#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-26
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+tc]  by ChanServ
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<kwwii> night all
<Who_> Hi all
<troy_s> jsgotangco, you made your plane apparently!
<troy_s> lol
<jsgotangco> i ran
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> when we landed, i just ran to Terminal F and arrived when they were almost done boarding
<troy_s> EEK!
<troy_s> that's no good
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> ended up with a bad back today
<troy_s> probably from that flight.
<troy_s> if i had to bet.
<troy_s> anywho... off to snag din din.
<troy_s> cya soon jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> ciao
<troy_s> bersace
<troy_s> greets
<bersace> troy_s: hello
<bersace> troy_s: how do you says a night where you didn't sleep, a wihte night ?
<bersace> white night ?
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> friday in paris was evil... it took us 3 hours  to get back to the hotel.
<PseudoPlacebo> goodnight
<bersace> troy_s: you visited paris ?
<troy_s> on friday we went to 'the pigs foot'
<bersace> ?
<bersace> a restaurant ?
<bersace> did you ate a pig's foot ?
<bersace> :)
<troy_s> no
<troy_s> we ate at 'the pigs foot'
<troy_s> how are things with you bersace?
<bersace> still working on gnome-scan
<bersace> :)
<troy_s> is that a scan tool?
<troy_s> bersace, can you fill the contents link on the wiki with a backround image if it is an attachment?
<bersace> gnome-scan is a gnome xsane replacement (for gnome)
<bersace> (only gnome)
<bersace> (remember that or some people will get mad)
<bersace> i don't understand you question
<bersace> what do you mean by "fill the contents link"
<troy_s> fill the background of the table of contents...
<bersace> troy_s: don't know
* bersace try to sleep
<PseudoPlacebo> Night, ya'll.
<kwwii> moin
<klepas> moin
<lapo> hi
<msikma> Hey there
<klepas> my dapper disks arrived today :)
<klepas> i love them
<klepas> the edubuntu ones especially
<klepas> and they did a brilliant job for the Kubuntu cover too... very unique :)
<klepas> http://klepas.org/2006/06/26/the-bird-has-arrived/
<klepas> :)
<msikma> Ohh nice
<lapo> I'm on some icons for crux theme revamp, suggestions appreciated
<lapo> http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/folderx.png
<troy_s> what are you doing your icon work in, lapo?
<lapo> do you mean which program I use?
<troy_s> yes
<lapo> inkscape at this stage, later gimp to touch up the bitmaps
<troy_s> wonderful.
<troy_s> This is sarcasm correct?  It is the default logo for Konq more or less... <klepas> and they did a brilliant job for the Kubuntu cover too... very unique :)
<kwwii> actually yes it is very sarcastic
<kwwii> as the defualt logo for konqi is much better than the crap used on the cd cover
<kwwii> I already complained to mark about the art on the cover
<lapo> why not three people hand in hand with gears on the head  :-)
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> yeah
<klepas> one last exam to go
<klepas> then i am free
<klepas> [for three and a half weeks :( ] 
<kwwii> hehe, good luck
<klepas> zwei stunden mathe test morgen...
<klepas> naja, heute, es is' ja schon 1:20 am morgen
<klepas> dan schlaffe ich erst ein mal - tschuess :)
<kwwii> tchuess
<troy_s> Greetings
<troy_s> Who lives?
<weidel> cheer
<weidel> cheers even
<weidel> :)
<troy_s> greetings weidel
<troy_s> how are you?
<weidel> Hey there, I'm good. Slapped together a desktop-bg
<weidel> comments? http://www.weidel.se/gfx/desktop2%201400.png
<troy_s> sorry weidel... getting some business done in background
<troy_s> missed your type
<troy_s> that is awsome.
<troy_s> very very slick
<troy_s> although we are going to try and wrangle the palette back into the spec colors.
<weidel> thanks, I wanted to replace my standard one in ubuntu with something fresher but still "ubuntu" :)
<troy_s> that is top notch, what an addition to the team
<weidel> thanks a bunch, mate :)
<troy_s> weidel, do you know the four specs that we have targetted for edgy?
<weidel> Speaking of which, the logo-style is what I would've wished the human icons to be like.. But that discussion I've been scared away from through the mail list, heh
<weidel> no, please fill me in
<troy_s> weidel:  right now we all need to focus on working together -- not fracturing
<weidel> quite true
<troy_s> weidel, this means that everyone needs to contribute their artistic abilities to each area, not segment into 'xxx does icons' 'yyy does splashes' etc.
<troy_s> hence the traditional discontinuity across the board.
<troy_s> weidel, to that end, there are four specs at launchpad.
<troy_s> that are set to awaiting approval
<weidel> right, surfing there now
<troy_s> from there, you can take a look at the process at the wiki
<weidel> ..still trying to get grips of the launchpad
<weidel> :)
<troy_s> launchpad is pretty easy, and a howto is in the works (well there is one quickie at the wiki, but far from extensive)
<weidel> ah, found the sort-by-release thingiemajig :)
<troy_s> ?
<weidel> in the feature spec list
<troy_s> if you also visit the ubuntu-art team page, there is a spec link that takes you to all the specs assigned to the ubuntu-art team.
<troy_s> which is a quick 'filter' approach.
<weidel> ah thanks
<troy_s> weidel, you regged your nick obviously if you are here, correct?
<weidel> on the irc-server?
<troy_s> yes
<troy_s> on nickserv
<weidel> That might not be so, I just connected via gimp. Might be a good idea to do so, yeah
<troy_s> gaim you mean.  yah... you should try adding xchat.
<troy_s> it is a little more versatile
<weidel> gaim.. right. :)
<troy_s> gaim is a great starting point
<troy_s> but most use xchat
<weidel> I'll look into it
<weidel> been a couple of years since I frequented IRC
<troy_s> ditto
<weidel> well, regged now
<troy_s> good.
<kwwii> oops, frank sent a mail even though mark told us to wait :-(
<troy_s> frank should have sent hte mail
<troy_s> we have to get working
<troy_s> i encouraged him to.
<troy_s> because the art council will not be selected until we have passed too far in the cycle.
<kwwii> erm, I missed anything you said, my network was down
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> i said that frank needed to get the mail out so that everyone can get up to speed with the process.
<troy_s> as we only have one week to finish that first phase.
<troy_s> and the art council issues will not get resolved in time.
<kwwii> good point, but I would have perhaps told mark that before posting
<kwwii> but oh well, it is done now
<troy_s> i think he was going to wait, but personally, we only have a week.
<troy_s> and missing deadlines right out of the gate would very much start us off on a bad limp
<bersace> troy_s: do you like ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/4%2e10?action=show
<lapo> ciao
<troy_s> its all coming together nicely
<troy_s> frank should be posting his explanation of the first phase.
<troy_s> greetings doctormo
<doctormo> hey
<doctormo> hows things?
<troy_s> great thank yo
<troy_s> you
<troy_s> yourself?
* troy_s naps.
<doctormo> troy_s: good, managed to export 10 copies of ubuntu onto friends and people I know with my cd covers. fab eh
<bersace> good night all and congratulations to our new leaders :)
<troy_s> greetings frank
<troy_s> do you like tropic?
<fschoep> hey troy
<fschoep> I'm not sure yet. I think it could be a nice separate theme, but it needs a bit more work to convince me right now.
<troy_s> laf.
<kwwii> hey frank
<troy_s> laf.
<fschoep> Hey Kenneth.
<fschoep> I can not use PMs yet, apologies for this.
<troy_s> register yer nick
<troy_s> it takes all of two seconds.
<kwwii> one other thing that we need to work on for kubuntu-edgy is the help system and a few app start pages (the kde apps and help start pages are all the same)
<fschoep> kwwii - in what regard is the "sameness" a problem?
<kwwii> it is good that they are the same, so it is less work, I meant
<fschoep> OK, I think I missed some of the conversation, no problem.
<fschoep> Guys, I'm going to sleep. Goodnight to you all and see you soon!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-27
* kwwii goes to bed
<troy_s> egads
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<kwwii> moin
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi
<Seveas> troy_s/kwwii: You can now op yourselves in here via chanserv
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> I mean, I try, but it doesn't work
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> :-)
<Seveas> heeh
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by kwwii
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
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* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> greetings all
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o kwwii]  by troy_s
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> greeting bersace
<bersace> hello troy
<troy_s> dborg == holbach?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> dholbach = Daniel Holbach
<Seveas> dborg = Daniel Borgmann (sp?) of clearlooks fame
<troy_s> ah.
<troy_s> thanks for sorting out that chanserv issue seveas
<Seveas> np
<Seveas> you should be able to add users to chanserv now too
<fschoep> troy_s: you there?
<fschoep> kwwii: you there?
<kwwii> fschoep: yepp, just came back
<kwwii> I answered your mail :-)
<fschoep> You did? OK, I'll receive your reply pretty soon then :-)
<fschoep> I wrote a draft for the e-mail to kick-off the Ponder phase.
<fschoep> I wanted to ask you to proofread it and check for omissions.
<kwwii> cool, send it my way
<fschoep> Done!
<Who_> Where will we be submitting too (or should I just wait for the email?)
<kwwii> Who_: you will have to fax a copy to my mother
<kwwii> :p
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-28
<Who_> great :) - she an art critic then :P?
<fschoep> Who_ - basically get it out on the list and I'll try to get everything in good shape on the Wiki.
<Who_> wow, that makes things easy :)
<fschoep> I will apply some filtering so that bad ideas don't end up taking too much time.
<Who_> ponder is where you want 'back of napkin' stuff, right?
<fschoep> But I'm all ears right now.
<fschoep> Who_ that is "Propose"
<fschoep> We're first going to look for textures, materials and colors for the theme.
<kwwii> frank, one queston though....the general direction of Human is already pretty much fixed, or?
<fschoep> One thing Mark requested is we use "glass".
<kwwii> so certain things cannot simply be turned upside down
<Who_> yea, I'd like to know that :)
<Who_> this is Icons or GTK?
<fschoep> kwwii indeed - but for instance the "glass" thing can be applied to Human.
<kwwii> true
<fschoep> Who_ this will be for the usplash (if possible), login manager screen, login splash and wallpaper.
<Who_> okay :)
<Who_> how muich flexibility is there to add a second colour to Human GTK?
<fschoep> It might influence the GTK theme as well.
<fschoep> I think there is not much space to maneuver, brown / orange is the safest bet.
<Who_> I have just maed some Ubuntu text that uses the colours straight from the folder icon - it's not perfect but it is glassy :)
<Who_> I am loving black/orange on my system here, but brown and orange is cool :)
<fschoep> But you can apply a texture to pretty much any color, you could even have blue sand if you wanted to, so we can use water ripples as a texture in a brown scheme.
<Who_> yea. I was playing with Fyre+Gimp this evening and have a cool orange/(very dark) brown wallpaper
<fschoep> We don't necessarily have to include extra textures, but great ideas are welcome. The glass thing is pretty much in already and we're looking for other ideas we can include.
<kwwii> fschoep: corrected version sent
<fschoep> Oh dear.
<fschoep> It came out with '>' quotes in front.
<fschoep> Should I look for those '^' signs for corrections?
<kwwii> yepp
<fschoep> OK, great.
<kwwii> :-)
<fschoep> I applied the three(?) corrections, is it good to send it out now?
<kwwii> I think so
<fschoep> We need to get started somewhere I suppose.
<kwwii> but I wonder how much will really come out of this phase
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> if we do not try, we will never know
<fschoep> We'll just wait and see. I'll be on the ball tomorrow and onwards.
<kwwii> cool
<fschoep> I didn't seem to get your reply on my mail about the studio, did it get lost in the shuffle?
<Who_> Has anyone got time to offer some advice on the glassy logo text?
<kwwii> I resent it, just in case
<Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/glasslogo.png
<kwwii> Who_: artistically?
<Who_> yea :)
<Who_> (I meant 'the glassy logo text I just tried to make' not _the_ glassy logo text
<kwwii> Who_: the very top of the glass effect shold be lighter than the bottom of it (the rounded line)
<Who_> you mean the outline?
<kwwii> so the glass effect should be lightest at the very tip
<kwwii> top
<kwwii> no, I mean the fill
<fschoep> Kenneth - thanks dude!
<Who_> ohh, okay
<kwwii> although the outline should be like that as well
<fschoep> I will send the Ponder kickoff within a few minutes, then I'll be sleeping (bad timing). Tomorrow morning I'm going to wade through all the submissions.
<kwwii> to make it look really realistic
<Who_> yes, I see. I was copying Human folder icon, which does it the same way round as I have in the logo. I
<kwwii> fschoep: cool, see you tomorrow
<fschoep> kwwii: sleep tight, see you tomorrow.
<Who_> bye
<kwwii> fschoep: I will
<fschoep> Goodnight everyone :-)
<kwwii> Who_: hrm , never seen that before
<Who_> but it is like that, I'm not going mad?
<kwwii> but as one of the people who made crystal, I do know a lot about glass effects :p
<Who_> indeed!
<kwwii> Who_: to be honest, I only have KDE running now
* kwwii is installing another test machine tomorrow with Gnome
<Who_> kwwii: I'm struggling with the outline, actually. Is it best to make it semi transparent or just an opaque gradient?
<kwwii> I guess with such a simple form, it would be better to make the top an opaque gradient
<kwwii> ok, time for me to hit the hay as well
<kwwii> see you all tomorrw
<troy_s> greetz
<Who_> hi troy
<Who_> any advice on this?
<Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/glasslogo1.png
<troy_s> heyas who
<troy_s> colour palette aside (i believe we are heading back into the palette spectrum listed as default), i think it is very well done.
<troy_s> works into that gloss that weidel posted on the wallpaper.
<troy_s> very professional looking.
<Who_> I used _exactly_ the same colours as the Human folder icon - are these likely to change?
<troy_s> no
<Who_> the brows don't really lend themselves to glass
<Who_> *browns
<troy_s> but i think the goal is to tweak the entire palette back towards the brownish/orange
<troy_s> yes...
<troy_s> which is why we need to be creative.
<troy_s> its very slick though.
<troy_s> try monochroming it to your eyes, and see if you can trigger something else.
<troy_s> further still...
<troy_s> be thinking about what to do with a wallpaper integrating that kind of gloss.
<Who_> kwwii had a hand in giving me som crystal coaching :)
<troy_s> the problem is that a wallpaper needs to be rather large
<troy_s> its very slick
<Who_> :P that'll be up in 10 mins
<troy_s> large wallpaper / logon splash means that a single band might not be the most effective means of glossing... just throwing it out there... someone might be able to work around that limitation.
<troy_s> avoid branding
<troy_s> for the time being
<Who_> in fact, looking at it now, it doesn't really 'integrate' :(
<troy_s> which means it needs to feel distinctively ubuntu
<Who_> well, what I've got isn't going to cut it. But it is cool :P
<troy_s> in a different way (possibly texture, but mark hasn't developed a terrific artistic language for communicating just yet :) )
<Who_> I'll put it up soon and you can see what I mean
<troy_s> it DOES actually feel right with the icons
<troy_s> you seen the reference page that bersace made?
<Who_> yea :), that's the idea
<troy_s> it is very handy
<Who_> oh, no, can you link me?
<troy_s> also bear in mind that i blieve frank is going to dial down the orange of the window borders etc... back into spectrum
<troy_s> yeah hold.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/
<troy_s> He has done some terrific work collecting all the bits...
<troy_s> it is great to hold next to your output and compare with the integration factor.
<troy_s> i would monochrome it and ship it to frank though.  the problem with colour too early is that it is very limiting regarding inspirational impact.
<troy_s> i think that is a possible direction for the logon splash branding, although i suspect we will go smaller (judging from the existing usplash)
<Who_> I will mail monochrome and normal to the list :)
<Who_> I think we can use a brown panel bg image
<Who_> perhaps
<Who_> brown and slightly glassy
<Who_> I have black and slightly glassy at the moment and I love it
<Who_> troy: any future? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/FyreTextures
<troy_s> sorry
<troy_s> i have been trying to gather all the vids
<troy_s> crap
<troy_s> 9,000,000,000 phone calls all of a sudden
<troy_s> sorry who... let me look brother.
<troy_s> fyre is darn nice isn't it?
<troy_s> yah i like that particular look... have you seen the two i poked out in an hour or two?
<troy_s> you there Who_ ?
<Who_> yea, I'm here
<Who_> which two?
<Who_> yea, fyre is wicked!
<troy_s> hold.
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/DapperLook
<troy_s> different caramel twist.
* troy_s is out
<troy_s> Who_, although your fyre texture is interesting because it is triggering some sort of old cartographer's map idea...
<troy_s> i'll do some hunting...
<Who_> yea, troy_s, they're nice!
<Who_> caramel is more ubuntu-friendly
<Madpilot> hi all
<troy_s> greetz mad
<Madpilot> hi troy_s - nice compiling Inkscape article - might have to try that later tonight, because 0.44 looks very shiny...
<troy_s> yep... people are really stepping up to the plate
<troy_s> its nice to see.
<troy_s> hey bersace
<bersace> hey troy_s
<bersace> :)
<bersace> troy_s: WTF is doing viper with its themes !
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> well to each their own...
<troy_s> is he clogging up incoming?
<troy_s> send him a polite email perhaps.
<troy_s> hey jsgotangco
<troy_s> how you doing?
<jsgotangco> hi!
<jsgotangco> not bad, just had a series of unfortunate events at home (well my car specifically)
<troy_s> uh oh
<troy_s> what happened jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> my car alarm got busted so the car wont start i discovered it around 8pm at my office building
<troy_s> hey that's great
<jsgotangco> so i had to take a taxi home and had someone fix it up today
<troy_s> super fun
<jsgotangco> at least it didnt get stalled in the middle of nowhere
<troy_s> what are you up to bersace?
<PseudoPlacebo> Goodnight, ya'll.
<bersace> PseudoPlacebo: 'night
<bersace> troy_s: i'm hardly working on gnome scanning
<bersace> creating Preview widget
<bersace> and other backend stufs
<bersace> i didn't touch Kubuntu
<troy_s> cool is that for gnome scan?
<troy_s> and it is 'i'm working hard'  hardly working means that you are barely working :)
<bersace> troy_s: yes, gnome scan
<bersace> sorry
<bersace> that a "fake friend"
<bersace> i'm doing hardcore work !
<troy_s> laf
<Madpilot> isn't English fun? ;)
<bersace|code> hate it sometimes
<troy_s> can't blame you
<Madpilot> yeah - it's my native language, and the only one I speak fluently, and it's still a confusing mess
<troy_s> going to try and compile the new gimp
<troy_s> got inkscape on the move
<troy_s> from cvs
* bersace|code dream about esperanto
<AndyFitz> troy_s we use svn for inkscape ;-)
<troy_s> yah
<troy_s> its done
<troy_s> gimp is cvs
<troy_s> though.
<troy_s> :)
<lapo> hi
<waky> hello
<waky> =)
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork - Specs at launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs - KEEP PONDER LOOSE
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> greetings all.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome.  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork - Specs at http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs - KEEP PONDER LOOSE - Please read the description of the phase.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<lapo> hi
<Who_> hi lapo
<lapo> yo Who_
<troy_s> greetings
<troy_s> Who_?
<troy_s> cyanescent?
<cyanescent> heya
<cyanescent> ;-)
<troy_s> How you doing Niel?
<cyanescent> just writing up that howto
<cyanescent> tired... much to much work lately
<troy_s> for speccing and such?
<cyanescent> javol
<troy_s> If it is for Launch, try adding it to that one I started off the root of the wiki
<troy_s> HowToLaunchpad maybe?  Can't remember.
<cyanescent> oh ok...
<cyanescent> will do
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadHowTo
<troy_s> Who_, I added your fire texture to that main texture page.  Makes it easier to scan them all.
<troy_s> Makes me think that perhaps we shoudl sample that Breezy wallpaper and work towards a 'mystical' feel.
<Who_> which breezy wallpaper
<Who_> ?
<Who_> troy_s: yea, I saw it today, thanks
<cyanescent> I think I have been very confused by these implementation status fields
<Who_> that wallpaper that was made with the eft texture looks great!
<troy_s> the breezy one with the spirals of mystic look
<troy_s> cyanescent, you aren't the only one :)
<cyanescent> can you enlighten me
<Who_> hmm, I don't remember it...
<troy_s> cyanescent, its a learning curve for everyone.
<troy_s> cyanescent, to the best of my knowledge, unless we are solely able to implement them (such as the wiki), they are best left for approval at the summit, then we can track them 'officially'
<troy_s> for example, it doesn't do anyone any good to have Blah pick up and start making mouse cursors -- because that would imply that the work is getting done authoritatively
<troy_s> and without consulting and development, the resulting product will not likely be included
<troy_s> make sense?>
<cyanescent> there are 8 specs for the edgy final ?
<troy_s> frank is liasing on that.
<troy_s> as far as i know, from what i talked to mark
<troy_s> we have exactly FOUR specs for edgy
<troy_s> the usplash, lsplash, logon, wallpaper
<cyanescent> yes... can see the point. But if we've got a dozen specs for all these braindumps already, then shouldn't we tell the admin about them ?
<troy_s> now frank will probably get permission to tweak the window colours as well...
<troy_s> well the braindumps are really for the NEXT cycle... basically everyone should get their ideas in, then when we have a new summit we have tangible stuff to consider for targetting for the next cycle... make sense?
<troy_s> that isn't to say that we won't get a few minor specs finished, but the larger goals need to be approved.
<troy_s> (which frank is working on)
<cyanescent> ok, I didn't realise we needed a howto for the whole ubuntu crowd -- the url you gave me is for the root of the wiki
<troy_s> well i just put it there for people who were interested
<troy_s> it wasn't in particular to the artwork stuff...
<cyanescent> k..
<troy_s> perhaps we need to look at it and think it thru.
<troy_s> hard to say.
<cyanescent> whatever... should I bother with writing more specs on these braindumps in the wiki?
<troy_s> Let the people who suggest them post them
<troy_s> because if they can't be bothered to write up a cohesive wiki page on how to implement it with samples etc
<troy_s> then it probably isn't worth following up on
<troy_s> certainly add your own
<troy_s> with good wiki entries...
<troy_s> we have a pretty good selection that need further development too.
<cyanescent> liked those fire things
<cyanescent> heh
<cyanescent> nothing like some plugin magic
<Who_> plugins?
<troy_s> gimp has a fyre plugin
<troy_s> if you didn't know who
<troy_s> it is very cool for selecting a direction
<Who_> I didn't - I've been using fyre
<troy_s> try it in gimp
<troy_s> i think it is under render
<Who_> I will :)
<troy_s> it lets you choose what direction you want to go by clicking, instead of numbers.
<troy_s> very cool... frank showed me
<Who_> similar to clicking and dragging the page on fyre?
<troy_s> i think it would be nice to try and use what fyre is doing as a sort of starting point, and evolve it into some form of more mystical feeling etc
<troy_s> who:  better... you 'steer' the product by clicking on images that meet your liking.
<Who_> I agree. everyone 'in the nkow' sees fyre renders and says 'oh, well, I can do that...'
<troy_s> something about that fyre texture that might work if we use it as some sort of mystical fyreball type path...
<Who_> yea, it also looks like the Human browser icon
<troy_s> i agree that they look great, but we need to distinct it... which is why i was googling for african based mysticism etc.
<troy_s> something that we could implement that is distinct, but heading in that direction
<troy_s> further, we need to accomodate some way to get that glossy feel into the images to homogonize the look.
<Who_> I have to say I find glossy and fire pretty much at odds
<cyanescent> I think you should use it as simply that: a texture
<troy_s> we have 'glossy' thus far, but we could easily add 'magical', 'mystical', 'sweeping' etc...  all useful words when you are trying to steer a group of people towards a distinct goal.
<Who_> Did Mark say anything about nature backgrounds?
<cyanescent> it's all great as backgrounds go... but it's very similar to the existing background
<troy_s> Who_, yep initially that seems the case, but that's what creativity is for :)
<troy_s> cyanescent, explain?
<Who_> yea, cyanescent, I don't think it is very similar at all
<troy_s> Who_, no.  but i do like the idea... osx has a good selection of animal textures etc.  perhaps there is a way to create a hybrid that is simple and yet elegant.
<cyanescent> iwell... you could build some sort of a 3d model, with afrikan symbols, and paste the fyre texture ontop
<Who_> (that sounded almost jeering when I read it back! sorry)
<cyanescent> or behind... or whatever
<troy_s> cyanescent, the existing background is sort of trying to be osx
<troy_s> anyone good with blender?
<Who_> troy_s: _trying_ :P
<cyanescent> ok-ish
<troy_s> blender might be a great way to integrate all of this sort of stuff into a good look
<cyanescent> but my computer is crap
<troy_s> for example
<Who_> never used it!
<cyanescent> better at 4dsmax
<cyanescent> sorry3ds
<troy_s> if we build on wiedel's complex sort of gloss -- which is sort of like the simple who_ gloss made more complicated -- we might be able to come up with some sort of interesting fresh look
<troy_s> blender is pretty damn powerful... www.elephantsdream.org
<cyanescent> not quite sure what the goal is for though ?
<cyanescent> do you wnat a background ?
<troy_s> it is to ultimately select a set of words really...
<troy_s> for example, mark got us started by saying that he would have liked to elaborate on the glossy look of the gdm logon splash (look on the page et made as a summary)
<troy_s> which means that our designs should somehow integrate gloss
<troy_s> from there, we need to think of the different types of gloss -- there is simple specular (like Who's logo)
<troy_s> complex specular (like wiedels)
<troy_s> diffuse varied (like the vinyl chair -- meaning that some sort of varied bumps need to be established logically on a background to implment it in some way)
<cyanescent> hmmm.... it's ok to see it this way, but ultimately icons are icons, and not textures
<troy_s> specular varied (like hte snake skin...)
<troy_s> icons are icons, but if you look, you will see the gloss on the home folder
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> and they all need to integrate into a cohesive whole
<troy_s> which means that you need guiding rules to build on...
<troy_s> i would say that Who_'s logo fits well against that icon, for example, and that is simply using the 'gloss' adjective.
<cyanescent> yeh.. righto
<troy_s> if we don't lay down the guideing words/ideas/motifs, then we are at that lovely point where everyone takes a dart, throws it randomly, then posts their idea.
<troy_s> we need the more formalized structured approach to development -- guided creativity.
<cyanescent> I will look into doing some 3d thing with the fyre stuff, and some symbology I picked up in london recently
<troy_s> great
<cyanescent> maybe it will look nice... maybenot
<troy_s> if everyone can try to build on what other's have already triggered, who knows
<cyanescent> 'k I need a kip
<troy_s> the point is, you shouldn't worry about it looking good or not... a good artist will be able to extract the decent elements and elaborate on them.
<troy_s> i need a nap
<troy_s> la.f
<cyanescent> yah
<cyanescent> see you
* troy_s out for a bit.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-29
<viper550> I'm trying to get Gimmie included with Edgy
<troy_s> Gimmie?
<jsgotangco> wow that's pretty radical for edgy even
<troy_s> wtf is gimmie?
<jsgotangco> http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:dVqv2BZzXpoJ:www.beatniksoftware.com/gimmie/+gimmie&hl=tl&gl=ph&ct=clnk&cd=2
<jsgotangco> (the original site exceeded its bandwidth)
<jsgotangco> http://beatnik.infogami.com/Gimmie
<Who_> Isn't the developer of that out of work at the moment?
<Who_> some full time employment with canonical could bring Gimmie along fast, and bring Ubuntu some more really original code :P
<jsgotangco> i dont see it giving great value to the distro so much as compared to something like smart that would warrant funding for development
<Who_> true
<Who_> It is written in Python though, so it's got a good chance :P
<Who_> Anyone using it?
<jsgotangco> ive only used it once
<Who_> and...?
<jsgotangco> its nice for sure
<Who_> I think I'll have to leave trying it for another night. Bed is calling me (with oh, such a sweet voice)
<Who_> bye all,
<jsgotangco> but then no one made spec for including it
<Who_> is it too late?
<troy_s> what is smart?
<jsgotangco> http://labix.org/smart
<jsgotangco> canonical has been funding development of smart since last year
<troy_s> who lives?
* jsgotangco lives!
<troy_s> so what happened with smart?
<troy_s> it wasn't on the spec agenda at the summit was it?
<jsgotangco> yes it was
<troy_s> really?
<jsgotangco> well mvo is pretty heavily involved with smart
<troy_s> who is mvo?
<jsgotangco> michael vogt
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> he's the apt fellow, no?
<jsgotangco> yep we also did gnome-app-install along with sebastian heinlein
<troy_s> ah
<troy_s> do you know much about the gdm logon transparency technique?
<jsgotangco> hmm no sorry
<jsgotangco> :/
<troy_s> crappers
<lapo> hi
<waky> hello
<klepas> moinmoin
<klepas> bersace: ping
<bersace> hello
<klepas> bersace|code: how has the wiki been going?
<bersace|code> nothing
<bersace|code> i'm working hard on gnome-scan
<bersace|code> so ubuntu-art is quite paused for me
<klepas> fair enough
<bersace|code> see CategoryArtwork to see what is migrated to the new tree
<klepas> i'm getting some time as of tomorrow evening
<klepas> i'd be happy to continue from where-ever you left off :)
<klepas> thanks
<bersace|code> klepas: i did a lot of review in Archives
<bersace|code> you may want to do some review for Kubunut 5.10, 6.06 LTS and Edubuntu 6.06
<bersace|code> i can sent you the tools i use to make screenshots and icons preview
<klepas> i'll stick to redoing text at the moment
<bersace|code> klepas: there are some indication to write in some pages such as Artwork/Specs, Artwork/Archives and Artwork/Incomings to help people
<klepas> sure
<troy_s> the message at art.ubuntu.com is a bit colloquial.
<klepas> troy_s: it doesn't have to be formal does it?
<kwwii> troy_s: who wrote that?
<kwwii> it sounds like an official "we don't want you"
<klepas> i did
<klepas> =S
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> a bit too formal, I think
<kwwii> the intent is good, but the wording could be lighter
<klepas> do we really need to change it..? =\
<kwwii> anyway...gotta pick up my kid form guitar class
<kwwii> bbl
<troy_s> there is a difference between colloquialisms, friendliness, etc.
<klepas> well art.ubuntu.com is visited by many, many people
<troy_s> correction:  it is much better than it wasy
<klepas> i think some formality for a formal site could do
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> i agree 100%, you did a great job.
<troy_s> just re-read it.
<klepas> good-o
<troy_s> it was a little 'loose' initially, now it looks very top notch.
<troy_s> nice work
<troy_s> only thing i can think of is perhaps provide a means for folks to get involved
<troy_s> as in the wiki starting point or something.
* troy_s is out.
<mhb> I am sorry for such a lame question, but does the Ubuntu artwork team create some art for Kubuntu as well? Or what team does that?
<kwwii> yepp, we doo
<kwwii> in fact, I do
<mhb> that's great :o)
<kwwii> mhb: until now they are totally seperate (and the artwork itself will not be the same) but we want to try and make the artwork in a bigger group for this release
<kwwii> I did pretty much everything by myself for dapper
<kwwii> there is also xubuntu, they need artwork too
<mhb> kwwii: really? Well then I have to thank you for all the great work
<mhb> kwwii: where do the Kubuntu artwork discussions take place?
<kwwii> here, and on the mailing list
<mhb> kwwii: I started to read the Ubuntu artwork ML a few days ago and it's almost 100% Ubuntu discussions
<kwwii> yepp, because until now, I am the only kubuntu artist
<kwwii> no need for me to discuss thing with myself :-)
<mhb> kwwii: OK, thank you very much :o) If I have some ideas about the Kubuntu artwork I'll post them to the Ubuntu-artwork ML, then.
<kwwii> my email address is wimer at kde dot org , if you'd like to discuss anything privately as well
<kwwii> but the ML is the best place for general discussion
<mhb> kwwii: Sorry for bothering you but I have one more question - is there a website with a basic design roadmap for Kubuntu Edgy? I'd love to RTFM about Kubuntu artwork a bit...
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> mhb: not really...I jsut kinda did what I wanted :p
<kwwii> mnb: basically, it has to fit to the other graphics that are already in kde
<kwwii> I take care of the kde artwork as well (and I am on the oxygen icon team)
<kwwii> seen oxygen yet?
<kwwii> oxygen-icons.org (also in kde svn)
<mhb> kwwii: only some previews on their pages ...
<kwwii> that is pretty much the future of kde graphics
<kwwii> of course, for kubuntu we want to make artwork that fits to kde, but also kinda fits with ubuntu and the other *buntus
<mhb> kwwii: do you think Oxygen icon set will make it into Edgy?
<kwwii> so that when you see an ubuntu and a kubuntu next to each other you know that they are related
<kwwii> mhb: not too sure about that
<kwwii> since we only have 4 months
<kwwii> I do have a spec on launchpad which says we want to use them, but I am not sure if we will get it done in time
<kwwii> and oxygen is really for kde4 anyway
<kwwii> mhb: feel free to bother me as much as you like :-) it is great to find someone who wants to work on kubuntu artwork!
<kwwii> you are from the czech republic?
<mhb> kwwii: yes
<kwwii> I live about an hour from the czech border (in germany)
<kwwii> anyway...don't hesitate to ask any questions, and know that we'd love your help
<kwwii> I was appointed "artist in chief" for kubuntu, now I need some artists to be the chief of :p
<newz2000> I have some thoughts about improving the human gtk theme, but don't know where to put them. Should that go on launchpad, and if so, what is the correct way to do that?
<kwwii> post any ideas to the ml, but note that we are not really in that phase yet
<kwwii> if the idea is a technical consideration, go right ahead
<newz2000> ok. Isn't the gtk theme a todo for edgy?
<kwwii> yes, it is...but if you look at the wiki you'll see the plan for edgy
<kwwii> anyway...go ahead and post it to the ML
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan
<kwwii> we are trying to work in an organized fashion this time :p
<newz2000> ok. Do you forsee there soon being some "here's how to use launchpad" for the art-team documentation?
<kwwii> hehe, I wish
<kwwii> launchpad is confusing even to me
<newz2000> kwwii: are you one of the people keeping the wiki updated?
<kwwii> actually, that would be bersace|code, niel or pascal
<newz2000> ah, ok.
<kwwii> I am drawing butterfly for printing on posters and I HATE IT!!!!
<Chewie> Hi
<Chewie> I got a legal question. The Ubuntu Logo is subject to trademark policy (http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy/). However, it's included in the package "ubuntu-artwork", whose copyright says its contents are licensed under Creative Commons. Is this an incoherence or am I missing something?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-30
<troy_s> that's a good question chewie
<troy_s> i would ask it on the mailing list.
<kwwii> hi
<mhb> kwwii: hello
<lapo> hi
<mhb> um ... is there any official/unofficial Kubuntu theme for Mozilla Firefox?
<kwwii> there is a crystal version, so I guess that would be the best to use
<mhb> kwwii: I'll try to add the spinning Kubuntu logo ( like Konqueror has) to Plastikfox and maybe I'll post the theme somewhere ... I dunno
<kwwii> cool :-)
<kwwii> post it to the ML and/or send me a copy :-)
<troy_s> its great when people talk out of their bottoms
<troy_s> you in ken?
<troy_s> kwwii?
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome.  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork - Specs at http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs - 1 WEEK TILL' PROPOSALS - GIT YER LOOSE IDEAS IN
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> hey weidel
<troy_s> how goes it?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-01
<kwwii> sleep now
<Who_> troy_s: hi
<Who_> Has anyone seen the edgy usplash?
<troy_s> you can upgrade to edgy to see it...
<troy_s> from what i have seen of it, it was franks minimalist usplash
<troy_s> without text etc
<Who_> oh, cool :)
<troy_s> who, do you have a relatively high resolution version of your logo font?
<Who_> the glassy one?
<troy_s> i was going to zoom in and attach it to the textures page
<troy_s> yes
<Who_> it's SVG, so I can do whatever you want!
<troy_s> as a sample of a different version of glassy
<troy_s> great
<troy_s> ok... ship me it.
<Who_> I said I'd upload the SVG, actually! oops
<Who_> I'll put it on the wiki
<troy_s> well i want to do a zoom crop
<troy_s> so that the whole logo isn't there...
<troy_s> take a look at the textures page and zoom in on a glassy part of it
<troy_s> as i did with weidel's logo
<Who_> okie, will do :)
<troy_s> also -- i updated the specs for wallpaper and borrowed your work on the wiki
<Who_> I'll put it straight up on the textures page, if you'd like
<troy_s> you can torch that page now if you want.
<troy_s> sure...
<troy_s> just make sure you zoom in close on the glossyness
<troy_s> show only a portion of a few letters
<Who_> yea, I saw - great - didn't think to put it on the spec :P
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> yah it is going to take some migration of thoughts
<troy_s> to really utilize what ubuntu has in place for us
<Who_> yea, I'll say
<Who_> I posted my first spec today
<Who_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/nautilus-sidebar-extensions
<troy_s> we also need someone to step up an dpost henriks request
<troy_s> with related wiki page
<Who_> oh yea.
<troy_s> that's a good looking proposal
<Who_> I can do that, perhaps not tonight, but before tomorrow night (it's 2AM here now)
<troy_s> the more people actually sit and bang out the ideas into worded form, the more likely people will take notice.
<troy_s> good practice
<troy_s> at least you are working within the structure.
<troy_s> that's positive.
<Who_> as in it looks 'pretty' or it looks like a reasonable idea?
<troy_s> many people are now, but we really need our team to get in line
<troy_s> it is a reasonable idea AND it looks like a good spec
<Who_> well :P let's hope others think so :)
<troy_s> yes... next step is to make sure people get subscribed to it
<troy_s> which means tracking down A) the related developer point-man
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> can you dcc me that logo bro?
<troy_s> or are you going to 330 crop it to jpg and plop it on the textures?
<Who_> I'm not sure that the kind of organisational structure suits all artists - I think the middle ground we have where the part-time canonical employees work closely with Launchpad 'mediating' between it and the team is good
<Who_> oh, sorry, it's wikid now
<troy_s> that's the plan
<troy_s> oh great
<troy_s> the reality is that professional development doesn't just 'plop' in from the sky
<Who_> I am going to crop it an put it on the textures page, if you're OK with that?
<troy_s> totally... its everyone's wiki
<troy_s> i prefer it when people step up
<troy_s> unfortunately, the open source community has sort of thrived on the 'sole guy steps up and gets job done' but that doesn't work for
<troy_s> a homogonized looking product
<Who_> SpecLifeCycle
<Who_> oops!
<troy_s> nor professional looking... it can have elements... but it never really hits 'top notch polished' look and feel because the singular approach doesn't work well in that respect.
<Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GlassyLogo?action=AttachFile there is the file if you want it for future ref
<troy_s> (aside from maybe picasso, etc... and even those folks subjected themselves to peer review.
<Who_> I was looking at SLED and I think that is _very_ polished - how is that developed
<troy_s> i believe the best quote i had on that was "Art created in a vaccuum, when exposed to the outside, tends to suck."
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> sled?
<troy_s> point me to a link?
<Who_> I was thinking of writing a little critique of SLED if I can install it - because I genuinely believe it sets the benchmark for great art
<troy_s> can you point me?
<Who_> lol - good quote!
<troy_s> don't get me wrong -- individuals can always create good looking art, but to really elevate it, you need to subject it to polishing and peer review.
<troy_s> that's just a simple fact
<troy_s> hence why studios spend big bucks on polishing scripts/art/edits/creative blah
<troy_s> they take the fundamental idea, and tweak the elements.
<Who_> osvids.com has a SLED10 screenshot
<troy_s> suse linux?
<Who_> yea, final polish makes a big difference
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> i know that kwwii was the single art guy at suse for 6 years
<troy_s> or so...
<Who_> Novell Linux, really, it is different to SUSE in some ways
<troy_s> i don't know their structure now.
<troy_s> ya, it probably has a team... but i would need to look at the bulk of the material.
<Who_> the whole openSUSE thing
<troy_s> apple has jonathen ives -- but a very large art team
<Who_> well, I know Jimmac developed Gilouche, the splash, walpaper, logon etc, but I bet there was a lot of review
<troy_s> probably.
<troy_s> again, i wouldn't look to existing open source projects because the aim is to well surpass them
<Who_> I know there was review  - his blog posts several 6 or so 'previews' he made and they selected the best bis from all of them
<Who_> If you read the reviews on SLED you may change your mind :P Some of them have been _full_ of praise for the polish on SLED10 (to be fair, it has had a long time of polishing!)
<troy_s> yes...
<troy_s> i was looking at it.
<Who_> Does Jimmac ever participate in here?
<troy_s> indeed... that is the whole process of polishing... although you can actually start far earlier than that.
<troy_s> i don't know, i haven't seen him
<troy_s> i know he idles.
<troy_s> also, the idea of using incremental building is useful when you need to subject the work to review from 'higher powers' :)
<troy_s> being sabdfl and the rest of the CC.
<Who_> indeed
<troy_s> if someone is going off on a tangent, you can steer it back in the right direction long before too much effort is dumped into it.
<Who_> oh, I still need to get a CV up online so I can link you to it. My CV hasn't been uppdated for a while!
<troy_s> needless to say, it will take some commitment and time to really get the system cooking.
<troy_s> yep
<Who_> (link you to it so you can link CC if you think fit)
<troy_s> i need as many res's as possible.
<troy_s> well i am not filtering anything
<troy_s> that isn't my responsibility, nor do i feel comfortable doing it as purely a 'collector'
<Who_> Are you adding any notes on participation in the team?
<troy_s> no, sabdfl knows full well who is doing work -- and i mean on any level.
<Who_> - oh, okay
<troy_s> writing specs is as important as kludging out some photoshopped effect laden stuff.
<Who_> indeed
<troy_s> again though, unless you have watched a creative team take something from genesis to completion, it is hard to see the machine
<Who_> I never have, do you work in creative teams?
<troy_s> yes i have.
<troy_s> and do on a regular basis.
<troy_s> also have a degree in art, which doesn't mean i am a good artist, but it does mean that i am committed to the realm professionally enough to spend five years studying it.
<troy_s> and on the upside, i have watched several different forms of creative teams get their work done, so i have a pretty good idea how similar approaches work etc.
<troy_s> did you upload that closeup yet?
<troy_s> who_?
<Who_> just done it
<Who_> looks worse close up :S
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> looks good, but i would include more of the b so that you can see the curvature
<troy_s> i think you did a very darn good job on that actually.
<Who_> thanks :)
<troy_s> but again, if you could zoom out just a bit so that we get an idea of the glassy curvature
<Who_> The ubuntu logo looks really good on black, I know I keep saying it, but can we _do_ anything about it
<troy_s> and slide offset over a smidge...
<troy_s> with me?
<Who_> I think I may just add another one that is more zoomed out...?
<troy_s> no... we are brown
<troy_s> just replace that one a
<troy_s> it is fine, just zoom out a little to reveal that highlight curve
<Who_> *Dark* brown...? :P. I know we gotta stay Human ;)
<troy_s> brown is ok though... it is quite a challenge and while most go 'uck brown' pretty sure that a lot of people went "you are going to put a swoosh on your stuff with NO text?!?!?!?!"
<troy_s> sometimes things take a bit of execution and time to become distinctive ;)
<troy_s> i think sabdfl likes the darker brown tone
<troy_s> i personally think we need to bump it up a semi-tone or so to keep it in the middle grey zone (when desated)
<Who_> I like _nice_ browns - earthy ones
<Who_> one of my housemates said "The problem with Ubuntu, is that of all the 16 million colours my monitor can display, they choose to use the ones that look _most like excrement_" :P
<troy_s> well like i said, once we get into the 2nd part of proposals... the tonal values should be clearer
<troy_s> that's just an aesthetic judgement.  culturally it is irrelevant.
<troy_s> and considering that ubuntu caters to a global client base, we need to see the bigger picture.
<Who_> yea, it was light hearted, for sure!
<Who_> Check the tectures page, see if the new one is better
<troy_s> i do agree though... a slightly lighter version would help.
<troy_s> the darks hide the icon outlines and such
<troy_s> not quite into oranges though
<Who_> whoa. Wait till I've made it 330x330 again. Oops
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> okie
<Who_> right, spectrum is green (you watched Captain Scarlet?) - texture resized
<troy_s> okie
<troy_s> that's good... you get a good sense of the curvature.
<troy_s> those nebula might be interesting for pursuing the 'magical' look of the breezy desktop
<troy_s> or was it hoary?
<troy_s> can't remember
<troy_s> its good though, there are some very talented people involved... i have high hopes for this cycle.
<troy_s> it might be good to pair up the ubuntu brown palette with a colour gradient suggestion on something you have made
<troy_s> with me?
<Who_> what's the 'with me?' about?
<Who_> the gradient suggestion - I.E put some Human browns behind the logo?
<Who_> Henrik's Spec, status = Braindump is OK?
<Who_> and am I the drafter, or do we leave that to whoever wants to do the work?
<Who_> troy_s:?
<troy_s> as in are you following me :)
<troy_s> well if you want to take the wallpaper into a certain hue, i would provide the sample against the default ubuntu palette... i believe frank is trying to take the whole set of art into that spectrum
<Who_> I see. I'll have a look
<Who_> and about the spec - shoudl I set Henrik as the aprover, or just leave all the 'people' spaces blank?
<troy_s> ubuntu-art so that it lists within our domain for now
<troy_s> thanks for doing that by the way, who
<Who_> oh, I need to edit it now :S. I didn't know I could set 'ubuntu-art as a person!
<Who_> (in fact, I did, I just didn't  twig that person=team)
<Who_> well, I probably wouldn't've thought to if you hadn't suggested it!
<Who_> wow. I sure have got some ugly stuff going on here
<jsgotangco> good morning
<Who_> It is morning here
<Who_> but I haven't slept yet :P
<Who_> (only 3 AM - to be fair)
<Who_> I am really struggling to do glassy and brown!
<Who_> jsgotangco: I see you hang out in ubuntu-devel too - are you a developer (yes, it would seem obvious, but I am not, and I sometimes listen in to devel, and I do read the devel list....)
<jsgotangco> yes im community, i mostly work on gnome-app-install, update-manager and edubuntu
<jsgotangco> also documentation
<Who_> cool :)
<Who_> you wouldn't happen to have read any specs recently, would you, maybe, ones like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NautilusSidebarExtensions
<Who_> :P
<troy_s> subtle
<jsgotangco> are you sure that's workable in 4 months
<troy_s> what time is it there jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> 10am
<troy_s> eek
<Who_> jsgotangco: I don't know - I haven't any experience of how fast OS projects progress, and I don't really know how much work is involved. I think the bits in Nautilus may be doable in 4 months, but maybe not the engines....
<Who_> like I said - I'm not experienced :)
<jsgotangco> well you can start doing stuff now but not target to edgy, but edgy+1 so you have at least 10 months worth of time
<Who_> I'm not going to be able to get far on my own... Hopefully some people will like the idea... all my coding experience is C# on Windows, and even then it's only 9 months of work...
<jsgotangco> ahh yes
<jsgotangco> but i suggest working this on upstream instead
<jsgotangco> seems natural as an upstream project
<jsgotangco> alright im out, we're heading for imax today =)
<jsgotangco> se eya
<troy_s> it looks ok
<troy_s> wrong window for you Who_
<Who_> troy_s: yea, I know
<troy_s> i think it is a great effort really...
<Who_> I didn't know you were lurking in -dvel too - rather handy actually cos it makes me look less stupid :P
<troy_s> you are really getting a handle on the pondering
<troy_s> its weird that the compression or whatever it is
<Who_> pondering to bed for me now
<troy_s> gave it a sort of cool texture
<Who_> yea, I dunno what it is
<troy_s> veryslick
<troy_s> ok get some sleep
<Who_> really, I liked it when it was smooth and blue :P
<Who_> see ya
<coz_> hello all
<troy_s> heyas guys
<troy_s> how you doing?
<troy_s> bersace, madpilot
<bersace> hello troy_s
<Madpilot> hi
<troy_s> how's gnomescan going bersace?
<bersace> very good
<troy_s> greetz
<troy_s> who lives?
<mhb> me
<mhb> :o)
<mhb> not that I'm that important :o)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-07-02
<troy_s> who is?  laf.
<mhb> troy_s: so what's cooking, doc?
<troy_s> not much thanks
<troy_s> resting my teeth
<troy_s> (wisdom teeth out yesterday)
<mhb> troy_s: btw: do you know a good tool for creating a GIF animation/rotation of an image ?
<troy_s> i think gimp will do that.
<troy_s> if you add in gimp gap
<mhb> troy_s: I tried gimp
<troy_s> you add on the animation package?
<mhb> troy_s: and the trouble is that gimp does rotating small images badly
<troy_s> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2006-03-22-012-26-OS-HL-HE
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> then use imagemagick to rotate them
<troy_s> and simply combine them all using another program
<troy_s> i even think imagemagick can compile various images into a single gif for animated purposes.
<mhb> troy_s: GIMP can too ...
<troy_s> yes but you didn't like the gimp's rotation
<troy_s> so try imagemagicks command line rotation
<mhb> troy_s: OK, I'll give it a shot
<mhb> troy_s: thank you
<troy_s> good full docs at imagemagicks site.
<troy_s> it was the tuna casserole
<klepas> mhh
<klepas> tasty (:
<troy_s> bersace
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-25
<troy_s> BHSPitLappy: Because they are just that damn on the ball.
<BHSPitLappy> Canonical FTW  \o/
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<neron> Hi folks
<neron> I`m looking for software to install on my ubuntu to print CD labels for my audio CDs. The only requirement that I have is for it to be able to read CDTEXT off my CDs so I don`t have to type in the songs. If its integrated with k3b (or other burning soft) it would be helpful but not necessary.
<neron> Does any of you guys know such software?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-26
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi
<lapo> re
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-27
<kwwii> moin
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-28
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=648429801&size=o <---hmmm
<lapo> hi
<darkmatter>  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=648899363&size=o   or  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=648899381&size=o   hmm...
<nysosym> hi there :D
<nysosym> what are the news about the artwork in gutsy?
<nothlit> i dunno if theres much
<nothlit> but kwwii is interested in any suggestions, with the caution that it may not be used
<kwwii> heard my name :-)
<kwwii> I'll be sending a mail and creating wiki pages, etc. very soon
<kwwii> I am not trying to scare anyone away from helping with the "caution it may not be used" but before I anger more people I thought it was only right
<kwwii> time for bed now, trip to scotland tomorrow
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-29
<lapo> hi there
<xsidekick409> hello
<lapo> re
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-07-01
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<Yodude> hello, can i propose something to you guys ?
<Yodude> hello
<Yodude> i have an idea for the default ubuntu theme
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-23
<coolasJon> Hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-24
<Cimi> hi kwwii
<pwnguin> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15328048/Screenshot.png
<pwnguin> anyone have ideas on how to make that screenshot nicer?
<pwnguin> for example, deluge has an svg somewhere
<BHSPitLappy> art does not work!
<coz_> hey guys I readmitted my membership last year  but dont see me listed as amember..apparenlty it didnt go through
<kwwii> coz_: the automatic unsubscribe is not something that I can change
<kwwii> :-(
<kwwii> sorry for the trouble
<coz_> kwwii, oh  well thats ok I just resubscribed again
<coz_> :)
<kwwii> :-)
<coz_> lets see if it takes this time
<coz_> kwwii, i think there may be an issue since there are two "coz' ;s  on there
<coz_> one in new york and me in pennsylvania
<kwwii> coz_: ouch, that sucks
<coz_> kwwii, yeah lol   but its no biggie   lets see if the resubscription goes through    the only thing is I have been a memeber for nearly 4 y ears  so its a bit puzzling  but  anyway   lets what happens :)
<kwwii> coz_: hrm, freaky...good luck! :p
<kwwii> let me know if there is anything I can do to help
<coz_> kwwii,   ok cool will do "_
<coz_> :)
<pwnguin> what color is the debian logo?
<Flannel> Red or red + black, depending on whether you're talking unofficial or official logo
<pwnguin> i was thinkin hex, silly
<Flannel> #D70751: http://www.debian.org/logos/
<pwnguin> i gotta say, I wish there was something close to omnigraffle
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-25
<pwnguin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jldugger/2609705494/
<pwnguin> tada
<pwnguin> comments?
<kwwii> boah, where is Cimi when you need him
<psyke83> hi
<kwwii> hi psyke83
<kwwii> btw, the dark theme and a new metacity went into the sponsoring queue today
<psyke83> cool
<psyke83> kwwii, btw, Cimi is in #murrine right now if you need him
<kwwii> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-26
<psyke83> kwwii, hey, I got the theme, nice work. One small issue, though. When ubuntulooks gets deprecated from the CD, the metacity for Human-Murrine and Human-Clearlooks will become available. Perhaps you can move it to Human-Murrine/metacity-1 and update the index.theme descriptors?
<psyke83> *will become unavailable
<psyke83> so, it'll have to go into the human-theme package
<kwwii> psyke83: right, I was waiting to move that (trying to avoid extra effort) :-)
<kwwii> oh yeah, if anyone is interested in installing all this on hardy I set up a PPA for it
<kwwii> https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive
<psyke83> kwwii, cool, want me to mention it on ubuntuforums?
<kwwii> I avoid the forums :p
<kwwii> is there a thread about it?
<nothlit> I'll put it on the wiki FAQ (people always want to see the state of things), with a disclaimer of course
<kwwii> hi nothlit!
<kwwii> cool
<nothlit> hey
<nothlit> do we have the goahead to shuttle all wallpapers to ubuntu-art.org and the mailing list btw?
<nothlit> or are we keeping everything on the wiki
<kwwii> nothlit: from canonical's standpoint we can do what we want but because they are not in control of ubuntu-art.org we will still need to the wiki to represent the official news and such
<psyke83> kwwii, no current threads  about a theme, but there's a thread on "interesting updates" for Intrepid. I posted screenshots and a link to your PPA for Hardy users. Maybe some of the feedback will be constructive there, who knows
<nothlit> oh kk cool
<kwwii> so we can work out a system to put everything on ubuntu-art.org first and then move it to the wiki when necessary
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, I can't wait to hear what people say :-)
<kwwii> we could start having meetings again and discuss exactly how and when to do it
<kwwii> that was for nothlit
<kwwii> nothlit: or we could just work out an idea and then present it
<nothlit> kwwii: i was wondering if we would have an #ua-devel in the same manner for organising purposes
<kwwii> nothlit: yeah, I am still waiting for a response on setting up another mailing list
<kwwii> we could start another irc channel in the meantime
<kwwii> although to be honest, so little goes on in this channel that we could just decide it all here :p
<nothlit> Well, I was just wary of instances like the email
<nothlit> But yeah we definitely could
<nothlit> I'm going to link to this article http://www.linux.com/feature/119212 for license advice until we get an answer from the lawyers--and mention that its only important if the artwork is actually released  and built with the software rather than packaged and loaded seperately as a theme.
<nothlit> bah, cody d/ced, i have xubuntu logo mockups
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> I think that in the end we will need to use the CCbySA for everything just because it is company polidy
<kwwii> policy
<nothlit> cc-by-sa is incompatible with gpl, but it shouldn't be a problem since we're mostly theming. I'm not sure how integrated the isolinux splash is though. Also usplash is loadable/themeable, but its C code.
<kwwii> right, the problem will be with pushing stuff up to debian
<kwwii> debian is pretty much the only one that has a problem with it
<kwwii> I guess that everyone else could just include lgpl if they want to
<nothlit> i'll bbl, quick first revision of Licenses page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Licenses
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-27
<nothlit> cody-somerville: http://core.joejaxx.net/~nothlit/xubuntu/ the .xcf is new stuff, open in gimp-- the pngs are the sketches i showed you @ the airport and paintovers so you can see how they look simplified... make sure you're zoomed out
<pwnguin> nothlit: the overlays look more like cats =/
<phomes> Hi. I'm trying the NewHuman theme in intrepid and I want to make the mines game look better with this dark theme. Do you have any links to instructions or advice for making apps more themeable?
<nothlit> not sure about that
<nothlit> but don't hardcode values and don't make up your own widgets etc unless necessary
<phomes> I'm gnome-games dev btw. Some colors are hardcoded. Is there any way to "pick" 8 colors that contrast the background?
<phomes> I don't really know where to go with this. Would you think that it is a theme question or a theme-engine question?
<nothlit> If you have the HSL (sometimes known as hsv) numbers you could reverse/flip the L value and add an if statement that says if its between like 40 and 60, instead just add 25 to the value or something, and then just pick hues all around-- if you want them pleasing you'll probably want to dig into the agave app which has code for Complements, Split Complements, Triads, Tetrads, Analogous, and Monochromatic
<nothlit> dunno if thats feasible though =p
<nothlit> well
<nothlit> actually you probably don't have to calculate a lightness/value
<nothlit> you could just grab the text colour lightness and saturation which should be readable against the background anyways
<nothlit> and just generate hues
<phomes> hmm okay. Not sure I got all that :) But there are some pointers in there for stuff for me to look at. Thanks! :)
<nothlit> i can clarify if you need, i don't mind monologueing technical matters at all, shameful habit though it is
<phomes> no I think I got it now. Just had to look at hsl on wikipedia and try the agave app. Makes sense now :)
<nothlit> ok
<phomes> I'll try to do the trick with looking at the lighting. I can't pick the colors that well as I'm actually somewhat colorblind. But I'll let agave do the work there. This should get me going for now. Thanks a lot!
<nothlit> about the second tip: you assume the text is quite readable against the background so you can pick the HSL from that and just modify the hue--and since it should be quite readable should compensate in the variances of the eye with percieved brightness and hue
<phomes> ahh yes. That's better. Cool :) I'll give it a try and see what I come up with
<phomes> last question :) Is there an easy way to obtain the text color? :) I apologise in advance of my complete theme ignorance :)
<nothlit> i don't have much knowhow of themeing internals, you'd have to grab it from gtk somewhere
<kwwii> re
<nothlit> i know recent theme/engines have that 6 colour changeable base that older ones don't
<kwwii> phomes: which text color?
<nothlit> the one used for game backgrounds--dunno if that would be the input text/bg?
<kwwii> it depends on the way the dev used widgets
<kwwii> it will either be a base fg color or an input fg
<kwwii> the "normal" document text color is the base color
<phomes> I need to pick some contrasting colors for the numbers used in mines game
<kwwii> hrm, we just wrote some algorythms in kde that do that
<phomes> oh, nice
<kwwii> the tricky part is to not just do offsets but to look at how the color is percieved by the eye
<phomes> okay
<nothlit> if you remove saturation from the picture it gets a lot less complicated ^^
<kwwii> hehe, no doubt :-)
<nothlit> kwwii: are you guys using a L*a*b lib or something?
<kwwii> nothlit: yes, we use LAB
<kwwii> it is simply one of the best color models available
<kwwii> we spent weeks arguing over hsl vs hsv
<nothlit> its pretty much the only good modern model for color perception =p
<nothlit> colour*
<nothlit> gah i typed it american
<kwwii> lol
<phomes> so I'd be best of reading up on lab and then use that?
<kwwii> phomes: you will get the most satisfying results I would guess
<nothlit> spent weeks arguing? HSL is 3dimensional, more similar to munsell, i'd figure there'd be no argument
<nothlit> yeah if you want to use a lib then go ahead and use lab
<kwwii> actually it has the hsv that kept everyone going
<kwwii> and when you start talking about color and coding devs seem to lose their mind
<phomes> he he
<nothlit> o.O
<nothlit> that is weird
<nothlit> Lab and HSL are definitely far closer together than HSV
<kwwii> exactly
<phomes> does it in any way try to take common colorblindness into account?
<nothlit> hsv is a sdfqwkeejqwlejk to paint with
<kwwii> phomes: no, that is something that your code is going to have to do
<nothlit> Lab should give you no problems if you differentiate based on Lightness
<nothlit> imo theres simply too many models of colourblindness to account for to use hue differentiation
<kwwii> yeah, that was going to be my point
<phomes> okay. Lots of stuff to read up on :) Colorblind people will have to tweak xgamma like I do usually :)
<kwwii> you can try to make it work for red/green since that is the most commons problem colors
<kwwii> but like in the red/green case, anyone with that will see blue totally different (much more) than a normal seeing person
<phomes> wow this turned out to be far more complicated than I had expected. I though this would be a common problem that apps would run into all the time...
<kwwii> it is a common problem which very few apps do correctly
<kwwii> I have seen a lot of crack done around this stuff in the past
<phomes> he. I guess stuff like darker themes should expose this more. Perhaps I should propose a gnome goal to fix up apps that don't get this right...
<kwwii> it'd make it a lot easier if people were just really colorblind :p
<phomes> lol
<kwwii> phomes: hehe, then our new dark theme in intrepid should expose some problems
<kwwii> :-)
<phomes> yeah. I see a lot of things already.
<kwwii> if you note problme in the dark theme please let me know or file a bug
<kwwii> s/problme/problem
<nothlit> phomes: it is a common problem, its just generally been ignored, or even exacerbated
<kwwii> well, the fact is that it would be impossible to make a system to handle all the different forms of colorblindness
<phomes> kwwii: I will. Most notably right now is related to browsing. Guess there is not much to do about it. It just looks a bit strange when maximized. Webpages are often really bright.
<kwwii> yeah, I want to keep the page bg white because most pages have a light bg but I know what you mean
<kwwii> it is almost too much contrast
<phomes> yeah
<kwwii> which is funny because most people complain that dark themes do not have enough contrast
<kwwii> after using one for a while I would argue the opposite
<phomes> it's not easy
<kwwii> I am still not sure if we will use a dark theme in the end but if we don't test it out it will never happen :-)
<phomes> yeah. I think that there is a high demand though. Lots of people post pictures showing off their dark themes. I think people are ready for something really different. No more gray or shiny blue :)
<kwwii> black is the new black :p
<phomes> he
<phomes> I gotta run. Thanks a lot for the help. I'll try to fix up mines and then see what else I can do in gnome. Looking forward to that dark theme :)
<phomes> bye
<kwwii> cool, have fun!
<phomes> you too
<nothlit> i meant in general, colours, dark themes etc
<nothlit> interesting- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5001
<nothlit> its only for windows but it looks like there is code
<nothlit> i was looking for a java blocker addon too, dunno how it came up :)\
<kwwii> hrm, that is interesting
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-28
<kwwii> g'night
<tretle> hi, I just installed the new dark ubuntu intrepid theme on hardy to test it out and I have a few requests
<tretle> If you could use gilouche as the window border it looks a lot better, if you could modify the window file,edit,view bar so that it is part of the window border that would look really slick.. Also could you change the notification bar icons for the network manager and sound control icons are high contrast white - similar to osx's icons. In my personal opinion both icons are too grey and high resolution. Other than those points I really like t
<tretle> he new theme.
<pwnguin> tretle: perhaps some screenshots and callouts to make your point?
<tretle> hmmm......... I will try and find appropriate icons for network manager and volume control but I wont be able to make a screenshot of the windowmanager hack because I am no good at mockups I am afraid
<pwnguin> nothing like practice to get better at it ;)
<pwnguin> but theres a huge problem with your suggestion
<pwnguin> file edit and view are off limits
<tretle> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Network+applet+icons?content=75198
<tretle> pwnguin - what do you mean off limits?
<pwnguin> i mean each application is free to have one or not
<tretle> the link above is an example of what I mean by hight contrast low res icons for the task bar
<pwnguin> and free to implement it differently
<pwnguin> the window border is handled by the window manager, File,Edit,View menu is handled by the application
<tretle> pwnguin - I dont want to get rid of it, I want it to be merged into the window manager so that the window manager is slightly fatter but it will make the app look  a hell of a lot better
<pwnguin> moving that functionality is not trivial
<pwnguin> and probably not the kind of work Ubuntu should be doing without consulting the rest of the linux community
<tretle> sorry
<tretle> I meant window border
<tretle> tired :D
<pwnguin> like i said, the window border is painted by a different program
<pwnguin> so for every application, youd have to change it and test to make sure it works
<pwnguin> but the high contrast icon is interesting
<pwnguin> tretle: when you say the icons are too "high resolution"
<pwnguin> how is that a problem?
<tretle> notification bar looks nicer and cleaner with simple icons...
<pwnguin> if the icons moved to svg
<pwnguin> would the high resolution stop looking clean or simple?
<tretle> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Network+applet+icons?content=75198
<tretle> that is what I mean by low res
<pwnguin> well, the sound icon does look a little fuzzy ;)
<pwnguin> but i dont think 'high resolution' and 'simple' have to conflict
<pwnguin> fewer colors and fewer shapes at higher resolutions still counts as simple in my book
<tretle> so do you prefer the style we have now or the style in that link?
<pwnguin> i dont know
<pwnguin> at this precise moment, my laptop doesn't boot into high resolution mode
<pwnguin> in intrepid
<pwnguin> I worry that the specific icons you picked out may tread too close to derivative works
<pwnguin> but i'm not against the monocolor idea at the moment
<DanaG> Aah, if it's nvidia... that'd be why there's no native-res.
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> im aware of it, i just havent done anything about it yet
<tretle> picking up an ati card next week to replace my nvidia binary blob :D
<tretle> http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshoton5.png
<tretle> thats the new dark theme + gilouche window border by the way
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-29
<pwnguin> does ati actually work with 3d yet?
<pwnguin> tretle: I'm not sure gilouche is right for Ubuntu. my suspicion is that it's less usable
<pwnguin> It looks neat in a screenshot, certainy
<pwnguin> certainly
<DanaG> My current theme: http://picpaste.com/pics/screenshot-orange-nodoka.1213694702.png
<tretle> just using the widow border, hows it less usable?
<pwnguin> tretle: how do i know where the button boundaries stop for minimize, maximize and close?
<pwnguin> DanaG: fail
<DanaG> why?
<tretle> 404 - no pic here?
<DanaG> aah
<tretle> why do you need to know that?
<DanaG> Aah, expired.
<DanaG> er, pic expired from the site.
<pwnguin> tretle: because thats how I know how to use it?
<tretle> the tooltip will say minimize, close, maximize
<DanaG> http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png
<pwnguin> sorry, that wasnt helpful of me
<pwnguin> tretle: because thats how I know where to click
<pwnguin> additionally, the button design helps point out that they're clickable
<tretle> so the tooltips x, box and undersore icons dont give you proper instruction?
<tretle> *underscore
<tretle> I think you are dumbing down users too much, lol
<pwnguin> they might not; it's really important that such claims be tested. this is just a hunch
<tretle> its used in opensuse, lol
<pwnguin> i think you're eliminating too much information
<pwnguin> its like the difference between architecture and engineering
<pwnguin> architecture people love big empty spaces, and neat looking buildings.
<pwnguin> engineers like stuff that works
<tretle> gilouche works
<tretle> people will not look at the window border and say how do i close this
<pwnguin> DanaG: what's with the openGL fish?
<pwnguin> tretle: sufficiently advanced users are going to change the defaults anyways
<tretle> thats not a very good reason for dismissing it
<tretle> if thats the case why have a new theme at all
<pwnguin> well in my lone opinion, to fix the remaining usability problems
<pwnguin> you can probably get more opinions on the mailing list
<DanaG> Atlantis2.
<DanaG> Fun.
<DanaG> Especially in the sky above the bridge.
<nothlit> cody-somerville: did you get my xubuntu logo mockups?
<cody-somerville> nothlit, no, sorry. link? :)
<nothlit> 07:22:57 < nothlit> cody-somerville: http://core.joejaxx.net/~nothlit/xubuntu/ the .xcf is new stuff, open in gimp-- the pngs are the sketches i showed you @ the airport and paintovers so you can see how they look  simplified... make  sure you're zoomed out
<cody-somerville> neat :)
<pwnguin> i wish i could find a good video of a mouse on a treadmill
<nothlit> anyways if you don't like those i can do a new set of sketches, or stop, otherwise I can see about making a preliminary svg
<pwnguin> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6653451215387750571&q=mouse+treadmill&ei=M-xmSIu2D5Xk4ALhs-HOAg
<cody-somerville> nothlit, I want to show this to Jim. I'll get back to you soon, okay? :)
<pwnguin> if you ask nicely they might send you a high quality video on dvd ;)
<nothlit> cody-somerville: np take as long as you need
<DanaG> Heh, this is random, but moderately amusing: http://wincustomize.com/zoom.aspx?skinid=1702&libid=2   -- wooden icon theme.
<DanaG> I wouldn't use it.. but it does still give me a bit of a laugh.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-22
<SiDi> Hey people
<SiDi> is Breathe still meant to be depending on gnome instead of Human ? :/
<thorwil> SiDi: why still? i thought it was never meant that way?
<SiDi> thorwil: the released one uses Human instead of gnome
<SiDi> macvr: macslow said he went to lunch \o/
<macvr> SiDi: darn it! i missed it! my connection was reset! :P
<SiDi> yeh noticed :)
<kwwii> hi all
<kwwii> anyone taken a look a the hundred paper cuts project yet?
<SiDi> i have
<SiDi> lots of invalid bugs..
<kwwii> yeah, well...if you think it is invalid say so
<kwwii> the designers will never figure it out on their own :p
<SiDi> oh, they're marked invalid :)
<kwwii> :)
<SiDi> basically lots of users see hundred paper cuts as an opportunity to beg another time for a hard-to-fix / unwanted / hard-to-implement / non-fixable feature
<kwwii> yeah, true that
<macvr> SiDi: ^exactly what i thought....
<macvr> kwwii: aernt the papercuts a non-art issue? or are you just spreading the word?
<macvr> does anyone have a good pic of scarlet johanson/jessica alba/catherine heigl/chatherine bell blowing a kiss...i'm asking only for purely artistic reasons :P
<kwwii> macvr: actually, quite a few of them are art issues
<kwwii> macvr: like the ones about the xdg folders
<macvr> ah!
<kwwii> someone can take the current human folder and create ideas for the overlays for music, video, etc
<kwwii> and if anyone is looking for icon stuff to do, there is also some UNR work which is boring but needs to be done
<kwwii> UNR uses 48x48 and 64x64 icons mainly so we need to make human icons of the current smaller ones at that size
<macvr> actually i had forgotten that xdg folders was a missing feature... since i had personally assigned different folder icons with overlays for those folders!
<kwwii> oh, and we are accepting ideas for the battery icons in the panel
<kwwii> ;)
<andreasn> kwwii, battery icons in the panel?
<macvr> kwwii: what is the present battery icon... ? what are your limitations /use of colors?
<macvr> kwwii: also the diff sizes you what the icons in?
<andreasn> kwwii, any ideas about https://bugs.launchpad.net/human-icon-theme/+bug/385903 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 385903 in human-icon-theme "File > Close icon looks odd in Firefox and Thunderbird" [Undecided,New]
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, we have had people complain about the current ones we usue in UNR
<kwwii> andreasn: hrm, seems like that should be fixable
<andreasn> I'm not sure my approach is the best solution
<andreasn> and now I broke my system, so I can't try Rodney's suggestion
<kwwii> I do not understand rodneys comment about renaming it though
<kwwii> the problem is that the wrong size icon is used
<kwwii> maybe just reordering the index directories as he suggests is enough
<macvr> andreasn: , kwwii does that seem like a papercut?
<kwwii> macvr: yeah, if the answer is simple, no if it is not
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> andreasn: what did you change?
<macvr> andreasn: if th solution is as simple as u suggest , then its a papercut...
<andreasn> I removed the entrys for 8x8 and 12x12 in the index.theme file
<kwwii> ahhh, right now I see it
<kwwii> well, I would like to try it with the dirs listed in the other order and see if that works
<andreasn> and took the icon from the 8x8 (or was it the 12x12) and placed it inside the 16x16 canvas
<kwwii> andreasn: erm, but a 16x16 version already exists
<macvr> which do you guys like better? for a smiley kiss lips... http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lVe-FF7vK3E/SW9gkHTdltI/AAAAAAAAAo8/6y_xJonlEbI/s400/salma_hayek_sexy4.jpg or http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/megan-fox-blows-a-kiss.jpg ... i feel the second gets a bit obscene
<andreasn> kwwii, yeah, that's why it's so odd that it works like this
<andreasn> I wonder if it might be a bug in the way mozilla deals with the menu icons
<kwwii> hrm, have you tried just re-ordering the stuff in the index.theme file?
<kwwii> this sounds like a wierd bug
<kwwii> the icon already exists at all sizes
<kwwii> well, up to and including 16
<andreasn> no, I haven't. Did that work?
<kwwii> i am in a call now, I will try it in a bit
<kwwii> lol, yeah...that fixes it
<kwwii> I just put the 8 and 12 directory listing at the end
<andreasn> wow
<andreasn> that's great, thanks for the help!
<kwwii> andreasn: wow, freaky
<kwwii> when I do that it also uses the larger icon in the tabs and scales it down
<kwwii> apparently
<kwwii> it used to look like the small one and now it uses the larger 3d one
<kwwii> boah, firefox makes no sense
<andreasn> screenshot?
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/Screenshot.png
<kwwii> boah, and it breaks nautilus as well
<kwwii> even worse, the one tab uses small the other uses large
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/Screenshot-1.png
<andreasn> ouch
<andreasn> I think both the menu and tab close button use icon-size: menu;
<andreasn> but I have no idea what's up with nautilus
<kwwii> well, this is messier than I thought...I will try to fix it
<SiDi> macvr: agree for obscene :p
<andreasn> the only place we use anything below 16x16 in gnome-icon-theme is for some of the emblem icons, so it might just be that things work in a buggy way, because it haven't been tested properly with smaller sizes
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> I mean, it was using the small icons without looking bad before I moved the entry around
<kwwii> anyway...
<kwwii> the nautilus problem went away when I loged out
<kwwii> I guess updating the cache is a good idea as well
<andreasn> but the tab icons are still too big for your liking?
<kwwii> I do not like the 3d-ness of them
<kwwii> but i guess I can make them smaller :)
<macvr> SiDi: agree meaning... u like it? :P
<macvr> thorwil: how about using this for the lips? >for a smiley kiss lips... http://lh5.ggpht.com/_lVe-FF7vK3E/SW9gkHTdltI/AAAAAAAAAo8/6y_xJonlEbI/s400/salma_hayek_sexy4.jpg , the lips have a nice shape , or do you have a good pic of scarlet johanson's lips?
<knome> lol
<macvr> knome: what to do i have a soft corner for scarlet :P
<knome> stop dreaming? ;)
<macvr> knome: actually , my reason was she has a full lips, just a design view, purely artistic  :P
<knome> yeah right
<knome> ;)
<macvr> :)
<knome> "i like her lips from the design point of view"
<knome> have to remember that when my wife accuses me of looking other women
<knome> and replace lips with any suitable body part
<macvr> always glad to help ;)
<macvr> knome: i see thorwil  doing it a lot of times ... i wonder how u havent picked it up earlier ?
<knome> maybe i was too busy explaining things to my wife? ;)
<macvr> lol
<raozuzu> i see interesting things here xD
<SiDi> knome: macvr: pervs. i dont even know these girls !
<macvr> SiDi: well.... it takes one to know one... :P
<knome> ;)
<raozuzu> lol!
 * SiDi prefers not understanding macvr's sentence
<macvr> SiDi: i'll try to translate in french... ;)
<macvr> SiDi: Il prend un Ã  connaÃ®tre
<SiDi> hahah :p
<SiDi> that means nothing :)
<SiDi> what did you mean by "it takes one"
<macvr> dam it google translate!
<raozuzu> mm perhaps... "I'll let you know (meet) one of them"? xD
<macvr> SiDi:  Il prend un Ã  connaÃ®tre, Ã  savoir un
<macvr> now it should make sense...
<SiDi> macvr: translating wont work on idiomatic expressions :d
<raozuzu> right
<raozuzu> it wuold be a really good thing!
<SiDi> that wouldnt be idiomatic expressions then :D
<macvr> may be wolfram should develop a good translator... :)
<raozuzu> lol
<raozuzu> ps: hi guys
<macvr> raozuzu: best PS i'v ever seen... lol!
<raozuzu> really thank you ;)
<SiDi> heya raozuzu
<raozuzu> well... how is going the word here?
<raozuzu> :D
<SiDi> badly
<SiDi> too much work and not enough work at the time
<macvr> raozuzu: and ... ubuntu/canonical has put SiDi on food patrol...
<SiDi> yeh
<SiDi> i cant even cook for myself
<raozuzu> really?! o_o
<SiDi> but i have to make sure developers eat well
<raozuzu> i'm sorry :P
<raozuzu> right
<SiDi> and i need to check their litter is clear and their environment is free of any threats
 * SiDi should calm down on drugs.
<macvr> raozuzu: SiDi makes sure all the devs eat...
<raozuzu> uh.. i've understood now
<raozuzu> however I can only help with my graphical skills here, sorry :P
<SiDi> i found a cool way to use this year's courses
<SiDi> padding for the stuff i put on my cartons :D
<raozuzu> nice idea!
 * SiDi kept the courses related to algorithms and finally finds a positive side to having courses about database stuff
<macvr> anyone... comments on this? .>http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/smiley6.png
<SiDi> meh
<SiDi> she looks really _happy_ on low res icons
<SiDi> and also, why an explicitely girl smiley ? men dont kiss ? :o
<macvr> well its better getting one from a girl ;)
<SiDi> depends for who :p
<macvr> :P
<macvr> what was the prob with low res?
<macvr> SiDi: ?
<SiDi> the eyes
<SiDi> looks like she wanna sleep
<SiDi> or she's bored
<macvr> oh... it was for closed eyes...
<macvr> not bored! but emotion... ;p
<SiDi> brb
<macvr> thorwil: hi.... busy?
<thorwil> macvr: halfway
<macvr> busy halfway? or smiley halfway?
<thorwil> first
<macvr> ok... take ur time...
<thorwil> macvr: make sure the eyes don't appear like straight lines/blocks at any size
<macvr> latest revision http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/smiley.png
<macvr> thorwil:
<macvr> thorwil: you want me to change the 32 or also the 22,16?
<thorwil> macvr: i guess there's not much that can be done on 16, but otherwise yes
<macvr> thorwil: i did that first... but didnt look good... will give it another shot.... what about the rest?
<thorwil> macvr: also try to move the features farther outwards for the large one
<macvr> ok...
<macvr> thorwil: ...thanx... i'll edit it and upload to the wiki... :)
<thorwil> np
<_MMA_> macvr: What mail was I supposed to send you again?
<macvr> i dont know , you mentioned something about sending the weekend report about smblems ,, what was wrong ...?
<macvr> emblems
<SiDi> hi _MMA_
<macvr> _MMA_: you mentioned it in the mail where you said , you had uploaded some icons but will comment on the rest , and what changes need to be made...
<_MMA_> macvr: Ok. Ill have to look. I thought I did comment but maybe not enough. I work 60hr work weeks most weeks and can be kinda forgetful.
<_MMA_> macvr: I did post Saturday re: Emblems. You even commented. "OK, i'll see what i can do"
<macvr> i understand... noone seems to be giving any feedbacks in the mailing list, and hence i keep bugging thorwil in the irc for feedbacks before i upload, but without feedback it is difficult what to do!
<_MMA_> macvr: Welcome to the list.
<macvr> _MMA_: oh... that was it ! ok... i was waiting for a BIG mail... need something to read :P
<_MMA_> And I try to not be to 1st to comment. Because really, if its the same 4 folks all the time, all the list really becomes is a recorder. ie: We do what we want without feedback from a wider audience. 'bout how it is anyway.
<macvr> _MMA_: well ...when no one comments , you need to be the first ...
<macvr> _MMA_: i get thorwil's feedback here , so he doesnt comment to my submissions...
<macvr> mostly
<macvr> whatever corrections he wants, i usually do it before i submit :)
 * _MMA_ also has *ALOT* of things to do. So things will fall through the cracks. You won't always get instant feedback.
<SiDi> im too busy to read ubuntu-art mails most of time atm, i must say :|
<SiDi> so no feedback
<_MMA_> macvr: So it's nothing personal.
<macvr> SiDi: as if there is a lot to read! the list is kinda dead,
<macvr> _MMA_: i understand...
<SiDi> macvr: its not about reading
<_MMA_> List is 3/4 [Breathe] lately.
<SiDi> i dont do one line comments macvr
<SiDi> if i wanna feedback i have to _think_ (takes time) and write a constructive replay (takes time)
<macvr> _MMA_: even SiDi chimes in his feedback here... so mailing list gets boring to report submissions... hence only today i reported about icons 1 uploaded 3 days ago. :P
 * _MMA_ is going to freeze [Breathe] soon to have a honest and frank aesthetic review of the current icons.
<_MMA_> macvr: Honestly, I don't need a post about every little change or upload. I'd rather people work through the week and post about it later.
<macvr> _MMA_: whats the prob with the mail emblem? why do you want to change it? tango doesnt have a mail-emblem ... the human one is the back of the envelope... hence i thought i'd try different...
<_MMA_> Daniel sometimes sends me 4 emails a week for the mail-* icons. All slight fixes.
<macvr> _MMA_: weekly updates are enough... like the one you did last week... responding to every mail is TRULY a bore
<_MMA_> macvr: I just don't know about the direction and don't want to think about it right now.
<macvr> ok...
<ryanprior> Maybe encourage Daniel to use a bzr branch rather than e-mailing all his changes?
<ryanprior> Then you can check them out at your leisure.
<_MMA_> macvr: I see style differences all over the set lately. I really don't want to start adding on top of it. So, I'm putting off the emblems for now.
<macvr> _MMA_: i'v noticed that too :(
<macvr> _MMA_: btw since you are here, how are the latest uploads of the smileys?
<_MMA_> ryanprior: I'm unsure he knows BZR. It's one reason I handle all that back-end stuff. So people can just create. And honestly I dont want him changing other things. I'd just rather he be sure of what he sends me. Like Sebastien.
<_MMA_> macvr: Saw the mail, havent looked at them yet. Will soon. I'll lost likely upload tonight if they fit.
<ryanprior> bzr probably has a GUI front-end that's at least as easy as e-mail
<macvr> _MMA_: haha... you are truly tired.... you are making spelling mistakes :P
<_MMA_> macvr: re: inconsistent style. It's mostly Daniel's submissions where he uses Oxygen.
<_MMA_> ryanprior: it's called "Olive".
<macvr> _MMA_: ^? I didnt understand
<_MMA_> What don't you get?
<macvr>  re: inconsistent style. It's mostly Daniel's submissions where he uses Oxygen.
<_MMA_> and?
<macvr> is that a reply about the smileys? it doesnt make sense to me?
<_MMA_> The mail-* ones mostly.
<_MMA_> "macvr: _MMA_: i'v noticed that too :(" <- Reply to that.
<macvr> ok...
<macvr> _MMA_: ... see ya later... and dont reject salma hayek ;P ... I used her as the reference for the face-kiss :P
 * _MMA_ looks now
 * _MMA_ likes Salma. (notes that macvr should at least capitalize peoples names) I don't know about the smirk.
 * macvr knows Salma doesnt mind :P
<macvr> I got fed up with the smirk... I gave up due to lack of fresh ideas... i mostly dont know how to do it better :(
<_MMA_> Ok. Noted.
<macvr> _MMA_: looks like James just lobbied for breathe... in ayatana list too
<_MMA_> Where?
<macvr> _MMA_: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00392.html ...
<_MMA_> Oh that. Saw it bub didnt read yet.
<_MMA_> *but
<macvr> :)
<kwwii> any suggestions for improvement: http://sinecera.de/games64.png ?
<_MMA_> error
<_MMA_> 404
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/games48.png
<kwwii> oops
<_MMA_> Looks nice as it is. What is it for?
<macvr> kwwii: maybe reduce the number of cards... the A is not clear...
<kwwii> macvr: yeah, good point...I have thought of that as well
<SiDi> mat_t didnt stay for long.. :D
<kwwii> thanks for mentioning it
<_MMA_> macvr: Well it kinda depends on the use-case.
<macvr> or maybe choose another  number card
<kwwii> he doesn't love me anymore
<kwwii> macvr has a good point
<kwwii> I thought about trying it but wanted to get a first reaction
<SiDi> kwwii: some flowers, a chocolate box, a restaurant, and a walk on the beach during sunset, and he'll love you again !
<macvr> 1 is probably the easiest :P
<kwwii> well, there is no 1 card :p
<macvr> i meant 10!
<SiDi> macvr: sure :D
<macvr> stupid keyboard !
<_MMA_> Sure. ;)
<macvr> well its only as good as it owner ! :(
<_MMA_> macvr: Maybe face-kiss needs more lashes?
<macvr> _MMA_: tried that ...it didnt look good...
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> Sebastien's weather-* icons are workin' out nice.
<kwwii> why doesn't someone make the xdg place icons?
<kwwii> please
<macvr> _MMA_: for the appointment soon, did you use Sebastien's first version or the edits i had done?
 * SiDi stopped trying to do icons, it ends up badly :D
<macvr> SiDi: what happened to the notify-osd power icons?
<macvr> nothing seems to be progressing...
<SiDi> they're in one of my branches
<macvr> oh...ok
<SiDi> i'll wait before boring the devs with that
<SiDi> its all coding now
<SiDi> and i dont wanna code on g-p-m
<SiDi> too much code
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep...see you all tomorrow
<SiDi> good night kwwii
<kwwii> night SiDi
<kwwii> night _MMA_
<_MMA_> night
<kwwii> miss you being around all the time :(
<_MMA_> :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-23
<doctormo> Here?
<MTecknology> doctormo: hi
<doctormo> MTecknology: I just came in to see if anyone was still impressed, I love flattery
<doctormo> ;-P
<MTecknology> doctormo: might as well advertise
<MTecknology> doctormo wants to hear what you guys think about what he's doing with svg. http://divajutta.com/doctormo/locomap/map.svg and http://staging.profarius.com/sites/staging.profarius.com/files/locomap/locomap-fill.svg (all click based)
<_MMA_> Cool.
 * _MMA_ thinks he's seen this posted in #inkscape before.
<doctormo> _MMA_: Yes, the locomap for the usa was, the world one wasn't
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<_MMA_> Sorry I cant offer more of an opinion. :) 'bout to head to bed. 4am wake-up time.
<_MMA_> Night gents.
<MTecknology> He's doing all the fun svg stuff and I'm trying to make a module to generate the content
<MTecknology> ttyl
<doctormo> MTecknology: Generate it as xml, load it in and let the javascript finish the job?
<andreasn> thorwil, kwwii: did you have a ubuntu-art meeting?
<thorwil> andreasn: no, was canceled because _MMA_ couldn't make it, afair
<andreasn> did you set a new date?
<thorwil> i think we didn't
<kwwii> we haven't set one yet, but we should
<robsta> hi
<robsta> i'd like to release another css engine some time, anyone interested in testing?
<robsta> instructions are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GtkCssEngine
<robsta> (but you don't need to build librsvg yourself any more)
<knome> does anybody know of a good-looking icon set which includes vinyl icon and possibly also other not-so-used media icons?
<knome> thanks. :)
<knome> i actually don't even care if they don't fit into other themes, as long as they are consistent
<knome> and don't really need a full icon theme, only some media icons
<macvr> knome: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aero-CrazyFolk-RC1?content=67198 ... the media icons are different... does it look interesting?
<knome> let's have a look if it's something for me.
<macvr> knome: not what you were looking for?
<knome> wait
<knome> have not checked it yet
<macvr> k...
<knome> looks nice, but where's the svg?
<macvr> oh.... it's just pngs... i didnt realize u wanted svg ...
<knome> of course i want svg ;)
<macvr> :p
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/media-vinyl-128.png
<knome> this was something i was looking after.
<knome> (there it is now ;))
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/media-vinyl.svg for source
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds/Extra_Photo?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=sh_ubuntu_karmic_3.jpg
<Skiessi> is there any scm repository for the artwork?
<SiDi> scm ?
<Skiessi> source code management?
<kwwii> it is spread across several packages all of which are in bzr on launchpad
<Skiessi> okay
<ryanprior> Skiessi: we generally call it VCS, or "version control system", since modern systems control much more than just source code.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-24
<psyke83> hi
<kwwii> hi
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, I haven't heard back from you re: the theme update, any news?
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I have been testing it and was going to put it in this week...got side-tracked by some UNR work
<kwwii> I like the simple progress bars bettr :)
<psyke83> kwwii: sure, no prob
<psyke83> did you notice that the metacity was updated, though? I previously used a hack in Human-Murrine and Human-Clearlooks to keep the original metacity colour, but it caused incompatibilities. The "Humanity" code has those hacks removed, and the metacity was adjusted
<psyke83> this means that the Human Clearlooks needs a very slight tweak (otherwise the metacity will look too light), shall I send it to you?
<kwwii> psyke83: to be honest, I only am using the gtkrc you gave me
<kwwii> yes, please do
<psyke83> kwwii: the version from the forum is newer, and has some other slight fixes. I'll send all the updates in an email in a little while
<psyke83> I'll also revert the scrollbar to normal
<kwwii> psyke83: killer, thanks
<kwwii> what do you mean by normal?
<psyke83> ah wait, sorry
<psyke83> I misread what you wrote a minute ago, I thought you said that you preferred the simple scrollbars better
<kwwii> hehe...no, I meant the progress bars without the stripes
<psyke83> yeah, that's fine ;)
<psyke83> anyway I'll send everything to you in a little while ;)
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> I have a new package with some other changes underway
<psyke83> there's a small problem with the scrollbars, did you notice? When the trough border is >0, Firefox has a little problem when displaying text boxes
<psyke83> it's a bug only in firefox and it's minor, but it's a bug nevertheless
<kwwii> I hadn't noticed that
<psyke83> there's an upstream bug report, I'll mention it when I send the updates
<kwwii> just trying to reproduce it...not sure what to look for, really :p
<psyke83> I was gonna send a screenshot, but I'm not running Ubuntu right now. Here's an example (not from my theme): https://bug471789.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=355040
<psyke83> see the grey box underneath the frames?
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> really freaky
<psyke83> it's a problem with xulrunner and it's not fixed in firefox 3.5rc2 yet, unfortunately
<psyke83> maybe if I bring it to the attention to the ubuntu-mozilla folks, they can take a look
<kwwii> definitely not a bad idea to mention
<kwwii> psyke83: really wierd, that only happens on certain sites/code...I cannot find a page :p
<kwwii> anyway, a trough >0 looks bad
<psyke83> brb
<psyke83> kwwii: shall we just set the trough-border back to 0, then?
<psyke83> apart from the firefox bug, I quite liked the trough
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, I think so
<kwwii> if we set it, it needs at least 2 I think
<kwwii> so either 2 or 0 if you ask me
<kwwii> we can at elast try it out this way and see what people think
<psyke83> kwwii: ah I forgot that you're using an older revision. I had set it to 2
<psyke83> let's decide after I send the update - if you still don't like, we can easily set the trough to 0
<kwwii> psyke83: no, I had set it from 0 to 2 on my own to test that bug
<psyke83> ok
<psyke83> if this bug didn't exist in firefox, would you prefer to keep the trough at 2, then?
<coz_> hey guys.. I keep getting email my memebership is about to expire...who takes care of that here?
<SiDi> membership to ?
<SiDi> the launchpad group ?
<coz_> SiDi,  I suppose  I havet kept up with things.. as part of the art team
<SiDi> coz_: it sends expiration emails on a regular basis to clear inactive members
<coz_> SiDi,  well I am not exactly inactive ,, i have been a memeber for years  but the email wants me to contact one of you guys and I did send a message to someone but if necessary I will join again
<SiDi> can you show me the message ? sounds suspicious :|
<coz_> sure hold on
<coz_> SiDi,    http://pastebin.com/mfb308c9
<SiDi> hm, well, i guess you shall wait for them :p
<SiDi> i think they sent such mails to clean the group a little
<psyke83> kwwii: sent the updates to your email
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, I will keep an eye out
<coz_> SiDi,  well I dont need cleaned up :)    but i will try contacting again
<SiDi> kwwii: did you send expiration mails to inactive LP group members ?
<kwwii> SiDi: no, it is automatic
<kwwii> and it is there to clean out the cruft
<kwwii> otherwise how would I know how long something went unused and whether a person still wants to be on the list?
<thorwil> you don't have a database in your head?
<kwwii> not yet
<knome> %)
<knome> kewl, he's planning on one
<knome> how does the api work?
<kwwii> ask oracle
<knome> heh
<michote> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=face-monkey.png
<michote> feedback?
<knome> it's... a monkey
<knome> i personally find the two smallest sizes a bit too blurry
<knome> and maybe there is a bit too much detail on the mouth/eyes area comparing to the orange head, which is detailless.
<knome> and the eyes itself look a bit scary on the biggest size. i don't know if that's a goal, though.
<knome> but the shape and the overall idea/how it's crafted looks good.
<thorwil> michote: it looks like a monkey/smiley crash. either part is well done, but the combination is a bit unsettling
<knome> actually it looks a bit like a lion. :)
<thorwil> michote: i think you should try to stay with the smiley base color. try to make the ears part of the smiley shape
<thorwil> and make sure the face is part of the smiley surface
<thorwil> gotta run, bbl
<michote> ;) I think its very hard  to get an monkey which fits an buttonstyle
<michote> thorwil: you want a yellow monkey? It'll look more like a lion
<michote> knome: would smaler eyes look better?
<knome> i don't know id it's the size but the reflection more.
<knome> you need something else than a vertical gradient
<knome> don't know how that would look in the small sizes again
<michote> I wanted to fit the eye-style of the other smileys, but maybe it's really crashing
<SiDi> this monkey makes me think about carrots
<knome> SiDi, lol
<knome> michote, the monkey is otherwise way more realistic than the smileys
<knome> michote, that's why the eyes don't fit in that good.
<michote> SiDi: http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/mattnyc82/Baby_ginger_monkey.jpg
<kwwii> that looks like my son
<michote> than I would try to simplify the monkey-face
<michote> :D
<macvr> kwwii: too cruel! hehe
<michote> http://www.mbl.edu/news/press_releases/images/cute.monkey.jpg
<SiDi> aw this photo
<SiDi> the baby monkey looks like an hazelnut
<knome> ...
<knome> i read that it made you feel like a hazelnut ...
<michote> carrots and hazelnut?
<knome> michote, SiDi is a bit crazy, don't mind him
<macvr> michote: try using brown... orange makes it look like the monkey has carotenemia ;p
<michote> :D
<michote> Any Ideas how to integrate the face into the smiley surface?
<knome> same color, only brightness changes?
<knome> have to go
<knome> see you
<SiDi> give him more little cheeks and bigger ears, and add him some hair on the top of the head ? D:
<michote> SiDi: Good Idea, but this would be even more detail :P
<SiDi> michote: at least on the big sizes :D
<knome> in general i think it's a bad idea to have lots of detail in big sizes and then a relly simplified small icon
<psyke83> kwwii: I sent an update re: the trough border bug to your email. He wants us to upload the theme as-is, and that'll put more pressure on the Mozilla folks to fix the bug in Firefox
<psyke83> *He=asac
<kwwii> yeah, that sounds like asac :p
<psyke83> ;)
<kwwii> I didn't expect him to do too much
<psyke83> he said that he'll escalate the bug
<kwwii> cool
<psyke83> Cimi confirmed in the report today that it's not a murrine bug (which is obvious, as all the other engines have the same problem)
<kwwii> yeah, firefox is freaky
<kwwii> I figured that out yesterday again
<psyke83> ;)
<kwwii> trying to fix a wierd bug with how it simply ignores the icon lookup spec
<psyke83> you started working on KDE then migrated to working on GNOME, right? Why don't you lobby for GNOME 3, Firefox etc. to be re-coded to use the QT framework??
<psyke83> ;)
<kwwii> lol, all true but I doubt that will happen any time soon
<psyke83> We can rename it QNOME, I guess, I dunno
<kwwii> although I did have a talk with mark about it once
<kwwii> porting gnome to qt
<SiDi> qt, meh
<kwwii> I still do a bit of work on kde though
<kwwii> psyke83: just read your last email...will do
<psyke83> kwwii: cool, thanks
<kwwii> the thanks, as always, go to you...you've stuck with this stuff, I am amazed
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> and thankful
<kwwii> you rock ;)
<psyke83> you too ;)
<kwwii> now that we have a whole design team, I have a lot more time for specific projects, I am hoping to start my own new theme sometime soon
<psyke83> I'll be looking forward to seeing the results
<kwwii> well, it is kinda wierd but I would like to see if it is possible
<kwwii> essentially it is a dark theme based on carbon fiber but I want the tecture to fade in and out around the buttons, etc
<kwwii> for karmic we will have at least some windows with a client-side window decoration (so no metacity)
<kwwii> that should be interesting
<psyke83> and this will be workable with GTK in its current form?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> there is a ppa with the current stuff somewhere
<kwwii> cody russell is working on it
<kwwii> ie the desktop experience team
<kwwii> but I doubt it will be something for all apps
<kwwii> even though at this time we are selling it as such
<kwwii> the problems come when the app dies
<kwwii> the current infrastructure doesn't allow gtk to know/do anything about those events
<kwwii> compiz did it previously
<kwwii> or the pop-up
<kwwii> but if the gtk app itself is dead the theme won't know it
<kwwii> but anyway
<psyke83> I see, sounds interesting anyway
<kwwii> yepp
<SiDi> kwwii: what are those windows with client-side window decoration ?
<kwwii> SiDi: just that
<SiDi> kwwii: to my ears it sounds like a big failure :|
<kwwii> no metacity to be seen
<kwwii> the whole window is gtk
<kwwii> so you can click to move the window anywhere outside of a button, etc
<kwwii> no need to draw the window decoration differnt from the window anymore
<psyke83> kwwii, similar to how alt-clicking works right now?
 * SiDi doesn't get it
<psyke83> I use alt+left-mouse to move windows frequently on my laptop (as it's more of a pain to grab the titlebar with a touchpad)
<kwwii> psyke83: exactly
<macvr> _MMA_: hi... could you reply to the mail > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2009-June/010812.html
<macvr> the/this/
<_MMA_> macvr: I haven't formed an opinion on it really. I'm not likely to soon either. (next week or so) And technically, I think that if you don't put in a icon for all sizes it will render blank icons. Still have to look.
<_MMA_> macvr: I have *ALOT* going on. In addition to the fact that things aren't totally solid with the set as-is, I'm not inclined to add more 'till what we have is sorted.
<macvr> _MMA_: i understand... :) but just an FYI before you make a decision...you can see the rendering problem in daniel's edit... but this doesnt arise with the scalable icons... I pretty sure the blank icons dont occur, I'v checked while using the icons , and as you have also seen in the screenshot  dashua,James had posted the icons display well
<macvr> anyway... take care...
<_MMA_> Be positive. Let me know for sure.
<macvr> _MMA_: i am sure...100% positive
<darkmatter> _MMA_: you don't need all sizes for icons. and it can work to your advantage as well
<macvr> _MMA_: even the hi-color has only 1 size , 22px... but still works :)
<darkmatter> I've hacked up the themes to fix unsightly scaling in the panels (at an app level too). I have a panel locked into 16pix and 24 pix icons only (for tray apps and applets as well) tis sweet
<_MMA_> darkmatter: Part of my concern was rendering blank icons. Wanting all of the sizes I also see as a bit of future-proofing. And I'll just punch someone if I get a bug report from someone using the panel at like 48px and there's some issue.
<_MMA_> macvr: I'll consider the chat here and try to give a definitive answer by this weeks end.
<macvr> _MMA_: :) ... i'm sure you wont have bugs... thanx
<darkmatter> you wont get blanks. however, if you have something weird like a missing 22px and have a 32px them you will get an oversize (like in a toolbar or whatnot). but in general rendering is non-issue. it looks theme - icon - closest size. so you don't get blanks. if no icon is available in theme, it'll go to inheritance then falback
<_MMA_> Sayz the Ubuntu n00b. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: ;p
<_MMA_> darkmatter: No no. Blanks in the rendering of the set. I have a script that cuts all the sizes from the 1 file.
<darkmatter> _MMA_: ahh.. should still be none-issue though
<macvr> _MMA_: just no need to render , when you have a single set, makes your job easier ;)
<darkmatter> one canvas is pretty foolproof
 * macvr having a headache with papercuts!
<_MMA_> macvr: No... My issues are often elsewhere. Incorrect layer or file naming. Cruft from not vacuuming defs. Lots of wiki edits.
<macvr> _MMA_: I usually vacuum defs , 3 times before I submit :)
<macvr> while open & close the svg
<_MMA_> Layer anf file names are also important. Those 3 things are the most important technical things for artists to keep in mind.
<_MMA_> s/anf/and
<_MMA_> Oh. Uno mas. (1 more) Making sure the icons are /on/ the correct layer.
<macvr> _MMA_: since This has to be done on a single size , i Used only one layer... and naming is not a problem, since i tested all the nm-signal icons :)
<macvr> i didnt use the template
<darkmatter> lol. that would be a seriously d'oh blunder. I mean. I'd really question the intelligence of anyone that used the wrong layer :P
<_MMA_> Didn't? What did you use?
<macvr> 128px document size...
<_MMA_> darkmatter: It's happened. And others have edited the plates. Where the object names are also important. Hence, use the template and don't mess with the technicals.
<_MMA_> But we all make mistakes.
<macvr> ^ like my number 1 card?
 * _MMA_ can't remember.
<macvr> for when i said use 1 , in kwwii's cards
 * _MMA_ is burnt from constant 12hr days and needs food/rest. bbl.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-25
<coz_> hey guys  I was just informed my membership has expired but my page is still up  this is confusion how do I reinstate my memebership?
<kwwii> I think you just rejoin or such
<kwwii> doesn't it send you an email saying click here if you don't want to be unsubscribed or such?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/17171/screenshot_iENfDm.png ; http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/17172/screenshot_006_JcOyeW.png
<dashua> Any opinions?
<macvr> dashua: yeah the girl looks good... ;p
<dashua> Hehe :)
<dashua> Thx
<dashua> That's the Fedora artwork girl
<macvr> ;p
<macvr> dashua: did you start your theme woth dust as your base?
<macvr> with^
<dashua> No
<dashua> Human
<macvr> oh... ok... the scrollbars got me confused :)
<dashua> Yeah, they are custom pixmaps
<dashua> Along with through-scrollbar, steppers and steppers-prelight
<macvr> :) i like the metacity buttons
<dashua> I stole them from Wasp, bu the metacity is new with a Shiki base
<macvr> though i'm personally not a fan of the colors, i perfer dark themes...  the theme has a nice smooth look...
<dashua> Me too, just trying a nice modern Human variant :)
<dashua> Thx
<macvr> dashua: ah... its only gonna last 1 release...  for karmic+1 we MIGHT have a new color
<dashua> Yeah, I heard. That is cool.  Scrapping the Human metacity too is nice
<macvr> Couldnt you make the panels dark atleast?
<dashua> I could, sure.
<dashua> If you really like DARK, have you tried Hanso yet?
<macvr> I'v seen it... but havent used it
<dashua> Ah ok,
<macvr> I tend to customize the stuff too much once i get a new theme... i nit-pick a lot! ;p
<dashua> Same here
<thorwil> kwwii: http://www.h-online.com/open/Berlin-art-colleges-switch-to-Linux--/news/113619
<kwwii> thorwil: sweet :)
<thorwil> kwwii: seems to be administration only, but at the very least they know about linux and ubuntu
<kwwii> yeah, the idea is cool
<b3lorix> could someone point me in the direction of how to make a theme
<b3lorix> what do you use to test gtk and metacity themes so you dont have to keep installing them
<kwwii> b3lorix: I just test them by installing them
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-26
<zniavre> just discover a small project i find really well done > tint2  an alternative panel
<zniavre> http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3820/capturezvk.png
<kwwii> omg michael jackson died
<macvr> dashua: have you considered a transparent .png for the panel? rather than a traditional coloring?
<mat_t> Chaotic_, hi!
<Chaotic_> mat_t: Hi
<mat_t> Chaotic_ is Otto Greenslade, leading the visual design efforts in the design team
<mat_t> (that's for the round of introductions)
<mat_t> Please feel free to poke him from time to time :)
<macvr> thorwil: any plans for new boot submissions?
<thorwil> macvr: no
<macvr> :(
<andreasn> hello Chaotic_, I'm andreasn, primary GNOME design. Feel free to ping me if you have any questions on anything
<andreasn> primary GNOME designer I mean
<thorwil> macvr: asking me before i even read that announcement was a bt early, anyway ;p
<andreasn> Chaotic_, apparently I'm very good of knowing what every icon name used in GNOME is by heart :)
<macvr> well... no one disturb kwwii for a few days , he is in mourning ;p
<andreasn> mat_t, are you involved in the 100 papercuts thing?
<robsta> hello  Chaotic_, i'm the css engine guy
<macvr> andreasn: papercuts is a big mess :( ...
<andreasn> macvr, are all 100 filled? I just found another, but I can probably report it as a regular bug
<macvr> andreasn: there are more than 1000! filed!
<andreasn> apparently gtkfilechooser and nautilus have different ideas on how invisible folders should be sorted
<macvr> sorting them is huge problem ,since most are feature requests....
<andreasn> but it is a terribly minor issue, so I'm certain people have very different ideas on how it should be solved :)
<macvr> andreasn: file it , and paste link... i'll confirm it
<macvr> i'll been looking into the papercuts , for past 2 days and so many are invalid...
<macvr> andreasn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCut < just make sure it fits the criteria , also adding your fix would make it easier
<andreasn> "Put briefly, a paper cut is a trivially fixable usability bug that the average user would encounter on his/her first day of using a brand new installation of Ubuntu Desktop Edition*."
<andreasn> hm, that would mean the hidden files thing would be invalid probably
<andreasn> as a papercut, not as a bug
<macvr> yup...
<macvr> andreasn: i think i know the problem you are referring to... pls file a bug for that , the file order is so different in gtk and nautilus, since i have set always show hidden files.i would love to see a solution soon :)
<andreasn> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587040
<ubottu> Gnome bug 587040 in general "GTK+ and Nautilus have different ideas on sorting order" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<macvr> :)
<Cimi_> andreasn, I've just tested dolphin (kde4)
<Cimi_> andreasn, hidden files first
<Cimi_> it should be better to have the same behaviour accross different desktop environments
<Cimi_> http://git.gnome.org/cgit/nautilus/tree/libnautilus-private/nautilus-file.c
<Cimi_> line 2526
<Cimi_> that's the function to patch
<mat_t> andreasn: indeed
<Chaotic_> hello everyone :)
<SiDi> Chaotic_: hiya
<mat_t> andreasn, you've asked about paper cuts, this is the list of 100 we would like to get fixed: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/karmic
<andreasn> I wondered if you needed more of them, but if I understood correctly, you
<andreasn> 're currently up to your necks in submitted papercuts
<mat_t> andreasn: yes, we've had over 1100 submitted so far
<andreasn> are the papercuts intended to be fixed primary by Ubuntu devs, or would you consider them good starting points for new developers?
<andreasn> I met a guy at my neighbors house the other day that mentioned he "would like to fix something in Ubuntu"
<mat_t> andreasn: anyone can submit a fix
<mat_t> andreasn: there's more than enough bugs for everybody :)
<andreasn> I'll point him to that list as well if I run into him again, I already pointed him to GNOME Love
<mat_t> cool
<mat_t> andreasn: there's a bunch of artwork bugs, too, that this group could help with
<andreasn> I could look through it and see if it's something that could be forwarded upstream, do you have a URL?
<mat_t> andreasn: you'd have to look through the list, I don't think we have a separate URL for artwork-related bugs
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=icon&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package= is a good 
<mat_t> kwwii, you've won the award for the longest url ever pasted
<mat_t> ;)
<SiDi> wherewherewhere
<mat_t> SiDi, I think you just missed it
<SiDi> damn
<mat_t> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.searchtext=icon&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_p
<mat_t> ackage=
<SiDi> nice
<mat_t> how can you *not* love Launchpad
<mat_t> ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> all I did was go to the bugs for the project and search for "icon" ;)
<mat_t> kwwii, and you'd imagine it would be something like https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/search&string=icon or something...
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, no doubt...everything that I typed in is in the first 50 letters or so
<kwwii> the rest is just baggage
 * SiDi yawns
<kwwii> so any ideas on the "sound and video" category icon? http://sinecera.de/player2b.png is the wip
<SiDi> btw kwwii ive got a "final" version of those notification-battery icons on my lp page
<SiDi> what shall i do with them ?
<kwwii> SiDi: did you post a link to the list?
<kwwii> or send me an email with a link?
<SiDi> its on ayatana
<kwwii> I like launchpad but it has been a while since I browsed through pages on it for fun :p
<andreasn> kwwii, how does it look in the size it will be displayed in 95%+ of the time (ie 24x24)?
<kwwii> andreasn: actually, that icon looks pretty good small, but I am only making that for the larger sizes
<SiDi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sidi/+junk/notification-battery/files
<kwwii> andreasn: http://sinecera.de/player2b-b.png is the large svg exported at 24x24...it is amazingly not-shit :p
<SiDi> kwwii: 404
<kwwii> i get the feeling that I am on the ayatana irc server but not on the mailing list
<kwwii> oops
<kwwii> andreasn: http://sinecera.de/player2b-2.png
<kwwii> SiDi: I'll put them in the package...I will be updating it very soon (within days) in karmic
<SiDi> kwwii: they seem ok with the idea, but i dont know who will implement it. if it's for me i'll do that in early september, i think
<SiDi> since its just rewriting a few strings in the app.. but i just need to know they wont patch it again and again after (cause g-p-m changes a lot latelyt)
<SiDi> cheers kwwii
<kwwii> I'll ping you next week when I know more and we can discuss any problems
<kwwii> :)
<andreasn> kwwii, looks sane, but would it perhaps end up a bit complex if put together with other icons. Maybe get rid of 1 of 3 elements?
<SiDi> kwwii: okies
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah...I as thinking the same
<kwwii> the play button on top is kinda overkill anyway
<andreasn> agreed
<andreasn> did you have any more luck with the firefox close icon bug?
<kwwii> well, I found out that firefox does indeed screw up the lookup
<andreasn> I wonder if fixing the order in index.theme and replacing the 16x16 with the image I attached to the bug would help
<andreasn> oh, so it is a FF bug after all?
<kwwii> so I made a new 16x16 pixel icon which is flat (and really only like 14x14)
<kwwii> so in the end we can work around the problem
<kwwii> but this solution kinda sucks because nautilus does the lookup correctly and now finds the 16x16 pixel version before the 12x12
<andreasn> would you like to make a comment on that in the Mozilla bugzilla?
<andreasn> I wouldn't count on that it would go into 3.5, as that is drawing really close
<andreasn> but perhaps in 3.6
 * kwwii makes a bugzilla account
<kwwii> it takes a lot of work to comment on a bug at mozilla
<andreasn> it kind of keep me away from reporting bugs on certain products as well :(
<kwwii> well, I have now added my mustard to the sandwich...
<mat_t> kwwii: any thoughts on the boot splash submissions? Should we have a separate page for it?
<mat_t> kwwii: sorry had to reboot
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, we can put it under boot or such
<mat_t> kwwii: cool
<kwwii> added it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot
<kwwii> once the internet wakes up launchpad and the servers boot
<kwwii> i hope james has some kind of electrical implant in his head that causes him pain every time a person waits for a wiki page to load
<knome> lol
<asomething> i'm not sure anyone could survive that!
<kwwii> ;)
<robsta> hey thorwil
<thorwil> hi robsta
<robsta> thorwil: single canvas is much too slow, i need to extract the widgets, like the icon theme does
<robsta> thorwil: sorry, that means more delay
<robsta> thorwil: the problem is that with the plates the whole svg has to be rendered each time, and the rest is just clipped
<thorwil> robsta: delay is currently not a problem for me :)
<robsta> thorwil: but for me, i want a functional theme :)
<thorwil> robsta: so, do you go for spliting at use-time, not design-time?
<thorwil> as in, the template can stay as one huge SVG, it just can't be used directly?
<robsta> thorwil: yes exactly
<thorwil> phew :)
<robsta> the plan is that when you run "make dist" to create the tarball, the cache is created automatically
<robsta> so you can still use the widget factory or whatever, it will just take long to start
 * kwwii takes his son to see transformers2 ...have fun
<kwwii> mat_t: have a nice vacation, see you in a couple of weeks
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-27
<_MMA_> macvr: Dude. I'm diggin' nm-signal-100 v.3.
<macvr> _MMA_: :) finally !
<_MMA_> I like that fat little bottom piece.
<_MMA_> haha. :P
<_MMA_> We'll see about the shadow as some will complain. But it's a minor quibble.
<macvr> yeah i thought of the bottom, made no sense in having the antennae , when it is not going to be clear
<macvr> _MMA_: what shadow?
<macvr> the black? bottom line?
<_MMA_> The ground one.
<macvr> if people dont like it , we can remove it
<_MMA_> macvr: I'll make you a deal. You get the base set done, with 1 round of comments and maybe edits to address issues I'll make sure these hit the .5 release that goes into the archive.
<macvr> this is a beter icon than the first version. it has better padding.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... DEAL :)
<_MMA_> macvr: I want you to play with how the signal strength is displayed though. One idea I had was to start with your green color and go up in opacity or just the strength of green.
<_MMA_> ie:
<_MMA_> Start with 25% green, then 50, 70 and then 100.
<_MMA_> Something like that.
<macvr> that wont be clear... it will just become semi-transparent ... i dont think it would look good
<_MMA_> Im not explaining it right. Ill grab yours and show you.
<macvr> ok
<_MMA_> Damn. This thing is complex.
<macvr> ;p
<_MMA_> macvr: Basically, if the final arc is 100% green it would descend from there 'till it looked like your nm-signal-75 does at the top. Kinda flipped.
<_MMA_> But instead of all green or all gray, it would be % of green.
<_MMA_> I know that still sounds odd.
<Cimi> blue is better
<Cimi> imho
<macvr> you mean shades of green? dark green 100%, light green 50%?
<Cimi> because red/green is usually recognized for temp (cpu temp) or errors
<Cimi> blue remembers air, sky (wifi)
<_MMA_> macvr: Shades! Damn. I need some rest. :P In the end, it's just an idea. If you got that base 5 done with a similar motif to what you have, that would be fine.
<macvr> _MMA_: but doing it in shades will not be very easy visual indicator.... another factor is , finding the right shade of green for different panel colors ,dark shade would not be visible in dark panels
<macvr> and so on
<_MMA_> macvr: Don't worry too much about it (just keep it in mind) as we can't plan for every use case.
<macvr> _MMA_: i'll try it though...  i'll see how it works
<_MMA_> Sure. If it's trouble, forget about it. No use on spending too much time on something that doesn't work.
<macvr> yup
<macvr> Cimi: well blue is used right now... so wanted to try something different... but maybe for version 2.0 of breathe we could go back to blue :)
<_MMA_> macvr: For now, I'm gonna nix the ones there currently. I'm doing a bit of cleanup. Post to the list once you have the 5 of them done. Give a nice shot of the 5 of them together.
<_MMA_> Green/blue. I'm not chuffed either way. Though Cimi has a point.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... just dont remove the attachments
<_MMA_> np
<_MMA_> macvr: You clean them up once we're final.
<macvr> sure
<macvr> np
<SiDi> macvr: kudos on v3
<SiDi> i like that shape
<macvr> SiDi: thanx :)
<macvr> SiDi: _MMA_ : actually i had done that shape a long time ago, but got tied up with emblems and only now i got to it
<macvr> also smileys!
<macvr> well... i'll upload the set tomorrow :)
<_MMA_> Cleaned up to reflect new uploads. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<_MMA_> macvr: We're going to freeze this weekend to prep for the .50 release. Which I hope to get out July 6th.
<_MMA_> We're going to have a mass review and some testing.
<macvr> _MMA_: i got tied up in papercuts ! that thing is a huge mess! but definitely by tomorrow this time it is sure to be done... or it that too late ?
<_MMA_> Naa, naa. Plenty of time. As long as I get it by, say Tuesday I'll upload.
<macvr> Ok... :)
<_MMA_> Things I know for sure won't need any review/fixes/whatever (usually Sebastien's submissions) I'll usually make an exception for.
<macvr> _MMA_: whats the problem with emblem-important?
<macvr> _MMA_: also, is this shape ok for emblem-default> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/emblem-default1.png
<macvr> I'v done only for the 128,48px , but just to check
<_MMA_> Not feelin' that.
<_MMA_> emblem-important I guess is fine.
 * _MMA_ looks again.
<_MMA_> macvr: I think the fact that is has a shine on it that accentuates the edge where the others don't is my issue.
<_MMA_> macvr: Little inconsistencies like that are why we're having the review.
<macvr> you dont want the shine?
<macvr> i can remove it
<macvr> _MMA_: i also wanted to ask... am i doing the labelling right ? within the layers? or are you to do it all over again?
<_MMA_> No. As it's a touch alot of the others don't have. And If I've uploaded anything that does, we'll have to fix.
<macvr> ok , i'll remove the shine
<_MMA_> macvr: It's been correct so far. folder/icon_name should be correct. Every once in a while there's a hickup. Everyone does it. It's ok.
<macvr> :)
<macvr> _MMA_: the emblem-default.. check mark like the one Daniel has done? is that ok?
<macvr> Daniel's >apps/checkbox
<_MMA_> macvr: That's 1 thing artists need to keep a sharp eye on. When tackling a subset of the whole. Consistency. Shadows, shine, line width. Stuff like that.
<_MMA_> Lemmie look up his icon.
<_MMA_> Hmm... I'm unsure where it is.
<macvr> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=checkbox.png
<macvr> _MMA_: ^
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<_MMA_> Well, try it. We
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> We'll see how it works.
<macvr> Ok...
<_MMA_> Ok. I'm gonna write some emails then go enjoy the rest of my Saturday outside. Later.
<SiDi> see you _MMA_
<macvr> anyone knows what the default size of the panel is?
<artir> 25 pixels tall
<macvr> thanx :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-28
<_MMA_> macvr: Just email me the SVGs direct. I'll put 'em in now.
<macvr> _MMA_: i'm labelling them... thats why, i havent uploaded them
<_MMA_> Sure sure. I'm saying just to save you thr trouble of uploading them.
<macvr> ok
<_MMA_> PNGs are fine for show if you want to.
<macvr> _MMA_: also you might sleep well , >  I'v done them is all sizes ;p
<_MMA_> \m/
<macvr> _MMA_:  anything corrections you want or all is fine??
<_MMA_> This is fine for now. We can test them in the set. See what people think. Then adjust from there.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... what about the notify-osd icons matching these??
<_MMA_> Still gotta look into that but generally it sounds like a good idea.
<michote> _MMA_: could you explain what you mean with "brown tones" in the wiki on face-monkey?
<macvr> k...
<_MMA_> michote: Sure. It still feels a bit orange to me. I'd rather it look like a brown monkey. :)
<michote> _MMA_: ok, I'll try to find a less orange brown tone ;)
<_MMA_> michote: cool
<_MMA_> macvr: I /think/ one of the things that might get mentioned is dropping the shadows below say, 24px.
<_MMA_> We'll see.
<macvr> _MMA_: I tried that... but the white from the background comes through... I'v used the shadow just to minimize the white in between the curves
<macvr> _MMA_: 16px doesnt have it
<_MMA_> I'm talking about the drop shadow.
<_MMA_> On the ground.
<macvr> oh ... i like that :(
<_MMA_> Sure sure. But, it's a detail that will get lost at smaller sizes and with some themes.
<macvr> _MMA_: i got the idea from gnome colors... it looks good with a shadow.
<_MMA_> I'm not sayin' we nix it now. Just might be something to look at.
<macvr> _MMA_: as you always say " we cant think of all use cases " ;p
<macvr> default panel is the light grey, right?
<_MMA_> macvr: Ok. Ill say that with *all* dark themes the detail will get lost. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: if you keep chatting me up , you wont get the icons quickly
<_MMA_> I got all day. ;)
<macvr> well i dont! ;p
<macvr> if i dont do it now , i'd have to do it later...
<_MMA_> macvr: One thing I and many have learned is when to *not* respond. :)
<macvr> _MMA_: well, i wouldnt ... just that its rare to catch hold of YOU !
<_MMA_> No no. I'm on most nights for a few hours. (but there's a time diff there I guess) and every weekend.
<_MMA_> You kids and all yer free time. ;)
<macvr> ^ that just makes me feel younger :)
 * _MMA_ will be 33 in 5 days.
<SiDi> _MMA_: so your birthday is on 33rd of June ?
 * SiDi hides
 * _MMA_ notes his comment on learning when not to respond. (which in itself, is a response) :P
 * SiDi steals _MMA_'s note and makes a paper plane out of it
 * SiDi climbs on the plane and launches it towards an open window
<_MMA_> :P
 * SiDi falls from the 3rd floor and dies.
<_MMA_> Man. That was fun for a sec then got dark. :)
<SiDi> [A few hours later] Uggggh
<SiDi> Braiiiiiiiiiin
<thorwil> good to see everything is as usual with SiDi
<SiDi> thorwil: at least im not getting worse ? :D
<macvr> _MMA_: just sent you the nm icons...
<SiDi> and us ? :(
<macvr> SiDi: nothing for you ;p
<macvr> thorwil: did you check out the nm icons?
<thorwil> macvr: not until now
<macvr> when you are free, :)
<thorwil> macvr: the curves are a bit strange. how about using circle segments?
<macvr> it doesnt get displayed , properly... just keeps getting pixelated :(
<thorwil> macvr: the X on mm-signal-00 is too loud and is already supposed to have a different meaning elsewhere
<macvr> thorwil: dont worry about that X , it will *never* be used
<thorwil> macvr: if simply empty segments are not enough for 00, try a single slash /
<thorwil> macvr: the shadow on the floor makes no sense
<_MMA_> hehe. Told ya. :P
<macvr> _MMA_: since if the wireless signal is lost , the Ethernet disconnected icon , is displayed.. so no use working much on the 00 icon
<macvr> oops!
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<macvr> thorwil: i saw that shadow used in the gnome colors icon set, it looks nice when used in light panels... in dark panels it no issue
<thorwil> macvr: i would go for a flat-on-the-ground shadow like for document-x icons
<thorwil> or none at all
<thorwil> macvr: if you really want that floating above the ground look, you have to add depth to the segments
<macvr> I'm not sure which icon is document-x
<thorwil> macvr: i mean any one with a paper icon
<_MMA_> *Breathe network manager icons now in trunk (rev.88) and the packaging branch (rev.57).
 * _MMA_ has some wiki work to do.
<macvr> \o/
<macvr> thorwil: why does an icon need depth when we are assuming light from above? wouldnt the shadow be below?
<macvr> just like for the folders?
<_MMA_> macvr: Thing is, it's not really an object.
<thorwil> macvr: you need substance to cast shadow
<_MMA_> It's a representation.
<macvr> ah
<_MMA_> macvr: So while I will let things like this through based on an artistic want, I knew someone (thorwil mostly :P) would call you out on it. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: thorwil: maybe it needs to be like this > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-signal-25.png
<macvr> thats the gnome colors one
<_MMA_> macvr: Really, the opinion is the same. It's not really something of substance to cast a shadow.
<macvr> ... i dont mind if it doesnt have a shadow... but its just looks better on the panel, thats why i added it... could remove it though , shall i edit it?
<_MMA_> But I might go either way on this. Let's see what if any outcry there will be.
<macvr> ok we'll wait...
<_MMA_> Ouch. Something up with the wiki. (at least for me) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<SiDi> LP is dead, too
<_MMA_> ouch
<macvr> stupid servers!
<_MMA_> Maybe maintenance.
<macvr> lp was down just yday too!
<macvr> yesterday^
 * _MMA_ goes to make food/watch some TV. I'll get the /Icons pages updated today.
 * macvr corrects before _MMA_ reacts
<macvr> andreasn: can you take a look at this> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387834
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 387834 in hundredpapercuts "Too easy too accidentally "Remove from Panel", icon not very recognizable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<macvr> I'm not sure of the icon label
<andreasn> what label? the one saying "Remove From Panel"?
<andreasn> in gnome-icon-theme trunk, we recently changed the delete icon to a red sign looking like this (/)
<andreasn> so changing the icon from gtk-remove to gtk-delete in the panel would get the desired effect once we get a release of that out
<andreasn> and gtk-delete might be a better choice in this situation, as the gtk-remove links to a icon called list-remove
<andreasn> and nothing is getting removed from a list in this case
<andreasn> oh, if you delete a launcher from the desktop, it's called "move to trash", but if you do it in the panel it's called "remove from panel"
<macvr> andreasn: could you pls add your comment to the launchpad page, so that it could be easy to track?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-28
<coz_> ;
<coz_> '
<thorwil> "
<vish> '"'
 * darkmatter pokes vish in the eye with a spare syringe
<kwwii> hey, if anyone is looking to work on a logo...
<knome> kwwii, for money? :P
<kwwii> 21:41 <czajkowski> I was wondering if you could possibly help me.  I need a  logo for the Ubuntu LoCo Health Check -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck   something that we when we blog we can use the image/jpeg
<kwwii> knome: lol, nope
<knome> aww :P
<coz_> ;
<darkmatter> :;
<knome> !:;
<vish> |!:;
<knome> Â¡|!:;
<vish> :Â¡|!:;
<knome> ;:Â¡|!:;
<darkmatter> ;:i|!:!|i:;
<thorwil> do you all suffer from hot weather, too? :)
<knome> bah
<kwwii> thorwil: it is not that hot
<knome> thorwil, kwwii means the weather is not as hot as you are
<kwwii> be lucky that it actually gets warm and sunny for a few weeks in this god forsaken land
<kwwii> going to get my bike fixed, bbiab
<thorwil> kwwii really loves my country :)
<thorwil> ok, so it's not even quite 30Â°C, but form some reason it feels like 35 in here. "in here" is likely the actual problem, to be solved later, for a bit
<coz_> ;
<doctormo> kwwii: I decided to seed with an entrant and I've been poking other artists into action too http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Electronic-Ubuntu-169288271
<kwwii> doctormo: killer
<kwwii> doctormo: I like that
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-29
<coz_> ;
<coz_> '
<darkmatter> o/
<thorwil> \o
<vish> \o/
<vish>  | |
<vish> bleh , coz_ no more playing with you ;p
<coz_> vish,  ah oh what did I do ?
<vish> you start off with something like " <coz_> '   "  , and it gets us all worked up ;)
<coz_> lol
<coz_> vish,  oh sorry  my xchat keeps opening with scrollback at the beginning instead of end where I left off
<darkmatter> lol
<coz_> vish,  so I either /clear ot type some nonsense to get it back
<coz_> sorry guys  apparenlty  this is irritiationg
<coz_> ittitating
<coz_> I am getting complaints from each channel
<darkmatter> haha! no more gcsf injections :D
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> I was getting sick and tired of poking myself in the stomach :P
<coz_> darkmatter,  no doubt..that had to be a pain  << no pun intended
<darkmatter> tomorrow bloodwork, dr's appointment on monday, and then maybe they'll leave me alone for a few weeks
<coz_> darkmatter,  are you otherwise feeling ok  yes?
<darkmatter> cozafter having nurses poke you repeatedly for a couple weeks it's a pain in more ways than one ;)
<darkmatter> yup. feeling fine
<coz_> cool
<kwwii> good morning
<darkmatter> coz_: though I must admit, the hospital stay was actually kinda enjoyable at times. the nurses in the chemo ward are sweethearts and most of them are drop-dead gorgeous ;o
<darkmatter> morn' kwwii
<kwwii> hi darkmatter
<thorwil> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/06/28/first-fedora-design-ninja-identified
<thorwil> lack of hyphenation and bad fonts drag that down, but otherwise it ain't bad
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-30
<kwwii> oooh, slashdot is down
<vish> thorwil: kwwii: i added a re-direct from the  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/VisualIdentity  page to  Artwork/official..
<vish> several keep asking where it went , so seemed easier than , redirecting everytime :D
<thorwil> vish: the wiki notifcation was faster than you :)
<vish> ;p
<thorwil> awesome, my test messages to my new address all had been tagged as spam, leaving me wondering why forwarding didn't work
<thorwil> would someone be so kind to send a mail with a bit of meaningless but non-spammy content to self@thorsten-wilms.com ?
<vish> thorwil: sent.. ;)
<thorwil> ty!
<vish> grr , extra "am"  :(
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> worked!
<vish> thorwil: "self" is an odd name for you id though ;)
<vish> your*
<thorwil> vish: i just OKed a send receipt from the address this was forwarded to, so that should fail
<vish> bah.. /me calls it a day!
<vish> thorwil: i received it , from t_w@...
<thorwil> http://kwwii.blogspot.com/2010/06/doing-polka-step-by-step.html
<thorwil> kwwii: nice post. what is your book going to be about?
<kwwii> thorwil: the life and times of an under-paid designer
<thorwil> aww, cool :)
 * thorwil hits the road
<kwwii> I'm heading out in a bit as well
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-01
<kwwii> thorwil: I though about making an open project to find and package fonts
<kwwii> thorwil: sound like a good idea?
<kwwii> it is something that anyone could help with
<thorwil> kwwii: perhaps. a few quality fonts beat thousands of crappy ones, so quality control would be an issue
<thorwil> kwwii: you could start with a how-to-package-fonts and a Wanted list and see if that works. i would avoid encouraging/accepting to have every font out there with acceptable license packaged
<thorwil> oh, and installing fonts is easy enough that using packages *almost* feels odd
 * thorwil -> coffee
<kwwii> thorwil: true, on both counts
<kwwii> thorwil: if we have a list and a collection we can show examples and let people vote on the best, etc
<kwwii> offering an easy way to get them
<kwwii> packaging would be for groups of fonts
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-02
<thorwil> a rather humble start, but a start: http://www.thorsten-wilms.com/
<vish> thorwil: neat! .
<thorwil> ty
<vish> thorwil: btw , what font have you used for the title ..
<vish> hmm looks like it could use hinting
<thorwil> vish: it started as Gilius, but after lots of edits, scaling it down and adjusting it to the pixel grid, it's pretty much entirely custom now
<vish> yeah ,guessed so :)
<thorwil> vish: hinting? why/where?
<thorwil> gotta run, dinner, bbl
<vish> you might wanna watch out for the "s"
<vish> hmm,and most of the curves
 * vish tries in chromium
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-03
<thorwil> kwwii: on the new CoF, the "horizontal" edges of the right gap between the "bodies" are actually not horizontal. the nodes have different Y coords
<thorwil> only looked at SVG version
<thorwil> well, seems to be the same and symmetrical for all gaps, so i guess that's intentional. shame i didn't see it before placing a rectangle there :/
 * thorwil draws a vuvuzela and blows the paper
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-07-04
<darkmatter> http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/mclasen/files/2010/05/Screenshot-System-Settings.png <---barftastic
<doctormo> darkmatter: That's bad right
<darkmatter> ya
<darkmatter> it's too cluttered. ala mac and kde (gnome already did the mac thing years ago for the c-c. it failed hard and was killed). even the current shell (with the sidebar thingy) is cleaner
<darkmatter> if I want to stare at a bazillion tightly packed icons I'll use gnome-shell ;)
<thorwil> morning!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-28
<woutervddn> hey guys, I'm giving a presentation in the European Parliament in a few days about Unity. But I can't seem to find unity artwork (that is the logo)
<woutervddn> any ideas where it is?
<thorwil> woutervddn: there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unity_Logo.svg
<thorwil> woutervddn: but looking at http://unity.ubuntu.com/, it seems there is no official logo
<woutervddn> aah, lovely.. thx..
<woutervddn> lol,, yeah I already thought it was something like that :)
<thorwil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unity_Logo.svg is terrible, don't use it
<etneg> palhmbs: hey you around dude?
<Guest51147> hi
<troy_s> Guest51147: Hi.
<Guest51147> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-07-03
<etneg> sooo
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-06-27
<Zonack> Hi there !
<Zonack> Anyone here?
#ubuntu-artwork 2018-06-26
<andres_> hi guis...does anyone have some cool wallpapers?
