#edubuntu 2005-11-21
<bnD> can someone let me know the command to upgrade my kernel from 386 to 686?
<bnD> anyone know how to turn down touchpad sensitivity or disable touchpad clicking?
<magnon> hey ogra
<ogra> hey
<ogra> magnon, did i tell you that complaints about the logo of s-c-p have to be paid by contributions ? ;)
<magnon> hehe
<deang> Is there a way to find out the default Edubuntu/Ubuntu I'm running besides the default browser page?  System~About seems to leave this out
<mhz> hi
<arkan0x> hi
<arkan0x> mhz, !
<arkan0x> mhz, ping
<mhz> arkan0x: pong
<mhz> arkan0x: como van las cosas en CDSL?
<ogra> deang, run lsb_release -a in a terminal
<mhz> ogra: hi
<ogra> hi
<mhz> do you know the topics for tomorrow's meeting?
<mhz> ogra: I installed edubuntu on a PC and it takes too long to complete booting. It gets kind of stuck after an error on 'fonts missing dir'
<mhz> PDF disabled
<mhz> if I Ctrl+C it, then it completes booting
<ogra> hit escape on boot ad edit the kernel commandline, remove the word splash from it and boot to see where its really stuck
<ogra> usplash hides a lot
<mhz> ooohhh
<mhz> you mean, edit grub?
<ogra> yes
<mhz> ogra: BTW, this is the exact pseudo-error:   /usr/share/fonts/truetype/mstcorefonts does not exist. PDF support disabled.
<mhz> checking battery state .... [ok] 
<mhz> that's what I see before CTRL +C
<ogra> hmm, probably a acpi problem
<ogra> thats a laptop ?
<ogra> i have to go to bed now, night ...
<mhz> c ya 2morrow
<ogra> check if adding noacpi or pci=noacpi helps you 
<mhz> okidoki, thx and it's no laptop
<mhz> still meeting tomorrow?
<ogra> sure
<mhz> zero killed
<mhz> :D
<mhz> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> mhz, hello how have you been?
<mhz> well, TIRED
<mhz> but fine
<mhz> and motivated
<jsgotangco> that's good
* jsgotangco has been busy at work
<mhz> too many meetings to get funds
<mhz> jsgotangco: i hope you don't have too many layer 8 or 0 (depending) endusers
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> not really
<jsgotangco> i've just been busy with my new work and preparing for a trip
<mhz> trip to a talk?
<jsgotangco> yeah
* mhz has been watching :D
<jsgotangco> well i got invited to do a talk in seoul but i have yet to secure my visa...
<mhz> ohh
* mhz is off to bed and wake up for meeting
<ihsanna> hi everyone, i'm ihsan, first time into this channel. 
<dabaR> hi
<JaneW> hi ihsanna 
<ihsanna> I've just started reading about edubuntu but not yet started anything. My wife is a secondary school teacher, hope can do something for her. 
<JaneW> ihsanna: great, I hope you/she likes it
<JaneW> what's available now is just our first release, so there are plans to improve a lot for next April's release
<JaneW> ogra is owrking hard on those additions and improvements already
<highvoltage> hi ihsanna, welcome to #edubuntu
<ihsanna> great
<ihsanna> hope i can contribute something. upss, need to go. bye.
<ihsanna> quit
<highvoltage> JaneW: from OSdir: "OSDir's got some damn sweet shots of Edubuntu 5.10 Official."
<highvoltage> do we think it's appropriate for us to link to a site where they say that?
<JaneW> highvoltage: well it is the official osdir edubuntu page...
<JaneW> and this URL is a little long http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=471&slide=4&title=edubuntu+5.10+official+screenshots
<JaneW> but use this one if you think it's more appropriate ^
<highvoltage> JaneW: i don't really mind, but there are many difficult people.
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok use the long one, I was going to suggest that first and then thought it was really long and strange, but maybe link it with a few words instead of showing the URL, that will solve the problem easilly
<highvoltage> ok
<JaneW> thanks :)
<dabaR> how about that tinyurl thing?
<JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut JaneW 
<chang-xi> Are there technical questions permitted here?
<Burgundavia> chang-xi, yes
<chang-xi> Ok- I have edubuntu server & 1-client machine for test. When loading a cd/dvd in the server (logged in as a user) it also shows up in the client &, I cannot eject the cd unless the client closes the window & ejects it.
<Victorjiang>  what is the difference between ubuntu,kubuntu and edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> Victorjiang, Ubuntu is gnome based, kubuntu is kde based
<Burgundavia> edubuntu is a version of ubuntu for schools
<Burgundavia> the default DE for edubuntu is gnome
<Victorjiang>  what is the difference between ubuntu and edubuntu?In edubuntu more software about school are installed?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> edubuntu also comes with ltsp and the configuration for making it easy to use LTSP in a school environment
<Victorjiang> Burgundavia:thanks!
<DeeJay1> hello
<DeeJay1> I have a small question - where can I set the default desktop wallpaper for all users in edubuntu?
<mhz> hi all
* mhz yaaaaaaawwwwn
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 hour.
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> hi JaneW
<JaneW> hi mhz
<mhz> family ok?
<mhz> baking good?
<mhz> JaneW: I did 'apply' for edubuntu CD shipping but I never got an official 'no' answer
* mhz making breakfast
* JaneW is still trying to catvh up after ubz
<JaneW> catch I mean
<JaneW> there is SO much to do
<JaneW> mhz_cooking: I will update that page soon, we will continue to gather info for when we do have CDs (in 5-6 months)
* JaneW has already made a cake on Sat... (for my son's birthday)... I was tired and it's didn't come out perfect...http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/63548379/
<Katsumoto> Does any1 know how to recover Unallocated disk space?
<Katsumoto> I use Partition Magic Pro 8.0 and tried to 'undelete' it...but that didn't help much.
<Katsumoto> any1 know of a programm that can repair hdd's that way?
<mhz_cooking> hhhhmmm, Katsumoto 
<mhz_cooking> sorry, never been there yet
<Katsumoto> me neither
<mhz_cooking> did you google?
<mhz_cooking> did you also visit #ubuntu
<Katsumoto> not yet I'm trying a format first
<Katsumoto> maybe that'll help
<Katsumoto> now I did :p
<mhz_cooking> one thing for sure, Yagisan may know but he's not here yet
<mhz_cooking> (time zone issue :D )
<Katsumoto> yes exactly
<Katsumoto> I'm in GMT+1 so
<Katsumoto> heh
<mhz_shower> heheh
<Katsumoto> enjoy :)
<mhz_shower> thx
<mhz_shower> brb for meeeting
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 4 minutes
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
<juliux> mhz, i have talked with slibs yesterday about conferenc pack, she said if you didn't get any response send a mail to her
<mhz> juliux: thx!
<mhz> do you have slibs email?
<juliux> mom
<juliux> mhz, jane.silber@ubuntu.com
<mhz> juliux: oh! jane silber
<mhz> thx
<juliux> mhz, i have said here there i didn't get any repsonse and so she said e-mail me i will it to me
<juliux> ogra, i have arrange a ubuntu both on the cebit 
<juliux> ogra, do you want to do a talk about edubuntu?
<ogra> juliux, i'm not sure if i want to go to cebit (i grew up in hannover)
<ogra> i'll notify you ...
<ogra> they are having opportunitys to talk there this time ? 
<JaneW> Jane Silber can also be reached at jane@ubuntu.com, which is why I am always known as Jane*W*
<mhz> ooooohhh, thx JaneW
<Katsumoto> Yay, I'm installing Edubuntu :)
<mhz> Katsumoto: welcome!!!
<Katsumoto> :D
<mhz> you have chosen the good pill
<mhz> :D
<Katsumoto> haha nice1 ;)
<Katsumoto> I completely formatted the other pc I have.
<Katsumoto> first I tried 2 diff windows cd's...nothing happened, didn't even boot up
<Katsumoto> I was like: oh what the heck, *inserts ubuntu cd* and it boots
<Katsumoto> amazing :p
<mhz> hehehe, see?
<Katsumoto> I was told you can configure your network settings with Samba right?
<mhz> hmm, samba is for 'making MS talk to Linux'
<Katsumoto> yes that's what I need..
<Katsumoto> since the linux pc will be connected through the MS pc
<mhz> Linux already talks to many OSes. It's MS that doesnt
<Katsumoto> indeed :P
<mhz> Network settings are set from GNOME desktop (in this case)
<ogra> Katsumoto, "through" or to the MS pc ? these are different things ...
<Katsumoto> the pc I'm one uses MS
<Katsumoto> it's the host pc for the other one I have downstairs
<ogra> "to" means you need samba, "through" means you just need to enable connection forwarding on windows and tell your linux to use it as gateway
<Katsumoto> Gateway(router/modem) <----------- Host PC (this one, uses MS) <--------------- 2nd PC (linux)
<Katsumoto> <-- resembles network cables :P
<Katsumoto> mhz: on this pc (MS) I have a shared connection so that the one downstairs can use it as well..
<ogra> the you just need to tell the linux pc to use the windows pc as gateway (in the network settings tool)
<mhz> Katsumoto: yup, Linux is like anyother box in that case
<mhz> (just betta)
<Katsumoto> ohke :) cool
<Katsumoto> My dad's wondering if he'll be able to work with it well enough.
<Katsumoto> he's not much of a computer person :p
<mhz> np
<mhz> he will enjoy as long as he understand this is NOT M$. it another OS
<Katsumoto> that I told him...he was glad the cd booted and he'll be able to email/write/browse again :)
<mhz> cool
<mhz> remember that Linux is the base and desktops may vary in many senses
<mhz> and performance is relational to hardware
<Katsumoto> yeh I'm aware of that :)
<Katsumoto> will make things less boring and more fun to solve :P
<mhz> so if you hardware is modern, GNOME or KDE can be very attractive
<mhz> if as in my case, my thin laptop prefers WindowMaker
<Katsumoto> :)
<juliux> ogra_, ping
<ogra_> juliux, pong
<juliux> ogra, do you have a moment for me?
<ogra> sure, whats up ?
<juliux> ogra, query?
<juliux> ogra, about essen
<ogra> if its necessary
<ogra> i prefer to talk in public since the channel is logged ...
<juliux> my english is to bad
<juliux> ok i will try it
<mhz> ogra: any chances to add the wiki and irc contributions to Karma (LP)?
<mhz> :D
<mhz> my karma is 10
<ogra> mhz, ask #launchpad ? 
<mhz> at it should be at least 11
<mhz> okidoki
<juliux> ogra, about the workshop
<juliux> ogra, could you make a short introduction about edubuntu and the idea behin it?
<ogra> sure
<mhz> juliux: I have no problems you talk in german
<juliux> mhz, i have to learn to speak in englisch
<mhz> I'm sure ogra can answer in english
<juliux> ogra, my idea is that we start the installation and if there is only the progressbar you can tell them something about edubuntu and then if the installation is finshed we show what we talked about, and anserd questions
<juliux> ogra, what do you think about that?
<mhz> juliux: just for statistics, In a talk I did, Edubuntu took 20 minutes to be installed in a 1 GHz and 128 MB ram
<ogra> thats fine 
<ogra> mhz, a default install ? 
<ogra> that cant be ...
<mhz> yup
<juliux> mhz,  we have 90min time
<ogra> the install takes more than 1h on all my machines here
<juliux> ogra, i will test it in the next weeks
<mhz> oh, I mean 20 mins after partitioning and stuff. 20 mins available while 'auto-installation- is working
<ogra> ~30min in first stage of the installer and a bit more than 30 in the second stage
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> weired
<mhz> unless the student who timed it was wrong
<juliux> ogra, but i want show them every step in the installation progess so they see how easy it is to install edubuntu
<ogra> juliux, i have a thin client (a real one) now ... i can bring it, together with my development server (running on my laptop) so we can show upcoming stuff
<ogra> there are only 5 steps ... 4 of them identical to ubuntu
<ogra> the rest is progressbars
<mhz> ogra: I'll time it myself so I can tell true facts
<mhz> :)
<ogra> :)
<mhz> and maybe we could wiki those timings as well
<Katsumoto> lol mhz
<mhz> specifying hw
<Katsumoto> it's very easy to work with
<mhz> Katsumoto: did you time it?
<Katsumoto> configuring email accounts in evolution mail atm :)
<Katsumoto> looks like mozilla thunderbird :)
<Katsumoto> which I'm using
<highvoltage> or we could get scott to make an 'installerchart' for d-i :)
<mhz> highvoltage: hehehe
<juliux> ogra, very cool
<juliux> ogra, i will bring my laptop to essen where we can install edubuntu
<ogra> fine :)=
<juliux> ogra, we will also have a extra edubuntu server on the both, where we show edubuntu and ubuntu
* mhz has no clue how to deal with EdubuntuAutomaticLoadBalancing
<mhz> juliux: I am using a 'thin' Fujitsu LifeBook B-2175 as edubuntu main demo (server)
<mhz> with only 256 MB and 500 MHz (500 me's ??)
<mhz> and so far, 1 other laptop booting from this lifebook works ok
<mhz> though not very fast
<juliux> mhz, i have an extra server for fairs, its my old desktop pc
<mhz> old? how old?
<juliux> mhz, it is a amd athlon XP 2400+
<juliux> mhz, with 786MB ram
<mhz> hhehehehehe
<mhz> that old??
<ogra> thats not much ...
<juliux> mhz, and a very very quiet hd
<ogra> 768 Mb will give us not more than 5 clients ...
<juliux> ogra, if i have money i want to buy more ram
<mhz> old here is OLD = 700 MHz or less, 192 MB or less
<mhz> and noisy HD
<juliux> mhz, hehe
<mhz> juliux: your old is modern here
<juliux> mhz, i knoe
<juliux> know
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> I hope you could wiki those specs and some uses or performance
<juliux> mhz, but i have a new notebook and i only work on the notebook
<mhz> esp. after becoming edubuntu server
* mhz loves laptops much more than deskptops
<mhz> desktops are for compiling and rendering
<mhz> laptops are for coding and generating wrok bases
<mhz> work
<ogra> mhz, i'll get a lab for testing such stuff (mem usage etc) soon...
<mhz> wow!!! cool!
<juliux> ogra, cool
<mhz> we'll have more arguments for evangelising
<ogra> yay JaneW is back
<mhz> she was buying materials for baking
<ogra> heh
<juliux> ogra, you know that we have founded the ubuntu german club last saturday ?
<ogra> i read the ubuntu-de ML ;)
<JaneW> ogra: hi..
<juliux> ogra, there was a mail about it?
* JaneW mutters about the power failures in the western cape atm...
<ogra> juliux, yup
<ogra> this morning
<juliux> ogra, ok
<ogra> JaneW, so you missed flint
<juliux> ogra, a there was some on faster than i
<JaneW> ogra: damn! ;P
<JaneW> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1132148532744B216
<ogra> JaneW, move to bellville then ;)
<JaneW> ogra: that's where TSF offices are, I should have gone in again today... 
<JaneW> but then the wi-fi drops every 15 mins or so...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> you should get powerline connections there :)
<mhz> JaneW: I am in #launchpad suggesting to include evangelising, IRC and wiki contributions to count for Karma
<mhz> :)
<JaneW> mhz: good for you ;)
<mhz> no one answered yet
<mhz> :D
<Katsumoto> for real, its too easy to work with...
<mhz> Katsumoto: ?
<Katsumoto> it even auto detected my home network
<mhz> LOL
<Katsumoto> have access to it etc
<mhz> I told you
<mhz> we told ou
<mhz> you
<Katsumoto> can exchange files
<Katsumoto> lol
<mhz> it is the other way around that DOES not want to work (M$ to others)
<Katsumoto> too bad I'm running on this pc...otherwise I'd have installed it on this one as well.
<Katsumoto> exactly
<Katsumoto> running games*
<mhz> games are an issue here 'coz, AFAIK, all companies are in favour of propietary SW
<mhz> unless they are edu games
<mhz> nah! even edu games!
<Katsumoto> yeh ok.
* Katsumoto is stunned
<mhz> I have seen such perfect ideal edu games on M$ and Mac
<Katsumoto> it even has XChat preinstalled
<mhz> yup
<mhz> no need to suffer :D
<Katsumoto> ok lets see if I can connect :)
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> JaneW: did this just happened?? and it on the web now?? http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1132148532744B216
<mhz> simply amazing
<mhz> we need to be that effective here in Latinamerica
<JaneW> mhz: yep... it happened on Friday to, but much worse, so the article was mostly written already from then ;)
<mhz> LOL
<JaneW> http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20051112130347468C734591
<mhz> yet, still fast
<JaneW> yes, the article was published at 03:43PM
<JaneW> the power failure happened at about 2:50 or so, or whatever time I vanished ;)
<JaneW> mhz: the speed of info on the internet is incredible
<mhz> if I ever get to CapeTown, I'll do 3 things: I'll cook empanadas (typical chilean food), I'll see highvoltage car, and I'll take pictures with you guys
<mhz> indeed
<JaneW> mhz: not unless we get to chile first ;)
<zakame> mhz: empanadas!
<mhz> JaneW: please!!! That will rock for our evangelising purposes and show people around we'are serious about the edubuntu domination here :)
<mhz> zakame: you know empanadas?
<zakame> mhz: of course, we make those here too :)
<mhz> JaneW: please convince Mark to send one of you guys down here (or up here?)
<mhz> zakame: here? where?
<zakame> mhz: in .ph :) although some variations require baking instead of frying
<mhz> yup
<mhz> we use them both
<mhz> fried for cheese ones, baked for meat ones
<mhz> and even (the best ones) in mud ovens
<mhz> yuuummmmmiieee
<zakame> hehe, yeah, empanadas rock, they once even became our source of income :)
<mhz> zakame:  but you use 'empanadas' in .ph?
<zakame> mhz: we eat them ;)
<mhz> LOL
<Katsu> :D
<mhz> zakame: you made me pour some coffee near the laptop!
<Katsu> works 
<mhz> Katsu: educool!
<zakame> good to know though, I guess I won't be getting lost in chile, gastronomically speaking :)
<Katsu> everything works just fine atm :)
<mhz> Katsu: you've become another dominated GnuLinux user :D
<Katsu> lol
<Katsu> I'm glad I joined :d
<zakame> Katsu: welcome! :D
<mhz> Katsu: you are gonna be sued by M$ now as part of the worldwide virus 
<Katsu> I recently discovered that yes :P
<mhz> Katsu: of course, now you'll pay the price of freedom.
<mhz> freedom is never easy nor free
<Katsu> luckily there are ppl who invest in free OSes
<Katsu> 'invest' as in put effort in it to make one
<Katsu> ok I'm logging off from this pc
<mhz> Katsu: when you edit your /apt/source.list and try Synaptic... you'll see how powerful community wokr is
<Katsu> oke I'll try that
<Katsu> bbl
<mhz> c ya
<mhz> ogra: hmmm, should StudyPackages be in a diff apt source?
<Katsumoto> oke off to buy some new hardware :)
<Katsumoto> cya
<ogra> as i saoid yesterday, if it doesnt get to big, we can keep it in the normal archive
<mhz> ogra: oh, indeed. I forgot
<mhz> sorry
<ogra> if it becomes gigabytes of content, we should think about sparation ;)
<mhz> separation sounds dangerous to me
<mhz> WOW!!!!
<mhz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/RedirectingExternalLinks
<mhz> ogra: is this the name you mean or LtspParams ? EdubuntuLtsParams
<ogra> the parameters of the lts.conf file
<ogra> so LtsParams should be the right name
<mhz> why Lts?
<ogra> probably make it LtsConfParams 
<ogra> the file is called likje that
<ogra> its historical
<mhz> duh!!!
<mhz> ok
<mhz> so can I avoid confusion and redirect it to LtsConfParams?
<mhz> (both pages will exist so subscribed users get notifications) (i guess)
<ogra> sure
<mhz> ogra: what do you think?
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList
<mhz> redirected from SwList
<ogra> cool
<mhz> maybe normal TableOfContents will look betta?
<ogra> nope, looks very cool
<mhz> This 'tweak' is good for over 3 levels of TOC
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> using edubuntu theme?
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> hiya folks
<ogra> hey jsgotangco 
<mhz> hi jsgotangco 
<mhz> ogra: ok, you should get email notification after redirecting
<mhz> please let me know if you dont
<jsgotangco> hey ogra, mhz how's it going?
<mhz_cooking> hehehe
<jsgotangco> sorry i wasnt able to attend the meeting at all
<mhz_cooking> so far, so cool
<ogra> jsgotangco, fine, thanks ... you were missed at ubz :)
<mhz_cooking> we missed ya
* mhz_cooking bbl
<jsgotangco> i'll make sure i attend the next conference
* jsgotangco is going to seoul next month
<zakame> what's in seoul again?
<jsgotangco> ogra: are we open for main inclusion reports already? (i assume yes)
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, but the selection wont change much
<ogra> dapper is the conservative "polish only" release
<ogra> so moodle and one to three desktop apps will be all...
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> did you see highvoltage's chalk theme?
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork will change heavily and ltsp will get a lot of improvement
<jsgotangco> zakame: software insight conference 2005, see ConferenceAppearances
<zakame> jsgotangco: oh
<jsgotangco> so we're getting professional artwork now?
<jsgotangco> zakame: pretty big foss conference by the gov't
<zakame> jsgotangco: wow, that's big indeed
<jsgotangco> ogra: since were doing a polish release then its safe for me to continue the cookbook?
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> zakame: xandros will be there too
<jsgotangco> ogra: cool..i got a box ready atm i can test the apps finally
<ogra> cool
<mhz_cooking> JaneW: i did email jane.silber 1 hr or so ago
<zakame> jsgotangco: that's good
<mhz_cooking> about conf. pack
<mhz_cooking> re
<juliux> wb mhz 
<mhz> you too
<mhz> :)
<mhz> juliux: what do you do on daily basis?
<juliux> mhz, i am study 
<juliux> mhz, at technical university in dresden
<mhz> oh
<mhz> geek
<mhz> :)
<mhz> why interested in edubuntu, juliux ?
<juliux> mhz, i interested in gnome and so in ubuntu
<juliux> an 2 days befor breezy \sh_away ask in the german channel who has a ppc and can test the breezy dvd image
<juliux> and so i try to download the ppc image
<mhz> ok, but any specific edubuntu interests?
<juliux> so long until ogra said there is no ppc image, and then i testet edubuntu and i find it cool
<mhz> ppc rocks! it's a pity Apple will no longer use them
<mhz> hahaha
<juliux> because it is so simple to install a running ltsp
<mhz> indeed
<juliux> and i find that the idea behind ebuntu is cool
<juliux> and so i decide to suppport edubuntu on fairs
<juliux> in germany
<mhz> juliux: thx for that help
<juliux> mhz, what do you do on daily basis?
<mhz> we need much
<juliux> mhz, no problem
<juliux> mhz, and ogra and \sh_away want that i develop something for edubuntu but i don't know what and when
<mhz> juliux: I am 'unemployed'. As i do not want to work for stuff I do not like or share ideas with, I decided to spend my savings (turning to zero pretty soon, about 1 month) on stuff I do believe in: Free access to Knowledge and Technology.
<juliux> ah cool
<mhz> juliux: but the volunteering has some huge CONS if you have family. My wife is telling me: where's the money in Free as in Freedom :D
<juliux> mhz, i know that
<mhz> so some months ago, I started to motivate a small group of friends to work together on www.tecnocimiento.cl
<jsgotangco> good night =)
<mhz> c ya
<juliux> mhz, my girlfriend everytime tell me that she want to have time with me
<mhz> hehehe, that too
<juliux> mhz, i do too match for gnome and ubuntu in germany
<mhz> excellent
<mhz> there's a GNOME devel community here
<juliux> mhz, at the moment i am on the linuxworldexpo in frankfurt and make a gnome/ubuntu both
<mhz> wow! sounds cool to have so much happening there
<juliux> mhz, hm
<mhz> highvoltage: nice to see ya
<highvoltage> mhz: hi mhz
<ryanbisd> howdy guys...
<ryanbisd> is there an easy way to have edubuntu authenticate the logins thru ad?
* mhz needs to go offline a while.
<mhz> highvoltage: yo uknow jane.silber?
<highvoltage> i've met her onse, but I don't know her well.
<mhz> ok
<mhz> ryanbisd: ad?
<ryanbisd> active directory
<mhz> ahhh
<mhz> don't know. I do know that we use SSH for logins
* mhz has never used M$ and its products in the las 6 years or so
<ryanbisd> well... I work for a school district
<ryanbisd> and we use ad
<ryanbisd> im setting up edubuntu to use as a terminal server.
<ryanbisd> all the students have their own logins
<ryanbisd> thru ad
<ryanbisd> all I want on it, is to use Icewm.. and firefox
<ryanbisd> thats it
<Katsu> hello
<Katsu> I'm trying to install the linux version of Java runtime env.
<Katsu> it's a self extracting file it says
<ogra_> take the one from multiverse, unless you urgently need the newest ...
<Katsu> no I just want it to work properly :)
<ogra_> it comes preconfigured for the firefox plugin etc ... no need to fiddle with it
<ogra_> then thats the way to go... its tested and all config stuff is already done in the package
<mhz> Katsu: which java runtime are you trying?
<Katsu> hmm it said I had to manually dl the java runtime app. in order to display certain things
<Katsu> Java Runtime Environment Version 5.0 Update 5
<Katsu> that one.
<ogra_> the package from multiverse is way easier ...
<neurogeek> mhz, ping
<neurogeek> jeje
<ogra_> you dont have to modify files in etc, move parts around to get the plugin working etc
<neurogeek> mhz, how are you doing??
<mhz> neurogeek: pong
<mhz> neurogeek: tired but still motivated
<Katsu> hmm ogra, could you give me a link to the muliverse one
<mhz> neurogeek: you?
<Katsu> Can't really find it I guess...or I just overlooked something
<neurogeek> mhz, great, tired as well, but everything in order
<mhz> ogra_: mayb he means the name of the package to be apt-getted or gotten? :D
<neurogeek> mhz, check your email.. strusberg should have sent you an email about the event at Maracaibo
<mhz> neurogeek: in order? really? I thought geeks had little order :)
<mhz> cool
* mhz checking
<ogra_> j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin
<neurogeek> mhz, jeje.. well things are going well.. jeje
<ogra_> that pulls in all needed components
<Katsu> ok thnx :)
<ryanbisd> how do i install xdmcp?
<ogra_> we dont use xdmcp on ubuntu.... 
<highvoltage> ryanbisd: are you sure you want xdmcp? edubuntu doesn't use it.
<ryanbisd> for ltsp?
<ogra_> we use ssh tunneling
<ogra_> indeed if you like the old insecure way, you can use xdmcp with gdm ... needs some tweakage though
<highvoltage> ogra_: what's the best way to connect from an existing fat client system to an edubuntu server through ssh tunneling?
<ogra_> highvoltage, probably a script ...
<ogra_> have a look at ldm ...
<highvoltage> aah.
<highvoltage> ok.
<ogra_> the connection routines from there can easily be adapted
<ryanbisd> is it setup automatically in edubuntu?  to work with ltsp?
<ogra_> i'll put our ltsp in bzr this week, so you can easily check out the branch from there
<ogra_> ryanbisd, yup
<ogra_> nearly 100% automatic
<ogra_> see: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra_> installing edubuntu is mainly answering 5 questions, waiting ~1h and adjust /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf (if needed) and youre done
<highvoltage> ogra_: how's bzr like, you like it?
<ogra_> yes
<highvoltage> /nick ogra :)
<ogra> :-P
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> have a trxy with bzr .... it has a real cool gui vizualization of the branches and merges of a tre
<ogra> e
<ogra> it finally made me understand the process :) and its way easier to use than bazaar
<highvoltage> nice, i'll play with it this weekend when i have internet at home again. atm i'm connected with gprs where it costs me +/- US$0.50/MB
<highvoltage> cool, i want better understanding too.
<highvoltage> even the merges confused me.
<ogra> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ./
<ogra> ^^^ dapper package
<ogra> install bzr and bzrk 
* highvoltage copies and pastes that into text editor
<ogra> highvoltage, then try: bzr viz http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<Katsu> ogra: is it possible to play .avi files?
<Katsu> if so, I need plugins for it...where can I find those?
* Katsu apologizes for his noobness :p
<ogra> out of the box there are only free codecs installed ...
<mhz> Katsu: try mplayer (afaik)
<ogra> you find all the nonfree stuff in multiverse ... look for gstreamer-plugins
<ogra> or even install the totem-xine backend ...
<ogra> or mplayer as mhz said
<Katsu> it uses Totem player as a default
<ogra> yes
<ogra> so totem-xine does only change the backend and you dont need a gazillion plugins :)
<ogra> totem default needs all the gstreamer backends
<mhz> neurogeek: wow! the email got listed with date Nov 7th
<mhz> so either I missed it or he has a little issue with 'date'
<mhz> neurogeek: Ricardo asks me to cover the air tickets Chile-Venezuela. He can take care of 'me' from there.
<mhz> neurogeek: *sigh*
<mhz> neurogeek: believe me, I am so willing to be there. Esp. for the Instituto Latinoamericano de Tecnologias Libres
<Katsu> hmm where can I get this totem-xine
<ogra> universe 
<mhz> apt-get install totem-xine
<ogra> just use synaptic and enable all the additional repositorys
<ogra> then search for it
<mhz> well, that too
<mhz> :)
<ogra> doubleclick and click apply
<mhz> click-click
<Katsu> hmm do I need to be logged into root?
<ogra> there is no root :)
<ogra> we use sudo all over the place ... 
<Katsu> E: Kon het vergrendelingsbestand '/var/lib/apt/lists/lock' niet openen - open (13 Permission denied)
<ogra> so in the gui, if a password dialog pops up, just give your password
<Katsu> yes
<ogra> and in terminal put sudo in front 
* mhz is offline for a while
<Katsu> sudo apt-get install totem-xine
<Katsu> asks for a pass
<Katsu> but I can't enter anything
<ogra> you just dont see anything ;)
<Katsu> ah.
<ogra> enter your pw and hit enter 
<ogra> thats why i normally not refer to commandline in support :)
<Katsu> hmm is says it' either can't find the totem-xine application or it's just not there.
<Katsu> libtotem-plparser0 should be an option it says
<ogra> do you have universe enabled ? 
<Katsu> dont know where to see that.
<Katsu> *noob*
<ogra> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ breezy universe multiverse
<ogra> ^^^ this line should be in /etc/apt/sources.list without a # sign in front
<ogra> alternatively use synaptic
<ogra> System->Settings->Synaptic
<ogra> open Settings->Package sources from the menu
<ogra> and add the missing ones ...
<Katsu> right I searched for totem-xine...I found it..it says it's installed
<Katsu> when I click Package I dont have an option to upgrade it..
<ogra> it has agreen square in front ? 
<Katsu> yes it has
<ogra> hmm, and you cant play avi files ? 
<Katsu> nope
<ogra> hmm, works here
<ogra> are you sure its avi, not wma or something ? 
<Katsu> I want to play LotR, whe I double click it, it starts up totem player but after that it says that  there were no decoders found to handle the stream
<ogra> the evil codecs are in the w32codecs package we cant ship
<Katsu> you might need to install the corresponding plugins."
<Katsu> ah
<ogra> totem-xine shouldnt say such things ...
<ogra> but try to install w32codecs
<Katsu> which can be found in the synaptic package manager?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it is highly illegal, we cant ship it
<ogra> ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/pool/main/w/w32codecs/w32codecs_20050412-0.0_i386.deb
<Katsu> ah.
<ogra> try downloading this and install it with: sudo dpkg -i w32codecs_20050412-0.0_i386.deb
<Katsu> oke
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats for more information
<Katsu> I'll try
<Katsu> should the file be in any specific folder to be installed?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but in the folder you cureently are, else you need to give the path where its located in front of the filename
<Katsu> it's in My Downloads
<ogra> so go there in a terminal and issue the above command
<Katsu> ah the file was downloaded into File System > tmp
<ogra> then cd /tmp in your terminal
<Katsu> how would that command be: sudo dpkg -i /tmp w32codecs_20050412-0.0_i386.deb?
<Katsu> ohk
<paolob> Guys, what about migrating to edubuntu from testing now?
<Katsu> ok its installed
<Katsu> still gives that same error.
<Katsu> weird.
<ogra> paolob, `
<ogra> sudo dpkg -i /tmp/w32codecs_20050412-0.0_i386.deb
<ogra> paolob, err that should be a ?
<ogra> paolob, you want to migrate from etch to edubuntu ? 
<ogra> (edubuntu breezy to be precise)
<Katsu> sry ogra, but I have very little knowledge about linux.
<Katsu> I have dl-ed nvidia display drivers for linux. it's in my /home/<name> dir
<ogra> noo
<Katsu> what would the command line be to install it?
<ogra> we have a package ;)
<Katsu> ooh
<Katsu> oke
<Katsu> lol
<ogra> make sure linux-restricted-modules is installed
<ogra> additionally install nvidia-glx for the non module stuff
<Katsu> I have that installed yes: 3 appz, all have a green mark
<Katsu> ah installing :)
<Katsu> thanks again :P
<ogra> put a line reading nvidia in /etc/modules
<ogra> and change "nv" to "nvidia" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ogra> then reboot and you should see the nvidia logo
<Katsu> so I installed nvidia-glx
<Katsu> Section "Device"
<Katsu> 	Identifier	"NVIDIA Corporation NV5M64 [RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro] "
<Katsu> 	Driver		"nv"
<Katsu> 	BusID		"PCI:1:0:0"
<Katsu> that's what it says
<ogra> change nv to nvidia
<ogra> and make sure the modulename nvidia is in /etc/modules
<Katsu> oke, wasn't sure if that was what u meant :)
<Katsu> hm opened xorg.conf with gedit
<Katsu> can't seem to add/remove words
<ogra> did you use sudo ?
<Katsu> done
<Katsu> I don't have an /etc/modules dir
<neurogeek> mhz, hello!!
<mhz> re
<neurogeek> mhz, so.. what do you think of the proposal for Maracaibo?
<mhz> I love it
<mhz> it's just that I have no funds I can use for the travel
<mhz> (so far)
<neurogeek> mhz, I hope you can go 
<mhz> every single cent we have collected among some volunteers is being saved for the Edubuntu Chilean Tour
<mhz> neurogeek: I know I must be there
<mhz> I know it is the time
<mhz> we are in timeline that we need to push harder
<mhz> LA is getting too much influence from propiatary technology fans and patents guys 
<Katsumoto> hmm
<neurogeek> mhz, yes.. and strusberg has some plans for education, it would be really nice we could get together and talk about some projects
<Katsumoto> apparently the graphical X server won't work
<Katsumoto> now ubuntu won't reboot properly anymore
<mhz> neurogeek: that's my point
<Katsumoto> I can login with my name+pass
<mhz> neurogeek: I asked strusberg for a more formal email I can paste and forward to Emabajador de Venezuela en Chile, just in case they have some funds for this
<mhz> neurogeek: I asked him to describe why it is important for us to be together
<mhz> Katsumoto: but?
<neurogeek> mhz, No prob. He is giving a class right now, he'll be reading that email in no time
<mhz> cool
<mhz> I'd like to pay the embassy a visit tomorrow
<Katsumoto> I tried to re-edit the file again: cd gedit /etc/x11/xorg.conf
<ogra> Katsumoto, thats a file, not a dir
<ogra> (the /etc/modules)
<neurogeek> Katsumoto, i think you meant sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Katsumoto> yes, so any clue how I can fix it?
<Katsumoto> yes thats what I meant
<ogra> gedit wont work without gui#
<ogra> use nano
<Katsumoto> ok
<neurogeek> Katsumoto, sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ogra> but: sudo modprobe nvidia && /etc/init.d/gdm restart 
<ogra> should do it too
<ogra> the module isnt loaded
<ogra> oh, there is a sudo missing
<ogra> but: sudo modprobe nvidia && sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart 
<ogra> will work
<highvoltage> goodnight ogra (and other edubunteros)
<ogra> night highvoltage 
<Katsumoto> heh, with that cmd line it says: there is no such device
<ogra> lsmod |grep nvidia 
<ogra> does that give any output ?
<Katsumoto> lets see
<mhz> oh, maybe not nvidia?
<ogra> hmm, riva tnt2 ... thats very old...
<mhz> how about dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg   ?
<ogra> wont help with the module
<Katsumoto> yeh riva tnt2 is very old :P
<Katsumoto> 32mb
<ogra> the x config is fine already
<Katsumoto> and no lsmod doesn't give anything.
<Katsumoto> guess I really screwed up somehow
<ogra> nope
<ogra> do: apt-cache search nvidia-legacy
<ogra> it should give some output
<ogra> you need the legacy module which is in linux-restricted-modules-....-legacy
<ogra> and nvidia-glx-legacy
* mhz has only ati
<Katsumoto> heh
<Katsumoto> apt-cache search nvidia-legacy: gave nothing
<ogra> you need the restricted archive enbled
<Katsumoto> lol.
* Katsumoto is clueless
<ogra> just change back /etc/X11/xorg.conf from "nvidia" to "nv" :)
<ogra> then your X server will work again
<Katsumoto> yes that's what I was thinkin...but apparently when I do: sudo nano /etc/x11/xorg.conf
<Katsumoto> I get a blank page...
<ogra> the X11 is capitalized :)
<Katsumoto> k.
<Katsumoto> righ, changed it back to normal. how do I save the changes? just do alt f4 ?
<ogra> i'm no nano user ... but i gess ctrl-k
<Katsumoto> ^G ^X, those symbols I have no clue which keys that are on my kb :P
<Katsumoto> ah
<Katsumoto> ok
<ogra> the little ^ means control
<ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart should bring you back to a gui login
<Katsumoto> ctl+K means cut text
<Katsumoto> ^J = justify
<Katsumoto> might be that one?
<ogra> ctrl-X
<ogra> for exit :)
<mhz> ctrl + o to save
* mhz is nano user
<Katsumoto> ok
<mhz> <enter> to accept changes and name
* mhz is away but you can ping me if need me
<Katsu> thanks for helping me once more :P
<Katsu> sry I messed up earlier
<ogra> :)
<ogra> dont worry :)
<Katsu> dinnertime
<Katsu> heh
<ogra> yup, here too
<mhz_idle> ogra: do you know which TZ is jane silber?
<mhz_idle> hehehe, we should have EduPoints in order to motivate more participation
<DeeJay1> hello
<mhz_idle> hi
<DeeJay1> sadly I have some trouble with edubuntu
<DeeJay1> X windows won't start on the thin client
<DeeJay1> with a "Fatal server error" Unrecognized option: vttty
<DeeJay1> vttty1 (sorry)
<mhz_idle> ?
<mhz_idle> weired
<mhz_idle> where did that messsage appear?
<DeeJay1> on the thin client console
<mhz_idle> and X is running on server?
<mhz_idle> did you try $ sudo ltsp-update ssh-keys ?
<mhz_idle> (on server side)
<DeeJay1> no I din't wait
<DeeJay1>  /s/din\t/didn\'t/ 
<DeeJay1> damn keyboard :(
<mhz_idle> hehehe
<DeeJay1> I'm changing the root filesystem to rw
<DeeJay1> maybe we'll see something in the logs here :/
<DeeJay1> brb
* mhz_demo is leaving to demo edubuntu
<yvesC> ogra, what the deadline for new version of gcompris in drapper?
<DeeJay1> re
<DeeJay1> hmm, is there the ltsp chroot somewhere to download ?
<DeeJay1> it did a selfdestruct here :/
<neurogeek> re
#edubuntu 2005-11-22
<grace_> konfuzed, what gives?
<grace_> not a lot of users in this channel
<konfuzed> heheheh
<robert11> HI My name is anna
<robert11> I really liked your launch cake
<robert11> edubuntu is fantastic
<robert11> Its got heaps of cool games on it
<robert11> and everythings for kids
<robert11> .
<robert11> I am 9
<mhz> hi
<mhz> highvoltage: what TZ are you in?
<dabaR> whats a launch cake?
<robert11> ah The cake you use to launch edubuntu
<dabaR> hm...
<robert11> check out the photos
<dabaR> oh
<robert11> Very thrilled with edubuntu are the kids
<robert11> cooooool
<dabaR> Im glad you like the games, and also it is a complete operating system, that runs your whole computer, and is very good at that as well.
<robert11> no its her dad here...
<robert11> Running it as a terminal server
<highvoltage> mhz: GMT+2
<dabaR> ok, well, im glad you offer yoyur children a gnu linux system such as edubuntu to run.
<robert11> THEY HAVE NO CHOICE
<highvoltage> :)
<robert11> Although...
<dabaR> :)
<mhz> highvoltage: thx
<robert11> I did let them use XP for a while and they couldn't understand why
<robert11> it 
<robert11> just stopped working sometimes
* mhz sleepin'
<robert11> WAKE UP
<robert11> No not really
<dabaR> sshhh
<highvoltage> the KFC close by to us exploded this morning, quite violently.
<Tank> Morning :)
<JaneW> ogra: ping ... dapper meeting in #u-d
<JaneW> ogra: ping ... dapper meeting in #u-d
<ogra> JaneW, i'm there sine 9:05
<JaneW> ogra: ok great, sorry just haven't seen you talking so wasn't sure ;)
<ogra> so much to prepare :)
<JaneW> NOD
<JaneW> it's really helpful to me though, I'll be able to prepare a report and I can save hours of nagging this way ;)
<ogra> yes, next time i know it and will have it before the meeting :)
<ogra> but i prefer to have it prepared and formatted for cut'n paste :)
<JaneW> yes cut 'n paste is quick and helps us run through easily
<grace_> any one here using moodle
<juliux> ogra, do you have a problem if we get for the fair booth hardware from a company?
<ogra> juliux, why should i ?
<juliux> ogra, only a question
<juliux> ogra, i ask everybody
<schoof_> hello
<Katsu2> I'm trying to play .mp3 files but rhythmbox music player doesn't support them
<Katsu2> is there a package in the synaptic package manager I could install in order to play .mp3 files?
<Katsumoto> any1 around?
<juliux> Katsumoto, yes
<Katsumoto> ::13:02:: <Katsu2> I'm trying to play .mp3 files but rhythmbox music player doesn't support them
<Katsumoto> ::13:02:: <Katsu2> is there a package in the synaptic package manager I could install in order to play .mp3 files?
<Katsumoto> that was me :P
<Katsumoto> have any idead which package to install ?
<Katsumoto> ideas*
<juliux> Katsumoto, sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.8-mad
<Katsumoto> oke thanks :)
<Katsumoto> if I install it with sudo on the main account...will it be installed for other users as well
<Katsumoto> ?
<juliux> yes
<Katsumoto> oke I'll see if it works :)
<Katsu2> ok its installed with the synaptic pack. man. 
<Katsu2> juliux, another question...is it possible to have webcam conversations with GAIM
<Katsu2> when using MSN as protocol
<juliux> Katsu2, no
<Katsu2> hm ok
<juliux> you must use gnomemeeting
<Katsu2> and directly call to some1's ip address?
<juliux> i think so
<Katsu2> hmm
<Katsu2> oke
<juliux> i didn't have test it
<Katsumoto> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gaim-vv/
<Katsumoto> will that work with edubuntu ?
<Velmont> Or aMSN if you want to use webcam with MSN-users...
<Katsumoto> aMSN comes standard with edubuntu?
<Katsumoto> or can I just google and download it somewhere
<Katsumoto> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/a/amsn/
<Katsumoto> which one would I need?
<mhz> re
<Katsu2> hello again
<Katsu2> I just installed aMSN with synaptic pckg mngr.
<Katsu2> but I can't seem to get my webcam working somehow
<Katsu2> does any1 know how to enable it ? of configure it somewhere
<mhz_cooking> JaneW: hi
<mhz_cooking> JaneW: still no answer from jane.silber :(
<Katsu2> :(
<Katsu2> no1 who can help me atm?
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: i hav never used a webcam
<mhz_cooking> :)
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: is your webcam usb?  did you ask in #ubuntu?
<Katsu2> yes I asked in ubuntu
<Katsu2> and it's usb yes
<Katsu2> some1 said I had to dl a file...so I did
<Katsu2> but now I need to run it in a terminal window 
<Katsu2> sudo apt-get install /home/lars/desktop/amsn-installer.tar.gz
<Katsu2> doesn't seem to work...I'm probably forgetting something as usual :P
<mhz_cooking> aahhhh
<mhz_cooking> nope
<mhz_cooking> no like that
<Katsu2> heh
<Katsu2> how? :p
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: usually, all apps you download come in a packaged or compressed format
<Katsu2> yes
<mhz_cooking> .TAR .GZ .TAR.GZ .TBZ .TBZ2, etc
<Katsu2> it opens with file-roller
<mhz_cooking> all need to be unpackaged
<mhz_cooking> so,
<mhz_cooking> first
<Katsu2> extract
<mhz_cooking> $ sudo tar -xvzpf amsn-installer
<mhz_cooking> $ sudo tar -xvzpf amsn-installer.tar.gz
<mhz_cooking> but are you sure amsn is not ready to be installed via apt repositories?
<mhz_cooking> BTW, x = extract
<Katsu2> I installed it with that synaptic package man.
<mhz_cooking> v = verbose... show waht you do
<mhz_cooking> p = keep permissions
<Katsu2> but I can't seem to find a button that says start webcam convo.
<Katsu2> oke :)
<mhz_cooking> z = extract the .gz part
<mhz_cooking> f = the file...
<mhz_cooking> ohhh
<mhz_cooking> and you think that by installing 'manually', you'll have such button?
<Katsu2> lol. I though that with this installer I would have aMSN + the option to start webcam/voice convo's yes
<mhz_cooking> heheehehe
<Katsu2> guess not :P
<mhz_cooking> dunno, never tried a webcam
<mhz_cooking> does it work with gnomemeeting?
<mhz_cooking> did you google for amsn webcam use ?
<mhz_cooking> or maybe your_model amsn
<Katsu2> it worked with gnome meeting yes
* mhz_cooking never tried amsn either. I use IRC only
<mhz_cooking> ok, so the webcam is supported well
<mhz_cooking> one less worry
<Katsu2> lol indeed
<mhz_cooking> your only issue is amsn
<Katsu2> would be great if it worked...
<Katsu2> since my little brother is very fond of it heh
<mhz_cooking> does Kopete work with webcams?
<Katsu2> I was told that aMSN supported webcam convo's
<Katsu2> hmm Kopete = suse linux right?
<mhz_cooking> Kopete is a chatting application started out by a chilean teen student and nowadays is default app. in KDE
<Katsu2> ah yes I've been using that before when I had suse.
<mhz_cooking> IIRC it supports many chatting protocols
<Katsu2> oke then let me log on again..brb
<mhz_cooking> did that work with webcam?
<mhz_cooking> did kopete work with webcam?
<Katsu2> it's dling/installing atm :)
<Katsu2> Paul invited you to start Video Conversation, which requires the latest version of MSN Messenger. You can install the latest version at http://g.msn.com/5meen_us/122.
<Katsu2>  (16:25:49) Paul says: 
<Katsu2> The invitation to this video conversation was not sent because .:: Niels <3 Marjolein ::. | Sex is like Nokia...Connecting people is using an older version of Messenger that does not support this feature 
<Katsu2> nope
<Katsu2> not supported as well
<mhz_cooking> hehehehehe
<mhz_cooking> I love M$ messages
<mhz_cooking> esp. when referring to 'compatibility'
<Katsu2> lol indeed
<mhz_cooking> WHY, I say WHY are they forcing people to have 'latest' pieces of crap and insecurity features??
<Katsu2> I can't remember any1 saying that it isn't possible to use a webcam when working with linux
<mhz_cooking> that's my point
<zakame> mhz_cooking: buwahaha
<mhz_cooking> all developers (good ones) keep in mind they have to code good stuff. Good meand it MUST work on many scenarios
<mhz_cooking> zakame: :D indeed, but is still anoying
<mhz_cooking> zakame: but you what is more anoying actually
<Katsu2> so there's absolutely no other programm that'll allow me to have webcam convo's in MSN kind of programms?
<mhz_cooking> that people still falls for it and accept or even wants to deal with such stupidity
<zakame> mhz_cooking: yup, and I hope that ought to change
<mhz_cooking> zakame: every change starts locally
<mhz_cooking> locally = even your house
<zakame> indeed... which reminds me, I should do a ubuntu love day here rsn
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: hmmm, you could send a letta to M$ executives and developers asking for inter-compatibility :D
<mhz_cooking> zakame: rsn
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: maybe visit www.google.com/linux
<mhz_cooking> and google for amsn webcam use
<Katsu2> lol :P
<Katsu2> indeed :)
<zakame> real soon now
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: sorry I can't help you 
<Katsu2> lol you've helped me with many things so far...thnx a lot :o!
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: and I hope you understand that it is very likely this compatibility issue is not caused by Linux
<mhz_cooking> but from the other developers who close access to compatibility 'codes'
<mhz_cooking> np
<mhz_cooking> otherwise, I am sure many apps. would 'talk' nicely with MSN stuff
<Katsu2> exactly
<Katsu2> that's why I'm so eager to get it working as well.
<Katsu2> I mean, it should work after all.
<mhz_cooking> .oO(ooops, gotta get back to cooking or wife'll kick my chilean free as in freedom butt)
<mhz_cooking> yup
<Katsu2> lol
<mhz_cooking> Katsu2: I am sure there's a way around this problem
<mhz_cooking> :D
<Katsu2> jup, yay for google
* mhz_cooking BBL
<francoisb> Hello everybody
<francoisb> I've installed Schooltoll, witch seems nice, but I don't know wich id ans password is expected in the admin part.
<francoisb> Anyone's here?
<francoisb> Ok, I be back later...
<Katsu2> hello
<Katsu2> I was just compiling gaim-vv when I received this msg
<Katsu2> *** Could not run GLIB test program, checking why...
<Katsu2> *** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
<Katsu2> *** exact error that occurred. This usually means GLIB is incorrectly installed.
<Katsu2> configure: error:
<Katsu2> *** GLib 2.0 is required to build Gaim; please make sure you have the GLib
<Katsu2> *** development headers installed. The latest version of GLib is
<Katsu2> *** always available at http://www.gtk.org/.
<Katsu2> is that available through synaptics or what?
<crimsun> you probably need to run ''sudo apt-get build-dep gaim'' first at the very least
<Katsu2> I did ./configure
<Katsu2> now it's compiling
<Katsu2> I have Glib+GTK+ 2.0 installed so it should work now
<Katsu2> allright, it's installing
<Katsu2> configure was successfull
<Katsu2> :)
<Katsu2> compiling*
<mhz_cooking> re
<neurogeek> mhz, ping
<neurogeek> mhz, ping
<mhz> neurogeek: pong
<neurogeek> mhz, im here
<neurogeek> how are you doing??
<mhz> uuuf
<neurogeek> mhz, join #cuaima.. we can talk there
<mhz> I sent email to ebajada, but no answer yet
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> I wan in #solve
<mhz> was
<neurogeek> yeap.. i saw you there.. but.. id rather talk in cuaima.. i'll tell you there
<mhz> ok
#edubuntu 2005-11-23
<paolob> Hi guys! can I dist-upgrade from debian testing to edubuntu? thank you!
<ogra> current testing ? 
<ogra>  guess that wont work, is debian testing already frozen ? if yes, since when ? if not, i wouldnt suggest to even try it except youre a apt pinning expert
<paolob> ogra: yes, current testing, with some packet from unstable
<ogra> then i wouldnt suggest to try it ...
<ogra> edubuntu breezy is older
<paolob> ogra: no, it's a four-months-ago testing
<ogra> and its a 5 months ago edubuntu ... 
<ogra> we had freezes where no updates cam in...
<ogra> *came
<mhz> re
<mhz> ogra: I was reading about short content being ready after installing, so users would have something or samples instead of empty OS
<mhz> how can exactly can we help?
<ogra> short content ?
<mhz> things go too fast that sometimes (usually) get lost and thinking I could have given hand there
<mhz> yup
<mhz> w8
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ExampleContent
<mhz> also, there are many things in LaunchPad but I ignore how one can exactly help there
<ogra> its in fact what you wanted to do with your content stuff you described the other day ... 
<ogra> just go on as you described :)
<mhz> ooooh
<ogra> the common apps of ubuntu are covered ...
<ogra> we can make a edubuntu-example-content package ...
<mhz> i see, very related
<ogra> while i still think we should have a -cl -de -fr -es -en -etc version for each lang
<mhz> yup
<mhz> actually, I have been thinking about the best suitable way to name packages
<mhz> I guess this could be:
<mhz> PackageName_Language_Subject_Level.dpkg
<mhz> now, the point is.. how do we manage 10.000 excercises of Math?
<ogra> you cant use underscores ... and there is a versioning scheme for packages ...
<ogra> this can result in *very* long filenames
<mhz> each teacher makes a file? all excercises of Geometry are in just one file we all maintain?
<mhz> underscores? oh, no, that was to separate parameters only
<ogra> i would make the level a config option so you can just reconfigure the package as needed
<mhz> so, how would you picture the daily work for this?
<mhz> and how would you name it?
<ogra> and swap the subject and language to match the common ubuntu package name scheme
<ogra> edubuntu-math-exercises-cl_0.1-1.deb 
<ogra> for example
<ogra> just install all subjects, diskspace is chep
<ogra> *cheap
<mhz> yup, indeed but how do you picture we could manage the actual work? I mean, KIG has its file format. I create a Kig file with one excercise. Then 10 other teachers do the same.
<mhz> I endup with 11 kig files
<mhz> My initial idea was that we can rate those excercises by using them and giving them EduPoints
<mhz> based on how well or easy to get it was
<ogra> yup
<mhz> how well structured it is
<ogra> sounds fine
<ogra> make osure the teachers agree to the CC license
<mhz> does sounds fine but I cant picture how to do it the whole thing of submitting files and even rating
<ogra> sort it in folders and we can install it in a appropriate location
<mhz> of course, licensed free
<mhz> so you say we should think of a file tree?
<mhz> and use Bzr?
<ogra> for the package, indeed
<ogra> oh, yeah, that would be really cool
* mhz needs to learn more on 'the way developers work with files'
<mhz> ogra: edubuntu comes with moodle?
<ogra> next release
<mhz> ooh, so I was right. A person asked me and I said 'no' but then I felt not sure
<ogra> it was planned for breezy, but didnt make it
<mhz> and what's the use of getting it as default app?
<ogra> ask the teachers we had at the summit
<ogra> they want it...
<ogra> as well as mediawiki
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> yup, but in you opinion?
<ogra> i dont know the school CMS systems good enough to judge
<mhz> LOL
<ogra> technically every app that not uses php is fine for me 
<mhz> you are being politician now
<mhz> me too
<ogra> but since there seem to be only php driven CMS for schools...
<mhz> hmmmmmmmmmm
<mhz> i guess there might be some python CMS or LMS out there
<ogra> so what do you expect from me... technically its crap and usability wise i cant judg
<ogra> e
<mhz> if not, that sounds like a nice project to invest on
<mhz> ogra: hehehe
<ogra> i think schooltool is on its way
<mhz> that's an opinion!
<ogra> but its not there yet, and teachers want something to use *now*
<mhz> ogra: so, is there anything you think I can help on dapper? (besides evangelising stuff)
<ogra> and since moodle is the best known one, i think it was the correct chioce
<mhz> (you know I have no coding skills yet)
<mhz> so far, yes
<ogra> so go on with your content project... 
<ogra> motivate some artworkers :)
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> help testing ;)
<mhz> I have Pablo portafolio
<mhz> he was very excited with just the 'far chance' to get payed a little for theming work
<ogra> we'll have the first CDs really soon this time
<mhz> the only little problem with him is that I have to be wip him from time to time
<mhz> :D
<mhz> ogra: yes, I know I can do that 'social' part but I still feel it is not fair just you and few others do all the 'hands-on- work
<mhz> arkan0x: holas!
<arkan0x> mhz, ! hi
<arkan0x> pv
<mhz> okeeeey
<ogra> mhz, so grab something, work on it and show me the work if you want to come in the coders corner :)
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> i know "show me the code"
<mhz> hence I asked.. anything I can do (not coding)?
<mhz> well, maybe you are right.
<mhz> it's simple. Either you program or you do the social part
<ogra> or the conten part :)
<ogra> or the artwork part ...
<mhz> yah
<ogra> there is more than black and white
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> I slap myself for not startinglearning python before when I had the chance
<mhz> ogra: tomorrow I start participating in a very important 7 day event
<mhz> http://mac.uchile.cl
<mhz> I'll be part of the CDSL (www.cdsl.cl)
<arkan0x> http://www.mac.uchile.cl/
<mhz> I will give away some Ubuntu CDs
<arkan0x> xD
<mhz> breezy ones
<mhz> but soon enough, I'll have another event (free software only related)
<mhz> and then I'll run out of cds in a second
<ogra> heh
<mhz> I emailed JaneSilber yesterday morning
<mhz> and still no answer on Ubuntu Conference Pack
<ogra> i think she came back from travelling today 
<mhz> also, I know shipping is slow and for small amount of quatities because over 50 CDs, then Chilean Customs get very freaked out and we gotta pay expensive rates
<mhz> so, I have no clue how to bypass this
<mhz> ogra: d'u think edupoints is ok or it should be karma?
<ogra> as you like, i think edupoints sounds good :)
<mhz> i ask because of the contributon perspective of karma
<mhz> I mean 100.000 edupoints would mean a lot of work
<mhz> ogra: why is that I can do ghemical /usr/share/doc/ghemical/examples/bromobenzene.gpr BUT
<mhz> i cant do File -> Open -> /usr/...
<mhz> i see nothing below
<mhz> like I had no permission
<ogra> doubleclick
<mhz> i know
<mhz> I go all the way from /home to /usr
<mhz> i get inside usr and there is no dirs
<mhz> but via terminal I know there are lots of them
<ogra> works here ...
<ogra> no idea what that is...
<ogra> and ts bedtime for me (4am)
<mhz> ogra: ooops
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> ok
<mhz> nite Mr. Dapper
<ogra> why sorry ?
<mhz> or Mr. diaper
<mhz> sorry to keep you up
<ogra> i like to stay up this long ...
<ogra> heh
<mhz> ooo
<ogra> but my Gf gets angry at some point ...
<mhz> Mr. Server has arrived
<ogra> night
<mhz> I imagine
<mhz> night
<mhz> all women get angry with that
<jsgotangco> mr. server?
<dabaR> yup thats me...
<jsgotangco> hi
<dabaR> hey
<dabaR> where are you from jerome?
<dabaR> your last name sounds spanish.
<dabaR> Im from Croatia.
<dabaR> But in Canada now.
<dabaR> Not that it is related to anything..
<dabaR> Im gonna go write my procedural document...
<arkan0x> mhz, parece ke es capa 8
<arkan0x> XD
<mhz> no
<mhz> por 4ta vez..
<mhz> paso a paso
<arkan0x> cuando entro a /usr no sale nada , pero tu subes con las flechita y con el scroll
<arkan0x> aparece
<arkan0x> subes el scroll y aparece 
<mhz> teni toda la raja partida!!
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> soy oficialmente layer 8
<mhz> o layer 0
<arkan0x> jajjaa
<mhz> lol
<mhz> me voy ha hacer una polera que me haga orgulloso de ser capa 8
<mhz> I love layer 8
<arkan0x> hahaa
<arkan0x> layer 8 pOOW4!
<arkan0x> jaja
<mhz> hihihi
<mhz> measure state is 1
<mhz> rotate_z skipped ; counter = 1
<mhz> Segmentation fault
<mhz> booo
<arkan0x> seee
<arkan0x> ese es el error xD
<arkan0x> jejee
<mhz> ghemical era bueno
<arkan0x> ES BUENO !
<mhz> sin segmentation fault
<arkan0x> pero el ke lo empaketo ....no lo hizo bien
<arkan0x> yo lo compilo del source y anda bien , el ghemical de edubuntu es la penultima version , salio este anno 
<arkan0x> en debian stable/testing esta la version 1.0 y esa no se cae para nada ,pero es gtk1
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> el del source que version es?
<arkan0x> el de ubuntu , 1.90 
<arkan0x> yo igual he compilado 1.90 y 191 y hasta el momento 0 rollo
<arkan0x> eske ghemical se puede compilar con opciones ,soporte pa openbabel , mpqc y mopac7
<arkan0x> tb con soporte bonobo , ke no cacho
<mhz> arkan0x: please school me with such things. I need some of that info for edubuntu talks
<mhz> arkan0x: why dont you provide a compiled ghemical by you?
<mhz> the one that works
* mhz going to sleep
<dbc> hello
<dbc> Is it difficult to make your own version of ubuntu?  What did you have to do, set up your own repository and then modify the installer, or is there more?
<mhz> hi all
<juliux> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi, juliux 
<mhz> your english is getting betta
<mhz> juliux: did you use the CdCoverAndSlip?
<juliux> mhz, until jet not, but i think we will make some edubuntu cds for the linux days at the beginning of december
<juliux> mhz, but only s/w
<mhz> okidoki
<juliux> hehe
<mhz> juliux: any chances you could upload the Black and White covers you use?
<juliux> mhz, yes i can make
<mhz> this way others can also benefit from it
<juliux> mhz, i will try to make a cd cover for a slim case
<mhz> I intenttionaly left the left side of the CD cover with no info, so LoCo teams could even add their own country's flag or something
<juliux> mhz, very good idea
<juliux> mhz, ubuntu/edubuntu will have a both on the next cebit!
<mhz> juliux: i have a problem: For my non-native english, Cd cover is the thing we stick on the CD. Cd Slip is the case/envelope cardboard stuff. Is that same for you?
<mhz> educool!!!
<juliux> mhz, for me is the cd cover what you do on the case of a cd
<mhz> aahhhhhhh
<juliux> mhz,  the other on is a cd label 
<juliux> mhz, that is what i think
<mhz> good point
<mhz> we should ask a native one
<juliux> mhz, the cd label you print on the cd
<juliux> mhz, yes we should
<mhz> otherwise we're gonna have very diff problems :D
<juliux> mhz, yes of course
<mhz> ok, juliux so I intentionally left the CD label left side with no info so you can add your own logo or falg :)
<juliux> mhz, ok
<mhz> that Cd label is already done in 1 color
<mhz> so you either print it Black and White or Red and White
<juliux> mhz, but i will do no cd labe, i will only write with a pen on the cd
<mhz> oh
<mhz> well, the CD 'cover' is white background
<mhz> but it wont work well for CD case
<juliux> mhz, because to print out a cd label is to expensive to print out cd labes 
<mhz> ideed
<mhz> indeed
<juliux> mhz, so i will take the the front side from the cdandslip and will printet out and will use it as cdcover
<mhz> good idea
<mhz> maybe the world wil not look good unless you make it GreyScale
<juliux> mhz, this i think will printet out in color
<mhz> oh, better!
<juliux> mhz, i will printet out at my ink-jet printer 
<mhz> how about a sticker instead of CD label?
<mhz> will that let the CD drive work ok?
<mhz> I mean, I know hand writing is 'free' but it may give wrong impression to public
<juliux> mhz, the problem is if you stick something on the cd it can be that the data on the cd will destroyed
<mhz> oh
<mhz> i see
<juliux> so i think you shouldn't stick anything on the cd
<mhz> good point
<juliux> mhz, what we can do is we can print directly on the cd but
<juliux> at the moment i don't have such a printer
<juliux> the other possibility is LightScribe but this only works with windows
<mhz> puaj!!
<mhz> juliux: wrong. there is no other possibility :D
<mhz> What does LightScribe do?
<juliux> mhz, http://www.lightscribe.com/use/winterholidays.aspx?id=226# such nice things
<juliux> mhz, it looks very cool i think
<juliux> mhz, but the blank cds cost 60cent
<jsgotangco> wow that's expensive
<juliux> jsgotangco, i hope that i will be cheaper in the next month
<juliux> http://search.ebay.de/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.de%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=lightscribe&category0=
<juliux> there you can see what i cost
<mhz> juliux: how about KLabels or glabels?
<juliux> mhz, what do you mean?
<mhz> have you tried any of those?
* mhz hasn't
<juliux> mhz, yes i have use glabels
<juliux> mhz, very nice tool
<mhz> I used it once for biz card
* juliux too
* juliux have to make biz cards for ubuntu and edubuntu
<mhz> there is already a model uploaded in wiki
<mhz> UNFORTUNATELY, it is made for Adobe Illustrator
* mhz still complains this inconsequences after reading Manifesto
<juliux> mhz, i want to have a doublesite biz card for me, one side edubuntu and ubuntu other site privat
<mhz> oh
<juliux> mhz, because i need this if i make contact on fairs
<mhz> i see
<mhz> of course
<mhz> can you insert a .png or .jpg in Glabels?
<juliux> mhz, good question
<mhz> I tried it, unsuccesfully
<juliux> mhz, i have there some people in german who will me design my cards
<mhz> oohhh
* mhz envys juliux 
<mhz> :)
<juliux> hi jane_ 
<mhz> JaneW: there's gonna be some activities in Chile, regarding Free Software and education starting today until january. I have gotten no answer from Jane.silber yet. I did get some breezy cds, thoug.
<mhz> jane_: there's gonna be some activities in Chile, regarding Free Software and education starting today until january. I have gotten no answer from Jane.silber yet. I did get some breezy cds, thoug.
<mhz> In chile, for hoary, a friend of mine requested over 60 cds for an Install Fest and Chilean customs made him pay about U$100 for them
<mhz> jane_: JaneW: based on that fact, this time I only reuqested 50 Cds
<mhz> but ofcourse they'll be given away about 25 during today and next friday (i'll have to reduce the handing out). Next 2xth saturday, there's gonna be an install fest in which I am also participating. I'll need to give away the other 25
<mhz> today, I participate in a Expo about IT for Video and Sound. I even got a small stand
<jane_> mhz: awesome
<mhz> JaneW: jane_: it will be very helpful if we could get a Conference Pack soon
<jane_> mhz: Jane Silber isn;t back in the office yet, she is still touring the states AFAIK
<jane_> she hasn;t been on-line since UBZ
<jane_> marilize has the conf pack stuff, so she is the person to contact
<jane_> ping her on IRC
<mhz> the funds we have raised (not much but enough for this expo and next install fest) are already aimed to be spent. After these events, I am in zero again :D
<jane_> bwteen 7:00 - 12:00 UTC
<mhz> ooops
<mhz> ok, i'll do that effort
<jane_> my focus is to help with getting the stuff developed
<mhz> that's about 4:00 and 9:00 AM here :)
<mhz> jane_: I understand
<mhz> jane_: you have an email for marilize?
<mhz> jane_: and who's te one to re-request more breezy CD's? Of course, to avoid chilean customs stupidity, I'll have to use every Tecnocimiento pal names :)
<mhz> JaneW:  and who's te one to re-request more breezy CD's? Of course, to avoid chilean customs stupidity, I'll have to use every Tecnocimiento pal names :)
<JaneW> mhz: yes, I did give it to you before (but she was at UBZ) marilize@ubuntu.com
<JaneW> we get 100s of mails a day though, so it's hard to get to everyone
<mhz> JaneW: oh, sorry for my bad memory
<JaneW> although I would love for you to get a conf pack so you can do your thing!
<mhz> JaneW: np, I am not that pushy :)
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> yup, it would be ideal
<JaneW> mhz: marilize is in charge of CD distribution
<JaneW> info @ ubuntu.cpm goes to her too
<mhz> JaneW: actually, there's gonna be press cover in the most importan newspapers in Chil;e
<JaneW> and all the CD orders
<mhz> chile
<mhz> and the other good news is that I have been asked to write a 600 word article on Liunux on Education (obviously, i'll use about 400 for Edubuntu :) )
<mhz> that article is gonna be distributed free of charge to 1000 schools in Chile
<JaneW> mhz: you ROCK!
<mhz> hehehe, not that much yet, but I hope to
<JaneW> it's time for me to go, my son is 'graduating' today
<mhz> congrats!
<JaneW> from preschool, starting big school next year
<mhz> congrats!1
<JaneW> hehe
<mhz> proud mom
<JaneW> they are making a big deal of it
<mhz> of course
<JaneW> we have to go all dressed up and have a dinner etc
<JaneW> sweet
<mhz> he's growing
<JaneW> anyway being 6 year olds, dinner is at 6pm
<JaneW> (early)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> sure
<mhz> lol
<JaneW> anyway see you all next week
<mhz> nice weekend and party
<JaneW> I will ask Marilize to sort you out, she is in CT too
<ogra> JaneW, have fun
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> thx
<JaneW> maybe mail again and CC me?
<mhz> sure!
<JaneW> then I can chase that directly for you
<JaneW> thanks
<JaneW> bye :)
<ogra> ciao
<JaneW> bye Oli
<mhz> ogra: didnt you get slaped when you went to bed that early/late?
<ogra> nah
<ogra> never :)
<mhz> ogra rocks!
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> I always get punched and told off if i go to bed after 1:00 AM
<JaneW> heh
<mhz> :)
<mhz> esp. because i do not want to wake up at 7:00 AM when my daughter starts asking for breakfast
<mhz> and as my wife is the one supporting this house and expenses (she's the one getting money)... I m in charge of the house
<mhz> and family biz
<mhz> biz =stuff
<mhz> anyways, time to cook
<mhz> lol
* mhz_cooking BBL
<jsgotangco> ahh crap kjcole left
<jsgotangco> i was about to ask him something
<unimatrix9> hello there
<unimatrix9> is there any change of an edubuntu live cd in the near future?
<unimatrix9> chance...
<unimatrix9> err
<unimatrix9> :)
<unimatrix9> will there be an  edubuntu live cd in the near future?
<unimatrix9> ?
<unimatrix9> no?
<unimatrix9> is that the answer,,, silence?
<unimatrix9> means no?
<jelkner> anybody here?
<unimatrix9> yes me
<ogra> unimatrix9, next release
<unimatrix9> well thats very good news
<unimatrix9> great
<unimatrix9> :)
<unimatrix9> when will next release be due?
<unimatrix9> i want to use it for an first grade school
<ogra> april
<unimatrix9> but have to dome it first
<unimatrix9> demo
<unimatrix9> :)
<ogra> we always release in oct and apr 
<jelkner> ogra: hi oliver!
<unimatrix9> april, ok
<ogra> hey jelkner 
<unimatrix9> thanx for the inside
<jelkner> and hello to you to, unimatrix9
<jelkner> ogra: is this a good time for a question?
<ogra> sure
<unimatrix9> i guess now is the time, yes
<unimatrix9> ;)
<jelkner> i've started teaching beginner classes at a few of the edubuntu sites...
<jelkner> we have a need for an easy way to switch to a spanish desktop
<jelkner> here is what i would like:
<jelkner> 1. you make some change in some prominant place (the login screen, perhaps?)
<jelkner> telling the system you want a spanish desktop
<jelkner> 2. after that, you get:
<jelkner>  a. spanish menus
<jelkner> b. spanish keyboard
<jelkner> c. spanish openoffice
<ogra> the language must be installed before
<jelkner> d. spanish mozilla
<jelkner> i did that
<jelkner> (i think)
<ogra> then you should be able to get a full localized desktop
<jelkner> how?
<ogra> normally by selecting the language in gdm ... ldm doesnt support that yet, but its on my dapper todo list
<jelkner> ahh
<jelkner> so we can't do it in edubuntu yet, yes?
<unimatrix9> he could install gdm?
<ogra> you could hack on ldm to read LC_ALL before forwarding the environment 
<jelkner> unimatrix9: not with ltsp
<ogra> unimatrix9, nope
<ogra> gdm doesnt support xauth ssh forwarding ...
<jelkner> ok, i'll wait for dapper
<jelkner> i've got 5 labs to do this with, so anything instructions that begin with "you could hack..." i rule out ;-)
<unimatrix9> there is afcause the spanish linux distro, but i guess you already know that...
<jelkner> unimatrix9: i probably should have installed it in spanish, but i really need both languages
<jelkner> and i want the language to be controlled by the user
<unimatrix9> its an very good question by the way, never thought of it before, we have the same kind of issue, so normally i would do an local thing, in my case dutch
<unimatrix9> what i was thinkin about is maybe an option, an dual boot system, that would mean one whole install in one language and an other in english, at boot you use grub to choose...
<unimatrix9> its just an theory
<ogra> ubuntu supports 90 languages, thats not the problem
<ogra> you can hav them all installed at the same time ...
<ogra> the problem is that there is no way to select which language you want yet
<unimatrix9> switching is the issue i understand
<ogra> at least from thin clients ...
<ogra> theprobelm is to get the information which langs are supported from the server to the client, so you cant select something thats non existent ... if i would have solved this in a sfae way, we would have had it in breezy ;)
<unimatrix9> ok
<unimatrix9> well, got to go, happy tuxing , thanx for the caht
<unimatrix9> chat
<unimatrix9> ;P
<unimatrix9> bye
<unimatrix9> keep up the good work!
<ogra> ciao
<ogra> :)
<khermans> Anyone here?
<khermans> Im looking to setup Edubuntu in a small computer lab
<khermans> need some tips
<khermans> it is already installed on the server
<khermans> but i dont know how to make clients connect and authenticate so that they can access their data from any computer in the lab, no matter what machine they log on from
<jelkner> ogra: i gotta run, oliver... we have a spare machine in the lab not doing anything in particular in the moment.
<jelkner> is it too early to run dapper on it?
<ogra> there are no ltsp changes packaged yet
<jelkner> this is a stand alone
<jelkner> not ltsp
<ogra> dapper itself is fine to use in a testing environemnt
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> ok, cya later...
<jelkner> thanks!
<zdziczek> ?"
<zdziczek> anyone around?
<ogra> partially
<zdziczek> im trying to get this set up
<zdziczek> i have never used LTSP before
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> dont miss this ^^^
<zdziczek> i am user of Ubuntu since the beginning and Debian even longer, but I never used Edubuntu
<zdziczek> i read it
<zdziczek> i have a whole slew of weird machines in a lab
<zdziczek> i want someone to be able to sit down at any machine and access their data
<zdziczek> so, i assume this means they have to authenticate to the single Edubuntu LTSP server
<ogra> the current ltsp in edubuntu only supports thin clients
<ogra> at least out of the box ... 
<ogra> if you want stuff like nis or ldap/kerberos, you have to set it up yourself ...
<zdziczek> ogra, well i dont really understdna ltsp
<zdziczek> i just want anyone to sit down at the machine and be able to access their ddata -- i guess these guys were using XDCMP before
<ogra> yu take some old machines without harddisk, and boot then via network ...
<zdziczek> ogra, these ones have HDD
<ogra> the network boot starts krenel, nfs mounted root filesys and a xaserve ...
<ogra> *xserver
<ogra> on the xserver runs a login manager that establishes a ssh tunneled x session to the server ...
<zdziczek> ok
<ogra> all user/software management happens on this server
<zdziczek> but these only boot from HDD or CD
<ogra> users have their data centralized on this server ...
<zdziczek> yes, on the Edubuntu server?
<ogra> you can use www.rom-o-matic.com bootisos
<zdziczek> ogra, hehe was i talking to you about an all-in-one before?
<zdziczek> these all have different cards
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<ogra> you can generate a iso for every card you like ;)
<zdziczek> ogra, yeah can i make an ISO with every network card?
<ogra> look at the rom-o-matic url mentioned on the wikipage
<zdziczek> sweet
<ogra> it has a huge amount of cards it supports
<zdziczek> sweet, will it auto-detect on startup of the ISO?
<ogra> noe
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you need to generate a disk for every machine or need PXE or etherboot capable cards ...
<zdziczek> thats stupid
<zdziczek> ok i found out that about half the machines are using Realtek 8139
<zdziczek> ogra, will the machines need to boot from this disc all the time -- on every boot?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> you could also get a etherboot bootrom for them, then no cd is needed
<ogra> but thats more expensive than a CD
<zdziczek> yeah cd will work
#edubuntu 2005-11-24
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I'm using Ubuntu 5.10
<Lord_Athur> how can I install edubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> nobody?
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<mhz> hi
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: contesta pu
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<arkan0x> mhz, ~
<arkan0x> mhz, sorry
<mhz> shaaaaaa
<mhz> tienes el beep apagado?
<arkan0x> eske taba acositao XD
<arkan0x> sep
<arkan0x> parece
<mhz> aaahhh
<arkan0x> wats ap ?
<arkan0x> mhz,sobre conky ?
<mhz> he
<mhz> ademas
<arkan0x> yap ,cuenta
<arkan0x> apt-get install conky xD
<arkan0x> te mando mi .conkyrc
<mhz> pensaba en que otras cosas podriamos llevar pal eveno
<arkan0x> yap
<mhz> evento
<mhz> llevare un Tux de peluche
<arkan0x> pal install o pala semana de la bienal ?
<mhz> ambos
<arkan0x> okidokis
<mhz> pa la bienal sobre todo, creo que debemos tener panfletos
<arkan0x> yap
<mhz> y el CDSL debe tener poleras!
<arkan0x> jejeje, yo creo ke el cdsl primero debe ser cdsl xD antes de tener poleras xD
<mhz> con la evangelizacion, seguro llega mas ayuda
<arkan0x> o por lo menos la gente que baya pala bienal ke lleve su polera linuxera
<mhz> tu viste que no es dificil evangelizar
<arkan0x> esasto xD
<mhz> si no me equivoco, hay unos papeles para estampar poleras con la plancha
<arkan0x> sep ,papel transfer , es caro igual
<mhz> he
<arkan0x> y lo bacan es tener una buena impresora a color
<mhz> creo que por 3000 a 3500 podriamos mandar a hacer poleras
<mhz> de a 10 unidades
<mhz> y por 5000 a 6000 podriamos bordar camisas
<arkan0x> sep
<arkan0x> mhz, instala en la laptop , avidemux , cinelerra,mencoder ,audacity,ardour ,etc xD
<mhz> pa ke?
<arkan0x> pa mostrarlos pos xD
<mhz> tienes una lista?
<arkan0x> nop ,son los ke conosco nu ma
<arkan0x> pero , http://alts.homelinux.net/
<arkan0x> mhz, http://alts.homelinux.net/\
<arkan0x> mhz, http://alts.homelinux.net/
<mhz> ok cabro
<mhz> nos chateamos en la manana
<mhz> toy cansao
<arkan0x> yo tb , salu2 y wuenas noxes !
<magnon> ogra: ping
<matsavhalev> could someone help me strange problem with LTSP
<matsavhalev> cant figure out why i cant choose a kde session from the menu even though i can log into kde from the ltsp server
<matsavhalev> only gnome is an option
<matsavhalev> done what now
<juliux> ogra, can you pls check the german version of your slides from the ubz? wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu
<Yagisan> G'day All
* Yagisan points at topic, Nov 16 was a few days ago
<zakame> hmm
<Yagisan> G'day zakame, what's up ?
<zakame> Yagisan: just about to pray, good night! :)
<Yagisan> zakame: K, I had a busy weekend. Bub came out :-D
<zakame> yay!
<Yagisan> zakame: It's a boy!
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] :  The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | NEXT MEETING:  Nov 23 12:00 UTC  on #ubuntu-meeting. | Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Yagisan has a boy !!
<Yagisan> woohooo!
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> thanks ogra
<ogra> congrats
<Yagisan> bub was 3.655 KG
<Yagisan> night all
<holycow> hey all
<holycow> just wanted to say edubuntu is a pretty good pick of software
<holycow> nice work
<holycow> :)
<matsavhalev> im having a problem with edubuntu and ltsp, it will not give me the option to log into any desktop other than gnome on the session type menu. can anyone help?
<ogra> matsavhalev,  http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
#edubuntu 2005-11-25
<mhz> hi
<Burgundavia> salut mhz 
<Burgundavia> mhz, I had something to say to you, but I forgot what it was
<mhz> hi Burgundavia 
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> that happens a lot to you?
<Burgundavia> not usually
<mhz> about Wiki?
<mhz> about Moin stuff?
<Burgundavia> nope
<mhz> about educational content packaging for APT?
<Burgundavia> nope
<mhz> about how clever I am?
<mhz> :D
<Burgundavia> sorry, but nope
<mhz> about Edubuntu Chilean tour?
<mhz> was at leas something good?
<mhz> about Cd label and cs cover?
<mhz> cd cover
<Burgundavia> yes, that was it
<Burgundavia> some of the wording on it
<mhz> cool
<mhz> shoot
<Burgundavia> Breezy doesn't have X86 version any more
<Burgundavia> it has "for your x86 PC"
<Burgundavia> for your 64-bit pc
<Burgundavia> and for your Apple
<Burgundavia> not sure about the last one
<mhz> hmmm, i dont follow
<strusberg> Hi mhz
<Burgundavia> the label for the version
<Burgundavia> and the line on the back saying "This is a x86 version...."
<mhz> strusberg: oh, hi pal
<strusberg> I have a lot of thing to talk with you
<strusberg> benining about edubuntu...
<mhz> Burgundavia: so it should say..?
<Burgundavia> "This version is for your PC"
<mhz> strusberg: you can't imagine how much i wanted to go there
<Burgundavia> and as above for amd64 and ppc
<mhz> Burgundavia: ok, np. You wanna change it or me?
<strusberg> we will have more oportunities
<Burgundavia> you can do that
<Burgundavia> I am doing my own dvd covers
<mhz> strusberg: i hope so :)
<mhz> Burgundavia: okidoki
<mhz> strusberg: if i dont get there, how would you like we discuss about interesting stuff?
<mhz> strusberg: IRC?
<strusberg> mhz: We are looking to Videconference
<mhz> videoconf coul work
<mhz> what's the good average speed for it?
<strusberg> mhz: We have anothers events next year
<strusberg> mhz: June and October
<mhz> well, that i may get
<strusberg> mhz: However, we can work together from now.
<mhz> strusberg: sure, we need it. It is the moment for L.A.
<mhz> re
<mhz> strusberg_: sorry
<mhz> arkan0x: hey
<DaBass> hello
<DaBass> is there a way to netinstall edubuntu?
<DaBass> have laptop with no cdrom only pcmcia ethernet
<DaBass> anyone alive?
<Burgundavia> yes, I am alive
<Burgundavia> netinstall might be possible
<DaBass> how?
<Burgundavia> there are docs on the wiki for doing a netinstall for ubuntu
<Burgundavia> they might be valid
<DaBass> i have a small slak instalation on that notebook right now would it be posible to instal from it 
<DaBass> ?
<DaBass> i am really a newbe (in insstallation specialy)
<Burgundavia> no idea, sorry
<DaBass> thanx for pointing me to wiki i found some useful documents 
<DaBass> good night
<DaBass> DarthTode r u still here?
<UnIData> hi, i install edubunu but in the workstations the keyboard no function ok, the keys 2 and 4 are ok and the rest no, Why ?, thx in advanced
<aeon17x> Er, can you rephrase that in clearer English?
<UnIData> the key 3 and 4 work fine
<UnIData> q,e,e,t,r, ,x,f,t,u,o , so dont wotk
<UnIData> don't work
<UnIData> please help !
<UnIData> i install edubuntu 5.10
<ogra> UnIData, what kind of keymap are you using ? 
<Yagisan> G'day All
<juliux> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> ogra: My Wife sends her thanks for the topic message
<Yagisan> how are you juliux ?
<Yagisan> I'm exhausted, I've been playing "Mr Mum"
<juliux> Yagisan, i am fine
<juliux> Yagisan, and you?
<Yagisan> not too bad, I'm hoping my wife will be discharged from hospital soon
<Yagisan> have I missed anything interesting ? I had a preoccupied weekend :-D
<juliux> ogra, we will print a german flyer about ubuntu, can you write a very very little text about edubuntu? perhabs something special for german
<juliux> Yagisan, i don't know because i was on the linuxwordlexpo in frankfurt/germany
<mhz> hi
<juliux> hi mhz 
<Yagisan> mhz!
<mhz> hi mon
<mhz> hi mons
<juliux> mhz, i have make a cd cover in the right size
<mhz> cool
<mhz> can we see it?
<Yagisan> mhz: topic  :-D:-D
<mhz> ?
<juliux> mhz, mom
<Yagisan> mhz: | Yagisan has a boy !!
<juliux> mhz, http://www.juliux.de/linux/edubuntucover.svg 
<mhz> Yagisan: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!
<juliux> mhz, i will make in the next days a s/w version
<mhz> Yagisan: "there's a new boy in town"
<Yagisan> mhz: yep - he looks like his maternal grandfather
<mhz> is that good?
<juliux> mhz, in a few years there is edubuntu tester
<mhz> juliux: what's that?
<juliux> mhz, what?
<mhz> edubuntu tester?
<Yagisan> mhz: well, maternal granddad is a lady killer, so that's a bug yes
<mhz> hehehehe
<Yagisan> *big
<juliux> mhz, oh sorry a german word 
* Yagisan is a little too happy
<mhz> Yagisan: as lons as he doesnt look as his dad
<mhz> long
<Yagisan> juliux, edubuntu may need some more multilingual childrens apps for my kids to test
<juliux> Yagisan, ok
<Yagisan> juliux: as they need to be bi-lingual
<juliux> Yagisan, hehe
<Yagisan> when mum and dad are old and want to argue^Wtalk, the kids can translate :)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> juliux: it looks ok
<UnIData> keymap = es
<mhz> however, yesterday i was asked to change x86 for soemthing similar
<UnIData> ogra, keymap= es
<mhz> let me get the log
<mhz> UnIData: what's the problem
<mhz> Yagisan: still tired?
<ogra> UnIData, did you see the wiki about LTSPKeymap ?
<mhz> Yagisan: do you change diapers and prepare bottle?
<ogra> hi all
<ogra> juliux, can you mail it to me ?
<mhz> ogra: hi Mr. Edubuntu
<juliux> ogra, what should i email you?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes. I'm very good at changing nappies, washing, drying, and feeding babies
<juliux> ogra, at first moin
<UnIData> mhz, just in the keyboard function 3 and 4 keys
<ogra> in case someone is bored and wants to hack on something: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<mhz> juliux: ogra shouldn't we wiki juliux cd cover?
<mhz> ogra: hrhrhrhr
<mhz> hhehehe
<ogra> juliux, the text you have already, so i have some context to write the edubuntu paragraph ...
<mhz> Yagisan: we are the new generation of men
<Yagisan> ogra: like your mockup
<Yagisan> mhz: my wife calls me "Mr Mum"
<mhz> hehehe
<ogra> i'm about to implement the dhcpd.conf handling :)
<juliux> ogra, verein.ubuntu-de.org/material
<mhz> ogra: it looks pretty neat
<Yagisan> mhz: Just to take Kate to see mum at the hospital, I get the nappy change kit, feeding baby kit, and spare clothes kits all done
<juliux> ogra, it is a this moment only the translation of the english flyer
<mhz> Yagisan: I used to do the same. Incredibly, more women were attracted to me than when 
<mhz> Yagisan: I used to do the same. Incredibly, more women were attracted to me than when I was single ! :(
<ogra> juliux, that svg is pretty broken.... with which app was it made ? 
<juliux> ogra, inkscape
<ogra> hmm
<juliux> ogra, and smurf isn't online today so we cann't get a new version
<Yagisan> mhz: Oh yes! That's the beauty of it :) I love having the women interested in me
<Yagisan> mhz: It makes my wife act like a rooster
<ogra> i only see randomly aligned black boxes on a red backgrpound... and occasionally a ubuntu logo in there
<juliux> ogra, we will have tomorrow a meeting about the flyer because we have to print it this week so we get it in essen
<juliux> ogra, i will upload a version i have on my laptop
<ogra> oki
<mhz> Yagisan: yup, Unless you wanna have problems with your wife... It is good. In my case, it is terrible because temptation may rise :)
<Yagisan> mhz: It's like hearing the Japanese version of "Hey @!&$%!, get away from my husband"
<mhz> LOL
<Yagisan> mhz: I can easily control myself, I did pick my wife for a reason - but if she thinks I'm tempted I get more attention
<juliux> ogra, www.juliux.de/linux/ubuntuflyer.svg and ubuntuflyer2.svg
<mhz> LOL
<Yagisan> mhz: so I'm not going to let her know any time soon
<mhz> clever
<Yagisan> ogra: with opengl on X11 over ltsp, the opengl is rendered on the server (in software), and screen scrapes are sent to the clients right ?
<ogra> yep
<Yagisan> ogra: K, that explains why it was so unbearably slow
<Yagisan> ogra: can that be changed ?
<ogra> not in this release
<Yagisan> ogra: I understand, but is it possible ?
<ogra> no idea, i think you'll need local apps for this to render on the client
<mhz> Yagisan: HOW WOULD YOU RENDER IT?
<mhz> sorry caps
<mhz> many thin clients has no HD
<Yagisan> mhz: each client is running an X display, I thought if the X commands are then to the client, it could render it
<juliux> ogra, i think we will have a tft for your thinclient in essen
<Yagisan> mhz: *then sent to
<ogra> juliux, cool, thanks for organizing
<mhz> Yagisan: i can't picture it possible
<juliux> ogra, np
<Yagisan> ogra: hmm, I thought we could get a complete separation of where the app runs and what displays the graphics
<juliux> ogra, only a keyboard and mouse you have to bring withyou
<mhz> Yagisan: mybe if clients do have linux installed but run X via server
<ogra> juliux, np
<Yagisan> mhz: the clients boot up with a root on nfs, it runs X
<ogra> Yagisan, i doubt that works ...
<Yagisan> ogra: :'( but I want my p2 to concentrate on drawing the pretty pictures, and monitoring the keyboard and mouse
<Yagisan> ogra: while my amd64 takes care of logic, ai, and everything else
<juliux> ogra, and pls check in the next days www.linuxtag.org, it would be nice if you can send in a talk about edubuntu
<ogra> it could be achievable with standard X forwarding... but i doubt that works with ssh
<mhz> ogra: thx for explaining that in expert words :) (I did not find the way to do so)
<Yagisan> ogra: but don't you do X forwarding over ssh ?
<mhz> yes but not standard
<mhz> Yagisan: this is Edubuntu way not LTSP standrd
<mhz> afaik, LTSP standard does no use ssh
<ogra> Yagisan, we do ... but i think thats only compressed image data
<Yagisan> mhz: I know this is not vanilla LTSP, but I do have a legitimate use-case for wanting this
<mhz> i imagine
<mhz> i dont doubt
<mhz> it is just that I dont think it is possible -not in the way we currently use it
<mhz> and cant picture a valid way
* Yagisan is googleing OpenGL over X11
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> well done!
<juliux> btw i have arrange a little both for ubuntu/edubuntu on the cebit next year
<juliux> so it would be nice if we have there a little flyer about edubuntu
<juliux> has any body a little flyer about edubuntu?
<mhz> we will
<mhz> juliux: have you contacted Marketing team?
<mhz> juliux: i am working on one
<mhz> in spanish, thou
<juliux> mhz, great
<mhz> but i may translate it once is finished
<mhz> and then wiki it, of course
<juliux> mhz, if there is a english that is ok
<mhz> yup
<mhz> and Yagisan may work on the Japaneese version
<juliux> mhz, do you have a link to the flyer?
<mhz> and maybe you on a Plat version?
<mhz> not yet
<mhz> but it will be ready on tuesday
<mhz> (unless my wife lets me work on them today aftert lunch)
<juliux> mhz, ok
<Yagisan> mhz: You would need to ask my wife for a  version. I'm still waiting for my website translations! (she doesn't have much free time)
<juliux> mhz, still we have enough time to work on it
<mhz> yup
<mhz> but not me
<mhz> I have a small stand at a Video seminar. I am helping www.cdsl.cl with spreading Freedom of access to IT
<mhz> and next saturday, install fest
<Yagisan> hmm, my googling indicates glx *should* do what I want
* mhz whishes hwe could get Conference Pack real soon
<mhz> cool!
<juliux> mhz, i got an email that my conference pack are send out
* Yagisan is off to fire up a terminal and see if glx is there
<mhz> please do analize pros and cons and wiki it CCed
<mhz> :)
<mhz> juliux: I have not received any mail for the last 3 days.
<mhz> So i have no expctations :(
<juliux> ok
<mhz> actuall, juliux I have not received any mail saying they have received my requests
<juliux> mhz, do you have e-mailed jane slibs?
<mhz> yup, twice
<mhz> and someone else JaneW suggested
<juliux> ok
<mhz> well, I gotta get back to doing the cleaning
<mhz> BBL
<mhz_cleaning> juliux: d'u have a wiki page of yourself?
<juliux> mhz_cleaning, hm not really
<juliux> mhz_cleaning, i have on wiki.ubuntu.com
<juliux> mhz_cleaning, i will work on my wiki site
<mhz_cleaning> hehe. thx
<mhz_cleaning> and people you evangelize will find usefull to read more about you
<juliux> mhz_cleaning, i work on it
<juliux> mhz_cleaning, check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JuliusBloch to see what i have done and will do
<Yagisan> I need to get some rest - night all
<juliux> ogra, i have a question about the schooltool, who can i access the tool?
<ogra> juliux, http://ip-of-the-server:7080/ click login, username "manager", pass "schooltool"
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<ogra> ip-of-the-server can be localhost on ltsp servers
<juliux> ogra, and i get from littlepaul a link to http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010
<ogra> *sigh* 
<ogra> i get it once a week...
<littlepaul> juliux, ogra allready knows this link :) 
<ogra> we cant support software written in gambas
<ogra> :)
<juliux> ogra, why?
<ogra> and it does work only with tcp based X connections
<juliux> ogra, ist gambas not free
<ogra> juliux, because i wont be the one to bring gambas to main 
<juliux> ogra, ah ok
<ogra> and obody else will... 
<ogra> *nobody
<ogra> if it would be written for ssh based X i probably would think about it ...
<ogra> but for now i put my hopes in getting people to help with student-control-panel
<littlepaul> ogra, could we try this student-control-panel in essen?
<ogra> surte
<juliux> ogra, ok that i don't knwo
<ogra> -t
<juliux> ogra, in essen we will have a local mirror so we can install everything we want
<ogra> littlepaul, there is also a bzr archive, in case you know someone who wants to contribute code http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<juliux> ogra, you can ask some of the gnome people in germany
<ogra> juliux, lets see how far i am with: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<ogra> we could probably demo it
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> ogra, in essen we also have to talk about my development
<ogra> what do you want to develop ?
<ogra> every line of code is appreciated :)
<juliux> ogra, i don't know, you and \sh said that i should develop something
<littlepaul> ogra, juliux is right the gnome people could help
<ogra> littlepaul, sure
<juliux> ogra, they want to do more for education
<ogra> yay
<juliux> ogra, for the start i want to do something little not do diffcult
<juliux> difficult
<juliux> ogra, what i want to do is to hack on the gdm or where ever so i can reset the home dir's
<ogra> you mean ldm ?
<juliux> yes it if it ldm i will do it there
<juliux> ogra, but i need to reset the home dirs
<ogra> ldmsupports custom commands for login in dapper, just create a package with a script, that sets the custom command and installs it in the chroot ...
<ogra> make this script reset the homedir ...
<littlepaul> are there any specs for student-control-panel? I didn't found anything about this tool
<juliux> ogra, i think that i must reset if you log out and not if you log in
<ogra> littlepaul, working name is TeachersPet 
<ogra> juliux, sure ... why should the position where you put the script in the wrapper be a problem ...
<juliux> ogra, there is no problem
<ogra> in any case you need to wrap /etc/X11/XSession 
<ogra> you can call your script before or after this in the wrapper
<juliux> ogra, ok i will try to make it over chrismas
<\sh> ah development of edubuntu :)
<juliux> \sh, right
<juliux> ogra, do you have time to develop something else?
<arkan0x> mhz_cleaning, 
<arkan0x> mhz_cleaning, ! 
<arkan0x> mhz_cleaning, ping 
<mhz_cleaning> re
<juliux> hi mhz_cleaning 
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> juliux: is it me or you have not slept in a big while
<mhz> ogra: are you awake?
<juliux> mhz, what does you mean?
<juliux> mhz, here it is now 21:00
<mhz> juliux: oooh
<mhz> I thought it was later
<juliux> mhz, no we have here utc +1
<mhz> ogra: ping?
<arkan0x> mhz, ping !
<mhz> arkan0x: yohoo
<mhz> juliux: are un the process of becomming part of the community?
<mhz> un = you in 
<juliux> mhz, yes i will try it on the next meeting
<mhz> cool!
<juliux> mhz, i don't know if it is engough i have done 
<mhz> it feels good to know well commited people
<mhz> did you edit your launchpad? GPG key and all?
<juliux> mhz, yes of course
<mhz> ok
<juliux> mhz, i have uploaded my gpg key, the signed coc
<mhz> cool
<juliux> and i have updated my wiki site
<mhz> i saw
<mhz> indeed
<juliux> mhz, what i have also to do?
<mhz> wait
<juliux> ok
<mhz> :D
<mhz> i am also waiting
<mhz> tuesday, isnt' it?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> and i will be there
<mhz> mee to
<mhz> mee I still can't understand why I missed previous meeting
<juliux> i see
<mhz> I had no idea there wwas a meeting then
<mhz> hey... Oktoberfest!
<mhz> isnt that tomorrow?
<juliux> no Tuesday
<juliux> 22.11
<juliux> today is 20.11
<mhz> ooh
<juliux> here it is 20.11
<mhz> here is 20th too
<juliux> ok
* mhz does not drink anyways :)
<juliux> mhz, i hope i have made engough to become a member
<mhz> i don't know the prisma they use to evaluate
<mhz> I hope i am doing well so far, too
<juliux> hehe
* mhz is back to edubuntu work (1 talk 1 brouchere 1 translation of manifesto)
<ogra> juliux, not really
<ogra> mhz, pong
<mhz> ogra: there is a www.ubuntu.cl here
<mhz> but
<mhz> I have never head of them collaborating in # irc
<mhz> mainly, they have a LUG
<juliux> ogra, do you know somebody who can develop a image on a thinclient which auth with a smartcard and than opens a session from an server in the internet?
<mhz> and once in a while, they do something
<mhz> ogra: however, it is just forum stuff
<mhz> ogra: will it be positive or negative for my Communtiy approval on ML and LoCo team? 
<ogra> juliux, smartcard auth is on my list for dapper+1, thats very non-trivial, you want a good programmer for this who has execllent knowledge about ubuntu LTSP and smartcards
<juliux> ogra, he will paid the development and he didn't will wait until dapper+1
<juliux> ogra, and he will not use ltsp
<mhz> oh
<juliux> ogra, the guy ist thomas uhl
<ogra> juliux, how does he want to authentiacte a thin client without using a ltsp server ? 
<juliux> ogra, no idea
<ogra> thin clients have no disks
<juliux> ogra, he will make a flashimage on the thinclients
<ogra> they need a server to boot and for the root filesys
<juliux> ogra, yes and this server will be in the internet
<ogra> so he wants half thick clients ...
<juliux> yes
<juliux> he will use this for schools
<ogra> nice ...
<ogra> but sadly i'm swamped with work ... no chance 
<juliux> ogra, ok
<ogra> even it would be a very intresting project
<juliux> it was only an idea because i don't know someonelse
<juliux> ogra, it will be opensource
<mhz> juliux or free as in freedom?
<mhz> :)
<juliux> free
<mhz> cool
<mhz> and betta
<juliux> he develop every thing under the gpl
<mhz> ogra: so? will that be better or worse for my intentions?
<ogra> try getting in contact with them...
<ogra> the council will aks if you know each other
<juliux> ogra, i hope that we get some thinclients form thomas uhl
<ogra> do i need to know him ? since you mention his name this often ? 
<juliux> ogra, he is a german mark
<ogra> hmm...
<juliux> ogra, not so much money but engough money
* ogra is not really familiar with the german linux business scene
<juliux> ogra, but the problem is that he said very much but if you want something from him you have to remember him very often to do it
<mhz> juliux: that happens every where
<juliux> mhz, i know
<mhz> ogra: I am trying to get one of their emails. they are located in a different region, thou
<mhz> actually, they have not participated in the Install Fests here in Santiago (capital)
<mhz> I guess they do well where they lie
<mhz> live
<mhz> and of course the idea is to work all together
<mhz> re
<mhz> I had a power failure
<mhz> strusberg: hey mon
<mhz> boo
<mhz> strusberg: hey mon
<strusberg> Hi
<mhz> how's it going
<mhz> how's it goingI have good news
<mhz> I have good news
<strusberg> mhz: About Edubuntu-Venezuela?
<mhz> one of the TV channels have contacted me to show Ubuntu an Edubuntu on TV
<mhz> nope
<mhz> Actually, I am bit dissapointed with the person who is "helping" me
<strusberg> mhz:Good news!!
<mhz> She got an email from me on Wednesday
<strusberg> mhz: Umm? why?
<mhz> On thursday i called her and she told me that she had handed all to the embajador
<mhz> and on friday, I got email from her asking me to fax (my email) to the embaasador
<mhz> I really can't understand these slow/non-clever procedure
<mhz> why fax an email?
<mhz> strusberg_: it's like me asking you to fax me cuaima code
<mhz> :D
<mhz> anyways, I'll have to fax it first thing on monday
<mhz> however, they do not have budget for that, AFAIK
<strusberg_> mhz: Fax, About forum invitation?
<mhz> fax the exact mail you got from me
<mhz> the one I explain why i need to get to venezuela
<strusberg_> mhz: Sure give me your fax number and your credit card to fax you the code :-D
<mhz> ehhehehe
<mhz> exactly
<mhz> simply nonsense
<mhz> or ignorance about simple modern procedure
<mhz> boo
<strusberg_> mhz: Tell me about TV interview
* mhz hopes you are not faxing me the code
<mhz> it is a tv show for teens
<mhz> on the 3rd most popular channel
<mhz> I have to prepare a demo for it, and we'll set a date
<mhz> as I said in my email... IT IS THE TIME for Freedom!
<mhz> there's huge interests on both sides
<mhz> (propietary and free tech.)
<mhz> and there's more conciousness
<mhz> not much
<mhz> but definately more than a year ago
<mhz> so it is time to become a bit more agressive
<mhz> on evagelisation
<strusberg_> mhz: About Freedom, check this link http://www.bozzetto.com/freedom.htm
<mhz> There is much conciousness on the need to improve education
<mhz> and there are more people accepting the fact that we gotta do someting
<mhz> WOW!!!!!!!!
<mhz> pretty cool!
<mhz> unfortunately in Flash, IIRC
<mhz> Flash is still not free
<strusberg_> mhz: Yes. :-(
<mhz> I am getting info to desing a plan to evangelise young school students to participate in Freedom
<mhz> 1st idea is to offer them prizes for contributions
<mhz> on Graphic artwork
<mhz> made with free IT
<mhz> of course
<mhz> also, offerthem semi scholarships for IT training
<mhz> and their artwork will be published in our CD labels
<mhz> and cd covers
<mhz> so this TV show may be the kick off
<strusberg_> mhz:Do you have ready any course about graphics design using free tools (i.e. Gimp)?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> but i know there must be at leat one out there
<mhz> least
<strusberg_> Now, I am working in one Python programming course for teens. I used GVR (Guido van Robot)
<strusberg_> and some original material.
<strusberg_> The goal was game programming.
<strusberg_> using pygame.
<mhz> strusberg_: i insist.. we should work side by side every day :D
<mhz> strusberg_: you said you created an account on TC wiki?
<strusberg_> mhz: Yes.
<mhz> can you login and see ItLaGroup?
<strusberg_> mzh: Let me check...
<mhz> I am working on ACL now
<strusberg_> mhz: I have not perms to view that page
<mhz> boo
<mhz> can you gimme your NameLastName
<strusberg_> mhz: RicardoStrusberg
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> can you view http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/ItLa/talk ?
<mhz> only Admin can see *Group pages :) , sorry
<strusberg_> Nope :-(
<mhz> ???
<mhz> hmmmm
<strusberg_> mhz: Are you using ACLs in Moin?
<mhz> yup
* mhz checking configs
<mhz> spam was killing us
<mhz> so we decided ACL
<mhz> and Groups
<strusberg_> It is ok. Now this is a common problem in wikis websites...
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> RicardoStrusberg is ok,right
<strusberg_> mhz: Are you give me view rights?
<mhz> #acl ItLaGroup:read,write All:
<strusberg_> mhz:because is not working yet.
<mhz> and you are listed in ItLaGroup
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> maybe cache?
<mhz> let me clean it
<mhz> or can you provide me with a foolish password for your user so I can try
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> are you sure the user exist?
<strusberg_> mhz: Ok.. now my very very secret password, only for your eyes ...: edubuntu :-)
<mhz> hehehehehehehe
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> TC guys can see it and only 2 are admins
<mhz> interesting
<mhz> it was not a cahce problem either
<mhz> cache
* mhz still seeing
<strusberg_> Somebody working in the  Ubuntu Engineer Certification program?
<mhz> not me yet
<strusberg> mhz:Sorry, I have some problems with my WiFi conection :-(
<mhz> np
<mhz> what are you trying to email me?
<mhz> send me?
#edubuntu 2005-11-26
<mhz> strusberg: please visit http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/ItLa/talk
<mhz> strusberg: could you?
<mhz> strusberg_: coudl you?
<mhz> could
<strusberg> mhz: Checking...
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> 2 strusbergs around
<mhz> strusberg: password freedom
<mhz> small detail :D
<mhz> it was either a stupid typo
<mhz> or cache
<mhz> my guess is typo
* mhz needs to help his daughter in the shower
<mhz> ;-)
<strusberg> :-) wrong password
<strusberg> :-(
<mhz> freedom?
<strusberg> yep
<mhz> hmmm
* mhz login in back
<mhz> hmm, weired
<mhz> I am gonna change it
<mhz> user: RicardoStrusberg
<mhz> password: uno
<mhz> please copy/paste
<mhz> in case is typo
* mhz crosses fingers so strusberg can log in
<mhz> and please do change password once you login :)
<mhz> strusberg: could you?
<strusberg> mhz: Not working yet. Maybe some strusberg for this irc is going first :-)
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> but I can do it successfully
<mhz> 4 times, actually
<mhz> strusberg: I guess you copied pasted
<mhz> right?
<strusberg> mhz: Nop
<mhz> could you c/p?
<strusberg> sure
<mhz> thx
<strusberg> idem
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> how about RicardoStrusberg and 'email me my account' ?
<mhz> strusberg: you gotta provide your latinux email thou
<mhz> try that
<strusberg> I tried and I have received this:
<strusberg> Somebody has requested to submit your account data to this email address.
<strusberg> If you lost your password, please use the data below and just enter the
<strusberg> password AS SHOWN into the wiki's password form field (use copy and paste
<strusberg> for that).
<strusberg> After successfully logging in, it is of course a good idea to set a new and known password.
<strusberg> You see? No password.
<mhz> I just did it and I got Mail sent ok
<mhz> (I only provided RicardoStrusberg and strusberg@latinux.org, then pressed email me button)
<strusberg> I got the e-mail but with no password inside.
<mhz> impossible
<mhz> there should be an url to visit
<mhz> and login automatically so you can change your password
<mhz> once loged in
<strusberg> Ok. I forward the e-mail to mhz@tec...
<mhz> perfect
<mhz> I am sorry to be causing you these troubles
<mhz> 1st time i see this
<strusberg> Me too
<mhz> you received it gmail?
<mhz> not in latinux?
<mhz> the email with the password was sent to latinux?
<strusberg> Uhmm
<strusberg> Let me check.
* mhz doesnt have access to postfix logs so he cant check
<strusberg> checking...
<strusberg> mhz: Bingo!!
<mhz> cool
<mhz> maybe it was a typo or cahce
<mhz> cache
<mhz> but I doubt cache because I deleted it on the server side
<mhz> that's why I suggested copy paste for UserName and password
<mhz> col
<mhz> cool
<mhz> strusberg: so you have access to ACL pages for ItLaGroup
<mhz> ?
<strusberg> FYI: Ok. I can view ../talk but no ItLaGroup
<mhz> ofcourse
<mhz> *Group pages are All:   
<mhz> so only Admins can view them
<strusberg> mhz: Ok.
<mhz> the important thing is now you have full access to ItLa pages
<mhz> and from monday on, you'll have access to revert as well
<mhz> strusberg: i gotta take care of my daughter for a while and be back
<strusberg> mhz: What do you think about ItLA+Ebuntu EngineerCertification
<mhz> what do you think my opinion is?
<mhz> however, I'd say Ubuntu. (Edubuntu is just a flavour + very socially oriented)
<mhz> Edubuntu is LTSP flavoured + some admin basic knowledge
<mhz> hence, it is indeed a good idea to get training
<mhz> but I doubt it is 'engeneer' qualified :)
<mhz> unless, of course there are more issues that provide that extra that the word engeneer gives.
* mhz_family BBL
<mhz_family> strusberg: if possible, wiki a personal page :)
<mhz_family> arkan0x: ping
<arkan0x> mhz_family, pong
<mhz> re
<mhz> arkan0x: quien va manana?
<arkan0x> no sep mhz 
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> y como sera coordinado quienes iran?
<arkan0x> se supone ke los ke puedan van , osea por horario de oficina todos podrian ir despues de la 7
* arkan0x is away: wueando con ghemical 1.91.. xD!
<arkan0x> XD
* arkan0x is back (gone 00:00:13)
* arkan0x is away: ghemical 1.91.. xD!
<mhz> ya, y desde que hora deberia haber gente?
<mhz> Burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> mhz, pong
<mhz> hi there
<mhz> I got a small prob.
<Burgundavia> ok
<mhz> I have no clue how to edit the SVG files regarding the clarifying notes you stated
<Burgundavia> you don't know how to word it?
<mhz> I mean, I can't seem to find the way to edit texts in the 'circle'
<mhz> all horizontal texts, no prob.
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> jsut a sec, let me try
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> but
<mhz> you should try the files in EdubuntuCd... redirecting
<mhz> the new page does not have any svg
<mhz> and yes, I decided to give a more universal name to it
<mhz> esp. because juliux pointed that label was more suitable.
<Burgundavia> it is not text
<Burgundavia> it is has traced to shapes
<mhz> no clue how to deal with it
<Burgundavia> did you create that svg?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> We usually work: I propose the design and Pablo does it
<mhz> and re-propose
<Burgundavia> you need to get the original svgs from him
<mhz> those are not original?
<Burgundavia> I think they have been prepared for printing
<Burgundavia> or something
<mhz> ok,
<mhz> I'll ask him
<mhz> the good thing it that it was made 100% in Inkscape
<mhz> (free as in freedom) :D
<mhz> thx for checking
<Burgundavia> I think that is what it is
<DaBass> is there a edubuntu distro on internet?
<DaBass> i don't mean iso
<Burgundavia> what do you mean?
<Burgundavia> "on the internet">
<Burgundavia> ?
<DaBass> i maen mirror where i could poit to to do netinstall
<DaBass> does anybody know how to do netinstall
<DaBass> ?
<DaBass> burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> yep?
<DaBass> can you help with pcmcia?
<Burgundavia> might
<DaBass> doring boot i get pcmcia not pressent
<DaBass> i have ethernet card in pcmcia
<DaBass> it has worked untill i did apt-get dist-upgrade
<DaBass> it worked untill i did apt-get dist-upgrade
<DaBass> do you know what could be wrong?
<Burgundavia> sorry, nope
<Burgundavia> file a bug
<DaBass> do you know something about the netinstall
<mhz> i have done it
<DaBass> how?
<mhz> DaBass: how are you doing it?
<DaBass> well throug debian bootdisks
<mhz> hmm
<DaBass> and debootstrap that did not work
<mhz> have you tried netbooting but via HD?
<DaBass> then i did basic install of debian and did the apt-get dist-update
<DaBass> but now my pcmcia dont work
<DaBass> no
<DaBass> how
<mhz> I mean: Editing grub to give options to boot from net (other box that contains CD or iso)?
<DaBass> no i am listenning
<mhz> PCMCIA will not work for boot time, afaik
<mhz> ok, let me get you the url i used
<mhz> what OS do you have in current machine you wanna install?
<DaBass> cripled edubuntu
<DaBass> ;-)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> and what do you want there?
<DaBass> well i would like to make this notebook so kids could pay with it
<DaBass> it might not even work
<DaBass> *play
<mhz> DaBass: so you have edubuntu on it already?
<DaBass> well kind of
<mhz> only PCMCIA not working?
<DaBass> i did the install of debian and then did the distribution update
<DaBass> yep
<mhz> uhhh
<mhz> does that laptop boot from Cd/
<mhz> ?
<DaBass> and while booting it stops 4 times and sais something about dma timeout
<DaBass> no
<DaBass> it has no cdrom
<mhz> ok, mine neither
<DaBass> while it was debian it worked ok
<mhz> so from Debian you moved to edubuntu?
<DaBass> yep
<mhz> oh, i see
<mhz> and what procedure you followed to do the 'migration'? any wiki doc?
<DaBass> it was the process : i instaled simple debian and wanted to instal edubuntu over it by apt-get distr-update
<DaBass> wait
<DaBass> not exactly folowed but: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=86962
<mhz> check this out while I read your url :)
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Installation/FromAnotherDistro
<DaBass> i didnot read the one i gave you through, i got to the midle of second page where it sais it could be posible ;-)
<DaBass> but my friend told me, he did it, to look it up
<mhz> I have not installed ubuntu or edubuntu from debian, but I did install editing Grub and making it boot from a server (TFTP)
<DaBass> but you said it won't take pcmcia right?
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Installation/Netboot
<DaBass> i have tried the debootstrab from debian installation as it sais here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/WithFloppies?highlight=%28install%29
<mhz> right
<mhz> I have never made it via PCMCIA because it is loades after soem steps
<DaBass> but it did not work
<mhz> steps which I cant get to
<DaBass> besides is there a mirror for edubuntu?
<mhz> yup but edubunt does not provide netboot
<mhz> only ubuntu does
<mhz> neither kubuntu
<DaBass> what cant u get to?
<mhz> to previous loading so  PCMCIA boots ok
<mhz> so I ended up using
<mhz> TFTP booting
<DaBass> ok i missed the first sentence
<DaBass> why is there no mirror for edubuntu/kbuntu?
<mhz> there is
<mhz> but not for netboot
<mhz> edubuntu and kubunt are just desktop settings flavors
<mhz> so the mirror is ubuntu 
<DaBass> well i am going try the debootstrap again
<mhz> ok
<DaBass> well 2 days ago i knew almost nothing about linux install now i am getting better
<DaBass> ;-)
<mhz> hehhe
<mhz> congrats
<mhz> keep up the good work
<mhz> however, AFAIK, debootstrap is longer way than netbooting using th elast url
<DaBass> but you said it doesnt work with pcmcia
<mhz> yup
<mhz> ohhh
<mhz> tight
<mhz> right
<mhz> no other eth0 but PCMCIA?
<mhz> is your HD partitioned?
<mhz> IIRC, you could also install from within the HD if it is already partitioned
<DaBass> it has 1.5 giga
<mhz> so, you simply edit your bootloader (grub) and...
<mhz> oh
<mhz> :D
<DaBass> ;-)
<mhz> you can't install edubuntu on it
<DaBass> it maight not even work
<DaBass> it just good experience
<mhz> you may try DamnSmallLinux
<DaBass> not whole but part at least
<mhz> it is only 50 MB
<mhz> and it's quite excellent
<DaBass> it has X?
<mhz> yup!
<mhz> it is excellent!
<mhz> esp. for cases like yours
<DaBass> what about all those educational programs and games?
<DaBass> i am newbe to linux remeber
<DaBass> ;-)
<mhz> plus, it also installs its Hardware database. So if you install it to a HD on a different pc, then you change the HD to pc #2 and it will automatically recognize new hardware
<mhz> all those applications (depending on how much space you have left) can be manually installed
<mhz> they are in debian and so is D.S.L
<mhz> edubuntu is= Ubuntu + LTSP + set of edu applications
<DaBass> sounds more realistic
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> I promise yo wont regret it
<DaBass> ok
<DaBass> i am gonna try
<mhz> and is rthere any chance you can take the HD out?
<DaBass> well might be
<mhz> and coulkd you place it onto a diff laptop that boots from CD?
<DaBass> why i can't install dsl over net either?
<DaBass> too much hasle ;-)
<mhz> you could
<mhz> but remember
<mhz> that in order to make PCMCIA work
<mhz> some modules need to get loaded first
<mhz> and that is not possible AFAIK, unless we're talking about an already installed OS
<mhz> not a "about to install" one
<DaBass> ;-)
<DaBass> well the debian bootdisks load everithing to make pcmcia work so did slackware
<mhz> yup
<mhz> because they install from scratch
<mhz> so will gentoo
<mhz> ubuntu is not made for such purposes
<mhz> not from scratch
<DaBass> so lets say i am in middle of debian instalation which is loaded in memory right?
<mhz> depends
<DaBass> i can switch to console
<mhz> yup
<DaBass> what can i doo from there?
<mhz> hmmm very little
<DaBass> ;-)
<mhz> it only a busy box
<mhz> maybe from Gentoo
<mhz> you'll be able to do much more
<mhz> in that phase
<mhz> Gentoo is a installable OS and a powerfull command line LiveCD
<DaBass> i need something that works out of floppy
<mhz> debian from scratch
<mhz> maybe even D.S.L
<mhz> why not trying booting and installing from HD?
<DaBass> but how?
<mhz> hmm, let me get ya an url
<mhz> meantime: theory says, edit grub and tell it to boot from an iso in your HD partition (different from the one grub is)
<mhz> well I had this http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Installation/HardDriveAndPcmcia
<mhz> now, let me get the one from HD
<DaBass> ok
<mhz> DaBass: I am falling asleep :)
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> I do remember in Debian.org there is a doc to install from HD
<mhz> DaBass: I hope you get it working
<mhz> good night
<redbass> hi 
<redbass> aninoe can help me?
<redbass> i have problem vith ltsp
<redbass> i install the last ver of edubuntu
<redbass> and i start my terminals....
<redbass> but i try to write the login end pwd ... but the keyboard don't work...
<redbass> what i can do?
<jark> hello
<jark> can i ask a question here?
<jark> i got a problem with my edubuntu installation, it won't login after the ltsp-boot is there any way to troubleshoot this?
<jark> hello, anyone here?
<Yagisan> G'day jark, what's up ?
<jark> well i have a problem with the ltsp login in edubuntu
<jark> and i can't seem to find the problem
<Yagisan> jark - can you log in from a client ?
<jark> no thats the problem :S i can login perfectly on the server itself, and the client boots via pxe and gets the graphic screen and all. but when i try to login it just goes back to the login screen
<jark> i tried booting it again a couple of times too
<Yagisan> on the server run "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" then reboot the client and try again
<jark> ok i'll try
<jark> lol it works!!! thank you very much
<Yagisan> your welcome jark
<mhz> hi
<JaneW> Yagisan: lol, I read that as 'your(sic) welcome jerk'
<JaneW> I was going to remind you of our CoC ;)
<JaneW> hi mhz
<mhz> Yagisan: hey, I forgot to ask...was the delivery process ok for your wife?
<jark> lol thats my first name
<JaneW> mhz: has marilize got back to you yet?
<mhz> hi JaneW 
<mhz> nope
<mhz> but Jane Silber did
<JaneW> mhz: yes I saw that
<JaneW> mhz: I spoke to marilize today and asked her to get on it, and she said she would...
<mhz> I am crossing my fingers so I can get that ASAP :)
<mhz> JaneW: thx for that support
<mhz> JaneW: I have interesting news
<juliux> hi mhz 
<mhz> I have been asked to talk about Ubuntu/Edubuntu and Free access to knowledge on a TV show (for teens)
<mhz> juliux: hi Mr. almos community :D
<mhz> juliux: hi Mr. almost community :D
<JaneW> mhz: wow, awesome!
<juliux> mhz, do you mean me?
<JaneW> mhz: you must get the footage for us - if you can...
<Yagisan> G'day mhz, wife came home today
<mhz> JaneW: indeed. I am preparing material for that now
<JaneW> Yagisan: did she have another baby?
<Yagisan> JaneW: YES!!!
<mhz> JaneW: footage?
<JaneW> Yagisan: wow, congrats!
<mhz> juliux: yup. Aren't we both waiting for tomorrow's meeting?
<juliux> mhz, yes we do
<JaneW> Yagisan: to both of you. That makes 2 now right?
<mhz> Yagisan: i am very happy for yu 2
<mhz> Yagisan: i am very happy for you 4, actually
<JaneW> Yagisan: boy or girl?
<Yagisan> JaneW: Yep, baby number two, thanks
* JaneW grins
<Yagisan> JaneW: Boy
<mhz> Yagisan: another freedom warrior
<JaneW> I love babies
<JaneW> cool!
<Yagisan> JaneW: Didn't you see the topic ?
<mhz> I love my babies over someone else's :D
* Yagisan looks for the dancing Yagisan smilie :)
<mhz> JaneW: what you mean by footage for us?
<JaneW> mhz: the TV covereage
<JaneW> Yagisan: oops no sorry ;)
<mhz> ooh, I'll do my best
<JaneW> mhz: see photo of my boy from the friday 'garduation' http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/65454879/
<JaneW> ack 'Graduation' I meant
<mhz> JaneW: in some cultures he'll be in process of becoming a wiser man :)
<jsgotangco> hello all
<juliux> mhz, Yagisan JaneW what do you think lightscribe edubuntu cds or print on them?
<mhz> JaneW: he looks happy. Now, you wont even notice when he asks to have his own flat :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi there
<jsgotangco> how's things?
<JaneW> juliux: lightscribe?
<mhz> juliux: IMHO, the quality is important but freedom is much more important :)
<Yagisan> JaneW: it's a laser etching on the cd
<JaneW> mhz: hehe, yes it is a nice photo
<jsgotangco> laser etching
<JaneW> Yagisan: oic, I think they are usually silkscreened...
<jsgotangco> hehe
<juliux> JaneW, http://www.lightscribe.com/use/winterholidays.aspx?id=226 there a exampls
<jsgotangco> ain't that too much
<Yagisan> juliux: what's cheaper ?
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco, how's you new job?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: awesome, i'm allowed to play games at work tee hee
<mhz> juliux: what is more affordable for you ?
<juliux> Yagisan, http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messe_Ideen there is table
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i've just ubuntu-fied the whole office
<mhz> jsgotangco: you rock!
<juliux> Yagisan, oh sorry it is only german, wait a moment i will translate the table
<jsgotangco> 3 of 5 servers now run breezy
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool and cooler!
<mhz> jsgotangco: ooops
<mhz> jsgotangco: ubuntu domination? :d
<jsgotangco> sort of
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> too bad we don't have linux mobile phones
* jsgotangco works in a mobile game company now
<mhz> oooh
<mhz> I envy ya
<mhz> :)
<JaneW> lightscribing looks cool
<Yagisan> juliux: If I understand it, lightscribe costs more
<jsgotangco> mhz: its not really fun all the time
<jsgotangco> mhz: you're forced to play crappy games even
<mhz> JaneW: indeed, but don't that ask you to use propietary IT?
<juliux> Yagisan, that is so not right
<Yagisan> juliux: which looks better ?
<mhz> jsgotangco: hehehehe
<juliux> Yagisan, lightscribe is only b/w
<juliux> Yagisan, printed is color
<juliux> Yagisan, we will make this cds just in time on the fairs in germany
<mhz> juliux: I like lightscribe idea but I have my concerns regarding potential restrictions. Are there any ?
<juliux> mhz,  i don't know
<juliux> mhz, but lightscribe only works with windows
<Yagisan> juliux: lightscribe is cheaper ? I was looking at "Kosten pro CD/DVD", lightscribe is 0.90, normal is 0.42
<juliux> Yagisan, 0.42 is without printing
<juliux> Yagisan, check total cost
* Yagisan is whacking page through google translate
<juliux> Yagisan, i have translate the page now
<juliux> Yagisan, the important things
<Yagisan> juliux - why does lightscribe need windows ?
<juliux> Yagisan, because you write with the cd burner on the other side of the blank cd
<Katsumoto> hmm I have a question..I'd like to access my other computer downstairs, but when I double click on the edubuntu server (Samba, Ubuntu) (Edubuntu) icon in MShome I have to give a password...
<juliux> Yagisan, and that what i have read is that it at the moment only possible with nero
<mhz> juliux: then my humble vote is NOT fro lightscribe
<mhz> fro =for
<juliux> mhz, that was clear
<Katsumoto> any1 know which password I need in order to access my edubuntu computer via windows ?
<mhz> Katsumoto: I have never used Samba yet (only Linux environments :) ) but I guess it is a protocol feature. Passwords are supposed to be more secure ;)
<mhz> juliux: hehehe, sorry to be that "extremist"
<juliux> mhz, normaly i also think so
<Katsumoto> yeh oke, but that username/password should be the same as my login when I log on to edubuntu?
<juliux> mhz, i have no skype installed because it isn't free 
<mhz> juliux: in the history of humankind, Freedom has ALWAYS come with a price
<Yagisan> Katsumoto: have you tried a blank password ?
<Katsumoto> nope
<mhz> I am happy to pay for freedom, evethough sometime I look around and feel tempted with more beautiful features.
<Katsumoto> won'tdon't work
<Katsumoto> dwont work*
<Katsumoto> lol
<mhz> Katsumoto: if that doesn't work, assign guindows a password
<mhz> jehehehe
<Katsumoto> lol :P
<Yagisan> Katsumoto: K, try you edubuntu username/password
<mhz> and then retry
<Yagisan> All, is samba set up by default onder edubuntu ?
<Yagisan> s/onder/under
<mhz> hmmm, I guess
<mhz> it's ubuntu in the end :)
<Katsumoto> nope edubunto usr/pass won't work either
<Yagisan> mhz, in "ubuntu" samba is not set up by default
<Katsumoto> hm
<mhz> oohhh
<Yagisan> if it isn't set up, that would explain why Katsumoto can't log in
<mhz> Yagisan: are you 100% sure? 
<Katsumoto> yeh
<Katsumoto> I'll check if it's installed.
<mhz> IIRC, once you connect a Guindows and Ubuntu, they both talk nicely
<Yagisan> mhz: 99% - I haven't deployed samba since I switched from debian
<mhz> and Ubuntu sees Guindows partitions
<mhz> well, maybe i was drunk
<mhz> :)
<Yagisan> Is the samba smbpasswd file populated with the edubuntu login names and passwds ?
<Yagisan> if it is, then it should work "out of the box"
<mhz_cooking> yup, u're right. I haven't checked thou
<juliux> Yagisan, that could be but you can also make extra passwords
* mhz_cooking BBL
<mhz_cooking> JaneW: and thx again for helping me get what we need here
<Yagisan> juliux: Of course - I'm just curious about how is is configured by default in edubuntu
<juliux> Yagisan, hm wait a moment i will take a look into the smb.conf
<Yagisan> btw juliux, perhaps lightscribe isn't a good idea, if we can make it under linux. It would suck to be asked "how did you make this ?" and have to say Windows
<Yagisan> s/can make/can't make/
<juliux> Yagisan, i know
<mhz_cooking> it would mean that our manifesto sucks
<Yagisan> juliux: but if you could reverse engineer it, it would be cool :)
<mhz_cooking> lol
<mhz_cooking> hacking lightscribe
<mhz_cooking> hacking lightscribe
<mhz_cooking> hacking lightscribe
<mhz_cooking> hacking lightscribe
<mhz_cooking> hacking lightscribe
<juliux> # This boolean parameter controls whether Samba attempts to sync the Unix
<juliux> # password with the SMB password when the encrypted SMB password in the
<juliux> # passdb is changed.
<juliux> ;   unix password sync = no
<juliux> # For Unix password sync to work on a Debian GNU/Linux system, the following
<juliux> # parameters must be set (thanks to Augustin Luton <aluton@hybrigenics.fr> for
<juliux> # sending the correct chat script for the passwd program in Debian Potato).
<mhz_cooking> hehehe
<juliux>    passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u
<juliux>    passwd chat = *Enter\snew\sUNIX\spassword:* %n\n *Retype\snew\sUNIX\spassword:* %n\n .
<juliux> # This boolean controls whether PAM will be used for password changes
<juliux> # when requested by an SMB client instead of the program listed in
<juliux> # 'passwd program'. The default is 'no'.
<juliux> ;   pam password change = no
<juliux> Yagisan, i read it so that there is no sync to the unix password
<juliux> Yagisan, i read it so that there is no sync to the unix passwords
<Yagisan> yep - seems to be not configured
<juliux> other opinions?
<jsgotangco> im going back later
<jsgotangco> brb
<juliux> has some on of you tested ControlAulas ?
<Yagisan> juliux: I think that while samba is running, it is probably only appearing in the network browse lists
<Yagisan> juliux: most likely need to tell samba who the authorised users are, or enable guest access
<juliux> Yagisan, if i find time i will build up here a little test network to play with the edubuntu server much more
<Yagisan> Katsumoto: try username Guest with no password
* Yagisan needs to find more time too
<juliux> cool http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010 this i will test on our first fair where we have more than one client
<Yagisan> Can anyone suggest any nice online C tutorials ?
<juliux> Yagisan, puh, i have only books here about c
<juliux> Yagisan, there was a time where i have very much money and by every book i want
<juliux> s/by/buy
<Yagisan> juliux: I had a time like that - it was 2BC
<juliux> Yagisan, 2BC ?
<Yagisan> 2 years Before Children
<juliux> Yagisan, ah
<juliux> Yagisan, by me it was the time befor study
<Yagisan> I am a low level x86 asm programmer - I'd like to learn C now
<juliux> Yagisan, if you are a student and work in a week 5-10hours for 25 you have very much money
<juliux> Yagisan, hehe i didnt love asm very much
<Yagisan> brb - baby
<juliux> ok
<Katsumoto> ehm no didn't work either
<Katsumoto> I can enter everything else
<Katsumoto> except the Edubuntu (server)
<Katsumoto> I can't login via windows nor linux
<Katsumoto> tried different usernames/passwords
<Katsumoto> but no luck at all
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> Katsumoto: that seems to be because samba hasn't been configured to know who can access what - so it is set to deny all
<Katsumoto> ah oke..
<Katsumoto> where can this be configured?
<Yagisan> juliux: I loved asm - I like the complete control
<Yagisan> juliux: but I need C for my .debs
<Yagisan> Katsumoto: there is an application called swat - on the edubuntu server you should be able to access it
<Katsumoto> think I just installed that, yes
<Katsumoto> I'll see what I can find out
<Yagisan> by loading http://127.0.0.1:901 in your browser IIRC
<Yagisan> juliux: have you seen the GNU C Programming Tutorial (Edition 4.1) ?
<juliux> Yagisan, no
<juliux> Yagisan, i am no developer
<Katsu2> could you repeat what you said earlier to Katsumoto Yagisan?
<Katsu2> the ip 
<juliux> Yagisan, i can see the code and can understand what it make, and can write little programms
<Yagisan> Katsu: http://127.0.0.1:901 
<Yagisan> Katsu2 ^
<Katsu2> thanks
<Katsu2> the connection was refused
<Yagisan> Katsu2: Then swat isn't enabled either
<Katsu2> hmm let me relog
* Yagisan notices it is 2am
<Yagisan> night all
<juliux> gn8 Yagisan 
<Yagisan> Katsu2: more info on samba is @ www.samba.org
<Yagisan> night'
<Katsu2> thnx 
<Katsu2> good night :) and thanks
<jsgotangco> re
<juliux> wb
<jsgotangco> hey juliux 
<jark> \\\\  
<jark>  '
<admin_> hi
<vzl> hey
<vzl> I need help with switching servers, can anyone help?
<vzl> I have clients that use etherboot and worked on k12ltsp now i want it to work on edubuntu
<vzl> I have clients that use etherboot and worked on k12ltsp now i want it to work on edubuntu
<chang-xi> vzl:They should work just as easily.
<vincenzio> chang-xi: they don't- they get dhcp and then can't continue booting.
<vzl> they say pxelinux.0 is not a valid file.
<vzl> and then they sleep, abort, and then cycle through dhcp again
<chang-xi> vincenzio: My test machine does it with onboard pxe. I will test the etherboot tonight,and report back.meanwhile verify your eth0 & eth1. check your ltsp.conf file if everything is setup right.
<ogra> vzl, make sure you have mknbi (from universe) installed and run sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> (etherboot wasnt tested very much in the last release)
<lucasvo> ogra: problems with ltsp again
<vincenzio> apt-get install mknbi?
<ogra> vincenzio, yes, with universe enabled
<ogra> lucasvo, ?
<lucasvo> ogra: my ltsp.conf isn't changing anything
<ogra> the file is named lts.conf ? 
<vzl> by universe you mean in sources.list?
<ogra> or ltsp.conf
<ogra> vzl, yup
<vzl> doing the update now
<vzl> is this documented anywhere?
<ogra> on the ltsp.org wiki only for now ..
<lucasvo>  http://pastebin.com/435695 < ltsp.conf X screen resolution doesn't work
<ogra> as i said, etherboot didnt recieve much (if any) testing during breezy ... i have a etherboot capable card now to make sure it works for dapper
<vzl> ok, so I installed mknbi and did ltsp-update-kernels.
<vzl> now what?
<ogra> lucasvo, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams
<ogra> lucasvo, use the X
<ogra> _HORZSYNC
<ogra>  and  X_VERTREFRESH values, not X_MODE ... and make sure the file is called lts.conf not ltsp.conf
<ogra> whoops
<ogra> X_HORIZSYNC
<lucasvo> ogra: it is called lts.conf
<ogra> ok
<ogra> just because you kept calling it ltsp.conf
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I find out vertrefresh
<lucasvo> ogra: I copied it and both existed because I didn't knwo the name
<ogra> find some documentation about your monitor
<lucasvo> ogra: I even filed a bug with attached xlog but didn't change yet...
<vzl> ogra, so, etherboot... 
<vzl> ok, so I installed mknbi and did ltsp-update-kernels.
<vzl> what next?
<ogra> does it boot ? 
<vzl> nop
<ogra> :(
<vzl> same message
<ogra> lucasvo, you copied what ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: lts.conf to ltsp.conf
<ogra> lucasvo, it will work if you use the right values ...
<ogra> whats the bugnumber ? 
<vzl> no better ideas?
<chang-xi> vzl: you might try to redo the etherboot disk & see if it has ssh switch settings.
<vzl> no boot disk involved- booting off the rom on a linksys card with an etherboot eeprom
<lucasvo> [Bug 17232]  Problems with xorg, autodetection of MGA 200 and SDM-M51
<vzl> it's a tulip based card
<lucasvo> ogra:       X_HORZSYNC = 75Hz
<lucasvo> ^^ correct?
<ogra> grumble
<ogra> lucasvo, if you talked to me the last 10 mins, you must repeat, my line dropped
<vzl> bah humbug
* vzl despises connection drops
<ogra> vzl, not only you :)
<vincenzio> if etherboot can work, I'm set. 
<vincenzio> if I can't get it going...
<vincenzio> bummer.
<vincenzio> it means these 8 etherboot clients all with the same card in them are stuck.
<lucasvo> ogra: yes I did
<ogra> lucasvo, repeat  then :)
<ogra> vincenzio, do you have any other opportunity, CD or floppy ? then you can use a etherboot image from rom-o-matic, they offer them with PXE emulation
<lucasvo> ogra: I found out that it is wrong by mnyself, I first have to do some research
<ogra> oki
<lucasvo> google is quite slow, isn't it?
<lucasvo> ogra: I have in datasheet horizontal frequency: 28 to 64hz and vertical frequency:48-75hz
<lucasvo> ogra: so what do I need to set?
<vincenzio> ogra: these machines, the bios pays no attention to floppy, no cdrom or hdd installed, so it jumps right to the rom on the ethernet card.
<vincenzio> and they worked with k12ltsp on fedora core1.
<vincenzio> but core1 is ancient.
<vincenzio> edubuntu is so much nicer.
<lucasvo_> crap
<lucasvo_> I have my screen
<lucasvo_> ups
<lucasvo_> s/have/hate/g
<lucasvo_> do you also have problems with screens, that it hangs time-by-time?
<lucasvo> ogra: installing edubuntu-server has deleted my ltsp configs... :(
<lucasvo> ogra: is there a way how to remove ltsp built in server?
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean dhcp?
<ogra> just apt-get remove dhcp3-server ....
<ogra> (this will also remove ltsp-server-standalone, but leave you ltsp-server)
<lucasvo> ogra: ah, I know, it has overwritten my dhcpd.conf so didn't work anymore
<lucasvo> xdmcp      Yes         no        no        kdm    Using: none! < what's wrong, I tried to enable gdm but didn't work
<ogra> we dont use X over tcp in ubuntu/edubuntu
<ogra> xdmcp wont work
<lucasvo> ogra: ah ok
<lucasvo> ogra: is there some ubuntu mirror to get ltsp packages?
<ogra> its in breezy
<lucasvo> so do I need to update ltsp packages in the ltspadmin?
<ogra> eek
<lucasvo> no?
<ogra> dont use ltspadmin with edubuntu
<ogra> that will break *everything*
<lucasvo> ogra: what else?
<lucasvo> ogra: how should I enable portmap, nfs, dhcp?
<ogra> ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone, but not ltspadmin, that the old implementation of ltsp
<ogra> you dont
<ogra> the packages do it for you...
<chang-xi> ogra: why is the edubuntu thinclient bootup sooo much slower than standard ltsp with xdisplay?
<ogra> but if you ever had installed/tried to use both at the same time, your system might be completely broken
<ogra> chang-xi, because we used all the standard bootscripts, and because the autodetection of the X server settings takes about 20 seconds alone (the time classic ltsp needs to boot)
<ogra> the bootscripts will go away in dapper ...
<ogra> as well as most of the hardware detection stuff will be sped up... but the X detection will remain this slow ...
<ogra> current bootime in breezy is ~90 sec ... my local dapper setup here already is at 60 sec ... we'll get to 45 in dapper at release time...
* ogra has to do some shopping ... bbl
<chang-xi> ogra: okay thanks. Will dapper implement schooltool-2006 & TeacherTool?
<ogra> TeacherTool doesnt work with ubuntu ltsp ...
<\sh> ogra: please send me as well all packages which has to be merged from universe for edubuntu...if u need some..thx :)
<chang-xi> ogra: iknow, itried it.
<ogra> chang-xi, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
<ogra> thats what i hope to get ready for dapper (in case enough people help developing it)
<ogra> and indeed we'll have the latest schooltool release included ;)
<ogra> (the latest that was available at upstream version freeze around end of february)
<ogra> s/was/is
<ogra> so if the schooltool guys are fast enough ...
<ajmitch_> ogra: try & get moodle in main this time round? :)
<ogra> would be nice ... but currently my priorities are all ltsp ... if there is time left before UVF we'll get it in
<ogra> but the debconf changes are not trivial...
<chang-xi> the new schooltool-2006 might be just as good as moodle.
<ogra> i havent seen it yet
<chang-xi> They are listing a bunch of new stuff on the website for inclusion in ver 2006
<chang-xi> The only problem with TeacherTool, is that it's using connectd clients via x-display not ssh.
<ogra> and all functions are waved around this ...
<ogra> so the adjustments are nearly a rewrite
<chang-xi> yes , i have been in touch with the author , who might just do that.
<ogra> s-c-p is already dealing with ssh connections, but missing the vnc part and remote execution parts ...
<ogra> and its much more HIG compliant
<ogra> the problem is to get these things to work safely ... the vnc solutions i have sen so far made me run away screaming ...
<chang-xi> ogra: as it stands now, what then is the best way to see who is connected, (connected thinclients)?
<ogra> s-c-p
<chang-xi> do i run it from terminal?
<ogra> its in dapper... as soon as its more usefull than for killing client sessions and showing the procs, i'll ask for a backport
<ogra> nope, it installs in the System menu
<chang-xi> so now, the only way is via ps & see the clients connected ip over ssh?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> you wont see the ip ;)
<chang-xi> I do.
<ogra> not with ltsp
<ogra> only if you have a normal ssh connection...
<chang-xi> i did last night.yes indeed.
<ogra> the ltsp connection has no pty assigned ...
<chang-xi> I will get the code snipit,stndby.
<ogra> so you wont be able to get the ip anywhere .... in dapper we have ESPEAKER set in the environment of the session...
<ogra> since this points to the ltsp client you will be able to see it there
<chang-xi> ogra: try this with clients connected- ps eaxww|grep "bash -c env LTSP_CLIENT"|grep -v grep
<chang-xi> as root
<ogra> nope
<ogra> oh, sorry typo...
<ogra> indeed, this works at least with daper ... i have no breezy around ... but see the s-c-p source ;)
<ogra> *dapper
<ogra> it uses the sae command ...
<ogra> *same
<chang-xi> okay i'll wait for the backport then. thanks
<ogra> i think you can just use the dapper package directly ... its plain python if you want to play with it
<ogra> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/student-control-panel/student-control-panel_0.1_all.deb
<ogra> and feel free to bzr get the bazaar archive from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/ and send patches 
<ogra> ;)
<chang-xi> okay thanks
<the_CName> elo
<the_CName> have you a channel in french language ?!
<ogra> not for edubuntu specific stuff ...
<ogra> but else there is #ubuntu-fr
<the_CName> thanks, but it's more generalist
<the_CName> ok, i've install the edubuntu with LTSP Server ... and i search info to config workstation 
<the_CName> in X station
<ogra> you dont configure the workstation at all... its a thin client server ...
<ogra> all you need to make sure is that the clients boot via PXE and ahve them attached to the server
<the_CName> and if i not PXE but a minimalistic linux with X ?
<ogra> that wont work unless you install the minimal X part from ubuntu ... 
<ogra> ubuntu/edubuntu doesnt use X over tcp but uses ssh tunneling, that wont work with your approach out of the box
<ogra> but if you have a local device to boot rom, i'd suggest wiping the local linux and X from it and install a rom-o-matic PXE bootrom instead 
<ogra> s/to boot rom/to boot from/
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<the_CName> ok
<the_CName> PXE is a rom for ethernet boot, isn't-it ?
<ogra> PXE is a specification from intel ... it replaces the old etherboot mechanism
<ogra> its built in in most of the recent network cards
<littlepaul> i just installed edubuntu-desktopn on breezy and got some dependency errors http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/573
<paolob> Hi gusy! I'm trying to connect to a edubuntu server with a dell pc equipped with a 3com 3c905-txm nic, but when I boot the client diskette (I prepared it myself generating the correct zdsk image) all I get is: "Loading ROM image.." and then a succession of lines saying: "100C AX:0212 BX:2400 CX:0001 DX:0100". What does it mean?
<paolob> thank you!
#edubuntu 2005-11-27
<paolob> Hi guys! I could connect a thin client to the edubuntu server, and I could log in. However, when I log off (from the client), I can't log in anymore. Any hint?
<mhz> hi
<mhz> arkan0x: holas
<arkan0x> mhz, holas !
* mhz is going off
<highvoltage> ogra: hi there
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<ajmitch_> hi JaneW, highvoltage 
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
<juliux> hi JaneW highvoltage ajmitch_ 
<JaneW> hi juliux 
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> hi ajmitch_ 
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<highvoltage> :)
<Burgundavia> JaneW, greetings
<highvoltage> hi burgie
<ajmitch_> this channel is full of greetings tonight
<Burgundavia> I really should be going to bed. It is midnight here
* crimsun extends further greetings
<JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
<juliux> hm here it is 9:30 in the morning
<JaneW> hi crimsun 
<crimsun> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> Burgundavia: how's Canada - cold yet?
<Burgundavia> we don't get snow where I live
<Burgundavia> part of the reason I live here
<Burgundavia> Victoria, not Canada in general
<Burgundavia> JaneW, what is your involvement with LaptopTesting?
<JaneW> Burgundavia: oic
<JaneW> Burgundavia: I am not particularly involved at all
<ajmitch_> darn, I hoped you could get me another laptop ;)
<Burgundavia> JaneW, who at canonical leads that little band of merry men
<Burgundavia> ?
<ajmitch_> claire, isn't it?
<Burgundavia> she did the initial work, I just wondered if she was continuing with the day to day stuff
<JaneW> Burgundavia: mjg59
<Burgundavia> ok
<JaneW> Matthew Garret
<Burgundavia> but I thought Matthew didn't work for you guys
<ajmitch_> I wouldn't think there'd be much day to day stuff to continue with at the moment
<Burgundavia> somewhat
<ajmitch_> just the technical side with mjg59 does
<ajmitch_> morning \sh 
<Burgundavia> I am thinking mostly of the social stuff about getting people involved and keeping them involved
<Burgundavia> defining a clear goal, etc.
<ajmitch_> I didn't hear much after I got the laptop
<ajmitch_> just some reminders on irc to keep the wiki updated
<Burgundavia> ya
<ajmitch_> I'm out of the team for now though :)
<ajmitch_> unless you want me to pull out the old latitude junker
<Burgundavia> is there any value is getting it to work?
<ajmitch_> no, it was working fine with breezy
<ajmitch_> but the latch holding the battery in broke & I'll have to tape/glue it in
* ajmitch_ took it to UDU
<Burgundavia> hmm, new Suse 10.1 alpha 3 screenies
<Burgundavia> nothing much to write home about
<Burgundavia> an odd mix of kde and gnome
* ajmitch_ will hopefully get a new laptop in the next 2-3 weeks
<Burgundavia> I can see why they are pushing for Tango
<ajmitch_> since I'll need it before mid-january & LCA
<Burgundavia> well, night all
<mhz> hi
<mhz> ogra: ping
<mhz> ogra: I got a question
<ogra> mhz, pong
<mhz> There's someone with a DB on linux relate questions (for training)
<mhz> Keduca is default in Edubuntu
<mhz> and moodle will be
<mhz> so, what would you suggest
<mhz> either make them work under Keduca or make them availbale for moodle in the future?
<ogra> i think keduca will stay for a while, but how hard is it to make it available for both ?#
<mhz> don't know much about DB. what should I ask him about? (in order to find out best way)
<ogra> all you will need is a script to convert from one to the other format i guess
<mhz> ok
<mhz> I'll see what Keduca needs
<mhz> ro be feeded
<mhz> ro = to
<mhz> ogra: thx
<ogra> welcome :)
<juliux> ogra, did you get any e-mails from the essener linuxtage?
<ogra> not today, nope
<juliux> ogra, no in the past
<ogra> yes.. 
<juliux> ogra, can you forward it to me? 
<juliux> ogra, they think that you are the one who manag the both
<ogra> heh
<juliux> so the send all e-mails to you and not to me
<ogra> address ?
<juliux> and in the irc they said to me, why you didn't know it, we send you an e-mail
<juliux> juliux@ubuntu-de.org
<ogra> forwarded
<ogra> i guess they meant the kubuntu mail ...
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<ogra> i dont have anything else looking official her
<ogra> e
<juliux> ogra, ok 
<mhz> ogra: hmm, I have a doubt. For EdubuntuSoftwareList, I am trying (am now) to list them as a table. The idea is we can easily see: Application Name, Languages we tried it in for both Audio (when applicable) and Menus, Ages group we can use it, Category we can use it (Mat, Chem, Lang, Biology, etc)
<mhz> ogra: I never thought i'd say this but i guess Moin is not a good candidate for such a table, or is it?
<mhz> :)
<ogra> no idea :) you are the wiki specialist 
<juliux> hi mhz 
<juliux> mhz, we don't will do lightscribe, you need for every cd/dvd 30min
<mhz> juliux: hi
<ogra> ask JaneW, she has a lot experience with huuge wiki tables :P
<mhz> juliux: coool! so freedom will be?
<mhz> ogra: oh, good
<mhz> JaneW: 
<mhz> JaneW: ping
<juliux> mhz, printing on the cd/dvd
<mhz> juliux: good
<juliux> mhz, but there ist no guarantee that it works under linux
<mhz> juliux: why?
<juliux> mhz, at first we have to find someon who will buy such a printer ;)
<ogra> juliux, talk to amu, he uses it under linux afaik
<juliux> mhz, don't aks me ask epson
<mhz> which printer do you need?
<juliux> mhz, i think it will be a epson stylus photo r220
<juliux> mhz, it only cost 99
<ogra> which reminds me, i need to talk to him about selling edubuntu CDs :)
<mhz> is that cheap in Deutschland?
<juliux> mhz, yes that is cheap
<juliux> ogra, you really want this?
<mhz> ogra: he's selling edubuntu cds?
<mhz> :)
* juliux dislike amu
<ogra> juliux, sure, why not ? he has the shop and the equipment to make them professional ...
<ogra> i'm not happy at all with self printed B/W covers and self burned unlabeled CDs
<mhz> ogra: are they easy-to-access CDs?
<juliux> ogra, yes i know
<ogra> mhz, whats "easy-to-access" ?
<mhz> juliux: selling cds is another biz model. it is not a bad idea, as long as the price you charge is 'easy-to-access'
<juliux> ogra, the problem i have with this where is advantage for the community?
<ogra> its about 2 (which is about $2.50)
<mhz> ogra: IMHO easy to access = reasonable prize someone would be happy to pay for, mainly because he'll get good quality
<ogra> juliux, they get CDs 
<juliux> ogra, you also can download it
<ogra> juliux, we are planning a official vendors page for the edubuntu page ... 
<juliux> ogra, i dislike it if there is a person who realise profit with freesoftware
<ogra> and as long as you cant get them through shipit, people lkike amu are important for distributing them in a professional way
<juliux> ogra, in my opinion there is no advantage for edubuntu
<ogra> it was the same with kubuntu, which you couldnt get thrugh shipit
<mhz> juliux: Tecnocimiento biz model includes the idea of returning a % of the profits to the Community Memebers (active ones)
<ogra> juliux, for the many compynys that ask me for pressed CDs its the best alternative
<juliux> ogra, kubuntu is something total differents
<ogra> nope, not at all
<juliux> ogra, it is, because amu develops on kubuntu
<ogra> if we cant ship CDs its our responsibility to make them available somehow ...
<ogra> juliux, this doesnt matter
<juliux> ogra, i think that is matter
<mhz> juliux: oh, so your point is you are against of biz out of work people have not put effort in?
<juliux> mhz, no im against biz if there is no backflow to the community
<mhz> oh, i see your point
<ogra> there is a flowback ...
<juliux> mhz, i have no problems that there are kubuntu cds/dvds in amus shop
<juliux> ogra, where it is?
<juliux> ogra, where is the problem that you burn the cds yourselfe?
<ogra> juliux, people with no access to CD writers and with no opportunity to download get Cds
<mhz> juliux: but unfortunately, that is Ethics issue. Ethics is not specified in "freedom" manifesto.
<juliux> ogra, but you also need an internet access to buy this cds
<ogra> juliux, i work 14h a day, whne should i care about shipping CDs ?
<juliux> ogra, i didn't said that you should to it
<mhz> juliux: hence Tecnocimiento (I lead the small group) will send $% back to community.
<zakame> ogra: waah
<ogra> juliux, sitting in a shag in africa with modem connection i can order them, but cant download
<juliux> hm
<ogra> juliux, and thats the majority of edubuntu users
<ogra> they have no CD writer, have no fast internet access ...
<juliux> anyway i dislike it if there is no backflow to the community, there is some guy who makes money with something he didn't make
<ogra> my main target is to get my CDs to the users ... there amu helps a lot
<juliux> ogra, of course
<mhz> and, in Chile, institutions do prefer professional look over "hand-written" cds
<ogra> juliux, he makes about 0.20  per CD for the time he invests...
<juliux> ogra, klein vieh macht auch mist
<ogra> i dont think he earns *anything* by making the CDs ....
<juliux> ogra, if it so its ok
<mhz> ogra: however, i still do not have funds to have professional cds printed out nor to order from amu :(
<ogra> the money comes from merchandise, not selling CDs
<ogra> mhz, we'll have a bunch of pressed CDs in dapper ...
<juliux> ogra, if i burn a cd and print it cost not more than one euro!
<mhz> ogra: yup, I am pacient (i guess :D )
<ogra> juliux, and packing, labelling and goint to the post office is for free ? 
<ogra> you invest time ...
<mhz> juliux: maybe with the money amu makes from selling he can spend time in contributing to kubuntu ?
<ogra> for example :)
<juliux> mhz, ogra it is something generally not especially for amu
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> well, i dont know
<mhz> I think that we should always encourage biz models around freedom of IT access
<ogra> juliux, its business ...
<juliux> ogra, but there diffrent kinds of business
<ogra> juliux, without business models around free software, we wouldnt be here
<mhz> juliux: how ever, i do agree with you on the fact that we need sustainable development of it
<juliux> ogra, lehmans spend at debian for every debian dvd the sell
<ogra> thats fine, but their decision
<mhz> so we should also encourage more community backflow of profits
<juliux> ogra, and such business is ok for my
<ogra> and be sure, for a 10 dvd pack they still earn more than amu
<juliux> s/my/me
<ogra> even if they give money to debian
<ogra> and why should amu give money to canonical  ? 
<juliux> ogra, not to canoncial
<juliux> ogra, to the foundation
<ogra> the foundation ? haha
<juliux> ogra, or to the community or something else
<juliux> ogra, yes i think so
<juliux> ogra, the foundation needs money in the future
<juliux> i think
<ogra> as long as canonical exists, the foundation wont do much active work i guess ...
<ogra> since there is no need to ...
<juliux> ogra, it is not my decision who makes edubuntu cds or dvds
<ogra> mine neither, they are freely availale ;)
<ogra> but i like to know my distributors....
<juliux> ogra, i know, but i want to tell my opinion, and yes i knwo that i am a idealist.
<ogra> and amu did a huge amount of work for ubuntu/kubuntu already ...
<mhz> JaneW: ping
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi
<jsgotangco> hello
<juliux> ogra, yes and he is one of the radical kde/kubuntu people in germany
<jsgotangco> mhz: evening m8
<juliux> hi jsgotangco 
<ogra> juliux, whats wrong with this ? 
<mhz> jsgotangco: could you take a look at EdubuntuSoftwareList? 
<juliux> ogra, i will tell it to you in essen
<jsgotangco> sure
* jsgotangco has time
<mhz> jsgotangco: I gotta decide what is simpler to admin/contribute
<ogra> juliux, there are radicals in gnome as well ... 
<jsgotangco> mhz: Active Directory
<juliux> ogra, but not in germany
<mhz> jsgotangco: either table layout or simple listing
* jsgotangco hides
<juliux> ogra, and not such radical
<ogra> juliux, sure there are
<mhz> jsgotangco: ??
<juliux> ogra, who?
<ogra> even more radical
<juliux> ogra, in germany?
<ogra> go to guadec :)
<juliux> ogra, i was there
<ogra> you'll meet germans that are more radical and meet the ones that are less radical ...
<juliux> ogra, who?
<jsgotangco> radigal germans/
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> or pick a random gnome or kde message at heise and look at the forum :)
<juliux> ogra, i was the last years on the fair both of gnome
<mhz> juliux: in Chile people call me "Taliban"
<juliux> ogra, that are only trolls
<ogra> juliux, urban legends have roots, as well as trolls have ....
<jsgotangco> mhz: Celestia can be used for Astronomy
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh i see, admin/contribute is simple via Active Directory :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok.
<juliux> ogra, the point is that amu made a lot for gnome in germany and everybody said thanks amu thanks amu, and at the next point he said gnome is shit 
<ogra> they are only a mirror of the cummunity ...<
<jsgotangco> mhz: although i don't really know if its workable in an ltsp environment
<ogra> and you have the same trolls on both sides
<jsgotangco> (it requires opengl)
<mhz> jsgotangco: but my doubt is oriented to Table v/s Listing
<ogra> juliux, thats politics ... he wants to build a business around KDE ...
<jsgotangco> i like the listing
<jsgotangco> mhz: that looks like wicked moin syntax especially on the toc
<jsgotangco> and the table
<juliux> ogra, and he made it also work for guadec and the foundation said thanks amu, and then hey said no i don't want to make fair both with ubuntu because there are gnome foods
<juliux> ogra, the same with the german ubuntu forum
<jsgotangco> trouble in paradise?
<mhz> jsgotangco: my problem with listing is that so far I'll need to repeat stuff many times
<mhz> :(
<ogra> jsgotangco, germany != paradise :)
* mhz misses DB's there
<juliux> ogra, amu thinks at first on it selfs and the what is the best for the users
<jsgotangco> how cold is 2 deg C?
* jsgotangco sees that seoul temp is less than 10 deg C nowadays
<ogra> juliux, amu wants to build a business arond free software....
<juliux> ogra, and this is i the wrong way if you do publicwork for something, i think
<juliux> ogra, yes but then i have to make business both and not community boths on fairs
<mhz> jsgotangco: cold, very cold but not like antartica
<ogra> thats the only way to do it if you want to earny your life with it ... 
<juliux> ogra, no there is also an other way
* jsgotangco is doing badger badger badger tour asia next week
<juliux> ogra, you can directly speak with the people you need to make something
<ogra> juliux, then you should tell it to the business people who try to make a business around oss
<juliux> ogra, this business people didn't need a free community both on a fair, they paid for it
<jsgotangco> ogra: do you have edubuntu roadmap for dapper online?
* jsgotangco needs it to update his slides
<ogra> juliux, do you really think canonical or ubuntu would exiist without marks money ? look at the existing models
<ogra> jsgotangco, nope, not yet ...
<\sh> juliux: they don't 
<juliux> ogra, i find it totaly ok that there is oss business
<\sh> juliux: redhat goes to big fairs like cebit...but they send only marketing stuff to people who are going to small fairs in their spare time
<ogra> jsgotangco, but the roadmap will only be "breezy +polish polish polish"
<juliux> \sh, but they didn't get a free!!! both!
<ogra> jsgotangco, there wont change much ...
<\sh> juliux: booth...yes they get
<juliux> \sh, but not for free!
<ogra> juliux, sure
<juliux> ogra, where?
<ogra> juliux, as long as they come as fedora
<juliux> ogra, not in the community area
<\sh> juliux: as fedora yes...as redhat no
<ogra> but go to the fedora booth, they will promote redhat
<\sh> juliux: thats why everbody is doing community distros now
<ogra> juliux, and *thats* a unclean business model imho
<juliux> ogra, i didn't said that it is ok
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah i understand the polish thing, but we're still having some new software changes right, but not changes that will break the whole build...
<\sh> juliux: btw..did "ubuntu deutschland e.v." paid any trademark fees, to use ubuntu?
<juliux> but i dislike it if there is somebody who want to make buisness but said it is a free community project
<juliux> \sh, we made a agreement
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'd like to avoid bigger SW changes if possible
<juliux> \sh, we can use it for free but we don't have any rights
<\sh> juliux: see..and others have to pay for the trademark usage :) ... amu is also not using ubuntu on any product he is doing...only kubuntu..and he's using ubuntu only with permission
<juliux> \sh, he use the ubuntu logo 
<\sh> juliux: thats licensing..no rights but using it...but this is OT
<ogra> juliux, and ?
<juliux> \sh, you want to see a picture of it?
<\sh> juliux: no...not on cups e.g.
<juliux> \sh, as a sticker
<\sh> juliux: well..the domain is mine :)
<mhz> juliux: we call the guys who take advantage from community efforts "Articulators"
<juliux> \sh, i have on my laptop
<jsgotangco> ogra: i'm trying to find on lp and wiki on big dapper features, but most i saw are polish, polish, polish, with the exception of a new kernel, xorg 7, new de, etc
<\sh> juliux: I know what he's selling...because he is using my domains :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, exactly ... edubuntus polish will happen mostly in ltsp
<\sh> juliux: and there is no need for a war between the distros...
<juliux> \sh, what do you mean with this?
<mhz> juliux: i guess we can 'educate' people in terms of Community Ethics. I believe backflow of some $% from incomes is a good idea, so we can all continue contributing
<juliux> http://www.linuxshop.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=123
<\sh> juliux: if there is a problem...let's have a drink with amu and talk about it...he's a nice guy believe me
<juliux> \sh, i dislike amu very much
<\sh> mhz: he is doing that
<jsgotangco> hmmm?
<ogra> juliux, things like the trademark shit, lkeagl issues etc made me run away from debian ... id really appreciate if ubuntu wouldnt become debian in the future ...
* jsgotangco thinks amu is really nice
<mhz> \sh: good
<ogra> juliux, but the road the ubuntu e.V. goes is exactly the debian leagal road
<juliux> ogra, i have no problem with amus work
<juliux> ogra, what does you mean?
<mhz> \sh: however, I understadn juliux feeling because in Chile I have seen MANY people just using the community for his own benefit
<\sh> juliux: believe me when I tell you, that amu is not doing anything against canonical or ubuntu or mark in general...he always asked about permission...he even asked maddog to do his business without paying linux trademark fees
<mhz> and taking all credits
<ogra> wanting to sue people for misusage of the logo etc
<juliux> shit my english is to bad to say what i want
<ogra> imho it was a wrong decision from canonical to give the trademar authority away
<juliux> ogra, i didn't get it
<mhz> juliux: shoot in deutsch
<\sh> mhz: in germany we have many so called linux iso shops etc. and they don't give anything back to the community....amu is doing this...read riddells blog...about a strange german kubuntu fan with unlimited bandwidth...I think it's amu...and I didn't ask him...but he is one with a big pipe
<juliux> ogra, we are only allowed to use it
<ogra> oh, that sounded different when you were upset about the berlin booth
<juliux> ogra, what does you mean?
<jsgotangco> \sh: does not give back?
<\sh> ogra: canonical didn't give anything away
<\sh> jsgotangco: amu is giving back...others not
<mhz> \sh: i am happy amu is spreading this, i am not complaining, I am just trying to understand juliux feeling and compare it to Chilean reality. I am also trying to build a biz model here.
<ogra> \sh, thats how i understood the announcement ... but seems i was wrong
<juliux> ogra, the problem with the berlin booth was that at this point there was some people in germany who said ubuntu isn't a community project so the shouldn't get a both at the community area at fairs
<jsgotangco> well amu also has gnoppix to begin with...
<\sh> ogra: canonical aggreed of the usage of the name and "logo"? i think...but they didn't give away any other things...canonical is allowed to revert the agreement at any time whenever they want without any questions...only in written form ,)
<ogra> \sh, since i saw that kubuntu wants to join the booth in essen, i guess we'll see amu
<juliux> ogra, that isn't true
<ogra> juliux, what ? 
<\sh> ogra: I hope so :)
<juliux> ogra, amu doesn't come to essen
<ogra> juliux, sure ? 
<ogra> he lives around the corner 
<juliux> ogra, he said it to me so at the linuxworldexpo last week
<mhz> ogra: what "canonical give away" are you all talking about?
<mhz> :)
<\sh> mhz: trademark rights
<\sh> mhz: but they didn't give away any trademark rights
<jsgotangco> they still own the name and logo for all i know
<mhz> \sh: when?
<juliux> ogra, amu don't want to have both with kubuntu and ubuntu
<ogra> juliux, the mail i just forwarede to you asks for jioning the ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu booths
<juliux> ogra, but this are people form a local lug
<ogra> which is a wonderful idea imho
<mhz> jsgotangco: eureka! maybe if I list it by Application, and then add subheadings (Subejcts, Ages, Languages tried, etc) I'll end up writing less ?
<jsgotangco> mhz: it sure looks like a good idea to me
<juliux> ogra, i have ask several kubuntu people but nobody want come to essen
<mhz> ogra: yes! xBuntu communties should all be one huge thing
<\sh> mhz: http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/files/agreement.pdf
<\sh> juliux: i'm there :)
<mhz> \sh: oh, thx. I can read now
<\sh> juliux: that's why I said...i don't want an ubuntu or a kubuntu shirt :=
<juliux> ogra, \sh i also said amu that i think there are many problems if we have at one fair an ubuntu both and a kubuntu both, but amu only think on his own project and on it own profit
<juliux> \sh, why?
<juliux> \sh, the problem is that ubuntu is the only distro who make differens in the names
<ogra> juliux, i'd very much appreciate a joined booth ...
<ogra> and i'll care that we'll have one at fosdem ...
<mhz> yup, it is nonse to have diff booths
<lucasvo> ogra: in which format do I have to enter vertrefresh and horzsync?
<ogra> (if i can go)
<juliux> ogra, i also want to have on big both
<mhz> actually, AFAIK, the BASE is exaxctly the same for all buntu flavours
<juliux> ogra, what is fosdem?
<ogra> lucasvo, i guess XX-YY
<juliux> ogra, that you have to said the kubuntu guys not me
<mhz> the booth should be just one, maybe with colored (or only logo based) areas
<ogra> juliux, http://www.fosdem.org/2006
<juliux> lucasvo, i can past you my xorg.conf
<juliux> ogra, thxs
<\sh> juliux: where is ubuntu doing differences? the names are only flavours...the base is the same..and the base is the most important thing...i don't care about gnome or kde or xfce or whatever anymore...I'm using what I want..and both have their rights...and amu and riddell are the two people who created kubuntu
<ogra> juliux, i'll talk to riddell and amu
<mhz> lucasvo: you can also read /etc/X11/xrog.conf
<mhz> lucasvo: you'll find examples there
* jsgotangco doesn't get the story at all
<juliux> \sh, on the names,  for example there is no gdebian or kdebian there is only debian, why we can do that with ubuntu?
<lucasvo> mhz: so it is the same way, ok thanks
<juliux> ogra, thanks
<\sh> juliux: this is marketing...and this is good...
<juliux> \sh, i think that it isn't good for the users
<ogra> juliux, because they are completely different in this regard ? 
<juliux> ogra, sorry that i didn't understand
<ogra> juliux, so you would prefer a 10 CD set coming with all flavous instead of a single CD coming with one desktop flavour ? 
<\sh> juliux: of course..that's why we have edubuntu and will get xubuntu in future...every user has their own need...and he wants by default his desktop and his favorite colour..so give the user his free will...OSS is the freedom to choose
<juliux> ogra, i want to have on cd that install the base system and and extra cd where is kde and gnome on it
<ogra> *shudder*
<juliux> \sh, but for this you didn't need extra distro names
<juliux> ogra, that is more better than have 10 or more ubuntu versions
<\sh> juliux: and this is not what ubuntu/kubuntu wants...because it's too expensive and the user is going to opensuse or fedora, because they have it there
<ogra> juliux, mark aims to have hundrets of flavors at some point
<juliux> ogra, i know
<mhz> juliux: I am still a huge Debian fan. However, the good point of Ubuntu is that it provides a debian-like environement with a desktop on top and tech support that can also be paid if needed..
<ogra> thats one of the targets of launchpad ...
<juliux> ogra, i think that this isn't very good for the community
<ogra> you'll be able to build your own flavour on the fly
<\sh> juliux: think about that...chocolate is chocolate...but u have different flavours...and one girl likes nougat, the other girl likes zartbitter...do u think removing those flavours and delivering only "chocolate" is better for the user?
<ogra> juliux, so canonicals business model is bad ? 
<juliux> ogra, no
<juliux> ogra, from the technical side it is very great
<ogra> note that we will only earn money through a proprietary product (launchpad)
<mhz> juliux: so for an newbie or quick install, ANY Ubuntu flavour is ok because it gives you the chance to either install Server or Desktop pre-setup
<juliux> ogra, but from the community aspect isn't very good
<juliux> \sh, for choclate you don't need any support
<mhz> \sh: of course not, I want all the girls
<mhz> :)
<ogra> its perfect if you can just click together your iso without having deep technical knowledge iho
<\sh> juliux: of course...u never went to the chocolate museum in cologne :)
<juliux> mhz, for newbies it isn't good because there a to much irc channels and to much forums
<juliux> \sh, i went
<juliux> \sh, i was there
<\sh> juliux: and thats why we had a spec about it
<juliux> \sh, the best words i can find for this situation is: 2 herzen schlagen ach in meiner brust
<mhz> juliux: hmmm, right. Maybe we should modify the way we want to help newbies ge ttheir info. However, any one can start at #ubuntu (i did) 
<juliux> \sh, i find the technical process very great but i see the problems the you have to give very good support
<juliux> \sh, and i see the splitting in the community
<juliux> if my english teacher could see that i write so much english at one day....
<mhz> juliux: yup, too many flavours is a dangerous edge. On the other hand, it may be good for many others. And we also have to 'teach' people about differences without getting lost
<\sh> juliux: http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/files/agreement.pdf
<\sh> argl
<\sh> juliux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExampleContent
<juliux> \sh, yes? what is with that?
<mhz> juliux: see? you are doing better every day
<juliux> mhz,  i think it is very great but then you have to have one big community and one big forum and not for every iso one forum
<mhz> juliux: and you are not speaking about "where do yo come from? / what does your mom do? " stuff
<\sh> juliux: we will setup all flavours with different example content...there are matching content stuff, but as well completly separated stuff
<juliux> \sh, i know
<mhz> juliux: yup, indeed. The forum should be just one.
<juliux> \sh, but i think that it will be very heavy to give a newbie good support
<\sh> mhz: for this I like the idea of forums.gentoo.org ... all languages in one forum...
<ogra> juliux, the target audience is totally different among these flavours ... would you like to answer edubuntu questions in #ubuntu ?
<juliux> ogra, no
<mhz> yup, I used Gentoo for a year
<ogra> you see
<mhz> ogra: I guess he means about Forums, esp.
<juliux> ogra, but there will be a problem if we have one ubuntu channel at freenode, one at gimp.net, one at euirc
<lucasvo> ogra: but if someone comes here and asks about rm/man or whatever he can also just ask in #ubuntu
<juliux> lucasvo, right
<lucasvo> so basic things should stay together and then some sort of subforum for edubuntu and kubuntu and ubuntu
<mhz> lucasvo: we do that in al lchannels, dont we?
<lucasvo> mhz: what do you mean, ask in every channel or ?
<ogra> lucasvo, i send people for basic stuff to #ubuntu
<lucasvo> ogra: so the same should be in forum
<juliux> ogra, i will make a example where i see a very special problem: if there is one who has a problem with cups he ask in #ubuntu and than he has a problem with kmail, what should you do then? anser it in #ubuntu or sent him to #kubuntu?
* ogra never reads forums ...
<ogra> so thats something a forums guy must do
<mhz> lucasvo: when i 1st started using ubuntu, I tried #ubuntu. When I decided to use Kubuntu flavour I still used #ubuntu and people suggested #kubuntu
<juliux> mhz, but this isn't very good for newbies
<ogra> juliux, as you liek ..
<ogra> like*
<mhz> juliux: why not?
<juliux> ogra, yes but it is a problem
<ogra> nope
<mhz> juliux: many newbies find IRC stressing :)
<ogra> you make it a problem
<lucasvo> I was so impressed of gnome so I stayed in ubuntu, it is really amazing how they grew, I first saw it 6 years ago...
<mhz> juliux: actually, I even get lost in #ubuntu :) 
<juliux> ogra, in the irc it is a very littleproblem but what is in reallief ?
<ogra> juliux, you can answer your kmail question in both channels
<juliux> s/reallief/reallife
<ogra> juliux, ??
<lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams < why is this locked, is there any other place where the syntax is described? 
<juliux> ogra, ??
<ogra> where is the problem in RL ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: you don't have irc :D
<juliux> ogra, if you have to both one ubuntu and one kubnut
<ogra> why would you ? 
<juliux> i don't want but it will come so
<lucasvo> ogra: because you prefer reading emails in kubuntu but rather code with ubuntu...
<juliux> that you have different irc channels different forums different developer meetings different both on fairs
<ogra> lucasvo, where is the difference ? they only have different desktops ... how does it matter which gui you use for coding ? 
<juliux> ogra, there are people who have with this problems
<ogra> juliux, i have no clue at all about KDE, the last time i really used it was v1.2 
<ogra> why should i give support for something i dont know
<lucasvo> I don't like qt duallicense... it is crap
<juliux> ogra, the best example is that we have in germany 2 ubuntu forums 2 kubuntu forums
<juliux> ogra, you should give support for that
<ogra> so join the efforts, thats neither ubuntus fault nor the fault of the different flavours
<juliux> ogra, but i think that all supporters should be at one point not a two or more
<ogra> juliux, so join the efforts ... talk to the other people
<lucasvo> ogra: any process on ldm with edubuntu theme?
<lucasvo> juliux: yes.
<juliux> ogra, i have talk about this wiht very much people
<ogra> lucasvo, mdz sent me back to the coding pit, he wants some changes before it can get into dapper
<juliux> ogra, i also have talk about this with mark
<ogra> juliux, so why are there still two forums for every flavour then ?=
<juliux> ogra, because there are people who want to make there own thing
<ogra> lucasvo, but in any case it will be in
<lucasvo> best example is if sb. explains some basic stuff in kubuntu forum, it isn't available in edubuntu forum, so if I really want to get sure nobody already posted some similar problem I would have to search 3 forums
<juliux> ogra, and this is a problem for the whol community
<lucasvo> ogra: can I have a preview? like the one you gave me, or is it still the same?
<juliux> ogra, there is so much double work
<ogra> juliux, where is the problem in joining them ?
<juliux> ogra, don't ask me
<juliux> ogra, at first there was only on forum
<ogra> lucasvo, its still *nearly* the same... some marginal changes to save memory are in
<juliux> ogra, the problem is that you have to much versions of *ubuntu
<ogra> juliux, just join them and do your work there ...
<juliux> ogra, i have not the time to do the work on 4 forums
<ogra> nope, the problem are people who dont want to work together
<ogra> thats not related at all to the amount of flavours
<juliux> ogra,  that is the second problem
<juliux> ogra, it is also a problem of the amount of flavours
<ogra> so go ahead, join them, work with them and we'll have only one forum
<ogra> itsvery easy
<juliux> ogra, that isn't so easy who you said it
<ogra> why its all about making the right compromises ...
<lucasvo> ogra: there isn't almost 0 compromises in merging 2 forums...
* mhz_wikiing uses WindowMaker and Fluxbox (99% of the time)
<juliux> ogra, yes exactly that i tried witht the both on fairs
<lucasvo> maybe what we are doing is also doublework.... :D
<ogra> lucasvo, we managed to get the backports people joining motu ...
<juliux> ogra, why you think i am here?
<lucasvo> who knows maybe there is same discussion on #kubuntu
<ogra> how should the forum stuff be differentz
<juliux> ogra,  i want to have at least ubuntu and edubuntu and xubuntu at one both
<lucasvo> ogra: what is motu?
<juliux> ogra, and i try it also with the kubntu guys
<ogra> lucasvo, the people caring for universe
<juliux> lucasvo, master of the universe
<ogra> juliux, \sh is here 
<juliux> ogra,  in know
<juliux> ogra, and \sh will be in essen
<ogra> exactly
<juliux> ogra, i ask more than one time the kubuntu-de guys what is for essen but no one wants, and amu wants to make is own thing
<lucasvo> hm, I somehow can't figure out the correct values for my screen
<lucasvo>         X_HORZSYNC         = "31-62"
<lucasvo>         X_VERTREFRESH      = "55-90"
<lucasvo> gives me more than 1024x768
<ogra> lucasvo, attach your screen to the server, run sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, get the values from the xorg.conf file on the server, attach the old screen and run the commnd again to have it reverted to the old values
<ogra> (ro use a liveCD) 
<lucasvo> ogra: I can't attach it so server, it is in some rack
<ogra> s/ro/or/
<lucasvo> ogra: dpkg--reconfigure doesn't work at all, as I said it is a Xorg autoconf bug...
<ogra> then to any machine with a CDROM and use a live CD to get the right values
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> sure that works ...
<ogra> did you file a bug ? 
<lucasvo> number  [Bug 17232] 
<lucasvo> ^^
<lucasvo> I think one should disable ntp on ltsp client
<lucasvo> because most people won't give direct internet access to clients directly anyway
<ogra> just chroot and uninstall it
<ogra> it will be gone in dapper anyway
<lucasvo> ogra: good
<lucasvo> this is what I wanted to say, remove it in dapper :D
<ogra> as nearly all services ...
<lucasvo> good
<ogra> we'll only keep device and sound related stuff ...
<ogra> everything else will be dropped
<lucasvo> cool
<vmarks> I just want to boot etherboot clients.
<ogra> i havent started working on etherboot yet, but it will work in dapper
<vmarks> six months away?
<ogra> april
<lucasvo> as my birthday present :D
<ogra> *g*
<vmarks> dang.
<vmarks> I need earlier.
<ogra> vmarks, i'll have info how to tweak breezy earlier
<ogra> as sson as i have time to work on it
<vmarks> thanks.
<vmarks> I'm anxious for it- I have a teacher whose class has the clients ready.
<ogra> did you get a nbi file in your tftproot after running ltsp-update-kernels with mknbi installed ? 
<vmarks> likely. let me look
<ogra>  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/nbi.img-$version
<vzl> there is nbi.img and nbi.img-2.6.129-386
<ogra> thats the etherboot image ...
<vzl> yet the client is still trying and failing on pxelinux.0
<ogra> vzl, vmarks, could one of you try to edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default ?
<vzl> :)
<vzl> it says vmlinux ro initrd=initrd.img.
<ogra> and change the initrd line to point to the ethrboot image
<vzl> ok
<vzl> and stop and start something to make it take effect?
<ogra> nope, just boot a client ....
<vzl> and, will that change clients booting off pxe?
<ogra> i sadly have to go now to care for some RL stuff ...
<ogra> no idea, as i said, i havent played with etherboot at all ...
<vzl> client still failing on pxelinux.0 as an invalid image.
<ogra> according to mdz it should just work
<ogra> if you are still around in 1-2h i'll have more time
<vzl> I'll be here.
<ogra> fine
<juliux> ogra, http://www.linuxtag.org/2006/de/home/aktuelles/newsitem/article/call-for-papers-fur-den-12-linuxtag-vom-3-bis-6-mai-2006-gestartet-virtualisierung-lizenzmanage.html 
<juliux> ogra, do you want to make one or two talks?
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: juliux what other fields could be included here http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList  ?
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, i will read it later, my girlfriend has a problem with matlap
<mhz_wikiing> (BTW, still under wiki syntax work)
<mhz_wikiing> she uses MatLAb?
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: maybe she could help us with cross curricular usage of Edubuntu!
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, she has to use matlab
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, is kde new default desktop for edubuntu?
<vincenzio> I hope not.
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, what for we need khelpcenter?
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: so far, the applications that were chosen belong to KDE
<mhz_wikiing> (most of them)
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, i see in this list of software only kde programs
<mhz_wikiing> yup
<mhz_wikiing> but gpaint
<mhz_wikiing> :)
<mhz_wikiing> and gompris and tuxpaint
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, boh not to much please
<mhz_wikiing> yup
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, have you asked in the gnome channels for gnome education software?
<mhz_wikiing> nope
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, pls do that
<mhz_wikiing> I was not part of the choosing applications
<mhz_wikiing> i will
<mhz_wikiing> once I can finish the listing and translating them :)
<mhz_wikiing> remember I am preparing an edubunt leaflet
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, http://www.gnomefiles.org/subcategory.php?sub_cat_id=49 very much gnome education software
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: cool. I'll take a loot at them. Or maybe, you could wiki them on same EdubuntuSoftwareList at the end with a new section like GnomeApplicationsNotIncluded
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, hm
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: as a matter of fact, I use some other apps. not included by default
<mhz_wikiing> such as ghemical and ChildsPlay
<mhz_wikiing> amon other
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: url already added
<mhz_wikiing> thx
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, np
<ogra> juliux, i dont think i want to talk about patents :)
<mhz_wikiing> juliux: so you think those fields are ok?
<juliux> ogra, but you talk about edubuntu or?
<ogra> sure
<juliux> mhz_wikiing, i will take a look at the wiki page in a few minutes
<ogra> but the link you pasted above talks bout patents
<juliux> at the moment i try to build gnome bluetooth control remote
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: i'll be in the council meeting today (afaik, 3 more hours)
<mhz_wikiing> JaneW: ping
<mhz_wikiing> JaneW: how would you suggest we deal with edubuntu translation efforts?
<ogra> i dont think she's around
<mhz_wikiing> JaneW: much of the Edubuntu docs are in the wiki.
<mhz_wikiing> oh
<mhz_wikiing> ok
<mhz_wikiing> thx for saving me the effort :D
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: would you prefer EdubuntuEnglishPage/ClVersion  EdubuntuEnglishPage/DeVersion etc?
<ogra> hmm
<mhz_wikiing> or each LoCo team should have its own wiki /data ?
<ogra> cant we do that more transparent
<ogra>  ?
<mhz_wikiing> sure, any ideas?
<mhz_wikiing> BTW, EdubuntuEnglishPage is anything in default language :)
<ogra> not really
<mhz_wikiing> hehehe
<mhz_wikiing> me neither, so far
<mhz_wikiing> :D
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: well, i'll keep on wikiing. So far, the Edubuntu.org main page it is translated in http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile
* ogra doesnt understand a word on tis page
<mhz_wikiing> and i guess, while we have no cleart 'policy' i'd betta keep CL pages in there, right?
<ogra> but it looks good :)
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: cool it says" M$ rocks!"
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i doubt that
<mhz_wikiing> hehehehe
<mhz_wikiing> so, as there are some key info about edubuntu, hosted in wiki.edubuntu.org and I need some of those translated into spanish  (CL) for our EdubuntuTour, i'll keep the translated ones in tecnocimiento. I hope, if Council aproves my participation, I can host www.edubuntu.cl (so far, I have only booked it)
<ogra> fine with me
<mhz_wikiing> ok
<mhz_wikiing> you are Mr. Edubuntu :D
<ogra> but only the technical part ...
<ogra> JaneW is our manager ;)
<mhz_wikiing> sure, but when she's not around , you are Second Man on board
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: could someone with access place a link to that CL page for spanish people?
<mhz_wikiing> (link from edubuntu.org to that url)
<ogra> you mean on the website ? 
<ogra> thats highvoltage territory
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: oh, i think we should modify our manifesto a bit: Edubuntu will always be free of charge
<mhz_wikiing> we could clarify: ...from Canonical's side.
<ogra> or just make clear that edubuntu is 100% ubuntu
<mhz_wikiing> hehehehe
<mhz_wikiing> I agree that Edubuntu is 100% Ubuntu base packages. However, I still believe Edubuntu is much more than a 'distro'.Afaik, we do much more
<mhz_wikiing> and if we also provide "contents" in a near future, then we'll definately be more.
<ogra> thats true
<mhz_wikiing> so i like the idea of a EdubuntuManifesto
<mhz_wikiing> .oO(but I'd do some editing to emphazise that we are based on Ubuntu distro and what our commitments with education are)
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: what or how do we vote over the packages we should/could include in Dapper?
<ogra> mhz_wikiing, i dont think we'll change much
<ogra> send a proposal to the ML
<ajmitch_> ogra: what do you need to get into main/universe in the coming weeks?
<mhz_wikiing> ok, ogra. So does that mean we have no "procedure" to decide why an app. is included or not, over the others?
<mhz_wikiing> ajmitch_: sorry for the many moin notifications on EdubuntuSoftwareList. Actually, it's not much i am editing. it's been more syntax related. I still gotta add some info regarding the testings we've made. Once i finish, I'll translate that page.
<ajmitch_> no need to apologise
<mhz_wikiing> ajmitch_: thx, but i guess that after 20 notifications, you wanna kill me :)
<ajmitch_> hah
<ajmitch_> no
<mhz_wikiing> cool then
<mhz_wikiing> ogra: but ok, let's say I send a proposal. It'd be fair to understand your point of view. I mean, I can suggest to eliminate 20 applications and include 25 new ones. What would that mean in technical terms?
<ogra> mhz_wikiing, regulary the apps are 
<ogra> selected at the edubuntu summit
<mhz_wikiing> ?
<mhz_wikiing> when is next?
<ogra> dapper+1
<mhz_wikiing> oh and that means?
* mhz_wikiing lost
<lucasvo> http://www.gnomefiles.org/subcategory.php?sub_cat_id=49 < one should include some of these apps into edubuntu...
<lucasvo> btw, is there any classroom software which can turn off screen on all clients, lock screen, or start mplayer to show a stream of master PC?
<lucasvo> that would be good for classrooms
<ogra> lucasvo, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/ feel free to enhance it :)
<ogra> mhz, that means we wont change much for dapper
<lucasvo> ogra: good
<lucasvo> ogra: but I neither know C nor glade
<mhz> ogra: yup, ok, I see it. when is it gonna take place the edubuntu summit and where?
<mhz> lucasvo: i guess that what you ask is difficult
<lucasvo> mhz: why? in what way?
<mhz> lucasvo: and esp. because ogra  and I _dont_know_who_else is actually taking all responsibility in current development areas.
<lucasvo> mhz: aha, wow, you alone?
<lucasvo> great job!
<mhz> lucasvo: also, doing that will mean we will actually have phisical control over the machine.
<mhz> lucasvo: thx but NOT me
<mhz> lucasvo: and esp. because ogra  and I_dont_know_who_else is actually taking all responsibility in current development areas.
<mhz> I ment "i dont know who else" :D
<lucasvo> mhz: a teacher wants more or less physical control over the machine
<mhz> yup
<mhz> i agree
<mhz> if you mean "killing X", that is possible
<lucasvo> mhz: of course the linux freaks know how to open a new terminal with ctr-alt-f2 but this is not normal
<lucasvo> mhz: no, open an app which makes screen blank and doesn't react to mouse
<mhz> if you mean control over what they see or dont... a bit more complex, unless yo mean "filtering" applications.
<mhz> lucasvo: well, that is possible via SSH :D
<lucasvo> I just mean the blackscreen function, for e.g. a teacher explains on the blackboard sth. -> he doesn't want kids to look at pc -> he wants to disable pc for several seconds
<lucasvo> mhz: yes
<mhz> lucasvo: how would you exactly picture your idea?
<mhz> lucasvo: ahhhh
<mhz> lucasvo: the easier already-possible-to-do-it  way I see here is
<lucasvo> mhz: I don't know how to realize it, because, if you have more than one classroom using ltsp with same server you can't just blank all the clients
<mhz> yup, that was gonna be my point
<mhz> :)
<lucasvo> mhz: the problem is already-possible-to-do-it is not easy
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> yup
<lucasvo> is there a way how to determine on which client sb. is logged in?
<mhz> you can kill X but it will affect all
<mhz> arp
<lucasvo> this is stupid, because it will even affect teacher
<lucasvo> arp?
<mhz> arp will tell you which IP's are connected to the server
<mhz> so, if you run arp
<lucasvo> mhz: but not which user is connected on which pc?
<mhz> and you previously identify each machine ip/position
<mhz> you may kill ip connection
<mhz> who, who is a comand that tells you who is logged in
<lucasvo> mhz: but then it will hang forever
<mhz> lucasvo: yup
<lucasvo> mhz: but how do you want to determine which IP which user?
<mhz> easier way: educate your students to turn monitor off (they consume less energy, therefore are more env. friendly)
* mhz trying in his box
<mhz> hmmm, no ltsp boxes at the moment.
<lucasvo> mhz: you can simply make a panel applet which starts a programm which blanks the screen
<lucasvo> is ldm running on the client or on the server?
<lucasvo> how can I turn off ltsp client ? 
<mhz> ogra: 'who' shows ttyX users are using. For Edubuntu LTSP, each tty is a remote box as well?
<lucasvo> ^ as normal user it isn't possible is it?
<lucasvo> mhz: no
<lucasvo> mhz: I only have local users
<mhz> lucasvo: normal user? nope
<mhz> lucasvo: then, if LTSP users are local users, then each TTY is a users
<mhz> lucasvo: then, if LTSP users are local users, then each TTY is a user
<lucasvo> mhz: my sister isn't on the who output but she is logged in over ltsp
<lucasvo> mhz: no ltsp user is not local
<mhz> then LTSP users are not considered local users logged in
<lucasvo> no
<mhz> ok
<mhz> lucasvo: but let's say we have a classroom with 10 clients
<lucasvo> yes
<mhz> each client has a # = ip
<mhz> 'arp'
<mhz> will tell us what # are logged in, right?
<lucasvo> right
<lucasvo> mhz: but as well non_# who are logged in
<mhz> Each student uses a personal 'user'
<mhz> I am user 'mhz' at box 192.168.0.19
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/436449 < some sample output
<lucasvo> johanna is the ltsp user
<mhz> so, tomorrow, i can be mhz at .5 or mhz at .11
* mhz opening
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> ltsp on ubuntu is running through ssh?
<mhz> yup
<mhz> wow she's doing stuff
<mhz> lucasvo, then maybe you could 'grep -i johanna' and then kill her :)
<mhz> all at once
<lucasvo> mhz: but this is forever and not only for 30s
<mhz> hmm right
<lucasvo> mhz: we need to pause not to stop :D
<mhz> lucasvo: easy way: Educate Johanna to turn on/off monitor upon teachers request
<lucasvo> mhz: yes
<mhz> (plus we'll be more env. friendly)
<lucasvo> mhz: easy way works not with my friends
<lucasvo> :D
<mhz> LOl
<lucasvo> and not with me :D
<lucasvo> because I will just open a new console and make ssh to my server :D
<mhz> then, we'd betta kill 'them'
<lucasvo> even with no X
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> but reboot takes long time and one would always loose data
<mhz> we cant' work miracles!
<mhz> :D
<lucasvo> it isn't a miracle
<lucasvo> ogra: is there any way how to set a environment variable at login? with ip of client?
<mhz> lucasvo: does XDMCP let you 'pause' user actions?
<lucasvo> xdmcp probably yes
<mhz> lucasvo: maybe then, we should offer both ways
<ogra> lucasvo, look at the source of student-control-anel
<mhz> pause (xdmcp), no pause (edubunt ltsp)
<lucasvo> ogra_dinner: dinnert, the new german verb, dem english trend gemaess ? :D
<ogra_dinner> jupp
<lucasvo> ogra_dinner: how is one supposed to turn of ltsp client/
<ogra> lucasvo, with the power button ?
<lucasvo> ogra: so no software poweroff :(
<ogra> nope
<ogra> having admin tols for stuff like ltsp is always a security violation... i wont include such functionallity this early in the development ...
<ogra> if you know a safe way to implement it, feel free, patches are welcome ;)
<juliux> where is mhz??
#edubuntu 2006-11-20
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys!
<paolob-parroquia> Is there a way in edgy to modify globally the gnome menu? I mean, in a way that affects all users. With smeg it was "sudo smeg --root"
<LaserJock> well, what kind of thing do you want to do?
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, I want to modify in a snapshot all the students menus
<LaserJock> so absolutely everybody on the computer
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, basically I want to remove from all my students' menus (I have about 600 students-users) some item which I don't want they can access it
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, with "sudo smeg --root" it was possible
<paolob-parroquia> but unfortunatly smeg doesn't exist any more...
<LaserJock> yeah, smeg was turned into alacarte
<LaserJock> but unfortunately it can't edit the root menus
<paolob-parroquia> :-(
<LaserJock> well, I can see 3 ways of dealing with this
<LaserJock> 1) use sabayon to give your students a profile that has that menu item removed
<LaserJock> 2) manually edit the root menu
<LaserJock> 3) use edubuntu-menus and modify say edubuntu-basic
<LaserJock> I'm honestly not sure which would be best
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, would you say that if I edit the menu of the root user all the users' menu are changed?
<LaserJock> well, it's not the root user
<LaserJock> there is a place /etc/xdg/ wher all the users get their menus
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, and how do I use edubuntu-menus?
<LaserJock> well, you install the edubuntu-menus package
<paolob-parroquia> and then?
<LaserJock> and then add users to one of the groups (like say edubuntu-basic)
<paolob-parroquia> ?!?
<LaserJock> then the users get their menus from /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/
<LaserJock> if you wanted some to have the item and some not I'd go with that approach (or sabayon perhaps)
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, ok, thank you!
<LaserJock> hmm
<Amaranth> XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/etc/xdg XDG_DATA_HOME=/usr/share sudo alacarte
<Amaranth> LaserJock: root menu editing
<Amaranth> :)
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> although I'd sure wan to have backups ;-)
<Amaranth> i would for sudo smeg --root too
<Amaranth> they work the same way :P
<LaserJock> yeah, I should have thought of that
<LaserJock> but the person left so fast
<joejaxx> hey everyone
<LaserJock> hi
<joejaxx> LaserJock: trying out edubuntu server ins few moment
<joejaxx> s
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ?
<joejaxx> or anyone else awake?
<LaserJock> yeah?
<joejaxx> i just setup a edubuntu server but it is giving me some problem
<joejaxx> s
<joejaxx> i have on interface setup to receive internet
<joejaxx> another one static
<joejaxx> i tried restarting dhcpd but it is not working
<joejaxx> nevermind i think i got it
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm probably the last person you want to ask
<LaserJock> I've never set up an LTSP server
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> woohoo
<joejaxx> edubuntu server thinkclient environment in vmware
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> it works
* joejaxx dances
<joejaxx> this is great
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> this is great
<LaserJock> :-)
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> i have the server in one window
<joejaxx> and the thinclient in another
* joejaxx wonders how the actual environment is going to be
<LaserJock> now throw another computer on the network
<joejaxx> oh uh
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> it stops
<joejaxx> the progress bar is in the middle of the second to last section on the progress bar
* joejaxx boots up another thinclient
<stgraber> morning
<kihai> Hi! Don't know if my question is in the right place here. I'm using LTSP 5.0 (Edubuntu Edgy) and having troubles when users log off from their ltsp session. Sometimes gdm crashes and the client has to be rebooted. Is there a solution to this?
<ogra> gdm ? did you tweak the setup ? usually there runs ldm on the clients ...
<kihai> Ahem, I meant ldm....
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> i havent seen that problem yet (and neither heard about)
<ogra> could you file a bug against the ltsp package
<ogra> getting ldm.log from the client would be helpful ...
<kihai> OK, I'll try
<kihai> ...can't find ldm.log in /op/ltsp/i386/var/log/ 
<Kamping_Kaiser> it will be on the client itself i suspect
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, would it be posible to backport edgy LTSP (local devices specifically) to dapper? i asked before edgy, but you were kinda busy to answer :)
<kihai> I chrooted to /op/ltsp/i386 and looked in the /etc folder of the client, but there's no ldm.log
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, it will be complicated, still looking into it, ltspfs is in universe in dapper and in main in edgy until i find sa proper solution thats the showstopper ...
<ogra> kihai, sudo /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd <- set a root pw on the client ....
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, thanks for the info.
<ogra> kihai, on the client ctrl-alt-f1 and log in as root
<ogra> then scp /var/log/ldm.log user@server /tmp/
<ogra> note that the ldm.log only helps from a crshed session ...
<ogra> *crashed
<kihai> I can't log in directly from a crashed client, because when it's crashed, it's crashed --- only Alt+Print+S/U/B works. Not even Ctrl+Alt+Backspace works...
<ogra> and it crashes even the user logged out properly ? 
<kihai> The crash either shows a white screen or the empty desktop background. You cannot move the mouse or do anything else except Alt+Print+S/U/B
<kihai> Yes, sometimes logging out works without probs and sometimes ldm crashes. Approximately every third logout fails. It's not sooo big a problem, because I then just reboot the client, but it's definately not nice...
<ogra> no it isnt and needs to be fixed ... but i need more data about it unless i can reproduce it myself ...
<kihai> I'll try to get on a client after it has crashed. brb
<kihai> I found some errors in /var/log/X11.6.log on the client. ldm.log was empty. Just a second, I'll paste it in pastebin...
<ogra> better attach it to  bug
<ogra> *to a
<kihai> Hmm, here is the output of Xorg.6.log from one crashed client: http://pastebin.com/828780
<ogra> looks fine
<ogra> ldm.log was empty even someone logged in successfully ? that cant be....
<kihai> I'm not sure if so logged in successfully before. This was the only client that let me use Ctrl+Alt+F1
<ogra> well, i need the ldm.log after a crash ... which indicates that you once logged in successfully since you say it happens after a number of logouts ...
<ogra> ldm does only write errors or the login procedure to ldm.log .... 
<ogra> if you never logged in and there are no errors the files is indeed empty
<ogra> *file
<kihai> OK, I see. I'll keep an eye open and will try to find a client which let's me copy the ldm.log. So long....
<jsgmobile> Hey
<ogra> you could install sshd in the client environment, so you can log in remotely to it and pull the log this way
<kihai> hmm, will give it a try - after lunch ! :)
<kihai> Ahem, you meant to install openssh-server, didn't you?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> (it brings the binary sshd, sorry for the confusion)
<kihai> Hm, I get a file not found error when trying to install from the client: Err file: edgy/main openssh-server 1:4.3p2-5ubuntu1
<kihai>   File not found
<ogra> apt-get update first ?
<kihai> Nope. Did Update first, but the same error ocurs...
<ogra> but your server is online and you can ping the world if you are not in the chroot ?
<kihai> yes
<ogra> and from the chroot ? can you ping there ?
<kihai> yes
<jsgmobile> ogra: hey how are you doing? Man i miss being online with a working PC
<kihai> OK, my sources.list on the clients only contains the cdrom entry. Can I just add the official ubuntu entries?
<ogra> jsgmobile, trying to stay awake (1pm here) and fighting my jetlag ... i returned yesterday afternoon ...
<ogra> kihai, just cp the sources.list fro the server into the chroot
<ogra> *from
<jsgmobile> Haha good to know ogra
<kihai> Installation of openssh-server didn't work. It gave me some errors: A package failed to install..
<ogra> on edgy ? hmm, that should work right away 
<kihai> It works on the server. openssh-server is installed there.
<ogra> indeed, else ltsp wouldnt work :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning scott
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage
<blueonyx>  hi
<highvoltage> hi blueonyx 
<blueonyx> is there any tools like rc.d-update on edubuntu?
<blueonyx> -s
<sbalneav> Umm, update-rc.d?
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: by the way, mario_ told me to tell you 'I'm very sad that we didn't got the ltsp burning bits session, but oh well, stuff happens. On the other note, -multi now works under -tao in libburn.' 8 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes and 8 seconds ago (on Sun Nov 12 00:56:54 2006)
<blueonyx> ah thx ;D
<sbalneav> It's the same as in debian.
<blueonyx> locate pxe
<blueonyx> oops
<blueonyx> sbalneav: mistake in my mind ;)
<blueonyx> is there any way to see whats behind the boot splash (of a client)
<blueonyx> ?
<stgraber> Did you try pressing ESC or F2 ?
<blueonyx> already fixed ;)
<blueonyx> there was a kernel panic, thats why it did not respond
<stgraber> ok :)
<blueonyx> how does the thin client gets its kernel modules?
<stgraber> they are in the initrd I think
<blueonyx> it loads the kernel, but then halts because there is no net device
<blueonyx> its a very old card isa i think
<blueonyx> can it load this?
<blueonyx> and of course detect it right before ;)
<ogra> remove the word splash from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<blueonyx> thx ogra i found it already
<stgraber> can you get the ID of your network card, to check that the required module is included ?
<stgraber> ogra: Do you know if the Ubuntu kernel still detects ISA cards ?
<bddebian> Howdy
<stgraber> hi
<blueonyx> i dont know what you mean, but the kernel panic is because init exits, then it cannot find a file called /tmp/net-eth0.conf : /
<ogra> i think so, yes, but it cant configure them if they are not PNP ones ...
<blueonyx> hi
<ogra> blueonyx, sounds like stgraber is right, thats either a missing network card module or a bug in udev 
<blueonyx> how do proof that the module is missing?
<blueonyx> *how to
<blueonyx> does it load the required modules from the server,too?
<ogra> it loads whats in the initramfs ... 
<stgraber> As soon as the Linux boots, both kernel and initrd should have been downloaded from the server
<blueonyx> the tftp client only loads the vmlinuz and an pxelinux config file i think
<ogra> which should be all possible network modules an ubuntu kernel has
<ogra> the client recieves the PXE info first through the PXE protocol ... then the vmlinuz (kernel) and the initrd.gz (initramfs) files via tftp ...
<sbalneav> ogra! Back in .de?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> with a fresh cold and heavy jetlag
<sbalneav> Ugh.  Bummer.  When do you head out for Poland?
<ogra> wednesday
<sbalneav> Ah, so a bit of time to recover then.
<sbalneav> Where do we want to start development wise?  I'll set up a feisty box at home, what would you like me to start in on?
<ogra> not really ... i have to care for my lost wallet ... apparently the train i was booked for from berlin to lodz was cancelled 
<blueonyx> seems the network card cannot be loaded correctly
<ogra> took me the whole morning to rebook me to a flight ...
<blueonyx> ohhh pnp was disabled
<blueonyx> now isapnp detects the card but the same kernel panic  : /
<blueonyx> ipconfig says no device found
<blueonyx> what is ipconfig? is there a difference to ifconfig?
<sbalneav> Sorry, I'm coming in late.  What card are you trying to detect?
<blueonyx> ogra, bddebian, sbalneav any thoughts? please : ((
<blueonyx> 3c5x9
<blueonyx> 3com
<blueonyx> isa
<sbalneav> ugh
<sbalneav> That's the only card you've got?
<blueonyx> nearly ; )
<blueonyx> why?
<sbalneav> Man, it's been so long since I've dealt with an ISA card.  So, the kernel's not detecting it?
<blueonyx> isapnp detects it but the needed module seems not to be loaded
<sbalneav> Does it use jumpers, or the software setup
<blueonyx> i enabled pnp via software
<sbalneav> What happens if you try a sudo modprobe 3c509
<blueonyx> ugh i have no terminal
<blueonyx> because of the missing module, there is no netmount
<sbalneav> What do you mean you have no terminal?
<blueonyx> i am on the thinclient
<sbalneav> Oh, this is on a thin client.
<blueonyx> sry
<blueonyx> the tip with another ethernet card do not work on all of these machines here
<blueonyx> most of them have no pci slots ;)
<sbalneav> I'd use the dos software to set the card manually.  If I remember correctly, the linux kernel will autodetect it if it sits at io address 0x320, and IRQ 5
<blueonyx>  am  here in goog old germany with a little zoo, amazed that these machines even work with electronc power ; )
<sbalneav> Do these machines have an isa video card?
<sbalneav> What kind of processor?
<blueonyx> my test machine has pci
<blueonyx> pentium mmx
<blueonyx> and a s3 pci card
<sbalneav> I thought you said they don't have pci?
<blueonyx> not on all machines
<blueonyx> this is an exception
<sbalneav> I'll ask again: are some of the machines you want to get working have an ISA video card?
<blueonyx> could be
<blueonyx> is this that important?
<sbalneav> I would suggest that anything that doesn't have PCI bus won't make a good terminal.
<sbalneav> In #ltsp, we tell people that ISA video cards don't have enough bus bandwidth to make reasonable terminals.
<blueonyx> hm
<sbalneav> At any rate, use the DOS disk that comes with the card, and try setting the card to 0x320, and IRWQ 5
<blueonyx> it worked with an simple xserver
<sbalneav> Right, but you probably weren't using the net at the same time, were you?
<blueonyx> i will try this
<sbalneav> Remember: as a terminal, you're going to be CONSTANTLY using the network AND the video card.
<blueonyx> the xserver ran on another machine
<sbalneav> The ISA bus simply doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to do this well.
<blueonyx> as xserver for all machines of this zoo
<sbalneav> What app are you planning on running? An text terminal, or a browser?
<blueonyx> justbrowsing
<blueonyx> i have a closer look at the mchines
<blueonyx> w8
<blueonyx> i am sorry there are pci cards and pci video cards but thats not my problem : (
<blueonyx> < sbalneav> I'd use the dos software to set the card manually.  If I remember correctly, the linux kernel will autodetect it if it sits at io address 0x320, and IRQ 5
<blueonyx> what do you mean by "the kernel"?
<sbalneav> The kernel
<sbalneav> The Linux kernel
<blueonyx> there is a message from isapnp which says that the card is found
<blueonyx> while booting
<sbalneav> "Found" and "Working" are two different things :)
<blueonyx> thank you for your time i got to go home : (
<blueonyx> see you tomorrow?
<sbalneav> How many machines are you talking about here, that you want to set up?  For the amount of time you're going to spend on this, why not jus buy....
<sbalneav> some pci network cards.
<blueonyx> atm there are 8 machines
<sbalneav> They're cheap, you can get Ether express pro 100's for like 30 bucks, why not save yourself hours of aggro.
<sbalneav> so, 30x8 = 240bucks.  that's cheap.
<blueonyx> but as i told you i am from germany and here is no money, even not for some pci network cards ; )
<sbalneav> No money in germany?
<sbalneav> C'mon
<sbalneav> It'
<sbalneav> It's a G8 industrialized nation.
<blueonyx> no money for education
<blueonyx> see you tomorrow bye
<sbalneav> Phht.
<sbalneav> So, at a zoo, you can't scrape up $240 bucks?
<sbalneav> I wonder if they feed the animals. :)
<stgraber> imo, buying 8 network cards isn't a problem if we consider the time you will need to make it work otherwise
<sbalneav> Well, that's my point.
<sbalneav> I mean, if it's some homeless shelter in venezuela, I could see the problem.
<sbalneav> This is a ZOO in GERMANY
<stgraber> here, network cards (rtl8139) are at around : 6euro if we order more than 10
<stgraber> so, that's not really a problem I think :)
<sbalneav> Do those come with pxe?
<stgraber> no, but we had some useless harddisk
<stgraber> and just put etherboot on them
<sbalneav> Yeah, or a boot floppy.
<sbalneav> heh
<stgraber> boot floppy isn't a good idea in school :)
<sbalneav> Sure, just unbolt the floppy from the front of the machine, and mount it internally in the hard drive bay :)
<stgraber> and I really doubt that this 3com card do something more than 10Mb/s which can be a little be short sometime
<stgraber> yes, great idea :)
<sbalneav> Yeah, the 509's only 10 megs
<Burgwork> http://kidswithout.homelinux.net/
<squid0> hi
<squid0> can someone please tell me about edubuntu's internet filter? is there such a thing?
<stgraber> VmWare rocks, I made a virtual server+3client network, with the server connected to the internet and everything
<stgraber> and it's really fast !!! (compared with qemu+kqemu)
<sbalneav> squid0: What is it you'd like to know?
<sbalneav> I think you can use Synaptic to add the package dansguardian
<sbalneav> From the package:
<sbalneav> DansGuardian is designed to be completely flexible and allows you to tailor the
<sbalneav>  filtering to your exact needs. It can be as draconian or as unobstructive as
<sbalneav>  you want. The default settings are geared towards what a primay school might
<sbalneav>  want but DansGuardian puts you in control of what you want to block. 
<squid0> sbalneav: i've tried to use dansguardian before, but it's a bit complicated; i think you have to set up a proxy server as well, etc. etc. i just thought if there was a specific one in edubuntu, i'd like to use it... I use kubuntu, but i'd like to see what edubuntu has to offer in this area
<sbalneav> Dan's Guardian is what the standard one is, yes.  And you're right, you need to set up a proxy.
<squid0> oh
<squid0> ok then
<squid0> i'll google it... not up to a night of tinkering... i;d like something easy :)
<sbalneav> Content filtering's a complex topic.  No easy answers there.
<squid0> ok...
<cbx33> evenin all
<cbx33> hi willvdl 
<Burgwork> cbx33: you did the scp stuff last round, no?
<cbx33> yes i ded
<cbx33> y?
<Burgwork> mind if we totally redesign the UI this time?
<cbx33> it was ogra's UI
<cbx33> as long as he's ok with it
<Burgwork> ah
<cbx33> I am
<cbx33> I only added a few thing
<Burgwork> it is ok, just needs some tweaking
<cbx33> but it needs to change anyway if we're going to have the VNC thumbnails
<Burgwork> I think the adding of vnc thumbnails requires some thinking
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I agree
<cbx33> but then again I don;t know who is working on it this time round?
<Burgwork> no idea
<cbx33> ogra didn't have time last release so I stepped in to do it all
<Burgwork> wiirush: you @#$@#@$
<Burgwork> :)
<wiirush> heh
<wiiprush> there
<Burgwork> wiiprush: no, it is that you have a wii and I don't
<stgraber> The other question is do we really use VNC for the thumbnails, that means having a VNC connection to all the clients, that also means a lot of bandwidth
<cbx33> Burgwork, I presume we'll have a developers meeting sometime soon at least, if I'm working on it, I'll call for one
<cbx33> stgraber, well, not really
<cbx33> seeing as all the clients are on that server anyway
<Burgwork> we also need to make the backend deal with fat clients, thin clients and multiseat
<cbx33> Burgwork, that will require a lot more work
<cbx33> and I don;t know if it's in the spec
<Burgwork> no, but it needs to be a long term goal
<cbx33> indeed
<Burgwork> maybe require telepathy?
<cbx33> not sure
<Burgwork> just an interesting idea
<cbx33> brb
<stgraber> Just a stupid question, how can I force a LTSP client to run using 800x600 instead of 1024x768 ? I tried with X_MODE_0 in lts.conf and by changing in xorg.conf, but I still have this too big 1024x768 resolution ...
<sbalneav> stgraber: You'll have to set the X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH low enough
<sbalneav> Unfortunately, X currently doesn't allow for preseeding the X_MODE lines, we'll get that fixed for next version.
<stgraber> ok, thanks
<Lukef> Hi all
<Lukef> anyone available to help a teacher run through an Edubuntu install??
<stgraber> I can help
<Lukef> hanks stgraber
<Lukef> thanks
<Lukef> I pop the live install CD in (which works on other machines) on an random IMB thinkpad
<Lukef> I can get to the inital install screen, but then get two errors 
<Lukef> im rebooting now so I can type in the errors I get :P
<stgraber> ok
<Lukef> should i start normal.. or in safe graphics mode?
<stgraber> when did you get those errors ?
<stgraber> during the boot of the livecd or in the installer itself ?
<Lukef> I'm at the main install screen now.. where it gives me options to install
<Lukef> during the Boot of the Livecd
<stgraber> you can try the safe graphics mode, but I doubt it's a graphic problem
<Lukef> k
<Lukef> im booting into safe graphics mode now
<Lukef> the kernel runs.. and i get the initial "loading" screen for edubuntu
<Lukef> it is off of the "loading" screen and is black now
<Lukef> but i hear the CD working
<stgraber> ok, so it's probably trying to launch the X server
<Lukef> ya
<Lukef> its checking file systems now
<Lukef> and activating swap
<Lukeff> sorry Stgraber.. i got booted
<Lukeff> the first error just popped up .. GDM Could not write a new authorization entry to disk. Possibly out of diskspace. Error: No space left on Device.
<Lukeff> should i hit OK to get past this error?
<stgraber> usually the "disk" with a livecd is the ram, how much ram do you have ?
<Lukeff> 256
<Lukeff> its an older laptop.. but still fairly decent
<stgraber> 256 should be enough
<stgraber> I only had some problem with 128MB
<Lukeff> hrmm.. weird
<stgraber> ok, and what's the next error ?
<Lukeff> Next error is "Could not start the X server due to some internal error. Please contact your sys admin or check your syslog to diagnose. In the meantime this display will be disabled. Please restart GDM when the problem is corrected.
<stgraber> ok, so both seems to be related
<stgraber> do you have a login prompt ?
<LukeF> ugh.. keep getting booted 
<LukeF> should I ALT CRTL F1?
<stgraber> yes please
<LukeF> k
<LukeF> im in cmd line
<stgraber> ok, so do :
<stgraber> free
<stgraber> df -h
<stgraber> first is the info about your current ram usage
<stgraber> second is about the harddisk (and ramdisk as well)
<LukeF> oh wait.. I only have 128 megs :P 
<stgraber> and how much free memory ?
<stgraber> the free column and -/+ row
<LukeF> I have a measly 2412 free
<LukeF> 123052 used
<stgraber> hmm, really not enough for a X server I guess :)
<LukeF> ugh :P 
<LukeF> is there still a way to install ?
<stgraber> yes, but not with the livecd
<LukeF> i really want kids to get their hands on a new machine
<LukeF> kk
<stgraber> you have to download the install cd
<LukeF> can i run the install from the live CD?
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> that's a different cd
<LukeF> so download the install CD
<LukeF> and try it from there?
<stgraber> yes, just take care to choose the Workstation install
<stgraber> not the "Install to disk" one
<stgraber> Install to disk is to install a server
<LukeF> why the workstation install?
<LukeF> ahh.. 
<LukeF> thank you 
<stgraber> Workstation is to have the same install as the live-cd
<stgraber> no problem
<LukeF> awesome
<LukeF> thanks so much!!
<stgraber> http://se.releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.10/edubuntu-6.10-install-i386.iso
<stgraber> for the Edgy x86 install cd
<LukeF> thanks much stgraber.. ill try it again tomorrow
<littlepaul> hi, where can I read some (advanced) technical documentation about the LTSP-5 infrastructure?; I didn't found something on wiki.ltsp.org
<sbalneav> heh, don't think we have much doco yet, other than the source :)
<Burgwork> http://edu-nix.org/shanecoyle/?p=18
<Burgwork> sbalneav: ^
<jamey> Hi I'm interested to know how suited Edubuntu would be in a UK college environment, the students are aged between 16 and 20. A few major components look like they wouldn't be necessary, is there anything that would make it ideal for such a situation?
<LaserJock> well, having an out of the box LTSP solution is nice
<jamey> oh, yes good point... there aren't many other distros that do this then I gather?
<cbx33> jamey, oooh where abouts in the UK are you?
<jamey> cbx33, shropshire
<cbx33> ahh
* cbx33 is in hampshire.
<stelis> jamey: Which College?
<LaserJock> you Brits and your shires :p
<stelis> (I'm in Mid-Wales)
<jamey> its new college, in telford
<LaserJock> jamey: the default educational apps aren't really suited to college, but that'll mostly be the case anywhere
<LaserJock> LTSP would be the reason to use Edubuntu in a college, IMO
<jamey> LaserJock, I thought so... but there are a few apps I've noticed that would be of use
<jamey> LaserJock, yeah I thought so, plus just the name and its overall slickness
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get my Department to switch to an Edubuntu LTSP lab
<LaserJock> yes, it's still got all the Ubuntu features
<jamey> LaserJock, I'm trying to convince mine that it's worthwhile not to spend thousands on licenses and instead spend it on the hardware (or just stop spending altogether!)
<LaserJock> all the same repositories
<jamey> thought so
<jamey> even the fact that the mathematics department use Autograph, which is quite expensive I gather, and there is a KDE-type app included in Edubuntu
<cbx33> jamey, it's very difficult in the UK to convince people to use open source
<cbx33> grr....I wish we had been able to go to BETT
<jamey> cbx33, grrr i've felt that for a long time!
<jamey> BETT?
<jamey> does it do a lot of open source stuff at its show?
<LaserJock> jamey: the next release of Edubuntu in April should have better college age support out of the box
<stelis> cbx33: I'd say that OSS on the desktop is hard to sell
<jamey> LaserJock, brilliant... what version and can I see development docs or something?
<cbx33> stelis, it's not just that
<stelis> Moodle etc. on the server is all over
<cbx33> jamey, that will be feisty
<jamey> cbx33, wow so soon!
<jamey> I saw this company and thought they had the right ideas: http://www.siriusit.co.uk/
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> I've sopken to them 
<jamey> cbx33, cool did they have anything to say about it?
<cbx33> well.....not really ;)
<cbx33> I phoned them to ask if I could interview them for YouthLUG radio
<cbx33> got any young linux users at the college?
<cbx33> brb
<LaserJock> jamey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuOnTwoCDs will be a part of it
<jamey> cbx33, not really, I'm in the second year computing class (it's barely a dozen people) and just about every person has submitted to the MS plague
<jamey> LaserJock, cool thanks... I noticed there is quite a bit of out-of-date stuff on the wiki :S
<jamey> cbx33, sorry I forgot... unless you count me!
<LaserJock> jamey: can be, we use it for a variety of things, sometimes archival ;-)
<jamey> LaserJock, ah right it's just the release notes referred to 5.10!
<LaserJock> ah, yes, I believe that might have been fixed
<LaserJock> just a minor typo ;-)
<LaserJock> hi RichEd 
<LaserJock> jamey: we're also trying to work to make sure the "theming" is suitable for college age too
<RichEd> hi there ...
<LaserJock> jamey: it's hard to produce one distro that suits preschool up to university
<RichEd> just connecting to get email ... will disappear in a sec
<jamey> LaserJock, yes it definitely is
<jamey> perhaps there could be a feature similar to the dynamic-menus suggestion where you can select the 'age range'?
<LaserJock> jamey: yes, yes. I'm pretty eager to do that
<LaserJock> jamey: I'm the person that did the dynamic menus
<LaserJock> I'm also a uni student
<jamey> LaserJock, cool :) where at?
<LaserJock> University of Nevada, Reno USA
<LaserJock> PhD student in Physical Chemisty
<LaserJock> *Chemistry
<jamey> woah fun :D
<jamey> I want to help with the project somehow, not sure what to do really
<stelis> Docs?
<LaserJock> jamey: well, if you hang out some
<LaserJock> we can certainly find things for you to do :-)
<jamey> okay great :)
<jamey> stelis, where to start though?
<LaserJock> I know I'll need testers for the dynamic menus stuff I'm working on
<jamey> LaserJock, can I test it using the workstation install mode or does it have to be the standard server install?
<stelis> There's a Handbook under development, which needs a few sections completing
<LaserJock> jamey: workstation is fine. in fact you could test it from regular Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I've actually never done an LTSP server install yet
<jamey> LaserJock, would I need to change sources.list at all
<LaserJock> it's on my todo list
<jamey> wow lol
<LaserJock> jamey: nope
<jamey> cool
<jamey> stelis, url?
<LaserJock> I've always had stupid DHCP conflicts
<jamey> LaserJock, I was afraid of that since even if I did a test I'm sure it would conflict with the router et al
<LaserJock> I think for simply testing an LTSP server you can directly hook the client and server together
<LaserJock> we did that at the Paris dev summit
<jamey> good point
* cbx33 just modofies the windows DHCP server to serve some ubuntu addresses and ltps paths
<stelis> jamey: It's available from Subversion - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<jamey> wow must've been quite a trip
<LaserJock> jamey: yes it was, but well worth it :-)
<jamey> LaserJock, I bet :) do you know whether the centralised network auth server will be in edubuntu fesity fawn?
<jamey> stelis, thanks I'll have to explore this
<LaserJock> jamey: I believe that is the plan :-)
<cbx33> that's will be good
<cbx33> esp if we can get home mounting working
<stelis> The handbook is under edubuntu/handbook/C
<cbx33> that is a must as far as I'm concerned
<jamey> stelis, thanks
<jamey> then it will work just like 99% of UK schools
<jamey> or colleges... the authentication and copying of home dir on Windows is so slow
<jamey> (thank goodness for LTSP)
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> I had it working almost with the home mounting
<cbx33> it just wouldn't log in because it couldn't create a file in the home dir I think was the issue
<jamey> why would that be do you think?
<cbx33> not sure.....I did investigate it all back then
<cbx33> but tbh I have forgotten a lot now
<cbx33> it may work?
<jamey> well that's good then, who else is working on it?
<cbx33> well I',m not !!
<cbx33> heheh
<jamey> :P
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu has a new directory services team
<jamey> why else do you reckon FOSS is so hard to convince people in the UK to use?
<jamey> what's that then
<LaserJock> "People interested in making network directory and authentication services (LDAP, DNS, Kerberos) play nicely with Ubuntu."
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys!
<LaserJock> jamey: we also have spec for Edubuntu network authentication client and server for Feisty
<jamey> LaserJock, ah right yes.
<jamey> LaserJock, I saw - that's why I asked whether ti would be in fesity
<jamey> feisty*
<LaserJock> yep, that's the plan
<paolob-parroquia> I have a problem with the upgrade to edgy. apparently all was ok, but now all the user see an english keyboard, while before it was spanish. What can I do?
<juliux> paolob-parroquia, you can set the keyboard option in the lts.conf
<paolob-parroquia> juliux, let me see
<juliux> XKBLAYOUT = 
<juliux> and then your keycode for spain
<jamey> cbx33, i've checked out the docs, i'm in /edubuntu now... what's to do? sorry, i'm a bit of a newbie at this.
<stelis> "make hb"
<stelis> Empty sections are marked "for adoption"
<stelis> I've just finished a draft for the look and feel section
<paolob-parroquia> juliux, after changing it should I restart dhcp or something else?
<stelis> About thirty seconds ago
<jamey> stelis, you've lost me... how can I check what's marked for adoption and so on?
<stelis> Either generate the HTML version with the "make hb", or just "grep -i adoption *.xml"
<jamey> looks like I'll have to install build-tools then?
<stelis> Yes, you need "make" plus the DocBook packages.
<juliux> paolob-parroquia, only reboot the clients
<stelis> If you are new then you could write up the text and somebody else might add the DocBook markup for you.
<littlepaul> jamey, #
<littlepaul> build-essential
<littlepaul> #
<littlepaul> subversion
<littlepaul> #
<littlepaul> xsltproc
<littlepaul> #
<littlepaul> docbook-xsl
<littlepaul> #
<littlepaul> docbook-defguide 
<jamey> littlepaul, thanks!
<jamey> stelis, "make hb" does nothing?
<jamey> stelis, sorry :$ wrong dir
<jamey> stelis, is it wise for me to start with something blank like the "About the Edubuntu Handbook" section?
<stelis> Sure, you might find it easier.
<jamey> stelis, I'm out on a limb here though... what shall I put :D
<littlepaul> LaserJock, where is the thing with the dynamic profiles documented? I would like to read more about this
<jamey> littlepaul, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDynamicMenus?highlight=%28CategorySpec%29
<jamey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDynamicMenus
<jamey> sorry, dirty URL
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't have really any good docs yet
<LaserJock> that'll be one thing I'll be working on
<littlepaul> ok, thx
<LaserJock> I managed an initial implementation in Edgy
<LaserJock> that's in the Universe repo
<stelis> jamey: That's probably the least specific section :)
<jamey> stelis, good point :) i'll give it a go though, I'm a bit nervous about getting things "right"
<stelis> jamey: Do you have a working copy of Edubuntu?
<jamey> stelis, no but I did have on another HDD last week. I might install it again
<stelis> I've just had a look at the remaining sections, and "installtypes" is probably fairly easy to do as you install Edubuntu
<jamey> stelis, ok thanks I'll see what I can come up with
<stelis> jamey: I'm just a random contributor. If you ask on this channel or #ubuntu-doc there are usually helpful people around.
<jamey> stelis, okay sure. thanks for your help, it's appreciated
<stewski> hi richEd mc44 suggested this may be of use to you.
<stewski> http://opensourceacademy.gov.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file
<LaserJock> stewski: RichEd isn't around unfortunately
<stewski> its a detailed account of an attempted roll out of linux in Birmingham city council - uk
<stewski> not directly Ubuntu related as they went with Suse but there maybe some useful lessons?
<stewski> No problem laserjock perhaps he'll catch it on scroll back?
<LaserJock> perhaps, I  can send it to the edubuntu-devel ML too
<stewski> excellent - its being unfairly reported as a flop but there are some big positives and a lot of useful feedback
<Burgwork> use edubuntugirl
<Burgwork> edubuntugirl: tell riched http://opensourceacademy.gov.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file
<edubuntugirl> Righto, Burgwork!
<LaserJock> Burgwork: doh, good idea
<LaserJock>  edubuntugirl: tell RichEd http://opensourceacademy.gov.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file
<edubuntugirl> Righto, LaserJock!
<LaserJock> I'm guessing it might matter which nick you tell her
<stewski> does anyone know much about edubuntu/ubuntu in an application served environment like NX or citrix?
<stelis> stewski: That's a bit specialized.
<stewski> just a long shot
<stelis> If you ask on a mailing list there are more potentially respondents
<stelis> ubuntu-education or edubuntu-users, maybe
<LaserJock> stewski: how do you mean?
<LaserJock> I use citrix clients on Ubuntu quite a bit
<stewski> excellent, well I'm looking at server based computing for my 3rd year project
<stewski> I want to account for its impact in network design
<LaserJock> my uni has a few citrix servers set up
<LaserJock> we mostly use them for specific math/science programs
<LaserJock> expensive stuff where licensing cost become an issue
<stewski> but I also wanted to do a run down of 2X/NX/Citrix and TS/RDP
<stewski> so I understand
<stewski> http://www.2x.com/applicationserver/ is supposed to be cheaper
<stewski> and sun's offering has got TS support these days
<stewski> how well does citrix work in your environment?
<LaserJock> pretty good as long as the licenses work :-)
<LaserJock> I don't use it for a full on desktop
<stewski> are you switched 100mb lan?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> it's a university in the US
<LaserJock> we have pretty decent connections
<stewski> just application serving?
<LaserJock> stewski: I believe so
<LaserJock> at least the servers I use
<stewski> do you just have a MS application icon on a gnome desktop that launches a remote app seamlessly no problem?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I have an .ica file
<LaserJock> that launches the citrix client
<LaserJock> then I authenticate and it pops up
<LaserJock> so it's pretty seamless, just have to login first
<stewski> cheers laser helpful to know what people are using
#edubuntu 2006-11-21
<LaserJock> stewski: np
<Burgwork> stewski: I would use seamless rdp to a windows server
<Burgwork> avoid 2x and citrix
<stewski> can you create seamless windows through RDP and regular Terminal services?
<stewski> what about SUN?
<Burgwork> yes, seamless rdp is a clientside thing
<Burgwork> of course, I would simply avoid running windows stuff altogether
<stewski> :-)
<stewski> well I'm looking from a network design point of view
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> anythign that reduces what you draw is good
<Burgwork> seamless rdp or 2x does that
<stewski> but I'm trying to investigate the relative merits of each approach
<stewski> so how would I go about getting a seamless app running through RDP?
<Burgwork> need to get seamless rdp runniung
<Burgwork> then need a server
<stewski> a terminal server?
<stewski> for windows apps
<Burgwork> yes
<stewski> http://www.codeproject.com/internet/tswindowclipper.asp
<stewski> some details there but it seems a little late to clip at the client end?
<stewski> have you done much with NX?
<Burgwork> nope
<stewski> thanks though for the heads up on seamless RDP that's got to work out as a very low cost alternative
<stewski> any specifics against ICA/2x other than cost and proprietary?
<Burgwork> why pay money for something you get for free?
<stewski> I think at the top end its for load balancing and remote access
<stewski> but I agree a standard protocol for remote desktops would make the world a nicer place too
<stewski> http://www.ncl.cs.columbia.edu/research/thinc/
<stewski> this uni have done quite a bit of research and development
<stewski> and have even proposed a standard
<Burgwork> the nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from
<Burgwork> there are already two out there: VNC and RDP
<stewski> classic quote, are VNC and RDP open standards?
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> although RDP has been "extended" by MS
<stewski> oh that old chestnut
<stewski> so is NX an open standard?
<cliebow> nx is awesome!
<stewski> have you used it much?
<Burgwork> stewski: NX is sort of an open standard
<Burgwork> there is a GPL-ed implementatin
<stewski> whilst there are free clients that doesn't necessarily make the protocol free does it?
<stewski> I could see remote screen protocols getting a bit lock in nasty as they all compete it out
<stewski> or am I being over paranoid
<cliebow> \i use it a LOT
<cliebow> i have ltsp servers in 12 schools..and in combo with x11vnc do a lot of troubleshooting from the "office"
<stewski> do you have to support any MS apps cliebow?
<cliebow> well..we have citrix running office and "choices" and stuff 
<cliebow> dont do much rdp..too tough on the ms servers
<stewski> cool though mixed environment
<stewski> do you have any useful advice especially regarding network architecture
<cliebow> i have oh 80 ltsp terminals..and 100 ibooks..and a bunch of ms machines
<cliebow> i am not great on architecture...it just seems to work
<stewski> 100mb switched?
<cliebow> in the high schools
<cliebow> 100 meg switched..with gig backbone
<cliebow> and fiber between six schools..ldap auth
<stewski> where about in the world are you?
<cliebow> ellsworth maine
<stewski> U.S.
<stewski> do you have any public literature on the setup?
<cliebow> so i am part of a group of five that do the six ells..schools..plus we suupport unuion 92
<cliebow> which is six school around ellsworth
<stewski> would you say FLOSS is getting going in US education
<cliebow> not really..i contib a lot to wiki.ltsp.org
<cliebow> stewski..it is in isolaTEd places..where someone pushes it
<stewski> same over here although I think the government is starting to advocate a little more
<cliebow> there is a bunch around Ellsworth..cause i am pushing it..dtrask in vassalboro..derek dresser up in Betherl
<cliebow> England>?
<stewski> yes well uk
<cliebow> i'd like to live there
<cliebow> i was in London last MAy during soccer finals..i hjad a blast
<stewski> its the 51st state
<cliebow> 8~)
<stewski> not the best world cup
<cliebow> quite a few pockets there running ltsp as well..i drive a hundrfed miles for my Linux Format magazine
<stewski> I thought in the US people drove a hundred miles for milk :-)
<stewski> how come you were in london?
<cliebow> heh..there was a time id have to get a boat offf the mooring in a snowstorm to go after milk
<cliebow> just family vacation..
<stewski> I've been to NY odd thing visiting cities
<cliebow> you in a school?
<stewski> no I'm doing a degree, think about teaching when I finish
<cliebow> for a hometown oy i had a blast in nyc..helping with the ltsp booth
<barktpolar> Hello Room
<stewski> helo
<barktpolar> Anyone use Edubuntu in Philadelphia Schools?
<cliebow> i taught a year..when they tried to poison me..i thought it was ytime to find another line of work'
<stewski> ha ha not warm beer?
<cliebow> barktpolar: i dont know of anyone..
<cliebow> castor oil in my Coke
<barktpolar> Oh, cause i heard rumors taht linux can go thorugh school firewalls
<barktpolar> and I was wondering if it's true or not
<cliebow> it is the guy running it.not so much the distro
<stewski> firewall and operating system are unrelated (ish)
<cliebow> we fight a lot of proxy stuff in our district
<barktpolar> What district are you from?
<cliebow> ellsworth maine\
<stewski> I'd suggest using whitelists
<barktpolar> Cool
<barktpolar> I'm a students just ordering Edubuntu
<barktpolar> student*
<cliebow> you will love it..if you are a little experienced
<stewski> is LTSP easy to setup under edubuntu
<barktpolar> I'm getting a "buntu" collection going and I have Ubuntu and Kubuntu already
<stewski> dont forget xubuntu
<cliebow> stewski..using muekow it is very
<stewski> and nbuntu
<cliebow> xfce is pretty neat
<barktpolar> I don't have Xubuntu, not out on Shipit
<cliebow> n?
<barktpolar> It's a Network Ubuntu running on fluxbox
<cliebow>  Cool!
<stewski> so I hear
<cliebow> ive run kltsp on rhel3 rhel4 various fedoras breezy dapper edgy libranet
<barktpolar> OT: Who is better, Tux or Konqi?
<cliebow> barktpolar..you can run all at the same time..swap between em
<cliebow> Komnqi?
<barktpolar> I don't run Network stuff with Ubuntu/Kubuntu anymore
<barktpolar> Konqi is the KDE Mascot
<cliebow> barktpolar: can t you just d/l the iso?
<barktpolar> Dial-up user, that is why I use Shipit
<stewski> so how do you see ltsp going with ubuntu?
<barktpolar> ltsp?
<cliebow> my other lappie i have kubuntu icewm ubuntu 
<stewski> lin terminal server project
<cliebow> ltsp is linux terminal services..a wauy of turning junk into thin client
<barktpolar> I don't have them installed anymore though, but I still have the CDs
<barktpolar> has anyone ever taken a test called the ICDL?
<cliebow> stewski:edubuntut has integrated ltsp into it..using ubuntu binaries rather than the classic ltsp which is an independently built chrooted filesystem mounted to a thin client'
<cliebow> ] via nfs
<cliebow> ive used everything from nubus mac to pentium 90 s to ibooks as thin clients
<stewski> so does the OS boot through PXE?
<barktpolar> Besides, my parents don't allow me to install any of the "buntus" on my HDD right now anyway due to dial-up problems with them
<cliebow> pxe or etherboot
<stewski> is that reliable?
<cliebow> Very
<stewski> cool
<stewski> what about user management
<stewski> the school Im looking at are active directory
<cliebow> half the high school depends on thin client junk..management is just the server
<cliebow> so change the server.. a hundred clients instantly reflect the change
<stewski> I see
<cliebow> new firefox?..one install a hundred clients get it instantly
<stewski> all the thins are identical boot from server
<barktpolar> cliebow, do you use Edubuntu in the school or at your house?
<cliebow> yes
<stewski> then you remote to apps (seamless)
<cliebow> Everywhere!!
<cliebow> dont understand the question
<stewski> or run local apps
<cliebow> you can force apps to run locally.
<stewski> do you use RDP/NX or the like to run apps on server
<cliebow> but i use all ther junk in the district.
<stewski> what about drive mappings
<cliebow> ltsp provides a server desktp
<cliebow> so whatever the server has..the clients have
<cliebow>  we used ad for authentication for several years using winbind
<cliebow> and pam_mount for homedirs
<stewski> OK
<cliebow> but ldap is awesome
<stewski> I think the samba team are on a mission with that
<cliebow> smbldap\
<cliebow> yeah..i talk to john terpstra some
<stewski> any word on how long for samba 4
<stewski> as I think that's supposed to be the point that samba can import and then replace a directory controller
<cliebow> well samba 4 is kind of a fork
<stewski> oh right
<cliebow> it is not the next step in samba necessarily
<cliebow> smbldap is so scriptable it beats the pants off ad
<stewski> well the idea sounds ambitious
<stewski> Im on an MS course at uni
<cliebow> well there is good money there
<stewski> they've made a lot of stuff scriptable
<cliebow> heh..i kind of make it up as i go along
<stewski> they see the threat
<stewski> that's computers
<cliebow> i guess reallty they always had the ability
<stewski> I don't know about that
<cliebow> it is just us poor people couldnt afford to set it up to learn it
<stewski> I used to hate IIS for its lack of config files and arcane database/reg format
<cliebow> so i went linux
<cliebow> the lack of logfiles drives me crazy
<stewski> I just remember when I realised in nix everything is a file
<stewski> seemed genius to me coming from MS land
<stewski> OK time for sleep this degree isn't going to pass its self
<cliebow> i run my dhcp on alternate port so it is invisible to win machines in a mixed environment
<cliebow> yeah..dinner here..
<stewski> DHCP is a big security hole
<cliebow> nighto1!
<stewski> cheeers for the advice and help cliebow
<stewski> bye
<cliebow> im around #ltsp if you want to meet the creaturs...and an edubuntu dev
<cliebow> creators i meant!~
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey mate :)
<digitalmouse> I'm searching through the ubuntu forums and starting to branch out through other distros for a quick answer for this:  any easy way to enable remote desktop for all users at boot-up?  at the moment I have an internet accessible computer in a 'troubled childrens home' and the staff want to be able to see what the kids are surfing from the comfort of their offices.  no problem in logging in to each user account and turning the remote des
<digitalmouse> I feel so dirty spamming the ubuntu channels like this :(
* Kamping_Kaiser shrug. vnc?
<digitalmouse> oh the built in remote desktop (vnc based I gather) works quite well.  was just hunting for something I can set at boot time and lock down.
<digitalmouse> thanks anyway!
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry :)
<digitalmouse> not a problem, was just curious if anyone had done this already - no point re-inventing the wheel if it can be avoided
<digitalmouse> hmm.. seems vino is only setup to work *after* login of a user.   better off using a vnc server or enabling the feature in the xorg.conf file
<AlbertII> can i get some help here
<AlbertII> i wood like to install ubuntu
<AlbertII> how long dos it htake to install that f*****g UBUNTU
<Kamping_Kaiser> depends on your attitude
<Kamping_Kaiser> please watch it
<AlbertII> i ha ve no problems installing windows on my old laptop
<AlbertII> bud ubuntu
<AlbertII> my attitude is ok
<AlbertII> bud what i need is some help
<Kamping_Kaiser> what is the problem when installing ubuntu? ubuntu or edubuntu? what version of [ed] ubuntu?
<AlbertII> i have put the ubuntu cd in my laptop
<AlbertII> then choose instalation
<AlbertII> then installs kernel
<AlbertII> then i enter starx
<AlbertII> startx
<AlbertII> then i see my mouse pointer
<Kamping_Kaiser> so its not booting all the way?
<AlbertII> at a moment i can move it 
<AlbertII> then i whon't move anymore
<AlbertII> bud i stil hear my cd-rom drive spinning
<Kamping_Kaiser> what happens if you wait a few minuts?
<AlbertII> at this time the cd-rom stops spinning
<AlbertII> i have a gray screen
<AlbertII> with my mouse pointer
<AlbertII> frozen
<Kamping_Kaiser> i sugest you ask in #Ubuntu, i cant help you, but since your problems not edubuntu specific, you could try tehre
<AlbertII> ok thx for atleast responding
<AlbertII> this is the first positieve thing today
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck with it
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt seen that problem before
<AlbertII> no luck there
<AlbertII> lot's of people
<AlbertII> bud no help at all
<AlbertII> what i don't understand
<AlbertII> is that windows is so easy to install
<AlbertII> and linux so hard
<AlbertII> that it makes no sense anymore
<AlbertII> and windows is also free
<Kamping_Kaiser> you have a bug. X isnt starting. its usualy insanely easy
<Kamping_Kaiser> i cant tell you how to work around thsi X problem though, as i dont know
<AlbertII> it is some bios problem
<AlbertII> in the begining it says biios
<AlbertII> or force=1
<AlbertII> i just restarted my laptop
<AlbertII> when i see the problem i write it down here
<AlbertII> for the moment i have the ubunto screen
<AlbertII> with the moving line
<AlbertII> my cd-rom is spinning
<AlbertII> line is moving from the left to the right
<AlbertII> ubunto screen disapair
<AlbertII> i have the -
<AlbertII> cd-rom still spinning
<Kamping_Kaiser> AlbertII, are you using 6.10 or 6.06?
<AlbertII> 6.10
<AlbertII> the latest
<Kamping_Kaiser> have you tried 6.06?
<AlbertII> no
<AlbertII> is the 6.10 not better
<AlbertII> i only have the flashing -
<AlbertII> i wil try the 6.06 LTS
<Kamping_Kaiser> 6.06 had more work put it. it might nto have your bug
<AlbertII> just rebooted my laptop
<AlbertII> strange
<AlbertII> it seems to work
<AlbertII> loadiing drivers
<AlbertII> mounting root file
<AlbertII> moving mount points
<AlbertII> adding lice cd user
<AlbertII> etc....
<AlbertII> shit my screen hase gone black
<AlbertII> not anymore
<AlbertII> out of meory
<AlbertII> killed process 3160
<AlbertII> gconfigtool1-2
<AlbertII> 219.689972 out of memory : killed process 6160 (gconfigtool1-2)
<AlbertII> that's on my screen right now
<AlbertII> i have a red screen now
<AlbertII> with my mouse pointer
<AlbertII> i can still move my mouse and my cd-rom is till spining
<AlbertII> i have again a ubuntu screen
<AlbertII> i can see on that screen window manager
<AlbertII> and some icon apear
<AlbertII> black screen now bud my cd-rom is still spinning
<AlbertII> how long dos it thake to install ubuntu on my old laptop
<AlbertII> more then 2 hours?
<Kamping_Kaiser> how old?
<AlbertII> what  old?
<AlbertII> the laptop it's a compaq presario 1200
<AlbertII> it's old bud win xp runs fine on it
<Kamping_Kaiser> how old is it though? the version means nothing to me
<AlbertII> it's a 800mhz
<blueonyx> hi
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi bddebian and sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser, sbalneav
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<blueonyx> the thinclient here boots till it tries to mount the root fs
<blueonyx> but this fails, because it wants to mount 192.168.106.110:192.168.106.110:/opt/ltsp/i386, where 192.168.106.110 is the ip of the root server
<blueonyx> but why is this ip present 2 time?
<blueonyx> seems to me that ipconfig creates this misery with the /tmp/net.eth0.conf file
<Kamping_Kaiser> misconfigured dhcp server probably
<blueonyx> the problem is that the dhcp server is another machines than the root server : /
<blueonyx> the client is redirected to the root server with a next-server directive
<blueonyx> can i change the /tmp/net-eth0.conf and start the process again without running ipconfig?
<blueonyx> and how?
* Kamping_Kaiser shrug
<blueonyx> : (
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<blueonyx> from where does the client gets its root fs before it tries to mount the server's one? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> syslinux.0 afaik is whats used for booting
<blueonyx> pxelinux.0 right
<Kamping_Kaiser> er, yes. sorry :|
<blueonyx> damn its a binary file : (
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> you want to cnofigure it?
<blueonyx> right
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can make a per-host config files, the configs are loaded by mac
<blueonyx> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> (instructions on help.u.c and wiki.edubuntu.org)
<sbalneav> blueonyx: Can you paste your dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<blueonyx> w8
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<blueonyx> http://pastebin.com/829725
<blueonyx> vornrechts is my thinclient
<blueonyx> machine
<sbalneav> I'll have to look at the code in the initramfs to figure out how it's coming up with the mount string.  Give me a few minutes.  I don't see anything obviously wrong with your dhcpd.conf
<blueonyx> thank you very much
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi edubuntu'ers
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi highvoltage 
<highvoltage> howzit goin'?
<blueonyx> hi 
<highvoltage> hey blueonyx 
<Kamping_Kaiser> highvoltage, slow. nothings happening. i'm drop dead tired, and waiting for some people to get online ;\
<highvoltage> heh :)
<blueonyx> could anybody give me the commando mount uses to mount the / from the server? or even the script which invokes it?
<highvoltage> being tired and a bit bored at the same time sux
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P 2.30 am, probably another hourish before they arive
<highvoltage> "mount 192.168.0.254:/opt/ltsp/i386/ / -o nolock" should do it
<highvoltage> blueonyx: of course, change you IP address to your server address :)
<sbalneav> blueonyx: It's done in the initramfs, created using initramfs-tools
<blueonyx> okay
<sbalneav> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
<blueonyx> this produces no error but i feel no change too : /
<sbalneav> You can't run that directly.
<blueonyx> i forgot to say: i am in the busybox on the thinclient  ; )
<sbalneav> It's run from within the initramfs
<blueonyx> okay
<blueonyx> # FIXME This needs error checking
<blueonyx> hehe thats damn right ; )
<sbalneav> So, fix it then.
<blueonyx> if [ "x${NFSROOT}" = "xauto" ] ; then
<blueonyx>                 NFSROOT=${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH}
<blueonyx> i thnk this happens
<blueonyx> +i
<sbalneav> Wrong
<blueonyx> =${ROOTSERVER}:${ROOTPATH}
<blueonyx> but the ${ROOTSERVER}: is already included in th ${ROOTPATH}, created by ipconfig
<blueonyx> what's wrong?
<sbalneav> both ROOTSERVER and ROOTPATH are supplied by ipconfig
<sbalneav> so it's ipconfig that's messing up.
<blueonyx> how to change this
<sbalneav> I'm looking at the source now.
<sbalneav> It's probably something in the dhcpd.conf file, but I'm looking.
<sbalneav> give me a minute.
<blueonyx> the ip of the root path is already stripped out in the dhcpd.conf, but it doesn't matter 
<sbalneav> ipconfig is in klibc-utils
<blueonyx> ...?
<sbalneav> Wait.
<blueonyx> kk
<sbalneav> You had the ip address in the option root-path in the dhcpd.conf file before, yes?
<blueonyx> right
<sbalneav> and you removed it, right?
<blueonyx> right
<sbalneav> Did you restart the dhcp server?
<blueonyx> right
<sbalneav> No, you didn't :)
<sbalneav> Or, you're picking up the wrong dhcpd.conf.
<sbalneav> What's the dhcp server? An edubuntu box?
<sbalneav> or something else?
<blueonyx> it runs suse 9.3
<sbalneav> OK, I don't think it restarted.
<sbalneav> You're still getting the ip address in the root path.
<sbalneav> I've looked at the source, and it just passes along the option root-path as is, so if it's doubled, it's because a dhcp server's still passing it.
<sbalneav> So you need to check that.
<blueonyx> i am on it
<blueonyx> you're right : ))
<blueonyx> there must have been a error with the webinterface : /
<blueonyx> done it now one a shell
<blueonyx> i see a X cursor : ))
<blueonyx> but it's damn slow : (
<sbalneav> You were the guy with the 3c509?
<blueonyx> right
<blueonyx> but now on another machine ; )
<sbalneav> What's your network connection?
<blueonyx> 10 mbit coax
<sbalneav> yep, gonna be slow.
<sbalneav> collisions + 10 megs = slow.
<blueonyx> what schould collide? its atm only one machine O_O
<sbalneav> It's coax.
<sbalneav> coax ALWAYS gets lots of collisions.
<sbalneav> Even with only TWO boxes
<sbalneav> And with a thin client, you're having to send lots of data.
<sbalneav> NFS root + X is a very chatty protocol.
<blueonyx> gnome promts for a user
<blueonyx> should there be any with the default install?
<blueonyx> yeah of course root (sudo user) ; )
<blueonyx> after entering its username and hitting enter - no reaction
<sbalneav> what user id you enter?
<sbalneav> root?
<blueonyx> koenig
<sbalneav> that should work.
<sbalneav> Is it logging in?
<blueonyx> how to check this? 
<sbalneav> Check what?
<blueonyx> wether it is logging in
<blueonyx> uhm
<sbalneav> is the screen just blank? or what?  is the koenig user already logged in on the server?
<sbalneav> Usually, gnome doesn't like people logged in twice.
<blueonyx> is the user created by the install process, automatically added to the chroot?
<sbalneav> no, the user doesn't run out of the chroot.
<sbalneav> It runs on the server as normal.  The chroot is just for the OS that runs on the client.
<blueonyx> i am talking bout the client
<blueonyx> it boots to the gnome log in screen
<blueonyx> i type in the username i gave to the install process of the edubuntu server and the caret disappears and after that nothing is boing on
<sbalneav> I'm confused.  So, you entered the userid "koenig" on the thin client, and then the password, and hit enter, yes?  So, does gnome look like it's starting up?
<blueonyx> it does not ask for a passwd
<blueonyx> and there is no user koenig in the thinclient's /etc/passwd file
<sbalneav> blueonyx: there won't be.
<sbalneav> it logs into the server
<blueonyx> <blueonyx> is the user created by the install process, automatically added to the chroot?
<blueonyx> this is what i meant by that ; )
<sbalneav> And I said:
<sbalneav> no, the user doesn't run out of the chroot.
<blueonyx> and i did not understood what you meant sry
<sbalneav> Did you get a grapical login screen or not?
<blueonyx> i get it
<sbalneav> ok, so you entered "koenig" and hit enter, and it didn't ask for a password?
<blueonyx>  the caret disappears and after that nothing is going on
<sbalneav> Is the network light flashing like mad?
<blueonyx> the problem is
<blueonyx> there is no user i can use to login because i have not crated any in the chroot ( /opt/ltsp/i386 ) environment 
<blueonyx> thank you for your time
<blueonyx> and help of course : )
<sbalneav> You don't NEED to create a user in the chroot
<sbalneav> You just create them on the server, as normal users.
<sbalneav> the chroot is JUST to get the thin client booted with X
<sbalneav> it doesn't run any of the userspace stuff
<sbalneav> that all runs up on the server like normal.
<sbalneav> You should just be able to, on the server, as the admin user, go to Administration -> Users and groups, and add another user.
<blueonyx> but it restarts the xserver if i enter a passwd
<sbalneav> Then log in as that user on the thin client.
<blueonyx> i triy that
<sbalneav> By "restarting the server", do you mean you enter the password, and the login screen just comes back?
<sbalneav> if so, then on the server, you want to type:
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<sbalneav> as your ssh keys are probably out of sync.
<moquist> ogra: ping-ga-ding
<blueonyx> i copied the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow of the server into the chroot and i can login now in gnome on the thinclient : )
<blueonyx> with the user from the server
<sbalneav> wha?
<blueonyx> yeah
<sbalneav> did you actually chroot and install gnome on the thin client?
<blueonyx> no its gnome from the edubuntu server thats why its called thin-client eh?
<sbalneav> I have no idea what you're doing
<blueonyx> i have edubuntu installed on one machine
<blueonyx> and started the second machine as thin client
<blueonyx> it gets its kernel and stuff from the first machine
<sbalneav> then you don't need a passwd and shadow on the thin client.
<sbalneav> I understand how a thin client works, I'm one of the LTSP developers.
<blueonyx> it is in the directory /opt/ltsp/i386 on the server
<sbalneav> Yeah, I wrote that stuff.
<blueonyx> so after the boot on the thin client i saw a gdm login
<blueonyx> i entered the username from the server koenig
<blueonyx> nothing happens
<blueonyx> so i copied the /etc/passwd to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ and restarted the thinclient
<ogra> moquist, pongedipong ... (sorry, very busy sorting my travel stuff for tomorrow mornng)
<blueonyx> then i entered the username again and it asked for a password
<sbalneav> You probably just needed to restart the client, the passwd and shadow file were unneccessary.
<sbalneav> did you also do the ltsp-update-sshkeys, like I said?
<blueonyx> i restart the thin client
<blueonyx> removed the passwd and shadow and ran ltsp-update-sskeys
<sbalneav> you deleted the shadow and password file?!?!?!
<blueonyx> no
<blueonyx> restored the state before i copied the server's passwd to the chroot environment
<sbalneav> ok, you'll need the old ones.
<sbalneav> but you shouldn't need the users info down on the thin client.
<sbalneav> that all comes from the server.
<moquist> ogra: hey! 
<sbalneav> moquist: he's probably on his way to Poland today.
<cliebow_>  moquist:Ho
<ogra> sbalneav, not yet ... but extremely busy sorting my travel stuff ...
<sbalneav> Well, I was close :)
<ogra> somehow the train i was booked for got shut down ... so i had to rebook all my stuff and get a flight etc ...
<blueonyx> sbalneav, now the xserver on the thinclient restarts after entering the user and its password
<blueonyx> the login screen turns into black with a white circle in the middle (yeah mouse seems not to work) and after a while the login screen comes back
<sbalneav> You're using the default lts.conf file, correct?
<blueonyx> using the admin user from the server works not, but another user works : /
<blueonyx> sure
<sbalneav> Are you logged in on the server as the admin user?
<sbalneav> Gnome doesn't like two people logged in at the same time as the same user.
<sbalneav> If another user works, then it's OK
<blueonyx> i dont use gnome on the server
<blueonyx> just ssh
<blueonyx> but this is a problem
<ogra> yu need a desktop on the server, how else should ltsp work ?
<blueonyx> it is installed
<sbalneav> So you created another user, and logged in with that user, and it worked, right?
<blueonyx> but i dont logging on that machine graphically, because there is no monitor for the server
<blueonyx> sbalneav, right
<sbalneav> ok, but if you log in as the admin user, it DOESN'T work, right?
<blueonyx> hm if gnome cannot handle the same user logged in twice its not the right choice for me : /
<blueonyx> right
<sbalneav> Check the admin user's .xsession-errors file, see what it says.
<blueonyx> i want to put edubuntu on 8 old machines for all students of my shool for surfing the internet
<sbalneav> all logged in as the same user?
<blueonyx> of course
<sbalneav> That won't work, Firefox or mozilla won't start multple times, you'll have to have separate users.
<blueonyx> damn right : /
<blueonyx> whats with LDAP?
<sbalneav> What about ldap?
<blueonyx> we still have a netware server here ...
<blueonyx> does ldap the job?
<sbalneav> You could have the users picked up via ldap, yes.
<sbalneav> depending on the ldap server.
<blueonyx> and is combining this with the edubuntu thinclient and server possible?
<sbalneav> Well, Ubuntu has all the ldap bits available, you'd just have to configure them.  What kind of ldap server is it?  A "standard" one, like openldap, or something like AD?
<blueonyx> it's the ldap server of netware6
<sbalneav> I run an OpenLDAP server here, and I run nothing but thin clients, all with LDAP authentication, so I know it can be done.
<sbalneav> I'm not familiar with netware's LDAP server, you'd have to read up on it.
<blueonyx> where to start?
<sbalneav> Ummm, google?
<blueonyx> k
<sbalneav> Don't know, like I say, I'm unfamiliar with netware's LDAP server.
<sbalneav> If you're not caring about actual usernames, why not just create users like "terminal1", "terminal2", etc, and just have them log in with that?
<blueonyx> can a 1.4 ghz 512mb machine handle this?
<blueonyx> for 8 machines
<ogra> you need 256M for running the server and ~128M per attached client ... 
<ogra> so that would give you 2, with luck even 3 clients ... you need more ram
<ogra> (with luck== there are some overlaps, if everybody uses the same apps memory is shared a lot)
<blueonyx> nkay
<blueonyx> thank you so far
<blueonyx> bye
#edubuntu 2006-11-22
<Burgundavia> ogra: ping
<Yagisan> anyone know how I can get my edgy clients to give a verbose boot up ?
<Yagisan> I already removed "splash" and "quiet" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default
<Yagisan> I need this, as all of my thin clients have stopped booting today
<Yagisan> I see them transfer a kernel
<Yagisan> then the screen flashes, and they stop booting
<Amaranth> that should have done it
<Amaranth> (removing splash and quiet)
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> all I get is a black screen
* Yagisan decides to try blowing away the chroot and trying again
<zch> hi
<zch> can I install student-control-panel 0.4.4 on dapper?
<cbx33> Hi all long time no see
* Yagisan_ waves to cbx33 
<cbx33> hey Yagisan_ 
<cbx33> howz it goin old buddy
<Yagisan_> cbx33, good & bad
<Yagisan_> cbx33, last semesters uni was 1 credit, 1 pass (C++ O_o), and 1 fail (just short of the marks needed for a pass)
<cbx33> oh damn
<Yagisan_> very hot hrere at the moment, bushfires a galore
<highvoltage> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> pong pong
<cbx33> highvoltage: 
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: have you ever had a problem with usplash where you just got a blank screen on bootup?
<cbx33> once
<cbx33> i now have black and white on amd 64
<highvoltage> can you remember what you did to fix it?
<Yagisan> odd - xchat crashed
<cbx33> i don't think I did
<cbx33> I think I reinstalled
<cbx33> as it was a testing box
<cbx33> any bugs on LP about it?
<highvoltage> cbx33: and should the resolution be 640x480, or 640x400, there seems to be conflicting suggestions on this.
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, but not with answers :/
<cbx33> highvoltage: again I have had the same issues
<cbx33> I think it's 640x400
<cbx33> the only time I had a problem was when creating my own usplash images
<highvoltage> yes, I'm creating my own one here.
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> I never got it to work myself
<cbx33> I sent it to ogra
<cbx33> ask Dennis
<highvoltage> ah
<zch> hi
<zch> is it possiple to control with s-c-p NX-Sessions
<zch> It guess it shouldn't be to hard
<zch> If I understand it right,  a LTSP-Client connect trough SSH -X and starts the X-Server
<zch> I tried to connect with the NX-Client and execute "/etc/X11/Xsession", but the NX-Client user do not show up in s-c-p
<paolob-parroquia> guys, I couldn't solve the problem of how to modify all the students' menu with one operation. In dapper I used "sudo smeg --root", how do I do in edgy? thank you!
<paolob-parroquia> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=372861 is about asking for the possibility to modify globally menus in alacarte. Anyone could ask alacarte's developpers to implement it?
<paolob-parroquia> in edubuntu is vital to have to possibility to modify all the menus in a snapshot
<blueonyx> hi
<blueonyx> i am back again with a isa network card problem : (
<blueonyx> the thin client detects the isa card right but it seems not to load the needed module, because ipconfig finds no device
<blueonyx> why does it behave this way?
<bddebian> Howdy
<blueonyx> hi
<bddebian> Hello blueonyx
<juliux> does somebody know if it is possible to have more then one pxe images in /var/lib/tftpboot and you can choose the image at the client?
<juliux> i want to use the edubuntu ltps server also for installations via pxe
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> you can
<cbx33> i think
<juliux> and how?
<cbx33> you set a filename option in the dhcp server
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hello juliux
<willvdl> urk. see you all at the meeting
<highvoltage> seeya there will
<stgraber> hi
<sbalneav> Hello stgraber
<nixternal> meeting today i see
<stgraber> Any up to date meeting agenda is available somewhere ?
<pygi> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> pygi, pong
<pygi> edubuntugirl: tell ogra I'm very sorry for what I'm about to do ...
<edubuntugirl> Righto, pygi!
<Seveas> I made edubuntugirl crash :/
<Seveas> <Seveas> edubuntugirl, config reply.whenaddressedby.chars
<Seveas> <-- edubuntugirl has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
<pygi> Seveas: joy, now she forgot what I said :-/
<LaserJock> pygi: you gonna stay around?
<pygi> LaserJock: what do you mean?
<LaserJock> for the meeting?
<pygi> when is the meeting? 
<sbalneav> 20 minutes
<pygi> probably will, but I won't be of use for anything
<pygi> LaserJock: is there anything you need me for?
<LaserJock> is there anybody to give an Edubuntu Handbook status report
<sbalneav> Me, I suppose :)
<pygi> oh, ok, I can do that one final time
<pygi> and sbalneav can do =)
<LaserJock> pygi: so are you leaving Ubuntu for a time?
<pygi> LaserJock: nah, just ignore me please
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to ignore
<LaserJock> :-)
<pygi> I do, so let's just forget it ^_^
<LaserJock> ok, you're call
<pygi> thanks ^_^
<pygi> :)*
<LaserJock> hehe
<lucasvo> pygi: why are you leaving ubuntu?
<LaserJock> lucasvo: he didn't say he was
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder where oliver is
<sbalneav> On a train to Poland :)
<rodarvus> ogra and RichEd won't be here today for the meeting
<LaserJock> so he won't make it?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<sbalneav> Nope
<LaserJock> oh bummer
<rodarvus> as sbalneav said, both of them are travelling to Poland
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Don't kickban me!!! 
* sbalneav cowers in fear
<highvoltage> sbalneav: now why would I do that?
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> oic :)
* LaserJock sticks his tongue out at highvoltage 
<sbalneav> Because I'm a bad, bad mans :)
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> so where's riched and ogra?
<pygi> highvoltage: train to poland
<highvoltage> ah traveling.
<Ricky28269> how do i get ndiswrapper onto edubuntu? it wasn't there so i downloaded the tarball from another computer and copied it over via flash drive, but now the make command isn't found. i'm pretty new to linux - how do i get the make command?
<Burgwork> Ricky28269: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Ndiswrapper
<Ricky28269> well... i've followed the instructions as best i can, and it says to "sudo dpkg -i ndiswrapper-utils_*.deb" in the directory, but there are no .deb files in the directory and dpkg tells me the same
<Ricky28269> even in the debian subfolder, no .deb files...
<lucasvo> Ricky28269: you need to download them
<Ricky28269> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Ndiswrapper#head-c49fa124c9a644ddc4d126256060b93888fe0be3
<Ricky28269> i downloaded the two packages, unzipped them, and that's the folder i'm referring to
<Ricky28269> is there something not listed, or did i miss something?
<Ricky28269> agh.
<Ricky28269> i see it now, sorry.
<Ricky28269> under the Download header, i clicked "list of files" and it gave me a list of files (surprise!) but i didn't see any download links, i looked further down the page and i guess i ended up downloading a source package (again)
<Ricky28269> ok so more problems, and this time i really don't know what i'm doing, i'm just following the commands at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51993 - the "iwconfig wlan0" returns "wlan0   No such device". what is wrong and how do i fix it? every command up til that one worked fine.
<Burgwork> Ricky28269: you need the 4th step, not the 5th one
<Ricky28269> i already did that one
<Ricky28269> it returned "Adding "alias wlan0 ndiswrapper" to /etc/modprobe.d/ndiswrapper"
<Ricky28269> should i restart or something?
<Burgwork> if you do 4, you don't need to do 5
<Burgwork> now follow 8
<Ricky28269> how do i configure it with a static IP instead? I don't want DHCP
<Burgwork> that happens after
<Ricky28269> ok so i run dhcpclient wlan0, and then what?
<Burgwork> no, that does dhcp
<Ricky28269> oh. dhcpclient: command not found
<Burgwork> have you setup ndiswrapper?
<Ricky28269> yes
<Burgwork> then edit /etc/interfaces
<Ricky28269> i don't see /etc/interfaces
<stgraber> /etc/network/interfaces
<Burgwork> ya, that
<mhz> hmm
<Ricky28269> hmm. ok so i have it open. can you tell me the steps to perform, or point me towards a help file?
<stgraber> you can have a look at : man interfaces
<Burgwork> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-gateway.en.html
<Ricky28269> what does the "lo" mean in "auto lo [interface] " ?
<Burgwork> that is loopback
<Burgwork> you need wlan0
<mhz> or ath0 ?
<Ricky28269> ok so from looking at the man pages, i need to add "iface wlan0 inet static" "address 192.168.1.35" "netmask 255.255.255.0" - where is the name server entry?
<mhz> if atheros, of course
<Burgwork> /etc/resolv.conf
<stgraber> it's in /etc/resolv.conf
<Ricky28269> also how would i specify the access point and WEP key? (yes i know about WPA :))
<stgraber> there is a syntax for the in interfaces (not for WPA but for WEP)
<stgraber> wireless-essid XXXXXXXXXXX
<stgraber> wireless-key XXXXXXXX
<stgraber> I'm not sure of the format for the key, if it doesn't work, try to add s: before it
<Ricky28269> ok. and i need a reboot or i can just run a command? cause i know how linux hardly ever needs reboots :)
<Burgwork> no need to reboot
<stgraber> /etc/init.d/networking restart should reload all the interfaces
<stgraber> you can also : ifdown interface && ifup interface
<Ricky28269> and how can i see the status of my connections?
<Burgwork> ifconfig
<Burgwork> and iwconfig for wireless specific stuff
<Ricky28269> arg. there is an eth1 but no wlan0 in iwconfig, and eth1 is showing wireless stuff
<stgraber> so, it's eth1
<Ricky28269> well that's weird :)
<Ricky28269> gotta change the conf file again.
<stgraber> nope :)
<Ricky28269> it's not weird?
<stgraber> some drivers use athX, some other ethX, some wifiX and some wlanX :)
<stgraber> but, you can assign the name you want in /etc/iftab
<Ricky28269> yikes. now the network interface restart says permission denied........ oh. sudo.
<Ricky28269> lol i guess i just automatically sudo'd the last time i restarted network interfaces
<Ricky28269> ESSID still says off/any, before and after adding s: to it
<stgraber> weird
<stgraber> try :
<stgraber> iwconfig eth1 essid "your essid"
<stgraber> iwconfig eth1 enc s:yourkey
<Ricky28269> the first one just returned a new line, i guess no errors, the second one said Error for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A) : SET failed
<stgraber> try with : iwconfig eth1 key s:yourkey
<Ricky28269> same error
<Ricky28269> and same without s: for both commands
<stgraber> is there any error message at the bottom of : dmesg ?
<Ricky28269> SET failed on device eth1 ; Unknown error 524
<stgraber> anything else related to wireless above ?
<Ricky28269> nope
<Ricky28269> just "Error for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A)", (next line) "SET failed on device eth1 ; Unknown error 524."
<stgraber> so it appears that something is going wrong with ndiswrapper and the WEP ...
<stgraber> if you do : iwlist eth1 scanning
<stgraber> do you see your network ?
<Ricky28269> eth1   No scan results
<Ricky28269> and there are 5 or 6 networks around here... 2 of them inside this house
<stgraber> ok, so let just try a stupid thing : ifconfig eth1 up
<stgraber> and then : iwlist eth1 scanning again
<Ricky28269> same, No scan results
<Ricky28269> i will be right back
<stgraber> are you sure you loaded you driver correctly ?
<sbalneav> Headin' home for the day.
<sbalneav> See you all tomorrow.
<stgraber> good night everyone, see you tomorrow
<ajmitch> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey ajmitch 
<cbx33> what can I do for you
<ajmitch> just saying hello
<Ricky28269> stgraber: sorry it took forever, "can you help with cooking real quick" turned into "cut the ends off of 2 bowls of green beans" :)
<cbx33> heh howz it going
<cbx33> heheh
<Ricky28269> so... it is the correct driver, and i loaded it with the procedure on that site
<Ricky28269> i'm assuming it's loaded correctly then, if ndiswrapper is doing its job
<Ricky28269> well it appears stgraber left... :(
#edubuntu 2006-11-23
<cliebow>  UBUNTU ROCKS!!
<Ricky28269> YES IT DOES
<Ricky28269> is there a way I can get Windows+L to lock the computer, like it does in Windows XP? I know it's kinda funny, using windows shorcuts in ubuntu, but I'm VERY used to hitting Win+L as I walk away...
<Ricky28269> also how do i move the stuff in the top-right of the screen? (vol control, time/date, log off)
<Ricky28269> actually just the volume control
<bimberi> Ricky28269: To use the windows key in keyboard shortcuts as a modifier (like ALT): Run 'xmodmap' and see what Super_L corresponds to.  Then follow method B at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=79560 and use <mod4> (or whatever Super_L corresponded to with 'xmodmap') as the modifier. For example, a shortcut to use windows key + d would look like '<mod4>d'
<bimberi> Ricky28269: you need to right-click and uncheck 'Lock to Panel' for it and other panel items that prevent it from moving
<Ricky28269> oh haha i thought i already unchecked it. well then that's good to know everything can be moved
<Ricky28269> what is the command that locks the computer?
<bimberi> Ricky28269: you've got me there :)  I guess its done by sending a signal to gnome-screensaver which is always running
<Ricky28269> hmm. well there has to be a way to do it, there is a way to do everything in linux lol
<bimberi> of course ;
<bimberi> )
<Ricky28269> i might have found a clue but i don't know exactly what it is or how to interpret it as a command... look at /usr/share/acpi-support/screenblank
<Ricky28269> i have no idea about linux scripting but one line says "su $user -c "(xscreensaver-command -lock)""
<Ricky28269> what is the "su" program? it is saying Authentication failure to my password
<bimberi> !sudo | Ricky28269
<ubotu> Ricky28269: sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
<Ricky28269> not sudo... su
<Ricky28269> i know about sudo, i love it :-D
<bimberi> Ricky28269: kk, i was suggesting an alternative :)
<Ricky28269> oh well i figured maybe it was a command but still, not found with sudo
<Ricky28269> i didn't know su was a sort of sudo until a second ago
<bimberi> hm, there's no 'xscreensaver-command' on my install
<Ricky28269> oh, i think i just realized why...
<Ricky28269> ubuntu uses gnome-screensaver, not xscreensaver
<Ricky28269> they seem to be two different programs
<bimberi> yes
<Ricky28269> yay!
<Ricky28269> gnome-screensaver-command --lock
<bimberi> well done!!
<Ricky28269> and the Windows+L keybind is successful. thanks for your help! :)
<bimberi> no problem :)
<Ricky28269> ugh. still got plenty more things to do to get my very first ubuntu machine completely configured...
<Ricky28269> i spent hours today trying to get my wireless device working lol
<Ricky28269> next step is to get an efficient video driver so that i can play games and stuff like that. even the Cosmos screen saver runs at about 5 fps (judging just by eye)
<Ricky28269> do you have any recommendations on places to get linux drivers such as a driver for my ATI Radeon 9600SE?
<bimberi> !ati
<ubotu> To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
<bimberi> (all i know) :)
<bimberi> !wireless
<ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<Ricky28269> :)
<Ricky28269> yeah i used that documentation
<Ricky28269> i had ndiswrapper, i had the device detected, i had a static IP, my config files were fine
<Ricky28269> finally after tons of retrying and researching i found out that some linux drivers were conflicting (and winning, i guess) so i had to add 4 blacklist entries and then it magically worked
<bimberi> well done again - seems your problem solving skills are well developed :)
<bimberi> ubotu: winkey is <reply> To use the windows key in keyboard shortcuts as a modifier (like ALT): Run 'xmodmap' and see what Super_L corresponds to.  Then follow method B at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=79560 and use <mod4> (or whatever Super_L corresponded to with 'xmodmap') as the modifier. For example, a shortcut to use windows key + d would look like '<mod4>d'
<ubotu> I'll remember that, bimberi
<chovynz> I have the application menu open. I have selected the particular application I want to edit the command line of...
<chovynz> What is the command to open this application as root? 
<chovynz> *I have the menu entry editor open
<kgoetz_> hi all
<kgoetz_> can i set different configuration/run a boot script depending on client mac address?
<kgoetz> disadvantage of screen : forgetting your already connected
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<jsgotangco> Hi!
<sbalneav> Hey jsgotangco!
<willvdl> woohoo
<jsgotangco> Hey its been a while how are things?
<willvdl> buuuuusy
<willvdl> who here was at UDS?
<cbx33> hey willvdl 
<willvdl> woot
<jsgotangco> Same here...i have no computer too...doing irc on a phone at the moment
<willvdl> yeah but you got some nifty phone thing :)
<jsgotangco> pc and laptop got trashed at the same time no $ to fix them at the moment
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I want a linux phone
<jsgotangco> Been reading a lot of books lately though
<cbx33> good good
<jsgotangco> Im halfway through an RSA book heheheh
<willvdl> ah geek books ;)
<jsgotangco> Hehe and a biography too
* cbx33 got a book on python
<Ricky28269> Hi, how do I add a standby button to the turn off screen?
<sbalneav> A "Standby" button?
<sbalneav> What does standby do?
<willvdl> as in hibernate-lite?
<willvdl> http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2006/11/23/open-source-software-in-education-in-the-uk
<jsgotangco> cbx33: for what its worth, a peer of mine working at MS had his laptop running vista ultimate failed to switch to a projector and presented without slides at all at a recent conference
<cbx33> haha
<jsgotangco> Its true really shameful
<cbx33> the fact the ubuntu doesn't do it or vista
<willvdl> it's gonna be a feisty spec ;)
<Ricky28269> So... there is no standby button then?
<cbx33> is it ?
<Ricky28269> Isn't there such thing as standby in the Ubuntu world??
<cbx33> I have it on mine
<willvdl> as in Suspend?
<sbalneav> I usually just hit Suspend
<Ricky28269> sbalneav: standby puts the computer in a low-power state, keeping data in RAM but shutting off all other devices. It also allows certain devices to wake the computer from standby, for instance the keyboard and mouse buttons
<Ricky28269> yeah sure Suspend. Where is that?
<sbalneav> OK, That's suspend.
<willvdl> suspend.
<Ricky28269> Windows XP calls it standby. but ok
<willvdl> as in "suspend to disk" moot point
<Ricky28269> When I click the door button thing it shows Log out, lock screen, switch user, hibernate, restart, shut down
<Ricky28269> where is suspend?
<sbalneav> If the power manager detects that your computer supports it the way Linux wants it, it should put it on the power manager for you.
<sbalneav> OK, the power manager doesn't think your computer can suspend.
<Ricky28269> Can I change its way of thinking?
<willvdl> is it a laptop?
<Ricky28269> Nope
<sbalneav> You might want to google around for your motherboard.  It might need a bios update.
<Ricky28269> I suppose I'll try hibernate one more time. But last night, after I installed Ubuntu and configured it and was ready for bed, I hit hibernate and it turned off like expected, but this morning I turned it on and it froze during the Mount step so I shut it off and turned it back on, and then my disk had problems which (luckily) were fixed with fsck.
<sbalneav> A lot of times, if a box won't suspend, it's because it's because it's APM isn't at a level that Linux needs.
<willvdl> sbalneav, can one not just edit the acpi modes in /sys/ ?
<sbalneav> willvdl: Don't think so.
<sbalneav> I've usually solved it in the past by updating bioses.
<Ricky28269> Ok so I just hit hibernate, it shut off, now let's see what happens when I try to un-hibernate it.
<Ricky28269> Whoa
<Ricky28269> It just... 
<Ricky28269> eh.
<Ricky28269> It showed the Ubuntu screen with loading drivers and mounting root file system, and then the screen went yellow and... wait I guess that's normal, I have the login box now
<Ricky28269> ok it worked. I don't know why it got stuck this morning, but if I have any problems I'll ask them here. I suppose I can live with hibernate instead of standby.
<amachu> is there an edubuntu ppt available for download
<sbalneav> ppt?
<sbalneav> Powerpoint?
<amachu> sbalneav, sorry for that..
<amachu> sbalneav, presentation
<amachu> sbalneav, OO :_0
<Ricky28269> LOL
<amachu> sbalneav, :-)
<sbalneav> Not sure what you're asking for...
<amachu> sbalneav, I am contact person of Ubuntu Tamil Team
<Ricky28269> sbalneav are you being naive on purpose or do you really have no knowledge of Microsoft/Windows stuff?
<amachu> sbalneav, we have got contact of few schools
<amachu> sbalneav, they are interested in edubuntu
<amachu> sbalneav, we plan to project edubuntu
<sbalneav> Ricky28269: I don't run Windows anymore, and haven't since 1998, but I know what a powerpoint presentation is, just wasn't sure if that was what he was asking for.
<amachu> sbalneav, is there any OO presentation that's available for edubuntu?
<sbalneav> amachu: I have no idea.  Have you checked on the wiki?
<amachu> i have to
<amachu> sbalneav, i will also check in edubuntu installation
<amachu> :-)
<Ricky28269> sbalneav: oh, wow. since 1998... Who do you work for that doesn't use Windows? I mean, Windows XP has pretty much dominated the corporate world for the last 3 or 4 years, it's hard not to be in contact with it
<sbalneav> either jsgotangco or highvoltage may have one.
<sbalneav> Ricky28269: I work for Legal Aid Manitoba.  We've been all Linux since about 2000.
<sbalneav> I've never used Win XP.
<Ricky28269> amachu: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Presentations
<Ricky28269> Well you don't know what you're missing. Which, I guess, is a good thing. There are ups and downs to Windows, and I'm sure Linux is cleaner, but so far I have found a much easier/better time with Windows than I have with Ubuntu...
<amachu> Ricky28269, thank u
<Ricky28269> Ubuntu doesn't play nice with NTFS partitions which caused me to lose my desktop partition and almost lose my laptop's too... Long story, basically I could have saved my desktop had I known about a partition recovery program TestDisk... But anyway. yeah. That was a pain.
<Ricky28269> And then it took me about 5+ hours to configure my USB wireless device
<Ricky28269> and it's not like it's brand new, cutting-edge... I've had it for over a year so I expected to find drivers easily enough
<Ricky28269> And then this morning, and I haven't even been using Ubuntu for 24 hours, the hibernate screwed up and the hard drive had some errors that didn't let Ubuntu boot so it went into some safe mode thing and made me fsck
<Ricky28269> So, yeah. Ubuntu hasn't been very good to me - yet.
<Ricky28269> oh, and amachu - no problem. I just googled edubuntu presentations lol
<sbalneav> Converting from existing hardware's always a problem, as hardware manufacturers don't always provide Linux compatible drivers, or information that allows Free Software programmers to write ones.
<sbalneav> What happens is, after a while, you end up simply buying hardware that DOES have good linux support.
<sbalneav> So, for wireless, you get centrino based devices
<Ricky28269> Yeah. Well it turned out that ndiswrapper worked fine for it, except 4 other drivers were conflicting with it so I reinstalled a few times and then finally found some guy's post about 4 blacklist entries that I had to add and it worked great.
<Ricky28269> It was a Netgear WG111
<Ricky28269> But I see what you're saying, I was just expecting things to "just work" like they do on Macs and generally do on Windows XP
<Ricky28269> Anyway... family just arrived, so I've gotta go mingle with the locals.
<Ricky28269> I'll be back if I have more problems - which I probably will ;)
<sbalneav> We'll be here.
<jsgotangco> Laptops hmmm?
<sbalneav> Yeah, I just bought a laptop down at uds.
<sbalneav> System76
<sbalneav> Came with Ubuntu pre-installed.
<sbalneav> Intel video
<sbalneav> Centrino wireless
<sbalneav> I can switch between the external video connector and the screen properly.
<sbalneav> I love it.
<Ricky28269> OK now I'm having trouble setting up Samba...
<Ricky28269> When I try to connect from my Windows machine to my edubuntu machine, it asks for an username and password, but I have it set to allow all machines and guests, so why is it asking? What would I put in, or do I have something configured wrong?
<stgraber> hello everyone
<stgraber> Ricky28269: Does your ndiswrapper work ?
<Ricky28269> Yep
<stgraber> fine
<cbx33> Ricky28269, I had that exact problem today
<Ricky28269> I got it working
<Ricky28269> It was conflicting with 4 built-in drivers, so I had to blacklist them
<cbx33> I've not solved it either
<stgraber> I also had this problem and solved it, but I just need to find the answer again :)
<Ricky28269> Really? It's an odd problem, and I guess the only way would be to add each of the users that should be connecting because I think Windows by default accesses a remote computer with the currently logged on user's name
<cbx33> please
<cbx33> please
<Ricky28269> Yes definitely, find that answer please!
<Ricky28269> Or copy your conf file, maybe that would reveal the thing that we are missing
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> yeh i tried a whole bunch of things
<cbx33> it should work OOTB
<Ricky28269> yep.
<Ricky28269> but I was thinking maybe ubuntu has a firewall that I don't know about
<cbx33> or at least I should be able to use my linux user/pass to access the sahre
<cbx33> no it doens't
<stgraber> first, you have to create a samba account for the guest login
<Ricky28269> I really don't know much about ubuntu at all
<stgraber> for example : smbpasswd -a nobody
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> that should be in the shared folders program
<cbx33> not fair otherwise
<Ricky28269> i just did that... nothing new.
<stgraber> then once you have a guest account, map it to the Windows guest account with : guest account = nobody
<Ricky28269> ah, ok.
<Ricky28269> how do you tell samba to default to guest ok = yes? or does it default to it anyway?
<cbx33> Ricky28269, please if you get it working can u summarise what you had to do
<Ricky28269> sure
<Ricky28269> how do you restart the samba server after changing a conf file?
<stgraber> /etc/init.d/samba reload
<Ricky28269> tyvm, i had been just restarting the whole computer each time lo
<Ricky28269> *lol
<stgraber> the only thing you must restart your computer is a kernel change
<Ricky28269> ok so I did both things - i created account nobody with no password, and then i added the guest account line. it still asks for user and pass
<stgraber> I just tried here and it works, so I'm posting my smb.conf somewhere
<stgraber> btw, I had to add : guest ok = yes
<stgraber> to the share section
<stgraber> and be sure to have : security = user
<Ricky28269> ah, security = user might be my problem
<stgraber> I only had problem with security = share
<stgraber> and you can do exactly the same from my point of view
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33492/
<stgraber> It's a samba PDC config (Domain Controler), so only take care of the 4 first paragraphs in the General part and the Test share
<Ricky28269> i think i need to wikipedia WINS
<Ricky28269> what is it used for? wp doesn't tell much
<stgraber> WINS is used to do the translation between the Windows computer name and the IPs
<stgraber> It's used for example when you do \\server
<Ricky28269> so I don't need it then
<stgraber> Windows check : Active directory (if one), WINS, the HOST file and finally the DNS
<Ricky28269> well it already works by putting \\ricky2 (ubuntu comp is ricky2) so i guess I don't need it, or it's on by default
<stgraber> no, it's not important if you are already in a Windows workgroup or if you always specify the IP or your DNS name
<cbx33> heh
<Ricky28269> password level = 0
<Ricky28269> i don't have that.
<Ricky28269> is that the solution?
<stgraber> not really important
<stgraber> nope
<Ricky28269> ok
<stgraber> it's used for some old Windows (95 and 98) which weren't case sensitive
<stgraber> you solution is more line : 14-16, 20, 24 and 99-105
<Ricky28269> do i need the admin users thing?
<Ricky28269> and invalid users
<stgraber> invalid users is a good idea
<stgraber> admin users isn't useful in my opinion
<Ricky28269> also the two masks - are they required? I thought that's what browseable and writable determined?
<Ricky28269> also... are those the spellings? I just know I would get them messed up - if I were to up browsable and writeable, would samba know anyway or would those be ignored?
<Ricky28269> -up +put
<Ricky28269> and, testparm doesn't seem to read most of the lines. does that mean they are set to defaults, or why does it ignore a lot of lines?
<Ricky28269> yay it works tho
<cbx33> you got it working?
<Ricky28269> yeah, hold on a minute and i'll post my very basic conf file so that you can see what i did
<cbx33> dude you rock
<cbx33> thanks ;)
<Ricky28269> i keep forgetting "sudo" lol
<Ricky28269> and it gives me permission errors
<Ricky28269> ok so, after experimenting just now, apparently you can't have spaces in the folders. not the share names, but the actual folder names that you are sharing on the ubuntu box
<Ricky28269> i made /home/ricky/Shared Folder and i put it in the conf file as /home/ricky/Shared\ Folder but nevertheless, samba gave access denied
<Ricky28269> and then i just renamed to /home/ricky/shared and it works great. now i'm pasting
<Ricky28269> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33498
<Ricky28269> cbx33: don't forget to do sudo smbpasswd -a nobody and hit enter twice (blank password)
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<cbx33> thanks dude
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<Ricky28269> ok so, now i can scratch another thing from my mental to-do list for setting up edubuntu :)
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<Ricky28269> i should probably be documenting this for myself so that if my machine gets screwed i don't have to go through these pains again lol
<cbx33> LaserJock, dude you ok to talk for a while?
<Ricky28269> oh great. my samba pains are not over yet...
<cbx33> :(
<Ricky28269> i am thinking the "nobody" user doesn't have write permissions to my shared folder 
<LaserJock> cbx33: I think so for a bit
<LaserJock> cbx33: I'm at home
<Ricky28269> i think i need a chmod.
<Ricky28269> i have no idea about linux permissions...
<Ricky28269> :S
<Ricky28269> if someone here can help... how do i allow the nobody user read and write permission to a directory?
<cbx33> you could add them to the group of the person who already has permission?
<stgraber> I'm back
<Ricky28269> i think i need to add a group called shared, and then add the nobody user to that group, and then... something.
<stgraber> oh, great it worked
<Ricky28269> yay stgraber is back, he can help
<stgraber> :)
<Ricky28269> :)
<stgraber> for your directory, if everyone should be able to write, just do :
<stgraber> chmod 777 yourdirectory
<stgraber> and put 0666 for create mask and 0777 for directory mask
<Ricky28269> so it is possible to chmod directories then?
<stgraber> otherwise, yes you can play with the groups
<cbx33> eeeeeeeekkkk
<cbx33> 777 noooooo
<stgraber> cbx33: what permission would you set to allow everyone for entering, writing and reading a directory ?
<Ricky28269> lol
<cbx33> i wouldn't I'd give a group access to write
<cbx33> and make everyone a member of it
<cbx33> 777 is bad news
<Ricky28269> there should be a 777.com
<stgraber> well, as samba will do everything in this directory as nobody
<Ricky28269> it's a gambling site.
<Ricky28269> how lame.
<stgraber> you can simply chmod it as 700
<stgraber> and 0600/0700 for samba
<stgraber> then chown it to nobody
<Ricky28269> chown. hehe. looks like clown.
<stgraber> doing a group for one user is hmmm, ... not that useful
<Ricky28269> clown it to nobody :-D
<cbx33> I'll clown you in a minute ;)
<Ricky28269> lol
<stgraber> :)
<cbx33> stop chowning around
<Ricky28269> it seems weird, making nobody the owner of a subdirectory of /home/ricky
<stgraber> yes, it's :)
<Ricky28269> i think i need to put the shared folder somewhere else
<stgraber> you should do a /data or something like this
<Ricky28269> yeah i'll just make /shared
<stgraber> not doing everything in your own home directory
<Ricky28269> do i need the 600/700 for samba?
<stgraber> you don't need them but it's better
<stgraber> as Windows make everything executable
<Ricky28269> ohhh i see
<Ricky28269> the create mask... i see.
<stgraber> that's the Unix permission used when creating a file or directory
<Ricky28269> well now i can't browse the shared share
<Ricky28269> and i DID change the conf file to reflect /shared instead of /home/ricky/shared, so that's not the problem...
<stgraber> and what's the permission and owner/groups on /shared ?
<Ricky28269> i did chmod 700 /shared and then chown nobody /shared
<stgraber> did you reload samba ?
<Ricky28269> yep
<Ricky28269> how do i enable my user account to access /shared now? lol
<stgraber> ok, in that case you need group :)
<Ricky28269> well then.
<stgraber> groupadd the-name-you-want
<Ricky28269> yeah cause i kinda would like to be able to access my files that i copy over lol
<stgraber> or more addgroup
<stgraber> addgroup the-name-you-want
<Ricky28269> shared would be a find group name right? or is it a restricted keyword that would cause problems?
<Ricky28269> -find +fine
<stgraber> I think you can use it
<Ricky28269> ok
<Ricky28269> added
<stgraber> then : adduser your-username shared
<stgraber> and : adduser nobody shared
<Ricky28269> it is done
<stgraber> then : chmod 770 /shared
<stgraber> and : chown nobody.shared /shared
<stgraber> (it will only apply on the directory not it's content)
<Ricky28269> k
<stgraber> then change in your smb.conf
<stgraber> create mask 0660
<stgraber> directory mask 0770
<Ricky28269> i don't have permission to see the shared folder again lol
<stgraber> force group = shared
<Ricky28269> shared is still access denied from windows xp
<stgraber> and can you access it from your user ?
<Ricky28269> no
<Ricky28269> "You do not have the permissions necessary to view the contents of "shared"."
<stgraber> ok, I never know when Linux read the groups ...
<stgraber> try to open a new terminal
<Ricky28269> can i do something like chown shared /shared or chown *.shared /shared ?
<stgraber> and cd /shared
<Ricky28269> Permission denied
<stgraber> chown nobody.shared /shared as I said before
<Ricky28269> yeah i did that
<Ricky28269> but maybe that is the problem?
<stgraber> nobody is the user and shared the group
<stgraber> both have all rights on the directory (770)
<Ricky28269> i just chmod'ed 777 and now i can access it lol
<Ricky28269> but of course
<stgraber> ok, well opening a terminal doesn't reload your groups list
<stgraber> try closing/reopening your session
<Ricky28269> so.... log out, log back in?
<Ricky28269> too late, already did :)
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> here it works
<Ricky28269> and now i can access the shared folder locally
<Ricky28269> but not from windows xp
<stgraber> ok, that's the same problem with samba I think
<stgraber> try : /etc/init.d/samba stop
<stgraber> then : /etc/init.d/samba start
<stgraber> that will reload samba completly not just making it reread the config file
<Ricky28269> awesome, it works :)
<stgraber> fine :)
<Ricky28269> how long have you been using linux?
<stgraber> hmm, 7-8 years I think
<Ricky28269> and i've been using it 2 days. :-D
<Ricky28269> well i had about a week of linux, a few months ago, when i put linux on a spare router of mine
<Ricky28269> it's still sitting here, running OpenWRT, but not doing anything. just generating heat i guess.
<stgraber> WRT54G ?
<Ricky28269> WRT54GS
<Ricky28269> close enough :)
<stgraber> It's in my buylist :)
<Ricky28269> hehe
<Ricky28269> i have another linksys router, but it's way too old
<stgraber> Actually I'm using a ZyXEL one but with closed source firmware
<stgraber> and nearly everything nated to my server
<Ricky28269> well i just can't think of any use for it
<stgraber> with OpenWRT you can really do everything you want, like adding IPV6, managing multiple IP addresses, ...
<Ricky28269> although i was going to use it as an automatic wireless thingy, if i couldn't get my usb wireless thing to work on ubuntu
<Ricky28269> like configure it to automatically connect to my wireless router as a client, and then ethernet it to my ubuntu computer
<stgraber> I also saw some OpenWRT capable AP with some USB ports
<stgraber> then you can make a small Data server
<Ricky28269> yeah
<stgraber> with Samba, or put a webserver, ...
<Ricky28269> I do have samba on it
<stgraber> all the stuff you can't do with one of these closed source router
<Ricky28269> samba client tho
<Ricky28269> its 8mb of flash rom wouldn't be of much use lol
<Ricky28269> but i was thinking of having it bittorrent for me and save the torrented stuff on a windows share on one of my computers
<Ricky28269> to take the load off the computer
<stgraber> yes, that's the good point of the USB powered ones, you have a big harddisk :)
<Ricky28269> but then I got a new laptop a couple months ago, so one of my two desktops is now sitting in a corner being a "server" that bittorrents and has remote desktop
<stgraber> indeed, you can use a network share, using NFS or Samba
<Ricky28269> i'm on the laptop right now, it's a BEAST. it's basically my desktop cause the desktop i'm using for ubuntu is about 1/4 of the power lol
<Ricky28269> http://www.rickyc.org/cpuz/
<stgraber> yes, quite the same for me, when I received my new laptop, and I saw I can do everything I did with my Desktop, so I stopped using it and use my laptop all the time
<stgraber> I just use my old desktop as a test computer for Feisty or Edubuntu
<stgraber> (but that will end soon as I'm using VMWare for that now :) )
<Ricky28269> this was my first laptop too, so it's quite the experience for me. lol
<Ricky28269> anyway... let's see, what else do i need to do with edubuntu... hmm
<Ricky28269> oh yeah, cube and sauerbraten
<stgraber> my old desktop is also a Amd Sempron 2600+ :)
<Ricky28269> :)
<Ricky28269> jeez i swear my stereo is haunted...
<stgraber> But you have a really better laptop than mine :)
<Ricky28269> it's behind me, playing the radio, and then it just started staticking
<stgraber> omg, 2GB of ram 
<Ricky28269> hehe. yeah i definitely went all-out on this thing
<Ricky28269> does it show the video card on there? let's see...
<Ricky28269> nope
<Ricky28269> it's the nvidia geforce go 7900gs :)
<Ricky28269> 1920x1200 17" LCD
* Ricky28269 hugs laptop
<stgraber> ok, it's dinner time here, I'll be back in 15 minutes or so
<Ricky28269> ok, bye
<Ricky28269> what is the equivalent of the HOSTS file for linux computers?
<sc0tt> /etc/hosts
<sc0tt> ;)
<Ricky28269> wow, really? interesting.
<sc0tt> Windows stole it from linux :P
<stgraber> if you look at where Windows store the host file, you will see that indeed they have stolen this from Unix :)
<stgraber> c:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts
<stgraber> etc\hosts, do you see something familiar ?
<Ricky28269> yeah, i noticed that when he told me
<Ricky28269> stgraber do you happen to know as much about windows as you do about linux? lol
<Ricky28269> cause i have a weird problem and i have no clue how to go about fixing it
<stgraber> It's always good to well know a system when you hate it :), so you have strong argument against it :)
<stgraber> yes, I may help
<stgraber> (or try at least)
<Ricky28269> A process is loading a DLL, and I want to stop the process from loading the DLL when it starts, but it's an important Windows DLL so it isn't as easy as moving the DLL file. I have to figure out how to basically modify the exe file to tell it not to load the DLL on startup...
<Ricky28269> The DLL is totally unnecessary though, I have no clue why it runs with the process but it has an infinite loop of reads that it is doing, and it takes up about 20% CPU usage (on my dual core - about 40% of 2ghz) and reads the hard drive repeatedly (definitely slowing it down, and extra wear and tear)
<stgraber> yes, but if you do so, the software will not start
<Ricky28269> Really? I don't think so... I killed the DLL thread with SysInternals' ProcessExplorer and the program worked fine
<stgraber> a dll is a library, in itself it does nothing, that's the software that uses the functions provided by the DLL
<Ricky28269> Well I need to stop the software from using the DLL then
<stgraber> uhm, strange, you say that you see the DLL in a process explorer, like a software ?
<Ricky28269> You have never heard of SysInternals?
<Ricky28269> http://www.sysinternals.com - they recently got bought by microsoft but they work just the same
<stgraber> nope, never heard of them
<Ricky28269> and they have an application called ProcessExplorer that is like the Windows Task Manager, on steroids
<Ricky28269> I used it to see the thread using the dll, and I killed that thread, and the reads stopped but the program worked just fine
<Ricky28269> I tried enabling and disabling my wireless adapter, configuring settings, connecting and disconnecting my bluetooth hardware, everything. It all worked normally.
<stgraber> what's the DLL and what's the software ? (just in case I know one of them :) )
<Ricky28269> The software is the WIDCOMM Bluetooth Stack, v5.1.0.1100 - the process is btwdins.exe, the "Bluetooth Support Server"
<Ricky28269> and the DLL is advapi32.dll
<Ricky28269> (in system32 folder)
<Ricky28269> Here's the filemon log: http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=btscreenshotbv6.png
<stgraber> I'm sorry, I don't think I will be able to help this time, all I can say is this DLL is present in the standard Windows and shouldn't be removed and as far as you don't have the sourcecode of the software, I don't see any way to fix that manually
<stgraber> So, the classic Windows solution : Reinstall + Update + Whine on forums
<nixternal> stgraber: or install Linux
<nixternal> ;p
<stgraber> of course :)
<nixternal> firefox needs to pop up a warning when you get redirected to a microsoft website, like "WTH is wrong with you"
<stgraber> or simply redirect you somewhere else :)
<Ricky28269> stgraber: lol
<nixternal> and where you can click on yes to continue, make it so it moves on mouseover
<nixternal> so you can never click yes
<stgraber> yes, I did a little software like that using C# on Windows :)
<nixternal> hehe
<Ricky28269> Okay well 3 minutes til the $100 xbox 360s... i'm going to get set up and clear my router of all traffic :-D
<Ricky28269> i'll be back at 2:05 or so
<Ricky28269> jeez.
<Ricky28269> the amazon servers are down
<Ricky28269> like, way down
<Ricky28269> if there was a word further down than down, that's what they would be
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> .co.uk still alive ;)
<Ricky28269> well yeah. amazon.co.uk was not doing the $100 xbox 360s deal lol
<Ricky28269> i wonder how long it will take for people to give up
<cbx33> could take years ;)
<Ricky28269> and i still don't understand how amazon thought they were going to get a way with this... selling 1,000 xbox 360s at $100 each, they should have known millions of people would try to connect at once and no server or server cluster can handle that much data...
<Ricky28269> well, maybe google
<Ricky28269> i really think it will probably be another hour til any byte of data gets to me lol
<Ricky28269> wow. sold out.
<Ricky28269> makes me really wonder if they even really sold them
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> they will have
<Ricky28269> man i can't stop thinking, that is so impossible
<Ricky28269> someone went through the main screen with the button, then they logged in, then they answered a verification question
<Ricky28269> during that DDOS attack
<stgraber> Anyone around knows how the way to add a package to universe exactly works ? I'm at the submited to revu step and I don't know if I shoul poke someone or anything else
<juliux> stgraber, ask in #ubuntu-motu
<Ricky28269> wow... cube is slow.
<Ricky28269> why.
<Ricky28269> does anyone else have Cube (http://sf.net/projects/cube) running smoothly in Ubuntu?
<stgraber> do you have the 3d acceleration enabled ?
<Ricky28269> i think so
<Ricky28269> i did some steps
<Ricky28269> that i found
<Ricky28269> somewhere.
<Ricky28269> how would i check if i have it enabled?
<stgraber> glxinfo | grep direct
<Ricky28269> direct rendering: no
<Ricky28269> so i think not?
<stgraber> you have a nvidia video card right ?
<Ricky28269> ati
<Ricky28269> radeon 9600SE
<stgraber> ok :)
<Ricky28269> my laptop has an nvidia card
<stgraber> 9600SE, I'm not sure the open source driver works with it, I'll check
<Ricky28269> i think it is right on the edge
<Ricky28269> like, just barely old enough to not work with the ATI drivers
<stgraber> nope it doesn't, ok so you have to install fglrx
<Ricky28269> oh.
<Ricky28269> what is the config file that lists display and card and all that? i modified that one and added some lines of stuff
<stgraber> so no free driver for you, go checking if the proprietary does
<stgraber> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<Ricky28269> yeah that.
<Ricky28269> i added AIGLX true and Extensions Composite enabled and XAANoOffscreenPixmaps
<stgraber> ok, you will have to use fglrx to get 3d acceleration
<stgraber> your driver doesn't support AIGLX
<stgraber> and fglrx won't
<Ricky28269> k
<Ricky28269> should i remove the lines that i added or are they fine?
<stgraber> AIGLX = false
<stgraber> and remove the Extensions part
<Ricky28269> leave the XAANoOffscreenPixmaps?
<stgraber> I don't know this one
<Ricky28269> ok well i'll just take it out, the tutorial thing added it
<stgraber> remove it as well to have a clean xorg.conf
<stgraber> so now : sudo aptitude install xorg-driver-fglrx fglrx-control
<highvoltage> hey stgraber 
<stgraber> hi
<Ricky28269> ok stgraber that command finished
<stgraber> so now edit your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file
<stgraber> find the line where something like : Driver "ati"
<stgraber> or Driver "radeon"
<stgraber> and change ati or radeon by fglrx
<Ricky28269> ok
<Ricky28269> and then you have a secret reload command i presume?
<stgraber> Section "Device" Identifier      "Device0" Driver          "fglrx" BusID           "PCI:1:5:0" Option          "BackingStore" "true" Option          "OpenGLOverlay" "on"
<stgraber> EndSection
<stgraber> I have that, on more lines of course :)
<stgraber> (a small copy/paste bug ...)
<Ricky28269> k, i added those changes
<stgraber> the magic restart cmd is : close your session, once on the login box hit : <ctrl>+<alt>+<backspace>
<stgraber> and your X server will reload itself
<Ricky28269> "The greeter application appears to be crashing. Attempting to use a different one."
<Ricky28269> hmm, new login screen.
<Ricky28269> glxinfo | grep direct - direct rendering: No
<stgraber> lsmod | grep fglrx
<Ricky28269> nothing shown with that command
<stgraber> weird
<stgraber> sudo modprobe fglrx
<Ricky28269> FATAL: Error inserting fglrx (/lib/module...): Operation not permitted
<stgraber> did you do the sudo ?
<Ricky28269> yep
<stgraber> last lines of dmesg ?
<Ricky28269> [fglrx]  Maximum main memory to use for locked dma buffers: 431 MBytes.
<Ricky28269> [fglrx:firegl_init_module]  *ERROR* firegl_stub_register failed
<Ricky28269> it has those two pairs of messages 3 times, at the end of the log
<Ricky28269> and they happen at the same exact time
<Ricky28269> i'm restarting the computer lol
<Ricky28269> maybe it's just my Windows-induced instincts, but whenever something like this happens I feel the need to restart and see if it still happens
<Ricky28269> direct rendering: No (still)
<Ricky28269> 2 lines with the grep fglrx
<Ricky28269> does that mean success?
<Ricky28269> the modprobe is successful
<Ricky28269> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33519/
<Ricky28269> it's not at the end of the dmesg, but a bit up in it
<Ricky28269> stgraber... you still there?
<stgraber> yes
<Ricky28269> ok phew. i thought i lost you :)
<stgraber> I was just away for a few minutes :)
<Ricky28269> i noticed
<Ricky28269> i freaked too
<Ricky28269> lol
<Ricky28269> ok so ... did you know i am using edubuntu 6.06.1, not 6.10?
<Ricky28269> i'm wondering if maybe you are doing something on the assumption that i have 6.10
<stgraber> nope, but the steps should be the same
<Ricky28269> ok
<stgraber> you have the module and fglrx works as a X driver
<Ricky28269> and you read what I said above, right? the pastebin too
<stgraber> yes
<Ricky28269> that's the current situation after the restart.
<stgraber> ok, can you pastebin : dmesg | grep agp
<Ricky28269> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33522/
<stgraber> ok, and : lsmod | grep agp
<Ricky28269> 33523
<Ricky28269> i pasted the grep fglrx too, just in case it helps at all
<Ricky28269> so when this is all done, Direct rendering will say "yes"?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> and you will have a little bit more FPS in the games :)
<Ricky28269> yeah
<Ricky28269> more than a little bit, probably :)
<Ricky28269> cube was running at about 10 fps, and it ran in windows at about 120 so i would expect 200 or so from linux :)
<Ricky28269> i remember one time, I booted a live cd (can't remember which one), downloaded the windows version of cube to it and installed WINE, and then ran it and it ran much faster than windows lol
<Ricky28269> so if WINE runs it faster, i would love to see it natively
<stgraber> found on Google :
<stgraber> sudo echo "base=0xd0000000 size=0x8000000 type=write-combining" > /proc/mtrr
<stgraber> sudo rmmod fglrx
<stgraber> sudo modprobe fglrx
<cbx33> cube?
<Ricky28269> http://sf.net/projects/cube
<stgraber> cbx33: a FPS
<Ricky28269> permission denied on the frist command lol
<Ricky28269> why am i getting permissions denied from the sudo?
<stgraber> hmm, of course you have a permission denied
<stgraber> just because the > /proc/mtrr isn't passed through the sudo ...
<stgraber> sudo -s
<Ricky28269> oh haha
<stgraber> then do : echo "base=0xd0000000 size=0x8000000 type=write-combining" > /proc/mtrr
<Ricky28269> what is -s? i usually do -i
<stgraber> -i use the shell specified in /etc/passwd for root, -s use the current shell
<stgraber> (I didn't know, I just tell you what I have just read from the man page :) )
<Ricky28269> hehe
<Ricky28269> well they seem to be the same, and i just ran those in the -i
<Ricky28269> rmmod and modprobe didn't return anything - i hate when stuff doesn't say "i have been successful! don't worry!"
<Ricky28269> so i should restart again?
<Ricky28269> or is there more?
<stgraber> I personally hate when I have an error message, otherwise everything is good :)
<stgraber> just check the end of dmesg
<stgraber> to see if you still have those error messages
<Ricky28269> it seems to have been successful
<Ricky28269> but i'muna restart anyway :-D
<Ricky28269> the cosmos screensaver was kinda funny too
<Ricky28269> it ran at about 3 fps
<stgraber> k, so restart X (logout + the 3 key thing)
<Ricky28269> i restarted the whole computer, it will be done in a second
<stgraber> hmm, bad Windows user ... :)
<Ricky28269> lol
<Ricky28269> hey, well last time the logout + 3 key thing didn't work
<Ricky28269> i just logged in
<stgraber> well restarting wasn't a good idea in my opinion
<stgraber> as the echo things should be temporary
<stgraber> so : glxinfo | grep direct
<Ricky28269> direct rendering: No
<stgraber> ok, not that weird :)
<Ricky28269> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
<stgraber> hmm, strange
<Ricky28269> is the Mesa part the problem?
<Ricky28269> it has always been there
<stgraber> maybe
<stgraber> just check the end of your dmesg again
<Ricky28269> that error again
<Ricky28269> *ERROR* Process 4260 using kernel context 0
<stgraber> ok, so the steps again, except the reboot :)
<stgraber> echo, rmmod, modprobe
<Ricky28269> ok steps done
<Ricky28269> now logout and 3 keys?
<stgraber> hmm, you can try something else :)
<Ricky28269> ?
<stgraber> /etc/init.d/gdm restart&
<Ricky28269> k
<stgraber> don't forget the final &
<Ricky28269> with or without the & ?
<Ricky28269> ok lol
<Ricky28269> now i'm back at the login screen
<Ricky28269> and i log in...
<Ricky28269> direct rendering: No
<Ricky28269> and the opengl thing
<stgraber> and the end of dmesg ?
<Ricky28269> pasting
<Ricky28269> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33527/
<Ricky28269> Internal AGP is not supported in 2.6 kernel.
<Ricky28269> that sentence makes me nervous
* Ricky28269 is shakin' in his boots
<cbx33> nice 100fps on cube
<stgraber> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep EE
<Ricky28269> what res?
<Ricky28269> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33529/
<stgraber> ok, so it confirms that your problem is more AGP related ...
<sc0tt> hey folks
<stgraber> hi
<Ricky28269> hi
<sc0tt> can edubuntu be installed from an ubuntu install?
<sc0tt> similar to apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<Ricky28269> stgraber: can you tell me how to verify that AIGLX is in fact off?
<cbx33> 1024x768
<stgraber> Ricky28269: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.17/+bug/62547
<cbx33> with bloom on
<Ricky28269> lol yeah i'm reading that
<Ricky28269> one guy said "Turning off AIGLX works."
<Ricky28269> another person said someone didn't have any modules in /lib/modules/2.6.17-10-generic/kernel/drivers/char/agp
<Ricky28269> gah, thanksgiving dinner's ready... and it's only 3:30. i don't get it. my parents are crazy. but whatever.
<Ricky28269> stgraber, i'll be back in probably 45 minutes or so
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> btw, 212FPS here
<Ricky28269> is there a way i can open my machine to remote desktop so that you can mess with it?
<stgraber> with 1280x800 :)
<Ricky28269> i get a steady 60fps at 1920x1200, but that's cause of vsync :-P
<stgraber> if it's directly viewable from the net, I could connect using SSH
<Ricky28269> i'll put it in the zone
<Ricky28269> the thing zone
<Ricky28269> ah yes i remember: DMZ
<stgraber> or just redirect the 22 port to it
<stgraber> but you will need to install : ssh
<stgraber> and add my key in the authorized_keys
<stgraber> hi jono 
<cbx33> bah :p
<cbx33> a nice steady 140 at 1280x1024
<cbx33> peak 180
<cbx33> drops to 60 with bloom on
<cbx33> i need to change mouse sensitivity
<cbx33> anyoe know how?
<stgraber> cbx33: in the config.cfg file
<stgraber> cbx33: the "sensitivity 30" line
<cbx33> cool thanx
<stgraber> np
<cbx33> how do I goto level where I can actually shoot something
<Ricky28269> hey stgraber, i'm back :)
<stgraber> ok :)
#edubuntu 2006-11-24
<Ricky28269> is it just me, or is hibernate buggy?
<Burgundavia> yes it is
<Burgundavia> are you using binary drivers?
<Ricky28269> maybe
<Ricky28269> i don't know much about linux, go easy on me :)
<Burgundavia> have you installed them?
<Ricky28269> what do you mean by binary drivers?
<Ricky28269> lol
<bimberi> he went easy on you :P
<bimberi> binary only video drivers, for example for nvidia and ati cards
<LaserJock> Ricky28269: some driver for video cards, wireless cards, etc. aren't open source
<LaserJock> so they exist in an already compiled (also known as binary) form
<Ricky28269> yes, i have a wireless usb driver through ndiswrapper
<Ricky28269> and I think my video card driver might be closed source... stgraber configured it for me earlier today. i think he said it's the amd64 driver for ati, something like that.
<Ricky28269> anyway yeah. i just had some weird bugs with restoring from hibernate so i was wondering if i'm not the only one
<Ricky28269> Hi, where are programs and their files stored?
<LaserJock> Ricky28269: how do you mean?
<bimberi> Ricky28269: mostly, the executable portion is in /usr/bin.  Each package puts files in lots of places which you can see via 'dpkg -L <package>' in a terminal
<Ricky28269> yeah actually i just found the synaptic package manager will tell me. thanks
<highvoltage> is that Edubuntu running on jono's laptop? http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/JonoBacon/images/computerarea.jpg
<highvoltage> it looks like an Edubuntu theme.
<LaserJock> could be the Peace theme
<LaserJock> which I don't find particularly peaceful
<highvoltage> red doesn't look very peaceful to me.
<LaserJock> it's kinda maroon or something
* highvoltage chooses to believe that it's Edubuntu
<LaserJock> I tried out all the Ubuntu themes blubuntu, tropical, peace the other day
<LaserJock> tropical and peace just seemed to intense
<highvoltage> I like themes that are high contrast. if everything is the same brightness I have trouble remembering where my concentration is supposed to be
<LaserJock> peace is pretty high contrast I guess
<LaserJock> the highlight color is the same maroon as the window deco
<highvoltage> I like a theme where the focussed window is high contrast and dark, and the inactive windows can have less contrast and be lighter
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> that's just too bright for me.
<highvoltage> I like dark colours with high contrast.
<highvoltage> where the standard ubuntu theme is light colours with low contrast.
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 sorry I missed you. gotta go to bed. cya later
<edubuntugirl> Righto, LaserJock!
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: long time, no see
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: hi! well yeah...its been a while, i didnt have a working pc...
<cbx33> Hi all
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, LaserJock told me to tell you 'sorry I missed you. gotta go to bed. cya later' 1 hours, 59 minutes and 57 seconds ago (on Fri Nov 24 08:55:00 2006)
<cbx33> thanks edubuntugirl 
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: how are you doing?
<cbx33> yeh not too bad
<jsgotangco> hehehe im testing out a new service provider
<cbx33> oooh
<jsgotangco> wonder how their grid is
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> media temple
<jsgotangco> i can host a hundred domains and still be able to pay such a low price
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> me can do that too
<jsgotangco> for $20? hehee
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> no
* ogra waves to the edulinux crowd
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, pygi told me to tell you 'I'm very sorry for what I'm about to do ...' 1 day, 14 hours, 17 minutes and 14 seconds ago (on Wed Nov 22 21:14:07 2006)
<RichEd> hi guys ..., say hello to Poland !
<edubuntugirl> RichEd: by the way, Burgwork told me to tell you 'http://opensourceacademy.gov.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file' 3 days, 10 hours, 40 minutes and 26 seconds ago (on Tue Nov 21 00:51:13 2006)
<edubuntugirl> RichEd: by the way, LaserJock told me to tell you 'http://opensourceacademy.gov.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file' 3 days, 10 hours, 39 minutes and 45 seconds ago (on Tue Nov 21 00:51:54 2006)
<willvdl> hey there
<ogra> RichEd, hi !
<jsgotangco> hey
<ajmitch> hi RichEd, ogra 
<ogra> jsgotangco, jerome !
<ogra> nice to see you
<ogra> RichEd, ping
<RichEd> have to go ... bye
<jsgotangco> ogra: yes! still not in normal computing conditions though
<willvdl> greetings to all in Poland
<jsgotangco> what's in poland?
<willvdl> Edulinux
<willvdl> RichEd and Ogra are there at the moment
<jsgotangco> oohhhh
<jsgotangco> ogra must be having fun being on planes most of the time lately hahaha
* willvdl hates flying
* cbx33 has never flown
<jsgotangco> cbx33: seriously????
* jsgotangco hates flights going beyond 10 hours
* highvoltage hates flights lasting any amount of time
<cbx33> seriously
<cbx33> uds would have been my first time out of the country
<highvoltage> it's such a drain of time. I loose about 1.5h just getting to the airport, checking it, waiting to take off, etc
<jsgotangco> heck yeah
<jsgotangco> then you fly for 10+ hours
<jsgotangco> seeing nothing but clouds
<jsgotangco> that's why in long flights i always take the aisle
<highvoltage> going to London was strange for me. I expected it to feel strange in another country. but London feels a *lot* like Cape Town
<highvoltage> they just have better transport and better Internet.
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> come here!
<jsgotangco> so you'll feel like a complete foreigner
<highvoltage> Like I did in Paris :)
<jsgotangco> haha yeah
<jsgotangco> i felt so alien there
* highvoltage too
* cbx33 never feels different
<willvdl> highvoltage, you'll dig San Fran then if you reckon London is like Cape Town
<highvoltage> willvdl: also similar?
<willvdl> yeah
<jsgotangco> cbx33: have you seen lost in translation (the movie)
<cbx33> no
<jsgotangco> imagine you are in uk today the got transported to japan tomorrow
<jsgotangco> because you need to do some work
<jsgotangco> can you imagine how that would feel
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> no I'd be scared
<cbx33> and totally confused
<jsgotangco> that's how travelling alone can be sometimes
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I'll bet
<jsgotangco> everything would be modern and yet so alien to you
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> that's whay I was hoping lisa would get sponsored, but she didn;t.....so I was really scared then....but then work said I couldn't go
<cbx33> so it all worked out I suppose
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> jinty: ping (this is ogra), could we get included in the alpha programme of schooltool ? whom do we have to contact for that ?
<cbx33> Hi OgraEd
<lixu> hi
<lixu> my edubuntu ltsp project in malawi: http://lix.cc/malawi
<stgraber> hi
<airjump> hi
<stgraber> lixu: How many station did you install ?
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<lixu> stgraber: 20 fujitsu siemens S300 thinclients
<lixu> stgraber: sorry the network here is very poor and i'm connected through my server in zurich
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hey sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey, cbx33, saw your blog post.
<cbx33> which one?
<cbx33> video?
<sbalneav> I tried that one suggestion that the person suggested, with the MonitorLayour "CRT+LFP", because I liked the idea of not having to switch...
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> but it turned out to be bad?
<sbalneav> but it didn't work on my i810 laptop.  I'll have to dig into it, because I like the idea.
<cbx33> ahhh I had a i855
<sbalneav> Yeah, laptop screen doesn't light that way.
<cbx33> i see
<sbalneav> I think mine's a 925
<juliux> hi all
<sbalneav> Hello juliux
<juliux> it is possible to have the ltsp and tftp server on one server and the dhcp server on an other server?
<sbalneav> Sure.
<juliux> must i copy the pxe image?
<sbalneav> But first, why do you want things that way?  Does your edubuntu server have two nics?
<juliux> it is not my problem, there is a user asking
<juliux> he has the problem that he has thinclients and normal clients in one network, but if the edubuntu server is down he cant work with the normal thinclients
<juliux> so he wants an extra dhcp server
<sbalneav> You're always better off having 2 network interfaces, and simply running the dhcpd server for the terminals on the other card, but yes, it is possible to to do.
<juliux> he want the dhcp server on an extra server
<juliux> because his edubuntu server is not so stabile 
<juliux> but he needs an dhcp server in his network
<sbalneav> I understand why he wants it, but putting terminals on your main network's going to be a performance nightmare.  Terminals use up a fair chunk of bandwidth, so you really want to segment them off on their own network.  Hence the two cards.
<juliux> it is not my decision;)
<sbalneav> That way, he runs his main dhcpd server like normal, and the dhcpd server for the terminals doesn't interfere with the main one.
<juliux> his eduubntu server is not running the whole time
<juliux> so he needs an extra dhcp server for the normal clients
<sbalneav> Yes, well he can do it either way.
<juliux> and how?
<sbalneav> By merging the dhcpd.conf file from ubuntu into the dhcpd.conf file on the other machine.
<cbx33> I have a w2indows dhcp server
<cbx33> and an edubuntu server
<juliux> my idea is copy /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp to the new dhcp server, add the filename option, rootpath option and next-server in dhcpd.conf
<sbalneav> You don't need to do that.
<sbalneav> the tftp server doesn't need to be the same as the dhcpd server.
<juliux> ah great
<juliux> but i need the next-server option right?
<sbalneav> right.
<juliux> something else?
<sbalneav> Probably lots.
<sbalneav> It would depend upon his network setup.
<juliux> he as a working dhcpd.conf
<juliux> he only want to add the options that he can boot the thinclients from the other server
<sbalneav> You've said that 4 or 5 times.
<sbalneav> I know.
<juliux> so i need more options than the next-server? 
<sbalneav> Sure, root-path, filename, etc.
<juliux> ok but i dont have to copy the pxe image
<sbalneav> But they might conflict with stuff he's already got, so you'll have to be careful.
<sbalneav> if I could SEE the dhcpd.conf file on the other box, I might be able to offer more advice, but without seeing what's what, I don't want to say "do this", or "do that", and then have you come back here tomorrow saying "he did that, now his whole network won't boot" :)
<juliux> i will try to build up a test network hear at home to test that;)
<sbalneav> or,
<sbalneav> Like I said before...
<sbalneav> he could hang all the thin clients off of a separate network interface on the edubuntu server, then he wouldn't have to fiddle with either dhcpd.conf file :)
<sbalneav> So you might want to suggest that.
<juliux> i suggest that but he said that this is no option
<juliux> i suggest als that he can put all the thinclient in one vlan
<juliux> sbalneav, can i ask you something more?
<sbalneav> Sure.
<juliux> it is possible to have a pxe image for ltsp and one for pxe installtion on one server and then choose on the client the ltsp one or the installtion one?
<sbalneav> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
<sbalneav> You want a menu on the client that allows you to pick which image to boot?
<sbalneav> or you want one client to boot one image, and another to boot a different image?
<juliux> i want a menu on the client
<juliux> so i can say please start up as a thinclient or installt now this computer via pxe
<sbalneav> pxe clients don't have any kind of menu support built in.
<sbalneav> So, no, not directly.
<juliux> so i can have only one pxe image on the server
<sbalneav> No, you can have multiple images, based on mac address.
<sbalneav> so you can say "this mac boots this image".
<sbalneav> You might be able to do something with grub, I think it has a PXE booting mode, but I've never investigated it.
<sbalneav> Ah, it's only grub2, which is experimental.
<sbalneav> Etherboot has some kind of menuing system, but that doesn't help you for the PXE clients.
<juliux> ah ok
<juliux> that is ok with the mac address
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: hello
<edubuntugirl> buon giorno, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: choose strawberry yoghurt or cream soda yoghurt
<edubuntugirl> I choose cream soda yoghurt, highvoltage
<highvoltage> good choice.
<cliebow> any one fill me in on installing PyGTK?
<LaserJock> well, you want to make pygtk apps?
<moquist> I'm guessing you want python-gtk2 if you want to make pygtk apps. But I'm not completely sure, never having done so.
<cliebow> moquist:it is edsadmin im after
<moquist> cliebow: apt-get install edsadmin
<cliebow> hmm.
<cliebow> but but..i added the link to sources.list ..and it dies
<moquist> what link?
<moquist> oh, right.
* moquist forgot about that
<moquist> what dies? at which point?
<cliebow> no suitable des implementatrion?
<moquist> so edsadmin dies when you try to execute it.
<cliebow> it install fine..doesnt run..unless im being dumb again
<moquist> are you running edgy?
<cliebow> yeah
<moquist> cliebow: can you find the place in the source (it's just Python) where it prints the error?
<cliebow> i havnt checked the smbldap side..perhaps that is important
<moquist> this message prints out immediately when you start edsadmin, right? not after you click on some stuff and try to, say, add a user, or something.
<cliebow> right
<cliebow> dies in smbpassword.py
<cliebow> smbpassword.py raise exception..no suitable des implementation found
<moquist> it's failing to import pydes
<cliebow> and i need to...uhhh
* moquist is checking python-crypto
<moquist> I would install that package and see how it goes.
<cliebow> it is nor  an imprerativeYou Da MAN
<cliebow> You Da Man
<cliebow> 1nterested how it compares to ldapbrowser282b2
<cliebow> which i rEALLLY lIKE
<moquist> ogra's reason for choosing edsadmin is its UI simplicity.
<cliebow> moquist:It is very straightforward isnt it..
* moquist nods
<moquist> I'm looking at adding automatic home directory creation/manipulation.
<moquist> I'm considering it part of my sysadmin job, and fitting the time in there. :)
<cliebow> moquist: i did homedirs from my bash script..
<cliebow> cause they are sperated out like my ou
<cliebow> al 2010 users have homedir in /home/2010
<moquist> cliebow: right. But if edsadmin is going to be the GUI user admin tool in feisty, we probably want the state of the Home Directory setting in the GUI to reflect reality. At the very least, adding a user in the GUI should create the user's default home directory.
<cbx33> Hey all
<Burgwork> moquist: automatic homedir needs to consider pammkhomedir and sabayon
<cbx33> is this for an AD domain?
<gnomefreak> what does bash use for package in script? $package?
<gnomefreak> like if i wanted to throw apt-cache search $package | less ina  script
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: you can define it to be whatever you want
<gnomefreak> so ther eis no set var for it?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> there isn't a set var for most things
<gnomefreak> thats not good :(
<gnomefreak> i was gonna try them as alias' than combine them in a script but without one defined by default alias isnt gonne go
<cliebow> moquist: ok i see where you are going
<cbx33> last time I tried auto home dir it didn't work
<cbx33> at least not with the entire homedir being on a windows server
<cbx33> not sure what you guys are trying to do
<moquist> Burgwork: yes; thx for the reminders
<moquist> maybe a good pammkhomedir setup would be preferable, anyway.
<Burgwork> given sbalneav has been hacking mkhomdir to cleanup as well, yes
#edubuntu 2006-11-25
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: still awake?
<Burgundavia> yep
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: tell nuffing 'RichEd is wrapping up with the workshop in Poland today and will be home with JaneW and Nuffing and Q & G soon'
<edubuntugirl> Righto, RichEd!
<RichEd> edubuntugirl: tell JaneW 'RichEd is wrapping up with the workshop in Poland today and will be home with JaneW and Nuffing and Q & G soon'
<edubuntugirl> Righto, RichEd!
<ogra> Burgundavia, you're, the person who is always informed ... whats up with pygi ? i just saw his las planet post ...
<Burgundavia> I have no idea what is up with pygi
<Burgundavia> he has been acting very odd recently, but I haven't dragged him aside to figure out why
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> kind of weird ..
<stgraber> hi
<highvoltage> hi stgraber!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell ogra ping
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<harrypopof> hi all
<harrypopof> nobody ?
<RichEd> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> man, that was short
<LaserJock> hi harrypopof 
<harrypopof> hi LaserJock
<harrypopof> everybody's leave this chat ?
<harrypopof> highvoltage ?
<LaserJock> sometimes it's a bit slow
<harrypopof> ;)
<LaserJock> especially on the weekend
<harrypopof> i'm french Ubuntu user 
<harrypopof> excuse me for my langage
<harrypopof> i've created some wallpapers for Ubuntu.
<harrypopof> I had the idea to turn over the logo of Ubuntu to make 3 childrens with the raised arms.
<harrypopof> You can see it here : http://hpfteam.free.fr/graphisme-libre/?q=node/21
<harrypopof> that all ! (licence art libre - like gpl licence) it's just one idea
<harrypopof> hi ogra
<ogra> hey
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'ping' 2 hours, 10 minutes and 39 seconds ago (on Sat Nov 25 19:58:56 2006)
<LaserJock> hi ogra 
<ogra> hey LaserJock 
#edubuntu 2006-11-26
<LaserJock> ogra: I saw something interesting today
<LaserJock> in my home state there is somebody who is taking donated computers
<ogra> oh
<LaserJock> and putting a stripped down Edubuntu on them
<LaserJock> and giving them to kids for free
<ogra> cool !!
<LaserJock> he takes off OO.o and uses IceWM
<LaserJock> I think because the computers are so old
<cliebow>   abiword is functional
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what he uses
<ogra> yep
<ogra> sounds great 
<LaserJock> but he starts from the Edubuntu .iso
<LaserJock> and has a link to the Edubuntu wiki on his site
<ogra> sadly xfce isnt supported by canonical ... thats what kept me from pulling it on the CD yet ...
<LaserJock> anyway, I thought it was crazy that it was my home state
<LaserJock> I didn't know there were even people using Linux there ;-)
<ogra> but its a good candidate for the add-on CD
<LaserJock> yeah
* ogra goes for a final cigarette ... (RichEd will get up in 1h or so to catch his plane)
<LaserJock> how long is the conf?
<ogra> its over
<LaserJock> oh ok
<LaserJock> it was good?
<LaserJock> technically
<ogra> Rich flies out tomorrow at 12 .... i didnt get a flight back before monday 5:40 am
<ogra> yep
<ogra> we switched all these windows peple to edubuntu ... and i'll be the tech lead for the euro linux project ... we'll just need to talk to mark how much involvement we want ;)
<LaserJock> awesome
<ogra> (and how much time i hav to actually do it)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you're spread pretty thing
<LaserJock> *thin
<ogra> RichEd and me make a good team to switch people over ...
<ogra> was a nice experience :)
<LaserJock> way cool
<LaserJock> we had a pretty good meeting even though our 2 stars were gone
<ogra> well there will be money involved, so i can look for a lead developer i can lead or something .... depending on te company decision ...
<LaserJock> that would be nice
<ogra> canonical will be responsible, so i'm not sure how much they want to invest
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> but it will bring us a new moodle ;)
<LaserJock> oh really?
<ogra> with a lot enhancements
* LaserJock likes the sound of that
<ogra> well, it will still be moodle, but improved
<LaserJock> I've been thinking of things to do with the 2nd CD
<LaserJock> having a better moodle on there would be good I think
<ogra> first moodle must get to main ...
<LaserJock> yeah :/
<ogra> the 2nd CD wont change the requirements
<LaserJock> I've seen some info on the security history of moodle
<ogra> *shudder*
<LaserJock> hopefully they've gotten it better
<ogra> they ?
<LaserJock> but I haven't looked at it for over a year
<LaserJock> moodle
<ogra> ah, right ...
<ogra> its at least finally utf8 capable ...
<LaserJock> that's nice ;-)
<ogra> anyway, i need to be silent, i think RichEd needs the one hour of sleep he has ....
<LaserJock> took a look a little at the debian-edu package groups
<LaserJock> yeah, sorry
* mode/#edubuntu [-s]  by ChanServ
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:Seveas] : Welcome to #edubuntu!
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* mode/#edubuntu [+tc]  by Seveas
* mode/#edubuntu [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<littlepaul> hi
<littlepaul> how is the sound for thinclients (technical background) implemented in ltsp?  last year ogra told something about gstreamer implementation over alsa pipa over ssh tunneling
<stgraber> If I'm not wrong, there is an ESD daemon running on all the thin client and the sound is just forwarded to them from the server (using a SSH tunnel)
<littlepaul> thx for answering; meanwhile I read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyPlusOneThinclientSound and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientAudioSupport
<ogra> Seveas, any idea where the topics went ?
<Seveas> ogra, /dev/null
<ogra> es, i saw that, but why ? the logs dont indicate anything
<ogra> *yes
<Seveas> freenode was attacked and went down
<ogra> ah, k
* mode/#edubuntu [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:Seveas] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | edgy (6.10) is released ! grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/ | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
* mode/#edubuntu [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<ogra> wow, thanks ...
<ogra> i was digging for the old text but had nothing in my logs
<Seveas> grep Topic .xchat2/xchatlogs/*edubuntu.log ;)
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ grep Topic .xchat2/xchatlogs/*edubuntu.log
<ogra> grep: .xchat2/xchatlogs/*edubuntu.log: No such file or directory
<ogra> no local logging here ;) i need the diskspace for gcompris updates :P
<Seveas> heh
<Seveas> I rm -rf the logs every few months
<Seveas> when they reach 800-900 mb
<ogra> phew ...
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cliebow> thta must be THE seveas!!!
<rockprincess> howdy all!
<Dheeraj_k> gnome is crashing when i am changing its theme :(
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: that's not fun :/
<Dheeraj_k> yeah thats a pain
<Dheeraj_k> its default theme is specially for kids
<Dheeraj_k> n i am not a kid!
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> Dheeraj_k: what release of Edubuntu are you on?
<Dheeraj_k> i got that cd 3 days back
<LaserJock> you can run sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork
<Dheeraj_k> its 6.06
<LaserJock> hmm, I think 6.06 might have had that feature
<Dheeraj_k> well than why it is crashing?
<LaserJock> did it just crash when you ran that?
<Dheeraj_k> i got the theme option which 1 i should select?
<Dheeraj_k> young default plain
<LaserJock> plain
<Dheeraj_k> Setting desktop defaults ...
<Dheeraj_k> Activating gconf changes ...
<Dheeraj_k> Installing firefox homepage ...
<Dheeraj_k> Installing customized GDM theme ...
<Dheeraj_k> wat difference it will make?
<LaserJock> re-login an dsee
<LaserJock> *and see
#edubuntu 2007-11-19
<RichEd> ping ogra
<LaserJock> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hello LaserJock
<RichEd> how's things ?
<LaserJock> could be better at the moment
<LaserJock> trying to rewrite my data analysis program for a 10am meeting
<johnny> and the time is?
<LaserJock> johnny: here, 1:43am
<RichEd> johnny: for LaserJock Just in Time is not just a compiler concept
<RichEd> hi effie_jayx ... i'll try to go over your submission today ... poke me later if you have not had a respone
<RichEd> *response
<effie_jayx> RichEd,  does it look ok?
<johnny> anybody here tested out the local apps yet?
<effie_jayx> RichEd,  shall do
<RichEd> johnny: try asking in #ltsp ... they might be a bit more cutting edge in there ... as far as I know local apps is an early hack
<RichEd> or wait for sbalneav to appear here later today
<RichEd> effie_jayx: looks great at a first quick read ... well structured, and helps us & intel as well you asking for your requirements
<RichEd> i should be speaking to intel or mailing them today, or tomorrow before lunch at the latest
<LaserJock> RichEd: hehe, I'll have to remeber that quote ;-)
<johnny> RichEd, i don't want to bug him too much about that yet
<RichEd> LaserJock: the JIT one ? makes sense actually seeing as the closer you get to the time of need, the better the understanding of local conditions & requirements
<johnny> i already have him looking into a bug with autologin with ldm
<johnny> i'm trying to think of something else to try and figure it out, a bit difficult when i don't completely understand C or the entire architecture completely
<johnny> i don't any other ways to make my ltsp setup any faster tho
<johnny> for firefox
<Nubae> hi is anyone around... I'm getting this totally illogical error after building a chroot from scratch: Mounting /dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device
<Nubae> makes no sense as this is a virgin chroot
<rafaelcardoso> how I configure xorg?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<Bauer> i want to make a common profile for all students on a edubuntu server. the problems arrives when two (or more) clients logs on with the same username, if client1 opens openoffice, it might as well open on client2 instead. is there any solution to this?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no
<Kamping_Kaiser> dont log in multiple times from one username
<rafaelcardoso> thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> instead use sabayon to create a template for all accounts
<Bauer> sabayon crashes on edubuntu 7.10
<Bauer> but I would have to make an account for every user?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeap.
<Bauer> ok. but have anyone else succeed using sabayon on 7.10?
<rafaelcardoso> Kamping_Kaiser thank you
<Kamping_Kaiser> rafaelcardoso, hope it helps
<Kamping_Kaiser> Bauer, not tried it sorry
<Bauer> ok. thanks anyways ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> good luck
<Kamping_Kaiser> btw, crashing is a bug
<Bauer> yes, I've seen it on launchpad
<Bauer> or do you mean that i should report it?
<tsurc> I'm using a shipit cd and during installation its failing the build ltsp chroot step. further investigation (alt f4) shows that libnewt0.52 and efi-module packages don't exist
<rafaelcardoso> tsurc: you have access to internet with this machine
<tsurc> yes
<rafaelcardoso> strange itÂ´s a new machine?
<Bauer> bauer: where do i set the password for sabayon users? sorry, after a little reading i see that i misunderstood the concept of sabayon :p
<tsurc> new intel server board (can't remember which model) but it has worked for previous beta's
<johnny> the normal users and groups utility
<tsurc> I'm also seeing a SIOCSIFADDR: No such device error on vt4
<rafaelcardoso> tsurc: mi mobo using intel too but its an old machine
<tsurc> I've 3 NIC's too, 2 onboard and one Broadcom card
<tsurc> I'm using the card, because it sometimes switches eth1 and eth2 between the two onboard cards
<tsurc> how can I install libnewt and efi-modules from within the installer environment, then attempt to retry the build ltsp chroot step.
<tsurc> or would it be best to leave this step and try after installing the base os?
<Nubae> hi there...
<Nubae> Im getting very strange behaviour from my ltsp install... when authenticating clients, non except the main user can login
<rafaelcardoso> how to disable ipv6?
<Nubae> the screen goes black, with an arrow key, then goes back to the login screen
<Bauer> have you been playing around with the home-dirs?
<Nubae> I get Warning> No xauth data; using fake authentication fata for X11 forwarding
<Nubae> no, and Ive checked the home dir permissions, this has been an error in the past, but chown -R ususally fixed that
<Nubae> the error is from the ldm.log on the client
<Nubae> and .xsession-errors gives me: xrdb: Connection refused
<Nubae> xrdb: Can't open display '192.168.0.3:6'
<Nubae> any ideas, been trying to figure this out since yesterday, and this is on a virgin chroot
 * Nubae pulls his hair out
<continuity> hello
<continuity> anyone there?
<Nubae> continuity I am
<Nubae> though Im waiting for a more knowledgeable dev, than myself....
<_Flieger> hi, can you recommend minimum sys requirements for edubuntu?
<continuity> :-X Nobody there?
<continuity> bye
<_Flieger> not sure. first time here
<th1a> Hi all.  We've got a real packaging SNAFU for SchoolTool.
<th1a> We set up a PPA and have packages for all our dependencies:
<th1a> But our zope3 package goes in an endless loop of updating itself.
<th1a> https://edge.launchpad.net/~schooltool-owners/+archive?name_filter=zope3
<th1a> We're stumped.
<sakhi__> kbye
<_Flieger> hi all, where can i get minimum system requiements for edubuntu?
<Nubae> ogra... u there_
<Nubae> ?
<bddebian> Heya
<Valross> Hi! Where can I find a list with the supported languages?
<Valross> I have found that information for the ubuntu OS, but not for edubuntu
<Valross> hello?
<gnomefreak> Valross: lang support is same
<gnomefreak> atleast *should* be
<Valross> gnomefreak: should is a very useful word :) tnx
<rafaelcardoso> I need some help with dhcp server, http://www.edubuntu.com/GettingStarted, using this setup its always return this error in syslog please write a subnet declaration
<nubae> anyone around?
<rafaelcardoso> how I liberate station to connect to server
<rafaelcardoso> finally I have a login screen of ubuntu in my thin client, but when I put login, its return this workstation ins't autorizhed,
<effie_jayx> RichEd, ping
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: I'm guessing he's asleep
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  he told me to poke him... No problem then
<effie_jayx> I'll catch up with him later
<effie_jayx> thanks LaserJock
<johnny> hmm... anybody can perhaps make a suggestion on the next step i could take to help resolve bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794/ ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161794 in ltsp "autologin doesn't work" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<johnyII> hi there
<johnyII> can anyone direct me to a site or forum that will tell me about how to get a webcam working
<johnyII> it does recognise the cam
<Burgundavia> johnyII: have you tried googing the cam name and either linux or Ubuntu?
<johnyII> yes I've tried that
<johnyII> but can't seem to get any results
<Burgundavia> I would try asking in the ubntuforums
<johnyII> it does show that the cam works in the sys logs
<johnyII> but it won't do anything
<johnyII> I can't seem to find software
<johnyII> and it doesn't work in amsn
<Burgundavia> have you tried ekiga?
<johnyII> yes I've registered an account with ekiga
<Burgundavia> and did it detect it during the wizard?
<johnyII> yes it did
<Burgundavia> and it still doesn't work?
<johnyII> maybe I need to learn more about ekiga
<johnyII> how to use it
<johnyII> it can't connect to it
<johnyII> cannot connect to dev/video0
<johnyII> downloaded camorama but can't install
<johnyII> dependency problem
<johnyII> something to do with bono activation
<johnyII> gspca_core.c where do I find this file
#edubuntu 2007-11-20
<johnyII> forget it
<johnyII> I guess I'll just have to go back to windows
<johnyII> :(
<Burgundavia> johnyII: webcams suck, trust me
<johnny> you prolly should post to a related list
<corrosione> i boot to the ubuntu cd and it gives me errors...it then proceeds to load to the cd...once there i cant make out the text...but i click install anyway..next, next, next, starting up partioner...i cant make out the text except for resize partition...but i have another os on my hd and i have two partions..is there a safe way to tell it to install on the partition with no os..without being able to read the text
<corrosione> can anyone help me with this
<kgoetz> i woudnt install on an unreadable system.
<corrosione> why would it be unreadable
<ogra> there are different VGA options in the boot menu of the CD, try another one
<johnny> hmm.. no scott today..
<corrosione> well thing is
 * johnny wonders what else to try
<corrosione> how do i chose them this is my first time doing a live install like this
<corrosione> i have only messed with linux a few times..im trying to learn it..
<corrosione> i mean you say chose other vga option like it gives me a choice
<corrosione> meaning it asks me..does it have display settings like windows?
<corrosione> or is it a command line thing
<ogra> oh, you are using the ubuntu liveCd ...
<ogra> there is an option in the menu
<corrosione> k ill retry it
<ogra> sytem-preferences->screen resolution or so ...
<corrosione> o and by the way
<corrosione> if it is giving me errors at boot
<ogra> you can adjust it on the runing desktop
<corrosione> before getting to cd
<corrosione> i am assuming that is bad
<ogra> no idea
<corrosione> k thx
<ogra> you would have to show the errors
<corrosione> doesnt give me that long
<corrosione> can you do screen shot from boot?
<corrosione> Â£aughing Out Â£oud
<ogra> if you install in a virtual machine you can .. but if there is really an error that will be depending on your HW so virtual machines wont help ... you can take photos though
<ogra> anyway, off to bed
<kgoetz> later mate
<geoer> When I try to play a dvd in totem i get a message saying Totem cannot play this type of media (DVD) because you do not have the appropriate plugins to handel it. Do any of you know how to fix that / where is the plug in?
<LaserRock> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hi LaserRock ? your jock become a rock ?
<LaserRock> RichEd: see Planet
<LaserRock> I'm heading to bed
<LaserRock> giving presentation at noon
<LaserRock> stupid PhD
<LaserRock> :-)
<RichEd> LaserRock: saw the planet post ... also one from a stranger calling himself pete savage
<tsurc> on a default edubuntu gutsy install what ports need to be open from the client to the server. just ssh?
<tsurc> reason i ask is because I'm working on installing squid dansguardian transparent proxy on the server, I have it working but my iptable rule that forwards all users to the proxy seams to prevent anyone logging in
<tsurc> everything quiet on the Preston front?
<Bauer> i fail to delete de deskbar applet, or any other items on the top panel in sabayon. when i press delete, it exits
<Bauer> Got fatal error: sabayon-session exited with a FATAL ERROR (exit code 1)
<rafaelcardoso> skype works with ltsp?
<effie_jayx> RichEd,  ping
<RichEd> hi effie_jayx
<effie_jayx> RichEd, hey :D. any news ?
<RichEd> effie_jayx: I'll be contacting Intel today ... will keep you in the loop
<effie_jayx> RichEd,  great... I met with the teaching giving feedback
<effie_jayx> we are working into new features.
<effie_jayx> like having the school rules somewhere in the app
<effie_jayx> and even lab rules
<effie_jayx> and a comprehensive list od deadlines for the schoolyear
<RichEd> and ? great ... if you could show that "given a test device, you could get them to actively test and comment and make suggestions for improvement" that would be a winning argument in my opinion
<effie_jayx> RichEd, in my request?
<RichEd> do you have that "argument" in the wiki pages yet ? i'll do a final read ... and comment if i think you need to make any changes
<rafaelcardoso> to skype work, server must have a sound card?
<Bauer> sound card in the client should be enough.. sound works nice here
<rafaelcardoso> here too but skype fails
<rafaelcardoso> call failed problem with audio playback
<Bauer> weird, sounds like a problem with the sound setup in skype
<rafaelcardoso> maybe
<rafaelcardoso> I canÂ´t change devices, but shows me default device
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> sco sco sco scottieeeee
<ogra> aww ...
<ogra> evil abbreviation
 * RichEd waves to sbalneav from sunny south africa ... 21C or 69.8F
<stgraber> you are lucky :), it's like -2Â°C here :)
 * ogra has +6Â°C to offer here
<rafaelcardoso> hi all, I have one installation of edubuntu works fine with ltsp, have one or two troubles, but a big question is, I can make an script to login directly in dosemu?
 * RichEd sees your paltry temperatures and raises you a 6:46 sunset time
<ogra> ogra@laptop:~$ scp gutsy-server-i386.iso ogra@people.ubuntu.com:/home/ogra
<ogra> gutsy-server-i386.iso        100%  693MB 231.2KB/s   51:11
 * ogra hugs his new line
<sbalneav> :)
<stgraber> that's the reason why I like being at school and using their bandwidth, that's really really useful for huge upload :)
<sbalneav> not so sunny here today.
<stgraber> 2x1Gb/s fiber so 100Mb/s symetrical for me :)
<ogra> not having to drive 300km to reach my server physically is a huge improvement ;)
<stgraber> indeed :)
 * ogra is just setting up his 19" cabinet in the basement ... building a little datacenter
<RichEd> ogra: i thought you said decanter
<RichEd> a drinks cabinet
<ogra> we have decanters already ... and a wine cellar :)
<rafaelcardoso> how run dosemu over ltsp
<ogra> rafaelcardoso, create an ~/.xsession script that starts an xterm with dosemu would be one option
<ogra> (but there are tons f others)
<rafaelcardoso> great thanks
<ogra> ldm will only attempt to execute /etc/X11/Xsession ...
<ogra> thats what a normal ubuntu or debian does as well, so any documentation for X session management will apply to ltsp settings as well, if you find a xsession script for dosemu that runs on a normal debian/ubuntu you will be able to use it
<rafaelcardoso> have a little trouble when i change lts.conf, put screen_01 = rdesktop for example, don't boot
<rafaelcardoso> using config by mac address like examples on site
<ogra> thats because rdesktop isnt instaled
<rafaelcardoso> chroot and install?
<ogra> right
<rafaelcardoso> good thanks
<johnny> hi
<johnny> sbalneav, i ssh -X as you suggested for testing my autologin issue, that worked fine
<rafaelcardoso> whi skype push sound configuration for my server
<rafaelcardoso> sound on thin client works fine
<johnny> skype is evil..
<rafaelcardoso> cool
<ogra> skype would have to use alsa for sound ...
<ogra> and there is no capturing device setup on thin clients atm ...
<ogra> so you need to fiddle with that manually
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> johnny: ok, well, it's something else then.
<johnny> there are more comments on the bug with similiar experiences now
<sbalneav> Yep, I've seen.
<sbalneav> Any indication of error in /var/log/ldm.log on the thin client itself?
<johnny> no
<johnny> it just stops
<johnny> no ctrl + alt + f1
<sbalneav> That indicates X has hung
<johnny> last thing i see on the console when doing export LDM_USERNAME + LDM_PASSWORD  and then starting ldm manually is the word hostname
<johnny> appearing right after the command
<johnny> and also "in get_userid"
<sbalneav> Is "in get_userid" the last message in ldm.log?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> oh. no i don't think that is logged
<johnny> it just shows up in the console
<johnny> after doing ldm vt7 :0
<johnny> manually
<sbalneav> So, after that, the thin client hangs, and doesn't respond to keyboard events?
<johnny> correct, but the mouse moves
<sbalneav> can you hit control-alt-backspace?
<johnny> aha.. forgot to try that
<johnny_> sbalneav, i'm testing the backspace thing now, finally got a hold of a computer
<highvoltage> goodnight edubunteros
<johnny_> are the thin clients supposed to have a splash screen?
<johnny_> sbalneav, no, ctrl + alt + backspace doesn't work
<sbalneav> johnny_: ok, thanks
<sbalneav> so, something's latched up.
<johnny_> anything else you want me to try while i got a free computer
<sbalneav> I can't think of anything right at the moment, and I'm at work, and trying to catch up from being away for 10 days, so right at the moment, no :)
<Ilikekeke> There is no op here?
<johnny_> oh, i thought you'd been back for awhile
<Ilikekeke> brb
<EhPrettyEasy> ESCAPE??!
<sbalneav> johnny_: I have, about a week and a bit.
<johnny_> i wish i understood more C stuff
<sbalneav> Quick way to fix that.
<johnny_> i wish, i have enough duties at our worker owned coffeehouse already :)
<johnny_> still need to  patch up our scheduling application ,and add a new feature to our point of sale
<sbalneav> yeah, well, I have my regular job, plus Edubuntu, plus upstream for LTSP, plus hang out in the channel and help anyone in the world with a problem.  Plus wife, two kids, etc.  :)
<johnny_> regular job?
<johnny_> what do you do?
<johnny_> yeah i do the same thing for my open source project..
<sbalneav> I'm the sysadmin for Legal Aid Manitoba.
<sbalneav> And the manager of the systems department.
<johnny_> so do use ltsp there?
<johnny_> is there a way to run the old python ldm still?
<johnny_> at least i can hack that one :)
<sbalneav> Yup, I use LTSP here
<johnny_> at least i could fix that one
<sbalneav> The python one didn't support autologon anyway
<johnny_> yes it did
<johnny_> i was using it
<johnny_> with the LDM_USERNAME="hostname|"
<johnny_> you helped me set it up :)
<sbalneav> That was an unofficial mod
<johnny_> aha.. i forgot
<johnny_> i was using it so long
<johnny_> it worked great
<sbalneav> Well, this one works too.  At least at home it does :)
<sbalneav> why it's not working for you I don't know
<johnny_> prolly something minior
<johnny_> minor*
<johnny_> and for all the people on the list who have the same problem
<johnny_> err bug list
<sbalneav> Well, we'll figure it out eventually.
<johnny_> that guy who posted to the ML, i'd like to get back together with him to work on it, but he hasn't reappeared since :)
<sbalneav> who, gadi?
<johnny_> no
<johnny_> francis
<johnny_> he was helping me initially with debugging with ldm2
<johnny_> that user he mentioned in the ML post was me
<nixternal> sbalneav: how much of a machine would be needed to run ltsp on a machine that say, at a max, 50 computers would connect to at any given time?
<sbalneav> nixternal: Well, you'd want something on the order of a dual xenon
<sbalneav> prolly at least 4-6 gigs of ram.
<LaserJock> ogra1: you around?
<ogra1> LaserJock, yup, with half an eye
<LaserJock> ogra1: I figured out our gcompris translation problem
<LaserJock> ogra1: and will fix it for Hardy when I do the merge
<ogra1> hey, thanks
<ogra1> but you can also leave that to me
<LaserJock> ogra1: and am going to send carlos a Gutsy .pot so that we can reinsert the translations into the lang pack updates
<ogra1> the new structure leaves me not much develpment time on other but edu apps
<LaserJock> ogra1: I'll fix this one, it's my fault in the first place I believe
<ogra1> so as soon as CD and ltsp upstream are sorted i'll turn into a plain edu maintainer
<LaserJock> ogra: great
<LaserJock> there are quite a few bugs out there to get fixed up
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, i fear to get bored after some time
<ogra> but lets see ... being bored one release might also not e bad :)
<ogra> *be
<LaserJock> well, we might have a better chance of doing some need polishing
<LaserJock> *needed
<ogra> i doubt that for hardy though
<ogra> to much new stuff
<ogra> and to much odl stuff for me to sort out
<ogra> *old
<LaserJock> I'm sure there will be enough to do
#edubuntu 2007-11-21
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<JoeError> Hello all, I'd like to shoot a quick question at y'all. I'm taking over a small computer lab at the local Y and I'm pretty set on edubuntu. I'm wondering what the best way to remotely administer the entire lab would be? I'm proficient enough to do it all with bash, and what I was ideally hoping for was some way to use bash to make changes to ALL the computers in the lab as simultaneously as possible. Of course I'm not opposed to user
<Burgundavia> JoeError: if you are using ltsp, a chnage on the server will affect all the computers
<JoeError> ltsp... I'm not familiar with that...
<JoeError> I'll look into that
<JoeError> beautiful that's exactly what I want
<JoeError> thanks
<Artemka> nybody already made OO as local application?
<sbalneav> Artemka: N
<sbalneav> Artemka: No
<JoeError> anyone know a way to basically put a "new user" button on the gdm login screen?
<sbalneav> you mean to add a user?
<JoeError> yeah
<JoeError> but I don't want to do it for every user
<JoeError> I want the users to be able to do that
<JoeError> I'm under the impression I might actually just not have seen the option to do that
<sbalneav> No, there's no way to do that.  Adding users is a priviledged operation.  Besides, you probably DON'T want random people creating their own accounts.
<sbalneav> You'd very quickly have a box with 1000's of accounts on it :)
<JoeError> well it's for a computer lab at the y
<JoeError> using old computers
<JoeError> as thin clients
<JoeError> and I kinda do want them to do that
<JoeError> I can't sit there and add all the users
<sbalneav> Why not?  The Y's probably got membership cards and a user database of some sort I'd expect, why not simply grab
<JoeError> because I seriously doubt they'd let me
<sbalneav> an export of that, and create a script to do a bulk add, or some such/
<sbalneav> They're probably ALSO not going to want random people off the street being able to walk in and create accounts on the Y's computer systems, either :)
<JoeError> well you can't go into the Y as a random person anymore
<JoeError> they have to identify themselves as members as soon as they walk in the door
<Burgundavia> a better solution is to create a kiosk account
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: did you ever finish that pam_rmhomedir?
<sbalneav> code was posted, and it worked.
<sbalneav> No one ever did anything with it.
<sbalneav> guest accounts would be the better way to go.
<Burgundavia> if you want to run an uncrippled guest account, you basically need to create and remove home dirs as you go
<stgraber> RichEd: What time is the meeting today ?
<RichEd> stgraber: not sure .... let me check
<RichEd> 12h00 utc
<stgraber> ok, I'll probably be there at around 12:15 (starting school again at 12:10)
<RichEd> by school ... do you mean university or still final school years ?
<stgraber> third and last year of technical school
<RichEd> in south africa we do school up to K12 ... then university for degree or technikon for a diploma ... how does your technical school fit into that structure ?
<stgraber> hmm, here we have 5 years primary school, then 4 years secondary school, then 3 years of tech school or other kind of school (so we have a maturity), then university or ingineer school
<mario> yo
<RichEd> ping ogra
<RichEd> ping ogra
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting delayed === short meeting will be held in 15 mins ===
<Kamping_Kaiser> how long is the meeting?
<RichEd> as short as possible ... ogra and i have specs to finish for tomorrow
<Kamping_Kaiser> held here or -meeting?
 * Kamping_Kaiser will stay up if its RSN and short
<RichEd> -meeting
<RichEd> === edubuntu === short meeting now ===
<RichEd> in #ubuntu-meeting
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Heya
<pygi> oh noes, bddebian
<juliux> hey pygi and bddebian
<bddebian> Heh, hi pygi, juliux
<theunixgeek> How do I change the color that appears after I log in and before my desktop loads?
<sbalneav> theunixgeek: I think that's the desktop colour
<sbalneav> check in the desktop preferences, change the colour there.
<theunixgeek> sbalneav: I figured out just now that it's actually in /etc/gdm/PreSession/Default :) I'm gonna try it out now.
<charlie> hi all
<charlie> has anyone tested ltsp on an quad core system
<sbalneav> I use ltsp on dual dual-core systems, that close enoug?
<charlie_> sbalneav, thanks
<charlie_> ogra has replied to me in the ltsp channel
<charlie_> stating thatit has been done
<sbalneav> Shouldn't really matter HOW many cores your server has.  If Linux supports it, then it should work
<charlie_> just for flash support
<charlie_> i mean
<airjump> hello from europe
<airjump> olpc vs. asus eee pc Have someone test the asus eee pc with edubuntu?
 * pygi thinks somebody did play with it
<pygi> ogra perhaps? :)
<pygi> highvoltage: com'on, our ambassador :)
<ogra> the triple e pc isnt education related in any way, so no i didnt test it yet, i saw it from a distance though
<airjump> What do you think of highvoltage?
<airjump> hello pygi?
<airjump> 	
<pygi> airjump: hey :)
<airjump> :->
<pygi> airjump: highvoltage is our community ambassador :D
<pygi> that's a person :D
<airjump> ahhhh OK
<pygi> personally, I think OLPC works best with it's own OS :)
<airjump> OK
<airjump> But i think the asus eee pc is a good alternative for Europe people
<pygi> well, send me one, and I'll test it for you :)
<airjump> In my environment, there are a lot of the young people they want to have simple PC
<airjump> i talk today with the asus hotline in germany
<airjump> but asus say in europe the eee pc come at the end of dec.
<airjump> 	
<airjump> ok i say good bye
<ogra> airjump, we have someone looking into the triple e
<airjump> yes 8D
<ogra> look for "bryce" on #ubuntu-devel
<airjump> thanks
<ogra> i'm taking care for building an image for the classmate PC so the os setup might be similar (as the HW specs are)
<ogra> but as its not edu related it didnt land on my desk
<airjump> ok
<highvoltage> pygi: heh
<highvoltage> pygi: nope, haven't played with Eee yet, but I'll probably get one next year some time :)
<airjump> Hi highvoltage i think i will get one next year too i will  the 10Â°
<highvoltage> airjump: the 10?
<johnny_> 10 degrees
<airjump> sorry not degrees
<airjump> the display size
<highvoltage> aaaah
<highvoltage> yes, I don't know. I guess I'll have to see what's available and what they cost
<airjump> yes
<highvoltage> airjump: where are you from?
<airjump> from germany
<airjump> and you
<highvoltage> much more south... south africa
<airjump> hey cool
<airjump> i was 2003 to 2004 in capte town, joburg and swaziland
<airjump> 3 weeks
<airjump> with german scouts
<highvoltage> ah cool. I'm from cape town, on a work trip in johannesburg at the moment.
<airjump> cool
<highvoltage> where in germany do you stay?
<airjump> sorry but a have no old pictures from our trip to south africa
<airjump> wait a moment
<airjump> you can open the link and finde the town in germany
<highvoltage> ah ok
<LaserJock> highvoltage: they're selling Eee's here. I'm a bit surprised. They're all sold out of course, but I'm sure they'll get more
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, seems like it's a big hit
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I love the idea of solid state storafe. hard disks are so clunky, noisy and use a lot of energy
<highvoltage> fast "seek" times would also be nice.
<LaserJock> I'm worried about speed and that they will wear out quicker
<LaserJock> a hard drive is pretty easy to replace
<LaserJock> highvoltage: have you had a chance to do anything with the edubuntu.org theme
<LaserJock> I've been so busy with school, etc. I haven't been able to do anything
<highvoltage> LaserJock: same here, and will be for the next two weeks still. after that, I'll be pretty much free for a month (I can't wait)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I like what Vincint did with the http://www.xubuntu.org site, he gave the old theme a bit of a facelift, while they get the new theme done
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm going to steal some of his ideas, he said it's fine
<juliux> hey LaserJock herman_
<juliux> hey LaserJock highvoltage
<LaserJock> highvoltage: cool, the Xubuntu site looks pretty decent. Better than it used to
<LaserJock> highvoltage: what do you think about making the background white? so it's basically red and white
<highvoltage> hey juliux
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you mean so that the yellow part is white, from the current edubuntu theme?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yep
<LaserJock> highvoltage: do you have the current theme somewhere?
<x_or> I am trying to install ubuntu in Brazil.  I downloaded the CD after about ten hours and it looks like it is corrupted.  It does boot into the liveCD mode, and I am actually typing using Ubuntu.  However, the installer will not work, it complains of a disk error.  Does anyone know if I can run the installer manually, perhaps downloading the installer packages via the network connection?
<pygi> highvoltage: so you'll get one to me as well? :D
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> I am setting up an LTSP server and I want to change the defaults for firefox
<Petaris> I have an amd64 server but installed a 32 bit firefox in /opt/apps32/firefox
<Petaris> I set the settings in the base dir but they are ignored
<Petaris> I also tried setting them in /etc/firefox and /usr/share/firefox but still they are ignored
<Petaris> Any thoughts on what might cause this?
<Petaris> Using Gutsy btw
<Petaris> ok, so now its only ignoring my homepage setting
<Petaris> anyone have thoughts as to why this might be?
<Petaris> I have it set in firefox.js in /etc/firefox/defaults/pref /usr/share/firefox/defaults/pref /opt/apps32/firefox/defaults/pref
<Nuba1> hey, which port does tftp work on?
<Nuba1> my firewall is blocking it for some reason
<johnny_> 69?
<johnny_> of course a simple web search could tell you that
<Nuba1> tried that no go
<johnny_> i found it from a websearch
<Nuba1> like I havent done that already
<Nuba1> :') obviously its a non standard port
<johnny_> first link at "tftp port"
<johnny_> says 69
<Nuba1> for edubuntu?
<johnny_> no, it's a standard port
<johnny_> i doubt edubuntu would use a different port
<Nuba1> cant be, openned that up and firewall still blocks tftp
<johnny_> i'm using ubuntu, i really doubt it'd e different for ubuntu
<Nuba1> its got to be another port
<johnny_> look in /etc/inetd.conf
<Nuba1> ah, good point
<Nuba1> its 2000 and 20001 for nbd
<Nuba1> 2001
<johnny_> yes
<johnny_> so what does it say for tftp ?
<Nuba1> nothing... but Im trying to unblock udp now too
<johnny_> yes.. udp
<Nuba1> hmmm unblocked nbd ports and udp+tcp 69 and still blocked
<johnny_> firewalls.. lol
<Nuba1> ah got it
<Nuba1> ah, I hate shorewall
<Tailsfan> Hello, Is the server CD the same thing as teh Alt. Installer
<Burgundavia> Tailsfan: the same installer, but you get different things
<Tailsfan> OK Thanks
<Tailsfan> because I'm trying to finish my Ubuntu Collection and I wanted to know If I got teh right image or not
<Tailsfan> I now have all the Desktop/Live and Alt. Installer CDs for Gutsy for teh Official Ubuntu Family
<Burgundavia> basically, there are two installers
<Tailsfan> but I wanted to install the GUI version
<Burgundavia> the alternate one is based on the debian-installer and the live one is called Ubiquity, although it uses a lot of logic and code from d-i
<Burgundavia> what you install with those installs depends on what cd you get
<Burgundavia> the desktop alternate and the desktop live will install the same system, at least for Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> for edubuntu I don't actually know, as I have never actually installed Edubunt8
<Tailsfan> but I needed the alt. to 1. complete my collection and 2. for whenevr I install it on Virtualization Software
<Tailsfan> I wanted to become a Computer Teacher someday myself anyway
<Burgundavia> teaching is a lot harder than it seems
<Tailsfan> Why, are you a teacher?
<Burgundavia> I have taught computer stuff, yes
<Burgundavia> I have done a lot of things in my life
<Burgundavia> none of them very well
<theunixgeek> Hello. I'm following the osdev Bare Bones tutorial for writing a simple kernel. http://www.osdev.org/wiki/Bare_bones I'm a complete noob at this, so please don't assume I know all the terminology you guys do. I'd like to be able to boot the kernel shown in the tutorial in either Bochs or QEMU. How would I go about this?
<Burgundavia> theunixgeek: this is also not the correct place to ask
<Burgundavia> I suggest you try to osdev mailing list or forums
<theunixgeek> Burgundavia: sorry :(
<Tailsfan> well, if anything I teach my family on how to use certain functions on a OC
<Tailsfan> PC*
<Tailsfan> I'm the computer nerd of my family
<Burgundavia> family is a great target for adoption
<Burgundavia> my brother was my first target
<Tailsfan> If anything, I'm installing Edubuntu now so I can help people on the go
<pmvalente> please, someone could helpme, I've install edubuntu server and used a thin cliente and evething works good, but my proble is how to put disk space limits to the users?
<Burgundavia> pmvalente: quotas
<pmvalente> yes I think so.
<pmvalente>  please, someone could help me, I've install edubuntu server and used a thin client and evething works good, but my problem is how to put disk space limits to the users? "quotas"
<mcfloppy_> yeah
<mcfloppy_> i like penplotter ;)
<mcfloppy_> cool stuff
<mcfloppy_> and so nice outputs
<davubunt1> Hello
<Burgundavia> hello
<davubunt1> I have some questions about edubuntu
<pygi> shoot
<davubunt1> I am in Nicaragua and I have a friend who would like to find out more about edubuntu because he is a very welthy philanthopist and he runs a group for kids
<davubunt1> He has about 2400 kids who he feeds 4 nights per week
<davubunt1> and he runss after school programs etc.
<davubunt1> I have used ubuntu for a while but I'm no techie
<davubunt1> He has about 15 machines set up with pirated windows at the moment
<davubunt1> which he tries to educate kids on
<davubunt1> He has all the usual problems with Windows
<davubunt1> slow, viruses... you know the ones
<davubunt1> He is willing to get thinstations in
<davubunt1> Can you give me some useful links as to what sort of set up he should look at
<davubunt1> I went to the download page but I'm not sure what to give him
<davubunt1> Oh it is probably better if the info is available in Spanish too as his current sysadmin doesn't speak english
<pygi> ohm :-/
<pygi> not  a fun situation
<pygi> I dont think edubuntu handbook is translated to spanish
<davubunt1> It's fun for the potential
<davubunt1> Hmm
<davubunt1> He can probably get it translated
<davubunt1> He is that sort of guy
<davubunt1> If you can just give me links I will give them to him
<davubunt1> Maybe I can find a local LUG who can help out
<davubunt1> I know Free Software Magazine ran an article about thinstations in an educational environment but it is a bit old now
<Burgundavia> pygi: given we have such a huge spanish community, it shouldn't be hard
<davubunt1> Well as I said if it's not in Spanish I would not be surprised if he can get some of his volunteers to translate it and I will let him know he should upload it.
<davubunt1> He is raising a new generation of kids here in Nicaragua
<davubunt1> I can search the net but I thought you guys might be able to offer me the best links off the bat.
<davubunt1> And this is a very worthy cause
<davubunt1> I know if I search I will find Ubuntu oriented articles primarily
<pygi> well, Burgundavia, you instruct davubunt1 then :)
<davubunt1> I would have gone to the Spanish community first but I don't speak spanish very well.
<davubunt1> :)
<davubunt1> I just need some links to get the sys admin started and I need to know what CD to start her off with.
<davubunt1> Okay...?
<davubunt1> I guess I'll try elsewhere... thanks anyway
<davubunt1> .join #ubuntu
#edubuntu 2007-11-22
<diskjockey> hey all
<LaserJock> hi
<diskjockey> I can't seem to change the login screen of my thin clients. (System -> administration -> login screen was of any help). any ideas ?
<diskjockey> btw I was wondering if anyone has deployed a production server of edubuntu gutsy yet ?
<diskjockey> anyone awake ?
<diskjockey> LaserJock: how goes ?
<LaserJock> I"m awake
<LaserJock> a bit busy though
<LaserJock> there are lots of production servers running edubuntu gutsy
<LaserJock> although I don't know that anybody in here currently is
<LaserJock> since it's kind of a bad time of day
<LaserJock> the login screen for LTSP is LDM
<LaserJock> not GDM which is what's used on the server itself, and what you're looking at when you go into the System menu
<diskjockey> u know what for a half sleepy guy u rock
<LaserJock> diskjockey: there is a LDM section in the Edubuntu Handbook
<LaserJock> if you're on an Edubuntu gutsy machine go to System -> Help & Support -> Edubuntu Handbook (on the left bar)
<diskjockey> LaserJock: just doing that. I'll let u know if I succeed fail
<LaserJock> I don't know if it'll help you but that's the best I've got
<diskjockey> dont worry u still rock
<diskjockey> it seems LDM was not installed (and it doesn't come out of the box installed) so yeah . just aptgetting it
<diskjockey> I hope I find my way from here on but yeah thanx agin
<diskjockey> again*
<LaserJock> diskjockey: how did you install Edubuntu?
<diskjockey> CD
<diskjockey> then apt-get updated it ofcourse. anything wrong with that ?
<LaserJock> diskjockey: what CD?
<LaserJock> and what install option?
<diskjockey> edubuntu sever CD
<LaserJock> hmm
<diskjockey> install options ? there were not any. If I rememvber correctlyu
<diskjockey> what are u thinking ?
<LaserJock> when you boot initially
<LaserJock> there should be several options
<diskjockey> no . no options
<diskjockey> options like what. U mean the ncurses type of options etc..
<LaserJock> at the very beginning
<LaserJock> when you boot it
<diskjockey> I did choose the ltsp build option
<LaserJock> ok
<diskjockey> no there are no options ( only chose install edubuntu)
<diskjockey> what are ur concerns ?
<LaserJock> well, there's install workstation
<LaserJock> install command line system
<LaserJock> and a few others
<LaserJock> if you did the LTSP install you should have LDM
<LaserJock> anyway, I guess if it works it works
<diskjockey> anyway I dont have it. but yeah I just did apt-get it
<diskjockey> anyway things are sorted
<diskjockey> I only needed to edit the default file (of pxe to remove splash option to the kernel)
<diskjockey> hey one more thing
<diskjockey> when I restart gdm. the X crashes on me ?
<diskjockey> is that normal ?
<LaserJock> yep
<diskjockey> huh ?
<LaserJock> gdm is what starts X
<LaserJock> it spawns the process and runs stuff
<LaserJock> so restarting gdm is a way of killing X
<diskjockey> but it doesn't show up even after I wait 10 minutes ( I thought restart meant restart)
<LaserJock> oh, it should restart
<LaserJock> and come back up
<diskjockey> hmm. it doesnt on my side
<diskjockey> any way I hope in few days there will be a patch for that as well.
<LaserJock> did you hit Ctrl-Alt-F7 ?
<diskjockey> no. just /etc/init.d/gdm restart on the cmd line while in X
<LaserJock> well, you might try restarting the computer to see if you get X back
<diskjockey> yeah restarting does return the X
<diskjockey> LaserJock I need to restart the GDM so maybe I'll see u later some. thanx for all the help though
<LaserJock> k
<diskjockey> cya around thanx
<RichEd> hello laser?ock
<docente> Hi!
<docente> can anyone help me about thin client and x11vnc configuration?
<tsurc> what problem you having, I'm no expert but I have had it working before.
<docente> the clients in thin clien manager won't connect via X11vnc, it say that the x11vnc is not installed (false)
<tsurc> docente: what version of edubuntu are you using... gutsy?
<docente> there is no much info on this, maybe it's a bug in 7.10 release?
<docente> yes
<tsurc> docente: have you run ltsp-update-image?
<docente> yes, I've read tons of documentation, but no luck
<tsurc> docente: to be honest I got my test box working by following https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<docente> yes, I know that doc, but not working for me
<docente> when I put mv K99rc.local S99rc.local, there is an error: no such file or directory
<tsurc> The first time I tried I had a typo, the second time I forgot to chroot into /opt/ltsp
<docente>  cannot stat `K99rc.local': No such file or directory
<tsurc> try sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp, then rebuilding the ltsp root
<tsurc> my install had K99rc.local, failing that..
<docente> rebuilding ltsp root? How?
<tsurc> try creating the file and adding the line from the wiki page
<tsurc> er bare with me...
<tsurc> sudo ltsp-build-client
<docente> ok, work in progress...
<tsurc> might take a while. If you drink tea now would be a good time to put the kettle on
<docente> yes, thank you in any case
<tsurc> ;-)
<docente> the espresso coffee is very fast ;-)
<tsurc> Coke or Water for me, although I'm thinking of taking up coffee
<tsurc> docente: do you know anything about IPTables
<docente> where you come from?
<tsurc> Skegness, Uk
<tsurc> YOU?
<tsurc> oh sorry.... you?
<docente> not much, something about NAT, Latina IT
<docente> the clients are logged normally in the Thin Client Manager, the problem is the screen viewer
<tsurc> I'm installing gutsy, with squid and dansguardian. But I want to get the users to automatically go through dansguardian
<docente> I think that the dhcp work fine
<tsurc> sounds like x11vnc isn't being started. Thats prob linked to the absence of that rc.local file you mentioned.
<tsurc> you could try creating the file, adding the line needed, Then updating the image
<docente> yes, but I'd started the vnc client directly on the client, it work but no image trasmitted on the server, I think for permission problem
<docente> sorry for my bad english ;-)
<tsurc> don't worry, allot people in the UK have problems writing english.
<docente> allot? :-)
<tsurc> many
<tsurc> anyway, the vnc client is for viewing the screen, what needs to be running on the thin client is the x11vnc server
<docente> yes, I know
<tsurc> so who are you starting x11vnc directly on the client?
<tsurc> how*
<docente> good question,  I will trying to remember...
<docente> I can't access now on the clients, but I remember that I've found the service X11vnc server running in chroot
<docente> You know that I'm newbie ;-)
<tsurc> well I'm no expert either ;-) so don't worry
<airjump> hello
<ogra> RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UDS-Boston/ClassmatePC/PowerManagement is done so far
<ogra> RichEd, did i understand right that we still need the choice of browser spec as firefox 3 will be to late for hardy ?
<RichEd> ogra: there was risk concern expressed ... so i think you need to suggest 3 but provide an alternate ?
<ogra> alternate means i need to put in review time for the different browsers ...
<RichEd> if v2 was limited to 1 window is that okay ... or is the load time too long ?
<ogra> the load time is the issue
<ogra> if it once runs its similar to 3.0
<ogra> but there is also webkit and some browsers will switch to it ... the thing is that its not yet predictable how they behave on the classmate
<RichEd> well the trade off between moving away from ff v2 for classmate 8.04 and then going back to ff v3 for 8.10 is i think worse long term than a short wait ?
<RichEd> we know ff2 works
<RichEd> if ff3 is out in time ... good
<RichEd> so i'd say ... leave ff as the browser ... and we decide on version when we get to freeze ?
<RichEd> my opinion
<ogra> well, 8.04 will suck performance wise
<RichEd> when is ff3 due ... any chance it will make it into 8.04 ubuntu ?
<ogra> i would love to go with any other browser if we have to stick with 2.0
<ogra> its on the edge, as mdz said yesterday
<ogra> not sure they'll make it and we wont risk breakage in an LTS release
<ogra> (for ubuntu that is)
<ogra> but webkit is in main and epiphany will likely be compiled with it
<RichEd> make some suggetions in the spec and i will add comment ?
<RichEd> if they are in main ... okay
<ogra> webkit is said to be even faster than ff 3.0 ... but i didnt see it in action yet
<ogra> epiphany has lots of other advantages ... like better scaling of the fnts (and pictures !) for small screen sizes ...
 * pygi did see
<ogra> optional kiosk mode etc
<ogra> pygi, could you compare it to ff 3 ?
 * RichEd quick break ... back in a few mins
<pygi> ogra: yup ... epiphany with it is more stable, uses less memory, and browsing experience seems better, but still has some rough edges
<ogra> right
<pygi> while firefox still has the advantage of enormous number of plugins
<ogra> well, ff3 has its rough edges as well
<pygi> yes, I know
 * ogra spent 30 min to allow a self sidgned certificate two days ago
<pygi> :D
<ogra> they dropped the popup dialog that just lets you allow it ... so you have to dig into the gutsy of the settings
<ogra> *guts
<pygi> heh, hopefully they'll put it back :D
<pygi> if epiphany got a better plugin interface then it has now, I think a lot of people would switch
<pygi> it just cant compare to firefox and XUL
<ogra> plugin like flash ? or do you mean extensions ?
 * ogra didnt see any probs with plugins yet
<pygi> extensions*
<ogra> ah
<ogra> well, it has its own set ... ever installed the epiphany-extensions package ?
<pygi> yes, I saw that
<pygi> but that's just not it
<pygi> you can't seriously compare that to FF plugins
<ogra> well, i never used (or had to use) any extensions in my life ... so i dont really miss them ...
<ogra> beyond that we dont ship tham
<ogra> *them
<pygi> right =)
<RichEd> ogra: will epiphany run flash ?
<pygi> RichEd: why not? o.O
<pygi> it just wont have that fancy dialog that ff has right now
<RichEd> pygi: just asking :)
<ogra> RichEd, i wouldnt propose a browser that cant run flash :)
<ogra> else i'd have looked at dillo long ago *g*
<pygi> ogra: think a similar dialog like the one for ff could be hacked in?
<pygi> it would take more effort then ff's one tho
 * RichEd meeting with childs physio -> 45 mins
<ogra> RichEd, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/classmatepc-choice-of-browser is ready as well
<ogra> RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuAndItalcHardy is ready ...
<sbalneav> Morning all
<johnny_> morning..
<RichEd> ogra: thanks ...
<tsurc> finally cracked the transarent proxy on a single server.... at least I think I have this time. lol
<tsurc> I've updated the edubuntuProxy page if someone fancies having a look at the iptables bit. I've done more testing this time but I'd really like a professional pair of eyes to look over it.
<arrayanes> hi
<arrayanes> hola?
<docente> Hi there!
<docente> any experience on thin client in edubuntu gutsy?
<docente> I have problem with x11vnc connection
<LaserJock> docente: what kind of problem?
<docente> the thin client manager say that there is no x11vnc installed on the client, but it's false
<johnny_> in the chroot?
<docente> yes, the mesage is in the box of the TCM where normally appear the client desktop
<johnny_> did you install x11vnc in the chroot? or on the box itself?
<johnny_> err server itself
<docente> I have installed the x11 server on the client (chroot)
<johnny_> x11 server? you mean x11 vnc ?
<docente> yes
<johnny_> hmm.. i think i had that problem too, never got around to resolving it
<docente> maybe there is a ssh permission problem...
<docente> nothing over the world
<docente> maybe it's a gutsy bug?
<docente> how I can improve that the x11vnc is running on client?
<docente> and how I can start the service manually?
<johnny_> nah.. i didn't have it working in feisty either
<docente> I'm trying to start x11vnc on client as root, this is the error message:
<LaserJock> ogra: you alive? :-)
<docente> x11vnc was unable to open the X DISPLAY: ":0.0", it cannot continue.
<LaserJock> ogra: I've got a question about the content server spec regarding splitting up the moodle package
<docente>  There may be "Xlib:" error messages above with details about the failure
<johnny_> try using it inside
<johnny_> login and then run it
<docente> like user?
<johnny_> yes
<docente> damn! It say that s not installed
<LaserJock> docente: yeah, I think somehow you didn't actually install it in the client chroot
<docente> but I've installed it, if I try to apt-get install x11vnc by root in chroot, it say that the package is already installed!
<LaserJock> docente: did you actually chroot in?
<docente> just now
<docente> suggestion?
<LaserJock> docente: ok, give us the exact steps you're going through to install x11vnc
<docente> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<docente> apt-get install x11vnc
<docente> Sudo gedit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.local
<docente> Add the following line before the exit 0 statement in this file and save it:
<docente> x11vnc -display :6 -forever -loop &
<docente> Sudo chroot
<docente> cd /etc/rc2.d
<docente> mv K99rc.local S99rc.local
<docente> exit
<docente> that's all
<LaserJock> and when you're in the chroot and you run dpkg -l x11vnc ?
<docente> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<docente> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-f/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/t-aWait/T-pend
<docente> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<docente> ||/ Nome                Versione            Descrizione
<docente> +++-===================-===================-======================================================
<docente> ii  x11vnc              0.8.2-2             VNC server which uses your current X11 session
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> now when you're in the thin client and you do dpkg -l x11vnc do you get the same thing?
<docente> no
<docente> not defined
<LaserJock> then I wonder if you're thin client is actually using that chroot
<docente> really? How can I find the right chroot? ;-)
<LaserJock> do you have any other LTSP servers around?
<LaserJock> and is there anything other than i386 in /opt/ltsp/ ?
<docente> no, I'm coming from a reinstallation complete of the server
<LaserJock> I'm really not the person to help you. I've only briefly used LTSP
<docente> There is a folder named images
<docente> with i386.img inside
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I'm confused as to why you seem to have it installed in the chroot but the client can't see it
<docente> any direction?
<LaserJock> well, you might want to ask #ltsp
<docente> me too, ok I will go there, thank you
<LaserJock> ogra: did you get my previous question
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'm working on my DSL atm
<LaserJock> ogra: I've got a question about the content server spec regarding splitting up the moodle package
<ogra> just got a new firewall in place :)
<ogra> sure, shoot
<LaserJock> well, I guess I'm just wondering what we need to do
<ogra> (note tat is was a request from the security team)
<LaserJock> the wiki page said that there are more upstream?
<ogra> i only care about our package :)
<LaserJock> and is it splitting up into separate binary packages or source packages
<ogra> its adding deps and not use the builtin functions first ...
<ogra> then splitting out the remaining ones in separate binaries
<ogra> some of them are already in the archive in separate packages
<ogra> making sure moodle works with them will be the hardest part
<ogra> might need code changes or at least config changes
<LaserJock> ok, so moodle is including it's own libs?
<ogra> right
<ogra> duplicates
<LaserJock> and not deping on the ones in the archive
<ogra> exactly
<ogra> and additionally there are modules that should be split into separate binaries
<LaserJock> ok, but we don't need new source packages
<LaserJock> ?
<ogra> so security updates dont require to change the whole moodle source
<ogra> hmm, i'll have ot ask kees if he wants a complete source split as well
<LaserJock> well, if it's just new binary packages from the same source does it matter?
<ogra> thats getting hairy
<LaserJock> I can definately see changing the duplicates
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if separating the rest out into separate packages is gonna help much
<LaserJock> unless you build new source packages
<ogra> if its separate sources and you have a security update it does i guess
<LaserJock> which then becomes a lot more maintanence
<ogra> its more maintenance work for the general package maintenance
<LaserJock> right, I'm just saying that since Ubuntu is source-only uploads separating binary packages doesn't help security
<ogra> but less QA and maintenance work for the security team
<ogra> no, only source split will help
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> i'll discuss that with kees
<ogra> the spec is on my desk for implementation now anyway
<LaserJock> and that gets a bit hairy if it's from the same tarball
<ogra> colin assigned it to me since edubuntu-content-server was made a hardy target
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> something for you to do :-)
<ogra> yeah, i'm so bored :P
<LaserJock> ogra: did you see pitti's -devel request earlier to merge the Ubuntu seed changes in?
<ogra> i'll be drowning in classmate specs and have to do the CD redesign
<ogra> i'll care for seeds after my spec work is done
<LaserJock> I'm at my grandfather's house until Sunday but I forgot my crossover cable so i can't do any CMPC testing :(
#edubuntu 2007-11-23
<moliver> can anyone talk me through "shutting down X" so I can install my nvidia drivers?
<effie_jayx> RichEd, :D
<RichEd> hi effie_jayx
<Joris_> anyone arround?
<Joris_> I have an edubuntu ltsp setup; upgraded it and now I'm having trouble with (probably) the lts.conf
<stgraber> ogra: Do you know if there is a command to shutdown the system without being root (like the logout box does) ?
<jamey-uk> I'm looking to build a thin client network to initially 36 clients. So far my requirements are: AMD Opteron/Intel Xeon dual-core processor, 4GB RAM, 1TB RAID 1 storage. Is software RAID rubbish? Are there motherboards with hardware RAID at a reasonable cost?
<Amaranth> stgraber: That only works because it talks to xdm/gdm/kdm which is running as root
#edubuntu 2007-11-24
<MagicFab> I am using an Edubuntu 7.10 CD but don't see server / workstation install options at boot time.
<MagicFab> Are those available from the GUI installer ?
<LaserJock> MagicFab: which CD did you use?
<MagicFab> LaserJock, neevermind - I inserted the wrong CD!
<MagicFab> but tx
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> np
<MagicFab> Is the workstation option of the server CD the same as installing using the Desktop live CD ?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the workstation install is basically Ubuntu at this point
<LaserJock> the desktop CD has some edu apps
<MagicFab> k
<tony_j> I think gutsy gibbon is screwing my system up.
<flubber> quit
<Drakeweb> hey, anyone using Neoware EON 3000/4000 thin clients on edubuntu?
<Drakeweb> I'm having trouble booting ... they PXE and I get the graphical edubuntu loading screen, then it all goes dark and my monitor reports no signal
<Drakeweb> I'm assuming it's an xwindows thing, but am not sure how to proceed
<stgraber> did you try forcing the resolution and depth in the lts.conf file ?
<Drakeweb> sorry - dropped out and back again. Anyone using neoware eon 3000/4000 thin clients?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Drakeweb, <stgraber> did you try forcing the resolution and depth in the lts.conf file ?
#edubuntu 2007-11-25
<loguser1> my storage partitions just disappear... some times 2 ntfs drives. some times all.... why. iam using dolphin , k 7.10 ?
<loguser1> my storage partitions just disappear... some times 2 ntfs drives. some times all.... why. iam using dolphin , k 7.10 ?
<loguser1_>  how to unmount and mount again , a partition ?
<loguser1_> what is the partition editor utility for kubuntu. as gparted is for ubuntu ?
<loguser1> i cant access ntfs partitions since upgrade to 7.10 . any help?
<mhz> highvoltage: rebel without a pause...ping!
<highvoltage> mhz: pong!
<mhz> hey ya!!
<highvoltage> yo!
<mhz> loooong time no see ya
<highvoltage> ya, what up dog?
<mhz> we had a little Ubuntu-Cl meeting yestarday. Pedro Villavicencio, Miguel Ruiz  were also present
<mhz> and we wathced some photos of ogra and many of the ubuntu gang people
<mhz> highvoltage: and then I realized that many of the ubuntu-cl only post in spanish, spanish blogs, etc.
<mhz> so, I was wondering..."rebel without a puse" should know about this:
<highvoltage> :)
<mhz> If I have a moin + rss instance, can this be "called by" ubuntu planet ?
<mhz> planet ubuntu
<highvoltage> yes, it can
<highvoltage> the catch is that planet ubuntu is english only
<mhz> exactly
<highvoltage> but I think there's a spanish planet ubuntu too
<mhz> my wiki pages are usually in english
<highvoltage> ah, there's a chile planet
<highvoltage> yes , you could probably link planet to your rss feed on the wiki
<highvoltage> not sure what moin-moin gives
<mhz> yeah, the thing is this: ubuntu-cl post about anything in spanish. No chilean is telling what we are doing here (many things, many stuff with education, etc). So, What if I posted on my "wiki blog"?
<highvoltage> but planet can indeed use pretty much any rss feed you give it
<highvoltage> mhz: I think that should be fine.
<mhz> great!
<highvoltage> mhz: some people even wrote their own blogging software, the tools you use to generate the rss isn't so important
<mhz> Also, I am on the middle of a "wiki training". I mean, I am designing one
<highvoltage> mhz: you should just make sure that you're the only one who can edit your blog page, otherwise others might abuse it.
<mhz> do we have anything about it already done?  /me does not want to invent the wheel
<mhz> highvoltage: ACL rules all:read ;)
<highvoltage> :)
<mhz> highvoltage: how's things going on the tuxlabs?
<highvoltage> mhz: on planet ubuntu, there are instructions for how to add your blog on the side panel, I think you should just have to follow that
<highvoltage> mhz: tuxlabs are good, I'm not with them anymore though
<mhz> are you also putting your hands on OLPC or other initiatives alike?
<highvoltage> mhz: doing government installations now, not as much fun!
<mhz> no?
<mhz> booh
<mhz> that happens when you are a good boy! Governments always wanna catch you!
<highvoltage> mhz: I'd like to get involved with OLPC at some point, but right now I'm smothered in work, so it will have to wait a it
<highvoltage> mhz: well, I don't work for the government itself, I work for one of the service providers
<highvoltage> I don't think I'd do well in government itself, too much rules and beurocracy!
<mhz> a couple of weeks before, I got a very interesting URL about a motherboard with processor included, for about $50 us dollars
<mhz> highvoltage: of course, you are not the gov. type, you are a rebel
<highvoltage> yeah!
<mhz> re the motherboard/ you only had to add RAM and a nice box.
<highvoltage> mhz: wow, do you have a link for that?
<mhz> yup, gimme a sec
<mhz> in the meantime, this is the training I am designing (based on many Moin useful tips). I will have to add more contents, of course. I'd appreciate if people let me know what they'd like to know about so that I can include it.
<mhz> http://wiki.ubuntu-cl.org/MauricioHernandez/MoinTraining
<mhz> and it is intended to be displayed with the action "SingleSlideShow"
<mhz> the one we still do not have implemented on ubuntu wikis :(
<highvoltage> just a sec.. brb
 * highvoltage looks at link
<highvoltage> mhz: nice, who's getting the training, ubuntu-cl?
<highvoltage> or is it more generic?
<mhz> i wanted to do it more generic, but also covering Admin stuff, and a chapter for users who have to create a user, then add themselves to a group in order to get ptivileges to edit.
<mhz> Anyways, yes, Ubuntu-cl will get trained, also the company I work for (some managers are very impressed with what Moin can do).
<highvoltage> nice
<mhz> and, I was thinking that once I give those 2 trainings, I could get ready for a Ubuntu community training on wiki
<mhz> highvoltage: in you opinion, how's the edubuntu people dealing with wiki editing/collaborating ?
<mhz> highvoltage: re the MB/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5305482907.html
<mhz> and http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS7114714037.html
<mhz> and it was $60, sorry
<highvoltage> mhz: willvdl was going to sort out our wiki stuff, I think he made some progress, but to be honest I think we need someone to pick it up again
<highvoltage> ah yes, the gpc is all the rage.
<highvoltage> didn't realise you could buy the board seperately, nice!
<mhz> highvoltage: so, you are dealing with all wiki instances on ubuntu?
<mhz> highvoltage: yeah! nice MB!
<highvoltage> pity it has a fan though :-/
<mhz> well...it depends
<highvoltage> I'm not a big fan of the Via Unichrome display chip either
<highvoltage> (it's drivers on linux is quite flakey atm)
<highvoltage> otherwise very nice board, would be great on ltspp + local apps
<mhz> yeah, but the strong point is: "Despite support call costs of just over $30, the TC2502 will be "profitable all through the channel," Kim expects. One key might be using parts not supported by Vista, thus getting away from Microsoft's restrictions on hardware. Like the Everex PC, the gOS Dev Board supports XP, Windows 2000, and Windows CE, but not Vista. "
<mhz> exactly!, ltsp will rule on that MB
<highvoltage> yeah.
<LaserRock> hi mhz
<mhz> hi LaserRock!
<mhz> yeah, that nick I know
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> just as I was about to shut down, LaserJock Rocks up.
<highvoltage> LaserJock, we you there?
<LaserJock> man, I resumed from hibernation this morning and had some weird stuff
<mhz> highvoltage: so before you leave, could you please let me know what are/have been the most difficult issues people have been facing on the wiki editing?
<LaserJock> so I rebooted
<LaserJock> and on reboot got a bunch of fsck problem
<LaserJock> ran fsck manually and had a ton of problems
<highvoltage> mhz: I don't think editing itself is suck an issue, more /keeping/ pages updated once their created
<highvoltage> mhz: and to keep things organised
<LaserJock> finally got out of that and my madwifi kernel modules got eaten in the fsck
<mhz> highvoltage: true...organizing is a beuatiful wiki science
<LaserJock> luckily I hadn't cleaned my apt cache and was able to reinstall ubuntu-restricted-modules
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I could've finished out new edubuntu site/stuff this weekend if I had the right permissions on the server, can only sort that out when the c7l staff are back at work
<highvoltage> (ie tomorrow)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: do you think these colors are ok? http://jono.co.za/drupal/
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you gotta wait for a Canonical sysadmin?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: they have to change the permissions on the folders :/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: afaik only Znarl and elmo has root on that machine
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> right
<highvoltage> LaserJock: when philip updated the site last, the group permissions got reset, and isn't writable by the edubuntu group anymore
<LaserJock> highvoltage: only suggest would be to maybe go with more of an orange for the bottom of the gradient
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> like the orange that's in the edubuntu logo
<highvoltage> ah, was just about to ask. ok.
<mhz> highvoltage: and whou should I request to implement the SingleSlideShow plugin
<LaserJock> I think maybe there's a bit too much color change
<highvoltage> mhz: ask heno, he would know
<mhz> and hopefully upgrade to a newer Moin version?
<LaserJock> mhz: new moin on what?
<highvoltage> mhz: just a warning, moin on the ubuntu servers is ancient
<mhz> exactly! :d
<highvoltage> mhz: and their a bit scared to do such a big upgrade
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wiki.{ed,k,u}buntu.com
<mhz> oh
<LaserJock> yeah, the Doc team has been trying to get an upgrade for over a year
<mhz> LaserJock: and what have been the most relevant arguments against upgrading?
<mhz> highvoltage: ohh, one more important detail!
<LaserJock> sysadmins don't have time and it's a "big job"
<highvoltage> their just afraid the entire thing will melt down.
<LaserJock> basically
<highvoltage> they should really just test it on a spare machine from backups and see what happens
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> it's just gonna take a big push for time
<mhz> highvoltage: I am trying to convince some of the ubuntu-cl pals around here to have monthly ubuntu coffee sessions streming live
<highvoltage> mhz: sounds interesting
<LaserJock> highvoltage: that theme is pretty rocking though
<LaserJock> I'll be excited to get it live
<mhz> highvoltage: but, do we have something to "tube" these streamings on ubuntu servers?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep, will probably put it up tomorrow night. will have to fix some things that might not look good anymore, but I've tested the old fridge theme on edubuntu.org and things did fit in at least, so hopefully it won't need too much adjusting
<mhz> highvoltage: I like that drupal look, very relaxing in red.
<highvoltage> mhz: no idea, to be honest. I think canonical is looking for something for the UDS's too
<LaserJock> highvoltage: excellent
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if the Screencasts team has looked at streaming yet or not
<highvoltage> mhz: what do you want to stream, screencasts or live video?
<mhz> hmmm, ok, thanks a lot for staying up this late (for you) to tell me about all this
<LaserJock> I think there's also been some thoughts thrown around of like an Ubuntu Radio
<highvoltage> it's not that late yet, but I need to switch the computer off about an hour before I go sleep, otherwise I can't :)
<mhz> both, live video, and then material to watch it.
<mhz> "material to be watched" (if my grammar is correct)
<mhz> LaserJock: but how about using "virtual instances" of Moin. Would that still be terrifyin for Admins to think about migrating?
<mhz> at least they could test before migrating :)
<LaserJock> mhz: I have no idea
<LaserJock> I just know that we've wanted to get wiki.u.c and help.u.c updated for the Doc team for a long time
<mhz> so, heno would be the one I should ask about it?
<LaserJock> it's getting closer to being an issue
<LaserJock> mhz: as far as getting the wiki updated?
<mhz> LaserJock: I can imagine, that's why I am getting concerned about the "wiki issue"
<mhz> as far as getting the wiki updated? yup.
<LaserJock> well, you might ask the doc team
<mhz> you know that Moin devels would always be willing to lend hands
<LaserJock> since they're sort of the big users
<LaserJock> specifically mdke for getting an idea if it's currently on the sysadmin TODO list
<mhz> the good old mdke
<LaserJock> yep
<mhz> well, AFAIK, I still see the good old Edubuntu gang faces
<mhz> faces = nicks
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> good to see you
<mhz> it is just a pity that I still can't get chilean people to help on Edubuntu. Most of them (almos all) help on Ubuntu things, and usually in spanish only.
<mhz> I'd like to see more chilean faces on Edubuntu, because after many talks and presentations, I always get "wow! Edubuntu sounds great idea!" but...no more hands working on/with it, at least in Chile
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> that's somewhat common around the world I think
<LaserJock> as long as people are busy *using* Edubuntu I feel better
<LaserJock> ;-)
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> yeah, it works as "consolation prize"
<mhz> We have a couple of schools using ubuntu and edubuntu now in Chile (about 3 or 5, IRRC) but I see no people form such schools getting their hands helping you guys
<mhz> At least, now that I am moving to an apartment where I can have no issues with network, I will finally get back to some of the old stuff I liked to do
<LaserJock> great
<bluekuja> heya mhz!!!
<mhz> bluekuja: hey ya!
<bluekuja> mhz, long time no see! where did you go???
<mhz> to hell and back :D
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> I was missing you! :)
<bluekuja> I don't see you around here since months
<mhz> man, I survided almost 1 year with no internet access
<bluekuja> or even more than an year
<bluekuja> aww, that's why! :)
<bluekuja> I thought you wanted to stop working on edubuntu
<bluekuja> and you left
<mhz> not at all
<bluekuja> reaaaaally great to have you back! :)
<mhz> but as I had no internet access (still dont, for  at least 15 more days..but I have at work)
<mhz> I was "forced" to be more active on our Chilean LoCo
<mhz> so, we've done some very interesting things as a LoCo
<mhz> but of course, everything gets poseted in spanish so we never informed to the english channels properly. Now this will change. I will get to keep everyone informed about what we are doing, in english.
<mhz> bluekuja: how about you?
<bluekuja> mhz, since you left I kept working on Edubuntu in Italy
<bluekuja> I become a Developer
<mhz> wow! congrats!
<bluekuja> thanks :)
<bluekuja> do you remember when I was going for the ubuntu membership?
<PeterPan_>  can any one recomend a good dictionary to install ?
<mhz> of course
<bluekuja> you left just before that?
<bluekuja> or after?
<mhz> IIRC, "in the middle of it" ;)
<mhz> or...just when you got it
<mhz> PeterPan_: dpends on what kind of usage you need the dict for
<bluekuja> mhz, lol, true
<bluekuja> mhz, anyway a LOT of things changed during this period of time
<mhz> tell me, tell me
 * mhz wants to catch up
<bluekuja> hehe
<bluekuja> we have new members in the CC
<bluekuja> we have a motu-council now
<bluekuja> we have sponsorship groups both for main and universe
<PeterPan_> mhz:  maximum vocabulary. if multimedia with videos and sounds and speller would be better
<mhz> but now I am limited to possible wiki help...because I have no computer of my own, just his laptop that belongs to the company. And so far, despite I have already convinced at least 7 people working with Ubuntu all day long...my manager still wants me to use M$.
<bluekuja> mhz, awww :/
<bluekuja> mhz, that's not a good news
<mhz> PeterPan_: then, nope, no idea. I know default Edubuntu dictionary only
<bluekuja> mhz, did you know we have PPA now?
<PeterPan_> mhz whatas that
<mhz> bluekuja: but, the good thing is that I still convince people to use ubuntu :) and that I have internet acces at work to help every time I can.
<bluekuja> mhz, https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
 * mhz reading about PPA
<bluekuja> mhz, yes, at least we have you back
<mhz> oh, great to have independent councils
<bluekuja> mhz, I'm really happy to see you again here, really
<mhz> oh, and I am even happier to see friendly old faces here
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> mhz, yes, we have different councils now
<mhz> and also, lots of new ubuntu memebers
<bluekuja> yep
<bluekuja> the community is getting bigger and bigger
<bluekuja> really
<mhz> PPA great idea...is it getting more people to code?
<mhz> but, how about edubuntu specific growth?
<bluekuja> well, it's helping a lot ppl who dont have a good system to build stuff (plus it allows builds for amd64 and lpia now)
<bluekuja> and that's a very great thing
<mhz> don't misinterpret me, please. I am VERY happy for all this growth and new initiatives. My humble question is: are we getting quality and quantity too?
<bluekuja> you can test stuff on more than an arch, and that's cool
<bluekuja> mhz, I think yes
<mhz> PERFECT!
<bluekuja> mhz, anyway Ubuntu is still the best desktop enviroment
<bluekuja> and I see tons of ppl coming to Ubuntu everyday
<mhz> yup, very mature too
<bluekuja> checking italian/international forums
<bluekuja> plus new contributors
<mhz> and next LTS version will open new doors
<bluekuja> yep
<mhz> esp. considering many vista users are so frustrated
<bluekuja> yeah, vista failed
<bluekuja> miserably
<mhz> I'd say "perfectly" instead
<bluekuja> lol
<bluekuja> agredd
<bluekuja> *agreed
<mhz> but that also gives us a biger responsibility
<mhz> it is a chance we have to be very clever to take
<mhz> I heard about the 300 motu's project
<mhz> Is there a "plan" for it?
<mhz> (i mean, strategically speaking)
<bluekuja> what's that? and where did you read about that?
<mhz> kind of "how to get 300 motus by the end of 2008"
<mhz> bluekuja: ooops, maybe I shouldn't have heard that
<bluekuja> lol, why?
<mhz> yesterday, during our first Ubuntu Chile meeting, some of the "to become motu" guys told me something about it
<mhz> we need urgently about 300 motus
<mhz> and there is this idea of "you gotta catch'em all"
<mhz> but I never got to ask "how?"
<bluekuja> strange, never heard about that
<mhz> maybe #ubuntu-motu could tell (if interested)
<bluekuja> mhz, ok, I'm going to sleep now...went bed tooo late yesterday (5am)
<mhz> eeek, that was "early!"
<bluekuja> :D
<mhz> bluekuja: it was VERY nice talking to you, at least this bit
<bluekuja> mhz, same for me :)
<bluekuja> you're still an old good friend
<mhz> no worries, you'll see me more often, that's a promise
<mhz> thank you man
<mhz> sleep well
<bluekuja> glad to hear that! take care and see you tomorrow
<bluekuja> thanks, cu :)
<pusakat> is there a pdf version of the edubuntu handbook somewhere? if not, what guidelines do i need to follow to make one?
<LaserJock> I don't think there is a PDF
<LaserJock> you'd have to be able to turn docbook or HTML into PDF
<pusakat> yeah, was thinking of how to do that with the xml files, but will need to work on it some.
<LaserJock> well, there are a few ways to do it I think
<pusakat> thanks.
<LaserJock> apache's FOP stuff is one
<LaserJock> also docbook -> latex -> PDF (via pdflatex) can be done
 * pusakat wants to steer clear of java though, so fop isn't a go.
<LaserJock> k
<pusakat> i'll prolly try the latex route
<LaserJock> well, this is part of why PDFs don't currently exist
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> it's not trivial to do
<pusakat> understood.
<pusakat> i was thinking of doing it the non-automated way first, but it's tedious.
<LaserJock> but we really should have one
<LaserJock> it's a fairly common request
<nonsparker> hey is anyone around?
<nonsparker> that can help me with a thin client auto login issue
<johnny> using?
<nonsparker> gutsy
<johnny> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161794 in ltsp "autologin doesn't work" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<johnny> does that descripbe your issue?
<nonsparker> yeah
<johnny> mine too
<johnny> and it looks like there is a fix now too :)
<nonsparker> yeah
<johnny> that was easy ... for you :)
<johnny> i spent awhile trying to figure it out :)
<nonsparker> is the fix in the link you sent me?
<johnny> at the bottom
<nonsparker> ok
<nonsparker> I'll take a look
<nonsparker> johnny you rock
<johnny> no.. vagrantc does :)
<nonsparker> so what did you do? edit the file your self
<johnny> haven't applied it yet
<johnny> i just discovered that right now
<nonsparker> cool
<johnny> hopefully it works
<johnny> i'll be trying it in the next half hour
<nonsparker> I will be trying it soon as well
<nonsparker> ok johnny it's the moment of truth
<nonsparker> I'm not having any luck
<nonsparker> johnny: are you having any luck?
<johnny> not there yet
<nonsparker> ahhh
<nonsparker> I don't think it solves the issue
<nonsparker> I edited the screen.d/ldm file with the changes
<nonsparker> and the resuts were the same black screen with 'x' cursor
<johnny> did you rebuild your image?
<nonsparker> good idea
<nonsparker> sorry I'm still new at this
<nonsparker> I'm rebuilding now
<nonsparker> ok i rebuilt my image and it still does not work
<johnny> comment on that bug and say you tried it
<nonsparker> I did
<nonsparker> thanks for the help
#edubuntu 2008-11-17
<zsquareplusc> netboot experts awake? i'm almost there but my NFS sever doesn't seem to support nfs over tcp but the livecd insists on tcp
* LaserJock changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu || 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download || Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs || LTSP questions? try #ltsp
<LaserJock> that seems a little better
<Guest28987> hyi
<Guest28987> can anybody help i have an issue
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Guest28987: What can I help you with?
<Guest28987> having an installation problem
<Guest28987> but i think its because i burned ubuntu too quickly onto the cd
<Guest28987> the slower the download the better the results of the os
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yessir
<LaserJock> sbalneav: have you opened any Hardy tasks?
<sbalneav> No, not yet
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I noticed that you marked some bugs Fix Commited
<sbalneav> I'm going to have some time tonight, so I'll do more triaging, and open some then
<sbalneav> Yeah, fix committed upstream
<sbalneav> But not in hardy
<LaserJock> sbalneav: can you attach those to an "upstream" bug report?
<sbalneav> Surely
<sbalneav> You around tonight?
<LaserJock> probably
<sbalneav> ok, if I need some pointers, I'll yelp :)
<sbalneav> gnome humour
<LaserJock> we normally mark Fix Committed when either 1) we've uploaded but it's not yet hit the mirrors or 2) it will be included in the next upload
<LaserJock> Fix Committed makes sense but it would be good to have an upstream bug we can watch to make sure we close the bug when it hits Ubuntu
<LaserJock> sbalneav: does that make sense?
<sbalneav> Absolutely
<LaserJock> k
<sbalneav> Sorry I'm mucking up the works with my ham-handedness :)
<LaserJock> well, you're not mucking up much of anything
<LaserJock> *any* activity is a plus
<LaserJock> but it might help us close the bugs in the future if we can track where they are upstream, etc.
<sbalneav> Meh, well, I tend to focus purely on the code, and fix problems without doing the necessary "paperwork" in the bug database.
<LaserJock> I know what you mean
<LaserJock> I do that a lot too
<sbalneav> Which, in a shared environment, is't a very good practice.
<LaserJock> it also gives, IMO, a bit better view to the users
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it looks like you've assigned yourself to stuff you're working on
<LaserJock> that really rocks
<sbalneav> Well, buck's gotta stop somewhere.
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> I was noticing that out of our 252 open bugs only 31 are assigned
<LaserJock> which is only 12%
<LaserJock> :(
<sbalneav> Hm
<sbalneav> Well, let me whittle down the LTSP ones a bit, and I may be able to cherry pick some bugs in other packages as time allows.
<LaserJock> well, ltsp/ldm is a big chunk
<sbalneav> Right, and we can get them closed off fairly soon.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: oh, when you ask questions or are waiting on a reporter for info do you mark the bug Incomplete?
<sbalneav> Yeah.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I saw you were weilding the Invalid hacket nicely ;-)
<LaserJock> brb
#edubuntu 2008-11-18
<freetown> anybody here using Promethean boards?
<sbalneav> No, link?
<freetown> this one should be good: http://www.prometheanworld.com/us/
<freetown> i heard there was a beta for ActivStudio on Linux...and a promethean contact told me that they would finally be doing a release in a few months...and ubuntu was one of the platform distros
<freetown> just wondered if any here had a go with the beta
<sbalneav> Not that I'm aware of.
<sbalneav> This cheeses me off to no end.
<sbalneav> sbalneav@phobos:~/Devel/bzr/ltsp-docs-trunk$ docbook2txt LTSPManual.xml
<sbalneav> Using catalogs: /etc/sgml/catalog
<sbalneav> Using stylesheet: /usr/share/docbook-utils/docbook-utils.dsl#html
<sbalneav> I'm trying to get plaintext docs for vagrant.
<sbalneav> WHY'S IT USING THE HTML STYLESHEET?
<sbalneav> styupid Thang
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you workin' tonight?
<sbalneav> I am!
<sbalneav> Hot into the docs, ATM
<LaserJock> sbalneav: lol, you actually use GNU/Linux? :-)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> Looking at the docs?
<sbalneav> Hold on, lemme push the latest, MUCH CLEANED UP docs...
<sbalneav> LaserJock: pushed
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pretty darn impressive
<sbalneav> Getting there.
<sbalneav> Getting it organized is surprisingly difficult
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you gonna put it up on ltsp.org when you're done?
<sbalneav> There's such a lot of disparate information in there.
<sbalneav> Already there
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<sbalneav> Here's an interesting one.
<sbalneav> I'd like to get a plaintext formatted version of the docs (.txt file)
<sbalneav> but when I do docbook2txt LTSPManual.xml
<sbalneav> it formats it with the html stylesheet.
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<LaserJock> I don't know that I've ever tried docbook2txt
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you use sabayon or pesselus at all?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: No, I just set up default panel entries
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so you don't lock down at all?
<LaserJock> I guess with your setting you can assume the users will behave better ;-)
<sbalneav> yeah
<LaserJock> sabayon seems to be really in bad shape
<LaserJock> I wonder if Edubuntu could put some concerted effort into it
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Fritz87> hello everyone
<Lns> Hi Fritz87
<LaserJock> hello all
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> Scottie!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you wanting a package for the LTSP docs like now?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: doh, lynx was the key to getting docbook2txt to work?
<sbalneav> Errr
<sbalneav> Sure :)
<LaserJock> lol
<sbalneav> It would be great if you could show me how to get something I could put in my PPA
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering how close you are to feeling "done" with it
<sbalneav> Well, if I could do it with my PPA, I could just update them whenever.
<sbalneav> They've got weeks and weeks of work until they're "done".... If ever :)
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> well, at some point do you want it to go into Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> we could make it a dep of ltsp or something
<sbalneav> Well, I guess my goal is to have something half-decent for inclusion in Jaunty
<sbalneav> I'd say I'm at least 70% of the way there.
<sbalneav> At some point I'll hit 80%, then the 80/20 rule will kick in, but for now, I could have something "more or less" ready in another week or two
<LaserJock> I don't see where you install the .txt version in your install rule
<sbalneav> so if we start on the packaging now, that'd be great.
<sbalneav> how hard is it?
<LaserJock> is what?
<sbalneav> the packaging part
<LaserJock> oh, well I can get you one that will install in ~ 5min or so
<LaserJock> getting one that's perfect will take a bit of tweaking to make sure everything is all nice
<sbalneav> You are so beautiful... to me....
<LaserJock> put just installing the pdf, html, and txt is trivial
<LaserJock> it's getting it all set up with yelp that takes a bit more effort
<LaserJock> as it's more than just dropping files in
<LaserJock> but not much more
<sbalneav> well, if we could just get  the (pdf,html,txt) files in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-docs, that'd be awesome.  The yelp thing would be perfectamundo.
<LaserJock> we should also install for Khelpcenter as well
<sbalneav> yessir
<LaserJock> you know, just in case people are using that *other* DE
<sbalneav> Phhht.
 * sbalneav looks around for Aaron Seigo
<LaserJock> Khelpcenter uses HTML still I think
<sbalneav> That guy's like 10 feet tall, and can melt skyscrapers with hit *mind* man.
<LaserJock> you just need to drop a .desktop in the right I think
<sbalneav> We don't want to cheese him off.
<LaserJock> lol
<sbalneav> whoops s/hit/his/
<sbalneav> That'll teach you to show up in #ltsp :)
<LaserJock> I guess
<sbalneav> We'll have you writing code next.
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> nuts ... all nuts I tell you
<sbalneav> Nah, just makes sense, if you're going to give me a hand with this, you might as well have permission to -trunk
<LaserJock> it's a good thing you caught me on my birthday, I'm in a giving mood ;-)
<sbalneav> Is it your Birfday today?
 * sbalneav slides LaserJock a pale amber carbonated beverage
<sbalneav> Happy birthday!
<ogra> HAPPY BDAY !
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm feeling old today
<sbalneav> All in favour of voting LaserJock a Fine Upstanding Citizen, and Capital Fellow, vote now!
<sbalneav> ++
<LaserJock> yeah, exactly what I thought ;-p
<ogra> ++
<Lns> LaserJock: Happy bday! *hands LJ another beer to doublefist*
<Moonstorm> does one even need a client with this?
<LaserJock> Moonstorm: with Edubuntu?
<Moonstorm> wireless usb to vga adapter?
<Moonstorm> wouldn't one be able to open a session on the server?
<Moonstorm> http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=1525&sku=29572&cm_mmc_o=HC4zbkCjC8bywkwll%20JmP%20VyBFB%20C%20niiovvvoCjCW-CjCW-
<Moonstorm> nm, it appears that may only be one display at a time, ie login at a time
<EeyoreJr> local usb works?  no?
<EeyoreJr> i was thinking i saw this a while ago
<sbalneav> EeyoreJr: You can mount usb sticks, drives, and cdroms yes.
<EeyoreJr> wacom tablets?
<EeyoreJr> nubae: hi.  i'm setting up fatclient in dhcpd.conf.  i have a question
<EeyoreJr>   host fatclient1 {
<EeyoreJr>                 hardware ethernet  the:thin:client:mac:add:ress;
<EeyoreJr>                 fixed-address 192.168.0.2;
<EeyoreJr>                 }
<EeyoreJr> i assume that i must enter a line "hardware ethernet mac_addres;" for each client
<EeyoreJr> the fixed-address line, requires me to enter an ip for each client as well?
<EeyoreJr> and "host fatclient1, 2, 3, for each client?
<Eghie> EeyoreJr: make new sections for new client
<Eghie> so every client has a host section
<EeyoreJr> so, host fatclient2, fatclient2, etc.
<Eghie> like this: http://pastebin.com/m4d584740
<EeyoreJr> Eghie: great, awesome, and thx
<Eghie> no problem
<EeyoreJr> nubae: script also has thin clients in his script.  do i need to setup the thin clients as well or allow them to do it on thier own ?
<EeyoreJr> er, will the thin clients continue to function on thier own
<EeyoreJr> ifconfig shows the address of the server mac address, not the local
<Eghie> hmm, LTSP uses Bash scripts to configure the client, guess it's very adaptable to customizations
<EeyoreJr> what is kiwi-ltsp ?
<Eghie> my hardy APT doesn't even know kiwi-ltsp
<Eghie> don't have access to Intrepid at the moment though
<Eghie> so, don't know
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: kiki-ltsp is openSUSE's LTSP implementation
<EeyoreJr> ah.  ok
<EeyoreJr> how does one find the address of the thin client in ubuntu ltsp?
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: of a currentlly connected on?
<EeyoreJr> yes
<LaserJock> I'm not a LTSP guy so I'm not much help
<EeyoreJr> for example, i'm on a thin client now.  if i do ifconfig or lspci i get the server info
<LaserJock> but does ip a in a terminal give anything useful?
<LaserJock> ah, i wondered
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: can you do a Ctrl-Alt-F1 and get to a virtual console
<LaserJock> I think those are supposed to be on the client
<EeyoreJr> ctl-alt-f1 gets me a virtual console but won't allow login
<EeyoreJr> hrm
<LaserJock> I think you need to set a root password in the chroot
<LaserJock> and then you can log in as root  on your client
<EeyoreJr> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ - is this document current?
<LaserJock> no
<EeyoreJr> grr
<LaserJock> I think it was updated for Gutsy
<EeyoreJr> ITalC is a gui for machine management where sayabon is a gui for user management
<LaserJock> right
<EeyoreJr> is there a current up to date document?
<LaserJock> sbalneav is working on one, one sec
<EeyoreJr> i've noticed this as well pessulus
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: what is the problem?
<EeyoreJr> i'm trying to locate the mac addresses for the thin clients
<EeyoreJr> ifconfig and ip and lspci show the server info
<EeyoreJr> nm, u answered it in the other forum
<stgraber> EeyoreJr: arp -n | grep $LTSP_CLIENT
<EeyoreJr> DHCPREQUEST for 10.2.2.41 from 00:e0:b8:30:f5:5c via eth1: wrong network ... r others attempting to connect ?
<EeyoreJr> the doc covers sabayon, but not Pessulus?  is pessulus
<LaserJock> EeyoreJr: is pessulus ... ?
<EeyoreJr> integrated?
<EeyoreJr> nm.  i see this is a draft
<EeyoreJr> i'll work around it and figure it out
<LaserJock> sabayon are related but different programs
<LaserJock> sabayon is more of a profile editor
<LaserJock> where pessulus is a lockdown editor
<LaserJock> pessulus doesn't do as much, but I think it does what it does better
<LaserJock> sabayon tends to not be as stable
<EeyoreJr> pessulus does better than sabayon?  it sounds as though they provide different functions
<EeyoreJr> doesn't ubuntu have a lockdown editor?
<EeyoreJr> A fatal error has occurred.  You can help us fix the problem by sending the log in /root/sabayon-debug-log.conf to http://bugzilla.gnome.org
<EeyoreJr> well, i'm hungry.  it's qutting time
#edubuntu 2008-11-19
<Ahmuck> wow, i broke my ltsp server
<LaserJock> stgraber: while you're up, I'm slowly getting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument going
<LaserJock> comments on the outline would be appreciated
<stgraber> LaserJock: ok, I'll have a look
<stgraber> LaserJock: looks good, I guess objective #3 will also be to have different set of softwares depending on the target to avoid having gcompris and rasmol with the same install :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: yeah, good point
<saliom> this room is not to do support?
<Ahmuck> saliom, yes, you can get support here if you wait
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I think he's gone :)
<Ahmuck> k, i followed nubae's script for fat clients, and now my ltsp server is borken :(
<Ahmuck> so i'm missing something
<Ahmuck> nubae: i tried your fat client setup and borked my ltsp server
<nubae> Ahmuck: and how did u do that exactly?
<ogra> he used the --bork option :)
<Ahmuck> lol
<nubae> fatclient doesnt touch the existing ltsp setup
<Ahmuck> exactly as you had it in your blog
<nubae> unless you indeed use the --bork option
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck> let me pull up the blog entry
<Ahmuck> http://www.nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid
<nubae> Ahmuck: what did u type to install fatclient script
<nubae> thanks for pointing to my own blog...
<nubae> I'm asking what YOU typed to install the script
<Ahmuck> touch 030-fatclient
<Ahmuck> sudo nano 030-fatclient
<Ahmuck> paste
<Ahmuck> save
<Ahmuck> reboot
<Ahmuck> Edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf - in this file, it appears i need to specify each thin client
<Ahmuck> by mac address
<Ahmuck> anywho, my dhcpd.conf file looks exactly as yours with the exception that is set the mac address and the ip address of the client
<nubae> how did u install the fatclient script?
<Ahmuck> the client is booting pxe and starts looking for a dhcp address, but cannot find one.  looking at the instructions, the ip address are set, so it appears that they are static?
<nubae> after editting and all...
<Ahmuck> nubae: copy/past
<Ahmuck> copy/paste
<Ahmuck> save
<Ahmuck> so i copied it from your blog, pasted it into a file and saved
<nubae> no... something along the lines of sudo ltsp-build-client --fatclient Ubuntu
<nubae> or did u not build a chroot?
<nubae> because without one, it would be hard for dhcp to find it...
<Ahmuck> er, yes.  but now that i think about it, i may have placed the script in the directory after building chroot.  i'll run through the processes again
<Ahmuck> though, it did download a ton of stuff
<nubae> Ahmuck: the script must be put into the /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu
<nubae> directory
<nubae> and then u must do ltsp-build-client --chroot name-of-chroot --fatclient Ubuntu --highfat
<nubae> the dhcp file must then contain entries to load up both normal clients and fat clients as outlined
<nubae> also, paste me your dhcpd.conf file so I can take a look: pastebin.be
<Ahmuck>  /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/ubuntu/030-fatclient - on your website
<Ahmuck> so i assume that ubuntu should be Ubuntu
<nubae> right, is it lower case on my site?
<Ahmuck> yes
<nubae> let me go fix that, good catch... :-)
<Ahmuck> i did however get it in the right directory.  removing /opt/ltsp/fati386 now for rebuild
<Ahmuck> ya, about the paste.  i have no gui at the moment on the server
<Ahmuck> :(
<nubae> ok, then email or use links
<Ahmuck> i'll fiddle with it and see if i can't get a thin client to come up and then firefox and paste
<nubae> info at nubae dot com
<Eghie> nubae: thanks for the howto on your blog, I've just read it
<nubae> Eghie: cool
<Eghie> that same kind of idea has been on my mind for a while
<Eghie> performance whise, it could be working out very well
<nubae> it does yes... if you have powerful clients, it certainly makes a difference
<Eghie> brainstorm of my on this: http://developer.thuis-online.nl/thinfatclient.txt
<Ahmuck> nubae: what is the difference in your proceedure and the other one listed on ubuntu's website?
<nubae> which one on the ubuntu site? UbuntuLTSP/fatclient ?
<nubae> Eghie: I'll take a look and see if I cant integrate some of that stuff in the next version
<nubae> but overall looks like most of that is what I've done :-)
<Eghie> I guess so yes
<nubae> except this: - Use (if harddrive exists) the harddrive, to store all the things
<Eghie> but performance wise, and also easier for clustering, I will check if I can intergrate OpenAFS to use that to share home directories
<nubae> the point is its netbooted, but local hard drive access is enabled
<Eghie> well, you also need permissions from the administrator of the machine to write to the harddrive
<Eghie> so, that should be optional
<nubae> no, I disable those on setup of client
<Eghie> ah
<nubae> I figure, if its a fat client, local access should be for a storage area or access area to global files
<Eghie> swap could also be handy
<nubae> local swap u mean?
<Eghie> yes
<nubae> yep indeed
<nubae> but not every fatclient will have a hard drive
<Eghie> no that's correct
<nubae> Id need to detect if it does, and then if it is there use local swap
<nubae> but its a good idea
<nubae> Ahmuck: the stuff on the ubuntu site was written by me too
<Ahmuck> ah.  there are two ways for fat clients ?
<Eghie> I guess the old and the new way ;)
<nubae> not really, more like a manual and automatic way
<nubae> or the old and new way like Eghie says
<Ahmuck> ah, ok
<nubae> but if ltsp is not working at all for u... then its probably a problem with your dhpcd.conf
<Eghie> nubae: the script mentioned on the blog, expects NFS as homedirectory, right?
<Eghie> uses i mean
<Eghie> does that crash the client on network hickups?
<Eghie> because 2 years ago I had my own homedirectory connected via CIFS to the server
<Eghie> but when there was a network hickup, my client crashed
<nubae> yes
<Eghie> because, I think it didn't heard of caching that much
<nubae> well, not
<nubae> hicupps so much as turning off the server
<nubae> on hiccupps there is a lag
<nubae> and then comes back
<nubae> but since its only home mounted, it generally recovers ok
<Eghie> as in, switch off, hmm reboot and stuff like that
<nubae> I've not had problems with it, lets put it that way
<nubae> right
<Eghie> or restarting NFS service/ samba service
<Eghie> those kind of hicups
<Eghie> or restarten /etc/init.d/networking
<Ahmuck> wouldn't that be done at night and users would not be present?
<Eghie> nah, it could be recovery work for your network services, or adding a network client, or messing with IPtables, or some things like that
<Eghie> or even unstable switches
<nubae> that generally is ok, its turning off the server that kills it
<nubae> other elements it recovers from
<nubae> again, in my experience
<Eghie> hmm ok
<Eghie> guess that NFS has enough caching support to handle that
<Eghie> wireless PXE boot is still not possible, or is it?
<nubae> pxe boot, no
<nubae> but there are workarounds
<Eghie> installing a basic variant of the LTSP client OS on the client, and setup the network service via wireless
<nubae> more like usb sticks
<Eghie> or via initrd and then load the rest via network
<nubae> right
<Eghie> well, I don't use wireless clients
<Eghie> but could be usefull
<Eghie> if it worked though
<nubae> it would work ok with netbooted fatclients
<Eghie> seems not many people tried LTSP fat client
<Eghie> not that many sources/articles/questions on that one on the internet
<nubae> nah, but I get a lot of hits to the blog so enough...
<Eghie> did you also have quota problems?
<Eghie> or not using quota's?
<Ahmuck> actually, i need quota's 4 sure
<Eghie> well, what do you do, when a user his homedirectory is full?
<Eghie> he will not be able to login agai
<Eghie> n
<Eghie> so he will not be able to cleanup his own homedirectory
<Ahmuck> rm -rf *.mp3 from home directory :)
<Ahmuck> :(, i'm going to re-install
<Ahmuck> i've been looking at some ltsp client machines, however with intels atom proc and boards, one can build a ful fledge fat client for the same price they are asking
#edubuntu 2008-11-20
<Eeyore-Jr> nubae: r u around?  link here http://pastebin.com/m47513385
<Eeyore-Jr> exportfs: duplicated export entries:
<Eeyore-Jr> exportfs: 	192.168.0.0/24:/home
<Eeyore-Jr> exportfs: 	192.168.0.0/24:/home
<Eeyore-Jr> arg !!?
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: what does your /etc/exports look like?
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: thx, that fixed it
<Eeyore-Jr> i noticed that it also enters it into the kernel ?
<sbalneav> enters what into the kernel?
<Eeyore-Jr> ss to mount a file tree, and parts of the list which are active are kept in the kernel's export table.
<Eeyore-Jr> http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl8_exportfs.htm
<Eeyore-Jr> sudo ltsp-build-client --chroot (name-of-chroot) --fatclient Ubuntu --highfat -- where (name-of-chroot) is (fati386) with the paranthesis or not ?
<sbalneav> i'd say no parenthesis
<Eeyore-Jr> sudo ltsp-build-client --chroot fati386 --fatclient Ubuntu --highfat
<Eeyore-Jr> i've been doing it with the paranthesis
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: where is your docs located ?
<Eeyore-Jr> do you have a link ?
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<Eeyore-Jr> i like the title.  i'm thinking about ditching my computer for a thin client system in my house
<sbalneav> I'm sure someone will want me to get rid of the subtitle, but I love the movie Dr. Strangelove, so...
<bastian> hi
<OculusAquilae> Does somebody know where I can find some documentation regarding iTalc?
<OculusAquilae> I found it, its on italc.sourceforge.net
<nubae> yeah but for ltsp, u should look elsewhere
<nubae> if u are using ltsp with italc look here: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
<OculusAquilae> nubae: thanks
<jrock2004> does anyone know if there is an ubuntu LTSP irc channel?
<ogra> #ltsp :)
<ogra> most ubunt ltsp devs are active there
<jrock2004> well can they help with ubuntu version though
<ogra> *ubuntu
<jrock2004> ah ok
<jrock2004> thanks
#edubuntu 2008-11-21
<Eeyore-Jr> http://pastebin.com/m44377e7c - can anyone tell me why this would not work?
<ogra> it would, but only if you force ltsp to use nfs
<Ahmuck> http://www.nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid - i followed this document
<Ahmuck> It's not working for us, and were not sure why
<Ahmuck> vanilla server, and followed to the letter document
<ogra> well, only nubae can help
<ogra> i wrote big parts of ltsp but have no clue at all abotu fatclients
<Ahmuck> :( nubae is gone today ...
<Ahmuck> i guess i'll have to stick with thin till i can figure out why switching to a fat client dhcpd.conf like he has listed causes no client boots
<Ahmuck> i'll be building a ubuntu ibex binary for ltsp on a g3 mac.  i assume there is not one already.
<colton_> What are the advantages of edubuntu over the other ubuntu distros?
<Ahmuck> edubuntu is educational centered
<colton_> educational centered? oh. 'edu' got it. That's interesting.
<rat> hello i just instalt ubuntu 8.04 on a old laptop for the kids
<rat> not edubuntu just ubuntu becouse i had it lying aroud
<rat> around
<rat> how do i make it edubuntu now
<nubae> rat: just download the edubuntu add-on cd
<nubae> edubuntu is no longer a distro, just an add-on cd with the educational apps
<nubae> and themes
<rat> oke
<rat> but i can i do it from teriman 2
<rat> terminal
<rat> apt-get ????
<rat> i,m upgrading it to ubuuntu 8.10 now
<morgs> rat: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop will probably do what you want
<rat> thanks
<rat> found more to instal in synaptic
<rat> gona try
<nubae> edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-artwork
<smudge> Hi All, I am setting up a schools computer club project in the Caribbean. I want to (obviously) use Edubuntu... Is there are "community" of other people trying something similar housed at Ubuntu? I am looking for shared ideas and hardware best options.
<nubae> smudge: how many computers, what specs?
<smudge> Hey Nubae. We have 12 computers now which are very old. Will try installation today, but assume that I will fund raise for others from our free software project (www.barnraiser.org). If that works I will aim to expand. I would like to know what we should aim for. Rugged laptops / cheap desktops / thin clients?
<smudge> Also, does Edubuntu case study projects? Anything I can read up on?
<mavci> hi, i want to install edubuntu with ltsp to be used in a 30 computer network environment. Clients will use Firefox 3, Open Office and Eclipse most of the time. When we try with 8.04, our main problems were slowness because of sshfs and local program running support. Will 8.10 change anything?
<Eghie> Eclipse could be the problem of the slowness
<Eghie> Hardy has a problems with the speed op JAVA
<Eghie> see also: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/277069
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 277069 in libxcb "Java slow on remote X" [Low,New]
<sbalneav> sshfs is, by it's nature, a little slow.
<sbalneav> We use sshfs as the primary method of getting home dirs simply because it's guarenteed to be secure.
<sbalneav> if you're less concerned about security, you could always bodge the localapps script, and mount using nfs, or the like.
<ogra> 8.04 didnt use sshfs anywhere
<Eghie> cool, I've got a webpage as "background" :)
<Eghie> now 1 step away to a webdesktop
#edubuntu 2008-11-22
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> so i'm curious, how much would one have to donate to get some "design" on some of the childrens educational games?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: To edubuntu?
<sbalneav> Edubuntu doesn't actually write any of the programs we distribute.
<sbalneav> We're simply a "distribution"
<sbalneav> We package up the work of the "upstream" developers
<Ahmuck> that i understand, but edubuntu is focused on educational programs and many of those programs need work
<sbalneav> Right, but it would be upstream to do the work, so your best bet, if you want to donate time, money, etc, would be to donate upstream to the programs you'd like worked on.
<sbalneav> Any examples in particular?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Any examples in particular?
<Ahmuck> not right away, but i could look over the game selection
<sbalneav> Have you filed any bugs on launchpad?
<Ahmuck> like "this game is crummy" ?
<Ahmuck> or "do the kids really learn anything here?"
<Ahmuck> i'm going to either pay to get some made via gpl or get some modified.
<sbalneav> Nice to call other people's volunteer hard work "crummy"
<Ahmuck> well, hrm ...
<Ahmuck> i wasn't trying to devalue the work, but comparing against commercial software
<sbalneav> Yeah, sure.
<Ahmuck> let's look at the landscape.  in the game section you have arcade games (normally space shooters), wow clones, and quake3 clones (FPS).  every now and then you will find a unique game
<Ahmuck> in the educational suite, a lot of the software is reapeat software, with low graphics.
<sbalneav> So how much is your budget to spend?
<Ahmuck> currently, 100.00/month tops
<Ahmuck> though i do know some artists
<Ahmuck> though at this point i'm still non-commital
<Ahmuck> our rural schools in the area might have 30 students max in each class.  k-12 might consist of 390 students
<Ahmuck> rural schools get "money for education" and have to spend it or loose it, up till recently
<Ahmuck> so, last year, 30 laptops that sat idle in the library
<sbalneav> Did I read that right?  One Hundred dollars?
<Ahmuck> yes
<Ahmuck> and yes, i know that is nothing
<Ahmuck> anyhow, if i were coming from a purely [principle or high school business instructor is the tech admin for the school] i've had mixed results
<Ahmuck> i'm thinking how to better explain it
<Ahmuck> we run a local lug and are doing linux conversions
<Ahmuck> i'm a firm believer in linux, and were doing some test projects to see how people in our area react
<Ahmuck> so were doing comparisions to have a better idea how to tailor for acceptance.  i've run into situations where people don't even want to hear about options to propietary software
<sbalneav> Well, maybe they aren't interested.
<sbalneav> Lots of people like windows, and don't want to change.
<sbalneav> Nothing wrong with that.  If they can afford it, and it works for them, great!
<Ahmuck> i agree.  however i'm running into people that won't even try scribus because everybody else is using package x.  and that indivdual couldn't even afford a cup of coffee
<Ahmuck> it's discouraging
<sbalneav> Do you program?
<Ahmuck> i wish.  i understand what is going on, but no, don't program
<Ahmuck> i do browse odesk and rentacoder
<sbalneav> Let me give you some sage advice...
<Ahmuck> if i could program there are quite a bit of software i would be writing
<sbalneav> Free And Open Source software is full of people with ideas...
<sbalneav> Full of people who have suggestions...
<sbalneav> full of people who talk in IRC channels...
<sbalneav> Full of people who want to change things.
<sbalneav> What is isn't full of: is coders :)
<sbalneav> For every one of someone like me, who actively writes upstream software...
<sbalneav> for inclusion in distro's like Edubuntu
<sbalneav> there's like, 400 people filing bugs, chatting about things, giving me, and people like me, suggestions.
<sbalneav> 100/month is going to get you nowhere.  Someone like me, who has a fulltime job, and who  does this purely for enjoyment...
<sbalneav> isn't going to be swayed by 100
<sbalneav> but...
<sbalneav> If you take the $1200 over the course of a year, take some programming courses at the local community college
<sbalneav> and start kicking in with some code, beleive me, you'll see change.
<sbalneav> That's why I got involved over 13 years ago.
<Ahmuck> is edubuntu's market industrial nations?
<sbalneav> I don't think edubuntu has a "market"
<sbalneav> Everyone who's involved with Edubuntu's a volunteer
<sbalneav> I'm with the LTSP project, the software that edubuntu uses for thin clients
<sbalneav> but I've gotten involved with edubuntu, because there's a lot of kids around the world, both in Developed and underdeveloped nations that don't have access to any software at all.
<sbalneav> By my donating my time, I can help them.
<sbalneav> So, that's my market, I guess: "anyone who needs it"
<sbalneav> Anywho, my eyes are going crosseyed from looking at docbook XML all night.  I'm off to bed.
<sbalneav> Goodnight.
<trailbrain> Anyone got any old computers to donate?
<trailbrain> Once I heard about edubuntu and started playing with it I created a program to get old computers running edubuntu into underprivledged homes
<trailbrain> The problem I'm having now is that the area I live in (SW OK) seems to be destitute of computers
<trailbrain> Very sad  :-(   http://reprise.trailbrain.com
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<highvoltage> "morning" LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: just pushing my American "Imperialism" on everybody ;-)
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> as long as you don't make us stop using the metric system :)
<LaserJock> nah, I'm a scientist so no fear there
<highvoltage> heh
<stgraber> highvoltage: there is worse than the imperial system, the Canadian one is mainly a mix of both :) So I just never know when to use imperial units (that I still don't know at all) or metric units (the ones I used all my life). So you can basically get both mentioned in the same sentence making everything just a lot harder to understand.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ouch!
#edubuntu 2008-11-23
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> is there a way to provide "quotas" for users?
<stgraber> Ahmuck: using the FS quota thing and the quota software should do it, haven't done that for a while but there should be some good doc on internet
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: stgraber's right for disk quotas.
<Ahmuck> would i use fs to set ACL to prevent traversing directories as well?
<Ahmuck> or is there a better tool?
 * Ahmuck nudges nubae
<sbalneav> Well, by traversing directories, do you mean prevent people from going into a directory?
<Ahmuck> breaking out of thier home directory using the file manager or command line
<sbalneav> It's pretty much impossible to prevent them from doing that, they'll need access to a lot of things on the system.
<sbalneav> Besides, there's not much they can do anyway, other than look.
<Ahmuck> that was always my assumption, but i was not sure
<sbalneav> They can't get into other people's home directories, that's what's important
<sbalneav> What directories were you looking to keep them out of?
<Ahmuck> all of them.  but i suppose if they snoop, it might not be a bad thing, as they would be learning
<Ahmuck> i've got 4G ram, and a 3600 amd athlon proc.  think this is going to work?
<Ahmuck> for 4 fat and three thins?
<sbalneav> Well, you can't ban them from /bin /usr/bin /usr/sbin /lib and /usr/lib, since the program's theyre running on the desltop are in there.
<Ahmuck> i decided not to get the brand new server.  i think were going to spend the money elsewhere on educational items.
<sbalneav> Well, the 3600's a little underpowered, but at least you've got a goodly amount of ram.
<sbalneav> So I'd say it should work not too badly.
<Ahmuck> ah, neat.  ubuntu manual partition has user quota as a filesystem option
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: if they were all fat clients?
<Ahmuck> so my ram might be overkill.  i might split the ram on another computer
<sbalneav> I've never used fat clients.  I'm only interested in thin clients.  But I'd expect that the more you offload tot he clients, the less you need on the server.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: evening
<sbalneav> Evening LaserJock!
<bubuntu> hello here
<bubuntu> anyone here?
<LaserJock> bubuntu: what do you need?
<bubuntu> oh hey, i'm new here...
<bubuntu> wondering what projects are being discussed here
<bubuntu> or what's going on...
<LaserJock> probably not a lot right now
<LaserJock> it's the weekend and many people are asleep
<LaserJock> bubuntu: in general we talk about Edubuntu and LTSP here
<Guest62178> Hello
<Guest62178> Is there anyone online today?
<John> hello?
<Guest21731> anyone there/
#edubuntu 2009-11-16
<highvoltage> this is quite funny: http://imagechan.com/img/7727/Multi%20Choice%20Test/
<dtrask>  Not much help on #ubuntu....asking here just in case anyone can help.  My issue:  Users and Groups has 3 users...student...teacher...and netbook (the admin user).  I launch...unlock and proceed to change the "student" password.  Everything appears to work....yet the student password never gets changed.  Any ideas on what to look for?
<dtrask> figured I'd ask
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Where's student getting it's password from?  Local box? Or ldap?
<dtrask> yes...manually # sudo passd student....works, but the "user and groups" thing does not
<dtrask> local
<dtrask> sbalneav: local
<dtrask> sbalneav: it's on the Open1to1 netbook
<dtrask> sbalneav: this is hopefully my last bug before rc
<sbalneav> ok, so, open up a term
<dtrask> k
<sbalneav> become root
<dtrask> sudo or su
<sbalneav> grep sudent /etc/shadow
<sbalneav> should have an encrypted password, yes?
<dtrask> yes
<dtrask> long line of mixed characters
<sbalneav> ok. so try changing the password
<sbalneav> don't close the term
<dtrask> Users and Groups goes through the motions, but when it comes time to test it by logging in as that user....the original password is not changed
<dtrask> OK
<dtrask> still open
<sbalneav> k, do the grep again
<dtrask> done
<dtrask> oh...should I have done something in the meantime?
<dtrask> ;-)
<sbalneav> is the encrypted password the same?
<dtrask> oh....I should have tried to change it....hang on
<dtrask> yes....exactly the same
<sbalneav> ok, so users-admin has a bug.
<alkisg> dtrask: just run users-admin from the terminal, it tells you about the lines in /etc/passwd that it doesn't like.
<sbalneav> either that, or you've mucked up the pam config.
<dtrask> sbalneav: I had sabayon installed and then had to remove it due to the small screen....the nested session was simply too hard to work with....could that have done something?
<sbalneav> I wouldn't think so.
<sbalneav> what happens if you log in as a student, then go to preferences -> about me, and change the password there.
<dtrask> I'm actually using kde password as the dialog for kids to change their passwords....and that works fine...the password sticks.
<dtrask> The person who reported the issue to me is an admin who has a student who forgot their password...he tried to reset it for them, but it won't work....using the users-admin gui "Users and Groups"
<dtrask> yes....the About me dialog also works
<sbalneav> ok, so it's a bug with Users and Groups.
<sbalneav> Which is hugely broken anyway.
<dtrask> Everything works except   gksudo users-admin  aka Users and Groups
<alkisg> Don't run it with gksudo
<sbalneav> maybe that's you problem
<alkisg> It uses policykit, just run it normally and click the unlock button
<sbalneav> how are you starting it, from the menu?
<sbalneav> or like what you're doing?
<alkisg> I've seen the "users-admin not working" problem a lot of times, and it was always something it didn't like in my /etc/passwd.
<alkisg> E.g. if you run "useradd" and provide a blank password, users-admin then doesn't work, exactly like you describe
<alkisg> (i.e. it looks like it's working, but it doesn't update the passwd file)
<alkisg> If you delete the user with the blank password, then it runs properly again
<dtrask> thinking of ordinary users (admins)....any suggestions for a good way for them to reset student passwords...other than "sudo passwd username"?
<dtrask> another gui?
<sbalneav> dtrask: how are you starting users admin?
<sbalneav> from the command line?
<sbalneav> or via the icon in system->administration?
<dtrask> no....actually from the icon....there is a button called "unlock" which I assume runs it as sudo or gksudo
<dtrask> but I have also tried it via the command line using gksudo users-admin
<sbalneav> So after you do the unlock, it still isnt working?
<sbalneav> from the menu?
<dtrask> correct
<dtrask> not working
<sbalneav> lets try it.
<dtrask> either way
<dtrask> try what
<sbalneav> changing it through the menu
<sbalneav> I'd like to see what log lines it spits out.
<sbalneav> in .xsession-errors
<dtrask> which log should I tail
<dtrask> k
<alkisg> sbalneav: it doesn't use a log file - it outputs the errors in stderr. It needs to be ran from a terminal to see the error output.
<sbalneav> stderr should GO to .xsession-erros
<sbalneav> in the users' home dir that's running the users-admin
<alkisg> Hmmm I don't remember if I've looked at .xsession-errors, but I didn't have anything related in /var/log. OK. :)
<dtrask> do you mean Xorg log?
<dtrask> there's no .xsession log
<sbalneav> in the users home dir
<sbalneav> who's doing the change
<sbalneav> there's a .xsession-errors file.
<dtrask> doh!
<dtrask> I wasn't where I was supposed to be
<dtrask> where is the pastebin?
<dtrask> how do I paste the output to you?
<sbalneav> usual ubuntu pastebin
<dtrask> never used it...or haven't in a long time....coach me?
<dtrask> is it paste.ubuntu.com?
<dtrask> I pasted it at paste.ubuntu.com
<dtrask> as dtrask
<dtrask> sbalneav: I don't see anything unusual, but maybe your trained eye will
<dtrask> http://paste.ubuntu.com/320085
<dtrask> sbalneav: http://paste.ubuntu.com/320085
<dtrask> sorry
 * dtrask suddenly remembers pastebot and pastebin and feels like a doofus
<sbalneav> yeah, I don't see anything unusual there myself.
<dtrask> look at bug #463353   this may be me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463353 in system-tools-backends "[users-admin] Modifying user has no effect" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463353
<dtrask> LOL
<dtrask> ubottu: how do I get the fix?
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<dtrask> LOLO
<sbalneav> looks like it's in karmic-proposed
<sbalneav> so enable that in software sources
<sbalneav> the danger to that is, there's other stuff it will probably affect
<sbalneav> so testing will be needed.
<sbalneav> -proposed is for bugfixes that haven't been officially put into production yet.
<jbicha> and if it works, leave a comment on the bug so hopefully they release it to the normal repositories sooner
<dtrask> patch downloaded...now to test
<dtrask> By George I think we've got it!
<dtrask> I will let them know it works and that they should push it out soon
<dtrask> this is a big fat hairy bug for schools and organizations of the like
<dtrask> many thanks to you guys!
<dtrask> sbalneav:
<dtrask> sbalneav: thx man....you were a huge help
<dtrask> sbalneav: at least got me pointed in the right direction
<dtrask> alkisg: thx for your help
<alkisg> dtrask: you're welcome, but you found the solution yourself... :)
<dtrask> I enable "proposed"....apt-get install system-tools-backends....and then disabled "proposed"   it's bug #463353  and it's kind of annoying in a school environment with 1 to 1 netbooks and a sysadmin trying to reset a kids password that they "forgot"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463353 in system-tools-backends "[users-admin] Modifying user has no effect" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463353
<sbalneav> Man, I remember when all this hullabaloo about cups going to "pdf only" printing.
<sbalneav> for ubuntu
<sbalneav> it's utterly and completely fail.
<dtrask> I remember that too....it wouldn't create the PDF directory...had to do it manually
<dtrask> etc
<dtrask> that was the bug in the last image I did
<sbalneav> the *pdf filters do not honour ANY postscript printer directives
<dtrask> seems to be one in every image....one "hard" one....most are easy
<dtrask> oh that one
<dtrask> yeah
<sbalneav> So, so long as you want to print out to plain paper ONLY
<sbalneav> you're fine.
<sbalneav> Want an envelope?
<dtrask> foget it
<sbalneav> Letterhead?
<dtrask> right?
<dtrask> LOL
<sbalneav> Multi-bin
<sbalneav> You know, things you need in a business?
<sbalneav> in the real world.
<dtrask> yep
<dtrask> has it been addressed?
<sbalneav> You know, that mystical place where Rocket Man plans to make money from?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> I'm fixing it.
<sbalneav> again.
<dtrask> ahh
<dtrask> attaboy
<dtrask> :-)
<dtrask> why we love you
<dtrask> :-)
<LaserJock> highvolt1ge: around?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> highvoltage: can we do something about http://edubuntu.org/help ?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it either needs to get updated or made in such a way that it's not dependent on individual people
<highvoltage> LaserJock: for now I'll just remove all the people, someone should just contact edubuntu-devel for now
<LaserJock> edubuntu-users or edubuntu-devel
<sbalneav> I notice nixternal's got his name up there?
<nixternal> ya, they asked me...I tried to say "hey, I haven't done much in a while" but that didn't fly with them
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> good for you
<LaserJock> hmmm, I wonder if I ......
<highvoltage> yes... !?
<highvoltage> :p
<highvoltage> LaserJock: we accept your nomination
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> no, no
<highvoltage> Edubuntu: Takes no prisoners
<LaserJock> I'm having a hard enough time as it is butting out of everything
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ouch, sounds ugly
<LaserJock> everybody is doing a great job of replacing me
<LaserJock> (not that it was hard)
<LaserJock> but work is getting more demanding
<LaserJock> and I've got lots of other things demanding my attention as well
<sbalneav> Oh, the rockstar life you lead!
<sbalneav> Shooting molecules with lasers
<sbalneav> developing programs
<highvoltage> with ill-tempered sharks
<sbalneav> graphing graphs
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you left out the white coats
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I've never really worn a lab coat
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm too much of a physicist
<LaserJock> we're more into pocket protectors and slide rules
<highvoltage> :)
<sbalneav> "If LTSP is to be viable" heh
<sbalneav> That's the beauty of LTSP
<sbalneav> I've never MADE a dime off of it
<IulianISI> HI
<sbalneav> I'm not MAKING any money off of it
<IulianISI> I have a laptop DELL Inspiron 6400 with a ATI X1400 video card.
<IulianISI> I've tried different approaches described on several forums but nothing is working properly. Now i have installed on my laptop the Radeon driver and i have some graphical acceleration but is working slow and the resolution is stucked at 1024x768.
<IulianISI> I booted from the CD loads and everything worked fine and the ATI graphics acceleration worked really well.
<IulianISI> How can i make it work like that on my installed version?
<sbalneav> and I expect NEVER to make any money off of it :)
<sbalneav> So I'll always be viable :)
<sbalneav> IulianISI: Hmm, I think you have to go into the "restricted driver" manager and enable the propriatary drivers.
<sbalneav> Since most ATI cards seem to want the commercial driver.
<sbalneav> yeah, Systems -> Administration -> Hardware Drivers
<IulianISI> it dose not work
<sbalneav> Define "Does not work"?
<sbalneav> Does it give you an error?
<IulianISI> with propriatary drivers the acceleration is off
<sbalneav> Ok, have you tried to turn it on?
<IulianISI> how?
<sbalneav> Well, I think there's a checkbox beside it, or something.  I don't know for sure, as I don't have any propriataty drivers on my machine.
<sbalneav> have you tried double-clicking on the driver line?
<sbalneav> Which version of Edubuntu are you running>
<sbalneav> ?
<IulianISI> 9.10
<IulianISI> ubuntu 9.10
<sbalneav> So you're not running Edubuntu?
<IulianISI> no
<sbalneav> Well, #ubuntu might know better, but I'm pretty sure you enable the drivers in that application.
<sbalneav> There's an "enable" button down at the bottom
<sbalneav> did you highlight the driver and hit the "enable" button?
<sbalneav> It's at the bottom right, above "Close"
<sbalneav> IulianISI: You still with me there?
<IulianISI> it doesn't appear in hardware drivers
<sbalneav> Well, you said above:
<sbalneav> with propriatary drivers the acceleration is off
<sbalneav> so, IS there a driver listed there? Or not?
<IulianISI> no
<sbalneav> So it's completely blank?
<sbalneav> No drivers listed at all in the "hardware drivers" application?
<IulianISI> i think i've tried all of them
<sbalneav> I'm confused
<IulianISI> just the drivers for the wireless card
<sbalneav> "I've tried all of them" means there ARE some there.
<sbalneav> so there's drivers listed there for wireless, but not video, is that what you're saying?
<IulianISI> i have tried : propriataty drivers, Radeon drivers
<IulianISI> yes
<IulianISI> ATi drivers
<IulianISI> I mean a tried ATI drivers from ATI site
<IulianISI> they cannot be installed on 9.10
<sbalneav> Here's what I want you to answer for me: "Are there any video drivers listed in the 'Hardware Drivers' application?"
<IulianISI> no
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> But you say when you boot the laptop from the CD, then there ARE drivers, yes?
<IulianISI> to have some acceleration i uninstalled and then installed again the Xorg
<IulianISI> no,there are no drivers but it works ok
<IulianISI> if i do lspci -k on cd and on install ver is something like:
<IulianISI> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility X1400
<IulianISI> 	Kernel modules: radeon
<sbalneav> ok, so it's detecting a radeon driver.
<IulianISI> yes
<sbalneav> you could try doing a sudo dpkg-reconfige xserver-xorg
<sbalneav> sorry
<sbalneav> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<IulianISI> doesn't work
<IulianISI> i do not have a Xorg.con file
<sbalneav> Shouldn't matter
<sbalneav> try doing both xserver-xorg
<sbalneav> and xserver-xorg-core
<sbalneav> Apart from that, I don't know.  I gave up on ATI cards years ago as unusable.
<sbalneav> There's just me here, and probably a lot more in just plain #ubuntu
<IulianISI> tx verry much
<sbalneav> NP, good luck
#edubuntu 2009-11-17
<nubae> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> nubae: pong
<nubae> heya... do u think it makes sense for me to apply to the council
<nubae> or not yet really?
<highvoltage> nubae: good question
<highvoltage> nubae: I guess it depends where your heart lies, we've actually decided to make the term of the council only a year this time instead of two
<highvoltage> so if you're not sure you could get apply next year too if you want, or now... it's up to you
<nubae> do I guestt my question then is, what would you do in my position?
<highvoltage> nubae: If you have the time and you want to do it, then why not.
<nubae> do I guestt my question then is, what would you do in my position?i I''ll apply. mena, I doa ctually use 2 operating systnes, though -I'd say its about 80% ed/ubuntu  20% opensuse-edu at this point
<nubae> motly bnecause I know edubuntu npw needs the lep
<nubae> nad fromUInperspecitve its more familiar, and there si just a something,....
<nubae> I dont know what... but a something that makes me just wanna use it more
<nubae> its weird, because its not technical or political or whatever
<nubae> maybe cause I've used it the longest and I feel llike part of  Â¡a true team of people
<nubae> had way more oncversations, been way way more involved in even the littlees of things....
<highvolt1ge> nubae: sorry I got a bit distracted
<jbicha1> wow, the opensuse edu distro released today is amazing http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/11/17/opensuse-edu-li-f-e-creating-open-minds/
<jbicha1> 1 of its features: it has the VirtualBox guest additions pre-installed so it just works in VirtualBox
<jbicha1> it has a ridiculous amount of software (desktop & server) pre-installed
<alkisg> *and* it has live ltsp... ;) What it doesn't have is debian policy, and giving back to upstream, so that other distros can get what they have... :-/
<jbicha1> oh, that's too bad
<jbicha1> sbalneav: do you think Edubuntu is not really sustainable?
<jbicha1> with current manpower
<nubae> yeah, opensuse-edu has a lot we can learn from
<nubae> having been involved in its creation, I can tell you that one of the biggest strengths it has, but which is also a weakness, is the abilitiy to add software and implmenentatons without going through a rigiid protocol of inspection
<nubae> I'd like to, if posssible, at least for the next vesrsion of edubuntu had a Sugar launch button like opensuse-edu has.... though ut requires packaging quite a number of sugar activities
<nubae> not necesessarily a bad thing since that's where we can outdo opensuse-edu a bit, byt oytting newer, better and more tested sugar activities in there
<nubae> what do u you guys think?
<sbalneav> Well, that's what I've been tossing around this morning.
<sbalneav> I'm certainly committed to Edubuntu for the next year.  But I'm beginning to wonder if, seeing as how stability is my bugbear, to make the leap to debian-edu, since we use most of their stuff, and fix the bugs THERE.
<sbalneav> I dunno.
<sbalneav> I'm of multiple minds.
<sbalneav> The problem with *buntu, in general, imho, is we have a rigid protocol for ascending the ladder of "being able to do useful work"
<sbalneav> but once you reach the top, or NEAR the top of the ladder, there's NO rigid system for ensuring quality.
<sbalneav> gnome-user-manager went out the door without being able to *change a users password*.
<sbalneav> How does that happen?
<sbalneav> I'm not blaminganybody, we're all incredibly busy.
<sbalneav> meeting 6 month release schedules.
<sbalneav> but at some point something's gotta give.
<highvolt1ge> sbalneav: I'm also interested in gedding involved with debian-edu
<highvolt1ge> (well I've been for a long time)
<sbalneav> Here's my thoughts:
<sbalneav> Every  Edubuntu developer should become a debian-edu developer.
<sbalneav> If we run into bugs in debian-edu apps, we *fix them upstream*, at the debian edu source.
<sbalneav> for things that tickle nubae's fancy, like saccharine... err sugar (sorry, trying to lose weight) we work on getting them as options in debian-edu
<highvolt1ge> althouh, in technical ubuntu terms upstream would mean gcompris, tux4kids, etc, but I understand what you mean in terms of fixing things in debian
<sbalneav> Then, at the end of the day, we can just pull the debian-edu stuff in, and it all "just works"
<sbalneav> BUT, und here iz ze big but...
<sbalneav> 1) The debian edu devel pool is larger.  By working with them actively, we a) increase our own developer pool, and b) foster goodwill by helping them directly.
<sbalneav> 2) we're still doing the same amount of WORK, we're just doing it at a different level.
<sbalneav> I dunno, it's just an idea.
<sbalneav> I'm just tossing out ideas as to how we can make this all more sustainable.
<highvoltage> getting fixes in to debian is important in ubuntu so it makes sense
<sbalneav> Lets get the elections over with, and keep our noses to the grindstone for Lucid
<sbalneav> concentrate on getting buggies fixed.
<sbalneav> but I think after lucid, we should start thinking about this sort of thing.
<highvoltage> why wait?
<sbalneav> Well, I'm starting the process in debian-edu now.
<sbalneav> h0ger's given me some pointers, and I've got an account on alioth
<sbalneav> Hop on in :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: what's the best way to get started?
<sbalneav> Dunno.  Hold my hand, we'll do it together.
<sbalneav> That came out... not quite the way I wanted.
<sbalneav> You know what I mean :)
 * Lns agrees w/ sbalneav 
 * alkisg thinks it's kinda sissy, though... :P :D
<alkisg> (the holding hands bit)
<alkisg> (or maybe I'm just jealous for not having anyone to walk me through :D)
<Lns> lol
<Lns> this might be a crazy idea - but why not 'merge' operations of edubuntu and debian-edu? I mean, I don't know much about deb-edu... are they a separate dist? a metapackage? how do they work?
 * Lns looks online
<highvoltage> Lns: they are a debian pure blend
<highvoltage> (well skolelinux at least)
<highvoltage> which means that all their packages are in debian
<sbalneav> well skolelinux IS debian-edu, and vice-versa.
<sbalneav> here's the issue, as I see it.
<sbalneav> skole uses kde, and kde-edu, plus some gnome apps
<sbalneav> edubuntu uses gnome, kde-edu and some gnome apps.
<HedgeMage> debian-edu started out as a package maintenance and advocacy/workinggroup, and eventually got to be a debian distro.... it kind of exploded in late 2000 when debian politics exploded and odile benassy and I left.
<HedgeMage> I have no idea what they've done since.
<sbalneav> Oooh!
<sbalneav> excellent, glad you're here, HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> np
<sbalneav> So, to me, they're "edu with a kde desktop"
<sbalneav> we're "edu with a gnome desktop"
<HedgeMage> somewhat
<HedgeMage> this is why I started frogandowl
<sbalneav> but we've got similar packages, and similar goals.
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: right.
<HedgeMage> the edu stuff keeps getting chopped up along distro/wm lines
<HedgeMage> And, once you marry to a distro, you are stuck with that distro's politics.
<sbalneav> Correct.
<HedgeMage> For example, in late 2000, the debian edu team exploded and died because people from debian main came over and started making demands that we change our documentation.
<HedgeMage> They were offended that our ordering of packages and our package recommendations did not fit their political biases.
<sbalneav> You and Odile left.  Who stayed, and did D-E "conform" in the end?
<HedgeMage> Odile and I were the most active contributors at the end (many left before us).  A few newbies stayed, but they let Debian beat up on them.  In the end, I believe they compromised, making a rule that package listings would be alphabetical, and the project would not recommend specific packages in its docs any more.
<HedgeMage> Which is sad, because most edu people come in not knowing Linux or what tools to use.
<HedgeMage> Now, keep in mind that this was all nine years ago.  I haven't really kept tabs since.
<sbalneav> You've been around with Edubuntu since the early days.  How would you feel about tighter ties to d-e?
<HedgeMage> I think it'll end in distro wars and bad politics if debian main is still interfering as they used to in debian-edu's work.
<HedgeMage> We are already hurting for contributors in edubuntu...I don't want to lose more to stupid politics.
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> Yeah, I wasn't aware of all this.
<Lns> Interesting
<HedgeMage> It was a royal mess :(
<sbalneav> I'm just trying to figure out how we can widen the pool.
 * HedgeMage nods
<Lns> I can't help but think of drastic change proposals to multiple edu-based projects in Linux/OSS, to become something bigger. I know most would disagree..but we *are* OSS in the end. If we had one massive edu-based project, or at least the support of most/all other OSS-edu projects, we could seriously be a force to be reckoned with
<Lns> And we'd have our *own* politics. We could manage that apart from dists
<Lns> and create rpm/deb/tgz/whatever ourselves
<HedgeMage> Lns: I totally agree with you... let me tell you about something I am working on called Frog & Owl :)
 * Lns listens
<HedgeMage> Lns: I've been at this for a long time (I started using Linux in 1994, I started working with debian-edu in 1998), and I see that the whole OSS-edu movement is fragmented into insular parts -- mostly along distro and wm preference lines, but to a lesser degree along language/nationality...
<HedgeMage> Lns: ...it's frustrating because of the duplication of effort, the bickering, and how much more we could be doing with more unified efforts.
<HedgeMage> Lns: So, not long ago, I started a project called Frog and Owl -- we are still in the planning stages now, but we hope to be a central hub for open content (texts, lesson plans, etc) and open source edu solutions.
<sbalneav> Some of us are members :)
<HedgeMage> Lns: We want to track what's going on in those separate project and provide a unified portal...
<Lns> HedgeMage: define portal pls
<HedgeMage> Lns: both a place to find out about what's already out there, and a source of the development community and solutions that can then be ported to any distro... we basically want to be distro-neutral, do proof-of-concept stuff, and so on...eventually when we get to the point of funding stuff we have some ideas of software to put together, but that will take time, and who knows if the software needs will have changed by then
<Lns> So a communications portal basically?
<HedgeMage> Yep, for now.
<HedgeMage> We can worry about our own development once we get that done
<HedgeMage> Lns: so far, we have ubuntu and funtoo edu projects represented.  We are working on having a little more to show for ourselves then reaching out to others.
<Lns> Well it sounds like a great project, I'm in
<Lns> for whatever I can do anyway
<HedgeMage> :)
<Lns> Is there a website at all?
<Lns> list, etc?
<HedgeMage> join #frogandowl if you would ;)
<HedgeMage> frogandowl.org
<Lns> nice =)
<HedgeMage> it's not got much yet... I'm getting ready to move, so I'm working in small dribs and drabs as time allows.
<Lns> See, I think that's a great effort for edu. We can't be tied to distros, especially since everyone has their own preference. Our main focus needs to be education.
<HedgeMage> exactly
<Lns> We can be the glue for oss+edu
<HedgeMage> yep!
<sbalneav> I just want to help kids.
<sbalneav> That's all I want to do.
<HedgeMage> exactly
<sbalneav> And I'm willing to do whatever I can, and/or have to, to do that.
<Lns> =)
<HedgeMage> :)
<Lns> I feel the same. Once I set up my first ltsp network at a school, I was hooked. I want to make it as easy as possible for children to use technology. OSS+LTSP+Linux in general just seems to be the right thing to do. I'm going to try to deploy/manage as many of these as possible with my company.
 * HedgeMage nods
#edubuntu 2009-11-18
<giancast> Good night
<giancast> There is anyone here can help me
<lonchiton> can i force a thin-client to log into at the same computer?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<cprofitt> hey nixternal
<jbicha> sbalneav & others, sorry I didn't stay around for the chat yesterday, the time zones are a bummer some times
<jbicha> but thank goodness there are chat logs :-)
<jbicha> I mean I like to read chatlogs, I don't know what other people think
<sbalneav> jbicha: Morning
<jbicha> sbalneav: you live in Manitoba?
<jbicha> Google says we're only supposed to have a high of 25C tomorrow, time to get out my jacket I think :-)
<sbalneav> jbicha: Yep.  Winnipeg, to be exact
<jbicha> sbalneav: I've been to 8 provinces, only skipped Manitoba & Newfoundland
<jbicha> my parents live in Alberta now actually
<sbalneav> Wild Rose Country :)
<jbicha> I saw freshly mowed grass today and the disturbing part wasn't that it was November but that there's so little grass and green stuff here in the desert
<jbicha> anyway, interesting conversation yesterday
<jbicha> contributing to debian is quite a bit more challenging than contributing to ubuntu I think
<sbalneav> Well, the issue, as I see it, as I've always seen it, is one of resources.
<sbalneav> Education isn't "sexy"
<jbicha> how can you do the most good? to help the most people?
<sbalneav> Hackers want to work on blingy new chat clients, and stuff like that.  Flashcard programs for 4th graders isn't high on anyone's priority list.
<jbicha> well, Canonical obviously can't figure out to how to make a profit off of it & so it's not really too big of a priority this year
<sbalneav> So, if the goal is "to help the kids"...
<Ahmuck> isn't it possible to re-build a system without any further downloads?
<Ahmuck> ie, via debs stored on machine?
<sbalneav> We can either muddle away in our little camp, debian-edu can muddle away in their little camp, etc.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: if you want a flashcard program, use anki
<sbalneav> or, those of us who ARE interested can start forming up into a bigger "meta-pool"
<Ahmuck> i've been repeating that over and over.  someone needs to package anki for ubunut
<sbalneav> Like Hedgemage is suggesting with her fron&owl.
<Ahmuck> well, ok, i've been repeating that as well
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: That was just a representive example.
<Ahmuck> and caught a lot of flak from it
<sbalneav> From who?
<Ahmuck> those that are interested in promoting edubuntu needs to break away and do it
<Ahmuck> soooo, are we at that point now?
<Ahmuck> a self organizing group?
 * Ahmuck hears a pin drop
<jbicha> Ahmuck: what about http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/anki ?
<jbicha> isn't it already in the repos?
<Ahmuck> kewl
<Ahmuck> was it in jaunty?
<Ahmuck> i know i suggested packaging it for karamic but did not realize it happened
<jbicha> it appears to be there from Intrepid on
<Ahmuck> i'd package it if i had a clue how.  currently i build from source and then use checkinstall to create a deb
<sbalneav> See, and this is the problem
<Ahmuck> sooo, it's not included in the edubuntu release because?
<sbalneav> Because you can't package
<jbicha> we don't know what to put in the edubuntu release
<sbalneav> because you're not doing the work to get it in there.
<sbalneav> this is what I've been saying for some time.
<sbalneav> WE NEED MORE *SSES AND MORE ELBOWS DOING MORE CODING.
<jbicha> the new opensuse-edu is nice but do schools really need everything & the kitchen sink in their default install
<Ahmuck> i'm not doing the work to get it there because i've not had anyone interested in ansering the multitude of questions that i would need to ask to learn ubuntu packaging
<sbalneav> I'm saying the "you're not doing it" thing in jest, but that's our basic problem: too few people doing actual real work.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: u have a chicken/egg problem.  however, to birth new coders you first need a chicken willing to lay the egg
<jbicha> but there is a bunch of education software out there that people don't know about
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: r u willing to mentor me for ubuntu packaging?
<jbicha> I agree that packaging & coding has a pretty high threshold
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I'm learning MYSELF at this point.  Since I'm mainly an "upstream guy", but yeah, I'm more than happy to pass things along as I learn
<jbicha> I wonder if there's some way we could teach the kids to do it :-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock's been teaching me some stuff, and I've been reading through the packaging guide.
<sbalneav> But my goal is to become motu by Lucid's release..
<jbicha> I've had a hard time finding interesting software that's not in the repos that is packagable, there is some interesting stuff that has potential debian licensing issues
<sbalneav> If anyone wants to sign up for the march with me, fall in, soldier.
<jbicha> and there's also some java apps but that looks like too much to chew for a first-timer
<sbalneav> Packaging new stuff, IMHO isn't as much as an issue, as getting the bugs knocked out of the stuff we already have.
<jbicha> ah, thanks for clarifying
<sbalneav> Screem needs love. gpaint's got problems, etc.
<sbalneav> Obviously, anyone who learns packaging can work on anything they want, but MY goal for lucid is actually spending most of this cycle testing the cr*p out of things, and gettiung the bugs fixed.
<sbalneav> It wasn't my package to look after, but gnome-users-admin shipped in karmic with a bug that doesn't allow an administrator to change someone's password.
<sbalneav> I mean, geez.
<sbalneav> That's how I see it.  Now I'm just one guy, and nobody important, but I really want to see this LTS be something *stable* for the teachers/kids.
<sbalneav> so at least, when they boot it up out-of-the-box, what's THERE will work for them.
<sbalneav> We can always add new bling with the edubuntu-dev ppa's that we posted about.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: but yeah, I'll mentor you, and anyone else that wants it.
<sbalneav> I can code in C, Python, Shell, I understand the autoconf system, etc.
<sbalneav> all I need to learn is the packaging rules, and I'm golden.
<jbicha> I see Open Source Education to have two main roles: provide quality educational software that gets better over time without being unaffordable to schools
<Ahmuck> imho, you need a user on the EC
<jbicha> ...and #2 preparing kids to be open source developers themselves, most colleges & universities sure aren't doing much that way
<sbalneav> jbicha: well, that's 'cuz M$ gets in there, and gives them all complete labs worth of .Net tools.
<Ahmuck> yes
<jbicha> I think Java is #1 in the colleges.... & while that's kinda cross-platform, it doesn't fit well in Linux these days
<Ahmuck> i'd love to be on the EC, however i tend to be a bit abrasive about what i think needs to be done from a (L)user's perspective
<Ahmuck> and i'm not a programmer
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I was just about to say, why not run?
<Ahmuck> but to have a QC team, you need someone that is a primarly a user, who asks stupid questions
<Ahmuck> in addition, i think the EC needs to select a core of apps that are good, and user tested (ie children tested) and "sponser" those apps
<Ahmuck> then it puts the pressure on the app designer/programer to fix up thier own app to get it into the coveted edubuntu set
<sbalneav> So once again, I ask, are you going to put your name down to run?
<Ahmuck> yes
<sbalneav> I mean, personally, I'll take my name OFF, to let other people get elected.  I'm here ANYWAY, and I just put my name down because for a while it looked like NO-ONE was going to sign up.
<alkisg> Is there a limit to the number of members? How many are we looking for? 5?
<sbalneav> I don't know if 5 is mandated or not.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ping
<alkisg> Me, and also nubae, can be left off if there's a limit...
<alkisg> I'm going to start my phd anyway, so I'll have my hands full for the next 3 years
<sbalneav> I'll gladly withdraw, to give others a better chance.
<Ahmuck> i think people need to be activly involved in edubuntu/ltsp EC
<jbicha> but back to the previous conversation, contributing to debian is scary, I mean almost all packages are owned by someone and I feel it's difficult to
<jbicha> come in and try to work on their stuff
<alkisg> I think edubuntu needs coders more than anything else...
<Ahmuck> anywho, somethings come up that i need to attend to
<Ahmuck> i think you would get more coders through sponsership/mentors
<Ahmuck> but that might take three releases to get there
<Ahmuck> it's long term planning
<Ahmuck> rather than fire hose planning
<alkisg> I don't think we have anyone for sponsoring
<sbalneav> Well, we use a lot of debian's packages.  I'm all for having better integration between us and Debian, so long as we don't get pulled into a political morass like HedgeMage alluded to.
<alkisg> !sbalneav++ :)
<sbalneav> I'm just throwing out ideas.
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sbalneav++ :)
<sbalneav> I got no karma, except what I build up in real life :)
<alkisg> No that was an "I agree" statement :)
<Ahmuck> HedgeMage alluded to?
<sbalneav> HedgeMage used to be involved with debian-edu, political battles in 2000, blah, blah, she left, came to us.
<Ahmuck> i don't think working on someone else's stuff is scary.  if you can't get your contribution in, you create a ppa and or mirror and branch.  if your code is accepted by the community and it's truly oss, then the original author will intergrate or compensate ...
<Ahmuck> bbl
<jbicha> Ahmuck: well, neither you nor I have done it yet
<highvoltage> sbalneav: pong
<sbalneav> highvoltage: hey, is the council LIMITED to 5 people?
<sbalneav> or can there be more?
<Ahmuck> jbicha: not entirely true.  i'm currently in planning stages of branching out a project where to much bickering is happening and not enough action
<Ahmuck> because i can't code, i'm going to sponser some coding and then start a re-write of the project
<jbicha> Ahmuck: sorry, my last comment was prob a bit rude, I thought you said you hadn't done packaging yet
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I don't think there's any hard limit
<sbalneav> highvoltage: So, there's the potential that, so long as anyone who puts his/her name forward for the council, could just get it by "acclimation"
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yes, although we're only electing 5 members in this election
<jbicha> haha, so there is a hard limit :-)
<highvoltage> jbicha: well it could be increased after the elections again, or even during the election
<highvoltage> jbicha: but the election is currently for 5
 * mhall119|work is applying for Ubuntu Membership in ~ 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<sbalneav> Good luck!
<mhall119|work> thanks
#edubuntu 2009-11-19
<cprofitt> hey pleia2
<sbalneav> Evening all
<cprofitt> hello sbalneav
<ball> hello jsgotangco
<khabi> hi
<alkisg> ÎÎ¹
<alkisg> Hi
<khabi> I need advice on Edubuntu
<khabi> Edubuntu or Xp pro with educational software for a primary school computer room
<khabi> Not sure whether it will worth the learning curve for myself and the teacher
<khabi> hi
<khabi> hi is any1 here
<khabi> hellooo
<highvoltage> hi khabi
<mhall119|work> hi khabi
<khabi> highvoltage
<khabi> hi all
<khabi> i need to set up a computer room and i looking at edubuntu
<khabi> it is for a primary school.
<mhall119|work> khabi: awesome
<khabi> i need some advice
<mhall119|work> ask away
<khabi> why should go for edubuntu as apposed to a windows enviroment with educational software
<mhall119|work> aside from price?
<mhall119|work> you don't have to worry about licensing
<mhall119|work> you don't have to worry about anti-virus software
<mhall119|work> you don't have to worry about the kids breaking the system (don't give sudo access)
<mhall119|work> you get free education games, and there are a _lot_ of them
<mhall119|work> you get free upgrades, to the OS and the games, for life
<mhall119|work> the upgrades aren't going to require throwing out your current computers and buying new ones
<mhall119|work> now, from a more technical side:
<mhall119|work> The kids learn a different platform, variety of experience is important to learning
<mhall119|work> maybe not as important to primary school kids, but Linux knowledge was the #1 most desired technical skill in a recent study
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mhall119|work> from an admin point of view:
<mhall119|work> you have full control over the computers
<mhall119|work> if you don't like an app, remove it
<mhall119|work> you can customize the interface, Sabayon lets you create multiple configuration profiles
<mhall119|work> if you use LTSP, you can roll out a lab based on thin clients for much cheaper
<mhall119|work> have I missed anything?
<mhall119|work> Oh yeah, it's free
<khabi> thanks
<khabi> i have looked at some of the benefits you mentioned. I am also looking
<khabi> at suggesting curriculum based on the software i install
<khabi> Being free is a benefit but it comes at a price
<khabi> Do you know of any South African Schools using the software
<sbalneav> Many are using Linux.  I beleive the Shuttleworth Foundation has Linux desktops in many schoold
<khabi> Are they really happy ? Getting support is a problem itself
<khabi> mhall119
<khabi> Are you there ?
<alkisg> Support is many, many times better in Linux than in Windows
<alkisg> In Windows I never got a bug that I reported fixed
<alkisg> In Linux, I got a lot of them fixed, by either me or others...
<alkisg> The same goes for feature requests - never on Windows, many times on Linux.
<alkisg> And my students are much happier with Linux than when we had Windows
<khabi> so you have implemented at a school
<alkisg> 3 schools so far (by myself), and lots of others that followed an installation manual I wrote, yes
<khabi> you have an installation manual ? Where can I find it?
<alkisg> Sorry, it's in Greek, and it's specific to how we want to setup things here in Greece (that's why I didn't write it in English at the first place...)
<alkisg> But there are lot of instructions out there
<khabi> Should I go for ubuntu and install all the educational packages or edubuntu
<alkisg> Whatever you like
<alkisg> No big difference there...
<khabi> Are you a teacher or the administrator?
<alkisg> In Greece most computer teachers are also the administrators
<alkisg> The schools are small, so they don't have extra staff for administration
<khabi> I understand. Its good that I am speaking to the teacher because you
<khabi> have first hand experience interaction with kids
<khabi> I wanted your point of view. What age students do you teach?
<alkisg> In the last 2 years with Linux, I was at schools with 12-15 y.o. kids
<alkisg> This year I'm at 15-18 y.o kids
<khabi> Thats great ! Tell me I am I disturbing you by asking so many questions ?
<alkisg> No no problem it just may take a little time to answer sometimes cause I'm also doing other stuff...
<khabi> Thank You ! What software do you use with 12-15 yrs
<alkisg> I've ported 15 Gb of windows-based Greek educational apps that the ministry had, and I made a repository of them: http://ts.sch.gr/repo/
<alkisg> So now all the schools can install them by just doing "sudo apt-get install gymnasio"...
<alkisg> That repo had 1 Tb of traffic last month, so it goes pretty well.
<alkisg> Other than that, we mostly use openoffice, firefox, kturtle etc, not a lot of kde-edu or other apps...
<khabi> Interesting. Do the kids have internet access ?
<khabi> Can I use software you have ported ?
<alkisg> Yeah, the kids have internet access (we use squid for caching & access control),
<mhall119|work> sorry khabi, had to step out for a minute
<alkisg> and while you could use the software, it's in Greek.. :-/
<alkisg> It's software specifically written for Greek textbooks...
<khabi> ok thanks. you know the saying, "thats greek to me"
<khabi> :-)
<mhall119|work> there are others that are multi-lingual
<khabi> I had no luck in getting squid to work.The learning curve to get up running
<mhall119|work> gCompris has the ability to create lesson plans I think
<mhall119|work> khabi: there are simpler proxies you can use for content filterin
<mhall119|work> squid is good if you have a centralized server though
<alkisg> getting squid to work is pretty easy (for basic stuff)
<alkisg> You can also add 2 lines and make it cache updates,
<alkisg> and you can force all the clients to go through it through gconf mandatory settings
<khabi> do you use webmin for the reporting
<mhall119|work> or iptables
<khabi> i would like to have a try at setting up squid again
<khabi> Where in greece are you from ?
<alkisg> Ioannina
<khabi> How do you centrally manage all the user accounts
<alkisg> In LTSP, it's all in 1 PC so it's easy
<alkisg> In standalone Ubuntu installations, I don't. I tell each team of students to sit on the same PC each time
<alkisg> So I have the same accounts per class (e.g. 12 PCs = 12 accounts "classA")
<alkisg> and I only tell the students to change the "real name", so I can see them with iTalc, and on the top gnome panel
<alkisg> This way I can continue to work even when the local network or server is down
<alkisg> ...and the students do have their own stuff, files, wallpaper etc that noone else can see
<jbicha> today was magical: I actually saw tiny drops of rain fall from the sky
<khabi> alkisq you stay in such an interesting place
<alkisg> khabi: where do you live?
<khabi> South Africa, Durban
<alkisg> heh, sounds exotic to me :)
<khabi> You will surprized how exotic it is ! you will here alot about Durban next  year
<khabi> World cup is going to in South Africa
<highvoltage> khabi: yes and in south africa we'll be tired of hearing about soccer
<khabi> highvoltage
<khabi> where in sa are u from
<highvoltage> khabi: cape town
<cprofitt> hey pleia2
<pleia2> cprofitt: hey
<cprofitt> still at UDS?
<alkisg> I'm making an ubuntu remix with live ltsp on it, what's the correct phrase? "Ubuntu Greek Education Remix" or "Ubuntu Greek Educational Remix"?
<Lns> Has anyone run into mime type issues in 8.04 where a .desktop file (type=link, to open a website in a browser) gets opened in gedit and not firefox/epiphany/etc?
<Lns> nm, found that it didn't work because i had hacked my firefox.desktop ;)
#edubuntu 2009-11-20
<tsunami> this room was the top hit for education - that being how i found you this might be offtopic.  does anyone have recommendations for technology/mba programs part time in the states?
<HedgeMage> tsunami: A lot depends on where you live... they vary greatly by location.
<tsunami> luckily MA
<tsunami> north eastern seems like the top pick... but the money isn't worth it
<tsunami> there is bently
<tsunami> i should learn to spel if i am to take on some cawledge
<tsunami> Bentley*
<tsunami> graduate programs*
<tsunami> if anyone else is scouring the internet
<tsunami> bentley actually has a nice mba with it concentration
<tsunami> anyway
<tsunami> gnight
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Lns> where is the meeting schedule?
<Lns> is the fridge the only place or do we have a list of meetings on the wiki...?
<Lns> baha, nevermind, found it =)
<Lns> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda has a couple empty page links, and the "next scheduled meeting" is in the past ;)
<HedgeMage> Lns: hi there
<Lns> hey HedgeMage
<highvoltage> Lns: yeah we just talked about that at the UDS session
<Ahmuck> hi hi
<highvoltage> oops, sorry for duplicate mail, I'm clearly not that used to gmail :)
#edubuntu 2009-11-21
<alkisg> highvoltage: 2 thoughts for the LucidPlanning page: Menu Improvements ==> it'd be nice if we had a team of "edubuntu customizers", and each of them provided an ubuiquity script. This way the user would be able to select that he wants to install e.g. the "Greek primary" edubuntu customization, and that would get him a different set of apps/menus than the "Royal academy of Blahblah" edubuntu customization...
<alkisg> I.e. make it easy for countries / schools etc to select their own set of apps/menus.
<alkisg> And about the usb installation, the new syslinux version supports creating hybrid images, which can function both as live cds and live usb sticks.
<nubae> hi mhall119|work
<nubae> whenever u feel like working on  the mirror for linux-for-education.org, let me knw
<stgraber> alkisg: the idea for the menu was to write a tool to actually do the filtering correctly (Jordan did some work on that a while ago) and then contact the locoteams to get the configuration for each country/region
<alkisg> stgraber: that'd be nice, but giving the opportunity to loco teams to select which apps they want for their region would be even better imho
<alkisg> (and, it wouldn't be loco teams in this case, it'd be "customization" or "flavor" or something teams...)
<alkisg> (i.e. members of a new group, e.g. edubuntu-customizers)
<stgraber> the idea is that we'll ship a default configuration based on the input we get from the locos, then you can always define your own
<stgraber> I don't think we need a new group for that as we really want it to be more open as we'll need a lot of input from our users (switzerland for example has 24 different school systems ;))
<jbicha> stgraber: and will all the customizations ship on the DVD?
<alkisg> OK, then 24 different "flavors", I don't think there's a problem there...
<stgraber> jbicha: it's the idea, that'll basically be a few small files defining what's to be display, won't take any space on the DVD
<alkisg> As each "flavor" would be a set of apps, it'd only need a few Kb, so we could include any number of them
<stgraber> right
<jbicha> but won't the files depend on apps, wallpaper, etc.?
<stgraber> no
<stgraber> all the applications will be on the DVD anyway, if you do a standard install, they'll all be installed
<stgraber> then you use that software to filter what your users see
<stgraber> so in school districts you could have a single image and depending on the groups in which the user is, he'd get a different set of softwares
<stgraber> alright, let's do some packing, then it'll be time to leave that hotel and head for the airport
<alkisg> I think that giving people the ability to provide sets of apps would be better. E.g. a school may need an app that we won't ship on the dvd; with a set of apps it could be downloaded over the internet, though...
<alkisg> E.g. a multimedia school will have totally different needs than a primary school
<alkisg> Have a nice flight
<Ahmuck-Jr> how does gobby work?  webdev server?
<dgroos_> Hi All,
<dgroos_> I'm trying to experiment with upgrading my Jaunty LTSP server to Karmic.
<dgroos_> I cloned my Jaunty onto an identical, 2 nic server, rebooted, fixed the 70-persistent-net.rules to eth0 and eth1.
<dgroos_> thin clients boot well but...
<dgroos_> I can't get out on the internet on the server.  Neither by firefox nor pinging google.com via terminal
<dgroos_> probably something simple... I checked /etc/network/interfaces and that looked fine.  Any ideas how I can get this cloned server to access the internet (and thus update to Karmic)?
<dgroos_> OK got it finally--saw something on https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/network-configuration.html about /etc/resolv.conf and sure enough, that was a blank page.  fixed it up, restarted server and now have access on server.
<nubae> aj shucks....
<nubae> too bad he couldn't hear me plug telepathy yet again :-p
#edubuntu 2009-11-22
<researcher> Hello friends. I m just new here.anybody got edubuntu in Indian languages?
 * Ahmuck is thinking about traveling to canada.  any suggestions?
<jussi01> does edubuntu include applications for educators?
<jussi01> and is there some where I can find a list of apps inlcuded?
<dgroos> jussi01: interesting question...
<dgroos> what kind of apps are you talking about?
<dgroos> (referring to the first of your questions here...)
<jussi01> dgroos: I was thinking of report writing apps, lesson planning apps etc
<jussi01> dgroos: ie. http://www.schooltool.org/
<dgroos> jussi01: I must admit I've not used it as my district has its own tools for these critical tasks.
<dgroos> I've heard good things about schooltools and about Tom Hoffman's work.  As I understand he is good at communicating and would be happy to answer your questions.
<dgroos> There are other tools as well for teachers who manage the learning environment.  For example there is Sabayon--recently brought up to speed by sbalneav.
<dgroos> This app helps manage the permissions of users and I think he said he now has it so that you can manage users by groups?
<dgroos> Somewhat related is a particular file on the filesystem so that you can customize it and thereby manage users Firefox preferences.
<dgroos> Of course there is Moodle which is a pretty full-featured CMS (perhaps included on the install disk--I heard talk about considering doing this).
<dgroos> I prefer Plone as my CMS however, more generic and malleable and looks lots nicer.  That is also open source though not part of Edubuntu.
<dgroos> I really like CmapTools and CmapServer which are powerful tools, the former adding awesome online capabilities of sharing and collaboration.
<dgroos> Finally, these folks in Finland recently came out with their scaffolding 'knowledge building' software that is a WordPress plugin--here's a demo to it: http://fle4.uiah.fi/2009/08/demo-of-kb/
<dgroos> The user and group admin app is pretty weak in general and is currently, probably, the weakest link for me in the whole system.
<dgroos> There is I'm sure a list of apps included though I've not seen it.  Anyone?
<highvoltage> WIDGTT?
<dgroos> hmmm... that means?
<highvoltage> Who Is DGroos Talking To? :)
<highvoltage> hey there dgroos
<dgroos> High hivoltage!
<dgroos> himself, usually ;)
<highvoltage> I see I'm not the only one up late!
<dgroos> Well... I just admit that it is only 3:11 in the afternoon here...
<dgroos> You are in Germany?
<highvoltage> dgroos: close (timezone-wise), South Africa
<highvoltage> dgroos: for some reason I thought you were in Europe
<dgroos> Ah right! I knew that...
<dgroos> Well, several generations ago that would have been true...
<dgroos> but then I guess pretty much everyone is from somewhere else if you go back far enough.
<dgroos> So, I've been asked this before, where can I get a list of apps included in an edubuntu version?
<highvoltage> we should have a web page for that
<dgroos> (I should probably just let you finish what you are doing so you could go to bed...)
<highvoltage> it's a good and typical question which we don't really have answered somewhere atm
<highvoltage> heh no worries
<dgroos> a web page would be good...
<highvoltage> hmm there's http://www.edubuntu.org/applications but it's in serious need of updating
<dgroos> How hard would it be for the ubuntu web site to have some wysiwyg editing options?  That would not only make it a site
<highvoltage> I usually tell people it's KDE-Edu, Gcompris, Tux4kids and a few other loose edu apps
<highvoltage> dgroos: I've been wondering whether Wordpress wouldn't be better in terms of editing and maintenance
<dgroos> ... friendlier to semi-techies, but also would allow us to more easily have better looking pages.
<highvoltage> drupal has better social networking tools and functionality
<highvoltage> but it doesn't help us if we're never going to use it anyway
<dgroos> That is true :)
<dgroos> It's a bit of the chicken vs egg conundrum--hard to have one without the other...
<highvoltage> I think there are some wysiwyg plugins for drupal we could try out as well, although I think the current drupal installation is very outdated
<highvoltage> that's one thing that I like about wordpress as well, it's so simple to keep up to date
<dgroos> hmmm... would this be a moment to put out a plug for Plone...?  It is hugely extensible, a mature open source project and vigorously improveing, excellent security (at least according to those in the know) and looks good.
<dgroos> here's my favorite plone site: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov
<highvoltage> I like the vigorously improving part... but I'm sceptical on the rest :)
<highvoltage> Ubuntu's site used to run on Plone
<dgroos> Really!?
<highvoltage> it fell over and they couldn't get it back up again... and that's with Canonical even having lots of great python/zope/etc people
<highvoltage> yep, it was plone right from the start
<highvoltage> and then they switched to moin
<highvoltage> and then drupal
<dgroos> when was that?  I've used it in my classroom since 2005.  It really is quite slick but once again, it takes a learning curve :-(
<dgroos> Right.  It can be a drag when Things Go Bad...
<dgroos> You know... I just got this right now: highvoltage: WIDGTT?
<dgroos> [3:10pm] dgroos: hmmm... that means?
<dgroos> [3:10pm] highvoltage: Who Is DGroos Talking To?
<dgroos> slow on the uptake :-)
<dgroos> that was Jussi01, I thought, though rather asynchronously.
<highvoltage> hehe
#edubuntu 2010-11-22
<shan> Pardon me if I'm doing this wrong.  I've never used IRC and was directed here by the Edubuntu website.  I have a question.
<stgraber> sure, go ahead.
<shan> I'm trying to install edubuntu using USB and get cannot mount dev loop0 on filesystem.squashfs.  I see lots of references in support forums but not many answers.
<stgraber> what ISO image did you use for that ?
<shan> edubuntu-10.10-dvd-i386.iso
<stgraber> ok, did you make the USB stick from Ubuntu or from Windows ?
<shan> Windows with Unetbootin
<shan> looks like I might have gotten a bad dL.  I just ran MD5sum and the numbers didn't match up.  Problem solved - hopefully.
<stgraber> ah, that'd explain it
<shan> thanks for the assistance though.
<highvoltage> /join #kubuntu-devel
<highvoltage> (oops)
<mgariepy> mornign
<mgariepy> morning**
<highvoltage> morning mgariÃ©py
<highvoltage> mgariepy: this looks kind of cool for the pdf-reader: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/get-chromium-on-ubuntu-to-play-mp4-h-264-mp3-view-pdf-files-natively
<mgariepy> highvoltage, indeed it does seem cool !
#edubuntu 2010-11-23
<persia> Hey.  I just stumbled into #edubuntu-devel, which seems to have been unused for a couple years :)  Is this also the right forum for development questions?
<stgraber> persia: yes, we only use #edubuntu nowadays
<highvoltage> hmm, daily builds are broken because of:
<highvoltage> The following packages have unmet dependencies: sabayon : Depends: gdm3 but it is not installable
<highvoltage> E: Broken packages
<stgraber> fun
<highvoltage> sbalneav: does sabayon actually need gdm3 or would it be fine with gdm as well? I'll check with the desktop team anyway to see what the plan is for gsm in natty
<highvoltage> *gdm
<highvoltage> seb128 says that gdm 2.30 = gdm3 as it exists in debian, so we should patch it
<ball> Is there a good book on Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> ball: unfortunately not
<ball> Oh well.  Can't put that on my Christmas list then.
<highvoltage> :(
<highvoltage> hopefully next Christmas?
<ball> Perhaps :-)
<ball> Is it common (usual?) to configure one Ethernet interface for connection to the outside world and another for a LAN with graphical terminals on it?
<persia> stgraber, Ah, thanks.  I'm collecting data on installation targets for each flavour.  Which are you guys planning to release with Natty?
<highvoltage> very common
<highvoltage> ball: it's how our default installation works if you choose to install ltsp from the installer
<ball> highvoltage: That's convenient.
<ball> highvoltage: does it ask me which interface is which?
<highvoltage> ball: it asks you which interface you want ltsp to 'listen' on, by default it selects eth1
<ball> 'listen' for terminals?
<highvoltage> ball: it also shows you which interface is currently connected, so the connected one will have gotten a dhcp address somewhere, so you can use the unused one for ltsp
<highvoltage> ball: well, listen for dhcp requests, etc (but yes)
<highvoltage> stgraber: Rejected:
<highvoltage> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'.
<highvoltage> stgraber: isn't sabayon part of the edubuntu-dev packageset?
<ubuntuuser> hello.. i have a kingston dt/16gb flash drive that is recognized but keeps saying to format it
<stgraber> persia: sorry, had a couple of meetings. What do you mean by installation targets ? architecture, kind of machine (laptop, netbook, ...) ?
<persia> somewhere between architecture and subarchitecture.
<persia> So, for maverick, You released i386, amd64, but not amd64+mac or any other architecture.
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: does it use the ntfs filesystem?
<ball> brb, toast
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: can't seem to put any FS on it
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: what happens?
<stgraber> persia: I'd guess we'll stick to i386 and amd64. Possibly amd64+mac though I only discovered about this sub-architecture a minute ago when you mentioned it ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: me too :)
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: i have even tried to use test disk
<persia> I don't know if we'll need that for natty: depends on whether the installer can be made to cope.  Who is the best contact to confirm the images are tested at each milestone?
<stgraber> persia: highvoltage and I
<persia> Both of you are required to ack, or either of you?
<stgraber> either
<stgraber> we are usually next to each other (at work or back home) so, no need to poke both of us ;)
<persia> Thanks.  I'll report that, and if there are other x86 installation targets for natty, I'll let you know.
<stgraber> great, thanks
<highvoltage> well, not *always* next to each other at home (just for the record!)
<stgraber> hehe :)
<ubuntuuser> is there a channel for usb flash drive support?
 * persia departs before reading more disturbing things
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: #ubuntu might be of some use, the more details you can provide, the better though
<ubuntuuser> my poor 16gb drive is unusable
<ball> ubuntuuser: Does it have at least one partition on it?  With a filesystem?
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: that's terrible.
<ubuntuuser> ball: no ..
<ball> ubuntuuser: Can you create one?
<ubuntuuser> it's a new  drive and i have succesfully saved files on it and it was fine but now i check it and there is no partition
<ubuntuuser> ball: no i cannot.. i have tried fdisk in linux terminal and assigned partitions but when i "w" out it won't write to the disk
<ubuntuuser> but when i "v" verify it it shows the partition
<ubuntuuser> but then won't write when i "w" out
<ball> It shows the one you created, or the one that was originally on there?
<ubuntuuser> the one i created
<ubuntuuser> start sector 1 and end sector 16000
<ball> ubuntuuser: Can you newfs/mkfs it?
<ball> (Whatever the Linuxese is for that ;-)
<ubuntuuser> i tried mkfs .. but it won't put the file system on it
<ball> Perhaps it's broken.
<ubuntuuser> it's brand new
<ball> Perhaps it's broken.
<ubuntuuser> just used it a few times
<ubuntuuser> hmm
<ball> Try formatting it on a nearby Mac or PC
<ball> ...see if that helps.
<ubuntuuser> yep.. i tried on xp, vista, linux .. backtrack, systemrescuecd, ..
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: no one will be able to help you unless you paste the error message or what actually goes wrong
<ball> ubuntuuser: If it won't format on Windows or Linux, it's broken.  If it's new, return it to the vendor.
<ball> If it's old, throw it away.
<ubuntuuser> ok.. let me gather the info.. coz i only have 2 usb working on this machine
<ubuntuuser> its brand new
<ubuntuuser> kingston datatraveler dt\16gb
<ubuntuuser> dt100
<ubuntuuser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535640/
<ubuntuuser> ball: , highvoltage  as you can see from this pastebin that when i finalize with "w" to write and quit  the partition is no written
<ball> Oh that's weird: I wonder why Linux fdisk calls it a disklabel.
<ubuntuuser> ball: . so.... what do you think is happening
<ball> ubuntuuser: try u, to create it in sectors.  Have it start at sector 32 and end at...
<ubuntuuser> i even used the t parameter to change to FAT32  but it is just not writing to the disk.. and i checked the "dmesg" and the disk is not write protected
<ball> ...make it 3,275,780 sectors long
<ball> ...and try making it ext3 instead of DOS
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: I'd suggest you try it with cfdisk -z on that disk and see if that works
<ball> Hang on, that can't be right
<ubuntuuser> i've tried the "u" parameter and also the ext2, ext3, and others.. it just won't write to disk
 * ball is confused
<ubuntuuser> :-)
<ball> Start: 32
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: i have not tried the cfdisk
<ubuntuuser> k
<ball> Size: 32,767,968 sectors
<ball> Hello HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi :)
<ball> I suspect you're overwriting your MBR
<ball> ...because you didn't leave space for it
<ubuntuuser> ok
<ball> ...depending on how Linux fdisk counts cylinders
<ball> ...which is another reason to use sectors.
<ball> (u command)
<ubuntuuser> let me try that
 * ball waves dd, menacingly.
<ubuntuuser> ball.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/535642/
<ubuntuuser> just won't write
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: sorry for stating the obvious, but have you checked if it has a write-protect button and if it's enabled?
<ubuntuuser> no button.. it just slides out of the case..  and i checked dmesg and the write protection is "off"
<ubuntuuser> i have written to this disk b4 sucessfully
<ubuntuuser> i mean disk=drive
<ubuntuuser> ball, highvoltage  i have to leave for an hour.. i'll be back. thanks for all the help
<ball> ubuntuuser: you didn't write a filesystem on it
<ball> ...and it looks as though TestDisk blatted your partition
<ball> Why not simply create the partition (looks like you did that part right) and then newfs it?
<ball> (mkfs, whatever Linux calls that)
<ball> mkext3fs ?
 * ball doesn't have a Linux box handy to check that on
<highvoltage> ball: the usb creator tool can take care of that as well
<ball> highvoltage: I'm not familiar with that.
<ball> I think he created a perfectly good partition and then ruined it before even making a filesystem on it.
 * ball shrugs
<ball> hello JanC!
<ball> brb
<ball> I'd best go to work I suppose.
<ubuntuuser> ball, highvoltage hello i'm back
<ubuntuuser> when i "w" out and try mkfs i get some kind of an error
<highvoltage> wb ubuntuuser
<ubuntuuser> says the disk has to be partitioned first..
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: thanks
<ubuntuuser> :)
<ubuntuuser> even though i just partitioned it and the fs states "83" which is a LInux fs
<ubuntuuser> then i tried "t" to change to "b" which is FAT32
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: what's the exact mkfs command you use?
<ubuntuuser> but can't get past the error
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: it's possible that you specified the disk instead of the partition
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: the disk will look something like /dev/sdc and the partition will be something like /dev/sdc1
<ubuntuuser> when you type "mkfs /dev/sdf" it gives the option
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: you'll have to use sdf1 instead of sdf to create a filesystem on a partition
<ubuntuuser> but when i type "mkfs /dev/sdf1" it states there is no partion
<ubuntuuser> partition
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: does cat /proc/partitions list the partition?
<ubuntuuser> i din't try that command but i went backc into fdisk and "p" to list the partions and there is no partition
<ubuntuuser> even though i just partitioned it
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: and have you tried cfdisk -z on that disk as I've suggested before?
<ubuntuuser> no .. that one thing i am not familiar with
<ubuntuuser> shall i try that
<ubuntuuser> ?
<highvoltage> ubuntuuser: Yes.
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: how do i specify start sector and end sector in "sudo cfdisk -z /dev/sdf"?
<ubuntuuser> hello
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage:
<ubuntuuser> highvoltage: are you there?
<ubuntuuser> i am probably doing something wrong on command line but i am wondering why  it is not working in "disk utility"
<ubuntuuser> ok.. i'll check with you later....
<ubuntuuser> thanks for all your   help
<highvoltage> oops, missed him
#edubuntu 2010-11-24
<qwerty> HELLO
<qwerty> Who can help me with this " firefox is alredy running..." in client terminal
<Guest23200> who can help me?
<alkisg> "client terminal"? is this an LTSP setup?
<Guest23200> yes
<Guest23200> ufff i was repair this problem
<Guest23200> in /home/$user$/.mozilla/ I can't see profile
<Guest23200> then I create and copy with chown to other user :))
<hendrikus> hello _ were can i download the edubuntu addon cd?
<alkisg> There's no addon cd anymore, there's only the edubuntu dvd
<hendrikus> alkisg: There's no addon cd anymore, there's only the edubuntu dvd >>> Thanks for the info
<hendrikus> alkisg: is there a list of software wich software was on the addon cd?
<alkisg> The exact list would be available in the CD seeds, which should be somewhere in an ubuntu archive, but I don't have any links handy.
<alkisg> Installing edubuntu-desktop would get you most of the list though
<hendrikus> alkisg: o.k thanks _ another question_ how can we make a edubuntu instal on a server so wich can be opend in a webbrowser such as the edubuntu Live Web?
<alkisg> hendrikus: no idea, there's no need to ask specific persons, ask in the channel, maybe the developer who did it will see your question and reply. :)
<hendrikus> alkisg: i wil do that _ thanks anyway to help me.
<hendrikus> how can we make a edubuntu instal on a server so wich can be opend in a webbrowser such as the edubuntu Live Web?
<karthick87> I created a menu profile with Edubuntu Menu Editor and associated it with a group using Profile Manager. The profile is not showing up hen I log in to that user. This is for an LTSP setup using Edubuntu 10.10.Can anyone help?
<highvoltage> http://newsblaze.com/story/20101119111941reye.nb/topstory.html
<highvoltage> anyone around for Edubuntu meeting?
<charlie-tca> I saw that pencil story in usnews and thought the same thing as that headline.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I'm semi-here
 * charlie-tca questions who is going to pay for those supplied pencils, too.
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: heh, yeah that's a weird country :)
<HedgeMage> pencil story?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: http://newsblaze.com/story/20101119111941reye.nb/topstory.html
<highvoltage> not edubuntu specific though :)
 * HedgeMage headdesks
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: When I was in 7th grade, I built a guillotine for a science project and brought it to school.  When my son was in kindergarten, I had to bring him a change of clothes to school because he wore a pirate shirt at Halloween with a picture of crossed swords -- the shirt was deemed a weapon.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: What's the world coming to?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: not sure if that's happening in the entire world though :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: ...yet.
<highvoltage> hmm, I still doubt that it will :)
<highvoltage> rest of the world isn't that into TSA etc :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: yeah, but other parts of the world have their kinds of totalitarian stupid...countries that censor speech, countries that video-surveille every public place they can 24/7 (looking at you, England), etc.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I'm more than a little miff we haven't had an uprising here in the US yet.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: *nod*
<HedgeMage> A bill was recently passed to basically tax independent internet services (jabber, irc, email, etc) out of existence, we have the 4th amendment being totally ignored, we have government limits on free speech for the first time in ages, we have insane government growth with high taxes and deficit spending on top of it, etc.
<HedgeMage> I could go on and on.
<HedgeMage> Oh, and the supposedly constitution-loving GOP recently decided that kids should lose their constitutionally guaranteed citizenship rights if their parents commit certain crimes.
<highvoltage> wow, I haven't heard about that yet, sounds cruel.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: basically, our constitution says that any person born here is a citizen -- but the GOP is proposing to withhold that citizenship in violation of the constitution, if one/both of the parents is a non-citizen.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: (this is supposedly to address the crime of illegal immigration, but there have been allusions to applying it more broadly)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: Regardless of whether it is only applied to children of immigrants or not -- the argument is that too many people come here illegaly to collect entitlements (welfare money, food stamps, section 8 housing, free health care, etc).  Now, entitlement programs violate our constitution already -- the solution to that is not another unconstitutional measure.
<HedgeMage> anyhow, time for me to go
<HedgeMage> ttyl
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I guess it's reasonable for a child who's parents was just on holiday there when born and the child isn't going to be growing up there anyway, then there's little reason for the child to get citezenship (just my opinion)
#edubuntu 2010-11-25
<highvoltage> moo
<jussi> highvoltage: gone mad cow on us eh? :D
<highvoltage> jussi: no sane cow. http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/moo/
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> MOO! :D
<alkisg> highvoltage: did you mention something about a fat client-related post in your blog? Is that published?
<highvoltage> alkisg: hmm? I did post a blog entry yesterday about fat clients, yes
<alkisg> Just found it, reading...
<alkisg> (you mentioned about it in the meeting, but it wasn't published yet at that time)
<highvoltage> indeed, I thought you meant that I referred to another post in the post. ok.
<alkisg> highvoltage: does that command in your post work? Doesn't it try to install java and fail?
<highvoltage> alkisg: it worked here
<alkisg> That's why I put the preseeds file in the wiki page... hmm maybe some recent change in the java package then
<highvoltage> alkisg: you're referring to the ltsp-build-client command?
<alkisg> yup, ltsp-build-client --fat-client --fat-client-desktop edubuntu-desktop --arch i386 --skipimage
<alkisg> Ah sorry
<alkisg> No that's with ubuntu-restricted-extras
<alkisg> OK, never mind, it just doesn't install java by default
#edubuntu 2010-11-26
<mhall119> highvoltage: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/adeskbar-dock-panel-replacement-for-ubuntu/
<mhall119> I'm gonna use that to learn how to make a stand-alone Qimo launchbar
<mhall119> instead of panel applets for both Gnome and Xfce
<alkisg> !info sane-utils lucid
<ubottu> sane-utils (source: sane-backends): API library for scanners -- utilities. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.20-13ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 223 kB, installed size 608 kB
<alkisg> !info sane-utils maverick
<ubottu> sane-utils (source: sane-backends): API library for scanners -- utilities. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.21-2ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 209 kB, installed size 588 kB
<cristiansimion> How can I enable LTSP on an already installed Edubuntu?
<mgariepy> morning everyone !
<highvoltage> morning mgariepy
<mgariepy> morning highvoltage how you doing ?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: good thanks, did you go to the office today?
<mgariepy> yep i arrived at 10h45 or 11
#edubuntu 2010-11-27
<tallis> hi 2 all
<tallis> does anybody have any experience with thin-clients and network boot?
<j_baer> John from the Artwork Team, I have a quick question if anyone has time.
<dekstronic> Hi all , i have problem with logging into edubuntu web live ... when i wrote my names and password and i started connect , then i have a message "Authentication failed" can someone help me
<bdoin> which login are you talking about, at what stage are you ?
#edubuntu 2011-11-21
<highvoltage> good moring
<alkisg> Good morning
#edubuntu 2011-11-22
<irctc083> Hi,
<irctc083> Am using Edubuntu 11.1 LTS and used Sabayon for the first time yesterday. In the User Profile Editor with a profile selected I get a Fatal Error when I click Edit, wich asks me to send a file
<irctc083> g--log.conf to http://bugzilla.gnome.org.  I have seen references to similar problems when using earlier versions of Edubuntu, is there a fix for this and if so what is it ?
<irctc083> file was /etc/sabayon/sabayon-debug-log.conf in the error message but there does not appear to be a file of this name anyway.
<alkisg> highvoltage: so we should just reply to your mail saying "I want to serve for another term, and here's my wiki page"?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
<alkisg> Ty, sent
<highvoltage> and thank you!
 * highvoltage enjoys being back in this timezone
<highvoltage> stgraber: good morning
<stgraber> hey highvoltage
<stgraber> I'm writting my e-mail to edubuntu-devel just now :)
<stgraber> sent
<highvoltage> great
<highvoltage> the Debian-Edu people emailmed me again about the integration script
<highvoltage> (to authenticate edubuntu against a debian-edu server)
<highvoltage> I'm wondering if it would perhaps be a good addition in the installer alongside the AD/LDAP options. I told them that they can join our Edubuntu meeting next week if they'd like to take some action on that.
<stgraber> isn't there stuff just an openldap?
<stgraber> *their
<highvoltage> I think so, perhaps that could just be the openldap option then. I believe they use gosa so it should be pretty straight forward.
<stgraber> right, I think for now it should just work with the LDAP option
<stgraber> I haven't spent too much time thinking about it (working on the ISO tracker non-stop till next week) but my guess is that the addon will have a few "profiles"
<stgraber> with the most complex being AD as it's LDAP + Kerberos
<highvoltage> I'll still encourage them to join the meeting, they might be able to do some testing for us
<highvoltage> ah yes
<stgraber> the others are just LDAP with a specific schema, just changing the value of the schema field should give us support for edirectory/mac directory/openldap/...
<JerryNJ> anyone awake who can help me complete an LTSP deployment on Lucid with a single nic?
<JerryNJ> anyone awake who can help me complete an LTSP deployment on Lucid with a single nic?
<highvoltage> ask away, JerryNJ
<JerryNJ> im having some difficulty
<JerryNJ> looks like dhcpd is running on the ubuntu box, but it shouldnt
<JerryNJ> so i think that needs to be turned off
<JerryNJ> and i dont know how
<JerryNJ> on my PXE-T01
<JerryNJ> PXE-E3B
<JerryNJ> ack, those are the errors I get from pixie clients
#edubuntu 2011-11-23
<sebsebseb> hi
<alkisg> Hi
<sebsebseb> alkisg: hi
<highvoltage> hi!
<sebsebseb> hi highvoltage
#edubuntu 2011-11-26
<vtpoet> Is anyone using qjoypad on Edubuntu 11.10 AMD64? I have installed it. It recognizes the gamepad, but if I choose Update Layout List, a window fails to open?
#edubuntu 2011-11-27
<stgraber> Tested the latest Edubuntu daily builds, fixed all the issues I found so next one should be good for alpha-1 (updated lightdm theme, updated plymouth theme, updated slideshow and fixed LTSP)
#edubuntu 2012-11-20
<kleewyck> I'm wondering if anyone has had this issue with Edubuntu 12.xx and LTSP. I have an HP 5700 and now matter what I have tried it says "please use a kernel appropriate for my CPU  missing feature PAE. Yet As far as I can prove I'm booting the generic kernel.
<kleewyck> any ideas?
<kleewwyck> Is anyone running the current 12.xx builds with hp t5700s? as a LTSP farm?
<mjbrooks> Is there a way to have a single login for an entire lab using ltsp? I don't think the younger kids will do well having to deal with their own accounts
#edubuntu 2012-11-22
<cjohnston> stgraber: ping
<stgraber> cjohnston: pong
<cjohnston> stgraber: I don't know who the edubuntu project lead is anymore... Are the blueprints for edubuntu all sorted out and good to go for status.ubuntu.com?
<stgraber> cjohnston: that'd be highvoltage and me. All of our blueprints should be good and I believe they already all show up on status.u.c
<cjohnston> ok.. great.. just making sure.
<cjohnston> thanks stgraber
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think you pointed me to some ubuntu server product css that you suggested we use as a base for edubuntu server
<highvoltage> stgraber: could you point me to that again?
<stgraber> highvoltage: that was maas
<highvoltage> ah yes that's right
<highvoltage> thanks
<highvoltage> uuugh... the maas source package contians tarballs with django eggs inside them
<highvoltage> ew
<highvoltage> stgraber: maas's theme does indeed look nice, the only thing I don't like about it is the AGPL licence, but I guess it could be worse
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, I'd like something that looks like it, not necessarily is based on it, so as long as we don't copy the code, we should be fine license-wise
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<highvoltage> looks simple enough to duplicate quite easily, at least
<highvoltage> stgraber: will edubuntu server also mount home directories from the server?
<highvoltage> I mean, the edubuntu server clients
<stgraber> not initially, but a file server role is planned
<highvoltage> ok
#edubuntu 2012-11-23
<Martin_> Hi ! I'm interested to implement edubuntu package selection dialog to my own ubuntu based distribution... Where should I start ?
<highvoltage> good morning
<highvoltage> skaet: hey there, how are you doing?
<highvoltage> stgraber: http://edubuntu.org/2012-10-21/13.03-call-for-packaging-help - I'm going through my notes to find additional packages to add there, anything you know of?
<stgraber> highvoltage: will check in a minute
<highvoltage> ok, no rus
<highvoltage> *rush
<stgraber> highvoltage: nothing I can remember
<highvoltage> stgraber: checking some old notes on seed changes, I'm adding vym back to the desktop since we don't have a mindmap editor since java was dropped
<highvoltage> stgraber: also adding chemtool to secondary and tertiary since we had 2 requests for it in the past
<highvoltage> stgraber: and krecipes since it's a nice piece of software
<highvoltage> stgraber: and also fritzing (it's a shame we've gone so far without a good electronics app, really)
<highvoltage> stgraber: and gramps, the geneology software
<highvoltage> stgraber: you said a while ago that we should look at games properly at some point for a release, 13.04 is probably a good one to do that for don't you think?
<stgraber> sure
#edubuntu 2012-11-25
<TheJuror> Hello, anybody able to assist with  audio/sound  trouble on a thin client?
#edubuntu 2013-11-19
<RowdyGuy> why are the menus hidden in edubuntu?
<dazedandconfused> is there something wrong w/ securty updates for edubuntu?
<dazedandconfused> I keep getting waiting when I try to update security updates, but only those, everything else will update
<dazedandconfused> I have just downloaded 12.04 and put on an old aus eeepc that I am going to give to a friend of mine's kid
<dazedandconfused> Is there any way to just download these essentially as a blob and put it on a usb stick and update it from that?
<dazedandconfused> correction, it isn't the security updates it is the recommended but there are 431 of them
<highvoltage> ogra_: heh, I see you're slashdotted too now
<ogra_> highvoltage, yeah ... all the fame :P
<highvoltage> :)
#edubuntu 2013-11-22
<robert_b_bones> Can someone tell me if the upcoming 14.04 release will have cluster setup available right out of the box?
<alkisg> highvoltage: hi, do you have a few minutes to talk about how we can solve the "accessories menu got split into accessories and utilities" issue in gnome-flashback menus?
<alkisg> The problem was caused by /etc/xdg/menus/gnome-applications.menu
<highvoltage> alkisg: not right now (sorting out another problem that needs some focus), but can give you a poke a bit later
<alkisg> highvoltage: cool, I'll be here, thanks
<alkisg> On another note, could we revert the window buttons to the right with gnome-flashback? /me does that locally with the sch-scripts package...
<alkisg> I don't think it makes any sense to keep them to the left without unity...
<alkisg> So we could have a debian/gnome-fallback.gconf-defaults:
<alkisg> /apps/metacity/general/button_layout menu:minimize,maximize,close
<alkisg> Whoops, it's in the new gsettings now...
<alkisg> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences button-layout "menu:minimize,maximize,close"
<alkisg> So we'll need a debian/gnome-panel.gsettings-override instead, if we do want to fix it that way
#edubuntu 2014-11-21
<PhoenixSTF> hey guys, the edubuntu site is down 403
<stgraber> PhoenixSTF: we know
<PhoenixSTF> stgraber: ok... need help or anything?
<stgraber> nope, it's stuck on Canonical sysadmins at the moment
<PhoenixSTF> oh... darn
#edubuntu 2015-11-17
<designbybeck> greetings all. has anyone used Celestia, the space program?
<designbybeck> I'm wondering why the Moon and other textures don't show up
<designbybeck> this has happened in all versions I've used
 * highvoltage installs it out of curiousity after not having run it for years
#edubuntu 2016-11-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.7.8-15-g6e45ffb-0ubuntu1 => 0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-11-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.2 => 2.6-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.6-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.6-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2016-11-25
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.6-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.7-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.6-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.6-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.6.2-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-11-21
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.1-41-g76243487-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 17.1-41-g76243487-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.1-41-g76243487-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-11-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.20-0ubuntu4~16.04.1 => 2.0.11-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-11-20
<Justin__> Hello
<Justin__> I'm looking to take over the project and fund it. Who could I contact
<Justin__> My team is currently working on a 18.04 Edubuntu release since the project is currently no longer active
<Justin__> I would like to know how to take it over
#edubuntu 2018-11-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (cosmic-proposed/universe) [3.0.2-0ubuntu1 => 3.0.3-0ubuntu1~18.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (bionic-proposed/main) [3.0.2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 3.0.3-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (bionic-proposed/main) [3.0.2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 3.0.3-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-11-19
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-flashback (eoan-proposed/universe) [3.34.0-1ubuntu1 => 3.34.0-1ubuntu1.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2019-11-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:10.3.10-1~ubuntu0.18.04.2 => 2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
