#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-22
<dutchie> argh
<dutchie> why has bluetooth suddenly stopped working
<dutchie> and now it's back
<dutchie> weird
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] AskUbuntu reaches 4000 questions - 9000 answers - 6000 users - 40000 votes - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/askubuntu-reaches-4000-questions-9000-answers-6000-users-40000-votes
<AlanBell> morning all
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell
<daubers> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<daubers> Am I the only person who's eying up a tablet as an easy way to get a car pc? All I need do is find a tablet of the correct dimensions
<DJones> Morning all & Nanu Nanu to TheOpenSourcerer
<nperry> Morning all
<nperry> daubers: how you planning on fixing it in?
<daubers> nperry: No idea
<DJones> daubers: I've seen a few suggestions for that idea
<daubers> hmmm
<daubers> Really do want to rip out my radio and replace it with a small computer
<DJones> daubers: What would you do about a radio then? I know you'd have live streaming, but could be bandwidth heavy for regular use
<daubers> DJones: I'd stick a DAB radio thing in it. Used to be able to get USB radios for ~Â£20-30
<DJones> Everybody will have to do that in about 5 years anyway when normal radio frequencies get turned off anyway
<DJones> Assuming it happens to plan
<daubers> Yup
<DJones> I would think the ideal would have built in sat-nav etc which is installed on teh device, rather than downloading maps all the time
<nperry> Not to sure if it would legal though, as police would class it as distracting you..
<DJones> I'm not too sure about that, a few cars have built in car-puters, and people put satnavs in as after market addons, I guess it would depend on how you were using it
<nperry> My aftermarket headunit has a bright blue led display, police pulled me over saying that they could see it when they were behind distracing them for driving...
<nperry> t/for/from
<nperry> Not to sure if it was an excuse to check my insurance etc, but they seem hung up on it..
<nperry> They didn't seem happy with me "go tell kenwood then, I just brought it"
<DJones> Is there anyway you can change the display? With things like tablet pc's you seem to be able to change backgrounds, change brightness etc so it shouldn't be as much of an issue
<nperry> You could change brightness and the timeout, so screen turns off after 5secs
<DJones> Right, not quite as simple with a dedicated unit I would guess
<nperry> But on-board computers stay on all the time and are bright in my brothers new astra..
<nperry> However it is at a funny angle, so that may be the soultion..
<nperry> I could might a joggler load ubuntu on and have it in my car though, would be very nice...
<nperry> t/might/have
<nperry> Man, this first coffe this morning hasn't kicked in yet...
<nperry> And our it deparment are annoying me :(
<DJones> Don't upset them, they might change all your passwords :)
<nperry> Our cisco phones are down, and they've got me to unplug it for 30seconds 3 times already... that isn't actually working...
<nperry> The normal "have you turned it off and back on again"
<daubers> nperry: Are they all down?
<DJones> Tell them its Cisco, _NOT_ Windows XP
<nperry> daubers: They are saying the asdl is down, but I'm on the internet... and we can call internally to off site but not got an external line.
<nperry> t/got/get
<nperry> God, I quit typing :(
<daubers> nperry: Sounds like a switching/routing issue
<bigcalm> Morning ya'll
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> Good morning one and all
<daubers> o/
<nperry> daubers: surely if routing was down, the internal calls (which go offsite to ho) will be.
<nperry> Morning :)
<wintellect> coffee time...
 * gord wonders how many replies of irssi are going to be sent to the mailing list ;)
<daubers> nperry: Depends where abouts the router with the issue is
<czajkowski> Alans are ye going to http://digitalsurrey.co.uk/events/IdentifyinginfluencersaspartofyoursocialmediastrategyDigitalSurreyevents.php
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer ^^
<popey> i wasn't planning on it
<bigcalm> Could anybody with ethernet over AC recomend products?
<popey> devolo
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Yes, I am.
<popey> I have 4 of them, work perfectly
<screen-x> morning :)
<popey> that was @ bigcalm
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: excellent see you there
<screen-x> bigcalm: anything that supports one of the homeplug standards
<bigcalm> popey: my dad is looking at making use of it and has asked me to comment on http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/powerline-home-networking/727_7090_70097_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html
<popey> yup, i have the white ones of those
<popey> 200Mb/s
<popey> you need at least two :)
<bigcalm> Indeedie :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes, planning to go I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: The beer is being sponsored by one of our customers :-)
<bigcalm> Damn you for being near London :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Spaces are restricted so you do need to book.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ahh didnt know you had to register
<AlanBell> just looking to see if I have
<daubers> bigcalm: devolo + 1
<AlanBell> how does one book? just email Abigail?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, or tweet @DigitalSurrey
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://twitter.com/#!/DigitalSurrey/status/5205955163721728
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: We will be adjourning to the Hop Blossom afterwards too :-)
<nperry> I use http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150039 bigcalm
<nperry> Works in a 150 year old house fine :)
<nperry> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/powerline-home-networking/727_7090_70097_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html
<nperry> Woops wrong button :/
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> My browser was slightly thin due to some other work. Just made it wider while on ebuyer. Instantly felt sick
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks
<czajkowski> AlanBell: reminders have been sent re speaking
<daubers> bah, need moar caffeine
<Ng> popey: are the eth-over-power things functionally equivalent to a piece of cat5? i.e. could you put a switch at each end and use the mains to brige the networks together? or is there some higher layer magic that means it's only suitable for plugging a host directly into
<daubers> Ng: Yup, thats how mines setup at home
<daubers> Ng: You can get some that are also switches too
<Ng> sweet, nice way to get a wired connection for a PC and an access point into a room with sucky wifi
<daubers> Ng: see http://www.ebuyer.com/product/233956 :)
<daubers> Ng: Mine gets t'interwebs to my xbox
<Ng> daubers: hey that's a pretty decent value offering, 70 quid for two :)
<DJones> daubers: Have you tried connecting a wireless access point to the switch at the end to improve wireless in the 2nd room
<daubers> Ng: Yup, it's the second thing on my list for xhristmas#
<daubers> urgh
<daubers> christmas even
<bigcalm> Xmas will do
<daubers> DJones: I did at one point and it was alright (even though the AP was a bit pants)
<bigcalm> I do like Futurama for renaming it to Xmas
<daubers> bigcalm: Just don't axe why! :p
<screen-x> DJones: http://solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av-pew.htm
<Ng> daubers: my parents refused to put cat5 in the walls when they bought their house and had to have every ceiling ripped out to remove asbestos and now they have *awful* wifi range, so all their PCs have stupid hacks like giant USB cables to get a usb wifi stick nearer to the AP. I aim to fix this one way or another and this looks like a great option :)
<Ng> so thanks :)
<Ng> daubers: how likely is doom and failure from multiple power circuits in the house?
<Ng> like, the upstairs and downstairs might not be connected?
<bigcalm> They all go to the same distrabution board
<bigcalm> The main thing is that it has to be on the same phase
<screen-x> Ng: I put them in my in-laws house which is extended, so has multiple loops, and they work at both ends.
<bigcalm> This means there is the danger of 3 doors down getting your LAN as well
<daubers> Ng: depends on the age of your house wiring I suppose
<daubers> bigcalm: You can encrypt them
<bigcalm> daubers: good
<daubers> Ng: You also have to be aware that if you plug them into an extension lead, they're rubbish
<bigcalm> Interesting
<daubers> bigcalm: Mine have a button on the bottom which does some form of automatic encryption
<Ng> daubers: ok thanks
<daubers> Heeheehee
<daubers> I love Latitudes descriptive phrases
<daubers> "Show stale friends"
<daubers> Apparentley popey and AlanBell are stale
<bigcalm> Heh
<gord> great, so it seems that ubuntu and windows are using different audio out ports to do different speakers for this 5.1 setup... thats not a pain and a headache at all :(
<popey> daubers: which email address do you have for me on latitude?
<nperry> daubers: I have got mine on an extension lead and get high speed connection between the two
<kaushal> hi
<popey> daubers: do I show up now?
<kaushal> popey: Thanks for the email
<popey> np
<kaushal> much appreciated
<popey> vnstat is really nice
<screen-x> vnstat :)
 * screen-x checks his vps has vnstat running
<popey> daubers: the reason I show as stale is because latitude on iphone isn't integrated into google maps, so I have to actively start latitude, which I don't do very often
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2010-November/235439.html  \o/ vnstat
<kaushal> popey: is there somesort of threshold which i can set and if certain parameters like packet loss and latency
<popey> kaushal: mtr?
<kaushal> and alert me in the form of email
<popey> nagios
<popey> or opsview
<popey> or opennms
<ian__> I have a problem trying to install my printer, in that I'm asked for my admin password and when I enter it, it says that the entry was incorect
<ian__> help
<popey> ian__: how are you adding the printer?
<popey> ian__: also, what make/model of printer
<daubers> popey: Yes you do :)
<ian__> with the disk provide
<daubers> popey: I just found the phrasing a bit funny :)
<ian__> lexmark impact s305
<popey> ian__: you shouldn't need the driver disk from the manufacturer
<ian__> ok
<ian__> then how do I add the printer
<ian__> please
<popey> ian__: are you running 32-bit or 64-bit Ubuntu?
<ian__> 32
<AlanBell> http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=product&segment=DOWNLOAD&productCode=LEXMARK_IMPACT_S305&locale=en&userlocale=DE#1
<popey> looks like someone has contributed a driver
<popey> http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Lexmark/Lexmark-S305
<popey> but it's not been reviewed yet
<ian__> thanks
<popey> ian__: is there an apple mac driver on the cd?
<ian__> yes
<popey> hmm
<popey> i have had some  success with my printer using the driver from the mac
<ian__> ok if one doesn't work I can try the other
<popey> i had to install it on a mac to unpack it though
<AlanBell> the lexmark website has drivers for Ubuntu 10.04 last updated on 16/11/2010
<popey> i didnt see that
<DJones> Didn't somebody mention that Lexmark had gone through a process of releasing drivers for linux for their complete range
<ian__> thank you, catch you all later
<popey> only fedora and opensuse
<DJones> ok
<AlanBell> the driver without jre is for 64bit only
<AlanBell> but the one with jre is i386 lexmark-inkjet-legacy-wJRE-1.0-1.i386.deb.sh.tar.gz
<popey> hmm, wonder why I cant see that at the link you gave AlanBell
<DJones> There is http://support.lexmark.com/index?page=content&productCode=LEXMARK_IMPACT_S305&actp=RECOMMEND&id=DR20547&segment=DOWNLOAD&userlocale=EN_US&oslocale=en_US&locale=en with an i386 .deb for up to 9.10
<popey> wheeeeeee
<AlanBell> click for linux downloads, then Printer Driver with JRE for Debian Package Manager based distros
<popey> new toy
<popey> nope, i dont see that, only suse and fedora
<popey> silly website
<daubers> popey: New toy?
<popey> ipad
<AlanBell> how odd, I see without JRE for debian based distros, with jre for redhat based, with jre for debian based
<czajkowski> popey: you should wrap that up adn put it away for xmas
<DJones> AlanBell: I see the same
<popey> its not an xmas pressie :)
<AlanBell> Q: how can you tell when someone has an iPad
<AlanBell> A: they tell you
<AlanBell> quoting one Alan Pope from Twitter
<popey> \o/
<popey> pretty sure it's "they show you"
<popey> http://friendfeed.com/popey/eea129d0/humphreybc-q-how-do-you-know-when-someone-has
<AlanBell> thats the one
<TheOpenSourcerer> And just think, it used to be all about Golf bores. Now it's iPad/Anything Apple bores... ;-)
<popey> :)
 * AlanBell loves freedom
 * popey loves functionality
<czajkowski> this discussion is suited to over beers
<DJones> I'm waiting for Apple to trademark a "mobile device viewing disablement system" called the iLid
<AlanBell> an excellent plan czajkowski
<czajkowski> I come up with some great plans :)
<popey> I have an htc hero with a PAYG sim in it, never used it to make a call, brand new. I have 3 missed calls
<popey> nobody knows the number
<popey> http://www.telepest.co.uk/01267+222640
<popey> they called me
<popey> http://www.telepest.co.uk/01267222640 rather
<DJones> Have you seen this page about that number http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01267222640
<popey> they're both showing much the same information - evil phone spamm0rs
<popey> what threw me is that the STD code is similar to one near me.. 01276 ~ 01267
<StudentSam> My university blocks outgoing SMTP connections, how can I circumvent this block so that I can send mail using Evolution?
<StudentSam> Sending email is quite important to a uni student.
<bigcalm> Use webmail
<directhex> golly, i wonder if StudentSam is the same as Samuel-NotAFK
<StudentSam> bigcalm: Webmail sucks.
<directhex> StudentSam: use your institution's SMTP server for all outgoing. it will likely require authentication
<AlanBell> StudentSam: send to an internal smtp server
<DJones> I had a couple from an indian call centre at the weekend for a "marketing survey", 1st time said I wasn't interested, 2nd time told themthe number was TPS registered & not interested and if they rang again I charged Â£150 to answer a survey, if they rang back they were accepting those conditions and could they give me an address to send the bill to.  They didn't ring back :)
<StudentSam> directhex AlanBell: That may work, I'll try it. Thanks. :)
<StudentSam> directhex AlanBell: I think the internal SMTP is only for staff at the uni. :(
<directhex> StudentSam: i doubt that
<StudentSam> "Outgoing port 25 (smtp) is blocked. This is to stop mail spammers."
<directhex> and 587?
<StudentSam> Maybe my Hotmail will work with 587
<directhex> hotmail doesn't need an smtp server. it's webmail.
<StudentSam> directhex: I think Evolution only supports port 25
<directhex> StudentSam: i doubt that
<kaushal> popey: is jsvnstat configurable for eth0 and eth1
<directhex> given i use evolution on all my machines, via a departmental server on a high port number, i'm pretty sure i didn't imagine the port number
<AlanBell> StudentSam: there will be instructions from the uni somewhere on how to set up a mail client
<AlanBell> the instructions for outlook express or whatever will contain the required information
<AlanBell> we are not going to be able to help further as we don't know the internals of your local network
<directhex> AlanBell: e.g. http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/nexus/email/clients.xml here
<directhex> which includes pine config, but not mutt
<popey> kaushal: yes
<davmor2> popey: you got unity on natty to work yet
<davmor2> popey: I lost window decs and all sorts
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> its not great
<popey> its on a spare laptop so i dont mind though :)
<davmor2> popey: yeah I'm having to run metacity --replace in terminal currently to get the laptop working properly :D
<davmor2> I was thinking of dropping maverick une on it and upgrading trying that way instead that or just whining at njpatel instead :D
<njpatel> i'm fixing the natty issues today, though I'd really wait 'till A1 is released :)
 * popey tickles njpatel 
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<czajkowski> davmor2: that's your one for the week
<davmor2> morning czajkowski what did I do to deserve that?
<czajkowski> It's monday I thought I'd be nice
<davmor2> czajkowski: going down hill from here then :)
<gord> time to put on some soothing jpop and pretend its the future or at the very least, not monday morning
 * njpatel sneezes for the 100th time
<gord> njpatel, are there periods of the year where you are without a cold? ;)
<njpatel> gord, there are, they're just few and far between
<njpatel> Canonical has kept me constantly poorly since joining 2.6 years ago
<X3N> oh, we recently passed 770 memebers in LP
<kaushal> popey: not sure how do i set it
<kaushal> I wanted to set both the interface
<kaushal> eth0 and eth1
<kaushal> settings.php under jsvnstat does not allow me to do that
<screen-x> Has anyone noticed the cli "paste" command doing weird things? It seems to be repeating sections of my input files, odd.
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I am using lightning under Thunderbird
<kaushal> is there a way to sync up available meeting rooms in lightning under TB ?
<kaushal> In outlook its there
<screen-x> kaushal: are rooms additional calendars that you can subscribe to?
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> screen-x: so i have to import it ?
<screen-x> kaushal: it was a question... I don't know how your calendaring system is setup, but if the rooms are represented as additional calendars, you should be able to subscribe to them as you would another person's calendar.
<kaushal> screen-x: basically we have setup meeting rooms
<kaushal> and its being seen on Microsoft Outlook Calendar
<kaushal> not sure how do i set it up on TB using lightning
<kaushal> screen-x: please give me a moment
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> things going well for people
<andylockran> loving my current setup :)
<daubers> andylockran: Get your raid thing going?
<neuro> we've been bought :P http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/broadcom-corporation-to-acquire-gigle-networks-inc-109862534.html
<neuro> looks like /me will have a new employer soon
<czajkowski> neuro: ello my dear
<neuro> why aye
<czajkowski> job going well ?
 * screen-x phoned up, waited in queue, then realised he'd called the wrong company!
<neuro> czajkowski: yeah, ta
<neuro> just waiting to hear what's happening now we've been acquired
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> hopefully all jobs will be uneffected
<daubers> Ooooooh
<daubers> Vue taking prebookings for Tron
<bigcalm> Oooo
<bigcalm> We have an odeon, so Wednesdays are busy time. We can go on a Friday or Saturday night and it be faily empty
<daubers> tempted to go at 00:01 on the 16th
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Novell-Agrees-to-be-Acquired-prnews-3497355694.html?x=0&.v=1
<screen-x> daubers: it will be cool, but sleep is cooler :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Novell also announced it has entered into a definitive agreement for the  concurrent sale of certain intellectual property assets to CPTN  Holdings LLC, a consortium of technology companies organized by  Microsoft Corporation, for $450 million in cash, which cash payment is reflected in the merger consideration to be paid by Attachmate Corporation.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably some bloody Linux patents in there. :-(
<directhex> i didn't think novell had many linux patents, but they have some powerful OIN stuff
<directhex> e.g. novell own patents on ecommerce
<directhex> owned...
<davmor2> directhex: mono?  Novell beat SCO on linux, etc, etc, etc
<daubers> screen-x: I saw Star Trek at that time, and it was worth it :)
<directhex> davmor2: unic xopyrights? dunno what MS would do with those
<directhex> i'd like to hear details from someone at novell
<davmor2> directhex: just full disclosure would be good :)
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Of course, those patents won't be valid in the UK :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Instead of 247, they'll soon be saying 302 :-) And going after Google/Oracle/RedHat/Canonical...
<gord> hrm, ethernet over power is being a bit underwhelming, as bad as my wifi so far
<directhex> i wonder if EoP works over PoO
<directhex> PoE
<gord> you could connect power over ethernet to an ethernet over power device and get unlimited energy?
<daubers> gord: What rate are you getting on it?
<gord> daubers, "not enough to stream hd"
<gord> i'll give it its own plug socket and see if that helps
<Laney> probably the wiring, get quite decent speeds on ours at home
<gord> eh its a fairly new house
<Laney> belkin summatorother
<screen-x> gord, "its own plug socket", you had it plugged into an extension lead?
<daubers> gord: Putting it on a clean socket (no extensions) really does help
<Laney> yeah ours are
<Laney> think its about 80 meg
<gord> i'm a nerd
<gord> plug sockets are in very short supply
<daubers> gord: Moar extension leads on the other socket :)
<daubers> 's what I did with mine
<screen-x> gord: EoP adapters with pass-through sockets with extensions plugged in :)
<gord> ah, you make the fundamental assumption that there are two sockets daubers :)
<gord> i have two sockets at the router, almost everywhere else in my house its single sockets
<screen-x> What I don't understand is why extension leads are so much worse than the split that must occur in the socket box?
<daubers> screen-x: Noise, you get all kinds of noise fed back from each appliance that's plugged in
<daubers> so a 4 way adapter might have 3x more noise than it being on a single thing
<kazade> I don't suppose anyone here can recommend me some cheap homeplug-style ethernet over power adaptors?
<screen-x> hmmm, need a power filter, like audio people use.
<screen-x> kazade: you seem to have hit the question of the moment.
<kazade> I remember seeing someone discussing it in here the other day.. which got me thinking about it :)
<screen-x> people were raving about devolo earlier
<daubers> devolo \o/
<screen-x> gord: has learnt that adapters with pass through sockets are useful ;-)
<screen-x> and I'll buy anything from solwise.co.uk because their website is teh awesomes.
<davmor2> screen-x: until you need to pull out the base adapter :)
<screen-x> davmor2: hopefully not a frequent occurrence
<davmor2> screen-x: You'll be surprised
 * daubers is looking forward to buying a house next year and (while then ebing overburdened with debt) being able to put structured cat 6 everywhere
<DaveMorris> daubers: thats what I did when I moved
<DaveMorris> spent the first day doing it
<daubers> DaveMorris: Based on some of the discount I get in the office, I'm considering whether it's worth laying a small amount of fibre. Just to critical places like what will become an office/workshop and so on :)
<DaveMorris> Daviey: http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/kvm-snapshot-backups-with-qemu-img/
<DaveMorris> On a related note, my feed doesn't appear to be coming through on planet.ubuntu-uk
<screen-x> daubers: install the fibre, then wait a while till you can afford the transceivers ;-)
<DaveMorris> cat6 will allow you to have your adsl modem/phone anywhere around the house
<daubers> screen-x: :p Admittedly they are a bit expensive at ~Â£500 a pop
<screen-x> daubers: yeah, but dark fibre is all the rage :p
<kazade> might get these: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160665
<daubers> screen-x: Exactley! Ii'd lvoe to have the ability to have 10GbE networking throughout my house
<DaveMorris> install one of these on your master socket http://solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters-faceplates.htm (ADSL-NTEFACE-SOL)
<TheOpenSourcerer> DaveMorris: That *is* interesting. Was wondering about the various ways to take backups of customers' VMs without stopping them first. Currently we run backup scripts from *inside* the vm, but this isn't quite the same...
<DaveMorris> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah I thought people would find it interesting
<DaveMorris> I've put that function into my backup script, just finished setting it up to run with a couple of VPNs this week, before I roll it out over all of them.  Not tried it with my Windows VM yet (only buildbot so I could just pause that domain)
<ball> daubers: I wouldn't mind plenum-rated Cat5e, but the trouble with buying a house is all the stuff you find out about /after/ buying the house
<ball> In our case the main beam of the house was broken, so that blew a few grand
<ball> ...then there's the plumbing and electric
<daubers> ball: My boss found out that someone had repaired the ceiling beams by replacing them with fence posts
<DaveMorris> oh yeah, allow a budget for things not working when you move
<daubers> ball: However, plumbing and electric should be easy as my old man was an electrician and my uncles a plumber :)
<dutchie> daubers: wow
<dutchie> fence posts
<daubers> I suspect I'll end up moving walls and stuff wherever I move
<daubers> dutchie: Yup
<daubers> He wondered why it sagged a bit
<daubers> took the floor up to look, and found fence posts
<dutchie> scary
<daubers> very
<DaveMorris> I re-wired my garage to take the constant load of my computers + power tools, found that the consumer unit had been wired backwards, with the neutral been on the single pole isolator
<daubers> heh
<ball> I know my house needs rewiring because none of my "grounded" outlets are and the wiring in the attic has fabric insulation.
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> ball: Excellent time to lay some structured network cableing then :)
<gord> moved plugs, didn't help
<MooDoo> hello all
<gord> i think everyone must be lying about their speeds, its the only reasonable conclusion
<daubers> gord: You have disabled the wlan? It's not stil routing over your wifi access?
<gord> i have
<daubers> That one got me for about 20 minutes the other week :(
<gord> it was the first thing that i did :P
<daubers> gord: You could try plugging it in closer to the router. See if it's speed goes up. Also, what brand/model are these?
<gord> plugging it closer to the router isn't really what i would call a solution ;)
<gord> devolo
<daubers> gord: No, but it would identify it being the EoP things are something else in the system
<daubers> s/are/or
<ball> daubers: I wouldn't want the Ethernet near the power cables and besides, I can't afford to run either.
<gord> daubers, well my wifi is faster and direct ethernet is faster, i wouldn't know how it could be something else :P
<daubers> ball: Ah. I just meant it's easier to do both if you already have the walls in bits to do one
<daubers> gord: In that case possibly so :) I blame however your house is wired
<daubers> I get ~180Mb/s across mine
<MartijnVdS> 5ghz++
<daubers> Saying that, going between the two circuits in the office, I only got 85Mb/s or so
<daubers> gord: Put fibre in your walls. That'll solve it :)
<daubers> gord: or! Ignore the fibre completley, ensure your router has LoS to your desk and just use a laser!
<ball> IrDA++
<daubers> gord: Or! If no LoS... get some mirrors!!!
<daubers> Easy this problem solving lark
<gord> i'm gonna blame the underperforming tech
<screen-x> BT HID is supported on iPhone4 & 3GS, but not 3G. Isn't supported on any version of android as far as I can tell :(
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> is there a way that two users logging onto the same server can both attach to the same screen ?
<daubers> -X I think
<daubers> andylockran: byobu seems to do it by default
<screen-x> I am the way
<daubers> andylockran: It's -x sorry :) lowercase not capital
<daubers> "-x   Attach to a not detached screen session. (Multi display mode).  Screen refuses to attach from within itself.  But when cascading multiple screens, loops are not detected; take care."
<screen-x> andylockran: man screen for the acl stuff
<daubers> screen-x: Lovely bug in the current version of screen according to the man page... "A weird imagination is most useful to gain full advantage of all the features."
<screen-x> :)
<gord> so yeah, i'm not one room away from the router, plugged directly into the mains and i'm getting 2.6mbit over this thing
<gord> this is awful
<bigcalm> Might be a different ring
<bigcalm> Or it might even be radial :(
<daubers> gord: Which devolo plugs have  you got?
<gord> iruno, 80mb ones
<daubers> Hmm.. your house must have really weird wiring (or something really noisy on that ring)
<DaveMorris> gord: you've not got anything special on your wiring?
<gord> there are plugs, some of these plugs have appliances, that is the extent of how special my wiring is
<gord> i'll play around with it more tonight, otherwise i'll return them
<DaveMorris> http://www.broadbandhomecentral.com/bbhl/homeplugconclusions.html
<ali1234> so before i went away i set "autospawn = no" in my ~/.pulse/client.conf and then forgot about it
<ali1234> because i was running pulseaudio manually to try to find the bugs
<ali1234> so when i returned i couldn't figure out why my sound now works perfectly
<ali1234> the only problem now is that i have to use alsamixer to set the volume
<gord> geez, it can't actually play back SD video either
<gord> hehe i couldn't play back sd video because i was downloading something from the internet, its like the 90's!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] KVM snapshot backups with qemu-img - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/kvm-snapshot-backups-with-qemu-img/
<andylockran> guys, can't get steam to load CSS on ubuntu 10.10 using wine.. any ideas where to look for help?
<gord> andylockran, #winehq ?
<gord> i think that is more for development though
<gord> the appdb page maybe?
<andylockran> After November 19 Game update by Steam, the game don't open any more. Also tested with Wine 1.2.1, don't work anymore.
<andylockran> nice
<andylockran> if I installed it last week it'd have been ok :p
<gord> oh thats a shame
<gord> i mean i hate that particular game and wish a thousand deaths upon it and the people that play it, but still, shame
<andylockran> I'm not a fan
<andylockran> just logged back into my steam account and realised I had it
<andylockran> prefer Battlefield, was more fun flying the plans
<andylockran> planes
<gord> only battlefield i ever played was the latest one, had hugely fun multiplayer. single player was awful but yeah i just played the multiplayer
<andylockran> same
<andylockran> can't stand playing it by myself
<andylockran> bf2 and 2042 were the two incarnations that I played
<gord> pretty much gave up on the whole gaming on linux thing though, seemed hopeful for a while once wine started getting good, but then all the progress sort of stopped. the one guy that was doing it stopped doing it ;)
<jacobw> i have an ip address (obtained from whatismyipaddress.com :s), i want to VNC in to this machine, i've set to requisite stuff in remote desktop preferences
<popey> opened the port on the firewall?
<jacobw> how can i test that i can actually connect to that ip address, i.e. that it isn't just NAT blackhole
<jacobw> popey, no i haven't, is that a step?
<popey> yes
<jacobw> ah :)
<jacobw> popey, have you got any more info on that? i keep hitting the same pages with google
<popey> http://portforward.com/
<jacobw> thansk
<ball> Will Ubuntu run inside VirtualBox?
<popey> yes
<ball> popey: Thanks
<AlanBell> ball: even with 3d graphics in the VM is possible
<ball> I'm surprised that's accessible from within the vM
<AlanBell> yup, it is very cool
<ball> Yeah, remind me not to press that button.
<awilkins> Ok, someone changed something in the last update and now my wifi light does "blinky blinky" during network traffic and that's REALLY annoying.
<awilkins> It's one of those bright blue ones and it's above the keyboard and close to the screen.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Fusion Garage GPL update - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/130174.html
<ball> popey: So it does! :-)
<ball> I'd best go and do some work.
<ball> Bye all!
 * awilkins reboots to see if it fixes das blinkenlight
<jacobw> is there such a thing as a hand free loud speaker than can record the calls it throughputs?
<jacobw> if not, there should be, so you can listen to calls where you've gone "yeah, yeah" because you were driving
<awilkins> Thank heavens for that, a reboot has fixed the blinky wifi light
<awilkins> AlanBell, Did you find respite for your VB6 ills?
 * davmor2 annoys czajkowski and then frolics in the autumn mist in a land called ........
<MooDoo> davmor2, narnia?
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski as he's feeling left out
<davmor2> hollowlee, hollowley, gallowley something like that
<liam_> anyone need help
<davmor2> liam_: normally best to ask your question so people can help you
<finelytuned> evening all
<liam_> finelytuned: hey
<MooDoo> hiya
<zleap> hello
<finelytuned> o/
<MooDoo> hello
<j0nr> ello
<j0nr> \join #ffmpeg
<j0nr> even
<j0nr> urgh... broken hands
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi oi
<MooDoo> czajkowski, ello darlin....prod prod :)
<danfish> evening
<popey> lo
<danfish> wibble, flump and blubber
<danfish> just a thought
<danfish> ooohh - new website idea - "thought for the day"
<danfish> ubuntu-uk website that is
<danfish> sorry, wifey's been having her nails painted by a friend in the living room. I'm feeling a bit off from the fumes :D
<zleap> whats wrong with the currnet ubuntu website ?
<MooDoo> zleap, nothing why?
<danfish> zleap: http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/
<zleap> oh for uibuntu-uk
<danfish> aye
<zleap> that looks like the viaduct they used in harry potter
<danfish> I rather think it is - it's on the famous Settle-Carlisle line
<danfish> the ribblehead viaduct IIRC
<zleap> ah cool
<danfish> used to go potholing near there in my youth
<danfish> I certainly wouldn't fit down any of those potholes now :/
<zleap> well there are plety of potholes in the roads round here
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Weekly Ubuntu Cloud Meeting And Q+A - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/22/weekly-ubuntu-cloud-meeting-and-qa/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Planet Ubuntu Facelift - http://popey.com/blog/2010/11/22/planet-ubuntu-facelift/
<popey> wheeee - recursive blog post!
<mgdm> \o/
<Azelphur> popey: is it all still drupal powered?
<popey> no, wordpress
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> I meant the ubuntu stuff not your site btw :p
<popey> oh, planet ubuntu? no thats planetplanet powered
<popey> not drupal
<AlanBell> nice screenshot
<dutchie> ooh, i think i found some diamond ore in minecraft
<popey> :) dutchie
<andylockran> howdy guys
<andylockran> how did the podcast go?
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<popey> well I think
<popey> and I'm not there :)
<andylockran> Now I've got my iPod back, I've got them downloaded and listening to them in the car
<popey> yay
<andylockran> Wasn't finding the time to fit them in at my PC recently.
<andylockran> Things ok with you popey - hopefully nothing extraordinary has kept you away from recording?#
<andylockran> or did you get lost in the space-time continuum of your recursive blog post...
<andylockran> posted my 3000th tweet without realising it today
<andylockran> nope, 4000th
<andylockran> night all.
 * Azelphur just bought a 2TB hdd
<Azelphur> damn you, mythtv.
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> dunno how you find that much on tv tbh ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha, I'll show you in a second, having a minor permissions problem though :(
<Azelphur> how do I set the last block of permissions? I know the first set is just +rwx, and the second set is g+rwx
<Azelphur> but what's the 3rd set?
<popey> w+
<popey> "world"
<Azelphur> w is write, I just found it on the ubuntu manpages it's o for other o.O
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's o, or I just use the numbers, eg 644, 755 etc.
<popey> hmm
<popey> why did i think it was w
<popey> need sleep, clearly!
<hamitron> numbers are easier than letters ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey 11:30.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Doesn't time fly when you having fun ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time for bed said zebedee.
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=9wYDmb29 yarr
<TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: They are for normal stuff, but I get a bit confused when trying to sgid for example.
<Azelphur> hamitron: that's how xD
<hamitron> Azelphur: Merlin and Dr Who... yes
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea doctor who is huge >.<, I have all of them, including the old ones (besides the missing ones)
<Azelphur> comes to well over 200GB
<Azelphur> lots of stargate too, around 150GB worth
<hamitron> I decided to delete stuff as i watch them now
<hamitron> a lot of it anyway
<Azelphur> I like to keep a collection, hdd space is cheap and MythTV makes it look so pretty
<Azelphur> it's nice for when people come over, I near enough always have something someone likes
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I'm a sucker for pretty dvd cases
 * TheOpenSourcerer might have to invest in a Revo soon - has that got enough grunt for MythTV?
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: yes but HD recording might be a problem
<Azelphur> and commercial flagging isn't really going to happen
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: are you planning on receiving a TV signal with it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> time I get round to there'll be quad core atoms with <1W TDP and clocked at 6Ghz I guess.
<Azelphur> (FreeSat, Freeview, that type of thing)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: Quite likely
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> then yea, MythTV is your best bet imo :)
<hamitron> is mythtv good for acting like a jukebox?
<Azelphur> I'd err on getting a real PC though to use as a backend
<Azelphur> It eats up HDD space, believe me I know
<Azelphur> hamitron: music? I've never really used it but it does do it
<hamitron> I've always felt it is overkill for music
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: it's better to have a proper card to recieve the TV signal instead of a USB device, and a real PC would open you up space to add more HDDs, so I'd say use a real PC as your backend if possible
<hamitron> so not tried it, but everything else is gay
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> so was going to code some of my own bits
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a nice new telly with built in apps (including BBc iPlayer) and a dlna client, but the broadcast recording is done on a failry cheap, but working freeview PVR.
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV?h=a39715 photos of my MythTV setup :)
<hamitron> is that a joystick on the keyboard?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice, ty and nn Azelphur (and everyone else)
<Azelphur> it's a trackball, mouse
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: nn :)
<hamitron> it is the method of input in the living room, that puts me off the most
<Azelphur> as you see I have a normal TV remote for it :)
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> that all works, was annoying as hell to make it work
 * popey sighs
<hamitron> but I want something to queue songs more, like a jukebox
<hamitron> and searching a lot of songs with a remote I could see as hassle
<hamitron> popey: I like to consider these things ;/
<popey> it was more your 'gay' comment
<hamitron> oh, :/
<hamitron> sorry
<hamitron> again
<Azelphur> popey++ there :)
 * Azelphur works with a few gay people who wouldn't approve
<hamitron> I have nothing against puffs though
<Azelphur> :)
<hamitron> just a general term everyone uses
<popey> oh jeez
<popey> now we're on 'puffs'?
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> what do you call them?
<popey> usually by their name
<hamitron> yeh, suppose I was refering to their kind, rather than any particular one though :/
<Azelphur> Speaking of gay people, reminds me of my friend, he was doing a paid job to skin some weapons in CS:S. The guy who was employing him turned out to be a raging homophobe, so he did the skin to spec, but made it pink and covered with rainbows.
<Azelphur> was hilarious :D
<dutchie> this is so politically incorrect it is painful
<Azelphur> the guy got so mad, we was all laughing (He didn't scam the guy, it was payment upon completion so he never got paid, it was purely for the laughs)
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> worth it :D
<hamitron> dutchie: low pain threshhold?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> but yeh Azelphur, just the input is my worry
<hamitron> and ease to find songs quickly
<Azelphur> don't get that keyboard, it's horrible
<hamitron> I'm not a ball kind man
<hamitron> kinda ;/
<Azelphur> it looks cool but in practice it continually drops out and the mouse is really dodgy and it's impossible to type on
<hamitron> maybe some addictional touch screen device
<Azelphur> hamitron: I always wanted a touch screen remote, never found anything price worthy that fitted the bill though
<hamitron> yeh, there are 4 rooms to kit out with it :/
<hamitron> could get scarey expensive
<ali1234> what would be a good frontend for mythtv on a touchscreen device?
<ali1234> i mean the regular frontend barely supports mouse...
<hamitron> I wasn't thinking just mythtv
<hamitron> more what I want, then find the software to fit
<hamitron> or adapt/make
<hamitron> tbh, probably not that hard to make it using a few different libs
<hamitron> as I can design it strictly for just how I'd want to use it
<hamitron> suppose a frontend for that music database backend may be best still
<dutchie> oh dear
<dutchie> i have hit some sort of key combination
<hamitron> :\
<dutchie> and compiz has gone into crazy zoom mode
<dutchie> and i can't get out
<dutchie> aha
<dutchie> free
<hamitron> super and a mouse button?
<hamitron> don't ask me what super is (apart from me ofc ;)
<dutchie> super and scroll wheel
<dutchie> except scroll wheel is middle mouse button + trackpoint
<hamitron> super is the penguin key?
<dutchie> well, windows key
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> could bring myself to say it :/
<hamitron> couldn't*
<hamitron> although my latest cheap keyboard looks like the flag of St. George more
<hamitron> reckon I may colour it so
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-23
<hamitron> time for coffee to feed the brain for the task of tackling spam email, brb
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu IRC Council - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/11/23/ubuntu-irc-council/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-irc-council
<screen-x> morning early people :)
<shauno> grunt.
<shauno> rather annoying when I can't seem to find seemingly simple things on google.  gasm's comment delimiter did a pretty good job of evading me
<AlanBell> morning all
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning everyone.
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> morning
<AlanBell> anyone want the donttellbill.com domain?
<DJones> AlanBell: Who was the Bill in the domain name?
<AlanBell> we did a little marketing campaign a few years ago around it, but we didn't take it very far
<AlanBell> http://donttellbill.com/
<DJones> Ah, I was thinking along the line of the British Gas Sid campaign
<AlanBell> yeah, based on that
<AlanBell> free software is great, but shh, don't tell Bill
<DJones> Ah, I see
<DJones> I would have though redirecting to your main website would have been a good idea just in case anybody still has it as a saved link
<DJones> Stupid windows security, You don't have an antivirus protection enabled, YES I do, its running, ok, I'll pause protection & re-enable, Oh, I do have an Antivirus running now
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have http://dont-tell-bill.com too which auto renewed for 2 years quite recently.
 * DJones Has a penny thats just dropped, Bill = Bill Gates .... Doh
<AlanBell> this one is expiring soon
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks DJones probably needs more coffee
<DJones> 2nd cup of the day, about to get 3rd
<AlanBell> DJones: well some people might leap to that conclusion of course, but it wasn't us that said it :)
<DJones> :)
<AlanBell> Bill is just a fictional character, like Sid
<DJones> To quote Francis Urquat, You couldn't possibly comment :)
<AlanBell> quite
<DJones> Have your Streak's been updated to Froyo yet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Nope. They released one for the unlocked devices first. And TBH it sounds like a pile of steaming poo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://android.modaco.com/content/dell-streak-streak-modaco-com/323607/buglist-and-peculiarities-on-official-2-2-froyo/
<nigelb> AlanBell: hahahahhahaha, funny site :)
<DJones> Not good then, Must admit I'm impressed with 2.2 on my Desire HD, although still seems to be occasional issues with the Calendar hammering the battery
<TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: Yeah - I think it Dell, rather than Froyo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ohh it's getting closer: http://android.modaco.com/content/dell-streak-streak-modaco-com/323860/eu-00-froyo-is-live/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm getting tempted to have a go and install this one instead: http://android.modaco.com/content/dell-streak-streak-modaco-com/322298/streakdroid-froyo-v1-4-2-announcement-thread/
<DJones> Sounds like its still a bit buggy looking at the couple of comments on that page
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<DJones> I've had more system updates in 3 weeks with this HD & 2.2 than I had in 18 months with a HTC Magic
<DJones> May sound a lot, but it was only one update :)
<hoover> good morning folks
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> morning daubers
 * daubers makes the tea
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes for coffee #3
 * DJones drinks coffee #3
 * AlanBell goes for #2
<AlanBell> err, coffee #2, not a #2 you  understand
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<danfish> good day :)
<nigelb> popey: poke?
<danfish> my mad scientist plan is to create a genetically modified infant with an inbuilt logging system. That way you can run a query along the lines of dmesg | grep "whydidyouwakeup6timesduringthenight" :(
<MartijnVdS> danfish: that's a reboot loop, dmesg won't help there
<daubers> danfish: But you _know_ the answer would be "because you weren't there"
<MartijnVdS> danfish: you'll need a serial port and log from there
<danfish> daubers: true
<danfish> MartijnVdS: nah - inbuilt wifi
<gord> "Subject: 	Thank you for your recent [e-mail address removed]" - No problem [company name redacted]!
<MartijnVdS> gord: are you reading the SCP wiki again? :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/
<gord> MartijnVdS, nope, just my normal run of the mill email, just that my email is top secret
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] The Ubuntu UK Christmas Party - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/11/23/the-ubuntu-uk-christmas-party/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-ubuntu-uk-christmas-party
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> o/
<popey> nigelb: hmm?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> lo
<bigcalm> My Father's laptop has bitten the dust. Time to school him on what makes for a new good laptop
<popey> macbookpro
<bigcalm> <= 500?
<bigcalm> Â£
<andylockran> morning folks
<nigelb> popey: Do you have access to the fridge calender? Diwic wanted some help
<nigelb> (basically, a meeting added isn't showing on the frige calender for some reason though it was accepted)
<gord> <gord> http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2 <-- can anyone manage to download the RT2860PCI/mPCI/CB/PCIe(RT2760/RT2790/RT2860/RT2890) option from there? every time i try i get a weird file that bunzip can't handle (even though its a tar.bz2)
<gord> had to re-say that because my wifi has gone crazy and need that file to fix ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: what does "file blah.tar.bz2" say?
<diplo> grabbing a tar now, will check it opens shortly
<gord> ah there we go, its a gz
<DJones> gord: Its downloaded for me on windows & I've been able to unzip it
<gord> thanks MartijnVdS
<diplo> Same issue, as you
<diplo> ah
<diplo> :D
<DJones> gord: Do you want me to .zip it and upload it somewhere so you can download it
<DJones> Or at least .rar it
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] OverView Zoomy presentations with OpenGL - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/11/23/overview-zoomy-presentations-with-opengl/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=overview-zoomy-presentations-with-opengl
<popey> bigcalm: thinkpad
<DJones> popey: Where is good for cheap laptops now, I seem to remember you suggesting somewhere for thinkpads a few weeks back
<screen-x> DJones: sterlingxs?
<bigcalm> Do tinkpads still have nipples?
<MartijnVdS> even my Dell has one
<screen-x> bigcalm: They seem to have both.
<DJones> screen-x: Thanks, they seem to have pretty limited stocks at the minute
<bigcalm> My Dell lacks a nipple
<screen-x> I quite liked the trackpoint on my thinkpad, but I don't miss it much on other laptops.
<directhex> my dell is nipply
<MartijnVdS> I hate my dell.. it's too plastic
<MartijnVdS> and clunky
<czajkowski> next laptop I buy is going to have a long long long batery! and be light!
<czajkowski> not asking for much am I
<czajkowski> oh and not cost a fortune
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: and a pony
<screen-x> MBA 11, though that doesn't fit your last criteria...
<czajkowski> right dentist time
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: good luck
<nigelb> czajkowski: You need a zareason
<screen-x> I played with one the other day, I haven't picked up a small laptop that is so difficult to bend before.
<screen-x> nigelb: I like the ubuntu key :)
<nigelb> screen-x: That I LOVE!
<nigelb> And the tux stickers
<shauno> random question time!  what'd be the easiest way to get apache to accept a http post on any url (existent or not), and store the contents somewhere?
<popey> DJones: sterlingxs
<popey> oh, someone got it
<popey> czajkowski: mbp
<DJones> popey: I had a look there, they seemed to be pretty much out of stock of everything at the minute
<DJones> Just looking through the links from nakedcomputers
<popey> i can't see myself buying anything other than apple laptops in the future tbh, maybe thinkpad, maybe something else if I become a tramp and run out of money
<MartijnVdS> Sonys are nice
<MartijnVdS> they're the most apple-y non-apple laptops I've seen
<MartijnVdS> *pets his Vaio 13"*
<popey> nah, sony are off the list, have been for years
<shauno> that reminds me of the 'just like a Golf' adverts
<directhex> really want an alienware
<diplo> From my experience, especially older sonys they seem to be noisey and hot
<popey> and made of cheap plastic
 * diplo running a old ( 3 years ) one now and it sucks
<MartijnVdS> popey: why? they used to suck, I agree, but the current models (especially the intel-only ones) are really nice
<diplo> runs @ 60 normally, open anything slightly demanding it hits 90/95 and fans go mad
<directhex> alienware m11x is what i'd like
<directhex> if it were up to me
<directhex> 11" netbook with an i7 and a geforce
<shauno> I really fancy one of the new macbook airs, but it's gotta wait until I've got a desktop
<shauno> my current laptop fits the 'desktop replacement' category, the MBA doesn't really
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Why I can't have an electric car - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2010/11/23/why-i-can-t-have-an-electric-car
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/lunchtime-special?hpb=1
<popey> 160 quid for a ps3
<daubers> popey: Shame they're built by sony really
<czajkowski> popey: eh no :)
<czajkowski> results from dentist: I need to have my wisdom tooth removed
<czajkowski> balls
<nigelb> ouch
<screen-x> :(
<daubers> czajkowski: Nasty
<daubers> czajkowski: Also, sounds expensive
<czajkowski> I am less than impressed
<nigelb> hilarious responses to popey's "what to put in my car"
<nigelb> Copies of "Art of Community" for fuel :p
<popey> :)
<popey> http://www.dicecollector.com/JM/
<diplo> czajkowski, had one of mine out the other day, bar for a bit of uncomfortableness for a few days it wasn't *to* bad
<diplo> And i hate going to the dentist with a passion
<czajkowski> I can either get it done under local or general
<nigelb> Who doesn't? ;)
<czajkowski> I'm tempted to go generall
<nigelb> general++
<diplo> I did general a year or so ago, this time i did local
<diplo> Worse part of general was that I felt groggy as hell for 2-3 days after
<diplo> Couldn't really work
<diplo> You have to get someone to bring you home as well
<DJones> People always tell me never to have a general for wisdom teeth, the dentist can be a bit rougher than if the patient is awake
<czajkowski> :o
<shauno> hm, adding a static eth0 made my nm-applet disappear :(
<DJones> czajkowski: I'm not trying to put you off, isn't there somebody who works at a dental practice who uses the channel, they maybe a better person to ask
<DJones> They were working on openmolar
<DJones> (I think)
<davmor2> czajkowski: you been to the dentist
<czajkowski> DJones: problem is I'm a really really bad patient with a dentist, I've bitten 2 dentists when I was a kid
<czajkowski> davmor2: I went!!
<davmor2> czajkowski: and
<czajkowski> davmor2: infection o  widsom tooth coming down, no more room for it to come down, so caused nerves in my jaw to lock up. Need tooth removed.
<DJones> czajkowski: My wife is like that, she has a dairy intolerance and had soya milk as a kid, which was heavily sweetened to hide the bad taste, took all most of the enamal off her teeth so they rot quite quickly, when she had fillings the dentist didn't let the anastetic take effect and drilled on nerves & ignored her trying to stop her, she stopped going, eventually went again but had to have sedation just for an examination
<nigelb> popey: Is it just me or is width of etherpad sort of messed up?
<czajkowski> nigelb: click button far right toi make it a full page
<czajkowski> DJones: I look after my teeth from fear of the denitist I had braces as a kid
 * nigelb hugs czajkowski 
<nigelb> czajkowski: That worked :)
<DJones> czajkowski: She's just started to let a new dentist we've got do work, just had fillings & although nervous, just had normal treetment, no sedation :)
 * popey points nigelb to Daviey 
<Daviey> oops
 * nigelb feels pointed out
 * nigelb also notes that Daviey broke the default option of being full window or something
<nigelb> Whatever, another reason to #blameDaviey
<Daviey> I had a patch to make it go full screen some months ago... can't find the damn thing now, and now finding it a PITA to recreate.
<Daviey> nigelb: it was never default to fullscreen... but i WANT to add that
<Daviey> (patches welcome)
<nigelb> Daviey: meh, Java.
<davmor2> nigelb: no you #blamepopey popey then picks on Daviey till it's fixed
<Daviey> nigelb: actually.... that part isn't
<nigelb> davmor2: oh, that's a nice strategy
<Daviey> it's JS :)
<nigelb> Daviey: JS?
<czajkowski> it's a winning combination
<nigelb> I'd love to :)
<nigelb> Daviey: can you edit css for body?
<nigelb> if so just add a class and it will work I think ;)
<Daviey> nigelb: if only
<Daviey> server side JS!
<nigelb> Daviey: dammit.  Need to see code :(
 * nigelb goes to branch from google whatever
<nigelb> github = awesomeness!
<nigelb> Daviey: Can you point out some starter of where to look?
<Daviey> nigelb: grep for fullscreen :)
<nigelb> gah, its still branching
<nigelb> I'm looking at github's web thingy
<nigelb> hrm, .ejs is java?
<popey> Heh, Enterprise JavaScript! :D
<nigelb> Daviey: I have a one patch for you
<nigelb> popey: haha
<Daviey> nigelb: shoot it over
<nigelb> Daviey: its not a patch, but I'll tell you what to change so that it fixes
 * nigelb sends a PM
<Daviey> nigelb: patch pls :)
<nigelb> Daviey: GAH :D
<Daviey> nigelb: or better, a git tree i can pull from :)
<nigelb> Daviey: meh, patched already
<nigelb> Daviey: Link to patch PM'd, go fix it and let me have the satisfaction of having made the world a better place :p
<Daviey> pah
<Daviey> nigelb: you could put it somewhere i could wget the .patch
<nigelb> Daviey: lazy :p
<nigelb> Daviey: lemme put it on my people.ubuntu.com
<Daviey> nigelb: applied :)
<nigelb> Daviey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nigelbabu/daviey.patch
<nigelb> GAH
<Daviey> nigelb: lol
<nigelb> It works \o/
<Daviey> nigelb: if you propose it for fixing in the mainline on github, i should be able to commit it
<nigelb> I'm doing that now :)
<Daviey> nigelb: give me a shout when you have put the pull request in
<andylockran> \o
<nigelb> Daviey: \o/ Do I hold the record for the fastest bug fix yet? :p
<Daviey> nigelb: maybe :)
<nigelb> Note to self: Any $blameDaviey ends up with me fixing the bug.
<andylockran> crikey - just seen Korea on the news
<Daviey> lol
<davmor2> nigelb: told you #blamepopey :P
<nigelb> davmor2: lol
<Daviey> nigelb: not seeing the pull request..... you lose the prize for fastest resolution
<Daviey> :((
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11815001
<czajkowski> AlanBell: 16 of us that went to college togehter are now left ireland
<czajkowski> sad :(
<czajkowski> train us up and ship us out
<directhex> escaped a sinking ship!
<hoover> re: korea... time to fire up falcon 4 allied force again ;-)
<bigcalm> L-l-l-l-l-l-l-unch time!
<shauno> I wish :/
 * daubers beats some scripts to death with a stick
<shauno> should it be a bug if a package fails --configure (leaving dpkg to believe it's broken) if your system doesn't match a hard-coded IP?
<DJones> Yay...Public holiday announced for 29th April 2011
 * DJones makes note in diary & wonders whether it'll be warm enough for a BBQ
<bigcalm> Long weekend :)
<bigcalm> Will Charlie get any time on the throne before William takes over?
<DJones> Not if his mother has anything to say about it :)
<bigcalm> Does Queenie actually not him to be king?
<bigcalm> +want
<DJones> She probably does, but she looks like she'll outlast him
<czajkowski> I thought that was a done deal once he married his mistress he'd never be king it would go straight to william
<danfish> DJones: that makes it a 3 day week :D
<AlanBell> czajkowski: nope, the impression was that she would not take the title of Queen
<AlanBell> but he could be king, with princess consort Camilla
<DJones> czajkowski: Thats certainly been rumoured amongst conspiracy theorists, but I doubt it
<AlanBell> but there was a stumbling interview last week which has been interpreted by the press to be a change on that
<czajkowski> DJones: doesnt really bode well, cheat on your wife for years publically, mdivorce her, she dies, marry mistress and become king...
<AlanBell> personally I think he finds discussion of the succession to be in rather poor taste and just fumbled in the interview
<shauno> understandable.  it pretty much translates to "what do you want to do when your mum dies", which would be grossly offensive in any other context
<DJones> czajkowski: True, but then again, how many wives did King Henry have :)
<czajkowski> DJones: different times,
<AlanBell> shauno: exactly
<czajkowski> DJones: also, everyone in most counteries loved  princess di
<czajkowski> how many feel that way about camilla
<DJones> :)
<DJones> No comment
<czajkowski> and she's not his mum either
<czajkowski> oh wait nm
<czajkowski> wrong son
<danfish> DJones: beheading your wives is now considered increadibly bad manners these days ;)
<DJones> danfish: Thats unfair, I was thinking about sharpening my axe
 * DJones looks around to make sure his wife isn't in the channel
<danfish> hah
<shauno> I don't think the divorce thing should really be an issue.  it's not a standard we hold anyone else to.
 * danfish notes that the Â£80 million cost of the wedding will be met by the public purse
<danfish> mind you, it would be a bit of an ask on the bride's parents
<daubers> danfish: We'll probably make it back though
<daubers> danfish: Once you take in account all the oddbods who'll take a holiday to be in London when it happens and all that malarky, I think we'd get that 80mill+ a bit back into the old economy
<DJones> danfish: We only get to pay for the security & transport costs
<DJones> The families are paying for the wedding itself, I wonder if they have to pay a fee to use Westminster Abbey though?
<danfish> daubers: prob true
<popey> anyone here got an ebay account?
<danfish> DJones: unlikely - the Queen is the head of the church that owns the abbey
<danfish> popey: yup
<popey> someone in another channel just pointed out that they seem to ignore the case sensitivity of the first character
<popey> (which many people will capitalise to use as their 'mixed case' password)
<Azelphur> popey: yea I do
<popey> try it :)
<popey> try logging on with the first character of your password in the wrong case
<popey> I cant because my password starts with a number :)
<Daviey> hak da planet
<daubers> popey: ha, WFM :)
<danfish> popey: bug(?) confirmed
<Azelphur> popey: seems to not be case sensative at all
<AlanBell> yup, not case sensitive
<bigcalm> Just the 1st character?
<popey> seems so
<bigcalm> Odd
<Azelphur> no, the entire thing isn't case sensative
<Azelphur> I tried altering the case of my password all over and still got in
<AlanBell> me too
<popey> OH
<popey> just tested that too
<AlanBell> I would say it is intentional
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> reduces security a bit, and reduces problems from people who leave caps lock on a lot
<bigcalm> One of my client's sites drops the case on passwords entered as well. Quite depressing
<hoover> hello bigcalm
 * daubers puts the kettle on
 * popey puts Blondie on
 * popey considers recording a couple of screencasts
<Daviey> to the theme of "Denie, Denie"
<daubers> popey: "How to sing like Blondie into a hairbrush"?
 * screen-x digs out the XSLT book
<directhex> daubers: wonder if singstar microphones work on loonicks...
<daubers> heh, they're just USB mics aren't they?
<AlanBell> the PS2 ones are just audio mics with a 3.5mm jack, the dongle is a dual input usb soundcard of some sort
<screen-x> This dead tree seems to auto-close itself when I look up, I need a paper version of a bookmark, a real bookmark!
<screen-x> sounds like a job for... yesterday's train ticket
<daubers> screen-x: Or a shoe
 * DJones suggests a finger
 * gord suggests scanning in all the pages, using OCR to extract the text and convert into your favourite document format
<davmor2> njpatel: an interesting thing happen yesterday I went to disable the unity plugin in ccsm to find out it already was,  so it's definitely compiz at fault
<njpatel> davmor2, interesting, did you see if the window decorations plugin was enabled?
<njpatel> davmor2, in the upgrade some of the settings might have been lost
<davmor2> njpatel: the decor was in the disabled pile
<davmor2> njpatel: I moved them all over to the enabled side but to no avail.
<njpatel> yeah, so I'd recommend enabling: decor, place, move, composite, opengl, static switcher, at least
<njpatel> davmor2, "enabled side"?
<njpatel> your using "compizconfig-settings-manager"'s ccsm?
<davmor2> njpatel: Yeah for the plugins you have the disabled side and the enabled side under manage plugins
<davmor2> njpatel: when you enable unity it shows up in the main window
<njpatel> huh, interesting,
 * njpatel never knew that
<davmor2> njpatel: yeap Preferences -> Plugin list
<DJones> On a laptop thats previously had nvidia drivers installed, if I want to test the nouveau driver, should I just uninstall all nvidia graphics (nvidia-96 I think) and will that remove the blacklist nouveau from  /etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-graphics-drivers.conf
<davmor2> njpatel: Yay! unity
<njpatel> sweet!
<davmor2> njpatel: I was missing the opengl one after I moved the others across last night
<njpatel> riight
<njpatel> it's a slightly weird thing about compiz that you can start it up and it can be completely useless
<czajkowski> you don't say
<czajkowski> :)
<andylockran> I am absolutely loving the latest vanilla install of maverick
<andylockran> I normally just apt-get upgrade from old versions
<andylockran> but a re-install is quite different
<daubers> Noooooo!!!!
<daubers> my tea went cold :(
<andylockran> that's a shame..
<bigcalm> Down it in one and then make a fresh mug
<andylockran> I do that far too much when I'm coding
<MooDoo> hello all
<bigcalm> I find that my mugs never hold enough tea
<daubers> Sat debugging at the moment, got involved and now I need a fresh mug of tea :(
<bigcalm> daubers: do you have an underling to get you one?
<MooDoo> AlanBell, are you around
<AlanBell> for a minute or two
<MooDoo> AlanBell, can i be picky
<AlanBell> yes
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell - could leave a short testimonial below?   but all of them are above?  or am i reading it wrong
<AlanBell> reading it wrong!
<MooDoo> ah ok i'll shut up :)
<AlanBell> it is a new testimonials section, as yet empty for the IRCC thing
<MooDoo> ah ok
<MooDoo> sorry :)
<AlanBell> s'ok
<AlanBell> not sure how to fix that emptyness though . . .
<dutchie> AlanBell: leave an obviously empty one?
<dutchie> by which i mean an example
<dutchie> brain is fried
<daubers> bigcalm: Nah, I'm too nice for that
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo 
 * dutchie needs an underling
<dutchie> they should bring back the days when poor students had to be the others' slaves at oxbridge
<MooDoo> czajkowski, oi that wasn't nice
<czajkowski> I get to wipe a Mac and install Ubuntu on it
<czajkowski> yay
<andylockran> wahey
<andylockran> I have a mac keyboard for use with my Ubuntu machine - win!
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I thought you'd be fully in the debian/kde camp by now ;-)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, prod.......:p
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: only 1 debian person in here good few KDE and one BSD
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo 
<dutchie> andylockran: only mac keyboard i have used is horrible
<dutchie> it is about 7 years old though
<andylockran> This is one of them aluminium ones
 * DJones takes czajkowski's sharp pointy toys away & replaces them with a squishy, padded toay
<DJones> s/toay/toy
 * czajkowski sulks 
 * czajkowski prods DJones oi no fun 
<DJones> Ow
<czajkowski> see stabbing is better
<DJones> czajkowski: Perhaps you need one of these http://www.urbancombat.us/store.html
<MooDoo> czajkowski, not liking you at the moment *pout*
<xteejx> Afternoon all! :)
<andylockran> hwody xteejx
<xteejx> I think empathy is playing games again, people not appearing in the users list :S
<xteejx> andylockran: PS Hi :)
<MooDoo> lets hope sabdfl has a open house warming party :) - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/23/shuttleworth_superior_ink/
<xteejx> Note this isn't spam guys, but I'm thinking of releasing this 9 second parody in the Ubuntu blogosphere somewhere, can some peeps give me a yay or nay on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO18iUpgvQ PS I'm not worried about being flamed by MS users at all
<xteejx> $31.5million??? Sod the house warming, let's hope that he start dishing out money ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] LibreOffice: Document Foundation Steering Committee Public Phone Conference 28-Nov-2010 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-document-foundation-steering-committee-public-phone-conference-28-nov-2010
<DJones> And thats only a weekend home, isn't his offical residence in The Isle of Man
<czajkowski> MooDoo: diddums
<MooDoo> czajkowski, stab stab stab :p
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you will lose
<xteejx> So he's from South Africa but lives over here? Not surprised Canonical's Head Office is in Millbank
<MooDoo> czajkowski, try me :p
<czajkowski> davmor2: sort your partner in crime out
<xteejx> as long as there's no more student loan increases :P
<MooDoo> davmor2, she's not scaring me today!
<davmor2> czajkowski: why you started it :P
 * xteejx pulls up a chair and grabs some popcorn
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'd worry if I were you czajkowski has to let her fear angry out on someone (Dentists who needs them.....oh yeah)
<MooDoo> davmor2, last visit to the dentist i had 3 wisdom teeth out, so pah! she don't scare me :p
 * DJones joins xteejx with a chair& gets a large back of Minstrels (other chocolate is available)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you say that now just wait
<xteejx> DJones: I'll have a bar of Galaxy if you're offering :D
<czajkowski> yeah wait till the pain killers and antibiotics dont work and I get mad
<DJones> xteejx: Sorry, I just ate that & fnished off the rest of the chocolate
<xteejx> Damnit!
 * MooDoo ruffles czajkowski hair.....awwwww
 * czajkowski takes all your chocolate and gives it away, if I can't have any you can't either 
<MooDoo> czajkowski, being nice for a moment [don't worry it won't last], are you settling into your new job?
<davmor2> MooDoo: What won't last you not being scared of czajkowski
<MooDoo> davmor2, me being civil to czajkowski
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm thankful i'm uunable to make the christmas party though, might get a slapping lol
<davmor2> I think I'll be in the middle of unpacking at that time so probably won't make it
<davmor2> we see what I can swing though
<MooDoo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/kinect-ubuntu-jedi-obviously/ :)
<BigRedS> I arranged to be working from London the week of teh christmas do :)
<BigRedS> ...but i've since been asked it, since i'm working 'from home', I can be in Dorset the monday and tuesday...
<gord> hrm, i need some sort of nerdy lamp for my home office, i gets dark whilst i'm working at this time of year... maybe a usb one that i can automatically brighten as sunset approaches!
<diplo> I've got a usb lamp but it's just a switch on and off
<Ng> gord: build an arduino thing to control a normal dimmer switch!
<gord> Ng, you think too small, an arduino controlling one of those lego things that you can control via usb to manually turn a real dimmer switch via some sort of grabber hand!
<Ng> that seems prone to unexpected failure ;)
<gord> which is why you build lego units around arudino's powered by solar power charged batteries to function as "helper droids" to right any unexpected wrongs
<gord> course they are gonna need to employ some sort of learning process...
<Phineas> hi guys
<Phineas> somthing is wrong with my other laptop
<MooDoo> Phineas, that doesn't help lol  :)
<Phineas> i think it's the HDD
<MooDoo> Phineas, why you think that
<Phineas> because it makes 'squeeking' noises (i have a vid on youtube of it if you want a link) on startup and wont boot
<Phineas> MooDoo,  want a link to i vid of it (atempting) to boot
<Phineas> *a
<Phineas> ?
<MooDoo> Phineas, no, but if it's squeeking, something isn't right, does it still squeek if you use a live cd and try to get onto the hdd's filesystem?
<gord> sounds like a bad battery connection
<gord> it won't boot because there isn't enough power to boot i'm guessing
<Phineas> MooDoo,  i think it has bad berings
<Phineas> sounds like theres a mouse in it
<Phineas> typical toshiba laptop
<Phineas> gord,  more like a sqeeking mouse (loud) made me say in the vid "holy s**t"
<Phineas> what could have gone wrong also it gives "int test: FAIL" or something like that
<Phineas> any ideas
<diplo> Anyone here used clonezilla to backup a server and then restore it under KVM ? If so was it an easy process
<diplo> Linux server to be backed up, CentOS 4.*
<Phineas> anyone knows whats wrong Tosh
<Phineas> *wrong with
<diplo> Had a look at SMART ? see if it's noticing any issues with the drive ?
<diplo> Log files
<Phineas> BRB guys
<diplo> Quite often get disc errors wrote to /var/log/messages when they start failing
<Phineas> diplo, i can't even get the laptop to boot (just squeels at me). i even made a video on youtube asking for help on what the heck is going on
<diplo> As MooDoo said, can you boot from cd rom live disc ?
<diplo> if you can't get that far it sounds like a hardware fault somewhere along the line, if it's a battery issue you can try booting up without the batt in and just run it off mains instead
<diplo> worth a try anyhoo
<davmor2> Phineas: try booting from the live cd if that fails it could be that the boot sector has become corrupted, try removing the HDD and booting from the live cd then
<diplo> my lift has just turned up so gotta go
<Phineas> diplo, yes live cds do boot (with HDD squeeling at me every few secconds)
<Phineas> davmor2,  ^^^
<AlanBell> Phineas: I think a new HDD is what you need
<davmor2> Phineas: right so try taking the HDD out to double check that it is only the HDD.  With the Hdd out if there is no noise then you hardware is good and you just need a new HDD
<Phineas> davmor2,  no HDD noise is gone (possable that the HDD has bad berrings)
<davmor2> Phineas: yeap which will mean it is not spinning straight and will also mean that the disc is getting slow more corrupted new drive
<Phineas> davmor2,  doesn't even want to boot (i have a vid of it trying to boot if you want a link) strangley
<Phineas> davmor2,  like you said time for a new HDD. is the HDD replaceable on the laptop
<Phineas> ?
<AlanBell> Phineas: yes, easy
<davmor2> Phineas: Yeap you just need a 2.5 inch hdd, and you need to know if it is sata or pata
<AlanBell> just don't drop any screws
<AlanBell> and you could drop in an SSD if you want
<Phineas> davmor2,  it it SATA or pata? i dont know
<davmor2> Phineas: In case you're not sure if you have 2 L shaped connectors on it it's sata, if it is lots of pins it's pata
<Phineas> davmor2,  pata, lots of pins
<Phineas> do they come cheap
<davmor2> Phineas: So you just need a 2.5 inch pata laptop drive.  You'll need to remove the outer metal slide house normally 2-4 screws done.
<davmor2> Phineas: check online
<davmor2> re price
<Phineas> i'll have a look some time
<AlanBell> 50 quid or thereabouts depending on size
<Phineas> AlanBell,  50 quid! *sigh* lucky enough i have other laptops, but still there might be data on the drive
<davmor2> Phineas: in the meantime if you need to do work etc, you could install on a USB stick with persistence and work from that and save stuff to the persistence section of the usb drive
<Phineas> davmor2,  not if the HDD wont boot
<AlanBell> boot from USB
<davmor2> Phineas: No it'll all be stored on the usb pen drive
<davmor2> including Ubuntu
<AlanBell> did you try accessing the hdd from the live CD? you might be able to get data off if you can
<Phineas> AlanBell,  yes and the drive is not there as the HDDs power on test failed
<domjohnson> Hi
<uraken> hi how are you
<domjohnson> Is there a way to set an external hard drive as the home mount point?
<Phineas> domjohnson,  hi
<AlanBell> Phineas: in which case, chuck it in the bin. There might be ways to recover it, but not at any sane budget.
<uraken> an external one um not sure?
<AlanBell> domjohnson: for just /home ? sure, that should work
<Phineas> AlanBell,  do you want to watch it boot (i have a vid)
<domjohnson> *after installation?
<AlanBell> directhex: collabora huh, nice!
<domjohnson> AlanBell - how would I change the mount point to the ext. HDD?
<directhex> AlanBell: if you're well behaved, i'll let you see the announcement blog post i changed my mind about publishing ;)
<Phineas> directhex,  ooh
<AlanBell> domjohnson: mounting something basically replaces what was there, so on your internal drive you have /home and then you mount the external one over the top of /home
<AlanBell> !mount
<lubotu3> mount is used to attach devices to directories. See also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Mount
<AlanBell> !fstab
<lubotu3> The /etc/fstab file indicates how drive partitions are to be used or otherwise integrated into the file system. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab and http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/fstab.html and !Partitions
<uraken> does anyone if there any software that will allow me to create a pdf documetn with editable regions to be able tpo print?
<domjohnson> uraken - as in,. the end user can edit it?
<AlanBell> directhex: are you moving towards the other university?
<directhex> AlanBell: nope, leaving academia for the forseeable future. i need a "real" job
<AlanBell> yeah, just saw they have a Cambridge office
<uraken> yes i want to create a document which in the main is a set of questions that the end user answers and then prints but can't save the main doc
<directhex> AlanBell: i'll need to be in cambs once or twice a week. work from home otherwise.
<uraken> it needs to be pdf for cross compatability
<uraken> i was thinking open office and some nice plugin ?
<AlanBell> uraken: what about a web page?
<Phineas> did someone want me
<uraken> alan thats is a really good idea umm
<uraken> may have to think about that one
<popey> congrats directhex
<Phineas> popey,  didn't see you there
<Phineas> directhex,  Cambridge? UK?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Is open source under siege? Let's hope not! - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/open-source-under-siege-lets-hope-not
<bigcalm> http://act.libdems.org.uk/events/nick-cleggs-lieathon # erm?
<danfish> sudo apt-get update
<danfish> #fail
<danfish> :)
<Phineas> a thousand wooop
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Are there opensource project to set up internal chat server and client within an organization
<popey> jabber
<Phineas> jabber?
<kaushal> ok
<popey> yes Phineas, jabber.
<ging> surely there is an open source irc server
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> !
<popey> why would you use irc over jabber?
<ging> no instead of jabber
<bigcalm> ging: Hybrid IRC
<bigcalm> http://www.ircd-hybrid.org/
<ging> everyone loves irc
<popey> ging: re-read and comprehend what I said
<popey> and for 'over' read 'instead of'
<ging> oh
<dutchie> irc and jabber aren't quite the same though
<MattJ> Indeed
<popey> yes, jabber is awesome.
<ging> i've never used jabber so that's why i wouldnt choose it
<MattJ> \o/
<dutchie> irc's main priority is groups, jabber's is for 1-1
<popey> BZZZZT
<popey> fail
<dutchie> jabber is also much more extensible
<dutchie> popey: main priority :)
<MattJ> I'm in more Jabber channels than IRC :)
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<kaushal> I do not see HowTo for setting up jabber
<popey> np
<kaushal> server and client
<popey> where are you looking?
<popey> !info ejabberd
<MattJ> Pft
<lubotu3> ejabberd (source: ejabberd): distributed, fault-tolerant Jabber/XMPP server written in Erlang. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.1.5-2 (maverick), package size 1728 kB, installed size 4176 kB
<MattJ> !info prosody
<lubotu3> prosody (source: prosody): Lightweight Jabber/XMPP server written in Lua. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.6.2-2 (maverick), package size 137 kB, installed size 932 kB
<MattJ> ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> first hit on google
<popey> kaushal: listen to MattJ, he knows what he talks about
<MattJ> I can help with setting up Prosody too (after using ejabberd, I decided to write it)
<MattJ> and there are lots of clients, Pidgin, Gajim, Empathy, Psi, Swift...
<kaushal> ok
<MattJ> and mcabber and finch for console :)
<MattJ> and some others I can't remember
<kaushal> so use ejabberd or Prosody as server and use pidgin for client application ?
<MattJ> That works
<Phineas> Unity web player for linux is there one?
<popey> Phineas: google + unity web player linux = http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/5891-Linux-Web-Player
<Phineas> popey,  no help at all
<MattJ> kaushal: if you need any more help btw, #jabber is friendly :)
<kaushal> MattJ: Thanks
<kaushal> so ideally setup Prosody
<kaushal> since its straight forward ?
<MattJ> Sure, at a minimum just "sudo apt-get install prosody" and change `Host "localhost"` in the config to whatever the address of your server is
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> Also does it store the chat messages somewhere ?
<MattJ> For logging you mean?
<kaushal> and can it be configured as group chat
<MattJ> It can
<kaushal> MattJ: yes
<MattJ> There's an example in the config
<kaushal> oh ok
<kaushal> so once Prosody is setup, which client application would be ideal for connecting to Prosody ?
<MattJ> Depends on your preferences, I use Gajim
<kaushal> ok
<MattJ> Empathy is installed in Ubuntu by default, and that works too
<kaushal> MattJ: Awesome
<kaushal> Thanks a Lot
<MattJ> np
<MattJ> You'll be wanting http://prosody.im/doc/configure and in particular http://prosody.im/doc/creating_accounts
<kaushal> Also can i force use to login as kaushal@example.com ?
<kaushal> user*
<MattJ> That's up to their client
<kaushal> so its ideal to use Prosody as Server and Gajim as client within the office LAN Network
<kaushal> since i wont to prohibit user to use gtalk yahoo ......
<MattJ> It's ideal to use whatever you find best - if you like Gajim then sure
<kaushal> want*
<dutchie> kaushal: i'd say the easiest way to block other services is not allow connections to chat.google.com or whatever it is
<kaushal> MattJ: How long it would take to configure the set up ?
<MattJ> A few minutes for the server, a few minutes for the client? :)
<kaushal> :D
<kaushal> MattJ: so you are the man
<kaushal> Thanks
<kaushal> much appreciated
<MattJ> dutchie: if you don't want outbound IM it's tricky - you can block major services that way, but you can Jabber/XMPP to any server and any port
<kaushal> I would start working it from tommorrow
<MattJ> kaushal: np
<dutchie> MattJ: oh yeah, i did vaguely know that
<MattJ> Yay for the internet is what I say :)
<marsilainen> hi all
<marsilainen> I see that I can set sshd to listen on more than one port
<marsilainen> what I would like to do is to have different options set depending upon the port
<marsilainen> so that port 22 will have one set of options and port 97987 or whatever will have a different set of options
<marsilainen> but I can't see a way to do that?
<danfish> marsilainen: not sure that's possible. I think you could run a second instance of sshd with a different config file
<marsilainen> danfish: ok, thanks, I might have to resort to that
<directhex> i believe danfish is correct
<directhex> i don't think the debian config files allow for that, but you could make your own copy of /etc/init.d/ssh and call it something like privatessh or whatever, and set the new config file path in there
<directhex> multiple init scripts is likely the best way to achieve your goal.
<danfish> only drawback is any automatic updates to ssh may well undo it all, but that's not the end of the world
<Azelphur> directhex: the other day you said the graphics card I was looking at wasn't that great (The GTX 470) but besides that there's only really the GTX 580
<Azelphur> do you think I should fork out for a 580?
<directhex> Azelphur: given it's not a gaming machine, sod it.
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I max out my 8800 easy
<Azelphur> (In Linux)
<directhex> (In Linux)
<Azelphur> indeed (In Linux)
<marsilainen> directhex: thanks, that helps me understand a clean way of doing it
<popey> marsilainen: i run ssh on more than one port
<popey> you dont need to have two ssh daemons at all
<popey> marsilainen: just have two lines in /etc/ssh/sshd_config with Port NN and Port MM
<popey> one after the other
<marsilainen> popey: I understand that I can do that - but I need different settings on the different ports
<popey> oh, sorry, misread :S
<popey> what kind of options?
<marsilainen> popey: on port 22 I want to allow password login, but on 97897 (or whatever) I want you to only be able to connect with a key file
<marsilainen> the higher port will be forwarded through a firewall from outside
<marsilainen> but port 22 still open on the lan for convenience
<Azelphur> popey: a while back I think you recommended an SSD, the Intel X25-M
<Azelphur> is that still good?
<directhex> Azelphur: the x25-m is still a very very good drive... but very expensive
<directhex> i believe the x25 is still best in *sustained* benchmarks... drives based on a sandforce controller will eclipse it for bursts
<popey> i have no idea what ssd's are good and bad Azelphur
<MartijnVdS> the PCIe ones are faster
<MartijnVdS> that's all I know
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, but atm it's cheap
<Azelphur> amazon are doing black friday in the UK
<Azelphur> so Â£78, everywhere else is like Â£140+
<danfish> marsilainen: you can specify that from within the LAN logins can be password based and from without keys IIRC
<danfish> forgot an ',' -> "from without, keys, IRRC"
<danfish> marsilainen: scrap that - just checked, that won't work :(
<marsilainen> danfish: no worries, thanks for looking anyway
<directhex> Azelphur: Â£78 for which capacity?
<Azelphur> 40
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
 * czajkowski kicks MooDoo in the shins oi behave you
 * MooDoo pokes czajkowski in the side, make me :p
<czajkowski> davmor2: is easier than this
<davmor2> czajkowski: Thanks for that now everyone thinks I'm easy :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: and this is news?
<MooDoo> davmor2, come on, you're not very quick at prodding her tonight :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: see that guy over there in the white jacket and black bowtie serving drink he reminds me of you ;)
<MooDoo> czajkowski, go make me a cuppa ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: one day you're going to regret saying that
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i'll regret it when Ireland beat England at the world cup...oh hang on, that aint going to happen :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: it'll be the day she pulverises you into the shape of a cup
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm not scared of her any more, i've decided
<shauno> MooDoo: the only thing to fear is fear itself.  the pain subsides after a few weeks :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: Muhahahahahaha foolish mortal :)
<MooDoo> davmor2, it's coz i'm miles away :)
<fearny> Hi need some running a racing sim game called rfactor
<fearny> its not detecting my on board ati HD 4200
<daubers> Evening
<MooDoo> daubers, evening
<AlanBell> Look who the European Commission vice president turns to for advice! http://twitter.com/#!/NeelieKroesEU/status/5692941079150593
<Azelphur> nice
<daubers> Blimey, that's quite impressive
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ireland aren't allow to beat England at anything for the next million years, it's in the small print for the bail out
<jacobw> Bah, just spend 75 minutes on the phone with a relative trying to get their email client working and got nowhere
<MooDoo> davmor2, lol, then again as she's now in the uk, she should support england lol
<jacobw> is it possible to run a VNC session on port 80?
<shauno> don't see why not.  I run ssh on 443.  most things don't care.  it's just a number
<davmor2> jacobw: are they on Ubuntu?
<jacobw> Fedora, but same difference
<davmor2> jacobw: get them to share the session via empathy done and dusted
<jacobw> davmor2, what protocol?
<czajkowski> davmor2: we omt mention the opression so shall we
<davmor2> jacobw: It just spouts it through the empathy im call
<davmor2> jacobw: if you can get out through empathy it can get in
<davmor2> czajkowski: those painkiller are kicking in I see, you can't type any more :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye took some of my strong ones I take for my back for my tooth plus antibiotic
<MooDoo> czajkowski, did you sort a dentist?
<czajkowski> yes see fb
<daubers>  /o\ fb
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski can't talk,  so yes she did, wisdom tooth coming through and desperately trying to kill her in the process
<MooDoo> davmor2, last time  had to go to the dentist for an extraction, they took 3 of mine out at once
<daubers> MooDoo: I'd have done all of them at once, and for half the price!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Mine feel apart as they grew through I have a lovely scar from the drain they put in for the abscess, oh and nerve damage so I don't feel a great deal in my chin
 * daubers wonders where he put those bolt cutters
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Always twirling, twirling, twirling towards Freedom - http://apebox.org/wordpress/linux/296/
<jacobw> davmor2, so if I register then for an MSN account, I'll be able to desktop sharing with them?
<davmor2> jacobw: yeap, or gmail if you got one, or jabber
<jacobw> I can't get jabber working atm
 * hippychick kicksh empathy
<jacobw> Oh. It's working :p
<hippychick> my empathy on msn doesnt bloody work
<finelytuned> evenin g all
<jacobw> evening
<davmor2> hippychick: there was a work around for that in a bug report I'll try and track it down,  the issue was with MS rather than empathy
<daubers> Whats the plural of apex?
<daubers> apexs' or apexes?
<shauno> apices :)
<davmor2> hippychick: sorry I can't find it :(
<danfish> daubers: apices
<hippychick> davmor2, i found this, http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1583570.html but im getting the same issue as the last people
<hippychick> and the fix in there is already on my laptop
<daubers> shauno,danfish: ta :)
<davmor2> hippychick: I know why mine is working there is a fix in proposed
<MooDoo> hehe john maddog hall just accepted my facebook friend request lol
<finelytuned> cya all tomorrow
<popey> bigcalm: google minecraft xray :D
<bigcalm> Oooooo
<bigcalm> That's cheating!
 * popey presses F4 to highlight diamond on his map
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_165689&v=v5fS4RF3ht0&feature=iv
<popey> lol, thats ace
<bigcalm> Now watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtWwkJqrT_4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
<bigcalm> Which is, erm, colourful
<popey> wow
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Tips For ustream.tv Videocasters - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/23/tips-for-ustream-tv-videocasters/
<Azelphur> do the linksys wifi cards have proprietary drivers?
<Azelphur> and by linksys I mean netgear
 * Azelphur facepalms on behalf of everyone
<suprengr> I could have sworn I synchronised my planet's time-counters with your Earth clocks correctly...
<suprengr> ...so what happened to  or: Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting"
<popey> "oops"
<suprengr> [me confused]
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
 * suprengr poke me
<popey> looks like everyone forgot]
<AlanBell> in another meeting that is running over, and dull
<suprengr> forgiveness is a gift.. you are forgiven
<suprengr> ;)
<AlanBell> right, done with the last meeting
<AlanBell> ok, so oops to our meeting, my fault I was chair
<AlanBell> mea culpa and many lashes with the cilice and all that
<AlanBell> actually no, that is a wearing thing
<suprengr> whatever turns you on
<AlanBell> ok, so rescheduling sounds like a good idea
<danfish> prob for the best
 * suprengr agrees
<AlanBell> tomorrow?
 * mgdm looks at upgrading his MPC-L... which is headless... from Jaunty
<danfish> AlanBell: ?bit short notice - maybe next Tuesday?
<danfish> mgdm: DO IT!
 * suprengr agrees next week... allows time for rumours to spread
<danfish> mgdm: can't get my MPC-L to run maverick, but OK with lucid
<mgdm> danfish: cool, I'll be happy with Lucid
<popey> it wont run maverick because its not i686
<gord> wow really?
<mgdm> oh, forgot about that change
<danfish> oh yeah, me too
<marsilainen> are those mpc-l things still available to buy? or is there a better alternative these days?
<gord> i'm waiting for arm hardware to become more prevalent before replacing my low energy stuff with newer low energy stuff. would love to replace my home server with an arm device
<AlanBell> ok, so next meeting Tuesday 30th then
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - 1st 3D Open Source driver from AMD/ATi : http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/211503/open_source_driver_debuts_for_amd_fusion_chip.html
<mgdm> \o/ Ubuntu 9.04
<mgdm> (in screen)
<danfish> marsilainen: dunno, but they I think it's fair to say revo's are prob more popular and far more popular for low powered stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> "At this rate, it won't be long before drivers and compatibility issues become a thing of the past for Linux users."
<danfish> buzzzz. repetition!
<suprengr> AlanBell: Tuesday 30th cool
<mgdm> anyone know offhand what kind of drive the MPC-L has inside it? I forget, and I dont have a screwdriver handy
<danfish> mgdm: 2.5in pata IIRC
<Nafallo> mgdm: dmesg ? :-)
<mgdm> danfish: ta
<mgdm> Nafallo: oh aye
<mgdm> I might get a bigger one
<Nafallo> mgdm: 512GB SSD? ;-)
<mgdm> Nafallo: hah
<AlanBell> can popey or someone update the topic please, here and -meeting
<AlanBell> or that
<DJones> Go for it
<Nafallo> hah
<AlanBell> Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 23rd November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:  http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 30th November 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |  Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<AlanBell> silly paste thing
<bigcalm> Wow, I missed this. It's finally made beta (back in September) http://sparkleshare.org/
 * Nafallo ponders how one says that domain ubunt.eu... ubunteeeew?
<AlanBell> up to 11 for the christmas thing, plus 5 maybes
<mgdm> this goes to 11 \o/
<AlanBell> rock on
<danfish> gotta work until 20:30 that day :(
<jacobw> I'm considering buying a VPS to host a website for a business venture
<jacobw> What VPS provider would you guys reccomend?
<bigcalm> Bytemark for me
<danfish> linode
<AlanBell> we have started using real hardware and running our own vms on it
<danfish> AlanBell: oooh, who with?
<AlanBell> hardware at hetzner.de
<AlanBell> running KVM
<AlanBell> looked into doing eucalyptus but really KVM is all we need
<danfish> that's some serious hardware - which plan are you using?
<AlanBell> EQ 4
<AlanBell> 8 cores, 8GB
<AlanBell> looked at the bigger boxes, but I would rather have smaller ones with more redundancy
<AlanBell> 4 cores, hyperthreaded to be strictly accurate
<danfish> makes sense
<popey> mgdm: http://popey.com/~alan/viglen/
<popey> has been there for ooo 2 years :)
<mgdm> popey: yay, ta :)
<jacobw> The business is a rent-a-villa type deal, I'm planning to use the website to advertise the property and what dates are available for booking, and possibily take bookings
<danfish> AlanBell: your own mini cloud :)
<bigcalm> Still running xorg on a viglen?
<popey> hah
<jacobw> I don't think I need a monsterous server for that just yet
<popey> not running any viglens at the moment
<bigcalm> Me neither :S
<bigcalm> No idea what to do with mine
<popey> someone should make a ppa for a maverick kernel which is i386
<popey> for the viglen
<bigcalm> Still want to buy another revo but doubt I'll use it
<AlanBell> jacobw: no, you don't, really cheap vps from bytemark would work great
 * popey looks at his spare revo
<AlanBell> could do shared hosting but it is nicer to have root access to your machine
<bigcalm> Is it worth getting the recent one?
<jacobw> AlanBell: I agree, I would definately want root access
<danfish> popey: could you use a debian i386 recent kernel on the MPC-L and then the rest of the ubuntu 'stack', or am I being dumb?
<popey> danfish: probably
<danfish> :D
<popey> unless there are libc differences
<AlanBell> we are mainly doing VPS for our consultancy customers, and we are not getting into monthly billing stuff, just 6 or 12 month contracts
<danfish> sorry - I was assuming the 'dumb' option ;)
<popey> :)
 * bigcalm chuckles
<popey> dumb is good
<bigcalm> It wasn't aimed at me!
<popey> i need sleep
<popey> nn all
<bigcalm> Night popey
<danfish> cheerio
<danfish> AlanBell: I wonder if the G-Cloud will ever actually happen?
<Azelphur> I wonder how fast Ubuntu would boot on 3 SSD's in RAID5
<AlanBell> danfish: not sure, now John Suffolk is leaving
<AlanBell> something called the G-Cloud will certainly happen
<danfish> Azelphur: softraid - not at all - raid5 booting not supported AFAIK
<AlanBell> and will be pointed to as a success of the strategy
<danfish> AlanBell: why, oh why did he have to leave. A disaster.
<Azelphur> danfish: so I'd need a mobo with real raid to do it
<danfish> Azelphur: yup
<Azelphur> that's a little depressing D:
<danfish> AlanBell: in my patch we have agreed to start a cloud(y) type system with 'buddy' practices who will mirror each other's data and in event of a failure at on site provide a virtual machine
<danfish> not much, but a start
<AlanBell> nice
<danfish> Azelphur: the softraid stuff is loads during boot, so you've go to get so far into the boot before that happens
<Azelphur> Indeed
<danfish> in an IT meeting yesterday, the local IT manager mentioned open source before I did. He's looking at open(libre)office on new installs.
<jacobw> win
<danfish> jacobw: maybe. The standard doc format within the organisation has been set at .doc with .docx being deemed unacceptable.
<siya> "fsck: fsck.ntfs-3g: not found"
<siya> Is there such a thing these days or do ppl still dual boot for fix ntfs problems?
 * siya is dealing with a backup disk that needs to be Win mountable if the day ever came
<siya> Would rather not format it FAT... *sigh*
<danfish> siya: sorry to ask a stupid Q, but is package ntfs-3g installed?
<siya> btw, evening peeps
<siya> danfish, yup it is
<siya> ntfsprogs as well
<siya> I normally have it mounted and use rsync to write to it
<siya> noticed an IO error in my syslog so thought I'd best check the disk
<siya> Setup is a Ubuntu server running virtualbox 3.2. Guest OS's include Win2k8.
<siya> multiple virtual machines backup to that disk (not all local) hence rsync
<danfish> I can't say anything good about ntfs
<siya> danfish, I'd rather use something else but I also need to have access to it from Windows (others not me)
<siya> imho using ntfs-3g for backup purposes in not ideal
<BigRedS> ext driver for windows?
<danfish> ?format as ext3 and then get the windows folks to use the ext3 driver for windows if needed?
<BigRedS> for backing up a unixy thing, I'd want a unixy fs, else you'll be forever arsing around with permissions
<siya> danfish, urgh
<siya> kthnx guys. Prolly best I reformat when swapping backup disks next
<danfish> right. TTFN. Kids will be waking me up in 6 hrs or less.
<hamitron> certainly fresh outside ;/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Barnes and Noble response - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/130533.html
<jacobw> Does anybody use Google Sites?
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> not much though :/
<jacobw> I think I'll stick to writing my own HTML etc on balance, at least I'll know exactly how it works
<hamitron> jacobw: I personally consider it a good fill in till I can be bothered to make something
<BigRedS> Ah, that's what I call html 1.0 style sites
<jacobw> BigRedS: Google sites are?
<jacobw> hamitron: I can figure out how to make it do what I want
<jacobw> hamitron: I'm not quite sure about having a WYSIWYG web page editor inside my browser either
<hamitron> my main reason for even looking was the email hosting
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> Yeah that is a good reason
<hamitron> it was part of my drive in life to reduce "maintaining" stuff
<jacobw> I think that having an integrated email and calendar and everything else would be massively over doing it for what I need
<hamitron> I just used it to redirect stuff
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> I just need to display a calendar, have a contact form and drop emails to a small number of people
<hamitron> but I know there is the functionality there is needed
<hamitron> if*
<jacobw> Which is probably PHP 101
 * jacobw needs to learn PHP
<hamitron> it was not really the setup of what I needed, that worried me
<hamitron> more the continual patching if I hosted my own
<hamitron> and google been free, won me over
<jacobw> Yeah, on the flip side, I will need the ability to maintain this site myself
<hamitron> I do use google docs though, and have thought it would be interesting to merge it all together
<jacobw> Yeah, I think that would be good
<hamitron> but then I come to my main weakness.... I never play with that kinda thing until I need it
<jacobw> I've never played with a server before, it'll be a learning experience
<hamitron> so just use what I already know
<hamitron> yeh
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-24
<hamitron> 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz is down to Â£45 :-o
<jacobw> I'm sure it'll contribute to feeling of my life being one long IT headache though :p
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> I like hammers
<hamitron> so isn't for me
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> Hammers for the win :p
<jacobw> Right, tis nearly midnight
<hamitron> yeh, time for coffee
<hamitron> :D
<jacobw> Lol, time for bed in my case
<jacobw> Night..
<hamitron> okies, take care and good luck
<hamitron> with whatever you decide
<Azelphur> My friend has this wireless PCI card, 01:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88w8335 [Libertas] 802.11b/g Wireless (rev 03)
<Azelphur> it doesn't seem to work, doesn't show up in ifconfig at all
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> Azelphur: libertas? ought to be fine. that's the OLPC wifi chip
<directhex> hm... new variant?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<directhex> aha
<directhex> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/mrv8k
<Azelphur> yea I found that, the link in the guide is 404 and it talks about feisty
<directhex> wow, feisty o_o
<Azelphur> so probably obsolete
 * hamitron likes a bit of feisty
<hamitron> moving targets are hard to hit :/
<directhex> aha, nowadays it's called mwl8k
<directhex> or maybe not
<directhex> sigh
<directhex> computers suck
<hamitron> agreed
<nigelb> directhex: Congrats :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Viewsonic and the GPL - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/130815.html
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<daubers> Urgh
 * daubers needs porridge
<czajkowski> Aloha
<daubers> nom nom bnom nom porrdge
 * daubers speed tests a storage box
<diplo> morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Meetings, Videocasts, Oh My! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/24/meetings-videocasts-oh-my/
<DJones> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> *\o
<screen-x> morning :)
<hoover> hi folks
<hoover> good mornin all
<DJones> !logs
<lubotu3> Channel logs can be found at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/
<selinuxium> morning  :)
<AlanBell> DJones: that needs updating
<DJones> Yup, just looking at it now
<DJones> This is interesting, hadn't noticed any earlier reports about it http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/23/darily_ubuntu_updates/ With daily updates, could make Ubuntu one of the most up to date distro's
<DJones> Although, five year plan, so not going to be an instant change
<DJones> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<screen-x> DJones: ooh shiny new html logs
<DJones> heh
<screen-x> Though I do wonder what nigelb was congratulating directhex about at 04:53am..
<diplo> his new job I'd guess at
<screen-x> Ahh cool, belated congrats directhex ;-)
<DJones> screen-x: Have a look at 17:08 yesterday, that gives a bit more of a hint
<DJones> Congrats directhex
<popey> morning
<screen-x> \o popey
<czajkowski> ello elo folks
<czajkowski> cold morning out there
<selinuxium> indeed! RSPCA were out snapping dogs off lamp posts...
<czajkowski> selinuxium: ahhh bless you're back
<czajkowski> :)
<gord> geez, whys it so cold today
<MartijnVdS> Just go out for a run, you'll warm right up
<gord> r.....un?
<gord> like in a car?
<MartijnVdS> gord: no, running shoes, etc.
 * MartijnVdS did that yesterday evening
<MartijnVdS> first 5 minutes are cold.. after that you produce so much heat by running, even -5C won'
<MartijnVdS> t bother you
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Yeah, work has been a pain and taking up all my time... I only get the occasional minute or two... :/
<popey> MartijnVdS: who are you and what have you done with treenaks!?
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://goo.gl/maps/BXk8
<czajkowski> selinuxium: and in these short but brief moments you do come up with some odd liners
 * DJones suggests maybe a run to pub to sit in front of a roaring log fire might be ok
 * screen-x hopes MartijnVdS covers his knees running in cold weather
<selinuxium> czajkowski, I try my bestest... :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I do.. coldest bits are my ears (for now)
<popey> MartijnVdS: your town looks pretty in google maps
<gord> yeah, nicely laid out , not like the sprawl that is english towns
<popey> yeah
<screen-x> Its almost like someone planned it
<MartijnVdS> It was built in "phases"
<MartijnVdS> the bit around the river is the oldest, then the bit where I ran (built from the end of WW2-1970s, population growth)
<MartijnVdS> then the bit south of the train track (more growth)
<diplo> flat though.. :)
<diplo> Wish we had some nice flat areas around here, 1/4 mile in each direction i want to go i have a slope of some kind
<MartijnVdS> diplo: farm land, polders :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: Any sailing happen on the lake? I can't see any dinghy parks round the edge..
<nigelb> screen-x: yeah, his new job
<diplo> I just go to the gym at lunch time, tis a lot warmer and lot's of lovely ladies in skimpy outfits!
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: wind surfing mostly, and there's a "cable ski" track
<nigelb> screen-x: BUt it was morning for me!
<screen-x> nigelb: shifts or non-uk?
<czajkowski> god damnit I hate printers
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: \o/ Windsurfing
<nigelb> screen-x: Non UK
<nigelb> screen-x: Despite my very Britsh name, I'm not British ;)
<czajkowski> what package do I log bugs agasint for printers?
<gord> i have absolutely no idea o_O
<screen-x> czajkowski: is it a driver prob? you could use apt-file to find out which package the ppd you are using is in.
<nigelb> That's strange, bug squad doesn't give any documentation about printers o_O
<czajkowski> nigelb: :o
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: does the "manage printers" dialog have a menu with "Report a problem..." entry?
<gord> slowternets are being slow today
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: one of the guys in here worked some voodoo
<nigelb> czajkowski: Got it working?
<nigelb> THanks for saying that, now we have to fix that in the docs :)
<czajkowski> nigelb: aye
<czajkowski> not sure how, but it's working
<czajkowski> and I've debian installing in machine beside me
<nigelb> czajkowski: lenny?
<nigelb> I ran it for a few months.  Made me appreciate the work we put into Ubuntu.  It was a um  a bit of pain to get wireless working :/
<czajkowski> nigelb: aye
<czajkowski> wiping g5 and installing lenny on it
<nigelb> czajkowski: Win \o/
<czajkowski> well if it would behave and stop giving us apple needs this messages
<popey> morning kazade
<popey> and chewit
<chewit> morning
<chewit> oh, popey, question, I really like your ucast videos, but why create an entirely new website, when there is already screencasts.ubuntu.com
<popey> because they may not all be ubuntu :)
<chewit> ah ok
<kazade> morning popey
<Ng> I hear the guy who started screencasts.ubuntu.com isn't very nice ;)
<popey> :)
<kazade> I hear the guy that started ucasts.tv isn't nice either :p
 * kazade runs
 * daubers notes popey has hit a bug and is twittering about changing apps
<popey> daubers: changing to something with more features
<kazade> lol: http://i.imgur.com/Nh6Xj.jpg
<kazade> has to be fake
<popey> haha
<MartijnVdS> Germans... :)
<gord> i see the weather today is three wavy lines again, i'll figure out what on earth you mean some day lines!!!
<daubers> popey: Just found it amusing after the las tpodcast
<czajkowski> gord: wind |
<czajkowski> ?
<czajkowski> or levels of pressure ?
<popey> daubers: you know I talk to upstream a lot?
<MartijnVdS> â« Under pressure
<popey> daubers: I run the tomboy ppa too, so it's not like they don't know about the issue
<czajkowski> none of my notes are working today :( rather peeved about this
<czajkowski> well thats wrong they are snyching from here to U1 , and U1 is working but not giving me my notes from other machines :(
<kazade> grr getting a little tired of U1 using all my CPU now..
 * kazade notices that U1 is topic of the day
<directhex> u1 hungry! om nom nom
<popey> can you see them at http://one.ubuntu.com/notes/ czajkowski ?
<czajkowski> popey: even worse I can see old notes but not new ones, but it's been telling me it's updated on machine here :(
<kazade> on the forth attempt, I finally managed to get U1 to quit \o/
<gord> czajkowski, neither of those, no one can figure it out
<gord> its never windy or hazy when it shows up
<screen-x> gord: sea state?
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> gord: image ?
 * davmor2 randomly picks on czajkowski to see if her can open her gob yet
<gord> oooh i know what it is
<czajkowski> no :(
<czajkowski> no improvement yes
<czajkowski> *yet
<gord> if you hover over the applet you get a tooltip that explains it, its just wrong \o/
<screen-x> gord: whatisit?
<gord> supposed to be fog, its just always been wrong
<czajkowski> hmm dont seem to haev the aplet installed
<gord> sure you do, its the normal gnome clock. you right click it to turn weather stuff on
<czajkowski> gord: ahh I had it set to turn on for weather, but no location was added
<czajkowski> bah my memenu is being bold again and only spelling half my name, it does this from time to time
<czajkowski> I think it wants me to shorten myname
<screen-x> it knows your actual name is cztab
<czajkowski> screen-x: you've been listening to davmor2 too mucb
<czajkowski> *much
 * screen-x goes back to the light side
<screen-x> talking of which, I haven't tried radiance in a while
<czajkowski> anyone here running gwibber for twitter and identica
 * gord puts hand up
<czajkowski> gord: are your tweets coming in ?
<gord> nope! its awesome, i'm getting work done
<czajkowski> mine is only showing the dents, so removed twitter and re added it
<gord> i'm running the dailys though, they break sometimes
<czajkowski> aye my machine at home is running dailys but this one isn't
<czajkowski> odd...
<bigcalm> czajkowski!
<czajkowski> bigcalm: !
<gord> oh czajkowski the old ones don't tell you if you have an invalid signature, ken told me that you have to re-authenticate or something
<czajkowski> aye I did that
<czajkowski> oh I ask ken a lotta gwibber stuff
<czajkowski> :)
<gord> he seemed happy when i told him i was running the dailys, relieved almost so i'm guessing there is a bug with the old one that means its gone crazy and its hard to fix
<czajkowski> so I now know to kill all gwibber services when I've an issue
<MartijnVdS> I don't have that problem
<MartijnVdS> gwibber usually kills itself
<czajkowski> gord: seems to randomly start to work again
<screen-x> If you want to strip the first and last lines from a stream, you need "|tail -n +2 |head -n -1" odd, I would have thought they would both be 1, or both 2.
<MartijnVdS> head != tail :)
<bigcalm> 2 sides of the same coin though
<davmor2> czajkowski: mine are but I'm running proposed I'm also running Maverick
<czajkowski> davmor2: they seem to have re started
<davmor2> Damn I was gonna spend the next half hour insulting you on twitter :D
 * popey wonders if czajkowski has seen the front page of the Irish Daily Star today.
<popey> http://twitpic.com/39etw6
<bigcalm> :D
<diplo> dont they have a way with words :P
<daubers> popey: Wasn't meant as criticism earlier, just amused me was all
<czajkowski> popey: I don't even have to look at that to know what it is, it's in my twitter stream all morning long
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> they really have screwed up our country
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you've moved to a country that isn't doing much better
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I got a job over here though
<czajkowski> either that or I was going to move to CAnada
<bigcalm> I guess you are now part mass exidous of young people
<bigcalm> Canadia's loss is our gain :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: also cheaper for me to fly from here to canada :)
<czajkowski> visit tc
<nucc1> has anyone noticed that the planet.ubuntu.com rss feed is broken?
<bigcalm> So you were thinking about your carbon footprint as well!
<davmor2> nucc1: Yeap
<nucc1> davmor2, you got an updated url? or do i have to make do with the web browser?
<davmor2> nucc1: not yet but the guy responsible is on our team so as soon as he gets online he's havin' it
<nucc1> :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: more direct flights from here
<czajkowski> and the less time spend in O'HAre airport the better
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: it;s an evil airport
<bigcalm> Haunted?
<czajkowski> no just security is a bit evil, and I was delayed 4 hrs the last time due to security line
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> God damn local government. I'm glad that many have moved on from IE6, but they are still behind. I need to test something in IE7 but have 8 on this machine
<bigcalm> What's an easy way of getting 7? Uninstall 8 and find 7?
<nigelb> bigcalm: I think there is web developer tool which makes IE8 render IE7
<bigcalm> nigelb: I'm unable to replicate the client's display issues
<bigcalm> I'm wondering if using default ie7 would do so
<nigelb> Ah.  VM then.
<bigcalm> Spend the rest of the day setting up a windows VM, yay :(
<nigelb> Hah.
<nigelb> Or you could do the world good and say, sorry IE7 does not support your website :p
<nigelb> Help in the killing of IE7
<bigcalm> I have no idea what the issue is yet
<bigcalm> Well, I mean that I'm unable to replicate it
<BigRedS> There's talk of dropping support for IE7 alread?
<BigRedS> *already
<bigcalm> http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/ie6-ie7-ie8-win7-xp-mode # hummmz
<czajkowski> nigelb: cant really say that to clients
<czajkowski> then tend to say by I'll get another developer
<nigelb> czajkowski: I know, just kidding. :)
<nigelb> I spend a really nice weekend trying to figure out IE7 issues too :(
<oly> install ie7 in wine :p thats how i test sites for ie7 it more accurate than compatibility mode in ie8
<BigRedS> Hm. Customer's using imagemagick to create some pdfs, but they're coming out corrupt and unopenable. Evince opens them fine, is there something in pdf that evince deals with particularly more elegantly than acrobat reader?
<daubers> nom nom nom nom lunch
<davmor2> BigRedS: They won't do that it's the browser on windows phone 7
<screen-x> popey: how big is your iMac?
<popey> 20"
<screen-x> I have to choose a replacement apple product on insurance, and was looking at the 27s, some people say they are too big to sit at comfortably..
<diplo> We use a 27" in the office, as long as your desk is fairly large I'd say they are fine
<daubers> screen-x: You need to have a deep desk for a 27
<daubers> screen-x: We have a couple here and on a shallow desk (or a workbench) they are a bit... too big
<screen-x> The other problem is that the top of the screen is supposed to be at eye level, and it may be a bit high, do you find that diplo or daubers?
<LNX1010> Hello! Does anyone have any experience with phpScheduleIt ?
<screen-x> Wen't to have a look in the apple store, but they are arranged so that you are standing up, not sitting down..
<daubers> screen-x: On the desk, yes.
<screen-x> hmmm
<daubers> screen-x: Saying that, if your doing video editing the 27" is much nicer to use than the 20
<popey> what res is the 27?
<screen-x> 2560*1440 iirc
<nucc1> O_O
<popey> nice
<daubers> screen-x: Yup
<daubers> screen-x: There is a quad core 27" now too
<screen-x> yep... talking of which, do you know if it's a "real" i7, or a laptop i7?
<daubers> Thought it was an i5
<screen-x> There is an i7 option..
<daubers> ah
<daubers> ok
<daubers> screen-x: http://www.slashgear.com/imac-core-i7-review-mid-2010-1898045/
<daubers> apparently one of these http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=41315
<screen-x> Shame you can't adjust the height...
<s3nk4s_> quit
<screen-x> thanks daubers, I completely missed those links!
<daubers> screen-x: That is somewhat true. You could, however, get a minidisplay port to dvi adapter and use a second screen :)
<screen-x> daubers: I have considered that, would need the dual link one though, and that's Â£70..
<daubers> really?
<screen-x> http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MB571Z/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY
<daubers> Why would you need a dual link one?
<screen-x> 1900x1200..
<daubers> You have a screen that big?
<screen-x> yep
<daubers> Fair enough
<daubers> Biggest mine are is 1440x900 so I don't need to worry about that :)
<screen-x> this is the odd thing about macs, you can't get a reasonably priced desktop without a large screen attached to it..
<daubers> Though the new mac minis come with a nice little HDMI to DVI adapter
<screen-x> They've stopped supplying adapters with the laptops.
<screen-x> And if you do decide to pay extra for a mac pro, they have the cheek to give you 3GB of RAM, when the imacs come with 4!
<MartijnVdS> you should buy Macs with the least amount of RAM possible
<MartijnVdS> then upgrade
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: yeah, wasn't going to pay apple for extra ram..
<MartijnVdS> (official Kingston upgrade sets cost less than half compared to what Apple asks for RAM)
<daubers> screen-x: The new Mac Pros come that way because they have the new xeon chips in which balance across three sticks of RAM
<screen-x> daubers: yep, so they should supply 6GB in the base model
<daubers> screen-x: Hah! Don't be silly. This _is_ Apple we're talking about :p
<screen-x> :p
<Ng> screen-x: why is it odd? nobody buys desktops anymore ;)
<Ng> and their desktop monitors have cables that are perfect for docking the laptops to - magsage, miniDP and USB
<nucc1> i'm actually thinking of getting a desktop
<daubers> Ng: And the cinema display is a steal at Â£900
<Ng> daubers: hehe
<nucc1> currently running 3 virtual machines on my laptop and the device is not liking it.
<Ng> daubers: if you want cheap, Michael Dell would love to sell you lots of unattractive black boxes for low low prices ;)
<daubers> Ng: Heh
<daubers> Ng: There's a lovely company down the road from me called Added Dimention who can get me Dell stuff even cheaper :)
<Ng> daubers: win :)
<daubers> s/Dimention/Dimension
<daubers> I have 3 ThinkCenters in throwing range that came from them, with matching monitors
<Ng> daubers: apple stuff isn't aimed at cost-sensitive customers, which is why they have a small share of the computer market, but most of the profit
<daubers> Ng: Sadly true
<dutchie> what's sad about it?
<BigRedS> it means I can't afford a macbook pro :(
<daubers> Ng: Admittedly, the interior design of the Mac Pro is quite nice (with disk trays and all)
 * daubers mortgages dutchie to buy a MBP
<screen-x> Wikipedia: "the Mac Pro is very quiet in normal operation, quieter than the already-quiet Power Mac G5,[20][21] and proved difficult to measure using common decibel meters."   In my experience the power mac G5s sounded like a jet taking off.
<paul> test
<screen-x> paul: it works!
<dutchie> daubers: :(
<screen-x> dutchie: at least interest rates are low, he'll pay you off in no time.
<daubers> screen-x: More like concord, silly part liquid cooled things where worse
<daubers> screen-x: Or! I could miss the payments and have dutchie taken instead
<dutchie> :(
<dutchie> mean daubers is mean
<wintellect> can someone point me at the right man page which details where to add routing commands so they take effect on reboots
<BigRedS> /etc/network/interfaces ?
<BigRedS> Er, man page
<BigRedS> man interfaces
<nucc1> does one put routing commands in interfaces?
<BigRedS> I've put them in there, I thought that was normal?
<wintellect> BigRedS: tried that, but unless I'm going mad I can't see it in there
<nucc1> what do u meanby routing commands?
<BigRedS> wintellect: I just looked, it's not...
<wintellect> nucc1: route add ...
<screen-x> wintellect: could use post-up in interfaces, to run your routing commands
<wintellect> nothing in man ifconfig
<BigRedS> nucc1: you can add (presumably arbitrary) commands to /e/n/i using ifup and ifdown
<BigRedS> or similar keywords
<nucc1> cool
<BigRedS> http://www.itsyourip.com/networking/add-persistent-static-routes-in-debian-linux/
<BigRedS> not ifup and ifdown, just up and down
<wintellect> screen-x: no man page for post-up  :(
<screen-x> wintellect: post-up is a section of interfaces
<screen-x> that specifies commands to be run after an interface is brought up
<wintellect> screen-x: ahhhh, awesome!
<wintellect> BigRedS: nice link, thanks too
<wintellect> screen-x: the man page shows:
<wintellect> post-up command
<BigRedS> wintellect: I find with these sorts of things, 'debian' is often a better keyword than 'ubuntu'
<wintellect> therefore, do I:
<wintellect> post-up route add ...
<wintellect> post-up route add ...
<wintellect> or
<wintellect> post-up route add ...; route add
<wintellect> ?
<screen-x> wintellect: ip route add
<wintellect> BigRedS: sweet! I'll try to remember that, thanks
<wintellect> screen-x: "ip"?
<screen-x> wintellect: read it's man page, it replaces route.
<wintellect> oh, ok
 * BigRedS also reads its man page
<wintellect> thanks
<BigRedS> wow. that's the definition of terse
<BigRedS> practically
<screen-x> BigRedS: ip r a
<BigRedS> Ah, that *is* an improvement, then :)
<wintellect> lol
<screen-x> heh the improvement is the ability to do the advanced routing stuff - policy routing, multiple routing tables etc, the terseness is an added bonus
<daubers> dutchie: Next tim I see you, you can have some cake
<dutchie> yay
 * screen-x pretends to be dutchie and goes to visit daubers
<wintellect> screen-x: one final thing
<wintellect> how are multiple routes added?
<wintellect> post-up ip route add...
<wintellect> post-up ip route add...
<wintellect> post-up ip route add...
<wintellect> like that?
<screen-x> wintellect: yep
<wintellect> cool
<daubers> screen-x: Hopefully comeing your way over the christmas period
<screen-x> daubers: though I won't be there...
 * screen-x hopes this information is not used to attack his house. 
 * BigRedS plots
<daubers> screen-x: Ah, off somewhere nice?
<screen-x> daubers: in laws, but they are very nice, so yeah :)
<daubers> heh :)
<screen-x> daubers: what are you up to in wales?
<screen-x> interesting nick..
<daubers> screen-x: Possibly off to Swansea to see a few people
<screen-x> daubers: cool
<daubers> Nice little walk through the gower maybe
<kazade> My latest creation: http://i.imgur.com/uZCSW.png :)
<BigRedS> kazade: the aliens aren't supposed to look lovable
<DJones> BigRedS: Tell that to Alf
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> Kinda cool :)
<BigRedS> OK, the evil aliens you're destroying aren't supposed to be lovable
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<screen-x> kazade: cool :)
<MartijnVdS> it's more fun to destroy lovable things
<screen-x> !?
<MartijnVdS> that's why carmageddon was such a hit
<MartijnVdS> and the "killer bunny" works so ewll
<MartijnVdS> contrast!
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit
 * MartijnVdS is becoming a tvtropes quote cannon, sorry about that
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: tvtropes anonymous are always there to help
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: there's a tvtropes anonymous?!
<MartijnVdS> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropaholicsAnonymous
<screen-x> nope, but I think it would be beneficial for some people ;-)
<kazade> the aliens did turn out looking slightly less sinister than I intended
<kazade> I was going for dangerous killing machines, I think I missed it by the narrowest of margins
<screen-x> hehe
<MooDoo> hello all
<bigcalm> AFternoon
<uraken> hello all
<uraken> does anyone know how i would go about intergrating my edubuntu box with a windows 2008 server?
<uraken> for authenticating logons etc
<kazade> uraken, perhaps this? https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/likewise-open.html
<kazade> erm, that might be old though
<kazade> here's the 10.04 one, probably the same: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/likewise-open.html
<uraken> thanks guys this looks like a perfect starting point
<Azelphur> got a friend who's trying Ubuntu out and he's got a couple Windows features he misses and wonders if it's possible to get them in Ubuntu
<Azelphur> the first one is http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/windows-7-taskbar-multi-window-stack.png
<Azelphur> I know window previous, but I'm not sure about the window highlighting thing when you mouse over the preview
<kazade> Azelphur, Dockbarx can do that I think
<Azelphur> interesting :p
<kazade> Azelphur, dockbarx does the former definitely, but not the latter
<kazade> e.g. it has the previews, but not the fade
<Azelphur> ah :(
<Phineas> guys i have returned
<Phineas> "deep levels of joy" as my teatcher would say
<Phineas> anyone there?
<X3N> nope
<Azelphur> kazade: it does do the fade
<Phineas> "'ve got a platypus controlling me. Now let me sum it up
<Phineas> It was a strange set of circumstances."
<Phineas> I've
<Phineas> quote from I've got a platypus controlling me (phineas and ferb)
<kazade> Azelphur, I can't get it to do it :(
<daubers> Bah, had enough now, definatley time for </wednesday>
<kazade> Azelphur, ah, had to enable opacify!
<Azelphur> hehe
<screen-x> Colleague's ubuntu box is black screening occasionally. ctrl+alt+f1, alt+f7 seems to fix it, but not sure why its happening.
<gord> .... screensaver?
<screen-x> gord: normal mouse / keystrokes don't bring it back.
<gord> nvidia/intel/amd?
<screen-x> s3/via
<gord> oh geez
<gord> abandon all hope ye who enter here?
<MooDoo> gord did that years ago :D
<screen-x> gord: possibly :(
<gord> i'm always surprised how early it gets dark at this time of year, i'll never learn
<MooDoo> it seems strange coming to work in the dark :)
<screen-x> xorg log: http://bpaste.net/show/11526/
<AlanBell> indeed, time to put the chickens in
<screen-x> AlanBell: oven or chicken house?
<screen-x> It may be hardware, TV output is appearing, then disappearing, seems like dodgy hardware behaviour
<Phineas> dinosore?
<screen-x> Phineas: as in is the hardware old?
<neptune> hey
<screen-x> \o neptune
<AlanBell> screen-x: chicken house
<screen-x> AlanBell: I'm sure they're pretty chuffed about that :)
<Phineas> webcam not detected by cheese please help?
<AlanBell> Phineas: you need to provide more information
<Phineas> well i plug my webcam in and cheese says no device found
<Phineas> thats all i can say really
<Phineas> any ideas?
<Phineas> this is the first time i've run cheese since i fresh installed
<Phineas> is this an issue?
<Phineas> thats all i can say for now
<Phineas> any ideas how to fix this?
<czajkowski> anyone going to http://ossg.bcs.org/2010/09/30/open-source-as-open-innovation-creating-and-capturing-value-in-value-networks-london-021210/ next week ?
<Phineas> can anyone help me fix my webcam
<Phineas> ?
<MooDoo> have youdone a google search for anyone having the same issue?
<MooDoo> if people don't reply they are busy, or just  don't know :D
<Phineas> humm
<BigRedS> Phineas: I probably can't help, but knowing the model of the camera will help anyone who can
<BigRedS> It'd also make google searches more fruitful; do you know the model number?
<BigRedS> it might be possible to find out through the command line, if not
<Phineas> well its a Tevion clip-on webcam (don't know the modal)
<davmor2> Phineas: Don't keep asking,  if some one can help they will.  First of all you've given no details in order for us to help,  Linux only covers certain webcams  so the obvious thing to do is look up Ubuntu (version) and (name of webcam) on google
<MooDoo> if it's a udb webcam, then you could tail -f /var/log/messages to see what happens when you plug it in :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm guessing at usb maybe ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, :p
<Phineas> yeah its USD
<Phineas> USB
<MooDoo> Phineas, well get to a terminal, unplug the webcam, type sudo tail -f /var/log/messages  then plug it back in, see if anything there will help you
<popey> also the command "lsusb" will help
<Phineas> no devices other than my in bult card reader
<Phineas> this is fishy or is that the tuna i had for lunch
<BigRedS> could you pastebin the output of lsusb? You should have more than just a card reader in it
<Phineas> http://pastebin.com/eV5vGEfG
<directhex> o_o no keyboard or mouse?
<directhex> anyway, there's no webcam in that
<AlanBell> Phineas: try a different usb port
<BigRedS> it's all about ps/2
<directhex> BigRedS: yes, it is, because it's 1997
 * AlanBell parties like it's 1999
<Phineas> oop! it made my other computer go *boop*.
<Phineas> list doesn't change at all
<AlanBell> plug some other random USB device in to test the port
<Phineas> oop! that worked
<Phineas> list changes
<BigRedS> directhex: :(
<BigRedS> urk, that was a nice chain of errors
<Phineas> this is weird
<BigRedS> I aimed to reply to directhex, decided against it but didn't delete his name, then was sad in the wrong window...
<BigRedS> Phineas: what's weird?
<Phineas> BigRedS,  my issue
<andylockran> Oh my days - rooted my Xperia X10 & removed a load of SE apps and now my battery lifetime is seriously longer.
<screen-x> andylockran: yay, still on 1.6?
<andylockran> screen-x: 2.1
<andylockran> It's just a massive improvement
<andylockran> downloaded z4root from the Market..
<AlanBell> Phineas: you are going to have to be a lot more descriptive about what you are doing and seeing
<andylockran> seriously easy as pressing a button to root
<andylockran> then yeah - was able to remove the stock apps - and now it's a little speedier (though no benchmarking tools to test that claim) but battery life today has been immense
<Phineas> well the list of devices (LSUSB) shows no webcam when plugged in
<Phineas> but its not the port of the webcam
<AlanBell> so you have confirmed the port works by plugging another device in
<AlanBell> and you have confirmed the webcam works by plugging into another computer
<Phineas> yes and it was a sucsess
<AlanBell> was it another linux computer?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  nope the same one (for some reson the  other computer booped at me when i plugged it into this matchine)
<AlanBell> I am not following
<AlanBell> have you confirmed that the webcam works?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  yes cos' it has been knowen to work
<MartijnVdS> maybe the USB port you're plugging it into doesn't work?
<Phineas> nope the port works fine
<AlanBell> lsusb not listing it shows that something isn't working
<MartijnVdS> does anything show up in /var/log/kern.log when you plug it in?
<MartijnVdS> (timeouts or something like that)
<AlanBell> so if the port has been proven to work, lets prove that the camera still works too
<MartijnVdS> It might be that the port doesn't have enough power left to power the device
<Phineas> that brings up errors
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: can you put the output of "dmesg" on the pastebin?
<nucc1> tried using a different cable?
<MartijnVdS> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Phineas> http://pastebin.com/qt4Urpeu
<AlanBell> it worked then
<Phineas> AlanBell,  did it? cheese doesn't reconise the webcam
<AlanBell> [ 4463.151017] sn9c102: V4L2 driver for SN9C1xx PC Camera Controllers v1:1.47pre49
<Phineas> then how come cheese doesn't reconise it?
<AlanBell> that is the video for linux driver loading, and there is a sound line above that, guess the camera has a microphone built in
<Phineas> no itdoesn't
<AlanBell> how come lsusb doesn't recognise it is the interesting question
<Phineas> i'm puzzled as well
<AlanBell> Phineas: ls /dev/video*
<AlanBell> what video devices does that reveal?
<Phineas> ls: cannot access /dev/video: No such file or directory
<AlanBell> ok, well that is cheese not working then
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: don't forget the *
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: you should type "ls /dev/video*"
<MartijnVdS> without the ""
<AlanBell> well spotted
<Phineas> same thing
<MartijnVdS> can't be.. either the error is now "cannot access /dev/video*"
<MartijnVdS> or you mistyped :)
<MartijnVdS> or there's a list of devices
<nucc1> you can use 'gstreamer-properties' to test the video device
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  cannot acsess
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: can you paste it?
<Phineas> ls: cannot access /dev/video*: No such file or directory
<MartijnVdS> weird
<Phineas> sudo?
<MartijnVdS> no, the device files don't exist
<BigRedS> anyone should be able to ls in /dev
<MartijnVdS> being superuser won't change that :)
<Phineas> humm fishy
 * popey bets its a USB 1 port and a USB 2 camera
<popey> although I wouldn't put money on that
<nucc1> the machine seems recent enough to not have usb 1 ports
<nucc1> but i still think its a good idea to try using a fatter usb cable :p
<popey> it has usb2, but I'm thinking that specific port might not be
<Phineas> popey,  some are some arn't
<popey> do you know which specific ones are and aren't?
<Phineas> popey,  yep
<bigcalm> We do usually experience excellent delivery rates so your box will most likely still arrive. By way of apology we've credited your graze account with Â£1.50 (half the value of a graze box).
<popey> and you're using a usb2 one?
<popey> \o/ bigcalm
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> See, it's worth reporting late deliveries
<AlanBell> bit odd that dmsg shows it connecting and loads the kernel module then it silently vanishes
<AlanBell> I would expect some actual errors to turn up somewhere
<buzz_> afternoon/evening
<Phineas> popey,  yeah
<AlanBell> e.g. bug 283900 shows some old issues and outputs that might be expected
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 283900 in Ubuntu "problem with sc9c1xx usb pc camera (dup-of: 280657)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283900
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 280657 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intrepid kernel 2.6.27-6 no supported image sensor dected for SN9C105 (045e, 00f7)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280657
<nucc1> did i do something, or is linux much more seamless inside virtualbox nowadays?
<nucc1> i just installed debian squeeze in a VM, and resizing the window changes the screen resolution. no guest additions installed
<nucc1> ah, the x11 stuff is installed by default. i see
<Phineas> humm fishy issue
<Phineas> anyway we'll talk about this tomorrow bye
<danfish> someone mention fish
<danfish> ?
<davmor2> danfish: down troll
<danfish> grrrr! I'm a troll oh-le-oh, and I'll eat you for my supper! :D
<danfish> ^^^ son's favorite song
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Howto Set Up Drupal Multi-site Configuration with Nginx as Reverse Proxy - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/howto-set-drupal-multi-site-configuration-nginx-reverse-proxy
<KrimZon2> what determines which group a file belongs to when it's created, if the creating user is in more than one group?
<MattJ> They have a primary group
<KrimZon2> ahh, i see
<MattJ> 4th column in /etc/passwd, numeric though
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what time tomorrow?
<daubers> Evening
<KrimZon2> i'm just wondering the most secure way to set up my file server
<AlanBell> KrimZon2: don't plug an ethernet cable into it
<KrimZon2> there's a big archive of files, stuff that gets backed up per machine like its configuration, and stuff that the server downloads automatically
<AlanBell> second most secure way is to only allow SSH and use key based authentication and have good non-technical key policies
<davmor2> AlanBell: You are of course only nearly correct.  don't plug in the ethernet, cover the box in 2inches of lead, 2 feet of concrete, a 2inch layer of lead, 6feet of concrete and then drop the box into the darkest depths of the ocean.
<danfish> davmor2: an ocean on Neptune, of course
<davmor2> danfish: haha
<MartijnVdS> http://www.explosm.net/comics/997/
<finelytuned> evening all
<jacobw> evening
<danfish> lo lo lo
 * jacobw is investigating TomTom's
<danfish> jacobw: why? what have they done?
<jacobw> Hehe, I'm thinking of buying one
<jacobw> Mainly for the traffic updates
<buzz_> popey, you the podcast guy ? really nice job btw. wish id caught it sooner. working my way through the history. very professional. should be on FM!
<popey> hi :)
<buzz_> im the joggler guy
<buzz_> :)
<popey> thats very kind of you to say
<popey> oh! Hi!
<Azelphur> a joggler guy? :D
<popey> you got another mention this week
<buzz_> yeh ?
<buzz_> wow. ill check
<buzz_> D:
<popey> Andy Piper (guest presenter) has got one too
<buzz_> aaah
<buzz_> sorry. rude of me. phone! brb
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> I turned my joggler into an alarm clock, http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/Joggleclock?h=6f93b6 :D
<Azelphur> cron for alarms \o/
<popey> i do like that
 * Nafallo tickles popey all over
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<Azelphur> popey: it's mostly conky
<Azelphur> the mythtv button launches mythtv
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S03E21  The Pipers Price - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/24/s03e21-the-pipers-price/
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-25
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Misattribution; Berlin; Fun Paper - http://philbull.livejournal.com/56139.html
<buzz_> Azelphur, sorry late response lovely alarm clock interface. what is that ?
<Azelphur> buzz_: ty, it's conky
<Azelphur> and a little bit of pyqt for the buttons
<buzz_> i do intend to update my joggler images. im not happy with the distrubution method. clunky. i would prefer to have more stuff as debs, and perhaps an install system to choose usb size and filesystem etc, but of course the windows guys wouldnt be able to use that. also i dont like the alsa error messages, which i want to fix.. i also have nightmares about spending months in the alsa source
<buzz_> heh
<buzz_> thanks.. will check it out
<Azelphur> haha, it just clicked, your the guy who made the 10.10 joggler images?
 * Azelphur is using that :D
<buzz_> yeh
<Azelphur> nice work on that :)
<buzz_> thanks. but still much to be done and so little time. but cheers
<buzz_> and waiting on intel to do a new EMGD
<Azelphur> hehe
<buzz_> because basically your running x.org 1.8 on maverick which normally has 1.9
<Azelphur> I see
<buzz_> my next revision (which will be a debian package as upgrade), will be a erm.. whats the name.. calibration thing
<buzz_> there is a calibrator.. i need to package it
<buzz_> so its a bit more user orientated for user points
<buzz_> i have fat fingers..i get annoyed
<buzz_> heh
<Azelphur> haha, the calibration drives me nuts for scrolling
<Azelphur> so that'll be cool
<buzz_> i hope you understand why i dont customise it much apart from the keyboard etc and the custom packages for light stuff.. i had plenty of complaints about this. i really wanted it so that its just maverick. or just linux mint. so people can do as hey like. my owry was. customising it more,, its no longer maverick and so any guides etc online would stop being relevant and i would have more work :)
<buzz_> just felt like i had to explain this
<buzz_> some users do want a very minimal optimised for joggler thing. i dont really have the time also. although it would be interesting to make of course
<buzz_> Azelphur, are you on the ubuntu uk mailing list btw ?
<buzz_> i just joined and am going to make a post.. hopefully within the ubuntu guidelines that at least one person is not going to like..
<buzz_> needs to be said though..
<Azelphur> buzz_: yea, keeping it close to Ubuntu is cool :)
<Azelphur> I'm subscribed but I don't really follow it
<buzz_> its sort of a personal criticism, but one that affects others. well you will read it shortly. ill keep it polite.. ;-)
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> it is white outside :/
<hamitron> council are dumb, as they grit the road most nights and not been down the main road here yet
<buzz_> mail sent. i hope my next email on the ubuntu uk list is a nicer one :)
<Azelphur> buzz_: hmm, what does the uk team have to do with the joggler wiki though?
<buzz_> daniel case ran it. he is posting about his new site on the list
<buzz_> i saw that a few days ago and wanted to reply
<buzz_> meanwhile perhaps ubuntu users are signing up on his new "linux problems" site
<buzz_> and he is waiting to sell. it who knows. i found it worrying.
<Azelphur> I see, a little worrying indeed
<buzz_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-November/027564.html
<buzz_> hes either just .. well. confused.. or hes not to be trusted.. but either way.. i suggest caution..
<Azelphur> yea I just read that
<Azelphur> indeed
<buzz_> did you see his advert for the jogglerwiki site ?
<buzz_> it says it all really
<Azelphur> nah havn't seen that
<buzz_> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Pls7pWiWh0/TNFHB5upUAI/AAAAAAAAAU4/6Ya_racvg28/s1600/jogglerwiki.jpg
<buzz_> its still online actually https://flippa.com/auctions/109456/Amazing-Niche-Wiki---5000-UNIQUES-PM--100k-page-views-PM---Quick-Sale
<buzz_> i dont want to cause massive problems for this guy, or start some hate campaign, but i think its understandable if you shaft a bunch of guys and sell off stuff like this, that you must be accountable, and then to announce a new project, its only reasonble that people are warned. .. i hope daniel can see the error and avoid a similar thing in the future
<Azelphur> yea, looks like he's in the business of making sites and selling em on
<buzz_> it does.
<Azelphur> oh while your here maybe you can shed light on a minor problem I've been having, I have 2 MicroSD Adapters with 4GB MicroSD cards in them, they worked previously with dysentry's Ubuntu fork, but they don't seem to work with yours :(
<Azelphur> My sandisk cruzer does work, however
<buzz_> i give him credit for dumping the user table. although putting it publically wasnt a great idea. he also put the files online. he forgot the actual wiki data (in the database). lucklly someome else had an xml dump and it was reconstructed
<buzz_> my earlier images might have been too big.. i made an schoolboy error assuming all 4gb ssd were the same
<buzz_> the new images are exactly 4gb. the ld were larger
<buzz_> old
<buzz_> could be that
<Azelphur> ah maybe
<buzz_> some users still have problems. they have 3996gb usb.. hard to know if i should make a 3900gb image then :D
<buzz_> i mean MB
<buzz_> :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> yea I have 1.2.1 atm so I'll download the latest image and give that a shot :)
<buzz_> 3996gb usb. shit.. now im dreaming.
<Azelphur> haha it's not that far off
<buzz_> if you rsync the data off your usb, this http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/source/makeimage.sh will make an image of configurable size
<buzz_> not user friendly. but you can hack it
<Azelphur> cool :)
<buzz_> needs 2 paramters. imagefilename to make and path to rootfs including bootfs in same place.. with trailing slash
<buzz_> in that folder is the kernel etc and patches i use. i keep meaning to write something about this stuff
<buzz_> in that script it has SIZE=4006608896 that was wrong.more than 4gb (disk measurements)
<Azelphur> I see :)
<buzz_> i now user 4000000000.. which any usb stick saying it is 4gb should have
<Azelphur> I'm downloading the latest image now so I'll give that a shot tommorrow, ty :)
<Azelphur> for now I must crawl into bed, 3am :p
<Azelphur> nn :)
<buzz_> hope it works. btw.. i have maybe a couple of debs on my ppa soon
<Azelphur> cool
<buzz_> squeezeplay that uses pulseaudio.. and maybe a couple of other things
<buzz_> not my squeezeplay patch. something i found. it needs some tweaks maybe
<buzz_> hopefully some florence keyboard updates also. i fed some stuff upstream and the author liked at least one idea ;-)
<buzz_> (and i love his keyboard)
<buzz_> i shall end my channel spamming now. cheers. ;-)
<Jora> hi
<czajkowski> Aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> wotcha czajkowski
<AlanBell> morning
 * AlanBell starts scraping the car
 * nigelb waves to czajkowski 
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: see you in a sec
<TheOpenSourcerer> Righto AlanBell ty
<popey> morning
<diplo> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<popey> .o
<popey> hmm, o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xrU5BxaPWo&feature=topvideos - quite good for a youtube music vid
<screen-x> G.. g.. g.. good morning.. its rather chilly here.
<screen-x> Yay, its time for http://uksnow.benmarsh.co.uk/ again :)
<oly> screen-x, not seen that before thats quite a neat site
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers makes teh coffee
<finelytuned> Good morning
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> any recommendations for a podcast manager.   Have been using rhythmbox but downloading is flakey
<MartijnVdS> I use "Listen" + google reader on my Android
<MartijnVdS> +phone
<gord> andylockran, tried banshee maybe?
<MartijnVdS> gord: has banshee stopped crashing yet ? :)
<gord> doesn't crash here
<gord> apart from when pulse goes crazy because i used sdl, stoopid pulse
<MartijnVdS> It crashes randomly for me
<MartijnVdS> but rhythmbox has also developed an annoying issue (it stats all files in my collection every time it changes songs)
<andylockran> gord - happy with rhythbox as the player - just want podcast manager.
<andylockran> I have used banshee for most of my time on ubuntu.. reckon it's worth switching from rhythmbox
<gord> andylockran, eh they are just music players, just saying that maybe banshee might work better for your use case
<popey> andylockran: itunes :)
<daubers> bah, had to give my mac a kicking last night because of itunes
<andylockran> lol
<andylockran> banshee just crashed on first run
<andylockran> oops
<diplo> andylockran, I used to use Gpodder
 * diplo thinks thats what it was called
<popey> yes, gpodder is very good
<popey> best podcatcher on linux IMO
<popey> http://gpodder.net/
<popey> we're listed!
<andylockran> ta
<gord> would be nice if you could  get uupc via ubuntu one, like its music stuff, new uupc episodes get pushed into the service and auto-download to my storage or something
<popey> thats an interesting idea
<daubers> Help take load off mirrors too
<gord> i guess you could accomplish the same thing by having a shared folder with the episodes in, but i don't know if that gets taken up by the music player (thinking of the one on my android phone)
<popey> Hmm, I could make a folder and share it out read only to anyone who asks, and call it "uupc-latest"
<andylockran> Nice thought.
<DJones> popey: Are you ok for a /msg?
<popey> sure
<popey> any time
<Daviey> popey: I have 50GB of U1 storage, so it might be easier for me to do that
<bigcalm> Good morning awake peoples :)
<Daviey> should it be all episodes or the head 5, or something?
<Daviey> (/me is currently only using a few mb of U1)
<bigcalm> It's a Daviey! Run away!
<Daviey> !
<kazade> morning all
<gord> Daviey, if you use mp3 format i can check that it works on the u1 music app
<kazade> Just now I tried to ssh into my VPS with the wrong username, so I pressed CTRL+C at the password prompt, and now when I try to connect with the correct username it says "connection timed out", but it works from another IP address. Any ideas?
<kazade> Does SSH block IPs?
<daubers> kazade: Got something like denyhosts running?
<kazade> possibly..
<bigcalm> Your VPS's firewall might
<kazade> it's running fail2ban..
<kazade> I wonder if that's it
<screen-x> kazade: I think fail2ban uses iptables rules, so you can check if your ip is listed in any of those.
<kazade> screen-x, thanks
<kazade> popey, I remember reading somewhere the commands you passed to ffmpeg to encode your ucasts from ogv. What were they?
<popey> kazade: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535663/
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> kazade: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535666/ packages from medibuntu required for the mp4 encoding
<davmor2> I have to say "narwhals, narwhals, swimming in the ocean, causing a commotion, cause they are so awesome!"
 * czajkowski gags davmor2 and puts him in the corner
<kazade> thanks popey
<davmor2> czajkowski: too late the song is in your head
<daubers> This is quite interesting: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/25/ubuntu_server_takes_off/
<kazade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t980VOov_24 :D
<kazade> no sound yet..
<kazade> or score..
<kazade> or lives..
<kazade> or mothership
<screen-x> popey: do you use podcaster on your phone? I might have to break my embargo on buying apps, as not being able to subscribe in the iOS version of iTunes is really annoying.
<bigcalm> What's a good regex for validating an email address? There is a lot to look at on google
<screen-x> bigcalm: depends how correct you want to be, the set of valid emal addresses is much larger than the set of widely accepted email addresses.
<BigRedS> bigcalm: depends how precise you want to be
<kazade> bigcalm, just make sure there is an @ sign in it, and that the address receives emails
<bigcalm> Grumble
<bigcalm> kazade: I can't check that the address receives email. This is for a client's mass mailing system that sends out thousands of emails a day
<kazade> bigcalm, no registration email? (e.g. click this link blah blah)
<bigcalm> Very old system. Plues there is a 'forced free trial' system that spams people for 2 weeks unless they unsubscribe
<screen-x> bigcalm: please include '+' in the character class before the @
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.preg-match.php#96910
<diplo> kazade, that looks good mate, smooth as well
<diplo> taken long ?
<screen-x> kazade: heh, I didn't click that youtube link in case it war narwhals...
<czajkowski> Aloha folks, alejandraobregon here is looking for NON DEVELOPERS to help with some testing  that will take place in Canonical office next Thursday, if you're interested can you give her a pm please.
<kazade> diplo, probably just over an hour or so, perhaps nearly two
<kazade> I've been adding a line here and there since yesterday (while doing "actual" work)
<bigcalm> Video needed to show a direct hit
<czajkowski> issyl0: popey ^^^^
<diplo> heh
<alejandraobregon> Thanks czajkowski! Would be great to have volunteers!
<kazade> diplo the code is one big hack in one big cpp file
<kazade> :)
<diplo> I'd have it to play as a lunch time waster
<czajkowski> so if you're in and around london or fancy a trip down give alejandraobregon a pm .
<alejandraobregon> potential dates would be: 2nd, 3rd, or 10th...
<kazade> diplo, I should have it finished by Monday, I'll put it in a ppa
<diplo> Cool, will defo give it a blast
<kazade> screen-x, no narwhals ... although I could add some ;)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: how vital is a familiarity with ubuntu? I can think of a couple of people...
<alejandraobregon> BigRedS: the purpose of the research is to ask for your feedback on some things from a community perspective...
<bigcalm> My regex skills wholely suck. Will this allow for + in an address?   /^[^@]+@[a-zA-Z0-9._-]+\.[a-zA-Z]+$/
<MartijnVdS> Don't use regexes to match email addresses
<alejandraobregon> BigRedS: So someone who is an active member of the community would be great... we are also looking for developers/system administrators/it managers that are community members....
<BigRedS> alejandraobregon: ahhh, so community people, then
<alejandraobregon> BigRedS: yes please!
<gord> phew its cold outside today o_O who turned off the heating!
<bigcalm> Chrome asked me if I wanted it to save my credit card details for ease of use. That's a little worrying
<DJones> bigcalm: Slightly worrying, but at least it asked & didn't automatically save them
<bigcalm> There is that
<diplo> any of you peeps web developers in here ?
 * diplo is still awaiting couriers for delivery of my new laptop
<diplo> I suppose I've waited 8 months now, a few more mins/hours isn't the end of the world
<DJones> diplo: 8 months? That sounds like a serious case of lost in the post
<diplo> heh, well that's how long its taken to order the god damn thing, i've pestered the guy pretty much everyday over msn with laptop?
<diplo> This sony is sooooooo bad
<diplo> 13" screen sucks
<diplo> and it's so noisey, runs @ 60'c with nowt running and open an IDE and it hits nearer 90
<BigRedS> diplo: what're you getting that's worth an 8 month wait?
<diplo> nothing special, it was getting the guy to remember to order it
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> oooh
 * BigRedS has biscuits
<diplo> I found my laptop i wanted about 6 months ago, went to nottingham to order it
<diplo> our HQ
<diplo> he ordered 2, one for another guy next day and mine on a normal delivery
<diplo> the place only had 1!!!!!!!
<screen-x> bigcalm: yes because + != @
<diplo> And refused to supply the second unless we paid Â£200 more
<diplo> :(
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: What would you use instead of a regex to match an email address?
<diplo> Think they priced it wrong
<BigRedS> ah, not helpful
<diplo> Anyone use Zend Studio ?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I'd send an email to it
<BigRedS> or at least attempt to. see if you get sent away at the RCPT TO: stage
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: but you need some form of validation before attempting to send an email..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: no
<BigRedS> mm, but that can be quite basic. \w+\@(\w+\.+)?\.\w*
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: \w isn't permissive enough
<BigRedS> or something. I always forget ?,* and +
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<BigRedS> ruddy decaff coffee
<MartijnVdS> you can do a syntax check on an address, but that regex is 3 pages long if you want it to be RFC-compliant
<screen-x> Heh, I read that the other day, it said it wasn't complete because it didn't allow comments.
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<MartijnVdS> the problem is with the RFCs - they're way too broad in what they allow :)
<MartijnVdS> http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/RJBS/Email-Address-1.892/lib/Email/Address.pm
<MartijnVdS> this has a nice buildup of an email address regex
<MartijnVdS> look for $mailbox - it's constructed from bits above it
<MartijnVdS> the big problem is comment nesting (which can be infinite... :)
<screen-x> ah, so regex isn't a powerful enough language
<bigcalm> comments in email addresses?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it's possible :)
<bigcalm> I think that a client in Switzerland is using google translate or such to send me emails
<screen-x> bigcalm: any comedy quotes?
<bigcalm> We kindly ask you to receive a date for the final delivery (before it is better it is, because the timeline is a little pity now ..).
<nigelb> lol
<bigcalm> I think that they are basicly saying "where's our work, bitch?"
<nigelb> bigcalm: I remember helping somone to figure out google translate text from chineese to english
<nigelb> (well, they sent english, but it was hard to decipher ;-) )
<MartijnVdS> Englishish
<DJones> Sheesh, Facebook want to trademark the word "Face" for online messaging sites & services
<andylockran> :p
<DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11837939?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
<andylockran> www.visagebook.com :)
 * DJones notices that www.farcebook.com is registered
<andylockran> look at the source of that page :)
<DJones> :)
 * kazade remembers there's a new Ubuntu-uk podcast
<X3N> moooo
 * BigRedS remembers he must email daviey about mirroring that
<Daviey> :o
<BigRedS> I think it's you I need to email to get a domain name
<BigRedS> well, dns record
<MartijnVdS> "I broke a running record" is considered good
<MartijnVdS> "I broke a DNS record" is considered bad
<kazade> I've been omg!Ubuntu!d http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/ubuntu-invaders-first-the-wallpaper-now-the-game/
<MartijnVdS> OMG!
<BigRedS> Ubuntu!
<kazade> I did tweet them, but I only expected a RT... not an article!
<kazade> remind me to kick Joey for linking in my twitter profile..
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I added you from there to keep on top of dev :)
<kazade> :)
<diplo> otherwise i'll forget about adding the ppa when your finished
<andylockran> guys
<andylockran> any programmers in here that would be able to give me advice on costing for 24 hour technical support.  I'm not sure how much to charge for 24/7
<andylockran> ping Daviey popey UsualSuspects
<popey> no idea
<davmor2> andylockran: Depends how good you are and how likely they are to call you out combined with how much you want to do it and how much they can afford :)
<daubers> andylockran: And the response times you're quoting :)
<andylockran> response time is <1hr
<Daviey> andylockran: ENOTENOUGHBACKGROUND
<davmor2> kazade: this is of course when you get sued by atari for ripping off space invaders ;)
<popey> s/Atari/Midway/g
<davmor2> meh close
<daubers> With Tron Legacy coming out soon, we so need a massive game of GLTron
<UndiFineD> in four dimensions
<popey> Armagetron surely?
<daubers> popey: Thats the one!
<screen-x> <ot> Any recommendations for glaziers? </ot>
<andylockran> screen-x: where?
<screen-x> Cardiff, but some are chains...
<andylockran> screen-x, most people here use chipboard; we don't use windows here
<screen-x> our patio doors have been replaced with chipboard :(
<andylockran> :( how so?
<screen-x> insurance botch, they measured up, came back, removed old doors and discovered that the new ones don't fit..
<screen-x> apt-get install --reinstall patio doors
<andylockran> ERROR!: patio doors required 3m2, only 2.45m2 left on device.
<screen-x> heh
<andylockran> in all honesty, though, I am useless when it comes to Glaziers
<andylockran> do you need new pvc too?
<andylockran> or just windos?
<screen-x> frames, hinges and all.
<screen-x> Probably be the first company listed in google maps, who has a reasonable website.
<andylockran> screen-x: is it just some patio doors you need fitting?
<screen-x> andylockran: yep
<X3N> don't use pvc!
<screen-x> X3N: ?
<X3N> you can use wood frames nowadays, pvc is bad for environment and looks worse
<screen-x> X3N: secure?
<kazade> davmor2, surely they can't sue for writing a clone of a game?
 * kazade gets worried
<X3N> screen-x: don't see why they wouldn't be
<kazade> I might change the name though, wouldn't want trademark infringement :)
<screen-x> kazade: are you planning to sell it? ;-)
<kazade> no
<kazade> maybe a flattr button
<kazade> even if I did, it's not copyright infringement, if the name is different it's not trademark infringement..
<screen-x> X3N: interesting suggestion... All the other windows are PVC so may look a bit odd.
<kazade> and the original was made in 1978, too long for patents.
<czajkowski> peeka boo
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<davmor2> :P
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski, coming to Farnham later?
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's your gob kiddo
<czajkowski> AlanBell: think so. mouth in bits here after meeting today and just had some lunch so not really able to move
<czajkowski> davmor2: sore
 * daubers hands czajkowski some string and points at the door
<daubers> DIY Dentistry FTW!
<czajkowski> davmor2: sorely tempted
<czajkowski> AlanBell: just had a very productive morning :D
<davmor2> you're blaming me for stuff I haven't even said now czajkowski
<amarcolino> Hi anyone care to help me understand why my dyndns hostname is pointing to the wrong machine considering both were setup in the same way
<X3N> maybe the way you're getting the host ip is wrong
<X3N> you need to have a look at the log really
<DJones> amarcolino: Does your router forward forward the traffic on that port to the wrong machine? I have mine set up so that it forwards my dyndns hostname & port to a specific ip address within the home network, so http://address.go.dyndns.org is forwarded to http://192.168.0.x by the router/modem, maybe the wrong machine has picked up that ip address
<amarcolino> DJones: I have setup my router with the dynamic service for dyndns and added each ip address than setup ddclient with the hostnames and opened ports both on the router and firewall however it wont pick up for the second machine, i've looked at the conf files its correct and the router seems correct just can't understand
<andylockran> I hate it when databases get to big
<andylockran> 2.2 million records and I have to add a column :)
<DJones> amarcolino: I've never had two machines using dyndns so I'm not sure about that
<amarcolino> DJones: no worries must be something either on the router on machine or machine just need to find out what it is
<DJones> Its not something as daft as the wrong port number in the router for the second machine?
<screen-x> amarcolino: do you have multiple public IP addresses?
 * screen-x pokes his loadavg and tells it to go below 5. 
<amarcolino> screen-x: nope or should I say I have but the rest aren't being used due to the current network configuration
<BigRedS> screen-x: /etc/init.d/* stop ?
<screen-x> BigRedS: chrome, openoffice, X, and apt seem to be the culprits.
<screen-x> amarcolino: if your only using 1 public ip, you should only need to run the dyndns client on one machine.
<screen-x> s/your/you're/ (before dutchie pops up)
<amarcolino> screen-x: you mean ddclient should only be on one machine ok, however I have turned the other machine off and restarted the second, checked setting again and tried the host name nada, it just wont pick it up
<dutchie> screen-x: oi
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Catch you later czajkowski - have to go and collect several kiddies and the misses over the next couple of hours.
<BigRedS> Anyone know of a way to have firefox insert a tab character on hitting tab, rather than switching to the next element?
<DJones> amarcolino: Do you have two dyndns accounts?
<screen-x> amarcolino: can you set your router as the dynamic dns client, so that you don't have to run ddclient on either machine?
<amarcolino> DJones: nope just one with two hostnames for each machine
<amarcolino> screen-x: I have I am also using the ddclient not sure I doubt that both are blocking each other since the first machine didn't have a problem connecting
<screen-x> amarcolino: dynamic dns providers tend to get upset about duplicate updates
<amarcolino> screen-x: what does that mean? It's part of the service they provide, what they allow one hostname per-account to only one machine when their are routers that can route the hostnames to other mahcines?
<amarcolino> screen-x: would, doesn't make sense but than a lot of things that should make sense don't
<jgjones__> Greetings...
<jgjones__> a question...
<jgjones> I've got a mate that's going on about a password-less Ubuntu - but not as root...
<jgjones> I'm probably suffering from a lack of sleep or something but in general, passwd etc doesn't allow for a blank password.
<jgjones> as well as the user account panel.
<jgjones> so, with all that - is it actually possible to run Ubuntu as a user with admin access but not as root and no password?
<jgjones> aka - no password prompting (mimicing the "disable UAC" on Windows)
<jgjones> bad bad idea security wise I know, I just wondered if it's possible for that to be done in Ubuntu and how easy?
<screen-x> amarcolino: I'm not sure I understand what you're doing, maybe someone else can help?
<screen-x> jgjones: you can have autologin.
<screen-x> jgjones: system > administration > login screen > login as blah
<screen-x> jgjones: for 10.04..
<jgjones> screen-x that's what I thought he was doing.
<jgjones> but he's not getting any password prompts so I suspect he is running as root without realising.
<jgjones> I don't have access to his PC to confirm
<screen-x> jgjones: it depends what he's doing, if he's not doing any stuff that requires root (installing packages etc) then its possible to use the machine without being prompted for a password
<amarcolino> screen-x: no worries I've stopped doing what I was doing going out for a bit than going to walk naked down the beach... wait I'm in the UK and its dam cold :D
 * screen-x dreams of fresh air
<jgjones> screen-x, yup he is running as root. Time for a visit me thinks as he did a system update without requiring a password prompt
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Rolling Releases Make no Sense for a Linux Distribution Like Ubuntu - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/rolling-releases-make-no-sense-linux-distribution-ubuntu
<Darael> jgjones: Delayed response, but it would be possible to set up (I /think/) by modifying the sudoers file so that one still has to use sudo (or gksu, etc) but doesn't get prompted for a password when one does.
<BigRedS> I used to find playing the "find the window resizing handle" game a bit of a challenge, but it's getting boring now
<bigcalm> In nano, how to do you write without exiting?
<Darael> ^O
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<Darael> No probs.
<shauno> I know no-one's asking, but a predictable release schedule is what moved me from debian to ubuntu.  so boo to rolling releases
<bigcalm> Next nano question: is it possible to show line numbers? :)
<Darael> Not AFAIK, but you can get it to show the current cursor position (including line number) with ^C, and you can toggle that always-on-or-off with alt-C or by starting it with -c
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> Oh, didn't know about that toggle
<bigcalm> Handy
<daubers> Does anyone else see something wrong with the higest and lowest temps on http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/hi/news/newsid_9223000/9223841.stm?
<popey> lowest is -23, highest is 21?
<shauno> doesn't look too crazy, given they're only for november
<diplo> yay laptop has finally turned up!
 * popey suspects daubers didn't see the '-'
<diplo> Wat a calamity to install extra memory though
<daubers> popey: http://www.daubers.co.uk/~matt/what.png
<daubers> I don't see no -!
<popey> there is
<popey> on the line above
<shauno> after the colon
<popey> line wrapping issue
<daubers> Hmmm.... stupid chromium
<screen-x> 40 degrees is quite a range
<shauno> I would actually consider that a bug.  there's no space in the source there, so that shouldn't wrap mid-word
<czajkowski> issyl0: you going to digital surrey tonight ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: mis-read that as digital slurrey that had a whole new connotation to it
<czajkowski> davmor2: take your mind out of the gutter please
 * bigcalm chuckles
<popey> czajkowski: where is it?
<czajkowski> looks liek I wont make the xmas party, difference on flights on the 21st and 22nd is about 180 quid
<davmor2> czajkowski: it is I was thinking the electronic version of a bric-o-brac sale, digital crap :D
<czajkowski> popey: http://digitalsurrey.co.uk/events/IdentifyinginfluencersaspartofyoursocialmediastrategyDigitalSurreyevents.php
<popey> oh god that sounds tedious
<screen-x> 16GB SDHC Class 10 for ~Â£18 http://www.mymemory.co.uk/SDHC/Transcend/Transcend-16GB-SD-Card-(SDHC)---Class-10
<bigcalm> xchat didn't like the ---
<bigcalm> Oh, no, it was the brackets
<bigcalm> Silly xchat
<screen-x> That should [999] My new camera :)
<popey> well...
<bigcalm> That site looks quite like ebuyer
<czajkowski> popey: aye not one I'd have gone out of my way to go to, but never been and want to meet people
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B002WE4HE2
<popey> even cheaper
<popey> much cheaper
<screen-x> \o/ cheaper
<bigcalm> Are they a brand to trust?
 * popey hugs invisible hand chrome extsnsion for finding that deal :D
<popey> love it
<screen-x> if they can do me an lp-e5 for Â£10 I'm all over it.
<screen-x> (battery)
<screen-x> Â£5 shipping
<popey> amazon is cheapest for that battery
<popey> followed by dabs
<bigcalm> What does it hook into? Kelkoo, google?
<popey> no idea
<popey> hmm, wonder how much batteries for my digital video camera are
<popey> 7 quid!
<screen-x> I'm a bit scared of lithium batteries for Â£4.32, I feel it might set fire to my house
<popey> good in the snow
<bigcalm> popey: that's a great extension. Ta for the info
<popey> np
<popey> hello LNX11010
<popey> hullo MooDoo
<MooDoo> hello popey how are you today?
<popey> not bad, glad tomorrow is friday
<davmor2> popey: lowpricememory.co.uk have a similar offer :)
<popey> heh
<MooDoo> popey, tell me about it, i'm working lates this week so finishing at midnight
<czajkowski> half day tomorrow :D
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski 
<czajkowski> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ubuntu-development-with-daniel-holbach worth watching now
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm glad I'm not you this week :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, why is that?
<davmor2> MooDoo: working till midnight, no thanks, however you'll be over the moon to not be me next week stripping artex from the walls of the new flat
<MooDoo> davmor2, eeeeek
<bigcalm> A serialized string contains both ' and ". What should I use to put it in a variable?
<Phineas> help for yesterdays issue please
<BigRedS> Phineas: Anyone who remembers the issue well enough to know what you mean by "yesterday's issue" is likely to be of no more use today than they were yesterday. Anyone likely to be more useful than those of us on yesterday is likely to not know what you mean by "Yesterday's issue".
<DJones> Phineas: You'd be better restating the problem, people may not have been in the channel yesterday and won't know what you're talking about
<Phineas> my webcam wont work the drivers load in the kernal log but no device is in lsusb
<Phineas> that was the issue yesterday
<DJones> !hcl | Phineas Have you checked the Ubuntu hardware database to see if there any issues with that specific webcam?
<lubotu3> Phineas Have you checked the Ubuntu hardware database to see if there any issues with that specific webcam?: For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
<bigcalm> Does the USB device show up in /var/log/messages when you plug/unplug it?
<Phineas> nope but kern.log 9or something like that) says the dirver was loaded
<Phineas> strangely
<popey> bug 280657
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 280657 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intrepid kernel 2.6.27-6 no supported image sensor dected for SN9C105 (045e, 00f7)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280657
 * popey points Phineas to that
<bigcalm> If you tail /var/log/message and plug/unplug a USB device, it should show some change
<popey> 17:21:36 < AlanBell> [ 4463.151017] sn9c102: V4L2 driver for SN9C1xx PC Camera Controllers v1:1.47pre49
<BigRedS> tail -f
<popey> from yesterday
<Phineas> like popey said that was in one of the logs
<MooDoo> Phineas, have you done the tail -f?
<popey> MooDoo: it is detected but no /dev/video* device is created
<MooDoo> ah ok
<Phineas> what do i do again?
<popey> is it plugged in?
<Phineas> popey,  yes it is
<popey> Phineas: in a terminal type this:-
<popey> ls -l /dev/video*
<popey> do you see any output?
<Phineas> popey,  cannot acsess file:
<Phineas> no such file or directory
<popey> ls: cannot access /dev/video*: No such file or directory
<popey> like that?
<Phineas> popey,  just like that
 * kazade is wondering how he managed to travel back in time 24 hours...
<popey> Phineas: file a bug
 * Phineas tells kazade that he has a time matchine
<popey> in a terminal, type "ubuntu-bug linux"
<popey> it will open launchpad in a browser
<popey> and if you have an account, sign in, if you do not, register, then file the bug by giving a description such as
<popey> "sn9c102 webcam not detected on Ubuntu 10.10"
<popey> with a description which is meaningful
<Phineas> popey,  but it used to work fine untill i  did a fresh install
<popey> what version of ubuntu?
<popey> (the old install and the new one)
<Phineas> popey,  old one was from some time last year new one is 10.4 LTS
<popey> you're on 10.04?
<Phineas> popey,  i think so
<popey> type this in a terminal:-
<popey> lsb_release -a
<popey> it will tell you for sure
<Phineas> popey,  10.04.1 LTS
<Phineas> lucid
<popey> ok
<popey> being blunt. You have a cheap webcam which is made from shit components by a manufacturer who sucks
<popey> http://sonix.sourceforge.net/
<popey> there is a driver
<popey> which may or may not work
<Phineas> popey,  thats quite true
<ging> omg popey swore in #ubuntu-uk
<popey> oh great
<popey> that driver has moved somewhere
<popey> http://sn-webcam.sourceforge.net/ might be better
<gord> oooh smp health in minecraft now
<popey> :)
<Phineas> thats not a Tevion driver tho
<screen-x> you need at least two processors to calculate your health?
<popey> its not a tevion camera
<popey> the guts are made by someone else
<Phineas> popey,  but it says tevion on it (now i'm confused)
<popey> i am about to go home so can't help you, maybe someone else can talk/walk you through getting this driver working....http://sn-webcam.sourceforge.net/#download
<bigcalm> Anybody got a moment for some mysql agression? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/536363/
<popey> Phineas: your pc might say dell on it, doesn't mean dell make it
<popey> Phineas: the internal guts are made by someone else
<popey> directhex: please poke your co-worker to fix http://sonix.sourceforge.net/
<Phineas> popey,  possible,
<popey> directhex: broken link to http://www.mnementh.co.uk/sonix/sn9c102.tar.bz2
<popey> Phineas: many cheap webcams use the same chip inside
<Phineas> popey,  we're working to fix the site soon. oh i get what your saying now
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=399109 might help
<popey> however I am going home now
<directhex> popey: poked
<ging> that's how popey finds the time to playing mining games
<Phineas> ahh i can't figure out what driver
<bigcalm> Updated mysql paste: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/536366/
<screen-x> bigcalm: I was wondering what it was supposed to look like..
<screen-x> bigcalm: does the on update trigger work, despite not displaying?
<Phineas> my sound has gone all low pitched or is it the headphones beeing broken
<screen-x> bigcalm: when reading the mysql man page it is worth reading the right version, I was using an old version of mysql the other day that didn't have "create user", you had to use insert or grant.
<Phineas> and no its not the headphones
<bigcalm> Humm, it did update
<Phineas> this needs to be fixed quite soon or its gonna drive me up the wall
<bigcalm> Now I have to look for what else might be causing this system to not work on live but work on dev :S
<Phineas> anyone help me now
<Phineas> what has happened to my sound
<Phineas> its gone low pitched and disorientated at the same time
<bigcalm> Phineas: try a reboot
<Phineas> ok guys i'm now rebooting seeya in a bit
<bigcalm> They could do with saying "please" and "thank you" a little more :S
<screen-x> bigcalm: out of interest, why are you using mysql server from source?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I'm not, it's what's on the client's server
<bigcalm> Sorry, I'm not out of choice
<screen-x> ahh
<Phineas> still the same thing#
 * screen-x notes Phineas' username
<Phineas> why wont the damn thing work now
<bigcalm> screen-x: DOH!
<bigcalm> screen-x: that will explain a lot
 * bigcalm ignores and goes back to work
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/10/5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/
<popey> haha
<popey> oggcamp explosion
<Phineas> but i need help with this this is Sirius  situation
<bigcalm> popey: I suggested the oggcamp mug and you said it was too small. I guess AlanBell didn't get that memo ;)
<popey> AlanBell: considered putting the pic.. not inline in the recipe?
<MooDoo> Phineas, if people aren't helping it's because they don't know
<popey> Phineas: you could try #ubuntu
<DJones> bigcalm: We make a similar thing, but use a 1L mixing bowl :)
<Phineas> only certen things sound odd others (system sound firefox) are fine
<AlanBell> yeah
<popey> hmm, i cant fix that page
<Phineas> humm weird things happen it worked this moring
<AlanBell> "Sling everything in a slightly bigger mug than I used, mix it up and zap it in the microwave on full tilt for 3 minutes."
<screen-x> cake :)
<popey> :)
 * bigcalm wants cake
<popey> i suspect I shall make that cake tonight too
<screen-x> didn't take you long to get home popey :)
<ging> why has no one ever told me before you can make chocolate cake in a mug
<screen-x> ging: health reasons
<kazade> I have a massive chocolate fudge cake at home that I'm working through :)
<kazade> I made it on Sunday, now it's a race against time before it gets stale
<popey> cake can be revived
<popey> stale is just a state of mind
<kazade> hehe
<popey> also, remind me to talk to you later about a game idea I have kazade :D
<screen-x> kazade: tupperware is your friend
<kazade> ok :)
<ging> cake talk has made me hungry, i am off to wander the streets in search of pizza
<MooDoo> someone say cake?
<davmor2> cake
<screen-x> MooDoo: no, you must have misheard
<Pendulum> cake is a drug
<screen-x> the cake is a lie
<popey> h03m ty3m
<popey> o/
<daubers> CAKE \o/
<bigcalm> Grrrrrrrrr
<bigcalm> screen-x: my actual issue came down to the client's server being in the states
<Phineas> i like cake
<bigcalm> I've used UTC_TIMESTAMP() everywhere I can. But for this one query, I had to use CURRENT_TIMESTAMP()
<bigcalm> Most irritating
<Phineas> no help in #ubuntu just the please wait reminder
<bigcalm> Phineas: if you wait long enough, somebody might be able to help you :)
<BigRedS> Phineas: have you tried a forum or mailing list? those are more persistent so you'd get more eyes per asking of a question
<Phineas> fixed it sound was all the way to the right not in the middle
 * Phineas just fell of his chair
<bigcalm> Phineas: sounds like you need to go to sleep
<Phineas> bigcalm,  mabe i do
<Phineas> mabe i fell off cos' i wasn't sitting on the chair correctly
<andylockran> I need a project :)
<bigcalm> andylockran: I have several I don't want ;)
<screen-x> bigcalm: ahh, glad you found it...
<screen-x> andylockran: LDAP+Kerberos user management system for ubuntu server?
<andylockran> screen-x: I probably know enought LDAP to be useful... where do I sign up?
<andylockran> screen-x: can you mentor me
<screen-x> andylockran: It needs creating, so launchpad!
<screen-x> andylockran: hmm, I would need to be mentored!
<andylockran> really?
<andylockran> do they have mentoring help with ubuntu projects?
<screen-x> andylockran: I was thinking some kind of django app that allows you to create users and groups, set and change passwords. Which would then go off and make the necessary changes in slapd and the KDC.
<screen-x> I just haven't had time to write it.
<andylockran> screen-x: if you want to do it in django - then I'd love to work with you on it.
<andylockran> I have experience with django
<andylockran> but only my own projects
<andylockran> so be good to see how a coder writes a django project.
<screen-x> andylockran: I think you overestimate my skills, but I'd be up for having a go.
<andylockran> screen-x: awesome
<andylockran> screen-x: what's your background?
<screen-x> andylockran: well, I did CS at uni, and now working as a sysadmin for a small NHS lab.
<screen-x> andylockran: how about you?
<daubers> andylockran: I'd love a gtk app that did that
<andylockran> well what's the proper way of dooing this?
<andylockran> writing a backend library, then writing a django and then a gtk frontend?
<screen-x> Sounds logical
<andylockran> daubers: you in?
<screen-x> andylockran: We'd have to think carefully about how to do the slapd and kdc updates in a secure way.
<daubers> andylockran: If I ahd some spare time I would be...
<screen-x> !info python-kerberos
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] CouchDB in Ubuntu 10.04 - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2010/11/25/couchdb-in-ubuntu-10-04
<lubotu3> python-kerberos (source: pykerberos): A GSSAPI interface module for Python. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1+svn4895-1 (maverick), package size 19 kB, installed size 108 kB
<screen-x> !info python-ldap
<lubotu3> python-ldap (source: python-ldap): LDAP interface module for Python. In component main, is optional. Version 2.3.11-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 72 kB, installed size 344 kB
<andylockran> yeah, that's a start :)
<andylockran> I've used that a little
<screen-x> At least they exist :)
<screen-x> I guess the way to start is diagrams, goals etc.
<andylockran> How shall we do this?
<andylockran> Is there already an ubuntu server management framework. I know oly did alot of work on usm, but what do ubuntu-server expect to use?
<oly> what what :p
<oly> i am still working on it
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: landscape?
<oly> very slowly,
<screen-x> oly: what are you working on?
<andylockran> ubuntu server manager
<oly> web server interface for ubuntu
<oly> was for home server or small buisness that was my main goal
<oly> got dhcp pxe dns daap themes profiles to name a few things :)
<screen-x> oly: what's it written in?
<oly> python
<screen-x> ubuntuservermanager.org?
<oly> or python javascript html pretty much purely
<oly> yeah
<oly> but i dont really touch the site to be honest, to busy working on other stuff
<andylockran> it's amazing how much more I understand usm now I come back to it.
<oly> i was considering reworking the site to actually use the server interface in place of drupal
<oly> so i could demo some of the stuff on the site
<screen-x> Connecting to www.ubuntuservermanager.org|81.171.46.170|:80... connected.
<screen-x> HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
<andylockran> oly: could you migrate usm to django :p
<andylockran> use the business logic we've got there
<oly> probably not easily
<oly> its kind of developing into its own framework as it is
<andylockran> how good are the docs
<screen-x> oly: are you using twisted or something like that?
<oly> docs :p
<oly> nope pure python no frameworks
<andylockran> just looking at your dns plugin.. everything is still shared with me on ubuntu one :)
<screen-x> miniwebserver.py
<oly> yeah probably
<oly> thats just standard python webserver with some hackery so it behaves with ssl certificates
<oly> heading home in a sec but i will be back later if you want to ask me any question
<screen-x> I guess the problem with using a standard web server, and a framework like django is that it makes it really hard to package.
<oly> i can also do a commit as i have been a bit lapse with commiting stuff
<oly> i did have a script that auto generated packages but probably broke as i have changed so much
<screen-x> andylockran: Maybe the ldap+kerberos stuff should be done at the pam level, so that the standard tools for modifying users, have the desired effect on the ldap and kerberos stores.
<andylockran> how do you mean?
<screen-x> Thanks for answering questions oly :)
<andylockran> pam-authconfig - setting that up with LDAP is pretty straightforrward
<oly> by the way i made a start on an ldap module at one point
<andylockran> yeah, I should probably just take a look at oly's stuff later tonight
<oly> for managing user, no idea how far i got with that, as it was quite a few years ago
<andylockran> well screen-x join the usm launchpad team and we'll jump in together
<andylockran> oly - can you update the launchpad page with latest code links .etc?
<oly> well i am going now be back in like an hour also be on #ubuntusm later to keep it of this channel
<screen-x> andylockran: hmm, I've got authentication/authorisation working against pam and kerberos, but it was always read-only, I haven't been able to set it up so that using standard tools to modify/create/delete users works on the ldap and kerberos back ends.
<oly> yeah i will sort some stuff out later,
<andylockran> oly, ok gd gd
<andylockran> screen-x: good to go then :P
<screen-x> andylockran: but my question is.. is doing it with a web/gtk interface attacking the problem at the wrong level?
<screen-x> if we solve it at the pam level, then there are 1000s of existing tools for modifying users that will work. (eg System > Administation > Users and Groups)
<screen-x> However that may not be possible, as I'm writing pam modules is not easy, as they are probably C?
<screen-x> when I say not possible, I mean for me..
<screen-x> !info python-pam
<lubotu3> python-pam (source: python-pam): A Python interface to the PAM library. In component main, is optional. Version 0.4.2-12.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 13 kB, installed size 116 kB
<andylockran> screen-x: pam_ldap.so is written
<andylockran> !pam-ldap
<andylockran> !info pam-ldap
<lubotu3> Package pam-ldap does not exist in maverick
<andylockran> !info pam_ldap
<lubotu3> Package pam_ldap does not exist in maverick
<screen-x> !info libpam-ldap
<lubotu3> libpam-ldap (source: libpam-ldap): Pluggable Authentication Module for LDAP. In component main, is extra. Version 184-8.4ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 51 kB, installed size 296 kB
<andylockran> that's it :)
<screen-x> andylockran: It maybe that I just haven't understood how to use it bidirectionally.
<andylockran> I guess what's needed is a ldap-backed to the users and groups gtk gui
<andylockran> gnome-system-tools
<screen-x> andylockran: It depends if it is hard wired to read /etc/password etc, or if it uses all the same mechanisms as pam.
<screen-x> andylockran: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-system-tools/tree/src/users/user-password.c mentions pam and backends..
<andylockran> screen-x: looking at gnome-system-tools from launchpad
<andylockran> may go upstream if it appears obvious to do so
<screen-x> I'm just cloning that tree so I can have a better look, but I have to go in a few mins.
<andylockran> screen-x: join #ubuntu-usm anyhow - probably good place to talk about this
<screen-x> ok
<dutchie> AlanBell: that homeopathy article has the most ridiculous SEO rubbish on it ever
<AlanBell> it is the most ridiculous thing altogether
<screen-x> andylockran: http://library.gnome.org/devel/liboobs/stable/OobsUser.html#oobs-user-set-password I'm off now.
<AlanBell> dutchie: of course what they haven't realised is that if you dilute nuclear waste until there is none of it left then it becomes even stronger!
 * AlanBell suggests exporting homeopaths to rouge states in future
<dutchie> AlanBell: like ones by the Red Sea?
<AlanBell> s/rouge/rogue/
<Pendulum> AlanBell: a family friend is into homeopathy. her homeopath gave her daughter something that's apparently made from cancer tissues. And yet she still hasn't figured out that this is bunk
<jacobw> I can top that, I know a woman who is taking 'oxygen tablets' on the advice of her homeopath
<jacobw> Apparently the oxygen that we breath in isn't 'potent' enough
<andylockran> ok, screen-x gst is for workstations not servers :p
<AlanBell> Pendulum: and the really sad thing is the number of people who consider it harmless, or plausible. It totally isn't harmless when a placebo is selected over evidence based treatment for something like cancer
<dutchie> AlanBell: hadn't thought of it like that
<dutchie> but isn't homeopathy generally used in addition to conventional medicine?
<jacobw> dutchie, no, its usually used by people who shun conventional medicine
<jacobw> dutchie, it is basically a conspiracy theory
<MattJ> That's quite a generalisation of a large group of people :)
<jacobw> http://pastebin.com/aHEZMbvv
<jacobw> ^ this is an email from I've received from a homeopath
 * jacobw is just on the way out the door though
<daubers> Evening
<Darael> One problem that doesn't often get considered is that - regardless of whether it works or not - the fact that many people believe it doesn't casts a shadow over other forms of medicine that are /known/ to work.
<MattJ> jacobw: having known people who have worked in the "Industry", I'm not at all surprised by those comments - it's not all roses :)
<MattJ> But either way, people should be free to make their own decisions, and that's why we're in this channel, and we should probably resume Ubuntu discussions :)
 * MattJ gets annoyed easily by circular arguments where both sides lay the claim to science
<Darael> Oh, you're not the only one there.
<shauno> I have little faith in real medicine either :/
<shauno> (not that it doesn't work.  I just don't like teaching people that a little pill can fix everything.  I think it's bad from an education PoV.)
<ball> I am typing this on my brother's netbook, running UNR 10.10
<ball> It's very shiny!
<diplo> evening all
<ball> mornin' diplo
<diplo> Stateside ball ?
<ball> diplo: Yup.  It's afternoon here, but it's always mornin' somewhere.
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Just got my new laptop, god how are these firms allowed to install so much shit on these machines!!!!
<ball> diplo: the software vendors pay the manufacturers to load them up with cruft.
<diplo> :(
<ball> Just wipe it and install Ubuntu! ;-)
<diplo> I do want to keep win7 so creating my own streamlined dvd of there disc
<diplo> Doing that now, have 10.10 on disc, was going to resize the partition but doesnt seem so easy in the installer anymore?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/ :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ^
<diplo> So going to reinstall win7 sans rubbish and make the partition smaller
<MartijnVdS> diplo: that can remove loads of rubbish from win7
<diplo> looks nice, having not used windows in over a year and old company my policy was always a clean install from a image i';ve not had to do this in 5-10 years
<diplo> :D
<MartijnVdS> there's also ninite.com -- it goes the other way :)
<MartijnVdS> it installs useful software you might want in one go
<diplo> ah yeah remember seeing that on a blog a while ago, cheers
<diplo> I like that a lot actually :)
<diplo> just downloaded half those apps about 20 mins ago
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Wats the betting i've broken my image by playing with it :D
<diplo> What do we reckon on partitioning, 250gb hdd, 80gb for windows and rest for ubuntu
<diplo> Expecting to spend majority of my time in ubuntu but want to leave some space
<MartijnVdS> I tend to go for 50/50
<MartijnVdS> I never use much space in Ubuntu anyway, unless I'm downloading big things
<diplo> I suppose I don't either really, it's what my server/usb drive is for.
 * diplo wishes he had installed imgburn to burn this dvd, it's taking forever with this proprietary app
<MartijnVdS> windows 7 can burn ISOs without help
<MartijnVdS> http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windowsexperience/archive/2009/04/13/burn-iso-images-natively-in-windows-7.aspx
<ball> I like that UNR still has virtual consoles, so I can run irssi full-screen
<ball> ...also handy for taking over the world.
<diplo> been stuck at 100% for about 4-5 mins now, and a cancel button has appeared
<diplo> :D
<MartijnVdS> *cue horror music*
<diplo> I think they have packaged the wrong disc!
<diplo> 32bit win7 installed, supplied dvd is win7 64
 * MartijnVdS got both discs
<diplo> right going to reboot and see if my disc works, if not will boot from manaf one
<diplo> bbs
<andylockran> gd luck
 * screen-x just got a cheque from insurance company for Â£6 and 99p, better not spend it all at once..
<BigRedS> screen-x: what on earth did you have insured that it was worth a claim of Â£7 for?
<screen-x> BigRedS: it was part of a larger claim, they, seem to be doing it in bits.
<screen-x> comma fail.
<BigRedS> Ahhh
<oly> screen-x, i commited the core files for usm, not done any of the plugins yet though
<oly> gona tidy up the ldap plugin so its using more recent changes to the core then will commit for you and andylockran to have a look at
<screen-x> oly: cool, was it #ubuntu-usm you mentioned earlier?
<oly> #ubuntusm
<screen-x> that'll explain why its only me there then..
<oly> :)
<popey> ooo oly you still working on usm?
 * BigRedS investigates this new acronym
<BigRedS> er, initialism
<oly> yeah ever so slowely :p
<oly> most of the changes are probably all in the plugins and not commited cuz im lazy :p
<BigRedS> ubuntuservermanager.org is taking forever to load for me... Is it a webmin style server manager, or more a Puppet sort?
<oly> webmin style
<oly> yeah the website has issues :p
<BigRedS> haha, it's almost ironic :)
<oly> i dont maintain it really at the moment, its using drupal and runs out of memory and dies at least i think thats whats happening
<oly> not looked into it a great deal
<shauno> I dream of the day ubuntu-server has a frontend like osx-server :/
<shauno> (yes, I realise that shunts me into heretic status.  I'm used to it)
<BigRedS> from what I gather, that's something of a fashion with ubuntu UIs ;)
<oly> but simply put web interface for dhcp pxe dns daap torrents and anything else i write a plugin for aimed as a home server but can expand for other tasks
<BigRedS> that sounds genuinely quite handy.
<oly> well you need a lot of knowledge to maintain everything from the command line, and i am ever so forgetful :p
<screen-x> oly have you had much discussion with the ubuntu server people? have you done most of the usm development yourself?
<BigRedS> haha, what kind of maturity's it at? sounds quite young :)
<oly> done it all myself so far spent about 3 years on and off working on it, if nothing else i am learning a great deal :-D
<oly> but one developer equals very slow progress with work and life in the general taking up most of my time
<screen-x> yes, life does rather interfere with projects ;-)
<oly> yeah to many ideas and not enough time :p
<oly> got a printer program i want to do some more work on as well
<diplo> evening
<bigcalm> Morning
<j0nr> evening
<j0nr> am annoyed with Avidemux.... it used to have the perfect option.... Auto > FLV
<j0nr> whatever video I loaded into it, if I used this option, it would spit out a usable (on my online gallery) FLV
<j0nr> now the menus have changed and that option seems to have gone
<j0nr> :(
<diplo> anyone use xchat on windows ?
<diplo> and purchased a key ?
<bigcalm> I use ychat and never paid for it
<diplo> well always used xchat on *nix so thought id support developers when i use it on windows
<diplo> just lost my key
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> y-chat doesn't need a key
<diplo> Think i found an anser to my Q though, xchat.lic is what i wanted
<diplo> Well if i don't find my license i'll use that then :D
<bigcalm> http://www.silverex.org/download/
<diplo> ta
<diplo> suppose i ought to reboot and then install ubuntu
<diplo> bbiab
<popey> j0nr: you want to convert video to flv?
<popey> j0nr: i have a nice script which makes working flv files
<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535663/ j0nr
<ibbo> evening
<ibbo> I recently reinstalled, I still have my old home on another partition. I'm doing my first packaging and I want to sign it with my PGP key, so I need to import it from my old home to my new home, anyone know where it lives?
<bigcalm> ibbo: does the other partition show up on mount?
<ibbo> yes, I can access it from /media/longUUID
<bigcalm> Ok, so you weren't asking where the old partition was :)
<ibbo> no, more how to get my private key back
<ibbo> ah, I think it might be easier than I thought, it looks like I created the key on my laptop, which I didn't reinstall, so I should be able to export it from there
<ibbo> \o/
<KrimZon> what's the command to add a daemon to the /etc/rcX.d/ folders?
<KrimZon> nm, found it
<czajkowski> aloha
<jacobw> hi
<BigRedS> I'm trying to get dovecot to auth with MySQL but it appears to be resolutlely holding on to the default settings. I've found a couple of people noticing this on the net, but no resolution. Anyone got any ideas?
<BigRedS> the big problem currently is it expecting field and table names that I don't have
<diplo> nearly finished installing everything \o/
<MattJ> BigRedS: wrong config file or you're not restarting/reloading the right process
<BigRedS> MattJ: I've been going through the files for a bit, and can't find any mention of the tables it's looking for, tried grepping /etc/dovecot/* for the table name. And the only dovecot service I've got it /etc/init.d/dovecot, which claims to restart 'imap/pop3 server'
<BigRedS> I was expecting a /etc/init.d/dovecot-imapd , but I'm guessing there isn't one now, or wherever I did come across that was a peculiar system
<MattJ> pgrep -fl dovecot
<BigRedS> /usr/sbin/dovecot ; dovecot-auth and dovecot-auth -w
<AlanBell> czajkowski: o/
<jel> Anyone know of something that can unzip pkzip v6.3 files on linux?
<BigRedS> jel: IIRC, 7zip can
<jel> unzip complains that it can only handle v4.x.
<AlanBell> jel: so "unzip foo.zip" isn't working for you?
<jel> AlanBell, nope
<jel> :(
<jel> BigRedS, will give that a shot, thanks
<BigRedS> jel:      not only does it handle 7z but also ZIP, Zip64, CAB, RAR, ARJ,
<BigRedS>      GZIP, BZIP2, TAR, CPIO, RPM, ISO and DEB archives.
<BigRedS> so perhaps not
<MattJ> BigRedS: stop dovecot, check that they're all gone
<jel> BigRedS, working fine; excellent :)
<BigRedS> MattJ: yeah, they do go
<BigRedS> Hm. Bedtime methinks. Mail can wait until I'm more awake
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-26
<ball> hello stooj
<ball> Hello ivanka
<ivanka> hello ball
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> time to go to work again
<ball> I have a ten hour shift scheduled for today
<ball> It's likely to be hellish.
<AlanBell> morning all
<ball> Hello AlanBell
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell
<nigelb> AlanBell: How was the cake? ;)
<AlanBell> nom nom nom
<nigelb> darn it, so it wasn't a lie
<AlanBell> any ideas on how to get the christmas party out to more people? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/568/detail/
<nigelb> AlanBell: advertise in tube stations? :p
<AlanBell> any ideas that won't bankrupt me?
<AlanBell> I think I will mail surrey and hants LUGs
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> if anyone else wants to mail their local lug about the christmas event that would be great
<AlanBell> greater london LUG in particular
<DJones> AlanBell: Just a thought, could you add it to the calendar/fridge if it hasn't already been done
<AlanBell> will do
<DJones> AlanBell: How are the chickens doing in this weather?
<AlanBell> they are fine, they can handle really quite cold weather
<DJones> I'm surprised at that, I felt sorry for our dog last night, let him out about 10pm and he decided he was going to have a drink from the waterbowl outside, a couple of sips & he came back in to drink out of the bowl in the house
<AlanBell> they run quite hot and have a fast metabolism
<AlanBell> as long as you feed them enough they stay hot
<MartijnVdS> so they'll be fine as long as you keep feeding them
<DJones> :)
<AlanBell> they just don't like snow very much
<DJones> I can understand that, whenever I've seen chickens, they're always pecking at the ground, snow would make that difficult
<screen-x> morning :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<DJones> Oh boy, how would anybody be forgetful enough to do this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-11843543
<bigcalm> Somebody rich enough to not think that 80k of notes is worth taking care of
<DJones> bigcalm: I know of people who've left a briefcase/files/phone on top of the car, but I've still to meet somebody with that kind of "loose change" (In this case, very loose change)
<diplo> morning all
<popey> morning all
<Daviey> I left things on a car roof... a take away pizza, drove about 20m's before it blew off... also a baby bottle, drove about 200m's then realised - still there ;)
<bigcalm> Morning kids
<Daviey> popey: it's a *good* morning?
<Daviey> subjective, i know
<bigcalm> Daviey: TFIF...
<bigcalm> There is goodness in that
<AlanBell> Daviey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-11843543
<AlanBell> just to make you feel a bit better
 * AlanBell reads back a bit further and finds that link again :)
<daubers> Morning
 * AlanBell isn't fully awake yet
<Daviey> poor AlanBell  :)
 * AlanBell blames TheOpenSourcerer and czajkowski
<gord> -5 degrees today :(
<gord> gords operate an an optimal temperature of around 18 degree's! completely voiding any warranty here
<nigelb> oh dear
<MartijnVdS> sounds like nice temp for a run
 * nigelb sends gord link to flash downloader
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels rather worse for wear this morning. Not really sure why.
<bigcalm> Certificate: VeriSign Secure Site Pro (www.domain.com)
<bigcalm> The term of this certificate renewal: 1 year
<bigcalm> The price for this certificate renewal: Â£599.00
 * bigcalm shudders
<MartijnVdS> is that an EV cert, or what?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> One of our larger clients with a RackSpace server
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I need to set up a shared directory for customer. three users, all in a shared group. But I need the "umask" for that shared directory to be 775/664. Any suggestions?
<MartijnVdS> set the umask for those users to 002 instead of 022 ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope. That will apply to *all* files/dirs they create anywhere. I want it to work just in the shared dir.
<MartijnVdS> I don't think it works like that
<MartijnVdS> if the users are in their own primary group, 002 vs 022 doesn't really matter
<MartijnVdS> as long as you make the directory owned by the correct group and g+s (I think)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fair point I suppose. SGID on the dir and
<TheOpenSourcerer> then it  should be OK.
<kirrus> Good Morning :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: according to wikipedia:
<MartijnVdS> The setuid permission set on a directory is ignored on UNIX and Linux systems [2]. FreeBSD can be configured to interpret it analogously to setgid, namely, to force all files and sub-directories to be owned by the top directory owner.[3]
<bigcalm> Boss isn't in his office so I'm tweeting him to quit at 5pm today. Isn't tech wonderful?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Oddly enough, that doesn't work on a mac
<MartijnVdS> daubers: macs use hfs, which is poo
<PeteB> Where in XChat's preferences is the setting that has me join this channel automatically upon startup of XChat?
<AlanBell> hi PeteB
<daubers> MartijnVdS: hfs+ is even worse
<MartijnVdS> daubers: exactly!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: On a mac you can only have access to files you either own, or are assigned to your primary group
<AlanBell> PeteB: it automatically tries to join #ubuntu-countrycode on irc.ubuntu.com which ends up bouncing about to here
<BigRedS> Oooh, that is nifty
<PeteB> AlanBell, but that can be turned off though can't it?
<AlanBell> yeah, edit-preferences-networks
<AlanBell> find the ubuntu network and edit it
<AlanBell> untick automatically connect to network
<finelytuned> o/
<PeteB> AlanBell, thanks. I've joined Freenode, so I looked at the prefs under the Freenode channel, but confusingly it's under 'Ubuntu Server'
<daubers> Right, I need new music
<daubers> suggestions?
 * BigRedS is having a Fear Factory day
<screen-x> daubers: propeller heads
<daubers> hmm
<screen-x> zero7
<daubers> screen-x: properller heads not in U1 store
<bigcalm> Groove Armada
<screen-x> bigcalm: good choice :)
<daubers> screen-x: Nore is zero7
 * bigcalm puts on Love Box
<bigcalm> Hot Chip
<screen-x> daubers: air?
<bigcalm> Good choice
<daubers> screen-x: nope...
<daubers> Might end up being bellowhead at this rate
<ali1234> wow U1 really sucks
<screen-x> daubers: hayseed dixie?
<ali1234> otoh they have "BrownoutÂ -Â Aguilas & Cobras - Remixed and Regrooved" which spotify doesn't have... looks interesting
<ali1234> wait, pre order?
<ali1234> how can you pre order on a download store? more to the point, why would you want to?
<daubers> screen-x: I have _all_ of hayseed dixie
<screen-x> daubers: that's why I suggested it :)
<daubers> Just a shame the tron soundtrack isn't outyet
<gord> ali1234, they run out of downloads sometimes so if you pre-order then you are guarunteed a copy of course
<ali1234> lolz
<screen-x> "run out of downloads"?
<daubers> screen-x: Bandwidth is expensive :)
 * BigRedS decides to have a hayseed dixie day instead
<daubers> Hmm.. apparently I've bought 121 tracks from U1
<gord> i have 250 from U1, they make it too easy to get lots of tracks, you'll see an album for like Â£5 and then it turns out its got another cd's worth of remixes and then another cd's worth of instrumentals or something, so you end up with lots of content for pretty cheep
<gord> just wish i could get foreign music more on u1
 * daubers wonders how much space his U1 is using at the moment
<BigRedS> Is there a U1 client for non-ubuntus?
<DJones> BigRedS: There's a windows beta
<DJones> but a closed beta
<daubers> Hmmm... 40%
<gord> but you can ask to be in it i think
<BigRedS> I want a debian one, I'd imagine the ubuntu one should almost-just-work thinking about it
<DJones> BigRedS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Windows
<gord> .. right yeah you can just download ubuntu one from the launchpad page and run it
<BigRedS> It's just a bunch of python and couchdb or something isn't it?
<ali1234> why doesn't it have a label search?
<DJones> gord: I sent an email asking about the windows beta, but haven't had anything back yet, if its like the ubuntu font, it might go to ubuntu members first
<DJones> Saying that, looking at that link, it does say it'll be a few weeks before they send info out
<gord> the u1 beta's have tended to be pretty all inclusive, even for features that are paying members only
<daubers> .... scary http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
<gord> pretty sure we need to start a "get popey to wear one of those for charity" campaign daubers
<bigcalm> Oh my
 * DJones pokes eyes out
<daubers> gord: While he's on his brompton?
<BigRedS> I wasn't aware there was such an overlap of cyclist/ubuntu-users
<bigcalm> "popular deman"?
<bigcalm> d
<DJones> daubers: I thought the brompton got stolen
<daubers> DJones: Thought he'd got a new one?
<BigRedS> And they're hincapie, it's not like they're just rebranded cheap stuff
 * TheOpenSourcerer would look "interesting" in that attire.
<DJones> s/interesting/*******
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> zoiks!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if it has a padded cod-piece?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: nope. I believe the phrase is "onlookers can tell if you're Jewish"
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<bigcalm> ;)
<BigRedS> Nah, the padding'll be too high for that sort of thing. They do make you look rather well-endowed, though
<DJones> I think I'd rather have http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=766 than the cycling suit
<daubers> DJones: I tend to prefer http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=774
<DJones> daubers: I prefer the other type, I've had a rucksack type for 10 years since I got my last laptop & hardly ever used it
<daubers> DJones: I use mine every day :) The side strap ones tend to hurt my shoulders after a while
<DJones> Aww, Bernard Matthews has died
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh No. The end of the Turkey Twizzler
<daubers> DJones: Bit of unfortunate timing too.
<DJones> daubers: Turkeys everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief
<daubers> DJones: They'll have to vacuum pack and freeze him to make sure he's still fresh at christmas
<daubers> Someone in the office asked if he'd be cremated, or just lightly basted
<DJones> heh
<selinuxium> DJones, daubers: I have the messenger bag for day to day, which is fine. I do wish I had the  rucksac though for gym days as the Messenger bag does no have that much room for much else whence my laptop is in.
<MangledBody> Hi everybody, can I ask you for help?
<BigRedS> MangledBody: yup. That's what the channel's for :)
 * popey tickles kazade 
<MangledBody> BigRedS: Thank's :) On German channel they told me to f*ck off :D // I have a problem with jahshaka
<MangledBody> BigRedS: I can't install it on my Ubuntu, but the .exe in Windows runs well :(
<kazade> hi popey :)
<kazade> incoming tweet for you
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> what is jahshaka?
<BigRedS> MangledBody: what is jashaka? How are you installing it? Does it produce any errors?
<kazade> btw peeps, game updates: http://blog.kazade.co.uk/p/ubuntu-bug-blast.html
<kazade> it's almost looking like an actual game..
<kazade> I've never finished an actual game before :p
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: we are having turkey tomorrow, might make some twizzlers with the leftovers
<jussi> AlanBell: http://sourceforge.net/projects/jahshakafx/
<MangledBody> AlanBell, BigRedS: Jahshaka is free alternative to Adobe after effects, I don't know any other alternative :( It's difficult, some jackass wrote that readme and I don't even know what to install, it's written in Python
<AlanBell> wow, just seen the link to the Ubuntu mankini! gulp!
<popey> i think people on identi.ca and twitter are lying to me
<jussi> popey: wow thats new :P :P
<popey> I absolutely do not believe that on Ubuntu you can plug a display into a running laptop and with _zero_ interaction get working dual screen output
<jussi> popey: you can.
<AlanBell> you can, sometimes
<popey> video or it didnt happen
<AlanBell> and sometimes it randomly does other things
<MangledBody> popey: Why not? On Debian it's common
<jussi> popey: dualscreen == clone in this case
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Mankini, surely you jest???
<AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
<popey> no, not clone, side by side
<jussi> hrm, Ive not done that
<AlanBell> popey: for me sometimes it works, but it is a bit clone-happy
<selinuxium> AlanBell, GTFO!
<jussi> clone is easy, and fairly normal
<popey> i still dont believe it until i see it
<diplo> intel works better than any other card
<AlanBell> clone is a pain
 * popey tickles moreati 
<AlanBell> selinuxium: and they come with a side order of "how much!!!"
<moreati> howdy, thanks for the answers. Now I know to keep trying with my heap-chinese adaptor a bit longer
<MangledBody> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOzRCBGDVaE What about this?
<popey> MangledBody: that (without watching) looks like he's using some special config
<popey> I am very specifically talking out of the box experience of plugging a screen into a running laptop
<popey> no additional software, no config, no button presses, no gui screens, zero interaction _whatsoever_
<MangledBody> popey: Yes he does, but he explains everything:) And of course, there must be other way:)
<AlanBell> I think that just does clone the first time
<popey> I dont care what he explains
<popey> my point is not that it's "possible"
<AlanBell> however if you have told it what you want sometimes it does what you want and sometimes goes back to clone
<popey> but the out of the box experience
<MangledBody> popey: I don't understand you I'm afraid :(
<ali1234> yes, the laptop should just magically know where the external monitor is physically positioned, and set up the displays accordingly :)
<popey> ali1234: left and right is of course a separate issue
<popey> and indeed I appreciate it cant guess that
<popey> getting something _on_ the display is my point
<ali1234> by default you get a clone
<popey> MangledBody: install ubuntu, boot to ubuntu, plug in second screen, what happens
<popey> ali1234: not on nvidia you dont
<ali1234> nvidia sucks
<DJones> popey: I don't think I've had that work using a projector as a 2nd screen unless it was plugged in before boot
<MangledBody> popey: I think the main signal will go to the plugged monitor
<AlanBell> clone by default on intel
<ali1234> because intel drivers are half decent
<AlanBell> 1/4 decent
<popey> the use case is using an external projector
<moreati> AlanBell: do rate any driver higher?
<popey> so the left/right thing is a non-issue for me
<ali1234> miles better than anything for nvidia, which in turn are much better than anything available for ati...
<AlanBell> moreati: nope
<kazade> popey, just remove the binary driver and try it!
<popey> i will play tonight
<AlanBell> popey: there was a session at UDS about this use case and the general dual screen functionality
<popey> the dual-dialog method that osx uses is very neat
<davmor2> morning all
<moreati> davmor2: see disclaimer in #wolveslug
<davmor2> moreati: what disclaimer
<screen-x> selinuxium: its far too close..
<brobostigon> morning all.
<screen-x> oops, was scrolled up
<screen-x> lo brobo<tab>
<brobostigon> o/ screen-x
 * popey notes brobostigon is now kim
<brobostigon> urgh,
<brobostigon> brb
<DJones> Must be his weekend name
<kwork> he turns chinese on weekends?
<popey> o_O
<gord> okay, scaring my cat in my kitchen where there is hardwood floors is my new favourite thing. she power slides round that corner
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> cats powersliding is ace
<popey> my son powerslides too
<brobostigon> better, :)
<popey> makes the squealing tyres noise when he goes round corners
<bigcalm> Any Brummies know of a good carpark when going to the Alexandra Theatre?
 * popey pokes Mez for bigcalm 
<popey> and andylockran
<davmor2> bigcalm: what's your definition of good?
<davmor2> bigcalm: where you coming from?
<bigcalm> davmor2: not too far away and not a tiny multi-story that will scrape and dent my 407 estate
<bigcalm> davmor2: near Telford
<brobostigon> i had to bring back an irssi conig from years ago, as my backup didnt bck it up right,
<bigcalm> So will be joining the M6 from J 10a
<brobostigon> config*
<bigcalm> We usually exit the M6 on J6
<davmor2> bigcalm: could be crap outta luck I think there all pretty much multis,  personally I grab the train or tram when I need to go to Brum it's just easier
 * daubers notes that it is cold outside
<bigcalm> davmor2: We use the Sealife Centre multi-story. That's big enough for me
<bigcalm> google maps says 18 min walk from there though
<bigcalm> http://bit.ly/g3Ogx5
<DJones> bigcalm: If you're going to walking for 18 minutes in current temperatures, you need some of the Ubuntu cycling clothing :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> We'll keep warm
<bigcalm> If we had more time, we'd got to Woktastic for sushi before hand
<bigcalm> I wonder if it'll be open after the gig
<gord> time to upgrade to natty i think. wish me luck
<screen-x> There is an eeepc here that his windows on it (for propriety data logger), which has Microsoft SQL Server 2005 compact edition installed, is that a MS equivalent of sqlite?
<daubers>  and that works?
<screen-x> daubers: No idea if it works, was looking through apps list to find something to delete..
<daubers> Heh.. was just surprised it ran at all
<diplo> screen-x, i believe compact edition is 2k5 but limited to 1million rows
<screen-x> diplo: interesting.. I wonder why its on an eeepc
<diplo> Use it for loads of things now, ms just trying to join on other dbs
<diplo> lots of small windows apps use it
<diplo> there is a db manager so you can look at the data if you want
<MartijnVdS> sqlite \o/
<DJones> screen-x: Just looking on my XP laptop, thats got it installed as well, although its only 1.74Mb
<screen-x> DJones: yeah, is a similar size here.
<hoover_> hi folks
<diplo> in my old job it was on 90% of 100 laptops i'd say
<switchgirl> #justordedpizza
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Hi czajkowski Are you pain free now (after seeing your recent tweets)
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<UndiFineD> radiant czajkowski
<czajkowski> DJones: bit better
<czajkowski> looking at my laptop and being confused as to why it wont work at home but does work in the office. So I can connect to the internet  at home and at work, but at home I get 19% packet loss and am the only one in hte house getting effected by it
<DJones> czajkowski: Any connection at all at home, or just very flaky
<ali1234> czajkowski: typical wireless driver bugs, it's no different on windows
<czajkowski> ali1234: no not at all typical
<czajkowski> it's worked for the last 2 weeks but has stopped now on both machines.
<ali1234> if you have a broadcom card, try changing the channel on your AP
<ali1234> if you have an atheros card you are probably out of luck
<czajkowski> DJones: tried wireless and plugging directly into the wall
<bigcalm> Any recomendations for 15" ThinkPad in the 400 to 600 price range?
<gord> packet loss just internally on the network or externally as well czajkowski?
<czajkowski> gord: externally when I ping say skynet.ie I get a 12% loss I can see the router and I got some of my mail down last night but today nada, cant get either of my machines to see any site or ssh anywhere
<czajkowski> wondering is it to do with my U1 synching ?
<popey> czajkowski: mtr skynet.ie
<popey> i see lots of packet loss there
<popey>  9. 193.1.104.2                                                                                                                    93.8%    17   14.2  14.2  14.2  14.2   0.0
<popey> that host
<czajkowski> aue
<czajkowski> aye
<ali1234> same
<popey> so not your local network
<czajkowski> hmm thanks popey
<czajkowski> but still doesn't explain why I cant get get t a site like google
<popey> mtr google.com
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> also need to buy a power supply again for toshiba
<popey> do you see a pattern? :)
<gord> u1 syncing shouldn't affect things too much, i never notice it running on my terrible broadband
<czajkowski> popey: at work now, so no issue.
<popey> oh, the issue was at home?
<czajkowski> aye
<popey> I blame your fellow housemates
<czajkowski> and only me in the house is getting it
<czajkowski> aye I do too, but they say they're not downloading anything...
<popey> they have computers they left on at home whilst out
<popey> they lie :)
<czajkowski> they may get strangled
<popey> watch the network traffic with tcpdump :)
<bigcalm> Any thoughts? http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=15%22+thinkpad+4gb&cid=18380514123569847503&os=tech-specs
<czajkowski> hmmm
<popey> bigcalm: you know my thoughts on this matter :)
<directhex> bigcalm: what use case?
<czajkowski> popey: still got your tosh ?
<popey> I do
<popey> wanna borrow the psu?
<bigcalm> directhex: my father to replace his now dead 15" toshiba laptop
<bigcalm> popey: I seem to have forgotten
<gord> not fond of laptops anymore,  never found one i actually like
<czajkowski> popey: aye if it;s the same as http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=TOSHIBA+EQUIUM+L40-17M+MAINS+CHARGER+POWER+SUPPLY&x=0&y=0 till I order one
<popey> bigcalm: name a fruit
<bigcalm> popey: iSheep :P
<popey> pass czajkowski
<czajkowski> ok thanks
<popey> you're welcome to come over tonight
<popey> czajkowski: of course I need to check to see if my laptop has the same psu :S
<popey> dunno if it does
<czajkowski> popey: ok if you check and it does yes please shall pop over
<popey> i am off to lunch, if you want to google to check, my tosh is a Portege M400
<gord> decided to run iograph today, only been running for an hour but its surprising how little i use the entire bottom of my screen, maybe thats why i never liked docks
<bigcalm> directhex: I was wondering if that was a suitable price for the spec
<directhex> bigcalm: no idea, i don't care about that sector of the market
<bigcalm> Fury muff
<czajkowski> popey: tis :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - PostgreSQL does 1billion queries a day: http://www.osor.eu/news/fr-open-source-database-new-engine-of-frances-social-security
<bigcalm> Flipped back to this channel and my mind added an extra t to czajkowski's line
<bigcalm> It must be Friday
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: feeling better
<TheOpenSourcerer> Getting there... Slowly.
<czajkowski> clearly it was a dodgey 1
<Mez> bigcalm: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=Station+St,+Birmingham,+West+Midlands+B5+4DS,+United+Kingdom+(Alexandra+Theatre)&hl=en&geocode=Fe6_IAMd5fXi_w%3BFWS4IAMdIv3i_yFEt4FUmoBhRw&mra=prev&dirflg=w&sll=52.476945,-1.902325&sspn=0.002415,0.004823&ie=UTF8&z=18
<Mez> grr
<Mez> bigcalm: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=Station+St,+Birmingham,+West+Midlands+B5+4DS,+United+Kingdom+(Alexandra+Theatre)&hl=en&geocode=Fe6_IAMd5fXi_w%3BFWS4IAMdIv3i_yFEt4FUmoBhRw&mra=prev&dirflg=w&sll=52.476945,-1.902325&sspn=0.002415,0.004823&ie=UTF8&z=18
<Mez> ffd
<Mez> bigcalm: http://is.gd/hOQa3 <-- there we go
<Mez> It's the same thing, but a nicer address
<bigcalm> Mez, aha. Ta
<bigcalm> Hopefully not full on a Friday night
<Mez> bigcalm: there's also a little one under the bridge by the entrance to that - but that's usually full.
<Mez> bigcalm: if all else fails...
 * czajkowski gets her thinkpad next week 
<Mez> bigcalm: if all else fails - http://is.gd/hOR4F <-- the Bull ring car park
<Mez> there used to be a lovely car park at new street station, but it's closed
<bigcalm> I thought there was one there. Never used it as I was always passing through New Street
<Mez> was being the key word, unfortunately.
 * daubers beats his head against the keyboard
<daubers> ahhhh..... bug fixed
<Mez> wow,
<Mez> you must have a pointy head to fix a bug doing that
<daubers> The bug was "Programmer frustated at stupid code on STUPID BLASTED SERVER DOING STUPID BLASTED THINGS"
<bigcalm> I believe that there is a subway visit in my near future
<lnx1010> the httpd channel states 'Due to recent spam attacks etc etc you need to register...'
<lnx1010> does anyone know how?
<MartijnVdS> !register
<lubotu3> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<lnx1010> it gives someones name but no way of saying how to register
<lnx1010> Thank you!!!
<lnx1010> if someone could help that would be great!!!
<lnx1010> Hello all, If i have several sites under my /var/www/ directory such as /var/www/site1 and /var/www/site2 etc how can i create website addresses for those sites so they can be browsed externally such as http://site1.company.com and http://site2.company.com? at the moment i can only get to them by internal ip such as http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/site1 and http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/site2
<screen-x> lnx1010: virtual hosts
<screen-x> lnx1010: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/examples.html
<daubers> He'll also need to make sure he has DNS entries
<lnx1010> thank you both!
<lnx1010> which file do i need to amend for the dns entries? (sorry!!! noob on site!)
<screen-x> lnx1010: depends if you run your own dns server
<lnx1010> (i will read the link sent to me) basically in a windows server domain environment but im running my own ubuntu 10.04 server which ive started to install lots of apps on such as phpshceduleit, openfire etc, also some websites, but not setup anything dns wise
<lnx1010> the it manager said he could link site1.company.com to the ip address i have but id need to do something with the hosts file?
<X3N> dns is usually provided by your domain registrar
<lnx1010> or linux equivalent.
<lnx1010> he doesnt know linux
<screen-x> lnx1010: so do site1.company.com and site2.company.com already resolve to your machine's ip?
<lnx1010> no, the way i browse to them (internally) is http://ubuntuserveripaddress/site1 and http://ubuntuserveripaddress/site2 etc
<X3N> who have you bought the domains from?
<screen-x> lnx1010: ok, well, it sounds like you can put in a request to your it manager to sort out dns, you just have to sort out the virtual hosts.
<daubers> lnx1010: If it's internal than you need to speak to the manager chap to sort out the dns
<lnx1010> thank you all! the it manager said he can create the http://site1.ourcompany.com and http://site2.ourcompany.com addresses, but i would need to sort the 'hosts' file out on the linux server, so im guessing this is what you all mean by virtual hosts? (hes not here to ask exactly what he said, sorry!)
<diplo> from a quick read up yeah lnx1010
<diplo> im guessing just internal
<diplo> So he will create a a record and point at the ip of your server
<screen-x> lnx1010:  If you have internal dns working, I'm not sure why you would need to add entries to the hosts file on your server.
<diplo> the virtual host file once set up will work out where to send the request to
<screen-x> if you are using apache, virtual hosts are usually defined in /etc/apache2/sites-available
<lnx1010> looking at the link sent to me from screenx, the first section 'server configuration' makes sense, so i will give that a try!
<diplo> Also might be worth looking at the ubuntu wiki on apache set up, slightly different than default apache i belive ( not built from source for a long time! )
<lnx1010> ok, great! thank you all for your help, i will look at the link properly as well as the /etc/apache2 files to see if i can unserstand and get to work.
<lnx1010> help much appriciated!!!
<screen-x> :)
<lnx1010> appreciated!
<daubers> lnx1010: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/httpd.html
<daubers> From the official docs
<lnx1010> ok, thanks daubers!
<DJones> How can an organisation think to patent opensource code? http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/26/1319239/Tandberg-Attempts-To-Patent-Open-Source-Code I thought the idea was that the open source licencing would get a way from patents
<MartijnVdS> no
<daubers> Whats the ls flag to show you the destination of symlinks?
<kazade> -l ?
<kazade> that's a lower case L btw
<daubers> Hmmm, not a symlink then
<daubers> I'm trying to suss out why, when I have luks crypted partition, in /dev/mapper I have sda5_crypt and sda5_crypt_unformatted
<daubers> doesn't seem to make much sense
<daubers> especially when they both hold the same filesystem
<MartijnVdS> "unformatted" doesn't mean "no mkfs" but something about dm_crypt's storage layout
<MartijnVdS> I think
<daubers> Interestingly it's also showing it as sdb5_crypt (it's original name before another disk was removed)
<hoover_> cheers all, have a nice weekend!
<screen-x> daubers: could grep for it in rules.d
<daubers> screen-x: Doesn't appear to be any FS related things in rules.d
<daubers> (assuming we're talking /etc/udev/rules.d)
<screen-x> daubers: /lib/udev/rules.d
<daubers> nope
<daubers> Any idea how device mapper pulls out it's names?
<daubers> as it does appear twice in /dev/disk/by-id/
<screen-x> bug 502665
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 502665 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "cryptsetup: "c_swap_unformatted" still exists after system boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502665
 * screen-x rearranges the furniture while no one is watching
<BigRedS> Hmmm, something looks different in here
 * DJones trips over a coffee table that wasn't there before
<daubers> Anyone know how often portable gas heaters are supposed to be serviced?
<DJones> I would have thought it was annually
<DJones> If its in rented accommodation/workplace
<DJones> Ah. Calor recommend portable heaters are serviced every 2 years - unless the manufacturer recommends servicing more frequently.
<DJones> daubers: ^^
<MooDoo> hi all
<finelytuned> hi
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<daubers> DJones: The man at calor didn't seem impressed when I said it'd been sat in a garage for 20years....
<DJones> :)
 * popey wonders if kazade is about
 * kazade wonders why popey wants him
<kazade> :)
<davmor2> kazade: the correct answer is always NO!
<bigcalm> Run for cover, while you still can
<kazade> :)
<daubers> davmor2: Unless somebody asks if you're a god.
<daubers> The Ghostbusters proved that
<davmor2> daubers: but you're not I am :P
<daubers> :p
<daubers> davmor2: Do us a favour... makes us a cuppa...
<davmor2> done
<davmor2> you need to come over here to drink it though :P
<daubers> curses
<diplo> starting to snow :(
<bigcalm> Lucky bugger
<bigcalm> What's your location?
<diplo> Nope, off for beers soon, gotta walk
<diplo> ba14, near bath
<Phineas> anyone know whats wrong with my mp3 player error: 'can't read from hard disk'
<davmor2> Phineas: at a guess, it can't read from the hard disk
<KrisWillis> Oo, you're ~30 miles away from me diplo, I might start to see some soon then
<Phineas> i know that but is there a way to make it work again
<diplo> WSM supposedly getting it heavy and bath is getting thicker flakes now
<Phineas> davmor2,  i know that but is there a way to make it work again
<KrisWillis> Phineas: Do your mp3s have the correct permissions set on them?
<diplo> look at the pathand see if you can actually browse to it
<Phineas> KrisWillis,  what?
 * diplo cant get used to new laptop space bar
<popey> is that like the cantina?
<Phineas> computer fails to reconise mp3
<DJones> diplo: That sentence should have been "diplocantgetusedtonewlaptopspacebar"
<diplo> heh, I had already fixed some mistakes, missed one :D
<diplo> Space bar is to short!
<KrisWillis> Phineas: If you right-click on an mp3 and select properties, then look in the "Permissions" tab - Do they all have at least "Read" permissions?
<Phineas> KrisWillis,  computer wont pick up mp3 player at all
<DJones> Phineas: It might help if you gave some details? mp3 player software or hardware (like ipod etc), if hardware, what make & model etc, how does it connect to the computer etc
<KrisWillis> Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about an application, not a piece of hardware
<screen-x> Phineas: whack it http://gigaom.com/apple/ipod-death-and-rebirth/
<Phineas> its a Archos gmini xs 200
<bigcalm> Phineas: such compact devices are harder to fix. I would sugget buying a replacement
<Phineas> bigcalm,  i'd ether get this one working or get a new one which ever is easyer
<bigcalm> Buying is always easier if you have money
<screen-x> It appears to have snowed. The window in my office is so high, that I can only see the ground if I stand on my chair :(
<davmor2> Phineas: You'll need to learn to be more specific when you ask a question.  Is it that you have a device that isn't working, or you plug the device into you computer and Ubuntu doesn't see it, or Ubuntu sees it and can't access it?
<Phineas> it keeps making bip bip bip noises from the hard drive
 * bigcalm wants snow
<bigcalm> Damn it
<KrisWillis> Not a good sign, Phineas
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't so when you get it keep it okay ;)
<Phineas> and says usb connected hard drive
<KrisWillis> My MacBook HDD when tits-up the other day, and that's the only sounds I can get out of it :P
<screen-x> KrisWillis: expensive metronome..
<bigcalm> Heh
<Phineas> this is on every time i press a button
<KrisWillis> Indeed, (un)lucky really, as I kept meaning to put it on eBay
<Phineas> it just made a tiny clunk (like its trying to tick)
<Phineas> i waner hoe i can fix it
<MooDoo> Phineas, have you used google?
<screen-x> Phineas: new player, or new hdd.
<Phineas> MooDoo,  suggests installing the frirmwere again
<Phineas> well it is on its 2nd hdd
<screen-x> Phineas: or option 3.. use a phone instead of a dedicated mp3 player
<bigcalm> Phineas: do you repair things for other people or are you just really really really unlucky with hardware?
<Phineas> phone dont do usb connect
<screen-x> ??
<Phineas> bigcalm,  i try to fix things people give me usally works
<moreati> Phineas: Yes they do, eg. HTC Desire or nearly any Android phone
<davmor2> Phineas: what is it you do to HDD's?
<Phineas> ahh but mine is ment to do usb connect but it didn't come with a cable (motorola v 545
<Phineas> davmor2,  use them
<davmor2> Phineas: Yeah try not using them as Ice Hockey pucks they might last longer ;)
 * daubers goes home before wanting to murder more servers
<screen-x> Using, and not using HDDs are both good techniques for killing them.
<Phineas> well luckly i do have a few good HDDs
<Phineas> 'bip bip cluck-tick' ERROR
<Phineas> thats what the hard drive in my mp3 does
<screen-x> Phineas: unfortunately I only know how to fix 'bip bip, cluck-buzz'
<bigcalm> Bin
<Phineas> when i move the player arround it makes bip noises
<bigcalm> Don't move it then
<davmor2> screen-x: I think you'll find you know how to fix clunk-buzz not cluck-buzz :D
<Phineas> i know
<Phineas> and it failed again
<MooDoo> Phineas, ah well new hdd it is then
<davmor2> Phineas: power it down before you damage the player as well as the HDD and don't power it up again until it has a new HDD or a new mp3 player
<Phineas> what is the cheapest i can get it fixed or get a new one
<MooDoo> Phineas, we're not phychic :) use google :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just realise isn't there  an S missing from psychic
<davmor2> Phineas: for you a new one
<MooDoo> yes
<Phineas> damn it, i thought it would work if i did something to it but no it just didn't do anything (just like Perry)
<Phineas> power down worked
<Phineas> well what do i do now?
<screen-x> Phineas: plan an exciting weekend?
<Phineas> screen-x,  yup
<screen-x> so bin the mp3 player, and go somewhere exciting..
<Phineas> screen-x,  yeah why not
<screen-x> :)
<MooDoo> Phineas, people don't know everthing, if we don't know stop asking and go to the pub :)
<Phineas> MooDoo,  why not
<MooDoo> Phineas, why not what?
<Phineas> MooDoo,  nm
<MooDoo> sorry if i sound rude but people and i mean me get annoyed with "what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now what do i do now  :)"
<MooDoo> yes i'm in a bad mood
<MooDoo> :D
<screen-x> MooDoo: 5 hours to go?
<Phineas> 5 hours untill what
<bigcalm> 5 mins to go :D
<MooDoo> screen-x, yes, but that's not why i'm in a bad mood this time
<MooDoo> Phineas, i finish work
<MooDoo> my grandfather dies this morning at 5:00am :(
<MooDoo> that's why i'm snappy :D
<Phineas> MooDoo,  lucky for me I only work when i get called out
<screen-x> MooDoo: :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: You're always snappy, sorry to hear about your Grandad though
<screen-x> hmm empathy needs an emoticon.
<MooDoo> davmor2, only to czajkowski who deserves it :D
<davmor2> screen-x: empathy is full of them it is the chat client after all :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: True
<screen-x> davmor2: I knew that was coming..
<davmor2> screen-x: Hate to disappoint
<bigcalm> "Please wait while your font cache is rebuilt. This should take less than a few minutes." - VLC, I love you
 * MooDoo loves VLC too
<MartijnVdS> "less than a few"
<MartijnVdS> ...
<screen-x> 1?
<MartijnVdS> depends on what you think is a few
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. a pair is 2
<bigcalm> 1, a couple, several, many
<MartijnVdS> but a few could be 100 if your regular volume is in the millions
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 0, 1, infinity
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeroOneInfinityRule
<screen-x> Earlier I had a call because staff couldn't insert records into a legacy db, it had got to the integer boundry on its id field :(
<Phineas> ahh a wasp
<andylockran> yo yo yo
<screen-x> sup andylockran
<andylockran> gd ta
<andylockran> you?
<screen-x> OK :) hoping British Rail don't get scared and cancel my train home..
<screen-x> "wrong type of snow"
<andylockran> yeah, the weather seems good here in Manchester
<screen-x> There is snow on the ground here (South Wales) but not much of it.
<davmor2> screen-x: Bring back steam they never used to stop for leaves or snow or ice or I just don't feel like running today
<MooDoo> there is nothing here in notts
<davmor2> nor wolves
<andylockran> I have to drive to Wolverhampton soon
<moreati> Nor East Birmingham
<andylockran> can't decided weather to go to tonight or tomorrow :)
<MooDoo> andylockran, both....simples [squeek] :)
<andylockran> got paintballing
<andylockran> hopefully it'll be nice and cold for that
<screen-x> ouch!
<andylockran> last time I did it, it was FREEZING.
<andylockran> I crawled through an icey stream running around the perimeter of the scenario to attack the opposing team from behind.
<andylockran> It worked incredibly well
<screen-x> dedication..
<davmor2> erm idiocy I think is the correct word
<MooDoo> i love paintballing :)
<Phineas> outch thats what i say to paintballing
<MooDoo> airsoft is another good one, less painful
 * screen-x does some perl+xml, more painful than paintballing..
<BigRedS> I despise XML
<screen-x> python + lxml is ok, perl + xpathscript is not.
<andylockran> ah, I go along with the idea, "It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt"
<andylockran> the only problem with that + irc, is that being silent isn't an option, therefore I succumb to idiocy :)
<screen-x> andylockran: lurking is an option, but it is less fun..
<andylockran> kinda pointless
<andylockran> may as well just goto the websites and read through the logs
<andylockran> though, I guess you'd miss the realtime fun of irc
<jacobw> Argh. Why did I choose to install GT5 to HDD
<jacobw> Now it'll be 20 minutes before I can play it
<jacobw> MartijnVdS, Have you got your copy of GT5 yet?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> Postal strike--
<popey> evening
<buzz_> 'vning.
<MooDoo> hiya popey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<danfish> grr - stuck in a byobu window via connectbot for android - doesn't support F keys
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't?
<MartijnVdS> there's "connectbot for irssi" which has some special key stuff
<danfish> ooh - i'll check
<dutchie> danfish: you could probably use old-fashioned ctrl-a n etc
<danfish> Thanks - I'll give both a go :)
<danfish> excellent, both work.
<dw1> Just moving from fedora. Can anyone give me an example of correct syntax to use dpkg-query to obtain an English language overview description of an installed package?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS, :P
<jacobw> dw1, apt-cache show
<jacobw> dw1, apt-cache show
<dw1> jacobw: thanks v much. That seems to do the trick. I had thought from the dpkg-query manpage that something with a syntax like $Description somewhere in it ought to do the same, but every sytax of that kind that I tried seemed to be rejected
<danfish> welcome to ubuntu dw1! I hope it works out for you :)
<dw1> danfish: looking good so far (day 2)
<MattJ> dw1: dpkg-query -W -f='${Description}\n' somepackage
<Azelphur> omg...this anti piracy stuff is getting ridiculous
<MattJ> dw1: Just for the intellectual satisfaction, apt-cache show is easier :)
<Azelphur> a US site, torrent-finder just had it's domain seized without warning, because they link to sites that link to .torrent files that link to downloads
<MattJ> Azelphur: down with pirates, ninjas FTW
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> but seriously a link to a link to a link can get your domain seized now what on earth
<Azelphur> I think that'd pretty much be a blanket shut down on every site on the internet
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Xperia X10i - http://zrmt.com/article/view/xperia-x10i
<jacobw> six degrees of separation from a torrent file :p
<Azelphur> indeed >.>
<UndiFineD> heh bing ubuntu .torrent
<jacobw> MartijnVdS, I've got GT5 running an SDTV 576i
<jacobw> So doesn't do it justice :(
<OmNomSequitur> GT5 sucks!!
<jacobw> I've only just started with it
<OmNomSequitur> http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/gran-turismo-5/critic-reviews
<OmNomSequitur> 7 years in development
<OmNomSequitur> 6 years
<OmNomSequitur> 4 years of delays.
<OmNomSequitur> And for what?
<OmNomSequitur> It's gotten disappointing reviews.
<OmNomSequitur> It's still a half-finished game.
<OmNomSequitur> "The newly-included damage-feature received criticism for barely effecting car-handling and damage-effects only being applied after multiple serious crashes. "
<OmNomSequitur> ^
<dw1> MattJ: OK. Thanks.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I have some cars from GT5 Prologue to transfer :)
<jacobw> MartijnVdS, I'm starting from scratch :(
<daubers> o/
<WelshDragon> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<dutchie> \o/
 * daubers is very asleep
<MooDoo> hello
<jacobw> Moo
<MooDoo> moooooooooooooooooooooo
<zleap> moo
<daubers> meow?
<Azelphur> moo
<MooDoo> no not meow...mooo
<daubers> I see
<MooDoo> lol
<stuphi> I see it is not just me who has had a long week! :-)
<jacobw> the original ps3 had touch sensitive buttons, and the original xbox 360 didn't, now the new xbox 360 has touch sensitive buttons and the ps3 slim doesn't
<MooDoo> stuphi, i've had a long and crappy week :)
<stuphi> MooDoo: Me too. Mostly caused by other peoples incompetence. At least that is how I remember it :)
<jacobw> fukitol :p
<stuphi> So, when does the weekend _officially_ start?
<MooDoo> stuphi, midnight for me
<DJones> stuphi: About 5 minutes ago, Just got home after work, supermarket shopping, cooking tea, now feet up in front of tv
<stuphi> Anybody else seen this: http://www.google.co.uk/reader/play
<DJones> MooDoo: Sorry to hear about your Grandfather, you have my every sympathy
<MooDoo> DJones, thanks  :)
<DJones> MooDoo: Are you in work till midnight?
<MooDoo> DJones, yeah
<DJones> Ouch
<MooDoo> last one tonight for at least 6 weeks :D
<popey> evening chaps
<DJones> MooDoo: I bet that feels good
<DJones> Evening popey
<MooDoo> DJones, yes it does :) and evening popey
<czajkowski> aloha
<MattJ> Evening
<popey> evening
<Pendulum> hiya
<popey> hey Pendulum
<popey> having a good thanksgiving week?
<Pendulum> yep :)
<czajkowski> after yesterdays tweets I really want turkey or stuffing, possibly both.
<Pendulum> haha
<Pendulum> I didn't tweet about either :P
<czajkowski> hmm flying to brussels is damn expensive from UK
<Pendulum> czajkowski: so take train
<czajkowski> aye looking at them now
<popey> ooo totally
<popey> eurostar is ace
<czajkowski> not bad 69 return on train or 160 flying
<czajkowski> finally something is more expensive over here to do
<czajkowski> :)
<Pendulum> take train
<Pendulum> popey: +1 on eurostar being ace
<czajkowski> just sorting out fosdem
<czajkowski> dosnside to Thanksfgiving means I didnt get my fix of Bones or BBT! :(
<czajkowski> downside
 * MattJ always takes the train to FOSDEM
<MattJ> Much prefer it to flying (not that I've ever done the former to Brussels)
<MattJ> latter, whatever - I was up until 6AM this morning :(
<popey> I used to fly to brussels pretty much every week
<popey> for work
<popey> but so does everyone else, so the flights are packed
<popey> train is deffo way forward
<czajkowski> Pendulum: be prepared for cute pics coming from tc :D
<Pendulum> czajkowski: hah
<czajkowski> did you see the ones from the PTA meeting of the twins. woman kills me!
<Pendulum> no. I didn't see those
<Pendulum> I did see her request for suggestions about shopping, but I couldn't respond because I've locked down again and she doesn't follow me
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> let me fix that
<Pendulum> haha
<Pendulum> I guess tc's about to be told to follow me?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> :)
 * MooDoo pokes czajkowski 
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over MattJ 
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice cold water over MooDoo 
<MattJ> What did I do???
<MooDoo> czajkowski, hay it's -3 here, nasty girl
 * MattJ looks through the window
<MattJ> No snow yet :(
<MooDoo> i don't think there will be any, well at least where i am
<WelshDragon> People always wish for snow and then when it comes they do nothing by complain :D
<WelshDragon> but*
<MooDoo> WelshDragon, +1
<MattJ> WelshDragon: I never complain :)
<WelshDragon> MattJ, where you living?
<MattJ> Worcestershire
<WelshDragon> Oh, nae -too- far from me. Surprised to nae had the snow then :s
<dutchie> \o/ worcestershire
<WelshDragon> Got 2 inches on the ground here. About an hours drive from you.
<MattJ> \o/ Worcestershire
<MattJ> I need to move to Malvern or something
<WelshDragon> Where's Malvern? :s
 * dutchie will be returning to Worcester in a week or so
<MattJ> WelshDragon: a place with lots of hills
<dutchie> anyway, time for peep show
<WelshDragon> MattJ, Ah, surely scotland is the choice if you want hills and snow?
<MattJ> Too far and too many Scottish people
<MattJ> \o/ Worcestershire
<WelshDragon> What's wrong with scottish people? :o
<MattJ> Nothing, just too many of them :)
<WelshDragon> .... lol :s
<MattJ> Everyone in Worcestershire is in traffic jams so you never see them
<WelshDragon> haha
<MattJ> It feels like you can travel across the whole country, but travelling through here takes 2-3 times longer than any other county
<MattJ> Anyway, I haven't eaten and it's getting late, and cold... kitchen -->
<WelshDragon> toodles \o
<amarcolino> can anyone tell me what is the command for me to check that a package is working, I need to find out if ddclient is actually functioning and sending information to dyndns
<amarcolino> the package doesn't create a log :/
<WelshDragon> I don't know of any universal command to check if any package is "working". You can type "ps -A | grep ddclient" to see if it's running at least
<amarcolino> it seems to be working which doesn't help, it couldn't be that simple, it's the small problems that cause headaches *sigh*
<popey> ddclient is pretty simple
<popey> its worked for about 9 months for my mum :)
<amarcolino> yeah but I bet your mum is not using multiple hostname and redirecting it to a physical machine and the rest to vms
<WelshDragon> amarcolino, ddclient has a -syslog flag so it'll log to your syslog.
<popey> heh, no
<WelshDragon> As to what it logs i'm not aware. I've no experience with it.
<amarcolino> WelshDragon: not on my let me grep
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-27
<diplo> morning all
<alastor_ubuntu> hi there
<alastor_ubuntu> is anyone install fedore over ubuntu(dual boot)?
<alastor_ubuntu> fedora*
<czajkowski> Aloha
<alastor_ubuntu> hi
<alastor_ubuntu> did you install fedora over ubuntu,dual boot?
<czajkowski> nope
<Phineas> i am back
<alastor_ubuntu> Phineas,did you ever install fedora over ubuntu?
<Phineas> alastor_ubuntu,  once
<alastor_ubuntu> tell me,did fedora have autodetect grub
<Phineas> alastor_ubuntu, yes it did
<alastor_ubuntu> couse i want to install fedora now over ubuntu,dual boot
<Phineas> alastor_ubuntu,  fedora should just work out of the box
<AlanBell> happy christmas everyone
<AlanBell> alastor_ubuntu: you want to install fedora alongside Ubuntu you mean?
<czajkowski> please tell me there is no snow
<alastor_ubuntu> yes
<AlanBell> czajkowski: no snow, but we are having 17 people for christmas dinner today
<Phineas> czajkowski,  it is forcasted snow in the uk in a few days time
<AlanBell> alastor_ubuntu: are you stuck somewhere?
<alastor_ubuntu> i want to install now
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're a little ahead of yourself :)
<alastor_ubuntu> i hope that fedora will recognize grub
<AlanBell> ok, backup if you don't want to risk breaking things, then just go for it and read the screens carefully
<Phineas> AlanBell,  worked for me
<AlanBell> alastor_ubuntu: I am sure it will be fine
<AlanBell> czajkowski: just a bit
<shauno> czajkowski: we had snow here, but it turned into "frost with a vengeance" overnight
<Phineas> like i said it worked for me (until i did something to fedora, my bad not yours)
<alastor_ubuntu> and if i lost ubuntu,if i cant see him,can i configure grub over ubuntu live
<AlanBell> alastor_ubuntu: probably
<AlanBell> if it is just a grub issue and you haven't nuked the partition
<Phineas> shauno,  its just freezing cold outside here and it is frosty as wll
<shauno> it's kinda nice tho.  dry with barely any wind.  so I'm not gonna complain
<alastor_ubuntu> i will try
<alastor_ubuntu> thanks for support
<Phineas> lucky if i go out i have to wrap up (alough today seems pretty sunny) unlike yesterday
<AlanBell> alastor_ubuntu: don't get bitten by Bug #659106
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 659106 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Maverick installer lost Windows partitions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659106
<Phineas> oh and by its cold i was refering to yesterday
<alastor_ubuntu> yes,but im working with fedora installer now
<AlanBell> ick, there are sprouts
<czajkowski> AlanBell: boil then fry in oil and black pepper corns
<AlanBell> I think they are going to be chopped up and cooked with bacon bits
<AlanBell> which is to my mind not going to improve the bacon very much.
<Phineas> yesterday was cold and frosty today is bright and sunny
<Phineas> it's 8:39 AM and i'm up
<Phineas> AlanBell,  you n don't like sprouts
<AlanBell> Phineas: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/11/23/the-ubuntu-uk-christmas-party/
<Phineas> AlanBell,  i see
<AlanBell> not only will I be expected to eat them, I will no doubt be held responsible if my children don't eat them
<Phineas> oh bummer
<AlanBell> which leads to a farcical display of "oh look how much daddy likes them" which is passed down through the generations
<AlanBell> tradition is a wonderful thing
<Phineas> oh dear
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Your-Peas-Daisy-Books/dp/0099404672
<AlanBell> bah humbug
<popey> good book
<popey> sadly its about a girl who doesnt like peas and her mum who doesn't like sprouts
<popey> which leads the kids to believe they are allowed to say "I don't like that" and thats it
<popey> i dont mind if they dont like it, but they have to try it before they're allowed to say it
<Phineas> popey,  oh yeah i've read that book
<Phineas> yeah it's a good bok
<Phineas> book
 * Phineas starts listening to music
<switchgirl> Phineas: it snowed in edinburgh
<Phineas> switchgirl,  it was frosty now its bloody hot
<switchgirl> http://www.camvista.com/scotland/edinburgh/histedin.php3
<Phineas> AlanBell,  don't be so bah humbug about christmas
<Phineas> switchgirl,  its very sunny here in Danvill
<AlanBell> really good post about headphones and speakers not getting their act together on Ubuntu http://drowninginbugs.blogspot.com/2010/11/fix-bug-already-aka-long-overdue.html
<switchgirl> Phineas: hanukkah you mean?
<Phineas> switchgirl,  nope
<switchgirl> Phineas:  i was making a point
<Phineas> switchgirl,  oh
<WelshDragon> Why do boilers only ever break when it gets cold =.=
<Phineas> WelshDragon,  i know its like they have a mind of there own
<suprengr> because when boilers are installed they are fitted with an external thermostat. this detects outside temperature and automatically breaks the boiler when below zero ;)
<WelshDragon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> WelshDragon: We lose the gas supply regularly in the winter when the gas pipe to our house fills up with water after prolonged rain/melting snow :-(
<WelshDragon> TheOpenSourcerer :o. How does the water manage to work it's way into the gas pipes? :s
<Phineas> TheOpenSourcerer,  thats why you don't choose gas go for electric
<dutchie> no snow here :(
<WelshDragon> You'll get some eventually dutchie
<TheOpenSourcerer> WelshDragon: Very good question. They are not really sure but affects mine and a neighbour's house too.
<dutchie> there's some forecast for tomorrow i think
<TheOpenSourcerer> Phineas: Heating our house electrically would cost a small fortune.
<Phineas> dutchie,  no snow here just bloody hot sun
<Phineas> TheOpenSourcerer,  we once had nucluar powered boler, that was fun but we had to stop (to dangorus)
<dutchie> nothing dangerous about a properly run nuclear reactor
<Phineas> dutchie,  i didn't think of that
<dutchie> well, you probably didn't heat your house with a properly run nuclear reactor...
<Phineas> dutchie,  yeah, the first thing i said was "lets switch to gas before theres an explosion"
<Phineas> dutchie,   so we switched to gas
<switchgirl> i am dyslexic i find forms hard to fill out, any idea how to get edit a pdf file [ this: http://www.blockbuster.co.uk/help/1399_bb_new_app._form.pdf  ]  to a doc or other file type?
<switchgirl> i'll ask in #ubuntu-offtopic
<Phineas> my webcam wont work can you help me
<Phineas> ? anyone
<switchgirl> Phineas: sure annswer my question an i'll help
<Phineas> switchgirl,  openoffice can now edit pdf file s give it a go
<Phineas> switchgirl,  you may need a plugin
<switchgirl> ok thanks
<switchgirl> Phineas: lsusb
<switchgirl> Phineas: lspci -vvv
<switchgirl> pastebin those please
<suprengr> Phineas: does it work in ANY application or NO applications at all. Does it work elsewhere / on other systems.
<Phineas> suprengr,  just tried cheese no luck
<Phineas> switchgirl, http://pastebin.com/JzuJtPfY
<suprengr> Phineas: built in or plug-in webcam?
<Phineas> switchgirl,  http://pastebin.com/grxs5b3v
<Phineas> suprengr,  plug in
<danfish> Phineas: what make and model of webcam?
<Phineas> danfish,  the only thing i know is that it says tevion on it
<suprengr> danfish: [you type faster than me!] ;)
<danfish> suprengr: :)
<danfish> Phineas: odd - it's not showing up at all on lsusb
<switchgirl> danfish: nore in lspci -vv
<Phineas> danfish,  yeah that is odd, one of the logs shows driver is loaded
<danfish> try removing and reinserting and see if anything changes in dmesg
<Phineas> danfish,  http://pastebin.com/yg0Wzt9Q
<Phineas> fishy
<AlanBell> Phineas: just stick a new webcam on your christmas prezzie list
<danfish> Phineas: absolutely nothing showing up. I think you are out of luck :(
<Phineas> it used to work
<danfish> Phineas: on ubuntu?
<Phineas> danfish, yep last years release
<AlanBell> can you prove it still works using a liveCD of some release of Ubuntu
<AlanBell> and by "works" I mean shows up in lsusb
<Phineas> AlanBell,  yep and it worked
<AlanBell> show me the lsusb output
<Phineas> AlanBell,  now or back then (wont be in logs from back then)
<czajkowski> Phineas: so just go back to the last release or file a bug against this version
<danfish> it is most likely borked hardware. *something* should show up in dmesg, even if it's an unsupported chipset
<Phineas> czajkowski,  it was more than one release ago
<Phineas> brb breakfast
<czajkowski> Phineas: yes regression happens, but logging a bug is the way to get it fixed
<diplo> oooh starting to snow heavier now
 * diplo laughs at his wife who is going shopping :D
 * diplo not so happy that he has to go de-ice the car for the wife in the snow though
<Phineas> back
<exobuzz> popey, new joggler maverick image is out (and linux mint 10).
<exobuzz> (and linux mint 9 in a moment)
<popey> nice
<popey> url?
<exobuzz> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/
<exobuzz> sorted the sound stuff finally. had to roll back alsa a bit.
<popey> love the colour themes on those pages :D
<exobuzz> added. a touch calibration tool. for people like me with sausage fingers. and erm. the old userspace instead of 200 lines of kernel code performance when heavy io fix thingymajig
<exobuzz> well. not really what I would say was great design, but i threw some colours in. thanks ;-)
<exobuzz> my main site at http://www.exotica.org.uk/ is more interesting design wise i think ;-) (and also a bit strange perhaps)
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> </spammed the channel with almost every url)
<popey> :)
<popey> I spammed twitter with it :)
<exobuzz> i better keep an eye on my bandwidth monitor. since i did these joggler images my bandwidth went from around 300gb upstream to 750gb in one month :)
<exobuzz> only 3 days left in november mind.. so
<exobuzz> popey, is your joggler modified with a better heatsink or anything ?
<popey> no
<exobuzz> do you modify the kernel boot to change the passive thermal trip point ?
<popey> i havent
<popey> mine mostly runs stock fw tho
<exobuzz> i keep mine at around 80c.. stops it throttling so much when it gets a bit warm.
<popey> have you documented that?
<exobuzz> i mean it doesnt stay at 80c but i have the trip point at 80 or 85..
<exobuzz> yeh it's on the page
<exobuzz> use at own risk type thing :)
<exobuzz> critical temp is 100c. throttles normally at 70c. but since it can idle at 55-60c or 66c with lcd on full, it normally doesnt take much to push it up to the throttling level
<exobuzz> i believe the z520 also has a 120c remove power from chip before silicon fries protection also, or at least i read something about it.
<daubers> Morning
<dutchie> lo daubers
<daubers> nom nom nom eggs and tea
<MartijnVdS> nom nom fried bits of fish
<directhex> exobuzz: these images are your work, e.g. forcing poulsbong into them?
<exobuzz> i put them together yeh. emgd + xorg 1.8 + some other stuff
<exobuzz> i mean some patches for the joggler were derived from some others work also.
<directhex> nice job#
<exobuzz> thanks.
<exobuzz> gotta sleep now. took all night to get these finished. my brain has had it. cheers
<popey> lol@poulsbong
<directhex> popey: (c) mjg59
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<daubers> Right, new plan
<daubers> 1) Make coffee
<daubers> 2) Web stuff
<penguin42> 3) GOTO 1
<popey> lol
<gord> huh. i guess it snowed last night
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/quote/he-programs-english-and-welsh haha, just had someone say this on my server :P
<Azelphur> he programs English, and Welsh \o/
<daubers> penguin42:
<czajkowski> hmm car shopping is soo addictive
<daubers> czajkowski: Expensive too
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: So what takes your fancy then?
<czajkowski> A4
<czajkowski> daubers: cheaper over here than back home
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice.
<czajkowski> what does Insurance Group 11,  mean ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pricey I think.
<czajkowski> won't be for a few months at least till I get some cash saved up
<Pendulum> czajkowski: is car shopping as addictive as clothes shopping?
<czajkowski> more
<czajkowski> here I can go test drive
<czajkowski> :D
 * daubers hugs drupal for being easy
<czajkowski> daubers: never heard that statement before
<daubers> czajkowski: It's easy if you're doing simple things :)
<Mez> popey: remember I said about the uupc mirror thing?
<Mez> popey: looks like It's going to have to move to a new box :()
<directhex> czajkowski: insurance group gives a ROUGH indication of the cost to insure a car, from 1 to 20 (where 20 is 'special prices per car')
<czajkowski> directhex: thanks
<directhex> my car is... IG16??!?!
<directhex> explains why i spend so much
<czajkowski> directhex: eh ?
<directhex> czajkowski: i'm kinda shocked my car is a higher group than an A4
<czajkowski> directhex: is there a list somwehere ?
<directhex> czajkowski: of cars in each ig?
<czajkowski> yes
<shauno> what on earth do you drive that's 16?
<directhex> actually, i think the scale's been changed lately
<directhex> seems to go up to 50 now
<directhex> czajkowski: bottom right of http://www.parkers.co.uk/insurance/#ig=0
<directhex> ... how are the aygo, 107 and c1 in different groups? they're the same car!
<czajkowski> directhex: thanks
<Pendulum> AlanBell: ping
<daubers> directhex: Engine is tweaked differently so different CO2 emissions
<daubers> directhex: You can fix that if you chip them :)
 * daubers is pondering getting his golf chipped to 110bhp
<czajkowski> I have found a downside to Aldershot
<czajkowski> there is no chinese take away
<czajkowski> :o
<gord> what?!
<gord> how do you not starve?
<czajkowski> indian
<czajkowski> or I cook
<czajkowski> and seeing s the only thing I've eaten since saturday is Rice
<czajkowski> I really want food today
<daubers> czajkowski: You need a slow cooker
<gord> could always cook your own chinese food, i like doing that sometimes. occasionally its not poisonous
<daubers> Just throw it all in the pot and let it go all day
<gord> plus, chinese food is so quick to cook -_-
<shauno> I thought aldershot was a military town?  how could they not have every takeaway conceivable?!
<czajkowski> they have
<czajkowski> about 8 indians
<czajkowski> and 5 pizza
<directhex> considering the chinese population in the uk isn't very high, i think we have a disporportionate number of chinese takeaways
<diplo> You sure there isn't a chinese there czajkowski, sure i had one last time i visited, albeit that was a few years ago
<diplo> I live in a town with 16k of people and we havei think at last count 13 chinese takeaways
<diplo> Let along indians and chippys
<shauno> directhex: I think that's just how it works.  the number of McDs / KFC isn't proportional to the american populace
<czajkowski> diplo: was told there was 1 but its not great
<directhex> shauno: most "ethnic" restaurants are run by people from that ethnic background. you wouldn't find it weird if a chinese restaurant was run by, say, a black guy?
 * daubers has a pizza place, a chinese, a nepalese, an indian and a chippy within a 5 minute walk
<directhex> "hm, this can't be authentic food :o"
<shauno> directhex: not at all.  I don't think chinese food is pretty unrelated to what chinese people eat
<directhex> shauno: definitely unrelated. but it still happens. indian restaurants are filled with indian staff, thai restaurants are filled with thai staff, mexican restaurants are filled with mexican staff, etc.
<jacobw> all this talk of food is making me hungry :(
<daubers> Anyone ever played Thud?
<MattJ100> daubers: what?
<daubers> MattJ100: I've had this urge to get the Thud board out again, but need an apponent
<Pendulum> when did pad.ubuntu-uk.org get more colour choices?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I live about 100m from a great chinese restraunt
<AlanBell> http://www.boneastrestaurant.co.uk/
<AlanBell> also in farnham http://www.restaurantuk.com/details_page.asp?ID=18523
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I don't live in Farnham :)
<gord> stop making me want to get chinese tonight you guys :P gonna make gord tubby for next uds
<Pendulum> gord: you'd have to gain a lot of weight to be tubby. more than you could by the next UDS :P
<gord> Challenge accepted!
<WelshDragon> lol
<Pendulum> gord: so now you have to get chinese tonight to start off :P
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> went for a walk
<czajkowski> found 2 chinese take outs
<czajkowski> forgot to take down the numbers of them
<penguin42> czajkowski: Google!
<danfish> evening.
<danfish> weirdness - staying at a place with free wifi, but need to log on via captive portal. Android phone find the portal fine, but ubuntu laptop stubbornly refuses. Now connecting to net via usb tethering -> wifi on android
<exobuzz> chinese.. mmm hungry
<brobostigon> evening all.
<suprengr> boo
<brobostigon> moo
<DJones> That was a wild ride on Freenode
<penguin42> ?
<danfish> !netsplit
<lubotu3> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<danfish> and then some
<penguin42> oh, didn't see one here
<suprengr> !netsplit
<lubotu3> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<AlanChicken> hi
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> poing
<danfish> who's broken IRC?
<czajkowski> its beeb looked into
<danfish> since when did lubotu3 do 'poing'?
<danfish> czajkowski: :)
<danfish> czajkowski: d'ya get your chinese 2nite?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> egg and chips
<czajkowski> bucket of te
<czajkowski> tea
<czajkowski> and rugby
<czajkowski> :)P
<danfish> even better then :D
<danfish> doing a 'medivac' from Lisbon this weekend so no rubgy
<zleap> hi, i am looking for a progranm that lists video hardware its a bit like uname -a but the output includes the video chipset
<zleap> or looking for waht to search for in google
<danfish> but 'tis a lovely place. Would thoroughly recommend for a visit (or UDS venue!)
<danfish> zleap: what does lsusb or lspci -vvv show?
<zleap> hardware,  however i found something simiar that gives less output,
<zleap> but can't remember what it was,  i stopped using it as it used to cause x to crash
<czajkowski>   6 6
<danfish> czajkowski: put another 6 on that and I'll be sending and exorcist round :P
<czajkowski> danfish: england were wining
<danfish> ah - now makes sense. We lost in the end I take it. How about Ireland?
<czajkowski> danfish: just half time now
<czajkowski> didnt see ireland  game
<czajkowski> e're playing tomorrow
<danfish> ok - should be home by then :) 9am flight
<zleap> rugby or cricket
<jacobw> rugby
<jacobw> definately
<jacobw> next question
<zleap> whos winning
<zleap> or who are england playing
<jacobw> er.. not england
<zleap> ok
<jacobw> that is for sure :D
<zleap> lol
<czajkowski> bah so close for a ftry
<czajkowski> boggled it at the 3 meters out
<czajkowski> 9 6 to rsa
<czajkowski> try SA
<czajkowski> 14 6
<czajkowski> ohh gone to video ref
<czajkowski> given
<danfish> bah!
<czajkowski> try again
<czajkowski> 19 6
<czajkowski> no conversaion the last time
<czajkowski> conversion
<danfish> double bah!
<czajkowski> conversion 21 6
<danfish> right - ubuntu laptop to android phone -> UK VPS as a proxy gives me iplayer
<danfish> but a losing England :(
<czajkowski> ohh try england
<danfish> consolation try
<czajkowski> 11 21
<danfish> still, some sparks of hope for england for the world cup from the Autumn series, me thinks
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> da	sure
 * danfish puts a bet on NZ 
<czajkowski> danfish: sure
<czajkowski> we play argentina at 2:15
<czajkowski> game over
<danfish> czajkowski: will tune in. ?how about a ubuntu-uk rugby day - ?london irish
<czajkowski> danfish: sounds like a great idea!
<czajkowski> when are you organising it :D
<czajkowski> http://www.london-irish.com/news/Irish50088.ink
<danfish> czajkowski: I'll add it to the list ;)
<danfish> (of stuff to do)
<danfish> right - laters - got to go and see how my medavac is doing
<WelshDragon> Gooooooooood evening UK \o
<jacobw> good evening WelshDragon
<matti> ;]
<AlanBell> czajkowski: AMs on Aldershot high street is a nice place
<AlanBell> does an all-you-can-eat chinese buffet
<AlanBell> I was thinking of going there with TheOpenSourcere1 and popey to test the small print on that one
<matti> AlanBell: ;]
<czajkowski> AlanBell: heh
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcere1> :-D
<popey> evening all btw
<czajkowski> aloha
<jacobw> evening
<matti> ;]
<matti> I had a dumb question.
<jacobw> had?
<matti> How do you change/update wallpapers shipped with Ubuntu by default? I mean, the space ones... which rotate.
<matti> Sorry.
<matti> s/had/have/
<matti> jacobw: I have a little fever and my brain is sloowwwwwww today ;
<zleap> not sure,  seems tyou can't configure a slideshow,  if you hover over an image it gives the location yhou could move a few so it can only display 1 image
<zleap> or add your own images i guess
<directhex> slideshows are in /usr/share/backgrounds/foldername and have a background-1.xml file with a manifest
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so is there a widget to edit / configure
<directhex> the manifest lists the files and the transitions
<matti> directhex: Bingo!
<matti> directhex, zleap: Thanks :)
<zleap> np
<matti> Now.
<matti> I need a collection of high resolution photos from NASA ;]
<zleap> hi tombrough
<WelshDragon> Goooooooooooood evening UK. (again)
<matti> ;]
<zleap> hi WelshDragon
<WelshDragon> How is everyone?
<zleap> i am good
<directhex> annoyed. looks like another busted power supply
<WelshDragon> Oh dears directhex :s
<zleap> not good
<zleap> i got one of them here
<WelshDragon> zleap, you've got a busted one?
<zleap> psu
<WelshDragon> zleap, why keep it then? :s
<penguin42> directhex: Stop running the welding kit off them
<zleap> when i get round to it will get rid of it with a load of othetr bits thjat i don't want
<WelshDragon> zleap, Ah. So basically.... you're lazy? :P
<zleap> no but there is no point in going to the tip with 1 power supply when i have other bits needing to go too
<WelshDragon> lol
<zleap> so collect everythibng together and take it all at the same time
<WelshDragon> I need to get a new mobo for mine (although still old. Got an asus atm, the old core 2 lga775 but it's a load for nuts when it comes to overclocking.
 * directhex is selling old kit
<WelshDragon> directhex, define old kit :P
<directhex> WelshDragon: my old server... which is mostly an htpc platform
<WelshDragon> directhex, htpc?
<WelshDragon> directhex, what's the model of the mobo you have that you're looking to sell?
<directhex> msi p7ngm-digital
<WelshDragon> sex
<WelshDragon> sec*
<zleap> lol
<WelshDragon> god i hate that typo >.<
<WelshDragon> directhex, how long have you been trying to sell? and how much are you wanting for it?
<directhex> WelshDragon: approximately minus 30 minutes
<directhex> (haven't posted it up yet for sale)
<directhex> taken a photo though
 * popey tickles heeed 
<popey> heeed: you have a 4 year old right?
<heeed> aye
<heeed> why?
<popey> my son keeps asking about yorus
<popey> *yours
<czajkowski> play dates
<heeed> why?
<popey> because of that one time you were playing minecraft, mine was watching as I played
<heeed> ahh
<popey> and you said yours went off to watch cbeebies or something
<heeed> castlegame as jack would call it
<popey> awww
<popey> sam called it the monster game
<heeed> yeah, kerwhizz is the favourite at the moment
<popey> now they call it minecraft and each have their own world
<heeed> Been getting into extreme tux racer a bit more now
<popey> :)
<heeed> that and bloody Sega all stars racing on the 360....perhaps one day Ill be able to claim that back one day :D
<heeed> oops spot the typo
<popey> :)
 * Ng been wondering how early one can start teaching a kid to program ;)
<jacobw> i think win logo with the turtle was my first programming exposure
<czajkowski> Ng: ello
<zleap> Ng, try logo first thats simple
<heeed> dunno, trying to get the nephew into it. He enjoyed programming some floor robot thing the other day
<jacobw> floor robot?
<heeed> yeah, 2 secs
<zleap> let them deveop so they enjoy it  don't force em
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-computer any comments on this build? :D
<Azelphur> Obviously gonna be running Ubuntu on it :)
<heeed> jacobw, this thing: http://www.valiant-technology.com/archive/products/roamer1.htm
<Ng> zleap: then I'd have to learn logo and buy one of those stupid turtles ;(
<zleap> there is a logo program in kubuntu
<zleap> klogo it should work in ubuntu under gnome unless there is a gnome version
<zleap> its simple and you control a screen robot
<Ng> I quite like the idea of somehow teaching them by stealth with early games/toys that familiarise them with the concepts, but I know of no such things
<Ng> czajkowski: hey :)
<zleap> i remember toys back in the 80[syou could program
<Ng> alternatively I wonder if something like lego mindstorms would be a good route in
<czajkowski> Ng: you  have kids?
<Ng> czajkowski: should have one in April :)
<gord> make them learn logo but *without* the turtle, replace it with a roomba. then you get your house cleaned at the same time!
<zleap> lol
<Ng> gord: nice :)
<czajkowski> Ng:  sweet
 * popey tickles Ng 
<zleap> i am sure there are simple tools out there somewhere
<popey> Ng: I assert that minecraft teaches kids resource management, construction, safety ...
<popey> it also scares the bejeezus out of them
<Ng> heh
<gord> i hatred of creepers
<zleap> lol
<gord> and a *
<popey> so a little from column A, a little from column B
<popey> Sam leapt out of his skin today when we had incoming arrows nearby
<popey> that is easily the best tenner I have ever spent on a game
<Ng> those semi-motorised things where a bunch of wickle trucks move stuff around - those are essentially expressing an algorithm, but they seem to mostly be fixed and very pointless ;(
<zleap> start em young linux baby grow, tux stuffed toy
<zleap> and ubuntu stickers on carry cot
<zleap> lol
<popey> Ng: friend of mine had a great plan for potty training
<directhex> there we go! more stuff on sale! http://forums.hexus.net/classifieds-sell-your-stuff/195337-chopping-up-server-htpc-bundle-atx-mobo-cpu-ram.html
<popey> (which I appreciate is a long way off for you/your progeny)
<popey> she bought a massive amount of that wooden train track stuff off ebay
<zleap> cool
<zleap> kids love that esp at nursery age
<popey> every time the kid got a poo/wee in the right place he got either a train or a single piece of track
<popey> so motivating him
<popey> rewarding him
<zleap> ah
<zleap> good plan
<popey> and it builds up real quick
<Ng> mmm, pavlovian training
<popey> :)
<zleap> hence buy in bulk
<popey> yup
<popey> i love brio train track
<popey> its very theraputic and creative to build a track layout
<zleap> yeah
<mgdm> I found there's an OSS version of Worms the other day
<zleap> wormux
<mgdm> I was rather chuffed with that :)
<zleap> been around for ages
<mgdm> Hedgewars
<zleap> ah
<mgdm> never seen wormux
<zleap> wormux was the older one,
<zleap> penguns, vs gnus, etc
<zleap> not sure if the bsd demon is in there
<popey> directhex: needs a logon, that url
<directhex> :o :'(
<popey> which it seems I have a logon to
<popey> popey, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
<zleap> 403 error iirc
<heeed> all the talk of basic and Im currently getting VICE installed to play with
<popey> :)
<popey> I'm more of a speccy man myself
<popey> so I'm guessing you're about 36-39 then heeed ?
<heeed> 32
<directhex> pfft spectrum
<popey> ah
<directhex> real men used welsh computers
<popey> hehe
<heeed> first proper computer was a VIC20
<popey> proper?
<popey> what was before that?
<popey> plug in the telly tennis games?
<directhex> popey: we had one of those... a binatone mk8 TV Master
<heeed> some phillips g700 console thingy when I was about 8
<popey> we had an orange thing with paddles
<directhex> not welsh enough for my tastes though
<popey> dont recall the make
<directhex> not proper if it's not welsh.
<heeed> thats why I loved r3play....every system I had ever owned/played on all under one roof. Forgot how big the Atari Lynx was
<popey> i think ours had tennis, practice, squash and something else
<heeed> this was the badger: http://www.pugo.org/collection/console/27/
<directhex> heeed: oh, a rebadged odyssey2
<directhex> those things are famous
<zleap> popey, me too
<zleap> we had a light gun too
<popey> oh wow
<directhex> :o look at it! it's so welsh! http://www.pugo.org/collection/computer/182/
<heeed> nah, didnt get the light gun till christmas 1988
<zleap> this was more like 82
<zleap> shoot sqare thing on the screen
<jacobw> directhex, strange and irrelevant? :D
<heeed> Commodore 64 Light Fantastic Pack http://www.retrogames.co.uk/more/on/details/017794
<zleap> soeccy ftw
<zleap> speccy ftw
#ubuntu-uk 2010-11-28
<Elefant> hi all
<hwrd> hey does anyone know how to "bash" the cpu of a VPS? Can i still use programs like unix bench or do those not apply becuase of the virualisation?
<penguin42> hwrd: It still works; not very friendly to the other guys on the host
<hwrd> penguin42: ok, thanks -- they all know i'm going to do it, so it shouldn't be a problem.
<Phineas> i am back at this early hour
<Phineas> suprengr,  hello and good morning
<suprengr> hi Phineas
<Phineas> welcome all
<Phineas> well guys i gotta go seeya tomorrow afternoon
<diplo> afternoon all
<WelshDragon> Afternoon :)
<suprengr> Boo!
 * WelshDragon yelps!
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/ searchable ?
<diplo> It's public so can just use google ? if you are looking for something specific ?
<diplo> site: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/ <searchterm>
 * suprengr feels the need for a a fried egg sarny coming on
<WelshDragon> suprengr, with bacon!
<suprengr> ;)
<kaushal> diplo: It did not worked for me
<kaushal> site: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/ openvpn
<kaushal> is that correct ?
<WelshDragon> kaushal, Don't put a space after the "site:" :)
<diplo> Hmm seems search query first and site after
<kaushal> ok
<diplo> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=openvpn+site:https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/
 * suprengr takes WelshDragon's adviced & adds bacon to taste bud - yummmm
<suprengr> *advice
<WelshDragon> Yummy :)
<jacobw> morning/afternoon
<switchgirl> jacobw: any idea how to update my ip address to be correct in terms of goe id/ip
<jacobw> in word..
<jacobw> no :p
<daubers_> Afternoon
<switchgirl> http://www.youtube.com/v/rgxwTF-qeAo&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&version=3
<switchgirl> omg the police charged the crowd of peaceful protestors
<suprengr> Wow! they've never done *that* before....
 * suprengr grins wryfully
<switchgirl> i am 22 so... no they havent
<suprengr> [i'm 22+... so yes they have]
<Ng> switchgirl: the peaceful protestors who also trashed a police van and threw stuff at the police? ;)
<suprengr> [...& they also stand in front of *real* danger and out their lives at risk]
<suprengr> out=put
<switchgirl> old model plates and equipment removed - odd huh?
<suprengr> ?
<DJones> !ot | switchgirl
<lubotu3> switchgirl: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<switchgirl> DJones:  no one talks or answers questions when i ask on topic stuff
<DJones> Thats possibly because there's nobody around, or doesn't know the answer at that time. Please keep offtopic "stuff" away from this channel
<suprengr> switchgirl: need any help while you're here?
<switchgirl> i was asking about the geo ip fail
<jacobw> protests in this country don't achieve anything
<jacobw> hi popey
<popey> lo jacobw
<switchgirl> the goeip sems to think i am in dundee
<popey> switchgirl: thats something only your isp and the geo/ip provider can fix
<switchgirl> kk
<popey> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.minecraftwiki.net
<popey> :(
<jacobw> my new tomtom wants to be connected to tomtom home to start the 12 month trial of tomtom live services
<popey> yeah, annoying isnt it?
<popey> they don't make a linux client, but the device itself runs linux, and the windows client uses xulrunner!
<jacobw> i don't understand why i can't just register the serial number through the website to start the trial of the live services
<jacobw> ha :(
<jacobw> have you got a tomtom then popey?
<popey> you need a windows pc or a vm unfortunately
<popey> yes
<jacobw> will it work in a vm? that is good news :)
<popey> should do
<jacobw> i suppose if i bridge the USB connection somehow..
<jacobw> perhaps i should write my findings up on the ubuntu wiki to help similarly challenged people :)
<suprengr> Anyone using the GetDeb repoisitory? Is it a 'safe' thing to do? I may want to upgrade Pidgin to clear msn certificate error (so need 2.7.7).  Using 10.04 and currently trying a fix recommended on WebUpd8 / GetDeb first.
<popey> i personally dont trust how-tos on webupd8
<suprengr> ooops!  ;)
<kaushal> suprengr: http://pidgin.im/download/ubuntu/
<suprengr> popey: thanks for that... you might just have saved me big pile of whotsiits!
<suprengr> kaushal: just checking it now
<suprengr> t'internet conxn playing up {at limit of distance from 'borrowed' router] -  reboot cures - back soon...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] New VPS & Shameless Plug - http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SourceGuru/~3/26403tDNsU0/
<jacobw> its snowing heavily in Leeds now :)
<shauno> I did the same thing with bitfolk .. really is a handy process
<suprengr> jacobw: Sunday at 07:00 GMT: clear sky. -11Â°C (12Â°F) and on turning on the cold tap the water went green!  hmm...
<suprengr> ..but no snow ;)
<shauno> not looking forward to walking home .. we've had a sub-zero mist all day.  looks pretty, freezes as soon as it hits you.  ick.
<suprengr> shauno: wrap up warm, find somewhere warm & comforting on the way... a pub
<shauno> I just make sure to bring a scarf with me.  pub isn't much of a refuge; still got a scar from when last time I popped in to see what the local was like
<suprengr> whoops
<jacobw> wow
<domjohnson> Hi - I accidentally removed a few things from the top panel - the volume control and also the system tray - how do I get them back?
<jacobw> right click -> add to panel -> volume control / notification area
<heeed> or try indicator applet  for the volume control....strange name to have
<domjohnson> Thanks :)
<JLove_> Hi, I'm having trouble acccessing ##java, can anybody help (xchat)
<DJones> JLove_: WEha
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> What error message do you get?
<czajkowski> danfish: watch the rugby did you :D
<dogmatic69> hi all, im looking for a way to do chroot for my server, any one know of some links for this?
<jpds> !debootstrap
<lubotu3> debootstrap is used to create a !Debian or Ubuntu base system from scratch, without requiring the availability of !dpkg or !APT. It does this by downloading !.deb files from a mirror site, and carefully unpacking them into a directory you can eventually !chroot into.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot for more information
<penguin42> debootstrap is wonderful
<dogmatic69> jpds: thanks, is that the type of thing resellers do?
<dogmatic69> for hosting
<jpds> dogmatic69: Not sure, sorry.
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: what is your server serving?
<AlanBell> do you want to run an application like apache in a chroot or do you want to do virtual machines?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: i would like to set it up so that each "vhost" has a user, that can only access that area of the server, atm if someone has access they have access to pretty much everything
<dogmatic69> ubuntu10.10 x64 on slicehost is what i have
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=229
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: cool, thanks that looks good
<dogmatic69> should i be making apache run as that user.. eg 'joe' or is www-data fine?
<dogmatic69> because if the php scripts create stuff running as www-data joe will not be able to delete/view/edit them
<AlanBell> an interesting question
<AlanBell> personally I am a bit alergic to having multiple customers on the same VM
<dogmatic69> well its only my stuff
<dogmatic69> its just that i have opensource apps that im busy with and need to make it a bit more secure, eg: one of the apps has a filemanager and it was possible to view /
<AlanBell> ah, I see
<dogmatic69> having that running as a demo on the site is a problem
<AlanBell> in that case I think you need to run the app itself in a chroot, or apache in a chroot
<dogmatic69> cool, im pretty new to linux so i dont know if im thinking the correct way
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> so no need for the chroot users, just the app
<AlanBell> yup
<dogmatic69> ok cool, ill see what google can dig up
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: im thinking that this should be something in the vhost setup? its hard finding this stuff as google just gives links to people selling hosting
<Azelphur> http://www.linux.fm/ rofl :D
<Azelphur> It reads you the source code for a random file from the kernel, haha
<penguin42> hmm - it should do something better than reading asterisk asterisk
<penguin42> switch to a different voice for comments or something
<Azelphur> hehe
<WelshDragon> dogmatic69, you'll still want to chroot the user. Also have a google for suEXEC about running PHP (or any other CGI apps) as the user. Wish i could offer more help but it's been a fair few years since i've ran a webserver. Memory is rusty :(
<dogmatic69> WelshDragon: thanks, i think im slowly getting there
<dogmatic69> at least yours is rusty, mines non-existent :P
<WelshDragon> lol
<dogmatic69> im used to windows and reseller accounts. only been using ubuntu for 3 months or so
<mgdm> I believe the current 'state of the art' for PHP is mod_fastcgi, PHP with FPM, and mod_suexec
<mgdm> if you're on apache, that is. I don't know the details though, I've not set it up - there are howtos though
<dogmatic69> ye, running apache
<dogmatic69> i will look into this
<dogmatic69> im going to start with ip-tables
<dogmatic69> server has been going 3 days and there is already a million attempted logins :/
<jpds> dogmatic69: You have locked it down to just SSH key based logins right?
<dogmatic69> jpds: im not sure, followed some tutorials on slicehost when i joined
<dogmatic69> how can i check?
<jpds> dogmatic69: ssh -v $YOURSERVER
<jpds> And look for a line like: debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
<dogmatic69>  can anyone run that command?
<dogmatic69> like i can ssh -v random ip address?
<jpds> Yes.
<dogmatic69> is that info not a little bit telling
<dogmatic69> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password
<dogmatic69> so that is a #fail
<dogmatic69> :(
<jpds> dogmatic69: Security by obsurity isn't the answer. :)
<dogmatic69> cool
<jpds> dogmatic69: /etc/ssh/sshd_config â PasswordAuthentication no - if you want to disable passwords.
<dogmatic69> so i set up the ssh stuff but i dont think it works
<dogmatic69> i made a alias on my local, like slice = 'user@server' or something and it asks for the pw
<dogmatic69> i copied something, i think it was .ssh/id_rsa.pub to the server
<dogmatic69> this tutorial -> http://articles.slicehost.com/2010/10/18/ubuntu-maverick-setup-part-1
<dogmatic69> how do i login with no password?
<dogmatic69> ive added the .pub file to the server and it still asks for a pw
<danfish> evening
<danfish> dogmatic69: you didn't set a password when you generated a keypair right?
<dogmatic69> danfish: i believe i did
<danfish> from the client, the easiest way to put the key on the server is with ssh-copy-id username@remoteserver
<dogmatic69> i did scp ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub demo@123.45.67.890:
<dogmatic69> with the correct user/ip
<dogmatic69> then moved it to ~me/.ssh/authorized_keys
<dogmatic69> chown -R demo:demo ~demo/.ssh
<dogmatic69> chmod 700 ~demo/.ssh
<dogmatic69> chmod 600 ~demo/.ssh/authorized_keys
<dogmatic69> where demo is my user
<dipl0> +-
<dipl0> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<dipl0> ooer
<danfish> hmm - should work. I would probably 'start again' and 1) regenerate a passwordless local key pair 2) delete the authorized_keys file remotely and 3) ssh-copy-id username@remoteserver
<dogmatic69> why pwless
<dogmatic69> i like pw's besides local will remember it so its not needed all the time
<danfish> I thought you wanted passwordless login?
<dogmatic69> i want the public key login stuff
<dogmatic69> so this sshd_config should have PasswordAuthentication no
<dogmatic69> which i changed now, but still says Authentications that can continue: publickey,password and asks for a pw to log in
<dogmatic69> do you have to restart something after changing /etc/ssh/sshd_config
<dogmatic69> ah found it /etc/init.d/ssh reload
<dogmatic69> now it says Could not load host key: /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key
<nucc1_> can one use postfix as an smtp server for one domain, and as a secondary forwarding mail server for a second domain on a single machine?
<mgdm> nucc1_: yeah
<nucc1_> mgdm, ok, i'll try to find out how that is done.
<daubers> urgh,
 * daubers dislikes writing documentation
<WelshDragon> Writing documentation soothes the soul
<dogmatic69> ok i have finally got ssh login working, but it does not like my .pub key
<dogmatic69> server is saying Permission denied (publickey).
<daubers> dogmatic69: Try and login with ssh -vv to get a more detailed explaination
<mgdm> usually it means the permissions on /home/user/.ssh or /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys are too permissive
<dogmatic69> mgdm: what should they be?
<dogmatic69> its chown'ed to the user login in
<dogmatic69> and 700 chmod on .ssh
<dogmatic69> 600 on .ssh/authorized_keys
<mgdm> that should be correct
<mgdm> it's often that; not always, though
<dogmatic69> i used my .pub file that i use on github
<dogmatic69> is that ok?
<daubers> Blasted OOo
<AlanBell> daubers: my eldest learned today the importance of save early, save often
<daubers> Hah, hooray for unofficial mirrors
<daubers> AlanBell: Apparently OOo doesn't work with the latest JRE for OSX, and they've taken down the RC that fixes it
<AlanBell> did they do that for a good reason? i.e. does the unofficial mirror version you are looking to install actually kill kittens?
<daubers> AlanBell:No, the new RC is out shortly
<daubers> Did you manage to recover his document?
<AlanBell> hers, but no
<daubers> Ah. not in the backup folder?
<daubers> Or is backup not on?
<AlanBell> she now knows what "discard changes" means
<daubers> (I only discovered that OOo _can_ automatically backup the other day)
<daubers> Oops
<dogmatic69> danfish: thanks for the ssh-copy-id that worked
<daubers> AlanBell: How goes wooshy whizzy GL slideshows?
<AlanBell> not done much with it yet daubers
<daubers> Ah. I have an out of date copy of the OpenGL Redbook somewhere..... probably useless by now
<daubers> Only thing I did with it was make a 3D solar system with teapots instead of planets
<dutchie> useful
 * dutchie will remember to ask daubers for it if he ever ends up in a teapot universe
<AlanBell> first task is to change the red ball into a bitmap of some description
<AlanBell> text would appear to be quite a lot harder than I would have expected
<dutchie> is there not a higher level wrapper?
<mgdm> there are a few
<AlanBell> FTGL seems to be the most appropriate
<AlanBell> but the python wrappers for that are not packaged
<ali1234> opengl slideshow you say? i've coded many of those...
<ali1234> doing text in opengl is tricky, there is no real font support built in
<mgdm> last time I looked it involved FreeType and pain
<ali1234> i like to use webkit to render to a texture, then display that
<mgdm> and most of my interactions with FreeType have had pain
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OverView
<ali1234> but uploading the texture can be slow
<AlanBell> http://prezi.com/laeej1m7xjji/overview-zoomy-presentation-stuff-with-opengl/ this too
<ali1234> spec is somewhat vague...
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> but only because I don't know what I am doing
<ali1234> when i need to do something like this i just take out my basic framework and code up the specifics each time
<ali1234> because coding an app and a gui to make it would take forever
<AlanBell> what framework?
<ali1234> well the latest version is Qt based
<ali1234> it displays a series of html snippets over an animated opengl backdrop, with fading
<ali1234> the snippets are in a SQL database but the animation is hard coded because it's just easier
<gord> if you want to do text on opengl, honestly, use clutter. its text rendering is very good
<gord> basically does it as well as you should do it
<AlanBell> isn't clutter the toolkit that ran out of steam for unity?
<gord> sure, but we do crazy things. unity pushes a lot of boundries and stuff starts breaking when you push those boundries. that does not mean that clutter is a bad toolkit though, its pretty great
<gord> it just doesn't suit the needs of unity
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just been more cunning than the fox at mozilla...
<dogmatic69> how do i tell what network interface is being used on the server?
<BigRedS__> dogmatic69: what do you mean? is only one of them plugged in and you're wondering what that's called?
<BigRedS__> ifconfig will show all configured interfaces, ones with 'RUNNING' in the summary have a link up
<dogmatic69> BigRedS__: its cool, figured it out. just reading some stuff and it said make sure about the eth0
<dogmatic69> adding rules to iptables
 * AlanBell plays with some cunningness TheOpenSourcerer made
<mgdm> If I want an ffmpeg that can encode MP3s, do I need to compile it myself?
 * AlanBell declares TheOpenSourcerer to be more cunning than a fox who is professor of cunning at Oxford university
<AlanBell> !rip
<lubotu3> For information about the Sound Juicer ripping application see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CDRipping. To rip an Audio CD in KDE, put it in and then put audiocd:// in the Konqueror URL bar
 * bigcalm tapes a slug to AlanBell's upper lip
<AlanBell> I think you can record to mp3
 * TheOpenSourcerer decides, with that compliment from AlanBell, to retire before the cunningness gets too much.
<mgdm> Sound Juicer is irrelevant, it uses gstreamer
<TheOpenSourcerer> mgdm: I have never had to compile one.
<AlanBell> mgdm: yeah I was just getting to the links
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think it's in the ugly or really ugly package.
<AlanBell> looks like liblame is the mp3 encoding method in the documentation
<TheOpenSourcerer> "I have never had to compile one." that's not quite true, but not on Ubuntu you understand.
<AlanBell> and it looks like your options are uninstall ffmpeg and reinstall from medibuntu or compile it
<mgdm> 'darn'
<mgdm> how inconvenient
<AlanBell> silly Americans and their patent system
<mgdm> s/Americans and their/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu-restricted-extras:
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Installing this package will pull in support for MP3 playback and decoding, support for various other audio formats (GStreamer plug-ins), Microsoft fonts, Java runtime environment, Flash plug-in, LAME (to create compressed audio files), and DVD playback."
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/lame
<mgdm> aye, still won't replace ffmpeg though
<mgdm> I got around it via lame, though :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lame works fine. But of course just for learning and experimentation ;-)
<bigcalm> I was going to say. Why not just use lame
<mgdm> bigcalm: because if ffmpeg worked, I could do the entire transcode thing in one shot, rather than having to use intermediate files
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> You may continue
<mgdm> I will recompile it later, just can't be bothered right now
<bigcalm> Sounds like you need a minecraft break
<mgdm> I don't have minecraft, and only barely know what it is
<bigcalm> You should chat with popey ;)
<mgdm> it's a game, I doubt I'll be interested
<nucc1> no
<nucc1> erm, wrong channel.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Barcamp Southampton - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2010/11/28/barcamp-southampton/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-21
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning, Alan, Morning Alan and Good Morning everyone (To be said out load in the voice of Lionel Blue).
<popey> Heh
<DJones> Morning all
<awilkins> Oh what a lovely traffic jam.
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/287638-scroll-essential-tablet-pc-53511
<popey> el cheapo tablet in my ebuyer spam this morning
<popey> 1080p playback and hdmi out
 * AlanBell thinks popey is like this with tablets http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc
<AlanBell> you can't hug them all, but that one does look rather nice with the 2GB ram
<popey> more like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4&feature=related
<AlanBell> oh, 2GB of SD, only 256MB ram
<AlanBell> don't want to hug that one
<popey> hah
<DJones> Interesting tablet you've just linked on twitter, very good price, just looking for some reviews
<DJones> Storage Options is launching the product in time for Christmas and the new unit has already proved extremely popular with gadget enthusiasts and will be featuring on Channel 5âs the Gadget Show on 21st November 2011
<DJones> Will have to give that a watch tonight
<popey> heh
<popey> for nothing else as a little media player it might be useful
<popey> if you kill all background stuff
<DJones> Been debating about a kindle or a tablet for christmas, mostly for book reading, but maybe a bit of browsing & otehr android apps.  Memory looks a bit low at 256Mb ram though
<TheOpenSourcerer> If it is appropriate I'd suggest you look at the Nook (Barnes & Noble) who should be applauded (IMHO) for their stand against stupid software patents.
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm looking at that one and the one for sale in WH Smiths
<TheOpenSourcerer> They really are taking on MS et al, rather well.
<DJones> Hmmh, 256Mb ram, 2Gb builtin memory (+ I think micro sd) for the cheap scroll
<popey> 70 quid is very cheap for a tablet device
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can also put CM7 on the Nook if you feel hard enough ;-)
<popey> wow, 20 have sold since I posted that link
<awilkins> I just want a half decent family laptop
<DJones> Even their top of the range is only Â£109.99
<TheOpenSourcerer> They will all be on eBay in the next few days for ~Â£100
<popey> 4 hour battery â¨
<DJones> Its not bad for a cheaop tablet, although the screen is a bit small for my liking
<MartijnVdS> popey: â¤
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> popey: wow, that unicode block is full of win :)
<MartijnVdS> â¢
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<bigcalm> Good morning alive beings :)
<Myrtti> $timeofday
<popey_> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
 * bigcalm flippers popey
<MartijnVdS> eww?
<bigcalm> Hard to say, MartijnVdS
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> morning popey
<wintellect> o/
<andylockran> quick question regarding OSX/Ubuntu.  I would like to get an OSX Machine and RemoteDesktop into it from Ubuntu clients.  Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?
<ging> x2x might work on OSX
<MartijnVdS> OSX2OSX?
<andylockran> I'd like to use the OSX machine as the server
<JamesTait> Happy Monday!
 * mattt stares at JamesTait
<JamesTait> mattt: If I say it enough times, I'll start to believe it.
<mattt> JamesTait: haha, whatever works for you :D
<JamesTait> mattt: That remains to be seen. :-P
<gord> andylockran, any osx applications that support the vnc protocol should work fine
<bigcalm> Anybody here use Cybersource?
<andylockran> gord: they just seem a little bit slow.
<andylockran> gord: would it allow multi-users simultaneously?
<gord> andylockran, i doubt it very much
<Jungli> ubantards
<MooDoo> what?
<Jungli> hehhe kidding
 * TheOpenSourcerer haz Coffee and an Ecclefechan Tart!
 * daubers tries to make sure he has all the kit he needs for a brief foray into the outskirts of London
<DJones> daubers: Map, emergency rations, water, safety gear & rescue srvices on speed dial ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<RJAHILL> @andylockran - OSX has a vnc server buit in. go to preferences, sharing, Remote management. click Computer Settings and configure a password
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<daubers> DJones: Shotgun, satellite phone to get me the hell out :)
<daubers> You know, just the essentials
<DJones> daubers: I was thinking aling the lines of the shotgun :)
<DJones> Must admit, I don't like "Citys", too crowded for me
<kirrus> DJones: don't you mean cities? I know exactly what you mean, though. Left london after a year there, glad to.
<daubers> right
 * daubers heads off
<DJones> kirrus: Yep, good spot
 * popey would have suggsted daubers re-read http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/CarSurvivalKit
<MartijnVdS> "Laminated pictures of rod"?
<DJones> "Ladies of the night/Daviey/Creme Eggs/Apple Pie"  I don't even want to think how Daviey gets into that category
<andylockran> RJAHILL: yeah,  I'm using the builtin server - from osx machine it's great (even over wifi) - but from Ubuntu it's death.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: he made the apple pie
<DJones> :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<Myrtti> popey: if the list lacks "a Finn" it's not complete
<MartijnVdS> Humans don't have finns ;)
<MartijnVdS> uhr fins ;)
<MooDoo> have you lot gone nuts this morning?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: ?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: maybe we were nuts all along!
<Myrtti> I'm a pecan nut
<Myrtti> popey is a hazelnut
<Myrtti> MooDoo: you can be a pecan nut
<Myrtti> :-D
<bigcalm> o.O
<MooDoo> Myrtti: with my head then yes lol
<Myrtti> or a ... what's the thing
<popey> I'd prefer to be a macadamia tbh
<Myrtti> mmmm macadamia
<MartijnVdS> not a pistachio?
<Myrtti> chomp
<Myrtti> roasted and salted macadamias â¥
<Myrtti> MooDoo: walnut!
<MooDoo> yum
<dogmatic69> damn... 1.2Ghz usb stick http://www.helloandroid.com/content/cotton-candy-dual-core-android-powerhouse-usb
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: yeah $200 dollars though
<davmor2> morning all
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: not to bad really, that is some micro tech and pretty fast
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, proddity, prod
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: better than most $200 phones you will buy
<Myrtti> I had forgotten how nice a piece of toast with only cucumer tastes like
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> davmor2: she's silent again
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: she's working
<MooDoo> davmor2: i gathered
<AlanBell> working hard or hardly working
<davmor2> MooDoo: I just get my prods in while czajkowski can't reply then by the time she can I'm offline Muhahahaahahah
<MooDoo> ooo eviil
<MooDoo> davmor2: he're the prods from czajkowski then "prod prod prod prod prod x100 to make up for all yours"
<davmor2> MooDoo: I wouldn't worry it's czajkowski she gets her own back ;)
<mattt> http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses
<mattt> can anyone recommend a python bot?  similiar to ruby's rbot?
<kirrus> mattt: phenny?
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> I've been asked by work to get software for Bug tracking/Call logging/Assett Management together
<diplo> What I'd like to do is integrate a lot of these systems, any one got any recommendations
<diplo> ?
<DJones> mattt: Is supybot python?
<DJones> mattt: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gribble/index.php?title=Supybot_Install_Guide
<dogmatic69> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mi80x/give_me_that_one_command_you_wish_you_knew_years/
<Laney> hi thar
<MartijnVdS> <() and >()
<MartijnVdS> I wish I knew about those long a go
<MartijnVdS> "Process Substitution" in the bash manual, for interested people :)
<MartijnVdS> ooh.. the "Serve this directory + children over HTTP" - python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
<mattt> DJones: hehe, already installed that ... thanks :P
<mattt> kirrus: went w/ supybot, will check out phenny if it doesn't pan out
<DJones> mattt: This may be helpful as well for configuration, http://ubottu.com/guide/ or various things it does, the ubuntu bots are based on supybot
<mattt> DJones: brilliant, thanks!
<davmor2> gord: I just put in a request for most of December off I'm just awaiting the reply now :D
<brobostigon> question, best way to put a *.img designed for usb boot, would still be dd ?
<monsterwizard> I'm so interesting ina a lot of things
<monsterwizard> there's so little time to do everything
<monsterwizard> all I want to do is read about science and electronics
<monsterwizard> that's al I want tbh
<monsterwizard> and that's all I do in my spare time
<monsterwizard> but I want to do it allll
<monsterwizard> I want to do more
<davmor2> brobostigon: Take the over whelming silence to mean yes ;)
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, i would agree.
<ali1234> what others ways are there?
<ali1234> btw all ubuntu images are hybrid-iso now, which means you can dd them
<ali1234> no need for image creator or unetbootin
<DJones> I'm glad my phone isn't due for renewal until next year, this looks an interesting prediction/possibility http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/43148/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-2012
<andylockran> :)
<mattt> DJones: sweet, all good to go w/ SSL using twisted
<brobostigon> i was thinking about minix not ubuntu,
<AlanBell> that is interesting
<ali1234> minix srsly?
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, simply for research, into its microkernel properties, and similiarities in design to BeOS and haiku, which are also microkernels.
<ali1234> http://www.ebuyer.com/272786-synology-rs411-1u-8tb-nas-rack-solution-rs411-8tb vs http://www.ebuyer.com/268341-qnap-ts-412u-8tb-1u-rack-nas-solution-ts-412u-8tb
<ali1234> vs something else?
<ali1234> anyone got any advice on these?
<MartijnVdS> Synology++
<MartijnVdS> (but that's because I have several and LOVE their software)
<ali1234> really? they are cheapest too
<MartijnVdS> because it's the '11 model
<MartijnVdS> and the 412 will be coming out soonish
<andylockran> does anyone use AWS for hosting their DNS ?  route53 ?
<MartijnVdS> I use gandi.net -- I get my domains there too
<Myrtti> YIKES
<Myrtti> google plus just added everyone I've got in my Google circles into my Google Talk roster
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it does offer an opt-out
<Myrtti> I read it but didn't quite understand what it meant
<Myrtti> /o\
<andylockran> does anyone use AWS for hosting their DNS ?  route53 ?
<kirrus> andylockran: I guess that's a no :)
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: because privacy should totally be an opt-out thing rather than an opt-in? ;-)
<Myrtti> Pendulum: it was opt-in, but now I can't find opt-out
<AlanBell> is google talk something different to the chat thing and the hangout thing and the huddle thing?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: well up to recently the chat widget in gmail and g+ has been accessible via any XMPP client
<Myrtti> and still is
<Myrtti> now I've just got a person I accidentally approved to chat :-<
<Myrtti> oh man
<AlanBell> never really figured out the chat thing, I can't see how to add people
<AlanBell> looks like I can chat to MartijnVdS, Stephane Graber (who I don't really know) and Bilal Akhtar for some reason, thats it
<Myrtti> alright, managed to figure it out
<Myrtti> I can choose all, some or none of the circles
<AlanBell> does that just mean that the 268 other people in my circles don't use chat or something?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: they either get added automatically from your contacts or if you have gmail open, there's a little down arrow to the right of the Chat heading that you can click and will give you the option (at least in the old setup)
<Myrtti> and selecting none doesn't remove the people I've had in both g+ and gtalk
<Pendulum> Myrtti: where's the setting?
<Myrtti> Pendulum: right side of the Chat -title, little pulldown arrow, privacy settings
<AlanBell> aah, right you have to use gmail web client contacts for it to work
<Pendulum> Myrtti: odd, gives me settings, but not privacy settings
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/PfpE7Dqrfxf
<Myrtti> I've got it right underneath
<AlanBell> how did you add the circles to chat?
<AlanBell> wonder if this is something being selectively rolled out to special people first
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I just refreshed and I was prompted
<AlanBell> OK, I will wait for that to happen I guess
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi
<davmor2> MooDoo: ^ see
<davmor2> lo czajkowski
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 sup
<davmor2> czajkowski: nothing you prod
<czajkowski> I'm not a prod
 * czajkowski goes back to work 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: mwah! missed ya!
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't worry czajkowski will be back latter to annoy me I'm sure :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: good :)
<Myrtti> uuueerrrr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dlUi3DnrzA
<ali1234> yeah that's going to turn out really well when i'm doing some soldering
<popey> lol
<popey> love the way they fade it out just as he's about to use the keyboard
<popey> bet that doesnt work
<davmor2> popey: haha
<davmor2> popey: worse than that they haven't enable multi-touch yet so it sounds like a stylo-phone
<ali1234> i just don't think it will fit my workflow http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/desk.jpg
<popey> \o/ altoids
<bigcalm> popey: remember that site I keep pestering you with?
<bigcalm> It's now live
<popey> \o/
<davmor2> bigcalm: WooHoo
<bigcalm> I will say nothing about the design, but it "works" now
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahaha
<ali1234> popey: can i have a beta invite for trublr please?
<popey> ali1234: sure, I'll sort that out shortly, I need to update my package etc
<oimon> can anyone recommend a feed reader that syncs with google reader? liferea doesn't , and rssowl is super slow java klunkyness
<directhex> blam?
<popey> â¹  my cpu keeps overheating
<popey> well, hits a threshold
<popey> Nov 21 16:28:02 localhost kernel: [326407.708449] CPU0: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 26617717)
<popey> Nov 21 16:28:02 localhost kernel: [326407.708930] CPU0: Core temperature/speed normal
<popey> I get that quite a bit when it hits 80 degrees c
<gord> does this crazy new google+ talk thing affect all gtalk like things?
<gord> or just the google+ widget
<MooDoo> gord all
<MooDoo> gord: just had them all appear in pidgin :)
<oimon> YAY..liferea latest version supports google reader, despite the dev saying it wouldn't happen
<gord> popey, how i solved that problem, http://www.ebuyer.com/264011-corsair-hydro-series-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-cwch60 - never see my cpu above 40 now :) mostly < 30
<gord> plus, nice and quiet
<gord> oimon, is that latest version in the repos?
<popey> oooooo
<oimon> i'm on lucid gord so i'm not sure
<oimon> 1.7+ is required
<popey> gord: what cpu do you use that on?
<oimon> !info liferea
<lubotu3`> liferea (source: liferea): feed aggregator for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.4-1ubuntu7 (natty), package size 225 kB, installed size 764 kB
<gord> popey, some i7 variant, not sandybridge
<gord> quad core
<oimon> bah, still uses natty :(
<popey> my old desktop only has c2d
<popey> but then my i7 should be fixed tomorrow when engineer comes, so could use it on that
<gord> it comes with an adapter so it works on a lot of cpu/motherboard combinations
<popey> ooooo
 * popey gets two
<gord> liquid cooling sounds crazy, but now that i use it, going back to loud fans, that sounds crazy
<popey> coolio
<popey> \o/
<popey> done
<gord> :) you might not need this, turns out i did though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO9APx2yKrg
<oimon> did amazon mp3s go up in price? or were they always 79p?
<directhex> popey, this is your cheapo ebuyer pc?
<DJones> Any iphone/ipad owners looking for cheap games http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/43156/gameloft-unveils-biggest-ever-sale
<popey> directhex: overheating no
<popey> directhex: the cheapo ebuyer one went phut âº
<popey> engineer coming tomorrow
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/980/ the total perspective vortex
<AlanBell> everything you do, ever, is entirely economically insignificant
<MartijnVdS> ooh with google maps-y interface
<AlanBell> it is a spectacular bit of work that
<MartijnVdS> it has jokes too
<MartijnVdS> ("J.K. Rowling had she become a rapper"
<MartijnVdS> ("50 cent, adjusted for inflation")
<jutnux> Evening ladies.
<MartijnVdS> Oh sure, ignore the men.
<jutnux> I meant that :(
<jutnux> I believe it is Toast Sandwich o' clock in 40 minutes.
<Myrtti> harumph
<Myrtti> I thought Ubuntu membership gave access to LWN
<czajkowski> hmm so did I
<awilkins> :@
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/LWN
<AlanBell> haven't bothered registering myself
<Myrtti> I've done that years ago
<AlanBell> does it not work?
<Myrtti> logged in to read something gregkh posted in Google+ and no, it doesn't work
<penguin42> heck, todays Xkcd is massive
<awilkins> Yeah, too big for my phone.. will have to view it at home.
<mgdm> yeah
<mgdm> tl;dr
<mgdm> :)
 * penguin42 loves the random things he throws in 'value of a solid gold toilet (626 lbs) by year'
<MartijnVdS> I want one now
<penguin42> Martinp23: They say gold is quite soft, probably best not scrub it that hard
<penguin42> oops, wrong complete
<Azelphur> Steam, always bringing you the greatest specials. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8117884/photos/SteamSpecials.png xD
<MartijnVdS> -0%!
<MartijnVdS> That's a lot off
<Azelphur> indeed, should totally buy
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new music
<MartijnVdS> (from Norway)
<bigcalm> Oh?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_(Marit_Larsen_album)
<danfish> evening all
<danfish> MartijnVdS: she's rather good.
<danfish> "suffers" from the abba syndrome
<danfish> ie english as a second language meaning you can actually understand the lyrics ;)
<MartijnVdS> heh
<danfish> MartijnVdS: thanks for the python webserver tip thing - I'd forgotten that one. Very useful.
<MartijnVdS> danfish: same for me - until I saw it on reddit :)
<czajkowski> FYI folks: #rugbyrants exists for those who want to talk about rubgy
<Azelphur> but talking in here about random offtopic things is much more fun
 * Azelphur runs
<czajkowski> well not everyone follows it, and it worked out really well for the RWC to have a seperate channel
<AlanBell> is there more rugby happening?
 * Azelphur doesn't like rugby
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yeah a whole year of it :)
<mgdm> uhoh :P
 * daubers goes and finds some paints....
<jacobw> evening
 * czajkowski listens to zuma dance music and get to work on her emails 
 * czajkowski just watched Dr. Strangelove 
<daubers> czajkowski: Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
<czajkowski> great film
<jutnux> Anyone here done some of Project Euler?
<AlanBell> jutnux: I did a bit of it
<jutnux> AlanBell, Umhm, same.
<AlanBell> one remaining space for the christmas party
<jacobw> where is it?
<popey> in between me and AlanBell
<jacobw> sounds cozy
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<AlanBell> who could resist?
<jacobw> oh dear, it clashes with my company do
<jacobw> thanks for the offer though :)
<jacobw> eating and drinking in the dark sounds fun
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: that sounds like the complete opposite of anything I would ever want to do
<AlanBell> I am quite looking forward to it
<jacobw> c4 documentary about turing
<jacobw> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-greatest-codebreaker/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Ubuntu Commons - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/21/the-ubuntu-commons/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-22
<Guest2679> hey
<czajkowski> aloha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team IRC Meeting - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/22/canonical-community-team-irc-meeting/
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> mornings
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mornign doc.
<nigelb> Morning UK!
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> yay, fixed my unity3d
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<DJones> AlanBell: That'll teach you not to break it :)
<AlanBell> no it won't
<AlanBell> I plan to break it again at the weekend
<DJones> Oh dear
<DJones> With attitude, I think you should change your nick to Azel.phur
<DJones> What had happened to it
<AlanBell> I was testing an experimental plugin to tie compiz enhanced zoom to the text cursor position reported by at-spi
<AlanBell> so you type stuff and the zoom pans along with your typing
<DJones> So that it enlarges the area of the screen you're using at the time? That sounds useful for partially sighted users
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> nice for presentations too
<czajkowski> morning
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<DJones> That'd be good my wifes uncle, shame he lives in newcastle so its it a bit far to go & demonstrate
<AlanBell> good for quite a lot of people really
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> still one place left for the London christmas dinner
<MooDoo> wish i could
<daubers> Morning
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to empty file using sudo perms ?
<kaushal> I do not have root access
<bigcalm> sudo echo "" > file/to/empty
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: : > file_to_empty
<MartijnVdS> : is the "null" command
<daubers> Also, if file_to_empty is owned by root you might want to sudo -i first
<oimon> can someone remind me how to make a .deb file when compiling a program?
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<MooDoo> :p
<oimon> that'll do :)
<DJones> Does anybody know if there's a book/electronics high street store that sells Kindles, Nooks & Kobo e-readers side by side so I can go in and compare them
<DJones> I'm guessing that the kobo is only available at wh smiths, so probably just looking for somewhere with kindles & nooks
<dogmatic69> DJones: have you tried maplins?
<daubers> DJones: HMV might do
<daubers> (they're trying to reposition themselves in that kind of market)
<dogmatic69> my mom got my bro a kindle, but think it was online
<DJones> I'll give them both a look
<oimon> are kindles sold in high st?
<DJones> Tesco sell kindles in store
<DJones> As does Argos
<oimon> i guess a trip to one of those bluewater type places would do it
<DJones> I'm struggling to find anywhere that sells the nook though
<oimon> i think it should be legal to own an ebook of a paper book you own :(
<ubuntubhoy> you can scan it :D
<oimon> :'(
<oimon> getting this error: 'gio-2.0 >= 2.26.0' but version of GIO is 2.24.1- anyone know the package name on ubuntu for this?
<JamesTait> Goooooood moooooooornin' all!
<oimon> ah, think is libglib2.0-dev
<czajkowski> danfish: http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/11/21/diagnosia-secures-seed-round-to-create-global-drugs-info-search-engine/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/francis_maude_it_procurement/
<AlanBell> thanks
<AlanBell> "An average bidding process for a public sector contract currently takes around 200 days to complete." that will be why we don't bother
<oimon> anyone played zelda skyward sword yet?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: seems very long
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I can totally believe it, seeing as I have been working since May to put in something interesting into the cabinet office for free
<czajkowski> nods
<directhex> I think we gave 40 days for ITT response on our supercomputer tenders
<czajkowski> 200 seems excessive
<czajkowski> but given it's a government I'd expect it to be greater than 90
<oimon> 200 days for response? or 200 days for the start to finish of the process?
<AlanBell> I think that is start (internal writing the ITT) to awarding the contract
<oimon> sounds about right
<AlanBell> still not exactly agile
<directhex> writing an ITT is hard work
<directhex> so many cases need covering
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye it does seem long, however given it's a government contract I'd expect it to be thorough which is a pita to SMES
<AlanBell> yeah, they have the appearance of thoroughness
<AlanBell> but there are many many problems with them
<AlanBell> and with the general processes even outside of procurement
<czajkowski> nods
<AlanBell> there are things like security where the rules are a secret
<AlanBell> CSG GPG38 is all about guidance for security relating to open source software
<AlanBell> if you are an existing supplier you can get access to it . . .
<AlanBell> same goes for all security documentation, you can't see it if you are not an existing supplier so an open procurement process is a joke
<oimon> i can't even get to see the tender docs we're sending to companies
<czajkowski> AlanBell: do you think they are doing enough to change the process?
<AlanBell> dunno, they are scared of being sued by the suppliers if they do
<czajkowski> why would they be sued?
<davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod
 * daubers will be thoroughly amused by the day that czajkowski goes postal and beats davmor2 to death with a shovel
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<oimon> or goes portal and sends him into a wormhole
<gord> must sell popcorn to that event
<gord> will make a fortune
<bigcalm> How will you spend it when you're dead?
<oimon> this is the problem all of mankind has bigcalm
<czajkowski> daubers: we were very well behaved at UDs, davmor2 even left me alone when he saw how sore I was
<AlanBell> czajkowski: as Francis Maude said, the UK takes a very strange angle on European Legislation
<czajkowski> but I did have bruises on my arm from the pokings
<czajkowski> indeed
<AlanBell> like we actually do what it says
<AlanBell> the rest of Europe treats it like the pirates code
<czajkowski> hmm
<AlanBell> more of a guideline than an actual law ya see, arrr
<czajkowski> I'm not entirely too sure that's a fair comment
<AlanBell> they are very scared of being protectionist
<oimon> poking can be construed as sexual harassment
<davmor2> czajkowski: it is
<czajkowski> oimon: it's an ongoing joke it's fine
<shauno> just don't poke people you don't know so well.  that can get awkward
<davmor2> oimon: that's why I prod not poke :P can't be misconstrued as a sexual event then :D
<MartijnVdS> it could be
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you need mind bleach ;)
 * AlanBell thinks davmor2 is pure and innocent of mind
<AlanBell> and further, PHP sucks
<davmor2> AlanBell: Stop that laughing
<MooDoo> AlanBell: davmor2 pure as the driven snow...........WELL DRIVEN! :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: no PHP only sucks if you don't know how to program in it backward, forwards and sideways,  then it's the perfect tool
<AlanBell> don't eat the yellow snow
<MooDoo> AlanBell: that's a good tip :D
<AlanBell> the lack of debugging is annoying me
<davmor2> AlanBell: don't give out me waiters tip to everyone
<davmor2> AlanBell: that's cause you're meant to program it right in the first place ;)
<AlanBell> it should generate an error message saying "no you loon, you didn't close that quote" or "semicolon at the end of line 234 would be nice please"
<AlanBell> rather than returning a totally blank page with no indication why
<MooDoo> <?php phpinfo(); ?>  there you go that's the only php code you'll need  ;)
<daubers> AlanBell: You could turn the debugging info on.....
<daubers> Thought that used to do that
<AlanBell> it does do some debugging, but miss an end quote and I get the the silent treatment
<BigRedS> AlanBell: then turn on error display?
<BigRedS> Ohhh
<BigRedS> Hm, I've never seen that before. But I don't write PHP, I just do Bad Things to other people's
<daubers> AlanBell: odd, it used to whinge at me something cronic
<BigRedS> yeah, if you set display_error to on, and error_reporting to something fairly verbose i'd have thought it'd complain there
<daubers> Default seems to be E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE
<daubers> Might be a notice rather than an error :)
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: install xdebug
<AlanBell> change from E_WARNING to E_ALL
<BigRedS> but not in production
<dogmatic69> add something like this to /etc/php/conf.d/xdebug.ini http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1339523901
<AlanBell> that seems better now
<AlanBell> thanks dogmatic69, I will try that later
<Twinkletoes> What's the easiest way to prevent cron from starting a script if it hasn't finished from the last time?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: there are loads of other options in xdebug, one little error is now like 10 pages of debug info
<AlanBell> Twinkletoes: you can use a pid file, but watch out for stuff crashing and leaving the file behind
<AlanBell> or just schedule runs further apart
<Twinkletoes> AlanBell: Ok, so it's not a cron thing then, I just have to manage my scrpts?
<BigRedS> the pid file is a pretty good way to detect crashing, too
<AlanBell> yeah, it should check for the process and the file and deal with that situation ideally
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: the app you are coding might be overloading the error reporting default also, that will cause white screens
<IMLI> I have dell gx 280.I am using Ubuntu 11.10 but im unable to resize my resolution which is stuck on 1024x786 but my screen resolution is 1280x1024.Is there anyway to resize my screen resolution?
<bigcalm> imexil: what is the graphics chip in it?
<bigcalm> nNivdia, ATI, Intel?
<imexil> ???
<bigcalm> Sorry
<bigcalm> IMLI: ^^
<imexil>  !
<IMLI> I have Intel 915 motherboard and dont have any external graphics card.I am using built in grapihcs
<bigcalm> IMLI: see if there are any restricted drivers available to install
<IMLI> There is no restricted drivers to installed i have already checked
<IMLI> Intel 82915G/GV/910GL
<apw> is the monitor directly connected to the machine or via a KVM
<davmor2> IMLI: I'm assuming you have tried the screen resizing tool correct
<IMLI> My monitor is directly connected to the machine.
<IMLI> Is there anyway to set my screen resolution?
<apw> IMLI, if the machine is not letting you set the resolution via the normal tools, then likely it is not sensing the capabilities of the monitor correctly, and working to protect it
<apw> IMLI, the guys on #ubuntu-x may be able to figure out what is up
<bigcalm> I was trying to work out what country #ubuntu-x was for :S
<MooDoo> bigcalm: doh!
<IMLI> I think my video driver is not supported by ubuntu
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's the Xiachuan Dao of china I think you'll find
<daubers> IMLI: it's more liklely that your monitor is not telling your laptop what res it supports correctly. Loads of monitors do that
 * daubers has a collection of about 5 monitors all of which incorrectly report their resolution
<IMLI> Can i edit .XORG file?
<davmor2> daubers: I have a great monitor it reports both it's x and y resolution as 1024x768
<daubers> davmor2: Gotta love those "standards"
<davmor2> daubers: shockingly linux gets it wrong, mind you since I've plugged my win7 box in it I can happily confirm that so does Windows :)
<bigcalm> christel: ping
<gord> technically, the monitor gets it wrong ;) reports bad information
<christel> bigcalm: pong
<gord> I've seen that happen with less than quality VGA cables - too much interference on the line
<davmor2> so gord ccsm you love it right? /me heads for the bomb shelter :D
<mattt> wow-wee-woo
<mattt> busy morning :(
<oimon> with cups server , it used to be possible to unpublish printers via the cups web interface. now i can't see it in the newer versions - anyone know where to find it?
<oimon> DJones: tesco are selling kindles for Â£79 with a promo code
<oimon>  you can get Â£10 off fromÂ Tesco DirectÂ using the codeÂ TDX-NTRYÂ until Thursday Â 1 December 2011
 * penguin42 wants the Fire when they get their arse in gear and start selling it in the UK
<DJones> oimon: yeah, I know about that offer
<DJones> penguin42: I was tempted by the fire, but the reviews I've read in the last 24 hours aren't very good
<penguin42> DJones: Oh I don't want it for any of the firmware that's on it.
<DJones> You going to root & install a fresh os on it
<penguin42> DJones: Yeh, as a cheap dev board it sounds quite nie
<penguin42> c
<ali1234> is it the good kindle with the keyboard or the crap new one where you have to scroll through the alphabet to enter any text?
<oimon> depends on your needs but my missis hasn't required keyboard entry to turn pages in an ebook
<ali1234> how do you search?
<gord> i don't think people do.. i know when i buy books for my kindle, i go to amazon.co.uk and let them sync over
<oimon> she reads novels, so doesn't do any searching
<gord> the physical keyboard with eink is a pain at the best of times
<oimon> what makes me laugh is the price of the case
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team 12.04 Plans - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/22/canonical-community-team-12-04-plans/
<dogmatic69> if i am running two drives for a dual boot, if one dies will the other os still boot?
<gord> depends on the drive :)
<dogmatic69> :/
<gord> if grub is installed on drive a and drive a dies, it won't boot
<gord> if drive b dies, it will
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> gord: is there a way to have a setup that is less 'fragile'
<gord> i think failing drives is your fragile part
<dogmatic69> ye
<oimon> what's on the 2nd drive?
<AlanBell> you can install grub on both
<dogmatic69> well im thinking ubuntu on A and xzy on B. could be windows or anything
<AlanBell> the bios (or uefi) probably won't be that happy about a dead powered up disk
<AlanBell> but if you remove it then it should attempt to boot the other, no more primary/secondary dip switches
<AlanBell> not even sure how sata chooses which disk to boot first?
<gord> boot order in the bios
<oimon> you can't put kindle books on your wishlist :(
<oimon> Today i learned that the author of the tripods books wrote a prequel 20 years later in 1988
<penguin42> oimon: Was that around the time of the BBC series?
<oimon> penguin42: that came out in 1984
<penguin42> huh ok
<oimon> so probably was a result
<oimon> i heard rumours they may be making a film
<oimon> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441811/
<oimon> penguin42: are you the right age to remember the BBC series?
<oimon> i was 9 or 10. it was brilliant.
<penguin42> oimon: Yes
<penguin42> I would have been about 12
<davmor2> oimon: you mean this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/tripods/
<DJones> Was that the series that they never finished televising, they didn't get the final series made
<MooDoo> blimey i remember watching that
<davmor2> MooDoo: showing your age now
<oimon> yeah, no series 3...BBC screwed up
<DJones> I thought the code names for Ubuntu where a bit odd, but this is even funnier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_kernel_names
<MooDoo> homicidal dwarf hamster lol
<DJones> Sheep on Meth :)
<oimon> not sure if the tripods film will ever be made :(
<MooDoo> boooo
<MooDoo> i suppose we have falling skies :)
<DJones> Thats reminded me I want to read that 3rd book to find out what happened
<davmor2> MooDoo: Give me the Jeff Wayne version of war of the worlds any day :)  although tripod was addictive viewing at the time
<freakyclown> the tripods was cool
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah, you're a tom cruise version kinda guy aren't you ;)
<MooDoo> did i say guy...what i meant was...... :p
<freakyclown> there is a tripod in woking
<freakyclown> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=woking+tripod&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=h7HLTpGdHdGE-wbVn8jRDg&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1221&bih=573
<freakyclown> can also buy the series on dvd http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000R21294/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=aheadofthetim-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B000R21294
<davmor2> MooDoo: Note the JEFF WAYNE version bit!!!!  as in the cd with Richard Burton that freaked out the Americans when the BBC played it :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know i know
<oimon> i worry that watching the DVD would disappoint me. i prefer my 25yr old memories
<oimon> just like the grpahics and gameplay of my old 8-bit computer games
<freakyclown> i watched it fairly recently as in like <6months
<freakyclown> its REALLY good
<oimon> but no series 3 :(
<freakyclown> the production value was through the roof!
<freakyclown> hard to imagine them using life size props of legs etc for todays shows
<oimon> maybe the BBC should remake it , rather than that torchwood crap
<freakyclown> it would be crap cgi at 5xs the price :/
<freakyclown> oimon: NO they would turn it INTO that kinda crap
<freakyclown> same as the new reddwarf will be crap too
<DJones> Its amazing how good the quality of a lot of the early sci-fi authors was considering the time the books were written, E E Doc Smith's Lensman series or The Beyond The Blue Event Horizon series
<oimon> and probably turn it into a love triangle story between the three men
<oimon> nwew reddwarf?
<freakyclown> oimon: it would be like the gayification of frodo and samwise
<oimon> lol
<freakyclown> oimon: new series being filmed
<oimon> oh dear
<freakyclown> indeed :/
<oimon> have they learned nothing?
<penguin42> talking of remakes - there is a remake of the remake of the Thing due out any day
<freakyclown> yep...people will watch it in hopes and they will get paid and we will have hopes and dreams crushed
<freakyclown> penguin42: i bet its cgi too
<davmor2> penguin42: the first one is still the best
<penguin42> well, I don't have too big a problem with a bit of cgi
<DJones> I wonder how long it'll be before they remake Space 1999
<freakyclown> when its used righ its amazing
<freakyclown> when its used to save time building a prop that would look better...no
<oimon> the thing was the most gory film i ever saw
<oimon> when the dogs head peeled back like a banana
<penguin42> DJones: they'll never be able to replicate the tacky technology
<freakyclown> money cant buy cheapness
<penguin42> (although they did have portable video phones, so they do have to have credit for that)
<DJones> penguin42: Probably not, but I could see them doing something similar to the way star trek was done
<freakyclown> its why enterprise will never be better ST orig
<freakyclown> you mean the way they replaced some of the stuff with cgi
<oimon> bob the builder is CGI now :(
<penguin42> freakyclown: I liked the 1st series of enterprise, it was all nicely tacky
<freakyclown> having just literally last week finished watching the rejig'd star treks back to back
<freakyclown> i have to say it wasnt too bad!
<DJones> I preferred Star Trek Next Generation to the original series, but DS9, Voyager & Enterprise weren't that good
<davmor2> I like the new startrek film
<penguin42> davmor2: Except for Scotty I agree
<freakyclown> DJones: i bet your about 30ish arnt you?
<DJones> I wish
<penguin42> giggles - yeh determining age by preference of ST series
<daubers> davmor2: As did I
<DJones> 30 was a long time ago
 * daubers tended to prefer DS9
<penguin42> actually, I prefer NG even though I'm much nearer 40
 * penguin42 looks at daubers oddly
<freakyclown> babylon 5 was a good use of cgi
<DJones> penguin42: I can give you over 5 years then
<daubers> penguin42: I like the wild westy "We're stuck in one place for most of it" feel of ds9
<oimon> how can i use egrep to say look for "word" and either 1 or 2
<oimon> i.e. egrep word | egrep "1|2" file
<penguin42> oimon: "word[12]" ?
<DJones> One remake/re-imagining I did enjoy was the recent series of "V"
<daubers> DJones: new battlestar was very good, not seen the new V though
<DJones> daubers: I didn't like battlestar
<oimon> penguin42:  what if it's word and 404 or 401
<DJones> Bring back Sapphire & Stell :)
<penguin42> oimon: word40[14]
<DJones> steel even
<penguin42> DJones: Hoho - that was odd
<oimon> hmm..404 or 302?
<oimon> last one i promise :)
<penguin42> (although I can't actually remember the detail of any s&s episode)
<DJones> Just looking through this list, some names I don't remember http://totalscifionline.com/features/5769-the-100-greatest-sci-fi-fantasy-tv-shows
<penguin42> oimon: Hmm word(302|404) seems to work
<oimon> ah, round brackets..
<DJones> penguin42: One of the scariest I remember where the Quatermass films
 * penguin42 hands DJones a cactus
<oimon> penguin42: that might look for word302 and word404, rather than occurences on the line
<gord> i should really stop writing important things in to tomboy
<penguin42> oimon: you mean you want something like word.*(302|404) ?
<gord> should just be called Write Only
<freakyclown> how cow i need a life :(
<freakyclown> there is only about 12 or 15 series on that list ive not watched :/
<oimon> gord: what happened?
<gord> nothing?
<oimon> penguin42: seems not to work for me. thanks anway...i'll keep trying
<gord> i'm saying i don't read the notes i write...
<oimon> ah
<davmor2> DJones: theres about 12 on that list that I haven't heard of or seen
<oimon> better than writing on post-its i guess
<gord> post-its live on the side of your monitor, you do see them
<DJones> Ooh, must be due for a new series of Sanctuary soon, started premiering in the US in October
<gord> tomboy lives in a tiny indicator that looks like the email indicator right next to it
<oimon> and on my phone
<freakyclown> tomboy++
<gord> ha, that list ranks dr who higher than star trek, twilight zone, xfiles and the prisoner. ignoring!
<DJones> gord: And so it should
<oimon> tom baker
<freakyclown> oh please mccoy
<freakyclown> if only for alice!
<gord> dr who has and will always be fairly poor and shoddy enjoyable cult sci-fi - enjoyable but not truly great
<DJones> Best doctors... William Hartnell & Patrick Troughtman
 * penguin42 rather liked Tom Baker
<penguin42> anyone for a jelly baby?
<DJones> And I guess John Pertwee
<DJones> I guess pickingthe 1st 3 doctors does show my age :)
<oimon> freakyclown: alice? is that sophie aldred?
 * penguin42 suspects DJones runs his computer in monochrome
<DJones> penguin42: Robot hand attached to the computer that draws on a slate
<penguin42> nod
<oimon> eww
<freakyclown> alice sophie smae thing
<freakyclown> ace was the character
<oimon> must have been your hormones awakening or something
<freakyclown> oh pleasee she was hot
<freakyclown> was also in our school sex-ed video nude so that helped :/
<MooDoo> yay ace :)
<oimon> aghghh
<oimon> what possesses people to star in those school vids
<oimon> i still refer to my previous hormones comment, especiaally after your revelation
<bigcalm> So the gb archive for ubuntu has stopped serving karmic-updates ?
<bigcalm> This is annoying
<oimon> !support
<lubotu3`> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<oimon> meh
<penguin42> bigcalm: You do know what year it is don't you?
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Actually, it's my sources list that's at fault. It should still be pointing at karmic
<daubers> in inkscape, is there a way of creating a node where two lines intersect?
<DJones> Don't you need old-releases.ubuntu.com for karmic now
<oimon> does rhythmbox have amazon mp3 purchase support? i guess not
<davmor2> oimon: not that I'm aware of
<oimon> each time started banshee to buy mp3's lately, it's hung or crashes
<davmor2> oimon: this is why banshee needs to die in the flames of hell
<oimon> i dislike rhythmbox intensely- am i holding it wrong?
<davmor2> oimon: it has great features they just refuse to work
<oimon> have you ever used the cover manager in clementine? 50x better than banshee's one , since it actually downloads cover art
<gordonjcp> I've never managed to get rhythbox to work, basically this decade
<davmor2> gordonjcp: seriously what do you do to it
<oimon> it doesn't even handle single playing of files properly
<davmor2> oimon: it does the same thing as banshee imports and then plays or am I missing something
<oimon> doesn't seem to work for me if i click a file from nautilus which is setup to open with rhythmbox
<oimon> as i say, i must be using it wrong
<oimon> i wish i could see a video demo of it , done by someone who uses it well
<davmor2> oimon: need to wait till they fix up the U1 music shop then I could
<gordonjcp> davmor2: no idea
<gordonjcp> davmor2: lots of stuff just plain doesn't work
<penguin42> gah, amazon mp3 won't install these days
<davmor2> penguin42: you on 64bit?
<penguin42> davmor2: Yeh but the bigger problem is that it depends on about 50 ancient libboost versions
<davmor2> penguin42: sadtrombone.com
<penguin42> hehe
<MooDoo> http://tomahawk-player.org/about
<oimon> u1 music store is ~Â£1 more per album than amazons
<penguin42> oimon: Especially since this is an amazon free track
<oimon> and individual tracks are 99p vs 79p..
<oimon> and the killer is that half the music i search more doesn't exist there
<davmor2> oimon: indeed, I have found some cheaper but on the whole not often
<oimon> itunes has the hipster tax of Â£1 per album too
<oimon> MooDoo: any good?
<MooDoo> oimon: not used it, although i believe czajkowski was going to review it, she might be the better person to ask
<czajkowski> eh?
<oimon> anyone use a mac with windows keyboard attached?
<shauno> not on a regular basis, but I have
<oimon> user is complaining that \ key is missing/unmapped in lion
<oimon> any ideas?
<oimon> never touch macs so trying to find out before going in and looking like a chump
<shauno> the mac UK layout is very, very similar to a regular US layout.  so most chances they'll find it where # is marked
<davmor2> czajkowski: who let you out of the play pen?
<shauno> if you can find them a US keyboard, they'll fare much better.  otherwise, pretend they're using a US layout that happens to have a fat enter key
<oimon> ugh sounds hideous..i guess most people give up and buy an apple keyboard
<czajkowski> davmor2: hush you
<davmor2> czajkowski: Nope :P
<shauno> oimon: you can shoe-horn in a custom keymap, eg http://liyang.hu/osx-british.xhtml
<shauno> I tend to just ignore it and carry on with life tho.  the amiga-uk layout is different to the pc-uk layout too, and I keep stumbling across US keyboards at work.  As long as no-one puts azerty infront of me, I'm happy
<oimon> shauno: i found that exact page :)
<popey> i used to teach courses in belgium. their azerty keyboard would mess with me all the time
<oimon> azerty should be banned
<shauno> oimon: seems to be the least out-of-date I could find.  after that, it's looking for tools to write your own keymap.  and at that point, a new keyboard is cheaper than my manhours
<davmor2> popey: not that was a qwerty keyboard it's just the alcohol is stronger out there :P
<oimon> they mess around with ; and : and , . too
<penguin42> popey: That's the one with numbers in exactly the wrong place?
<oimon> ah, thats it..shift to get numbers
<oimon> must have been designed by government committee
<shauno> that's one thing that did trip me up a couple of months ago.  I accidentally managed to put the GBP sign in my password (I wasn't thinking, and just did shift+3 - this keyboard doesn't have the GBP glyph on it)
<shauno> and then managed to lock my account by borrowing a machine that had a US keyboard :(
<popey> yeah
<popey> insane keyboard
<penguin42> what ever happened to the magic for typing a character by ascii value on the keypad?
<shauno> between macs and laptops, I've very few machines where that works anymore
<shauno> besides, on a sensible machine where the alt key actually provides alternate characters, instead of using win31's braindead move of using it as a menu accelerator, I don't tend to need to remember ascii
<Apacheuk> afternoon everyone
<MooDoo> hiya
<shauno> oh no .. just realised thanksgiving is this week :(
<gord> oh no
<shauno> I really don't like working thanksgiving.  we get some of the most idiotic calls
<oimon> due to american office being off?
<shauno> yeah
<oimon> i got to the mac and realised it is a very unintuitive interface
<oimon> took me ages before realising how to add a printer. then it failed
<shauno> settings -> printers -> 'add' button is unintuitive?
<oimon> didn't see the tiny + button
<oimon> and couldn't resize printer list window
<shauno> I'm half curious to try it on ubuntu so far.  I'd be highly amused if I finally found something ubuntu did better on the desktop
<oimon> this is lion btw..don't know if previous are different
<gord> huh, thats interesting, firefox 4 on 11.10 and 11.04 doesn't say ubuntu in the user agent string - no wonder the whole distrowatch thing happened
<oimon> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/it/print/mac-images/print-and-scan.png
<shauno> it's about the same .. and +/- controls at the end of a modifyable list are pretty standard elements
<oimon> i just didn't notice the + for ages...
<gord> why would you add a printer?
<gord> i just connect the printer, then go to print, then it works
<oimon> because mac didn't know it was there
<oimon> then i chose the apple driver and it failed
<oimon> then i chose the cups driver and that failed too
<gord> baaad printer
<oimon> bad apple
<gord> prolly won't work on ubuntu well either
<oimon> course it does
<oimon> it's supported officially on apple too
<oimon> it's a standard HP
<oimon> also, i went to localhost:631 and added it there, but mac print dialog doesn't seem to use those printers :-\
<oimon> had to apologise and leave
<popey> gord: distrowatch doesnt work like that
<popey> gord: they look at hits on the page not referrers aiui
<oimon> ways to win at distrowatch.. invent a new OS name and get popular sites to mention it
<gord> ahayzen, thats beyond useless then
<gord> ... ah
<gord> not ahtab
<oimon> lol
<oimon> ihihihhi
<gord> oh awit its because i did ah, - the comma next to the ah expanded it. lame
<oimon> ah, really?
<gord> depends on your client and settings obviously :P
<popey> ah, yes
<indy_> hi
<indy_> how do i fix the ubuntu corrupted recovery screen?
<indy_> when I load it the screen is garbled
<ahayzen> gord: Hi .... i was like wht is useless? lol :)
<geekMePlease> Do you need to check data-roaming if you want to use Mobile Broadband?
<dogmatic69> no, unless you are not in your home country
<geekMePlease> dogmatic69: Ok, thanks! Have a few problems in setting mobile broadbank to my ZTE light
<dogmatic69> roaming is using networks outside your providers network
 * dogmatic69 checks the channel topic
<dogmatic69> nope, its still about ubuntu
<brobostigon> http://code.google.com/p/android-x86/downloads/list  interesting, android 3.2.2 on x86.
<shauno> dash is seriously interesting.  I can't imagine actually using it, but it's fun to poke at
<geekMePlease> Has anyone ever added an external antenna to a tablet?
<davmor2> shauno: dash is great fun and faster than opening nautilus then finding a file then opening it in an app for example
<CreakyBore> /help
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<shauno> a little bummed that you can't type paths into it if you want to.  and you can't use initials either
<MartijnVdS> Also, if you press Enter too fast, some other program might be started on Alt+F2
<shauno> ok, that's odd.  this time it did let me write a path.  last time /home/soneil/ opened firefox and sent me to www.home.com
<shauno> (I don't have a ~ key in my VM, for various reasons)
<shauno> ah.  if it's invoked with alt+f2, /home/user works.  if invoked with super_L, it doesn't
<shauno> one silly question tho .. how do I find out what release I'm on ?
<bigcalm> cat /etc/lsb-release
<bigcalm> Or: new_booking.thtml
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Or: lsb_release -r
<shauno> yeah I know lsb_release.  I was more looking for the 'about ubuntu' dialog that used to be right beside 'about gnome' in one of the menus
<bigcalm> The dangers of having 2 copy buffers
<awilkins> shauno, The "System Info" application (how it appears in Dash)
<shauno> ah, that's more like it - thanks
<awilkins> shauno, Seems to be a sub-pane of the new settings widget
<_Roman> Hello I am using Ubuntu 9.10.  I have just tried doing an apt-get update command and keep getting errors like the following:
<_Roman> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.170 80]
<popey> !karmic
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://goo.gl/UUTAB for details.
<popey> _Roman: karmic is end of life so it's not in the standard repositories anymore
<_Roman> Does that mean that all the package repositories have now been removed?
<popey> no, moved
<_Roman> what do I need to do in order to access them?
<popey> to another server 'old-releases'
<popey> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
<popey> you can edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and change 'archve.ubuntu.com' to 'old-releases.ubuntu.com'
<Myrtti> ho-hum.
<_Roman> thanks, that is working great.
<Myrtti> there goes shred
<Myrtti> :-(
<popey> shred?
<Myrtti> have to give my old laptop in at latest next week
<popey> â¹
<oly> anyone got an Andy Pad, thinking of getting one as an e-book reader which does abit more
<gord> new japanese candy for gord \o/
<kirrus> is candyjapan worth it then gord?
<gord> i think it is, but i'm a giant nerd
<gord> lots of cool stuff this time - http://i.imgur.com/ptg7X.png
<davmor2> gord: what the hell is that?
<gord> davmor2, candy japan, a club that sends you japanese candy every two weeks - i got pokemon gummies, *three* pikachus in that. i don't know what anything else was. some sticks that tasted like fizzy soda and cola, and some soda chewy things
<davmor2> gord: madness ;)
<gord> i'm bring some down to the lighthouse sometime :)
<gord> was gonna bring the red bean candy last time but you wouldn't like that... tasted like potatoes
<jutnux> Mm, doner kebab.
<smittix> Evening all.
<davmor2> gord: nice
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
 * davmor2 hugs czajkowski 
<davmor2> see how many people are paying attention
 * czajkowski pours a bucket of ice over davmor2 
 * jutnux stabs czajkowski
<davmor2> jutnux: I don't think stabbing czajkowski is allowed
<jutnux> I will face the punishment :'(
<czajkowski> jutnux: oi
<czajkowski> there is no stabbing of me allowed
<jutnux> I see no law!
<czajkowski> only davmor2 and MooDoo are in the naughty category
<jutnux> Kinky ^_^
<jutnux> So, what languages do y'all program in?
<davmor2> jutnux: there is only one programming language
<dwatkins> COBOL? ;)
<davmor2> dwatkins: Heretic, Burn the witch!
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: brainf***?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: See above
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: I write Perl :)
<jutnux> Perl is too old :|
<dwatkins> Yeah, I was kidding, we all know everyone should program in assembler.
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: Why? It's on a yearly release cycle now
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: My heart goes out to you it really does :'(
<MartijnVdS> 5.14 is out
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: Is it? Oh, haha.
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's a lovely language :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I've seen perl and people who know it I admire but I'll stick to python ta
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I love python too :)
<jutnux> davmor2: What GUI do you use for Python?
<MartijnVdS> gui?
<MartijnVdS> people use guis?
<jutnux> Well
<jutnux> when you program with it
<jutnux> When you program a GUI
<davmor2> jutnux: Gui?
<MartijnVdS> I just use vim
<jutnux> What framework
<jutnux> Arghhhhhh
<jutnux> Mindfu**
<MartijnVdS> vim \o/
<jutnux> Like wxWidgets, PyGTK?
<jutnux> Sorry guys, tired.
<davmor2> jutnux: I don't
<MartijnVdS> I don't write GUI apps, I do web apps and backend daemons :)
<jutnux> Oh right.
<jutnux> Is Vim any good MartijnVdS?
<jutnux> I liked emacs
<jutnux> Vim I have no idea what plugins to use
<MartijnVdS> I don't use plugins, I think
<davmor2> jutnux: I prefer Geany for writing in
<MartijnVdS> well a gnupg one
<jutnux> I love java either way
<funkyHat> Java makes me â¢(
<jutnux> Java is sexy.
<MartijnVdS> Java is way too verbose for me
<MartijnVdS> You need to create (anonymous) classes for everything because of the strict typing straitjacket
<MartijnVdS> you can't "cheat" if you don't need that level of complexity
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: exactly, Java is *horribly* verbose
<Linuxsapien> olla
<AlanBell> hi Linuxsapien
<Linuxsapien> AlanBell: hi
<Linuxsapien> I want an ubuntu cloak :D
<AlanBell> !member
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<AlanBell> !cloak
<lubotu3`> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup -  For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
<AlanBell> you need to be a member to get an ubuntu cloak
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Linuxsapien> ah well, im all signed up for years with my number and everything, thanks :D
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-23
<Linuxsapien> have to wait for the meeting, oh well no rush :D
 * Linuxsapien listening to some amiga mods
<penguin42> heck I wish I knew why pa decides to change the sink for no good reason
<Azelphur> I wish I knew why my sound continually drops out in WoW with pa :(
<penguin42> Azelphur: Do you mean clicking or for a few seconds or drops and stays gone?
<Azelphur> penguin42: it drops and stays gone, I have to go into sound options in WoW and change the sound device back and fourth until it comes back
<Azelphur> usually drops out after loading screens although can drop out randomly at any time
<penguin42> Azelphur: Try comparing the output of pactl info   when it's happy and when it's gone
<Azelphur> will do :P
 * hamitron yawns
<Linuxsapien> yes I know hamitron
<hamitron> late and bored
<hamitron> ;)
<Linuxsapien> it is yes
<Linuxsapien> technically about 22 minutes later up here in scotland ;)
<hamitron> erm, 22? ;/
<Linuxsapien> and now ive bugger up my keyboard shortcuts.. del takes a screenshot.. eek!
<Linuxsapien> i give up, time to idle, gnite, strangers/friends
<hamitron> nn pien
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning peeps!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Light Out Of Darkness - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/23/light-out-of-darkness/
<DJones> Morning all
<smittix> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<smittix> Only just gotten round to watching Transformers last night
<smittix> Can't believe I didn't watch it sooner. Awesome movie.
<ubuntubhoy> quick call for help - how do I connect to a network over wifi in recovery mode ?
<MooDoo> morning all
<hoover> Morning all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://techie-buzz.com/foss/french-government-open-source.html
 * MooDoo thinks AlanBell should tender for it ;)
<AlanBell> wouldn't get out of bed for something that small
<MooDoo> hehe
<AlanBell> joking apart 2 million euro over 3 years really doesn't buy much support at all
<MooDoo> AlanBell: aren't you a 2 man team, or do you have other support staff too?
<AlanBell> two of us
<AlanBell> that contract is only going to pay salary for 10 full time employee equivalents at the very very most
<MooDoo> hmmm 10 is not a lot for that typw of contract.
<AlanBell> depends on what is involved, but to me the 2 million euro thing sounds like Dr Evil trying to ransom the world for ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: For â¬2 million, I'll do 24/7 support one person for a year.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: but you would probably be working 24/7, i bet it would be a nightmare for one person
<MooDoo> and practically impossible
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Nah, if I'm supporting one person, that person has to sleep too
<AlanBell> plus look at the number of areas it has to cover
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i don't think the french gov is one person ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: you get the contract then tender it for a support team ;) lol
<AlanBell> The request for support comprises 350 open source applications, used in may ICT areas. This list is five and a half pages long.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: No, but I'm trying to show that â¬2m can buy a LOT of support if your needs are small enough :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: tender yourself for it ;)
<BigRedS> Well, it always buys about the same amount
<BigRedS> roughly
<AlanBell> http://www.osor.eu/news/fr-government-procuring-two-million-euro-worth-of-open-source-support it really doesn't add up at all
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the Dutch government (and intelligence agency) have just approved a slightly modified version of OpenVPN for work-from-home government stuff
<ali1234> â¬2M probably doesn't buy much "enterprise" support but i suspect if you took it directly to the developers you would get a lot better value for money
<ali1234> i mean enterprise weenies wont even show up on site for less than Â£500
<daubers> ali1234: That's only if you have a support contract
 * MooDoo will clone himself a few hundred times and do it himself :)
<AlanBell> so "the community" has to fill out an 80 page response to the tender questions, then get bad rates.
<MooDoo> let's setup #ubuntu-uk-support-ltd :)
<AlanBell> um no, but if people do want to do joint ventures to bid for projects then we can support that happening somehow I expect
<ali1234> where's the list of the 350 applications?
<AlanBell> but probably not en franÃ§ais
<MooDoo> AlanBell: perhaps it's something your company could look into doing?  you tender and then get in techs to help
 * MooDoo stops thinking out loud now :0
<ali1234> their rtf crashed libreoffice
<AlanBell> MooDoo: no, we would go bust by the time we got to the end of the questionaire
<MooDoo> hehe
<AlanBell> plus we wouldn't be able to meet the financial stability requirements
<AlanBell> you must have 5 years of audited accounts . . .
<AlanBell> and we are below the audit exemption
<MooDoo> how's it working for you at the moment anyway?  got a lot of business?  </noseymodeoff>
<AlanBell> yeah, loads of business
<MooDoo> fab
<AlanBell> quite a lot of Alfresco (nasty nasty java and squillions of XML config files in random places)
<AlanBell> and a fair bit of OpenERP (nice python, but very very big application to understand)
<MooDoo> it's libertus now isn't it? not open learning center if i remember rightly
<AlanBell> and a bit of vtiger (PHP, it is OK)
<AlanBell> Libertus Solutions Ltd, yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thought you'd enjoy that article
<AlanBell> czajkowski: interesting, yes
<MooDoo> czajkowski: when he's stopped laughing he'll read the rest
<AlanBell> will be interesting to follow that and see what happens next, I would assume Canonical will bid for it
 * DJones hopes that the mailing isn't going to descend into a Sounder style troll fest/complaint thread
<czajkowski> AlanBell: article coming soon from over here
<czajkowski> multiple applications over 15 ministeries
<czajkowski> 2 million for 3 years seems a tad stingy
<AlanBell> it is on the face of it ridiculous
<bigcalm> Would it be wrong to reply at the top to the Top Posting thread on the mailing list?
<Laney> include a massive signature for good measure
<bigcalm> Do not feed the trolls
<bigcalm> I'm sure somebody else will do it :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<popey> oooh ooh
<popey> (morning)
<MooDoo> morning popey
<daubers> GAH!!!!!
<daubers> If stupid recruitment agencies are going to spam me people when I'm not hiring, they could at least spell "engineering" and "label" correctly
<daubers> And it's pointless telling me that their results for your test are amazing when YOU DON'T TELL ME WHAT THE TEST INVOLVES
<daubers> Yes, they an spell their name correctly 90% of the time
<daubers> grrrrrrrr
<oimon> is this ranting hour?
<oimon> :P
<daubers> </rant>
<DJones> Don't forget the "Dear Jones" start to the email etc
<MooDoo> damn i nearly responded to that top posting email......sigh
<daubers> If I wasn't going to bite his head off I'd reply with a "I'm sorry, your lack of the basic grasp of communcation has meant that unfortunatley we won't be picking up your option" type email
<MooDoo> i was going to reply with, "how many threads are going to be about top posting..BORING!!!"
<MooDoo> i keep thinkig i have more friends with pidgin now showing all my google+ circle contacts :)
<popey> i see nothing offensive in that thread
<ali1234> complaining about top posting is a sure sign that you are using a deficient email client
<MooDoo> don't think any one said there was, just about the umpteenth million thread about top posting lol
<AlanBell> I think you should reply at the top, then copy and paste your reply to the bottom as well
<gord> sandwich posting
<swat___> double ended posting?
<AlanBell> sandwich posting is the way forward
<MooDoo> sandwich posting?
<daubers> I think you should reply on the telephone and avoid the whole problem
<ali1234> the way forward is to stop using email clients from 1986
<MooDoo> all the thread needs is this - http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<ali1234> "mutt is the greatest mail reader ever, it works perfectly. now everyone stop top posting, using utf-8, and sending mime attachments"
<oimon> i've been an IT dude all my life and i always top-post for work emails
<oimon> the reason is that mailing lists and work email are different
 * daubers just USES THE DAMN TELEPHONE!
<BigRedS> You ... *speak* ... to the people?
<ali1234> i turned off my voicemail because people use it like email
<MooDoo> what is this *speak*
<czajkowski> here's a rant.... companies who annouce releases of products but have no images for A) their company B) their products! but still want media coverage should be throttled
 * oimon doesn't like using the phone and avoids where possible
<MooDoo> think we need something on youtube, czajkowski's hour, for ranters everywhere :D
 * oimon would like to rant about CUPS and hplip
<MooDoo> #ubuntu-uk-rants
<MooDoo> Pernig: ;)
<Pernig> i couldn't help but look :P
<MooDoo> heh
<MooDoo> will keep it open for people to rant :D
<BigRedS> Heh. Guy here is complaining that he has to wait 16 minutes to download an ISO
<AlanBell> I used to have broadband like that too :)
<bigcalm> :D
<daubers> heh
<AlanBell> at 3PM in #ubuntu-classroom there is an ask mark session
<ali1234> what's an ask mark?
<BigRedS> Hah
<BigRedS> Me, on the same network
<BigRedS> 3h33 current prediction
<daubers> AlanBell: 3PM UK time?
<AlanBell> ask Mark Shuttleworth questions
<bigcalm> Troll Mark?
<AlanBell> I think 3PM uk time
<AlanBell> questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jennie> 	i downloaded this ubuntu-11.10-alternate-i386 checked MD5 and then burned to one more cd and still it is giving RETRY error in installation
<daubers> jennie: At what point in the installation?
<jennie> at 4%
<daubers> 4% at what point? Installing the base system?
<jennie>  yes
<daubers> Do the installers still come with a facility to check the CD? It used to be on the boot menu of the CDs
<daubers> Worth checking that to make sure the CD burnt ok
<jennie> i tried 2 cds
<jennie> this is second CD
<daubers> Run the CD check on the disk. It will check that the disk has burnt correctly
<jennie> cd check on the disk ?
<jennie> where it is located
<jennie> ?
<daubers> When you boot your computer with the install CD it should be in the options it lists there.
<daubers> jennie: see this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Ubuntu_CD_Advanced_Welcome_Page_Options
<daubers> Not sure if it's on the alternate CD (would imagine so?)
<jennie> daubers,I want to install ubuntu in usb drive and i do not want dual boot , so if cd aint working then can i do this , extract the ISO to usb and then install it in same USB from USB ?
<daubers> ummm... not sure you can do that. You'd be overwriting the medium your installing from
<daubers> urgh, you're
 * daubers revokes own coffee privileges 
<daubers> jennie: Are you creating the disks from windows or from linux?
<jennie> cd disk ? i am creating from windows , power ISo
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> jennie: Where in the world are you based?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
<popey> jennie: for what it's worth I have more success burning onto DVD than CDR
<jennie> ohhk
<jennie> but please tell me can i do it from USb , i had only 2 cds with me and they are not working, and i do not want to go to market agan
<daubers> jennie: You could also request a CD from your loco team
<davmor2> jennie: you can indeed
<popey> ahh, yes, you can do it via USB
<daubers> jennie: For what you want you'd want 2 USB sticks. As you won't be able to install onto the USB stick the installer is running from
<popey> jennie: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/create-a-bootable-ubuntu-usb-flash-drive-the-easy-way/
<daubers> and I don't think there is a way to make a persistant partition in windows?
<popey> thats totally the easiest way to do it
<popey> daubers: i dont think she wants persistent
<popey> just ran out of CDRs
<daubers> popey: <jennie> daubers,I want to install ubuntu in usb drive and i do not want dual boot , so if cd aint working then can i do this , extract the ISO to usb and then install it in same USB from USB ?
<popey> "install onto" may be misinterpreted here
<daubers> It was more the "Install in same USB from USB"
<MooDoo> easiest way i've found to install linux onto a usb, in windows is http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
<daubers> MooDoo: \o/ that one will do persistant storage
<MooDoo> yup indeedy, running linux mint of my USB :)
<daubers> jennie: follow MooDoo's link. you want the make sure you set a persistant file. Then you can just boot straight into Ubuntu without a second installation process
<daubers> jennie: It will want the desktop CD rather than the alternate one to do that
<daubers> desktop iso even
<jennie> ok thx
<MooDoo> :D i have my uses, not many but a few
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/French-government-tenders-for-open-source-support-1383615.html
<AlanBell> czajkowski: where did the 2 million euro bit come from?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.lemondeinformatique.fr/actualites/lire-l-etat-lance-un-appel-d-offres-sur-la-maintenance-des-logiciels-libres-46661.html
<AlanBell> "estimÃ© est de deux millions d'euros sur trois ans" but who estimated that? a journalist?
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning me ole china, how the devil are you?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I dont know dj wrote it not me
<davmor2> MooDoo: Frustrated czajkowski won't annoy me :'(
<MooDoo> davmor2: leave the poor lass alone then :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good really busy but not currently as I'm waiting on Staging LP so I can continue :(
<MooDoo> cool
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Job at Heart Internet - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/11/job-at-heart-internet.html
<oimon> guys, if amazon sell an item and then reduce the price, can i get a refund of the difference?
<daubers> Nope
<gord> nice, european space agency wants to release more open source software. next time i need a mars rover controller i'll just apt-get install it
<czajkowski> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Kernel-Vulnerability-in-Ubuntu-11-10-Upgrade-Now-235857.shtml
<oimon> amazon used to have a price drop policy 30 days after purchase
<oimon> can't find it though
<davmor2> czajkowski: you make it sound so dramatic
<MooDoo> davmor2: OMG ubuntu is broken, i'm going to install windows....lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: Windows you say, why you think that is less broken?
<oimon> daubers: http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/amazon-price-drop-policy-get-the-difference-14113
<gord> the ONLY solution to a broken ubuntu is to choose a *slightly* different variant of linux.. yeah. that'll solve everything
<daubers> oimon: really?
<ali1234> it has a much higher chance of success than reporting bugs
<czajkowski> davmor2: clean install of 11.10 here and trackpad is disabled as default.
<MooDoo> davmor2: don't be silly it's perfect ;)
<AlanBell> a local user can read certain information causing a loss of privacy?? This does not appear to be a newsworthy bug.
<MooDoo> so basically it's a problem if someone is actually in front of your pc/laptop?
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's a feature it stops you breaking it
<MooDoo> no i've missread it lol
<AlanBell> if they have a user account on your laptop
<oimon> daubers: Please note that only orders placed on or before September 1, 2008 were eligible for a price difference refund under the Post-Order Price Guarantee policy. However, we do continue to offer our Pre-order price guarantee.:(
<davmor2> czajkowski: you don't need no stinking trackpad ;)
<AlanBell> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/6/24/88
<awilkins> It's not a very scary vuln, is it
<awilkins> I guess it's worse on a server
<MooDoo> the world is going to end
<awilkins> On the other hand, I already KNOW the password for the other user account on the server, because the user concerned can't remember it, so I have to
<awilkins> And of course, we're both sudoers, as is anyone else with login rights (because they're.. sysadmins)
<davmor2> czajkowski: on a more serious note do you find a fix for it?
<awilkins> davmor2, Isn't that the patch thread linked from lkml above?
<AlanBell> awilkins: two different problems, the trackpad and not very scary vuln
<awilkins> AH.
<awilkins> Didn't see the trackpad one
<davmor2> awilkins: I was on about her trackpad issue :)
<Twinkletoes> If I'm using rsa keys with ssh... is there any kind of padding inplemented by default, and where is it defined?
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: padding?
<oimon> did you get the mail about the latest humble indie bundle? been waiting for darwinia et al to join in the fun :)
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: I assume OpenSSH (being written by the OpenBSD people) does The Right Thing
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_%28algorithm%29#Padding_schemes
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: If that's the case, then I'm happy - which wa smy question :)
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: If you want to be really sure, you can ask on their on channel/mailing list... I think you need a crypto expert for this :)
<Twinkletoes> MartijnVdS: Ok, will do - thank you :)
<popey> oimon: humble bundle is losing some of its magic now it happens so often
<oimon> popey: i think they will run out of classics soon. but the introversion games are welcome
<oimon> the other ones lately have been halfbaked affairs
<MartijnVdS> popey: "haugty bundle"? ;)
<oimon> also nice to get crayon physics as i missed that in a previous bundle
<hoover> same here, bought it mostly for crayon physics
<awilkins> I've already got Multiwinia / Defcon, there might even be some players - it was dead the last time I looked
<awilkins> Ooh, bonus prototypes
<oimon> windows only
<awilkins> I have been known to boot Windows occasionally...
<oimon> AKA GameOS
<diplo> Any of you guys ever played with SME server ?
<awilkins> Yeah, I wish they DID do a cut down version of Windows targeted at playing games
<awilkins> Other than XBox-OS
<popey> diplo: yes, many moons ago
<BigRedS> oimon: Wintendo, surely?
<awilkins> The video of that city generator is really nice
<awilkins> You can imagine it being of great use for things like Cyberrun campaigns
<oimon> i have a problem with PES soccer 2008 on the wii...everyone has upgraded to 2011 and i can't find anyone online to play against :(
<diplo> Having issues with Transparent proxy, don't suppose you have any insight in bypassing it ?
<awilkins> oimon, Simple, stop playing soccer games
<diplo> Tried official way of doing it and failing, no irc channel to talk to someone live :/
<oimon> never have that problem with urban terror
<oimon> football games are probably the best thing you can do with a console
<awilkins> diplo, Use another proxy?
<awilkins> diplo, The way I bypass the proxy at work is by opening an SSH tunnel to my router at home and using the dynamic SOCKS proxy feature
<diplo> It's the problem with SME server awilkins its all tightly integrated, I've talked my currect employer out of using it anymore
<diplo> An not bypassing proxy in that sense
<diplo> ah*
<diplo> Bypass it as in not use it, by default it sets up a transparent proxy
<diplo> Which has issues with https://
<awilkins> This is MS SME server?
<diplo> And no easy way or removing disabling the proxy
<diplo> http://contribs.org
<diplo> Based on Centos
<awilkins> No idea I'm afraid... I've only had light involvement with Centos, never liked it much
<diplo> heh, I know CentOS fairly well, SME is a bit of a abomination of it imo, but it seems enough people like it :/
<diplo> OK, How about I approach this differently, got any IPTABLES gurus in here ?
<MooDoo> diplo: /etc/init.d/iptables stop ;)
<diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/135422
<hoover> depends
<awilkins> diplo <carrier lost>
<diplo> Want to redirect the to: from 3128 to 80 :)
<diplo> Been years since I've done any Iptables stuff
<diplo> heh MooDoo :P
<diplo> Suppose I start studying now
<Myrtti> possum yarn ihihi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Behind The Canonical Community Team - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/23/behind-the-canonical-community-team/
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I am trying to connect to an ipsec vpn using diffie hellman 2 key exchange. Is there a VPN plugin for network manager that supports this?
<AlanBell> KrisDouglas: the openswan one I think
<KrisDouglas> AlanBell, I have OpenSwan installed, I will have a go. Thanks
<bigcalm> I don't think the file manager knows about linked directories. I did 'properties' on 'file system' and it's counted 128.1 TB so far
<bigcalm> Would be nice but I only bought a 60 GB SSD
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: I think google will be your biggest friend here, there is strongswan, vpnc for network manager and openvpn too according to USC
<AlanBell> oddly if I select strongswan it crashes the add vpn dialog
<KrisDouglas> I was just about to say that AlanBell, it just crashed my VPN client
<davmor2> AlanBell: I was just looking at network manager vpn in USC no idea what does what in reality :)
<bigcalm> svn stat
<AlanBell> KrisDouglas: I have a cisco one and a pptp one set up, they work fine, I have never clicked the strongswan one before
<KrisDouglas> My OVPN works fine, this one has crashed the tool twice
<KrisDouglas> frustrating :)
<MartijnVdS> Whee, my new phone has been picked up by FedEx
<bigcalm> popey: do you ever get this? "There is a problem with the sound decoder. Spotify can't play music"
<popey> no, never
<MartijnVdS> Let's see if they can get it from some place called "Poole" to the Netherlands in <24h ;)
<bigcalm> Sod
<davmor2> bigcalm: Nope I don't either, oh wait I don't use spotify :P
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you're one of those people that buy shiny plastic discs?
<bigcalm> popey: even on Local Files?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I don't see why not
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I love shiny plastic discs. I also have a bunch of larger black plastic discs :)
<MartijnVdS> Also.. wut -- http://g.co/maps/xc95a
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No I use a real life dab radio when it dawned on me I was listening to absolute 80's more than I was my own music collection :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: aww but records ARE 80s ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeah we have a few of those too,  the small silver ones, the small black ones and the bigger black ones
<popey> bigcalm: i dont play local files
<MartijnVdS> popey: never ever?
<popey> not in spotify
<davmor2> popey: nor do I
<Azelphur> lol, ##linux is getting nick flooded atm, someone clearly needs to set a join limit on it :P
<KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, I walked that way once
<awilkins> BAck to VPN ; anyone know if it's possible to join a Cisco VPN concentrator that insists on the Windows client and on the "no local LAN access" parameter?
<awilkins> I've tried vpnc in the past but never got past the authentication stage
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: what, to Guernsey? :)
<KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, yeah, fancied a pie, that seemed like the fastest route on my phone without using buses. Turned out that it wasn't really worth it, the pie shop had closed :(
<KrisDouglas> http://imagebin.org/185317 I will be amused infinately.
<KrisDouglas> Infinitely
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: odd ball
<KrisDouglas> http://www.vidarholen.net/contents/rage/ is going to be my distraction this afternoon :)
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, I feel that is exactly what popey's expression was.
<cliftonts> hi everyone
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, hello
<MooDoo> http://www.vidarholen.net/~vidar/rage/132206438528295.html
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> very good
<KrisDouglas> MooDoo, haha
<cliftonts> ok....
<KrisDouglas> MooDoo, it's incredibly addictive
<bigcalm> lol
<MooDoo> yeah i can imagie :)
<KrisDouglas> I find myself trawling through IRC logs for arguments
<MooDoo> glad i log everything then :)
<KrisDouglas> mine clear themselves
<KrisDouglas> every week
<KrisDouglas> from time to time I find myself searching for something I was told
<cliftonts> I'm bored with installing ubuntu now, I've done 5 machines in a row. I think I need a new hobby. lol
<awilkins> Shiny, VPN works for Ubuntu now
<awilkins> I can get onto my office network
<awilkins> Now all I have to do is configure the routing...
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, use the OEM install mode :)
<KrisDouglas> saves a small amount of tim
<KrisDouglas> e
<cliftonts> I can't on this batch because I'll need to be demoing them
<cliftonts> does anyone have any recommendations on the minimum REALISTIC spec to run on?
<KrisDouglas> I find anything over a single core 1.6GHz Atom and 512M RAM is usually ok
<AlanBell> hi cliftonts
<cliftonts> I'm finding even unity 2d sluggish on 2.8ghz dual core with 512mb, software centre gives the pc a hernia and the dash has a noticable delay
<cliftonts> hi alan
<KrisDouglas> usually works ok on 1.4GHz P4's with over 512M RAM well enough too
<KrisDouglas> starts to die if you do more than one thing at once with half a gig of RAM
<cliftonts> in fact I'm installing xubuntu on a 1.4ghz P4 with 700mb ram because it was just unusable
<KrisDouglas> cliftonts, the software centre gives my 3.4GHz quad core a hernia.
 * AlanBell has several 1.6ghz atom computers that work well with unity 3d
<KrisDouglas> 512M RAM is usually a little bit on the small side
<cliftonts> very true KrisDouglas, I think it needs working on
<gord> 512 ram is what is hurting you there
<daubers> cliftonts: I'd suspect you're swapping lots and your HDD is the bottleneck
<cliftonts> I'll be selling these machines at computer fairs and via my website. I think I'll look into getting some extra ram for them
<KrisDouglas> as AlanBell said, Atom CPUs are unusually capable.
<cliftonts> unfortunately I have to work with whatever the supplier has in stock, but I will be building new machines too
<AlanBell> I have 1GB on the one on my desk
<AlanBell> the kids all have at least 1GB in their computers
<AlanBell> I have 8GB in my laptop :)
<swat___> i have a 1.6 gig, 1gb ram atom - it struggles a little with unity
<swat___> (either variant it seems)
<cliftonts> mind you, I'm using xubuntu on the live disk now and it seems pretty snappy
<AlanBell> cliftonts: have you tried the oem-config-prepare process?
<rbsfou> Unity  2d on my aao zg5 (1.6ghz n270, 1.5 gib ram, P-SSD1800 16gib) doesn't run well :( Have xubuntu on another partition on it as a result
<cliftonts> yes alan in the past, but I'll be using these machines to demo and I'd like to see them working before the day
<cliftonts> I need to find the time to put all the new kit on my site too but it takes AGES!
<rbsfou> You could always install using oem-config-prepare, add your packages, set up your /etc/skel, then boot sysresccd and take a tarball....then add the normal user account....when you want to sell, redeploy from the tarball from something like sysresccd, and run oem-config-prepare from a chroot
<AlanBell> if you do the oem install you boot into it as the oem user and you can use it like that for as long as you like, install stuff, install binary drivers etc, then oem-config-prepare to nuke the oem user and get it ready for the first owner
<AlanBell> and you can repeat the process
<cliftonts> I don't think my turnaround will be great enough to warrant re-inventing the wheel
<cliftonts> very true Alan, that's an option. I
<cliftonts> I'll do that from now on I think
<cliftonts> Are you the guy from Bracknell by the way?
<AlanBell> you can demo them as the oem user
<AlanBell> no that is alan cocks
<cliftonts> aah, I bumped into him at the fair there when I was scouting it out
<cliftonts> weirdly I'd been chatting to him on the mailing list the previous day without a clue where he was
<AlanBell> he is candtalan or something like that on IRC normally
<rbsfou> Personally i hardly ever install on hardware....usually in vmware, then remove logs and custom udev rules then take a tar and stick it back on the machine and reinstall grub
<cliftonts> that's the one yes
<cliftonts> rbsfou solutions like that always sound overly complicated for something that just requires sticking the CD in the drive
<rbsfou> If you are doing lots of machines it's easier than going through the install each time
<rbsfou> (As well as the updates and config crap)
<cliftonts> I can't imagine I'll be doing tons of them
<rbsfou> fair enough
<cliftonts> if it gets too much I'll look into other options
<cliftonts> but of course I can do other things while it installs right now
<cliftonts> I really can't figure out why there aren't more linux retailers around
<rbsfou> vicious circle - not many 3rd party vendors support it / make software for it....so no incentive to sell it.....Same reason why we aren't all driving electric cars (the issue with that being charging stations)
<cliftonts> I don't know, I've been using ubuntu since 2006 and it's worlds away from where it wa
<cliftonts> was
<cliftonts> I think we're reaching a tipping point on that issue
<rbsfou> Peripherals are usually a problem too....fine if someone is coming to you for everything, but if they are a windows 'power user' used to buying stuff from PC world it can get messy and they lose patience
<cliftonts> I think what I will start doing is installing from USB, this drive is so bloody noisy!
<cliftonts> true but I don't think that's any reason to give up
<rbsfou> For that reason, i usually supply e.g. hp inkjets because of hplip....other printers are supported true, but i've not found any others with support for cleaning / head alignment etc
<rbsfou> oh of course not :)
<cliftonts> I'm hoping to bridge that gap, get people looking at computing from a different angle
<cliftonts> but even on that one I remember banging my head against the screen trying to get my touchscreen, sound, wireless to work
<cliftonts> now it just works, no more 'insert driver disc for USB device' 'But I've got 35 USB devices, which one?' moments, thanks miscrosoft!
<rbsfou> Me too....I want to set up company selling cheap 'utility' pcs, sold as being web terminals and a bit of word processing....have a few users already, but nowhere near as many as i would like....hate supporting windows all the time, even seeing the odd osx would be a nice change
<cliftonts> where are you based?
<rbsfou> Or being asked to reinstall the driver because you dared to move the device to another port ;)
<rbsfou> essex
<rbsfou> u?
<cliftonts> I'm in bucks, sound like an opportunity to you?
<rbsfou> hmm lots of money round there for people to throw away on apple and m$ i bet though :(
<rbsfou> my part of essex is a bit shitty so i'm hoping it works out for me round my way
<cliftonts> perhaps but both drive me nuts! I like having 2 mouse buttons and I value my sanity
<cliftonts> I'm counting on people appreciating the fact ubuntu works with you, not againt
<funkyHat> The "hurr apple only has one mouse button" thing is pretty out of date now ;)
<rbsfou> yeah all have touchpads....and for the few that have mice it's mightmouse or that awful flat thing
<cliftonts> I'm aware of the fact I'll need to support the machines I sell and it'll be over a very wide range, so a few contacts scattered about would be nice
<cliftonts> funkyHat, I never got along with osx, no idea why, but it's just not for me
<rbsfou> Yeah that is an issue having different hardware....it's worth keeping a log of who ends up with what....in a better world you could keep one example of everything, so if new distro version b0rks older modules (or stuff like xorg drivers get dropped) you can be prepared
<rbsfou> Liking the fact 12.04 will have 5yr cycle though :)
<cliftonts> I think I can cope
<cliftonts> so if you're going into business fancy keeping in touch?
<DJones> From memory, there's a few people using giffgaff sims in their mobiles, if you're one of them, this might be interesting http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/23/giffgaff_outage/
<cliftonts> I am Djones
<funkyHat> I have a giffgaff sim in one phone but I don't really use that one so I wouldn't have noticed if it affected me
<rbsfou> Well personally for me it'd be quite a wide range of exotic stuff so i'd need to really.....important to pick hardware carefully, eg. for older machines with no onboard video i'd have to say radeons because the nvidia binary blob being a bit of a worry
<rbsfou> cliftonts : Yeah sure
<cliftonts> check out where I am so far, it's still very unfinished but I think you can see where I'm headed
<cliftonts> www.cliftonts.co.uk
<cliftonts> and my address is sales@cliftonts.co.uk
<rbsfou> ooh shiny....i don't have anything like that yet
<cliftonts> lol
<cliftonts> it's only zen cart
<cliftonts> I went down that route because the evil banks won't let me have a credit card machine until I'm rich enough to not need to work! So I'll use the site over a mobile connection instead
<AlanBell> cliftonts: you should probably drop a note to the trademarks people at canonical to tell them what great advocacy you are doing etc
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<rbsfou> Well looks nice anyhoo.....i can't see anyone paying that much for a pc though....for me it's going to be refurbs all the way at minimal cost. maybe set up as a charity / cic
<cliftonts> Already been there and done that, you know what they really don't like talking to people at all
<AlanBell> great, yeah, they don't really respond much
<cliftonts> my prices are matched to the computer fairs I'll be selling at so we'll see. I'd like to get the cost of aquiring the machines down though.
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: cliftonts: USC is slow but that's due to the fact that last release was all about the new look and feature set this release they will be concentrating on improving the issues they know about, start up and db access speed are 2 of the key elements that will be improved
<rbsfou> Yeah. My barriers are that i don't drive, and i think i would need a 'waste processing license' plus some sort of certification about data wiping and stuff
<cliftonts> I am aware of the work being done on USC
<funkyHat> Heh, yeah it takes about a minute to start up on my poor EeePC 900
<davmor2> cliftonts: USC == Ubuntu Software Center
<cliftonts> I need to look into the waste processing license but I'm purchasing my machines at the moment so that's not an issue
<cliftonts> dvmore, I do know what USC is, thank you
<rbsfou> Thankfully thanks to smartphones people are now quite willing to see the advantages of software being installed and updated 'in one place'
<rbsfou> cliftonts : well i wasn't sure till he mentioned it tbh
<cliftonts> I think I'll get back in touch with canonical again after reading those terms. Trouble is they don't seem to be terribly enthusiastic about their own product
<rbsfou> They really need to get active with oems the way MS did, like allowing them to brand the bootssplash wallpaper etc. I know this sort of thing is a bit crappy, but it worked for ms
<cliftonts> what they need is to respond to people like me and give us the impression that they are keen for us to further their brand
<AlanBell> they won't be
<cliftonts> I asked a load of questions about all the grey areas that worried me. i.e. how much can I charge for a CD. I only heard back about a couple of them.
<rbsfou> yeah.....they do seem to be dangerously close to losing community support in some ways
<rbsfou> It's gpl, so a 'reasonable cost of the media and fee for duplication'
<AlanBell> don't worry about that, canonical won't be interested in you at all, well below their radar
<rbsfou> (or words like that)
<cliftonts> I think this whole unity storm will blow over, it happened with kde 4 and people will get used to this but nobody is pushing to get wider adoption
<AlanBell> all you need from trademarks is some kind of acknowledgement that they don't care
<rbsfou> I reckon a fiver is ok
<rbsfou> Unity == A less retarded way of using Gnome 3
<cliftonts> rbsfou, I've ordered the CDs so they look nice n shiny and I'll charge Â£1.50 to cover cost of CD and postage
<cliftonts> I'm getting along ok with unity actually, although switching between several instances of one app pisses me off
<rbsfou> KDE3 and 4 do look sort of similar though....not enough to warrant the outrage i think, the Gnome 2 > 3 transition was far more radical (not that i used kde, i try every six months or so, but can't get on with it)
<bigcalm> xubuntu \o/
<cliftonts> I can't get along with kde 4, I just stick with gnome
<cliftonts> unity will be fine as long as we're not seeing the finished product, it needs more features
<rbsfou> bigcalm : yeah agreed....not for noobs though....Sort of thinking unity on one end, a lubuntu on the other (though that does have usuability issues, but is only real option for P3 or early P4 spec)
<cliftonts> is lubuntu lighter than xubuntu then?
<cliftonts> I tried it but couldn't get the damn thing to even boot!
<rbsfou> oh hell yes.....on my aao it boots in 5 seconds :)
<cliftonts> hmm, worth another look...
<rbsfou> well ok 5 till x fires up, say 10 to a 'full' desktop
<cliftonts> oh yes, this xubuntu install will do nicely, perfect for this machine
<rbsfou> you should really use vmware or similar to try stuff out, much easier than hardware.....though agreed you don't see how well it performs / driver support until you do
<cliftonts> one question though
<cliftonts> why is it that you choose download updates during the install yet once installed the first thing it does it tell you there are 242 updates to do?
<popey> thats updates to the installer
<popey> not updates to ubuntu itself
<popey> to fix any problems that the installer might have
<cliftonts> aah, that makes more sense!
<rbsfou> I think it might get the packages though as it was rather quick when being asked....i'd have to check /var/cache/apt/archives to be sure after first boot
<funkyHat> [~rbsfou] It's gpl, so a 'reasonable cost of the media and fee for duplication'
<funkyHat> rbsfou: the GPL has no restrictions that sound anything like that
<cliftonts> however funky, I have always understood that to be the case
<Laney> he is probably talking about providing the source
<Laney> and I doubt the whole of the CD is GPL :-)
<rbsfou> funkyHat : oh....not sure where i read that....might have been back in the days of slackware and walnutcreek
<funkyHat> cliftonts: you could charge Â£100 for a CD if you wanted to
<funkyHat> Yes, the thing about reasonable cost is to do with distribution of source
<cliftonts> well I don't think anyone would buy a CD you can get of the ubuntu website for under Â£5 unless you matched the price
<Laney> that's beside the point, you are free to charge whatever you like for it
<rbsfou> Laney : I think it actually is.....there are some firmware blobs but i think they are in the repos, and stuff like ubuntu-restricted-extras (e.g. the ms ttf fonts) definitely aren't gpl
<cliftonts> true
<funkyHat> rbsfou: there are other free software licenses â¢)
<funkyHat> Some software on the ubuntu CD is undoubtedly BSD licensed, there are probably others too
<rbsfou> funkyHat : good point. Apache's http server, obviously
<funkyHat> I don't think that's on the desktop CD but yes, httpd is Apache License
<rbsfou> To be honest i think nowadays the linux cd thing is a dead loss. There are a few windows 'power users' who might use it, but unforunately i think these are the sort of individuals who will 'blame linux' when something doesn't 'just work'. Us geeks just grab isos and use usb sticks or vms nowadays
<AlanBell> it is nice to give someone a CD along with it pre-installed on a computer as a "recovery CD"
<cliftonts> I'll be offering to install it for them as well, rather than just dumping them in at the deep end!
<rbsfou> Also, the new version every 6 months / only updates for 2 years thing is offputting, i don't want to 'waste' a cd on that
<rbsfou> I might burn off an LTS for my own use though
<cliftonts> I'm sure the best option for oem installs will always be the lts
<funkyHat> CDs cost what... 7 or 8 pence
<AlanBell> rbsfou: you can have a load of free LoCo CDs from me if you are distributing them
<cliftonts> I was offered a load at postage cost, unfortunately just after I forked out Â£20 for some! lol
<rbsfou> AlanBell : This is something i would like to do, but i think it would use a script in sysrescd to unpack a tarball and reinstall grub.....that way you are preserving your oem customizations (like skel, package choice)......and most people just want to hit 'Yes' to 'make it work again'
<AlanBell> I will be dropping some round to Alan Cocks at some point soon
<rbsfou> Alan Bell : Cox? Is this some sort of twisted variant of the 'no more aol cd's' antic?
<cliftonts> what?
<AlanBell> Alan Cox is a kernel developer from Wales, Alan Cocks is from Bracknell and does the computer fairs
<cliftonts> aah ok
<AlanBell> Alan Bell is me, Alan Lord is TheOpenSourcerer, Alan Pope is popey
<awilkins> rbsfou, The other thing is, that bootable CDs might become totally unworkable or at least more difficult on a Windows 8 badged machine because of Secure Boot
<rbsfou> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL#Direct_marketing_of_disks (original site is now squatted)
<davmor2> too many alans
<cliftonts> it'll be interesting working along side him, they'll think we're starting to take over!
<AlanBell> resistance is futile you will be assimilated
<popey> E-NOTENOUGHALANS
<MooDoo> to many davmor2's ;)
<rbsfou> AlanBell : Ahh that makes more sense.....i had heard of Cox obviously but not you or the others
 * AlanBell is shocked
<MooDoo> not heard of the alans?  cough splutter
<MooDoo> gobsmacked!
<MooDoo> ;)
<rbsfou> AlanBell : First time on IRC
<AlanBell> do you not know who I am !?!?!
<awilkins> Does Wubi make bootable USB thumbs yet?
<AlanBell> :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer popey = LEGENDS nuff said
<MooDoo> heehee
<davmor2> AlanBell: infamy infamy they've all got it in for me
<rbsfou> MooDoo : ahh ok... people with commit access and stuff i guess
<MooDoo> rbsfou: commit access to what?
 * MooDoo has perhaps missed a lot of the conversation :D
<MooDoo> rbsfou: they are just well know in the ubuntu community :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Are you saying the alans are feet or hips saying they are leg ends?
<rbsfou> MooDoo : dunno, websites? debian source repos? oic.......been using linux since 1999 and i'm ashamed to say this is my first time on IRC. Filed a few bugs here and there but the process to do that is confusing. Got loads of ideas on suggestions to be made, e.g. to the LXDE team, but as i'm a n00b no idea on how to do that
<popey> Welcome
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanPope
<davmor2> awilkins: Wubi has a size limit put on it by default so that is why you can't do a usb stick as the all the file does is turn the media into an iso and then runs the standard install
<popey> ooo that needs updating
<davmor2> s/as the all/ as all
<rbsfou> Do any of you guys do Fosdem or anything? My partner is involved in the postgres community, and he's going next year and said i should come with
<MooDoo> why can't i find TheOpenSourcerer ubuntu wiki page :(
<cliftonts> right, it's been nice chatting but I have to go
<MooDoo> later cliftonts
<cliftonts> I have a date with a new bathroom suite...bizzarely
<rbsfou> ok cliftonts, nice chatting to another potential oem :)
<MooDoo> rbsfou: we do this :) = http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
<rbsfou> if canonical recognized us that is
<davmor2> awilkins: does that help at all?
<MooDoo> rbsfou: are you aware of this site ? http://ubuntu-uk.org/
<cliftonts> rbsfou get in touch and let's see if we can support each other
<cliftonts> night everyone
<rbsfou> MooDoo : Yeah listened to the podcast a couple times and left a message on the voip voicemail about getting rid of old kernels once
<MooDoo> cool :D
<rbsfou> MooDoo : yeah i should get involved more and stuff, pretty sure i'm good for some stuff, though i'm not programmer
<MooDoo> rbsfou: neither am i, so that's nothing to worry about, just hang out and chat :) i'm sure there is aother stuff you can get involved in if you wish
<MooDoo> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved
<MooDoo> take a look at that :D
<awilkins> davmor2, Naah, I meant, if Wubi will install a captive install in a loop file in a Windows file system, will it also produce a USB thumb you could boot - kind of a 1-stop-shop for transition to Ubuntu from Windows
<MooDoo> brb all
<awilkins> I suppose you could boot the Wubi install of Ubuntu, then use that to write a USB key, then install it... again
<davmor2> awilkins: Why would you not just use the usb key to do that with captive enabled?
<awilkins> Maybe I should actually use Wubi before speculating about it. Just wondered if it did a sort of "Would you like to a) install UBuntu inside Windows b) Trash Windows and install Ubuntu in it's place c) Make a bootable USB stick
<davmor2> awilkins: so there is work in place to make it install into a real partition but it hasn't been worked on actively for a while and there is no need to produce a USB stick fullstop
<funkyHat> I've never been keen on Wubi
<funkyHat> I think it's quite clever, but not very sensible
<davmor2> funkyHat: why so?
<funkyHat> davmor2: well it's more prone to problems than a regular install, because the filesystem is stored in a loop file on a windows FS
<funkyHat> And I don't think it's made clear that installing using wubi is any different to a normal install, which could lead to confusion (though I haven't looked at the wubi installer for ages so maybe that's changed)
<davmor2> funkyHat: Well we have less issues as it goes on. THe biggest issue was grub which is now resolved, as for the warning there is a perfectly good explanation in the menu before wubi is started I think you'll find :)
<funkyHat> A way to convert a wubi install to a regular separate partition install would be fancy
<davmor2> funkyHat: it's in place now but it is a bunch of shell scripts that they needed to convert over into something pretty
<rbsfou> I think it might solve some problems if every now and then ubuntu was somehow able to set the ntfs dirty bit, so a boot into windows would inititate an ntfs check.....for it's own benefit!
<funkyHat> Well parted at least can see the dirty bit (and will refuse to resize a dirty NTFS partition), so that's probably possible
<funkyHat> It would be nice if the error message from the ubuntu installer was a bit more helpful when that happened actually â¢D
<funkyHat> (unless that's changed very recently)
<rbsfou> I wish ntfsprogs (iirc) was able to do a thorough ntfsck, sadly seems only windows chkdsk is 'good enough'
<rbsfou> Not sure if the binary is actually called ntfsck, but last time i tried it it DID set the dirty bit, so maybe the installer should do that and prompt the user to boot windows to do the check
<rbsfou> That's the sort of thing i would end up putting on brainstorm....and would get voted up...and nothing would happen :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I don't have one I think... I have this though: https://launchpad.net/~theopensourcerer. And this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/about. And this: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/alanlord - How many more do you need? ;-)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Google Tashout - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/23/google-tashout/
<bigcalm> A video I've just loaded on youtube has 301 views with 629 likes - how does that work?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it stops counting at 301
<bigcalm> :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: because then it's a "busy" video and they update it less often (not live)
<MartijnVdS> Hmm
<MartijnVdS> What does the "Sort" printer dialog option do?
<MartijnVdS> It changes the page icons next to it, but it's not clear to me what it means
<MartijnVdS> it might be "collate"
<MartijnVdS> but if that's true, the translation is poo :)
<awilkins> Sounds like Collate
<awilkins> It's Collate in the en-GB translation at least
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Dutch translation is poo then :)
<awilkins> Sjort?
<MartijnVdS> no, "Sorteren"
<awilkins> (my dutch is poo too)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "Sjort" would be "pulls" ("he pulls") ;)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes also in THAT sense
<MartijnVdS> (well not really, only if he doesn't pull...)
<MartijnVdS> *ahem* family-friendly channel )
<MartijnVdS> :)
<awilkins> Sufficiently oblique, I think you'd get away with that :)
<MartijnVdS> Good >:)
<MartijnVdS> ooh my Galaxy Nexus is in Feltham now
<awilkins> Hmm. I rather like my wife's Android phone but I'd feel disloyal to my N900
<awilkins> Although the prospect of being able to actually develop for it is nice - my Java is much stronger than my C languages
<MartijnVdS> My lack of experience with C is mostly because of its lack of garbage collection :)
<MartijnVdS> and the headaches that gave me
<MartijnVdS> <- Perl, Python coder
<awilkins> I tried C when I was a teenager but those were the days of no internet.
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<MartijnVdS> I had my book.. and my headaches
<awilkins> Getting a compiler meant I had to catch a bus, walk 2 miles into an industrial estate, and pick up a stack of floppies from a Public Domain software distributor.
<awilkins> I never got the API reference manuals for the Amiga OS, so I could never do any of the cool stuff I wanted to ; lead to a lack of motivation.
<MartijnVdS> I remember reading a "How to program your AdLib" document
<MartijnVdS> and not understanding it
<MartijnVdS> and then re-reading it a few years ago, thinking "Was I _that_ dense?"
<awilkins> So... BASIC (ZX81, BBC Micro, Spectrum) , a very small amount of 6502 and Z80 machine code, then a gap of 5 years at university, then VB3, VB6, Javascript, C#, Java, Python
<MartijnVdS> also, the guy who wrote it wrote the Linux drivers for the early Creative sound blasters :)
<awilkins> Currently Java is my bread and butter, I dabbled in Python when I was hacking around with bzr for an internal project.
<awilkins> And hopefully my days of being a VB6 guru are reserved for my juicy retirement (it's the COBOL of the future, don'tcha know...)
<awilkins> I like C# as a language, it's nice to do little GUI tools in, unlike Java.
<awilkins> I'm afraid Perl gives me a headache...
<awilkins> But I don't see a lot of it
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> There's good perl and bad perl
<MartijnVdS> The "Declare 500 variables all in upper case, don't use strict mode"-Perl of the 90s is LONG behind most people :)
<czajkowski> dear software center you really are out to drive me crazy http://twitpic.com/7ii4cb/full
<czajkowski> davmor2: can I stab you
<awilkins> Heh, when you see Perl scripts that are a clock (yes, the clock was literally made of the perl script, which self-edited to show the time... a proper grandfather long case clock with hands...)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: actually, the guy who wrote the AdLib docs I had later wrote _OSS_
<awilkins> Anyone know who's doing the hiring for this Ubuntu One on Windows client job?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, That's some serious audio chops...
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, this was the early 90s :)
<MartijnVdS> oh wow, this also still exists: http://www.phatcode.net/downloads.php?id=170
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, I'm still in some QuickBASIC FAQ that got transferred from FidoNET to Usenet :)
<penguin42> anyone any good with understanding really odd martian packet messages?
<awilkins> Sorry, I'm only good with venusian packets
<penguin42> damn, I've only got martians
<penguin42> martian source 91.189.89.144 from 192.168.122.77, on dev eth2  on my NAT box, that 91.x.x.x is a canonical com address, and the .77 is a VM running PP - and I think I get it when the PP vm closes down
<penguin42> actually, that's an even odder thought - why is the 122.77 packet even getting to the NAT box...
<MartijnVdS> what's PP?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Precise
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: "how is it getting there" = why the kernel calls it "martian"
<MartijnVdS> it should not be there
<MartijnVdS> What are you using to virtualize?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh indeed, I'm just trying to figure out how it got there
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: So that message is on my NAT box, on a machine on the inside of that running Oneiric I have KVM running the Precise guest
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: check out the martians using tcpdump/wireshark
<MartijnVdS> check the mac addresses
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The internal IP range is 192.168.66.x, the 192.168.122.x is the KVM local nat range
<MartijnVdS> so the Oneiric box is leaking?
<davmor2> czajkowski: feel free but only if I can tie your hair in pony tails and nail gun them to the ceiling
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: The MACs are the mac of the NAT box and the Oneiric host; yeh I think it's the Oneiric host leaking; I have a theory
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think it might be that there is an open connection between the VM and that Canonical box (update check? Ubuntu 1??) while it is shutdown, then when it disappears any packets that come back in from outside end up going through the NAT box and to the Oneiric box, the Oneiric box doesn't have a route for them any more since the VM is dead, so it routes them to the default route which is back to the NAT box ???
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't happen
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> you might want to tell iptables to not do this.. or some option in /proc/sys/net :)
<penguin42> (Does anyone know what mistletoe.canonical.com serves?)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah well which bit of it - I've not figured out if this is new with PP VM guests or has happened longer, this is the 1st time I noticed it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you say it forwards too many packets
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you can check by analyzing the martians using tcpdump/wireshark
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, I'm not sure it does forward too many
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: If there is an open connection and the host disappears I'm not sure what it's actually supposed to do
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no but ip_forward is on, I guess
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and it NATs packets for the VMs
<MartijnVdS> (or maybe not, it might just route them)
<penguin42> it's supposed to NAT them I think
<MartijnVdS> I don't know what mistletoe.canonical is -- I'd ask one of their admins :)
<MartijnVdS> or blame popey
<popey> hah
<popey> i have no idea what mistletoe.canonical.com is, but i guess its something ubuntu one related?
<bigcalm> Ellipsis?
<penguin42> ... ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: nah, thats "kwaimuk.canonical.com" (according to lsof)
<penguin42> ah, it's done mulberry this time
<awilkins> They sound dangerously ... Christmassy
<jutnux> Christmas :D
<penguin42> awilkins: Have you noticed how few christmas penguins there are this year in shops?
<MartijnVdS> Maybe oneiric has some kind of Christmas easter egg?
<MartijnVdS> and it's pre-downloading the necessities
<awilkins> TBH, I've never noticed any christmas penguins in any shop
 * penguin42 doubts you can get any easter eggs at christmas
<jutnux> The only shop I go to is the corner shop
<penguin42> awilkins: Well keep your eyes open!
<jutnux> Get the rest of my things off of the web
<awilkins> http://mistletoe.canonical.com/ just serves up three periods
<jutnux> awilkins: Something is clearly coming ;) Perhaps a rick roll?
<MartijnVdS> by the community team?
 * penguin42 can see from a capture on the VM host that there are a set of FIN, ACK from the VM to mulberry this time during shutdown with a bunch of data, none of which means much
<awilkins> mistletoe is running lucid, apart from that I have no idea.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and on the host that detects martians?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not done the capture on there yet, it's a bit trickier
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: tcpdump -w some_file
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: then copyie the file over and open it in wireshark :)
<MartijnVdS> copy*
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> will the kernel let the martian get as far as tcpdump?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> it also captures packets that will be dropped later by iptables
<penguin42> hmm it may take a few minutes - apt-get update on a P90 is not screamingly fast
<Linuxsapien> does anyone know where the keyboard preferences are stored?
<jutnux> Zomg
<jutnux> Nerdgasm.
<jutnux> Desura is out on Linux <33333333333
<MartijnVdS> who?
<awilkins> Steam-alike
<jutnux> Indie game steam thing
<MartijnVdS> ah, Ubuntu Software Centre-alike?
<jutnux> Kind of
<jutnux> Will take screenie
<jutnux> http://r.jutnux.co.uk/u1JTex
<MartijnVdS> I think I installed it on WIndows. It wanted me to make an account.
<MartijnVdS> So I removed it
<jutnux> Don't like making accounts then?
<MartijnVdS> I have too many already
<MartijnVdS> I like to keep the number down
<jutnux> Same
<jutnux> So many emails
<jutnux> I think I have like 17 email accounts
<MartijnVdS> I have two. One for work, one for home.
<penguin42> hmm I think I have 2 at work, 1 gmail address for home (unused mostly) and a domain for home
<MartijnVdS> I use my domain for home mail, hosted at Google
<jacobw> hosted at google?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: google.com/a
<jacobw> cool :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I don't actually see the martian in my tcpdump; I'll look again another time
<jacobw> does anyone know of way to force android's music player to refresh its library?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: in the settings -> applications bit, clear data
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: after killing it and its services
<bigcalm> mgdm: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: thank you :)
<jutnux> http://www.howtogeek.com/geekers/up/sshot4ecba27220325.jpg
<ori> hi
<bigcalm> New UUPC?  To the intertubes!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E20  Run to the Hills - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/11/23/s04e20-run-to-the-hills/
<ubuntubhoy> can anyone tell me how to connect to a wireless network from recovery command prompt with networking ?
<Azelphur> Seeker`: you about? :p
<Seeker`> Azelphur: yus
<Azelphur> Seeker`: care to replicate a graphics bug in wow and take a screenshot so I can add it to my list of screenshots to try and make blizzard believe it's not addon related? :P
<Seeker`> errr, not at my desktop atm. What is the bug?
<Seeker`> and to prove it isn't addon realted, disable all of your addons
<Azelphur> move your viewport, go to uldum or throne of the tides, receive trippy graphics
<Azelphur> yea, people have done that but then they just talk about graphics drivers and other things
<Seeker`> 'move your viewport'?
<Azelphur> you know the addon packs you can get that move the visible game area and leave an empty area to place buttons, chat box, etc
<Seeker`> ah, that'll be an adddon bug then :P
<Seeker`> Its an addon that does that, not an 'official' WoW feature
<Azelphur> Seeker`: not really, if you remove all addons and just call the single WoW api function for moving the viewport with /script, it still happens
<Azelphur> so it's a WoW api function that's broken, addon authors can do nothing to fix it
<Seeker`> what is the script?
<Azelphur>  /script WorldFrame:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT", 0,200);
<jacobw> ubuntubhoy: yes
<Seeker`> hmm, playing with WorldFrame and UIParent tends to do weird things
<ubuntubhoy> any chance of sharing :D
<Seeker`> especially to other addons
<Azelphur> Seeker`: basically after moving the frame, certain elements in specific maps render relative to the WoW window size and not the WorldFrame size
<jacobw> ubuntubhoy: sudo ifconfig wlan0 up; sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid your_essid; wpa_passphrase your_essid your_key > foo; sudo wpa_supplicant -Dwext -i wlan0 -c $PWD/foo &; sleep 30; sudo dhclient
<Seeker`> Azelphur: yeah, thats what i'd expect
<Azelphur> Seeker`: worked fine when I used to do it back in vanilla, from forum posts I've read it's a 4.0.1 regression
<jacobw> ubuntubhoy: assuming your wireless device is wlan0 and your network uses wpa2psk
<jacobw> ubuntubhoy: and dhcp
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> cheers mate
<ubuntubhoy> my precise install has went tits up, and this netbook has no ethernet porrt
<ubuntubhoy> -r
<jacobw> no ethernet? odd.
<ubuntubhoy> Dell Duo
<ubuntubhoy> only got 3 USB, and a headphone socket
<jacobw> i see
<ubuntubhoy> its nice enough, just not really cut out for dev builds
<jacobw> i like netbooks, though i'm glad mine has a ethernet port
<jacobw> i'd really like a netbook with a thinkpad style 'trackpoint'
<jacobw> or 'isometric joystick' according to wikipedia :s
<ubuntubhoy> never used one, first netbook was an Aspire One.
<ubuntubhoy> served me well till last month, now my youngest has it
<ubuntubhoy> was a great little machine
<ubuntubhoy> the idea of getting the Duo was for the touchscreen
<jacobw> i'm not convinced that touchscreen are useful
<jacobw> its hard to develop muscle memory for virtual keyboards
<ubuntubhoy> its handy for sitting on the couch with the screen flipped
<ubuntubhoy> browsing, checking on social networks etc
<ubuntubhoy> even for viewing movies and stuff
<jacobw> i imagine its great for anything that doesn't involve typing or window management
<ubuntubhoy> window management aint so bad with shell
<ubuntubhoy> or E Tablet mode
<ubuntubhoy> even Unity kind of suits a touchscreen
<jacobw> i think gnome-shell would be ideal on a tablet
<jacobw> ha, well its supposed to :p
<ubuntubhoy> yeah thats my WM of choice
<ubuntubhoy> but I also use Bodhi for E
<ubuntubhoy> thats quite nice
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i'm glad you've brought bohdi to my attention, it looks ideal for my dad's netbook
<jacobw> is your wireless working now?
<ubuntubhoy> not tried yet, its this machine
<ubuntubhoy> will re-boot in a mo
<jacobw> ah ok
<jacobw> if your comfortable using screen, its quite useful to run wpa_supplicant in a screen to detach and leave its working or reattach it if isn't working
<jacobw> anyway
 * jacobw â bed
<ubuntubhoy> cya, and thanx again
<szymon_g> hi
<szymon_g> which additional package i have to install to make unity's search capability usefull? it doesn't search files located in my $HOME
<szymon_g> ubuntu 11.10
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-24
<John___> Can anyone help me with a sound issue? I have been working at this for the past two days with no luck.  PM me if you have some free time to help :)
<Azelphur> !ask | John___
<lubotu3`> John___: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<John___> ok thank you
<John___> Problem with 3.5mm headset not playing sound
<penguin42> but it works out of other sockets/speakers?
<John___> yes
<awilkins> John___, I'm going to bed, but I suggest you go here : http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
<penguin42> so it's either it's muted (an easy problem), or there is some automagic switch involved with when headphones are plugged in or Linux's idea of which socket is an input/output is wrong
<John___> ok thanks awilkins :) night
<awilkins> penguin42, John___ ; I had a problem like that - the most useful tools were the HDA-analyzer util and the thing that draws a graph of your audio codec... gnight
<John___> Switched over to ubuntu from windows 2days ago and since than i have had no sound
<penguin42> awilkins: Cool - not seen that!
<awilkins> HDA analyzer is possibly only good for HDA based sound hardware though..
<awilkins> But it's very common
<John___> how do you run as a root user, ( trying to do python run.py )
<penguin42> John___: sudo python run.py    would run it as root
<penguin42> John___: Be careful of course, root is all powerful
<John___> Just want my sound to work :,( would give my right leg for it
<John___> have a large list of node's now
<celesteh> Hello, I am running oneiric on a lenovo with gnome 3 and my touchpad is not working. it's fine on the login screen and works for a little while after i start gnome, but something in gnome kills it. This seems to correspond to when the tray thing at the bottom loads. How can I find out what the problem is?
<John___> YAY SOUND!!!!!!!!!
<John___> had a whole list of nodes muted
<penguin42> ah good, the simple problem :-)
<John___> yes :) thanks
<John___> ohh one more thing ( kinda stupid ) I put steam / skyrim from windows on a P:HD, How can i convert them with wine so i dont have to re-install steam and skyrim again ( dont want to loose my saves for the game)
<penguin42> the temperature variations are quite bizarre; last night it was about 2c at this time - it's 11c tonight
<ubuntubhoy> be thankful then
<ubuntubhoy> feckin hate the cold
<penguin42> nod
<ubuntubhoy> not so good for a dude called penguin
<penguin42> ubuntubhoy: and that's why us penguins like a nice warm jumper and a scarf
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<penguin42> damn, I've just spent Â£250
<Azelphur> what on?
<penguin42> a pc for my mum
<penguin42> which I'll have to file under 'I know there is more pain to come'
<Azelphur> lol
 * MartijnVdS submits his first patch of the day to the review system @ work
<MartijnVdS> oooh...
<MartijnVdS> On FedEx vehicle for delivery
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - Next iPad may have a 2048x1536 res display. In 10" arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/11/ipad-3-super-high-res-displays-a-go-but-yields-will-be-low.ars
<MartijnVdS> scary
<MartijnVdS> also, would that be useful, films being 1920x1080ish
<TheOpenSourcerer> It will need to ship with a magnifying glass :-)
<AlanBell> nice, I was expecting that, retina display for ipad
<TheOpenSourcerer> Another interesting display news item http://www.mirasoldisplays.com/blog/2011/11/butterfly-has-landed-qmt-announces-world%E2%80%99s-first-e-reader-use-mirasol%C2%AE-display
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mirasol - first e-reader to feature color and interactive   content, outdoor visibility and battery life measured in weeks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right school run time. Wifey in bed sick. Laterz.
<AlanBell> o/
<DJones> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<freakyclown> morning guys - bootedup the lappy this morning to find the black bar a tthe top on gnome classic is now 4 times larger than normal
<freakyclown> any quick fix for this?
<freakyclown> solved..somereason ubuntu gave me three extra panels removed with win+alt+rgtclick
<daubers> Morning
 * mattt blames canada
<czajkowski> freakyclown: ello *hugs*
<danfish> morning
<danfish> mattt: eh?
<AlanBell> oh very good
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eh ?
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh#Canada
 * mattt sees what danfish did there
<AlanBell> but don't you think it needs a sentence in front of it, eh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Eh? Canadians also have a most peculiar way of pronouncing out (as in roundabout) replace out with something resembling "oot" but not quite. Eh?
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: IMO the easiest way to tell a Canuck from a Yank is to get them to say 'house'
<TheOpenSourcerer> hoose!
<danfish> exactamundo!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bet they get confused between mouse and moose ;-)
<danfish> there's a mouse loose about this house :)
<ubuntubhoy> Scots with Yankee accents ?
<oimon> any thunderbird user experiencing massive lag when typing emails since upgrading past v3-> v7?
<oimon> it's unusable :(
<mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: "oout" and "aboot"
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Sometimes TB seems to stall for me (but infrequently and only for a few seconds). But I also seem to get these stalls on other apps too so not sure if it's just TB. Am on 3.1.15 currently.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: time for an ssd
<TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect it is Gloda doing it's indexing malarkey.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: basically it dies and becomes useless each night
<oimon> was fine on v3.x
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh. No I don't get that sort of issue. FWIW, I lurk on the moz.dev.tb and moz.support.tb and calendar lists and have not seen any issues like this reported.
<oimon> oh. i might trash my profile and start again then
<TheOpenSourcerer> how big is your ~/.thunderbird dir?
<TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~$ du -sh /home/alord/.thunderbird/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 10G	/home/alord/.thunderbird/
<oimon> 5.2GB. most mail is on imap server
<oimon> although it's behaving even more weird right now as i can't traverse menu items
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: You could also try discussing your issue on #ubuntu-mozillateam (It's mainly ubuntu devs and packagers fwict).
<oimon> sweet
<oimon> i'll try the new profile first :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: / oimon i get stalls in TB too
<popey> and only in TB
<oimon> which version popey?
<popey> whatever is in 11.10
<oimon> i used to get stalls but worked around that with disabling of indexing
<oimon> now mine just goes slow and malfunctions after being left on overnight
<oimon> previously in v3 i could leave it running for weeks
<czajkowski> there is a creche beside our office and I was one of the parents who left my kids in there I'd be pulling them out and far far away. they seem miserable in there and don't stop crying from the time they go in there till home time
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Think you missed out an "if" in there ;-)
<oimon> i think thats what happens when kids get together with other kids
<oimon> one kids starts them all off
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski's secret love child outs
<Myrtti> blue cheese pizza â¥
<TheOpenSourcerer> My kids really liked their nursery. It was messy and chaotic but the kids had a whale of a time :-)
<JGJones> Greetings
<oimon> although i went to pick up my son from creche at church the other day and i couldn't find him..turned out he was playing quietly on his own in a pop-up tent thing....sweet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhh
<AlanBell> what makes you think they stop crying when they go home
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<oimon> :)
<oimon> my son whinges unless he has constant attention from every adult in the house
<Myrtti> AlanBell: the fact that kids get a headache from crying too much and they have to stop at sometime or their heads would explode
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hah
<czajkowski> no I don't mind kids crying, but these don't stop it's liek someone is pinching them
<czajkowski> one kid onf friday cried for 3 hrs straight
<Myrtti> I rode the bus yesterday back home from an Android meetup and a kid was whaling the whole 20 minute ride
<Myrtti> I had to wonder how bad a headache he had afterwards
<Myrtti> I still remember how mine were
<JGJones> Kids crying/screaming etc? There's always an advantage to being able to turn off hearing aids ;-)
<Myrtti> JGJones: silver lining eh :-P
<oimon> i often see kids on the train completely ignored by their mums though. makes me sad. they are asking questions and the mum is just reading the paper
<oimon> at least give the kid a book to read
<oimon> if yuo're gonna ignore then
<oimon> grr just got some insurance txt spam
<ujjain> what is cut a tooth? same as pull a tooth?
<oimon> ujjain: no, it's when the tooth is growing and breaks through the skin
<ujjain> oimon: ah thanks! :)
<ujjain> I did an English test, I did pretty bad. Your English seems good though.
<DJones> ujjain: Normally gets said about babies getting their first teeth
<ujjain> and I agree, I hate children ignored. Children see, children do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHi2dxSf9hw
<ujjain> DJones: thanks :)
<ujjain> all my life I ... (verb love + go) to the movies... I had 'All my life I loved going to the movies', is that 100% wrong?
<Myrtti> have loved
<ujjain> thanks, that is the right answer.
<Myrtti> it's not 100% wrong
<ujjain> I had 3 wrong out of 11, on 5 questions all/most answers seemed right to me.
<oimon> because it's continuing. however if you were speaking of a dead person, you are allowed to say "all his life, he loved going to the movies"
<ujjain> I understand, I was a bit disappointed though that I had such difficulty.
<ujjain> I see. :) thanks.
<danfish> heh - android ICS on a G1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym4A82ft5pw&feature=player_embedded#!
<oimon> if you no longer do it, you can also say "i used to love going to the movies, but now it is too expensive and most films are 3D rubbish anyway"
<Myrtti> or if you loved going to the movies, but then after someone threw up in your popcorn, didn't like it anymore...
<ujjain> 1,2,6,7,9 seemed to have multiple right answers for me, http://www.englishtag.com/tests/level_test_lower_advanced_C1_answers.asp - http://www.codepad.eu/view/7161459
<ujjain> thanks very much! :)
<ujjain> I am still looking for good methods to improve my English. However reading Yahoo answers, English-talking sites, seems to only make it worse.
<oimon> ujjain: for q6 check the tense in both parts
<ujjain> oimon: Your birthday party will be next month = correct though?
<Myrtti> ujjain: books.
<Myrtti> ujjain: audiobooks, written books.
<ujjain> Your birthday party is going to be next month.
<oimon> i think so, although a huge amount of english people say 6A, so you would be understood :)
<Myrtti> preferably nothing written after 2000
<ujjain> Yes, In Dutch it makes more sense to use 'is' too, the birthday is next month.
<oimon> wow some of these questions are hard :)
<ujjain> Myrtti: thanks, I should look for some good books, most educative material is very basic, but I guess I'll have to search better.
<ujjain> oimon: hehe, it was disappointing for me to see my results, I always considered my English to be 'very good'.
<ujjain> It's C1 test, there is A1/A2/B1/B2/C1/C2.
<Myrtti> Finns, according to my BF, tend to for get the a/the particles
<Myrtti> s/for get/forget/
<ujjain> they're bad at science?
<bigcalm> My Finnish ex-gf took delight in correcting my English :S
<ujjain> article = particle?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I know, it's my vice as well
<ujjain> my Finnish gf...
<ujjain> I joke :p
<Myrtti> I've forgotten most of my Finnish too.
<oimon> scandi's and dutch tend to be excellent english speakers
 * Myrtti goes back to knitting and listening to Stephen Fry read Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
<bigcalm> I find myself saying Milk, Water and Thank You in Finnish. Some things just don't go away
<Myrtti> your girlfriend did a better job at teaching you Finnish than I've done with D
<Myrtti> :-(
<ujjain> oimon: right, although you can easily recognize most dutch people by their accent.
<Myrtti> let's not start the discussion of accents
<oimon> shexshy
<Myrtti> I shiver when I think of the Finnish Rally English
<Myrtti> oh god
<ujjain> well, Dutch by Germans is easily spotted too :) Probably other way around too, no sure.
<oimon> Myrtti: have you ever watched that hideous eastenders programme? i can tell you that it isn't fake.
<Myrtti> oimon: they show only Corrie here :-P
<Myrtti> and I'm picky about what I watch from telly anyway
<oimon> that's horrible too
<bigcalm> "Not much has changed in the web/ directory. The most noticeable difference is the absence of the css/, js/ and images/ directories." - I would say that's a rather major change.
<Myrtti> history shows, some cooking shows, science shows, some DIY/redecoration shows, and some standup
<oimon> soon i will be playing zelda instead of watching telly
<bigcalm> I hope somebody buys it from my wishlist for me
 * oimon is getting a gold controller
<oimon> although the price changed overnight  in the wrong direction :(
<Myrtti> I'm annoyed I can't figure out a way to do something like what get_iplayer does, 4oD and iPlayer websites worked rubbish on my tablet and downloading iplayer stuff and watching the video on vlc worked so much better
<Myrtti> oh, missed a word
 * oimon ponders correcting Myrtti's grammar
<Myrtti> I'm annoyed I can't figure out a way to do something like what get_iplayer does *with 4oD*
<ujjain> I use css js images directories.
<oimon> "were rubbish" or "worked badly" :P
<Myrtti> oimon: that's just grammar. Forgetting words made the whole thing not make any sense at all.
<Myrtti> :-(
<Myrtti> double fail
<oimon> ah i understand the sentence now
<ujjain> thanks for blackadder by the way.
<oimon> what tablet Myrtti?
<gord> i think the best option right now is *cough* certain *cough* websites. that like. y'know. arrrr.
<oimon> gord?
<oimon> ah i see
 * dogmatic69 got a second motorbike \o/
<Myrtti> oimon: exopc - I've not managed to get the CrystalHD to work on this yet
<gord> although honestly... i end up buying dvds of anything on channel 4 thats worth it and ripping my own stuff to my file server, stream off that
<daubers> dogmatic69: :( I need to get my first
<oimon> i prefer not to y'arrr
<daubers> (proper bike, not 125cc putput)
<dogmatic69> daubers: good time of year to buy :)
<daubers> dogmatic69: Bad time to buy, trying to buy a house
<dogmatic69> daubers: i got the RVF400 and now a RGV250
<Myrtti> gord: when in UK it's just less hassle to use the actual service they offer - 4oD has *all
<Myrtti> * episodes of Grand Designs.
<dogmatic69> daubers: good time to buy a house, if you can get a loan
<daubers> dogmatic69: Yeah, mortgage shouldn't be a problem tbh
<daubers> got 25% deposit and borrowing less than 3x income
<dogmatic69> just the fat deposit
<oimon> aren't interest rates about to go up a lot?
<gord> Myrtti, right, i mean if you can't actually use their service, if for example, it doesn't work well. or in my case, i can't run it on the box hooked up to my tv because they offer no integration with things outside their flash player
<dogmatic69> ah, nice
<daubers> oimon: doubt it, unless italy or greece explodes
<dogmatic69> daubers: just sneak a few % out the deposit and get a bike :P
<daubers> dogmatic69: Last test on Monday
<daubers> !
<dogmatic69> mod 2?
<daubers> yup
<dogmatic69> nice, good luck
<dogmatic69> hope the weather is good, they like canceling bookings for things like a slight breeze
<daubers> heh, hopefully won't get too icy over the weekend
<dogmatic69> yesterday morning was close, almost put the bike in the shed :/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * JGJones ponders...tempted to switch to virginmedia - it's now enabled for where I live...but then I need to save money - xmas and all that...
<JGJones> oh and need a new telly
<bigcalm> Cable is gooooood
<bigcalm> When it works
<brobostigon> yep, you need to be able to watch big bang theory, :)
<bigcalm> The TV service is pretty rock solid. The BB is irritating at times sadly
<bigcalm> JGJones: if you know somebody at VM, they can get you on mates rates - top wack tv/phone packages with 30mb bb and at half the cost
<brobostigon> only time when i had cable, was over a decade ago, with telewest, for just under two years.
<oimon> VM customers have a honeymoon period, then they start hating VM
<bigcalm> But we put up with it if we can get substantial discounts :)
<brobostigon> it has to be better than carphone-warehouse/talktalk.?
<oimon> not IME
<brobostigon> that is if we could get cable.
<bigcalm> I've found cable to be more reliable than adsl. But it will depend upon how good your telephone lines are
<brobostigon> bigcalm: for around 1.5 weeks a month, it is unreliable, ie, it wont sync half the time. that is very unreliable. on average.
<bigcalm> If ADSL went down, the ISP would blame BT and BT would blame the ISP. With VM cable, they only have themselves to blame :)
<oimon> if all your street are on cable, then it's possible that you get slowdown (read 50% packet loss) on evenings and weekends
<danfish> with VM, it's finding about which number to call if there's a problem. There are 'hidden' support line numbers esp if you are on primium packages
<oimon> wow, that's the ryanair approach to customer support
<danfish> http://www.saynoto0870.com/companysearch.php is a good place to search
<brobostigon> best for my sanity i have found with talktalk, as last time i spoke to them, i started shouting down the phone at them, is, i give my dad techinical instruction, so he knows what he is talking about, and let him sort it out.
<oimon> i've never had to call talktalk
<brobostigon> thats good, good for and better for your sanity, :)
<oimon> i would like to give up my phone  and just have internet though
<cliftonts> oimon, are you with talk talk?
<oimon> cliftonts: yep
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: meh
<cliftonts> oimon: RUN! While you still can!
 * czajkowski throws a bucket of ice over davmor2 
<oimon> cliftonts: what's coming?
<chrisjrob> just like in the movies - they always stop to ask why
<cliftonts> well, if you're really unlucky talk talk
<cliftonts> I only ever dealt with them once and it took TWO MONTHS to get my dial tone back!
<popey> jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
<popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts/dAJhnFQ4fkM
<popey> All morons welcome!
<cliftonts> erm...
<Myrtti> 404
<cliftonts> popey, if I'm reading that right you're arguing that ubuntu is an operating system and some guy disagrees?
<Myrtti> oh right, some fail in my terminator usage
<Myrtti> fabsh is what fabsh is
<AlanBell> cliftonts: it is more meta than that
<cliftonts> more meta?
<Myrtti> one of the multiple reasons I stopped using identi.ca
<popey> the other guy thinks people shouldn't call ubuntu an OS
<TheOpenSourcerer> yawn
<AlanBell> fab said it isn't, popey says it is, not sure who fab was replying to or if he was ranting at the air
 * AlanBell doesn't care
<popey> the latter
<popey> I'm just using this as an opportunity to take the mick âº
<cliftonts> popey I'm getting worried now, if I've been using my pc without an os for 6 years, surely I've been staring at the POST screen?
<popey> hah
<oimon> fab is a troll and he knows it
<cliftonts> so if he thinks ubuntu isn't an os, what does he feel your os is exactly?
<popey> "meh" âº
<Myrtti> so,
<Myrtti> expeliamus
<Myrtti> *poof*
<Myrtti> now that the troll is gone
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: no no no, you get rid of trolls by clubbing them with their own club - Wingardium Leviosa!
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<Myrtti> well strictly speaking he does have a point
<Myrtti> Ubuntu is not an OS. Linux kernel is.
<Myrtti> and the GNU tools that make it somewhat usable for an end user
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: then Android isn't an OS either
<MartijnVdS> and OS is the kernel + its userland
<popey> Strictly speaking he should not focus just on Ubuntu
<Myrtti> popey: exactly
<oimon> it's not worth discussing guys...it's just troll fodder
<cliftonts> but do we not consider the ubuntu customisations and the kernal together to be ubuntu?
<popey> So ubuntu on TVs!
<cliftonts> since we can't use ubuntu without the kernel
<popey> (subject change there)
<MartijnVdS> yes, can't see that happening soon
<MartijnVdS> same as Google TV
<popey> what about set top boxes?
<davmor2> popey: I'm all moroned up
<popey> or Apple T Vlike devices?
<MartijnVdS> but Ubuntu has the codec problem (most TV content is H.264)
<MartijnVdS> + crypto/drm
<popey> we have codecs for that
<popey> gstreamer fluendo ones
<popey> they do h264
<MartijnVdS> sure, but not DRM
<Laney> spotify:track:6dH3J9xtoS9jYA7ooDlobZ
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: You can purchase the DRM version from vendors that isn't the end of the world
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraViolet_(system)
<Myrtti> Laney: should that link work in some other way than copypaste?
<Myrtti> Laney: http links would be more useful :-(
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Apple and Disney do not support this format.[4]"
<MartijnVdS> popey: quite important players
<popey> yeah, bummer â¹
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Fluendo do a dvd player that includes decryption it's not impossible to support
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: no but there _is_ an obstacle atm
<popey> what about the other side of it
<popey> playing back your own media or watching telly
<popey> like xbmc/myth
<MartijnVdS> I'd love that
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: No you just buy the player from Fluendo the end
<MartijnVdS> popey: but I don't see how Unity is going to help me with that
<popey> hmmm
<Myrtti> HA!
<Laney> Myrtti: you can patch your terminal emulator, but otherwise no
<popey> HA?
<Laney> I just find going through the browser more tiresome
<Myrtti> Stephen Fry pronounces Nougat like I pronounce it!
<Laney> ymmv
<Myrtti> VICTORY
<popey> HAâ½
<popey> Myrtti: nooogar or nugget?
<Myrtti> former
<popey> thats because he's british and we say fings like proper
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<popey> innit
<davmor2> popey: Man you're so street, boyacka
 * brobostigon cringes.
<oimon> does guildford have a silent first D?
<Myrtti> well D teases me about how I pronounce it
<Myrtti> :-|
<oimon> i call it om-nom
<Myrtti> mmmm nougat, the ultimate seasonal treat
<popey> oimon: yes
<oimon> a foreigner once asked if guildford and gillford were different places
<popey> Gilf'd
<Myrtti> Wiener Nougat is the one I have for Christmas, it has little flakes of almond
<popey> Nougat++
<Myrtti> and for Easter Mignon eggs
<Myrtti> real chicken egg emptied and filled with nougat
<Myrtti> mmmmmmm
<Myrtti> nougat
<Myrtti> oimon: it's not the only place that confuses with how it's pronounced
<davmor2> oimon: There are places that make Guildford sound like a pleasure to pronounce.  For example Brewood is pronounced Brood
<JGJones> Hmm - would anyone know of an electronic booking system of some sort? Open or closed - doesn't matter but a decent one for a small business?
<Myrtti> Chicester took forever for me to learn
<Myrtti> chichester, even
<Laney> luffbra
<oimon> i discovered one of the worst words in the english language is palimpsest
<MartijnVdS> oimon: aka "disk-utility" ;)
<oimon> it's also a real word
<MartijnVdS> I Know
<oimon> a bad one
<MartijnVdS> A palimpsest is a manuscript page from a scroll or book from which the text has been scraped off and which can be used again.
<AlanBell> it makes gimp seem like a good name for an application
<Myrtti> ok, now I may need to fiddle with audacity or something to cut this piece of audiobook into a clip and send it to D
<MartijnVdS> which sounds right for hard disks etc. :)
<oimon> etch-a-sketch would never have taken off if it was called that
<JGJones> I still can't get used to calling the town my dad live near as "Toaster"
<MartijnVdS> oimon: palimpsest-a-sketch?
<oimon> i came across it in real-world the other day when re-reading 1984
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: "Toaster"?
<JGJones> Towcester
 * AlanBell has a customer in towcester
<davmor2> AlanBell: You had to come and lower the tone didn't you ;)
<AlanBell> davmor2: every time I spot it getting too highbrow I like to bring it down a notch
<davmor2> AlanBell: haha
<JGJones> Well if you look up gimp on Wikipedia you can get confirmation that Jimmy Welsh is indeed a gimp....
<oimon> ugh
<manly_les> hello, i'm running oneiric with gnome 3 and i think something in gnome is conflicting with my touchpad, so it doesn't work. does anybody have any tips on how i might figure out what the problem is?
<oimon> i used to have a adblock rule to block that thing
<JGJones> Jimmy Wales even...
<davmor2> we have the locals pronouncing Smethwick as smerick took me ages to figure out where smerick was
<Laney> belvoir is a good one near here
<Laney> = beaver
 * oimon realises he hasn;t listened to the last 2 UUPC episodes
<oimon> has anyone played oblivion? have a question about it
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2011-04/cp110037en.pdf
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^
<MartijnVdS> According to Advocate General Cruz VillalÃ³n, a measure ordering an internet
<MartijnVdS> service provider to install a system for filtering and blocking electronic
<MartijnVdS> communications in order to protect intellectual property rights in principle infringes
<MartijnVdS> fundamental rights
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: that was an opinion, in April
<AlanBell> however the judgement is today
<AlanBell> http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=EN&Submit=rechercher&numaff=C-70/10
<popey> pondering lunch
<MartijnVdS> uhr yes
<davmor2> popey: I have to wonder what fab was thinking to be honest, especially when all the distributions call their distribution an Operating System :)
<AlanBell> so basically the opinion was upheld in judgement today
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: which is good..
<popey> davmor2: "meh"
<popey> every time he blurts out crap like that it makes me less likely to want to be involved in oggcamp
<daubers> cat fab > /dev/null
<daubers> end of story
<MartijnVdS> /dev/fab -> /dev/random
<davmor2> daubers: you trying to kill your system /dev/null can't handle that much rubbish ;)
<daubers> davmor2: I don't even think the ghostbusters laser containment grid could contain that much rubbish :)
<awilkins> It's a big twinkie.
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> if all you knew of fab was from oggcamp you wouldn't realise he is a part time internet troll
<daubers> he does seem to behave/be intimidated into submission at oggcamp
<davmor2> oimon: Part time?
<oimon> or is actually a nice guy, but it's all too easy to stir up stuff on the internet
<oimon> i have the same problem at work. when i'm in a seminar and they invite answers from the attendees : do you agree/disagree with this? i can't help but say something if i disagree
<daubers> just managed to spill my coffee all over my desk :(
<MartijnVdS> :(
<oimon> the real full time troll is that guy i keep seeing on g+ with the red fedora on his head...jan de wilderbeest or something
<chrisjrob> fab does actually believe everything he says, which isn't particularly trollish
<MartijnVdS> chrisjrob: ah so he's just wrong, wrong, wrong
<chrisjrob> it's just no-one else does!
<oimon> A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject
<chrisjrob> he used to be fanatically pro-ubuntu
<oimon> what happened?
<chrisjrob> can't recall, moved to fedora some time ago
<popey> he also used to be fanatically pro-identica
<chrisjrob> oimon: your mission is to listen to every outlaws episode and until you find out and report back
<oimon> noooooooooooooooooooo
<czajkowski> aKademy annoucned http://dot.kde.org/2011/11/24/akademy-2012-tallinn-estonia
<chrisjrob> popey: yes, i followed him for a short time
<popey> he's a nice guy in real life, i dunno why his online persona is such a douche
<siriusly> I thought for a while he WAS identica! ;)
<chrisjrob> a one man microblogging avalanche
<popey> hey ho
<MartijnVdS> just like popey _is_ Google PLus
<oimon> irl i have approx 50x more tact.
<MartijnVdS> irl doesn't exist
<oimon> 404 error?
<MartijnVdS> 410, gone ;)
<oimon> it is dark here
<oimon> you were hit by a grue
<davmor2> oimon: set grue on fire and use it to light your way
<oimon> light grue
<oimon> you can't do it
<oimon> wow this is just like playing oblivion
<daubers> !zork
<daubers> :(
<oimon> http://pot.home.xs4all.nl/infocom/zork1.html
<daubers> \o/
<oimon> twin kingdom valley was my favourite adventure when i were a lad
<dwatkins> oimon: that was a great game :)
<oimon> never did finish it though..days before walkthroughs
<czajkowski> .c
<dwatkins> same here, too difficult - played it loads though
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> BBC/electron?
<daubers> woop! 4 house viewings booked for saturday
<MartijnVdS> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1360598
<daubers> all in FttC areas :)
<AlanBell> excellent :)
<popey> chaps...
<popey> actually, scratch that
<Laney> for some reason i am listening to the so solid crew
<oimon> eww
<davmor2> popey: Oh you don't want scratchy chaps
<popey> name all the things we've ever "removed from Ubuntu"... Gimp, evolution ..
<popey> what else?
<oimon> from default?
<popey> ya
<gord> kinda scary how many uk mirrors are listed as "last update unknown" on the launchpad mirrors page
<popey> blamejpds
<oimon> apt-get, tomboy (soon), pitivi?
<popey> aptitude ITYM
<oimon> aptitude
<oimon> yep
<popey> ta
<oimon> my brain transalted it
<gord> popey, you are on virgin right? is their repo up to date? have recommended people on vm use that in the past
<popey> no idea, i dont use it
<Myrtti> I just use the mirror benchmark
<Myrtti> and pick the fastest
<gord> well yeah thats the problem, quite a few are at least a week old
<davmor2> gord there is a virgin repo?
<popey> yes
<gord> davmor2, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
<popey> http://ubuntu.virginmedia.com/archive/
<popey> 24-Nov-2011 05:23
<popey> looks good
<gord> am looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ubuntu.virginmedia.com-archive specifically - but it may be lying to me
<davmor2> gord nice
<Laney> popey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.precise/changes is the raw seed changes
<Laney> cheese?
<daubers> gnome2
<popey> cheese was ever in?
<popey> maybe on nbr
<daubers> vim!
<Laney> ARGH
<Laney> no more so solid crew please
<TheOpenSourcerer> Son's school just sent out an email: "Waverley Abbey School will be open as usual on 30th November.Â  A letter will be sent home with the children on Friday setting out the position of staff."
<TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect the staff will say something like we don't strike.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we all vote Tory anyway :-)
<popey> ours dont
<popey> and wifeys previous employer told them not to
<MartijnVdS> I don't think employers can tell (or even ASK) you how to vote here..
<popey> because they're private schools, the local authority dont set pay scales
<popey> so the issue doesnt affect them, so they 'shouldn't
<Laney> pidgin
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I think popey means striking, rather than voting.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-p
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, I think going on strike should be outlawed :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> +1
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it never helps, and it inconveniences the wrong people.
<ali1234> i also think striking should be outlawed
<MartijnVdS> there's going to be a public transport strike in a few weeks here
<MartijnVdS> Because they want to get paid more. You won't get more if you don't serve your customers properly!
<ali1234> because then, the population will have absolutely no reason not to go on a riot and burn down the houses of parliament
<ali1234> i mean it's illegal either way right?
<ali1234> or it would be
<ali1234> the strike is about pensions actually
<popey> Laney: ahh!
<Laney> my brain cannot find any more
<Laney> debdiff ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-minimal (etc) between releases if you want to know the real story :-)
<popey> âº
<Laney> vitamin string quartet have done an absurd number of albums
<chrisjrob> don't think the teachers will get any public sumpathy
<chrisjrob> *sympathy
<ali1234> the ironic thing is that the teacher strike inconveniences exactly the right group of people: families where both parents have a job that increase the cost of living for everyone else while treating school as "free" daycare
<Azelphur> curiosity question, what permissions do people usually set on /var/www?
<popey> Azelphur: i dont
<Azelphur> I opted for $USER:www-data and g+s
<Azelphur> o.O
<popey> i put websites in /srv/example.com/www
<Azelphur> well ok then, wherever your htdocs are at :P
<popey> and logs in /srv/example/logs/
<popey> s/example/example.com/
<popey> anyway.
<popey> yeah, owned by www-data
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> mine are $user:www-data so I have a user that can read write there without sudo
<Laney> does our apache use /srv or /var by default these days?
<brobostigon>  /var/www
<AlanBell> /var/www
<shauno> could be worse.  how does /Library/WebServer/Documents rock you
<popey> c:\inetsrv
<shauno> I use /srv/service/host, but I see the logic behind /srv/host/service
<Myrtti> I don't think it has ever been in /srv
<Myrtti> I was just looking for the window key and stumbled across installation disks for 8.04 and 5.10
<shauno> I don't believe so either.  It's one of those times where sensible & default are two completely different things
<Laney> some stuff encourages you to use /srv (wordpress)
<Laney> but really it is up to the administrator
<diplo> I use /srv/www/html
<Azelphur> why is it that most server hosts insist on doing really irritating things with the default Ubuntu install
<Azelphur> like enabling the root account, and removing APT repositories
<popey> enabling root makes total sense on a server
<Azelphur> I don't think so, I prefer it disabled for the same reasons I prefer it disabled at home.
<Azelphur> it's disabled on my server
<popey> although the single user stuff works differently now so maybe less of a problem
<gord> gandi have a silly setup like that, i mean i don't really care or know enough about root enabled - but its different than i what i use on any other ubuntu machine
<gord> doesn't take much effort to change it back to default though
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04 Accessibility Plans - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/24/ubuntu-12-04-accessibility-plans/
<Azelphur> gord yea, they do other irritating things like disabling half the repos often, too.
<gord> well yeah, i mean thats normal
<Azelphur> why?
<gord> because only main is supported
<davmor2> Azelphur: What repos do you think are disabled
<Azelphur> davmor2: usually they disable multiverse and such in the default install
<Azelphur> sorry, not multiverse
<Azelphur> universe \o/
<Azelphur> gord that makes no sense though, why does it being officially or not officially support them give them the right to modify the stock install and then sell it as Ubuntu?
<Azelphur> surely if it's modified, it's no longer Ubuntu and they shouldn't be distributing it as such?
<davmor2> Azelphur: Yeah so their job is to ship a product that is supported which is only main,  If you enable universe it's on your head if it goes pearshaped as gord says
<popey> ubuntu ships with universe/multiverse enabled by default
<popey> has done for ages
<Azelphur> ^ This
<popey> its their choice what they deliver though
<Laney> it's not like most users have a support contract
<Azelphur> but the hosts take it upon themselves to disable it :P
<popey> you are making a mountain out of a molehill IMO
<gord> +1
<gord> it takes about two seconds to correct
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> it's not really that easy to correct, have to find a machine that has a non-broken sources.list and copy it in
<Azelphur> unless there's an easier way
<Laney> modification> ubuntu patches so many upstream projects and does not rename them
<popey> the format hasnt changed for years
<gord> Azelphur, erm, add universe and multiverse to the source line that already exists
<Azelphur> ah :p
<popey> perl -p -i -e 's/main\ /main\ universe\ multiverse/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
<popey> job done
<gord> they are all different in a regular sources.list just so that its easy to enable/disable them
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> ooo missed a space
<popey> perl -p -i -e 's/main\ /main\ universe\ multiverse\ /g' /etc/apt/sources.list
<Azelphur> spose it's easy to fix then, it irritates me though
<ali1234> perl
<ali1234> :(
<MartijnVdS> \o/ perl
 * gord is guessing that 90% of the reason popey uses that instead of sed is because of -p -i -e
<Azelphur> I like my current host, Give them URL to ISO -> You get what you asked for
<popey> correct
<gord> its the reason i shall in the future
<Azelphur> haha
<gord> huh, misstyping "less" as "echo" sure does make you feel dumb when you get the result
<MartijnVdS> ARGH
<MartijnVdS> Why do I get 600.000 "Linux kernel vulnerability" emails from the security team
<MartijnVdS> can't they just merge it all into one message/
<shauno> so 'Commodore USA' have a linux distro now.  iiiinteresting.
<shauno> and they've set $PS1 as 'READY'.  nice  lol
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> Google Apps smtp stopped sending for peeps?
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
<MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
<MartijnVdS> I don't use the SMTP on google apps
<MartijnVdS> only the web interface
<shauno> I'm too much of a control freak to put google in charge of my email :/
<bigcalm> It woke up eventually
<bigcalm> shauno: company email, don't really have a choice :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Let go! You can do it!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's only email!
<shauno> it's not tho.  email becomes your defacto identify for everything
<shauno> and google have practically zero customer service.  that's just a disaster waiting to happen.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Do I _have_ to go Tyler Durden? :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: You are NOT your email account :)
<shauno> tell that to every lost password form on the planet
<dwatkins> Why not have a secondary account on a separate system?
<popey> http://flightofthevulcan.weebly.com/
<shauno> he was born 3 years after his parent(s) were lost?
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sounds like the WC alright
<davmor2> popey: OMG! how will we every survive the comedy
<shauno> reminds me of a biography I once read, of spike milligan.  it started with "his mother wanted a girl, his father, a boy - so they were both disappointed".  and went downhill from there
<bigcalm> popey: wonderful :)
<jutnux> Evening gents / ladies.
<manly_les> hello all
<manly_les> anybody here know much about gnome 3?
<gordonjcp> manly_les: yes, it's horrible
<riaz23> Hi, Greetings to all
<ianto> Hello there riaz23
 * penguin42 hmm I should read upon parental controls; I need to lock a machine down before I give it to my mum
<riaz23> I have installed ubuntu 11.10 and now when I start the system I can't get GUI / Login screen, but the terminal is appeared and I have to login in terminal and start the GUI through command, so can anyone kindly tell what is the way to resolve this and get the Login screen direct.
<riaz23> Hi ianto can you please tell the reason and solution of my problem
<monsterwizard> I never got the linux talk from my parents when I was younger
<monsterwizard> http://xkcd.com/456/
<Darael> riaz23: What command art thou using to start the GUI?
<Darael> riaz23: Art thou starting GDM?  LightDM?  Using startx?
<riaz23> yes Darael
<Darael> Which one, riaz23?
<riaz23> startx and also with sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
<penguin42> riaz23: Fresh install or is it an upgrade?
<riaz23> upgrade penguin42
<Darael> Sounds to me like lightdm, which is the new default, isn't starting.
<Darael> Might want to try removing gdm and reinstalling lightdm.
<riaz23> how Darael?
<Darael> Well, a "sudo apt-get --reinstall install lightdm" ought to take care of the latter.
<Darael> If it sorts the problem, then removing GDM is entirely optional.
<riaz23> ok trying
<penguin42> riaz23: I'd start by making sure you've got all the updates; if that doesn't fix it, I'd make sure you install lightdm and ubuntu-greeter (using synaptic package manager or apt-get)
<riaz23> dear penguin42 I have installed all the updates becauise after login when I searched for updates (in synaptic package manager) I saw no new updates
<penguin42> riaz23: When did you do that? Just now?
<riaz23> no no some time before (after the installation)
<penguin42> riaz23: Please do it again now, there were some updates in the last few days
<riaz23> now I used "sudo apt-get --reinstall install lightdm" but the same problem occurs
<penguin42> ah actually, the updates I'm thinking of are still in rpoposed so you prboably won't get them
<riaz23> penguin42: then what to do ?
<penguin42> riaz23: can you make sure you have the ubuntu-greeter package installed?
<riaz23> how to check that?
<penguin42> use synaptic
<riaz23> ok then
<riaz23> how to check in synaptic?
<penguin42> search for the package and it'll show you and tell you fi it's installed
<riaz23> ok
<riaz23> it shows not installed
<riaz23> penguin42: should I install that?
<penguin42> yes
<riaz23> ok
<riaz23> penguin42: it's installed now?
<penguin42> is it? I can't see your computer
<riaz23> how can see you?
<riaz23> oh soor! penguin42: I meant that it's installed then now what to do?
<penguin42> riaz23: Reboot - and see if it starts
<riaz23> ok penguin42:
<riaz23> yes dear penguin42: it works now. Thank you very very much
<penguin42> good
<riaz23> one thing more, how can I free the disk space?
<penguin42> run computer janitor and let it clean up
 * MartijnVdS has his Galaxy Nexus
<MartijnVdS> it's shin
<MartijnVdS> y
<penguin42> rooted it yet?
<MartijnVdS> no
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nice :o didn't know that was out yet
<MartijnVdS> Apparently I'm the only geek who doesn't root his phone 8-)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: got it from clove(.co.uk)
<MartijnVdS> as it'll only come out next week in .nl
<Azelphur> pricey :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Normal price for a smart phone
<Azelphur> idd
 * penguin42 has a low end one - was about Â£70
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, I have a sim-only contract, so I don't pay a monthly "we subsidised your phone" fee
<Azelphur> I was going to buy it back when the rumors where that it had a full keyboard
<MartijnVdS> and I don't get Vodafone's crapware pre-installed
<Azelphur> then I was sadface :(
<Azelphur> yea, I do that too
<Azelphur> I got my HTC Desire Z for Â£315 and I still think it's the best available qwerty android phone? XD
<MartijnVdS> they still make phones with keyboards?
<MartijnVdS> The speech recogniser even understands my accent of English :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea I prefer them, you can type far faster and I play games on my phone :P
<MartijnVdS> I have my games on my tablet
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> \o/ wordfeud
<MartijnVdS> (in case anyone wants to play, my username is "mstreek")
<Pr0ph3t> hi all
<Pr0ph3t> can you advice me on a safe method to forward x11 to my Android phone? I connect through irssi bot now, no tunneling and only in local WLAN. I'll use a vpn or tunneling or both in the future
<Pr0ph3t> to connect from remote that is
<penguin42> have you got an X server for the phone?
<Pr0ph3t> then I can't ok, I can use VNC though, but that isn't quite as safe as ssh right?
<penguin42> Pr0ph3t: Forward the vnc connection through ssh
<Pr0ph3t> that way I would be able to use VNC through ssh in a relatively safe environment
<penguin42> nod
<Pr0ph3t> thanks
<penguin42> it's port 5900 for vnc :0
<Pr0ph3t> or 5901 :P
<penguin42> for vnc :1
<dwatkins> 5900+display number
<Pr0ph3t> that's one of the few things I know
<Azelphur> I can't use VNC :(
<Pr0ph3t> pardon, is that the same as saying tunneling VNC through ssh?
<Azelphur> They tend to scream "OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME" since I'm running at 7680x1200 xD
<Pr0ph3t> I'm trying to find a howto online
<penguin42> Azelphur: How many monitors across?
<Azelphur> 4
<penguin42> Azelphur: Nice, that would be a bit tragic on a phone
<Azelphur> it's a bit tragic on pretty much anything
<Azelphur> apart from my XPS M1730 doesn't do that bad, it can do a quarter of it!
<Azelphur> <insert rant about how modern laptops seem to have gone backwards in terms of resolution>
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> laptops are only limited by how much you are willing to carry
<penguin42> ali1234: The resolution (as in pitch rather than size) isn't that great sometimes
<ali1234> if you don't mind that it weighs 4kg, there are plenty of high res laptops available
<Azelphur> ali1234: lies
<Azelphur> I havn't seen any modern laptops that do 1920x1200
<ali1234> you aren't looking hard enough
<Azelphur> also, my M1730 ways 6.44
<Azelphur> before you add a second hdd
<ali1234> 1920x1200 isn't a common resolution
<Azelphur> every monitor I own is 1920x1200 xD
<ali1234> 1920x1080 are extremely common
<Azelphur> see, backwardsness :(
<penguin42> 1920x1200 used to be common until 1920x1080 came along cheap
<Azelphur> I think I'm some form of superhuman or something, I'm quite happy with 7pt at 1920x1200 26"
<MartijnVdS> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/11/forget-shopping-friday-is-update-your-parents-browser-day/248933/
<ali1234> http://www.selbuyproduct.com/index.php/hp-pavilion-hdx18t-18-4-inch-16-9-laptop-intel-core-2-duo-t9400-at-2-53ghz-4-gb-ram-500-gb-hard-drive-wuxga-ultra-brightview-1920x1200-1080p-blu-ray-rom-fingerprint-reader-vista-ultimate.html?___store=default
<ali1234> 1920x1200, weight 4kg
<Azelphur> Â£620 for a core 2 duo haha
<Azelphur> that's pretty much the same specs as my M1730
<ali1234> you are paying for the huge screen
<Azelphur> My M1730 cost Â£500 with the huge screen (17" 1920x1200) quad core 2.4ghz, nvidia 8700M GT
<Azelphur> (2 years ago)
<penguin42> Azelphur: I have a 1920x1200 15.4" laptop for work
<Azelphur> nice
<ali1234> the bottom line is nobody wants an 18" laptop
<Azelphur> *waves*
<Azelphur> I EXIST
<ali1234> and if the screen is any smaller you can't read it anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: well, there's this tile missing in my back yard...
<ali1234> WHO SAID THAT?
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: an 18" laptop would fill that hole perfectly
<shauno> I wouldn't mind 18", but it'd have to come with wheels.  and fold out legs so I could scoot a chair under it
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ot#s 2.8kg apparently
<Azelphur> penguin42: yours? or mine
<penguin42> Azelphur: Mine
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> 17" macbook pro has 1920x1200
<ali1234> starts at $2500
<Azelphur> only $2.5k :D
<MartijnVdS> that's like a million bitcoins right?
<ali1234> no, actually it's about 1000
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: probably about 1.8k
<MartijnVdS> didn't bitcoins lose 90% of their worth a few weeks ago?
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ali1234: is closer, 1120 :D
<ali1234> they are still worth over $2
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yep but they are still worth more than the dollar / pound
<ali1234> also it was more than 90%
<hamitron> sadly they are devaluing faster than both atm too :/
<Azelphur> seems to be holding from what I've seen
<hamitron> well, I was comparing the last month
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not really any good holding, then crashing every so often when someone sells a load
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> end result is down :(
<ali1234> well 2 weeks ago someone sold nearly 10% of all bitcoin on gox, price only dropped by about 30%
<ali1234> 500000 sold, out of 7 million total in existence
<hamitron> "only"
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> price dropped from $3 to $2.2
<ali1234> that was a good day to buy
<hamitron> there appears to be less money in the markets for buy orders atm
<ali1234> well yeah, everyone bought at $2.2
<ali1234> you won't see any new money in the markets until the new year at the earliest
<hamitron> if the dude who sold 500000 bitcoins is here.... I'm a good friend btw
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> was probably rick falkvinge
<ali1234> or coinhunter
<penguin42> or whoever nabbed them in one of the worms a while ago?
<ali1234> no, a thief wouldn't dump them all at once
<penguin42> he would - so he can run away with his money
<Pernig> if there was one thing they could dump all at once, it would be that
<Pernig> could it even be defined as something that's been stolen by law?
<zleap> i am trying to use start up disc creator to put an iso on to a usb stick,  does it on;ly work with ubuntu iso files
<ali1234> yes
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so how do i do the same thing with a different iso
<zleap> say for a very small linux distro
<ali1234> unetbootin
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> from grub how can i boot the system so i can reset the root or login passwords
<zleap> not booted this laptop in over a year so not sure what login details are
<popey> Evening all.
<jutnux> Hello popey!
<jacobw> append 'single init=/bin/bash'
<jacobw> @zleap
<popey> zleap: press shift or escape after bios and choose recovery mode
<zleap> ok
 * jacobw forgets ubuntu is helpful
<zleap> i have normal boot and single user mode in the grub menu
<jacobw> you'll want single user mode
<zleap> ok do i need to edit the line
<jacobw> singe init=/bin/bash
<jacobw> s/singe/single
<popey> no
<popey> you dont need to do that
<popey> just choose recovery mode
<popey> or single user, or whatever its called, it doesnt need editing
<zleap> ok
<jutnux> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG%21+Ubuntu%21%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<zleap> ok it says give root password or type ctil-d to continue
<jacobw> i hate 'office' applications
<jacobw> why isn't html a document format? it does everything
<jacobw> obvious, html *is* a document format
<jutnux> jacobw: Because there a no desktop applications for HTML that are actually good.
<jacobw> there should be :(
<zleap> ok i am at a root promot
<zleap> prompt
<jacobw> root shell?
<jacobw> 'passwd'
<zleap> i got it
<zleap> i can now log in thanks
<zleap> i need to check this usb  flash drive is bootable
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Daviey Walker] Has it really really been 20 years since Freddie Mercury died? - https://plus.google.com/103377990277719942817/posts/1dpncLMNYaX
<AlanBell> Daviey subbed his G+ stream to the planet??
 * AlanBell is listening to Queen right now as it happens
<popey> he has made g+ his blogging platform, yes
<popey> neat thing to do
<AlanBell> good stuff
<Daviey> AlanBell: yeah.. is that ok? ;)
<AlanBell> innovative ;)
<AlanBell> I like it
<ubuntubhoy> nothing like a good netsplit
<Daviey> AlanBell: driven by laziness :)
<AlanBell> Daviey: well there are two types of lazyness, like maths. Pure and applied.
<AlanBell> This would be applied lazyness
 * penguin42 wonders how much effort applied lazyness takes, I mean it would be easier not to apply it?
<AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/974/
<Daviey> hah
<AlanBell> I have in the past written data import routines, then found out it would have taken half the time to re-key the data
<Daviey> yes, but which did you enjoy more?
<AlanBell> the data import routine, every time
<Daviey> Both can be re-used, but one of them will be more efficient the second time. :)
<shauno> a lot of the time, I'll go nuts trying to automate something that'll never be used again.  just because doing it by hand tends to leave me in a mindless, trancelike state.  which may or may not involve drooling.
<Daviey> too often, i write little scripts to achieve tasks - but then don't save them, so have to re-write them when i need them again. :)
<monsterwizard> how do I access the .login script?
 * Daviey notes working from /tmp is an extreme sport, i didn't get the name Dangerous Daviey for nothin'.
<AlanBell> monsterwizard: what do you mean?
<monsterwizard> and .cshwrc
<monsterwizard> Well I want to view the script
<AlanBell> nano .login
<monsterwizard> i.e look at the code
<AlanBell> where do you think a script called .login should exist?
<AlanBell> and why do you think you would have a .cshwrc?
<monsterwizard> somewhere in the root folder I guess
<monsterwizard> looking for it now
<AlanBell> err, no
<monsterwizard> oops .cshrc
<AlanBell> you are reading this from a book about unix
<monsterwizard> yep
<AlanBell> :)
<monsterwizard> hmmmm
<AlanBell> ok, use unix, to go with that book, or use a book about ubuntu to go with what is in front of you
<AlanBell> C shell is not bash
<AlanBell> you can do less ~/.bashrc if you want
<monsterwizard> ah interesting
<monsterwizard> I want to learn linux
<monsterwizard> I mean
<monsterwizard> not ubuntu if that makes sense
<monsterwizard> I want to learn different commands, important scripts etc
<AlanBell> Ubuntu is like most other modern linux distributions
<AlanBell> but it is not the same as BSD Unix
<AlanBell> !fsh
<AlanBell> !fhs
<lubotu3`> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview  see also: man hier
<AlanBell> reasonable starting point
<AlanBell> !bash
<lubotu3`> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<monsterwizard> 0u sweet
<monsterwizard> text books are horribly outdated
<penguin42> they're good for reading in those few places where you don't want to get on line
<ali1234> !rpm
<lubotu3`> RPM is the RedHat Package Management system. Ubuntu uses !APT, not RPM. RPM packages are not supported (the package "alien" can allow installing them, but it's quite dangerous and unsupported)
<ali1234> learn how to use rpm if you want a fun time
<Darael> Bah, for a /really/ 'fun' time do LFS.
<ali1234> LFS? OBS!
 * hamitron finds MS Windows more "fun"
<hamitron> ;)
<Darael> ali1234: I'm not familiar with OBS - EXPN please?
<ali1234> try bootstrapping OBS. it makes LFS seem trivial
<ali1234> OBS is a build system
<Darael> Ah.
<ali1234> it can build an entire distro
<ali1234> it can use debs, or rpms
<ali1234> it can build debian, ubuntu, fedora, or opensuse
<ali1234> it is ridiculously hard to set up
<ali1234> about 6 people actually understand it
<ali1234> it functions kind of like a git repository in that you check out packages, modify them, and it keeps the changes
<ali1234> however, you can't just "clone" it
<ali1234> so you depend on someone else's server to do anything, unless you set up your own
<ali1234> which is when the fun starts
<ali1234> quite a powerful system, as long as you don't have to maintain the server side, which breaks constantly
<penguin42> OBS is the OpenSUSE one?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> still it's probably easier than setting up your own launchpad or CDBS
<scoundrel50a> I have a Lenovo laptop, running 11.10 and I was looking in the settings and noticed that in System Settings>System Info>Graphics it set to Experience>Standard....I know this graphics card can cope with more than standard, which was set when it was in beta....how can I change that.......
<ali1234> standard is... standard?
<ali1234> mine says standard too, i have everything enabled that you can enable
<scoundrel50a> oh ok, thanks.....I just thought that there would be more than just Standard
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-25
<scoundrel50a> how do you enable everything?
<scoundrel50a> is it through compiz?
<ali1234> it's enabled by default
<scoundrel50a> oh, ok.
<gordonjcp> "laptop will suspend very soon unless it is plugged in"
<gordonjcp> bet it doesn't
<ali1234> seriously i have no idea what that control panel thing is supposed to be
<penguin42> ali1234: pretty
<gordonjcp> nope
<gordonjcp> once again, it didn't suspend
<AlanBell> scoundrel50a: you can turn on more bling using ccsm
<AlanBell> but you will probably turn on crashes too, and maybe struggle to recover from them
<AlanBell> !ccsm
<lubotu3`> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' (or 'simple-ccsm' for pre-Oneiric). If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz
<AlanBell> here be dragons
<penguin42> some of them breath fire or wobble
<Darael> No, really, they do.  Wobbly Windows, the Burn effect, the Paint Fire on the Screen plugin...
<AlanBell> water
<AlanBell> night all o/
<scoundrel50a> sorry, was busy, I wont even open ccsm, last time I did, I lost the desktop
<scoundrel50a> I will leave it, its running ok, without changing things now
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<aeroplanez> Hello
<aeroplanez> good morning
<DJones> Morning all
<FND> good morning
<FND> anyone know when Thunderbird 8 is supposed to land?
<diplo> Morning all
<popey> FND: ask chrisccoulson
<FND> popey: thanks for pinging him for me ;)
<sagaci> if someone here is on oneiric or precise that has xchat installed, could you please check if the menu Settings > Advanced > "Dialogue Buttons", instead of Dialog Buttons
<sagaci> also check if your language is set to English (United Kingdom)
<popey> sagaci: xchat or xchat-gnome?
<sagaci> xchat vanilla
<popeytestingxcha> ah
<popey> sagaci: mine says dialog
<daubers> Morning
<popey> sagaci: where are you setting English (United Kingdom) ?
<danfish> lo
<popey> lo
<sagaci> I'd test it myself but language changing is broken at the moment in precise
<sagaci> language support
<sagaci> on precise, up to date
<zeem> I didn't even mean to come in here - it seems Ubuntu's Xchat is set to this server by default :-D
<popey> yeah, it is
<zeem> I'll hang around for a bit before I start work
<popey> hmm, lang support is installing extra stuff
<sagaci> it's just that the en_GB pot has been done upstream but hasn't changed in ubuntu yet (pot was done mid oneiric cycle)
<zeem> Got to go, someone just turned up
<popey> yup, still dialog buttons
<popey> o/ zeem
<popeytestingxcha> so this is what xchat looks like
<sagaci> no worries, I'll file a bug about it
<popeytestingxcha> I haven't used this for about 5 years
<imexil> Hi does any one have a clue why it takes so long to get the current TB 8.0 into the oneiric repo?
<bigcalm> Good early morning peeps :)
<popey> imexil: it was built only 12 hours ago by the look of it
<popey> probably a security issue holding it up, as happened with firefox 7.0
<popey> (we didnt ship firefox 7.0, we skipped it and went to 7.0.1)
<imexil> thanks popey for the info
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=oneiric
<popey> you can see it in that ppa
<popey> so I expect it will hit 11.10 soon
<FND> \o/
<FND> (normally I wouldn't care, but I figured I should give Lightning a try, which requires TB8)
<bigcalm> Thunderbirds and Lightning, very very frightening to meeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<FND> bigcalm: how so? I'd love to hear more about it (personally, I don't like that there's no standalone version anymore)
<popey> hahah
<popey> FND: think of Queen.
 * FND ponders
<popey> Sing what bigcalm said
<bigcalm> FND: you can ignore my sillyness this morning
<FND> I'm afraid I'm horrible with pop culture references
<bigcalm> Or too young?
<FND> that too
<FND> (in general that is, given that mentally I'm a grumpy old bastard)
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3`> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<popey> Hah, there's a lot of that here
<bigcalm> But we are many
<FND> is "bastard" considered an offensive word, bigcalm?
<imexil> you got to ask lubotu3` this
<imexil> ;)
<bigcalm> I'd be ok with it if you were talking about a metal file. But it is a term of abuse otherwise
<FND> uh huh
<AlanBell> happy Friday everyone
<MartijnVdS> black friday, as Americans call it
<popey>  _____     _     _
<popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _
<popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | |
<popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |
<popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, |
<popey>                          |___/
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: real Friday is FTW!
<gord> non monospace font :(
<FND> *gasp*!
<bigcalm> Ubuntu mono is the only font allowed
<gord> ubuntu mono is great, but i'm reading text here, 99.999% not formatted with spaces text - so it doesn't really make sense
<bigcalm> Ah
 * FND also prefers monospace for e-mail (plain-text, natch)
<FND> http://www.xkcd.com/276/
<willcooke> Does anyone one know anyone inside plus.net?  My broadband is playing up and the helpdesk guys don't understand
<MartijnVdS> "You, like, don't understand, man."
<AlanBell> willcooke: ask in the forums
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<AlanBell> willcooke: they have super support people monitoring them and responding
<willcooke> AlanBell, there's the rub.  My speed it about 500 bps, and they won't do anything until I've run a speed test on the BT web site.  But I can't run a test, because my speed is about 500 bps!
<AlanBell> willcooke: turn the fttc box off and on randomly
<AlanBell> then it will turn up on their little graph thing like this http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,97734.msg827919.html#msg827919
<popey> haha, excellent
<AlanBell> all they can see is resyncs happening and the box reauthenticating
<bigcalm> Nice
<willcooke> :)
<AlanBell> here is what I did for a month to stop the box overheating http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,97734.msg827516.html#msg827516
<AlanBell> but I had to keep stopping the fan to let the line drop, or they closed it as fixed!
<swat___> aha, i have figured out how to make my desktop more responsive!
<swat___> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq#What_is_swappiness_and_how_do_I_change_it.3F
<swat___> stop it swapping :)
<swat___> well, not stop - reduce
<awilkins> Grrargh, where are all the reasonably priced laptops that have a screen resolution that *isn't* 1366x768
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have this cheap 800x600 laptop...
<awilkins> The only thing with fewer vertical pixels is a netbook... I've not used a display that rubbish since the 16-bit era
<MartijnVdS> 640x480!
<awilkins> BBC Micro - 320x200, 160x256, etc
 * MartijnVdS had 720x348
<MartijnVdS> Hercules \o/
<popey> \o/ Hercules
<popey> 720x350 wasnt it?
<MartijnVdS> popey: dosbox does a good emulation of it :)
 * awilkins never owned a PC without a 3D accelerator of some kind (even if it was a discrete 3dfx card)
<MartijnVdS> 720x350 physically, but in "graphics mode" only 348 pixels were useable, because that's a multiple of 4
<popey> ahhh
<awilkins> I went round the laptop stall at Tesco looking at the display properties (it would be a disaster if they printed the resolution on the spec card, wouldn't it?) and they are all 1366x768
<awilkins> My first work laptop 10 years ago was 1600x1200
<oimon> bet that cost a few quid
<awilkins> I have no idea, it was provided by the office
<awilkins> But probably
<awilkins> But I'm prepared to bet it would cost more now. FLipping consumer display industry churning out bazillions of 1366x786 panels for seat back TV and the like
 * awilkins shakes his fist
<oimon> awilkins: wow, you're right. i can't even find display resolution on the tech specs area of the dell site
<awilkins> oimon, It's all "WXGA+" and similar crap now
<oimon> ah, they have it
<awilkins> oimon, I need to refer to the wikipedia page to find out what they mean
<oimon> 15.6â HD (1366x768) Anti-Glare LED
<oimon> 15.6â FHD (1920x1080) Anti-Glare LED
<oimon> decent looking laptop if you're not interested in bling: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-e5520/pd
<popey> every laptop I look at now looks rubbish compared to the MBP and thinkpad.
<popey> just looks
<popey> the two-tone colour I hate
<MartijnVdS> I like the looks of Vaios
 * FND has a ThinkPad T420 and is less than satisfied
<popey> the proliferation of ports
<MartijnVdS> except I've stopped buying Sony stuff
<popey> yeah, some of the sonys I saw a year or so back look nice
<awilkins> My memory of Thinkpads is that they are not at all stylish and they give off an aura of robust functionality
<awilkins> They would be on my list to consider for myself... this is for a "family" laptop as a family christmas pressie
<popey> at least they're all one colour âº
<FND> awilkins: all I can say of this T420 is that, even though I made sure to get a matte display, the screen is unusable with a bit of (indirect) sunlight
<gord> pfft the x220 thinkpad has like... a curvy bit. very stylish
<MartijnVdS> Thinkpads that aren't shaped like bricks?!
<MartijnVdS> </world>
<awilkins> Although I suppose the Thinkpad line is more likely to run Linux properly
<awilkins> (is this still true since IBM stopped owning them?)
<popey> yup
<FND> awilkins: I had trouble with 11.04 (probably due to Sandy Bridge), but the 3.x kernel seems to support it well enough
<FND> although battery life is "only" ~4.5h
<awilkins> My daughter, bless her, has already formed the impression that Windows is slow and rubbish and Linux is fast from having Windows XP and Ubuntu installed on her netbook
<gord> surely for a fair test you'd have to install a linux distro from 2001 ;)
<awilkins> Oh hell, it's "Black Friday"
<awilkins> Whee, 15% off on Lenovo
<popey> ooo
 * awilkins starts to warm up to Black Friday
<popey> where?
<awilkins> On lenovo.com
<FND> and so it begins - money corrupts people, QED
<awilkins> Great coupon code - CYBERWEEKEND15
<Laney> what is black friday?
<Laney> isn't that an american thing?
<Laney> huh, amazon.co.uk are doing it too
<awilkins> Yup, but retailers in the UK have decided to try it out this year to stoke up demand
<Laney> not going to say no to discounts
<awilkins> It's probably safer in the UK because we queue in a more orderly manner
<FND> hah
<oimon> amazon is recommending "Threads" TV series to me
<oimon> i remember my parents wouldn't let me watch that when i was 9
<awilkins> Whoa... a couple of the high-end T520 models are discounted by ludicrous amounts. They're still rather expensive for a family kick-about laptop though
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> Uh oh. Someone let Lennart out of his cage again.
<MartijnVdS> popey: Prepare for several flamewars :) http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-journal.html
<Laney> already happening
<Laney> also, google multiple sign in is irritatingâ¦ why can't it remember the account i used last?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: already happening?
<Laney> that journal business has been doing the rounds
<MarquessDeBonBon> What is "The Journal"?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: even a petition on change.org 8-)
<MarquessDeBonBon> I'm sure whatever it is, Canonical will find a way to use it to alienate users.
<Laney> lwn has an article on it
<daubers> urgh, is there a banshee ppa with a more stable version in it?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: subscribers only
<Laney> having one of those is worthwhile
<Laney> banshe 2.2.1 is in proposed
<Laney> +e
<MarquessDeBonBon> MartijnVdS, is there any semi-reliable ranking for Linux distro market share? Distrowatch doesn't fill me with confidence.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: no.
<Laney> and updates, but there is an extra patch in proposed
<MarquessDeBonBon> That's a shame.
<MartijnVdS> I have it
<MartijnVdS> and it doesn't crash anymore now
<MarquessDeBonBon> I take it user agent strings in Linux browsers don't contain distro info?
<daubers> Hmmm..... could enable proposed
<Laney> depends what your problem is
<MartijnVdS> But it still doesn't recognise MTP devices (different problem I know)
<Laney> there is also a daily ppa and an unstable ppa
<Laney> (some) mtp devices
<daubers> Laney: greying out when I load it and just hanging greyed out
<Laney> mine works
<daubers> Laney: Mine works sometimes :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: yeah âº
<daubers> No idea what it's hanging on
<daubers> if anyone can tell me how to suss that out I'll happily file bugs
<MartijnVdS> Laney: My Xoom and Galaxy Nexus don't
<Laney> banshee --debug --debug-addins --redirect-log
<daubers> Laney: Ta :) Will start firing it up with those
<Laney> pastebinit ~/.config/banshee-1/log
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> there was a guy from ubuntu-uk who started hacking on banshee some time ago and then disappeared
<Laney> wonder what happened there :(
<MartijnVdS> Laney: http://pastebin.com/bkpPGyXk
<MartijnVdS> Laney: it's not detected at all.. nothing happens in the log when I plug in my phone
<Laney> :(
<Laney> all i can suggest is to please file a bug
<MartijnVdS> Laney: there's a bug on gnome.org which claims it's a bug in gudev
<Laney> you can also look at a picture of my cat wearing a moustache https://p.twimg.com/Ae9uTkaCEAE0Dwq.jpg
<Laney> hth
<bigcalm> Awwww
<MartijnVdS> Laney: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=660681
<lubotu3`> Gnome bug 660681 in Device - MTP "MTP device detection fails with banshee-2.2" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<MartijnVdS> Laney: my bug looks like that
<DJones> Laney: What did you use to drug the cat to get it to stay still long enough for the photo
<Laney> my sister did it
<Laney> he sleeps like a log
<Laney> 98% of the time (the other 2% are split between eating and making a racket)
<daubers> \o/ crash it goes
<daubers> http://paste.ubuntu.com/749140/
<daubers> Hmm.. not very helpful
 * daubers tries it sans galaxy S II
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning
<danfish> hello again all
<awilkins> Morning, danfish
<danfish> awilkins: how's Leeds these days?
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<danfish> I've got bits and bobs of (rubbish) code and equally rubbish PCB designs lying around on a number of machines etc
<danfish> how best to synchronise and version control?
<danfish> I suppose it's bzr vs git
<awilkins> I like both
<gord> depends if you really need version control, if its not something your maintaining, you could just throw it in u1/dropbox
<gord> which would be a much much simpler solution
<gord> i keep bash scripts i use in u1 for example
<awilkins> Yeah, there is that
<awilkins> I currently use Dropbox over U1 purely because the proxy support in U1 doesn't satisfy me on Windows or Ubuntu
<awilkins> Dropbox's proxy support isn't up to scratch either, but at least you can use it behind a proxy
<popey> android users.. if you had an app installed and know the name but cant be bothered scrolling, is there a quick search like the unity dash to find stuff?
<gord> not that i know of, is a pain
<DJones> I can't find a way either
<AlanBell> always been surprised at how rubbish searching is on Google's operating system
<bigcalm> popey: no
<popey> thats odd
<AlanBell> marketplace search is a bit rubbish too
<popey> do the vendors add on frontends which let you do it?
<DJones> Not on HTC that I know of
<bigcalm> No idea. Though I'm not sure I'd have enough apps installed for it to be quicker to search by name than a quick flick of my thumb
<awilkins> I think I may just have to accept that laptop manufacturers don't want me to have a screen with a resolution above 1366x768
<oimon> adnroid market started telling me i have updates available for apps on different accounts - really annoying
<awilkins> Gits
<danfish> awilkins: gord : tx - it's gonna be experimentation time
<oimon> awilkins: did you see the machine i posted a link to?
<oimon> that had higher resol
<awilkins> oimon, the dell?
<oimon> ye[p
<oimon> there's plenty around
<DJones> awilkins: I got a HP with 1600*900
<oimon> just not the acer Â£300 ones
<popey> 13
<DJones> awilkins: Not sure what size you're looking for though
<popey> bah
<gord> gamer laptops do a bunch of higher res screens, but you won't get more than 5 minutes battery life ;)
<awilkins> Lenovo don't have anything without a 1366x768 display below Â£800 base price...
<awilkins> Naah, just a "lap" laptop
<awilkins> Family use
<awilkins> I suspect the fixation on screen resolution is misplaced
<gord> i use unity so 768 is fine for me :P
<awilkins> Hah, I like the way that Dell "Premium Panel Guarantee" only covers pixels stuck on
<DJones> awilkins: I got this about 6 months ago, although the i3 version http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084791/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice%2C+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/c_2/2%7C14418968%7CLaptops+and+netbooks%7C14419039.htm#pdpFullProductInformation
<awilkins> Woo
<awilkins> Enormous
<awilkins> 1600x900 ... not bad, not ideal, but not bad
<DJones> This is the one I got http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5084849/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice%2C+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/c_2/2%7C14418968%7CLaptops+and+netbooks%7C14419039.htm But seems to be discontinued now
<awilkins> I guess you can't get a 4:3 panel at say 1600x1200 anymore....
<DJones> I looked for something that sort of size, but didn't find anything
<AlanBell> awilkins: "widescreen" should really be called "shortscreen"
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: lol
<awilkins> AlanBell, Yeah, where are the panel makers serving the programmer market with high vertical pixel couns
<danfish> AlanBell: agreed - it's bit daft IMO to advertise a laptop as being widescreen and 'HD ready' when most users are probably going to use them to watch movies for <5% of time
<awilkins> DJones, do you not just hate chiclet keys though?
<Myrtti> train chochoooooo
<DJones> awilkins: Mine has a normal keyboard, not come across one of those
<Myrtti> free wifi woo
<awilkins> DJones, There's one of those i3 models within 10 minutes drive
 * AlanBell has a 2048x1152 screen that rotates 90 degrees :)
<awilkins> DJones, Bless the Argos stock checker
<DJones> awilkins: Mine works fine with Ubuntu 11.10, only oddity is the screen brightness is set to minimum at boot & has to be reset
<awilkins> DJones, So the shots on the website are not accurate? They seem to be using the same G Series photo for all of them...
<DJones> What do you mean by chiclet keyboard, I would describe my keyboard as a normal one
<awilkins> DJones, The ones where the keys look like chiclet gum - square with rounded corners, and the edges drop straight off and are not chamfered - flat tops
<awilkins> Like a Macbook
<awilkins> Whereas I call a normal keyboard one where the keytops are convex, they have sloping sides - like a desktop keyboard but a bit shorter
<DJones> Possibly then, I find the keyboard quite good though
<oimon> i prefer chiclet keys to the thin laptop keys that scrape against the side of your finger a la eee pc or dell keyboards
<DJones> awilkins: Might just be worth calling in there and asking if you can look at it before you think about buying it
<awilkins> DJones, Yeah, or looking at one in Tesco - I think I saw one on display (may be mistaken, all the panels in there were 1366x768)
<awilkins> But I think over 900 pixels high is too much to ask on the planned budget
<DJones> awilkins: My priority was screen size & that seemed about the best for price/specification I could find
<DJones> I'd never been a fan of HP before, but I've been happy with what I got
<awilkins> We have HP units at work and in general I'm happier with them than Dell ones
<DJones> And it plays minecraft without a dedicated nvidia/ATI graphics card so it does what I want
<awilkins> The one I have has survived 4 years which is a feat given the thrashing that I give it combined with the extra load that ICT install on it
<awilkins> Evie likes Minecraft
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> Do you think the size of it would overwhelm a 7 year old :-) ?
<awilkins> I suspect table-top would be the best way to go for that purpose
<DJones> It is quite heavy
<awilkins> She's got an NC-10 but the screen is broken ; need to get the parts and fix it
<awilkins> And it's a bit underpowered for some of the things she wants
<DJones> But I normally have it either on a desk or on my lap when I'm sat on a  recliner
<awilkins> It's a nice little sofa-browser
<bigcalm> I thought I'd use my tablet for sofa-browsing, but I still appear to use my phone as it's always on
<awilkins> One little gripe about modern laptops - which genius thought it was a good idea to mount the trackpad closer to the left side of the case than the right?
<oimon> it's under the keyboard
<awilkins> I can see it's probably the result of the keyboard and trackpad chassis being re-used from prior models when they nail on a numpad
<awilkins> But really, "yes, I just _love_ to reach across my centre line to use the trackpad"
<oimon> it's in the centre of where your hands would be, (where the qwertyuiop is)
<awilkins> Hmm.
<awilkins> Ok. Maybe I've just not used one. I'm just revulsed by the off-centre-ish-ness
<awilkins> DJones, I think that G72 has me sold, TBH.
<awilkins> DJones, Esp since I can get the i3 version and pick it up today
<awilkins> I don't get how they get away with calling it "super slim and lightweight" in the blurb though.. 3Kg and quite fat, from what I can see
<daubers> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<daubers> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/25/ofcom_customer_satisfaction_report/
<daubers> VM come bottom or 2nd bottom of satisfaction, but they come out with a statement saying " our broadband customers remain amongst the most satisfied in the market."
<daubers> Me thinks they don't seem to be looking at the numbers
<awilkins> That reminds me, must pester them to upgrade my bandwidth and downgrade my price
<awilkins> Their !!"%&!"^ web app wouldn't change my package and the last time I rang India they changed my name from "Adrian" to "Andrew".
<awilkins> I'm happy with the service - but all I demand is that my connection doesn't drop. It does slow down a bit in the evening.
<DJones> awilkins: Hope I haven't pointed you in the wrong direction with the laptop :)
<awilkins> DJones, No responsibility implied...
<awilkins> DJones, Consumer grade laptops are probably never going to satisfy me entirely, but I'm not going to shell out for a high grade workstation laptop for my family to pound on while watching strictly :-)
<gord> really wish websites wouldn't list the size of things in "real" measurements like mm. just say "its as big as three cd cases!" or something else i know the size of!
<awilkins> DJones, I like that the Argos reviews reveal the general demographic of the reviewer - like "45 to 54, female"
<awilkins> DJones, You can get a sense of what their needs are and the review is more in context
<popey> away lunch
<bigcalm> Oo, now there's an idea
<awilkins> gord, or have the product shots taken with Ronnie Corbett, ermmm, some average sized celebrity, and Arnold Schwartzenegger.
<gord> +amillion
<gord> amazon should be smart though, they know everything i bought from them already, just show the size of something i already bought and the product size in comparison
<awilkins> That's not bad
<DJones> awilkins: I've never noticed that about the demographics
<oimon> started getting awful recommendations from amazon since buying gift certfs
<oimon> luckily you can disable recommendations for particular items
<awilkins> oimon, "Would you like to buy Farmville Cash? Just as good as real cash - after it's accidentally dropped into a volcano!"
<awilkins> Hmmph, Thunderbird needs to cope better with gmail labels vs folders
<awilkins> You search, it returns each email from every label it occurs in
<bigcalm> How are they not working for you?
<bigcalm> Ah
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: thunderbird doesn't cope with the "gmail-style" of emailing very well
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: no "Send and Archive" button :(
<gordonjcp> thunderbird is generally pretty awful
<gordonjcp> in ubuntu it's utterly unusable
<Darael> That's not my experience at all.
<gordonjcp> the tabs thing is stupid
<gordonjcp> I've never figured out what the orange scrolly thing at the bottom is for
<gordonjcp> it's just an annoying pointless distraction, as far as I can see
<DJones> I just turned the tabs off
<DJones> Have things open in a new window
<gord> i use the conversation addon
<gord> basically turns it in to gmail
<gordonjcp> also, is there a way to get it to ignore mail in certain folders?
<gordonjcp> nothing pisses me off more than having its earsplittingly loud "new mail" sound blast through my speakers and wake half the town, only to find that it's decided to tell me that some more spam has arrived
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: there is an option to only do it for the inbox
<AlanBell> then if your filters are the bypass the inbox type they won't trigger it
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: but then surely that would pick up subfolders of the inbox
<AlanBell> no idea
<AlanBell> never has it occurred to me that it would be possible to create a subfolder of inbox
<DJones> gordonjcp: Thunderbird has a new mail sound? I must have that turned off, not something I've ever heard
<davmor2> DJones: I'm with you I've never heard it but then I filter mine to hell and back
<DJones> I don't have any filtering on mine
<gordonjcp> DJones: I keep turning it off
<gordonjcp> DJones: but it keeps coming back
<DJones> gordonjcp: Must be some difference between yours & my setups, I've never had any sound from thunderbird
<davmor2> gordonjcp: I get to things from Thunderbird the annoying login drums when I get the confirmation window cause I really do want to read new mail in another folder and 100% CPU Usage when importing mail first time
<les_h> hello, i'm wondering how i can tell what driver i'm using for my mouse?
<MartijnVdS> les_h: there is only one?
<MartijnVdS> les_h: why do you want to know this?
<les_h> i have a lenovo tablet and it's got a nipple, a touchpad and a touch screen.
<les_h> My problem is that the touchpad has a conflict with gnome
<les_h> so it works fine in unity or xfce
<les_h> but in gone, after a few minutes, it stops responding
<awilkins> Laptop : Comes in a BIIIG black box
<les_h>  MartijnVds I'm trying to figure out why my touchpad is conflicting with something in gnome
<popey> what makes you think its 'confliting' ?
<les_h> popey: when i start gnome, the touchpad works fine, but after a few minutes, around the time the task bar thing at the bottom gets around to launching, it quits working. it works fine with unity
<les_h> popey: this makes me think that one of the gnome apps is killing the touchpad and i'm trying to figure out which one
<popey> what version of ubuntu?
<les_h> oneiric
<popey> ah, so you're using GNOME Shell?
<les_h> sorry oeniric with ubuntu studio
<les_h> yes, i installed gnome 3 and i prefer it, except for this issue
<popey> you mean GNOME Shell.. I can't help, sorry, never used it
<les_h> is the window manager thing called a shell?  This is my first time back on linux since i left slackware for mac in 2001
<popey> the GNOME one is called GNOME Shell, there are others, Unity, XFCE ...
<popey> I thought Ubuntu Studio used XFCE
<dogmatic69> a shell is generally a terminal, right?
<popey> no
<popey> 'generally' a shell is a wrapper around other things
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> ok
<popey> an interface between you and the computer
<dogmatic69> ah
<les_h> ubuntu studio does use xfce, which is awful. i felt like i had been exiled to windows 95
<dogmatic69> so by that definition i guess gnome is a shell
<les_h> a friend of mine suggested that a good place to start would be to check that i was using the drivers made specififcally for my touchpad, rather than generic ones
<popey> dogmatic69: no, GNOME is a project and a foundation
<les_h> but, alas, i'm not sure how to discover if this is the case
<popey> les_h: i think thats a red herring
<les_h> would counsel messages or something possibly provide a clue?
<popey> i dont actually understand what your issue is les_h, perhaps you could describe whats happening
<les_h> when i log in with the gnome shell, my touchpad works normally for a bit and then starts to stutter and then eventually ceases to work at all.
<les_h> so within about 5 minutes, it stops working to move the mouse pointer or to scroll.
<les_h> the other pointing devices on the computer still work
<popey> I'd look at /var/log/syslog
<popey> see if there are errors
<les_h> ah, thanks for the suggestion!  there's a command tail -f or something that will print that out as it happens?
<MartijnVdS> ~/.xsession-errors as well
<MartijnVdS> try "xinput -list"
<MartijnVdS> before and after it stops working
<MartijnVdS> xinput list --long for even more infoz
<Darael> "tail -f" for printing as it happens is correct - tail -f /path/to/file will print the last ten lines of the file, followed by any more that get appended until it's interrupted.
<j0nr> Don't suppose any body has swapped from SKY to Virgin? Have opinions?
<popey> j0nr: i did
<les_h> ah, thanks for your help.  i'm going to login in gnome shell in a moment and try this out
<popey> j0nr: do you want to know about tv or broadband or what?
<awilkins> j0nr, Not swapped from Sky, but have been a Virgin customer for 10 years or so
 * siriusly is a long-time VirginMedia customer and before that Telewest and before that Cable & Wireless going back to 1996...so there! ;)
<siriusly> oh and before that Nynex! lol
<awilkins> siriusly, Yeah, I was an NTL customer once
<j0nr> popey: Well I obviously like the idea of the broadband, as SKY don't seem to be in a hurry to move to fibre-optic.
<j0nr> Just not sure whether the choice of channels is as good...
<awilkins> I don't watch the TV - I don't even have an STB. Still pay for the basic TV package though, because it works out the same bundling cost (and I used to have it)
<j0nr> The boxes seem better? I currently have a SKY+ HD box, which, well, seems a bit buggy sometimes, or at least not very clever and certainly seems to randomnly delete saved programs
<popey> j0nr: I have the Samsung HD V+ Box
<popey> the Sky UI is better than the Virgin one
<j0nr> popey: Is that the TiVo one?
<les_h> ..... of course, now that i'm looking for the problem, it's not happening.....
<awilkins> I have more than enough content to push through my eyeballs with the internet and 3 freeview tuners in my MythTV box
<popey> however there is a new Virgin Tivo box which is ever nicer
<popey> j0nr: i might switch to the tivo box, not decided
<j0nr> popey: ah, thats the carrot on the end of the stick in my face :)
<j0nr> plus they are offering a second HD box (non-tivo) for another room
<popey> I am on 30/3 broadband
 * awilkins has a MythTV box which is probably bigger, noisier, less slick, but does have 1TB of storage and is totally uner my control
<j0nr> popey: is that fibre-optic?
<popey> its cable
<MartijnVdS> but is it a fibre-optic cable? :P
<j0nr> popey: so is there cable and fibre optioc available?
<awilkins> It's a copper cable
<awilkins> It's fibre to the local node
<popey> I'm sure fibre is involved somewhere but it's a piece of cable to my house
<siriusly> I dont watch enough tv to comment on packages but I do have the L for Large tier which is good enough for me....the problem I find with so many channels is that they are in an endless loop of repeats
<popey> a copper cable
<awilkins> It's a *fatter* copper cable than the phone line
<popey> i place no significance in the type of cable
<awilkins> So you can squeeze more bits down it
<j0nr> so is all this fibre optic just a little bit of marketting bumpf?
<popey> the question is how many bits can go down it at once
<awilkins> j0nr, It's fibre optic to the local node
<penguin42> j0nr: Yep
<popey> and I've been told my area is getting 100Mb cable soon
<j0nr> popey: that sounds good
 * penguin42 complained to advertising standards a few years ago and they gave me the brush off
<siriusly> doesn't the fibre optic only go as far as the street cabinet?
<awilkins> Yeah, the 100MB is solely down to newer hardware for squeezing more out of copper cable
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1608418806.png
<popey> thats what I currently get
<j0nr> i like SKY, the TV channels are good, I would have to pay on top of VM TV XL to get the Sky packages (Movies HD)
<awilkins> oOh, bigger bundle
<awilkins> I'm on the 10Mbit/s down, 1Mbit/s up
<popey> i dont subscribe to movie channels
<popey> I just pay on demand when I want a film
<popey> and it starts instantly
<j0nr> popey: yeah I saw they offer a lot...are you doing that via your virgin box?
<popey> unlike my old sky box where I had to wait up to 30 mins on some random channel number
<popey> yes
<popey> V+ box does Iplayer, ITV and C4 catch up too
<j0nr> popey: yeah thats another plus
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611945327.png popey has got a bigger broadband than me :(
<popey> you can go back and watch whole seasons of stuff with no adverts
<popey> and yours really _is_ fibre!
<siriusly> I am on 20 megs BB and 20megs is what I generally get...none of this "up to" business
<CraigMason> chaps, a quick Q... one of our machines wont allow us to edit network connections
<j0nr> hmm, my work is surprisingly slow... http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611947863.png
<CraigMason> the adapter doesn't appear in /etc/network/interfaces either
<siriusly> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1611948464.png
<j0nr> popey: whole season from where? Sky Anytime is pretty crap I have found,
<popey> what do you mean from where
<j0nr> popey: is it a service VM are providing on the box?
<popey> yes
<j0nr> that's pretty cool
<popey> j0nr: e.g. I watched 3 seasons of The Inbetweeners on 4OD on the Virgin box, no adverts
<j0nr> popey: that IS good.
<DJones> j0nr: Do you use the Sky Anytime+ service, how well does that work
<j0nr> now I am very tempted...
<j0nr> DJones: not very often really. everytime I have thought to look for something I have missed, it never seems to be on there
<j0nr> DJones: but there is a lot of something on there
<j0nr> movies are quite plentiful
<j0nr> but you couldnt catch up on a whole series (I don't think)
<j0nr> popey: do VM do the +1 channels?
<popey> yes
<popey> and HD
<DJones> I'm debating whether to connect my sky box up to the router, its not as if it will cost anymore
<j0nr> although that's not such a problem, we were told you can record 3 and watch a 4th
<popey> dunno how many you can record
<j0nr> DJones: cant remember if I had to pay extra for Anytime+
<popey> if I was going for Vigrin now, I'd get Tivo
<DJones> j0nr: Supposed to be free anyway
<bigcalm> TiVo can record 3 watch 1
<bigcalm> V+ can record 2 watch 1
<j0nr> well they are offering me free installation, free tivo box, free second hd box for another room, plus BB (not sure on speed or bandwidth limit), plus the XL package
<popey> sweet
<j0nr> but tied into 18 month contract
<popey> time flies âº
<bigcalm> How much?
<bigcalm> It will
<bigcalm> I expect you'll get 30mb bb
<penguin42> j0nr: They sound desperate; have you tried asking them for gold bricks, and 'special services' ?
<j0nr> penguin42: I guess they are targetting SKY customers. I get offers through the post almost weekly
<j0nr> bigcalm: think thats about 77 / month
<j0nr> plus telephone
<penguin42> j0nr: They bug me about twice a year; I used to be an NTL customer ~10 years ago
<awilkins> "I want a pizza button. Whenever I push it, a 12" sausage with onions  pizza should turn up within 90 seconds"
<j0nr> popey: do you have a bandwidth limit?
<bigcalm> popey: that's our package level then
<popey> yup
<popey> same as what I have
<popey> but I dont have tivo
<popey> because I got mine 18 months ago
 * popey phones VM
<awilkins> j0nr, What they do on the lower tiers, is there is a limit past which they will throttle your connection to 25% speed during peak hours
<awilkins> j0nr, The highest tiers have no limits
<bigcalm> popey: let me know if you can get TiVo for free ;)
<awilkins> j0nr, It's not a limit, per se, it's a "calm down, calm down!!!"
<j0nr> ok, I am very tempted
<siriusly> bigcalm : http://shop.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management/traffic-management-policy.html
<j0nr> awilkins: cool. As long as they don't cut you off or bill you per mb over
<popey> no
<popey> it just slows down a bit
<bigcalm> siriusly: why are you telling me that url?
<awilkins> j0nr, Like all providers I'm sure they reserve the right to cut you off, but never heard of it happening
<popey> I've never had any snotty mails or anything
<awilkins> j0nr, It does make me a bit careful about downloading between 1000 and 2100 but other than that it's not bad at all compared to a hard limit
<bigcalm> Neither have I. Most connection issues happen during the day time. So it you're out of the house during the day, that won't be a problem for you
<awilkins> You do think "Yay, new game... oh, if I download it now, it will pop my limit and take much longer"
<Daviey> awilkins: I got cut off by my previous ISP, without notice :/
<siriusly> bigcalm: sorry that should have been for j0nr
<Daviey> (or warning)
 * awilkins is not a big torrentor
 * Daviey neither
<popey> awilkins: i never think that
<awilkins> popey, You have the 30Mbit package
<awilkins> The limits are rather more generous
<awilkins> For me it's 1500MB between 1000 and 1500 and 750MB between 1600 and 2100
<bigcalm> 30mb is the standard
<bigcalm> I thought
<davmor2> Daviey: did you demand an explanation and then sue them for being in breach of their agreement
<awilkins> I've been on it for a long time ; I suppose they don't offer my package anymore... I should ring up and get changed
<siriusly> VM have six BB tiers ranging from S 2Mb to XXL 50Mb
<popey> awilkins: i download a lot, i backup remote servers
<popey> and grab ISOs etc
<Daviey> davmor2: yeah, i'll get right on that.
<dogmatic69> omg
<siriusly> I believe 100MB will become available soon
<awilkins> popey, That 10GB allocation would seem to be enough
<dogmatic69> copy something to clipboard and middle click the + tab button on chrome
<dogmatic69> instant search
<davmor2> Daviey: this is why they get away with it
<Daviey> davmor2: I did plan to, but when it came to it - i really couldn't be bothered. :)
<davmor2> Daviey: haha
<AlanBell> nice tip dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> figured it out completely by accident
<dogmatic69> also if you have many chrome windows open, middle click the bar at the top (not sure what its called)  and it switches windows
<dogmatic69> 'system title bar' but chromes minimal version one
<dogmatic69> could be ubuntu doing that though
<gordonjcp> is there a way to stop the annoying message popups in the top right?
<popey> gordonjcp: sudo apt-get remove notify-osd
<gordonjcp> I don't really see what the thinking is behind them anyway
<gordonjcp> popey: righto
<popey> when I am listening to music I get a popup as the track changes so I know what it is, i like that
<popey> i hate it when tweets appear, I am never fast enough to read them â¹
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you ok ?
<gordonjcp> yeah, but you can't click on them to make the thing that just did something appear
<gordonjcp> which would make sense
<gordonjcp> and when empathy pops up a message you can't click on them to reply
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya me olwd mucka
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: it would, but it they are totally designed not to do that
<gordonjcp> you just have to wait for ten seconds until they go away so you've got control back, and then find the thing in the mac doc
<gordonjcp> *dock
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah
<AlanBell> you shouldn't have to wait for them to go though, they should fade if you mouse over and you can click stuff under them
<gord> i actually hate the music track changes but love tweets in notify form :P
<j0nr> popey: when you pay for a film on demand, can you keep it on your box as long as you want?
<popey> no
<popey> you're renting it for 48 hours or something
<popey> I watched Tron Legacy 3 times when I rented it :D
<j0nr> ah loved that film, got it on Blu-Ray
<gord> silly movie, didn't make sense :P
<gord> fun to look at though
<davmor2> gord: It's a film it's not meant to make sense :P
<awilkins> My favourite scene is the bit where Jeff saves the day at the comms tower
<awilkins> I love self-sacrifice, honour, and duty. Makes me choke up.
<bigcalm> I've yet to watch the film
<bigcalm> We have it on blu-ray, must find time
<awilkins> My favourite bit of Armageddon is where Bruce pushes the button
<bigcalm> I fell asleep in Armageddon - in the cinema :(
<awilkins> Women think men are unromantic - we just have a different kind of romance that doesn't involve flowers
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/UK-government-lays-out-cyber-security-plans-1385358.html
<AlanBell> good stuff czajkowski, but not my area
<czajkowski> aye not mine either but nice to see their taking the finger out
 * davmor2 gave up watching films at the cinema I like to be able to hear the following day oh and the head ache really sucks
<AlanBell> indeed
<czajkowski> there was no cinema in aldershot :(
<czajkowski> in dublin I used to have a cinama card, 20 euros a month and unlimated usage, myself and the sister would head there over the weeend for 2-3 films
<czajkowski> most weekends
<danfish> czajkowski: by the time that cyber-security stuff gets implemented it will be watered down to involve a part-time intern and a 2005 copy of norton antivirus ;)
<danfish> but still cost gazillions
<danfish> how many millions to a gazillion I wonder?
<AlanBell> a squillion I think
<danfish> :)
<RJAHILL> Hi All. I'm supporting ~450 lucid machines in a few schools and have just found a .desktop file and icon for the delightfully named 'pornview' . I'm going to get rid of it before the students become aware of an app with that name. Is there anything else I should be looking for?
<bigcalm> Pornview strikes again!
<bigcalm> It's actually a very good image viewer
<MartijnVdS> RJAHILL: don't install the package?
<AlanBell> ugh /o\ that app
<dogmatic69> apt-get remove pornview?
<awilkins> Hah, yes, it just seems like it's a useful media brower... shame about the name
<awilkins> THe developer probably has no wife
<RJAHILL> it's not installed - trying to run it suggests I install it, but somehow the  desktop shortcut and png icon file are there
<dogmatic69> maybe it was installed and then removed
<dogmatic69> some left overs
<awilkins> You could always do a `locate` on the machine concerned to look for any other remnants
<RJAHILL> I created the image from a default NBR installer, so I expect it's in the NBR image
<RJAHILL> a locate only shows the .desktop and the icon
<awilkins> NBR?
<RJAHILL> NetBook Remix
<RJAHILL> So I'm going to have a look through to see if I can spot anything else dodgy, but that's a lot of files to wade through and wondered if anybody else had already done this
<awilkins> I'm surprised that those files are present...
<AlanBell> it can pop up in the applications lens in that daft "stuff you don't want" section down the bottom
<dogmatic69> sudo find / -name pornview
<AlanBell> RJAHILL: one thing that sometimes happens in schools is the URLs to .deb files for the perfectly innocent libraries liboobs and libsexy get blocked
<RJAHILL> Thanks for the tip Alan. We've got our own repo which is a proxy exception. I've just fond that the same pornview files appear on my 11.10 machine
<james_w> it's there so that it can be offered for install in software-center
<AlanBell> "its not mine baby, totally not my bag" ~Austin Powers
<bigcalm> Hehe
<RJAHILL> ah, ok.Do you know if I am I likely to break anything by removing it?
<james_w> it won't
<AlanBell> the only thing you could break is pornview. Go for it.
<james_w> but it will come back
<dogmatic69> lol
<RJAHILL> the porn that wouldn't die
<james_w> you'll have to remove app-install-data
<james_w> then software-center won't work, but you probably don't care about that?
<Laney> is the problem with the word 'porn'?
<RJAHILL> We haven't given the kids the admin password, so no I don't mind the software centre not working
<james_w> in fact it will remove software-center too
<dogmatic69> Laney: guess he does not want kids going home and telling the parents about a great new image viewer they found
<RJAHILL> @Laney: Kind off. It's all about keeping them on topic and not giggling about porn. Or gimp
<AlanBell> Laney: it is the daily mail headlines about the school that gives porn apps to kids
<czajkowski> RJAHILL: I can see how porn would start giggling, but gimp ?
<RJAHILL> It's mostly the teachers that laugh at gimp (see Pulp Fiction for more details)
<czajkowski> RJAHILL: if teachers start then sure students will to.
<awilkins> I'm chuffed that you've got 450 Ubuntu machines in a school
<cliftonts> same, that sounds like real progress
<Laney> I really doubt that worring about a file named pornview.desktop buried deep inside the filesystem is a problem, but if it is then I'd just remove s-c and therefore app-install-data indeed.
<RJAHILL> thanks. It's a scheme the schools are doing to get the computers to pupils ration down to 1:1
<AlanBell> RJAHILL: where is that?
<RJAHILL> so they're not just staying in school, they go home with them too
<RJAHILL> I work for the commercial supplier to the LEA, so we're going to bring it to their attention and get a steer off them
<AlanBell> which LEA?
<RJAHILL> I'm going to keep quiet on that one, for the moment as I haven't asked them if they mind me telling people - It's in the west midlands
<AlanBell> ok, region is fine, I was wondering if it was a london one or not
<AlanBell> west Midlands isn't one I know about, so that is cool
<aeroplanez> I got my new watch today finally
<cliftonts> I'm from the west midlands, got dragged down to london by my parents years ago
<aeroplanez> been thinking about buying it for few months now and last week I decided to spoil myself for xmas
<cliftonts> I keep seeing good things up there
<aeroplanez> check it out
<aeroplanez> http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2566/asdasdwd.jpg
<aeroplanez> http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2980/werwerc.jpg
<oimon> you can't fool me with goatse images
<gord> apparently HMV uses ubuntu :) http://i.imgur.com/3OXcj.jpg
<MartijnVdS> nah Nintendo does
<cliftonts> cool
<RJAHILL> The LEA here is really pro-IT and they like to see what else exists other than microsoft. The kids don't care as long as the apps/web sites they want to use work
<AlanBell> gord: that will be the new BSOD spotting meme
<AlanBell> RJAHILL: should the LoCo team put on events for the staff in your area? training and such?
<cliftonts> that's the point though RJAHILL, the kids aren't set in their ways like the general public
<RJAHILL> We've got some ex-teachers who work here who are going to put some training on for the staff, but I need to get them up to speed on things first
<RJAHILL> And then we're going to try to get some sort of community set up on the LEAs web portal for staff/students/parents with ubuntu machines
<AlanBell> ok, cool
<AlanBell> RJAHILL: want any CDs?
<RJAHILL> What's on them?
<AlanBell> official Ubuntu 11.10 CDs
<czajkowski> could be nice to give to students
<cliftonts> you love dishing out those CDs don't you Alan?
<AlanBell> I hold the UK team stock of them
<AlanBell> I do!
<RJAHILL> No thanks, we're on Lucid at the moment
<Seeker`> he's probably just trying to get some more space back in his house :P
<cliftonts> I will be taking you up on your offer soon
<AlanBell> want to get them all out there before precise comes out
<cliftonts> good plan
<czajkowski> cliftonts: some teams dont get them
<czajkowski> it's nice to offer them rather than not get any :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: does a really good job of getting them to folks
<DJones> AlanBell: Are they government expenditure, if you've not used them all by the end of financial year/release date, you don't get as many next time round
<cliftonts> well I'm all ready to launch on Sunday, got the website stocked and the computer fair booked
<cliftonts> so wish me luck"
<AlanBell> good luck cliftonts  :)
<cliftonts> if things go well I'll have no CDs left at the end of it
<RJAHILL> AlanBell: the machines in the main are netbooks with 10" screens. The lucid netbook remix is perfect for them. I don't want to think about what happens when Lucid is out of support
<ali1234> what computer fair you going to?
<ali1234> (s)
<czajkowski> RJAHILL: you mean in april ;)
<cliftonts> Tolworth
<oimon> lucid is LTS..lasts longer than 12.04
<cliftonts> but I'll also be at Bristol and Bracknell as well as others
<RJAHILL> czajkowski:2013!
<czajkowski> ah was saying next LTS
<czajkowski> yeha you've support for another year after that
<oimon> i thought they announcned extended support for LTS to 5yr?
<RJAHILL> That's for pangolin I think
<ali1234> i thought it was already 5 year?
<cliftonts> they did
<cliftonts> server support was 5 yr, desktop 3
<AlanBell> in theory
<cliftonts> theory?
<AlanBell> the repository isnt split
<AlanBell> no clear definition of what is a server package
<cliftonts> well that was the announcement as I understand it. I haven't looked into the rocket science behind it
<AlanBell> yes the announcement was 5 years officially for the desktop
<cliftonts> Urgh! I've just found Windows 98 on one of my disks. I feel so dirty!
<Seeker`> why?
<cliftonts> I haven't used windows by choice for about 5 years
<cliftonts> but I'm going through all the kit I've got lying around to prepare it for the computer fair, wiping disks etc
<cliftonts> I thought the only windows install I had was on this machine, only to be used when I DJ
<ali1234> AlanBell: there is a clear definition of how long a package is supported, from that you can infer what the package is...
<cliftonts> There we go, format to EXT4. That's better
<Daviey> AlanBell: there is some intentional fuzziness.
<AlanBell> ali1234: where?
<ali1234> one of the fields on the package info
<AlanBell> interesting
<Daviey> AlanBell: http://pb.daviey.com/cygI/ is a reasonable reference for main stuff, but some crucial stuff which people use will also recieve some love.
<AlanBell> no openoffice-headless then :)
<cliftonts> I never realised how many knackered hard drives I've been hoarding until today
<gord> i have a closet of no return, where i put computer equipment that i might have a use for some day, but never do
<Daviey> AlanBell: don't quote the list, it's only an indication :)
<cliftonts> gord, in that case I have a living room, spare bedroom loft and hallway of no return!
<ali1234> AlanBell: apt-cache show <package> | grep Supported
<cliftonts> I started clearing out then ran out of time and it's all sat there half way out of the house for ages
<AlanBell> thanks ali1234
<Daviey> ali1234: That isn't exactly safe TBH, at current.
<ali1234> why?
<cliftonts> Anyone here know much about hard disk health?
<Daviey> ali1234: That is an indicator, but for some things, will exceed that.
<Daviey> Universe packages also do not include the Supported field, but some are kinda supported.
<Darael> !anyone | cliftonts
<lubotu3`> cliftonts: A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<ali1234> kinda?
<ali1234> should set the field to "kinda" then
<Seeker`> cliftonts: meh, no reason to feel 'dirty', considering that linux wasn' particularly user friendly in 2004, I don't know what the state of *nix was in 1998
<cliftonts> if a hard disk sounds like it has a bunch of marbles rolling around inside it when it accesses and everything stalls while this is happening yet SMART and fsck insist it's healthy why can't they detect a problem?
<ali1234> because there isn't one
<ali1234> some hard drives are just loud, go figure...
<cliftonts> Seeker, we've finally reached a point where I have no need for legacy windows installs
<Darael> The "everything stalls" bit rather conflicts with that analysis, ali1234.
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> ubuntu stalls on any hard drive activity
<ali1234> this bug is a couple of years old
<Seeker`> cliftonts: :) glad to hear it :P Still no need to feel dirty for having old windows isntalls lying around
<cliftonts> ali1234, any drive which goes klunk, klunk, klunk for 5 minutes before it will do anything must surely be dying
<ali1234> you're probably only noticing the connection because the drive is so loud
<Seeker`> if you think the drive is dying, back it up and replace it
<ali1234> that sounds like thermal recalibration
<cliftonts> no ali, I'm noticing the connection because the drive isn't reading data for considerable time after the request
<cliftonts> there's no data on it, but there isn't any way to save the drive is there?
<oimon> SMART is not a guarantee of health
<ali1234> i've seen ubuntu stall for over 5 minutes due to hard drive activity
<oimon> although conversely if there is a smart error, then that is useful sign that it will fail soon
<cliftonts> I know oimon it's just a little annoying that my ears are the only thing that can detect the fault
<ali1234> look in the smart data at the number of themal recalibrations
<cliftonts> calibration retry count? or thermal asperity rate?
<oimon> usually dmesg has some messages though
<cliftonts> oimon I won't have a lot of data as I'm running off a live disc
<Darael> See what that Win98 install makes of it?  That would at least reveal which it was:  This stalling-on-any-hard-drive-access thing ali1234 mentioned, or a dying drive.
<ali1234> calibration retry count
<cliftonts> I know the drive is faulty, the noise is unmistakable
<ali1234> basically if it's more than 0, drive is dying
<cliftonts> Normalised: 250 - Worst: 250 - Threshold: 223 - Value 8589934650 - Good
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> how can value be over 8 billion?
<ali1234> every time it goes KLICK-KLUNK that's a thermal recalibration event
<cliftonts> don't ask me, more to the point if aything more than 0 is bad why is smart happy with that figure
<ali1234> every time it does it more than once in a row, that counter should increment by one
<cliftonts> well this drive has obviously been dying for a while then
<aeroplanez> http://i.imgur.com/npjWz.jpg
<aeroplanez> thatll work
<oimon> does it make a click click doinnnng noise like a spring against a pinball?
<cliftonts> no, just the repeted click
<ali1234> yeah about 200 years if that counter is accurate
<ali1234> how old is the drive?
<oimon> my anti -drop drive used to click occasionally , which was ok. but click click click is bad
<cliftonts> you know it feels like that long ago win98 was released
<ali1234> over ten years though?
<ali1234> it probably has a poor or non-existant smart implementation then
<oimon> and is due to die anyway
<cliftonts> it's a 4.3 gb so not really worth anything. I'm just curious as I'd expected linux to be a bit more accurate in telling me which drives to bin
<ali1234> smart is implemented in hard drive firmware
<ali1234> it's just a bunch of counters
<oimon> ok we know jimmy wales is the most annoying thing ever, but the wordpress"browser out of date" is pretty bad too
<ali1234> has a nyone got a link to the wikipedia screenshot with jimbo's head on an armadillo or something?
<cliftonts> the drive does still seem to be working somehow though
<ali1234> it's quite possible that the little hole to equalise air pressure is blocked up
<cliftonts> that's a thought
<oimon> run badblocks?
<ali1234> or maybe the motor/bearings are just wearing out
<Seeker`> just throw the drive out? :P
<oimon> agree. must be ridiculously slow
<cliftonts> oh it's a maxtor, that explains it
<ali1234> http://www.techerator.com/wp-content/uploads/jimmy-wales-everywhere.png
<ali1234> found it
<ali1234> it was a wombat
<Seeker`> a 4.3gb drive isn't useful, and you've probably spent more time trying to work out whether it is dead or not than you ever will gain from using it :P
<oimon> ali1234: nice
<cliftonts> guys I like to understand things, don't care about the driv but I've often wondered if there's a way to save a dying drive just like you could in the dark ages with norton utilities
<ali1234> no
<oimon> euthanasia
<ali1234> (and there never was)
<ali1234> in the bad old days the filesystem would get corrupted for no reason
<cliftonts> I din't ever see drives dying like this until the 850mb ones. I bet my old 40mb is still working out thre somewhere
<shauno> the goal with a dying drive is to be thankful you've got enough warning to pull data off it.  don't bother trying to save it - it won't return the favor.  it'll just die another day, and take everything it contains with it
<ali1234> well a 40mb drive is pretty much just 10 floppy disks in a metal case
<Seeker`> cliftonts: bet it isn't :P
<ali1234> i've got a 2GB drive that still works
<cliftonts> speaking of which shauno I need to finish abandoning ship on my dying 1tb (it took a MAJOR tumble) now I've got a new drive
<ali1234> it sounds like a powerdrill when it spins up though
 * daubers has seen a lot of the new 3TB drives failing recently :(
<Darael> Frankly, AHS.
<cliftonts> that's worth knowing
<oimon> watrer damage
 * Seeker` has stopped buying drives for now due to price
<cliftonts> do you think the data density is getting too high?
<daubers> Seeker`: Wish I could do that :(
 * daubers has put an order in for Â£150k worth of drives today
<Seeker`> daubers: got 6TB of space or so in my mythtv box. That'll keep me gonig for now
<Seeker`> daubers: ah, you had to buy ~10TB of disks? :P
<daubers> cliftonts: Nah, they're just too new. That and the factories in thailand being underwater has meant that quality has slipped a bit recently
<daubers> Seeker`: You joke, I ordered ~10TB of SSD's a couple of weeks ago and that wasn't far off that price
<Seeker`> if you're buying Â£150k of drives, they are all probably coming off the production line in sequence, so you'll get all of the bad ones
<daubers> yup
<Seeker`> the odds of a consumor / someone not buying insane quantities of them getting a terminal one is quite low
<daubers> Happens now and again, we see it more or newer drives than older generation ones
<cliftonts> erm..I'm looking at a 6tb drive now - soft read error rate - 158914112536
<cliftonts> that's a big number!
<Seeker`> 6tb?
<cliftonts> oops, gb
<Seeker`> where'd you get a 6tb drive from?
<Seeker`> :P
<daubers> cliftonts: if these are old drives that haven't spun up in a while, the grease will probably have seized up so it won't spin up properly
<Seeker`> daubers: I bought 8TB storage, 4x2tb disks, each disk was < Â£100 I think. Looked the other day, ~Â£200/disk now
<cliftonts> you know I think I'm going to have  big box in the computer fair labelled 'knackered crap - no offer refused'
<daubers> Seeker`: Yeah :( It's rubbish
<daubers> Seeker`: We were paying ~Â£90 a pop of enterprise 2TB disks last month, now they're about Â£150 a pop
<Seeker`> ouch
<cliftonts> wow! I found a compressed doublespace disk. Who remembers that?
 * daubers was glad he stocked up just before the price rises hit
<Seeker`> like I said, I've got 6TB of space left on my mmythtv box. Will take me a while to rip enough of my dvds to fill that lot
<Seeker`> ~1000 disks.
<daubers> heh :)
<cliftonts> these will all end up in the bin but I need to make sure I haven't stored anything on them first
<Seeker`> not sure I have that many :P
<Darael> Time to jury-rig a setup that takes a disk off a stack, stick it in the drive, rips it, and sticks it on another stack, clearly, Seeker`.
<ali1234> that reminds me i still need to write that software to flash usb drives
<Seeker`> Darael: haven't found any dvd rippers I really like on linux that work properly, so ripping on windows and transferring to my backend
<Seeker`> Darael: transfer speed is more of a bottleneck atm
<Darael> Ah.  Yes, I can imagine.
<Seeker`> Need to get a 30m cat 5, then I can transfer stuff over my gigabit network
<cliftonts> Right, I need to go and collect some kit I'm being given so I'll catch you guys later
<RJAHILL> Thanks for the help earlier, home time now!
<czajkowski> http://www.apps-world.net/europe/workshops/tv-apps-world  could be interesting if folks are around
<danfish> me thinks it is now officially BEER O'CLOCK :D
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon awaits loads of pub foursquare checkins.
<danfish> you can all go home/pub/both if you live in a pub. I insist.
<brobostigon> :)
<cliftonts> AlanBell do you live in this room? Every time I come in here you're online
<AlanBell> yes
<cliftonts> it's nice, I like what you've done with the decor lol
<AlanBell> actually I have irssi and screen so a constant connection running on a server, I connect to that
<AlanBell> but yeah, I am kind of here a lot :)
<cliftonts> well that kit I went to pick up was a weird and varied assortment.
<czajkowski> cliftonts: a lot of folks in here run screens to they never actually detach
<czajkowski> but may not be here
<czajkowski> idle times help if you're looking for someone
<cliftonts> understood
<penguin42> is 'keykoard' a valid word in some language?
<KrimZon> http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|keykoard <- not in the vocabulary that google knows of any language it knows
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it sounds like what we'd call a lanyard
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: (yes "lanyard" translates to "keycord" in DUtch)
<penguin42> hmm, so I have a really cheap Keyboard  that identifies itself as Keykoard, and googling finds lots of people talking about USB keykoards
<KrimZon> google suggests turkish
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> it sounds like a cheap chinese knock-off
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh very
<MartijnVdS> then it's probably just a mis-coptied bit of firmware :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: From the logs I think it's got a personality problem and also thinks it might be a mouse
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> bad firmware :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: can you pastebin lsusb -vv
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: (as root)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and xinput list --long
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/749559/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it reports as a bus-powered keyboard (HID device).. what's the problem exactly? :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: iProduct                2 USB Keykoard
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes that's just an arbitrary string provided by the manufacturer
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Indeed, a bit odd however
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Cheap Chinese knockoffs often have small quirks like this
<MartijnVdS> my brother once got an 8 g_bit_ as an 8 g_byte_ USB memory stick ;)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Nod - I was more surprised by the number of hits I got when googling for keykoard
<MartijnVdS> except the firmware thought it was 8 g_byte_ and trying to access anything beyond 8 gbit broke it
<MartijnVdS> Laney: I've filed my bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/896376
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 896376 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Galaxy Nexus (MTP, phone) doesn't show up in Banshee" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey http://orgxmas.eventbrite.co.uk/
<alexThunderr> hi, any steam user from uk here?
<Laney> hello hash ubuntu uk
<Laney> MartijnVdS: ye beauty, as you reproed it on the daily you can just go ahead and file it on bugzilla if you are up for that
<funkyHat> Hello
<jutnux> funkyHat: Hi
<AlanBell> I think I have worn out my mouse wheel
<AlanBell> on the cheapest mouse in the world evar
<AlanBell> what mouse should I get?
<funkyHat> MS mice are generally nice
<AlanBell> try again :)
<funkyHat> â¢D
<jacobw> logitech with back/forward buttons and four way scroll wheel
<funkyHat> back/forward buttons are soo good
<AlanBell> how about a magic touchpad? is that a mouse replacement?
<ali1234> buy an intellimouse optical 1.1
<ali1234> it's the best mouse
<ali1234> !best
<lubotu3`> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<ali1234> ^ i don't care, it's the best
<funkyHat> Nice preemption ;)
<AlanBell> that factoid is the reason I didn't say "what is the best mouse?"
<mgdm> AlanBell: I know a lot of folk like the magic touchpad, I've not tried one myself but I could see myself liking it
<AlanBell> not sure I am after the "best" mouse anyhow
<ali1234> why would you not want to buy the best mouse
<AlanBell> I want a pointing device that is good
<AlanBell> I might want the most interesting good pointing device
<ali1234> the best is good
<mgdm> Personally I fancy one of the Thinkpad keyboards with the trackpoint in the centre
<buzz_> my mouse was <Â£0
<buzz_> <Â£10 even
<jacobw> ha, factoid proliteration is endangering question askers
<AlanBell> buzz_: the one with the faily wheel was I think free with a Â£3 keyboard
<jacobw> trackpoints are awesome
<jacobw> a system76 with a trackpoint would be really awesome
<buzz_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-16536-Click-Wireless-Optical/dp/B0028YUK7E
<buzz_> my mouse
<ali1234> wireless :|
<AlanBell> yours has a brand name and everything buzz_
<buzz_> heh
<ali1234> brb, batteries are running out in my keyboaaaoaoaoaooooaoaooaoaoaoaooaoao
<buzz_> i have another trust mouse (wired) that was Â£5 i think also bought from my loacl wilkinson
<AlanBell> mine has "3d Optical Mouse" and "Made in China" on it
<AlanBell> and it isn't wireless
<ali1234> is it blue with likea trackball nstead of a wheel?
<buzz_> i wouldnt spend Â£70 etc on a mouse. i wear them out. i had a expensive mouse before and it lasted just as long as the cheap ones
<penguin42> Gah! Scan print the 1st four, and 4 from the other end card numbers on their paperwork - that's nuts!
<AlanBell> ali1234: black case, blue illuminated ruberised wheel
<jacobw> 3d mouse makes no sense
<buzz_> everything was better in 2d
<ali1234> my intellimouse is over 10 years old and still going strong
<AlanBell> maybe I need a 4d mouse now
<buzz_> 10 years? it must look like a mess
<ali1234> if it breaks i'll buy another one exactly the same
<jacobw> you need a 10d string theory ready mouse :p
<buzz_> i bet your mouse smells of finger cheese
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> it has smooth patches worn into the buttons
<buzz_> i have one of these http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/5/0/8/6/2/webimg/451786345_tp.jpg
<buzz_> :)
<buzz_> still in the box..
<buzz_> and one of these - http://hitchcomcomputers.com/cart/images/commodore%20music%20maker.jpg ;-)
<ali1234> is that the plastic keyboard that goes over the keyboard?
<buzz_> yeh
<ali1234> i used to have one of those
<ali1234> and the plotter
<buzz_> i think ive got the plotter in the loftg
<buzz_> -g
<ali1234> i had the light rifle too
<ali1234> got rid of it all when the c64 died
<buzz_> if my c64 dies, ill get another :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-26
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> hey morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> morning popey, how goes it?
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell how are you this fine day?
<popey> not bad. quiet night in last night with a mate
<MooDoo> good good
<popey> now I need to go to the post office, they failed to deliver something yesterday
<AlanBell> just having some breckie
<popey> Im hoping its a tablet
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> fingers crossed then
<popey> but suspect its kids xmas toys from amazon
<popey> Bah!
<MooDoo> popey: toys?
 * AlanBell will go out later to get a new mouse
<MooDoo> AlanBell: did you decide which one to get in the end?
<AlanBell> no, think I will go to PC World and see some
<Linuxsapien> anyone here in Scotland at all ?
<AlanBell> Linuxsapien: there are several
<Linuxsapien> ill keep asking til one appears then :D
<Linuxsapien> its hellish weather up here now, getting bored
<MooDoo> Linuxsapien: does it need to be someone scottish you speak too?
<Linuxsapien> inevitably im trying to get the scottish LUG more active, if that makes sense now ?
<MooDoo> ah ok :)
<AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=643 I would get one of those if it had a wheel and wasn't flat
<AlanBell> wheel in the right place that is
<Linuxsapien> but no I guess for decent chat, anyone in UK is welcome to bother me :D
<MooDoo> nah you're ok, ;) lol
<Linuxsapien> AlanBell: then that defeats the purpose of the mouse.. but it does look good :D
<Linuxsapien> pinky and wheel doesnt go
<Linuxsapien> thumb would be better
<AlanBell> I would be tempted to get one of those to stick in my bag, but not for my desk
<AlanBell> probably works better for lefties
<Linuxsapien> their prices are reasonable
<MooDoo> right now i've cleared work job for the moment, reinstall ubuntu on my laptop :D
<AlanBell> shipping can be steep
<Linuxsapien> i laugh at that "cute" keyboard, with a windows key.. major fail
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> I have a keyboard with a circle of friends logo
<Linuxsapien> self-made ?
<AlanBell> tried to contact the store to put them in touch with a great keyboard supplier
<Linuxsapien> i hope you were not ignored, ive seen your advice before, good
<AlanBell> http://www.keyboardco.com/ (sunglasses required for their website)
<AlanBell> they do custom keyboards and made up some new super keys for me
<Linuxsapien> ones that clip right into the keyboard?
<AlanBell> http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10021
<AlanBell> I have that one
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/keyboard.jpg
<Linuxsapien> nice backdrop heh
<Linuxsapien> next you could change the filco brand to canonical ;)
<AlanBell> that is a moulded part of the case
<AlanBell> quality keyboard
<Linuxsapien> speak of the devil :) hey TheOpenSourcerer how are the peckers ;)
<AlanBell> I think I want a wireless mouse with a recharging docking station
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/sony-vgpbms20-wireless-laser-mouse-orange-10983355-pdt.html
 * TheOpenSourcerer is preparing for his speed awareness driving course.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: This is what I'm using now: http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/mice-pointers/mice/devices/5845
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very pleased with it.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i did one of them a few months ago
<Linuxsapien> TheOpenSourcerer: that must feel superb to use
<TheOpenSourcerer> I used to have the MX1000 which lasted for about 6 years. And was excellent.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is as good if not better.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I love the fact I can charge it and use it at the same time and the free wheel feature is awsome.
<Linuxsapien> how does it charge?
<AlanBell> what is the free wheel feature?
<MooDoo> anyone going for IRCC?
<TheOpenSourcerer> The little button behind the wheel turns off the ratchet type thing and then you can spin the wheel and it runs for ages. useful on long spreadsheets or web pages...
<Linuxsapien> MooDoo: what is IRCC ?
<MooDoo> Linuxsapien: IRC Council
<Linuxsapien> ill stick to being an addict :)
<MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
<czajkowski> aloha
<Linuxsapien> ello
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski good to see you
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you ok ?
 * Linuxsapien decides to break the silence and put on some Amiga MODs
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be in Guildford this afternoon for 5hrs on a Speed Awareness driving course. In lieu of 3 points on my license...
<Linuxsapien> TheOpenSourcerer: i have a mate that will be there also heh
<Linuxsapien> for nattering on his mobile while on road
<TheOpenSourcerer> Really? In guildford?
<Linuxsapien> i reckon so
<MooDoo> czajkowski: two poorly children, and i'm at work, but yes fine thanks :)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: lol
<AlanBell> maybe I should just get the mouse TheOpenSourcerer suggested
<MooDoo> pah sick of ubuntu being so easy to install :)
<AlanBell> http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/mice-pointers/mice try ticking the linux compatible box!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah. It's working for me... I think I do not have the opportunity to change the laser resolution but hey ho - it's fine grained enough as it is. All the buttons work.
<AlanBell> funnily enough the gaming mouse isn't compatible with windows
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<MooDoo> hullo :)
<pr0ph3t> my mobile broadband doesn't respond, again :(
<MooDoo> boooooooooo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah - This is very funny: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/26/asda_geekend/
<pr0ph3t> it's internal so I can't take it out
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Britons should be eating five billion fewer calories a day than at present"  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15901351
<MooDoo> that's the headline in the mail this morning, britons are the most over weight :S
<pr0ph3t> I guess everytime I upgrade the kernel I need to do something although I'm not quite sure what. I "make" the files from the driver's folder then I remove the .ko drivers with modprobe -r, and then I "sudo make install" the lot
<pr0ph3t> is there anything I'm missing? when should I insmod the driver in this process, after boot?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes pr0ph3t you can use DKMS to automate the module update process... Might be worth looking at that if you haven't before
<pr0ph3t> not sure what it is but the folder for the driver is called acpi-dkms, is that a good thing?
<pr0ph3t> acpi4asus-dkms, so it should be a dynamic kernel module right?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: by my calculations that is about 416 elephants
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, the weight of 416 elephants or as much as 416 elephants eat?
<AlanBell> the calorific value of eating 416 elephants
<AlanBell> assuming similar to beef
<pr0ph3t> eheh
<UbuntuBhoy> african or indian elephants ?
<AlanBell> average male African elephants
<AlanBell> save teh elephants!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> bye all. Must be off.
<pr0ph3t> bye!
<UbuntuBhoy> male, so your counting the knob meat as well then
<mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: aww, and i was contemplating going out for a full english
<AlanBell> UbuntuBhoy: lowering the tone there /o\
<UbuntuBhoy> its my forte
<pr0ph3t> can someone have a look at this http://dev.iksaif.net/projects/acpi4asus/wiki/Backport_module and tell me if the procedure is missing something, because it doesn't produce the desired effects for some reason
<AlanBell> male elephants weigh about 15000 lbs, females are much smaller at around 8000
<pr0ph3t> I upgraded the kernel and now I can't activate mobile broadband, I try from the sysbar but it doesn't tick, I tried from the system settings panel but it doesn't move to the on position, the switch works for the other wireless but not for mobile broadband
<pr0ph3t> does anybody know what the reason might be?
<pr0ph3t> I'll give you lots of irc dollars if you help!
<cliftonts> Hi everyone
<cliftonts> I've got a question for you
<MooDoo> cliftonts: just ask away :)
<cliftonts> I've installed ubuntu and kubuntu on some low spec machines, 2.8ghz, 40gb, 512mb
<AlanBell> cliftonts: what graphics cards?
<cliftonts> I'm about to swap ubuntu for xubuntu because it's too slow even using unity 2D
<cliftonts> couldn't tell you without looking Alan
<AlanBell> go look :)
<AlanBell> cliftonts: run lspci from a terminal
<cliftonts> but the point is I'm swapping out ubuntu not kubuntu, is it possible unity has made kubuntu the faster release?
<AlanBell> one line will be the graphics card (contains VGA somewhere)
<cliftonts> I know, I know, I'm going brb
<AlanBell> unity should run *fine* on that spec
<AlanBell> although the 512 ram is the bit I would upgrade
 * buzz_ runs xubuntu
<buzz_> its quite ok
<AlanBell> xubuntu is fine, but if consumers are getting a PC with Ubuntu on it and turning up here for support I would rather they were running Ubuntu
<buzz_> my machines are xubuntu, ubuntu server, linux mint, and jolios
<cliftonts> intel 82865g
<AlanBell> 2.8ghz is not a particularly low spec CPU
<buzz_> if they are running unity, they will need support
<cliftonts> agreed alan, I'd rather showcase ubuntu but I can't demo how great it is when you have to go off and get a coffee every time you click something
<AlanBell> cliftonts: sure, I want to get to the bottom of that
<buzz_> xubuntu runs quite ok on my 512mb ram machine here (joggler)
<buzz_> although i tend to use jolios on that
<cliftonts> something is making them unbearably slow, I'd say lack of ram
<cliftonts> the hard drive churns away for ages
<cliftonts> I'm going to see if I can pick up some ram on the cheap at the computer fair, bump them up to 1gb
<MooDoo> buzz_: what you think to mint?  is it 11 or 12 you're running
<cliftonts> it's funny kubuntu is  coping though, I've always considered that to be the intensive one
<AlanBell> I have an atom 1.6Ghz processor with an Intel 82945G graphics chipset
<buzz_> the last one. i will "try" the new one when it comes out in vbox or so
<AlanBell> cliftonts: how about unity 2d, does that work OK?
<buzz_> on my o2 joggler, kde runs horribly, whereas unity 2d is ok. so
<cliftonts> nope
<cliftonts> better but not usable
<cliftonts> how much memory on your atom Alan?
<AlanBell> 1GB
<AlanBell> can you try stealing 512 from one and make a machine with 1GB to try it?
<buzz_> MooDoo, if i go to linux mint 12, i might use the gnome2 forked "mate" desktop, as the hardware is pretty old anyway which i run it on (old desktop and 7 year old laptop)
<cliftonts> there you go,  I don't think 512 is enough
<buzz_> 512 is enough for xubuntu. at least on my system
<cliftonts> I've upgraded them as much as I can, 2 are now 768 and 1 is 1gb
<buzz_> lxde will use even less
<buzz_> cliftonts, tried jolios ? :)
<Myrtti> MooDoo: still considering, probably not (re: IRCC)
<cliftonts> I'm downloading xubuntu and lubuntu now, will re-install and perhaps put ubuntu back on during the show if I get more memory. Perhaps I could make a show of how easy it is?
<buzz_> its ubuntu lucid (gnome) but with html5 based interface, and you can sync machines etc
<cliftonts> no buzz, never heard of it
<MooDoo> Myrtti: is it's something you'd be interested in doing?
<buzz_> cliftonts, http://www.jolicloud.com/download
<cliftonts> but I want to stick with the ubuntu family to make support easier
<pr0ph3t> maybe I need to install the kernel headers for the upgraded kernel before I reinstall the module which I shouldn't need to reinstall everytime since it is a dkms?
<cliftonts> I'm intrigued, why don't I know about jolios already?
<cliftonts> looks interesting
<buzz_> i run it on my little jogglers and it looks a bit like this (you can have a nice background of course) http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/images/jolicloud1.1-2.png
<buzz_> which is more usable on 800x480 than this (unity2d) http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png
<mattt> buzz_: interesting domain :)
<cliftonts> sort of like my mobile phone, strips out all the techie side of computing?
<buzz_> http://www.exotica.org.uk :-) safe for work!
<buzz_> cliftonts, pretty much.
<mattt> buzz_: :D
<Myrtti> MooDoo: it's more about inner need to try to serve the community than really wanting to do it. it's not a grateful job and I don't think anybody *wants* to do it
<cliftonts> what about configuring? it looks like it's all end user and no admin
<buzz_> configuring what ?
<MooDoo> Myrtti: i think it sounds certainly interesting, wether it is or not is a different matter :)
<pr0ph3t> so if I get this error it means the module is already loaded? insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 File exists
<buzz_> its gnome2 underneath. the panel at the top is a gnome panel etc
<MooDoo> buzz_: chaos engine yippee [logos at top of page]
<cliftonts> well put ubuntu on 5 laptops and 4 of them won't work properly, I assume this thing isn't god's gift to hardware
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: try: sudo modprobe -r asus-laptop
<buzz_> MooDoo, :)
<buzz_> MooDoo, it switches round each day we have a few different logos
<MooDoo> awesome :)
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, and then do insmod again?
<buzz_> site is just starting its 15th year online.
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: right
<buzz_> time flies
<pr0ph3t> now it's insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
<cliftonts> right then. I'm off to install stuff
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: following the pattern? :)
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: modprobe -r $module <-- does a remove
<pr0ph3t> yes
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: see the example on the page?  You'll need to prepend them with sudo
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, yes I do that, he doesn't specify it
<pr0ph3t> so if I get that error it means the module has not loaded correct?
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: yes
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, is the sequence correct though, apart from the missing sudo before make install, reboot, modprobe and insmod
<pr0ph3t> I have to admit it has been a nightmare to keep this thing working up until now, with every update I had to do something to make it work again. I don't know what I'm supposed to do this time to be able to use it again
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: well it's correct for what he is describing, but note - every kernel abi bump, you'll have to redo thsi
<pr0ph3t> yes that is what I tried to do this time but it doesn't work this time
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: what part doesn't work?
<pr0ph3t> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> what is chris evens doing, as a chef, on saturday kitchen, weird.
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, I can't switch the mobile broadband on
<brobostigon> morning pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> neither from the top panel network manager, nor from the Network settings in the System Settings window
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: Have you already "sudo make install" ?
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, yes
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: and what was returned on the screen?
<pr0ph3t> should I modprobe -r all and then make and make install, or should I reboot before I make install?
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: Right, lets go through each stage
<Daviey> git clone git://git.iksaif.net/acpi4asus-dkms.git
<pr0ph3t> got it
<Daviey> downloads the source code
<pr0ph3t> yes
<Daviey> cd acpi4asus-dkms.git
<Daviey> get into the source code tree
<Daviey> make
<Daviey> (does the compile)
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> all fine no errors so far
<Daviey> sudo modprobe -r 'modules'
<pr0ph3t> yes
<Daviey> series of modules, that removes them from the kernel currently in memory.
<Daviey> insmod modules.ko , loads the compiled kernels
<Daviey> but doesn't make it so they are persistent between reboots.
<Daviey> You should be able to test at this stage and have success
<Daviey> When you are sure it's working, "sudo make install" will install it to the disk
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, ~/acpi4asus-dkms/drivers/platform/x86$ sudo insmod asus-laptop.ko
<pr0ph3t> = insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
<pr0ph3t> should I still test?
<pr0ph3t> or reboot?
<pr0ph3t> mobile broadband is still not enabled
<pr0ph3t> did I do something wrong?
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: can you, sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<Daviey> dmesg | pastebinit
<Daviey> and paste the returned address here please?
<pr0ph3t> sec
<pr0ph3t> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750180/
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: I suspect it's the ordering of the load
<Daviey> You had the same problem in October?
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, what's the ordering of the load?
<Daviey> I mean, that i suspect one of the modules depends on symbols exposed by another module
<Daviey> modprobe tends to be pretty good at resolving this, insmod is not
<Daviey> When you fixed this last time, i'm guessing you just "sudo make install" then rebooted?
<pr0ph3t> so I should load another module before I insmod that one correct?
<pr0ph3t> yes pretty much that's what I did
<Daviey> pr0ph3t: Do that again :)
<pr0ph3t> Daviey, and I actually thought I had solved the problem, it worked on more than one occasion that method, not this time though. I'll give it another go
<pr0ph3t> be right back
<Pr0ph3t> ok I'm booting
<Pr0ph3t> I already tried though Davies
<Pr0ph3t> Daviey*
<Pr0ph3t> maybe I could boot with an older kernel and see if it works then
<Daviey> great
<Daviey> Wellm you installed the modules to the current kernel, right?
<Rolka> #ubuntu-lt
<Pr0ph3t> yes, it does it automatically
<Pr0ph3t> Daviey nothing, still can't switch the bloody thing on :(
<Pr0ph3t> thanks for your help though
<Daviey> Pr0ph3t: :(
<Daviey> Pr0ph3t: I think you should try some experimentation, and work out what you did before
<Daviey> Perhaps start the process from scratch
<MooDoo> hi, just heard people talking about this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences/ApprovedTeamGift  isn't AlanBell out poc and not DaveWalker or is it irrelevant the contact on that page?
<Sif> afternoon all. I was hpoing i maight be able to trouble someone for a little help regarding data recovery from a HDD which cannot be mounted in Ubuntu 11.10, currently running on LiveCD
<czajkowski> MooDoo: it was for order the banner and stuff which has been done
<czajkowski> it doesnt need to update the current PoC
<MooDoo> ah ok </interferringdone> :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nope not at all valid question
<czajkowski> that page was created to keep track of the requests
<czajkowski> request done :)
<Sif> is anybody free to help?
<MooDoo> Sif: just ask, if anyone can help they will
<Sif> OK, thanks MooDoo. Here's the problem. I have to try and recover files from a vista machine which refuses to boot. i have used a Ubunto11.10 liveCD and i have it up and running. When i open disk utility, i can see the hard drive (/dev/sda) but cannot access, or mount it, or run benchmarks on it
<Sif> after a few hours of googling, i'm no closer to being able to actually see the contents of this drive
<MooDoo> Sif: can't you boot of a live cd and then mount the drive using soemthing like mount /dev/sda /mnt?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: yes, but Daviey was at the time
<MooDoo> AlanBell: thanks czajkowski cleared it up for me :D
<Sif> : /dev/sda /mnt gave me permission denied
<AlanBell> Daviey: any chance of getting the banner/tablecloth to the london area over christmas? Just put it in millbank somewhere and I can get it from there
<MooDoo> Sif: have a look at /var/log/messages it should tell you the actual drive, perhaps it's /dev/sda1?
<brobostigon> or fdisk -l ?
<MooDoo> or that
<Sif> yeah, fdisk -l returns absolutely nothing. It's like it isn't communicating with the drive at all, despite it being there under disk utility
<AlanBell> Sif: sudo fdisk -l
<penguin42> Sif: How big a drive?
 * AlanBell has a new mouse
<Sif> : sudo fdisk -l does nothing,it merely moves to the next line of the cmd prompt
<AlanBell> went for a simple one in the end
<Sif> it's a 250gb hitachi drive
 * penguin42 hands AlanBell a crumb of cheese
<penguin42> Sif: Can you pastebin /proc/partitions and /proc/scsi/scsi ?
<Sif> ATA Hitachi HT554502. Location: Port 1 of SATA Host Adapter. Device: /dev/sda
<Sif> it says permission denied for both of those commands, and when preceeded by sudo, it says command not found
<brobostigon> they are files, not commands.
<penguin42> Sif: Do   sudo apt-get install pastebinit    and then    sudo pastebinit -i /proc/partitions
<Sif> E: unable to locate package pastebinit
<penguin42> hmm
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get update first
<jacobw> http://www.thinkgeek.com/clearance/991e/#tabs
<jacobw> :o
<Sif> the update didn't help. same error as before
<AlanBell> cliftonts: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/774999
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 774999 in Baltix "[i865G] Upgrade should warn user about lack of support for old 8xx intel hardware" [Undecided,New]
<Daviey> AlanBell: I'm not sure i'll be going into millbank before end of year, but I will be in near Southampton.. Perhaps we can work something out?
<Daviey> afk
<cliftonts> oh?
<cliftonts> so you think the low performnce is purely a video issue?
<jacobw> [sudo] fdisk [option] <disk>
<Sif> for all the mounting, it says 'can't read superblock'
<Sif> that sounds like it might be a bad thing
<jacobw> 'sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda' should tell you which is the ntfs partition, assuming the drive is the first sata
<Sif> that command doesnt' do anything, it just moves to the next line on the terminal. And yeah, Location: Port 1 of SATA host adapter
<cliftonts> A quick puzzle for everyone, I've got a cover disc from linux format with 3 versions of ubuntu on it (ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu) as a result of that you don't get the 'push button for advanced options' screen you would on a dedicated disc. So how would I do an oem install?
<ali1234> you'd have to ask linux format
<cliftonts> you don't know what command would be issued to start the installer in oem mode then?
<jacobw> Sif: odd, what does 'file /dev/sda' say?
<Sif> '/dev/sda: block special'
<AlanBell> cliftonts: you need the alternate CD for the OEM install
<cliftonts> no you don't, usually with a live cd push a key when the nonsensical hyroglyphics are on the screen to get the menu up and then select it from there
<AlanBell> oh OK, I haven't done the OEM thing since about Hardy
<AlanBell> the hyroglyphs are the symbols for press a key to get to the accessibility options
<AlanBell> and are the most embarrasingly stupid thing ever added to Ubuntu
<cliftonts> yes but they don't say that to me, they don't have an obvious meaning
<cliftonts> keyboard = man standing in a circle isn't it?
<ali1234> got a picture of them?
<AlanBell> press a key when you see this symbol if you are blind /o\
<AlanBell> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility
<AlanBell> that symbol
<ali1234> the man in a circle?
<AlanBell> in 11.10 you press ctrl+s when you hear the drums as the liveCD boots to launch orca
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, it is on the livecd splashscreen
<ali1234> yeah i've seen it before
<AlanBell> doesn't mean much even if you can see
<ali1234> yeah
<cliftonts> ali1234: load a ubuntu live disk, the first graphic it shows is at the bottom of the screen a picture of a keyboard the = sign and a man stood in a circle
<cliftonts> it's supposed to mean push a key for more options
<AlanBell> specifically the accessibility options
<cliftonts> however the literal translation is WTF?
<cliftonts> AlanBell: Then push F4 for the menu with OEM in it
<AlanBell> ok
<cliftonts> Ha! I think I got it!
<cliftonts> maybe
<jacobw> Sif: post 'lspci | grep SATA' to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: right, but how are you supposed to know what that blob is?
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: what it *appears* happens is you boot an Ubuntu live CD, and it crashes immediately on startup with a black screen with some funny little logo at the bottom
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: you are *supposed* to recognise the gnome a11y team logo, quite why the designer of the splashscreen made that expectation is a mystery
<cliftonts> Sorry gordonjcp?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's not particularly recognisable
<cliftonts> no, I agree
<ali1234> AlanBell: there's plenty of things in ubuntu that you are just supposed to know
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I mean, even allowing for the fact that all the icons are just random unrecognisable blobs as far as I'm concerned
<ali1234> like that there's an invisible menu at the top of the screen
<gordonjcp> ali1234: that's true of any OS though
<ali1234> or middle clicking
<AlanBell> I just had a thought . . . http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
<AlanBell> you are *supposed* to have a mac
<AlanBell> that is what was going through the designer mind :)
<gordonjcp> ali1234: look at all the weird random stuff you have to "just know" to make Windows work
<ali1234> figures
<cliftonts> true
<Sif> jacobw: done
<AlanBell> Sif: you appear to be missing an essential step in sharing that information ;)
<Sif> ??
<ali1234> is there a way to change the default pastebin?
<jacobw> Sif: what's the URL?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes, there is, one sec  . . .
<Sif> ah, paste.ubuntu.com/750282/
<Sif> doh
<ali1234> a way that does not require patching pastebinit
<AlanBell> make a ~.pastebinit.xml file
<Sif2> ok, i'm on thi username now...this is the damaged machine
<AlanBell> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/en/man1/pastebinit.1.html
<ali1234> hmm i wonder what is the least obnoxious pastebin then
<AlanBell> pastebinit -l gives you a list of them
<jacobw> Sif: 'lsmod | grep ahci'
<AlanBell> I think it is distropatched to use paste.ubuntu.com now
<ali1234> it is
<ali1234> but the thing is, everyone *hates* paste.ubuntu.com because you have to login to launchpad to download the raw paste
 * AlanBell likes it
<ali1234> and because it has no syntax highlighting
<AlanBell> it does
<jacobw> why do have to log in to launchpad?!
<ali1234> well that's new
<AlanBell> but pastebinit doesn't trigger syntax hilighting by default
<Sif2> jacobw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/750294/
<AlanBell> ali1234: pastebinit -f python orca.py gives me http://paste.ubuntu.com/750296/
<ali1234> now click "download as text" when not logged in to launchpad
<AlanBell> yeah, I am never not logged in to launchpad
<ali1234> also there's no way to modify it
<AlanBell> modify it?
<ali1234> yes like if you want to correct it
<jacobw> Sif2: 'modinfo libahci'
<jacobw> Sif2: i doubt that will tell us much
<ali1234> you have to copy it all, type in "paste.ubuntu.com" manually to url bar, paste it, then edit it
<ali1234> cos there isn't even a "new paste" link
<jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo modprobe -ar libahci achi; sudo modprobe -a achi libachi'
<Sif2> v
<Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750300/
<Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750301/
<jacobw> damn :(
<jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo modprobe -ar libahci ahci; sudo modprobe -a ahci libahci'
<Sif2> bad news?
<jacobw> try again..
<AlanBell> ali1234: the feature I would like is an expiry time, defaulting to 1 month
<jacobw> i don't think modprobe will allow you to reinsert those drivers
<Sif2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750304/
<jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt'
<jacobw> Sif2: assuming the ntfs partition is the first
<AlanBell> ali1234: Bug #754813
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 754813 in Canonical ISD web "paste.ubuntu.com requires login to download as text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754813
<ali1234> yes i know
<AlanBell> and Bug #509217
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 509217 in Ubuntu Website "paste.ubuntu.com requires authorization to "download as text"" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509217
<MooDoo> think i'm loosing the will to live
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> that first one is a dupe
<AlanBell> it is, the second one is the real one
<ali1234> yes and it is WONTFIX
<ali1234> so i WONTUSE it
<Sif2> jacobw: sorry dud, lost internet connection
<Sif2> what did i miss?
<penguin42> Sif2: Next weeks lottery numbers
<Sif2> :(
<jacobw> Sif2: 'sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt'
<jacobw> Sif2: assuming the ntfs partition is the first
<Sif2> jacobw: 'special device /dev/sda1 does not exist'
<Sif2> same for 2, 3 & 4
 * jacobw thinks the partiton table is dead
<ali1234> heh
<Sif2> so all access to any files is lost?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you just need an expert to recover the files for you
<Sif2> well, i appreciate everyone's help, you've all been great
<Sif2> guess i best pass along the bad news
<jacobw> its not lost, try using testdisk to recover
<Sif2> is that a windows programme?
<jacobw> no
<jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
<Sif2> and it's cool for 11.10?
<jacobw> you can install it in the live environment, 'sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install testdisk'
<jacobw> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
<Sif2> thanks ever so much, i'll trudge through that now
<Sif2> E: Unable to locate package testdisk
<Sif2> hmmmm
<jacobw> you may need to enable universe
<jacobw> which should be enabled by default..
<Sif2> i don't know how to do that (sorry to be a pain in your arse)
<jacobw> cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep universe
<jacobw> you have done 'sudo apt-get update' haven't you?
<Sif2> yeah
<Sif2> still unable to install testdisk
<Sif2> 'cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep universe' doesn't seemingly ddo anything
<jacobw> ok
<jacobw> replace the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list with http://paste.ubuntu.com/750324/ and try again
<jacobw> create /etc/apt/sources.list if it doesn't exist
<Sif2> nd i can't save it
<Sif2> it says that it's read-only
<danfish> hello hello
<danfish> landscape is very cool, but is there a self-installable open source alternative?
<jacobw> 'sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list'
<Sif2> k....looking at 4 lines beginning with deb
<jacobw> delete them, ctrl+k deletes lines, and paste in http://paste.ubuntu.com/750324/
<Sif2> jut ctrl x after pasting?
<jacobw> yeah
<jacobw> ctrl+x,y,<enter>
<Sif2> done
<Sif2> still......E: Unable to locate package testdisk
<jacobw> cool :) do a 'sudo apt-get update'
<jacobw> then 'sudo apt-get install testdisk'
<Sif2> ok....loading a lot of stuff
<Sif2> installed :)
<jacobw> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
<Linuxsapien> which command do I use to find out version of Ubuntu I am using ?
<MooDoo> lsb_release -a
<MooDoo> from a terminal prompt obviously
<MooDoo> Linuxsapien: that work for you?
<Linuxsapien> please dont use the word "obviously", but thank you that is what I was looking for
 * Linuxsapien offskies to have a.. what ever :D
<Sif2> jacobw: test disk is still not findging the HDD, let alone missing partitions
<MooDoo> Linuxsapien: i sit corrected :)
<jacobw> Sif2: how did this problem start?
<Sif2> that, i don't know. This is my fathers vista machine
<Sif2> he said he was using the pc to write and it swutched off
<Sif2> it would then no longer boot, saying operating system not found
<jacobw> hmm, sounds like motherboard failure.
<jacobw> you could confirm by swapping the disk with a known good disk and observe it not being recognised
<Sif2> motherboard failures in laptops are more costly than a harddrive failure?
<jacobw> probably
<Sif2> ah
<Sif2> well, the cost isn't the issue
<jacobw> it may just be the one port, especially if nothing else appears broken
<Sif2> if it means scrapping the laptop, then so be it
<Sif2> but if the HDD can be plugged into an external case and accessed via another machine, that won't be so bad
<jacobw> there may be more than one sata port, in which case you can move the drive to another sata port
<Sif2> ok, right...i'll shut this down and get the screwdrivers out
<jacobw> although i think that's very unlikley in laptop
<jacobw> in any case, you probably haven't lost data.
<Sif2> superb
<Sif2> thanks again jacob, it's greatly appreciated
<jacobw> no problem :)
<ali1234> motherboard failure my ass
<danfish> ali1234: your donkey's motherboard isn't working? Time to get a new donkey.
<popey> Afternoon all.
<czajkowski> popey: ello
<MooDoo> hiya popey
<MooDoo> seems quiet this after noon
<MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
<penguin42> nod
 * MartijnVdS played with the camera on his Galaxy Nexus today
<MartijnVdS> it's quite good
<MartijnVdS> also.. built-in timelapse and panorama modes â¥
 * MooDoo is watching the UDS P videos
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski waves.....oh you're on video :)
<popey> hmm, need to pop to the shop with sam to get some bits to make curry
<popey> ttfn
<MooDoo> later alan
<Myrtti> meep.
<Myrtti> trek to the hotel and from there to bowling alley and back to hotel resulted in blisters :-<
<Myrtti> boo
<MooDoo> ouch
<Myrtti> and I specificically put my walking shoes on :-<
<Myrtti> life is unfair
<MooDoo> thicker socks
<MartijnVdS> bigger shoes :)
<MartijnVdS> that's what I did with my running shoes
<MartijnVdS> I got horrible horrible blisters with my old shoes, so I got new ones a size bigger
<MartijnVdS> *poof* no more blisters
<Myrtti> yeah I think the problem with these is they're just a tad big rather than small
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe there's something "sticking out", or some edge near where you got blisters
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: getting rid of those will help a lot
<Myrtti> no, it's just me
<MartijnVdS> OK you don't want our suggestions. Point taken. :)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: fire walk toughen your feet up :D
<Myrtti> MooDoo: just more walking, doesn't need fire for it
<MartijnVdS> also, http://www.boots.com/en/Compeed-Blister-Hydrocolloid-Medium-5-Plasters_2407/ :)
<MooDoo> Myrtti: are there nice walks where you are?
<Myrtti> yeah, should really have more walks
<Myrtti> perhaps take my camera out more
<MooDoo> Myrtti: that's sounds like a plan :)
<gordonjcp> is there a way to force unity to use 2d instead of 3d
<gordonjcp> ?
 * penguin42 thought he had seen that on the login menu
<gordonjcp> hm, maybe, hang on while I log out again
<gordonjcp> ah, yeah, that's got it
<gordonjcp> and the screen corruption has gone too
<gordonjcp> xorg is still screaming away at 90% CPU usage, but it's still an improvement
<daubers> Afternoon
<MattJ> Evening
<MooDoo> how do! :)
<penguin42> gordonjcp: 90% - doing what?
 * daubers might be putting an offer on a house next week \o/
<MooDoo> woohoo
<AlanBell> nice
<daubers> waiting for the financial advisor to get back to me :)
<MooDoo> daubers: fingers crossed then
<daubers> yup :)
<gordonjcp> penguin42: sitting at a desktop
<gordonjcp> penguin42: one xterm open, showing top
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Hmm that's excessive - what's the hardware ?
<gordonjcp> penguin42: P4 3GHz, 2G RAM, onboard i945 graphics
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Can you confirm it's *945* as opposed to an earlier intel chip?
<gordonjcp> not without a screwdrivert
<gordonjcp> -t
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Can you pastebin lspci ?
<gordonjcp> http://pastebin.com/JzG7BZNE
<penguin42> hmm - sure is a 945
<MartijnVdS> 945++
<penguin42> gordonjcp: OK, that's weird - this laptop is a 945 and it's happy; admittedly it's a Core2 duo not a P4
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<gordonjcp> not easily, because it's too long to fit on one terminal
<penguin42> gordonjcp: You can do it with pastebinit
<gordonjcp> http://paste.ubuntu.com/750511/
<MartijnVdS> cool -- my new phone shows the name of the city if an unknown number calls :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/11/ubuntu-developer-summit.html
<MartijnVdS> (caller's city, of course)
<popey> woop woop woop
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: cute
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Well, that's a happy bunny
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Pastebin a dmesg?
 * jacobw is somewhat annoyed the last tenant cleaned the markings from the oven
<MartijnVdS> David Tennant?
<jacobw> i have to guess which of the 8 functions is 'main oven' and where '180' might be on temperature knob
<jacobw> doctor who wouldn't be so silly :p
<popey> I'd find the model number of the oven and look for the manual online
<popey> they almost always have a picture of the knobs
<jacobw> ++popey
<mattt> daubers: buying in reading?
<daubers> mattt: Nah, newbury
<daubers> looked in reading
<MartijnVdS> popey: isn't that what the internet is for? pictures of knobs?
<penguin42> :-)
<Azelphur>  My uncles gone out and bought an android tablet and I'm trying to get the USB 3g dongle to work. It's an O2 dongle and the tablet wants the following information: Device Number, APN, User, Password. Anyone know what I'd put in these fields?
<Linuxsapien> Azelphur  query me please
<AlanBell> Azelphur: it will be in the network manager defaults somewhere (the info)
<AlanBell> Azelphur: plug it in to an Ubuntu desktop and let it set up the connection, then edit the connection
<popey> or just google it
<Azelphur> AlanBell: good idea
<popey> its well documented online
<Azelphur> tried googling it didn't really get anywhere
<Azelphur> I mean I tried the apn details I found, but it didn't work
<Azelphur> and lots of conflicting information
<popey> i would prove it works first as AlanBell says
<Linuxsapien> i just googled it too, its all there.. ALWAYS google before asking :)
<Azelphur> yea, trying that now just firing up my laptop
<Azelphur> I did google before asking, I just mentioned that
<Linuxsapien> aye we dud
<Azelphur> :)
<AlanBell> popey: it wasn't to prove it works, it was to extract the settings
<popey> i didnt mean that
<popey> i meant prove it works in the manner AlanBell described
<AlanBell> that is a nice side effect :)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: yay it's working
<Azelphur> internet cookies for you good sir :P
<AlanBell> the second best type of cookies :) nom
<rbsfou> Hi all, i know i'm probably asking the earth in some ways, but can anyone recommend a decent netbook? I'd like it to be dual core, 64bit, nvidia graphics.....and no optimus!
 * penguin42 prefers the triple chocolate type
<penguin42> of cookie, not netbook
<rbsfou> So far i'm thinking of the Asus 1201n, even though it isn't available without one of 'those stickers'
<rbsfou> But that's the last generation of atoms, a 330 which 'only' has 512kib l2 cache....the new atoms are 1mib
<rbsfou> Currently on an Acer Aspire One zg5 (the ssd model) and it's a bit 'meh'....i think the ion might actually consume less power than the 945!
<popey> what do you want to do with it rbsfou ?
<rbsfou> Minecraft :)
<popey> nvidia graphics in a netbook!?
<popey> never seen that myself
<rbsfou> Well, not just that....but i don't need hardware virtualization on this particular machine so i'd rather atom than ulv
<popey> also, why netbook>
<popey> ?
<popey> why not a normal size laptop?
 * AlanBell is waiting for the asus transformer prime before getting back into the netbook owners club
<rbsfou> popey: You not seen the ION or ION2? The trouble of course with the latter is that it's almost inevitably not arranged as the primary GPU, but as some sort of 'slave' which renders frames which go into the Intel gfx frame buffer.....'optimus' technology, but it doesn't work on Linux
<popey> i have two ion based devices on my desk
<rbsfou> Want it to be small and light, easily holdable in one hand
<popey> that asus looks about right
<popey> but I dont think I'd invest in a 1.6GHz cpu these days
<rbsfou> AlanBell : Yeah i saw that, looks nice....but just like the other Arm devices is focused on Android....and in the absence of standards in the ARM world, 'normal' linux support is going to be hit and miss :(
<popey> they're a bit long in the tooth
<rbsfou> Yeah that's what i mean :( It IS dual core, and 64bit...had the ION1 / Atom Z330 combo in the Asus Revo 3610 and was a nice little desktop....but the 512k cache is goingto suck, i've got an Asus ION2 / D525 itx board now and it's so much faster :)
<rbsfou> But finding that in netbook form always involves optimus :(
<AlanBell> maybe an ultralight laptop is what you want
<penguin42> rbsfou: Why Nvidia?
<AlanBell> the macbook air form factor
<rbsfou> I would be open to ARM, but it would need to have some sort of standard firmware that i new i'd be able to upgrade the OS on in future....and so far it seems a case of 'good luck with that'
<rbsfou> penguin42 : Minecraft :) Ran ok on my revo 3610, which is basically the same as the Asus 1201n i was thinking of
<AlanBell> ASUS UX21E if you don't mind price
<popey> i have an arm laptop and it's not particularly performant
<rbsfou> popey: ooh really? They always seem to be 'just round the corner'....and ebay seems full of nice little machines (but without the graphics performance), but they are always CE or Android
<popey> It came with Android
<popey> I put Ubuntu on it
<rbsfou> AlanBell : Ta, looks nice....but too pricey, i can only really spend up to Â£500
<rbsfou> popey : Which machine was it? The reason why i'm thinking of getting a new netbook is so i can give the ZG5, running lubuntu and stuff like gcompris to my 4yr old nephew as xmas pressie
<popey> Toshiba AC100
<rbsfou> popey: But a nice little ARM / SSD thing could be nice for him too, and i'd just stick with the ZG5 for a while longer.....guessing there's no flash though right :(
<rbsfou> Oh i seen those on ebay actually......seems more quality than the cheap chinese via arm netbooks tablets that ebay seems flooded with
<popey> yes, you can get flash on it
<popey> whether you'd want to...
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrX6zipkMA in german, but shows it
<rbsfou> popey : Ahh ok i'll have a look at that....I've also got an n900, and to upgrade to flash 10.1 involves using a libflashplayer.so that was leaked from Texas Instruments :(
<popey> heh
<rbsfou> Seems ARM and Android are as intertwined as x86 and windows these days :(
<rbsfou> Android has some nice features, like break with legacy X, but it's not meant for multi-user use.....it is linux, but seems nothing like a desktop linux system, which is what i'd want
<rbsfou> Ahh anyway ta for the suggestions guys....there's never a good time to buy this stuff, and as usual, 'vanilla' Linux users are always the lowest priority
<rbsfou> Does anyone know what's going on in terms of the ARM world and standards? Like are we going to have a standard firmware, standard way of initiazling devices, all that sort of Jazz?
<rbsfou> I'd like to think MS bringing windows to ARM will do this....but i bet it won't, they seem to be looking to locking down the way apple do nowadays....windows phone 7 is market only for apps
<ali1234> ARM is a mess
<ali1234> there are no standards at all
<rbsfou> Yeah...i saw an article about Linus getting tired of all these patches to the kernel for each variant of it
<danfish> popey: probably rude to ask, but how many computificating devices do you currently own/use?
<ali1234> the reason is arm devices don't have slots
<ali1234> everything is in one chip
<rbsfou> Thing is, Shuttleworth did say a couple years ago about ARM ubuntu machines being available, and i have seen a few machines here and there....but not as many as i'd like
<ali1234> windows on arm isn't going to help
<ali1234> microsoft is no longer the small startup trying to gain a foothold in the market
<rbsfou> ali1234 : Agreed. I think it's the perfect reason for them to start locking up.
<ali1234> also, nobody really cares about windows on arm
<rbsfou> Also, no one seems to say whether you'll be able to upgrade these ubuntu ARM machines in the future....they almost seem as throwaway in that regard as the cheap VIA android slates and netbooks on ebay....and i really hate throwing away usable hardware
<ali1234> nothing wth an ARM chip will be upgradable
<ali1234> it will have no slots
<ali1234> if you're really lucky you'll be able to upgrade the ram
<rbsfou> I meant more in the case of software
<ali1234> but in most cases even that will involve soldering new chips
<ali1234> the software won't be upgradable either
<ali1234> for the same reason
<rbsfou> You do see newer roms available for some of these cheap android slates.....but there's no guarantee of that
<ali1234> if you want 3d acceleration to work you will be trapped on a single specific kernel version for ever
<ali1234> and, without 3d acceleration, the shiny user interfac will run very very slowly
<ali1234> so the only kind of "upgrades" you are likely to see are ones that involve putting debian and some ancient desktop environment on it
<rbsfou> As a former amigan, i use to bemoan the Windows PC for stuff like the clunky instruction set and exotic range of hardware....but at least the ol' BIOS has evolved to included things like ACPI (now that it's cleaner), and DMI/PNP for initializing PCI hardware, and BIOS 'function' roms and stuff
<MooDoo> evening all
<MooDoo> :)
<rbsfou> lo MooDoo
<rbsfou> ta for the community pointers the other night
<MooDoo> no worries :)
<rbsfou> Is there many uk meetings in meatspace?
<Laney> coMOOnity
<MooDoo> lol
<rbsfou> lol
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam#Meetings
<AlanBell> rbsfou: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ <- beerspace meetings
<MooDoo> next one is on dec 1st for the ubuntu uk team
<rbsfou> I live in Essex and there doesn't seem to be much round my way....though there is a LUG in Southend
<MooDoo> perhaps you could have a go at starting something?
<AlanBell> rbsfou: tell me a postcode and pub name and I will add it to the list
<rbsfou> AlanBell : Will have to have a think about that, not really a pubby person
<rbsfou> MooDoo : I am tempted....got a couple mates i've got using Linux now
<AlanBell> thats fine
<MooDoo> rbsfou: then what about an ubuntu hour?  a friendly meetup in a cafe or something?
<AlanBell> they are just rather good, free, safe, findable meeting places
<rbsfou> Yeah....I should get my arse up to this LUG in Southend really and meet some folk in meatspace really
<MooDoo> yeah it's fun :)  you neve know you might meet some people who fancy having an event or something
<rbsfou> http://wiki.soslug.org/ Don't suppose anyone on the channel who's watching is in essex?
<MooDoo> nottingham for m
<MooDoo> me
<penguin42> hmm I'll have to watch out for when that Manchester one comes around
<AlanBell> penguin42: they are not in a very fixed order
<AlanBell> if you want manchester sooner then I am open to bribery
<penguin42> hehe
<MooDoo> penguin42: you think he's joking ;)
<penguin42> no no, just thinking of what to bribe him with
<AlanBell> really, all it takes is someone to pick a date, I am aiming for roughly one a month, but more often is fine
<AlanBell> just a date when you can certainly go, and be there at least from 8 to 9
<penguin42> yeh, I'll have to think about that - don't do evenings often
<rbsfou> where do you guys usually go in London?
<rbsfou> My partner and i went here the other day as i have an old uni mate who's involved and it was something of a revelation https://london.hackspace.org.uk/
 * jacobw went there on Tuesday
<jacobw> i may have seen you, if it were also there on Tuesday
<rbsfou> jacobw: Are you the shorter younger guy i was talking to about your previous life in telecoms? Yeah it was tuesday we went
<jacobw> rbsfou: yes
<rbsfou> jacobw: ahh ok...thought i'd check out the irc
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> you must be richard?
<rbsfou> yeah i am....Thom is sitting next to me
<slawek> ffjhfhfxdz
<slawek> dsdt nhuh jhyfjh
<mattt> :/
<mfraz74> Evening
<BigRedS> Is there some handy free tool for converting pdfs to whatever the kidnle's native format is?
<brunogirin> BigRedS: calibre can do that
<bigcalm> BigRedS: you can just email PDFs to your kindle address
<bigcalm> (That's what I do)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, but the pdf renders badly 'cause the font's a bit too small for the res of the screen
<BigRedS> I can view it landscape and scroll is a  bit weird, or portrait and squint.
<bigcalm> I see
<BigRedS> brunogirin: Aha! I keep meaning to fiddle with that. Now's probably the time :)
<BigRedS> with some irony, it's Amazon's own EC2 docs I'm trying to read
<brunogirin> hang on, I'm checking that I'm not telling lies here: it can't find the Kindle format in the drop down
<BigRedS> Ah. well, apt's chugging away so I'll see if any other formats it does render better anyway :)
<brunogirin> You should be able to use the MOBI format on the Kindle
<brunogirin> To which Calibre can definitely convert
<BigRedS> ah, nifty
<BigRedS> I've broken apt :/
<BigRedS> so, er, when I've fixed this I'll try it :)
<BigRedS> ta
<mattt> evening
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<BigRedS> oooh. Calibre is not a pretty app...
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-27
<MartijnVdS> but it works!
<ubuntubhoy> Calibre is a full featured mammoth of an app
<jacobw> uupc talked to the creator of calibre a couple of series past
<jacobw> missing private messages is a serious disadvantage of irssi+screen
 * jacobw investigates fnotify
<danfish> morning - happy Morris Dancing day all!
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it shows red numbers in the status bar
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: how can you miss those?
<cliftonts> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> Moo
<cliftonts> just the 3 of us then is it?
<MooDoo> for the moment :), i'm at work
<cliftonts> Me too
<MooDoo> cliftonts: what you do for a living?
<cliftonts> I sell linux systems at computer fairs
<MooDoo> awesome :)
<MooDoo> cliftonts: how is it going?
<cliftonts> first one today actually
<cliftonts> so ask me at about 5pm lol
<MooDoo> roger will do :)  have fun :)
<cliftonts> I'm in Tolworth, Surrey today
<danfish> ah Tolworth - gateway to Surbiton ;)
<MartijnVdS> suborbiton?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: something like that
<MartijnVdS> danfish: It would be great name for the first British space station ;)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: true. There was a British space program once...was actually quite promising and relatively cheap
<MooDoo> i thought there was a british space program of sorts....
<MartijnVdS> Isn't it all part of ESA now?
<danfish> MooDoo: yes - a chap in Guildford called Kevin with an arduino strapped to a large firework :P
<MooDoo> hehe
<MooDoo> hmmmm i think i want to do a documentary or write a book on the ubuntu story ...hmmmmmmm
<occupy64k> Ubuntu: the musical
<MooDoo> lol never thought of it that way
<occupy64k> there is the Jono guitar connection
<MartijnVdS> there's the post-UDS karaoke nights..
<MartijnVdS> well not really karaoke
<occupy64k> heh
<MartijnVdS> more "UDS All-Stars"
<MooDoo> i'll think about it....i have a few ideas
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: time to open up an etherpad document
<MooDoo> hay yeah good idea!
<MooDoo> does ubuntu-uk have one?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ ?
<MooDoo> that's the one.
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> has anybody got the Embedded Intel GMA X4500MHD graphics card? I have it but when I try to watch 1080p movies at 1920 x 1080 resolution with HDMI cable connected to my TV on Ubuntu the laptop struggles and the video stutters
<pr0ph3t> if I watch it on Windows unfortunately it's very smooth instead
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: If you use vlc, and install i965-va-driver and select "Yes, I want hardware acceleration" in the VLC preferences, it should go better
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I'll try that
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: it's in preferences -> (all options, at the bottom) -> codecs -> video codecs -> ffmpeg -> "Hardware decoding"
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: if you install "vainfo" you can see if the library works on your chip
<MartijnVdS> there are also va-api drivers for NVidia and ATi
<pr0ph3t> I wish I had one of those MartijnVdS, thanks by the way, I'm going to try it now
<MartijnVdS> nah hardware h264/mpeg2 decoding will help LOTS
<popey> fluendo have a vaapi driver for intel, nvidia and ati, all in one.
<popey> its pay for and in the software centre i believe
<popey> (morning btw)
<pr0ph3t> morning popey
<MooDoo> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/okvBziSjFX  - thinking about having a go at something
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, what it does is it freezes on a frame occasionally and it starts again after a while blurring the image for a few seconds, do I need to boot maybe to see the difference?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: shouldn't need to
<MooDoo> what a bloody day
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: is the file corrupted?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: what does vainfo say?
<pr0ph3t> there are so many options there though, the file is a 1080p MKV extension x264 video and AC3 sound and DTS which I do not know what it is
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: as long as the video is h264 (=x264), the hardware video decoder should kick in (if you've set the option in the FFMPeg preference screen in  vlc
<MartijnVdS> again, vainfo? :)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, vainfo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/751261/
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: seems like your hardware only supports hardware-decoding of MPEG-2
<MartijnVdS> not h264
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: this is mine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/751262/
<MartijnVdS> "Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) Clarkdale"
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I see what you mean
<pr0ph3t> what annoys me though is that in Windows it works just fine
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, could it be a driver problem then?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: Which version of Ubuntu do you have, and can you post your /var/log/Xorg.0.log on pastebin?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, 11.10 64bit running unity 3d http://paste.ubuntu.com/751265/
<MartijnVdS> [    20.769] (II) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) GM45
<MartijnVdS> should support h.264 decoding in hardware...
<MartijnVdS> "Yes with g45-h264 branch"
<MartijnVdS> ah so it's a separate branch of the code
<MartijnVdS> you'll have find a version of the i965-vaapi-driver
<MartijnVdS> with h264 for 4500hd
<MartijnVdS> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libva/?h=g45-h264
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<pr0ph3t> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> morning pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I guess that is the module I need to compile but I'm confused about which one :S
<pr0ph3t> this? libva-g45-h264.tar.bz2
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I don't know, probably.. but you'd have to compile, etc.
<MartijnVdS> and then it won't be packaged
<MooDoo> how is everyone this morning?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, It's ok if I have to compile it
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, I'm better than I was yesterday thank MooDoo and you?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I'd start with apt-get build-dep [name of va-driver-i965 package]
<MartijnVdS> also, file a bug in launchpad abotu having to do this
<pr0ph3t> ok
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: terrible day at work so far
<pr0ph3t> sorry to hear that MooDoo but then again I've never heard anyone saying "wonderful day today at work!"
<MartijnVdS> gaaf
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: :)
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw and MooDoo
<jacobw> hey brobostigon
<jacobw> how do you do?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: howdo
<brobostigon> jacobw: MooDoo: not bad, alittle cold, otherwise fine. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: stressful day at work so far, but thinking about a little ubuntu project, might come to nothing though
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i hope it comes to something, it might help relieve some stress.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: new job would be good for that :) lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, that isnt so easy to solve.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not really, unless i setup something myself
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good point, yes, :)
<AlanBell> popey: http://www.waverley.gov.uk/news/article/669/cut_down_your_own_christmas_tree
<popey> 17/18 dec is a _touch_ late
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> but it is good fun, I will probably do that again this year
<Myrtti> late?
<Myrtti> in Finland the tree is brought in on Christmas eve, and it stays in until 6th or 13th of Jan, unless people chuck it out at New Years
<popey> we tend to bring one in at the start of december
<Myrtti> yeah, you people are weird :-P
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> that fact was established loooooong time ago :-P
<MooDoo> my neighbour has had their decorations up a week already :S
<Myrtti> oh man, I wonder should I do an Amazon wishlist
<Myrtti> was looking at some books at the trainstation bookshop but couldn't bring myself to buy them
<Rolka> Rolka
<Myrtti> popey: ahahah, Target in US apparently sells/sold Honeybadger t-shirts
<Myrtti> "honey badger vs cobra" at the top, a picture of the two then "honey badger don't care" underneath
<popey> Myrtti: My amazon wishlist is often used by my family when they cant figure out what to get me
<MartijnVdS> I can't get my family to go to amazon :|
<Myrtti> popey: it's a bit different here, people in general don't use amazon... if I make an Amazon wishlist it's only for the UK contingent of my ackquaintances
<Myrtti> I will sell my sister in Finnish equivalent of ebay if I get a new bottle of bath foam or moisturiser for Christmas
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: print it out? ;)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, how do I change from GPU to CPU decoding in VLC?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: turn off the "Hardware acceleration" flag in the Video codecs -> FFMpeg prefefence
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, do you mean the Hardware Decoding we added before?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> hardware = gpu, software = cpu decoding :)
<SuprEngr> o/ [bed late last night - up late today - chip butty on the way for breakfast - nom nom]
 * SuprEngr castigates self for own lifestyle
<RossDoughty> Hello all.
<MooDoo> SuprEngr: :P :P RossDoughty hello :)
<RossDoughty> Hey :)
<SuprEngr> hi MooDoo
<SuprEngr> & hi 2u RossDoughty
<RossDoughty> Hey SuprEngr
<SuprEngr> oooh! naughty BBC News - Prince *of* Wales now apparently known as "Prince Wales" - that'll displease some I know
<RossDoughty> Haha
<SuprEngr> Any advice on sensors-applet in 10.04?  I now want it to monitor HDD temps but can't remember the requirement to enable this.
<SuprEngr> [installed it a while back -it said something like 'to enable this later use dpkg-configure....???]
<SuprEngr> [& hdd temp is already installed... disk utility reports temps so theoretically - all ok?]
<SuprEngr> sorry for immediate quit then -had an unknown/unwanted & uninvited 'server' suddenly appear
<SuprEngr> hmm... chkrootkit & rkhunter show no probs.  has freenode been hacked ?
<MooDoo> i wouldn't of thought so
<SuprEngr> me to - but the sudden appearance of a nasty  & uninvited server/channel worries me.
<SuprEngr> [I would give it's name but that's probably it's intent!
<penguin42> how do you mean a server appearing?
<SuprEngr> did a whois - result - "unknown server"
<penguin42> a whois on what
<penguin42> oh, on here - hmm not sure where that comes from
<SuprEngr> just 1 channel - a link to something [guessing from name] that I won't mention here
<SuprEngr> either way - since closing channel and restart - no reappearance
<Azelphur> lol I think something is memory leaking on my machine, I'm apparently using 9GB of ram \o/
<Azelphur> ah, chrome using 4.3GB ram
<Azelphur> so much for being light xD
<popey> yeah, I get that a lot on my machine
<popey> switched to ff for some stuff
<popey> on my arm laptop I use firefox instead of chrome for this reason
<Azelphur> fun
<brobostigon> i dont remember seeing a arm/linuc chrome build.
<brobostigon> arm/linux*
<popey> well, chromium
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> i dont see why chrome can't be built for arm/linux
<popey> especially given Google plan to make arm based chromebooks AIUI
<brobostigon> i agree, yes.
<penguin42> popey: Indeed it's got a chromium armel deb in: http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/c/chromium-browser/
<popey> indeed, I'm running it here âº
<penguin42> I know there were some ftbfs bugs on and off with it on arm; it's a pain to debug since the link takes ages
<nigelb> hello UK!
<popey> hello nigelb
<nigelb> hey popey :)
<nigelb> Yeah, FF is getting better.
<Laney> nigelb in the UK!
<nigelb> Laney: hah
<popey> Vroom
<nigelb> Hrm, I *may* be in UK early next year.
<popey> whereabouts?
<nigelb> Unsure yet.
<nigelb> Probably around London though.
<Laney> naaaahhh
<nigelb> UK Visa looks like a world of pain though :P
<gord> i swear, every router has a built in function to die after a few months =\
 * Laney eyes the years old WRT54G across the room
<nigelb> heh
 * popey hugs his netgear wndr3700
<gord> mine just randomly doesn't let some things make connections now until i reboot it.. its weird, steam won't connect right now. sometimes mumble. sometimes email
<ali1234> sounds like the ip_conntrack "bug"
 * Nafallo shrugs
<Nafallo> my stuff works ;-)
<Nafallo> various versions of WRTs, running dd-wrt or tomato.
<nigelb> My router has been working for 2 years on stock firmware.
<nigelb> it does die occasionally.
<nigelb> But a restart fixes it.
<Nafallo> mine died ~2w ago. I just changing power strip.
<Nafallo> s/just/was/
<nigelb> Ouch.
<Nafallo> no no. it's better now. the big one on the sofa where I use most of my devices and external hard drives :-)
<Nafallo> and two slots spare on the UK one in the bedroom/
<pikaciu> hi there
<daubers> Evening
<penguin42> I guess it is
<Darael> It certainly is here.  In fact, perhaps I should go and hang about in #ubuntu-in for the next six months...
<penguin42> you mean somewhere warmer?
<Darael> India certainly /is/ warmer, but I was meaning that since I'm not currently /in/ the UK, perhaps I should go and visit the channel for a more appropriate LoCo.
<daubers> my local loco is ubuntu-mars
<penguin42> daubers: Well, I guess someone had to be the onsite support guy for that rover
<daubers> Yup, talk about a long commute!
<daubers> 158 million miles each day certainly does eat the old diesel
<penguin42> yeh, especially when you remember you left the screwdriver at home
<Myrtti> ahahahhahaha
<Myrtti> FACT: Cottage cheese is actually minced meat of moomins
<matti> ?
<Nafallo> hahaha
<matti> #notthatfunny
<Nafallo> hilarious! :-D
<matti> Not really :-)
<matti> Unless you are 5 year old ;)
<Nafallo> you might have to grow up with the finnish speaking moomins to get it ;-)
<Nafallo> like I did
<matti> Ah.
<matti> Thank God I did not ;)
<Nafallo> I can't stop giggling...
<Nafallo> damn it Myrtti, did you have to :-P
<matti> Enjoy yourself ;)
<Nafallo> well, it's better than drooling for the food I just ordered :-)
<MooDoo> moomintroll :D
<MooDoo> the only proper moomins were the fuzzy felt moomins, none of this cartoony rubbish :D
<Nafallo> hrm. actually, it was Swedish with Finnish accents.
<Myrtti> Nafallo: I just saw a picture in Facebook or somewhere about a Swedish shop freezer bin with a sign "MoominfÃ¤rs 6,96kr/kg" or something
<Myrtti> I just can't find it anymore
<Nafallo> Myrtti: share it on my wall when you do :-)
<Nafallo> Myrtti: that way my mum will see it ;-)
<matti> Heh ;)
<matti> You guys are weird ;)
<MooDoo> matti: and that surprises you why? ;)9
<MooDoo> ;)
<matti> Good point.
<matti> ;)
<Nafallo> I should have awesome food in 50mins!
<Nafallo> omnomnom
<Nafallo> this is a good reason to open a bottle of wine :-)
<matti> Deep fried mooins I presume ;)
<Nafallo> crispy duck rolls, crispy seaweed, singapore style noodles and honeycomb ice cream
<matti> Sounds nice ;(
<matti> Ops.
<matti> ;)
<Nafallo> you're not supposed to be sorry about that indeed ;--)
 * penguin42 wonders what makes a noodle singapore style
<Nafallo> s/\-\-/\-/
<Nafallo> a combination of meat, shrimps, vegetables and spices
<Nafallo> all kinds of meat!
<Myrtti> I just had my most marvelous vegan stew
<Myrtti> and I'm not a vegan, I'm just boring
<Nafallo> I'm a little addicted to it though. I think I've ordered the same the last 10 times I've ordered from Noodle St. :-P
<Nafallo> Myrtti: are you sure it was vegan?
 * brobostigon has no idea, what he is doing for tea.
<Myrtti> Nafallo: I made it from scratch myself so yes
<Nafallo> I don't think moomins counts as vegan...
<Myrtti> mirepoix, tomatos and lentils
<Nafallo> hmm. french.
<Nafallo> just like my red wine.
<Nafallo> omnomnom
<Myrtti> Nafallo: celery, carrot and onion basically, tossed in a pan in oil
<Nafallo> Myrtti: yeah. wikipedia told me :-)
<Myrtti> Hairy Bikers told me
<Nafallo> right
 * Nafallo backs off
<Nafallo> hrm
<Nafallo> actualy. they wouldn't harm me. I'm hairy too!
<MarquessDeBonBon> brobostigon: you should have a minute's silence before tea for Speedy.
<brobostigon> MarquessDeBonBon: huh ?
<MarquessDeBonBon> GARY SPEED IS DEAD
<MarquessDeBonBon> Watch the news you insensitive clod.
<brobostigon> who is he?
<AlanBell> who?
<MarquessDeBonBon> You're all insensitive bastards.
<MooDoo> some footy player
<MarquessDeBonBon> AlanBell, you call yourself Welsh.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Yet you don't know who Gary Speed is?
<AlanBell> MarquessDeBonBon: no, I don't
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Speed
<jacobw> real welsh play rugby :|
<MarquessDeBonBon> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15908380.stm
<Nafallo> !speed
<Nafallo> DOH
<Nafallo> thanks lubotu3`
<MooDoo> i guess lubotu3 doesn't care about football either :D
<MooDoo> later all
<Nafallo> very wise
 * AlanBell gets a mention on the Shuttleworth blog
<penguin42> cor - what did you do?
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/918
<AlanBell> I was trying to give the Ubuntu on TV project a bit of guidance in how to share design sketches
<MarquessDeBonBon> AlanBell, congratulations are in order.
<MarquessDeBonBon> You're now the most famous of us all.
<jacobw> AlanBell: do you think performance issues with the architecture of unity, i.e. compiz will hinder integration with high performance televisions?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> for multiple reasons
<AlanBell> firstly, it performs fine
<AlanBell> secondly the TV thing will brobably be Qt/QML based or possibly xbmc based or possibly something different, probably nothing to do with compiz either way
<danfish> AlanBell: I hear there's a debian/xbmc project along those lines for the Raspberry Pi
<Myrtti> wohoo sleet
<AlanBell> danfish: interesting stuff
 * AlanBell wants a Raspberry Pi
 * danfish wants a number of them :)
<danfish> I think my arduino collection will find it's way into a dark cupboard
<jacobw> Qt5 will run on Raspberry Pi
<jacobw> 'Qt Pi' :D
<penguin42> jacobw: Have you seen the insane amount of whizzy graphics on some new TVs - frankly unity is fast compared to one of my TVs
<jacobw> penguin42: i must admit i'm not so well informed on the new developments of smart/connected TV
<penguin42> jacobw: Our Sony bravia's take about 30s to boot and have shaded overlays with things that scroll round to choose different devices etc etc
<penguin42> jacobw: They're Linux based (not sure what else is in there), Panasonic ones seem to run FreeBSD
<AlanBell> sky+ boxes run linux
<danfish> penguin42: I used to have a media PC under the TV, but with the new one it has a rather good dlna client
<AlanBell> they did an over-the-air reflash from BSD to linux
<danfish> AlanBell: a very brave move by Sky!
 * AlanBell would not have wanted to be the person pressing the release button on that one
<iswan> new user?
<penguin42> AlanBell: I guess if they do whole image reflashes for updates anyway then it might be no different; still I wonder how they made the GPL offer during the upgrade
<danfish> AlanBell: I hope he/she got a very nice bonus (and a healthy supply of valium!)
<jacobw> welcome iswan :)
<AlanBell> penguin42: the GPL is in the settings area
<AlanBell> you don't need to accept the GPL, it isn't an EULA
<MarquessDeBonBon> Does Sky+ let you export recordings to USB storage?
<MarquessDeBonBon> It should do this.
<penguin42> AlanBell: Ah true I guess
<penguin42> AlanBell: My Bravia TV came with almost no paper docs, except for 1) A diagram showing you which button on the remote to get the docs and 2) A copy of the GPL and a few other licenses
<Myrtti> Nafallo: found it :-D
<Nafallo> Myrtti: HAHAHA
<AlanBell> MarquessDeBonBon: no, pretty sure it does not
 * penguin42 wonders if MS purposely get MS Visual studio ads on pages about Android dev
<ali1234> of course they do
<ali1234> but what MS doesn't realise is they can have the best development tools and the best OS but it won't matter at all if nobody trusts them
<tombrough> Visual Studio is a good development suite ?
<ali1234> it beats the hell out of eclipse
 * AlanBell uses gedit
<ali1234> i dislike languages that all but require the use of a complex IDE, which is why i don't often write code in java or .net
<ali1234> have you ever tried to develop a java app from scratch using only gedit and command line compilers?
<ali1234> if you make a new project in eclipse, you can't build it without eclipse
<ali1234> cos all you get is an xml file that is processed by some eclipse plugin
<AlanBell> yeah, nasty
<popey> evening
<AlanBell> I only tend to modify bits of things, so I edit one file at a time typically
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> interesting light display going on millbank tower this evening
<AlanBell> I don't do major dev projects any more, when I did it was on Lotus Notes so that was an integrated (and rubbish) IDE anyway
<jacobw> an integrated integrated development environment?
<zleap> hi
<tombrough> I suppose that might be true that "it beats the hell out off Eclipse" but I don't think I would trust the MS compliers and linkers like I trust GNU.
 * daubers is very confused by house buying
<tombrough> buy a tent ...
<tombrough> much less inheritance tax on a tent.
<Darael> tombrough, daubers: uh... yurt++?
<zleap> hey tom
<tombrough> hi zleap
<daubers> Looked at a house twice over the weekend, was almost ready to put down a deposit, looked at the crime statistics, now really not sure, but the more you look at crime statistics the more you realise that EVERYWHERE is crap
<zleap> long time no see / chat
<czajkowski> hmmm cannot see what signs are being displayed on millbank
<czajkowski> most annoying
<czajkowski> but going on for the last hour
<zleap> i am looking for a box thing so I can plug an internal dvd drive into a emachines 1401, (no dvd drive built in)
<zleap> i don't know wjhat to search for on ebuyer
<tombrough> yeah been busy getting my head around Oracle's (very broken)  Xen Management system
<zleap> ah
<zleap> you have been working on that for months
<tombrough> I wanted to buy some "peace and goodwill" for this Christmas but I couldn't find it in any shops. :-(
<zleap> aww
<zleap> anyway any suggestions in to plugging in a internal cd drive thing into a box then inot a pc
<zleap> i can buy external dvd-rw drives, however i have a few internal ones lying around so if  i can make use of those first i will
<zleap> you cando this with hard disks, so i assume its the same for optical devices
<tombrough> usb to ide converter ?
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> but is it possible to have it so i put the dvd drive in a casing too
<zleap> looks nicer
<tombrough> used to be possible to get cases but Im not sure if thats true these days.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> maybe its easier to just spend <25 quid on an external dvd drive
<zleap> i can use it for the netbook then too
<popey> czajkowski: its microsoft/nokia
<popey> I believe
<popey> probably a rehearsal for tomorrow nights launch
<popey> http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-to-take-on-millbank-tower-in-london-to-promote-lumia-devices/
<czajkowski> popey: ahhhh
 * czajkowski didnt realise she could see millbank from the couch 
<czajkowski> always looked right and saw the eye never looked left to millbank
<popey> wonder if Canonical will do anything to help nokia celebrate
<AlanBell> cool, those building 3d projection show things are amazing
<czajkowski> ohhh video on now
<czajkowski> deadly
<czajkowski> popey: it would help if canonical turned off the light on their floor
<czajkowski> fecking the display up
<popey> they have to
<popey> the whole building has to switch off lights
<popey> for the display to work
<Nafallo> czajkowski: well, ms/nokia obviously doesn't know their own schedule ;-)
<czajkowski> popey: ahh ok well most of the lgiths are on tonight
<popey> yeah, because they weren't told to turn off tonight
<popey> its rehearsal
<czajkowski> gotcha
<czajkowski> it's really good actually
<popey> deadmau5 will be there
<popey> as will some celebs
<Nafallo> popey: you sure they are not following time.microsoft.com or something? :-p
<popey> haha
<czajkowski> http://glow-london.blogspot.com/2011/11/glow-on-november-28th.html
<czajkowski> maybe we can move the GLOW event to Millbank :)
<czajkowski> who's deadma5u5
<popey> google
<ali1234> he's the guy that made that song that is used when youtube detects copyright infringement on your audio track
<ali1234> you know that really annoying one that is on all videos ever
<popey> probably would if I heard it
<ali1234> you have
<popey> doesn't spring to mind ho
<popey> âº
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 1st December 12:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | â
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfgc4i7W-68
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm1CvO1IQxY
<nigelb> Did popey just add a snowman to the /topic? :)
<popey> yes
<nigelb> Nice!
<gord> i'm on windows so i can't see it :(
 * nigelb banishes gord 
<nigelb> ;)
<nigelb> But wait, you can install the Ubuntu font in Windows right?
<nigelb> UbuntuMono should let you see it.
<gord> i am using ubuntu, windows is just crap with unicode at the best of times
<nigelb> ah, heh.
<nigelb> Hrm, this thunderbird compiling is going to take a few hours at the least.
<AlanBell> nigelb: do you know how to launch a .xpi from firefox instead of xulrunner?
<AlanBell> expanding the xpi http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx and running firefox --app application.ini doesn't seem to do anything
<nigelb> AlanBell: is it an extension?
<AlanBell> yes
<nigelb> go to about:addons and click the button right next to the search on top right and say "Install Add-on from file"
<nigelb> That should let you install it.
<AlanBell> yeah, I know how to install it
<AlanBell> it is great
<nigelb> Ah, you want it to be associated with firefox?
<nigelb> instead of archive thing?
<AlanBell> it would be nice to have it independently launchable
<nigelb> Because xpi is essentially a compression format, Ubuntu gets archive manager associted with it.
<AlanBell> it really is very little to do with Firefox, it just happens to be based on xul
<AlanBell> but we have no xulrunner any more
<nigelb> Oh.
<nigelb> That I did not know.
<nigelb> I don't use firefox from packages these days.
<AlanBell> because the mozilla release schedule is so fast xulrunner got dropped
<AlanBell> in theory you can use "firefox --app" instead of xulrunner
<popey> --app doesnt show up in firefox --help
<AlanBell> single -
<AlanBell> http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/08/firefox-3-xul-application-runtime/
<AlanBell> firefox -app flibble
<AlanBell> application.ini path not recognized: 'flibble'
<popey> either way it doesnt show up
<AlanBell> it is doing *something* and is looking for an application.ini
<cliftonts> Hi all
<cliftonts> MooDoo: u there?
<cliftonts> ok, is anybody there?
<popey> yes
<cliftonts> wow! life!
<cliftonts> how's it going?
<cliftonts> I assume that means IRC servers?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [oimon] When good disks go bad - http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/when-good-disks-go-bad/
<MarquessDeBonBon> "Store an additional copy on a trusted cloud provider e.g. ubuntu one/amazon s3/dropbox (decide whether to encrypt or not)" lol Dropbox.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Amazon is one of a few credible choices.
<ali1234> i have a stack of disks like that
<ali1234> no anti static bags though
<ali1234> they're just on  a shelf
<popey> same here
<popey> including a couple of SSDs now â¨
<hamitron> popey, you've moved onto some smiley I don't have? :/
<popey> heh, sorry
<ali1234> hmm next to the hard drives i found a bag of pogs and a box full of furry batteries
<nigelb> â¨ <-- that is a cute smiley ;)
 * popey had to google pogs
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-19
<dogmatic69> rm some/git/dir
<dogmatic69> rm: remove write-protected regular file some/git/dir/.git/foo
<dogmatic69> [n]
<dogmatic69> crash...
<dogmatic69> wtf
<dogmatic69> every time.
<dogmatic69> ram just climbs until full, moves onto swap, and then dies.
<dogmatic69> any ideas?
<dogmatic69> This is damn annoying. The serve is running as my DNS, after it crashes mounts to another NAS server hangs my pc and I have to restart everything
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: could there be a circular link in there?
<Darael> What's the aim?  Remove the entire git repo?  Clear the working tree leaving the /repository/ intact?  Something else?
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: its actually when I ctrl + c on the delete
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: what is?
<dogmatic69> Darael: ye, was trying to remove a repo
<Darael> dogmatic69: Then for a start, I'd suggest answering [y] to the question, so that it actually deletes the things in the .git folder.  If nothing else, the query will stop coming up every time.
<dogmatic69> Darael: do you know how many files there are in .git with a large repo?
<Darael> dogmatic69: then how about rm -rf /path/to/repo/.git first?
<dogmatic69> I should have done sudo rm the_dir so it does not ask
<dogmatic69> sudo rm /path/to/repo/ works, but it should not crash
<dogmatic69> and last time this happened, after the reboot eve "cd /path/to/repo/" crashed the server
<dogmatic69> closed the terminal and tried to ssh back in, after a few minutes I got http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1420782388
<dogmatic69> and then it was not locked up because nothing loaded, so was able to 'sudo reboot'
<Tonato> Hi, anyone from London?
<Azelphur> I imagine so, perhaps nobody awake at this time however, I'm sort of near to london
<Tonato> Hi azelphur, Cool, I was looking for an irc from UK, I think this is one...
<Azelphur> it is xD
<Tonato> great
<Azelphur> we're mostly Ubuntu users in the UK, although there are people from various other countries in here too
<Tonato> hm...ubuntu its a OS? isnt it?
<Azelphur> yep
<Tonato> apologies for my ignorance on this
<Azelphur> np :)
<Tonato> I was just looking for an irc or channel related to musicians in uk/london,
<Azelphur> ah
<Tonato> as I am a musician and Id like to chat with other musicians in london
<Azelphur> not too sure about that, I don't imagine there'd be anything on freenode for it, freenode is for open source projects mostly
<Tonato> I understand
<Azelphur> you may also be interested in #opensourcemusicians, they do music with open source software xD
<Azelphur> but arn't all in England obviously, I personally play piano xD
<Tonato> Do u know where I can research about different irc, like a list or something like that?
<Azelphur> you can get lists of channels on the network, but I don't imagine you'd find specifically what you are after on freenode
<Tonato> yes, I know what u mean
<Tonato> I ll googl irc london musicians, or things like that...
<Azelphur> maybe you'll find something, but i doubt it
<Tonato> hm
<Tonato> so do u have any advice on how I can research? thanks man
<Azelphur> no idea on how you'd find a channel for that, I doubt one exists.
<Tonato> hey
<Tonato> its london
<Tonato> it should exist an irc for londoners
<Tonato> and a channel for musicians
<Azelphur> maybe so, maybe there's an irc for musicians, that would be a good thing to look for
<Tonato> ok
<Tonato> thanks dude
<Azelphur> yw :)
<Tonato> see u!! off to sleep now!
<Azelphur> cya
<Tonato> ha.. bye!
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hy MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> hopw ar you this fine morning
<MooDoo> knightwise: at work so not too bad, just wish my eyes would focus :) you ?
<knightwise> downing my second cup of coffee
<knightwise> so i kinda feel like Ripley when she wakes up from cryosleep
<MooDoo> hehe
<MooDoo> makes a change for me to get up before the kids this morning lol
<knightwise> i'm an early bird,
<knightwise> 5.30 am , and i'm up
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah same here
<MooDoo> then again i start work at 7am this week
<MooDoo> morning popey
<knightwise> hey popey  !
<knightwise> TOp of the mornin to ya
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<knightwise> hey daubers
<knightwise> technical question : Say I have 2 netwerkports on my system
<knightwise> one wired
<knightwise> one wifi
<knightwise> and I have 2 routers (my ISP's router) and my own router behind that one
<knightwise> Say i hook up the wifi to my isp's router
<knightwise> and my wired connection to my own router
<MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<knightwise> is it possible to run a firewall one just one nick ? (i dont want my machine to act as a router, but I would like to expose one machine to internet and keep all of my other vm's nicely behind my own router
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo
<TheOpenSourcerer> knightwise: You can assign virtual nics to a nic
<TheOpenSourcerer> eth0:n
<knightwise> but then i would need to plug in the cable .. Where ? on my own lan or on the lan behind my isp ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> You would still want to route (or possibly bridge I guess) but a single nic can handle multiple independent network address ranges
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice weekend?
<popey> ya :)
<popey> you?
<popey> how was the pork?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do go to Morrisons when you get a mo. The veg section is rather amazing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pork burgers were yummy
<TheOpenSourcerer> As was the samphire - even the kids liked it.
<MooDoo> any recommendations on cheap servers for vm installations?  just hardware, for home
<knightwise> hahah :) MooDoo did you listen to kw404 by any chance ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: no ?
<knightwise> its about Proxmox and my guest talks about the system he got for it
<popey> MooDoo, HP Microserver
<MooDoo> thanks popey
<directhex> non-beta tf2 added to steam linux beta :D
<Laney> woot
<czajkowski> morning folks
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello diplo
<diplo> Don't see you so much recently MooDoo, how are things ?
<diplo> Anyone here tried Ubuntu TV ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah trying to rectify that :) things are ok :)
<popey> diplo, ya
<diplo> Was debating trying it popey on reinstall of my revo this week or next
<diplo> Worth a play ?
<popey> not right now, under heavy development as it gets a rewrite
<diplo> kk ta, beta xbmc it is :)
<popey> ya
<diplo> So good weekend all ?
<diplo> And another question, how to track down what is using swap on my vps...
<popey> diplo, you can see that in top
<popey> press O, p, enter
<popey> 24556 alan      20   0 3967m  93m 8052 S    0  1.2  10:01.15 3.8g rhythmbox
<popey> the 3.8g column is swap
<diplo> yeah, I can't see what is causing it though, nothing huge
<diplo> blimey, why is RB using so much swap for you ?
<popey> whats the problem?
<popey> no idea
<popey> i dont believe it anyway :)
<popey> oh that column isnt swap, its how much would be needed if it did all swap out
<mgdm> that's probably just because it's linked to almost every lib on the system
<popey> http://northernmost.org/blog/find-out-what-is-using-your-swap/ is good
<diplo> ta, looking now
<diplo> My vps got up to about 200mb of swap usage when ram was only using 120/140mb
<diplo> Was wondering why that's all
<popey> PID=4089 - Swap used: 117564 - (ubuntuone-syncd )
<popey> main culprit on my laptop
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :-D
<mgdm> using swap space is not bad in itself, it's when it's actively moving things back and forth that things get slow
<popey> ya
<danfish> JamesTait: happy and monday should never been used in the same sentence!
<gord> that reminds me, need more ram. 8gb just isn't enough to run a 3gb VM *and* thunderbird
<JamesTait> danfish, every day is a happy day (for a certain definition of happy).
 * popey also needs more ram
<popey> yay! desktop will take 16GB! http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=H61M-E23&Cat=RAM
<hoover> Morning all
<popey> http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=Thinkpad%20X220&Cat=RAM says x220 wont take it
<popey> others suggest it works
<directhex> x230 claims to support 16G
<directhex> dunno about x220
<SuperMatt> I daren't ask why you need 16Gig of Ram
<SuperMatt> unless you have more than 5 tabs open in firefox
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Komputerbay-PC3-12800-1600MHz-204-Pin-10-10-10-27/dp/B007Q2JQNW/ apparently works
 * Laney has 32
<Laney> feels excessive, and probably is
<popey> SuperMatt, VMs
<SuperMatt> ah yes, fair point
<AlanBell> does unity run accellerated in virtualbox yet?
<SuperMatt> yup
<popey> yes
<SuperMatt> http://askubuntu.com/questions/207813/why-does-an-ubuntu-12-10-guest-in-virtualbox-run-very-very-slowly
<SuperMatt> that link is shamelessly stolen from popey
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/a/214968/612
 * AlanBell sells soul to Oracle and upgrades
<SuperMatt> I love to use libvirt/kvm, but for the life of me I can rarely get the spice stuff working correctly. I think sometimes I just need to use magic to get the right selection of packages.
<czajkowski> popey: any idea why the Restart later button has vanished on updates and forces you to restart machine ?
<ali1234> because free software is not and has never been about choice
<ali1234> stop complaining, you just hate change, etc
<czajkowski> ironic coming from you
<ali1234> yes. satirical irony :)
<popey> czajkowski, ask mpt
<popey> software updater (ick!) is his baby
<diplo> PID=858 - Swap used: 17072 - (named )
<diplo> PID=19122 - Swap used: 36512 - (mysqld )
<diplo> Seems to be biggest 2 users, wonder why using swap over ram
<ali1234> because the memory hasn't been accessed for ages
<ali1234> which is not unusual for mysql
<ali1234> named is probably just leaking
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I don't use it anyhoo, so may just stop it
<diplo> I thought I had already
<AlanBell> yay, I have unity3d in virtualbox without llvmpipe
<SuperMatt> \o/
<AlanBell> one day the host won't steal super and alt from guests
<SuperMatt> there is a bug raised about that
<SuperMatt> in fact, I raised it
<SuperMatt> I think we *might* see something in the next release, though I can't be certain
<SuperMatt> lemme go back over my bugs
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<popey> SuperMatt, its being worked on
<SuperMatt> popey: yarr, I know
<SuperMatt> I just checked my bug and it seems it's likely to be fixed in compiz 0.9.9.0
<SuperMatt> one assumes that means raring will have the fix
<popey> it will have to go to raring first
<popey> before 12.10 and 12.04
<popey> this is normal for SRUs
<AlanBell> and it would be a host fix
<SuperMatt> SRU?
<SuperMatt> clearly not scottish rugby union
<AlanBell> stable release update
<SuperMatt> gothcha
<czajkowski> anyone ever bought from http://www.find-me-a-gift.co.uk ? any bad stories I should know about?
<SuperMatt> never used it myself, so that doesn't really help you
<SuperMatt> sorry bud
<czajkowski> http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.find-me-a-gift.co.uk  1 bad review out of 27
<SuperMatt> might be legit, but I don't often trust online reviews
<czajkowski> nods
<SuperMatt> I always get a sneaky suspicion that the reviews are made up
<czajkowski> I think I'll search for the stuff on amazon and buy from Amazon tbh
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: no faith in people being honest eh ;)
<SuperMatt> not when anyone can create an account and praise/slander someone
<czajkowski> popey: http://launchpad.net/bugs/1033226
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1033226 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "No close option, only restart" [Medium,Triaged]
<popey> well
<popey> fmag is just a way of them getting your amazon affiliate revenue
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/?tag=u1webapp-uk-21 use that instead :D
<czajkowski> ah didnt know that
<czajkowski> found 4 of the gifts I wanted on the fmag site on amazon all sold by fmag but 2 quid more
<czajkowski> popey: everything is in the shopping basket ready for pay day to check out and have them all delivered for xmas :D
<czajkowski> all bar 3 now :s
<theopensourcerer> Here is someone who won't be using Amazon again: http://www.samnazarko.co.uk/?p=31
<SuperMatt> Do amazon actually *have* to refund the licence for windows?
<SuperMatt> If they are considering it as a bundle they're providing, I don't think Amazon would have to give the money back
<dwatkins> I thought you had to contact Microsoft for a Windows refund.
<SuperMatt> it's like saying "I bought it's multipack of crisps, but I don't want the salt and vinegar ones, can I have a refund on them please?"
<dwatkins> It's quite possible to get the refund, a colleague of mine did it as she only ran SuSE on her Dell laptop.
<SuperMatt> I do understand it's possible, but I don't believe that amazon are duty bound to give the refund
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: indeed, I would have gone straight to MS for this
<dwatkins> perhaps it's changed, I found an article from 2010 with an example of getting a refund via Dell.
<popey> the EULA tells you to go to the vendor
<SuperMatt> oh really?
<popey> "âIf you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) for a refund in accordance with Manufacturerâs return policies"
<popey> you basically get given the run-around
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I would say then this person shouldn't be contacting amazon, but contacting samsung instead
<SuperMatt> because they use the term Manufacturer
<popey> and when you do that, the manufacturer tells you to go to the place you bought it
<popey> hence "run around"
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<dwatkins> so you resort to blogging about it, and wishing you'd never bothered :-/
<popey> wonder what happens if you try and get an Ubuntu refund on a Dell :)
<AlanBell> if only you could buy Ubuntu on a Dell to find out
<Daviey> lol
<SuperMatt> I thought you could
<ali1234> you could for a while
<ali1234> then you couldn't
<AlanBell> only in china
<ali1234> but maybe soon you can again
<ali1234> or maybe not
<popey> s/dell/whoever/
<AlanBell> dell do things like wave that sputnik thing about when it is launched, and leave it to become old before letting anyone buy it
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuPre-installed
<popey> never seen that page before..
<diplo> Anyone done anything with ldap before?
<diplo> I've tried a few times and failed at setting it up
<diplo> Any tips/advice/blogs that can be recommended I'd take on :)
<SuperMatt> diplo: have you done the stuff on help.ununtu.com?
<SuperMatt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenLDAPServer
<diplo> I've tried following it a few times but fail each time
<diplo> May I'll try again and then get help when I fail
<diplo> maybe*
<SuperMatt> why oh why didn't I know about watch -d before
<SuperMatt> I've been using watch -n1 for ages
<kirrus> watch -d looks awesome
<popey> i used to use "watch -d cat /proc/mdstat" to watch my RAID arrays rebuild
<popey> now I use btrfs, I don't do that
<jacobw> i've never tried using sata2 and sata3 in the same raid
<jacobw> does it work :|
<SuperMatt> I can't see why not
<SuperMatt> what kind of raid setup would you be using?
<dwatkins> I assume it would force the entire array down to the lower of the available speeds, obviously
<SuperMatt> possibly
<directhex> what kind of raid?
<directhex> i.e. hardware or software?
<Moz> j #clutter
<popey> AlanBell, http://planet.ubuntu-uk.org/  what more text do you want there in the body and/or rss feeds?
<ali1234> so i changed the cpu govenor on my phone from on-demand to conservative and it makes the battery last about 4x longer
<ali1234> turns out the "race-to-idle" thing is nonsense
 * gord remembers the days when he could go to websites without being told twenty times that they use cookies
<BigRedS> jacobw: I've a half-IDE and half-SATA raid
<BigRedS> well, used to have one. It was, er, sloow. But reliable.
<AlanBell> popey: that looks fine
 * bigcalm wanders in
<popey> AlanBell, have fudged the rss feeds too
<AlanBell> great
<Flashtek> gord: yeah, about 6 weeks ago
<gebbione> hi anyone here can suggest how i can find the original password from a dump of a windows domain username:#passwordHash#?
<ali1234> depends on windows version
<gebbione> XP
<ali1234> password hashes are not reversible
<ali1234> you need to crack them
<gebbione> i did run john myhash.txt
<gebbione> still running
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> it will take a long time
<gebbione> Loaded 10 password hashes with no different salts (LM DES [128/128 BS SSE2-16])
<gebbione> guesses: 0  time: 0:07:15:05 (3)  c/s: 223994K  trying: -9F__V9 - -9F__IL
<gebbione> Session aborted
<gebbione> not sure why, it said loaded 10 password hashes when i have 4 lines in the file
<ali1234> no idea
<gebbione> actually 5 lines
<ali1234> it's not something i ever tried to do
<ali1234> you know you can just change the password right?
<gebbione> how
<gebbione> i cannot edit the user when i go in as admin
<gebbione> it wont let me
<gebbione> as it is a domain specific user not a local one
<ali1234> do it on the domain controller?
<gebbione> i cant, this is an old machine, controller and network are off
<gebbione> i just wanted to login with the user to check for any files left before formatting and stuff
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> if it's a computer set for domain login you won't be able to login without beng cnnected to the domain controller anyway
<gebbione> you can, dont need to be connected, your profile info is cached and synched later if the domain controller is not available
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> why can't you just look into the user's file with the administrator account?
<gebbione> i cannot access AppData folder for sure, but i ll double check now
<gebbione> i tried to access that folder and despite having admin i wasnt allowed
<diplo> gebbione: Just add Administrator to the users AppData dir structure
<diplo> not read up, or just boot with a live disc and copy all data off ?
<diplo> Right, off to watch some telly
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<popey> bigcalm, pong!
<bigcalm> Game Over
<popey> hmm?
<bigcalm> See pm
<smarqle> It's so long since I've been here I can't remember my nickserv password :(
<Laney> hunter2
<bigcalm> Hahaha
<bigcalm> *******?
<AlanBell> smarqle: if you ask in #freenode someone will be able to sort it out and send you a reset email
<smarqle> Thanks AlanBell
<smarqle> I might just change my nick an re-register
<bigcalm> You haven't been a long time IRC user if you are considering doing that
<forgetful> Well I used to be long time user but now I'm more of along term absentee
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<forgetful> I was wondering. Will the next Ubuntu release be supporting Windows 8 laptops or should I buy second hand?
<czajkowski> forgetful: what do you mean supporting windows 8 ?
<AlanBell> forgetful: the current release supports uefi and secure boot, I suspect the next one will do too
<bigcalm> christel: ping
<forgetful> Well I'm really taking about how it will deal with secureboot and UEFI
<forgetful> Thanks AlanBell I didn't realise. I haven't bought a new computer for while
<forgetful> Ubuntu works fine on the netbook I have but it's 3 years old
<bigcalm> czajkowski: ping
<czajkowski> pong
<bigcalm> YAy
<popey> we're also back-porting secure boot support to 12.04.2
<popey> due feb next year
<popey> so 12.04, 12.10 and every subsequent release will do secure boot
<bigcalm> Crayon Physics Deluxe runs on my workstation but crashes out on my laptop. Quite disappointing :(
<bigcalm> czajkowski: http://www.sanger.dk/
<bigcalm> Old but cute
<christel> bigcalm: pong
<bigcalm> \o/
<Laney> makes me want to clean it
<MartijnVdS> Laney: That thing you linked on G+, "Sound it Out", is great :)
<Laney> yay, someone watched it
<Laney> I loved those two metal guys
<MartijnVdS> I just started watching. A Quo fan now :)
<MartijnVdS> Liking the background music too
<czajkowski> Laney: did you see V 2.0 is out :)
<Laney> I did
<Laney> kind of lost track of that towards the end
<czajkowski> :(
<bigcalm> mgdm: you awake?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: you were doing the cakephp stuff?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: ?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I've got 2 CakePHP 1.1 projects
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> did I show you my Cake project?
<dogmatic69> just got a site up for it, http://infinitas-cms.org/
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: interesting
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: http://infinitas-cms.org/demos/basic-site jumps
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: the content is displayed, removed and then slid into place
<dogmatic69> ah ye. I saw that before.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: have you done much with phpunit?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: loads, the app has around 2.5k tests
<dogmatic69> only scratching the surface though :/
<dogmatic69> like 10% coverage if I am lucky
<MartijnVdS> Laney: haha, I know people like those metalheads :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: can you mod a IRCC mail please from me
<Azelphur> anyone know how I'd get a newer version of bluez in ubuntu 12.04
<ali1234> what for?
<Azelphur> bugfix that I need
<AlanBell> czajkowski: done it
<ali1234> build it from source then probably
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: great, you might be able to tell me why my tests are being ignored
<ali1234> or install the quantal package
<Azelphur> can I not grab the package from quantal somehow?
<ali1234> sure
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ignored?
<Azelphur> ali1234: how? :P
<czajkowski> AlanBell: thanks
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yep. one mo
<ali1234> http://archive.ubuntu.com/
<Azelphur> fun
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1371123/
<ali1234> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/bluez/
<ali1234> etc
<mgdm> bigcalm: hi
<bigcalm> mgdm: aha, I was wondering if you'd done much with phpunit and might know why some of my tests are being ignored
<mgdm> bigcalm: probably not enough to diagnose, sorry
<bigcalm> Not enough?
<dogmatic69> damn, just read some google paper that says to improve latency by 1ms costs $80m
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: so what is or is not happening
<mgdm> bigcalm: my usage so far has been basic and I've not had that issue
<bigcalm> mgdm: ah, thanks anyway :)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: ah, just saw the comments.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: 2 of the tests just aren't called
<bigcalm> :)
<dogmatic69> try move the bottom one to the top and see
<dogmatic69> possible some code is exiting or something (phpunit can catch exits and keep testing other files.. black magic)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it runs 2 tests and then move on to the next test file
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: this is also true when I move the last test to the top of the list
<dogmatic69> so it will do the last one if first?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yes
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: that is strange
<dogmatic69> never seen that happen before, maybe try update for bugs etc.
 * bigcalm pokes pear
<bigcalm> Lots of updates but no change to the output of phpunit
<AlanBell> czajkowski: done, and ticked the whitelist forever box
<czajkowski> cheers
<bigcalm> popey: is this a sign that you should be using Outlook calendar? ;)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: maybe try stackoverflow
<dogmatic69> or #phpunit maybe
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: humm?
<bigcalm> Oh, right
<dogmatic69> stackoverflow.com
<bigcalm> I've been googling but not seeing results yet :)
<dogmatic69> ye, I searched too. There is nothing
<bigcalm> Plenty of how to skip or ignore tests. None yet about why tests are ignored ;)
<dogmatic69> well its not something easy to search for
<dogmatic69> exactly
<dogmatic69> the 'search' think on nautalis is a real pain in the ass.
<dogmatic69> when you just start typing, down to the right.
<dogmatic69> you cant ctrl+a the text because the box fades when hitting ctrl. Then you start typing again and the old text is there still
<dogmatic69> type + click = fade, type again and text is gone.
<brobostigon> anyone axperience of psychosis in connection with epilepsy ?
<Azelphur> ali1234: so...the feds want to talk to me about bitcoin
<Azelphur> specifically about pirateat40 o.O
<czajkowski> we have feds in the UK?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: with lots of code removal I've narrowed it down to using a dataProvider
<bigcalm> I think that we lack a federation
<daftykins> Azelphur: fame at last? :>
<Azelphur> czajkowski: no, the US feds
<Azelphur> daftykins: indeed, fame \o/
<brobostigon> cool, obama, visiting comunist country, to , aung san suu kyi.
<Azelphur> specifically the securities and exchange commission, they are gathering evidence to go after the guy, so figured I'd provide some.
<bigcalm> Surely you're not meant to be talking about this if you are part of an investigation?
<Azelphur> *shrug* I havn't been told not to talk about anything, they only want to interview people to try and build up a picture of what exactly happened first
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<Azelphur> there are other people who have also been interviewed and published info surrounding that, too
<daftykins> i'm off to do the survey of my new house to be with my old man tomorrow evening, anyone got any suggestions as to stuff to remember to look at? :)
<AlanBell> daftykins: check the swimming pool heater works ;)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> oh that's #1 on the list for sure
<daftykins> i think you're looking at being a multi-millionaire to afford a pool in Guernsey :D
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: you do have some strange use of the dataProviders
<bigcalm> I don't need to use a dataProvider. I just need to have access to the Doctrine EntityManager and interact with the database
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-20
<MooDoo> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<AlanBell> morning
<daubers> Must be November
<daubers> feels like things need to change
<MooDoo> daubers: anything specific?
<AlanBell> like socks?
<MooDoo> or pants?
<daubers> Wondering if it's time to change jobs
<daubers> Getting a bit fed up these days
<MooDoo> daubers: i've been thinking that for 6 years lol
<theopensourcerer> daubers fancy a job in Free Software? ;-)
 * MooDoo wishes he code code lol
<daubers> theopensourcerer: You probably can't afford me...
<daubers> MooDoo: Code is easy
<daubers> People are _hard_
<MooDoo> daubers: never been a good coder
<daubers> MooDoo: I've never been taught to code. The hard bit is learning the underneath stuff, most of the rest is just fluff these days
<daubers> Speaking of which, I really should probab;y sit and learn Java :(
<MooDoo> daubers: I think I'll stick to being a people person :D
<daubers> MooDoo: That's what's driving me potty at the moment
<daubers> Much rather go back to just working with machines
<MooDoo> daubers: why's that?
<daubers> At least when they annoy me I can kick them
<daubers> (the machines, you get in trouble for doing that to people apparently)
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<theopensourcerer> shh everyone it's popey
<popey> yes. shh!
<daubers> popey is the librarian?
<MooDoo> theopensourcerer: it's fine, the recorder is on and pointed at popey shhh
<popey> screw java daubers, learn Go!
<popey> It's the language of the future
<theopensourcerer> Hah - ever read any Terry Pratchett daubers?
 * popey makes wibbley wobbly noises and actions
<daubers> popey: I thought it was still a toy
<daubers> theopensourcerer: Indeed! Though I think calling popey an orangutang is a bit harsh
<daubers> :p
<theopensourcerer> lol - yeah - they have a *lot* more hair
<MooDoo> theopensourcerer: daubers do they extreame iron on discworld?
<theopensourcerer> I don't think there is a lot of ironing done at all, especially in Anhk Morpork
<MooDoo> theopensourcerer: popey should open a extreame ironing guild then....
<theopensourcerer> With the extra "a" in extreme or not?
<AlanBell> I don't think the seamstresses guild get up to much ironing
<MooDoo> theopensourcerer: yes it's ankh morpork, they do things differently there
<theopensourcerer> Does anyone know if rsync is in the habit of leaving temp data lying around after being pushed with some stuff? And if so where does it leave it? It isn't in /tmp
<theopensourcerer> And it isn't in the destination dir either
<daubers> theopensourcerer: I don't think so.... why?
<theopensourcerer> I have a suspiciously growing file system for no reason other than I switched from scp to rsync a few days ago...
<Flashtek> theopensourcerer: rsync would only do that if interrupted part way through
<theopensourcerer> That's what I though Flashtek
<theopensourcerer> s/thought
<theopensourcerer> But this transfer completes without error according to my logs.
<Flashtek> du -sh help ?
<theopensourcerer> Nope.
<popey> are you doing --delete on the rsync?
<popey> and are you copying over the top of files already existing?
<theopensourcerer> df -h has shown an increase since yesterday of several Gigs (overnight rsync copy). The dir in which data the data has been copied is not noticeably bigger.
<popey> without --delete you'll grow
<theopensourcerer> Yes am using --delete popey
<popey> I'd use baobab to see where the disk space has been used
<popey> run baobab on your local machine and point it at the remote box
<theopensourcerer> rsync ${RSYNC_OPTS} -e "ssh ${KEY_OPTS}" ${LDEST}/ ${REMUSER}@${REMHOST}:${DESTDIR}
<theopensourcerer> RSYNC_OPTS="-aqz --delete"
<czajkowski> For the rugby business folks in here http://www.therugbybusinessnetwork.com/
<daubers> theopensourcerer: There is a slight issue with --delete if you read the man page.....
<daubers> theopensourcerer: "This tells rsync to delete extraneous files from the receiving side (ones that arenât on the sending side), but only for the directories that are being synchronized."
<daubers> i.e. if you delete a directory it won't be deleted on the other side
<diplo> Morning all
 * diplo _hates_ school runs!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> theopensourcerer, AlanBell what display (and res) was it you bought for the office?
<theopensourcerer> popey: The old once were Samsung 2343BW (2048x1152). But when we moved we also bought some Viewsonic standard 1920 ones.
<popey> ahh
<AlanBell> the samsungs rotate as well, the viewsonics don't
<theopensourcerer> And they have height adjustment
<directhex> so
<directhex> monitor protip
<directhex> ask yourself which two of the following you want: high resolution; decent 'side features' like rotate or nice on-screen display or height-adjustable stand; money in your pocket
<AlanBell> I like rotate, and high resolution
<theopensourcerer> The sammys were excellent value imho - Â£115?
<theopensourcerer> Not made anymore unfortunately
 * BigRedS likes cheap and high-res
<Laney> been considering some of those cheap ebay ones
<directhex> BigRedS, how about 1440p 27" IPS monitors for <Â£300?
<theopensourcerer> Did you see the new Dell super wide monitor?
<directhex> Laney, there's a hack to the ebay situation, if you want things like a "warranty", but don't want to spend a lot of money
<theopensourcerer> http://accessories.ap.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=au&l=en&cs=audhs1&sku=210-41183&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch
<AlanBell> directhex: where is such a monitor (1440p)
<theopensourcerer> Wide Full-HD 2560 x 1080
<directhex> AlanBell, well, 1440p is the new norm at 27", you'll find it on e.g. dell 2711
<theopensourcerer> That's nice. IPS panel, swivel, tilt and height
<directhex> thing is, check the price on a 27" 1440p IPS screen: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-U2711-Ultrasharp-Premier-Widescreen/dp/B003A4H17S
<directhex> now, small korean companies discovered that they could buy the same IPS panels as dell, on the cheap, from rejected batches - i.e. dell tests one panel from a box of 300, rejects it as defective, and the whole 300 screen box gets disposed of... small companies test all the panels and keep the good ones, to put into their own super-budget displays. same panel as a Â£600 dell, for rather less
<Laney> directhex: yeah?
<BigRedS> directhex: I've lost track fo what counts as 'high' recently, but is it still only 1440 across the top of a 27"?
<directhex> e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-ACHIEVA-27-LED-2560x1440-WQHD-S-IPS-Quad-HD-Monitor-QH270-Lite-/130672717643?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Monitors&hash=item1e6cb36f4b
<AlanBell> BigRedS: nope, that is the vertical
<directhex> BigRedS, 2560x1440
<directhex> so, a lot of korean ebay sellers are flogging the same 27" ips *panel* as dell, strapped into a monitor chassis, for less than Â£250 (plus duty when it lands in the UK)
<directhex> they commonly miss out on some features. e.g. most of the korean specials only have DVI input, and no HDCP
<popey> gosh
<directhex> like that one i linked to
<AlanBell> that is rather nice, but it wouldn't be drivable from my laptop
<directhex> they're generally LED backlit too, which is nice
<theopensourcerer> popey: baobab failed to run on my server... :-(
<directhex> so, anyway, what i'm getting at is there's a middle ground
<popey> you run it locally, and tell it to connect via ssh to the remote box
<theopensourcerer> ~$ baobab
<theopensourcerer> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"
<popey> its a gui app
<theopensourcerer> Yeh I did ssh -X
<popey> no
<popey> its a gui app
<popey> run it locally
<theopensourcerer> OK. Will try from here instead.
<popey> its already on your pc
<directhex> there's a company in the global tech powerhouse of ruislip which is building korean specials, with a 3 year warranty, and multiple inputs, and hdcp
<directhex> so the only downsides versus the Â£600 dell become "lack of nice on-screen display" and "crummy stand"
<theopensourcerer> so it is ;-)
<popey> speakers?
<directhex> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-003-DG
<directhex> - Internal Speaker: Built-in Stereo Speakers
<popey> my point being they'll be crappier than dell?
<popey> adding to the 'only downsides'
<directhex> dell monitors require a "soundbar" accessory for speakers, iirc?
<popey> not that everyone needs speakers in their display of course
<Laney> my monitors are easily the worst part of my PC now
<popey> but when you have crap speakers in your laptop (like I do)
<directhex> http://search.dell.co.uk/1/2/2010-dell-ax510-ultrasharp-and-professional-series-flat-panel-stereo-soundbar.html
<AlanBell> vesa fixings, so the stand isn't much of an issue
<directhex> anyway, point is, the cost difference between digimate and dell is Â£200, for the same LCD panel and the same connectivity
<directhex> so Â£200 buys you a stand and an OSD
<popey> "start doing more with your speakers"
<Laney> kinky
<daubers> popey: I just use the speakers that came with my first (dell) PC. Still pretty good for freebies
<daubers> over 10 y/o freebies too
<popey> yeah, I am doing the same for my desktop
<popey> but want something better for the laptop
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> Used to have 7.1 surround on my old pc
<daubers> Kinda miss that
<daubers> though decent headphones make up for it a bit
<popey> i have decent headphones but dont like wearing them because I miss phone calls, doorbell etc
<popey> and people walk in and scare the crap out of me
<mgdm> get daubers to sort you out with a Jabber-powered doorbell
<daubers> Heh :)
<daubers> mgdm: Can do better than that these days. Got some finished designs for a zigbee powered one
<mgdm> shiny!
<daubers> Where do the cd iso's exist these days? cdimages.ubuntu.com just shows me server cd's for some reason? (Unless I'm looking in the wrong place)
<daubers> Looking here http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/12.10/release/
<daubers> Going to try and install Ubuntu on a 2011 Mac Mini
<directhex> daubers, cd is dead, dude
<directhex> they got rid of horrible bloated mono, and ended up at almost 800mb for the iso
<MooDoo> directhex: only for techs.
<popey> daubers, mini iso
<daubers> popey: Where is said iso :) cdimages seems to be somewhat empty
<Laney> releases.ubuntu.com
<Laney> is where you're more likely to find the image you want
<daubers> Laney: Magic! Many thanks :)
<popey> google mini iso
<Laney> as for mini.iso, that lives in the archive
<popey> first hit
<Laney> dists/somestuff/installer-someotherstuff/somemorestuff/mini.iso
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<popey> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/quantal/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
<Laney> psh, documentation
<Laney> it all must fit in brain
 * Laney hits head harder
<daubers> popey: There is that... but logically one would have thought it would have been in cdimages.
<popey> nah
<Laney> it's built by a separate process
<popey> cdimages isn't supposed to be the place to go
<popey> ubuntu.com/download is the first port of call :)
<daubers> I went there! But remembered there was a mac specific iso somewhere
<daubers> didn't really have any options for it at ubuntu.com/download
<popey> you dont have to use a mac specific iso
<AlanBell> why does amd64+mac exist then?
<daubers> At http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/ there is one that says " This image is adjusted to work properly on Mac systems."
<popey> yup
<AlanBell> are we tied to the confusing file names?
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/37999/what-is-different-about-the-mac-iso-image/612
<SuperMatt> I don't actually know what those differences are
<SuperMatt> and there's the answer to my question
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<popey> so you should be able to use the standard 12.04 image
<AlanBell> for most people an i386 is a computer from the 80s, and doesn't scream "32 bit" (and doesn't run on a 386)
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<daubers> Right ok
<AlanBell> and amd64 doesn't sound like it is of any interest to people who have an intel inside sticker on the box
<popey> i386?
<Laney> ubuntu.com/download does say "32 bit" or "64 bit"
<popey> there is no mention of i386 or amd64 on the download pag...
<popey> as laney says
<SuperMatt> I remember my old days of buying games, checking the box to see if it said "IBM compatible"
<SuperMatt> which was silly because I didn't have an IBM
<SuperMatt> christ, I think my computer was a time machine
<SuperMatt> not the kind that goes through time, but the kind that died out in the 9s0
<SuperMatt> 90s
 * daubers grabs a regular iso instead
<AlanBell> popey: no mention on the page, but you download ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386.iso
<popey> not sure people care about the filename
<theopensourcerer> popey: See G+. Baobab failed terribly. Said my VM has 140.8TB used!
<popey> hmm, do you have lots of things mounted on the VM?
<daubers> theopensourcerer: Got a recursive symlink?
<popey> wow, thats odd
<popey> bet you have ISO images mounted?
<popey> so it's recursively scanning them
<popey> debian bug 398288
<lubotu3> Debian bug 398288 in baobab "baobab: Fails to handle (recursive) bind mounts" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/398288
<popey> maybe not
<AlanBell> we found a 128T kcore file in /proc
<AlanBell> what is that then?
<AlanBell> ls -l /proc/kcore
<theopensourcerer> Yeah - it's that.
<theopensourcerer> There's one in my lappy too
<popey> same here
<theopensourcerer> Wazzat then?
<popey> http://www.novell.com/support/kb/doc.php?id=7004153
<popey> "Note: On 64-bit systems the size of /proc/kcore is even 128TB because that's the absolute limit of what 64-bit systems can allocate.
<popey> "
<popey> I've never had it barf on that file before
<popey> wonder if you can set baobab to exclude that file
<theopensourcerer> But baobab shouldn't be reporting that.
 * AlanBell decides not to delete it
<theopensourcerer> popey: Over ssh? To a vm?
<popey> yeah, doesn't look like you can exclude it
<popey> so ignore that file in your analysis :)
<theopensourcerer> Thing is I'm bored now. It took so long to build that map and it was far from helpful with a 128TB file rather skewing the graph...
<popey> but if you sort by size, you can just dive into the biggest folder and find the culprits
 * theopensourcerer has moved on to other things for the time being and will go back to that one later.
<popey> interestingly it doesn't do it on my desktop
<popey> you didnt do it as root did you?
<theopensourcerer> no
<popey> hmm, odd
<popey> hey ho
<popey> file a bug ;)
<popey> woah, 3.5GB in my /var/log/bootchart
<popey> see, baobab is awesome :)
<popey> ooh, 3.5GB saved in /usr/src too
<popey> wondered why my ssd was a bit full
 * diplo google baobab :) got me interested now
<diplo> ah, dua,, I like that program
<popey> i like that its named after a big tree
<theopensourcerer> An upside down tree no less
<popey> haha, my thunderbird folder is 30GB
 * AlanBell deleted 20GB of stuff
<theopensourcerer> Bloody hell!
<theopensourcerer> My .thunderbird is 5.7GB
<AlanBell> mine is 24.7GB
 * theopensourcerer notes that du -sh was much faster than running baobab
<popey> 29G	.thunderbird/
<popey> :(
<theopensourcerer> that's a lot of pr0n popey
<popey> 18G	./canonical-com.sbd
<theopensourcerer> Exactly.
 * popey compacts
<Daviey> dave@voodoo:/var/log/bootchart$ du -h
<Daviey> 3.2G	.
<Daviey> crikey.
<Daviey> popey: raise a bug for it not log rotating properly.. kktnx
<popey> Daviey, bug 1081066
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1081066 in bootchart (Ubuntu) "Bootchart doesn't logrotate, so eventually fills /var/log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081066
<popey> pls to confirm
<popey> and fix
<diplo> And he did it :P
<diplo> I'd add the Daviey comment as well tbh
<Daviey> popey: Grr, 2-factor lockout :)
<Daviey> popey: want me to sponsor your fix?
<popey> press the blue button!
<Daviey> popey: on my MBP.
<popey> failbook
<popey> I'll test your fix Daviey
<Daviey> popey: appreciate it.
<Dave2> I'll test your fix.
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/118165493193465533929/posts/6HFh4evUKpe
<popey> *boggle*
<popey> that wasn't designed
<popey> wish we could revert that
<SuperMatt> ok, will ubuntu ever do the usr merge, or does it require debian to do it first?
<directhex> ubuntu doesn't want systemd, and systemd is the only reason to do /usr merge
<SuperMatt> but what are the reasons "why not?"
<directhex> canonical already invested in upstart. why change?
<SuperMatt> of course, but would the merge make a difference to upstart?
<ali1234> yeah that file requester thing is terrible
<ali1234> whoever thought it would be a good idea to populate it with a list of recently used files when you're trying to save a new file?
<AlanBell> it doesn't though
<AlanBell> it presents a list of recently used folders
<ali1234> what's the difference?
<AlanBell> the latter is useful
<ali1234> no, it isn't
<ali1234> it might be useful if it was limited to the folders you've accessed in that particular app, but it isn't
<AlanBell> right, so I want to create a new file for something I am working on, I type stuff, hit save, it presents several recent places I have saved stuff and asks me which one I want to save it in, even if those places are scattered round my filesystem or remote
<ali1234> it seems to just be a random list of folders from the computer
<ali1234> it has "/home" in the list here
<ali1234> that directory isn't even writable
<AlanBell> hmm, dunno. It is yet another "is it broken or are the designers on controlled substances?" kind of things again
<ali1234> what is actually useful is bookmarks
<ali1234> i just make one when i start working on a project, then remove it when i am finished
<ali1234> and unlike the 17 "src" directories listed in recent, i actuallyknow where the bookmarks point to
<AlanBell> ah, that is an unfortunate naming convention when context is taken away
<ali1234> i suppose recent is not worse than just defaulting to home direcory
<ali1234> when you use bookmarks
<ali1234> since i'm just going to click on a bookmark either way
<AlanBell> I can fully see why dumping things in /home/alan is not to be encouraged
<ali1234> i thought ignoring the file system structure and just using search to find things was absolutely to be encouraged?
<ali1234> i mean it's basically the only sensible way to use unity
<forgetful> I have a netbook that has built in bluetooth, but it's not recognised by Ubuntu. I tried an external USB one and that works fine. I think the problem maybe it won't wake up, because the function keys to start it don't work under Ubuntu. the ones for Wireless start and stop wireless perfectly. Any ideas how to wake the built in bluetooth?
<dwatkins> forgetful: I assume the bluetooth is enabled in the BIOS.
<dwatkins> Does it work under other operating systems?
<forgetful> Well it was when Windows XP ran on here last week and I haven't changed anything. I suppose I should check that though
<forgetful> Yes it worked under windows XP
<dwatkins> I didn't even realise my netbook had Bluetooth until I noticed it in the specs.
<dwatkins> Does dmesg or lspci mention the bluetooth adapter (possibly lsusb, depending on the type of adapter)
<forgetful> I didn't notice for while, but i want to use BT h/phones
<forgetful> If it worked under XP it must be enabled in BIOS, yes dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> forgetful: I imagine so, yes
<forgetful> bluetooth is internal usb isn't it? So I need lsusb?
<dwatkins> I'm not sure, mine only shows up in dmesg, not lsusb nor lspci (which might be because I've not configured any driver for it)
<dwatkins> Do you know if the chipset is supported by the OS?
<forgetful> No that's what I'm trying to find out now
<dwatkins> have a look at the output of dmesg, it should mention bluetooth in there and tell you the kind of device so you can look it up online
<forgetful> How do I do that grep thing so I can filter the dmesg output - cos there's a lot
<dwatkins> dmesg | grep -i bluetooth
<dwatkins> (case insensitive)
<forgetful> It looks like RFCOMM I've never hard of them
<dwatkins> That's the protocol, I gather.
<forgetful> Ah yeah
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_protocols#Radio_frequency_communication_.28RFCOMM.29 (as you may have just seen)
<forgetful> Ah got it seems to be Intel 6.2.1.800
<forgetful> Seems to be actually made by  broadcom
<popey> AlanBell, the designers weren't consulted apparently
<forgetful> I think I drew the short straw dwatkins
<forgetful> No drivers for that it seems
<dwatkins> oh bah, forgetful; that's a shame
<dwatkins> oly: there may be a thread on ubuntuforums about it
<dwatkins> oops, I meant to type forgetful there ;)
<forgetful> I was reading a forum posts and something else puzzles me. some say you can't use the Mic on this netbook but that's working fine for me
<forgetful> I had to turn it up in sound settings as it was right off, but after that it worked
<ali1234> how can i catch USB flash drive insert events before gnome gets them?
<gord> i doubt you can get them guarunteed before gnome
<gord> well i guess you could modify the kernel
<ali1234> or udev
<ali1234> i need to do it without root though
<ali1234> allow me to explain the problem
<ali1234> i have written a tool which detects when you plug in a flash drive, formats the drive, copies and verifies a set of files, then unmounts the drive
<ali1234> the problem is it fights with nautilus for mounting and unmounting
<ali1234> i can make it wait for nautilus to mount the drive, but then it waits forever if automounting is disabled
<ali1234> i could make it wait a really long time and then give up (like 1 minute) but that kind of defeats the purpose
<ali1234> the time taken by nautilus to mount the drive is really variable
<ali1234> i could make it disable nautilus automounting at startup, but then it is making changes to the user's config which is bad
<ali1234> i could make it put back the change when it exits, but it won't do that if it crashes for some reason, so that's bad too
<ali1234> the only reasonable thing to do is to somehow catch the events before nautilus gets them
<AlanBell> ali1234: can you make your tool a nautilus extension?
<ali1234> i have no idea
<AlanBell> so it happens after nautilus has done its thing and nautilus calls it
<ali1234> considering that it is meant to run non-interactive, probably not
<ali1234> it currently catches events from udisks
<ali1234> on dbus
<ali1234> nautilus must get events from somewhere
<ali1234> i just need to figure out how to insert my own code between "somewhere" and nautilus
<directhex> sigh. #thunderbird on mozilla irc is a graveyard
<dwatkins> not much of a community, then :-/
<ahayzen> Hi, was just running memtest and ran into bug 1071209, surely this sort of bug should be fixed and/or put into the release notes? Andy
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1071209 in memtest86+ (Ubuntu) "memtest86 test #7 fails (random number sequence error)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071209
<ali1234> i guess nobody uses memtest :(
<ali1234> and who is andy?
<ahayzen> me :)
<ali1234> should probably be fixed in the release notes, yeah
<ali1234> you can add release-notes to the bug and put a comment to that effect
<ahayzen> ali1234, how would i do that?
<ali1234> also affects project -> ubuntu-release-notes
<ali1234> i've just done it btw
<ali1234> or not
<ahayzen> uhoh
<ali1234> done :)
<ahayzen> ah there we go
<ahayzen> ali1234, thanks :)
<ahayzen> it is a pretty epic failure ... like accuses ur RAM of failing on nearly every address :-O
<ali1234> yeah, it's bad :(
<ali1234> especially when we tell people to run memtest all the time
<ahayzen> yeah
<ali1234> but never check to see if it actually works
<AlanBell> that could be an expensive bug
<ali1234> yes
<ahayzen> yep could have been
<ahayzen> well still could be for others...if they don't know
<ali1234> btw, i assume you've checked the release notes to confirm it isn't already there :)
<ahayzen> ali1234, couldn't see anything here...https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#Known_Issues ... and couldn't find the bug number
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/charts/videos_views?t=a
<ali1234> why is the top video only 496M views?
<ali1234> psy has over 700M
<ali1234> so does justin beiber
<directhex> ali1234, there's a new youtube ranking algorith which promotes videos viewed by people spending large periods of time watching multiple videos, and punishes videos viewed in isolation
<ali1234> it doesn't say "top vidoes according to our algorithm" it says "most views"
<ali1234> if you scroll to the bottom and change location from "uk" to "worldwide" you get the real results
<ali1234> and worldwide = US apparently - look at the url it sent me to: http://www.youtube.com/charts/videos_views?gl=US&t=a
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, don't you know?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they play the WORLD SERIES there, after all
<directhex> and miss world?
<directhex> miss universe too!
<popey> gosh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6zr6kCPj8 is more popular than I'd imagined
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84WpcmJ28Yg is of course better
<Laney> http://youtu.be/4NO-h9PFum4 no this
<popey> *blink*
<popey> someone broke Laney
 * Laney does the dance
 * MartijnVdS can't wait
 * MartijnVdS will have a proper internet connection next week, just ordered 100/100mbit :)
<ali1234> looks like i'm getting yet another tumbleweed badge
<popey> a what?
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/badges/63/tumbleweed
<AlanBell> and now the dilemma is do you post a link here, thereby reducing your badge possibilities?
<AlanBell> it is like The Game really
<ali1234> i already have the badge, so whatever :/
<ali1234> this is the question i got it for already: http://askubuntu.com/questions/32598/how-to-use-xephyr-without-disabling-access-control-or-using-xdmcp
<popey> you should have added /63 on the end
<popey> to get the announcer badge
<popey> http://stackoverflow.com/badges/63/tumbleweed/63
<popey> maybe not
<popey> ignore me
<ali1234> wut
<popey> :)
<ali1234> you get announcer by using the "share" permalinks: http://askubuntu.com/q/32598/12435
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> 12435 being my user id
<ali1234> but i doubt it works on closed questions
<shauno> your nautilus one; would a sane compromise be to read org.gnome.desktop.media-handling/automount  and wait when it's true?
<ali1234> yeah i suppose that's an ok solution
<ali1234> waiting doesn't always work though
<ali1234> because there's another option "open nautilus automatically to show files"
<ali1234> and if the volume is open in nautilus you can't unmount it
<ali1234> but maybe you can... somehow... but that's a different question
<shauno> right, automount-open under the same path
<ali1234> yeah. i need to prevent both, ideally
<shauno> aware it's less than ideal, but I haven't been under the hood since gnome 2.2-ish
<ali1234> i might just pop a window saying "i am going to permanently disable these settings. reenable them if you want"
<diplo> evening all
<shauno> I get the idea, but udisks didn't exist last time I messed with it :)
<AlanBell> ali1234: just don't do the -ac thing :)
<ali1234> wut
<ali1234> if you don't do the -ac thing, you can't do DISPLAY=:1
<AlanBell> Xephyr -screen 800x600 -retro :1 <- do that in one terminal
<ali1234> you get permission denied
<AlanBell> DISPLAY=:1 xterm <- do that in another
<ali1234> yes, that works now, because Xephyr runs with ac off by default now
<AlanBell> result, xterm in your Xephyr
<ali1234> yeah, and no access control
<AlanBell> ah :(
<AlanBell> so, how do you turn on ac?
<ali1234> +ac i think
<shauno> xephyr is the new xnest?
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> the answer is going to involve xauth and making Xephyr run xterm as a child process, in the same environment
<AlanBell> yeah, it needs to be like a shell
<ali1234> this is something that bugged me in ubuntu for a long time. you can ctrl-alt-f1, log in, and then do DISPLAY=:0 whatever
<ali1234> and it appears on your X11 display
<ali1234> this isn't supposed to work
<ali1234> but fr the longest time, ubuntu ran with -ac and tcp connections disabled to make up for it
<AlanBell> ali1234: lightdm --test-mode
<AlanBell> oh, actually that uses -ac
<AlanBell> nvm
<ali1234> of course :)
<ali1234> also, i didn't want to use a greeter or window manager
<ali1234> the reason i was trying to do it was to develop a window manager
<AlanBell> any particular interesting feature in your window manager?
<ali1234> yes, it would be designed specifically to manage the display on a G19 keyboard
<ali1234> that means 320x240 display, always fullscreen, and window management done with the special buttons on the keyboard
<AlanBell> ah, right
<ali1234> and on the real hardware, instead of xephyr, it would just run xfbdev in the same way
<AlanBell> ok, does that bit work?
<ali1234> what, running xfbdev on g19? sure
<ali1234> but you can't connect any software to it without disabling access control
<AlanBell> which would be bad
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/20100726_003.jpg
<AlanBell> lol
<ali1234> if the machine has no other displays you can put the main operating system on it
<ali1234> with some hacking anyway
<ali1234> but the idea is that it should all run userspace
<ali1234> so launch xfbdev, then launch wm, which would take over the input devices and the framebuffer
<AlanBell> I see
<ali1234> it's all been superceded by gnome15 anyway now, which does not use a kernel framebuffer driver
<ali1234> or a window manager
<ali1234> so it's rather limited
<ali1234> but i only have a clock on the thing anyway, so meh
<ali1234> also why does pidgin say i spelled "superceded" wrong?
<ali1234> superseded
<ali1234> hmm
<AlanBell> with the s is apparently more correct
<ali1234> so wiktionary includes common mispellings, thus propagating them
<AlanBell> and unity is hard coded to :0
<ali1234> really? i doubt that, since it is compiz
<ali1234> unless they've *really* broken compiz this time
<AlanBell> I probably wasn't accurate there
<AlanBell> however you can just type unity on tty0 and it will do a window manager replace on :0
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well maybe DISPLAY is just being set by default now?
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> and I just did DISPLAY=:1 unity
<AlanBell> and it trampled on :0
<ali1234> oh, nice
<ali1234> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1373381/
<ali1234> did you see the warning? (both times?)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1373383/
<AlanBell> I do see the warning normally
<ali1234> ah, well you don't have a :1
<AlanBell> gah, true enough
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1373387/
<ali1234> yeah that's more what i'd expect
<AlanBell> I do have a :2 now
<ali1234> is that a xephyr?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali1234> you need special patches for 3d in xephyr
<ali1234> no idea if they ever made it into ubuntu
<AlanBell> sure, I wasn't expecting it to actually work
<ali1234> the patches were made for meego, since it's UI also required opengl
<ali1234> but they are probably abandoned by now
<ali1234> they should work
<ali1234> llvmpipe should work on 12.10, in theory
<ali1234> actually meego used llvmpipe in xephyr
<ali1234> so i dunno why it doesn't work, tbh
<SuperEngineer> omg... it's back from under the bridge
<ali1234> i'm really happy i found that cpu governor setting in cyanogenmod
<ali1234> i haven't needed to charge the phone yet
<popey> evening
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-21
<ali1234> is there some problem in virtualbox on 12.10 where guests don't get correct dns entries?
<popey> ali1234, not seen that
<n1md4> evening
<n1md4> how can i change the keyboard layout in bash
<n1md4> permanently
<n1md4> it's set to US by mistake
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> n1md4: I'm sure you preferred US? When using qwerty...
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<mungojerry> anyone find inkscape has a difficult learning curve?
<mungojerry> just wanna edit some vector art
<popey> morning
<bigcalm> Evening
<bigcalm> Back from the vet already?
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: I figured it out pretty much through trial and error. What you want to do?
<mungojerry> dogmatic69, seems a bit fiddly to do anything. removing stuff seems to leave a white space rather than transparency behind
<mungojerry> gonna play a bit at lunchtime
<theopensourcerer> mungojerry: There is a decent on-line book from a chap called Tamvong (or something similar) that covers most aspects. But I do know what you mean. It's a complicated tool.
<theopensourcerer> I do like it though.
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: if there is white behind something that means there is another element or its the page background.
<theopensourcerer> You can change the background colour
<dogmatic69> mungojerry: I use inkscape a lot, and generally downloaded vector art is done badly. Loads of duplicated elements on top of each other.
<Ivanka> Morning JamesTait :-)
<JamesTait> Hey Ivanka! :)
 * Ivanka just realised that she never added ubuntu-uk back in when she rebuilt her machine
<JamesTait> :-O
 * Ivanka was slack
<n1md4> BigRedS: True, but there's some oddities that creep in I've noticed, if you don't stick with qwerty.  Therefore, I match the keyboard layout on install, but ''obviously'' switch to dvorak once in X ;)
<AlanBell> hi Ivanka o/
<Ivanka> hi AlanBell :-)
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> linuxmint is looking very pretty these days :o
<popey> SuperMatt, i like the minimal look of elementary
<AlanBell> any laptop recommendations?
<AlanBell> preferably no windows tax, midrange costs
<diplo> popey: Have you tried elementary - Saw a blog ( maybe you posted ) about it the other day
<diplo> Debating giving it a go
<popey> AlanBell, thinkpad, always thinkpad
<AlanBell> where from?
<popey> diplo, briefly
<popey> lenovo online store
<AlanBell> linuxemporium just has old models I think
<popey> with the magic 20% off code
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html thoughts and opinions on this one?
<einonm> Novatech are pretty good - I've bought 4 laptops from them in the past.
<theopensourcerer> No Windows Tax.
<einonm> The only thing I would say is that the cases are a little cheap and feel flimsy
<theopensourcerer> They use Clevo IIRC
<soreau> What about the new cheap google laptops?
<soreau> chromebook or whatever they're calling it
<dwatkins> The Samsung Chromebook looks rather like a Mac, unsurprisingly.
<theopensourcerer> Love the second comment on the Novatech one: "Runs perfectly with Windows 7 and Ubuntu (dual booting)."
<soreau> heh
<dwatkins> theopensourcerer: I'd want to know I could still play my none-Wine-compatible games ;)
<dwatkins> s/none/non/
<soreau> I will assume that's not using GPT partitioning scheme
<theopensourcerer> It's for *work*
<theopensourcerer> It will only have a Free OS on it.
<shauno> other people still make laptops?  I thought it was basically lenovo and apple, with a bunch of companies making kids toys in the background
<theopensourcerer> Novatech don't *make* them
<popey> i need to break into my garage, we've lost the key :(
<theopensourcerer> I have a sledgehammer :-)
<dwatkins> popey: time to learn lockpicking? ;)
<theopensourcerer> Train the cat to go in through a small window and unlock the door from the inside
<popey> need the key for that
<popey> :(
<dwatkins> how about a long piece of wire?
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I should get an internal letterbox cover
<shauno> and a welltrained cat  (never know when it could come in handy)
<AlanBell> we bought the novatech laptop
<czajkowski> AlanBell: now dont break it when you get it playing with orca :p
<einonm> AlanBell: coolio. Hopefully you talked to one of the business sales reps and got some freebies or a discount?..always worth a try!
<theopensourcerer> Hey czajkowski - I read your blog post. How come you didn't mention the back handed remarks about you ;-)
<theopensourcerer> I guess it is because you know we all love you really...
<theopensourcerer> Ahh.
<AlanBell> einonm: we don't buy much stuff now, we thought about doing lots at one point but we are not an interesting customer any more
<einonm> AlanBell: Ah, ok. I only bought 2 at the time I tried...gave them the 'we're going to expand rapidly very soon, and need more later..' etc, got a few quid off and some laptops bags thrown in
<einonm> s/laptops/laptop
<AlanBell> the bag was Â£9.60
<einonm> that's 2 pints, at least.
<AlanBell> yeah, but only one of these https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/269169142937030657/photo/1
<mungojerry> popey, you still happy with thinkpad despite all your breakages?
<mungojerry> diplo, i been using elementary, very nice
<mungojerry> gonna be great
 * theopensourcerer wonders when popey's new found love of snipping things will extend to Sam...
<popey> mungojerry, "all my breakages"?
<popey> I am unhappy about the case cracking
<popey> need to break into garage, not sure how :(
<popey> i could smash the window I guess
<popey> but that won't get me far
<SuperMatt> woo, we may have a business justification for geting a nexus 7 at work
<SuperMatt> does ubuntu work with the non-wifi-only version?
<SuperMatt> as in, can I use a phone network?
<daubers> popey: What are you trying to steak from yourself now?
<daubers> s/steak/steal
<StevenR> popey: only one door?
<popey> we lost the key
<popey> one side door with only one lock
<popey> one main door which has many bolts
<popey> I figure the side door is easiest
<czajkowski> can you pop sam in via the window ...
<popey> popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi
<popey> that door
<popey> no, too small
<popey> and it wont help, its locked
<ali1234> MATE is still horribly broken :(
<ali1234> disappointing
<StevenR> popey: what sort of lock?
<popey> typical bog standard lock
<popey> oh, http://guest:guest@popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi
<Daviey> aww, popey has a mooo.com aswell.
<popey> :)
<theopensourcerer> popey: Smash the glass in the door. It's not double glazed I guess, and could be cheaply replaced in 20mins
<popey> yeah, single glazed
<popey> smashing the window will get me in
<popey> wont open the door
<SuperMatt> could you call up a locksmith?
<SuperMatt> I don't know what the issue is
 * StevenR wonders how best to do encrypted backups (I want the backup to be encrypted, the source is both unencrypted and encrypted, depending what it is)
<StevenR> I've got an openvpn set up to my parents, so I can talk to a box that can talk to everything else in my parents' network
<theopensourcerer> StevenR: Write the backup to an encrypted partition?
<StevenR> theopensourcerer: that's possible at one end, but not the other (the goal is backups of my stuff to there and their stuff to here)
<theopensourcerer> You could probably pipe the stream through a crypto
<theopensourcerer> e.g. tar -cvf - /home | aescrypt -e -p apples - >backup_files.tar.aes
<StevenR> theopensourcerer: true... that leaves me with the problem of incrementals (normally, I'd use rsnapshot, but it doesn't quite work for this)
<theopensourcerer> http://duplicity.nongnu.org/
<danfish> popey: dan
<danfish> oops
<danfish> it's either a lock smith for that door or a reciprocating saw down the door jam
<danfish> StevenR: dustin kirkland's blog has a rather good backup article http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/06/ecryptfs-backup-strategy.html
<StevenR> thanks folks, few option to explore now :)
<ali1234> popey: looks like virtualbox issue from yesterday was a mint bug
<ali1234> hmm wait, disregard that
<ali1234> affects xubuntu as well
<ali1234> but only live cds
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1048783
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged]
<ali1234> it looks like xubuntu has improved quite a bit since last time i tried it
<ali1234> of course looks can be deceiving. the installer just hangs.
<ali1234> cup of tea time
<ali1234> hmm didn't debian switch to xfce as default now? maybe i should try that
<dwatkins> I have lubuntu on my netbook, that uses xfce.
<ali1234> lubuntu uses lxde
<dwatkins> oh, I stand (sit?) corrected
<ali1234> well, installer is still hanging
<mungojerry> popey when you got the laptop it was DOA too wasn't it?
<popey> no, it broke after a week
<mungojerry> and your SSD died?
<popey> ali1234, ahh, i only use bridging
<popey> nope
<mungojerry> ok, so died after 1 week and case breaking
<kvarley> popey: How large is the ubuntu sticker on your laptop? I'm considering getting some but I can't seem to see the dimensions on the ubuntu shop.
<mungojerry> not they best advert though
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> NAT is the default
 * popey looks for a ruler
<popey> its as wide as an iphone :)
<popey> mungojerry, the positive things about the laptop outweigh the negative things
<popey> IMO
<mungojerry> good to hear
<mungojerry> i'm not anti them, i used to have one
<mungojerry> but they are quite ugly and heavy
<popey> I'm a little disappointed
<popey> but would still buy another
<mungojerry> you like the linux support and the battery life?
<popey> yeah
<popey> ali1234, you like the jolla videos then?
<popey> interesting they demo on an n950, easy to hack I imagine
<ali1234> it's a developer only phone, so yeah
<popey> they talked previously about using libhybris to use android kernels / boinc, guess that's not required on n950
<ali1234> i don't really care for the arty farty marketing but their stuff is mer based
<ali1234> as opposed to meego where the community stuff was basically a fork
<ali1234> mer is, in fact, that same fork
<ali1234> how do i get the the console in virtualbox?
<ali1234> or: how do i send ctrl-alt-f1 to a virtualbox guest?
<ali1234> ah, ctrl-f1
<AlanBell> host + F1
<AlanBell> right ctrl normally
<ali1234> yeah, right ctrl
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> so if you try to install 12.10 over mint 14 the installer crashes
<ali1234> at the screen that says "you already have <operating systems> installed"
<popey> interesting
<popey> cjwatson might like to hear about that in #ubuntu-desktop
<popey> I have seen a report from a jouro who had a similar issue
<ali1234> i will reproduce and then report a bug
<ali1234> xfce install takes ages :(
<ali1234> oh, it's because it is tryng to download files even though i told it not to because the computer has no working internet connection
<ali1234> so it is timing out on each one
<ali1234> done 43/117 so far
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1081632
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1081632 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity hangs forever if you try to install on a computer with Mint 14 installed." [Undecided,New]
<gord> how does popey's cat text with no thumbs...
<ali1234> i know right
<ali1234> i would reply to that with "that's nice, but how is my cat doing?"
<ali1234> i don't even care if everyone makes that joke
<popey> :)
<popey> when I pick him up in a bit I will ask if they deliberately report it in the first person
<popey> given I am a pet owner, I am clearly like every other pet owner whose first reaction is "awwwww" then "hmmm"
<xnox> popey: ali1234: all installer bugs please report on #ubuntu-installer. I have commented on your bug report. Without logs it's hard to see what is going on.
<ali1234> on the contrary,it's very easy to see what is going on. just follow the steps to reproduce
<ali1234> then you can have all the logs you want right there
<xnox> Also note that it appears that VirtualBox is giving you broken network. While the indicator shows you have an ip address, ubiquity detects that actually you have no network.
<ali1234> yes, that is also a bug
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1048783
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1048783 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "network name lookups broken in NAT network adaptors" [Low,Triaged]
<xnox> ali1234: no, it is not. I don't have time nor bandwidth to download mint dvd, to install that, as well as to setup virtualbox.
 * xnox uses KVM and official ubuntu images only.
<ali1234> well guess what, i don't have time to learn how ubiquity works and extract logs from a crashed VM...
<ali1234> so i guess it isn't getting fixed
<xnox> ali1234: `ubuntu-bug ubiquity` is all you need to get the logs from it.
<ali1234> uh-huh
<xnox> ali1234: full automatic apport integration to extract all installer logs for developers.
<xnox> ali1234: just click "try ubuntu" start ubiquity to get to that point & open terminal and type that, done.
<xnox> but if you don't have network it will save the logs in a crash file.
<xnox> I believe virtualbox has something to access the VM to retrieve stuff of it.
<ali1234> xnox: ubuntu-bug ubiquity does not work
<ali1234> "The problem cannot be reported: This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party packages and try again."
<xnox> and this is when you are using an official ubuntu image?
<xnox> which image is it?
<ali1234> ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso
<ali1234> 7ad57cadae955bd04019389d4b9c1dcb  ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso
<czajkowski> BigRedS: booo
<xnox> ali1234: broken download?
<xnox> ali1234: wait.... looked at wrong sums.
<ali1234> i dunno. where are the isos?
<xnox> ali1234: no, all is correct. You have the released image.
<xnox> http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/MD5SUMS
<xnox> I will check why ubuntu-bug did not work.
<xnox> ISOs are here http://releases.ubuntu.com/quantal/
<ali1234> which file do you actually need?
<kvarley> popey: Ok, ty :)
<ali12345> lalala xfce
<ali12345> so it looks like they've fixed ALL the bugs
<ali12345> font hinting now works properly, as does dpi and font size
<ali12345> it works properly with light-themes so you can have something that looks good
<ali12345> i can't see any wonkey text *anywhere* which is a first
<ali12345> i dont know if that's down to the theme or fixes
<ali12345> anyway, brb installing this properly :)
<ali1234> hmm. how can i install xubuntu-desktop from official ubuntu install media, without installing unity?
<ali1234> use the server iso?
<ali1234> or minimal iso?
<ali1234> i better test this in vbox first
<mgdm> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=685744#c6 o rly
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 685744 in general "list set of supported extensions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ali1234> mgdm: ya rly?
<mgdm> no wai
<mgdm> etc
<ali1234> extensions cannot reproduce gnome-2 experience, it's why i' installing xfce now that fallback mode is going away for real
<ali1234> gnome-shell core is just too broken, and like unity, it's a horrible monolithic pile of half finished rubbish
<ali1234> you know what i hate more than anything else about gnome-shell? those little rounded corners on the top panel
<ali1234> it's so trivial but they just annoy me
<selinuxium> Any Canonicals about? The new support portal email I just recieved has a broken link to the portal...
<selinuxium> popey ^^^
<popey> hey
<ali1234> how do i manually configure networking on the mini.iso??
<ali1234> ah, "expert install"
<directhex> hit cancel during the dhcp lookup
<directhex> then you can pick manual from the list of "oh bugger, now what" options
<ali1234> can't. dhcp is working, it is virtualbox dns that is broken
<directhex> gotta hit cancel *fast* then
<popey> ali1234, why not set it to bridged mode temporarily?
<ali1234> yeah or select "expert install" in the initial boot menu
<ali1234> popey: because derp
<Seeker`> popey: get in to your garage?
<popey> not yet
<Seeker`> :( still think a flamethrower is the way to go
<mungojerry> i used to have recurring dreams about my garage not locking properly at my parents house
<AlanBell> popey: has it been determined who lost the key yet?
<SuperMatt> who lost which key?
<SuperMatt> oh, the garage key
<popey> no
<ali1234> hmm, still no "development system" item in the mini.iso package selection?
<einonm> popey: is it a small key?
<ali1234> fedora and opensuse both have this :/
<AlanBell> is there a "consumer system" option?
<ali1234> yeah, it's called "ubuntu-desktop"
<einonm> I think you should try asking Elrond. Elrond has the small key.
<ali1234> you can select as many package groups as you want of course
<ali1234> some of the other ones include "video editing suite" and "edubuntu desktop"
<ali1234> but there's absolutely nothing for developers
<ali1234> i thought the sputnik project was supposed to create this feature, but i guess it's only available on the sputnik image for some reason
<AlanBell> would have purchased a sputnik today if they were available to purchase
<ali1234> buy that new uber laptop
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you see that? it's just up your street :)
<Azelphur> what is?
<ali1234> it only has 1080p though
<ali1234> the new system76 $1500 laptop
 * Azelphur has a look
<Azelphur> looks nice
<ali1234> truly a laptop for people who believe that you get what you pay for :)
<ali1234> a laptop which can compete with apple on price :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> ok, that seems to have worked... slightly better than the xubuntu install image
<ali1234> time to install for real i guess
<ali1234> is mini.iso a hybrid?
<ali1234> i guess i'll find out shortly
<roht> sera
<Azelphur> Amazon is doing 3TB drives very cheap, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T3GRLY?t=slicinc-20&tag=slicinc-20
<BigRedS> Anyone familiar with the Nagios XML interface?
<BigRedS> er, specifically how to get to it...
<soreau> Hey guys, is there a webcam program that doesn't suck? Trying cheese here, can't even figure out how to get out of fullscreen :P
<soreau> ok F11 but I think this webcam just sucks
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> now my biggest problem is trying to decide whether to use ubuntu or droid sans
<ali1234> hmm starting to notice little problems
<mgdm> running Unity, if I hit the 'Files' thing in the launcher, where has the option to have a list of items with their details gone?
<mgdm> err, has it been removed from Nautilus?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> actually no
<ali1234> the small icon list view was removed
<mgdm> any idea how I get the details one, with the modification date and all that?
<ali1234> right click in the nautlius window?
<ali1234> ah no, it's in the menus
<ali1234> view -> list
<mgdm> ah yes
<ali1234> oh hang on this might be an old version
<mgdm> I couldn've sworn it used to be in right-click
<mgdm> got it now, ta
<ali1234>  still have compact, that's the one they were going to remove
<mgdm> the menus are not obvious having just switched back to Unity from classic mode
<ali1234> haha yeah
<ali1234> why would you even do that?
<mgdm> classic mode had a few irritating bugs
<ali1234> true enough
<ali1234> i switched to xubuntu instead. it's quite good now
<mgdm> might give that a go later
<mgdm> or go for a 10-year retro thing and use Fluxbox again
<ali1234> the window management is not great
<ali1234> i might have to carry on using compiz
<ali1234> which is a pity, since that was the cause of most of the classic mode bugs
<ali1234> every time i click the button "install additional software" in rhythmbox, it crashes with sig abort
<mgdm> nice
<dogmatic69> anyone know what the number for 'drwxrwxr-x' would be?
<dogmatic69> 0xxx?
<shauno> dogmatic69: I think 775
<dogmatic69> shauno: just found it, 0771. Thanks
<shauno> I think the 1 won't give 'other' read access
<dogmatic69> shauno: ah you are correct. It is rwxrwx--x
<shauno> r,w,x is 4,2,1.  then just add the numbers for the modes you want (eg, r+x is 4+1)
<dogmatic69> shauno: ta. 775 is good.
 * AlanBell dislikes octal permissions
<ali1234> use letters then
<shauno> as far as dirty habits go, they're amongst my better, so they get a free pass for now
<AlanBell> heh, fair enough
<shauno> these pop-up notifications in the top-right.  is there any way to make them go away?  permenantly.
<AlanBell> you could remove notify-osd
<AlanBell> or break it in a variety of ways that don't look nice
<shauno> I found instructions for just disabling the notification that's spamming me in gconf-editor, but nm-applet doesn't appear to have that key anymore
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD is how they are designed to work
<AlanBell> so you can compare stuff that happens with that to see if it is a bug or a feature
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Flood_prevention
<shauno> yeah I was just looking at that. prevents the queue overflowing, but doesn't prevent chinese water torture
<AlanBell> dunno if anyone is still working on that, or if the design objectives have been met
<shauno> solving the wrong problem of course, but I gave up on trying to make sense of network-manager a long time ago
<AlanBell> I really liked the way that gnome-shell keeps a history of the notifications
<AlanBell> why is network-manager sending you notifications?
<ali1234> connect/disconnect network cable
<AlanBell> other than "connected to SSID"
<ali1234> also it spams when there's a cable plugged in to nothing
<ali1234> it also spams if your wifi password is wrong or CRDA disallows the channel of your ap (it just keeps tryng to connect forever)
<shauno> which may be what it looks like.  vmware with a second nic that's dangling atm
<ali1234> basically it spams all the time
<AlanBell> I have seen it repeatedly try to connect to wireless and fail and give notifications
<ali1234> so xfce is pretty good but it has one fatal flaw: like mate it is still gtk2 so indicators don't work except the ones that are still around from gnome2 days, which means volume and NM-applet only
<AlanBell> but I was trying to connect to the wireless, it kind of made sense to do each notification on a connection attempt
<ali1234> for everything else you have to use systray which of course isn't multimonitor
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-22
<ali1234> so no messaging, bluetooth, datetime, etc
<ali1234> printers
<ali1234> battery
<ali1234> oh and session
<shauno> nm-applet keeps giving me an icon that I'd usually associate with 'connecting to wireless', but there is no wireless hardware
<ali1234> xfce has applets that replace some of these, but they're not very good or don't work at all
<AlanBell> shauno: yeah, it does that for wires too, whilst getting IP addres from DHCP
<ali1234> also it tells me i have to restart every single time i install or remove any package at all
<AlanBell> night all o/
<shauno> ah.  so there's no fallback to a locally-assigned (169.254..) address if it believes there's a cable connected but no dhcp reply?
<ali1234> there should be
<Darael> Depends if avahi-autoip is running, doesn't it?
<Darael> Something like that, anyway.
<ali1234> yeah, probably
<shauno> I'm not really fussed if it gets an address or not.  sometimes there's a network there, sometimes there isn't.  I just wish it'd die quietly
<shauno> like how dhclient waits for longer and longer between each poll.  that'd be more sane.
<Darael> It is worth checking if avahi-autoipd is running.  Well, looking up whether that's actually the right thing, and then checking whether it's running.  I'm used to it taking a locally-assigned address within a couple of minutes if there's no DHCP response.
<shauno> closest match is two instances of avahi-daemon
<ali1234> that should do it
<ali1234> i suspect virtualbox is doing something silly like repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the virtual cable
<ali1234> also there's that bug with vbox-nat
<ali1234> where it gives a bad DNS on DHCP
<ali1234> then it looks like the network is connected, but it doesn't work
<ali1234> i think NM does some ping tests to check if you have a real connection
<ali1234> so those might be failing
<shauno> this is vmware with the second nic attached to a non-host network (eg, doesn't connect to my laptop, just other vmware guests on the same net)
<shauno> but I'm not sure how that manifests when it's the only guest running, which is when I get this spam
<ali1234> a bunch of these humble bundle android games are asking for developer level access rights
<ali1234> seems legit :/
<ali1234> waking mars: development tools - test access to protected storage
<directhex> lollerskates
<shauno> completely unrelated question, does anyone know if uk immigration law has any provision for self-employed migrants?
<shauno> it's an odd one.  a freelance writer who's financially self-sufficient irrespective of geography.  so there's no "they took our jobs" angle, their employment remains in the US
<directhex> shauno, i think tory clamp-downs on immigration mean you won't be allowed in. i know webcomic folks have been denied access, even for just conference appearances
<shauno> yeah, looking through the categories I suspected this
<shauno> it's not me, luckily.  but it does seem difficult that they've responded to certain immigration issues by clamping down on the only groups they can control, which tend to be net-gain groups
<diplo> Morning all
<Laney> eufloria from the latest humble android bundle is pretty fun
<directhex> steam sale alert: Waveform, Serious Sam 3, Dungeons of Dredmor, Cogs, And Yet It Moves, World of Goo, Uplink, and Darwinia, are all 75% off (unlikely to go any lower IME)
<diplo> ooh SS3, now is that worth a buy directhex ?
<directhex> these are all games listed on the steam linux store page (which is only visible to beta subscribers, although non-beta people can access all those games anyway)
<directhex> diplo, well, it's probably the best looking linux game in existence right now. me, i prefer more story-based games, and sam is entirely explosion based, but it#s certainly a competent title
<diplo> I used to love playing Serious Sam at i Series lans at 3-4am
<diplo> Bought older ones off steam a little while ago in a sale
<diplo> Hmm, in steam on my laptop it's giving me the option to install SS3 ( I haven't bought it? )
<directhex> the non-uds steam beta came with free serious sam 3
<diplo> ooh result!
<diplo> I don't think my work laptop could handle it though, will wait till I get home
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<popey> directhex, waveform any good?
<directhex> popey, mmm, it's a simplistic indie game. interesting idea, slightly buggy execution. but it's only, like, a quid
<popey> yeah
<diplo> directhex: Operation Flashpoint Franchise ( Red River / Dragon Rising ) any good do you know ?
<daubers> Morning
<gord> diplo, not really, look for ARMA 2
<directhex> diplo, not my style at all
<gord> if you want something good from the steam sales, the walking dead is fantastic, just finished it on my ps3 last night
<diplo> kk ta, looking now
<mungojerry> made this sign to go in the toilets at work..i work with vermin..http://ubuntuone.com/78m6AUR43a2uWjSTJHGEfb
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<diplo> Guys, help if possible or pointers, not ubuntu but you guys are more helpful :)
<diplo> Failed to start message bus: Could not get UID and GID for username "dbus"
<diplo> Would it be safe to add a user, or safe to reinstall dbus to so that it actually re0creates it
<directhex> missing dbus user sounds rather catastrophic
<diplo> http://www.spinics.net/lists/redhat/msg100115.html
<diplo> That's pretty much is it seems what happened, the guy skipped network setup and did it after
<diplo> But no follow up to that email, and haven't found a fix yet
<diplo> Everything else seems to work ok apart from one of my scripts that's dependant on dbus
<diplo> Live server and don't really want to break anything
<diplo> So googling around but haven't found a good answer yet
<DJones> Have any of the rasberry pi seen this? http://pibakeoff.leedshack.com/ MIght be something you're interested in
 * DJones inserts "owners" after the pi
<popey> interesting DJones
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> popey: how does one unmax my terminal window
<czajkowski> cant find the top to see the box any more
<brobostigon> f11
<czajkowski> perfect!
<czajkowski> thanks
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> no idea what combination I did to do that
<popey> F11
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> oh
<czajkowski> so it is
<czajkowski> hmmm
<brobostigon> any good reliable telephone/broadband comparison sites. ?
<czajkowski> clearly moshed the keys in rage
<popey> brobostigon, http://www.uswitch.com/broadband/ ?
<popey> thinkbroadband ?
<brobostigon> that second one is new to me, thank you popey
<popey> AlanBell, https://twitter.com/wsgeeks  know somewhere they might be able to use?
<diplo> AlanBell, libertus.co.uk has an error not loading site at all, not sure why I clicked a link to go there but a FYI :)
<AlanBell> so it does. I expect theopensourcerer broke it
<AlanBell> popey: who is behind that?
<popey> AlanBell, https://twitter.com/JamesFirth i think
<AlanBell> makes sense :)
<tobyisaac> Hi everybody . Toby here
<AlanBell> hi tobyisaac
<tobyisaac> how're you doing ALan
<AlanBell> fine, on a train
<tobyisaac> hahah on a train? wow that's cool. So what device you have with you in the train?
<AlanBell> laptop tethered to android phone
<AlanBell> and here is my stop o/
<tobyisaac> ohh! what country?
<tobyisaac> Alan are you still there?
<AlanBell> tobyisaac: UK. this is the UK channel
<tobyisaac> Ohh nice.
<tobyisaac> i didn't know.. Lol
<shauno> I was curious about that.  I assume some irc clients pick channels based on the locale?
<shauno> I was curious if -uk is chosen by language or location.  because many will pick british english over USian pseudoenglish simply because that's what they're taught
<AlanBell> yeah, some are set to join #ubuntu-GB which redirects here
<AlanBell> GB being the ISO country code in the locale
<shauno> I was just trying to figure out why we tend to get the odd indian overnight.  and then I realised that I have several friends who will specifically opt for british english because this is what they're taught
<AlanBell> possibly
<AlanBell> we get lost ukranians too
<shauno> that makes sense, we stole their tld
<AlanBell> they are UA
<shauno> per ISO 3166-1, they're uk and we're gb
<shauno> but janet bagged .uk before the ukraine hit the internet in any noticable manner
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:UA
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1:UA
<tobyisaac> lol that's great
<tobyisaac> how old are you and how long have you been working with UBUNTU?
<tobyisaac> @shauno, yeah right GB!!!!
<tobyisaac> @alan i'm not surprised it's uk chat though, cause everything i browse and everywhere i go, seems to go through UK IP... Kinda love it though.
<tobyisaac> i'm going for a $reboot guys.. i'll catch ya sooner
<ali1234> here's another hard question: http://askubuntu.com/q/220696/12435
<tobyisaac> i'm back guys..
<dwatkins> I sometimes IRC from a laptop tethered to my phone on the train, but it can be rather slow on the east coast.
<popey> evening all
<dwatkins> ali1234: that seems to be part of the larger question on why things in Linux desktop environments aren't consistent with each other
<dwatkins> ello popey
<ali1234> dwatkins: not really, i'm looking for a technical explanation, not a "well we need to make developer documentation and UI design guides and get everyone to use gtk3"
<tobyisaac> hello everybody. lol
<tobyisaac> how do you tethered to your phone guys?
<dwatkins> ali1234: ah ok cool
<dwatkins> tobyisaac: I just use the hotspot tool on Android
<ali1234> XFCE is moving to gtk3 but it takes time. meanwhile most indicators don't, except for some that have a separate gtk2 port, and some which magically "just work" for reasons that are unclear to me
<tobyisaac> i have no android.. sucks for me huh?
<dwatkins> tobyisaac: what phone do you have?
<tobyisaac> i got blackberry. hahaha
<dwatkins> ah ok, no idea what that's capable of, tobyisaac - I've used aNokia 6110 as a modem and dialled-up before, but that was a while ago...
<tobyisaac> well this blackberry shit's got an hotspot too but only serve as a router.
<ali1234> actually i know why they magically work, what i don't understand is why there's two APIs for making indicators and why anyone would would choose to use the one that sucks
<dwatkins> historical inertia?
<ali1234> it doesn't look that way
<ali1234> the ones that work are all unnofficial ones
<ali1234> the ones that don't are all the official canonical ones
<ali1234> also i don't understand the difference between the two APIs but i suspect one is dbus and the other uses direct linking and dbus
<ali1234> *direct linking and gobject
<AlanBell> ali1234: I expect the canonical ones work perfectly in the scenarios they are tested for
<AlanBell> which is why the third party ones exist and work in other scenarios
<ali1234> so why create another API?
<AlanBell> oh, the whole indicator API, dunno
<AlanBell> probably one of the many things where Canonical decided to do something so gnome decided to invent it differently
<ali1234> nope, this has nothing at all to do with gnome
<ali1234> there are two indicator apis that achieve exactly the same result
<ali1234> if you use one of the APIs, you have to write two versions of the indicator, one for gtk2 and one for gtk3
<ali1234> if you use the other API, you don't
<ali1234> this isn't about eg how empathy talks to messaging indicator either
<AlanBell> is this libindicate vs libappindicator?
<ali1234> it's about how the messaging indicator gets itself onto whatever panel you are using
<ali1234> i'm not sure but i think libappindicator is one of the things involved
<ali1234> i've basically told you everything i know now :)
<ali1234> the ones that "work" seem to go though indicator-appication (which has gtk2/3 versions) while the others seem to hit the lower level api direct
<AlanBell> hmm, looks like you have to give it a Gtk.Menu() and presumably giving a gtk3 menu to a gtk2 desktop is a bad idea
<ali1234> hmm. where as with appindicator you just send a description of the menu, and indicator-application builds it for you?
<AlanBell> that would be my guess
<AlanBell> meh, get with the program and use gtk3 :)
<ali1234> like i said, xfce is moving to gtk3, but it takes time
<ali1234> it won't be done in 4.12
<ali1234> it will be started though
<daubers> hmmm
<daubers> fail 1
<daubers> How do I run the isntaller up in low graphics mode? This is an EFI instllare, so I just have grub asking for kernel options
<ali1234> you could use mini.iso
<daubers> Yes. Wondering if I should do that now
<daubers> Thought there was a vga boot line
<daubers> mini.iso doesn't do efi boot :(
 * daubers attempts with nomodeset
<daubers> Oooh progress
 * MartijnV1S looks at the "track & trace" website
<MartijnV1S> \o/ Fibre NTU + router will be here tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> *happy dance*
 * daubers waits for the spinny pizza to spin...
<MartijnVdS> daubers: 100/100mbit at home! *dance*
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'll be happy if I can get Ubiquity to not just spinny pizza at me...
 * popey points daubers at xnox 
<daubers> popey: This is largley why macs are stupid
<daubers> at least it doesn't just freeze with nomodeset on
<daubers> should have done this from a usb stick rather than a dvd I suppose
<daubers> what does "http" do? It's using 12% of the CPU
<daubers> ah ha!
 * daubers lets it install
<popey> thats apt doing updates surely?
<daubers> Must have been
<daubers> dkms started running at one point too
<daubers> but ubiquity was just sat there at the first "You have space, you have interwebs" screen with the buttons greyed out
<popey> does it have an nvidia card?
<daubers> yes
<daubers> (hence the nomodeset)
<popey> did you tick the "give me non-free badness" box?
<daubers> yes
<popey> ok, so dkms makes sense
 * daubers is bad
<popey> meh
<popey> dude, you've got a mac
<daubers> Would be nice to tell people it's actually doing something....
<popey> you're bad by default :)
<daubers> Well.... yes...
<daubers> But the good news is that my 3d printed brackets hoold the Mac to the bottom of the desk nice and safely :)
<popey> aaaand
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<Daviey> slacker.
<Azelphur> my mouse cursor is annoyingly stuck on the spinny loading icon, any way to force it to stop doing that?
<Azelphur> probably will have to reboot to fix it :(
<daubers> Azelphur: log out/in?
<Azelphur> that's just as bad as a reboot :P
<daubers> :p
<daubers> Bah
<daubers> it's not taken then nomodeset line across
<daubers> how do I change that with an efi boot?
<daubers> plan b
<daubers> back to the livecd
<daubers> Right! Almost out of nvidia hel
<daubers> l
<daubers> Woot!
 * daubers lets everything update
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-23
<directhex> kindle fire is Â£99 today
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> weird how the UK gets the US sales days :)
<directhex> agreed
<daftykins> i feel it's too 'dangerous' to buy a tablet or smartphone now, too many concerns over whether it'll get abandoned sooner rather than later on the OS update fronts
<daftykins> it's perpetuating the disposable approach toward gadgets even more i think
<directhex> well, OS updates are via amazon
<directhex> you're not meant to know it's android underneath
<directhex> it's just "teh kindle"
<daftykins> yeah, that's even worse though
<daftykins> i'd heard from an anandtech podcast that the purpose of the Kindle Fire's browser was to increase updates, and yet it's had none >_<
<ali1234> what's the environment you have to set to run commands without translation?
<ali1234> it's like export LANG=C or something
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/q/220774/12435 if you know, I'm going to bed :)
<daftykins> nn o/
<neuro> daftykins: re abandoned tablets
<neuro> non-iOS tables - correct
<neuro> a kindle fire for Â£109 sounds good (no way would I buy the ad-supported version for the sake of a tenner) but after a play with it, it feels terrible
<Azelphur> neuro: nexus 7
<neuro> also awful
<Azelphur> BLASPHEMY
<neuro> "hey, let's screw the early adopters by bringing out a 32gig model for the same price as the 16gig, yay!"
<Azelphur> apart from that
<Azelphur> but, I'm happy with the 16 that I bought
<neuro> i used mine hard for the first couple of weeks, ended up drifting back to my ipad
<Azelphur> I don't feel particularly screwed, and I have plenty of free space
<neuro> also, similar to the fire, i find the bezel way too large for the form factor
<neuro> and the speaker placement is crap
<neuro> if blackberry did one thing right on the playbook, it was the speakers
<neuro> brilliant front facing stereo ones
<neuro> the only good thing about the nexus is jelly bean and Google Now
<neuro> way better than siri
<MartijnVdS> people use Google Now's voice stuff?!
<shauno> I find this one interesting.  despite what a phone is nominally for, I feel like a complete idiot talking to my phone
<MartijnVdS> so do I.. and in Dutch it's not as accurate as in English
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: thought i was the only mad one up this early lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I'm one time zone to the right.. so I'm cheating
<MooDoo> lol
<diplo> Morning
<MooDoo> morning diplo popey
<popey> morning
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> o/ popeye
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Morning
<MartijnVdS> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2326370093.png
<dwatkins> nice, MartijnVdS - home or work?
<MartijnVdS> home
<dwatkins> haha, your home internet connection is twice as good as mine at work
<MartijnVdS> :)
<dwatkins> oh wow, I get 78 Mbps down and 42.50 Mbps up today, that's a lot better than last time I tested it.
<MartijnVdS> I should be getting 100/100, but I think I'm hitting some overhead and/or speedtest server limits
<dwatkins> saturating the application's ability to process data ;)
<MartijnVdS> or that
<MartijnVdS> it's flash after all
 * dwatkins couldn't possibly comment on that
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<jacobw> hey brobostigon
<jacobw> how's it going?
<brobostigon> jacobw: hi, could be better, and you?
<jacobw> brobostigon: i could also be better
<brobostigon> jacobw: :(
<jacobw> brobostigon: lifes goes, and on, and on :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: yep :)
<jacobw> brobostigon: i was pleased to read this yesterday http://lwn.net/Articles/526082/
<jacobw> brobostigon: my view is that reimplementing the desktop metaphor in a better framework allows evolution
<jacobw> brobostigon: for example, compiz-wall-plugin is from the 'new framework' and is great to use with the desktop metaphor
<brobostigon> jacobw: umm, i havent really thought about it.
<AlanBell> I really like what gnome-shell has done with workspaces
<brobostigon> i agree,
<ali1234> the problem with using extensions on top of gnome-shell is that they will enable a classic mode exactly like the one you get in gnome 2 and completely uncustomizable
<ali1234> basically it will look the same in screenshots but operate completely differently
 * AlanBell has a look at gnome shell extensions
<AlanBell> O.o at "Remove Accessibility" being the most popular extension
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> it just removes the indicator, doesn't turn anything off, but O.o all the same
<ali1234> the comments on that lwn post are funny
<ali1234> gnome supports can only make ad hominem attacks and not answer any questions
<ali1234> and as usual they ignore any serious questions and make hundreds of posts under anything stupid and easy to argue with
<ali1234> this stuff is starting to seriously piss me off to he point i'm considering going back to windows
<SuperMatt> wait, people want to go back to windows because the gnome team have made their DE less configurable. Surely they must release that Windows is even less configurable than that!
<ali1234> yes but microsoft does not make unjustified claims of being open
<ali1234> with windows you at least know what you're getting
<AlanBell> not too bothered about configurability personally
<ali1234> neither am i
<ali1234> i just want somethng that works without having to spend days setting it up
<AlanBell> I would like a consistent and understandable framework
<AlanBell> dunno if Android for the desktop or Chrome OS is going to end up being the thing that wins
<ali1234> android for desktop is not really workable
<ali1234> it barely supports mouse
<ali1234> chrome os might be workable if i could just figure out how to install a terminal client (not a html5 one)
<AlanBell> it isn't there right now
<AlanBell> but I think firefox OS and ChromeOS are probably sensible directions, Google might just throw crazy amounts of effort at android and merge it a bit with chromeOS and get a desktop out of it
<ali1234> i'm really finding it difficult to understand why certain people cry about how unity, cinnamon, mate etc should cooperate more with gnome, when those forks exist because gnome refused to cooperate
<ali1234> same thing is happening with systemd and udev
<ali1234> basically the entire problem is caused because the attitude is "you must contribute only the things we ask for"
<ali1234> oh look, jbicha espousing the joy of keyboard shortcuts
<einonm> ali1234: and the solution to that would be to take your own fork and change it the way you see fit. Is that such a big issue?
<ali1234> einonm: it's not a big issue for me, however, it seems to be an issue for the gnome project who treat any such forks with contempt
<einonm> ali1234: One of the beauties of FOSS forking is that what they think doesn't really matter - you can ignore them
<ali1234> yes, i do ignore them
<ali1234> i also ignore most of the stuff developed for ubuntu for the same reason
<ali1234> the problem then, is that when i ignore them, then suddenly i become the enemy for not "improving" these projects instead of forking them
<einonm> ali1234: I can understand both sides of that really, a fork could offend. But, as I said earlier - it doesn't really matter in the long run. Evolution carries on, and the 'fittest' survive.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> so what am i supposed to do in the short term when there's no usable desktop *at all*
<einonm> Use the command line, obviously :o) Old faithful.
<ali1234> i do use the command line. i have more shell windows than anything else. every single one of these next gen desktop totally fails in this use case
<kvarley> Is the default permissions code 655 ?
<ali1234> http://lwn.net/Articles/526382/
<ali1234> ^ this is a perfect llustration
<ali1234> two days ago i asked jbicha a rhetorical question: "do you think a patch would reverting compiz to 0.8 would be accepted for SRU?"
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: depends on the umask
<shauno> I ditched linux on the desktop years ago. it's had it's day.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you use FreeBSD now?
<shauno> osx on anything that has a screen, linux on anything that doesn't
<ali1234> it's not my responsibility to clean up after regressions introduced for the sake of features i do not want, and if you ask me to do that, yes, i'm going to get annoyed
<ali1234> every time someone says "fix it if you don't like it" what they are saying is "we'll just make new features and you can fix the bugs in our crappy code and like it"
<ali1234> it's particularly annoying when "we don;t have enough resources to test" is used as an excuse for dropping features that work in favour of ones that don't
<ali1234> apparently you do not have the resources to test *at all* so the number of features is irrelevant, because 0/x = 0
<AlanBell> there is testing done, on certain hardware and on certain configurations
<AlanBell> there isn't enough configuration diversity
<ali1234> there are plenty of bugs that aren't hardware specific too
<AlanBell> and I suspect some testing is done on strange edge cases, like multimonitor testing on matching monitors
<ali1234> right across unity and gnome shell and kde 4
<ali1234> another annoying thing is the "everyone complained when gnome 2 was new but now they love it argument" aka the "everyone hated the windows XP UI when it was new but now they want to keep it"
<ali1234> the early versions were just as bad and it basically took 10 years for them to get fixed
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<ali1234> and now it's going to take another 10 years for gnome 3 to get usable, at which point it will be dropped for something rubbish again
<SuperMatt> how many people get paid *just* to work on gnome, and nothing else?
<einonm> ali1234: I put those sort of comments down to the work of the blogosphere, everyone trying to get a headline and some ad revenue for their blog. The important thing is that you still have the choice, and the FOSS freedoms.
<ali1234> einonm: that's fine the trouble is when canonical is paying a community team to basically troll around the internet making these arguments on *any blog post* which is critical of unity
<ali1234> apparently they don't have enough resources for testing, but plenty for astroturfing
<ali1234> but then, denying there is a problem is probably cheaper than actually fixing it
<AlanBell> I do like the engagement of the community team, however I sometimes wonder if the engineers collaborate less because that is someone elses job
<AlanBell> but meh, this is all chatter
<czajkowski> ali1234: that's a bit harsh to say canonical pay people to troll
<czajkowski> look you're not paid and you do a great job of trolling
<ali1234> yet the facts speak for themselves
<einonm> czajkowski: I disagree. Trolls are usually positive about _something_ ;o)
<AlanBell> there is loads of testing done, and the testing team are quite approachable
<ali1234> i had to unfollow jcastro on g+ because 50% of his posts are links to criticism, with encouragement to go and troll the comments
<ali1234> jono and mhall do the same thing
<AlanBell> nah, they are all mostly positive
<ali1234> no, they're not
<czajkowski> Laney: you were right :)
 * Laney offers czajkowski some skittles
<czajkowski> ohhh not had them in donkeys!
<Laney> I don't /actually/ have any, but now I want some :(
<czajkowski> Laney: coming to fosdem?
<czajkowski> Laney: smarties are nicer and kinder to ones teeth
<Laney> hmm, don't know, haven't arranged owt yet
<Laney> would be good though
<Laney> can you get cheap eurostar?
<czajkowski> Laney: lazy bum come on the train!
<czajkowski> yeah bookings opened up 4 weeks ago at least
 * Laney looks
<dogmatic69> That is strange. Update manager popped up but is showing as gedit in the unity bar.
<SuperEngineer> Hi folks. I want to make a USB bootable Knoppix, downloaded Unetbootin on Ubuntu.
<SuperEngineer>  It asks for distro [Knoppix is not there] - anybody able to tell me best selection?
<popey> SuperEngineer, download the knoppix iso from their site?
<popey> http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/torrents/KNOPPIX_V7.0.4CD-2012-08-20-EN.torrent
<SuperEngineer> popey - I have had the iso on disk for a long time - I want to put it on bootable usb
<popey> SuperEngineer, unetbootin can be told to use an iso, you dont have to pick a distro from the list
<popey> just point it at the iso image
<Daviey> unetbootin is spawn of the devil.
<SuperMatt> startup disk creator is awesome.
<SuperMatt> though I don't know why we're calling it that any more
<SuperMatt> could change it to something like "live environment creator"
<SuperEngineer> popey, thanks - will do.
<SuperMatt> or just live disk creator
<jacobw> SuperMatt: disk/drive
<SuperMatt> live drive creator? yeah, I like that
<SuperMatt> SOMEONE GET CANONICAL ON THE BLOWER!
<roll> Anyone heard of a word called BLOATWARE?
<roll> YES
<roll> BLOATWARE
<roll> Ubuntu stands for bloatware.
 * dwatkins yawns
<Laney> hahaha
<dwatkins> it must be time for nursery school to finish
<dogmatic69> *sigh*
<brobostigon> dwatkins: lol :)
<Laney> you shouldn't express your rilement
 * roll Likes chocolate cake with some bloatware.
<Laney> are you a bread roll?
<Laney> or a drum roll?
<dwatkins> rolling on the floor laughing, perhaps
<roll> I am a blotwareroll
<Laney> oh :(
<dwatkins> ah, a not making any sense roll
<Laney> treadmill?
<roll> Why is Ubuntu so overrated?
<roll> It seems that everyone loves it.
<dwatkins> isn't being overrated entirely subjective as analyses go?
<dogmatic69> roll: based on your passed messages, I would not say everyone.
<dwatkins> like saying that strawberries are overrated
<dwatkins> oh no, some people don't like Ubuntu, call the newspapers!
<dwatkins> I'm not seeing any facts in this discussion.
<SuperMatt> I would say that it's not overrated, it's just popular because it is the most complete Linux distro out there, with respect to usability and design
<roll> But Ubuntu has problems too
<dwatkins> such as?
<SuperMatt> sure, it does, but the user experience is unparalled compared to other distros
<dogmatic69> software with issues, imagine that...
<dwatkins> haha
<roll> so yea
<dwatkins> which issues are you referring to, roll?
<roll> Ubuntu has issues, regardless whether you like it or not. It is not a puppy.
<dwatkins> which issues are you referring to, roll?
<dogmatic69> roll: can you name any software that does not have issues?
<roll> It is slow, energy inefficient, and has too much in it.
<AlanBell> feel free not to use it
<dwatkins> Last time I ran Ubuntu it was faster than certain other operating systems on a given machine. It had better energy management than that OS, too.
<SuperMatt> I would say that the first point is hardware dependant, and the last is subjective
<dwatkins> What does 'too much in it' mean? If hard disk space is an issue, there's always lubuntu or other versions.
<popey> don't feed the t(roll)
<dogmatic69> popey: but hes hungry
<roll> I think you only say that because your high spec pc can handle everything.
<AlanBell> indeed
<dwatkins> popey: I was not running ubuntu on a high spec pc
<roll> Not everyone is blessed with pc that can handle the pressure of Ubuntu.
<roll> I like Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> my netbook is slow and old, so I run lubuntu.
<roll> It is slow because Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> that makes no sense.
 * SuperEngineer has discovered watching theF1 practice session is far more interesting than watching a troll blame itself for it's own failings
 * dwatkins goes back to solving customer's problems
<diplo> roll: I think your on about the Window manager as the issue, not the core of ubuntu
<diplo> Try a different desktop like xfce/lxde etc
<roll> Windows is another story.
<dwatkins> if Windows is slow too, that would suggest you definitely have a slow PC
<roll> Windows is for anyone who is willing to get themselves hacked and join a botnet.
<diplo> Oh please....
<dwatkins>  /ignore roll
<SuperEngineer> back later folks [I can find better ways of being amused]
<diplo> All OS's are ok, I use all 3 and they all have there place
<SuperEngineer> & well said dwatkins
<roll> Windows lacks the defences against hackers.
<SuperMatt> I would disagree
<SuperMatt> Windows *users* lack defences against hackers
<SuperMatt> some people used windows firewall free for years and never once got a virus
<roll> Anyone with little RE knowledge and ASM can create exploits for Win.
<roll> Ubuntu has the defences but lacks the efficiency.
<diplo> roll: Please stop :)
<SuperMatt> awww, but I want to know what he thinks is inefficient
<SuperMatt> because my workflow fits extremely well with unity, and I can't imagine it possibly being any faster
<dwatkins> It's time I cycled home inefficiently, with gears.
<roll> Seems that Ubuntu is trying gard, but not hard enough.
<SuperMatt> oh, I see
<SuperMatt> you're blaming them for not having enough staff, because their budget is still limited while they can't make much money from it
<roll> Having big sponsors, doesnt necessarily mean having good production. We have seen over the years, it has gone from bloatware to Bloattware.
<diplo> Well that was some entertainment for time before home, but I will bid you good night peeps :)
<popey> ttfn
<roll> I believe that some of you have a false sense of atraction to Ubuntu, because of its marketing.
<`|`roll> you might need to recheck your beliefs.
 * popey checks his beliefs
<`|`roll> Your beliefs are nothing but a bunch of opinions based on a OS that is outdated and not in fully operational state.
<AlanBell> well I think you have had your 15 minutes of fame now
<AlanBell> bye o/
<`|`roll> alanbell :)
<AlanBell> strange person
<popey> i would like to see a kickban on sight for that person now please
<popey> aaast, mrmist-, EXORCIST, roll and `|`roll.
<SuperEngineer> whoopee.. it's gone. [thought I'd better disappear when it started PM'ing me]
<SuperMatt> popey: I'd love to do that, but you have to give me ops :P
<SuperMatt> fortunately he hasn't found his way into the one I am an op for
<einonm> To be fair, he did have a point about the marketing being bad. Just look at the next meeting date listed in the room topic ^^^^
<AlanBell> einonm: how is that marketing?
<mgdm> I like how you conflate one out of date topic in a community channel with Ubuntu's marketing
<SuperMatt> I think Valve are currently marketing Ubuntu more than Canonical are
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2012 20:00
<Laney> 2013?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00
<AlanBell> how are Valve marketing it?
<SuperEngineer> Chanserv gives buy-everyone-a-drink-operator status to AlanBell
<AlanBell> :)
<einonm> I wasn't being entirely serious about the marketing, but to answer AlanBell's question, have you ever tried one of those timeshare sales events? Get you in the room, and then wham! The hard sell.
<AlanBell> yeah, we should do that kind of thing more often
<AlanBell> so what are Valve doing to market it then? I wouldn't expect to see any of their marketing myself but are other people seeing stuff?
<einonm> Just a few blogs and news sites, but that would probably be preaching to the converted. But there is this site too I've stumbled across - http://steamforlinux.com/
<popey> i dont think thats valve doing the work
<popey> but their fans / users
<gord> when it comes to video game stuff, the users are a very internet savvy bunch, if your product is good enough you don't need to market it at all. look at minecraft
<directhex> mmm, sadly inaccurate
<directhex> many critical successes have been financial flops
<directhex> minecraft is a rare breakaway hit
<gord> not financial flops because of marketing, compound reasons
<gord> what i'm saying is that if your product is good enough, people get the word out, you don't have to. that doesn't guaruntee anti-floppage
<directhex> well marketed games usually sell well
<directhex> poorly marketed ones don't
<directhex> regardless of quality
<gord> i'm not talking about what sells well
 * popey is testing Dear Esther in Linux
<popey> they're shipping it as a wine bottle thing
<gord> that game conned me :( i thought it was an actual game with puzzles
<directhex> i hated dear esther
<popey> yeah, it's not really a game
<gord> its a nice wander around scotland
<popey> it has a "multicore rendering" option which kills my HD2000 intel thing
<directhex> pretentious arthouse bull
<popey> hah
<popey> i was going to suggest to the guy that you might test it
<popey> i wont now :)
<SuperEngineer> If I don't "do" online gaming is there any point in me keeping Mumble on disk?
<SuperEngineer>  [only used it to set sound levels for new microphone]
<popey> i use mumble sometimes just for chitter chatter
<popey> not gaming related
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: loads of non-gamers use mumble. The better question would be "Do I use this?"
<popey> in fact I never use mumble for gaming chat
 * SuperEngineer is getting the hint here :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I should start a blog about all the weird bitcoin trades I do, yesterday I apparently saved an arranged marriage o.O
<popey> one game I quite like is pax-britannica
<popey> directhex / gord do you know of any other "one key" games like that?
<dwatkins> cannabalt?
<popey> oh yes, i like that too
<popey> have that on my nexus 7
<directhex> popey, sorry, "one key"?
<dwatkins> tiny wings?
<popey> yeah, each player basically has one button
<popey> so as you hold it down something charges up (in pax) and you let go at a certain point
<popey> let go early you build a small fighter, let go later you build a bigger one
<gord> i know of single player one button games, but not multiplayer games
<popey> that looks cute
<dwatkins> it's superb, popey
<dwatkins> really smooth
<directhex> popey, sorry, i lack much knowledge in this area.
<popey> np :)
<dwatkins> some of the Llamasoft iOS games are one-tap, too
<popey> amazes me he's still making games
<dwatkins> he hangs out on irc sometimes too
<dwatkins> Yak, that is, Giles too occasionally.
<dwatkins> they have a lovely farmhouse in deepest Wales
<directhex> i don't really know much about mobile games
<directhex> not much choice on wp7 ;)
<gord> that rayman game was good for a bit
<directhex> i never really played portable games generally, on game boy etc either
<gord> and uh, the jetpack one, you have a jetpack in it
<directhex> doodle jump?
<gord> noo
<gord> jetpack.. man.. guy
<gord> ah jetpack joyride
<popey> serious sam 3 isn't gonna work on my intel 2000 is it?
<dwatkins> relevant jetpack joyride achievement image: http://i.imgur.com/E0hwq.jpg
<gord> it might do, dialed down
<popey> hmm, starts okay
<popey> at 1080p, looks like its auto set some detail low
<gord> its a game known for having huge hoards of enemies running at you with explosions everywhere, so uh, wait till that happens and report back ;)
<popey> :)
<directhex> yeah, what gord said
<directhex> IMHO intel is now almost usable at low res. but 1080p? fugeddaboutit
<popey> yeah, framerate is a bit sucky
<popey> and detail is really sparse
<popey> this is fun :)
<popey> smooshing aliens with a sledgehammer
 * MartijnVdS was just playing The Walking Dead (on Windows, yes)
<directhex> http://blogs.unity3d.com/2012/11/22/linux-publishing-in-unity-4-0/
<MartijnVdS> I think Stephen Fry is trying 11.10: https://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/272048483723264000
<Azelphur> 3TB drives up on Amazon for $90, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=VEJQODWfEeK7yers-pUvpQclY1_QJXI3_0_0_0&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16822148844
<Azelphur> probably won't last long
<MartijnVdS> just bought 4 2TB disks for â¬89 each
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ouch :P
<MartijnVdS> this model's little brother
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: meh, I'll upgrade when my 4-disk NAS is full :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I nabbed myself 2 of them (I have a US dude that will ship them to UK folks for a small fee)
<MartijnVdS> //192.168.178.250/photo     5,4T     792G  4,6T  15% /mnt/photo
<MartijnVdS> ^ NAS (RAID5) still has 4.6T free
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/4EGzkSQq I eat space :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: scenester ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
 * MartijnVdS removes stuff sometimes
 * dwatkins is curious what kinds of NAS device people use
<MartijnVdS> Synology DS413j
<dwatkins> I'm very tempted to get one of those, MartijnVdS.
<dwatkins> my oh my they're expensive, though
<brobostigon> in irssi, /layout save. :)
<dwatkins> ooh, thanks brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening diplo
 * daubers loads debian onto the eeepc
<brobostigon> :)
<daubers> It's off to spend the rest of it's life running the reprap
<diplo> Anyone recommend a cheap tablet for my kids for xmas
<diplo> Cheap but ok for a 6 year old
<directhex> kindle fire is Â£99 TODAY.
<directhex> wait and it won't be
<directhex> sorry, until monday it's Â£99
<directhex> well, Â£109 without banner ads on the lock screen
<directhex> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0083Q04M2/
<diplo> Hmm, thinking more the cheaper ones ( very young kids ) I want a decent ish one for me but worried with them
<diplo> http://www.lightinthebox.com/c/android-tablets_4781/All-3?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_search&gclid=COP0ucKM5rMCFaTMtAodMQoASQ
<directhex> regular android sucks for small kids, due to the bottom-of-screen issue
<diplo> The kids love my brothers ipad, I'd love to get them one but not sure I can afford Â£200 for 2 :(
<directhex> read http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2012/03/12/dads-plea-developers-ipad-apps-children/ then consider that upstream android puts un-disableable controls at the bottom of the screen (home button, menu button, etc)
<diplo> Cant believe he has a 2 year old on a ipad
<diplo> I didnt let my kids close to that stuff till they were 4+
<diplo> Wish I had more cash really to buy them something better
<directhex> so what's the budget?
<diplo> Really haven't set one, wanted to see what others recommended and then work out if it's affordable, just didn't want to buy rubbish and regret it after
<diplo> Just worried if I only buy one the other will complain :)
<diplo> Have you played with the Fire directhex ?
<directhex> not personally. but i've prodded various Â£80 no-name tablets
<directhex> i.e. the contents of your link
<diplo> One of my mates bought his 4yo a Â£50-60 one, resistive.. kid loves it but i think it's annoying because of the resistive, most of those though were capacitive i think
<diplo> Wish someone would stock some no names around here to play with
<directhex> pc world & maplin!
<diplo> really.. ooh, a trip to bristol tomorrow then may be in order
<directhex> two things should be assumed with a no-name: the warranty will suck, and the OS will never get updated
<directhex> so as a starter, you need to assume that for the entire lifetime of the device, it will never run apps for a more recent version of android
<diplo> yeah, tbh if it lasts a year or so I'd be happy
<directhex> unless you somehow badger a custom ROM onto it, and the community for a random no-name tablet isn't huge
<diplo> I'll be better off by then and the kids will be older
<diplo> yeah i did think that, want to get myself a nexus 10 probably when they come out
<diplo> Wanted to use them as a video player for the car when we do trips to plymouth etc
<diplo> Saves me buying a dvd thing for it
<directhex> the chip in most of these sucks, too. they basically all use the same bargain basement CPU, the Allwinner A1x
<directhex> the embedded arm guy in the office shudders when i mention the A10
<diplo> So basically the Fire or something above is recommended or don't bother ?
<diplo> Maybe I just get the 10" for me and let the boys use it
<directhex> a couple of the Â£96 tablets claim a Samsung CPU. but also have Android 2.3
<diplo> I'll try maplins and see what they are like, if I'm not sold I'll buy them something else
<diplo> Liked the idea of a table though
<diplo> tablet*
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-24
<Chiy0> Ubuntu stinks!
<ldoru> FUCK
<ldoru> fuck
<directhex> steam sale alert: Trine 2 is 75% off, and is a currently available linux beta game
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski
<d0m> wow, where did the morning go?
<d0m> also, hello
<jacobw> afternoonings
<penguin42> hey
<penguin42> anyone using a thinkpad w520 on Quantal - and have the external VGA working?
<DJones> popey: One for you and any other rasberry pi owners https://twitter.com/danfrisk - Do you have a Raspberry Pi? We're going to make a special Minecraft version (based on PE) for it! -  Minecraft Pi edition will be free, it's a slightly cut down version of PE. With added api.
<popey> blimey
<DJones> How well do you think it will run on the pi
<popey> well it runs on phones
<popey> and the pi is about the same spec as an iphone 3g
<DJones> Should be fairly decent then
<DJones> Must admit, on a phone/tablet, its not outstanding due to the controls & not having a mouse
<DJones> But it is is playable and interesting
<czajkowski> xnox: ping
<czajkowski> xnox: on shutting down on my machine it now takes about 20 seconds
<czajkowski> boot up takes 4
<czajkowski> any ideas
<andylockran> hey guys, any recommendations for an Ubuntu laptop, hdmi :)
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski: magnetic hdd or SSD? if ssd could be write lag [only a guess], if normal hdd...hmmm
<DJones> andylockran: I've got a HP G72, works great, probably 18 months old
<DJones> czajkowski: 4 second boot up? Thats not something to complain about
<czajkowski> SSD
<czajkowski> DJones: oh no that I love
<czajkowski> it's the shutting down I've issues with
<DJones> 20 seconds seems pretty quick
<SuperEngineer> I'd be happy with those figures sometimes....
<SuperEngineer> but it *may well be* write lag on sut down
<SuperEngineer> *shut
<SuperEngineer> czajkowski: [btw - thought your blog post re women [& comments aimed at] was rather well written]
<SuperEngineer> ..good point - well made
<czajkowski> Thank you
<popey> andylockran, thinkpad, standard answer
<directhex> good tool to record a full-screen desktop?
<popey> kazam
<penguin42> popey: Be careful, some of the thinkpads are a bit of a fight, the W520 I have on my lap is an nvidia/intel hybrid, it's a real fight to get to work on Quantal
<popey> i would naturally avoid all hybrids
<penguin42> popey: You can switch it out of hybrid, but the external VGA is only wired to the Nvidia hardware
<popey> sounds rubbish :)
<penguin42> popey: Nod :-(   I'm getting closer to having it work with Nouveau, it's looking like it requires noapic, and even then it's getting some startup hangs if I use kubuntu GL
<penguin42> popey: Not my choice of hardware
<mungojerry_> lol @ my 2 yr old...peeks at my laptop, and starts pressing the icons on the unity launcher on the screen
<Azelphur> what is this inferior non-touch screen device :P
<mungojerry_> he is rather used to my android tablet
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> funniest thing is when they try and pinch zoom pictures in books
<mungojerry_> he's decided icons should be touchable, i think he's ready to the future of computing
<AlanBell> andylockran: we have one of these on the way http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatechnfinityn1402.html
<mungojerry_> maybe mice won't be around anyway when he's a teenager
<Azelphur> I don't think mice are going to go away on things like laptops and desktops just yet, touch isn't a viable alternative
<Azelphur> well, mice and keyboards
<Azelphur> (step 1, hold your arm out in front of your face as if to touch the screen, step 2, keep it there for a typical 7 hour work day.)
<zleap> for long documents you probably need a keyboard, anyone up for typing a 100k+ word uni thesis on a touch screen
<mungojerry_> yes, there are different work modes requiring different input methid
<mungojerry_> looking at the students in their work space, computers are for youtubing and facebooking
<penguin42> Azelphur: Some people get on well with touchpads
<Azelphur> touchpads are ok, touch screens arn't :p
<penguin42> nod
<mungojerry_> well they are great for armchair surfing or on the train
<Azelphur> yea they are great on consumption devices
<mungojerry_> mx player on android tablet has certain areas of the screen to reduce vol/brightness etc, very nice to watch stuff on the train
<mungojerry_> such a grim day outside. had to stand in the rain for 30 mins while doggy got some exercise
<mungojerry_> guys, if i type IMG_001.jpg in unity launcher, and get 3 matches, how do i know the path to each match?
<directhex> popey, i like how 4:30 of that video are converting a unity3 project to unity4. actual linux port time is 50 seconds ;)
<popey> yeah :)
<popey> i was going to comment on that myself
<directhex> frustrating that I can't strip the audio out though :(
<popey> kazam worked then directhex ?
<directhex> yeah, kazam worked easy. capturing on windows is another matter though
<xnox> czajkowski: is that a regression because of installing a package I proposed to unbreak your phone? Or just a general regression?
<xnox> for boot up - you can install package bootchart and it will give logs & pretty graphs of why the boot takes as long as it does.
<xnox> czajkowski: not sure if there is an easy way to diagnose shut-down though you can compare: shutdown vs logout-first & shutdown. And try to pin-point "what's holding up the shutdown"
<czajkowski> xnox: genereal
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> ok
<xnox> czajkowski: there are talks that there are some desktopy applications that hold open files & just plain refuse to quit, such that we wait for timeout & then kill them, resulting in shutdown delays.
<popey> czajkowski,  be aware of bug 1081066 for bootchart :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1081066 in bootchart (Ubuntu) "Bootchart doesn't logrotate, so eventually fills /var/log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081066
<penguin42> xnox: Yeh, an unbootchart would be great - not sure where it would put it's data; but slow shutdown really annoys me, becuase I'm normally waiting to go to bed, or get out of the house etc
<daftykins> do you people tend to hit shutdown whilst programs are all open then?
<penguin42> daftykins: Yes; kde has a very nice ctrl-alt-shift-pagedown that does a shutdown
<penguin42> daftykins: But it doesn't seem to be the apps that slow things down though
<daftykins> nah i'm just more interested in styles of use
<daftykins> as i always close programs off before a shutdown, sort of winding down toward finishing things
<penguin42> daftykins: I close things (when I remember!) that I think are too dumb to clean themselves up
<popey> depends, i usually close most apps before closing down
<popey> but sometimes there's a text editor left open on another desktop
<MartijnVdS> hi from Birmingham :-)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Eek what are you doing there
<daftykins> poor guy
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello :)
<AlanBell> hi bigcalm_laptop
<popey> evening
 * penguin42 doesn't think he would want an excited or scared laptop
<popey> balls
<popey> bug 859600 is breaking some wine apps
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 859600 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "Please convert gnome-keyring to multiarch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859600
<popey> gets on my tits when people claim there's no issues at all running a 64-bit distro these days. that's just factually inaccurate
<DJones> Depends on a person usage, I'm using 64 bit and can say that I haven't had any issues, but I'm not using anything exotic/none-standard
<popey> exactly
<popey> that's exactly the issue. everyone talks from their own perspective.
<popey> without considering that there might be use cases where it actually fails.
<popey> "well it works for me, therefore it must work for everyone" is the broken logic
<shauno> how about "it's 2012, so I feel safe making an assumption that desktop linux has at least caught up with 2004"?
<popey> its not a problem of desktop linux, its a problem of people asserting their experience is everyones experience in desktop linux
<DJones> popey: Agreed, although its difficult not to use the same logic when all you're using is a default desktop & packages from the repo's
<popey> oh sure, but who does that? :)
<shauno> it just seems like the wrong direction to get annoyed at people assuming it works.  it should be a very reasonable assumption
<popey> assumption is the failure
<popey> hey ho
<daftykins> running a 64-bit OS in the Windows world is still a bit of a laugh though, when you look at how many apps are *actually* still 32-bit atop it
<daftykins> in fact, haha
<daftykins> lemme put up a pic
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/66f7R.gif
<daftykins> that sums it up XD
<bigcalm_laptop> Anybody here used a touch screen with a RPi?
<popey> i dont care that there are 32-bit apps running on my 64-bit OS, so long as they work
<daftykins> oh so they don't in Ubuntu? that's quite unimpressive
<daftykins> in fact pretty shocking
<penguin42> popey: Especially given they're often smaller and faster; and now actually work these days on Ubuntu (finally)
<popey> daftykins, what don't work?
<popey> daftykins, i have a bunch of 32-bit apps which run seamlessly on my 64-bit ubuntu system
<popey> but some libraries haven't been converted to multiarch which means you can't install 64 and 32-bit versions of them side by side
<popey> its one reason why 32-bit steam on 64-bit ubuntu doesn't have an indicator in the panel
<penguin42> it's not bad these days on Quantal
<popey> yeah, its not many
<popey> but it's some crucial ones
<penguin42> nod
<popey> i dont mind that they dont work, free software and all that
<popey> i mind more that people claim everything is peachy :)
<daftykins> sounds very messy
<penguin42> yeh, it's certainly a heck of a lot better than a year ago
<penguin42> a year ago it just wasn't doable, where as RHEL/Fedora have been pretty much working for years on it - so it's definitely going in the right direction
<popey> yeah, i quite like the implementation of it
<popey> apt-get install foo gets me the 64-bit version, apt-get install foo:i386 gets me the 32-bit one
<penguin42> popey: Not sure yet, it's a little overkill for the PC case (but nice for ARM) and I'm not convinced things like Gnome plugins work yet
<daftykins> i didn't realise there was a steam beta
<popey> i was playing Serious Sam 3 BFE today on Linux :)
<daftykins> ah-har
<popey> my poor intel only machine barely kept up
<daftykins> decent performance? assuming you have a decent graphics card
<daftykins> ah XD
<popey> yeah, nvidia is fine
<daftykins> i see the beta site is referring to nvidia having done some work :O
<popey> yeah, there's been collaboration between canonical, valve and nvidia
<popey> one of the guys from valve came along to UDS last month
<daftykins> ooh
<popey> also a bunch of people from Unity3D
<daftykins> if you build it, they will come - indeed
<popey> directhex did a video earlier showing how easy it can be to port games over from Windows to Linux if written in Unity3D
<popey> still lots of work to do of course
<daftykins> quantal ISO is 753MB, cor that must be getting to overburn territory
<popey> it's intentionally more than a CD size now
<daftykins> oh?
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> sort of closing off attempts that might be made to put it on older hardware?
<daftykins> i completely forgot about the 12.10 release
<penguin42> daftykins: I think they just gave up trying to squeeze it on
<popey> DVDs and USB sticks work fine
<popey> it was a deliberate choice
<popey> there's still a limit
<penguin42> daftykins: It's ok on older hardware via USB sticks, and frankly anything that won't boot off USB sticks these days is just too much of a fight with Ubuntu, I've done it on an older AMD box but it was one heck of a fight
<daftykins> yeah i know all this
<daftykins> i just find it a bit of a curious decision
<popey> less stress for us trying to constantly crowbar stuff in
<penguin42> daftykins: Why? Why spend the effort squeezing when very few people are stuck using CD to install
<penguin42> daftykins: You can still install using something like Ubuntu server and add the other packages
<daftykins> because it's a cheaper medium
<penguin42> by how many c these days?
<penguin42> daftykins: In the end a reusable USB stick is cheaper
<daftykins> well, i think you're considering a particular user type there
<penguin42> daftykins: Most people have come to the conclusion that burning CD/DVDs is just too much of a pain
<penguin42> daftykins: I've had to do a lot of weird/older machines and even I try and avoid CDs
<popey> i cant recall the last time I burned a CD
<daftykins> i'm afraid i still find everything you're saying obvious but it doesn't make it any less of a surprise :P
<penguin42> popey: I tried recently, I had a machine that had a bios bug that meant it didn't like USB thumb drive booting; fortunately someone told me it worked if I used a PS/2 keyboard on it - really got me rialled
<daftykins> i'm certainly rocking a collection of flash drives too, but nevermind
<penguin42> daftykins: These days you need to be a bit of an expert to get Ubuntu on more than say 7 year old machines, if you are then you can do it with a ubuntu-server disc, anything newer the  larger image/use of a thumb drive isn't an issue; I agree it's a shame it just doesn't work on older stuff
<daftykins> can you stop patronising now =/
<penguin42> shrug - I wasn't trying to!
<popey> then again if you can get ubuntu on a 7 year old machine you probably wouldn't want to run it
<popey> probably better using lubuntu or xubuntu I guess
<penguin42> but fortunately I've now bought my dad a machine that is new; shame he tripped a kernel bug on it though :-(
<popey> is that the lenovo?
<penguin42> popey: No
<penguin42> popey: My dad's is a low end Sandybridge desktop, it triggers a kernel bug only when connected via a kvm; other people have triggered the same bug under different cases
<DJones> There's always the minimal iso to burn to a cd as another option
<penguin42> popey: Bug 1070690
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1070690 in linux (Ubuntu Raring) "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null); RIP: 0010:[<ffffffff8167f93a>] [<ffffffff8167f93a>] __mutex_lock_slowpath+0xaa/0x150" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070690
<penguin42> popey: I'm too mean to buy my dad a Lenovo
<penguin42> popey: Unfortunately 3 out of 4 machines I've installed Quantal on have triggered series graphics (either kernel or X) bugs - all very different hardware
<popey> heh
<popey> is that intel hd3000 or 2000?
<popey> i didnt realise the mobo in my desktop is "only" hd2000 (it's a cheapo zoostorm i7)
<popey> which is one reason why some games are really crappy on it
<penguin42> popey: Not sure off hand; my dads it's a G645 CPU, bottom end dual core with integrated gpu
<popey> ahh, dual-core.. even worse :S
<penguin42> popey: This is the more cheapo zoostorm - the 199 one
<daftykins> err the GPU is on-die of the CPU in i-series
<popey> hehe
<popey> yes, no need to patronise daftykins :p
<popey> its still called a GPU
<daftykins> yes but, hang on
<daftykins> < popey> i didnt realise the mobo in my desktop is "only" hd2000 (it's a
<daftykins>                cheapo zoostorm i7)
<daftykins> ^mobo?
<daftykins> no relevance then surely
<popey> meh
<popey> s/mobo/cpu/
<popey> s/mobo/black box under the desk/
<daftykins> i see
<penguin42> popey: I just seem to have had a !?$* week for bugs :-(
<popey> yeah, I think we all have those now and then
<popey> i sometimes have a day where I think "I'll file that bug I have been meaning to" and end up with a crash in the bug reporter, then discover some other bug when reproducing it
<popey> and end up filing 3 in a row :)
<daftykins> ouch
<penguin42> popey: Yeh so I've currently got gdb attached to X to try and figure out why xrestop crashes it (which I see you also reported), earlier I fixed a gdb bug that I ran into when previously trying to use gdb instead of xrestop....
<popey> oh, thanks for looking at that
<penguin42> popey: Of course I was using xrestop to find out why X was using 100% and running like a dog - so a triple whammy, but that turned out not necessarily due to an ubuntu bug
<penguin42> and it's a pain since it won't fail in a vm so I have to do it on my main machine and that means I can't listen to music - and that makes me a sad penguin
<popey> :(
<popey> is the picture on your website accurate? your array of machines around you
<penguin42> popey: Yes, a little out of date, but approximately correct - just a bit more dust and an LCD on my main machine
<penguin42> oh, and the beard seems to have got longer, and the hair sparser
<popey> heh
<daftykins> ^_^
<penguin42> popey: Problem with digging in the X server is you have to know quite about it's internal data structures (which I don't), so it's a bit of voodoo programming
<penguin42> (and I have to try and remember whether it's apt-get builddep, builddeps, build-dep or build-deps    which I ALWAYS forget)
<popey> now you know what you've done there... I _know_ it's build-dep but now you've said that I'm gonna mistype it every time!
<penguin42> haha sorry about that
<xnox> is it now apt-get build<TAB>
<xnox> ?
<popey> ooooh!
<popey> why did I not know that!
<penguin42> xnox Good point
<popey> in other news, we're still evil https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/ZZWLtq6tYdn
<penguin42> popey: Could you successfully argue against him? (OK, so he's Mr. Systemd - but he's right it would be easier if it wasn't quite so segmented - I don't actually know which is better)
<popey> have you read the comments?
<popey> surprising number of pro-ubuntu ones
<popey> I thought it would be the usual dogpile
<popey> but no, I couldn't. I don't know enough about upstart/systemd
<popey> i leave that to people like
<popey> er.. slangasek :)
<penguin42> popey: Me neither, but it's true that having two of them doesn't necessarily help
<popey> "systemd has not yet been included in any released enterprise distribution"
<popey> thats a somewhat compelling argument isnt it?
<popey> meh, could say the same about GNOME Shell and Unity
<popey> Oh, wait!
<popey> ;)
<xnox> I think lennart totally missed the point in this conversation.
<xnox> upstart already had support for running user jobs for a long time.
<penguin42> popey: ok, I hadn't realised upstart had won in RHEL6, I guess that pretty much settles it then
<xnox> now we want to make sure that some of the /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop files are supervised by upstart.
<xnox> penguin42: but lennart keeps on saying that it's systemd in rhel7, but that has not been released yet.
<penguin42> xnox: He may be in a better position to know; it's an interesting about turn if RHEL have got sysv->upstart->systemd
 * penguin42 admits to preferring sysvinit, at least I knew how to debug startup
<xnox> penguin42: they only run upstart in sysv compat mode, e.g. no upstart jobs, just supervise existing init scripts.
<penguin42> hmm, I see why it's segging - what I don't know is why it's got that value   counts[(type & TypeMask) - 1]++;       and type=0
<directhex> alert: SPAZ is 75% off until 10am tomorrow, and is one of the games available on the Steam for Linux beta
<daubers> directhex: From now on I shall think of you more as A floating hologram of Patrick Moores head
<directhex> i lack a monocle!
<directhex> also, i can totally ruin gamesmaster forever for you: you can see patrick moore is actually just wearing a black turtleneck in the early seasons, it's not a floating hed at all
<daubers> directhex: You can see the same with Holly in Red Dwarf
<directhex> ;o
<daubers> (original early Holly anyway)
<directhex> RUINED!
<daubers> http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/181/621/911/gamesmaster-games-master-series-1-to-7-1edd.png <- What I think directhex really looks like
<directhex> i just said i lacked a monocle. KEEP UP AT THE BACK!
<daubers> Well, christmas is coming.....
<daftykins> i'm kind of impressed they managed to get Patrick Moore to do that job
<daftykins> doesn't seem quite befitting to his character...
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-25
<shauno> I love when you're trying to google for something, and the results are all people asking "are you too lazy to google?".
<penguin42> hehe yes
<shauno> it's almost as bad as forum threads that ask exactly what you're looking for, and then the sole reply is "nm found it"
<shauno> xbmc's documentation is almost comically bad.
<danfish> good moaning all
<danfish> projects for today 1) link up raspberry pi XMBC media centre to main tv
<danfish> 2) Setup a 'community' drupal 7 server to store dermoscopy images for comparison
<danfish> 3) go mental on a tree withh a chainsaw and
<danfish> 4) get arm/leg reattached at A&E as a result of 3 :D
<popey> morning
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon et al
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<dwatkins> I found a webpage, and then I lost it :-/
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> ages ago I found a page which described minimal power usage circults with a solar panel, capacitor and some kind of load (probably an LED) and the details about how to keep power usage to a minimum, now I can't find that page.
<dwatkins> it mentioned shutting down the circuit when not in use, and I'm really curious how it did that, but have looked for ages and can't find the same page.
<brobostigon> interesting, yes.
 * dwatkins consoles himself by reading about a solar-powered phone charger on Adafruit's website
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> http://learn.adafruit.com/usb-dc-and-solar-lipoly-charger/design-notes for the curious/lazy ;)
<danfish> dwdw
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<danfish> oops
<danfish> morning brobostigon
<danfish> dwatkins: www.reuk.co.uk is a good site for info re power/solar etc
<dwatkins> thanks danfish :) will have a look
<jacobw> afternoonings
<DJones> What software would people recommend for setting up a blog system on a home ubuntu server? I was thinking about using wordpress, but wondered if there was a better system to use
<popey> I'd use wordpress
<DJones> Cheers, that was what I thought would be suggested
<AlanBell> DJones: wordpress, and update it every single time it offers you an update
<DJones> ls
<DJones> grr
<b1ackcr0w> ello all!
<b1ackcr0w> this should be fun
 * AlanBell downloads a raring iso
<daubers> AlanBell: Raring to go already?
<AlanBell> I upgraded a VM already from Quantal, but I feel like testing the installer
 * daubers adds "Made tje
 * daubers adds "Made the tumble drier work" to his list of stuff done today
<AlanBell> yay
<daubers> Should probably find a better keyboard out of the roof at some point
<daubers> The one from the old Revo is a bit poo
<AlanBell> raring in a VM looks pretty much exactly the same as quantal so far
<penguin42> which reminds me, I need to seem if my favorite X crash still happens in Raring
<penguin42> yep, still seems broken in raring
<AlanBell> bug #?
<penguin42> bug 1043513
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1043513 in xserver-xorg-video-cirrus (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in memcpy() via cirRefreshArea() under KVM virtual machine" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043513
<penguin42> hmm time to make food
<andrews> Hello - can anyone advise how to check the permissions of an external hard drive?  Ive had it connected to my Ubuntu system (its normally a windows backup drive) though it wont now let me connect it to my mac as my mac says that the drive is "restricted" which I assume means locked out
<DJones> Can somebody give me a bit of help with changing where my home website goes to, at the moment if I type www.mydomain.com it loads the index.htm page in /var/www/ I'd like it to load the default page in /var/www/wordpress/ , I just can't rok out how to get that done
<DJones> s/rok/work/
<DJones> Never mind, its not where I want it to be anyway
<dwatkins> You can setup aliases with Apache, DJones - perhaps that helps.
<dwatkins> I tend to have my wordpress installation at example.com/blog, the gallery at example.com/gallery etc.
<dwatkins> I just use the top level for a simple homepage, and I don't link the blog from there, to avoid too many unwanted visitors finding it.
<AlanBell> DJones: you can set up stuff in /etc/apache2/sites-available/ to point to different directories and serve them up in assorted ways
<AlanBell> some people move the whole lot out of /var/www and put in in /srv/domain.name/
<andylockran> DJones: easiest way is to set the default page that your server lands at via a sites-enabled/ file called 000-default
<andylockran> it reads the vhosts alphabetically, so will load the first one if a GET request is issues for a domain name not mentioned in a vhosts file.
 * MartijnVdS returns
 * daubers waits for the feeling to return to his fingertips
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what did you do to lose it?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Spray painting models in the cold
<MartijnVdS> that would do it :)
 * MartijnVdS just came back from Birmingham
<MartijnVdS> that Christmas market thing was BUSY
<daubers> And you managed to get out in one piece???
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I only stayed for 24h, so I think the damage is minimal ;0
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<daubers> :p
<dwatkins> 24 hour christmas market? think of the gluhwein...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I don't think the market was 24h, we went to the Tattoo for my dad's birthday (he loves those things).. and then we found out there was a German-style Christmas market
<dwatkins> oh cool, MartijnVdS
<Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/evRLf.jpg :p
<dwatkins> haha, looks like it didn't detect the USB stick after starting the initial boot phase
<Azelphur> either that or someone pulled it out and ran away from incoming security personnel xD
<dwatkins> yeah, although it's possible something else is attached to the TV
 * dwatkins wonders idly if he can boot his TV using the USB socket in the side
<Azelphur> haha
<dwatkins> I can power my Arduino from it, which is neat.
<dwatkins> I can even power a Raspberry Pi from it, which was quite impressive.
<dwatkins> Trouble is, when the TV goes into low power mode, the Pi gets turned off.
<shauno> it's a shame most those little usb powerpacks I find don't charge & power at the same time, else you could make a pi-sized ups
<dwatkins> shauno: you can get charging circuits for Lithium Polymer batteries so you can do that.
<dwatkins> https://www.adafruit.com/products/390
<shauno> I had something like that, but the battery puffed up like a pillow
<dwatkins> I imagine if you cable it carefully, you could also add a USB-B socket to apply power when it's too dark to charge with the sun.
<dwatkins> oh dear, that's not good
<dwatkins> I've seen a few people suggesting just connecting the panel directly to the battery, which is fine for a few seconds, but if the voltage goes too high you risk the battery being damaged. I assume you had a circuit to monitor the charging voltage, though.
<dwatkins> I think you could power a Raspberry Pi for just over an hour with a 1300 mAh battery.
<shauno> I'm curious about this CEC stuff that lets devices communicate over hdmi.  if the pi knows the TV's gone to standby, it could shutdown
<shauno> you still need some battery to last the period between the signal and the poweroff, but it could be very smooth
<brobostigon> is it possible, for people, without an account on an xmpp server, to join a MUC room on said server ?
<dwatkins> I don't believe so, brobostigon - in my experience, you need an account to do anything with an xmpp server, but there may be a configuration option to say "let people register and join rooms as a guest"
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i have not enabled such an option, i just wanted to be sure.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: ah I see, I'm no security expert, but that's how I believe it works
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ok, thank you.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-18
<MooDoo> morning all
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<Myrtti> meh
<MooDoo> Myrtti: and a good morning to you :)
<Myrtti> atleast it's not Tuesday
<diplo> Morning all
<DGJones> Myrtti, Are you ok for a pm
<GentileBen> As Myrtti's official PM gatekeeper, I'm going to allow this.
<Myrtti> DGJones: if you don't expect coherent answers
<Myrtti> GentileBen: meh
<Myrtti> I feel like Tardar Sauce the cat
<DGJones> Hmmh, /msg doesn't work in xchat
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<MooDoo> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<diplo> So, keep getting reminded 13.10 is out and do i want to upgrade.. running 13.04 atm.. worth the update or buggy ?
<Myrtti> my motto has been that upgrading non-LTS's is always a good idea
<Myrtti> upgrading LTS's is a good idea when a new LTS is around
<DGJones> diplo, PLus 13.04 wil be EOL in January
<directhex> 13.10 is fine now
<directhex> it was not fine when chromium would refuse to load Reddit Enhancement Suite
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have been using it since release - it's OK. It was a bit rough around the edges but is no worse than 13.04.
<diplo> Myrtti: I was the same earlier on, but had so many issues since 11.* with early upgrades I've left it a lot later now, I had to upgrade from 12.04 because I needed some specific package for some dev
<diplo> OK great, I'm sold.
<Myrtti> I'm debating myself should I be a guinea pig for LTS to LTS upgrade path
<Myrtti> there's so many things in 12.04 bugging me out right now that I pine for an upgrade
<DGJones> 13.04->13.10 was the smoothest upgrade I've ever had, absolutely zero errors/issues during upgrade, normally there's an odd, niggling error, but there was nothing this time
<SuperMatt> DGJones: that's because almost nothing changed ;)
<Myrtti> may I complain about something though, this is only related to Ubuntu and 12.04
<SuperMatt> though if you're running 12.04 on a server, don't upgrade to 14.04 until you've tested your apache confs
<SuperMatt> the upgrade from 2.2 to 2.4 caused a few issues for me
<diplo> nah, I only just upgraded from natty to 12.04 on my server :)
<ali1234> probably the biggest change in 13.04->13.10 is the indicator api changed quite a lot
<Myrtti> I didn't know it was possible for IT support to order a laptop these days that doesn't come with inbuilt bluetooth. Well, I knew it was possible but I didn't know it was possible they were assuming that me not mentioning it means that I don't want it by default
<SuperMatt> there weren't a lot of user facing changes, I'll admit to that
<Myrtti> SuperMatt: no, just a laptop
<Myrtti> no apaches or such running here
<Myrtti> but it's a factory install of Ubuntu tweaked by IT support
<Myrtti> so I'm feeling hesitant over nuking the partitions and doing a fresh install
<DGJones> I spent quite a bit of time in the last week looking at laptops for my father-in-law and don't think any of them didn't come with bluetooth
<Myrtti> DGJones: Dell and clueless IT support...
<DGJones> Myrtti, Right, probably find it was more expensive as well as it was non-standard in not including BT
<Myrtti> I do confess that I feel kinda guilty for not telling them exactly what I wanted
<Myrtti> I just told them I want HD screen, webcam, fast enough CPU that I don't start crying when doing LaTeX and enough RAM that that won't be the bottleneck
<Myrtti> "and please the smallest possible model you can order"
<DGJones> Even so, they must have trawled the Dell website to find one without BT
<SuperMatt> any reason why you don't want blutooth?
<SuperMatt> I'm sure you can just switch it off in the bios/OS so it doesn't bother you
<DGJones> Next time just tell them you IBM's Deep Blue in a laptop case with a 2560*1200 HD screen
<DGJones> Powered by Unicorns
<Myrtti> DGJones: by default the configuration list adds bluetooth it seems, but they must've taken it off and saved 4â¬
<Myrtti> (so now I have requested for a Bluetooth 4.0 dongle that costs 15â¬)
<diplo> Just get one of the tiny bluetooth usb things Myrtti Â£2-3
<ali1234> Â£1 at poundland
<ali1234> and they work fine
<Myrtti> I'm not going to spend a penny of my own money, I've just put it on the Health and Safety purchase list
<diplo> Even better, mines plugged into mine, forget about it as it's so small :)
<Myrtti> from a reputable seller that does invoices
<JamesTait> Morning all! :-D
<jussi> Im still liking the Sony Vaio Pro 11
<jussi> Mind, I had a play with a thinkpad carbon and dear $diety, if they came in an 11 inch...
<DGJones> Hmmh, wierd problem ssh'd into a box at home, when I start byobu, its scrolling down the screen as though a carriage return is being pressed on the keyboard, but it doesn't happen outside of byobu
<diplo> DGJones: I've had that
<DGJones> Any idea how to fix it
<diplo> Tmux issue, change to screen and it's fine.
<DGJones> I've rebooted the machine
<diplo> That was with putty
<DGJones> Very odd, screen doesn't do it, I'll give it another reboot & just see if that fixes it
<DGJones> Yes, same here
<diplo> I'll find a post
<ali1234> tsux :P
<popey> can someone open System Log on ubuntu 13.10 and tell me if they see date stamps?
<popey> in the syslog -> today area
<ali1234> how do you open it?
<SuperMatt> uhhh
<SuperMatt> I just had it crash
<SuperMatt> and again
<popey> well, I use Dash -> sys... press enter
<diplo> Did you run this DGJones byobu-select-backend
<diplo> ?
<SuperMatt> (gnome-system-log:28466): Gtk-CRITICAL **: _gtk_css_rgba_value_get_rgba: assertion 'rgba->class == &GTK_CSS_VALUE_RGBA' failed
<SuperMatt> [1]    28466 segmentation fault (core dumped)  gnome-system-lo
<DGJones> diplo, No, Just straight "byobu"
<popey>  /usr/bin/gnome-system-log
<SuperMatt> g
<ali1234> not installed
<diplo> To change from tmoux to screen DGJones
<popey> gnome-system-log is the package
<DGJones> Yeah, I'll give that a go
<SuperMatt> keeps segfaulting on me
<popey> oof
<popey> that's a separate bug then
<SuperMatt> yup \o/
<ali1234> ok it works for me. what am i looking for?
<popey> the dates in the syslog bit
<popey> the dates are white on white for me
<popey> so only show when I mouse select them
<ali1234> they are grey on white for me
<popey> hmm
<popey> theme issue?
<SuperMatt> mayhap
<ali1234> i don't have anything that says "today"
<popey> no triangle next to syslog?
<SuperMatt> interesting
<ali1234> no. actually it does say "today" though
<popey> bug 1045602
<SuperMatt> when I set my theme to ambiance, my segfault goes away
<lubotu3> bug 1045602 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "date and time in gnome-system-log is white text on white background" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045602
<popey> seems already filed
<SuperMatt> and my dates are white on white too
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/277700
<popey> right, so theme issue
<popey> the bug confirms it, thanks
<SuperMatt> excellent bug hunting everyone. we make a great team
<ali1234> i can't reproduce it by changing to ambiance/radiance
<ali1234> might need to restart it though
<ali1234> yes, there we go
<SuperMatt> can't beliebe it segfaults for me just because I'm using a different theme
<SuperMatt> numix, for what it's worth
<ali1234> HA
<ali1234> report that, they'll want to fix it
<SuperMatt> sure
<ali1234> i'll confirm it
<popey> probably needs filing upstream in gnome
<ali1234> numix isn't gnome
<popey> not what i meant
<popey> its not a bug in gnome-system-log?
<ali1234> well, i meant report it to the numix devs
<ali1234> gnome-system-log look slike yet more abandonware
<popey> 3.9.3 in development..
<ali1234> bug 1231439 already reported
<lubotu3> bug 1231439 in gnome-system-log (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-log crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231439
<ali1234> apparently all the shimmer themes except for the one i use cause it
<popey> is there a terminal or tail type command that highlights new lines ?
<ali1234> i don't understand. how do you highlight a none printing character?
<popey> no, i mean new appended lines
<popey> like, make the most recent lines added in the last 10 seconds bold
<popey> then unbold after 10s
<ali1234> hmm...
<popey> so if i glance at the terminal running it I can see the new lines added recently
<popey> ooh, multitail is nice
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<DJones> Does anybody know whether anything replaced the noip2 client
<diplo> ddns DJones ?
<MooDoo> DJones: http://askubuntu.com/questions/184704/the-noip2-no-ip-com-package-was-deleted-from-the-repository-now-what
<popey> i do that inside my router
<popey> lots show up if you apt-cache search dyndns
<DJones> Cheers, was using dyndns, but for some reason its stopped working
<popey> i use afraid.org now
<diplo> I am with them but can't get my client to update, there is a bug already
 * diplo looks
 * brobostigon uses them also.
<diplo> yeah ddclient is what I used, and it doesn't like updating
<DJones> Ah well, ddclient with no-ip settings works fine
<diplo> yeah. protocol should be set to freedns but it's unknown. Find the bug now
<diplo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient/+bug/1092966
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1092966 in ddclient (Ubuntu) "Freedns support removed from ddclient" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<diplo> Seems I need 3.8.1
<ali1234> popey: this should work: watch --color 'tail -n 100 /var/log/syslog | grep --color=always -E "$(date +"%h %d %H")|$"'
<ali1234> but it doesn't :(
<ali1234> instead of showing the colour, it just eats it instead
<ali1234> tail -n 100 /var/log/syslog | grep --color=always -E "$(date +"%h %d %H")|$" works
<ali1234> and why is whoopsie spamming syslog every minute?
<popey> ooh!
<popey> watch has a colour option, didnt know that
<ali1234> but it doesn't work
<SuperMatt> I didn't know that either \o/
<SuperMatt> you guys know about ccze?
<SuperMatt> tail -f /var/log/syslog | ccze
<SuperMatt> nice coloured tail logs
<popey> am I right in saying any nvidia card with 3 (or more) ports will be able to drive 3 monitors with the binary driver in twinview mode?
<directhex> iirc yes
<directhex> well, depends
<popey> ta
<popey> oh?
<directhex> one of them has to be displayport afaik
<popey> or hdmi?
<popey> (my card has 2xDVI 1xmini HDMI)
<directhex> the problem is pixel clocks
<popey> is there a definitive way to find out, by browsing amazon or whatever?
<directhex> you need a pixel clock to synchronize a display and a graphics card, so the card & monitor agree on the data rate
<popey> Some spec thing to look for
<directhex> consumer-level cards tend to only include two pixel clocks
<directhex> displayport avoids the problem because it doesn't need a pixel clock (unless using a DP -> something else adapter)
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/226579/best-triple-head-display-setup
<popey> guy in the comment says he has 2xDVI, 1xHDMI, 1xVGA
<directhex> popey, which GPU do you have?
<popey> its not for me
<popey> oh, mine.. uh
<popey> I'm asking for someone on my LUG
<directhex> looks like geforce 600 series has 4 pixel clocks
<directhex> 500 and below has 2
<popey> ta
<penguin42> directhex: By 'pixel clocks' is that the same thing as CRTCs ?
<penguin42> because on things that support xrandr you can see in the output of xrandr --verbose   CRTCs lines showing which CRTCs can be used for a particular output
<directhex> yeah
<DJones> Hmmh, I wonder whether its worth saving for one of these http://bartongeorge.net/2013/11/15/introducing-sputnik-3-and-its-unofficial-big-brother/
<StevenR> morning. Got a problem with one user's profile/account that I can't pin down. No videos play. Not youtube/vlc/mythtv - they all just stall until killed. It works with a fresh user, but I can't see anything that would block it. Both users are in the video/audio groups. Any ideas what would break this?
<penguin42> StevenR: I wonder if it's actually audio related?
<penguin42> StevenR: Do audio things work?
 * StevenR goes to try
<penguin42> StevenR: Either way, get a pctl info   from the working and none working users
<StevenR> penguin42: no pctl command?
<penguin42> pactl info
<StevenR> penguin42: yes, audio related
<StevenR> penguin42: pactl info on the broken user is stalling, returning nothing so far
<penguin42> StevenR: OK, hmm
<penguin42> StevenR: Is this multiple users logged in at the same time?
<StevenR> no
<penguin42> ps -eaf|grep pulse
<DJones> diplo: I found out why byobu was scrolling up when using putty, its because Ubuntu expects UTF8 whereas putty defaults to ISO-8859 and for some reason it was causing confusions/scrolling, changing the translation in putty to UTF8 fixed the issue
<StevenR> penguin42: there's a "start-pulseaudio-x11" running as the broken user that appears stalled
<popey> StevenR: what are you running there? Ubuntu?
<StevenR> yes
<penguin42> StevenR: Ooh never seen that
<penguin42> StevenR: You should just see a /usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog
<popey> what does "pulseaudio -v --check" say?
<popey> also, grep autospawn /etc/pulse/client.conf
<StevenR> popey: ; autospawn = yes
<StevenR> popey: pulseaudio -v --check is stalled
 * penguin42 would be tempted to nuke ~/.config/pulse   kill that hanging process and see what happens on a logout/in
<popey> also ~/.pulse
<popey> I would also do the magic fix... "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" :D
<penguin42> and walk around the machine 3 times clockwise
<popey> don't forget to draw a pentagram on the floor
<StevenR> hurrah!
<penguin42> popey: Must have been the pentagram!
<popey> the pentagram worked huh?
<StevenR> .pulse and .pulse-cookie gone
<popey> :D
<diplo> ooh good work DJones, I'd never thought of that :/
<DJones> diplo: It was a lucky google search
<DJones> (Other search engines are available)
<StevenR> popey: penguin42: Thanks. all working now. :D
<penguin42> good good
<penguin42> StevenR: I guess one of those config/state files got into a mess and for some reason it screwed up the next startup
 * StevenR nods
<diplo> I think I went for the first option.
<ali1234> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6437455/
<ali1234> this was unnecessarily difficult to achieve due to all the stupid ways python and the shell buffer things
<MartijnVdS> $|++;
<popey> golly
<popey> does it work? â»
<popey> i just get a blank screen
<ali1234> unpossible
<popey> oh, i need to specify a parameter?
<ali1234> no?
<ali1234> just pipe a command in to it
<popey> i just get a blank window
<popey> ahh
<popey> of course
<ali1234> such as tail somefile
<popey> oh thats awesome
<popey> thanks
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6437473/ <- this takes a parameter: number of seconds to highlight the new lines
<ali1234> it buffers up to the last 4MB of log
<ali1234> usually this means the last 1000 lines, lines can be up to 4096 bytes
<popey> brilliant, just what i needed.
<ali1234> i dunno what will happen if the line gets split
<popey> now can you code me up a vga cable?
<ali1234> oh and it writes out the entire histroy every 0.2 seconds so in theory it can blast 20mb/sec onto your terminal, so watch out for that
<ali1234> that needs fixing really
<popey> my cpu keeps getting throttled when the temp is over some threshold
<popey> but it only does it momentarily, but it does it a lot
<MartijnVdS> popey: PC or laptop?
<MartijnVdS> popey: new or old?
<popey> x220 in docking station
<MartijnVdS> (dusty or not, but I guess you've checked that)
<popey> been a problem for ages
<popey> nah
<popey> cleaned it out and it made no difference
<MartijnVdS> Lenovo design fial? (docking station blocks ports?)
<popey> luckily its easy to clean
<popey> yes
<popey> no
<popey> no, ports are clear
<popey> it does it when not in the dock too, just not as often
<MartijnVdS> does the docking station itself heat up with use?
<popey> i am told by someone in the know that its a design fault, it cant dump the heat from the i7
<popey> hard to tell
<MartijnVdS> I'm quite happy with my XPS-12 btw
<MartijnVdS> I had to order a laptop between the previous "Developer edition" going "out of print" and the new one being announced..
<popey> tempted to sell this and get something else which doesn't work in a dock but has 1080p screen
<MartijnVdS> so I got the XPS-12 rotating screen one
<popey> wow, i can trigger cpu over speed by opening gnome terminal
<popey> sometimes..
<MartijnVdS> wow, that's bad
<penguin42> popey: How long have you had it?
<popey> Order Date: 27 January 2012
<penguin42> popey: I mean if it was a design fault then EU what-ever thingy, but it's very hard to actually prove it
<popey> will call lenovo and start the process anyway
<popey> top - 13:56:49 up 9 days,  5:36,  5 users,  load average: 0.46, 1.21, 1.10
<popey> and its 80 degrees
<mungbean> rip-off merchants on amazon really annoy me. how can you search only amazon sales rather than 3rd party?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: when searching, it's in the column on the left I think
<mungbean> items that should sell for Â£2.50 are appaering Â£85 all spammed by the same seller
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can also report those
<mungbean> are there rules about it?
<mungbean> nothing o nthe left for "viewmaster thomas"
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, there are. They can't do things like "Â£1 item, Â£100 shipping" for instance
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: let me check
<popey> filter on the left, last thing
<popey> says "seller"
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_in_-2_p_6_3?rh=n%3A468292%2Ck%3Aquadcopter%2Cp_6%3AA3P5ROKL5A1OLE&bbn=468292&keywords=quadcopter&ie=UTF8&qid=1384783475&rnid=367778011
<mungbean> not appearing on mine.
<mungbean> i can only filter delivery option, brand, dept.
<popey> its quite far down
<popey> after you have searched
<popey> maybe assumes that you already have results in your search from amazon.co.uk
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/YpBqkWN.png
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, that probably means there's only one merchant, so you can't filter more
<mungbean> that was a general viewmaster reels search, lots of "merchants"
<mungbean> weird
<ali1234> aw, i jst tried to scroll your screenshot
<mungbean> ihihih
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://i.imgur.com/wjANVCD.jpg
<GentileBen> mungbean, your nick isn't very exciting.
<GentileBen> Aren't there more dynamic beans you can name yourself after?
<mungbean> i'm changing at christmas
 * TheOpenSourcerer instantly thinks of borlotti
<MooDoo> mungbean: what to?  broad?  backed? jumping? ;)
<MooDoo> *baked
<TheOpenSourcerer> butter, green, has (lol)
<MooDoo> lol
<GentileBen> Mr
<GentileBen> "Butterbean" sounds like a term of endearment amongst vegetarians.
<GentileBen> "I love you, my little butterbean..."
<GentileBen> What about black beans?
<GentileBen> "Hey fool stay out of my pod yo!"
<GentileBen> mungbean's family reunion http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/377904658_288e03e282.jpg
<MooDoo> GentileBen: I assume you know mungbean ?
<GentileBen> I do, very well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Pinto!"
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's an exciting sounding name
<mgdm> it's a chain of Mexican fast food places, too
<mgdm> they do burritos. Which I now want.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh er. Never knew that.
<mgdm> Oh, they're only in Scotland so far.
<GentileBen> As long as they stay north of the wall.
<GentileBen> The Scots are like the White Walkers if they had a higher birth rate.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We'll build it back up again if they vote to leave. Keep the barbarians out of our green and (sometimes)pleasant land :-)
<mgdm> I have no idea what you're on about, but I'm going to take it as an insult
 * dwatkins_ pops in, sees his home is being talked about in what appears to be a negative fashion, and disappears again
<DJones> popey: Any sign of your N7 update yet?
<popey> nope
<popey> and the link to the android aosp file was 404 last time i tried
<popey> oh there now https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images#nakasikrt16o
<DJones> Just been reading a few postings about it, mainly suggesting it would be the US first then the rest of the world in stages after 2 weeks
<MartijnVdS> that's the factory images
<MartijnVdS> you could use those to upgrade non-destructively if you want
<DJones> .... COuld do, but much simpler to wait patiently...
<popey> how can you upgrade non-destructively?
<MartijnVdS> popey: you download the image from there ( make sure it's the one for your version of the device, re: wifi/3g/etc.)
<MartijnVdS> popey: then.. let me look it up :)
<popey> step one done
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm assuming you have adb/the android sdk
<daftykins> ooh 4.4 for the Nexus 4 posted
<popey> i do â»
<DJones> Doesn't that do a full wipe & install so you have to reinstall all your apps & settings, which to me does sound pretty destructive
<MartijnVdS> popey: you untar that file
<GentileBen> Any Scots in here?
<GentileBen> ME MAN FROM SOUTH OF WALL. ME BRING FIRE AND JOBSEEKERS' ALLOWANCE
<GentileBen> I think they got the message.
<DJones> !guidelines | GentileBen
<lubotu3> GentileBen: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<gordonjcp> !ops | GentileBen
<lubotu3> GentileBen: Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<Myrtti> what on earth
<DJones> GentileBen: This isn't #Defocus, Ubuntu guidelines apply here
<MartijnVdS> popey: hmm.. that flash script does a "fastboot erase userdata", which is scary.. it also does "-w" (= wipe data) when writing the update.zip
<MartijnVdS> popey: you'll have to remove the -w for sure, and possibly the userdata erase, but I'm not sure about the last one
<MartijnVdS> popey: xda-developers probably have a HOWTO somewhere on their N7 forums
<popey> â»
<popey> tbh i dont care too much if i wipe the device
<popey> I only have 2 apps on it I actually use
<daftykins> the 4.3 update caused a cache bug to my Nexus 4 that made 'Android OS' take up over 33% battery whilst on, dropping a 3 day runtime to 1.5
<daftykins> so i kind of like the idea of clean installs even on phones now >_<
<daftykins> when i set up smartphones for clients, i apply all updates then factory reset before first configure
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I had that bug today with "Google Play Services", turning phone off & on fixed it for me
<daftykins> interesting
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: but that's a Nexus 5
<popey> boom, done
<MartijnVdS> popey: with or without wipe?
<popey> just ran flash-all
<popey> sending 'system' (611878 KB)...
<popey> wheee
<MartijnVdS> ok, so you wiped it. Fair enough :)
<popey> i only use it as my second screen running irssinotifier and tune in radio
<MartijnVdS> Not as an Ubuntu test platform?
<popey> not that one
<popey> i have two
<popey> plus we didnt focus much on tablets last cycle, but will this one
<popey> so will probably switch it later
<popey> wow, takes ages
<AlanBell> popey: what are the odds of it working on the tesco hudl?
<popey> so when i said "done"
<popey> none whatsoever
<SuperMatt> is there a default username and password for machines made in juju?
<Laney> don't you do 'juju ssh'?
<SuperMatt> I didn't think of that
<SuperMatt> Laney: that worked, thanks
<directhex> Azelphur, http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H81%20Pro%20BTC/index.asp :D
<penguin42> directhex: I'm missing something - is it's only clame to being a good bitcoin box a sensible number of PCIe slots?
<penguin42> (and a dehumidifier mode?!)
<directhex> penguin42, yes.
<daftykins> >_<
<directhex> penguin42, they don't even pack in the PCIe ribbons they picture on their site, which are needed to use double-width cards in their abundant PCIe slots
<penguin42> what are those?
<penguin42> just PCIe cabling - then where do you mount the cards?
<daftykins> messily
<daftykins> D:
<directhex> penguin42, you don't :D
<directhex> you just sorta pile them up...
<directhex> or build a case out of lego
<penguin42> directhex: Rigggghhht
<penguin42> directhex: So don't people use PCI-bridge boards to provide themselves more slots then?
<daftykins> totally up the avenue of a loan wasting student i'd say
<penguin42> daftykins: It's what drives the economy
<directhex> you can't turn a profit with GPU-based bitcoin anymore
<directhex> the whole premise of the board is pants on head
<penguin42> directhex: and what do the hardware accels plug into?
<daftykins> yeah aren't the cool kids using err, what's the term, FPGAs?
<directhex> ASICs
<penguin42> are FPGAs able to break the cost? good FPGAs cost a fortune
<daftykins> that's the one
<directhex> and they're all USB or ethernet
<directhex> except for a few bits of vaporware
<popey> sending 'userdata' (137526 KB)...
<popey> still going
<popey> 40 mins later
<popey> s/40/50/
<daftykins> properly looking bleak down on the high-street just by my place now
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aoc0k25r2ctvu9y/IMG_20131118_163736.jpg
<penguin42> that's not bleak!
<SuperMatt> hey, your sky seems to be brighter than mine
<SuperMatt> where did you get that from?
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> you're not in some kind of foreign land, are you?
<daftykins> i think it's more the poor low light pic taking with the Nexus 4
<daftykins> yes, this is the high-street of our capital St Peter Port down here on the isle of Guernsey
<Laney> looks pleasant to me
<penguin42> nod, looks very nice
<popey> yeah, very xmassy
<daftykins> well technically it's Le Pollet, but meh, high-street is over in the distance :D
<daftykins> heh yeah they get the fire brigade to put up the lights
<popey> way better than my home town looks
<daftykins> i just nipped 30 seconds down to there to buy a nice coffee :D
<daftykins> mmm mocha
<Laney> mmmocha
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmplgmnjxgoliku/IMG_20131011_181856.jpg
<daftykins> that one from a while back is a bit more like what i'm trying to portray :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vmivd3wh11qmwn/IMG_20131012_180311.jpg
<daftykins> or perhaps ominous cloud about Castle Cornet
<daftykins> last one, i think i shared my little panoramic stitch a bit ago
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/asiekrtkx92xr1e/saleriepano.jpg
<daftykins> :>
<SuperMatt> daftykins: you're quite far south, aren't you?
<daftykins> just fitted the two new 500GB seagate laptop drives today, currently racing Vista against 7 installing Windows Updates Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> SuperMatt: yip practically France :>
<SuperMatt> do you mean actually france?
<SuperMatt> or dover?
<daftykins> well Guernsey's in the little sort of pocket of the north
<SuperMatt> ah
<SuperMatt> that's the island name I couldn't remember
<daftykins> next to Cherbourg and St. Malo
<daftykins> http://goo.gl/maps/STS1Z
<daftykins> :)
<popey> so should I kill this flash-all script?
<popey> alan     13908  0.3 12.2 1269596 983704 pts/10 D+   15:50   0:11 fastboot -w update image-nakasi-krt16o.zip
<daftykins> popey: still chugging along? i'd just commit to it
<popey> hmm
<daftykins> depends if you have a google account on it that you enable device backup for
<daftykins> i don't so nuking my device would be followed by lots of manual setup
<popey> i didnt backup at all
<popey> its all in the cloud
<daftykins> yeah Google device backup - that's what i mean
<SuperMatt> is there a juju channel?
<popey> ya
<popey> #juju
<SuperMatt> cool, I'll check that out later
<SuperMatt> I'm just trying one more thing
<SuperMatt> maybe I'll pop in there tomorrow
<SuperMatt> I'm done with thinking about things for today
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> brain has stopped working
<daftykins> 5pm = brain off o'clock \o/
<daftykins> not for me though
<SuperMatt> so I shall be going to the gym instead
<daftykins> barely got started XD
<daftykins> hf!
<SuperMatt> I'm not technically allowed to leave for the gym for another 23 minutes
<penguin42> start jogging around your desk?
<SuperMatt> but brain is definitely off
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> penguin42: the wall might have something to say about that
<bashrc> locked in?
<SuperMatt> just core hours
<bashrc> core brain hours
<SuperMatt> core brain hours are like 10-10.30
<SuperMatt> work hours are 9-5.30
<SuperMatt> you see the problem here?
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Does it specify timezone?
<SuperMatt> don't be silly
<SuperMatt> it's my own damn timezone
<SuperMatt> sometimes it worries me that this channel is publicly archived
<daftykins> i feel a tad iffy about it
<SuperMatt> only because of some of the silly things I say
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> ugg, my brain really is switched off right now
<penguin42> SuperMatt: And publicly searchable
<SuperMatt> I'm hoping buying a sad lamp is going to help me
<daftykins> i always think whoever came up with the acronym for seasonal affective disorder must've been so chuffed with themselves
<SuperMatt> quite likely
<SuperMatt> I imagine it was a pub moment
<penguin42> daftykins: It was probably the highlight of their winter
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> they clearly weren't sad that day
<daftykins> ^_^
<SuperMatt> only a minute to go \o/
<SuperMatt> and then I get to hit the gym
<SuperMatt> I must go because I only went once last week
<SuperMatt> very naught of me
<Laney> you little horror
<Azelphur> directhex: I noticed that, it's amusing because of how late it is :)
<popey> 2 hours flashing 4.4
<popey> I am not convinced this is doing anything
<popey> yup, frozen
<daftykins> d'aww
<popey> pretty boot animation
<penguin42> but did it freeze with a complete install?
<popey> \o/ booted
<daftykins> think it crapped out on user data
<popey> ya
<popey> "Restoring..."
<popey> "Setup complete"
<popey> \o/ irssi notifier setup
<popey> first notification received, work here is done
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i shall wait for mine to be prompted for the update :>
<daftykins> and my reinstall of this Vista laptop is nearly done
<daftykins> tum-te-tum
<diddledan> just reading oliver grawert's comments about mint
<daftykins> who's he when he's at home?
<bashrc> does he like it?
<diddledan> lemme get the link
<diddledan> he's an "engineering bod" at canonical... (from omgbuntu)
<diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/canonical-dev-dont-use-linux-mint-online-banking-unsecure
<diddledan> and the obligatory other-side http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/11/linux-mint-responds-ubuntu-developers-security-claims
<bashrc> probably sour grapes.  Mint has been at the top of the distrowatch chart for the longest time
<diddledan> the response really makes me feel better about mint's security stance </sarcasm>
<daftykins> heh yeah
<daftykins> "we do it because"
<diddledan> "we prefer you never have to reboot or suffer a crashed programme than ensure those programmes never get any nasties"
<diddledan> </paraphrase>
<diddledan> direct quote from mint's blog: Anybody running Mint can launch Update Manager -> Edit -> Preferences and enable level 4 and 5 updates, thus making their Linux Mint as âSecureâ and âUnstableâ as Ubuntu.
<daftykins> dist-upgrade would do it too?
<diddledan> that's unclear
<diddledan> it seems that gui rules
<daftykins> i figured the topic was mostly regarding novice users
<diddledan> gotta love that everyone who responds to this http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2013/11/answering-controversy-stability-vs-security-is-something-you-configure/ seems to be "canonical is evil. canonical must die. wait, people other than canonical develop ubuntu? HAH! canonibuntu must be obliterated from the timeline (soon, please)"
<ali1234> diddledan: no, the funny part is canonical trying to do damage control in the suspects
<ali1234> *comments
<ali1234> lol where's my head at?
<diddledan> lol @ suspects
<diddledan> grr, google can't find my cloudprint printer
<diddledan> it was working last week
<diddledan> it's decided to go "offline"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: native or from a machien running chrome?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: this particular occasion is via chrome
<directhex> :o
<directhex> :)
<directhex> :D
<directhex> :D
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: is that chrome running? :)
<directhex> remember my blog post from earlier this week?
<ali1234> no
 * AlanBell nods
<AlanBell> mips stuff
<directhex> https://buildd.debian.org/status/logs.php?pkg=mono&ver=3.2.3%2Bdfsg-3&arch=mipsel
<ali1234> oh yeah
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: the printer is a cloudprint enabled printer so it works directly with google without an intermediary chrome instance
<AlanBell> it built \o/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: OK.. can you get to its web interface?
<directhex> AlanBell, in the end, even with the replacement NOP instruction, it would still fail with the same issue - it would get further (most of the way through .net 4.5 rather than early in .net 2.0) but still failing
<diddledan> random: why do debian use their own certification authority for their ssl certs?
<directhex> AlanBell, and as luck would have it... i was assigned a buildd with an 11 year old broadcom chip, not a chinese mips clone
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah, I just been trawling through the admin to find a reason for it to not be working
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: have you tried turning it off and on again? :P
<AlanBell> directhex: I just ordered the first 7 raspberry pis for the build cluster
<diddledan> hmm, no, I've not tried that one *smax head*
<diddledan> ok, that seemed to fix it
<MartijnVdS> I need to find something to put my NAS on
<diddledan> I think
<directhex> AlanBell, i should have mono ready for armhf ubuntu by the end of the year ;)
<diddledan> maybe not
<AlanBell> yay
<MartijnVdS> it's resonating with the cabinet I put it itn :)
<diddledan> nope, that didn't fix it
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: haha it's letting you know it's alive!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: de-register, re-register with google?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: a bit too much though
<ali1234> how much faster than a raspberry pi is a beaglebone black?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I mean, it mails me every day when it's done its backup
<ali1234> and does it run ubuntu armhf?
<directhex> ali1234, lots, and yes
<ali1234> lots = 10x?
<directhex> http://www.ti.com/product/am3358
<diddledan> it says "processing failed with error code -93"
<diddledan> hmm
<AlanBell> ali1234: 2x
<AlanBell> for raw CPU, the pi wins when there is anything graphical, which there isn't in this context
<directhex> ali1234, raspberry pi has the iphone 3g's cpu, minus any IO acceleration. beaglebone black is galaxy S
<directhex> give or take
<directhex> YMMV
<directhex> IANAL
<directhex> IDDQD
<ali1234> ah, something i can actually understand
<directhex> the pi is fast for any job where you ask yourself "would a Sky Box do this?" because it's a set-top box cpu
<ali1234> yeah
<directhex> high-end HD capable video decode GPU, plus enough CPU to draw a programme guide
<AlanBell> both have 512MB ram
<MartijnVdS> directhex: hence, XBMC
<directhex> AND NOT A DROP OF EXTRA POWER
<MartijnVdS> directhex: but wait, you can overclock it a few MHz
<daftykins> directhex: IANAL = i am not a lemur?
<directhex> yes
<daftykins> :O
<diddledan> nowai
<daftykins> alright two laptops reinstalled after new HDDs put in
<daftykins> 4.5hrs work i guess
<daftykins> time to cook!
<daftykins> \o
<DJones> daftykins: I guess that wan't a windows reinstall then
<diddledan> sorry about the join/part flood if you've got them turned on
<diddledan> I was trying to run my macbook with the lid closed. it didn't work.
<DJones> diddledan: Do you want a delayed kick :)
<DJones> Lets put it this way, it wasn't exactly noticable
<diddledan> it depends. is the kick in the googlies or not?
<DJones> Does it matter with steel toe capped boots?
<diddledan> it was noticeable from my end, does that count? :-p
<diddledan> steel toe caps are the best kind of kicks
<DJones> I think thats forgiveable anyway
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> evenink
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/alexhern/status/402365655250644992/photo/1
<diddledan> I'll just leave that there
<directhex> (experimental_mipsel-dchroot)directhex@eder:~$ mono --version | head -1
<directhex> Mono JIT compiler version 3.2.3 (Debian 3.2.3+dfsg-3)
<diddledan> directhex: nice
<diddledan> aside: what does the dfsg in some of debian's package versions refer to?
<diddledan> I thought maybe debian foundation security group, but it's a wild guess
<ali1234> it stands for debian free software guidelines
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> it means a source tarball has been rebuilt (i.e. is not identical to the download on the software's site) because their source fails to meet the debian free software guidelines
<ali1234> presumably it means you had to patch it to make it "free"
<directhex> e.g. bundling of binaries, or bundling of non-Free things like RFC text
<directhex> generally, see debian/README.source in a source package
<diddledan> oic, so their firefox package (I forget what they called it. ice weasel?) would be one of those
<ali1234> i think ice weasel is technically forked upstream
<directhex> i updated my blog post. http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/545/
<neuro> is it a blog post about doctor who?
<penguin42> directhex: HTH can you ship a processo ron which the NOP is broken?!
<directhex> penguin42, china.
<directhex> penguin42, this is the cpu in the computer RMS was endorsing.
<penguin42> sigh - that is possibly the first broken nop I've come across
<penguin42> directhex: But for the mul, is there a reason the kernel doesn't flag/emulate it - does it even generate an exception?
<directhex> penguin42, well, SIGILL
<neuro> rms was endorsing a computer?
<neuro> god help us
<directhex> penguin42, the thing is, the mips ISA does not include MUL. it's normal for MIPS not to include it.
<directhex> MUL is valid mips assembler, but it does not equate to a standardized opcode
<directhex> it's supposed to be expanded by your assembly compiler
<penguin42> directhex: But what happens when you execute a non-existent opcode  on your processor? It throws some SIGIL?
<directhex> yeah
<penguin42> so you could get the kernel to emulate
<penguin42> <shower>
<AlanBell> neuro: yeah, he was, tiny crappy laptops, using mips clone processors because it was out of copyright, or nobody was enforcing copyright or something
<directhex> mostly because the firmware is Free and in git
<directhex> fat lot of good it does you when you can't even NOP
<neuro> the Lemote
<AlanBell> funny how MIPS went from very desirable silicon graphics workstations to supercheap stuff
<ali1234> via games consoles
<neuro> because SGI found it a) more cost effective to go Intel in terms of power, a la Apple going from PPC to Intel, and b) they went under
<directhex> it was used in several games consoles
<directhex> playstation, nintendo 64, playstation 2, playstation vita
<directhex> er, PSP not vita
<dwatkins> SGI didn't go under, they just got bought out
<dwatkins> They've always had a fairly strong clustering business.
<neuro> how is going bankrupt not going under?
<dwatkins> They had money in the bank, and still existed as a company, they're still selling servers to this day.
<neuro> NO WAI!
<neuro> </sarcasm> :)
<dwatkins> I should know, I worked there through several rounds of redundancy.
<directhex> we bought SGI kit.
<directhex> it was awesome
<directhex> and they had the best tech support bar none as well as the best performance
<dwatkins> They designed some pretty good stuff, sadly not all of it was so good.
<dwatkins> Thanks, directhex - I was in support :)
<neuro> dwatkins: sorry, disagree with your assessment
<directhex> altix!
<neuro> May 2006, SGI files for chapter 11
<neuro> October 2006, SGI comes out of chapter 11 protection
<dwatkins> neuro: I'm not a finance person, I just know that the company still exists with many of the same people. Perhaps on paper it stopped trading, but that's not what I saw happen.
<neuro> Dec 2008, SGI is delisted from NASDAQ
<neuro> April 2009, files for chapter 11 again
<dwatkins> yeah, that was when it got bought up by Rackable, neuro.
<directhex> SGI did a lot of stupid business. e.g. they were leasing old offices to google for less than they were paying on the mortgage
<dwatkins> Rackable then changed their name to SGI.
<neuro> May 2009, Rackable Systems buys SGI assets and name for $25m
<dwatkins> So in financial terms, the old SGI stopped existing, yeah, but that's just on paper.
<neuro> June 2009, the old SGI becomes Graphics Properties Holdings, Inc (GPHI), and becomes a patent troll
<directhex> dwatkins, i like telling eng lim goh's pringle anecdote
<dwatkins> directhex: don't think I heard that one, he's a smart cookie, though.
<directhex> dwatkins, P&G bought an Ice cluster. its purpose: fluid dynamics. to try & reduce the aerodynamic nature of pringles, to speed up the production line without them flying off
<dwatkins> What saddens me now is working for a much larger company, but not being able to do proper computing like we did at SGI.
<neuro> "proper"? you mean like proper computational stuff?
<dwatkins> Not just that, but that's part of it.
<neuro> your employer doesn't really need any HPC then?
<neuro> for me, $employer-2 did
<neuro> great big feck off Platform cluster to do chip simulations
<dwatkins> Yes and no, we do mostly desktop stuff, but the servers are very windws-centric, so when stuff is put into maintenance for server-side things, there's sometimes downtime.
<dwatkins> Granted, that's occasionally unavoidable, but it happens more than it should from my perspective.
<dwatkins> It's largely a matter of how things are designed, redundancy and so on.
<neuro> we're gonna have a 2 day outage at some point
<neuro> big mysql migration
<dwatkins> That's utterly unacceptable in the supercomputing world, neuro ;)
<neuro> oh jeez i know :)
<neuro> mixed 5.1/5.5 on centos/win to 5.6 on ubuntu
<dwatkins> I assume it's data that can't just be kept running on one system whilst they upgrade a copy, though.
<neuro> too many changes
<dwatkins> Such is often the case with customer databases and the like.
<neuro> also too many things doing rw to the master and ro to the slaves
<dwatkins> I just hope you don't have an IE-only interface to it ;)
<neuro> ooh, good call
<neuro> let me dig out an old XP laptop
<neuro> nah, we use a whole raft of stuff
<dwatkins> This is similar to what we use: http://wiki.scn.sap.com/wiki/download/attachments/107611091/5.JPG
<neuro> cli, obviously, plus mysql workbench and sequel pro / sqlyog
<neuro> holy crap
<dwatkins> I have a virtual machine dedicated to using it, so I know it will work no matter what the (Mac) laptop on my desk does.
<neuro> that makes Remedy look amazing
<neuro> $employer-2 was planning a big SAP rollout for last year or this year
<neuro> glad i got out when i did ;)
<dwatkins> The strange thing is, at SGI, we used a Windows 2000 application (called "Clarify"), and hated it a little at the time, but looking back, Clarify was superb, fast, and did the job very well.
<neuro> ah, Windows 2000
<neuro> second best Windows, ever
<dwatkins> We even had developers able to extend Clarify, and a web-based mail interface to automatically turn an e-mail into a support case with a modified version of squirrelmail.
<dwatkins> It now takes me 3 minutes to do what I could do in about 7 seconds in Clarify.
<neuro> this Clarify? http://dovetailsoftware.com/clarify/
<neuro> oh, they're a third party
<dwatkins> no, this is the best screenshot I can find quickly: http://i.cmpnet.com/callmag2000/content/custsupport110b.gif "Clarify ClearSupport" - it had other functions, too.
<dwatkins> Biggest thing that vexes me is that I could have ten cases open in separate windows within Clarify, but the system I use now only lets me have one session open at a time, so one case.
<neuro> Amdocs Clarify, used to belong to Nortel, right?
<dwatkins> No idea, I imagine it was bought up plenty of times.
<neuro> http://connectedplanetonline.com/mag/telecom_amdocs_collects_clarify/
<neuro> i'm actually in the market for a decent helpdesk system
<neuro> we have a homebrew thing in ASPX which is nasty
<dwatkins> Possibly, but the Clarify we used was an application, not browser-based.
<dwatkins> The most important thing is sane date ;)
<dwatkins> data, even
<neuro> I think that thing I first linked to is a web interface to the Clarify backend
<dwatkins> If your customer information is incomplete or the database can't be extended, if you grow to a certain size and can't extend it, you're hosed.
<neuro> the main problem we have is that our interface is awful
<neuro> and the email comms side is non existent
<dwatkins> Simple things like how a record is defined, what a site means - having a new entry for each company when they buy new software causes problems further down the line.
<neuro> i'd love to go for a SaaS solution, but they're all ridiculously expensive
<neuro> i'm going to end up eating the bullet and going RT or OTRS, i know it
<dwatkins> not come across those
<neuro> zendesk looks incredible, but just not cost-efficient enough for us
<neuro> really?
<dwatkins> zendesk is great, although I have my reservations about using an external system for anything like that
<neuro> i'd have thought most geeks by now would have had to touch either RT or OTRS at some point
<neuro> I actually managed an install at smoothwall back in the day, was a pain in the bum
<dwatkins> I've not been involved with choosing a CRM.
<neuro> it's not a CRM, it's just a helpdesk
<dwatkins> ah ok
<neuro> although no doubt people have grafted CRM onto it
<neuro>  /them
<dwatkins> I just know that I've used some systems which are great, mostly browser-based, simple, and hide their complexity.
<neuro> i saw zendesk or some other SaaS helpdesk system has gamification built in
<dwatkins> There's a video from an Australian company going around at the moment entitled "your user is drunk" which sums-up user interface design quite well
<neuro> so you get badges for closing X amount of tickets, or keeping to your KPIs, etc
<Seeker`> is youtube down?
<dwatkins> ahhh the joy of stats
<dwatkins> this works for me, Seeker` http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CbbBLVaPk
<neuro> Seeker`: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/youtube.com
<Seeker`> :O ITS NOT JUST ME
<neuro> youtube.com 500'd for me a minute ago, but fine now
<Seeker`> all this time I tohught I was alone in the world!
<neuro> i love people who do presos where they don't just read what's on the screen
<neuro> watching someone fire up powerpoint and read every bullet point is just paaaaaaaaainful
<dwatkins> yeah, neuro - that guy seems to really know his stuff
<dwatkins> bah, my lovely old iBook no longer does internets, the wifi seems to have stopped working properly
<neuro> hit it
<neuro> airport cards are pretty cheap on ebay iirc
<neuro> "Martinis and code"
<neuro> like it
<Seeker`> the ballmer peak is real
<dwatkins> It detects the networks which are there, I just can't join my WPA2 network even if I choose "other" and select WPA2 Persona.
<dwatkins> Personal
<neuro> G3 or G4?
<dwatkins> G3: http://imagine41.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/p/apple_ibook_g3_350_blue_005_3.jpg
<dwatkins> yeah, it's proper old, runs 10.3.9
<neuro> http://superuser.com/questions/308931/ibook-g4-tiger-10-4-11-cant-connect-via-secured-wifi
<neuro> although they're running 1.04
<neuro> oops, 10.4
<neuro> i can't type tonight, hands cold
<dwatkins> sounds very similar, though, thanks neuro
<neuro> gorgeous aluminium apple products + cold weather + crappy heating = brrrrrrr frostbitten finger tips!
<dwatkins> I'll have a fiddle with the settings on the routers, what makes this more complex is that I have two routers with the same SSID.
<daftykins> three of lifes guarantees: death, taxes and needing long fingernails immediately after cutting them
<neuro> been there
<dwatkins> I cut my nails so they're a couple mm long, just in case I need them.
<neuro> although i rarely let my nails grow longer than a fraction of an inch
<daftykins> :D normally i leave a single thumb longish, but i just could not separate a binsack just before :>
<neuro> mind you, i have long nails on the finger, i don't have those stubby little nails that some people have
<neuro> i was never a nailbiter
<dwatkins> My grandad had a split fingernail because he used it to turn screws.
<neuro> ooft
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah i don't get the biting thing
<daftykins> although i'm a nose picker so what i improve of in some areas i take back just the same...
<daftykins> ;D
<neuro> lol
<neuro> argh, another filled /boot
<neuro> stupid kernels
<daftykins> yeah :( they mount up don't they
<neuro> luckily i hacked up a script to uninstall all kernels except the one that's running and the most recent one
<neuro> although i realise now i'm not sure how it reacts if the two are one and the same
<neuro> i keep meaning to throw stuff like that up on github
<daftykins> :D
<neuro> i have a repo ready: http://github.com/evilneuro/tildebin
<penguin42> AlanBell: There was a paper by one of the SGI architects at some point before the Nintendo 64 predicting the evolution of the games consoles
<neuro> there we go
<neuro> https://github.com/evilneuro/tildebin/blob/master/remove-old-kernels
<daftykins> penguin42: do you remember the details?
<penguin42> hmm, might be able to find it
<penguin42> it's about 20 years since I looked at that stuff though
<daftykins> :D don't worry
 * penguin42 did his MSc in VR systems using SGI boxes in about 93-94
<daftykins> :o
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, that was their hayday
<dwatkins> desktops so heavy you could barely lift them on your own
<penguin42> dwatkins: Well, in the case of a Crimson more of a case of how many people were needed to push it
<neuro> we need to stop talking about anything closely related to games consoles
<neuro> my xbox one arrives on friday
<daftykins> we do? how come?
<neuro> happy dance
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> hear about the PS4 sabotage?
<neuro> sabotage?
<dwatkins> penguin42: ah yes, those make great fridges
<dwatkins> daftykins: I wondered if it was just a rumour
<neuro> oh "sketchy, at best", says kotaku
<daftykins> dwatkins: the amazon US reviews are showing a lot of DOA consoles
<dwatkins> daftykins: ah I see, when I read about it yesterday there weren't any figures on the number of DOAs
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm wondering if this is the paper I'm thinking of, but it's pay walled http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=801272
<neuro> CURSE YOU, ACM! *shakes fist*
<penguin42> exactly
<daftykins> d'aww
<penguin42> http://design.osu.edu/carlson/history/PDFs/geometry-engine.pdf
<penguin42> but I'm not actually sure if that's the paper I was originally thinking of
<penguin42> I thought there was something nearer early 90's
<penguin42> Yeh, that's not the one - but I think the one I'm thinking of was written by James Clark
<penguin42> most annoying, I can't find the paper - but I can't quite know what I'm searching for
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> but I think this would be what was originally called Porject Reality/Ultra 64 and it was a paper a good couple of years maybe a few more before Nintendo 64 actually came out
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z45nbzMLk98
<penguin42> hehe that was the day - a bit late in the day
<ali1234> i remember watching that on tv and thinking it was amazing
 * penguin42 remembers we had a SGI Crimson in about 94 that would be a bit before that doing real time 3d on polarised glasses using a pair of projectors - it was pretty damn neat
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-19
<ali1234> i did all my computer graphics labs on my housemate's sgi indy
<ali1234> in 1999 or whatever
<penguin42> 99 would be too early for an Indy
<penguin42> oh, sorry
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> I was a decade out :-)
<penguin42> we got the Indy when it was new in 93
<ali1234> yeah, it was really out of date by then
 * penguin42 has one behind him
<ali1234> but still roughly equal to what PCs could do, with opengl
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> oh man, dsample and I shouldn't have spent so much time considering should we participate in the doorbell crowdfunding or not
<Myrtti> the end result was I woke up the first time at five thinking I had heard a doorbell
<Myrtti> incidentally the fundraising is up for another hour if someone is interested http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mybells-the-smart-bells/x/5424084
<MooDoo> don't think it's going to meet it's goal if there is an hour left.
<Myrtti> flexible funding
<Myrtti> they promise to send you one even if they fail
<Myrtti> *shrug*
<MooDoo> ah sorry missed that bit :)
<Myrtti> might end up not getting it but it seems like a sweet deal and certainly competetive pricing if it does
<Myrtti> (that is, if it's not a hoax)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplio
<MooDoo> morning diplo even
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> allo allo
<directhex> wife's hudl is dead.
<DJones> That doesn't sound like a good recommendation given how new they are
<Myrtti> I'm sorry for being inflammatory, but sparked by discussion on another channel, I MADE DIS http://imgur.com/g/memes/KGQqPAh
<SuperMatt> morning all
<DJones> Myrtti: Its not cold, cool yes, but not cold, although the frozen water on my car may have disagreed with that
<Myrtti> I'm way too pedantic for my own health
<DJones> :)
<Myrtti> every time someone complains it's freezing cold and there's still liquid water on the ground, I just go "But but but"
<Myrtti> "three stages of matter!"
<Myrtti> "you are wrong"
<directhex> looks like wife did the same with the hudl receipt as with all other tesco receipts, i.e. bin
<Myrtti> did you use vouchers / clubcard?
<Myrtti> they might be able to verify your purchase with that information
<mungbean> is it broken?
<mungbean> scrolls up...yes
<Myrtti> and even if they won't, it shouldn't be a problem as it's clearly bought from Tesco and didn't work as expected, so it's faulty.
<mungbean> i've used credit card bills sucessfully as proof of purchase before
<mungbean> so.. this discourse.ubuntu.com : where does it fit itn with ubuntu forums, ideastorm and askubuntu?
<mungbean> and how will the lines be segregated
<popey> ideastorm doesn't exist
<popey> askubuntu = support
<popey> discourse = discussion
<directhex> Myrtti, they can. 2 days to generate new proof of purchase from clubcard records, though
<mungbean> forums are unrelated?
<SuperMatt> forums = ?
<mungbean> or is it a forum for people who don't like forums?
<SuperMatt> I do think discourse is a much better tech
<popey> forums still exist
<popey> for people who like forums
<Myrtti> wasn't vbulletin just cracked themselves
<Myrtti> or do I remember rumours wrong
<popey> the ubuntuforums were broken into recently, yeah
<popey> unrelated to discourse tho
<popey> morning btw
<SuperMatt> morning popey
<mungbean> i've seen support-ish stuff on discourse already
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<Myrtti> popey: no I mean http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/18/vbulletin_hacked/
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<Myrtti> dunno how valid that is, the forums seem a bit mum about it http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/vbulletin-announcements/vbulletin-announcements_aa/4007719-regarding-claims-of-new-0-day-exploits-in-vbulletin
<popey> oh, dunno about that
<popey> there's also the G+ community and other places too
<popey> the G+ community has 120K people or so
<mungbean> oopening discourse just crashed X
<mungbean> first time openiing a webpage ever did that
<jpds> mungbean: You better disclose that 0-second vulnerability.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Have a Bad Day Day! :-/
<SuperMatt> ...
<MooDoo> JamesTait: isn't it toilet day to day as well?
<Laney> I thought it was International Men's Day or something also
<JamesTait> MooDoo, oh, I don't know, is it?
<SuperMatt> Bad Day Day and Men's Day are more or less the same, aren't they?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: http://www.wateraid.org/uk/get%20involved/world%20toilet%20day
<MooDoo> world toilet day
<JamesTait> Laney, *every* day is Mens Day. ;)
<mungbean> there's a thing that says don't just update your test env to prod.
<mungbean> because your discourse site will be full of links like test.ubuntu-discourse.org
<DJones> MooDoo: World toilet day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYO2nw4inM
<mungbean> test is test and prod comes from a different root
<DJones> Ah, its linked on the website you posted
<JamesTait> DJones, thank you for that. :)
<JamesTait> And MooDoo too.
<DJones> You're welcome
<mungbean> "my facebook avatar couldn't be displayed, but it got fixed when i upgraded my kernel" :-|
<mungbean> https://plus.google.com/+VantisChen/posts/KD183iRS8HQ
<popey> anyone know a good online clock to have running in a browser?
<popey> http://onlineclock.net/ is okayish
<popey> but meh
<MartijnVdS> popey: what do you want from it?
<brobostigon> maybe a chromium binary clock plugin,? :)
<popey> display time
<popey> no frippery, just clearly display the time
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/browser-clock/lgmfkoamldgcapaoidgjaadfcpnnmpld?hl=en ?
<popey> and must be html/js, no flash, no extensions
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> What do people around here use for socket monitoring?
<MartijnVdS> popey: that could be an *offline* HTML file with a tiny bit of JS and CSS
<mungbean> http://www.w3schools.com/js/tryit.asp?filename=tryjs_timing_clock
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: netstat?
<popey> doesnt have to be, but i'd like to just go to a url
<mungbean> make your own clock.popey.com with a little script
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> mungbean++
<popey> not a bad idea
<MartijnVdS> worldclock.popey.com, with a dropdown timezone list (ask AlanBell about time zones in JS)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wow, nice.
<popey> nah, i only want my own time for now
<MartijnVdS> popey: and galactic standard time
<MartijnVdS> VERY important to have that
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: need a little bit more than just a display of what the current state is. I need to act upon a socket no longer connected or having gone away entirely
<mungbean> i think that w3schools page is the winner then
<brobostigon> and stardates, :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: isn't that the connecting app's responsibility?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: not in this case. I have a service that ends up with stale connections but doesn't know it
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: the service needs re-writing, but for now I just want to monitor the current one
<popey> http://clock.popey.com/
<popey> boom
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: should be possible to monitor that with netstat, it can tell you if a connection is "half-closed" from the other side
<popey> needs styling of course
<MartijnVdS> popey: that's quick! ;)
<bigcalm> proliant ~ $ netstat -l | grep 11960
<bigcalm> tcp        0      0 localhost:11960         *:*                     LISTEN
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: how do I read that?
<SuperMatt> popey: gawds, I need to make myself something like that, but specifically that reminds me what the current time is, what the time is in bst, gmt and utc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it means there's a socket in state "LISTEN" on port 11960 on 127.0.0.1 (TCP)
<SuperMatt> because I can never remember
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: but nothing has connected to it?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: might have, might not have
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: connected sockets are further down
<bigcalm> Humm
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: try: netstat -natup (n = no DNS lookups, a = listening and non-listening sockets, t = tcp, u = udp, p = show program name + PID of process handling stuff)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: | less
<bigcalm> I just connected a client on my dev system and grepped for 11960 again. It only showed the line I pasted above :S
<bigcalm> Okay
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you need the -a then
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Yes :)
<bigcalm> -la shows listening and established, ta :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "ss" (socket stat) will also be useful
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's the New and Shiny replacement for netstat, apparently, like "ip" has features that encompass "ifconfig", "route" and a few other tools
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.cyberciti.biz/files/ss.html
<popey> trying to get my desk setup ready for hangouts today for vUDS
<popey> so i have a clock on screen
<mungbean> anyone got a minix neo x5 mini ARM device?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta
<mungbean> popey: why not xclock?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: mir :P
<mungbean> meh
<popey> decided to go with ipad because it's a bigger screen so more visible
<MartijnVdS> popey: isn't there a Â£5 clock app? :P
<popey> there is
<popey> I am using the free one
<bigcalm> Maybe add GMT after the clock?
<bigcalm> popey: use your joggler :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgglMgroVI
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Galactic Mean Time?
<popey> hah
 * popey has no jogglers
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that's about right :D
<bigcalm> I'm quite pleased with that video and the app I wrote
<popey> started that video then alt-tabbed away
<popey> was "alarmed" when it shouted "WAKE UP!" at me
<bigcalm> Hahaha
<popey> thought I'd left a hangout running
<bigcalm> http://idophp.co.uk/projects/touch_alarm/
<MartijnVdS> Chrome tabs now have sound indicators on them
<bigcalm> Shame the CSS is a little off in Chromium and FireFox on my workstation for the alarm clock
<popey> http://imgur.com/YaMl9dT
<popey> that'll do
<bigcalm> popey: I'd be interested to know how well it works on iPad
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> You've tided!
<MartijnVdS> popey: something floating over your head
<MartijnVdS> +there's
<popey> heh
<popey> the cone of clean
<SuperMatt> doh, I've started typing "sudu juju" instead of "sudo juju"
<brobostigon> lol
<SuperMatt> stupid fingers
<SuperMatt> always pretending they know best
<MooDoo> my mailbox is full, what do I do?   sign
<MooDoo> sigh
<SuperMatt> delete emails?
<SuperMatt> run your own mail server
<MartijnVdS> use gmail?
<SuperMatt> or is this a work thing?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: MartijnVdS customer queries :S
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Thunderbird has this "Archive" feature, which can archive mail locally instead of on the server
<SuperMatt> export them somewhere that is backed up
<MartijnVdS> make sure you make backups though ;)
<MartijnVdS> ^5 SuperMatt
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: MartijnVdS just keep getting these questions from customers
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: isn't your mailbox several GB in size then?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: how big are these customer questions?
<funkyHat> SuperMatt: alias sudu=sudo â¢)
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: alias f-ing=sudo
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: haha
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I just need to write a script, if customer raises silly question then support reach down phone and slap = 1;
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: so THAT is what slapd is for!
<funkyHat> There is no such thing as a silly question â¢P
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: no, slapd can only store a record of who needs to be slapped â¢(
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: it's not the daemon that does the slapping?
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: your eyes seem out of whack
<funkyHat> câ¢
<MartijnVdS> out of alignment, even
<funkyHat> â ââ¢D
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: google whack?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: wiggity wiggity whack
<MartijnVdS> (jump! jump!)
<MooDoo> giggerty giggerty
<NET||abuse> hi guys, hav ea friend whos got an old box, Pentium4 2.6Ghz, 1GB Ram and Geforce FX5200, can he run 13.10 on that?
<NET||abuse> would unity work?
<NET||abuse> it's mostly for him to learn a bi of linux, he's a graphic designer whos spend the last 4 years doing some PHP on a light level.
<NET||abuse> so he's all Windows at the moment,
<penguin42> hmm, will that hardware do PAE?
<MartijnVdS> maybe
<NET||abuse> only knows linux through a little hosting packages, but mostly just used filezilla sftp
<NET||abuse> :)
<penguin42> NET||abuse: I think it'll work, Unity hmm might
<NET||abuse> but he wants to have a local server to host development copies of his work.
<NET||abuse> well, well see
<MooDoo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<DJones> NET||abuse: I think the answer to that may be no, I've got a similar machine with 2Gb ram, but same graphics card which is running 12.04, when I've looked at upgrading it warns me about graphics not being supported, possibly thats because I'm using NVida, but certainly 12.04 works with Unity
<MartijnVdS> DJones: it's probably not supported by nvidia's non-free driver, but the nouveau driver is fine these days
<SuperMatt> last night, as I was walking home, I saw an old VHS casette in the road with metres, upon metres of tape blowing in the wind
<SuperMatt> it occured to me in that moment that it was a sight I haven't seen for a decade and a half
<MartijnVdS> that used to be quite common
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: someone asked me the other week if I could get data off a floppy disk....:S
<DJones> MartijnVdS: At some point when I'm bored I may try a live cd with 13.10 to see how well it copes
<DJones> MooDoo: Thats wierd, I dug a laptop case out of the loft for a relative, while I was cleaning it, I found a handful of floppy disks in it with handwritten dates on them going back 10-15 years
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: up until last year I was using floppies quite regularly for bios updates
<MooDoo> DJones: awesome. i was going to see if I could find an old disk drive until I realised they were amiga floppies :D
<DJones> Hah
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: up until recently I had a USB floppy drive. Didn't work with GNU/Linux. :-(
<MooDoo> booo
<MooDoo> wow amigaos is still going
<ali1234> i can do amiga disks
<ali1234> there's probably less than 50% chance they still work though
<Azelphur> ali1234: I own original Amiga Disks
<Azelphur> XD
<MooDoo> wow just looking at amigakit.co.uk, still seems to be going strong
<ali1234> i've got about 6 original copies of workbench
<Azelphur> probably long since demagnetised though
<neuro> ali1234: you can "do" amiga disks? do you have a 3.5" drive slot somewhere on your person? :)
<ali1234> amigakit is super expensive
<DJones> Somewhere at my parents, I've got some 5 1/4" floppy disks with backups of some Chemical plant processing software I wrote about 25 years ago to run on ICL DRS-50's
<NET||abuse> DJones: thanks for that, were gonna try 13.10 and see if it works, even with nouvou
<DJones> NET||abuse: Let me know how you get on, something I'm interested in
<NET||abuse> cool, will do
<bashrc> I don't remember the last time I used a floppy disk, but it must have been at least 5 years ago
<bashrc> probably more
<penguin42> hmm yes, even for me I think it's been a long time
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: was it really floppy? or was it actually rigid? ;)
<bashrc> 3.5"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: By real I assume you mean 8"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have one of those, a few boxes of 5.25" and some more boxes of 3.5" at home
<MartijnVdS> nothing to read any of it with though
<bashrc> The 5.25" disks were quite floppy
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I gave the machine with 8" to a museum a few years ago
<bashrc> 8" was before my time
 * gordonjcp uses 3.5" floppies quite a lot, in musical equipment
<penguin42> bashrc: Mine mostly as well, but I got hold of a 1982 Unix machine that had an 8" floppy
<gordonjcp> I had a PDP11 that I donated to a museum with 8" floppies, 5.25" hard disks and 14" removable disk packs
<bashrc> there is famously an 8" floppy drive in the movie "war games"
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Heck that can't have been small
<gordonjcp> penguin42: not massive
<gordonjcp> penguin42: small fridge-freezer size
<bashrc> how much capacity did the 8" disks have.  The 5.25" ones were something like 360K
<gordonjcp> 19" rack about 30U high
<gordonjcp> depends on the format
<gordonjcp> the RX02s I had were 500K
<penguin42> bashrc: I think they were of the same type of size - few hundred K
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: 5.25" went up to 1.2MB (double side, high-density)
<gordonjcp> the RL02 disk packs were 10MB each
<bashrc> yes, although I remember the original single sided ones which I used on a BBC micro were about 360K
<gordonjcp> you basically could treat them like giant Zip disks
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk#Sizes.2C_performance_and_capacity
<penguin42> bashrc: I think Beeb single density 40track was 100K, so 200k for 80 track, and I think 400k for double
<bashrc> I was probably thinking of the 400K
<bashrc> barely anything by today's standards, but large by the standards of the time
<penguin42> nod
<DJones> bashrc: The DRS50 is was using was just a dumb terminal to an ICL Mainframe/Mini, I remember that having having 8" floppy drives and hard disks like these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DysanRemovableDiskPack.agr.jpg
<penguin42> DJones: Not this one then; https://plus.google.com/photos/+DavidAlanGilbert/albums/5492401778142755041/5492407402178145906?pid=5492407402178145906&oid=118251468822440261663
<DJones> penguin42: That might have been a bit before my time
<DJones> Fitted in something similar to this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Fotothek_df_n-10_0000117.jpg ... Have to love the 1970's fashion from the workers
<penguin42> DJones: Because you just had to wood panel your machine room
<penguin42> sigh, scottish power's site is broken
<DJones> penguin42: Thinking back, the room was wood panelled to waist height & the glass to the ceiling with stupid amounts of air conditioning
<DJones> s/the/then/
<penguin42> DJones: Well you had to put the wood where it would be able to catch if the computers smoked, mind you I hate to think what the aircon did to the wood - must have dried it out a lot
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thorium powered car :-D http://www.industrytap.com/thorium-fueled-automobile-engine-needs-refueling-once-a-century/15649 << Want
<DJones> No doubt LPS will be bought out by one of the oil producers & the project "shelved"
<ali1234> a car powered by a nuclear reactor... what can possibly go wrong
<MartijnVdS> next on Top Gear
<mungbean> i seem to have bought a multipack of french fries crisps
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: fries or crisps?
<mungbean> walkers crisps called french fries
<MartijnVdS> Very confusing
<penguin42> ali1234: I assume they'll argue that since it's only 1g or so in each car then what could possibly go wrong....
<ali1234> if they could make a viable reactor fit in and power a car, it would make much more sense to use it to power your house
<mungbean> i can't believe there's a variant of ubuntu called...well have a look http://ubuntu.g8.net/
<penguin42> mungbean: Capitalisation is important
<mungbean> so it seems
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm sure they'll just fit it under the drivers seat
<mungbean> so is hardware acceleration, which most of these rk* stuff doesn't have
<penguin42> mungbean: You mean graphics? Most of them have tone of the standard ARM gpus
<mungbean> specifically for the minix neo x5
<AlanBell> mungbean: the build for the Pi will *not* be called that
<penguin42> mungbean: If it's that rk then it's got a Mali 400 and a video unit on
<penguin42> mungbean: Whether they have it working in the non-android image is probably the bigger issue
<mungbean> yep, more interested in true linux on it
<Guest29883> does anyone know of a fix for the issue with compiz?
<ali1234> which issue with compiz? there are hundreds
<AlanBell> !details
<lubotu3> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<Guest29883> when clicking the search bar, search bar comes up for about 3 seconds then screen resets. version 13.10.
<Guest29883> and then states there is an error and then goes back to original screen but unable to do much else so have to log into terminal and restart lightdm everytime
<AlanBell> by search bar do you mean the dash?
<Guest29883> yes thats the one
<AlanBell> so you click the logo top left, at the top of the launcher and the dash pops up then resets
<Guest29883> yes thats right
<mungbean> resets to the login screen?
<ali1234> i bet something in "recently used" is corrupted or something
<ali1234> try making a new user profile and see if it still happens
<AlanBell> just log in as guest to test it
<Guest29883> i've installed compizconfig-settings-manager and disabled the annimation but this doesn't do much. This is a fresh install (two fresh installs) both are the same
<ali1234> what video card do you have?
<AlanBell> could be related to the graphics card,
<AlanBell> or a particularly unusual screen resolution?
<Guest29883> have been the same and i'm not entirely sure i'll have a look. (does this mean i'm not in luck if it's nvidea?)
<Guest29883> doesn't look like there is an external video card
<AlanBell> lspci in a terminal should list the card
<ali1234> could be that you are running nouveau - it is incredibly unstable on some cards
<ali1234> launchpad is down :/
<mungbean> WFM
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251431 -> blank page
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1251431 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "user background gets painted over background specified in config file" [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> works for the bot ;)
<mungbean> and me
<MartijnVdS> also, wfm
<ali1234> yeah it's working again now
<Guest29883> think its this one: VGA compatible controller : intel corporation E7221 integrated graphics controller (rev 04)
<popey> AlanBell: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad will see some people joining I expect this week
<daftykins> E7221 is Pentium 4 era 0o
<daftykins> Guest29883: did it do this in liveCD mode as well as the installed version?
<Guest29883> daftkins: not tried the live as i need this installed on my work desktop
<AlanBell> popey: ok, I will watch for them
<popey> ta
<daftykins> Guest29883: so when you booted media you just went straight to install?
<daftykins> i think your system is too old to work right
<Guest29883> daftykins: yes thats right i have it installed on a laptop from 2000 which works fine but this desktop just won't work
<daftykins> Guest29883: i would boot into a live session just to confirm it does the same thing, then confirm that your installed version is fully updated
<daftykins> beyond that i have no idea, seems very old hardware
<Guest29883> daftykins: probably is i saw the pc laying around so decided to use that. Maybe a bad idea. I think i'm just going to go with centos instead see if i get any luck with that
<daftykins> cor it's cold today :S
<mungbean> is youtube gonna ask me every time which user i will be using youtube as?
<daftykins> i've been having that :( where it tries to put your real name on your account?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: what do you mean? it asks?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> use as "mungbean" or mr.mungbean@gmail.com
<MartijnVdS> so pick one
<mungbean> the display name
<MartijnVdS> or link the accounts
<MartijnVdS> DONE
<mungbean> it asks every time
<mungbean> after i login
<MartijnVdS> don't delete your cookies?
<mungbean> i've logged from different devices a few times
<mungbean> i also wish i could remove GB feed from my home page permanetly
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can, just use http://www.youtube.com/feed/subscriptions instead of youtube.com's default main page
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: MUCH (c)leaner, shows just videos of people you've subscribed to
<popey> i use youtube feather interface
<popey> so i see no comments at all on youtube
<popey> \o/
<popey> videos start faster too
<MartijnVdS> popey: since G+, they only start loading comments once you scroll down
<popey> nice
<popey> i dont care about comments tho
<popey> so happy to never see them
<MartijnVdS> There are actually good ones on the videos I watch
<daftykins> good comments!? that's unpossible!
<mungbean> i saw one once
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: subscribe to better channels :)
<popey> i used to like watching Bug
<MartijnVdS> The "DFTBA" (John & Hank Green) media empire (if you can call it that) has quite good comments usually
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEgCrw9j2eQ
<daftykins> only subscription i have is to the feed of the guy that posted the HP Touchpad Android videos ^_^
<mungbean> greentheonly?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: vlogbrothers, scishow, crashcourse
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEgCrw9j2eQ#t=6m51s for example
<mungbean> the russian guy left to join the meerkat adverts
<daftykins> mungbean: yep!
<mungbean> i subscribe to LAs but i haven't listened to them for couple of years
<mungbean> linux action show
<mungbean> don't even know if its still going
<popey> it is
<popey> they also have an "unplugged" show where people hang out and chat on mumble
<popey> which is somewhat better in some ways
<mungbean> it turned into a moan-fest
<mungbean> brian would rant about feodra every week
<daftykins> they did have a bit of a rant it seemed
<mungbean> i used to listen every week
<popey> bryan isnt on it anymore
<mungbean> yeah i stopped listening when that other dude came on
<popey> hasnt been for a while
<mungbean> but i realised i hadn't been enjoying it before then anyway
<popey> i rarely watch the whole thing
<mungbean> it also coincided with the linux world becoming less exciting
<popey> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22027/intro-by-jono-bacon-keynote-by-mark-shuttleworth/
<MooDoo> wow that time already?
<popey> ya
<daftykins> i'm getting concerned at how often these years are flying by now
<MooDoo> joined ubuntu-uds-plenary
<popey> it happens as you get older
<MartijnVdS> also, vUDS is more often
<daftykins> hah yeah i got that bit popey ;)
<mungbean> i'm willing them to go fater so my baby can grow up
<MooDoo> I'm not old cough cough
<MartijnVdS> +held
<daftykins> mungbean: stop that! :P
<mungbean> got 5 hrs sleep instead of 9 last night
<mungbean> cannot function like this
<daftykins> :(
<MooDoo> 5 hours is the norm for me
<MooDoo> well 5.5
<mungbean> who are you, maggie thatcher?
<MooDoo> lol no I always go to bed about midnight and up at 5:30 it's all i need
<mungbean> :'(
<MooDoo> i have two young kids so i'm used to it now
<mungbean> imagine how much more i could get done
<mungbean> is everyone listeining to the UDS thing? is there a TLDW version?
 * NET||abuse is listening to Deadmau5
<NET||abuse> I'll read the cliff notes on google+
<bashrc> is anything interesting being said?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: no
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: never!
<bashrc> I htought as much
<directhex> deadmau5. the choice of llamas everywhere.
<arsen> 4<-- llama
<MartijnVdS> I prefer real musicians.
<mungbean> chas 'n' dave?
<arsen> music is music, i don't care what tools were used to make it.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: I'm not complaining about the tools of his trade
<MartijnVdS> arsen: more about the tool behind those tools ;)
<dwatkins> I prefer surreal musicians.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: so, psychedelic rock? :)
<dwatkins> Ozric Tentacles are a good example.
<MartijnVdS> judging by my own music collection, I seem to have a thing for female singer-songwriters
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: stina nordenstam?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: have heard the name, don't remember if I've heard the music
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I'm going to see Nerina Pallot in December though -- second time this year (last time was in Minack Theatre in Cornwall last May)
<directhex> arsen, no, really! http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ytqg5/Nuzzle_and_Scratch_Frock_and_Roll_Robots/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I can't even.
<directhex> like i said. <directhex> deadmau5. the choice of llamas everywhere.
<arsen> hm
<arsen> UDS has me thinking about getting a ubuntu phone :o
<dwatkins> I don't mind Deadmou5, but I prefer Pendulum.
<dwatkins> ...and then there's Lindsey Stirling
<awilkins> I quite like Ms Stirling
<mungbean> i like Â£ sterling
<daftykins> finally updated my ubuntu flash drive to 12.04.3 from 10.04.4 - things actually boot now!
<awilkins> I don't think she'd do her career a favour inserting that as a middle name .. Lindsey "Pounds" Sterling
<mungbean> i don't know who these people are
<awilkins> Violin playing pixie person.
<awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI
<arsen> big fan of 'Pretty Lights' recently.
<arsen> niche, awilkins.
<popey> AlanBell: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21972/ubuntu-enterprise-desktop-roundtable/  may be of interest
<popey> coming in 5 mins
<DJones> Where has the clock gone in 13.10? Last update has removed it
<popey> i have it disappear when indicator-datetime goes awol or unity-panel-service crashes
<DJones> killall unity-panel-service has brought it back
<DJones> Looks like bug 1228360
<lubotu3> bug 1228360 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "No clock in menu bar and can't edit Clock settings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228360
<DJones> Although thats from September
<ali1234> DJones: there's a fix in -proposed
<ali1234> DJones: restarting the panel nearly always fixes it too
<DJones> Does the bug follow through after a restart
<AlanBell> popey: listening along now
<ali1234> DJones: afaik it's a race condition on the first startup of the panel after a system reboot
<ali1234> ie the dbus services don't start fast enough
<ali1234> when you restart the panel, the services don't get restarted
<NET||abuse> woah, annoying problem, chrome, flash 11,2,202,327 , probably the pepper pot version.. every time i change tabs back and forward, youtube video turns into a black square. the audio is still going, but no picture :(
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: are you running other video apps?
<DJones> AlanBell: Another pi kickstarter project (from ruskin147's twitter feed) http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-anyone-can-make
<AlanBell> nice packaging for it
<DJones> It is, it looks quite a neat project
<AlanBell> yeah, it is just an accessory kit, but it does look well thought out
<AlanBell> sort of thing they probably should have shipped with on day 1 :)
<ali1234> except that it would quadruple the price
<AlanBell> yup
 * popey is playing gtetrinet
<popey> its rather fun
<MartijnVdS> wow, tetrinet. Blast from the past!
 * brobostigon is playing prince of persia.
<mungbean> disappointed you can't buy gift vouchers for people with gift vouchers on amazon
<brobostigon> microshaft must have lost it entirly now, spending Â£4.5bn on nokias mobile business, which is going wildly downhill already, and worsoned since nokia started to use WP*.
<mungbean> cheaper than it woulda been
<mungbean> shareholders sometimes like to see this kind of thing
<brobostigon> i think i can make a fair bet, their market share is going to get even worse, and i think i can bet, that microshaft probably payed nokia's shareholders of fairly well, and i can bet, that those people that objected to the sale, also were those that objected to nokia using WP-OS.
<MartijnVdS> WordPerfect-OS? 8-)
<brobostigon> windows phone operating system
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corel_Linux ;)
<mungbean> i don';t think they paid off the shareholders enough based on the share price a few years ago
<mungbean> another company could have revived fortunes , or at least tried to
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i am familier with, :)
<popey> i predict nokia will revive
<brobostigon> using something else than WP, it has been a disaster since they started using windows.
<popey> not really
<brobostigon> it seems so,
<popey> symbian wasn't a fabulous smartphone once ios and android arrived
<popey> they were already going downhill
<brobostigon> yes, as i have already said.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Nokia's hardware is nice, and it gives MS a foot in to get WP sales
<brobostigon> penguin42: on the former, i agree, nokias hw has always been good. but why MS sees a future in something that from most outsiders seems a dead end for MS, i dont know.
<penguin42> brobostigon: I think they might actually be able to get enough to make it worth it for them - remember they don't have to make it huge, just large enough
<GentileBen> Christ, Ronaldo just scored an unbelievable goal.
<GentileBen> If he doesn't win the Ballon D'or this year...just wow.
<GentileBen> He's got a hat-trick against Sweden but the last goal was incredible. He was running away from goal, runs past the goalie and...wow.
<brobostigon> penguin42: well, i think compared to what they have now, a single figure market, just doubling that, would be some achievement for them.
<mungbean> GentileBen: which goal?
<mungbean> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17e3ww_goal-cristiano-ronaldo-sweden-2-3-portugal-19-11-2013-highlights_sport
<mungbean> meh
<mungbean> ronaldo and zlatan are both jerks,shame one has to make it through
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/1qyuov/id_really_like_to_watch_the_doctor_who_50th/
 * MartijnVdS tags the OP as being "Probably popey"
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> "BBCaboos"
<MartijnVdS> isn't that a show on CeeBeebies?
<MartijnVdS> or however you spell that
<penguin42> hmm, Sony advertising 4k HD TV
<NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: jeebus, lost track of time, I got called, then missus "made" me have dinner :)
<NET||abuse> regarding the flash bug from,,, some time ago.. no, no other video app running
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-20
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning everyone,
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> morning hrh popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm late today - anyway morning.
<Myrtti> merh
<MooDoo> morning morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> pah why is no one here to say morning at 6am ;)
<MooDoo> well 7am lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I was locked out of the office, and my laptop battery was empty
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: unacceptable ;)
<brobostigon> connecbot on his nexus5 :)
<brobostigon> connectbot*
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: obviously, otherwise I'd been working from the hallway (wifi penetrates walls now!) ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what's wifi?  Don't you use a long cat5 cable under the door like me :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: this laptop doesn't have ethernet
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: wow what laptop? <curious>
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Dell XPS-12
<MartijnVdS> ordered when you couldn't get the previous "Developer Edition" XPS-13 anymore, and before the new one was announced
<MartijnVdS> *sigh*
<MooDoo> ah!
<JohnRobert> hello
<MooDoo> morning JohnRobert
<Laney> happy moist morning
<Laney> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
<MooDoo> it's chuffing it down here in notts
<Laney> sure is
<Laney> glad I don't have to go out :P
<MooDoo> Laney: hope it stops at 3:30 or i'm going to get wet riding home :)
<Laney> was hoping to go to the bank at lunch :(
<MooDoo> Laney: argos for me :S
<SuperMatt> today in the office: http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20131120_090816.jpg
<SuperMatt> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
<popey> One of those mornings. Just managed to pour coffee over iPad and Nook at the same time
<MartijnVdS> :(
<popey> all cleaned up in rapid time tho
<SuperMatt> ouchy
<SuperMatt> maybe we need to dedicate a UDS session to popey's various tech fails
<SuperMatt> it seems every week something of yours goes wrong
<popey> â»
<popey> Oh, and my desktop boots to a bios screen saying B4 now and then
<popey> and the keyboard is sometimes not detected (I believe B4 means this)
<popey> also, when booting to Ubuntu/Windows on it, sometimes I have to wait for 30 seconds after login screen before keyboard works at all
<popey> fine once it works, but there seems to be some BIOS/USB issue going on
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Name Your PC Day! :-D
<popey> alan@wopr:~$ hostname
<popey> wopr.popey.com
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> wolk
<popey> pronounced volk?
<MartijnVdS> popey: vell, not quite :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: ask Google Translate, it knows how to pronounce it :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalmian
<MooDoo> hello bigcalm :D
<popey> Hmm. spotify broke for me today.
<MartijnVdS> popey: on LInux? let me check mine
<popey> yeah
<popey> message on the console about deadlock detected
<MartijnVdS> are you running trusty or saucy?
<popey> http://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/LINUX-60-sec-freeze-at-startup/td-p/392592
<popey> saucy
<MartijnVdS> popey: 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 ?
<popey> 1:0.9.1.55.gbdd3b79.203-1
<popey> hmm
<MartijnVdS> popey: there's been a new key for their archive for about 5-6 months now I guess (maybe a bit longer)
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe you didn't get that, and it stopped upgrading?
<popey> I'm on my desktop not laptop, probably why
<popey> i dont think i have the ppa enabled here
<popey> yeah, no ppa
<MartijnVdS> popey: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> and their key is 94558F59 I think
<popey> Get:1 http://repository.spotify.com/ stable/non-free spotify-client amd64 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1 [47.4 MB]
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<popey> hmm, still blocking / greying out
<MartijnVdS> StrÃ¤nge
<popey> StrÃ¤nge indeed
<SuperMatt> I've just given up with spotify
<popey> 09:44:16.634 E [storage.cpp:3307                ] Storage error: realm: 3, file: 609a7fbfde6aae95babb1b18231ee7f3a3ceee01, error: 709, OS error: 0, count: 1
<SuperMatt> I've moved to google play
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I want to, but I get spotify for free
<bashrc> Have never tried spotify
<SuperMatt> ah
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I've told Google which music I have using their management tool, and the playlists it generates are amazing :)
<popey> Failed to create secure directory (/run/user/1000/pulse): Permission denied
<SuperMatt> well I can't agrue with that
<popey> oof
<SuperMatt> /o\
<popey> bug 1197395
<lubotu3> bug 1197395 in systemd (Ubuntu Saucy) "/run/user/$ID/pulse owned by root and not by the user" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1197395
<Laney> THAT BUG
<dvrr> hiiiiiiiiii
<bashrc> you mean you're not logged in as root all the time? :)
<MooDoo> bashrc: I am, is that ok?  ps want my bank details ;)
<bashrc> ;-)
<popey> oh. it's one of those bugs
<bashrc> an eye-rolling bug?
 * popey ignores the discussion on those bugs and chowns /run/user/1000/pulse
<dvrr> how to resolve  807 error   vpn  server
<dvrr> MooDoo
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: (a) what kind of VPN server? (b) What did you do (details!), what happened, what did you expect would happen?
<dwatkins> I'm reminded of the article entitled "cost of 0wnership" which detailled the disadvantage of how powerful linux is and how a compromised linux server can be more useful to hackers than a compromised windows server.
<dvrr> pptpd
<dwatkins> Many people misread it as "ownership" instead of "0wnership", perhaps a better title would have been in order.
<dvrr> i fallow   this url    http://jesin.tk/setup-pptp-vpn-server-debian-ubuntu/
<dwatkins> http://www.immunitysec.com/downloads/tc0.pdf for the curious
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: you know PPTP is not secure, right?
<popey> I'm getting lots of tabs crashing in chromium today
<dvrr> i don't know    i  search in google only
<popey> http://store.steampowered.com/app/253370/ crashes chrome for me
<popey> THANKS DIRECTHEX
<popey> THIRECTHEX
<mungbean> 123 pages of PDF to go through for job candidate shortlisting :-|
<TheOpenSourcerer> Worth a read: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/
<dvrr> MartijnVdS : which   vpn server is secure  please  tel me    i will search in google  i will configure
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN. OpenVPN is the easiest to configure.
<popey> my 13.10 desktop is pretty borked and I can't put my finger on what it is
<popey> tabs crashing left and right in chromium, slow response
<Laney> thought you said something about problems after moving it
<popey> yeah, re-seated RAM
<popey> memtest okay
<mungbean> once we had a contractor who installed RAM with vaseline on her fingers
<mungbean> smoke started pouring out of the PC
<Laney> I've been getting spontaneous reboots once a day lately
<Laney> :( :( :(
<mungbean> chrome crashed my X session when opeining discourse.ubuntu yesterday
<popey> laptop is also re-triggering usb connection to iphone
<popey> every second or two
<MooDoo> I had a crash last night using eog, but I'm using lts ;)
<mungbean> popey is a one man advert not to buy a TP
 * mungbean haz LTS
<popey> how is it thinkpad related?
<MooDoo> mungbean: I'm using lts on the desktop, don't need anything else.
<mungbean> i was thinking of your heat problems the other day
<popey> pretty sure it's kernel or desktop
<popey> oh yeah, that sucks
<popey> I probably wont buy another thinkpad now
<popey> although I am told the newer intels are better heat performers
<MartijnVdS> developer edition XPSes though...
<mungbean> i still see a lot of dell latitude d6x0 around. testament to how solid they were
<popey> yeah
<popey> G+ notification: "Carlo Orosei invited you to join gnewsense"
<popey> I'll get right on that.
<mungbean> after joining diapora
 * popey is on diaspora â»
<mungbean> that still exists?
<MooDoo> wow diaspora still goin?
<mungbean> its a fight to the death
<mungbean> last man standing
<popey> last activity 29 days ago on my stream
<mungbean> popey and jef spaleta are the only 2 left
<popey> not that I follow anyone
<popey> I only login when someone mentions it
<popey> thanks mungbean
<mungbean> pleasure
<popey> haha.. most recently update is this...
<popey> William Kennington - 20 days ago - "Join us now and share the software."
<popey> followed by a comment...
<popey> Ryan Larson - "YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEEEE HACKERS YOU'LL BE FREEEEEEE!!!"
<popey> yup. thats diaspora
<MartijnVdS> so the Bad Voltage guys were right about it!
<MooDoo> lol 2 years ago I got the last notification in diaspora
<popey> damnit, you reminded me about bad voltage now
<MartijnVdS> popey: is that bad?
<mungbean> did anyone listen to that radio4 prog with maggie philbin?
<popey> no, stored it for later listening
<popey> somewhere
<mungbean> i might get it sped up so i can listen in double time
<mungbean> half the time
<MartijnVdS> popey: I use Podkicker Pro for that, on my phone
<MartijnVdS> works great :)
<mungbean> LAS would sound like the muppets on double speed
<mungbean> hey bert, hey ernie
<Laney> hope the sloes turn up today
<Laney> #gingingingin
<mungbean> sounds like crazy frog
<MooDoo> Laney: what does the fox say?
<Laney> the... fox...
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: The FOX says "Fgshgfhgs MURRICA", right?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: think you'll find it's spelt cha cha cha cha cha cha chow ;)
<MartijnVdS> it's like the Daily Fail of American TV
<bashrc> is that like 20th century fox?
<MooDoo> bashrc: for your entertainment ;) - http://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE
<mungbean> lubotu needs to parse youtube urls and post the titles
<mungbean> "Salary expectation: Â£1 000 000
<mungbean> hmm
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what about the opsnsuse version ;) - http://youtu.be/VNkDJk5_9eU
<dvrr>  i will configure   IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN.  only  ubuntu system not in router  it is secure
<Laney> MooDoo: sky's looking nice and blue now!
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: no
<MooDoo> Laney: yeah rather happy about that
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: IPSec/L2TP is one choice, OpenVPN is another choice.
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: you don't have to do both, just OpenVPN is enough
<popey> Laney: got a new chair yet?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "What does the FAQ say?"
<Laney> popey: yeah, went for the markus
<Laney> not quite ready to step up to the aeron/m<whatever the new one is> just yet
<popey> i had to superglue my chair to stop it flipping back with a *crack*
<Laney> oh I took a picture of the old one
<Laney> it was quite amusing towards the end of its life
<popey> yeah, I saw the nice liste it had developed
<dvrr> MartijnVdS:okk  thank you very much
<Laney> ah did I upload it?
<Laney> clever laney
<popey> you did
<Laney> there's a standing desk in my future though I feel </trendy>
<popey> yeah, I'd like one of those
<popey> maybe when I finally get the garage converted to an office
<MartijnVdS> Laney: with or without a treadmill?
<Laney> haha
<MartijnVdS> Laney: people do that.. at *very* low speeds
<MartijnVdS> (slower than "strolling")
<Laney> yeah I've heard about it... probably not for me
<popey> ok, now imgr is causing chromium to crash
<popey> any suggestions on debugging this?
<MartijnVdS> popey: time to reseat your RAM
 * popey reboots to memtest for a bit
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mungbean> predicts errors
<dwatkins> I'd be looking at the strace output, too.
 * popey looks up the price of new RAM â¹
<aquarius__> yo, dudes. Ubuntu 13.10 machine won't boot; dies n grub rescue. Grub says unknown flesystem. Have booted from usb; i now plan to fsck the partition on the disk, but.. how do i know which filesystem it is? Was a clean install of *probably* 11.10 and then upgraded since. ext3? ext4?
<MartijnVdS> ext4
<dwatkins> mount it and check the release file
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: he can't mount, errors.
<aquarius__> dwatkins:  can't mount it
<popey> you dont need to know what filesystem it is
<popey> fsck will figure that out
<popey> "sudo fdisk -l"
<popey> that will list all partitions
<mungbean> there's another grub resuce cd, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
<dwatkins> oh sorry, thought that was just a boot problem
 * dwatkins confused fsck and mkfs in his mind
<aquarius__> popey: fdsk just says the partition is "Linux"
<dwatkins> probably not a good thing to confuse
<popey> aquarius__: i didnt say it would tell you what the filesystem was
<popey> just which partition it is, so you know what to feed fsck
<popey> sudo fsck /dev/sdb1
<popey> for example
<MartijnVdS> add -v in there, maybe
<MartijnVdS> if you want verbosity
<MartijnVdS> uh -V
<aquarius__> popey: I did "fsck -N /dev/sda1". It says stuff about /sbin/fsck.ext2
<MartijnVdS> .. both?
<aquarius__> popey: (-N is dry run)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius__: fsck.ext* = the same
<popey> "stuff"
<popey> you may want to install some useful stuff in the live environ
<aquarius__> popey: am concerned that it can't read the disk and so assumes ext2
<popey> like smartmontools and pastebinit
<dwatkins> does it actually fail to mount?
<aquarius__> dwatkins: yes
<popey> what does it say when it fails to mount?
<dwatkins> what's the error?
<aquarius__> it demands that I tell it the filesystem
<MartijnVdS> so tell it ext4
<MartijnVdS> if that doesn't work, ext3
<MartijnVdS> etc :)
<MartijnVdS> unless you installed btrfs, but you'd know if you had
<aquarius__> MartijnVdS: I don't know enough to know whether that might make things worse. :(
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: your answer is much better than using xxd, which I was about to suggest ;)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius__: it won't.
<aquarius__> hang on, let me irc from the live environ
<dwatkins> I know NTFS contains the letters NTFS in the first few bytes of the filesystem, not sure if that's the case for ext[2-4]
<dwatkins> ...and I'm not about to unmount something to find out ;)
<popey> aquarius__: you're sure you're mounting the right partition?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah, ext3 is just ext2 with a journal, and ext4 is just ext3 with some other improvement bits, it's all quite gradual
<popey> (hence me asking you to run fdisk -l)
<aquarius_live> yo.
<MartijnVdS> it's the aquaman
<aquarius_live> popey: yes
<dwatkins> wow, the first few k of my ext3 partition are zeroes
<AlanBell> sudo head /dev/sda1 doesn't show that much of interest
<popey> We're live here today with Stuart Langridge who is coming to us from "shit creek"... Hows it going there Stuart?
 * dwatkins shrugs and lets it carry on
<MartijnVdS> popey: He seems to be looking for a paddle 8-)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: strings doesn't say much either
<aquarius_live> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6447541/
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "file" should be able to identify it, if you have a dump of the first few kb/mb
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: /dev/sdb1: block special
<dwatkins> oh an actual copy, duh
<popey> have you tried mounting it by specifying the filesystem?
<MartijnVdS> don't forget -o ro
<aquarius_live> so I can't mount without knowing filesystem type, and I don't know how to find that out. I can try ext4, then ext3, etc... but am concerned that mount is meant to do this for me and isn't, which suggests deeper corruption
<popey> mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nice! /tmp/sdb1: Linux rev 1.0 ext4 filesystem data,
<popey> you can mount it read-only if you want
<MartijnVdS> -o ro -> read-only -> important in situations like this
<dwatkins> I think we have a winnar
<dwatkins> dd is your friend
<aquarius_live> popey: I didn't do that because I don't know what the filesystem *is*. MartijnVdS suggests that trying ext4 and getting it wrong is not a problme
 * dwatkins goes to read a really boring security document
<popey> i agree with MartijnVdS, but you can mount -o ro
<popey> mount -o ro -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt
<GentileBen> "Ubuntuâs Mir wonât replace X in 14.04 desktop"
<GentileBen> Oh joy.
<popey> also, smartmontools provides smartctl - use that to check if the ssd is badgered
<Myrtti> how bad is it when I can vividly imagine aquarius_live reading his messages out?
<aquarius_live> won't mount.
<Myrtti> I need more tea, maybe with a dash of vodka
<MartijnVdS> aquarius__: which error?
<aquarius_live> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, (etc)
<GentileBen> "And Ubuntu for phones and tablets will eventually support Android apps." <-- is anybody else apathetic to Ubuntu phones?
<aquarius_live> fails for ext4, ext3, ext2.
<jussi> Myrtti: vodka with a dash of tea?
<aquarius_live> popey: will try smartmontools
<GentileBen> With Android, Google gets all your personal info. With Ubuntu, Amazon and Canonical get all your personal info.
<popey> its not encrypted is it?
<GentileBen> And the NSA gets info for both.
<popey> GentileBen: shut up
<Myrtti> jussi: for gods sake, it's Wednesday and not even noon yet
<GentileBen> Hey popey, shut up yourself.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius__: ok, so e2fsck -v /dev/sda1
<popey> tiresome trolling about amazon is tiresome
<SuperMatt> I think popey has a better idea what's going on
<SuperMatt> and the amazon thing is all just FUD
<jussi> Myrtti: hehe, ok, wait an hour or 2  :D
<aquarius_live> ooh, errors from smartctl
<popey> pastey pastey
<popey> heh, that could have sounded like I was telling the pastey guy to paste
<popey> which could hold true for aquarius_live
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: "new underpants" kind of errors?
<aquarius_live> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6447563/
<popey> "what did I have on this disk which isn't backed up" kind of errors?
<aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: nfi. I know nothing about this stuff.
<aquarius_live> I am *reasonably* confident in my backups.
<dwatkins> if I could remember how to get dd to output to stdout, I'd suggest using that piped into file (count being low)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: don't provide an "of=" and it'll use stdout
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that fails :'(
<aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: you suggest e2fsck, but what if it's ext3?
<aquarius_live> am extremely, extremely scared of screwing this up :)
<directhex> aquarius_live, the ext2 tools still work.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: e2fsck checks ext{2,3,4}
<aquarius_live> ah, that's reassuring
<directhex> aquarius_live, the mount will have failed because the "superblock" which defines the file system start point is corrupted. fortunately, ext* stores lots of spare copies
<aquarius_live> ok, e2fscking
<AlanBell> 7 raspberry pi devices have arrived
<directhex> aquarius_live, "dumpe2fs /dev/sdXX | grep superblock" will tell you where all the superblocks found on the disk are
<MartijnVdS> if there are logs in SMART though, it's time to order a new hard disk
<popey> \o/
<aquarius_live> heh. Inode 7 has illegal block(s).  Clear<y>?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: \o/
<aquarius_live> Not at all sure whether I should say yes or no to that question!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: \o/
<directhex> aquarius_live, and "fsck -b SOMEBLOCKNUMBER /dev/sdXX" will do a fsck using the backup
<directhex> aquarius_live, if this is an SSD, it is possibly failure. if it's failure, it's likely catastrophic. non-enterprise ssds have totally catastrophic failure modes due to the way flash is written
<aquarius_live> it's an SSD, indeed
<aquarius_live> only had the darn thing two years! grrrrr
<directhex> aquarius_live, which brand?
<aquarius_live> not sure. whatever came in it
<MartijnVdS> what did it come in? :)
<aquarius_live> Device Model:     JMicron 616 SSD
<aquarius_live> so says smartctl
<directhex> hm
<directhex> aquarius_live, oh, you can also try mounting using a backup superblock, with -o sb=SOMEBLOCKNUMBER, using the numbers you got from dumpe2fs
<SuperMatt> all right, here I go in to the heady world of writing my own juju charms
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: good luck!
<dwatkins> restoring from backup, SuperMatt?
<SuperMatt> thanks, I think I'm going to need it
<directhex> when a cell in a flash chip on an enterprise becomes corrupt, it takes all data stored in that same row or column, not just the cell.
<directhex> in a consumer ssd, the failure is in 3 axis, not 2, so you lose N times more data
<aquarius_live> directhex: and dumpe2fs's lines such as "Backup superblock at 163840, Group descriptors at 163841-163848" means that 163840 is a block number? So mount -o ro -t ext3 -o sb=163840 /dev/sda1 mnt ?
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: no, I need nginx with a specific plugin that isn't in the repos, and then of course I'll have my own configs to go with that
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: sounds like you have a complex day ahead of you
<SuperMatt> sure I do!
<directhex> aquarius_live, you pass options to mount of the form -o option1,option2,option3. so -o ro,sb=163840 but basically yes
<SuperMatt> can't decide if it's better to compile the version of nginx first, and stick it in a git repo, or have the charm download the lastest version of nginx and the plugin and compile them and install time
<aquarius_live> same errors about a bad superblock or wrong fs type when passing -o sb=whatever. Tried as -t ext{4,3,2} with -o ro,sb=X for X being a few of the superblocks shown by dumpe2fs :(
<popey> is there some science to the patterns memtest uses?
<popey> I mean I get 00000000 and FFFFFFFF and the 010101 and 101010 ones..
<dwatkins> I assumed they were random.
<bashrc> which reminds me, there should be a charm for a freedombox type install (diaspora, owncloud, etc)
<popey> no, there's repeating patterns
<MartijnVdS> popey: all zeroes, all ones, bit on, bit off
<popey> bc709893 for example
<popey> 438f676c
<MartijnVdS> popey: write them in binary, you might see patterns that way?
<popey> oh, "Test #8 [Modulo 20, Random pattern]" â»
<popey> yeah, did that â»
<aquarius_live> directhex: so, mounting passing the backup superblock doesn't work. So it's a fsck, I suspect (and possibly that won't help either, if it's honestly scragged, of course). Is it better to let fsck try and fix things, or does that make it worse?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: if you have a big enough disk, you could "dd" the partition to a backup (image) file first
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: that way, whatever fsck does, you have an "original" image
<MartijnVdS> you could even copy the image file and fsck THAT instead
<aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: I do not. Only one disc in this machine, and the main partition takes up very nearly all of it. It's only a 120GB SSD; I can't afford to leave half of it empty.
<popey> ---> PCWorld
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: sure, but maybe you have a 2TB usb disk lying around :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: the partition image would fit on that easily
<aquarius_live> MartijnVdS: ha! It took me ages to find a 1GB usb to put the boot disk on ;)
<aquarius_live> popey: that's the plan, but obviously recovering the data from this disk is 1.8 zillion times easier than from backups.
<aquarius_live> I think my error was suspending it by closing the lid, and then letting it run out of battery. Not that that *should* be an error, mark you, but I shan't do it again.
<aquarius_live> so, do I fsck and say yes to all its questions about fixing stuff?
<popey> i would go and get another disk and recover that way personally
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: you could run it with -y if you don't want to do that manually
<directhex> aquarius_live, i don't think you're going to find a better way to recover your data than what fsck tries to do with it
<aquarius_live> popey: how do I "recover that way"? Not sure how having another disk helps -- how do I get the data off this one?
<aquarius_live> directhex: ah, cool, that's a useful piece of advice. Will do that.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: once you have an image, you can do things like photorec on it
<directhex> maybe ddrescue
<aquarius_live> Certainly another disk sounds like the way (question: how do I know that the problem is the disc and not, say, the controller that it's plugged into?)
<arsen> i hate talk of failing hdds and backups and the like, makes me worry about my data :<
<popey> aquarius_live: get new disk, attach via USB (3?) and use live cd to format it then dd the internal disk to the external disk as an image
<popey> then fsck that image
<MartijnVdS> popey: or even a copy of that image (so you always have the original()
<directhex> aquarius_live, statistically, it's likely the disk not the controller
<aquarius_live> popey: ah, I see now. So I'd need another disc, and an external caddy
<arsen> i wonder how windows7 will handle me dd'ing it onto a SSD.
<aquarius_live> directhex: also useful advice, thank you
<MartijnVdS> arsen: it'll get confused. a lot.
<popey> yeah, just a USB attached 500G jobbie (so you can have two copies plus your data on it)
<directhex> aquarius_live, nowadays discs in usb caddies are often cheaper than the discs on their own
<directhex> especially at pc world prices
<aquarius_live> I have server space, but I don't know if I can dd something direct to a remote thing? can i pipe dd's output into scp or something?
<arsen> netcat \o/
<popey> you can, yes.
<aquarius_live> will take one hell of a while sending 120GB over wireless :)
<popey> indeed
<AlanBell> aquarius_live: you can dd over the network, but you won't regret having a USB caddy and big disk
<AlanBell> I have an SSD in a caddy
<aquarius_live> I have this idea in my head that I have a caddy somewhere.
<MartijnVdS> you can go get those while the dd is doing its thing.. ;)
<popey> ditto, SSD + USB3 = zoomzoomzoom
<aquarius_live> wonder what i did with it?
<popey> so desktop has done a pass of all the RAM, all passed
<arsen> i'd of assumed a caddy would be more backup purposes, or large data store - than SSD sized usage? :o
<popey> depends what you want to use it for
<popey> portable desktop
<AlanBell> arsen: yeah, it just worked out that I had a small ssd, so now have a silent USB drive
<aquarius_live> can fscking make the problem *worse*? That is: if I fsck and say yes to the questions, and it doesn't fix the problem, and I then go and get a second drive and a caddy and copy the partition off, might I have ruined that partition in a way that's now unrecoverable and *wouldn't* have been if I hadn't fscked?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: maybe
<popey> anything which causes you to write to the device can, in theory
<popey> hence why many recommend dding off it _first_
<aquarius_live> I was worried you were going to say taht.
<aquarius_live> the hell with it. Let's try fscking, I think.
<arsen> how critical is this data?
<aquarius_live> the stuff I care about is in Ubuntu One, or in the backups on my server, or is media.
<aquarius_live> (in roughly increasing order of annoyance to recover)
<aquarius_live> wow, loads of fsck errors.
<MartijnVdS> once an SSD goes, it *goes*
<aquarius_live> I do suspect that it running out of battery while suspended has contributed here, since I've never done that before and suddenly I get problems... but it sounds like it's just tickled the hardware into dying
<aquarius_live> big question: do I buy a new SSD, or do I use this as an excuse to buy the new dell xps?
<MartijnVdS> but all caches are flushed before suspending, so running out of battery on suspend just means RAM gets flushed, right?
<popey> ethernet cable with broken tag
<popey> whats the quick/dirty fix which isn't "buy a new cable"?
<MartijnVdS> aquarius_live: I'd use it as an excuse ;)
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.wikihow.com/Crimp-Cat-5
<popey> oh, i have all those bits
 * popey gets them
<popey> duh
<aquarius_live> blimey. there's no way it's coming back from this batch of errors OK.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have a set similar to this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Network-Cable-Tester-Punch/dp/B000X7XW3W/ (in a nice case and everything)
<popey> just found a crimp tool and 50 ends in my garage \o/
<MartijnVdS> "50 ends", not quite a good rapper name
<aquarius_live> well, it mounts now. ext4, apparently :)
<aquarius_live> is it likely to have screwed up grub as well? That is: do I need to do some sort of grub install thing to the now successfully-mountedb drive? Or was grub probably fine before (it got to grub rescue, after all) and just the drive that grub was trying to read was the broken thing?
<aquarius_live> suppose I can just try to reboot and see :)
<aquarius_live> brb, rebooting.
<aquarius__> watching laptop with interest. I suspect it will boot but the boot will fail because half the drve is corrupt
<aquarius__> woah! I have a desktop
<directhex> this is a prime time to get a crashplan subscription
<aquarius__> hm, /tmp is owned by root
<aquarius__> that's not right
<aquarius__> other than that.... we seem to be up
<aquarius__> (er only writable by root that is_
<aquarius__> directhex: I have u1 for stuff and back up to my server, so that's OK, I think --- well, I'm not sure crashplan would be any *more* OK, if you see what I mean
<aquarius> am much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.
<aquarius> am much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.
<aquarius> those smartctl errors don't seem too major; they happened a while ago, and widely separated, and weren't data as such.
<aquarius> so... maybe things are OK ish? Of course, any disc error at all for any reason is basically a big neon sign saying "go and get a new disc".
<dwatkins> smartctl can be misleading, I suggest running a disk checking tool regularly
<aquarius> but it feels at least a little like the thing screwed up when running out of battery while suspended.
<aquarius> rather than that the SSD is hardwarily scragged.
<dwatkins> what kind of filesystem is it, aquarius?
<dwatkins> ah yes, ext4
<dwatkins> so it should have a journal
<aquarius> ext4, it turns out
<aquarius> so maybe I didn't throw a seven; it's double sixes and they're just barred :)
<popey> omg
<popey> i have a bag of rj45 ends which dont fit in rj45 holes
<popey> slightly too big
<dwatkins> sue them!
<mungbean> because they haven't been crimped yet
<dwatkins> obstruction of data
<popey> after crimping
<mungbean> oh
<mungbean> fail
<aquarius> popey, is not clear that they are rj45, then. Surely the very definition of "an rj45 end" is "a thing which fits in an rj45 hole" ;)
<aquarius> weird that such ends would even exist? It's hard to imagine a manufacturing fault that'd cause it... I mean, they must make those by the billion every hour?
<popey> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<popey> so now i have no long cable rather than an unreliable long cable
<AlanBell> so now your mildly annoying loose cable is not a cable
<mungbean> the trials of WFH
 * popey phones the helpdesk
<aquarius> anyway: thank you popey, directhex, MartijnVdS.
 * popey returns from the datacentre with a long cable
<popey> still not sure if desktop is okay or not
<popey> no longer booting "B4"
<popey> eek, mad rain
<mungbean> hail and thunder
<MooDoo> sunny and blue skies here
<ali1234> popey: if the rj45 plugs dont fit it's because you're not crimping them hard enough
<penguin42> and someone in a different window just said Snow - up here in Manchester we have blue skies
<mungbean> or they were produced by moonlighters after the factory closed for the night
<popey> hmm
<ali1234> it's normal for them not to fit properly the first time
<popey> ah okay
<ali1234> you have to squeeze REALLY hard
<mungbean> or get good crimpers
<mungbean> (and good rj45 ends)
<popey> i should probably empty the wasp graveyard http://popey.com/webcam/
<mungbean> grim
<Myrtti> there was hails in Cambs just an hour ago or so
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - just got *really* dark here all of a sudden. Looks like it's about to get really nasty outside...
<popey> ooo thunder
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - I heard that too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<AlanBell> hail, lots of it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Must have been between here and Farnborough then.
<popey> yeah, was quite quiet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mahoosive hail and rain now
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: that a weather term?  mahoosive ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: maybe we can get it into the dictionary and make it the word of the year 2014, that wold be mahoosive.
<DJones> Heh, just listening to a Dr Who episode from the Radio 4 website, very politically incorrect sentance, "I think we should kill it, its not like us, its not British" (set in the early 1960's in Kenya and spoken between to women on finding an injured 'person' in the jungle)
<DJones> s/to/two/
<JohnRobert> nice, it's taken all morning but I have my postfix/dovecot VM setup
<MooDoo> ALL MORNING????!?!
<JohnRobert> yes
<MooDoo> JohnRobert: It would of taken me 6 months lol
<JohnRobert> it has mysql virtual users too
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> I've done it before and I had a good guide to follow
<JohnRobert> first time took a lot longer :p
<JohnRobert> still need to integrate spamassasin
<popey> \o/ DBS
<mungbean> someone remind me what the webmail type of spam queue app is called?
<mungbean> that allows you to quarantine mails between a certain spam score for manual inspectino
<JohnRobert> dunno
<JohnRobert> popey: DBS?
<JohnRobert> do you mean DJB?
<popey> the old CRB checks were renamed to DBS
<JohnRobert> oh god I'm at the wrong talk at #zceu
<JohnRobert> oh right
<JohnRobert> I'm not CRB checked although I could do with getting checked
<popey> mungbean: spamassassin
<popey> DBS is handy because you only do it once
<mungbean> nahm there's a web interface for spamassassin/amavisd
<popey> unlike CRB where each activity needs a check
<mungbean> to reject/approve mails
<JohnRobert> ah right I think I've heard of that
<popey> DBS auto-renews too
<JohnRobert> I insist I'm not a nutter
<mungbean> mailzu
<popey> imgur works quite nicely on ubuntu phone
<mungbean> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailzu/
<mungbean> MailZu is a simple and intuitive web interface to manage Amavisd-new quarantine. Users can view their own quarantine, release/delete messages or request the release of messages. MailZu is written in PHP and requires Amavisd-new version greater than 2.3.0
<JohnRobert> I'm cutting google out of my life
<JohnRobert> starting with gmail
<mungbean> zimbra ftw
<popey> seen ark? JohnRobert
<JohnRobert> no?
<popey> https://arkos.io/
<JohnRobert> I've spent all morning setting up postfix so it best not be better than that :p
<popey> looks quite neat
<popey> runs on a pi
<popey> i tried it out, and it's early but has some promise
<JohnRobert> ah awesome
<mungbean> device-ifying the rpi, nice
<JohnRobert> looks good popey, I will keep an eye on it
<JohnRobert> I have my own DIY ideas in mind though
<JohnRobert> no-ip for my nameservers etc.. heh
<popey> https://twitter.com/MoreFromGroup
<popey> I'd be inclined to report/block for spamming their "humour"
<mungbean> twitter app on my phone crashes if i hit search button then search button again
<popey> nice
<mungbean> bring back tweetdeck
<popey> i use tweetdeck
<JohnRobert> ubuntu phone...what's that like then?
<popey> JohnRobert: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/gallery.php like that
<mungbean> tweetdeck on phone not allowed due to twitter 3rd party fail
<JohnRobert> seems kinda cool
<JohnRobert> also I have a nexus4
<popey> tweetdeck isnt 3rd party
<JohnRobert> wow that's a lot of screen shots
<popey> i use https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/ on my desktop
<popey> yeah, i upload every screenshot I take
<JohnRobert> has all the rough edges I'd expect
<JohnRobert> :p
<JohnRobert> what's battery life like?
<dwatkins> I just wrote down a telephone number instead of copying and pasting it, and it's now not in my copy buffer.
<SuperMatt> well great. I've got to make a descision. UDS or an interview for a job I'm already iffy about applying for
<dwatkins> #FirstWorldProblems...
<mungbean> Twitter has officially pulled the plug on TweetDeck for Android and iPhone, as well as the Adobe AIR desktop version, with the retirement of its API v1.
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: I think we've both got first world problems
<mungbean> ah ok , not 3rd party, but still not worky anymore
<popey> JohnRobert: much the same as android
<JohnRobert> cool
<bigcalm> How does one scroll though screen?
<JohnRobert> I use things like navigation on my nexus
<JohnRobert> I guess that's not an option on ubuntuphone
<penguin42> bigcalm: With difficulty - you've got to flip into the right mode
<bigcalm> penguin42: which I haven't managed yet :(
<penguin42> bigcalm: ctrl-a, ctrl-[, then u/d for up down
<MartijnVdS> Ctrl+A ESC works as well to get into the mode, and pgup+down also work once you're in it
<bigcalm> Thanks both :)
<JohnRobert> Behat looks good
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: use tmux (and byobu), much easier ;)
 * penguin42 is sure there is some setting that tells you the state of it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: of what?
<bigcalm> ctrl a esc page up/down
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: On some screen setups it displays a status bar telling you when you go into that mode
<bigcalm> That did it for me :)
<Constaaa> hello ? anybody here ?
<MooDoo> not me, i'm away with the fairies ;)
<Constaaa> i love fairys. there always here :/
<Constaaa> so im kind of new to ubuntu.. anybody got any cool apps to recommend  ? decent chat clients ect ect ?
<MooDoo> well it depends on what you want to do?   x-chat for a client, although I use a command line version
<brobostigon> irssi :D
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes that's the one.
<brobostigon> :)
<Constaaa> yeah fair enough! man i love ubuntu! anybody like linux mint ? that shit looks gooood! :D and whats irssi ?
<brobostigon> byobu + irssi + bitlbee :)
<MooDoo> Constaaa: irssi is a command line based irc client, and just watch your language :)
<brobostigon> irssi is a command line irc client.
<Constaaa> ah wicked, im using xchat IRC, so is this server in the uk ?
<brobostigon>  /whois will tell you.
<Myrtti> the location of the server is quite irrelevant
<Myrtti> we're not sniping enemies in Halflife, even if the ping was a few seconds you wouldn't die
<Constaaa> no i dont mean the location, i just mean is everybody in this chat in england ? or is it world wide
<Myrtti> mostly UK, but around the world
 * AlanBell is in Surrey
<MartijnVdS> most people have *some* connection to the UK though
<MartijnVdS> (most ;))
 * brobostigon is on the enterpride-d 
<Constaaa> ah right awesome!!! i love the ubuntu community, its so much nicer than the windows/mac
<brobostigon> enterprise*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Enterpride? Is that during the parade? ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, the gay pride perade on enterprise.
<MooDoo> I'd love to know where I am, if only they'd let me out this box.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I mean there *are* a lot of men on that starship.. serving together..
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: very true.
<MartijnVdS>  SchrÃ¶dinger's MooDoo ?
<awilkins> I always like the cosmopolitan federation attitude to crew relations
<Myrtti> you guise
<Myrtti> you scared him away
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "Like, totes whatevs!"
<Constaaa> who here listens to metal?! or am i the only one :/
 * brobostigon likes his prog-rock
<MooDoo> Constaaa: i prefer copper or tin ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: those are metals
<Constaaa> im more of a rhodium kinda guy.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: copper even qualifies as a heavy metal sometimes 8-)
 * awilkins prefers semiconductors
 * brobostigon bombards awilkins with silicon bombs
 * MartijnVdS dopes awilkins
<MooDoo> Constaaa: as you can see it can be quite serious in here at times ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: don't scare him!
<brobostigon> keith floyd on bbc2, a good laugh.
 * awilkins enjoys the band gap
<Constaaa> what seriously cool stuff can i do on my ubuntu desktop?! like things that will blow my mind. ive had it for ages, but only used it for emails and what have you !
<Constaaa> keith floyd <3
<awilkins> I always like multiple workspaces
<MooDoo> Constaaa: you need to define cool, what you want to do on your computer?  play games, edit pphotos, make music,
<MooDoo> sticking your fingers in sockets will blow your mind ;)
<brobostigon> 3d modelling ?
 * awilkins programs in Java and plays the occasional game
<awilkins> Lots of text-processing
<Constaaa> make music, im currently recording an acoustic and i need a good hearty program to use. and well ive tried the socket..
<MooDoo> brobostigon: blender ftw!
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: poor you. At least I get to use Perl for the text processing ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yep :)
<brobostigon> tab fail, :(
<awilkins> Running apps that work on Windows too like Dia, Freemind, etc, is always fun as well
<awilkins> Having a four-monitor setup with Windows on the left two on one machine and Ubuntu on the right two with seamless keyboard / mouse integration is fun
<brobostigon> blender also has a good video editor, :)
<directhex> know what else is fun?
<directhex> tetris
<brobostigon> quake :)
<Constaaa> doom.
<MartijnVdS> the bits of Steam that work on Ubuntu!
<brobostigon> minetest ?
<awilkins> Steam / Ubuntu is a TERRIBLE idea... I do all my productive work on Ubuntu...
<MartijnVdS> self-discipline man :)
<awilkins> I'm doing OK, installed TF2 and a few other things but seem to resist
<MartijnVdS> TF2 is only fun if you have people of your own skill to play it with
<Constaaa> is tf2 free now ?
<MartijnVdS> but most people who play it do it all day.. making it not fun
<MartijnVdS> Constaaa: it's free to play, you can get upgrades for it by buying/playing other games I think
<Constaaa> ah right, where do i get it ?
<Constaaa> i miss that game :/
<MartijnVdS> Constaaa: install steam, then install tf2 from there
<Constaaa> I LOVE YOU ALL.
<bigcalm> Anybody know where the init.d example script it kept?
<directhex> /etc/init.d/skel ?
<bigcalm> directhex: aha, yes (skeleton on debian)
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<Constaaa> lsxe much smoother! D:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZtInClXe1Q
<bashrc> anyone ever heard of wandboard?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: sounds kinky
<bashrc> it's just another SBC
<bashrc> am wondering what to use as a next generation server
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds like something from Hogwarts
<Myrtti> I was going to say
<penguin42> bashrc: Yeh quite a nice one from the specs I saw of it
<penguin42> bashrc: I think there were some limits on the max bandwidth of the ethernet somewhere though - but other than that it was ok
<bashrc> I think it might be open hardware
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone used a wacom type tablet with Ubuntu? Work OK?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son wants one for Christmas...
<bigcalm> I have a python script that I need to call as a daemon from init. Is it the init.d script that makes it become a daemon, or does the python script have to be written to be a daemon?
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: on and off for years
<Myrtti> TheOpenSourcerer: they seem to work ok
<Myrtti> I think even gimp might be good nowadays too
<MartijnVdS> in single window mode it's great
<Myrtti> there was a good few years when gimp and wacom didn't play nice at all
<Myrtti> in comparison to, say Photoshop 6
<Myrtti> good ten years ago that was
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - not much recent complaints on G so I guess "it just works"?
<Myrtti> for the most part yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've never even seen one I think, so what's the craic? Do they have USB connectors for tablet & pen or just the tablet?
<Laney> I think the pen usually has batteries
<MartijnVdS> no, it's inductive
<MartijnVdS> pen is just a bunch of coils
<MartijnVdS> with probably some id codes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that link is broken
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet/dp/B005TYVS4Y
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just a single usb by the sounds of it
<TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcer: Got a basic Wacom..works fine. From memory I had to add a Wacom doofer from the repos, mostly so I could configure actions for all the buttons
<TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcerer: Mine is a CTE-440.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
<mungbean> today is a 2 packets of crisps kind of day
<directhex> monster munch!
<TwistedLucidity> TheOpenSourcerer: Yup, Graphics Tablet Settings. To be honest, it worked straight away. The settings thing just makes configuration easier.
<penguin42> mungbean: Unfortunately I haven't found any of these yet http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2013/11/taste-testing-lays-new-chocolate-dipped-potato-chips/
<Constaaa> yo people !! add me on steam! cuddlemonstaaa
<dwatkins> yet another Raspberry Pi, or a genius way of presenting the mini computer for kids? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-anyone-can-make
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: yeah I read about this one yesterday. Not sure the box and a few bits is worth it though.
<AlanBell> dwatkins: it *is* a raspberry pi, just a pretty box to go with it
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have the "software" apparently, looks like scratch but creates "proper code". Couldn;t find it anywhere so guess that is what the project is there to fund...
<dwatkins> yeah, their distro looks (from the initial desktop screenshot) like it's been made a little more child-friendly, and the case has a built-in speaker, which is a nice idea. The flat cables are pretty neat, and it's all in one box, like the Maplin kit but not as annoying ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://code.google.com/p/blockly/
<SuperMatt> ok, so if someone were to produce a home server remix, what features would it have installed by default? These are what I have so far:
<SuperMatt> https://wiki.supermatt.net/Ubuntu_Home_Server_Remix
<SuperMatt> This follows on from one of the questions posed to Mark during the keynote
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Hmm I don't know all the packages, so I'd list features - e.g. does that include DLNA server?
<neuro> sod mediatomb
<neuro> plex media server ftw :)
<penguin42> SuperMatt: I'd also add print server, backup mechanism of some type
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?
<neuro> yeah, cupsd would be nice
<directhex> mediatomb is the most customisable dlna server i've used
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have rygel running at home. My TV and tablets all find it OK.
<directhex> i.e. you can modify the XML it sends, for slightly nonstandard devices
<directhex> which is most of them IME
<directhex> a ps3 won't accept the same XML as a samsung TV, for example
<neuro> yeah, but it looks *awful*
<directhex> and a samsung TV will play .mkv, as long as you fake the MIME type it sends as MPEG2
<neuro> compare this: http://i1-linux.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/MediaTomb_1.jpg
<neuro> to this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kjse7wo5ci3nhd/Screenshot%202013-11-20%2016.42.09.png
<SuperMatt> I've added cups and plex to the list ;)
<SuperMatt> is plex in the repos?
<neuro> sadly, no
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...ownCloud...that would save me the grief of arguing with mod_security et al myself.....
<neuro> their own ubuntu repo stopped working a while back
<neuro> and sadly, it's not open source
<SuperMatt> ah, you can't make an official remix if you want to include something which isn't in repos
<neuro> but it's *lovely*
<SuperMatt> ah
<SuperMatt> then it would have to be mediatomb, I'm afraid
<TheOpenSourcerer> (16:39:58) TheOpenSourcerer: SuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?
<neuro> bleh
<SuperMatt> I have not
<directhex> mediatomb looks like arse, but it works
<directhex> not much use having a nice server but the n your TV just shows a spinning cursor forever
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://wiki.gnome.org/Rygel
<TwistedLucidity> Would you be using the web front-end much? Surely XBMC or summat would back on to it?
<neuro> why would your TV show a spinning cursor forever?
<SuperMatt> anyway
<SuperMatt> any other features you'd want on a home server remix?
<neuro> if we're wishlisting, some sort of magic interface to rsnapshot
<directhex> neuro, because it's randomly not working, because DLNA is horrible
<SuperMatt> it's just a remix right now, so it can only be things in the repos
<neuro> directhex: you've had problems with plex?
<directhex> neuro, iirc plex is a transcoding server, i definitely don't want that
<neuro> it only transcodes to dlna targets that it knows won't accept the codec(s) it's sending
<neuro> it'll direct play where possible
<neuro> we appear to have derailed the conversation ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you based it on Zentyal you'd have file/print/samba/email/IM and plenty more. Just add your dlna server of choice :-)
<bigcalm> Time to order a 256ishGB SSD for my wife's laptop. Any recomendations?
<daftykins> bigcalm: check out the Samsung 840 Pro and 840 EVO, emphasis on the former
<bigcalm> daftykins: ta
<daftykins> i've dealt with several, they've definitely been the top performer for a while
<bigcalm> Any others? aquarius? ;)
<bigcalm> daftykins: I've only used OCZ so far
<aquarius> don't know about ssd makes :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: which one died on you? I want to avoid it :P
<daftykins> anything sandforce controller based you want to avoid, ideally
<daftykins> and i'd also advise to stay away from TLC NAND chips too (triple level cell) vs. MLC drives
<directhex> SLC!
<directhex> note: costs all the money
<daftykins> yeah i thought i'd restrict things to sane suggestions :D
<directhex> bigcalm, i think most major production teething issues are gone, so most consumer SSDs have similar behaviour patterns in all scenarios...
 * daftykins whacks directhex with a rolled up newspaper
<directhex> bigcalm, so i'd highlight things like "warranty terms" and "availability of firmware etc tools" as selection criteria
<bigcalm> Interesting
<directhex> bigcalm, avoiding sandforce is hard as they run most of the market. basically the only drives without sandforce controllers are OCZ and Samsung
<daftykins> not true, there's still a lot of variation to be had with performance over time
<daftykins> but yeah i agree with looking at warranty, Samsung give 3yrs on the drives i mentioned
<daftykins> which is nice
<directhex> bigcalm, sandforce controllers were implicated in early major failure rates, mostly on OCZ drives. the biggest determining factor with sandforce controllers is the firmware implementation
<directhex> which is why one sandforce with the same memory might be twice the speed as another
<directhex> samsung have their own controller. ocz use indilinx.
<aquarius> mine's a JMicron, if I remember correctly from this morning
<directhex> i have two SSDs at home, both near-identical sandforce 240G drives
<directhex> a kingston and a sandisk
<directhex> sandforce performance is tied very tightly to two things - how compressible the data is, and whether you have >50% free space
<daftykins> bigcalm: if you'd like reliability over say, the top performance to be had, Micron/Crucial's offerings are quite nice too: http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmodule/SSD/~245760~~M500~/list.html
<daftykins> but yeah the Samsung 840 Pro definitely bests it
<directhex> crucial M4 had major firmware issues though. everyone can give FW issues
<directhex> even intel
<daftykins> sure, but not things that threatened the data
<daftykins> i had a client with a buggy m4 that BSOD'd his Windows install every 1hr after boot - i was in Australia for a wedding at the time :)
<daftykins> phoned up a friend to pop in with a firmware update CD - all fixed in seconds
<directhex> aquarius, jmicron were a big player around 2008-2010, have faded into obscurity on the ssd controller front
<daftykins> i only really know of them as the provider of nasty legacy PATA controllers :D
<directhex> yeah, that's the  main reason most users have interacted with jmicron - they make IDE controllers which are used to provide IDE ports on modern motherboards
<directhex> or did. it's a while since i checked
<daftykins> that additional POST time always made me a sad panda
<daftykins> (my server runs an old PATA optical still)
<penguin42> yeh it's when it all went PCIe they seemed to be the ones used
<aquarius> directhex, yeah, I believe that; my laptop was bought in Nov 2011, but Lenovo using a fading player is not surprising :)
<bigcalm> Likely to buy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY - looking for a cheaper vendor though
<directhex> aquarius, nowadays they use Intel SSDs with custom, broken firmware that crashes linux
<directhex> aquarius, i buy my thinkpads with spinning rust, and a samsung ssd separately...
<penguin42> bigcalm: Scan are more expensive http://www.scan.co.uk/products/256gb-samsung-840-pro-series-basic-25-ssd-7mm-3-core-mdx-21nm-toggle-nand-read-540mb-s-write-520mb-s
<bigcalm> penguin42: that's the oposite of what I asked ;)
<daftykins> lol
<directhex>  http://www.getinvisiblehand.com/
<daftykins> wat
<bigcalm> directhex: aha, I used to use that long ago
 * bigcalm installs
<bigcalm> I think I uninstalled it when I was working on a shopping scope with popey *grumbles*
<daftykins> wow the SSD prices seem to have gone up a touch
<daftykins> i wonder what's happening to NAND
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Invisible Hand says that Amazon's Â£161 is the best price. Which is a lie
<directhex> bigcalm, of the retailers it searches, who is cheaper?
<bigcalm> directhex: amazon
<directhex> link?
<bigcalm> I put the drive into google shopping. Some results say Samsung SSD 840 Pro Series 250 GB. Likely to be the same drive?
<bigcalm> directhex: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah, you said that was a lie. who is cheaper?
<bigcalm> directhex: sorry, I meant that in jest. I know it only searches a sub set of all shops out there
<daftykins> bigcalm: the non Pro is 250GB so nah, best check closely
<bigcalm> Ooo, hadn't noticed the lack of 'pro'
<bigcalm> Yep, looks like Amazon is the best
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<penguin42> heck, AMD are selling an x86 clocked at 4.7GHz with a TDP of 220W
<penguin42> (for a reasonable price)
<directhex> ._.
<penguin42> hth do you cool that?
<daftykins> bigcalm: what kind of system is it going in?
<bigcalm> daftykins: laptop
<daftykins> bigcalm: ubuntu?
<bigcalm> daftykins: windows 7
<daftykins> good stuff, it'll love that :)
<directhex> *cough*
<directhex> actually, never mind
<directhex> samsung SSDs are 7mm
<bigcalm> These drives are for my wife and father (2 different people). Neither of which have any interest in using anything other than Windows
<daftykins> bigcalm: hope this isn't patronising, but be sure to install from win7 SP1 media - it supports partitioning properly on SSDs to '4KB align' them for better performance
<bigcalm> daftykins: do, I didn't know that
<bigcalm> daftykins: it's whatever I get from Microsoft Partner thingy
<daftykins> i have some links to legit win7 media from digital river if you'll be in need of images to install
<daftykins> ah ok
<bigcalm> I don't know if it comes with SP1 by default
<directhex> win7 isos you can just download from MS
<bigcalm> I have access to Windows 7 Professional for Partners and Ultimate for Partners
<daftykins> you can delete one file from ultimate and turn it into an install-all-flavours image :D
<bigcalm> Haha
<daftykins> great for dealing with peoples systems that've gone wrong
<directhex> daftykins, as long as you remaster it as a UEFI install image
<directhex> for great justice
<daftykins> depends on the target system but yes :)
<bigcalm> Odd, the licence page doesn't tell me how many licences we get for windows 7
<daftykins> my pet peeve: reinstalling systems where the clients' certificate of authenticity sticker (COA, containing the license key) has rubbed off XD
<bigcalm> Best place for it is under the battery
<directhex> daftykins, modern systems have a license key burned into the firmware, not on a COA
<bigcalm> (on a laptop)
<daftykins> directhex: i know, for w8
<daftykins> directhex: i do this for a living don't you know :D
<daftykins> bigcalm: agreed
<daftykins> leaving them in the open for others to copy down is so daft
<directhex> daftykins, do you know how to extract the key as a proper 25 digit install key, from inside ubuntu?
<daftykins> no sir
<directhex> sudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM
<directhex> last 29 characters of that
<daftykins> ooh i shall have to save that in my notes, ty
<directhex> sudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM | tail -c 29
<directhex> should just print it readably
<directhex> on windows there's a tool i've used called something like magical jelly bean?
<directhex> but if you installed windows with a different key it won
<directhex> won't report the firmware key
<daftykins> yep - though that's likely to give you a manufacturer key if factory installed 8 ones use a master key rather tha the individual
<daftykins> *than
<daftykins> i like that prog for rescuing peoples MS Office keys :)
<directhex> also, win8.1 installer refuses win8 key
<directhex> ARGH
<daftykins> actually... :) i've gotten around that
<MartijnVdS> directhex: well because you should UPGRADE to it 8-)
<daftykins> everyone knows that installing what is ultimately a Service Pack after the OS is infinitely inferior to having slipstreamed media
<daftykins> directhex: there are guides online for how to use the 8 and 8.1 download programs to grab an 8.1 ISO, then with a little trickery you can make it install without needing a key entered - by the first boot it asks for you to enter a key again, at which time an 8.1 key is accepted \o/
 * bigcalm plays lego marvel super heros while the oven heats up
<bigcalm> Ah, the good life :)
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> http://doctorbeet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html
<penguin42> (via BBC news)
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to tcpdump my Samsung one as well
<daftykins> i think i saw that advertised on the Xbox dashboard
<daftykins> penguin42: i like his test filename
<penguin42> yes
<penguin42> daftykins: I like that the BBC used that on their page about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25018225
<daftykins> X|
<daftykins> see if i was reporting something major, i'd keep my examples family friendly
<penguin42> you would?
<daftykins> yep
<MartijnVdS> Someone tell Jono: ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9sHIQaFVC8
<penguin42> daftykins: So you'd just stick to dawrf tossing?
<directhex> :o winamp is being killed off!
<daftykins> WHAT!?
<daftykins> but it's the best :(
<directhex> "Winamp.com and associated web services will no longer be available past December 20, 2013. Additionally, Winamp Media players will no longer be available for download."
<daftykins> penguin42: oh, naturally :)
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> i'm going to have to start stashing installers everywhere
<daftykins> that is seriously sucky news
<daftykins> directhex: where's this?
<directhex> http://www.winamp.com/media-player/en
<MartijnVdS> I remember running one of the first versions, from the 90s
<directhex> do you remember it really whipping the llama's ass?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: of course!
<daftykins> i can see a " /> top left
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I remember my CPU being too slow to decode MP3s realtime :)
<MartijnVdS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Winamp1.006.PNG that one!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> trying to remember if my Pentium 1 120MHz struggled or not
<daftykins> it was probably fine
<MartijnVdS> yeah pentiums were fine
<MartijnVdS> 486-33, not so much
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> seriously though, winamp :'(
<MartijnVdS> does xmms still exist?
<daftykins> it hasn't been touched since like, the year dot.
<MartijnVdS> xmms2 exists as well
<MartijnVdS> but I have no idea what it cando
<daftykins> probably not much
<ali1234> pentium 133 struggled with mp3 - it would use like 85% CPU, so on windows it skipped a lot
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, but my 233MMX was fine
<daftykins> guess it depended on bitrate
<daftykins> i still remember a friend giving me my first mp3, zipped across 3+ floppies to get it over :(
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: my brother had a friend who had a CD burner and cable internet (128 kilobits/second!)
<daftykins> directhex: my friend is doing a PhD in Physics at Brighton Uni, he's looking at trying to get them to purchase a system with decent storage as he's dealing with hundreds of gigabytes daily. do you think you could provide some advice on a sensible Linux server to obtain? :D
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: wowzer :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, he lived in a huge house as well. Rich parents.
<daftykins> i still kinda giggle at my friends that had ISDN
<daftykins> such little benefit XD
<MartijnVdS> I had ISDN, the benefit was that my mother picking up the phone didn't kill my downloads :)
<daftykins> true
<daftykins> i had my own line and AOL unmetered 56k :'(
<MartijnVdS> using the dual-line 128kbit was also twice as expensive
<daftykins> yeah i remember seeing individual pricing
<dwatkins> I'm glad to have fibre-to-the-cabinet, although bitcasa have just upped their price for unlimited storage from $99 a year to $999 a year O.O
<dwatkins> For that price, I might as well buy a new Synology every 18 months.
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> that's a slight increase!
<dwatkins> yeah, I wouldn't mind, but the amount of data I'll have on their servers is a tier or so above the new $99 price mark (1 TB for that much, I have at least 2 TB).
<kevin-laptop> Just got my brother in law a new laptop and yes it has windows 8 on it. Going to nuke it but just wanted to check if anybody had any experience with HP not allowing you to claim on the warranty if Linux is installed?
<dwatkins> I thought that was PC World, kevin-laptop.
<MartijnVdS> kevin-laptop: On my Dell, I had the option to create a "rescue USB stick", which I can use to get Windows back if necessary
<dwatkins> There was a famous case of the hinge being broken and some company refusing to support it because the user had installed linux.
<kevin-laptop> Ahhh ok
<kevin-laptop> Well I would make the rescue stick
<kevin-laptop> But ...
<kevin-laptop> I don't want to rescue Windows 8 ... ever
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not allowed anymore in Europe
<dwatkins> Also, it might be worth resizing the Windows partition (Assuming that's still possible with Windows 8) in case it's still needed, or at least dual-booting it during install.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: good
<daftykins> kevin-laptop: it's always good to provide it for others regardless :) now is the time, after all.
<daftykins> if you don't, you're stopping someone else from having the choice down the line
<daftykins> for even potential resale
<kevin-laptop> Hhmmmm I'll see how much space it wants for it's recovery feature then
<MartijnVdS> kevin-laptop: mine needed 10GB USB stick, which can't be used for anything else
<dwatkins> at very least, I'd make sure the Windows 8 serial number and install media are easily available.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: OEM Win8 doesn't come with install media
<kevin-laptop> No serial number on the bottom :(
<MartijnVdS> Serial is in the firmware somewhere
<dwatkins> oh, I had the option of paying extra for a Win8 DVD.
<kevin-laptop> He will never use the windows 8 on it at the moment
<kevin-laptop> As long as I can claim on warranty then I'll nuke it
<dwatkins> It's probably got loads of unnecessary bloat too.
<dwatkins> [aside from Windows, of course]
<daftykins> kevin-laptop: nah 8 licenses are in the BIOS now
<daftykins> (the key)
<kevin-laptop> Ahhh ok
<kevin-laptop> I assume they're only in the UEFI BIOS?
<daftykins> kevin-laptop: handily, directhex told me how to dump the key from the BIOS just earlier :D
<daftykins> (with Linux)
<kevin-laptop> Oh :)
<daftykins> you may be able to use that key to download the ISO from Microsoft too
<daftykins> so you may not even have to worry about making restore media
<kevin-laptop> It's funny how many laptops I've had to remove Windows 8 from for clients
<kevin-laptop> Nobody wants it
<ali1234> yet they pay for it anyway
<kevin-laptop> Indirectly ;)
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> although you can just install classicshell.net
<daftykins> give them that 7 experience on 8
<MartijnVdS> classics-hell
<kevin-laptop> Yeah
<kevin-laptop> Have a few doing that
<kevin-laptop> I run Windows 8 solely for Battlefield 4
<dwatkins> I have start8, works well enough considering I paid ÃÂ£25 for Windows 8 to play games on.
<MartijnVdS> I have Win8 on a touch-screen laptop, dual-booting with Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> and using the touch screen, Win8 isn't too bad once you have 8.1
<kevin-laptop> Haha
<kevin-laptop> It does look very touch optimised
<daftykins> i got the cheap upgrade 8 but i've yet to use it
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> only 8 Pro can be 'downgraded' to 7 legally
<dwatkins> I miss NT 3.51.
<daftykins> heh
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-21
<diddledan> there we go
 * diddledan getting used to irssi
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> where've you been sir?
<diddledan> I rebooted into somewhere that didn't have irc :-p
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> so now I'm working on getting ssh-able irssi
<daftykins> now now, such places don't exist!
<diddledan> hehe
<dwatkins> ssh host -t 'screen -dr'
<dwatkins> sorted
<diddledan> wheee
<diddledan> ahem, I mean.. oh dammit, too much excitement for 2am in the morning o'clock
<daftykins> on a school night too :(
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> what's future diddledan going to say?!
<diddledan> probably find he'll be snoring
<daftykins> ja but future future diddledan will be hammering an alarm clock into the wall whispering obscenities
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so if anyone's around: what package do I file this bug against?: in saucy solliloquy (13.10) apache2 can't seem to tell the difference between a file and a folder when serving a site off an HFS+ filesystem. (http://paste.ubuntu.com/6451364/ you'll note it's looking for .htaccess files as children of images.) so the problem could be with the hfs+ kernel module or it could be with apache (at this juncture). a similar story is found here: http://sv
<diddledan> did any of that get cut off? (it finished with the word "behaviour")
<daftykins> yeah "...http://sv"
<diddledan>  http://svn.haxx.se/users/archive-2010-05/0308.shtml which suggests that the problem may lie in shared code between svn and apache (namely the APR library).
<diddledan>                    or it really is the kernel module. I'm flummoxed and surprised very few references exist about similar behaviour
<diddledan> 02:17 < diddledan> did any of that get cut off? (it finished with the word "behaviour")
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> that was evil, sorry me
<diddledan> I guess nobody uses HFS+ shared filesystems
<diddledan> which surprises me because it's the only one that can be shared between osx and linux without losing UNIXy things like symlinks
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you lose the journal if you write to it from linux
<diddledan> ali1234: I'm prepared to sacrifice the journaling
<ali1234> and that kind of indicates the code quality isn't great
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> so what would work better for shared filesystem between osx and linux which allows me to retain UNIX permissions and symlink capability?
<ali1234> nothing
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> hence why I'm doing it this way
<ali1234> just stop using osx
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> yeah. that
<ali1234> it's not like it has any software you can't run on windows
<diddledan> I need OSX about for iOS packaging
<ali1234> well there's that i suppose
<ali1234> stop using iOS also?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> alright Stallman, get off ali1234's computer and give it back to him
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> i was just about to recommend a nice android phone
<diddledan> wow, andoird is pushing it beyond stallman's comfort zone
<diddledan> think of all those binary blobs
<ali1234> you can't have a phone without binary blobs. it is impossible
<diddledan> that won't stop stallman moaning about it
<ali1234> even if you made one totally from scratch, it would infringe thousands of patents
<daftykins> my Nexus 4 is really proving that android goes like Windows XP, which is what directhex said
<daftykins> it's only playing the sounds to notifications for one particular program intermittently now i swear
<ali1234> if by that you mean "it's really fast when you remove all the OEM shovelware" then i agree
<daftykins> once the 4.4 update comes out i may have to factory reset it
<daftykins> me? nah the Nexus 4 comes without any crap
<ali1234> exactly
<diddledan> I can't believe the galaxynexus has been abandoned in terms of software
<diddledan> it's only a year and a bit old
<daftykins> ali1234: more that performance degrades over time
<ali1234> (over 2 years)
<ali1234> it was discontinued over a year ago
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> my laptop didn't run out of battery today \o/
<MartijnVdS> well last night
<MooDoo> yay
<MartijnVdS> time to boil some water
<directhex> <diddledan> 02:30:07> I can't believe the galaxynexus has been abandoned in terms of software <- believe it. only apple supports users long enough to fulfil a 24 month contract
<popey> Morning
<popey> directhex: what does ms do with wp?
<directhex> popey, wp7 owners were shafted by wp8
<Myrtti> I just slapped CM on my Galaxy Nexus (as Ubuntu Touch seemed to be a bit useless for me) and it's marvelous
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is really funny. Microsoft is suing a Patent Troll, who it licensed some patents to, who then sued it for patent infringement: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/11/microsoft-sues-patent-troll-saying-it-broke-contract-to-license-mobile-tech/
<MooDoo> i love CM :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only winners? Lawyers...
<Myrtti> why haven't I heard of BountySource before? shocking
<directhex> not all WP7 devices got 7.5, not all 7.5 devices got 7.8
<directhex> basically a disasterpiece
<directhex> CM is a band-aid, and a mediocre one
<directhex> e.g. wife's HTC Sensation with CM, the camera failed to record video, and screen flicker meant daily reboots
<popey> and are updates to windows phone delivered by ms like apple deliver ios updates?
<popey> or is it in collaboration with handset maker(s)
 * popey considers an egg-based breakfast
<Myrtti> I'm not sure should I venture to make tea
<Myrtti> not 100% certain the milk is ok
<jussi> if it doesnt have clumps, its fine :P :P
<directhex> popey, handset makers, sadly
<popey> be interesting to see how jolla does
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes! http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jul2012/UltimateManwich.htm
<popey> http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/11226/sticky-belly-pork looks like lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> And there's me on a 500cal day.
<popey> that does look good
<MooDoo> 500cal?  wow
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: For me it's actually rather easy.
<MartijnVdS> just don't eat?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't really feel that hungry
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Until tonight yes.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm always hungry and need about 2K a day :S
<TheOpenSourcerer> I might have an apple at lunch or something perhaps.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: That much aluminium and silicon in your diet can't be good
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's supposed to be extremely good for you
<popey> ooh, i need to get that pork in now if it's going to be ready for lunch
<directhex> i'm ravenous
<MartijnVdS> directhex: are you from Traal?
<directhex> yes
<popey> nomnomnom
<popey> pork â  oven
<popey> http://imgur.com/WPlbspy,I3s6jfZ,puUutCd,70r51U3,OIoteiR
<popey> muhahahah
<jussi> popey: NOM
<MartijnVdS> popey: you must hate working from home
<popey> hah
<popey> wifey works half day today so i thought I'd have something nommy for lunch ready when she gets in
<Myrtti> you know
<Myrtti> that actually looks disgusting.
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: heathen! :)
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I know, I'm shocked by this feeling myself
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have some friends over for dinner tomorrow night. I will be making a goats cheese and seared lettuce tower on toast as a starter, followed by chicken en papillote, hassleback potatoes and bundles of green beans.
<Myrtti> hasslebacks â¥
<popey> oooh good call
<popey> my kids love hasslebacks, will do them at the weekend
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> i appear to be the only person in this house who eats the crusts
<popey> I'd happily buy a loaf of bread which was just crusts, no middle slices
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd like to hold the bean bundles together not with bacon but with something vegetarian, was thinking about either wrapping in a strip of cavalo nero, or perhaps, making a "disk" of something with a hole through the middle to hold the beans together? Like a large tomato, or something similar... I don't think the tomato will hold up in the oven somehow...
<popey> something soaked/wilted and fashioned into a string?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Spinach?
<popey> spring onion?
<popey> http://apassionateplate.com/green-bean-bundles-with-bacon-balsamic-glaze/
<popey> spinach would taste nicer
<popey> s/popey/popeye/
<TheOpenSourcerer> That might work actually, I could imagine rolling a bunch of wilted spinach into a long thin string-like thing
<MartijnVdS> spaghetti 8-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, that's not bad popey. Thanks.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: nori?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: That kind of thing did cross my mind actually ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - bigcalm That's a good bloody idea.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've sheets of the stuff.
<bigcalm> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Does it soften in water?
<bigcalm> Yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think that might work really well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will do a quick test this evening... :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Green beans, boiled, blanched & drained, bundled (wrap with either wilted spring onion or strips of nori), then finished in the oven for 10 mins with a garlic, herb & olive oil dressing"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nom
<popey> does sound nom
<diplo> You guys are making me hungry!
<diplo> Morning all btw :)
<mungbean> i got a popping cando freddo this morning
<mungbean> and i have this tune stuck in my head
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghTrcPBp3s
 * DJones thinks he won't click on the link so he doesn't get a tune stuck in his head
<mungbean> dooo ittt
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Use Less Stuff Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> | less
<JamesTait> No, no.
<JamesTait> less stuff
<Laney> stuff: No such file or directory
<DJones> ..Use less stuff, hmmh, just received a delivery of 'stuff' from the office supplies depot, decides to use the stuff anyway
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<JamesTait> Last night I discovered that I had a 26-core ribbon cable lying around.  "Ah!", I thought to myself, "I know what I could connect that to!"
<JamesTait> And so I ended up spending the evening playing with the Raspberry Pi and a bunch of LEDs connected to the GPIO connector.
<GentileBen> I hope this is going somewhere JamesTait.
<GentileBen> Otherwise I'll have to destroy you.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: funky :)
<JamesTait> And it reminded me of the indiegogo campaign, and that I really ought to chip in.
<GentileBen> RPi is a slippery slope.
<GentileBen> I ended up wanting one of those Haswell NUC boxes.
<GentileBen> They're like the size of a cigarette box but fully featured x86 PCs.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Allow me to direct you: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> JamesTait: ^--^
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: bigcalm This is the kind of effect I'm after but with green beans. Think Nori will work really well. Thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/images/carrot-bundles.jpg
<bigcalm> \o/
<DJones> We should have a !picluster factoid "Alan Bell is involved in a kickstarter campaign to link multiple Rasberry Pi's in a cluster to build Ubuntu for the Pi, closely followed by the installation and sentience of Skynet"
<MartijnVdS> indiegogo*
<DJones> Go spot
<DJones> good
<deersi> hi, Can anyone help in connecting a 3.5G iBall USB modem on Ubuntu 13.04. Iv'e installed usb-modeswitch and Sakis3G but Sakis fails to switch the modem.
<AlanBell> deersi: sakis is a bundle of horrificness :)
<AlanBell> deersi: can you do lsusb in a terminal and paste here *just* the line that looks like a modem
<AlanBell> if you can't see one that is obvious, remove the modem, lsusb again and see which line comes and goes as you pop the modem in and out
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer, my old friend.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 'sup GentileBen
 * popey can smell lunch cooking slowly
 * DJones wonders how to file a bug against the NHS Prescription Prepayment application website, "Enter account holders name, ok joint account "Me & Her" Error Can't have anything punctuation apart from . or ,
<deersi> hi, Can anyone help in connecting a 3.5G iBall USB modem on Ubuntu 13.04. Iv'e installed usb-modeswitch and Sakis3G but Sakis fails to switch the modem.
<MartijnVdS> deersi: AlanBell just gave a few directions
<DJones> 10:28 < AlanBell> if you can't see one that is obvious, remove the modem, lsusb again and see which line comes and goes as you pop the modem in and out
<neuro> wheeeee
<MartijnVdS> neuro: please, no weeing in the channel
<DJones> deersi: As above (you may have missed it with the timeout fromfreenode)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: did I say "wee"?
<neuro> i don't think i did ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: well it *sounds* similar
<neuro> yeah but it doesn't have the same meaning, does it?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: maybe..
<neuro> maybe for you, you foreign person :)
 * neuro grrrrs at the 3 website
<neuro> can't log in from chrome, what's that all about
<popey> same for orange
<popey> which is one reason I left them
<neuro> heh
<neuro> luckily i have a mate who works for 3, am hassling him now
<neuro> and when I say "works for 3", I don't mean some dude in customer support, i mean he helped build their mobile app
<MartijnVdS> so He Knows People
<MartijnVdS> , probably?
<neuro> yeah
<Myrtti> I've not had problems with 3 with chrome, is this some new development
<neuro> the last few weeks I think
<neuro> used to work for me no problem
<neuro> the login box is a little iframe and after mashing on the login button you get a greyed iframe with the unhappy chrome guy inside
<neuro> "connection was reset", which is nice
<neuro> haven't tried in firefox yet (not that i've launched firefox in months), or chromium, so might be a mac thing?
<Myrtti> fair enough I'm using chromium
<Myrtti> let me try with chrome too
<Myrtti> works fine on chrome beta
<neuro> beta? what ver?
<Myrtti> Version 32.0.1700.19 beta
<neuro> hmm, 31.0.1650.57 here
<neuro> and i can login just peachy in chromium 30.0.1599.114 (which is whatever is currently installable on precise)
<neuro> maybe just a chrome 31 thing, but still weird
<neuro> gotta love macs ... https://www.dropbox.com/s/4no4qudt4bd99fk/Screenshot%202013-11-21%2010.58.27.png
<neuro> XQuartz for the win
<popey> my house smells delicious.
<arsen> whysat?:o
<Myrtti> presumably bacon
<popey> because http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/11226/sticky-belly-pork
<arsen> very nice.
<MartijnVdS> popey: yum
<arsen> thoroughly recommend the pit cue cookbook for meat tips.
<bigcalm> I wouldn't be able to allow the cooling period. Would just eat it there and then
<Myrtti> sister's birthday / christmas present arrived
<Myrtti> I'm way too good sister for her, she doesn't deserve me :-/
<Myrtti> I should learn to sit on my wallet
<Myrtti> (earlier bought her a Nexus 4, now bought her a car bluetooth/fm transmitter handsfree thing)
<Myrtti> anyway, Plantronics K100 in car speakerphone Vizor, 10/10 would recommend
<mungbean> wow
<mungbean> we had to stop buying for siblings and now buy for their kids
<mungbean> it became an amazon voucher swapping game
<Myrtti> I buy them and the kids techie gifts they wouldn't afford or know how to buy
<MartijnVdS> We just buy silly gifts (and LOTS of them) for christmas, and then play a game to see who gets which
<Myrtti> since - as you've guessed - I'd have to support them in their techie problems
<mungbean> i'm running out of hama beads to make 8-bit characters http://i.imgur.com/zhthxTd.jpg
<Myrtti> this years purchases insipired by seeing my niece driving the family car with her iphone in her lap, texting her friends and they fumbling around with ancient cd's in their car stereo
<Myrtti> had I known about Moto G a month ago, sister been forced to wait for an extra month and she would've gotten that instead of the N4
<mungbean> other ones: http://i.imgur.com/N78tYkc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6ndozg4.jpg
<GentileBen> Myrtti how have you found the battery life on the N5, and did you enable ART?
<Myrtti> yeah I did enable it, it's good
<mungbean> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/19/college-rfid-chip-tracking-pupils-invasion-privacy
<Myrtti> ooh UPM Rafsec
<nigelb> AlanBell: hi! you about?
<AlanBell> o/
<mungbean> http://findtheinvisiblecow.com/
<mungbean> good game if you WFH
<mungbean> or have headphones
<GentileBen> Myrtti, I think my battery life improved after I enabled ART but I'd like to see some benches.
<Myrtti> it's mostly about the location sharing
<Myrtti> that made the biggest difference for me
<arsen> 4heh, apparently my browser is unsupported, mungbean.
<GentileBen> What about location sharing?
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> that game is fun
<Myrtti> Google Now is on by default and it polls where you are with GPS/Wifi/mobile - and it's on high accuracy too. If you go to the battery graph and Google Play Services are the biggest drain, click on it and go to "Adjust power use" and change the location settings
<popey> Myrtti: hows the job going?
<Myrtti> trying to find something like mahara but not mahara at the moment
<Myrtti> also trying to think about Scrum tools
<popey> like trello?
<Myrtti> and how to get students to do open source contributions instead of coding the never ending bookstore / magazine subscription / video rental examples
<Myrtti> popey: more like Jira or Redmine, but yes, Trello is on the list
<popey> i found an open source implementation of trello-like kanban
<Myrtti> Redmine seems to get the coders twitch their faces a bit so I think that option is dead-ish
<Myrtti> popey: oh, do share
<popey> https://github.com/malclocke/fulcrum
<TheOpenSourcerer> We used Redmine - It's OK for our needs (apart from Ruby)...
<popey> i span it up on my home server to play with, seems pretty good
<popey> http://wholemeal.co.nz/projects/fulcrum.html
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, redmine is fine until you try to migrate it...
<TheOpenSourcerer> It has some very annoying aspects but as a simple bug tracker that's linked to various internal repos it's fine.
<diplo> Fulcrum is ruby aswell it seems :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I stopped reading at that point
<TheOpenSourcerer> github repo not touched much recently either...
<diplo> hadn't noticed that
<Myrtti> yeah well we need atleast google apps for domains support, and preferably github/travis integration, planning poker etc.
<diplo> I keep debating tinkering with Ruby, but I just really can't get to want to
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seem to me that Ruby just adds a whole new meaning to "dependency hell".
<diplo> that's the sense I got from directhex and someone else in here, I did setup a redmine install and it was fairly painless but ...
<popey> Use Go!
<awilkins> I have a fairly painless Minecraft install recipe if anyone wants it
<awilkins> Sorry, Redmine, not Minecraft
<awilkins> Redmine + redmine_backlogs plugin is OK
<bigcalm> Any badminton players in here able to recommend a good feather shuttlecock?
<bigcalm> Latest mobile humble bundle - only Swordigo has any appeal
<directhex> you must hate to shoot fish then
<bigcalm> directhex: is that one fun as well?
<directhex> it involves shooting fish
<GentileBen> If only you hadn't said "shuttlecock", bigcalm.
<popey> that was the film me and wifey went to see on our first date
<GentileBen> I can recommend many different feathers.
<bigcalm> Heh
<mungbean> i saw matrix 2 on my first date with wifey
<bashrc> was matrix 2 any good? I htink I only ever saw 1
<popey> Matrix 1 was one of the first DVDs I owned, before it was out in the Cinema here
<bigcalm> bashrc: no need to spoil the 1st film with 2 and 3. Though the Animatrix is good :)
<popey> had a Creative DVD player in my Dan P200 PC at the time
<awilkins> I agree, Matrix was the first title I ever stuck in my DVD ROM drive / Home DVD player
<awilkins> I think I had a Panasonic DVD ROM
<arsen> jeeebus, Dan computers!
<arsen> that's a blast from the past.
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> Finding out that Tron was on DVD caused me to buy a DVD player
<mungbean> a mashup of 2 and 3 might be ok
<mungbean> but i felt it was too overly complex and twisty turny and the fight scenes with the bad guy who plays elrond in LOTR were stupid and too long
<ali1234> no, the matrix sequels were not good. a bit like the star wars prequels.
<ali1234> i thought the big battle at the end of 3 was the best part. it's what the dragonball z movie should have been like.
<mungbean> the fight scene will 100 elronds was made just for the computer game i felt
<popey> lol
<ali1234> i mean the 1 on 1 epic battle at the end
<popey> 100 elronds â»
<arsen> my first pc was an Escom P75 :<
<ali1234> i can see how you could find that boring though - dbz is famous for long drawn out fights
<popey> my first pc was an Epson PC 8086
<mungbean> http://www.theendisnigel.com/john/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/smiths.jpg
<mungbean> i hated that scene was so bored
<arsen> ooh
<ali1234> mungbean: have you seen the final fantasy 7 movie?
<ali1234> you would probably hate that
<mungbean> ali1234: i only got a few hours into ff game which i realised was not even a game but a series of cut scenes
<ali1234> well, you have to think of those games as movies with a bit of interaction to break up the story
<ali1234> rather than a game that gets interrupted with cut scenes
<mungbean> yeah, not my thing, although i tried to like it
<mungbean> my fave games are elite(and oolite), exile, sensible soccer, ssx, GTA3 and vrally. sure i'm forgetting something important there.
<GentileBen>  â» â» â» â» â»
<ali1234> swos was a good game until someone figured out how to score from the half way line
<ali1234> that was a real game breaker
<neuro> "Your Amazon.co.uk order of "Xbox One Console: Day One..." and 1 more item(s) has been dispatched"
<neuro> a-woo-hoo
 * bigcalm orders the SSD before it goes up in price any further :S
<Myrtti> dsample's project managers Barclays payment had bounced and Game had cancelled the order :-/
<Myrtti> the pm had taken tomorrow off too
<bigcalm> Poo
<bigcalm> New Zelda game is out for 3DS and 2DS tomorrow. Do I buy a 3DS or 2DS to play it?
<ali1234> 3DS: the 2DS is rubbish apparently
<ali1234> and you can get a second hand 3DS for less anyway
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU4M9WF5wF0
 * bigcalm watches
<popey> heh, knew that would be ashens
<bigcalm> Is this guy that does zeropunctuation?
<ali1234> no, but he does sound really similar
 * bigcalm looks at his non-girly hands :S
<bigcalm> Can you disable the 3d on a 3ds?
<ali1234> yes
<GentileBen> neuro, are you going to winch it in through the window? It's pretty big.
<GentileBen> bigcalm: yes.
<GentileBen> Which is why the 2DS is hilariously terribad.
<bigcalm> Good :)
<GentileBen> bigcalm: the 3D effect isn't that great though.
<bigcalm> Going to order from Tesco as I have a Â£20 off Â£100 voucher :)
<neuro> GentileBen: it's about as big as a big VCR
<neuro> it'll be fine :)
 * bigcalm reminds himself to catch up on zp videods
<GentileBen> neuro: it literally wouldn't fit under my bed.
<GentileBen> It can't stand up either. ;S
<GentileBen> It only works when laid flat.
<GentileBen> ...
<neuro> s'fine with  me
<GentileBen> Or rather, MS say only horizontal placement is supported.
<neuro> it's going into my AV stack, replacing my ps3
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
<GentileBen> It's a bigass box you know.
<neuro> i know it is
<GentileBen> neuro it does have DLNA support doesn't it?
<GentileBen> PS4 doesn't have it.
<neuro> it will do later i think
<neuro> i don't know to be honest
<neuro> i don't care either, it won't be used for that ;)
<neuro> i have a mac mini for media stuffs
<dwatkins> Would a USB bootable version of 12.04.3 (LTS) with persistence, latest updates etc. have the same software as if I'd installed everything on the hard drive?
<bigcalm> I think I found the one for me! http://www.tesco.com/direct/nintendo-3ds-xl-black-zelda-link-between-worlds-limited-edition/267-4420.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=267-4420
<dwatkins> I considered upgrading to a 3DS, but the 3D stuff gives me a headache.
<bigcalm> I want the new zelda game. Won't get that without a 3/2DS
<bigcalm> Glad that the 3D bit can be turned off
<dwatkins> yeah, maybe it's because I'm astigmatic.
<directhex> popey, looking at it, you're right. AGF is written in Unity3D. madness/cool!
<popey> â»
<directhex> it's a game development suite, written in a different game development suite
<directhex> http://inception.davepedu.com/
<GentileBen> <popey> â» <-- are you a minstrel, popey?
<diddledan> mornin
<daftykins> my Nexus 4 just downloaded Android 4.4 :O
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<diddledan> daftykins: yey
<diddledan> </delay>
<diddledan> I wasn't watching the channel :-p
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> how angry was morning diddledan?
<diddledan> daftykins: not too bad actually
<diddledan> daftykins: I was in work by 9:30
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6051jmb8dl3b7po/Screenshot_2013-11-21-22-00-06.png
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yay modern softwares
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i actually consider these updates quite the non-event for me
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have a Nexus 5, I've had 4.4 for WEEKS :P
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i can't believe how many people bought it
<daftykins> what did you have prior?
<MartijnVdS> Galaxy Nexus
<MartijnVdS> so I skipped one
<daftykins> the first? D:
<daftykins> oh that one
<MartijnVdS> I had a Nexus One (skipped Nexus S), then Galaxy Nexus (skipped Nexus 4), now a Nexus 5
<daftykins> heh tiny bootlogo
<MartijnVdS> how often are you going to see that though
<daftykins> depends if it decides to bug out with this update again :D
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<daftykins> i'm half of the mind to factory reset, truth be told
 * MartijnVdS -> Zzz
<daftykins> so soon! ta-ra o/
<daftykins> it's so wintery my server's disks are 18/20 deg C :D
 * dwatkins creates a bootable USB stick 5 miles away
<dwatkins> that should be all ready to go by the time I get in tomorrow, give or take 8 hours
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i remember my mum was after something on CD-R when i was at Uni, server was still in Guernsey
<dwatkins> also, I landed on the Mun, today has been a good day!
<daftykins> text to say put a blank CD in, RDP'd over - wrote it \o/
<dwatkins> nice one :)
<daftykins> Mun? 0o
<dwatkins> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=196978893 daftykins
<daftykins> ah :)
<dwatkins> slowly getting the hang of all this space stuff
<dwatkins> penguin42: you might recognise these from Black Mesa... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=114784688
<daftykins> so is Kerbal SP a sort of - trial and error scenario game?
<dwatkins> as might anyone else familiar with the SGI Origin 2000
<dwatkins> daftykins: I play it like that, my ships get better incrementally as I discover stuff
<daftykins> ah so there's an alternative?
<dwatkins> you can reload from a quicksave if you crash into something, but I tend to try not to crash, and instead have contingency plans
<daftykins> :>
<dwatkins> I also happen to have a script which backs-up my savegame in case a mission is a complete disaster and I want to start all over, but the quicksave was too late in the mission ;)
<DJones> popey: just a heads up, my wife's n7 has just updated to kit kat, mine which Is 3months older hasn:t yet
<dwatkins> my friend bought a nexus 7 on ebay, it got stolen a week later :(
<dwatkins> sadly she hadn't installed Prey
<dwatkins> nor had she registered it with immobilise.co.uk
<dwatkins> I *strongly* suggest everyone do both these things with all mobile devices and laptops, in case they get nicked
<DJones> I've just picked up a 3rd n7 for members
<dwatkins> the police and pawn shops check immobilise, and prey might be quite satisfying to use if you get to the last resort of having to remote detonate^W disable the device
<dwatkins> ;)
<DJones> local store keep  looking At me now when i walk in
<daftykins> :D
<popey> DJones: yeah, seen various people post screenshots on G+
<popey> I flashed one of mine, guess the other will get an OTA update
<ali1234> is it on n7 yet?
<popey> can't be arsed to go and get it though â»
<popey> yes
<ali1234> cool
<popey> and n4
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> yeah, i have the update waiting :) :) :)
<popey> go and get mine would you?
 * popey is busy watching Dr Who
<ali1234> DJones: i found this earlier: http://askubuntu.com/questions/368068/how-will-people-upgrade-from-12-10-to-14-04-after-13-04-is-eol
<ali1234> you have to read all the comments to get the full answer though
<penguin42> dwatkins: Haha very nice
<popey> didnt they confirm it, you can upgrade from 12.10 to 14.04 directly?
<ali1234> DJones: of course, *you* asked that question
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> popey: the answer i got from rick wasn't very reassuring :P
<popey> it was discussed in one of the earlier sessions wasnt it?
 * popey tries to figure out which one
<ali1234> it was basically, "i dunno, but i'm sure someone will sort it out"
<popey> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/all/
<ali1234> it was probably the automated upgrade testing one
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1311-core-1311-lts-upgrade-testing
<popey> there you go
<popey> Q->T
<ali1234> so bdmurray is responsible for figuring out what to do?
<popey> ya
<DJones> ali1234: basically, the last ansaer in the thread confirms There will be an upgrade process, but Not If it'll Be to lts or 13.10
<popey> he's the guy to poke
<ali1234> DJones: yeah, i didn't notice you asked that question
<popey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-lts-upgrade-testing
<popey> sub to that blueprint
<popey> why is my android tablet giving me a notification that Everton are playing Liverpool on 23 Nov?
<popey> a google now
<ali1234> you can sub to your favourite team's calendar to get fixtures
<popey> I once went to liverpool, so google think I'm a footie fan now
<ali1234> that's the other possibility
<popey> "you searched for this team"
<popey> nope, I didnt
<DJones> popey: that makes sense, why else would you go to Liverpool
<popey> no update on my n7
<ali1234> hmm... upgraded to 4.4... there's absolutely no difference with the old version
<ali1234> it looks exactly the same
<ali1234> didn't even have to reinstall any apps
<DJones> ali1234: my wife said she couldn't see a difference
<ali1234> the clock doesn't have the bold hours/light minutes thing any more
<ali1234> good, i never liked that
<ali1234> it didn't even break iplayer
<DJones> although, she's collapsing and blacking Out a couple of times a day, so I'm Not confident in what she notices At the moment
<daftykins> DJones: ? D:
<BigRedS> is there some way to find when the partition table on a volume was last changed?
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> yeah, I expected not
<ali1234> not any portable way anyway
<ali1234> if it's a dos partition table it's literally only a few kb long
<BigRedS> yeah, I've just been trying to work out where it might be and stubled across almost nothing
<ali1234> why do you want this information?
<ali1234> one thing you can do is look at when the filesystems were formatted (depending on FS)
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm interested in when it was formatted
<BigRedS> but, apparently, I'm not any more
<BigRedS> it's an iso9660 fs; someone's unetbootined all over a usb stick
<ali1234> what exactly are you trying to do? recover files?
<BigRedS> no, it was more out of interest
<BigRedS> "are you sure this is the stick you think it is" sort of thing
<ali1234> well, try poking around in unallocated sectors
<ali1234> or iow just look at the raw disk with a hex editor/strings/grep
<BigRedS> yeah, apparently it's become a boring question and I don't have the stick anymore anyway now
<TheHustle> Hello, I have an external USB DVD Drive @ "scsi2" on the list of devices in the terminal, please could someone tell me how to mount it
<daftykins> as in sda2? what file system does it use?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-22
<TheHustle> it's reporting as "scsi2" in the devices column
<TheHustle> it's ide
<Azelphur> a USB DVD drive is a read only, you can just unplug it
<TheHustle> Azelphur, i'm trying to read it
<penguin42> TheHustle: And you have a drive in it?
<Azelphur> whoops, for some reason I read that as unmount instead of mount >.<
<daftykins> oh i didn't read DVD, whoops
<TheHustle> penguin42, yes
<penguin42> TheHustle: And you have a disk in it?
<TheHustle> yes
<Azelphur> daftykins: together, we can epicly fail at reading \o/
<TheHustle> but no icon appears anywhere to access it
<penguin42> TheHustle: OK, so does it show in the file manager?
<daftykins> Azelphur: \o/
<TheHustle> penguin42 no
<TheHustle> penguin42, no it doesn't*
<penguin42> TheHustle: Hmph
<penguin42> TheHustle: do you have any other cdroms or DVDs in the machine?
<TheHustle> i have a cd in the pc
<TheHustle> dvd*
<TheHustle> the external dvd drive is acting like it's ready to be read
<penguin42> TheHustle: OK, so how about something at the command line like udisksctl mount -b /dev/sr1
<TheHustle> 1 minute please, ill try it
<penguin42> if sr1 doesn't work try sr0
<TheHustle> udiskctl: command not found
<penguin42> and if neither of those work then please pastebin  the output of /proc/partitions
<penguin42> TheHustle: Which ubuntu?
<TheHustle> 10.04
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> may be worth mentioning that 10.04 is unsupported now
<penguin42> TheHustle: ok, so we need to use udisks for that
<penguin42> TheHustle: Try   udisks --mount /dev/sr0
<TheHustle> one moment please, ill try that now
<TheHustle> error mounting, unknown device /dev/sr0
<TheHustle> daftykins, i had to downgrade because the newest version wouldnt accept my external enclosure, something to do with a kernel bug in the newest release
<penguin42> TheHustle: OK, if you do    cat /proc/partitions   do you see either sr0 or sr1 ?
<TheHustle> one moment please
<TheHustle> sda, sda1, sda2, sda5
<TheHustle> that's all that's there
<daftykins> "ls -l /dev/s*" ?
<TheHustle> one moment please
<penguin42> TheHustle: If you're not seeing an sr0 or sr1 in there then I think the drive isn't being detected
<penguin42> TheHustle: you could pastebin the output of dmesg on the machine
<TheHustle> this is one of the options in the list, root cdrom 11, 0 2013-11-21 23:33 /dev/sr0
<TheHustle> the reason why i say "one moment please" is because the machine is upstairs, so i have to keep running up and down stairs
<TheHustle> it has no internet access, sorry
<daftykins> sounds like the internal drive only
<daftykins> if you booted up with the external one connected, could you get a copy of the output of 'dmesg' pastebin'd for penguin42 ? :)
<penguin42> TheHustle: Best way to keep fit
<TheHustle> sorry my motherboard is sata only
<TheHustle> the drive is ide
<penguin42> TheHustle: try    lsusb
<TheHustle> one moment please
<penguin42> TheHustle: With it plugged in and with it not plugged in
<TheHustle> there are 5x usb 1.1, and 2x usb 2.0
<TheHustle> one moment please, ill go try that
<penguin42> TheHustle: Do you have a digi camera?
<TheHustle> the same
<TheHustle> 5x usb 1.1, and 2x usb 2.0
<TheHustle> penguin42: not off hand, sorry
<ali1234> is this a motherboard with IDE that's chained off USB?
<ali1234> or is it true external?
<TheHustle> ali1234 external enclosure
<TheHustle> usb
<penguin42> TheHustle: OK, so you should see something other than the   root hub   lines in lsusb
<penguin42> TheHustle: And when you plug your enclosure in you should see another line
<penguin42> TheHustle: This enclosure does have an external PSU I assume?
<TheHustle> no, the same 5/2
<penguin42> TheHustle: OK, then it's not even seeing it as a usb device
<TheHustle> yes external psu
<ali1234> does it work on other computers?
<penguin42> TheHustle: If lsusb isn't seeing it then it's not even seeing at as any usb device, so something pretty basic ain't happy
<TheHustle> ill go double check
<TheHustle> 1 moment please
<TheHustle> ah...
<TheHustle> now that's funny...
<TheHustle> this time this appears...
<TheHustle> Genesys Logic Inc, USB 2.0 Ide Adapter
<penguin42> good!
<ali1234> could be a dodgy usb port, or duff power supply
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> or maybe the controller just can't handle DVD drives... not all of them can
<TheHustle> penguin42, what should i do now please
<penguin42> TheHustle: I'd look at the output of dmesg and see what it's saying about the usb device, and if it's appearing in lsusb   I'd also check /proc/partitions again, but if it's only appearing sometimes then something bad is happening anyway
<ali1234> eject; eject -t
<ali1234> tray should open and then close
<TheHustle> ok, ill have a check, and report back in the morning
<TheHustle> ill have to turn it now, many thanks for you help guys
<TheHustle> night
<daftykins> ta-ra
<daftykins> now, for a relaxing tune - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR1t0zwMk-w
<daftykins> so beautiful it brings tears to my eyes
<diddledan> daftykins: you trying to send me to sleep?!
<diddledan> it's not 3am yet
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> =]
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FoADDUU3bQ
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> htf is looking at www.oralyte.co.uk at this time of the day?! (I just got an email from the site that requires a visitor to actually fire (might be automated visitor/bot, I guess)
<diddledan> wtf**
<diddledan> I spell who as hoo :-p
<ali1234> well i am now
<diddledan> yeah but you wouldn't be if I hadn't mentioned it
<penguin42> diddledan: It mentions a TV ad - when does it run?
<ali1234> looks like the kinda thing advertized on late night tv
<diddledan> erm. good question
<ali1234> in between reruns of kojack
<diddledan> I have no idea when the tv ad ran, will run - it's an old site - over a year since the last update
 * penguin42 hands ali1234 a lolli
<diddledan> the problem with pharma sites is the amount of beurocracy each change has to go through before it can be published
<diddledan> every statement has to be backed up with evidence and citations up the wazooo
<daftykins> :(
<diddledan> it means that no matter how "engaged" the client wants to make their site they get waylaid by various entities checking that it doesn't make false claims etc. so in essence every site ends up unchanged from the moment it goes live
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm guessing the same thing happens with banking and other things where people have screwed up badly enough
<diddledan> yeah I would expect so
<diddledan> and completely changing the subject. someone wants me to buy the domain "cluster-group.com" before it's too late and someone else beats me to it
<diddledan> hmm, my details are wrong on the similarly named domain that I DO own (where they got my email from)
 * diddledan goes and updates whois
<daftykins> 0o
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning, it's pretty quiet in here at the moment
<AlanBell> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy AlanBell :D
<GentileBen> MooooooooDoo.
<MooDoo> hullooooooooo mooooooooooooooooooooooo
<SuperMatt> morning guys
<bigcalm> 13:48, I might have been a little cautious
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 13:48? you're several hours ahead?
<GentileBen> What time do you think it is now, bigcalm?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: context is everything :D Google doodle
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<MartijnVdS> I didn't finish it, but played it a bit :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Go For A Ride Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> where shall I ride to, JamesTait?
<SuperMatt> also, do I have to do it today, cos I'm quite busy
<Laney> yes
<SuperMatt> I have to run out of the door at work today because I have so much on
<Laney> ride around the block
<Laney> does look like quite a nice day for a ride actually
<GentileBen> SuperMatt, why do you have to run out?
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, you could do with a bike, then. :)
<GentileBen> Why can't you stroll out?
<GentileBen> Oh, you and JamesTait should go on a tandem bike ride along the Thames. ^_^
<JamesTait> GentileBen, not the Trent?
<SuperMatt> because I have to get changed in to my suit and make it to the London Hippodrome before 7 to help teach a dance class
<JamesTait> GentileBen, or the Derwent?
<GentileBen> They'd beat you senseless up there.
<GentileBen> "Hippodrome" isn't nearly as epic as it sounds.
<SuperMatt> no? you've been there?
<GentileBen> It sounds Greek, and is unrelated to the aquatic predator.
<SuperMatt> no, it's never been unrelated to hippos
<GentileBen> SuperMatt there are no hippos in the Hippodrome.
<GentileBen> It's not a zoo or anything.
<GentileBen> I swear
<SuperMatt> if you know anything, it's hippo is actually derived from greek or roman (I can't remember) meaning horse
<SuperMatt> and a hippodrome would literally be a horse racing stadium
<GentileBen> "The name hippodrome was derived from animal acts forming a significant part of the entertainment."
<JamesTait> GentileBen, I've been on lots of rides along the Trent-Mersey canal and the old Derby canal route, and never been beaten senseless yet.
<SuperMatt> so yes, hippodrome is as awesome as it sounds
<GentileBen> Yes it used to be used for horse races.
 * JamesTait just loves tempting fate.
<MartijnVdS> it's "river horse" in ancient greek
<GentileBen> JamesTait, but were you on a tandem bike with SuperMatt?
<MartijnVdS> (Dutch is "Nijlpaard" -> "Nile horse")
<GentileBen> Holding hands whilst singing Kylie Minogue songs?
 * JamesTait splutters
<Laney> mmm Trent
<GentileBen> Try that and see if you aren't beaten Senseless up there.
<JamesTait> I would *never* sing Kiylie Minogue songs!
<GentileBen> Ah a Danni Minogue fan
 * JamesTait turns away in disgust.
<andylockran> morning guys
<GentileBen> I brought up Kylie because I saw a Simpsons episode where they played her music
<SuperMatt> I don't know where these conversations are heading
<SuperMatt> can we just talk about linux again?
<GentileBen> They cut to a gay club opposite Moe's which was named The League of Extra-Horny Gentlemen.
<GentileBen> Made me laugh.
<GentileBen> Hornet how's Ipswich?
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, so, how about that Hannah Montana Linux, eh? :-P
<SuperMatt> it's got wayland
<SuperMatt> so it can't be all that bad
<JamesTait> Has it really?
<SuperMatt> I believe so
<diddledan> it'ld be better than a miley cyrus linux
<SuperMatt> I believe it was the first distro to ship using it by default
<GentileBen> Does it have Twerk Recognition?
<SuperMatt> oh wait
<SuperMatt> I was thinking of Rebecca Black Linux
<GentileBen> lol
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: well it *is* Friday
<JamesTait> Hah!
<GentileBen> I don't think that song was that bad.
<MooDoo> FridayFridayFriday Linux
<diddledan> argh
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: hippopotamus surely, not hippodrome
<GentileBen> I've heard worse from the likes of um Miley Cyrus.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: well, yes.
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but they were wondering about hippos at the hippodrome
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=noz8gRqPLGg#t=71
<Myrtti> *swoon* Tom Hiddleston
<GentileBen> Tom Huddlestone?
<GentileBen> ...
<GentileBen> Nevermind.
 * mungbean gets it
<MartijnVdS> it's all Greek to me
<GentileBen> It's all double Dutch to me.
<SuperMatt> right, if my final change has worked, I may finally have created my first ever juju charms and relation
<GentileBen> I wonder if the Dutch know we English use the phrase "double Dutch" to describe incomprehensible somewhat technical/complex chatter?
<GentileBen> They're probably too busy tending to their tulip beds to notice.
<SuperMatt> I don't think I've heard anyone say that since the 80s
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperMatt> morning bro
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<mungbean> GentileBen: borderline racist trolling belongs in #reddit-sysadmin
<GentileBen> Racist? Oh lawdy.
<GentileBen> You've led a very sheltered life.
<diddledan> the google doodle is a timesink today
<bigcalm> Not a huge amount I'd say. 15mins tops
<SuperMatt> I when you die, you get regenerated ;)
<SuperMatt> bloody genius
<bigcalm> Oh, that's why I got a different character from the one I chose
<bigcalm> :D
<SuperMatt> \o/
<GentileBen> Yes let's talk about Dr Who.
<GentileBen> Is it any good now? I watched a few episodes when it was Christopher Ecclestone and it was terrible.
<mungbean> the first series from any new director is good
<mungbean> then they do the messiah complex and 900yr old man fancying 20-something earth girl thing
<mungbean> and it gets silly
<GentileBen> Yeah, why is the companion always a young girl?
<mungbean> because totty
<GentileBen> People were appluading the producers for picking an older man for the role.
<brobostigon> any good guides, on LSL ?
<GentileBen> And it's like, wow, so now it's a 55-year-old guy perving over a 20-year-old?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: LSL?
<GentileBen> We'll know society has progressed when the doctor's companion is ugly as hell and old.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: linden script language.
<AlanBell> GentileBen: Rory was kind of a companion
<mungbean> nope, its a 900yr old guy
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ah, not Leisure Suit Larry (available on Steam for Linu ;))
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: neuro would know where to find that, I guess
<mungbean> amy and the new girl are probably the prettiest girls on tv, so i think its not accidental
<MartijnVdS> Clara++
<mungbean> rachel riley excepted
<mungbean> (not lisa riley)
<GentileBen> AlanBell, was there sexual chemistry between the Doctor and Rory?
<GentileBen> If not, it's sexist and homophobic.
<GentileBen> I think the Doctor would be pansexual given his age.
<AlanBell> the doctor doesn't do humans really
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companion_(Doctor_Who)#Eleventh_Doctor
<GentileBen> Oh right he's not human is he?
<directhex> except in two non-canon movies
<AlanBell> there is quite a lot going on with Captain Jack of course :)
<GentileBen> I read some Dr Who trivia by mistake recently.
<directhex> and i find the whole sexual tension thing distasteful. jon pertwee was never sexually charged
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, thank you.
<GentileBen> AlanBell, heh they better have made the Torchwood guy's companions all muscled hot men with waxed chests.
<diddledan> even a straight man would have trouble not having sexual chemistry with captain jack
<GentileBen> directhex, that is perhaps the best sentence I have ever read on IRC
<GentileBen> "jon pertwee was never sexually charged"
<directhex> patrick troughton wasn't on screen, although he did die of a heart attack after screwing groupies at a conference
<brobostigon> neuro: any advice on good LSL guides/manuals?
<GentileBen> I don't know anything about Dr Who.
<GentileBen> Well, I know it had cheesy storylines in the Ecclestone days.
<GentileBen> I watched a Christmas special IIRC.
<GentileBen> The one where the Doctor defeats the aliens with an orange.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I just watched the last 2 "9th doctor" episodes again last night
<GentileBen> And this is supposed to be top-drawer entertainment? He beats them with an orange?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: *every* time Jack talks to someone, the doctor goes "Not now Jack"
<MartijnVdS> "There's a time and a place, Jack"
<mungbean> there's always a time and place to punch jack in the face
<GentileBen> It's like the BBC Robin Hood series when they dressed them all in Topgear / Top Man clothes.
<MartijnVdS> also, \o/ netflix
<GentileBen> "Hey we have some oranges lying around let's use them as props."
<mungbean> did you hear about the loser who watched all the avaialbel dr who episodes from time immemorial in the run up to this 50th thingy
<diddledan> loser? I resemble that remark
<diddledan> wait, no, that should be resent
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Tony?
<mungbean> well he lost 3000hrs of his life
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that's a lot of who
<mungbean> i've watched them too, just sspread over 38 years
<popey> I enjoyed the thing that was on last night
<popey> Adventures in Space and Time
<GentileBen> mungbean, did you introduce Dr Who to the bean sprouts?
<mungbean> i don't actually like beans
<brobostigon> get-iplayer --nopurge --type=tv 33 34   :)
<mungbean> get_iplayer for me. weird
<popey> i can't decide if /r/idiotsfightingthings /r/cringe or /r/whatcouldgowrong are my fave subreddits at the moment
<mungbean> doing quite well with my reddit cold turkey
<mungbean> even when people mention it
<MartijnVdS> popey: the "Cooking in a robe" one.. I've seen that happen to my dad once
<MartijnVdS> popey: (on whatcouldgowrong)
<arsen> knew i'd find some good doctor who chat in here :D
<directhex> want some different chat?
<directhex> the Xbox 360, Playstation 3, and Wii, now qualify as "retro gaming"
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Finally!
<mungbean> time to buy one soon then
<directhex> retro collectibles!
<Laney> wonder what my n64 is then
<popey> Yet the Ouya doesn't count as retro gaming â»
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Stone-age Gaming
<directhex> Laney, older retro gaming
<directhex> "retro gaming" is just anything which doesn't qualify as current-gen
<popey> MartijnVdS: did he do the jump
<MartijnVdS> Laney: well, maybe iron age
<directhex> the xbone, ps4 and wiiu are current gen, not next-gen
<Laney> interesting
<popey> my brother in law spent the last few months playtesting games on XBox One.
<popey> he had fun, but couldn't tell anyone about it.
<directhex> popey, i don't know *where* to put the damn ouya. for now i'm still classifying it as a smartphone.
 * Laney will have to dust it off at the weekend while visiting the rents
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> popey: no, he took it off as fast as he could and dumped water on it
<GentileBen> directhex: the Wii was retro gaming from launch day................
<Laney> my unofficial expansion pak amuses me
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, I was 4, so I don't remember details (other than the pattern of the flames, like you see in that video :)
<GentileBen> The Wii is two gamecubes taped together. The Wii U is an Xbox 360 with a slightly more powerful GPU.
<directhex> GentileBen, regardless of the clear disparity in specifications, the wii was being sold & marketed as the latest machine from one of the biggest companies in gaming for years
<mungbean> i still play the wii
<GentileBen> directhex, it had about half a dozen amazing games but they were all from Nintendo.
<mungbean> having kids helps
<popey> my kids do too
<GentileBen> Why would a third party EVER release a game for a Nintendo console?
<directhex> GentileBen, i wouldn't go that far. i think the wii is probably my lowest rated console.
<popey> my son still plays on my original xbox
<directhex> maybe the megadrive
<GentileBen> directhex, it has about 8 amazing games.
<GentileBen> Games everybody should play.
<directhex> GentileBen, name them
<GentileBen> It's just that the other 500 games are terrible.
<GentileBen> Um hang on let me pull out an IGN list...
<mungbean> shaunwhite snowboarding is by ubisoft
<popey> i really liked warioware
<GentileBen> mungbean lol
<MartijnVdS> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-anyone-can-make
<MartijnVdS> ^ seen that?
<GentileBen> Wario Ware, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2
<mungbean> both zeldas, super mario galaxy, wii sports, sports resort , wii fit plus, snowboarding world tour
<Myrtti> brilliant timing, UPS van with dsamples XBox One arrives just when my videoconf starts
<Myrtti> grrr
<GentileBen> http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/08/14/the-top-25-wii-games-2
<mungbean> donkey kong country, excellent game
<mungbean> mario kart wii
<mungbean> lots of excellent games
<directhex> i didn't feel it
<directhex> i own about half that top 25 list
<MartijnVdS> "Stop Wii-ing in the living room!"
<directhex> and i just didn't feel it
<bigcalm> Not sure if I can justify the price of a 3DSXL and game just to play the new Zelda game. What other good games are there for it?
<directhex> mario galaxy is probably the pinnacle of wii output
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Pokemon X/Y?
<directhex> bigcalm, ace attorney 5
<mungbean> pro evo soccer was the best on any platform due to the wii remote improving gameplay
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I've never seen a pokemon game, have a feeling it wouldn't be for me
<directhex> wife & i played & completed 1-4 on the DS
<mungbean> you could now put the ball anywhere on the field rather then predefined passes
<directhex> let me check my wii shelves for games i'd consider genuinely excellent
<bigcalm> directhex: can one play DS games on the 3DS?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/software-comparison
 * bigcalm reads
<directhex> yeah, i'd say mario galaxy is my top wii game
<directhex> smash bros is good as long as your wii is old enough to have gamecube ports
<ali1234> IGN sucks they wouldn't know a good game if it stamped on their face
<directhex> i didn't really feel much for either of the wii zelda games
<directhex> i'd struggle to make a wii top 10, let alone top 25
<directhex> i guess part of it is i'd be satisfied with, say, five life-defining games on the system
<arsen> sorry got distracted by .. god forbid.. *work*
<directhex> maybe even a couple of them
<mungbean> had to stop playing zelda latest one when my gold wii remote died due to leaky batteries
<MartijnVdS> arsen: eww, on Friday?
<arsen> what's the official determiner of "retro"?
<arsen> yeah i've told them, but people don't stop breaking things on fridays sadly.
<mungbean> nxclient seem to have removed their links to download the v3 clients grrr
<arsen> graphite/statsd/collectd/graphene/etcblah is todays job
<arsen> i like making pretty pictures.
<directhex> i'd rate the dreamcast ahead of the wii, from less than a half dozen genuinely incredible gaming experiences
<MartijnVdS> arsen: shiny graphy things :)
<MartijnVdS> I have a PSP with a handful of games if anyone is interested
<directhex> Rez, now that was an experience
<GentileBen> I'm interested in hearing more.
<arsen> i was trying to find suggestions as to peoples favourite ways of pulling data from mysql into graphite, but any kind of google for "graphite" and "mysql" just returns the OTHER common result - people failing at installing django/graphite with mysql backend. sometimes google sucks a bit :(
<arsen> maybe my googling needs improving.
<directhex> i hear bing can get you the search results you need!
<Rory> arsen: "mysql graphite import"
<arsen> annoyance of the week - my company has moved to Gmail and the tardy IT dept hasn't considered our internet leased line may need some more bandwidth :<
<SuperMatt> doh
<MartijnVdS> TARDIS IT dept.
<arsen> gona start collating some hillarious "time-to-load-website" stats and somehow turn it into a sarcastic support ticket.
<arsen> nice, MartijnVdS, nice.
<Rory> arsen: probably no need for that; if they're on the same connection they'll already know its slow
<arsen> aha! you make some assumptions there. :D
<arsen> it's the kind of IT dept that's more likely to assume "the internet" is busy (read: the rest of the world), rather than "there could be a problem in our systems"
<mungbean> run iptraf on the firewall
<SuperMatt> lollers
<SuperMatt> in my last company, every department but IT had limited bandwidth
<SuperMatt> but that was so that we couldn't be hampered by people watching youtube videos, while we were trying to back up a critical server to the colo because the raid had lost a drive
<SuperMatt> or something
<arsen> i had that at an old job, it was more so other people's browsing wouldnt hamper our youtube/tv streaming.
<shauno_> sounds like a nice and simple "why would I place limits on myself?"
<SuperMatt> hah, it wasn't really like that with us
<SuperMatt> we got on with our work
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer: yo.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 'sup GentileBen
<TheOpenSourcerer> You did this yesterday then didn't say anything further...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Which was rather annoying
 * popey ponders lunch
<MartijnVdS> popey: no pork today?
<popey> heh
<popey> -ENOPORK
 * popey has noodles
<MartijnVdS> oodles of noodles!
<popey> chicken-style quorn noodles in fact
<popey> nom
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did a test last night with some green beans and a thin strip of nori. :-D
<directhex> you could add bacon to your chicken-style quorn noodles to make them tastier
<popey> true!
<popey> I has no bacon
<Myrtti> there's Scandinavian Christmas market in london this weekend
<Myrtti> suddenly I want pork
<popey> I could in fact cook some bacon and chop it up finely and then split it into small portions and freeze for later inclusion in noodle lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> lardons!
<popey> yes!
<MooDoo> our company has just paid for a chinese restuarant to come in and cook for us, it's smelling pretty nice in here at the moment.
<Laney> oh man
<Laney> I'll be there in 6 minutes
<popey> \o/ Great success noodles
<MooDoo> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer will be going home early today to prepare supper for our guests: Goats Cheese, Seared Lettuce & Spring Onion on a sourdough toast for starter. Followed by Chicken en Papillote with tomatoes & Rosemary, served with Hassleback potatoes & bundles of green beans. With an seville orange cheesecake to round it all off...
<penguin42> what's 'Chicken en Papillote' ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> In a bag
<penguin42> ah
 * penguin42 likes the sound of the seville orange cheesecake
<TheOpenSourcerer> A paper bag. SEaled so it steams in it's own juices and the rest of the stuff you put in it.
<MooDoo> sounds lovely
<TheOpenSourcerer> Served sealed so the diner cuts open the bag and is enveloped in steamy lovelyness
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just need to do the timing schedule and I'm all set.
<Laney> Got to make a weird phone call to the local volunteer / veggie cafÃ©
<arsen>  /me googles hassleback potatos
<Laney> "erm... do you want a giant pumpkin?"
<arsen> good typing there. good one me.
<arsen> wow, they're interesting. not seen that before!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I read that as "local volunteer / Wggie cafÃ©" ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Weggie
<penguin42> Laney: How giant?
<Laney> wg wg wg
<Laney> I've got a picture, one second
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/7kPpb3xr0lrQliAl41L7ae
<MooDoo> full sized image laney :p
<penguin42> hmm if Doctor Who was 1st broadcast on 23rd Nov why do we get the google doodle today
<Laney> MooDoo: for your inspection
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: timey-wimey things?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: maybe an even bigger one tomorrow?
<MooDoo> Laney: what on earth is that?
<Laney> see above, it is a pumpkin
<TheOpenSourcerer> Atlantic Giant?
<MooDoo> it's mahoosive
<Laney> no idea what varietyu
<MooDoo> yup it's a big one
<Laney> my dad gave it to me, don't know why he thought I would want something that large
<penguin42>  'Oh thanks, just what I erm....'
<Laney> pretty much
<mungbean> whats this amazon coins virtual currency?
<penguin42> loyalty scheme?
<bashrc> sounds like funny money
<penguin42> like all loyalty schemes
<diddledan> that's not even a real pumpkin. it's got cracks where the paint dried
<GentileBen> How rarely do we talk about Ubuntu in here?
<Laney> quite
<mungbean> when visitors come in
<GentileBen> We spend more time talking about our breakfasts than Wayland or Mir.
<GentileBen> I skipped breakfast today.
<GentileBen> 1.75 sandwiches for lunch.
<diddledan> .75?
<GentileBen> I ate half of one triangle.
<diplo> 3/4's :)
<diplo> lol
<GentileBen> Three whole triangles and a half triangle.
<diplo> I try not to look at this channel at lunch time because you all make me hungry!
<GentileBen> Two triangles just aren't enough
<GentileBen> But four? That's too much.
<GentileBen> And my work refectory doesn't serve triple packs.
<MooDoo> i'm on seconds already
<diplo> Cut your sandwiches!? My son won't allow me to do that, that's for babies!
<diplo> :)
<diddledan> that sounds like a bug that needs reporting
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: bigcalm: results of my test last night (after eating some off each end ;-) ) https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlanLord/posts/jiYyBiBW9Gg
<diddledan> issue: "triple-packed sandwiches remain inaccessible to end-user despite repeated attempts"
<GentileBen> I should put in a change request for triple-pack sandwiches.
<GentileBen> It's going to go to the change management board, which I sit on.
<GentileBen> Is this a conflict of interest?
<diddledan> hmm, quite possibly
<GentileBen> I better declare it just in case.
<GentileBen> What's the point of sitting on the board if I can't give my own pet changes priority? I am a successful IT professional and I demand triple-pack sandwiches.
<penguin42> GentileBen: Wouldn't you want fresh sandwiches?
<arsen> i can act as the rollback, i'll volounteer to eat all of the third sandwiches should it be deemed neccessary to revert to a two-sandwich system until such time as two-pack sandwiches can be manufacturered again.
<GentileBen> They're "freshly made" but packed on the day.
<GentileBen> arsen, your support is appreciated.
 * GentileBen adds arsen as secondary contact for the change
<arsen> i'll also volounteer to assist with the risk assessment by eating 1 in every 3 triple pack sandwiches made, to check they are still being made as a 3-sandwich container.
<GentileBen> Ah you do QA as well?
<arsen> samples of my risk assessment can be forwarded to the change management board at their discretion.
<arsen> i'm a fully rounded consultancy, i can attempt to assist in many areas.
<penguin42> and if the change management board survive then the sandwiches were risk free
<Laney> so how about that Mir then
<MooDoo> the spacestation?
<diddledan> Laney: it burnt up during a failed reentry attempt
<GentileBen> Failed?
<arsen> i predict there will be no real efficiency loss with this new system, as each sandwich pack will contain 1 more than before, and we'll only lose 1 in 3 packs in the risk management process.
<GentileBen> Wasn't it known that it'd burn up?
<MooDoo> i predict a riot
<GentileBen> RIP MIR
<diddledan> GentileBen: it didn't survive the re-entry attempt, therefore the re-entry failed
<Laney> It wasn't a reentry attempt
<diddledan> what kind of idiot points a space station at the ground if it's not a re-entry attempt?!
<Laney> boring, going to do something else now
<diddledan> oh wait. russians.
<Laney> I'll come back when you've done trolling
<diddledan> that's never going to happen :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: They did pretty well with that space station
<diddledan> penguin42: until they crashed it
<penguin42> diddledan: well minor issue...
<MartijnVdS> into the pacific
<diddledan> they've broken the movie Armageddon, now
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, we can use ISS as a substitute
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it has Russians on it as well
<diddledan> and the americans have broken the movie "Space Cowbots"
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> cowbots sound interesting
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "MOO. MOO."
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: shouldn't that be "Beep. Moo. Moo."?
<diddledan> does `apt-get moo` still work?
<diddledan> it does on 12.04
<mungbean> Two men have been arrested in Saudi Arabia for offering free hugs to passers-by in the capital, Riyadh.
<mungbean> The Saudi religious police detained the two young men for indulging in exotic practices and offending public order.
<diddledan> wtF?
<diddledan> I think saudi arabia must be broken
<mungbean> The duties of Saudi Arabia's religious police, or mutawa, include preventing women driving, enforcing modest dress codes, policing bans on public entertainment and making sure all businesses close for prayers five times a day.
<GentileBen> diddledan, Saudi Arabia is the most conservative country on earth.
<GentileBen> They're also a strong ally of the US and UK.
<GentileBen> The UK in particular - we sell lots of stuff to them.
<GentileBen> As for the US, the US Fifth Fleet is based in Bahrain and is primarily there to provide security to Saudi Arabia.
<GentileBen> So they need us, and we need them apparently....so we turn a blind eye to the fact they execute men for being gay, and women for being raped.
<diddledan> they've got a lot of oil-money that we want
<diddledan> they're a pretty rich nation
<GentileBen> Rich in terms of natural resources....not culture.
<GentileBen> Well, Arabia in the Middle Ages was the cultural centre of the world.
<diddledan> arabia covered most of the eastern countries though
<diddledan> modern eastern countries*
<GentileBen> Whilst Europe was busy devising more elaborate ways of discriminating against Jews, the Arabs and Persians were busy doing things like inventing algebra and introducing the zero into complex math.
<mungbean> :-|
<GentileBen> Oh, they also founded modern medicine and established the scientific method.
<GentileBen> And now? They contribute nothing to world culture apart from despair.
<GentileBen> How the tables have turned.
<arsen> meanwhile, in the western world - i've mastered the art of eating a teacake using the three part method: chocolate, marshmallow, biscuit.
<arsen> think i'm going to IEEE it.
<penguin42> arsen: One of those things that takes significant practice
<mungbean> not sure which era GentileBen is referring to
<penguin42> arsen: And an M&S 16 pack
<mungbean> "Whilst Europe was busy devising more elaborate ways of discriminating against Jews," is one of the most bizarre things i've ever read
<GentileBen> mungbean, lol, do you know anything of European history?
<arsen> exactly what i have in front of me, penguin42. I find the tunnocks ones tastier, but more difficult to master due to the mallow viscosity metrics.
<GentileBen> Spanish Inquisition? Usury laws?
<penguin42> GentileBen: You missed Clifford's tower
<MartijnVdS> arsen: that sounds like something from http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies
<GentileBen> According to Wikipedia it was only 150.
<penguin42> GentileBen: To be fair I think the Spanish Inquisition was a more general set of pillage and discrimination
<mungbean> dr who keeps sticking/lagging on the google doodle game
<TheOpenSourcerer> The Western hemisphere also comes up with amazing ideas like this: http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jul2012/UltimateManwich.htm "The Manwich".
<popey> hmm, amazon just sent me Â£40.90 and I don't know why.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MOAR toys!
<Laney> oh they meant to send that to me
<Laney> just pop it on over here if you would
<popey> Too late
<arsen> speaking of amazon, need an xmas list :D
<diddledan> QI told us "who expected the spanish inquisition"
<MartijnVdS> popey: Pre-order price guarantee?
<popey> i have no idea
<popey> if I add a pound I could get GTA5 â»
<GentileBen> TheOpenSourcerer: MY MANWICH!!!
<penguin42> popey: When you say that amazon just sent it you - in what way? It landed in a gift card/amazon account?
<popey> email
<TheOpenSourcerer> Maybe they just love you popey
<penguin42> popey: Is it real - or is it spam?
<popey> real
<ali1234> it's a faaaaaaaake
<popey> Nope
<popey> redeemed it
<penguin42> popey: Had you recently bought a lot of stuff with them?
<popey> "Available Gift Certificate Balance: Â£40.90"
<popey> Upcoming Gift Certificate Expiries
<popey> Â£40.90	on 22 Nov 2023
<popey> no
<popey> in the email it says "From: Amazon"
<MartijnVdS> maybe they just like you a lot?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bye all - have a nice weekend. I am going to :-)
<popey> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dinner tonight and beer festival tomorrow
<MooDoo> later :)
<mungbean> i receive Â£100 in vouchers once
<mungbean> from a outdoor camping store
<mungbean> i sent them back as they were for a differnet mungbean
<arsen> such a common name these days
<SuperMatt> OMG I'VE FINALLY MANAGED TO WRITE MY OWN JUJU CHARMS AND RELATIONSHIP
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: congratifications!
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: What can you deploy now?
<SuperMatt> I'm now an expert
<SuperMatt> a customised version of nginx as a load balancer, and a boat load of nodejs apps
<arsen> lovely.
<SuperMatt> horizontal scaling ftw
<arsen> i wish i could use ubuntu at work :(
<SuperMatt> the best way is to become a systems administrator
<arsen> that is me. :)
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> are you forced to use debian?
<arsen> worse!
<SuperMatt> red hat?
<MartijnVdS> Centos?
<SuperMatt> CENTOS?!?!?
<arsen> partially, but also some worse!
<MartijnVdS> Gentoo?
<MartijnVdS> AIX?
<MartijnVdS> (pronounced as "aches")
<arsen> hm.
<diddledan> dont' mention Gentoo
<arsen> worse? :x
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Gentoo! Gentoo! Arch! FreeBSD!
<diddledan> I have to admin Gentoo boxen
<SuperMatt> slackware?
<SuperMatt> windows?
<SuperMatt> OSX?
<arsen> SuSE :(
<SuperMatt> oh, you think that sucks?
<diddledan> my subtle plan that seems to be working so far is: break them irrepairably and get management to agree to replace them with ubuntus
<SuperMatt> because I've been hearing really good things about opensuse v12 and above
<arsen> i have done ubuntu tests but doesnt really work with our existing infrastructure.
<arsen> oh no, this isn't opensuse. :x
<diddledan> SLES?
<SuperMatt> just regular suse?
<SuperMatt> man
<arsen> correct, SLES.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: poor man
<diddledan> ouch
<arsen> i managed to drop SLED for desktops in favour of CentOS as it was a clean swap with no real changes to anything else needed.
<diddledan> CentOS was viable as a desktop?!
<SuperMatt> oh man, the last SLES release was 4 and a half years ago
<SuperMatt> according to wikipedia
<arsen> i thin the latest SP2 we use was released not too long ago, maybe last year.
<SuperMatt> there's an SP3 now
<SuperMatt> but surely it's time to break away from service packs and do a new release?
<arsen> yeah it's SLES for a business requirement rather than any logical reason.
<diddledan> no, I think you mean. It's SLES because the boss fell for marketing
<arsen> mainly the naivety of my predicessor.
<arsen> for what we do there's only really ~3 options, one was SuSE.
<diddledan> o_O
<MartijnVdS> Oracle.
<arsen> god no.
<arsen> i managed to drop Oracle hardware within my first month :D
<MartijnVdS> they do SuSE, RHEL and their own "bulletproof linux"
<diddledan> slowloris
<arsen>  i guess i could replace the ancient NIS system and that'd allow a bit more flexibility in non-prod systems.
<diddledan> NIS shouldn't restrict you although unless it's NIS+ (proprietary oracle/sun afair) then your passwords are visible to anyone on the network (albeit the hashes thereof)
<diddledan> hmm, 40 gentoos to patch
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yum!
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. emerge!
<diddledan> I've still got 14 servers that I haven't even checked their maintainability/got them sufficiently updated that portage actually works yet, and that's since I started going through them all over a year ago
<diddledan> the joys of gentoo
<diddledan> if I didn't do it, though, it wouldn't get done
<diddledan> and then when something goes wrong, management complain that it wasn't done - I'm only one man and they keep pulling me off to do other work
<mungbean> gentoo in the workplace?
<mungbean> twisted!
<diddledan> yeah, it was set up by a sadist
<mungbean> i would sack them
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: not a masochist?
<mungbean> pure negligence
<mungbean> or a plloy for job retention
<mungbean> but selfish anyway
 * mungbean is in the server room replacing a broken switch
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: he used to be a masochist. but then he turned 30 and vowed never to do server admin work ever again. so became a sadist by handing it over to me and laughing
<mungbean> trying to hammer out a working config
<ali1234> if you select the "automatic login" option during install, how do you clear it?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: probably by fiddling with lightdm config
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or PAM
<arsen> diddledan  - its NIS, rather than NIS+ - but i found NIS a pita on ubuntu desktop, and the alternative is to break out nis into ldap/bind
<dubaco_> hej
<daftykins> hi
<arsen> hejsan
<arsen> hi2u daftykins
<daftykins> hi sir
<dubaco_> arsen: hur mÃ¥r du
<arsen> god tack (?!) ? :D
<arsen> </svenska>
<arsen> what's going on in daftykinsland
<dubaco_> arsen:  nothing much, its cold and they are whining about it /the usual
<daftykins> arsen: mmm not much here, getting cold and i've not got much work on atm so all is quiet
<arsen> sounds pretty much the same across the board. here too.
<arsen> i'm playing with graphite.
<daftykins> in a pencil? :D
<arsen> kinda, there is a 'pencil' tool to use with it i think.
<daftykins> back shortly!
<dubaco_> arsen: heard about the graphine profolactic that they are making in Sweden?
<penguin42> dubaco_: You mean that they're making in Manchester
<penguin42> dubaco_: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/stiff-competition-manchester-universty-researchers-6324185
<dubaco_> penguin42: yes based on swedish research (i dont actually know.. but most things come from sweden)
<dubaco_> swedens awesome... for women
<arsen> :D
<dubaco_> as  a women i do miss it, i mean i have value in sweden
<penguin42> dubaco_: I'm sure they'll need testers
<dubaco_> there are pleanty investment bankers who would be apt testers - i mean there are... knowlegeable about something
<arsen> so that makes you sweden's most valuable export, dubaco_ ?
<penguin42> dubaco_: Actually I can't find the actual press details, but there were a bunch of about 10 or so groups given funds for this research on better condoms, at least 2 of them proposing using graphene
<dubaco_> arsen no, sweden's most valuable export, is me
<dubaco_> oh and glÃ¶gg
<arsen> ok i'm confused. i thought that's what i said :<
<dubaco_> but economiclly i guess that may be Ikea
<arsen> glogg is good :D
<dubaco_> I just bought the ingridiants for GlÃ¶gg
<arsen> there could be lots of potential monetary value locked in you, dubaco_ - you may not yet of reached your lifetime economic peak!
<dubaco_> arsen, true, when they let me sail with SOIC this april i'll be glad - then i can get into university
<dubaco_> studying History and Scandinavian studies
<arsen> interesting. i'm all done with Uni for now.
<dubaco_> arsen: is uni done with you though?`
<arsen> probably not, they keep asking me for details about jobs
<dubaco_> where did you study?
<arsen> i'll go back for an MBA or PHD maybe.
<dubaco_> stockholm eller??
<arsen> nono, i'm English :) I pretended to learn things at Portsmouth.
<dubaco_> ah, but you speak swedish??
<arsen> not really, :D
<dubaco_> you know swedish????!
<dubaco_> **looks disapointed**
<arsen>  have a friend who does, he spent a year there. I almost did a year at Uppsala.
<arsen> sorreh :)
<dubaco_> Uppsala rocks - i like the cathederal - its awesome, and is where many swedish kings and queens lay
<dubaco_> vasa lays there does he not?
<arsen> I know there IS a cathederal, not much about the history though. The Uni is pretty impressive.
<dubaco_> i agree when i get 4000 pounds i will go study Swedish fora while there
<dubaco_> gtg
<dubaco_> pok x"
<arsen> o_O
<Rory> What vps provider has really cool IP addresses that are short?
<Rory> I'm a sucker for that sort of thing?
<Rory> s/?/
<arsen> i'm pretty sure you can't buy IP's by length.
<sara_1> hej
<sara_1> im back
<sara_1> dubaco
<arsen> good job!
<sara_1> arsen, have you noticed that on Ubuntu 13.10 there is a graphical display error on xserv, on a asus k53u
<sara_1> it really is a bit naff
<arsen> afraid i dont have that board!
<sara_1> fear not
<popey> i have a similar board
<sara_1> popey: how to use paste in non graphical mode so i can paste the output of LSPCI in f2 and have a copy of the link to paste here?
<sara_1> i mean like 'paste lspci > paste.ubuntu.com' or something like that
<sara_1> arsen: ?
<popey> pastebinit
<popey> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<popey> lshw > pastebinit
<sara_1> and then how to copy the link?
<popey> its short, just type it
<sara_1> it did it but no link came up
<sara_1> popey:
<popey> oof, sorry, lshw | pastebinit
<popey> you probably have a file called "pastebinit"
<ali1234> sara_1: did i fix your bluetooth?
<ali1234> if you want it fixing permanently, the kernel people need some information on your hardware: http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-bluetooth/msg35730.html
<sara_1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6459372
<sara_1> ali1234: no you didnt
<sara_1> ali1234: should that help?
<ali1234> i dunno, maybe it was someone else
<sara_1> yes it was me
<sara_1> But you did not fix it completly
<ali1234> oh?
<ali1234> it would have stopped working the next time the kernel updated
<sara_1> the correct question would be "did you ask me to help fix your bloothooth a while ago?" :D - grammar is so hard isn't it?
<ali1234> the patch needs to be incorporated in the upstream kernel, but they refused it, cos they need more information
<sara_1> to which my answer would be yes
<ali1234> of course if the fix didn't work anyway, then there's no point sending it upstream
<sara_1> well it was recognised but does not work now anyway
<ali1234> as i said, that's because the kernel has been updated in the past six months
<sara_1> paste.ubuntu.com/6459396 i hear you, and am trying to help you give more infos
<ali1234> sara_1: well all that is needed is sudo cat /sys/kernel/debug/usb/devices | pastebinit
<daftykins> hmm one of those little AMD APU systems
<daftykins> they're quite the underachievers, in performance terms :(
<ali1234> and then tell me if you want your name and email on the patch or not (you probably don't)
<daftykins> arsen: have you new console gen been of any interest to you? regardless of intent to purchase
<arsen> i'm undecided really, i'd love to upgrade my home PC but i cant really see any reason to. Ergo i probably won't jump on a console - as if i'm gona spend it will be going towards a new (gasp) mac air, or my PC. I like the look of the PS4 tho.
<ali1234> wow. if you run "lightdm --test-mode" normally it just loops the login screen over and over
<ali1234> but if you have lightdm configured for auto login you get a full nested desktop session
<SuperMatt> grrr
<ali1234> which is actually quite handy
<SuperMatt> the most annoying this about losing weight is now my suit is too big :(
<SuperMatt> *thing
<ali1234> wear loads of jumpers?
<daftykins> arsen: mmm, i looked at upgrading my desktop a bit ago - it'd be Â£800 odd to move this c2q up to a decent i7 - just no reason to really
<daftykins> i love getting to setup other peoples systems so i can see just how pointless it'd be :D
<arsen> pretty much
<arsen> i've got a 5.2ghz 6 core box under my desk, with some SSDs and 64gig of ram
<arsen> makes doing anything to my home PC less exciting.
<arsen> actually i lie, its 5.1 at the moment.
<daftykins> ^_^
<arsen> i seem to be getting AWS invoices, i think i need to remove some data off the storage thing. not cool.
<daftykins> hmm the mirrors don't seem to be performing so well
<daftykins> i just used the software sources prog to auto select mirror - got given this funky as29550.net one
<daftykins> it gave me 2MB/sec vs. gg.archive...'s 2Mb
<Azelphur> Has anyone ever bought a robotic vacuum cleaner (roomba type thing) and got any recommendations? thinking of picking one up for my flat as it's all hardwood and has no steps, I imagine a robot would make short work of it.
<diddledan> shauno has robosuck
<Azelphur> fun :)
<daftykins> Azelphur in his ongoing pursuit of never wanting to leave his seat! :)
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> daftykins: and in the meantime, I bought a neptune pine, take my computer with me
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> what's that sir?
<Azelphur> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neptune/neptune-pine-smartwatch-reinvented
<Azelphur> I got the early backer deal
<diddledan> so it's a phone that you wear on your wrist?
<Azelphur> diddledan: pretty much
<Azelphur> I plan to use it as a companion device
<penguin42> Azelphur: Looks a bit bug
<penguin42> big
<Azelphur> penguin42: wuss, I remember carrying around my XPS M1730.
<diddledan> 1.2GHz dual-core? in a watch?
<diddledan> wow
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, impressive
<shauno> I like my roomba.  I don't think it does as good a job as an actual vacuum - but it does a better job than me
<diddledan> that's gonna eat flatteries for, well, a snack
<penguin42> diddledan: That's pretty low end for a lot of the android kit these days; the real prob is that the watch doesn't have the room for a large battery
<daftykins> hrmm i felt like answering a simple askubuntu.com question, so i logged into my launchpad account but now when i'm trying to click on 'log in with launchpad' i'm getting told "No OpenID endpoint found" ?
<diddledan> 2.4inches should be enough for anyone
<diddledan> </bill>
<Azelphur> well i plan to use it as a companion device so most features will be off
<shauno> my only complaint (I've had it for 9 months?) is that it has no sense of direction.  it doesn't do a great job of finding its way home if the base station is in a different room
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan> shauno: that's why you need to build your own out of a raspberry pi. call it the piSuck
<shauno> I've seen something close to that done before.  it has a serial port 'exposed' (under the plastic), so mounting a new brain and feeding it directions is easier than you'd expect
<daftykins> nevermind i solved it - you use your launchpad ID not your 'username'
<Azelphur> fun :)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Their back facing camera is a bit weird - I think the Galaxy gear puts a camera on the wriststrap but that means you can't put an arbitrary strap on it
<diddledan> what's the difference between launchpad id and username?
<diddledan> I never knew there were two things
<Azelphur> penguin42: has front and rear
<Azelphur> the idea is that you can abuse it as a gopro with extra features
<Azelphur> or use the front camera for video calling
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh but the rear is facing your wrist most of the time
<Azelphur> penguin42: not if you're abusing it as a gopro
<shauno> oh, the other (roomba) oddity is that precisely one error message is verbalized as a recorded voice.  (error: move roomba to a new location).  everything else is communicated by song (?!)
<Azelphur> but yea, I won't make much use of the rear camera, or the gps, or a host of the other features
<Azelphur> but Â£120 ain't bad for such a versatile device
<Azelphur> shauno: yay music
<Azelphur> shauno: any specific roomba to get / models to avoid?
<diddledan> shauno: it'ld be better if it was by dance
<shauno> ie, happy song when it starts, finale when it finds the base station, sad song when it pushes the kitchen door shut and then can't find a way out
<diddledan> accompanied by song if need be
<diddledan> the funeral durge
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<shauno> I've got a 521, which was about the cheapest one I could find at the time.  the only reason I'd really get anything more would be to have a built-in timer  (so you can schedule it to run while you're not home)
<diddledan> you leave it at home unattended?
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irobot-Roomba-5545-/121217167174?pt=UK_Vacuum_Cleaners&hash=item1c391b2f46 might nab this one?
<diddledan> that's probably classed as abuse by the RSPCA
<diddledan> shauno: do you at least leave a little water?
<Azelphur> shauno: any comments on that one^ :)
<shauno> was just looking .. I don't understand their numbering scheme at all :)
<Azelphur> shauno: me either, apparently it's the same as a Domotec DVU00018
<Azelphur> according to some forum post
<diddledan> google docs/drive ftw
<diddledan> I've just put in a load of conditional formatting and data validation on a spreadsheet that lists tasks and their status for various servers
<diddledan> it looks funky now
<diddledan> colours everywhere
<diddledan> up the wazzoo, so to speak
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ah, didn't know gDocs supports conditional formatting now
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: that reminds me of.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxAoxwYyxE
<daftykins> he had long hair :O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it was late 2005 (even though the video claims it was uploaded in '08) :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: this is UDS-Montreal, where Dapper Drake was thought out
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero
<daftykins> wowzer!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: this was in Mataro (near Barcelona), in December 2004: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157622499451161/
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: just after Warty released
<mungbean> how can i bulk edit mp3tags when lookup dont work, but instead i want to write the file/folder names instead as mp3 tags?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I'd use picard
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if you can't look it up with that, it doesn't exist :P
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that or exfalso
<MartijnVdS> (which can tag files manually AND rename files based on tags)
<mungbean> its an audiobook
<mungbean> i was trying picard, i'll try exfalso, ta
<mungbean> the only apple device in my house is an accidental purchase of 1st gen ipod nano
<mungbean> doesn't allow file/folder structure
<mungbean> unless rockbox works on it :P
<mungbean> oh...
<mungbean> Apple: iPod 1g through 5.5g, iPod Mini, iPod Nano 1g
<daftykins> hehe
 * penguin42 does have a Nano he was given, and some ~25 year old PPC Macs
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i had a PPC iMac which hard locked when you plugged in a USB mass storage device
<penguin42> USB? Pah modern
<MartijnVdS> ADB is where it's at
<penguin42> These are PowerMac 6100 and 7200's - yeh ADB
<daftykins> ADB?
<daftykins> android jobby?
<daftykins> 0o
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: apple desktop bus
<penguin42> apple desktop bus I think
<diddledan> emac
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> that's where it's at
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Desktop_Bus
<daftykins> oh i'm certainly no fan of USB (:
<diddledan> apple stuff always used to use scsi in the 90s
<MartijnVdS> "No machines being built today use ADB for device interconnection, but up to February 2005, PowerBooks and iBooks still used the ADB protocol in the internal interface with the built-in keyboard and touchpad. "
<penguin42> why? USB has been the single best thing to happen in computers for a long long time
<diddledan> everything was scsi even scanners
<penguin42> even printers
<penguin42> diddledan: A lot of older scanners were SCSI, some of the parallel scanners are scsi with a parallel-scsi bridge in
<daftykins> oh it's certainly had benefits, but it also had many frustrating elements from inception
<daftykins> i was happy on my PS/2 peripherals for quite some time :D
<penguin42> really? I think all the frustrations have been shitty USB hubs with broken PSUs
<mungbean> so hopefully ipon nano rockboxed should work like anyway normal mp3 player?
<daftykins> ugh hubs ;)
<daftykins> classic case of users trying to connect too many things at once
<diddledan> in the windows 95 days you had to do weird driver hoop-jumping because it wouldn't let you plug an unknown device into the system and _then_ install the driver. you had to install the driver first
<daftykins> but yeah the whole USB master/slave relationship of old was quite frustrating
<diddledan> usb*
<diddledan> of course linux was only a baby back then
<penguin42> Linux was good fun back then
<diddledan> I didn't really understand what was what in linux-land around that era
<mungbean> when?
<diddledan> I tried recompiling the kernel, but truth be told I didn't have a clue what I was doing or why other than "sound don't work and this document says that recompiling the kenrel is required to make it work" <-- I didn't understand what a kernel was even
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> mungbean: mid90s
<daftykins> things certainly got a lot easier once we had home routers sharing broadband connections
<daftykins> (to try out different OSs)
<mungbean> linux was most fun when ubunt was just released, although i'd been using it for a few years before then, ubuntu made it fun where redhat was dull
<mungbean> (on the desktop)
<daftykins> my client got a fully typed up snail mail letter from Adobe regarding the hack on them today
<diddledan> daftykins: that's somewhat delayed
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> it says they decrypted some card details using their systems, i didn't realise that
<daftykins> perhaps a new bank card should be requested
<Myrtti> daftykins: Finnish banks have cancelled cards
<daftykins> Myrtti: wowzer
<ali1234> popey: i got my wiped EFS fixed at unlocksamsungonline.com - it was really dodgy and i had to send some money on paypal, but it worked
<ali1234> and also had to install some very dodgy software on a windows computer
<ali1234> but hey it's cheaper than a new phone
<daftykins> is that when you wipe something when you're not ready?
<ali1234> on samsung phones the IMEI is stored in protected flash
<ali1234> it's possible to wipe it accidentally
<ali1234> but you can't restore it, because then you'd be able to change the IMEI, which is illegal
<ali1234> but some guy in .nl hacked the phone to be able to do this, but to use his software you have to buy a code from him
<diddledan> you can wipe it but you can't write to it? how can you wipe it if you can't write?
<ali1234> diddledan: there is a checksum. if the checksum doesn't match, he phone erases the EFS
<diddledan> aha
<ali1234> you can write the checksum but not the EFS
<penguin42> ali1234: Sounds like someone stored the checksum in the wrong place
<ali1234> i dunno how mine got wiped, other than i was flashing custom roms
<penguin42> ali1234: What was that on?
<ali1234> but yeah it's pretty crappy on samsung's part to make it breakable but not fixable
<ali1234> this was on a samsung galaxy
<ali1234> anyway if you wipe the EFS you get a default IMEI, which works on some networks and not others. and if you ring up for support they get really freaked out because changing the IMEI on a phone is highly illegal
<ali1234> even if you just want to put it back to how it was
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yip pretty sure i've seen lots of big fat cautions beside every Samsung flashing forum thread on the big phone site i can't remember the name of right now
<diddledan> lol, I'd like to hear that conversation
<ali1234> yeah it was pretty funny because i didn't know what happened until i rang up support
<ali1234> so i told them the IMEI of my phone and they were like "that's not a valid IMEI, you must have look ed at the wrong number"
<ali1234> then they checked their logs and they were like "that's impossible"
<diddledan> and this is why logging even on enterprise scale is important
<ali1234> anyway i just wanted to report that even though that website looks incredibly dodgy, i have successfully used it to repair my phone
<diddledan> it's pretty decent that you managed to get them to look up logs - it can't have been an average phone monkey
<ali1234> it was t-mobile, after they merged with orange but before they turned into EE
<penguin42> ali1234: Presumably now your phone is also being used to route international terrorist-arms-trading-porn-pirated DVDs around the world as well, but at least he's restored the IMEI
<diddledan> \o/
<ali1234> penguin42: who knows? i reflashed to cyanogenmod after backing up the fixed EFS
<diddledan> speaking of which, where do I buy the terrorist-arms-trading-porn-pirated dvds other than in china?
<ali1234> though i'm not sure what good the backup is, if you can't write it. but i havent had any problems since then
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> hmm.. decisions decisions. despicable me 1 + 2. do I buy on itunes or googley playdoh?
<penguin42> or amazon?
<diddledan> there's a whopping Â£0.99 difference in cost between the two with apple coming out cheaper
<daftykins> i watched both of those recently
<daftykins> i'm a bit of a sucker for those kiddy films
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah, they look awesome. I want a minion or three
<daftykins> dunno, it's unclear if they need feeding
<diddledan> ba ba ba. ba na nana
<diddledan> for those that don't know the banana song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qsH_LFRr6k
<Rory> There's a button here on my laptop and I have no idea what it does
<diddledan> Rory: DON'T PUSH IT!!!!!1!!
<ali1234> it's probably the 1 touch recovery
<Rory> It's near my volume keys
<diddledan> -_-
<daftykins> that narrows it down
<diddledan> does one-touch recovery fix my ubuntu for me?
<ali1234> if you put ubuntu in the recover partition, sure
<ali1234> it's basically just a dedicated boot menu button instead of pressing F2 or whatever
<diddledan> they should put disclaimers on their manuals about it only recovering if you haven't deleted the "unknown partition"
<Rory> It is a shell script that Googles the last error message, goes to the first Stack Exchange result, and runs any bash commands written in the top answer
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> pretty much what i do all day ^
<Rory> Fixes 99% of #ubuntu issues
<diddledan> wait, did I miss a step
<diddledan> how is a button near the volume keys a shell script that google the last error message, goes to the firsts stack exch...
<Rory> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
<diddledan> I fail to understand the punch line
<Rory> Well ali1234 said it was the 1-touch-recovery
<Rory> And I thought what a 1-touch-recovery for ubuntu would look like, in the context of "fix my thing that's broke"
<daftykins> judging by my introduction to askubuntu.com questions earlier - it may take many forms
<Rory> I really want to know what this is
<Rory> I have volume mute, then 2 volume keys, then mic mute, then this weird button which is elongated and thin
<stgraber> Rory: is that on a thinkpad?
<Rory> It's not a programmable macro key or anything; this is a Thinkpad
<daftykins> can you take a pic?
<daftykins> or link to a pic
<stgraber> Rory: ok, so that's the thinkvantage button
<Rory> ...for real?
<Rory> That is a thing?
<stgraber> yep
<penguin42> the blue lozenge
<Rory> I thought it might have been to do with the switchable graphics
<stgraber> penguin42: blue in older thinkpads, now just black on newer ones
<stgraber> Rory: so on Ubuntu it won't do anything by default but you can bind it just like any other key. Here I use it as a shortcut to compiz's expose mode (usually win+e)
<Rory> Also there's an upward-facing transparent porthole in between the touchpad and the fingerprint reader. It looks like a second webcam of some kind, but I can't think of a single use-case for that
<stgraber> Rory: it's also used by some thinkpads as the interrupt key for their firmware (to get you into some kind of menu from which you can choose to enter the firmware menu or boot menu or some recovery options)
<Rory> stgraber: Fair enough; my model uses the Return key
<Rory> "Press Enter to interrupt normal boot..." it's the smoothest way of doing it I've ever seen
<Rory> Then you have time to see what is the bios, what is the boot menu, and whatever else
<Rory> Rather than ohcrap-ohgod is it f2 or del or what? Oh it's gone. Ctrl-alt-del... damn I missed Grub as well. Alt+SysReq+B
<penguin42> stgraber: Oh, it was obviously too hard for them to keep to the nice obvious separate coloured button
<popey> ali1234: will pass that on, thanks
 * popey installed CM7 on an HTC Hero for the lols
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i'm not hugely fond of what KitKat has changed for me thus far
<daftykins> but ah well - i shall deal with it
<shauno> mathematica on the pi looks interesting .. just not sure what for yet
<penguin42> shauno: So that you can dispay odd parabolic surfaces on random displays?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-23
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, this is one way to get rid of your stash of bitcoins: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/22/when_hot_cash_meets_a_vacuum_virgin_galactic_takes_bitcoin/
<Azelphur> penguin42: sadly, don't have enough BTC for that :(
<Azelphur> 327.7 BTC D:
<penguin42> Azelphur: You can see whether they'll let you pay for a train fare then
<Azelphur> hehe
<Administrator_> hi, i'm currently using windows OS and i want to installed linux too. but havw low spec machine. the main purpose for installing linux OS is that i want browsing speed atleast double. is this possible by installing linux and incase Yes then which? thanks.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/feb/04/benedict-cumberbatch-alan-turing
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<brobostigon> dr who and the daleks, ch5. Dr Who the HUMAN.
<dwatkins> hehe, not sure I'd consider that canon, but it's entertaining - even has Roy Castle in it, iirc.
<brobostigon> other than him being human, and various references being different, like hows refers to tardis, not the tardis. and tardis's design being different, and there being no reference to the time lords.
<dwatkins> a copycat!
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007zv0y <- never seen that one before
<Constaaa> hey guys, can any one lend a hand with a problem i have with my gl dock ?
<gordonjcp> !ask | Constaaa
<lubotu3> Constaaa: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Constaaa> okay, well does anybody know how to get rid of the black box which surrounds my GL dock ? i cant seem to get rid of it
<gordonjcp> is compositing enabled?
<Constaaa> yes it is, but ive heard there is better docks that i can use
<Constaaa> how do you enable compositing ?
<knightwise> hey everyone $
<knightwise> anyone know anything about ampache ? I would like to change the default port of the web interface to something else
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: ampache? what's that?
<knightwise> Ampache .. web based music streaming server
<knightwise> very well known
<MartijnVdS> ah.. it seems to just be a set of php scripts?
<MartijnVdS> can't you just change the port of the webserver those scripts run on?
<knightwise> ampache has its own webserver
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I've switched to Google play music
<knightwise> thats the problem
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: in that case.. no idea
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: i have about 15000 songs I exported out of iTunes, it was a little much to shove up to google music.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I have 12k songs imported into Google Music :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it doesn't upload songs it can match to "remote copies", and I have 100/100 fibre for the rest ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: anyway.. ampache port should be easy to  set, shouldn't it?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: apparently it's in ampache.cfg.php?
<knightwise> let me check
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: ah! it seems to be using Apache still, to run its (PHP) code on?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: just change the port for Apache then?
<MartijnVdS> or add one, and set up an ampache vhost
<knightwise> holdon , see if I can get that working
<knightwise> because ther is an ampache.cfg.php in the home directory and another one in the var/www directory
<knightwise> ok , i created a virtual host in apache and pointed it to /var/www/ampache
<mungbean> rockbox on the ipod nano is awesome
<mungbean> my wife is ecstatic that i've unappled the crazy ipod
<popey> â»
<popey> which generation of ipod nano is that?
<mungbean> 1g
<mungbean> now she can just view files and folders view
<mungbean> and copy stuff using nautilus
<popey> nice
<mungbean> audiobooks on the apple database view was a nightmare if mp3tags weren't there
<mungbean> also the themes are v nice
<mungbean> i'm happy too because she was demanding a better mp3 player
<mungbean> and that means Â£Â£
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Gadgets.4/SoundScience.502/QSBUSB/SoundScience_QSB_-_30W_USB_Desktop_Speakers_with_NXT_DyadUSB_Technology_Rated_5_5_by_What_HiFi.12765.html
<mungbean> 80% off today
<popey> heh, just had an email read out by Liza Tarbuck on Radio 2 â»
<popey> got called "poppy" then she realised and apologised â»
<penguin42> hehe
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Dead SSD in workstation meant installing onto a fresh SSD. Thought I'd give 13.10 a go. Works fine as long as I don't install nvidia-current. Doing so results in (after a reboot) a blank screen and the mouse as the X pointer. Also, f1 - f6 all show a blinking cursor but no ability to login. Anybody else seen this happen?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's what usually happens when your 3d acceleration isn't working, but unity failed to detect this so the fallback wasn't used
<bigcalm> Do you know if there's a fix, or is a case of don't use the binary driver?
 * penguin42 would try uninstalling the nvidia-current
<penguin42> bigcalm: Out of interest, how did the SSD die?
<bigcalm> penguin42: without a means to login to the machine, I can't uninstall
<bigcalm> penguin42: drive was no longer visible to the BIOS. Tried it in 3 machines and via a USB interface
<DJones> Its 19:49, 60 second countdown to Day of the Doctor \o/
<bigcalm> Have requested an RMA from OCZ
<penguin42> bigcalm: Hmm you should be able to pass something on the command line to tell it not even start any GUI, did the fallback option work?
<bigcalm> As above, booting gives me a black screen with the X pointer. Nothing else appears. ctrl+alt+f1-6 gives me a blinking cursor and nothing else
<penguin42> bigcalm: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging   see the boot problems section
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
 * bigcalm plays a little but more of zelda for a while
<penguin42> bigcalm: But if you don't get anywhere with that then a boot cd, mount and chroot and remove the package
<directhex> 3d!
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-24
<Z1efin> I need help with Nvidia Drivers for Ubuntu 13 is this a good room for this?
<directhex> yes, 7:45 on a sunday morning is a great time to carcth UK people!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
 * brobostigon had a spectacular idea in a halfasleep state this morning, he envisaged his own shop on second-lif
<MartijnVdS> is second life still going then?
<brobostigon> yes.
<Rory> Hey, does anyone read Linux Format in here? They did a roundup either last issue or the one before, of RSS readers, and I can't remember the winner (it wasn't Feedly)
<popey> brobostigon: welcome to 5 years ago
<brobostigon> popey: certainly, it is a bad idea.
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<Neoti> Anybody in here from around nottinghamshire and who has a CB Radio ?
<gordonjcp> Neoti: that seems an oddly specific request
 * gordonjcp does not have a CB radio but does have a lot of radio equipment
<Neoti> gordonjcp: i just want to do a radio check thats all ...
<gordonjcp> Neoti: no-one on Ch. 19?
<Neoti> AM or FM, low mid or hi ? lol...
<gordonjcp> well both 27/81 and CEPT require FM
<Neoti> well i have a superstart 120 fm. i am on channel 19 hi
<gordonjcp> ooo
<gordonjcp> if conditions are up you might hit one of the websdr sites
<Neoti> nope no one out there...
<gordonjcp> if you can hear skip from Holland you might be able to hit the WebSDR at Twente
<gordonjcp> 7MHz aside, I'm not that into all this close-to-audio stuff
 * MartijnVdS just ordered one of those Realtek-chipset DVB sticks
<MartijnVdS> to play with rtl-sdr
<penguin42> yeh they're kind of fun
<gordonjcp> yeah
<MartijnVdS> the Twente one is also great -- you can see so many cool stuff on the lower bands
<MartijnVdS> much*
<gordonjcp> and what's amazing is not only can you use them as a powerful low-VHF-to-low-microwave SDR, you can use them to watch telly too
<MartijnVdS> DCF-77, some number channels (morse mostly)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: and listen to DAB radio, apparently
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm going to toss some photons around later if you want to have a listen
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Well, the rtl-sdr is still in China atm, I really *just* ordered it a few hours ago
<MartijnVdS> but I might give websdr a go
<penguin42> note that the DVB-t telly stuff is a separate path; it's not done by the SDR data over the USB, the capture bandwidth isn't high enough for that - they have a demod for that
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, they can only get 3MHz wide from the SDR, and DVB channels are 8MHz wide
<gordonjcp> aha
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> the SDR stuff is done using what is effectively a test mode
<MartijnVdS> lots of radio stations on the utwente websdr sound like the TARDIS or the alien probe from Empire Strikes Back
<MartijnVdS> whoa.. bolivian radio stations
<MartijnVdS> .. and a radio station that sounds like the Black Mesa Research Facility
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: there are a lot of funny digital modes
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: interestingly if you zoom in on some OFDM modes you can see they're more-or-less flat in frequency response
<gordonjcp> and then you see diagonal dark bands moving, which is because of phasing from multipath reception
<MartijnVdS> I have a Wi-Spy, and I see that on the wifi bands I think
<MartijnVdS> diagonal bands
<MartijnVdS> I think that might be some kind of part of the 802.11 protocols though
<MartijnVdS> I know way too little about this.. where/how do I start learning more? :)
<SuperEngineer> Impressed - with only 2GB mmeory & a low end graphics card - just played Half Life on Steam with 8 other programs still open.  Didn't even notice.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Looking, Half Life was originally released in '98 so that was probably high end then
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<Azelphur> Anyone know where I might get a copy of a newspaper printed in 2012?
<penguin42> the newspaper publishers? A library?
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: local library?
<Azelphur> was hoping for something online if possible
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: snap!
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: that might cost you a subscrion to particular paper - if they allow archive access
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: yea, the only archive I've found for this paper is dated 1912 and before
<Azelphur> it's the Kentish Express Ashford edition that I'm after
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: write to them / send them a usb stick & beg?
<Azelphur> yea guess so
<penguin42> oh one of the more major papers then....
<ali1234> go to library and photocopy it
<Azelphur> yea, seems like a library job for tomorrow :)
<penguin42> hth do you tell firefox to stop looping gifs ?
 * penguin42 has had a Mantis eating a fish in a loop for hours
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:  errrmmmm... close firefox?   ;)
<SuperEngineer> [sorry - couldn't resist]
<penguin42> it's just one thing in my G+ feed
<mungbean> bitcoins are $800 now?
<mungbean> thought they were $200 last week
<mungbean> crazy bubble time
<Azelphur> mungbean: :)
<Azelphur> mungbean: this is /after/ the bubble. This is the new stable price now I reckon.
<Azelphur> it was $1000+ in the bubble
<mungbean> bubbles first don't they?
<mungbean> burst
<Azelphur> it did burst
<Azelphur> it dropped to $400 then normalised at $800
<mungbean> yeah, bursting = $20 again
<mungbean> in my book
<Azelphur> you ain't gonna see $20 again.
<Azelphur> no way :)
<mungbean> thats how bubbles happen
<mungbean> thats what they say just before a stock market crash
<Azelphur> mungbean: Bitcoin is a successful venture, I see no burst nor any reason that it would burst.
<mungbean> ^bitcoin^stock market
<mungbean> something causes collapse in confidence
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> mungbean: that already happened in the past, Bitcoin went to <$1
<Azelphur> and then it picked back up again
<mungbean> since bc isn't underwriten by anything like gold, it can crash to $0
<mungbean> price starts dropping, people panic, thenm its a crace to the bottom
<penguin42> mungbean: But the reasons for buying/selling gold have very little to do with actual using or posessing it
<penguin42> mungbean: There's a lot of unease about the actual stocks of these precious metals
<Azelphur> mungbean: been there done that, it came back up again.
<mungbean> ok lets talk pork bellies instead
<mungbean> mmm bacon
<penguin42> mungbean: OK, lets talk guar gum - what influences the price of guar gum?
<mungbean> supply and demand
<mungbean> demand outstrips supply then price ++
<mungbean> the inherent usefulness of the product
<Azelphur> mungbean: I have my money where my mouth is with bitcoin, so we'll see ;)
<penguin42> mungbean: Right, so you get something really random happen - like it starts being used by frackers (really) and it shoots through the roof, no one predicted it and then who knows it might stop being used
<penguin42> mungbean: That's more real - it's actual stocks of the stuff but in principal could be very unpredictable
<mungbean> but is underwritten by more stable markets though too right?
<penguin42> mungbean: That I don't know, but I think so
<mungbean> ice cream
<mungbean> bc are pure speculation, likethe doctom bubble
<mungbean> not to say you can't make money on the rising tide
<mungbean> i always think of tulip mania at this point
<penguin42> mungbean: But I think the metal markets aren't necessarily much better than tulip mania, especially for gold which doesn't have an intrinsic use
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: don't let the ISS hear that - they might disagree somewhat
<penguin42> ISS? (Not space station....)
<SuperEngineer> yup
<penguin42> does it use much gold?
<SuperEngineer> ...any satellite or spoaceman also thinks it has a rather intrisic use - as so many earthbound bits of kit
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: they use loads of the stuff
<penguin42> why?
<SuperEngineer> [so does a mobilee phone btw  - but to a *much* lesser extent]
<SuperEngineer> spacemen / space instruments  they use it for protection - phones use it for vconnections
<SuperEngineer> I use it to make me pretty ;)
<dvrr> how to connect openvpn  windows client with certificates please help me
<dvrr> popey
 * mungbean has a gold tooth
<penguin42> dvrr: my experience with vpns (which is very out of date and I can't remember much) is that you're probably best finding a relaxent before you start
<mungbean> its a very non reactive metal
<SuperEngineer> mungbean - the only thing that reacts with gold are stooopid "we buy old gold & nick your money" sites
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: also, aqua regia
<MartijnVdS> (don't drink that)
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer, but he left I guess
<bigcalm> To re-ask a question I posted to twitter: Where do you keep your private GPG keys in case your SSD dies?
<penguin42> on a separate encrypted device?
<MartijnVdS> hmm QR code 8-)
<daftykins> on a piece of paper!
<daftykins> apparently most SSDs die in read only states though
<daftykins> but yeah wouldn't rely on that :D
<bigcalm> I'd love to get the data off of my dead SSD. But I have managed to install 13.10 onto a smaller, spare, SSD so that I can continue working
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: SSDs have weird half-erased fail states that happen when a block becomes unwriteable
<daftykins> my intel X25-M G2 actually would BSOD win7 when it tried to read/write a bad sector that developed - i had to secure erase the drive to overcome it
<penguin42> daftykins: But bigcalm's is the 2nd case I've heard of where the drive just died
<bigcalm> The drive longer appears as a drive to any device it is connected to :(
<bigcalm> +no
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> controller fail
<AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923 less than Â£1000 to go :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: \o/
 * MartijnVdS needs to get an HDMI-to-DVI cable.. I can't use my Pi atm :(
<bigcalm> AlanBell: yay
<penguin42> AlanBell: How did you come across that book of pictures of delapitaed places?
<bigcalm> They are exceedingly cheep cables now: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-HDMI-Cable-Gold-Metre/dp/B000GDI6FC
<daftykins> bigcalm: what type is said dead SSD?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, but shipping to not-UK is Â£expensive
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Does your country not have a similar emporium of cheapo electronic bits?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so I'm better of getting some AmazonBasics cables with some other items (to get to free shipping)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: we have "allekabels.nl", which is cheap but not *that* cheap
<AlanBell> penguin42: #surrey channel on irc.lug.org.uk
<MartijnVdS> also, AmazonBasics cables are Â£3,99
<MartijnVdS> not bad imho
<penguin42> AlanBell: Ah right, I did have someone of the same name who used to work for me for a few years and I seem to remember he was a good photographer as well
<bigcalm> daftykins: OCZ vertex 120GB. I've had 3 OCZ drives and this is the newest one. So I don't hate the brand yet :)
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> original generation Vertex? think there were at least 4+
<bigcalm> s/I've had/I have
<bigcalm> Ug, bought in Jan last year
<bigcalm> OCZ Agility 3 SATA III Solid State Drive 120GB
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Amazon sells cables by weight, apparently: http://i.imgur.com/MHT1RfB.png
<penguin42> nice
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: give me a kilo of your finest HDMIs please, grocer
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: --> Amazon
<daftykins> ;)
<maya-> :D
<maya-> Hi nice peoples! I have a question. I have an HFS+ HDD in Ubuntu, and Iâd like to change the permissions to I can read and write to it.  I already removed journaling. Any tips? :D
<MartijnVdS> No idea.. I've found NTFS to be the best "shared" FS between Linux en MacOS
<maya-> Iâm not looking to share, per se.
<maya-> I just need write access. :D
<daftykins> probably best to avoid HFS+ then
<daftykins> from what i heard the other day it's quite flaky
<Fujio> hi
<daftykins> hello
<popey> hmm, want to root my nexus 7
<daftykins> why-for?
<popey> to use something that requires it
<daftykins> ah-har
<popey> doesnt seem straightforward
<daftykins> they don't have easily unlockable bootloaders on those things?
<ali1234> unlocking the bootloader isn't the same as rooting
<daftykins> i know, but often it can be a helpful first step
<ali1234> it is part of the process though
<Fujio> hi popey
<Fujio> can you run ubuntu on a nexus7?
<popey> Fujio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<Fujio> thanks
<popey> found windows tools to root it, but having difficulty finding a nice easy linux way
<ali1234> rooting typically means unlocking the bootloader and flashing a custom kernel
<ali1234> i assume you've already done the former
<Azelphur> ali1234: it does?
<ali1234> for the latter, just find what kernel image that tool uses and flash it however you'd normally flash
<ali1234> Azelphur: on nexus stuff it does
<Azelphur> the vast majority of the time people just flash the SU binaries and superuser apk and stick with the stock firmware / kernels o.O
<Azelphur> even more so on the nexus
<ali1234> how do you "flash" the SU binary if you don't already have root?
<popey> yeah, saw some instructions which is to install an su binary via a modded recovery
<popey> ali1234: custom recovery
<ali1234> right, modded recovery - which is a kernel image + initrd
<ali1234> so you flash that the same way you'd flash an ubuntu touch image, for example
<ali1234> then once you've got a modded recovery you can do whatever you want :)
<spiritech> hi. i am running this command "sudo echo "/dev/sdb1 /media/sdb1 ext4" >> /etc/fstab" i use it as part of an install script. however it says permission denied. how can i run this command as the correct user?
<directhex> spiritech, do you want to know why it doesn't work as-is, or just the answer?
<spiritech> an answer would be ok. though i dont mind both if you have the time.
<spiritech> i always thought sudo gave root perms.
<directhex> pipe to tee. "echo foo | sudo tee /some/file"
<directhex> sudo does. but you're sudoing the "echo" command. the redirect, i.e. the >>, is being done by the parent bash shell, which is not sudo'd
<spiritech> so echo "kagfkasf" | sudo tee /etc/fstab
<directhex> well, "kagfkasf" isn't a valid fstab entry. but yes.
<spiritech> wes.
<spiritech> i mean yessss
<spiritech> i have necer used tee before.
<spiritech> i assume tee reads STDOUT
<spiritech> and writes to destination
<directhex> that's exactly what it does
<directhex>        tee - read from standard input and write to standard output and files
<spiritech> so if there is a break in standard input do i need "" or does it do that automatically?
<directhex> test it out into a safe file in /tmp
<spiritech> ok. i will have a play. ty for your help.
<spiritech> also i had probs with usb installer for 13.10 amd 64 desktop iso. i could make the start up usb. when i booted it would not install. had to use the mini.iso in the end.
<spiritech> all good now tho.
<ali1234> spiritech: you should be careful about mounting things manually in /media
<ali1234> the standard is now to mount things under /media/<username>/
<spiritech> ali1234. i am the only user. and it keeps my scripts more compact. can it cause any serious problems?
<ali1234> probably not, unless your username is sdb1
<spiritech> well thats ok then
<spiritech> not sure why media needs a username. surely if its going to be mounted. well, it will be mounted and accessible by the current user.
<ali1234> for multiuser systems
<spiritech> oh. so certain drives are accessible by cerain users.
<spiritech> surely that could be done with group permissions./
<spiritech> or maybe not.
<ali1234> well, you presumably don't want other users to see you've mounted /media/goatpron
<spiritech> yes. whatever goatpron is.
<spiritech> lol
<ali1234> though i suppose they can still see it on the mountlist
<ali1234> i don't really know what the real reasoning is
<penguin42> ali1234: If it was a FAT partition it wouldn't have any permissions and probably anyone can read it?
<ali1234> you can mount it with umask to fix that one
<ali1234> though just making private user mount dirs is probably the easiest way
<penguin42> true, I guess it means you don't get name clashes between different users
<spiritech> so if i log in as a different user. say blobtech. and went to /media/...    i would not be able to see the other user list/folders. is that right.
<spiritech> ?
<penguin42> spiritech: I think that's the idea, and you could both plug in a thumb drive labelled as 'pictures'
<spiritech> or would they be visible and not be able to enter them?
<penguin42> not sure
<ali1234> drwxr-x---+ 2 root root 4096 Nov 20 17:51 /media/al
<penguin42> ooh with acls for extra fun
<ali1234> that's the +?
<penguin42> it's got some extra attributes on
<penguin42> ok that's curious, my trusty box doesn't have /run/media or /media/dg
<spiritech> surely the best way to do this would be to mount all drives in media, then set user permissions for each drive. rather than setting up a mount list to mount drives to certain users?
<penguin42> spiritech: what happens if both of you wanted to mount say the same remote fileserver or something like that - it actually gets quite tricky depending  on the filesystem involved to maintaint aht type of permissions
<spiritech> are we talking about two users, using at the same time. ;)
<penguin42> yes
<penguin42> or lock screen and then switch users
<spiritech> oh. i see. i was assuming two users at separate times.
<spiritech> so what your saying is its easier to have user mount points rather than setting user perms for each drive etc.
<penguin42> nod
<spiritech> so all your stuff is inhere    yours/....... and all my stuff is in here     mine/..........
<penguin42> nod
<spiritech> and its etc/fstab's duty to control where these things get mounted/ or drives anyway?
<penguin42> no, it's udisks2 these days that does it
<penguin42> udisks hand;es things like mounting a usb drive you just plug in
<spiritech> it could be done with fstab?
<penguin42> fstab can't deal with anything dynamic
<spiritech> static stuff tho?
<spiritech> liek int hdd
<penguin42> oh yeh you can still mount stuff using fstab where ever you like
<spiritech> also i have noticed that if i plug in my 16gb corsair usb stick it is assigned sdc1. if i remove it then plug in my corsair 8gb usb stick it is assigned the same device name sdc1. is this normal?
<spiritech> so both get assigned /dev/sdc1 when plugged in separately.
<spiritech> this is annoying if i want to rsync stuuf on a device level.
<penguin42> spiritech: You can never trust the order of /dev/sd*
<penguin42> spiritech: things like /dev/disk/by-label and /dev/disk/by-id etc are much safer these days
<spiritech> ok. well i use device name at the moment.
<penguin42> spiritech: OK, don't blame us when you over write the wrong one!
<spiritech> no. i mean the format name.
<penguin42> what do you mean by format name?
<spiritech> like /media/username/corsair8gb
<penguin42> ah right yes, much safer
<spiritech> the name you give the device when you format it.
<spiritech> i just always wondered if you could do it the /dev/sdc1 way. tho obviously not.
<spiritech> i assume the system just gives out the next available reference when a new device is plugged in.
<ali1234> it does
<spiritech> so sda sdb sdc so on so forth.
<ali1234> but /dev/disk/by-id should be a uuid and therefore always unique
<spiritech> how do i find the by-id of a device.
<spiritech> ?
<ali1234> fdisk -l
<ali1234> wait, that doesn't work
<ali1234> you should find they are symlinks anyway
<ali1234> ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-17
<diddledan> yawn
<m0nkey_> dude, sleep it off :-P
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<diddledan> ello m0nkey_
<diddledan> so keira knightly actually did a topless photoshoot
<diddledan> she insisted that there be zero photoshopping, however, so it's kind of a protest against the industry
<diddledan> http://buzz.hotmomsclub.com/actress-keira-knightley-takes-a-dramatic-stand-against-photoshopping-in-hollywood/ (note, this isn't the photos in their glory, so the page is SFW - the linked page however is less so)
<m0nkey_> photoshop sucks. it's too expensive, don't run on *nix, and it can make real people look like plastic.
<m0nkey_> GIMP ftw
<diddledan> and now it's a verb
<m0nkey_> viva la OSS!
<diddledan> I never worked out how to draw a perfect circle in gimp
<m0nkey_> hold shift?
<diddledan> no, I mean, I couldn't find the circle tool when I last tried
<m0nkey_> I've always used the selection tool to make a circle.
<m0nkey_> I need to go to bed
<m0nkey_> Gotta be up at 5am
<diddledan> what time you got now? 10?
<m0nkey_> 9pm
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> if you go now, you'll just hit 8 hours
<diddledan> sounds like a plan
<m0nkey_> Choice between 16gb or 32gb SanDisk Fit drive.. only $8 difference. Hmm.
<m0nkey_> I'm low on USB drives. I need one for my router for stats and logging, a spare for my FreeNAS box in case the one I have dies.
<m0nkey_> And finding a USB2 drive the size of your thumbnail is hard.
<m0nkey_> And Sandisk don't make the USB2 model anymore (FreeNAS craps out on USB3)
<diddledan> plug a usb3 drive into a usb2 port?
<m0nkey_> FreeNAS is touchy about USB3.
<m0nkey_> period
<diddledan> hmm
<m0nkey_> You ever see my FN build?
<diddledan> I think so, yeah
<m0nkey_> Hmm,  64GB USB stick, $55 .. 500GB WD external USB drive, $60
<diddledan> nuts
<m0nkey_> I think I'll get the hard disk
<diddledan> disproportionate, much?
<m0nkey_> 1TB is only $75
<diddledan> I still like spinning rust
<diddledan> you just can't beat it for capacity
<m0nkey_> Get an OTG cable, boom.. tons of storage for my tablet :)
<m0nkey_> Hmm, 1TB $75.
<m0nkey_> Then I can put that drive off-site with all photos, etc.
<m0nkey_> 500GB or 1TB. about $15 difference
<m0nkey_> k, sold
<m0nkey_> Right, now I'm off to get sleep
<m0nkey_> Cya for now
<map> sheeesh
<map> these cheapp fags are killer
<map> was smoking 20/week in uk now im doing 20/day
<map> :(
<map> 2.20 a pack
<diddledan> yey?
<map> not yey
<map> its silly
<map> :D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Guest70650> morning
<MooDoo> raaa
<daftykins> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> had a great time at the weekend playing with ubuntu server and failover [keepalived and haproxy
<MooDoo> ]
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> map: so cost is the only reason not to smoke more in the UK?
 * foobarry wonders how much people in UK would smoke if they were Â£20 a pack
<MooDoo> i don't think price is a factor well not much of one, if people want to smoke, they will pay
<dagadog> Hi Channel.  Just upgraded to 14.10
<dagadog> No problems whatsoever
<popey> super
<MooDoo> yay
<knightwise> morning
<popey> yo
<foobarry> managed to close enough chrome tabs to see the icons now
<knightwise> you everyone
<knightwise> YO everyone :) its typo monday today
<popey> nearly two weeks on firefox here
<Myrtti> joys of visiting sister: I get to be a bunk bed for cats again
<ujjain> does anybody know if IT contracting exists in the US?
<ujjain> I seem to always be talking about the same subjects btw :P
<ujjain> I'm still loyal to Firefox.
<MooDoo> haven't used FF in years.....although isn't there a new version coming out that's a bit special?  for devs?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Home-Made Bread Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<popey> MooDoo: already out
<popey> basically firefox with some add-ons and a dark theme
<MooDoo> just the standard download or you have to get it from another link?
<popey> there's a separate page for it.
<MooDoo> ok
<MooDoo> ooooo
<MooDoo> looks good
<popey> i should probably find some better music to take screenshots of the music app with â»
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-11-17-101609.png
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-11-17-101331.png
<Myrtti> popey: radiohead
<popey> good point, well made
 * popey finds some
<Myrtti> popey: or joco
<Myrtti> (Jonathan Coulton for the uncivilised)
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a decent sound bar in the ~Â£100 range? :)
<Myrtti> I was visiting a future inlaw few weeks back and he had bought a soundbar around that range and it sounded worse than the tv it was hooked up to on it's own
<Myrtti> too bad I can't remember which one it was, might've been Sony
<Azelphur> Myrtti: that sounds promising xD
<Azelphur> I was told sound bars are usually quite decent
<Azelphur> we could potentially change the requirements to "cheapest soundbar that isn't crap"
<Myrtti> yeah, so was I so you can imagine my face when a decent make sounded like it was coming from underwater and tomato tines
<Azelphur> or even "cheapest sound producing device that isn't crap"
<Myrtti> tins
<Myrtti> go to Richer Sounds, then.
<Myrtti> I think this elderly relative had bought his out of a whim at Curry's
<Myrtti> and well. The results were audible.
<Azelphur> hehe
<diplo> Azelphur, cheapest one my friend could find that had a decent sound was about Â£180
<Azelphur> diplo: that's not too bad
<popey> Azelphur: bigcalm bought one on the weekend from tesco
<diplo> Can't remember the model off hand, but could probably find out this week at some point
<Azelphur> popey: cool :)
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-HW-F350-inch-Soundbar-Sound/dp/B00BYWFB16 that one i think
<popey> 15:54:23 < bigcalm> popey: splashed out on a Samsung HW-H355 soundbar from Tesco. It sounds so sweet in my tiny office now :)
<Azelphur> oO, reviews seem to like it
<Azelphur> slightly different model then
<foobarry> did anyone watch castles in the sky BBC prog about radar?
<Azelphur> aha, the H355 is in the related items
<foobarry> decent bbc drama
<popey> ah http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-HW-H355-Soundbar-Connectivity-Subwoofer/dp/B00J4EPF9Y
<Azelphur> yup :)
 * popey adds to wishlist
<popey> tempted to get one too
<Azelphur> yea certainly doesn't look bad
<popey> i need one with two inputs
<knightwise> We have a sonos 1 in the house
<knightwise> also pretty cool
<Myrtti> we just got a decent AVR, it's been brilliant
<Myrtti> I think we've had it for a few years now
<popey> ooh, it has built in bluetooth!
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> thats handy!
<Azelphur> popey: not overly useful for me since my TV runs XBMC 24/7 anyway
<Azelphur> easy to push stuff from the phone straight to the TV
<popey> I'd rather not have to have the telly on to listen to music
<Azelphur> ah, fair point
<Azelphur> what on earth is "Lip Sync" as an Audio feature o.O
<zmoylan-pi> makes all movies look like badly dubbed kung fu movies, i'd pay for that :-)
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> i really must watch woodie allens movie based on that
<Azelphur> popey: will wait to see what bigcalm thinks of it and then probably get that one :)
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> Due to a torrent of emails from irssi away proxy, I shall poke my head in here for five minutes
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Questions?
<popey> hehe
<Azelphur> bigcalm: haha, hi
<Azelphur> bigcalm: your shiny new H355, what's it like?
<popey> also, what's the usb port on it for?
<Myrtti> I just have irssi notifier :-P
<Myrtti> no emails, hooray
<zmoylan-pi> to charge mobile phones
<popey> +1, dedicated nexus 7 2012 doing irssinotifier
<Azelphur> I use ZNC push to pushbullet and can have my phone automatically initiate actions upon certain IRC messages ;)
<bigcalm> Azelphur: it's very nice. Clean sound. Haven't heard any distortion. Range is good from bass to treble
<bigcalm> popey: you can plug a FAT32 or FAT16 device into the USB port and play files directly
<popey> ahhh
<bigcalm> Not all codecs will work obviously. But I haven't bothered to try it yet
<popey> expect mp3, flac, aac will be fine.
<popey> Myrtti: fixed! http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2014-11-17-104508.png
<bigcalm> Azelphur: popey: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/534296422938845184
<Azelphur> nice
<Myrtti> are those Tesco Direct catalogues?
<popey> nice!
<bigcalm> Though it does mean having 3 cables visible: power, sub woffer & optical
<bigcalm> Myrtti: Argos catalogues :)
<popey> +1 for correct catalogue spelling â»
 * zmoylan-pi likes to flick through a nice catalog
<popey> grattan?
<popey> showing my age there.
 * popey bets DJones remembers the Grattan catalog
<bigcalm> And a LEGO R2D2 keeping guard over the cul-de-sac
<popey> how many argos catalogues!?
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think they'd make it so you could use the sound bar as a coat hanger or somewhere to clip papers :-)
<bigcalm> popey: prior to Saturday morning, a total of 8
<bigcalm> popey: Saturday morning I raised my standing table by a further 6 centimetres and did away with 3 catalogues
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> I did it for my wrists rather than wanting fewer catalogues
<DJones> popey: Afraid not, senility has already kicked in, I remember the "Gus (Great Universal Stores)" Catalogue, but only because they were based where I lived and a few friends parents worked for them
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the 80s pre argos in ireland when every house in ireland had an argos catalog before we made the trip to newry or belfast for christmas shopping
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: cheaper over the border?
<zmoylan-pi> better selection and cheaper, though it did depend on exchange rate so it could be iffy
<zmoylan-pi> each side of the border had something cheaper.  even today as you cross it there are signs for whatever is cheaper to folks from far side.  and around sep-oct it's always fireworks which are banned here
<bigcalm> The sale or use?
<zmoylan-pi> either
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> We have...explosive
 * bigcalm gets a FSOL track stuck in his head
 * Myrtti tries not to obsess to Radiohead, listenes to the Spotify playlist "maybe this could be the wedding disco playlist" instead.
 * zmoylan-pi wonders will all the music on youtube disappear behind a paywall when they get their act together
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: that'll be about the time vimeo comes the #1 video website
<zmoylan-pi> true
<zmoylan-pi> but it will take time to reupload everything
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> to be honest that has already begun, I see a lot of youtubers at least mirroring their content onto vimeo out of copyright strike fears
<popey> Our first dance at the wedding, everyone sang along karaoke style - unprompted - was quite fun
<popey> might have it on video somewhere.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: your wedding play list is all Radiohead tracks?
<Myrtti> no, it has none, because I have had a tiniest Radiohead obsession before and I'm still a recovering addict.
<Myrtti> my teenage obsession with Beatles, Abba and especially Elton John is almost cured, so the playlist does have a few EJ songs.
<daftykins> Elton John \o/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: my all time favourite Radiohead track is Meeting In The Aisle: http://open.spotify.com/track/3FsuOdQvh0Xo4xJ1Tcro0T
<Myrtti> I obsessed over House of Cards so bad
<Myrtti> sooo bad.
<daftykins> i never even finished season 1
<daftykins> grabbed me to start with, but then i lost interest and haven't been back
<Myrtti> the song, by Radiohead
<Myrtti> nudging the cat doesn't really help
<Myrtti> the asshole just shifts and still stays put
<bigcalm> :D
<Myrtti> there we go
<Myrtti> proper shove on the butt
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of remote control to play the sound of the fridge been opened...
<bujji> hi
<bujji> i have an issue with ubuntu os
<zmoylan-pi> what's happening?
<bujji> i have a problem like "failed disk full"
<zmoylan-pi> is your disk full?
<bujji> i was unable to create folder also
<bujji> i type the command "df -h"
<bujji> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1        66G   64G     0 100% / none            4.0K     0  4.0K   0% /sys/fs/cgroup udev            400M   12K  400M   1% /dev tmpfs            94M  2.0M   92M   3% /run none            5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock none            468M  300K  468M   1% /run/shm none            100M   28K  100M   1% /run/user overflow        1.0M  276K  748K  27% /tmp /dev/sda5        64G
<bujji> sorry clumbsy
<bujji> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1        66G   64G     0 100% / none            4.0K     0  4.0K   0% /sys/fs/cgroup udev            400M   12K  400M   1% /dev tmpfs            94M  2.0M   92M   3% /run none            5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock none            468M  300K  468M   1% /run/shm none            100M   28K  100M   1% /run/user overflow        1.0M  276K  748K  27% /tmp /dev/sda5        64G
<bujji> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<zmoylan-pi> your sda1 is full
<bujji> how can i clear those help on this
<bujji> 66G   64G  and it is showing 100%
<bujji> zmoylan-pi help me on this isuue please
<zmoylan-pi> i think you'll have to find files on the drive that you don't need anymore or can move to another drive
<bujji> i remove which i dont want and before it is showing 66g 66g now 66g 64g
<DJones> Anybody seen TheOpenSourcerer online lately
<daftykins> bujji: i'm concerned at your use of the word 'failed'
<bujji> even i download a photo from internet and it is showing failed disk full
<bujji> yes
<bujji> i mentioned the details of "df -h" --daftykins
<MooDoo> .seen TheOpenSourcerer
<MooDoo> rats doesn't that work here?
<daftykins> bujji: yes i'd rather see those pasted via http://paste.ubuntu.com because the above is impossible to read
<DJones> Don't think so
<daftykins> that's a command set for a bot that doesn't run here
<daftykins> @seen
<daftykins> nope nowt
<MooDoo> daftykins: yeah it's what i use in the fedora channels.
 * daftykins holds up two fingers crossed
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> Not seen since early september
<daftykins> we're definitely down on our Alan quota
<bujji> help me on this guys...i have tried to do this alot
<MooDoo> he's about, seen him on facebook.
<daftykins> bujji: and i will once you do what i asked
<zmoylan-pi> i just think you need to delete/move a lot more bujji
<bujji> ok daftykins
<bujji> how can i zmoylan---i deleted which i dont want
<daftykins> bujji: what version are you running?
<bujji> linux 3.9.1
<daftykins> no, what ubuntu version
<daftykins> "lsb_release -a" or "cat /etc/issue"
<popey> DJones: oddly I just emailed him
<popey> 3.9.1!?
<bujji> 13.04
<DJones> popey: I've pm'd alan bell with the info anyway
<DJones> Hopefully it can be passed on that way
<popey> bujji: maybe "sudo apt-get clean" may free up some space
<bujji> i type uname -a commannd daftykins
<popey> bujji: which will remove some cache data
<bujji> i did this before
<bujji> i tried to delete cache data also
<daftykins> bujji: sorry your ubuntu version is dead now, unsupported
<daftykins> !eol | bujji
<lubotu3> bujji: End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<popey> bujji: I'd run something like "Disk utility" or "baobab" and see what's eating up the space.
<popey> bujji: but I wouldn't randomly delete stuff â»
<bujji> okey popy
<popey> baobab is the old name for disk utility
<popey> dunno which it is in 13.04
<popey> which as daftykins says, is a bit old now
<daftykins> bujji: please run "df -h" again and paste it into http://paste.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> as mentioned earlier
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get install pastebinit && df -h | pastebinit
<daftykins> he won't have much luck installing that with a full disk bigcalm
<daftykins> else i would've said the same ;)
<bigcalm> Ah, no. Sorry, should have paid attention to what is going on :)
<daftykins> no problemo
<zmoylan-pi> gonna have to move data off that system before it'll do anything much
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> no doubt a good kernel purge will be step #1
<bigcalm> sudo apt-get autoremove
<daftykins> i don't think it kills older kernels in 13.04?
<daftykins> aah being so close to the high-street is dangerous, i just dropped Â£20 on food in marks and spencer :D
<zmoylan-pi> helping the british economy instead of american corporate franchises daftykins
<daftykins> we don't have any such mainlander supermarkets anywho - unless Waitrose is owned by one
<DJones> daftykins: What diod that get you, a sandwich and a bottle of coke?
<popey> yeah, autoremove _should_ do it
<DJones> did
<bigcalm> Waitrose is owned by John Lewis
<bujji> help me on this daftkins
<popey> bujji: I told you what to do.
<daftykins> bujji: i can't until you actually do something.
<popey> find out whats eating space
<bujji> okey popey
<daftykins> DJones: hehe, it is pretty damned expensive in there yeah
<popey> Waitrose > *
<popey> love that shop
<bujji> give some assistence onthis popey
<popey> I did.
<popey> 12:59:28 < popey> bujji: I'd run something like "Disk utility" or "baobab" and see what's eating up the space.
<daftykins> it's time for a +q
<popey> bujji: have you run either of those?
<bigcalm> bujji: free up some space with sudo apt-get autoremove
<popey> that too
<popey> all good advice.
<bujji> yes i did
<bujji> wait a minutte
<BigRedS_> apt-get clean is normally a pretty immediate way to get a few tens of MB to get thing started again
<popey> yeah.
<bujji> under root  / 68.5g/70.5g
<bujji> hey poeey
<bujji> popey*
<daftykins> bujji: did you run "sudo apt-get clean" and "sudo apt-get autoremove" yet?
<bujji> i tried to download a photo from internet to the free space
<bujji> i did this daftykin
<popey> did you run baobab or disk utility yet?
<bujji> yes i did popey
<popey> and what was the thing that used most space in / ?
<bujji> 68.5g used out of 70.5g
 * daftykins groans
<popey> right, but baobab has a handy graph
<popey> let me show you a screenshot
<bujji> okey
<popey> bujji: http://mauriziosiagri.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/baobab.png
<popey> like that
<popey> so you can see easily what's eating up space.
<popey> so run disk utility, and make it scan /
<popey> it will take a little while
<bujji> yes somewhat like that
<popey> ok, you could maybe let it run, then take a screenshot and post it to http://imgur.com so we can see it (if it's not got sensitive info in it) and we can help you further
<bujji> its taking time ...you are very helpful
<bujji> do you have any blog popey
<popey> I do
<popey> search my name.
<awilkins> Problem : want to use https://appear.in
<bujji> popey on google
<awilkins> Works fine on Firefox! Hooray!
<awilkins> Screen sharing only works on Chrome (ium?), boo
<bujji> one more popey
<popey> webrtc probably needed?
<awilkins> popey, Yeah, the probleem is that Chrome and Chromium just refuse to allow it access to the mic + camera even after I've granted permission
<bujji> how to clean trash...where it is located when delete a file in ubuntu
<awilkins> You visit the page and you get the little camera icon with a cross on it... and reconfigure it
<awilkins> bujji, If you'e using the default install, the trash bin is the icon bottom of the dash on the left
<popey> bujji: should be an icon in the bottom left of the screen that looks like a trash icon
<awilkins> I have Chrome for Netflix, that doesn't work any better than Chromium
<awilkins> Has Firefox grabbed access to my mic? Even though I closed it?
<bujji> yes fine
<bujji> in command prompt where tit is located
<bujji> and cache also--popey
<popey> trash?
<popey> bujji: ~/.local/share/Trash I think
<bujji> trash finding through command prompt
<bujji> and cache also
<diddledan> tit is located at /var/lib/porn isn't it? :-p
<diddledan> sorry, I'll be quiet
<m0nkey_> diddledan, never install pr0n at system level.
<diddledan> no?
<m0nkey_> /usr/local
<diddledan> lol
<bujji> popey.com is yours
<popey> correct
<foobarry> strange that
<daftykins> we really ought to work out how people keep finding here instead of their own language channels
<foobarry> or make new chans
<bujji> okey thanks for the assistance..
<popey> daftykins: yeah
<popey> bujji: out of interest, how did you find this irc chat?
<popey> I mean, how did you get here?
<bujji> i tried alot finding my problem ...i did those commands specified in it
<bujji> but i think i need a online help
<bujji> i found through google
<bujji> you too thanks daftykins
<foobarry> why ubuntu-uk ?
<foobarry> rahter than #ubuntu
<bujji> ?
<popey> bujji: we're wondering exactly what path got you here
<foobarry> why did you choose this channel rather than the default #ubuntu support room
<popey> because we get a lot of people in this channel asking for help
<bujji> why?
<popey> we dont know how they get here
<popey> what link they click
<popey> because you're in the wrong place â»
<popey> but we're happy to help anyway
<popey> it's just not the "official" support channel.
<bujji> wrong place means??
<bujji> i didnt understand
<popey> Ok, so you're in an irc channel
<popey> it's called #ubuntu-uk
<bujji> yes
<popey> the "UK" meaning United Kingdom
<bujji> yes
<popey>  but there's also "#ubuntu" which is the general channel for support
<popey> and you're clearly not in the UK
<popey> so we wonder "How is it that people from outside the UK find the UK IRC channel?!"
<popey> This puzzles us.
<popey> â»
<foobarry> did you click on a link on a web page?
<bujji> i found ubuntu-uk channel that is specified
<bujji> so i came here
<foobarry> did you click on a link on a web page?
<bujji> link only
<popey> do you know where you found that link?
<popey> You're using webchat, right?
<bujji> i dont know..thats why i ask your blog
<bujji> for assistance
<popey> what web browser you using?
<bujji> why?
<popey> forget it
<foobarry> whois confirms it is webcaht
<popey> This is too painful.
<foobarry> bujji: i'll try one  more time
<foobarry> ..
<foobarry> what was the webpage you found this information on?
<bujji> you can try "ubuntu online chat help" on google
<popey> it's a shame irc channels don't have a referrer field â»
<popey> ahhh
<foobarry> ok, bujji which page did you click on next?
<MooDoo> popey: i closed my eyes ages ago....
<foobarry> MooDoo: we'll highliht you when its sfe to return
<bujji> i think i tried to click all may be 1-5 links
<foobarry> this one ? www.fossbox.org.uk/node/22/
<popey> bujji: great, that's helpful, thank you!
<bujji> may be
<foobarry> that is hit number 5
<foobarry> cool. just wondering
<foobarry> :D
<bujji> that i didnt understand i am in a wrong place...popey
 * foobarry shakes MooDoo from his slumber
<popey> bujji: you're not, it's fine.
<bujji> ?
<popey> Don't worry.
<bujji> how did you learn all these things?
<popey> Magic.
<bujji> magic also have to learn
<foobarry> exactly
<popey> indeed!
<bujji> indeed
<diddledan> indubitibly?
<diddledan> that's spelt wrong methinks
<diddledan> indubitably**
<bujji> then what type of irc is this
<bujji> popey
<diddledan> there, IFTFY
<foobarry> one where a lot of virtual tea is drunk
<bujji> popey?
<popey> bujji
<daftykins> bujji: it's a chat and help channel for UK users
<diddledan> foobarry: and cake!
<popey> But we allow interlopers like daftykins in
<bigcalm> Fnar
 * diddledan gives daftykins some evils
<diddledan> and map tends to be all over the place
<bujji> only uk..
<zmoylan-pi> if you didn't allow daftykins then think of the chaos elsewhere!! :-p
<diddledan> I lost track of where map is today
<foobarry> there is a global channel called #ubuntu bujji . hang around in there and you can absorb knowledge :D
<diddledan> absorb it like a vampire absorbs blood
 * daftykins the French mutation was graciously allowed to stay
<bujji> how can i learn a linux in brief --popey
<popey> bujji: use it
<bujji> any info i appreciate it
<foobarry> install it
<foobarry> do things
<diddledan> "brief" - it's something that you learn by doing
<diddledan> it takes time
<bujji> like admin things
<foobarry> how do you learn "maths"
<diddledan> I learned most stuffs by having a need
<foobarry> how do you learn lego
<awilkins> bujji, There is a subset of basic tools you need to learn to be proficient
<bujji> school itself..
<awilkins> bujji, Starting with `man`
<diddledan> necessity is the main driver of my learning
<popey> yeah, i only learned about Linux by using it all day every day
<foobarry> there are online videos you can watch to find out what you might want to learn..
<popey> I used to dual-boot windows and linux
<popey> don't learn as much that way IMO
<awilkins> I learned about Linux by installing Gentoo the hard way
<diddledan> awilkins: +1
<popey> technically I still dual boot, but only so I can play games on Windows â»
<awilkins> Likewise, I'm a Windows-gamer
<popey> and test out xamarin and unity3d and other evil proprietary software
<awilkins> And a Linux-worker
 * popey pokes directhex with a stick
<bujji> i always refer google to do anything
<directhex> moo
<directhex> ?
<diddledan> cow!
<bujji> but i wont find a proper one..
<bujji> linux geek
<popey> Dave2: is there any way we could get aggregated web log stats from webchat where people come directly to #ubuntu-uk ?
<popey> speciifcally the referals.
<popey> hehe https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=270794
<popey> " Had some trips to #ubuntu, #ubuntu-laptop and so on because I want to buy a netbook and wanted opinions. People were not very friendly there."
<diddledan> maybe that's why they come here instead.....
<awilkins> bujji, If you want a way of learning about Linux that's very hard work, get a virtual machine platform sorted out and run through https://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml
<awilkins> bujji, Things will seem mysterious but if you tunnel into everything you do, read the man pages, etc, you will learn a lot
<daftykins> oh my word friends don't let friends gentoo
<daftykins> :)
<foobarry> 2291 days ago
<bujji> gentoo is a liux version ...awilkins
<daftykins> it's definitely a lost cause if someone comes into #ubuntu trying to ask for system purchase advice
<foobarry> somebody mentioned gentoo in the enterprise during an interview the other week
<popey> amazing, 6 years ago
<foobarry> i was pressing the ejector button under the desk
<popey> haha
<foobarry> can you deploy me a vm please. it'll be ready in 4 days
<diddledan> foobarry: were you the interviewer or the interviewee?
<foobarry> intervier
<foobarry> -er
<diddledan> try again
<foobarry> people always answer what they have done, rather than what they should do
<foobarry> what distro would you deploy in the enterprise
<foobarry> well we did gentoo blah blah
<foobarry> yes, but what would/should you do
<popey> ARCH!
<diddledan> ubuntu!
<popey> oh, sorry.
<popey> Ubuntu!
<foobarry> arch is fake
<popey> run by the lizard people?
<diddledan> arch is just gentoo with binary packages
<foobarry> i bet you install it and its a ubuntu with new wallpeper and different /etc/issue
<popey> if you can install it
<foobarry> i've never seen arch/gentoo in the wild
<popey> it's got the most deliberately obtuse installer of any distro since slackware 0.1
<diddledan> foobarry: don't come here
<foobarry> all youtube vids and forum comments are fakery
<popey> you *have* to read a giant wiki page, and apparently that's a good thing
<Azelphur> I just pasted this to my arch loving friend >:)
<daftykins> i've heard it said that "all the Linux ricers moved from gentoo to Arch"
<foobarry> arch is just a wiki
<foobarry> there is no distro
<foobarry> its like bronies
<popey> Azelphur: hope he has a sense of humour
<Azelphur> popey: yea, when I was talking to him he was trying to tell me that the OS not offering assistance is a good thing, I was like whaaaaat
<Azelphur> popey: yea he does :)
<popey> :D
<daftykins> diddledan wishes he never saw gentoo in the wild
<foobarry> they only exist as parodies
<Azelphur> popey: he once typo'd "hearing AIDS" so whenever it comes up in conversation we use that now.
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> gonna meet him next month, flying out to California for 10 days :)
<popey> \o/
<foobarry> rainy season?
<Azelphur> he's going to show me the Arch way, supposedly
<popey> set aside a day
<foobarry> californians and their crazy ways and crazy distros
<bujji_> gentoo is  a  linux version ha--popey
<diddledan> Azelphur: run. run for the hills!
<daftykins> Azelphur: i'd say doesn't that involve lots of breakage, but then you have those skills in ubuntu land :D
<foobarry> once i installed about 20 distros to try them
<Azelphur> diddledan: I know right, it's a tarp
<foobarry> included vector linux , and all sort of weirdness
<foobarry> didn't do arch because it doesn't exist
<awilkins> bujji_, Gentoo is a Linux distribution, yes. It's very different to Ubuntu but it's still Linux
<diddledan> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
<Azelphur> indeed
<awilkins> bujji_, The main difficulty is that "Linux" is being used as a word to describe an very large mouthful of things
<foobarry> like "car"
<foobarry> i drive a ford focus estate
<bujji_> okey
<bujji_> benz?
<foobarry> if you can drive a car, its fine, you can mostly drive them all
<foobarry> benz don't have indicators though
<awilkins> bujji_, In reality, "Linux" is just the kernel - the bit that sits under the rest of the operating system and makes the hardware manageable without writing device specific code into every app
<daftykins> a Linux distribution is Linux + GNU, as RMS would have you know
<diddledan> they all have two or three peddles and a big tuney thing
<bujji_> thats nice foobarry
<diddledan> turney*
<Azelphur> daftykins: does that make Android be a Linux distro? :p
<daftykins> dunno, does it use GNU tools? :P
<diddledan> Azelphur: no, because there's no GNU :-p
<awilkins> There are a whole bunch of apps that sit on top and you can learn to use a number of subsets of them
<Azelphur> diddledan: sure there is, it ships with the standard GNU tools doesn't it?
<diddledan> Azelphur: not that I'm aware
<awilkins> I think it does..
<awilkins> You can open a shell via adb can't you?
<diddledan> it certainly doesn't use glibc
<diddledan> they have their own libc .. thing
<popey> bionic
<awilkins> Arrgh, Facebook want to make an Office suite
<diddledan> thanks popey
<bujji_> if i delete a file,in trash also--is there any way to get that
<Azelphur> diddledan: I have loads of standard unix commands available on mine
<diddledan> Azelphur: is that not busybox?
<Azelphur> diddledan: awk, basename, cat, grep, etc
<Azelphur> diddledan: dunno *shrug*
<popey> yes,its busybox
<bujji_> popey
<popey> not GNU
<popey> but I would still say Android is a Linux distro
<awilkins> bujji_, Not without forensic tools
<bujji_> there is a need of other tools ha..thanks
<awilkins> popey, Got Lollipop yet?
<popey> ya
<bujji_> are you peoples linux certified
<awilkins> I'm rather enjoying it on my Nexus 4
<popey> i have it on my 2012 nexus 7
<daftykins> bujji_: no, they couldn't work out how to install it on me
<awilkins> popey, Yeah, that too
<diddledan> android is an example of freedom of choice inherent in the linux market - you have the same base but on top the standard stuff is replaced with android-only bits - i.e. the surface flinger and all the apps that run on it
<bujji_> on you :)
<diddledan> but at the end of it all it's still linux underneath
<daftykins> bujji_: where are you from?
<popey> India.
<awilkins> MS are going to release all their Office apps on Android... for free!
<foobarry> bit late
<bujji_> popey..how do you know?
<foobarry> i use quickoffice
<awilkins> Android tab + BT keyboard
<popey> bujji_: magic
<daftykins> bujji_: have you tried out #ubuntu-in ?
<popey> Some Linux based phone distros are 'real' distros ã
<diddledan> it's just a specialised distribution of linux similar to how kali is a specialise distro or openwrt is a specialised distro
<diddledan> popey: +1
<zmoylan-pi> but aren't they cut down versions of their mobile office and you have to pay for the less restricted versions?
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, Dunno
<foobarry> kali, as in indiana jones?
<bujji_> are you an admin of this popey..
<awilkins> Magic : Clarke's Third Law : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
<popey> bujji_: corerouter1.bytenet.in/103.252.195.253
<diddledan> foobarry: I think it's called kali - the hackers' toolkit distro
<popey> bujji_: that gives it away a bit â»
<foobarry> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zniWN4iyXM
<diddledan> om nom nom nom shavai
<foobarry> mm chilled monkey brains
<popey> I like that I can upgrade apps on ubuntu phone and it doesn't kill them
<bujji_> yes
<knightwise> kali maaaahhhhhh !
<foobarry> http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/gift-gadgets/smartphone-projector-2.0-brown/10996588.html
<foobarry> i think i'd rather buy a chromecast
<bujji_>  mahabharata
<daftykins> knightwise: XD
<popey> there is no way that will work
<knightwise> daftykins: EVERY christmass holiday they would re-run this one on tv ..
<knightwise> part of the holiday spirit :)
<knightwise> nothing says happy holidays like ripping out somebodies heart.
<foobarry> popey: you would need a pitch black room and very bright lcd on your phone
<foobarry> and it would still be lame
<popey> +1
<bujji_> advance happy Christmas to all
<popey> :D
<popey> Happy thanksgiving
<foobarry> knightwise: they show avatar on telly every single day and i still haven't seen it
<awilkins> I had the bluray of Avatar for months before I saw it
<knightwise> foobarry: I haven't seen avatar either.
<knightwise> once they overhype a movie I have this urge NOT to watch it.
<awilkins> Mum got it for a Christmas present for me, presuming that because I was a tech guy, I'd have a bluray player
<foobarry> +1
<daftykins> awilkins: :D
<diddledan> wtf?
<foobarry> never watched lost, breaking bad, or that nonsense
<daftykins> i think being a tech guy is a hint that you wouldn't have a bluray player XD
<diddledan> that's crazay
<knightwise> awilkins: if a movie's main hook is its image quality and not its story ... then I have a problem with that.
<awilkins> When I finally got a BDROM drive I had to rip it and run it through some evilware to watch it
<daftykins> awilkins: please, lose the -ROM - it was never justified ;)
<knightwise> I am currently watching "life on mars" on netflix. good show.
<awilkins> It just sat there eating 30GB of disk space until I got bored of it
<awilkins> daftykins, Yeah, I think it's a BDRW as well
<awilkins> knightwise, Life on Mars is great
<awilkins> knightwise, Ashes to Ashes, not so much, but it closes it all out nicely
<foobarry> never watched these eitehr
<foobarry> i forgot to grab the first 2 episodes of detectorists with get iplayer
<foobarry> for posterity
<bujji_> thank you all for your assistance ..:) bye
<awilkins> bujji_, Enjoy your journey
<bujji_> thanks awilkins
<knightwise> awilkins: we are also watching "the 100" not that bad either
<knightwise> and downton abbey.
<knightwise> since we don"t have cable anymore the only things we watch are shows on netflix .. if we feel like it.
<awilkins> I've just been bingeing on Stargate SG1
<awilkins> I have basic cable for the internet but I don't have the TV box
<knightwise> awilkins: same here .. Very refreshing NOT to have standard crap tv
<daftykins> SG-1 for the win :D
<diddledan> I think my oldest lcd just died
<daftykins> diddledan: ;_;
<diddledan> it gone blank
<awilkins> Mine went blank but still registered as a screen
<awilkins> Was going to see if replacing the cold cathod tube or something would work
<awilkins> But then I just got a nice new full HD 144Hz one :-)
<diddledan> hmm, unplugging it a few times seems to have brought it back
<diddledan> I think I might get a new one anyway
<foobarry> shine a torch on it
<awilkins> I may get a third one
<diddledan> a proper all-digital chain rather than vga
<awilkins> If my current GPU can run three
<awilkins> I have a nice new desk
<diddledan> ooh a third one. now there's an idea
<diddledan> I think two*24inch is sufficient tho
<awilkins> http://obutto-uk.com/workstation-r3volution
<awilkins> Have the three-monitor mounting arms
<awilkins> Not putting a screen on all the mountpoints would seem churlish :P
<diddledan> now that is nice
<awilkins> Not erected it yet
<awilkins> Cleaning out my office has proven to be a multi-week project
<daftykins> haha
<awilkins> Not helped by not being able to have workstation downtime in the week
<awilkins> Nearly there
<foobarry> which order do css files get processed in the <head> section?
<foobarry> last = overwrites previous?
<diddledan> foobarry: yeah, it's in order defined in the html
<diddledan> foobarry: same within a single css file - a subsequent rule can override those higher up in the same file
<foobarry> yeah, thanks for confimring
<MartijnVdS> popey: did the firmware work? :)
<popey> ooh! thanks for the reminder
<Azelphur> popey: rofl, friends response, (14:45:17) sailerboy: Azelphur, at least arch doesn't have a website dedicated to mocking their users http://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
<MartijnVdS> ... yet
<popey> Azelphur: does he know that website was made by an Ubuntu user? â»
<Azelphur> hahaha, he does now >:)
<Azelphur> "minor drawback" he says
<daftykins> as i said though, Arch users are known as the new gentoo ricers
<Azelphur> (14:48:28) sailerboy: Azelphur, at least we use linux | (14:48:39) sailerboy: unlike that bloated commercialized canonical shit
<Azelphur> real burns are coming in now xD
 * knightwise wonders if he should get some popcorn
<popey> MartijnVdS: so wget that onto the device and then sysupgrade -v openwrt-ar71xx-generic-wndr3700v2-squashfs-sysupgrade.bin  ?
<MartijnVdS> wget or scp, and yes
 * popey does that
 * popey waits impatiently for openwrt to come back
<bigcalm> I should get around to unbricking my WNDR3800 some day
<MooDoo> i get a virgin media router tomorrow, might see what it runs like
<MooDoo> free upgrade to 5-mb
<MooDoo> 50
<daftykins> heh, if they're anything like my friends one over in Brighton, the 2.4GHz wifi keeps dying independantly
<MooDoo> daftykins: i have that problem with my ddrwt one now, although i might be channel interferance, drops randomly when i'm doing big file copies
<daftykins> big file copies on wireless? :D
<MooDoo> daftykins: and iso for example
<MartijnVdS> I unbricked hm
<daftykins> hmm that's not very impressive stability
<MooDoo> daftykins: i know :D
<MartijnVdS> My TP-Link 4300 is quite stable
<daftykins> i wouldn't tolerate that ;)
<MartijnVdS> even with the 100 or so wifi networks in range
<MartijnVdS> (yay perpendicular 1960s appartment blocks)
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> wifi ubiquity is definitely a problem these days
<daftykins> thankfully my place is granite so helps with that :>
<daftykins> 17th century Guernsey house - 2 foot+ thick granite walls \o/
<bigcalm> MooDoo: when you get the superhub from vm, switch it into modem only mode and use your own router
<MooDoo> i sometimes end up just using my netgear ethernet over power gaget whic h is better
<bigcalm> MooDoo: it's what everybody else does
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'll give that a go
<bigcalm> It's a shame we can't buy a cable modem of our choosing
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: how's the inside temperature?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: hot in winter, cold in summer?
<daftykins> the ground level isn't so bad :) i've just ok'd to my dad to buy some 5mm perspex to do some simple secondary glazing substitute on my windows
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you probably could, but then you'd have crap connectivity
<daftykins> the top floor under the roof has zero insulation, so it hits 30degC in summer (despite the outside being low 20s tops) and freezes in winter :>
<MartijnVdS> I can keep my doors open in winter and still be warm. Yay neighbors all around (who turn on their heating *a lot*)
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> my main annoyance is a little bit of missing door frame above my front door, the wind comes right down the street and blows right inside
<daftykins> been asking my dad to get his workplace to make up a replacement for probably a year now, he never gets around to it :P
<MartijnVdS> popey: did it come back up ?
<popey> it did
<popey> root@hawking:~# iw reg get
<popey> country GB: DFS-ETSI
<popey>                         * 2472 MHz [13] (17.0 dBm)
<popey> \o/
<popey> thank you!
<daftykins> how come you wanted to use the Japanese only channel?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no that's 14
<MartijnVdS> 1-13 = EU
<daftykins> oh, well why 13 then :P
<MartijnVdS> least congested?
<popey> because none of my neighbours have it ã
 * popey fiddles /etc/config/wireless and reboots
<popey> lets see if it comes back on 13 and 64
<MartijnVdS> popey: you should be able to use any 5GHz frequency as well (also the "NO-INDOOR" ones) -- this firmware has all the required patches
<bigcalm> I'm the only one with a 5ghz network. I think the range of 5ghz isn't that good
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can just run "/etc/init.d/networking reload" for that :)
<popey> i set it to 64
<popey> too late â»
<MartijnVdS> 64 is good enough
<popey> i have two 5GHz
<daftykins> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/2.4_GHz_Wi-Fi_channels_%28802.11b%2Cg_WLAN%29.svg/1280px-2.4_GHz_Wi-Fi_channels_%28802.11b%2Cg_WLAN%29.svg.png
<popey> at each end of the house
<daftykins> 1,6,11,14 are non-overlapped
<popey> doubt many of my devices will go to 14
<popey>                         * 2484 MHz [14] (disabled)
<popey> 13 is okay. most people near me are on 1 or 6
<MooDoo> JamesTait: ubuntu lts server works wll with hyper-v :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: in Europe, 1, 5, 9, 13 will also work fine -- but lots of devices use 1/6/11 so usually you can't anyway :)
<directhex> i used to have a wifi app on my phone which showed congestion. hang on...
<daftykins> eww hyper-v
<daftykins> wifi analyser \o/
<MooDoo> daftykins: i like it lol :D
<bigcalm> That's the one
<popey> yeah, i use Wifi Analyser
<popey> wandered round with two android tablets yesterday, one on 2.4, one on 5
<directhex> lots of wifi congestion near me.
<popey> http://imgur.com/SfnteU5 my neighbourhood
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovm4uu760znsq8z/Screenshot_2014-11-17-15-27-58.png?dl=0
<directhex> nobody else on 5GHz though
<daftykins> eww that's a horrid neighbour indeed, popey :>
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/pvrYzDP.png
<DJones> As everyone is sharing, http://imgur.com/ywDF8rt
<popey> haha, spankland
<DJones> directhex: Interesting strongest signal you've got there
<diddledan> I had to order a new psu
<popey> for some reason the "F*ck off and die" access point that used to show up has gone
<directhex> DJones: with 3 antennae it had better be the strongest!
<diddledan> it'll be here in the morrow
<popey> DJones: wow, you in the middle of nowhere?
<diddledan> and just as I finish the order the pc it's destined for powers off
<MartijnVdS> using iw wlan0 scan on AP #1:
<MartijnVdS> 2.4GHz: 20
<MartijnVdS> 5GHz: 1
<popey> or just a cave with you and your phone
<daftykins> did i link this in here yet? http://thehackernews.com/2014/11/rootpipe-critical-mac-os-x-yosemite.html
<popey> dont fink so
<DJones> popey: Pretty much at work, only 1 building within about 100 yards, and thats a dodgy B&B that only just about has a tv antenna, never mind wifi
<popey> heh
<DJones> Although I do get a nice 52.65Mbps download on 4G here
<MartijnVdS> DJones: so do I, in Amsterdam city centre :)
<DJones> This is on the edge of Liverpool city centre
<diddledan> the new psu can't come soon enough. I can't keep the pc alive more than ten minutes before the power drops to a point where the gfx stops working
<daftykins> diddledan: ouch, just died of old age?
<diddledan> yeah, I woke up to the fan making weird rattling this morning. moving the case seemed to kill the fan and now I guess it's overheating
<daftykins> not gonna conduct surgery and insert another fan? :D
<diddledan> no, I'm not that brave
<zmoylan-pi> the most surgery i've ever done on a psu is extract 10lb of cat hair
<daftykins> lol
<zmoylan-pi> other than that's it's a drop in replacement and keep your eyebrows
<daftykins> nothing wrong with PSU surgery ;D
<daftykins> just... don't touch anything or poke metal tools inside :>
<zmoylan-pi> and capacitors *AREN'T* your friends
<awilkins> Blew the dust out of the GFs laptop cooler
<awilkins> No longer sounds like a 747 on final taxi to the runway
<awilkins> A little worrying now actually... too quiet
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> plugged the fan back in? ;)
<awilkins> didn't unplug it
<awilkins> Just directed canned air into the rear grille and fan intakes
<daftykins> oh :S
<awilkins> Laptop isn't exploding
<awilkins> Managed to back up files from Windows with antivirus for an hour or so, so it had a workout
<map> so my pi turned off again....and no idea why dad rebooted it so couldnt tell if it was just networking crashed
<daftykins> i wouldn't think it safe to just blow into a laptop with compressed air, as the dust bunnies could just wrap around the fan spindle and snap off next time it runs
<daftykins> i only ever do full disassemblies where i re-do the thermal paste too
<awilkins> It's so hard to disassemble many laptops down to the fan though
<awilkins> I have an HP G72 and you literally have to strip the whole thing down, motherboard included, remove the heatsink from the thermal material, and then start bending sheet metal to open the fan assembly
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yep, i've done ones like that
<awilkins> A wee squirt of canned air produces marvellous results without nearly so much fuss
<daftykins> but the dust doesn't come out? :)
<awilkins> The dust came out of the intake hole
<awilkins> The biggest problem is the mat that forms over the radiator output
<daftykins> interesting
<awilkins> Impedes airflow and just causes the fan to recirculate hot air
<map> hm ive used canned air in laptops before didnt think it would do any damage
<awilkins> Which is why it goes so fast, those cylindrical fans run much faster when they create a low pressure zone because they can't move air
<awilkins> Same reason a COncept 2 rowing machine is much easier when you close off the intake aperture
<awilkins> Less air moved, less energy dissipated from fan, fan moves faster
<map> i need to ix my captop:)
<daftykins> map: new keyboard for you for Christmas, i see
<map> pah:)
<map> typo:P
<zmoylan-pi> either nix or fix, could end up bad for the laptop :-)
<Azelphur> Stumbled upon a pretty cool gadget, tempted to get one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zalman-ZM-VE300-Portable-2-5-SATA-Silver-USB-3-0-HDD-Enclosures-with-Virtual-Dr-/361045053270
<Azelphur> If you put ISOs in the "ISO" directory, that drive can mount them and emulate a USB CD/DVD/BR drive
<daftykins> oh that's a far more bearable price one
<daftykins> i remember them being way worse
<Azelphur> yea, that's a pretty ok price
<Azelphur> and I have a spare 320GB drive I can throw in there
<daftykins> thing is, USB 3 flash drive + YUMI or some crafty time with GRUB and you can dump ISOs on one to do the same thing
<Azelphur> daftykins: not with Windows ISOs though
<daftykins> for which part?
<daftykins> because i do
<Azelphur> daftykins: I've never been able to successfully boot Windows from USB, it just doesn't work
<daftykins> fine here :)
<Azelphur> clearly you're some form of wizard.
<Azelphur> what did you use to create it?
<zmoylan-pi> ground up pixies and unicorns :-p
<daftykins> i tend to do my Windows ones natively, by dumping the ISO contents on a FAT formatted ~4GB+ partition followed by running the /boot/bootsect.exe /nt60 X: for win7+
<Azelphur> daftykins: does Windows work with YUMI?
<daftykins> yep
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> I might give that a whirl
<daftykins> but if you mean using a USB 3 port, you have to have USB 3 drivers for the system's controller integrated into a 7 image
<daftykins> (if Windows 7(
<daftykins> *)
<Azelphur> daftykins: surely if you use USB 3 it'll still work, you just might have to fallback to USB 2?
<daftykins> well it's pretty damned odd :D it'll boot then claim you have no hard disks XD
<Azelphur> ah
<daftykins> this might only be with my own laptop where the USB 3 is some obscure 3rd party controller chip though, not sure about native intel USB 3 systems
<daftykins> i tend to just use the USB 2 ports for certainty
<Azelphur> yea
<daftykins> i've got this lovely Team Group 32GB USB 3 drive right now which put a full 900MB ISO on in around 13 seconds
<Azelphur> nice
<daftykins> i've been meaning to modify a windows 7 ISO with my laptops drivers so i can see how insane a USB 3 -> SSD install is for speed :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: apparently yumi only works with 1 windows image on it at a time
<daftykins> it does :(
<Azelphur> daftykins: makes it not so useful
<daftykins> in fact YUMI breaks a fair bit... you can't run memtest off the menu of ubuntu ISOs
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I tried another tool like this before
<Azelphur> and it just didn't work
<daftykins> it is kind of tempting to have one o' those gadgets - assuming it works as it claims
<daftykins> i seem to have a drive for each main OS that i use
<daftykins> then a single one with multiple Linux ISOs
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, it certainly looks like it does given reviews
<daftykins> would be pretty neat to even put this spare 40GB SSD in and throw on a load of the usual suspects :D
<Azelphur> exactly
<Azelphur> daftykins: stick all the *buntus on there, gparted live cd, Windows XP through 8.1, OSX too, both 32bit and 64bit
<Azelphur> will get you covered for any machine you encounter
<daftykins> hmm assuming it'll like converted OS X images
<daftykins> i've a flash drive with 10.9 on atm, could update that to have Yosemite on it now
<Azelphur> daftykins: converted?
<daftykins> yeah because it's usually some non-ISO format in the download edition i think
<Azelphur> ah
<daftykins> depends what images the Zalman works with i guess
<Azelphur> think just ISOs
<Azelphur> but must be able to get an ISO of pretty much everything
<daftykins> yeah, macs just talk .dmg as standard of course
<daftykins> Azelphur: if you ordered it already, let me know how it is? :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: haven't ordered it, but certainly pondering
<Azelphur> might put it on my christmas list
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i could put it on my Christmas list too, for future daftykins to buy for me
<popey> heh
<popey> what product we talking about now?
<popey> I clearly need more things for my wishlist!
<popey> (this close to xmas)
<daftykins> that Zalman hard disk virtual CD emulator
<daftykins> i think you mentioned it once too, mr. popey
<popey> oh zalman, yeah, i have one
<daftykins> has it worked with absolutely every system you've tried it with?
<popey> no
<popey> i have a toshiba laptop it didnt work with
<popey> but that laptop is ~6 years old I think
<popey> thinkpads had no problem with it.
<daftykins> popey: ah, good to know. it does seem somewhat risky in my head, ta!
<MrBanana> does ubuntu 14.04 come with anti virus
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> !antivirus
<lubotu3> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to Windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<MrBanana> so i dont have to worry about virus
<daftykins> correct
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm up to 45 2.4GHz networks, and 0 (other) 5GHz ones
<TheBlackRussian> Guess whos back :D for HELP
<TheBlackRussian> i need help installing themes on ubuntu
<map> hi all
<map> well that sucked..went out for food and it was garbage
<map> :(
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> speaking of food
<diddledan> I need some
<map> ;]
<diddledan> daftykins: make me a sammich
<map> nein
<diddledan> no, just 8 will do
<daftykins> i just had pasta
<m0nkey_> sudo make me a sammich
<map> daftykins,  channel cook?
<diddledan> morning m0nkey_
<daftykins> i'd feel sorry for you all if i were ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: you can't be as bad as me
<diddledan> daftykins: my specialty is takeout pizza
<daftykins> :D
<m0nkey_> evenin
<map> i like to eat out..
<map> try to 1-2x a week
<map> saves cooking and washing up:D
<daftykins> m0nkey_: o/
<map> time for homeland
<map> :DDDD
<daftykins> don't even know what that is
<daftykins> +about
<diddledan> I only saw the first half of the first season
<diddledan> I kinda lost track of it
<map> pfft
<map> amateur tv watchers
<map> :D
<daftykins> i consider that a compliment
<map> pff
<popey> MartijnVdS: wifey having trouble connecting to wifi on her macbook pro â¨
<popey> MartijnVdS: on closer inspection they're connecting and can ping internal ip addresses
<popey> i think there's a route missing or something
<daftykins> delete the profile for the network sir
<daftykins> them macs be screwy
<popey> yeah, i deleted and recredted
<popey> er recreated
<daftykins> restart too? ;D
<popey> so, she's going mac -> wifi -> router running openwrt in bridged mode (192.168.1.4) -> router to internet (192.168.1.1)
<popey> from her mac I can ping 1.1
<popey> so I am connected to wifi and getting past the openwrt router
<popey> but I can't ping outside the network
 * popey sends her fb msg to reboot it
<daftykins> two routes on the same subnet with DHCP killed and no double NAT sounds nicely straightforward
<popey> its not double nat
<popey> 192.168.1.4 bridges
<daftykins> that's what i'm confirming ja
<popey> so the dhcp is done by 1.1
<daftykins> i've been around some hilarious setups recently where people are using old routers with new - but still running DHCP :D
<popey> ah
<daftykins> nice race condition on DHCP offers
<daftykins> if you were, it would kinda make sense packets going out but not coming back - so to be like that on the same one is very odd
 * popey tests a non-apple device in there
<map> very good ep of homeland
<map> :D
<popey> bah!
<popey> resorted to giving her an ethernet cable
<popey> it's certainly a routing issue of some kind. can ping 192.168.1.1 from her laptop but not 8.8.8.8
 * popey wonders if MartijnVdS maybe missed some kernel module off in his firmware build â»
<map> just love brooklyn nine nine so funny
<diddledan> popey, just listening to the podcast from 6th November. Re: the inclusivity of conferences survey - in addition to a "if not why not" you could have an "if so, did you feel welcome?" and an "if you went, was there any specific reasoning why you decided to attend?" - that way you can see what made those that did attend and also what made those who didn't attend stay away. It might make for a more interesting analysis knowing both why and why not
<diddledan> come up with a venn diaphragm to figure out the best method to include both camps
<map> hmm
<map> annoying here
<map> casino closes at 4
<map> ;[
<map> and no strip clubs
<map> strange
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> n0rty
<diddledan> or were you referring to strip-mining clubs?
<map> im ust used to it
<map> hah
<map> nah usually go to reflex..then strip club..then casino
<popey> diddledan: good pint
<popey> er, point
<popey> Myrtti: irssinotifier is way more crashy under L â¹
<diddledan> popey: John Smiths please
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> either that or whatever real-ale the bar has
<map> gonna go into spain
<map> see if theres any strip clubs there
<map> blow a few hundred euros ;]
<map> boring monday night else
<diddledan> I wonder when the nexus-7 2012 gsm model is going to get an update rollout to L
<map> well tat sucks
<map> 'La Linea Strip Club' was frutless
<map> *fruitless
<d3ngar> Hi, on the off-chance that someone here knows more about the intricacies of Eclipse:
<d3ngar> I seem to have a problem with Eclipse: I'm using eGit and I've changed to a different branch. Unfortunately when I try to run this branch, it just runs the master branch
<daftykins> why not ask in a java dev channel?
<d3ngar> Good point!
<daftykins> heh
<directhex> eclipse /o\
<daftykins> total eclipse of the heart
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-18
<andylock1an> hey. popey. i installed ubuntu on my nexus 4 and it ran out of battery. is it easy to fix it as now it wont charge. oops.
<andylock1an> sat in a squash court with no partner. less than ideal.
<map> hm
<map> we may not hav much
<map> but we got morsld
<map> :)
<map> i spoke to some tat asking for a lighter nd my 'frend' text me right away
<map> 'dont speak to her'
<map> because hes sleeping with her while his fiancws npregnant
<andylockran> top guy
<map> yep
<map> i was in some bar and i saw this girl
<map> and i spoke to her
<map> he text me sying 'ARE YOU RETARDED DONT TALK TO HR'
<map> classic idiot in trouble
<map> he sent me another few messages but i left thm ouit
<map> ]told him 'fine dont nspeak to me il tel your girlfriend whats going on and you csn foff'
<map> im vaguely surprised he threatened me in the message - he knows id knock him out in two seconds then go home for dinner
<map> and im not a violent person:D
<map> but i wont be tking for a fool
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> all hail MooDoo \o/
<zmoylan-pi> beats the usual morning :-)
<zmoylan-pi> time for porridge
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<foobarry> \o
<foobarry> got soaked because i believed my phone
<foobarry> who said it wouldn't rain
<zmoylan-pi> your phone is depressed and was trying to void it's warranty :-p
<diplo> Morning all
<foobarry> next time i interview someone one of the question will be to ask them to sit in a quiet office for 5 minutes
<foobarry> then ask them to do some tasks, like eat a sandwich
<zmoylan-pi> with a clock with an irregular tick like the patricians? :-)
<foobarry> and see how much disruption and disgusting noises come out of them
<foobarry> then make a phone call without broadcasting to the entire office
<foobarry> then make a really personal phone call on their mobile
<foobarry> that kind of thing
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<zmoylan-pi> japan takes their interviews a little further :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQlQoMrymts
<zmoylan-pi> huh, thought it was japan.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Entrepreneurship Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> entrepreneurship day... with balloons, powerpoint presentations and fund raisers?
<diplo> How's the new job going MooDoo ?
<popey> Good morning.
<popey> ooh http://n1.nokia.com/
 * zmoylan-pi fondly remembers my nokia 770 tablet. best wifi... ever.
<zmoylan-pi> with android 5... tempting
<popey> china first...
<zmoylan-pi> that'll shake out any bugs then
<MooDoo> diplo: brill thanks :D
<MooDoo> diplo: i have my 3 months end of probation review this afternoon
<popey> andylockran: you need to charge it from a wall wart.
<diplo> That's great news!
<diplo> Still in Nottingham ?
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah, bulwell, blenheim ind estate
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan> mornin morning
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> how's everyone ?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Ubuntu Mate torrent - peaked at 13.26 MB/s, steady at 12.89 MB/s :)
<popey> gosh
<bigcalm> Download, not upload :P
<popey> haha, leecher
<popey> dunno how many seeds there are
<bigcalm> I think I leeched from 20 seeds
<popey> nice
<bigcalm> I'm currently uploading to 1 client at 3KB/s
<bigcalm> :|
<bigcalm> Last Announce: Today 10:30:11 AM (got 27 peers)
<bigcalm> There you go
<bigcalm> 26 of those are seeding
<bigcalm> For the sake of compatability, I got the 32bit version
<bigcalm> This is going on the USB flash drive on my key ring
 * bigcalm looks around for a spare computer to try it on
<bigcalm> I wonder if my wife will mind if I pinch her laptop
<andylockran> popey - have tried from the wall, red led lights up for 60 seconds, then it goes off, never picks up the charge.
<andylockran> Read on the wiki it's potentially a known issue and need to open up the phone to disconnect some internal hardware
<popey> no
<popey> just leave it alone
<popey> plugged in
<andylockran> ok
<andylockran> well it's on charge at home
<andylockran> will check it tonight
<bigcalm> One thing I like about this soundbar is that I have to turn the sub woofer down by 3 levels when listening to Nemones Electric Ladyland. I wub my bass but I can hear it outside of the house if it's set to normal
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> the normalisation of audio can be pretty damn frustrating
<daftykins> having to keep sitting on the dials and so on
<daftykins> i love that my Onkyo AV receiver has an android app, so i can just jump on that and drag the sub up and down as per requirement
<bigcalm> Sound, especially bass, travels very well though our house. So I only use the soundbar when my wife is out
<bigcalm> I have the IR remote to the soundbar on my desk
<daftykins> is it attached via optical then? presuming this is the new purchase
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Very happy with it
<daftykins> neat :D
<daftykins> huzzah at getting to set up Google Apps for a client again, i do love the simplicity
<dvrr>  how to setup squid proxy with dansguardian ubuntu 14.04
<awilkins> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+setup+squid+proxy+with+dansguardian+ubuntu+14.04&l=1
<daftykins> tsk tsk awilkins ;)
<daftykins> hey we even have a result from our very own TheOpenSourcerer!
<daftykins> result #2
<MooDoo> i setup ha proxy + keepalived the other night :S
<MooDoo> :D
<daftykins> what does that do?
<MooDoo> i have two webservers, if one goes down it moves a ip from one machine to the other, so sites never go down :D
<MooDoo> means i can have my sites on my main server, then for redundancy have a copy on a vps
<MooDoo> which can take over
<daftykins> ah ok so ha was high availability
<daftykins> sounds good :>
<MooDoo> yes
<MooDoo> works quite well for my setup
<daftykins> any reason both sides aren't all VPS?
<MooDoo> daftykins: I just had a 1u server for my sites so using that. vps's are on another seperate box
<daftykins> bleh, what a frustrating registrar - makes you buy 'webzone credits' to let you do simple things like email forwarding
<Azelphur> daftykins: I bought that drive thing :)
<daftykins> \o/
<MooDoo> woohoo pass probabtion
<daftykins> weyhey ;D
<daftykins> congrats
<MooDoo> :d
<DJones> MooDoo: That just means you've got to stay there now (whether you like it or not)
<MooDoo> DJones: good job i like it then isn't it
<Myrtti> meh. My screenlet stopped working
<andylockran> anyone else been on http://yougov.co.uk/profiler ?
<diplo> popey, are you still using syncthing ?
<diplo> Going to give it another go this afternoon
<popey> yes
<diplo> Do you sync any windows machines ?
<diplo> Would like to run it off my parents Win7 box so sync back to my server
<popey> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2848723/microsoft-subnet/hackers-claim-bittorrent-sync-should-not-be-used-for-sensitive-data.html
<popey> i dont use it on windows
<diplo> yeah, sort of what prompted me to look again
<diplo> I installed BTSync a week ago but hadm't got round to setting it up yet
<diplo> Glad I didn't now
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> i don't particularly trust BTSync, it's still gotta go off somewhere to find the peer
<daftykins> played with it a couple of times to share a folder between myself and friends
 * directhex_ moos
<daftykins> afternoonings mr.hex
<brobostigon> RAWR
<MooDoo> he's got a tail
<directhex_> who was asking about the debian GR vote?
<directhex_> the secretary is already running hourly partial analysis of received ballots, they just aren't enabling the full results mode yet. https://vote.debian.org/~secretary/gr_initcoupling/
<aquarius> OK, compiling-things-is-good people, I am in need of a remedial class. I'm trying to compile a static version of sox to drop onto a website. I have pretty much managed this, but the version on the site fails with error "./sox: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by ./sox)". (The website is running a rather older version of Debian than my Ubuntu 14.04 desktop). The question is thi
<aquarius> s: is that error because sox *itself* needs this newer glibc (and therefore I'll never be able to run it on an older system), or is it just because I compiled it on a system *with* a newer version of glibc (and therefore I could conceivably compile it with an older glibc and then it'd work)?
<aquarius> I suspect the answer is the latter, to which my second question is: how do I statically compile something against an older version of glibc (note: I don't want to statically link in glibc itself; I'm happy to have that dynamic, as long as it's to the older version present on the website machine) without setting up a chroot/lxc/etc with some ancient version of Debian in it?
<popey> aquarius: what version of debian?
<aquarius> popey, I don't know
<popey> cat /etc/debian_release ?
<aquarius> it has kernel 3.2, which I was able to find out
<popey> might tell you
<popey> lsb_release -a
<popey> might also tell you
<aquarius> I do not have a shell on the machine, and access to files is restricted to the stuff in my ftp folder
<popey> nice
<aquarius> I can run things from php, and php has a built-in uname() function, hence getting the kernel version
<aquarius> but I don't have access to lsb_release, I don't think
<aquarius> I'll try it, mind, since I just assumed I wouldn't rather than actually checking :P
<marxjohnson> can you run shell commands from php?
<aquarius> marxjohnson, I can
<popey> you could get the binary of sox from packages.debian.org
<popey> find sox, grab the binary deb and use "ar -x foo.deb" to unpack it
<aquarius> popey, I could, but that is compiled with a whole bunch of dependent libraries which I do not have. Hence trying to make a static build.
<popey> what are you usng sox for?
<popey> OOI
<aquarius> I could in theory get all the dependent libraries too and stick them in a folder on the site and LD_LIBRARY_PATH them in, but, well, that's hell on earth, doing that
<aquarius> am using sox to convert an mp3 to data so that I can draw a waveform of it.
<aquarius> aha!
<aquarius> No LSB modules are available.
<aquarius> Distributor ID:	Debian
<aquarius> Description:	Debian GNU/Linux 7.7 (wheezy)
<aquarius> Release:	7.7
<aquarius> Codename:	wheezy
<popey> so you could make a simple debian wheezy chroot and build it in that?
<aquarius> I could, I suppose, and that's my fallback blimey-if-i-have-to option
<aquarius> what I'm hoping is that someone who knows about this stuff will say: just do configure --glibc=2.10 or somethnig ;)
<popey> what arch is it?
<popey> 32 or 64 bit?
<aquarius> amd64 afaict
<popey> what does uname -a return?
<aquarius> Linux dynamic-web10 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.63-2+deb7u1 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> so 64-bit
<aquarius> 64 bit indeed
<aquarius> that's why I felt comfortable compiling the binary on this machine, which is also 64 bit
<popey> k
<aquarius> but I didn't know about this glibc thing
<popey> i have a wheezy amd64 chroot here.
<popey> do you want me to try and build it for you?
<BigRedS> can you install the glibc version that is on the server on your local machine? Or I have a bunch of wheezy machines knocking around if I could build it for you?
<aquarius> BigRedS, I have no idea about installing other glibcs...
<aquarius> popey, build script is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/9073097/ if you fancy giving it a try
<aquarius> create a new folder and put the script in it, then run it
<aquarius> (from inside the folder)
<popey> k
<aquarius> it does not try hard to recover if paths are wrong, and it'll write stuff all over your disc :)
<aquarius> hence putting it in its own folder
<BigRedS> Oh. That 'download as text' link isn't actually a 'download as text' link...
<popey> it is
<popey> you need to login
<popey> because reasons
<aquarius> the reason is that otherwise people can host javascript on pastebin.
<aquarius> and html and whatnot
<aquarius> which IS do not want. :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm used to doing 'save link target as' on those and giving it to wget
<popey> building
<aquarius> popey, I don't know what dependencies etc it needs. Probably libtool, whatever that is
<aquarius> I had to install that :)
<popey> i installed build-essential
<BigRedS> it's just tripped over libmad0-dev for me
<BigRedS> and it's ocurred to me that I might not want to do this all over my desktop :)
<popey> same
<aquarius> hm, it downloads its own libmad and statically compiles it into the binary, at least in theory
<aquarius> that's what it's *supposed* to do, although whether it *does* it or not is another question ;)
<aquarius> popey, what's the output? Although I am unlikely to have a very good idea how to solve it -- it may be apparent that I do not have a very clear idea of what I'm doing, here :P
<popey> its fine, i can fix
<popey> cp: cannot stat `deps/built/sox/bin/sox': No such file or directory
<popey> it does fail, can't find LAME
<aquarius> it downloads lame and copiles it and links it into the binary, as it does with mad
<aquarius> so perhaps there's a problem with the lame compilation?
<popey> ./makesox.sh: line 41: realpath: command not found
<aquarius> ha!
<aquarius> oops
<aquarius> is that not installed by default? :)
<aquarius> apt-get install realpath
<popey> not in a basic chroot, no
 * popey tries again
<popey> http://paste.debian.net/132315/
<popey> root@deep-thought:/tmp# file sox
<popey> sox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0xe9c46243756db012f60ea53011d7cefa9bd28027, not stripped
<aquarius> woo!
<aquarius> can I have it? and I'll try it on the website...
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/sox
<popey> "dynamically linked (uses shared libs)"
<aquarius> ya
<popey> k
<aquarius> it's dymanically linked to glibc for a start
<popey> yeah, not much else
<popey> http://paste.debian.net/132318/
<popey> ^ output of "ldd sox"
<aquarius> and libm and things, I think
<aquarius> sweet
<aquarius> trying on website
<aquarius> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
 * aquarius does the dance of joy
<aquarius> nice one
<aquarius> well, it runs, at least ;)
<popey> â»
<aquarius> thank you!
<aquarius> that was in a stock wheezy chroot?
<aquarius> magnificent victory. I should write this up, I feel.
<aquarius> it runs on my actual machine as well, which is very cool
<aquarius> single binary ftw
<popey> aquarius: yes
<popey> aquarius: http://paste.debian.net/132323/ was everything I did inside the chroot
<popey> sudo debootstrap --arch=amd64 wheezy ./wheezy/ http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/
<popey> thats how i made it...
<popey> then entered it with...
<popey> sudo  mount -o bind /dev wheezy/dev
<popey> sudo mount -t proc none wheezy/proc
<popey> sudo chroot wheezy
<popey> then those commands in the paste, clearly some fiddling there ã
<aquarius> http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2014/11/18/making-a-static-build-of-sox/ written up
<andylockran> cheers sil!
<BigRedS> What's the current favourite thing for self-hosted dropbox? I've no need for owncloudy features
<aquarius> I like syncthing
<BigRedS> ooh, it's got the 'decentralised' buzzword
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> that must be good!
<shauno> I should take another stab at that sometime.  last I tried, owncloud's clients were terribad
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> the server did what it said on the can, but the file-sync-client for osx just kinda made stuff up as it went along, wandered around in circles, and generally drooled a lot
<shauno> (or more specifically, didn't actually sync anything, just created duplicates)
<jpds> BigRedS: git-annex.
<BigRedS> jpds: yeah, this is for my dad...
<BigRedS> shauno: I pondered owncloud, but I don't need about 90% of what it lists as features, really. I just need a directory that's kept in sync
<jpds> BigRedS: spideroak?
<BigRedS> I'm looking for something self-hosted
<BigRedS> it's a big bunch of data and my server's got a good amount of storage space
<BigRedS> Sparkleshare's what I've used before, but this will be some large files, and I recall it (or git) not really dealing with those very well
<aquarius> BigRedS, that's exactly what I use syncthing for
<popey> \o/ syncthing
<diddledan> lol @ the question for this competition: http://hexus.net/ce/features/gadgets/77025-win-moto-360-omate-x-smartwatch/
<daftykins> ;)
<intrbiz> maybe if you answer it wrong you have a better chance of winning?
<popey> MartijnVdS: you about?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<popey> yo
<popey> odd problem with that firmware
<MartijnVdS> oh?
<popey> xbox and mbp can connect, get an IP but it doesn't route packets
<popey> my android tablet connects fine, and works okay.
<popey> kind perplexed
<daftykins> to the packet sniffing!
<MartijnVdS> popey: check /etc/config/firewall
<MartijnVdS> it shouldn't firewall.. because bridging
<popey> all commented out
<popey> oh, except one line
<popey> which includes an empty file
<popey> so thats okay
<popey> oh it's not that its not passing packets (sorry, I tested again late last night)
<popey> I can connect from the mac and ping 192.168.1.1 which is the other side of the router
<popey> but I cant ping anything outside my network
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> maybe the firmware is running its own dhcp server?
<MartijnVdS> try /etc/init.d/dnsmasq stop; /etc/init.d/dnsmasq disable
<popey>   739 root      1152 S    /usr/sbin/odhcpd
<popey> i see that
<MartijnVdS> that's ipv6 only I think. you can stop + disable it too
<popey> ok, do i need to reboot?
<popey> i guess my tablet worked because I already had an ip
 * popey wanders to the mac to test
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't be necessary, unless you disable first :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: is dnsmasq running as well?
<popey> \o/
<popey> that did it
<popey> wifey is now happy, thank you!
<daftykins> ah so it was getting the AP's IP as gateway instead perhaps?
<daftykins> would've been easy to confirm in system preferences on yonder mac
<map> so that was dissapoiunting
<map> couldnt find a stripclub in la linea ended up in some dodgy bar
<map> clearly not a proper place had to knock on door and be let in..could smoke inside etc..very odd
<diddledan> lol, map, you found the dodgiest bar in the town by the sounds of it
<diddledan> map: how?!
<map> not sure
<map> ui was in Molly Blooms till 4 speaking with some american guy i knew from casino in gib
<map> they knew of this dodgy /illegal bar so we went there
<map> paying in pounds even lol
<diddledan> so my new monitor is wired up. and my new psu is inserted. seems stable enough now
<map> would've preferred a stripclub ..i did ask but noone knew
<map> totally useless
<diddledan> and it's much quieter than the old one
<diddledan> bah
<map> and the girl behind the bar didnt even understand when i asked for '2 bulmers'
<diddledan> I've never been in a strip club
<diddledan> I'm a god boy
<diddledan> good*
<map> thought about spelling it out then thought..nope no point!
<map> they said few weeks back they only get like 5 ciders a day lol
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> what do they drink then?
<map> im clearly the channel degenerate ..smokes..drinks..gambles...goes to strip clubs
<map> just lager
<diddledan> aah
<map> never cider i guess
<map> most places have the standard strongbow rubbish
<map> but its awful
<map> and strangely expensive.. Â£5.50 for 4 cans i'm SURE ive paid like Â£15 for 24 at tesco
<diddledan> yeah 15/24 is a standard "we're on offer" price
<map> just glad i didnt come home and drink more -- thats one of my usual routines if ive got drink at home..but must've been too drunk
<map> wokeup with a can of unopened cider on my desk heh
<diddledan> sometimes they do 15/24 and 25/48
<map> yea
<map> its crazy expensive here considering its the garbage cheap cider
<map> kopperberg is lie Â£6.50 for 4 cans LOL
<map> but yet you can buy a Litre of Stolichynia vodka for Â£6.20
<map> or 70cl Jd Honey Â£11
<map> hard to not buy spirits when you compare the prices
<diddledan> tis a slippery slope getting on the spirits tho :-p
<map> yep
<map> go from ok to not ok so quickly
<ABC> how can i remove icons from system tray
<foobarry> discovered i have Â£125 in tesco vouchers
<popey> \o/
<popey> Hudl2 or xmas pressies for the kids?
<foobarry> well, Â£79 now as i bought RAC cover
<foobarry> there is still a hudl left in that
<foobarry> miht hang on until my touchpad dies a death
<popey> the new Nokia N1 looks rather natty
<ABC> how can i remove icons from system tray on ubuntu
<popey> depends on the icon
<ABC> its thundermail
<ABC> bell con
<ABC> *icon
<ABC> i dont know how it appeared
 * diddledan imagines "thundermail" said in a deep and booming voice
<popey> thunderbird?
<diddledan> "thundermail is go!"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> sorry, I'll be quiet
<ABC> yes
<ABC> thundermail
<ABC> i mean
<ABC> I MEAN
<ABC> thunderBIRD
<ABC> mail
<popey> i have never seen the icon, dunno if it's a preference setting somewhere in thunderstruck
<SuperEngineer> darn you popey - now I' compelled to put the phones on & listen to it - loud!
<popey> wat!?
<SuperEngineer> thunderstruck!
<ABC> thunder struck?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> ACDC ABC  ;)
<diddledan> lmao
<SuperEngineer> XYZ
<diddledan> PQR
<ABC> so i cant remove the "bell shape icon"
<diddledan> are you sure that's thundernut, and not googley chrome/chromium?
<diddledan> the only bell I've ever seen is from googley chrome and/or chromium's background notifications system
<SuperEngineer> ABC - that icon is usually associated with Chrome
<ABC> chrome as in google?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> hover your mouse over it & it will let you know
<popey> its chrome
<ABC> when i hover over it doesnt show anything
<diddledan> who fancies a go on this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhAGGnDmfE
<MooDoo> is that the ferrari ride in dubai?  not watched it al yet
<diddledan> MooDoo: yeah
<MooDoo> hehe looks ace.
<ABC> no, anyone fancies going to chernobyl? Its a awesome place to explore
<diddledan> looks petrifying
<diddledan> in an awesome way
<MooDoo> i'd love a go
<MooDoo> I like the ride rita queen of speed at alton towers, it's similar but a lot slower :)
<MooDoo> 240km/h
<andylockran> popey its still dead :(
<popey> using original charger?
<popey> not some crappy one or a pc?
<popey> ABC: click it
<ABC> i clicked
<popey> what do you see?
<ABC> Thunderbird    Compose new message    contracts      clear
<Azelphur> Guys, I have officially broke Google
<diddledan> Azelphur: you searched for google didn't you?!
<Azelphur> Image search, no matter what I search, comes up with no results, doesn't matter what browser, what searched term.
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> ABC: fun
<Azelphur> diddledan: tried it on a totally different machine: same result
<Azelphur> xD
<ABC> fun? and holy moly the time is 9:08!
<ABC> i thought it was 8:08
<andylockran> original charger.
<diddledan> who's upgraded yet? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/ubuntu-15-04-release-schedule-date-vivid-vervet
<diddledan> :-p
<Azelphur> what happens when we get to Z?
<diddledan> Azelphur: we have to start thinking of adjectives and animals beginning with the number 1
<Azelphur> we could use leet speak
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> just. no.
<Azelphur> 1iv3ly 1im4
<Azelphur> :D
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> this just melted my brain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfzZZ-Z8eQc
<m0nkey_> 14.04 is working for me
<m0nkey_> no upgrading yet
<diddledan> this is a new SaaS on me: https://6px.io/
<awilkins> Amazing Albatross
<daftykins> there is no point going non-LTS indeed, a fact very few that come in #ubuntu seem to grasp
<awilkins> Awesome Artichoke
 * awilkins likes Utopic
<daftykins> like it? based on what?
<awilkins> It's not terrible?
<daftykins> so it functions? :D
<awilkins> It works and it has a bunch of teensy improvements
<awilkins> Which is pretty much what you want from a new release
<awilkins> My favourite change is the new version of gnome-terminal
<awilkins> It reflows the buffer when you resize it
<awilkins> Like I said, teensy improvements
<awilkins> I don't suppose anyone invented a way of making Debian packages that isn't horribly tedious and annoying?
<diddledan> awilkins: I've not looked into how easy it is, but this comes out of my memory from a long-forgotten conference video: https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-19
<awilkins> Hmm. Wonder if it will magically update existing packages
<awilkins> (hahahahahahah)
<directhex> https://vote.debian.org/~secretary/gr_initcoupling/results.png
<diddledan> directhex: is that the results of their voting?
<daftykins> that looks like the creation of a madman
<diddledan> so out of discussion they've decided to discuss
<daftykins> i don't understand that image at all XD
<diddledan> nor me - the numbers don't add up
<directhex> condorcet voting
<diddledan> I think the arrows are back-asswards
<directhex> the arrows mean "more votes than". so the one with only outwards arrows won.
<diddledan> so they've decided to not do anything?
<directhex> or just go with the score. higher score = better. 3.77 was highest
<diddledan> i.e. general resultion not required
<directhex> diddledan, basically, yes
<diddledan> spelign
<daftykins> does that mean "nothing needs to be done" ? :P
<diddledan> I guess that means systemd is still going to be implemented as the only initd?
<directhex> it means the previous TC vote stands
<directhex> which said systemd by default, others ideally supported as alternatives
<diddledan> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/certificate-authority-encrypt-entire-web
<awilkins> Oh dear, if that works, Verisign and the like will be weeing their pants
<awilkins> Ugh, I hate Ant builds
<awilkins> Especially ones that use jars without version numbers on them
<awilkins> *stabs Ant*
<awilkins> Beditme
<map> hi all
<diddledan> morning
<map> anyone watch gotham ? on e3
<map> also anyone watch the vids vice make and ut on youtube? some interesting videos thats for sure
<Myrtti> morning UK
<zmoylan-pi> greetings earthlings
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> map, yeah i watch Gotham.. good series so far
<MooDoo> i watched the first ep, not seen anything after that.
<diplo> I'm enjoying it so far
<MooDoo> so many things i'm watching at the moment though
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo how are you today
<MooDoo> knightwise: i'm very well thanks mate, what about your good self?
<knightwise> doin ok  preparing a talk on the importance of open source application design for a barcamp tomorrow
<MooDoo> cool :)
<knightwise> yep , trying to crunch it down into a 20 minute talk with as few slides as possible
<zmoylan-pi> more glove puppets :-)
<MooDoo> knightwise: just use two, hello i am and bye :D
<knightwise> LOL :) good idea
<knightwise> googled up an interesting document about the pyramid principle
<knightwise> its a way of storytelling .. interesting stuff
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<knightwise> lord popey  !
<popey> word
<bashrc> morning all
<knightwise> hey bashrc
<DJones> bigcalm: Whats up, couldn't you sleep? You don't normally say that until about 3pm
<bigcalm> :P
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Have A Bad Day Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> if you have a bad day day does that mean it's a good day?
<JamesTait> That'd be a bad bad day, surely?
 * zmoylan-pi buys lottery ticket and makes offering to gods of fortune
<awilkins> Gah, just worked out how to get NetworkManager to connect to more than one VPN at once
<awilkins> Open "Network" settings dialog. Enable VPN connections from there
<awilkins> For some reason the NM tray applet greys out the menu items for the other VPN connections when you connect one
<awilkins> That's just ANNOYING
 * JamesTait is reminded he has a VPN to set up.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<popey> 37
<brobostigon> 42
<foobarry> bingo!
<bigcalm> Is there a way to see if traffic is going via a VPN or via the 'net at large?
<awilkins> Traceroute?
<Myrtti> nethog
 * popey installs nethogs
<popey> ooh thats neato
<intrbiz> bigcalm: look at the routing table on the device terminating the vpn: ip route show
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you can also use wireshark / tcpdump to see which interface the traffic is going out on
<foobarry> and iptraf
<foobarry> and mtr
<bigcalm> I'm using mtr
<foobarry> popey: are you on ubuntu mate team now?
<foobarry> http://www.itworld.com/article/2848475/ubuntu-mate-enterprise-customers.html
<popey> I kinda started it, so yeah â»
<foobarry> heh
<MooDoo> Can't say i've used it yet
<daftykins> a friend jumped at the chance when i mentioned it
<MooDoo> lts normal will do me for now
<daftykins> i like the way that guy refers to it running on a Pentium III with 512MB RAM
<daftykins> i'm not sure i'd force my worst enemies into that situation
<awilkins> Anyone know a way to block *outgoing* profanity in XChat ?
<awilkins> Like, sometimes I accidentally swear in here
<awilkins> I have channels open where swearing is part of the culture
<daftykins> lol
<awilkins> And then we have channels where it's not
<awilkins> Like this one, like any channel I'm conducting business on
<awilkins> I guess I could write some kind of plugin like an incoming profanity filter in reverse
<popey> I have Ubuntu MATE running on a thinkpad here. It's really nice.
<foobarry> do you still use unity much?
<popey> of course
<popey> my main machine is running unity
<popey> I haven't stopped using unity since it came out
<awilkins> Does Ubuntu MATE put the window chrome buttons on the left like Unity?
<popey> no
<awilkins> I confess, I've got used to that and even think it makes more sense than the right
<popey> yeah, its funning how the whole bruhaha happened over that
<awilkins> You close an app, the next thing you do is open another
<daftykins> that's the stockholm syndrome ;)
<awilkins> Makes sense with the dash / start menu / whatever being close to the close button
<awilkins> Windows has the absolute worst config with Start bottom left and close top right
<awilkins> The furthest distance to move your mouse
<awilkins> Unity : Combatting RSI since <whenever>
<daftykins> you actually use the mouse to do that? interesting
<awilkins> Not always
<popey> many people do.
<awilkins> Exactly
<popey> keyboard shortcuts are alien to normals
<awilkins> If you don't, then you don't care
<awilkins> If you do, then it matters
<daftykins> yeah, them pesky normals
<daftykins> i do remember a non-tech type saying it's a bit odd with Windows that you go to "start" to stop the machine
<daftykins> :>
<awilkins> That was easy compared to how it was on Windows 8 to start wiht
<daftykins> haha yeah, i had to look that up!
<daftykins> it was as though they sacked every UX designer they had
<awilkins> I mean, MS even has a VIDEO of how to do it now
<awilkins> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/how-shut-down-turn-off-pc
<awilkins> A 43 second video
<awilkins> With three different ways to do it
<awilkins> ARRRGH
<zmoylan-pi> and you probably need to install a different media player to view it...
<foobarry> and it has weezer singing a song
<awilkins> No, actually works here on Firefox
<zmoylan-pi> or at least 1gb of updates and sp
<awilkins> Although ... if you hit META and type "Power off" or "shut down" into the dash, it doesn't offer the option
<awilkins> That's a small omission in Unity methinks
 * zmoylan-pi misses the days when the power button was a power button
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: do i detect the air of bias and cynicism in your comments? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> just a smidge
<daftykins> Unity and 8 are equally ridiculous to me
<diddledan> the power button is often suspend I guess, but it does reduce power usage and make the pc appear to turn off
<awilkins> I hate that as default config
<awilkins> UNity at least has that right - powerbutton summons the "What KIND of shutdown do you want" thing
<zmoylan-pi> i have never used suspend intentionally, waste of battery/power
<awilkins> Yeah - the default mode for Windows is a poor choice for laptops
<awilkins> i) It sucks the battery power
<awilkins> ii) At some indeterminate point it does a hibernate
<awilkins> Which is a terrible idea on a laptop
<awilkins> Having your laptop power up in your laptop bag where it can't vent heat
<awilkins> And spinning a disk on something that may be moving rapidly and subject to shocks
<daftykins> why would it power up?
<zmoylan-pi> and sucking in all the bag fuzz to clog vents too
<awilkins> To do a hibernate
<diddledan> I don't like the installation routing of ubuntu finishing and saying "would you like to reboot or continue using the live dvd?" when you click reboot it doesn't immediately reboot instead offering you the standard "would you like to power off or reboot?" screen
<awilkins> Hibernate saves the RAM state to disk
<daftykins> power up to hibernate? wat
<zmoylan-pi> when the battery gets low the laptop will power up to hibernate
<zmoylan-pi> while in suspend
<popey> I just tap the power button to shutdown
<popey> have done for years
<awilkins> I do that for laptops now
<daftykins> i'm thoroughly aware of how power management operates, but why on earth are you surrendering such control to Windows defaults 0o
<awilkins> Oh, I don't
<awilkins> Windows is no longer in charge of any of the hardware I run
<popey> daftykins: power up to hibernate is a useful trick
<awilkins> It's confined to VMs like it should be
<daftykins> power up from what though, sleep? i don't see how this ever happens
<popey> yes
<popey> OSX does it too
<awilkins> Oh, except my main desktop where I have a dualboot for games
<popey> I dont think Linux ever got it working
<daftykins> OSX doesn't even let you disable lid close sleep in the GUI, that's a crime
<awilkins> Urrgh
<awilkins> I like to rest my laptop on a pedestal and RDP / SSH / Whatever into it
<diddledan> daftykins, osx will stay turned-on if you leave it plugged-in
<awilkins> With the lid closed
<daftykins> i think the only time i use suspend is if i'm going out for an hour and know i'll be back
<daftykins> like if i pop out into town beside me here
<diddledan> said arnie
<daftykins> I'll be Bach.
<popey> wifey leaves her mbp suspended all the time. i suspend my laptop and desktop all the time.
 * popey â¥ Fn+F4
<foobarry> i used to turn my phone off completely at night
<popey>  12:12:50 up 9 days,  3:57,  4 users,  load average: 0.60, 0.73, 0.84
<popey> on my laptop
<popey> usually longer, think I had a catastrophic failure last week.
<daftykins> there's something odd about being sent an email to confirm you've been unsubscribed from something
<awilkins> Can someone go to https://appear.in/horse-meat  with Chromium or Chrome and see if they can get their camera / mic to work?
<awilkins> I can get it to work in Firefox
<awilkins> BUT
<awilkins> The screen sharing only works in Chrome
<diplo> On linux specifically ? No camera/mic on my Linux PC
<awilkins> diplo, Could you try it in Windows?
<awilkins> I should install Chrome in my Windows VM..
<awilkins> I can't get the "access camera / mic : allow" permissions to work
<awilkins> They show up in the relevant dialogs and settings pages
<awilkins> but when you visit the page you get the "no access" icon on the right of the address bar and it doesn't work
<awilkins> Even if you allow it right there and reload the page
<diplo> OK I', om tjere
<daftykins> i've got chrome on Windows open
<daftykins> awilkins: just got a massive 'connecting to server...' message here
<awilkins> Yeah, me too
<daftykins> there we go it's asking for access to my devices
<awilkins> Trying it on Firefox
<awilkins> Firefox works for the devices
<awilkins> But no screen sharing plugin for it
<daftykins> do you want to see a screenie of what it looks like at this point?
<awilkins> Mine is now waiting
<diplo> Asks me to install a screen sharing pluging
<diplo> I'm still all alone
<diplo> :(
<awilkins> I'm coming in
<daftykins> "preparing..."
<awilkins> "Preparing : Hang on on tight"
<daftykins> it's umm
<awilkins> Perhaps they have capacity issues
<daftykins> a rapid experience
<awilkins> It worked fine yesterday
<diplo> I went straight in pretty much
<diplo> No real issues
<diplo> Excuse me if you catch me eaating :P
<awilkins> Ta
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i feel like staying on so diplo doesn't feel disappointed
<awilkins> Linux needs more WebConf love
<awilkins> WebEx : works (mostly) if you prepare a special 32-bit Java and Firefox environment for it
<awilkins> GotoMeeting : until recently, no chance
<awilkins> But I hear they have a WebRTC client done or in the pipe
<diplo> Mine has gone to Connecting to server now
<awilkins> appear.in : uses WebRTC so should be perfect
<daftykins> woohoo
<daftykins> diplo: don't worry i'm still there! :)
<awilkins> But no screen sharing except Chrome
<awilkins> And Chrom(e|ium) doesn't  work for me here
<diplo> You're there now and I can't reconnect
<diplo> Seems to be limited to 1 person
<awilkins> May get out my 14.10 laptop and try that
<awilkins> But first, lunch
<daftykins> diplo: ah, not working then?
<daftykins> ah well i shall close it now
<diplo> Nope still connecting
<diplo> Sorry went to get a brew
 * popey tries to remember how he last copied windows from disk to disk using gparted
<popey> might have used dd last time I did it
<popey> want to move last remaining windows pc from spinning rust to SSD
<daftykins> clonezilla \o/
<daftykins> i did a couple of SSD upgrades for a friend and his missus recently, used a bootable clonezilla on a flash drive to shift them over
<daftykins> it's better than dd since i think it was wise enough to only copy actual data
<diplo> Got syncthing working between home server and work PC, now going to try windows PC and work PC
<popey> \o/
<popey> I do love syncthing
<diplo> Defo easier to use since the last time I used it
<foobarry> knives are out for bill cosby
<popey> why?
<diplo> Guessing the why wasn't at me ?
<diplo> Next issue is to get all 3 devices to start on boot/restart etc
<foobarry> Janice Dickinson accuses Bill Cosby of drugging and sexually assaulting her
<diplo> But  Iguess I should do some work in between
<foobarry> She is fifth woman to publicly accuse the comedian and actor of sexual abuse.
<popey> blimey
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30100973
<popey> lulz
<popey> 100Â£ fine for leaving bad reviews
<popey> we should do that in Ubuntu :D
<foobarry> "aid the details of the charge were in the booking documents, but his wife did not have her glasses on and signed it without reading the small print."
<foobarry> if you download ubuntu for free you will fix 5 bugs in the first year of use or it will delete all your datas
<diplo> I now have the same Calibre Library on 3 machines, just need to sort the laptop out at home
<foobarry> the hotel plan has backfired
<foobarry> as most people will now remember it as a rotten stinking hovel
<foobarry> have just finished re-reading the whole hitchhikers guide series
<DJones> popey: Have you seen this article http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/jolla-tablet-linux-based-os-crowdfunding thought it might be of interest to you
<popey> yeah, been keeping an eye on it today
<popey> went from 0 to target in 2.5 hours
<DJones> Looks interesting, although nothing new (from whats in the article) compared to other tablets
<popey> well, the sailfish bit is new
<DJones> Price looks good, and if its linux compatible, in theory, ubuntu shouldn't take too long for somebody to work out how to install
<daftykins> yay another swathe of youngsters shall flood #ubuntu asking how to mod their tablets
 * daftykins groans
<DJones> daftykins: Just point them to #ubuntu-touch popey can deal with them then
<popey> heh
<popey> thats usually what happens
<DJones> Probably still a bit of a speciality area
<daftykins> oh, that's the plan yeah ;)
<DJones> The average, even experienced Ubuntu user probably has little knowledge of tablet releases
<popey> I'd quite like Ubuntu on my hudl2
<DJones> I'm still trying to poke a broken N7 to see I can fire it into life to put ubuntu on
<daftykins> DJones: heh, is it one of those ones with the bad battery connector?
<DJones> Don't think so, it just died, can get to the system screen, but can't force a reset or anything, beyond that it doesn't do anything
<daftykins> a friend had one that'd been dead for months, i looked it up and suggested he pop the back panel off and check this connector
<daftykins> it was working again within 30 mins \o/
<DJones> Trying to force the battery to run down completely to see if 0 power followed by a recharge would work
<DJones> It seems to charge ok, just won't go into a reset mode
<daftykins> oic
<foobarry> find it interesting how these indian fellows who stumble into -uk always attach themselves to popey like a limpet
<daftykins> :D haha yes they do
<foobarry> its a bit of a free for all in here really
<daftykins> although it doesn't help that 3+ of us are all throwing instructions at once
<foobarry> if you are helping someone, and someone else has a suggestion, then go for it
<foobarry> often it does help though
<foobarry> obviously not bombarding
<popey> hehe
<daftykins> nah trust me, when someone's treading on my toes in #ubuntu it can be seriously rage inducing
<daftykins> especially as invariably they have very different approaches to the same issue
<foobarry> but other chans as soon as someone answers you, if they don't know the answer, you have to go away for a day and try again, because nobody else will touch it
<foobarry> #ubuntu is a motorwy though, you need highlights for every thing typed
<foobarry> i mean nicks
<foobarry> low traffic chans should allow multi assist
<daftykins> but that's how you know when someone's helping someone already :)
<daftykins> well if you look back to yesterday when that chap came in, nothing was getting followed
<daftykins> it was pretty painful
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> we used to have another guy come in and just ask for opopey
<foobarry> and wouldn't accept help from anyone else
<daftykins> sounds like saafiyah ;)
<foobarry> maybe dvrr, i can't remember
<daftykins> ever since popey helped with a custom EDID she was smitten :>
<foobarry> did the rasp pi cluster ever get finished?
<foobarry> "build cluster"
<daftykins> the other Alans seem suspiciously quiet actually
<daftykins> not seen TheOpenSourcerer in a while either
<foobarry> maybe they have been enslaved by it
<foobarry> is anyone using chromecasts in an office encironment to throw their desktop onto a screen in ad-hoc fashion?
<daftykins> if anyone sees them in hats with the 'pi' symbol on, it's time for an intervention :)
<MooDoo> what a day what a day
<daftykins> oh?
 * zmoylan-pi has been thinking a a+ in a baseball cap with a hud of some sort...
<MooDoo> daftykins: just a busy one
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> i'm open to trades... i have nothing on right now
<daftykins> :>
<MooDoo> lol :) access + label printer...;)
<daftykins> that's what you're up to? you're on your own!
<MooDoo> lol
<daftykins> mmm lunch
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4gp3gsi3fb4pyd/IMG_20141119_140545.jpg?dl=0
<SuperMatt> that's not a lunch, that's the starter I have with my lunch
<daftykins> yeah it is but part of it :)
<daftykins> i have some welsh cakes downstairs
<awilkins> Welshcakes nom
<MooDoo> bacon and cheese turnover i've just had
<daftykins> hmm interesting
<daftykins> i was going to be good and walk to the supermarket to buy sandwich provisions, but instead i want to yet another sandwich bar and bought a lattÃ©, bounty choc bar and that panini for Â£7 odd
<MooDoo> need to drive to the nearest aldi i do,
 * zmoylan-pi hiked to tescos and bought spaghetti and bogroll.
 * awilkins bought 2 reduced steak pasties and a christmas cake bar
<awilkins> And 3 bottles of cider
<awilkins> Cider is for LATER
 * awilkins lug lug lug
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i always wonder when combining toilet paper with a single other item, whether the cashiers think that you predict trouble
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> yes i believe the thing to do is buy nappies and vodka and when told the price ask for just the vodka :-p
 * daftykins doesn't follow
<zmoylan-pi> the look of disgust when you leave with the vodka and not the nappies...
<daftykins> i need to carry on with that edX Linux course
<daftykins> not touched it since i got out of hospital
<zmoylan-pi> hope you're feeling better
<daftykins> yeah pretty much back to normal now thanks :)
<daftykins> last night i rode to the pub quiz 3 miles away and back for the first time
<daftykins> still can't move my right arm behind my back as much as my left can, due to the shoulder blade break, but meh who does that :D
<zmoylan-pi> but you'll never be able to use the phrase 'with one hand tied behind my back' with out clarification :-p
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> here have some geek porn
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7upq3eh9eqv718t/IMG_20140518_195643.jpg?dl=0
<bashrc> too many drives
<daftykins> 5 in the enclosure at the bottom
<daftykins> the 6 at the top are the old array, i don't even run that anymore
<daftykins> 6 x 1TB disks doing nothing ;x
<daftykins> they've mostly all been spinning 24x7 for 6 years though, so they'll probably die soon
<zmoylan-pi> in return for your geek porn, 2 business near me that shouldn't be side by side... https://www.dropbox.com/s/5kb0d4z1icmn9iq/Photo-0048.takeaway%20n%20vet.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hahaha nice
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: reminds me of the classic "no we no see your cat, stop asking"
<zmoylan-pi> and don't be shortsighted when dropping off kitty...
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> speaking of kitty, she wasn't letting me type yesterday
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/llwm86xw9dzqznz/IMG_20141117_225208.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> Monday, rather
<zmoylan-pi> laptops give off heat, you can see the moggies confusion
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a evernote client they use?
<foobarry> non-web
<popey> i use the web â»
<foobarry> can't export to pdf :S
<foobarry> hmm geeknote looks interseting for other uses
<foobarry> edit evernotes with vim/etc
<daftykins> aww yeah just helped setup Google Apps... in German
<foobarry> evrpad has unity lens if you like that kind of thing
<Azelphur> How do I defrag a NTFS partition on Linux?
<daftykins> is it really worth risking?
<awilkins> Azelphur, Make a Windows VM. Mount the partition as a physical volume in the VM. Use the Windows defrag util.
<Azelphur> daftykins: yup, there's practically no data on the drive and no windows partition
<daftykins> no windows partition? huh? oh it's a pure data NTFS volume?
<popey> Azelphur: copy stuff off, copy it back on.
<Azelphur> popey: I actually really need NTFS defrag, I have some very weird circumstances
<popey> well copy off,delete, copy on will defrag it
<Azelphur> popey: it doesn't, at least not according to the drive
<Azelphur> since I just made a brand new partition and copied files onto it and it's still demanding I defrag
<popey> whats demanding it?
<daftykins> isn't there a package of kinda windowsy disk utils?
<daftykins> no idea if defrag is a part of that
<Azelphur> popey: http://www.zalman.com/global/product/Product_Read.php?Idx=674
<popey> ah that
<Azelphur> popey: the images on the drive need to be continuous in order for it to work
<popey> yes, i had that too
<popey> copy one file onto it at a time
<Azelphur> popey: ah, thanks :)
<popey> np
<daftykins> defrag definitely wouldn't have sorted that methinks
<directhex> i don't think linux has an ntfs fscker
<daftykins> and the pheasant fscker is busy
 * daftykins whistles
<daftykins> is it me, or vmware... that dragging windows to the left and right of your desktop in 14.04 unity requires more than just letting go of the mouse button once the orangey box appears to suggest your window will be snapped to 50% of your visible desktop?
<daftykins> seems you have to click too
<aquarius> daftykins, I can confirm that it doesn't happen if you're not in vmware, so I suspect it's a vmware issue
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> heh, this edX course is talking about "pushd" and "popd" - i can't think of how those would ever be useful
<popey> heh
 * popey read a script by aquarius which used push and pop just yesterday
<popey> which turned into a blog post
<daftykins> :O
<aquarius> I properly love pushd
<aquarius> use it *all the time*
 * popey fondly remembers push and pop in his Z80 days
<daftykins> i don't hugely get it, you're adding a stack of directories - fair enough, but they disappear when you switch to another
<daftykins> i thought it would be useful maybe if you permanently kept that list, sort of like 'bookmarks' that you can then repeatedly jump between
<daftykins> but what's the use if you're removing it from the list immediately?
<popey> you only need them temporarily
<popey> more ephermeral than bookmarks
<aquarius> ya
<aquarius> I'm in the middle of doing something, so I'm in ~/Projects/Something, and I think: hm, I want to check my pictures for a thing. It might take a bunch of commands, so I don't want to have to do "command ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/*.jpg" over and over, because typing the ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/ every time is annoying
<aquarius> so I pushd ~/Pictures/Somepics/Whatever/
<aquarius> do the commands
<aquarius> then popd
<aquarius> and I'm back where I was
<aquarius> it basically saves you one command: cd ~/back/to/where/I/was, plus the mental energy required to *remember* where you were
<aquarius> neither are hugely significant, but, hey, I use ls rather than reading stuff out of /dev/kmem for the same reason ;)
<daftykins> would that not be more relevant to a 2+ directory scenario, since "cd -" could've sufficed?
<aquarius> huh
<aquarius> might have, if I'd known that existed :)
<daftykins> in fairness it's a new one on me XD
<aquarius> I think I've pushd'ed two levels deep once :)
<daftykins> that's why i'm doing this course, despite being an intro it's got some gems
<daftykins> ooh i like this file streams and IO redirection section
<daftykins> 1) cat goes outside 2) cat comes to window 3) cat paws at window wanting to be inside
<DJones> daftykins: Get a dog, 1) Dog goes outside, 3( Owner goes to door, 3) Owner goes outside to fetch dog in
<DJones> s/3(/2)/
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> Oh and if you get the dog, your 1/2/3 would stop at 2 with 3 changing to cat hides up a tree
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3qj9v4p5ckqien/IMG_20141119_205927.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> this is a bit of a hinderance to study
<daftykins> there's only so long i can practice the 'cat' command *whistle*
<shauno> kill (1)             - send a signal to a process
<daftykins> you want me to kill cat ? D:
<shauno> it's badly named .. there's more than one signal you can send :)
<daftykins> where did you paste that from?
<intrbiz> daftykins: man page probably
<intrbiz> you could always: cat < poke
<daftykins> man kill cat
<intrbiz> :)
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: :D
<shauno> daftykins: that was 'apropos kill', hence the awkward gap.  it's the same content as the first line of the manpage though
<intrbiz> reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW-kjpZPTnw
<daftykins> that was terrible :(
<popey> \o/ dd success
<daftykins> but all those wasted writes :(
<popey> dont care â»
<daftykins> it'd be relevant were it an SSD
<popey> it is an ssd
<daftykins> guess it's not the end of the world :P
<popey> not had an ssd fail yet
<daftykins> that's not really what that's getting at
<daftykins> hmm that's enough education for tonight
<daftykins> now i know how to use 'find' :O
<shauno> I'm still not convinced anyone knows how to use find :)
<daftykins> i shall use it the best by not desiring to find things, ever
<daftykins> we'll see how long that works out for
<awilkins_> So apropos only works on locally installed man pages?
<awilkins_> What was the thing that recommends packages that you don't have installed?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-20
<Azelphur> daftykins: was it you that wanted to know about the Zalman? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTWxBCJ2pGw
<daftykins> yes sir!
<Azelphur> well there you go :)
<daftykins> it's oo-boon-too sir ;)
 * daftykins ducks
<Azelphur> meh :p
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm also guilty of continually saying "LUA"
<daftykins> what's that one?
<Azelphur> it's not an abbreviation, so it's Lua.
<daftykins> how was boot speed?
<Azelphur> daftykins: seems perfectly fine, I'm doing it over USB 3
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> be neat with an SSD in :>
<Azelphur> indeed, I was tempted
<popey> yeah, i put an ssd in mine
<popey> feels like an internal disk
<popey> over usb3
<shauno> Azelphur: the vid with the multicoloured uplighter, and the TV that sounds like it's in pain?  what light are you using for that?
<Azelphur> shauno: http://easybulb.com
<Azelphur> shauno: the tl;dr on them is they are brighter than the hues, the Android app isn't perfect, however they have one hell of a well documented API with everything from Excel Macros to Python examples
<Azelphur> also, you can't get the on/off status of the lights, and you can only on/off groups of lights, and you can only have 4 groups per wifi box.
<shauno> yeah, I have the hues.  but I've noticed you can't run through settings that fast
<Azelphur> shauno: oh yea, these things are ridiculously fast
<shauno> if you send the same bulb commands faster than ~2sec apart, it just junks them
<Azelphur> shauno: heck, you could probably flood these things with 100 req/second and they'd be ok
<Azelphur> In fact, I'm going to test this, for science.
<shauno> it's not really a huge issue, it just cropped up as an odd edge case when I was writing a script to link them to xbmc
<shauno> I had them dimming when you hit play and reverting when you hit pause (or playback ended).  but if you hit pause again before you were 'allowed' to send the bulb another command, it wouldn't un-dim
<Azelphur> shauno: yea I seem to get 3 changes a second pretty easy
<shauno> (also mild annoyance that you can only send one command in each call.  you can send it to multiple bulbs, but only if you're sending them the same values)
<shauno> which was my attempt at 'cheating' reverting settings.  ask for their status, store the whole json blob, and just send it back to revert.  doesn't work - I have to slice it up and send each bulb back seperately.
<Azelphur> lame
<Azelphur> shauno: I really like these though as I say, they give the hue a run for its money for sure, and they are around a quarter of the price
<shauno> and they appear to actually ship bayonet fittings, which is a nice touch
<Azelphur> indeed
<shauno> (hue have no options for fitting, just edison screw)
<Azelphur> they actually seem to have a really good selection of fittings
<Azelphur> they had my friends tiny edison screw for a lamp shade (E11 or something iirc)
<Azelphur> E14, that's the one
<shauno> I think these are e22. (which is a silly name, but ..)
<shauno> pretty standard metric fail.  1" edison is 22mm :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> the api is quite friendly at least though, it's just json over http
<shauno> unlike the belkin one, which I just gave up on
<shauno> (it appears to be upnp that's been implemented so badly that you can't use upnp libs, they won't respond to well-formed requests.  so you have to try to emulate their brain damage)
<map> hi a;ll
<zmoylan-pi> greetings
<map> usual characters awake
<map> is daftykins  up eh
<Myrtti> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> everyone ok today?
<Myrtti> trying to think of ways how to make a stinky fan oven less stinky
<MooDoo> ewww
<Myrtti> it was a good purchase, too bad it just... stinks.
<bigcalm> Myrtti: new stink or old stink?
<Myrtti> old stink... previous owner didn't use it much so it looks brand new inside... too bad he was a smoker too...
<bigcalm> :(
<MooDoo> oh i think you'll really struggle to get rid of old smoke smell
<czajkowski> Gooooodo morning!
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<foobarry> Myrtti: make a new stink :P
<bigcalm> directhex: playing Sunburn and turned the volume up on my soundbar. It actually scared me and I couldn't bring myself to max out the volume
<foobarry> you could probably rub the interior down with a lemon too
<foobarry> http://www.thekitchn.com/getting-rid-of-fish-smells-180380
<czajkowski> Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day! Hug an Ubuntu Community member today and let them know you like their work! wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
<Myrtti> two first ones we already tried. Instead of vanilla we used vanilla coffee.
<Myrtti> will try baking soda tonight
<bigcalm> Baking a can of coke?
 * bigcalm takes things literally for comic effect
<foobarry> my friend put some micro-chips in the microwave for $LONGTIME and left the house and forgot them
<foobarry> opened the mwave to find burnt out remains, a la timebandits (PURE EVIIIL)
<foobarry> tooks me forever to get rid of burnt smell
<BigRedS> I once used the oven for some injection moulding. That smell lingered
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> plastic?
<Myrtti> foobarry: I'd rather have that smell than this
<foobarry> DIY airfix?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Use Less Stuff Day! :D
<czajkowski> JamesTait: no no no
<czajkowski> it's hapy Ubuntu appreciate day
<czajkowski> go give someone a hug
 * JamesTait hugs czajkowski
<czajkowski> JamesTait: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
 * czajkowski hugs JamesTait 
<foobarry> 2 colleagues had D+V this week, so might not hug anyone
<JamesTait> czajkowski, it concerns me that I'm only learning about this now.
<czajkowski> JamesTait: for shame
<czajkowski> go hang your head and sit on the naughty step with davmor2
 * MooDoo hugs everyone.
<popey> i only know because its in my company calendar
<MooDoo> join #naughtystep
<MooDoo> oops lol
<MooDoo> yeah he's still there
<MooDoo> i forgot that channel was still active :D  all thanks to czajkowski  :D
<czajkowski> lol
 * czajkowski hugs popey thanks for the intro 
<MooDoo> JamesTait: come join us :D
<JamesTait> popey, you have a company calendar?
<foobarry> whats the best approach for storing files on a network drive in encrypted form, but easy to read/write
<Laney> haha
<Laney> JamesTait has everything written on the back of his never washed hand
<JamesTait> Laney, sounds legit.
 * MooDoo makes a mental note never to shake the hand of JamesTait 
<BigRedS> foobarry: yeah, but the first few were trial runs with a glue gun...
<popey> JamesTait: â»
<JamesTait> popey, is this one of those things you get when you visit the office?
<popey> Technically it's in Daniel Holbach's calendar
 * popey can't tell if JamesTait is being sarcastic or obtuse...
<Laney> why isn't this on the ubuntu fridge calendar?
<JamesTait> YOU STOLE HIS CALENDAR?
<JamesTait> Laney, well it strikes me that it really should be in a calendar that I'm subscribed to somewhere.
<popey> indeed
<Laney> Fo shiz
<Laney> so I would have thought it would be here http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
 * Laney joins #ubuntu-news-team(????)
<Laney> s/-team//
<czajkowski> I think dholbach can add to the fridge
<czajkowski> give him a hug and see :)
<Laney> I'm sure news guys will give me a news shaped hug and I'll feel all newsy again
 * czajkowski hugs Laney 
<czajkowski> it's all about the  hugging, forget that base it's the huggin!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> ah blue jeans how you munch thorugh my cpu chomp chomp chomp
<foobarry> always unfortunate when using ctrl-R to search through mount command, then you press ctrl-C
<foobarry> no need to swear
<popey> never noticed that
<popey> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11240771/Britains-first-poo-bus-running-on-human-waste.html
<popey> route number two
<ujjain> how do I install my public key on a server without opening the authorized_keys file?
<foobarry> you want to add your key to authrized_keys without opening the file?
<ujjain> Yes.
<foobarry> you want to open a box without opening it...
<popey> you want to put something in the box without opening it
<foobarry> there are ways around it that involve editign the sshd_config file, but you have to ask the question, .....why ?
<ujjain> because I do it too much
<ujjain> I think ssh-copy-id was the command, right?
<foobarry> oh i see.
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/u-mop/what-every-guy-needs-what-every-girl-wants
<foobarry> you just want a process to do it.
<foobarry> yes, ssh-copy-id [-i [identity_file]] [user@]machine
<ujjain> ah ok, yeah, that seems a good hting to memorize
<foobarry> since turning 30-something i started sitting down to pee
<MooDoo> i used
<foobarry> if need=wee then if toilet then sit, else if urinal then stand
<DJones> foobarry: Get a commode, that'll save the walk to the bathroom as well
<foobarry> someone has to empty it
<foobarry> maybe get a spacesuit
<foobarry> soon all of london will travel to work wearing bio hazard suits anyway
<foobarry> bought ribena diet version by mistake :(
<foobarry> AKA more chemicals
<feisar> can anyone explain what the isw_system entries are in /dev/mapper? I have a strange issue where a failed disk on an on board hardware raid card causes Ubuntu to complain about a missing /boot partition
<popey> is it a real hardware raid card (like expensive one in a server) or is it a desktop-class one?
<feisar> desktop class
<daftykins> intel chipset?
<feisar> yeah
<popey> not hardware raid then.
<daftykins> !fakeraid
<lubotu3> Tips and tricks for RAID and LVM can be found on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SoftwareRAID and http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO - For software RAID, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto
<popey> i wonder if maybe your /boot was only on one of the disks?
<daftykins> when you combine booting from the same volume as a RAID config, here be dragons.
<daftykins> feisar: what are you running? two disks in RAID 1?
<feisar> what seems odd though is that I created the raid 1 in the BIOS then installed Ubuntu on what it saw as 1 disk
<feisar> I then removed a disk to test things and Ubuntu complained about missing /boot
<feisar> which makes no sense to me
<daftykins> i'm surprised it saw a single volume
<daftykins> normally that requires extra packages i thought
<feisar> well if I just hit 'S' for skip, the system then booted fine
<popey> dmraid is built in these days I think.
<daftykins> ah
<feisar> I did check /proc/mdstat and that shows nothing so as far as I was concerned the raid was being handled by the BIOS
<popey> that won
<popey> *wont
<popey> mdstat is when you use linux kernel based md raid
<popey> not fakeraid
<popey> confusingly called dmraid
<feisar> ah ok
<popey> personally if I were you I'd be inclined to use mdraid (or if you're brave/foolhardy btrfs)
<popey> fakeraid just isn't worth using
<feisar> yeah, I like Linux software RAID
<feisar> It's not entirely my decision though and I still don't really understand what's gone wrong!
<foobarry> so it loads grub?
<feisar> yum, the whole OS loads with just one disk, I just get an error during boot about /boot being missing
<feisar> *yup sorry
<popey> ahhh
<popey> thats different â»
<daftykins> must be lunch time ;)
<daftykins> feisar: have you poked around on each disk from a live session, if it's a RAID 1 on two disks?
<feisar> I haven't no
<Azelphur> popey: you have a G1W dashcam right?
<foobarry> also, since you're in the OS, can you paste the exact error?
<feisar> sorry I'm not in it currently and the error comes up on boot
<foobarry> and then it loads?
<foobarry> succesfully
<feisar> yes, I just have to press s to skip the attempt to mount /boot
<foobarry> it must mount /boot somewhere though
<feisar> I know it's very confusing, thanks for the info. I'm going to look in to it in a bit more detail....
<foobarry> check fstab
<foobarry> might have something to do with UUID
<feisar> fstab has an entry to mount boot from /dev/mapper/isw_cedifhahai_system1
<feisar> (which I don't understand either)
<foobarry> did you install from scratch?
<feisar> yes
<feisar> that entry in /dev/mapper only exists when the drive I took out, is back in
<feisar> I have never seen an entry like that before
<foobarry> something to do with multipathing perharps
<foobarry> you could eliminate it by specifying the UUID, but be careful
<foobarry> i would find some docs on teh web about it first
<feisar> thanks
<popey> Azelphur: yes
<Azelphur> popey: good? thinking of getting my dad one for christmas :)
<Azelphur> to expand, is it good
<popey> yeah, works okay.
<Azelphur> cool
<popey> i just leave it in the car
<Azelphur> popey: where'd you get it from? I hear there are a lot of fake ones floating about now days
<popey> i can't recall the last time I got the memory card out of it
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IPDD59W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<popey> thats the link from my previous orders page
<Azelphur> col
<Azelphur> cool*
<Azelphur> dunno if my dad could leave it in the car, already had one of their cars broken into
<Azelphur> popey: does it unclip easy from the mount?
<popey> yes, bit stiff though
<Azelphur> sounds good :)
<popey> check out the review on techmoan youtube channel
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo76bkytA3o
<Azelphur> tis between the G1W and the Zalman thing for my dads christmas present :p
<Azelphur> thanks :)
<Azelphur> Specifieatons hahaha
<popey> â»
<daftykins> ;]
<popey> might go and get the sd card out from it later, no idea how much video is on it
<daftykins> you don't live in Russia for the most amusing of dash cam vids ;)
<popey> indeed
<popey> dammit, date is wrong on all of them
<daftykins> doh!
<foobarry> just had to walk across campus to restart iptables because i did a flush without checking the default policy. :(
<foobarry> all because i lost about 4hrs sleep last night
<daftykins> whoops.
<daftykins> what ruined your sleep?
<foobarry> baby
<foobarry> wouldn't sleep
<foobarry> crying and stuff
<foobarry> not really a baby anymore at 20 months but meh
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> close enough ;)
<foobarry> yeah, doing baby things
<map>  hi alll=
<daftykins> heya
<map> laptop arrived
<map> in Malaga atm
<map> and 2 other parcels arrived:D but of course i missed both
<map> gotta go to post office & dhl..opposite directins of course
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> if the boss ever gets me to visit his pad in the south of spain, i'll fly through Malaga
<daftykins> my Spanish is non-existant though
<map> ;]
<map> si
<map> doz cerveza por favor
<map> :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> yeah i remember that much
<foobarry> having fun with bacula
<daftykins> that just makes me think of the Quantum Leap guy
<daftykins> Scott
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> and enterprise
<foobarry> i just have the OSS version
<zmoylan-pi> there's lots to dislike in enterprise but there are some good ideas rattling around in there
<foobarry> never seen any of them
<foobarry> only when my wife watches it i am aware of its presence
<zmoylan-pi> and since there's little else good scifi on i'll watch it
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much how i got into voyager
<feisar> popey: I think I've hit this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdadm/+bug/1318351
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1318351 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "mdadm doesn't assemble imsm raids during normal boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<daftykins> sounds about right
<daftykins> intel matrix storage manager
<foobarry> glitch in the matrix?
<daftykins> it happens when they change something
<bigcalm> Whomever was wondering if they should get a soundbar, they should. My goodness I'm wubbing the bass from this thing
<bigcalm> I have no idea why it should be allowed to have the volume so high though. I know I'm getting old and grouchy, but this could seriously damage my health
<Myrtti> I just hooked up a mini AVR to my sister's TV yesterday
<popey> i have two of those soundbars on my wishlist
<popey> one for my desk and one for the lounge
<popey> could happily have 3 though
<zmoylan-pi> 4 would be an extravagance :-p
<bigcalm> popey: 3rd for the bedroom?
<popey> 3rd for the TV in the den
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> Isn't your desk in the den?
<popey> yes
<popey> but i want a soundbar attached to pc
<popey> and one attached to tv
<popey> it only has one connector, right?
<foobarry> does soundbar have wireless power?
<popey> it has bluetooth
 * popey googles optical multiplexor
<foobarry> i mean, does it have mains power
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ex-Pro-Optical-TOSlink-SPDIF-Splitter/dp/B0018K7CMU hmmmm
<bigcalm> popey: if it's the same soundbar that I have bought, then it has 1 of each: USB, 3pin 3mm jack, optical
<bigcalm> popey: it comes with 2 phono to 1 3pin 3mm jack lead. Does not come with an optical lead
<popey> so i could use optical from pc and 3mm from telly
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> sweet!
<popey> would have to move it though
<bigcalm> And IR remote controll to switch inputs
<popey> <- pc     tv ->
<zmoylan-pi> and how does it decide which is played?
<zmoylan-pi> dynf :-)
<bigcalm> zmoylan-pi: see above
<map> HM
<Myrtti> hm indeed
<map> someone i know in UK asked if i can lend them Â£500 for their rent for a 'few weeks' ....hate being asked
<map> ive lent money once before for rent and never got it back
<map> so im inclined to think its a bad idea:)
<daftykins> indeed, that's never good :/
<map> yea
<daftykins> or just match payday loans rates ;)
<map> she said she was off sick for a week so no pau
<map> and her car broke down too
<daftykins> ah the classic tales of woe
<foobarry> mr wonga
<map> thing is she's got a partner..surelky between them they can get an overdraft or a loan?
<map> or friends or family or something?
<foobarry> are you the guy from the detectorists?
<foobarry> his ex-wife always asking for cash
<map> and failing that do what everyone else does and go to wonga or the like..if you havent got the money
<map> haha no
<map> when she said the car story too i was less inclined to believe her tbh
<map> ive lent money countless times and rarely get it back tbh
<map> the whole sob stories
<foobarry> compassion runs out after it is abused
<map> 'i cant feed my kid; then she phoned someone to buy cannabis after begging me for Â£50
<map> girl at uni begged for 250 for rent..then ignored every time i asked for it back
<map> i personally think it's rude to ask tbh
<map> i barely know her
<map> and isn't that what Wonga/QuickQuid are for? people who havent got the money/blew it/whatever
<christel> i don't think i'd want to see anyone i know get shafted by payday companies, i'd much sooner help them out myself i think
<map> but then what about the risk of not getting the money back
<map> people promise anything to get it..but later paying it back isnt so fun
<map> i just dont believe all the sob stories!
<christel> well, i tend to view it more like never lending anything unless i can afford to give it away
<map> yea
<map> i can afford to..but why should i:P its like when ive been out in town with girls ive met before and suddenly 'oh ive got no money on me can i borrow some' why come out without any money|?
<map> i prefer not to borrow:)
<zmoylan-pi> ask for collateral... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Crown_of_Russia#Time_in_Ireland
<daftykins> map: the worst is when they keep their optional habits going, whilst saying money is tight
<map> exactly
<daftykins> like - if you're not making enough to get by, you have to make personal sacrifices
<christel> yeah, claiming to be unable to feed your child and then feeding your drug habit instead is a bit shite
<map> i can afford it because i got my SLC refund / won a few grand last week / get good pay
<daftykins> i visited some friends in the US who were asking for money once i'd gone, wasn't good at all :(
<map> BUT that's my money ive earnt
<map> thing is realistically speaking if its only 500 she should be able to get an overdraft or a loan from HSBC or someone UNLESS they have awful credit
<map> in which case thats their own doing..and id never get money back myself:)
<map> and i agree christel wonga etc are awful..but then it's for people that cant be trusted to pay money back
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i think UK law has capped thosen ow?
<map> watch this chan5 show 'cant pay we'll take it away' everyone on there claims to have no idea aboiut the situation / getting a writ even though they havent paid rent for 12months+ they all pretend its not their fault
<map> yea but still higher than a normal bank
<map> but the reason they cant go to a bank is because they dont pay and mess people about;p
<christel> mmm -- mind, from what you are saying it doesn't sound so much as a close friend asking for you to help them get out of a transient cashflow period as a string of people attempting to take advantage of you because they perceive you to have enough money to "share"
<christel> and that's pretty uncool and doesn't make them come across as very nice people
<map> lol yea ive had that before
<map> 'you earn more than me you can pay' when we got like a 50 quid taxi from Uttoxeter racecourse
<map> pretty fair
<map> id have gotten it on my own had i known that stunt would be pulled:)
<map> good day all in all went to post office..got my myprotein order..got my iphone cales:D ..went to DHL got my sportsdirect order
<map> now just need my laptop
<map> gotta wait till mate comes to work with it
<map> people suck basically;p
<daftykins> i must tackle a large hill for the first time cycling again to head to my olds tonight
<map> my 'mate' went to canada with his girlfriend and wanted to borrow Â£1000 else he'd be short..so i did..got it back..but then he cant ever be bothered to go round and check on my house (lives like 3mins walk away)
<map> that irritates me beyond belief:)(
<bashrc> the lending industry - particularly the payday loans - are a scam
<map> yea
<bashrc> the companies don't have the money to lend. They just create it from nothing.
<map> i pay on credit card for everything..but i get cashback :D
<map> and m&s vouchers:D
<bashrc> when you examine how the money system works in detail it's all very suspect
<map> isnt there some odd thing like they can lend 10* what they have
<daftykins> map: this topic reminds me of being in Barcelona and a mate having his card robbed because he didn't take enough care with his clothing choices + wallet placement
<daftykins> i was nominated to pay for all his things after that but didn't even get a comment of thanks :P
<daftykins> ho-hum, i suppose none of us were going to exactly make him go hungry :D
<map> question how is the casino wifi so good? i can pick it up say 100ft away?
<map> across the marina
<map> and yet at the gym i can only get the wifi if i stand in one place
<daftykins> probably a very different class of hardware
<diplo> Proper AP's at casino, Â£50 ones at the gym probablty
<diplo> We must be right daftykins :D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> clearly we have great minds, sir
<shauno> saw that 'imitation game' movie on a whim - was surprised I hadn't heard of it.  wasn't half bad
<daftykins> recent, or old?
<daftykins> can't say i've heard that name
<bashrc> it was average
<shauno> quite recent, I think it came out in the last week or two
<popey> https://blackse.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/the-imitation-game-art-imitating-real-life/
<popey> read that review, was interesting to hear from someone involved in Bletchley
<bashrc> it was much better than the 2001 film "Enigma"
<shauno> yeah, that's pretty much it.  it misses bits, gets a few bits wrong, but is the best attempt I've seen yet
<bashrc> "Breaking the code" was also quite good. You can see it on the youtube
<diddledan> http://i.imgur.com/YWFLq.jpg
<diddledan> this is why we tell people viruses aren't an issue on linux :-p
<diddledan> also http://xkcd.com/1180/
<zmoylan-pi> people who think their computer has a virus do strange things to their pcs so obliquely the computer problem is 'caused' by a virus :-)
<diddledan> the general "media" used to blame viruses and malware for everything. now they're blaming the group known as "hackers(TM)"
<zmoylan-pi> i especially love the pics they run of the hooded hacker using laptop in the dark they all seem to favour
<diddledan> yup
<zmoylan-pi> yet none of the laptops is covered in stickers or food :-p
<bashrc> I always wear a black belaclava while using a laptop
<diddledan> usually he has a mask on. because obviously he needs to keep his appearance hidden while he's toiling away in a darkened bedroom with the curtains closed where nobody can see him
<zmoylan-pi> i just put a band aid on my webcam for privacy :-)
<diddledan> bashrc,  +1
<zmoylan-pi> ooo er, bashrc was just raided ;-)
<diddledan> I hope he still had his balaclava on
<zmoylan-pi> he's switched to the bobble hat his gran knitted to look less hackery...
<Dmon> I'm trying to reset my password through grub but when I type passwd <username> it comes up with a list of options. I'm new to ubuntu. What do I do to reset my password?
<popey> Dmon: are you following this guide? http://askubuntu.com/questions/24006/how-do-i-reset-a-lost-administrative-password
<popey> (you should, it's pretty good)
<popey> Dmon: it details how you get into recovery mode and how to change the password, it sounds like you're typing "passwd" at the wrong prompt, maybe too early in the process.
<popey> Dmon: Also, once you are fixed it would be super interesting to me to find out how you discovered this little chatroom on the internet. Did you follow a link from somewhere or did you know this place already?
<Azelphur> can anyone confirm that the libjack-dev package is broken on 14.10?
<popey> libjack-dev is already the newest version.
<popey> broken how?
<popey> just re-installed it and it seems okay
<Azelphur> popey: libjack-dev depends libjack0 (=1:0.124.1+20140122git5013bed0-3) but it is not going to be installed
<popey> you trying to install 32-bit version on 64-bit?
<Azelphur> popey: nope
<popey> what happens if you apt-get install both together - sudo apt-get install libjack-dev libjack0"
<Azelphur> popey: well, it looks happier, it also wants to remove libasound and skype.
 * Azelphur facedesks
<popey> which libasound package?
<popey> i also have libasound2 packages installed, and skype
<popey> so sounds like some funky breakage on your machine
<Azelphur> popey: http://pastebin.com/ssUvyAK5
<Azelphur> that's both problems :)
<popey> yes, you have skype:i386
<popey> so my initial assessment was right
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> 32-bit packages on 64-bit
<Azelphur> is there a 64bit version of Skype?
<popey> yes
<popey> its probably wrapping 32-bit binary
<popey> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/
<popey> i got mine there
<popey> 4.3.0.37-0ubuntu0.12.04.1
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> 127 alan@deep-thought:~â« file `which skype`
<popey> /usr/bin/skype: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=03f288a8ffc80a736102ae33db2951a957186eb7, stripped
<popey> yup
<popey> 32-bit binary in a 64-bit package, to work around this nonsense
<Azelphur> popey: where's the package in here? :)
<popey> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu utopic partner
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> stick that in sources.list, apt-get update then install it
<popey> it will probably be better to "sudo apt-get remove skype:i386" first though
<Azelphur> yea already done that :)
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> yup, seems to have solved it
<popey> \o/
<popey> good stuff
 * popey goes to get a beer to celebrate
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> Helping people install proprietary software since 2004.
<Azelphur> popey: amusingly this is all so I can get the PS3 controllers to work
<Azelphur> I wish bluez would hurry up and support them properly
<zmoylan-pi> next thing you'll want printers to be easy and to work :-p
<Azelphur> I know, madness
<popey> Year of the Linux Desktop
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: HP printer, plug in, connect, job done
<DJones> I've yet to find a HP printer that doesn't work out of the box
<foobarry> i found one once
<foobarry> there was a bug on 9.04
<foobarry> laserjet 4+ was being detected as PS when it was pcl
<foobarry> thought the printer was broken for about a year
 * zmoylan-pi has stories about printers since 1988 or so of them not just working.
 * SuperEngineer has heard rumours that they work better if you turn them on!
<diddledan> network printers have improved the compatibility of printing on linbux
<diddledan> my samsung laser "just worked"
<diddledan> as far as tethered systems tho, I guess only HP units can be almost guaranteed
<diddledan> and that's because HP actually make drivers under an open source project (HPLIP?)
<zmoylan-pi> i've had to deal with a few epsons over the years and once they're working they're grand but can sometimes be tempermental
<Azelphur> I remember seeing some tool that you could set which processes should always run under primus, anyone remember what that is?
 * m0nkey_ prods diddledan 
 * diddledan giggles like the pilsbury dough boy
<m0nkey_> you got a samsung too? heh.. we're far too alike.
<map> samsung ftw
<diddledan> yeah, I got it a couple years ago
<map> samsung tv/netbook/laptop
<map> :D
<diddledan> it's amazing
<m0nkey_> time to play samsung printer top trumps!
<diddledan> laser is so much better than ink
<map> so im off friday
<map> try and find a strip club part 2
<map> ;]
<map> dont wanna go to the boring casino
<m0nkey_> SCX-4828FN, 30ppm print/copy
<diddledan> I got a cheapo CLP-365W
<m0nkey_> I WIN!
<diddledan> it was on special at currys
<m0nkey_> I lose :(
<m0nkey_> you're is colour
<diddledan> yeah, colour was a requisite for me
<diddledan> I don't have scanning tho
<Dmon> I googled chat with ubuntu experts. and followed the link on this page http://www.fossbox.org.uk/node/22/
<map> new ep of babylon hm
<diddledan> wow, 1mil already: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-21
<daftykins> i don't even use this old ADSL2+ service but i found this amusing in the local paper today
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0if1ft7dyhapj9t/IMG_20141120_201259.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> a whopping 256Kbit/s increase
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> stingy amirite?
<diddledan> they could have left the downstream at the fairly reasonable 16Mbit/s and dedicated the extra speed entirely on upstream capacity
<daftykins> aaaaw yis
<diddledan> which they would have done if they really did care about customers' upload speeds
<daftykins> i think they really want everyone to move to the VDSL2 i'm on
<diddledan> yip
<daftykins> they've been pretty active on it, phoning everyone up O_O
<diddledan> prolly has a better profit margin
<map> hey all
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> I could spend hours looking at this website http://www.scapaflowwrecks.com/ I don't think I'd ever heard the story behind it before
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and bashrc
<foobarry> guy behind me gets around 1500 emails overnight he needs to review briefly each one
<zmoylan-pi> define brief :-)
<foobarry> he clicks the mouse for each one. its surprisingly annoying
<foobarry> the delete key would be quiter and quicker
<zmoylan-pi> keyboard shortcuts ftw \o/
<foobarry> its like an annoying clock that ticks 3x per second
<awilkins> Bayesian classification 4tw
<foobarry> some people deliberately choose jobs to slow their day down
<zmoylan-pi> that wouldn't be a review
<awilkins> Keystrokes on my keyboard would be annoying too though
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of thinking can be done while performing mundane tasks
<awilkins> I have a Model M
<foobarry> potentially silent
<awilkins> And a Cherry with clicky switches for "light duty"
<popey> how has 1500 mails guy not been automated out of this job?
<foobarry> i was suspicous of the "free" lego model from top cshback, but looks like they will come good
<foobarry> popey: its just the first 30 mins of his morning
<foobarry> i would automate it though
<foobarry> some people choose not to make their day efficient or they would have to work harder in the saved tiem
<foobarry> public sector mentality
<bashrc> private sector mentality more like
<bashrc> often it's just out of ignorance though
<popey> I used to love writing scripts to automate myself out of the loop
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> more time to do fun stuff
<popey> in fact at Canonical one guy has made it his job to automate me out of work â»
<popey> (one part of my day)
<bashrc> :)
<foobarry> thats why some people are on the up, and some are stagnating and in fact going down
<popey> Me and holbach used to review apps going into the store manually
<popey> now it's automated (unless it goes wrong)
<foobarry> computers are good at doing tedious things
<foobarry> shame they can't do anything about the guy behind me who is eating his breakfast in a disgusting manner
<popey> i once write an update script for a hotel in london, had to modify the phone numbers when "07" came in iirc.
<popey> took about 30 mins to write the update code
<popey> then spent half a day making a nice scroll bar and ETA â»
<popey> went to the hotel to run it on their live database, and had people crowded round the pc going Oooh, and Ahhh!
<popey> "3 hours left!"
 * popey â¥ dBase III
 * zmoylan-pi <3 dbase iii+ :-)
<DJones> Ooh dBase III, thats a blast from the past, I loved the programming language you could use in that, ended up writing systems for the chemical industry back in the late 80's/early 90's using that & dbase II
<popey> â»
<popey> yeah, we had to learn dBase at college and then I actually used it a fair amount.
<DJones> Same here, by the time I'd finished that system, it took about 3 hours for staff to input data & produce a 40 page report, compared to the manual method that took a week
<zmoylan-pi> the command line was wonderful once you mastered it
<foobarry> when you grew up in teh 80s the command line was all there is
<zmoylan-pi> and when you type over 100wpm it was enough :-)
<DJones> Running on C/PM on an ICL mini computer that was about 15 feet long, 4 feet high and 2 feet deep, 8 inch floppy disks and doorstops for hard drivespace in an air conditioned room with DRS 20 dumb terminals connect with co-ax cable
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy World Hello Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> world hello day?  such a wasted opportunity for learn to program hello world day :-)
 * directhex shouts @ visual studio
<JamesTait> directhex, I think that qualifies as a hello. Maybe.
<zmoylan-pi> depends what words you use...
<directhex> sweary ones
 * zmoylan-pi is not picturing happy fluffy greeting :-)
<directhex> i need some msvc experts.
<bashrc> I used visual studio back in the day and it was usable but, eh, just proprietary
 * awilkins is not a MSVC exprt
<awilkins> Have some experience hammering on things until they compile in MinGW though
 * zmoylan-pi tries to think of a irc channel with less msvc folk in it... 'star trek furries fan fiction channel'? :-)
<awilkins> "The tribble... bulged."
<foobarry> wut
<awilkins> You see what MSVC does? IT CAUSES HORRIBLE THINGS TO HAPPEN.
<directhex> yay, i got it working
<JamesTait> Apparently I'm eligible for a 30-day trial of Amazon Prime Instant Video.
<foobarry> they have amazon student
<JamesTait> Anyone tried it?
<foobarry> i have an .ac.uk address, in wonder if i can do it
<MooDoo_> :)
<MooDoo> bloomin irc lol
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> o/
<MooDoo> morning BigRedS
<MooDoo> bigcalm:
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Hi
<MooDoo> yeah type doh!#
<BigRedS> MooDoo: Oh, good morning! I've been losing terminals this morning and only just found this one :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: what ya playin at ;)
<BigRedS> I think I'm just tired :)
<MooDoo> yeah i know that feeling
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep reattatching to my tmuxes and finding a half-finished thing...
<arsenip> does anyone use any kind of management panels for things like email/domains/dns/etc (read plesk, webmin etc)? are they any good these days? i once ran a server using webmin, it was great for day0, made it easy to get large numbers of accounts up and running etc, but by day 365 it was a pig, slow, old and stopped me manually interacting with the configs/services.
<foobarry> january issue of magazine out now :-|
<foobarry> the world has gone mad
<arsenip> surprised ive not seen more xmas junk yet actually.
<daftykins> arsenip: what about spiceworks? does that do that kind of jazz 0o
<arsenip> usually it crops up in august
<arsenip> isnt spice the vnc thing?
<daftykins> i know webmin is fully deprecated on all debian bases now
<arsenip> maybe thats not spiceworks
<foobarry> do you want monitoring or mgmt
<arsenip> management, monitoring would be lovely though.
<daftykins> spiceworks is the web admin one that you feed logins then it goes off and scans the whole network etc
<arsenip> i mean, i can manually set up everything, ive got postgfix/dovecot/saslauthd/roundcube etc but .. i just need to set up lots of accounts/users/domains now etc
<arsenip> im reluctant to use anything due to the potential for it to be terrible later in life and regret it, but cant dismiss wihtout at least getting some experienced opinions :p
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> puppetise everything
<arsenip> yeah but for sub 20 users - quite a lot of effort
<foobarry> yep
<arsenip> especially as puppet is just as likely to go out of date, or atleast teh scripts will do
<arsenip> i want zero maintenance :D
<foobarry> sub contract it
<arsenip> (this is just for my personal mail / web etc ) :D
<foobarry> i left a whole infrastructure of 60 servers and 150 desktops for a couple of years
<foobarry> zero maintenance
<arsenip> i did that.
<arsenip> now im back, migrating it to the 21st centure
<foobarry> security updates auto updated
<arsenip> century..
<foobarry> mgmt via puppet
<foobarry> ran itself
<arsenip> ive virtualised everything of mine, so  i can move vz containers around in future. makes it easy
<BigRedS> I use Postfixadmin for mail
<BigRedS> to answer your qestion of 14:22
<BigRedS> but other than that, not really. My job is to look after servers, though, so I'm more used to doing in the shell than using a control panel
<BigRedS> I like Webmin, though, for not conflicting with 'normal' configuration
<arsenip> looks like ajenti is similar, but maybe more modern
<arsenip> likewise BigRedS - im a sysadmin, but i dont run lamp/email stuff anymore and dont really have time to set things up in the way they should be.
<arsenip> automated monitoring of ~everything would be nice.
<BigRedS> I wrote a script for installing postfixadmin
<BigRedS> And generally don't bother changing things :
<BigRedS> :)
<foobarry> how can i extract the value of issues from an xml file and show it in an html page?
<foobarry> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><issues total_count="4" offset="0" limit="25" type="array">
<BigRedS> 'issues' doesn't have a value there
<foobarry> i wanted to show total_count
<foobarry> sorry
<BigRedS> but, generally, either with a parser or a regex depending on your fondness for cthulu
<foobarry> i can do it for <OPEN>14</OPEN>
<BigRedS> what's generating the HTML page? what else is it doing? the better way to do this bit depends on what's already in place
<foobarry> i have a page similar to http://www.w3schools.com/xml/tryit.asp?filename=tryxml_display_table
<foobarry> i've done this before but can't find it anywhere
<BigRedS> ah, javascript!
<BigRedS> can't help with that, I'm afraid
<foobarry> \o/ sorted it
<BigRedS> whoop!
<markp> hm
<markp> so tired
<diddledan> morning
<markp> i was watching cant pay we'll take it away again - and its staggering how many people just DON'T pay rent..like 12months asnd stuff where they've not paid a penny
<markp> and yet they're more often than not recieving ousing benefit..so they've blown it all ? then get re-housed
<markp> i can totally see why everywhere I've rented always said no DSS
<markp> not worth the risk
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> idiots living life consequence free
<daftykins> hrmm just linked up a wix.com website to a clients domain - she'd made her site with them 0o
<daftykins> interesting service that
<daftykins> i refused to switch to their name servers though :P
<markp> omg this deep forest music is so cool
<diddledan> new site has just gone live which I built
<diddledan> fully responsive
<daftykins> ;O!
<mapps> well thats a pain
<mapps> cant get any cider..they stop serving at 9
<mapps> :(
<daftykins> wat
<mapps> yes
<mapps> outrageous eh
<mapps> caught up with gotham:D just watched e8
<mapps> 1 more to go yay
<daftykins> not touched that'un
<daftykins> don't even know what it's about
<mapps> pfft
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi3k5wlrhqbc31a/IMG_20141121_190804.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> never heard of this Guinness original before 0o
<Terminal> How do i install a patch?
<diddledan> patch -p1 < ../path/to/patch
<Terminal> eh?
<diddledan> patches require source code and compilation capability
<Terminal> i dont have a clue what your on about son, i want to install this: http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/37073/
<diddledan> if you are unsure about compiling software yourself then you should find a ppa where it's already built for you
<daftykins> 'son' - oh dear.
<directhex> i'd do it for him if he didn't act like a knob.
<daftykins> oh it's THAT user again
<daftykins> yeah you're on your own.
<Terminal> jesus chirst i thought a change of username would hide myself
<diddledan> !language | Terminal
<lubotu3> Terminal: The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<daftykins> your obnoxious attributes shine through
<daftykins> Terminal: 32-bit still failed then huh?
<Terminal> no no no its working prefect :) (not)
<daftykins> can't even answer a question straight. *sigh*
<Terminal> its working prefect. IN all honesty mate its working prefect
<daftykins> i am not your mate.
<diddledan> I'm guessing that's a kernel patch?
<Terminal> i dont have a clue if its a kernel patch? Whats wrong with saying mate? I hear the english say it all the time to strangers.
<Terminal> they dont go "hey mate" "im not your fking mate" and end up punching you unless drunk
<directhex> diddledan, yeah, kernel patch. drm is all in kernel
<diddledan> certainly not something a n00b is going to want to debug if it breaks
<daftykins> someones jumping the gun a bit in general really
<Terminal> im not a n00b. You tell me how to do
<directhex> apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)
<Terminal> so i put that in Terminal correct
<diddledan> are you sure?
 * daftykins facepalms
<diddledan> definitely not a n00b
<Terminal> am i sure?
<daftykins> Terminal: you should ask in #ubuntu-ru in future, at least then you can speak your native language too.
<Terminal> hahaha i bet they are drunk
<Terminal> on vodka
<daftykins> seems a bit like a stereotype
<Terminal> no no no sterotype but all in seriousness where do i put that bloody patch.
<daftykins> how did you originally find this channel?
<Terminal> i was a bit drunk so i dont have a clue, all i know is its on my history
<daftykins> are you drunk again tonight?
<Terminal> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i drunk a bit of vodka?
<Terminal> guys, i went on the ru verison and was told to p*ss off because i told them to go f putin
<bigcalm> ...
<DJones> !guidelines | Terminal
<lubotu3> Terminal: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<Terminal> it wasnt my fault
<DJones> Terminal: Erm, you can't dispute that "i told them to go f putin" (Using your own words), can't blame anybody else
<Terminal> ._. not be drunk when you do crap like that
<daftykins> Terminal: unsurprisingly your poor attitude is preventing anyone from wanting to help you.
<Terminal> maybe i drink coffee than i return
<daftykins> it'd be nicer if you skipped the second half of that altogether
<mapps> play nice everyone;
<mapps> ];]
<daftykins> stay out of it
<Terminal> stay out of what
<popey> Ok chaps.
<popey> Lets dial down the snark here.
<popey> foobarry: I am becoming addicted to surveys on yougov
 * m0nkey_ prods diddledan 
<diddledan> morning m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> afternoon
<mapps> these xmini 2 speakers are so handy
<mapps> using 2 linjked together..perfect for travelling:D
<kslick> hi
<mapps> hey
<mapps> well he didnt stay long
<daftykins> you put him off :(
<daftykins> or her
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> yea i shouldbve said he/she
<zmoylan-pi> i've always gone with 'they' didn't stay long to avoid gendering
<popey> wise
<daftykins> or using the nick every time, gets a tad tedious thoug
<daftykins> h
<Core__> Hello
<zmoylan-pi> hi o/
<popey> yo
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-22
<Azelphur> Result of my annual conky binge, https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=553eddabfeaca770f463cfc6b7b4d1c2 :)
<shauno> I'm not entirely sure how a Conky Intervention should work ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<zmoylan-pi> a career in hollywood tv or movie graphics awaits... :-)
<Azelphur> :D
<zmoylan-pi> just needs to be more glowy with text scrolling all over the place and the laptop should be rotating and you're done.  can they have it by the morning? :-)
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: sure ;)
<Azelphur> I came up with an inventive solution to the "start conky after compiz is ready" problem too, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9160530/
<diddledan> Azelphur, interesting
<diddledan> I wonder whether compiz sends a broadcast when it's ready which you could listen for rather than polling?
<Azelphur> diddledan: don't think so, I pasted that to my friend who just took over compiz maintenance and he didn't comment
<Azelphur> so I'm assuming no :)
<diddledan> heh
<Azelphur> oh dear, broke stuff
<diddledan> :-(
<Azelphur> turned on don't request password for login - login fails altogether now, guess that's because encryption is on
<Azelphur> yup, any suggestions?
<Azelphur> aha, you can remove the nopasswdlogin entry from /etc/groups, crisis averted.
<diddledan> that was fun
<m0nkey_> split much?
<diddledan> is this still accurate? http://developer.ubuntu.com/start/ubuntu-sdk/installing-the-sdk/
<diddledan> the ppa appears to have very few packages for utopic
<mapps> ah
<mapps> its great having a drink problem
<mapps> cant dissapoint anyone
<foobarry> popey: heh, i've got a bored after reaching a target of Â£50 on globaltestmarket and cashing in
<foobarry> and also, i'm on a samsung panel now that pays me Â£15 a month for about 15 mins of my time per month, so the surveys kinda get tedious
<foobarry> also valued opinions i'm a couple of quid short of cashing in , but lost the will a bit. paid for my phone though
<foobarry> oh no i've started on them again now.
<popey> haha foobarry
<foobarry> if you referrals for good sites letme know
<foobarry> how much do yougov pay popey ? e/g. survey length/rewards
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> foobarry: dont think they pay
<foobarry> oh? they used to when i did them 10+ yrs ago
<foobarry> ipsos mori pay
<foobarry> yougov is all about ukip today
<popey> any question is too
<SuperEngineer> Last week I spent 35 mins getting my original "Sam and Max Hit the Road" CD copied to pooter & working under dosBOX...
<daftykins> hahaha
<SuperEngineer> ...this week I spent Â£3.69 buying the Linux version from GoG ;)
<SuperEngineer> [even though I got the original working under
<SuperEngineer> dosBOX
<SuperEngineer> hahaha
<SuperEngineer> [& 5 mins of that 35 was spent cleaning the original CD - the years hadn't been kind to it]
<popey> almost certainly the "Linux Version" is actually dosbox
<SuperEngineer> Sort of - it runs under scummVM
<SuperEngineer> ...& does it so much better than my attempts under dosBOX
<popey> ahhh
<popey> someone had scummvm working on ubuntu phone recently
<popey> fun
<SuperEngineer> nice!
<SuperEngineer> bbs - time to go play Sam and Max :)
<andylockran> http://uth.zrmt.com/year.php :)
<daftykins> what's that - your home usage?
<penguin42> andylockran: What happened in January last year - electric heaters?
<foobarry> want to keep a windows partition on a laptop, but want to resize it.. windows only offers to reduce it by 20GB altough i have defragge it and there is 140b free
<diddledan> anyone ever heard of "ELED" TVs?
<foobarry> 140gb,, would a shrink work better from ubuntu?
<popey> yes
<popey> i had exactly this issue
<foobarry> its an ntfs disk
<popey> a few days ago
<foobarry> \o/
<popey> used gparted and is shrank by a lot more
<popey> however!
<foobarry> so gaprted?
<diddledan> googling ELED says that the E stands for entangled stating that it's a quantum computing thing - so what does that have to do with illuminating my TV?
<daftykins> diddledan: sounds like a typo
<foobarry> ...
<popey> I'd make sure you delete as much as you can and empty recycle bin first
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> and disk cleanup
<foobarry> etc etc
<popey> ya
<popey> but yes, gparted was fine
<foobarry> thanks
<popey> np
<diddledan> ebuyer have one
<foobarry> windows does indeed suck
<diddledan> they spammed me with details of it
<penguin42> diddledan: URL?
<foobarry> but i might need it for something
<diddledan> penguin42, http://www.ebuyer.com/611946-digihome-50-full-hd-smart-eled-freeview-hd-tv-lcf501080snbsm
<penguin42> hmm, it's digihome so it's not going to be anything super special
<diddledan> no, I agree. I was just curious what they think an ELED is
<popey> "
<popey> I looked that up too and was a little surprised. I think they probably mean Edge lit LED perhaps."
<diddledan> I've never heard of it before
<popey> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/digihome-50-full-hd-smart-eled-freeview-hd-tv-374-98-ebuyer-1939339
<penguin42> diddledan: It says edge if you scroll down
<penguin42> (imho edge is worse but I'm not 100% sure)
<diddledan> yeah, edge-lit means the middle is dimmer
<diddledan> and it's the middle that you want the brightest 'cos that's where the action is
<diddledan> with a decent led grid you're probably only adding an extra 1 or 2mm to the thickness of the TV anyway, so Edge-lit seems pointless to me
<daftykins> Sony always claimed to have edge-lit nailed, but i prefer a rear-grid with local dimming where possible
<penguin42> diddledan: But it's cheaper I think
<diddledan> yes, it's cheaper 'cos you're using less diodes, I guess
<popey> i like that my new sony auto-dims/brightens
<shauno> and thinnerer
<diddledan> shauno, you like them thin, eh?
<penguin42> diddledan: and as importantly I guess you don't need a PCB over the whole of the back to hold the LEDs
<shauno> diddledan: behave.
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> shauno, as if
<diddledan> a wifi kettle?!
<shauno> where?!
<diddledan> this one's in maplin
<shauno> oh.  nm
<diddledan> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ikettle-n00dt
<diddledan> I wonder if it complies with the RFC
<penguin42> simple, you just replace the heating element by a 2.4GHz magnetron, and connect it to the wifi card - simples
<diddledan> i.e. HTCPCP
<popey> why on earth is that a thing?
<popey> kettles aren't known for taking _that_ long to boil
<diddledan> it's taking the internet of things a bit far methinks
 * penguin42 checks popey's list of kickstarter orders before answering that
<popey> although saying that I frequently "race" the kettle.
<popey> haha
<shauno> I have a wifi switch thingie on my coffee machine.  it's awesome
<popey> surely you have to have the presence of mind to put water in it earlier
<popey> â would fail at that
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> yep, or remember the water status
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> we really just need kitchen robots
<shauno> my machine takes 30-40 minutes to warm up properly, so being able to turn it on from bed/work is ftw
 * penguin42 wonders if a Baxter robot would work well in a domestic kitchen
<foobarry> gparted says it is moving the partition to the right :S
<foobarry> don't recall asking to do that
<shauno> watching x-files, because I never saw it the first time around.  someone left a cassette on his dashboard.  I feel old now.
<penguin42> it was good at the time
<penguin42> didn't watch the last few series I think
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pcdpe08hvv7pn6/VID_20141122_225136.mp4?dl=0
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-23
<diddledan> daftykins, avid trekkie, your cat, I see
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> she seems quite keen!
<daftykins> unfortunately the titles played with the swooshy ship sound... she was out of the room like a shot!
 * penguin42 doesn't recognise the episode
<mapps> hey
<mapps> GOT MY LAPTOP
<mapps> YAY
<ymurti> I am only testing. :) Thank You for your help.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<moriarty> Azelphur, stop spamming about bitcoin in PM
<SuperEngineer> moriarty, offer Azelphur somee dodgey bitcoin links to stop the spamming ;)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> that's just a fellow I banned from #bitcoin, amusingly for what he mentioned.
<Azelphur> guess he's going full stalker
<SuperEngineer> wow
<zmoylan-pi> at least now you have a nemesis with a decent handle... :-)
<Azelphur> indeed ;)
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't seem right when it's hellokitty92 :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<SuperEngineer> doesn't seem right when he/she/it thinks you're stooopid
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a waste of time stalking someone who is stupid.  kinda of an exercise in futility
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> ...but it keeps their degraded brain occupied
<Azelphur> indeed
<SuperEngineer> Today's award for stupidity goes to ploice who apparently can't count...
<SuperEngineer> ..."Police stopped four or five terrorist attacks in 2014, says Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe."
<SuperEngineer> [four OR five?]
<Azelphur> it's only terrorist attacks, you don't need to be exact.
<Azelphur> :P
<zmoylan-pi> one bunch of terrorists were going to attack the same target at the same time as another group of terrorists?  it's like the life of brian... :-)
<SuperEngineer> yup, they're Very Naughty Boys
<zmoylan-pi> but at least they're not the popular peoples front of judea
<SuperEngineer> One thing noticeable in Life of Brian, no cats or kittens!  Obviuosly no internet in those days.
<zmoylan-pi> those weren't otters noses at the gladitorial games... :-p
<SuperEngineer> :)
<SuperEngineer> ooooh... nearly time for BBC F1 vroom vroom coverage.... see y'all later folks
<SuperEngineer> That's me all set for the F1 - BBC live on monitor [for pit lane coverage], BBC live race on tv, F1.com's live timings on 2nd monitor - hope the eyes can cope!
<SuperEngineer> [I love the way Ubuntu + nVidia 3 port card copes with my F1 needs]
<popey> i might watch this one
<popey> not seen any all season.
<SuperEngineer> shame on you! but enjoy this one, promises to be a bit special
<popey> yeah.
<popey> need to go and kick sam off the xbox
<SuperEngineer> :D
<popey> bah, live timings thing needs flash
<SuperEngineer> sure it's not java it's looking for... F1 live timingss is all I use "nasties" for... but I have NoScript installed in Firefox to stop me making any mistakes.
<popey> SuperEngineer: could have done with absolutely anyone other than Eddie doing that monologue
<SuperEngineer> :D
<popey> yeah, it was flash
<SuperEngineer> hmmm
 * SuperEngineer checks
<popey> what url?
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17691882
<popey> ?
<SuperEngineer> http://www.formula1.com - you'll need to sign in /register with F1.com
<SuperEngineer> click on the live timing link
<SuperEngineer> [if you go through beeb for the live timing it does need flash - & is delayed due to that
<SuperEngineer> go direct via F1.com - often faster than shown live on TV
<popey> meh
 * SuperEngineer is currently enjoying watching *live* timings - no tv transpose/transmit delay
<mapps> oops forgot i unplugged my netbook
<mapps> so it died of course
<mapps> :)
<SuperEngineer> mapps, should I send flowers?
<mapps> yes
 * SuperEngineer sends virtual flowers... & virtual reincarnation charger pack
<popey> \o/ sausage sandwich for lunch
<foobarry> mint sauce on sausages is great
<mapps> ugh cba to go out
<mapps> have to do some shopping;[
<mapps> no matter what time you go..supermarkets always busy ;(
<SuperEngineer> mapps, how to avoid supermarkets: get milk from cow, egg from chicken, bread from oven & meat from nearest politician ;)
<shauno> supermarkets are okay at 3am.  as long as you're not shopping for munchies.  the stoner aisle tends to be weird
<SuperEngineer> for anyone who'd interested: Hamillton wins F1 race... & championship of course ;)
<ali1234> what's the best fitness tracker that works with ubuntu?
<mapps> bodyspace is good
<mapps> just a website but its decent enough ali1234
<noelkd> er
<zmoylan-pi> um
<daftykins> hmm
<ali1234> no i meant like fitbit
<ali1234> the things you wear
<zmoylan-pi> they all seem to store info in the cloud which for me is a real deal breaker.  just seems silly
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Kind of makes sense for people who who want to get the data from a phone or whatever they have with them when running whatever
<popey> ali1234: some will sync via a smartphone like the fitbit
<popey> (android or ios)
<ali1234> popey: yeah they all do pretty much. someone also wrote linux software for the fitbit
<popey> ali1234: to sync over bluetooth?
<ali1234> yes, bluetooth LE
<popey> I know of fitbit software that shows the data from the web service, but didn't see anyone who made the connectivity stuff to the device
<ali1234> https://bitbucket.org/benallard/galileo
<ali1234> !info nvidia-173 utopic
<lubotu3> Package nvidia-173 does not exist in utopic
<ali1234> why not?
<daftykins> why bother
<daftykins> :P
<ali1234> !info nvidia utopic
<lubotu3> Package nvidia does not exist in utopic
<ali1234> !info linux utopic
<lubotu3> Package linux does not exist in utopic
<ali1234> bot is broken :(
<daftykins> !find nvidia utopic
<lubotu3> Found: nvidia-prime, nvidia-settings, nvidia-settings-304, nvidia-settings-304-updates, nvidia-settings-310, nvidia-settings-310-updates, nvidia-settings-313-updates, nvidia-settings-319, nvidia-settings-319-updates, nvidia-settings-experimental-304 (and 55 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=nvidia&searchon=names&suite=utopic&section=all
<Anastasius> Oh hi.
<daftykins> o/
<Anastasius> ikonia: When are we going to play Monopoly?
<Azelphur> Anastasius: what are you using to play monopoly on Linux?
<daftykins> i sense Anastasius would want to do it the good old fashioned way, on a board!
<Anastasius> Azelphur: I don't rightly remember. ikonia and I were supposed to play about 3 years ago.
<Azelphur> haha
<Anastasius> Yes, we could also set up individual boards and play via snail mail.
<daftykins> you could have a hotel empire by now :(
<Azelphur> Anastasius: I know 3 years ago there was monopd and stuff, but nobody hosts servers for it any more :<
<Anastasius> That would have probably been over by now if we'd started it three years ago.
<ali1234> yeah it's not like you have an entire network of game hosting servers or anything :P
<Anastasius> Azelphur: Well if you come up with any reasonable solutions, let me and ikonia know.
<daftykins> ali1234: quite right
<Azelphur> Anastasius: I have one, http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/
<Azelphur> but not FOSS sadly :<
<Azelphur> but still amazingly fun.
<Azelphur> albeit somewhat impractical :)
<ali1234> for a game like monopoly, that would get fiddly real fast
<Azelphur> ali1234: I play it somewhat regularly and played a full game of monopoly on it
<Azelphur> honestly, we were too busy laughing to care about how fiddly it was xD
<daftykins> i'd be down as long as i get to be the little dog
<ali1234> i wrote a monopoly engine ones
<ali1234> still compiles :)
<ali1234> no human players but it processes 1 million turns in 2 seconds
<ali1234> at which point all the remaining players are also millionaires
<ali1234> did they ever adjust monopoly money for inflation?
<ali1234> cos as i remember the highest value note is 500
<daftykins> haha
<ali1234> and there isn't enough in the box to buy even 1 house these days
<ali1234> let alone a whole street
<daftykins> i think extra 0's would be a waste of mental effort
<ali1234> they have a version now with credit cards and a payment terminal
<daftykins> oh yeah
<ali1234> http://www.hasbro.com/monopoly/en_US/shop/details.cfm?R=AD4A14AC-5056-900B-10AB-AE9AC7F1AC92:en_US
<Anastasius> My ears have beamed up without me again.
<daftykins> you really need to get that fixed
<Anastasius> This is true.
 * daftykins plays more Royksopp
<membrell_> hello guys
<Anastasius> I shall listen to that after the and movie.
<Anastasius> membrell_: Hello.
<membrell_> i need some help
<membrell_> just in short: im in Budapest, and fell of a bike and i have knee pain. I found a guy, who is coming tomorrow from London to Budapest, and i need a special food supplement (medicine) available only in UK and USA. He can buy me this staff, but i have to find a drugstore or pharmacy in london tonight where he can buy it for me tommorrow morning
<membrell_> Its called Membrell JointHealth Natural Eggshell Membrane
<membrell_> capsule
<daftykins> oh get lost troll
<membrell_> can you help me to find a store, where we can find this?
<membrell_> daftykins: im not a troll, i have a knee pain
<daftykins> you're talking rubbish, go away
<membrell_> daftykins: its not rubbish, its real
<membrell_> can you help me guys?
<membrell_> im looking for this:
<membrell_> http://www.reddremedies.com/Joint-Health-Original-30.html
<membrell_> and this:
<membrell_> http://www.reddremedies.com/Nerve-Shield.html
<daftykins> and I am the King of the potato people.
<membrell_> so, no one?
<membrell_> :(
<daftykins> if you have a magic carpet you may visit me to obtain some
<membrell_> daftykins your attitude is like a windows admin
<membrell_> not like an open source guy
<daftykins> so how's Hungary this time of year?
<diddledan> daftykins, starving
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: what do you think, should the King of the potato people banish membrell_ from these lands?
<diddledan> yes. with smiting lightning bolts
<membrell_> hungary is beautiful
<membrell_> just ban me, then you prove my statements by yourself:)
<daftykins> the King tires of this childishness
<membrell_> daftykins: why dont you just help me?
<membrell_> with the same amount of energy you can help me instead of bullying
<daftykins> you're chatting bs that's why
<membrell_> sorry, i can speak only four languages but im not native english speaker..
<membrell_> so daftykins, can you help me to find an offline drugstore in london, close to Britannia Gate, London E16 1SB, UK
<membrell_> ?
<membrell_> or pharmacy?
<daftykins> this is a channel for Ubuntu on a network about open source things
<ali1234> and monopoly
<daftykins> why in the hell are you trying to get people to buy medicinal products for you in England, from Hungary?
<daftykins> yep Monopoly too
<ali1234> he isn't
<ali1234> he already found someone to do that, allegedly
<ali1234> i doubt you're gonna find this stuff in stores, it seems like a pretty niche item
<daftykins> i'm not sure what that hair splitting achieves
<membrell_> ali1234: thanks for understanding me:) I already saw it you can buy this products in the UK, just i dont know where..
<membrell_> is there any online pharmacy site or central site for herbal staff search or anything where i can find this?
<ali1234> no
<daftykins> we are not a Google alternative.
<membrell_> daftykins: you are right, but you are better informed from uk things then me, its for sure:) so whats a few second for you is a half day for me:) I already searching google since 8pm
<ali1234> why don't you just buy it on amazon and have it delivered?
<membrell_> and i didnt found any solution, so i thought some smart english guy/girl can give me an advice maybe where to find/ how to do.. if you have any better irc channel idea for this, please tell me and im going there..:)
<daftykins> why does freenode get such nut jobs
<membrell_> ali1234: they dont deliver it to Hungary..
<ali1234> oh wow amazon are streaming free christmas music on their website
<daftykins> ##chat
<membrell_> ali1234: this guy seems to be a cool helpful guy, and he can deliver it to me by tuesday if i can find a store tonight, where to buy..
<ali1234> seems like woo to me anyway
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-16
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> lo
<mapps> sup;D
<mapps> cool tv night..walking dead..homeland and brooklynnine nine;D
<mapps> watch any?
<mapps> ooh and new series of peep show
<daftykins> nope not any o' them
<mapps> :|
<mapps> peep showis so funny
<daftykins> ah can't stand that style
<daftykins> too painful
<mapps> homelandtime:D
<mapps> ;]
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jimmy_will> what a morning
<directhex> Laney! fix bug 1132063!
<lubotu3`> bug 1132063 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Mouse settings missing from Mouse & Touchpad dialog" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132063
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Button Day! ð
<directhex> JamesTait: buttons for pushing, or buttons for doing things up?
<JamesTait> directhex, officially the doing things up type, but personally I don't mind. ð
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<popey> good
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3`> dong
<bigcalm> pud
<foobarry> !sing
<foobarry> :(
<bigcalm> !bing
<lubotu3`> ban
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> I was hoping for google
<diddledan_> !sing
<diddledan_> aww
<davmor2> JamesTait: sorry meetings and bugs slowed me down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJDGcxAf9D8
 * diddledan_ pushes davmor2 's button
<diddledan_> but really.. a day for buttons?!
<diddledan_> that's randomness
<zmoylan-pi> next zipper day...
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: and then "getting it caught in the zipper day"
 * diddledan_ winces
<zmoylan-pi> it'll keep them in stitches...
<diddledan_> the big question when you get caught in your zip is "do I finish doing it up or attempt to undo it?"
<zmoylan-pi> or the slow v fast method of bandaid removal...
<diddledan_> yeah that's another perennial
<foobarry> popey: i got some great github stickers
<foobarry> ask jono bacon for some ;)
<popey> i will! :)
<foobarry> we got 200 after buying the github onsite appliance
<popey> I'd rather have launchpad stickers though, because you know, free software
<foobarry> there are some great stickers
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> but octocat
 * popey shrugs
<foobarry> i also have a "my other computer is a cray"
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite was 'the beatings will continue till morale improves'
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> found this the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJvEIjRBSDA (Write in go)
<diddledan_> "it's weird when you can see each other, isn't it. I don't like it!" lol
<diddledan_> silly geeks
 * diddledan_ <3 the buntu podcast
<diplo> Giving Ubuntu Mate a go today, well once I have backed everything up
<diddledan_> one must recognise there's a difference between someone saying "you gotta try ubuntu, mate" and "you gotta try ubuntu mate"
<diddledan_> :-p
<diplo> Well it's not pronounced "mate" like alright mate
<diplo> So I've found out today
<diplo> :P
<zmoylan-pi> i learned the importance of commas when i helped my uncle jack off a horse... :-P
<diddledan_> yeah, I think that makes it sound ponsey tho
<diddledan_> I would imagine the horse was somewhat relieved to have that weight-off
<diddledan_> whichever way you punctuate it :-p
<diddledan_> fun exam answer (supposedly) http://paste.ubuntu.com/13299495/
<foobarry> there's only 1 way to pronounce mate surelty?
<zmoylan-pi> unless you spell if matÃ©
<foobarry> but they don't?
<zmoylan-pi> seems to have been dropped but still pronounced that way...
<bigcalm> Like Cafe
<daftykins> i find most pronunciation in the open source world to be quite stupid
<diddledan_> cafÃ© is supposed to be spelt with a Â´ over the e. anything else is wrong.
<arsenip> well
<arsenip> anything else is the eastenders version
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan_> cath's caff
<arsenip> caf-ay (french) or CAFF (eastenders)
<arsenip> GOIN DOWN CAFF
<diddledan_> daan caff
<diddledan_> not down
<arsenip> ^
<arsenip> sorry.
<arsenip> i'm a newbie to south london.
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> saff
<arsenip> SAFF
<arsenip> ffs
<arsenip> sorrY!
<daftykins> XD
 * arsenip quits life
<diddledan_> :-p
<arsenip> *liaff
<daftykins> hmm a mate is giving me his smashed screen Nexus 5 for free, so i've ordered a cheap Â£26 screen from Hong Kong to swap :>
<diddledan_> you sneaky pete!
<arsenip> nice.
 * arsenip rubs his iphone
<diddledan_> arsenip: pervert
<arsenip> probably.
 * diddledan_ rubs his, too
<arsenip> i'm male.
 * zmoylan-pi offers to play phone conkers with nokia dumbphone...
<diddledan_> my precious
<diddledan_> I like the fingerprinty thingy
<daftykins> nah he knows it's been fixable for ages, but i saw him the other day at a party with a Samsung S5 =|
<daftykins> some folks are so ridiculous with their money
<diddledan_> <--
<daftykins> ;]
<arsenip> <--
<arsenip> rediculous is relative.
<diddledan_> I like shiny toys
<arsenip> as is money.
<daftykins> seems someone i know is still keen on getting a Surface despite having a Lenovo X1 carbon
<diddledan_> o_O
<arsenip> surface looks good tbh
 * diddledan_ checks the lenovo
<arsenip> is the x1 not old now ?
<Seeker`> Registered : Nov 20 23:44:23 2006 (8y 51w 5d ago)
<daftykins> unless you ever want to upgrade it, trollolol
<Seeker`> There must be 9 days this week
<arsenip> its a laptop ..
<daftykins> X1 has a 2015 model
<arsenip> if you're buying laptops for upgradability you're doing it wrong :D
<arsenip> i say this from my high perch cradling my macbook 12.. of course.
<daftykins> not when Lenovos are mostly sold with teensy SSDs
<arsenip> ah yes, that i can understand.
<daftykins> what the stupid Core M thing?
<arsenip> 'low on disk space' shouldnt be an error that exists in todays age.
<arsenip> probably daftykins
<daftykins> i was able to swap out the 160GB intel for a 512GB Crucial in the X240 of someones
<arsenip> though perf isnt an issue really.
<daftykins> buying all the accessories to get some sane sockets is? :>
<primered6> ~<120gb is not that bad that's what NAS storage is for..
<arsenip> i gots all the litle donglefriends daftykins  :D
<arsenip> actually i could do with a usb-c to thunderbolt or whatever it is, i guess
<daftykins> primered6: perhaps for your own usecase, however i have travelling business folk clients
<daftykins> hehe
<arsenip> franly the only reason i have 500gig SSD in mine is because i dont want to ever have to delete stuff
<arsenip> i can't see many businesses using >100gig on a workstation unless its a creative industry (sound/video processing)
<bashrc_> nobody will ever need more than 640K
<arsenip> :D
 * daftykins groans at the clichÃ©
<diddledan_> I use > 100G on my laptop for business
<arsenip> i basically work out of crhome and a terminal, so my 500gig exists for random junk downloads and videos to watch on flights. :D
<daftykins> i wish i knew who this office opposite was, i'd tell 'em they can save money by turning off their damn screens at night :P
 * daftykins keeps using Firefox tab groups before it gets removed in FF 45 :(
<diplo> I use > 100G on my laptop and work PC arsenip as do most of the work staff, but I agree in a typical office maybe that would be a lot
<awilkins> Windows eats like 60G or something now?
<awilkins> I know a lot of it is actually hardlinks to libraries, but still
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> it's never taken 60GB
<primered6> More like 20-30gb
<primered6> if that..
<daftykins> 10 comes with that funky install shrinking tech
<hexhaxtron> Anyone has Freeview HD?
<daftykins> what'd the actual question be?
<zleap> some channels on freeview are HD,
<hexhaxtron> If it works with WiFi or if I need cables connected to the TV?
<zleap> like bbc channels, so if you have HDTV you get a better picture
<daftykins> hexhaxtron: wait what? freeview is aerial broadcast no o0
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, what does it mean aerial? I need an antenna?
<daftykins> yeah that's what freeview is, unless something new has come out in the last year i don't know about
<zleap> ariel = antenna
<hexhaxtron> Or the builtin Freeview in the TV already catches the signal?
<daftykins> depends what your TV is capable of
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, I'm interested in this TV: http://dealbuyer.com/viewproduct/18228/Digihome_48_LED_Full_HD_1080p_TV_2_x_HDMI_2_x_USB_Media_Player
<daftykins> so yeah roof antenna only
<hexhaxtron> I don't have a roof antenna...
<daftykins> then you're up that specific creek with no paddle
<daftykins> i think i'd aim for something with a freesat tuner, then you can make use of a sky dish
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, can you suggest me an antenna to buy?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> you'll want to phone your local handy installer
<daftykins> before that though, use the freeview site to check coverage in your area
<zleap> we have a freeview tv with a normal indoor ariel / antenna works ok
<daftykins> sounds like non-HD
<zleap> the UK should have full coverage of freeview analog channels were switched off IIRC
<daftykins> no harm in checing :)
<daftykins> +k
<zleap> not sure just now we have a new tv and we are using an indoor ariel
<hexhaxtron> zleap, something like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271206041756?adgroupid=13936810266&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=kwd-124296812946&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=220881786&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80
<zleap> kinda but yes
<zleap> they come in all shapes
<hexhaxtron> Thanks! :)
<zleap> https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=indoor+ariel&iax=1&ia=images
<hexhaxtron> zleap, what do you think of this one? http://www.qvsdirect.com/amplified-indoor-freestanding-digital-freeview-aerial-with-4g-filter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_campaign=googlebase&gclid=CJDBxJmxlckCFQxmGwodfrMDKg
<hexhaxtron> Is it good?
<daftykins> you really should just do it right :P
<daftykins> after all you only do it once, so there's no point scrimping
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, it's not my home... it's a private rented room... I cannot put an antenna on the roof by myself, the landlord needs to give permission for it.
<daftykins> weird to have a place with no provision
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, but... that antenna works with the TV I mentioned, right? And then I get many channels for free? That's all I need to know.
<daftykins> i wouldn't want to say
<arsenip> whenever ive lived in rented i've had tv/phone instaleld - usually with landlord perms tho
<daftykins> one years little buggers had sky fitted to my place in Portsmouth, they never asked :P
<hexhaxtron> I don't have phone either. However, I got wireless Internet. :)
<daftykins> phones pretty useless today
<daftykins> i only have one from being forced for my VDSL provision
<arsenip> tbh i think these dasy its pretty standard to have sky or cable installed
<hexhaxtron> arsenip, can I pm you?
<diddledan> now that's an odd spam - advertising an "ultra realistic" flight simulator they're calling "VirtualPilot3D"
<diddledan> they claim it "is going to be a GAME-CHANGER"
<daftykins> diddledan: well you do have to quit what you're playing to run it i suppose ;)
<diddledan> lol
<arsenip> ofc hexhaxtron
<arsenip> im not sure what use i am, though.
<daftykins> yeah that arsenip can't even do s saff London accent ;)
<arsenip> afaik freeview works via standard tv aerial right? anyting you get from the likes of argos etc would do fine.
<daftykins> yeah probably
<daftykins> hexhaxtron: http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability
<daftykins> see how good the coverage is nearby before investing in some cheap internal antenna
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, I did that already.
<daftykins> oh ok, just not sharing then
<daftykins> sue me for trying :P
 * diddledan demands monies
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, 90 channels, 14 HD and 29 radio stations.
<diddledan> daftykins: talking of suing for money - this is a fun talk at the DEFCON security conference some years ago "that awesome time I was sued for two billion dollars" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWqx8goqSY
<daftykins> only get 18 over here!
<diddledan> seems it was 2009 conference
<daftykins> cor
<daftykins> but that was last week, no?
<daftykins> diddledan: i want that 30 minutes back! :P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you're stuffed then :-p
<daftykins> heh nah it was quite interesting, glad i'm not high profile enough to get such letters
<diddledan> indeed. I don't know that I'd be able to spot the silly from the serious
<daftykins> just imagine being a family person and finding the time to even sift through it all though, ugh
<diddledan> http://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/11/16/introducing-edgehtml-13-our-first-platform-update-for-microsoft-edge/
<daftykins> still don't feel inclined to run it XD
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, do I have to pay some tax to use TV in the UK?
<diddledan> hexhaxtron yes
<diddledan> hexhaxtron, to wathc live broadcast (even via the internet) you need a "TV License"
<diddledan> catch-up that isn't live is ok wihtou tho
<hexhaxtron> diddledan, where can I get more info about the TV License?
<diddledan> hexhaxtron. tvlicensing.co.uk
<hexhaxtron> diddledan, can't I just use an antena and a TV and watch it for free?
<diddledan> hexhaxtron, you can, but it's illegal
<hexhaxtron> diddledan, are the channels encrypted or something?
<diddledan> freeview and freesat are completely unencrypted
<Myrtti> TV licence is a bargain
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | MeetUp: http://bit.ly/1RZE6X4
<diddledan> ooh, something changed. I wonder what it was.
<diddledan> no more "snuck"ing
<diddledan> lol https://twitter.com/bsdphk/status/666231716227469312
<diddledan> rdio have filed for bankruptcy and pandora have agreed to acquire key assets and staff pending approval by the bankruptcy court
<diddledan> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/16/pandora-rdio-acquisition/
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<popey> hmmm
<zmoylan-pi> ding
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you mean:
<diddledan> !ding
<lubotu3`> dong
<zmoylan-pi> !pewpewpew
<diddledan> interesting: watching agents of shield ep 7 "I hope you stick around" followed by the video closing
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-17
<mapp> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon ,  how are you dude
<DJones> I think I'll give this project a miss, somehow doesn't appeal to me https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1468268424/l-i-v-i-n-hive
<Myrtti> I'd rather eat mealworms that grasshoppers
<Myrtti> grasshoppers were a bit too crunchy for my taste
<davmor2> Morning all
<DJones> One of the people at work has a 9 year old daughter, her christmas request is for edible bugs to try, she tried grasshoppers at school and wants to try different bugs now
<Myrtti> that's cute
<foobarry> why does git not track files after i git add them?
<foobarry> # On branch master
<foobarry> # Changed but not updated:
<foobarry> lots of files
<foobarry> #   (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed)
<SuperMatt> http://matty.digital is now signed by letsencrypt.org :D
<SuperMatt> uhhh, there should be an s in there, but it redirects anyway
<bashrc_> nice
<foobarry> ah, git commit -a
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Home-Made Bread Day! ð
<foobarry> every day is HMB day
<JamesTait> ð
<SuperMatt> bleep bloop
<JamesTait> It should be, I need more practise.
<SuperMatt> I guess now I have my own flat, I could make my own bread
<foobarry> makes my little daughter less farty
<foobarry> they put loads a crap in supermarket bread
<JamesTait> Blame the daughter and the supermarket bread. ð
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> your intestine needs gas to operate efficently iirc
<davmor2> JamesTait: not so much the songs relevance here as the band name :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q1kB0R4Ijs
 * awilkins loves home made bread
<awilkins> I may have to make some later now
<awilkins> Home made focaccia 4tw
<TwistedLucidity> Down with Chorelywood!
<popey> TwistedLucidity, i used to work in Kings Langley, whenever I said "Kings Langley", wifey would immediately say "Chorleywood!" because the two were always said together in the traffic reports on radio...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rj9p21r6jowb4o7/AACkI5b027SctsMRNppGZLfOa?dl=0
<daftykins> Â£160 27" HannsG 2560x1440 IPS arrived :O
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: What version of Linux is that in the screenshot? Looks totally amazing!
<zmoylan-pi> looks like xubuntu...
<daftykins> i would imagine the less said about that the better :>
<daftykins> that's about the only machine in the house that has HDMI and can drive that res; even then it required going into the advanced settings, setting a custom mode and changing the timing standard
<daftykins> i'd hate to think how bad the same would be with xrandr - often i see folk trying to add a mode over in #ubuntu and all it does it spit out some complaint at the parameters regardless of being correct or not :P
<zmoylan-pi> the fun of selecting a freq that creates a whine that annoys the kids, cats and dogs...
<daftykins> :) there's something odd about having VGA on the above display, given it can only do 2048x1536 max...
 * zmoylan-pi misses the green text on black of ancient ibm monitor i first used in 80s... hercules video card powered it.
<zmoylan-pi> franken pc that someone had erased the disk park utility on.  so it had to be moved super carefully.
<daftykins> couldn't obtain it again? 0o
<diddledan> lol, my first pc had one of those utilities - dad added a call to it via a batch script called bye.bat, so to shutdown I just typed "bye" and waited for the hard drive to shutdown then power off
<zmoylan-pi> well it would involve finding a bbs that hosted park utilities for companies that no longer existed iirc
<zmoylan-pi> and the bbs would most likely be in usa so be a long distance call...
<diddledan> skyper
<diddledan> skype
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I wonder if anyone has tried data calls via skype
<zmoylan-pi> also the noisiest hard drive i ever used.  i could hear the heads moving 2 rooms away
<zmoylan-pi> i did once try an acoustic coupler to an analog mobile in 80s...
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> fun
<zmoylan-pi> more a proof of concept than practical as calls were stupidly expensive.  a call to a nearby bbs was like calling japan level of cost...
<zmoylan-pi> but i thought it might be useful if boss was in backend of ireland and needed code or binaries sent instead of a round trip back to dublin
<diddledan> I wonder if I'm highlighted in intelligence agencies' extremist category yet
<diddledan> (visiting linux journal might make you such, e.g.)
<zmoylan-pi> i ordered a copy of guerilla days by tom barry over a decade ago to be sure :-)
<diddledan> for any NSA or GCHQ guys, I'm not hard to find; I use my real name for example
<zmoylan-pi> i've loaned that book to dozens of people...
<diddledan> although I appear to no-longer be on the first page of teh googs
<diddledan> looks like my homepage is the top result actually referring to me at number 24
<diddledan> when you search for my name that is
<diddledan> looks like isis have managed to convince france to wage holy war on them
<diddledan> ref: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/france-launches-new-airstrikes-against-is/ar-BBn63WV
<hexhaxtron> diddledan, can I pm you?
<daftykins> just ask stuff in channel so everyone can have input
<diddledan> ^ wot 'e sed!
<hexhaxtron> daftykins, diddledan I just want to know if I can get problems or get caught if I use a Smart TV with an antenna without paying for the license?
<Laney> O_O
<daftykins> you are at risk, so it's your gamble
<daftykins> i don't have a license and therefore i don't use any broadcast TV method. simple as.
<foobarry> The Guardian
<foobarry> FHM and Zoo magazines to suspend publication
<foobarry> replaced by reddit
<SuperMatt> pretty much
<SuperMatt> I'm not surprised, they just couldn't' keep up
<foobarry>  FHMâs circulation fell to less than 67,000 for the first six months of this year.That compares to the more than 700,000 copies FHM was selling in 2000,
<SuperMatt> well, we all still had dial back then
<zmoylan-pi> so mens mags on the way out, even playboy won't be printing nudes next year, what are sales figures like for womens mags i wonder
<foobarry> gossip mags?
<foobarry> all mags are failling across the board
<zmoylan-pi> well there's fashion/gossip/crafting plus other categories that if you saw on a waiting room table would label womens mags
<foobarry> all except slimming world
<foobarry> which has grown
<foobarry> http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/article/1333599/magazines-abcs-top-100-glance
<foobarry> linux format in the top 50 digital editions. not this year though
<daftykins> i saw a Linux Format in a local Waitrose the other day, DVD said it had ubuntu 15.04 Â¬_Â¬
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> the only mag i ever buy is airfix model world...free calednar this month :)
<daftykins> hahaha
<foobarry> linux magz are up against it when g+ supplies my needs
<daftykins> all the free stuff gets lost to buyers over here i think
<zmoylan-pi> does it come in parts that you have to assemble? :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: 13 pieces
 * zmoylan-pi misses the days when computer shopper was about 1000 pages of adverts... and started on page 200 or so...
<foobarry> heh
<daftykins> i remember those ;_;
<diddledan> yey bugs! https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=557087
<Laney> yeah I remember buying those magazines that were just shop listings
<Laney> and coming up with my dream PC
<Laney> then working out that if I just did my paper round for 2 years
<daftykins> then not affording it and having the sads? :D
<Laney> and spent no money at all
<Laney> ............
<Laney> yeah that happened
<daftykins> i used the entire wage of a supermarket shelf stacking job to buy a single graphics card once
<daftykins> geforce 2 GTS!
<diddledan> what was the games mail-order catalogue that got put into magazines back in the 90s?
<diddledan> maybe special reserve?
<diplo_> afternoon all
<daftykins> o/
<diplo_> root
<diplo_> arse
<diddledan> language timothy
<diplo> It's a peice of my anatomy :D
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> glad it's not your root password ;)
<diddledan> my root password is toor
<daftykins> how about on your roottoor?
<diplo> Tis a fresh installed VM, no users yet :/
<foobarry> http://superuser.com/a/440057 << can someone help with the sed command please?
<foobarry> don't understand the line break
<Myrtti> I have a sneaking suspicion I had to do it with AWK way back when
<foobarry> sed: -e expression #1, char 48: unterminated address regex
<foobarry> awksome
<foobarry> it seems to work!
<Myrtti> I is helpful!
<foobarry> thanks for the hint
<_Ridgewing> Just looking at the lastest thingy from the government (UK) http://postimg.org/image/uzamha2yv/
<diddledan> ok?:
<Myrtti> diddledan: I agree
<awilkins> "sod off dave"
<awilkins> Oh, wait, RANDOM words
<daftykins> heh good fun calling up some clients, this old mate of my dads was telling me the company opposite his home had huge wheelie bins full of 17" LCDs and PCs that all worked, just now
<zmoylan-pi> illegally dumping computer hardware?
<daftykins> nah it's what that company does
<daftykins> he caught a couple before the rain came :D
<bashrc_> bonus
<Seeker`> Are there any irc logs around from 2007 on the web?
<diddledan> Seeker`: irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Seeker`> Don't think loco logs there go back that far
<DJones> Seeker`: 200
<DJones> 4
<Seeker`> diddledan: they go back to 18th nov 2010
<Seeker`> for ubuntu-uk
<DJones> Maybe thats when it became offical and had a logbot
<daftykins> after anything in particular?
<Seeker`> trying to work out when mootbot first appeared
<Seeker`> Trying to remember if I actually wrote it, or whether I stole the code from elsewhere :P
<DJones> Seeker`: Have you been sued for copyright yet? If not, its yours :)
<daftykins> or it's really bad? ;)
<Seeker`> DJones: haha, no. But I don't maintain meeting bot code any longer either :P
<Seeker`> Just a discussion I'm having with someone elsewhere. I *think* I wrote mootbot in response to an ubuntu-uk meeting that went on forever
<Seeker`> I'm not sure who was around back then though :P
<Seeker`> other than popey
<popey> :)
<popey> pretty sure we have older logs than that
<Seeker`> yay! it's popey!
<popey> maybe not
<Seeker`> apparently I did write it in response to an overly long meeting https://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/Blogs/Amber-Graner-You-in-Ubuntu/Meetings-Minutes-and-Mootbot
<popey> I've seen it used by other projects too
<popey> including fedora and suse
<Seeker`> I think the original mootbot is long dead, but there have been ports of rewrites of rewrites etc.
<popey> heh
<Seeker`>  It was started as a clone/replacement of meetbot by HolgerLevsen, which was itself a derivative of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot used by the Ubuntu Scribes team
<Seeker`> That's the debian one
<DJones> Did mootbot become alanbell's meetingology
<popey> maybe
<daftykins> i take it the other alans didn't drop of the face of the earth - and just eschew IRC these days?
<daftykins> *off
<popey> yeah, busy busy
<DJones> Probably can't get irc in the pepper tunnel
<DJones> Alan Bell is certainly active on twitter with his fire creating peppers
<daftykins> ah good good :D
<daftykins> sad if that Pi project never got any further though
<Seeker`> DJones: I think he reimplemented Mootbot as meetingology
<DJones> quite possibly
<DJones> It was done quite quickly, not sure which source he used
<foobarry> what happened about the pi's ? wasn't that a kickstarter type thing?
<foobarry> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu#/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-18
<daftykins> just seen the best thing on youtube in a while: http://i.imgur.com/HnGcu4l.png
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> yawn
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Is it home time yet?
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, wait, it's not even start time. :-(
<MooDoo> you as well eh TwistedLucidity ?
<TwistedLucidity> Yup. At least I'm off Thurs/Fri. Woo!
<MooDoo> :p
<davmor2> Morning all you wondrous technohippies
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Education Support Professionals Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: you windows abuser you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: :
<MooDoo> p:p
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ZmKbe5oG4
<davmor2> I think that would make the Education Support Professionals happy that or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oo8QzDHimQ
<czajkowski> goood morning
 * zmoylan-pi looks at weather forecast for ireland and wonders how much czajkowski pays for travel insurance... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: more than a pound less than a million like the rest of us :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: thanks for the appreciation dude put a smile on my face, especially when I thought of the appropriate response :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: and i was being nice to you :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hey I was nice back but you can't have that much nice without vomiting so to prevent that I threw in some sarcasm :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: bit of a git about Lomu right?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes, i'm a bit gutted, he was my fave
<TwistedLucidity> He could cover 100m in some ridiculous time if memory serves.
<MooDoo> about 10seconds in his prime iirc
<TwistedLucidity> Was that over grass or over the opposition?
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: I'm in Dublin so joping it behaves before Saturday
<czajkowski> worst comes to it I can work from home :)
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXTa7UCGlk
<zmoylan-pi> at least you can console yourself with supermacs... :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Confusing Alex is most amusing
<popey> ya!
<bigcalm> I haven't listened to RHLSTP for some time. I think I have a few to catch up on
<popey> i watch the videos on youtube these days
<popey> subscribed to his channel
<popey> i was ill a few months back and chugged through loads of them while in bed
<bigcalm> Yeah, I can't listen to talky audio while working. Too distracting. But playing games, driving or being ill in bed are good times to listen
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you think there was a difference for him
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: One would have squeaked a bit more
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity, MooDoo: I remember him kinda jogging the last few metres with an English guy iirc clung to his leg he got slowed to a jog :)
<foobarry> i forgot the bbc red button was stil a thing
<Laney> they'll get space for an extra channel too if they cancel this service
<foobarry> i think its cost cutting thouhg
<Laney> spectrum exists independent of cost
<foobarry> i expect putting anything other than a +1 chan will be Â£ though
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a +50years channel... :-)
<foobarry> or a -24
<awilkins> Have replaced faulty CPU fan. Already my urge to kill is subsiding.
 * zmoylan-pi starts humming loudly and offkey to get awilkins back in the mood... :-P
<foobarry> hello web people
<foobarry> can someone help me with a css tweak pls?
<foobarry> http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/install/ which css do i need to change the colour of "Installing and upgrading Known" ?
<foobarry> ah got it
<foobarry> ignore me
<diddledan> well done :-)
<mapps> hi;]
<diddledan> hiya, mapps
<foobarry> anyone know how readthedocs generates the pdfs/
<foobarry> ? some internal md->pdf script, or a well known process?
<foobarry> don't wanna reinvent wheels
<davmor2> foobarry: have a look pdftk not sure if that is how it does them, but pdftk will do most things with pdf's
<diplo>  foobarry : rst2pdf I think ?
<awilkins> Their source is up on Github
<awilkins> https://github.com/rtfd/readthedocs.org/search?l=python&p=2&q=pdf&utf8=%E2%9C%93
<awilkins> Not found the precise way it does PDF but probably findable with a bit of digging
<diplo> 95% sure it's rst2pdf when I first tried it
<diplo> I've not created any pdf's since I started using it though, just make html pages and rsync those pages to a remote site :)
<zmoylan-pi> if html had a page feed command for printouts html would do 99% of my page formats
<bigcalm> I've ditched VirginMedia's TV (kept phone and 'net) to save money. House already has a satellite dish, so looking at freesat for TV. Anybody here use freesat and/or have recommendations on set-top boxes that record?
<davmor2> bigcalm: the humax HB-1000S has some good reviews
<davmor2> bigcalm: so does the Manhattan Plaza hd-s2 but I don't think that records
<davmor2> bigcalm: but the humax has good reviews all over including argos, currys amazon etc
<marshmn> hi all; how can I make it so that when I double-click on a text file, it will open in Atom by default instead of gedit?
<zmoylan-pi> right click on the file and change the default file handler?
<marshmn> I can select Atom from the "open with" context menu, but how do I make it the default?
<marshmn> zmoylan-pi: thanks - that seems to work for one extension, but there are many file extensions which are "text files"
<marshmn> so is there a way to do it for all of them?
<bigcalm> davmor2: thanks
<foobarry> diplo: awilkins are you using mkdocs? or sphinx?
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015Q3BD74
<daftykins> this looks like a very neat deal for anyone after a super cheap laptop to gift someone, soon
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-19
<diddledan> daftykins, gifts <= 10% * price of computer :-p
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> or gifts <= 0.1 * price of computer
<diplo> foobarry: I use sphinx for writing work docs
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diplo> Morning peeps btw :)
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> diplo: i'm using mkdocs but noticed sphinx/rtd has a collapsed menu option. really need that in mkdocs but unsure if possible
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Yeah, I use the menus all the time, I basically have headline and then sections ie : Distributions and headings of different versions, then a sub heading  under for Install - Configure etc
<diplo> Like this
<diplo> http://docs.syncthing.net/
<foobarry> diplo: ahhh , using rst?
<foobarry> i want those collapisble menus
<diplo> Yeah rst, then covert to html and rsync to another server within the make script
<diplo> I've not looked at mkdocs tbh
<diplo> Looks like it maybe possible by editing the template ?
<davmor2> got this stuck in my head  this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zQ6kgrUjIs
<MooDoo> not heard that in a while
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Use Less Stuff Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Who you calling useless... hmm hmmm ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm sure you makes these up to see if I can find a song, give me a minute, I'm thinking :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm waiting.... ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Used less camera tricks, and less instruments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJYN-eG1zk
<davmor2> JamesTait: can't deny the logic there can you :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'll let you off, because it's Queen.
<davmor2> JamesTait: or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I because they only use 4 chords
<JamesTait> Ah! Better! ð
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> JamesTait, Not International Mens Day!?
<bigcalm> popey: what would you do with your finger if it could go through time?
<davmor2> popey: is that not the same thing?
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ this version is better :)
<popey> bigcalm, poke through to last week and swipe on my own phone what this weeks lottery numbers are
<bigcalm> Hazar
<bigcalm> Would you then remember to do it after cashing in?
<bigcalm> What do we want? Time travel!
<stemount_> when do you want it?
<bigcalm> When do we want it? That's irrelevant!
 * Laney writes to Chris Leslie MP
<MooDoo> you and your timey wimey stuff pah ;)
<diddledan> good moaning
<zmoylan-pi> good moaning nite 'awk
<diddledan> http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/
<zmoylan-pi> that's why the truly paranoid switched to lead ages back...
<zmoylan-pi> or so i've heard...
<zmoylan-pi> <_<
<zmoylan-pi> >_>
<diddledan> spectre apparently has a world record for the largest stunt explosion in history
<zmoylan-pi> meh, me prefers the longest car crashes in blues brothers :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> apple iTunes are offering the james bond collection for a mere 109.99 right now
<diddledan> :-p
 * zmoylan-pi looks shifty at my external hd...
<davmor2> I don't believe that hitchhikers guide to the galaxy and starwars blew up planets :P
<diddledan> should there be some punctuation in there?
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah probably
<diddledan> omg, drupal8 is out!
<daftykins> free Nexus 5 \o/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/klu17bnco4wm791/n5.jpeg?dl=0
<davmor2> daftykins: dropbox living up to it's name there then
<daftykins> non-working? :)
<daftykins> i've noticed some leave the image area blank lately, need a force refresh to come up
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg
<daftykins> there's a more reliable link
<diddledan> that's one wonky display :-p
<daftykins> sure is! my mate did quite the number on it, but Â£26 from ebay should be enough :>
<popey> I watched a couple of flat earth videos a while ago, now youtube keeps offering for me to watch more of them
<popey> These people are bonkers.
<diddledan> popey, as in videos about people that try to tell us the earth isn't a spheroid?
<popey> yes diddledan
<popey> there's a lot of them
<diddledan> I wonder how they think GPS works?
<diddledan> and tv from the sky (satellite tv)
<diddledan> it's pretty obvious that nasa wasn't lying
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i get enough of a daily dose from #ubuntu ;)
<diddledan> daftykins, the penguin is a lie
<daftykins> wow at the guy that advised someone stop updating their kernel by pinning it, then going on and on about it for about 3hrs straight over in -discuss because we told him that was bad advice
<daftykins> mind = blown
<diddledan> really?!
<diddledan> jeebers
<Myrtti> new kernels and 15.10 fixed my "no wifi when returning from suspend" issue, btw.
<ali1234> good to know, i think i encountered that one a few times
<diddledan> I love when things suddenly start working with a standard update
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> April would probably be a good time for any folk wanting LTS + new hardware then perhaps
<zmoylan-pi> 1
<popey> diddledan, they have explanations for all of that
<davmor2> Myrtti: should of been working in 15.04 I tested it :) If you are talking about your xps13
<Myrtti> yeah, I am, but it stopped working somewhere after August after a kernel update
<Myrtti> and now it works again
<davmor2> Myrtti: meh I meant 15.10 it's been a long day  an I lose track of releases ;)
<bittin_> did not have enough in my buffer but asked the americans for help
<daftykins> americans? if you mean #ubuntu that's not US :)
<diddledan> you want a buffer-overflow?
<diddledan> ubuntu podcast: electronic nudity sounds fun
<diddledan> I find it fascinating that eddy snow has become the go-to guy for digital rights campaigning
<diddledan> linux voice podcast points to psdoom - a version of doom where each enemy is actually a process currently running on your system - kill an enemy and the process associated dies meaning you could have a very bad day by killing the enemy number 1 (init)
<diddledan> ref: http://psdoom.sourceforge.net
<diddledan> lol: In the original implementation of the program, 'pid monsters' could be killed not only by the program's user, but also by other 'pid monsters' and normal Doom monsters on the level.
<diddledan> ...Unfortunately, the number of monsters in a given area must be depressingly small in order for them to avoid both intentional infighting and friendly fire. Since monsters would tend to kill each other off until only a few remained in the area, the user was severely hampered
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i remember hearing of that, see i think that is how hacking should be done :P
<diddledan> with the hackers and sysadmins roaming the same environment
<diddledan> and hackers trying to hide round corners when an admin comes along
<daftykins> noclip!
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that was funky when you got to the edge of the play area
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-20
<popey> omg, how have I only just realised that our very own penguin42 wrote BeebEm. http://www.mkw.me.uk/beebem/
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> *gasp*
<diddledan> who knew people in here were actually doing stuff?
<diddledan> I figured as I do as little as possible that everyone else would be the same :-p
<popey> (in 1994)
<daftykins> diddledan: i might have you beat
 * diddledan anticipates the spanking
<diddledan> oh, you don't mean beat as in flogging
<daftykins> nope your luck is out tonight i'm afraid!
 * diddledan pouts
<zmoylan-1i> you always had penguin42 down as a zx spectrum user... :-P
<daftykins> oh so silly but cheapty-cheap: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00Y0LX3BS
<zmoylan-pi> wow it has a webcam!! :-)
<daftykins> i know! *blown away*
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points that the new ones are cheaper than the used one
<daftykins> better yet, a Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD is coming up at 10am
<diddledan> when is black friday?
<daftykins> 27th odd i think
<diddledan> yeah, that's what tech radar says too
<daftykins> thanksgiving confirmed as 26th, yip :>
<zmoylan-pi> day of hell for retail workers in usa...
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> apparently some things start at 6pm the day before, too
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what the body count will be this year :-/
<daftykins> wow i never thought to shop for dishwasher tablets on amazon :P
<daftykins> postage material waste is a concern, though
<zmoylan-pi> buy bulk leave your offspring a lifetime supply of dishwasher tabs :-)
<daftykins> oh i intend for none!
<zmoylan-pi> never leave a tab behind!!
<diddledan> lol @ techradar: The numbers on Black Friday in 2014 were so big that websites fell over like Victorian ladies on a hot day, with HP, Best Buy, Currys, Tesco, Argos, Boots and Game's websites all requiring smelling salts.
<zmoylan-pi> at least argos were selling a fainting couch and boots HAD smelling salts...
<diddledan> I wonder how much amazon will make off AWS servers
<zmoylan-pi> well if they install the software to run aws in the background of computers sold on amazon... lots :-)
<daftykins> that's a bit paranoid
<zmoylan-pi> i have a lenovo :-)
<daftykins> pff
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i do wonder who owns who too :-P
<daftykins> hmm user with a WMV that doesn't play, what fun and games - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13359070/
<daftykins> video is ok, but no audio
<zmoylan-pi> i had audio die in mx player, till i found they had to remove mp3 playback BUT added an addon to add it back...
<zmoylan-pi> for legal reasons
<zmoylan-pi> which is why i don't let android auto update anymore :-)
<daftykins> i turned that off the day facebook bought whatsapp
 * zmoylan-pi goes to see kitten pics to calm down.... http://thechive.com/2015/11/19/these-cat-parents-are-proud-of-their-little-ones-34-photos/
<daftykins> that calls for poking diddledan for emergency kittens
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> enjoying this blindspot series
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> but how can you see it? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> he has a mirror, what is this, the dark ages? :-)
<daftykins> yes!
<zmoylan-pi> well... yes... ok... it is night time...
<mapps> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> does night count as an age... time waiting in a+e excepted of course
<daftykins> or a government queue
<mapps> lots of tv today yay
<zmoylan-pi> a+e isn't a government queue? just with extra pain and gloopiness....
<daftykins> mapps: got a free new phone today! http://www.techblo.gg/stuff/n5.jpeg Â£26 delivered for a new screen
<zmoylan-pi> i got a cheap android 5" phone today to replace a 7" tablet for â¬70 http://www.tescomobile.ie/phones/displayPhone.aspx?p=287
<daftykins> ah har, China's learning your accent ;)
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points, it allowed me to delete the facebook apps and other dross unlike every other android phone so far
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> the Nexii are good for not coming with that tosh :>
<daftykins> i'm going to be staring at my letterbox awaiting this screen, much excitement :)
<zmoylan-pi> i'd say that daftykins needs to get out more but reckon that would be the time the delivery would happen...
<daftykins> i made a little scrap of paper with sellotape on my front door and a mobile # to call :D
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> mutter mutter, not till i have a bowl of porridge mutter...
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> I got a bit of Nancy Sinatra stuck in my head this morning Kinky Boots the film has a lot to answer for :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: David Bowie for me at the moment.
<SuperMatt> when did systemd land in Ubuntu? Was it utopic or vivid?
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh I have some of his in my morning headsong list already
<davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwk75Fek3qs
<MooDoo> yeah i'll stick to DB :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: which mr bowie are you stuck with?
<awilkins> Dammit, now you Bowie-d me
<awilkins>  /Life on Mars/
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> I'm listening to five years
<zmoylan-pi> mention of bowie reminded me to check into chris hadfields album i heard mention of earlier in the week. digital download only... boo...
<Myrtti> would FLAC make you feel better about it?
<zmoylan-pi> a cd i could chuck in a box after i rip it is my usual method...
<Myrtti> https://www.7digital.com/artist/chris-hadfield/release/space-sessions-songs-from-a-tin-can/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkq7WZTzkLQ
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that covers it nicely :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'll give you that, well played. I was looking at https://youtu.be/q4zbtC3-hIw
<davmor2> bit hard to sing along with :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh there is the reprise version too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8MWjFO9NCc
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're just trying to slyly sneak Christmas in early, aren't you? ð
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a christmas tree in tescos yesterday.  it's too late... save yourselves... \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: You pick the days not me ;)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: there were christmas supplies in before halloween
<zmoylan-pi> nah but this was a lit up crimbo tree just inside the door
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> has there been a ps4 price drop recently
<foobarry> starting to want one
<zmoylan-pi> the price drop comes 2 days AFTER you buy one, is this your first expensive electronic purchase? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best is ordering a psion 5mx and it arriving on the day psion announced they were going to stop making pdas...
<foobarry> Sony has finally confirmed a Â£50.00 price drop on the PlayStation 4, making the console's recommended retail price Â£299.99 in the UK for the 500GB model and â¬349.99 across the rest of Europe.
<mapps> hi;]
<diplo> foobarry: I've seen them on hotukdeals for around Â£250 on certain deals
<diplo> So defo worth shopping about or the dreaded black friday sales
<davmor2> That the xmas lights competition won then https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUNAO0GVEAALF1D.jpg
<diddledan> nice
<zmoylan-pi> i still prefer... http://www.lovethispic.com/image/52699/dont-put-lights-on-a-palm-tree :-P
 * diddledan sniggers
<davmor2> diddledan: I preferred them as marathons :P
<davmor2> Right About Now! the funk soul brother....
<zmoylan-pi> which for some reason was used in ireland in an advert for wap to make it look cool and hip and useful...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, wap. that be new fangled shenanigans!
<zmoylan-pi> it's like html for sms!!
<davmor2> diddledan: stands for way advanced protocol rigth?
<zmoylan-pi> and just like minitel in ireland it had a huge launch and no one used it as it cost silly money
<diddledan> hmm. lastpass is broken
<diddledan> they appear to be entirely gone from the web
<davmor2> diddledan: probably got hacked but don't worry your passwords are safe with them
<zmoylan-pi> they're adding 1 character to every password for fun...
<diddledan> maybe they're being DDoSed?
<diddledan> their website is timing out
<diddledan> chrome helpfully says "The server for https://lastpass.com/ took too long to respond. It may be overloaded."
<zmoylan-pi> the nsa is backing up their data :-)
<davmor2> diddledan: http://www.securityweek.com/security-flaws-lastpass-exposed-user-passwords
<diddledan> yeah, they fixed those
<davmor2> diddledan: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/lastpass.com
<awilkins> Why do people trust a third party service to keep their passwords safe anyway?!?
 * awilkins uses Dropbox + Password Safe + compatible programs
<davmor2> I just use Hunter2 nobody guesses that
<awilkins> It's astounding how all IRC clients still implement that password protection feature - all I saw was *******
<davmor2> awilkins: I does blow the mind right, I bet you copy pasted that right cause I saw Hunter2 my end :)
<zmoylan-pi> postits on your monitor is the way to go but you have to cover any webcams if you wear glasses :-)
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<zmoylan-pi> !wakka
<daftykins> Pacman?
<zmoylan-pi> or fozzie bear...
<daftykins> hurrah i finally got a jacket i ordered 1 month ago delivered to my local Blacks shop :)
<zmoylan-pi> now you just need to 1) get to shop 2) get staff member 3) one who can find item 4) can work a till 5) acknowledge you ordered it...
<zmoylan-pi> good luck :-)
<daftykins> oh it's about 30m from my door, so all done :)
<daftykins> benefits of living 5m from the high street
 * zmoylan-pi puts on kettle and awaits tale of horror... L0(
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<zmoylan-pi> hand went asleep...
<daftykins> ;]
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<popey> yay
<daftykins> popey: that's a fine days work :D
<popey> My work here is done!
<daftykins> \o/
<davmor2> !popey
<lubotu3`> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> Nice
<diddledan_> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> It's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party - download at http://ubuntu.com/download/
<diddledan_> Lies
<daftykins> why?
<diddledan_> Xenial isn't due yet
<daftykins> got quite a while :)
<daftykins> a new LTS is much excite, however
<diddledan_> But the name isn't fun like wily tho
<daftykins> a mate in another channel was testing wily on an old PC, he had some kind of card that was getting misidentified by the kernel at bootup, yet worked fine in trusty
<daftykins> at one point it disappeared so i mentioned the ol' PSU power connector detach from the motherboard to fully discharge it, worked a charm and the card came back - yet it took changing slot for the card to be identified
<daftykins> seemed like something from the days before programmable interrupt controllers
<diddledan_> Wow!
<diddledan_> Old hardware few
<diddledan_> Ftw
<directhex> have been working many days to get mono updated for ubuntu x
<daftykins> that bringing all the open sauce MS .NET goodness to Linux land?
<daftykins> i say goodness but i know nothing of it :)
<directhex> daftykins: well, mono 4.2 has more microsoft source code in it than 4.0, and 3.12- it was just standalone libs, not their core class library stuff
<daftykins> interesting
<directhex> well technically they both have just as much microsoft source, it's just in 4.0 only a limited number of microsoft's files are compiled in
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-21
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> ;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi hugs cup of coffee for warmth...
<bittin_> http://i.imgur.com/KiL8VpZ.png WIP
<Bob_8732> @search jamie oliver
<zmoylan-pi> oO
<brobostigon> https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/3tlgsb/early_demo_of_pebble_ubuntu_phone_integration/ :)
<tripleclones> has anyone had any joy getting block n load to run in steam/wine?
<daftykins> tripleclones: consulted the appdb?
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hi
<tripleclones> daftykins: yes only found one reference by someone who says he uses SteamCMD but I'm having no joy
<tripleclones> other games in Windows steam working fine just this one :(
<daftykins> first world problems :)
<daftykins> mapps: lo \o
<mapps> hello]
<mapps> is not so nice here atm
<mapps> big dark cloud
<daftykins> down in paradise!?
<mapps> i guess;p
<penguin42> clear and cold here, it's been dark and rainy most of the week
<daftykins> my bedroom, up in the uninsulated roof, is down to 14 deg C
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bittin_> morning
<brobostigon> morning bittin_
<diddledan> ello
<diddledan> I is 'ere
<diddledan> who missed me? :-p
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> popey: why?
<popey> penguin42, hey!
<popey> penguin42, I only recently discovered (or re-discovered) that you are the author of BeebEm
 * penguin42 nods
<penguin42> popey: It's kind of crazy, I wrote it ~20 years ago and haven't done anything with it for ages, in the mean time people have ported it all over and added loads of peripherals and stuff
 * popey wishes there was an SDL2 port :)
<penguin42> should be pretty easy to do
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> I see a volunteer :P
<penguin42> yeh, I expect to see a Ubuntu phone running Monsters
<penguin42> hmm, actually; I bet you could fly rocket-raid using acclerometers
<mapp> good tv night tonight;]
<popey> ugh, autoconf
<daftykins> lul
<daftykins> mapps: still nippy down there?
<popey> bah, don't understand this at all.
<foobarry> i've used that many a time
<foobarry> beebem that is
<bittin_> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9xw7H-ekV7Sa2VwZnJETXVxZ2M&usp=sharing
<bittin_> http://a.pomf.cat/povyxw.jpeg
<daftykins> bittin_: what are these links?
<bittin_> daftykins: a picture from a book and some movies from a club
<daftykins> suspicious looking to me, so i'll pass :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-21
<daftykins> *yawn*
<m0nkey_> Anyone recommend an e-mail host? I'm willing to pay for something decent.
<daftykins> G suite \o/
<daftykins> depends what you need
<m0nkey_> just email
<daftykins> right but that doesn't say what devices to access from, webmail option, technologies for grabbing it, blah blah
<m0nkey_> mobile access for sure
<m0nkey_> imap and probably webmail
<daftykins> new setup or have you been doing something else?
<m0nkey_> this will be new
<daftykins> i love me the rapid setup of G suite though
<daftykins> a wild diddledan_ clone
<m0nkey_> power went out
<m0nkey_> gotta power down
<m0nkey_> cya for now
<daftykins> o/
<m0nkey_> power came back on
<m0nkey_> gotta love UPSs
<m0nkey_> shut down my server in case it was going to be out for longer, turned out it was only out for a few mins
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sometimes i've woken up to the alarm from downstairs and just left it \o/
<m0nkey_> with the server shutdown, the ups in the closet can run the router, modem, switch and wifi for an hour :)
<m0nkey_> and the ups at my desk will run for 20 mins, with my desk lamp on :)
<m0nkey_> that's with my PC and desk lamp
<m0nkey_> Turn off the lamp, I get 30mins
<daftykins> i bought a C whatever to standard sockets so i could put my home router and switch on, i think mine'll go for ages if i turn off the server too
<m0nkey_> that was a funny two minutes, i was the only one with wifi and lights on in the neighbourhood :D
<daftykins> i've had the same UPS for years now, probably going to need a new one before too long
<daftykins> hehe that happened one morning here, there was even some event in town that got a rude surprise - i hopped on here from my phone \o/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy World Hello Day! ð  ð
<SuperMatt> print("Hello, JamesTait")
<JamesTait> 20 GOTO 10
<SuperMatt> print("Hello, JamesTait")
<JamesTait> Hang on, I thought *I* was supposed to be the bot?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> JamesTait: for the opening line https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrOQC-zEog and then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQHsXMglC9A and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ILDFp5DGA  I think that covers it right
<JamesTait> davmor2, not bad. âº   Comfortably Numb is one of my all-time favourite songs.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I thought it was a nice change from the two obvious ones
<JamesTait> I was expecting https://youtu.be/hIcJxJL4MOM
<davmor2> JamesTait: I might of stretched to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtQUJMBH8uE
<diddledan> gotta love a good bit of lionel richie
<diddledan> I do like hello by martin solveig and dragonette, too
<foobarry> can i get later kernels on my LTS?
<diddledan> foobarry: you can use any available HWE kernels (I forget the package naming scheme) or there is a PPA somewhere
<foobarry> thats what i thought. my laptop no longer suspends
<foobarry> would like something newer than 4.4.0
<davmor2> JamesTait, diddledan: please forgive me I completely forgot about this which must say hello more than any other song ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
<diddledan> foobarry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<foobarry> the HWE kernels don't seem to be available yet
<foobarry> in 16.04
<foobarry> ah http://askubuntu.com/questions/836260/how-can-i-use-16-10-yakkety-kernel-in-16-04-xenial
<foobarry> suspend test 1/1 works on yakkety...
<foobarry> sigh...broken still
<davmor2> foobarry: stop suspending simple solution :P
<zmoylan-pi> he likes been kept in suspense, i'll tell you all about it... tomorrow... :-P
<foobarry> whats the alternative to suspend?
<foobarry> turn off screen?
<zmoylan-pi> hibernate?
<foobarry> to disk? ewww
<Seeker`> never turn off your computer, of leave the house if it's a laptop
<zmoylan-pi> do you have access to a red dwarf stasis field? :-)
<foobarry> it needs reinstalling
<popey> what exactly is the issue?
<popey> and have you considered capturing data and filing a bug to get it fixed?
<popey> you can use an upstream kernel, to see if it's an ubuntu specific patch to blame, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<diddledan> popey: wait, someone fixes stuff?
<popey> e.g. http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.8/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi ppp
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popry
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey
<foobarry> if i revert to pre dirty cow it work, so i might try that
<popey> better to go forward than back
<popey> hello SebthreeBQM10HD
<foobarry> i just did something i'm ashamed of
<foobarry> ran some scary polish app from a 3rd party repo
<foobarry> netext73
<foobarry> suspend desperation caused this madness
<foobarry> i feel like a noob
<foobarry> it said my APM was corrupt
<foobarry> hmm "As I discovered, the issue was there was no suspend on lid close at all, the messages in dmesg are just of the i915 driver turning off the display on lid close and trying to put some of its chips into lowpower mode (and failing on "device 40"). Which would by itself a nice behavior, if it would not fail and no suspend is wanted. "
<popey> foobarry: so, time to try different kernels maybe?
<foobarry> this spooky polish software seemed to fix it
<foobarry> 8 suspends and still working
<popey> hah
<popey> wonder what it does?
<foobarry> something to do with APM
<foobarry> its a system checker and gui tool for various system optimisations
<popey> ah
<davmor2> foobarry: did you even check to see if suspend on lid close was enabled in settings?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> it worked seamlessly on old kernels and haphazardly, mostly not on newer ones
<foobarry> it updated my APM
<foobarry> scary . no idea what it did
<davmor2> foobarry: it installed a deep seated virus that is only activated on suspend and then sends all your keypresses to gchq and nsa but don't worry they never loses data
<davmor2> foobarry: so you didn't suspend right?
<foobarry> do machines usually ping after suspend?
<foobarry> mine is
<SuperMatt> maybe, because it might Wake on LAN
<foobarry> in which case the ping is handled by creepy Intel IMT
<foobarry> https://github.com/xuehuichao/freemind-latex handy for someone?
<popey> no, computers don't respond to ping when suspended
<foobarry> "Both Intel AMT and the host OS are able to respond to ICMP ping requests."
<foobarry> aha
<foobarry> suspend while on battery: no pings
<foobarry> plug in power: pings return. quite high latency (4ms). thats the intel IAMT pinging
<foobarry> remove power while suspended, pings stop.
<foobarry> unsuspend, pings return at <0.5ms
<popey> useful
<diddledan> ok, this concept of running doom on everything ever is getting stupid: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/doom-macbook-pro-touch-bar/
<foobarry> what actually is the touch bar?
<foobarry> a OLED touch sensitive slider?
<foobarry> ah, https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/14/the-best-apps-for-macbook-pro-touch-bar-touch-id/
<foobarry> like the Elite keyboard overlay
<foobarry> i like it
<diddledan> mannequins ftw http://digg.com/video/mannequin-challenge-gymnastics-texas-am
<foobarry> wow digg still exists?
<MoBeats> digg does it with ubuntu, just ask Damo.
<foobarry> i think mike pound from computerphile is the best and most prominent advert for ubuntu
<foobarry> canonical should send him some posters for his cubicle. it always looks bare
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I can run Doom on my Sandick Sansa E280 media player.
<TwistedLucidity> "Sandisk". What a typo!
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: sand-ick nope I don't get it :P
<MoBeats> sans dick? apt-get install penis
<foobarry> wow childish much
<foobarry> willy jokes and its only monday!
<MoBeats> it's a digg refernce... had to be there.
<diddledan> oracle are buying dyn: https://www.oracle.com/corporate/acquisitions/dyn/index.html
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/QUQrripCRuM?t=296
 * davmor2 wait for the entire userbase to move to no-ip
<diddledan> "Microsoft is planning to enable x86 on ARM64 emulation in Windows 10 by Fall 2017" http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-x86-on-arm64-emulation-a-windows-10-redstone-3-fall-2017-deliverable/
<zmoylan-pi> so now 1-2 windows tablet users can use desktop windows very slowly? :-)
<diddledan> https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-york-hidden-in-plain-sight/
<zmoylan-pi> just paint it pink and no one will notice...
<davmor2> oh that's diddledan on the watch list ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's now cheaper for gchq to maintain a no watch list... and that just has jeremy clarkson's name on it... :-P
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-22
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SuperMatt> good morning
 * foobarry clocks in
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Go For A Ride Day! ð ð² ð´ ðµ
<foobarry> on yer bike!
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CTPLUcQAjk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3p-F2x7rY I think that covers us
<JamesTait> One of those had better be Bicycle Race.
<JamesTait> Ha!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Of course and then a bit of kraftwork cause why not :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> huskies booked for return to limerick this year? :-P
<foobarry> find it funny that my ancient touchpad is running the newest of androids
<diplo> Guys, best way in your opinion to su - $user without a password, ie ssh to user@localhost with ssh keys?
<diplo> Customer wants it on a dev machine
<foobarry> he wants to sudo without password, or wants passwordless keys?
<foobarry> or ssh-agent?
<foobarry> i use passworded keys and ssh-agent on my machine
<diplo> He wants to change user, so we ssh into the server as one user and the bash profile gives them a choice of 6 different users to connect to, currently does su - $username on each choice and they type the password
<foobarry> sudo allows passwordless user switching
<foobarry> HOWEVER...
<foobarry> you can always put his pub key on the other accounts too?
<diplo> yeah, this is what I was thinking, just sshing to each user using the pub key of original
<diplo> Wasn't sure how bad that was :)
<zmoylan-pi> cassette boy vs snoopers charter... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2fSXp6N-vs&feature=youtu.be
<diddledan> I _think_ you can set sudo to allow passwordless switching ONLY when the user is sshed with a key
<diddledan> ^ foobarry diplo
<foobarry> lots of ubuntu/inux on the code
<foobarry> aussie bbc series
<diddledan> foobarry: did I see correctly that there's a season2?
<foobarry> yes. just watched it. was series 1 any good?
<diddledan> I enjoyed it. was less about the hacking and more the fallout
<foobarry> with the same aspie hugh grant guy?
<diddledan> yup
<diplo> cheers diddledan, think I'll just use ssh keys for now
<diddledan> anyone seen this yet? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/eve-v-the-first-ever-crowd-developed-computer-laptop-tablet#/
<diddledan> I made a logo but someone said it looked a bit risque: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Lvd7HlhX/women's%20institute.png
<foobarry> no idea why
<foobarry> my missis is in WI
<foobarry> "new wave"
<SebthreeBQM10HD> join #ubuntu-on-air
<diddledan> no
<foobarry> request denied
<diddledan> I have a wiki I ran ages ago which I've put back-online. it still works, and I managed to upgrade it to a supported mediawiki!! https://clustergroup.org/index.php/Main_Page <-- that page last updated 2005
<diddledan> https://clustergroup.org/index.php/File:Cluster.jpg <-- my old system running at my parents back around then
<brobostigon> https://en.bentoandco.com/collections/chopsticks-cutlery/products/chopsticks-star-wars-bb-8?variant=26606873991 :)
<popey> pfft, these are better :) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kotobukiya-GZ-114-Yoda-Lightsaber-Chopsticks/dp/B005MZ3QK4/
<popey> (I have had them on my Amazon wishlist for a long while now, but my wife refuses to buy them for me)
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> popey: hahaha it's like she doesn't love you or something ;)  Have you thought about removing everything else from the list so someone has to buy them for you :D
<popey> haha
<popey> that is not a bad idea
<popey> you can have more than one list, I have one called "wishlist" and one called "wish list" - I might do exactly that, put those and one expensive thing on a list and give that to her :)
<davmor2> popey: you just gotta think outside the box dude. If there is a list something else can always be purchased if there is an item that's what he really wants :D
<daftykins> seems Apple have been working on their estimates - https://i.imgur.com/4aST19K.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> use the 37 minutes to order pizza
<daftykins> but there's no such thing here!
<zmoylan-pi> no such thing as pizza deliveries... what is this... a douglas adams novel set in london in the 80s?!
 * zmoylan-pi clicks on a link to read a news item and finds the site favours a light grey text... what muppet decided on grey text on white background...
<daftykins> tried out the reader view? (browser function)
<zmoylan-pi> i just switched to lynx... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> black and white, text only.  barely one step up from teletext... :-D
<zmoylan-pi> wait... teletext had graphics...
<zmoylan-pi> one step sideways...
<foobarry> popey: you want another dashcam?
<foobarry> or this is just a gpslogger?
<foobarry> i'm stalking his wishlist. i bought my wife the MEE earphones
<zmoylan-pi> mee earphones... sounds selfish... :-P
<foobarry> was hoping to get some chrimbo ideas
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: and loud ;)
<popey> foobarry: yeah, broke last one
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> lo stranger
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> watching berlin station;D
<daftykins> one day, a special day... you'll have news other than TV!
<mapps> hah
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<davmor2> Morning all you funky hipsters
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt and davmor2
<foobarry> kindle fire 7inch is Â£29.99 right now
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> morning all
<popey> still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole
<daftykins> agreed!
<foobarry> i got the google stuff working on my missis
<foobarry> its jut a google tablet now
<daftykins> mmm no :P
<foobarry> was looking at how to how automatic alt-tab switching on a display screen. both answers from our very own ali1234
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Fibonacci Day! ð
<ali1234> with wmctrl?
<foobarry> 231116
<foobarry> ali1234: http://askubuntu.com/questions/377901/auto-switch-workspaces
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> wmctrl is better
<zmoylan-pi> so... we stop and remember fibonacci at 11:23? :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think I got you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdJ4zYiEgOQ
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> hi
 * brobostigon is thinking about the new pebble 2 for himself for christmas.
<zmoylan-pi> is that the one you can play doom on?
<brobostigon> you can play doom on all of them, :)
<zmoylan-pi> then i can't see why you wouldn't buy it... :-P
<brobostigon> microphone, colour screen(pebble time), heart rate monitor, more capable OS version,
<zmoylan-pi> and a successful smart watch unlike that apple effort... :-P
<brobostigon> that too,
<zmoylan-pi> not only are you a geek, but you are so geeky you have a successful smartwatch... head geek in every room you enter... \o/
<brobostigon> reason 1, the vibration motor on my og pebble, is dying.
<zmoylan-pi> reason 2, you want it...
<foobarry> is there any way to tru unity8 if you have an nivida graphics card?
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: and in this time of year, the pebble being wterproof etc, its more likely to survive this time of year too.
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hello
<daftykins> woohoo postie just delivered my Â£12.50 copy of Fallout 4 \o/
<daftykins> foobarry: what leads you to believe it's no good for nvidia? o0
<daftykins> oooh *that* unity :)
<daftykins> now i follow
<popey> foobarry: use nouveau i believe
<daftykins> hmm i think my net connection is faster than this DVD is reading... :D
<zmoylan-pi> are there 52x dvd drives? :-P
<daftykins> nope
 * zmoylan-pi remebers the fun of cd-rs exploding in higher speed drives...
<foobarry> popey: i was on nouveau...but also on 17.10alpha...so maybe try 16.10 instead...
<daftykins> might depend on your card :>
<foobarry> since even adding proprietary drivers seems broken
<daftykins> what, via the GUI tool?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> never finishes, but also doesn't tell u what its doing
<foobarry> i expect brokenness though
<daftykins> it's like that on stable versions too
<daftykins> always better to just do package management manually imo
<daftykins> turned out that bit was failing for a mate because of his EFI install, the install process was trying to ask if he wanted secure boot disabled for him or not
<daftykins> i told him to ignore the "help" and do it manually, worked out fine :>
<foobarry> yeah, used the gui to get the package names and used the CLI
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> apt-cache search nvidia- :P
<foobarry> well it was broadcom and intel guff too
<foobarry> intel microcode :S
<daftykins> don't really need that one
<foobarry> most proprietary laptop ever
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> ali1234: had to use viewport to switch ports on unity (wmctrl -o )
<foobarry> migt add a comment to the page
<daftykins> with zeez deal, amazon are really spoiling uzz - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ferrero-48-Piece-Collection-518g/dp/B00GXH2PM0/
<foobarry> still pricey
<daftykins> yip
<zmoylan-pi> that's because the ambassadors drive the price up by hogging them all
<daftykins> hahaha :D
<zmoylan-pi> lidl have a nice generic knockoff that's a bit cheaper
<foobarry> like the guylian shells?
<zmoylan-pi> i couldn't tell you what they are called...
<daftykins> ooh i got gifted those once
<foobarry> Rerrero Focher?
<daftykins> hehe, Ferrero Rochez
<zmoylan-pi> ferrari rolex
<foobarry> i heard of a schoolkid called rolex
<foobarry> was in my teacher friends class
<zmoylan-pi> he was always late?
<foobarry> and ladiamond. whatever that means
<daftykins> only got the right answer twice a day?
<foobarry> http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2016-11-23/man-in-court-accused-of-punching-baby-in-supermarket/
<foobarry> wut
<daftykins> weird
<zmoylan-pi> there's something that will follow him the rest of his life
<foobarry> why would you rush over and punch a doll either?
<daftykins> i think there's a fair bit more to that tale than is reported
<foobarry> has anyone tried budgie remix?
<foobarry> ubuntu budgie actually now as its official
<diplo> foobarry: I use the PPA for budgie on this machine
<diplo> I like it, when I reinstall I'll probably do a fresh of just budgie
<foobarry> i didn't like the spacing on the systray and the cinnamon style app choose
<foobarry> side bar seemed quite nice
<foobarry> although first impressions didn't blow me away
<diplo> Don't have the side bar on mine, keep meaning to look at it
<diplo> I played with Solus too but only in a VM, for me it's just worked with no issues
<foobarry> they change stuff every week on solus though
<foobarry> package manager goes out of the door , rewrite everything in C, etc ,etc
<diplo> New OS, everything changing quickly :)
<foobarry> http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/287242/were-enabling-display-ads-on-select-stack-exchange-sites?cb=1
<daftykins> hmmm tough call looking at super budget laptops for a mate, 1) i5-6200U, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, no DVD, 1366x768 res LCD = Â£332.50 2) i3-5005U, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 1080p res IPS LCD, DVD = Â£266.65
<foobarry> would a chromebook suffice?
<daftykins> never :)
<foobarry> more RAM is good
<foobarry> but has worse screen :(
<daftykins> can easily upgrade the cheapy to the same for Â£75 but yeah
<foobarry> really you want 1) with better screen
<daftykins> and the guy being a bit more senior shall we say, means he might prefer DVD
<foobarry> has to be laptop?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> tried to call him to make the casting vote but he must be busy :D
<daftykins> almost need to buy both, mix and match then return one ;)
<foobarry> screen size?
<daftykins> 15" so true budget tank territory
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-Inspiron-Laptop-Pentium-TrueLife/dp/B01IMX5TV6/ref=sr_1_19?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1479909641&sr=1-19&keywords=laptop
<foobarry> oh, reviews were not kind..
<daftykins> mmm there's a heck of a lot of negative press surrounding that model Dell
<foobarry> can't see what the processor is
<daftykins> pentium dual core in that sucker, ouch
<foobarry> what, the old pentium?
<daftykins> not sure, it's not specific on model # to tell which family
<daftykins> might be more like a baytrail or such like
<foobarry> sometimes if you're buying for an old fella then visiting pc world is a good option
<foobarry> there could be a showstoper or nice but pointless feature they like
<daftykins> they don't exist in Guernsey
<foobarry> but...
<foobarry> "where in the world?"
<daftykins> we're limited to buy online really :) local shops tend to have massively older generation machines in
<foobarry> whats the population of guernsey?
<daftykins> 65,000+
<foobarry> a bit niche then
<foobarry> probably room for 1 pc shop though
<daftykins> we've got 3, 4 if you count the Apple reseller
<daftykins> actually, couple more elsewhere but not sure they hold any kind of retail presence
<diddledan> m00
<daftykins> diddledan: o hai
<diddledan> o/
<Adriannom> Hi. I have two identical laptops with Ubuntu 16.04 recently installed on each. XFCE has been installed and Gnome removed, using the same apt commands. On one machine, NetworkManager cannot connect to wifi APs. When I click on an AP, the connecting icon spins and then after about 20 seconds it says "Disconnected - you are now offline". There was no password prompt even though the AP is secured. Windows 10 on the same l
<Adriannom> aptop connects normally. The other laptop connects normally in Ubuntu. Please help?
<daftykins> compare them from the guest accounts to rule out user dot file quirks
<daftykins> you say identical, even the exact model of wifi card *and* driver?
<Adriannom> daftykins, I'll check.
<Adriannom> daftykins, meanwhile, some log info: http://hastebin.com/ukupovoviy.pl
<daftykins> mmm would be best to see from both to see if they really do match up - i think the guest account bit is still relevant too
<Adriannom> The lshw is identical for the network cards, the laptops were bought at the same time from a big chain store
<Adriannom> Just checking guest account
<daftykins> mmhmm so the intel 3160
<Adriannom> Immediate error on guest session: "Failed to add/activate connection. (0) Active connection could not be attached to the device"
<Adriannom> Immediate when I click the wifi AP I mean
<diddledan> hardware switch?
<diddledan> does it behave the same in a live dvd boot?
<daftykins> yeah that could fit, does say "failed to initiate scheduled scan"
<Adriannom> Offending laptop: http://hastebin.com/raw/qimezimecu - Working laptop: http://hastebin.com/raw/qimezimecu
<Adriannom> I'll check
<Adriannom> I'm guessing it'll work on live cd
<diddledan> both the same link
<Adriannom> haha
<Adriannom> Offending laptop: http://hastebin.com/raw/ukupovoviy - Working laptop: http://hastebin.com/raw/qimezimecu
<daftykins> no avahi talk on the bad one
<daftykins> perhaps 'cause it's a latter stage
<Adriannom> How do you mean?
<daftykins> perhaps avahi only starts doing stuff after, on the working one
<Adriannom> Right, maybe
<Adriannom> Ok live cd wifi works fine
<daftykins> are they the same kernel - and is the kernel line identical? no extra boot params on one etc
<Adriannom> Boot back into problem os?
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> "cat /proc/cmdline"
<Adriannom> Identical apart fromm UUID: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.4.0-47-generic.efi.signed root=UUID=xxx ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7
<daftykins> ok sounds good
<daftykins> is there anything unique about how you did the installs? sounds like your working one is a dual boot and the non-working is ubuntu only?
<Adriannom> daftykins, both dual boot, can't think of any differences :(
<Adriannom> But I guess there might be
<Adriannom> Used an installation script but there were a couple of tweaks needed
<daftykins> oh o0
<Adriannom> Homebrew script just with apt commands and stuff
<Adriannom> Nothing complex
<daftykins> if you run the 'additional drivers' type program are any different choices visible?
<daftykins> have you tried wiping the current user entirely and rebooting? the guest session test earlier would only have been helpful if it was the first account logged into on a fresh boot really i think
<daftykins> in fact NM might do some system-wide stuff now so even that might be irrelevant
<Adriannom> Nope no difference
<Adriannom> I haven't tried that
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt
<Adriannom> I could just create a user right?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> make another, make them an admin type, then reboot
<Adriannom> I was hopeful, but nope
<Adriannom> Same problem
<Adriannom> I could try a hammer?
<daftykins> did your script have any removes or purges?
<Adriannom> Yup, I'll show you the script
<Adriannom> PMed, in case there's anything exploitable in there
<Adriannom> ;)
<daftykins> ok so you've gotten a script there that's doing a lot of what just installing from xubuntu media would do for you
<daftykins> maybe grab the xu ISO and throw it on, see how it behaves
<Adriannom> daftykins, I was hoping to avoid reinstall but if there's nothing else left then I guess I'll have to
<daftykins> you could always run it by the main channel - better eyes in there, but it's down to whether you really want to know the secret or just want it done, i'd say
<Adriannom> Thanks daftykins, appreciate the diagnostics :)
<daftykins> np ^_^
<diddledan> is it just me, or does the hotel over the abu dhabi f1 circuit look like a giant thingy? https://twitter.com/ManorRacing/status/801457961616941056
<foobarry> wow
<daftykins> you're right, a huge maracca
<zmoylan-pi> it looks just like like a turnip?!
<brobostigon> is it baldrick?
<zmoylan-pi> that would be a cunning construct
<brobostigon> :)
<Adriannom> daftykins, reinstalling with xubuntu fixed it. Thanks :) gtg, bye!
<diddledan> \o/
<Adriannom> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan ups their rank on santas nice list...
<brobostigon> http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/713-microG_on_Jolla night come in useful for someone.
<foobarry> https://www.humblebundle.com/books/unix-book-bundle
<foobarry> some classics here
<ball> Oooh, a humblebundle!
 * diddledan bungles it
<ball> I should add some microSDHC cards to my Christmas wish list.
<diddledan> I lose those
 * ball nods
<diddledan> I miss the days when I could count on a byte being big enough that I can notice when I sit on it
<zmoylan-pi> but the papercuts you got sorting punch cards...
<ball> More of a paper tape man, myself.
<ball> I miss my teletype.
<zmoylan-pi> ooooh, fancy
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-24
 * diddledan twiddles his thingies
<diddledan> waiting on drbd
<popey> \o/ finally put a proper snap in the store
<diddledan> popey: \o/
<diddledan> what did you get up?
<popey> mame
<diddledan> nice
<popey> 0.179
<diddledan> that's cheap *ducks*
<popey> this time next year rodney
<diddledan> :-D
<ali1234> how do you install games for it?
<ali1234> i mean where do you have to put them, if it's in a snap?
<popey> put them in ~/snap/mame/common/roms
<popey> or symlink to there
<popey> i copy the mame.ini to ~/snap/mame/common too, so you could edit that and tell it where your roms are if preferred
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
 * foobarry wave
 * zmoylan-pi surfs
<foobarry> You're one of 32,939,105 people pwned in the SC Daily Phone Spam List data breach
<foobarry> sigh
<diplo> I saw that this morning too
<foobarry> i wonder where this list is. want to check the details
<foobarry> SC = spamcannibal? snapchat?
<foobarry> diplo: were you on the modern business solution one too?
<diplo> This is an alert at work, and yes someone was ( doesn't list who )
<foobarry> https://haveibeenpwned.com/
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Evolution Day! ð ð ð ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> https://haveibeenpwned.com/PwnedWebsites is quite a list!
<foobarry> i can't get a dump though
<foobarry> wnat to see if its my personal data or someone elses
<popey> what is sc btw?
<foobarry> we don't know. and there isn't a dump file. https://twitter.com/haveibeenpwned/status/801668899968122880
<popey> thanks
<foobarry> there was a dump file for modern busines solutions but it got taken down
<foobarry> sigh. ordered a bunch of AAA batteries on ebay and neglected to notice the expiry date of 03/2017
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cad2JYi4F0I got you covered bud
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that does it right :D
<foobarry> i have access to the modern business dump but don't wanna install mega download manager on my browser to download it
<foobarry> anyone else win a free bottle of prosecco from british gas?
<SuperMatt> They're just trying to get you drunk so you put out
<zmoylan-pi> it comes with a cook book for using it on recipies so generating business
<MoBeats> happy leet o'clock
<diddledan> you're not 1337 enough
<foobarry> reading unixpowertools from humblebundle
<foobarry> its been a while
<carla_> trans
<Azelphur> so, with the happy fun time that is the investigatory powers bill, does anyone have any suggestions about making the data be inaccessible but maintaining a good speed and low latency connection?
<zmoylan-pi> use a commodore 64 for all your web browsing... no one writes malware for that anymore :-P
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: this is with regards to ISPs being forced to keep a log of connections and that pretty much anyone can get access to it now >.>
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember somewrote a web server for the c64 that streamed music from the datacorder... worked well-ish
<zmoylan-pi> this is when you send your foreign relatives a  pre configured rasp pi for all your vpn needs
<Azelphur> maybe so
<zmoylan-pi> and hope they live in a bastion of freedom like china, saudi arabia, australia were the national firewalls suck
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a good 2A charger ?
<ali1234> yes, the official one
<ali1234> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-universal-power-supply
<foobarry> was thinking for my tablet but thats a geeat idea thx
<ali1234> oh sorry i thought this was the rpi channel
<ali1234> about 50 people ask that question every day there
<ali1234> i do use them to charge my phone and tablet and stuff and they work great
<ali1234> the 2.5A one charges things noticably faster than regular chargers
<declan_marks> I am currently at Anglia Ruskin University and they use eduroam for WIFI. I am currently using Ubuntu 16.10 and I cannot use it. I can connect but the internet doesn't work.
<declan_marks> Why doesn't it work?
<daftykins> heh
<zmoylan-pi> shiny... http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/11/24/pinebook-arm-linux-laptop-powered-by-allwinner-a64-processor-to-sell-for-89-and-up/
<daftykins> terribly underspecced
<zmoylan-pi> more powerful than an old netbook i use every day... :-)
<daftykins> i'd say they're about equal in terms of landfill status
 * zmoylan-pi shakes original olpc at daftykins angrily... :-P
<daftykins> get it away!
<zmoylan-pi> it still has the best laptop screen ever made...
<daftykins> rubbish
<daftykins> looks like i've convinced a wealthy fella to drop Â£2.5k on the 65" OLED 4K TV :D
<zmoylan-pi> been able to use it bw mode outdoors in direct sunlight AND save battery life was brilliant
<zmoylan-pi> nothing bus the best pot noodles for daftykins this crimbo \o/
<daftykins> i'm amazed to discover John Lewis will ship to the rocks, amazon won't anymore
<daftykins> i've never had a pot noodle!
<zmoylan-pi> john lewis is a uk company so probably sees the rock as just non mainland uk
<daftykins> makes me wonder though, can you really charge for your product research time...
<daftykins> yeah but most others refuse to ship here
<daftykins> of course the site fails to do anything about tax
<zmoylan-pi> the rock is an odd place in terms of shipping and taxes so maybe not worth the hassle?
<zmoylan-pi> 65" 4k tv... you'll see every nose hair and pimple
<daftykins> http://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/information-about-shopping-on-johnlewiscom/vat
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> have to train the client to stop buying SD DVDs :P
<daftykins> he did ask me to find a bigger TV, but i doubt he fancies the Â£25k price tag on the 77" version
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, he'll have to hold out for the blu ray of all the pre 70s classics...
<ali1234> you can charge for anything you want
<ali1234> some people do nothing but charge for research...
<daftykins> ho-hum
<daftykins> TV drops to Â£2474 from Â£2969 here in tax free land
<zmoylan-pi> that's a lot of blu rays
<daftykins> nope, only 1 4K bluray player ;)
<daftykins> in fact i should look at those too
<zmoylan-pi> does sony playstation not do 4k blu ray?
<zmoylan-pi> i always heard it was the defacto blu ray player
<daftykins> nope, would you believe it they didn't even bother to put an updated drive in their newer models
<zmoylan-pi> sony have not just jumped the shark but are posing for cheesy pics with it afterwards...
<daftykins> there's a certain benefit to using a console since you can keep getting updates for the app way easier than you'd get player firmware updates, but i doubt a client would want to sit there with a console UI to get something going
<zmoylan-pi> it's also that as there are so many of them that blu ray manufacturers made sure it at least worked on the playstation if nowhere else
<daftykins> hmm i don't see that being a big deal
<zmoylan-pi> safety in been part of the herd
<daftykins> cheaper to buy an xbox one S, figures!
<daftykins> ah Sony, the company that brought out a copy protection on DVDs that rendered many of their own players unable to play new titles
<zmoylan-pi> i lost a lot of trust when they went out of their way in 90s to make their cd players not handle cd-rs or mp3s
<daftykins> mmm
<zmoylan-pi> they make beautiful hardware but their software aspires to merely sucking
<daftykins> looking forward to checking out OLED tech anyway, not even been to a TV shop to see a 4K one in person either
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-25
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<sruli> i need a good bash coder to help me for a few days finish and test complex set of scripts, decent payment in return, pm me if interested, thanks
<sruli> i need a good bash coder to help me for a few days finish and test complex set of scripts, decent payment in return, pm me if interested, thanks
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> sruli: try on reddit?
<sruli> you mean post a ad there? never used reddit
<SuperMatt> it's no different to posting your ad here
<sruli> is there a particular place on reddit? all i see there is news...
<foobarry> there are linux, sysadmin, programming subreddits
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/
<sruli> thanks
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Systems Engineer Day! ð
<SuperMatt> 3
<SuperMatt> oops
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zefaQgPqqac got you covered dude
<davmor2> you like that one JamesTait :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> any recommendations for dimmable led bulbs?
<zmoylan-pi> a led bulb and a paintball gun... :-P
<davmor2> foobarry: hue or smart things I think are the top sellers currently
<foobarry> Â£Â£
<foobarry> wondering waht the amazon basics are like
<foobarry> lightbulbs are so expensive for what they are
<davmor2> foobarry: led one are but they last for ages
<foobarry> anyone tried growing bonsai in an office environment?
<foobarry> unsure if its too hot/dry/cold/fluctuating. we don't have air con but radiators
<brobostigon> foobarry: a friend on mine, has a bonsai in his study, and the temperature can vary quite abit sometimes, but is generally on the warmer side. and it seems to survive.
<foobarry> ta
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/samambreen_/status/802129386493345792
<Seeker`> Because I haven't seen it posted here yet: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/173199
<foobarry> nice try theresa
<diplo> Wish someone had worded it a little better :/
<foobarry> remember the brexit one which was put forward by a brexiteer because he thouht breixt would lose?
<foobarry> then all the remain epople signed it
<foobarry> https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707 why do i think this looks amazing? i already have a laptop
<foobarry> i get excited about cheap stuff
<foobarry> Â£89
<foobarry> $89
<diddledan> foobarry: it is cheap.
<diddledan> really cheap
<foobarry> but..i have a laptop already
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> why do i desire a cheap one?
<diddledan> how many pis do you have? :-p
<diddledan> those pine64s would be awesome to give to someone who just wants to use the interweb and not much else
<diddledan> cheaper than a chromebook!
<diddledan> and, dare I say, more libre
<foobarry> i have a pi zero
<foobarry> but i want a clusterhat thing
<foobarry> the pine thing would be great as a vim /git laptop
<foobarry> big battery and slow drain due to ARM
<foobarry> !There is no way to watch movies on this board due to lack of video drivers on Ubuntu. The only way is using Android.
<foobarry> Owner of Pine64 (2GB RAM)!
<diddledan> :-o
<foobarry> mali i guess
<diddledan> no veedeo :-(
<foobarry> no acceleration maybe
<diddledan> that's sadface
<foobarry> he might be wrong..
<diddledan> it's still smokey (no smoke without fire) though
<diddledan> just hope it's not the magic blue smoke :-p
<foobarry> http://www.dhgate.com/product/meizu-mx5-e-4g-lte-unlocked-cell-phone-octa/388548267.html?recinfo=8,103,1#cppd-1-5|null:103:r0705804391
<foobarry> seem legit?
<popey> not sure I'd buy a flyme meizu
<popey> as in... I wouldn't
<foobarry> its not flashable with adnroid or ubuntu?
<foobarry> https://plus.google.com/+AlanPope/posts/S7gXgc1yKHm this guy reckons its ok :P
<foobarry> not that i would spend that much on a plaything
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nice use of words there!
<diddledan> gotta love when someone's words contradict other words
<diddledan> I'm betting that popey has the best words though
<diddledan> everyone tells popey how great his words are. and how big his hands are
<popey> hm?
<popey> foobarry: nope
<diddledan> sorry, I'm rambling Trump quotes now
<popey> he flashed a pro 5, you linked to an mx5
<foobarry> nurse more pills please
<popey> not the same thing
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that'll explain it
<diddledan> foobarry: all the pills!
<foobarry> is the issue with the phone or the OS?
<popey> which issue?
<foobarry> "not sure I'd buy a flyme meizu "
<popey> multiple reasons
<foobarry> meizu pro is adnroid only?
<popey> they crank out devices then move on
<foobarry> or flyme too
<popey> so support is lacking
<foobarry> story of my life
<popey> i don't know about software updates for flyme os either
<popey> at least with OnePlus they seem to update their phones now and then
<foobarry> i wouldn't want flyme os, rather thought it was one of the cheaper ubuntu phones
<popey> the Meizu Pro 5 is one of the _only_ and most expesive Ubuntu phones
<foobarry> i just lost my firefox tabs. restore old session didn't have them. feel lost
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> foobarry: rare occasion to reinvent your life
<diddledan> </theonion>
<foobarry> i haven't changed my irc handle for a while
<foobarry> then again i haven't said too much incriminating stuff
<diddledan> this is the article I was referencing: http://www.theonion.com/article/accidentally-closing-browser-window-23-tabs-open-p-54705
<foobarry> a measly 23
<ali1234> flymo?
<diddledan> who's Noel and why do people only acknowledge him at christmas and then in an OTT manner?
<diddledan> it's like we go all year not mentioning him and then suddenly everyone is noel this and noel that
<diddledan> of course, my name would be bad without any el
<diddledan> I'd be Danie Eweyn
<Gargoyle> surely it would be diddedan!?
<diddledan> well that too
<davmor2> diddledan: Noel he's a bloke from Crinkley Bottom runs a house party and opens boxes
<diddledan> I don't want to know about his crinkley bottom!
<zmoylan-pi> they're all crinkley bottoms by the time noel is finished with them
<ali1234> is it just me or is scanning completely broken on 16.04?
<ali1234> i have two 16.04 systems and two scanners and none of them works in any combination
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hplip/+bug/1576800
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1576800 in HPLIP "scanner doesn't work after linux update to 16.04" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/844153/after-upgrade-to-16-04-scanner-canon-pixma-mg3100-does-not-work
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/791556/not-working-brother-scanner-in-ubuntu-16-04-though-driver-installed
<ali1234> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2340138
<diddledan> ali1234: it's a conspiracy
<zmoylan-pi> i knew you were going to say that!
<diddledan> the idea is to prevent you from scanning stuff in an attempt to reduce the size of emails
<diddledan> the internet is at breaking point, see, so the powers that be are attempting to reduce email traffic to allow the internet to last another 2 weeks
<zmoylan-pi> think of the bandwidth if you could enforce a ban on cat videos...
<diddledan> yeah but those are too pervasive. there would be outcry if cats were censured
<zmoylan-pi> even a netflix like isp cache for cat videos would save a bucket load of bandwidth...
<daftykins> diddledan: or it could be Linux working as well as usual
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, i still have scars from scanning in windows...
<diddledan> wait, linux doesn't work well?
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> network scanning, multipage scanning, duplex ::eye twitch::
<brobostigon> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-make
<ali1234> diddledan you have been reading too much r/bitcoin
<daftykins> yay Louis is live \o/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCvEzqDq8U
<diddledan> empty chair
<daftykins> finest of streamers \o/
<zmoylan-pi> he's disassembling a burrito
<zmoylan-pi> one bite at a time
<diddledan> the question is, if you're livestreaming publicly, does the NSA still hack into your video separately?
<zmoylan-pi> yes, because they can
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not in nibbles?
<diddledan> I like 4bits
<diddledan> nibbles ftw
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> taking nibbles from burritos results in core dump
<daftykins> oh my, so graphic
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that's the next morning
<zmoylan-pi> no, that's burning in a new system
<diddledan> why do apple-written OS service programs cause sandbox violations?!
<diddledan> (looking at his dmesg outputs)
<zmoylan-pi> pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-26
<diddledan> eddy snow talking about the us electing Tumper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98eabjjAEz8
<diddledan> Trumper*
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/circuitstatic/status/802314964090224640
<daftykins> needs an IP camera too
<daftykins> probably one not susceptible to the botnet malarkey
<diddledan> and not one with an easy-to-access port that the baby can hack it though
<diddledan> (I almost typed "easy to access porn"
<diddledan> I guess I must type porn a lot
<daftykins> muscle memory, mm
<mapps> hi
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> hey mapps you checked out the amazon series 'Goliath' ? worth a go :P
<mapps> hmm no]
<mapps> sec
<daftykins> 5am zmoylan-pi \o
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> will check it, cheers
<mapps> bucketing down here, rained heavy allll day
<daftykins> nasty
<mapps> got soaked walking home from the gym :Z not been out since
<daftykins> surely it's perma paradise?!?
<mapps> rain> or normally?
<daftykins> normally yeah
<mapps> normally its ok, normally rains tiny bit in winter and stops, this has been for hourssss
<mapps> i came home 8pm..rained since heh
<mapps> forecasrt shows rain all day too
<mapps> makes it a pain going anywhere
<daftykins> mmm i'll bet
<daftykins> surely distances are even less than on my rock though :D
<mapps> well yea but when its heavy rain 5mins and soaked through
<daftykins> story of my life :) school was a 5 min cycle but i swear i'd get wetter than mates who rode miles in
<mapps> heh
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, Morning.
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, The hexchat upstream have published the current stable HexChat in the snap store.
<flexiondotorg> Any chance you'd consider unpublishing your unofficial hexchat snap?
<diddledan> flexiondotorg: right-oh
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, Cheers.
<diddledan> done
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, Much appreciate.
<diddledan> great that they're publishing directly! awesome of them :-)
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, I work for Canonical BTW. I've been working with the hexchat guys to publish their snap :-)
<diddledan> aha
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, Thanks for your help.
<diddledan> do you know if the issue with scrollback reloading got fixed by snapd/confinement stuff? it was blocking the glib file access function from reading due to it trying to chown the file to the user running the snap
<diddledan> I think it's akin to "this file is mine, make sure it be mine!" :-p
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, I'm not familiar with that issue.
<diddledan> ok
<flexiondotorg> I know we have a few issues the the hexchat guys have identified.
<flexiondotorg> For example, the current snap is not built without dbus support.
<diddledan> there's an LP bug about it somewhere
<flexiondotorg> So I've got some work items as a result.
<flexiondotorg> If you can forward me the bug I'll take a look.
<diddledan> hmm, I can't find it now I'm looking for it
<flexiondotorg> OK, I have a bouncer here, so if you turn something up just tag me :-)
<diddledan> flexiondotorg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1581310
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1581310 in snapd (Ubuntu) "please allow chown for calling user (eg, for files in SNAP_USER_DATA or chowning to root)" [High,Triaged]
<flexiondotorg> diddledan, Thanks.
<SuperEngineer>  Discovery of the week:  if you turn your wireless keyboard off before aiming a dyson at it, it works much better if you remember to turn it back on afterwards
<brobostigon> lolz.
<brobostigon> yep.
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: did you get your dyson on-target?
<SuperEngineer> sure did :-)
<m0nkey_> https://holidayhole.com/
<m0nkey_> Cards against Humanity aren't giving the proceeds to charity. This is a for profit thing. And people are paying money for them to dig a hole. It's hilarious.
<penguin42> that's hilarious
<m0nkey_> Anyone here use gandi.net for domains?
<penguin42> hmm I think I have one of mine on gandi
<m0nkey_> they any good?
<penguin42> or do I, hmm, I could swear I had one....
<m0nkey_> I like the fact they support OSS projects
<penguin42> oh yeh, my main one is with them now
<penguin42> m0nkey_: Seems to work, only used them for one domain for less than a year
<Gargoyle> Have I got some odd issue with my system, or is not being able to change the desktop background a known issue!?
<Gargoyle> nvidia drivers, btw.
<Gargoyle> Same with the open source driver.
<Gargoyle> :(
<halt> Hey guys, is there any way to upgrade from lucid nowdays ?
<halt> I run into this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-defaults/+bug/990740 but the workarounds oes not work anymore as the lucid-updates repo is not available any-more
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 990740 in python-defaults (Ubuntu) "upgrading from lucid to precise fails" [High,Invalid]
<penguin42> it's probably in an archive somewhere
<diddledan> halt: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades/
<zmoylan-pi> nooooooooooo........! http://www.thewrap.com/ron-glass-barney-miller-firefly-actor-dies-71/
<halt> diddledan: nice one thx
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-27
<Nokaji> Hi, for some reason Ubuntu Software fails to display any software lists, e.g. under All & Installed. Updates states up to date and last checked 06:07. Fortunatley I can install proggies via Synaptic Prog Mgr but I now cannot search for new software
<daftykins> 'ubuntu software centre' ?
<daftykins> you're not giving any information about your setup
<daftykins> like, version - the #1 :D
<daftykins> Nokaji: psst, are you off getting replied to in another channel?
<SuperEngineer> yup, he/dhe appears to have joined channel #impatient&away ;)
<daftykins> ah well, it's better than #cross-post-and-hassle-others
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<SuperEngineer_> [please ignore this, testing mobile setup ok]
<SuperEngineer_> [seems to work OK]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> aww yeah one 65" OLED TV on the way :O
<SuperEngineer> ...and some cinema seats, popcorn and annoying that bloke wearing a hat will follow
<SuperEngineer> *that annoying
<SuperEngineer> BBC News reports: "A coach carrying dozens of tourists becomes trapped in a sinkhole when a water main bursts"
<SuperEngineer> Guess that TV arrived early!!
<SuperEngineer> Street couldn't take the extra weight :-O
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> they're crazy light now, if it weren't for the bulk i'm sure i could lift this new one by myself
<daftykins> i can carry my 55" LED samsung from a couple of years back around by myself
 * SuperEngineer sticks with his theory
<SuperEngineer> ...all those extra cinema goers using the big tv as a substitute
<daftykins> our cinema is so bad, i've preferred home viewing for years :>
<SuperEngineer> [don't forget to buy a popcorn machine
<daftykins> that would be nice
 * acheronuk sets mode +F1
<daftykins> yawn :>
<acheronuk> daftykins: that @ F1? if so, I can sympathise a bit, as in recent years I've struggled to care who wins
 * SuperEngineer also sets same mode.  daftykins, acheronuk:  motorised gladiators on any size tv... yum yum
<SuperEngineer> last race of season, title tey to be decided, short odds for one of two... watch it and see
<SuperEngineer> *yet
<acheronuk> yep, I've been a bit cool on watching the rest of the season, but if this race is competitive then should be good.
<SuperEngineer> ..and from one who was at the Britidh race:  "You weren't there, man!"
<diddledan> m00
<penguin42> how is Nouveau these days? I notice there are quite a lot of cheap fanless Nvidia cards now
<marxjohnson> I'm trying to write udev rule to run a script when I insert a blu-ray, but the rule doesn't seem to get triggered.
<marxjohnson> I'm clearly missing something big, because even a really simple rule isn't working.
<marxjohnson> I've got the following in /etc/udev/rules.d/99-disc-script.rules:
<marxjohnson> SUBSYSTEM=="block", KERNEL=="sr0", RUN+="touch /tmp/basic_rule_triggered"
<marxjohnson> which I think should touch that file whenever there's an event from /dev/sr0.  But I eject and load, which triggers events I can see with udevadm monitor, and no file
<penguin42> marxjohnson: Is the problem that the rule gets triggered on the creation of sr0 - i.e. when it finds a blu-ray drive, not when media gets inserted?
<penguin42> marxjohnson: i.e. I've got a /dev/sr0 even though my DVD drive is empty, so I think the rule gets triggered near boot
<marxjohnson> penguin42: Right, but as I understand that rule should be triggered for any event from sr0, not just it's creation?
<penguin42> marxjohnson: Hmm I'm not sure about that
<marxjohnson> for example, here is a thread from linux questions where someone uses a similar rule to run ripping software when a disc is mounted https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/using-udev-to-automatically-run-a-script-on-optical-disc-mount-792428-print/
<diddledan> marxjohnson: did you restart udev?
<ali1234> sudo udevadm control --reload-rules
<marxjohnson> diddledan: ali1234: yep, tried that
<ali1234> i think penguin42 is right
<ali1234> to run things when a disk is inserted you probably want to use udisks instead
<diddledan> also it looks like the command which that guy ended-up using included a detection on the variable DKD_MEDIA_AVAILABLE
<diddledan> SUBSYSTEM=="block", KERNEL=="sr0", ENV{DKD_MEDIA_AVAIABLE}=="1", RUN+="/usr/local/bin/detectdisc"
<diddledan> so when the variable flips to =1 rather than =0 (i.e. when the disk is present I believe) then it runs the command. otherwise it's only gonna run on creating /dev/sr0
<diddledan> I believe udev rules only fire when the elements match. and then only fired once until the elements unmatch again.
<marxjohnson> diddledan: That's not working for me either.  I figured less conditions in the rule with mean more matches, i.e my rule should trigger whether a disk is loaded or ejected
<marxjohnson> ali1234: THanks, I'll look at udisks
<diddledan> marxjohnson: I'm kinda guessing though, so please take everything I suggest with a healthy dose of "diddledan is an idiot and obviously wrong"
<diddledan> now, what can I buy off ebay for at least Â£25?
<diddledan> (I got a Â£20-off when you spend Â£25+ voucher)
<marxjohnson> diddledan: I'm kinda guessing too.  Lots of things I've read on the web suggest other people have done something like what I'm trying to do, but I dont really understand udev
<marxjohnson> or rather, dont really know about it
<diddledan> I think udev is one of those things that is somewhat "if it works don't touch it" so we don't find-out how to meddle with it
<diddledan> I really need to rip-out my desk and cables and reinstall everything neater
<zmoylan-pi> and 15 minutes after you've finished you'll need to re add it to your todo list :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-20
<zmoylan-samj3> they start so young ::sniff:: :'-) https://www.wired.com/story/10-year-old-face-id-unlocks-mothers-iphone-x/
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> awwh, no startrek today :-(
<diddledan> gotta wait until January :-o
<zmoylan-pixi> or break out your emergency usb drive with st;tos/lite/tng/ds9/voy/ent on it
<zmoylan-pixi> plus a movie or two
<brobostigon> only the TOS and TNG films, :)
<brobostigon> and scrub ENT, :)
<diddledan> ear nose and throat?
<zmoylan-pixi> couldn't watch ent when it came out but while tge trek drought after it flopped happened i went back and liked it
<diddledan> I can't cope with ruby-style languages - it just looks alien to me: https://crystal-lang.org/
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/Turblog/status/932615816583045120
<m0nkey_> You'll hate Grails then.
<m0nkey_> https://grails.org/
<foobarry> anyone know how to limit the number of threads java program might use?
<foobarry> by default, it uses all on the machine
<leecowdrey> 32bit JVM 6.5K threads
<leecowdrey> not my text but...
<leecowdrey> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Im8HBHsL/
 * Gargoyle gives a big cheer for everyone here. (ucaday)
<daftykins> woo!
<daftykins> (what's that?)
<diddledan> uca day is ubuntu community appreciation day
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> the idea is to share a bit of love
<zmoylan-pixi> well we kinda missed that one then...
<daftykins> here i'll let you folks pet my cat!
<zmoylan-pixi> i'll be home tomorrow... but morgan the main house kitty died while i've been in hospital. he was 17...
<zmoylan-pixi> i'll just have to see if pebbles will be more approachable now...
<daftykins> aww :(
<daftykins> glad to hear you're heading home \o/
<zmoylan-pixi> nearly 7 weeks... a new personal 'best'...
<diddledan> 7 weeks?! :-o
<diddledan> what did they remove?
<daftykins> everything D:
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-21
<zmoylan-pixi> just 1 toe
<diddledan> I shall now call you hop-a-long
<zmoylan-pixi> and 6 weeks of iv antibiotics
<diddledan> dang, that's a lot of infection
<daftykins> yep the toe got a whole case of zmoylan for years ;D
<zmoylan-pixi> then had to wait a few days for picc line to be removed... pic.twitter.com/83m6d42Ari
<diddledan> when I see a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTUQyEr-sg0
<diddledan> must. click. the. link.
<daftykins> mm falling asleep here, g'night \o
<shahin> Hi, anyone can suggest about linux free course via online??
<SuperMatt> hey hey hey
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-samj3> yayyyy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> what do i ask the in-laws for for xmas?
<foobarry> they will buy something i don't need unless i give an idea
<brobostigon> can i ask my in-laws to clear my credit cards?
<foobarry> leecowdrey: its on an HPC cluster. so the machine has 48 cores, but the job requests only 1 core so instead of 48 threads (confined into 1 cpu lol)  i want it to use 1. other apps manage it, not java
<leecowdrey> foobarry: ok so following `number of threads = total virtual memory / (stack size*1024*1024)` then determine current virtual memory `ulimit -v` and apply at the process level of the user running java with `ulimit -s newvalue` for soft limit and `ulimit -v newvalue` for the hard limit. This constrains maximum available not maximum used, so given it is java then you manage maximum used from in Java within your
<leecowdrey> code (i.e. limits specified in ExecutorService)
<leecowdrey> foobarry: you can though set machine wide rather than process specific; to retrieve it: `sudo cat /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max`, to set it: `sudo echo 123456789 > /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max`
<foobarry> leecowdrey: fogive my java ignorance, but is there an easy way to limit to 1 thread? because what i see happening is lots of unecessary threads when the user just requested 1 core. more threads lowers the performance because the scheduler (and cgroups) has limited the user to the 1 core they requested although the compute node has 48 cores.
<foobarry> hence he gets 11mins runtime instead of 3mins on his desktop because of these many threads constrained to 1 cpu
<foobarry> he's running java -Xmx10G , requesting 1 core and 15G from the job scheduler
<foobarry> gonna play with ulimit
<SuperMatt> Christ, I am so bored. I'm WFH today, spent the last hour napping, and didn't have a single email or message waiting for me. The new job couldn't start soon enough
<foobarry> learn tensorflow!
<foobarry> ther's good tutorials on youtube
<foobarry> i am literally doing 3 things at once today
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Seeing Java mentioned, reminded me of this - https://www.humblebundle.com/books/java-books
<TwistedLucidity> leecowdrey: ^
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: You want to limit Java to only ever run one thread on one core?
<leecowdrey> foobarry: if you want to limit to 1 thread then dont use threads
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: yeah, or at least one thread PER core
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Is the code yours (i.e. you can edit/configure it) or third party?
<foobarry> how to not use threads?
<foobarry> its a user's code, and he's using some 3rd party bits
<TwistedLucidity> Hah. Game over then, the third party code could start as many threads as it sees fit.
<foobarry> i seeem to be having some success with ulimit
<TwistedLucidity> Limiting it to n threads, sure; that should be doable
<foobarry> need to benchmark to see impact on the speed though
<foobarry> i'm doing ulimit -v as per lee
<TwistedLucidity> "ulimit -u <number processes>"?
<TwistedLucidity> Must confess, this isn't something I've had to worry about. Mostly I've sobbed over GC issues.
<TwistedLucidity> You've probably read this (and it looks simialr to Lee's suggestion) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17341883/limiting-number-of-threads-used-by-the-jvm
<foobarry> i wish irc showed visited links in red :P
<foobarry> java is the worst code for HPC
<foobarry> it's not H or P
<TwistedLucidity> It's a tool for a job
<TwistedLucidity> Your user /might/ be able to do something with "Executors.newSingleThreadExecutor();"
<foobarry> the other threads don't seem to do anything
<foobarry> sit at 0% cpu even when i allow more cores
<foobarry> https://imgur.com/a/I9IYg
<twinsen^wee> ++
<foobarry> they are in S state
<diddledan> why do we have /bin AND /usr/bin ?! http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
<daftykins> diddledan: now i'm killing disks in the builders laptops, sandybridge i3 acer with 202 bad sectors today
<leecowdrey> ....When UNIX was first written, /bin and  /usr/bin physically resided on two different disks: /bin being on a smaller faster (more expensive) disk, and /usr/bin on a bigger slower disk. Now, /bin is a symbolic link to  /usr/bin: they are essentially the same directory.
<leecowdrey> well not linked on ubuntu but other platforms (UNIX not Linux) were
<leecowdrey> so historical hangups..... there was some plans to tidy it all up as does not just apply to /bin and /usr/bin - plenty of other examples
<diddledan> daftykins: you complete barsteward
<daftykins> diddledan: he said his granddaughter went to use it and it didn't boot anymore!
<diddledan> what kind of "help" do you call killing a disk?!
<leecowdrey> daftykins: well it wont boot now, i know, you just making sure right ?
<daftykins> diagnosis, then popping in an old spare + upgrading it to win10
<daftykins> leecowdrey: haha, it's just a joke - i didn't kill it really - just identified it was bad in the SMART data
<daftykins> me and diddledan just have a long running joke
 * daftykins winks
<diddledan> I'm finally catching up on stranger things
<diddledan> up to episode 6
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i've been moving slow on season 2 myself
<diddledan> I'm on s1 :-o
<diddledan> yey for netflix meaning I get to watch at my leisure though
<diddledan> broadcast is so passÃ©
<daftykins> i much prefer download :P
<daftykins> consistent quality, higher bitrate... #1
<diddledan> is that "download" or "download ;-)"
<daftykins> although i did just pay Â£150 to an aerials guy to put a brand new antenna on my roof and leave a drop cable in my eaves corner, so i'll wire things up internally later
<leecowdrey> daftykins: punny
<diddledan> besides the chief, is there only two other policemen? (the ones in uniform)
<diddledan> they seem to be the only two you ever see, at least
<daftykins> small town!
<daftykins> secretary counts in a way, too ;D
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i am really tempted to pull the trigger on a 55" LG OLED B7 and a new 4K capable AV receiver given these sale prices
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> TV is down to Â£1,250 to rock dwellers now!
<diddledan> I think we should impose special rock-duty on you lot
<daftykins> our government shall tell you your fortune!
<daftykins> we already get royally *cough* inconvenienced by your gov on a regular basis
<diddledan> I'd rather they give me my fortune
<daftykins> if they demanded tax from us we'd have to dump, er, not tea but maybe our actual lovely exports into the harbour
<diddledan> even that gorgeous butter?!
<diddledan> that'll make a mess
<daftykins> swimming in the harbour might become a varied experience
<daftykins> maybe the butter will set off any further WW2 bombs that haven't been found, (one was just the other day)
<daftykins> the ferries had been going over the top of it all those years
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> I love the synthesized sounds on the stranger things intro
<daftykins> :D ja
<daftykins> nice and bassy too
<diddledan> they're building a sen-dep tank
<diddledan> what's the salt for?
<diddledan> bouyancy?
<daftykins> shh spoilers to anyone present who has not seen :P
<diddledan> nice bat!
<diddledan> I think they forgot the cheese though
<diddledan> looks like zimbabwe has a new president
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-42063744
<diddledan> of course it was an entirely consensual accession that mugabe agreed to willingly
<diddledan> https://i.imgur.com/bkfZ02p.mp4
<daftykins> absolutely
<diddledan> https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/vUGrr0nycaelcE_s2ZSR6g4Hlh8=/0x211:2288x1498/1600x900/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50821489/spam-wall.0.0.jpg
<diddledan> SPAM!
<daftykins> don't think i've ever tried any
<diddledan> it's a mainlander thing :-p
<diddledan> you scurvy scum aren't likely to have such things there
<daftykins> ;] nah i've seen it!
<diddledan> lol @ episode 2's closing music
<diddledan> s2
 * diddledan binging
<diddledan> cat.
<diddledan> that's all I'm saying
<diddledan> cat.
<daftykins> mrow.
<zmoylan-pi> *bark*
<diddledan> baa
<daftykins> diddledan: back in Wales? ;)
<daftykins> bed time \o
<diddledan> nah, out on a date
<daftykins> diddledan: these are not one and the same?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yay for home! :)
<zmoylan-pi> the pi is alive, i repeat the pi is alive :-)
<diddledan> mmm, pi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-22
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: are you mostly better now or have they let you out to convalesce at home because they want the bed?
<zmoylan-pi> they did want the bed. but as all they were giving me at the home was antibiotics 3 times a day and a dressing twice a week it was felt that could be done at home
<diddledan> aah ok
<zmoylan-pi> woke up for first time in 7 weeks without someone poking me awake, snoring beside me, or people making lots of noise
<zmoylan-pi> so a british water company is using divining rods to find leaks.... can you pay your bills with magic beans?
<diddledan> wait, what?
<diddledan> that's gotta be a hoax?
<zmoylan-pi> https://arstechnica.com/?p=1208843
<zmoylan-pi> was quite the thing in the 70s iirc
<diddledan> uber paid protection racket: https://www.grahamcluley.com/uber-hackers-paid-data-breach/
<diddledan> oh don't leave your gun!
<diddledan> when you're running from evil monsters, you want to keep your gun in hand
<zmoylan-pi> and put down my chainsaw?!
<diddledan> that damned chainsaw scared the moo out of me whenever I heard my friend had found the damned thing
<diddledan> I got poked with that thing a lot!
<zmoylan-pi> my bosses pc had soundcard... i could track his position by hearing my chainsaw approach... :-)
<diddledan> yeah, when I heard the chainsaw, that was my prompt to RUUUUUUNNNNNNN
<diddledan> the shift key got used extensively
<zmoylan-pi> i knew the maps backwards and used to run everywhere backwards.  it was like having a tail gunner... drove people nuts... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> but did you ever build up speed for 12 hours and then enter a parallel universe?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> I've not warped around the sun either
<diplo> Morning all, thoughts on this.. have a HP laptop, had issues but still booted 6-8 months ago, been sat with no power on for that time, now won't do anything, won't power on etc
<diplo> Any thoughts to a cause, can this be caused by a dead cmos battery maybe ?
<MooDoo> howdy al
<brobostigon> afternoon boys and girls.
<knightwork> hey peepz
<SuperMatt> suuuuppppp
<knightwork> hey SuperMatt
<knightwork> breaking in a remote machine I just installed yesterday
<knightwork> old 17" lenovo laptop with a busted chassis
<knightwork> still , the i5 16 gigs and some mate make it work just fine
<knightwork> shoved it in our basement, plugged it in and put teamviewer on it
<knightwork> Firewall guys none the wiser as to what i'm doing
<knightwork> now i need to find a way to use the command line via an https interface
<knightwork> then i can irc from my browser
<SuperMatt> 1) don't install servers in your company without people knowing it, and 2) look in to cockpit
<diplo> Why not ssh tunnel somewhere externally, my friend connect out on either 443 or 3306 ( no idea why the latter is open, they don't run mysql )
<SuperMatt> Or run ssh on port 443
<knightwork> i dont have it installed in the company , i have it installed at home
<knightwork> hmm.. thats not a bad idea , just run plain ssh on 443 and use portable putty to connect
<knightwork> keep it simple that way
<diplo> You can have multiple entries for Port in sshd_config
<SuperMatt> I didn't know that, and it's fun to know
<diplo> Yeah I didn't know it :) did it for this friend for his work :)
<MooDoo>  /quit
<knightwork> heyhey
<knightwork> mapped my ssh port to
<knightwork> 443
<knightwork> works like a charm :)
<diplo> \o/
 * knightwork has SSH acces at work :) Whieeeee
<knightwork> using putty right now but i'm gonna see if i can install mobaxterm
<knightwork> also a great terminal client
<diplo> I use puttyND on my work PC
<knightwork> What is puttynd ?
<knightwork> Looks like the non 80's version of putty
<knightwork> what i like about mobaxterm is that you have all these nice solarised themes
<diplo> yeah, tabbed putty basically
<diplo> ah I tried mobaxxterm before, didn't quite get on with it, not sure why
<diplo> Trying to be too much I guess ?
 * zmoylan-pi breaks open a pack of tunnock tea cakes as silently as possible...
 * brobostigon 's vulcan ears perk up to the sound of zmoylan-pi 
<zmoylan-pi> that would be the logical thing to do when you hear pack of tea cakes been opened...
<brobostigon> :D
<diddledan> did someone say tea cakes??
<zmoylan-pi> tunnock tea cakes, not knock offs...
 * brobostigon points
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> omg
 * diddledan engages puppy-dog eyes
 * diddledan fires-up the pout
 * zmoylan-pi pushes pack towards diddledan 
 * diddledan mews
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> danke
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes you need something better than hobnobs...
<diddledan> nom nom nom
<daftykins> hey folks \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> what a thing of heaven, https://www.thediceshoponline.com/dice/2080/Koplow-Red-Double-D20-Dice
<brobostigon> evening daftykins
<daftykins> i just spent Â£60 on amazon for 100m of satellite coax, 10 x F-type connectors and a 4 way aerial amplifier
<diddledan> 100 miles?!
<daftykins> i'll fit satellite dish and roof antenna cabling to my place :)
<zmoylan-pi> i had the d6 version but with only 1 internal dice.  they should all be different colours so that you could designate colours for rolls
<daftykins> yes!
<zmoylan-pi> that plus direct into the satellite... bring your big ladder...
<zmoylan-pi> *plugs
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: :)
<daftykins> nah mines on the kitchen flat roof - and i still have the scaffolding right now :)
<daftykins> even the cat climbs it
<daftykins> builders finished my bedroom insulation today \o/ they'll plaster the last of it now for the remainder of the week
<diddledan> don't forget to check for hidden cameras
<diddledan> you know what builders are like :-o
<diddledan> s/builders/the man/
<diddledan> home improvement is just an excuse to surreptitiously add listening equiment and cameras
<diddledan> </tin foil>
<zmoylan-pi> whistles nonchantly and slips last brick into the wall... imgur.com/OHiiexE
<leecowdrey> w
<diddledan> http://www.itprotoday.com/security/uber-hack-raises-huge-concerns-uk-data-regulator
<zmoylan-pi> but but, we paid the hackers to delete what they stole. was that wrong?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-23
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MooDoo> :)
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt are you well?
<SuperMatt> I am unwell, but otherwise I am well
<SuperMatt> you?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: got this cold?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: yeah, I have a cold which I got from the mother in law
<bigcalm> o/
<SuperMatt> \o
<bigcalm> Humm, life
<SuperMatt> Life. Don't talk to me about life.
<MooDoo> 42 mate
<zmoylan-pi> still have pain in diodes down left side?
<MooDoo> no one loves me, even my body is against me
 * zmoylan-pi hands MooDoo an electronic sausage...
<TwistedLucidity> Careful, this is a family channel
<zmoylan-pi> it's an electronic sausage with parental controls switched on...
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> you could tie it to a stick with a bit of sting and go all bofh but that is a sysadmin thing
<TwistedLucidity> Ah the new "Rudd-approved" e-Sausage.
<zmoylan-pi> we will have them on the beaches, we will have them on the fields... pretty much anywere a bbq is happening...
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i'm trying to stup a vm in kvm using gnome-boxes, just basic centos7 test vm, i want to ssh onto it, but i can't seem to reach the vm.
<NET||abuse> i'm trying to run it in both gnome-boxes and in virtmanager, the defautl setup is using NAT'd networking
<NET||abuse> it's ip is 10.0.2.15 but it seems i can't ssh to that.
<TwistedLucidity> NAT you say?
<NET||abuse> there doesn't seem to be any network controls defined to alter networking in gnome-boxes.
<TwistedLucidity> Have you set-up a port-forward to the VM?
<NET||abuse> where would i do that in gnome-boxes? :)
 * TwistedLucidity has never used gnome-boxes
<NET||abuse> yeh, i was hoping ti would simplify the experience, but it's not diong that very well for me.
<TwistedLucidity> For basic desktoppy stuff, VirtualBox is hard to beat
<TwistedLucidity> But that doesn't help you right now
<NET||abuse> hmm, seems the default iptables -l output has a mount of stuff in it..
<NET||abuse> why centos?? why
<TwistedLucidity> It's really just QEMU at the end of the day, isn't it?
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe hack the config by hand?
<NET||abuse> i can't copy paste out of the vm right now since it's only through the tty spice viewer thingy gnome-boxes uses.
<TwistedLucidity> I have a link, just giving it a quick glance to see if it helps....
<NET||abuse> sure thanks.
<NET||abuse> just gonna do sudo systemctl stop firewalld.service :)
<TwistedLucidity> It's not a lot of help - http://xkahn.zoned.net/blog/2013/11/26/networking-and-gnome-boxes/
<NET||abuse> nah,, ssh just hangs still    "debug1: Connecting to 10.0.2.15 [10.0.2.15] port 22."
<NET||abuse> hmm, i wonder how applicable this is since i'm on gnome 3.26
<NET||abuse> "Note: This article applies to GNOME 3.10 in Fedora 20. You no longer need these steps in GNOME 3.14 in Fedora 21"
<NET||abuse> i'm on ubuntu 17.10
<TwistedLucidity> quemu port redirection might be the ticket
<TwistedLucidity> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/QEMU/Networking
<TwistedLucidity> So, redirect host 2222 (or whatever) -> guest 22
<TwistedLucidity> And then "ssh -p 2222 guest-user@vm-host"
<TwistedLucidity> Must admit, I usually have my VMs bridged (mostly cuz I is lazy)
<NET||abuse> secondary host only nic would also be useful.
<TwistedLucidity> That should be easy enough
<TwistedLucidity> But I don't have a scooby how to do it in gnome-boxes
<diplo> Any ansible users here ?
 * TwistedLucidity misread that as "sensible"
<diplo> heh, defo none of those here, we're on IRC :)
<NET||abuse> ok, repeat from earlier, I have a gnome-boxes (qemu/kvm user sessino) vm running ceentos7, i want to ssh to it, but i can't figure out how the networking is being done
<NET||abuse> If i go into the kvm connection (QEMU/KVM User session) and try to create a Virtual Network in virt-manager... i get an error:
<NET||abuse> Error creating virtual network: error creating bridge interface virbr1: Operation not permitted
<NET||abuse> when i look in VirtualNetworks on the User session, there is none,
<NET||abuse> when i look at the virt-manager default connection (QEMU/KVM) there is a default networkk
<NET||abuse> Creating a new network in that connection works fine.
<NET||abuse> i've created an isolated network so i can try ssh'ing to a vm there, but how come i can't do the same in the User session connection?
<diddledan> when you're under a ddos attack, who you gonna call? I mean 999 doesn't sound like it would be appropriate
<diddledan> when you want the police to investigate I mean
<Laney> action fraud
<Laney> https://actionfraud.police.uk/report-a-fraud-including-online-crime
<diddledan> aha
<zmoylan-pi> maybe dial 255?
<diddledan> surely you mean 255.255.255.255?
<zmoylan-pi> good luck dialing .
<diddledan> well you could try 4294967296 instead
 * diddledan wanders over the road to get some sweeties
<daftykins> what's over the road!?
<daftykins> ugh at popping in a replacement HDMI cable to a clients TV setup today and getting even LESS success
<zmoylan-pi> a chicken giving sweets to vulnerable kids...
<daftykins> i was looking for the cat for ages tonight, sheesh - https://i.imgur.com/QdpFD2x.jpg
<daftykins> excuse the mess, still got building works on, i'm not a monster :)
<diddledan> she in the basket?
<daftykins> ja :D the little spot of white
<diddledan> good camo
<daftykins> but i only noticed when i sat down and she moved, i'd gone outside to call her and everything - as she hides from the builders at the moment
<zmoylan-pi> what you need a collar with bt and it responds to getting within 3 feet of you by emitting the star trek transporter sound... :-)
<diddledan> nah make it beep really loud every 30 minutes to scare the kitty witless :-p
<zmoylan-pi> oh yeah, antagonise the kitty... it's not like they haven't already plotted your demise...
<diddledan> it's getting our own back
<daftykins> they're totally not weaponised or know where you sleep
<diddledan> what is it with films having a post-credit sequence these days
<zmoylan-pi> not new, ferris bueller had one
<diddledan> deadpool does the ferris beuler post-credits justice :-p
<daftykins> it makes me nervous about leaving
<diddledan> yeah.
<zmoylan-pi> you don't hang around till they play the national anthem?
<diddledan> they still do that?
<zmoylan-pi> doubt it, haven't been to cinema since watchmen...
<daftykins> that's at the start, in Guernsey
<diddledan> guernsey has a national anthem?
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> jersey just uses abba's money, money, money... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> right, 40gb of media copied to phone... that should last next time i'm in hospital... :-P
<daftykins> let's hope it doesn't happen!
<zmoylan-pi> have updated my hospital checklist to add a crappy laptop... 3 phones kept me going but a proper laptop would have helped with boredom
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> please no netbooks
 * zmoylan-pi whistles nonchantly... 
<zmoylan-pi> i did hear a podcast on raspian x86 which i intend to try on my ancient hp to see if adds a little pep as xubuntu on it struggles...
<daftykins> perhaps you could pass the time with some LFS goodness
<zmoylan-pi> lfs?
<daftykins> linux from scratch
<zmoylan-pi> minix is all the go now, ask intel... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> it is the year of minix in your desktop... :-)
<daftykins> that's true, perhaps we could all be in the minority by running Minix beside Minix
<zmoylan-pi> minix all the way down...
<daftykins> a veritable pyramid :D
<zmoylan-pi> but built on solid foundations...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<Knightwise> heyo peepz
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals... a porridge morning by the feel of it
<Knightwise> morning zim ! $
<DJones> Afternoon all
<daftykins> \o
<Laney> quiet day eh
 * daftykins chews on corn and nods
<daftykins> yarp
<zleap> hi all
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-25
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<penguin42> if anyone needs a few keyboards, https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/a1_us_usb_keyboard_x50_uskybd2/version.asp  is kind of fun
<daftykins> haha wow
<penguin42> they also have 80 US kettle leads for Â£1  - I guess they've been importing US models and reboxing them
<daftykins> haha why would anyone want their horrid layout? :)
<penguin42> I mean importing US PCs which came with keyboards/kettle leads
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a fair few of those in late 80s... how do i get a pound sign?
<penguin42> alt-gr 3 sometimes does it - but I often dealt with imported US test machines
<penguin42> I also know quite a few people get US mac laptops because the UK keyboard layout is a bit weird
<zmoylan-pi> telling them hold down alt and type 156 on numeric keypad was easiest
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> i mean we could install a uk keyboard driver but it would make 10% of the rest of the symbols in wrong place... :-0
<zmoylan-pi> * :-)
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I also deal a lot with that type of thing; for example accessing a VM installed with US keyboards over a remote VNC like connection from my UK keyboard;  how many translation layers are there?
<zmoylan-pi> can't you make it work? yes, irÂ£100 for a new keyboard, irÂ£50 for delivery and installation...
<daftykins> when my lass was visiting from Texas she brought her work laptop and had to do a couple of days, i put a spare keyboard on for her and had to set up the UK layout on her machine ;D
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> tis cold out there...
<brobostigon> yep.
<daftykins> diddledan: help, my cat's got no head - https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/LpB8ur6b7PaTsic
<penguin42> how does it smell?
<diddledan> bleedin terrible
<daftykins> like cat food ;D
<daftykins> ah, bit more outdoor painting today to keep me as near to finished on the outside as possible
<daftykins> getting tough to squeeze it in between bouts of rain
<penguin42> yeh you couldn't have painted outdoors up here
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> did it ~mid-day then we had rain from 4pm, pretty fast drying that stuff
<daftykins> still got 4 windows to do on the outside!
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins: aren't the windows on the inside too? :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yep but i can paint those at my leisure!
<zmoylan-pi> sitting in a bean bag chair painting it with paintball gun while sipping chilled cider... too much leisure? :-D
