanks for the poitner
<BjornT> flacoste: and in addition, i'll be in london for most of next week, so i won't be much help.
<flacoste> i guess this means no on-call for danilos next week
<barry> danilos: i'd say just do a few regular reviews one day next week so you'd be only semi-on-call (i.e. doing reviews, but not bothering with #launchpad-reviews)
<danilos> yeah, I guess so
<danilos> barry: agreed
<flacoste> barry: on-call will need to assign him some reviews then
<barry> flacoste: your fingers are faster than mine :)
 * sinzui will give danilos all cprov's branches to review
<barry> yep, if you're clearing out the queue at the end of your shift, remember danilos :)
<gmb> sinzui: Harsh.
<danilos> sinzui: yay, toss me all the easy ones :)
<barry> sinzui: don't hurt him though, we want him to stick around :)
<flacoste> sinzui: that's baptism by fire!
<barry> that /is/ our hazing ritual after all!
<gmb> danilos: cprov branch and easy are antithetical.
<danilos> ok, sounds good, I'll be there
<barry> it's like the reason you have interns.  someone's gotta do all the work
<danilos> gmb: I know that much about soyuz ;)
<flacoste> gmb, sinzui: don't blame cprov, blame soyuz
<gmb> Sounds like a t-shirt line.
<barry> <kirk voice>soooyyy  uuuuuuzzzzzz!</kirk voice>
<sinzui> flacoste: I'm not blaming cprov...he is just the messager
<barry> btw, has anybody else been approach by a dev looking for a mentor?
 * barry is actually surprised more devs haven't come forward
<jtv> Nobody covets the power of a Reviewer?
<barry> jtv: they don't know what they're missing
<barry> [ACTION] barry will contact the devs who previously expressed interest
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will contact the devs who previously expressed interest
<jtv> barry: they do.  They're under the Reviewer's heel.
<danilos> yeah, I am here for the weekly chats about pr0n
<barry> danilos: i haven't gotten to that item yet
<barry> okay, moving on...
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Review process changes
<barry>    * Tool update
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Review process changes
<danilos> ugh, a beginners mistake, jumping the gun
<sinzui> danilos: you will get to review my XXX branch when it is ready.
 * flacoste finds it interesting that danilos mention pr0n just after jtv mentions "under... heel"
<barry> i think there's not much to say about the tools.  bzr review-submit rocks and mwh is still away
<gmb> barry: I'm going to work on the web-side next week.
<gmb> Assuming nothing else gets in my way.
<flacoste> promises, promises, promises
<flacoste> just do it ;-)
<gmb> flacoste: kiko's already getting all excited, so I've got to follow through at some point.
<barry> gmb: well, week 4 == free hacking time :)
<danilos> sinzui: thanks (though, as flacoste just said on another topic: "promises, promises" :)
<gmb> :)
<sinzui> danilos: I really do have an XXX branch.
<barry> boy, you /all/ are jumping the gun.  i really don't know what to say about that, but you can use your own imagination
<barry> anything else on the tools or process?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<sinzui> I was think about checking make lint
<sinzui> before review-submit actually submits
<barry> sinzui: elaborate?
<sinzui> the command checks that the branch is committed and pushed, but not that lint is clean
<barry> sinzui: we can't prevent submission though because we still have too many false positives
<bac> perhaps a --force switch to override lint false positives and submit anyway
<barry> but it would be good to warn the users
<sinzui> barry: fair enough
<bigjools> +1 to sinzui's suggestion, I always forget to run it
<barry> bac: i think that's not a bad idea.  i've had a number of devs respond that they forgot to run it
<bac> be sure it runs before i'm asked to write a cover letter, though!
<sinzui> My review script pulls, builds, diffs and make lint. I'm shown a report before I start my review. I think the sender should at least see the same report.
<bac> review-submit is great and getting better.  is it time we require its use?
<barry> bac: maybe when the web-side is working?
<BjornT> we could at least include the lint output in the review request mail.
<bac> i was asked to do a review yesterday that a) has no cover letter and b) was not pushed to devpad.  review-submit would've caught both of those problems
<barry> BjornT: +1
<barry> bac: good point.  you don't think it's too much of a pita to do that and edit PR?
<barry> maybe we should enable that PR stanza output by default?
<barry> sinzui: take these ideas and run with it
 * sinzui looks to the weekend
<bac> barry: i think it is useful as is, so the PR part doesn't make it any harder.
<barry> [VOTE] who wants to require use of bzr review-submit?  say +1 if yes, -1 if no
<MootBot> Please vote on:  who wants to require use of bzr review-submit?  say +1 if yes, -1 if no.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #launchpad-meeting
<sinzui> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sinzui. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<flacoste> barry: we need an exception
<danilos> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from danilos. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<barry> flacoste: go ahead
<flacoste> it's not uncommon to review a pastebin diff
<flacoste> for trivial fix and other such niceties
<barry> flacoste: yes definitely, that should still be fine
<flacoste> ok, then if that's still fine i'm
<barry> but require the tool for "normal" branches
<flacoste> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from flacoste. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<barry> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from barry. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<bac> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bac. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<BjornT> +1 (give that it's possible to have exceptions as flacoste mentioned)
<MootBot> +1 received from BjornT. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<danilos> flacoste: could we not make it easier to use review-submit than use pastebin too?
<salgado> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from salgado. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<jtv> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jtv. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<flacoste> danilos: i don't think review-submit handles that nicely
<barry> it'd be cool if review-submit could interact w/pastebin for simple changes
<flacoste> e.g. no need for a cover letter, scrap make lint, etc.
<danilos> (even for trivial stuff, you must have it in a branch someplace, so it's almost ready)
<danilos> barry: yeah, just occurred to me as well :)
<flacoste> bzr diff |utilities/paste is simpler
<danilos> bzr review-pastebin ;)
<barry> bzr review-submit --paste :)
<barry> #endvote
<barry> uh mootbot
<BjornT> danilos: think of, for example, the case where you want part of a branch reviewed. i.e., get it reviewed while you prepare a branch to contain the given revisions.
<barry> #endvote
<barry> okay, so end vote doesn't work ;)
<barry> but i think we're unanimous
<barry> [ACTION] barry will require bzr review-submit w/exceptions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry will require bzr review-submit w/exceptions
<barry> we're one minute over so unless there's anything else i'll turn mootbot off and we can have our off-the-record discussion led by danilos :)
<barry> 5
 * flacoste kicks MootBot
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:46.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<flacoste> thanks barry
<barry> danilos: the floor is yours, jtv the heel is yours
<danilos> thanks all, especially barry :)
<bac> thanks barry.  thanks mootbot
<danilos> I don't like this mootbot guy, when was he hired? :)
<jtv> squish
<barry> danilos: c'mon get to the pr0n already!
<danilos> anyway, back to work (someone's got to make the pr0n! :)
<jtv> and for me, dinner!
<cprov> sinzui: why are you talking like that ... I thought you liked soyuz branches.
<danilos> barry: emailing you the details :)
<barry> <kirk voice>pr00000000000000000nnnnnnnn</kirk voice>
<barry> danilos: :-D
<barry> okay guys, gotta run...
<sinzui> cprov: soyuz is both foreign to me, and has some of the oldest code
<sinzui> cprov: I find your and bigjools's branches hard to review
<sinzui> cprov: I'll l get my reply about your branch in a few hours. I started reviewing it before the meeting
<cprov> sinzui: we are trying to get code in better shape, but as you can see, we are failing ;) it's not getting any easier.
<cprov> sinzui: ok, thanks
#launchpad-meeting 2008-01-17
<kiko> thumper, you actually around?
<Rinchen> howdy
<Rinchen> SteveA, I'd like for us to use mootbot today
<Rinchen> Do you want to do that or shall I run it on the side?
<Rinchen> commands here below the fold:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<kiko> Rinchen, since you know the commands, why don't you run it?
<kiko> I spoke to SteveA about it yesterday
<Rinchen> okey dokey
<kiko> me
<Rinchen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:02. The chair is Rinchen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Rinchen> Welcome to the Launchpad Developers meeting!  The purpose of the meetings is to coordinate Launchpad development, and particularly to ensure that none of the developers is blocked from doing what they need to do.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<statik> me
<sinzui> me
<leonardr> me
<kiko> me
<SteveA> me
<carlos> me
<jtv> me
<allenap> me
<bac> me
<mrevell> heyme
<BjornT> me
<danilos> me
<jamesh> me
<bigjools> me
<schwuk> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<mthaddon> me
<flacoste> me
<matsubara> me
<barry> me (sorta)
<Rinchen> mpt?
<intellectronica> me
<mpt> me
<Rinchen> gmb?
<kiko> wtf
<sinzui> coward
<Rinchen> heh
<salgado> me
<Rinchen> ok, moving on.  And my apologies for not pasting in the agenda.
<intellectronica> LongPointyStick: see what you've done? you scared gmb away
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<Rinchen> Next meeting
<Rinchen> Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> Oops report (Matsubara)
<Rinchen> Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
 * LongPointyStick MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
<schwuk> Rinchen: gmb is having issues with Freenode - he'll be back shortly
<stub> me
<Rinchen> Bug tags
<Rinchen> Operations report (mthaddon)
<Rinchen> DBA report (stub)
<Rinchen> Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<Rinchen> Blockers
<Rinchen> any changes to the agenda?
<Rinchen> 3
<Rinchen> 2
<Rinchen> 1
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
<LongPointyStick> intellectronica: anyone else you want scared away?
<kiko> same time, same place.
<Rinchen> next meeting is scheduled for the the 24th
<kiko> +1
<gmb_> Right.
<gmb_> Finally.
<gmb_> me
<gmb_> Sorry.
<cprov> me
<Rinchen> Anyone know ahead of time that they will not be able to attend?
<intellectronica> i may or may not be able to attend
<BjornT> i might not be there next week
<Rinchen> [AGREE] next meeting is scheduled for the 24th
<intellectronica> i'll let you know in advance, as soon as i know of the plans for next week
<Rinchen> [AGREED] next meeting is scheduled for the 24th
<MootBot> AGREED received:  next meeting is scheduled for the 24th
<Rinchen> thank intellectronica and BjornT
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
<Rinchen> [AGREED] There were no actions
<MootBot> AGREED received:  There were no actions
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 183626, 160236
<ubotu> Bug 183626 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626 is private
<matsubara> stub, I assigned 160236 to you. Can you take a look? It's reproducible with
<matsubara> two slightly different patterns.
<matsubara> jamesh, can you take 183626?
<Rinchen> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/183626
 * stub has a look
<jamesh> matsubara: sure.
<matsubara> there's another oops re: mailing lists that I discussed with barry and will file it later on.
<matsubara> thanks jamesh
<Rinchen> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236
<jamesh> that one probably doesn't need to be private
<matsubara> jamesh: all right, I'll change the privacy
<stub> Bug 160236
<ubotu> Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private
<Rinchen> [AGREED] jamesh to review bug 183626
<MootBot> AGREED received:  jamesh to review bug 183626
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 183626 in launchpad "OOPS accessing openid identification URL of a non-existent user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183626
<jamesh> MooBot is quite talkative
<Rinchen> yeah :-)
<SteveA> it's like a three stooges skit
<Rinchen> Will stub be looking at the other bug?
<matsubara> stub: you ok with taking the other one?
<stub> matsubara: Bug 160236 is one for me. It hasn't been prioritised or targetted. Probably a days work given distractions.
<ubotu> Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private
<Rinchen> [AGREED] stub will be looking at bug 160236
<MootBot> AGREED received:  stub will be looking at bug 160236
<ubotu> Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private
<ubotu> Bug 160236 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/160236 is private
<SteveA> stub: please comment on but 160236 as to whether there are any security implications
<matsubara> thanks stub.
<matsubara> Rinchen: I'm done. thank you.
<Rinchen> Thanks matsubara
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Hi, have one for today
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/183297
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/183297
<SteveA> stub: as in, I'd like a comment if there are.  And I'd like a comment if there aren't.  And I'd like a comment if it needs more research or thinking.
<Rinchen> bug 183297
<ubotu> Bug 183297 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/183297 is private
<Rinchen> Edwin, where do you stand on that?
<matsubara> that's fixed Rinchen, we need a CP for it
<stub> SteveA: Doing now.
<Rinchen> kiko, will you approve the CP for that?
<SteveA> ta
<EdwinGrubbs> Rinchen: I finally got it landed, after lifeless killed off a process on the pqm box that was holding open a port which caused the tests to fail every time for everyone
<kiko> Rinchen, matsubara: does it happen often enough for a CP?
<Rinchen> Thanks Edwin.
<matsubara> kiko: it's a security vulnerability
<SteveA> point of order
<SteveA> bugs don't get approved for a CP
<SteveA> branches or patches do
<Rinchen> so noted.
<SteveA> the approver's job is to be assured that the change is minimal
<SteveA> and as free of risk as possible
<SteveA> and that it actually fixes the problem
<kiko> since I'm who approves them in general, rest assured that I KNOW THAT :-P
<kiko> I need to see a diff anyway
<SteveA> exactly
<SteveA> kiko: this isn't just for you ;-)
<EdwinGrubbs> kiko: it's revision 5517
<kiko> if somebody else wants to approve CPs they are in big trouble
<Rinchen> Thanks kiko.  Any other discussion on this topic?
<kiko> lo
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
<SteveA> kiko: well... YT likes to approve them sometimes ;-)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
<Rinchen> There are no proposed bug tags.
<SteveA> nonetheless, I think it's important that we all understand what the process is, and why
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon)
<mthaddon> Working with thumper to finalise staging codehosting setup
<mthaddon> Production mailman pretty much in place
<mthaddon> Staging update script has had an overall and will be putting in place notifications shortly
<mthaddon> That's it from me unless there are any questions
<mthaddon> s/overall/overhaul
<kiko> mthaddon, note https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt
<kiko> which is a neat URL to have
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://staging.launchpad.net/successful-updates.txt
<SteveA> nice
<SteveA> do we have that linked from one of the wiki pages about production systems?
<mthaddon> I'll be putting in place a daily email if the updates haven't succeeded
<SteveA> that would rock
<kiko> mthaddon, yeah, add it to the wikipage
<Rinchen> mthaddon, we should chat later to see about adding it to devpad landing
<mthaddon> yep, will figure out with Rinchen where the best place to put it is
<Rinchen> [AGREED] mthaddon and Rinchen to figure out best place to link the link
<MootBot> AGREED received:  mthaddon and Rinchen to figure out best place to link the link
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
<MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
<stub> DB patches for this cycle have been approved. The ones I need to land have landed except for one of Tom's, which is next in the PQM queue.
<stub> People with outstanding db patches they need to land please land them.
<stub> New DB hardware coming soon. Need to chase up status with elmo.
<SteveA> that would rock/win 14
<SteveA> oops
<stub> Nothing else.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
<kiko> no, though I have a few there
<kiko> ah, question
<Rinchen> and the agreed above from Tom should have been an action. My mistake.
<kiko> salgado, do we need to deploy anything for tickcount to work?
<salgado> kiko, nope, although at this time they're only being stored
<flacoste> Btw, my original patch for bug #5313 was rejected by pqm for those
<flacoste> unrelated errors we are seeing so I decided to wait for this small
<flacoste> change approval to merge all together.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 5313 in launchpad "Allow menu links in arbitrary templates" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5313
<flacoste> sorry
<flacoste> i have an RT
<carlos> flacoste: that's my text :-P
<flacoste> RT  #29756: Need an apache box to serve list of country mirrors to apt
<kiko> salgado, I don't quite get that -- isn't there a python extension that counts?
<flacoste> carlos: i know, it was in the X selection
<salgado> kiko, ah, right.  I'll add it as a dependency in launchpad-dependencies
<Rinchen> flacoste, how urgent is that RT?
<kiko> salgado, is it in PQM? otherwise won't your landing fail?
<flacoste> salgado: ?
<salgado> kiko, my landing will probably fail, good point
<kiko> salgado, and note with mthaddon that it needs to be updated?
<flacoste> salgado: we have the same issue with python-simplejson
<flacoste> it's preventing leonardr' branches from landing
<salgado> okay, looks like I'll have to do that today
<salgado> no worries, it's quick
<flacoste> Rinchen: i don't think it's that urgent, salgado?
<salgado> Rinchen, not urgent, no
<SteveA> I wonder...
<Rinchen> [ACTION] salgado to update launchpad-dependencies
<MootBot> ACTION received:  salgado to update launchpad-dependencies
<SteveA> should we have lanchpad-dependencies packages under /sourcecode/ in a standard RF tree
<SteveA> so that it's easy to see what they are
<kiko> SteveA, salgado: are they big?
<SteveA> they shoiuld be tiny
<kiko> then that'd be a good idea
<SteveA> thanks kiko
<Rinchen> who will do that?
<salgado> python-imaging, graphviz, bison, cvs?
<SteveA> oh
<Rinchen> salgado I assume yes?
<SteveA> I don't mean the actual dependencies themselves
<salgado> these are some of the dependencies of launchpad-dependencies
<SteveA> I mean the deb package
<Rinchen> ah
<SteveA> the "metadata only" thing
<SteveA> that we build into the dependencies package
<salgado> ah, okay
<kiko> ken
<SteveA> sorry I was unclear there
<salgado> it's easy to see that with "apt-cache show launchpad-dependencies", though
<SteveA> that tells you what is installed on a system
<SteveA> or perhaps what is available in our repo
<SteveA> doesn't show us the history, or what was added and why
<salgado> nope, that gives you the description of the package, including its dependencies
<salgado> for the history we have debdiff
<SteveA> we also have bzr
<SteveA> and I know how to use bzr
<Rinchen> so SteveA, it's unclear if you are suggesting that salgado do this or requesting that he do this.
<SteveA> I proposed that it is a good idea
<SteveA> I think kiko concurs
<SteveA> so, next step would be filing a bug
<kiko> I propose salgado do it
<SteveA> it's not urgent
<kiko> I don't like good ideas with nobody to do them
<SteveA> but is a good thing
<kiko> if nobody's going to do them
<kiko> then don't have the idea <wink>
<jamesh> could we manage launchpad-dependencies in a PPA?
<mpt> and if it's not in the bugtracker, itl'l be forgotten
<SteveA> I second salgado do it :)
<salgado> I still think that's unnecessary as it's easy to get the history if we ever need it
<kiko> salgado, the problem is the opacity of it -- I don't know where to look if I wanna change it
<kiko> and I need to learn one more location
<cprov> jamesh: the unsigned archives will beat us
<SteveA> let's have this discussion in the bug report
<kiko> to answer the question
<SteveA> if we end up closing it with no action
<SteveA> then the discussion is captured there
<jamesh> cprov: it'd be good to fix that :)
<SteveA> and if we do it, it gets tracked there
<Rinchen> [ACTION] salgado to investigate adding launchpad-dependencies metadata to RF  /sourcecode. A bug report should be filed.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  salgado to investigate adding launchpad-dependencies metadata to RF  /sourcecode. A bug report should be filed.
<Rinchen> Any further discussion on this topic or RT requests?
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<cprov> jamesh: yes, at some point, but not /tomorrow/
<mrevell> This week's user-affecting issue arises from emails we've had over the past couple of weeks to feedback@launchpad.net.
<SteveA> do our OOPS management scripts and cgis live under /sourcecode/ too?
<mrevell> It appears some people are getting stuck in the new account creation process.
<SteveA> I think that would be good, for the same reasons
<mrevell>  The emails we've had suggest that, after following the link in the confirmation email, some of our users don't realise that they have to enter their new password twice.
<mrevell> Looking at the /+newaccount page I think the instructions are reasonably straightforward.
<jamesh> SteveA: they are in a bazaar branch, but not checked out under sourcecode
<mrevell> However, Richard Weideman has also been in touch to say that he feels that were Launchpad to become more popular in an educational setting - such as students and teachers reporting Edubuntu bugs - the signup process may require some more niceties.
<mrevell> In my chat with Richard, we discussed rewriting the confirmation email to make it friendlier and to offer more handholding.
<mrevell> I'd like to get your input on this, please, via the launchpad-users list.
<mrevell> Thanks Rinchen
<SteveA> jamesh: let's get them present under /sourcecode.  they're not big, and it's more apparent where to get them and work on them if they're there
<mpt> bug 183230 may be relevant
<Rinchen> Thanks mrevell.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 183230 in launchpad "Field for retyping your password should have a separate label" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230
<SteveA> action on matsubara ?
<kiko> mrevell, Rinchen: there is already a bug for this
<kiko> as mpt says
<kiko> I'm not sure what else we could do
<mpt> and bug 129399, which is a separate issue
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129399 in launchpad ""Password:" label is cryptic on confirmation page" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399
<mrevell> kiko: Yeah, I'm also not sure what else we could do. Thanks fo rpointing to those bugs.
<kiko> mpt, I think that bug is fixed -- carlos?
<carlos> mpt: I'm working on that bug and should be fixed in this cycle
<carlos> kiko: I got new requirements and a better way to fix it
<Rinchen> SteveA, I'll follow up with matsubara on the other request
<kiko> carlos, har har
<mpt> carlos, you're working on 183230 afaik
<carlos> well, not really new requirements but a new mandatory way to solve it
<mpt> 129399 is separate
<carlos> mpt: yeah, that's what I was talking about
<mpt> and probably easier
<carlos> sorry, I don't type fast enough...
<carlos> :-)
<Rinchen> [LINK]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://launchpad.net/bugs/183230
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 183230 in launchpad "Field for retyping your password should have a separate label" [High,Triaged]
<Rinchen> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129399
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 129399 in launchpad ""Password:" label is cryptic on confirmation page" [Low,Confirmed]
<Rinchen> Any further discussion on mrevell's topic?
<Rinchen> ok, we have two last minute additions to the agenda
<SteveA>  \o/
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] making good use of our beta testers  - SteveA
<MootBot> New Topic:  making good use of our beta testers  - SteveA
<kiko> ah, that topic. I can discourse about it too. :)
<SteveA> I've been talking with mark about making good use of the efforts our enthusiastic band of beta testers offer to us
<SteveA> I don't want to say much about it now, cos we don't have much time
<SteveA> however, there will be discussions and email threads about it soon, and we'll most likely have one feature per release
<SteveA> that we make special in some way, for beta testers
<SteveA> that's all from me on this for now.
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] getting creative about adoption and communication - SteveA
<MootBot> New Topic:  getting creative about adoption and communication - SteveA
<SteveA> also, I've been chatting with mark about how we get people to adopt launchpad
<SteveA> and how we communicate with the outside world about how launchpad is pretty darn cool
<SteveA> I want us to try some LEAN experiments in this direction
<SteveA> so I'll be talking with kiko and other team leads about this over the coming days, to see if we can come up with some ideas within teams
<kiko> okay okay
<SteveA> I don't have good answers, but I think we can make a good process to experiment and try stuff out
<SteveA> and that's all from me on this, for now
<Rinchen> Thanks SteveA for both topics
<Rinchen> [TOPIC] Blockers
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blockers
<jtv> Translations: Not blocked
<Rinchen> Releases Team: Not Blocked.
<SteveA> stub, jamesh: you guys blocked?
<BjornT> Bugs Team: not blocked
<jamesh> no
<stub> SteveA: Thai food, no way.
<SteveA> SC: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz Team: not blocked
<schwuk> HWDB: not blocked
<flacoste> Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed
<statik> lpcomm: not blocked
<Rinchen> [AGREED] Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Foundations: some branches are waiting on simplejson and tickcount installation before being landed
<Rinchen> (shows up in the meeting summary that way)
<kiko> flacoste, be careful with those dependencies -- maybe elmo needs to be notified, but mthaddon can advise
<Rinchen> Soyuz?
<Rinchen> ah sorry
<Rinchen> Code Hosting?
<flacoste> kiko: we need a backport (rebuild) for simplejson, maybe also tickcount
<SteveA> Rinchen: we have no code hosting representative here
<salgado> flacoste, kiko, these dependencies can't be added to the dapper package, so we'll have to backport them and install in the machines
<kiko> flacoste, sounds like problems
<SteveA> Rinchen: we need to contact tim, and let him know some kind of representation is expected
<Rinchen> [ACTION] Rinchen to contact thumper about meeting representation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to contact thumper about meeting representation
<Rinchen> Thanks all
<Rinchen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:46.
<SteveA> thanks Rinchen
<SteveA> thanks MootBot
<SteveA> thanks kiko
<Rinchen> Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<SteveA> thanks wonderful launchpad team!
<jtv> SteveA: Thank you
<Rinchen> kiko, so this is nifty:  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/launchpad-meeting.20080117_1402.html
<mpt> <table border="1">, yo
<Rinchen> with the full log at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/launchpad-meeting.log.20080117_1402.html
<Rinchen> hehe
<Rinchen> yeah
<Rinchen> Seeker`, ping
<Seeker`> Rinchen: pong
<Rinchen> Hiya Seeker`
<Rinchen> Some feedback after the LP meeting on the bot
<Rinchen> it worked great but it was too noisy
<Rinchen> is there a way to turn off in channel responses and just keep the moderate private messages?
* Rinchen changed the topic of #launchpad-meeting to: Launchpad Meeting Grounds | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Meeting Logs: Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<Seeker`> it would be possible
<Seeker`> but I dont have access to the server atm
<Seeker`> and the guy that does has disappeared it seems
<Seeker`> but the actual code change shouldn't be too hard
<Rinchen> If we need to find better hosting, we might be able to get this hosted at ubuntu.com (the place we host irclogs)
<Hobbsee> hah.  dream on.
<Seeker`> the hosting is fine, but I forgot my password, and the guy that owns the server isn't about atm :)
<Rinchen> Seeker`, would you be amiable to making those code changes soonish and trying to contact the kryten owner?
<matsubara> Rinchen: bug 174930
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174930 in mootbot "Very spammy bot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174930
<Hobbsee> when you manage to get rt to host an irc bot on canonical servers, and give some community people access to it, /please/ contact me.
<Hobbsee> irc council has been trying that one for a while
<matsubara> btw, how does it compute the people present?
<Rinchen> thanks matsubara.  There you go Seeker` , your very own bug report
<Seeker`> matsubara: It looks at who says stuf
<Seeker`> matsubara: If someone says something and they aren't in the list, it adds them
<Seeker`> I cant make any changes in the next week or so, as I am in the middle of exams
<matsubara> right.
<Rinchen> we could probably put the logs on irclogs.  If we can't host the bot then maybe Dennis could?
<Hobbsee> matsubara: you could just quiet it in the channel
<Rinchen> or I can give you an account on my home server.
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: seveas/  he doesn't wnat to host more bots, and is trying to give up ubotu as it is
<Rinchen> hmm
<matsubara> Hobbsee: yeah, that would be an workaround. It's nice to have some feedback from it that it took the commands, though
<Seeker`> once I can get in cotnact with the guy with the passwords, I can make changes to the bot easily
<Rinchen> Seeker`, Hobbsee - the other idea is to contact imbrandon since he's got a farm bigger than mine
<Rinchen> and he runs a bunch of free services
<Seeker`> matsubara: It PMs the meeting chair with messages like it does the channel
<kiko> matsubara, what Seeker` said. :)
<Hobbsee> Rinchen: which would give all motu's access to it.  neat.
<Rinchen> matsubara, ^^ so if we turn it off in channel, I (or steve or kiko) will still get the ack's back from the bot)
<Rinchen> Hobbsee, precisely
<matsubara> ah ok. thanks Seeker`, Rinchen, kiko
<Rinchen> Seeker`, if you have issues with the hosting. Let me know. I know imbrandon personally so I can ask on your behalf.
<Seeker`> Rinchen: will do
<Rinchen> Thanks again Seeker`
<Rinchen> It made producing the minutes a 15 second affair. I just copied in the logs and the actions to our meeting agenda page and presto! done!
<Rinchen> (well, I copied the LINKS to the logs and the action text)
#launchpad-meeting 2009-01-14
<barry> #startmeeting
<barry> mooooootbooottt!
<barry> anyway, welcome everyone to this week's ameu reveiwer's meeting.  who's here today?
<abentley> me
<bac> me
<mars> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<sinzui> me
<adeuring> me
<flacoste> me
<gary_poster> me
<allenap> me
<adeuring> barry: shouting at machines can have bad side-effects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
<barry> adeuring: will check that out later :)
<danilos> me
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * mars to stop ocr, will review js on call until more reviewers are trained
<barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> [TOPIC]  * mars to stop ocr, will review js on call until more reviewers are trained
<barry> so.  mars is going to stop doing regular ocr for a while, but he will be doing js reviews on call.  this will last until we have more js reviewers trained up to spread the load
<barry> my only concern is ocr coverage for thursdays
<mars> well, we have experienced JS reviewers - they're just spread out :)
<barry> since there's no euro coverage on thursdays
<barry> mars: ah
<danilos> mars: are you really happy with allowing review requests to come at any time? that might be a bit hard on you
<danilos> (i.e. I'd suggest keeping a time slot as well, and allowing pre-arrangements in other cases)
<mars> danilos, I find myself doing so anyway, for the YUI integration.  Ironcially, I hope that this frees up more time to code :)
<danilos> mars: right, if that's the case, go for it :)
<mars> danilos, it's only temporary, until some more YUI code goes through review with the AJAX team.  Then I'll switch back.
<danilos> barry: early hours of euro coverage are usually not very busy (at least that's my experience on tuesdays)
<mars> barry has left the building...
<gmb> me
<danilos> gmb: ok, we hear you ;)
<mars> ok, well, barry was concerned that we may be thin for reviewers
<mars> that puts the Thursday/West review load on cprov
<danilos> I can myself switch to Thursdays, though that leaves Tuesday euro slot empty
 * mars checks the ReviewerSchedule
<danilos> though, we've got two "west" reviewers (rockstar and bac)
<bac> i think tuesdays would be sufficiently covered
<intellectronica> me too (sorry i'm late)
<danilos> agreed, so I'll just switch over to Thursdays, but starting next week :)
<mars> danilos, cool.  I've found myself doing Euro reviews when I start my shift, so maybe you can start them even earlier.
<cprov> danilos: nice!
<danilos> cprov: you are still on your own this week, but week 3 should be easier for you :)
<mars> so, we are agreed then?
<cprov> danilos: let's hope so :)
<mars> 3
<mars> 2
<mars> 1
<danilos> I've already updated the ReviewersSchedule
<danilos> :)
<mars> danilos, thank you
<mars> [AGREED] Danilo to move to the Thursday/Euro review slot
<mars> ok, so what's next?
<gary_poster> Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<gary_poster> [TOPIC] * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<abentley> Have people been trying out bzr send?
<bac> abentley: yes!  love it.
<mars> abentley, yes!  It doesn't like unicode emails :(
<allenap> Yes, it's cool.
<mars> but it's awesome to use
 * gmb just used it for the first time. Looks cool.
<abentley> Cool.  I hope to get it supporting bundles soon.
<bac> abentley: if you use 'editor' could it be made to save a copy of the MP you write in the directory, like review-submit did?
<abentley> So then you don't need to create a branch even.
<mars> barry!
<barry> jeebus.  xchat gave me no indication i wasn't logged in
<danilos> bzr send is on my agenda to try out today or tomorrow (I have your instruction loaded in one window :)
<barry> i saw my messages but nothing by anyone else
<barry> i thought you all were ignoring me ;)
<abentley> bac: I imagine it could.
<barry> what's the last thing you saw from me?
<bac> 10:00:38] <barry> mooooootbooottt!
<abentley> bac: I had quite a lot of hate for that feature, because I couldn't commit --strict after that.
<gary_poster> barry: mars: ah
<danilos> barry: your behind on the door, but that's probably not what you are actually asking
<gary_poster> :-)
<abentley> bac: Of course, if you use a different client, it will be in your sent items.
<danilos> barry: fyi, I've switched from Tuesdays to Thursdays for OCR to help alleviate load on cprov
<barry> danilos: ha ha!
<barry> danilos: thanks.  did you update the wiki pages?
<mars> barry, and we're telling war stories for bzr send
<bac> abentley: i'm just paranoid about losing work and having to re-type the MP.  can work around, though.
<barry> mars: excellent!  are people using bzr send for mps now?
<danilos> barry: we've moved on to peanut gallery where abentley is showing off his bzr send magic
 * barry will have to look at the logs
<abentley> bac: You can certainly save it yourself...
<bac> abentley: that's the work-around i mentioned.
<abentley> mars: I saw the unicode thing you mentioned.  Was pretty shocked that LP's simple_sendmail can't handle email ids with Unicode.
<barry> abentley: we talked at one time about reviving review-submit and rebuilding it on top of 'bzr send'.  does that still make sense?
<mars> abentley, the OOPS comes from the Python email module I think.
 * barry ducks
<mars> LP's simple_sendmail can't be blamed for that :)
<sinzui> abentley: There is a mythical branch from spiv two years ago that would handle that.
<abentley> barry: I think it would be much better to make "bzr send" do what we need than invent our own quirky thing that is kinda the same.
<barry> barry_: your irc client sucks
<barry_> barry: i know :(
<mars> LOL
<abentley> mars: Python's email module supports unicode headers when used correctly.
<mars> ah
<danilos> we'll get to see how it all works once I give it a try :)
<abentley> mars: It's just a bit of a hassle to use it correctly.
<barry> abentley: send would have to grow some hook points perhaps.  e.g. to do the lint checking and cover.txt prompting, etc.  is that feasible?
<mars> danilos, it sends the mail and such, but you get this wayward mail after-the-fact.
<abentley> barry: I think so.
<mars> danilos, maybe it's trying to archive the mail or something when it blows up
<danilos> mars: right, I'll pay close attention to see what's happening once I get to it
<barry> abentley: cool.  here's to hoping there's a week 0 soon :)
<barry> shall we move on to other topics?
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<barry> i have made no progress on my two
<barry> flacoste: any progress on API reviewer cheat sheet?
<flacoste> barry, no i suck
<barry> no worries :)
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> i should
<flacoste> sucking like that 4 meeting in a row isn't good
<flacoste> i should do it
<barry> flacoste: kfogel has been making a lot of great progress on the dev wiki
<flacoste> or either find somebody else to do it
<flacoste> i saw
<kfogel> oh, barry et al: I meant to ask if people are happy with the direction in the dev wiki
<barry> cool.  we'll just keep it on the agenda for now anyway
<barry> kfogel: in general, yes.  i found it a bit hard to find the pages i was looking for, but mostly because they'd been renamed (not that that reorg is a bad thing)
<barry> kfogel: i think the thing that would /really/ help me is some progress on the outstanding dev wiki usability bugs
<kfogel> barry: yes, sorry.  I'm aiming it at the newcomers, not us; the inconvenience should be temporary.
<kfogel> barry: oh -- are these filed issues?  (I can search for them?)
<barry> kfogel: oh, that's totally fine.  i'll get used to it.  yes, iirc they're all on the launchpad-docs project, but double check w/ mrevell
<kfogel> *nod*
<kfogel> will do
<barry> thx!
<barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
<barry> any updates from mentors or mentats?  any graduations imminent? :)
<allenap> I think adeuring is due to graduate... he's pretty hot on reviews.
<adeuring> allenap: thanks :)
<barry> excellent
<barry> allenap: send me an email and i'll make it official
<allenap> barry: Cool, okay :)
<barry> great!  well, that's all i have today.  unless you have anything else, we can break now and i can spend the next 3.79 hours trying to figure out why xchat is so horribly broken for me now, and then another 6.12 days switching to irc-in-emacs only to punt on it all and stick with <cough>colloquy</cough>
<gary_poster> barry: <mutter>that's what I'm using :-D </mutter>
<barry> :)
<barry> gary_poster: maybe i should use irooms on my iphone :)
<gary_poster> heh
<barry> okay then!
<barry> #endmeeting
<barry> thanks everyone.  see you back at the ranch
#launchpad-meeting 2009-01-15
<rockstar> me
<rockstar> Oops...
<henninge> rockstar: you're really eager, aren't you? ;)
<Ursinha> lol
<rockstar> It's 8 AM here, really tired...
<Ursinha> rockstar, have you talked with someone about bug 260171 or bug 252807?
<ubottu> Bug 260171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/260171 is private
<ubottu> Bug 252807 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/252807 is private
<henninge> Ursinha: not meeting yet!
<henninge> rockstar: you don't have to answer that!
<henninge> ;)
<Ursinha> henninge, c'mon, i'm feeding his hallucination
<matsubara> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> it seems our bot is gone
<matsubara> bot is missing
<matsubara> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<matsubara> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<rockstar> me
<Ursinha> me!
<sinzui> me
<herb> me
<henninge> ich
<intellectronica> me
<noodles775> me
<henninge> does it have to be me?
<Ursinha> don't know
<flacoste> me
<henninge> since the bot is not here anyway ...
<rockstar> The bot annoyed me anyway.  I wanted to punch him out.
<matsubara> we're missing stub, he should be here in a moment. let's move on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] Agenda
<matsubara>  * Next meeting
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<matsubara>  * QA pending items
<matsubara>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<Ursinha> rockstar, you want to punch him because he's part of the nightmare of waking up early :P
<matsubara>  * DBA report (DBA contact)
<Ursinha> *it's
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Next meeting
<matsubara> so same time next week?
<Ursinha> +1
<henninge> +1
<intellectronica> works for me
<rockstar> Ursinha: no, that's matsubara's fault...
<rockstar> :)
<noodles775> +1
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha> holy crap
<matsubara>  * matsubara to talk to ursinha about pending action items
<matsubara>     * Ursinha to talk to abentley about the status of bug 252807
<matsubara>     * Ursinha to watch for new occurrences of OOPS-1083H1147 the next hours/days (+newaccount timeout)
<matsubara>     * Ursinha and rockstar to talk to code people about 260171 and 252807
<matsubara>  * matsubara to file a bug about soyuz timeout oops OOPS-1083D1281 (ubuntu/+build timeout) and assign to al-maisan
<ubottu> Bug 252807 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/252807 is private
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1083H1147
<matsubara>  * herb to send Operations report to the list
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1083D1281
<Ursinha> all me
 * herb failed.
<Ursinha> 1) just talked to abentley about bug 252807, he's working on it
<herb> but I'm here this week if it's any consolation
<ubottu> Bug 252807 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/252807 is private
<Ursinha> 2) didn't talk about the other bugs, rockstar, did you?
<rockstar> Yes!
<matsubara> I filed bug 315458 for the soyuz timeout one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 315458 in soyuz "distro +builds page time out" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/315458
<rockstar> There's no solution to them though, not yet anyway.
 * noodles775 looks
<matsubara> welcome stub
<noodles775> al-maisan hasn't yet added any info... I'll check with him about the above bug when he gets back from lunch...
<matsubara> thanks noodles775
<matsubara> anything else Ursinha ?
<Ursinha> matsubara, not for actions from last meeting
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs
<Ursinha> right
<matsubara> Ursinha: stage is yours
<Ursinha> so, there are two annoying bugs generating oopses, but they're fixed or the fix is on pqm
<Ursinha> so fine
<Ursinha> the critical bugs are fix committed, so fine too
<Ursinha> I have two oopses I'm investigating, but low occurrences, so will keep doing that in this afternoon
<Ursinha> my afternoon, that is
<Ursinha> well, nothing else
<matsubara> ok. thanks Ursinha
<rockstar> Woot!  Hooray for fixing bugs.
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * QA pending items
<Ursinha> the same, the same
<matsubara> what is the same?
<Ursinha> matsubara, people need to qa the items :)
<Ursinha> rockstar, are you QAing your items?
<Ursinha> matsubara, the same is that the items are accumulating
<Ursinha> if help needed.... you know, poke us
<sinzui> No one like to QA my items :(
<rockstar> Ursinha, well, I haven't landed anything this cycle, so no.  I'll beat the rest of the team into submission though.
<Ursinha> rockstar, smart boy
<Ursinha> sinzui, do you want me to QA your items? :)
<Ursinha> if QAble for somebody else..
<Ursinha> anyone else needing help?
<sinzui> Ursinha: If you have time. My teams does not seem to have time...Some are more than week old
<Ursinha> sinzui, sure, I always can find some time to help QA
<matsubara> [action] matsubara and Ursinha to QA some of registry team items
<sinzui> Ursinha: The last one will require a LOSA to do, I will do it with him today...I think it is a chery pick candidate
<Ursinha> sinzui, right
<Ursinha> I'll check the items with you after the meeting
<Ursinha> alright
<Ursinha> rockstar, can you please ask code people to poke me so I can test stuff for them?
<Ursinha> pretty please?
<Ursinha> okay.. moving on
<Ursinha> thanks matsubara
<rockstar> Ursinha: some of their recent stuff will be pretty hard to test, but yeah.
<matsubara> thanks Ursinha
<matsubara> hard is good. builds character :-)
<matsubara> anyway, moving on
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
<herb> - Yesterday (2009-01-14) Cherry picked r7556 to fix bug 311690 and r7514 & r7562 to fix bugs 299997 & 316576.
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-integration/+bug/311690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311690 in launchpad-foundations "Delay between blob submission and blob availability causes Launchpad to OOPS." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299997 in soyuz "p3a can't build main packages against universe packages" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299997
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/299997
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311690 in launchpad-foundations "Delay between blob submission and blob availability causes Launchpad to OOPS." [Critical,Fix released]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299997 in soyuz "p3a can't build main packages against universe packages" [High,Fix released]
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/316576
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 316576 in soyuz "P3As default dependencies don't include $distro-updates" [High,Fix released]
<herb> - Over the past week the vast majority of our incidents have been related to bug 156453 and/or bug 118625
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/156453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156453
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/118625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156453 in loggerhead "production loggerhead branch leaks memory" [Critical,In progress]
<herb> - Once or twice a week we continue to see problems associated with bug 260171
<herb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/260171
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 118625 in launchpad-bazaar "codebrowse sometimes hangs" [High,Triaged]
<herb> - 2009-01-13 - We had a load spike on the slave DB this week, which appeared to be related to some sort of bot abusing launchpad. We reverted half the app servers to connect to only the master DB which balanced to load and cleared up the timeouts we were seeing. We've since moved the app servers back to the slave DB.
<ubottu> Bug 260171 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/260171 is private
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<herb> whee!
 * Ursinha got blind
<herb> I like it when ubottu doubles the size of my report.
<stub> herb: If load spikes are a regular issue, we could do that sort of load shifting dynamically. I wouldn't want the extra complexity though unless is really is required - a human pushing the button is probably the better option rather than letting the appservers decide.
<herb> figured when mootbot disappeared ubottu went with him.  anyway.
<herb> stub: for now, I think we prefer the human pushing the button
<herb> so that's it from the LOSAs unless there are any other questions/comments.
<matsubara> all right. thanks herb
<matsubara> [TOPIC] * DBA report (DBA contact)
<stub> People are still recovering from the new year break, so all quiet on the db front.
<stub> Not much in the way of patches this cycle, assuming no last minute rush waiting for me in tomorrows email. Just file download counts, which should be a no brainer, and a rosetta patch that got bounced last cycle and needs a reply from Mark.
<stub> \
<matsubara> that was easy :-)
<matsubara> thanks stub
<matsubara> anything else before I close?
<Ursinha> not from me
<matsubara> 3
<matsubara> 2
<matsubara> 1
<matsubara> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.
 * stub explodes
<rockstar> Thanks matsubara and Ursinha
<matsubara> #endmeeting
<henninge> stub: when does the window for our patch close?
<henninge> stub: Am I likely to see a reply soon?
<stub> henninge: Hopefully reply tomorrow.
<henninge> stub: cool! Thanks. ;)
#launchpad-meeting 2010-01-20
<bac> #startmeeting
<bac> hi -- welcome to the AMEU reviewer's meeting.  who is here?
<flacoste> me
<gary_poster> me
<bac> where is mootbot?
<bac> sinzui, EdwinGrubbs, mars, salgado-lunch, bigjools, allenap`: ping
<sinzui> me
<bac> BjornT: ping
<bigjools> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<allenap`> me
<bac> danilos ping
 * allenap` is sprinting too
<henninge> me
<mars> me
<bac> allenap`: your cohorts joining us?
<allenap`> bac: Apologies from all.
<bac> [TOPIC] agenda
<flacoste> bac: BjornT is sleeping
<bac>  * Roll call
<bac>  * Action items
<bac>  * Verifying that community contributions don't do harm (henninge)
<bac>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<mars> bac, "other teams to review lazr-js branches" from last week?
<bac> [topic] action items
<bac> mars: i'm getting there...
<bac> * Maris to bring up cross-team reviews in the lazr-js task force meeting and report back.
<danilos> me
<bac> mars did you have that discussion?
<danilos> :)
<mars> bac, done!  Zac and Sidnei both would like to start doing lazr-js branch reviews.
<bac> mars: great.
<bac> mars: how will we facilitate that/
<mars> so, if you have a lazr-js patch, you can ping them on IRC for a review
<mars> as well as the ususal suspects
<bac> mars: what is zac's irc nick?
<flacoste> mars: do we have up-to-date review guidelines for lazr-js?
<flacoste> bac: urbanape
<mars> bac, Zac is urbanape, sidnei is sidnei
<mars> flacoste, we are still using the JS guidelines on dev.lp.net
<bac> ok, thanks for following up maris
<bac> * Gavin to start discussion on the ML about doctest size, refactoring, moving corner cases to unittests, etc
<allenap`> bac: I haven't done that yet; please keep that action.
<bac> allenap`: ok, we'll roll it over
<bac> allenap`: can you try to do that early next week since you're sprinting?
<allenap`> bac: Yes, absolutely.
<bac> great
<bac> * Gary to do timing tests for try/except, examine current usage of check_permission, and we'll discuss again next week.
 * gary_poster did not do the timeit tests yet.  Next week.
<bac> gary_poster: any progress?
<bac> ok
<bac> * Curtis to land a import cleanup branch and then reviewers will enforce zero tolerance for introducing new issues.
<bac> sinzui: you did get that branch landed, correct?
<sinzui> done
<bac> great
<bac> while OCR yesterday we discovered one outstanding but it should be fixed when branches land today or tomorrow
<bac> we have one new item today from henninge
<bac> * Verifying that community contributions don't do harm (henninge)
<mars> ?
<henninge> yes
<bac> henninge: the floor is yours
<henninge> IThis came up after a review I did for a community developer on Monday.
<henninge> Heeding danilos reminder mail I checked that he had had a pre-imp discussion with an LP developer.
<henninge> It turned out though, that the team of the affected application (soyuz) did not agree with the change, at least not the way it was done.
<henninge> So, one lesson to learn would be to make sure the pre-imp was with some-one from the right team that would have domain knowledge.
<henninge> But I am wondering if we should also rquire a second "sanity-check" review from a developer of the affected team.
<henninge> Not a second code review.
<henninge> To me, that would be the clearest sign that all agree.
<bac> henninge: in the past, before we had community contributions, we tried to do the opposite -- pre-imps across the team.  but for community fixes perhaps it is a good idea.
<bigjools> I think that in the soyuz case it requires a lot more domain knowledge
<flacoste> i'm not sure pre-imp across the team is a sane choice anyway
<bigjools> and I would encourage a pre-imp with a soyuz dev even if the dev was an LP team member
<flacoste> pre-impl is where you want the more domain knowledge
<flacoste> so it makes most sense to do within team
<flacoste> i agree with bigjools with the extension to every domain
<bac> while we always encourage doing pre-imp calls do we agree they should be mandatory for community contributions?
<bigjools> yes
<henninge> +1
<bac> +1
<bigjools> unless we give someone an exception
<bigjools> I can think of one person who knows quite a lot :)
<barry> as long as exceptions are only given in a pre-imp call <wink>
<flacoste> agreed
<bac> [agreed] community contributions require a pre-imp call
<henninge> a pre-imp call with a domain dev
<bac> henninge had the further proposal of a second domain-specific review.  thoughts?
<henninge> there is still the chance that what was discussed in the pre-imp does not end up in the actual code.
<bigjools> I think that the first pre-imp should be with the domain specialist
<henninge> not out of malice, just misunderstandings etc.
<bigjools> we don't need 2 pre-imps
<danilos> a late +1 for me :)
<henninge> bigjools: not 2 pre-imps
<bac> bigjools: yes, that was implied.  we aren't talking about two pre-imps
<bigjools> ok
<henninge> we are talking about that each mp from a community developer should have been looked at by a domain dev.
<barry> henninge: +1
<henninge> not for a full code review but just to make sure it's sane.
<danilos> henninge, my concern there would be just that reviewers check that nothing was implemented which is not agreed upon (i.e. permission changes on certain objects, which is what I've seen)
<henninge> +1
<danilos> at this time, I think that's sane, but as we get more contributions, it will become unwieldy
<danilos> so +1/+0 from me (+1 now, +0 for the future :)
<bac> danilos: how does the reviewer know what has been agreed upon?
<sinzui> I have already had one branch to stole a day of my life
<danilos> bac, i.e. reading a bug report
<bac> danilos: that's great if the bug report is specific enough
<flacoste> i think we could use some discretion
<henninge> Maybe it's a case-to-case decission.
<flacoste> the reviewer could ask the pre-impl person to have a look
<danilos> bac, at least that was the case with one example where I've seen it fail; bug report was very specific about what fields should be exposed, and branch exposed others as well
<barry> if the domain specialist does the pre-imp they should do the sanity check review, and it can be up to them how thorough it is
<flacoste> if he sees it as a tricky change
<danilos> flacoste, this was a very simple change, for example
<bac> danilos: ok, that's cause for concern
<danilos> barry, yeah, agreed
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> to be honest
<flacoste> i think the mistake that happened there could have been done by any lp dev
<flacoste> not familiar with the domain
<flacoste> so it's not a big change
<bigjools> my point also
<danilos> bac, though, I believe pre-imp would have caught this, so I don't think it's cause for another review, or a problem with the review
<henninge> flacoste: but we usually just code within our domain.
<flacoste> more or less
<flacoste> usually
<flacoste> but not exclusively
<flacoste> and that's fine
<henninge> I know
<flacoste> and we want more of it
<henninge> I like it, too ;)
<bac> to me it seems the guiding principle should be that reviewers should always be open to asking for domain specific help.
<flacoste> i think a pre-impl with someone with domain expertise is always mandatory
<danilos> yeah, anyway, let's not introduce too many barriers; let's assume it's common wisdom that you should suggest a domain-specific reviewer if code looks too hard
<bigjools> more cross-domain experience would have helped the pre-imp ;)
<danilos> flacoste, +1
<danilos> flacoste, though, we agreed on that already :)
<henninge> bac: +1
<flacoste> yeah
<danilos> bac, +1
<flacoste> and i like bac formulation
<danilos> (I tried to say that, but you put it more nicely :)
<bac> ok, so we have no real action here except to be sensitive to getting domain specific eyes when necessary
<danilos> yeah
<bac> moving on...
<flacoste> well, that and enforcing pre-impl
<flacoste> on community contrib
<bac> flacoste: well that was done above
<bac> * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
<bac> anyone?
<henninge> bac, flacoste: I'll update the wiki ipage
<bac> henninge: thanks
<henninge> iPhone, iGoogle, iPage ;-)
<bac> [action] henning to update wiki page regarding pre-imps for community contributions
<bac> ok, well if there's nothing else we can end the meeting.
<bac> thanks everyone for coming, except you mootbot
<bac> #endmeeting
<mars> :)
<mars> thanks bac
<henninge> thanks bac
<gary_poster> thanks bac
<danilos> thanks bac :)
<salgado> crap, am I 1h late?
<salgado> is this meeting not 1545TUC?
<henninge> salgado: which? reviewer's?
<salgado> yeah
<salgado> oh, it's from 1500 to 1545
<salgado> damn
<henninge> salgado: sorry, mate ;-)
<salgado> bac, although I'm late I had an item in the agenda.  did you not see it or just skipped because I wasn't here?
<bac> salgado: i didn't see it at https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerMeetingAgenda
<bac> salgado: perhaps it got removed in an edit.  sorry.  can you put it back for next week?
<salgado> sure, I'll do that
#launchpad-meeting 2010-01-21
<bigjools> me
<Ursinha> :)
<henninge> me :)
<Ursinha> wait wait
<bigjools> come on get it together Ursula :)
<salgado> Ursinha, we waiting for matsubara?
<Ursinha> #startmeeting
<Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
<allenap> me
<Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
<sinzui> me
<Ursinha> me
<bigjools> meh
<Ursinha> salgado: he's not coming today
<henninge> still me
<Ursinha> bigjools: lol
<salgado> me (on behalf of the Foundations team)
<Ursinha> Chex, rockstar: hi
<rockstar> ni!
<Ursinha> salgado: oh, hi then :)
<Ursinha> stub isn't coming, he sent one email
<Ursinha> anyway
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda * Actions from last meeting * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett) * DBA report (stub) * Proposed items
<Ursinha> grrr
<Ursinha> this is not nice
<Ursinha> I don't see MootBot :/
<rockstar> MootBot isn't here right now-leave a message at the beep.
<salgado> who cares about MootBot anyway?  he won't help us fixing any bugs
<Ursinha> salgado: he helps us with the meeting :)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to email tim about  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/507487
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 507487 in launchpad-code "OOPS claiming a merge proposal" [High,In progress]
<Ursinha>     * Emailed Tim, Paul is already working on this one
<Ursinha>  * allenap to file a bug about OOPS-1474EA771 and discuss it with Bugs team.
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1474EA771
<Ursinha>  * henninge to fix bug 507498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 507498 in rosetta "AttributeError on potemplate page" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507498
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to email tim about allocate-revision-karma script still blowing up
<Ursinha>     * Emailed Tim about it
<Ursinha>  * matsubara to talk to someone from soyuz about critical bug 506489
<ubottu> Bug 506489 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/506489 is private
<Ursinha>     * emailed Julian and pinged on IRC about it
<bigjools> might as well close that, it's sorted for now
<Ursinha> allenap: have you filed a bug for that oops?
<allenap> Ursinha: It was marked as a dupe of an existing bug. I'll try and dig out the master bug.
<Ursinha> thanks allenap
<Ursinha> [action] allenap to dig the master bug of OOPS-1474EA771
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1474EA771
<Ursinha> thanks bigjools
<Ursinha> henninge: I see yours is fix committed, good :)
<henninge> yup
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
<Ursinha> bug 504291 is fix committed, that's our most offender in last weeks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504291 in launchpad-foundations "DisconnectionErrors (already disconnected) happening again" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504291
<Ursinha> we had a bunch of those in staging a few days ago: https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1479S1000, I guess it's foundations to take a look?
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1479S1000
<Ursinha> salgado: ^
<allenap> Ursinha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/508302
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 508302 in malone "NotImplementedError OOPS when reporting a bug" [High,Triaged]
<Ursinha> thanks allenap!
<bigjools> OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<salgado> Ursinha, well, the OOPSes happened before the fix reached staging, right?
<Ursinha> salgado: which fix?
<Ursinha> salgado: those are type errors, not the DisconnectionErrors
<salgado> Ursinha, the fix for bug 504291, which landed two days ago
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504291 in launchpad-foundations "DisconnectionErrors (already disconnected) happening again" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504291
<Ursinha> unless I've pasted the wrong oops
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> salgado: yes, but I said it's fix committed, the oopses are other kind
<salgado> oh, no, I thought the OOPS was of the same kind of the one you mentioned earlier
<Ursinha> salgado: no, it's not
<salgado> ok, I'll have a look at that OOPS
<salgado> the TypeError one
<Ursinha> thanks salgado
<Ursinha> [action] salgado to take a look in the TypeError oopses (OOPS-1479S1000)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1479S1000
<Ursinha> rockstar: what about the oops bigjools mentioned?
<bigjools> I got it emailing a MP in
<Ursinha> allenap: OOPS-1481A2038 is the second one in number of oopses in lpnet
 * rockstar looks
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1481A2038
 * allenap looks
<Ursinha> allenap: I see it's referencing bug 329917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329917 in malone "Changing a task's target using the API OOPSes as NotImplementedError" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329917
<allenap> Ursinha: Okay, it should reference bug 508302 instead.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 508302 in malone "NotImplementedError OOPS when reporting a bug" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508302
<Ursinha> allenap: great, I'll fix the reference
<allenap> Ursinha: There are two NotImplementedError OOPSes, but I think they're unrelated bugs.
<allenap> Ursinha: Thanks :)
<Ursinha> allenap: are there any plans to fix that?
<rockstar> bigjools, wtf?
<allenap> Ursinha: Deryck says he'll look at it next week, or, failing that, we'll definitely do it next cycle.
<bigjools> rockstar: that's what I said too
<Ursinha> allenap: right, thanks, I'll make a note in the bug
<Ursinha> bigjools, rockstar, is there a bug number for that?
<allenap> Ursinha: That is, the +filebug OOPS, but I think the same will be true of bug 329917.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 329917 in malone "Changing a task's target using the API OOPSes as NotImplementedError" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/329917
<rockstar> Ursinha, I'm filing one now.
<Ursinha> rockstar: thanks
<bigjools> there's no bug
<Ursinha> allenap: right, thanks :)
<Ursinha> bigjools: there will be :)
<Ursinha> rockstar: can you take a look in this problem?
<rockstar> Ursinha, bigjools' problem?
<bigjools> I have many problems :)
<Ursinha> rockstar: that oops is not a problem but a feature? :{
<Ursinha> :P
<rockstar> Ursinha, I will look, but I'm willing to bet it'll be hard to reproduce.
<rockstar> bigjools, does ungodly things to his bzr repos.
<Ursinha> rockstar: that's ok, trying to reproduce is fine :)
<bigjools> rockstar: I think it was when I did an MP for a branch with no changes
<rockstar> bigjools, that makes this problem ever weirder.
<Ursinha> bigjools, can you write that in the bug? as soon as rockstar files one, of course
<rockstar> bigjools, I'll note it in the bug.
<Ursinha> [action] rockstar to take a look in OOPS-1480CMP1
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1480CMP1
<Ursinha> thanks bigjools
<Ursinha> moving on
<Ursinha> we have two critical bugs, one soyuz and on lpbuildbot, both in progress
<Ursinha> so, we're fine
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)
<mbarnett> heya
<Ursinha> hi mbarnett :)
<mbarnett> LOSA launchpad activities and concerns this week include
<mbarnett> * Testing is coming along the new method for switching to read-only mode.
<mbarnett> * Getting ready for next week's rollout
<mbarnett> * Bug filed regarding oident issues on the importd servers (up to almost 200 oident processes running on galapagos has been observed)
<mbarnett> * Codebrowse continues to need frequent restarts
<mbarnett> * checkwatches likely to be turned back on later today
<mbarnett> i believe that is everything we wanted to raise in the meeting this week.
<Ursinha> thanks mbarnett
<Ursinha> does anyone have something to say to mbarnett?
<mbarnett> the bug for oident things is also listed in the incident log
<Ursinha> mbarnett: right
<Ursinha> thanks
<Ursinha> moving on then
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
<Ursinha> stub sent by email:
<Ursinha> Nothing exciting this week.
<Ursinha> Discussing requirements for minimal downtime PostgreSQL 8.4.2 upgrade. PG 8.4.2 packages but will need Slony-I 1.2.20 packages for both PG 8.3 and PG 8.4
<Ursinha> +which might be problematic. The alternative is several hours of downtime.
<Ursinha> Production systems running happily. Nothing else to report.
<Ursinha> oot. :)
<Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Proposed items
<Ursinha> No proposed items, anyone else has something that want to discuss?
<sinzui> Ursinha:
<Ursinha> sinzui: me
<sinzui> Ursinha: I think http://people.canonical.com/~lpqateam/test-plan-report-10.01.html is not updating
<Ursinha> sinzui: let me see
<Ursinha> sinzui: I'll check if the script is running fine, and will let you know after the meeting
<Ursinha> sinzui: thanks for reporting
<Ursinha> anyone else?
<Ursinha> ok then
<Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
<Ursinha> thanks all
<bigjools> thanks Ursinha
<mbarnett> thanks.
<allenap> Obrigado Ursinha.
<Ursinha> oh :)
<Ursinha> allenap: de nada :)
