#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-14
<charlie-tca> xubuntu 10.04.2 386 images will not boot at all
<charlie-tca> any help with these would be great! cjwatson will look in about 3 hours 
<charlie-tca> problem found
<charlie-tca> w00t! 10.04.2 with 10.04 LTS docs even... also got firefox 3.6.13
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: busy? my Xubuntu amd64 desktop image for 10.04.2 is oversize and I need to try and get it down 10MB or so
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg :  Xubuntu amd64 desktop image for 10.04.2 is oversize and I need to try and get it down 8-10MB or so. the image is at 704MB now
<micahg> charlie-tca: classically that has meant to drop a language pack
<charlie-tca> how/who do I do that?
<micahg> charlie-tca: that I don't know :)
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> thanks, at least I got that much now
<micahg> at least I think that's what Ubuntu does
<charlie-tca> powerpc images will stay oversize, too
<cody-somerville> to drop language packages, we update the seeds
<cody-somerville> although I'm curious how it got oversized. Our releases usually leave a fair bit of room I thought.
<charlie-tca> I think the new docs did it, but I am not positive
<charlie-tca> Can we update and make it fit a cd again?
<cody-somerville> FYI, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/567059/
<cody-somerville> release amd64 was 695M, amd64 is now 704M
<charlie-tca> yeah, I need to make it 700 or less again
<micahg> Firefox and Thunderbird updates probably didn't help with size
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: can you remove a language pack?
<cody-somerville> yea
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> I seem pretty determined to get this one, huh?
<cody-somerville> xubuntu-docs is only 1.9Mbs btw
<micahg> why do we need byobu?
<charlie-tca> oh, that ain it then
<charlie-tca> byobu makes using a tty easier, if you don't have the gui up
 * charlie-tca don't really know the answer, though
<cody-somerville> byobu is included in the other desktop seeds too
<micahg> Thunderbird increased .7 and Firefox .6 MB
<micahg> it's only 77k
<cody-somerville> hmm.. I don't think this is going to be as easy as we'd like
<charlie-tca> yeah, but lots of those "only" bits add up
<charlie-tca> oh-oh
<cody-somerville> ah, never mind. language packages aren't a part of the xubuntu meta package
<micahg> well, 10.04.3 will probably be harder as we'll probably have a bug jump in Firefox size (3-5MB)
<charlie-tca> hm, this is different for me. I never got quite this deep into the image, I guess.
<charlie-tca> we won't spin that image. Normally, we only get the first .1 image, then we are done with the LTS
<charlie-tca> Since we did not get the .1, I pushed for the .2
<micahg> oh, ok, well, it'll probably be Firefox 4, idk if that's worth updating for
<micahg> or maybe even 5 :)
<cody-somerville> might as well do .3 if we can ;) we can always use the experience
<charlie-tca> Okay, I'm willing then
<charlie-tca> Pretty soon they will think we are real again, though
<charlie-tca> hm, are we ready to respin the image now?
<cody-somerville> not yet
<charlie-tca> okay
<micahg> charlie-tca: isn't that a good thing (being real)?
<charlie-tca> sure, if we can do it
<charlie-tca> I think it would be great to build us up again
<charlie-tca> and it would help mr_pouit too, if they would listen to us once in while, at least ;-)
<cody-somerville> bzr branch lp:langpack-o-matic 
<cody-somerville> oops
<cody-somerville> mischan
<cody-somerville> how about droping bn, hi, and ar? That'll free up 7.59 all together.
<cody-somerville> (Mb)
<micahg> wow, I thought the langpacks were 10MB each :(
<cody-somerville> es, pt, de, and fr are all over 10MB
<cody-somerville> es and fr are closer to 20MB
<cody-somerville> alright, no objections? committing now.
<charlie-tca> yes, bn, hi, and ar sounds good
<cody-somerville> done
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-15
<Sysi> how working natty currently is? my test machine is pretty broken, is it because of too long update cycle or update from maverick
<Sysi> ..now boots only RO, i do a reinstall
<mr_pouit> The xfce part is stable (except changes in default apps and default configs). The rest of the system I don't know, but at least it runs in vbox (however, it's a kernel -rc4, not that recommended on production ;-)
<charlie-tca> abiword is breaking the images
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Alternate i386 10.04.2 failed to install
<charlie-tca> http://paste.ubuntu.com/567312
<charlie-tca> line 3375
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: is that something we need to fix, or will the -release need to kick something again?
<mr_pouit> for 10.04.2, I don't know, I've not been following what happened, sorry
<charlie-tca> I can't make the image install, first attempts. The original image published this weekend failed because it was not a valid image (Release-team fixed it, since they caused it)
<charlie-tca> With it being abiword plugins, is that something we need to fix, or is it something they changed beyond our reach and they need to fix it?
<charlie-tca> 64-bit image does not fail 
<charlie-tca> at least it did not yesterday
<mr_pouit> I don't see any recent change of abiword in lucid, so they broke something else
<charlie-tca> thanks for looking
<mark76> Did you know Midori now adds a direct link to the Ubuntu forums to your applications menu?
<charlie-tca> That's a nice touch. Hope they will allow easy import of bookmark files soon.
<mark76> Yeah, the bookmarks protocol does need work
<cody-somerville> wow. simplescan not so work nicely in maverick, lol
<charlie-tca> it isn't ?
<charlie-tca> It did when I was using maverick
<cody-somerville> No. I just scanned an expense report in and it took each page and put it twice on the same page, side by side
<cody-somerville> really rather weird
<cody-somerville> and then when I saved it as pdf, the pdf was corrupt
<charlie-tca> well, that isn't right
 * cody-somerville will poke Robert with a stick to get it fixed.
<micahg> it worked for me fine, parts are just counterintuitive
<mark76> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkT7u6fJqO4&feature=related
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-17
<micahg> charlie-tca: I have to leave at 20:00 UTC today
<charlie-tca> okay. Le's try and keep the meeting short
<charlie-tca> I am still trying to finish the 10.04.2 iso testing
<knome> charlie-tca, what's the status in the wallpaper discussion?
<knome> charlie-tca, iirc, the submission deadline was last thu
<charlie-tca> no
<knome> no?
<charlie-tca> deadline is March 10
<knome> hmm...
<charlie-tca> UserInterfaceFreeze is March 24
<knome> right
<knome> where did i read last thu then. probably have mixed the months
<charlie-tca> yeah, probably
<charlie-tca> It's okay, the schedule been juggled a couple of times now for natty
<charlie-tca> It is hard to keep track of things
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i don't know if you noticed but there was a short break in the wikiservice, which is fixed now.
<charlie-tca> yeah?
<charlie-tca> ain't had a chance to notice 
<knome> no problem then. (i meant wiki.knome.fi of course..)
<knome> it's a bit slower than it used to be, but i can't do much about it since i changed the hosting plan
<charlie-tca> No, I don't hit that unless someone tells me I need to get an update
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 15 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: meeting?
<micahg> ochosi: I have to leave right after the meeting, but maybe later
<ochosi> micahg: ok, just one thing that i wanted to note: you said you're packaging gmusicbrowser for debian too, and last time i said it would be better to package upstream directly for debian
<ochosi> micahg: but maybe i forgot to mention that for xubuntu we want the shimmer-version of gmusicbrowser
<micahg> I was working on packaging upstream gmusicbrowser for Debian
<ochosi> okeydokey
<micahg> does upstream not want the shimmer patches?
<ochosi> well squentin said he will integrate them all for the next stable version, but who knows how long it'll take for that one
<knome> the gmb main is going to include the shimmer layout, but not as default
<ochosi> he's already integrating them bit by bit
<micahg> ok, well we can add the shimmer stuff on top in Ubuntu
<ochosi> yeah, the default layout, icon theme etc is another thing
<micahg> I just wanted to get the base in Debian updated
<ochosi> but currently the layout won't work with the upstream version
<micahg> is the release stable enough (1.1.6 is marked a beta release upstream)
<ochosi> yes, definitely stable enough
<ochosi> i've been testing the 1.1.* versions for a year now
<micahg> ok
<micahg> I should be able to get it in before feature freeze
<ochosi> ok thanks micahg 
<charlie-tca> micahg: that is the 24th
<micahg> charlie-tca: I know, I have Monday off :)
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> micahg: so monday would be a good deadline for us to have gmusicbrowser-shimmer ready for xubuntu?
<micahg> ochosi: I think so
<micahg> ochosi: are you thinking a separate package or just patches?
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll work hard on it, the list (http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:natty_gmb) seems manageable
<ochosi> micahg: i would rather have a separate package, although i guess i could try and track the changes i did in the last year
<micahg> ochosi: with just the shimmer changes or all of gmusicbrowser?
<ochosi> micahg: separate package would mean all of gmusicbrowser i guess...
<ochosi> micahg: tbh i always assumed we would just take the packages from the shimmer ppa
<mr_pouit> are the changes big? or is it only the layout?
<micahg> ochosi: I don't like the idea of a full fork, especially if the changes are being integrated, but I think we should ask mr_pouit :)
<ochosi> well, the changes are really mainly to the ui, so not drastic
<ochosi> if anyone helps me with patches or other ways of using an additional "shimmer" package i'm fine with that
<micahg> mr_pouit: what you you think of just included those patches in gmusicbrowser itself
<mr_pouit> I would prefer to have only one gmusicbrowser
<mr_pouit> since the patches are going to be included upstream anyway, it sounds ok to ship them in gmusicbrowser
<mr_pouit> but we can still split the new layout in xubuntu-default-settings and enable it by default only there
<ochosi> if you like we can discuss the changes i did later
<ochosi> i mean maybe not today later, but tomorrow or something
<ochosi> mr_pouit, micahg: i can also talk about this with upstream, but the thing is that the deadline (monday) is really tough for that
<micahg> ochosi: next week is feature freeze, so I should just get 1.1.6 in, if you're just making UI changes, we have another month
<Sysi> i'm getting new natty image and i noticed our cdimage.ubuntu.com site is orange, do we have any control over it?
<Sysi> kubuntu site is blue
<charlie-tca> we don't have much control over it, no
<charlie-tca> I will try to find out if we can get it changed
<charlie-tca> I never actually noticed that, Sysi 
<charlie-tca> thanks
<charlie-tca> If Kubuntu can be blue, we should be able to change the banner color
<davmor2> cdimages or xubuntu's download page?
<charlie-tca> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
<charlie-tca> is not the same as Ubuntu 
<Sysi> download page is alright, but links to orange pages
<davmor2> yeah that should be themeable let me have a quick chat with our web guys to see if it's them or someone else who deals with it
<charlie-tca> compared to http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
<Sysi> 10.04 don't have banner, brown topics aren't that bad
<charlie-tca> note to the website team:
<charlie-tca> We give links to both 10.04 and 10.10 mirrors, but never explain what the difference is on http://xubuntu.org/get
<beardygnome> hi charlie-tca, did i miss the whole meeting?
<charlie-tca> um, yeah
<charlie-tca> I will get the minutes out this time, though
<charlie-tca> We want natty testers
<beardygnome> just download the latest iso and get log any bugs to the ml?
<beardygnome> *and log...
<charlie-tca> If you are in a hurry, http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/
<Sysi> i will learn bug reporting too..
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> We will teach you how to report the bugs. But that is the idea, download the latest iso, install it and check it out, every couple of days, to see what got messed up
<charlie-tca> example, abiword and gnumeric
<beardygnome> we on alpha 2 now?
<charlie-tca> latest versions changed how the background and forground colors work, and are blacking out text
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> use the daily - 
<charlie-tca> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/
<charlie-tca> in current
<charlie-tca> That has the latest changes in it
<beardygnome> is there a torrent for it, or do we just hammer the ubuntu servers?
<charlie-tca> no torrent. either hammer or zsync it
<charlie-tca> there won't be enough of us for them to even notice, will there?
<beardygnome> ok - are there any differences between the the 32 and 64 bit images (other than the obvious!)?
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> They should match
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: although some days, one will work and the other won't :-)
<beardygnome> ok, thanks charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Thank you for doing that
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-18
<mr_pouit> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/568730/ << here's the diff between squentin/gmusicbrowser.git (upstream) and ochosi/gmusicbrowser.git (shimmer), if you're wondering about the size of the delta
<mr_pouit> (it seems to be mostly plugin/layout changes)
<ochosi> micahg: one more note on that one: i talked to upstream yesterday and the changes will be minimal because he said he'll integrate most of my changes till next week
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<pleia2> charlie-tca: woo, wordpress! Mind if I create a xubuntu-website team as Ng suggests?
<knome> what? we got that this quick?
<knome> pleia2, btw, if you need to send email to me; use pasi@shimmerproject.org - i'll still read the old mail but..
<knome> :)
<pleia2> knome: oh ok :)
<knome> but really, no problem with using the old mail either, i think i'll never stop reading it... ;)
<knome> (things are forwarded to my main @knome.fi account)
<charlie-tca> I just got back
<charlie-tca> pleia2: sure, let's create it, and probably make https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team a member of it
<pleia2> ok
<charlie-tca> nice to see this moving!
<pleia2> oh hey https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website
<pleia2> hmm, wonder why I didn't see that before
<pleia2> cody-somerville will have to add us
<pleia2> or vinnl
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: we need to add pleia2 and knome to the https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website team so we can keep moving on a transition to wordpress
<charlie-tca> right?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> I'll follow up with an email of the ticket to him and vinnl so they are kept in the RT loop
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for helping
<charlie-tca> pleia2, knome : along with migrating from drupal to wordpress, I think we should be looking at sending our news releases to the planet. I know kubuntu is doing so already
<pleia2> yeah, mythbuntu does too
<charlie-tca> progress is a very good thing
<pleia2> :)
<charlie-tca> got to give credit to knome, too. He planted the idea originally.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I also applied for ~xubuntu-team
<charlie-tca> great. :-)
<pleia2> hm, but maybe I shouldn't have, since that team is mostly just proposed
<charlie-tca> It is just that those on the team need to discuss the proposed members and approve them
<charlie-tca> and we are probably behind
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> charlie-tca, i can add the xubuntu news to planet once we've set everything with wp up
<charlie-tca> Great! now we just keep going with it, right?
<knome> yup.
<knome> i added a bug about that do we don't forget it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/721500
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 721500 in Xubuntu Website "Link Xubuntu news to Ubuntu Planet" [Undecided,New]
<knome> once i get approved to the team, i'll assign that to me
<charlie-tca> that works
<knome> that's just a reminder though, it's really easy to fix/accomplish...
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-19
<Sysi> is it bug or a feature that natty's ubiquity needs 512MB ram ans 256MB swap at minimum to install?
<Sysi> i tried without swap because of old ssd and it failed
<mark76> Morning
<charlie-tca> Sysi: what release has those requirements?
<charlie-tca> I install in 384MB ram all the time
<Sysi> some days old natty daily
<Sysi> you have more swap?
<charlie-tca> I normally give my installs 1GB swap
<charlie-tca> natty is development version, it will vary up to the final release
<charlie-tca> I have not seen the final specs for natty yet. I do an install using 256MB ram before the final release is out, though. Ubuntu will require more ram then Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-20
<Sysi> newest (yesterday 19.) daily is missing nm-applet
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, pidgin is really unusable in natty
<ochosi> mr_pouit: installing xfce4-indicator-plugin and adding it to the panel doesn't make pidgin show up
<ochosi> mr_pouit: it doesn't seem to have any extra dependencies and only one recommend (messages)
<mr_pouit> yeah, then you probably need indicator-messages
<ochosi> crap, then we always have the stupid "email"-icon in the systray-region...
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, with indicator-messages it works
<ochosi> mr_pouit: does thunderbird at least integrate with that?
<mr_pouit> micahg might know that
<ochosi> seems that by default it's not in the message-menu
<mr_pouit> ochosi: is there an option in pidgin to use the systray?
<ochosi> good question, i'll have a look
<mr_pouit> then we could ship a default config in xubuntu-default-settings for that
<ochosi> hah, yeah there is
<ochosi> and it still works
<ochosi> it's just deactivated by default
<ochosi> wondering whether there are any other apps (transmission?) that use indicators by default
<ochosi> also xchat is a possible candidate
<ochosi> oh dear, transmission also doesn't show up in the systray
<ochosi> i mean it still works as an application since its systray-icon is deactivated by default, so closing the window exits the app
<ochosi> but it's still a loss of functionality, and the systray-option in transmission simply doesn't work (even with the indicator-plugin)
<mr_pouit> now you understand the "I don't care, I'm THE ubuntu gtk desktop" attitude ;>
<ochosi> yuck
<ochosi> well good catch on your side though, at least we still have some (even if little) time
<ochosi> xchat still works btw
<ochosi> i mean: as expected
<Sysi> side note: we still have gigolo in natty default installation, shouldn't be needed anymore
<mr_pouit> Sysi: no, it's still useful
<mr_pouit> because you can't bookmark remote locations in thunar
<ochosi> mr_pouit: the resize-grip overlays the account-image in pidgin's right lower corner :)
<Sysi> alright 
<ochosi> hm, we also still have vinagre installed even though i have no clue why
<mr_pouit> remote desktop thing
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> but: why?
<mr_pouit> maybe we can remove it, i've no idea if someone actually uses it
<knome> remote desktop viewer? vinagre?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: could you make that a point of discussion in the next meeting: discussion whether to keep/remove vinagre by default?
<knome> i do use that :)
<knome> though, i don't see much need to install it by default
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> mr_pouit: is there anything we can do to make thunar start up faster?
<ochosi> i know we discussed this a few times already but the issue is still there
<mr_pouit> I don't think so =[
<ochosi> awwhh...
<ochosi> that's really bad, because everyone will notice that
<mr_pouit> it depends on something gvfs related
<mr_pouit> it starts fast in a vm for me, but is very slow on my normal system
<Sysi> deleting files is also slower now
<Sysi> i haven't noticed that startup lag badly
<Sysi> ..it is slow, at least some times
<ochosi> mr_pouit: do you think it makes sense to contact jannis about it? (or have you already?)
<mr_pouit> he's already aware of that afaik
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> mr_pouit: not sure what we should do, either add xfce4-indicator-plugin by default or set pidgin to use the trayicon
<ochosi> (the fact that transmission's trayicon is gone really sucks independantly of that)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: exo-default menu-items and launchers work and look great so far, just tested them again with a clean user
<mr_pouit> nice, thanks for testing
<ochosi> np
<charlie-tca> ochosi: added to agenda
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi : I thought I read that Xfce 4.10 will use xfce4-indicator-plugin by default. If so, shouldn't we look at switching to it and get people used to that thing?
<charlie-tca> Could be failing to remember too, though
<ochosi> hm, if that's true then that could be a good argument to add it to the panel
<ochosi> but i don't remember hearing anything like that
<charlie-tca> maybe mr_pouit knows for sure. I don't want to do it if it isn't going to there.
<mr_pouit> it's not in the 4.10 roadmap so I wouldn't count on indicator support to be added to the panel
<charlie-tca> oh, then it is failing memory :-)
<mr_pouit> xfce4-indicator-plugin is available anyway, and improvements/bugfixes are probably welcome
<Sysi> we still use system-config printer gnome instead of xfprint4?
<mr_pouit> xfprint4 is deprecated and unmaintained
<mr_pouit> only mousepad still uses it I think
<Sysi> ah
<Sysi> it's pretty hard to eep track on things when distroes do everything differently
<knome> eep eep eep!
<knome> EEP!
<ochosi> :)
<micahg> ochosi: I think chrisccoulson will be working on messaging integration, but idr if that's this cycle or next cycle
<ochosi> micahg: right, atm there doesn't seem to be ootb integration for thunderbird
<ochosi> in fact for me that would be an argument not to integrate the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> but we can discuss that thursday
<charlie-tca> If we are not going to see the indicator pluin in 4.10, we are spinning our wheels debating it at all. 
<ochosi> well the plugin will be there, just (maybe) no native support in the panel
<ochosi> tbh i prefer the plugin solution to native panel support
<charlie-tca> Then the user can install it, right?
<ochosi> not all distros have/use the indicators
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> we can even decide to install it by default but not add it to the panel by default (much like verve or dict)
<ochosi> that would make it easier for users who decide they want/need the indicators
<micahg> indicator support should come next cycle as we consider moving Ubuntu to Thunderbird as a default
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I don't understand what you mean. We already have several panel plugins in the default install
<mr_pouit> and they are not part of the panel
<charlie-tca> I am thinking way ahead, will the plugin be maintained by the time 4.10 hits? If we put it in the panel, and it doesn't keep up, what happens?
<ochosi> that could theoretically happen to any plugin
<charlie-tca> true
<charlie-tca> kind of like "places", I guess
<ochosi> yeah, much like that
<charlie-tca> okay, if it needs discussion, add it to the agenda, otherwise, let mr_pouit decide
<ochosi> hm, the main thing that bugs me about the indicator-plugin is that it seemingly doesn't work for stuff like transmission
<ochosi> that suggests that other apps might just as well not work
<ochosi> and with transmission it's really a pity, that they patched away the systray-support
 * surreal7z is away: rolling a joint
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-13
<wai0004> Hello?
<knome>  
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-14
<knome> madnick, !!!!!!
<madnick> knome: !!!!
<knome> madnick, where's the lightdm and plymouth code?
<knome> madnick, and the lightdm settings gui
<madnick> 1 sec
<knome> i suppose it would be helpul if you could set up a repository in launchpad for those so mr_pouit could access it easily
<madnick> http://79.99.1.99/~madnick/lightdm.tar.gz
<madnick> yes
<madnick> ill set it up
<knome> thanks a lot
<knome> is there something that is not functioning?
<madnick> tho i have to tell you
<madnick> The plymouth stuff, if deadline is now, will only be some bug fixes
<knome> i suppose that's okay, it wasn't bad last time either
<knome> we just need to change the wall
<knome> let's concentrate on the lightdm stuff then
<madnick> yes, and also the lightdm config thing has some hardcoded stuff i will swap out
<madnick> which is like 10 lines of code tho
<knome> yes, we can still apply bug fixes after FF
<madnick> so it can be done now
<madnick> oh okay
<madnick> goodie
<knome> but we need the feature to be uploaded
<madnick> its today right?
<knome> no, thu
<madnick> iirc
<madnick> oh sweet
<knome> so two days
<knome> but mr_pouit needs time
<madnick> yes
<knome> so let's try to upload asap
<knome> and then get on with the bugfixes
<madnick> i will get it up today, and then just get on wit
<madnick> yes
<knome> and once we get the lightdm settings GUI installed, i can get on with the translations for it
<madnick> sweet
<knome> i set the plymouth theme as done, but the mastermind to postponed
<madnick> okay
<madnick> i really wish i wouldve had more time to workon this stuff
<knome> well yeah, we all have to win the bread too
<madnick> yeah that is the curse :(
<knome> so could you push the code for the three things to bzr like, now? ;)
<madnick> as soon as i locate my key hehe
<knome> sure ;)
<knome> madnick, !! :P
<madnick> knome: i am reading about creating a new key, i already made one, but it was not in vbox, whjere my code is, so i need to redo it, or move it :) then i need to setup bzr
<knome> heh
<madnick> Its a new install, thus the problems :(
<knome> yeah
<knome> i got to go now
<knome> i'll be back later
<knome> ask mr_pouit if you need something
<knome> madnick, ^
<madnick> :)
<madnick> okay
<madnick> created the stuff
<madnick> now time for sleep
<madnick> :)
<madnick> oops
<madnick> forgot to commit
<madnick> now sleep :)
<pleia2> http://linuxlibrary.org/reviews/xubuntu-11-10-review/
<pleia2> (added to /press)
 * knome wonders if we should tweet all the articles we found
<pleia2> maybe, I don't know if I can sustain that though (blog posts and meetings, ok, more than that...)
<knome> maybe we can share the password
<pleia2> yes, if there is someone else who wants to help, please :)
<knome> and if you ping the channel or change the press page anyway, i can just tweet
 * ochosi tested greybird with gnome3 today, it actually works and looks ok
<ochosi> maybe i'll check what is needed for proper gnome-shell support
<nanotube> knome: tweet, wazzat? is that similar to irc? *_* :)
<knome> nanotube, :P
<knome> madnick, !!!!!! :P
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-15
<pleia2> Unit193: re: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-February/000429.html the "No behind-the-scenes news in the public like details on how development is taking place." is an interesting comment
<pleia2> I've had mixed feelings about whether we should be posting links to our meeting minutes and stuff
<pleia2> but I think their point is that our site should be a polished product type thing for people, not full of confusing devel stuff
<pleia2> so I'll do a call for help with marketing stuff on my blog and on our -devel mailing list, finished marketing products can go as a blog post on xubuntu.org :)
<Unit193> Well, that's just what one person thinks, but a summery of what the outcome is could be interesting.  I was just making a simple note of someone elses comment on the site.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> feedback is good :)
<Unit193> Oh, I'm on devel.
<nanotube> well, devel stuff can be there, just be a little more buried. (like, under the 'developers' link somewhere)
<nanotube> i think he just means there's no stuff like "we've just decided to change keyboard shortcuts in the next release" right on the front page.
<ochosi> micahg: hey, i was recently approached by the gmb dev because there are a few annoying bugs in the version in oneiric (already fixed in git) and he wanted to ask whether it would be possible to backport the fixes â people keep asking about them in the forum etc.
<micahg> ochosi: if they're cherry picked, sure
<micahg> we would also need test cases
<knome> madnick, !!!!!!
<madnick> knome: i did upload it
<madnick> didnt you see my message?
<knome> madnick, actually no :)
<knome> in that case...
<knome> mr_pouit, !!!!!!
<madnick> :)
<madnick> brb, gonna make food
<knome> bon appetit
<mr_pouit> is it lp:~dr-madnick/+junk/ldm-zoo branch?
<mr_pouit> (no license, no build system, and many hardcoded things in there. And I'm supposed to test and upload it today...)
<knome> mr_pouit, we can fix bugs after FF, right?
<knome> madnick, can you elaborate with mr_pouit and create a build system and work with him on the issue generally?
<mr_pouit> madnick: knome: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/zoo-greeter-0.0.1.tar.gz <<< here's your branch with a quick'n'dirty autotoolization done (you need to fill in author(s), copyright holder(s), the correct license, add a license header for each vala file, etc...)
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks A LOT :)
<mr_pouit> still many things to fix though :(
<knome> yeah.
<knome> let's try to get it uploaded for now and then start fixing things.
<mr_pouit> it won't even build here:
<knome> could that even go in xubuntu-default-settings for now?
<mr_pouit> virtualkeyboard.vala:42.26-42.27: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert from `int' to `Gdk.NativeWindow' keyboard_socket.add_id(id);
<mr_pouit> or xubuntu-artwork, yeah
<knome> i know that's not the cleanest approach, but i know that's been done before
<knome> mm-hmm
<mr_pouit> someone who knows vala need to look at it too
<knome> so, let me just double-check: even if it's uploaded we don't need to use it, if it doesn't seem to work?
<mr_pouit> well, it'd be better if it could be in its own package (xubuntu-artwork/xubuntu-default-settings only ship data files, not programs)
<mr_pouit> I think it's best to fix it before the upload (it should be okay for an exception)
<knome> yes, of course
<knome> okay
<mr_pouit> anyway, bbl
<knome> okay, see you, and thanks
<madnick> guys, i cannot begin to tell you how sorry i am, but i have another business meeting over dinner, then i need to go on the bus back to my town
<knome> well, if we're going to have an exception anyway, it's not a matter of hours
<madnick> basically, not even all the source is used to build it, and there was a mod in libwebkit's vala "header"
<madnick> i am truly sorry about this
<knome> np. just let's do everything we can to fix it
<madnick> i have the a build file, well not a real one, but a script, in virtualbox
<madnick> which i can use the compile line to automate it etc
<knome> if i knew about build files and such, i'd use my own time to try to fix it
<knome> but really, just don't panic. go to your meeting, take your time and get back to it when you can
<knome> i'd like to see it in a near-finished state in a week from now, or we might have to think about using the old lightdm theme with just wallpaper updated
<madnick> Yes, to be honest, I am not sure this greeter is worthy, I have not had nearly enough time to be happy about the result
<knome> (week because then we still have time before the UI freeze without exceptions if we don't decide to use the new greeter
<knome> right, i see
<madnick> But Ill code and build as much as I can
<madnick> and if you dont wanna use it
<madnick> Then it is fine either way
<knome> okay, we'll be more wise next week
<knome> and we can use it in P+1 anyway
<knome> i don't want to have big problems on boot with an LTS...
<madnick> Indeed, nobody wants that
 * knome mentally prepares or using the old lightdm theme
<Unit193> But at the same time, you want it to look nice as that means a lot for first impression.
<knome> of course.
<madnick> If I'd known sooner how this business thing would turn out, I would've taken on a lot less, perhaps just modified the current greeter to look better
<knome> but looks still can't jeopardize stability :)
<Unit193> I'd guess you can't quite upload it as an option later for Pangolin?
<knome> SRU's are possible
<knome> but that's the smallest concern now
<Unit193> Well yeah.
<ochosi> will there be enough time to improve the looks of the current greeter?
<madnick> I got to go now
<ochosi> i mean it really looks like logging into windows-nt
<knome> imo that's not TOO bad...
<ochosi> see ya later madnick ;)
<knome> it's a bit plain and somewhat ugly, but it works
<ochosi> sure, but it could be easy to improve at least a bit
<madnick> I will be coding as much as I can, Ill get back to you when I get home
<madnick> -->
<knome> okay.
<knome> thanks
<knome> ochosi, but yeah, just trying to improve the current look would work as well.
<knome> ochosi, just feels a bit lukewarm, doesn't it?
<ochosi> i mean just to be sure not to have the same ugly greeter again
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> it's nothing much
<knome> i don't know we can do about it
<ochosi> but probably better than nothing
<knome> maybe. that'd mean we should drop working on the new greeter NOW
<ochosi> not sure, i dunno how hard it would be to slightly tweak the current greeter
<ochosi> but really, i'd wait for whenever madnick is back and have a more clearheaded discussion then
<charlie-tca> all images are working for Xubuntu Precise
<charlie-tca> all images except desktop i386 are oversize
<knome> hey charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Good to see you again, started my sync maybe 20 ago.
<knome> charlie-tca, you might have read about our plan to include "application sets" into xubuntu
<charlie-tca> any help testing Ubuntu/Kubuntu 10.04.4 would be appreciated today. Tests are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/207/builds
<charlie-tca> knome: I don't what application sets are, even
<knome> charlie-tca, okay, so basically, we're offering three choices:
<knome> charlie-tca, xubuntu / xfce only / accessibility
<charlie-tca> Unit193: if you can test our images today, I will work on 10.04.4 for Kubuntu
<charlie-tca> as sessions?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Busy day, but I hope to.
<knome> charlie-tca, if you choose accessibility, you will get all the accessibility applications installed, as well as some tweaks, like bigger terminal font
<knome> charlie-tca, no, as intallation alternatives
<knome> charlie-tca, with the ubiquity plugin the edubuntu team put together
<charlie-tca> I don't know anything about that, either
<knome> charlie-tca, with "xfce only" you naturally get only xfce installed on top of ubuntu
<knome> charlie-tca, well anyway, we might need your help :)
<charlie-tca> will there be a new menu when installing, then? It gives these choices?
<knome> yes
<knome> a simple dialog with these three alternatives
<charlie-tca> and will that be on all images, or desktop only?
<knome> that will be on desktop only, afaik
<charlie-tca> I suppose the first thing would be to figure out how to get orca to work in precise Xubuntu, then
<knome> does that mean that some people might need to use alternative to install xubuntu, because the desktop image is inaccessible in the first place?
<charlie-tca> no, it means if orca doesn't work, you don't have accessiblity working at all
<charlie-tca> Orca is a screen reader, which is required for blind users
<knome> right, but that would be the case even without the application sets?
<charlie-tca> no, because we don't have it working yet
<knome> okay. for precise, i don't know if we can *improve* the accessibility much anyway, but we'd like to group the accessibility features to one set, if possible
<charlie-tca> blind users normally have to use Ubuntu with unity 2d or gnome to get orca to work
<knome> there is some accessibility tools that are installed by default, isn't there?
<charlie-tca> yes, mouse tweaks, giving the ability to use keys in place of mouse, and set up mouse to work easier with sticky keys and different speeds. Also, Onboard keyboard
<knome> yeah, those would be grouped to the accessibility installation group
<knome> along with some theming tweaks, like bigger terminal font, as i said :)
<charlie-tca> Better make that a bigger default font. Your current fonts are way too small for visually impaired users to see
<knome> that's some good feedback too, and yes, will drive for that
<charlie-tca> Also, probably want to look at both high-contrast and high-contrast inverse themes
<knome> yes those too
<ochosi> btw, as far as i know xfce-upstream supports orca in the latest version
<knome> there's no high-contrast gtk3 theme though :(
<ochosi> we won't have that in precise most likely
<knome> yeah, but we are ready to have that in Q
<charlie-tca> upstream plans on 4.10 supporting orca. But without that, there is no point in having an accessibility install
<knome> i have to disagree. bigger fonts and such are an accessibility improvement
<knome> of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step forward
<knome> as i said, i don't think we generally can improve accessibility much in precise, but we can start preparing stuff for when we can
<knome> the other motivation to have these application sets is to have pure xfce on top of ubuntu
<Unit193> That'll be fun to support....
<knome> anyway, if you knew the package names for those accessibility apps you mentioned (mouse tweaks, onboard) from the heart, those would help a lot
<knome> Unit193, what is?
<knome> s/is/will/
<Unit193> Different packagesets.
<knome> how?
<knome> we're already installing everything what will be in those sets
<Unit193> I'm going with Xfce on top Ubuntu is going to be different.
<knome> of course it's going to be different
<knome> but it's going to be exactly like ubuntu minimal + xfce
<knome> we should add a note in the description to only install "xfce only" if one exactly knew what they were doing
<knome> and it's not something you can't fix later
<knome> just install xubuntu-desktop
<knome> altogether, i just don't understand why you haven't raised this up earlier for discussion, if you think it's too hard to support
<Unit193> [11:05:42] < Unit193> That'll be fun to support....
<Unit193> Point out where I said "too hard", please.
<knome> very well, maybe i misjudged the tone
<knome> but i'd be really happy if things like this were brought up by others before
<ochosi> +1
<knome> even if we just decided it's okay to proceed as we thought
<Unit193> Na, just was making a side note, not even bringing it up to talk about.
<knome> well you did
<Unit193> I blame ochosi for that part.
<knome> and i think that was valuable, though it would have been more valuable in a meeting a month or two before
<ochosi> Unit193: :p
 * knome doesn't blame people
<Unit193> I don't think it's valuable, it doesn't (and wouldn't) change things, just something that I'll have to peek into.
<charlie-tca> hm, lag is 684 seconds. May not be having a good day on IRC...
<charlie-tca> last thing I got here was 
<charlie-tca> 09:03:52       knome | of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step 
<charlie-tca>                      | forward                                                                                                               
<charlie-tca> now going to switch to xchat, it is easier to restart the server in it than weechat
<knome> mmh
<Unit193> http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx
<knome> well he's gone :P
<Unit193> I know.
<knome> i don't always know, because i sometimes have joins/parts on ignore
<Unit193> I never do.
<knome> easier like that in eg. #ubuntu-meeting
<Unit193> I don't idle there, and I'm a bit obsessive about my logs.
<Unit193> http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=809 I'd use it if that was fixed.
<knome> ha.
<Unit193> http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx and some from when you switched to xchat
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> knome: I don't know any of the app names by memory. I will have to research them to find them
<charlie-tca> Sometimes, email to the mailing lists work better than irc discussions to get word out
<knome> charlie-tca, sure.
<knome> we just happened to cover that issue minutes before with ochosi 
<charlie-tca> Sorry, not a good day on freenode here, apparently
<knome> yeah, np.
<knome> and don't worry about the package names, we will find out
<charlie-tca> Okay
<knome> so it's onboard and mouse tweaks? or is there something else too
<charlie-tca> I have to poke around a clean install and let you know
<knome> okay, thanks if you can
<charlie-tca> I will try to do that this week
<knome> yeah, that should work, since we need a FFe anyway
<jandrusk> So XChat allows you to do what you want with the IGNORE directive?
<charlie-tca> Well, to be honest, without a screen reader that is working, an accessible install is not usable
<charlie-tca> jandrusk: no idea. Never use IGNORE here
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah i understand that. i just want to take the initial step
<jandrusk> I think Unit193 was stating that earlier.
<Unit193> jandrusk: That was a random one with knome, but I don't know if it does.
<jandrusk> Unit193: Thanks.
<jandrusk> Been using irssi for several months and love it. 
<Unit193> Sure is.
<jandrusk> Love the Perl integration. 
<knome> Unit193, well clearly, those should be possible to fix with perl scripts
<Unit193> knome: Do I look like I know perl? (and it'd have to be light, already having a few small issues with resources.)
<knome> no, i don't know what you look like
<jandrusk> Maybe I'll will look at building a script. 
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Do you care what type I do?
<charlie-tca> I follow my schedule at http://2tu.us/48mf
<charlie-tca> but any tests are welcome!
<Unit193> I am doing at least one alt and one desktop. First desktop can't be split, that was how I did it last time. :P
<charlie-tca> Then do a whole disk install. It at least shows we did a test and it worked or failed.
<charlie-tca> I think we care more about whether or not they work then the type of partitioning used
<Unit193> Manual, but yep, just asking if you wanted something before I picked.
<charlie-tca> Thank you for asking.
<Unit193> Bah, Ubiquity crashed on right click in partition still...
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> I haven't tried that lately
<Unit193> Did it to me last time.
<Unit193> It still works as long as you do not right click.
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, Ubuntu desktop is 20MB more oversized than us, so I figured to let them sort it out first, then we can sort it out, BTW, also, I'm planning on updating gimp tonight to 2.6.12
<micahg> mr_pouit: and thanks for the meta upload
<charlie-tca> It should settle down after feature freeze, when they quit adding so much to Ubuntu
<micahg> well, we're in a tougher spot, they're about to drop webkit-gtk2 which we can't do
<charlie-tca> micahg: might be between beta1 and 2 that we get things straightened out on size again
<micahg> yeah, most likely
<charlie-tca> We have to look at what they added for us that we don't need. Maybe nautilus, evolution, some other crap
<charlie-tca> Then we look at languages
<micahg> hmm, we shouldn't have any of that in our images (if we do, there are bugs in the dependency chains which we can fix now)
<charlie-tca> I know we shouldn't, but that don't mean we haven't
<charlie-tca> Same with languages, did they add a bunch to us again?
<micahg> they shouldn't be adding languages for us, those are in our specific seeds, not the platform ones AFAIK
<micahg> dropping tango should give us another MB or 2
<charlie-tca> but a lot of times, when they add the language packs to Ubuntu, they seem to give them to us also
<charlie-tca> I'm just going by past things that made the images grow
<micahg> ah, ok
<micahg> well, we'll  have see, I think we still 5-6 languages, so we have some leeway, but we can probably get by pruning other stuff
<charlie-tca> yup. Wasn't ready to worry about it yet
<micahg> tonight I just want to get the new gimp and aptitude in
<charlie-tca> Good idea
<knome> micahg, there was some discussion about things we could drop in #shimmer before, so you might want to talk with mr_pouit about that if you need a hand with that :)
<micahg> nah, not worrying about dropping ATM, just pushing everything in before FF :)
<knome> yup, but if there is a need
<knome> we might think dropping some of those anyway for Q :)
<knome> even if languages are kind of a "nice plus", i'm not really comfortable dropping them again and again
<knome> pleia2, ohai
<knome> pleia2, noticed our newest tweets? :)
<pleia2> knome: yeah! :D
<knome> like the style?
<pleia2> yep that's good
<knome> okay, good
<knome> don't want to be too "official"
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-16
<knome> madnick, you here?
<madnick> knome: for a while :)
<knome> madnick, how well do you know the current lightdm greeter?
<madnick> knome: the one that is in the image atm?
<knome> yes
<madnick> Well, I got the source code, and Ive looked at it a lot
<knome> okay, good to know
<knome> we're thinking that we might just try to fix some issues in that for P
<madnick> okay
<madnick> which issues?
<knome> we'd like a bit better theming, maybe dark panel and dialog, and change the computer icon
<madnick> oh okay
<knome> little things like that
<madnick> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/data/greeter.ui
<knome> yeah, we know
<madnick> :)
<knome> i need to take a shower
<knome> bbl
<madnick> :P
<ochosi> hey madnick 
<Unit193> Did you end up with all the tests you needed for yesterday?
<charlie-tca> No
<charlie-tca> I am still running kubuntu lucid tests today
<Unit193> I can't run 64, but I was doing the Xubu ones late.
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I will run them tomorrow, probably. I won't be able to today
<Unit193> It'll be easier to run some today, need a few still?
<charlie-tca> sure. We don't have any done today
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-17
<micahg> woohoo, live images aren't oversized anymore
<micahg> beware of bug 933951
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 933951 in thunderbird (Ubuntu Precise) "Messaging menu extension interacts badly with lightning in precise making thunderbird unusable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/933951
<knome> hmm
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q.pdf
<cody-somerville> Hey.
<knome> hey cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> I noticed the system-config-printer applet had it's autostart removed about 11 hours ago
<cody-somerville> because of the introduction of indicator-printers
<cody-somerville> I suspect Xubuntu doesn't use that indicator stuff (still on natty, bad me) so that might cause problems.
<cody-somerville> just an fyi
<knome> mr_pouit
<knome> cody-somerville, thanks for the information
<mr_pouit> yep, indicator-printers is gtk3 only
<knome> so do we need to take action?
<mr_pouit> put back the autostart with NotShowIn=Unity;GNOME; I guess
<mr_pouit> NotShowIn=KDE;LXDE;Unity;GNOME;
<mr_pouit> so it's ok
<Unit193> knome: Interesting doc.
<knome> Unit193, what's interesting in it?
<mr_pouit> the color scheme used (you don't need to read the text :p)
 * mr_pouit runs
<Unit193> Generally the design with names, and ending on the number 9.
<knome> eh
<Unit193> We'll see if it's interesting and followed later on though.
<knome> the document?
<knome> why wouldn't it?
<Unit193> Things change along the way or just get dropped.
<Unit193> ...And I may be a little bit of a cynic.
<knome> isn't that why we are planning
<knome> and why do you think there is so much on engaging in the document
<Unit193> Oh dear, I think you read me wrong again...
<knome> no, you are right
<knome> Unit193, this is why we need you too.
<Unit193> One point of interest would the the idea of a council. Defining what Xubuntu is has been done for me in my head, but officially is a good idea. I would've guessed parole got a free ride since it is Xfce, but good to know, and knowing me, I'm still waiting for blackbird. :P
<Unit193> Mhm..
<knome> there's a video player that's much better than parole on the elementary os
<knome> and nobody's really working on parole right nwo
<knome> *now
<Unit193> What's the name?
<knome> Unit193, audience. http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02152012-011052pm.php
<Unit193> Haven't seen it, thanks for the link.
<knome> np
<Unit193> (Must have missed it :/ )
<knome> the xubuntu council can only work if we have a (contributor) community broad enough
<knome> i don't want to introduce more bureaucracy if it's just the same guys
 * Unit193 ->
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-18
<pleia2> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products
<pleia2> t-shirt ideas \o/
<knome> yayy
<knome> madnick, what's the status on the lightdm gui? does that make sense if we don't have the new themes?
<knome> -s
<madnick> not so much, since the only 2 things then would be autologin and greeter
<knome> is there an another way to enable autologin then in precise?
<knome> i mean, apart from editing the configuration files manually
<madnick> not sure
<madnick> xfce had something going on
<madnick> i saw on their blog
<madnick> But I have no idea if it covers ldm
<ochosi> madnick: i think it covers lightdm, but we won't have that in precise yet
<knome> okay, so generally we're going to postpone everything for Q and try to get a few enhancements in the current lightdm theme?
<madnick> I think that might be the most realistic approch
<knome> okay, i've edited the blueprints according to that plan
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-19
<ochosi> micahg: hey, i have a list of fixes/commits for gmusicbrowser now (we talked about backporting a few important ones to oneiric a few days ago)
<ochosi> micahg: where would you want me to put them?
<micahg> ochosi: we'll need 1 bug per issue with a test case, with one debdiff for all of them attached to one of the bugs
<b__> anyone on?
<b__> I'm not a dev, but I could use some help... even direction to a channel would be helpful....
<knome> madnick, there is one thing i'd like fixed in plymouth this cycle
<knome> madnick, that's the text not showing up properly, when plymouth hits fsck
<ochosi> micahg: hm, it's three issues (google-image-search,overlay-scrollbar,mpris2-plugin), but the mpris2 has 6 commits or so, do we really need a separate bug for each of them?
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i submitted bugreports as requested for google-image and overlay-scrollbar bugs, i subscribed you to them. please let me know about the mpris2 issue. thanks a bunch!
<Pokemonacer> hello
<Pokemonacer> @chanserve
<meetingology> Pokemonacer: Error: "chanserve" is not a valid command.
 * Pokemonacer Loves Linux
<PokemonAcer> Ok
<PokemonAcer> How About We Have.... A Little Mouse As The Cursor?!
<leo-unglaub> hi,
<leo-unglaub> in the current version of xubuntu the terminal looks a little bit strange
<leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/mlcmhnl6/Auswahl_001.jpeg
<leo-unglaub> is there a current open bug for that?
<leo-unglaub> or should if opne an new ticket?
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: What seems to be the problem in your opinion?
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: there is no problem with the functionallity, it just the default theme with looks a little bit strage. it's just an eye candy bug. i marked the parts of the image
<leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/wpe630yd/Auswahl_001.jpeg
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/xfce4-terminal.png
<astraljava> I see that the background color seems to mess with the borders a little bit, yes.
<astraljava> Well, you should talk to knome or ochosi about that.
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey
<ochosi> well i tried to fix that earlier already in greybird, but it's not really possible
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: okay, thanks !!!
<ochosi> we decided to go for a "flat" terminal style in precise
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: hi :)
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: this is what it'll look like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02192012-073605pm.php
<Unit193> >_<
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: i see
<ochosi> but that'll also work with dark terminal-bg
<ochosi> the scrollbar-bg simply won't match the terminal-bg anymore, but the general window-color
<ochosi> so it won't look as integrated as before (without tabs)
<leo-unglaub> looks good
<ochosi> problem is the tabs, that's an unfixable problem
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: well, i am not a designer, but is it a possibillity to make it like in pidginÃ
<leo-unglaub> ?
<leo-unglaub> the tab problem seems to be fixeed there
<ochosi> no clue what pidgin looks like, i never use that :)
<leo-unglaub> mom, i take a screenshot
<ochosi> feel free to send me a proposal/screenshot
<leo-unglaub> http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/4v8ky51q/Auswahl_002.jpeg
<leo-unglaub> if you use the same style, i would look great
<leo-unglaub> in the right site there is a little gray border before the scroll bar
<leo-unglaub> so the black background never would destroy the scroll bar
<ochosi> well that's just the normal scrollbar
<ochosi> you can easily have that by deactivating the terminal-specific theming
<leo-unglaub> really? where can i do thatÃ
<ochosi> you have to uncomment the line "include apps/terminal.rc" in /usr/share/themes/greybird/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<ochosi> s/uncomment/comment
<ochosi> then you have to restart the terminal to apply the style
<leo-unglaub> hey, thats looks great
<leo-unglaub> and fixes my problem
<leo-unglaub> thanks!!!
<leo-unglaub> but, why is there a special stype for the terminal if the default looks that good?
<ochosi> well the original intention/idea was to have the scrollbar feel more integrated in the black terminal
<ochosi> but it doesn't work/look well with other background
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> but in general that's a question of taste, like with a lot of theming. i personally like about this scrollbar-style that it's not visually "in your way" as scrollbars aren't that important in terminals
<ochosi> and it's very similar to the new resize-grip
<ochosi> (in style)
<leo-unglaub> well, i have not much of an idea about styling...i am a C/C++ dev with spends most of his day in the terminal and for me scroll bars are very important to see outou from above
<leo-unglaub> but with the default style it looks great
<leo-unglaub> thanks you very much !
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: if you're interested to help out with xubuntu a bit, you'd be most welcome. we don't have enough people who code
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: yeah, i am very interested in it. i worked for almost 6 years with gnome but after trying 1 year to get along with unity and the gnome-shell...
<leo-unglaub> i tryed xfce 2 days ago and fall in love with it
<ochosi> cool
<leo-unglaub> finaly i have a desktop again with allows me to work without havong fancy docs..
<leo-unglaub> if i want docks..i buy an apple
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: what can i do? i started last night to fix the thunar share plugin with is not maintained anymore
<ochosi> very nice
<ochosi> well there are a few areas we could do work in, but we'd have to postpone the discussion because i have to go now
<leo-unglaub> well, sounds good
<leo-unglaub> i pinned this channel and stay here
<leo-unglaub> if there is something todo
<leo-unglaub> just write to me
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: Welcome into the gang! :)
<Unit193> ....of weirdos.
<astraljava> Well, I'm not really a Xubuntu dev, but I just recently started contributing.
<astraljava> Unit193: I may be weird, but at least I'm not weird.
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: thanks !
<leo-unglaub> i am realy asking me why i didnt try xubuntu some years ago :)
<leo-unglaub> is there a launchpad group where the tickets are listet?
<leo-unglaub> and how close do you work with the xfce devs together?
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: Not really, the bugs are filed per packages or project. Xubuntu-dev has more privileges on uploading stuff and that sort of things, but everything else is visible to all etc.
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: ok, cool, i'll ping you when i have time
<ochosi> have a nice evening everyone!
<astraljava> leo-unglaub: mr_pouit _is_ an Xfce dev, and some others have close ties to the upstream project as well.
<astraljava> ochosi: Back atcha!
<leo-unglaub> astraljava: okay, i have noted my names
<leo-unglaub> Ã¤h, the names of the devs
<leo-unglaub> i will patch the thunar share plugin and report back
<leo-unglaub> l
<micahg> ochosi: the mpris issue, if it's one test and 6 commits, it's one bug, if there are multiple issues with it, it's one bug per test case, not per commit
<micahg> if there are multiple commits BTW, you might want to add a link to the upstream commits in the bug if they're bundled as one patch in the debdiff
<astraljava> Anyone else been having problems with Chrome lately? Seems it's not releasing memory from closed tabs like previously.
<ochosi> astraljava: actually i've had troubles with chromium constantly eating my cpu
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, sometimes it gets really stuck.
<ochosi> i've switched back to midori
<ochosi> hope the gtk3 issues get fixed soonish, gtk3-version is a lot faster
<astraljava> I'm currently using FF.
<ochosi> yeah, did that for years
<ochosi> might even go back to that at some point
<ochosi> but i'm kinda sympathetic to midori
<astraljava> I need two important features working, at least through extensions; FlashBlock and Adblock+
<astraljava> If a browser can provide those, I'm game. :)
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> well at least adblock is there in midori
<astraljava> I check so many links to youtube in a day, that I have to have flashblock working, cause I can't have them start playing immediately when I click on a link to open in a new tab.
<ochosi> well, you could also use "mute"? :)
<astraljava> A stupid workflow, I know, but it's in my system. :)
<astraljava> No, cause I have music playing all the time.
<ochosi> use pulseaudio to mute only the browser then
<astraljava> But I might have music playing _in_ the browser. :)
<astraljava> ...or from the browser, how do you say it.
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> ok, well i guess then it's flashblock you need
<astraljava> Yeah.
<micahg> what's slow in Firefox?
<ochosi> wait, did i say it was slow?
<micahg> ah, CPU and memory issues :), Firefox has been working towards reducing its memory footprint with each release
 * micahg isn't sure if Chromium has similar explicit goals 
<ochosi> i dunno
<ochosi> i mainly switched to midori because it's such a small project and i think it can use the testing
<ochosi> and feedback
<micahg> ah, ok, well, I've been trying to keep it up to date in Ubuntu
<ochosi> yeah, it's much appreciated
<ochosi> btw, i'll try to put together the last test-case for the soundmenu tomorrow
<ochosi> let me know if there's anything else you need
<ochosi> (apart from the debdiff etc.)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-11
<micahg_mobile> When's the next meeting?
<pleia2> tomorrow at... 2100 or something, let me check
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> UTC
<micahg_mobile> I can't make it most likely :-(
<pleia2> doh :(
<pleia2> I think it's important for you to be there for this one, so maybe knome will reschedule
<Unit193> Unless he can vote absentee.
<micahg_mobile> I can make something before 20:00
<knome> micahg_mobile, mr_pouit can't make it before 21...
<knome> micahg_mobile, is tomorrow or wednesday better for you at the same time?
<micahg_mobile> Knome: Wed probably
<knome> micahg_mobile, "probably" is kind of bad, because if that doesn't work out, it gets harder to reschedule
<Pjotr> Hello, I plan to attend the Xubuntu team meeting tonight. Where can I find the agenda?
<knome> Pjotr, there's no specific agenda
<knome> Pjotr, we're mainly discussing the ISO size bump
<knome> Pjotr, if people have other issues they want to raise, it's ok to simply do that
<Pjotr> knome: OK, thanks....
 * astraljava was going to ask whether the date was set now, but notices Pjotr isn't in the channel anymore anyway, so that's sort of a moot point now.
<knome> Xubuntu team meeting in about 10 minutes!
 * knome goes out to take breath of fresh air
<drc> Here or -classroom?
<knome> here.
<Unit193> drc: Here or -meeting would be normal.
<drc> didn't they used to be in -classroom?  Or is my half-heimers kicking in?
<Unit193> They used to be in meeting, classroom is for things that teach others, generally.
<drc> ok, half-heimers it is.
<pjotr> Hello all
<GridCube> hi :)
<maddernick> hello
<knome> hello everybody
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> i want to go watch some black adder, so let's try to be quick today...
<knome> nah, just kidding. i'll force you to be quick.
<maddernick> "just kidding" ;)
<bluesabre> hey everyone!
<knome> i'm starting the meeting just so we can check more easily who's around and take off faster
<Unit193> And I'll need to head out close to the end as I'm helping an older lady with her computer.
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu team meeting (ISO size etc.)
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 21:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> so who's here
<maddernick> o/
<knome> say "yeeee-a"
<bluesabre> here
<drc> it's yeeee-haa
<drc> finnish-texans, sheesh
<knome> drc, i haven't heard any artist/comedian shout out their audience like cowboys :P
<GridCube> \o
<Unit193> Yeee-haw!
<knome> ah, the left-hand cube has arrived
<pjotr> here
<mrpouit> hallo
<knome> astraljava, micahgmobile, micahg_, ochosi, pleia2
<pjotr> bonsoir, monsieur Le Folgoc
<knome> heya lionel!
<djtf> Professional lurker here.
<knome> if any of you have any *other* agenda items than the iso size, feel free to shout them out now and i'll make sure they get processed after the iso size talk
<pjotr> Libre Office in the iso
<bluesabre> not sure if mousepad made it into the default stack, but mousepad instead of leafpad
<Unit193> I defer one to R+1
<knome> let's wait a bit more, since everybody said they could come...
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> knome, do we need to start compiling a new faq, correct?
<knome> GridCube, it's not a critical task as it is, but definitely doesn't hurt if we do
<GridCube> and the deviantART group, i still need icons and some guidelines help
<knome> yup, i should work on those
<GridCube> those are my only topics
<knome> #topic ISO size for R and beyond
<knome> so... there's been a lot of discussion about the ISO size
<knome> several team members have been wanting a 1GB ISO for R (and ofc beyond)
<knome> does anybody have any objections to this for starters?
<knome> (speak and repeat, if there is anything we should consider)
<pjotr> I have no voting rights, but I would very much like a 1 GB iso
<knome> that's not an objection, but thanks :)
<maddernick> I think it could be even bigger
<knome> maddernick, for what reason?
<drc> I no longer used cd's so I'll abstain, it doesn't matter to me
<maddernick> Nobody uses CDs
<drc> then what's the discussion about?
<knome> maddernick, why is that a reason to have a bigger than 1GB ISO ?
<maddernick> DVD's or USB sticks are usually a lot bigger than 1GB
<GridCube> i dont have any objection, but again we need to determinate exactly who are our targets
<maddernick> Because then all the goodies could be on there
<pjotr> CD's are even becoming hard to find, in the stores in Holland. All DVD's...
 * pleia2 waves
<knome> maddernick, what is it that we need in the ISO that would make it >1GB?
<knome> hey pleia2 :)
<GridCube> i think we cannot target old computers anymore, we need to target new users and make our distro more popular, so we need more space, old computers will have to move on, sadly
<maddernick> For now, perhaps nothing. But in the future there could be many things :)
 * micahgmobile waves
<knome> pleia2, do you want to be the one that reads the strategy document? :)
<knome> micahgmobile, oh hullo!
<knome> maddernick, in that case, shouldn't we reconsider the size at a later time (and not have a, say 2GB image right now just because we can and we *might* need it?)
<GridCube> i dont see why a limit is relevant
<Unit193> CD size is less needed right now, but why do we need a huge size?  Do we really want to add the kitchen sink?
<GridCube> its not like we could grow 3gb over night
<pjotr> The important thing is to let go of the CD size, IMHO....
<maddernick> Ofc, I was merely objecting to setting a R and beyond limit in stone
<knome> GridCube, we've lost PAE support anyway, that's true. and we can help people boot from their USB via CD's even if they don't have a BIOS that can boot to USB directly
<pleia2> knome: what am I reading it for? :)
<GridCube> knome, yes, i agree
<knome> pleia2, dunno. GridCube talked about "who's our target!" :)
<micahgmobile> Gridcube: oh yeah :-P
<knome> Unit193, that's exactly what i'm thinking. if we don't have a reason to go over 1GB, why go?
<knome> and we *need* to set some limit for the ISO anyway
<GridCube> if we reset our target, then there is no discussion
<pjotr> Would Libre Office fit in 1 GB?
<bluesabre> at this point, most people have at least a 1 gb flash drive floating around somewhere
<Unit193> I was honestly thinking 800 should do, but it'd be more what micahgmobile says.
<knome> i think 1GB is realistic at this point
<GridCube> i dont see why a limit is relevant at this point
<knome> pjotr, let's talk about that later
<pleia2> my major concern is that right now by continuing to squeeze it onto a CD we're taking up a lot of developer time, micahg at least is spending all this time fiddling to make it fit, time which I think could be much spent elsewhere
<knome> GridCube, just like it's good to have some deadlines, it's good to have some kind of soft limit
<bluesabre> ^ that
<knome> bluesabre, which one? :P
<micahgmobile> I'd rather keep it well under the limit so we're not fiddling each cycle
<bluesabre> I was writing what you wrote faster than me, knome
<knome> bluesabre, ok. :) i was wondering if you pointed to my or elizabeth's comment...
<GridCube> sure, but a "if it grows too much too fast then we consider it" is a better aproach imho
<pleia2> micahgmobile: +1
<knome> if it looks like R is not going to fit in 1GB, then just bump it up.
<GridCube> sure
<knome> it's not a huge decision once we've decided to go USB anyway
<micahgmobile> So, 800-900 MB sounds good
<Unit193> However, I'd like to try and keep gnome deps out if it can be done. :/
<knome> but i don't want to say "our limit is 2GB" just to be able to throw in all kind of stuff we don't really even need...
<GridCube> we should still try to keep it simple, so its simplier for tester and developers to mantain
<knome> yup, more packages is always more packages
<GridCube> not adding stuff just because there is space
<pleia2> right
<bluesabre> right
<knome> ...and more to document
<knome> yup, and test
<knome> and everything
<GridCube> just not being concerned with space if what is needed takes more
<knome> that's why i think there needs to be a limit
<micahgmobile> The maintenance is mostly fiddling for size
<pleia2> our limit should be 800M but secretly 1G ;)
<Unit193> I'd love to get inxi in, as it's very helpful in support areas, and others as well.
<GridCube> and not removing stuff, like locales, i think we need ALL of the locales
<mrpouit> we should give priority to apps we forced out last release, and language packs
 * micahgmobile hands GridCube a DVD
<pleia2> mrpouit: +1
<bluesabre> +1
<GridCube> +1
<Unit193> Indeed.
<bluesabre> that would probably get us back to 800mb
<knome> i think the exact limit we're targetting should be set after we've talked what we'd like to fit in for R, discussed what we *will* and after mrpouit and micahgmobile have thought how much that'd need
<GridCube> (again, i dont see the need of a limit, but sure)
<micahgmobile> I don't think we should go over 1 GB without a good reason
<knome> and if possible, bluesabre should be integrated in this process to help mentoring him to be a ubuntu developer
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> i don't think we should add any package without a good reason, whichever limit it was we broke (was it 800, 850, ...)
<micahgmobile> We can have a DVD image with the kitchen sink as long as someone will test it
<pjotr> I'll test it... :-)
<knome> as long as we don't start adding stuff just because we can
<GridCube> not enough testers
<GridCube> agreed, not adding stuff just because
 * pleia2 makes note "recruit pjotr to lead testing"
<knome> are we semi-ready to move on to more specific (sub)topics?
<GridCube> i propose a voting on that
<knome> i'd like to go through some stuff quickly before voting
<knome> not necessarily anything that changes the outcome, just want to talk about them
<knome> #subtopic Language support
<knome> what should our plan be?
<pleia2> it made me sad to drop a bunch of packs last cycle
<GridCube> all of locales, all of them
<Unit193> Ummm...
<bluesabre> or at least the ones we were shipping before
<pleia2> how much does "all of them" take up?
<GridCube> i would like that anyone all over the world could put a xubuntu usb and get a sytem in their lang
<knome> GridCube, that will take awfully lot of space, no way it's fitting even in 1GB
<pleia2> bluesabre: that's what I'm thinking
<micahgmobile> I'd like to migrate to Kubuntu style langpacks for the LTS
<knome> bluesabre, "before" referring to 11.10 or sth like 9.10?
<pleia2> I was thinking 11.10
<knome> bluesabre, there's a huge difference... :)
<bluesabre> 6.10 would be a good benchmark
<Unit193> micahgmobile: What is that?
<bluesabre> :D
<pleia2> hehe
<micahgmobile> We can probably do a DVD with all the languages
<knome> micahgmobile, but not in 1GB?
<knome> i mean, let me find a good comment
<micahgmobile> No, it would be closer to 2 GB
<pleia2> yowch
<knome> 23:13  bluesabre: at this point, most people have at least a 1 gb flash drive floating around somewhere
<knome> i think that's a words of a genius
<knome> that's also why i think limit matters
<micahgmobile> I think we should define core languages for the 1 GB image and create a 2 GB+ image for the rest
<knome> that leads to a question
<knome> does it make sense to d/l >2GB image to get your language on the CD, or would you just d/l the 1GB image and install a single langpack in addition?
<pjotr> pjotr hopes Dutch will be deemed a core language... :P
<bluesabre> If the languages are the only difference, there would not have to be much additional testing beyond what we do for the standard iso (since it is also dvd-sized)
<pleia2> how would testing work for the 2G image? it's similar enough that I think the tests would be pretty much identical to the regular image, but release-wise I think we require doing a minimum number of tests on it directly
<knome> bluesabre, well that's not the point. consider english was not on the smaller image. would you d/l >2GB or just install from the 1GB image and add english support?
<bluesabre> sometimes you don't have internet access
<knome> release-wise, we set ourselves how much testing any ISO needs
<bluesabre> especially if you're targeting another "non-core" language
<knome> pjotr, we've usually went the "which is spoken the most" way, and if dutch fits that list... :)
<knome> isn't there any other way to get a langpack downloaded easily and get it installed to a system?
<knome> like, download a bunch of .debs and install then
<knome> *them
<GridCube> yes we could go for the 20 most readed languages
<knome> people should make mini sized ISO's that worked like software repositories
<GridCube> or like that
<knome> one per each language
<knome> just saying...
<bluesabre> I'm not proposing anything, just supported other people's ideas :D
<GridCube> (like the custom slax isos?)
<knome> that could be burned on a CD as well, if you only had one USB stick.
<knome> i believe it's rather easy to create such a cd
<GridCube> http://www.slax.org/en/download.php
<knome> i think it only needs the .debs and some kind of index file
<GridCube> not that thats possible here, but its pretty
<bluesabre> maybe I should make a iso localization gui :D
<GridCube> o: that would be awesome bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, well that or simply have the base ISO and the localization ISO (if your language is not on the base ISO)
<knome> so anyway
<knome> micahgmobile, mrpouit: do you think it's fair to target what we had pre-12.04 language-wise for starters?
<mrpouit> yeah it should be, I think
<knome> ok, good
<knome> let's go with that
<knome> #subtopic Bringing back Gnumeric and GIMP
<knome> i think it makes sense to reintroduce Gnumeric
<knome> (if we're not including LO, but let's talk about that later again)
<pjotr> Can we merge this with Libre Office question?
<pjotr> I have little time left...
<GridCube> no gimp
<knome> mrpouit, micahgmobile: your thoughts about LO?
<knome> i'm +-0 for GIMP.
<micahgmobile> Too big
<pjotr> Every Xubuntu user I know, has installed Libre Office.
<GridCube> yes, but its too big
<pjotr> A couple of hours ago, I've started a poll on the Dutch Ubuntu forum. With this question to the Xubuntu users there: do you install Libre Office in Xubuntu? 
<pjotr> So far, eight responses: 7 yes, 1 no.
<pjotr> URL: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-xubuntugebruikers-heb-je-er-libre-office-bij-geinstalleerd/
<pjotr> You may need to use Google Translate to, well, translate it.... :-)
<knome> i assume there are some dependencies which add to the size
<micahgmobile> LO can go on the larger image if we do one
<knome> well one said "Nee"
<pjotr> knome: lol
<drc> must have been a knight
<bluesabre> gnumeric +1
<bluesabre> gimp +1
<knome> let's make quick polls
<micahgmobile> Knight to bishop 3
<GridCube> lo pulls java
<pjotr> GridCube: not necessarily
<GridCube> that should have been a question
<knome> #vote astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193 
<meetingology> Please vote on: astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> hmm.
<pjotr> It would make Xubuntu out of the box a complete alternative to Ubuntu. A first impression which would even be better than it is now.
<knome> i wonder that meetingology expects us to vote on.
<Unit193> #voters 
<knome> right.
<GridCube> on ourselfs
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<knome> #voters astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193 
<meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 astraljava bluesabre knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2
<knome> #vote Gnumeric
<meetingology> Please vote on: Gnumeric
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<pleia2> +1
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> that should do it.
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<micahgmobile> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahgmobile
<Unit193> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
<knome> that makes it at the worst 4-2
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Gnumeric
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> let's reintroduce gnumeric.
<GridCube> :)
<knome> #vote GIMP
<meetingology> Please vote on: GIMP
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<GridCube> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from GridCube
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<micahgmobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahgmobile
<mrpouit> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mrpouit
<Unit193> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
<knome> that makes it more + than - as well...
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: GIMP
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> let's reintroduce gimp
<GridCube> :D
<pjotr> OK.... maybe you can reconsider LO for Raring +1.... Thanks for listening to me. I have to go now. Bye.
<bluesabre> yay
<Unit193> pjotr: Bye, have a godo one.
<Unit193> Good as well.
<GridCube> bye pjotr  :) have a nice day
<knome> so, does anybody have anything else about the ISO size than voting on the size itself?
<bluesabre> seeya pjotr
<knome> pjotr, thanks!
<GridCube> wallpapers
<micahgmobile> Just my proposal of core languages
<knome> micahgmobile, sure
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> thats something reviewrs tend to focus on
<knome> GridCube, we can fit those in if we go 1GB :)
<GridCube> :D i know
<bluesabre> yeah, wallpapers or a xubuntu-wallpapers package (if there is not one already)
<knome> i don't think we need to vote on that
<GridCube> more themes?
<knome> GridCube, not if they're not good in quality
<knome> GridCube, but can be considered, also faenza-xfce
<GridCube> well, a few more wont hurt i say, i would like that reviewers have something fancy to review
<GridCube> beside our strenght that is stability
<GridCube> you know that that was the main complain i've heard out of them
<knome> GridCube, i think we agree with ochosi (with the artwork lead hat on) that quality matters more than quantity
<GridCube> yes
<knome> micahgmobile, so, uh, did you have a proposal?
<GridCube> i agree
<knome> micahgmobile, or were you referring to something you said before
<bluesabre> the main wallpaper complaint I saw was that we have xubuntu-precise -> xubuntu-quantal
<bluesabre> it's funny seeing them argue the difference between them
<bluesabre> when its a symlink
<knome> heh
<knome> take that discussion to mrpouit 
<knome> and make him mentor you to fix the names
<micahgmobile> What I said before
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> micahgmobile, i'll find that
<knome> 23:25  micahgmobile: I think we should define core languages for the 1 GB image and create a 2 GB+ image for the rest
<knome> that?
<micahgmobile> Yeah
<knome> ok, i think it makes sense to vote on the main ISO size first
<GridCube> :)
<knome> if we decide 1GB, then vote on that
<knome> agree?
<GridCube> agree
<knome> was asking from micahgmobile :P
<knome> micahgmobile, feel free to disagree, and we'll go the other way. :P
<micahgmobile> Ok, as long as we're under 10 core languages I think
<knome> ok
<knome> #vote ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
<meetingology> Please vote on: ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<maddernick> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from maddernick
<micahgmobile> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahgmobile
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<mrpouit> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mrpouit
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<Unit193> +1 (would prefer 800-900, but close enough)
<meetingology> +1 (would prefer 800-900, but close enough) received from Unit193
<knome> Unit193, want to get your vote recorded or more interested in cookies ATM?
<Unit193> knome: Cookies, of course.
<knome> Unit193, you didn't read the instructions! :P
<knome> oh well
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
<meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Unit193> Sure I did. :)
<knome> didn't follow though
<knome> now then
<knome> another vote
<knome> just a sec as i type it
<bluesabre> woot, lets get 3 media players in there now
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> bluesabre, haha, let's get all, since we can't decide anyway
<Unit193> knome: Meh, it's close enough I may as well say yey.
<micahgmobile> Unit193, my intent is to have the 1 GB image on the range you specified
<Unit193> micahgmobile: Wonderful.  But of course up to you.
<GridCube> woo lets remove gmb and put a good media player! wooo
<bluesabre> what have I started?
<knome> #vote <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
<meetingology> Please vote on: <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Unit193> Parole is the music *player*
<knome> GridCube, you still have to have a rationale. :P
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<knome> meh.
<knome> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from knome
<bluesabre> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from bluesabre
<knome> well yeah, that'd be more appropriate.
<knome> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from knome
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<mrpouit> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from mrpouit
<maddernick> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from maddernick
<knome> too bad meetingology can only register integers
<bluesabre> looks like its up to pleia2
<knome> and micahgmobile :)
<pleia2> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
 * Unit193 thinks he should change his. :P
<micahgmobile> +1 if we get testers
<meetingology> +1 if we get testers received from micahgmobile
<knome> Unit193, nah. it's ok. i wanted to vote +0 to not make it hard with all the veto stuff mentioned on the SD.
<knome> but i'd like to make it -0.15
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:5
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> i don't think we have a clear decision on this yet
<knome> micahgmobile, would you like to send an email to the -devel list about this sometime this week?
<micahgmobile> Sure, but towards the end of the week
<knome> sure, np
<knome> that's not something that needs to be done by FF anyway
<knome> i think what we want to do is investigate alternatives
<knome> micahgmobile, mrpouit: do you know from the top of your head how hard it would be to create those "repository" ISO's?
<knome> i'm referring to the fact that if you insert a CD that has an ISO for your_release+1, your system tells a disc with software repositories is available
<knome> and you're able to upgrade/install new packages from that
<knome> that would minimize the download size for anyone that doesn't have their language on the main ISO
<knome> and it hopefully wouldn't be too hard to create the instructions for that
<GridCube> agreed, and if its an usb, you can always place the locales on the usb and pull tehm from there manually?
<knome> or if bluesabre_ comes up with another solution, that'd be fine as well
<bluesabre_> :)
<GridCube> we could automatize that?
<knome> GridCube, probably, but since languages involve many packages, it might be a bit tedious to actually get that *installed*
<GridCube> oh, okay
<GridCube> i don't know how that works, sorry
<bluesabre> Going mobile. 
<knome> GridCube, maybe. or if after install there's a way to add packages for the use of the CD (from windows or linux or whatever), that would work for me as well
<knome> anything works, as long as it isn't rocket science
<GridCube> yes, agreed
<GridCube> i would like that xubuntu simply calls other languages peoples
<knome> via skype?
 * knome hides
<knome> i think we're done
<knome> it's tuesday here
<GridCube> P:
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Feb 11 22:01:41 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-02-11-21.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-02-11-21.00.html
<knome> thanks everybody!
<Unit193> knome: Danke.
<knome> i'll send a summary of the meeting to the mailing list
<knome> and tweet something about it
<GridCube> :D, thank you knome :)
<GridCube> make my icons knome 
<knome> pleia2, we probably want to get a news article out soonish on xubuntu.org
<maddernick> ty
<GridCube> P:
<knome> make my day
<knome> :d
<pleia2> knome: yes!
 * micahgmobile disappears again
<knome> micahgmobile, thanks!
<GridCube> good bye ghost micahgmobile 
<knome> pleia2, want to pad-draft it?
<Unit193> So since we're going bigger, edit/publish as you see fit my article.
<pleia2> knome: about our decisions today, right?
<GridCube> :)
<knome> pleia2, yup, that
<pleia2> knome: I can try in 3 hours or so (now is workies)
<knome> ok, in that case i'll set up something before that
<knome> and consider if i'll be around at 3am or so :P
<bluesabre> You don't need sleep knome 
<bluesabre> Looks like they killed the work network again 
<knome> bluesabre, awwh :)
<knome> hmm
<knome> meeting minutes are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<knome> pleia2, or anybody else interested in helping out: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZEydKsVHnM
<SkippersBoss> avond
<SkippersBoss> sorry misssed the meeting
<knome> no problem
<knome> minutes are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<SkippersBoss> Will have a look later
<knome> sure
<SkippersBoss> ANy doc work needed ??
<knome> summary: R will have 1GB ISO, gnumeric and gimp are coming back
<knome> if you want to look at the pad link i just posted, that would be welcome
<knome> we're drafting an article of the decisions from the meeting
<SkippersBoss> pleia will be pleased
<knome> sure.
<SkippersBoss> ok
<SkippersBoss> Authorization is required to access http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZEydKsVHnM
<SkippersBoss> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
<knome> ah, right
<knome> you're not in the LP group ubuntu-etherpad
<knome> let me just move that around
<pleia2> he can apply, I'll approve
<SkippersBoss> your very kind
<knome> can you? you're not admin...
<pleia2> I sure am
<knome> right
<knome> stupid LP
<pleia2> (via community council)
<SkippersBoss> why stupid
<knome> can only sort a single page
<SkippersBoss> there protocol
<knome> i'm referring to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/+members#active
<knome> sort by status, and you'll only see 1 admin
<knome> ...because there's only one admin... on the first page.
<knome> the iso size change is executed.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-12
<smartboyhw> Grrr am I stupid or hasn't the call for Xubuntu 12.04.2 testing went out?
<smartboyhw> knome, ^
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, ^
<pleia2> no, there wasn't a formal call for testing
<smartboyhw> pleia2, that's weird
<smartboyhw> Normal flavors would have done it by Monday
<pleia2> smartboyhw: it's still Monday! :)
<pleia2> and "Normal flavors"?
<smartboyhw> pleia2, it's Tuesday here already:P
<smartboyhw> pleia2, i.e. Kubuntu and Lubuntu:P
<pleia2> we lack a testing lead at the moment, so it's been a bit difficult
<smartboyhw> pleia2, uh
<pleia2> uh?
<smartboyhw> Probably bluesabre can be one:P
<smartboyhw> He does know a lot of QA
<pleia2> I think he's got enough on his plate :)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, sorry can't understand the idiom:P
<pleia2> we're working to get him to become one of our developers
<smartboyhw> pleia2, good job there
<pleia2> yeah, he's great
<smartboyhw> Sadly elfy quit of being QA Lead this cycle, missed blibering with him on #ubuntuforums
<smartboyhw> lol
<pleia2> yes, life stuff often gets in the way when this isn't your paid job
<smartboyhw> pleia2, :)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, the problem is that if you don't really post out an annoucement then you guys might have problems of not enough testers to test images at release day
<smartboyhw> Don't worry I will help testing
<pleia2> smartboyhw: I know, unfortunately I don't have the time to do it either, would you like to volunteer to help us?
<smartboyhw> pleia2, I can:)
<pleia2> great, thanks
<smartboyhw> pleia2, tell me about the changes in Xubuntu precise since 12.04.1
<smartboyhw> Or is it the ones listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu ?
<pleia2> smartboyhw: if I had time to round up the changes I could write the announcement ;)
<pleia2> I don't know
<smartboyhw> pleia2, LOL
<smartboyhw> OK
<pleia2> most people are sleeping this late, maybe write a mail to the devel list asking what needs to be tested?
<smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
<smartboyhw> pleia2, you write it since I'm not a Xubuntu member or anything
<smartboyhw> :P
<pleia2> you should write it, you're the one doing testing (I don't have time this week)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
<pleia2> smartboyhw: great email, thanks!
<smartboyhw> pleia2, :)
 * pleia2 yawns and rubs her eyes
<smartboyhw> pleia2, er?
<pleia2> ok, updated the etherpad
<pleia2> I owe the list an email about a marketing/writing thing, but that will have to wait :)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, OK
<ochosi> sry for missing the meeting
 * ochosi starts to read the log
<bluesabre> pleia2, what would a qa-lead role include?  I usually have my hands dirty with the things that would need qa as it is :)
<ochosi> i think a -dev role would be better for you (just my opinion), because qa doesn't necessarily have to be a person with coding skills and there aren't so many of you as it is...
 * ochosi is just thinking out loud
<bluesabre> I agree.  I just figure that for any of us that are actively involved in what's changed/changing, its easier to coordinate qa efforts
<bluesabre> we could create a xubuntu_qa twitter and tweet things we want looked at :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well i think what we as technical folks could do is keep a list of stuff that should get tested in a central place
<ochosi> something that is easily editable and accessible
<ochosi> the prospective qa-lead could pick up things from there easily and then coordinate the testing-crowd
<ochosi> (at least that's how i'd organize it)
<knome> bluesabre, we could simply tweet those to @Xubuntu :P
<knome> ochosi, well, we have the ISO tracker
<knome> ochosi, and i can get access to anyone who wants to be maintaining the testcases
<ochosi> actually the whole twitter idea might not be too bad in the end
<ochosi> i mean even on g+ you sometimes get feedback from ppl
<knome> feedback is not test results
<knome> we need test results to be reported in ISO tracker
<ochosi> and it doesn't necessarily have to be very formalized for every test-scenario
<ochosi> yeah, well i think we're talking about two different things anyway ;()
<ochosi> -(
<bluesabre> g+ has become quite handy for getting feedback
<knome> no, not necessarily, but in that case, just go ahead and post to G+
<bluesabre> especially now with the communities
<knome> we can get you access to any accounts you need if you're willing to keep them active
 * smartboyhw yawns
<ochosi> see, qa-talk is boring
<bluesabre> lol
<smartboyhw> No I just came back
<knome> sure it is
<smartboyhw> You guys received my email?
<knome> smartboyhw, don't think there's much changed from .1
<knome> smartboyhw, mostly stuff that ubuntu has brought in
<smartboyhw> knome, OK then. Have you edited the draft for a bit?
<knome> nope
<smartboyhw> knome, Grrrrrr
<bluesabre> mrpouit, updated catfish 0.4.0.x with additional translations, should that be uploaded to the quantal repos?
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, you can be a QA Lead (you have the potential as I see) 
<knome> smartboyhw, please don't push people
<bluesabre> lol
<smartboyhw> knome, sorrry
<smartboyhw> Grrr
<knome> as long as people take responsibility, we don't necessarily need a qa lead
<ochosi> +1
<smartboyhw> +1
<bluesabre> +1
<ochosi> (but a qa lead definitely helps ;))
<bluesabre> and knome makes a good qa lead anyway
<knome> ha
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, =1
<smartboyhw> *+1
<knome> bluesabre, not really, i've been slacking with the testcases :P
<smartboyhw> Why did I type =1?
<bluesabre> knome, you keep telling me to write them
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, hehe. yeah.
<knome> bluesabre, i should look into them today, when wife has gone to work
<bluesabre> if you spam me enough, it gets done :D
<knome> (around 18UTCish)
<smartboyhw> knome, really how about that annoucement?
<knome> talk with pleia2 
<smartboyhw> knome OK. /me waits
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, I am working on the translations of Catfish and I don't understand what does versatile mean
<smartboyhw> The Google Translations doesn't make any sense:P
<ochosi> versatile==it has many "sides" as in: it can fullfil your search-needs in many ways
<bluesabre> what ochosi said
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :}
<GridCube> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile#Etymology
<GridCube> P:
<GridCube> i couldn't figure how to use catfish though
<pjotr> Hello, I just read the logs of yesterday's meeting. At the end, some talk was about adding wallpapers.
<pjotr> There's a nice wallpaper collection named xfce4-artwork in the repo's. Contains only wallpapers, and very nice ones as well. Maybe an idea for adding it to the iso?
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> i support that idea
<ochosi> pjotr: iirc the ones in xfce4-artwork are really really old and the resolutions don't really match today's needs
<ochosi> i worked with sarts on an updated version of those wallpapers
<ochosi> but i think he never pushed them
 * ochosi goes to check
<pjotr> I have a 1920 x 1080 display, and they are fine for that....
<ochosi> right, it was updated it seems
<GridCube> :( i dont understand how catfish is supposed to work
<bluesabre> :(
<GridCube> everything i type goes to a search and stays there for ever doing nothing
<ochosi> pjotr: or actually i think i mixed up xfce4-artwork with the backdrops that used to come with xfdesktop
<bluesabre> GridCube, are you running precise?
<GridCube> im on presice with xfce4.10
<GridCube> maybe that is it
<bluesabre> the experimental/ppa version is broken in precise
<pjotr> ochosi: OK.... :-)  What's your opinion on adding it to the iso?
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> well
<bluesabre> ochosi: 6px does help nicely
<bluesabre> sorry, its a python-bug
<ochosi> pjotr: it's possible, but as artwork-lead i'd rather compile wallpapers myself ;)
<bluesabre> I've reported it, but it will probably never be fixed
<GridCube> no problem i should update
<GridCube> no problem then
<ochosi> pjotr: e.g. mgla-wiosenna really has a too small resolution
<ochosi> same with ohio-sky
<ochosi> or park
<ochosi> i mean most smartphones have a higher resolution 1024x768 nowadays...
<pjotr> ochosi: can I help you by giving you some high resolution pictures that I took of nature (woods, fields, lakes)?
<ochosi> pjotr: sure, but for now i can't guarantee anything, i mean adding wallpapers would have to be discussed and decided at a meeting i guess
<ochosi> as those take a few mb easily, it affects more ppl and i can't decide on my own
<ochosi> but if you want you can start a collection on flickr or something like that
<bluesabre> we should have a wallpaper contest :D
<ochosi> yeah, although having seen how that went for lubuntu i'm inclined to say "no thanks" to that
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> or use the xubuntu deviantart page
<knome> bluesabre, i don't want to have contests because that'll lead people to think we've promised something
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<ochosi> whatever platform works
<knome> i'd rather just contact people if something good comes up
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> knome: thoughts on adding a few wps by default?
<knome> ochosi, generally about wallpapers: i think it's fine to have some now that we have space, but let's see where we are after micahg and mrpouit have done their magic first
<bluesabre> alrighty, that also comes down to a sense of taste too.  (and the ubuntu wallpaper choosers don't always seem to have the best taste)
<knome> hehe
<Unit193> And again, how many people no matter what's there, choose something they have already?
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> I actually quite like the latest xubuntu wallpaper
<bluesabre> and have it default on all my machines
<ochosi> tbh i'd prefer something like a plugin for xfdesktop to pull previews of wallpapers online
<ochosi> from some services
<ochosi> one that'd download selected items automatically to ~/.wallpapers and set them or something
<bluesabre> that would be cool
<bluesabre> that's a nifty feature that kde has had for ages
<ochosi> what services/websites are they using?
<bluesabre> dunno
<bluesabre> but when I was younger, I got some of my best wps from there
<Unit193> http://unit193.ninth.su/dump/Bio_Hazard_blue.jpg is one of mine and http://unit193.ninth.su/dump/bio_hazard.jpg is the other.  Nothing like that'd be in stock. :P  (Note, my screen res is a little higher)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, both are a bit too disturbing for my eyes ;)
 * ochosi likes interfacelift
<ochosi> first thing that would be needed anyway is a patch for xfdesktop to load user-selected directories instead of a static list based on what's in /usr/share/wallpapers
<ochosi> (imo that's more important than shipping more wallpapers by default, cause it's simply annoying...)
<knome> YES.
<knome> bluesabre, can you please create a patch for that?
<ochosi> the revamped xfdesktop has that already
<ochosi> but it won't be a part of xfce4.12
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> I'll look into it
<ochosi> it'll probably be released after the switch to gtk3
<knome> could we cherry-pick it
<ochosi> but you can build it from git
<ochosi> problem is it only does wallpapers right now
<ochosi> no app-menu yet
<ochosi> and no icons on the desktop
<ochosi> but there's an awesome transition-effect when switching wallpapers :)
<knome> i'm pointing to the user-dirs feature
<ochosi> it's a rewrite from scratch
<ochosi> so cherry-picking isn't possible in this sense
<bluesabre> should be a simple patch
<ochosi> but yeah, you can probably get an idea of how it should be done from there
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you touch xfdesktop, we should do it upstream imo
<bluesabre> if we just want it to look inside of ~/Pictures as well
<knome> bluesabre, no!
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> the path should be configurable
<ochosi> i'd say it should have a simple folder-selector like catfish
<ochosi> and always display what's inside that dir
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> plus maybe the ones that got shipped by default
<bluesabre> that makes sense
<knome> is there XDG_PICTURES_DIR or sth
<knome> i mean, the way ~/Pictures is linked
<ochosi> knome: there is, but just keeping that means users have to find that out
<knome> we could tell them about it
<ochosi> easiest way to tell them is with a combobox ;)
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> just have the default list as a combobox entry
<ochosi> this is approx how it should look imo: http://wiki.xfce.org/_media/design/xfdesktop/desktop-prefs.png
<knome> as long as you can set a custom location
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe also change the listview for an iconview without descriptions (who cares about the name of a wallpaper anyway?)
<Unit193> ochosi: ...You know what that looks like, right?  (Not that it's a bad idea, I rather agree. :P )
<ochosi> Unit193: tell me
<bluesabre> ok, remind me this weekend if I don't mention it again before then
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> sure
<Unit193> A la Windows vista+.
<bluesabre> we stole the minimal display dialog from windows 7
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, news: All the Chinese (Traditional) translations has been completed:)
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> thanks smartboyhw!
<ochosi> bluesabre: not entirely ;)
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> we were
<bluesabre> inspired
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure that this is really the same thing: http://www.jegsworks.com/Lessons/win/basics/dialog-personalization-background-wallpaper-vista.gif
<ochosi> i mean yeah, it also uses an iconview without filenames...
<ochosi> but which wallpaper-dialog doesn't
<knome> our
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, true unfortunately
<ochosi> anyway, i think a patch for xfdesktop would be accepted upstream
<ochosi> or at least it has good chances?
<ochosi> -?
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> well as it doesn't have a maintainer and i know that nick doesn
<GridCube> i use other wallpaper solutions anyway
<ochosi> t care about the current thingy too much...
<GridCube> variety its pretty much perfect
<GridCube> !info variety
<ubottu> Package variety does not exist in quantal
<GridCube> whaaat
<ochosi> not that perfect then i guess ;)
<GridCube> https://launchpad.net/variety
<GridCube> i... dont remember ppaing it
<GridCube> but oh well, i might have
<GridCube> even more, variety has a clock included on the desktop that you can customize, it looks pretty, but in my case enabling it stopped the wallpaper rotations
<knome> read: it's buggy
<GridCube> yes, well
<GridCube> but its an example, of things that can be worked upon
<GridCube> you don't need to reinvent the wheel everytime
<ochosi> the point of rewriting xfdesktop was to drop code-duplication between the desktop and the file-manager
<ochosi> that means better maintainability and less bugs
<Unit193> !info variety extras
<ubottu> variety (source: variety): automatic wallpaper changer, downloader and manager.. In component main, is extra. Version 0.4.12-extras12.04.1 (extras), package size 121 kB, installed size 814 kB
<Unit193> Or you could just use wally. :P
<GridCube> o: i knew i didnt ppaed it
<Unit193> Get it from a PPA.
<Unit193> Doesn't mean it isn't buggy. ;)
<GridCube> yeah, wasnt saying that, it is buggy, even the linux kernel is buggy sometimes, you just cant avoid that, but then again it doesnt mean its bad, it just need more work
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-13
<phillw> hi folks, any one available to let me know an up to date list for someone available to hold a ~30 minute session on -classroom to let new people to 13.04 about you?
<pleia2> ^^ for May, someone other than pleia2 (I'll be on my honeymoon)
<phillw> pleia2: I'd already ruled you out :D
<GridCube> if i get a draft about what to say i could try to do it
<pleia2> the team could probably etherpad one for you
<pleia2> phillw: I know you have, I was telling everyone else lest they voluntell me to do it ;)
<phillw> pleia2: I know that feeling :D
<bluesabre_> Now Catfish is going to need some build testing...  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental/revision/38
<bluesabre_> any takers?   ;-)  It works for me, but so do lots of other broken things
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, oh?
<smartboyhw> I can
<bluesabre_> you can define the python version to use with configure --python=python or --python=python3 now too
<bluesabre_> code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, got it
<bluesabre_> I'm heading to bed now, hopefully it works for you, if not, leave me a note here :)
<Unit193> bluesabre_: 0.6.0 compiled fine for me.
<Unit193> Both python2 and 3, and of course python3 took more ram.
<Unit193> bluesabre_: However, is generating the deb/ subfolder expected?  Has a control file in it.
<micahg_mobile> How did 12.04.2 work out?
<bluesabre_> Unit193, yeah, that's expected.  The deb folder is never installed, only used when you do make deb
<Pretender> where is bug tracker ?
<Pretender> I can not find link to bug tracker on site xubuntu.org.
<bluesabre_> Pretender, what would you like to report a bug on?  Bugs are tracked on Launchpad, mostly for individual projects and applications
<ochosi> Pretender: depends on what you want to file a bug against, but generally speaking bugs.launchpad.com
<ochosi> darn, too slow :)
<bluesabre_> lol
<bluesabre_> morning ochosi
<Pretender> thanks. I'm not happy with the version 12.10
<Pretender>  I'm not happy with the version X.org 1.13 in 12.10, because my nvidia driver not support this. 
<bluesabre_> Pretender, which driver are you trying to use, and what gpu do you have?
<Pretender> On xubuntu.org i find text "It works well on older hardware too", but this is not true in xubuntu 12.10
<bluesabre_> It's difficult to support some older graphical drivers, especially when they have historically required the use of proprietary drivers.  If the support is no longer available in nvidia's proprietary code, it's not really possible to support it.
<bluesabre_> Have you tried the nouveau driver?
<Pretender> bluesabre, i have Geforce 4 TI 4200. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-96). This is a known problem
<Pretender> yes, i try nouveau driver, but he work not good. Very slow and many artifacts on screen (panels blink and other)
<bluesabre_> I don't know what additional advice to offer then beyond sticking with the 12.04 LTS since it will continue to receive security updates for the foreseeable future.
<astraljava> Pretender: Might be worth a try to check http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix, before filing bugs. Or at least, you might know what type of bugs you should be filing.
<Pretender> this link to fixed my bug in 12.04 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-173/+bug/948053. But i do not understand where i can find similar bug for version 12.10.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 948053 in NVIDIA Drivers Ubuntu "nvidia-173 and nvidia-96 uninstallable on Precise" [Undecided,New]
<Pretender> ubottu, this bug was fixed, and in 12.04 everything is okey. But version 12.10 have X.org 1.13 and crash video driver, because NVDIA supprot only Xorg 1.12 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-96.43.23-driver.html)
<Pretender> bluesabre, yes I rolled back to 12.04.1. Thanks for advice.
<astraljava> Pretender: It seems that 1.13 underwent a whole bunch of changes, so it is possible that not all drivers have, or will have support for this. It's also possible that for some older chipsets, even the nouveau driver won't receive full support.
<bluesabre_> mrpouit, with my recent changes to the catfish experimental branch, are there any concerns as far as packaging?  (Just trying to solve any problems early) :)
<GridCube> hi Pretender :) as far as i understand it, the best way to get involved on the development of xubuntu is this: 1) stick around and help users to fix their problems, this will give you an idea of how xubuntu works. 2) find a program you like, and has a bug, and fix it, send the patch to the developers and get involved with them to help make the system better. 3) keep doing 1 and 2 till you feel secure ennough, and by then you wont have
<GridCube>  to ask about step 4 :D
<Pretender> GridCube, ok, thanks :)
<GridCube> Pretender, for starters we do highly need iso testers
<smartboyhw> Yea
<Pretender> Where i can read about this topic ? (ISO tester) How i can start ?
<smartboyhw> Pretender, you just missed 85% of my classroom session
<GridCube> smartboyhw, is giving a classroom about it right now on #ubuntu-classroom Pretender 
<GridCube> XD
<smartboyhw> GridCube, paste him the logs please:P
<smartboyhw> XD
<GridCube> Pretender, if you dont mind some private spam i can paste you the logs
<smartboyhw> GridCube, thx
<GridCube> or even better http://pastebin.com/chxEZQGC
<GridCube> :D
<bluesabre> that's awesome
<bluesabre> I'm working on a blog post on daily iso testing (for any *buntu), I'll have to link to those logs
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, I will give you later
<GridCube> there will be official logs later
<Pretender> thanks
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> <JoseeAntonioR> Logs for this session will be available at  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following  the conclusion of the session.
<pleia2> knome: do we need any more edits on this announcement?
<knome> pleia2, just a moment
<knome> reintroduction vs. re-introduction
<pleia2> looks like reintroduction is a word
<pleia2> so that
<knome> that looks good to me
<knome> just fix the # on the IRC channel name
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> (i hate when services "autofix" that)
<pleia2> I'll publish real quick
<knome> sure, thanks
<knome> i can tweet it
<knome> wife just went to work, so i'm going to work on various things
<pleia2> k
<GridCube> knome, you should talk to cjwatson :)
<knome> GridCube, ...about?
<GridCube> new iso size, he was asking earlier
<knome> right, i'll check the backlog
<GridCube> :)
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-goes-1gb-for-raring-gimp-and-gnumeric-are-back/
<knome> done.
<knome> pleia2, ta
<knome> tweeted
<GridCube> :)
<bluesabre> retweeted
<pleia2> put on the G+
 * pleia2 back2work
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> has the raring iso already had the seed updated to include gimp and gnumeric?
 * GridCube wouldnt think so
<Pjotr> Hello, I would like to present an update for the results of the poll that I started two days ago, on the Dutch Ubuntu forum.
<Pjotr> I mentioned this poll in the meeting of Monday night. The poll question was put to Xubuntu users, whether they usually do or do not install Libre Office in Xubuntu.
<Pjotr> The poll results are now, after 48 hours: 90 % (18 votes) YES, and 10 % (2 votes) NO. 
<Pjotr> See: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-xubuntugebruikers-heb-je-er-libre-office-bij-geinstalleerd/
<Pjotr> (you may need Google Translate in order to understand what's written there)
<Pjotr> So a vast majority of the voters always installs Libre Office in their Xubuntu as a matter of course. Which would make adding Libre Office to the iso, seem desirable from the viewpoint of user-friendliness.
<Pjotr> This isn't relevant anymore for Raring, as the decision was made not to include Libre Office in the Xubuntu iso by default. But this may be relevant for the discussion about Raring +1.
<GridCube> Pjotr, it wasn't ruled out persÃ©, so you could bring it up in the next meeting, or send a mail to the dev list
<GridCube> but as with any new inclussion you need to do a application comparison explaining reasons and suchs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
<Pjotr> GridCube: I'll look into that, thanks.... But I was under the impression that the implicit choices for the inclusion of Gnumeric and a 1 GB cap for Raring, rule out the inclusion of Libre Office
<Pjotr> implicit = explicit
<GridCube> Pjotr, maybe, i don't know, i do know that that wasnt explicitly voted, so...
<knome> Pjotr, decisions about the applications to include in the ISO depend on the strategy document
<knome> Pjotr, at the moment, i don't think the document extends to measures that'd it be fine to include LO
<Pjotr> knome: well, to be honest I see no formal objections in the strategy document.... 
<Pjotr> But I think Raring +1 is a good target for this discussion. Then we have more time... :-)
<knome> " Packages that will pull heavy/costly libs (i.e. "half of GNOME"), especially if they will run and/or start frequently "
<pleia2> also "Resource consumption. In its entirety, along with all libraries, how much memory does the application use? Does it use libraries that are already in use?"
<knome> yes, i was about to paste that too
<knome> yes, it doesn't imply that there is *absolutely no way* of getting LO in, but it does pale in comparison for abiword/gnumeric here
<pleia2> the benefit of abiword and gnumeric is they're already using a lot of things we pull in already so they're more integrated into the environment
<pleia2> knome: man, we've got this party line down!
<knome> haha
<pleia2> for the record, I also install LO and I like it a lot as an application :) just Xubuntu project-wise it never really felt like it fit
<knome> yes, i do that too.
<knome> otoh, i install many more applications that would never "fit" in the xubuntu ISO
<Pjotr> There's the competition to think of: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_xfce_whatsnew.php#software
<bluesabre> I always test the latest version, but I do all my documents on google drive at this point (and notes on zim, I love zim)
<knome> what "competition" ?
<knome> if mint wants to use LO, and people use mint instead of xubuntu because of that, that's fine
<knome> whatever fits you best
<pleia2> bluesabre: I'm increasingly going that way too, I actually just realized I didn't install LO on the laptop I'm on now because my current presentations are even in gdocs (export to PDF if needed)
<knome> i personally, and i think we as a team, don't think LO is a very good match to xfce/xubuntu
<Pjotr> Well, perhaps I'll be able to convince you one day. :P
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> Pjotr: can you send your survey results to the -devel list? that way we can find them easily the next time this discussion comes up :)
<knome> the dutch ones
<knome> ;)
<Pjotr> pleia2: OK. 
<Pjotr> knome: is there a reason to expect other countries to have different results for  a similar poll?
<pleia2> I don't think country has much to do with it, but demographics of who you are polling does
<knome> Pjotr, no, i was just referring to the fact that it's in *dutch* language
<pleia2> if you're polling a lot of students, they may be more inclined to install a more comprehensive office suite
<knome> i mean, "dutch *language*" :)
<knome> yup, that's true
<Pjotr> knome: OK. Thank heaven for Google Translate. :-)
<pleia2> if you're polling my uncle, he just plays Mahjongg
<knome> huho, don't talk about google translate. i'm just trying to set up some serious translations for a few projects :P
<bluesabre> makes for a good start on bad translations :D
<bluesabre> Admittedly, I've used that in the past to fill in untranslated strings for menulibre/catfish
<bluesabre> trying to not do that in the future :D
<Pjotr> knome: launchpad packages? I'm an upstream Dutch translator for Xfce, so I might be able to help
<knome> no, not launchpad packages :)
<Unit193> GTranslate is one of the better ones, but no non-human translator is awesome.
 * knome slaps bluesabre 
<bluesabre> don't translate 98% of a project!
<bluesabre> that's just sloppy
<knome> bluesabre, haha! don't let people translate stuff like "toolboxicon1"
<bluesabre> <disclaimer>
 * bluesabre is just thinking out loud and doesn't mean to offend anyone
<Pjotr> bluesabre: I finished the Catfish Dutch translation today.... the old-fashioned way. :-)
<bluesabre> </disclaimer>
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> thanks Pjotr!
<Pjotr> togglebutton1 was a hard one, but it disappeared, I think
<bluesabre> yeah, cleaned up my sloppiness
<bluesabre> then added 3 more strings
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi ^
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> bluesabre, that's the reason people only translate 98% of your strings, you always leave some idiot strings there
<knome> O:)
<bluesabre> lol
<Pjotr> Done those 3 today. Catfish is cool.
<knome> what was the correct url to translate again?
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search/experimental
<knome> ta
<Pjotr> bluesabre: are you Sean davis?
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> I didn't touch the dutch translation, I promise :D
<Pjotr> Thought so... Thanks for Catfish: a fine tool
 * knome kicks LP with its timeouts
<bluesabre> it's originally thanks to kalikiana on #xfce-dev
<bluesabre> I just started maintaining it last year
<knome> "Show debug messages (-vv debugs catfish_lib also)"
<knome> bluesabre, did you intend to change that string?
<bluesabre> Couldn't think of a better string
<knome> k
<knome> and "debugs" is a translatabele word?
<Pjotr> It was doable in Dutch. No worries. 
<knome> -e
<bluesabre> as much as "translatabele"
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> is there no verb equivalent for debug in finnish?
<knome> something like "Show debug messages (-vv shows debugs messages for catfish_lib as well)" sounds accurate?
<knome> no, not really
<bluesabre> where torvalds is from, seriously?
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> we just use finglish
<bluesabre> that sounds fine to me
<knome> ok, fine
<Pjotr> debug = error search. Then it's translatable. :-)
<knome> would dropping "-vv" from that still sound good?
<knome> i'm translating it to "error messages"
<bluesabre> probably not
<knome> ok.
<bluesabre> -v = debug
<bluesabre> -vv = more debug
<knome> ah right
<knome> it's the commandline help.
<knome> sure.
<bluesabre> -vvv = x/zero (don't do it!)
<knome> finnish is done
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> thanks knome!
<bluesabre> a 0.6.0 release this weekend is looking more realistic
<Pjotr> will it land in Raring?
<knome> why doesn't   sed -i "s/thing/$VAR/g' filename    work in bash?
<knome> it just prints $VAR, not the contents of it
<bluesabre> Pjotr: It should make it to raring
<Pjotr> Cool.
<bluesabre> If knome/micahg_/mrpouit want, that could be my first official upload to the repos :)
<knome> bluesabre, i want, please make micahg_ and mr_pouit sponsor it
<Pjotr> By the way, I forgot to ask on Monday, but how about GDebi in the iso? Ideal for installing .debs. Much more lightweight than Software Center.
<knome> it's not a replacement.
<Pjotr> as extra
<knome> then it's just extra load.
<Pjotr> Small package...
<bluesabre> Last time I checked, gdebi was not being maintained very well
<Pjotr> used to be in Ubuntu for a long time, together with Synaptic and Install/Remove Software
<knome> i must kick mvo for actually maintaining synaptic longer than he told he'd do
<pleia2> I'd be more open to a proposal to include aptitude or synaptic
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> synaptic just had a gtk3 release a few weeks agi
<pleia2> aptitude is awesome for resolving apt getting all broken
<bluesabre> cracked me up
<Pjotr> GDebi eats very little system resources. Nifty tool for debs like Google Chrome
<knome> yes... synaptic probably should be in at some point O:)
<pleia2> not having it when apt wedges is :(
<pleia2> (and once you have aptitude, synaptic isn't much more)
<GridCube> i never understood aptitude
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> i went from synaptic to apt-get 
<bluesabre> ... to gone
<pleia2> my fiance uses it religiously with the ncurses interface, I've only ever used it to unwedge apt or if I was looking for creative dependency resolution
<pleia2> doh
<genii-around> I'm stuck in my apt-get ways :-(
<bluesabre> I think I just use apt-get unless I'm browsing the software-center for a game
<pleia2> I just use apt-get
<knome> apt-get is good
<Pjotr> Gdebi consists out of two packages: Gdebi and Gdebi-core. Installer size of those two combined: 0.2 MB. Installed on disk: 1.4 MB. Not much...
<knome> yes, it's light... but it's still extra.
<bluesabre> 1-app, 1-purpose is usually a good way to go (or is it the other way around)?
<bluesabre> or did I just make that up?
<bluesabre> too lazy to google
<Pjotr> bluesabre: you only have one knife in your house for all purposes?  :-)
<bluesabre> I'm an american, the bread knife handles most of the things I need to cut
<pleia2> it's general unix philosophy :)
<bluesabre> or is that kentuckian?
<bluesabre> I'll stop now, I'm going to offend everyone today
<bluesabre> btw, terminal: cal 9 1752
<pleia2> that's when we got our calendar sorted, now we have leap years :)
<bluesabre> yup, pretty awesome
<bluesabre> doing linux cert training
<Pjotr> Have to go now. Bye all.  :-)
<bluesabre> Have fun!
<epifanio> hi All
<epifanio> i'd like to try  ubuntu on my laptop (without dvd player) .. but for unfortunate reason (it is a mac with efi boot) the standard iso doesn't boot
<epifanio> after some attemt .. i found a solution into the alternate iso
<epifanio> i made a bootable usb using the alternate iso, and it boot just fine on my mac 
<epifanio> .. the problem is that i need to "try" the distro as a live disk
<epifanio> but the alternate iso doesn't provide this option
<epifanio> .. i was thinking to rebuild the iso using chroot and adding in the new build the needed deb's to add the "live functionalities"
<epifanio> can you please help me to understand which packages do i need in order to add the "live option" ?
<GridCube> epifanio, please go to #xubuntu this is the -devel channel :)
<knome> i suppose technically the question could belong here too, but since the answer is "use the desktop iso and file a bug if it doesn't work", i agree with GridCube..
<knome> i need my laptop here
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-14
<micahg> knome: bluesabre: what do we need sponsored?
<micahg> is anyone testing 12.04.2?
 * micahg supposes he could tweak the langpacks again
<pleia2> smartboyhw sent a mail to the list asking what to test specifically
<pleia2> so hopefully he is :)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, Sorry Xubuntu is my 3rd priority:P (Ubuntu Studio and Kubuntu go first)
<pleia2> micahg: are there any changes we should be testing specifically or keeping an eye out for?
<micahg> I guess no one was watching ISO sizes while I was away
<micahg> well, the amd64 alternate has a lot of room, the live amd64 is 3MB oversized
<micahg> well, I think we ended up with the backport quantal kernel, so make sure that works..
<smartboyhw> Oh?
<smartboyhw> I remembered since Kubuntu did not change their seeds they need to stick to the old kernel and got an LOL from me
<smartboyhw> micahg, you are wrong
<micahg> ah, no, we have the old kernel as well
<micahg> smartboyhw: it was there before I left :O
<micahg> :P
<smartboyhw> micahg, really?
<micahg> yeah
<smartboyhw> No flavours are changing their seeds:P
<micahg> I'm glad that got sorted :)
<bluesabre> micahg, I'll be doing a new catfish release sometime (probably this weekend) and it will need to be uploaded to the raring repos.  Not sure how the whole sponsorship thing works tbh
<micahg> bluesabre: andthing Ubuntu specific about it?
 * micahg wonders if we can get Cody to upload to Debian experimental
 * smartboyhw agrees
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, it's a really great app. I tested it 2 days ago and it's awesome to have such simplicity
 * smartboyhw now starts to work on alternate ISOs for Xubuntu 12.04.2
<smartboyhw> testing!
<smartboyhw> The alternates work! YAY!
<pleia2> thanks smartboyhw :)
<smartboyhw> pleia2, BTW are you going to get the testing annoucement out?:P
<pleia2> nope
<smartboyhw> pleia2, LOL
<smartboyhw> My time is wasted:P
<pleia2> hopefully we can do better with testing as 13.04 stuff gets more ready, but it's just been tough this cycle
<pleia2> not at all!
<pleia2> they still need to be tested, there just isn't time for a formal announcement
<smartboyhw> Edubuntu ISOs are ALREADY marked read Grrrr
<pleia2> so thank you for doing them even though we didn't announce anything
<smartboyhw> anyone doing Xubuntu 12.04.2 testing?
<smartboyhw> Hmm desktop amd64 completed, alternate amd64 missing the manual partitioning
 * smartboyhw means for 12.04.2
<smartboyhw> Is anybody doing the 12.04.2 tests? 
<smartboyhw> micahg, ?
<Pretender> i try test 12.04.2
<smartboyhw> Pretender, good
<Pretender> i find bug but what doing this
<smartboyhw> Pretender, what do you mean?
<smartboyhw> You found a bug and you report it:P
<knome> Pretender, if you wish to help, you should report the test results to the iso tracker at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<smartboyhw> GridCube, help test~!!!!
<smartboyhw> GridCube, please help to test Xubuntu Desktop i386
<GridCube> o:
<smartboyhw> I am doing the alternates
<GridCube> i cant zsync :(
<smartboyhw> GridCube, oh ****
<GridCube> let me try anyway, but it might take hours for me to fetch the images, i can top 30kbs
<smartboyhw> GridCube, oh. 
<Pretender> smartboyhw, i can not install video driver for virtualbox http://screencloud.net/v/DZcu
<smartboyhw> Pretender, hmm that's VirtualBox's problem. You can still report it though
<Pretender> smartboyhw, okey
<knome> smartboyhw, please don't ping everybody randomly.
<GridCube> thats unity... and thats jockey-gtk... im not understanding XD
<smartboyhw> Pretender, yeah why are you talking about Ubuntu desktop testing in a Xubuntu development channel? XD
<smartboyhw> Pretender, go to #ubuntu-quality please:P
<smartboyhw> Sorry knome 
<GridCube> smartboyhw, paste me a zsynck string please
<smartboyhw> GridCube, wait
<smartboyhw> GridCube, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/current/precise-desktop-i386.iso.zsync
<Pretender> smartboyhw, okey ) i am use you instruction http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-classroom.html and get ISO in this link http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/daily-live/current/
<smartboyhw> Pretender, I said: Please go to #ubuntu-quality for this:P
<GridCube> :( ugh no, i cant get zsync to work smartboyhw my proxy is refusing to coÃ¶perate
<smartboyhw> GridCube, OK fine
<GridCube> sorry
<smartboyhw> GridCube, no worries
<smartboyhw> I can still do it
<GridCube> :/ its sad that you are our only iso tester apparently
<Pretender> smartboyhw, I try start testing now it http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/current/precise-desktop-i386.iso
<GridCube> please bother me to download the isos later
<smartboyhw> GridCube, no worries
<smartboyhw> Pretender, thx!!!!!
 * smartboyhw is :D now
<GridCube> :D
<Pretender> maybe exists video tutorial how i can post result to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ ?
<smartboyhw> Pretender, um......... did you read my logs for yesterday?
<knome> Pretender, if you go to #ubuntu-quality, people will be able to help you
<knome> (here as well, but better chances there)
<smartboyhw> knome, +2
<GridCube> knome's level just rised, knome is now level 31, knome wants to evolve... [Y/N]
<smartboyhw> GridCube, WT?
<Pretender> smartboyhw, yea i read you log but i have question.... now i try.....
<bluesabre> knome evolved into Wordpresslator!
<smartboyhw> bluesabre, !!?!?!?!?!?!?
<smartboyhw> LOL
<knome> bluesabre, ahhahah
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> smartboyhw, :D i got 3 iso testers
<GridCube> they are going to test both i386 images
<Pretender> GridCube, and I :)
<smartboyhw> GridCube, thx
<smartboyhw> GridCube, tell them to do alternate i386 manual partition
<GridCube> smartboyhw, we are at #gnudeb
<smartboyhw> GridCube, thank you I am banned
<GridCube> XD what, no, thats just a silly joke
<smartboyhw> XD
<smartboyhw> GridCube, you must use LP accounts:P
<GridCube> P: but i don't think any of them have any
<ochosi> knome: have you seen bug #1125182 ?
<ubottu> bug 1125182 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "CPU hog due to wallpaper lists (large SVG files)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1125182
<Pretender> smartboyhw, i passed test. And reporting to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ . you can check my results ?
<smartboyhw> Pretender, checking
<smartboyhw> Pretender, can you also do the others?
<Pretender> smartboyhw, i try
<smartboyhw> Pretender, OK. 
<ochosi> knome: two things about thunar's sidebar settings in R, what do you think about adding "recent:///" to the sidebar by default (users can easily remove it from there anyway), and i'd think it'd be better if the default size of icons was set to "very small" (=16px), with the category-headers the whole sidebar seems quite full and vertically expands quite a bit with larger icons)
<GridCube> recent:/// does appear when you look for a file to upload or download on a popup windows when using a browser, it always bugged me that that was inconsistent with the standard thunar and i would like it to be there (/me opinions)
<ochosi> yeah, that's one reason for it
<ochosi> it's also not very easily discoverable in thunar by default
<ochosi> unless it's already in the sidebar
<GridCube> exactly, i never knew i could add i there
<GridCube> it would be really helpful. mostly if you download stuff and cant rememeber where you put it XD
<ochosi> yeah, although not everything seems to appear there
<ochosi> not sure downloaded stuff goes there (although that might also depend on your browser)
<GridCube> well, its prescence should bring bug reports if it doesnt contributing to its further and better development
<ochosi> yup, prolly
<ochosi> although zeitgeist seems to take over the department of file-history recently
<smartboyhw> knome: We're missing two testcases for live and install (entire disk) on the 12.04.2 Desktop i386 ISOs
<smartboyhw> GridCube: ^
<GridCube> (again /me thinks the entire disk test was done, just not reported)
<smartboyhw> Just report it then
<GridCube> :) ok
<GridCube> done, dont know about live session but that one should be pretty straigth foward
<smartboyhw> GridCube if you can do it please do
<GridCube> i cant get the isos here :( 
<smartboyhw> GridCube tell your friends to do it in that channel
<bluesabre_> all of GridCube's friends are on this channel
<bluesabre_> :)
<GridCube> P: aint so
<GridCube> :D but thats nice to know anyway
<bluesabre_> lol
<smartboyhw> lol
<smartboyhw> Can someone please do 12.04.2 desktop i386 live test?
<GridCube> XD im asking im askin
<smartboyhw> Good
<smartboyhw> Probably we can release image without this test
<GridCube> gimme a few minutes, i have to teach him how to boot to the livecd on vmware
<smartboyhw> GridCube ol
<smartboyhw> *ol
<smartboyhw> *ok
<GridCube> all tests done
<GridCube> :)
<smartboyhw> GridCube: Is the test done?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> and reported
<smartboyhw> knome: Please release
<smartboyhw> pleia2: You got announcement for 12.04.2 on?
<smartboyhw> Guys: cjwatson is going to mark Xubuntu 12.04.2 results ready since test results are great (even without knome's signoff)
<len-1304> bluesabre_1,  I don't know if you are aware, but there is a bug #1093015 for catfish that should be removed when you release the new one.
<ubottu> bug 1093015 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Error: The required module GError is missing." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093015
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-15
<knome> hmm.
<knome> pleia2, when you get back from vegas, can we schedule a sprint for the docs and website stuff?
 * pleia2 killself
<pleia2> I am coming back from vegas friday night, flying to LA on thursday night
<pleia2> and giving talks on tuesday and friday of next week
<knome> pleia2, things i think we should do in the near future are: see what we need to rewrite for the SRU documentation, update the info for contributing to documentation on our website and create a page for marketing products on www 
<knome> meh. do you think you'd have any space you are willing to spare?
<pleia2> s/friday/monday
<knome> with willing, i mean, really willing to
<pleia2> I don't even know what day it is :)
<pleia2> ok, let me think
<knome> because if not, i'll just drown in my own sweat doing that ;))
<pleia2> so global jam is March 1-3
<pleia2> my fiance will also be out of town that weekend
<knome> aha
<pleia2> I'll probably be going to my loco's event for that on the 2nd, if they can pull something together
 * knome looks at the release schedule
<pleia2> and have a 3 hour class on the 3rd
<pleia2> but otherwise I'm ok
<pleia2> can probably do sprint later on the 3rd
<knome> oh we have until april for the strings
<knome> that might work
<knome> let me check our calendar quickly
<pleia2> I should be home around 1PM my time on the 3rd, that's...
<pleia2> 2100 utc
<knome> ok, anything on 1-3 is ~bad, but i'll do it
<knome> that sounds pretty much perfect
<pleia2> ok cool
<knome> wife has probably just gone to bed
<knome> and it's not too late for me either
<pleia2> so sunday night at 2100 on march 3rd
<knome> that's it!
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> i'll send a mail to the ML later to tell others to join us as well
<pleia2> perfect
<pleia2> and SRU is probably lowest priority
<knome> probably yes
<knome> i might even create a page on the wiki for organizing
<pleia2> do we want to poke at 13.04 docs too?
<pleia2> shouldn't take much to clean them up, and we'll have to add gimp and gnumeric back :)
<knome> umm, we probably will get some idea what we want to extend when we go through things we should rewrite for the SRU anyway, so yeah
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i wasn't thinking we'd actually *rewrite* anything for the SRU stuff in the sprint, just find out what needs changing and then tell others to get working
<knome> (and a few weeks later, do it ourself)
<pleia2> aside from general "omg wedding next month" stuff, I'm not speaking anywhere or traveling in march, so I'll be in much better shape then
<knome> i would like to think that last point is highly optional though!
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> we have FF coming march 7
<knome> i should talk to dev people about making sure they make that
<pleia2> good thing I'm not a developer :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> beta 1 is march 14 though
<knome> we need to get testing in shape before that
<pleia2> yeah, I'll need to get my lab together by then
<knome> but no worries, i'm working on it with bluesabre_1 
<pleia2> for testing all the things
<knome> and _2 too, if he shows up
<knome> even _3, if cloning works perfectly
<pleia2> cloning \o/
<Unit193> Keeping the orig for more clones?
<knome> we should also try to cooperate with the ubuntu docs folks with actually being able to have translations this time around.
<knome> otherwise we have no hurry meeting the docstringfreeze.
<knome> hooray, my host has fixed the server, my domain is up again
<knome> (thank them for breaking it though, otherwise i wouldn't have been this foss-productive)
<knome> where would a page about a sprint belong in the xubuntu wiki structure?
<knome> under meetings?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> not under archive though
<pleia2> ah, looks like last time we put them under what we were sprinting on
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> but this is general sprint
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> Meetings/Sprints ?
<knome> or Sprints/
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> hmm
<pleia2> actually Sprints/
<knome> ok
<knome> the wiki is slooooooow
<knome> can't they really fix the performance issues? really?
<pleia2> they could switch to mediawiki
<knome> i wouldn't even care if they moved to mediawiki and broke all of our pages if that made the wiki speed feasible
<pleia2> moinmoin is kind of crap at scale
<knome> "but we want to fix moinmoin, we've always been able to do that before"
<pleia2> knome has been in my head all week, we don't even need to chat anymore
<knome> that's the answer i'm getting..
<knome> woot
<knome> oh head
<knome> huhu
<pleia2> we keep typing the same things!
<knome> i though it was another word, 3 letters and ends with d as well
<knome> and rhymes...
<pleia2> tsk
<knome> heh, yeah
<pleia2> ok, I had a list of other xubuntu things I wanted to get finished this week
<knome> did you?
<pleia2> I need to run out to the store after work, but then I'll try very hard to get a mail out about the potential articles for print
<knome> woo!
<knome> i'm probably sleeping by then, but if you think you need reviewing, you can post it to the pad and i'll check it when i'm around
<pleia2> ok, thanks, I'll see where I end up with it :)
<knome> feel free to just send too, if you don't think you need reviews 
<knome> pleia2, looks good? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Sprints/2013-03-03-globaljam
<knome> not that i had came up with more to do as well...
<pleia2> knome: sounds good
<knome> good good
<knome> sent email
<knome> bah, writing takes painfully long
<knome> i wanted to work on some blog articles today, but neck is already hurting a bit too much :(
<knome> (and i need to get up in less than 7 hours :P)
<Unit193> Good night, if that's where you're goin'.
<knome> not yet
<knome> i'm pushing it
<knome> felt really good to crack the back.
<smartboyhw> pleia2, PING
<knome> smartboyhw, what's the matter?
<smartboyhw> knome, just wondering one thing: Don't you guys have release annoucements?
<knome> smartboyhw, we didn't do one for .2 since there wasn't much to announce 
<smartboyhw> lol
<knome> smartboyhw, if you had read the #ubuntu-release backlog, you would have known that
<smartboyhw> knome, OK
<Unit193> Also, you were told that here too.
<knome> smartboyhw, i've told you this before, but i really don't like running like a headless chicken and pinging people without checking the facts first
<knome> smartboyhw, it looks like you don't trust that 1) the release team is doing their job  2) the judgement of the xubuntu team to make decisions about release announcements and such themself
<micahg> xubuntu said it wasn't participating in the alphas at the beginning of the cycle, so no need to announce anything until we certify an image
<knome> micahg, the discussion was re: 12.04.2 announcement
<micahg> oh, hrm
<micahg> well, all the stuff that changed was core stuff, so it's as knome said
<knome> micahg, oh btw, i found one work item that's [x-dev] (micahg), is that intentional or not?
<micahg> knome: no, feel free to "fix" it
<knome> oki
<knome> i'll see if i find it again
<knome> eugh, i hate alt+scroll on titlebar changing the opacity
<micahg> knome: did you decide on the language list?
<knome> for R?
<micahg> yeah, I can update the seeds late
<micahg> *later
<knome> hmm. would march 3 be fine for that?
<micahg> sure
<knome> we're planning a sprint for that day, and it might make sense to discuss it then
<micahg> ok
<knome> and it's a low-hanging fruit for somebody to see what the most spoken languages are or so
<micahg> it's not just that, it's the languages that we want to feature
<knome> sure :)
<knome> i think that's a good starting point though
<micahg> I can do this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers , but I don't think that's the answer
<knome> no, probably not as is
<Unit193> popcon?
<micahg> no connection between xfce and languages AFAIK
<micahg> if we do the split, we'd gain that metric as well
<knome> i don't think that's good as it is either, but might be something else to look at for sure
<knome> i think the problem is the asian languages
<knome> i don't think many of us know much about them or how much sense it would make to include those
<knome> anyway, i need to get up in less than 5 hours... so heading for bed
<knome> thanks for taking care for the languages
<knome> have a nice day/evening and see you later
<micahg> ok, I'll just add back gimp/gnumeric and the current languages across the board
<micahg> ok, tomorrow morning we'll have gimp, gnumeric, and de fr bn hi ja on the images
<pleia2> micahg: hooray!
<pleia2> knome: I just realized the date on that last email from Sonny, did a quick nudge email to confirm we're all good before I mail the list
<ochosi> knome: yeah, we could consider to change alt-scroll for something you hit less by accident, i agree
<hrw> hello
<hrw> can someone told me how to edit next/prev tab in xfce-terminal? it is set to ctrl-pgup/down but my laptop lacks them ;D
<hrw> I have General, Appearance, Colors, Compatibility, Advanced in terminal preferences
<pjotr> Hello, I have a feature request for Xubuntu. 
<pjotr> Now and then on the Dutch Ubuntu forum, we see people having problems because they inadvertently checked the "Save session for future logins" option in the Log Out window.
<pjotr> Can this option be removed from that window? It seems to be more often problematic than useful.
<ochosi> well, first you need to ask how many people are _not_ complaining because they use this function as intended...
<ochosi> (i guess removing a feature like this would cause some whining)
<maddernick> isnt the config reset thing in the FAQ?
<ochosi> also i'm not sure whether we should start removing checkboxes because people don't notice that they're clicking them :}
<astraljava> "Are you sure you want to..." pop-ups FTW!
<GridCube> i second ochosi 
<GridCube> and check box to "not show this popup again" 
<astraljava> And before anyone flips out, no, not really.
<GridCube> and a popup asking you if you are sure you want to not show popups anymore
<astraljava> maddernick: If it isn't, I suppose that'd be a handy way to inform users about it.
<pjotr> A popup might be a useful compromise in this matter.... 
<pjotr> most people don't understand "session" in the first place
<astraljava> I really don't think not-understanding is a strong argument for clicking on unknown things. But yeah, I'm with Simon here; find out how big a portion of users suffer from this, and how many actually use it the correct way.
<pjotr> astraljava: how to organize that? Shall I post a poll on the Dutch forum?
<pjotr> Apart from the feature request: can one hack some config file to make it disappear?
<astraljava> GNOME got a lot of excrement in a cooling device due to "dumbing down" their UIs. I'd have to say they deserved most of it.
<astraljava> pjotr: Config option is a much better way. Is that only happening on the dutch forum? Is this perhaps due to the way the translation is worded? Or does it also occur with users having English UI?
<ochosi> pjotr: the problem with stuff like this that users for whom it works fine don't really get in touch before you break things for them
<maddernick> http://xkcd.com/1172/
<ochosi> so it's a lot harder to get those ppl who use a function to say they do, because probably they're not even on your forum
<ochosi> or even clicking a thread entitled "problems with saving session" because they don't have that problem
<pjotr> There's something in that, yes....
<ochosi> having an faq is more valuable
<ochosi> maybe translating it to dutch would be more of a gain than dropping that option
<pjotr> Anyway, I have to go now. If someone knows how to hack a config file to make it disappear, please share it. I'll read the logs tomorrow.... TIA.
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure this has to be changed in the xfsm-logout code, not a config file
<astraljava> Yes, unless it's in any config options already. They don't just magically help by themselves. :)
<ochosi> (at least not that i'm aware of it)
<maddernick> acctually
<maddernick> Right click "Action Buttons" (that menu), click on "Log out", and you can choose not to show that dialog
<maddernick> There is also "Log out..." and "Log out" where I suspect dont give you any options even with that confirm thing
<bluesabre_1> len-1304: Yup, bug 1093015 should be fixed and all is right in the world.  :-)
<ubottu> bug 1093015 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Error: The required module GError is missing." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093015
<len-1304> bluesabre_1, Great!, I will add it to UbutuStudio seeds
<bluesabre_1> oh, I haven't fixed in the what is currently in raring, but rather, what I hope to release sometime this weekend (0.6.0)
<len-1304>   I'll wait
<len-1304> What I have seen has worked really well though.
<bluesabre> thanks!
<bluesabre> knome: I'll help as much as possible
<bluesabre> and try to get everything released before FF
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-16
<Unit193> So NXTGeek1944, what part would you be most interested in?
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Sprints/2013-03-03-globaljam are some idea starters, but that's more for the upcoming jam. ;)
<NXTGeek1944> I'm not sure... still reading the link...
<GridCube> the best way to help, as today, is to do iso testings
<GridCube> we desperately need more people to do those
<NXTGeek1944> I was more thinking along the lines of building a coding resume while helping out the xubuntu community
<NXTGeek1944> Preferable CLI stuff, as I am not a code ninja (yet)
<Unit193> (May have to wait a bit for the devs to be around, night somewhere or may be busy at work and such)
<GridCube> NXTGeek1944, on usual basis the recommendation is to find a program in the xubuntu default installation that you like, go to its launchpad page and look at the bugs reported to them and try to fix them, propose patches and so on
<NXTGeek1944> GridCube: launchpad page? Where would I find that? This is my first attempt at anything bigger than GitHubbing with my friends...
<GridCube> https://launchpad.net/
 * NXTGeek1944 facepalms
<GridCube> NXTGeek1944, launchpad its the core of ubuntu
<GridCube> everything happens through it
<NXTGeek1944> GridCube: got it. starting to browse around...
<GridCube> NXTGeek1944, see, for example this is the xubuntu-desktop page https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop
<GridCube> lol that page needs to be updated hard XD
<NXTGeek1944> I am confused; how would I find a bug and the source from that page?
<Unit193> Lets say you liked xfce4-terminal, you may visit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal and see what you may be able to fix.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-10
<knome> Mapley, hold your... ponies
<knome> bbl ->
<Unit193> The ISOs are getting awefully large...
<Noskcaj> Unit193, current size?
<Unit193> ~900MB.
<Noskcaj> that's shot up quick
<Noskcaj> I wonder what could be used to reduce it
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/K6vzagtj8MuyXd3TFyUU/
<Noskcaj> nothing shows up for the paste
<Unit193> Weirdly nothing does unless you hit raw: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/dFvG9B7pMueL843yqKWX/
<Unit193> gnome-settings-*, gnome-session*, gnome-control*, and gnome-desktop* should be able to, if we can change what's pulling them. :/
<Unit193> Biggest part is, we have 3 python versions, right?
<Unit193> Yep.
<Noskcaj> i think so
<Noskcaj> What do we have to do to drop 3.3 or 3.4 for the final iso?
<Noskcaj> also a lot of new cups stuff seems to be in
<Unit193> Don't know offhand.
<Unit193> Nice part of do-release-upgrade, you get the full list of things being installed (a lot of which gets purged. :P )
<Noskcaj> gdisk seems to be a new recommend of udisks2
<Unit193> Recommends are killers. :/
<Noskcaj> I wonder how much smaller our iso would be with --no-recommends
<Unit193> On the bright side, we're about to bump them up with menulibre, mugshot, and xubuntu-community-wallpapers! :P
<Noskcaj> :)
<micahg> well, we should only end up with 2 versions of python by fonal
<micahg> fina
<micahg> final
<Unit193> Nice.
<Unit193> indicator-sound now has an alt dep on pavucontrol, so that shouldn't pull in one of the control centers...
<elfy> knome: ok - I'll look later 
<elfy> knome: looked now - mucked about with it a bit
<elfy> zequence: many of our testcases are - open it, start a new <whatever>, save it, close it, does saved <whatever> open, does help work
<elfy> really basic stuff
<elfy> if you want someone to start running through them - I can find some time for it
<elfy> once the basic test is written it's not as bad to flesh them out - where it's required, the worst bit is actually getting them on the tracker - wasn't a great deal of fun last cycle, but it was worth it in the end
<zequence> elfy: Simple is best :). I think cub would be a good candidate to work on testing, if he can find some time for it
<zequence> It has happened that we released, and there have been some pretty serious, yet fixable bugs
<elfy> zequence: well I can start working on writing them today, I'll just work from the testcase bugs for your stuff
<zequence> That's mainly what I would like to prevent with testing
<zequence> elfy: We only need testcased for our multimedia applications, though
<elfy> yep - ok 
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<elfy> hi slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> hi elfy. Did you have a good weekeend?
<elfy> pretty good thanks :)
<slickymaster-job> he had a pretty heavy storm here, yesterday
<elfy> zequence: I'll work with the 5 'menu' groups you have - Audio Production etc
<elfy> knome: somethings up with whatever package deals with keyboard settings, not sure which package it would be - but updates set keyboard layout to US - which can play havoc with passwords
<elfy> ochosi - maybe you know which it is 
<ali1234> it's a issue with ubuntu in general
<elfy> ok ali1234 thanks
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<jjfrv8> knome, slickymaster-job, my first cut of the MenuLibre section in the Settings & Preferences chapter: http://imagebin.org/292590
<jjfrv8> subject to change pending the decision on whiskermenu
<jjfrv8> if I'm going to work on the upstream version, I'm going to need a tutorial from bluesabre :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: we're planning on taking a decision in this week's meeting to finalize the panel stuff
<jjfrv8> cool
<elfy> let's hope enough people turn up then :)
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8: it looks great, so far
<slickymaster-job> but we really do need a tuto on it
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, sorry for not being there for the last few meetings, it wasn't that i didn't want to attend
<elfy> ochosi: lol - I didn't mean anyone in particular, just if there's not many about it won't help with the whisker menu thing :)
<ochosi> well depends, we've voted on it once before
<elfy> the general idea yea
<ochosi> the proposed panel layout would work without it as well
<ochosi> just not as nicely
<elfy> and not whisker - but the proposed layout is what I was meaning too 
<elfy> ochosi: which looks fine to me :)
<ochosi> yeah, it's not a real departure imo
<ochosi> so there's no need to make a huge fuss about it
<elfy> I agree
<ochosi> it's just a reduction of the current layout
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> since it's easy enough for ppl to customize it, i think that makes sense
<elfy> exactly - I'd love the default to be exactly like mine - but no-one else is likely to :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> everyone would like the default to be like theirs i guess
<elfy> I'd guess so - being human and inherently bone idle :)
<slickymaster-job> knome: ping
<knome> slickymaster-job, pong
<slickymaster-job> lol, i chased you on -off
<knome> heh
<knome> slickymaster-job, so yeah, i'll look at that
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, did you have something done re: the website updates?
<knome> we should really look into getting a new docs upload for beta 1
<knome> that would also close a lot of the -docs blueprint work items, so it would be more accurate
<Unit193> Some are pending, like shipping translations. :P
<knome> yep.
<knome> a lot of stuff is
<Unit193> Also did that http://paste.openstack.org/show/iPSpyiAk8MSRAog8pQR3
<knome> :)
<Unit193> I'm trying to make it so people don't try rm -r for fun, thus used rm -ir
<pleia2> knome: no, I was missing all weekend
<ochosi> ali1234: have you bothered tedg about indicators lately?
<ali1234> not this week no
<brainwash> can you link the bug report pls?
<brainwash> we could bump it a bit
<knome> pleia2, great to hear you've been found
<pleia2> :)
<ochosi> ali1234: feel like launching a combined "attack" on him now that he's around?
<ali1234> is he around?
 * knome ponders: hmm, pink wallpaper for trusty
<ochosi> yeah, he just was on #ubuntu-desktop
<pleia2> I LIEK PINK
<ochosi> ali1234: do you know what he has to fix technically speaking?
<ali1234> sure, i sent a MR
<ochosi> oh, i didn't know that
<ochosi> sry, seems i don't know the full backstory
<ali1234> i thought i mentioned it
<ochosi> you probably did, i wasn't at a few of the last meetings though
<slickymaster> hey knome, you still around?
<slickymaster> hey knome, you still around?
<knome> slickymaster, flooding the channel, aye?
<knome> :)
<slickymaster> nah, I hardly can feel my fingers
<slickymaster> got get myself some gloves :P
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> did you manage to browse through the wallpaper section?
<knome> nope, not yet
<knome> though you can poke jjfrv8 with them now
<knome> he's able to merge as well
<knome> and you don't need my ack for everything really :)
<slickymaster> yeah, good idea
<slickymaster> well, just playing on the safe side, even know you got a ton of issues between hands
<slickymaster> I'll try not to overload you so much
<knome> i did look really quickly at it, and what i saw looked fine
<slickymaster> I'll ping jjfrv8 on it
<slickymaster> if he's also ok with it, I'll make a MP for review
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: here's my proposal for the xfdestop of the settings-preferences chapter: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6911856/
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: please ping on your opinion
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ping
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<ochosi> knome: just to give you a quick heads up, since ali1234 and i just talked to tedg about gtk3 indicators in #ubuntu-desktop
<knome> okay
<ochosi> there's no clear ETA on fixing the indicators on the ubuntu side
<knome> but i guess it
<ochosi> they just pushed the half-borked stuff to get more time
 * bluesabre starts working on menulibre upstream documentation
<knome> ...it's happening before T?
<knome> bluesabre, :)
<ochosi> because FF doesn't apply to this "bugfix"
<ali1234> i don't think they did it on purpose
<ochosi> i think it's a bit nasty, but we should do the same
<knome> ochosi, yep.
<ochosi> yeah, ali1234 is right i guess, and i didn't mean to make it sound like they did it on purpose
<ali1234> it was pushed months ago
<ochosi> just unhappy phrasing
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure this will get fixed in time
<ochosi> for T
<ochosi> but not for FF
<knome> ACK, i'm fine with that
<ochosi> and i also think there'll be no panel-release on the xfce-side before FF
<ochosi> so we should push what we have
<ali1234> it has to get fixed really, otherwise unity will be broken, as previously stated
<ochosi> (is my conclusion)
<knome> ochosi, as long as it doesn't render anything completely unusable, sure
<ali1234> if we're pushing a git snapshot anyway, i recommend somehow putting in the workaround if possible
<brainwash> ali1234: is unity really broken too? indicators seem to work fine like they always did
<knome> ali1234, that means more work though
<ali1234> brainwash: it's a race condition
<knome> ali1234, we've just concluded that we shouldn't do workarounds
<ochosi> bluesabre: ?
<ali1234> the workaround = putting a variable in the environment
<brainwash> ali1234: oh, never encountered it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: whoopsie, that wasn't intended like that :)
<bluesabre> ?
<ali1234> at the very least we should tell testers to apply the workaround manually
<ali1234> and then add it to the release notes if it's still not fixed by then
<ochosi> +1
<ali1234> the workaround is "echo INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes | sudo tee -a /etc/environment"
<brainwash> it should check for the current session
<ali1234> no, it shouldn't, because it is broken on all sessions
<ali1234> including unity
<ochosi> ali1234: session restart needed after that i presume?
<ali1234> right
<ochosi> ali1234: indicator-application still doesn't want to start
<ochosi> or do i have to reboot?
<ali1234> hmm. yeah you might have to reboot
<ali1234> check env?
<ochosi> yup, need reboot
<ali1234> check the /etc/environment is okay too
<ali1234> it might have put it on the same line or something
<ochosi> PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes"
<ali1234> yeah that's wrong
<ochosi> should be in a separate line?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> also it shouldn't be inside the quotes like that
<ali1234> you did it manually?
<ochosi> no, used your suggested command
<ali1234> where did the extra : come from? ;)
<ochosi> oh, hm
<ochosi> might've added that manually some other time then :)
<ali1234> i don't know if /etc/environment has a trailing newline by default, but it should do
<ochosi> yup, that worked
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-11
<ochosi> behold, trusty's new greeter looks: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-11-005943.php
<knome> note, the ugly lego person not included by default
 * knome hides
<ochosi> yeah, that's your loss though!
<bluesabre> fancy
<bluesabre> btw, documentation is not very fun
<bluesabre> sorry slickymaster and jjfrv8 for making you do so much :)
<slickymaster> np, bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, depends... ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre+1
<bluesabre> so, once I populate this with more than old screenshots and lorem ipsum, it should be sufficient, slickymaster? http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=menulibre_usage
<slickymaster> lol bluesabre, wasn't that the parole docs?
<bluesabre> quick copy+paste job :)
<bluesabre> and adding the dos structure
<bluesabre> *docs
<slickymaster> but yeah, I think that we'll be able to work with it
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> I'll try to wrap that up tonight
<slickymaster> thanks for that bluesabre 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: ^^^
<bluesabre> sure thing
<jjfrv8> just got here and saw it. thanks.
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Hello!
<slickymaster> hey, jjfrv8 my proposal for the xfdestop of the settings-preferences chapter: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6911856/
<slickymaster> ping me after you see it
<jjfrv8> hey, Unit193 
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, will take a look here in a sec
<slickymaster> if you're ok with it, I'll make a MP
<slickymaster> okie dokie
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, will the MenuLibre docs have to be flavor-agnostic, unlike the xfce stuff we've done up til now?
<jjfrv8> or maybe not agnostic actually but show things like how it works with Unity?
<ali1234> does it even work with unity?
<jjfrv8> in his screencast on his website, the older version did
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: I'll add screenshots for each DE and a section on that support
<bluesabre> ali1234: unity, xfce, gnome, lxde, cimmamon, mate
<ali1234> kde?
<bluesabre> never tried
 * bluesabre is not a fan of qt/kde
<ali1234> it should do, they have a menu and it uses xdg
<bluesabre> but theoretically it should
<bluesabre> it's based on alacarte's code
<bluesabre> but, it works
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I should check that out at some point
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> though I think kde has their own menu editor
<slickymaster> I'm off 
<knome> hf slickymaster 
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, sorry, I know it's late for you. I should have my comments ready for you tomorrow
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: I'll catch up on your feedback on the logs, later on
<slickymaster> cy guys tomorrow
<slickymaster> ->
<Unit193> jjfrv8: So do you want me to set -R jjfrv8 on every MP? :P
<jjfrv8> will I know any more about them than the first one?
<Unit193> Hah, there's a chance.  Just thinking generally.
<jjfrv8> sure, why not. I might even learn something.
<Unit193> (Not from me! :P )
<jjfrv8> :)
<elfy> knome: thanks - missed that 
<knome> elfy, what? :)
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> section 1/3 complete: http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=menulibre_usage
<bluesabre> *phew*
<knome> bluesabre, ooh ooh
<knome> off, see you all later
<forestpiskie> ochosi: no way to do anything other than log back in when logged out presently - all the menu's have gone
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, my comments/suggestions at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6912644/  The line numbers refer to those in your original paste.
<bluesabre> foresktpiskie: edit lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, comment out show-indicators
<bluesabre> i.e. 
<bluesabre> #show-indicators=
<a5m0> hmm my mainline kernel updater installed the low-latency kernel :/ not sure if good or bad
<Noskcaj> ochosi, pong
<Noskcaj> There's too much scrollback for me to read that, plus i have cadets in two hours
<forestpiskie> bluesabre: thanks
<forestpiskie> ochosi: the user box in the login screen is half black/half white here :)
<ochosi> forestpiskie: yes i know, xubuntu-default-settings are currently lacking
<ochosi> forestpiskie: the other thing is that a greybird update hasn't landed yet
<elfy> ok - just shouting out when I see stuff :)
<ochosi> i pushed it already yesterday, but you'll have to wait for them to land
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> i appreciate it
<ochosi> it's really really annoying that we can't even push to x-d-s, so merge-requests are just hanging out there
<elfy> I can understand that - is the change to lightlocker from xscreensaver waiting for the same thing? I assume so
<ochosi> yeah, it's similar
<ochosi> i mean someone would still have to upload changes, but without even having them in our bzr branches, who would upload them...
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> what is x-d-s?
<elfy> xubuntu default settings
<elfy> I saw that micahg was actioned to push Noskcaj's dmb membership to e-mail voting yesterday 
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> did anything happen there?
<elfy> only that it was pushed to e-mial vote
 * elfy apparently got subscribed to a whole bunch of stuff as a byproduct of being in the CC 
<elfy> much scratching of head ensued ... 
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> ochosi: aaand - login box is now white and offwhite - so I guess that's the greybird update
<Unit193> No more black. :(
<elfy> no more black
<elfy> #useful - can see things without glasses again :p
<ochosi> good to hear
<zequence> Does Xubuntu have both xubuntu and xfce sessions? And if not, how do you go about removing the xfce session?
<ochosi> it does
<zequence> ok. thanks
<ali1234> it has both sessions but there are no obvious differences between them last time i tried
<ochosi> i think less stuff is started by default in xfce, and settings are more upstreamy
<ochosi> e.g. menu-file
<elfy> ochosi: when you know that xscreensaver and light-locker are sorted in the seed could you remind me - I'll need to sync the test tracker for it
<ochosi> elfy: ok, will do
<ochosi> but generally, i don't know who will update the seed (i guess micahg ?)
<ochosi> there should be merge-requests ready
<ochosi> if not, they'd be easy enough to do
<elfy> yea understood - I'm completely at sea tbh - I generally only notice when I go and physically look, unless I remember to check changelogs - and it's usually updating during the first cuppa ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: There are.
<elfy> Unit193: thanks
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<ochosi> morning
<slickymaster-job> morning ac
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: 
<elfy> hi slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> hey elfy, good morning
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: can you confirm me whether the Xfdesktop -docs will be migrated to docs.xfce.org/ before docfreeze?
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8: didn't knew about that convention. In the Mugshot section I just used &mugshot; so I'm going to reflect the convention also there so it will be corrected.
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8: As for the other suggestions, I think you're right and I've made the necessary changes accordingly
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: when is doc-freeze again?
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: March, 20th
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: I'm asking because, presently we have its section in the Xub -docs yet linking to bluesabre's wiki
<ochosi> yeah, i thought you were asking because of that
<ochosi> i'll see to it that it gets there in time
<ochosi> i've already thought of two ways, 1) being the versioned docs, 2) being updating what's there now
<ochosi> and i asked eric and he's fine with it
<ochosi> so basically i'll wait for the versioned docs a little longer and in case that doesn't happen in time, we can land them in the mixed mode
<ochosi> (i.e. reflecting 4.8-4.12)
<slickymaster-job> ok, let us wait then
<ochosi> well, i suggest you change the ref in the xubuntu-docs to xfce.org already now
<ochosi> that way we're not dependant on anything
<ochosi> (i have edit-rights on docs.xfce.org to the worst)
<ochosi> with dependant i mean: dependant on freezes or anything
<ochosi> as long as docs.xfce gets an update before our release, it's fine if our docs point there
<slickymaster-job> ok, I'm going to do a MP by lunch time and I'll include that correction in it also
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> if you're tracking the docs-process somehow, feel free to put in a workitem for you or me that says "check whether docs.xfce already holds info on xfdesktop4.11"
<slickymaster-job> thanks for the heads up, ochosi 
<ochosi> that way we can keep an overview
<ochosi> no problemo
<slickymaster-job> just a last thing ochosi, the link will still be http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/start, right?
<ochosi> yes, ideally it will
<slickymaster-job> ok, I'll use that one
<ochosi> thing is, with versioned docs it might be xfdesktop/4.12/start
<ochosi> but we'll see about that
<ochosi> point to the master-page now
<slickymaster-job> okie dokie, I'll use http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/start for now, and if needed it will be corrected
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> (or we add a notice on that start page that there are docs for multiple versions)
<slickymaster-job> if it gets to that, it's a good solution
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: added that in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193 could you prepare a new xubuntu-docs upload?
<Unit193> knome: Translations?
<knome> would really like to get all the new stuff in the branch in in trusty now
<knome> Unit193, with or without translations, maybe latter would be better if it's doable
<Unit193> Pending review?
<Unit193> Ah, then perhaps don't merge that yet.
<knome> would be good to get them in relatively soon
<bluesabre> knome: could you poke micahg to get some traction on the merge requests?
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> FF is approaching...
<knome> bluesabre, i have
<bluesabre> k, thanks :)
<knome> micahg, ping
<Unit193> [knome] Find out how to ship translated documentation: DONE  Oh?
<knome> Unit193, well, your work item
<knome> Unit193, basically, we know how (one way) to ship them
<knome> and i'm fine with that
<Unit193> Well, it's quite static, build time too. :/
<knome> that's better than no translations for trusty
<knome> we can improve it later
<Unit193> OK.
<knome> or do you have an idea how to pull out a developer from nowhere along with more time for micahg?
<knome> it's not too late to improve them this cycle
 * Unit193 is no dev. :D
<knome> well that's why i was asking whether you knew how to get one to appear from nowhere :P
<bluesabre> if we could summon mrpouit, he can also handle mergey stuff
<knome> but seriously... just shipping translations in any way is a huge improvement from the situation in 12.04 when released (outdated docs with no translations)
<knome> if the build time is slow, who cares?
<knome> we don't have dozens of languages anyway
<Unit193> Build time = updated at build time.
<knome> hmm well,
<knome> we could drop that
<Unit193> I'd like ru finished, and es at >80, but meh.
<knome> and just make sure we've updated before.
<Unit193> No, there is no updated at build time, that's my point. :P
<knome> aha
<Unit193> Anywho, got a mockup?
<knome> for what?
<knome> the languages frontpage?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<knome> btw, are we translating the startpage?
<knome> no?
<knome> the languages landing page needs to be similar to that
<knome> do we want to translate those?
<knome> do you know how to add a similar page?
<Unit193> As far as I know, no, there is no translation of the startpage.
<knome> considering the user picks a translation there...
<knome> maybe it isn't sane to translate it
<knome> unless we can get automatic language probing.
<knome> was thinking we could try to use some JS, but looks like there isn't really a clean way to get even browsers language preferences?
<knome> -?
<Unit193> I wouldn't.
<knome> and i wonder if those are even updated when using another language in ubuntu, probably not
<knome> point being, if you don't have JS, then you'll get the english version
<knome> if you do, and non-english language that exist is identified, you'd get redirected to the language version
<Unit193> Landing page English, Language names in those Languages.  Can depend on that the most really.
<knome> you think we should add those in the main about page, or another?
<knome> was thinking it could be a list in the main page as well
<knome> maybe not one per line, but a long listing at the bottom
<Unit193> http://unit193.net/xubuntu/ <---- that page.
<knome> that's a bit meh
<Unit193> (Not like how I have it.)
<knome> blah
<knome> maybe we should review that page altogether
<Unit193> Don't like it on that one?  Where else?
<knome> reworked.
<knome> we should probably drop the introduction paragraph.
<knome> at least the "the ubuntu project..."
<knome> then maybe add a new heading for "xubuntu documentation"
<knome> and rename "get help & support" to "other support methods" or sth.
<knome> and rethink the "report bugs"
<knome> maybe we could be a bit more verbose on the "get involved" section
<knome> and drop the "report bugs" bullet point
<knome> i'll come up with a new draft for that today.
<slickymaster> knome: if you'd be so kind: https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/205771
<knome> slickymaster, done
<slickymaster> ok, knome 
<slickymaster> thanks
<knome> no problem
<knome> slickymaster, now go update the blueprint;)
<slickymaster> i'll do it when i get back to work
<knome> have been cleaning them up again, already looks better: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> well i can do that now, i have the page open
<slickymaster> having lunch as i type
<knome> done
<slickymaster> appreciate it
<slickymaster> tk :)
<knome> heh, np
<knome> rather update the blueprints than do all the work items ;)
<slickymaster> no doubts about that ;)
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: bug 1277149 ?
<ubottu> bug 1277149 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar's "set as wallpaper" plugin doesn't work anymore with xfdesktop4.11" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277149
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre:  [xubuntu-dev] Look into creating a GUI for light-locker settings (or integrate into xfce4-powermanager): TODO ?
<ochosi> knome: what about that bug, there's already a branch by Noskcaj
<ochosi> and yeah, not sure what will happen wrt light-locker UI
<knome> ochosi, okay, is it being tested?
<ochosi> by whom?
<knome> anybody?
<ochosi> not sure?
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: do we have to backport all the xfdesktop fixes/changes?
<brainwash> currently I only report upstream and hope that a new possible release will land in trusty eventually
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<ochosi> brainwash: if there's a bugfix-only release, we can get that in after FF
<ochosi> if there are no features, then we can't, that's the easy rule
<ochosi> asking for exceptions is possible, but tedious
<brainwash> is adjusting the icon size/spacing a bug fix? :)
<brainwash> the new release will be a mix of bug fixes and small new features I guess :/
<brainwash> ochosi: can you confirm https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10685 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10685 in General "wallpaper thumbnails are missing sometimes" [Minor,New]
<brainwash> or is your SSD too fast?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i think i see that as well
<Noskcaj> ochosi, you pinged?
<ochosi> Noskcaj-school: yeah, i just wanted to inform you about the gtk3 indicators/panel status
<ochosi> what i pinged you about came after the ping
 * Noskcaj-school searches for logs
<ochosi> Noskcaj-school: head-line: we should try to get our stuff independently of whether ubuntu manages to fix the indicators before FF
<ochosi> because they can also fix them afterwards (and probably will)
<ochosi> and we can do the same, if a panel-release happens after FF
<ochosi> and i vaguely remember you mentioned preparing them for uploading soonish
<Noskcaj-school> ok, i'll get some git snapshots working on when i get home
<ochosi> great!
<brainwash> we also need a new xfce4-indicator-plugin release
<ochosi> yeah, but that's pending on the panel-release
<ochosi> so git-snapshot for both now
<ochosi> and update them to release as soon as possible
<brainwash> can you confirm https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10658 in Panel "GTK3 indicator area background turns transparent/black occasionally" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> not that important anymore, because you intend to make the panel transparent (80%)
<brainwash> so this glitch won't occur
<ochosi> yeah, but still, it should be fixed
<ochosi> and your patch looks valid at first glance
<brainwash> that would be great
<Unit193> Sure it will, just might not notice as much.  Also non-default config.
<ochosi> and i can reproduce it
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> andrzejr: could you take a look at this bug and the patch attached? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10658 in Panel "GTK3 indicator area background turns transparent/black occasionally" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> I guess that eric should have a look and fix it
<ochosi> eric has no push-rights to the panel
<ochosi> so he could only prepare a patch
<brainwash> yes, but he provided the transparency fix initially
<ochosi> but since you did that already, it's better to ask someone who has push-rights to the panel
<brainwash> I'll add Andrzej to the cc list then
<brainwash> better fix the stuff now and don't bother with it later before or even after release
<brainwash> ochosi: no bold font for the icon labels anymore, correct?
<ochosi> brainwash: you mean in the panel?
<ochosi> and if so, where exactly?
<brainwash> nono, xfdesktop
<brainwash> font is normal now, was bold before
<ochosi> yeah, murrine's shadow setting is broken, so xfdesktop's is used instead
<ochosi> can't draw a shadow around the whole character anymore
<ochosi> and that turned out more readable, end of story
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> knome: re: the patch for thunar, it was written by xfdesktop's maintainer, so i'd presume it works fine
<ochosi> and it's fairly clear why the current plugin can't work and what has to be done
<ochosi> so a rather straight-forward thingy
<knome> ochosi, sure, thanks
<dockelley> Hi, can anyone tell me the status of time-admin and users-admin in Xubuntu trusty?  I can't find them in alpha2.  "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?" --Chicago -
<ochosi> dockelley: how can you not find them?
<ochosi> they're in the settings-manager here (also on trusty, daily though)
<brainwash> dockelley: gnome-system-tools got fixed, you should download and apply the latest updates
<knome> they might have been not around for alpha 2, there was some failed packaging magic...
<dockelley> Thanks so much. That installed them.  Now I can know who and when I am!
<slickymaster> hey, if gst finally got fixed, bug 1185396 can also finally be solved
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<brainwash> and bug 1016932
<ubottu> bug 1016932 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Setting user as administrator doesn't give him sudoing rights" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016932
<brainwash> too bad it's not maintained properly anymore
<slickymaster> yeah, but apparently gst still has a maintainer at debian
<brainwash> ..who did not comment on your debian report yet :(
<brainwash> will the normal user even notice this segfault?
<brainwash> apport gets deactivated on release
<slickymaster> you're right brainwash not even taht he has been able to do so far
<slickymaster> IMO, no. 
<brainwash> maybe the MATE guys fixed it in their fork mate-system-tools
<brainwash> I'll take a look at their changelog
<slickymaster> it would be great if they did
<brainwash> but.. does it still segfault? I did confirm that it does on trusty back in december
<brainwash> and apport is enabled since alpha 1 or?
<ochosi> xnox: ping
<ochosi> xnox: since you offered your help once in case we were in need of an uploader, this would be a package waiting for upload: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1279113
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1279113 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xubuntu-community-artwork" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I think xnox is a debian maintainer
<Unit193> Both.
<xnox> bluesabre: am a Debian Developer and Ubuntu Core Dev.
<bluesabre> super cow powers
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> indeed :)
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> xnox: does that mean you get two copies of every valve game?
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, no, it means he gets double bug mail
<bluesabre> and he hangs around us
<bluesabre> poor xnox
<knome> maybe he's a bug mail collector
<knome> bugistelia
<ArchXfce> Hi!
<ochosi> !hello
<ubottu> Hi!, Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines. Enjoy your stay!
<ArchXfce> I'm an Archlinux user that simply loves Xfce and the work you did with Xubuntu.
 * knome bows
<knome> ouch! the forehead hit the table!
<ArchXfce> I'm trying to use some of yours indicator on Arch, but it seems I've got some problems...
<Unit193> Is the AUR pulling from bzr or a released version?  What's wrong?
<ochosi> ... and have you read this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/Gtk3Indicators
<ochosi> (and the other one at s/Saucy/Trusty/)
<ArchXfce> I can add the indicator plugin to the panel, but even if I install an indicator, it won't appear there.
<ArchXfce> Mmm... So basically all my packages are outdated?
<ArchXfce> 12 Unity-for-Arch/indicator-sound 12.10.2daily13.11.25-101 (unity) [installed] 15 Unity-for-Arch/libdbusmenu-glib 12.10.3daily13.11.25-100 (unity) [installed] 16 Unity-for-Arch/libdbusmenu-gtk2 12.10.3daily13.11.25-100 (unity) [installed] 17 Unity-for-Arch/libdbusmenu-gtk3 12.10.3daily13.11.25-100 (unity) [installed: 12.10.2-3] 19 Unity-for-Arch/libindicator 12.10.2daily14.01.29-100 (unity) [installed] 29 Unity-for-Arch-Extra/x
<Unit193> ArchXfce: What about xfce4-panel?  Needs to be from git and compiled with the gtk3 wrapper.
<ochosi> that's one way to look at it
<ochosi> or you use the gtk2 indicators only
<ochosi> (the ones that work are -sound and -application)
<ArchXfce> Unit193: thanks, but I prefer (if I can make it work) the solution proposed by ochosi. The problem is, I've got indicator-sound installed, but it won't show up and I don't know how to get some information on what's wrong.
<ArchXfce> Is there a way to launch it from the terminal to see what I'm missing?
<Unit193> I see, then you will need the indicator-sound-gtk2 package, and you get get more output if you run the panel from the terminal.
<ArchXfce> Unit193: thanks, but I see that I need gtk2-ubuntu package to make it work. I think I'll do it tomorrow.
<ochosi> good luck then
<knome> ArchXfce, remember... if everything fails, you can always install xubuntu
<ArchXfce> Just a question: if I want to do it exactly *the Xubuntu way* should I compile the gtk3 version?
<Unit193> ochosi: What was the last xfce4-indicator-plugin to work with gtk2?
<ochosi> 1.0 iirc
<ochosi> from 2.0 it supported gtk3 only
<ArchXfce> knome: I already use Xubuntu at work, at home I prefer something more *fun* :D
<knome> ArchXfce, building packages is fun?
 * knome makes note not to attend ArchXfce's "parties" ;)
<ArchXfce> knome: building packages, trying to do exotic things like *steal* other DE component... I like those things :D
<ochosi> daily packages of the indicator-plugin can be found here btw: https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/xfce-daily
<ochosi> lderan: peng!
<knome> ArchXfce, have fun with that :)
<ali1234> ArchXfce: you need very up to date indicator libraries for it to work
<lderan> ochosi, hello
<ArchXfce> Ok, let's consider this a challenge, I'll try to do my best
<ochosi> lderan: disclaimer: knome set me up to this!
<ArchXfce> Thanks *A LOT* for the informations!
<ochosi> lderan: soo, he mentioned that you might be up to writing a small settings UI in python..?
<knome> hah!
<lderan> ochosi, sounds interesting
<ArchXfce> Have a nice day/night, bye!
<ochosi> lderan: we've been thinking about doing one for light-locker
<lderan> ah i see cool
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna subscribe the sponsors to the wallpaper-pkg bug?
<ochosi> lderan: there are not many settings to implement, but the crucial thing is that we don't store the settings anywhere currently
<Unit193> Kind of want a pointer on how to upload one that has (LP: 923487)  without changing the version that'll be in Ubuntu. :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 982421 in Me TV "duplicate for #923487 "epg_event row replaced for id" is causing high usage of harddrive" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982421
<ochosi> lderan: so we might have to work around that somehow, should be still possible as a xubuntu-only solution for now though
<lderan> ochosi, i would be up for that :D
<ochosi> lderan: cool, mind if i PM you about that instead of flooding this chan?
<lderan> sure
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-12
<ali1234> when i run steam the indicator background goes transparent
<Unit193> Updates do it for me.
<bluesabre> looking at it funny does it for me
<bluesabre> slickymaster, jjfrv8: let me know if you need me to document anything beyond this. http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=menulibre_usage
<bluesabre> I'll try to populate the other menulibre pages now
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, thanks. I'll read through it while doing upgrade tests :)
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> finished the rest of the pages too
<bluesabre> menulibre docs: http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<ochosi> ali1234: have you tested the patch here yet? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10658 in Panel "GTK3 indicator area background turns transparent/black occasionally" [Normal,New]
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I've read through the pages and they did shed some light for me.
<jjfrv8> once I get my machine back after the upgrade testing I'll try working with it again.
<jjfrv8> I had some issues with launchers disappearing after adding and saving and I couldn't figure out how to get a launcher to go under a newly added directory
<jjfrv8> but maybe I was doing something wrong.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that might be something I overlooked
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and make it so new launchers added when a directory is selected are inserted in that directory
<jjfrv8> alrighty
<bluesabre> I'll shoot for a new release this weekend
<jjfrv8> first time ever in my life I've done an actual upgrade. is this normal? http://imagebin.org/292848
<Unit193> Just about, though I use do-release-upgrade myself.
<jjfrv8> ok, I was following the testcase: update-manager -d -c
<Unit193> (I'm putting in context, not quite sure what the GUI will have.)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: usually we only get those during the dev cycle
<jjfrv8> ok, so no need to report it then?
<jjfrv8> back tomorrow (today)
<bluesabre> probably safe to report it just in case, but it has probably already been logged by somebody
<Noskcaj> ochosi, current error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6918300/
<Noskcaj> ochosi, any idea about the ftbfs?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: why is configure running twice?
<Noskcaj> I have no idea
<Noskcaj> perhaps the dh_autoreconf xdt-autogen
<ochosi> the last build problem i saw and that we got fixed in the daily packages for the indicator-plugin was related to that
<ochosi> it ran ./autogen.sh first and then ./configure
<ochosi> anyhow, it's weird, that first there's no gtk3 support and in the second configure there suddenly is
<Noskcaj> I'll have a look at the daily ppa package.
<ochosi> the daily PPA package is only for the indicator-plugin though
<ochosi> and it's here: https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/xfce-daily
<Noskcaj> Yeah, but i can probably copy d/rules
<ali1234> ochosi: that patch isn't right :/
<ali1234> eric_the_idiot: what do you think https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10658 in Panel "GTK3 indicator area background turns transparent/black occasionally" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> (the patch patches your patch)
<ali1234> maybe it should actually if if(alpha > 0 || ..
<Unit193> knome: Can you approve half or my merge now, half later? :P
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<knome> Unit193, hah, you got to do two separate merges in that case :P
<ochosi> #info: new light-locker stable release (1.2) planned for the weekend (adds time-based locking feature), bregma said he'll try to package it before FF
<ochosi> folks, have any of you noticed how unusable awful gthumb looks in trusty?
<ochosi> it uses a headerbar, which ubuntu patched out in all other gnome3 apps, not sure why this one slipped
<brainwash> ochosi: so they patched most of the gnome 3.10 apps to hide it.. interesting
<ochosi> yup, e.g. evince
<ochosi> it even has a normal menu again \o/
<ochosi> asked around, seems we'd have to fix gthumb ourselves. do we really want to ship an app with two window-decorations? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-12-150415.php
<ochosi> ali1234: do you think your xfwm4 patch would be safe to include in 14.04 to prevent this mess ^ ?
<Arch-Xfce> Hi everyone, it's me, again :D
<Arch-Xfce> Sadly, I can't find a way to compile easily ido-gtk2 on my Arch box and I need that software to have Xubuntu sound gtk2 indicator on Arch.
<Arch-Xfce> But I'm not easy to scare so I'm looking for some instruction to compile xfce-panel with gtk3 support.
<Arch-Xfce> Someone can help me or point me to some sort of guide?
<Arch-Xfce> Thanks.
 * knome points Arch-Xfce to #archlinux
<knome> wait
 * knome is good at misreading today
<Arch-Xfce> Well, in this you're probably right since it's not directly a Xubuntu problem.
<knome> though i'd still ask that channel about ido-gtk2
<knome> and possibly #xfce-dev for the gtk3 panel stuff
<Arch-Xfce> Thanks anyway ;)
<Arch-Xfce> ^^
<knome> no problem, and good luck
<eric_the_idiot> ali1234, unless we're doing sanity checks on the alpha value, why have the if statement? I submitted a patch to the bug report.
<knome> is there anybody in the team who would be interested in being an admin for the xubuntu facebook and/or google+ groups?
<knome> or, why not outside the team as well
<holstein> knome: you can put me on the short list
<holstein> knome: i admin a facebook LUG page
<knome> holstein, you should be in touch with pleia2 
<knome> holstein, we have a few admins per group, but we're looking to add more people into them
<holstein> knome: not sure about G+, but, i bet i can handle it
<knome> holstein, so it's not like you'd have to take care "running" them really...
<holstein> yeah.. just check in every now and then.. i can do that
<holstein> get alerts and put out fires :)
<knome> yep, and maybe post a news here and then or so
<holstein> sure.. 
<knome> something like that :)
<knome> pleia2, ping!
<knome> holstein, and thanks! i'd be happy to add you to the admins :)
<knome> elfy, what are your plans re: the "improving QA tasks"? would you like to do that during the cycle, or after?
<ArchXfce> Hi everyone, I'm trying to compile xfce4-panel with gtk3 support
<ArchXfce> I already tried with --enable-gtk3 and --with-gtk3 but with no success.
<ArchXfce> What kind of option I need to pass to autogen.sh?
<ArchXfce> Thanks :D
<ArchXfce> I already asked on #xfce and #xfce-dev with no success :(
<holstein> they will be the ones to answer.. its coming from them
<holstein> i would just go back to the basics. do you have everything that is required..
<ArchXfce> holstein: I know, but I also know that many people here know the kung fu of Xfce, so...
<ArchXfce> Yes, I've got everything, it just give me this warning: configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-gtk3
<ArchXfce> So I guess I'm passing the wrong parameter to autogen.sh
<holstein> sure.. and im not kicking you out of here, or anything... im just saying, its not from here
<holstein> why would that be a recognized option?
<ArchXfce> holstein: I don't know, with Parole or libxfceui I can enable gtk3 support this way
<holstein> ArchXfce: sure.. but, they are different applications with different code
<holstein> ArchXfce: you would need to talk to who creates that code and ask how to enable that, specifically
<ArchXfce> holstein: just found out that xfce4-panel is already with gtk3 support... I'm an idiot.
<ArchXfce> Thanks ;)
<pleia2> I still haven't got into contact with the g+ guy to add more admins :(
<pleia2> happy to have holstein added as fb admin, the RSS syncing takes care of actual posting, the work is mostly responding to private messages (mostly answering "please ask support questions in public areas, $link")
<holstein> pleia2: im into it.. however i can help
<pleia2> holstein: can you PM me the email address you use for facebook? (only way I can add new admins)
<knome> pleia2, what kind of contact information did we have for the g+ admin again?
<pleia2> knome: google hangouts/talk, sharing posts on g+ (which should email him, depending on settings)
<knome> we don't have a direct email?
<knome> and what's his name again
<pleia2> I sent a message in hangouts a couple days ago, previously shared a post
<knome> okay
<pleia2> Knez Nenc
<knome> hope he asnwers soon
<pleia2> https://plus.google.com/u/0/102187694603676153622/posts
<pleia2> hasn't posted in a while :\
<pleia2> had I known that regular admins couldn't add new people, I would have handled this resource differently!
<knome> UFFF
<knome> any idea how google handles takeovers?
<pleia2> that's my next avenue of exploration
<knome> oki, thanks for taking care
<Noskcaj> thunar fix is done, xkb-plugin is now 0.7, might need testing
<Noskcaj> Do we have a decision on what default menu we'll have for 14.04 yet?
<Unit193> Default is still the same.
<Unit193> ochosi: Another option since gthumb has that terrible menu problem would be to drop it, it's not really needed since Ristretto isn't so terrible anymore.
<Noskcaj> +1, it's better to use xfce stuff rather than gnome's forgotten child
<Unit193> Actually, it's more that Gnome didn't forget about it that broke it. :P
<Noskcaj> Stupid panel, why won't you build
<knome> ochosi, Unit193: i've always wondered if we really need gthumb, and you've been telling me "camera support"
 * Unit193 hasn't.
<Noskcaj> I never really understood the need for gthumb, but t least it's not two years outdated anymore
<knome> which is a boring argument, because most of the cameras are supported through... whatever it's called, but they are mounted as drives anyway
<knome> Noskcaj, camera support and collection management over a basic image viewer.
<knome> GridCube, had time to do testing this cycle?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: https://unit193.net/xfce/
<knome> Unit193, 'lo
 * Unit193 runs.
<knome> not asking for anything
<knome> yet
<Unit193> Howdy.
<brainwash> anyone here testing gtk3 indicators (especially the sound one)?
<brainwash> bug 1231796 needs some attention
<ubottu> bug 1231796 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Loading animation fails/looks bad when starting a player" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231796
<brainwash> low priority
<Unit193> "PEND - Add process-related tasks as events in the xubuntu team calendar" <--- You happy with what I've done so far, knome?
<knome> yes
<knome> you might have noticed i added some more events
<Unit193> To the wiki or calendar?  Any I missed?
<knome> calendar
<knome> added beta2 dates
<knome> and such
<elfy> knome: there were a bunch of things added to the blueprint, you can mark them MEH or POSTPONED 
<elfy> whichever
<knome> hah
<knome> like? :)
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/ODz3dqxV7oZje09yf3pQ/
<knome> Unit193, ack
<knome> though i don't know about the urgency field
<knome> do other docs packages have medium?
<Unit193> knome: At least in Debian, it's the new default.
<Unit193> If you don't like, drop back to low.
<knome> i'm more than fine with it
<knome> just wanted to check that it's the norm
<knome> pleia2, welcome back!
<pleia2> linode is having issues today :(
<Unit193> knome: Well, I don't technically know in Ubuntu. :P
<Unit193> knome: But, that's the packaging update, can build off of that and upload.
<knome> yep
<knome> looks good to me
<Unit193> If I can upload without filing another bug, then I'll do it.  If not, I'll punt over to bluesabre. :P
<knome> :P
<Unit193> So, we're clearly all neglecting QA. :/
<Unit193> knome: Ohohoh!  I can just steal #1251332 or #1238718!
<ochosi> knome: i'm in favor of dropping gthumb and always was in favor of that
<ochosi> shotwell is far better at managing collections, for what i personally need
<ochosi> fwiw, i've reported a bug upstream about the problem with the headerbar in xfce
<knome> ochosi, heh, so you are actually proposing to replace gthumb with something else?
<ochosi> yeah, s/gthumb//
<knome> so you're not
<knome> you are proposing to drop
<knome> not replace
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i was just making the point that even for what it does, i don't like it so much ;)
<knome> also,
<knome> you going to be able to make the meeting tomorrow?
<ochosi> i'm seriously planning on
<ochosi> cause there are some updates
<ochosi> and i haven't been there for a few
<Unit193> I don't have updates. \o/
<knome> ochosi, good.
<knome> Unit193, in that case, can you add the gthumb-issue to the agenda?
<knome> is there somebody who'd be willing to chair the meeting tomorrow?
<ochosi> knome: you won't be there?
<knome> i most probably will, but i think it would be beneficial for the project that somebody else than the soon-not-to-be-project-lead-anymore would be willing/able to chair a meeting
<Unit193> knome: Erm, I have no real reasons to remove it other than the silly header bars not working, I hardly ever use it, and all that.
<slickymaster> maybe elfy?
<knome> Unit193, i wasn't asking your opinion, we can discuss that tomorrow :P
<Unit193> Depends if the wiki is terrible.
<knome> well if it is, it's a project for the whole evening
<GridCube> knome, to be honest no, i've not tested much
<GridCube> only once in alpha 1
<knome> GridCube, do you think you'll be able to do run more testing later?
<Unit193> knome: I have to leave in ~5. :P
<knome> GridCube, also, if not, or even if yes, would you like to help some other way?
<knome> Unit193, you can come back to it later, you slimy procrastinator
<GridCube> yes sure
<GridCube> sincerely i just forget to do it
<Unit193> knome: ...It won't keep me logged in. :/
<knome> no problem, but good that i reminded you then ;)
<knome> Unit193, :P
<Unit193> Also, had a shower, not slimy. \o/
<knome> hah
<Unit193> knome: Not kidding, I just logged in, and now it's signed me out.
<knome> yeah
<knome> probably won't keep me in either, so...
<Unit193> Wait, I'm in. \o/
<knome> GridCube, we also have the flyer in progress, so you might want to poke pleia2 about that
<GridCube> the windows to xubuntu thing?
<knome> also, always things to translate
<GridCube> i've heard something about that but not much really
<knome> no, that's done and was released already
<GridCube> true
<knome> it was mostly a startubuntu project
<knome> we're planning our own flyer
<knome> it's been ongoing for a while...
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers
<knome> not sure if all the prepared/written content is there
<pleia2> we have a google doc, sec
<Unit193> Someone on the bugs team may want to subscribe to the not yet existing xubuntu-community-artwork source package.
<pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcujR5HnBbu7Lc28ICn6la_EEVEs_vt6NkjoYQSCRps/edit?usp=sharing
<pleia2> the wiki page is "ideas" - that google doc is what we're firming up for real
<Unit193> pleia2: Sorry, I know you asked me, but I couldn't think of :words:
<Unit193> I'll take another look, just can't now.
<Unit193> knome: Done, actually.
<pleia2> Unit193: it's ok, you can make it up to me by chairing the meeting tomorrow :)
<knome> Unit193, ta ;)
<pleia2> it's easy, just wave your hands around and copy what knome did in the last meeting (that's what I do)
<knome> yes, chairing the meeting works
<knome> pleia2, hehe
<pleia2> I already chaired -women and -doc meetings this week, I'm out of chairs
 * slickymaster thinks that Unit193 has nowhere to run
<pleia2> oh, california too!
<Unit193> slickymaster: Watch.
<pleia2> :P
<pleia2> ooh my startubuntu flyers should be here tomorrow
<pleia2> knome: look, someone else printed it first https://twitter.com/Start_Ubuntu/status/432574310981459968/photo/1
<knome> pleia2, retweet?
<knome> meh, maybe not
<knome> it's not clear that it's xubuntu :)
<pleia2> I'm thinking xubuntu blog post when I get my printed materials, talking about the flyer, have picture of mine, picture of that, and links to all the translations ("and you can translate too!")
<knome> works
<knome> and a picture of your cat lying on it?
<pleia2> there's probably no avoiding that
<knome> no, i insist on that
<pleia2> hehe
<GridCube> a cat always works
<knome> Unit193, soooo... would you please finish the xfce4-panel sponsorship process?
<Unit193> knome: I thought I was looking at the docs?
<knome> Unit193, you could look into both :)
<knome> i heard you've prepared the package for panel, so it shouldn't be too much work to finalize the process
<Unit193> >)>
<knome> Unit193, or is that too much to ask?
<Unit193> knome: I did the easy part, next part is perhaps pushing it to bzr somehow, merging it actually...
<Unit193> And, if that's the case I did it wrong.
<knome> Unit193, i'm sure you could get some help for that
<Unit193> Jackson has done a lot of that.  I'm good if I can do a debdiff or something, but I don't think I can do bzr without breaking it.
<knome> i learned the last time debdiffs should be okay if the update doesn't involve binary files...
<Unit193> Not trying to get out of it exactly, just that using that method isn't going to work so awesomely for me. :/
<Unit193> I like the Debian way far, far, far better.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-13
<ochosi> Unit193: i actually think much of it is scriptable
<ochosi> once you've done it once, it's not hard to do it the second time
<sergio-br2> hello to everybody
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<sergio-br2> i did the merge request
<Unit193> knome: You good with https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+packages ?
<Unit193> (xubuntu-docs)
<knome> without actually installing the package, looks good to me
<Unit193> bug 1251332 look good?
<ubottu> bug 1251332 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Use of gksudo in Xubuntu documentation" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251332
<knome> i would prefer a separate bug report (since we're not changing just that), but it's good for me if you don't wish to file a new bug
<Unit193> Hmm, thought we did on the last one, but will try to remember.
<Unit193> We don't already have one for the panel, right?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: oh cool
<knome> unless there is one linked in -t-features, i don't think so
<Unit193> Bummer. :P
<ochosi> not that i know of (panel)
<bluesabre> o.o
<ochosi> what are you looking at, bluesabre ? :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeeees?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: thanks merged (i already reviewed the icons from that branch yesterday ;))
<bluesabre> hey folks :D
<sergio-br2> ok, thanks
<sergio-br2> ochosi, version 0.4 now?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: well, i'll do version 0.4 once we have all 96px folders
<ochosi> i just wanted everything we got to get uploaded into trusty before b1
<sergio-br2> how many weeks for b1?
<ochosi> 2
<ochosi> but we should get the artwork pkg ready asap
<ochosi> since it's going to need a sponsor for uploading, we need all the extra time we can get
<sergio-br2> i'l try to end this places96. But i'm without many time
<ochosi> we can also divide the work if you want
<ochosi> just tell me what you can do until when (approximately)
<ochosi> there aren't even that many folders missing
<ochosi> (trash is less important, so is the bookmarks-icon
<ochosi> so basically we need: recent, remote, drag-accept, publicshare, templates and maybe savedsearch
<ochosi> the rest are optional
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> ochosi, you can take to do folder-drag-accept.svg ?
<sergio-br2> i think the others i can finish, it's just copy and past
<Unit193> knome: When you want the second linked to?
<knome> Unit193, hum?
 * knome runs Unit193 -vv
<ochosi> sergio-br2: ok, let's do it like that
<Unit193> knome: xfce4-panel.
<knome> Unit193, linked to what?
<knome> Unit193, i guess the answer is: as soon as you are ready
<Unit193> Bugged/linked/sponsored/etc.
<knome> ochosi, any reason to hold?
<Unit193> Have someone review?
<Unit193> bluesabre: You up for it?
<knome> Unit193, no, but can ask around
<bluesabre> hm?
<Unit193> Meh, if not then the sponsors review it anyway.
<Unit193> Anywho, /detach
<bluesabre> what?
<knome> Unit193, see, you need to increase verbosity, even bluesabre doesn't understand you :)
<bluesabre> ehhhh!?
<knome> Unit193, have fun meanwhile, and thanks for working on those
<bluesabre> I'm aroundish, but if you need me to review something or package, let me know
 * bluesabre was hoping Corsac had gotten the greeter into debian today
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193 would like you to review the xfce4-panel package he's prepared
<bluesabre> link?
<knome> i don't have it handy, you should poke ochosi 
<knome> but working as a team ++
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<ochosi> no reason to hold
<ochosi> the link i have is this: https://unit193.net/xfce4-panel-4.10.0git-86a1b73.tar.bz2
<ochosi> sergio-br2: ok, i've done folder-drag-accept, lemme know when you've finished yours ;)
<sergio-br2> ok, thanks (fast!)
<ochosi> well, it was a simple one
<sergio-br2> tomorrow i'l try to finish this
<sergio-br2> bye
<Unit193> bluesabre: dget https://unit193.net/xfce/xfce4-panel_4.11.0~0.git20140209.86a1b73-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Unit193> bluesabre: With https://unit193.net/xfce/changelog as a changelog.
<Mirv> knome: hi, just checking if you need bug #1251332 (https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+files/xubuntu-docs_14.04.0.dsc) sponsored or if you'll handle it yourself when you're happy with first 14.04 docs upload? the sponsors are currently subscribed to the bugreport.
<ubottu> bug 1251332 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Use of gksudo in Xubuntu documentation" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251332
<knome> Mirv, would like to get it sponsored :)
<Mirv> knome: ok :) I'll see if I can further it, even though I don't have upload rights myself (except for Qt). my first patch pilot turn :)
<knome> Mirv, cool, thanks :)
<knome> we're in a bit of a pressure this cycle, our own uploaders are more or less MIA
<knome> so we're both working to get more uploaders and doing sponsorships requests
<bluesabre> knome: since we're lacking in uploads, should I go ahead and create packages with the branches we want merged and try to get them uploaded?
<bluesabre> we can deal with putting the code into the branches later possibly
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hello, see the links I gave?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, getting ready to take my wife to work, will review them when I get back in a bit
<Unit193> Great, have what I think may be bug text too.
<knome> bluesabre, yes please, and if you are quick and are able to prepare them today, Mirv could be able to help :)
<Mirv> bluesabre: knome: I've tested and prepared bzr134 of trunk now for upload
<knome> Mirv, cheers
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/3d0SV91ub8uxhSGBOejh ?
<bluesabre> knome: won't be able to do it until tonight
<bluesabre> but I'll make that my priority
<knome> Unit193, wfm
<knome> Unit193, also, see, "looks good"
<knome> Unit193, thanks.
<Unit193> Hmm?
<knome> Unit193, bug 1251332
<ubottu> bug 1251332 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Use of gksudo in Xubuntu documentation" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251332
<Unit193> Ah, yeah.  Saw that.
<bluesabre> Unit193: how do I make pbuilder proceed when it is stupid? http://dpaste.com/1613526/
<Unit193> bluesabre: sudo pbuilder update
<Unit193> (or cheat and put a hook in. >_> )
<bluesabre> that failed, so whats this about a hook?
<knome> hah
<Unit193> Whereever your hookdir is, use Dupdate with  apt-get update  in it, and chmod +x
<Unit193> bluesabre: For trusty I'd presume?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> completely unfamiliar with this part of pbuilder
<bluesabre> I'll have to take a look tonight
<Unit193> Oh, didn't get it?
 * bluesabre doesn't know what he's doing
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<Unit193> knome: Not sure I'll be here for the meeting, but open action items, wouldn't it make more sense to #info so they don't get into the actions list?
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xfce4-panel/snapshot/+merge/206169 so hopefully I didn't do that too wrong, already know I put it in the wrong branch, but that's just a name.
<Unit193> Mirv?
<Mirv> Unit193: looking at bzr diff -r -2 debian | less, it's removing the last Ubuntu update's changes (changelog at minimum should be preserved, even if intentionally reverting the changes otherwise). otherwise debian/ looks good.
<Mirv> Unit193: so maybe fix that, resubmit the proposal against lp:ubuntu/xfce4-panel instead. I set the commit message now in LP too, depending on how the to-be-uploader will like it.
<Mirv> anyhow, I won't have time for that today, so maybe request that also so that it'll get visible at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html for some other patch pilot
<Mirv> since it's a git snapshot, maybe a good idea to test in a PPA as well and get some "Approve" marks on the merge proposal (if possible)?
<Unit193> We've been testing the git snapshots, this just brings in something else we're looking at.
<Unit193> Thanks, missed that upload, merged the other changes.
<Mirv> ok, goodness :) maybe a word on how it has been tested in the description too.
<knome> Unit193, the point is that while they are open, they keep in the actions list. and if they aren't done, we will get to review them every week.
<knome> Unit193, if something has to be postponed for a longer time, espeially if it's release-critical, it should be moved to the blueprints
 * Unit193 wonders why the one in the repo b-deps on gnome-common...
<Unit193> Mirv: Done, thanks.
<knome> slickymaster-job, bluesabre: somebody working on the menulibre testcase?
<Unit193> knome: Set you as reviewer for XPL ACK.
<Unit193> For everyone that tested the git snapshot, might want to leave a comment/review.
<ochosi> yup, already typing...
<knome> ochosi, any reason not to ack technically?
<Unit193> Because I did it and with bzr, so it's goooofed.
<knome> Unit193, that's not what i asked :P
<ochosi> knome: nope
<knome> then went on an approved.
<knome> *and
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> then next we need the latest release of xfce4-indicator-plugin
<ochosi> (and push either a release over that as bugfix or cherrypick the stuff from master that we need)
<knome> Unit193, want to continue your winning streak?
<Unit193> knome: Nope. :P
<ochosi> this one should be easier though, as it's not a git-snapshot ;)
<knome> Unit193, seriously, you've done really well, and we've got a lot of things moving
<knome> of course, you decide if you don't want to do it
<knome> but it would be a shame if we were stuck in the mud again :/
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/14.04.0
<knome> noticed from email notifications.
<knome> that's great
<Unit193> Actually, Debian vcs has most of it: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/goodies/trunk/xfce4-indicator-plugin/debian/changelog?view=markup
<ochosi> does that mean it'll be low-hanging fruit for you? ;)
<Unit193> svn, but otherwise.
<Unit193> Is there a point since we want newer than 2.2.0?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> feature-freeze
<ochosi> we need a version that kinda works, so that we can push fixes even after FF
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/staging/+packages xfce4-panel in there if you want the new one.
<ochosi> woot, ff-gtk3?
<Unit193> No, that's just a test from trunk.
<Unit193> knome: Added FF to calendar.
<Unit193> In case I'm not here, -1 to whiskermenu.
<ochosi> Unit193: any specific reason why? (just curious)
<ochosi> also, what does that mean wrt the proposed panel-layout?
<Unit193> Well, it's fine for those that choose it, but it's more going to the new style that I'm not as fond of and don't really want to go (Gnome, Unity.)  It also seems a bit unbaked in areas, but perhaps that's just my perception of it.  It's not a big objection however, and I'm sure I'll get overridden anyway.
<ochosi> Unit193: mkay, and the panel-layout?
<Unit193> Now isn't it: | Applicationsmenu | Windowlist-plugin | Indicators | Systray | Clock | Actions button  ?
<ochosi> pretty much
<ochosi> i think there's also the workspace-switcher
<Unit193> Right, there is.
<Unit193> Sorting order = None, allow drag and drop basically does timestamps, but lets you move them too.
<ochosi> you want DND in the windo-buttons?
<brainwash> dnd is causes a glitch
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> Well, not saying that.  Just giving info, I like it.
<ochosi> yup, the glitch is a bit annoying, let's not set it to DND by default
<Unit193> Bleh, can't request a review from Ubuntu branches, LP messing up. :/
<slickymaster-job> knome: elfy did say he would do the MenuLibre testcase
<slickymaster-job> but in case he doesn't, I'll do it
<Mirv> knome: Unit193: you possibly noticed already but I managed to have the xubuntu-docs uploaded
<Unit193> Mirv: Yep, thanks muchly!
<Mirv> np
<knome> Mirv, thanks! :)
<qwebirc914663> knome:  did you saw my answer reagrding MenuLibre?
<knome> qwebirc914663, yep.
<qwebirc914663> regarding ^^
<knome> was just asking if anybody was on it
<qwebirc914663> hey, what happened to my nick?!?!?!
<knome> fail! :)
<knome> /nick slickymaster-job
<knome> that should do it
<qwebirc914663> how I miss irssi ;(
<knome> qwebirc914663, tell me about it :)
<lderan> knome & elfy, I've got an autopilot Abiword test which checks to see if it is able to save files. Its not as nice as being able to click on specific buttons but we can check functionality which can be access with keyboard shortcuts \o/
<slickymaster-job> that's great lderan
<pleia2> knome: our slideshow broke
<ochosi> i'll be 10 or 20min late for the meeting, sry
<ochosi> brb
<knome> pleia2, what?
<pleia2> knome: our new plugins+themes got installed, but it broke our slideshow
<knome> aha
<knome> how?
<pleia2> no more slideshow :)
<knome> ...
<knome> i don't understand! :)
<knome> oh!
<pleia2> it's missing!
<knome> i understand!
<pleia2> haha
<knome> you're talking about the website
<knome> not the installer
<pleia2> yes
<knome> that explains some...
<pleia2> sorry :)
<knome> np
<pleia2> You have a flower delivery
<pleia2> oooh, brb
<knome> WOT!
<knome> meh, seems like there are some other problems with the new plugin that works correctly elsewhere
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i will set up the new theme today
<knome> let's see if the problem persist with that
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 19:01:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> so who's here for the meeting, and is somebody willing to chair?
<jjfrv8> o/ can't chair, might not even be able to stay for whole thing
<micahg_work> I'm here for the meeting, but can't chair
<slickymaster-job> o/ for the meeting, not for chair it ;)
<slickymaster-job> s/for/to
<Noskcaj> o/ (but don't know how to chair)
<knome> #topic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<knome> ali12341?
<knome> #nick ali1234
<knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<knome> #nick micahg
<lderan> Hello
<knome> #action Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin 
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to ping elfy re weather plugin
<knome> Noskcaj?
<ali12341> yeah still no movement there
<Noskcaj> it's in precise proposed
<knome> was there an issue with that which elfy wanted to resolve?
<knome> or did he want testing for it?
<Noskcaj> Just testing for that, i think enough is done
<knome> aha
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<knome> micahg_work, that should be done, right?
<ochosi> back
<knome> are people actually here, or should we move the meeting?
<pleia2> am here
<ochosi> yeah, i thought ppl are actually here
<micahg_work> yes
<micahg_work> just not updated in LP yet
<knome> ok, so i'll keep it in the actions
<knome> #action micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application 
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at Noskcaj's MOTU application
<knome> that done?
<pleia2> haven't finished process stuff for website, so I'll need reaction on that
<knome> pleia2, i can't do it yet, since i don't know if have to/can undo the other action
 * knome shrugs
<pleia2> yep, just updating
<knome> #action pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned 
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 starts working on getting the Processes wikipage updated and cleaned
<knome> #action Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs 
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to do merge proposals for "X performs Y" styled listings for the docs
<knome> Unit193, did you do that already, i forgot? :)
<Unit193> Nope.
<knome> ok, carrying on
<knome> you did the other one though, thanks
<knome> #topic Team updates
<lderan> #action lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basix Xubuntu tests
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basix Xubuntu tests
<Unit193> No, been working on it.
<Unit193> #info xubuntu-docs 14.04.0 uploaded
<Unit193> #info git snapshot of xfce4-panel pending upload/review
<knome> \o/
<ochosi> #info light-locker will see a 1.2 release towards the weekend, which brings the feature of timed-locking, bregma will package/upload it
<slickymaster-job> \o/
<knome> #info knome got the new website theme pushed to production, release soon
<micahg_work> knome, I need to finish with the call for votes re MOTU app, hoping to do that tonight
<ochosi> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter got a 1.8 release and is waiting to be packaged/uploaded
<knome> micahg_work, okay
<slickymaster-job> #info slickymaster finished the Xfdesktop documentation in Xubuntu docs
<ochosi> #info our gtk-themes got releases in git, shimmer-themes is ready to updated for b1
<lderan> #info lderan has got his  meetingology bot changes now live, more to follow soon
<Noskcaj> #info xkb-plugin 0.7.0 now in trusty, might need testing
<knome> lderan, nice work, btw
<lderan> knome, thanks :)
<knome> #action Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to be in touch with elfy on xkb-plugin testing
<knome> we were able to bump the docs blueprint nicely today :)
<knome> my head is blank for anything else, let's move on
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info Feature Freeze in one week
<knome> and i guess that's it
<ochosi> we still need the xfce4-indicator-plugin updated
<Unit193> CC checkin
<pleia2> then beta 1 a week after
<knome> please get stuff into the sponsorship queue so we can get uploads in and avoid exceptions
<ochosi> just to keep that on our radar
<knome> Unit193, pleia2: can #info those?
<lderan> and im working on the lightlocker settings to be finished before then 
<pleia2> #action Beta 1 on Feb 27
<meetingology> ACTION: Beta 1 on Feb 27
<pleia2> oops!
<pleia2> #undo
<pleia2> knome: can you undo? :)
<micahg_work> seriously?
<micahg_work> sigh
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<pleia2> #info Beta 1 on Feb 27
<ochosi> #info lderan is working on a settings UI for light-locker to be finished before FF
<Unit193> #info CC check-in at the meeting on the 20th.
<knome> since we are a week to FF, you can be in touch with me if you need to land something before that
<knome> and feel free to pester multiple times, i will forget things
<micahg_work> same goes for me
<lderan> will do
<knome> micahg_work, WILL DO :)
<pleia2> hah
<ochosi> micahg_work: i think what we need most is xubuntu-default-settings and seed-update, those things are all prepared as MR afaik
<knome> micahg_work, like, the merge requests could be great to be done
<micahg_work> ok
<knome> ochosi, can you double-check with the -t-features blueprint if we have done all the seed changes (that are possible at the moment)
<Unit193> xfce4-panel is in sponsors queue.
<knome> Unit193, that's good
<Unit193> You already knew.
<knome> nice progress in the last few days, let's keep the momentum up
<knome> i did, just wanted to tell you again it's good ;)
<knome> let's move on
<knome> #topic Agenda
<knome> #subtopic Vote on the new panel layout @ Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<knome> o, behold!
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<knome> TL;DR (in our case "too lazy, didn't read"):
<knome> 1) switch to one panel only, on the top of the screen
<knome> 2) panel layout: | Whiskermenu | Windowlist-plugin | Systray | Indicators | Clock | 
<ochosi> (just to mention that, the settings for the plugins aren't written in stone, but i've put them down anyway)
<knome> my gut feeling is,
<knome> 1) vote for dropping to one panel
<knome> 2) vote for the generic panel layout (see next item)
<brainwash> ochosi: no workspace switcher?
<knome> 3) vote for whiskermenu/appmenu as the first item
<knome> brainwash, this. is. a. time. too. late. for. comments.
<knome> this has been around for ages
<knome> and ochosi has been open for feedback
<brainwash> just want to make it's not a mistake
<brainwash> make usre
<ochosi> knome: is this a community or a -team vote?
<knome> -team
<knome> well, we can make the -team vote which one it is
<Noskcaj> I vote whiskermenu and drop the bottom panel
<knome> but i'm thinking -team
<ochosi> mhm, fine with that
<knome> anybody disagree with that?
<lderan> nope
<jjfrv8> nope
<knome> ok, great
<slickymaster-job> nope
<knome> #vote OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
<meetingology> Please vote on: OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<knome> and +1 is drop, -1 is keep
<jjfrv8> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
<knome> (to be clear as possible)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<slickymaster-job> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
<lderan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lderan
<knome> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<Noskcaj> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
<GridCube> mmm
<Unit193> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
<GridCube> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: OK to drop the bottom panel? Team members can vote (you know who you are)
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> dropping the bottom menu.
<ochosi> bottom menu?
<ochosi> ah
<knome> er, bottom panel
<ochosi> ;)
<lderan> :P
<micahg_work> I missed that...I guess that's fine, though docks seem to be liked in genral
<micahg_work> *general
<knome> micahg_work, wouldn't have changed the outcome, so i thought "move ahead"
<pleia2> I always turn it off :\
<lderan> aye same here
<ochosi> micahg_work: yeah, but it's not a real dock, just a launcher-panel (i've also heard complaints about that confusing ppl)
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah
<micahg_work> oh, right
<knome> #vote Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<slickymaster-job> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
<jjfrv8> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
<lderan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lderan
<Noskcaj> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<micahg_work> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg_work
<Unit193> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve the generic panel layout (whiskermenu vs. appmenu to be voted on later). -team can vote
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ochosi> cool, thanks for your support
<knome> #vote Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Please vote on: Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from knome
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<jjfrv8> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
<pleia2> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
<slickymaster-job> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from slickymaster-job
<knome> i have a +1 proxy vote from skellat.
<micahg_work> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from micahg_work
<micahg_work> I've never seen whiskermenu
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=whiskermenu.png
<skellat_ghost> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat_ghost
<knome> :)
<pleia2> hehe
<ochosi> nice ghosting trick :)
<lderan> :P huzzah for voting ghosts
<knome> do others want to vote?
<lderan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lderan
<micahg_work> knome, that png doesn't explain anything, in fact, it tempts me to - 1
<knome> micahg_work, feel free to :)
<knome> but feel free not to...
<ochosi> ok, so there's seemingly more discussion necessary for whisker-menu (is what i take away)
<knome> who's missing
<micahg_work> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from micahg_work
<ochosi> bluesabre is not here now
<slickymaster-job> GridCube is
<ochosi> not sure what he'd vote
<knome> Noskcaj, GridCube 
<knome> ochosi, from the people who are "around"
<ochosi> ok
<GridCube> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
<Noskcaj> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Whiskermenu (+1) or application menu (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:4 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Unit193> Boo.
<knome> so,
<GridCube> booo
<knome> we have a tricky situation here
<slickymaster-job> lol
<knome> i think this really needs more discussion at least
<knome> ochosi, would you be happy with postponing the inclusion to T+1?
<knome> ochosi, or do you still want to push the cause, and try to get people convinced this cycle?
<ochosi> we can have a discussion with the 4 -1s after the meeting
<Unit193> ...In the back alley.
<pleia2> oh dear :)
<ochosi> i'm not sure going for "no" is a cool decision on a 6/4 pro vote
<knome> those who -1'd, are you sure you won't change your mind?
<Unit193> Pretty darn.
<knome> i'm pretty sure, and i don't think a single discussion (even in the back alley) makes me convinved
<slickymaster-job> yeah
<Unit193> Yep, less proven and will be fun to support for 3 years.
<knome> ochosi, what kind of "more discussion" are you looking at?
<Unit193> s/will/could/
<ochosi> just wanting to make sure ppl are thinking what is good for "all our users" instead of simply expressing personal preference
<ochosi> knome: ^
<knome> ochosi, are there known drawbacks with whiskermenu, or is it "as safe/stable" to use it as the apps menu?
<ochosi> i don't know of any drawbacks
<ochosi> i've been using it for months now
<knome> my argument for the app menu is that it is conservative as is our desktop
<Noskcaj> One of the bigger advantages of whiskermenu is it will be more familiar for people coming from windows
<Unit193> Ehh.
<knome> whiskermenu seems to represent the "new" windows versions more
<slickymaster-job> and more aesthetically appealing
<knome> which some people like, and others don't
<ochosi> frankly, i like the search-function
<Unit193> slickymaster-job: It seemed pretty clunky to me.
<Noskcaj> yeah, search helps a lot
<knome> for my taste, the whiskermenu is pretty complex/clunky as well
<jjfrv8> +1
<slickymaster-job> I meant the appmenu Unit193 
<Unit193> Ah, right, yes.
<ochosi> aesthetics is a bit subjective, but yeah
<knome> ochosi, are we kind of duplicating the appfinder feature here?
<ochosi> knome: no, i'd say we're integrating it into the menu
<slickymaster-job> well, people tent to 'buy' with eyes first ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, so duplicating, since we have it installed as well
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: yeah, but some will like it more visually, some will like it less...
<Noskcaj> It took me 6 months to realise we have an appfinder, and i've never used it. I think that's a fairly common use case
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: this is the main reason we don't vote on what i do with the theme generally
<ochosi> knome: we could get rid of appfinder with whiskermenu
<slickymaster-job> agree with ochosi, just saying
<brainwash> whiskermenu doesn't have a command history like appfinder has
<knome> ochosi, we weren't voting on that though
<Unit193> ochosi: No, because xfrun is appfinder.
<ochosi> yup, true, and it doesn't launch apps
<ochosi> err, i mean commandlines
<brainwash> so it does not duplicate
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> it does.
<knome> appfinder just does more.
<ochosi> well, but then the menu also duplicates appfinder
<knome> whiskermenu duplicates some of the functionality
<ochosi> the traditional one i mean
<ochosi> "it launches apps"
<knome> sure, but less than whiskermenu
<ochosi> seriously...
<knome> i'm not arguing/creating a fight here
<knome> i'm just pointing out the facts
<ochosi> yeah, but then also point out that the traditional appmenu "opens apps"
<knome> ochosi, is whiskermenu in the repositories already?
<ochosi> it's not really a pro/con imo
<ochosi> i think it is, yeah
<ochosi> lemme check to be sure
<knome> ochosi, launchers open apps as well.
<ochosi> yeah :)
<knome> ochosi, so does the terminal emulator
<ochosi> yes, whiskermenu is already there
<ochosi> so we can postpone this also
<ochosi> because it'd be affected by UI freeze, or not?
<knome> but that's not the point. the point is that the features which whiskermenu brings over the appmenu are basically duplicating more of appfinder
<ochosi> (just not to drag the meeting along too much)
<knome> dragging is good if discussion happens
<knome> or not good, but fair
<ochosi> yeah, but that does sound like you're using that as an argument, it extends the menu with a function of appfinder
<knome> switching to use whiskermenu would theoretically need a UI freeze exception
<knome> ochosi, no, i just wanted to bring that up since i kind of only now understood it
<knome> ochosi, one more question...
<knome> ochosi, will you be the liaison for contacting the whiskermenu developer if problems arise and try your best to get them fixed?
<knome> (if we decide to use whiskermenu)
<ochosi> knome: i already did, and he was hanging out in this channel also a while ago
<Unit193> (I think they already did.)
<knome> okay,
<ochosi> let's say that we at least install whiskermenu by default
<knome> since whiskermenu is in the repositories, we have a liaison and a good contact with the developer, and the vote ended 6-4, let's use it on the default panel
<ochosi> then ppl have the choice at hand with a click on the panel
<knome> #agreed Panel layout changes: the bottom panel will be dropped, the top panel will have a new layout with Whiskermenu
<knome> #action xubuntu-team to generally discuss about whiskermenu after B1
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to generally discuss about whiskermenu after B1
<knome> Unit193, i'm sorry. :)
<knome> anybody want a last comment?
<lderan> nope
<ochosi> if not, i'd like to quickly chat about gthumb
<knome> hah, no famous last words
<knome> Unit193, not even "I'M OUT"?
<knome> ochosi, about whiskermenu :P
<knome> #subtopic Discuss the need for Quality Assurance 
<Unit193> knome: Hrm, good plan, I want coffee.
<Unit193> :P
<knome> elfy is not around, but:
<knome> he was concerned how QA is doing
<knome> my research:
 * genii hears the call, and runs in with a large mug of strong coffee for Unit193, runs out again
<knome> looking at the packages tracker, the xubuntu desktop testcases have a lot more tests ran than lubuntu, or even ubuntu core
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> that's most probably due to the calls on the mailing list
<ochosi> sweet, everyone wants to have a genii  (and three wishes)
<knome> when it comes to alpha...
<pleia2> I need to run, but I think I can pitch in a bit more about spreading some of the calls for testing to social media
<Noskcaj> I'm not sure it's fair to compare to lubuntu, since they are missing a QA lead, and for much of the time, a dev lead
<ochosi> knome: i agree, QA is generally doing well imo
<knome> it's always like that
<pleia2> and I blogged about testing today, using Xubuntu iso as an example, so yay :)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: No, they have a "dev lead"
<knome> but it's true we should bump up the testing for betas
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Yes, but gilir has very little time. I will now stop talking
<knome> Noskcaj, is it fair to compare ubuntu core, who have a paid QA team leader?
<Noskcaj> of course
<knome> yep.
<Noskcaj> yay for us
<Unit193> Little time doesn't mean he doesn't exist, in that case we don't either. :P
<knome> basically, i think we're doing good
 * slickymaster-job also thinks so
<knome> i hope that developers and other technical people will have more time to look at various bugs after the FF, when all the "creating" work should have been done
<Unit193> Well, tests are still lacking, and I've not done as much testing as elfy for sure or even pleia2. :/
<knome> and when we should focus on fixing bugs
<knome> i don't think i've reported a single test result this cycle for milestones
<knome> iirc, i've reported a few against dailies
<knome> i will start doing tests with the betas though.
<knome> and i encourage others to do the same
<knome> and yeah, as pleia2 said, we should do some social media calls
<knome> (is already a work item in the blueprint)
<slickymaster-job> knome: and also for packages testing
<Unit193> Although, that may not answer the question.  Wasn't the question more of if we needed it than if we were doing good with it?
<knome> well, i'm coming to it
<knome> yes, i think we need it
<slickymaster-job> there hasn't been many doing those
<knome> i thought "wow" when i looked at the packages tracker
<knome> so many bugs!
<knome> but that's only a good sign, right? at least we know about the nasty ones...
<knome> and yeah, we still need QA
<slickymaster-job> yes, but it's just a few groups of people doing them
<knome> slickymaster-job, that's unfortunate of course
<knome> slickymaster-job, but it's more for us than the ubuntu core
<knome> thousands of people use every xubuntu release
<slickymaster-job> definitely 
<knome> do we really want to drop QA tasks?
<slickymaster-job> no
 * ochosi has to leave in about 10mins
<slickymaster-job> IMO it's a valuable asset 
<knome> does anybody have an argument for not having QA?
<Unit193> Thu Feb 13 20:00:25 UTC 2014
<Unit193> Only thought is that there's an aweful lot of package tests.
<knome> ochosi, will push this meeting to the end before that.
<knome> Unit193, that's why they are ran in cadence
<knome> Unit193, and we do have an awful lot of packages..
<knome> maybe we can do with less testing with non-LTS releases
<knome> (for packages, and generally too)
<slickymaster-job> Unit193: that also reflects the fact that QA team was worked a lot making them
<slickymaster-job> s/was/has
<knome> but yeah, apparently nobody thinks we should stop doing QA tasks
<knome> hooray for elfy
<lderan> yay
<slickymaster-job> \o/
<knome> and all the strength in figthing windmills :)
<Unit193> Unless he's the one that has to run it all. :P
<knome> Unit193, he's not
<knome> #subtopic Discuss dropping gthumb from the seed
<knome> does anybody want a comment?
<knome> or should we simply vote?
<ochosi> well gthumb's obvious problem  now in xubuntu is the gtkheaderbar
<Unit193> First, does anyone object to it being dropped?
<ochosi> so we end up with duplicate window-borders/controls
<ochosi> i submitted a bugreport about that upstream, but no comments there yet
<knome> the other argument is that we have ristretto as well
<ochosi> and i'm doubtful that we can resolve this (even if fixed upstream) before release
<knome> Unit193's question, anybody?
<Unit193> So seems like a simple vote would outcome in it being dropped.
<knome> #vote Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Please vote on: Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<slickymaster-job> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster-job
<Unit193> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
<jjfrv8> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
<lderan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from lderan
<Noskcaj> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Noskcaj
 * slickymaster-job prefers Ristretto over gThumb
<Noskcaj> Headerbar was the big change for 3.3, we could patch it out
<knome> i'm not sure if i have a proxy vote or not from skellat, but if yes, that would be +1
<Unit193> Only thing, gthumb has a simple crop.
<Noskcaj> But i've never seen the point of use having gthumb
<knome> quote: Relative to the removal of gthumb from the seed, I am okay with its removal.
<knome> but not any more clear indication on vote either way.
<knome> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> others want to vote?
<Noskcaj> My only issue with the drop is you have to try to understand gimp to do any image editing. Why not have something lighter/easier to use
 * Unit193 already voted.
<knome> Noskcaj, because there isn't anything easier to use, we've explored that option.
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> Noskcaj, feel free to propose something for T+1
<knome> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Drop gthumb (+1) or keep (-1)? -team can vote
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * Unit193 misses xnview.
<knome> #subtopic Start the discussion on the technical review for the Strategy Document 
<knome> postponing
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> do people want to move it out from the FF day?
<ochosi> sry, gotta go...
<ochosi> :/
<knome> maybe tue/wed to have a day or two to prepare things?
<knome> ochosi, we're closing it up, see you ;)
<ochosi> seey'all
<lderan> cheerio ochosi 
<knome> #action knome to email the -devel list on scheduling the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to email the -devel list on scheduling the next meeting
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 13 20:09:27 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.moin.txt
<knome> thanks, and i'm off too.
<slickymaster-job> thanks knome 
<lderan> cheerio :P
<slickymaster-job> I'm off too ->
<brainwash> meh, no answer regarding the removal of the panel workspace-switcher :(
<knome> brainwash, it's absence from the proposed layout is not a mistake
<knome> *its
<Unit193> No, but "why?" was his question.
<knome> no...
<knome> 21:24  brainwash: just want to make it's not a mistake
<knome> lderan, eh :D
<knome> lderan, the bot output lacks the "Votes" header
<knome> wait, no
<knome> it's just in the wrong place (after the vote results)
<brainwash> knome: ok, weird change, but I can accept it
<knome> lderan, actually, the vote output code is generally a bit off
<knome> malformed links as well
<knome> lderan, fixed in the wikipage, look in the source moin output at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-02-13-19.01.moin.txt
<brainwash> Unit193: do we move the xfwm4 monitor root pixmap stuff to T+1?
<knome> lderan, [xubuntu-qa] Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing: INPROGRESS
<knome> lderan, is that basically done, or...?
<Unit193> brainwash: Not sure if the quirks I'm having are xfwm/xfdesktop or something else.  Has there even been much testing of it?
<brainwash> Unit193: not much testing yet, because no one knows about it
<brainwash> and it's not part of the trusty roadmap
<brainwash> it's just a small tweak anyway, not necessary, but it improves the desktop experience
<Unit193> Looks like https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce/+packages has everything to test it on Trusty, and everything except the greeter on Saucy.
<brainwash> it would great, if you could enable/disable it at runtime
<Unit193> I'm so very much the wrong person to ask about that.
<brainwash> I'm not an expert too
<brainwash> so unless we get more test results it won't land in trusty
<Unit193> Well, sadly my most looked after feature of xfwm4 won't land.
<Unit193> brainwash: Actually, you tried the new tabwin stuff?
<brainwash> new?
<brainwash> or is tabwin generally considered to be "new"
<Unit193> Well, new in that it isn't years old.
<Unit193> tail -f .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log  then alt+tab to something.
<Unit193> xfwm4-Message: (nil)
<brainwash> I'm not that exited about tabwin, usually I avoid using the mouse
<Unit193> I don't use the mouse in it either, just different theme/settings you can use.
<brainwash> and what about the zoom feature?
<brainwash> this one is nice, but still not documented or?
<Unit193> That doesn't need to be enabled, isn't it already in?
<brainwash> yea, but somewhat hidden
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> and the patch to hide the window controls for new gtk3 apps would be awesome
<Unit193> Bah, no accessibility area in the xubuntu docs.
<brainwash> so business as usual, some things will get moved to +1
<Unit193> Well try not to ship too many patches.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.3-1ubuntu3 nice, at least we got that patch.
<brainwash> wow, that was fast
<brainwash> Unit193: your xfdesktop ppa package is kinda old, want to update it? http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/log/
<Unit193> Well, it's actually a released version, do you want a new version?
<brainwash> it makes testing xfdesktop easier for people
<brainwash> in case anyone actually tests it
<brainwash> I can point them to your ppa
<knome> pleia2, i've found the problem with the slideshow. will poke IS later, but for now, drop in a static placeholder image
<brainwash> but maybe there will be a new release soon after all these fixes
<Unit193> brainwash: Looking into getting xfce4-indicator-plugin into trsuty now.
<brainwash> finally :)
<brainwash> will it be ready for b1?
<Unit193> I'm not an uploader, can't know.
<knome> can somebody look at xubuntu.org to see any obvious theming mistakes?
<knome> (and please make sure you don't look at cache)
<Unit193> Well, that's...
<Noskcaj> Maybe that the menu icon is hidden in the screenshot shown
<knome> Unit193, what is?
<Unit193> The white seems to clash with the other white, and lack of navigation.
<Unit193> (Yes, I see the bottom.)
<knome> what white?
<knome> though your comments are ignored.
<knome> there was the time for those
<knome> now i was just wondering if there was something specific on the site that needed fixing
<knome> like an image appearing weirdly, or an old style for a blockquote
<Unit193> Hah, "you're ignored" :D
<knome> in this subject.
<knome> and not technically ignored, just dismissed
<ochosi> is there anything that would be off on xubuntu.org?
<ochosi> seems fine here
<Unit193> Out of turn and all. :D
<Unit193> http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/plugins/srv/wordpress3-farm/wordpress-plugins/photoslider/slider.js and http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/plugins/srv/wordpress3-farm/wordpress-plugins/photoslider/defaults.css so those might be missing?
<ochosi> knome: where are those nice colored headers that you showed off before?
<pleia2> knome: ok, thanks for fixing :)
<knome> Unit193, yes... as i've said, i've found the problem with the slideshow
<knome> Unit193, actually, the problem is not missing file, the problem is canonical's weird configuration, which is why those links point to wrong locations...
<ochosi> xnox: since you were so extremely fast to do the xubuntu-community-artwork pkg, this would be another one (with actually higher priority, but it wasn't ready before): https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xfce4-panel/snapshot/+merge/206173
<brainwash> Unit193: so we got the xfce4-panel git snapshot, should I request to include the pending fix for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658 on launchpad?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.xfce.org: timed out (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658&ctype=xml)
<Unit193> brainwash: It's not in yet, and is that tested enough?
<brainwash> tested by me
<brainwash> short term test
<brainwash> so we can add the patch later
<ochosi> yup, it's bugfix
<Unit193> Well, upstream git snapshot from HEAD is kind of bad as-is for an LTS, patches from bugzilla on top of that don't sound good (chances lower for getting in?)
<ochosi> i suppose this will be merged into master "sometime soon"
<ochosi> then it'd just be an update of the snapshot ;)
<brainwash> it will get merged 100%
<Unit193> brainwash: Not that I don't agree, this is something needed.
<ochosi> brainwash: anyway, let's focus on the stuff that needs to get done *now*
<Unit193> That in theory could be one of them...
<brainwash> it was just thinking that we should do everything now
<brainwash> later it will become awful hard to get the stuff in
<ochosi> hey andrzejr 
<Unit193> Was andrzejr going to do another release of xfce4-indicator-plugin soon?  Or after FF?
<ochosi> Unit193: i think that depends on the next release of the panel...
<ochosi> at least that's what i remember
<Unit193> indicator-dialog.c:449:28: warning: 'GtkStock' is deprecated [-Wdeprecated-declarations] GTK_STOCK_CLEAR, NULL, NULL,
<Unit193> ochosi: Makes sense to me.
<ochosi> crap, welcome to gtk3.10
<ochosi> i guess we could patch that
<ochosi> Unit193: is that the only warning?
<Unit193> It's a warning?  Who cares? :P
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> (but still, things'll get more annoying with all the things gtk3 is deprecating)
<brainwash> ochosi: we also need a new release of xfdesktop, right? 4.11.3
<ochosi> brainwash: depends, if there are features, then that should be moved ahead asap also
<Unit193> debian/patches/migrate-xfcerc-xfconf.patch <--- Still need that?
<ochosi> Unit193: also in the indicator-plugin?
<Unit193> Yes.
<ochosi> i think 12.04 was already using xfconf
<ochosi> but let me check...
<brainwash> ochosi: mainly the new grid layout, improved xfce4-settings compatibility, icon scaling
<Unit193> 0.5.0, yes, that's why I think not.
<ochosi> brainwash: those are improvements we can sell as bugfix i think
<brainwash> yes :)
<ochosi> Unit193: if precise really has 0.5 and not 0.4 you can drop the patch
<ochosi> but anyway, drop it
<ochosi> cause even though 0.4 was still using the rc file, i'm pretty sure the options changed since then..
<Unit193> Crap, nope.
<ochosi> so migrating old deprecated settings won't help
<Unit193> Has 4.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but still, migrating those settings might not be worth it
<ochosi> most of them are new now anyway
<ochosi> it's the hide/show list to the maximum
<Unit193> I'm good with that, because I don't want to have to re-work it. :P
<ochosi> (back then, e.g. -messages didn't work anyway..)
<Unit193> knome: Adding you again as XPL ack, k?
<Unit193> ochosi: Want on too? :P
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> one more comment can't hurt
<knome> Unit193, sure.
<Unit193> You have mail.
<knome> done
<Unit193> Danke.
<Unit193> Also, so am I. \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: done
<GridCube> sorry for not being active on today's meeting, i was at that hour at work because i was explaining somethings to my coworkers of the next shift
<ochosi> knome: i'll do another MR for the seed for whiskermenu and the new community-artwork package, i'll also remove gthumb at the same time
<knome> thanks
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html looks good, by the way
<knome> proves we have actually done something
<Unit193> We have? ;)
<knome> all of us, Unit193 included
<ochosi> a lot less postponed that i'd have expected :)
<knome> so far
<knome> my bet is we end up with ~10 postponed items
<knome> (=~ 10%)
<ochosi> sounds fair
<ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether we should go forward with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1004400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004400 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default double click time is too short" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, we can apply that patch if you think it's worth it, and since you are working on it anyway
<ochosi> dunno, personally i don't mind so much
<ochosi> but since it's an upstream change, i'm ok to follow 
<knome> sure, it's not a big deal
<ochosi> hope you're ok that i asked for your review on the MR as well...
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<ochosi> just so that "whoever" merges that doesn't have the feeling they have to look at it too closely
<knome> done
<ochosi> ty
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-14
<knome> jjfrv8, hey :)
<jjfrv8> knome, oops, I picked some nits with it
<knome> reviewing clash
<knome> hehe, np
<knome> i'm actually working on it now
<knome> i can do the proposed changes while i'm on it
<jjfrv8> ok
<knome> jjfrv8, Unit193: merged in 137.
<knome> feel free to re-review
<Unit193> knome: STOP MERGING, I'M WORKING ON STUFF!
<Unit193> :P
<knome> don't do merge requests then :P
<Unit193> OK. :----D
<knome> nooo
<knome> i take that back
<knome> you should do more of them ;)
<Unit193> knome: Did you fix it first?
<jjfrv8> knome, glad you went with the 3rd person singular, cause I realized the heading says "What it does"
<knome> Unit193, yeah, i merged locally, then edited...
<knome> and pushed
<knome> jjfrv8, was a gut feeling to do that, didn't even notice the heading ;)
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Sorry, my brain hardly works.  Prepare for seizures for the next merge. :P
<jjfrv8> I didn't at first either
<knome> Unit193, you need to report seizures to the other "doc"
<knome> ha! see what i did there!
<jjfrv8> hehe
<Unit193> Yep, good one.
<Unit193> knome: Patch pilot looking at my uploads now.
 * knome sends Unit193 to the gumby brain specialist
<knome> Unit193, oooo, exciting :)
 * Unit193 is working on xyz still.
<knome> humm, stretching doesn't do good
<knome> only makes muscles twitch
<knome> maybe i should go to bed :P
<knome> before i go...
<knome> jjfrv8, did you see bluesabre's contributions to the menulibre docs? ;)
<jjfrv8> affirmative
<knome> nice of him
<jjfrv8> ja
<Unit193> ...What's the friendly name of catfish?
<knome> fitcash
<jjfrv8> he said he's got to make some changes this weekend to add launchers to directories
<knome> okay
<knome> oh btw,
<knome> we have unblocked several things now with deciding on the panel layout
<knome> well, some of it is still blocked until we have it set up
<knome> but good progress
<jjfrv8> yuo
<jjfrv8> yup
<jjfrv8> maybe I should go to be too
<jjfrv8> yikes! *bed
<knome> already? am i really up that late?
<jjfrv8> way later than here for sure
<knome> heh :)
<knome> almost 5am
<knome> yeah, maybe i should go to bed and think about more stuff tomorrow
<knome> nighty!
<jjfrv8> cya
<Unit193> Party time. \o/
<Unit193> knome: That is to say, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.2.0-0ubuntu1 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/4.11.0~0.git20140209.86a1b73-0ubuntu1
<Mirv> Unit193: nice! thanks to Luke :)
<Unit193> Mirv: Yep, quite so.
<Unit193> Hello.
<elfy> knome: I'll remove gthumb from package tracker 
<elfy> knome: also - I've not published that article, not sure when you want to do that, but I don't want it to be hanging around for ages
<ochosi> elfy: so panel and indicators are finally there, ready for testing? ;)
<Unit193> CD will still be shipping with -sound-gtk2 and -application-gtk2
<ochosi> true, that will take a little longer
<ochosi> but for b1, things should be in place
<Unit193> xubuntu-docs: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/xubuntu-docs/pedantic_sync_changelog_from_archive/+merge/206150
<elfy> ochosi: not sure tbh what we can test re indicators but panel will mean a rejig of the existing test to remove references to bottom panel and any of the things we populate panel with is all
<ochosi> elfy: the panel-changes haven't been pushed yet
<ochosi> only the xfce4-panel that supports gtk3 indicators
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<knome> elfy, re: article, oh duh, good reminder :)
<knome> elfy, we should get it out now as we have the new website stuff pushed!
<pmjdebruijn> hey guys
<ochosi> hey pmjdebruijn 
<pmjdebruijn> just curious
<pmjdebruijn> xfwm4 with composition briefly blanks the screen... does anybody know if this has been resolved in newer xfwm in trusty?
 * pmjdebruijn knows it's not particularly critical and is only cosmetic, but I'm curious
 * pmjdebruijn admits to not having tested the daily live isos yet
<brainwash_> pmjdebruijn: on session start?
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<brainwash_> Unit193 also mentioned this issue
<pmjdebruijn> it's very brief
<pmjdebruijn> doesn't this happen for everybody?
<pmjdebruijn> where compositing is on?
<brainwash_> it is related to compositing, but it does not happen here
<ochosi> brainwash_: so you think it's not the root-pixmap transition bug?
<brainwash_> I suspect xfdesktop
<brainwash_> being the culprit
<brainwash_> try to load a session with xfdesktop
<brainwash_> without
<pmjdebruijn> how do I do that?
<brainwash_> settings manager > session and startup > session
<brainwash_> ochosi: but what would cause the the black flicker? xfwm4 does not copy the root pixmap as of now and should show a grey flicker
<brainwash_> xfdesktop 4.11 does some transparency magic and could be the culprit
<ochosi> bbiab, lunchtime
<pmjdebruijn> I'll check tonigh
<knome> elfy, did you review my changes to the article already?
<knome> -team, also please review http://xubuntu.org/?p=2078&preview=true
<elfy> knome: yep - did it a few days ago, just changed the dozen to 20 ish
<GridCube> knome, it looks pretty well, though a bit desesperated
<GridCube> maybe removing the italics on the words can change that?
<elfy> GridCube: if you don't think that only getting ~20 people testing things is desperate - bearing in mind that 30% ish of those only appear once and that in fact we get real reports from about 10 people at most
<brainwash_> knome: if I middle click a menu entry in the sidebar, the hover effect (underline) won't disappear
<elfy> then I don't know what is - and am obviously looking at it the wrong way - and should just not bother like other flavours appear to do
<GridCube> elfy, yes, i kow, and im sorry i dont contribute more myself, but the title and the whole objective of the text is to call for more reporters, there is no real need of extra emphasis
 * GridCube opinions
<ochosi> elfy: i like it, but some of the italics could go
<slickymaster-job> knome: http://xubuntu.org/?p=2078&preview=true -> Page Not Found (I'm sorry, but you're looking for something that is not here.)
<GridCube> slickymaster-job, xubuntu.org/login then try the link
<slickymaster-job> hey GridCube 
 * slickymaster-job didn't knew about that and thanks GridCube for the hint
 * GridCube tips hat
 * slickymaster-job agrees on all counts with everthing in http://xubuntu.org/?p=2078&preview=true
<jjfrv8> knome, elfy, I proposed a few grammar edits. I've never used WP before so don't know if I did it right.
<knome> brainwash_, that's because the link still has the focus.
<knome> jjfrv8, i would imagine it's just "done" without further notification (which is fine)
<knome> jjfrv8, basically the "review" only refers to somebody else has to publish it
<knome> jjfrv8, not review in the same way as in merge proposals :)
<knome> jjfrv8, you are keeping the edit lock. areyou still actually editing the post, or can i overtake?
<knome> taking over.
<knome> i'm publishing
<knome> done, and tweeted
<knome> pleia2, ping
<jjfrv8> knome, sorry, rookie mistake.
<elfy> knome: thanks :)
<slickymaster-job> hey elfy 
<elfy> slickymaster-job: hi
<slickymaster-job> elfy: are still planning on writing the MenuLibre testcase?
<slickymaster-job> you ^^
<elfy> that or not - still waiting on being able to actually do anything with it
<slickymaster-job> did you saw http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<elfy> no - last time I looked at that it was all lorem ipsum
<elfy> book marked it 
<elfy> thanks slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> well, it's a complete new ball game now
<elfy> slickymaster-job: as in - now it's not lorem ipsum :)
<elfy> hi DanChapman 
<DanChapman> elfy hey there :-) how are you?
<elfy> good thanks
<slickymaster-job> hey DanChapman 
<slickymaster-job> if you don't fell like writing it, ping me elfy 
<elfy> slickymaster-job: :)
<elfy> ochosi: not being at all arty over here - I wonder why the 'username' font size in the login box is so big compared to everything else
<pleia2> knome: g+ed
<knome> ta ta
<ochosi> elfy: to stress what's important
<knome> bbl
<elfy> ochosi: that's fine, was just saying is all :)
<jonzen> not sure i am in the right place  installed 14.04 alpha2 and had a problem with the desktop   wbar loads before the wallpaper every time and has the black box around it   reloading wbar fixes 
<ali12341> what's wbar?
<jonzen> dock
<ali12341> sounds like wbar uses a bad method of rendering a shadow
<ali12341> the slow loading wallpaper is a known bug
<jonzen> ahhh  ty  
<ochosi> some ppl are easily satisfied
<ochosi> "this is a known bug" -> "ah ok" -> disconnect
<ochosi> :D
<andrzejr> ochosi, hi
<ochosi> hey andrzejr 
<Unit193> Hello.
<andrzejr> hi Unit193
<andrzejr> do you still want me to release the indicator plugin?
<ochosi> andrzejr: 1) there's currently a bug in the plugin when setting the panel to opaque (that one wasn't fixed by eric_the_idiot's patch before)
<andrzejr> (given that the required panel is still in git master)
<ochosi> and 2), we've uploaded 2.2.0 to ubuntu to have something there in time...
<Unit193> I think waiting as long as you can for the panel is good.
<ochosi> yup, in general it's good
<andrzejr> ochosi, a bug in the plugin or a bug in the panel?
<ochosi> it's a bug in the panel
<ochosi> but iirc you have push-rights there.
<andrzejr> is there a patch?
<ochosi> so in case you can test/confirm it, that'd be nice
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10658
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10658 in Panel "GTK3 indicator area background turns transparent/black occasionally" [Normal,New]
<andrzejr> the problem with testing is that I have never seen the problem myself
<ochosi> strange, should be easy to reproduce
<ochosi> at least with gtk3.10
<andrzejr> well, that's probably the reason (3.8 here)
<ochosi> hmm, yeah
<ochosi> strange that
<ochosi> but still, the patch shouldn't do any harm in gtk3.8
<ochosi> at least that would be nice to test
<Unit193> ochosi: You have mail.
<andrzejr> have you seen NSchermer lately?
<ochosi> andrzejr: no, not in the last two weeks
<ochosi> before that he said he's "about to merge the xfwm tabwin branch" :)
<ochosi> but that never happened, he's really busy with RL afaik
<andrzejr> ochosi, the patch looks good, pushed.
<ochosi> andrzejr: thanks!
<ochosi> we'll have to update our git-snapshot a bit later with that fix i guess :]
<ochosi> (or hopefully with a release...)
<ochosi> i presume you're not doing releases of xfce components (yet)?
<andrzejr> ochosi, technically I can (as anyone with a commit access) but only the "main" maintainer is supposed to do it.
<ochosi> andrzejr: i'm just wondering whether you'd be willing to do it and specifically to offer it to NSchermer
<ochosi> i think he's the main maintainer of too many components atm
<lderan> ochosi, ah would of helped if i built light-locker with " --with-mit-ext" :P
<ochosi> lderan: hehe, well you could've also just used the daily PPA ;)
<lderan> true
<knome> lderan, is there any hope for getting your GUI land to T? :))
<Noskcaj> remember stability of it can come after the FF, we just need a basic version
<lderan> yup i'll get it working tomorrow :)
<Noskcaj> YAY
<knome> Noskcaj, while you are correct, that's not the recommended process
<ochosi> Noskcaj: eric_the_idiot said he might do a release after monday for xfdesktop, do you think you can update our package?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Should be pretty easy. I'll packaging it in debian first in case corsac will upload, but i'll have a branch up by wednesday local time (tuesday i usually can't do stuff)
<andrzejr> ochosi, I could do it for less important releases (x.x.1) but not the first release of the new series
<Noskcaj> with any luck i'll finally have motu by then
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yeah, i'm not sure it'll be 100% bugfix, so it has prime importance to get it in before FF
<ochosi> andrzejr: yeah, i understand...
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok
<ochosi> lderan: if you can push your stuff to a branch somewhere, i can add the xfceheader stuff to the UI if you want
<ochosi> and try things like setting the appicon
<lderan> okay, shall do so now. Its not much more then the ui hooked up to buttons at the moment
<ochosi> lderan: ok, sure, no rush :)
<ochosi> just wanted to get out of doing some update to greybird that i've been pushing away... :)
<lderan> :)
<lderan> ochosi, https://code.launchpad.net/~lderan/+junk/light-locker there yougo
<ochosi> lderan: hehe, you called it "light-locker" for easy disambiguation, right? :D
<lderan> :P
<lderan> can change it easily enough to what ever :P
 * knome awards lderan the "most ambiguous branch name" award
<lderan> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-15
<lderan> https://code.launchpad.net/~lderan/+junk/light-locker-settings-panel now with less abiguation 
<ochosi> lderan: hehe, no worries, i already pulled the other branch
<ochosi> i'll have to push the glade file to my own branch anyway...
<ochosi> i'm getting closer to this looking like a real dialog ;)
<ochosi> lderan: any particular reason you'd use a checkbox once and a gtkswitch the other time?
<lderan> no reason
<lderan> it is just a quick mock-up for me to use
<ochosi> Noskcaj: there's a new release of gmusicbrowser (1.1.12), in case you have some free time/motivation
<Noskcaj> I don't have time to do it tonight, but i've got nothing to do tomorrow except more dota, so it will get done
<ochosi> great!
<knome> any reason for:  [xubuntu-qa] Write testcase for GTK3 indicators: BLOCKED
<elfy> other than it's not landed?
<elfy> not sure what we could have in a testcase anyway tbh
<elfy> it'd be a bit <<dt>Turn on the machine</dt> <dd>Indicators are in the indicator panel</dd>
<knome> mmh, that the indicators work
<knome> when clicking on them
<knome> i mean, menus open
<elfy> I guess so
<elfy> but aren't they all Ubuntu things anyway?
<knome> i guess it's partly related to working with our panel patch
<elfy> mmm
<knome> so not just as simple as "do the indicators work"
<knome>  [jjfrv8] Write documentation for MenuLibre: INPROGRESS
<knome> jjfrv8, what's the status on that?
<elfy> knome: how many of the indicators are we actually using
<knome> elfy, i don't know the exact number
<knome> elfy, and i don't we've decided on that yet
<elfy> ok
<knome> elfy, i mean, it depeds on which ones are shipped... it might be on a merge proposal already
<elfy> is it even going to actually land in time 
<knome> sure
<knome> we have prepared that stuff, and some of the components needed for that have landed already
<knome> or at least, are landing any day
<knome> it's not all final yet, but at least we have the new features landing so we can do with bugfixes only
<elfy> yep - ok
<knome> will just have to do some smoketesting once we have them up
<elfy> did you see my comment about removing gthumb from tracker?
<knome> i probably did, but remind me
<knome> actually, nvm, i misread you :)
<elfy> if we're dropping it then we don't need to test it :)
<knome> yep, let's drop it (we will not be seeding it)
<knome> and i already committed changes to the docs
<knome> (dropping gthumb-related sections)
<elfy> done for tracker 
<knome> thanks
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html looks good :
<knome> :)
<knome> and so does the packges tracker for our packages...
<elfy> indeed it does
<knome> (yeah, lots of bugs, but also lots of tests done)
<knome> as soon as we hit FF, we should have more time to look at those
<elfy> only one 'section' left now - so we've got loads of space for things like menulibre/inds
<elfy> so that plan worked :)
<knome> yep
<knome> good good
<knome> all due to your good work
<elfy> lol thanks 
<elfy> though it's not just me :)
<knome> no, but the you've organized it
<knome> which has worked really good
<elfy> :)
<elfy> using trello worked
<knome> don't know about that ;)
<knome> i mean, apparently it did work
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> but i don't know much about trello
<knome> or *how* it worked
<elfy> I put all my scraps of paper on it so the rest of -qa had them as well :p
<knome> lol
<knome> worksforme
<elfy> andus
<knome> yep
 * elfy finally gets time to read the meeting 
<knome> :)
<elfy> lderan: in the meeting you've got "lderan to create the individual merge proposals for the basix Xubuntu tests " what's that about? autopilot?
<jjfrv8> knome, which MenuLibre documentation are you asking about: ours or upstream?
<knome> jjfrv8, both
<jjfrv8> well, I already drafted the section for our docs, but it referred to the current app menu
<knome> okay
<jjfrv8> I don't know what the status is now, still confused about the decision at the meeting
<knome> shouldn't be too different from whiskermenu
<knome> we will use whiskermenu
<jjfrv8> it sounded like both would be in the panel by default. no?
<knome> no
<knome> we will replace the appmenu with whiskermenu
<jjfrv8> ok
 * elfy is just looking at the doku stuff for menulibre - try and get testcase done today
<knome> elfy, ooh, nice
<jjfrv8> bluesabre has the upstream version pretty complete but he's supposed to be releasing an updated app version this weekend
<knome> okay
<jjfrv8> that will mean some mods to the docs
<knome> ochosi, do you happen to know if that changes much re: docs?
<ochosi> elfy: as an example for indicators-test-case: install indicator-messages and test whether it works with our default apps (pidgin, thunderbird)
<knome> jjfrv8, oh, right, you talked with him?
<knome> ochosi, "install" ?
<ochosi> elfy: but it's true that a bugreport might still go against upstream/ubuntu
<ochosi> knome: we don't have additional indicators in the seed yet
<knome> okay
<ochosi> sry, not sure about menulibre docs
<ochosi> wasn't involved in those at all
<elfy> ochosi: if thunderbird is supposed to be in the menu then there's something up here
<knome> but the testcases should still match the "final" situation
<knome> that meaning, if we're about to ship indicator-messages, then we should expect it's installed
<ochosi> elfy: i thought that new mail and stuff should be there, but i haven't been able to use that indicator for so long (and now i don't use tb anymore)
<elfy> pidgin/xchat are there 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, actually we should decide on what indicators to ship
<knome> ochosi, add it to the meeting agenda and we'll decide on the next meeting
<knome> ...which we should schedule
 * elfy has minor panic wondering how hobgolin was logging in - and blames ochosi for making him press the pidgin button
<knome> lol
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> for the moment I'll assume we'll have at -messages, -sound, -network 
<elfy> are we ignoring the date/time one and keeping the other?
<knome> there was a bug re: the datetime one, see the blueprint
 * elfy remembers now he sees that
<ochosi> i'll also propose -power
<ochosi> because i patched it upstream to work with xfce4-powermanager
<knome> yes please
<knome> that's useful with laptops :P
<ochosi> it's nicer than the tray, displays remaining battery-time optionally
<ochosi> only drawback is you cannot hide/show it conditionally yet in xubuntu
<knome> don't really know why you'd want to hide it
<ochosi> same as with xfce4-powerman i guess: "only show when battery is present", "only show when charging/discharging", "always show", "always hide"
<ochosi> we'll have to see whether we can set it to "only show when battery is present" by default in xubuntu
<ochosi> (some gsettings or dconf thingy)
<knome> ochosi, that's unrelated
<knome> ochosi, my point is, why would you want to hide it anyway
<ochosi> e.g. if you don't have a laptop?
<ochosi> and therefore no battery
<ochosi> oh
<knome> "oh!"
<knome> :D
<knome> haha..
<ochosi> actually i just saw that it's set to that by default :)
<knome> well you can just uninstall the package in that case...
<ochosi> so lucky us
<ochosi> you can also right-click the indicator-plugin and hide the battery directly there
<ochosi> so there are plenty of options
<knome> yyep
<ochosi> just "charge" isn't easy to set
<knome> not a big deal
<knome> "charge"?
<ochosi> "only show when charging"
<knome> right
<knome> that's a weird mode...
<elfy> so how do you get this power indicator to show up then :p setting show icon in power doesn't use that - I get the other icon
<GridCube> :D so we are using wishkersmenu? :D thats awesome
<knome> only two days late... :P
<ochosi> elfy: "the other icon"?
<ochosi> elfy: i presume you have a laptop, not a desktop?
<elfy> desktop
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> did you not read what i said before?
<elfy> so - that's good - can't write testcase :p
<ochosi> by default, it's only shown when a battery is *present* (hence the name of the mode)
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> ochosi: I had a 14 year old yabbering in my ear about cinema prices ... 
<ochosi> hihi
<ochosi> fair enough
<ochosi> just give him 20bucks and send him off ;)
<elfy> she got that alreadyy ... 
<ochosi> oh, a girl, sry
<knome> haha
<elfy> thankfully someone else get's the pleasure of 6 14 year olds tonight ... woohoo
<elfy> ochosi: np - you didn't know :)
<ochosi> haha nice
<GridCube> knome, P: i re-read the meeting logs and it just said "to be discussed later" on the wishkers menu issue O:
<jjfrv8> ochosi, do you know how I can get whiskermenu to call MenuLibre? It's listed in 'Commands', but no icon showing for it.
<elfy> jjfrv8: right click - edit applications
<jjfrv8> is checked
<ochosi> true, weird
<elfy> clicking that opens menulibre here
<jjfrv8> yeah, but it's working on app menu, not whisker
<ochosi> it's disabled for me
<elfy> mmm - never worked on app menu for me 
<ochosi> haha, menulibre wasn't installedd
<elfy> \o/ 
<elfy> not just me then :p
 * knome facepalms
<ochosi> jjfrv8: worksforme ;D
<knome> bluesabre, stop hiding!
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, unfortunately and unlike you i don't have a good excuse...
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> knome: one channel at a time
<knome> bluesabre, then let it be this :P
<bluesabre> you all talk too much, make it hard to catch up :D
<elfy> bluesabre: have a leaf from my book - ignore what you missed :)
<knome> bluesabre, i'm not talking, i'm typing...
<jjfrv8> doesn't work for me. I would expect to see five icons since I have five commands checked: http://imagebin.org/293503
<jjfrv8> but I only see four.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the edit-menu thing is in the right-click menu
<jjfrv8> yeah, it's there but when I click on that I get the app menu in ManuLibre
<jjfrv8> so I can't get there from here :(
<ochosi> there is no whisker-menu specific view in menulibre
<ochosi> menulibre always looks the same
<ochosi> you can edit the launchers and the categories that launchers appear in with menulibre
<ochosi> no whisker-specific stuff there at all
<jjfrv8> so that's going to be confusing because the entries don't match
<jjfrv8> e.g., not Help stuff in whiskermenu
<knome> hmm, right, the custom desktop entries in our appmenu
<bluesabre> we need to enable the setting in whisker "Show menu hierarchy" to make the layout match
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, that is, if we want that
<ochosi> knome: ?
<bluesabre> right, if you want the matching layout
<knome> "contribute to xubuntu"
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i understand the confusion, best to submit an issue upstream about it on github
<knome> are those visible in whiskermenu/menulibre by default?
<ochosi> knome: we can define the favorites ourselves
<elfy> bluesabre: just a small thing here - wording for the tooptip on hide from menu's in menulibre might do with rewording a bit, 'tons of good reasons' seems a bit odd
<bluesabre> we could add a "Xubuntu" directory, or add to favorites
<knome> well exactly
<knome> we should do that
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/293504
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> knome: they are visible
<knome> ochosi, would you *please* add that to a blueprint?
<knome> ochosi, we might also want to rethink them
<bluesabre> elfy, taken straight from the desktop spec
<ochosi> elfy: that is a looooong tooltip :p
<knome> ochosi, we could do with just the "help" item, and just advertise the other items better in the help start page
<bluesabre> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
<elfy> ochosi: indeed - I try not to hover 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'd second that
<bluesabre> I will fix the not being a mile long today
<bluesabre> stupid gtk3 bug
<elfy> bluesabre: that is a really childish spec lol
<elfy> tons of good reasons ... kind of stuff :p
<ochosi> btw, a nice feat of whisker is that ppl can easily adjust the icon-size
<elfy> unless you wrote it in which case it looks really good 
<ochosi> (the appmenu can be really small)
<ochosi> elfy: opportunist!
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> yeah, I should probably rewrite the hints
<elfy> I would do it - but I'd have no idea how 
<ochosi> shimmer-themes (1.7.0-0ubuntu1) trusty: Accepted
<ochosi> \o/
<knome> woot
<elfy> ochosi: nice 
<ochosi> we're looking surprisingly good suddenly
<elfy> can I remove that ppa soon then
<ochosi> and i'm not just punning on the artwork update ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, you can
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, yes you were
<ochosi> ;D
<jjfrv8> so... I'm easily confused. Are we going to do something to make the entries you see in whiskermenu look more like the ones in appmenu?
<jjfrv8> appmenu has a mixture of launchers and directories on the main screen, whisker only has directories (plus Recent and Faves)
<knome> jjfrv8, no, whiskermenu is a bit different
<knome> jjfrv8, we were just discussing of adding the things we have on the "root" of appmenu to favorites
<jjfrv8> okay, but it seems to me that doesn't resolve the confusion about seeing a completely different looking hierarchy when you launch MenuLibre
<ochosi> it's not completely different
<ochosi> but yeah, i guess menulibre 1.0's main view was easier with menulibre ;)
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, are you still planning on adding the ability to put a launcher into a new directory?
<bluesabre> thats the plan
<jjfrv8> I've just been fooling with it here as we were talking to see if stuff I added would show up in whiskermenu, and I can't get a new directory to show up in either.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: test something for me? add your new directory, save it, then move it
<jjfrv8> weird stuff. I created a new directory called 'Test'. After saving and exiting MenuLibre, it didn't show up in either menu, but...
<jjfrv8> when I went back into menulibre, it was called 'Test2'.  Then I moved it per your request. Exited and came back. Gone.
<elfy> can't get a directory to show here either
<jjfrv8> in terminal, I'm getting a (menulibre:5222): Gtk-CRITICAL error.
<elfy> bluesabre: http://pastebin.com/AUQKfsJv
<bluesabre> these ones (menulibre:7040): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_tree_model_get_iter: assertion 'path->depth > 0' failed
<bluesabre> are seemingly unavoidable, and not really a problem
<jjfrv8> ok
<bluesabre> ok, stop testing on these today, I'll poke the code some more and try to get these fixed
<jjfrv8> k, thanks.
<elfy> thanks bluesabre 
<GridCube> i have a question, even though i love the idea of using whiskersmenu, in the pop-up menu on the desktop, at the bottom there will be the appmenu right? so both will still be there
<GridCube> ?
<elfy> I don't think that is the plan GridCube - just whiskermenu
<GridCube> then the menu in the contextual popup will dissapear? or it will call whiskers?
<elfy> no idea GridCube 
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> ok just bringing it out because i though about it
<elfy> a meeting would be the best time for that - I know I'll forget :p
 * GridCube would not be really bothered if it went away from the contextual menu
<ali12341> is there a way to make mousepad open files in the existing window?
<ochosi> ali12341: this must be your lucky day, a patch was posted yesterday about that: http://board.byuu.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4598
<ali12341> well, that's pretty cool
<ochosi> mousepad needs a settings-dialog though
<ochosi> codebrainz said there are quite a few patches floating around
<ali12341> that person is on #xfce-dev
<ochosi> yes, that's where he talked about the patch 12hrs ago or so :)
<ali12341> i don't think it does need a settings dialog tbh
<ochosi> well, seems like many of the proposed patches bring new options
<ali12341> why make them options though?
<ali12341> just enable them all the time
<ochosi> i dunno what other patches there are
<ali12341> opening new window should be a command line option
<ochosi> it's been a while since i poked around in the mousepad bugzilla
<ali12341> since it has no effect other than when you run it from command line
<ochosi> i suggest you update the patch and ping codebrainz
<ochosi> he's generally quite open to merging stuff in
<ali12341> hmm so a config panel is the blocker?
<ali12341> i don't know how to make config panels though
<ochosi> no, i meant:
<ochosi> update the patch so that it becomes a commandline option like you suggested
<ochosi> i think that makes sense
<ochosi> that way it's not an option that needs to be in a menu or anything
<ochosi> lderan: by the way, the fourth option isn't a light-locker option. you need to use the python equivalent of XSetScreenSaver
<lderan> aye was going to ask about that after i've finished with the light-locker specific options
<lderan> thanks
<ochosi> sure, no problem
<ochosi> basically all you need is XSetScreenSaver and XGetScreenSaver
<ochosi> and probably XScreenSaverQueryExtension
<ochosi> (to see whether the extension is available, which it should be by defualt in xubunt)
<elfy> ochosi: ind panel testcase is there for review, I've not bothered with date nor keyboard at the moment, neither appear to work here, so it is just sound, messaging and network at the moment
<ochosi> elfy: link?
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1280605/+merge/206582
<ochosi> elfy: sounds good to me. although testing one music-player in the soundmenu might suffice
<elfy> well - reason I added that was with clementine - there is a playlist option :)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> very few players have that option
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> *very*
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> best make clementine default then :p
<ochosi> it's qt, remember?
<elfy> not that I've never said that before lol 
<elfy> yea I remember that too :p
<ochosi> ok, good :)
<ochosi> want help on indicator-power?
<elfy> help?
<elfy> if I can I will
<elfy> re the indicator one - I'll get knome or slickymaster to look - then we can get it on the tracker and available for when they land
<ochosi> well i just thought since you don't see the power-indicator, i can help you with the testcase
<elfy> oic - that would be great :)
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> elfy: http://dpaste.com/1623381/
<ochosi> ali12341: or motivate byuu to modify the patch ;)
<elfy> ochosi: cheers :)
<ochosi> elfy: np ;)
<ochosi> elfy: and after the meeting i have to say i'm sorry if you feel that testing is underappreciated, i think everyone here is very grateful for your work. and yeah, it's not easy to motivate other ppl to test...
<ochosi> (and testing obviously makes sense and in comparison to other flavors, you're really making xubuntu shine)
<elfy> thanks ochosi 
<elfy> ochosi: ok - that's up for merge now as well - that was easy :p
<bluesabre> lderan: let me know if you need some help
<lderan> bluesabre, will do
<ochosi> elfy: cool
<elfy> I'll try and get whiskermenu done now I've got the right head on 
<lderan> bluesabre, actually one thing, the spin buttons that i've got don't seem to be working very well. the steppers dont work and i can't type into them. Probably have clicked something glade :P
<bluesabre> lderan: I think for spin buttons you have to add an adjustment to be able to operate
<lderan> ah thanks
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - so how detailed do we want whiskermenu testcase?
<ochosi> hm, it's just a menu
<ochosi> so i guess, "can you interact with the menu"
<ochosi> use the searchbox to launch an app
<ochosi> stuff like that
<ochosi> no need to go into the settings
<ochosi> we'll try to provide sensible defaults anyway
<ochosi> and the rest is up to everyone themselves
<bluesabre> do we ship the xubuntu icon default yet?
<bluesabre> or will that be x-d-s
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean for the whiskermenu?
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> no, actually x-d-s hasn't received any of the new panel layout
<ochosi> that includes the settings
<ochosi> micahg: when do you plan to upload xubuntu-default-settings?
<bluesabre> (and before that, merges)
<ochosi> yeah, obviously :)
<ochosi> i'm mostly wondering whether it makes sense to start working on the panel layout now
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster: around?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so opening from menu, search box and opens, adding to favourites, recently used is populated, clears - that sort of thing 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, although i'm not sure if recently is populated on a clean box...
<elfy> well it would be after you'd opened some thing in the testcase :)
<elfy> ochosi: what about the settings button/lock screen/logout things - want them in the test?
<knome> elfy, one of my first bigger contirbutions to FOSS: http://blog.knome.fi/files/2007/07/splash-enhanced-1407-2054.png
<elfy> well I have to say I have seen that :)
<knome> can't remember where/what the original photo is, but good eyes can actually recognise at least of one the persons in the splash :P
<ochosi> knome: are those cool kids in the background your friends? ;)
<knome> ochosi, nope, they are amarok/kde contributors
<ochosi> elfy: not sure, somehow these buttons/functions seem like parts of other tests, but up to you
<knome> "kids", aiaiai
 * ochosi is old
<knome> hah
<elfy> ochosi: they are all tested elsewhere - I'll leave them then
 * elfy isn't 
<ochosi> elfy: ok cool
<jjfrv8> knome, what's up?
<bluesabre> Unit193, other packagers, let me know if there is anything else I should change with the packaging :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/lightdm-gtk-greeter-trusty/+packages
<bluesabre> (before sending it off to the sponsors)
<knome> jjfrv8, we will most probably have a new upload for the slideshow next week, would you like to set up a sprint to get some things done for that, so it would land in the beta images?
<knome> jjfrv8, like, monday or tuesday
<jjfrv8> things like what?
<knome> we probably want to highlight some of the cool features we have rather than the applications
<knome> so a slide on customizable desktop
<knome> maybe something about menulibre/mugshot in another
<knome> we don't have to put out the final stuff out yet, but it would be good to try out how that looks in the installer
<knome> and then it's also easier to build and modify from that
<jjfrv8> yeah, I'd be able to put some time into it.
<knome> okay, what time would work best for you, if we had a sprint?
<knome> around 19UTC'ish good, or later?
<jjfrv8> today?
<knome> monday or tuesday
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so whiskermenu is there as well now https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1280608/+merge/206586
<knome> or tomorrow pre 19UTC
<jjfrv8> tomorrow's not so good. I'm snowbound today. Monday & Tuesday would have to be pre-1900.
<elfy> knome: there's a couple of testcase mp's there if you get chance
<knome> elfy, i'll look at them later today, ta :)
<knome> jjfrv8, mon/tue pre-19 works for me as well. what would be the best time for you? i can usually stretch my schedule
<elfy> knome: also when we get them on the tracker - I'm thinking that maybe have them as seperate on the tracker till 14.10, then move them into the main groups
<knome> elfy, worksforme
<elfy> lol - a lot of this worksforme going on atm :p
<jjfrv8> I'd say Monday or Tuesday starting at 14.
<knome> jjfrv8, somewhere around 14 sounds good. monday?
<jjfrv8> sure
<knome> great, i'll try to catch slickymaster as well
<knome> and put that down on my calendar
<jjfrv8> subject to emergencies at the real job :)
<knome> sure
<knome> just tell us if something comes up
<jjfrv8> is there anything I could do in advance today?
<knome> anything and everything; basically, if you have any ideas for the slideshow, or want to draft the content, feel free to do so
<knome> did i already tell how you can test the slideshow?
<jjfrv8> yes
<jjfrv8> I'll see if I can find it :)
<knome> ok, cool
<knome> well, in the slideshow branch root, ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<knome> slides are in html, inside slideshows/xubuntu
<knome> see index.html if you want to add/remove slides
<jjfrv8> yup, got it now. thx.
<knome> it's pretty straightforward, most of the logic is outside the files we need to poke
<knome> good
<knome> let me see if i had something planned...
<knome> not here at least :)
<knome> might have something on the laptop, will put that into a pad later if i have
<jjfrv8> k
<knome> i'm pretty certain we're thinking along the same lines though
<knome> i guess the only thing to remember with the slideshow is that we don't need "marketing speech" there
<knome> that should be saved for the website
<knome> the slideshow should dig a bit deeper and introduce and inspire users to (do) things they can do after the installation
<knome> (or if they are running the live session, during the installation)
<jjfrv8> good points
<jjfrv8> I'll start playing around with it
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> i might be around later today as well
<knome> well, probably will
<knome> but not sure in what quantity or motivation :)
<jjfrv8> hehe
<knome> ok, i'm off for now
<knome> see you later
<GridCube> elfy, im testing todays image and boy the wallpaper selection thing is broken
<brainwash_> broken?
<GridCube> yes
<brainwash_> not working at all?
<brainwash_> I assume that you are talking about xfdesktop-settings
<GridCube> first you are presented with an empty wallpaper list, second if you choose a folder where to choose wallapers its set up to fill the screen, you can not change it to any of the other options, like centered, proportional, tiled, none of that work, neither works choosing "empty"
<GridCube> if you close the selector and reopen it the list is empty again
<brainwash_> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10685
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10685 in General "wallpaper thumbnails are missing sometimes" [Minor,New]
<GridCube> more like all times
<brainwash_> do the wallpaper previews show up when you click on the list area?
<elfy> no
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfdesktop/+bug/1271713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1271713 in xfdesktop "xubuntu 14.04 trusty thar desktop wallpapers selection shows empty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<GridCube> no brainwash_ 
<brainwash_> so the current selected folder does not contain any pictures? :D
<GridCube> no
<elfy> it should at least include the one that it's using
<GridCube> http://goput.it/b34h.png
<GridCube> its not
<brainwash_> but you have to select a folder
<GridCube> its not there
<brainwash_> you've already filed a report, so maybe it will get fixed
<brainwash_> the obvious solution would be to set the path via xubuntu-default-settings
<GridCube> http://goput.it/str/n7k2.png
<brainwash_> if it's missing
<GridCube> http://goput.it/str/8cut.png
<GridCube> i guess
<GridCube> there, reported elfy :D
<GridCube> i did a thing today! /o/
<elfy> :)
<brainwash_> I did not test the iso, but if I remove my xfdesktop config, restart the session and open xfdesktop-settings, I'm presented with the wallpapers from the backdrops folder
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Alioth is still broken, i think i'll have to make a bzr branch of gmusicbrowser
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm back
<ochosi> Noskcaj: oh, i see...
<jjfrv8> knome, welcome back
<ochosi> well it's a bugfix release, if you take a look at the changelog, that's very clear
<ochosi> so i think it won't need a FFe, even if it's ready later
<jjfrv8> I've been re-familiarizing myself with the slideshow logistics and have started on a mugshot slide
<Noskcaj> yeah. I'll make the bzr branch anyway, since we don't know how long alioth will be down (1 month so far)
<knome> jjfrv8, let's group menulibre in the same slide
<jjfrv8> hmmm
<knome> jjfrv8, note: we can drop the image and show more text than currently
<jjfrv8> I see
<knome> just have to work out the css, but that's completely doable
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/newstartpage
<knome> for anyone interested
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Howdy.  So I'm supposed to add a new table part, I've added it to guide-default-apps.xml.  It might not be in the right section or formatted correctly, but has the correct information: https://unit193.net/xubuntu-testing/desktop-guide/guide-default-apps.html#application-table how would you make it less bad? :P
<jjfrv8> howdy, Unit193, I'll take a look shortly
<knome> Unit193, leap of faith. pushed an update to the translation template ;)
<Unit193> Uh oh.
<knome> :)
<knome> if it fails... well, we can fish up the the translated strings from the old .pos
<Unit193> I'll have a clean branch here, so I could merge the strings in.
<knome> let's see what happens
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu-testing/ also, doesn't look too bad. :P
<knome> nope.
<knome> the language list is still hardcoded though
<knome> any ideas how to make it dynamic on build-time, and is there any way we can get real language names?
<ochosi> Unit193: don't forget to check bluesabre's branch for the greeter ;)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, Unit193: anything you think I should change about this package? https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/lightdm-gtk-greeter-trusty/+packages
<Unit193> Why is everybody asking meee things? :P
<Unit193> knome: Language-Team in the po files? :/
<ochosi> Unit193: you're the a pro packager, everyone knows that ;)
<Unit193> knome: sed -n /Language-Team:/p *.po | awk '{print $2}'   I don't know if gettext has something that already shows info on the po files.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Looks pretty good, let's see what someone with upload rights says
<bluesabre> alrighty, I'll get started on the next steps
 * Unit193 likes how blues overwrites the manpage warning. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: that actually came from debian :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: How do you run lintian?
<bluesabre> lintian *.dsc
<bluesabre> I always forget the "proper" way to do it
<jjfrv8> knome, I don't see the "Xubuntu is a community-developed..." paragraph on the new page but it looks like it's still there in the diffs. Am I missing something?
<Unit193> If you run it on the changes file, it'll check both the source and binary package.  I personally use lintian --pedantic -E -I
<knome> jjfrv8, as a comment
<Unit193> Also under "Get Involved"
<jjfrv8> oh
<Unit193> knome: Like my hacky way to get the string names?
<knome> Unit193, if it works, and there isn't any easier way, i don't mind it. want to create a makefile that works that magic? :>
<Unit193> Whhhy?  It'll just get stuck in merges. :>
<knome> not really
<Unit193> Uhh, I could look into it, but remember that I'm not good with Makefiles.
<Unit193> knome: That was my cheap copout. :P
<knome> yeah, you can do it
<knome> hmm, didn't i merge the linguas branch yet? was there any reason not to?
<knome> did you want a code sanity check?
<Unit193> You know makefiles?  And sure, any review would be good.
<bluesabre> Unit193: familiar with the new tag debian-watch-may-check-gpg-signature?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes.  But you aren't signing your release tarballs are you?
<bluesabre> no, so that will go away when they are properly signed then?
<bluesabre> or, the release tarballs
<Unit193> Nope.
<bluesabre> I ship a .asc with them
<Unit193> It's how your watch file is formatted, it'll check the tarball against your sig if it can find it, and it'll want you to ship a .gpg sig to confirm it against.
<bluesabre> I see
<Unit193> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/debian-watch-may-check-gpg-signature.html
<bluesabre> yeah, I see that
<bluesabre> not particularly helpful
<brainwash_> ochosi: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/fehlerhafte-darstellung-beim-panel-und-beim-lo/
<brainwash_> :D
<Unit193> Not likely anyone will want it, but I have zsync that doesn't backup files to .zs-old, and can also work over https connections.
<brainwash_> Unit193: xfce4-indicator-plugin for trusty is not a git snapshot, right?
<Unit193> Right.
<brainwash_> mmh, we need the latest upstream fixes
<brainwash_> soon I guess
<Unit193> brainwash_: The story I got was that those were bug fixes, thus could go in later if 2.2.0 was in now.
<bluesabre> knome: have a relevant upload poke? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1280670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1280670 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.1-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> knome: Still alive and kicking?
<bluesabre> knome: poke
<bluesabre> knome: nudge
<bluesabre> knome: ping
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> knome: Poke
<Unit193> knome: Poke
<Unit193> knome: Poke
<Unit193> knome: Poke
<Unit193> bluesabre: Super fast!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Subscribe the right team and it'll show up on the queue.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> which team to subscribe?
<Unit193> ubuntu sponsors?
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> so that team I already subscribed?
<Unit193> Could also try to do a bzr merge into lp:ubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter (I do this by branching, then rsync -avhP --delete-after mysource/ theirbzr/ --exclude .bzr )
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yep, and it's showing on the queue.
<bluesabre> right
 * bluesabre isn't sure what the original problem was
<Unit193> I got it outputting the correct html lines, but of course you can't just tag them on the end of the html document.
<Unit193> (Basically, I'm turning the makefile into a bash file. >_> )
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, are you good with makefiles and have a sec?
<bluesabre> I am pretty midocre at makefiles
<bluesabre> and spelling
<bluesabre> mediocre?
 * bluesabre googles
<bluesabre> win
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/linguas/+merge/205281 the makefile in there works for me, but...
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/erJMYlalvmkDO8TByBJM/ that's even worse, even for a bash file. :P
<ali12341> what is it supposed to do?
<bluesabre> looks like just translations?
<ali12341> why do you echo to sed and then awk?
<ali12341> why not just echo what you want in the first place?
<Unit193> That's actually ;, not |
<ali12341> what does /p do?
<Unit193> text here; dynamic text here.  Print, it's for the -n flag.
<ali12341> so that sed is really a grep?
<Unit193> >_<
<Unit193> Yes.
<brainwash_> ubuntu wiki won't let me login once again :/
<Unit193> Welp, horrey for overcomplicating.  I was thinking doing it all with sed, but with awk print it's easier, so I guess left that sed in there.
<brainwash_> we need to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<ali12341> oh i see what youre doing
<ali12341> building an index to every translation right?
<Unit193> Exactly.
<Unit193> (Also now I s/sed/grep/)
<ali12341> so you want to cat header.html > index.html; for loop; cat footer.html >> index.html
<Unit193> That's what I was thinking, yeah.
<Unit193> Not sure of another way to do it.
<ali12341> inside the forloop get rid of the echo and print everything with awk and then redirect it to the output file >>
<Unit193> https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus/status/432754992634544128 well fun.
<ali12341> maybe it won't be super slow afterwards
<bluesabre> bahhhhh
<Unit193> ali12341: I was having problems with that because single quotes of course would have actually put the vars as is in (So, would have actually printed $lang), and double quotes didn't seem to work with awk well when I tried.
<Unit193> But I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
<ali12341> yeah escaping is always a problem when you try to use bash or make or anything like that
<Unit193> So, I used echo, because I know how that works.  I agree, I'd like to put it all in an awk call (but don't know how to grep with awk)
<ali12341> what i do is just write it in python
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<jjfrv8> Unit193, getting back to you on those application tables...
<jjfrv8> I can see why we would want the first table but why the "Behind the scenes" one?
<Unit193> jjfrv8: In case the removal of an application removes one of those, someone builds up from the mini.iso, or someone installs -core.
<jjfrv8> ah. Well I don't know how to make it any less bad then ;)
<jjfrv8> We'll just have to figure out the best way to introduce/explain it, I guess.
<Unit193> Crap, I had hoped you'd be able to work magic on it.
<Unit193> ali12341: Well in theory I can actually put it in awk, just drop the quotes and escape the spaces.
<Unit193> awk {print\ $$2\ \"</a></li>\"}
<Unit193> Single quote the $$2
<knome> jjfrv8, fwiw, my problem with the app table was "it's too clumsy/cluttered"
<knome> jjfrv8, and i thought we could add it as an appendix, or so
<knome> jjfrv8, if it was an appendix, it wouldn't need to be very pretty
<jjfrv8> yeah, I like the appendix idea
<Unit193> (Second half of the first one likely should be marked that it's in the Settings Manager)
<knome> jjfrv8, Unit193: then it could be even closer to "packages shipped with xubuntu" (but non-exhaustive, not listing all dependencies of course)
<knome> though i don't mind any format you find useful
<Unit193> knome: Right, I was looking at the list above what I was writing and the seedfile.  I figured gmusicbrowser, gimp, firefox, and thunderbird were all too clear to bother adding.
<knome> mhm, but if it's moved to appendice, i don't think it's a bad idea to mention those
<knome> or not mention
 * knome shrugs
<knome> as long as it is a simple list, and the "guide for default applications" is still useful for beginners
<Unit193> Makes sense.
<knome> in the appendix, we might want to consider giving help how to view the full list of packages pulled in by -default, -default-settings, -core
<knome> (-artwork?)
<Unit193> Have fun. :D
<knome> a mention of the metapackages is probably a good idea at least
<knome> err, again, with full list i'm talking about first level dependencies
<knome> err, s/-default/-desktop
<knome> and i was simply referring to
<knome> sudo apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop
<knome> or a web interface for similar list
<Unit193> If you read full scrollback, best idea was to remove the cp -r call in startpage:, and cp xubuntu-docs.css logo_title_welcome.png reset.css  into the build dir, and copy or cat header.html, run the loop, then cat footer.html > xubuntu-index.html
<knome> header/footer being anything before/after the language list?
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> that's a bit meh.
<knome> i mean, in the sense of having .html files that aren't valid
<Unit193> header.ht.src ? :D
<knome> yeah, that would be better really
<Unit193> Haha. :D
<knome> i know it's only file extensions..
<Unit193> Still thinking my hack might be a bit hacky.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/mSN0y4jbD4Qil4ICyRFO/
<knome> i'm thinking if it really was too hard to create the all languages html part, and replace a specified variable in the file with that
<Unit193> And right now, I have both makefiles updating LINGUAS, of course that should be changed later (Needed it for testing since I'm only running the one.)
<jjfrv8> bbl
<knome> mhm
<knome> jjfrv8, oh dang, was just about to ask you where you got with the slideshow :D
<knome> ochosi, when will you have a .tar.gz that's compatible with the panel layout changer ready for the new layout?
<lderan> bluesabre, mmm would it be okay to store the x11 screensaver time in ~/.Xresources or is there a command line way of setting it?
<bluesabre> lderan: if the setting works in .Xresources, thats likely the only way to keep that setting across sessions
<lderan> righteo
<wabbla> hi, is there a standard workflow for an package, which was currently updated in testing, going into Ubuntu Trusty? is it done automatically or manually?
<wabbla> testing: i mean Debian Testing
<Unit193> If there is Ubuntu delta, it won't be automatic.
<wabbla> it seems to be "vanilla" debian: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/mixxx
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-16
<bluesabre> good news, I seem to have figured out some of the issues with menulibre :]
<knome> "some"?
<jjfrv8> knome, you still up?
<jjfrv8> good to hear, bluesabre :)
<jjfrv8> knome, something to start the discussion with anyway: http://imagebin.org/293613
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Miss XP, do we? :P
<jjfrv8> ?
<Noskcaj> yay, panel 4.11
<Noskcaj> packaging now
<Unit193> Handy indeed.
<Unit193> (Has a commit to fix transparency.)
<Unit193> Looks like it wasn't tagged though...
<andrzejr> Unit193, wait a moment...
<Noskcaj> thanks for the releases andrzejr 
<Unit193> Oh no, he read me. :3
<andrzejr> tags should be ok now
<andrzejr> also released xfce4-indicator-plugin
<andrzejr> One thing unclear about the panel is dependency on xfconf - so far no 4.11.0 version yet but there were some changes in git.
<Unit193> garcon, yeah.
<Unit193> Thanks!
<Noskcaj> both updates done, just have to wait for sponsorings
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> finally... made add directory functionality work right
<bluesabre> and fixed xfce toplevel adding
<bluesabre> tomorrow will be a good day for menulibre
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Updated my "small-fixes" branch for the seed, s/gcalctool/gnome-calculator/ as it's a transitional package.
<elfy> lderan: how's "Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing" going?
<elfy> ochosi knome - whiskermenu and gtk3 indicators now on tracker 
<DanChapman> elfy lderan are you guys still planning to use autopilot, i have an MP waiting which adds a test runner for the tests so they can be run in a pristine environment much like ubiquity tests
<elfy> planning ... can't see it coming to fruition in this cycle though
<elfy> see 09:05 ^^ :)
<elfy> DanChapman: ^^
<brainwash> elfy: looks like we can start disabling all the additional PPAs :)
<ochosi> nice, releases of the panel and indicator-plugin!
<ochosi> thanks a lot andrzejr !
<ali12341> that's really cool
<ali12341> the panel transparency fix even got in
<ochosi> yup :)
<ochosi> it's pretty much all we need for trusty
<ochosi> (apart from the usual odd bugfix)
<ochosi> and that's even before b1, it's hard to believe :)
<elfy> brainwash: yea indeed, not sure which ones to disable yet lol 
<ochosi> knome: i'll try to do the panel-layout today
<ochosi> ali12341: would've been nice to see panel-switch get a UI in time for trusty
<elfy> brainwash: not sure about anyone else but I've got http://pastebin.com/5t1V6eDx
<ochosi> ali12341: we could package/upload it as is, if you think you could do a UI in time for release (could sneak that in as bugfix or FFe)
<ali12341> i don't think i will have time
<ochosi> elfy: depends on what has landed, but what you can remove once that's landed is: lightdm-gtk-greeter, noskcaj-indicator, shimmerproject, xubuntu-dev
<ochosi> elfy: not sure what's in unit193-trusty again
<elfy> think it was tabwin 
<ochosi> elfy: and i guess mugshot has already landed, so you can remove everything
<ochosi> ah
<brainwash> tabwin + root pixmap support
<ochosi> hmm, well that won't make it into 14.04 unless there comes a release for xfwm4 with the branch merged, like tomorrow
<elfy> ochosi: I'll purge them prior to b1 
<ochosi> hm, i wonder whether the packages in trusty won't supercede the PPA packages
<ali12341> they should do
<ochosi> if they do, you simply won't be getting updates anymore from teh PPAs
<ali12341> depends what version number the ppa uses
<ochosi> ali12341: :'( i understand, time is scarce. still, i think this is something really really useful. would you be ok with someone else providing a patch?
<ali12341> sure
<ochosi> i mean while the current implementation isn't perfect and not ready for upstream, i think users will appreciate it
<ochosi> maybe lderan has time and motivation for another small project
<brainwash> what about the headerbar xfwm4 patch?
<ochosi> yeah, hasn't been merged yet
<ochosi> so i dunno, we'd have to sneak that in as a patch
<ochosi> might be quite big as a patch
<brainwash> more apps will switch to headerbar only and look somewhat ugly
<ochosi> and humm, i'd need to update our themes (that's not really a problem though)
<ali12341> what apps?
<ochosi> e.g. gthumb
<brainwash> some gnome apps, elementary apps
<ochosi> that's one reason why we dropped it
<brainwash> and more to come (PPAs)
<ali12341> i think it looks fine with two header bars actually
<brainwash> ochosi: and gtkparasite :P
<ali12341> can you hack the theme so that the headerbar doesn't have the title?
<ali12341> then it would just look like a regular toolbar
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> that's another workaround i guess
<ali12341> also the close button
<ochosi> would have to be xubuntu-specific though
<ali12341> just make them height and width 0px
<ochosi> since greybird supports gnome3 as well
<ali12341> well, perhaps there are some gnome3 users who don't like headerbar?
<ochosi> nah, it's about the window-manager supporting headerbar
<ochosi> if i break it, then that won't look nice in all gnome3 apps
<ochosi> cause they use it by default
<ochosi> 3rd party apps are also switching to that very rapidly (without thinking about fallbacks)
<ali12341> seems like that's gnome3's problem
<ochosi> no, the 3rd party apps also make it our problem
<ali12341> i remain unconvinced
<ochosi> could be worse: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-16-124320.php
<ali12341> right
<ochosi> no idea how to remove that close-button though
<ali12341> http://imagebin.org/293661
<ali12341> if you can hide them it will just look like a regular toolbar
<ochosi> yup
<ali12341> no need to actually remove them, just style them so that they are invisible
<ali12341> maybe even render:none; would work
<ali12341> or display:none;
<ochosi> yeah, but then there's an empty space there
<ochosi> since there are options to move the close button to the other side (have yet to find them though), i guess we have to be able to hide them to
<ochosi> just set "position: /dev/null;"
<ali12341> or width:0px;
<ochosi> actually with "0" you don't use "px" anymore
<ochosi> i guess they felt that's uncool :)
<ali12341> there's a gtk option show-close-button which hides the x
<Unit193> http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-January/030607.html he used the right term for it.
<ali12341> why doesn't calculator have a headerbar on trusty?
<ali12341> i could proably make aLD_PRELOAD hack that selectively disables the header bar if there is nothing in it, or just hides the title and close button if there is
<ochosi> ali12341: ubuntu devs have patched "most" gnome3 apps
<ochosi> e.g. evince
<ochosi> they submitted patches upstream afaik to provide a fallback-mode if the app is used in !gnome-shell
<ali12341> for ach individual app?
<ochosi> yup
<ali12341> that's lame
<ochosi> for evince it took like 3 versions i think to get fixed
<ochosi> they're still working on fileroller
<ochosi> to get gnome-appmenu -> normal menu
<ali12341> well, not much i can do about the appmenus
<ochosi> it's lame of upstream gnome3 and app-devs to not think of other DEs
<ali12341> i don't mind those though
<ochosi> well they take the full width of a menubar while providing 1 item
<ochosi> that is lame
<Unit193> ochosi: But not unexpected at all. :/
<ali12341> but generally they only have one menu under them
<ochosi> Unit193: unexpected things still happen ;) (systemd)
<ochosi> ali12341: yup, gnome3 shows that in the panel
<ochosi> which is weird imo, having the gear-menu in the window-deco and that other menu in the panel
<ali12341> i don't understand
<ochosi> there are 2 menus in gnome3
<ochosi> the appmenu (with global settings for the app) in the panel
<ochosi> and the gear-menu, which is in the client-side decorations
<ali12341> like xfce4-panel?
<ochosi> (not sure how the latter is called)
<ochosi> no, only in gnome3's panel
<ali12341> so we can't access that menu at all?
<ochosi> for us that's in the menubar
<ali12341> where?
<ochosi> that's already the fallback
<ochosi> e.g. in file-roller in trusty
<ali12341> sorry i still don't understand :S
<ochosi> appmenu: http://picomol.de/wp-content/uploads/libreoffice_4.2-gnome_appmenu.png
<ali12341> can you show me with gthumb?
<ochosi> that gets converted to a single menubaritem
<ochosi> no, gthumb uses the headerbar, which is something else again
<ochosi> let me see whether i can find a screenshot with both
<ochosi> ok, e.g. http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1205/gnome_36_design/thumb620/calculator-app-menu.png
<ali12341> so if you run unpatched calculator on xfce where does that menu appear?
<ochosi> as a single item in the menubar
<ochosi> no other options, only these
<ali12341> what does it look like?
<ochosi> like a regular menubar
<ochosi> but it should have 3 items in that menubar
<ochosi> like it currently has
<ochosi> that's what the fallback mode does
<ochosi> sry, gotta quickly run out
<ochosi> bbiab
<ochosi> ali12341: this is what i called the "gear menu": http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/GNOME-s-File-Manager-Will-Be-More-User-Friendly-409360-4.png
<ochosi> ali12341: and here you can see both, although not in action: http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2013/12/radiance4.png
<ali12341> what's a good way to create a NULL widget that doesn't draw anything?
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<ochosi> how's it going with the folders?
<ochosi> ali12341: why would you wanna do that?
<ochosi> or where
<ali12341> headerbar has "custom title" widget
<ali12341> if you set it it hides the normal title
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> actually for xfce we can simply hide it in the theme
<ali12341> oh, okay then :)
<ali12341> this wouldn't work very well anyway
<ali12341> there's no way to know if the app hides or unhides it
<ochosi> i'll see whether i can tweak the headerbar more during the course of today
<ali12341> hiding the close button works quite well though
<ochosi> well i can do "fg-color=bg-color"
<ochosi> ah, how did you do it?
<ali12341> replace the gtk_header_bar_set_show_close_button function with a preload stub that always sets it to false
<ochosi> meh, i thought you did it in the theme
<ali12341> hmm actually...
<ali12341> maybe the header bar could be permanently hidden, and then just catch when it packs things into it and put them somewhere else
<ali12341> like a toolbar
<ochosi> you wanna patch gtk upstream?
<sergio-br2> hey, hello everyone
<ali12341> ochosi: it's a runtime patch
<sergio-br2> ochosi, i think places96 branch is ready to merge
<sergio-br2> it's missing some icons, but you said that they are optional
<brainwash_> ochosi: should I remove https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/desktop-icon-size ?
<brainwash_> a new release of xfdesktop will land in trusty hopefully soon and set the icon size to 48
<ali12341> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943234/
<ochosi> ali12341: doesn't look very long, so you'd just add this to the xfce session then?
<ali12341> i wouldn't recommend anyone actually uses it
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> brainwash_: 48? wouldn't 24 be better ... :p
<ali12341> so are there any apps that have a headerbar with no buttons?
<bluesabre> I would hope not
<ochosi> ali12341: no, headerbar is always toolbar+window-controls
<bluesabre> that completely destroys the purpose
<ali12341> i mean no buttons except window controls
<ali12341> like calculator
<brainwash_> elfy: 48 is now the default (upstream), the grid layout is also more compact now, so it looks similar to thunar's icon view
<elfy> was not serious ;)
<ali12341> hmm... got another approach... patch GtkHeaderBar out of existence entirely
<ochosi> not sure that has good chances of getting merged upstream
<ali12341> well it's still a runtime patch
<ochosi> brainwash_: yeah, feel free to drop that one. also, i've already changed greybird accordingly
<ali12341> this works surprisingly well
<ali12341> basically i patch gtk_header_bar_new to return a GtkBox instead, which has nearly all the same API
<ali12341> then ignore any operation that isn't adding buttons
<ali12341> GtkBox, when empty, uses no room
<ali12341> so this makes the headerbar go away completely unless someone adds a button to it, in which case you only see the buttons, and nothing else
<Unit193> Wow.
<ochosi> but the theming is probably a bit strange
<ochosi> cause it's flat, unlike toolbars
<ochosi> (which would probably be the best option, themingwise)
<ali12341> yeah, because it is drawn outside the window frame it has no background
<ali12341> the buttons are themed correctly
<ochosi> ah, hmmm
<ochosi> that's a problem, the gtkbox not having/drawing a background (in this case)
<ali12341> http://imagebin.org/293678
<ochosi> that's a bit ... ouch :)
<ali12341> it's fixable :)
<ochosi> yeah, i guess
<ochosi> i'm just wondering whether the simple theming trick to make it look like a toolbar is better/easier/safer
<ali12341> sure, i'm just doing this for fun
<ochosi> i assume you prefer this to writing a UI for panel-switch :}
<ali12341> cool, it works
<ali12341> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6943801/
<pleia2> knome: you about?
<pleia2> knome: need you to review a draft post for the site <3
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<pleia2> hi there elfy 
<pleia2> you want to have a look? :D
<elfy> can do :)
<pleia2> "Xubuntu Marketing with SpreadUbuntu Flyer - Draft"
<pleia2> ^^ in the list of posts
<elfy> pleia2: yep - assumed as much :)
<elfy> pleia2: can I assume that I don't need to ping you re [xubuntu-website] Run social media campaigning for QA during beta milestones: TODO
<elfy> when it comes up
<elfy> pleia2: post looks good to me
<pleia2> elfy: hah, this ping now should be sufficient! I'll put it on my calendar
<elfy> lol ok :)
<ochosi> thanks sergio-br2, merged places
<ochosi> will review the other branches in a bit and then merge them, supposedly
<ochosi> after that i'll do a release
<sergio-br2> ok
<ochosi> reviewed + merged
<ochosi> sergio-br2: project for next release: 96px mimes :)
<sergio-br2> yeah
<sergio-br2> and there are lot of...
<sergio-br2> rsrs
<ochosi> yup, i know, i've done pretty much all of the 64px ones myself
<ochosi> and for after that, i guess 128px mimes...
<ochosi> thing is, those are at least used/visible in xfce
<ochosi> most other 128px icons never show here
<sergio-br2> ochosi, i did the pull request
<sanchopanza> testing, testing.
<Noskcaj> sanchopanza, yeah, we see you
<sanchopanza> cool. anyone available to guide a newbie through getting started with documentation? 
<Noskcaj> knome, jjfrv8 ^
<Noskcaj> I'm not sure if they're around right now
<Noskcaj> Maybe send an email to the xubuntu-devel mailing list
<ochosi> slickymaster: ^
<ochosi> sanchopanza: depending on how much time you have, you could stick around for a bit
<sanchopanza> doesn't look like they're around. i'll try again later. jjfrv8 suggested getting on here for some guidance.
<ochosi> maybe some of them show up
<ochosi> what kind of docs would you like to work on?
<ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster: weeeee, good news, xfce has versioned docs now!
<knome> ochosi, cool, the patch worked as is?
<ochosi> knome: not sure: http://git.xfce.org/www/wiki.xfce.org/commit/?id=4d2f0a6d6ef6ec80149d22eb022384181ca601ea
<ochosi> can't remember now what yours looked like
<knome> looks similar, but i can't remember what my patch looked like either ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, no surprise it'll look at least similar ;)
<knome> yeah, it's the same code
<ochosi> ok cool
<knome> yep
<knome> nice to be of help ;)
<ochosi> well now we can clean up the docs on bluesabre's wiki and then i can push them upstream \o/
<ochosi> knome: actually nick did a bit more than just merge your patch, he also added another helper function in libxfce4ui so apps can send their version for the docs
<knome> :)
<knome> well that's nice
<ochosi> (right now it sends the desktop-version)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> very cool improvement
<ochosi> so we can in fact do parole-docs per version now
<ochosi> hmm, meh, seems like xfdesktop4.11 still sends "4.10" as xfce version
<ochosi> so i guess we'd need the new feature of libxfce4ui for that to work then
<knome> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-09
<elfy> pleia2: :D
<bluesabre> !team | friendly reminder, feature freeze / debian import freeze in 10 days https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<bluesabre> !team : friendly reminder, feature freeze / debian import freeze in 10 days https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ubottu> bluesabre: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bluesabre> never seem to get that right :/
<bluesabre> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> see above
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> also, light-locker 1.6 just released, will package that early this week, planning a release for lightdm-gtk-greeter this week as well
<ochosi> sweet
<bluesabre> catfish and mugshot will probably land this weekend
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you check with andrew p to see if he has anything else to add before we wrap that release up?
<ochosi> phew, well i guess he rebased the screenshoot branch
<ochosi> so that would be mergeable
<ochosi> but you said you don't want that
<bluesabre> alrighty, will probably go ahead and add that
<ochosi> so better reply to that MR then
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then let's merge that and then release
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> there are a few coverity bugs (very few), will fix those tonight most likely
<bluesabre> and now its time to go to work, bbabl
<pleia2> elfy: my brain froze on actually recording how many folks at the jam submitted tests, but it wasn't so bad
<pleia2> we did have trouble with new users logging in who didn't have launchpad/SSO though :(
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/temp/Screenshot_2015-02-08_16-42-16.png couldn't figure out how to get around that
<pleia2> the openid switch from launchpad to Ubuntu SSO has been such a disaster
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1416893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1416893 in Ubuntu QA Website "cannot login to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/" [High,Triaged]
<pleia2> and there were the typical complaints about the bug sorting mechanism being horrible (hover over to see bugs, bugs from unrelated tests being included in the list)
<pleia2> it was overwhelming and frustrating to newcomers, so I told them to ignore it and we'd sort out duplicates later
<elfy> pleia2: I am probably out of the 7 billion people in the world one that you shouldn't expect any sort of positive comment about SSO from :D
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> but thanks for what got done :)
<pleia2> I'll write up a full report of pain points (plus some sugar! people really loved the event) to the -quality list
<elfy> yea read you telling balloons that :)
<pleia2> there is a bug report for "hovering over bugs is the worst UI ever" right?
<pleia2> cannot find
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1366581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1366581 in Ubuntu QA Website "Testcase Report page enhancements" [Undecided,In progress]
<pleia2> great, thanks
<elfy> welcome :)
<elfy> pleia2: so has the california loco got a mail list or something?
<pleia2> ubuntu-us-ca@lists.ubuntu.com
<elfy> bah
<elfy> pleia2: if you're a mod - kill the elfyesq one please :D
<pleia2> k
<elfy> really should be more observant - but I'm not :p
<pleia2> I do it all th time too
<elfy> :)
<elfy> brainwash: just went to verify 1292290 - no xfce4-settings available to update
<elfy> that said I couldn't confirm the bug either - so wouldn't have actually been able to verify it one way or the other anyway
<elfy> bluesabre: is there anything floating about currently that you'd like to see testing done for? 
<ecsooboontoo> -alis #xubuntu-verbose
<ecsooboontoo> #xubutu-verbose
<elfy> what are you trying to do? 
<ecsooboontoo> elfy: I'm trying to learn how to use irc. Sorry if this has interfered with you channel.  
<elfy> no - I just wondered what you were trying to do :)
<elfy> you might be better doing it in #xubuntu-offtopic though 
<ecsooboontoo> elfy: yes, thankyou. 
<ecsooboontoo> elfy: I found what I was looking for, I looking for the command to add another channel using webchat client. On a side note: I very much appreciate the work you and all the other programmers do for Xubuntu. I was thinking of signing up as a tester, but I do not know I would be suitable, as I run a very stripped down version of Xubuntu. I have, though, download 14.04 point two daily-build and run it from a USB-memory-stick
<elfy> ecsooboontoo: well - as far as testing is concerned, if you can test things like that from usb's - that's good for us :)
<elfy> I'm sure people will be happy to see you appreciating what they do - I for one am not a coder at all :)
<ecsooboontoo> If I can clean out a spare HDD that I have, I will be able to install properly. The current HDD that I'm using has several versions of ?ubuntu on it, which is in a pretty sad state of affairs, mainly because it's trying use the same /home partition for all versions. 
<elfy> I've been there 
<elfy> I prefer now to use seperate partitions for data and symlinks - firefox and t-bird I just modify the config file 
<dkessel> Good evening. I just changed my xubuntu-docs PPA to point at the correct branch.
<Unit193> Howdy, dkessel.
<elfy> hello and cya dkessel 
<elfy> night all 
<dkessel> Now the build fails with validation errors in the Spanish translation
<dkessel> Night elfy
<dkessel> Hey Unit193 
<brainwash> bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu Utopic) "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> elfy: xubuntu-default-settings was patched, not xfce4-settings
<elky> pleia2: i just realised i didn't link you to that installer-not-showing bug yesterday for me-too-ing. it's bug 1419555
<ubottu> bug 1419555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "initial install/try window is not displayed on netbook screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419555
<brainwash> !info xubuntu-default-settings trusty-proposed
<ubottu> xubuntu-default-settings (source: xubuntu-default-settings): default settings for the Xubuntu desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 14.04.8 (trusty-proposed), package size 18 kB, installed size 208 kB
<pleia2> elky: oh yes! thanks, me-tooed :)
<brainwash> elky: the bug description is not clear. which install medium did you use?
<elky> usb. my netbook doesn't have a cd drive.
<pleia2> was created with usb-creator-gtk, same usb drive worked fine on other laptops
 * pleia2 makes note of that in bug
<elky> yeah i didn't know what you made them with :)
<brainwash> I meant that there is no hint about the iso file which was used for installation
<brainwash> there is the link to the tracker
<elky> i'm sure lyz will make note of what she used
<brainwash> not a big deal
<brainwash> I guess guess we should be worried about the actual bug :)
<elky> it's probably been there a while :P
<brainwash> fixing bugs in the installer usually takes some time
<pleia2> is the tracker link not sufficient?
<brainwash> yeah, but the reader needs to click on the link :o
<brainwash> :P
<brainwash> the first impression is that it's a bug with default ubuntu
<pleia2> ah, should bug titles include the distro?
<pleia2> I guess if ubuntu-bug was used to submit it would have all info in the bug text
<brainwash> yeah, that's odd
<elky> pleia2: lol that bug with the tracker and pasting the bug number isn't happening on my dell...
 * elky gets out the netbook
<pleia2> elky: dell netbook?
<elky> no, dell was the big laptop i had
<brainwash> can this be reproduced in a small wm window?
<brainwash> vm I mean
<brainwash> virtual machine
<pleia2> ah yeah, I think it's some kind of resolution issue with netbooks
<pleia2> brainwash: haven't tried! :)
<elky> brainwash: let me confirm on the original device first
<elky> wah i have 3 active pointing devices on my desk my brain hurts trying to get the correct one
<elky> pleia2: the bug number isn't disappearing today on the netbook
<pleia2> finicky tracker
<elky> yeah, i'm guessing my browser probably cached a corrupted js file or something
<elky> i did try clearing it yesterday but meh
<pleia2> canonical tends to put pretty aggressive (broken!) caching on a lot of their sites too, the iso tracker may be caught in that
<elky> only differnece on my end is a. network, b. i'm running off installed not live
<elky> and im doubting either of these make a difference
<elky> network _could_ but i'm going to assume gandi doesn't have ridiculous network filtering like the average corp'n or gov't office
<pleia2> yeah, I don't think they had anything weird going on there
<elky> i once worked in a gov't site where js files with x in the name were filtered.
<elky> we were using a js framework with x in its name
<elky> this resulted in amusing discussions with infra
<pleia2> haha
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-10
<elky> pleia2: brainwash: i'm currently downloading a plain ubuntu daily to check if it's xubuntu specific or not
<pleia2> thanks elky
<elky> i'll also update the ancient window size bug when i've finished that
<elky> if it's not, i guess i get to download all the flavors and see which ones fail
<pleia2> \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi: do you have a multi-monitor setup?  the screenshot branch doesn't do so well for me with 2 monitors
<bluesabre> just a white screen
<Unit193> bluesabre: That's a merge from brainwash, should put his name there I believe.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I saw it after pushing, corrected here https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/550
<Unit193> Hah, my bad.  Didn't get that message yet.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1415683
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1415683 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_file_icon_manager_metadata_changed:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call:g_cclosure_marshal_generic_va:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I added your patch to my install, it seems to work as far as I can tell
<bluesabre> are you aware of any specific triggers?
<bluesabre> elfy: light-locker 1.6 uploaded to -staging, shouldn't be much to test, other than if it works for you... ochosi would have more specifics
<Unit193> I take that back, it did come, spam ate it.
<elky> elfy: good news, the install/try screen showed up fine in a unity live usb. the bad news is that this means it's your problem :P
<elfy> elky: mmm - thanks ... not sure what that could be then 
<elfy> bluesabre: the different way we have for showing that ? ^^ bug 1419555
<ubottu> bug 1419555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "initial install/try window is not displayed on netbook screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419555
<elfy> bluesabre: and ack light locker
<rww> maybe xfwm's doing window management differently from compiz in some way that causes it to think displaying offscreen is a good idea?
<elfy> rww: I'd have no clue - thinking about it - we can test the difference - or those affected can :)
<elfy> elfy: pleia2 - can either of you reproduce it with the utopic installer? 
<elfy> oh good lord :|
<elfy> elky: ^^
<elky> :D
<elfy> probably a good think we're in wildly differing timezones ... 
<elky> not tried with utopic
<elfy> :)
<elky> i should invite elly here, for triple the fun
<elfy> we had issues with no wallpaper in utopic - changed the way that is dealt with in vivid 
<elfy> elky: LOL
<elky> elfy: it's midnight here, i'll set it to download overnight and test tomorrow morning
<elfy> that would be great - thanks :)
<elky> i'm rather glad i took a netbook rather than a laptop now :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I was just pleased a bunch of people did some testing for us ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: suggestion: let's skip the screenshot branch for this stable series and just go ahead and release what we have
<ochosi> bluesabre: (so basically do what you suggested before already ;))
<sidi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11513 <- what is the default Ubuntu fallback icon theme?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11513 in Panel "xfce4-panel: uses wrong icon names" [Normal,Assigned]
<sidi> also, generally speaking, if anyone in #xubuntu-devel has a bit of time to spare, now's an excellent time to help Xfce triage bugs / test patches / write patches, as we're aiming to release 4.12 very soon
<sidi> https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs is a good place to start
<sidi> (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7604 also needs testing, especially from people who have eyesight problems)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7604 in Clock "Analog clock displaying seconds is hard to read" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<brainwash> sidi: I guess it would help to release new point releases / rc candidates
<brainwash> which could be packaged and tested in debian/ubuntu
<brainwash> and elsewhere ofc
<Unit193> Xubuntu is the only one that runs with developer snapshots, Debian does have some in experimental at least.
<intherye> Hi all, is Vino the preferred way of Remote Desktop Sharing in Xubuntu? And furthermore, would Xubuntu be affected if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/1271358 gets fixed? (I.e. could Vino be still be configured with the GUI, if the dialog gets moved to unity-control-center?)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1271358 in vino (Ubuntu) "Update to 3.12" [Wishlist,In progress]
<Unit193> vino isn't used in Xubuntu, but if the preferences GUI is "dropped" then yes we wouldn't have a UI for it.
<intherye> I played around with Vino yesterday, and found that it's really comfortable to set up in Xubuntu with vino-preferences. Sad, if it could not be used anymore like that. Are there any alternatives?
<Pwnna> what's the easiest way to compile and use a new version of libxfce4ui?
<Pwnna> and be able to rollback?
<Pwnna> anyone around?
<Unit193> Noooope.
<Unit193> I'd personally package it, but /usr/local/ install should be safe enough.
<Pwnna> Unit193: how do you package it?
<Pwnna> checkinstall?
<eric_the_idiot> bluesabre, re https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1415683 Add an emblem to an icon on the desktop or removable drive?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1415683 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_file_icon_manager_metadata_changed:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call:g_cclosure_marshal_generic_va:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New]
<Pwnna> how do I check which version of libxfce4ui am i running?
<eric_the_idiot> the trace you posted showed a create event caused it
<eric_the_idiot> Pwnna, dpkg -s libxfce4ui ?
<eric_the_idiot> not sure what the syntax is exactly
<Pwnna> i did lsof -p <pid of xfce4-panel>
<Pwnna> i'm trying to replace libxfce4ui with my own version, but still have the option to roll back
<eric_the_idiot> oh ok
<Unit193> apt-cache policy <package>  generally.
<Pwnna> how do you build the packages for libxfce4ui even? I'm looking at things like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxfce4ui/4.11.1-2ubuntu1/+build/5844280 and getting pretty lost
<Pwnna> or can i just make install and then reinstall all those packages later
<elfy> bluesabre: did you forget you're setting the next meeting? 
<sidi> Pwnna, hey
<sidi> Pwnna, build it from git
<sidi> and build it into /usr/local
<sidi> keep the git tree around
<sidi> so you can sudo make uninstall later
<sidi> Pwnna, ping me if needing more precise instructions
<Unit193> sidi: What about trusty instructions?
<sidi> Unit193, i dont remember anymore the debian way
<sidi> just telling how i deal with this :p
<Unit193> sidi: Hah, bad joke.  12.04 LTS release was named 'precise', 14.04 codenamed 'trusty'. :P
<sidi> Unit193, now im laughing at the back of the classroom, fortunately the students didnt notice ;P
<pleia2> my favorite part of today so far was when elfy mixed up elfy with elky 
<pleia2> bluesabre and brainwash don't seem so bad now, do they? ;)
<elfy> pleia2: glad to have provided that moment of entertainment for you ;)
<pleia2> elfy: btw, I am sad to report that I didn't get to do any tests yesterday, too busy running around helping everyone else, 6 hours of "lyz, when you have a moment..."
<elfy> yep - I realised that :)
<elfy> no need for sad :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> also I don't know what day it is s/yesterday/Sunday
<pleia2> yesterday I sat around in a pile of exhauasted goo
<elky> pleia2: you did do tests, you confirmed my bug :D
<elfy> oh no :|
<hobgoblin> right ... 
<Unit193> Thankgoodness.
<pleia2> ah yes, I loaded up the iso on my netbook, just didn't *complete* a testcase :)
<elky> lol
<elky> it's something though!
<pleia2> indeed!
<elfy> that's enough of that 
<elky> loading utopic live on the netbook now
<elfy> fingers crossed that it works 
<elky> would be nice
<elfy> yes, it might help narrow the issue down
<elky> it works
<elfy> right
<elky> there's no panel or wallpaper as you mentioned before, but there is the try/install screen
<elky> i'll update the bug
<elfy> now I wonder if it would have worked when we had the black background instead of wallpaper
<elky> there's no panel either, so maybe the panel is "pushing" it out of the way?
<elfy> I am now in the awesome position of saying I just run QA for my sins - wouldn't know how to debug this at all :)
<Unit193> Trying something here, give me a sec.
<elfy> thanks 
<elfy> I'm obviously wondering the simple thing here - and whatever we did to deal with the black background is causing it 
<elky> that is the obvious conclusion
<elky> elfy: "wouldn't know how to debug this at all" ... loading up utopic was your idea, so you seem to have more of a clue than you remember ;)
<elfy> heh
<elfy> I guess so :)
<elky> next question is, is that bug targetting the correct package?
<elfy> ubiquity is right for the moment yep
<Unit193> Actually download slow, more than a sec.
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> elfy: the black background is fixed by starting up xfdesktop
<Unit193> elfy: And I can't actually reproduce it on my netbook...
<rww> what's its resolution?
<elfy> ali1234: didn't really expect it to be the cause - but worth a check 
<elfy> Unit193: ... 
<elky> Unit193: what size is your netbook?
<elky> Unit193: so when your desktop loads up, you have the try/install window visible already?
<Unit193> A crappy Acer Aspire One 722, 11.6.  And think I read that a bit off, lets see.
<elky> yeah 11.6 is going to have a better resolution than 1024x576 or whatever mine is
<elfy> elky but you didn't see the same with vivid ubuntu did you say? 
<elky> elfy: no the window appears, but it does take 10 minutes for my mouse cursor to appear there
<elky> pretty sure that's a different brand of lols though
<elfy> heh
<elky> (and i'm not kidding about 10m)
<elfy> at least you get it to boot - last time I booted ubuntu image I got big home folder fails 
<rww> elfy: yours is 1024x600 iirc
<rww> erm, elky
<elfy> :D
<rww> or not, nvm me
<elfy> you'll be ok shortly - my bouncer died, so when I crash shortly I'll be gone gone :)
<Unit193> Mine is actually better for a change. 0_o
<elfy> I'll read the logs in the morning ... 
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: if I add an emblem to an icon on the desktop, xfdesktop does not crash, and does not display the emblem unitl I F5 it
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, are you aware of the -core dist-upgrade problem?
<bluesabre> elfy: didn't forget, was thinking of when would be a good time
<bluesabre> also wondering why we never schedule on the weekends
<bluesabre> Unit193: I saw a mention of it, can you give me a gist of what it is?
<knome> bluesabre, no specific reason
<elty> let's have some fun
<elky> you'll make them cry
<knome> :D
<Unit193> elky: identify-msg meakes me happier now.
<elky> Unit193: i know what all those words mean individually...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so install the core iso or from mini and all is fine, time to upgrade to new release?  upgrade-manager will install xubuntu-desktop metapackage because xubuntu-default-settings is installed.
<bluesabre> ack
<bluesabre> dang release-upgrader
<bluesabre> any good ideas to resolve that?
<elky> none that would be appreciated :P
<Unit193> 1. Recommend The Debian Wayâ¢ to them.  2. Swap it out to point to -core, though this has downsides.  3. Some other hackery for it to choose what meta to select.
<Unit193> Pretty much, yep.
<Unit193> bluesabre: 3 also depends on if we switch it up so -desktop depends on -core, and is just a layer on top.
<bluesabre> the icing on the cake
<knome> soo... since when was elky interested about xubuntu? :) (welcome!)
<elky> knome: there was a bug jam in sf on the weekend
<bluesabre> maybe we have a use case for xubuntu-core-settings?
<elky> organised by pleia2 so the obvious happened
<knome> heh :)
<elky> knome: xubuntu has improved a lot since the last time i had it installed a few years back, i must say
<Unit193> bluesabre: Keeping in sync with desktop would be fun, and while it'd fix the upgrade problem it'd also mean we couldn't layer the seeds.
<knome> elky, definitely.. :)
<elky> doesn't feel like poor man's gnome anymore
<knome> (and i hope so)
<elky> which it used to
<Unit193> elky: Happen to know what version you're talking about?
<elky> Unit193: not a clue.
<knome> elky, don't tell him, it's a trap. he's going to set you up
<Unit193> heh, bummer.
<knome> (if you didn't know, i was the previous project lead)
<elky> it was definitely after xfce4 :P
<Unit193> 4.8 was decent enough, IIRC, and 4.10 was good.
<elky> "few" might have been an understatement
<Unit193> Figured you were talking back a few, but at the rate Xfce does releases... :P
<elky> i'm not sure the year had any 1's in it
<elky> s/'//
<Unit193> I'm sure I've still got a 8.x or 9.x alt install.
<knome> then you should probably blame somebody else than me ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any ideas on which way you might be thinking?
<elky> Unit193: yeah it was early 4
<bluesabre> Unit193: it could be a tweaked install in the same way xubuntu-live-settings is
<bluesabre> or perhaps xubuntu-default-settings depends on core-settings and sprinkles a bit on top
<elky> knome: though 4.2 was 10 years ago, so maybe not as early as i thought
<knome> elky, heh, that's ages ago.
<knome> i didn't even contribute to foss back then
<elky> yeah i have no idea what one i tried
<Unit193> bluesabre: Biggest change I could think of between them would be panel.  But as I said, the desktop seed then couldn't depend on core.
<knome> started using xubuntu/xfce in 2007
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anywho, that's the state of things right now.
<bluesabre> good point, that makes me want to do it like live-settings then
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<Unit193> FF "soon" too.
<knome> elky, sooo... sorry for pestering, but do you think this is just a temporary crush, or something better? :)
<elky> knome: lol i don't know. i've been using debian on my laptop for a few months now :P
<elky> what's the state of xfce in debian land?
<Unit193> 4.10.
<knome> elky, relatively good, they have an active maintainer
<knome> but yeah, not all the same stuff that we have
<elky> same feel as the ubuntu environment?
<elky> ah
<Unit193> I'd try to pull from Experimental if you can.
<knome> same feel? nope, xubuntu has a good load of customizations on top :)
<elky> i should look at some point. i'm not that happy with gnome shell
<Unit193> elky: Though if you're insane enough to try it, an upgrade from Xubuntu to Debian unstable goes pretty well.
<elky> i think i'd get a divorce for attempting that
<Unit193> Hah.  Though, it does turn out well in the end!  I've done it twice...
<knome> again, don't listen to Unit193...
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Good plan.  (To be fair, vbox and I thought for sure it'd fail.)
<elky> yeah that's probably the only circumstance i'd try it. i'd still get the mocking of a lifetime though
 * elky prepares to time how long it takes unity/ubuntu to give her a cursor
<elky> (xubuntu is fine, don't worry)
<elky> up to 6 minutes.
<elky> 9 minutes and waiting
<elky> and i just touched the touchpad and there's a cursor now
<elky> this is hilarious to me
<ali1234> i used to have a computer that wouldn't post unless you moved the mouse
<elky> this one was not showing a cursor for a very long time even with touching the touchpad yesterday
<elky> i'm basically just figuring out how to describe the issue now
<elky> this time i'll touch it every minute
<elky> and see if it appears sooner
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-11
 * bluesabre is not sure why mugshot is broken :\
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heya, I have a link for you about the whole core <=> desktop thing, http://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xubuntu-core.html
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Would you have time to upload the new cpufreq-plugin soon? All that's needed is a version bump
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, will review that
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: sure, will upload that tonight
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<bluesabre> cool to see progress on the appearance settings :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> it's working
<ochosi> but themes suuuuck :)
<ochosi> it might still need quite a bit of cleanup and review though until it can be merged
<bluesabre> alrighty, I'll take a look at it myself tonight and see if there is anything I can contribute
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<ochosi> i definitely need a few pointers (pun intended)
<bluesabre> :D
<lderan> :P
<bluesabre> lderan: wb!
<lderan> hello bluesabre :D
<bluesabre> gotta run though, bbl
<elfy> hi and bye bluesabre :)
<gbb> Hi, this is probably a very silly question, but... I've been following the QA testing tut and I have set up the VM and opened the iso image from within the VM dialogue.  If I install Ubuntu, it will only affect the VM and not my actual machine, right?  Or do I need to choose the 'Try Ubuntu' option instead?
<knome> gbb, if you're running it in a VM (eg. a window), then it'll only affect your virtual machine
<gbb> thanks :)
<ochosi> gbb: don't forget to report your results on the tracker ;)
<gbb> I'll try to.  Nice tut btw!
<knome> gbb, you can always ask for more help here; we don't want missing knowledge to stop you from contributing
<gbb> thanks, I will. Never used a VM before and didn't want to get 'unlucky'.
<knome> understandable
<Unit193> knome: Without +1/-1, I'm good with dat.
<knome> on the list? :P
<knome> bbl, hf
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, looking to do http://paste.openstack.org/show/DmamzKDWXVslDqIxYX8V/ it syncs core with desktop (drops a few deps to recommends), fixes order, and adds something of a formatting standard.
<ochosi> ali1234: quick question, are you planning to fix the remaining issues in orion's gtk3?
<ali1234> i don't know how to fix the rest :(
<ochosi> oh, hm :/
<ochosi> not sure we can ship it as is
<gbb> My VM has been stuck forever on booting today's ISO.  I put the detail on a blog here: http://gabrielas-toys.blogspot.ie/2015/02/xubuntu-testing-stuff-stuck-on-swap.html (I'm still trying to step through the tut, so not sure what to do how at this point ;-)
<elfy> gbb that looks to me like it is closing down - not booting
<elfy> try hitting any key and it should ask you to press enter to remove image and reboot
<elfy> but it it's hung - just shut down the vm - won't hurt it
<gbb> aha thanks, ye olde 'any key' did the trick.  
<elfy> :)
<dkessel> hmm is one of our spanish translators on this channel?
<dkessel> "us" being the xubuntu-docs package ;)
<Unit193> dkessel: And you're sure you're building for vivid?
<dkessel> Unit193: no :)
<Unit193> (Was the intent to?)
<dkessel> Unit193: heh... yeah i intended to. I am using the branch at lp:xubuntu-docs , which is in the "vivid" series and last updates by slickymaster on 2015-02-05
<Unit193> bzr clean and don't see any es validation errors.
<dkessel> Unit193: did you see the build log?
<dkessel> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/197138210/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.xubuntu-docs_15.04-201502042312~201502092059~ubuntu15.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
 * Unit193 scratches head.
<knome> Unit193, it's in the translators.xml file
<knome> would be nice to see that file at that point of time.
<Unit193> knome: I'm building in pbuilder now, will be able to.
<knome> great
<dkessel> thanks guys
<knome> wow, that's a whole lot of people who poked that translation
<knome> 17 including at least one who doesn't know spanish
<knome> that's more people than who contributed to the source language.
<Unit193> root@Sigma:~/xubuntu-docs-15.04# cat desktop-guide/es/translators.xml 
<Unit193> <itemizedlist>
<Unit193> </itemizedlist>
<Unit193> root@Sigma:~/xubuntu-docs-15.04# 
<knome> you fail
<knome> :)
<knome> why aren't there items?
<Unit193> No, you fail! :P
<Unit193> Remember?  Problem with something.
<knome> no?
<Noskcaj> Looks like we might be moving forward on getting gtk 3.16 in for release? Is there anything xubuntu is missing in terms of support for it?
<Unit193> Oh gosh, more breakage. >_<
<ochosi> Noskcaj: dah, theme-support? testing?
<ochosi> frankly, i'd strongly oppose the move to gtk3.16
<ochosi> one gtk3 version jump per cycle is enough
<Unit193> Fankly, I'd oppose 4.14...
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-quality have a call for testing out
<ochosi> larsu only just about finished patching up all lose ends for 3.14
<ochosi> since when?
<Noskcaj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2015-February/005841.html
<Noskcaj> today
<knome> Unit193, fankly?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: anyway, thanks for the heads up. i guess i'll test it and discuss it with the folks in u-desktop
<ochosi> elky: you've tried the 3.16 ppa already?
<knome> Unit193, pushed a small commit for -docs, watch out
<Unit193> knome: Ah crap.
<Unit193> ochosi: f not k
<ochosi> arrrr
<knome> why not k
<knome> :P
<ochosi> sorry elky 
<ochosi> elfy: you've tried the 3.16 ppa already?
<ochosi> el+tab-stop obviously isn't enough anymore these days... :'(
<knome> ochosi, i'm sure another ping makes for the accidental one.
<ochosi> yup, that's what i thought
<Unit193> ochosi: I use one letter. >_>
<elfy> the desktop one? running it currently with the shimmer themes ppa if that helps
<ochosi> yes, that helps
<elfy> good :)
<ochosi> so any circles that aren't entirely circular but elliptical? :D
<elfy> hah 
<elfy> you type faster than me :D
<ochosi> so no visual breakage or stuff?
<ochosi> (especially in evince, file-roller, calc etc)
<knome> as if elfy would notice 1px being off :P
<elfy> I see the errant scrollbar - but everything *looks* the same here to me 
<elfy> knome: late in for the joke then :D
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> if I typed faster ochosi would have missed it too :D
<knome> ;)=
<ochosi> yeah, knome isn't known to be fast (see "in development" wallpaper being stuck "in development" for months, ironically ;D)
<ochosi> hm, scrollbar
<knome> ochosi, it's actually just damn early for 16.04.
<elfy> oh nice - new wallpaper \o/ 
<ochosi> i guess that is something for larsu to fix
<knome> elfy, no, the new wallpaper i haven't even started working with :P
<elfy> ochosi: I actually only notice it in synaptic 
<elfy> knome: I know ;)
<ochosi> yeah, that one is gtk3 too now
<ochosi> so the scrollbar is missing?
<knome> just to prove my speed..
<ochosi> or broken?
<ochosi> good thing is that is not really our thing to fix (at least, likely)
<knome> brb
<elfy> ochosi: not completely broken - but if you stop *needing* it then - it disappears, then when you start scrolling again - it comes back
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> that could be a gtk3 feature
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/buVmOhJ.png
<elfy> no scrollbar 
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/1x5Mvlq.png
<elfy> after scrolling
<Unit193> Can you find it with a mouse?
<ochosi> so if you hover the edge of the listview, it appears?
<ochosi> (yeah, basically what Unit193 said)
<elfy> ochosi: no - you have to scroll, then the bar returns
<Unit193> >_<
<elfy> and "Some known issues which we'll try to fix for the release:"
<Unit193> Scumbag GNOME...
<elfy> "They hide completely when inactive, meaning that you don't know how far you've scrolled"
<elfy> from laney's mail about the ppa
<ochosi> Unit193: well, we all know which DE is the only one that really cares about mice!
<knome> ochosi, oh my
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2015-February/004631.html
<ochosi> bbiab
<dkessel> knome: if you tried to fix the translators list, you failed ;)
<knome> i didn't
<dkessel> well - then you didn't fail either
<Unit193> Oh he did, just in a different way.
<dkessel> heh
<knome> better way than the way Unit193 failed
<Unit193> knome: Heeey, it "works" just doesn't work. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: So, (software-properties-gtk) <=> software-properties-gtk, and xdg-utils <=> (xdg-utils)?
<gbb> I'm just about to figure out how to file a bug report, but, I'm not sure if what I found are actual bugs (as such).  Could someone take a look and let me know what, if anything to file?  Thanks :)  See http://apaste.info/0ve
<elfy> gbb: not got a lot of time currently, to check all of that - report it here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<gbb> ok, will do
<elfy> Please make sure to make the first line of what you write includes the testcase number 
<elky> report everything, let triage figure it out
<elfy> which is 
<elfy> 1301 :)
<elfy> elfy: I am triage more or less for manual testcases :)
<knome> gbb, looks good to me, testcase number (as elfy said) is ++
<gbb> thanks!  
<elfy> thank you ;)
<elfy> gbb: you going to report the test itself on the image tracker? 
<gbb> erm, I'm not sure.  that's what I was wondering, it's not broken as such, just not what was advertised.  Probably trivial, then again, one can never be sure.
 * elky chuckles at elfy talking to himself again
<Unit193> Mhmm, saw that.
<elky> i like it here, i think i'll stay :P
<elfy> I didn't ...
<elfy> elky: ha ha ha 
<knome> elky, yes, lot's of humiliating situations if you like that kind of humor
 * elky send hugs to elfy
 * gbb is suitably confused now (even more than before)
<knome> gbb, well i keep reading your nick as "gdb"...
<gbb> :-D
<Unit193> Same here.
<elfy> gbb: I tab complete nicks - it's not often I need el<something> so it looks like I keep talking to myself instead of elky 
<elky> gbb, if what you saw isn't matching the test case, and it's not actually break in functionality, the test case needs fixing
<gbb> ok.  it's just a variation I guess.  I'll 'bug' it.
<elfy> and THAT ^^ is something that causes issues - I have to change tracker fails when people fail an image because of a testcase bug 
<gbb> ok, not quite following (this is my first testing foray) --- do you want it bugged there or a seprate report then?
<elfy> gbb: we're talking about 2 things here, let's deal with them one by one
<elfy> do the bug report as I said - making sure to add the testcase number to it 
<elfy> because that's the only place the bug exists :)
<ochosi> Unit193: sry, just back now. what's that with the seed file again?
<gbb> elfy: ok. Will give that a go.
<elky> elfy: we hummed and hawed over whether to fail the image on sunday even.
<elfy> elky: because ? 
<elfy> I was intending to be about for your jam - but forgot you have silly times :D
<elky> because it was rather edge case
<elfy> I was not staying up until Monday :)
<knome> wait... we're releasing 1504, not 1410
<knome> oops
<elky> its ok, we did well if my screening of the new bugs list yesterday (looking for dupes) indicates anything
<elfy> elky: aah right - generally I watch 'our' results - and unfail things that aren't fails 
<Unit193> ochosi: I went with asking for forgiveness if you don't like it.  That's the biggest difference that I didn't touch, one depends on software-prop, the other deps on xdg-utils.
<elfy> so usually better to err on the side of bad than good as I don't check the passes :)
<elky> elfy: yeah, and it does completely prevent trying
<ochosi> Unit193: have you pushed it already or where would i look at the changes again?
<elky> well actually i didn't check that, tab first might have let try happen, but meh
<elfy> elky: oh one of those usb booting issues? 
<Unit193> ochosi: Next up, with someones ACK is to clean the blacklist too.  I pushed the other part already, it's just the software-properties-gtk and xdg-utils I wasn't sure which way was better to go.
<elky> yeah, the one i raised with the window  hiding
<elfy> elky: if you mean 'your' bug - then that's a fail in my opinion - you couldn't install 
<elky> we could, if we hit space it took us to the next screen
<elky> i did install on the netbook in spite of that bug
<elky> works well once you overcome broadcom
<ochosi> Unit193: tbh i think you know more about the seed file than me...
<elky> elfy: yes i am talking about bug 1419555
<ubottu> bug 1419555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "initial install/try window is not displayed on netbook screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419555
<elfy> yep - that's fail imo :)
<elfy> unless they add - You Might Have To Randomly Hit Keys To Proceed to the installer :)
<elky> yep and that's why we failed it
<elfy> indeed - generally I think that installer fails should be fairly self evident 
<elky> especially after lyz reproduced it on her different netbook
<elfy> yep
<elfy> gbb: how you getting on?
<gbb> slowly.  currently reading the instructions.  But should be submitted soon
<elfy> okey doke :)
<elfy> which instructions are you reading out of interest? 
<gbb> how to submit a bug,  plus cat decided to sidetrack me.  :>
<elfy> aah
<elfy> not seen how to submit a bug for a long time 
<gbb> ok, this is not what I expected.  I thought bugs need to be submitted seperatly and then the report needs to be written.  So, in that case, what is a bug number (as opposed to test case number)?
<elfy> gbb: ok - I'm a bit confused now
<gbb> jas, let me gather the link.
<elfy> what are you trying to do currently? report the testcase bug? 
<gbb> I got this page(http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds/89073/testcases/1301/results) , which has the report, and then there is a link that says 'submit a bug' which gets me here:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds/89073/buginstructions
<elfy> aah ok - seems you can only report bug against testcases when you visit the 'other' testcase 
<elfy> that's a bug - I'll report that :)
<elfy> all YOU need to do is go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<elfy> and complete the bug
<gbb> see why I was suspicious of the VM install not wiping my actual computer?  I am 'lucky' all too often =)
<gbb> I also had a bug when trying to login for the first time (will try to reproduce this later on too, I may just be fatfingered).  
<elfy> gbb: when you've done your testcase bug - ping me and we'll go through the tracker and it's bugs 
<gbb> ok, I just submitted it, nr. 1420983 (I grabbed that from the url, the page could do with the number being displayed (for the lazy))
<elfy> bug 1420983
<ubottu> bug 1420983 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Testcase instructions for test case 1301 do not match actual events" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1420983
<elfy> excellent - some time soon that will land in my mailbox 
<gbb> oh, now I see it.  small print!
<elfy> gbb: ok so now - the tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
<elfy> thats' where *we* report tests and can also link bugs we found 
<elfy> some bugs are already known and reported - others you might find 
<elfy> now *these* bugs are real ones rather than differences in what you might see against the testcase
 * gbb nods
<elfy> gbb: so other than the testcase not reading right to you - any other issues that you think are real ones? 
<gbb> The issue with the 'press enter' instructions vanishing at some point and it looking like it hangs when it's waiting for me to press enter.  Note I only have 2mb ram, so this is a slooooow operation, and I go away and do something else in the meanwhile, hence I missed it the first time
<elfy> aah yes - I'm fairly sure I have seen that reported before 
<elfy> that's not so much an install issue as a vm one 
<gbb> ok, the display didn't look too healthy, it was overlaying in a funny way
<gbb> so that's why i also suspected VM problems
<elfy> right - sometimes vm issues are useful to report - I think I must have reported 3 or 4 nasty things last cycle 
<elfy> but - did it reboot properly - and was installed? 
<gbb> yep, that all worked fine.  have yet to run it though.  (as in log in and so on)
<elfy> ok - so let's call that a pass then :)
<elfy> gbb: was this vivid from a daily?
<elfy> or something else? 
<gbb> ok, so I should submit the report as a pass.  Yes it was vivid from daily
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds
<elfy> find the xubuntu items at the bottom
<elfy> then click either 64 or 32 bit
<gbb> ok got there and added the hardware profile
<Unit193> bluesabre / ochosi: Please review changes to the seed: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.vivid/ (We can also add some more unity components if we'd like.)
<elfy> gbb: so assuming you've got to the right testcase, page down past the writing - right at the bottom you get option to fail/pass/in progress it  - then RIGHT at the bottom submit 
<ochosi> Unit193: i guess adding some common unity components might not be a bad idea. might help with stuff like the 14.04.2 mess in the future
<gbb> elfy: shipped!  Thank you for your patience :)
<elfy> gbb: \o/
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds/89073/testcases/1301/results
<elfy> right to the right hand side - do you see a pencil by the side of your entry there? 
<ochosi> nice work guys/gals!
<gbb> yep
<elfy> gbb: ok, so say that you wanted to report a bug, didn't have time right now - you could edit your result and put the bug in later 
<elfy> then update instead of submit appears at the bottom 
<elfy> ochosi: yep - nice to see people coming along and finding all this out :)
<gbb> ... or correct it? :>
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> sometimes you might find that someone like me has come along and changed your result
<elfy> this is what I was talking about earlier when people fail for the wrong reasons 
<gbb> nod, it's not easy to tell at first I guess.
<elfy> yep - as I said to elky - sometimes it's better to err on the side of fail than pass
<Unit193> ochosi: Alright, so *-control-center and unity-greeter.
<elfy> gbb: but as a general rule - a bug with a testcase is never going to be a reason to fail an image test
<gbb> maybe add another option, say 'beauty error'?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, sounds fair enough to me
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/zqREo6CkdolsOMdeVAX9
<gbb> sort of for when you don't know if it's a showstopper or not. To give the reviwer a headsup that this might just be spurious.
<ochosi> Unit193: that looks good to me!
<Unit193> Great!  Already pushed it. ;P
<elfy> gbb: that's kind of taken care of in the grand scheme of things
<elfy> gbb: say you find bug X and report it on the tracker and fail the test
<elfy> gbb: I could come along and say - that's not a fail, change it to a pass and also change the bug you reported to invalid or wishlist or something else 
<gbb> that's also true.  (the one bug tracker I've used before was bit more pedestrian than this)
<elfy> does that make sense to you? 
 * gbb nods
<elfy> :)
<elfy> anyway - awesome stuff - thanks a lot :)
<gbb> thank you too!  (that was fun)
<elfy> gbb: and this is in reference to you pointing a bug on the website "balloons> elfy, nice catch actually"
<elfy> elfy> someone I am talking to in #xubuntu-devel brought it to my attention :)
<elky> gbb: i believe "papercuts" is the term used for tiny things that detract from the product
<elfy> so - \o/ all round
<ochosi> Unit193: cool, i like the hands-on-ness ;)
<elfy> elky: yep 
<Unit193> ochosi: I like review and ACKs. :P
<elky> elfy: wasn't sure if it still was ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: But thanks, and 'welcome.
<ochosi> Unit193: hehe
<ochosi> same same
<gbb> heh.  now to see if I can reproduce the longin hiccup (it eventually worked, but not before confusing me by claiming repeatedly it's a bug.  I think it's because it asked me for my name and then choked on two words)  -- it did work eventually, but it's not clear why
<gbb> name != username 
<knome> gbb, it's probably the known bug that stops you from logging in until your ubuntu SSO account is linked with a launchpad one
<gbb> ah, ok.  I guess I had better find a new bug then to entertain me.  Thanks all!
<elfy> knome: no - they've done tracker report ok 
<gbb> that's the bug page I got when trying to login.  Then I clicked on some other link (not sure which by now) and it let me in.  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/user/password?name=Gabriela%20Gibson
<gbb> I think the misunderstanding was asking me for my name, instead of what username I want too
<elfy> oh that's SSO :|
<elfy> I really hate SSO :|
<knome> elfy, as i said, gbb probably just hit the very known bug
<gbb> so now my username is gabriela-gibson (which is ok) but unplanned
<knome> the good part is... you can't hit that twice.
<knome> gbb, actually you can change that when you log in to launchpad
<gbb> yeah, but it might make it tought to get in, I actually had to be persistent here.  I was already trying to figure out where to send mail for help
<knome> gbb, i wrote a full blog article on this: http://open.knome.fi/2014/02/23/logging-in-with-ubuntu-one/
<knome> gbb, basically go to https://launchpad.net/~/+edit, log in and change the "name" (which is actually the "username" for SSO)
<knome> (or if you are logged in, then don't log in again...)
<gbb> eh, I don't mind, I use my real name for coding anyway (have a blog with it) but this is a bit of a showstopper for newbies.  if you cannot log in, you cannot play!
<knome> we know
<gbb> that ancient!  Maybe get your link posted on the log in page till that's fixed? People tend to give up very easily normally, which is a pity.
<knome> gbb, well seriously speaking, canonical should just fix that bug.
 * gbb hands knome an extra 'n' to make a precise cannonball
<knome> hah
<knome> ;)
<knome> you should join #xubuntu-offtopic where all the rants happen :P
<gbb> better not.  or they'll fire me instead :P
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-12
<Unit193> bluesabre: You hitting up the artwork stuff soon?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^ git tag?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Actually meant with the deps.
<bluesabre> ah, oh right
<Unit193> (Related to seed, stuff that I'm working on.)
<bluesabre> basically, making more things depends?
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, what needs a tag again?
<bluesabre> greybird has an ubiquity panel, and I think 5ish commits since last tag, not sure about how soon we need that
<ochosi> ok, will quickly do a release
<ochosi> gimme a minute
<Unit193> bluesabre: xubunt-artwork has very little in it, basically turning that into a meta to depend upon plymouth-* and maybe the icon theme as well?
<Unit193> Hmm, shimmer-themes too or not?
<knome> ochosi, so what do you think about the dev wall? should we push it now?
<knome> ochosi, i pretty consider it done if you like the last version
<ochosi> the greyscale version?
<knome> yeah
<knome> well, the almost greyscale
<knome> maybe you should see it on a decent monitor
<ochosi> ah, it's not entirely greyscale, as i see now on my eizo :D
<ochosi> very nice
<ochosi> small banding issues
<knome> sure
<ochosi> but other than that, great
<knome> but... those are hard to tackle
<ochosi> actually the banding is quite pronounced even
<knome> without making it more complex
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<knome> and with such a small colorspace
<bluesabre> sounds appropriate for a dev wallpaper
<knome> i think it's good
<Unit193> bluesabre: Basically, move all recommends to deps.
<knome> ochosi, so should i point bluesabre to it?
<bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, that's good for me
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.5.2
<ochosi> knome: go ahead!
<bluesabre> Unit193: anything else to add for this release? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/vivid/revision/274
<bluesabre> grabbing a git snapshot of the icon theme for good measure
<bluesabre> er, not
<bluesabre> ochosi, want to work your magic to update the icons ^ ?
<knome> bbl. ochosi, ping me tomorrow (about website front art)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure, I'll do a release tomorrow when ochosi uploads the icons
<Unit193> Then I can fix the seed. \o/
<bluesabre> woohoo
<Unit193> bluesabre: Next up, remove all core components from desktop and depend on core from there.
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, core depends on xdg-utils and recommends software-properties-gtk, while desktop depends on software-prop, and recommends xdg-utils.
<bluesabre> pretty sure desktop should actually depend on xdg-utils
<bluesabre> or let core depend on it like you have there and drop the rec from desktop
<Unit193> So, keep it how core has, great.  Thanks.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> I'll leave this portion to you, but ping me if you need any input :)
<Unit193> Hah, you sure you don't want to mess with it? :D
<Unit193> Mark lp 1414455 invalid? :P  lp 1355136 might be important, sir lead dev.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1414455 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Consider adding back usb-creator-gtk" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1355136 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355136
<bluesabre> hm, indeed
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to go ahead and add that driver to the seed, we'll follow in big brother ubuntu's steps on that one
<Unit193> As krytarik pointed out, it is inherited from platform.vivid.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> in that case, want to mark it as fixed?
<Unit193> :3
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1355136/comments/8 so you going to reject usb-creator-gtk now? ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1355136 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "Add recommends printer-driver-brlaser package in -desktop installations" [High,Confirmed]
<Unit193> (That view doesn't show me marking as fixed release, as utopic has it.)
<bluesabre> Needs a bug supervisor, can't change it to wontfix
<bluesabre> or importance to wishlist
 * bluesabre needs more powers
<bluesabre> radioactive spiders anywhere?
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, did you upload 'Tn9pkL' in your last meta upload? :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: And, nice. :D
<bluesabre> if I did, it was an accident or the germinate script throwing up
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> it was micah
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xubuntu-meta/vivid/revision/202
<bluesabre> can be safely dropped ;)
<Unit193> Hah, wow.
<Unit193> Yeah, noticed. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: the seed is looking all tidy now, nice!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have more pending, here.
<Unit193> And, thanks!
<bluesabre> tired now, heading to bed. bbl
<Unit193> Awwh, and I was about to have two pastebins for you.  Oh well.
<Unit193> Good work today.
<bluesabre> Unit193: go ahead, I can review quickly
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/aPr3yg0vSbkMw8Zb90Jb - http://paste.openstack.org/show/ZrF4dEKz6CO2nFaNba6O
<Unit193> d/changelog has the most interesting bits (this isn't to sponsor.)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/PkV8p06H7UUk3AQ4prjh is the second one with diff syntax.
<bluesabre> xubuntu-core listed twice line 510 of your diff
<bluesabre> and each time after that
<bluesabre> in desktop-amd64, etc
<bluesabre> other than that, wow
<Unit193> Ah, likely because core and desktop depend on in, we can drop it in desktop then.
<Unit193> So it all seems to pull together just great. \o/
<Unit193> ali1234: http://paste.openstack.org/show/3PW86uyBMpXr5AxEVpm1/ is the stats I can gather, not sure how accurate they are though.  Screenshooter doesn't have 1K, but some do.
<ochosi> quote: Laney$ larsu: I think we're probably sticking with 3.14 anyway (per the meeting), so not super important to fix right now
<ochosi> so potentially no gtk3.16 for 15.04
<knome> ochosi, that would be considerate
<gbb> elfy: sorry, but I can't try bug 1421157 in a boot sequence outside of a VM --- I have no USB stick or burnable CDs to hand.
<ubottu> bug 1421157 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test case 1303 -- cannot create /home/ubuntu/.config/nautilus" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421157
<elfy> gbb: you misunderstand - I marked that invalid as that is a real bug - it's not a testcase bug
<elfy> what you have seen I've seen too
<elfy> you created a bug against testcases :)
<elfy> I noted the bug number in comment 
<elfy> that said - we're not interested in this channel about Ubuntu bugs generally 
<gbb> oh duh.  :-D  no I meant that I used test case # and it failed.  
<elfy> only when there is a common issue 
<elfy> yea - you just mark that as a fail in the tracker - but against Ubuntu not Xubuntu :)
<gbb> actually I tried that, but it then claimed it's archived.  Maybe it was archived in the meanwhile.
<elfy> yea that happens - you're looking and the clock ticks and then it's archived :D
<knome> gbb, daily builds are archived daily :)
 * gbb grins sheepishly
<elfy> gbb: general other channels for testing people are #ubuntu-quality and #ubuntu+1
<knome> gbb, BA-A-A-AAAA!
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> ok, i'm off to meet the wife and go some grocery shopping
<knome> see you all later
<elfy> cya 
<gbb> elfy: About test cases: I'm wasn't clear what the difference between 'entire disk' and 'autosize' is. (I'm guessing autosize expects to co-exist with another OS?) Could there be a little extra blurb on top of the test case to explain this?  I think perhaps my test case bug about autosize may have been wrong, since I think I did an entire disk test there if I understand this correctly.
<elfy> gbb: can we take that discussion to -quality please :)
<Akusari> Hi :-)
<ochosi> hi Akusari 
<Akusari> I just want to say thanks for xubuntu at all! I love it and use it every day :-)
<genii> Akusari: I'm sure the devs appreciate hearing that :)
<Akusari> I wrote some mails on xdev list about iso sizing. I hope i wasn't to hard with my arguments :-/
<Akusari> Ah, yes, i'm Daniel Mehrmann. :-)
<ochosi> thanks Akusari, that's nice to hear
<Akusari> And i did some iso testing. That was fun too btw 
<elfy> thanks :)
<Akusari> So, i hope i can give something back :-)
<Akusari> I'm asking because after my last mail yesterday there was no respone on the iso sizing topic
<elfy> you'll not have stopped it 
<Akusari> So, i fear i was a little bit to hard in my wording
<Akusari> good :)
<Akusari> my engish isn't so good, that a problem with difficult technical topics
<Akusari> but i'm working on it and daily practise is the best ;-)
<elfy> :)
<Akusari> However, i'd like to do more testing for xubuntu in the future and maybe other work. We'll see 
<Akusari> :-)
<ochosi> Akusari: generally feel free to hang out here then
<Akusari> cool 
<ochosi> testers are much needed, so welcome aboard!
<elfy> well testing is available everyday - more or less all year long
<Akusari> yeah, mostly i want to do virtual tests if it's okay. (like vmware player) I guess on apps tests that should be no problem. Installing tests might be a bit more difficult
<elfy> not particularly
<elfy> hardware install tests are *better* but smoketesting dailies in vm's is fine 
<elfy> and who can constantly fiddle about with hardware ;)
<Akusari> Thats my problem. I have two systems: My laptop and my pc. both running on xubuntu 14.04 lts of course and needs to be stable 
<elfy> yep - totally normal, vm tests are good :)
<Akusari> :-)
<Akusari> I have experince with Linux since 1996. My first system was a SuSE 5.0 with a 2.0.28 kernel :-)
<Akusari> But i'm not using it daily manner so long.
<Akusari> I switch from Windows to Linux 2 years ago 
<Akusari> Before that time linux was running on vm's :-)
<Akusari> i was working on gnu projects some years ago (FSF-member as well). So maybe some lines of code are still installed on your systems :-P However, it's a question of time always. ;-)
<Akusari> Today, i don't have so much time any longer . But i think testing tasks will work anyway :-)
<Akusari> @Elfy You'll write a mail if the next iso testing comes up ?
<meetingology> Akusari: Error: "Elfy" is not a valid command.
<elfy> Akusari: if you're on the dev list you will see things from me :)
<elfy> trusty point 2 should be back on the table soon 
<Akusari> sounds nice :)
<Akusari> ok
<brainwash> hi elfy 
<brainwash> any news regarding the keyboard shortcuts SRU?
<brainwash> bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in Xfwm4 "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> you wanted to verify the fix, right?
<elfy> brainwash: I have successfully killed all my logs - but I am sure my last comment to you was that I can't verify it as I don't see the bug
<brainwash> elfy: :/
<brainwash> if no one from the subscribers can test and verify it, then there is no need to get the fix in for 14.04.2
<Akusari> I need to go....bye bye all :-)
<elfy> brainwash: I guess so 
<brainwash> was/is parole able to play audio web streams properly?
<brainwash> it somehow hangs while loading one and crashes on exit
<brainwash> in vivid
<brainwash> bluesabre: ^
<brainwash> well, I blame gstreamer
<ochosi> brainwash: link to stream?
<brainwash> ochosi: http://jungletrain.net/128kbps.m3u
<ochosi> lol, parole just segfaulted
<ochosi> (without your stream)
<brainwash> did you open parole by clicking on the link?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> as i said, without your stream
<brainwash> heh :D
<ochosi> i used it 30min ago though
<ochosi> so that's a bit surprising
<elfy> if I open parole - then open location - it want's to install text/uri-list-decoder
<elfy> I saw fail to play and then hang 
<ochosi> i guess you need some gstreamer codec
<ochosi> codec/plugin
<elfy> required plugin could not be found ... 
<brainwash> xubuntu -extras?
<elfy> I love that :D
<elfy> brainwash: do you think I'd not have that installed :p
<brainwash> so.. -extras is incomplete?
<elfy> no idea
<elfy> anyway - off for a while now
<brainwash> crash dump upload is slow (big file)
<ochosi> i have the same problem elfy does btw
<ochosi> not sure what package is needed for this steram
<ochosi> stream
<ranu> I downloaded the xubuntu-extras and it did just right
<brainwash> ochosi: gst-launch tells me the same thing
<brainwash> missing plugin
<ochosi> right, then it's not a parole bug i guess
<brainwash> but parole is able to play it (after hanging for 10 sec)
<ochosi> hm, "yay parole!" i guess..? 
<brainwash> well, it should not crash on exit
<brainwash> I uploaded the crash
<brainwash> does parole use some fallback solution to play media files?
<ochosi> no
<brainwash> uhm, wrong question
<brainwash> fallback parser for playlists? :)
<brainwash> It seems like only the plugin for uri-lists is missing 
<brainwash> totem player works fine
<ochosi> sorry, gotta do some other work now, bbl
<brainwash> ok, cya
<flexiondotorg_> Hi
<flexiondotorg_> Are the xubuntu team aiming to get lightdm-gtk-settings into the official archive for 15.04?
<flexiondotorg_> I ask because I've tested it in Ubuntu MATE and we also like to take advantage of it.
<flexiondotorg_> Should I request an upload to the official archive from my sponsor or do Xubuntu already have plans?
<flexiondotorg_> ali1234, holstein, bluesabre ^^^^
<ali1234> i know nothing about packaging, sorry
<ali1234> i just fix the code
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: yes, it's planned. at the moment we need to add support for the latest greeter-features still
<ochosi> but help is always welcome
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, What features?
<flexiondotorg_> Are you going to get the current version uploaded even though it may be incomplete.
<flexiondotorg_> It does work very very.
<flexiondotorg_> well
<ochosi> good to hear :)
<ochosi> phew, what features... good question, i've lost track of the greeter a bit, it's been a while since i've been actively working on it
<ochosi> but i know that there were some that the settings didn't reflect yet
<ochosi> but wrt packaging, bluesabre should know best (he might be around ~3-4hrs from now)
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: ^
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, So it is packaged.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it is packaged, just not yet in the default repos, i think
<flexiondotorg_> You PPA works and I've borrowed your recipe to build them in my PPA.
<ochosi> and not in debian
<flexiondotorg_> I would love to re-use your work in Ubuntu MATE and also contribute back.
<flexiondotorg_> I would say, even if incomplete, the tool is very useful now. I would like to see it in the official archive for 15.04.
<flexiondotorg_> But, I don't want to get sponsorship to upload it to the official archive if that is not what Xubuntu wish.
<flexiondotorg_> I'm looking for your agreement basically ð
<ochosi> oh sure, the general agreement is there
<ochosi> there even is a work-item on our features blueprint for that, iirc
<ochosi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-features
<ochosi> anyway, i suggest you talk to bluesabre and see what he says, just to avoid duplicating the effort
<ochosi> and i generally welcome all cooperations with mate btw :)
<ochosi> i sometimes even borrow some of your codebase for xfce projects ;)
<knome> ochosi, we could also create an ISO that only shipped the libreoffice packages (eg. not the xubuntu/ubuntu core) as a repository.
<knome> that might be interesting for other flavors as well
<ochosi> uhm, LO-OS?
<knome> no
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> just the libreoffice packages
<knome> eg. no live-cd, nothing runable
<knome> just a local repository for those packages
<ochosi> yeah, something like that would be more up my alley than shipping a desktop file that points to software-center...
<knome> just like adding a PPA, except you'd add a repository taht is a disc
 * elfy personally thinks that what we should really be doing is working these things out over a cycle or two ready for 16.04
<knome> you can upgrade packages that way already afaik
<elfy> I don't see a need for a mad rush for any of it 
<knome> nope
<knome> but i think it's good to go throgh all the discussion now
<elfy> yea 
<knome> than say "we'll think about it later"
<ochosi> yeah, actually i expected that thread on the ML to contain many more enthusiastic endorsements of LO
<elfy> except I've no idea what *all* the strings to this discussion are anymore :D
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> ochosi: possibly people have learnt 
<knome> i was actually thinking that earlier (like when we fought with fitting a CD) already
<ochosi> elfy: haha, you can't be serious :D
<elfy> no - not really :p
<knome> people? learnt?
<ochosi> anywho, as i said a few mins ago in -ot, i'm generally open to any of the options mentioned so far
<ochosi> there are obviously certain benefits of shipping LO by default
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> but also backdraws
<ochosi> so hm, i think either way we'll please some and annoy others
<elfy> yep - ofc
<knome> i think a launcher/quick install shortcut is a bit cheap
<ochosi> yeah, that is the option that least appeals to me
<ochosi> especially because you cannot easily get rid of that anymore
<knome> that makes the OS feel like, "well i installed this system and now it tells me it's not complete"
<ochosi> i'd rather have a welcome dialog
<ochosi> but that again is a very different story
<elfy> doesn't appeal to me in the slightest - just as well have a blog post saying you install things like this as that
<knome> unless we put that in a package that conflicted with libreoffice ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, good idea actually ;)
<knome> though i'm not sure if that would remove libreoffice on upgrade
<ochosi> but still, it remains cheap
<elfy> and would we install all of LO or just the direct replacements for the other two
<knome> Ã¡ la abiword being installed on upgrade unless you rip off the default settings package
<knome> elfy, probably just the two replacements
<ochosi> yeah, probably just that
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> i mean getting rid of abiword would sort of be worth it...
<ochosi> gnumeric seems a lot more useful
<knome> but otoh, at that point, when we've pulled in the core, it is much more intriguing to push in impress too..
<ochosi> or at least more stable
<ochosi> yeah, impress would be the tempting
<knome> from my point of view, simply not shipping any would be the best option
<ochosi> and in itself probably not too big
<ochosi> but we should check the numbers for those packages
<knome> but that's not the perfect solution for most
<knome> which is where the LO repository CD would come in
<elfy> conundrum for sure 
<knome> and that would basically mitigate the offline problem...
<ochosi> Unit193: could you check the size of LO with writer, calc and impress on the iso?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i like that option
<knome> and if we did that, should drop gimp too, and put that in the "office addon" disc
<Unit193> ochosi: 1.1G iso.
<elfy> knome: I think that offline is a red herring - we don't care about it for anything else
<ochosi> Unit193: so how much of it is LO?
<knome> elfy, we are describing apt-offline in the docs
<elfy> so? 
<knome> well we "care" about it
<ochosi> knome: we could also add another meta package xubuntu-office or whatever, that pulls in those things
<elfy> if we're going to base what we ship on something that's described in docs ... 
<knome> ochosi, why another meta, there are metapackages for LO already..
<knome> ochosi, not everybody who wants LO wants gimp
<elfy> knome: we might *care* 
<ochosi> a bit like xubuntu-restricted-extras
<knome> there's no common denominator for LO and gimp
<knome> except that "they're big and we'd rather not ship them"
<ochosi> haha
<knome> xubuntu-too-big-for-ISO
<ochosi> "we like them but they're too big"
<knome> xubuntu-fat-boys
<ochosi> lol
<knome> well yeah
<knome> i don't think another metapackage is solving anything
<knome> it'll just be confusing.
<Unit193> ochosi: 283MB for LO, minus 80MB to get rid of abiword/gnumeric, but all pre-squashfs.
<knome> THEORETICALLY...
<elfy> from a purely cosmetic and very personal pov - when I was looking at xubuntu in 2007-10 I expected to see things like gnumeric/abiword
<knome> if we decide to drop office stuff and gimp
<knome> maybe we should drop thunderbird too
<ochosi> elfy: yeah
<elfy> looking at what it *looks* like now - I'd not expect to see them
<knome> not everybody uses an email client..
<ochosi> some people only use the terminal
<knome> otoh, a web browser is a very common app
<knome> i guess same with music players...
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, so an additional ~200mb minus squashfs compression?
<knome> and it would get this never-ending debate about the best player to an end
<elfy> mail the list and ask how many people use a mail client - get some data
<ochosi> i didn't hear any debates about that recently
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah.
<ochosi> knome: let's not get too bulimic
<Unit193> Oooh, since we're dropping everything, lets remove USC! :D
<ochosi> on a related note, i'll prep myself some dinner now :)
<elfy> knome: the best player is the one *you* use 
<elfy> Unit193: and bring back something useful 
<knome> https://www.campaignmonitor.com/resources/will-it-work/email-clients/
<elfy> knome: and I didn't mena knome I meant whoever was using it btw :D
<knome> elfy, AWWH!
<Unit193> elfy: Sounded like you meant knome, yep.
<rww> Unit193: would let you remove about 100000 python depends, if i recall correctly :P
<elfy> knome: yea but people don't use xubuntu on phones anyway - pointless :)
<knome> ochosi, i'm just talking theoretically...
<Unit193> rww: Hah, there abouts. :P
<ochosi> knome: i was being very practical and realistic about dinner otoh
<elfy> Unit193: yea I read it and thought it did too afterwards :)
<ochosi> catch y'all a bit later ;)
<elfy> cya in a bit 
<knome> hah, bon appetit
<elfy> knome: oh - re meeting 14:30 Saturday - should be ok I think, but tight for me 
<knome> elfy, what's better then?
<elfy> little bit earlier would help - 13:30 
<knome> i'll try to :)
<elfy> some time between 1330 and 1430 perhaps :D
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm probably around at that time anyway... just ping me
<elfy> ok 
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Back. Just read the backlog. Thanks for the agreement. Glad MATE has helped XFCE. I'll try and catch bluesabre tomorrow ð
<elfy> hi flexiondotorg_ - nice to see you floating about still from time to time :)
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Hi
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, There is a good deal of crossover between MATE and XFCE. And you guys have been at this far longer than I ð
<elfy> they've been at it longer than me - I'm just the team groaner :D
<elfy> I mean QA lead
<knome> flexiondotorg_, your smilies - or whatever those are at the end of your lines - aren't showing up here..
<flexiondotorg_> You need a unicode font to see them. The Ubuntu Mono renders them.
<Unit193> knome: Do you have a proper terminal and font?
<Unit193> flexiondotorg_: Picked them up from popey, didn't you?
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, I need to find a QA lead.
<knome> Unit193, proper enough to know i don't need to see those ;)
<flexiondotorg_> Unit193, No actually. He uses a different set. I got the ones I use from some of the other devs on #mate-dev
<elfy> flexiondotorg_: well while I am spoken for - once you are official, if your lead wants some help with the QA tracker - happy to help them
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Pushing hard to get the builds going for 15.04, might still make it.
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, If I get that far could you orientate me with the QA tracker?
<elfy> of course :)
 * knome hides meanwhile...
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'd not ever say knome can help you with the tracker - that would be completely unfair
<knome> haha
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Thanks.
<elfy> welcome :)
<elfy> ochosi: btw - given that -desktop have reversed direction on gtk3.whatever I have now purged that ppa - back to normal (ish)
<ochosi> yup, i'm relieved we won't have to deal with another transition
<elfy> I thought you might - I was waiting for our mail to weigh in on again :)
<ochosi> hehe
<andrzejr> Guys, I was just having "fun" setting up bluetooth audio device. It works but not with the tools that the user would try first
<ochosi> never tried that before tbh
<andrzejr> indicator-bluetooth-service appears to work at first (it connects to the device) but ultimately it had to be killed to enable the sound output.
<andrzejr> also, it wants to open gnome-control-center rather than unity-control-center which is far more useful in xubuntu
<ochosi> there are two potential bluetooth indicators
<ochosi> one is blueman, the other is indicator-bluetooth
<ochosi> blueman works ok without gnome depends, indicator-bluetooth wants all sorts of gnome stuff
<ochosi> (in my xp)
<andrzejr> blueman is the one that works. indicator-bluetooth prevents it from working.
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, blueman is being developed by the MATE devs. Well, the lead is not MATE but they other contributors are all from MATE.
<ochosi> yeah, blueman has its own indicator
<andrzejr> had to install pulseaudio-module-bluetooth first
<flexiondotorg_> We've been deliberate in not make Blueman MATE only.
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: i've been in touch with them for some issues, very nice folks
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, ð
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, elfy What was the earlier comments about GTK3 transition?
<andrzejr> also, which sound config tool should I use? pavucontrol or unity-control-center->sound tab?
<ochosi> andrzejr: xubuntu ships pavucontrol, not sure it's still maintained though
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: the desktop team considered to upgrade to 3.16 for 15.04
<ochosi> but seemingly decided to stick to 3.14
<flexiondotorg_> Phew.
<flexiondotorg_> I've still got some 3.14 wrinkles to deal with.
<ochosi> yeah, that's what we said :)
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Guess you've been struggle to keep up with the GTK3 breakage with every release just as we have then?
<ochosi> ofc
<elfy> flexiondotorg_: not only that - but his QA lead has issues with circularity and old eyes ... 
<elfy> yea that looks fine to me ochosi ... 
<elfy> but it's square !!!
<ochosi> lol
<elfy> I'm honest :D
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Any chance you might SRU LP 1302963?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302963 in parsedatetime (Ubuntu) "Calendar() class can not be initialized" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302963
<Unit193> bluesabre, Logan: Thoughts on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193/XubuntuPackageset ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good to me
<Unit193> Pssst, you want to edit it? :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-13
<bluesabre> I think it's fine as-is, but wait for input from logan too
<Logan> don't see any issues
<ochosi> wb Logan 
<Logan> thanks ochosi :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heh, want to endorse? :P
<bluesabre> ofc, then we can make you do more work
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> :3
<bluesabre> I'll write up something meaningful sometime soon
 * bluesabre adds a trello task to do so
<ochosi> Unit193: "I am a*n* Xubuntu.." ?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Danke!
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes.
<ochosi> hm, strange, why the n? i thought that only precedes words that start with vowels?
<ali1234> because some people pronounce it like ex-ubuntu
<Unit193> ochosi: Hah, whoops.  So if you say the name of the OS properly, you're right.  If you say it how I do, I am right. :P
<Unit193> ^
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> ah, hehe
<bluesabre> zooboontoo life
<ochosi> yup, in fact i also say zoobooontoo
<Unit193> You guys all live in a zoo.
<ochosi> in german it would be something like ksubuntu
<ochosi> that's where we belong
<ochosi> anyway, night everyone
<knome> ochosi, ja, the german way++
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<Unit193> But yes, all endorsements welcome!
<Noskcaj> Unit193, The packageset application looks good, although i'll be upset if you get it before i do (first applied this time last year)
<Unit193> So I shouldn't go for it? ;)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Also, I pinged/keep pinging you about that one bug because I'm maybe considering a SRU that depends on it.
<Noskcaj> The system favours people with normal timezones
<Unit193> Too bad I don't actually follow my own timezone. :P
<Noskcaj> I'll look into the bug over the weekend. I've got a few MIRs that i need to push through first
<Unit193> Oh, fun.
<Noskcaj> Maybe take a few random sync or merges to get more people who can vouch for your quality of work if you can
<Noskcaj> and yes, fun
<Unit193> knome: Hey, so we do have translations for xubuntu-docs (and seems even now people are still translating it?), but don't have and translated version on docs.xubuntu.org.  Is there a reason for this?  Do we like English speakers better? ;)  Can we upload translated versions?
<Unit193> knome: Also, can we lower translation to 70%
<Unit193> ?
<Unit193> Sure, some will be English, but at that rate it 1. Means the user can read some of it, if nothing more than the gist.  2. Some may be motivated to translate it.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/parsedatetime/pyicu-fixes
<Noskcaj> I'm uploading a test build to ppa:noskcaj/build and will do the paperwork part this weekend if you don't
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> knome: Not in the package though, more on the website?  I know we've already talked about this before, just happened to come up.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Have a sec?
<Unit193> He's not on and shouldn't be for a couple hours yet.
<flexiondotorg_> Unit193, Thanks.
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: is it about the greeter?
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Yep.
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, It seems MOTU/sponsors are busy.
<ochosi> i've briefly talked to bluesabre about the greeter yesterday and a new release is underway
<ochosi> as soon as that is out, he'll also upload it to the repos
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Brilliant ð
<flexiondotorg_> So, you think it will land in 15.04?
<ochosi> yup, fosho
<flexiondotorg_> Excellent!
<slickymasterWork> knome, Unit193, ftr I would be +1 in lowering the translation minimum to 70%~
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, I'm scoping a GSoC 2015 project for MATE to integrate with KDEConnect.
<ochosi> oh nice
<ochosi> that sounds interesting
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, As usual, if we pull this off then XFCE can benefit.
<ochosi> so you plan on doing a sort of KDEConnect in gtk2?
<flexiondotorg_> Because, although our panel applet will be MATE. The KDEConnect reworking to decouple from KDE/Qt and provide GTK interfaces will be reusable.
<ochosi> mhm, nice
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Well I am going to contact the KDEConnect team later to see what they think of our idea.
<ochosi> you could also do an indicator for that
<ochosi> that way we could share the panel applet across (some) desktops
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Ideally we can piggy back on KDEConnect and add GTK2/3 interfaces.
<Unit193> ochosi: We're Xfce, so a panel plugin! :P
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we're Xfce, so we're low on manpower ;)
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Heh, last time you didn't think so as much, great to hear you've changed your mind!
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, There is a KDEConnect Indicator made with GTK but it pulls in most of kdebase and kdelibs.
<Unit193> ochosi: Also, did you see the wiki I linked to?
<slickymasterWork> well, for one it would be a way of possibly having some more shipped translations Unit193
<ochosi> flexiondotorg_: yeah, i read about that. so maybe it can be made to work without the kdebase
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure, link?
<ochosi> or is it the wiki with stuff bluesabre should do? :)
<Unit193> No, packageset app.
<elfy> I saw that - good luck Unit193 :)
<slickymasterWork> +1 on that Unit193 
<ochosi> ah, sure
<Unit193> I need endorsements, but community comments won't hurt!
<ochosi> Unit193: want me to cp my endorsement from sean's application to yours? :)
<Unit193> Hah, sure!
<Unit193> :P
<ochosi> no, but in all seriousness, if you want an endorsement, i'll write one up
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, can you provide me the link please?
<ochosi> (i'd usually add "gladly" in there, but i have a lot of things i should write today)
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193/XubuntuPackageset
<slickymasterWork> danka
<Unit193> ochosi: Of course, any time though.
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Bitte.
<slickymasterWork> :)
<ochosi> Unit193: btw, now you have an inconsistency of "I am a" and "I am an", since you mention that twice on the page ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: If you're editing, mind fixing? :P
<ochosi> ooook :)
<ochosi> zoooboontoo!
<Unit193> Wonder how many times I've made that mistake...
<ochosi> well as you correctly pointed out, it's merely a "mistake"
<bluesabre> good morning everyone
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg_: hey, what's up?
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, I wanted to check in with you about lightdm-gtk-settings.
<flexiondotorg_> But I chatted with ochosi earlier.
<flexiondotorg_> And he tell's me you're going to upload it to the official archive in time for 15.04?
<flexiondotorg_> We are using LightDM GTK Greeter in Ubuntu MATE and been testing lightdm-gtk-settings. 
<flexiondotorg_> Love it. So do our users.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg_: yes, I hope to do that this weekend. We have a lightdm-gtk-greeter release ready (just want to clean a bit up), and will release gtk-settings at the same time. Since it will go to NEW, we are hoping it will be accepted by the archive admins in time for FF.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Great news.
<flexiondotorg_> Really enjoying the interaction with the Xubuntu team.
<bluesabre> will be pushing for that, and will also add you to the packaging request so you can also vouch for inclusion in ubuntu-mate
<flexiondotorg_> I hope that the MATE team will be able to return the favour this year ð
<bluesabre> that'd be awesome
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, I was updating ochosi about our GSoC 2015 plans.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Intend to work with KDEConnect to get GTK mobile device integration added.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, XFCE will be able to benefit from that, should you want to  ð
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Also see this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-control-center/+bug/1351890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1351890 in mate-control-center (Ubuntu) "Changing external screen resolution with dual monitors" [Medium,Confirmed]
<flexiondotorg_> And the patch in #9
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, I want to progress that too.
<bluesabre> can't really help with that, I can only upload to the xubuntu packageset
<bluesabre> (for now at least)
<flexiondotorg_> I can't upload at all ð
<flexiondotorg_> Most frustrating. 
<ochosi> yeah, we had no uploader for some cycles
<ochosi> that was painful
<bluesabre> looks like you've already found dholbach, he's been a big help for us in the past with getting uploads done
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> he'll also write a nice endorsement if he sponsors a lot of your packages
 * bluesabre needs to endorse Unit193's application
<flexiondotorg_> And for foundations stuff cyphermox has been super helpful.
<bluesabre> time to head to work, bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you git snapshot the icon theme in xubuntu-artwork, a new package is ready except for the icons (if you can get to that today)
<bluesabre> unless you already did, haven't looked since Tuesday
<ochosi> bluesabre: ah, sure, can do that. it's actually just a single command in debian/rules ;)
<bluesabre> neat, thanks
<ochosi> bluesabre: just fyi, rev275 with the latest icons pushed.
<knome> Unit193, we'll have to make pleia2 make the translated stuff on the website then :)
<knome> Unit193, and i guess i'm fine with 70%
<knome> would that bring in many languages?
<slickymasterWork> hey knome 
<slickymasterWork> that's my main reason for agreeing, now, with the 70% goal
<knome> what is? :)
<slickymasterWork> the possibility of increasing the number of shipped translations 
<knome> let's not do guesswork, let's see the stats :)
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<knome> how many languages are between 70-80, how many are even remotely close to 70?
<knome> Unit193?
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, tomorrow I won't be able to make it 15:00 on the dot. I'll just be more or less 15 minutes late
<slickymasterWork> my kid has a birthday party at 15:00 and I'll have to take him there, it will take me approximately 10-15 minutes 
<knome> that's ok
<knome> funny though, i tried to get the meetings next to each other, now you and elfy are ripping them apart, elfy wanting an earlier time and you a later :P
<slickymasterWork> hmmm when you're asking about remotely close to 70 knome, does that mean that you'd be inclined to lower the goal if there are a significant number between 65-70?
<knome> guess i'll just schedule more FOSS things in between
<slickymasterWork> or 60-70 even?
<knome> if we're argumenting that it might get motivated to translate it...
<slickymasterWork> but we'll have to set a line somewhere 
<knome> then i would guess that motivation covers the situation where you are really close to be included as well
<slickymasterWork> agree, but I'll have to stress the fact that we'll have to set a line somewhere
<knome> of course :P
<knome> what i meant is
<knome> does lowering to 70 actually make a difference?
<knome> if no new languages would be included, and none are even near 70, why lower?
<slickymasterWork> let me quickly check how things are in LP
<knome> eg. if there were 10 languages at 69%...
<knome> maybe those then language translators would be more motivated to translate that missing 1%
<knome> than the current missing 11%
<knome> see my point now?
<slickymasterWork> I was speaking in terms of larger differences, no
<slickymasterWork> yes, I do see your point
<slickymasterWork> fr.po 64,472%
<slickymasterWork> de.po 61,86%
<slickymasterWork> and those are the only candidates 
<knome> i don't think they are very close?
<knome> -? :P
<knome> any languages between 70-80 ?
<slickymasterWork> nopes
<knome> heh.
<slickymasterWork> that's I asked you "...about remotely close to 70 knome, does that mean that you'd be inclined to lower the goal if there are a significant number between 65-70?"
<slickymasterWork> because none are really close
<knome> well,
<knome> that would make the argument a bit stronger
<slickymasterWork> oth, let's theoretically say that we'd admit 65% as the goal, the question that automatically rises is, what part of the 35% isn't translated? is there any important chapter within those 35%? 
<knome> there's always that question even with 80%
<knome> i haven't followed the situation very closely, but the healthiest thing would be that the translations got gradually (even if slowly) better
<knome> not huge jumps now and then
<knome> or, nothing wrong with that necessaily
<slickymasterWork> yes, but it's like in mathematical probabilities, the lower the number, the lower the chances of hitting it 
<knome> yes, and more prone to translate the easy strings.
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<slickymasterWork> it would be great to have some more insights on this by the team, since it's something we're shipping 
<knome> what if we tried to encourage de/fr contributors to try to hit 80% first?
<knome> like give it some publicity on social media and so
<knome> and/or ask loco channels
<slickymasterWork> maybe sidi could sketch us a post in french to be released in those medias
<knome> heh
<elfy> never going to affect me, but surely better to have some in *your* language than none - might even push people to do what's not translated
<elfy> does depend though on what is already translated 
<slickymasterWork> and keep pressing dkessel to run that last mile in the de.po one
<knome> since translators need to translate *from* *english*...
<knome> i guess we could generally do another round of calls for those translations
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I'll do it
<slickymasterWork> I still have one last call for translations planned to the end of the month
<knome> just ping me/lyz when you need help with the social media
<slickymasterWork> but I'll do them separately as they aim for distinct goals and I don't want to overlap them
<knome> sure
<slickymasterWork> ok knome 
<knome> you're the leader ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, that's just a word
<slickymasterWork> sidi would you be so kind to provide us what I mentioned ^^^
<slickymasterWork> dkessel ding a long
<knome> slickymasterWork, saw my comment?
<knome> translators need to work with english anyway, do we really need translated calls?
<slickymasterWork> I know, my idea is just as a matter of sympathy
<knome> heh
<slickymasterWork> you know like reaching out
<knome> no
<knome> ;P
<dkessel> I don't know what the last 19 hours of backlog day but yes I am planning to get over the 80% hurdle at least.
<dkessel> It would help to get that offline apt medium stuff removed :p I got really put off by that and it is so long :p
<sidi> slickymaster, i actually dont have a french keyboard anymore ;P
<sidi> i'll type french like a total retard
<sidi> knome, slickymaster i'll go and whine in #ubuntu-fr that xubuntu needs more translators, and they can come talk to knome / slickymaster on #xubuntu-devel to get started
<sidi> knome, slickymaster but the question is
<knome> slickymaster, "whine", there's your sympathy
<sidi> WHAT is being translated?
<knome> the documentation
<sidi> knome, whining is a standard form of communication in French
<knome> and other bits too
<knome> sidi, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-October/010454.html
<sidi> omg your next version is a monkey, i MUST return to Xubuntu for 6 months
<elfy> wut? 
<elfy> I was positive it was a vampire :(
<sidi> so i apparently didnt attract masses with my whinin
<elfy> perhaps that's because you missed out all the g's 
<PaulW2U_> wnxx
<PaulW2U_> oops :)
<Unit193> knome: ru 66, de 69, fr 71.  Those are close to the limit.
<slickymasterWork> lol Unit193, your values always differ to ones in LP
<Unit193> Yeah...
<knome> why not just try to push those over 80?
<slickymasterWork> the russian one would be a stretch, but it's worth to try anyway 
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Perhaps because it hasn't refreshed the actual files since last updating the pot?  My logic isn't wrong, the files are different.
<slickymasterWork> I'll have this specific call ready and mailed in a bit and then you can pass it to our media channels knome 
<Unit193>  de.po   61.521%
<Unit193>  es.po   85.9251%
<Unit193>  fi.po   88.6493%
<Unit193>  fr.po   64.0182%
<Unit193>  ja.po   29.2849%
<Unit193>  pt.po   88.6493%
<Unit193>  ru.po   57.7753%
<slickymasterWork> hey pt.po is just missing two strings :P
<Unit193> 781 translated messages, 26 fuzzy translations, 74 untranslated messages.  according to this.
<slickymasterWork> bah there's no such thing as a fuzzy translation in pt.po
 * slickymasterWork blames Unit193 for that status
 * slickymasterWork hides
<GridCube> whats on need of translation on spanish?
<Unit193> 757 translated messages, 26 fuzzy translations, 98 untranslated messages.  according to my stats.
<slickymasterWork> the 100% goal GridCube ;)
<GridCube> yeah but what, i checked last time i got the mail and there wasnt anything to translate on spanish
<slickymasterWork> knome, as far as I know the 80% limit isn't explicit in the Strategy Document
<slickymasterWork> is it anywhere?
<slickymasterWork> GridCube, check https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<knome> slickymasterWork, i don't think it's written down
<slickymasterWork> that's what I suspected. Thanks
<Unit193> knome: Also, in normal projects the person to upload updates po/LINGUAS, it's not done automatically on build.
<knome> "normal"? :P
<GridCube> alright slickymasterWork book marked ill see if i can do that this weekend :)
<slickymasterWork> thanks GridCube 
<Unit193> The usual method.
<slickymasterWork> knome do you want to review the call?
<knome> i'm sure it's o
<knome> oko
<knome> eh
<knome> ok
<knome> i'm a bit unfocused now so i don't know how much it'd help to review
<slickymasterWork> ok, sent
<slickymasterWork> feel free to spread it through our media channels as soon as you receive the mail
<slickymasterWork> pleia2: ^^^
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Oh, thoughts on the epub thing?
<knome> tweeted
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, I'm inclined to drop the all idea
<Unit193> I see.
<slickymasterWork> both possible solutions not only don't guarantee a if not optimum output, at least a tolerable one
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/9re4VVCNtRWhQrdY7uza/ should fail more gracefully.
<slickymasterWork> and there's the extra point of both bring several unneeded dependencies ~
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Oh, the epub one was nice, the pdf one fails.
<Unit193> (Only new dep being zip there.)
<slickymasterWork> knome mentioned others than zip
<slickymasterWork> TeX, Java, dblatex
<Unit193> That's for pdf.
<knome> Unit193, right
<knome> Unit193, do a merge request
<knome> the epub is... okayih.
<knome> +s
<slickymasterWork> oh, you're right Unit193 
<slickymasterWork> does it makes sense to just provide/be able to epub
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> i don't think there are *many* people who would rather use that than the online documentation
<slickymasterWork> that's my thinking also
<slickymasterWork> pdf would be a more straight forward replacement
<slickymasterWork> read alternative, not replacement 
<knome> i think we could offer the epub as a "community project", eg. not ship it with the official docs and not worry about pushing it to the makefiles or usual process
<Unit193> knome: But, does  echo "<listitem><para>No translations found</para></listitem>"  make you unhappy?
<knome> Unit193, it's a bit weird comment.
<knome> "No translator data found."
<Unit193> Well right, but the xml.
<slickymasterWork> knome, through a downloadable link in the site?
<knome> Unit193, i don't understand the question :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, yes, or just "somewhere"
<slickymasterWork> That's a good idea and option
<slickymasterWork> I would be +1 on that
<pleia2> slickymaster: done
<pleia2> g+ and fb
<Unit193> And, mate hit the repos.
<ochosi> evening y'all
<Unit193> Jello.
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<Unit193> And I just took out xfce4-terminal: Vte-0.0:ERROR:/build/buildd/vte-0.28.2/./src/ring.c:370:_vte_ring_thaw_one_row: assertion failed: (ring->start < ring->writable)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-14
 * pleia2 squeezes a compliment out of someone re: our docs https://plus.google.com/+xubuntu/posts/fghqCAsnFrk (last comment, scroll up for context)
<Unit193> Hah, though I liked: "I talk American good.ï»¿"
<ochosi> pleia2: well done
<ochosi> Unit193: i prefer hodor.
<knome> eh:)
<ochosi> Unit193: how would you say dholbach thought this would go down exactly? https://code.launchpad.net/~profzoom/lightdm-gtk-greeter/add-mate-badge/+merge/243069 (comment about adding license info to d/copyright)
<ochosi> is that only relevant for the packager or where would we carry this info in bzr?
<ochosi> LICENSE file?
<Unit193> ochosi: I'd say since he was pinged, he was looking at it from a sponsor prospective, not upstream.  I'd say do what's normal there, in the LICENSE file.
<Unit193> Be aware copyright isn't my strong set.
<ochosi> so far we don't have a LICENSE file
<ochosi> even the AUTHORS file just says "See bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/lightdm-gtk-greeter for the commit history" :D
<Unit193> And wow, your readme stinks too.
<ochosi> hehe
<Unit193> I've seen seperate license files before too, having one in data/ for example.  Not sure that's a good thing, but still.
<ochosi> anyway, time to sleep
<ochosi> i'll let future me deal with this
<ochosi> night all
<Unit193> Scumbag past ochosi? :---D
<Unit193> ali1234: Thanks for the bump on 1270486.
<ali1234> bug 1270486
<ubottu> bug 1270486 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "indicator-application doesn't use the menu item's label if it has a stock icon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270486
<ali1234> oh that one ... yeah
<bluesabre> Unit193: uploaded the new xubuntu-artwork package, let me know when meta/seed is ready to go
<Unit193> Great.
<bluesabre> going to bed now, back in the morning
<Unit193> Alright.  I'll have it ready to go by then, just have to see what deps can go.
<elfy> knome: looks like the later time will be cool - biab
<brainwosh> ochosi, bug 1421180 affects greybird (and co?)
<ubottu> bug 1421180 in meld (Ubuntu) "Meld shows background in black instead of white" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421180
<ochosi> brainwosh: ehm, the comment suggests it's a meld issue
<ochosi> i don't really care about app bugs in the theme, if i would, it would be twice the size
<brainwosh> right, maybe they'll fix it eventually
<bluesabre> ochosi: what causes our fallback color to be black in this case?
<ochosi> in what case?
<bluesabre> in any unexpected case (meld, blueman, others maybe)
<elfy> hi peeps
<bluesabre> when widget backgrounds are black (and not supposed to be)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<ochosi> bluesabre: i don't think that's really us doing that
<bluesabre> just wondering if there is some fallback color that is bleeding through in this case, since adwaita is usually not black in the same instance
<ochosi> usually?
<ochosi> well i dunno, and tbh if apps screw up, i don't care ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> all will be better as soon as it's all SASS
<elfy> I'd agree unless it's one I use :p
<bluesabre> seeing how long it takes numix to be sass, this feels like xfce releases
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well, even satya is busy these days
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> numix is growing up
<ochosi> not only that, it's also RL and real work ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> elfy, good good :)
<knome> elfy, i'll quickly go pick up some groceries, be back right after that :)
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> here i am :)
<knome> shall we start with question 1 ?
<elfy> be right with you 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> ok :)
<knome> see my mods in the pad
<elfy> I am :)
<elfy> knome: re that current one 
<knome> yep?
<elfy> they are different - we're trying to find out about our users
<knome> ok ;)
<elfy> using xubuntu for sys admin is not the same as maintaining for others
<knome> ok, so would the options in q1 cover the q2 now?
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> possibly 
<knome> so should we drop q2?
<elfy> q1 I would drop
<knome> huh? :)
<knome> of, question one
<knome> i meant
<elfy> I prefer gui to cli 
<knome> question 2) of the poll :D
<elfy> keep that 
<knome> not option 1/2
<knome> ok
<knome> then keep power user too :P
<knome> i'd probably mix those questions around
<knome> eh, the options :P
<elfy> yea 
<knome> re: your comment, true, but it might also be windows questions they are asked
<knome> i'd keep that 
<elfy> let's not do that just yer :)
<elfy> don't add any more - any longer and I'd just ignore it and move on :)
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> I'm embarrassed, a lot of mugshot is really bad code :(
<knome> yeah, i thought that was important though
<bluesabre> for now
<knome> not sure how important the producing digital media is
<elfy> that's why those 2 weren't in the list I left
<elfy> that and software dev
<knome> mhm
<elfy> even if people say they do - we're not going to be doing anything specific for them I guess 
<knome> yeah, i guess
<knome> that's why i'm wondering why they should be in question 2)
<knome> the where and how
<elfy> just lose cli from q2
<elfy> then put them in different places in the list later
<knome> thats *option* 2
<knome> i'm talking about *question* 2
<knome> 2) Where and how do you use xubuntu? (optional)
<elfy> I'm not even sure we need that 
<knome> exactly
<knome> but if we drop it, maybe we want to ask if people use xubuntu for software development
<elfy> which is why I'd [s][/s] 
<knome> that's interesting for me
<knome> right, we're just confusing each other again :P
<elfy> :D
<knome> here
<elfy> ok - so q1 :)
<elfy> I'm happy with those - just need shuffling about 
<knome> yep
<elfy> and q2 now as well :p
<knome> i guess we'll be using google forms for this
<knome> i'll just use the "shuffle" option there
<knome> so everybody gets them in random order
<elfy> works for me 
<elfy> and we shouldn't do more than get people to agree or disagree 
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm making them check the boxes if they agree
<knome> if they disagree, just don't select that
<elfy> those ones with 1 to 5 - I just decide if I agree or not and give 1 or 5 :p
<knome> ;)
<knome> yeah, it's much harder
<elfy> :)
<knome> ok, let's see how i can share that poll with you
<knome> what's your gmail email again?
<elfy> elfyesq
<knome> ta
<knome> elfy, should have edit permissions now
<elfy> looks like I do
<knome> elfy, not that! :P
<elfy> :D
<knome> it's in the advanced settings for the first question
<knome> what you changed might have popped age first
<elfy> lol
<elfy> aah yes, see it now 
<elfy> is there only a short character limit? 
<knome> for what?
<knome> probably not, the edit box is just small
<elfy> q1 option 6 
<knome> if it's what i think it is, it's wrapping over to next line
<elfy> yep - seeing that 
<elfy> only thing I'm wondering here is we'll not see if people strongly disagree 
<elfy> if I was answering - I'd strongly disagree with default entertainment software for example
<knome> right...
<elfy> though we're likely to pick that up with the next poll 
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'm thinking: don't overcomplicate
<elfy> yep 
<knome> that's a long list already
<elfy> agree
<knome> it's relatively easy to go through it and see if you agree with it
<knome> but harder if you have to think if you agree, disagree, or don't care
<elfy> the next one - we'll have defauls apps - we can have a freeform box I assume
<knome> we can have anything
<elfy> eg - gmb - remove - install clementine
<elfy> that kind of thing
<elfy> but - back to today :p
<knome> hehe
<knome> so what do you think about the contact info section?
<elfy> just looking now 
<elfy> ok - just going to give it all a read and double check 
<knome> yep
<knome> slimy master should be here soon
<elfy> lol
<elfy> knome: ok looks good - except confirmation page - does that mean people can submit more than once? 
<elfy> if so - not sure about that
<knome> removed that
<knome> but they can submit twice anyway
<knome> since we aren't requiring login
<elfy> yea ok, but I'd rather not make it obvious :)
<knome> sure
<knome> i was on the edge with that
<elfy> did you see I added 'themselves' ?
<elfy> at top 
<knome> that's good
<elfy> ok - I think send that :)
<elfy> where are we sending it - both m/l and all the social stuff?
<knome> yeah
<elfy> not sure of the name ... 
<elfy> going to got put kettle on and think about that 
<knome> maybe something on sharing/handing the results
<elfy> disclaimer type thing ?
<knome> something like that
<knome> and our schedule in handling ita
<knome> -a
<knome> and if we will make the results public
<knome> and stuff
<knome> i don't really know how we want to handle that, might want to wait pleia2 for input
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> better name :)
<knome> also added a subsection header
<knome> works better if we add that disclaimer stuff at the top
<elfy> yes 
<elfy> I think - that's all good, just get some input from pleia2 on those issues. Not sure when - off to foreign again iirc :)
<knome> heh
<knome> she'll get the pings
<elfy> yep :)
<knome> but thanks for this
<knome> now we're so much closer :)
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I'll make a start on the next one - get the ground work done
<knome> since the slimy one isn't here, i'll be off for a short while to try to prepare dinner
<knome> yep, ta
<elfy> ok - cya bit later :)
<slickymaster> hey guys
<slickymaster> sorry for the delay
<elfy> hi slickymaster :)
<slickymaster> the traffic is insane and on top of that we're under this massive dome of fog
<slickymaster> hey elfy 
<slickymaster> I presume the poll sprint is over?
<elfy> yep 
<slickymaster> is there anything else needed for that?
<elfy> not right now nope 
<elfy> I'll hang about for the slideshow one too
<slickymaster> is knome mia?
<elfy> just nipped off to prep food while waiting for you :)
<slickymaster> ok
<elfy> slickymaster: so how is it I can run the dev slideshow, what to install ? how to run it ?
<slickymaster> I'll have to leave at about 17:30 UTC to pick up the little one at his friend's birthday party
<elfy> don't do it often enough :)
<slickymaster> elfy: push the branch
<slickymaster> and then run it locally
<slickymaster> give me a sec and I'll provide the url of the branch
<elfy> yea ... 
<elfy> oh got that I think https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes
<slickymaster> no, that one is incomplete
<slickymaster> that's the one that only have the changes knome and I have planned so far
<slickymaster> if you want the complete one -> bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<elfy> ta
<slickymaster> elfy, also http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow
<elfy> when you get there you should see I am already :p
<slickymaster> yeah :)
<knome> i'm here
<slickymaster> elfy: once you branched,  cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/
<elfy> how to run slideshow? 
<knome> elfy, ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<slickymaster> and then ./test-slideshow.sh 
<elfy> ta
<slickymaster> hey knome 
<knome> slickymaster, ^ note you can add the paremeter, so you don't need to pick from the list..
<slickymaster> I know knome 
<knome> you should be able to do "./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu pt" now as well..
<elfy> just 2 slides so far - is that right? 
<slickymaster> let me try it
<knome> elfy, in the new one, yeah
<slickymaster> yeah, that's what I was saying elfy 
<elfy> this is the one at lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> elfy, that's wrong then...
 * knome wonders if he pushed to main then
<knome> oops.
<slickymaster> yes, I just branched and elfy is right knome 
<elfy> well I like the background to slide #2 :p
<knome> i noticed
<knome> elfy, pull again
<elfy> k
<knome> should get the pink one back :P
<elfy> yep :)
<slickymaster> yeah, evrything is correct now
<slickymaster> so, shall we start at the beginning?
<slickymaster> slide 1?
<knome> i guess that's one way to face this...
<knome> do we want to keep the old text/image?
<slickymaster> I would go with a yes on this one
<knome> fwiw, i'm planning some new image stuff for the website, it might affect this
<knome> but we'll only know when it's ready
<knome> there's no ETA
<knome> but it'll be a relatively simple drop in anyway
<knome> for this slide
<slickymaster> we still have at least a month and a few weeks left, in case we want to add any changes later
<elfy> then currently it can be left alone 
<slickymaster> ok, moving then to the panel slide
<knome> i think that's relatively good as it is
<knome> is there something else in the desktop we want to highlight?
<elfy> assuming that no changes are in the pipeline 
<knome> not that i know of
<slickymaster> I would chance the bottom string from "You can customize the panel..." to "Customize your panel...."
<knome> and even if we decide to change the panel, we can just use the same idea
<slickymaster> knome, elfy ^^^
<elfy> might need updating for the panel - doesn't power show default now?
<slickymaster> yes, it does elfy 
<knome> elfy, for desktops too?
<slickymaster> yes knome 
<knome> okay
<elfy> pretty sure I removed it
<knome> ok
<slickymaster> did you guys saw my proposal to change the bottom string?
<slickymaster> from "You can customize the panel..." to "Customize your panel...."
<elfy> and ack slickymaster - would read beter as Customisze your panel ... I think 
<knome> slickymaster, if you don't mind, do all the text changes in the main branch
<slickymaster> most of the other slides we always address users directly
<slickymaster> ok, I'll do them
<knome> thanks
<slickymaster> later on
<knome> i'll just rebase to what that is once i drop the new features in
<knome> slickymaster, note the work items section on the pad :P
<knome> slickymaster, below your todo...
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> ok, third slide
<knome> do we want to keep the desktop customization as the second slide, or move the personalization stuff before it?
<knome> with the additional user accounts notice
<knome> maybe with that it's fit for later
<slickymaster> that would be logical
<knome> maybe we should check the order later
<slickymaster> it all falls under the same category/usability
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> so slide three is the apps
<slickymaster> and it's where the major improvement first start
<elfy> just a thought here 
<slickymaster> go elfy 
<elfy> wouldn't it be logical to have slides in a similar order to using the OS
<knome> elfy, that's what i'm thinking
<elfy> eg you've got login first - so that slide before panel 
<elfy> then panel - then desktop - then whisker
<slickymaster> agree
<elfy> maybe have the ready to go one close to the beginning 
<knome> elfy, but where does creating new accounts fall into?
<elfy> imo - that would be after you've fiddled with your panel and desktop 
<knome> ok
<slickymaster> but before or after the whisker one?
<knome> that's a good logic to follow
<knome> maybe we should concentrate on the slides first though, to know what we're saying in them :P
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> getting back into the slides, do you want to work them in the sequence they are now, or do you want to jump to what we think their sequence will be?
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'll try to focus more on the non-content side
 * slickymaster too
<knome> (this time)
<elfy> I'd work on what is current order
<knome> i mean, i'm interested in the content, but i need to know the changes we want to technically make sooner
<slickymaster> ok, so the next candidate is the whisker one, currently it's the third one
<knome> i'm thinking the searchable app menu might be a bit over the top
<slickymaster> you mean in terms of spacial placement knome ?
<knome> no placement
<knome> would people really poke that?
<slickymaster> or in terms of using it/havinf it? 
<knome> is it good to drag their attention to playing with that?
<knome> instead of the content in some other slides, like getting help
<slickymaster> not probably, but I would like to see it there
<knome> also the screenshot of the menu needs to be relatively static
<elfy> added current and proposal to bottom of pad
<knome> elfy, thanks
<slickymaster> yeah, I'm +1 on your proposal elfy 
<elfy> bit more logic to it perhaps
<knome> elfy, if you want to try it, go to slideshows/xubuntu/slides
<knome> elfy, and open index.html
<knome> elfy, then simply reorder the div's inside the <div id="slideshow">
<elfy> ok 
<slickymaster> getting back to slide three, the addittion or not of the searchable app menu will influence the amount of thext
<slickymaster> * text
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> there, so we do have to decide if it's a go on it, or not
<knome> the current text is a bit of take it or leave it
<slickymaster> what do you me knome?
<knome> i mean that... it's okay, but if it's removed, it's not a huge loss either
<slickymaster> right, I'll get this one on my todo also
<knome> don't know what's to say about whiskermenu really
<slickymaster> the image itself has to be updated, regardeles of everything
<knome> would make sense to group it with the apps
<slickymaster> the one I don't like?
<knome> lol
<knome> well it can be something completely different than any of the slides now
<slickymaster> I'm afraid that one might end up way to cluttered 
<knome> do we really need a whisker screenshot?
<knome> we're already telling the people how to get to their menu on the panel slide
<slickymaster> now I don't think we do
<knome> so there you go, where's the clutter? :)
<slickymaster> it was added because it was new and because we added it in a LTS release
<knome> maybe we can group the stuff in the apps slide differently
<slickymaster> that where I'm afraid the clutter might come up knome 
<knome> eg. have bigger icons for the apps, like ff, tb and pidgin together
 * knome shrugs
<knome> we won't know before we try
<slickymaster> I do agree with your reasoning knome, what I 'm afraid is that the app slide might end up a wall of icons and labels beside them
<slickymaster> no we won't
<knome> there's not many more ways to show a bunch of apps
<slickymaster> the only salvation that slide can have is in the hands of its designer
<knome> we can also make the slideshow somehow interactive
<knome> show the app icons only when hovering a group name or sth
<slickymaster> I like that
<slickymaster> and since we're dropping the searchable app interaction
<slickymaster> we might as well do it that one
<knome> yeah, this one is less obtrusive
<slickymaster> sorry guys, but can we have a 30 minute break?
<knome> yep
<knome> i was thinking the exactly same thing
<knome> i need to get food
<slickymaster> I do have to pick up my kid at the party
<knome> hf doing that :P
<slickymaster> ok, lol
<slickymaster> brb ->
<elfy> that slideshow order does look ok to me when actually running it
<slickymaster> and back
<knome> heh
<knome> that wasn't 30 mins!
<slickymaster> you wouldn't belief how chaotic traffic is knome 
<slickymaster> * believe
<slickymaster> so, want to continue ?
<knome> i'm actually a bid headachy so maybe some other day :/
<slickymaster> ok, no problem knome, I'll added some ideas to the pad as they come up
<slickymaster> get some rest 
<knome> ok, good
<knome> i will
<slickymaster> get better knome 
<slimjimflim> hi guys, i don't care enough to make an account and submit an official bug report, but there's a typo in 14.04 (maybe only xfce) when you plug in your power cable.  "X hour X minutes until is fully charged."  I know this isn't earth-shattering, but i'm feeling a little OCD grammar-nazish today.
<slimjimflim> i bet it'd be a pita to check if hours > 1 and make hour plural...same with minute(s).
<slimjimflim> it'd be trivial to add an 'it' in there though
<slimjimflim> actually, the plurality thing isn't an actual bug, just the 'is' ..my bad
<slimjimflim> ...the missing 'it' even
<holstein> slimjimflim: so, you want someone to file a bug on your behalf?
<slimjimflim> what it is
<slimjimflim> holstein: ^
<holstein> slimjimflim: sure, i see it.. you want someone to post the bug on your behalf?
<slimjimflim> that would be great
<holstein> i think i would send an email to the list.. personally, i would try and see if its coming from upstream, in which case, i would address it there
<holstein> xfce, or debian..
<holstein> then, the "fix" would just trickle down
<slimjimflim> can you replicate it?
<holstein> slimjimflim: i can look, when im near stock xubuntu.. 
<slimjimflim> k im afk
<brainwash> slimjimflim: are you talking about the indicator popup message?
<brainwash> also, it takes only some minutes to create an account and file a report
<Noskcaj> Is anyone packaging xfwm4 and xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin's updates?
<pleia2> elfy, knome - too busy prepping for trip tomorrow to read whole sprint log, what did you want my input on? just disclaimer for results?
<pleia2> we're not offering any goodies (no need for name/contact info), and will probably use a google form to collect results (no access to whose IP connected, so quite anonymous for us!)
<pleia2> so we can confidently say that the results will be shared, but unless you specifically say who you are for some reason, it's anonymous
<knome> pleia2, remind me of your google email and i'll share the form with you
<knome> pleia2, and to answer your question, yes, we pretty much wanted your input on the disclaimer
<knome> pleia2, and we are not collecting names or have any freeform text fields, but we do have an optional box for email if you want to know when the next poll is published
<knome> pleia2, (and if you wanted to be contacted on information on contributing)
<pleia2> lyz@princessleia.com
<knome> shared with you
<knome> maybe we should add one more field to the contact stuff
<knome> [ ] i want to know when the poll results are published
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I made some text changes
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Can you please sponsor lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfwm4/4.11.3 and lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/1.4.3
<knome> pleia2, noticed, thanks
<Unit193> Well I was going to say I can/kind of did xfwm, but that works too.
<knome> pleia2, you happy with the age brackets?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, were there any changes i didn't include that you did
<pleia2> knome: yeah that's fine
<brainwash> Noskcaj, Unit193: won't debian do the packaging any time soon?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, freeze stuff
<knome> pleia2, good!
<knome> pleia2, anything else? :)
<Noskcaj> and we have a deadline
<pleia2> knome: lgtm
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Also, where you going to that SRU paperwork or should i?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: ah ok, thought that it has to be something with the freeze
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I do need to forward all our changes back to debian, but i think it's better to wait for unfreeze or the 4.12 release
<knome> pleia2, should we do a blog post on it, or do you think just mailing list and social media is good?
<pleia2> knome: I think just mailing list and social media is good
<knome> ok
<pleia2> knome: I figure we'll share it a bunch of times over the next few weeks
<knome> both -users and -devel i suppose?
<pleia2> yeah, but two emails
<pleia2> so we don't get crazy -devel queue of replyall
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah, but can probably be sameish email
<pleia2> yeah
<Unit193> brainwash: It's development releases, so would be in experimental only anyway, but the focus there is to get all set for jessie.
<brainwash> Noskcaj: bug 1315623 fixed by 4.11.3
<ubottu> bug 1315623 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Mouse wheel doesn't switch windows when focus following" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315623
<brainwash> bug 1307209 may be a dupe (too)
<ubottu> bug 1307209 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Window buttons don't minimize/maximize with focus follows mouse" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307209
<Noskcaj> and bug 1292122
<ubottu> bug 1292122 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Activating a window from the taskbar doesn't focus it when 'focus follows mouse'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292122
<brainwash> it's the same core issue, just described in different ways :)
<Noskcaj> yeah, so the oldest bug is now the master bug
<brainwash> nice
<brainwash> can you mark bug 1301873 as wishlist please?
<ubottu> bug 1301873 in Xfwm4 "Add support for title-less windows" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301873
<Noskcaj> done
<brainwash> thanks
<Noskcaj> You should go for triage rights soon brainwash 
<brainwash> "soon"
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> Like i will get MOTU "soon"
<brainwash> heh :>
<brainwash> team "soon"
<Unit193> And how I'll get packageset "soon" :D
<knome> pleia2, will you be around in the next few hours?
<pleia2> knome: not really, have much to do today before my trip
<knome> mkay
<knome> i'll ping you when you can social mediaize then and you do it when you have time
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> pleia2, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010630.html
<knome> i'll tweet too
<knome> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/566717931447668737
<knome> oh my word
<knome> the format in which the results are is crap
<knome> hooray!
<knome> the column for the answers is a comma-delimited list of the answers :))
<knome> 4 responses already.
<Unit193> knome: "No translations found" "Translator data unavailable"?
<knome> i'd say the latter
<Unit193> I mean =>
<Unit193> knome: Think of anything better?
 * knome bows :P
<knome> hmm
<knome> well the other option is to say
<knome> "Unable to parse translator data, see Launchpad" or sth
<knome> but then i would prefer to have a link to a page in launchpad that has the translator credits for that language
<knome> that shouldn't be too hard though
<Unit193> Have fun.
<knome> hah.
<knome> i thought you'd do that
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Actually, it's easier for me to fix it than to tell you to.. :P
<knome> yes
<Unit193> Except, I don't know docbook and don't want to...  What tag for a link and to get it to say 'vivid'?
<knome> <ulink url="URL">linktext</ulink>
<knome> we aren't storing the codename information
<knome> but we can add that
<Unit193> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+details vivid needs to be in the link. :3
<knome> i know
<knome> but there isn't a way to get that currently.
<knome> as i said, we can add it
<knome> just have to remember to update that...
<knome> though...
<knome> it'd be better if we knew why that's failing.
<knome> Noskcaj, you around?
<Noskcaj> knome, yeah
<knome> Noskcaj, just wanted to check if you checked any of the checkboxes after the email link?
<knome> because i don't see any selection, if that is broken, i'll have to fix it..
<Noskcaj> i ticked all but 2 i think
<knome> no i mean below the email one
<knome> i see your survey results
<Noskcaj> i ticked none of them
<knome> ok
<knome> then it's probably fine :)
<Unit193> knome: Sure, but unless you can find someone that knows...
<knome> Unit193, it just feels weird that it fails build time
<Unit193> chroot, something is missing.
<knome> no results on your debugging activities?
<knome> right
<Unit193> Well, not really no.
<knome> can we add more debug stuff that would help us?
<Unit193> Like?
<Unit193> I tried bumping off to Sean since he's lead dev, but...
<knome> how would i know?
<Unit193> "doing a serie of surveys." +s
<Unit193> knome: Still, this is better than the alternative.
<knome> alt what?
<Unit193> Breaking verification.
<Unit193> Bah, so no I don't know how to use ENTs. :(
<knome> once it's defined in xubuntu.ent like others, do &entity-name;
<Unit193> Right, did that.  I didn't know it wasn't included in translators.xml
<Unit193> Well that wasn't it, oh well.
<Unit193> Oh forget it, who cares about translators? :P
<knome> nooo
<knome> fix eeeeeet
<Unit193> I don't know how, either current-codename isn't defined, or I'm not permitted to include the entities there. :P
<knome> did you define current-codename?
<Unit193> Yep.
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/e/credits-license.html also, detect a problem with the concept anyway?
<knome> yes and no
<knome> this shouldn't happen
<knome> if it does, well, too bad if the message is in english..
<Unit193> "Shouldn't"
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/wDx2piemISaYE4XnJJoM/
<knome> you're missing the point you asked about
<knome> well that's... working as well :P
<Unit193> Sorry what?  And yeah, not saying it's pretty, but it does work.
<knome> i guess it doesn't matter where we store that information
<Unit193> Well, not great to have it in that script, but needed something.
<knome> can we get that from lsb_release?
<knome> lsb_release -c -s
<Unit193> Of course, but that'd be the current system, not what branch you're building from.
<Unit193> Which I suppose if this problem is only triggered by the buildds... :/
<knome> mhm.
<Unit193> Means adding another build-dep.
<knome> yes, i'd rather fix this without this stupid fallback too
<Unit193> And in case you didn't see, s/nm-tool/nmcli device show/.   Sure, and I get that, but I think the fallback is a better option than verification failing.
<knome> "Unable to parse translator data. See the list of translators per language at <ulink url="https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs">Launchpad</ulink>."
<knome> that's somewhat crappy, but it's a fallback
<Unit193> Meh.
<knome> i know
<Unit193> But as you said, it's a fallback.  Want me to push it?
<knome> meeeeeh
<knome> i guess so
<knome> would be really nice to know what's happening there though
<knome> want to ask Mirv? (:
<Unit193> He's busy with a Qt merge.
<Unit193> Or last I knew.
<knome> well this is a bug, not subject to FF or anything like that.
<Unit193> Sure..
<Unit193> So should I not push it?
<knome> no, it's ok to have a semi-sensible fallback
<knome> but we should try to fix the original issue as well
<knome> Unit193, ...aaand merged
<Unit193> Danke.
<knome> thank you
<Unit193> Actually, any reason this can't be merged as-is?  http://paste.openstack.org/show/pY8qOHTqWpM277rBtt94/  it adds the targets, but doesn't set it to use them at any time.
<knome> it's a bit weird to include that if we don't ever intend to use it
<Unit193> Meh.
<Unit193> Also, http://paste.openstack.org/show/J48pvmzwDypq8RXFgdxZ
<knome> muh.
<knome> wfm, do a MP
<knome> i'm hungry :|
<brainwash> did/does anyone work on a greybird variant with thicker window borders?
<brainwash> http://sevkeifert.blogspot.de/2014/12/increase-window-border-size-in-xubuntu.html
<Unit193> knome: Generally because 1. Means I can clean up local.  2. Doesn't have to stay in a seperate branch.  3. If some user wants to build it, makes it either easier for us to direct him, or just easier for him.  4. If someone wants to do a community contributation, easier to do so.
<knome> Unit193, put it in scripts?
<Unit193> It's in the makefiles, pretty clean.
<knome> brainwash, it's in the TODO list, but not very high
<brainwash> knome: does anyone work on it or assigned to the task?
<knome> no
<brainwash> the result looks great (screenshot) and this would make many users even happier
<brainwash> many do complain about the 1px borders :)
<knome> the greybird code is maintained in github, you can do a merge request
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<knome> Unit193, well oooookay, put it in a MP
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<knome> maybe you can add a comment that it is community stuff, eg. not official, in the makefile
<Unit193> Well, you can always ignore it..
<Unit193> Erm, stupid bzr...
<knome> the stupidness lies in the user
<Unit193> Well, yes. :P
<knome> will you push to the same repository?
<Unit193> knome: I didn't so it'd be easier to ignore..  But yes, I can.
<knome> well do since i'm going to merge it now
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Pushed, do I need to re-merge or something? :3
<knome> nope
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> Unit193, merged. did this close a work item?
<Unit193> [knome] Briefly investigate possibilities to export DocBook to other formats  but that's already DONE.
<knome> right
<knome> i was wondering the nm-tool part
<knome> but maybe there wasn't a work item for that
<Unit193> Thought there was something, yeah..
<mozmck> Hi, if I were to build a live CD based on Xubuntu, but with an added application and a realtime kernel as default, would I need to remove all the Xubuntu branding?
<Unit193> mozmck: Do you plan to distribute it?
<mozmck> yes
<knome> mozmck, then you will need to remove the xubuntu branding
<Unit193> Generally speaking that'd be a good idea.  I'd also make sure to note that #xubuntu and #ubuntu don't support it.
<knome> yes, noting that the documentation and installer slideshow imply that
<mozmck> ok, I thought that might be the case.  Is there a document anywhere that tells where all the branding is?
<knome> nope
<knome> the xubuntu-* packages are a good place to start
<mozmck> bummer.  There are enough distros around based on others that I figured somebody made notes on that.
<mozmck> thanks for the info though.
<knome> since we don't really encourage derivatives (we'd rather see people contribute back to (x)ubuntu), it's not our priority to list those packages
<Unit193> Besides ubiquity slideshow and the /usr/share/pixmaps/xubuntu-logo.png what else can you think of?
<knome> distributor-logo in icon themes?
<knome> debian installer
<knome> then all the xubuntu-* packages
<Unit193> Eh, default-settings is pretty clean.
<knome> example content maybe
<Unit193> mozmck: What additional packages, btw?
<Unit193> knome: Saddest is the docs, because they're great but of course Xubuntu geared.
<mozmck> linuxcnc primarily
<Unit193> Hrm, seemingly unpackaged.
<mozmck> and it requires rtai and an rtai enabled kernel, and also a preempt-rt kernel
<knome> docs is relatively easily portble
<mozmck> it's packaged, but not in *buntu
<Unit193> UbuntuStudio only has a lowlat kernel, not realtime.
<knome> mozmck, what about trying to help it get packaged in ubuntu instead of using time to create a new derivative?
<Unit193> A kernel?  Ehh.
<Unit193> http://bugs.debian.org/552772
<ubottu> Debian bug 552772 in wnpp "RFP: linuxcnc -- a free and powerful machine controller" [Wishlist,Open]
<knome> i believe the US team is working to get the regular kernel use parameters for RT stuff
<knome> or something
<mozmck> Well, I think it would take more time to get it all in ubuntu than use our own derivative.
<knome> contacting them would probably be a good idea for that..
<knome> mozmck, but potentially help more users, and save you from the maintaining burden, and you'd get the ubuntu community support too
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-15
<Unit193> knome: Not sure if that was agreed upon, so sent the merge. :P
<knome> merge on what?
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/249768
<knome> oh.
<knome> you didn't set me as the reviewer directly so i didn't get the email
<Unit193> Nor for the other one I believe.
<Unit193> I wasn't going to bug you directly on that one.
<elfy> knome: what we really want is - here is link, thread closed
<Unit193> My goodness.
<elfy> your goodness - that's sleep on time?
<knome> elfy, what? where? :)
<elfy> public is great - publically going on and on about how the only way it all works if for *your* choice to be the chosen one is either windows or bollocks
<elfy> knome: here :|
<knome> i'm afraid i'm not getting the context? :)
<Unit193> My guess is the border thing?
<elfy> [01:02] <knome> [19:56:07] both -users and -devel i suppose?
<elfy> that
<elfy> shame we can't link on m/l and then close it 
<knome> oh, heh
<knome> NOW i understand
<knome> the lack of context is that i'm not subbed to the users list
<elfy> sorry - a LOT of word ^^
<Unit193> Ah, that's why I'm lost.
<elfy> nah
<elfy> nothing to do with -users
<knome> oh..
<knome> then i'm lost too :D
<elfy> to do with this is one of those things that would be so much better as a link
<elfy> that people cannot then go on an on about ad nauseam on any m/l about 
<Unit193> I get the idea, concept from forums.
<knome> right... yeah
<elfy> cos it's not going to change 
<knome> fortunately you can always ignore the threads ;)
<elfy> Unit193: not really - concept from 53 years 
<knome> i mean at least we're giving them the possibility to give their input in a way that's meaningful for us
<knome> elfy, i'm sure people have been stubborn before you ;)
<elfy> yea - not got an issue with that 
<elfy> knome: LOL
<knome> so what's the issue?
<knome> or is there no issue?
<elfy> only that it's an un fixable issue so unltimately pointless to discuss
<knome> yeah
<elfy> is all :)
<knome> huzzah, we have 37 responses
<elfy> good
<elfy> I've not seen request yet 
<knome> what request?
<knome> 7 people have told us they want to learn more about contributing
<elfy> to the form
<knome> weird
<knome> i've posted it to both mail lists
<elfy> yea - not seen it here yet :D
<knome> oh *HERE*
 * knome facepalms
<elfy> sorry - long day followed by longer evening ...
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010630.html
<knome> i'm happy that "only" 50% consider themselves power users
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> not looked at results - just the not being proofread :P
<elfy> series ... just for next time :D
 * knome shrugs
<knome> WHO CARES
<knome> :)
<elfy> so does elfy 
<elfy> shrug that is :;
<knome> haha
<elfy> oh damnation
<knome> what now
<elfy> just noticed something - if you fail to add e-mail address and then say you want us to contact you - it doesn't give you a "oops"
<knome> the oops is that you didn't pass the IQ test, so you shall not be contacted
<knome> more seriously, we might want to fix that for the next survey
<elfy> excellent
<elfy> needed an out for April the after :D
<knome> i don't think it's a huge issue :)
<elfy> me neither - but, while it's entirely likely that none will do that - perhaps a step we should sort out next time
<knome> yep
<knome> and maybe we want to improve the whole contact stuff altogether
<elfy> mhm
<knome> i don't know how yet...
<sidi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11095 this bug needs testing from Xubuntu 14.10 users please!
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11095 in General "Desktop Settings no wallpaper choices shown" [Normal,Needinfo]
<brainwosh> Noskcaj, xfwm4 4.11.3 adds corner tiling, so bug 1069387 should be fixed too
<ubottu> bug 1069387 in Xfwm4 "tiling should also resize to a quarter of the desktop" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069387
<brainwosh> from the release notes:
<brainwosh> - Add corner tiling
<brainwosh> the upstream report has not been closed yet
<brainwosh> also, bug 1030359 should be fixed now (according to the linked upstream report)
<ubottu> bug 1030359 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Cairo Dock disappear when changing gtk theme" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030359
<brainwosh> and bug 904958 too
<ubottu> bug 904958 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "xfwm4: top border still present when window is maximized" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904958
<brainwosh> Noskcaj, ^
<brainwosh> ochosi, the var name was changed with https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/84992762a9172c526ae7253a1f2e5d734a2d74ef
<brainwosh> should the original names be restored?
<brainwosh> I'm experimenting a bit with the window borders, basically following http://sevkeifert.blogspot.de/2014/12/increase-window-border-size-in-xubuntu.html
<Unit193> Debian #778470
<ubottu> Debian bug 778470 in xscreensaver "xscreensaver: Add support for lighdm "new login" feature." [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/778470
<bluesabre> brainwosh, Noskcaj: xfwm4 4.11.3 uploaded, then saw the tagged bugs posted later, and marked those fixed as well
<brainwosh> bluesabre, awesome
<brainwosh> so, xfce4-settings next? :)
<bluesabre> yup, waiting for ochosi to merge his branch
<bluesabre> working on getting a greeter release out today
<ochosi> bluesabre: was out until recently, hjudt says the branch is leaky, so i'll have to look again before i can merge
<ochosi> brainwosh: the result (thick borders) somehow looks shitty, just look at the border where the toolbar is
<ochosi> i'd rather add some inner border
<brainwosh> it looks ok to me, but adding extra border space to the top seems to be tricky
<ochosi> also, i'm not sure what you're referring to with that greybird commit you linked. the color-pickup was only for the inner border, not the window border
<brainwosh> the pointer variable names
<ochosi> ah, right, well those are just copies
<ochosi> not sure that matters really though
<ochosi> i used to just use symlinks
<ochosi> but yeah, feel free to submit a merge-request, gotta look at other things now
<brainwosh> it does not seem to matter, just noticed it while editing these files :)
<dkessel> slickymaster: the call for german translations has already resulted in new translations :) i am currently reviewing them
<slickymaster> great dkessel. Thanks
<dkessel> ... and we're at 70% :)
<slickymaster> Unit193, knome, is https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/249768 because/based on our discussion of last friday?
<Unit193> slickymaster: I put it there, it's up to you two to decide if it gets merged.
<slickymaster> yeah, I know, but does the MP comes as a consequence of our discussion?
<Unit193> Kind of, I was working on the docs and submitting other merge proposals already.
<slickymaster> yeah saw those also
<slickymaster> can I bother you tomorrow again with the stats on the -docs po files Unit193?
<slickymaster> I won't do anything today, it's almost dinner time and the little one still has to take his shower
<slickymaster> before dining 
<Unit193> slickymaster: Well, not sure what else to tell you.  The po files you get by checking out the branch isn't up to date (easily fixed by merging strings from the pot, but still.)
<slickymaster> ok Unit193, talk to you tomorrow
<Unit193> Yep!  Good rest.
<dupingping> hi guys.
<dupingping> how can i join this team?
<dupingping> with ubuntu member ship?
<ochosi> dupingping: hi
<ochosi> you mean the xubuntu team?
<dupingping> yes
<dupingping> i'll contribute for xubuntu.
<dupingping> https://sourceforge.net/projects/ubuntu-dock/files/?source=navbar
<dupingping> it's my own project named as ubuntu-dock like as MacOSX's Dock
<dupingping> i think that if it's used in xubuntu, xubuntu will be more useful and beautiful.
<dupingping> ochosi, u there?
<ochosi> do you have a link to the source as well?
<dupingping> i did not upload the source yet.
<dupingping> i am going to upload the source in to launchpad.net
<ochosi> ok
<dupingping> are you a xubuntu member or leader?
<dupingping> Can i join xubuntu team?
<ochosi> i'm the project lead, yeah
<dupingping> oh, that's great.
<ochosi> membership is granted through contribution around here, not by me saying "yes" or "no"
<ochosi> i suggest you keep hanging out here, that's a first step towards joining the team
<dupingping> i'll send you my email address, thus we can meet often.
<dupingping> yes.
<ochosi> no need to send me your email address
<ochosi> we communicate mostly on IRC, sometimes on the mailinglist
<dupingping> okay, i'll remember your id at here.
<dupingping> oh, sir.
<dupingping> my time is 4:17 AM
<dupingping> your time is
<ochosi> no need to "sir" anyone here
<dupingping> ic
<ochosi> some of us are in europe, some in the US
<ochosi> and australia too, iirc
<dupingping> i'm in asia
<dupingping> :)
<Unit193> ochosi: But we don't count those people..
<ochosi> Unit193: hehe
<dupingping> see you tomorrow, now i'm very tired for develop the ubuntu-dock
<dupingping> and very late time.
<dupingping> bye
<brainwosh> ochosi, should we tell him about plank and co? :)
<Unit193> Alright, I'm going with LP isn't importing translations from LP...
<Unit193> Why are translations such a pain?!
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/pbdYVOf4cXm84GKaVa9F/ downloaded an export from LP, that's the diff between the one in the repo and..
<Unit193> And in case people didn't notice, the vivid ISOs went the same way as 14.04.2.
<knome> Unit193, heh.
<bluesabre> hm?
<Unit193> vivid has several unity packages (control center, etc), unity-greeter in addition to gtk, qt libs, and even more fun: both xscreensaver and gnome-screensaver.  As if locking wasn't complicated enough. :P
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/7HZrBRWkuUeNOVixOTdU for a look, and I can strip versions to get a cleaner look.
<bluesabre> won't that be resolved with the blacklist definitions in the updated seed?
<Unit193> Nope.  Their breakage, hopefully their fix.
<Unit193> Ah yes, another power manager too!  Just what we always needed!
<bluesabre> yessss
<Unit193> Heh, do they plan to land these type of changes right before FF? :P
<bluesabre> Seems almost typical
<Unit193> Yes, yes it does.
<Unit193> elfy: Might not want to sync images, have the 14.04.2 problem in vivid now.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Hi
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg_: hey
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, Does XFCE or Xubuntu use gsettings at all?
<bluesabre> yes
<flexiondotorg_> I've noticed some odd behaviour.
<flexiondotorg_> Confirmed with Fedora rawhide devs.
<flexiondotorg_> glib2 2.43.3 in 15.04 is not applying all gsettings values straight away.
<flexiondotorg_> For example, in MATE changing a theme not everything is applied until log out/in.
<flexiondotorg_> Or change sound theme settings are not activated directly, requires a log out/it.
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, elfy Can you confirm that gsettings are, or are not, working correctly in Xubuntu 15.04.
<flexiondotorg_> Fedora rawhide suspect glib2 breakage or change in behaviour.
<bluesabre> one sec
<Unit193> bluesabre: Got anything you need assist with?
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg_: it seems to be working correctly here
<flexiondotorg_> So gsettings key/value pairs are working. Other are not.
<bluesabre> xfconf, gsettings both work currently with today's daily
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to package light-locker in -staging for https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/tree/lid-closed (probably a basic patch on top for now)
 * bluesabre is working prepping the lightdm-gtk-greeter release
<bluesabre> on
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, lightdm-gtk-settings ð
<bluesabre> that comes next :)
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, This commit looks suspicious to me - https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=8ff5668a458344da22d30491e3ce726d861b3619
<Unit193> Sounds like fun, bluesabre.  Need it today?
<bluesabre> Unit193: no hurry
<bluesabre> My priorities now are the greeter and mugshot/catfish updates before thursday
<Unit193> Great, the weather is up to -3F, might be time for a walk this evening.
<Unit193> Just remember, ping me if you need me.
<bluesabre> Unit193: ofc, thanks - also need to endorse your packageset app
<knome> mm
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-15
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do
<slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, can you please spread in our media channels https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011033.html
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> another lts upgrade bug - I'm collecting them :p
<flocculant> bug 1545709
<ubottu> bug 1545709 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Failed to upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545709
<flocculant> that one just fails to do much other than fail
<Nairwolf> hi flocculant, do you know if there is a french translator for xubuntu ? 
<Nairwolf> I've seen most of packages are already translated in french ;)
<Nairwolf> it's even translated in some french dialects ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I'm unabashedly English - with the normal English attempt at foreign languages - not got a clue ... 
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: ^^ 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: slickymasterWork will have a better idea than I :)
<Nairwolf> ok
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, 1525955  is another upgrade bug I logged a while ago
<Nairwolf> I'm not sure if you can help me flocculant, I'm looking for the differencies between what is in the french documentation of xubuntu, and what it's still need to be translated on launchpad
<Nairwolf> I've seen some sentences translated in the documentation (and it's in the xubuntu website), but launchpad tells me, it's not translated yet...
<Nairwolf> slickymasterWork, if you see my message, maybe you can help me ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: sorry - I have no idea about translations 
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave: ack - I saw that one yesterday 
<slickymasterWork> Nairwolf, there isn't a single french translator for Xubuntu
<slickymasterWork> at this point 11 people were involved in the translation of the xubuntu documentation into french
<flocculant> oh meh
<flocculant> didn't notice that -proposed was enabled on 
<flocculant> 14.04.4 ... perhaps it'd upgrade ok without that ...
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: done
<slickymasterWork> thanks pleia2 :)
<Nairwolf> okay, I'm going to contact french translators
<slickymasterWork> Nairwolf here's their contact email <- https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-fr-l10n
<Nairwolf> thanks, I've already contacted them in them past ;)
<Nairwolf> But I'm not too much active
<slickymasterWork> ok, ping me if you think you'll need anything else
<Nairwolf> ok
<Nairwolf> oh, just something. Where I can find the official documentation in english ? 
<Nairwolf> I suppose what I need to translate is the doc for 15.04 ? 
<Nairwolf> so, it's not on the website
<Nairwolf> Because I like compare with the entire documentation before translating
<dkessel> Nairwolf: the english one is on docs.xubuntu.org
<Nairwolf> thanks dkessel, but it's not the next version
<Nairwolf> of the doc
<Nairwolf> but maybe it didn't change
<Nairwolf> I've noticed at least one change
<Nairwolf> here : http://docs.xubuntu.org/1510/C/what-is-xubuntu.html#learn-more-about-xubuntu at the paragraph xfce, it's writen "Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment used in Xubuntu"
<dkessel> Nairwolf: the latest is here: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/docs/
<dkessel> (also in french, if you want to compare the output)
<Nairwolf> here : https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/xenial/+pots/user-docs/fr/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=new_suggestions&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all , it's written "Xfce is the lightweight desktop environment used in Xubuntu."
<Nairwolf> ok, thank you so much ;)
<Nairwolf> I'm going to work on that during this week ;)
<dkessel> have fun :) and thanks for helping !
<flocculant> new images - without proposed enabled for trusty 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - assuming we don't get much testing done - I'm happy - I did too many yesterday on vm/hardware 
<flocculant> knome: I assume we don't need to do more than a website announcement for it - not sure a wiki release note is needed
<flocculant> 'same as 14.04.3 - some stuff fixed, some stuff not' 
<knome> unless we have something that is different from the main ubuntu stuff, nope
<flocculant> not afaik
<knome> i don't think we do
<flocculant> if they do a page we can link to it I guess
<ochosi> hey everyone
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> great flocculant, sry, i didn't get anything done myself... :/
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> ochosi: it's live till Thursday if you feel the need to confirm anything :)
<knome> hahah
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> then of course - it's even liver :p
<knome> ochosi, you stepped into the trap
<ochosi> crap :p
<knome> no, Trap
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
 * ochosi slithers away into the dark again...
<knome> C is bad T
<knome> or as you would say it, "sea is bad tea"
 * flocculant shines a torch over there 
<flocculant> OI! image is this way :p
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> flocculant: known and fixed issues are what way?
<knome> if ochosi was gollum, he would have never come out of the cave
<flocculant> and as far as the upgrade fails I was seeing - possibly HWE issues
<ochosi> i guess all i'll be able to do is a clean VM install
<flocculant> ochosi: we were just discssing need for wiki release note is all - I was just saying that as far as I know 14.04.4 is 14.04.3 with some stuff fixed/some not - so not worth the effort :)
<knome> ochosi, i thought you were specialized in dirty things
<flocculant> ochosi: frankly - I'd much rather people thought about next weeks beta milestone than this 
<ochosi> hmm, right, let's do that then
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> what's the status wrt droid btw?
<knome> stale
<ochosi> oh btw, i'll go check gnome-software now in VM
<knome> at least i haven't heard anything
<ochosi> hmm :/
<knome> otoh i haven't poked anybody actively
<flocculant> ochosi: I have it installed on hardware now 
<knome> our burndown looks meh btw: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-burndown
<ochosi> so wait, it's still available in universe, so we can install it by default, or what was the last status quo?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i agree... i still haven't found time/energy to figure out the remaining greybird issue (the linked buttons)
<ochosi> flocculant: you're right, seems like i don't have the printer settings anymore in xenial. so likely gnome-software's fault
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm
<knome> ochosi, i haven't heard of any changes... the last thing i heard was that it would be available from universe
<flocculant> ochosi: got printer here 
<flocculant> you should have system-config-printer-gnome
<knome> ok, time to go
<knome> ttyl
<flocculant> cya tomorrow probably 
<knome> mmh
<knome> maybe
<knome> :)
<ochosi> night knome 
<knome> ochosi, i didn't say sleep you silly
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-16
<bluesabre> knome: why you sleeping people silly?
<knome> nooo
<knome> i'm not sleeping!
<bluesabre> :o
<bluesabre> Trying to figure out what is broken for clutter is a pain
<bluesabre> Well, parole starts now, but the video pops out into its own window
<knome> plop
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> Apparently, cluttersink is now clutterautovideosink
<bluesabre> and has different properties
<bluesabre> after playing with that code for a few hours, no progress
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> G'nighty, bluesabre.
<flocculant> oh good lord - another rebuild 
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I've haven't time to test new version of xubuntu, but how is the next xubuntu 15.04 ? Will it be a good version ? 
<flocculant> 16.04 is looking good :)
<Nairwolf> oh, yes, we are in 2016 ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I'll be wanting as many people as possible to test the beta 1 milestone next week - so you can have a go with that :)
<Nairwolf> oh, good ! 
<Nairwolf> okay, will you send a new mail ?
<Unit193> flocculant: I've got 3 systems on it!
<Nairwolf> great ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: yep - to the -devel list and directly to people in https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<flocculant> Unit193: I knew I could count on you quietly :p
<Nairwolf> where I can find what will be new in this version ? 
<flocculant> and I see where you report things as well 
<Nairwolf> a release notee
<flocculant> Nairwolf: for 16.04?
<Nairwolf> yes
<Nairwolf> is it already writen, or not ? 
<flocculant> there will be a release note and a website page
<Unit193> Figured you might see reports.
<flocculant> ha ha ha - no not even started - I'll do that next week 
<flocculant> Unit193: :)
<Nairwolf> ok, ok ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: I dropped by -dekstop yesterday and dropped the gst issue in there - that'll get sorted now I think
<flocculant> with bugs being marked critical etc
<flocculant> seb got it to fail in rhythmbox 
<Unit193> Nice!
<flocculant> possibly would have been easier to find it fails in rhythmbox I guess :)
<dkessel> flocculant: do you als have "parole displays all videos as green window in xenial"?
<dkessel> also
<dkessel> vlc also only plays half the videos anymore
<flocculant> dkessel: that's a clutter issue afair bug 1513277 
<ubottu> bug 1513277 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not show video when playing DVD" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513277
<flocculant> change to xv to use it
<flocculant> no idea about vlc never use it :)
<flocculant> just so people are aware if they were intending to test trusty - another rebuild happening 'tomorrow' 
<Akxwi-dave> thx flocculant ..  date noted.. :-)
<dkessel> oh good to know!
<knome> Unit193, krytarik: decided which media manager you are going to confess using?
<knome> i'm so happy we have our own wiki now
<knome> the old one is pain to work with (and i just want to make simple edits)
<knome> it's the slowest in ages again...
<knome> flocculant, do we want to keep maintaining https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile somewhere?
<knome> flocculant, same for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware
<flocculant> knome: spooky ... I was looking at them earlier - was going to ask you how to kill profile - not sure about other one yet
<knome> so hwprofile is just obsolete?
<knome> or do we want a redirect?
<flocculant> knome: hwprofile is pretty much obsolete - the only real reason was a copy of the thing that was on the tracker - which is now gone
<knome> yeah
<knome> oh bah
<flocculant> alternatively - replace it with 'really ... '
<knome> pleia2, just that you don't get a heart attack the next time you access a marketing page in the wiki - i have copied most of them to the new wiki with 5 sec redirects on the old pages
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> noted
<knome> pleia2, but obviously if you looked at your email, you'd know this already..
<pleia2> updates from the wiki? the wiki can't email me at the moment, I need to switch off my @ubuntu.com address
<knome> oh
<knome> nvm then
<knome> pleia2, how do you feel about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers ? i would probably just point that to the repository (this page has no information that is useful)
<pleia2> knome: as long as we retain the information that lived on wiki (main details, formats) I think that's fine
<pleia2> could add it to a readme file in the repo or something
<knome> the intro is kept in x.org, the text ideas too, the formats is just for planning (and we don't plan to provide the flyer in *all* of those), and the design *is* in the repository
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> so I think we're ok then
<knome> yeah, i'll point it to the repository
<flocculant> knome: re announcement - website currently points to the .2 announcement/release note
<knome> i don't think we have .3 announcement/notes
<knome> that's why it's doing that
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> yea
<krytarik> knome: Remember my reasoning for not jumping in on the vote earlier?  That's valid for real now! :P  (Not using anything regularly myself currently.)
<knome> i don't... :P
<flocculant> vote? 
<knome> depends on the election i guess :P
<krytarik> â https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-November/010948.html
<flocculant> oh that
<knome> aha.
<ochosi> hey bluesabre, if you wanna get that patch into xfpm you better submit it soonish ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, it might be a good idea to postpone some workitems from development so the focus can be laid on the ones that really should be fixed this cycle (fonts-droid, default LO theme, shimmer-themes packageset, x-core, and a few more)
<knome> if people want to try something new out, there's now a more integrated looking tracker at http://tracker.xubuntu.org/index2.php
<knome> or not really tracker any more - developer area
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-17
<bluesabre> ochosi: will try to submit it this week. If I don't get to expose the setting, I at least want to make the default icon-only (as 1.4.x)
<_Sponge> Bonjour tout le monde !
<ochosi> bluesabre: alright, fine by me
<knome> hmm.
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://ubottu.com/y/xx | Wiki: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/ | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: http://ubottu.com/y/xx | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<knome> narf
<knome> http://dev.xubuntu.org/ points to the new integrated style now, but is still WIP
<knome> everything should work though, might just look silly
<Akxwi-dave> looking good knome .. Although the calendar doesn't show in Midori.. shows up fine in Firefox..  :-)
<Akxwi-dave> doesn't show in Chrome either...  
<slickymasterWork> knome, the calendar isn't showing in Chrome, also
<slickymasterWork> :)
<bluesabre> I can confirm that
<bluesabre> JS errors...
<knome> isn't showing as in the tab doesn't seem to load at all or the calendar iframe isn't visible?
<knome> also, is the calendar showing in tracker.xubuntu.org?
<knome> ^ there's been some weird "doesn't load" issues for me too
<bluesabre> status_workitems.js:296: Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token =
<bluesabre> status.js:102: Uncaught ReferenceError: wi_clear_all_filters is not defined
<bluesabre> knome: tab opens, big blank area for the calendar
<knome> weird
<knome> i don't see those js error either
<slickymasterWork> the iframe isn't visible at all knome 
<slickymasterWork> no getting any js errors either
<knome> weird
<knome> bluesabre, your line:
<Akxwi-dave> same as slickymasterWork for me .. completely white where it should be
<knome> function wi_clear_all_filters( refresh = true ) {
<knome> that's standard definition
<knome> well, for a new version
<bluesabre> knome: just saying what chromium tells me
<knome> (eg. ecmascript2015)
<knome> yeah, but that's also why you get the other message
<knome> slickymasterWork, Akxwi-dave: so is it visible in tracker.xubuntu.org?
<knome> because if you do, then that's weird
<Akxwi-dave> no its not for me..
<bluesabre> knome: also does not work on tracker currently
<slickymasterWork> nopes, also
<bluesabre> same js errors displayed
<slickymasterWork> not getting any
<Akxwi-dave> thats on both Xubuntu versions and windows versions.. both whitespace..  FF works fine on both OSes
<bluesabre> works fine in firefox
<slickymasterWork> same here knome, both in windows and xubuntu
 * slickymasterWork doesn't have ff :P
<knome> right, so chrome-specific
<knome> ok, i'll look at it
<knome> but now, lunch time
<Akxwi-dave> it actually looks really good in FF with the new style
<slickymasterWork> enjoy knome 
<Akxwi-dave> enjoy lunch..
<bluesabre> enjoy knome lunch
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> D:
<knome> slickymasterWork, does wiki or irc work for you? :P
<slickymasterWork> no knome 
<knome> yeah
<knome> good job chrome
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> do they work now?
<slickymasterWork> give me a second, please
<knome> sure
<knome> i'm not on the back of a rabbi(t)
<slickymasterWork> still the same, knome :(
<knome> i don't believe
<knome> do a hard refresh
<slickymasterWork> none of the three work
<slickymasterWork> ok
<slickymasterWork> no difference knome 
<slickymasterWork> wait
<knome> slickymasterWork, and you are looking at dev.xubuntu.org?
<slickymasterWork> they're working now
<slickymasterWork> 1o/
<knome> yeah, wait; the loading is happening only when you open the tab
<knome> so there will always be a small delay the first time you go to one of those tabs
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, the three are functional now
<knome> good good
<knome> so it was actually what bluesabre said
<knome> chrome can't handle the parameter, so it'll just decide none of the JS should work
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> \o/
<knome> ok, so next i'll ask you for your opinion on a few things
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll be around for another 45 minutes
<knome> since we've been using the ubuntu wiki, does anybody else of you feel like the wiki edit button should be at the left top? :P
<slickymasterWork> I'm not particularity vehement about its position 
<knome> you'll notice if you are when you edit 20 pages
<slickymasterWork> bottom right would be my choice, if you'd ask me
<bluesabre> def not bottom
<bluesabre> or maybe a second one at the bottom
<knome> yeah, not bottom :|
<bluesabre> knome: like <nav> [Edit]
<knome> i'm actually thinking of getting rid of the whole bottom bar as it is now
<bluesabre> ?
<knome> maybe
<knome> but it isn't nav really :)
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> <breadcrumbs> [Edit]
<bluesabre> ^ much longer to type
<knome> i don't even know if it's meaningful to show the page filename
<knome> the other thing i don't know if we need is the breadcrumbs :D
<bluesabre> I think they can be handy here, since there is not an easy way to get back up otherwise
<knome> yeah, for that i'm considering to creating a dokuwiki plugin
<knome> that shows all the siblings/children/parent on all pages
<bluesabre> nifty
<knome> in a somewhat compact form
<knome> the whole wiki is hard to navigate now
<knome> because we haven't used to link to all pages from all pages
<knome> only the header - but that just gives you the "start" pages anyway
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> hf
<flocculant> leaving this while I *am* connected - rebuilds up - would like to see *some* results on the tracker which aren't mine :)
<knome> noble thought
<flocculant> followed by a sighing one :p
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> knome: re edit button position - I logged out and logged in because I thought I wasn't - because I couldn't see the edit button :D
<knome> yep
<flocculant> just thought I would add my pennyworth :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll trade you, 100 tests from me for fixing the clutter integration in parole
<knome> i'll trade the website code maintaining too :P
<bluesabre> thats all i've done for the past few days
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> but not for the clutter stuff
<flocculant> bluesabre: if I could I would :)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: are you still seeing bug 1395323 - cos I'm not
<ubottu> bug 1395323 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword opens multiple windows when spacebar is pressed, until a new file is opened" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395323
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - I'll be ahppy to mark trusty ready whenever - just need ack's
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1546695 
<ubottu> bug 1546695 in thunar (Ubuntu) "USB remounted following eject" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546695
<flocculant> not sure what anyone wants me to provide
<dkessel> flocculant: USB stick or harddisk? I always thought it was a problem with my harddisk...
<dkessel> Maybe dmesg? Sometimes contains info about mounting and such
<pleia2> in case others haven't seen yet: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-February/004785.html
<pleia2> not sure how much we can get directly involved in supporting bits of the move to gnome-software, but worth a look if we have bored devs (hah hah)
<knome> and i guess we should fix our own packages if/where needed
<pleia2> seems like decision time regarding the installer in general is due soon
<pleia2> but I haven't had the bandwidth to keep up :\
<knome> that's fine, we have bots... i mean people like Unit193 taking care of it
<pleia2> <3 Unit193 
<knome> oh right, we have a meeting today
<pleia2> we do
<knome> go me
<Unit193> >_>
<knome> wednesday is my board gaming evening
<pleia2> the wiki is read only, so we can't add anything to the agenda
<branau> knome: Is that a Xubuntu community meeting ?
<knome> so i might normally only free about these times, and be kind of exhausted
<knome> branau, yes
<pleia2> unless we moved that? :)
<branau> knome: What time is it? I keep meaning to attend them but I always miss the times
<knome> branau, in 1 hour, 22 minutes
<pleia2> branau: 1hr 20 minutes, here
<branau> Sweet, thanks
<pleia2> branau: we'd be glad to have you :)
<pleia2> moar participants \o/
<branau> knome: Not sure if you remember or not, I talked to you a few weeks back about helping out with the site
<knome> pleia2, i was thinking whether there should be some community force in an EditorGroup in the ubuntu wiki
<branau> pleia2: Thanks! >D
<knome> branau, now that you say that, i can vaguely remember
<branau> :D
<pleia2> knome: should be, I'm thinking similar to what we proposed for the help wiki
<branau> knome: Olin suomessa myÃ¶s
<knome> branau, oh right :)
<branau> hahah
<knome> branau, we just got a few fixes landed on the website at the beginning of this week
<branau> knome: Ah I missed em?
<branau> Dang
<knome> and i've been working with dev.xubuntu.org the last few days
<knome> mostly small ones, probably the most prominent one is the header art change (no image now, just rotated elements)
<branau> knome: You got a list somewhere of tasks that still need to be taken care of?
<knome> and when i say elements, i mean div::before and div::after
<knome> there aren't any outstanding bugs or features TBD at the moment
<knome> but this page: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-x-web
<knome> or http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-x-web for the more integrated (but WIP) looks
<branau> knome: Well cool, feel free to ping me if you need/want any help on anything specific. Looks like all these tasks have been distributed already, no unassigned ones haha
<knome> branau, so anyway, welcome to join the meeting
<knome> branau, well, even being assigned to somebody doesn't mean "don't touch it"
<branau> knome: Thanks! I'll be sure to stick around and participate a little, I am at work so I don't make any promises haha
<branau> knome: And fair enough
<knome> and all work items need to be assigned to *somebody* (or some team)
<branau> Gotcha. Well sign me up! I'd love to help out. 
<knome> but granted, some of the work items might be a bit cryptic or at least not all clear regarding what you should do...
<branau> Yeah, is there anywhere that has a bit more descriptive tasks?
<knome> branau, we were creating a webapp for handling wallpaper contest submissions, but that's quite halted atm, and we're not sure if the codebase we have will be useful
<knome> no, not really; usually when the work item is cryptic it means somebody is probably on top of the issue
<knome> for some items which seem to be broad ones, there can be a description in the whiteboard
<knome> you can access them from the overview page in the tracker
<branau> knome: Gotcha. And what happened with the wallpaper contest? I remember you telling me about that
<knome> we probably will talk about that on the meeting today...
<krytarik> â https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039211.html
<knome> bluesabre, ping! :P
<knome> krytarik, ughh.
<krytarik> Yep.
<krytarik> I laughed.
<flocculant> dkessel: yea - external drive
<knome> krytarik, if you are subbed, please reply to them saying we object and that we will touch our own packages ourself when we know what we want to do
<krytarik> I'm not.
<knome> or if you are planning to subscribe
<knome> ;Ã
<krytarik> I'm not.
<krytarik> :D
<knome> no?
<knome> booo
<flocculant> I is - I can sya whatever we need
<knome> flocculant, say what i said above
<knome> flocculant, basically, "The Xubuntu team will take care of updating our own package (xubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-default-settings), so no need to touch those packages. Thanks!"
<knome> s/package/packages/
<knome> and maybe s/touch those packages./touch those./
<Unit193> I was going to poke him, but he's not on IRC.
<knome> i like people who are not on IRC
<knome> not
<Unit193> Nono, he's on, I've talked to him before.  Just not now.
<knome> as i said... i don't like people who are not on IRC
<knome> ;P
<Unit193> Haha. :P
<knome> thinking of you bluesabre and ochosi 
<Unit193> I've not been on IRC...
<krytarik> flocculant, knome: Don't forget about xubuntu-docs, btw.
<knome> krytarik, it's not listed on the list he put up though
<Unit193> And the brokenness of fop?  Yeeeah...
<flocculant> oh buggar - in moderation ... 
<flocculant> we know about this issue and will deal with any of our (Xubuntu packages etc) once we know what it is we want to do. 
<knome> flocculant, lol, i was referring to "being subbed" because i wanted to avoid that :D
<knome> or are you saying the filters found unwelcome words in your mail :P
<flocculant> I thought I was subbed
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> hah...
<knome> i wonder how we are supposed to interpret that
<flocculant> sent it direct to the OP too now
<flocculant> just woken up to the fact there's a meeting soonish
<knome> yeah
<knome> good morning, flocculant's brain
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> right, so meeting agenda is still on uneditable wiki, should we move that now/soon?
<pleia2> (for those not keeping up, wiki.ubuntu.com has been locked down for a day)
<knome> if we need to edit, there's a "Meetings" start page on the new wiki already
<pleia2> that made the wiki explode when I went to it
<knome> but we can't do includes yet (i haven't installed/enabled a plugin that does that)
<knome> :D
<pleia2> oh :)
<pleia2> still
<knome> hmm.
<pleia2> Server error
<pleia2> 500
<pleia2> when I clicky on meetings
<Unit193> You can likely talk to Canonical about it, saw one pop in to #ubuntu-ops the other day.
<_Sponge> Hiya pleia2
<pleia2> o/ _Sponge 
 * knome goes look what's wrong with the page
 * _Sponge thinks he's cseen pleia2 on flickr :-)
<pleia2> Unit193: yeah, there's a big loop happening with discussion on the status (on ubuntu-community-team list too)
<_Sponge> **seen#
<_Sponge> **seen
<pleia2> _Sponge: no doubt :) I post a lot
<Unit193> Fun, fun.
<_Sponge> good to talk, to you. Any books in the making ?
<pleia2> _Sponge: working on an openstack book right now, and 9th edition of official ubuntu book after that
<_Sponge> right-oh
<knome> 23:44 @neale: okay, wiki should be read-write again
 * _Sponge wonders if he could get a signed ubuntu book off ple
<slickymaster> it doesn't appear so, knome 
 * _Sponge wonders if he could get a signed ubuntu book off pleia2 ??
<knome> slickymaster, i'm thinking you might be hitting the cache again, as usually :P
<knome> slickymaster, so i won't believe you until you repeat that 10 times in the next 10 minutes
<slickymaster> no, I'm on my laptop now
<pleia2> _Sponge: drop me an email when the 9th edition comes out and I'll see what I can do :)
<_Sponge> cheers !
<knome> pleia2, the meetings page seems to work now
 * _Sponge slides pleia2 a warm mocha :)
<knome> pleia2, on the new wiki, that is
<pleia2> knome: thanks
<pleia2> knome: oh yes, lovely
<knome> it might be related to the plugin that i wrote that allows us to use moinmoin-style comments
<_Sponge> pleia2: Do you have www.xubuntu.wiki  ...yet ?
<knome> (only # required and only on the beginning of the line, the dokuwiki plugins all seemed to require an opening and closing tag)
<pleia2> _Sponge: wiki.xubuntu.org
<knome> _Sponge, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/
<pleia2> knome: I think it's ok to use the doku wiki syntax, yeah?
<Unit193> pleia2: BTW, you don't need server stuff help, right?
<Unit193> At least, not from me.
 * _Sponge was just interested if xubuntu had bought it :)
<knome> pleia2, actually dokuwiki doesn't support comments by default
<pleia2> Unit193: I can handle day to day keep-system-upgraded, but if we add more services I tend to like having support running those
<pleia2> Unit193: currently knome seems to have all that under control though
<knome> pleia2, but there's also a usability issue with the comments; when you quickly want to remove/add a comment, it's so much better that you can do that by editing the first character of the line
 * flocculant wanders off for a bit
<pleia2> Unit193: it would be good to have a backup admin with keys to the castle (both linode and root)
<Unit193> Great!  I had asked if I was slacking somewhere that I'd forgotten, and he said poke you.  Glad I'm not!
<knome> that was ultimately what made me write the small plugin
<pleia2> Unit193: so if you want to volunteer there, happy to share those keys :)
<pleia2> knome: I see
<pleia2> flocculant leaves right before the meeting, I see how it is
<Unit193> pleia2: I'll do whatever you need me to do.
<Unit193> ...I should likely pickup a wiki account sometime.
<_Sponge> there's a meeting ??
<knome> pleia2, now! dump ALL the work to him!
<knome> _Sponge, in 9 minutes
<_Sponge> right-oh
<pleia2> Unit193: gpg key in lp current? (will send encrypted file with creds)
<Unit193> knome: Oh, so meetingology output is moinmoin, that doesn't match dokuwiki I'm going to presume.
 * _Sponge runs to the fridge for munchies.
<pleia2> ((may not do it today))
<knome> Unit193, that's the other thing.
<Unit193> pleia2: Yes it is.  I can also toss you a ssh key.
<pleia2> Unit193: okie, that will help with setting up user account
<knome> i'm clearly a lost cause, no gpg mails :P
<flocculant> knome can join flocculant's club
<Unit193> I sign random things sent to xubuntu-devel@ :3
<pleia2> knome: I don't sign or encrypt emails really anymore, just send encrypted files
<knome> heh
<knome> not to me!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> I do it for persistent credentials, not "change this when you log in or I'll send in the hounds"
<knome> heh
 * _Sponge returns with coffee & Danish ;-)
<_Sponge> have we started yet ?
<flocculant> are we there yet? 
<knome> you would have noticed if we did :P
<_Sponge> I'd like to free political prisoners !
<slickymaster> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 17 22:00:13 2016 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slickymaster> Welcome all to the Xubuntu community meeting.  The agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymaster> Who's here for the meeting?
<knome> o/
<_Sponge> o/
<krytarik> o/
<Unit193> o/
<krycek> \o
<_Sponge> I'm happy to volunteer to run the 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest, if anyone's interested.
<pleia2> o/
<flocculant> o/
<slickymaster> #topic Open action items
<slickymaster> Volunteers for running a 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest
<knome> so basically, here's where we are now:
<slickymaster> knome, I think that is one of yours
<knome> bluesabre was seting up a webapp that would be used to handle the submissions
<knome> that's been set up, and i've worked with it a bit too, but...
<_Sponge> yeah ?
<knome> ...it's likely not what we want to use for submissions
<pleia2> x_x
<slickymaster> what are the issues with it, knome?
<knome> so basically we'll need a new webapp, or we need to use something that is ready to use
<_Sponge> so it's broke ?
<knome> slickymaster, the biggest issues are that it doesn't really do what it is supposed to do, and there's a lot of overhead in the code
<_Sponge> flickr ?
<knome> flickr means the people submitting their images should have an account
<_Sponge> and ?
<knome> and it's not open source.
<slickymaster> exactly
<_Sponge> most photographers do.
<_Sponge> mediagoblin ?
<knome> we aren't only looking for photographs, and we also are trying not to exclude people
<knome> the starting point with the webapp was that it would be accessible with a launchpad account
<pleia2> do we have a list of criteria for what we need? (I know we've talked about this a bunch of times)
<pleia2> licensing, preference for open source, etc
<_Sponge> yeah, but it's broke, right ?
<knome> which is something you pretty much need to contribute anything anyway
<knome> pleia2, for the webapp or the submissions?
<pleia2> knome: yes :)
<knome> yes to what?
<pleia2> they are one in the same
<knome> well
<pleia2> the webapp should support our criteria, or we should find something that does
<knome> i meant the submissions as in the images
<knome> but yeah, the webapp...
<knome> i'm happy if it's open source
<_Sponge> nme
<knome> if it can handle the voting, that's a bonus
<_Sponge> ** me too.
<pleia2> ubuntu uses flickr, I think ubuntu studio has been as well
<slickymaster> the studio folks used flickr for theirs, but as knome pointed out it's not open source
<krycek> Their last one was on flickr, yes.
<slickymaster> https://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntustudiocreations/pool FWIW
<flocculant> lubuntu do as well afaik
<_Sponge> Crumbs, 10 minutes in, and we've not changed anything, yet.
<knome> if we do flickr, then we might as well support all social media outlets - as long as we can access the submission somewhere...
<_Sponge> Xubuntu G+ ?
<knome> including google+, but not limited to
 * _Sponge means the google community.
<pleia2> I'm going to draw the line there, using a bunch of services just makes it horrible
<knome> because we really don't want to lock in to any specific platform, especially if it's not controlled by us
<_Sponge> Who's in charge of the Xubuntu Gplus community ?
<knome> pleia2, i don't think that's optimal either.
<pleia2> either we use one proprietary, or we keep on track for writing our own
<knome> and i'm going to draw the line here - we won't use g+
<branau> Something like that could be set up with WordPress pretty easliy
<knome> :)
<pleia2> _Sponge: a few or us have admin access, but the G+ has very poor image support these days, I don't think they even have the concept of licensing
<pleia2> and it's hard to collect for something like this
<branau> WordPress is open source :D
<knome> i believe that we should still write our own
<pleia2> knome: me too
<slickymaster> +1
<_Sponge> yeah, do a wordpress :)
<knome> it would "only" need to support openid login (for launchpad), and uploads
<branau> knome you mean like completely custom? No frameworks period?
<flocculant> knome: that's fine - but it's almost b1 - how long do we wait? 
<knome> frameworks are okay as long as they don't get in the way they did with the current one
<branau> which framework was used?
<flocculant> and will people be around right at the last minute to decide which we use
<knome> symfony2
 * _Sponge wanders off to OSS bed
<knome> the problem was that bluesabre was the only one who really got familiar with it, and i would say even his level of familiarity wasn't very convincing
<_Sponge> night night
<knome> (sorry bluesabre!)
<knome> night _Sponge 
<slickymaster> night _Sponge 
<knome> branau, what would you suggest?
<flocculant> cya _Sponge 
<slickymaster> flocculant, did raise a valid point, which is time
<branau> https://wordpress.org/plugins/openid/
<branau> Looks like there's a WP plugin for openid logins
<pleia2> yeah, the xubuntu site certainly uses one (not sure which)
<knome> we are using that, but tbh, writing a wordpress plugin for the submissions itself sounds like a bigger job than creating the whole app from the scratch
<branau> I've done extensive work with WP and even done some custom plugin work for a few sites, so even if this plugin doesn't work, it shouldn't be too much work to get it up and running
<pleia2> knome: that's my worry too, but if branau wants to volunteer :)
<knome> pleia2, it's that one, plus some specific launchpad integration ones
<pleia2> knome: I think we'd run our own wordpress install for this though, not try to get the plugin accepted for xubuntu.org
<knome> pleia2, totally
<pleia2> we can even tear it down at the end and start new each cycle
<branau> pleia2: I'm happy to volunteer :D
<branau> I don't think we'd need a plugin for submissions though
<knome> branau, with what kind of schedule?
<pleia2> so it's not a long term maintenance problem, we can back up the photo submissions themselves somewhere static
<branau> A simple form should suffice.
<pleia2> would this require the user to have a login to wordpress?
<pleia2> (or openid)
<pleia2> and would they be able to review/adjust their submission?
<knome> i actually just read about the file uploads in wordpress, and the right way (tm) to do it...
<knome> that said, if it's not going to be long-term storage, i think we could just do with a simple form
<knome> without logging in
<pleia2> knome: I'm inclined to agree, but I also want it to be a decent experience for submitters, did it actually go through? are they on the list of nominations?
<knome> well, we likely want people to log in...
<pleia2> black hole submissions are not a good user experience
<knome> yes.
<knome> and no login means anybody can spam the site potentially
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> with no way to block them
<knome> yep
<knome> branau1, did you drop out? what was the last comment you saw?
<branau1> Sorry, I think I got disconnected a minute
<branau1> 4:15:51 PM - pleia2: [â¦] o it's not a long term maintenance problem, we can back up the photo submissions themselves somewhere static
<branau1> 4:15:58 PM - branau: A simple form should suffice.
<branau1> 4:16:38 PM - branau: knome: Depends on when we need this. I work 9-5 usually so in the afternoons I'm generally free.
<branau1> 4:16:42 PM - branau: Weekends I have tons of free time
<branau1> That's the last I saw
<knome> ok, i'll PM you what you missed
<branau1> Thanks
<branau1> #thirdWorldCountryInternet
<knome> ok, done
<knome> so my thought here is
<knome> the user logs in to wordpress using their launchpad account
<knome> along with the requirements we just set
<knome> now, to do things right, and since the user is logged in, they should use the built-in media manager in a way
<pleia2> which makes them agree to terms and licensing for the submission
<knome> but potentially extended in a way that allows them to select license/attribution/etc
<knome> in other words - a custom form that uses the media uploader
 * pleia2 nods
<branau> Sounds good
<knome> once that's done, they should see their submissions - but only their submissions - on the admin - on another custom view
<knome> and edit them
<knome> again, if possible, via the built-in media manager
<flocculant> can I just say something here
<knome> yes
<krycek> Also, UIF is March 10th.
<branau> Doesn't sound too tough to set up, I'd be willing to bet that half of these can be managed via plugins
<knome> krycek, these aren't default wallpapers, no need for UIF
<knome> branau, that's the problem; the plugins are designed to do what they do, not this custom case
<flocculant> it is now almost week 18 of 26, so we need to see this all up - then advertise it - hope to get people send things in - choose which one(s) we use - get that in the seed
<knome> flocculant, ack.
<branau> knome: Plugins can be modded :D
<flocculant> I'd be a lot more interested if we were in week 8 
<knome> flocculant, if we start taking submissions on week 20, we can allow them for 2-4 weeks and still have time to drop them in the seed
<knome> flocculant, i know that isn't ideal, and my target is ASAP
<pleia2> flocculant: indeed, it's unfortunate that it's so late for an LTS
<pleia2> but here we are
<pleia2> maybe it'll make it more exciting :D
<flocculant> knome: right - so 2 weeks to get it all set up - and hope we get submissions
<knome> flocculant, if we don't, then there will be no community wallpaper package
<knome> :P
<knome> branau, true, but all that makes me think that it would be simpler to create our own
 * flocculant just shakes his head - we should have had this discussion properly weeks ago 
<knome> flocculant, actually, we did, then bluesabre took his time and the path didn't lead anywhere
<flocculant> not that I'm blaming anyone - I'm just as capable of shouting that we should be sorting something out 
<knome> flocculant, but as pleia2 said; here we are
<flocculant> knome: ack - I know that :)
<knome> (and i'm not blaming bluesabre either)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> branau, so again about the schedule... do you think you could have a PoC setup for us this weekend?
<pleia2> branau: no pressure ;)
<branau> knome: PoC?
<knome> proof of concept
<pleia2> proof of concept
 * knome high-fives pleia2 
 * flocculant types slower ... 
<branau> Ah, you mean like a demo?
<pleia2> branau: yeah
<flocculant> yea
<knome> well, like a demo that can be iterated to the final version
<slickymaster> knome, will you look into the WP plugins possibility with branau?
<knome> my point of view is that we should write our own, so i'm kind of reluctant to do that ;)
<knome> but i can help with it
<branau> Sure, where exactly would I host it?
<branau> I have a personal website
<branau> With unlimited storage
<knome> that works if you are willing to use that
<pleia2> might start with a personal site, we'll move to our community server when it's ready for production
<branau> Yeah, it won't be a problem
<knome> ^ what pleia2 said
<knome> and i can test it on my host once it's in a point where we start thinking of moving it to make sure it can be moved
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<branau> Cool, if anyone else wants to contribute to it then I can get ftp credentials set up
<knome> branau, if you can be around in this channel, that would be *very* good
<knome> branau, i would actually prefer if we had a repository for it
<branau> knome: I usually am, just not actively. I have it open
<slickymaster> can I action this knome, so we can move along?
<knome> i'm fine with bzr in launchpad or git in github
<slickymaster> #action knome and branau will look into the WP plugins possibility with branau?
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and branau will look into the WP plugins possibility with branau?
<branau> knome: I was going to set it up in git, have a preferred VCS?
<knome> branau, i have a github account (knomepasi), that works
<slickymaster> can we proceed?
<krycek> And, Launchpad does git too now.
<pleia2> we tend to use bzr on launchpad, but it's not a blocker (I can use github too)
<knome> let me think for 30secs
<pleia2> krycek: indeed
<pleia2> and launchpad is open source, github is not ;)
<knome> heh
<branau> knome: I'm much more familiar with git, but I can set it up however you prefer
 * pleia2 stops being a problem
<knome> branau, git works, no problem for me
<pleia2> yeah, git's fine
<knome> branau, so, to summarize:
<knome> let's be in touch (daily, if possible)
<knome> and if you need something, feel free to ping me
<knome> from finding a plugin to writing code
<knome> and from the webapp requirements to whatnot
<slickymaster> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> let's set sunday night as the deadline for a PoC that is functional in some way
<branau_> Got disconnected again
<knome> #action knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21
<branau_> Last I saw was let's stay in touch daily 
<knome> ok, i'll paste you in PM again
<branau_> Thanks 
<slickymaster> ok, moving on
<slickymaster> #topic Updates and Announcements
<slickymaster> Vivid was EOL on February 4th <- https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2016-January/000203.html
<Nairwolf> knome: what is a PoC ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, proof of concept
<slickymaster> almost two weeks now
<Nairwolf> ok
<knome> is there something we didn't cover with the EOL stuff?
<Nairwolf> branau: in which language you want to write this plugin ? Maybe we can talk about that later
<knome> Nairwolf, wordpress, so php
<flocculant> knome: we didn't website it in the end 
<branau1> Nairwolf: WP is strictly PHP as far as I know
<slickymaster> I think that eveyrthing was taken care of, knome 
<Nairwolf> ok, so, not for me
<knome> flocculant, as a blog article, yeah
<Nairwolf> thanks
<knome> but i've removed vivid from the support page
<knome> and from the docs startpage
<flocculant> yep
<krycek> All PPA packages for vivid are gone too.
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/release/15-04/
<knome> that's also up-to-date (since the beginning)
<knome> i think we're fine
<slickymaster> anyone else has any update or announcement?
<flocculant> trusty point release tomorrow
<flocculant> #info trusty point release tomorrow
<slickymaster> there's still time for some late testing
<flocculant> just
<knome> #info knome moved a lot of the wiki pages to the new xubuntu wiki; the old ones are redirected correctly to both the wiki and the contributor docs
<flocculant> slickymaster: I'll be randomly marking it ready at some point tomorrow - after another rebuild lands
<krycek> knome: Got a template page for the meetings yet?
<slickymaster> yeah, saw your ping to ochosi and bluesabre re that earlier today flocculant 
<knome> krycek, no, and we only get the meeting output in moin markup
<knome> so let's keep the meetings archive in the moin wiki for now...
<flocculant> is that an update, announcement or just offtopic :p
<slickymaster> a mixed of the three
<slickymaster> * mix
<knome> mixed
<slickymaster> anything else?
<flocculant> anything I've done is on tracker afaik
<pleia2> knome: anything we should talk about?
<flocculant> oh
<pleia2> Two article series to lead to the 16.04 LTS release
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011031.html
<pleia2> this is a thing
<knome> yes, it's a thing
<pleia2> so if anyone not pitching in wants to, please do
<flocculant> #info 2nd IRC testing session ran - not likely to run those again
<knome> totally
<knome> basially, the media manager stuff is almost taken care of except getting the answers from people
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> for the other series (small details, faq-like series), we will likely need more ideas to choose from and writers too
<knome> as the mail says, the planning happens at http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series
<knome> and again, if any questions, i'm available here or via email
<pleia2> flocculant: sorry to hear the testing sessions didn't work out, but thank you for trying them
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> more or less concurs with testing we get done tbh 
<pleia2> :\
<flocculant> *shrug*
<knome> i think it's great that we did the sessions
<pleia2> agreed
<knome> and tbh, if there is any motivation left, we should probably try to organize more later
<knome> not necessarily only for testing
<flocculant> most people aren't interested until they install a new version and something doesn't work for them - nothing new there :)
<pleia2> tbh people keep telling me they want videos, which breaks my brain, but I guess I understand
<flocculant> knome: not much of that tbh
<flocculant> pleia2: and absolutely none of that :)
<knome> we can do videos, but i don't know how they will help...
<pleia2> maybe next cycle we find someone who is not camera-shy to do that :)
<knome> they will just point to boring stuff (sorry flocculant, but i guess you agree)
<knome> i mean, meh
<flocculant> yup totally
<knome> testing *is* not exciting
<pleia2> knome: the point is that people want to see a video of someone clicking through and explaining step by step how to do it, on a video
<slickymaster> can we move along?
<knome> a video doesn't make it exciting
<pleia2> knome: I hate videos, so I don't understand it, but it's totally a Thing
<knome> flocculant, maybe screencasts with no voice but overlays
<flocculant> slickymaster: I thought we were in discussions without the #discussion
<pleia2> anyway, just tossing that out there, as feedback from the social medias
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> indeed
<flocculant> knome: possibly - but who'd want to watch someone adding a ppa for 5 minutes when it takes 30 seconds to read the words
<flocculant> pleia2: ^^
<flocculant> #discussion
<flocculant> that worked then :p
<knome> flocculant, those who like the videos...
<pleia2> flocculant: the videos should probably be edited to skip through that kind of thing :)
<flocculant> pleia2: why? That's what it would be about
<pleia2> there are people in the world who are good at this stuff
<Guest79749> hi, I just installed xubuntu and updated etc etc, all was fine until I rebooted and the top panel/taskbar has disappeared...can anyone help me sort it out please?
<flocculant> Guest79749: #xubuntu
<pleia2> Guest79749: we're having a meeting right now
<Guest79749> ok ta, soz
<slickymaster> #topic Discussion items
<flocculant> pleia2: there might be - but there appear to be 3 or 4 people active in *test* - not sure any of us are them :)
<pleia2> flocculant: fair enough, just tossing it out there
<flocculant> yea - understand that :)
<flocculant> it is a dry subject :)
<flocculant> install this - did it work? 
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> I know it's not in the agenda but there's something I'd like to ask which is what are our plans regarding USC replacement?
<pleia2> slickymaster: yeah, I was just asking about that before our meeting
<flocculant> pleia2: I'd love to have so many people testing that I had to manage it - as everyone should know 
<slickymaster> I'm asking this mainly concerning about the -docs side of this, because there will be a need for a lot of rewording
<flocculant> perhaps subtopic it 
<pleia2> Ubuntu is making progress on using gnome-software as a replacement
<knome> slickymaster, no idea yet for the final decision
<flocculant> I haz quote
<pleia2> I think our decision needs to be gnome-software vs. synaptic
<slickymaster> #subtopic USC replacement
<knome> pleia2, likely
<flocculant> [18:14:35] <alkisg> one, when will gnome-software actually replace software center?
<flocculant> [18:14:57] <alkisg> and two, I'm upstream + debian maintainer for 2 packages, can I sync them with ubuntu (with the appdata changes) even after the debian import freeze tomorrow?
<flocculant> [18:15:13] <Laney> within days and yes
<pleia2> from today: 
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-February/004785.html
<pleia2> that's about fixing packages related to it
<pleia2> but work is being done
<flocculant> pleia2: yep - catalyst for the above quote from Laney
 * pleia2 nods
<flocculant> and re USC or not 
<pleia2> I think USC makes no sense for us
<pleia2> tbh, never did really :\
<pleia2> but it worked so long as Ubuntu used it too
<flocculant> if USC has been more or less unmaintained for *a while* - would using it for 3 years unmaintained be that much of a problem for us? 
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> slickymaster, what's your take on the deadline for the decision to make sure we have time to change the docs and allow translators to work with it?
<pleia2> until now vital problems have been fixed, with Ubuntu really pulling support we wouldn't even get that
<slickymaster> mid march at the most knome 
<pleia2> I also think there's a problem with the dependencies (python?) but I'm not positive
<knome> slickymaster, can you info that so it gets specifically saved to the minutes
<flocculant> pleia2: currently g-s still fails to see anything for me - so until it does - hard to decide
<slickymaster> what exactly knome? the deadline?
<flocculant> on the other hand - I never use USC and am extremely unlikely to use g-s
<pleia2> flocculant: yeah, it may mean we go back to synaptic
<knome> slickymaster, yes
<pleia2> flocculant: same
<knome> same here
<knome> but we are not the regular users
<pleia2> knome: right
<flocculant> I use synaptic when I'm not sure of a package
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> when i'm not sure, i use apt-cache search
<knome> D:
<pleia2> yeah, I only use the cli
<flocculant> and synaptic afaik doesn't worrk with those bought things
<knome> no idea
<pleia2> I don't know if bought things are much of a thing anymore
<knome> though we can just tell that the people who have bought things they should install g-s
<krycek> And there's translations to keep in mind.
<flocculant> right - that's probably the issue we need to worry about more for 'users' 
<flocculant> pleia2: ok - really not sure - never did that :)
<knome> i don't think it's a majority of our users anyway
<slickymaster> #info Mid March should be the the deadline for a decision regarding the USC replacement, taking in consideration the needed time to change the documentations and allow translators to work with it
<flocculant> I guess as a fallback position I would be happy with synaptic - plus a wiki page of some sort > if you need the things USC had - install g0s
<knome> slickymaster, great!
<knome> flocculant, wiki o.O?
<knome> flocculant, you don't mean docs?
<knome>  :P
<pleia2> flocculant: +1
<flocculant> knome: whatever we want to call it - you know what I mean 
<slickymaster> yeah, that falls more on the -docs that on a wiki page
<flocculant> missing :)
<knome> flocculant, i don't ;)
<flocculant> knome: ok - so as long as it is written somewhere somehow - I am happy with that fallback position
<knome> hehe
<knome> great
<flocculant> also
<pleia2> who is assigned to tracking gnome-software progression in ubuntu so we can intelligently make this decision in a few weeks?
<flocculant> while slickymaster is happy with mid-march for docs we need input from bluesabre or whoever - likely that date is sooner
<knome> i don't think anybody can be assigned to make sure we make intelligent decisions
<bluesabre> hey all
<knome> there he is
<flocculant> bluesabre: hi there :)
<slickymaster> sooner the better flocculant 
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre (speaking of the devil)
<bluesabre> trusty.4 +1 from me
<knome> of course, everything is ASAP
<bluesabre> if thats the question
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :D
<flocculant> no it isn't :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> or rather was earlier :)
<slickymaster> USC bluesabre 
<slickymaster> what's your take
<slickymaster> ?
<flocculant> bluesabre: basically slickymaster is happy with mid-march for docs if we use it - what about you? 
<knome> or in other words, when do we need the decision about the default package manager for 16.04 from your point of view
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> too early to tell since it's still not functional, right?
<knome> regardless what the decision is
<bluesabre> but overall, if its good to go soon, I'll be +1
<knome> eg. when do you need to know how to change the seed
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't know about you - but it still shows nothing not installed
<flocculant> and isn't good at showing what I do have
<bluesabre> right
<krycek> If fop is ever fixed this cycle. :D
<bluesabre> what's the current status overall, or is it still dead for all flavors?
<flocculant> bluesabre: the other option on the table is revert to synaptic + a wiki/page/something along the lines of 'if you need things USC gave you - install g-s' 
<flocculant> bluesabre: hard to tell tbh
<flocculant> I've seen nothing from anyone other than people in -desktop trying to get it sorted and landed properly as default
<knome> *i* would still just want to know when bluesabre needs the decision (whatever it was)
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> ok
 * slickymaster too knome 
<bluesabre> give me a sec....
<flocculant> :D
<knome> gone
<knome> answer now please
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> tomorrow is feature freeze, but I can imagine an exception would be granted for this case (since its still broken)
<knome> totally
<flocculant> almost a cast-iron guarantee :)
<bluesabre> March 10 is UI freeze
<knome> how long are we comfortable to push back?
<knome> we don't have to worry about the UI freeze
<knome> they always want us to contact the art, doc and web teams of xubuntu to make sure they are ok with the change
<knome> that's pretty easy for me
<bluesabre> maybe March 7 would be a good milestone
<knome> but yeah, maybe it's a good target anyway
<bluesabre> gives us 2.5 weeks for testing before final beta
 * slickymaster agrees with that time frame
<bluesabre> or maybe March 10, just to line things up nicely
<flocculant> but does it give us time to pull out? 
<flocculant> for g-s
<flocculant> if we said 'noooooooooope' we'll use synaptic thanks 
<bluesabre> I think that's enough time to pull out
<bluesabre> changing the seed is usually reflected by next day, easily within 2
<knome> flocculant, and for QA, are you comfortable with that schedule?
<knome> (likely the answer is no anyway, but is it in any way non-utopia)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> the thing is - it's not really something I would be comfortable with if the only person I get reports from is me in my sleep
<knome> haha
<flocculant> we'd all need to try and use it if we had it
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> Agreed
<krycek> synaptic it is!
<slickymaster> mm mm
<knome> i guess the idea is that we would all try it before making the decision
<flocculant> otherwise I'm not going to be +1'ing it if it is just me 
<knome> eg. before the deadline :P
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> which relies on it actually working
<bluesabre> yup
<flocculant> so - meet rock and hard place :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: do you know where we stand on that? Are there plans for it to start working soon? :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: mini Laney quote for it landing "<Laney> within days "
<bluesabre> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-February/004785.html yet? 
<bluesabre> not yet
<bluesabre> came in here in a hurry when I saw my pings
<bluesabre> oh that
<bluesabre> yes, saw that
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/index.html is the only bit I've seen that get's a hit from 'xub'
<bluesabre> several xfce components have support for that now
<bluesabre> we just have to confirm things are good in the packaging
<bluesabre> and fix otherwise
<bluesabre> (me, Unit193, Noskcaj)
<flocculant> right
<bluesabre> it's an interesting position currently
<flocculant> anyway - back to g-s - I'll be happy if I see people using it and them being happy with it :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: it is 
<pleia2> flocculant: same
<bluesabre> gnome-software is going to be the new standard, but isn't ready right before b1
<bluesabre> usc probably won't be supported going forward
<bluesabre> synaptic is a crappy experience for new folks
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> and advanced folks just use apt
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :(
<pleia2> s/advanced/old
<flocculant> nowhere for me 
<slickymaster> #action Team members to take the solemn commitment of using g-s from now until March 10th
<meetingology> ACTION: Team members to take the solemn commitment of using g-s from now until March 10th
<slickymaster> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> thanks slickymaster
<flocculant> slickymaster: we can't until it actually works :p
<bluesabre> hopefully sooner than later
<flocculant> yea 
<bluesabre> I'll try to get the packages up to snuff before then
<bluesabre> juggling a lot of things at once lately
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> but from my pov - ok for ubuntu to decide all is hunky dory in April cos they have autotesting - without xfce
<krycek> And free SRUs.
<flocculant> so atm we are in the unenviable postition of not knowing quite yet :)
<flocculant> slickymaster: I'd do an action starting with Once it works
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> we find ourselves here once every other cycle
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<slickymaster> lol
<bluesabre> comes with the -team membership ;)
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> ok, does any one has anything else to say?
<flocculant> on that I am all talked out for the time being :)
<bluesabre> anything else I need to answer before we conclude?
<flocculant> not that I know of immediately 
<knome> bluesabre, what color underwear are you using right now?
<slickymaster> being so, the only left to do is
<slickymaster> #action pleia2 to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule next meeting
<pleia2> aw man
<slickymaster> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 17 23:23:53 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-02-17-22.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> knome: looks like blue :P
<knome> but my question was immediate :P
<bluesabre> waited for meeting to end
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> not straw man
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<pleia2> hehe
<slickymaster> thanks all
<flocculant> thanks slickymaster 
<knome> bluesabre, well done dodging that one :P
<bluesabre> thanks slickymaster, you rock
<knome> "you rock"
<knome> that's rude
<pleia2> btw, I'm traveling next week, so next meeting will be first week of march
<knome> calling other people rocks...
<bluesabre> sorry I mostly missed another meeting you guys
<slickymaster> I will, come May
<pleia2> (I think we're ok to wait that long)
<slickymaster> AC/DC are back in Portugal
<knome> if we want a meeting in between, i can chair that
<flocculant> or I
<knome> now we only need to decide whether we want that meeting :D
<flocculant> or I guess whoever decides we should get one in :)
<knome> i don't have anything special, so...
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> rebuild is off 
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> s/off/started
<flocculant> for those of you not thinking of horses - but a finish :p
<knome> as long as the horses stay their stalls..
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> minutes are up
<flocculant> I see I was noisy again
<knome> nosey
<flocculant> why do we suddenly get the whole logs in the page? 
<knome> :d
<knome> i think because slickymaster copied it
<knome> :P
 * slickymaster likes to give knome the stage
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-18
<jjfrv8> flocculant, aye, still seeing the abiword thing. But only happens with unmaximized window and the mouse cursor is outside the window.
<bluesabre> so with https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039211.html - it's expected that the dependencies should be updated when fonts-droid-fallback is not yet in the archive?
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1546695 - Can't reproduce
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1546695 in thunar (Ubuntu) "USB remounted following eject" [Undecided,New]
<knome> bluesabre, i think the OP is just being too hasty with it
<knome> bluesabre, flocculant tried to send a mail saying we will take care of our packages, but it went to mod queue because he wasn't subbed :P
<knome> bluesabre, but he also sent a mail directly to the OP
<bluesabre> knome: yes
<bluesabre> knome: and yeah, Droid Sans Fallback loses Droid Sans Mono and has a new font name
<bluesabre> which makes it a pain no matter what
<knome> so... i guess it would be frowned upon, but could we just ship the droid font files within xubuntu-default-settings
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> ew
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings 16.04.2 Breaks fonts-droid
<bluesabre> that would not be so nice
<knome> i just don't understand why "fallback" needs to be in the font name.
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> that doesn't make sense.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> its dumb
<knome> fallback to what?
<bluesabre> its a different font name
<bluesabre> so fallback to nothing
<knome> ..to the font that people want to use but that is no longer shipped?
<knome> well i guess so, but meh
<bluesabre> fun cycle
<knome> what happened to xnox working to not get it removed now?
<Unit193> noto is the main, droid is the fallback but Shouldn't Be Usedâ¢
<bluesabre> renaming the font is still dumb
<bluesabre> a site that requests "Droid Sans" isn't going to load Noto Sans
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-fonts/fonts-noto.git/tree/debian/conf.avail/30-droid-noto.conf it won't?!
<bluesabre> Unit193: well, maybe it would
<bluesabre> still makes no sense to rename it
<Unit193> https://github.com/googlei18n/noto-fonts/blob/master/README.md#special-note-on-droid-fonts
<bluesabre> so Noto is the true and only replacement
<bluesabre> I've gotten accustomed to it after having it set for the last week or so
<bluesabre> but it definitely is not a drop in replacement for droid sans :\
<bluesabre> anyway, enough whining from me
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> My turn!
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...mono is drop in.
<Unit193> Terminal is no different.
<Unit193> bluesabre: fonts-noto-mono (20160116-1), try it in your terminal, seriously.
<Unit193> Well, presuming you use droid there. :D
<flocculant> knome bluesabre https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039217.html
<flocculant> jjfrv8: no idea what's going on there then - not seeing it at all 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re thunar - not surprised in the least - you probably have to have exactly the same version of the drive to see it :)
<Unit193> Well there it is in ubuntu-meta:   * Added gnome-software to desktop-recommends
<slickymasterWork> it's a start ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Something like lp:~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/gnome-software
<Unit193> bluesabre: You're not going to believe this, but I'm in favor of switching to Noto.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I guess that if users do not install droid-sans-fallback, the droid-sans package will remain on their system, yes?
<bluesabre> and Xfce gracefully falls back to Sans, so its not incredibly important to handle a migration
<Unit193> Nothing I know conflicts, though the upgrader could remove.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I found them to be close enough, and as noted in terminal no difference.
<Unit193> !info fonts-noto-mono xenail
<ubottu> 'xenail' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xenial-proposed
<dkessel> !info fonts-noto-mono xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-mono (source: fonts-noto): "No Tofu" monospaced font family with large Unicode coverage. In component universe, is optional. Version 20160116-1 (xenial), package size 71 kB, installed size 143 kB
<dkessel> let me help you there :)
<Unit193> I lost interest half way there as I already said the package name.  Anywho, isn't bad.
<bluesabre> yeah, not as bad as it was before
<bluesabre> side by side
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/73C92LA.png
<bluesabre> when I first tried using it last week or so, the font seemed to take up a strange amount of vertical space
<bluesabre> it's still larger, but not as bad as it seemed before
<bluesabre> in some places, the font is noticeably larger at the same font size
<Unit193> Yeah, not saying it's exact (except mono), just close enough may as well use the highly supported one.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: where do you stand on this now?
<bluesabre> heading out now, bbl
<bluesabre> I'll +1 Noto at this point after using it for a week
<bluesabre> (after I have already used it for a week, I should say to be clear)
<Unit193> I have just set it, and it doesn't annoy me enough to comment.  +1 Noto.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any reason xfce4-indicator-plugin would fail to show Qt applications?
<bluesabre> Unit193: missing one of the libindicators mostly like, or indicator-application
<bluesabre> which app?
<Unit193> dropbox, cmst.
<Unit193> Pyqt5, qt5.
<bluesabre> possible that qt5 support is bad
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - marked trusty now - forgetting all about that till next year :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: great!
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: want to install fonts-noto, switch to it and use it for a bit to have some feedback?
<bluesabre> heading out now, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: I will yep
<flocculant> have a day :)
<Unit193> I just installed fonts-noto-hinted and fonts-noto-mono. :3
<flocculant> Unit193: you using mono in terminal? 
<Unit193> Yes.
<flocculant> why would any sane person want -cjk :p
<davmor2> flocculant: ummm because they are Chinese Japanese of Korean I'm just throwing that one out there :P
<davmor2> s/of/or
<flocculant> davmor2: really? 
<flocculant> :p
<Unit193> Or -unhinted?
<flocculant> but what I suppose I really mean is if I install noto-fonts why would I want -cjk
<flocculant> anyway - installed mono and hinted 
<Akxwi-dave> installed them as well..  quite like the look of them.. look a little bigger than the standard.. but so far ok..
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, Whens Beta 1 due?  Need to block out some time to give it a good bash and go over all the  tests again..
<Akxwi-dave> ohh and afternoon all   :-)
<Unit193> flocculant, bluesabre: OK, so xfce4-terminal isn't updating fonts like it should/used to.  Nevermind. >_<
<knome> bluesabre: i've been using noto sans 9 (yes 9) for some time now, and while it's not (as) fantastic (as droid), it's ok and i can mostly stand it
<knome> bluesabre, but yes, i still think it would need to be 9, because that's matching the droid sans 10 line-height and not blow up our UI too much
<knome> bluesabre, for the window title, droid sans bold 9 -> noto sans bold 9 is a fair replacement.
<knome> for anybody wondering; yes, i'm messing up with the wiki stylesheets
<Akxwi-dave> lol.. preferred the one from the other day
<knome> by messing i mean it's WIP ;)
<Akxwi-dave> nice one
<Akxwi-dave> oh and Knome the calendar is also working in midori as well now..  :-) ta.
<knome> good good :)
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave: next week
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, cheers..
<_Sponge> flocculant: How did the meeting, go last night ?
<flocculant> _Sponge: same as ever :) logs are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Akxwi-dave> Sorry couldn't be there at that time.. the wife would have killed me.... was having drinky poo's
<flocculant> so was I ... 
<lbssousa> ajax? whot?
<knome> flocculant, how do you feel about a sidebar in the wiki?
<knome> flocculant, that is, for edit links and other info
<knome> or is that too obtrusive?
<flocculant> knome: not too worried about it - tbh I only wiki when forced too so ... 
<knome> flocculant, so, you would be ok with something Ã¡ la http://wiki.xubuntu.org/ ?
<flocculant> I guess - seems a bit odd on the left - but other than that :)
<knome> left?
<flocculant> meh
<knome> :D
<flocculant> long day :)
<knome> yeah, i probably need to tweak it
<flocculant> looks odd on the right - I'd expect to see it on the left :)
<knome> but this would allow us to keep the consistency with the content area handling
<knome> to me, the sidebar looks odd because the list is so narrow
<knome> so lots of empty spce
<flocculant> then really whatever - I only wiki when forced too :)
<knome> +a too
<flocculant> knome: perhaps look better if search wasn't in sidebar
<knome> now i officially have too many mousepad windows open :(
<knome> maybe some of the links need to be button-y
<knome> oh yeah mono <3
<flocculant> knome: wouldn't logout/userprofile/edit be better in header?
<knome> yes, getting there slowly
<knome> i'm planning to make the header created for all sites in one place
<knome> so we only need to update one file/conf
<flocculant> right - I'm in and out of channel so :)
<pleia2> 14.04.4 is out, I'm kind of swamped over here but if you need my help later w/ updates, lmk and I'll see what I can do
<knome> i shall go update the torrent links
<pleia2> want me to update front page?
<knome> did that
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> anything else?
<pleia2> checking
<knome> social mdia?
<knome> +e
<pleia2> yeah, let's do that
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/processes.html#processes-website-updates
<knome> that tells me it's all we need to do
<pleia2> go us
<pleia2> just linking to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2016-February/000205.html in the social medias
<knome> tweeted
<knome> oh
<pleia2> hehe, that's fine too
<knome> i replied to our own tweet, also linking that
<pleia2> fb and g+ updated
<knome> great
<pleia2> knome: check year on front page
<knome> nooo
<knome> screenshot or it didn't happen
<knome> !!
<pleia2> the years are going to keep coming, whether you like it or not
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> is ok now
<knome> i don't mind the years coming, but could they just use the same number? :P
<knome> or alternatively somebody should write a wordpress plugin that identifies when you have added a date, then looks up if it's close to the day (eg. all january, february and march dates currently), and if it's close to a year number which isn't the year number that is close to the current date, prompt if it was a mistake
<knome> that would likely lose people jobs because what else do people fix on websites but dates?
<pleia2> yeah, humans are bad at such things
<pleia2> computers are good at them
<knome> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-19
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039224.html so I'd guess I hit that.
<bluesabre> Unit193: :D
<bluesabre> Alrighty, I've got the notes mostly in order for a Catfish release this weekend.
<bluesabre> knome: If you'd like, I can go ahead and apply those changes (Noto 9) and proceed from there
<bluesabre> night all
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - thanks for doing that stuff
<flocculant> no release announcement though - still .2
<bluesabre> !team | feature freeze is now in effect: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2016-February/001171.html - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
<bluesabre> I can never seem to team right
<knome> bluesabre, you can't use URLs with factoids
<knome> flocculant, np; and only having announcement for .2 is ok for me too
<knome> bluesabre, i would probably do a quick feedback round on the mailing list before applying the change
<knome> bluesabre, not only because i'd like to hear what others feel about that setting too - with seeing it themself
<knome> ok, the staging site is restricted to logged in users only
<knome> somebody around to test seomthing?
<knome> *something too
<knome> Unit193, first, simply head to http://staging.xubuntu.org/
<knome> Unit193, are you redirected to the login pagE?
<knome> (don't login yet)
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> now go to http://staging.xubuntu.org/contact/
<knome> are you again redirected to the login page?
<Unit193> So it'd seem, yes.
<knome> great
<knome> now log in
<knome> or at least try to - i've no idea what happends, but i expect you're able to log in
<knome> -d
<Unit193> During redirect there was an error, but redirected fine.
<knome> yeah, that's from the openid-launchpad plugin
<knome> so you're now logged in and can see content?
<Unit193> Nope, logged in and went back to content, with the login button again.
<knome> oh, hmm.
<knome> that was unexpected, but in a good way...
<knome> let me do something quickly
<knome> ok, so try logging in now
<Unit193> Didn't seem to, but login gave me the option to pass along that I was in 'xubuntu-team' this time (unchecked)
<knome> well check that :)
<knome> and then try logging in again
<knome> that should enable you to actually log in
<Unit193> Was on contact, figured wouldn't need to.  Done.
<knome> oh you was?
<knome> so... let me do a recap
<knome> the first time logged in, could you see content?
<Unit193> Logging in while trying to get to /contact/ only worked with xubuntu-team.
<knome> great, that's kind of expected
<knome> now that you are in and things seem to work as they should...
<knome> open a tab at http://xubuntu.org/tour/
<knome> and with the current tab, go to http://staging.xubuntu.org/tour/
<knome> i believe you notice the difference
<Unit193> Awwh, can't paste it, have to find and click.
<knome> :D
<knome> about -> feature tour
<Unit193> Presuming of course you mean the top bar.  Yes I did find it. :P
<knome> yeah
<Unit193> (Exactly where I looked.)
<knome> so... you notice the difference? :P
<Unit193> Top bar, black?
<knome> noo
<knome> that's the wp admin bar
<Unit193> Ready to use?
<knome> look at the colored backgrounds
<knome> and notice they don't exist in the staging site really
<knome> which one you prefer (just gut reaction)?
<Unit193> That's what I was referring to, yep.  And, logged in.  The green background is fine, but scrolling down to that other one makes me think too much of old style sites.  Though, the one without a background isn't aligned properly.
<knome> that's the other thing;
<knome> on the staging site, if you scroll down, there are two different styles
<knome> the blue one is spread to the edge of the content area, the pink is contained in the regular padding
<knome> which one of those you like better (without taking the color into account)?
<Unit193> Well considering 'get xubuntu', pink I think.
<knome> yeah, let's see where this goes, but i'll likely change things soon
<knome> so one more thing
<knome> compare the contact pages
<knome> how do you feel about that change? (introducing this "highlight" style for all these smaller boxes too, and a red color for important/warning messages)
<Unit193> Do something with the font?  And the warnings is certainly good.
<knome> mm, like what?
<knome> smaller? bigger?
<Unit193> Everything is a bit condensed, and seems a hair darker.
<knome> yeah, that's because there's more contrast
<knome> and the vertical condensation is intentional; these one-liners would take awfully lot of space if they had the same amount of padding as the larger sections
<knome> but let me try to tweak it to somewhere in the middle
<knome> how about now?
<knome> also changed font color
<knome> that might be too light
<knome> fixed that :P
<flocculant> knome: works for me - just thought I would mention it 
<flocculant> that release note now being 2 point releases behind
<knome> yep
<knome> also, hello flocculant@staging :P
<flocculant> who shouldn't be logged in now :)
 * knome shrugs
<knome> somebody who doesn't care about staging? :P
<knome> but since you read the backlog, feel free to comment on the changes too
<flocculant> not at all - but I'm not logged into it 
<knome> you're not?
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> well
<knome> well i got a mail saying you registered :D
<flocculant> could be - I never really logout anywhere :D
<knome> i don't know if you are "logged in" right now..
<flocculant> oic - well I went to look then closed it 
<knome> hehe
<knome> fair enough
<flocculant> aah ok :)
<flocculant> didn't read the whole back log tbh - got as far as the 'try to login' stuff :D
<knome> hehe
<knome> but good you can
<flocculant> :)
<knome> basically feel free to mess with the content there as much as you please
<flocculant> right
<knome> if you want to try new pages or menu structure or anything
<flocculant> oh 
<knome> i will also play around with new css and features there before landing them to production
<flocculant> so there rather than end up with dead drafts at x.org
<flocculant> sounds like a good plan
<knome> dead drafts on x.org are ok - if the intention is to publish it at some point
<knome> but if you just want to see how it would look... then staging is probably better
<knome> this because if it's even the intention to publish, it's good to have it ready on x.org 
<flocculant> yep ofc
<knome> if it then happens that we don't publish something... it can simply be deleted :)
<flocculant> :)
 * knome should fix teh responsive styles for the highlight boxes next
<flocculant> knome: re pages ... you waiting for dkessel responses? I thought the plan was to start that this week? 
<knome> i am waiting, yes
<knome> it looks like we have like 3-5 articles though, so we're not in a rush
<knome> i was preparing to have like 6-8
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I'd want to see them all published prior to release date - seems a bit silly to not do that
<knome> of course
<dkessel> uh-oh :)
<flocculant> dkessel: ha ha ha 
<knome> dkessel, ;)
<dkessel> So that's what you mean with "no rush" :p
<knome> dkessel, you're the biggest blocker at the moment :P
<dkessel> At least that's consistent with things at work :p
<knome> haha
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> knome: fop upgade in proposed
<flocculant> wait for it ... 
<knome> i am waiting for that too
<knome> does it make fop a distant relative for dkessel?
<flocculant> I meant wait for me to grab it - reboot *just* to make sure and see if building pdf works
<knome> lol
<flocculant> Makefile:109: recipe for target 'user-pdf' failed
<flocculant> it doesn't
<knome> any error if you run the command directly?
<flocculant> what command?
<knome> err, the one that is in user-pdf :)
<flocculant> wouldn't have a clue what command or what user-pdf is nor where it might be
<knome> heh
<knome> ok, so basically, go to the user-docs subdir
<knome> then run the following:
<knome> xsltproc --stringparam paper.type A4 --xinclude -o fo/C-A4.fo ../libs-common/xubuntu-docbook-pdf.xsl C/index.xml
<knome> then
<knome> ../scripts/pdf-create.sh C
<flocculant> yup 
<flocculant> loads ... 
<knome> yes, that should create the PDF
<knome> if not, then it should throw an error
<flocculant> of errors
<knome> lol
<knome> pastebin them
<knome> unless they are the same errors as before
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15133496/
<flocculant> I think more or less the same as before
<knome> ugh
<knome> no, that's something else
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> is it looking for font in the wrong place? 
<knome> likely related to the fact that you ran the command directly
<knome> i'd think
<flocculant> ok - well obviously no idea here
<flocculant> I did my bit - tested it :p
<knome> can test it later today
<flocculant> ok
<dkessel> knome, flocculant : new draft revision of that article is done :p
<dkessel> thanks for pinging me :D
<knome> dkessel, cool, thanks
<knome> and looks good too
<dkessel> tried not to write the same as flocculant everywhere :)
<knome> haha
<flocculant> dkessel: always good to go first :p
<knome> pleia2, you have a minute or two?
<knome> actually, my turn to dash, ttyl
 * pleia2 was out lunching
<flocculant> best call 
<flocculant> Unit193: don't know if you caught ^^ but fop landed in -proposed and it building pdf still fails 
<Unit193> I kind of saw.
<flocculant> elsewhere apparently though :)
<flocculant> k
<Unit193> I just didn't see/know why.
<flocculant> well I have no chance then lol 
<Unit193> Well I didn't exactly look, knome seemed on top of it.
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> bluesabre: not really noticing I'm using a different font for the most part 
<knome> flocculant, with noto sans 9?
 * pleia2 tired
<pleia2> knome: but I have a minute or two if you need
<knome> pleia2, ok
<knome> 1) log in to staging.xubuntu.org
<knome> then go see the following things (and compare them to production):
<knome> - the feature tour
<knome> - contact
<knome> - blog front page
<knome> (the sidebar doesn't have all the widgets we want there on the staging stie, but imagine it does)
 * pleia2 looks
<knome> thanks
<knome> the tour/contact page visual changes have already (mostly) been pushed to the repository, the blog front revamp is still only on staging
<flocculant> knome: yea - set up default here (except window manager) just changed font
<knome> yep
<pleia2> x.o feature tour still shows color across whole screen, rather than highlight on edge that s.x.o has
<knome> pleia2, yes, isn't the idea of staging that we can plan and work on new features there?
<pleia2> knome: I guess I don't understand what you're asking me to do :)
<pleia2> knome: confirm I think the changes are pretty?
<knome> pleia2, i've made these changes; do you like them?
<knome> yeah.
<flocculant> knome: mmm - actually not keen in hexchat
<pleia2> oh ok :)
<pleia2> feature tour is very pretty, yes!
 * pleia2 looks at next on list
<knome> flocculant, i wouldn't know, but i'd also expect an irc client to use a monospace font :P
<knome> the contact page is subtler, but basically it moves the old <blockquote> markup to the same highlight markup as on the tourpage
<knome> (with a bit less padding for blocks with just one <p>)
<knome> and the new red warning/important color too :)
<flocculant> knome: yea but you use a terminal for irc ... 
<knome> flocculant, even if i'd use a GUI client (i've done that 15 years ago...)
<pleia2> yes, contact is nice
<knome> good good
<pleia2> knome: "blog front page" is /blog ?
<flocculant> knome: anyway all that aside - I'm not that bothered if we change
<knome> pleia2, yes
<knome> flocculant, me neither - i'll probably just change back to droid though
<pleia2> I like the old one, it has pretty pictures
<pleia2> full showing of blog posts ftw
<knome> pleia2, the stacking of the blog posts is a bit ugly
<pleia2> no likey "read full article" on /blog
<knome> what about showing one full article?
<pleia2> it's not what people expect
<knome> aha
<pleia2> no, it should just be a feed of all the full posts
<knome> :)
<pleia2> like it is now :)
<knome> ok, then i'll try to see how i can improve the stacking there
<knome> that's good feedback
<knome> also put in some pagination links so people can easily navigate
<pleia2> yeah
<flocculant> knome: it's probably easier to change I suppose
<pleia2> would be nice to go back another 5 posts or whatever in history
<knome> pleia2, wordpress pagination means you can go back one page of posts
<knome> pleia2, and then another
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<knome> pleia2, and another...
<pleia2> it's a default thing, like on my blog
<pleia2> but we have no linky for it on ours
 * pleia2 wants to click "older posts"
<knome> that's one of the default implementations i don't link in wordpress
<knome> *like
<knome> but good good, i'll keep this in mind
<knome> hopefully we can land these changes this month
<pleia2> thanks, nice work!
<pleia2> btw, Unit193 is our backup all powerful wizard on our dev server now
<Unit193> :3
<pleia2> we should probably write this down somewhere on the wiki under admin things
<knome> yes
<Unit193> Quite.
<knome> do we want it public or private?
<pleia2> public
<knome> if latter, put it under /team
<pleia2> just like social media admins, etc
<Unit193> OK, I think it's well past time for me to register on the wiki...
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> Unit193, you did already!
 * Unit193 raises eyebrows.
<knome> i see you in the user list.
<pleia2> probably can add to http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/admins
<pleia2> even if it's not website o_o
<pleia2> maybe we make a /server/admins
<pleia2> then we can also make clear what groups exist for specific sites on the server
<pleia2> (mostly knome for now, but that should evolve)
<knome> i'd probably just put it under website
<knome> it's website related
<knome> or rename website -> web
<pleia2> bikeshedding, I don't care, just want it written down
<knome> i'm on it
<knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/admins
<knome> oh, staging
<knome> pleia2, also, we should talk about maintaining static.
<knome> version control is nice, but in this situation it feels a bit moot
 * pleia2 thumbs up
<pleia2> why?
<knome> (should just move to backups)
<knome> today i wanted to change extras.css
<knome> pushing stuff to CVS, then pulling it from there for a one line change...
<knome> (especially since extras.css is not really static, it's very temporary and dynamic)
 * Unit193 borked on CVS for a sec.
<knome> yes yes VCS:P
<pleia2> lol cvs
<knome> so maybe the answer is actually another subdomain assets.xubuntu.org
<Unit193> knome: In the wiki, calendar and irc tabs work for you?
<knome> Unit193, no, neither the work item tabs
<pleia2> I know it's a pain, but I really don't like steering away from an RCS
<pleia2> seems like over time it'll be more of a pain
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<knome> pleia2, i already have a few uncommitted changes in static... :|
<bluesabre> knome: so, try to get some feedback on the ML, -users or -devel?
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<knome> actually no, only that one
<pleia2> knome: meh
<pleia2> that makes my life hard :P
<knome> no no, it's only that one line
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: Did you create my wiki account?
<pleia2> still, if you get hit by a bus and I want to update/restore the site, I can't
<knome> Unit193, i might have
<knome> ugh. :P
<knome> let me explain
<bluesabre> knome: avoid buses
<knome> i mean i understand your point of view
<knome> and i think it's great for most of the content in static.
<knome> but for extras.css...
<knome> this change is something i'll land to production ASAP
<knome> i have even almost pushed it to the theme repository
<knome> in an ideal world, extras.css is empty
<knome> it's basically my getaway ticket from IS; it allows me to fix things i've foolishly broken in the CSS
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...I saw that movie.
<knome> so basically it's really a part of the website
<knome> which we just happen to keep in *some* url
<pleia2> knome: if it's just that one file, maybe it's ok
<bluesabre> Unit193: entirely possible I have not seen referenced movied
<pleia2> just don't want it to turn into a monster of "just a little edit here and there.."
<pleia2> then it's a 100 line file that we have no backup of
<knome> pleia2, definitely not; *i* want the VCS stuff for majority of the things too
<knome> it just feels silly to throw one-line fixes via that
<knome> because that's what they are - fixes
<pleia2> so long as the one liners are included in the next proper update, religiously :)
<knome> i don't introduce new features via extras.css
<knome> of course
<knome> maybe we should put that subdir on .bzrignore
<knome> or move it to another subdir
<knome> or sth.
<pleia2> break is over, need to get back to actual job now
<knome> yeah
<knome> have fun
<pleia2> always :)
<knome> also, the ownership for static is elizabeth:elizabeth
<knome> just saying...
<knome> (so i can't even touch the files without sudo, which has clearly been intentional :P)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> well played
<pleia2> knome: there's a static group, it's just an oversight
<knome> yeah, until she put me in sudoers ;)
<pleia2> I am not perfect :)
<bluesabre> :o
<knome> pleia2, or did you pull from a repository?
<pleia2> just fix up group permissions with sudo
<knome> does that change the perms?
<pleia2> I don't remember
 * knome considers putting himself in the elizabeth group
<pleia2> sticky bit should have made it preserve permissions in the subdir, but who knows re: bzr
<knome> yeah..
<pleia2> don't be bad
<pleia2> :P
<knome> :D
<knome> identity theft!
<knome> ok ok, get back to work you slacker >:)
 * pleia2 works!
<knome> (j/k)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-20
<bluesabre> flocculant: pushed catfish 1.4.0 to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<bluesabre> flocculant: care to kick the tires before I work on getting it into xenial?
<bluesabre> knome: should I request font feedback on -devel or -users ML?
<knome> DEVEL please
<bluesabre> hehe
<bluesabre> "Why not X-font?"
<knome> comic sans plzz
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> knome: Set terminal to that, all people on IRC really look like idiots then.
<knome> well, let's think if i need to do that to make people look idiots considering the channels i'm in
<knome> hmmm...
<knome> just kidding, you're all fantastic
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: need the [TEAM] tag or no?
<knome> i guess the feedback is mostly open to all
<bluesabre> k
<knome> i would like to get sensible feedback about the legibility in that size etc. from people outside the team too
<knome> not sure if that's a sensible wish though
<bluesabre> knome: http://pad.ubuntu.com/lySO0nj0D4 ?
<knome> sec..
<bluesabre> knome: I'm using 10 for all my sizes, but that's because my resolution is high and eyes are going bad :D
<knome> yeah, it's a bit different with high resolutions
<Unit193> bluesabre: My eyes are crap.
<knome> and DPI affects it too of course
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> basically if you can have a big DPI, bigger font sizes are more OK
<knome> fine with what's on the pad
<bluesabre> oh dang, got mixed up with the channels
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<knome> np
<bluesabre> sending that out
<knome> cheers
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011040.html
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Any chance you could put the new catfish in debian?
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm - still see the oddity with custom dates (but that's not marked Fixed anyway) but this
<flocculant> updatedb reads /mnt - directory audio/j has Jane in it - catfish doesn't see it http://i.imgur.com/OIpxt0U.png
<flocculant> locate find's it fine
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> but if I go *to* j in thunar and 'Find in this folder' it does ... 
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> bluesabre: sorry - if I have custom date set it doesn't - so that's working fine :p
<flocculant> note to self - drink first cup of tea before *anything* 
<flocculant> after that first cup - it all seems fine with the exception of custom date
<flocculant> bluesabre: ignore all of that ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - starting again ... 
<flocculant> still see the custom date issue
<flocculant> also seeing some bizarre results from either using right click menu/or double click on result - bug1547807 
<flocculant> bug 1547807
<ubottu> bug 1547807 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Need to click in empty space for right click options to work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547807
<flocculant> description is 'one' issue I saw 
<flocculant> screencast attached to it
<bluesabre> flocculant: awwww, didn't check the catfish (Ubuntu) bugs
<bluesabre> flocculant: marked them as affecting the project too, will fix those soon
<flocculant> I get confused about more than one package when they're both in LP ... 
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> at least a few of those are easy fixes
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - pretty sure that the bug I found today is new
<bluesabre> which one?
<flocculant> the one I reported today bug 1547807
<ubottu> bug 1547807 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Need to click in empty space for right click options to work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1547807
<bluesabre> that's been mentioned in the past, always forgot about it since no bug was ever filed
<flocculant> oh right - never noticed it in the past - but at least there is a bug now :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> will probably try to get a 1.4.1 out this weekend then before attempting to send to archive
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks a lot for checking it out for me, big help!
<flocculant> yw - at least I can do this :)
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, re the noto font - I agree with you that 9 pt is a little small for hi-res displays, but 10 doesn't look good either, at least in T-bird, e.g.
<jjfrv8> on a highlighted line, the font is not centered vertically and some characters overhang at the bottom: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/noto-9vs10.php
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: interesting observation
<bluesabre> that might be a bug in the font itself, or in Thunderbird's rendering of it
<bluesabre> very unusual
<jjfrv8> Well the droid font is not centered in T-bird either, but at least I can use 9pt, which doesn't overhang, because it looks larger.
<jjfrv8> Otherwise, the noto is not bad looking and I'll probably get used to it :)
<bluesabre> thanks for the feedback jjfrv8 :D
<jjfrv8> welcome
<`qq> some noto font feedback.
<`qq> it is very close to droid sans, i'd reckon most users won't notice
<`qq> but when i installed fonts-noto, it installed a ton of fonts noto for different scripts
<`qq> too many really
<`qq> coudln't find fonts-noto-mono
<`qq> and lastly it does take more horiz space than droid sans
<`qq> not much, but one can tell
<`qq> it's a good choice. not sure how the team could have done better. 
<`qq> +1 from me
<branau> ~Afternoon, everyone!
<SwissBot> hi branau
<branau> Question for the team: how are the contest submissions for the wallpapers going to be voted on?
<Unit193> ubottu: random wallpaper1 wallpaper2 wallpaper3 wallpaper4 wallpaper5 wallpaper6
<ubottu> wallpaper4
<ubottu> Unit193: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<flocculant> branau: that depends I guess on how many, whether there's enough time (you'll remember I'm cycnical :D )
<flocculant> I'd plump for civs probably 
<Unit193> I'm also cynical and slightly trollish.  Honestly, either civs or artwork team.
<_Sponge> Whats the flickr group, then ?
<flocculant> no idea 
<branau> I just ask because I've developed an upvote/downvote plugin that we could use for it
<flocculant> mmm
<branau> You can see a live example of it on floornews.org (be warned though, it's a very political site haha)
<flocculant> branau: well that's what we wanted PoC for :)
<flocculant> personally I'd like a list and then something to vote for them on/with
<branau> flocculant the PoC is for tomorrow right?
<flocculant> with civs you can have a list of 5 billion things - but if you actually only want to vote for 1 - put it to 1 and the other's get marked at 4,999,999,999 :)
<flocculant> branau: ack
<_Sponge> I checked out floornews.org & you have to log-in to vote.
<_Sponge> What does ack mean ?
<flocculant> acknowledge
<_Sponge> so its not a TLA , then.
<flocculant> omg amewican politics 
<flocculant> _Sponge: nope 
<branau> flocculant: The list would be good, I'm guessing we'd like to organize from most popular to least popular? 
<branau> I've never heard of civs though
<flocculant> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/
<flocculant> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_0fdc957f50e982d0
<flocculant> for a recent example :D
<branau> flocculant: wouldn't that involve a lot of manual data entry though?
<flocculant> only a list of people who can vote and the things to vote on
<flocculant> I've done it bunch of times for different things
<branau> flocculant, alright, sounds good. I'll try to get an in-house voting system set up for the PoC that I'll be shooting your way tomorrow so you can decide on which you like better
<flocculant> awesome sauce
<knome> branau, or rather on this channel :)
<Unit193> Did you read logs, knome
<Unit193> ?
<knome> no
<knome> but i'll go do that now
<flocculant> knome: what on this channel? 
<knome> flocculant, see q on -off
<flocculant> ohh I see :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-21
<bluesabre> late evening all
<branau> Howdy bluesabre
<bluesabre> heya branau
<branau> How goes it?
<bluesabre> exhausted
<bluesabre> went hiking for first half of day, then shopping for the other half
<bluesabre> Fitbit says I have 17.3 thousand steps today
<bluesabre> :'(
<branau> Well I'd say you had a productive day!
<bluesabre> loooooooooong
<bluesabre> but good :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice on the first bit!
<branau> Where'd ya go hiking at?
<bluesabre> http://bernheim.org/
<branau> Oh hey, I used to live in Louisville
<bluesabre> cool
<branau> Hey knome, you online?
<pleia2> usually not this time of day, he's in finland :)
<pleia2> best to catch him early in the day, he sleeps during our evenings/nights
<branau> pleia2 isn't it kinda late for you too?
<branau> I'm looking at 1am here haha
<pleia2> 11pm here
<branau> Oh that's not too bad. Any chance you've got a good email to reach knome at? I was going to head to bed for the night but I wanted to give him a head's up on the status of the wallpaper contest site
<pleia2> he posts to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, you can grab his address there :)
<pleia2> I also recommend subscribing to it yourself if you haven't
<Unit193> Yeah but he's an odd Finnish.
<pleia2> not very high traffic, lots of useful posts
<branau> Cool, thanks. I'll subscribe to it
<branau> Unit193 I know how the Finns are, I lived in Finland for a year
<branau> Not far from Helsinki actually
<branau> I went there every weekend haha
<Unit193> So, TN and Finland, ok.
<branau> TN?
<Unit193> Erm, KY, close! :P
<branau> Haha yeah
<branau> I'm 21 y/o and I've moved ~~25 times
<branau> Life's an adventure
<Unit193> Wow.
<Unit193> Ohio? ;)
<branau> Nope haha never lived there. I was born in CA, and lived in OR, ID, NV, KY, and IN for the USA. Internationally I've lived in Finland, and currently live in Mexico
 * Unit193 â ot
<dkessel> bluesabre: font feedback: i changed noto to size 10. otherwise it was too small. but i am running a fairly high resolution for the screen size, so hey... i guess 9 should be fine for most other people
<dkessel> other than that, i noticed nothing which would be against noto
<bluesabre> thanks dkessel
<bluesabre> knome: so far good or acceptable feedback
<branau> knome, you around?
<flocculant> !team | just in case any of you don't know (I didn't) or someone asks - seems that when booting images now - no warning about disk size (as long as it's big enough) nor internet availability
<ubottu> just in case any of you don't know (I didn't) or someone asks - seems that when booting images now - no warning about disk size (as long as it's big enough) nor internet availability: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<pleia2> knome: re: thread about storing the MD5SUMs on our website, it may be it's time for that http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2994
<pleia2> could happen with any of our mirrors, obviously
<pleia2> so it may be time for us to store a canonical series of hashes somewhere trusted over https
<flocculant> I saw that too 
<Nairwolf> hi, I'm not an expert, but I've seen that even with https, the problem would be the same
<Nairwolf> I've heard that md5 isn't a good solution if you want to avoid collision
<pleia2> the chances of collision are not within the realm of seriousness
<pleia2> so I'm not ready to give up on hashes
<pleia2> and no, the problem is not at all the same
<Nairwolf> But, unless I'm wrong, if a bad guy wants to corrupt xunbut isos, he will have to being able to create a corrupted iso (but which still works in order to be installed) WITH the same md5. It's almost impossible
<Nairwolf> I agree with you pleia2
<Nairwolf> about https, I don't really know
<pleia2> well, https just means you are trusting the source :)
<Nairwolf> sorry, in fact, my participation isn't really usefull ;)
<pleia2> if someone hacks your website you're in trouble either way, since you'd be trusting a bad thing
<Nairwolf> oh, yes, I've just checked, there is not https at xubuntu.org
<pleia2> you can use https on xubuntu.org, but we don't make it default
<Nairwolf> ok, I understand
<Nairwolf> are you sure ? I have the https-everywhere extension
<Nairwolf> if it's https, it should be actived
<pleia2> yes, we've had this discussion a few times
<pleia2> it is activated, we just don't send people there by default
<Nairwolf> why ? 
<pleia2> it's new, site is faster without it, didn't find immediate value
<Nairwolf> My Firefox tells me he blocked some non-secure element
<Nairwolf> But, I don't which ones
<Nairwolf> faster, really ? How much ? 
<pleia2> that too, links to some http resources, you can look in the page source to find them
<knome> pleia2, tbh, canonical should just do that in cdimage or wherever they want to push their SUMS
<knome> pleia2, seems silly to duplicate effort for all flavors individually
<pleia2> Nairwolf: the same as any http to https speed difference, I'm not being innovative over here :
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> knome: probably
<pleia2> knome: and maybe we link to their list that lives over https?
<Nairwolf> yes, but I've read the difference isn't so much high
<pleia2> we don't need to do it ourselves
<knome> pleia2, exactly.
<pleia2> knome: wfm
<knome> pleia2, since they essentially create the ISOs...
<pleia2> yep
<knome> ...they should be the source for the sums too
<pleia2> yeah, they are really, we'd just be copying from them
<knome> because a xubuntu website admin can be evil too, and people with tin foil hats don't like that possibility
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> we only have as much protection as the security record of wordpress :)
<knome> which is... well, not too bad, but..
<knome> but as i said, when building ISOs, the canonical build servers should push the sums to a central place that is easy to link to
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> it doesn't take any space, they are already doing the sums too
<pleia2> that would be optimal for us
<knome> and for all other flavors
<pleia2> plus, we wouldn't have to update the link all the time
<knome> or in other words, the world peace
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> yes, it could be a release specific link
<knome> tbh, just pushing the current *SUMS files in the same directory structure even in a HTTPS host would be god enough
<knome> err, good
<pleia2> yep
<knome> how do we want to escalate?
<pleia2> wondering if we should just poke our -release friends first to see what they think
<knome> IS ticket, or talking to release team, or community team?
<knome> tomorrow is more likely to work for -release poking
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> Unit193, is the core issues still stalling?
<knome> -s
<pleia2> there's no rush really, the mint thing just kind of hit home :)
<pleia2> I have an airplane to get on soon
<knome> yeah, no worries
<knome> we were on a party essentially the whole day
<pleia2> fun
<knome> mm, not bad
<branau> knome! How goes it?
<knome> branau, not bad
<branau> Have you seen the email I sent you?
<knome> i got your email but haven't had a chance to react or look at the site yet
<knome> (though please share the stuff publicly in the channel too if you don't specifically want to avoid that)
<branau> Gotcha, well I'm going to go ahead and set up the voting now, the submissions and moderation of them are ready to go though
<branau> Sounds good
<Unit193> < knome> because a xubuntu website admin can be evil too <---  Yes, I certainly am.  But a good evil.
<knome> :P
<knome> like dexter?
<flocculant> branau: so how goes it then? 
<knome> branau, i looked at your code, and even logged in to your site via openid. a few comments:
<knome> branau, you don't assign a default role to the new users automatically, so i'm unable to do the actions you have set for the custom "competitor" role you registered
<knome> branau, partially related to the latter; please use the launchpad-openid extensions (i'll dig a link up for you in a second); this both removes the requirement to actually write your openid address when logging in (and at the same time, disables "normal" logging) but also allows you to set the role based on the team memberships the user has
<knome> branau, the latter solves the problem of giving special permissions to people who should be allowed to do something else than just submit
<knome> branau, here's the link: https://launchpad.net/wordpress-openid-integration
<branau> knome yep, totally spaced the default role. That's a quick fix though. And I'll switch out that plugin too so I can test it. We're you able to log into the admin though and fix your role so that you could test the image submission?
<knome> i didn't yet have time to set it up for myself
<branau> knome I'll fix your role then rel fast so you can check that out 
<knome> branau, if you enabled something on the demo site, then it didn't work
<branau> knome I tried to set the defualt role to competitor and for some reason it didn't save, I'll have to debug when I'm on front of my computer again (currently I'm on my phone) but I'll check your role real quick 
<knome> sure, as long as it works on the final site
<branau> Knome you can test now
<branau> Your role has been fixed
<knome> will do in a bit
<knome> branau_, we don't have any license/attribution input fields, how have you planned to do those?
<knome> branau_, also, is this restricted to one submission per user?
<branau_> knome the license was an oversight, I can add it in, shouldn't be a problem. This is currently restricted to one upload per user, but I'll double check it 
<branau_> What other attribute fields would we want?
<knome> we want "attribution" eg. the name the user wants to be attributed with if they win
<knome> the license, which should really be a two-step process
<knome> or with two options:
<knome> 1) cc-by-sa
<knome> 2) other, specify: ____
<knome> and each user should be able to submit as many images as they want
<knome> or at least >1
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-13
<bluesabre> Unit193, played with whisker 2.0.x yet?
<bluesabre> Unit193, see any issue with the templates, or do you think this should be fine to roll in? https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-templates
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r630 Use new QT5 environment variable for GTK theme integration (... (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> Nope, I never used that.
<Unit193> bluesabre: You did a loooot of other changes.
<bluesabre> in a separate commit, yes
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> did something else get in
<Unit193> d/changelog, your editor went to town. :P
<bluesabre> now I'm not sure which thing you're talking about
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> the templates
<bluesabre> I pushed a few various commits in the last hour or so
<bluesabre> I can undo those d/changelog commits, but nobody likes trailing spaces, right :D
<bluesabre> anyway, time for bed
<bluesabre> nightyyyyy
<Unit193> Niiiighty, babe.
<knome> bluesabre, cool menulibre stuff :)
<bluesabre> knome, gearing up for a release sometime this week
<Unit193> :3
<knome> nice
<Unit193> G'morning.
<bluesabre> morning
<akxwi-dave> howdy
<flocculant> ochosi: just grabbed LO update from -proposed - has the notebook bar thing - cut a long story short - missing icons there using our elementary doodah
<flocculant> knome: any thought about 16.04.2 announcement? other than when you read this :p
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [cont1704] r629 Changes as per review (by flocculant)
<knome> flocculant, not any specific thought, and if there isn't anything really new for us we might just skip it too if we want to
<ochosi> flocculant: new thunar release 1.6.11 out btw (with all the fixes you tested)
<Unit193> Nice.
<ochosi> well and quite a little bit more
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-14
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> knome: ack - that works 
<flocculant> ochosi: :)
<flocculant> yay - I get a mention on http://simon.shimmerproject.org/2017/02/13/releases-releases-releases/
<ochosi> flocculant: i'll mention you by name next time, knowing now that you read *and* appreciate those posts ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: ha ha :)
<flocculant> ochosi: been quite an interseting time for me this cycle :)
<ochosi> flocculant: good to hear! it's not over just yet ;)
<akxwi-dave> :-) nice work ochosi .. thanks
<bluesabre> will be adding the create document templates to xubuntu-default-settings tonight if there are no objections, https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-templates/+merge/317186
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [xubuntu-templates] r631 Restore spaces for smaller diff on merge (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Poke me before you do, I have a few remarks.
<flocculant> ochosi: am I still supposed to see the X in taskmanager? 
<bluesabre> Unit193, what's up?
<Unit193> I can't English right now very well, so figured later when I make more sense is better.  You seem to "hardcode" ~/.config/ when the user can use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME to change it.
<Unit193> https://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html#variables, or the more readable https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory_support#User_directories
<bluesabre> ah
<Unit193> A slightly more descriptive d/changelog would be nice, but..
<bluesabre> Can do that too
<Unit193> (Nice use of xdg-user-dir!)  Also, it occurs to me, that the first python3 script?  It might need py3 foo.
<bluesabre> should be py3 safe
<bluesabre> handles bytes decoding where needed
<bluesabre> and other things (it has been tested) :D
<bluesabre> but yeah, if there is any other feedback, feel free to just dump it here and I'll review when I get home tonight
<Unit193> Hah, sure.  Was thinking packaging.
<bluesabre> bbl, hf all
<flocculant> ochosi: ignore that last one - had your gtk3 task manager here not master
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, was hoping it'd be something along the lines of that
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/855157
<ubottu> Debian bug 855157 in mugshot "mugshot is not starting" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - so ... found an odd thing - open task manager - go to settings for it - Toolbar Style set to default, set it to small - watch the icons increase in size
<flocculant> so default is smaller than small :p
<ochosi> the toolbar icon setting is totally superfluous and silly
<flocculant> ochosi: well - only because default isn't large :D
<ochosi> no, because there are system-wide settings for the toolbar size
<ochosi> and all this silly setting does is make taskman inconsistent with all the other aps
<ochosi> apps
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> this setting must come from times when there was no such gtk setting
<flocculant> there's somewhere to set toolbar size? 
<ochosi> ofc
 * flocculant never knew or found it 
<ochosi> right, maybe the size is not exposed in the appearance settings
<ochosi> but it'd be easy to do that
<ochosi> it's a general gtk setting that you can set through xfce4-settings-editor
<flocculant> oh right
<flocculant> window scaling in appearances is newish - never saw that before 
<flocculant> s/saw/noticed
<ochosi> that's for gtk3 exclusively though
<ochosi> to support hidpi displays
<flocculant> aah right - that makes sense
<ochosi> unfortunately gtk3 only supports to factors though: 1x and 2x
<flocculant> might need it in about 5 years :D
<ochosi> nothing in between
<ochosi> anything in between would be useful but hard with X (is what they told me), for seamless scaling we'll have to wait for wayland
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-15
<bluesabre> Unit193, that mugshot bug... gotta love when apis change and return values change types :\
<Unit193> Yeeep!
<bluesabre> Unit193, so, no python building needs to happen, so I think a basic Depends on the package would be fine for now
<bluesabre> Thoughts?
<Unit193> bluesabre: My only thoughts: 1. Does it need a copyright header?  2. --with python3?  3. I can't remember.
<bluesabre> Unit193, 1. Makes sense, 2. No building, not sure its necessary, 3. Getting old.
<Unit193> The only thing that it'd maybe do in the future is change the #!.
<Unit193> I'm not that old! :(
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Mess with people, use CDDL or MS-PL. :-----D
<Unit193> bluesabre: If it makes you feel better, I patched pidgin-torchat a while ago to use .config/ and didn't care about XDG_CONFIG_HOME either. :D
<Unit193> (And, left it that way because I still don't care.)
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> easy solution in python though :)
<bluesabre> config_dir = os.getenv('XDG_CONFIG_HOME', os.path.expanduser("~/.config/"))
<Unit193> I was using Pascal. :3
<Unit193> If you read /usr/bin/xdg-user-dir you'll see bash is easy too.
<bluesabre> indeed :D
<bluesabre> Unit193, did I miss anything? https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-templates/+merge/317186
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [xubuntu-templates] r632 Packaging updates for Python, use XDG_CONFIG_HOME, add copyr... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [xubuntu-templates] r633 Add missing changelog info (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> morning all
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> Unit193, poke
<Unit193> Not alive.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> "Are you in there? We're going to find you!" "No, nope, nobody hiding in here sir!"
<Unit193> Oh dang.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Presuming you don't need a social call...
<bluesabre> Unit193, just going for one more poke before rolling in xubuntu-templates
<Unit193> I have to review it? :(  (And at 6am!)
<Unit193> I don't know python really, else the one part I'm sure would make sense.
<bluesabre> You don't have to review it, but you had concerns that I wanted to make sure were adequately addressed
<bluesabre> It does in general work, so improvements can be made after the fact
<Unit193> Yep, and I think they likely were.  I'm just not quite sure this needs to run on every startup, but meh. :P
<Unit193> So, nice job.
<bluesabre> That just lets us update templates over time :)
<Unit193> Mhmm, couldn't think of a good alternative.  Though, doesn't that mean one should version the templates, so we can update in addition to adding new ones?
<bluesabre> It'd require some tweaking for providing updates
<Unit193> Mhm.
<bluesabre> should be simple to do though
<Unit193> Anywho, that was just a thought.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r631 * Add default document templates... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Breakfast time, then  I'll upload and we'll have knocked an item off the list
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant, should we go for parole 0.9.x/1.0.x in zesty?
<bluesabre> flocculant, will be pushing out a new menulibre release this week in case you want to take a peek at that
<bluesabre> ochosi, anything else you'd like to see in zesty? FF tomorrow
<Unit193> Oooh, crap.
<bluesabre> I wonder if we want to switch to whisker 2.x or stay on 1.x for now
<Unit193> 1.x :>
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Hrm, notifyd doesn't really count as bugfix does it?
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin  2.1.0-0ppa1+gtk3~16.10      21  is that high enough we should have at least seen one person with an issue?
<Unit193> (I don't use it, so not affecting my bias) I'd say since that's a little more heavily used, since it's the default, we should stick with the 1.x series but keep the 2.x series up to date in the PPA for testing and bug hunting.  Other things that did jump to GTK3 are minor.  Sound sane, or just jump now?
<Unit193> Also I was reminded, while trying to get out of something social, that I need to schedule a meeting.
<ochosi> i
<ochosi> 've been using whisker-gtk3 for a while already
<ochosi> no issues so far
<ochosi> not sure, we can jump to taskman 1.2.0
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<ochosi> and we definitely need thunar 1.6.11
<Unit193> I certainly agree on that last one, yes. :P
<Unit193> Had hoped for a sync though.
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke
<flocculant> Unit193: who wouldn't agree with that last one :p
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r632 Add changelog for QT5 env variable (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> flocculant: Gotta agree to something!
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> am I right in thinking it has to be bug fix zesty before sru anything else?
<flocculant> bluesabre:any reason why not parole 1.0? and I've not seen any problems with whisker 2.somegit from the gtk3 ppa 
<flocculant> and contrary to Unit193's position on that - how many people actually use x.ppa's? so how much testing happens? if 'mostly' team then I would say change it now - then we'll see bugs reported before it's 18.04 ...
<bluesabre> thanks for the feedback guys!
<flocculant> welcome :)
<flocculant> makes a change to not be whining and put in blogs like it :D
<bluesabre> thunar, definitely, looks like we're not going to get the latest and greatest in debian to sync, so we'll merge debian and the latest
<bluesabre> flocculant, with SRUs, we implement in devel release first, then backport fixes
<flocculant> bluesabre: right - so getting into zesty is prerequisite 
<bluesabre> whisker 2.x doesn't really matter to me either way, but it is lesser tested, so maybe roll that one in at the beginning of z+1
<bluesabre> or whenever :D
<bluesabre> taskman, haven't tested it myself yet
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - bit mmm about that tbh - never very convinced on ppa participation
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> we'll hold on that
<bluesabre> the app menu is a critical piece of our desktop
<flocculant> it could possibly be you, me and poonil 
<flocculant> right - so my thinking is get in asap - rather than wait till 18.04 is closer still :)
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> but z+1day works for me :D
<bluesabre> we're all flexible then
<flocculant> anyway - best be off again - have a day :)
<bluesabre> I'll test it myself today and if I find time to upload, I'll consider then
<flocculant> bluesabre: you talking anout tqaskman? I was talking about whisker lol
<bluesabre> whisker
<bluesabre> we are on the same page this time
<flocculant> ok - just checking :)
<bluesabre> though, if you'd like to poke taskman, go for it ;)
<bluesabre> guessing whisker-2 probably depends on garcon-2
<Unit193> Mmmm...
<bluesabre> x-d-s uploaded
<bluesabre> thunar and at least some others tonight
<bluesabre> weeeeeee
<Unit193> garcon doesn't specifically make me happy, exo is alright though.
<Unit193> Meh, thunar isn't so bad.  I can poke at something if needed.
<bluesabre> if you want to handle the thunar upload, feel free to :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, and no reason to not do parole, might be some bugs in 0.9.0 (there are, some are fixed), but I'll be tackling those in the next week or two
<bluesabre> so thunar, parole, menulibre, maybe whisker-gtk, maybe taskman
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r633 Release 17.04.0 (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: smoketesting 16.04 64 bit - ignoring post install, lvm and oem - we just need to make sure they don't splodeallover
<ochosi> flocculant: what's the chance of thunar 1.6.11 making 16.04?
<ochosi> and if there is none, can we put it in a PPA for 16.04 to help those poor LTS users?
<ochosi> (and blog about it)
<flocculant> ochosi: 2 ticks
<flocculant> ochosi: afaik = we need to get it in zesty - then we can sru it and backport it (I think I read Sean right earlier)
<ochosi> right, that's the usual process
<flocculant> so assuming we get it in - then I see no reason
<flocculant> but - given that 14.04 is not long for the world for us - short-term fix would be a ppa 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ 
<ochosi> or Unit193 ^^
<flocculant> indeed :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: got a plymouth crash on first reboot - but not second go
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ok - smoketested both archs now - or as much as I care too ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - I assume that thunar is bug fixes - so freeze exception ?
<Unit193> Should be, but test built it now.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> knome: I assume you saw updated mp for conttibutor stuff fly by
<flocculant> and now - I'll bbl 
<knome> yeah...
<knome> nighty
<Unit193> Shouldn't need one either way though, FF hasn't hit the archive yet.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769445 - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12832 - https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=726b34c0b37e778a4983866602cc20cfa4172b99
<ubottu> Gnome bug 769445 in Widget: GtkFileChooser "Folder selection broken since gtk2-2.24.30+95+g876b5f7-1" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12832 in General "gtk 2.24.31 regression - folders grayed out in wallpaper choose dialog" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Unit193> flocculant: Around?
<knome> went to bed
<Unit193> Why did we put all our QA team in the UK again?
<knome> we didn't put it... they came out of their caves themself
<knome> theirself?
<knome> whateva.
<knome> aaaanyway.
<knome> time to do something else before going to bed
<knome> nighty!
<bluesabre> Unit193, awesome
<Unit193> I'm working out a test. >_>
<bluesabre> and I'm going out for pizza :D
<bluesabre> bbabl
<Unit193> Sounds fantastic, I quite approve.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I should just push xfdesktop4?
<bluesabre> Unit193, I'm not opposed
<Unit193> Built, confirmed before that I could see it, after that it was gone.
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> Upload away :)
<bluesabre> (same with thunar if your test build looks good)
<Unit193> Oh, well good.  Because I already pushed that. >_>
<Unit193> ...I keep typing xfdesktop5.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193 comes from the future
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/1.6.11-0ubuntu1 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/4.12.3-2ubuntu2
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-16
<bluesabre> baaaaaaaaack
<bluesabre> Unit193, we can probably say "[xubuntu-dev] Investigate Thunar patches and/or replacement file manager: TODO" is now DONE, right?
<bluesabre> investigated, committed, released :)
<Unit193> Looks done to meeeee.
<bluesabre> woooo!
<bluesabre> I'll give that doneness to you ;)
<Unit193> All I did was the packaging. :3
<bluesabre> 100 points
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> What's up?  Anything else I can do?
<bluesabre> packaging parole currently
<bluesabre> if you want whisker or taskman, go for it
<Unit193> ...So I checked xfdesktop4 for bugs it closes, but forgot thunar.  Dang.
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0 is real fun.
<bluesabre> oh wow
<Unit193> Note to self: Don't touch thunar.
<bluesabre> wow
<bluesabre> I think it's safe to trust whisker gtk3
<bluesabre> I didn't even know I was running it
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Hah.  Can likely just take the packaging from the PPA and fix d/changelog
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> it turns out that you've been doing all the work lately :)
<Unit193> Well, they kept spitting out releases...  You can just flip the name in d/changelog, I don't mind.
<bluesabre> Unit193, open xfce4-appfinder and let me know what you see
<Unit193> This sounds like a trick question.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I see zero apps
<Unit193> Oh, you mean appfinder, not xfrun.  I use the latter.  I have no problems with appfinder/4.12.0-2ubuntu2
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> probably something broken on my env
<bluesabre> and virtualbox crapping out
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/0.9.0-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/2.1.0-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-taskmanager/1.2.0-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> big day for qa tomorrow... ;)
<Unit193> That's not GTK3?
<Unit193> Huh.
<bluesabre> yeah, surprised me too
<bluesabre> Then I realized I read the release announcement wrong
<bluesabre> "So far the Gtk3 branch already works and has feature-parity with master."
<Unit193> I read it a bit ago, nice surprise though.
<bluesabre> the xprop like functionality for the processes is pretty sweet
<Unit193> Backported both to PPA anyway.
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> I think I'll work on getting xfce more appstream friendly next
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nono!  Work on gpg signing in the release manager! :---D
<bluesabre> gpg anything gets scary quick
<Unit193> Kidding, presume you've seen the xfce list. :P
<bluesabre> Oh jeez, the xfce release manager needs lots of love
<bluesabre> soooooo tired
<bluesabre> night alllll
<Unit193> G'nighty, Sean.
<flocculant> Unit193: out of cave again now ...
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - thanks for uploads 
<flocculant> I expect :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: marked 16.04.2 ready
<Unit193> Sure, have fun.
<eladhen> Hi all, Simon SteinbeiÃ suggested I ask here how best to help with testing Xfce. He suggested talking with flocculant and akxwi-dave. 
<flocculant> eladhen: I'm off shortly but, basically we here test xubuntu, which is xfce based - that said lots of xfce people in here and we also test stuff for xfce as and when asked - good place to start would perhaps be chapters 4,5 and 6 of http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/part-subteams.html
<eladhen> flocculant: I understand that there's a PPA for development packages...
<flocculant> well there are ppa's 
<Unit193> xfce4-gtk3 is likely what he's referring to.
<Unit193> flocculant: I really hope thunar is still looking good, never really could hit that so can't dogfeed that one, but did the desktop.
<Unit193> eladhen: We're pushing some of the stable gtk3 ports to the next release, but some of the development releases we're only pushing to ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce4-gtk3
<eladhen> Unit193: will this PPA work on 16.04 or should I install 16.10?
<Unit193> Doesn't work at all on 16.04, most of the stuff is there for 16.10 but -notifyd is missing.
<eladhen> Unit193: So you recommend I install 16.10 and use this PPA?
<eladhen> Unit193: Or should I get a 17.04 ISO (is it available?)
<Unit193> eladhen: I'm simply telling you what's there and what isn't.  Generally speaking 17.04 will have more of the components already, and has a newer GTK3 version too.
<Unit193> I'd advise more towards the development release for testing.
<flocculant> eladhen: as Unit193 said - except I'd say install development version for sure :)
<knome> bluesabre, ping
<knome> or Unit193 works as well if he's lurking
<eladhen> flocculant: So, to help testing, should I install 17.04 daily and add the ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce4-gtk3?
<knome> or akxwi-dave ^
<flocculant> eladhen: yup
<eladhen> flocculant: Thanks. Installing it now.
<flocculant> eladhen: I am assuming you're not constrained with downloads - you'll get updates more or less daily (not massive amounts usually)
<eladhen> flocculant: I'm not constrained. No problem.
<flocculant> then once you've got that set up - I've been testing xfce stuff for ochosi - usually either something from him via git, or master +patches in the 17.04 xubuntu
<eladhen> flocculant: Hmm... not sure what you just said there...
<flocculant> eladhen: set up xubuntu 17.04 then we'll talk more :)
<flocculant> ochosi: so how would I get more involved in xfce testing? is there some group? or is just a random bun fight?
<eladhen> flocculant: OK, finished installing 17.04 and the gtk3 ppa.
<flocculant> eladhen: ok - so now use it daily - you'll be testing both xubuntu and xfce, watch the mailing list(s), idle in here - you'll see us asking for testing on 'things' as they're required
<flocculant> eladhen: also - because I don't know exactly what you asked Simon - I'm guessing at what you're aiming at ;)
<flocculant> eladhen: Simon is ochosi btw
<flocculant> eladhen: for some examples of what we did lately - we tested thunar with a couple of sets of patches aimed at fixing some bugs, tested a new version of notifyd, new version of taskmanager - just waiting for some more to play with
<flocculant> in and out for the next hour
<eladhen> flocculant: OK. I asked simon how I can help in testing Xfce. Where can I get into the relevant mailing list?
<flocculant> eladhen: ok - so by testing xubuntu development - you are testing xfce. mailing list is in the docs I gave you earlier (xubuntu-devel) and I guess the xfce-devel list at https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
<eladhen> flocculant: I'm absolutely fine with testing Xubuntu along the way. :)
<Unit193> Feature Freeze.
<flocculant> well - xubuntu dev version is probably in actuality pretty close to xfce dev version 
<flocculant> eladhen: and given that Simon got you to talk to either me or akxwi-dave - then I would guess that to be his point of view as well 
<flocculant> Unit193: yup
<Unit193> Either that or he said he used Ubuntu.
<flocculant> :)
<eladhen> flocculant: Cool
<eladhen> flocculant: Well, I'm now subscribed to both lists. Thanks for the help and I hope I'll be able to help after a long while of enjoying Xfce. 
<Unit193> Pretty sure xfce4-settings stuff was somewhat experimental.
<flocculant> oh yea 
<flocculant> found issues in the 'new' 
 * flocculant lost track of what he looked at recently :p
<Unit193> Pushed the new notifyd to PPA.
<Unit193> Meeting tomorrow 1700 local time work?
<knome> whatever that is
<knome> (:
<flocculant> local to whoever doth read it? 
<Unit193> 22:00:00 UTC 2017
<knome> sounds doable
<flocculant> yea - wfm
<knome> (i need my utc clock on the panel right away)
<knome> (and i need the panel in the right spot too)
<flocculant> I can manage to -1 for 6 months of the year for utc
<flocculant> well for 5.5 months of the year
<Unit193> I can move it back or forward perhaps too.
<knome> well 2/3 is easyish, and i do the conversion in my head but it gives me comfort to see the UTC time too...
<flocculant> Unit193: that time's fine for me at least 
<knome> 22UTC is better than later
<flocculant> I'd agree with that
<knome> oh, arial
<knome> oh wait, wrong channel
<flocculant> :p
<pleia2> woo, lovexubuntu goodies made it safely to our winners in Sweden, Bangladesh and Israel
<pleia2> I expect the Florida one too, but I didn't ask for confirm and that one's in my country... no word from Ukraine, fingers crossed
<knome> \o/
<pleia2> I told them to contact me if they don't receive something by March
<flocculant> noto ways about it knome - you beat me to the \o/ there
<flocculant> pleia2: nice :)
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: PLEASE add a new default shortcut; super+S for the settings manager
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/EvPLMvsSyXkSzXZPTy1i/ there you go!
<knome> yes
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Meeting.
<bluesabre> 5pm tomorrow
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> Tuesday
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Wait
<bluesabre> Tomorrow
<bluesabre> Dang it Unit193
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Tue Feb 17 22:00 UTC 2017
<Unit193> AHahaha. :D
<Unit193> Already got an email on that.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Change of plans, it's in 10 minutes! :P
<bluesabre> :ooooooo
<Unit193> Never got xfdashy in. :/
<Unit193> There's a fair number using the GTK3 PPA, now if they'd only report back..
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> We could work on some feedback gtk modules
<tracker7> -
<knome> +
<Unit193> *
<bluesabre> â
<Unit193> I figured xfce4-notifyd had new features, so not after FF hit. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-17
<bluesabre> That's fair, I'd say
<Unit193> Presumably nobody has been testing sessions with GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1?
<flocculant> knome: but Super+S is synaptic and repo reload
 * flocculant is used to Xubuntu being listed last - thought we weren't on the 16.04.2 release announcement 
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - now we've got thunar 1.6.11 how do we go about getting it to 16.04 ? and will it happen before April? 
<Unit193> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<knome> flocculant, noo ;)
<pleia2> btw http://ubucon.org/en/events/ubucon-summit-us/schedule/
<pleia2> "10 Years of Xubuntu"
<pleia2> I guess I have a talk to write
<flocculant> knome: so run how to start Xubuntu 17.04 on w.x.o ? 
<flocculant> s/run how/run how to by me again ...
<SwissBot> feed xfce4-announce had 5 updates, showing the latest 3
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.11 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-11-released-tp48891.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-notifyd 0.3.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-notifyd-0-3-5-released-tp48893.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.9 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-weather-plugin-0-8-9-released-tp48895.html (by Harald Judt)
<knome> pleia2, congrats ;)
<flocculant> Unit193 ochosi - now getting thunar crash when properties on a file - both with master from git or 1.6.11 from repos
<ali1234> xfce4-display-settings is consistently segfaulting again
<flocculant> bug 1665750
<ubottu> bug 1665750 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar crashes when calling Properties" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1665750
<flocculant> did upstream at 13361
<ali1234> backtrace has no debug symbols :(
<flocculant> ali1234: well thunar-dbg is installed - perhaps I just do it wrong
<flocculant> easy enough to redo - unfortunately ...
<ali1234> how do i get 1.6.11?
<ali1234> on 17.04
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<ali1234> you can try "apport-retrace -s -S system /var/crash/..."
<ali1234> but for me even that is not currently working
<flocculant> ali1234: update for 1.6.11 - version in repo now
<ali1234> i just did "apt upgrade" and i still have 1.6.10
<flocculant> mmm
<ali1234> maybe the mirrors are not synced yet
<flocculant> ali1234: assuming you are uk ?
<ali1234> yes
<flocculant> I tend to use main server here
<flocculant> assuming still uk that is :p
<flocculant> pretty sure it's not coming from a ppa
<flocculant> (uk too)
<ali1234> i'll switch to the main archive
<ali1234> in the mean time
<flocculant> so *how* do I get debug symbols in a backtrace?
<ali1234> have debug symbols installed for all libraries
<ali1234> or use apport to do a retrace
<ali1234> "apt upgrade" still says nothing to update
<flocculant> except /var/crash is empty
<ali1234> do you have access to errors.ubuntu.com?
<acheronuk> no crash here. though I am running KDE on this machine
<flocculant> ali1234: yea
<ali1234> sometimes yoou can get backtraces from there, although it's hard to find the one you want
<flocculant> ali1234: I might purge the gtk3 ppa's first and retry 
<flocculant> and seems it only crashes out Properties on a file - not a folder
<ali1234> did you do "ubuntu-bug thunar" to report that bug?
<ali1234> that normally doesn't work if there's any ppa stuff involved
<flocculant> ali1234: so - errors.u.c for 17.04 for thunar for the past day "No data to display"
<flocculant> ali1234: and yea ack on if ppa involved
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> can you see private bugs?
<flocculant> nope
<ali1234> me neither :(
<ali1234> 17.04 being unreleased sends bugs to launchpad, where they get marked private
<ali1234> instead of e.u.c
<flocculant> seems the only thunar-debug package is thunar-dbg 
<ali1234> yeah but you need debug symbols for eg libgio
<ali1234> libgtk
<ali1234> etc ...
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> wouldn't it be nice if thunar-dbg included things it *might possibly* need :p
<ali1234> -dbg packages have never really worked properly
<flocculant> or if even there was a 'xubuntu-debug-symbols' or the like
<ali1234> they're usually several days behind the repos
<flocculant> ;)
<ali1234> and they only exist for use by apport
<flocculant> right
<ali1234> which currently is broken for some reason
<flocculant> :D
<ali1234> your best bet is probably to get apport to send a backtrace to launchpad
<ali1234> then wait for it to retrace
<ali1234> but if anyone already did that your bug gets marked as private
<flocculant> I managed to ubuntu-bug just before I posted the link
<ali1234> then you have to go and ask it to be made public
<flocculant> yea - been there more than once
<ali1234> yeah but you have no crash report for apport to attach for some reason
<flocculant> nope 
<ali1234> i don't know why. maybe because it crashed too many times before
<flocculant> pretty sure I didn't do the 'oh ffs just ignore this please' 
<ali1234> i think it does that automatically after three or four crashes
<ali1234> i cant get it to touch my crash because i reported it on launchpad
<ali1234> (xfce4-display-settings:8733): xfce4-display-settings-CRITICAL **: xfce_randr_mode_width: assertion 'mode != NULL' failed
<flocculant> I don't appear to be able to get that to fall over
<ali1234> only happens in virtualbox
<ali1234> https://www.bountysource.com/issues/34695319-display-settings-pops-up-and-then-disappearers
<ali1234> apparently it doesn't only happen in virtualbox
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12607 is true bug link
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12607 in Display Settings "Display Settings pops up and then disappearers" [Major,New]
<flocculant> ali1234: \o/ 
<flocculant> ok so default/apport was set to 
<flocculant> 0
<flocculant> reset it to 1 - restarted - now have a crash report
<ali1234> okay, now try "apport-retrace -s -S system /var/crash/..."
<flocculant> seems to be trying - I assume it's going to fall down like you've been seeing
<ali1234> no if it takes a long time it will probably work
<ali1234> when it fails for me it fails instantly - because i already reported the bug
<ali1234> i just unlinked the duplicate bug report on launchpad and now apport wants to report it again
<flocculant> ali1234: well - ubuntu-bug reported it too with a 'some' stacktraces - I assume that's what we needed? 
<ali1234> did it?
<ali1234> i dont see any
<flocculant> ali1234: the apport retrace is still going - I'd already re-reported it 
<flocculant> currently private - going to un-private it - dupe my original to the new one
<flocculant> bug 1665761
<ubottu> bug 1665761 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with signal 7 in g_resource_new_from_data()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1665761
<flocculant> hopefully then - that new one has debuig symbols - no idea, don't knwo what they look like
<ali1234> sorry i lost internet there
<ali1234> flocculant: i dont see any backtrace on your lp bug
<ali1234> oh right duplicate
<flocculant> hope that's got what's needed
<flocculant> biab
<ali1234> it doesn't really tell anything useful
<ali1234> it crashed inside gio
<flocculant> ftr - when we were testing thunar master+ patches last couple of weeks - Unit193 saw this in the ppa one atm, I couldn't replicate it with master and patches
<ali1234> its probably random corruption (agan)
<ali1234> it certainly looks like that, from the stack trace
<ali1234> based on the stacktrace it looks like what happened is thunar tried to call a method on a gobject
<ali1234> gio tried to look up the object in the giant hash table of objects it keeps
<ali1234> but the hash table is completely corrupted, so the whole thing crashed
<ali1234> so basically the usual random memory corruption caused by use-after-free somewhere completely different
<knome> slickymaster, let's continue here...
<slickymaster> sure
<slickymaster> merge it knome 
<knome> another thing too
<slickymaster> I just got home from Lisbon and I still want to eat something before the meeting
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> then go have dinner
<knome> i can catch up with that other thing later
<slickymaster> I just have to warm the plate so we can do it now
<knome> ok, so regarding documentation teams
<knome> mostly non-xubuntu
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> since we now have our branch under ~xubuntu-doc, there's no real reason for us to keep certain team memberships
<slickymaster> makes sense
<knome> like ubuntu documentation committers - i will not be pushing anything to any other docs branch really
<knome> and same for contributors - i don't think there is any synergy or technical reason why we should be members there
<slickymaster> right, but will that tahes completely off the ubuntu documentation umbrella?
<knome> the only direct implication of this is that unless you are a member of ubuntu bug control via other teams (or directly), you'll lose that
<knome> slickymaster, in the social sense - we've already been separated technically for a long time (even more during the zesty cycle)
<slickymaster> yeah, but we won't be a member of Ubuntu Documentation Project Team anymore, right?
<knome> and there is https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc
<knome> xubuntu documentation is
<knome> but tbh, i'm not sure if we need to be
<knome> i only see mainbuntu, edubuntu and us there
<knome> anything in the team description actually even applies to us
<slickymaster> no objections from me reagrding tis
<slickymaster> +h
<knome> but this is why i wanted to talk with you about this
<knome> to see if you think there is any (social) reason to belong to something like that
<slickymaster> since we'll be managing our own branch we really don't need to be under their umbrella just for social sake
<flocculant> ali1234: that all sounds like it makes sense to me from just words - but that's it :)
<flocculant> evening knome slickymaster 
<slickymaster> evening flocculant 
<knome> slickymaster, yes, and there hasn't really been any benefits or any cooperation between different doc teams
<knome> so i don't feel like there is any obligation to stay with the rest
<slickymaster> that's true, an absolut sero
<slickymaster> will that have to be submit to s vote, knome 
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> i'll take this to the meeting as well (mostly informational) and then do the changes
<knome> meh, i don't think so
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> i'll ask if people think it should be voted on
<slickymaster> even better
<knome> but personally i don't think there's much to vote
<slickymaster> anyone I'm officially +1 it
<knome> heh :)
<flocculant> ali1234: so on a xubuntu updated - but just vanilla, thunar works as expected
<ali1234> if it's random memory corruption that doesn't mean much unfortunately
<ali1234> can you make it crash again?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r628 Merge flocculant's improvements for the contributor document... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<Unit193> Debian #855398
<ubottu> Debian bug 855398 in release.debian.org "unblock: thunar/1.6.11-1" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/855398
<Unit193> flocculant: Do you have thunar-gtkhash installed?
<Unit193> #6  0x00007f995c550ea6 in ?? () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/thunarx-2/libgtkhash-properties-thunar.so   so yes.
<flocculant> Unit193: oh yea ...
<Unit193> Try removing that plugin first.
<flocculant> Unit193: yup
<flocculant> I totally forgot about that bit - blaming irssi cos it's easy to look back in hexchat 
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks for reminding me - I was completely lost on why it was failing now
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<flocculant> I guess the bug should be for thunar-gtkhash :)
<Unit193> Trying something real quick.
<Unit193> Or not, meeting time.
<Unit193> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<Unit193> Howdy and welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 17 22:00:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> o/
<krytarik> \o
<Unit193> Well I'm here of course.
<knome> krytarik, you missed the high-five. you're one row too low.
<slickymaster> o/
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<Unit193> I don't see any.
<Unit193> #topic Updates and Announcements
<flocculant> that's good for 3 months then :)
<Unit193> We've already hit feature freeze.
<flocculant> #info - Beta 1 due next week
<Unit193> Any more, slickymaster, knome?
<knome> nope
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<Unit193> #subtopic Thunar - 16.04/16.10 (flocculant)
<slickymaster> nothing here
<Unit193> flocculant: You have the floor.
<flocculant> simply put- what are we going to do about thunar? 14.04 is EOL soon and we'll be expecting people to be upgraded to 16.04 or 16.10
<Unit193> We have a fixed thunar now in the repos, so likely going to do an SRU.
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> the question is will that be done before EOL of 14.04 
<flocculant> because if it's not
<knome> as i mentioned before, since the 14.04 core is supported for 5 years, we can extend our promised 3 years to make sure it does
<flocculant> then can we really expect people to care about EOL? 
<flocculant> knome: yes - but do we just say 'foo' on our media?
<knome> i don't think there is much more to be done
<knome> anyway, we should totally be able to land the SRU before - we still have time
<flocculant> so then we need to action that
<knome> yes
<knome> Unit193, want to help with the SRU?
<flocculant> I know this all sounds obvious - just wanted it minuted :p
<Unit193> knome: I'd hope bluesabre would.
<knome> that works
<knome> #action knome to work with bluesabre in order to get thunar SRU out ASAP
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to work with bluesabre in order to get thunar SRU out ASAP
<Unit193> flocculant: I believe it'll land close enough to the EOL, but we still have to get it in there either way.
<knome> #nick bluesabre 
<flocculant> Unit193: yup
<Unit193> flocculant: So good?
<flocculant> yea for sure
<Unit193> #subtopic Documentation team reorganization (knome)
<Unit193> knome: You have the floor.
<knome> so as you might know, the xubuntu docs branch now live under ~xubuntu-doc
<flocculant> sort of
<knome> so in the same direction of progress, we were thinking that since there is no specific reason to belong to any of those ubuntu documentation LP teams, we might just as well do that
<knome> obviously individuals are free to stay on any general documentation teams they want to 
<knome> the biggest "change" (technically, this is purely social) is that the xubuntu documentation team would not be a member of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc any more
<slickymaster> knome is right, since we now manage our own branch we really don't need to be under the ubuntu documentation umbrella just for social sake
<Unit193> Thus wouldn't get loads of bugreports for other packages, that's why I let myself expire.
<knome> but even that is justified; none of the text in the description applies to us, since this is not the way to get contributions to the xubuntu documentation even now
<knome> and yes, there is this thought of not having the doc people get that load of mail
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> does anybody think we should have a vote on this, or should we simply proceed with the actions?
<slickymaster> IMO we should just proceed with it
<krytarik> +1
<knome> (again, anything isn't affected, except getting unrelated mail will stop :))
<flocculant> I'm +1 to us doing whatever suits us
<knome> oki, then i guess we're fine
<slickymaster> Unit193?
<knome> #action knome and slickymaster to proceed with leaving some general ubuntu documentation teams
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and slickymaster to proceed with leaving some general ubuntu documentation teams
<Unit193> There seems to be no opposition or questions, so yeah.
<knome> Unit193, sorry for not waiting for the reply, but i was pretty sure you'd be for it :P
<slickymaster> lol
<Unit193> Yep, fine.
<knome> and i'm good with this, we can continue with the meeting
<Unit193> #topic Announcements
 * Unit193 scratches head.
<Unit193> OK.
<flocculant> thought we did that
<knome> yes!
<Unit193> For some reason, it's on the agenda.
<knome> #info ~xubuntu-doc left ~ubuntu-doc
<Unit193> slickymaster to schedule next meeting
<flocculant> you can have some updates if you want :p
<flocculant> #info - QA testing of 16.04.2 done and dusted, mostly internally to qa
<flocculant> #info - testing of xfce components for ochosi:xfce4-notifyd and taskmanager
<flocculant> #info - testing Setting Manager gtk3 for regressions - 3 bugs reported to bugzilla> xfce 13316, xfce 13317, xfce 13318
<flocculant> #info - testing of thunar master plus 2 sets of patches (interminably it seemed ...) - response from 1 person via m/l (thanks Pjotr)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13316 in General "Search box padding" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13316
<flocculant> #info - review Contributor Docs - removed mention of Trello
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13317 in General "Regressions between 4.12.1 and 4.13.0" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13317
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13318 in General "Setting Manager oddities" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13318
<flocculant> oh - meant to lose the xfce from those :p
<knome> lol :)
<Unit193> Anything else for this meeting?
<knome> hmm, well
<knome> let's do this
<flocculant> you might want to action slickymaster or he'll leave it for months :p
<slickymaster> bah
<Unit193> #action slickymaster to schedule next meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to schedule next meeting.
<knome> #info The Xubuntu council is hanging in #xubuntu-council if anbyody has any issues they want to take up for the council. Please note that the channel has a no-idling policy, so please do not populate the channel without anything to say - or you will be booted
<knome> there we go
<Unit193> Thanks.
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 17 22:24:17 2017 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2017/xubuntu-devel.2017-02-17-22.00.moin.txt
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193 
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :)
<Unit193> Thanks all for being here.
<knome> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> And the song just ended.
<flocculant> The Song Remains The Same too
<knome> huh
<knome> i just noticed ~xubuntu-council is a member of ~xubuntu-bugs
<knome> there's no specific reason that is so, it's the owner of that team too
 * knome silently presses a few buttons
<pleia2> now no one sees bugs \o/
<knome> (for fairness' sake, this has been done with other subteams a long time ago)
<knome> pleia2, at least not the council members ;)
<flocculant> pleia2: \o/
<knome> pleia2, unless they are members of that team directly, like sean
<slickymaster> hi pleia2 
<flocculant> knome: you hope
<knome> i don't - he is :)
<knome> besides i could add him if i wanted... O:)
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+members
<flocculant> you read his mail? 
 * flocculant leaves
<knome> lol
<knome> i don't... except those that are sent to both of us :)
<knome> well i also read the mail he sends that is sent to me... considering you consider that "his mail" ;)
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> missed the meeting :(
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<Unit193> ...On purpose, but we still gave you a treat.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I don't have to care about xfce4-mount-plugin or xfce4-sensors-plugin right? :(
 * flocculant saves not marking b1 for release next week - till next week :p
<knome> bluesabre, so, thunar SRU... do you need assistance with it, and what would that be?
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, not important
<Unit193> They released, I saw it, I put it on a list, I never touched them to put them in the PPA. :3
<Unit193> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2017-February/035454.html looks important.
<bluesabre> knome, will be going by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
 * flocculant was just reading that
<bluesabre> probably don't need help with it yet, will need some "me toos" later
<Unit193> Thanks so much for doing the SRU.
<bluesabre> SRU's aren't so bad
<knome> oki, thanks - if there is any paperwork you need me to do anyway, feel free to poke
<bluesabre> SRU verification is the worst
<bluesabre> usually goes: 6 people say it's fixed, 1 person tests it wrong perpetually and keeps commenting that it broke and sold their dog
<knome> :D
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> thanks knome
<Unit193> "Oh I didn't enable proposed, nevermind" after 3 months.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> so glad to have thunar back... nautilus is quite a bit slower
<bluesabre> nicer to look at
<bluesabre> but slow
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r491 Add preliminary support for the dark theme variant... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r492 Try to get the square buttons in headerbars right (Fixes #17... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r493 Fix the sidebar color in the dark variant (#168)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> Silly ochosi, hiding.
<knome> indeed
<bluesabre> :o
<bluesabre> dark theme variant, that sounds neat
<flocculant> but dark
<bluesabre> xfwm still doesn't support that, I think
<flocculant> very very dark
<flocculant> Xubuntu goes over to the dark side - \o/ 
<bluesabre> like ochosi's soul
<flocculant> ha 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-18
<knome> bluesabre, well said
<flocculant> we appear to have b1 on tracker already - not sure if iso is frozen though
<flocculant> knome or pleia2 - lts torrents 404 as pointed to 16.04.1 - would change that but can't find where to change it now 
<flocculant> all looks different than it used to
 * knome goes update
<flocculant> knome: cheers - couldn't work out what needed doing - seems the page links elsewhere
<flocculant> and nothing documented about that anywhere
<knome> flocculant, it's actually a bit hidden/untentional under posts -> releases, then go edit the release and you have the torrent links
<knome> this is still WIP
<knome> i've been meaning to create a "Releases" subsection on the admin so you could access all these things easily from one place
<flocculant> I saw that - made no sense so I left it be and pinged :)
<knome> this is just how wordpress wants to organize things by dedault...
<flocculant> k
<knome> but it's updated now
<flocculant> when I say I saw that - I saw 16.04.1 release 
<flocculant> cheers :)
<knome> and the good thing - it's updated everywhere with one change, so hurrah
<knome> so UI freee on march 9th... can't leave the wallpaper for the last day then
<knome> that week is going to be busy
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> no, this is for realz this time :P
<flocculant> knome: point me at the page you edited for the torrents please :)
<knome> sure...
<knome> so the path is:
<knome> posts -> releases -> click on a release name
<knome> for 16.04, that leads to https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/term.php?taxonomy=release&tag_ID=64&post_type=post&wp_http_referer=%2Fwp-admin%2Fedit-tags.php%3Ftaxonomy%3Drelease
<flocculant> aah - got it 
<knome> this is also the page where you can edit anything visible on the public release pages
<knome> well except the articles, media etc. but those are handled via the appropriate post type pages
<flocculant> yup
<knome> maybe i'll include a list of links to those on these pages
<knome> or maybe i'll create a new page for managing the releases
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/edit-tags.php?taxonomy=release <- that
<flocculant> knome: not sure if doable - but would it not be better to sort that release page the other way - so things likely to be used are top?
<knome> yes
<knome> again this is the way wordpress wants to show things
<flocculant> ...
<flocculant> ok :)
<knome> well it makes sense - alphabetical
<knome> so i'm not complaining
<knome> but you can see the more meaningful order when you write articles etc.
<flocculant> right
<knome> eg. non-EOL releases first, everything ordered newest to oldest
<flocculant> yea - I remember that now
<knome> there's another problem with that on the articles main page; since the releases taxonomy is non-hierarchical, wordpress doesn't want to show any releases on the quick edit bar - instead it expects you to know which releases are available
<flocculant> also - I'd had that odd login issue I get from time to time - took 3 or 4 logins before I could - then I couldn't find where to change it :D
<knome> but that's a very minor thing - afaik we don't attach releases to articles much after first edits
<flocculant> nope
<knome> but yes, this is all in flux
<knome> release links and download mirrors definitely should go under the releases menu as well
<knome> well maybe not the mirrors, but yeah
<flocculant> yea - I kind of was aware things were changing - didn't expect to not find it is all - didn't think of clikcing on release :p
<knome> yeah, too obvious ;)
<knome> fortunately this is only an internal problem
<knome> well...
<knome> :D
<flocculant> yea ofc
<knome> that said, i'd like to make the releases more visible on the site as well
<knome> wonder if i pushed that code to production...
 * knome checks
<knome> oh yeah
<knome> why isn't that in the menu
<knome> oh wait it is!
<knome> great
<knome> --> https://xubuntu.org/releases/
<knome> good good
 * knome pats himself in the back
<knome> aaanyway
<flocculant> lol
<knome> time to do something else for a while - bbl
<flocculant> yea same - cya
<Unit193> xfdesktop4, xfce4-weather-plugin, and xfce4-notifyd uploaded to Debian.
<Unit193> Document C/index.xml does not validate
<Unit193> Makefile:73: recipe for target 'test' failed
<knome> ufh
<Unit193> qa-tester.xml:52: element itemizedlist: validity error  -  qa-bugs.xml:14: element chapter: validity error
<pleia2> knome: I can replicated that www.xubuntu.org bug
<pleia2> Chrome gives me: This server could not prove that it is www.xubuntu.org; its security certificate expired 88 days ago. 
<pleia2> xubuntu.org works fine, just not the www.
<knome> oh...
 * pleia2 does the thing in the bug
<knome> thanks
<knome> otoh, i've been bugging IS to make sure the redirects all go to one place but still not happening
<knome> :|
<pleia2> yeah, every time they move something it gets messed up again
<knome> yep...
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-19
<krytarik> knome, flocculant: This is what I've done locally with regards to the doc syntax errors Unit193 referred to, further formatting errors, the few typos I mentioned yesterday, as well as some wordings that I think could be improved - please review, before I do anything with it: http://paste.openstack.org/show/l8oDqhn3ZEl9yO5YKrGO/
<knome> krytarik, lgtm
<Unit193> bluesabre: Granted, could FFe (or ask if needed) with notifyd.
<knome> has somebody taken care to reply to renan almeida, who contacted team through LP on PT-BR translation?
<flocculant> krytarik: typo > windowi
<krytarik> Ah nice!  Didn't notice that. :P
<flocculant> otherwise I'm fine :)
<flocculant> re your pm ... 
<krytarik> Alright, guess I'll push it right away then.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> only 'really' looked at what you said in pm - not sure how I noticed windowi :p
<krytarik> lol
<flocculant> as you've seen I have a love/hate relationship with punctuation :D
<krytarik> Yes yes! :P
<flocculant> sometimes I love to hate it and then don't bother 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r629 Syntax, formatting, typo, and wording fixes. (by Krytarik Raido)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-mount-plugin 1.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-mount-plugin-1-1-1-released-tp48911.html (by Fabian Nowak)
<ali1234> xrandr
<ali1234> hey so gtk3 is completely broken under virtualbox now
<flocculant> not used vbox for ~3 cycles or so
<ali1234> if you install virtualbox-guest-x11 then gtk3 programs immediately exit at startup with no error
<ali1234> before they even open a window
<flocculant> ali1234: which one - repo or vbox( or both I guess)
<ali1234> note that virtualbox-guest-utils no longer installs -x11
<ali1234> everything from 17.04 repos
<flocculant> never used to install that - used vbox version and their guest stuff
<flocculant> ali1234:  is -x11 needed? 
<ali1234> without it, the xfce4 display settings dialog segfaults at startup
 * flocculant installs it 
<flocculant> is there an lp bug? tried ubuntu at all? 
<ali1234> there is an LP bug which i submitted
<ali1234> it was marked as a duplicate of a private bug, so you can't see it, and i can't make it public
<flocculant> vbox won't even start
<flocculant> oh probably need some services to start
<ali1234> bug 1665048
<ubottu> bug 1665048 in xfce4-settings "xfce4-display-settings crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1665048
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> i unlinked it from the duplicate
<flocculant> yea saw that one
<flocculant> ali1234: from the live session display settings is fine, and when you say gtk3 programs - do you mean any?
<ali1234> seems like pretty much any program at all
<ali1234> i'm doing a backtrace for dislay settings manually
<ali1234> since apport wont do it
<flocculant> well tried calc, archive, menulibre - all gtk3 afaik - all work
<ali1234> did you reboot?
<flocculant> installing now - see if there's a difference
<ali1234> are you in the live session?
<flocculant> yea
<ali1234> because live session works fine
<flocculant> ok - see ^^ :)
<ali1234> you have to install it, then fully update all packages, then install virtualbox-guest-x11, then reboot
<ali1234> you might also need to enable two monitors in the machine config
<flocculant> I'll see ig I can confirm - I'll also see if it all goes belly up in ubuntu
<flocculant> ack
<flocculant> rebooting with 2 monitors
<flocculant> or trying to reboot
<ali1234> the reboot dialog is one of the few things that doesn't get broken
<ali1234> the control panel stuff still works too
<ali1234> as does xterm
<flocculant> won't boot
<ali1234> nice :/
<flocculant> tries to lightdm - vbox window itself resizes itself 4 or 5 times - then it just sits there
<ali1234> well i never saw that one
<ali1234> although - i set up my VM to auto login
<ali1234> so maybe it never even tries to show lightdm
<ali1234> press right-ctrl + f1 to get to a console
<flocculant> tried restarting lightdm 
<ali1234> try removing virtualbox-guest-x11 and rebooting
<flocculant> if that was going to be next :)
<flocculant> yup - booted
<flocculant> nice 
<flocculant> up arrow to move it to 2 displays, I stopped it when it had reached 38
<flocculant> ok - so that's knackered ... trying to replicate that with Ubuntu now
<flocculant> ali1234: ok - so without the -x11 - got a boot, without it will let me set 2 displays but only see's one when booted (I assume expected given -x11 not installed)
<ali1234> it works fine if i install from the VBOXADDITIONS CD image
<ali1234> not sure about display settings though
<flocculant> I got some error trying to install that
<ali1234> yeah you will unless you purge the repo packages
<ali1234> -x11 pulls in -utils
<ali1234> not the other way around
<flocculant> aah ok
<ali1234> the display settings thing - there's reports of the same crash without virtualbox even involved
<flocculant> I'll dig out old monitor tomorrow and try on hardware
<ali1234> it seems quite hard to reproduce
<ali1234> oh yeah ubuntu removed droid fonts :(
<knome> yes, because droid isn't "supported"
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hello
<ali1234> what is the default font of gnome?
<flocculant> ali1234: with ubuntu - sometimes see the ubuntu splash screen when vbox window does it's bizarre thing
<knome> don't know about gnome, but if you haven't been following, "noto" is the "successor" for droid
<knome> ali1234, ^
<ali1234> i know noto is the successor
<knome> and nice to see your nick around here again :)
<ali1234> gnome uses cantarell
<knome> right... why do i link that to apple? :P
<ali1234> trouble is that noto looks really awful on gtk because it is aligned differently
<knome> it takes getting used to
<ali1234> cantarell is aligned properly but it is really really thin like a MS font
<knome> i didn't want to use noto at first but now i'm fine with it
<knome> i had the exact same issue...
<ali1234> by "differently" i mean it's visibly misaligned
<knome> could a DPI change fix that?
<knome> and yes i guess it can be a bit misaligned at places too
<ali1234> all my systems are overridden to 96 DPI already
<ali1234> noto actually looks better in the "new" adwaita
<ali1234> the one that cuts the top and bottom off icons
<knome> right
<flocculant> ali1234: reinstalling xubuntu - tried the vbox version and that wouldn't install, some dep on libpng version
<flocculant> anyway - just want to be sure here - install -guest-utils in guest or host? 
<ali1234> in guest
<ali1234> dont install anything in the host
<ali1234> except virtualbox
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> knome: long time since I vbox'd :)
<ali1234> it seems to be caused by version mismatch anyway
<ali1234> i have't noticed any problems yet
<ali1234> after installing the utils supplied by the host virtualbox
<flocculant> that might be why it was having a paddy then - had other stuff installed on host
<flocculant> ali1234: can't confirm that bug - tried a few times
<flocculant> installing -x11 and I get this odd window resizing issue
<ali1234> er... what the heck happened to font rendering in libvte??
<ali1234> its like it is using a completely different font for bold text
<ali1234> oh right... that's because it is...
<ali1234> (yes, xfce terminal does the same thing)
<ali1234> i suppose this is why there is a "allow bold text" option
<ali1234> oh i see. it is hinting
<ali1234> greybird-accessibility decorations are nice...
<ali1234> its basically orion :)
<flocculant> ali1234: can't get it to crash with a second monitor on nvidia either
<ali1234> what?
<ali1234> which bug are you actually testing now?
<ali1234> the xfce-display-settings bug doesn't need dual monitors
<flocculant> well not the vbox thing - but you mentioned people seeing issue without vbox 
<ali1234> i've seen it happen in virtualbox with just one monitor
<flocculant> ok
<ali1234> there are reports of it happening outside virtualbox with two monitors
<flocculant> yes - I read that - not seeing it
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> anyway - reported the issue I did see - and likely won't see anything added to that till someone marks it aas let's ignore it
<flocculant> ali1234: might be worth seeing if slickymaster can replicate your issue, pretty sure he uses vbox all the time
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<ali1234> to be honest it was probably caused by the bad virtualbox guest utils as well
<ali1234> would be nice if it didn't crash on bad input though
<ali1234> it's not like xrandr was completely wrong or unavailable
<ali1234> i'll make yet another vm and try to repro it again
<ali1234> im sure i once managed to make it crash with no guest utils at all
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> ali1234, there was an update to fontconfig last year that made everything worse, particularly vte
<bluesabre> worse sounds negative
<bluesabre> "different"
<flocculant> nothing wrong with worse, unless you're a snowflake :p
<ali1234> it does look a bit different
<ali1234> but all the problems i mentioned above i was able to recreate in 16.04
<bluesabre> flocculant, the pervasion of that word in the few months >.<
<ali1234> by changing the settings
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea I knome  
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> I know ...
<bluesabre> we all knome from time to time
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ali1234> i think a few defaults have changed
<ali1234> plus its hard to tell when i can't use my regular font any more :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: assuming that we've still got broken lock this week - what do you think we should do on Thursday - b1 release day
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> let's pull in robert this week and see whats up
<bluesabre> flocculant, have we had any updates regarding that recently?
<flocculant> bluesabre: not since the one that you and ochosi were relaxed about
<flocculant> not so easy for me to catch him - timezones
<ali1234> hmm okay this is weird. i have a font installed called just "sans"
<ali1234> that's what i was using all along, because droid sans isn't even installed. when i changed fonts, droid sans disappeared from the list and i could not reselect it
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/885122/what-is-the-font-in-ubuntu-which-is-just-called-sans
<knome> isn't that dejavu sans?
<ali1234> yes, sort of
<ali1234> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1675235
<ali1234> basically, "Sans" is a fallback which for me (and probably most people) ends up as dejavu sans
<knome> yep
<knome> dejavu sans is pretty extensive, so i don't think it needs many glyphs from other fonts
<ali1234> that also explains why i thought i was using droid, but really i was using dejavu
<ali1234> and also why noto looks completely different
<ali1234> because it really is
<knome> the droid/noto comparison is considerable too
<ali1234> dejavu is *much* wider than droid/noto
<knome> yep
<ali1234> for me that's the most noticable difference
<knome> there's also height difference with noto/droid
<knome> not sure how they compare to dejavu sans
<ali1234> yep, and with ubuntu as well
<knome> yep
<ali1234> youd think a 10 pt font would always be the same size
<ali1234> at least in one dimension
<knome> though you could kind of expect that noto/droid were closer...
<knome> fonts are weird
<ali1234> okay i reproduced the display crash
<ali1234> got it nailed down this time
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5WRaaHEXQ
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-12
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume there's nothing wrong with force syncing menulibre?
<bluesabre> Unit193: indeed, feel free to, otherwise I was going to in the morning
<bluesabre> Unit193: any ideas for the double network icons (both in ind- and statusnotifier-)?
<Unit193> Afraid I've not seen it.
<bluesabre> Darn :)
<bluesabre> Seems to only affect bionic, so could be related to the ayatana-ification of ind-
<bluesabre> but will see if I can figure out more this week
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> Also I'll let you pick it up as LP hasn't yet.
<flocculant> ochosi: afraid not :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: I had double net icons during 17.10 
<flocculant> bluesabre: in bionic though I can't seem to stop the doubleification of it, in arty - restarting panel or network would stop the issue for session
<Unit193> flocculant: Did you try out xfce4-settings 4.13 without xserver-xorg-input-synaptics and with xserver-xorg-input-libinput?
<flocculant> Unit193: no - but then not got a mobile thingy I'd need to try it with
<Unit193> Coolio.
<flocculant> I'm just working forward from bug report that caused us to xserver-blah
<flocculant> iirc libiput didn't have something on by default
<flocculant> ^^ limit of what I can tell people :p
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<bluesabre> seems like just blacklisting libayatana-application.so in ind- would solve it, http://i.imgur.com/BjcWhA5.png, or am I wrong?
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> you can't click that checkbox apparently
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> restarting the panel made it show
<bluesabre> er, work
<bluesabre> indicator-messages is mia though
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1748863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748863 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Messaging menu gone, items duplicated after libayatana port" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Yeah -sound is gone too, I hadn't fixed it because...Well if I do something now, it'll break sync and we'll want that later.
<Unit193> Didn't know there was anything but sound messed up.
<Unit193> Nice to know it broke everything...
<Unit193> Pushed libxfce4ui finally.
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack
<flocculant> bluesabre: also next meeting is your's to do with as you please - might be useful prior to b1 (8th March)
<bluesabre> Unit193: do we know of a good fix, or would it be worthwhile to swap the libraries back?
<Unit193> I'm not exactly sure, it should work as far as I know. :/
<Unit193> Gotta admit, with the renaming of the PPAs, I'm even more confused with them.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-13
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunarx-python 0.5.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunarx-python-0-5-1-released-tp50645.html (by Adam Plumb-2)
<Unit193> bluesabre: menulibre/catfish/etc won't build in the 'backports' ppa unless fixes happen. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: hm?
<bluesabre> you mean like dropping the debhelper version?
<Unit193> Well that'd do it, sure.
<bluesabre> Where are the issues?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages
<Unit193> That just works though, because lazy to fix. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I figured making the packages happy in unstable and bionic would make backports a bit more annoying :)
<Unit193> Add my staging PPA as a B-D in the backports PPA and problem is gone.
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: i presume we still have enough time to push both stable exo and screenshooter 1.9.1 into 18.04, right?
<ochosi> would be nice to get it into the staging PPA in any case...
<Unit193> It's been in the PPA for quite some time.
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> maybe i have it already /o\
<ochosi> (i do)
<Unit193> flocculant: BTW, jumped to Bionic on another one.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-volumed-pulse 0.2.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-volumed-pulse-0-2-3-released-tp50652.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-14
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should check what else we want to get done for 18.04
<ochosi> just to be sure
<ochosi> as time is slowly running out
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> will probably tidy up the bp tomorrow or so
<bluesabre> and plan a meeting for next week
<ochosi> two weeks till feature freeze...
<ochosi> and we also need a decision on gtk-theme-config
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> need to test your code on that still
<ochosi> yup, should be easy
<ochosi> despite the obvious error in the script
<bluesabre> probably looking at new stable releases for exo, parole, and xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin in the next 2 weeks
<bluesabre> and menulibre
<bluesabre> gonna be busy :D
<bluesabre> as for now, going to be not-busy
<bluesabre> back tomorrow!
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> we should get all that we can into 18.04 :)
<Unit193> Don't forget xfdesktop patch.
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> Hopefully we can get eric back on that
<bluesabre> The existing patch looks complicated, and the lightdm patch looks more complicated
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 0.12.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-12-0-released-tp50654.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<flocculant> Unit193: ok is it?
<Unit193> Seems fine, though didn't use the upgrader tool.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> And I finally got libxfce4iu in too. :P
<Unit193> ui
<flocculant> yea saw thaat in -proposed so grabbed it :)
 * flocculant still gnashes teeth at missing open terminal option on desktop menu
<Unit193> There was something on that..
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=4c77522252500818869654832594a2d38c3dc291
<flocculant> I guess I could git build it
<Unit193> Shouldn't that be exo though?
<flocculant> no idea tbh
<flocculant> pretty much given up on things now
<Unit193> :/
<Unit193> flocculant: Soo...Any way I can make this better?
<jalt> Hi, is there a new target release date for Xubuntu 16.04.4 ISO? Alternatively, is there a daily or dev ISO I can download? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/xenial/daily-live/current/ might be it but it still says 16.04.3. Lastly, is there a public tracker where I can see the blockers for the release?
<flocculant> jalt: good timing
<flocculant> I just read a mail on the ubuntu-release mailing list, 16.04.4 set for 1st March
<jalt> oh
<jalt> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-February/004287.html
<jalt> thanks for the pointer flocculant
<flocculant> jalt: no problem :)
<jalt> is the /xenial/daily-live/current iso the future 16.04.4?
<jalt> i have a little iso remastering script for unattended installation and would like to test it. i don't expect breakages, but you never know...
<flocculant> jalt: seems so - built today - obviously it could possibly change between now and 1/3/2018 but it'd usually just be apt update/upgrade to get to the 'actual' release
<jalt> thanks again flocculant. anything particularly juicy planned for xubuntu 18.04? and i mean xubuntu specific.
<flocculant> not that I'm aware of - and I should be aaware
<flocculant> mostly we're still getting gtk3 stuff from Xfce - given that 18.04 is LTS we're more aiming for stability, the cycle(s) after 18.04 are likely to see more
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-media-tags-plugin 0.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-media-tags-plugin-0-3-0-released-tp50669.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<bluesabre> Suppose I should document the interesting bits
<bluesabre> If we act quick, approval for core/base might be much easier right now http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubuntu-18-04-minimal-install-option
<bluesabre> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-15
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-February/040139.html
<Unit193> ...So if you opt-out, it tells them you opted out thus not actually fully opting out?  Otherwise it doesn't sound like the end of the world, but still not fond of it.  Part of that is I've had to poke them many times about fixing popcon, and it always breaks again.
<Unit193> (It's been broken since Jun 2016 because I stopped bothering.)
<Unit193> The privacy break was with update-motd, it's less bad than it was but still a bit...hidden.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.14 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-14-released-tp50674.html (by Alex)
 * flocculant waits for that swiss bert to talk about thunar 1.7.0 ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: documenting interesting bits would be useful for me at least :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: also would be rather intersting to see what happens with our iso and this new option :)
<flocculant> pinged in release about that ubiquity thing - and how it affects flavours - and reminded about our core 
<flocculant> and some talk there too
<flocculant> that could be an interesting diversion for some - already I'm confused :p
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.7.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-7-1-released-tp50676.html (by Alex)
 * flocculant suspects foul play from swiss bert 
<flocculant> do we get that for 18.04 bluesabre  :D
<flocculant> thunar 1.7 not foul play ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: finally got a bionic vanilla - I'll run with that for a week, and see what I find there - anything specific you or ochosi want me to check out, bear in mind this install is full of ppa and git
<flocculant> not working tomorrow so prior to sunrise I can fiddle about to make music and mpd work for me
<flocculant> best sort nfs outputs too - or I'll scratch my head ...
<flocculant> (firefox and tbird will use my elsewhere profile though - so only xubuntu issues to look at please)
<flocculant> bluesabre knome - please check the *bold* installer issue note (or anyone watching)
<flocculant> does it make sense
<flocculant> knome: how do I make the whole of that stanza red - not some of it - all of it ;)
<flocculant> quite important imo - every cycle we get 'installer issues' that we can't actually do anything about so we need to move those things elsewhere if you ask me
<flocculant> if we get iszsues like lxde did when it efeectively died as an install then we can shout - or the lead (council can)
<flocculant> lubuntu appear to be effective in getting things done ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: where?
<bluesabre> flocculant: thunar 1.6.x for bionic
<bluesabre> flocculant: foul play for bionic+1
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh good lord - where? is just not fair lol
<bluesabre> relative timestamp?
<flocculant> yea - can we have gtk3 everythings for lts
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> not going to do that to you :)
<flocculant> I can check current for a week on vanilla - anything specific to look at?
<flocculant> haha 
<bluesabre> oh that
<flocculant> yea ok :D
<bluesabre> we know notifications are a bit crashy atm
<bluesabre> sound plug should be completely functional except for the grey icon at some startups
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm really all over the place currently package wise - so a list of vanilla newness
<bluesabre> also, if notifications crash, volume changes get slow
<flocculant> bluesabre: well pa grey UI get EVERY boot
<bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha, will get you a list of that tonight then
<flocculant> without fail
<bluesabre> handy
<bluesabre> I think I have a solution for the double icons
<flocculant> ack
<bluesabre> going to annoy Unit193 with my proposal of undoing the ayatana port on that one
<bluesabre> but yet
<flocculant> oh cool - that one is shit - looks rubbish
<bluesabre> will do some listy things
<bluesabre> gotta run for now, bbl
<flocculant> that'd be helpful
<flocculant> bluesabre: try for a list this weekend - I'll run boring bionic for as long as I can cope, get some feedbacks to you and ochosi on theming issues
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, I know.  I just don't like it because when we'll be ready, we won't be in sync (but functionally will be the same.)
<flocculant> I do not aplogise for the following ...
<flocculant> HOW CAN WE EVEN TELL PEOPLE TO INSTALL XUBUNTU WGHEN WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT LOOKS OR WORKS
<flocculant> SIGH
<flocculant> SIGH
<flocculant> SIGH
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-16
<bluesabre> Not sure what the panic is about
<bluesabre> Looks the same as always
<bluesabre> Works a little bit better each release
<bluesabre> flocculant: feel free to let loose on the theming issues :)
<flocculant> really?
<flocculant> ochosi: relly?
<flocculant> :d
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm not panicking
<flocculant> but I really have no handle on where we are, what we intend
<flocculant> all I'm feeling able to say atm is - 17.10 stable and if you see a bug and it's not reported anywhere - then expect to see it
<flocculant> but 
<Unit193> 1. Switch the seeds such that indicator-sound is out, pa-plug is in, same deal with indicator-application and sn-plug.  2. Swap GNOME tools for MATE.  3. Keep the themes from breaking with the new GTK3.  4. Maybe get gtk-theme-config working.
<flocculant> supposedly I'm one of 2 QA leads - so how does that look :(
<flocculant> to be completely honest - I haven't got a fucking clue what to expect
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> I'm supposed to test this stuff for hundreds of people
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-b-development is updated now
<flocculant> this is testing for a flavour 
<bluesabre> upcoming: exo package, menulibre 2.2, parole 1.0, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.0
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings 4.12.(next)
<bluesabre> will have a better list soon, but those are the main things
<bluesabre> ochosi: are we still interested in "[xubuntu-dev] thunar: Provide more default custom actions (printing, convert to pdf): TODO" or should we postpone that? If we add the actions, we'll also need time for translations
<flocculant> 2 channels left - intersting
 * flocculant bets on seeing sod all for days and days in a non -offtopic channel
<bluesabre> for an absurdly detailed diff of artful to bionic, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes (note that dokuwiki's table sorting is garbage, but the data can be copied to lo calc)
<Unit193> xfce4-panel should be merged from unstable, can drop xubuntu_migrate-tasklist-separator.patch too.
<ochosi> bluesabre: the custom actions are a little problematic, too much hardcoded stuff that may end up not working for everyone
<ochosi> i was too optimistic in the beginning
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/8792729/+listing-archive-extra approve?
<Unit193> I also have sntray-plugin packaged, because I was asked.  Not sure if anyone wants to poke at it?
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, will postpone that then
<bluesabre> Unit193: approve
<Unit193> OK, wasn't sure about dropping the patch.  Thanks!
<pleia2> bluesabre: setting up the wallpaper competition to go out today, when should we ask these to be in by? (to hit goals for release, etc)
<pleia2> thinking getting submissions in by March 15 gives us plenty of time
<pleia2> https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-18-04-community-wallpaper-contest/ :)
<pleia2> shared on G+ and FB
<knome> and tweeted
<knome> bbl ...
<genii> Hm, 2560 x 1600
<Unit193> exo and thunar uploaded.
<ochosi> noice
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-17
<Unit193> ~backports uploaded to PPA`
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did tha aforementioned, added my PPA as build requirement.
<bluesabre> pleia2: I think your decision was good :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: much appreciated
<pleia2> ok, good :)
<bluesabre> and now it's time for bed
<bluesabre> nighty allll
<Unit193> G'nighty.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/dWHboool1hPkiFjDocCw btw.
<Unit193> (http://paste.openstack.org/show/Uo1cWwyaGCkudnACrk64/)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-sntray-plugin_0.4.8-1.dsc btw if you want to try it, but I recommend xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin much more highly. :P
<bluesabre> good morning!
<Unit193> Heya.
<bluesabre> Unit193: here's the fixed ind-plugin, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zbPsN4BP3K/
<Unit193> That's what my last paste was. :P
<bluesabre> that I was working on at the same time
<bluesabre> I see now
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> well, good on us for being productive
<bluesabre> you're the nicer guy, I tossed aside the ubuntu history in mine
<Unit193> -Recommends: ayatana-indicator-application  â This isn't documented, but otherwise nice.
<Unit193> Yes, but you did better with the actual changelog. :P
<Unit193> ..Hit wrap-and-sort before uploading if you don't mind?
<bluesabre> don't know what that means, so feel free to do that and upload yours
<Unit193> It'll sort the build-depends, it's an actual application.
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> but yeah, go ahead and upload
<bluesabre> going to try to figure out the xfdesktop thing today
<Unit193> (I really don't mind if you do.)  OK, great.  That's one I can't do!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Not convinced I can either, but going to throw code at the wall and see what sticks (and works)
<Unit193> Ouch, thanks for trying.  Simon was the last to touch that patch, fwiw.
<bluesabre> actually, it might not be so hard
<bluesabre> just a lot of noise in that commit
<Unit193> BTW, in case you need to backport to Xenial you can add ppa:unit193/staging  as a PPA dep, such that it uses https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+build/14363096
<Unit193> bluesabre: cd xfdesk*;git init;gbp import-dsc ../xfd*.dsc;gbp pq import; do the changes, ammend commit? :>
<bluesabre> here we go, that will make this easier
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-settings-daemon/accountsservice-background/+merge/335431
<Unit193> Nice!  I didn't see it.
<ochosi> kewl, good to hear bluesabre 
<ochosi> i didn't get to it, was busy bisecting notifyd
<ochosi> didn't want us to have something that crashes here and there in the LTS...
<ochosi> anyway, how about including screenshooter 1.9 now that we have exo too?
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193, sounds fine to me, https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-screenshooter/tree/NEWS
<Unit193> In PPA, been picked up by Debian, now that exo is in only a matter of time.
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi, Unit193: Got a working patch for xfdesktop :) Is there a LP bug that needs to be marked fixed with this?
<ochosi> weee
<ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
<ochosi> possible that there's no bugreport yet
<ochosi> couldn't find one at least
<bluesabre> Unit193: care to test? http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4VdZzK2ty7/
<flocculant> shall see what goes on there then :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: how many monitors do you have?
<bluesabre> I think I have a fix for the greeter going crazy and flickering non-stop and not allowing the user to login bug... but I can't seem to determine if that's ever been reported or if it only plagues me
<bluesabre> unless it is one of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1410406 or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1410406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1410406 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "black screen after booting, 100% cpu usage" [Critical,Triaged]
<bluesabre> (or the one that is not the same number, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1509780)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1509780 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "High cpu usage when lightdm screenlock is active" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> in fact, knowing what it is doing now, I feel pretty confident that it is those
<knome> :)
<benoliver999> Hey - I am trying to upload to the photo contest but keep getting PHP filesize upload limit errors. I have 3 images, the largest is 4.8M.
<benoliver999> The wallpaper contest I mean, sorry.
<bluesabre> knome
<knome> bluesabre
<knome> right...
 * knome checks
<knome> we should be at 8MB
<knome> pleia2, any insight on this?
<knome> Unit193, or there?
<knome> wait, no
<knome> different setting for php7
<knome> benoliver999, can you retry now?
<knome> pleia2, Unit193: problem solved, resume with life
<benoliver999> Yup looks good!
<benoliver999> Thanks
<knome> np
<knome> thanks for participating
<Unit193> More than willing to test.
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/thunar_1.7.1-1.html
<Unit193> bluesabre: Am I supposed to see if it compiles, works at all, or leaks?  Does the first two!
<Unit193> flocculant: You had mentioned wanting a working desktop, would you be interested in me syncing thunar from experimental to the PPA, then adding the compatibility patch to xfdesktop there? (Stacked atop the background fixing upload.)
<Unit193> I note that we won't be looking to put that version of thunar in Bionic however, it being an LTS release we'd like to put as few development builds in.
<ochosi> bluesabre: there is a bug sometimes when the mousepointer is over the login password input field and the whole thing starts to flicker and eat CPU
<ochosi> bluesabre: only clicking into the password field makes that stop
<knome> i also noticed today the mouse pointer is larger on the login screen than my desktop (:
<ochosi> yeah, the greeter uses the systemwide mouse settings
<ochosi> not the session/user settings
<knome> i don't know that i have changed my user settings though?
<ochosi> maybe not, but maybe the system default deviates from what we define in xubuntu-default-settings, which may only affect the session
<ochosi> (just guessing)
<Unit193> We use DMZ-White.
<knome> maybe...
<knome> i haven't noticed before (the new monitor) though
<knome> what's the setting for you then?
<ochosi> haven't checked
<ochosi> but for me there has never been a diff
<Unit193> update-alternatives --query x-cursor-theme
<knome> me neither - so far as far as i can see
<ochosi> yeah, i also use DMZ-White (if that was the question)
<knome> yep.
<knome> me too
<knome> my cursor size is 24
<knome> is is off-default?
<knome> *it
<Unit193> (And xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/CursorThemeName)
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: it's about time we decide what to do with gtk-theme-config (i know, another reminder...) i can probably make it a greybird-config or i can make it less broken than it currently is, but it cannot be "fixed" in the final sense
<ochosi> i'm happy to either drop it or at least push an improved version
<ochosi> but the current thing cannot be part of the release imo
<knome> i agree with the last line
<ochosi> (not sure *that* many ppl use it, after all, almost nobody complained about it being so utterly broken already)
<knome> do you think you have sensibly time to fix it for this LTS, or would it just eat time from other stuff?
<Unit193> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=gtk-theme-config
<knome> Unit193 and the link show
<knome> ;)
<knome> or _ink show
<ochosi> Unit193: is that a lot compared to "other" stuff?
<ochosi> i mean what would you compare it with?
<ochosi> knome: as it's bugfix, we still have a bit of time
<knome> that's not the question...
<ochosi> the question is what you understand as "fix"
<ochosi> you already saw how far i got until now
<knome> whatever you consider "good enough to ship with an LTS"
<ochosi> and i can't get that much further
<ochosi> i.e. there are things i cant fix
<ochosi> i also described those already
<ochosi> (e.g. tabs)
<knome> my question directly relates to whether we are potentially eating your time which you could use to do something more useful
<ochosi> so it's hard to say what is "good enough to ship"
<ochosi> of course it will :)
<ochosi> but the question is what else we really want to get done in time for 18.04
<Unit193> I'd learn towards rm -rf as a fix. :3
<knome> in that case i'd probably vote for "drop it for this LTS"
<knome> and no replacement
<knome> we can revisit later if people start crying
<ochosi> another power manager bugfix release? or another clipman bugfix release?
<ochosi> or whatever
<ochosi> dunno if we have other critical bugs to attend to 
<ochosi> bluesabre took out one that i would have considered annoying (xfdesktop)
<ochosi> and he took care of the greeter
<knome> maybe provide the current version - or something slightly improved - in a PPA?
<ochosi> and there has been another thunar 1.6 release that i didn't have to do \o/
<ochosi> so depending on where we feel we need fixes, i can spend some time
<Unit193> But can we trust it? :3
<ochosi> Unit193: we can test it ;)
<ochosi> anyway, give it some thought
<ochosi> i'll be back tomorrow or so
<Unit193> !info thunar bionic
<ochosi> nighty!
<Unit193> I mean...
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.14-1 (bionic), package size 305 kB, installed size 1036 kB
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<bluesabre> ochosi: there's some critical parole bugs if you want to poke that at all
<bluesabre> ochosi: still need to give your -theme-config code a try, probably tomorrow for that
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for testing, was really only worried about it working, so that sounds agreeable
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.3.3-1ubuntu1
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-18
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/P4nhbj9KVhcbSGuAMhyu my version is more fun. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Did I show you my (horrible?) mangling of dh_autoreconf?
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 for the upload
<Unit193> Now is there anything *I* forgot? :3
<bluesabre> :o
<bluesabre> hope not
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/RFImaj7WtTjVrutsXNCK.  Sure thing, hopefully everything is good.
<bluesabre> also just uploaded https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/4.12.3-4ubuntu2
<Unit193> (I did test it of course.)
<Unit193> Nice!
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> time to do something else
<knome> ttyl
<flocculant> Unit193: yea I could try a working desktop :p and ack for lts
<flocculant> bluesabre: if I can get in the loft and find it - got 2 monitors
<Unit193> ...3 minutes to build, more than 30 to publish.
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks - unfortunately - still got bits missing on desktop right click
<flocculant> bbl
<Unit193> xfdesktop4 patched yet to come, needed thunar to publish.
<Unit193> (It's there now.)
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you ever look into using https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/tree/xfce4-session-logout/main.c#n93 here https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/plugins/actions/actions.c#n893?
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/187296289/xfce4-panel_4.11.1-0ubuntu1_4.11.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz something like this would even allow you to do it conditionally.
<Unit193> Also, as far as I know, GDM only works for GNOME now, so gdmflexiserver is an odd choice.
<flocculant> Unit193: oh right - I get so confused - and easily :p
<Unit193> flocculant: Not 100% sure what that'll add, or if you'll have everything now.
<flocculant> just upgrading
<flocculant> took a logout - but all back which was missing
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh you might want to take the patch that's in the PPA for upstreaming?  Easy to refresh, but already done there.
<flocculant> Unit193: you know much about indicators and stuff we have now? transmission used to minimise to notification area - and show up in indicators, now it doesn't show in either :D
<flocculant> or at least I should check the live session too ...
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks for xfdesktop :)
<Unit193> 1. Make sure xfce4-indicator-plugin is upgraded if you use indicator-application.  2. Switching to sn-plugin this cycle, but not sure if you added it.
<Unit193> Sure thing!
<flocculant> Unit193: no upgrades for x-i-plugin available
<flocculant> I have sn-plugin from git
<flocculant> oh - I have pa-plugin from git
<bluesabre> today's iso has the updated x-i-plugin
 * flocculant will check transmission there in as long as it takes it to boot
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - what is sn-plugin shorthand for ...
<Unit193> statusnotifier, sorry but it's just so long. :3
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> snot-nosed
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ok - so it's installed :p
<flocculant> snot and all 
<Unit193> (Which I realize is bad because technically sntray exists, but I like to pretend not.)
<flocculant> transmission is not appearing in notification and/or indicators in some future version for everyone else then - works in live session
<bluesabre> I wonder if the leftover ayatana libraries might be messing things up
<flocculant> possible - this install is really due for a blitz tbh - no idea what's going on in it anymore
<Unit193> No, it's just a library.  Unless he has ayatana-indicator-application.
<flocculant> ii  ayatana-indicator-application
<flocculant> that one 
<Unit193> Purge it.
<Unit193> (I have no idea why that didn't work...)
<flocculant> wallpaper at login screen now
<flocculant> \o/
<bluesabre> woot
<flocculant> transmission in notifications now
<flocculant> so my weird install then
<flocculant> anyway - bbl
<ochosi> Unit193: sry, i forgot about that again...
<ochosi> btw, on the 2nd of march i plan to takr a day off work to.hack on xfce
<ochosi> if there are critical issues we need fixed, i could focus on it then
<ochosi> if anybody wants to join, that's more than welcome!
<knome> meh, wrong day choice :P
<ochosi> knome, Unit193: any of you wanna engage in some thinking of what's the best default/setting for notification body sizes?
<ochosi> currently i'm trying to limit the width to a 3rd of the screen maximum and 5 lines of text (after which it gets ellipsized)
<ochosi> note that this doesn't work in any of the notifyd releases yet
<ochosi> just spent another hour on the various label settings and it seems i may have found something that works
<ochosi> only question is what values to set
<ochosi> (as in: is 5 lines of body too much/ not enough?)
<ochosi> (note that if there are newlines inserted into the body, this label setting breaks and seems to allow for >5 lines)
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i think i did stumble upon a way to do the custom action i wanted to add to thunar for 18.04 (Printing files): https://github.com/wotomg/thunar-fastprint/blob/master/thunar-print.sh
<ochosi> that looks very reasonable, allows LO file printing without the need for adding unoconv
<ochosi> if you also don't have concerns, i'd propose that on a branch
<ochosi> erm, still no xfpm 1.6 in bionic?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-11
<krytarik> amerigena: LP bug 1756238 seems to have destilled the actual cause of the issue.  However, where have you heard of what would rather infer a removal of the package from the official Ubuntu repos?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756238 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "gdebi-gtk broken in 18.04 error: unable to read filedescriptor flags" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756238
<amerigena> Heard it from a developer that I work with.
<amerigena> I write documenation for a small distro called Freespire / Linspire.
<amerigena> If this is mistaken, that's fine. I just wanted to verify, that's all.
<amerigena> Thanks.
<krytarik> Well, I haven't heard anything to that extent yet - but maybe someone else on the team did.
<amerigena> OK.Just curious.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: would you like to spot check https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/catfish before I poke mapreri
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> JackFrost: can you also spot check https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/mugshot ? I think both packages should be ready to roll, but good to have another pair of eyes
<bluesabre> JackFrost: any tips on making pristine-tar run by default with `gbp import-orig --uscan`, it looks like that's one thing I always miss
<bluesabre> (and how to do it after I already missed it?)
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Only thing I can think of is if you wanted to use 'debhelper-compat' in both, d/gbp.conf: pristine-tar = True is what you're looking for, and then for catfish perhaps bump copyright years since the source did.
<JackFrost> pristine-tar commit ../tarball.tar.gz
<JackFrost> However, in the case of mugshot: pristine-tar commit -s ../mugshot_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz.asc ../mugshot_0.4.1.orig.tar.gz
<JackFrost> And, thanks for looking into them!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-12
<bluesabre> JackFrost:
<bluesabre> catfish 1.4.7-1 uploaded by Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com> https://tracker.debian.org/catfish
<bluesabre> mugshot 0.4.1-1 uploaded by Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com> (Closes: #913000, #914025) https://tracker.debian.org/mugshot
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-13
<JackFrost> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/6.2#Icon_Theme
<knome> mhm.
<ochosi> JackFrost: yeah, it's pretty nice, the extended the theme i did by quite a bit
<ochosi> the initial push really paid off
<ochosi> even my app and mimetype icons survived :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-14
<bluesabre> !team, 18.04.2 images need testing for a release later today... if you can take an iso for a spin, that'd be appreciated! (link below)
<ubottu> bluesabre: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bluesabre> !team | 18.04.2 images need testing for a release later today... if you can take an iso for a spin, that'd be appreciated! (link below)
<ubottu> 18.04.2 images need testing for a release later today... if you can take an iso for a spin, that'd be appreciated! (link below): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/399/builds
<JackFrost> Duuude, it's 4am..
<bluesabre> Yeahhhhhhh
<knome> meh, today is probably the worst day in a long time
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> Going to try to knock some out before work
<tracker7> hello
<bluesabre> Is anybody available to pick up some 32bit tests? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/399/builds
<ochosi> unfortunately not :(
<Spass> bluesabre, how much time left to test? I can do some quick tests now
<bluesabre> Spass: not sure, but it looks like we're not the last ones
<Spass> I'm downloading the ISO, but it's very slow, I'll try to do 2 or 3 quick testcases before sleep
<bluesabre> Spass: much appreciated
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-15
<Spass> ok, done some, but I didn't have time for much, sorry
<pleia2> bluesabre: good testing tweet! feel free to nudge for a retweet (baby care means I'm distant, but so still see irc pings, eventually :))
 * pleia2 rt on @xubuntu just now anyway
<JackFrost> pleia2: IIRC, I was supposed to poke you in two weeks about dev.xubuntu.org upgrade?
<JackFrost> (There's a slight chance my 'two week timer' is off by...a few weeks.)
<pleia2> JackFrost: haha, I barely know what month it is ;) yah I should sync up with knome and get that done
<pleia2> kiddo is almost 6 weeks old now, so I do have 2 hour blocks of time where I'm not trying to nap some days ;)
<JackFrost> Urgh...That's "fun" :3
<bluesabre> Thanks for testing Spass[m], looks like we've hit the mandatory tests
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and mark us ready, I think
<bluesabre> pleia2: will do, hope things are going well for you :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add masakari-api and masakari-engine to misc-servers. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=5a71d37663c9f8e0bc7a7cde3c1306bb60b46200 (by Corey Bryant)
<knome> pleia2, <3
<bluesabre> knome, pleia2, interested in "tooting"? https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/101590984302286489
<knome> says log in
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> hmmm
<bluesabre> welp, I have no idea how to publicly view a toot... maybe that's a private one :D
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> https://ubuntu.social/@xubuntu Spass created a placeholder xubuntu one if we want it
<knome> i believe most people wish most of their toots were private
<knome> oh meh, yet another social media platform that will die
<bluesabre> anyway, just relaying ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> We might be able to turn it into a bot account that just mirrors the twitter account
<bluesabre> I can look into that
<knome> mmh
<knome> let me know if you need assistance, like stuff to be done @twitter
<Spass[m]> yeah, at this point most "official" mastodon accounts are just auto-retweeting, for example ubuntu one uses this tool - https://crossposter.masto.donte.com.br/
<Spass[m]> so maybe there's no point on doing that, but that placeholder may be useful in the future :)
<bluesabre> Spass[m]: yeah, at most I think that's what we'd do with it
<xubuntu43w> Hello! The torrent download links on this page are broken: https://xubuntu.org/download
<xubuntu43w> They point to 18.04.1, but the site only has 18.04.2
<xubuntu43w> Not sure if this is the proper place to report this.
<Spass> By the way, is there a reason Torrent links are directed to "http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/bionic/release/desktop/..." instead of "http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/..."?
<Spass> Seems like "cdimages" links are better, because links to older point releases are still active
<Spass> I shouldn't add "..." to links, so to make it clearer, here's only the absolutely newest release - http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/bionic/release/desktop/
<Spass> But here all is still there - http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/18.04/release/
<Spass> So the links would be alive
<knome> torrent links fixed
<JackFrost> Urgh, can we dump gnome-software yet? :/
<brainwash> for?
<brainwash> it's the best solution right now
<JackFrost> I'd disagree on that point, it continues to do things very poorly.
<brainwash> there are some corner cases, yes
<JackFrost> More than a couple.
<brainwash> but overall it works fine
<brainwash> you want to promote finding and install packages/snaps via the cli?
<brainwash> :)
<JackFrost> As for GUI, Synaptic seems to be the most functional, sadly.
<brainwash> that one could be added as a bonus maybe
<brainwash> the xubuntu iso is pretty oversized anyway :D
<JackFrost> Hah. :D
<JackFrost> There are now 10 of those emails pending.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: related to this! Is gdebi going away... it does seem to be currently broken.
<bluesabre> JackFrost: and yeah, will probably kick the size limit if I have access, or will ping some folks
<JackFrost> bluesabre: I've heard nothing, but it's been nmu'd twice and is very poorly maintained.
<bluesabre> in my recent usage, synaptic has shown itself to be pretty darn zippy (very different from g-s)
<JackFrost> brainwash did point out that it doesn't do snaps, if one cares about that (I don't.)
<bluesabre> It's zippy, not snappy ;)
<JackFrost> Debian #915298, so I'd say gdebi is soon to disappear.
<ubottu> Debian bug 915298 in src:gdebi "gdebi FTBFS with pyflakes 2.0.0-1" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/915298
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Hah, yeah.  Also better at finding things, since it doesn't solely rely on appstream.
<bluesabre> are there other .deb frontends?
<JackFrost> Moun! :P
<JackFrost> I'm not aware of anything, but I don't tend to use graphical package management either.  Synaptic has a few things that I can't get from 'apt' directly, though.
<bluesabre> Does synaptic have anything for installing downloaded .deb files? (the gdebi use case)
<Spass> what about Eddy from elementary for .deb files? does elementary apps have many unwanted dependencies? https://appcenter.elementary.io/com.github.donadigo.eddy/
<JackFrost> I don't see it in the archive, though I do see 'xteddy'
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Not that I'm aware of.
<Spass> also, I stumbled upon AppHive, but I doubt it's better than GNOME Software - https://github.com/nick92/apphive
<Spass> yeah, Eddy is elementary "exclusive" unfortunately :/
<JackFrost> Fork of Elementary's appcenter.
<JackFrost> Bummer, no wnpp.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-17
<DarkTrick> Hello
<knome> hello
<DarkTrick> Is this the only channel for xubuntu?
<knome> no
<DarkTrick> I want to propose the usage of a new window theme.
<DarkTrick> Is there a preferred place to go?
<knome> this is the preferred place in IRC
<DarkTrick> Thank you.
<DarkTrick> I created a thread on xfce.org, that contains all information (the "why"), pictures and the themes. I would be glad, if someone could take the time to take a quick look at it
<DarkTrick> https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=51762
<knome> DarkTrick, there has been talks about adding an "accessibility" theme for greybird that would tackle the window border issues
<knome> DarkTrick, i feel like this is close to what you are suggesting for the default theme
<DarkTrick> knome, yes it sounds like that.
<DarkTrick> knome, although a second point is the size of buttons.
<knome> that said, it hasn't been worked on for a while because real life and priorities 
<knome> sure, those would likely also be bigger in an "accessibility" theme
<DarkTrick> "hasn't been worked on" means "not yet started"?
<knome> in quotes, because it wouldn't really only be geared towards those that have specific accessibility needs
<knome> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/xfwm4-a11y
<knome> this has been discussed for literally years, but again, nobody has had the time to do it
<knome> every once in a while we get users mentioning the borders are too thin
<knome> how we'd really like this problem to be solved is to allow a bigger area to be dragged from but keeping the visuals we have now
<DarkTrick> Same here. 
<knome> ...but that's not possible with the current software and the solution is much harder than creating a workaround theme
<DarkTrick> I guessed the programming takes more time than a theme.
<knome> and also means a specific component (xfw4) needs a change, and the people who are familiar enough with that to work with it are much sparser than those who can work on a theme
<knome> all this said, if you want to work with the greybird a11y variant, all help is appreciated!
<knome> ochosi is the main author for the theme, but even github tells me the theme hasn't been tinkered with in 2 years
<knome> (that doesn't mean ochosi isn't active, it just means it's time since he has had to touch it)
<knome> the gtk3 theme part is very much in active development.
<DarkTrick> I just checked the theme. It seems like it's the usual greybird one at the moment
<knome> that's also very possible
<DarkTrick> Is it necessary to create a theme for gtk2 and the others as well?
<DarkTrick> or would xfwm4 be enough 
<knome> those are different things
<DarkTrick> enough = enough for already making it available
<knome> "just xfwm4" would suffice
<DarkTrick> ok
<knome> the gtk themes tweak other parts of the UI; pretty much everything *inside* the window borders
<DarkTrick> I will make some time to work on a11y. 
<DarkTrick> I also mentioned bigger buttons. Doing that would not look like "the good old" greybird anymore.
<DarkTrick> Would it be a better choice to introduce a completely new theme for that?
<ochosi> we do ship "greybird-accessibility" as window manager theme already
<ochosi> and a separate greybird gtk+ theme for all other widgets would be too much work (for me at least)
<ochosi> you can use adwaita if you want big buttons :)
<DarkTrick> Greybird-accessibility changes to borders only by one or two pixels.
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> plus bigger buttons
<ochosi> and more visible buttons
<DarkTrick> The ones from me have +8 / 10 pixels
<DarkTrick> I still have problems with only two pixels more
<DarkTrick> Maybe that's a personal problem, though
<ochosi> there will always be people who have problems with a few px more or less ;)
<DarkTrick> This is my suggestion
<DarkTrick> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vp7leawy1o1ner/theme2.jpeg?dl=0
<ochosi> sure, that's simply a different theme though
<DarkTrick> Maybe I'm too cocksure of myself, but I think my  proposed theme would really make window handling easier.
<DarkTrick> Btw: @knome: Thank you for your help!
<knome> DarkTrick, np
<DarkTrick> ochosi, If I get things right at the moment, the best solution would be to upload it at xfce-look.org?
<ochosi> yeah, that would be a good start
<ochosi> we can always consider another wm theme for inclusing into xfce
<ochosi> errrm, xubuntu
<knome> (:
<ochosi> however, you have to keep client-side window decorations in mind
<ochosi> so you have to alter the gtk theme as well for consistency
<ochosi> otherwise those CSD windows will look different/out of place
<DarkTrick> ochosi, "client-side window"?
<DarkTrick> If I know how to test it, I can create it.
<ochosi> you can check e.g. evince or gnome's calculator
<ochosi> for many apps, the CSD are deactivated in xubuntu
<ochosi> but not all
<DarkTrick> Why would I need to care about CSD? As far as I understand they have a fixed decoration anyway.
<DarkTrick> So themes won't apply to them.
<brainwash> bluesabre: still awaiting a comment on bug 1754872
<ubottu> bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754872
<brainwash> #27 has my solution
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-10
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<knome> how do people feel about making the website menu more like the ubuntu.com menu, where there is just "one row" and the logo is part of that row, in a smaller size than currently?
<knome> now that we will have better control over the content area, we can create those better looking sections (think: like the front page introduction) very easily (without any code update required) and make the pages themselves pop out more, i don't feel like the kind of flashy header is needed so much
<knome> in fact, i'd love to use that style in the main introduction bg and show off more of the mouse
<knome> (and get rid of the baby blue bg)
<JackFrost> knome: Honestly?  Whatever you'd like best.  The Ubuntu website isn't stupidly dumb, so I'd be good with it.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-11
<knome> *shrug* :)
<knome> it would also make stuff a looot easier and cleaner
<knome> but because there's that motivation, i don't want to do it without asking everybody else since then it might be done just because i'm lazy ;)
<sm0rux> knome: time to sleep :)
<JackFrost> knome: Is that git repo what you wanted?
<JackFrost> knome: And, it doesn't bug me, at least not that I noticed. :)
<knome> JackFrost, i'll look tomorrow, i should be in bed already ;)
<ochosi> knome: sounds nice
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.4.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-4-0-released-tp57291.html (by Graeme Gott)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-12
<albinard> Downloaded xubuntu core ISO of 02/11, wrote to USB.  Sha256sum checked ok, but no vmlinuz file in casper folder.  Puzzled.
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.4.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-4-1-released-tp57313.html (by Graeme Gott)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-15
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.4.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-4-2-released-tp57337.html (by Graeme Gott)
<JackFrost> So many whisker releases..
