#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-23
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting today at 19:00 UTC in #xubuntu-devel. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I'll be on a plane at that time, my only update is that we can't use the canonical staging site to stage the theme so we're going to need to run our own and go from there until the theme is complete
<pleia2> I'll talk to knome and we might get something up this week to start writing our new theme
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> as a follow-up on the discussion of whether to include something for touchpads in xubuntu by default i wanted to refer to this thread: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2011-May/028865.html
<ochosi> seems like this feature is planned upstream
<ochosi> so maybe it isn't worth digging around for something else
<pleia2> oh! I also filed some bugs against the site (and fixed some), I encourage others to review and do the same: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<charlie-tca> Great! Xfce developers are really on top of most stuff
<ochosi> charlie-tca: they're already discussing the UI, so i assume that it could be part of 11.10 even if xfce 4.10 isn't released by the time
<ochosi> at least iirc they now plan to do more individual releases of the components
<ochosi> oh, and also i have to apologize, i won't be able to make the meeting tonight
<charlie-tca> Okay, any plans for oneiric need to get discussed quickly
<charlie-tca> We are looking at a short cycle this time, compared to Natty
<knome> pleia2, absolutely
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 35minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: any chance this is complete now?  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-doc-packaging
<micahg> charlie-tca: meeting in here?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> In 4 minutes
 * charlie-tca waves at the crowd
<charlie-tca> Let's welcome everyone to the Xubuntu Community Meeting 
<micahg> wow, login screen in oneiric is funky ATM
<charlie-tca> For those who can not be here, there will be minutes and logs
<charlie-tca> I haven't upgraded yet
 * micahg just upgraded his spare laptop
<charlie-tca> We don't have a meeting bot, so I will copy the logs after the meeting
<charlie-tca> A full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<drc> charlie-tca: "The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request."
<charlie-tca> reload the page
<charlie-tca> it is a common wiki error
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - Old business - all 
<charlie-tca> TOPIC - email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Thurs, Fri only for days 
<charlie-tca> This was done, Monday was chosen as the best day for most of us. As for times, they are harder to pin down
<charlie-tca> 19:00 UTC seems to be a good time, but there are conflicts in #ubuntu-meeting at that time. 
<charlie-tca> I can attempt to get a meeting bot in here, which would nicely resolve the issue
<charlie-tca> Any questions or comments on the new meeting time?
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will make more progress on Marketing during this cycle.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads 
<charlie-tca> This is the time to decide what w
<charlie-tca> we are doing for Oneiric. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any updates?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will we see Xfce 4.8.2 for Oneiric?
<charlie-tca> Website: We are going to move to wordpress from Drupal
<xrdodrx> am I on time
<xrdodrx> for the meeting described @ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-May/007787.html
<charlie-tca> We will be setting up a test site, either through knome or pleia2 own setups, since Canonical staging site is only them to see if our site is okay
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: yes, on time
<mr_pouit> no updates, sorry
<charlie-tca> Np
<charlie-tca> no problem
<mr_pouit> yeah, newer upstream releases will be synced
<charlie-tca> That will be great! 
 * micahg got midori 0.3.6 into oneiric
<charlie-tca> Artwork this cycle will be mainly improving greybird and the wallpaper 
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<mr_pouit> micahg: and parole :p
<micahg> mr_pouit: yep, didn't know anyone cared about it though (weirdly enough, it's still a recommends for xubuntu-desktop and in the default install)
<charlie-tca> We have an Oneiric Goals page, which we should try to keep updated
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Oneiric
<charlie-tca> Our artwork team will also be working from http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:greybird, which has several goals they would like to get in for Oneiric
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we looking at both gtk2 and gtk3 for this cycle?
<charlie-tca> Announcements - 
<mr_pouit> no, the focus is still on gtk+2
<charlie-tca> We have alpha1 coming at us fast. The tentative calendar/schedule for Oneiric is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<mr_pouit> (upstream for 4.10 at least)
<charlie-tca> Great. I do know Ubuntu will be moving some stuff to gtk3, since they will be adding gnome3 to the repositories
<micahg> mr_pouit: won't we need GTK3 for apport and related GNOME stuff?
<charlie-tca> Alpha1 release is due on June 2. It would be nice to see some of 4.8.2 in there if possible, but we need to at least have an alpha1 release
<charlie-tca> We will also need testers for each milestone, so if you can, let me know as soon as possible.
<charlie-tca> I hope to split the roadmap out more, and will have specific things that have to happen. We would like to have people volunteer to do those items.
<charlie-tca> We have pleia2 and knome working the website, We need someone that can go through the wiki documentation and update it.
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, testing can be done using virtualboxes? im fairly new to all this, sorry if its a silly question
<xrdodrx> Soupermanito, it's best to test on real hardware, just set up a dedicated partiton for xubuntu test releases/nightlies I'd say
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: yes, for us testing works in VirtualBox
<xrdodrx> or not :D
<micahg> Soupermanito: testdrive is also a good way (which can use virtualbox or qemu on the backend)
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, unfortunately, and I think it'll be a mess
<charlie-tca> Heh. 
<micahg> mr_pouit: no doubt
<mr_pouit> because afaik, gtk3 needs its own theme, and won't use the gtk2 murrine based one
<micahg> mr_pouit: right
<charlie-tca> I am thinking right now that if there is a way, we are looking at putting Xfce 4.10 into 12.04, which is the LTS. 
<charlie-tca> If that is a true statement, we need Oneiric to be as stable as we can get it.
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: can we count on you for testing then, at least the milestones in the schedule?
<micahg> charlie-tca: what does it matter?  oneiric won't have 4.10
<xrdodrx> since xfce is based on gtk, are there any plans to add unity (2D?) to xubuntu for oneiric? I thought unity was to "unify" officially-supported ubuntu-based distros?
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: there will not be any plans to add unity to Xubuntu 
<xrdodrx> that's good to hear :)
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, yes i think you can, i will need some kind of testing protocol or something but yes
<charlie-tca> We are not Ubuntu, we are a separate distribution
<mr_pouit> we (try to) stay close to upstream
<charlie-tca> I will give whatever help is needed for testing
<charlie-tca> Unity was designed to unify all the Ubuntu distributions, meaning desktop, mobile, netbook, etc
<beardygnome> i'm happy to test the milestones as well
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: great! putting you both down. We do test starting the tuesday before the milestone
<charlie-tca> and testing is run 24 hours, so you can do it in your own timez
<charlie-tca> timezones
<beardygnome> how much time should i allow?
<charlie-tca> as much as you can. Images are subject to instant rebuild, and then will be tested completely again.
<charlie-tca> for natty final, I think I burned about 48 cd's, between ubuntu and Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> and I only got two for each one when it was released
<beardygnome> when's the first milestone?
<xrdodrx> beardygnome, 2 june
<charlie-tca> June 2
<beardygnome> i just moved house so don't have internet there yet
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<charlie-tca> Okay, we will try to keep you informed
<charlie-tca> Any questions on what we discussed?
<charlie-tca> Any Other Business - all/anyone 
<charlie-tca> Meeting times and dates, I think is settled. 
<beardygnome> can i get a link to the testing procedures?
<drc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> I will try to schedule them for here and #ubuntu-meeting both, perhaps using this three times a month and #ubuntu-meeting once a month
<charlie-tca> I would like to hold weekly meetings, since it does seem to keep all of us informed about what is happening.
<charlie-tca> Before I forget, Ubuntu did agree to use LightDM to replace GDM
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we will also, right?
<charlie-tca> The lightdm developer is devoting all of his time to make it work, and iron out any issues
<charlie-tca> Anyone have anything they would like to bring up?
<charlie-tca> going...
<beardygnome> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, beardygnome 
<beardygnome> just a big congratulations to everyone for natty :-)
<charlie-tca> I would add mine and a huge thank you also to that!
<beardygnome> it's working really well for me
<beardygnome> and i'm loving the new networking features
<beardygnome> (though that's down to xfce, not us)
<charlie-tca> I seem to have an issue yet with the screensaver locking things up, but I really like natty
<micahg> charlie-tca: gltext?
<beardygnome> anyone else had the panel restart on them?
<charlie-tca> all the gl... ones
<micahg> charlie-tca: was fixed with 5.13, might be worth an SRU if we can find the commit
<beardygnome> (sorry, i'm derailing this, i'll take it to the ml)
<jozefk> yes panel restarts coz of screensaver but not a big deal
<charlie-tca> If I dig for it, you will help me get it done?
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure
<micahg> charlie-tca: idk if the source repo for xscreensaver is available
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yep, if ubuntu throws gdm away, we'll follow :p
<charlie-tca> ACTION:  Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU
<charlie-tca> It's happening, mr_pouit 
<micahg> mr_pouit: I think it's for alpha1, I"ll check quick
<xrdodrx> I've used ubuntu since 6.06 (gnome), but switched to xubuntu 4 days ago, and I've only experienced minor bugs, I really hope we follow with ubuntu and switch to lightdm
<charlie-tca> I just don't know if it will be alpha1 or 2
<micahg> mr_pouit: it's supposed to be happening for alpha1
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: we will go to lightdm. We tried really hard last cycle, but things just didn't work out
<xrdodrx> I'd say Canonical helped you guys Grow the Xubuntu Community, lol, a lot of people I know that use ubuntu switched to xubuntu and in fact convinced me too
<charlie-tca> Any thing else we need to discuss?
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: sounds like screensaver related panel issues too?
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: i don't have xscreensaver
<charlie-tca> hm
<charlie-tca> that matters, too
<charlie-tca> I haven't had any panel restarts here
<xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I don't know if this is the right place for this or not but is thunar being slow on initial start a gnome bug?
<xrdodrx> :s/gnome/xubuntu
<charlie-tca> thunar slow in initial start is not gnome
<beardygnome> it happens when i move windows from one workspace to another using the switcher applet
<charlie-tca> it is Xfce, caused by the networking changes
<mr_pouit> xrdodrx: something related to gvfs, but that's still unclear
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: make sure gvfs is running
 * charlie-tca too slow again
<mr_pouit> there's an upstream bug for that, I think it's Xfce #7373
<charlie-tca> xfce bug 7373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 7373 in slocate (Debian) "CAN-2003-0848: heap overflow in slocate" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7373
<micahg> well, natty was the first major bump for xfce since jaunty, and I think it went a lot smoother
<mr_pouit> ubottu: awesomely useless :)
<ubottu> mr_pouit: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<charlie-tca> well! that ain't it
<micahg> xfce 7373
<mr_pouit> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7373 in general "g_file_new_for_uri ("network://") seems to slow down Thunar's startup" [Normal,Assigned]
<charlie-tca> That's it
<xrdodrx> Alright, thanks for making such a good distro, I plan on sticking with it for as long if not longer than I used Ubuntu :)
<charlie-tca> We try hard
<charlie-tca> sometimes more successful than other times
<jozefk> yeah it's seems xubuntu is the way to go :)
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: did you file a bug for the panel thing?
<charlie-tca> You probably should, using ubuntu-bug xfce4-panel, and attach ~/.xsession-errors and /var/log/syslog
<charlie-tca> Thank all of you for participating in this meeting! 
<charlie-tca> It is good to see new people not afraid to show up
<charlie-tca> Let's go ahead and end the meeting and go back to work
<charlie-tca> and by the way, next meeting is Monday May 31, 19:00 UTC, #xubuntu-devel (same place)
<charlie-tca> I may be sorry for that, as it is an American Holiday, but we will see...
<micahg> charlie-tca: working on memorial day? ;)
<charlie-tca> Lot's of these people don't have memorial day, do they?
<micahg> charlie-tca: should be fine
<charlie-tca> That's my thought, although if there is a race on, I will be disappointed
 * xrdodrx marks calendar :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I don't want to step on your toes, would it help you if I request syncs for stuff you update in Debian?
<micahg> relating to Xubuntu specifically
<Soupermanito> sorry to be late to the discussion, but yesterday i installed 11.04 on my sister's laptop, and besides her computer being absolutely no linux friendly, thunar taked a hellalot of time to start and if i tried to open a ntfs drive it will take longer and then will open a 'warning could not mount' or something like that and after i close that it would open the window whit the proper ntfs folder i was trying to open
<scott-work> charlie-tca:  is xubuntu moving to wordpress on your own hosting or are you using canonical hosting?
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: that is part of that bug. I know Xfce is working on that issue, but it might take a bit for fix.
<charlie-tca> scott-work: canonical
<charlie-tca> We finally got a staging site set up by rt, but they won't let us use it
<pleia2> yeah, we need to stage our theme elsewhere and then send it to them to review
<scott-work> charlie-tca:  i'm having trouble getting rt to give others access to the website to even update for releases
<charlie-tca> They seem to be very hard to work with
<charlie-tca> You can not decide who gets access in it?
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, i know i might be the only one here, so it doesnt really matters, but if you can set the next community meetings not on mondays it will allow me to participate more, again, just me, but mondays and thursdays are the only days i have to go to the university, where is where i should be going right now
<Soupermanito> :) good luck to you all people
<pleia2> scott-work: I can give others access
<charlie-tca> Will give some more thought, Soupermanito 
<pleia2> (er, to xubuntu site anyway)
<pleia2> they gave us admin in drupal so we can add users
<Soupermanito> :) thank you charlie-tca have a nice day
<charlie-tca> no problem
<xrdodrx> I agree with Soup|away weekends would be better for me too, but of course it's up to the real devs :)
<charlie-tca> xrdodrx: any weekday that will work? I really don't want to tie up my own weekends
<xrdodrx> ChanServ, tuesday
<charlie-tca> Maybe alternating weeks, Monday and Tuesday, would work. Let me examine things
<xrdodrx> okay :D
<charlie-tca> I will send that to the ML, and see what we can do
<charlie-tca> I would really like to see Xubuntu grow, and to do that, we might have to change things here and there
<charlie-tca> scott-work: Got to be a way to get RT to give you admin for others?
<scott-work> charlie-tca: pleia2: i am only aware of one person who has access to the website and he is not involved except twice a year to change the release news on the website, but he's usually late by two to three weeks
<xrdodrx> charlie-tca, if my friends are any indication interest is definitely on the rise :)
<charlie-tca> That person should be the one that can add you to the access list
<scott-work> charlie-tca: he states that i need to get my own
<scott-work> i have asked for it and they sent it to me but used an old gpg key (which was my fault) but have asked for it to be sent again after i removed all the old gpg keys from launchpad
<scott-work> and that was three or four months ago now
<charlie-tca> scott-work: really? I will rattle some things and see whether or not I can shake it up then.
<scott-work> asked for it = asked for acces with rt
<charlie-tca> scott-work: of course, that may mean nothing. I haven't been able to get the staging site working for us
<scott-work> charlie-tca: lol, but thank you very much though :)
<charlie-tca> scott-work: I think they just put a lot of things off, really
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i imagine they get a lot of requests, some trivial, some not so trivial
<charlie-tca> You are kinder than me
<charlie-tca> but probably more correct, too
<drc> charlie-tca: I assume (yes, I know) that when the A1 milestone is reached that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ will be active for 11.10 nightly build?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> hopefully both daily and daily-live will be active then
<drc> ah...there is a difference....
<charlie-tca> daily-live is the desktop/live cd, daily is the alternate text installer
<drc> OK, I'm in...I have an extra 10 gig I can partition off for testing.
<charlie-tca> Grerat!
<charlie-tca> well, great! too
<charlie-tca> We will not see images until alpha1, normally
<drc> Which do you need more, an "nightly update" testing or a "night install" testing
<charlie-tca> install will fail more often for us, update fails more often because of something Ubuntu did
<drc> OK...install it is
<charlie-tca> I will upgrade to Oneiric on my production machine for alpha1, which lets me test the upgrade.
<charlie-tca> I will then be using Oneiric until the next cycle
<drc> I am assuming that a LiveUSB install will work (I can't afford to burn a new dvd every night)
<charlie-tca> We hope so
<drc> We'll test that too, then
<charlie-tca> I usually go through over 100 cd-r's per cycle
<charlie-tca> oops, 200
<pleia2> grub2 supports booting from isos, I've had very good luck installing grub2 on a usb stick and using the pristine isos
<charlie-tca> I start each cycle with 200 here, and usually have to buy more
<pleia2> no converting to usb stick
<charlie-tca> older hardware, doesn't support usb boots
<pleia2> yeah, you do have to have a machine can boot from usb (or a floppy drive to make it do so)
<pleia2> we use the floppy disk trick for some machines at a school that won't pxe boot, but there are a lot of systems which are too new for floppy drives and too old for usb sticks
<drc> Here's my hardware specs:  http://pastebin.com/fb8087Uq
<drc> og, I forgot to tae out the Intel video (I have the nvidia)
<charlie-tca> Great system for testing
<drc> no I didn't...I forgot to take out the <or> :(
<charlie-tca> Can you add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers
<charlie-tca> I will have to update it for natty, I see.
<drc> This was one of the first system that Dell pre-installed Ubuntu on...if X/Ubuntu won't work on this ststem something is wrong/changed.
<charlie-tca> Very slight differences, but I have seen some of those that won't work well with the devel releases
<drc> Well, we'll know that too, then :)
<charlie-tca> yup
<drc> charlie-tca: Request submitted
<charlie-tca> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-24
<geoffrian> hello chaps
<Unit193> I just wanted to pint this bug #784020 to https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03803.html (If you read her comment, you will see what I'm talking about)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784020 in Xubuntu Website "download page lies about disk size requirements" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784020
<charlie-tca> It already installs in 3GB without modifying anything. 
<charlie-tca> I have to try for 2GB yet, but that won't fix the installer, will it?
<charlie-tca> The bug is because the installer insists that the install won't work in anything less then 4.4gb, which is wrong for anything except Ubuntu
<Unit193> charlie-tca: jmarsden built the iso with that mod
<Unit193> (If you want to read the whole thread)
<charlie-tca> I see that. But I used the natty final to install in less then 4gb
<charlie-tca> I just ignored the warning that said I needed 4.4GB
<charlie-tca> But I will investigate further with a 4gb drive. That will be a better test
<Unit193> https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03786.html Says you can't ignore that... (I haven't tested that myself)
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm not trying to put more work on you, I'm just linking both issues
<Unit193> Not an easy way to do so anyway...
<charlie-tca> I am happy to have the reference. We might need it yet
<charlie-tca> Since I had a 40GB drive to work with, it might matter
<charlie-tca> Both distros need to be able to use less than 4GB, so we will have to try and find a way. 
<pleia2> Unit193: thanks for the update :)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: can you create a separate bug for this? (it's a bit off-topic for the xubuntu-website bug)
<Unit193> If I can help, I would like to (Not a programmer). I may give the ISO testing a shot...
<pleia2> I don't think it's something that can be fixed for natty, but hopefully it can be looked into for the next release
<charlie-tca> pleia2: yup, can do
<pleia2> looks like Unit193 updated 18:38:06 < Unit193> I just wanted to pint this bug #784020 to https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg03803.html (If you read her comment, you will see what I'm 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784020 in Xubuntu Website "download page lies about disk size requirements" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784020
<pleia2> oops
<pleia2> looks like looks like Unit193 updated #784020 for us with some details :)
<charlie-tca> no problem. I can fix that too when I file the new bug
 * charlie-tca can't really see good enough tonight, will fix it tomorrow though
 * Unit193 Wasn't sure if that would count as a bug update...
<pleia2> no rush, thanks!
<pleia2> airplane wifi really is too slow for ssh, detatching
<charlie-tca> Unit193: it is fine. I will transfer the information to the new bug
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> Enjoy the flight
<pleia2> thanks :)
<Unit193> screen over country dial-up is a real killer...
<charlie-tca> Unit193: don't let me forget the bug now
<charlie-tca> Gotta go for tonight.
<Unit193> Linked to the bug at the same time in #lubuntu-offtopic (Doubles as -devel) and It's been updated: Bug #784020
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784020 in Xubuntu Website "ubiquity doubles stated filesystem size requirements" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784020
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, you don't step on my toes, feel free to request syncs (probably all panel plugins can be synced) :)
<mr_pouit> thanks
<mr_pouit> micahg: also, if you find some ubuntu delta, maybe I forgot to include it in debian, so feel free to ping me about that as well.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<drc> Morning...where's the coffee?
<charlie-tca> I got mine
 * charlie-tca puts a new pot of coffee on
<charlie-tca> Sorry, drained the pot
<drc> That's all right...I'm really a tea drinker, but as long as it has caffine....
<charlie-tca> heh, no tea here
<charlie-tca> but I got a cookie for you
 * charlie-tca passes cookies around
<drc> Sorry, I had to change a config to accept cookies...ummmm
<charlie-tca> Maybe Soupermanito wants one too
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> We passed a plate of cookies around, help yourself. They go good with the morning coffee
<Soupermanito> hey charlie-tca :D good morning, yesterday i had General Information Sources class XD
<Soupermanito> so i had to go
<charlie-tca> no problem
<drc> Soupermanito: Which University?
<charlie-tca> I don't know if we can hold a meeting more than once a month on tuesday, maybe we can do it on Friday, though. 
<Soupermanito> University of Buenos Aires, Argentina
<charlie-tca> minutes are out, by the way
<Soupermanito> will check
<Soupermanito> question, if i test a milestone, will you want a x86 or an x86_64 to be tested?
<drc> So that means that Soupermanito is officially on the hook for testing?
<Soupermanito> :) i will try to do it yes, i hope my internets are whit me in this
 * drc notes that he waited until *after* the meeting to volunteer.
 * Soupermanito notes that he actually asked during the meet.
<drc> charlie-tca: on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers it asks you to add your info, but I have no idea how to add it, can't find the <add> button:)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: whichever one you are able to test. Not everyone can test both arches
<charlie-tca> It is an edit of the wiki. Email it to me and I will add it. charlie AT ubuntu DOT com
<Soupermanito> another thing i was thinking while walking yesterday is that when i installed 11.04 the other day and played an mp3, parole said me "no codecs" or something like that, and i was hoping it to be like the old releases that would instantly send me to download the proper codecs, but nothing hapened, i had to download them manually, which is rather obnoxious, even more if you are new to *buntu
<charlie-tca> I did not anything except VLC would automatically download the codecs
<charlie-tca> Soupermanito: my internet is a bit slow. It takes me about 6 hours to zsync the images now
<charlie-tca> and the dvd's I sync take between 4 and 6 hours additional
<Soupermanito> well my internets are also slow, it takes me about 2 hours to download 700mb, if lucky
 * charlie-tca tests Ubuntu alternate and desktop, Xubuntu alternate and desktop, ubuntustudio alternate dvd's, kubuntu desktop and alternate - both 32bit and 64bit
<charlie-tca> Download the images over the weekend before release. Even if they are natty, they can be zsynced quickly
<charlie-tca> !zsync
<Soupermanito> that did nothing
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> !info zsync
<ubottu> zsync (source: zsync): client-side implementation of the rsync algorithm. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.1-3ubuntu1 (natty), package size 98 kB, installed size 244 kB
<charlie-tca> That is a bit faster than rsync now
<Soupermanito> ok installing
<charlie-tca> This explains zsync - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ZsyncCdImage
<Soupermanito> :D hey charlie-tca you are the xubuntu project leader? :D xubuntu is awesome
<charlie-tca> yes, I am
<drc> charlie-tca: Approximately how long does the short&long testing take (just for scheduling, mind you)?
<drc> charlie-tca: email is sent
<charlie-tca> short is about 10 minutes, long can be anywhere between 10 minutes and 1 hour, depending on how many applications you run
<charlie-tca> I normally test one application each time I run the live desktop and one each install I do
<charlie-tca> That way, I spend just a few minutes to test them, since the install will take up to an hour to complete
<charlie-tca> If I seem short of time, I will run through a menu at a time, so one install will include all the applications in Accessories
<Soupermanito> charlie-tca, i have an old ide 4.3GB drive, will you like me to use it for testing? I ask because i saw you talking about limit sized during installs
<charlie-tca> We are only testing the default installation stuff, so it isn't too bad
<charlie-tca> It is not necessary. We try to test something like that for the final images only
<drc> OK, what I think I'll  do, if it acceptable, is test/install one (live/alternate, 32/64) each day, that way I'll more than cover the spectrum each week?
<charlie-tca> Things change too much until then
<charlie-tca> That would be great, drc
<charlie-tca> And keep in mind, part of testing is actually reporting bugs. 
<charlie-tca> I wait 24 hours to report them, normally. Many of the installer bugs get fixed within that time, so it save some work.
<charlie-tca> We will also many days that the images are oversize and don't fit on a cd. That is expected too.
<drc> The site says to report daily testing to the mail list...is there a template for reporting?
<charlie-tca> no, it needs updating. Mainly, we would like you to tell us here if anything fails
<drc> OK, that's easy
<charlie-tca> Also, persistent fails, like more than a couple of days, we will track carefully
<charlie-tca> Just slap me with a wet trout if I don't respond to you
 * davmor2 readies frozen trout by splashing it with water
<Soupermanito> booo xchat doenst have a /slap command
 * charlie-tca wasn't thinking of a frozen trout, fresh would be much better
<charlie-tca> frozen is like a hammer!
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks, I'll try to do a round of syncs tonight
<drc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4
<charlie-tca> micahg: thanks for helping out! It's good to see someone else helping mr_pouit.
<micahg> charlie-tca: happy to do it, maybe it'll fix some of my issues with xubuntu on oneiric as well
<davmor2> charlie-tca: You're just no fun anymore :D
<charlie-tca> You get hit with a frozen trout, you won't be much fun either ;-)
<drc> davmor2: you know how it is when someone gets promoted to management :)
<charlie-tca> lol
<davmor2> charlie-tca: haha
<davmor2> drc: so true
 * charlie-tca thinks the block of ice might have something to do with it :-)
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I can bake it solid if it's only the cold that puts you off ;)
<charlie-tca> hehe
<charlie-tca> I guess I would prefer the cold
<Soupermanito> you can install *buntu to playstation 3 :O
<drc> Using zsync, will there be a problem if one is zsync'ing (is that a even a verb?) an iso every 4 days instead of daily?
<charlie-tca> no, it just will take a lot longer
<charlie-tca> since the image can be changed completely within 4 days, it might be faster to download a new image
<Soupermanito> so adding a cron activity to run zsync is recomended?
<charlie-tca> I don't use cron for it
<micahg> ugh, xubuntu on oneiric pulls in unity now due to the gnome-session dep
 * drc get out the garlic, holy water and stakes
<ochosi> lol
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> takes a while to get that straightened out
<charlie-tca> why do we have a gnome-session dependency?
<micahg> oh, haha, I don't think it's from xubuntu
<charlie-tca> That's why I am waiting to upgrade
<micahg> oh, yeah, I think there's a dependency chain, but it's long
<charlie-tca> probably something to sort out around alpha2 if it is still there
<drc> OK...off to re-partition this machine for a testing partition.  Haven't tried dual booting in years and years and years...and then it was not a pleasant task.  Back in a while, if it's successful, later if not.
<charlie-tca> just let it install grub to the sda, if you don't have windows. I don't really know if you do have windows
<charlie-tca> oops
 * charlie-tca too late again
<Unit193> charlie-tca: There has been major changes to the bug report...
<pleia2> yeah :( since we didn't create a new one it's now marked as invalid for the website
<pleia2> actually, just for ubiquity
<charlie-tca> It is okay to have both packages in the same report, as long we do add both
<charlie-tca> yes, it is invalid for upstream ubiquity
<pleia2> it really should be made into a new bug if we want to file it though, the original bug is *just* a documentation one for the iste
<pleia2> site
<charlie-tca> valid for website and ubuntu ubiquity
<pleia2> is the website still wrong?
<pleia2> I think it's correct for natty
<charlie-tca> It is correct for the wording on the cd
<pleia2> we should probably drop the website from the bug then
<pleia2> this is very confusing :)
<charlie-tca> We can just sign the website task off as fix-released
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> there :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<Unit193> jmarsden kinda took that over...
<charlie-tca> yes he did
<Soupermanito> http://imagebin.org/154869
<Soupermanito> oh wait not here
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-25
<ochosi> mr_pouit: did you see xfce bug 7564 is marked as resolved? maybe that would be something worth backporting/pushing to natty...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 7564 in Ubuntu "cupsd is not started on the Warty live CD" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7564
<ochosi> darn you, ubottu 
<ochosi> i mean xfce 7564
<ochosi> meh :/
<mr_pouit> ochosi: no, I didn't =]
<ochosi> well, it's brand new anyway
<mr_pouit> yeah, it's probably worth  doing smothing to natty
<ochosi> but it would be pretty cool if indicators would support vertical panels
<mr_pouit> can you file a bug on LP about that?
<ochosi> i think xfce would be the first DE to sport that feature
<mr_pouit> otherwise it'll get lost
<ochosi> sure, np
<ochosi> mr_pouit: bug 787977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787977 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "doesn't support vertical panel layout" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787977
<mr_pouit> thanks
<ochosi> np
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> good morning charlie-tca 
 * drc hands charlie-tca a cuppa...noting that tea has been added to the menu.
<charlie-tca> Thank you, drc
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu daily, daily-live, and ubuntu-server images for oneiric are available from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/
<drc> Oh darn...time to go to work :(
<charlie-tca> No, you are waiting for Xubuntu images
<drc> oh...yeah...I'm just so used to people saying "I installed Ubuntu" for all three flavors
 * drc returns to his dozing.
 * drc suddenly wakes up, thinking he'll just DL it anyway, just to see if common things like the "activated but not in use" bug is still there.
<charlie-tca> These are the first images, most bugs will not fixed yet
<drc> I know, but I'm bored...and who knows?
<drc> Maybe I'll like Unity so much now, I'll switch.
<charlie-tca> hehheh
<drc> No really, I *want* to like Unity, I just...can't.
 * drc checks to make sure the Get Off My Lawn sign is still up.
<charlie-tca> I do like unity! I just don't like to use it for me
<drc> "Oh no! Something has gone wrong."
<drc> 32 bit Oneiric won't even boot to the try/install screen...something about /run/udev not writable (error message flashes to fast to read all of it).
<micahg> drc: it should fall back to /dev/.udev
<drc> Well, considering it's not even alpha yet...not to shabby :)
<drc> micahg: It boots to a screen with the "Oh no!" message, with what looks like an incomplete nautilus window on to of it (you can close that window)
<drc> One day down, only 150 to go.
 * drc has had a very tiring day now...decides to take a nap.
<charlie-tca> \o/
<charlie-tca> still need to get word, I guess - "didn't knwo xubuntu 11.04 was already out! great, thanks"
<drc> charlie-tca: No, that was <U>buntu Oneiric.
<charlie-tca> what was?
<charlie-tca> the tiring day?
<drc> Never mind, I thought you were replying to my "Oh no!" series.
<charlie-tca> oh,
<charlie-tca> no, that was a comment from another channel
<drc> ohhhh...multichanneling...how cool ;)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: the bugfix for the indicators was just uploaded to -proposed
<ochosi> yay! :)
<ochosi> that means that vertical panels will work _a lot_ better than before, even better than in maverick
<drc> Yeah Redux...er...that was bug 	759312, correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759312 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce-indicator-plugin requires more space on panel than necessary" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759312
<ochosi> drc: no, it's bug 787977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787977 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu Natty) "doesn't support vertical panel layout" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787977
<drc> rats!
<ochosi> drc: what you have to uninstall to get rid of the envelope is "indicator-messages"
<ochosi> it always worked for me
<ochosi> (meaning i can't confirm your bug)
<ochosi> drc: after uninstalling the indicator-messages package you obviously need a "xfce4-panel --restart"
<drc> ochosi: no, it goes away automagically soon after I use pidgin the first time (at least I think that's the when, so systematic testing...Maybe I'll do that sometime during my daily tests).  But after it goes away, the spacing is all messed up (re: 759312)	
<drc> ochosi: The spacing is *still* off after...how many reboots has it been since I files it?
<ochosi> drc so you really uninstalled indicator-messages? (uninstalling gwibber is not enough), your /usr/lib/indicators kinda suggests otherwise...
<ochosi> reboots shouldn't change much, restarting the panel should be fine for the indicators
<drc> No...let me see if I can explain it a little better.
<ochosi> sure, go ahead
<drc> When I first started with xubuntu, gwibber was installed by default.  I usually uninstalled it early in my config process (I never used it and did not like the indicator being present).
<drc> This resulted in the spacing proiblem I indicated.
<drc> Since then, gwibber appears to not be installed by default, but the "envelope" is still present (with a pidgin message).
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i understand all that
<drc> The envelope now goes away (after some unspecified time, but I *think* it's relatively soon after using pidgin the first time, and rebooting).  The spacing problem is, however still there.
<drc> Using a "light" theme (say clearlooks), one can detect what looks like a spacing holder in the inidicators.  I'll do a screenshot and post it in just a moment.
<ochosi> drc: i know the "spacing" problem
<ochosi> no need for the screenshot
<drc> ok...then what am I not telling you that you need to know? ")
<ochosi> open a terminal, what does "sudo apt-get remove indicator-messages" say? :)
<drc> duh!
<drc> The indicator messages was removed....I did a "xfce4-panel --restart" and the spacing problem was fixed.
<ochosi> k, then you know what you have to write in your bugreport ;)
<drc> Yup, but the question remains...without removing the indicator-messages, why does the "envelope" disappear, but the spacing remain?
<drc> Not that it matters, just curious
<ochosi> i assume because there's nothing the indicator can show. you could try the same in ubuntu, wondering what would happen there
<ochosi> in fact it's a teensy bit better to not show the envelope when there are no apps installed that use it than showing it
<ochosi> but i agree that maybe it should either be completely hidden or completely shown
<ochosi> so basically you can confirm the bug but explain how to "fix"/workaround it
 * drc is trying to figure out how to word this so he doesn't look totally stupid :)
<ochosi> hehe
<drc> ochosi: Could this have something to do with the fact the I never stared pidgin thru the indicatore but always used the menu/icon on the panel?
<ochosi> nope, not as far as my experience goes
<ochosi> wait, i think you're talking about two different bugs here
<ochosi> one is: if there are no apps using indicator-messages but the package is still installed, there is some empty spacing
<ochosi> the other is: for some reason the envelope appears/disappears randomely when pidgin is installed
<ochosi> did i get that right now?
<drc> Almost
<drc> Gotta run for about 5 min...puppy wants out...NOW 
<ochosi> k, good luck with that
<ochosi> gotta go too
<ochosi> see you around
<drc> Back...and see you later.
<foobar> Hi :)
<foobar> Where should I report a bug concerning xfapplet? At xfce or launchpad?
<foobar> After installation on one PC only stock-market quotation can be chosen and on the other system none...
<foobar> Both systems running Xubuntu 11.04
<micahg> foobar: ubuntu-bug xfce4-xfapplet-plugin
<foobar> Thanks micahg - I'll post it there.
<foobar> Have a nice day.
<drc> Well, that was interesting...never installed from the ALT series before...why does everyone think an ncurses install is "hard"?
<drc> BTW, Ubuntu Alt64 install get the same /run/udev notwritable error (although it does try to fall back to .udev (?)
<Soupermanito> i installed from alt the other day, had to use another live cd to use gparted, which is ghey if ask me
<drc> I never had to repartition...I just used my existing testing partition and formated, so I can't speak to that.
<micahg_> BTW, lightdm seems to work great ATM
<charlie-tca> Glad to hear that
<charlie-tca> me and Luke are up for insuring it is fully accessible in Oneiric, too
<charlie-tca> We promised at UDS that it will be
<micahg_> same list of users as default GDM ATM, hopefully we can make that a preference
 * micahg_ also has to add some stuff to the Firefox apparmor profile for it
<Soupermanito> micahg, does lightdm allows user pictures to be added?
<micahg> Soupermanito: no idea
<Soupermanito> mmmkay
<Soupermanito> thanks anyway
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> it will use html and css too
<Soupermanito> :D that is awesome
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-26
<charlie-tca> ochosi: when I middle click on the desktop, I get a menu list of all open workspaces and the apps open in them. Unfortunately, the apps are in dark grey on the default menu background
<charlie-tca> ochosi: thanks for doing the SRU. It is great when things work, isn't it?
<micahg> need anything sponsored?
<charlie-tca> no, got stephane graber on it
<micahg> cool, I'm in the middle of other stuff anyways :)
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/787977
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 787977 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu Natty) "doesn't support vertical panel layout" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<micahg> yeah, I saw that one go in
<charlie-tca> micahg: thanks for keeping an eye out for us, though.
<micahg> heh, I had a chat with robert_ancell this evening who is interested in our experiences with the lightdm API
<charlie-tca> Good. I would like to keep him somewhat informed so it doesn't get turned into a Unity only thing now.
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, that would be as bad as GDM, I believe he wants it to be so everyone can make their own greeter
<charlie-tca> I know that is the intent, but it is easy to get caught up in the main distro, and leave the rest behind
<charlie-tca> If we are at least talking to him, he knows we need some help at times, too.
<charlie-tca> I pushed for lightdm at UDS, so he knew I planned to use it.
<charlie-tca> If I understand things though, he would prefer each group prepare their own backend for lightdm?
<charlie-tca> or is it frontend?
<charlie-tca> I don't know now. I have to rest for a few hours.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> about the workspaces-bug, thanks for reporting that
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<ochosi> i never use the middle-click menu, so i didn't notice
<charlie-tca> I didn't know about it until my two-year grandson hit the stupid button
<ochosi> i'm not quite sure why it happens though, and the menu is a bit hard to track (since it's directly on the desktop)
<ochosi> i guess i'll have to dive into the xfdeskop code a bit
<charlie-tca> but, if it works right, we really could get rid of workspaces completely, right?
<ochosi> how do you mean?
<charlie-tca> If you can hit the middle button of the mouse to see the workspaces, add workspaces, delete workspaces, you don't need the workspace applet on the panel anymore
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, we could get rid of that if we want to
<ochosi> the functionality is in the menu as well
<charlie-tca> I see it as makeing the panel a little easier to use, then
<ochosi> (even if not as apparent as in the panel)
<charlie-tca> right, but I can still write a couple of articles that says you can do it that way, and there is always the wiki to add a page if we want to
<ochosi> true
<charlie-tca> I just don't want to hide workspaces completely from people
<ochosi> btw, i was thinking an article about vertical panels in xubuntu/xfce might be a nice thing
<ochosi> since the indicator-plugin patch will land in natty
<charlie-tca> That would be great if they work now
<charlie-tca> Vertical panels have always been a bit of a problem
<ochosi> at least if one enables "proposed" it should be ok
<ochosi> actually with the indicators working now there's only one panel-plugin that doesn't work as expected in a vertical panel and that's the session menu
<charlie-tca> I will grab the file and verify it then, and we can have it in natty updates within about 10 days
<ochosi> the rest is really great
<ochosi> yeah, sounds good
<charlie-tca> I never expected it to happen quite that fast. Usually we are on the bottom of the list for devs to do things.
<ochosi> don't think it was just because of us
<ochosi> but Mark__T responded really really fast, that's true
<ochosi> pretty great move i'd say
<charlie-tca> and to have sgraber to pick it up and finish the sru, too
<ochosi> yep
<ochosi> that was another reason to write the article, to be able to thank them somehow
<ochosi> but what we're really lacking is a platform for that
<charlie-tca> we are making gains in small steps with everybody these days
<ochosi> obviously a lot of website stuff is pending on the move to wordpress
<charlie-tca> Yeah, we have to just write the article and push it through news for now
<charlie-tca> yes, and IS did not make it any easier for us
<ochosi> yeah, that is a very frustrating situation
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> all the way around, too
<ochosi> back at square one
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether moving to some other hosting might be easier
<charlie-tca> It would need funding, wouldn't it?
<ochosi> i assume so, or just some sabdfl
<ochosi> universities might be an option
<charlie-tca> also, Canonical owns the name
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> not sure the name-thing is a problem if we only switch hosting
<charlie-tca> They would have to give us permission to move the domain
<charlie-tca> That was a pot I preferred not to stir up
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: where/what are the seeds for Xubuntu cd's? I need to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<drc> Well, it appears that Oneiric 64LiveCD install now has a "blue screen of death".
<charlie-tca> Gaining, huh?
<drc> Boots thru the "UBUNTU DOT DOT DOT" screen to a ubuntu backgound, then to a blue screen where dies
<charlie-tca> There was over 50% changed today
<charlie-tca> VBox, or hardware?
<drc> No, yesterday it mae it to a "OH no! Something bad has happened" screen. Today it didn't make it that far (or maybe it made it past that, can't tell)
<drc> liveUSB to hdd
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, USB has issues today
<drc> Would it make a difference if I used unetbootin onstead of the ubuntu liveusb creater?
<drc> Hope they get the USB problem fixed before Xubuntu starts nightly builds, I only have about 3 cd's in the house.
<charlie-tca> you might try unetbootin. It worked for me in natty when usbcreator would not
<drc> will do
<drc> Well, unetbootin got it to the "Oh no!" screen.
<drc> There's always tomorrow....
<charlie-tca> yup
<drc> They have 4 days to fix it :)
<charlie-tca> well.... technically. Sometimes we don't get USB to work for a few weeks
<drc> Looks like I'm gonna have to make a trip to Best Buy.
<charlie-tca> give it a day yet
<drc> I'll give it until the 31st (we are still on tack for that?)
<charlie-tca> um, no
<charlie-tca> It could be wednesday before we get an image
<charlie-tca> I have to go day by day right now
<charlie-tca> We don't expect an image before monday, at least, right now
<drc> 100 pack of CD's are only USD15 now...I really should get out more.
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> seems high, though
<charlie-tca> I watch for them at $10.00 whenever possible
<drc> The sale ads come out Sunday :)
<charlie-tca> My limit is $15.00, when I really have to pay that much
<drc> Did the cd install work for you today?
<charlie-tca> Haven't tried
<charlie-tca> still updating natty to work bugs
<charlie-tca> My great 155kbps here
<drc> sneaker net?
<charlie-tca> two computers working it, drops it down to about 80 on each one
<charlie-tca> no, qwest dsl
<charlie-tca> I don't even have the zsyncs done yet. But they only been going for 3 hours, too
<charlie-tca> looks like we got server images today
<drc> Yesterday's DT stamp
<drc> lemme steal a cd from my daughter and I'll try that with live64
<drc> hmm...got rid of the iso already, well, in another 10 minutes I try it.
<charlie-tca> We don't expect much until next week
<drc> I just want to see if it will even get to the Try/Install screen.
<drc> Like I said, I'm bored (and avoiding Honey-Do lists)
<charlie-tca> trying in VBox
<drc> Never used VBox (or any varitaion of the concept)...I don't even like dual boot systems.
<charlie-tca> I learned to like VBox, since I can easily install any image, screw things up, and then just reinstall to have a fresh start again. All without losing my real system
<drc> I should look at it then, maybe tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that....
<charlie-tca> That's a pretty blue, anyway ;-)
<drc> You got it VBox?
<drc> I though it was Kubuntu for a moment.
<drc> If I got it with USB and you got it with VBOX, I don't think I'm going to waste a CD.
<drc> Wonder if we should publicize this...make everyone know we are catching up to MS's Blue Screen of Death?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-27
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Good morning, charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> images are out! Xubuntu has alternate images today, but they oversized for a cd-r
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: daily-live images failed today, maybe tomorrow?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: where/what are the seeds for Xubuntu cd's? I need to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<charlie-tca> images are out! Xubuntu has alternate images today, but they oversized for a cd-r
<charlie-tca> daily-live/desktop images are not out yet
<drc> Ok Mom, I'm up! I'm up! :)
<drc> hmm...fixed the usb problem yet?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> bug 789152
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789152 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When booting an ISO, "try or install" dialog doesn't start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789152
<Unit193>  /idiot question. Would it make sense to add https://launchpad.net/libnotify-mozilla by default? (Does to me)
<drc> I'll second that.
<charlie-tca> for?
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd rather wait what happens with the announced thunderbird-unity integration
<ochosi> charlie-tca: for the messaging indicator
<Unit193> ochosi: Ok! I was just asking. /me :x
<charlie-tca> micahg will have a better answer than I would
<ochosi> true, micahg is our inside-guy for mozilla ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: how well does the tb-indicator work?
<Unit193> ochosi: Seems to be working just fine (Compose work, there is a place for contacts and it tells you how many msgs you have)
<Unit193> +new
<ochosi> k, was just wondering because there seem to be quite many open bugs
<Unit193> It doesn't work to click the box with the new mail (It doesn't go to that box, it only brings t-bird up)
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> tbh the whole indicator concept is a bit problematic with xubuntu/xfce
<charlie-tca> yup
<drc> orly?
<ochosi> since there is no "close-to-tray" functionality by design, it sucks a bit, because thunderbird would have to be open and in the window-list
<charlie-tca> xfce4-notifyd was the cause of the desktop images failing today
<ochosi> so in fact it's basically just an additional icon. in unity it kinda makes sense, because the programmes are in the windowlist/dock persistently anyway
<ochosi> i think we should come up with some kind of solution for that in oneiric
<ochosi> but i don't think xfce-panel will support a dock-mode anytime soon
<ochosi> (and an additional dock, e.g. docky, makes no sense because what happens with the huge empty panel on the top)
<drc> Well, that (11.10 ALT64 install) didn't work.
<charlie-tca> where did it fail?
<drc> "The fialing step is: Select and install software"
<drc> Well, failing *was* spelled correctly :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: you will have arm imx images this cycle!
<pleia2> what devices run it?
<charlie-tca> the notebook computers, I think is it
<charlie-tca> micahg and cody-somerville both have them
<pleia2> nice
<charlie-tca> They look like pocket pc's to me, but I don't think that is correct
<drc> charlie-tca: Want me to report that to the ML or wait until the alpha stage begins?
<charlie-tca> wait for now
<drc> ok
<charlie-tca> will tell you when to verify for me. I will test them too, in a bit, to get the failures and see if we can fix them
<drc> tea break, after all that hard, dirty manual labor (well, manual partition that is)
<charlie-tca> understand
<micahg> charlie-tca: cool, thanks!
<micahg> pleia2: here's the device I have that I plan to run xubuntu on: http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook
<pleia2> micahg: shiny :)
 * drc sometimes wants his 3 year old laptop to break so he can justify getting something new.
<charlie-tca> testing is justification. You dedicate the old machine to it, and need a new one to be able to report the results
<drc> You don't know my wife :(
<pleia2> I'll tell my boyfriend that when I walk in the door with a new computer
<pleia2> I'm *sure* he'll agree!
<pleia2> ;)
<charlie-tca> Of course. It is very logical
<drc> charlie-tca: Like I said, you don't know my wife.
<charlie-tca> Must be one of those "reasonable" types then... :-)
<drc> Remind me to tell you the story of her and her dropping a fortran card deck on the way to the machine room some day.
<charlie-tca> Can't really argue with reasonable people
<charlie-tca> ouch
<drc> Took her 30 years to get over her antaganism to computers.
<charlie-tca> I can understand that
<charlie-tca> That would not have been a fun time
<drc> Nope, even though I *begged* her to use a blue felt pen to number them.
<charlie-tca> I didn't think that was allowed ;-)
<drc> The hardest part was not laughing, really really hard to do.
<charlie-tca> lol
<drc> see!
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Did you use encrypted home for the failed install today?
<drc> nope
<charlie-tca> going to have start syncing earlier, I guess. 3 1/2 hours and 4 images to sync yet
<drc> I could DL them here, jump in the card and drive to Idaho...'bout the same time?
<drc> er....car, not card
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> Of course, it will get faster when they stop changing quite so much, us
<charlie-tca> usually right after alpha1 it improves
<charlie-tca> right now, it is still close to 50% each day
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Xubuntu alternate images fail to install - The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 in-target:  xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon
<drc> charlie-tca: I just got word that my sister (in CA) is ill, so I'm going to out of the loop for the next few days, while I drive out there.  Not sure what their net is like, so I may be out for a long week or so.  Sorry about the timing, but....
 * drc decides to race his drive to CA with charlie-tca's daily syncing :)
<drc> laters all
#xubuntu-devel 2011-05-28
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: daily-live images failed today, maybe tomorrow?
<charlie-tca> <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: where/what are the seeds for Xubuntu cd's? I need to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^   ^    ^ 
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: is this blueprint complete? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-doc-packaging
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: alternate oneiric images fail to install, the following is in /var/log/syslog:
<charlie-tca> : The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 in-target:  xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 in-target: E: Broken packages
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 in-target: tasksel: aptitude failed (100)
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 main-menu[265]: WARNING **: Configuring 'pkgsel' failed with error code 1
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:01:25 main-menu[265]: WARNING **: Menu item 'pkgsel' failed.
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:10:52 main-menu[265]: INFO: Modifying debconf priority limit from 'high' to 'medium'
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:10:52 debconf: Setting debconf/priority to medium
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:10:53 main-menu[265]: DEBUG: resolver (libnewt0.52): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:10:53 main-menu[265]: DEBUG: resolver (ext2-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> May 27 17:10:53 main-menu[265]: DEBUG: resolver (efi-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: daily-live images failed today. We need to fix for alpha1.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: where/what are the seeds for Xubuntu cd's? I need to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: is this blueprint complete? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-doc-packaging
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: alternate oneiric images fail to install, the following is in /var/log/syslog:
<charlie-tca> : The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon
<charlie-tca> E: Broken packages
<charlie-tca> tasksel: aptitude failed (100)
<charlie-tca> WARNING **: Configuring 'pkgsel' failed with error code 1
<charlie-tca> WARNING **: Menu item 'pkgsel' failed.
<charlie-tca> INFO: Modifying debconf priority limit from 'high' to 'medium'
<charlie-tca> Setting debconf/priority to medium
<charlie-tca> DEBUG: resolver (libnewt0.52): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> DEBUG: resolver (ext2-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> DEBUG: resolver (efi-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hmm, pastebin?
<charlie-tca> Been tryijng to get an anser for three days now
<charlie-tca> a might bit frustrated with no response, I think.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> guess lionel isn't around much atm
<charlie-tca> I guess not :-(
<charlie-tca> In the meantime, we do need to get this fixed
<charlie-tca> <jimrew> xubuntu is very good :-)
<Soupermanito> :D
<Soupermanito> because it is
<Soupermanito> except 11.04, what whit that
<charlie-tca> what's wrong with it?
<Soupermanito> thunar :(
<Soupermanito> is so slow
<Soupermanito> it does weird things, opens twice or four times
<charlie-tca> bug numbers?
<Soupermanito> takes a hella lot to load 
<Soupermanito> bug?
<charlie-tca> bug.
<Soupermanito> ._. 
 * Soupermanito doesnt know about bug numbers
<charlie-tca> Things seldom get fixed based on talk
<charlie-tca> we file bugs using launchpad. just open a terminal, type ubuntu-bug PACKAGE
<charlie-tca> it is easy
<charlie-tca> The Thunar bug has a fix already, though. It will be in Oneiric, and maybe we can backport it Natty.
<charlie-tca> I don't know anything about opening apps two or four times, though
<Soupermanito> :/
<Soupermanito> now it works
<Soupermanito> it opens just one window really fast
<charlie-tca> heh, of course. Things always straighten up when threatened with bug filing.
<Soupermanito> but now i didnt try to open the folder while updating perl modules
<Soupermanito> ok! trying to install koha again :D
<charlie-tca> no wonder it doesn't like you ;-)
<Soupermanito> XD
<Soupermanito> hey charlie-tca :P
<Soupermanito> what can you get from this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/614291
<charlie-tca> didn't set up apache config files correctly, and need to put a domain name in /etc/hosts
<charlie-tca> 127.0.0.1	wecan	localhost.localdomain	localhost
<charlie-tca> wecan is the domain, but it can also use localhost
<charlie-tca> I usually ignore that error
<charlie-tca> I did remove my apache web server completely, for lack of time and energy to keep making it work
<Soupermanito> jo
<Soupermanito> http://paste.ubuntu.com/613333
<Soupermanito> :(
<Soupermanito> i will have to install debian
<Soupermanito> to install the .deb package
<Soupermanito> because this sucks
<Soupermanito> but i dont want to
<Soupermanito> i want to learn to do this
<charlie-tca> you might need the server team to help with that. #ubuntu-server, and they might feed you to the fish
<Soupermanito> mmm
<Soupermanito> ok will ask
<Soupermanito> thanks charlie-tca 
<Soupermanito> XD
<Soupermanito> lol
<Soupermanito> you know what the problem was?
<charlie-tca> nope
<Soupermanito> i hadn't created the koha database on MySQL
<Soupermanito> XD
<charlie-tca> why would I send you if I knew/
<charlie-tca> ouch
<Soupermanito> so ofcourse it would fail
<Soupermanito> lol
<charlie-tca> See, they can be nice, huh :-)
<Soupermanito> :P
<Soupermanito> luckly people at #koha in irc.ofct.com helped me 
<Soupermanito> XD
<Soupermanito> they answered before tho
<Soupermanito> :D
<Soupermanito> yeah
<Soupermanito> things work now
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: daily-live images failed today. We need to fix for alpha1 next week.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: where/what are the seeds for Xubuntu cd's? I need to add them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseManifest
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: is this blueprint complete? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-doc-packaging
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: alternate oneiric images fail to install, the following is in /var/log/syslog:
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: xfce4-notifyd : Conflicts: notification-daemon
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: E: Broken packages
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: tasksel: aptitude failed (100)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: WARNING **: Configuring 'pkgsel' failed with error code 1
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: WARNING **: Menu item 'pkgsel' failed.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: INFO: Modifying debconf priority limit from 'high' to 'medium'
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Setting debconf/priority to medium
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: DEBUG: resolver (libnewt0.52): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: DEBUG: resolver (ext2-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: DEBUG: resolver (efi-modules): package doesn't exist (ignored)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-21
<ochosi> bluesabre_laptop: ping
<ochosi> bluesabre: ping :)
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> btw, just uploaded a few fixes
<ochosi> ah nice
<ochosi> gotta pull again then :)
<bluesabre> everything that's currently in there should be working as expected at this point
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> how're you determining whether something is an application?
<ochosi> (i get lots of .iso, postinst etc. that are definitely not applications)
<bluesabre> just by mime right now.  Unfortunately, things like pdf and such are also listed under the application mime
<ochosi> (i mean: they're executables, but not applications)
<ochosi> right. i see
<ochosi> maybe we should work around that somehow
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> only search for stuff in /bin and .desktop or something like that
<bluesabre> good idea
<ochosi> but anyway, there's appfinder for that :)
<bluesabre> I actually need to tweak all the type filters since mimetype isn't always so accurate
<ochosi> (i mean if you're seriously looking for something that is installed in the right place)
<ochosi> mhm
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> one more thing about the suggestions
<ochosi> i think the delay needs some tweaking
<ochosi> maybe more delay, currently it slows down typing too much
<ochosi> it seems to poll after every letter/change
<ochosi> (i mean immediately)
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> let me quickly look at what we did for gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> cause there we tested quite a while what feels best
<ochosi> also: don't poll after the first letter
<ochosi> something like: my $timeout = $1<2 ? 1000 : $1==2 ? 200 : 100 (in perl)
<ochosi> (or drop the 1000, maybe better)
<bluesabre> ochosi: try it now.  I moved the suggestions into a gobject thread
<ochosi> bluesabre: far better
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> but still, if i try to type "xubuntu" it stops me after "xu" :/
<bluesabre> ok, I'll throw some timeouts in there
<ochosi> thanks :)
<ochosi> i'll try to make another layout-mockup now
<bluesabre> sounds good
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> i'm not very happy with how much space the infobar takes...
<ochosi> i'd prefer something far more subtle
<ochosi> at least by default
<bluesabre> mock up something awesomer :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, banging my head against the wall currently
<ochosi> as soon as i'm done with that, i'll mock it up :p
 * davmor2 moves ochosi 's wall
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> thanks davmor2 :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, baby steps then. some padding/arrangment tweaks: http://imagebin.org/213285
<ochosi> btw, notice the "x" (close-button) in the search-bar. it should be there when $search!=''
<ochosi> and ideally there would be a spinner instead of the "x" while the search is going on
<ochosi> which would on hover show the "x" to cancel the search
<ochosi> btw, "Esc" could be mapped to cancel the search by default _and_ to clear a finished search
<bluesabre> sounds good
<scott-work> thank you for the bug on xfce4-utils mr_pouit 
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think i finally have an idea how to implement the "find" in the UI
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> btw, made some of the interface adjustments.  Not sure how I'm going to do the spinner in the entry box though
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://imagebin.org/213292
<ochosi> obviously the "search thorougly" is supposed to be a button :}
<ochosi> didn't take the time to really draw it ;)
<bluesabre> I like that
<bluesabre> Care if I make the button look just like that?  
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> please do that!
<ochosi> if the spinner in the entry doesn't work, we can also put it in the statusbar
<ochosi> cause while the search is running, there's nothing else there
<ochosi> Unit193: tried searchmonkey now, it looks overly complicated (the UI) and it's not really faster or anything
<Unit193> Right, it was just an idea, I personally use locate and try find every so often.
<ochosi> Unit193: i think you might be able to use catfish in the future :)
<ochosi> (in the near future)
<knome> hurr durr
<Unit193> I pulled from git, worked with the locate backend.
<Unit193> s/git/bzr/
<ochosi> yup
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: interface adjustments look good! btw, the dotted lines in the treeview, did you set those in the code?
<ochosi> cause they don't look like proper murrine-engine dots, more like fallback-stuff
<bluesabre> It's not murrine, is it?  pygi uses gtk3
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> i forgot :)
<ochosi> (stupid me)
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> well still
<bluesabre> but I agree.  Are those dots themeable?
<bluesabre> or maybe we should port murrine to gtk3?  (not going to volunteer myself for that one)
<ochosi> hmm, treeviews/listviews in greybird-gtk3 don't have the dots, but alternating row-colours
<ochosi> well, in fact unico is a rewrite of murrine for gtk3
<ochosi> it has similar functions
<ochosi> it's just not as mature
<ochosi> partly because gtk3 isn't as mature as gtk2
<ochosi> (murrine and unico are written by the same author)
<bluesabre> oh awesome
<ochosi> so you added the dots?
<ochosi> cause if yes i have to check whether i can theme them with unico (not entirely sure i can)
<ochosi> but alternating row-colors would be nice
<ochosi> they're in the theme, they work e.g. in the file-open dialog
<bluesabre> yeah, it was an option for the treeview.  It should have the alternating rows now (does on mine)
<ochosi> ok nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: just pushed the latest interface changes
<mr_pouit> ok, let's add a workaround for the non-expandable tasklist plugin from 4.10 :<
<ochosi> mr_pouit: agreed
<mr_pouit> that will be ugly, and may have funny side effects for people that changed the default config, but well
<mr_pouit> (basically, if /plugins/plugin-2 is tasklist and /plugins/plugin-3 is separator, then we're in the xubuntu default layout and it sets /plugins/plugin-3 as expandable
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe add a tooltip to the close-button and make it clear the treeview as well
<ochosi> mr_pouit: it's a problem only for people who used the ppa. and those are on their own anyway :}
<mr_pouit> now if someone customised the layout enough to have plugin-2 as a tasklist in panel 0 and plugin-3 as a separator in panel 1, it will be affected as well
<mr_pouit> no, that's on upgrades from 4.8 :[
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm not sure why we'd want to clear the treeview as well?
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, right. i dunno, i kinda expected that, but i think you're right
<ochosi> the changes look and work great btw
<ochosi> do you wanna keep $searchterm in the statusbar?
<ochosi> i mean there's one use-case i can think of, clearing the search-entry and then wanting to know what you searched for, but that's kinda odd and i'm not sure it's enough to keep a duplication
<mr_pouit> did you talk with kalikiana about replacing catfish? (or will it live with another name)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: right, i didn't read what you proposed properly. i'm not sure that this is the kind of workaround we want. it's a bit hacky and not exactly failproof
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yes, he was looking for a new maintainer anyway
<ochosi> mr_pouit: but we'll see, i think last time it didn't compile for hi
<ochosi> m
<ochosi> i'll talk to him 'bout it
<bluesabre> yeah, he was having difficulties with it
<bluesabre> btw, I fixed the annoying bugs with catfish in lubuntu as well, so they might be able to use it next time if we get this in
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> in that case superseding current catfish would be best
<bluesabre> you wouldn't believe it, but pcmanfm does not take path arguments
<bluesabre> silly
<ochosi> pff
<ochosi> i was never a big fan of pacmanfm tbh
 * ochosi hopes jannis will pick up thunar-development again sometime soon
<ochosi> k, i'm off for a bit
<ochosi> prolly bbl though
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, you didn't add the delay yet, did you?
<ochosi> anyway, just wondering, no rush :)
<bluesabre> yeah, haven't added the delay yet, but reduced the number of attempts
<bluesabre> ochosi: Just pushed the icon tooltips.  btw, have any feedback for the custom date and custom file format dialogs?
<knome> bleh, hey people
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> hey bluesabre 
 * knome is *so* tired from being at places during the last days
<knome> home office ftw
<Unit193> knome: Howdy matie.
<knome> hey Unit193! :)
 * knome is starting to like his new terminal color-scheme a lot
<micahg> mr_pouit: I think it's awesome that 4.10 is in and there are no new build failures
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/other/shot-201205-21.png <-
<mr_pouit> micahg: yep \o/, the ppa helped though (there was only one failure with linelight-plugin, and it was noticed in my ppa)
<mr_pouit> the "less nice" part is that plugins need to be updated to benefit from the new 'deskbar' mode introduced in xfce4-panel 4.10
<bluesabre> how much updating?
<mr_pouit> not that big, I think it's mostly on new callback
<mr_pouit> *one
<baizon> knome: irssi?
<ochosi> knome: i dunno, the blues are too agressive for me
<ochosi> bluesabre: will take a look tomorrow, gotta sleep now
<ochosi> night everyone
<Unit193> baizon: Yes that is.
<knome> baizon, yes
<knome> ochosi, nighty!
<knome> ochosi, (not for me!)
<micahg> knome: why did you remove xubuntu-dev from xubuntu-artwork, it contains the canonical branch for the ubuntu package and core-devs need to be able to commit
<knome> micahg, hmph, isn't that a bit unclean? :|
<knome> i can revert if that's needed. i thought it was only you and lionel who needed to access
<knome> -dev is invited once again.
<knome> sorry for the hassle!
 * knome shouldn't work on FOSS when tired
<knome> otoh, i think i found a bug in xfce bugzilla which is fixed
<micahg> knome: well, core-devs shouldn't be touching it unless they need to fix an issue in the archive
<knome> mmh, well anyway, it's reverted
<micahg> thanks
<knome> np
<knome> btw, have you had a chance to look at the website/wiki "development" pages?
<knome> we still refer to people having to apply as a MOTU
<knome> i'd like to get those pages updated to be as correct as possible, and maybe we could attract a few people
<knome> the rest of the "how to contribute" stuff is relatively current and correct now :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-22
<micahg> knome: I'd like to set an address for the xubuntu-artwork team, do you mind if I set it to xubuntu-devel@l.u.c?
<micahg> this should prevent e-mail from going to recipients when the team is subscribed to a bug
<bluesabre-laptop> knome: I know this is a late request, but can we enable the monitor power management (monitor to standby instead of black but on) for 12.10?  Or does it not work properly?
<micahg> mr_pouit: congrats on being the top uploader in quantal :) http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/
<pleia2> micahg: I used to do debian package (well, still have one package in debian), are there bite-size ways I can help out?
<pleia2> disappointed I got out of it, mostly because my job went very sysadminy rather than sticking to the debian package stuff, mostly I'm just maintaining packages at work now
<micahg> pleia2: sure, bug fixes, merges
 * micahg isn't up on the list of what needs to be done, most is done in Debian
<pleia2> ok, I'll have a look around debian xfce
<pleia2> ah, svn :)
<micahg> I'm sure Debian xfce would love help with bugs and what not (I'm sure we could use the help as well)
<pleia2> thanks
<micahg> and if you need sponsoring in Ubuntu, I'm happy to help
<pleia2> much appreciated, I've never actually contributed directly to Ubuntu dev stuff
<micahg> we've only got ~200 devs for all of Ubuntu, we definitely can use more
<micahg> err..I should say 200  uploaders
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> morning
<pleia2> I'm not quite up to speed with current tools, I was only really active in debian for a few years from 2006-2008ish
<micahg> #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-packaging are great places to hang out to learn
<micahg> and ask questions as well
<pleia2> I still lurk in #debian-mentors, should probably join -motu and -packaging to see how things are on this side of things
<micahg> yeah, #debian-mentors is good too
<ochosi> strange bug, ristretto hangs when started from thunar with exo-open (could be a 4.10 ppa regression)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: just uploaded a mockup for the --minimal dialog to the spec
<ochosi> does anyone have a clue why my image-attachment in ubuntu-wiki is scaled up?
<knome> micahg, sounds fine
<micahg> knome: no, haven't looked at the development pages yet, I'd be happy to have people applying for xubuntu-dev if it's desired
<micahg> err...xubuntu packageset
<knome> heh, yeah :)
<knome> it would be great if we could have *some* kind of "mentoring"
<knome> i don't know what that would actually mean... but when people come asking how they can help us on the programming/packaging side, i don't know where exactly to point them
<micahg> knome: we just had that discussion about an hour ago :)
<knome> micahg, mm-hmm; unfortunately, the website is not updated accordingly
<knome> micahg, i mean, what i'd actually like to do with the website/wiki is the same we've done for the rest of the areas of contribution:
<knome> micahg, put anything that end-users or people *starting to contribute* to website, and only those things that developers need to reference *when already contributing* to wiki
<ochosi> how can i add a TOC to a page in the ubuntu wiki?
<knome> <<TableOfContents>> ??
<knome> or <<TableOfContents()>>
<ochosi> wow, that looks very ugly
<ochosi> i thought it would be positioned to the right and thrown in a box automatically
<ochosi> but this plain list is really useless
<knome> hmm. i wonder if there was some ubuntu template then
<knome> that was moinmoin standard
<ochosi> yeah, i haven't found anything else than that either
<astraljava> ||<tablestyle="float:right; font-size: 0.9em; width:40%; margin: 1em 1em 0 0;" style="padding:0.5em; background:#F1F1ED;"><<TableOfContents>>||
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> found one in older xubuntu patges
<ochosi> there really should be a template for this
<astraljava> Ok, I found it on the Studio meeting minutes page.
<ochosi> astraljava: btw, if you have input on the spec (might be interesting for -studio as well), let me know: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors
<ochosi> and feel free to pass it around
<ochosi> it's still unfinished though
<astraljava> ochosi: I'm positive it'll be interesting for many Studio users, as screen space is much needed in many functions. Thanks! I'll have a look, and mention it on #ubuntustudio-devel as well.
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> i'm updating that spec with more mockups on the go, will take a bit longer till it's finished
<knome> idea, which i'll also present in the reviewed strategy document:
<knome> 1) do a few contributions, and you'll be able to join a team (like art, or web) for 'probation'
<knome> 2) continue contributing and indicate motivation to contribute perpetually, and you'll be accepted to the team
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: the custom date dialog looks good! all in all, very nice improvements there!
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: humm, while the mime-list is kinda nice, it's also far too long... :)
<bluesabre-laptop> ochosi: Yes, the mimetype list is insanely long.  I could get rid of it, or try to split it into 2 comboboxes
<ochosi> maybe there's a better list we could use instead
<ochosi> i'll try to ask around
<bluesabre-laptop> cool, thanks.  The mimetypes also has a list of file extensions with it, which is just as long but possibly more friendly
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> what about grouping them?
<ochosi> i mean everything with application/... goes into "application"
<ochosi> (like the Group function in mysql)
<ochosi> cause if you only want a single extension you most likely know the name and then it's always quicker to enter that by hand
<bluesabre-laptop> that's currently what the others do (documents = text, pictures = image, etc)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but there are more choices in the combobox, no?
<ochosi> (about applications: we could really limit them by extension)
<bluesabre-laptop> agreed
<ochosi> btw, is the custom extension filter supposed to work alreadyÃ
<bluesabre-laptop> it was working with my limited testing
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> cause it seems it can "get stuck"
<ochosi> after trying the filter (no results) and updating the searchterm nothing happens anymore
<bluesabre-laptop> yikes
<ochosi> i get "IndexError: string index out of range"
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05222012-124944pm.php
<bluesabre-laptop> I'll poke around with it a bit today and see what I can come up with
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre-laptop> I probably have my nested if statements in the wrong order
<ochosi> anyway, the other filters are working great
<bluesabre-laptop> awesome
<ochosi> i'll give it more testing to be able to give you more feedback
<bluesabre-laptop> sounds good.  I was really pleased with myself when I got the date filters to work
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, they'er pretty cool
<ochosi> and the menu button is also working/looking nicely now :)
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> the custom date filter doesn't automatically update the search-results
<ochosi> i have to execute the search again
<bluesabre-laptop> woops
<bluesabre-laptop> easy fix (hopefully)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but the filtering works for as much as i can tell
<ochosi> the dateformat is very american btw
<ochosi> (in the last-modified column)
<bluesabre-laptop> supposed, it should format based on locale
<ochosi> yeah, that would be ideal
<ochosi> but atm it's the same in thunar, so...
<ochosi> it's something for final polishing
<bluesabre-laptop> I'll set up a european vm for some extra testing, :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i think you can install a different locale and switch
<ochosi> i think 2px padding on the left side of the statusbar would be good
<ochosi> otherwise the font looks glued to the edge
<bluesabre-laptop> yeah, but my spanish has been slipping anyway, could use the practice
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> in that case: venga!
<ochosi> (or if you learned your .es in .mx: Ã¡ndale! arriba! Ã¡ndale!)
<bluesabre-laptop> haha
<bluesabre-laptop> calendar filtering is fixed, padding is added.
<bluesabre-laptop> bbl
<ochosi> cya
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, the custom extension entering doesn't seem to work for me
<ochosi> however the calendar works great now
<ochosi> (i just have to improve greybird's theming of that widget)
<ochosi> another common error-source: tick a few filters and then hide the advanced-sidebar
<ochosi> the filters will remain active and hinder all future searches until catfish gets restarted
<ochosi> my suggestion is to reset all filters when the advanced-sidebar is hidden/deactivated
<ochosi> bluesabre, bluesabre-laptop ^ :)
<bluesabre> good idea
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> wasn't sure which nick you're using
<bluesabre> always a mystery
<ochosi> why are you using two at the same time btw?
<bluesabre> laptop at home/vm at work
<ochosi> right, but the laptop seems to be always on, right?
<bluesabre> our network is tied down, so I can't remote out
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> that makes sense then
<bluesabre> I figured that it had to get confusing
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> nah, it's fine
<ochosi> i'll just be twice as annoying pinging you twice ;)
<ochosi> i just discovered another bug
<ochosi> when you open and close the about-dialog a few times it'll break at some point
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/751119/
<ochosi> so something is fishy there
<ochosi> error-messages above ^
<bluesabre> I think I know how to fix that
<ochosi> okie
<bluesabre> this is going to be one stable app
 * ochosi is keeping his fingers crossed
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> a tooltip for the "search thoroughly" would also be good
<ochosi> btw, do you like that wording? (after all you're the native speaker)
<bluesabre> Sounded fine to me.
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> oh and the duplication i mentioned earlier with $searchterm in the statusbar
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i think it's safe to drop that
<bluesabre> I'm just going to remove it
<ochosi> because i just noticed the window-border also contains $searchterm :)
<bluesabre> I was looking at the windows search (gasp) and they have it at the top, and only the number at the bottom, made sense
<ochosi> mhm
<laite> ochosi: what would you say about changing the scrollbars blue: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05222012-040521pm.php
<laite> too much blue?
<ochosi> yeah, also it's better to have it in the window-title, because then the window is more easily identified (alt-tab, panel,..)
<ochosi> laite: heh, it's pretty blue, yeah :) but it doesn't look bad
<bluesabre> laite: what audio player is that?
<laite> bluesabre: gmusicbrowser =)
<ochosi> laite: to the least you can make the hover-color blue
<ochosi> bluesabre: this is basically where laite and me got to know each other :)
<laite> ochosi: yeah, that might work better
<bluesabre> I like that interface arrangement
<laite> Thanks, it's been a work in progress for a long time, but pretty much steady for now :)
<ochosi> laite: any thoughts on the catfish-revamp?
<laite> ochosi: it looks to shape up pretty good :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: say, is it possible that suggestions stop working after one search?
<laite> for me, 'search thoroughly' seems a bit clumsy though, but I don't know what would be better
<ochosi> laite: if you have a better idea later feel free to let us know :)
<bluesabre> ochosi:  It's possible, I'm not sure why it would happen though
<laite> I mean, it sounds like the application does lousy job on the first run, and that is not a good image for end-user to have :)
<bluesabre> laite: Quick Search vs Deep Search?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i think i can narrow it down: if you search for the same searchterm again, it doesn't pop up suggestions anymore
<laite> bluesabre: much better
<ochosi> bluesabre: (i mean while the results are still there)
<bluesabre> thats odd
<bluesabre> ochosi: still works for me?
<ochosi> my bad, i used a searchterm that (for some reason) doesn't show me any suggestions the first time
<ochosi> laite: what do you think of executing an action (exo-open) on suggestions that are actually filenames instead of searching for a filename?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think another good option would be "close catfish after executing action" (i.e. if you double-click to exo-open a file from the result-set it closes itself)
<laite> ochosi: exo-open on double clicking is must, but I'm not really sure what you mean by 'is a filename'
<ochosi> laite: i'm talking about the suggestions-popup
<laite> oh, right
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm not so sure about that.  If somebody is looking for a specific image or something, they might want to open several
<laite> I think it sounds good
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, probably, that's why i'd make it optional
<ochosi> bluesabre: but it could get in the way if you always have to close the programme that actually just lost focus
<bluesabre> true
<laite> would it be too much a hassle if there was somethign like ctrl+click to open but not closing catfish?
<laite> when 'close when double-clicking' is selected
<ochosi> laite: the question is less: is it too much of a hassle, it's more: is it discoverable enough?
<ochosi> we could just as well map it to middle-click
<laite> true, I actually thought of that from web browsers, but since my mouse's middleclick has been broken for a while I've gotten used to ctrl+click links =D
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> you know, mice aren't that expensive anymore ;)
<ochosi> </just_sayin>
<laite> But I really like my current one :P
<mr_pouit> micahg: easy with ~80 no-change rebuilds :P
<ochosi> bbl
<astraljava> knome: If you're wondering whether the poll gets relatively few voters, it could be due to not being able to save your submissions on doodle.
<knome> astraljava, huh?
<knome> astraljava, can you elaborate :)
<astraljava> knome: I did everything by the book, but still the save button remained disabled.
<knome> astraljava, hmm. js disabled?
<astraljava> Let me check.
<astraljava> Voi lollero, I cannot even see how to do that in Chrome. :D
<knome> lawl.
<astraljava> Ahh... found it eventually. No, js is enabled.
<knome> weird
<ochosi> good, now i also have an excuse for the doodle :)
<astraljava> *smirk*
<ochosi> astraljava: btw, the catfish-project of bluesabre might also be of interest for u-studio
<astraljava> ochosi: Ok, what's that about? I haven't been able to follow the discussion, really.
<astraljava> Btw., knome, ochosi: I figured the issue out with doodle. It won't let you save in the Calendar view, but in the Table view.
<ochosi> astraljava: catfish is the (rather old) tool for searching in xubuntu, i guess in u-studio as well
<astraljava> Stupid design to even show the Save button in the Calendar view at all.
<ochosi> astraljava: bluesabre is working on reviving and improving it
<ochosi> yeah, +1 on doodle
<astraljava> ochosi: Interesting. I haven't used it at all, and don't even wanna check now, cause I still haven't my desktop running (no tables for that), and I hate having to run it in Parallels. :)
<ochosi> heh, doesn't sound very convenient
<astraljava> Not really, no. The bedroom|study is quite small, and I'd need to put the table against the window, but there's the radiator in a very inconvenient height, so I need to get slightly taller legs for the tabletop. I can do that on the next pay day the earliest, though. :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> night everyone!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-23
<Unit193> In the roadmap, the ways to complete "Add DVD support to Xubuntu restricted extras" would be to 1. Add libdvdcss2 to xubuntu-restricted-addons and pretend that they may have medibuntu repos, 2. Automagically add the repos and install libdvdcss2, and 3. Install libdvdread4 and run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh (worst option, IMO)
<Unit193> So I'm guessing that'll be fully ignored. :P
<Unit193> Another option as a workaround, but be to make it easier/educate people how to do it and that it's not there by default.
<micahg> yeah, I''m not in favor of those
<chelz> maintaining a xubuntu-specific nonfree repository that basically mirrors the medibuntu stuff might be an option
<Unit193> Don't think so.
<chelz> i'm not sure how ubuntu does it but they have that "install mp3 support" during the install. could have that and have it add medibuntu repos, then maybe have some menu option in Preferences or something for "install mp3/dvd support", then also prompt the user if they put in a dvd. thing that informs them about medibuntu being added, it being a separate thing, etc
<Unit193> MP3 support is far different than DVD support, and adding 3rd party repos isn't exactly supported (and not in main for legal reasons, along with others)[C
<chelz> ah, would there be legal issues with something that facilitates adding 3rd party repos like medibuntu?
<micahg> well, one's distributable, the other one is questionable
<Unit193> There's not a great way to handle DVD support, but I'm not fond of current (or any that I said.)  Something like Kubuntu's firefox isn't really either.
<micahg> Firefox is in the archive :()
<micahg> :)
<chelz> Unit193: well about 2), adding repos without the user accepting that is the iffy part in my mind. if the user is prompted then it becomes more okay
<Unit193> chelz: That's the proposal.
<Unit193> micahg: Yep, has an option in the menu to install it, I know that's different.
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: great work on the update-db dialog!
<ochosi> knome: could we please change the !panels factoid in ubottu? it links to a wordpress-post from 2007(!) for changing the panel-bg (which is an easy point-and-click action now)
<knome> ochosi, will you come up with a new text (in paste, or in irc), and i'll update
<ochosi> knome: ty
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: another thing: "$n files found" is in fact incorrect, as the result-set also contains folders... maybe "$n results found" instead?
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ochosi, but aren't folders files too ;)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, well....
<knome> ;]
<ochosi> knome: have you tested blackbird yet?
<knome> not yet
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> me too
<bluesabre> Wow, everyone is so quiet today.
<knome> bluesabre, nah, we're just hiding out at #xubuntu-offtopic
<mr_pouit> do like me, don't go there, so knome has at least a chan to say bad things behind your backs (:
<Unit193> Actually, it's me diong it.
<knome> mr_pouit, i thought #shimmer was the blame-others channel?
<knome> oops
<knome> O:)
<mr_pouit> haha
<knome> hmph, surveymonkey doesn't support restricted surveys
<knome> i'm really thinking that creating a google doc and inviting people in team to join
<knome> oh wait
<knome> yay
<knome> ochosi, you there?
<knome> or, anybody ;]
<knome> (from the team...)
 * pleia2 waves
<knome> hai
<knome> you'll get some email really soon
<bluesabre> The new website is on top of wordpress right?  http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/tags/survey maybe
<pleia2> no more email D:
<knome> pleia2, ahah :D
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> I has no email...
<knome> Unit193, yeah, you won't get any.
<pleia2> btw, I'm mostly internetless this weekend (holiday weekend in the states, I will have a pool and bad internet connectivity)
<len-dt> Quick question, has xubuntu been having problems building the ISOs for the last few days?
<len-dt> knome, ^^
<Unit193> pleia2: Haha! :)
<knome> len-dt, i've no idea :)
<pleia2> Unit193 :)
<len-dt> knome Ok, Ustudio has and it looks xfce4ish so I thought I would ask.
<pleia2> len-dt: their mailing list tracks build failures, from today: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2012-May/004096.html
<pleia2> even though they do use xfce, they're a different build from us
<knome> pleia2, psst... len-dt is a US developer
<pleia2> oh :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> but I see their build failures are xfce related now that I look at the email
<len-dt> Ya, I know. ;-)  We haven't (yet) made any changes
<knome> Unit193, PM me your email where you want FOSS stuff.
<pleia2> sorry, I'm used to answering questions from people who don't actually have a clue
 * knome waves
<len-dt> I see that there  are xubuntu amd64 builds but no 1386
<len-dt> So I thought I would see if the problem is the same or not
<Unit193> "cp: cannot stat `/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/ftp/dists/quantal/main/installer-i386/current/images/cdrom/non-pae/initrd.gz': No such file or directory"  Not sure that's related, but would make sense why only 386.
<len-dt> Nope that is different.
<len-dt> Thanks for the info.
 * Unit193 knows nothing, just looked at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/quantal/daily-live-20120523.log
<Unit193> knome: FOSS == Xubuntu in this case?
 * bluesabre is going to ask all iso-related question to Unity193 from now on
<knome> Unit193, yes. most probably xubuntu team -related stuff only
<knome> (i prefer irc, and rarely contact people by email without agreement anyway)
<knome> Unit193, it isn't that hard, is it?
<knome> :|
<Unit193> I generally never send email, but I check it quite often. (Have a few emails, and had to check if we had coffee, we're out :''( )
<knome> everybody in the xubuntu team should have mail now
<knome> oops, Unit193's email shows for anybody in the team
<knome> ;)
 * Unit193 cares not, one at least already had it, and I've sent to the list once.
<knome> yeah.
<pleia2> I haz for cat pix
<Unit193> Just glad I wasn't called "Unity" again.
<Unit193> :D
<pleia2> lol
<knome> pleia2, good news; you can answer now, so you don't have to do it over the weekend
<pleia2> if I vote for something, does that mean I have to work on it? :)
<knome> no
<knome> the assignees are listed on the roadmap page
<knome> you are just voting for "can the assignees start working on X"
<knome> this is kind of... well, stupid, since all of the blueprints are added by team members
<pleia2> so I can just approve all?
<knome> yeah, if you don't have anything against somebody working on the items :D
<astraljava> knome: Where did you grep the emails from? doodle?
<pleia2> none of these are particularly controversial :)
<knome> astraljava, personal address book + LP
<knome> astraljava, you got something from j.j@gmail
<knome> err, at
<astraljava> knome: It's weird, as I hardly ever sent anything to *buntu from that address.
<knome> really?
<knome> i must've gathered that somewhere
<knome> point me to something else, and i'll update accordingly
<knome> oh right
<knome> there it is
<knome> @kapsi?
<meetingology`> knome: Error: "kapsi?" is not a valid command.
<astraljava> knome: Yep, my FLOSS email is the nick at kapsi dot countrycode.
<knome> meetingology`, shut up.
<meetingology`> knome: Error: "shut" is not a valid command.
<knome> astraljava, that's set as your primary email now
<astraljava> Thanks.
<knome> np :)
<knome> the more i think of it, the more stupid the whole voting seems.
<knome> i knew it's stupid already, but ochosi talked me into doing it anyway.
 * knome is trying to blame somebody else for needing to do redundant stuff :|
<Unit193> I've not seen this "overlay" before.
<knome> overlay?
<knome> oh, that
<knome> heh
<knome> there's some progress on it already.
<knome> not that we have approved working on it yet!
<knome> damn rebels.
<astraljava> Curses of the democracy. Oh wait, this isn't one. It's a meritocracy. Hmm...
<knome> hehe.
<knome> i'd love a sauna :|
<astraljava> Hop in the bus, I'll switch it on.
<astraljava> Bring beer.
<knome> haha.
<knome> :)
<knome> <- too lazy
<knome> but thanks for the offer
<knome> i'll carry that on to some other day ;)
<astraljava> Sure. :) I'll carry myself to bed now.
<knome> hehe, good night!
<ochosi> knome: _i_ have talked you into voting??
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, i remember only one conversation distantly
<knome> i mean, after i told i wanted the team to approve
<ochosi> i think it's rather a (late) consequence of the stupid (and otherwise consequence-less) 4chan "raid"/visit
<knome> then i said something like "oh this is so unneeded...", and you responded "better to do it anyway" :]
 * knome is not really blaming ochosi 
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> ochosi, now that you are on, you could drop in the "approve" votes :P
<knome> or, try to decline them, let's see which one gets the majority :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> sure, one sec, i'll be back in a minute
<knome> yup, np
<knome> now if we only get you and somebody else vote "approve", we're done
<ochosi> :)
<knome> (9 members, atm 3 have approved everything)
<Unit193> I did check the specs for the ones I didn't know (if they had them)
<Unit193> I'd not think there'd be much to apt-offline.
<knome> Unit193, well, that's not even open for voting, since no assignee
<knome> Unit193, though i'm sure we can look at that at some point of the cycle anyway...
<Unit193> I started looking at everything left anyway.
<knome> :)
<knome> sure, not a bad idea
<Unit193> I'd rather not make a commitment I don't know 100% I can complete.
<ochosi> hmm 
<knome> hmm hmm?
<ochosi> if i decline my own blueprint i have less work...
<knome> ochosi, not, unless 4 other people also decline
<ochosi> btw, why is ubiquity-app-sets there?
<ochosi> i thought you were against that anyway because we don't have great chances for a good a11y version
<knome> but astraljava wanted to be the assignee.
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> lo
<ochosi> l
<knome> i think i might have declined that too
<knome> ;)
<knome> err,
<knome> i could have
<ochosi> i'm not against it
<knome> me neither.
<ochosi> but i was mainly wondering
<ochosi> so anyway, i voted
<knome> i'm just *probably* against it if it takes his time off from something else
<knome> haha, yeah
<ochosi> catfish and the keyboard-overlay are pretty far down the road already, so those two definitely shouldn't be declined
<knome> somebody else up for voting? :P
<ochosi> you should really test the new catfish, it's so much better
<knome> ochosi, well, that's not a reason, if you think logically - vlc is far down the road already too, but we're still not going to include it
<ochosi> kudos to bluesabre for all the hard work
<knome> yay for bluesabre 
<ochosi> knome: pfff ;)
<ochosi> apps are not up for voting anyway...
<knome> ochosi, yeah, not really, because there's not yet any spec
<knome> ochosi, so impossible to vote
 * knome is thinking we might be a bit late for the spec deadlines, agian
<knome> *again
<knome> unless people really start working on stuff :)
<ochosi> well yes
<ochosi> but tbh the specs where i'm involved are all going quite ok (not to brag too much, but...)
<knome> hehe
<knome> looks like we'd need to sit down with the QA stuff someday with the other finnish creep
<ochosi> in fact the finnish part of xubuntu is growing lately
<ochosi> i don't know about edii though, seems we lost him along the way
<knome> yup, and i hope that keeps on going
<knome> he's just damn busy :|
<ochosi> but now there's laite (which i'm extremely happy about)
<knome> probably when he starts studying again
<knome> i mean, he's definitely interested
<ochosi> you mean when he's studying he can actually slack off? :}
<knome> and able too, for god's sake
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> well, isn't studying == slacking off true?
<knome> if it isn't, damn... i've done it wrong all the time!!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> well it's definitely a phase that potentially allows you to follow all kinds of interests (to put it more diplomatically)
<Unit193> Nice, updatedb right in the progy.
<knome> heh
<ochosi> Unit193: "progy"?
<knome> reminds me of "pierogy"
<ochosi> or "the prodigy"?
<Unit193> Program.
<ochosi> ah
 * ochosi isn't street-slang-proof
<ochosi> so you're referring to catfish
<Unit193> Yes I am.
<knome> GridCube, go vote @surveymonkey
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> yeah, i'm off for playing something on ps3 too, see you later or tomorrow
<knome> nighty!
<Unit193> 'Night!
<GridCube> knome, say again
<GridCube> Â¿
<GridCube> oh :D mailing list
<ochosi> no, not mailing list, just plain email :)
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> well. for the first one, i love the terminal theme :P
<GridCube> so ill go with decline
<ochosi> doesn't mean we'll drop it though
<GridCube> what Ubiquity application sets means?
<ochosi> i mean: review != drop
<GridCube> :P i know
<ochosi> that means people could e.g. choose to install an a11y version of xubuntu in the installer already
<ochosi> or other kinds of default application sets
<GridCube> but you asking me, so i say what i think we should focus, our terminal is pretty enough, doesnt need hours of working if it works
<ochosi> hmwell, the thing is that it doesn't work too well with some terminal apps (mutt and others)
<GridCube> the thing is i keep thinking on 4.8, :/ and being that 12.10 will be on 4.10 i think a lot of the things we are planning are going to change by default
<ochosi> nah, not really. 4.10 only improves 4.8, it doesn't change the base
<GridCube> i hope so
<pleia2> it'll look like unity
 * pleia2 runs away
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> and you can already test it by installing the package unity-xfce from mr_pouit's ppa :D
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre-laptop> panel+bamf?
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: yes, actually i'd love that...
<ochosi> there's already a plugin (unreleased) that does some of that
<ochosi> but it's in a rather unfinished state
<ochosi> (and doesn't actually use bamf)
 * ochosi is off to watch another episode of chuck
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre-laptop> date night with wife... see you all tomorrow
<ochosi> oh nice
<ochosi> bluesabre-laptop: have fun!
<ochosi> and see ya
<mr_pouit> ubuntu-studio iso build-failures:  I filed bugs for that against ubuntustudio-meta and ubuntustudio-default-settings
<mr_pouit> (I could directly upload myself, but I prefer if they take care of these)
<mr_pouit> Bug #1002250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002250 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "[quantal] xfce4-utils is deprecated in 4.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002250
<mr_pouit> (and Bug #1003064)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003064 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[quantal] Panel & plugins config changes for 4.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003064
<mr_pouit> good night ;>
<ochosi> night everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-24
 * Unit193 kicks pleia2 in the scrollback.
<pleia2> :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I can take care of that
<micahg> mr_pouit: err, I can take care of the meta upload if they fix the default settings package
<micahg> astraljava: ^^
<astraljava> micahg: ACK, I'll look into it tonight.
<ochosi> mornin'
<Unit193> I'll be seeing that soonish...
<ochosi> meh, with the 4.10 ppa i'd have to compile all the dev-libs myself in order to be able to compile xfce components :/
<mr_pouit> hello
<mr_pouit> ochosi: what dev libs?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: libexo-1-dev, libxfconf-0-dev and libxfce4ui-1-dev
<mr_pouit> they are in the ppa
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> ok, then i have to check again
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, i still had _your_ ppa in the list...
<ochosi> *facepalm*
<koegs> what about this bug? will it be fixed anytime soon? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/992579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992579 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "XFCE4: Hotkey for "Maximize Window" ignored, Application Hotkeys delayed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> koegs: i can't really confirm the bug. i'm using alt+f10 here to maximize windows and it works perfectly (i'm using xfce4.10 though from the ppa, but i remember this worked just as well before upgrading)
<ochosi> knome: what're your thoughts on trying to get ubuntu-one support in thunar to be able to offer/promote that as a default backup solution?
<koegs> ochosi: i am wondering, because this affects all fresh installed machines, either mit with or without xfce4.10
<koegs> only the upgraded machine from 11.10 does not have that problem
<ochosi> i did a fresh install here as well
<koegs> ochosi: if i redefine it in the system-settings, it will work until a reboot
<ochosi> yeah, that's odd, i haven't done that
<laite> I have exactly one key-combination which always works until reboot (<Super>+section) - same problem with xfce 4.8 & 4.10, but only in ubuntu - with debian there was no problem
<laite> I really know where to report this bug, since it seems that it has nothing to do with xfce itself
<ochosi> mr_pouit: any thoughts on that? ^
<ochosi> bluesabre: calendar looks a bit better now in greybird: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05242012-045643pm.php
<ochosi> just haven't managed to figure out why the days belonging to the previous/next month aren't greyed out
<bluesabre> nice
<knome> ochosi, mixed feelings - but if it's not too much work, it might be worth it
<ochosi> knome: you're referring to U1 now, right?
<ochosi> (it has been a long and eventful day :) )
<knome> yes, that's it
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> yeah, i think something like that would enhance UX quite a bit
<knome> madnick, we still need to write the specification, but i suppose it would be best to go with what we've done already (re: lightdm+plymouth)
<ochosi> the only problem i see atm is that the U1 control panel was ported to qt :(
<ochosi> but it's not necessarily needed i think
<knome> heh
<ochosi> should work in the browser as well
<ochosi> but i have to investigate a bit more for that
<knome> mm-hmm
<ochosi> but i'd only do that if we really consider it generally
<ochosi> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-25
<micahg> is there a reason why we only have 64 bit images?
<astraljava> I haven't looked into it so far. I'm wondering where to sign up for the image-build mail in the first place. I know I receive it for Studio, but that's probably because the mail is forwarded to the -devel ml.
<astraljava> But anyway, does anyone have a clear overview what's been done for this cycle thus far?
<astraljava> I suppose I'd have to write some kind of report for the release meeting today, but I have no clue. :)
<astraljava> At least people have been looking at the blueprints, voted on them, and some work has already happened with the desktop search.
<astraljava> Anything else?
<astraljava> Naturally refreshed packages from Debian.
<Unit193> http://www.mail-archive.com/pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org/msg16752.html That *seems* to be the best bet for dvd playback, but I'd bet not for Q.
<micahg> :( no GTK 3 for Xfce 4.12, we might not even get GTK 3 for the next LTS
<Unit193> Geez...
<astraljava> Well, I can sort of understand it, if the resource hogging is that much worse, and is expected to diminish over time as GTK 3 evolves.
<astraljava> But I haven't followed the discussion at all, just a guess here.
<astraljava> grr... I haven't imported my ssh/gpg keys.
<knome> morning
<Unit193> Jello, way past sleepy time. (And have I said I hate birds yet?)
<knome> :P
<pjotr> Hello, I have a request for Xubuntu. 
<pjotr> The default double click time of the mouse, is now set at 250 ms. In my experience this is too short for many users: they have difficulty opening files with double click. A default value of 350 ms would be better, in my opinion.
<pjotr> For which package should I report this on Launchpad?
<knome> we haven't got any feedback on that beofore, so i'm not sure if it is so "many" users
<knome> but that would be xubuntu-default-settings
<pjotr> Some 50 % of the people that I have transferred to Xubuntu, that is.... Personal experience only, therefore. :-)
<knome> well yeah, as i said, haven't got any feedback on that before
<pjotr> thanks for pointing me to the right package.
<knome> np
<pjotr> especially elderly people have diffciculty clicking swift enough with 250 ms
<ochosi> hi everyone
<laite> has there been any plans for a xubuntu-related forum for internet? I for one feel that ubuntu's official forum is not the best place for xubuntu-conversations, especially while there is no subforum for it specifically
<laite> and hi :)
<knome> laite, not really - it would be quite a lot of maintenance
<Unit193> All you have to do is tag it as Xubuntu.
<laite> things like this ^ could be easily polled if something like that existed
<chelz> having it more prominent that people should use askubuntu and tag xubuntu might be good
<laite> could we ask for a subforum to ubuntuforums?
<laite> For what I've seen, there's some questions that come over and over in #xubuntu, perhaps foruming them would make people use google before asking here :)
<knome> laite, isn't there one, under DE's ?
<laite> knome: I know it's recommended to use ubuntu forums with [xubuntu] tags, but for me it's just kind of a mess that there's also kubuntu/lubuntu etc. questions in the same forum
<knome> laite, for me, forums are a mess whatsoever ... :)
<pjotr> knome: I have published the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1004400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004400 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default double click time is too short" [Undecided,New]
<pjotr> Maybe you guys can talk this over some time?  :-)
<knome> maybe
<pjotr> That's all I can ask.... Thanks for your time.  :-)
<astraljava> knome: backlog! help me
<knome> astraljava, wut? help in what? :)
<astraljava> release mail.
<astraljava> I just noticed it was already due yesterday... :(
<knome> nothing much done; setting up the blueprints and drafting stuff
 * astraljava has to update his mental TODO notes
<astraljava> Yeah ok, that's what I thought.
<knome> thanks for asking though
<knome> skaet had typoed your email addy
<astraljava> Anything about to land that'll have an impact on others? I suppose that some packages are deprecated, so I
<knome> that's probably why you didn't get it before...
<astraljava> 'll mention that.
<knome> well, xfce 4.10 is coming some time
<astraljava> Yeah, and I couldn't even add it to my google calendar as that's not my email.
<knome> :)
<astraljava> I don't suppose I can have a secondary email on that?
<knome> ask skaet :)
<knome> told her he mistyped it though, you should be able to add it now
<knome> she
<knome> ..
<astraljava> No, I'm getting it to my kapsi address, but that's not my google calendar address.
<knome> aha
<knome> in that case, d'oh!
<knome> i asked her to add that if it's okay
<knome> seems like it's not.
<astraljava> Oh it's okay, there just was a link I could use to add myself automatically. I'll just have to manually do that now, no problem.
<knome> heh :)
<knome> so, any plans for the evening?
<knome> (which i did ask you already)
<astraljava> I'm meeting with a few colleagues. Oh yeah, you did. I forgot, sorry.
<knome> heh, no problem
<knome> have fun then :)
<astraljava> We still have some training tomorrow, but it's technically the last night, so.. :)
<knome> lol
 * knome just created all the blueprints
<knome> that's going to give me a massive amount of LP karma
<mr_pouit> (xfce 4.10 is already in quantal)
<ochosi> knome lives for the LP karma :)
<knome> haha
<knome> not really
 * knome is eating some garlic ciabatta
<mr_pouit> knome: opinion is like won't fix
<mr_pouit> (for the double click time bug)
<knome> mr_pouit, ssshh!
<mr_pouit> knome: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ any idea why there's no topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu?
<knome> mr_pouit, skaet just approved it today, probably appearing soonish
<ochosi> bluesabre: i assume there's no way of distinguishing whether an ogg is a video or audio?
<knome> except mime type magic (eg. read the file)
<ochosi> yeah, prolly
<mr_pouit> even with mime magic it's not obvious
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> it's just that thunar seems to detect that file as audio (which it is) while catfish says it's a video
<knome> mr_pouit, well at *some point* it has to be ;)
<mr_pouit> e.g. I had to open them with taglib and check them for validity to detect it's an audio file
<ochosi> one way could be by looking whether it has tags
<ochosi> right
<mr_pouit> (otherwise thunar-media-tags-plugin would crash trying to tag an ogg video file)
<ochosi> i think it's odd that there still arent any tags for videos
<knome> video files can't have tags?
<knome> :)
<ochosi> not that i know of
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> ok guys, i gotta go now, have a friend's wedding this afternoon
<ochosi> i'll be back sometime tomorrow
<knome> oh, have fun, and tell congrats to him/her ;)
<ochosi> yeah, i'll tell both of them :)
<knome> hihi
<knome> good!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> see y'all
<knome> i suppose you are giving them a xubuntu cd for present too? :P
<ochosi> obviously
<knome> hehe
 * knome is off too, at least for a moment
<mr_pouit> knome: I've added work items to some blueprints, please fix them, sometimes I don't really known what is meant in the spec :P (e.g. rethink elementary-xfce icons)
<laite> One thing that has annoyed me with xfce4-indicator-plugin is that there is no tooltip for sound indicator (that would say 'volume: 56%' or something similar). Should I report this as a 'bug' in launchpad or is there some better way?
<mr_pouit> laite: is there a tooltip for indicator-sound with unity?
<mr_pouit> yes -> bug for xfce4-indicator-plugin, no -> wishlist bug for indicator-sound, I guess
<laite> mr_pouit: I have no idea, haven't used unity in ages
<mr_pouit> maybe someone here has, let's wait a bit :P
<laite> =)
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: I was actually going to work on the filetype filters next.  We'll see how well it goes.
<knome> :)
<knome> bluesabre, hm, you are this sean davis, right? https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> good
<knome> just confusing since you haven't added your irc nick there
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I should do that
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> you are now the assignee to some blueprints
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis
<astraljava> Oh, we have blueprints now?
<knome> astraljava, yeah, i created them today
<knome> bluesabre, you could go through adding the work items with ochosi
<astraljava> Whee! But I won't update the release mail anyhoo.
<knome> bluesabre, but basically, edit the work items -section with [assignee_for_item] What to do: PROGRESS
<knome> bluesabre, where PROGRESS is... BLOCKED, TODO, INPROGRESS, DONE
<knome> or POSTPONED :)
<knome> bluesabre, if there are bugs related to any blueprint, there's a tool to link them - you don't need to add a work item for a bug, that's done automatically
<knome> bluesabre, there's a more thorough guide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<knome> bluesabre, or you can just ask the channel :)
<bluesabre> Thanks! 
<knome> np, just don't hesitate to ask since it's for the good for all of us
<knome> is there any technical reason why ~xubuntu-dev or ~xubuntu-website should be members of ~xubuntu-team
<knome> at least for -website, i don't think there is
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-26
<Unit193> (See? Maybe right channel this time!)  With the thought of changing double click speed, it's generally the less computer savvy that need it slower, so the people that like it faster would be more likely to know or be able to figure out how to change it.  Just a thought.
<knome> probably, and i'm not sure if setting it to 350ms would actually annoy anybody
<knome> i mean, if you do it quicker, then it just happens quicker
<Unit193> But, yes, if it is basically 10-20 users that want it, I'm not saying change it anyway.
<knome> a hasty decision is what i want to avoid
<knome> this is something we can set in the last weeks of the cycle - that's in october!!
<knome> (well naturally it's better if it's in earlier, but theoretically)
<knome> i'm off to bed. see you tomorrow
<Unit193> Adios.
<ochosi> ahoi everyone
<knome> hello ochosi 
<ochosi> hey pasi :)
<ochosi> took me a bit to read all the backlog now
<knome> heh
<ochosi> anyhoo, how's the upcoming time for you? busy or some free time?
<knome> should be some time, though should be some busy time too
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> so as always then :)
<ochosi> btw, i put a screener of blackbird on deviantart, got pretty nice feedback so far
<knome> yeah, as always..
<knome> i don't plan to change this, i do like having free time for whatever i like :D
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should take some specific time to sit down for albatross
<astraljava> Time is always free. What you do with it changes. *smirk*
<knome> ochosi, yeah, that sounds like a plan
<ochosi> ohhh, all the wiseness...
<knome> astraljava, HOW much beer did you have yesterday again?
<astraljava> Not that much, considering it was free as well. Free as in free beer. *smirk*
<knome> heh
<knome> hangover or not?
<astraljava> Nah, I'm a pro.
 * knome whispers in loud voice: ALCOHOLIC!
<astraljava> But once I thought I was getting a plain Olvi can, but it was actually orange soda in a very similar printing. I noticed only when I was pouring it into a glass.
<knome> awwwwh :D
<astraljava> I was so disappointed.
<knome> hehe
<knome> i'm sure you were
<astraljava> But I have a principal to drink whatever I poured into my glass.
<astraljava> So I fought it, and won.
<knome> and the other were relieved..?
<knome> i can't drink anything, not if it's artificially colored yellow
<knome> *everything
<astraljava> Oh yeah.
<knome> btw, i didn't have any beer yesterday ^
<astraljava> You couldn't have. It was _very_ yellow.
<knome> yeah, ugh
<knome> i would've needed to give it to you and take a beer instead
<astraljava> Or do as one guest did. Took a 'lonkero', didn't like it, so poured directly into the sink.
<knome> heh.
<astraljava> Ok, I need to go and catch the train. Later. 
<knome> a gin i could just pour down to my throat.
<knome> see you!
<knome> ochosi, we should sit down and add all the work items to blueprints
<knome> mr_pouit, i think the real reason why xubuntu doesn't show up in status.u.c yet is that none of the actual blueprints are approved for Q yet, thus there is no work items to show
<ochosi> knome: yeah, we should
<ochosi> probably should combine that with something that is more fun :p
<ochosi> gah, samba sucks big time. somehow i get permission errors every other time (with the same command though)
<ochosi> knome: btw, could you look into testing maya? it's a rather nice calendar app
<knome> samba.... yeah
<knome> was there something else i should test?
<knome> i could do them both now
<knome> is maya in the repos?
<knome> really hard to find that app for "some" reason...
<ochosi> maya is in a ppa
<ochosi> it also has google-cal sync support
<knome> interesting
<ochosi> but i guess i forgot to install something for that to work
<knome> (if it works
<knome> )
<knome> so where's the ppa
<ochosi> this is what it looks like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05262012-013119pm.php
<ochosi> one sec
<knome> mhm, nice and clean
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> it doesn't seem to work that well
<ochosi> now that i'm testing it for real :)
<ochosi> i guess the clean UI blinded me
<knome> heh
<knome> right
<ochosi> oh wait
<ochosi> it does work
<ochosi> it just has personal events hidden by default it seems
<knome> heh, ok, so where's the ppa?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> this one: http://ppa.launchpad.net/elementary-os/daily/ubuntu
<ochosi> pleia2: heyo! saw the fabulous stickers on g+. do you sell/ship them as well?
<knome> ochosi, just buy your own at moo.com :)
<knome> ochosi, or beg her to ship a few for free
<knome> what normal people do / what knome does
<ochosi> nah, i just want at least one ubuntu-women sticker for my flatmate
<ochosi> and maybe a xubuntu-sticker for me, but i'm not sure
<ochosi> i'm not 100% the sticker guy
<knome> hehe
<knome> ochosi, i can't run maya, it fails on boot
<ochosi> on boot?
<knome> when i try to run it
<knome> apparently, it needs some evolution stuff
<knome> [WARN 14:40:42.519693] [libecal] e_cal_client_new: Cannot get calendar from factory: The name org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Calendar1 was not provided by any .service files
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> evolution-dataserver is a backend-only
<knome> well i don't want that! :P
<ochosi> they use that for syncing with google-ca
<ochosi> l
<knome> what's the pkgname?
<knome> aha, -data-server
<ochosi> i think evolution-data-server
<knome> 12 megs :/
<knome> quite lot for a calendar
<ochosi> agreed
<knome> ehm
<knome> pressing the 'select calendars to display' halts maya for a while
<knome> also, where do i control which google calendars are synced?
<ochosi> haven't found that either :p
<ochosi> it's not a very smooth experience
<ochosi> i'll ask around in #elementary-dev whether they have any plans for this calendar
<knome> ok, purging
<ochosi> i mean if they get it to work then it could be a nice addition
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> but otoh you're right, 12mb is too much
<knome> yeah.
<knome> and that's just for the e-d-s
<knome> bbl, cooking some food with wife ->
<ochosi> ba and hf
<pleia2> ochosi: just email me your address, I'll send stickers (madnick, you too)
<pleia2> knome: I'll send some to the address I have for you :)
<knome> pleia2, sounds good! thanks!
<knome> most cooking done, waiting for the food to be ready to eat
 * pleia2 just finished eating an egg sandwich in the airport
<knome> heh, congrats
<knome> if it had been bacon and eggs -sandwich, yummy
<knome> or bacon and chicken
<knome> oh mi lord
<pleia2> I don't eat pork, so choices are limited
<pleia2> especially for breakfast
<knome> hmmh
<knome> right
<knome> but bacon is... bacon!
<pleia2> pepperoni is the troublesome one :) I can live without bacon
<knome> weird
<knome> to buy or not to buy another ps3 game
<knome> (i just let go of one, so...)
<knome> oopsii! ordered one more! :)
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> but it was only 24 pounds!
<astraljava> Bacon is very much different from pork.
<astraljava> It's practically its own species.
<knome> astraljava, yeah, almost.
<astraljava> Or it might be growing in tress.
<astraljava> trees even.
<knome> i know many vegetarians who eat bacon
<knome> go figure.
<astraljava> Like yesterday it was revealed to us that Volvos grow in trees in northern Sweden.
<astraljava> The factories are a sham.
<pleia2> I knew it
<knome> at what point, before or after 1 permille?
<astraljava> How would I know?!
<astraljava> The host also had bought a scooter during one of those evenings.
<astraljava> So...
 * pleia2 boards airplane
<knome> pleia2, hf! :)
<astraljava> Oh? Where you up to?
<knome> astraljava, ouch.
<astraljava> I have good friends.
<knome> err.
<knome> let's start with this jussi...
<knome> in which way is he "good" ?
<knome> or do you mean apart from him?
<astraljava> Yes. :)
<knome> ah, in that case...
<astraljava> No, I failed in setting the alarm this morning.
<knome> :D
<knome> you were late?
<astraljava> I had my iPhone alarm on weekdays only.
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> ouch,
<astraljava> So I didn't pack everything.
<knome> consequences?
<astraljava> I noticed while leaving the offices that I forgot headphones.
<knome> hrm
<astraljava> I called one friend, knowing he lives usually close to downtown.
<astraljava> I asked him to bring me a set to the railway station.
<astraljava> It worked!
<astraljava> :)
<knome> you mean he's a pilgrim, living under bridges and usually close to downtown
<knome> ?
<knome> anyway, i'm off to eat
<knome> be back after that
<astraljava> Yeah, he's got piles of high quality audio gear with him. :)
<astraljava> I'd love to find his stashes.
 * astraljava is about to unleash the semi-regular complaint about mobile broadband.
<knome> hrmm
<mr_pouit> o hai
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I added xfce4-volumed-pulse to my ppa if you're interested in an up-to-date package
<GridCube> so, knome https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/DefaultMediaPlayer#preview
<baizon> i like the design of nightingale
<baizon> GridCube: did you used that player?
<GridCube> i cant make it work
<GridCube> it crashes 
<GridCube> i added it to the list though
<baizon> a ok
<GridCube> im trying to let aside my dislikness for gmb and be the most neutral posible
<baizon> GridCube: what about deadbeef and listen?
<baizon> i used listen for a little bit and liked it
<laite> is clementine qt-based?
<baizon> yes :)
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> im trying them to compare
<laite> that's what I thought :)
<GridCube> but at least it doesnt pull 2/3 of kde like amarok tries
<baizon> clementine is the best music player imo
<laite> besides gmusicbrowser, you surely mean ;)
<baizon> to bad it doesnt have a gtk port
<baizon> i hate gmusicbrowser :)
<laite> heh
<baizon> tried it for a month
 * jussi slaps knome... nasty boy
 * knome farts at jussi 
#xubuntu-devel 2012-05-27
<ochosi> mr_pouit: thanks, will do
<ochosi> mr_pouit: you should probably make it conflict with xfce4-volumed, having both installed at the same time is kinda... (:
<mr_pouit> ochosi: well, they'll both work (double the notifications, double the fun,  maybe? :p)
<mr_pouit> though only the first launched will be able to grab the volume keys
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, right :)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, any clue why i would get a 404 on the xubuntu-dev ppa?
<ochosi> a-ha, i also get the 404 in my browser:
<ochosi> http://ppa.launchpad.net/xubuntu-dev/ppa/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, the ppa isn't named ppa, but xfce-4.10
<ochosi> mr_pouit: gah thanks, how stupid of me...
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-20
<phillw> len-1310: do not be fooled by release numbers, olde wordle grub never got to release v1, and new grub is at 2.00.3 just to show it is grub v2 :)
<phillw> 0.97 is the old grub, which is still used by red hat systems :)
<len-1310> In LSCs case it seems to be the same one in 13.10 as 13.04
<len-1310> phillw, hen can I expect xfce4.12 to drop out of the sky?
<len-1310> s/hen/when
<Unit193> len-1310: Hopefully around alpha1.
<Len-nb> Will it replace 4.10 in the repos or would studio have to spec 4.12?
<Unit193> That's the idea, why would studio want to keep .10?
<Len-nb> Not
<Unit193> .12 has better dual monitor management.
<Len-nb> +1
<Len-nb> has the setting management changed?
<Len-nb> (settings manager)
<Unit193> I haven't actually seen it myself.  What part exactly?
<Len-nb> I am just wondering how much time I should spend editing it's menu file
<Len-nb> I guess I will find out :)
<Len-nb> Anything I can see on the xfce website is about 4.10
<Unit193> Sure, it's held up for some sad reason.  You can add the testing PPA, though.
<Unit193> The hope is that 4.12 will drop at the latest, Alpha 2.
<Len-nb> The only roadmap I can find for 4.12 is release dates (out of date) but there is no page that says these are the new features we are working on.
<Len-nb> I have actually gotten more from this irc channel than the xfce website or the #xfce irc
<Unit193> #xfce-dev may be more help, and talked about it in the last meeting or one of the hangouts.
<Unit193> http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/blog/article89/status-of-xfce-in-debian-ubuntu is a little older.
<Len-nb> I think I tried the -dev too. No matter, the best thing will be hands on. I hear there is a new menu editor as well. I don't like alacarte
<Len-nb> Following this channel (just reading without saying much) gets me the most info.
<Unit193> New menueditor is a shimmer project (ish) called menulibre, yep.
<Len-nb> What I have seen of it looks better than what we have.
<Unit193> I'm still missing seperator editing and structure/sorting of the menu, but in some other ways it is better.
<Len-nb> Users figure if there is a menu editor it should make any change they can conceive
<Len-nb> alacarte put _any_ user created desktop file in other
<Unit193> The Xubuntu docs don't validate: http://paste.openstack.org/show/EP2ybLXsT9HzQ4s4uhBu
<skellat> Hmm
<skellat> Lemme rebase my working branch
<skellat> Unit193: They appear to be cross-document references
<skellat> They rendered okay on docs.xubuntu.org
<Unit193> Yeah, things seem to work fine, just validator doesn't pass on them.
<skellat> Is there a form of being "fully qualified" that we need to render them in?
<skellat> knome: A merge for you to consider: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/164670
<Unit193> Well the tool still exists and is quite usable, even if it isn't shipped by default.  Before, there was talk (and still is) about aptoncd and keraxy (spelled very wrong.)
<Unit193> (Another workaround for flash would be to pull adobe-flashplugin from partner.)
<skellat> wget -c http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/Kubuntu/MumbleMeeting/KubuntuMumble-2013-05-20-.ogg 
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-21
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1104435 fixed in saucy, chance it'll get SRU'd to Raring?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1104435 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu Raring) "xfce4-session crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_alloc()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<phillw> Noskcaj: before nicholas sends out the email, are you okay with your allocation on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy for test drive? 
<Noskcaj> phillw, yep
<phillw> Noskcaj: any others you want to get involved in... get your name on the list!
<Noskcaj> is anyone willing to make an autopilot testcase for xubuntu?
<Unit193> knome: Found the old xubuntu-q.pdf seems we still didn't finish some postponed blueprints. :P  Bluebird and Albatross are both GTK3, menus editor has been sorted a little, but seems we wanted kbdleds in the repos (still do?) and something with plymouth and lightdm (that we did.)
<knome> kbdleds needed a patch or sth
<knome> i don't know the status of that
<Unit193> Sure, no big deal, just had noticed my tab complete found something other than just xubuntu-docs, and re-read the doc.
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Could we add a sane launcher for Additional drivers to Settings Manager or System?  It is supported with  software-properties-gtk --open-tab=4
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-23
<GridCube> its too late to add feature requests?
<GridCube> i would like to add a request for proxy settings on the settings manager
<ochosi> GridCube: you mean too late for feature-requests in xfce or xubuntu?
<GridCube> probably both isnt it?
<ochosi> well depends
<ochosi> xfce doesn't have anything network-related in the settings yet
<ochosi> so it'd have to be something rather new
<ochosi> and it could be that for that it's too late
<ochosi> but we can start doing it for xubuntu, i think it's a good idea to have something like that
<ochosi> (sucks a bit that nm-applet doesn't handle the proxies)
<GridCube> true
<GridCube> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-proxy-support
<GridCube> Â¿?
<GridCube> >marking the proxy tasks all postponed -- we're focusing on mobile, and it seems as though there is interest upstream in NM to do the proxy development, whereas I can't really spend time on it at this point. It will definitely come back later if it isn't relatively quickly implemented by NM upstream.
<GridCube> :/
<ochosi> yeah, there ya go
<ochosi> definitely better to do within nm-applet
<GridCube> can we poke nm upstream a bit?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> we can always try
<ochosi> i'd first try to find their roadmap or check the bugtracker, the feature must be mentioned somewhere
<GridCube> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/tree/TODO#n248
<ochosi> hm, sounds complicated...
<ochosi> not the kind of thing you code in an afternoon
<ochosi> and especially doesn't sound like anyone can easily do it, that task seems to demand some experience with network-manager and/or proxy-libs
<GridCube> and i imagine that the people with that knowhow already sets their proxies easily and wont bother to make it easier for the plebe
<ochosi> possible
<ochosi> i mean there's the obvious way of setting the ENV_VAR
<GridCube> that wont work for everything
<ochosi> yeah, and not for everyone ;)
<GridCube> the USC doesnt take its proxy settings from there
<GridCube> i have no idea where it takes it
<GridCube> i had to set the proxy on synaptic and then it worked on usc, no idea why, it didnt before 13.04
<matt_symes> Hi peeps. I have a problem with wireless (wl driver) broadcom 4313 [14e4:4727] on yesterdays xubuntu daily build - infact all builds under saucy. After a period of time the wireless will stop sending packets. Network manager thinks i'm still connected but i can't ping, resolve using dns or see any web pages
<matt_symes> Anybody else seeing this ? The netbook is a Lenovo S206
<matt_symes> If i stop network manager and and connect using a wpa_supplicant file to the router i still lose connectivity. 
<matt_symes> I notice that the broadcom driver has been updated from 6.20 to 6.30 under saucy. The thing is, if i keep network manager running and just disconnect and reconnect i regain connectivity. I increased wpa_supplicant debugging in the service file but could not see much wrong (although i', not 100% sure what to look for). There is nothing in syslog or dmesg that would point to the failure. I tried setting
<matt_symes> an arp entry to see if that was the problem (arp -a and route was taking a while to return values when connectivity had stalled). The only thing i have not done is use wireshark or tcpdump to look at the packets
<matt_symes> BTW: elfy suggested i post here before raising a bug to see i this was a known issue
<matt_symes> btw: 13.04 has been rock solid for wireless and general running :)
<matt_symes> one last thing, messing with the  cards power management made no difference
<pleia2> matt_symes: testing 13.10 or 13.04?
<pleia2> oh, you said daily build
<pleia2> I haven't heard of this issue and we're quite early in the cycle, I'd submit a but
<pleia2> bug
<matt_symes> 13.10 pleia2. one yesterdays daily iso, an update 13.04=>13.10 and from the liveusb of the daily
<pleia2> particularly with hardware issues it's not always common to find someone with an identical setup, so having hardware info is important
<matt_symes> No probs pleia2. I can supply all the info required
<pleia2> thanks for testing :)
<matt_symes> np. I raise a bug in the next hour or so. Food first :)
 * elfy 's mission to drag people to testing from forum starts to work pleia2 ;)
<pleia2> \o/
<Unit193> matt_symes: Strangely, I have a BCM problem I haven't looked at too hard in Raring, so far on installed system only. :P
<matt_symes> I did see a bug raised about arp and wl Unit193, but i'm not sure if this is the same issue as the bug was supposed to be fixed
<matt_symes> The thing is this netbook has no other connectivity
<Unit193> Bug #1156138 was one I hit.
<ubottu> bug 1156138 in bcmwl (Ubuntu) "bcmwl-kernel-source 6.20.155.1+bdcom-0ubuntu6: bcmwl kernel module failed to build [FATAL: modpost: GPL-incompatible module wl.ko uses GPL-only symbol '__rcu_read_unlock']" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156138
<matt_symes> I did not hit that one Unit193. I did hit another one where dkms would not build the wl driver. There was a patch on launchpad though so i added it to dkms and manually rebuilt the driver using dkms. That was on mainline 3.9 kernel though. This is happening with a vanilla install, liveusb and upgraded raring->saucy. I hit bug #1157880
<ubottu> bug 1157880 in bcmwl (Ubuntu) "bcmwl-kernel-source 6.20.155.1+bdcom-0ubuntu6: bcmwl kernel module failed to build on kernel 3.9 [wl_cfg80211.c:2025:3: error: too few arguments to function âcfg80211_put_bssâ]" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157880
<matt_symes> This bug is affecting the daily builds though
<Unit193> knome: Going to harass bluesabre now?
<bluesabre> whats up?
<Unit193> Heya, we were talking about options for keeping people (team members more so) online.
<bluesabre> I'm hoping to purchase a server to keep a screen soon
<bluesabre> I get paid tomorrow
<bluesabre> but if knome is going to provide...
<bluesabre> :)
<pleia2> I have a server specifically set aside to give fellow community members irc shell accounts
<bluesabre> oh
<Unit193> Awwh, but she wouldn't answer me. :(
<bluesabre> awesome pleia2!
<Unit193> bluesabre: What's your client of choice anyway?
<bluesabre> Everyone else uses irssi, so I suppose that will do
<bluesabre> I generally just use pidgin
<Unit193> I've noticed, you've made me sad.
<pleia2> Unit193: you said you'd be bad
<bluesabre> why, are you the last xchat user?
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> pleia2: Kidding, and was kidding about the grsec question. :P  (I was also kidding then, about ruled out for that reason, I'm ruled out for another one though.)  Sorry.
<pleia2> no monkeys on dagobah
<Unit193> :(
<Unit193> bluesabre: No, irssi here.
<bluesabre> ah
<pleia2> bluesabre: if you want an account, just lyz@ubuntu.com me a username and public ssh key (or link to one in launchpad)
<bluesabre> ok, I'll do that now, thanks pleia2!
<pleia2> I'm actually migrating to a new host soonish, but "soonish" is a lousy timeframe and means I probably won't do it for a while
<pleia2> maybe september, or june
<bluesabre> that sounds like my soonish software releases
<Unit193> pleia2: I'd assume not a thing I can help with in all of this?
<pleia2> Unit193: nope
<pleia2> thanks
<Unit193> Ko, just trying to be helpful.
<pleia2> unfortunately the server has been a bit wonky lately (unexpected reboots, boo) so I'm planning to move to linode now that they're cheaper instead of upgrading to debian 7 on this server, but that seems like a lot of work
<Unit193> Oh?  Checking now...
<bluesabre> pleia2, email sent
<pleia2> bluesabre: replied with a question :)
<bluesabre> ha
<bluesabre> yes
<pleia2> bluesabre: I need to go run some errands, we can debug later if you have trouble logging in
<bluesabre> thanks pleia2!
<bluesabre> woot, I'm in
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-24
<pleia2> familiar with screen and irssi?
<Unit193> No breaking things.
<pleia2> Unit193 can help you if not :)
 * pleia2 shopping
<bluesabre> found a tutorial, I should be able to figure it out
<Unit193> Wait, I can? :(
<knome> i should be able to assist as well.
<knome> pleia2, hf shopping!
<Unit193> http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi you need to bookmark, or at least read/skim that.
<knome> bluesabre, a good reminder at this point is to set up you chanserv password as the "server" password
<knome> *your
<Unit193> Umm... CertFP or SASL, actually.
<Unit193> http://jonathanbeluch.com/blog/2011/03/remote-notify-irssi-screen/ isn't loading, dangit.
<bluesabre> howto?
<bluesabre> I use SASL on my phone to connect, but theres a gui for it
<knome> ask Unit193 if you want to use SASL
<bluesabre> which is easier
<Unit193> https://gist.github.com/jbeluch/898734 is the basics for the page that isn't loading, and nice shortcuts may be http://niklas.laxstrom.name/page/eng/irssi
<bluesabre> ?
<Unit193> certfp, builtin.
<bluesabre> knome, how do I do certfp then :D
<knome> ask Unit193... :P
<Unit193> Well... SASL might be, I setup both.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://freenode.net/certfp/certfp-irssi.shtml
<Unit193> http://wiki.darenet.org/NickServ_CertFP_Auth that too, maybe.
<knome> Unit193, does one really need both?
<Unit193> knome: I don't know, does one really need certfp, sasl, and server password?
<Unit193> It's the best fallback, actually.
<knome> which is?
<knome> one needs that only to avoid that stupid double-join
<Unit193> knome: If services are gone when you login, when they come back you'll already be identified because of the cert and won't get kicked to guest9823.  I have all 3 setup, but I needed a SASL fallback as it failed a couple times.
<knome> and it's handy to be registered automatically even if you drop while you're away
<Unit193> knome: Yes.
 * knome looks at certs
<Unit193> my slightly modified notify-remote script http://paste.openstack.org/show/7GcX4yFG08TDygoLZ4cQ and my slightly modified other script: http://paste.openstack.org/show/op90HG8GoE5LlqKaOz0y
<Unit193> Also, if you have a slightly less trusted location, you can add another cert for it.
<Unit193> !doublejoin | was updated not to use server password.
<ubottu> was updated not to use server password.: Your IRC client is completing NickServ authentication after joining channels, which triggers a fake quit and rejoin to apply your cloak and increases channel noise. Please see https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nocloakonjoin and use SASL or another method to prevent this.
<knome> you told me that already
<knome> tbh, i'm not too worried about security
<knome> but maybe i should be because there are haywires like Unit193 out there:P
<Unit193> Heeey, I'm not crazy...  And I know I did.  Hrm, she said if he needed help, not just randomly give it...
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> http://unit193.tk/aliases are some of my aliases, if that helps... (ubupaste may as well be removed, though...)
<knome> well 'bunny' is most definitely useful,
<knome> and 'disco'
<Unit193> I do actually use them. :P
<knome> i'm sure you do.
<knome> let's see.
<skellat> So, I've been out and about today.  What's with the chatter about the ZNC?
<knome> hum
<knome> cert is not working as expected
<knome> everything i type appears twice
<knome> and irssi fails at re/drawing things correctly
<knome> boo!
<knome> jolly.
<knome> back at working irc
<Unit193> knome: ...Certfp wouldn't do that, it's just the auth method...
<knome> that still isn't very nice.
<bluesabre> test
<knome> bluesabre, you need a hand with that? :)
<bluesabre> I think I figured it out
<knome> bluesabre, did you run irssi under screen now?
<bluesabre> how do I scroll up?  :)
<knome> bluesabre, page up?
<bluesabre> yup, irssi in screen with ssl auth
<knome> :)
<Unit193> knome: I'm sorry, excuse me?
<knome> skellat, i was saying before that it'd be good if at least all -team members had some client hanging around in irc at all times.
<knome> skellat, then pleia2 offered her server for any member
<skellat> knome: Oh, like my ZNC set up then?
<knome> skellat, that would be good. :)
<knome> i think it helps with the communication, since most of it is happening in irc anyway
<skellat> ZNC is nice as it does do local logging too as well as a few other functions
<knome> whatever scratches your itch :)
<bluesabre> btw, thanks again pleia2!!!
<bluesabre> now knome can hold me accountable
<knome> bluesabre, http://temp.knome.fi/other/knome.theme
<knome> bluesabre, just sayin'...
<bluesabre> knome, I don't know what that is or how to use it
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bluesabre, it's an irssi theme
<knome> bluesabre, put it in ~/.irssi
<knome> bluesabre, then type /set theme knome.theme in irc
<knome> bluesabre, /set theme default if you don't like it.
<Unit193> /reload too.
<bluesabre> knome: how do I know if it worked?
<knome> bluesabre, when you run the first command and /reload, things should change a bit
<knome> bluesabre, it's not a huge departure, just making the irssi window a bit easier to follow imo
<Unit193> Pic so he knows what he's looking for?
<knome> "pics or it didn't happen!?" ?
<Unit193> Well, more of what it looks like.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/other/knome.theme.png
<Unit193> Ah, I see.
<bluesabre> nope, its not working for me
<Unit193> Oh, and already set autojoins?
<bluesabre> probably not, where's that magic?
<knome> bluesabre, hum. did you run /reload ?
<knome> bluesabre, /help channel for the autojoins
<Unit193> Hrm, I don't remember.  I generally did it by editing the config and haven't added the new channels yet. :P  (/help channel ?)
<bluesabre> knome, several times
<knome> bluesabre, but basically:
<knome> make sure you have a freenode "network"
<knome> /network list
<knome> shout if you don't see freenode
<knome> then make sure you have a server in that network
<knome> /server list
<bluesabre> ah
<Unit193> irc.freenode.net or chat.freenode.net
<bluesabre> after /reload it sets it back to default
<Unit193> You have to /save
<knome> when you have both, then start adding channels:
<bluesabre> gotta tell me these things :)
<knome> /channel add -auto #channel freenode
<knome> i can't remember the last time i changed my theme!
<knome> i've been stuck at this at least 6 years
<Unit193> Anywho, I'll assume knome knows more or as much as me on irssi.
<knome> probably played with some things more than you and the other way around
<Unit193> If you read the topic of #irssi, it says to not edit the config file.
<bluesabre> knome: theme working, looks good
<knome> bluesabre, great :)
<bluesabre> autos added
<bluesabre> thanks alot guys!
<bluesabre> now I gotta go hang out with the wife
 * bluesabre will stay connected even if his laptop dies!
<knome> hehe
<knome> hf with the wife
<knome> i'll go to bed
<Unit193> Good night.
<knome> my toe hurts and meh.
<knome> it's again too late.
<knome>  ->
<GridCube> I had to edit firefox, on about:config to disable extensions.blocklist.enabled because else the flash plugin was being disabled because it was marked as old and insecure
<GridCube> im using default ff20 in 13.04
<GridCube> !boot-repair is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-25
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<knome> hey elfy, ochosi 
<knome> i'll play some ps3 and then boot up my desktop machine
<knome> if there's something any of me want to look at, i'll be on that in an hour at latest
 * ochosi will go get some really late breakfast now
<ochosi> elfy: i wanted to ask you whether you could test both lightdm-gtk-greeter from the daily ppa (we're planning to do a new release really soon) and greybird from git (without that, the greeter won't be themed properly)
<ochosi> elfy: https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily
<ochosi> elfy: and https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<ochosi> bbiab
<elfy> ochosi: of course - it might be tomorrow - suffering a headache after fighting with bzr and testcases for the first time 
<ochosi> elfy: sorry to hear! yeah sure, anytime would be great
<elfy> I'll be much more with it in the morning :)
<ochosi> elfy: the layout of the greeter has changed a bit, but the important thing would be that everything is readable and looking ok
<ochosi> well, and that it works :)
<elfy> ha ha ha - ok - I'll report back tomorrow I expect :)
<knome> https://twitter.com/Woogy_7/status/333648122108592128
<knome> original message, mostly
<elfy> :)
<knome> the rest is just mac fanboy talk ;)
<lderan> aye
<ochosi> gotta honestly say that USC is far more responsive in R
<knome> that's a good thing i suppose
<elfy> really? 
<ochosi> yeah, it's still ugly looking unfortunately
<elfy> I still found it dog slow 
<ochosi> the UI is kinda overloaded with stuff, wondering who designed that
<knome> elfy, dogs aren't slow...
<elfy> someone with rings on their fingers, bells on their toes, they shall bling, wherever they go 
<knome> anyway, i'm off
<elfy> knome: sorry I'll be more specific next time
<elfy> cya
<knome> the humming from the pc is boring to listen to :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> see you! :)
<ochosi> hf
<knome> you too
<pleia2> knome: so with twitter integration on the website I'm worried it'll look really cheesy
<pleia2> (it usually does)
<lderan> agreed
<pleia2> so if we really want to address https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1006371 I think we need someone to do a non-sucky mock-up
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006371 in Xubuntu Website "Add newest tweets to frontpage" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<pleia2> hi lderan :)
<knome> pleia2, i can make it look good.
<knome> pleia2, but that's not the only consideration
<lderan> hi pleia2 :D
<pleia2> I need to run out
<knome> hf pleia2 
<pleia2> see you
<jjfrv8> knome, I just pushed revision 42 to my branch. I edited an entry in the xubuntu.ent file. Don't know if I'm supposed to do that.
<knome> jjfrv8, that's fine. i'll look at it in a moment :)
<knome> skellat, the status isn't "merged" yet. i didn't merge it... :)
<skellat> knome: Crud.  Could you please fix that since I can't?
<knome> skellat, i'm about to do it soon though
<knome> i did. :)
<skellat> Thank you
<knome> skellat, jjfrv8: feel free to set me (knome) as the reviewer when you send merge proposals
<skellat> What's the diff that LP is flagging at lines 84 & 85?  I'm not seeing it. https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/xubuntu-docs/managing-apps-edit/+merge/165753
<knome> skellat, last sentence
<skellat> Ah
<knome> skellat, +"can be found"
 * skellat figures he needs to set a bigger font size one of these days...or go find his glasses...
<jjfrv8> knome, it looks like you are set as a reviewer on my last push, did you do that yourself?
<knome> jjfrv8, that's probably done automatically since i reviewed it before
<jjfrv8> OK, I'll remember to set it on my next one.
<knome> can't remember if i added myself as the reviewer or not
<knome> probably yes if you didn't :)
<knome> skellat, jjfrv8: both merges approved and merged.
<knome> thanks!
<skellat> Cool
<skellat> Now I need to rebase my local copy of the branch
<knome> :)
<jjfrv8> Thank you!
<knome> bzr pull
<knome> jjfrv8, no problem!
<knome> jjfrv8, also: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/saucy/revision/43 :)
<knome> yay for fixing xfce bug 8284
<ubottu> xfce bug 8284 in General "Tabsize too big" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8284
<skellat> And now that UNRELEASED is removed and saucy is in place we should start build for the dailies
<knome> skellat, we should get it uploaded to saucy then :)
<knome> skellat, want to work on sponsored uploads?
<knome> i don't even know how much more we would need with this. it's pretty much ready for an upload.
<skellat> Give pleia2 a chance to poke and prod as well
<knome> sure
<knome> i'll give her any chances she wants :P
<knome> (and don't get me wrong...)
<skellat> I'll shoot for Wednesday or Thursday to get it into sponsor pool perhaps
<knome> ta
 * skellat bugs out to go shopping for a lawn mower
<knome> hf
<OvenWerks> knome: the changes xubuntu has done with settings in the menu. Do you know if any of that style of things is being done upstream?
<OvenWerks> (This is Len from studio)
<knome> OvenWerks, i would believe not
<OvenWerks> So they would still have both a settings manager and a settings menu?
<knome> yes
<OvenWerks> OK.
<knome> it's still possible to have both in xubuntu as well..
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> Right now not in studio
<knome> we just thought it's cleaner if we organize things like this
<OvenWerks> I agree
<OvenWerks> I have set the settings menu not to show. Even if a new app shows up we haven't thought of.
 * elfy still doesn't believe it should be described as customise desktop anymore though even if ochosi does :)
<OvenWerks> User customization is a whole other topic :)
<OvenWerks> We just found that having a settings manger for some settings and a menu for others (with some duplicats) was confusing
<elfy> nothing to do with user customisation 
<elfy> at least my bug with the description :)
<OvenWerks> I know, everything to do with what we were shipping though
<knome> elfy, i agree that not all of the items are just "user" customization
<OvenWerks> The whole category thing is less than perfect. We had a num,ber of settings things in other that belong in proper categories too.
<OvenWerks> But then Studio has a mix of apps xfce, gnome and even KDE
<elfy> I can see that getting a bit mixed up 
<OvenWerks> We also have an audio category in our settinsg manager
<pleia2> knome: flyer drafts?
<knome> pleia2, i have them, but i lack content
<knome> pleia2, but yes, i should export them
<knome> pleia2, do you want it in the wiki?
<pleia2> I have a volunteer who keeps joining to help, was waiting on them :)
<knome> awesome
<pleia2> wiki is fine
<knome> who is (s)he?
<pleia2> amerigena
<knome> áá, áá¡áá¦
<pleia2> he posted to the list in march about helping, I keep missing him on irc but I can follow up in email
<knome> UM!
<knome> can somebody tell me
<knome> why has the terminal started changing the input method on the fly?
<knome> that comment was in inuktitut
<knome> !
<elfy> but what did it say ... 
<pleia2> oh right, I am taking the day off
<knome> pleia2, from work or from foss? :P
<lderan> have fun
<knome> pleia2, have fun! :)
<elfy> pleia2: have fun 
<knome> i need to organize my xubuntu-dirs
<knome> pleia2, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Flyers is updated
#xubuntu-devel 2013-05-26
<knome> skellat, i think micahg said anything that's in the xubuntu seed is in the xubuntu packageset
<elfy> ochosi: I installed the ppa and the new greybird, it all appeared to work - however at the login screen - very very dark and no way to change session or anything - all I could do was either login as me or guest
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> the session controls are in the upper right now :)
<elfy> oh right ;)
<elfy> wish I'd been told that before :p I'd have checked them out lol 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> as a quick changelog..
 * elfy doesn't use that install much it is more or less as installed with no music ... 
<bluesabre> session and locale are in the system tray
<bluesabre> a clock can be enabled by adding some settings to lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<elfy> oh right - you want me to check that as well?
<bluesabre> you're welcome to, but you shouldn't have to
<bluesabre> are the symbolic icons and text showing up as the white-like color?
<elfy> so what does need checking - login (which I've done) and session and locale 
<elfy> in the top right?
<bluesabre> yeah
<elfy> didn't notice them - login box was DARK - couldn't really read it very well 
<elfy> couple of minutes and I'll be back
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - yes the symbolic icons in the top right are 'white' and readable 
<bluesabre> most things should be dark, but the text and icons should all have a nice contrast and be visible
<bluesabre> good
<elfy> for what it's worth - I'd 'prefer' to see those top right icons with rounded corners - they look rather stark
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<elfy> did restart from the icon - the 'selecte'd option ie you want to restart was readable, but the other 'no I don't want to' was again unreadable 
<bluesabre> ah
<elfy> all looks ok in general and works - but I'd prefer to be able to read the 'unused option's to be more apparent
<elfy> the login box itself - can just read username - password box is fine - login button is just readable
<elfy> bluesabre: does that help and make sense? 
<bluesabre> I think so
<elfy> ok :)
<bluesabre> Would you mind installing xserver-xephyr and then running lightdm --test-mode
<elfy> you think it helps or you think it makes sense :p
<elfy> sigh - more time without music :( 
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> if you do the above command you can take a screenshot since it will keep you in your session
<elfy> aah cool 
<knome> elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ReleaseProcess
<knome> elfy, add things as you feel appropriate!
<elfy> ok
<elfy> brb - off to boring install again :)
<forestpiskie> bluesabre: 
<forestpiskie> http://imagebin.org/259009
<bluesabre> thanks!
<bluesabre> ochosi ^^
<bluesabre> thats a bug forestpiskie, one that ochosi has not been getting :)
<knome> PEBKAC?
<bluesabre> ..?
<knome> "problem exists between keyboard and chair" ?
<bluesabre> I've never heard that one before :D
<forestpiskie> bluesabre anything else I can do here?
<bluesabre> that should do it
<bluesabre> Thanks a lot!
<forestpiskie> ok :)
<elfy> bluesabre: if there's anything else just ask 
<bluesabre> sure thing
<elfy> knome: and it's pebkacmya :p
<knome> hmmm... :P
<elfy> suppose I could have used a vm - just thought it would be a better test with real hardware
<knome> real hardware is always cool
<elfy> yea
<micahg> knome: well, anything in universe should be in the seed
<micahg> knome: err...packageset
<micahg> errr...anything in universe in the seed should be in the packageset
<knome> micahg, mmh, yeah
<knome> micahg, maybe note that in the wikipage
<micahg> which one?
<knome> micahg, let me find that for you
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/EnablingXubuntuDevelopers
<knome> that one
<knome> so, i'm working on xubuntu website improvements
<knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
<knome> how does the new navigation look?
<lderan> looks cool 
<Unit193> Hah, fade-through looks terrible on here. :D
<Unit193> knome: Looks great!
<knome> good
<knome> heh
<knome> "looks terrible" == "looks great" ok
<elfy> well that appears to be the initial autopilot question answered then 
<Unit193> Missed "on here", the i915 driver hates me on raring.  I'd recommend changing the wording to something like "Click here for more, bigger, screenshots!"
<knome> i'm about to change that completely!
<knome> i mean, i have grand plans for it
<knome> let's see about those now then. :)
<Unit193> Ah, alrighty-o.  I'm for more too, as on ML.
<knome> Unit193, linky-link better now?
<Unit193> And it works too!  Sure, I liked it below better, but that's just me, I'll get used to this.
<knome> well just trying things out
<knome> Unit193, what about that?
<Unit193> I like that one better, yeah.
<knome> yeah, cleaner too
<knome> what do we think about the button icons?
<knome> those aren't in the new navigation, but do we really need them there? or in the footer?
<Unit193> Brings more attention to them, and getting Xubuntu or help I'd think is the main reason for the site. (More or less.)
<knome> okay
<knome> will have to look at that then.
<knome> Unit193, something like that? (just a really quick mockup)
<Unit193> Erm, they look "off", like they are sliding off the bottom.
<knome> just dismiss that part
<knome> i'll make them look better to if that works if this is generally a good direction
<knome> *to see
<Unit193> I don't know, up there it looks a bit odd, but could just be the placement, or actually size.
<knome> Unit193, that placement looks better?
<Unit193> Yep, but do you think smaller is better?  (I'm not the webdesigner!)
<knome> i'm thinking i'd drop the circle shape
<knome> just too lazy to do that if that doesn't look like a good direction
<knome> but let's see
<knome> Unit193, like that?
<Unit193> Yes, get involved being the best as it is centered on the image.
<knome> mmh, yeah, why not
<knome> the problem with those is that if we want to add menu items, we will need new icons and a change in code
<Unit193> Well of course you can try something more reasonable.
<knome> there's nothing that comes with images that's any more reasonable :)
<knome> that's the issue
<lderan> i like the images in the little circles myself
<knome> now?
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> and now the bg colors should be as designed as well
<knome> the get involved -image needs work though
<knome> better?
<lderan> yeah
<knome> ...aaand once more
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/saucy/revision/42 Hrm, I know we don't ship it, but this mean we're cutting out all info about apt-offline-gui?
<skellat> Qt-based, violates strategy document
<knome> Unit193, yeah.
<Unit193> Ehhh...
<knome> Unit193, oi?
<knome> played a bit with the links on the frontpage
<knome> (left side)
<knome> i think that's pretty nice now
<knome> we should incorporate about eg. "read more..." with the tour anyway
<skellat> I sync'ed the 1.3 version of apt-offline from sid to my PPA.  It looks like apt-offline-gui is slowly being deprecated.
<Unit193> Makeing screenshots small? ;)
<knome> how's that?
<elfy> knome: if there's a bug for a testcase and I'm going to do it - how can I mark it in some way so that others know I'm doing it?
<elfy> without having to leave pointless comments in the bug
<knome> elfy, i imagine setting yourself as the assignee :)
<elfy> ok - simple as that is it :)
<knome> yup
<elfy> all new to me :)
<elfy> done 2 now 
<elfy> /happy 
<knome> :)
<elfy> I'm not going to worry about autopilot until I can get a definitive on whether it will even work in Xubuntu
<Noskcaj> ditto ^
<knome> Noskcaj, why don't you find out if it does?
<elfy> Noskcaj: so can I leave you to check into findinf out if it works for us? 
<elfy> oh d'oh ...snap
<knome> :)
<elfy> knome: we going to be having first meeting soon? 
<knome> yeah, i should announce it
<knome> this or next weeks thu
<knome> not sure about my own schedule for this weeks thu yet, so can't announce just yet
<elfy> k 
<knome> feel free to do some unofficial impromptu meetings :)
<elfy> so we know sort of about where I will be - this thursday I'm not working - next thursday I will be, rinse and repeat 
<knome> did you look at the new website staging stuff yet ? :)
<knome> aha, is friday this week any better?
<knome> around 15 utcish
<elfy> and if it's at the same sort of time as last one's I attended then I can't ever attend if I'm working
<knome> because that's another possibility
<knome> aha
<knome> how much later should we push that?
<knome> 17utc?
<elfy> this friday would be ok - I work week on week off 
<elfy> very hard to tell - I work until the ill people have their meds :)
<knome> okay
<elfy> but in general Thurs/Fri I work till somewhere between 5 and 6 
<elfy> mmm
<knome> 5/6 utc?
<elfy> so that's 1600/1700 UTC at this moment - summer time
<knome> oki
<elfy> but as they are usually not every week if we started this week that would work for me 
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'll take that into consideration
<knome> i have no problems meeting on even weeks
<elfy> k
<elfy> but as you say we can always have improptu ones when necessary 
<knome> most definitely
<knome> all contributor-to-contributor communication is encouraged
<knome> and since i'm usualyly around more or less every day... :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> well - twice a month some am I for a week at a time usually :)
<knome> i think that's a good cadence
<elfy> yep 
<knome> (see, picking up the buzzwords)
<elfy> see me just agreeing ... 
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Nice part is doing them in here, much easier to read backlog.
<elfy> buzzwords ... make elfy go zzzzzz
<elfy> Unit193: totally agree 
<knome> Unit193, definitely. -devel over -offtopic too ;)
<knome> brb
<Unit193> knome: meetingology isn't in -offtopic. ;)
<knome> Unit193, sure. but impromptu meetings do not need a bot
<elfy> just a pot of coffee 
<knome> :D
<knome> ypup
<knome> uhm
<elfy> so why doesn't /away work in irssi then 
<knome> elfy, it does!
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> do you have to give a reason or just /away
<knome> a reason
<knome> see -ot ;)
<Noskcaj> autopilot advantages: speeds up post-install tests and possibly live session tests, once the ubiquity part is done ISO tests will be a lot faster. Cons: a lot of time to make (both testcases and making autopilot work fully with xubuntu)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-19
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hey
<ochosi> how's it going?
<sergio-br2> well, don't touch anything since that day
<sergio-br2> one thing i realized using unity
<sergio-br2> thumbnails in nautilus is active by default, and mimetype for text files such as .c, .cpp, .txt and .lua, they not appear
<sergio-br2> in humanity theme, text-x-preview is a .icon file, not a png or svg
<sergio-br2> so, you have a thumbnail showing a small fraction of your text. But using elementary, all them are blank.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i think i'd consider that a bug in nautilus rather than a feature
<ochosi> don't think there's much we can do about that
<ochosi> thumbnails are also activated by default in thunar, but not all thumbnailers are installed by defaut
<ochosi> default
<sergio-br2> only for pictures?
<ochosi> i think there's a tumbler-extras package or something
<ochosi> pics and pdfs mostly
<ochosi> and movie files i think
<ochosi> but there can always be pics or movies where the thumbnailing service fails for some reason to create a thumbnail
<sergio-br2> hum, so in nautilus, if  text-x-preview is a png or svg icon, it should use the default mimetypes of text files, instead a thumbnail?
<sergio-br2> it makes more sense
<sergio-br2> hum, tumbler-plugin-extra you said ?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> in thunar you have very fine-grain control over thumbnailing
<ochosi> you can enable specific thumbnailers only for some directories etc
<sergio-br2> i will see this in trusty, maybe nautilus got improvements in this
<sergio-br2> see you later !
<bluesabre> morning ochosi
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> andrew has quite a few branches for the greeter in the pipe btw
<ochosi> not only the one/s i referenced in the email today
<ochosi> there's one for orca support (which would be great, i think)
<bluesabre> saw all that, yeah, let's roll them into trunk
<ochosi> as we've both been a bit slow processing his merge-requests i thought it's a good idea to motivate him to occasionally just push to trunk too
<ochosi> especially when it's bugfix
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll try to merge those in this morning/tonight
<bluesabre> working on the debian merge atm
<ochosi> for the 1.8.5 release?
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i'm really curious how the whole gtk3-only transition and using only a single window for the greeter will mess with all the positioning code
<bluesabre> it will greatly simplify it
<ochosi> yeah, and i guess there won't be such a big need for checking whether the window is offscreen
<bluesabre> GtkOverlay lets you easily specify where the overlay items will be placed
<ochosi> cause it'll be inside a window
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> just checked another item on the todo-list for xfpm today
<ochosi> mostly one thing left to do, then we'll do a huge merge/push to the git repo
<ochosi> and then a dev release
<ochosi> really looking forward to that
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe we could look at the lid-close stuff again together soonis
<ochosi> h
<ochosi> i think the patch by eric needs to be tweaked/extended a little
<bluesabre> ok, I'll probably be free this evening
<ochosi> cool, can't promise yet but i'll try
<knome> what do people generally think about the timespan for voting on the mailing list?
<ochosi> i'm currently considering a 1-week period for votes like the one we're holding about the MÃL
<knome> MÃL ?
<ochosi> yeah, MÃ¯Â¿Â½L
<ochosi> that's a common shorthand for mailinglist in german ;D
<knome> aha ;)
<knome> i thought a with ~ was more connected to spanish ;)
<knome> anyway, another idea is...
<knome> we could *begin* the voting on the ML, then finish it off in a meeting
<knome> currently people voted on the meeting, *then* we got the arguments on the ML
<knome> so in a way, the votes on the meeting might not have been as informed as votes after the arguments
<slickymasterWork> I agree with knome 
<slickymasterWork> or else will be dragging the vote
<knome> i guess we all agree there has to be some deadline
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: well the dragging is only a problem if there is no fixed maximum period
<ochosi> yeah
<slickymasterWork> but is that maximum period fixed?
<knome> i don't see why it wouldn't be
<ochosi> knome: in this current vote, we *did* have a discussion on the ML first
<knome> ochosi, sure, but some of the arguments weren't posted before the voting :)
<slickymasterWork> just asking because I don't remember when it was fixed
<knome> which i guess can be pinpointed to be another problem
<knome> slickymasterWork, it wasn't... there is no deadline for this vote
<slickymasterWork> hence my question
<slickymasterWork> but I do agree with your reasoning knome 
<ochosi> knome: i can also point arguments on the ML after this vote is finished... that can always happen
<ochosi> i think that the order in which we executed this vote was fine
<ochosi> first put the proposal on the mailinglist
<ochosi> then discuss in the meeting, then vote
<knome> ochosi, absolutely... what i'm saying is it would benefit the voters (and ultimately, the project) most if arguments were made in advance
<ochosi> yeah, there's no arguing with that :)
<knome> we could have had more time between the proposal and voting
<ochosi> pleia2: ^ did you read that ;D
<knome> otoh...
<knome> we really should just decide/vote
<knome> to not drag along
<ochosi> yeah, discussions are fine, but i wanna get things done too
<knome> hardly any decisions are irreversible
<ochosi> yeah, and the proposal even contained a sort of "natural deadline" to the "lockdown"
<knome> and finally, those who do, decide... so if somebody is away for more than a week or two (from the original proposal to voting ending), it's fair to not count their vote
<knome> anyway, i'm off to buy some food
<knome> bbl
<elfy> the other question re this vote on m/l is - what happens if not enough people vote to get quorum?
<elfy> I think that a week - given that it was on the agenda for at least as long as the discussion first started
<elfy> however, perhaps there is some virtue in - discuss on m/l vote on m/l in the week leading up to the next irc meeting - final vote in the irc meet - then everyone knows exactly when the vote will end
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not sure though that this (slightly complicated) process, even though it might bear some virtue, is very feasible in practice
<ochosi> imo we can keep voting as we did, try to announce votes (that aren't adhoc) previously on the ML
<ochosi> and then if we don't have a quorum extend the voting for a week to the ML
<elfy> I'm just throwing out thoughts - though I think the only complicated thing is knowing that we might want to vote on something :)
<elfy> anyway - I'm pretty easy about it 
<ochosi> yup, same here :)
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1318307
<ubottu> bug 1318307 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "accounts-daemon rewrite /var/lib/AccountsService/users/xxx file every time workspace is changed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318307
<brainwash> any idea?
<brainwash> it can be only cause by xfdesktop, because it's the only Xfce app which has been patched to support accountsservice
<brainwash> caused
<ali1234> correct
<ali1234> xfdesktop now has per-workspace wallpapers
<ali1234> accounts service does not
<ali1234> so each time you switch workspace, it writes the new wallpaper to accounts service
<ali1234> this is just a guess
<brainwash> yes, I think this is what's going on
<brainwash> we... uhm, ochosi needs to adjust the patch then :)
<brainwash> but it should work properly
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xfdesktop4/trusty/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch
<brainwash> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "overlay-scrollbar"
<brainwash> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "unity-gtk-module"
<brainwash> ali1234: any idea? ^
<ali1234> about what?
<brainwash> why something tries to load these gtk modules and fails?
<ali1234> bug 1307657
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<brainwash> woot
<brainwash> still not fixed
<ali1234> patch available though
<ali1234> poke tedg if it you have a specific problem caused by this... at the moment it is relatively harmless on a default setup
<ali1234> (and attente)
<brainwash> I thought that people which use xubuntu + unity have this problem
<ali1234> yes, but that isn't a default setup
<ali1234> and they're not al unity's fault either, eg fork() after gtk_init()
<brainwash> but this cannot be a reason to not upload the patched version
<ali1234> the patch hasn't even been merged upstream yet
<brainwash> once a final release is out everything is going in slowmotion
<ali1234> start chasing people then :)
<brainwash> I already left the ubuntu channels :P
<ali1234> the thunar crash should be fixed soonish... the fix is in saucy-proposed now
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-20
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> just sent out the ultimate "please add/remove software X"-temptation email to the devel ML
<elfy> I hope you [TEAM]'d it :D
<elfy> that'll make all the difference apparently ... 
<ali1234> i think you all have deficient email clients
<ali1234> if you can't keep up with the flood of messages on xubuntu-devel
<ali1234> it must be what, 5 a day?
<elfy> ali1234: I don't have an issue with that at all
<ochosi> ali1234: i wanted to ask you this before, but would something like a fade-to-black before the X11 screensaver blanks the screen be best implemented in the compositor or somewhere else?
<ali1234> that should be in the screensaver i think
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> knome: can we have social sharing buttons on the xubuntu.org/news posts?
<ali1234> i have a plugin for that which does not rely on any funky api nonsense
<ochosi> knome: ^ :)
<ochosi> ali1234: i'm not sure though it'll be easy to install plugins there with the little amount of control we seem to have over the installation...
<ali1234> probably not, no
<ochosi> also, those changes seem to take forever every time
<ali1234> you can put it in the theme functions.php though
<ochosi> the locking article could've been published two months ago almost
<ochosi> we couldn't add the css, so i doubt we can edit functions.php :)
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/share-buttons
<ali1234> probably has many bugs
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ali1234: if there's anything you'd wanna work on in this cycle feel free to let me know so we can add it to a blueprint
<ali1234> fixing bugs...
<ali1234> i want to fix this xfce panel bug with multimonitor, but it is a really deep problem
<ali1234> also corner tiling
<ochosi> right, corner tiling
<ochosi> those are mostly things we'd wanna fix upstream
<ochosi> and try to get a new xfwm4 release into utopic
<knome> we can edit functions.php... but it's not any easier than getting a plugin in
<knome> and since it is so, i'd rather keep it out of the theme :)
<knome> i can't see any plugins for that, but we should probably ask canonical first if they had some "known" ones they'd prefer us to use
<knome> ochosi, re: blueprints, is there something that you'd like me to work on during the next cycle that is or isn't on the blueprints yet?
<ochosi> knome: it'd be great if you could work a bit on the "document our processes" stuff
<ochosi> because you know a lot (maybe the most) about that
<ochosi> and it'd be sustainable to write it down
<ochosi> as long as you still remember it ;)
<knome> i've been putting it down as i've noticed it's missing
<ochosi> cool
<knome> i added greybird-a11y to the artwork blueprint
<knome> as you probably notices
<knome> *noticed
<ochosi> yup
<knome> what about the wallpaper?
<knome> do you want me to keep thinking about it?
<ochosi> well i'm happy if you wanna keep working on that
<knome> i can do that
<ochosi> i didn't assign it to you straight away because you said you wanted a break
<knome> just assigned myself
<ochosi> and i wasn't sure what that entailed
<knome> well, yeah, a break from leading responsibilities
<ochosi> sure
<knome> i'm still doing this and that in the ubuntu community, so...
<knome> btw, we got green light for our loco theme from the trademarks team
<knome> refresher: this one: http://ufistaging.lallinaho.fi/
<ochosi> congrats
<ochosi> yeah, i remember
<knome> yeah, and the web team is interested to work with me
<ochosi> hey, running off to other teams is TABOO! :)
<knome> lol
<knome> just on the theme ;)
<knome> and to be clear: the canonical web team
<knome> not the community :P
<ochosi> oh, $$$ :D
<knome> haha!
<knome> not really i suspect
<knome> but hey, who knows what comes out of it
<knome> i'm not keeping hopes or specifically trying to follow that path in the hoep of moolah
<ochosi> if you have other ideas for the blueprints, please feel free to just add them
<ochosi> we can have a discussion over what gets in at a meeting or so
<knome> i'll do tht
<knome> but probably not too much
<knome> i'm avoiding thinking :P
<ochosi> but for now we still have this post-LTS vacuum
<knome> yep
<knome> perfect time to work on other projects
<knome> and non-release-schedule-based ones
<ochosi> yeah, i still would like to see ali1234's panel-switch app in xubuntu
<ochosi> (well, ideally upstream directly in the panel, but hey...)
<knome> yeah, that'd be nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you need anything else for the 1.8.5 sync request?
<ochosi> or do we just wait at this point
<bluesabre> nope, actually uploading the debdiffs right now
<ochosi> also, as a member of the US part of our team, what other meeting time would work for you?
<ochosi> i'm considering scheduling another meeting soon
<ochosi> and wanna try a different daytime agai
<ochosi> n
<bluesabre> any time before 12mm UTC was actually quite good for me, other than that, anytime after 11pm UTC
<bluesabre> otherwise I take my laptop to work and tether to my phone
<ochosi> ok, thanks for the heads up
<ochosi> pleia2: as another member from the US, what time works for you?
<ochosi> bluesabre: shall we try to look at the lid bug again tonight?
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll try to make it online at a reasonable time
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> if you can, lemme know if you can't make it
<ochosi> or if you prefer the other way round, that also works :)
<ochosi> (just so that i know how hard to try to be online)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1320830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320830 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> so is there anyone to poke or will it just get done?
<bluesabre> the sponsors will probably pick it up
<bluesabre> or maybe I can poke Logan_ or micahg
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> sounds good :)
<ochosi> bbabl
<ochosi> elfy: we have a staging PPA now, as soon as there are packages for it, this one and the xubuntu-dev one will be used for testing: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xubuntu-staging
<ochosi> fyi, micahg rejected creating one PPA per series, because PPAs can hold multiple series (which is true)
<knome> ochosi, sure, otoh, we might not want to test *all of it* in the a release
<knome> or to put it otherwise, all packages in the PPA might not be relevant
<ochosi> knome: yeah, ppl will have to filter the view according to the release they're using to see the relevant packages
<ochosi> (in launchpad)
<ochosi> for installing packages it mostly won't matter
<knome> well, that's not what i meant
<knome> well, for installing packages it might matter
<ochosi> not sure i get what you mean
<knome> nvm
<knome> too hot to explain
<ochosi> ali1234: say, would it be possible to convert all trayicons to "indicators" in the sense that they'd be toggle-buttons with left-click menus attached?
<ochosi> i mean in the panel
<knome> where else do we have trayicons than panel? :P
<ochosi> well one way would be to create panel-plugins for specific things, like nm-applet
<ochosi> (as an alternative to the indicators, i mean)
<elfy> ochosi: thanks 
<pleia2> ochosi: any time after 1700 UTC (can usually do 1600, but in the winter that's early)
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, thanks, will try to set the next meeting time so you'll be able to make it
<ochosi> any specific weekdays that don't work?
<pleia2> ochosi: nope, all are fine
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> will try to set a meeting asap then
<pleia2> hooray blueprints
<ochosi> elfy: well it *is* moving forward, yeah
<ochosi> i think that we know how to fix the bug and that we have a semi-working patch
<ochosi> but it still needs to be tweaked and maybe eve extended a little
<elfy> ok cool ty
<ochosi> we actually planned to sit down tonight and take a look at it (we = me and bluesabre)
<elfy> aah ok - I'll see what piskie has to show me tomorrow
<ochosi> yup, we'll try to keep you posted
<ochosi> pleia2: i presume the posts on xubuntu.org/news don't land on gÃ+ automagically, right?
<pleia2> ochosi: nope, facebook is the only magic
<ochosi> if that is the case, would you mind putting the last one about locking to g+ (and along the way show me how?)
<pleia2> ochosi: you can do it! I can show you how
<ochosi> could we make the g+ thingy automatic too though?
<pleia2> no, G+ sucks and has no api
<ochosi> oh :/
<knome> ochosi, interested in twitter as well? :)
<pleia2> ochosi: go to your google plus page and click on your face in the top right and select "Xubuntu" page
<ochosi> knome: nah, i'm only interested in the things i'm using myself ;)
<knome> hehe, sure
<pleia2> once that loads can just add in a link to the link thingy, usually I say some stuff about the post too
<knome> i'll tweet it anyway though
<pleia2> knome: thanks :)
<knome> tweeted
<ochosi> knome: thanks :) you know that i *meant* "interested in doing myself.."
<knome> ochosi, yeah, that's ok, i can keep managing the twitter account
<ochosi> btw, why the news and blog duplication on x.org?
<knome> hm?
<pleia2> news and blog are different things (and blog includes news)
<knome> the blog has *all* articles
<knome> news are announcements
<knome> articles is pretty much everything else
<knome> but practically we could have even more categories
<knome> they would all show up in blog
<knome> but not in news/articles
<pleia2> suppose we should write FAQ soon
<knome> we haven't done that in a few cycles
<pleia2> but now I'm giving myself work :( who made me talk in here
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> 12.10 last one
<pleia2> yeah, it's time again I think
<knome> yep, at least for LTS releases
<knome> that said, we might want to review the wording at the help page
<knome> "Also visit our Frequently Asked Questions, available for Xubuntu 11.10 and onward."
<knome> i wonder if bruno would be willing to continue this trend of the FAQ articles, would take the workload off of pleia2 
<knome> and is something that can be done in small junks at a time
<knome> which, afaiu, is required at the moment for work for bruno
<ochosi> pleia2: could you check whether it got posted? it first seemed it didnt, then it seemed like it did twice... my connection is a bit flaky here
<pleia2> ochosi: posted twice at first, but looks good now
<ochosi> ok, ty
<ochosi> Ã+1'd and reshared
<knome> Ã ?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, i have no idea why my screen session has lost its ability to handle odd characters
<ochosi> i only see question marks on black ground for the tilde
<knome> huhu
<ochosi> (and i can't even remove it by backspacing it away)
<ochosi> maybe it's also irssi
<knome> mm
<knome> i'm too lazy to debug it with you now, but ask me some time later
<ochosi> will try something now...
<ochosi> fixed
<knome> :)
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj_ 
<Noskcaj_> hey ochosi
<ochosi> welcome back - good to see you around again :)
<ochosi> to answer your question from the mailinglist
<ochosi> i haven't set the next meeting time yet
<Noskcaj_> I think i said this in the mailing list, but the hardware part of my dev pc is finally working, and i should have a new laptop later this week
<knome> allÃ¶ Noskcaj_, and welcome to assign yourself some work items ;)
<Noskcaj_> ok
<Noskcaj_> hey knome
<Noskcaj_> not quite yet
<ochosi> Noskcaj_: just wondering, what daytime/nighttime (in UTC) would be good for you in terms of meetings?
<Noskcaj_> ochosi: 2000-2200UTC, or 0800-1200UTC
<Noskcaj_> 6-8am and 4-8pm in my time
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> just trying to figure out a different meeting time for the next meeting :)
<Noskcaj_> Are there any issues with booting to uefi?
<Noskcaj_> My live usb is broken
<ochosi> no idea, i don't have such a new machine ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: as another US based member, would 20UTC work for you?
<ochosi> or, what other times would/nt work
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<Unit193> ochosi: Sounds do-able, aye.
<ochosi> ok, then i'll do a US friendly version this time around
<knome> 20UTC is getting kind of pretty late here, but i can do that
<elfy> knome: you utc+2 atm?
<knome> +3
<elfy> aah - normally +2 
<knome> (yes it's 2am+ here now and i'm still up, no complaints about 20UTC i guess ;))
<knome> yeah, but DST stuff
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<Unit193> 1900 worked for me too. :P
 * elfy sends pa bug and watches it disappear for ever 
<ochosi> there'll always be problems
<ochosi> frankly i wouldn't mind if we just managed to fix two meeting times
<ochosi> and alternate between the two
<ochosi> but for now let's try to let the chairs decide
<elfy> that would be better I think than random times decided by chairs 
<elfy> but yea
<knome> i think it's a great incentive for the chairs to decide the meetings
<ochosi> anyway, meeting-time set
<ochosi> Unit193: care to update the google-cal?
<Unit193> Just to make sure, can you tell me exactly when?
<knome> i can update.
<ochosi> may 26, 20utc
<ochosi> (just sent the email to the ML)
<knome> done
<Unit193> Ah, hasn't hit me yet.  I could just fine but looks ^
<Unit193> knome: Thanks.
<knome> i have the calendar set in a really accessible fashion right now
<knome> so if you need somebody to add anything, it's just a few clikcs
<ochosi> you do?
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i'd like to have that too
<knome> i have it on lightbird on thunderbird
<ochosi> i just have a very very slow tab in firefox
 * ochosi would really love to see a calendar app in xubuntu that works with google-calendar
<knome> well, thunderbird ;)
<ochosi> meh
<knome> hah.
<knome> yeah, works for me, probably not something for default setup
<ochosi> thunderbird reminds me too much of those very very slow tabs in firefox
<knome> :D
<knome> oh btw,
<Unit193> I have junk/gcalset if I want to set an Xubuntu meeting.
<knome> what's the limit on the meeting scheduling?
<Unit193> ochosi: gcalcli+conky?
<knome> does slickymaster basically need to schedule for week 23?
<ochosi> Unit193: have a conkyrc for that handy?
<Unit193> Not so pretty, but yep.
<knome> or does it slide
<ochosi> knome: i'd like to discuss the rhythm at the next meeting
<knome> goodie.
<ochosi> i'm actually rather relaxed about that in general
<knome> just popped up in my mind..
<ochosi> when we need it, we'll have weekly meetings
<knome> yeah, i guess it's better that way
<knome> though, there should be technically some limitation
<ochosi> as long as we don't, we can have one every two weeks
<knome> "at most 2 weeks from the last meeting"
<knome> so the schedule is kind of organic
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> but still keeps us with meetings
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should write this down somewhere
<knome> probably when it's decided
<knome> can go on the Processes page
<ochosi> just sending it to the ML sometimes feels like... echo "blah" > /dev/null
<elfy> put it on a m/l with [TEAM]
<knome> if you think "for the next meeting", i can just repeat myself
<elfy> ochosi: oh - so it's not just me then :p
<knome> elfy, definitely not just you...
<Unit193> ~/.gcalclirc: [gcalcli]\nuser: ochosi\npw: mylittlepasswordismagic  then pop something like  ${execpi 300 gcalcli --conky --cals=all  agenda `date +%m/%d/%Y` `date +%m/%d/%Y -d "2 days"`}  in .conky
<elfy> another bug reported on the tracker that looks like it should be against a testcase and not xfce4-settings
<ochosi> part of the problem is that there is no big tradition in this team to use the mailinglist
<ochosi> for internal communication
<ochosi> most people are on IRC anyways
<ochosi> and most members of -team have a remote login
<knome> ...and we've kind of wanted to support that
<elfy> well 2 at least only have that because someone else in -team offered it
<elfy> and having IRC as the way to communicate - doesn't mean that it happens
<elfy> not all of us are in other channels
<ochosi> yeah, easy enough to join though
<ochosi> i'd expect everyone to be in the channels relevant to him/her anyway
<elfy> that's not the point ;)
<knome> maybe they should ;)
<elfy> [19:03] <elfy> I suspect there were bits in xfce channels, bits in shimmer - there were certainly bits in here 
<elfy> [19:07] <bluesabre> indeed
<elfy> [19:07] <bluesabre> lots of bits in shimmer
<elfy> [19:07] <bluesabre> tbh
<knome> well, that's not what i meant either :)
<elfy> here being -offtopic
<knome> i acknowledge the problem with #shimmer specifically
<knome> what i mean is other ubuntu channels, like #ubuntu-release or #ubuntu-quality
<bluesabre> d'oh, logged by elfy
<Unit193> >_>
<ochosi> bluesabre: this should be pretty much the appdata stuff for parole: http://dpaste.com/2ANB2A7/
<knome> i'm off
<ochosi> night knome 
<knome> hf everybody, and see you later
<knome> nighty night
<elfy> me too - night all 
<bluesabre> seeya knome and elfy
<ochosi> night elfy 
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, that seems simple enough
<ochosi> yup, sucks a bit that we have to keep that release-list up to date
<ochosi> that's the most annoying overhead part i can see for now
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> we can probably script that
<bluesabre> and put it into configure.ac.in
<ochosi> anyway, i'll ping hughsie and ask him to review it
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> yeah, but incl the release-mail?
<bluesabre> that might be tricky
<ochosi> i mean that link doesn't seem very scriptable..
<ochosi> anyhow, i'll let you know once i got this figured out
<bluesabre> does it need to be the release mail, we could alternatively link to release announcements I throw onto my site
<ochosi> or the git commit id
<bluesabre> that works
<ochosi> Unit193: i presume the compton stuff can be put in /xdg ?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, sure, but release-mails are nicer (changelog etc)
<bluesabre> true
<saxx_> Hey
<bluesabre> but
<bluesabre> it will be impossible to include the current version's release mail
<bluesabre> because of that link
<bluesabre> hey saxx_, what's up?
<ochosi> unless you update the appdata file only *after* the release
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> so... release, modify released tarball?
<ochosi> good point though, this is something to ask hughsie
<saxx_> Hey Blue, just messing around customizing stuff, just done a fresh install
<Unit193> ochosi: https://github.com/chjj/compton/blob/master/src/compton.c#L5145
<ochosi> Unit193: a simple "yes" would've sufficed though :)
<Unit193> Oh, right.  Words. :(
<ochosi> as you seem interested in the compton file, would that be a workitem you'd take for 14.10?
<Unit193> I've used compton, but I purged it a while ago.
<ochosi> is that a yes or a no..? :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-21
<bluesabre> Oh, right. Words. :(
<bluesabre> saxx_: cool, how do you like it?
<saxx_> I've always loved it, but finally made the move and started using is as main OS
<Unit193> ochosi: I don't use it, so I'd not be the best example.
<Unit193> ochosi: I think we could likely spruce up bluesabre's file a tad?
<ochosi> sounds good
<bluesabre> saxx_: awesome, welcome to full-time xubuntu usage :)
<ochosi> we just need an assignee to be able to track it
<saxx_> Thanks blue :) I'll be on here a lot for sure :)
<brainwash> we switch to compton in 14.10?!
<ochosi> cool, welcome saxx_ :)
<saxx_> Thanks ochosi :)
<ochosi> brainwash: no, but considering to provide a default config for ppl who wanna use it
<ochosi> brainwash: weren't you one of the compton advocates? :)
<brainwash> well, yes and no
<ochosi> people don't seem to wanna decide today
<brainwash> what kind of default config? hardware differs and demands special configuration options
<Unit193> brainwash: So easier usage, but not shipped.
<brainwash> or you mean shadow settings and so on?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> exceptions for xfce4-notifyd and tabwin
<ochosi> whatever can be generically pre-configured
<ochosi> that's why we need a person in charge of that
<ochosi> i'm happy with anyone stepping up to do that tbh :)
<brainwash> I don't like the fancy stuff
<brainwash> so I don't feel like messing around with it
<ochosi> bluesabre: fwiw, the stuff i pushed to your phone wrt the lid-lock bug was relevant :)
<ochosi> i can repeat it here though, if you wnat
<ochosi> want/need
<bluesabre> ochosi: I got it
<ochosi> ok cool
<bluesabre> I'll try to hack on that a bit tonight
<ochosi> btw, caveat: could be that the xfconf variable isn't working so great even in the current patch
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> need to sit down and really hack on this
<bluesabre> I wish the issue affected me so I could verify :D
<ochosi> hah, you wish?! :D
<ochosi> just get your old computer from the drawer
<ochosi> anyway, i gotta hit the sack now
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> night bluesabre 
<ochosi> oh btw, there's still a parole branch (goto-feature) waiting for your review in case you're bored or something ;)
<bluesabre> or yeah
<bluesabre> I need to stop slacking!
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> heh, first one to complain about desktop wallpapers on login screen ;)
<ochosi> nah, there is even a bugreport about that
<knome> aha, haven't seen that
<knome> what'cha gonna do?
<ochosi> and we have a branch with a fix, i.e. an option to disable it
<knome> :)
<knome> oki
<knome> sounds good
<ochosi> so in 14.10 ppl will be able to switch it off
<knome> i now have way less hair
<ochosi> we should probably get the greeter-settings UI installed by default
<knome> just FYI
<ochosi> you mean then before you became XPL?
<knome> mhm, sounds sane
<knome> hah!
<knome> nah, since yesterday ;)
<knome> it's literally so *cool*
<ochosi> :}
<knome> what's up with the black screen fix?
<ochosi> well bluesabre returned a bit late last night, so we couldn't work on it together
<knome> right
<knome> wasn't there one ready already?
<knome> or didn't that fix it?
<ochosi> yeah, but one with drawbacks that was mostly a proof-of-concept
<knome> hmmh
<ochosi> it should test whether not inhibiting logind solves the problem
<ochosi> (and it does)
<knome> right
<ochosi> doing a proper fix is (as always) more work
<knome> of course
<ochosi> the main issue being not breaking xscreensaver
<knome> is it completely triaged now though?
<ochosi> i dunno, i'm less worried about the bug status then about fixing it
<ochosi> also the comments are still flowing in for it (which is annoying and a bit useless), so i stopped checking the bugreport
<knome> heh, well, it's not really about the bug status
<knome> i'm worried about fixing it too, and being completely triaged is a good thing for that
<ochosi> omg, i wonder how ppl can think this is a good thing... http://worldofgnome.org/running-gtk-applications-different-themes-per-app/
<elfy> ochosi: no chance of that in xfce then :p
<ochosi> well you can do that already anyway
<ochosi> it's just a very silly thing imo
<ochosi> (even in gtk2)
<elfy> well I'm glad I've never seen it ;)
<GridCube> ochosi, why would it be silly? don't the themes reside already in the system? is loading the themes for each applications counter productive?
<knome> why would you implicitly want to make your system not look consistent/integrated?
<GridCube> because not everyone like things to look the same all the time?
<GridCube> because some people might want to visually differentiate some applications from others visually?
<GridCube> i don't know
<GridCube> i used visually twice
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> well anyway, ppl could and did always do this, i still think it's the worst
<elfy> lost the sound indicator :(
<GridCube> :(
<ochosi> elfy: how did you lose it?
<elfy> no idea ochosi 
<elfy> the others are there
<elfy> not got around to checking updates
<elfy> nothing apparent
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> checked any logs yet?
<elfy> just checked apt history log for today
<ochosi> so it just happened today?
<elfy> yea - was there last night
<ochosi> humm
<elfy> I know that - had recoccurence of the last 20% vol change making no difference
<elfy> I'll check I didn't cause it
<elfy> ochosi: I guess that it did cause it :p
<ochosi> so it's back nowÃÂ
<elfy> current choice is vol control that works from 20% -100% or no indicator
<ochosi> err, what?
<elfy> I've got this again bug 1321485
<ubottu> bug 1321485 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "No change to volume in lowest 20% of control" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321485
<ochosi> oh :/
<ochosi> i wasn't aware of such a bug
<ochosi> hw related?
<elfy> I had it some time ago - for time read couple of years - came back
<elfy> ochosi: same hardware I have had since I started using ubuntu in 2007 :p
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> and the ignore_dB does what exactly?
<elfy> I have no idea what it does exactly software wise but it allows the vol keys to work properly down to mute
<elfy> possibly something not matching in alsa and pulse
<elfy> *shrug*
<ochosi> hmyeah, shrugging would also be my reaction :)
<elfy> heh
<elfy> I ought to really check in 14.04 
<elfy> low volumes via keyboards isn't something I often do 
<knome> pleia2, cool, xubuntu talks
<knome> well. almost
<elfy> shall I remove (TODO: Link to docs for it). from the lightlocker article :p
<knome> yeah...
<knome> :P
<knome> good job reviewers!
 * knome looks in the mirror
<pleia2> knome: haha, just a little xubuntu
<knome> ;)
<knome> screenshots and all!
<ochosi> hehe, indeed
<elfy> done that then
<elfy> lol
<knome> ta elfy 
<ochosi> fwiw, is there a docs-link now?
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/guide-keeping-safe.html#lock-your-screen ?
<ochosi> mm, sounds okay to me
 * knome tries to squeeze any sound of the URL but in vain
<Unit193> Clearly not using espeak.
<knome> mm
<ochosi> on a more serious note, is anyone here (apart from me) interested in setting up some sort of bug-bounty programme for xubuntu?
<knome> it's not a bad idea, but the bounty and target will be clearly defined and generally accepted by the team
<knome> what would the bounty be? some of the mag money?
<elfy> I've just got some vague unease that's very hard to put into words
<elfy> apart from a vague sense of unease ;)
<brainwash> way too much work to set it up and maintain such a system
<knome> does it need a high-leve bureaucratic system?
<brainwash> it should be fair and transparent
<knome> in what sense fair?
<knome> if the target is to fix a bug, it isn't fair for people who only have artistic talent
<brainwash> people should not abuse the system
<knome> which is why i said the bounty and target should be clearly specified
<ochosi> i think that elementary are using a third party site
<knome> i don't understand what kind of "system" we need here
<knome> just list things we want to be fixed, set bounties, and go
<ochosi> so i think there it is up to  the users that can pledge bounties
<knome> right...
<elfy> ochosi: like a "I want this fixed - here's x Â£'s" ?
<knome> social bounty then?
<ochosi> elfy: pretty much
<ochosi> knome: nope, $$$
<knome> i mean,
<elfy> mmm 
<knome> social in the way that the xubuntu team isn't participating in paying the bounty
<ochosi> yea
<knome> i'd imagine there to be sites that allow doing that
<ochosi> yeah, i can find the elementary site...
<knome> just pick one that seems to work well, create a xubuntu tag or sth and announce it being "official", as far as there is anything official...
<ochosi> yeah, that could already be sufficient
<ochosi> and we can still advertise it as a team
<knome> that would be much better than getting involved with the system itself really
<ochosi> i mean "advertise"...
<ochosi> exactly
<knome> yeah, as much as we advertise other social media outlets etc
<elfy> one downside being - with a finite amount of people looking at bugs - the emphasis could shift from xfpm to some random thing 
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> it's very democratic
<knome> if people want silly things.. who cares?
<knome> as long as it doesn't involve "by default in xubuntu"
<ochosi> but generally speaking it could also be that we lose interest in the fix and just give up on it :)
<knome> which i guess is something we should make a statement about
<elfy> hang on
<elfy> that's a bit premature 
<knome> what is?
<elfy> knome> which i guess is something we should make a statement about
<knome> well, i obviously meant if we set something up
<elfy> that just assumes that ochosi> on a more serious note, is anyone here (apart from me) interested in setting up some sort of bug-bounty programme for xubuntu? is going to happen
<ochosi> https://www.bountysource.com/issues/357765-load-foreground-tab-from-cache-when-restoring-session
<knome> to state that there is no guarantee that pledges like "please install libreoffice by default in xubuntu" are not really valid...
<ochosi> this is an example ^
<brainwash> so we stop fixing bugs until this bug bounty program goes live :)
<knome> one option is a system where the team can approve/decline any possible pledge
<elfy> I think we should install libreoffice-calc and -writer by default
<ochosi> and this is how they do it in launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+bugs?field.tag=bounty
<ochosi> brainwash: hehe, or we pledge team funds instead of fixing annoying bugs ourselves ;)
<ochosi> i guess we need to vote on me registering the xubuntu project on that page
<brainwash> however, most/many bugs are Xfce upstream ones
<ochosi> oh, we can actually use "our" facebook account (in case we have one) for logging in
<knome> i think we should have a broader discussion before that :)
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, sure, but we can always push them upstream
<brainwash> maybe get the Xfce devs and maintainers involved too?
<ochosi> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/midori/issues
<ochosi> as another example
<ochosi> brainwash: which xfce devs? :D
<knome> ochosi, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/community-announce
<knome> ochosi, ^ subscribe PLZ, it's a *very* low-traffic list
<knome> ochosi, last email in february
<brainwash> all of them.. show them some $$$ and they will start working again :P
<ochosi> knome: what for then?
<knome> ochosi, before that, november
<knome> ochosi, uds announcements and such
<ochosi> brainwash: unfortunately i doubt that...
<brainwash> but these people are usually the ones who can "easily" fix bugs in their software
<brainwash> we'll see, maybe they'll notice the bug bounty program and start fixing some bugs
<ali1234> the thing about bugs is that bugs are easy to fix
<ali1234> figuring out how to reproduce them is hard
<ali1234> and getting upstream to commit a patch is hard
<ali1234> so i think that a bug bounty site should roll over at each of these steps
<ochosi> ali1234: well the most effective way is becoming an upstream contributor
<brainwash> or fork
<ochosi> or talking to upstream devs directly somehow
<ochosi> meh, forking is meh
<brainwash> but it works.. sometimes
<ali1234> so for a new bug, the bounty would go up as people donate. once it can be 100% reproduced, whoever figured that step out gets the current bounty
<ali1234> then the counter starts again at zero until someone submits a patch
<ali1234> then it starts again at zero, whoever commits the patch upstream gets that bounty
<ochosi> right, i'm not sure users get that...
<brainwash> mmh
<ochosi> most ppl have no idea how these processes work
<brainwash> keep it simple
<ali1234> well you know what they say about fools and money
<ochosi> and they'd be frustrated to see their money go away without a fix
<ochosi> ali1234: there's a lot of both? :p
 * ochosi actually doesn't know what they say about them...
<ali1234> they are soon parted
<ali1234> anyway the point is that this system rewards the actually hard part
<ali1234> if a bug is hard to reproduce and easy to fix, then whoever reproduced it gets the most reward
<ali1234> if it's easy to reproduce and hard to fix, the counter will go higher during the fixing stage
<ali1234> it's also intended that this is a system where anyone can donate to any bug at any time
<ochosi> yeah, but why wouldnt the person doing the hard part also do the simple part of fixing the bug?
<ochosi> that's a sort of logic that is over my head...
<knome> unable to?
<ali1234> maybe, but in that case they won't get any donations for the fix
<ali1234> only for reproducing it
<knome> ali1234, wouldn't *that* open room for playing the system?
<ali1234> if they try to game it by posting the reproduction steps and not the fix, then someone else can snipe them
<knome> "i reproduced it, now i'll wait until more pledges land until i fix it"
<knome> ali1234, except that the fixer "wouldn't get any donations for the fix"
<knome> as you said
<knome> so why would somebody *else* fix it? immediately?
<knome> -?
<knome> this sounds like things are going to slow down
<ochosi> ali1234: i dunno what bugs you have in mind specifically, but those you were working on lately are *technically* so hard to reproduce that i agree, that was the hardest part...
<ali1234> that will always be a problem with bounties
<knome> while it's not always fair, there should be just one bounty, for landing the final fix
<ali1234> that will result in many bounties never being paid
<knome> people who are experiencing the issue are most probably also willing to help debug/reproduce
<knome> well, too bad...
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that's okayish
<knome> it's not like people *want* to part with their money
<ochosi> anyway, i think that in the bountysource.com programme you can't set such finegrain control
<ochosi> but i can ask kalikiana, he has obviously used it
<ali1234> the problem with requiring landing the fix is what happens when someone posts a bounty that the upstream project will never accept?
<ochosi> well that's where xubuntu comes in imo
<ali1234> those bounties will just clog up the system
<knome> that's why i said something about the team accepting/rejecting new pledges
<ochosi> if it's a distro patch that gets applied in xubuntu and the money was pledged in the xubuntu project...
<ali1234> and if landing the fix gets the bounty, then project owners can game the system, by rejecting patches from others and fixing it themselves
<ochosi> i'd suggest we ask ppl who have used this system
<ochosi> or: one of these systems
<ochosi> also, note that the bounties mostly have symbolic value
<ochosi> xubuntu will never draw so much attention that we get substantial bounties (i guess)
<ochosi> getting 50$ for a fix is not a great incentive to "play the system"
<ochosi> also, you'll know as a maintainer that you'll probably never get a patch again from that person if you trick them out of their bounty
<ochosi> (it's like falsely attributing a patch to yourself in vcs)
<Unit193> What about bugs with no bounty?  Won't those get ignored?
<knome> ali1234, err, are you suggesting we will create a system to be able to play it?
<knome> if anybody in the team did that, they should kicked hard in the lower back
<ali1234> money does weird things to people :(
<knome> like we are all here to make money :P
<brainwash> soon
<ali1234> just look at bitcoin
<knome> yes... but that hardly changed people who were working on things *already*
<knome> i don't really understand the argument
<knome> if xubuntu developers just wanted to make money out of xubuntu, they would have found a way already
<knome> or got lost
<Unit193> Some of us are very lost...
<ochosi> Unit193: they won't get ignored more than they do now i think
<ochosi> bluesabre: so let me summarize again...
<ochosi> what happens is this (as far as we know)
<ochosi> 1) user closes the lid
<ochosi> 2) xfpm notices the event and handles it
<ochosi> 3) it fires off xflock4, which calls light-locker
<ochosi> 4) light-locker initiates a VT switch by locking
<ochosi> 4) system goes to suspend
<ochosi> so as you can see, there are two 4)s
<ochosi> that is not accidental, but actually the problem
<knome> lol
<ochosi> these two things aren't handled well by a "stupid" bash script as xflock is one
<ochosi> logind always seems to handle the VT switch + suspending correclt
<ochosi> y
<bluesabre> ok, so that's part of the story, now for the patch
<bluesabre> it introduces a new xfconf-setting inhibit-logind
<bluesabre> which does what, exactly?
<ochosi> so, we can mitigate this problem by *not* inhibiting logind in terms of handling the lid-close event (but only if 1) lid-close > lock settings is true in xfpm and 2) light-locker is in use)
<ochosi> the patch introduces a BIG logind-inhibit killswitch. so you can only decide whether logind handles all or none of these events: power-button, suspend-button, hibernate-button, lid-event
<ochosi> so we only want to make it take effect on the lid-event
<ochosi> the rest should be controlled by xfpm, because there's at least a settings UI for it (which there isn't for logind)
<ochosi> and last but not least, xscreensaver...
<ochosi> xscreensaver *needs* the xflock4 call from xfpm before suspending on lid-close, it doesn't listen to logind's lock signal (which light-locker does, if it's started with --lock-on-suspend)
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> all "clear"? :)
<ochosi> it's really quite the kerfuffle...
<bluesabre> which is why I feel like light-locker should in fact be a bit smarter and toggle the setting itself
<ochosi> i only hope that we don't create a new problem with this
<ochosi> because:
<ochosi> 1) light-locker is set to lock the session on suspend
<Unit193> And for all purposes, gnome-screensaver == xscreensaver?
<ochosi> 2) xfpm is set to lock the session on suspend/lid-close
<ochosi> so if the lid-close event is inhibited i guess xfpm should also *not* actively lock the session
<ochosi> Unit193: no, i think gnome-screensaver actually *does* listen to the logind lock signal
<ochosi> (btw, don't hit me with the rod if it's not logind sending the dbus lock signal but something else)
<Unit193> Ah.  I take it newer xscreensaver still doesn't?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> xscreensaver only does something if you call it specifically (or the timeout runs out)
<bluesabre> I'd be in favor of the string option
<bluesabre> or multiple bools
<ochosi> yeah, i think the string option is the sanest
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager/logind/
<ochosi> multiple bools have the advantage of not having to evaluate the string...
<bluesabre> and then each of the possible settings there
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> this seems more painful than ripping mate's display dialog out of mate
<ochosi> yeah, mostly because there are so many actors that need to react to one another
<ochosi> if only light-locker wouldn't have to switch VT
<ochosi> i wonder though
<knome> actors like hugh grant?
<bluesabre> is eric around?
<ochosi> would it all be solved by using late-locking?
 * knome hides and laughs
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> late-locking still locks on lid-close I believe
<ochosi> yeah, true, it doesn't apply in this case
<ochosi> silly ochosi
<ochosi> eric is only around at very specific times of day, much like yourself ;)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> around 3-5PM UTC
<bluesabre> so, how would you like to proceed, or knome/Unit193, thoughts?
<knome> well, fix it..? :)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> super-constructive as always :)
<knome> well, what do you expect from a non-technical guy at almost 3am? 
<knome> bools sound sane to me
<knome> but i'm unable judge if there are drawbacks or not
<Unit193> kI think he's tired, he asked me too.
<knome> and whether they are bad enough to make the option not viable
<ochosi> bluesabre: the bools are easier to handle in settings-editor
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> for those that need to re-enable logind-inhibition for xscreensaver
<ochosi> or actually
<knome> and easier to understand on the code level as well.
<knome> and no wondering what the possible options are
<ochosi> logind can still be switched to ON in xfpm with xscreensaver
<knome> or syntax, in some cases
<ochosi> it just needs to call xflock in this case
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> i got it
<bluesabre> finally
<ochosi> ok, listen up
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> yes sir!
 * ochosi hopes he'll make sense now...
 * ochosi feels his hands are getting sweaty
<knome> probably not sir
<ochosi> ok, so the problem is not logind in a way
<ochosi> it's the lock signal
<ochosi> light-locker -> logind
<ochosi> xscreen-saver -> xflock4
<ochosi> but, for xscreensaver it doesn#t matter whether logind sends the lock signal
<ochosi> it doesnt listen
 * knome faints with "xscreen-saver"
<ochosi> so we can *always* uninhibit logind if the lid-close event is set to suspend and lock on suspend is on
<ochosi> in xubuntu, that is
<ochosi> upstream it'll be a different story
<ochosi> but i'll think about that tomorrow after multiple hours of sleep
<bluesabre> sounds promising
<ochosi> well it should make things less compley
<ochosi> complex
<bluesabre> less compley would be good
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> bluesabre: so, we need xfpm patched that if (lid-close-event=suspend && lock-on-suspend=TRUE) { !inhibit_logind }
<ochosi> and we need to re-enable --lock-on-suspend in light-locker(-settings)
<bluesabre> fun
<ochosi> well the latter you've already done, no?
<bluesabre> I think yes
<bluesabre> this whole thing has been very confusing for me
<ochosi> i know, i'm sorry. it *is* confusing.
<ochosi> for me too
<ochosi> i guess you'd want me to point you to the portions of code that are relevant?
<bluesabre> that would be helpful
<ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/src/xfpm-manager.c#n318
<ochosi> that is the part that handles the lid
<ochosi> i'd add a check there for those two variables i mentioned above
<ochosi> s/variables/settings/
<ochosi> (gah, i'm really a bit tired ...)
<ochosi> this is the code for inhibiting systemd: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/src/xfpm-main.c#n198
<ochosi> it'd be best to replace the const "handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key:handle-lid-switch" with just "handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key" i guess
<bluesabre> ok, I'll try to get started with that tonight
<ochosi> this is eric's concept patch: https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfce4-power-manager/commit/21b8e5abf4e5f93c28cb964b4618b9b509780951
<ochosi> this fixes things with light-locker ^
<ochosi> but breaks it with xscreensaver obviously, cause it relies on logind sending the lock signal
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> well, "breaks"... it just doesnt lock the session on suspend
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-22
<ochosi> so this line needs to be conditional actually: https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfce4-power-manager/blob/21b8e5abf4e5f93c28cb964b4618b9b509780951/src/xfpm-manager.c#L350
<ochosi> or if you prefer upstream: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/src/xfpm-manager.c#n347
<ochosi> if light-locker is in use, this cannot be called, if xscreensaver is in use, it has to be called
<bluesabre> xfpm in xubuntu is neither though, right?
<ochosi> logind is completely independent of it, it'll just fire a lock-signal that only light-locker will catch
<ochosi> xfpm in xubuntu has a few patches, but this part (logind inhibition) should be the same
<ochosi> the same patch has been applied upstream as is carried in xubuntu
<ochosi> it just hasn't been released yet
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> and yeah, you're right, it'd be nice if light-locker could check for xfpm's settings and flip that config option itself
<ochosi> but it depends on many variables, so it's not a lot of fun to add that code...
<ochosi> 1) is systemd even there
<ochosi> 2) is xfpm there
<ochosi> 3) (lid-close-event=suspend && lock-on-suspend=TRUE) ?
<ochosi> 4) is another locking programme installed
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i'll have to hit the hay now...
<bluesabre> ok, I'll hack on this for a few hours
<bluesabre> try to have something ready by morning
<ochosi> you don't happen to have another laptop you can reproduce this with?
<bluesabre> nope, gave my old laptop to my sister-in-law
<bluesabre> but I can verify if xfconf-settings are applied
<bluesabre> so thats something
<ochosi> you can also add some debug statement
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> to see whether logind is correctly inhibited when the lock/suspend settings are set
<bluesabre> YEAH
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll figure it out :D
<ochosi> wow, you*re excited, eh? ;)
<bluesabre> YAY CAPS
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> huhu
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, as it is so befitting now: good night and good luck!
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> night everyone (else)
<knome> night
<knome> i guess i should go as well
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> its not an easy task to even build xfpm
<bluesabre> cool, so that works
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: part 1 http://paste.ubuntu.com/7499838/
<bluesabre> I've tested and it does inhibit logind based on the setting
<bluesabre> so that's likely a good thing
<bluesabre> the limitation right now is that xfpm needs to be restarted for changes to take effect
<bluesabre> I'll fix that next, but I'm starting to get a bit tired now
<Unit193> bluesabre: Just in case you didn't see it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1320830
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320830 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> it=the reply.
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds like a good start
<ochosi> morning everyone
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> ahoj slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I saw it, will try to fix that today (not entirely sure how that happened)
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<ochosi> i think we might be able to also use what you have now for trusty
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> I'll fix it up today and then we should be in good shape
<ochosi> for the end-user, it boils down to enabling/disabling a switch in xfconf
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> doesn't matter whether it's logind that is inhibited or xflock
<ochosi> in the long run though, we need a better solution in xfpm/light-locker
<bluesabre> the default is true (maintain the current status), so they won't see the setting unless it gets turned off for light-locker
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> I'd also like to integrate all of light-locker's settings somehow in xpfm and get rid of lls
<ochosi> more dialogs just leads to more complication
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> when are you and eric planning on a new xfpm release?
<ochosi> he said he's planning to finish the suspend without systemd feature this weekend
<ochosi> then there's only a rather small issue left on the agenda
<ochosi> so i hope next week there'll be a new release
<ochosi> (that'd be a dev release though)
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> i'm not sure atm how/where to integrate some of the light-locker settings...
<ochosi> it's mostly about late-locking, because that's a very ll specific option
<bluesabre> I'd vote for adding a compile-time option for light-locker support
<bluesabre> which just adds another section to xfpm
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> here's an idea
<ochosi> yeah, we could do that
<bluesabre> have a dropdown
<bluesabre> "preffered lock screen"
<ochosi> yeah, i also thought about that...
<bluesabre> detects xscreensaver, gnome-screensaver, light-locker
<ochosi> that'd rid us of xflock
<bluesabre> and disables the one thats not chosen when the xfpm daemon is running
<ochosi> i just don't think it's cool to "burden the user" with stuff like that..
<bluesabre> its already a burden
<bluesabre> the user just has to install any gnome package that pulls gnome-desktop
<ochosi> ouch. true that...
<bluesabre> and then they have two running screensavers
<ochosi> ok, i'll put it on the roadmap
<ochosi> at least the selection of locker makes sense
<ochosi> xfce4-session is still relying on xflock4 though
<bluesabre> and light-locker settings can be controlled if light-locker is selected, a button for xscreensaver config if its selected, etc
<ochosi> well frankly i don't know of many more lockers
<ochosi> xlock, sure, but it doesn't have a dialog iirc
<ochosi> same for gnome-screensaver
<bluesabre> right
 * ochosi regrets a bit that we decided to drop out the lock window of light-locker...
<ochosi> but i guess at that point it wasn't foreseeable that VT switching would cause that much trouble
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> ochosi: did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1321244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1321244 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Light-locker easy to circumvent when using two separate Desktops" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ochosi> i did
<ochosi> it's a very very specific case though
<brainwash> and what about the idea to always late-lock?
<ochosi> it isn't the ideal behavior for everyone
<ochosi> and it still pauses the "music" (or whatever is running) when you touch the mouse once
<brainwash> what trouble does it cause?
<brainwash> that is not a problem
<ochosi> so after touching the mouse/kb once, it's just like regular locking
<ochosi> we can consider making it default in 14.10, but for 14.04 that ship has sailed anyways
<brainwash> but it should solve the lid-close problem or?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> it has no effect on that
<brainwash> so the vt switch is not the culprit?
<brainwash> late-locking would delay it until resume
<ochosi> are you sure about that?
<brainwash> isn't this how late-locking works?
<ochosi> late-locking only is related to the timeout
<ochosi> the suspending sends a lock-signal and that should immediately lock the session
<brainwash> and I suggest that light-locker always does late-locking
<brainwash> by default
<ochosi> on suspend it's less safe, so that'd be a -1 from me
<bluesabre> that has it's downsides
<ochosi> furthermore it works flawlessly with logid
<ochosi> logind
<bluesabre> the vt switch takes a surprising amount of time to perform
<ochosi> only the asynchronously running "stupid" xflock script causes that issue
<brainwash> it does?
<bluesabre> at least with nvidia drivers
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> lots of flickering and lots of time passing...
<ochosi> (very annoying in fact)
<bluesabre> also, a couple of ideas...
<bluesabre> xflock4 stays, new command tried first "xfce4-power-manager --lock-screen" which will forward commands if it manages them, or returns 1 if not
<ochosi> i recently noticed that lightdm has a new feature to keep the greeter alive to reduce the switching time
<brainwash> but still, late-locking wouldn't act differently than logind triggered locking
<ochosi> bluesabre: that is a very good idea
<brainwash> both switch the vt on resume
<bluesabre> since xfce is modular and xfpm may not be used
<bluesabre> true
<bluesabre> but the scenario is not for lid-lock when late-locking
<bluesabre> but for mouse-wiggle
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but it's it least all handled by logind
<ochosi> suspend isn't handled by light-locker at all
<ochosi> so with logind, you have one process synchronously handling the suspending and the resuming and the locking
<ochosi> if it's asynchronous, you get the race condition we're currently dealing with
<ochosi> (as far as i understand this9
<brainwash> a switch to trigger late-locking would also help if the user manually locks the screen and still wants to hear the sound playing
<bluesabre> idea2 (unrelated): have a 30 second timer after receiving lock command where the greeter does not sleep the display.  if no movement, sleep the display early
<bluesabre> (to improve late-locking)
<brainwash> ltae-locking is the solution :D
<brainwash> late
<ochosi> solution to what?
<brainwash> light-locker related problems :)
<ochosi> nah, light-locker2.0 will be the answer to that
<bluesabre> I'm ready to be done with bug fixes and get on with developing new features... trusty.1 is not fun :)
<ochosi> not having to switch vt anymore
<ochosi> bluesabre: we still will want to fix xdg-screensaver though...
<ochosi> that's something we'll need for .1 and 14.10
<ochosi> sucks if parole can't inhibit the screensaver
<ochosi> and my workaround/patch is just an illustration of xdg-screensaver failing
<bluesabre> yeah, true
<ochosi> as that is also just a dumb script, let's hope the bug is easy to fix
<ochosi> but it's hard to narrow down why/what doesn't work exactly
<ochosi> brainwash: feel like debugging xdg-screensaver a bit?
<brainwash> general debugging?
<ochosi> well i'd like to know why it doesnÃ't work with light-locker
<ochosi> it actually has the fallback option of controlling X11's screensaver extension
<ochosi> which is what light-locker is using
<ochosi> so it should be handled correctly
<brainwash> but only if late-locking is enabled or?
<ochosi> no, that's totally unrelated
<ochosi> xdg-screensaver is a script that inhibits known screensavers
<ochosi> so it has special cases for gnome-screensaver and xscreensaver
<ochosi> and one for kde
<ochosi> and then a fallback
<ochosi> so mediaplayers like parole use it to inhibit the screensaver when playing a video fullscreen
<brainwash> on my main system it simply blanks and unblanks my screen, on top of that even changes screen brightness randomly :/
<ochosi> you're not supposed to call xdg-screensaver as a user
<brainwash> ah
<ochosi> it's a tool for mediaplayers
<brainwash> oh
<ochosi> or whatever wants to inhibit screensavers
<ochosi> it's a bash-script though, so it's readable in /usr/bin
<brainwash> not even bash
<brainwash> only sh
<brainwash> 1000 lines of code o.o
<ochosi> yeah, but you can skip most of it
<brainwash> so it has no special code for light-locker
<ochosi> no, and it doesn't have to have
<ochosi> because light-locker doesn't manage the screensaver, it only reacts to it
<ochosi> X11 handles it
<ochosi> (the setting you get/set with xset q/s)
<brainwash> ah, got it
<brainwash> light-locker adds so much confusion
<ochosi> in this case it doesn't, it's the same as not using xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver
<brainwash> screensaver_xserver()
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> it's present twice in the code
<ochosi> yuo
<ochosi> i dont know why though
<ochosi> could be part of the problem
<brainwash> but parole prevents the screen from blanking, right?
<brainwash> light-locker not running
<ochosi> it doesn't without xscreensaver
<ochosi> nope, it's unrelated to light-locker
<ochosi> light-locker does *not* blank the screen :) that's X11
<brainwash> yes, I know
<brainwash> so xdg-screensaver is somewhat broken
<ochosi> so it happens either way, because xdg-screensaver doesn't detect / have a special scenario for light-locker
<ochosi> p
<ochosi> yu
<brainwash> maybe a bug report already exists
<ochosi> that's my assessment at least
<ochosi> i searched but couldn't find anything relevant so far
<ochosi> seems practically nobody uses the X11 extension
<ochosi> or cares about mediaplayers
<brainwash> but many people use simple screen lockers
<brainwash> mmh
<ochosi> but those maybe just disable the screensaver.. who knows why it hasn't been widely reported
<ochosi> anyway, i gotta run
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ok cya
<SaXx_> Hey
<elfy> hi SaXx_ 
<SaXx_> Hey Elfy :)
<ochosi> brainwash: did you look into xdg-screensaver any further?
<brainwash> ochosi: no =S
<brainwash> maybe we should report that this patch can be dropped
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xdg-utils/trusty/view/head:/debian/patches/xserver-blanking.diff
<brainwash> does the media player blanking problem affect you?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> it does affect everyone that doesn't use xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver afaik
<brainwash> you could add set -x to the script and redirect the output
<ochosi> i wonder whether dropping the patch would fix it
<brainwash> but even with the duplicated entries it should work fine I think
<brainwash> it's only a shell script, so it can be easily debugged
<ochosi> yeah, i know, i just don't have the time for it right now...
<elfy> evening both
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<ochosi> brainwash: that's why i asked you in the first place
<brainwash> got no access to my test system right now
<brainwash> and it's strange that ubuntu ships this patch
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> i've never really bothered with xdg-utils
<ochosi> until i debugged this screensaver thingy and found xdg-screensaver
<brainwash> low priority issue, we will get it fixed in .1
<ochosi> yeah, i hope
<brainwash> and maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lp-1024482 too
<brainwash> ochosi: interesting report here bug 1322305
<ubottu> bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfc4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322305
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-23
<ochosi> bluesabre: so how does the fix work now? inhibit xflock or systemd?
<bluesabre> inhibit systemd
<ochosi> ok, that should work i guess
<ochosi> well, at the same time we have to re-activate the --lock-on-suspend option in light-locker
<ochosi> but iirc you already did that in the package in xubuntu-dev?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> but we will have to extend that further
<ochosi> or was there some confusion last time we talked about that
<bluesabre> to enable/disable the xfpm setting
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> talked to eric today about integrating locking in xfpm
<ochosi> and then i made the mistake to say that there aren't that many different lockers... :p
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> http://bug-attachment.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=5359
<bluesabre> is that the new xflock4?
<ochosi> well, that is one of the few patches floating in bugzilla for it
<ochosi> obviously there was nobody who was willing to apply any of them
<ochosi> which is maybe yet another good reason to let xfpm handle it
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> or take up ownership of xflock4
<bluesabre> or both
<ochosi> oh no, not another project :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> although i still have some hope inside that xfpm is a passing thing
<ochosi> 1) merge patches
<ochosi> 2) improve a few things
<ochosi> 3) do a release
<ochosi> 4) flee the scene
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> this is actually my preferred schedule
<bluesabre> 4) clean up the code a bunch
<bluesabre> notice that there are two 4)s
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> oh lordy, that'd be a fun job with xfpm
<ochosi> but yeah, it would certainly be good
<ochosi> i might do a settings cleanup
<ochosi> currently there is a callback for each button in the code just to modify the xfconf setting
<bluesabre> I'll have work for you with the display dialog soon
<bluesabre> once I pull in the graphical editor
<ochosi> oh right, that one
<ochosi> let me quickly look whether i still have any of my older mockups..
<ochosi> hm, i do. but it needs adjustments...
<ochosi> http://imgur.com/oM4xBIe
<ochosi> that one is more than 2 years old :p
<ochosi> i think i made that when we started adding the extended desktop mode
<bluesabre> works for me
<bluesabre> I'll shoot for that style with the initial import
<bluesabre> and we can tweak from there
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<ochosi> well the main question is whether the graphical DND part should be on a side or on top
<ochosi> or: on the left or on top
<ochosi> i think i thought left last time because ppl tend to have wider screens nowadays
<bluesabre> side actually makes more sense
<bluesabre> otherwise theres too much verical
<bluesabre> xfce header
<bluesabre> graphical editor
<bluesabre> settings
<ochosi> btw, the distance between the two displays in the mockup probably isn't desirable
<ochosi> they should touch
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> and the size/ratio should be accurate
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> this is our starting point from ate
<bluesabre> mate
<ochosi> i'll do the fancy cairo drawing for the displays ;)
<ochosi> i guess they didn't change anything in mate and it's still the same 1000 lines from gnome2
<ochosi> (i remember we even looked at gnome2 last time we worked on the display dialog)
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/1Hrwod4
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> theoretically the mate code should be cleaner
<bluesabre> it wasn't so bad removing everything else
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> tooltip was chilling there
<bluesabre> anyway, monitor label inside monitor
<ochosi> hm, i wonder *seriously*... why do the colors of the displays in this dialog have to be randomized and so different/fugly
<ochosi> right, wfm
<bluesabre> yeah, that's something we'll improve upon :D
<ochosi> definitely :)
<ochosi> and i think the left/right separation makes more sense than this mix
<ochosi> the left-top thing isn't very space-saving and clear
<bluesabre> agreed
<ochosi> some options on the left, some on the right...
<ochosi> so this is already the stripped down code?
<bluesabre> mate-control-center with only the display-dialog
<bluesabre> so now we just swap out mate/dbus stuff with xfce stuff
<bluesabre> and drop it in
<ochosi> wow, that sounds almost too simple
<bluesabre> it probably is
<ochosi> but the main difference is that we don't have an apply button anymore
<bluesabre> we'll see what happens when I get around to that
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> so things get executed live
<ochosi> we'll have to change that back i guess
<bluesabre> that might not be desirable
<bluesabre> with dragging displays precisely
<ochosi> no idea how to do that without an apply button
<bluesabre> I might check to see what elementary has in that regard
<bluesabre> since they hate excess anything
<ochosi> i think they use the gnome3 stuff
<ochosi> if not, it'll be in vala
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre checks his Luna vm
<ochosi> so it'll be easy to tell even from looking at the source
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/A2ImK8k
<bluesabre> just feels wrong
<bluesabre> unbalanced
<ochosi> yup, that seems to be plain gnome
<ochosi> weee, ochosi made a more balanced mockup than elementary
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> http://manual.openlp.org/_images/gnome3displays.png
<ochosi> looks familiar ^ ?
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> ubuntu also uses the same dialog afaik
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> time for xfce to stand out again
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we've gotta keep this up
<ochosi> indeed :)
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run for a bit, bbl
<ochosi> heh, well i probably won't be around then anymore
<bluesabre> probably
<ochosi> will also try to get some sleep now
<bluesabre> will you be around this weekend any?
<ochosi> but i'll be around in the morning
<ochosi> i'll try, but it's going to be sunny outside
<ochosi> and the beach is so near...
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> fair enough
<ochosi> if it rains, i'll surely be around
<ochosi> i guess saturday i should be able to make some time
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> we should arrange/plan it a bit though
<bluesabre> I might be on in the morning
<bluesabre> going to try to work a bit extra tomorrow
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> k, hf bluesabre 
<boxer> Good evening everyone
<ochosi> hi boxer 
<boxer> the distos looking good :)
<ochosi> thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: here's the complete diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7503764/
<bluesabre> ... and I have no idea how to create a new branch on git.xfce now
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/2f51d54f2efc7b9c87e39fb114adb06a974dcb67
<bluesabre> since it might be worthwhile to pull in upstream
<bluesabre> woops, tack that on to it as well: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-power-manager/commit/4ad07201e3569443024b10783515f94454618381
<bluesabre> now to work on the ubuntu package version of that
<bluesabre> ok, fixed package uploaded to xubuntu-dev ppa (since thats where the previous one was)
<bluesabre> working on fixed lls now
<bluesabre> ochosi: fixed lls uploaded, let's hope I made proper sense of this...
<bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = TRUE
<bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key:handle-lid-switch
<bluesabre> and 
<bluesabre> /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch = FALSE
<bluesabre> handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
<bluesabre> So if lock-screen-suspend-hibernate is true, make this false.
<bluesabre> hopefully that's the end of that fiasco :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: both packages are now live, and seem to work as expected
<bluesabre> (as far as I can tell)
<elfy> ochosi: I'm due to expire from -release in a week - can you deal with that please
<elfy> blue sabre will be expiring at the same time
<elfy> can I either have a password for the -users m/l or stop getting the moderation mails please
<knome> elfy, lol, i'll do that for you now
<Unit193> +1
<knome> that's how we treat people who do not wish to be subscribed to the -users list anyway ;)
<knome> make them moderators but not give the password.
<knome> would you rather want to subscribe? :P
<jhenke> morning folks
<ochosi> morning folks
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> knome: so you've taken care of all the expiration dates already?
<ochosi> bluesabre: awesome, will take it for a ride now and then torture elfy with it next
<ochosi> elfy: and just so you know, we're really trying to move all relevant conversations to this channel...
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup, seems to all work as expected (also checked the xfconf settings and the lightlocker desktop file)! awesome sauce!
<ochosi> elfy: whenever you're around and testy, please update the xubuntu-dev PPA for new packages of xfpm and lls and repeat the instructions you posted on the bugreport
<knome> ochosi, no... i postponed them for some time to allow reorganizing the release team
<knome> ochosi, people *will* expire unless you extend their membership
<ochosi> right
<knome> if you need more thinking time, just make them expire one month later
<ochosi> i'm still waiting for the technical lead stuff to be decided to be able to put ppl on the release team
<ochosi> i guess it'll be elfy, me and $dev-lead
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm reposting the testing instructions on the bugreport btw
<ochosi> we can expect that it won't work for everyone, because some ppl misunderstood the bug description in the past and hence wanted to see something else fixed...
<elfy> ochosi: what I've done with people in -qa is set it so they expire a week or so after cycle release
<elfy> will get to the PPA shortly 
<knome> elfy, pretty much same what is going on with -release, but  now() > $release+7
<ochosi> i've added a huge disclaimer to the testing instructions now, let's hope ppl also read it
<elfy> ochosi: is that like TOPIC or STUCK THREAD ?
<elfy> good luck with that then :p
<ochosi> heh, yeah
<ochosi> well it makes me feel better and isn't that what ultimately counts ;)
<elfy> yea you have to hope so - if not it's time to pack up your toys and move along lol 
 * ochosi hates to pack up his toys...
 * elfy does to 
<elfy> I've been known to chuck them out of the pram though :)
<elfy> ochosi: checking the ppa and suspend - check with llightlocker - purge - check with xscreensaver ?
<ochosi> well, if/when you check with xscreensaver, you have to change an xfconf setting
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> let's do this: first check ll, and if it works, ping me :)
<ochosi> then we continue with xscreensaver
<elfy> ack
<bluesabre> good luck guys, let me know how it goes :)
<bluesabre> bbl
<elfy> ochosi: that failed
<elfy> bluesabre: not well ;)
<ochosi> that blows
<bluesabre> ack
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> what did not work?
<ochosi> elfy: can you paste the following for us ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
<bluesabre> and xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -l -v
<ochosi> and also "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
<ochosi> oh, well mine is more accurate ;)
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> ummm
<ochosi> and "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
<elfy> you know I'm going to have to type all that out ... 
<bluesabre> do mine
<bluesabre> its shorter
<bluesabre> and will list everything
<bluesabre> (assuming you can pastebinit)
<ochosi> bluesabre: fun idea: maybe there's also a race condition *with* logind...
<bluesabre> could be
<hobgoblin> ochosi: which xfconf command please
<ochosi> 1) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch"
<ochosi> 2) "xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/lock-screen-suspend-hibernate"
<ochosi> 3) ~/.config/autostart/light-locker.desktop
<hobgoblin> ochosi bluesabre - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7505263/
<ochosi> OK
<ochosi> there's an obvious flaw
<ochosi> not sure why though
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> i need to figure out the xfconf-query command for you first...
<bluesabre> killall xfce4-power-manager
<ochosi> the logind-handle-lid-switch needs to be created
<ochosi> ah, or follow bluesabre  ;)
<bluesabre> xfce4-power-manager --no-daemon --debug
<bluesabre> this will give debug output while running/changing things
<bluesabre> then open light-locker-settings
<hobgoblin> ok -done that
<bluesabre> toggle lock on suspend off... apply... on... apply
<hobgoblin> done
<bluesabre> looking for something similar to
<bluesabre> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
<bluesabre> on the xfpm output
<hobgoblin> TRACE[xfpm-manager.c:553] xfpm_manager_inhibit_sleep_systemd(): Inhibiting systemd sleep: handle-power-key:handle-suspend-key:handle-hibernate-key
<bluesabre> ok, at this point it should work correctly
<bluesabre> try to see if you're still affected, since we know the output is correct
<hobgoblin> just shut the lid then:)
<elfy> I really don't like pidgin :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> me neither
<elfy> ok - that worked that time
<ochosi> weeee
<bluesabre> excellent!
<elfy> only difference being the killall 
<ochosi> \o/
 * ochosi pats bluesabre on the shoulder
<bluesabre> cool, so I'm guessing ochosi didn't have you murder xfpm in his steps
<ochosi> hey, i *did* propose a full restart
<ochosi> just to be sure
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> I did that :p
<ochosi> maybe xfpm doesn't like its properties being messed with live
<bluesabre> just to be on the safe side...
<elfy> I upgraded what was necessary - reinstalled lls and xfpm, rebooted then shut the lid
<ochosi> elfy: right, did you change the lls setting after the reboot?
<elfy> no
<ochosi> hmright
<ochosi> that might be a problem in the instructions
<elfy> checked they were right thought
<elfy> so 
<ochosi> cause then still the old xfpm is running
<ochosi> when you change the setting
<elfy> 1 reinstall packages
<ochosi> and it won't exist yet
<elfy> 2 - set lls back and forth
<elfy> bah 
<elfy> killall xfpm
<bluesabre> yes, because lls has to toggle the brand new xfpm setting
<elfy> then set lls
<ochosi> 1) reinstall packages 2) restart 3) toggle lls 4) close lid
<elfy> then reboot 
<elfy> ochosi: yep
<bluesabre> ok, well I think you guys have it from here.  If we get some more confirmation, I'll propose this to be uploaded to utopic/trusty-proposed
<bluesabre> gotta go to work now, bbl :)
<elfy> cya bluesabre 
<elfy> ochosi: anything else needed from 14.04?
<ochosi> elfy: not for now, thanks a bunch!
 * ochosi updates the instructions on the bugreport..
<elfy> ok
<hobgoblin> bye then :)
<ochosi> phew, so let's hope this (still) works for most ppl so we can finally close that nasty bugreport
<ochosi> and move on
<elfy> that would be awesome :)
<elfy> acck'd the bug report
<ochosi> ty
<brainwash> and the button/lid actions still work fine?
<ochosi> yup, they have separate bool settings that are true by default
<brainwash> ok
<bluesabre> ochosi: still flawed
<bluesabre> lock on suspend *must* be toggled
<bluesabre> turn it off, apply, turn it on, apply
<bluesabre> or the new xfconf setting will never be applied
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, wanna update that in the bugreport?
<bluesabre> gotta run out the door
<ochosi> or i guess you want me to do the walk of shame (again)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> well actually it says it must be toggled
<ochosi> you know
<bluesabre> 4. Open light-locker-settings and make sure "Lock on suspend" is enabled (if it already is, disable and then re-enable it, then hit "Apply").
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> my bad
<ochosi> ;)
<bluesabre> confusing step
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<bluesabre> but double apply might make a difference
<bluesabre> not sure
<bluesabre> anyway, bbl
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
<elfy> ochosi: so what's the final verdict on the mailing list issue now that we're a week later?
<ochosi> elfy: stop asking difficult questions!
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> no :p
<ochosi> i guess the logical move is to carry on with the decision, as the vote is still clearly for closing it
<ochosi> i'd suggest a trial period i think
<ochosi> we close it for a month and see what happens
<ochosi> knome: what do you think? ^
<knome> heyyy... you're the XPL :P
<ochosi> knome: i know, but you proposed the ML change
<ochosi> so i mostly wanted your input on it
<ochosi> elfy, bluesabre: yay, so far 3 positive feedbacks on the lid bugreport!
<knome> since there are $any worries about this, we could also just try to be follow up on each inappropriate thread in the mailing list for a while
<knome> and also set $some peoples' moderation flag
<ochosi> i'd be fine with that too
<ochosi> basically anything that improves the situation
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> but actually, since we started talking, there hasn't been so much inappropriate stuff
<knome> true
<ochosi> comes at certain times it seems
<knome> there was one that was stuck in the moderation queue
<knome> i replied to the sender and dismissed the message for the list
<ochosi> great
<knome> so what kind of policy would you propose?
<knome> one inappropriate mail -> moderation flag?
<knome> two mails?
<ochosi> two strikes and you're out :Ãp
<knome> so after one "strike", should moderators be in touch with the offender privately?
<ochosi> you looked at the stats a bit and generally seem to have a better overview, do we have many frequent offenders?
<knome> i didn't look at offender count
<knome> besides,
<knome> those stats weren't necessarily true
<ochosi> awesome :p
<knome> i mean
<knome> they most probably weren't the *whole truth*
<ochosi> i generally would prefer if moderators were in touch privately, but then moderators need to coordinate
<knome> because obviously, i didn't check if something was *really* inappropriate
<ochosi> to know who has been dealt with
<knome> i just checked things that came from non-team
<knome> yeah, i always cc -owner when i send mails to offenders
<ochosi> ok, then that's good
<ochosi> let's make it two strikes and then you're flagged
<knome> i don't think there is -moderators, but we could just make it a policy to moderators to need that
<knome> *to need to do that
<knome> hmm, right, -owner also covers moderators
<ochosi> knome: i need to run, could you send a summary of that policy we discussed to the ML?
<ochosi> and maybe say it's a trial phase of one month, if someone really objects we can always re-open the discussion and vote again
<Unit193> Looking at the diff between xubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-core, I'd think we should pull in fonts-droid and fonts-liberation (xfce4-terminal uses one of these). and perhaps software-properties-gtk, tumbler (thunar enhancement), thunar-volman, and maybe some in the "other GUI apps" section?  Any thoughts?
<Unit193> Also, since the panel defaults to whisker, might kind of want to add that.  (I personally think it's more of an additional feature, but as it's part of the default look and you lose functionality without it...)
<knome> i thought we defaulted to dejavu sansa last cycle
<knome> if not, let's do it this cycle
<knome> what's using zenity?
<Unit193> zenity is easy dialog boxes, no idea what requires it.  rdepends aren't much interesting, and purge would only remove zenity.
<knome> i know what it is :)
<Unit193> Appears to be nothing exactly pulling it in, but it's not too large anyway.  Thought one of Sean's applications did, but not seeing it in the dep list.
<knome> yeah, i think i've had to actually install it before
<knome> it's used in the slideshow testing
<knome> well, kind of
<knome> you can bypass using it if you want to test a specific slideshow
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<Unit193> Oh, last one I didn't comment on, xfce4-indicator-plugin/indicator-*
<knome> i've no idea about that
<knome> whisker for -core? i don't know, i'm actually a bit unsure if that should be it
<knome> i'd *probably* be in the same lines of "additional feature"
<Unit193> Exactly, but the config for the panel has it rather than applicationsmenu.
<knome> yeah, but will the core package share the same config?
<Unit193> Yes.
<Unit193> Mind if I paste the links somewhere not in this channel?
<knome> well you can dump then in a pad, then paste
<Unit193> https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF Something like that.
<Unit193> Checking it out now.
<Unit193> knome: Still with me, kermit?
<knome> yes darling
<Unit193> Can we postpone until 15.04? :D
<knome> i guess
<Unit193> Think Sean fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1310304
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310304 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 14.04 installs lightdm conf file to outdated/incorrect location" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Seems we have some interest in the idea, but not much feedback from -devel.
<Unit193> (ML)
<elfy> I'll not snigger ... 
<Unit193> elfy: Yes, yes, same problem as you, only less sent. :P
<knome> Unit193, well i think we need to get similar process to the mir testing - have a real iso to boot
<elfy> might be worth bumping it on the m/l too 
<Unit193> knome: Like http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.04-i386.iso or http://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-core-14.10-i386.iso ?
<knome> Unit193, yeah, like that... and putting it on the mailing list
<Unit193> Well thought the point was to install it, since it's a meta.
<knome> yeah.... but is it really installable as it would install with a real system?
<knome> or do we still have the "it is different than from archive" -problem?
<knome> if yes, can we solve that?
<knome> if there is no other way than put the metapackage in the archive, maybe we should do that ASAP in the beginning of a cycle
<knome> probably 15.04 in that case
<Unit193> Dang, those are big icons.  Yeah, still have the tasksel test problem.  Right now I'm still doing the install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core.  In theory, you could perhaps get the same effect if you install everything in that list.
<knome> what about in practice?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> I haven't done it.
<knome> be initiative then ;)
<Unit193> Not quite sure how recommends works with that, but yeah, making the script now.
<Unit193> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ for anyone else interested.
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Hm/
<Unit193> If this is actually a target for 14.10, then it should likely go on some blueprint/trello, right?
<elfy> new features perhaps 
<Unit193> FWIW, I'm using the /xubuntu-core.sh script to test.
<brainwash> where can I see the list of packages installed by -core?
<Unit193> brainwash: https://pad.riseup.net/p/HbKQDgePoHBF - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core.html - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core-d.html
<elfy> night all 
<Unit193> brainwash: Also, not in -offtopic?  https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin/commit/bbff6e73627ba1ecc62860cd7b6d8310b6fe042a#diff-9c1775b6a7de1ca31a63ddb218fe9473R42 might be interesting?
<Unit193> elfy: Good night.
<brainwash> i don't care about offtopic
<brainwash> let me check the links
<brainwash> looks solid
<brainwash> what's the deal with gucharmap?
<Unit193> Doing a test from the mini, should simulate a tasksel install with pastebinit output.
<Unit193> Unicode character map, depends on your opinion if it's something "everyone" should have or needs.
<brainwash> not essential
<Unit193> Sounds good to me, thanks.
<brainwash> could light-locker be replaced with something more simple?
<brainwash> mmh, the design/appearance should stay the same I guess
<Unit193> That was my question, something like slock? :P
<knome> the core package should still deliver the xubuntu experience, not just a lighterweight ubuntu+xfce variant
<brainwash> thought so
<Unit193> Hence xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork.
<brainwash> is -core targeting advanced users?
<knome> one could argue light-locker contributes much to the "xubuntu experience"
<Unit193> brainwash: To some extent, I believe it is.
<Unit193> Remember, we do have http://docs.xubuntu.net/1404/appendix-packages.html for other hints in case core doesn't ship them.
<brainwash> mmh, question mark behind thunar-volman?
<brainwash> automounting devices is rather important, or?
<Unit193> Not sure why that was downgraded to recommends (hence, missing.)  Would there be a reason to do so?
<brainwash> it's still optional
<brainwash> you can mount stuff via terminal too :)
<Unit193> Would still think that's a bit important for Xubuntu though.
<brainwash> xubuntu installs recommended packages by default anyway
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/47801/ that's what happened last time with recommends turned on.
<brainwash> oh :D
<Unit193> Trying it again with https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu-core.sh to simulate a tasksel install.
<brainwash> mmh, no gui text editor?
<Unit193> Not for that script, nope.
<brainwash> maybe I should stop thinking about -core.. don't wanna go insane :D
<brainwash> but good job so far Unit193 
<Unit193> Uh oh.  Well I'm thankful for the help, brainwash!
<Unit193> brainwash: Oh, so does that commit I linked to do what I think it does?
<brainwash> don't know
<brainwash> what do you expect?
<Unit193> knome: Both actually look fairly sane: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81244/ http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81243/
<ochosi> evening everyone
<Unit193> Some differences, one you get pulseaudio the other you don't.
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
<Unit193> http://www.diffchecker.com/7ssjpu1h There you go.
<ochosi> howdy Unit193 
<ochosi> still reading backlog etc
<ochosi> ah right, so xubuntu-core it is
<ochosi> i think we should give it a try this cycle
<ochosi> fine, fine, the last one was an LTS, but now we can experiment a bit
<ochosi> if it goes wrong, we learn and do a better -core in 15.04
<ochosi> so i suggest you add it to the -features blueprint, Unit193, and assign it to yourself
<ochosi> then send an email to the ML about it and we can organize some testing with elf
<Unit193> So for whoever cares: tasksel looks good, --no-install-recommends looks good, but do not just apt install xubuntu-core: http://paste.openstack.org/raw/81249/
<Unit193> ochosi: Already did the second bit last cycle, is there anything you'd like to change?
<ochosi> i think micahg raised some concerns (that i don't recall now) and you changed some stuff (unless i misunderstood the backlog), so a new mail to the ML seems in order
<ochosi> also, since it's a new cycle and we didnt get so much testing for it last cycle, we should give it a more serious try onw
<ochosi> now
<ochosi> there were just too many new features last cycle to take care of this too imo
<Unit193> michag didn't like that --no-install-recommends was recommended/needed, which in theory if you use tasksel it isn't now.
<ochosi> actually a few cycles ago, we didn't recommend/set the recommends...
<ochosi> so i personally don't feel about it as strongly as he does
<ochosi> i also agree that the -core thing is something for advanced users rather than for the average joe
<ochosi> and we can always put that in a disclaimer
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-24
<Unit193> There you go, you have mail.
<ochosi> ty :)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: hey, i think we should pull in the new system-software-update and the new ubiquity icon
<ochosi> sergio-br2: obviously there are still a few sizes missing for either...
<ochosi> Unit193: it sounds ridiculous, but it could be that we also need to add shimmer-themes
<ochosi> or we need to fix something in xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1322305
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfc4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i would actually prefer to fix that somehow other than adding shimmer-themes as a depends
<Unit193> ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core-d.html#_other xubuntu-artwork deps on shimmer-themes, I made sure they were installed.
<Unit193> I also quite agree that xfce4-session shouldn't have that as a dep.
<ochosi> -session? you mean -settings?
<ochosi> either way, yeah, -artwork should depend on it
<ochosi> and we should probably look into the xfce session this cycle
<ochosi> i.e. whether it really makes sense to distinguish between the xubuntu and the xfce session
<ochosi> wanna look at that too, Unit193 ^ ?
<ochosi> since you're already dealing with a similar problem-set with -core
<Unit193> ochosi: Unless you want to lose the Xubuntu panel, power manager settings, themes, and stuff, you want to keep the Xubuntu session.
<ochosi> no, i mean in the standard iso we have a xubuntu and an xfce session
<ochosi> i wonder whether the xfce session really makes sense
<ochosi> we haven't really taken very good care of it during the last cycles, frankly, i've rarely started one and when i did, it always felt somewhat "broken"
<Unit193> The xfce session comes from upstream.
<Unit193> xfce4-session: /usr/share/xsessions/xfce.desktop
<ochosi> humm, right :/
<ochosi> still, that doesn't necessarily mean we can't or should't get rid of it
<Unit193> Hmm.  So 'tasksel' method installs indicator-application but not xfce4-indicator-plugin, thus no nm-applet.
<ochosi> but nm-applet also has a fallback trayicon, no?
<ochosi> so why would we need indicators in -core?
<Unit193> It seems it 'detects' indicator-application..
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> so that pulls in the whole indicator stack i presume?
<Unit193> The ISO/--no-install-recommends is fine, so that method you still won't get indicators, but tasksel has the problem so I've got it so tasksel will also pull in the plugin, see?
<Unit193> Meh, it's not so bad.
<Unit193> 3 packages*
<ochosi> how is the overall comparison of -desktop vs. -core atm in terms of size and packages?
<Unit193> tasksel'd core is 2.3G all installed.  Seed is not bad in terms of diff (seen the link?)  Booted up my utopic Xubuntu, and it's 3.2G but I've removed abiword, gnumeric, gmusicbrowser, and others so isn't a good thing to compare to.
<ochosi> i think it'd be nice to have a comparison in terms of iso-size, installed size and ram-usage
<ochosi> hm, indicator-power can't go?
<ochosi> or is it just because our default settings hide the trayicon that that's still there?
<ochosi> (fwiw, i hope we can get rid of indicator-power with the next xfpm release...)
<ochosi> started to look at the diff now, makes sense to me
<Unit193> Erm, not trying to turn that into an indicator are you? :/
<Unit193> And yeah, I can drop that one too.
<ochosi> no, xfpm will have a panel-plugin instead of a trayicon
<Unit193> Yey! \o/  (I like the mouseover, indicators don't get that.)
<ochosi> imo indicator-messages should also go
<ochosi> what would it be used by?
<Unit193> Done and done.
<ochosi> if pidgin and thunderbird arent
<ochosi> datetime-plugin?
<ochosi> that's kinda usesless too, as the panel's clock plugin does all we want/need now
<ochosi> we don't even use it in our default panel layout anymore
<Unit193> So basically how it works, we get two for the price of one.  We get a core barebones with --no-install-recommends, and we get a minimal one with tasksel.  I keep forgetting that the clock one is built in, click for calendar right?
<ochosi> yup, both open a calendar on left-click
<Unit193> So, done.
<ochosi> ah, so -core barebones is everything in the list (including the ones in brackets), tasksel is without the ones in brackets?
<Unit193> Reverse that.
<ochosi> oh , right, whoopsie :)
<ochosi> gucharmap?
<ochosi> i also wonder if we need appfinder when we have whiskermenu in -core...
<Unit193> Thought I'd just dropped that one..
<Unit193> appfinder is also alt+f2, soo...
<ochosi> maybe you did, i'm looking here: https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.utopic/core.html
<ochosi> yeah, but whisker also executes commands
<Unit193> That's the right link.
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> just saying, it's not a huge problem if we install appfinder too
<ochosi> it's tiny
<ochosi> libasound2-plugins does what?
<Unit193> I'm not really sure, so I left it.
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> frankly, if we're not shipping indicator-sound, we should install xfce4-mixer
<ochosi> since we're not using pulseaudio, it should work fine, but it might pull some gstreamer stuff...
<Unit193> barebones doesn't, minimal gets pulseaudio.
<ochosi> humm
<Unit193> FWIW, volumeicon is great for alsa. :P
<ochosi> yeah, but if minimal has pulse, we need *some* mixer for it
<ochosi> i'd really love to replace pavucontrol somehow
<ochosi> but i fear we'll have to write the replacement ourselves..
<ochosi> and i think it's a rather complicated thing to do
<ochosi> (the panel plugin for pulseaudio is already kinda written, so maybe we can at some point get rid of that indicator too)
<Unit193> So for minimal I can add pavucontrol, or even indicator-sound+pavu
<ochosi> why screenshooter?
<Unit193> "Some screenshot application is handy" --I don't know. :P
<ochosi> without screenshooter, what happens when you hit the PrintScreen button?
<Unit193> Remember, that only gets into minimal.
<ochosi> right, true
<Unit193> But can remove it too, no big deal.
<Unit193> xfce4-places-plugin can go right?
<ochosi> nah, it's kinda fine i guess
<ochosi> yeah, we don't use that by defualt
<ochosi> and imo it's an additional feature
<Unit193> Yeah, it's weird and unused IMO. :P
<ochosi> ok, i think libasound-plugins is pulled because it depends on libasound
<ochosi> which is basically alsa support 
<ochosi> (as far as i understand)
<Unit193> So you end up with pavucontrol in minimal?  Without indicator?
<ochosi> kinda okayish, although the indicator doesn't hurt if we have indicator-application anyway
<ochosi> humm, can we get rid of plymouth for !minimal?
<Unit193> You can't get rid of plymouth in Ubuntu.
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> looks good to me then
<ochosi> thanks for this!
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep now
<Unit193> ochosi: Thanks a ton for the review!  Everything's been refreshed now.
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> looking forward to this in .10
<ochosi> this should be our answer to all the "install libreoffice" requests from then on :p
<Unit193> Well huh, less depends on plymouth than it used to, but you still lose some core things. :P
<Unit193> Erm, zenity is worse than I thought.  (Also, core and minimal ISOs up.)
<brainwash> elfy: just read the forums thread about pkexec, maybe we could provide 1 policy for a general wrapper which could be used like gksudo
<brainwash> for 14.10
<brainwash> if this idea does not cause any negative side effects
<knome> not being able to distinguish what needs the permission?
<knome> also, wouldn't it pretty much defeat the purpose?
<brainwash> which purpose?
<brainwash> to see in the password window which app really needs the permissions?
<elfy> brainwash: I've been mulling that business over
<elfy> closest I've got is to doing one for those that we decide - mousepad/thunar - things that a *normalish* user might find they need
<elfy> or - seed gksu :)
<drc> pleia2: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-trusty.html  Here, as requested.
<brainwash> your review?
<drc> no. dedoimedo's
<brainwash> ok
<drc> a while back she requested news stuff to be mentioned here, as she will read the backlogs here :)
 * drc is assuming that she has not been "shot while trying to escape in the latest coup" :)
<drc> Sorry...how come everything sounds funnier in your head than it does coming out of your mouth (or fingers)?
<drc> I meant to say "assuming she still has the responsibility for such things."
<Unit193> elfy: Yes, I like that idea.  Lets seed gksu.
 * pleia2 adds dedoimedo link to press page and resumes day off
<elfy> ty pleia2 - I guess I could have done that - I forget I've the key too
<Unit193> ali1234: Hello.  Have you noticed it xfwm git master whenever you alt+tab you get 'xfwm4-Message: (nil)' in the terminal output (or .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log)?
<ali1234> no i haven't noticed that
<ali1234> i do not use alt-tab
<ochosi> bluesabre: so far no negative reports on the xfpm/lls patch. i suggest you go ahead and push that towards utopic so we can SRU it back to trusty
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll be sure to do that today
<bluesabre> got a few things going on, looking at getting a new car/place to live
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> also, glade-gtk2 is oficially unusable in 14.04
<bluesabre> *as far as I am concerned
<ochosi> oh wow
<Unit193> ali1234: OK, only asked since you've done the most with xfwm so know it better.  Thanks.
<ochosi> yeah, same here, glade-gtk2 is totally messed up
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll try to work on the devices tab a bit tonight so i can hopefully get you that screenshot i promised yesterday
<bluesabre> oh good, wasn't going to say anything about that
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well the devices tab still needs tweaks tweaks tweaks
<ochosi> mostly packing though
<bluesabre> s/tweak/hack/g
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi bug 1322384
<ubottu> bug 1322384 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole Media Player fails to play audio CD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322384
 * bluesabre hides
<ochosi> fwiw, i think all patches we're carrying in xubuntu are in xfpm master now
<elfy> linked it 
<bluesabre> elfy, I'll take a look at it
<ochosi> elfy: i guess bluesabre screwed that up when he fixed the dvd support ;)
<bluesabre> gotta find an audio cd
<bluesabre> or burn one
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> bluesabre: i don't remember right now, did we wanna work on something specific this weekend?
<Unit193> ochosi: That's great, does that bother the BSD folks? :P
<ochosi> Unit193: no, as eric made suspend without systemd work again
<Unit193> Nice.
<bluesabre> ochosi: nothing specific, got some hacking going on and need to get releases to utopic/trusty
<ochosi> so the next xfpm release will be quite a treat i think
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, and we need to get you upload rights...
<bluesabre> yeah, need to get to that
<bluesabre> and need to apply for tech lead
<ochosi> yup, not so many days left ;)
<ochosi> even though there hasnt exactly been a flood of applicants :p
<bluesabre> surprisingly
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> did mine get lost? 
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> huhu
<ochosi> elfy: re-send please ;)
<Unit193> micahg has been offline entirely a week, should we be worried?
<elfy> only had one stamp ochosi 
<Unit193> elfy: I got it for you, let me send it in. ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: he told me he got promoted @work, so i guess he'll be busier than before
<bluesabre> also, thanks for the monday mtg ochosi, I should be able to make it (holiday in the states)
<Unit193> Yey!  And boo.
<elfy> I read that in channel somewhere I'm sure
<ochosi> bluesabre: cool
<Unit193> I think I did too, elfy.
<ochosi> i guess cycling meeting-times isn't such a bad thing then
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: we still have a few greeter branches to review btw
<bluesabre> yeah, I know
<ochosi> oh, and my parole branch :p
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> can you add my to the trello board?
<bluesabre> "seandavis5"
<elfy> bluesabre: done :)
<bluesabre> thanks!
<elfy> welcome ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi, elfy, are we interested in tracking development on there as well?  Should it have a label, or go with community/new features?
<elfy> ran out of labels - and given that there appeared to be an enormous interest I didn't worry too much :)
<elfy> if you think that it'll help to track development I'm all for it 
<bluesabre> yay, now I'm @bluesabre on there
<Unit193> elfy: Anything you'd like me to put on there or update?
<elfy> ochosi is an admin on there - I guess that any leads can be too 
<elfy> then they can add boards - not sure a 'user' can do that 
<elfy> Unit193: just use common sense - if you think it should be there - put it on - certainly for any QA stuff go ahead
<elfy> bluesabre: try and add a board
<elfy> list 
<bluesabre> elfy, added a "Dev 14.04" list
<ochosi> so we keep an overview per team?
<ochosi> and the team updates the blueprints so the XPL and everyone else have the grand total overview?
<Unit193> elfy: OK, I didn't think I had anything, but trying to do the "Annoy elfy as little as possible." task.
<elfy> ochosi: that's was how I'd initially set it up
<bluesabre> I think this will work well
<elfy> ochosi: but then you wanted my QA stuff there - and I'm greedy and have a bunch 
<elfy> bluesabre: well I did too :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, then let's go back to that, a huge overview board doesn't make any sense
<ochosi> unless you can conditionally show/hide stuff
<elfy> you can filter labels 
<ochosi> right
<elfy> ochosi: a general board for everything is how kubuntu do it
<elfy> https://trello.com/b/fNxJO1Ac/14-10
<ochosi> oh, they also use trello?
<elfy> yea - that information is on our spec ;)
<elfy> nice to see the XPL read that lol
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> personally I think if we were all to have to do/doing and done - it'll be a nightmare
<ochosi> then let's stick with per-team management
<ochosi> i'm fine with that, just means more power/trust to the leadas
<ochosi> leads
<elfy> if we are going to use it - we need to think about labels now 
<elfy> then have one to do list, 1 doing, 1 done
<elfy> then the 'team' can filter the label to see there stuff or any other lists they want to see
<elfy> if you add dates to things - you can toggle the calendar sheet
<ochosi> elfy: well you're the trello expert, i've never used it for anything serious... what would you wanna do?
<elfy> well - knowing that at least one other person/team is interested in using it I can invest a bit more time in it 
<Unit193> I try, and I'm trying to look at it more than last time.
<elfy> I know that Unit193 :)
<ochosi> well for artwork it doesnt make too much sense as i'm more or less a one-man show
<elfy> it's not quite what I mean though :)
<ochosi> and sergio-br2 and me are mostly using github to track issues/bugs in the icon-theme
<ochosi> and gtk themes are also in port/bugfix mode
<ochosi> not much else to do there
<elfy> ochosi: yea I agree - but as XPL you'd be able to catch more detail perhaps there than on blueprints
<ochosi> yeah, but as i'm also the artwork lead...
<ochosi> i'm just sayin, i see the value where we're really working collaboratively
<ochosi> so for dev/features i think it can be quite good
<elfy> is there value in people knowing what QA plans are?
<ochosi> well i'm not saying i want to *hide* my artwork workitems... :)
<Unit193> ochosi: abortx in #xubuntu has something about indicator-plugin.
<elfy> do we need a label for every team - or could art/web have one to share - as there's not going to be much in it?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, maybe they could
<ochosi> Unit193: he just joined, you know more than i, i presume?
<bluesabre> dev could drop some items into -qa
<Unit193> "Hi, I use Xubuntu 14.04 fresh install. Indicator Plugin keeps crashing. It seems to happen because of the application menus (?) Any ideas?"
<Unit193> There you go.
<Unit193> ochosi: Thought you were looking to fix that?
<elfy> ochosi: we have 7 blueprints - which more or less = teams - we have 6 labels we can use
<ochosi> Unit193: nah, why did you think that? :) andrzejr was just asking about it, but then there seem to be some patches necessary and ... tedium
<bluesabre> I'm finally able to get interested in 14.10 since we've started fixing the critical 14.04 bugs
<ochosi> +1
<elfy> ochosi: tomorrow I will move the QA stuff into the general to do/doing/done lists after I've labelled them - have a look after that and at filtering
<ochosi> elfy: sounds good to me!
<ochosi> can we also link to the filtered trello page?
<ochosi> or will links always show everything
<elfy> the link is the board 
<elfy> I might want to see QA - you might want to see something else - so you'd filter that
<ochosi> ok, so no way of bookmarking filters/views
<elfy> not that I know of 
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> bluesabre: so perhaps don't do too much in your lists till we've come to some sort of plan 
<bluesabre> trello has an api, we might be able to bend it to our will https://trello.com/docs/
<ochosi> meh, we can always copypaste stuff
<ochosi> that'd be awesome
<ochosi> hooking it up to launchpad
<bluesabre> but I'll investigate that myself when I have time
<bluesabre> or if anybody else is interested ;)
<elfy> if we did that I would guess 6 boards - 14.04.1 todo/doing/done and the same for 14.10
<ochosi> maybe knome, pleia2 or someone else from the web side of the force
<elfy> obviously uses a cookie - if I go and come back it's filtered to how I left it
<ochosi> i suggest that bluesabre still drops in all his stuff for dev, we can always juggle stuff around and it's not sooo much time that's lost with that
<ochosi> elfy: so we send ppl cookies instead of hyperlinks, problem solved!
<bluesabre> +1
<bluesabre> send me two cookies
<bluesabre> also, trello irc bot https://github.com/oisin/trellobo
<elfy> so - new features and dev share a label?
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi ^^
<elfy> do we need a community label?
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> +1
<elfy> roadmap?
<ochosi> no idea what goes in the community blueprint, aren't  *we* the community? ---p
<bluesabre> community = social media?
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> or
<elfy> I'd call that web
<bluesabre> mm
<elfy> bluesabre: I built this up against blueprints - so community was the increase devs type stuff last time
<bluesabre> ah
<elfy> I'd say that QA/Doc/Dev& New Features will be the most full 
<bluesabre> that makes sense
<elfy> art/website share one
<elfy> there is one for roadmap - does that really need one - that's an overacrhing thing - trello would be more detail, so perhaps roadmap can just stay as blueprint only
<bluesabre> yeah, roadmap and community I think would be fine as just blueprints
<bluesabre> not much active tracking needed there
<elfy> so we can split dev and new features 
<elfy> if that is of use to us
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> so if we kept the read for "DON'T LOSE TRACK HERE" type thing for everyone
<ochosi> i gotta run off for 1hr or so, i'll be back then though
<elfy> so I could use green for qa - and green and red for urgent QA 
<elfy> dev could use blue and blue/red
<elfy> I'll fiddle 
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> your patience is unmatched
<elfy> bluesabre: would it better to have dev and new feature seperate?
<bluesabre> I think so, they're related but not quite the same
<elfy> bluesabre: you still on there atm?
<bluesabre> yes
<elfy> if you are add a random card to one of the dev boards - then you can add a label - the list will tell you which to use 
<bluesabre> cool, looks good
<elfy> ok - so now in the sidebar - filter cards - just choose 'your' colour 
<elfy> then you'll just see those 
<elfy> if it helps to see what dates QA have include green
<elfy> then if everyone wanted to see 'urgent' - filter red :)
<bluesabre> excellent
<elfy> once things are set up - you can click the calendar at the top and everything is there 
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> what *I'm* wanting to do is try and make it as easy and logical now - so I don't end up fiddling later on lol
<bluesabre> yeah, just let me know if I need to switch gears with the dev-related stuff
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sadly I found no terminal client.
<elfy> bluesabre: now for SRU stuff - would that be date sensitive? eg - got to be done by such a day? 
<bluesabre> Unit193: for trello? :)
<elfy> you can put those in - they have to have dates to show on calendar 
<bluesabre> elfy: perhaps by 14.04.1
<elfy> so if all my stuff that is date sensitive is there - you could filter and see exactly when I'm doing something - then you know *when* you can easily fit something in :)
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> does 14.04.1 have any freeze dates, or is that something that will come up closer to release?
<elfy> bluesabre: I would imagine so - but the schedule is STILL draft and 14.04.1 isn't even on it :(
<bluesabre> I set the date for two weekends pre-.1
<bluesabre> so that should be 
<bluesabre> particularly since I should have it done this weekend
<bluesabre> or at least moving forward 
<elfy> bluesabre: now look ath the calendar for July and you can see that there's call for package testing the week prior - so you know I'm not planning anything for just prior to that
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> yeah, this should help with coordinating team efforts
<elfy> is that making sense?
<bluesabre> yeah
<elfy> cool - I'll do some work on that later tonight - so the dev stuff will end up moving into general boards - make sure they've got labels :)
<bluesabre> done
<bluesabre> thanks elfy!
<elfy> I'll do 3 for 14.04.1, 3 for 14.10 
<elfy> and leave the notes thing 
<bluesabre> good deal
<elfy> bluesabre: done playing now :)
<ochosi> back
<elfy> hi 
<ochosi> i see there are some updates in trello
<elfy> ochosi: yep
<elfy> I think that this will be the best way for us
<ochosi> cool
<elfy> 3 boards for 14.04.1 and for 14.10
<elfy> if we keep to our label colour - we can filter 'our's stuff
<ochosi> currently i only see 1 board
<elfy> if we use red for urgent/important etc then everyone can filter that with 'their' colour
<elfy> lists I meant
<ochosi> ah right
<elfy> sorry :)
<ochosi> don't mess with the terminology!! :)
<elfy> heh
<elfy> and then finally - if we date stuff that needs a date - everyone can see that on the calendar
<elfy> so 
<ochosi> what calendar?
<ochosi> trello or google?
<elfy> trello
<ochosi> humm, >1 calendar...
<elfy> well if someone can sync the 2 then \o/
<ochosi> heh
<elfy> where was I ... 
<elfy> so - if I use green and red (for urgent) and date where needed I can filter green and red and see my stuff
<elfy> if you use the purple and red - I would not see the basic stuff - but anything that was red I would see as well
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> does that make sense ?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> so urgent stuff cannot be filtered by tetam
<ochosi> team
<ochosi> unless you can filter multiple colors
<elfy> yea 
<ochosi> with AND not OR
<elfy> sorry meant to add that
<elfy> so I could filter QA and say dev and know what was going on with those two 
<elfy> which is actually what I've done :)
<elfy> so - now it's up to people to start using it - then we can make an informed decision on it's usefulness to us as a team
<elfy> I hope that it does work - if it makes life easier for the whole of us
<elfy> I expect that slickymaster will make a lot of use of it - he did last cycle
<ochosi> elfy: well i'd say let's try it and if it doesn't work we can always go back/forth during the cycle
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> i'm not too concerned as long as the big picture in the blueprints still works
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I agree 
<elfy> that's just going to be down to people doing it 
<elfy> once I started using it last cycle I found it a lot easier to keep on top of things that needed to be done by a certain date
<ochosi> yeah, i agree that from the blueprints the individual progress/state of workitems is sometimes not easy to judge
<ochosi> but in the end it'll always be the ppl knowing/using it
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> bluesabre: still around?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ish, brb
<bluesabre> running to starbucks
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> ochosi: what I am hoping for is that all of us can get a better picture of what the rest are up to 
<elfy> which *should* make things easier - I'm guessing that it'll help those that cross-over - like dev/new features/qa
<elfy> more than - say artwork or website
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> frankly, artwork as it is currently is wallpapers, icons and themes
<ochosi> and those are mostly evolving slowly per cycle
<elfy> it might be that in a month or so we could say - there doesn't seem any point in knowing when a wallpaper is changing
<elfy> and website stuff could be all in a rush right at the end
<ochosi> yeah, the wallpaper is probably most connected to the slideshow
<ochosi> or the screenshots for the release
<ochosi> but those things usually always happen at the last minute, and that's also somewhat logical
<ochosi> website stuff, not sure, was never too involved in that
<elfy> so slickymaster might like to see a date on there for wallpaper for instance if he's running docs
<elfy> bluesabre might like to know when I'm planning the next call 
<ochosi> i don't think the wallpaper is featured anywhere in the docs though
<ochosi> no imagery is in our docs, which makes the docs so resistant :)
<elfy> but he got involved with slideshow and I guess will again
<ochosi> btw, can we put the filter cards in a more prominent place?
<ochosi> they're somewhat hidden but rather essential
<ochosi> or do you just never change the sidebar's content?
<elfy> not sure I know what you mean
<elfy> oh
<elfy> hang on - click on the top 14.04.1 card
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and then?
<elfy> then see at the top - the current dev label - the + next to it
<elfy> you'll get the list of labels 
<ochosi> yup, i rather thought the filtering stuff that is currently in the sidebar
<ochosi> which was 1) hidden for me before (maybe i did that myself though) and 2) the most important view for me (filter cards) is yet another click away
<ochosi> just wanted to say it would be nice to have that in a more obvious place
<ochosi> although i guess the learning curve for trello isn't so bad
<elfy> yea - not sure we can do anything with that 
<ochosi> btw, why would you keep 14.04.1 and 14.10 in one board?
<elfy> and once you ARE filtering - then you get a box at the top - clicking on THAT - opens the filter list
<elfy> because it's current? 
<elfy> we can keep the same board if we carry on - archive 14.10 - still have 14.01 ( or change title to 14.04.2) then add 15.04 to the board
<ochosi> right
<elfy> I think at the moment the thing is to get people to try it - if it works then carry on, then we can look at if we want to do it differently
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> does that make sense to you?
<elfy> what I don't want is for us to end up with a bunch of stuff in different places while we're seeing if it works for us as a team
<ochosi> well if it gets too confusing and we decide we have to axe trello, it'll have to be merged back to LP
<ochosi> but it's still early in the cycle, let's try it
<elfy> none of this is on LP though :)
<elfy> well some is 
<elfy> but all the different testing things here for calls is one line in LP not 15 seperate lines 
<elfy> ochosi: one last thing if you subscribe/join a card - then everytime something happens to that card - you get an e-mail
<ochosi> yeah, that i've already tried/known :)
<elfy> last cycle I didn't do that 
<elfy> ok - wasn't sure what you've done with it 
<elfy> I've only been using it for a while myself 
<ochosi> while we probably won't use scrum in xubuntu, this article looks interesting: http://www.civicactions.com/blog/2012/oct/10/five_tips_for_using_trello_for_scrum
<ochosi> there is a bit of terminology that i'm unsure about still with trello
<ochosi> checklists?
<elfy> doing 14.10 list - the package testcases card - I've got a checklist in there
<ochosi> it all looks very powerful (as long as ppl use it enough)
<elfy> yea 
<ochosi> i'm wondering though, after skimming through the article above, whether 14.04.1 and 14.10 isn't TMI
<ochosi> depends a bit on what we wanna get into 14.04.1
<elfy> I really don't want people to use it just because - and I wouldn't ask them to either
<elfy> you could just have one list  for 14.04.1 
<elfy> if it's there then we ARE doing it for 14.04.1 
<elfy> I guess
<elfy> perhaps have one list for 14.04.1 - when it's done just archive it 
<ochosi> well i guess "doing"==inprogress no?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> one thing i miss here is the easy way to add bugs and get their status synced
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> that's a nice thing in blueprints
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I agree 
<ochosi> and the main reason why i guess for 14.04.1 ppl *will* have to look in two places
<ochosi> and the -bugs blueprint will most likely also only stay in launchpad
<elfy> I see no reason for that to be on this 
<elfy> and would be a nightmare anyway
<ochosi> well, other than just use one platform to rule them all
<ochosi> not necessarily, if it's a separate board
<elfy> except the manual syncing
<elfy> and why look at 2 lists that say the same thing?
<ochosi> elfy, Unit193: could you two get together and organize some feedback-testing for xubuntu-core? while i think that Unit193's seed file makes a lot of sense, it'd be nice to get some real feedback (most likely no need for specific test cases though, but just ask experienced users for feedback)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, obviously i'm thinking of trello doing the syncing for us :)
<elfy> ochosi: :)
<ochosi> if someone ever gets on this and hacks up the trello api
<elfy> and yep - the -core thing is fine - we'll get together and sort something out soonish
<ochosi> great, thanks!
<Unit193> Crap, right...
<brainwash> Unit193: did you already see bug 1309849 ?
<ubottu> bug 1309849 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xmir error message after login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309849
<Unit193> brainwash: No I hadn't.
<brainwash> bug 1302462
<ubottu> bug 1302462 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "network icon disappeared in xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302462
<brainwash> bug heat over 100
<elfy> night all
<brainwash> should be added to the bug blueprint I guess
<ochosi> right so upgraders have leftover desktop files for indicators...
<ochosi> yeah, feel free to
<brainwash> and what's the deal with bug 1322305 ?
<ubottu> bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfc4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322305
<brainwash> I suggest dropping the xubuntu patch
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> frankly, i've no idea why that patch was added
<brainwash> question is, can it be fixed in 14.04?
<brainwash> not sru worthy or?
<Unit193> There, I'll be annoyed no more.  Put in a domain redirect.
<ochosi> brainwash: nah, actually that's one of the reasons i wanted to discuss what we wanna do with the xfce session we're shipping
<ochosi> making it more meaningful might be good (or dropping it)
<brainwash> more meaningful? it's the default Xfce session
<brainwash> it's like the little brother
<ochosi> yeah, but we havent really looked at it and taken care of it for a few releases
<ochosi> every time i logged into the xfce session, it felt like a messed up xubuntu session
<brainwash> but that's the user's fault
<brainwash> if he manages to mix default settings of both sessions
<brainwash> personally I don't feel like a change is needed here
<ochosi> please comment on the bugreport
<brainwash> and suggest to drop the patch?
<brainwash> we still don't know why it was added in the first place :D
<brainwash>  A vanilla Xfce session will use Xfce and Rodent as default themes, but
<brainwash>  they are not shipped anymore on our images, so replace them with existing
<brainwash>  themes in order to provide a better experience to people choosing the
<brainwash>  'Xfce Session' over the 'Xubuntu Session'.
<brainwash> bug 947603
<ubottu> bug 947603 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "missing default icon theme" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947603
<brainwash> ah lol
<brainwash> so we a debian and a xubuntu patch
<brainwash> lucky it's late already and I don't feel like bothering with this right now :)
<ochosi> well if you can come up with a good solution, i'd appreciate it
<ochosi> i can't look at every bugreport myself there
<ochosi> brainwash: oh, i overlooked that this user is talking about an Ubuntu install
<ochosi> so actually i don't care so much about this bug
<ochosi> bug-heat -100 :)
<brainwash> well.. ofc he wasn't talking about xubuntu :D
 * ochosi is tired + distracted
<ochosi> night everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2014-05-25
<OvenWerks> ochosi, brainwash: With regard to the two sessions xubuntu/xfce, I personally think this is a DE package problem with all the DEs. The DE meta should include a -settings package that a flavour could ommit. A flavour would supply it's own -settings package. I do not know which xfce package installs the xfce.desktop file for the session, but if it is a lite enough package it could be replaced with the xubuntu-settings package.
<OvenWerks> maybe that dumb.. feel free to tell me so :)
<OvenWerks> First problem is that xfce4-settings is not the package that adds the session.
<OvenWerks> xfce4-session does that. This makes enough sense that I hesitate to suggest it be moved to xfce4-settings. 
<gry> would someone please only ship this distro with themes that support both gtk2 and gtk3? evince looks ugly with over a half of the themes
<Unit193> gry: Very few themes should be shipped by default already, and all should support both.
<Unit193> Can you name one of the themes that doesn't?
<gry> Unit193: it did not nuke the extra ones during the upgrade then. 'Oxydgen' theme is in the list and it doesn't.
<Unit193> Not sure where that one comes from, but sounds like the KDE one.
<gry> Unit193: "dpkg -S /usr/share/themes/Xfce-redmondxp" -- "gtk2-engines-xfce: /usr/share/themes/Xfce-redmondxp". This one does not have gtk3 support either, or whatever else prevents it from theming evince properly.
<Unit193> Yes, that'd be GTK3 since evince is a GTK3 application.
<gry> so... it's shipped but it does not support gtk 3 ?
<bluesabre> gry: the themes that are shipped fully support gtk3: Albatross, Bluebird, Greybird, Numix, and Orion
<bluesabre> themes that are included in the xfce packages may not support gtk3 as upstream xfce is still not gtk3
<bluesabre> but the only themes we ship are in the package "shimmer-themes"
<gry> can I like remove gtk2-engines-xfce package then? it's odd, I didn't install it manually
<bluesabre> yes, that should be fine. it will warn you if there are any packages that will also be removed
<gry> I removed gtk2-engines-xfce but it didn't remove that theme. Odd - package problem?
<bluesabre> hard to say
<bluesabre> ok, I need to go to bed
<bluesabre> be back tomorrow, night all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Good night!
<elfy> Unit193: is -core in a test worthy state?
<Unit193> I'd say so.
<Unit193> The more review the happier I am though.
<elfy> ok - so we'll sort out a call soon for that 
<Unit193> Right, I'm going to have to figure out a way *to* test it...
<elfy> Unit193: when I booted the utopic yesterday - installed the base system, but -core was not in the list to install?
<Unit193> You'd have to add my repo, and tasks won't be there yet.
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> so when we're at that state we'll be closer to getting people to test it I'd say
<Unit193> I need someone to merge it in, then, also maybe upload.  So, vote on it before testing happens? :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ochosi: just so you know - I have tested the xfpm business with the power buttons on whiskermenu and on the panel action button plugin
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> elfy: so for you it all works?
<ochosi> well i personally think there might be a few other quirks, maybe even a few more bugs in xfpm
<ochosi> after all, xfpm has been unmaintained for 2yrs or so
<ochosi> so i'm not too concerned about all those other things that ppl sneak into their test-feedback
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: trello api? maybe, but what's the point of using trello if we need to modify it to our will ;)
<ochosi> the point is it's already better than lp in some respects
<knome> furthermore, i'd first have to learn trello more to understand all the terms
<knome> but sure... i guess i can have a look at that
<ochosi> well, "learn trello"... :) it's really not all that complex
<ochosi> anyway, for the moment we're also fine as is
<knome> well i don't mean "learn trello", i mean actually understanding the technical terms in their api docs and how they are supposed to work
<knome> if we use the trello api, where are we pulling that stuff?
<elfy> ochosi: yea - all that works as expected for me 
<ochosi> knome: not sure what the plan there would be
<ochosi> the most interesting aspect would be support for updating bug-status from launchpa
<ochosi> d
<knome> right...
<ochosi> but that needs server-power or something
<knome> that sounds like maintaining work ;)
<ochosi> so writing bug-status to trello cards
<knome> it would also need the trello cards to be using a very simple and strict markup to keep the script small
<ochosi> well i guess the bugs would just have the LP link in the title/description
<ochosi> and the bugstatus could also be part of the description
<ochosi> so it's easy enough to change it with a script
<ochosi> then ppl can still use comments etc in the trello card and assign it to somebody etc
<knome> the issue i see here
<elfy> trouble with that as it stands - a link in a comment is clickable - a link in a card title is not
<knome> is that i think we'd have to cron LP to probe for the bug changes
<knome> or set up something else that gets notifications form LP
<knome> *from
<knome> i don't know if they offer an API for output
<knome> discuss it, write a spec what you'd like to do, and then i'll look at it :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, but i guess that's solveable somehow
<ochosi> e.g. paste the LP link again in the first comment
<ochosi> we should discuss that with the kubuntu folks too, if they also use trello such a lot
<elfy> I'm still not sure that this isn't trying to use a tool to do something that we've already got a suitable tool for tbh
<ochosi> yeah, it's about having everything in one place, not about not having a suitable tool
<elfy> mmm
<ochosi> brainwash: say, just so that i know, are you looking into the xdg-screensaver issue?
<ochosi> Noskcaj_: so you'll be around more regularly again now?
<Noskcaj_> ochosi, yep
<Noskcaj_> going to be a few day till i'm all set up though
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> wb
<Noskcaj_> thaks
<Noskcaj_> *thanks
<ochosi> elfy: say, does utopic already have gtk3.12?
<Unit193> !info libgtk-3-0 utopic
<ubottu> libgtk-3-0 (source: gtk+3.0): GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 3.10.8-0ubuntu2 (utopic), package size 1884 kB, installed size 6753 kB
<ochosi> well done :)
<ochosi> i'll try to remember that syntax then
<elfy> wut
<ochosi> elfy: i put down some notes in -features wrt gtk3.12 that might also be of interest to you
<ochosi> it's just something we should monitor
<ochosi> and maybe ask the ubuntu-desktop guys when they plan on landing 3.12
<elfy> ta
<ochosi> i'm not sure what they're gonna do with respect to those gnome "technologies" like headerbar and menus
<ochosi> they patched it all out in 14.04, would be important for us to know what the plan is in 14.10
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I watch the m/l's for them I'm sure 
<brainwash> ochosi: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745340
<ubottu> Debian bug 745340 in xdg-utils "/usr/bin/xdg-screensaver: "xdg-screensaver reset" does not reset DPMS timeout" [Important,Open]
<brainwash> I still don't have access to my test system with xubuntu trusty right now
<brainwash> so I did not do any experiments
<ochosi> brainwash: right, maybe link that bug-report to ours
 * ochosi takes off towards a BBQ
<ochosi> will be back later today/tonight
<elfy> bring back something nice for us :)
<knome> ochosi, did you know about harvest.ubuntu.com?
<knome> Mirv mentioned it before when we met, and now ubuntu women are working to improve it
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, but ignore it now since it's not as useful.
<pleia2> good day, my xfce loving friends
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<pleia2> saw trellobot mentioned, if we need to run one I'm happy to give a shell account for it
<pleia2> which reminds me, I need to reboot that VM soon so we can get our ram upgrade (hooray)
 * pleia2 adds planning that to todo list
<elfy> which is where we differ - I'd be planning to add that to the list
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> and then get all Mediterranean about it :)
<pleia2> planning is a thing, I need to define a maintenance window, inform all users..
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> consider this one informed :p
<Unit193> pleia2: I have it running now, deps are ruby+some gems if you're interested (it uses the cinch framework.)
<pleia2> Unit193: well, do you need a server spot to host it on, or are you ok with running it?
<pleia2> don't want to take it away from you if your server works :) just offering
<Unit193> pleia2: I think I'm good, unless someone else thinks otherwise.  Thanks though!
<MIke11123> Howdy,  I'm am having a problem getting some services started.   Initctl is giving me an error that com.ubuntu.Upstart doesn't exist 
<ochosi> knome: no, never heard of harvest
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna package up this plugin in a PPA? https://github.com/andrzej-r/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<ochosi> for this kind of stuff and xfdashboard we really should get some sort of extras PPA
<Unit193> I have one. :P
<elfy> so that'll be 3 then ochosi :)
<ochosi> yeah, that'd make 3
<ochosi> initially i hadn't thought of making a distinction between the dev-ppa and -staging
<ochosi> but the distinction between dev and extras/apps was always thought of
<elfy> yep
<elfy> certainly makes sense
<ochosi> not sure how many apps we'll really accumulate there
<ochosi> but who knows, it might not hurt to have the opportunity
<elfy> doesn't matter much I guess - just not having loads from different people will help :)
<Unit193> At this point, it's just updating xfdashboard which is easy enough, if it doesn't involve Ubuntu. :P
<Unit193> ochosi: See -> #xfce-dev
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> re
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i read the backlog
<ochosi> i'm not very surprised xfdashboard won't make it into debian
<Unit193> Mhmm, as I said, figured may as well ask.
<ochosi> yeah, absolutely
<ochosi> better to know for sure
<Unit193> Actually easy to talk to that time.  https://bitbucket.com/unit193/xfdashboard/
<ochosi> knome: was there a specific reason you asked about harvest? are you proposing it for xubuntu in some way?
<knome> well, i thought it might be a useful tool for figuring out possible pledges
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well, from my pov, i wouldn't personally even get involved in pledges
<knome> sure
<ochosi> as long as -team doesn't have funds
<ochosi> or a way of receiving funds
<knome> and i guess it's generally a nice thing
<knome> if you want to find bugs
<ochosi> crap, nobody ever noticed that indicator-power looks like crap with the normal elementary-xfce icons? (i.e. not elementary-xfce-dark/er)
<ochosi> ->double-crap
 * ochosi switches back to elementary-xfce-darker quickly and forgets what he has seen
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-18
<knome> Unit193, you need to ping pleia2 for the docs. subdomain update
<flexiondotorg> Is whom ever added xubuntu-core support to Xubuntu available for a chat?
<flexiondotorg> elfy, bluesabre, ali1234 Do you know who did that work?
<knome> why not ask the real question and find out
<knome> (others can likely answer some questions too)
<flexiondotorg> Was adding xubuntu-core support merely making changes to livecd-rootfs or something else?
<knome> it's a new metapackage which was then added as a task
<flexiondotorg> knome, So not an ISO then?
<flexiondotorg> knome, Is the idea you install the mini iso and then install then new meta package?
<knome> i don't know the actual ISO creation, but i would imagine setting that up is a simple thing after you have the task
<knome> installing via the minimal iso is the recommended way, yes
<ali1234> it's not an ISO yet
<knome> ali1234, well there are the community ISOs...
<ali1234> at least not officially
<flexiondotorg> knome ali1234 Unit193 It is an nice idea. I have have an ubuntu-mate-core seed/task/meta package from the outset. 
<flexiondotorg> knome ali1234 Unit193 So would also like to offer a 'basic' Ubuntu MATE just based on the core seed.
<flexiondotorg> Interested in working togather on this?
<knome> first, please stop pinging several people at a time consistently...
<knome> second, what is it you are looking for from the cooperation?
<knome> do you need help and pointers what you need to do in order to do the same thing as xubuntu did? or would you like some other feedback on your core from the team?
<ochosi> hmpf, awesome, obviously i dropped off irc during my absence...
<ochosi> anyway, hey everyone!
<pleia2> wb ochosi 
<ochosi> and anything you might have pinged me about: please repeat :)
<pleia2> knome: I don't need pinging, I just need to do it, it's on my list :x
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 :)
 * pleia2 off2conference now
<ochosi> hf pleia2 
<elfy> ochosi: welcome back :)
<ochosi> hi elfy :)
<ochosi> i'm reading up on 200+ emails, so it might take me a day more to weed through them all and reply where needed
<ochosi> feel free to ping me towards the end of the week if you feel i overlooked something
<ochosi> pleia2's report on the qa incentive was quite interesting+surprising
<ochosi> my subjective impression was much more positive
<ochosi> but the arguments make sense i guess
<Unit193> So what was the question then?
<elfy> anyone else getting problems rebooting and/or shutting down wily when booted with upstart?
<ali1234> what kind of problems?
<elfy> it doesn't - just loops back to login screen
<elfy> and at login screen - the restart/shutdown options are apparently disabled
<astraljava> elfy: Haven't tried, but can in a while.
<ali1234> elfy: someone reported that the other day but i could not reproduce
<ali1234> let me check my logs
<ali1234> wait, no, it was the opposite
<ali1234> "I&apos;ve noticed that when I go to shutdown my laptop, if I click cancel, it still shuts down."
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> wb ochosi
<Unit193> Heya, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<Unit193> Oh, Bug 1455689
<ubottu> bug 1455689 in germinate (Ubuntu) "Please support git in addition to bzr" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455689
<Unit193> So we could technically, soon. :D
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-19
<type3> Hello, I've been on this chat before and have expressed that I'd like to contribute
<type3> I was directed by a kind contributor to look at learning GTK
<cjbayliss> cool, did you learn GTK?
<elfy> ali1234: sorted -- purging and reinstalling systemd-sysv and upstart boots/reboots properly now
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-20
<Unit193> knome: US mirror! \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: the us mirror doesn't seem to have vivid images though
<Unit193> Yeah, noticed that bit...
<bluesabre> yay! awwwww
<bluesabre> Unit193: releasing an updated exo this week, re #d-xfce
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> nice
<Unit193> Niiice.
<ochosi> and hi and bye bluesabre :)
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, i wonder where we should put these sort of todo's down, the blueprints aren
<ochosi> t the right place
<ochosi> maybe we should put it on the WIP trello that sean put up
<Unit193> That'd work, and man I must be tired.
<ochosi> yeah, i have a hard time deciding whether it's late or early for you :p
<Unit193> This time, so do I.
<ochosi> ok, i put it down there
<ochosi> if you can prep the package, i guess bluesabre can upload it
<ochosi> but yeah, doesn't have to happen now that you're tired ;)
<Unit193> Well, I'd rather the merge than an SRU. :P
<ochosi> elfy: i still haven't caught up with all my emails, but i'm planning on replying to all xubuntu related ones tomorrow, incl the QA incentive one, what's your stance on that btw?
<Unit193> s/Backport/sru/
<ochosi> Unit193: totally agreed :)
 * ochosi rephrases
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> !MRE
<ubottu> Micro Release Exceptions are approved by the Ubuntu Technical Board on a per-package basis for packages that cannot be acceptably handled through the Stable Release Update (!sru) process. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions for more information.
<Unit193> ochosi: Hah, didn't mean you had to rename again. :P
<ochosi> sure sure ;)
<Unit193> But, that'll help.
<micahg> someone need an upload?
<Unit193> We're looking to merge xfwm .3 then MRE it to vivid.
<micahg> why MRE?
<micahg> oh, right, we have that :)
<micahg> well, do you want to do the merge?  is bluesabre doing it? should I do it?
<Unit193> I was going to later, unless you were good to.
<Unit193> Sean is at work.
<micahg> do we know if he started it
<micahg> do we have an MRE bug already?  it would be trivial for me to do both uploads
<Unit193> He hasn't been here for the discussion, so I highly doubt it since it's easy.
<micahg> Unit193: if you want to file the MRE bug, I can do the upload
<elfy> ochosi: my stance is "I spent hours for little gain" 
<lderan> will have to help out with QA more
<elfy> you helping out wouldn';t have made any difference to that particular thing :D
<lderan> maybe :P
<elfy> you could have done it - but I would have double checked it - so no gain :)
<lderan> fair enough
<lderan> time for me to flee work and get started on xubuntu'y dev work this evening \o/
<elfy> no slur intended - just one of those things that lead should have done is all 
<elfy> woohoo 
<ochosi> elfy: that's not how i see it, but anyway, i'll reply
<elfy> yep - it's all rather subjective anyway however we look at it :)
<Unit193> Hrm, is the QA trello restricted?
<elfy> public viewable
<elfy> only people on the 'list' can post
<Unit193> Hrm, OK.
<elfy> why? 
<Unit193> Weird, first time I clicked the link about the jenkins fail, I got a "You're logged out", but now it worked.
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> maybe you were doing that while I was editing it just a while back and there's an issue with it
<Unit193> micahg: Ah, ochosi assigned bluesabre to that part, at least.
 * micahg feels like he's missing some magical tracking place
<Unit193> No that was (mostly) all in here, just the note about new xfwm was in #xfce-dev.
<micahg> ok, well, please let me know if I need to merge/upload something
<ochosi> Unit193, micahg: actually, if either of you wanna work on xfwm4 .3, i totally approve
<ochosi> i'm sure sean will use the time to work on/release exo, so please don't hold back
<micahg> well, I have the merge ready to upload to wily...
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfwm4_4.12.3-1ubuntu1.dsc whoops..
<micahg> haha
<ochosi> :D
<micahg> Unit193: should I upload mine or are there other things that need to be fixeD?
<Unit193> micahg: None that I know of.
<ochosi> oh, also, there were some other releases recently (thunar, xfdesktop) that might be good to go to wily (if they aren't there already)
<micahg> ok
<ochosi> plus xfburn with gst1.0
<Unit193> micahg: I presume you have a link to https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html and the much less useful https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce.html ?
<micahg> nope
<micahg> nice :)
 * micahg will add more pins
<ochosi> Unit193: we should really link to that some place where people can find it
<micahg> could probably publish on Ubuntuwire
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> micahg: I stole it!
<micahg> what did you steal?
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/ppa-versions
<micahg> haha
<micahg> ok, well, let me know how I can help without stepping on toes
<Unit193> (And updated it so it'd fine more stuff.)
<Unit193> micahg: Hey, however you like at least works for me.
<micahg> there's this as well which is nice for Debian: http://pet.alioth.debian.org/
<Unit193> I use dmd.
<micahg> I can sync diskperf
<Unit193> I think a few of those could be, but I didn't check further since we can't access them. :3
<micahg> hrm?
<micahg> I think we can sync fsguard also
<Unit193> xfce4-mpc-plugin too?
<Unit193> xfpm, think we're going to drop the tray icon.
<micahg> I'll test that next
<micahg> yep
<micahg> Unit193: want credit for that
<Unit193> Sure! :D
<Unit193> I need to find a workable meeting for packageset. :3
<micahg> sync'd
<micahg> and credited
<micahg> I won't be at the Monday meeting
<Unit193> Right, we talked.  I can't either.
<micahg> ok, going back to other things now
<ochosi> sorry, was afk there for a bit
<ochosi> what got synced/updated/merged exactly now?
<ochosi> (and yay, always good to see you guys at work :))
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/wily-changes/2015-May/thread.html
<micahg> | tail -n4 :)
<ochosi> nice work :)
<micahg> sync's are relatively painless, especially when the test builds are quick
<ochosi> the MRE for xfwm4 to 15.04 is still up for grabs, right?
<micahg> I can do the upload (it's just a backport, but I need the bug number)
<ochosi> k, either bluesabre or someone else can file the bugreport tonight or i can work on that tomorrow and whoever does it can then ping you with the bug#
<micahg> sure
<ochosi> great, thanks a bunch micahg!
<micahg> I think i've done more uploads for wily that I have for utopic + vivid
<ochosi> :]
<micahg> ochosi: np, nice to be useful
<ochosi> really good to see you around more again, can't stress that enough
<ochosi> i also hope that means your job situation has loosened up a bit
<bluesabre> ping ping ping ping
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> hi everyone!
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.  Have fun filing the MRE! :D
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> bye everyone!
 * bluesabre makes his escape
<bluesabre> j/k
<bluesabre> MRE time, yay
<bluesabre> xfwm for vivid, alrighty
<Unit193> Suppose someone should pickup the new timeout and eyes plugins...
<bluesabre> Unit193: from what I can tell, this should be sufficient... do you agree? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11253336/
<Unit193> bluesabre: .2 is already in as a patch, IIRC.
<bluesabre> ah, even better
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-21
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfwm4/+bug/1457242
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1457242 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[MRE] xfwm4 4.12.3 for vivid" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> bluesabre: want me to upload?
<bluesabre> micahg: go ahead, wouldn't want to waste your time :)
<bluesabre> well, I have the merge ready to upload to wily...
<bluesabre> ^ your quote
<bluesabre> without quotes
 * bluesabre fails
<micahg> haha
<micahg> yes
<micahg> bluesabre: done
<bluesabre> micahg: thanks!
<bluesabre> long night
<bluesabre> https://smdavis.us/2015/05/20/lightdm-gtk-greeter-2-0-1-and-settings-1-2-0-releases/
<Unit193> Debian 785926
<ubottu> Debian bug 785926 in src:pidgin "pidgin: Please update to GStreamer 1.x" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/785926
<ochosi> sweet, nice work bluesabre and micahg :)
<elfy> bluesabre: is there a wily reason for xub-dev ppa stopping at vivid - or just nothing for it yet 
<ochosi> i think so far they've uploaded everything directly to wily
<ochosi> and it's too early to really have experimental stuff to test i guess
<elfy> makes sense this early I guess :)
<elfy> just wanted to double check I'm not missing something 
<elfy> and backlog is often just lots of words :D
<ochosi> hehe, yeah that sounds realistic :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: fwiw, i guess we gotta do something about that huge indicator-power icon. not pwetty.
<ochosi> bluesabre: in the greeter, that is.
<Unit193> elfy: Looks like you mean the daily ppa, I kicked off some builds so it won't 404 on you now.
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/
<Unit193> Yep.
<elfy> I've not actually got it here as it was empty for wily
<Unit193> Won't be soon.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Sure.
<Noskcaj> I'm finishing my midyear exams off today, So I should have some time to do xubuntu stuff again now. Is there anything in particular that needs doing?
<knome> at this point, i don't think too much; we're off to the slow start phase of a cycle :)
<micahg> Noskcaj: any merges where you were TIL I think would be good
<Logan> Noskcaj: all of the things
 * Unit193 uploads alllll sorts of crap through Logan!
<Noskcaj> Logan, I'll do my best
<Unit193> New packages all over!
<Logan> I AM NOT AN OPEN PROXY
<Unit193> Dang.
<Logan> I'm hungry
 * Logan eyes Unit193 
<Unit193> Too much bone, not enough meat.
<knome> Logan, maybe not open, but apparently Unit193 has the credentials..
<Logan> he knows the key to open me
<Logan> okay that sounds wrong
<Logan> Unit193: do you need anything uploaded?
<knome> Logan, you're totally right, it sounds so wrong..
<Unit193> Logan: Only one you won't tell me to Debianize is pending on barry.
<Unit193> lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.1-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Closes: Debian #785055)
<ubottu> Debian bug 785055 in lightdm-gtk-greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter: white screen and 100% CPU usage until I click a mouse button, with 2 monitors" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/785055
<Noskcaj> http://pastebin.com/PdsqVzf6 is mousepad ubuntu-->new
<Noskcaj> we can also sync xfce4 now, i think
<Noskcaj> I'll file bugs for both when i get home
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-22
<bluesabre> that should be a pretty A-OK release, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=d05b947844d4e0b29c9739b80f2ca0bcbf758a15 :)
<bluesabre> I might tackle it tomorrow morning, or Sunday night
<bluesabre> but soooooooooon
<bluesabre> ochosi: is that icon still an issue? I grabbed an old screenshot because I was lazy :)
<micahg> ooh
<bluesabre> gotta run for now, bbl
<micahg> good night
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, i guess then it might not be a problem :) good motivation for me to run a few tests with it though ;)
<bluesabre> elfy: like ochosi said, just not very many updates at this time :)
<elfy> yep :)
<bluesabre> though, if you're bored, I can go ahead and upload a new greeter and greeter-settings to wily repos this morning
<elfy> hah
<elfy> if you want to - and you need things looked at - as always just ask :)
<bluesabre> of course :)
<astraljava> "Logan | I AM NOT AN OPEN PROXY" -- Yeah, you just keep telling that to yourself, buddy.
<ochosi> bluesabre: feel free to copy them over to 15.04 as well
<ochosi> (haven't had time to set up a wily box yet)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll update the stable PPA sometime... won't be home again this weekend after the next 30 minutes
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> well in that case have a fun weekend! :)
<lderan> i'll be away this weekend as well :P
<bluesabre> actually, let's not speed package that package
<bluesabre> Unit193: when you get back, would you like to do some package update work?
<bluesabre> now that the greeter supports multiple configuration directories, debian has moved in that direction and we should likely do the same with the ubuntu and xubuntu configs
<bluesabre> since you requested that feature, you're the expert ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
<Unit193> And, that means migration work. :(
 * bluesabre wishes Unit193 luck
<elfy> so will I 
<bluesabre> technically, we might not have to migrate since the first config it checks is the old location
 * bluesabre shrugs
<elfy> so will I 
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> bluesabre: any mouse cursor size bugs you know about? 
<elfy> eg - if you've seen one mentioned - no need to dig 
<bluesabre> elfy: haven't heard of any
<elfy> mmk 
<elfy> seems some oddities in 14.04 
<bluesabre> oh fun
<elfy> indeed
<bluesabre> elfy: do you have an updated wily image? was wondering if whisker menu has the xubuntu icon or the whisker icon currently
<bluesabre> saw something odd last week, but lost track of time :)
<elfy> I'm all up to date - with ppa's and everything here
<bluesabre> cool
<elfy> looks like Xubuntu icon to me 
<elfy> I'll look at the daily 
<bluesabre> alrighty, I noticed it in the guest account, just in case
<elfy> okey doke - I'll check there 
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> heading out now... if you find anything off, ochosi can fix it
<bluesabre> >:D
<elfy> ha ha 
<elfy> have a good weekend 
<bluesabre> you too
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - daily appears to have whisker icon instead of Xubuntu one ... 
<elfy> 14.04 with cursor size change ... http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2ag8fhj&s=8#.VV8oGbwtj0o
<lderan> huge mode
<knome> gtk3 acting up?
<brainwash> is that a new bug in 14.04?
<ochosi> yeah, i've never touched the cursor size myself, maybe that never worked
<ochosi> oh, hm, seems to work just fine here
<ochosi> with 15.04
<ochosi> elfy: is anything else off in whiskermenu, apart from the icon?
<elfy> lderan: not the size - the fact the size isn't constant - changes small -> large 
<elfy> and yea seems fine in vivid/wily 
<lderan> bizarre
<elfy> ochosi: seems to just be the panel icon 
<elfy> brainwash: not sure - seems not if you can believe people ... 
<elfy> forum thread 
<micahg> elfy: I noticed the images are oversized now, I'll poke at that next week
<elfy> micahg: possibly libreoffice 
<ochosi> what size are we at now?
<micahg> 18M over I think
<elfy> 1.1 GB (1,058,013,184 bytes) 
<micahg> hrm, says only 1.5M over
<micahg> this is i386
<micahg> that's over
<micahg> what is the size set at?  I thought it was supposed to be 1GB
<elfy> not sure now that +LO/-gimp 
<micahg> well, what do we want it at :)
<micahg> if we want 1GB, I'll make it happen
<elfy> micahg: I'm not sure about that either ;) 
<ochosi> what parts of LO do we include atm?
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11285931/
<ochosi> right, that looks pretty ok to me
<ochosi> micahg: i think trying to stay below 1GB only makes sense if it doesn't mean too much (or constant) effort
<micahg> ok, I'll see next week what the story is and let you know, it should just be a one time push if it's possible
<ochosi> we've had that fight against windmills in the past, i'm ok with being a bit more relaxed about it
<ochosi> ok, that's ideal
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-23
<slickymaster> pleia2, can you please check http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/
<slickymaster> currently it's a dead link
<krytarik> slickymaster: There you go, copy-pasting here - [01:24:10] <krytarik> Also, since we are chatting already, I'd like to have automatic sync *exports* re-enabled again for the docs translation of Vivid and Wily - this way, when finally someone gets to putting the Vivid one on docs.xubuntu.org, we'll have French too :) , and the other one is for Unit193's build on his server.
<krytarik> [01:36:27] <krytarik> Generally, they all are sharing translations currently. So if we don't change any translation templates, automatic exports are the least thing we should do, to get the translated stuff into the respective branches.
<slickymaster> done krytarik 
<krytarik> bluesabre: For when you come back, and for anyone else interested, reg. the default settings of Whisker Menu: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/commit/?id=a920ed3b5851339f4cc6f3c872de312c07ee7140 - so in our case, /usr/share/xfce4/whiskermenu â /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/whiskermenu
<krytarik> And since I'm already sharing stuff, reg. LibreOffice - wrong base system, but oh well: http://paste.openstack.org/show/Wp5z3IweDFbAUEiloMPG/
<mikodo> Hi people. http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/#testing  Would, "Testing development versions and packages in Xubuntu as well as filing test reports" that is automatically forwarded for Packaging Testing, Image Testing, and Upgrade Testing, without any bug reporting still helpful?
<mikodo> ^^^ For future reference. I can't now.
<ochosi> how would the image or upgrade tests be automatically forwarded?
<mikodo> ochosi, I thought that was done with Ubuntu already. One runs the tests and then submits
<ochosi> yeah, but submitting your results still includes a bit of work you gotta do by hand
<ochosi> well, i dunno, i think ubuntu has some more automated methods
<mikodo> Oh. I will need to read more for Xubuntu then. Thx
<mikodo> As long as the "submitting the results by hand is easy enough, I should be able to do that.
<ochosi> yeah, it's not that hard, really
<mikodo> ochosi, Okay. Thanks.
<ochosi> but anyway, just get in touch with folks in here and they'll try to help
<ochosi> fyi, elfy is the QA lead
<mikodo> I know he is, I just "bug him" too much already it seems, with stupid questions on Ubuntu Forums ..
<mikodo> *forestpixie or whomever
<ochosi> i see
<mikodo> Again, thanks
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> new contributors to QA are definitely most welcome though ;)
<mikodo> ; )
<mikodo> :0
<mikodo> shat
<elfy> ochosi: ftr - not had any contact with him for ~2 years
<brainwash> ochosi: what can be done to resolve bug 1293305 ? report is still open, just close it? or forward it upstream (-> bluesabre)
<ubottu> bug 1293305 in exo (Ubuntu) "Several icon themes lack an "internet-mail" icon, causing it to go missing from the XFCE menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293305
<drc> pleia2: As requested.  What you do, send this guy a subscription of t-shirts? :)  http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-vivid.html
<knome> press page updated
<knome> pleia2, ^
<knome> pleia2, updated the products page with bigger hellotux logo as well as added them to the donations page
<pleia2> slickymaster: I know, I haven't updated it yet :( I'll try to get to it this weekend after I get home (packing up to check out of my hotel in vancouver now)
<pleia2> knome: thanks <3
<elfy> shame you can't comment on dedoimedo - I'd love to respond to " GIMP is there, too, but it should have been removed, and LibreOffice offered instead, given the choice between the two, rather than Abiword and Gnumeric."
<elfy> but hey-ho - he can like that in October ;)
<ali1234> mousepad is stuck in an endless loop again
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you need a merge bug for xfpm or can i just give you a debdiff?
<Noskcaj> First time i've used actual upload rights in about a year, way easier than finding a sponsor
#xubuntu-devel 2015-05-24
<elfy> Unit193: still not convinced at the plan for core iso testing ... we could add testcases to the current core tests, they'd stay static through the cycle not update daily
<knome> i would likely support what elfy just said
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hullo :)
<astraljava> o/
<elfy> hi astraljava 
 * alpacaherder peeks at channel briefly
<elfy> scared of shearing ... 
<elfy> bluesabre: ods defaulting to Parole here ... 
<elfy> or was 
<elfy> assuming local issue - daily is right
<pleia2> updated docs.xubuntu.org && /1504, lmk if it looks ok
<krytarik> pleia2: You dropped all the translations though. :D
<pleia2> krytarik: oh, the translations were supposed to be included?
<pleia2> (this is why I asked if they looked ok :))
<pleia2> we didn't have translations for previous releases, so I followed the standard upload C/ directory process
<krytarik> pleia2: They weren't included previously, and imo they should have been - but let's at least do it right from now on. :)
<pleia2> krytarik: ok, thanks
<krytarik> No one opposed to having them included when we brought that up earlier anyway.
<pleia2> it's really no problem, this is why I ask for folks to review after I upload
<krytarik> Yeah, sure.
<pleia2> you found a problem, so thank you :)
<pleia2> krytarik: refresh, better?
<krytarik> Yep. :D
<krytarik> Thanks.
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> from facebook yesterday: "The new version of xubuntu works amazingly. I'm using a not very powerful netbook and thank to your project I can work with it without any problem. Thank you very much!" :)
<astraljava> pleia2: It's true. I have a netbook with an Intel Atom 1.66GHz and just 1GB RAM, and I have no issues from the OS side.
<astraljava> Obviously with that I won't run anything huge, like LibreOffice, but even Chrome works relatively nicely.
<pleia2> I have a similiar one but mine has 2G of ram, libreoffice isn't so horrible
<astraljava> Yea I bet that extra gigabyte makes a huge difference there.
 * pleia2 nods
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-23
<flocculant> don't suppose many are - but getting parole seg faulting (both repo and daily ppa) in yakkety
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> or not - apparently it doesn't like a .m3u in home/wolf/.local/share/xfce4/Parole
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh yeah, parole hates m3u files under /home/wolf/.local/share/xfce4/Parole
<flocculant> bluesabre: lol 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-24
<flocculant> Unit193: so cursor bug - you linked to comment, but I can't see if there's a patch or anything - doesn't appear to be, so are we currently in 'Yup, there's a bug - no-one has a clue why' state? 
<flocculant> and evening all
<ochosi> evening everyone
<knome> hello
<ochosi> Unit193: make distcheck is fixed in clipman
<Unit193> flocculant: The statement was "Well it's marked fixed in Debian, lets make Unit193 tell us why!"  So I did, the last comment was basically that Corsac saw what we did, but the response he got was "file your own bug"
<Unit193> ochosi: Nice!
<Unit193> make[2]: *** No rule to make target 'xfce4-session-settings.glade', needed by 'distdir'.  Stop.   not sure if problem, or I'm missing a switch.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-25
<flocculant> Unit193: aah ok - I too read that pointless comment
<Unit193> Confirms Debian has it too.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> fix in 2022
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/hblhJR01MBP0v01hrbIR/
<Unit193> bluesabre: y u no https://code.launchpad.net/~glolol/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/reproducible-build/+merge/292095 ?
<flocculant> hi Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> The title for https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=819083 seemed right, but as I get a 500 error...
<ubottu> Debian bug 819083 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "xserver-xorg-video-intel: mouse pointer disappearing after vt switch" [Normal,Open]
<flocculant> Unit193: seems like we're sharing the same connection :p
<flocculant> why it'd only be that bug no idea - can see other ones
<flocculant> Unit193: seems merged with https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=821871
<ubottu> Debian bug 821871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "lightdm: Missing cursor and flicking after unlock with XFCE, clears after VT switch" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> Wow, still 500ing too.
<flocculant> mousing over the one you get 500 on - appears that 819083 was reported by corsac on the same day as "Please file your own bug.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> apparently 819083 was 500 on the 20th April :p
<Unit193> Exactly.
<flocculant> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818325
<ubottu> Debian bug 818325 in xserver-xorg-core "xserver-xorg-core: Missing the mouse pointer after locking the screen" [Important,Open]
<flocculant> another
<flocculant> aah that one is linked from the freedesktop bug
<flocculant> circlefest
<Unit193> sidi: We're tracking some things here: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/gtk3
<Unit193> I just distcheck'd xfce4-session, so I can play with that one now.
<Unit193> Oh meh, that one I ran into http://paste.openstack.org/show/hblhJR01MBP0v01hrbIR/, can likely "fix" without Werror. :P
<Unit193> flocculant: Debian #819350.  Also, want to play with an experimental xfce4-session? :P
<ubottu> Debian bug 819350 in bugs.debian.org "bugs.debian.org: 500 on attempt to view bug #819083" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/819350
<sidi> Unit193, oh good to know
<flocculant> Unit193: can do 
<flocculant> and nice find on that bug :p
<Unit193> I didn't, I asked.
<flocculant> that's still finding ;)
<flocculant> just about to wander off - but link me with the session thing and I'll look tomorrow morning :)
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: FWIW, http://paste.openstack.org/show/hblhJR01MBP0v01hrbIR/, for distcheck and http://paste.openstack.org/show/505453/ during compile of xfce4-session HEAD.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-26
<eric_the_idiot> Unit193: can you verify this branch https://github.com/EricKoegel/xfce4-session/tree/shadow fixes those issues?
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: Yep!  Though man, Werror is a killer.
<eric_the_idiot> Yeah, it is. Pretty sure I didn't put it there :)
<eric_the_idiot> Thanks for verifying 
<Unit193> If you really feel like it: main.c:91:16: error: unused variable 'lang' [-Werror=unused-variable]
<Unit193>    const gchar *lang;
<Unit193>                 ^
<Unit193> bluesabre: Your turn, https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-session_4.12.1+git01242c6-0ppa1+gtk3.dsc
<eric_the_idiot> lang is used on line 112-115
<Unit193> Pawning off on Sean, hit some more after that one.  Don't know why I hit it then, but it's 4am soo..
<flocculant> Unit193: still none the wiser about this experimental session :)
<flocculant> evening 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<flocculant> hi Unit193 
<flocculant> Unit193: so then this experimental xfce4 session - that you named then ignored :p
<flocculant> what's that all about and how :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Ah, right.  Ran into a few issues, so tried to pawn it off on Sean. :P
<Unit193> (Because he can submit patches if needed.)
<flocculant> aah ok :)
<flocculant> obviously when something shows up I'll give it a go 
<ochosi> evening all!
<ochosi> Unit193: just out of curiosity what were the problems?
<flocculant> hey ochosi - how's things 
<ochosi> flocculant: good good
<flocculant> good :)
<ochosi> and you?
<flocculant> yep - all good here 
<Unit193> ochosi: Last one was about a missing file for a rule, more minor ones before.
<Unit193> ochosi: If you know anything about packaging, linked the dsc.
<ochosi> ah right, i'll try to stay out of it then ;)
<flocculant> I can save you a seat for that ochosi :p
<Unit193> ...Well it has a tarball too!
<ochosi> well if it's a packaging problem a tarball still won't pull me in ;)
<Unit193> You sure it is?
<ochosi> i thought that was what you tried to say
<Unit193> Uploading those translation updates.
<Unit193> flocculant: As a heads-up, you'll have a new whisker tomorrow (and weather, cpufreq, -dict if you have 'em installed.)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-27
<flocculant> Unit193: I did - you were right :p
<Unit193> A couple are translation only, whisker has small changes, weather uses a new version of the same API.
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> evening lurkers
<pavlushka> evening flocculant !
<flocculant> hi pavlushka 
<flocculant> and hi cm2 
<pavlushka> flocculant: had your evening tea?
<flocculant> cm2: the 16.04.1 release will get whatever fixes for not-xubuntu and anything we can get in from xfce if there is anything
<flocculant> but as far as intel wireless things landing - we're not able to really do anything there, personally I'd like to see that back of the disappearing cursor on lock/suspend with intel more :)
<flocculant> but to be honest I'm not *completely* sure what .1 will have
<flocculant> the first point release is more (afaik) about making sure there is a sane and working upgrade from previous LTS
<flocculant> knome: re "ACTION: knome to initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML (week from now)" I assume that refers in truth to getting nominations? 
<cm2> flocculant: do you know what the wireless issue is about? bug in iwlwifi?
<flocculant> cm2: not really - not actually seen it or heard of it 
<flocculant> and people in *here* use intel and wireless and not heard them shouting either
<flocculant> like ochosi for instance 
<cm2> flocculant: ok; but it's always after a suspend.
<flocculant> yup
<cm2> flocculant: not in general. and restarting NM fixes it.
<cm2> so not the end of the world.
<flocculant> I did point skjones at something 
<flocculant> right - that's what I found
<cm2> i was looking through the power manager code, and there is a wait for a network manager dbus call.
<cm2> because it doesn't happen when issuing a "systemctl suspend"
<flocculant> given it's *buntu not just us - then that's definitely not something we'd be looking at specifically
<cm2> xfce4-power-manager
<cm2> flocculant: or do you mean you heard of the wireless thing from other *buntus?
<flocculant> www.debugpoint.com/2016/05/quick-fix-no-wireless-connection-after-sleep-suspend-in-ubuntu-16-04-xenial-xerus/ and the bugs appear to be *buntu
<flocculant> also not sure I saw that when checking out the cursor issue on my dead and dying lappy
<cm2> flocculant: speaking of which, the xna vs sna doesn't help me
<cm2> odd because it seems to work for everyone else
<flocculant> cm2: ok - it was just something I saw while looking through 6 million reports (it felt like) 
<flocculant> I think that the vt change is the best one generally
<cm2> flocculant: :) so i won't tell you about my flickering lightdm
<flocculant> and the sna issue seems to cause other problems too
<flocculant> cm2: you can - I'll ask for the bug number :p
<flocculant> and I'd love to see it tested with yak too 
<flocculant> just to check that
<cm2> flocculant: will do.
<flocculant> awesome
<cm2> flocculant: long weekend here, so maybe i'll have some time
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> same here 
<flocculant> cm2: you appear to be about a bit at the moment - I assume you know that our testing/qa team is always looking for people who're not just drive-by testers? 
<flocculant> (and I think I recognise from ubuntuforum - or might be coincidence of course)
<cm2> flocculant: yes i know. 
<cm2> i'm a dev. thinking that maybe i should help with code?
<flocculant> I'm sure that bluesabre and Unit193 would love to know that and have some help :)
<flocculant> maybe send a mail to the dev list offering - they're not about till later in the *day*
<flocculant> not sure what tz you are
<cm2> flocculant: ok; i've been putting this off for like 5 years it seems like ;)
<cm2> all the while enjoying my xubuntu experience
<flocculant> and frankly more dev help trumps testing - unless you're not testing your code and/or fixes :p
<flocculant> cm2: funnily enough I've been about more or less as long as you (gnome2/unity change)
<cm2> flocculant: :)
<cm2> although dont remind me. that was painful at first.
<flocculant> yup
<cm2> xubuntu has come a long way!!
<flocculant> it certainly has :)
<cm2> flocculant: btw, the thunar crashing thing, was it whilst renaming files?
<flocculant> cm2: seems so - I can do that if I keep at it for a while
<flocculant> but general re-naming I don't see it
<cm2> flocculant: i already saw a patch for it.
<flocculant> knome was seeing it often
<flocculant> cm2: we applied a couple/few patches - which is what we have in yak ppa afaik
<cm2> flocculant: ah ok. i'm looking at it now, g_file_monitor and friends.
<flocculant> if that's the case ( bluesabre Unit193 ) ^^ then if we SRU it needs to be in yak? 
<cm2> flocculant: it might be in it already
<flocculant> cm2: seems that thunar activity in xfce is 'low'
<cm2> flocculant: yes, but mostly it's because it is stable.
<flocculant> cm2: I think we do have those patches - but I got lost between what we found pre-release and now
<flocculant> and it's harder still because I have to manically rename things to crash it
<cm2> flocculant: yeah, i've been trying to crash it but to no avail :)
<flocculant> well that's good :)
<cm2> flocculant: he he he yes.
<flocculant> ok - evening time - disappearing for a while - be back later
<cm2> flocculant: have fun
<flocculant> well ... mostly food needed :p
<cm2> :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome flocculant
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<knome> not too shabby
<flocculant> as good as expected :)
<bluesabre> better than I hoped :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<Unit193> bluesabre!
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> I'll start catching up from all the pings this week soon
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> I dumped off a packaging thing for you. :P
<knome> Unit193 and the big dumb
<knome> ...i mean dump
<knome> (;
<Unit193> knome haates me again. :'(
<knome> noooo
<knome> me loves you
<knome> :D
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> KEEP BACK!
<knome> ahahah
<flocculant> hah
<bluesabre> yeah, saw that, decided to keep it on the backburner til I made it to the weekend :D
<Unit193> Ahaha. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: I got the others up!  Well, kind of ignored panel plugins because meh.  Xfconf might be fixed though.
<bluesabre> saw that too, good news from aliov
<flocculant> that's all great - personally I'd love to know what's going to happen about intel lock cursor fail :p
<Unit193> Nothing I can do, and you certainly don't want me to try patching core things like that...
<flocculant> Unit193: wfm
<flocculant> or rather I've not got the problem so go for it :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: I don't really know what to do with that, not touching the kernel, probably shouldn't change intel defaults for everybody
<flocculant> Unit193: or are you talking about interesting stuff :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: I agree with that :)
<Unit193> that == intel drivers.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm presuming http://paste.openstack.org/show/505960/ is of no importance.
<Unit193> flocculant: Want to test xfconf before I copy it into xubuntu-dev/xfce4-gtk3? :P
<Unit193> (I hit http://paste.openstack.org/show/505957/ too, but that's actually of no interest to us anyway.)
<flocculant> Unit193: not right now ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks important
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> Well, gtk/gnome stuff/etc always output warnings all over, so wasn't a surprise and the desktop worked. :P
<bluesabre> fair enough :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-05-29
<Unit193> Also, sorry.  Saw somehow I missed uploading xfdashy to extras. 0_o
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you add the new plugins to the wiki?
<ochosi> Unit193: only to the xfce roadmap page so far
<Unit193> xfconf and -notifyd will stick in my staging repo until other things (greybird, -panel, -settings) grow support.
<ochosi> greybird should have it soon and if i understood ali correctly the panel and settings *should* work
<Unit193> They certainly seem to, aye.
<Unit193> Also will wait for plugging in to work, I think.  But yeah, sounds like it's all basically here.
<ochosi> i'll try to fix greybird tonight
<Unit193> No rush, still have to get it in PPA or uploaded. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-22
<bluesabre> Unit193: very nice :D
<bluesabre> maybe I'll work on hacking mpris into it next
<Unit193> Yer alive!  I poked before but you just made me sad.
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: which poke?
<Unit193> bluesabre: greeter-settings
<bluesabre> that one
<bluesabre> I still have those tabs open, so yay
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> krytarik would like to comment about one of them.
<Unit193> I think I poked you otherwise too...
<krytarik> I don't, but in fact I think I did already earlier.
<bluesabre> Seem to have lost that one
<krytarik> And by earlier I mean looooong ago. :P
<Unit193> krytarik: I think I'd use 'case' there..
<Unit193> krytarik: No, gtk-greeter about missing an arg.
<Unit193> Eg, --socket foo
<krytarik> Yes.
<Unit193> krytarik: If we don't make a suggestion soon, we'll lose him again.
<bluesabre> Go for it
<bluesabre> an MP would be even better :D
<Unit193> Hmm...Best to just merge the one from Debian then. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: no problem, let me know if there is anything else I should review... I know I have two SRUs to get started on soon
<Unit193> Which ones?
<bluesabre> weather plugin and thunar... I think
<Unit193> bluesabre: TBH, I think it makes more sense to trim the pkexec wrapper down to just like the synaptic one..
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to paste that? I don't use synaptic :D
<Unit193> #!/bin/sh
<Unit193> pkexec "/usr/sbin/synaptic" "$@"
<Unit193> bluesabre: TBH, I don't either.
<bluesabre> Unit193: That's something a synaptic user would say
<Unit193> s/synaptic/apt/ :D
<Unit193> There's only one thing it can do that apt can't now.
<bluesabre> Which is?
<Unit193> List by origin.
<bluesabre> Handy
<Unit193> Waaaait a minute...
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/Ukq7eExmIXP4BZamv4jN/ soo, left the actual ui file unpatched and only hit the pot?
<Unit193> (proposal submitted.)
<flocculant> Unit193: re pkexec I assume you mean change the mousepad thunar ones to look the same? 
<Unit193> No.
<flocculant> what do you mean then?
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/view/head:/bin/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings-pkexec
<flocculant> oh right - ok :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, and fixed it in other spots too
<Unit193> Hrm, I thought I saw those, then I forgot 'em. :(
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-23
<bluesabre> Quite couple of days
<Unit193> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-24
<flocculant> bluesabre: what's the status on those sru's ? I'm assuming manana at the moment :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: going to get those rolling tonight
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: also look forward to testing parole not clearing global history
<flocculant> knome pleia2 could I have tweets and g+1 thingummys for https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2017-May/011512.html pretty please :)
<knome> tweeted
<flocculant> cheers :)
<genii> mmm gummys
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-13-0-released-tp49314.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<waltito> Hello?? there is life here??
<aaronraimist> waltito: there is
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-25
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice!
<bluesabre> Slowly but surely
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/slick-greeter_1.0.3-1.html
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have you looked into how xfce4-indicator-plugin now works?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I have not, why do you ask?
<Unit193> I had to recently, it's...Hardcoded to only work with indicator-application, indicator-bluetooth, indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard, indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-printers, indicator-session, and indicator-sound.  While that lists most/all in the repo, none external and hardcoding isn't very future proof. :/
<Unit193> s@all/most@some@
<bluesabre> oh wow
<Unit193> /usr/lib/systemd/user/xfce4-indicator-plugin.target
<Unit193> (apt-cache show indicator-<tab><tab><tab>)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume you've noticed the artica-* stuff?
<bluesabre> artica?
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ayatana-ido_0.4.0-1.html, https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libayatana-indicator_0.6.0-1.html, https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/libayatana-appindicator_0.5.0-1.html
<bluesabre> hmmm
<Unit193> This is just FYI, no action needed.
<Unit193> Sadly they're not drop-in, you have to change headers, but otherwise...
<bluesabre> Right, interesting to see some movement though
<Unit193> I'd, err, pasted the NEW links in -ot. :P
<Unit193> Arctica is...Somewhat MATE related, strips out the Ubuntu/Canonical specific bits, but in theory should work for xfce4-indicator-plugin too.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-26
<Unit193> There's also the slick-greeter that entered NEW, and will be arctica-greeter too.  (slick is unrelated to the arctica project.)
<bluesabre> Another couple of things to keep my eyes on :)
<Unit193> 'sunweaver' == Mike, which is a major MATE maintainer in Debian.  Sure, I certainly plan to.
<Unit193> bluesabre: As usual, I plan to track that, so I can pass along any information you want.
<bluesabre> Much appreciated.  :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for starting the sru ball off btw :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: np
<akxwi-dave> When will the clear global history fix be in the daily iso?
<akxwi-dave> for parole
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: planning a parole release this weekend, so Monday/Tuesday
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-27
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume you've no issues with us not doing alpha 1 or 2 again?
<bluesabre> flocculant: no issues here
<flocculant> bluesabre: good 
<flocculant> apart from anything a1 is next week and no-one from a flavour has started the ball rolling yet :D
<bluesabre> :D
<tracker9> exit
<tracker9> quiet
<tracker9> bye
<bluesabre> IRC is hard.
<flocculant> heh
<PaulW2U> flocculant, akxwi-dave: Sorry, not much more from me for a while thanks to that ISP whose frontman sports a beard and a woolly jumper. Had hoped to be more involved this cycle. IRC always on via WeeChat and VPS. Still 100% Xubuntu locally. Will do what little I can using 3 and EE. C'est la vie.  :(
<flocculant> oh my - good luck :(
#xubuntu-devel 2017-05-28
<akxwi-dave> bluesabre:  cheers will keep an eye out for that.
<akxwi-dave> PaulW2U: ouch.. good luck with that
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.1.92 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-1-92-released-tp49318.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.1.92.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-1-92-1-released-tp49319.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<knome> !team | next community meeting scheduled - check mailing list
<ubottu> next community meeting scheduled - check mailing list: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<pleia2> knome: do we have a simple way to tell people how to run a mirror for us/ubuntu? (looking at the mail from the guy in france)
<knome> pleia2, not for us, but it's the same as the usual ubuntu stuff + carry xubuntu
<knome> pleia2, for me it's good enough if they are on the official mirrors list on LP and i can confirm they have the xubuntu ISOs
<knome> (or seem like they have - i don't actually download them)
<pleia2> ok cool, I'll reply to this mail and point them to the wiki page about it then
<knome> thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-21
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.2.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-2-2-0-released-tp51051.html (by Graeme Gott)
<Unit193> xfce4-session 4.13.0-1 in exp.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-22
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894481#10 for anyone following along/that has interest.
<ubottu> Debian bug 894481 in numlockx "numlockx: `laptop-detect` has moved from /usr/sbin to /usr/bin" [Normal,Open]
<krytarik> -__-
<Unit193> Hmm?
<krytarik> 2 months later..
<Unit193> Aha!  Well that won't be an issue much longer, either he uploads or in a few days I will.
<Unit193> Already got someone ready to sponsor my nmu.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i know, it still feels like a lot when reading it all :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/user/en_GB/index.html is down/doesn't exist
<slickymasterWork> will you please check it?
<slickymasterWork> https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/user/fr/index.html the same
<knome> hmm..
<willem> https://latenightlinux.com/late-night-linux-extra-episode-02/
<willem> (sorry, wanted that to go into off topic)
<flocculant> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/official-policy-for-adding-daemons-to-desktop-common/6086
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=bionic I deplox.
<ochosi> nice!
<Unit193> ochosi: It pretty much mirrors mine, sans the nicer -terminal. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-23
<mrpandey> I installed Xubuntu 18.04 just yesterday (22 May). I removed the default media player Parole and installed MPV and Quod Libet. None of them is showing up in drop down of Xfce4 Pulseaudio Plugin. Parole did show up there (before I removed it). After removing it and installing the other two, the list of Known Media Players in properties of Pulseautio plugin is empty. Can anyone help me out here?
<flocculant> !team | qa landing page at x.org is now updated
<ubottu> qa landing page at x.org is now updated: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> and published https://xubuntu.org/news/new-wiki-pages-for-testers/
<flocculant> pleia2 knome - can we have some twittering g+ love for the new stuff - done fb
<pleia2> sure
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
<pleia2> all done :)
<flocculant> pleia2: you're awesome sauce
<pleia2> <3
<knome> thanks pleia2 
<flocculant> I assume pleia2 did g+ - can;t see a tweet
<willem> I saw a tweet
<flocculant> ok - perhaps because no account
<willem> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/999353212963438592
<flocculant> ta
<krytarik> Curious, I also don't see it on the board either way yet. :3
<krytarik> And in this context noticed, on the website the Google+ link should be 'https://plus.google.com/+xubuntu' (otherwise one gets redirected to there anyway), and the Facebook one should have 'https:' on it (same)
<krytarik> ..Oh there, down the line...
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-May/004489.html  oh hey, we should stop using bzr.
<flocculant> I never see Xubuntu posts showing up Planet Ubuntu via the feedreader I use - but I see all the other flavour stuff
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~planet-ubuntu/config/main/view/head:/config.ini#L73 hmm.
<flocculant> yea - I knew that was right at some point
<tracker8> Does anyone figured out how to "Screen Tearing Free" on XFWM 4.13? I'm on Ubuntu 18.04 with XFWM 4.13 from QA Experimental PPA and it still doesn't work =(
<tracker8> I'm getting these errors:
<tracker8> (xfwm4:2750): xfwm4-WARNING **: 18:27:30.953: GL not available (xfwm4:2750): xfwm4-WARNING **: 18:27:31.011: Dismissing XPresent as unusable, error 3 for request 148
<Unit193> Thus, not using xpresent.
<tracker8> I'm starting to think the problem is with Ubuntu's xpresent package
<tracker8> Unit193: are you using this version too "xfwm4 version 4.13.0git.7d9e6ced (revision 7d9e6ced)"?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<tracker8> Unit193: does it work for you?
<Unit193> (xfwm4:1417): xfwm4-WARNING **: 20:13:27.447: GL not available
<Unit193> (xfwm4:1417): xfwm4-WARNING **: 20:13:31.002: Dismissing XPresent as unusable, error 3 for request 148
<Unit193> But xfwm works, so I don't complain.  Netbook it has a couple more quirks, but still "works".  Been thinking about downgrading back to the version from the repo there.
<Unit193> tracker8: My card is a bit old at this point, though.
<tracker8> Unit193: so you have the same problem as here. You don't have screen tearing probably because you have a good screen.
<tracker8> I think the problem is with Ubuntu package.
<Unit193> I think you overestimate my hardware.
<Unit193> tracker8: Also, that's the latest upstream, and git didn't really have anything else.  Also, there's not really any strange build options in use.
<tracker8> Unit193: https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2017-June/053874.html
<tracker8> Unit193: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13257
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13257 in General "Screen is not updated with the Present extension" [Normal,Resolved: worksforme]
<tracker8> it seems to be a problem with Ubuntu's XPresent
<tracker8> Mate also implemented DRI3 on 1.20, and it seems some users cat get the "screen tearing free" on Ubuntu Mate
<tracker8> Unit193: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13693
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13693 in General "Screen tearing Xfwm 4.13" [Normal,New]
<tracker8> Well, I hope someone has figured out how to makeXFWM 4.13 screen tearing free to work on Ubuntu =). I will read the logs latter
<tracker8> Byt
<Unit193> You could try rebuilding both, I guess...But not sure I'd expect much.
<sublevel> hi channel,  I saw the blogpost from march saying more testers needed and thought I'd give it a go. getting 404 error on bionic daily amd64 download link here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/384/builds/173056/downloads
<knome> sublevel, bionic, or 18.04, is released already. we've moved onto "cosmic" (18.10) testing...
<knome> but it's really really early for that now
<sublevel> ah, thanks,  yes my next question was going to be 'does that even need testing'
<sublevel> as I saw cosmic was the one linked from https://wiki.xubuntu.org/qa:installing
<knome> i mean it doesn't hurt, but it's more useful a bit later in the cycle :)
<knome> you'll want to talk to flocculant or akxwi-dave for details
<knome> sublevel, ^
<sublevel> I wondered if testing on 18.04 was useful for 18.04.1,    and assumed if testing wasn't required then the dailies wouldn't be listed there on iso.qa.ubuntu.com with test instructions
<sublevel> but I'm just learning my way around all this stuff :) 
<knome> well yes it's not totally useless
<sublevel> nicks noted, thanks
<knome> upgrade testing from 16.04 to 18.04(.1) is useful at this point as well
<knome> but also sooo much more useful if you do it on real hardware/system
<knome> but you can only do it once really unless you back up
<sublevel> I could install 16.04 and try an upgrade,  on bare metal
<knome> yeah, the thing is that then it'd be an upgrade from a "clean" 16.04
<sublevel> right, yes
<knome> but i'd still say valuable
<sublevel> I'm on lubuntu at the moment, don't have a previous xubuntu install
<knome> lubuntu needs help too :)
<sublevel> good point, I could test 16.04 -> 18.04 upgrade for them
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-24
<knome> flocculant, i made some minor (visual) edits to the post
<knome> flocculant, the quotes are really nice at the end :)
<knome> anyway, bbl/bbabl...
<willem> hi all. I was doing some test cases in 18.10; I see something which seems not quite right when switching from one workspace to another and the wallpaper (not) changing with that switch. What's the application to report that against?
<knome> willem, i guess xfdesktop
<willem> Knome, Thanks will do that.
<flocculant> knome: thanks for edits - and yea I liked them - even if neither really wanted to do them ;)
<flocculant> knome: also - nice boxes - I'll try and remember where I see those to copy the syntax :)
 * flocculant obviously thanked before looking there ...
<flocculant> ochosi: this is odd - panel crashes when I remove workspace switcher - tried some random other plugins - they're fine
<kafran> bluesabre: did you deal with the XFWM 4.13 screen tearing: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/09/29/%23xubuntu-devel.html ?
<bluesabre> kafran: I don't maintain XFWM, so I have not :)
<kafran> bluesabre: I asked as a personal issue =)
<kafran> bluesabre: I think you have screen tearing too, no?
<kafran> bluesabre: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/09/29/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<kafran> What I don't understand is XFWM 4.13 supports GL or XPresent. Apparently XPresent has a problem with Ubuntu's package: https://github.com/mate-desktop/marco/pull/350
<kafran> but why isn't GL working either? =/
<kafran> xfwm4 --replace gives me (xfwm4:5240): xfwm4-WARNING **: 17:06:30.383: GL not available
<bluesabre> kafran: Gotcha. Yeah, no luck in eliminating screen tearing so far.
<kafran> bluesabre: what's your video driver?
<kafran> I think this is a problem affecting Ubuntu 64bits only.
 * genii slides krytarik an extra-large coffee
 * krytarik gluuurks
<genii> :)
<genii> The dbgsym thing is bizarre.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-25
<Unit193> bluesabre: I need to backport dh-autoreconf for the Xfce builds.  Directly into a PPA or into ppa:unit193/staging and set that as a build-dep?
<Unit193> Because of the added support for Xfce stuff, that is.
<sublevel> installing 18.04 onto a laptop, if there's anything that'd be useful to test point me to it
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-26
<Spass> sublevel, I think they're already testing 18.10 at this point, but probably some testing on 18.04 would be useful too, if you're willing to install some potentially unstable packages from the 'devel' PPAs
<Spass> but I'm not from the Xubuntu Team, so you may want to wait a bit for a more official answer
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to add it directly to the PPA
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<Unit193> Morning red, blue.
<Unit193> Where's green?
<flocculant> a bit seasick perhaps
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<bluesabre> howdy orangered
 * flocculant feels confused now, hexchat colours different than irssi :p
<bluesabre> oh, if going by irc
<bluesabre> flocculant is red, Unit193 is purple
<knome> you're all just one gray mass...
<Unit193> What if I don't want to be purple?
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> Unit193: irccloud doesn't let me change only your color
<bluesabre> Unit193: anything else you think I should add or change here? https://wiki.bluesabre.org/development/git-migrations
<flocculant> thanks knome and ochosi for what you've done while council'ing for us :)
<bluesabre> :)
<GridCube> :D yes thanks!
<knome> flocculant, no problem :)
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Only thing I can think of is the extra metadata.
<bluesabre> Unit193: what flags should be added for that?
<Unit193> There isn't one, the data is lost.
<Unit193> (Unless you use https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~germar/bzr-fastimport/bzr-fastimport/revision/361)
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> Well, that's lovely
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Juuuust giving you the full information.  Also make sure to use Ubuntu when you do it, and not Debian. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> https://ubuntudiff.debian.net/q/package/bzr-fastimport
<Unit193> Right, on to the backports.
<bluesabre> These things make me feel more justified in moving everything to git
<bluesabre> we're about 90% of the way to having the seed in git and everything that cares about that updated
<Unit193> Well, bzr-fastimport is fixed in Ubuntu at least, but the py3 fork has that package integrated so... Don't use brz.
<Unit193> (For full context: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/bzr-fastimport/deletion-fixes/+merge/258178)
<knome> Unit193, did you find out if the submodule stuff was possible with LP?
<Unit193> I'd think it would be.
<knome> want to help me set it up at some point?
<bluesabre> going to to enjoying my weekend for a while, back on and off throughout the next couple days
<knome> hf bluesabre 
<Unit193> knome: I've never really done submodules, well apart from cloning and using them as a client.
<knome> right
#xubuntu-devel 2018-05-27
<flocculant> am I confused (more than generally that is ... ) VSZ is virtual memory I thought - not sure why anything would think it could have 114.5GiB of that https://i.imgur.com/oEmr10T.png
<willem> I'm seeing something I don't understand when doing sudo apt update/upgrade from terminal: https://imgur.com/a/PirMU0k Is this something that needs to be reported? If so where?
<willem> translation of the messages: Target <..> has been configured several times in <..>
<sublevel> willem: you somehow have ended up with duplicate lines in /etc/apt/sources.list
<sublevel> I haven't seen it before but can replicate it here on lubuntu
<sublevel> ...if I make a duplicate line on purpose
<sublevel> ah,  maybe not exact duplicates,  could be you you have two entries that list the same packages.  look at lines 5, 16 and 52 anyway.
<sublevel> (I'm new to the channel, can't answer if/where you should report)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-20
<Unit193> I remembered, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages is supposed to be only devel release, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages was for past.
<Unit193> Past == current, lts.
<Unit193> Oh well.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> working on packaging -session now
<Unit193> I had a note about that one...
<Unit193> Oh yes!  Please drop the duplicate line.
<Unit193>  debian/55xfce4-session etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<Unit193>  debian/defaults.list etc/xfce4/
<Unit193> +debian/55xfce4-session etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<bluesabre> Will do
<Unit193> (I was looking http://deriv.debian.net/Ubuntu/patches/x/xfce4-session/xfce4-session_4.12.1-6_xfce4-session_4.12.1-6ubuntu1.debian.patch)
<Unit193> If I may, now might be a handy time to  light-locker | xfce4-screensaver | xscreensaver  :>
 * Unit193 shuts it, now.
<bluesabre> Unit193: all good suggestions :)
<bluesabre> I think I have the merge/new release/cleanup package ready... going to test before sending off to eoan
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Drop session splash property, no longer available as of xfce4-session 4.13.2 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=4e99049190d936f45ac5faa80804d0b75f1ef920 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, sorry I never got around to putting it into a good list, http://paste.openstack.org/show/0LjyD2RzIoKjsz7k2V31 is all I have so far.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 19.10 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=d930fd068580eb50baeebe14664751eab79863df (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Unit193: it doesn't get said enough, but thanks for all the help you give with packaging (and many other things)... it keeps everything running smoothly :)
<Unit193> Hey, you do work upstream, I just gotta make sure I do something!  I'm glad I can help.
<Unit193> Gah, xfce4-panel uses AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR not AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIRS. :/
<bluesabre> Uploaded a new xfce4-session, xubuntu-default-settings, and xubuntu-artwork to eoan. Time for bed!
<ochosi> Unit193: indeed, agreed with bluesabre - thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> if you guys have patches for session we should/could upstream lemme know
<Unit193> ochosi: Not that you didn't already know, but confirmed that the new panel fixes my issue. \o/
<ochosi> noice :)
<ochosi> regarding AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIRS please submit a patch if you can
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/?id=08ad6d120129f10e2c94a151962981e6e30509f8
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: Xfce 4.14pre1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-Xfce-4-14pre1-released-tp53656.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<ochosi> ok pushed
<ochosi> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=52fc8b90713590f90a2811e0ee15e777734054b3
<Unit193> Thanks!
<Unit193> Now to find the rest of them. :/
<ochosi> :)
<Unit193> Going to push xfconf with gsettings package available to experimental, I think.
<Unit193> (It can't harm anything, if nothing else then remove the package. :P)
<bluesabre> huh https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/xfwm4
<bluesabre> One thing I see is that we should likely enable colord support in the -settings build
<bluesabre> not sure what other new flags and optional features we need to enable across the board
<k3dar7> hi, can please anyone say me if Xfce 4.14pre will be avaiable in PPA also for 18.04? (=latest LTS) thx :-)
<k3dar7>  hi, can please anyone say me if Xfce 4.14pre will be avaiable in PPA also for 18.04? (=latest LTS) thx :-)
<Unit193> Not really, 'Long Term Support' and the concept of highly stable release doesn't exactly mix well with a pre-release desktop.
<Unit193> More specifically: Thunar in 18.04 is GTK2, if you push the GTK3 one to a PPA any plugins built for the former will no longer function, meaning every one in the archive.
<k3dar7> Unit193: thx for answer, but from xubuntu-dev i already have in 18.04 most Xfce 4.12/13 packages in GTk3, Thunar 1.8.4 is i think too GTk3:
<k3dar7> ldd `which thunar` | grep -i gtk
<k3dar7> 	libgtk-3.so.0 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgtk-3.so.0 (0x00007f178b6e0000)
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=bionic not from ours.
<k3dar7> ok, now is not in ours repository, but sure i intall it from it before ;-) timestamp of thunar 20190306-0037, package version 1.8.4-1~18.04
<k3dar7> and in /usr/share/doc/thunar/changelog.Debian.gz i see your nick ;-)  -- Unit 193 <unit193@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 05 Mar 2019 18:37:02 -0500
<k3dar7> btw: sorry, timestamp is in CET
<Unit193> Only other place I push things is my own https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages, I may have backported it to experimental during some testing or something, but it shouldn't have been in March..Huh.
<k3dar7> yes, i have set all ours ppa's ;-)
<k3dar7> btw: now i manually build from source thunar-xfce-4.14pre1.tar.gz and run ok
<k3dar7> in apt log i only see installed thunar_1.8.4-1~18.04_amd64.deb, but not from what ppa, sure not from your persolal, strange :-)
<k3dar7> anyway, sure you not add 18.04 as target for build? to experimanetal xubuntu-dev ppa?
<Unit193> I mean if Sean tells me to then sure, but I dislike long commitments, so I try to keep the experimental desktop only on the latest release.
<Unit193> Hrm, most everything is already there, so if folks are fine with breakage...
<k3dar7> i sure fine with total breakage of me system, not problem ;-) as i say, i have (>=half year) enabled all ours ppa for latest Xfce package installed, and none problem, only before some month i miss some package, and someone make build after i ask, also i test reborn thunar-shares-plugin from source and same people add after this to ppa :-)
<k3dar7> if is not possible add build for 18.04 then i build all xfce packages from git self, but is sure better have it from ppa :)
<Unit193> Yeah I remember thunar-shares-plugin, that was me too.  I keep it in extras now.
<k3dar7> oh, it's you, i'm sorry i forgot :-)
<Unit193> Meh, nicks are hard, I don't mind that you forgot.
<Unit193> Hrm, how many gtk2 plugins are there for the panel in bionic..
<Unit193> A lot, OK maybe not that one.
<k3dar7> i don't know :-) but xfce4-panel i have 4.13.3-1ubuntu1~18.04 a this is already GTk3 and all plugins (i use) work wine :-)
<Unit193> ..OK, now where did you get *that*?
<k3dar7> all from xubuntu-dev ppa's ;-)
<k3dar7> is on me primary/alldays notebook where i run update every day, then if someone put package in experimental ppa, i have updated :) if next day is removed i don't know but package ofcourse keep installed :)
<Unit193> ...Perhaps run  LANG=C apt list | grep ed,loc  ?
<k3dar7> https://pastebin.com/raw/qSmszUZC
<k3dar7> from "dpkg -l | grep -i xfce"
<Unit193> Actually, the command I wrote should list all the packages that can no longer be fetched.
<k3dar7> i know, i make list before you write :-) here is what you ask: https://pastebin.com/raw/piMYKsaF
<k3dar7> (with removed non-xfce packages)
<Unit193> ...Huh, that's odd.
<k3dar7> desktop i have superstable with this :-)
<k3dar7> btw: now i try manualy make all this packages https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/xfce_4.14pre1
<k3dar7> and see if is buildable on 18.04...
<Unit193> Well, I'm actually pulling thunar back to 18.04 after all, just not the panel.
<k3dar7> thanks :-) any chance you pulling back for 18.04 also others 4.14pre1 packages? :)
<k3dar7> in me simply test, xfce4-panel is not build, but i hope because have bad/older -dev packages?
<Unit193> Everything except the panel is, so far.
<k3dar7> ah, your best :-)
<Unit193> (xfce4-panel would just require too many rebuilds, and isn't like how thunar handles it.)
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, so remember how I said no backporting to Bionic?  Well looks like I lied, only xfce4-panel didn't make it.
<k3dar7> Unit193: i reload desktop after upgrade and at first look, work fine :-) thanks again
<k3dar7> Unit193: can you please also add xfce4-terminal and xfdesktop4?
<Unit193> Terminal is complicated because of vte incompatibilities, xfdesktop is just waiting for thunar to publish.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-21
<k3dar7> vte problem in launchpad/build? i try build xfce4-terminal myself and build/run ok (after install libvte-2.91-dev libpcre2-dev)
<Unit193> vte in bionic didn't build against pcre2, so that had to be patched out of xfce4-terminal.
<k3dar7> i build git clone of https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-terminal with libvte-2.91-dev and libpcre2-dev from bionic oficial repo
<k3dar7> sorry, i maybe not understand :)
<Unit193> `apt-cache policy libvte-2.91-dev`?
<k3dar7> https://pastebin.com/raw/bDqnUv4q
<k3dar7> wait a moment, relogin after upgraded xfdesktop4
<Unit193> I just killall xfdesktop4, but yeah that shouldn't work for xfce4-terminal...
<k3dar7> for terminal after install selfbuild i only close all terminals, but for xfdesktop4 i not sure if kill it is enought :)
<k3dar7> offtopic, is any change in KillUserProcesses=no ? i have it in logind.conf and for sure in logind.conf.d/somename.conf, but tmux is killed :)
<Unit193> `loginctl enable-linger`
<Unit193> k3dar7: Ah right!  I remember now, the terminal will build, but you won't be able to click any links.
<k3dar7> "loginctl enable-linger" not help, although /var/lib/systemd/linger/meusername is created, nevermind, back to ontopic :) i go try terminal with links
<Unit193> OK, that's how I get screen to stick around.
<k3dar7> with terminal you right, git build not have underline/clickable links, in 0.8.7.4-0ubuntu0.18.04 is ok
<k3dar7> terminal from git with applied ubuntu_vte_no_regex.patch have links ok: click_middle, open_link&copy_link from context menu
<Unit193> Yes, it would.
<k3dar7> is not clear/possible add this patch to lp build?
<Unit193> It would be, but then it wouldn't be a no-change backport (and the vte mess really is frustrating, considering the poor reasoning.)
<k3dar7> ans must be no-change? or is "only" better?
<k3dar7> btw: xfce4-panel build after "cp libxfce4util-xfce-4.14pre1/libxfce4util/libxfce4util-1.0.gir /usr/local/share/gir-1.0/"
<k3dar7> but when run thet say almost plugins not found and removed from panel conf :))
<k3dar7> problem with panel in /usr/local and plugins in /usr?
<k3dar7> confirm, if copy installed plugins to /usr/local/... then compiled xfce4-panel-xfce-4.14pre1 on 18.04 run ok with load all plugins
<k3dar7> can me problem with building on lp only missed libxfce4util-1.0.gir ?
<k3dar7> *can be
<Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre: I don't suppose it'd work to upstream our com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy.in and Thunar/uca.xml.in?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: powersj says demote it now, and promote mailman3 when ready @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=74d15b1191b1a9a9e392bf99511a87ec1fdca250 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: mail-stack-delivery is a transitional to dovecot-core now @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=b786b748a90f5d92b2f96bff8773167a4e30f0e4 (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: remove strongswan plugins that no more exist @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=42c2f8826f7a2ffa837db7ffc9e4a2814309d23d (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: strongswan-tnc-* now are transitionals to libcharon-extra-plugins @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=1e1e65b58b0d17c826276d030b7e9f6e33a3cddc (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: strongswan-ike is purely virtual these days @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=196ce6dfc8b789b3695008796442f27661851140 (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop python-ceph @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=5e485b6efdc0b6a0cc33078b685921144477e750 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Promote python3-neutron-vpnaas back in. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a94b51c3c9d70f810fcf6622ab979b5f389dc248 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Demote swift until ported to python3. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=25b8f99ce247d6a1ae2dc6bef8a48af1d1587b70 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Merge branch 'demote-swift' of git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform into eoa... @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=9f0d79aef90c40f2490fa422ba06c683a332c41a (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<ochosi> Unit193: oh wow :) panel because all the plugins would need rebuilding..?
<Unit193> All gtk2 panel plugins would conflict with it, yeah.
<ochosi> :/
<Unit193> (Specifically, their depends go as xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13), so the new panel would be held back.)
<k3dar7> Unit193: please, is any chance you add xfce4-terminal (with patch from 18.04 repo source) and xfce4-panel (with libxfce4util/libxfce4util-1.0.gir from libxfce4util-xfce-4.14pre1) ? :-)
<Unit193> Why are you looking for introspection support?
<ochosi> Unit193: upgraded a laptop at work today to 4.14pre1 via the PPA, thanks again <3
<Unit193> Happy that it is useful.
<k3dar7> Unit193: introspection? i only looking for support latest LTS in yours PPA :)
<k3dar7> Unit193: i know that 18.04 is not pripary for Xubuntu-Dev, but if compilation still work, why not have all latest packages? :-)
<k3dar7> *primary
<Unit193> You were asking about libxfce4util/libxfce4util-1.0.gir, introspection, which isn't something we or Debian currently enables.  Because it breaks packages in the archive seems like a good reason to me.
<Eickmeyer> Anybody aware of anything upstream on the status of bug 1291855?
<ubottu> bug 1291855 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "After pulseaudio restart, volume keys no longer work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291855
<k3dar7> oh, ok, me bad, i write about this, because this is need while i build panel manualy
<brainwash> Eickmeyer: xubuntu does not use xfce4-volumed I think
<brainwash> anymore
<Eickmeyer> Oh! What is used instead?
<Eickmeyer> We have people coming to #ubuntustudio asking why their volume keys don't work anymore after they've switched between Jack and PulseAudio as their sound server.
<Unit193> Indeed not, and even then Ubuntu has used a forked version for a while.  Now xfce4-volumed-pulse exists upstream, which is closer to what we have.
<Eickmeyer> The only way has been the workaround I mentioned in that bug report.
<brainwash> xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<brainwash> that one manages media keys now
<Eickmeyer> Okay, we might have to make a change in our seed.
 * Eickmeyer wishes more people would test Studio before we release it to prevent these bugs
<brainwash> it is a panel plugin
<Eickmeyer> So was xfce4-volumed iirc.
<Unit193> No
<Eickmeyer> Okay then. We just need to remove that from our seed and make sure the panel plugin is handling audio events. We might need some help with that.
<Unit193> Also indicator-sound would need to go, presuming you ship it.
<Eickmeyer> Not sure, I'm on the wrong machine right now.
<Unit193> Also, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15332
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15332 in General "Automatically reconnect to PulseAudio" [Normal,New]
<Eickmeyer> Unit193: Thanks. Our seed hasn't been changed much in 3 years when it comes to the Xfce stuff, so there have been some changes that haven't made it apparently. :/
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-22
<Unit193> So does anyone else in here use xfce4-volumed?
<Unit193> https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-11-23-22.01.log.html#l-453 huh.
<bluesabre> should probably swap that in soon
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-23
<Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/libxfce4util/commit/aba0dbe116f9f20ca26e36e554d243c656666b2e is kind of bad for us, gives us https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/libxfce4util/blob/debian/master/debian/patches/01_add-desktop-base-in-config-dirs.patch and we'd lose 
<Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/libxfce4util/blob/debian/master/debian/patches/xubuntu_desktop-x-ubuntu-gettext.patch
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/lGSEH7UEz0z9i7BsrhPm !
<Unit193> (I"m hoping he'll accept that approach.)
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's a clever solution :)
<Unit193> There's no way I can make -settings work for both of us though, same for libxfce4ui.
<Unit193> Well..
<bluesabre> time to upstream xubuntu :D
<Unit193> I *could*
<Unit193> bluesabre: If you convert menulibre to introspection, then the support can be added.
<Unit193> For that, not glade.
<bluesabre> oh, and use garcon? :)
<bluesabre> no way to convince him to enable those things in debian?
<Unit193> Well at this point there's nothing using it, if something does then sure.
<bluesabre> chicken and egg scenario for new contributors :D
<Unit193> Only if the world revolves around Debian.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ...Didn't I ping you and Simon about something..?  Also, want to see something horrible?
<Unit193> 03:02:47 < Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre: I don't suppose it'd work to upstream our com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy.in and Thunar/uca.xml.in?  Ah!  This, I don't remember if you responded, sorry.
<bluesabre> Sure?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/qR96upAST7XZqwUhV36A/ :D
<bluesabre> I think the mousepad pkexec policy makes sense to upstream
<bluesabre> `Build-Profiles`, first time seeing that, I think
<Unit193> I do too, the thunar bit is the 'open terminal here' bit that I like.
<bluesabre> Yeah, can be mostly upstreamed except for our thunar-print script
<Unit193> This also limits the translations we carry ourselves.
<Unit193> Awesome
<Unit193> ochosi: Congrats.
<ochosi> thanks Unit193 
<flocculant> congrats ochosi :)
<flocculant> sorry ...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-24
<Unit193> bluesabre: Happen to know how to test if X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain support in libxfce4util works?
<scootergrisen> Do people know menulibre is broke in Xubuntu 19.04?
<brainwash> scootergrisen: if they do know, then there should be a bug report for it
<scootergrisen> Guess its https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1825213 with unicodedecodeerror
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825213 in MenuLibre "UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode bytes in position 34-35: unexpected end of data" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> there are actually 5 reports for this bug
<brainwash> and a pending fix
<scootergrisen> Clearly we need number 6
<brainwash> bluesabre is the menulibre maintainer
<scootergrisen> ok
<brainwash> now he should be informed :)
<scootergrisen> But is he well informed?
<scootergrisen> That is the question
<bluesabre> I'm informed now
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/libxfce4util/compare/50b88c44...f39c9d06 so we're still good with libxfce4util.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's great, way to go!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-25
<Unit193> Did the move to git break https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings ?
<bluesabre> LP translations don't seem to play right with git... I thought I'd set it up correctly though (looks like we just had a danish translation)
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/log/ last one hit bionic..
<bluesabre> Yeah, they have to be manually applied now
<bluesabre> So I believe they go to a branch and have to be merged
<bluesabre> Feel free to dig in there and see if there's a way to improve :)
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1473712 I see...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473712 in Launchpad itself "Import translations from & export them to git repos" [High,Triaged]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you get a chance to look at the disorganized list of patches I had?
<bluesabre> Unit193: not yet, but I do have the list up in front of me :)
<Unit193> Need me to do a better job on it? :P
<bluesabre> Nah
<Unit193> Anything you need from me, bluesabre?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't think so currently... was there anything else that I needed to upload (other than light-locker/screensaver swap)?
<Unit193> OK, I resign then.  Going off to Debian, toodles! /s
<bluesabre> :P
<Unit193> Uhh...Not that I know of?  We'll need to make a note about translations before final release, but that's a bit from now.
<bluesabre> Cool :)
<Unit193> Oh!  The  xfce4-sensors-plugin build failure?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-05-26
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - anything much going on in the ppa's at the moment? if not I'll ask again a bit later in the 6 months
<Unit193> Pretty much all of Xfce 4.13 is in the archive, so the only thing different should be xfconf.
<flocculant> Unit193: okey doke - thanks :)
<flocculant> wandering off into the distance again :)
<tracker1> JOIN
<tracker1> HELLO ?
<tracker8> hi
<tracker8> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-18
<Unit193> ali1234: I like Debian's method better...Set the default higher, but allow users to downgrade if they so desire. :/
<Unit193> ...Without recompiling openssl.
<Unit193> See also: Debian 959481
<ubottu> Debian bug 959481 in alpine "alpine: does not connect with TLS to smtp/imap server" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/959481
<ali1234> seclevel?
<ali1234> you can reduce it in ubuntu too
<ali1234> but i don't want to, i want the hosting provider to fix their servers
<ali1234> they are like "everythings fine our servers use TLS1.3 and ECDHE"
<ali1234> and i'm like "yeah but you still send SHA1 handshakes even though the client said it doesn't accept them"
<Unit193> Ah, I may have missed a bit.  I only saw xnox that they enforced it more.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is bluesabre
<bluesabre> What's the bug # for snaps not respecting the icon theme in Xubuntu?
<bluesabre> The reason it doesn't work is because we configure the cursor theme as "Default", instead of "DMZ (White)". The themes snap doesn't have a Default, so it falls back the native X one.
<ochosi> yuck
<bluesabre> We gotta be more assertive, I guess :D
<ochosi> heh
<bluesabre> Turns out we set it to Human... which has not existed for us for a very very long time
<Unit193> I thought we updated alternatives and used 'default'.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set Gtk/CursorThemeName to DMZ-White @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7ea4e59df2394140b28cf92b2651d327a800f00f (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> ^
<bluesabre> Made it explicit to what we expect as the default
<ochosi> noice
<Unit193> Oh hahaha. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure if I ever told you this, but it amuses me to no end that you use my template. ;3
<Unit193> ...Also makes it easier to tell what time it is.
<bluesabre> Unit193: which template? 
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-19
<Unit193> Err, right!  Meeting mail.
<bluesabre> Oh yeah
<bluesabre> It's the easiest one to find, so I copy it
<bluesabre> So thanks for that :D
<Unit193> \o/
<jphilips> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1877857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838008 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1877857 [snap] cursor theme isn't respected" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jphilips> bluesabre: you gonna be on BDDL this saturday when they review xubuntu?
<bluesabre> jphilips: that's the plan :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: anyone else from the team joining you, like ochosi or Unit193?
<Unit193> BDDL?
<jphilips> yes
<bluesabre> Was going to nag about it today at the meeting :)
<jphilips> oh i let the cat out the bag
<Unit193> What is BDDL?
<jphilips> big daddy linux
<Unit193> Ah, the reverse of tails.  Interesting. :>
<jphilips> sean was on the show for the 19.10 release i believe
<jphilips> yep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb2lLVBKBw
<Unit193> Because he's the face of Xubuntu, of course!
<bluesabre> I did get ochosi to do the 19.10 destination linux episode :)
<Unit193> ...I haven't shaved since March, I'm surely not the face of anywhere right now. >_>
<jphilips> you dont need to show your face :D
<bluesabre> !team | Reminder, community meeting tonight at 21:00 UTC, hope to see you there!
<ubottu> Reminder, community meeting tonight at 21:00 UTC, hope to see you there!: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011971.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for updating the factoid :)
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<jphilips> for those interested in helping with documentation, we are working on the 'What is Xubuntu?' page - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jqimfff79oQH63xNwVwIaO0YFUkvCBzZtMC4up5ssDY/edit#
<jphilips> sorry wrong doc. here it is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kkq51aJLT-BdCogUS4INhrR4e_IRgLT7YlUAWL32m4g/edit#
<jphilips> bluesabre: meeting time
<pleia2> o/
<jphilips> hi pleia2. hope you are feeling better
<pleia2> thank you :) getting there
<pleia2> oh! I wanted to tell you that the release video was wonderful, thanks again for making that :)
<bluesabre> I'm here!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> One sec to get my bearings.
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 19 21:02:32 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | Meeting time!
<ubottu> Meeting time!: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<pleia2> o/
<bluesabre> #chair pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre pleia2
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<bluesabre> We'll wait a short few for everybody to show up. (and for me to close a bunch of tabs)
<jphilips> pleia2: glad to hear you're getting there and that you enjoyed the release video. it got featured on OMG Ubuntu :D
<pleia2> yes, I saw!
<jphilips> stumbled on your episode on linux spotlight, which i hope to watch soon
<bluesabre> Noticed the meeting minutes weren't added from the last meeting, so adding those right quick
<pleia2> I wish I had done it from my home office in california, I was sitting in my kitchen in pennsylvania and the backdrop is boring :)
<pleia2> jphilips: just now finally got to reviewing the video text for what is Xubuntu
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks
<bluesabre> Last meeting minutes added, so let's go ahead and start the meeting :)
<pleia2> thanks, bluesabre!
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<bluesabre> #info bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up email/vote to the list
<bluesabre> That was in regard to the desktop changes. Now that 20.10 has started, I say lets get that vote out this week (along with the other votes we're going to have)
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and announcements
<jphilips> curious how to have people vote on every item suggested in the google doc?
<bluesabre> #info akxwi-dave and slickymaster have been deactivated from the team since they've been inactive for a while. Thanks for all the support you've given us over the years!
<bluesabre> jphilips: we'll need to consolidate some of those suggestions. I think we discussed how we were going to combine them in this meeting: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-03-19-21.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> #info jphilips put together a nice release video for 20.04, check it out if you haven't seen it (link below)
<bluesabre> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_uVSNnIGY
<pleia2> it's so good!
<bluesabre> Any other updates or announcements?
<jphilips> do we want to mention about the work going on with the documentation?
<bluesabre> Definitely
<jphilips> okay
<bluesabre> Maybe get some more contributors in the process :)
<jphilips> every week we are going through a single page of the documentation in google docs
<jphilips> announcing the editing of the google doc on social media and in the ML
<jphilips> we had a new contributor today for this week's 'What is Xubuntu?' page
<bluesabre> Oh nice
<pleia2> great :)
<jphilips> we have weekly meetings on Saturday at 3pm UTC for the finalization of the edits make on the google doc worked on each week
<jphilips> the weekly meeting happens on Zoom
<jphilips> its in audio
<jphilips> i think that's it for documentation
<bluesabre> Cool, thanks :)
<bluesabre> pleia2: anything else to add for U&A?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<bluesabre> On to the next section :)
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic GitHub Proposal
<bluesabre> I've been working on this one for a bit.
<bluesabre> Here's the proposal: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/github
<bluesabre> A demo Xubuntu-Team organization so we can see it in practice: https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team
<pleia2> does this cause any problems with iso building or any of the stuff Canonical does for us? (didn't see it in the Cons)
<bluesabre> It shouldn't affect anything of that nature.
<bluesabre> I also spoke with Wimpress of Ubuntu Mate (and Desktop) and he says everything works well for them there.
<pleia2> philosophically I'm sad to see us move from an open source platform for development and translations to proprietary ones (both github and transifex) but I do understand the practical considerations
<pleia2> it's probably worth moving just so it's easier on new developers we always need
<bluesabre> The one codebase we'd keep hosted on Launchpad is the seed, since AAs contribute directly to it.
<pleia2> gotcha
<Unit193> I'd imagine the seed has to remain on launchpad though.  I think turning off 'issues' on Github and leaving those on Launchpad (package bugs) makes sense though, since it's linked and more findable.
<bluesabre> Yeah, and that's definitely an option.
<pleia2> Unit193: good point re: bugs
<Unit193> Also: `ubuntu-bug` will work. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<pleia2> yeah, and all the related testing documentation
<ochosi> hi all
<ochosi> weird, i didn't see the ping for the meeting
<ochosi> sry to be late
<bluesabre> hey ochosi, glad you could make it
<bluesabre> Disabled issues and added a note on the readme @ https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/README.md for that example
<jphilips> would moving to gitlab rather than github make it more acceptable to contributors who oppose github?
<bluesabre> Easier to see at https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings
<Unit193> bluesabre: So if it's code and translations only, yeah that makes sense I guess.  I'm not exactly keen on it either, but it is what it is.
<bluesabre> jphilips: I think Gitlab keeps the benefit of the more advanced platform, but loses out on the wider userbase. It also creates an issue of where and how to host.
<bluesabre> Whereas Ubuntu, derivatives, and other projects are already on GitHub.
<Unit193> I think he means gitlab.com.
<jphilips> i remember ubuntu mate used to host on gitlab.com and then moved to github.com
<Unit193> bluesabre: gitlab.xfce.org! :>
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> well we're still working on gitlab.xfce ;)
<ochosi> i would also go for github
<ochosi> because of the rest of *buntu also being there
<jphilips> oh okay. i prefer it as well.
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> how does ubuntu handle LP bugs vs. GH issues?
<ochosi> plus do we still run package builds through LP?
<bluesabre> We'd keep package builds running with mirrored LP repos
<bluesabre> As for the bugs, we're considering now: disable GH issues, and point visitors to report issues for the packages on Ubuntu. Not sure if that interferes with merge requests.
<bluesabre> Otherwise, LP has upstream bug linking options, like we currently do for Xfce bugs
<ochosi> depends on whether you want to be able to automatically close issues with MRs
<bluesabre> Even now, our bugs are only closed by package uploads (or somebody reviewing them later after upload)
<Unit193> Which to me, makes more sense.
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> what i meant: i wouldnt expect many troubles with MRs and issues
<Unit193> I think LP has support for watching for fix committed, but think that only works with bzr. :P
<ochosi> but the whole mix may end up being a little confusing
<ochosi> because the code will be mirrored on LP
<ochosi> but then again, i don#t remember people flocking into LP to contribute...
<ochosi> (in the last years at least, in the early years yes)
<pleia2> mirroring of git repos is pretty common practice across open source these days
<bluesabre> Yeah, I get lots of pastes and random emails with patches.
<pleia2> usually it's the other way around (so it's discoverable on github, but you contribute elsewhere), but it's still a thing
<jphilips> ubuntu mate has a page showing where to file bugs and patches for different parts of the development - https://ubuntu-mate.org/get-involved/development/
<pleia2> if I'm honest, launchpad is already so confusing to navigate, we don't lose much by having people do different things in different places :\
<bluesabre> jphilips: that's a pretty cool resource
<jphilips> yep there new website is quite nicely organized
<jphilips> their*
<bluesabre> With all the xubuntu things being fairly easy to find from the GH homepage, it might actually make things easier https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team :D
<pleia2> indeed :)
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> So yeah, any other concerns or talking points? Should we open up team voting here and resume it in the ML, or just do all in the ML?
<bluesabre> Or should we just roll with it?
<Unit193> Moving all code hosting seems like something we might want to vote on. :>
<bluesabre> Figured as much :D
<bluesabre> #vote Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bluesabre> #chair ochosi
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi pleia2
<bluesabre> #chair Unit193
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
<bluesabre> #voters Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
<meetingology> Current voters: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia2
<bluesabre> #voters knome krytarik 
<meetingology> Current voters: Unit193 bluesabre knome krytarik ochosi pleia2
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<Unit193> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
<bluesabre> ochosi knome krytarik?
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<bluesabre> Neat, 4/6
<bluesabre> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex
<bluesabre> Thanks for voting!
<bluesabre> #subtopic Telegram Groups and IRC Bridge
<Unit193> Now, does everyone have an account?  I know krytarik doesn't.
<bluesabre> That's fun
<jphilips> i have an account
<bluesabre> RE: Github, we'll still be able to accept MRs from remote repos
<bluesabre> #link https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/telegram-bridge
<bluesabre> jphilips: want to lead on this?
<jphilips> not sure how to :D
<jphilips> can answer any questions people have after they've read the proposal
<bluesabre> There's a in-testing Telegram bridge at https://t.me/XubuntuSupport and #xubuntu-support (I think that's right)
<jphilips> but the basic idea is to create telegram groups for xubuntu and xubuntu-devel and bridge them to the irc channels to make it easier for people to get involved and get help
<jphilips> yes we've setup a group for support and bridged it with #xubuntu-support while we await approval
<Unit193> While I'm fully against the idea, I understand the reasoning, but I don't see the point in linking the support medium.
<jphilips> aaditya is the one who has setup the bridge
<Unit193> Reasining for development*
<ochosi> i don't have a big opinion on this
<ochosi> i'm not active in the support channel for a while already, not enough time
<ochosi> and for development i read the backlog when i have time
<ochosi> on my phone i also read stuff when i *don't* have time
<Unit193> I #kubuntu, I see spam all the time come across, and general frustration among some of the common folks that help out.
<bluesabre> Is it general spam, or is it just less-than-ideal visitors?
<ochosi> can't say that surprises me
<bluesabre> I'm still pretty new to Telegram, but I have seen more open source projects seeming to embrace it recently.
<pleia2> who has access to bringing the bridge back up if it goes down?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Spam, it's getting to the point that when you see a female name join, you wonder if it's another drive-by. :/
<bluesabre> Ouch.
<pleia2> Unit193: yikes :(
<jphilips> pleia2: once its on xubuntu infra, bluesabre would have it
<bluesabre> Once I have access to the infra
<pleia2> on dev.xubuntu.org or...?
<bluesabre> I'd be willing to support if we went forward with the proposal.
<pleia2> ok, thanks bluesabre 
<jphilips> unlike IRC, its easy to ban someone from the telegram group, unless they create another account with a new cell number
<pleia2> I'm wondering if we could do a trial, and if it doesn't work just split them off to entirely separate resources
<bluesabre> Haven't done server-side stuff for Xubuntu to this point, but that's what I spend a lot of my time on in my IRL job
<pleia2> doesn't work == spam, unreliability, anything else that annoys people
<Unit193> I *really* don't like that it basically would change #xubuntu-offtopic into a logged channel. :/
<bluesabre> That seems like a reasonable way to go about it. If the bridges turn out to be bad, the Telegram support group could just be a separate supported.
<pleia2> I don't think we'd do it for offtopic
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh, this is only considering #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel
<Unit193> bluesabre: Aha!  Thanks!
<jphilips> does anyone here have OP for #xubuntu, so we can do the trial?
<bluesabre> jphilips: where is the current bridge currently hosted? Would we need to move infra first?
<jphilips> aaditya is hosting it now on his private server
<Unit193> Who is aaditya?
<jphilips> the sysadmin who volunteered to assist in setting up the bridge
<Unit193> ...Yes thanks I got that part...
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre> lol
<pleia2> jphilips: aaditya is ok with us going "into production" with it still on his server, right?
<pleia2> aside from that, I suspect it's up to us whether we want to move it now or later
<jphilips> yes
<pleia2> so, do we want to move it first? :)
<pleia2> I'd be more comfortable that way, but it's signing up bluesabre for work :D
<bluesabre> I'll be deep in Github for the next week
<jphilips> aaditya could do it to ease the burden
<pleia2> he's been a very helpful volunteer, but it probably requires giving root on our development server, and I'm not willing to do that :\
<pleia2> we know bluesabre, but we don't know aaditya yet
<bluesabre> But if we're fine with waiting a week, I'd happily help get it set up after that.
<jphilips> okay
<pleia2> seems fine to me
<bluesabre> pleia2: do I need to talk to somebody in Canonical to get server access, or do you handle that within our team?
<pleia2> that's me
<bluesabre> Neato.
<pleia2> I just need a public ssh key and preferred username
<bluesabre> Cool, I'll send those your way.
<pleia2> great
<bluesabre> Once I finish the Github migration, we'll do the bridge. :)
<pleia2> oh, you already have an account
<bluesabre> Unit193: And you're the one to talk to about OP on #xubuntu, I take it?
<bluesabre> pleia2: oh
<ochosi> hah
<pleia2> so just lmk if you can't log in and we can update your key ;)
<Unit193> Would this be another thing we vote on?
<pleia2> Unit193: oh, probably
<bluesabre> Yeah, that seems fair.
<bluesabre> :D
<jphilips> presume OP isn't necessary, was only needed for a trial I was thinking about doing were the telegram bot would muted from the IRC side
<bluesabre> #vote Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<Unit193> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<bluesabre> ochosi knome krytarik?
<bluesabre> (this one will probably head to ML)
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from ochosi
<bluesabre> Alrighty, ML it is for this one :)
<bluesabre> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:2 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge
<bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Council Nominations for the 22.04 Cycle
<bluesabre> 20.04 was great, and now its time for a 22.04 council
<bluesabre> I don't remember what we did last time, tbh
<bluesabre> So I'm gonna have to dig :D
<Unit193> [18:27:30] < Unit193> If we want to be lazy and use a template: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2018-April/011644.html
<bluesabre> I love not digging
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> So, you, Simon and Lyz this time? :>
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> I'll do lots of begging
<bluesabre> So yeah, I'll fire that announcement off to the ML too
<ochosi> i'm more than likely to stick around, just not sure how actively
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations
<ochosi> as you've noticed i've drifted more and more towards the various upstreams (be it shimmer or xfce)
<pleia2> as for me, being a new parent is hard
<bluesabre> I'm just lazy most days
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre> Let's get this wrapped up soon so everybody can have a nice evening :)
<bluesabre> #topic AOB
<Unit193> We might need more ML list moderators.
<bluesabre> Anybody, anything to discuss?
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> I should do a better job of it
<bluesabre> (or some job of it)
<Unit193> I do spam, but there's other stuff there now too. :P
<Unit193> I had another thing, but I can't remember.
<pleia2> oh yeah, I haven't been tending to the queue at all :\
<pleia2> sometimes I look and let month+ old things through
<pleia2> "oops"
<pleia2> so if anyone wants to help with moderation, do let us know :)
<bluesabre> "Those darn ubuntu mail servers, they hold email forever"
<pleia2> for -devel mostly it's letting legit things through and replying to support requests redirecting them to support
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Anything else?
<bluesabre> (I smell dinner)
<jphilips> do we want to consider opening a forum or discourse for support?
<Unit193> Still can't remember it, so guess not.
<Unit193> ubuntuforums.org
<bluesabre> ^ seems like the way to go
<Unit193> Pretty sure they have a flavors section already, so we're set.
<bluesabre> Nifty.
<jphilips> yes a section for all flavors
<jphilips> each flavor has their own forum or discourse
<Unit193> Seems covered then.
<jphilips> maybe what i said wasn't clear enough. none of the flavors use ubuntuforums.org
<bluesabre> I think we have an adequate number of support options for now in askubuntu, irc, xfce forums, and non-specialized ubuntu forums
<jphilips> okay
<bluesabre> Wrapping up :)
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #action knome to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 19 22:37:50 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-05-19-21.02.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everybody
<bluesabre> Dinner time, bbl
<Unit193> Thanks, bluesabre.
<jphilips> thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> have a nice evening/night everyone
<jphilips> you to ochosi 
<Unit193> pleia2: Nice to catch you around again!
<Unit193> Hrm, is it July yet?  Can I scrub bionic from all PPAs? :3
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-20
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, I guess I should mention.  I only know English, don't really know translation systems well nor transifex, but I *do* have an account already. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: So what hit me, 'Xubuntu-Team' looks odd, is there any way we can just use the seemingly unused 'Xubuntu'?
<bluesabre> Unit193: when I tried to do "Xubuntu", I got an error that it was already in use
<bluesabre> Apparently somebody has a private account or org holding our name
<bluesabre> Tried changing it again, "Username is not available"
<Unit193> Hrm, maybe contacting them could help.
<bluesabre> Yeah, will do that.
<bluesabre> Might be the big C registered it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Entirely surprisingly, I am 'unit193'!
<bluesabre> Thanks Unit193!
<Unit193> Anything I can do to help?
<bluesabre> Translations with auto-sync are now configured for https://www.transifex.com/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/ and  https://www.transifex.com/xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: there's a couple repos that need to be git-ified, if you want to do that? Otherwise, was going to follow our old guide on it tomorrow https://wiki.bluesabre.org/development/git-migrations
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-development-server
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing
<bluesabre> I'm now too tired to function, so time for bed :)
<bluesabre> night all
<bluesabre> Tomorrow I'll send a Transifex invite email out to all of our past translation contributors to join the new Xubuntu Translators team
<Unit193> ...Write a blog post, get it on planet and in Ubuntu news?
<bluesabre> That's a good idea :)
<Unit193> ...I'm going to have to learn how to deal with that, aren't I?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sorry I didn't get a chance, I might be able to Weds.
<jphilips> yep we need a blog post about the move to github and transifex. i could announce it on social media, but it would be better to have a blog post to give more details about the decision.
<jphilips> bluesabre: for transifex, the primary focus would be to get the xubuntu slides up, so I can start pushing for people to translate it there.
<jphilips> documentation is having a rewrite, so we shouldn't ask translators to work on translating that presently
<bluesabre> I agree
<Unit193> I haven't seen anything land in git though, hasn't that been going on a couple weeks...?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, it's all being staged in Google Docs
<bluesabre> Most of my FOSS emails in the last year have been in the last 2 weeks :D
<bluesabre> jphilips: I'll work on the blog post once all the parts have stopped moving. Got an ack from GitHub support that we can have the Xubuntu org name, so our URLs are in flux until they move it :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: what's happened in the last 2 weeks
<jphilips> congrats on getting the name on github \o/
<bluesabre> jphilips: I started being less lazy I suppose :D
<bluesabre> Time for work, bbl
<Unit193> Or work started letting up a bit.
<bluesabre> That's also related :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-21
<bluesabre> Unit193: migrated a couple website things. When I tried migrating https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-development-server it turned into a mess, so I deleted the resulting git repo
<bluesabre> fast-export/import didn't do the job this time :\
<Unit193> OK, let me take a look real quick.
<bluesabre> Seems like the static-assets branch of xubuntu-website failed similarly
<Unit193> bluesabre: I seem to have got it?  What was the issue?
<bluesabre> Folder structure got out of whack
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://git.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/xubuntu-development-server.git/ ?
<bluesabre> That looks right
<Unit193> Then I'll do the website too for you.
<bluesabre> Awesome
<Unit193> ...makes me actually useful.
<bluesabre> I'll clone both from there to github so they're correct
<bluesabre> Nah, you're always useful :)
<Unit193> OK, so you want assets/plugins in branches or?
<bluesabre> It probably makes more sense to make them separate projects
<bluesabre> xubuntu-website-assets, xubuntu-website-plugins
<Unit193> ...Heh, so I should start over. ;D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Done, I think!
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good!
<bluesabre> I'll let you know once they're all pushed
<bluesabre> Thanks a bunch
<Unit193> Sure thing, any more I can do while I'm at it?  Happy to help.
<Unit193> bluesabre: So to explain.  I presume you're on current Ubuntu, thus you're using brz?  That has issues with fastimport and files re-appearing, the only way to fix this is to use the version of bzr-fastimport that I fixed, which is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-fastimport/0.13.0+bzr361-4ubuntu1 and thus you must use the python 2 version of bzr.
<bluesabre> Yep, that sounds like exactly what it was.
<Unit193> I already knew this because I had done some testing with brz and fastimport, but for the life of me I can't remember why.
<bluesabre> Maybe just being proactive because py2 was finally officially EOL?
<Unit193> I thought I tried to convert a repo.
<bluesabre> Unit193: and they're now up at https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team
<bluesabre> Thanks again
<bluesabre> Time to go back to doing some IRL work
<Unit193> Sure thing, always try to be helpful.  I'll delete them off mine now.
<bluesabre> bbl
<bluesabre> Oh, Unit193, want to convert one more?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing
<bluesabre> I think that's the last "main" xubuntu repo
<bluesabre> Yay!
<bluesabre> https://github.com/xubuntu
<jphilips_> bluesabre: congrats on getting the github url and for the move
<jphilips_> here's pleia2's github https://github.com/pleia2
<jphilips_> here's mine https://github.com/philipzae
<bluesabre> thanks jphilips, added you to the website team
<bluesabre> Time for bed for me, night all
<jphilips> is the move completed?
<jphilips> night
<bluesabre> There's one more repo to pull into github, then I gotta tweak a bunch of things on Launchpad
<bluesabre> I should finish tomorrow, I think
<jphilips> invite accepted
<jphilips> not sure if this would be useful, but i saw some github repos that are simply issue trackers or point users to issue trackers hosted elsewhere
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure thing!
<jphilips> bluesabre: my cellphone blew up with notifications :D
<bluesabre> Oh
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> Migrating issues to things that are not packages
<bluesabre> So probably lots of noise :D
<Unit193> Got the new repo so I can rm it?
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure did, thanks!
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> !info hub
<ubottu> hub (source: hub): make git easier with GitHub. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.7.0~ds1-1 (disco), package size 1580 kB, installed size 5338 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<bluesabre> That's pretty cool
<Unit193> Oh, should I be in docs too or no?
<bluesabre> Looks like you're not currently in it, somehow, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/+members#active
<bluesabre> And now you are
<Unit193> I really need to push that so translations work again.. :/
<bluesabre> Please do :)
<Unit193> I guess there's something I'm not really happy with, but I guess it's better than the current state.
<bluesabre> Unit193: what is it?
<Unit193> Not sure, maybe with how the translations all take a percentage hit?
<bluesabre> That should be fine, so we're redoing the docs currently anyway
<bluesabre> They're all going to be < 50%
<bluesabre> *since
<Unit193> Hopefully this doesn't mean things are changing and it won't break turning it back into XML. :>
 * bluesabre believes in Unit193
<Unit193> OK, I'll look into it later today.
<bluesabre> Thanks a bunch
<Unit193> !info itstool
<ubottu> itstool (source: itstool): tool for translating XML documents with PO files. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.0.5-2 (disco), package size 20 kB, installed size 117 kB
<bluesabre> ochosi: nagging to accept the invite to the github team
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> He thinks he ran away to Xfce upstream.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> All that's left for the migration now is setting up import branches on Launchpad and updating all the project descriptions to push people to GitHub for the code.
<bluesabre> Pretty cool.
<bluesabre> Time to do other things, bbl
<bluesabre> jphilips: I think I'll use your landing page project idea to point people to the slideshow project and translations. All flavor slideshows are translated together: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<jphilips> great
<Unit193> Oh, anything I need to know about transifex?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I can add you as a collaborator there... what's your username
<Unit193> Wanna guess?
<bluesabre> Guess its too short to look you up
<bluesabre> Wanna send me your email address used there instead?
<Unit193> Dang, well I should be unit193, I think.  But gmail.com?
<Unit193> Yep, username is 'unit193'
<bluesabre> Cool
<bluesabre> Sent you an invite
<Unit193> !info transifex-client
<ubottu> transifex-client (source: transifex-client): Command line interface for Transifex. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.13.5-2 (disco), package size 162 kB, installed size 445 kB
<Unit193> bluesabre_xubuntu, eh?
<bluesabre> I have another account there... but one account can only have one organization
<bluesabre> So I had to ... cheat
<Unit193> Huh.  Gotcha.
<jphilips> bluesabre: noticed that importing doesn't seem to bring everything from launchpad
<jphilips> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-website/issues/9#issuecomment-632005906
<jphilips> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1842182/comments/1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1842182 in Xubuntu Website "Site lacks 18.04 screenshots" [Undecided,Fix released]
<jphilips> it brought in 'This has been resolved.' but not the rest
<ochosi> bluesabre: somehow doesnt work on phone, gotta do it tonight
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, did those comments after the bug migration
<jphilips> pleia2, bluesabre: i think this bug by knome can be closed https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-website/issues/1
<jphilips> or am i missing something
<jphilips> bluesabre: any thoughts why when i'm searching with catfish in the /usr/share/icons/ folder, its being up results from the /mnt/ folder?
<bluesabre> jphilips: my guess would be that something in there has a questionable symlink
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do we want to switch to ubot93 for bugsnarfing?  It additionally has support for GitLab installations (xfce) and GitHub.
<Unit193> Got ubottu's !info default updated to groovy.
<genii> Unit193: For +1 and the -devel channels?
<Unit193> genii: Just for here.
<genii> Just curious :)
<Unit193> See -irc.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-22
<bluesabre> Unit193: sounds good to me :)
<Unit193> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-website/issues/1
<ubot93> Issue 1 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-website "Torrent link for 32-bit image needs to be hideable" [Open]
<bluesabre> Nice
<Unit193> !info passwdqc
<ubottu> passwdqc (source: passwdqc): password strength checking and policy enforcement toolset. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.0-1build1 (groovy), package size 16 kB, installed size 48 kB
<Unit193> (Just ensuring the bots play nice together.)
<bluesabre> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkbAcwYix7I
<bluesabre> That's cool. Once Launchpad knew about xubuntu-website's GitHub issue tracker, it linked all the existing bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/auto-github-xubuntu-xubuntu-website
<Unit193> Shiny!
<xubuntu28> Bonsoir !
<xubuntu28> Je reve d'un tchat
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Create README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=b9834b6b6043e75f2bdd10e397d1a8cae6d73462 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Translate /user-docs/po/user-docs.pot in en_GB @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=155b2aaf8bbdbdd5a6be69c0ffd6b8370dc82c00 (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Translate /user-docs/po/user-docs.pot in es @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=8e8d0ba82a55874674cb8c0e8da53894ef822deb (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Translate /user-docs/po/user-docs.pot in pt @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=81238a5639d56a3b061630bedb24dced549d4165 (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=b0866d2482f14414e39fe2a2d29b599af5270779 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Import latest translations from Launchpad @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=cf1b896a57a5effcee2e5196fd65bcb855be33de (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=98f4e204319c12201289504f8695aff6f6b68f8e (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Good to know that works.
<bluesabre> LP's xubuntu-website and xubuntu-docs are both updated with mirrors and links to the right places
<bluesabre> I'll work on the others tomorrow
<Unit193> Huh, automatic commits from transifex?  Wow, shiny!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Lastly, I presume I should add a follow-up commit with 'Update potfiles.', since: 2 files changed, 4887 insertions(+), 5616 deletions(-)  :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: sounds important :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Open groovy development @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=b364969c97247f54a7dfcf3b635a188f9f2458a5 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Create README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=11545617df2ea416093d771a2443d749a6108d96 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=77254ea17b32144706ee711b9b2dfe15697400f9 (by Sean Davis)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-default-settings had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Update README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=d5b713439a2a115e174098c55476e2c115b263ad (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Import pt translation from Launchpad @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7745685ecbf997327ffee8cccf7e22d0cb06ab89 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Close lp 1838008 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f2ee8c4526862248edba19dc8a1aca9dfa10059b (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=79300fc4c7ebe5341ba2a43f74db8590c6bd96c2 (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=6121230be04ee6e87540d922a1c991fe0b41318d (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in pt @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=b90c8c479cc1652007215dc8b80a3ae74d7c497a (by transifex-integration[bot])
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Update README.md @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=c7c1f0e62d6376940466ddf398281d1905e70bca (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/a1c0ed852113260e9d24a40f7846cdc37bef6b5f
<Unit193> Now can I yell at you for broken changes?
<bluesabre> Unit193: of course!
<Unit193> Validation failed for some of the translations..
<bluesabre> Unit193: How do I test for that?
<Unit193> `make test`?
<Unit193> Validating fr/index.xml ...
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:193: element xref: validity error : Syntax of value for attribute linkend of xref is not valid
<Unit193> managing-applications.xml:256: element xref: validity error : Syntax of value for attribute linkend of xref is not valid
<Unit193> managing-applications.xml:256: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "Gestion des paquets hors-ligne"
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:193: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "Changer votre mode de mise Ã  niveau"
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, I'll work on getting that fixed
<Unit193> Thank you!
<bluesabre> Looks like the de-python2-ization of 20.04 killed bzr-builder
<Unit193> So my script basically does this, it runs clean then: make user-get-translations, make contributor-get-translations TRANSPERC=20, make user-html, make user-html-translations, make contributor-html, make contributor-html-translations TRANSPERC=20, make startpage REVNO=$revno, make test  :P
<bluesabre> Awesome, that will be handy
<Unit193> FWIW, this script is in cron, it only runs on changes then mails me.  If make test passes, it uploads the resulting contributor docs to the Xubuntu server.
<bluesabre> Unit193: what's that thing called where you run a different distro env (like running debian unstable to do package things, while in ubuntu)
<bluesabre> (not a vm)
<bluesabre> chroot
<bluesabre> Figured it out
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> docker? :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: better than docker, it just works and doesn't destroy itself :D
<ochosi> hah
<bluesabre> only 2 more failing dailies @ https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<bluesabre> Will have those fixed and our github announcement blog done tomorrow morning :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: Haha, yeah chroot or lxc!  Also, arch-chroot is super useful.
<Unit193> Hrm, so should I upload a current snapshot of the user guide too?
<Unit193> ....Does getting 'Xubuntu' verified on GitHub give us anything good?
<Unit193> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commits/master finally pushed the changes I've had sitting around for, uh...couple years? >_<
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think the verified thing just shows that we're actually the xubuntu folks
<bluesabre> Figured getting DNS changes would be a bit of a pain
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for pushing those changes!
<Unit193> Does one need to update the pot on transifex too, or does it automatically import?
<Unit193> And, sure thing!
<Unit193> https://docs.transifex.com/projects/updating-content/#automatically-updating-source-files
<bluesabre> Unit193: I believe the pot file will automatically update with the GitHub integration
<Unit193> Awesome.
<Unit193> My work here is done!  /part
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Move from deprecated gnome-doc-utils to itstool. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=a1c0ed852113260e9d24a40f7846cdc37bef6b5f (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update resulting *.pot files after move to itstool. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=a40a3c3bc8b4bd32a3038603c24b64f9e4bc969f (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update copyright years. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=8235e81d9eb48d7431c3e3331cc82be495e3aa9f (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: d/compat, d/control: Drop d/compat in favor of debhelper-compat, bump to 13. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=4a7b11b99706f0f5801d163153b605d1c1cc6e63 (by Unit 193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Align appendix-packages to seed changes. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=5176d23ebe681433f7f08e44e44abb272c0a5d28 (by Unit 193)
<Unit193> ...Maybe instead of itstool I should have used po4a.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we'll use whatever you recommend :)
<bluesabre> Here's a draft of the GitHub announcement, in case anybody wants to look over it or suggest changes. https://xubuntu.org/?p=5044&preview=true
<Unit193> ...Huh, more places use itstool than I realized!  That's great, I thought po4a was used more.  Already did the work on po4a, soooo. :3
<Unit193> I'll have to check the announcement later.
<bluesabre> Unit193: you've got time. Planning to publish it by 8PM so I can point people to it at BDLL later today and maybe get us some easy contributors.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we could actually add your translation test as a github action :) https://github.com/bluesabre/xubuntu-docs/runs/701882165?check_suite_focus=true
<bluesabre> Seeing how easy that was to set up, https://github.com/bluesabre/xubuntu-docs/commit/a2b5a00c45c0e994fa13d4309bedf5031cf2efb5, and that its free, https://github.com/features/actions, makes me giddy :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: here you go, https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/pull/1 :)
<ubot93> Pull 1 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs "Add GH Action for testing translations, fix builds for fr translation" [Open]
<jphilips> bluesabre: great idea to use BDLL as a means to promote the move :D
<jphilips> bluesabre: 'Our upstream and downstream projects are already on GitHub'? xfce is on gitlab
<jphilips> do we want contributors translating xubuntu-docs when its going through a rewrite?
<bluesabre> jphilips: xfce isn't our only upstream
<bluesabre> (and xfce is also mirrored on GitHub)
<jphilips> bluesabre: forgot to ask whether we want to bring in the editions section for the xubuntu videos doc
<bluesabre> jphilips: sure thing
<jphilips> bluesabre: added. please review. :D
<bluesabre> :] https://github.com/Xubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/wiki
<Unit193> I mean, I'd say it's our upstream, and it's not on GitHub. :P  Also all the make commands are if you want to skip fop, if you want to run that then I think 'all' works fine.
<bluesabre> hey there Unit193 
<Unit193> Heya!
<bluesabre> How's it going?
<Unit193> Bit hot.  You?  What's up?
<bluesabre> Just chilling. Waiting on dinner to finish cooking.
<Unit193> Oh, you're not reminding me to do something I forgot about? :o
<bluesabre> Oh, nope. You're in the clear.
<bluesabre> Went ahead and published https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-is-now-on-github/
<bluesabre> jphilips: ^
<Unit193> Cool, will give it a read!
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Can I make the 'Xubuntu, now powered by Microsoft" stickers yet? :D
<jphilips> bluesabre: will have it go out after BDLL, so you get the exclusive announcement :D
<Unit193> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/usr/bin/xubuntu-numlockx can this go to libexec to get it out of PATH?  Does that make sense?
<Unit193> Also dang, seems tracker.coppersurfer.tk is down.
<jphilips> Unit193: do we have any analytics for xubuntu.org or docs.xubuntu.org?
<Unit193> Nope.
<jphilips> i remember back in the day, there was some basic server side analytics i used to get on my servers from the hosting company i used, is there something like that we could install that analyzes the logs, so we dont have to use google analytics
<jphilips> has anyone tried any of the open source self-hosted google analytics alternatives like Matomo/piwik
<Unit193> !info goaccess
<ubottu> goaccess (source: goaccess): log analyzer and interactive viewer for the Apache Webserver. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:1.3-2 (groovy), package size 227 kB, installed size 787 kB
<jphilips> i found the back in the day log analyzer, it was awstats. brings back memories :D
<jphilips> seems its easy to install matomo for wordpress, which would help the main site but not the docs - https://matomo.org/faq/wordpress/how-do-i-install-matomo-for-wordpress/
<jphilips> they also be on github - https://github.com/matomo-org
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 20 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Import latest translations from Launchpad @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/cf1b896a57a5effcee2e5196fd65bcb855be33de (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update README.md @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/98f4e204319c12201289504f8695aff6f6b68f8e (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Move from deprecated gnome-doc-utils to itstool. @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/a1c0ed852113260e9d24a40f7846cdc37bef6b5f (by unit193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update resulting *.pot files after move to itstool. @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/a40a3c3bc8b4bd32a3038603c24b64f9e4bc969f (by unit193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Update copyright years. @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/8235e81d9eb48d7431c3e3331cc82be495e3aa9f (by unit193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: d/compat, d/control: Drop d/compat in favor of debhelper-compat, bumpâ¦ @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/4a7b11b99706f0f5801d163153b605d1c1cc6e63 (by unit193)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Align appendix-packages to seed changes. @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/5176d23ebe681433f7f08e44e44abb272c0a5d28 (by unit193)
<Unit193> SwissBot: Snitches get cut.
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-default-settings had 20 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Update README.md @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d5b713439a2a115e174098c55476e2c115b263ad (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Import pt translation from Launchpad @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/7745685ecbf997327ffee8cccf7e22d0cb06ab89 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Close lp 1838008 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/f2ee8c4526862248edba19dc8a1aca9dfa10059b (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/79300fc4c7ebe5341ba2a43f74db8590c6bd96c2 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/6121230be04ee6e87540d922a1c991fe0b41318d (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in pt @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/b90c8c479cc1652007215dc8b80a3ae74d7c497a (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Update README.md @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/c7c1f0e62d6376940466ddf398281d1905e70bca (by bluesabre)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 20 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 20.04.1 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/cb9e309727b7d962bb295fe266acddfef62349cf (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Minor updates to Focal wallpaper @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/12f9dd8e42d1a25756533f7721fef4eb828532c0 (by knomepasi)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Merge branch 'focal' of git+ssh://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork iâ¦ @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/3d29a6ece90a22b36fc6aac1aeb2f6b71e9968cb (by knomepasi)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release xubuntu-artwork 20.04.2 @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/410a908baf3ec1fbc276384ab5501ac6edd438a4 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Open groovy development @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/b364969c97247f54a7dfcf3b635a188f9f2458a5 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Create README.md @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/11545617df2ea416093d771a2443d749a6108d96 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update README.md @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/77254ea17b32144706ee711b9b2dfe15697400f9 (by bluesabre)
<bluesabre> Unit193: SwissBot ain't scared of nothing.
<Unit193> Truth.  I once saw it crash another bot. :3
<bluesabre> Nice
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-15-0-released-tp59168.html (by Andre Miranda)
<Unit193> ....The Core iso dropped about 50M..What?
<jphilips> bluesabre: in 24 minutes :D
<jphilips> https://www.youtube.com/bigdaddylinux/live
<bluesabre> Unit193: Python2?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-05-24
<jphilips> bluesabre: maybe we should put out a blog post or FAQ for upgraders facing the lightlocker issue
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like it was dropped, so could be related...
<bluesabre> Unit193: you got a shout-out and thank you from the BDLL chat :)
<bluesabre> !team | And more generally, the BDLL group says thank you for everything you contribute to the project and open source community
<ubottu> And more generally, the BDLL group says thank you for everything you contribute to the project and open source community: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit193
<Unit193> ....Huh.
<bluesabre> This is fantastic. "New Issue" for xubuntu-artwork in GitHub now does this: https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/issues/new/choose
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Create config.yml @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/3f505b1241c4a80ca8d4575e71f3ae347f7aaa83 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Update config.yml @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/f061b1e816ad1ead31b57a16808648396484d935 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Merge pull request #2 from bluesabre/master @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-artwork/commit/058d8840b8e33863df514b7b1932e83fbcd94efd (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Create config.yml @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/a30c057f31bc0fb435d66bfc95fa4659f6d797eb (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Create config.yml @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/7e288e73517e75b96743e2c89b656f0cbfc300a4 (by bluesabre)
<RikMills> does syslinux menu disply ok in your daily iso?
<bluesabre> Created our 20.10 "blueprints": https://github.com/orgs/Xubuntu/projects
<bluesabre> RikMills: good question, I haven't looked since 20.04 was released
<RikMills> bluesabre: it looks broken in vbox for xubuntu and kubuntu
<RikMills> https://i.imgur.com/M9wTvLn.png
<bluesabre> RikMills: that looks pretty broken :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Create test-translations.yml @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/a2b5a00c45c0e994fa13d4309bedf5031cf2efb5 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Fix linkend refs in FR translation @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/0787682ae2419ea1fae2ca2d5412fab08d40033b (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Restore default percentage level @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/9c6b6f87c6974efaf685674e4158db9295aa64f5 (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Merge pull request #1 from bluesabre/master @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/commit/52965e7c3efec6dd02e8ecb8cf8bc505189f7e0f (by bluesabre)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.15 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-15-released-tp59171.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks for answering some of the people on the announcement thread :D
