#juju-gui 2012-11-19
 * bac o/
 * gary_poster is in a fair amount of pain from a cracked tooth
<gary_poster> benji is out with a stomach virus
<gary_poster> but hi :-)
<bac> gary_poster: sorry to hear that
<gary_poster> thanks
<gary_poster> dentist just got back to me
<bac> oh, good
<gary_poster> appt half hour before our daily call so would like to try and reschedule
<gary_poster> will think about that and propose soon
<bac> this is probably a bad time to tell you i just entered a bunch of stuff into canonicaladmin.  :)
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> no, np.  I'll look now
<bac> if you're already suffering...
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> bac, I approved all of those.  Thanks for filing them.  I also asked Sarah how we should file Dec 28: she said National Holiday is fine.  I sent out an email about that to Launchpad and Juju-GUI
<bac> gary_poster: that pdf you found on the wiki said to do nothing for the 28th
<gary_poster> bac, oh
<gary_poster> oh well
<gary_poster> that's what she said :-P
<gary_poster> bac, don't feel the need to file it in then :-)
<bac> ok...
<gary_poster> bac, I see two cards in Active: code with title "charm panel spillage"
<gary_poster> can we eliminate one?
<bac> yes please.  kanban belched when i was creating the first and i thought it had failed
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> done
<gary_poster> tveronezi, I plan to start looking at make build in just another few minutes.
<tveronezi> gary_poster: tkx.
<Makyo> mattuk1972, ping
<mattuk1972> makyo -hi
<Makyo> mattuk1972, Got a sec to check on a few things in staging?
<mattuk1972> sure
<mattuk1972> makyo - what in particular?
<Makyo> I made some improvements to the 2px border on the charm panel wrt colors and the 1px missing at the bottom.  Additionally, clicking on the little box off to the side of the subordinate service will cause the relation lines to persist; is the indicator text turning blue/bold/italic a good indicator that it's been toggled, or should there be some other method of showing that?
<gary_poster> bac bcsaller1 frankban hazmat Makyo mattuk1972 teknico tveronezi hi.  I have to go to the dentist for some tooth pain.  I'm moving our call to one hour later (12PM Eastern, 1700 UTC)
<bac> RT
<Makyo> gary_poster, alright, thanks for the heads up.
<bcsaller1> sounds good
<frankban> gary_poster: sound good.
<gary_poster> thanks all.  talk to you soon
<bac> gary_poster: if you giggle during the meeting we'll know why
<tveronezi> gary_poster: ok... good luck. I hope it is nothing bad.
<teknico> gary_poster, ack, crush that frickin' tooOHWAIT
<gary_poster> :-)
<hazmat> sounds good
<hazmat> re time move.. sucks re tooth
<bac> hi mattuk1972
<mattuk1972> bac, hi
<mattuk1972> makyo, sent you some feedback - let me know if its ok
<Makyo> mattuk1972, should be fine.  Thanks!
<mattuk1972> makyo - cool ty
<teknico> *cough* apt-cache show node -> "The node program accepts TCP/IP and packet radio network connections..." :-D
<gary_poster> bac bcsaller1 frankban hazmat Makyo mattuk1972 teknico tveronezi call in 2
<gary_poster> mm, 1
<frankban> jovan2: I am in juju-ui, no rush
<jovan2> hi frankban, I'm trying to deploy a duplicate service so as to get a notification but it just sits there when I click Deployâ¦..
<jovan2> i.e. the charm panel just just sits there and nothing happens
<frankban> jovan2: the error is shown when you click "confirm" after "deploy"
<jovan2> frankban: nothing happens when I click Confirm
<frankban> jovan2: :-/ cache?
<jovan2> frank ban, I see it now
<jovan2> frankban I see it now
<frankban> cool jovan2, so, do we still need to hangout?
<jovan2> frankban: hmm, it makes me wonder, I think we need to define what appears as a notification versus what appears as feedback in the charm panel
<frankban> jovan2: yes I agree. We also need specs for notifications aggregation, e.g. when a lot of things go wrong together.
<jovan2> frankban: ok, I'll check what the situation is re multiple notifications with matt. The position looks fine, I just think the space between the first 2 lines - wraparound? - looks too big
<frankban> jovan2: yes, and this can be related to what you were saying before. maybe the title of the notification should be a one liner. however, feel free to mail me required css changes. for the other specs I guess we will have to create other cards in the kanban
<jovan2> frankban: i'll speak to matt chapman tomorrow and feed back then if that's ok.
<frankban> jovan2: cool, thanks
 * tveronezi reboot...
<gary_poster> tveronezi, reviewed.  Took me a while to play around with it, but was happy with it in the end.  bac, tveronezi, I suggest we combine "build" and "install" targets into "build"
<bac> gary_poster: sgtm
<bac> has anyone else had trouble getting juju with lxc to work after upgrading to local?  gary_poster do you know of any work-arounds we did for buildbot work that need to be undone?
<bac>  s/local/quantal/
<gary_poster> bac sorry was on call.  I have not tried
<gary_poster> tveronezi, bac, approved make build branch.  bac has approved already oso I marked as approved.  It is good to go.  Thanks!
<gary_poster> bac, I got this when trying to run autoreconf in the jitsu branch
<gary_poster> bcsaller, I think tveronezi is ready for your follow-up review to lp:~tveronezi/juju-gui/hotkeys when you get a chance.  You were not around when I had a chance for a call today; let's try to have a call tomorrowo morning
<gary_poster> good night all
#juju-gui 2012-11-20
<bac> gary_poster: ^^ you got *what* when running autoreconf?
<bac> hi frankban, teknico - have either of you had trouble getting lxc to start after upgrading to quantal?
<bac> i suspect some of our work-arounds in precise need to be undone.
<hazmat> bac, canonistack
<hazmat> there where some issues with quantal lxc, but they should be resolved afaik
<gary_poster> bac, remind me where to look about my autoreconf msg?  I just remember that when I first ran it, it failed and I had to install more packages to make it happy
<bac> hazmat: i don't understand your mention of canonistack
<gary_poster> I think he is suggesting that you test using canonistack
<hazmat> bac, just as an alternative to lxc 
<bac> gary_poster: you wrote this "bac, I got this when trying to run autoreconf in the jitsu branch
<bac> 17:52"
<bac> gary_poster:  with nothing else
<bac> hazmat: oh ok.  i'd like to get a local option on my machine, though.
<bac> gary_poster: perhaps it is no longer relevant if you solved your problem
<gary_poster> bac, oh sorry.  I think I meant to delete that.  Figured it out
<gary_poster> yeah, sorry
<gary_poster> bac, thanks for making card
<gary_poster> I thought it was going to be a self-review amusement in the evening
<gary_poster> but then delved into Makefile surgery
<benji> Do I understand correctly that the standup has been moved to 17:00 UTC?
<gary_poster> hey benji.  hope you are all better.  it is 1600 UTC.  (11 AM Eastern, UTC-5)
<gary_poster> benji, oh 
<gary_poster> it was moved to 1700 only yesterday
<gary_poster> or at least that was the intent
<gary_poster> lemme see
<benji> gotcha
<gary_poster> yeah only yesterday
<gary_poster> I had a dentist appt
<gary_poster> and more coming :-/
<gary_poster> hey hazmat, just sent you an email; lemme know how you want to handle it
<gary_poster> bac, are you most qualified to reply to gmb about his lp2kanban question?
<gary_poster> tveronezi, sorry, I was rushing off to bed and didn't authenticate so lbox has been patiently waiting for me to make my rietveld: https://codereview.appspot.com/6842072
<tveronezi> gary_poster: :O) np... tkx
<gary_poster> tveronezi, make server is broken on FF :-( (works in Chrome
<gary_poster> )
<gary_poster> Just noticed, sorry
<tveronezi> gary_poster: ok, I will check it. tkx.
<gary_poster> bac thanks for gmb reply.  favicon is working for me in chrome, not in FF (make debug is working in FF)
<bac> gary_poster: you did see my review on LP i hope
<gary_poster> bac yes thank you
<bac> gary_poster: i just get the 'sheet of paper' style favicon.  it is downloaded but not used
<bac> "it" being the juju one
<gary_poster> weird :-/
<hazmat> gary_poster, digesting..
<gary_poster> I've cleared out the cache multiple times
<hazmat> gary_poster, is there anything in the dropbox folder btw?
<gary_poster> nada hazmat
<teknico> bac, nope, no trouble starting lxc on quantal, and I'm not aware of any workarounds for precise
<bac> teknico: well there were several libvirt related work-arounds that were required and some other things lpsetup did to get nested containers working.
<teknico> bac, fwiw, I did not mean to imply that they did not exist, only that I did not know nor use them :-)
<tveronezi> gary_poster: it seems to be working fine for me in precise and quantal.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, which? favicon.ico or FF?
<tveronezi> FF
<gary_poster> tveronezi, once I have loaded a debug version, the server version works in FF.  Try http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/ ?
<gary_poster> That is using make server now
<gary_poster> Changed it last night
<gary_poster> (well, the equivalent: it uses make build and then starts up the simple python server)
<tveronezi> gary_poster: http://ubuntuone.com/2j2GNGiEz3KNt0ZOghByW5
<gary_poster> tveronezi, http://ubuntuone.com/0VKcU7JWBtvkwITgPuwxzh
<gary_poster> ...and in fact it is not there...
<tveronezi> gary_poster: hmmmmm... clean you cache with the "Everything" option.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, in FF?  There is no such thing I see in quantal
<gary_poster> tveronezi, ah! combo loads are killing me, but worked now
<tveronezi> gary_poster: ah... good. :O)
<gary_poster> bac ^^^ in FF clear cache and FF no longer hosed for me (irrespective of favicon.ico)
<gary_poster> tveronezi, for favicon I'm adding explicit favicon link, because that seems to make FF happy for some reason, and also making debug server include favicon
<gary_poster> will have update in a few
<tveronezi> ok.
<bac> hi mattuk1972, can you check uistage.jujucharms.com:8080 and look at the truncation and deploy button placement?  it all should be as we discussed yesterday.
<bac> mattuk1972: on a side note, are you ok with skipping this UX check step if we pre-clear screenshots with you before landing?
<mattuk1972> bad, sounds like a plan
<mattuk1972> bac damit auto correct
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> tveronezi, I just pushed changes to my branch (server.js and index.html).  What's easiest for you--do you want a new rietveld proposal patch or do you just want to see it in the MP (https://code.launchpad.net/~gary/juju-gui/favicon/+merge/135045 and click on "Changes added by revision 253" just before the "Add comment"?  Whatever is easier
<tveronezi> gary_poster: done... I have just two minor comments.
<gary_poster> cool looking tveronezi thx
<tveronezi> gary_poster: tkx.
<hazmat> is anyone else seeing a regression with removing or adding relations on the staging site
<hazmat> removing relations seems usable.. adding relations definitely not
<mattuk1972> bad, sorry i was dragged off to a meeting - looks good to me
<mattuk1972> bac, looks good to me
<bac> mattuk1972: thanks
<Makyo> hazmat, yes, I'm seeing it.  Let me poke around locally.
<Makyo> hazmat, not happening in the branch I'm working on.  Will update trunk and try.
<hazmat> Makyo, ack, thanks
<Makyo> hazmat, works with debug, does not work with server.  Something funky going on with minification.
<gary_poster> bac, you're bad, you're bad, you know it
<bac> er, huh?
 * gary_poster generally can only make historical cultural allusions.  That was to Michael Jackson, and was in reference to the autocorrect fun that matt is having
<bac> oh, yes, that
<bac> i thought your oxycodone was just kicking in
<gary_poster> lol
<Makyo> tveronezi, ping
<Makyo> tveronezi, nvm, will bring it up on the call.
 * Makyo squeezes breakfast in between now and then.
<tveronezi> Makyo... Sorry I didnt notice the ping.
<Makyo> tveronezi, it's okay.  Was just going to ask your opinion on minification.  Will catch you during/after call
<tveronezi> ok.
<gary_poster> bac bcsaller benji frankban hazmat jovan2 Makyo mattuk1972 teknico tveronezi call in 2. mattuk1972 and jovan2, since you are colocated and we are over the ten person limit for Google hangouts, if you both want to join it would be great if you could share a connection.
<gary_poster> bcsaller, hazmat starting without you
<bac> gary_poster: favicon still doesn't work for me from staging, even with safari
<Makyo> bcsaller1, can I get a quick yea/nay on https://codereview.appspot.com/6856067/diff/5001/test/test_environment_view.js ?
<Makyo> Just want to know if I'm headed in the right direction
<tveronezi> Makyo: I've found the problem... I will push a review for it in a minute.
<Makyo> tveronezi, thanks, will gladly take a look.
<Makyo> bcsaller, can I get a quick yea/nay on https://codereview.appspot.com/6856067/diff/5001/test/test_environment_view.js ? Just want to know if I'm headed in the right direction. (repost, just in case)
<jovan2> hi bcsaller: another question re config files: is there any need to be able to load more than one config file when selecting a charm to deploy?
<hazmat> jovan2, no
<tveronezi> Makyo: the review doc is ready... https://codereview.appspot.com/6856070/
<jovan2> hazmat, thanks, makes sense
 * hazmat lunches
<tveronezi> Makyo... I've found a problem with my tests. :/ ... hold on a bit.
<jovan2> bcsaller: can the config file be used to populate machine constraints or is it just for service settings?
<teknico> benji, frankban and I have addressed most comments to your charm test branch in our next branch, that will be proposed soon
<teknico> benji, so you may either land your branch as is, or even discard it entirely (it's included in our one), as you wish
<teknico> (jsyk, frankban is responsible for the latter idea ;-) )
<benji> teknico: that approach would seem to muddy the waters somewhat; I'd rather address the issues in the branch under review and land it
<frankban> benji: sounds good, I will propose our branch with yours as a pre-requisite
<benji> frankban: ok
<benji> teknico: how do you want to handle addressing the review comments for our branch?  Given that we are both in the middle of something and you are near EOD (I think) should I take up the review process as a solo effort or do you want to pair on it?
<teknico> benji, yes, I won't have time to pair on it today, feel free to work on it by yourself
<teknico> benji, or else we can work on it tomorrow
<Makyo> tveronezi, thanks for the branch, looks good and works well.
<tveronezi> Makyo... not the tests... :/
<tveronezi> I am trying to figure out whats going on...
<Makyo> tveronezi, Oh, d'oh, only ran debug clean server, my bad x.x
<teknico> anyway, gotta run now
<Makyo> Lunchtime.  Will be bring laptop in case.  Back after otherwise.
<benji> I think we need to revisit our object literal style; doing anything remotely complex (like nested literals that contain functions) gets insane quickly.
<gary_poster> bac, favicon is working on FF, Chrome and Safari for me, on Ubuntu and OS X, when I go to http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/
<gary_poster> (Though FF OS X doesn't seem to work otherwise :-/
<gary_poster> )
<bac> gary_poster: that is truly odd.  still doesn't work for me.  #itsallright
<gary_poster> :-) ok
<frankban> ah... finally, the charm is ready for review, have a nice evening all
<gary_poster> yay, frankban! :-)
<gary_poster> you have a good evening too
<frankban> thanks :-)
<tveronezi> Makyo: Done... tests fixed. It turns out we need to change how we load Y in our tests. The way we load it now, we don't give time to YUI to load the modules. I've changed a bit how we do it in order to load only the juju-ui first. YUI should be able to load the rest of the application. The code review is available here: https://codereview.appspot.com/6856070/
<tveronezi> gary_poster: It would be nice to have you as reviewer here https://codereview.appspot.com/6856070/ . Do you think you have time for it?
<gary_poster> tveronezi, can do.  Let me finish something up and then I'll dig in.  I should be able to start in about 20 minutes
<tveronezi> gary_poster: ok... tkx.
 * tveronezi brb
 * tveronezi back.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, I have a call in 23 minutes.  I have some concerns about your branch, but maybe we can resolve them quickly.  I'll ping you in 7 minutes and see  if you are available
<tveronezi> gary_poster: ok.
#juju-gui 2012-11-21
<hazmat> frankban, looking over the notifications.. why the Y.timer (gallery-timer) instead of just Y.later?
<hazmat> this is for the pause functionality when hovering?
<frankban> hazmat: for the doc, Y.later does not seem to have pause functionality
<frankban> hazmat: heh
<hazmat> frankban, no worries, just trying to keep track of our gallery modules
<frankban> hazmat: cool
 * frankban lunches
<benji> gary_poster: I just remembered to put in my sick day for Monday.
<gary_poster> ack
<bac> gary_poster: hey i'm now seeing the favicon in chromium but only on the tab, not in the address bar.  is that what you see?  #notreallyobsessed
<gary_poster> yes bac
<bac> oh
<bac> well itfm then
<bac> er, iwfm
<gary_poster> bac, that's the way other sites work for me on chrome too.
<gary_poster> benji, approved fwiw. :-)
<benji> now I can begin the psycological healing
<gary_poster> lol
 * tveronezi brb
 * tveronezi back
<teknico> benji, weird, I got the email from rietveld with your answers to reviews, but I don't see your changes on launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/charms/precise/juju-gui/second/+merge/134370
<benji> teknico: hmm, that is weird; let me look at the lbox log, maybe it pushed it to the wrong place
<benji> teknico: lp:~juju-gui/charms/precise/juju-gui/trunk looks fine to me
<teknico> benji, indeed, so it's just some miscommunication between rietveld and launchpad
<benji> teknico: oh, I know what it is: I did not push the review changes to the branch.  I never do in this new, lboxy world.  Since you are interested in seeing them, I will push them now.
<benji> pushed
<teknico> benji, oh, ok, thanks, I was just wondering whether something had gone haywire (sp?)
<teknico> benji, uhm, I understand pushing the latest revision from bzr, but what do you mean exactly by "pushing the review changes to the branch"? doesn't rietveld do that automatically?
<benji> teknico: not according to the log (I did an "lbox submit", "propose" probably does push to the branch)
<teknico> ah, lbox, right
 * hazmat runs an errand,  bbiab
<gary_poster> hery tveronezi .  Why does the old line 38/39 approach in https://codereview.appspot.com/6856070/diff/9001/test/test_app.js?column_width=80 not work anymore again?  Also, one test is failing reliably and others seem more fragile in your branch
<gary_poster> And in an urelated note, the tests are mutating the URL again 
<gary_poster> so that you end up on localhost:8084 instead of localhost:8084/test
<gary_poster> (And "Environmenton excellent provider" is at the top of the page)
<gary_poster> but all those last notes are from trunk as well
<gary_poster> tveronezi, failing test in your branch is in relation notifications: "should generate messages about one-party relations"
<gary_poster> Looks like it is a bad space removal: 
<gary_poster> expected 'Relation with endpoint1 (relation type "relation1") was created' to equal 'Relation with endpoint1 (relation type"relation1") was created'
<tveronezi> gary_poster: We cannot know the order of the tests. YUI loads the dependencies asynchronously.
<tveronezi> gary_poster: It wasnt failing yesterday. I will check it again.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, that's why we were using "done"
<tveronezi> "done" gives timeout sometimes.
<benji> it sounds like we need some URL assertions in whatever test that is
<gary_poster> so you mean if I revert your branch to the previous approach in test_app.js it will intermittently fail tveronezi ?
<gary_poster> (as an example)
<tveronezi> gary_poster: yeap.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, why is that different in your branch?  I have not seen that fragility in the trunk
<gary_poster> at least I don't think I have :-P
<tveronezi> gary_poster: In fact, we should change all the tests. We should wrap the tests with the "YUI().use" call in order to have the Y object in order to follow the YUI application principle discussed in previous branches.
<gary_poster> tveronezi, that's a reasonable argument.  I would expect that to go in a separate branch (and possibly after team discussion, since it is a pretty big change) rather than changing things piecemeal here. I guess you are saying that these particular tests were the most fragile, and they need to be changed in order for your branch to be successful.  I wish I understood why that these changes are necessary for this bran
<gary_poster> ch.  Do you know?
<tveronezi> gary_poster: I've figured out why the tests are broken. It is due to a last minute attempt to make "prep" and "lint" happy. I've removed a white space by mistake.
<tveronezi> gary_poster: I have a meeting now... I will be back in one hour.
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> tveronezi, approved, with reservations noted and a small suggestion.
<gary_poster> benji, teknico there is a "setup tests for Juju GUI charm" in Active review on kanban.  We can move that to done-done, right?
<benji> gary_poster: oh, yep; thanks
<gary_poster> cool, race you
<teknico> gary_poster, oh, right
<gary_poster> I dunno who won, but I did it :-)
<teknico> this seems useful as far as YUI optimizations are concerned, title notwithstanding: http://speakerdeck.com/yaypie/when-not-to-use-yui
<benji> I won: I didn't do anything and you moved it for me. ;)
<gary_poster> :-)
<teknico> then it's a tie!
<benji> teknico: I'm only part way through, but we should all look at that slide deck
<teknico> benji, yeah, it's quite startling
<benji> The part about YUI.Base using 2k per instance may be very important for us if we are representing thousands of units.
<hazmat> tveronezi, gary_poster the yui loader takes an option on the async loading
<gary_poster> hazmat, ah yes, that rings a bell
<hazmat> http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/classes/Loader.html 
<hazmat> async defaults to true
<gary_poster> the change he made is still a reasonable one though, I think.  But it would be better to talk about itbevore we go down that road
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban hazmat jovan2 Makyo teknico tveronezi call in 2
<teknico> benji, and it partly explains YUI's bad placement in speed comparisons like http://jsperf.com/js-mvc-frameworks-models/3
<benji> hazmat: I muted your keyboard. ;)
<hazmat> benji, danke ;-)
<hazmat> benji, re 2k per instance, that's why we're using the lazy their
<hazmat> there
 * benji buys hazmat some cherry brown switches for his keyboard for Christmas.
<benji> mmm, makes sense
<hazmat> benji, cherry red atm
<hazmat> hmm.. actually cherry blue.. the brown's would sound nice though.. stealth mode
<bac> but i just refactored the picker!  :(
<gary_poster> ben is on a bus with spotty wifi
<gary_poster> his review email disappeared for some reason
<gary_poster> but it is here:
<gary_poster> https://codereview.appspot.com/6858045/
<gary_poster> hazmat, ^^^
<hazmat> gary_poster, aha..
<hazmat> gary_poster, cool, thanks
<hazmat> gary_poster, odd about the lack of lp email
<hazmat> gary_poster, oh. its the wrong merge target
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban hazmat Makyo teknico tveronezi if you have some time, bcsaller would like reviews of https://codereview.appspot.com/6858045/ .  Two people can do the more thorough review, but he'd be interested in broader, bigger picture reviews too
<gary_poster> This is the environment view refactoring
<hazmat> actually pls hold off on that for a few..
<hazmat> the diff is bad
<gary_poster> it is supposed to show a pattern for writing the environment view and for writing environment view tests
<gary_poster> ok cool hazmat.  you contacting him or fixing it?
<hazmat> gary_poster, yeah.. on the phone
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> k
<hazmat> gary_poster, so he's go no network access atm.. i'm going to just resubmit with the correct parent
<gary_poster> cool thanks hazmat
<benji> The UI is very brittle regarding font sizes; upsizing the font by one unit (by pressing control +) breaks the layout.
<hazmat> benji, all these absolute sizes are badness..
<benji> yep
<hazmat> gotta think about ems and relatives
<gary_poster> hey Makyo, do bac and bcsaller know that you are waiting on their reply to move lp:~makyo/juju-gui/adding-subordinates ?
<Makyo> gary_poster, I just wanted bcsaller to check on the test, but I suppose anyone can okay that.  I tried pinging him yesterday, but flaky internet got the best of us.
<Makyo> That's https://codereview.appspot.com/6856067/diff/5001/test/test_environment_view.js if anyone would like to take a quick peek.
<Makyo> Dog's being a brat, going to take him for a quick walk and hope that helps.
<bac> Makyo: +1 on the test
<Makyo> bac, thanks.  If it's good with you, I'll land.
<bac> sure
 * Makyo -> doctor
<hazmat> the env refactor is at https://codereview.appspot.com/6842084/
<hazmat> had some troubles on the initial propose
<benji> hazmat: that is the branch that Ben wants many people to peruse, right?
<hazmat> benji, it is
<benji> cool, I'll do that
<hazmat> benji, awesome thanks..
<hazmat> i'm hoping he'll be around in the next hr to correct the mp himself.. but that at least gives a nice review diff
<hazmat> man tty.js is pretty sweet
<bac> ubuntu + mbp + bulging battery = very low untethered work time
 * gary_poster here with less tooth than before
<bac> yikes
 * bac dog walk.  bbiab.
 * benji recommits to flossing more often.
<benji> gary_poster: is bug 1078978 up for grabs?  It looks fun.
<_mup_> Bug #1078978: CSS is not minified in static deployment <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078978 >
<benji> hmm, it may be blocked on bug 1078910 though
<_mup_> Bug #1078910: development server is unnecessarily complicated and different from production delivery <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078910 >
<gary_poster> benji, I don't think one has to be solved before the other, but could be wrong
<benji> gary_poster: I would at least need to base my branch on the branch for 1078910, right?  Wait, maybe not... enough minimization is in the trunk that I can base it on that, right? 
<gary_poster> but yes, they are up for grabs.  benji, https://code.launchpad.net/~tveronezi/juju-gui/change-requires-param ought to be landed, or massaged and landed, before that.  If you could take that it would be helpful, and would set you up for the rest
<gary_poster> do you want to have a call?
<benji> gary_poster: sure
<gary_poster> I didn't have laughing guess, but I am numb, so my speech might be at least mildly amusing
<gary_poster> gas
<benji> I'll take what I can get.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> ok juju-ui looks empty
<Makyo> Ugh, sorry, awful traffic.  Back.
<gary_poster> have a great rest of week, weekend, and Thanksgiving where appropriate, everyone!
#juju-gui 2012-11-23
<hazmat> http://wonko.com/post/when-not-to-use-yui
#juju-gui 2013-11-18
<bac> hey benji, check it out http://staging.jujucharms.com/bundle/~jorge/mediawiki-simple/mediawiki-simple
<rick_h_> downloaded!
<rick_h_> frankban: ah, thanks for the bug update. Makes sense. it was a drive-by when I was testing out the instructions in the bundle deploy tab in the gui and didn't have juju-core installed yet
<frankban> rick_h_: np
<bac> hey lbox, would it be too much to retry my google credentials, especially at the end of a 10 minute process?
<bac> rick_h_: your merge destroyed my branch...  :(
<bac> you did warn me...
<gary_poster> hey bac, lp thinks you have a merge conflict in https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/juju-gui/send-bundle-id-to-deployer/+merge/195598
<gary_poster> oh you are talking about that :-P
<rick_h_> bac: :(
<rick_h_> bac: let me know if there's anything I can do to help 
<bac> rick_h_: thanks, but i don't think so.  just have to re-qa now.  no biggie.
<rick_h_> bac: cool
<gary_poster> frankban, doing review/qa
<frankban> gary_poster: thanks! guihelp: anyone available for another review of https://codereview.appspot.com/28250044 ? thanks
<rick_h_> frankban: sure thing, can peek at it in a few
<frankban> rick_h_: great thank you
<gary_poster> frankban, while qa-ing, idea: would be nice to have a quickstart option that exposes webbrowser options chrome, chromium, firefox, and (would require registering extra options in webbrowser module) chrome incognito and chromium incognito.  Would be convenient for qa plus for people who don't default to a browser we support
<frankban> gary_poster: +1
<gary_poster> frankban, also, this idempotent functionality is cool :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: :-) yes it makes quickstart more useful
<hatch> morning, how was everyones weekend?
<gary_poster> good 'nuff.  yours?
<hatch> decent until last night
<gary_poster> when?
<hatch> found a slow water leak at 12:00am
<hatch> had to fix it before sleeping
<hatch> lol
 * hatch tired
<gary_poster> ugh
<gary_poster> sorry
<hatch> yeah sheesh quick breaking my pipes!
<hatch> lol, you'd make a good Canadian ;)
<hatch> frankban: I put my slides for my talk up this weekend - sorry no screencast yet but coming soon http://fromanegg.com/post/67170468715/intro-to-go-from-a-javascript-developer-barcamp-yxe
<frankban> hatch: cool, will take a look. how was your talk?
<hatch> frankban: it went really well, lots of good questions about juju/go/js and there was about 100 people there, so fairly large crowd
<frankban> hatch: nice!
<hatch> yeah - and like always everyone is super impressed with Juju :D
<hatch> well, and the GUI since that's how I demo'd it haha
<frankban> hatch: oh! you also demoed the gui. cool, looking forward for watching the screencast
<hatch> frankban: heh yeah, it was just as an asside because I had some extra time but people were really impressed
<hatch> one of the questions "how do you configure bundles before deploying them?" cc/ gary_poster ;)
<gary_poster> hatch, heh :-)
<gary_poster> cool
<rick_h_> frankban: I'm not following why the bootstrap check can't be the results of juju status? It fails if the env doens't exist, isn't bootstrapped, and you get a known res if it is. You'll see machine 0. So it's a single positive check?
<hatch> rick_h_: before i forget, did you end up filing that bug about the guiserver returning the wrong info?
<rick_h_> frankban: also, side note. Can we get a terminal wipe/clear after the "Created new window"
<rick_h_> hatch: oh! thanks. It's on my notepad here. 
<rick_h_> frankban: time for a chat actually? some questions on stuff from friday 
<hatch> heh same here and I didn't see the email so I was curious :D
<frankban> rick_h_: status can fail for a lot of reasons. and even if we have a bootstrap node, the agent can be down. moreover I prefereed to just bootstrap in order to not waste extra-time for the very common case when the environment is not bootstrapped
<rick_h_> frankban: ok
<gary_poster> frankban, rick_h_, -1 on wipe/clear, but understand goal, I think.  Would be interesting in hearing other solutions
<gary_poster> but scrollback--including password for now!--too nice to have to wipe
<rick_h_> gary_poster: well, not wipe, but there's a terminal code I think that moves the line correctly so that you don't get $prompt $message
<gary_poster> +1 on that, right
 * rick_h_ remembers having to do something a while ago searches memory
<frankban> guihelp: I don't remember if the following is in the guiserver docs: when deploying a bundle, some info about what's going on can be found in two places: 1) https://<gui-server-address>/gui-server-info and 2) /var/log/upstart/guiserver.log
<bac> jujugui: review, please, old skool style (lbox hates me this morning): https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/juju-gui/send-bundle-id-to-deployer/+merge/195598
<hatch> bac on it
<hatch> bac: is this the 4XX error you're seeing again?
<gary_poster> frankban, ack.  Could you add to...maybe both quickstart and charm docs?  Somewhere. :-)
<bac> hatch: i just went through the QA for the second time today.  do it if you want or pass, up to you.  (it takes a while)
<bac> hatch: yeah, 404 failure on tests from lbox
<bac> hatch: plus dumb google auth error.  just decided to skip it this time.
<hatch> just make sure someone does it :)
<frankban> gary_poster: sure
<rick_h_> frankban: let me know when you get a few min to chat on the bug/issue from friday
<frankban> rick_h_: now is ok
<hatch> these diffs are sure hard to read
 * hatch spoiled
<rick_h_> frankban: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpimpnpmmm1v3304ph2cjoa8?hl=en
<hatch> bac: so the bundle object data is always required but the id is optional - can't we pull the id from the bundle data then?
<bac> no
<bac> not in the yaml
<hatch> so if someone drags the yaml in, we pass the id in?
<hatch> I don't think that we do
<hatch> so in that case it would be undefined anyways
<gary_poster> Rhetorical question: Why does it seem slower to load the GUI from jujucharms.com than from a Juju deployment running the real tool? :-/
<hatch> 3 layers of firewalls
<hatch> oh sorry, Rhetorical
<hatch> lol
<gary_poster> yeah, was thnking something along those lines :-/
<gary_poster> the firewalls, that is ;-)
<rick_h_> gary_poster: london 
<rick_h_> gary_poster: jujucharms.com crosses the ocean, ec2 is a EST DC
<gary_poster> ah, yeah, maybe so
<gary_poster> I mean, that's true :-)
<rick_h_> plus the three fireealls :)
<gary_poster> but maybe that's the explanation
<gary_poster> yeah
<rick_h_> err firewalls
<rick_h_> yea, there are times I think hosting all our stuff out of a central London location hurts us from a performance perspective. In my US is the center of the world view of things 
<hatch> hehe
<gary_poster> :-)
<hatch> http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx
<hatch> looks like they come with touch screen, haswell, ubuntu
<hatch> credit...card....burning....
<rick_h_> no trackpoint :(
<hatch> you're clingin to the past....man....no need for a trackpoint when you have touchscreen.....man
<rick_h_> ugh, I don't believe in touchscreen laptops
<hatch> I didn't either
<rick_h_> already have a fit when my wife points at things and touches it on accident
<hatch> haha
<gary_poster> ipad + keyboard = great experience
<hatch> lying in bed browsing the internet a touchscreen would be nice
<rick_h_> I've got my N10 + keyboard and it's cool for some things, but I get annoyed at touching the screen. I'm too terminal/vim/keyboard all the things! I guess
<rick_h_> every time to move my hands off the keyboard I feel like someone's going to bring a rule down on my hand :)
<rick_h_> tablet for that
<hatch> mouse --move --left 10 --click
<rick_h_> (the bed browsing) I do <3 the N10 for a lot of that casual stuff
<bac> hatch: missed your question.  yes, if the yaml is deployed from a local file then the bundle has no ID and it is not credited in charmworld.
<hatch> bac: right, so we can 'always' parse the id out of the object, if no id, then no problem
<hatch> so you don't need to deal with passing it in externally
<bac> hatch: what line are you refering to?
<hatch> well it could be implemented in env.bundleImport()
<rick_h_> frankban: ok, submitted under https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/juju-gui
<hatch> then you wouldn't need all of the extra data flying around
<hatch> (plz correct me if I just
<hatch> "don't get it")
<hatch> :)
<bac> hatch: first, i don't know what env.bundleImport is.
<hatch> got a second for a quick call?
<rick_h_> hatch: it's moved remember
<bac> sure
<hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpi0qnq012rqp4mojqnq42kg?hl=en
<frankban> rick_h_: thanks, so this means that it's an error only when you deploy that bundle, right? It is not the interaction between two subsequent deployments. What happen if you deploy a working bundle aftre a failing one?
<rick_h_> frankban: if I deployed the bundle on it's own it works fine
<rick_h_> frankban: so it only died out when I first had the failing one
<gary_poster> frankban, LGTM with small and trivials; QA good, though I added a second note about something that didn't go as your QA instructions prescribed.
<frankban> gary_poster: thanks, re your QA note, in the previous step I added "juju deploy -e ec2 juju-gui" after the service removal...
<gary_poster> frankban, oh, sorry!
<frankban> gary_poster: np, I did that, it works ;-)
<gary_poster> frankban, cool :-)
<gary_poster> bac, you don't need another review/qa, right?
<bac> no
<gary_poster> k
<gary_poster> good, 'cause I wasn't going to give one. ;-P
<frankban> gary_poster: great stuff in you review, thanks! only one question: how should the core bug be? "please don't change your error message"? a --format for an error seems weird to me, but maybe I am wrong
<frankban> gary_poster: maybe "expose a safe way to know if an env is bootstrapped"
<frankban> rick_h_: so discourse does not fail unless another bundle failed before?
<frankban> rick_h_: or discourse bundle intermittently fails, and when it does, the error is empty?
<gary_poster> frankban, heh.  Minimally, we can describe the problem to them and ask for ideas. As an idea, though, a --format that affects both normal output and error output seems reasonable to me FWIW--you are asking for a machine-readable response, whatever the response is.  What you suggested is similar to my "minimally" bit; if you go that way, I would s/safe/safe, machine-readable/ or something
<rick_h_> frankban: jenkins does not get the failure status unless discourse was run before hand and failed
<frankban> gary_poster: ack
<frankban> rick_h_: ack, I was looking the wrong bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/juju-gui/+bug/1252295
<_mup_> Bug #1252295: guiserver bundle deployment error is empty <juju-gui (Juju Charms Collection):Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252295>
<rick_h_> frankban: ah ok. Yea filed those as two parts. One is the error being empty which can happen on its own. 
<rick_h_> frankban: the second was the first failure making the second one register as failed
<frankban> gary_poster: rethe already_bootstrapped argument. perhaps I can make deploy just take a "to" argument and make the check in "run"
<frankban> rick_h_: cool thanks
 * gary_poster looking/thinking
<frankban> gary_poster: sorry, s/already_bootstrapped/env_type
<gary_poster> ah!
<frankban> gary_poster: well, maybe it's not a great idea. and +1 on s/already_bootstrapped/check_preexisting or similar
<gary_poster> frankban, I like the idea of replacing  env_type with to.  Keeps the local function simpler, and the arguments more self-describing
<frankban> gary_poster: cool, ok
<gary_poster> frankban, fwiw, when you said already_bootstrapped at first, I was trying to make it work, :-) and thought you meant something that seems maybe interesting.
<gary_poster> you would split up deploy service and deploy unit into two functions
<gary_poster> and run would get the status and decide what to do (perhaps from a third function)
<gary_poster> frankban, shrug, might make code simpler to read?  it would keep the deploy functions only about deploying
<gary_poster> which might be nice
<gary_poster> just an idea from trying to make sense of a miscommunication, so feel free to ignore :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: hum... it seems interesting, but then you have to pass service_data and unit_data, or put the logic in run... something to investigate in a future branch?
<gary_poster> frankban, +1, or not :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: cool ok :-)
<bac> hatch: finally!  https://codereview.appspot.com/28440043
<hatch> hah yay!
<hatch> bac: lgtm'd with a comment as we discussed
<frankban> gary_poster: filed bug 1252322
<_mup_> Bug #1252322: Expose a safe/machine readable way to check if an environment is already bootstrapped <juju-core:New> <juju-quickstart:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252322>
<gary_poster> cool frankban thanks
<rick_h_> frankban: LGTM'd and qa ok. Thanks for the update! This should allow me to use it on lxc now as long as I pre-bootstrap yay
<frankban> rick_h_: not yet ;-) we still have an explicit check for local providers (and the bits in deploy is actually a yagni). but I planned lxc support to be my next quickstart card
<rick_h_> frankban: ah right, but the deploy a bundle doesn't worry about the local provider. That's mainly what I was try to get at
 * rick_h_ looks again, maybe I'm not in my lxc happy place 
<Makyo> jujugui call in 10
<hatch> hey Makyo did you ever find out a good set of apps for doing a screencast on Ubuntu?
<Makyo> RecordMyDesktop + Audacity + kdenlive
<Makyo> Though I'm still working on finding the best transcoding rate for kdenlive to get rid of artifacting.
<Makyo> RMD records at 15fps which kdenlive doesn't like.
<hatch> hmm - I wonder if I can use http://www.telestream.net/screenflow/overview.htm in OSX but have it cast the Ubuntu vm
<Makyo> This happened last time you asked, too :)
<hatch> yeah I'm indecisive because it's a $100 gamble haha
<hatch> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/04/lightworks-enter-public-beta this was also just released
<gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
<benji> jujugui: well, I guess that was the wrong window to close
<hatch> lol
<gary_poster> lol
<rick_h_> benji: drops the mic and leave "I'm outta here"
<benji> heh
<benji> as a live sound guy, I will kill anyone that drops a mic on purpose
<rick_h_> just know who to give that fisher price mic to 
<benji> SM58s are indestructable
<rick_h_> gary_poster: http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/18/surveymonkey-enterprise/ is interesting fyi
<gary_poster> rick_h_, huh, cool, thanks.  will forward to Luca and Charline
<hatch> hey look at that I got the YUI is not defined error
<hatch> first time I think
<hatch> well at least now I know what the issue is
<hatch> jujucharms.com is not serving the all-yui.js file at all
<hatch> it 404'd
<gary_poster> hatch, I get it
<hatch> oh really? yours still downloads -and- throws the error?
<luca__> gary_poster: do you have a hangout?
<gary_poster> luca__, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Z2FyeS5wb3N0ZXJAY2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbQ.nm61lc93dnv0a4s18q2tt3650c
<gary_poster> hatch, error is intermittent
<hatch> yeah it's working again - I'm just saying that the issue is not related to anything clientside - the server is closing the connection to all-yui.js
<hatch> dumb question but what is #!/bin/bash called ? I'm trying to figure out if sublime can enable syntax highlighting based on it
<rick_h_> shebang
 * hatch turns on safesearch
 * hatch searches for shebang
<hatch> lol
<rick_h_> http://www.sublimetext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14656
<rick_h_> hmm, https://sublimetext.userecho.com/topic/20806-syntax-highlight-based-off-shebang-lines/ says it should be doing it 3yrs ago
<hatch> heh yeah - it definitely doesn't
<hatch> just configuring the applysyntax plugin
<hatch> oh that might have been for sublimetext 1
<frankban> gary_poster: re charm URL check (if a pre-existing service is found in the env): is it ok for you to make another card?
<gary_poster> frankban, on call but ok.  you do it? :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: sure :-)
<gary_poster> thx
<hatch> blarg
<hatch> is there a juju hook api somewhere?
<rick_h_> hatch: heh, it was about 10 sessions at the last sprint
<rick_h_> nick is getting the first api for a hook written up currently :)
<hatch> this just reading charms for the various commands is driving me nuts
<rick_h_> yea, those meetings were painful imo. I like clear documented standards, but a large group of people want the flexibility/don't hold it back stuff in place now
<hatch> I asked in #juju hoping that someone has something
<rick_h_> good luck :)
<hatch> hah
<hatch> actually....
<hatch> I do have 1 q you may be able to help me out with....time for a quick hangout?
<rick_h_> sure
<hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/72cpj792njti59826rubg1v7ls?hl=en
<hatch> oh wait
<hatch> cancel that
<hatch> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpilhst0i5ii6btp3crpe6e4?hl=en
<hatch> that one
<frankban> hazmat: ping
<hazmat> frankban, pong.. in meetings all day fwiw. watsup?
<frankban> hazmat: ok, feel free to read this later. re unit placement in machine: in the code path followed when the GuiEnvironment is used, an int value is never converted to a string. Either the Deployment object or the GuiEnvironment itself can make that conversion. What do you prefer? If you want to avoid that conversion to be done in a lower layer (the Deployment class) I can quickly set up a branch which does it in t
<frankban> he GuiEnvironment.
<hazmat> frankban, oh... yeah.. this is the issue from friday
<frankban> hazmat: yes
<hazmat> frankban, i think service or deployment is the most appropriate
<hazmat> frankban, the service already has get unit_placement property that would be a good spot for the conversion and a test
<Makyo> http://eleks.github.io/js2js/
<frankban> hazmat: sounds good, do you want me to work on this?
<hazmat> frankban, if you need it the next day, that's probably best, else i can cover it.
<hazmat> er. within the next day
<frankban> hazmat: it's not that urgent, I believe end of this week can be ok
<hazmat> frankban, cool
<frankban> hazmat: great thank you
<frankban> guihelp: I need 1 quick review for a documentation only branch: https://codereview.appspot.com/28490043
<frankban> thank you
<Makyo> frankban,  on it
<hatch> sure
<frankban> Makyo: thanks
<hatch> oh darn
<bac> doh
<hatch> ok
<hatch> :)
<hatch> ughhhh
<hatch> when requestin a boolean value from `config-get` it returns 'False' which is not a boolean value according to bash
<hatch> benji: you kickin around?
<benji> hatch: yes... I think
<hatch> benji: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hatch/charms/precise/failtester/trunk/view/head:/hooks/handler do I have to quote the $hook and $fail_* to get them to compare as strings?
 * benji looks
<hatch> line 51: False: command not found
<hatch> is the error I'm getting
<hatch> which means that the $fail_start command is trying to execute as "False" or something
<benji> hatch: you can use double brackets and not have to quote
<hatch> oh ok so change them all to [[ ]]
<hatch> thanks, I didn't know that
<hatch> I wish that juju returned real boolean values
<hatch> for bash
<hatch> True/False I think are -only- booleans in Go
<benji> right, double all the square brackets and you should be good to go
<benji> (double brackets are a bash extension that is much saner than the Posix single brackets)
<hatch> I really need to study bash more
<hatch> the tutorials are.....thick
<hatch> :)
<hatch> here we go, 4th time is the charm, then this charm is done
<hatch> charm
<hatch> :)
<hatch> sweet works
<hatch> thanks
<hatch> note to self....dont try and create a bunch of lxc's at once
<rick_h_> hatch: :)
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, I think my limit on my desktop is around 20
<rick_h_> over that and things lock up for a long while, IO bound 
<hatch> yeah the box has raid 1 too so it's really bound
<hatch> heh
<hatch> Dart 1.0 was released
 * hatch starts to port the GUI
<gary_poster> heh
<rick_h_> hatch: come on https://twitter.com/mitsuhiko/status/401096744198758400
<hatch> see he has the right idea
<rick_h_> surely you're ready to take that port and go to typescript
<hatch> I write dart in typescript
<rick_h_> then we can check out rust and see if it offers anything :P
<hatch> lol
<hatch> I don't know who this guy is but I hope that his comment is joking
<rick_h_> Armin?
<hatch> yeah
<rick_h_> he's famous python dude 
<rick_h_> though I'm not sure how much python he does these days
<hatch> I just hope he realizes that Dart may compile down to js like typescript but it is also it's own language
<rick_h_> yes, I'm pretty sure he's aware
<hatch> you never know on these internets...you never know
<hatch> have I mentioned how much I love the gui?
 * hatch frames a picture of it on his desk
<hatch> I just wish I could deploy a specific url from the GUI
<bac> thanks for the note bcsaller
<bcsaller> :)
 * hatch shakes juju "let me deploy from launchpad"
<hatch> jcastro: is discourse.ubuntu.com supposed to be mobile only css?
<hatch> looks fixed now :)
 * hatch is taking lunch
 * gary_poster switches computers, because he needs to sit outside, because it is gorgeous
<hatch> rick_h_: doesn't charmworld ingest every 15?
<rick_h_> hatch: rgr
<hatch> hmm
<rick_h_> hatch: 00 15 30 45
<hatch> https://localhost:1111/sidebar/search/~hatch/precise/failtester-3/?text=failtester is on v3
<rick_h_> hatch: then it takes a few min to process
<hatch> and v5 was pushed like an hour ago
<rick_h_> hatch: well, it's meant to fail right? does it pass proof?
<hatch> oh lol
<hatch> actually it should...
<rick_h_> well try it out, if it fails proof then it won't ingest
<hatch> can I just deploy from launchpad somehow?
<rick_h_> hatch: sure, bzr branch .... && juju deploy --local ....
<hatch> ok so no :D
<rick_h_> :)
<hatch> kind of a crazy limitation
<rick_h_> meh, why? it's one extra command to pull it down local
<rick_h_> and you get safety/checks and such if you use the store based stuff, which we want to encourage charm authors to get their charm into and users to look for latest/best charms
<rick_h_> seems kind of natural to me
<hatch> right, but it's an aritificial limitation
<hatch> every other package manager allows you to point to any location
<rick_h_> yep, for the good of the users
<rick_h_> apt-get install random_url ?
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> mac store install random_url ?
<hatch> npm install <url> go get <url>
<rick_h_> that's a library, not a software package 
<rick_h_> that's for developers and in some languages requires extra flags and such
<rick_h_> pip install http:// fails
<rick_h_> you have to -e git@....
<hatch> charm proof is broken
<hatch> darn
<rick_h_> since by default it looks for things that it knows are buildalbe in the pypi 'store'
<rick_h_> how is charm proof broken?
<hatch> it's forcing me to add a revision file....which is deprecated
<rick_h_> update it recently? 
<hatch> just installed it
<hatch> heh
<rick_h_> hmm, I thought it was a warning?
<rick_h_> it's still darn handy because there's a -u flag on juju deploy that'll auto increment the version and help force an update over the cache
<hatch> W: No icon.svg file.
<hatch> E: no copyright file
<hatch> E: revision file in root of charm is required
<rick_h_> ah, cool
<hatch> so the docs or proof is wrong
<hatch> wonder who would know which is which?
<rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm-tools then I guess. Get it a warning. 
<rick_h_> it is useful in charm dev ime until they add a no-cache or something flag
<hatch> hmm this is interesting
<hatch> I've never actually 'cared' while pushing a charm
<rick_h_> no, proof is run in charmworld during ingest
<rick_h_> proof is up to you. You don't need to get your charm in charmworld
<rick_h_> it's just encouraged
<hatch> well I do if I want to deploy it without pulling it down
<rick_h_> and a bzr push doesn't run proof since you just installed it
<rick_h_> sure, but you can push it, and pull it down on another computer and use it
<rick_h_> and share with others, etc
<hatch> yeah - I'm not sure that's a good experience
<rick_h_> right, it sucks...so that you'll proof and fix things to get the good experience
<hatch> maybe it's because the documentation isn't explicit
<rick_h_> I know the publishing your charm docs talk about proof/etc
<hatch> like maybe on the 'deploying charms' page if it said "this is why you can't deploy from launchpad, here is what you should do"
<hatch> right now it says <repository>:<series><service>
<hatch> which kind of implies that you CAN use other repositories
<rick_h_> #4 https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-store.html
<rick_h_> so I think the juju-core store can point at different repositories
<rick_h_> charmworld only looks at the official juju-core store off LP
<rick_h_> and that's just an artifact of 'technically you can do' vs 'what you should be doing'
<hatch> yeah I think the docs maybe need to be a little bit more explicit maybe
<hatch> honestly I have no idea how up to v3 got into charmworld
<hatch> it's never had a revision or copyright file haha
<rick_h_> well I wonder if there's something else there then. Maybe we ignore those errors in charmworld? 
<hatch> is there any way I can get a report of the charmworld ingest?
<hatch> just to see what the issue is?
<rick_h_> not really :/ http://manage.jujucharms.com/~hatch/precise/failtester
<rick_h_> shows the lint status, but if it pulled in 3 revs it must ignore those errors
<rick_h_> hmm, and rev 4 diff seems innocent enough
<hatch> and the lint check results are different than my local lint check results heh
<rick_h_> hatch: ah, it's not in the juju-core store https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:~hatch/precise/failtester
<hatch> ok I don't know what you mean
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, that'll probably be a revision thing. mjc will only update proof when told to manually
<hatch> ohh
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, basically it's not your fault and not charmworld's fault. It's in juju-core's hands
<hatch> so.....should I file a bug somewhere?
<hatch> I guess I don't really understand the problem
<rick_h_> yea, it's the black hole. We've hit issues here before but I've not been sure either. 
<rick_h_> last time hazmat did some poking at things for us. There was some revision issue that caused grief. I don't recall the details 100%
<hatch> so do you think that adding the revision file should fix it?
<rick_h_> hazmat: is there someone we can bug about the core-store not pulling in a revision for a charm? 
<rick_h_> hatch: only incidentilly as it'll add a new revision that might be picked up by the store
<hatch> ahh - darn I hate black boxes
<rick_h_> hatch: so basically charmworld checks that the store knows about your revision https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:~hatch/precise/failtester 
<rick_h_> hatch: if it doesn't we don't ingest it since you can't deploy it
<hatch> ahh ok that makes sense
<rick_h_> hatch: juju deploy hits this store, not charmworld to do the actual deploy work
<hazmat> rick_h_, use juju publish the charm is probably broken
<hazmat> publish will give some feedback, alternatively its a really simple go program to walk through the charm validation/errors from core
<rick_h_> hazmat: rgr hatch ^^
<hatch> cool I'll try that
<rick_h_> hazmat: cool, thanks
<hatch> ohh
<hatch> apparently you can't have a requires and provides with the same name
<hatch> guess I should have assumed that
<hatch> thanks hazmat rick_h_
<hatch> rick_h_: your CHC meetups are they actually in coffeeshops?
<rick_h_> hatch: yes
<hatch> they don't seem to mind?
<hatch> or are there no 'presentations' ?
<rick_h_> no, the last place had a meeting room in the back and we rented it out each week
<hatch> oh that's cool
<rick_h_> no, we've done a couple of 'let's check out YUIConf videos on the wall'
<rick_h_> but it's mostly dedicated time to hack on something you care about of your own choice each week
<hatch> cool - we have had a few small dev meetups but the issue is always the location
<rick_h_> no matter how busy the week gets, I've got 2hrs of wed night to hack on my bookmark app, or read that article I was meaning to get to, or to vent, etc
<rick_h_> yea, our shop got bought by another coffee chain and they opened up the room and then changed closing time from 10pm to 8pm
<rick_h_> so I had to go hunting for a new coffee shop to hit up this weekend
<hatch> oh darn
<rick_h_> visited a couple of places
<bac> jujugui: just deployed a bundle.  used the gui to destroy both services.  both removed from canvas.  but 'juju status' shows mysql still hanging around.  known issue?
<bac> oh, it is marked 'dying' and has been for a while.
<hatch> yeah it takes a long time to die sometimes
<hatch> at least in my experience
<hatch> what is 'a while' ?
<hatch> ive seen it take 30mins sometimes :/
<bac> gah, really?
<bac> it's only been 10-15 minutes.  i just picked another test bundle with no overlapping services
<rick_h_> bac: yea, done that before as well
<rick_h_> jenkins is a good alt
<hatch> yay updated
<hatch> revno not matching the bzr val is odd though :)
<hatch> man I'd really love to know why discourse.ubuntu.com keeps switching to mobile styling
<hatch> and FINALLY I have finished testing my charm
<hatch> boy that takes a long time
<hatch> good thing I could do other stuff hah
<hatch> I'll be writing up an email to the juju mailing list but here it is if anyone wants to use it until then https://jujucharms.com/fullscreen/search/~hatch/precise/failtester-5/?text=failtester
<bac> jujugui (i.e. hatch): quickstart review? https://codereview.appspot.com/28520044/  no rush, i'm sure frankban will get to it in his morning.
<Makyo> bac, on it.
<bac> oh, hi, Makyo.  forgot you were still around.
<Makyo> Yeah, just got back from dogwlak.
<Makyo> Or however you spell it.
<Makyo> Sun sets so early these days :/
<bac> that's how i always spell it
#juju-gui 2013-11-19
<hatch> is there a juju dev mailing list?
<hatch> *yawn*
<bac> morning frankban.  i've gotten one review on my quickstart branch but thought you might be interested: https://codereview.appspot.com/28520044/
<frankban> bac: morning, already reviewed
<bac> frankban: oh, thanks.  i didn't see the email
<frankban> np\
<bac> frankban: thanks for the QA and tips on how to streamline quickstart commands.  landing now.
<bac> frankban: i didn't know you could launch an environment without deploying a bundle.
<frankban> bac: yeah the bundle parameter is optional
<rick_h_> jujugui battling a migraine this morning. Taking meds and going into blackout mode. Will check in later. 
<bac> rick_h_: oh, sorry.  i didn't know you suffered from those.  i luckily don't but i know how tough they are.
<gary_poster> sorry rick_h_.  feel better.
<gary_poster> thanks for great review frankban.  following up on both suggestions and then will land.
<frankban> gary_poster: cool thanks
<benji> bac: this looks like something you might be able to tell me more about: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6442849/
<bac> benji: is that failing in trunk too?
<benji> bac: I'm checking now.  I don't see how my branches changes could make it fail, so I though I'd ask if it was a known issue.
<bac> benji: i'm running against trunk.  haven't seen it before
<benji> hrm, might be me then
<hatch> morning all
<bac> benji: i don't see any failures in trunk
<benji> bac: I just got the failure in trunk
<bac> huh
<bac> benji: if you run that test in isolation does it fail every time?
<benji> bac: running the test file failes every time, I'll try just the test
<frankban> guihelp: in the last GUI trunk, trying to deploy a bundle dragging a file gives me: Uncaught TypeError: Object #<Object> has no method 'sendToDeployer' 
<benji> bac: yep, the test run by itself fails
<bac> benji: dunno.  works here.  worked in CI.  not sure how to help.
<benji> bac: I'll see if I can run it down.
<hatch> frankban: that sounds like rick_h_ may have missed a method name when he refactored that bundle import code
<frankban> hatch: yeah, sendToDeployer does not appear elsewhere in the code
<hatch> frankban: see if you rename that method call to be 'deployBundleFiles'
<hatch> to match what I believe is the new method name in app/assets/javascripts/bundle-import-helpers.js
<frankban> hatch: the signature is the same, trying
<frankban> hatch: it worked
<hatch> great, now we gota figure out how to test that :)
<hatch> or pass it off to rick :P
<frankban> gary_poster: I am investigating the guiserver problems reported by rick: 1) error without messages: the dpeloyer can exit with "raise ErrorExit()". quick fix: we can check if the message exists and return something like "no further details can be provided". 2) subsequent deployments fail with no error messages: see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-deployers/juju-deployer/trunk/view/head:/deployer/env/go.py#L213 i.e. if a unit is in an error state, th
<frankban> e deployer refuses to proceed. No quick fixes for this one :-/
<gary_poster> frankban, ack on #1.  #2, thinking.
<hatch> when a relation fails in juju-core it returns a relation-id which is simply a single digit and a 'remote-unit' which is -always- the other services unit/0 .
<hatch> 1) should we be keeping a mapping of these core->gui relation id's?
<gary_poster> frankban, #2 is for *any* units, right?  Our code could certainly do the same check, yeah?
<hatch> 2) is cores representation of the 'remote-unit' incorrect? and should instead mention remote-service?
<gary_poster> hatch, I don't have confident answers on those.  #1: it sounds like a nice to have at the moment, since it currently doesn't give us any new information, right?  But eventually I suspect this will not always be unit/0.  Did you check the juju core code that it is always unit/0?  even in less usual cases like, say peer relations?  It sounds like something for a GUI bug but not immediate action.  #2: I bet that eventu
<gary_poster> ally being able to specify a unit will come in handy, even if it does not now.  We can certainly trivially deduce the service from the unit.  You probably will need to ask core about it, like maybe Wm, because I doubt any of us know.
<frankban> gary_poster: it surely can, and I was also thinking about adding a step in the validate method. on the other hand it seems more a deployer bug. it's not transactional, it starts deploying the service and the eventually exit, e.g. before adding relations etc...
<gary_poster> brb sorry
<frankban> gary_poster: and I am not sure about the reason to avoid deploying a bundle if a pre-existing unit is in an error state...
<hatch> gary_poster: ok sounds good - I am just finishing up the simulator upgrades to match the real-world error messages and these are two issues which show themselves when there is a relation error between two services. I'll ask around in core land
<hatch> seriously why the heck does core use so many single character variables with no documentation
 * hatch rages
<gary_poster> hatch, yeah, Tim Penhey has raged, and required book reviews etc.
<hatch> yay :)
<hatch> and yay it's snowing!
<hazmat> it seems a community stylism..
<gary_poster> hey frankban, there's hazmat!  ask him about http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-deployers/juju-deployer/trunk/view/head:/deployer/env/go.py#L213 !
<hatch> hazmat: yeah I've noticed that, and it's horrible
<hazmat> sorry outbound to a meeting..
<gary_poster> oh ok
<frankban> :-)
<hazmat> gary_poster, which i was wondering if you might interested in.. as it might touch the gui
<gary_poster> frankban, topic?  bundles -> stacks?
<gary_poster> sorry, hazmat
<hazmat> frankban, re wait_for_units?
<hazmat> frankban, needs a test?
<gary_poster> hazmat, no we wonder why UnitErrors should cause an abort.  If it does, we need better messaging through system.
<gary_poster> but ISTU that, for instance, we might as well go ahead and make relations after unit errors
<gary_poster> humans can go and address unit errors, but deployer did its thing
<gary_poster> hey frankban I need to make this unit test change in order to get the rsync /test thing to pass tests.  OK?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6443185/
<frankban> gary_poster: seems good
<gary_poster> k thx
<hatch> jujugui FYI if you see a warning in Chrome from YUI -> https://github.com/yui/yui3/issues/1417
<hatch> jujugui could I get a quick review/qa on https://codereview.appspot.com/29070043/ thanks
<bac> hatch: sure
<hatch> thanks
<hatch> jujugui call in 9
<bac> oops
<hatch> man I just CAN NOT figure out how to create a project on launchpad
<hatch> I must be missing something obvious
<hatch> found it@
<hatch> lol wow that was difficult
<gary_poster> jujugui call in 1
<hatch> https://jujucharms.com/fullscreen/search/~hatch/precise/failtester-5/?text=failtester
<luca__> gary_poster: what design bits have we launched in the last month/
<gary_poster> luca__, everything to do with bundles is biggie
<luca__> gary_poster: yeah, was trying to get other stuff too
<gary_poster> ok 1 sec
<gary_poster> then need to go to another call
<gary_poster> * The inspector tries to get out of your way when you are making a relation.
<gary_poster> * The mastheadâs UX is improved, notably giving a bit more room for the rest of the application.
<benji> aparently this disables hangout's typing mute for OSX folks: http://www.craigkerstiens.com/2013/09/12/disabling-muting-while-typing-in-hangouts/
<gary_poster> * Relations now display the names of both endpoints in the environment. (maybe design?)
<gary_poster> * Add the ability to deploy straight from quicksearch results.
<hatch> bac: hey hows that review coming? :) I'm trying to decide if I should merge it in to my current branch or wait for trunk
<gary_poster> * Remove footer from the UI and improve the header design providing more room for the environment.
<gary_poster> luca__, see five above additional to bundles.  taken from charm notes
<bac> hatch: it is going
<luca__> gary_poster: brilliant, thanks :)
<hatch> bac: oh I figured out why it said we were still in a hangout, because I closed the window with (x) instead of pressing 'hangup' ...odd
<bac> hatch: in your QA instructions you mention "launchpad states".  what does that mean?
<hatch> there are purple ones which come up along with the pending and starting
<hatch> oh...I meant landscape
<hatch> sorry :)
<hatch> bac: the % that they appear is pretty low, so that's why 100 units was requested...you may want to try more if it's taking too long
<bac> oh, that makes more sense
<hatch> :)
<bac> i have a mix of red, yellow, green, and two purples, hatch.
<hatch> sweet
<hatch> that's what we need
<hatch> equal opportunity unit statuses
<bac> hatch: i requested 100 but got 102
<hatch> that's fine
<hatch> the simulator also creates and destroys units
<bac> the R/G/Y add up to 102 and the purple are both 50ish
<bac> ok, if that's what you expect
<rick_h_> bac: thanks, had them since I was a kid. Normally not an issue but every once in a while ugh. 
<rick_h_> hatch: doh, missed one? Damn I thought I had gotten all those deployer paths and qa'd forever
<hatch> oh man now I'm confused
<rick_h_> frankban: do you have that in your branch then? card or anything?
<bac> hatch: confused?
<frankban> rick_h_: some context? :-)
<hatch> bac: sorry I thought rick_h_ was gary_poster because they are the same colour so his comment didn't make any sense :)
<hatch> frankban: the miscalled method from earlier
<bac> in that case /me -> lunch
<rick_h_> frankban: sorry, catching up on back scroll for today. The deploy method name change?
<frankban> rick_h_: created a card in urgent
<rick_h_> hatch: heh, gary and arosales were chatting and they were the same color and I thought gary was talking to himself for a minute
<rick_h_> frankban: k, thanks
<frankban> rick_h_: np, are you feeling better?
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> frankban: bit, I can see light now :) Not sure how long computer screen will last but wanted to check in. Of course I'm gone and I broke things :P
<rick_h_> never fails
<hatch> haha - rick_h_ I'm just wondering how we didn't catch that in qa or testing
<hatch> kind of an important piece to have broken and not noticed haha
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, no freaking idea. Was qa'ing it for 3 days straight
<hatch> and I also qa'd :)
<hatch> guess we need some kind of integration test
<rick_h_> good, you can take the fall for me :)
<hatch> crap
 * arosales guesses rick_h_ may have not been referring to me.
<rick_h_> arosales: sorry, only in a drive by way. 
<arosales> rick_h_, ah. I must need more coffee :-)
<benji> bac: this change fixes the test for me; is it a sane thing to do? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6443708/
<frankban> guihelp: anyone available for a quick review of a charm branch? https://codereview.appspot.com/27560044 thank you
<rick_h_> hatch: care to peek at https://codereview.appspot.com/29120043/ ? short/sweet
<hatch> sure
<rick_h_> frankban: looking, will take my time with it atm and if someone else wants it they can feel free
<frankban> rick_h_: thanks
<hatch> rick_h_: done - qa failed, see review for stacktrace
<rick_h_> hatch: bah, rgr. 
<rick_h_> hatch: oh, that's my current branch. 
<rick_h_> hatch: so will have to get them up together 
<rick_h_> hatch: qa in a live env and it should work
<hatch> blarg
<hatch> ok give me 30
<rick_h_> hatch: lxc should be ok
<hatch> yeah the gui takes forever to pull down from lp though I've found
<hatch> it's running now
<hatch> will report back
<gary_poster> jujugui...will report tomorrow on call.  Summary: it's *even bigger* and we didn't have a chance to even begin talking about planning and resourcing.
<benji> impressive
<Makyo> ._.
 * hatch cheers
<Makyo> Also, everyone but hatch is being moved off to other teams.  Good luck, hatch.
<hatch> by default that makes me team lead
<hatch> sweet!
<frankban> :-)
 * hatch sets up a mirror so he has someone to talk to on his new team of two
<hatch> new employee may need to be canned, he is duplicating ALL the work I do :/
<Makyo> Start all your own hangouts and make sure you go around at the end :)
<Makyo> Hahaha
<hatch> lol
<gary_poster> heh
<hatch> rick_h_:  qa ok on real env
<rick_h_> hatch: rgr, thanks. 
<hatch> gary_poster: do we have any direction as to where we may want to put the StatusData information on the unit view? Right now the StatusInfo is in the header with the IP, Status, etc but the StatusData could be a few lines worth...
<hatch> I can come up with something
<hatch> but I can't find anything on any mockups
<gary_poster> hatch, we had tabs on the unit view
<gary_poster> I'd make a tab
<gary_poster> If that makes sense for this kind of data?
<hatch> well this data is only valuable on an error
<hatch> else it's pretty much empty
<gary_poster> mm
<hatch> so I was thinking that it would just show in that case
<hatch> so there would be a few extra lines
<hatch> that could possibly be a first-cut as well
<gary_poster> yeah, put it in header when it exists, and if that doesn't look good enough we can worry about it later. 
<gary_poster> good?
<hatch> yep sounds like a plan
<gary_poster> cool.
 * gary_poster lunches
<benji> bac: if you get a chance can you review my branch: https://codereview.appspot.com/29210043  It includes a fix for the test failure I'm getting on trunk.
<bac> benji: sure
<bac> benji: did you find out why it wasn't seen elsewhere?
<benji> bac: no idea
<bac> benji: does justOne=True do what i'd expect?  if so, is that what you want since you're removing all revisions?
<bac> remove.py line 65
 * benji looks
<bac> er, remove_charm.py
<benji> bac: I know why that's there (it is flotsom from an earlier version) but I don't know why it still removes them all.  I'll take that argument out, nonetheless
<bac> benji: did you add ~ to BAD_CHARS to fix the odd test failure or did it cause it?
<benji> bac: yep
<bac> which?
<benji> bac: heh, I added it to fix it
<benji> bac: if I add this http://paste.ubuntu.com/6443708/ to trunk it fixes the failure on trunk for me
<bac> gah, it seems to me it would break the test
<bac> i'm really confused
<bac> the ~ will now be stripped from the search 'fo~o' so it should return results
<bac> making the test fail
<benji> I have no idea.
<benji> bac: oh, it replaces the tilda with a space, making the search string "fo o"
<bac> i think i went to school with a girl named tilda
<bac> benji: do i need to qa this or have you beaten it up well?
<benji> bac: a QA from a dispassionate observer would be appreciated
<benji> bac: but just the search bit, the deleting bit is solid
<bac> huh my mongo process has gone all wonky.  rebooting vm.
<bac> hey benji what port is mongo running on your machine? ps will tell you
<benji> bac: ps no tell me, netstat say 28017 and 27017
<bac> benji: odd, mine is on 37017 and i get failures b/c pymongo looks for it on 27017
<bac> not sure how this has happened
<bac> benji: i cannot get mongodb to launch on my system.  you may want to get someone else to do your qa
<benji> rick_h_: do you have time to QA a branch real quick; specifically to make sure I haven't broken searching with this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/charmworld/remove-charm/+merge/195839
<rick_h_> benji: Sure thing, I'll take a look. Give me a couple of min. 
<benji> rick_h_: thanks, I'll grab a bite while you do that
<bac> benji:  ping me when you return
<benji> bac: I have returned
<bac> benji: would you have time for a quick chat to help me diagnose wth happened to my mongo?
<benji> bac: sure
<benji> your hangout or mine?
<rick_h_> benji: qa notes? a basic search works I guess. Am I to qa removing a charm then? make sure it doesn't come back?
<benji> rick_h_: just search itself, i.e., search works just as in production, in particular I'm concerned with this change from that branch http://paste.ubuntu.com/6443708/
<rick_h_> so ~ is a bad char so I should test a ~XXX search then
<rick_h_> benji: so ~charmers search gets me a "Search string not parseable" error
<rick_h_> benji: charmers works fine
<rick_h_> oh wait, heh this is trunk still, was resetting the db and such in there
<rick_h_> sec 
<rick_h_> benji: ok, so ~charmers search does work vs the old error message
<rick_h_> benji: it's just the same as charmers then, same count/etc
<benji> rick_h_: ok, sounds like it's at least not worse
<rick_h_> benji: rgr, just ignores the ~
<benji> rick_h_: thanks for the QA
<rick_h_> benji: so qa'ing the removal then?
<benji> rick_h_: you can if you feel froggy, but I feel good about that bit
<rick_h_> benji: k, how do we not re-ingest it next time?
<rick_h_> benji:  should this be storing a blacklist then to mark on ingest?
<rick_h_> or is that follow up/etc
<benji> rick_h_: I think the follow-up will be making a script for the charm store that does the same thing
<rick_h_> benji: and do we re-run setup.py to pick up the new entry point on a production upgrade? Would be the other ? as far as making this work ootb for IS
<rick_h_> benji: rgr, so then it needs to track the backlist, or document the order "Remove the LP branch, remove the juju core store record, remove the charmworld record"
<rick_h_> benji: wonder if we can get that removal script in the core store to be an api callable that this script can hit at the same time 
<rick_h_> benji: anyway, qa ok'd the search issues. 
<benji> rick_h_: thanks!
<bac> benji:  do you have both /etc/init/mongodb and /etc/init.d/mongodb?
<benji> bac: only /etc/init.d/mongodb, not the other
<bac> huh
<bac> i shall remove it and reboot
<rick_h_> no upstart script?
<benji> bac: ooh, I wonder if there is some sort of "shadowing" going on there
<bac> yeah.  the one in /etc/init.d is owned by mongo-server.  the other has no package owner
<rick_h_> I've only got /etc/init/mongodb.conf
<rick_h_> and then init.d/mongodb is mongodb -> /lib/init/upstart-job
<bac> rick_h_: saucy?
<bac> (such an odd question out of context)
<rick_h_> bac: no, this is my lxc, probably precise. /me dbl checks
<rick_h_> bac: oh raring in my lxc 
<hatch> Makyo: ever since you told me why the Ubuntu font is so hard to read, I notice that 'line' everywhere
<hatch> I'm starting to think ignorance is bliss
<Makyo> Never, ever, ever live with a graphic designer.
<Makyo> Ignorance is bliss in SO MANY THINGS.
<hatch> lol
<Makyo> There's a font, Papyrus, that used to bug me just because it was overused until my roommate explained the exact ways in which it was problematic, and now it infuriates me.
<hatch> haha
<hatch> weeee http://fromanegg.com/post/67488243238/a-juju-charm-designed-to-fail
<hatch> the GUI is so awesome I just include pictures of it now to make the blog posts look better
<hatch> gary_poster: blog posts made and email sent for the fail charm just fyi
<hatch> I guess I wasn't a member when I sent the message though so it's awaiting approval
<hatch> fwereade: still here around?
<bac> benji, rick_h_: i uninstalled mongodb-server, removed the init files by hand that it left around, reinstalled the mongodb metapackage.  upon boot it wasn't running but now i can start it with '/etc/init.d/mongodb start' and it'll run.  very weird.
 * bac walk
<gary_poster> awesome thank you hatch!  Looks very good
<hatch> thanks
<gary_poster> hatch: http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/failtester-a-juju-charm-designed-to-fail-test-tool/1223
<hatch> :) thanks I forgot about this one
<gary_poster> :-) it's a novelty atm
<hatch> I'm pretty sure unit.handlebars is not used anywhere, can anyone else verify?
<hatch> I'd like someone else's confirmation before I go deleting it :)
<arosales> gary_poster, did the gui drop showing testing status for charms?
<gary_poster> arosales, not intentionally.  looking
<rick_h_> arosales: no, it's on https://jujucharms.com/fullscreen/search/precise/jenkins-8/?text=jenkins on the left side
<rick_h_> under providers, but it's been talked about a lot
<rick_h_> arosales: maybe looking at a non-promulgated charm?
<arosales> I wasn't finding it for mysql
<rick_h_> I think only the promulgated ones load test data? /me doesn't recall specifics off the top of his head
<gary_poster> arosales, I confirm what rick_h_ says
<arosales> I see jenkins, but it was missing for mysql
 * arosales reloading . .  .
<rick_h_> arosales: hmm, check with testing upstream? If we don't have the data we don't show it
<gary_poster> arosales, agreed, not there for mysql
<rick_h_> arosales: moved to cloud-dev
<arosales> rick_h_, I am pinging marco in #juju
<arosales> rick_h_, gary_poster thanks. Seems this is a result of charm testing not giving you the correct info
<arosales> we'll investigate
<gary_poster> thanks arosales 
<rick_h_> arosales: rgr, I'm out for now, but will keep an eye out ofr updates. Please file a bug on charmworld if we need to adjust things
<arosales> rick_h_, ok I think it is with our charm testing atm
#juju-gui 2013-11-20
<hatch> jujugui looking for a review and qa on https://codereview.appspot.com/29400043/
<Makyo> Will review.
<hatch> thanks
<Makyo> May not get to QA
<Makyo> Will try, though
<hatch> I just did a very deep qa so it's probably ok.....but ya know should probably have one anyways :)
<hatch> stepping away for supper now
<Makyo> Cool, yeah, same reason.  Code LGTM, will see about Qa after dinner
<hazmat> gary_poster, re unit errors, that's a previous behavior, ie errors at any point are considered fatal, part of it goes back to the original dev of deployer around stack testing/dev. noted that its not good behavior for this use case
<gary_poster> ack hazmat thanks.  if we provide branch that changes, should we make it optional and non-default, or something else, or you're not sure yet?
<hazmat> gary_poster, so there's quite a few cleanups in that same vein.. deployer has poor error handling for a library
<gary_poster> agreed, not designed for that
<gary_poster> but now that's what we want
<hazmat> gary_poster, ack, so a flag usage for it is fine.
<gary_poster> hazmat, cool, thanks.  default to erroring, to keep current behavior?
<hazmat> yup
<gary_poster> k
<gary_poster> thanks
<hazmat> gary_poster, incidentally commited that 0 int fix that frankban was looking for.
<gary_poster> awesome, thanks, will pass that on :-)
<hazmat> gary_poster, fwiw just put in a deployer merge proposal to update error/warning feedback handling, frankban as reviewer.
<gary_poster> jujugui hi.  I have to be daddy at home this morning for a bit.  Today and tomorrow are vUDS.  I have added five sessions today and tomorrow to the UI team Google calendar that I think are interesting for us (and some we are essential)
<gary_poster> Please take a look and see what you can attend
<bac> ack
<benji> k
<frankban> gary_poster: ack, available for the pre-imp when you want. guihelp: I need one review+qa for https://codereview.appspot.com/29540044 (quickstart). Anyone available? thanks
<frankban> Makyo: ^^^ includes bootstrapping with sudo, so you might be interested
<gary_poster> thank you
<gary_poster> rick_h_, you back to the land of the living today? feeling better?
 * gary_poster off on morer daddy duty
<bac> benji, rick_h_: i think i've figured out my mongo problem.  if you bootstrap a local env in juju it creates /etc/init/juju-db-<user> files to start mongo on port 37017 for its use.  destroy-environment should remove those files.  if, however, they are not removed, when you reboot that mongo instance will spin up and then the upstart for your real mongodb will see a mongo instance running and start-stop-daemon will refuse to launch another.
<benji> this seems like a bug in juju; running a local env shouldn't disable an already-running mongo
<rick_h_> bac: yea
<rick_h_> gary_poster: definitely
<rick_h_> bac: I wonder if this will be fixed by the new mongodb package they're looking to use 
<rick_h_> frankban: I can peek at it since I've been wanting local quickstart
<frankban> rick_h_: thanks
<bac> rick_h_: i don't know.  i filed bug 1253084 and have stirred the pot in #juju-dev
<_mup_> Bug #1253084: local use of mongo prevents default mongodb from starting <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253084>
<rick_h_> if I ever have a mock question I'll be banging on frankban's door
<gary_poster> rick_h_, great.  You happen to be attending the charm quality vUDS right now?  Was hoping you could be our representative
<gary_poster> rick_h_, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22007/t-cloud-juju-charm-quality-points/
<rick_h_> gary_poster: I'm listening in, I didn't want to jump in the middle
<rick_h_> gary_poster: I missed getting in on time as I was reviewing and didn't look at the calendar until a little bit ago
<rick_h_> I can jump in
<gary_poster> rick_h_, ack.  could you please ping arosales and let him know that you are the GUI representative, if he'd like one participating?
<gary_poster> thank you
<bac> yay, wasted afternoon trying to figure out juju/mongo fighting only to have bug acknowledged and marked 'low'.  go team.
<gary_poster> :-(
<rick_h_> gary_poster: do you know how to join the hangout?
<gary_poster> rick_h_, you ask arosales or other participants on channel for the link, I think.  Are you on the irc channel?
<rick_h_> gary_poster: got a link
<rick_h_> gary_poster: yep, all good
<gary_poster> awesome
<hatch> Makyo: hey are you in yet?
<hatch> jujugui anyone available for a qa? Review is already done https://codereview.appspot.com/29400043/
<gary_poster> frankban, ready for call any time soon?  My two year old may distract us, but I need to try and move forward.
<gary_poster> hatch I know you qa'd this a lot.  if you get a sandbox qa I think that's probably fine, if that helps
<gary_poster> I'll see if I can do it quickly
<frankban> gary_poster: I am using the phone connection now  :-/ but we can try
<gary_poster> frankban, can do the qa first.  would it help to wait a bit?
<rick_h_> frankban: woot, boostrap to gui: .venv/bin/python juju-quickstart  7.14s user 0.48s system 6% cpu 2:01.61 total
<frankban> gary_poster: yes it could, could you ping me later?
<gary_poster> frankban, sure, or you ping me when you are ready
<frankban> rick_h_: cool
<frankban> gary_poster: ok
<arosales> good to see rick_h_ got a link
<rick_h_> arosales: all good, thanks
<gary_poster> hatch, silly, but in sandbox, difference: Status Info: hook failed: db-relation-changed vs Status Info: hook failed: "config-changed" (notice quotes)
<gary_poster> hatch, also Status Data does not seem to update properly
<gary_poster> in sandbox
<hatch> hmm
<gary_poster> should disappear when no longer in error
<gary_poster> yeah?
<hatch> it should....
<hatch> checking on that
<hatch> ahh right, I never clear the agent state data on non errors in sandbox
<hatch> good catch :)
<hatch> the quotes are in the response from core so I'll add them to the relation-changed text
<gary_poster> cool.  also, hatch, more concerning for larger system (not your branch, probably), but I can pretty easily (1 in 12 attempts, say) click on a unit in error and get no information
<gary_poster> then if I click again it will show error info
<hatch> yeah I noticed that too
<hatch> just going to make sure it happens on comingsoon
<gary_poster> good idea
<hatch> yeah it's there
<hatch> I'll file a bug
<gary_poster> thanks.  odd
<hatch> yeah that doesn't make any sense - probably some type of race condition with the databinding
<gary_poster> tried the "break on any error" setting and triggered the problem: nothing.  so that won't help.
<frankban> gary_poster: the network seems to work better now
<gary_poster> cool frankban.  hatch, sandbox QA OK with given notes.  
<gary_poster> brb
<hatch> great thanks gary_poster they are fixed, just testing locally now
<gary_poster> great
<hatch> watching, waiting, of course I picked the only unit that the simulator loves to keep in error hah
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> frankban, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpjkfegd2n1821q2jb6snlo4?hl=en no rush 
<benji> bac: do you have any getting-started hints on charmtools dev?  I'm library-ifying proof and both the readme and makefiles are crap
<bac> benji: don't forget the test runner!
<bac> i mean in your list
<benji> bac: definiately; maybe that should be the first thing I do (along with making the README and Makefile better)
<bac> but, no, i have no tips
<benji> k
<bac> benji: getting a sane test suite would be the first task i would think.
<benji> yep
<bac> benji: note there are lots of python tests that exist, and may even be good, but are not run.
<benji> I guess I'll use nose, since it seems to be the popular choice of the times.
<benji> I'll lay odds that tests that are not run will not be very good.
<frankban> gary_poster: I don't hear you
<hatch> -19C today....oooo winter hath arrived
<rick_h_> hatch: beat me, 1.6C here 
<hatch> and you have winter tires....pssshht
<rick_h_> heh, it's more for Jan 
<rick_h_> and the utter crap stock tires
<jcsackett> hey jujugui dudes, is there anything y'all have done for charmworld that's not yet safe to release to production?
<bac> not me
<benji> jcsackett: not that I am aware of, let me skim the recent changes real quick
<bac> jcsackett: when you releasing?
<jcsackett> bac: if you guys don't have anything dangerous, i'll put in the RT today.
<bac> jcsackett: ok, we may follow up with another shortly
<benji> jcsackett: it looks safe to me
<jcsackett> benji: thanks.
<benji> np
<gary_poster> jcsackett, btw re comments in bug 1253123, please make sure that orange squad is coordinating with UX and UI team on any big charmworld changes: there are some gigantic plans up in the air there and we should make sure that we don't work to cross purposes
<_mup_> Bug #1253123: No javascript test infrastructure <tech-debt> <charmworld:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253123>
 * gary_poster returns to call
<jcsackett> gary_poster: when we get to it, you got it.
<gary_poster> cool
<hatch> jcsackett: kernel panic != crash?
<hatch> :)
<jcsackett> hatch: kernel panic is more descriptive, and i was punting it over to the ubuntu folks so i thought i would spare them interpreting the bug. :-)
<hatch> oh haha
<jcsackett> *really* not sure how that got filed against charmworld.
<jcsackett> it makes sense when someone accidentally files against, say, launchpad, since that's the site you're on. can't fathom the pattern that led to that filing.
<hatch> it was probably the first in the dropdown and they didn't change it
<hatch> haha
<hatch> man it feels so weird not having Twitter installed on my phone
<hatch> I never realized how often I checked it haha
<Makyo> jujugui call in 10
<gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
<rick_h_> bac: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/patch.html#where-to-patch
<rick_h_> bac: the big thing is to patch the module using vs the original source
<gary_poster> benji, starting
 * benji takes an early lunch.
<gary_poster> hey bac, could you give me the link to the bundle docs, so I can refer to them on the vUDS call?
<gary_poster> benji, frankban is the juju core call over already?
<frankban> gary_poster: yes
<gary_poster> anything interesting?
<frankban> gary_poster: for us, ha the most interesting. unit leader election could be something we'll had to represent too
<benji> gary_poster: yep
<gary_poster> frankban, we don't need to represent ha though, right?  except maybe as a switch?  IIUC, their HA approach leaves us out in the cold for being able to transparently switch
<benji> yeah, it was things we already knew were coming
<gary_poster> frankban, "unit leader"?
<gary_poster> new idea, for master slave?
<frankban> gary_poster: ha, isn't it something we need to support in the guiserver?
<gary_poster> frankban, the way that mramm described it to me lately is that they plan to only deliver db level HA
<frankban> gary_poster: oic
<gary_poster> you have to do something manual to switch state servers IIRC
<gary_poster> maybe that has changed yet again, dunno
<frankban> yeah, forgot about that distinction
<frankban> Makyo: ping
<Makyo> frankban, Hey
<frankban> Makyo: I landed a branch which makes use of sudo in quickstart. I just tested it by ensuring (with mock) that utils.call is called with the expected args. Is it any different from what you are doing re sudo stuff?
<Makyo> frankban, I'm mocking subprocess.Popen: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~makyo/juju-quickstart/ensure-juju-lxc/view/head:/quickstart/tests/test_utils.py
<bac> gary_poster: is the session going?  i see nothing.
<gary_poster> bac, trying to figure out where to go :-/
<bac> gary_poster: you wanted this: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1paE70HEVgKA6LIjngzMa83OYr5jkZrOJ0hVNrYUuva0/edit
<gary_poster> thank you bac
<gary_poster> jujugui, jcastro points out I got the time wrong.  sorry.  starts in 1 hr
<bac> gah!
<rick_h_> bac: gets extra lunch time!
<hatch> gary_poster: where is the vuds links and whatnot? I can't seem to find them anywhere on the ubuntu website
<bac> rick_h_: i raced through my leftover steak and beans
<frankban> Makyo: ack, quick hangout?
<rick_h_> bac: desert time!
<Makyo> frankban, sure
<hatch> the Chrome Dev Summit starts today as well :)
<bac> rick_h_: hmm, i could walk up to ben & jerry's
<bac> rick_h_: here is what i have, test-wise http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6448832/
<rick_h_> doh! jealous
<gary_poster> bac, sorry, I suck
<frankban> Makyo: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpjmcijt0iomhsrqqr05lf00?hl=en
<bac> rick_h_: utils is where it is defined.  views.bundles imports and uses it.  i tried mocking both.
<bac> but, like i asked, can you be too far up the call chain for the mock to work?
<rick_h_> bac: right, but how does views.bundles import it? I think you want from charmworld.views import bundles; patch(bundles.utils.get_bundle_downloads)
<rick_h_> bac: assuming that in bundles it's from charmworld import utils
<rick_h_> otherwise shrink it down until it directly matches
<rick_h_> that might be patch(bundles.get_bundle_downloads)
<bac> rick_h_: OH.  i don't think i imported it in the test b/c the test doesn't use it.
<hatch> `juju run` sounds sweet! ME WANT!!!!
<hatch> sorry, just listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjzImjEinB8&feature=share&t=2m :)
<rick_h_> hatch: so what's juju run
<hatch> rick_h_: allows you to run any script as if it's a hook
<rick_h_> bac: right, but you want to patch it in the view namespace so you'll want to import it and patch it there
<hatch> so it has the hook api/env
<rick_h_> hatch: ah, cool
<bac> rick_h_: something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6449182/
<rick_h_> bac: yea, I think so
<bac> rick_h_: yeah, that doesn't work either
<rick_h_> bac: push a branch up?
<bac> rick_h_: lp:~bac/charmworld/add-stats-to-api --  it is test_api.py that is failing
<rick_h_> bac: k, second
<benji> I've always wanted one to call my own: http://www.hatchpet.com/
<hatch> like tamagochi
<hatch> but not nearly as cool
<hatch> oh THESE are the people who have @hatch
<rick_h_> bac: you're patching the views/bundles but you're calling the api/__init__.py 
<rick_h_> bac: change that from views/bundles to views.api and it works
<bac> rick_h_: doh
<bac> rick_h_: thanks for the eyeballs
<rick_h_> bac: np, been there done that
<hatch> gary_poster: so the error titles are too long at 'hook error: db-relation-changed' so to allow longer hook names I tried 'error: webiste-relation-changed' which is also too long. so....I was thinking using ellipsis and then show the full title on hover?
<benji> hatch: I feel your pain, there's a guy who has @benjiyork who has tweeted about 5 times, over 3 years ago
<hatch> so it would be 'hook error: db-relation-cha...'
<hatch> benji: ugh - I wish Twitter allowed people to trade/give away names
<hatch> but I just deleted the Twitter app from my phone because of their new permissions so my twitter use will likely drop dramatically
<benji> they have been hinting at a policy change for a couple of years now regarding "unused" handles, but nothing has come of it yet
<hatch> yeah they seem very slow to move on things
<gary_poster> hatch sorry was lunching.  what about allowing the line to break?
<hatch> gary_poster: it looks really bad
<gary_poster> even with reverse indent?
<hatch> the first thing it does is push the ^ arrow to the next line
<hatch> gary_poster: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s219/sh/78b56078-9a9e-48ed-b935-734c3f78620b/93c2d0e6586dbf5a390a4669a481d93a
<hatch> see the landscape line
<benji> darn, jcsackett; I was just about to start on bug 1252782 when you un-assigned it from charmworld
<_mup_> Bug #1252782: Ejecting external USB hard drive causes kernel panic <Ubuntu:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252782>
<gary_poster> hatch, oh! I see.  How about ellipsis, which simply line breaks when it is open?
<gary_poster> lol benji
<benji> :)
<hatch> gary_poster: hmm....
<hatch> gary_poster: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s219/sh/436d81d0-dfbd-44ad-af4d-1a51040e76ea/02aed2d352ef1bbed2132197a792cc62
<hatch> still looks kind of bad...no?
<gary_poster> hatch, yes. ideally arrow would be on far right, and word woruld line break
<gary_poster> so
<gary_poster> 12 machines need to be      ^
<gary_poster> restarted
<gary_poster> ?
<hatch> 12 machines need to be      ^
<hatch>                    restarted
<hatch> ?
<gary_poster> heh
<hatch> yeah that might work
<hatch> so..
<hatch> hook failed: website-relation-.... ^
<hatch> then
<hatch> hook failed: website-relation-    ^
<hatch>                               changed
<arosales> rick_h_, gary_poster were you guys going to join the Juju GUI Roadmap and Update session?
<gary_poster> hatch yeah
<hatch> that sounds good I'll do that
 * hatch wishes there were an evernote and skitch Ubuntu app
 * benji wonders why the "Starting Soon" screen on the hangouts looks so funny with the offset text and all.
<bac> that icon looks more like sliced bread.  should
<hatch> they say for gaming? I say for development! http://www.anandtech.com/show/7529/gaming-immersion-overclockersuk-launch-infinity-emperor-chair-and-workstation
<bac> benji &/| rick_h_: charmworld review at your leisure.   https://codereview.appspot.com/29850043
<gary_poster> hatch, "powder coated Canadian steel."  Y'all do something funny to your steel up there? :-)
<gary_poster> (from your link)
<benji> bac: I'll take a look
<hatch> gary_poster: lol maybe it's from the 'olden days' when people were using Chinese steel that would rust really fast
<gary_poster> heh
<hatch> "our steel may be from the 1970's but it was made in Canada!"
<hatch> I can envision that in the FAQ
<gary_poster> lol
<gary_poster> bac, benji, pretty fascinating GUI update? :-)
<gary_poster> and rick_h_ :-)
 * benji just stopped applauding and sat back down.
<gary_poster> lol
<rick_h_> gary_poster: :) 
<rick_h_> "Is still not determined..."
<rick_h_> Should have gone all secret agent "I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you"
<arosales> gary_poster, did you have some thoughts on how we should field bundle bugs?
<arosales> gary_poster, right off hand I am thinking juju-core and we can triage from there, but wanted to get your thoughts
<gary_poster> arosales, probably file against gui and/or gui + deployer.  The interrelationship between GUI and deployer is somewhat subtle.
<arosales> ya, and perhaps we triage the bug to that project
<gary_poster> right
<arosales> but for users may hit juju-core since it is all juju to them.
<gary_poster> arosales, ack.  then triage it again, I'd say.
<arosales> I think nick was seeing some deploy errors around the wiki bundle. Still needs some further investigation. But if we can reproduce we will file against GUI for now.
<gary_poster> cool thanks arosales 
<rick_h_> bac: got a sec to chat?
<bac> rick_h_: sure
<rick_h_> bac: card added and assigned over to 
<rick_h_> bac: added in the notes what I found on the call/token issue
<bac> thanks rick_h_.  i'll get right on it.
<rick_h_> jujugui review please of my hacky addition of no op'ing all the things! https://codereview.appspot.com/29860044 please 
<bac> rick_h_: ok
<rick_h_> benji: did you grab bac's review then? If not I can look now
<benji> rick_h_: yeah, I just finished
<rick_h_> benji: cool I've got perfect timing then
<benji> :)
<rick_h_> gary_poster: can I get a couple of min when you get a sec please? I know you're backed up with some calls
<bac> rick_h_: "- Drive by fix for deploying a bundle via drag-n-drop." this is no longer true, right?  if so,be sure to edit it out when you 'lbox submit'
<rick_h_> bac: ah right sorry
<gary_poster> rick_h_, sure.  you need me now, or is in 30 min ok?
<rick_h_> gary_poster: whenever is good
<rick_h_> gary_poster: so 30min is cool
<gary_poster> rick_h_, ack, thanks will ping
<bac> rick_h_: did
<rick_h_> bac: ?
<bac> benji: the four character code review is the best.
<bac> rick_h_: i did your review.  your review has been did.
<rick_h_> I did something?
<rick_h_> oh! lol
<rick_h_> bac: commit message "fix all the engrish"
<rick_h_> thanks for the review!
<gary_poster> rick_h_, the hangouts, they are a-callin' : https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpjmspmqkgcq1hpt7fl71lso?hl=en
<Makyo> jujugui two quickstart reviews + QA https://codereview.appspot.com/29980043 (down from +300 lines, thanks to frankban's branch this morning!)
<gary_poster> I will take one in a few if there are still any spots
<gary_poster> going to get boys from school; back soon
<bac> hey rick_h_, token.js shows a Token has a type (charm or bundle).  but i don't see it getting set or used.  am i missing something?  (otherwise in that _addDragability i don't know how to tell them apart)
<bac> rick_h_: nm
 * bac -> wtd
<rick_h_> bac: cool, yea there's another method that uses it I was going to copy it from
<gary_poster> Makyo, LGTM (but no QA) with extremely trivial
<Makyo> gary_poster, thanks!
<gary_poster> welcome, thank you
<gary_poster> rick_h_, if you are around, more than a little curious to see if you think I caught the gist of our CI conversation.  Please correct/elaborate as necessary
<rick_h_>  gary_poster in the hangout notes? I can look at the coffee shop tonight. 
<rick_h_> gary_poster: oh, just noticed the email, all good. Will review
<gary_poster> rick_h_, no emailed to peeps
<gary_poster> cool thank you :-)
#juju-gui 2013-11-21
<bac> jujugui: just noticed staging.jujucharms.com is down.  looking into it.
<gary_poster> thanks bac
<gary_poster> frankban, may be a hair late for call, but will try not to be.
<frankban> gary_poster: ack no problem
<gary_poster> thx
<bac> jujugui: staging was in a hook config-changed error.  re-running the hook cleared it up.  can't explain.
<benji> odd
<frankban> bac: do we have hook logs?
<bac> frankban: i'll look
<frankban> bac: thanks
<gary_poster> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6453180/
<benji> marcoceppi: I'm sure you're busy with UDS again, but if you get a few minutes I'd like to have that chat
<marcoceppi> benji: we can do it during lunchtime at UDS
<benji> marcoceppi: cool, ping me when you're ready
<benji> jcsackett: did your charmworld deployment happen yesterday?
<rick_h_> benji: I'll have to try to get out out today to get the download counts into the api for the gui branch I've got. 
<rick_h_> luca__: ping around? or antdillon 
<antdillon> rick_h_, Hey, hows things?
<rick_h_> antdillon: party party. I'm adding the download counts to the bundle token/details and wanted to make sure I'm just adding a 3rd row of metadata and copying the wording from charms "Deployed X times"
<antdillon> rick_h_, I'd love to say yes but havnt seen the design for a while. I chase down Luca and get back to ya
<rick_h_> antdillon: thanks, appreciate it.
<antdillon> rick_h_, Are charm names always all lowercase?
<rick_h_> antdillon: hmm, no, nothing enforcing it I can think of
<hatch> we should
<hatch> :)
<luca__> rick_h_: bundle token is is meant to show "X services | X units"
<luca__> rick_h_: as seen here: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1NFRjWW1MQkNkVWs/edit
<luca__> rick_h_: and so are bundle details
<luca__> rick_h_: as seen here: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B7XG_QBXNwY1R0Z4YzVXYVlORVU/edit
<rick_h_> luca__: right, but we've added the new ability to track downloads of bundles, which we could not do before
<rick_h_> luca__: so I'm wondering where to stick it
<luca__> rick_h_: interesting
<rick_h_> bac: ping, I'm also having issues getting the counts to work in search. I get 0's even though when I hit the bundle directly I get a download count. 
<luca__> rick_h_: so for now put "X services | X units | Deployed X times on the details only
<rick_h_> bac: nvm, looking a tthe wrong numbers
<luca__> rick_h_: argh, I'm not sure where to put it
<rick_h_> luca__: see, why ping you guys :)
<bac> rick_h_: ok
<luca__> rick_h_: I might get Spencer to mock it up quickly
<luca__> rick_h_: is that ok?
<rick_h_> luca__: yep, not a problem. Thanks
<jcsackett> benji: yeah, we deployed through r464.
<benji> cool, thanks
<hatch> -19C feels like -28C
<hatch> it's days like this that I'm glad I don't have to drive to work
<benji> rick_h_: have you worked on the charm store any?
<rick_h_> benji: no, I found the code once when I was trying to figure out where it went but never messed with it. 
<rick_h_> benji: my understanding is that it's hazmat's baby and he talked about doing a bunch with it at last sprint
<benji> yeah
<hatch> gary_poster: when you have a moment I think I have finally found a promise lib that checks all of the boxes https://github.com/petkaantonov/bluebird
<frankban> hatch: http://imgur.com/HpgCyIQ
<hatch> lol wow that would suck - the worst I've ever had is up to the windows
<rick_h_> benji: looks nice
<benji> rick_h_: I know I do... wait, what?
<rick_h_> benji: :) your link
<benji> rick_h_: which link is that?
<rick_h_> oh sorry, that was hatch that linked it
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> reading irc fail today
<hatch> lol
<hatch> rick_h_: you read the promise stuff?
<rick_h_> well I'm not going to give hatch credit
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> hatch: went through the readme
<hatch> I didnt' expect much beyond "it's a promise, it sucks" from you :P
<rick_h_> hatch: I've been burned by fire too many times, but it says it won't hurt me
<rick_h_> just don't trust it :P
<hatch> don't worry, it has candy
<hatch> it won't hurt you
<rick_h_> I don't believe
<hatch> the cake is a lie
<gary_poster> hatch, cool, will look soon
<gary_poster> hey luca__ you want me in the meeting, or just watching & on irc?
<luca__> gary_poster: come on the meeting
<luca__> gary_poster: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1TDkZ5Sm76QEbpNKR5wPOcqyY-D6xu6wqfM-6qwdzULc/edit#slide=id.g7adc252f_0_33
<gary_poster> great luca__ will do
<luca__> gary_poster: what do you think
<luca__> gary_poster: ?
<gary_poster> luca__, amazing!  a lot of effort and looks great
<luca__> gary_poster: join us in the hangout and speak out the dev effort
<luca__> about^
<luca__> gary_poster: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpjj966m9ee4cgq98undnp0c?authuser=0&hl=en-GB
<hatch> rick_h_: do you need a review?
<rick_h_> hatch: not yet thanks though
<hatch> OH KAY!
<hatch> rick_h_: that's one heck of a diff lol
<hatch> ~2400 haah
<rick_h_> hatch: it's all one test/data/json file
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> it's a tiny branch
<hatch> oh lol I didn't open it
<hatch> are we going to be pushing the standup because of vuds ?
<rick_h_> yesterday he didn't say so, but might be a strange/light standup 
<hatch> yeah I'd be ok with pushing it an hour
<gary_poster> brb
<hatch> I gota step out and help boost a neighbours car, will be back in 10
<bac> jujugui: review please https://codereview.appspot.com/29960045
<benji> bac: I'll take a look.
<hatch> bac: I can when I get back
<hatch> ok cool
<hatch> :)
<benji> heh
<bac> how does one boost a car?
<rick_h_> bac: jumper cables?
<bac> no, those are for jumping a car.  does he have booster cables
 * benji was thinking "boost" as in "steal"
<rick_h_> "can you give me a boost" 
<bac> hell, he could be using a jack for all i know
<rick_h_> I guess I've heard it said that way
<bac> boost it up so i can get the tyre off
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, I mean we've all seen gone in 60 seconds and boost if the #1 word from the movie I think
<rick_h_> but guess I've heard it both ways
<bac> well, i haven't quite seen that yet.  perhaps after my smokey and the bandit marathon.
<rick_h_> what?! well now you've got a task this weekend. 
<benji> http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/31/us/new-york-los-angeles-cannonball-speed-record/
<rick_h_> the remake isn't bad, little cheesy in places but the car scenes and mic'd well 
<antdillon> rick_h_, Hey got a sec?
<rick_h_> antdillon: sure thing
<antdillon> rick_h_, Is https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/search/interesting down? How long for?
<antdillon> Just started using it for testing lol
<rick_h_> antdillon: oh hmm, interesting
<rick_h_> antdillon: I did request a upgrade but it hasn't happened yet that I know. Looking into it
<antdillon> rick_h_, Awesome thanks
<rick_h_> antdillon: looks like the upgrade is in progress and things are going boom atm. Will update you when I know more
<antdillon> rick_h_, Awesome thanks
<jcastro> gary_poster, bundle workflows in ~20
<gary_poster> jcastro, ack thx.
<hatch> back
<bac> gary_poster: are we moving our standup for the uds session?
<hatch> bac: rick_h_ benji to 'boost' is to 'jump start' a car :)
<rick_h_> jujugui heads up the mjc deploy went boom and so the api and such are not returning atm. Working with webops
<bac> uh oh.  let me know if i can help rick_h_
<gary_poster> rick_h_, urg and thank you
<gary_poster> bac, I was going to suggest that we have standup without me
<hatch> I'd like to watch the vuds
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> then
<hatch> standup as soon as it's done?
<gary_poster> jujugui want to move standup to one hour later?
<rick_h_> bac: did you have a migration or anything that hit ES in your branch?
<gary_poster> any objections?
<bac> rick_h_: no siree
<hatch> sure - the chrome dev summit also starts in 1:45
<rick_h_> bac: k, didn't think so but ES seems up and dead and can't figure out why. The deploy shouldn't have touched it that I can tell
<gary_poster> hopefully our standup won't take more than 30 min ;-)
<hatch> haha i'd hope :)
<bac> gary_poster: let's just go around here.  nothing from me.  :)
<hatch> learnt some interesting stuff with it in the background yesterday
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> would like to have call actually
<bac> ok, i'll send my people out for chicken
<gary_poster> bac, I owe you one for yesterday.  If you want to bow out for today's call np.
<hatch> the link in the calendar wasn't working for me
<hatch> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22004/t-cloud-juju-bundle-workflows/ this one works
<bac> gary_poster: thanks, but i'm eating now.  not a problem.  i didn't need a big plate of fried chicken and plantains after all.
<gary_poster> ok, still owe you then ;-)
<rick_h_> adeuring: can you join #webops please. ES on mjc went boom and I think it's a matter of marking an unassinged shard back to assignment. I'm looking for people that have messed with ES to help get it back up please?
<adeuring> rick_h_: ack
<Makyo> jujugui snow is throwing a wrench in plans, can someone adopt lp:~makyo/juju-quickstart/ensure-juju-lxc to address frankban's concerns?
<bac> rick_h_: who requested the mjc deploy?
<hatch> Makyo: just submit it with adopt?
<Makyo> hatch, with concerns addressed - that's the part I won't have time for.
<bac> Makyo: if there are changes to be made i can handle it this afternoon
<Makyo> bac, thank you
<bac> Makyo: this is for the card "Install repo and juju" ?
<Makyo> bac, yes
<bac> cool.
<jcastro> gary_poster, for the summary for UDS, what do you consider the top 3 things your team is working on for this cycle? 
<bac> benji: are you looking at my review?
<benji> bac: I'm trying to QA and having issues (with Juju itself I think)
<bac> oh, ok.
<bac> that QA is tiresome
<gary_poster> jcastro, (1) not clear yet, unfortunately; and (2) it may not be public once it is.
<benji> bac: how long does the gui take to come up after the juju set juju-gui "juju-gui-source=lp:~bac/juju-gui/fix-dnd-bundles-wrt-id" command?
<bac> oh, a bit
<bac> a few minutes.  not crazy slow
<jcastro> gary_poster, ok, so I can just say "continuing Juju GUI improvements"
<gary_poster> jcastro, +1
<rick_h_> antdillon: it's up, don't know for how long and don't know why, but it's working atm
<rick_h_> jujugui mjc is up and running, it's a confusing mess, but it's alive 
<bac> thanks rick_h_
<hatch> rick_h_: anything we can do to fix this? It seems to happen more often than we'd like :)
<gary_poster> rick_h_, good news at least.  thank you.
<rick_h_> will bring up on standup
<hatch> for the record I know absolutely nothing about how it's setup :D
<gary_poster> Pretty sure it is hatch's fault :-P
<bac> hatch: the best approach is to have a pre-deploy environment similar to production in prodstack
<hatch> gary_poster: probably! They should have written it in javascript
<gary_poster> :-)
<hatch> for some reason it keeps complaining about the {} I put in there
<hatch> :P
<gary_poster> :-)
<hatch> ignoring the content of the article.....this plane is bonkers huge http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/11/dreamlifter-wrong-airport/?cid=co14766074
<bac> NPR claims they are going to try to take off at 13:00 ET
<hatch> I love that 'try' I am going to guess they only get a single chance at this
<hatch> it's not like they can abort 3/4 of the way down
<hatch> hopefully they can find a nice headwind
<hatch> to help lift that thing
<bac> hatch: i saw the antonov a few years ago: http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=77711790@N00&q=antonov  it is a bigger plane but the dreamlifter has large cargo volume
<bac> s/large/larger/
<hatch> jeesh
<hatch> I saw one of those double decker planes nosed in at the airport once....standing at the window in the terminal and we still didn't even come up to the middle of the nose
<hatch> I can't even imagine the amount of power those engines need to generate to move that thing
<hatch> this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Airbus_A380_Paris_Air_Show.jpg
<hatch> jujugui call in 3
<gary_poster> ah, thank you
<hatch> hah I forgot too
<benji> bac: QA didn't go well (the count didn't increment)
<bac> benji: did you give it some delay?
<benji> bac: (as in between the deploy and the 'juju set juju-gui "charmworld-url=http://staging.jujucharms.com"') yep
<bac> benji: no, as it, check the counts again now
<bac> s/it/in/
<benji> bac: it incremented!
<benji> yay
<bac> benji: i really don't understand the lag
<benji> is there a cache in front of the app?
<benji> that is odd
<bac> probs
<rick_h_> yea, there's apache and squid in front
<hatch> when is your turkey day?
<rick_h_> thurs
<rick_h_> of next week
<hatch> ahh ok
<bac> hey frankban one of our italian friends gave us one of these (early) for christmas.  do you eat them?  any good?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panettone
<hatch> looks like a Babka bread
<hatch> (Ukranian)
<frankban> bac: it depends, some of those are very good, others are just like eating paper... yeah it's a very typical christmas sweet in italy
<hatch> probably the same :) if so, then it should be sort of a sweet bread
<gary_poster> oh frankban you want to talk?  sorry
<gary_poster> I was about to head out
<frankban> hatch: yes, usually with raisin and candy
<frankban> gary_poster: reading the diff, quick call in 5 minutes?
<gary_poster> frankban, going to lunch w/ wife.  will see if you are back when I return
<bac> jujugui: the branch i'm landing now for juju-gui has some retry logic to handle the lbox-404 problem.  let me know if you see it again.
<gary_poster> if not email?
<frankban> gary_poster: sounds good
<gary_poster> ok ty
<bac> btw, lbox-404 has a new album coming out soon
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> jujugui can I get a review please? https://codereview.appspot.com/30210044/
<hatch> sure
<rick_h_> claiming small review since 99% of the changes are the test data
 * hatch waits for the 3 or so more patch sets rick_h_ will commit before he is done his review :P
<rick_h_> hatch: :P
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> it's why you don't review until i ask. I like to push up and self-review and usually find something to fix
<hatch> ahh
<hatch> I usually try to `bzr diff --old ../../trunk | vim -` before I propose
<hatch> saves me from doing the huge lbox delay multiple times
<rick_h_> I like the context change and verification that lbox is happy 
<bac> frankban: did you QA matthew's branch?
<rick_h_> well, lbox is slow, but 2:32 for the last run
<frankban> bac: no, I was waiting for the fixes
<rick_h_> so not enough to put off getting the nice diff/review space
<rick_h_> hatch: http://nuclearsquid.com/writings/reporttime-in-zsh/ :)
<hatch> oh boy I wish
<hatch> I'm probably closer to 4m
<hatch> on 4m <---- this side of the 4m :D
<hatch> rick_h_: have you ever used ZNC for irc?
<rick_h_> hatch: no
<hatch> alright - last night I was looking at various irc bouncers
<rick_h_> hatch: no, I just keep my irc window open on a side monitor. I don't get ping's or anything
<hatch> ahh - yeah I was hoping to get something that keeps me always logged in so I can move from computer to computer and keep the history
<rick_h_> yea, I get that by running irssi on my ec2 server, but it's disconnected
<bac> frankban: i've made the changes to matt's branch if you have time to QA.  lp:~bac/juju-quickstart/makyo-ensure-juju-lxc
<gary_poster> frankban, I'm back but you should be gone. :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: heh :-) 
<gary_poster> frankban, do you want to talk, or call it a night?
<hatch> rick_h_: so this 'downloads_in_past_30_days' when is that passed in?
<hatch> I dont' see it in the current diff
<rick_h_> hatch: from the api, it's dumped into the model as the whole object
<rick_h_> hatch: that was updated in the back end, so cfg just *has* it
<hatch> oh ok
<hatch> so the issue there is that if there are any updates to that attribute from the api, cfg won't be updated
<hatch> is that not a concern?
<rick_h_> huh? I don't see the concern
<hatch> say the model is created
<hatch> then we update the model
<hatch> downloads_in_past_30_days will be the new value, but recent_download_count will be the old one
<rick_h_> it's read only, not sure how that would be updated
<rick_h_> so no, not an issue since it's based off of 15min ingest data and isn't written
<hatch> ok so we will never update the model once it's been loaded once
<rick_h_> if we start writing bundle/charm models then we've got a LOT more work to figure out 
<rick_h_> hatch: right
<hatch> ahh ok - so this will eventually be a problem when we implement a proper client side database
<rick_h_> the absolute worst case, is that we cached the model and ingest happened in the last 10min and you don't see the updated count atm because we hit our cache
<hatch> but until then I suppose it's ok
<rick_h_> but welcome to caching
<frankban> bac: well over my EOD, can do it tomorrow, or please feel free to do the QA and merge if you want.
<bac> frankban: ok.  if it isn't merged please take a look tomorrow.
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, this is the same way the current charm model works. I'd like to keep it in sync and how to deal with a client-side-db is interesting, but yagni
<frankban> bac: sure! thanks
<hatch> done
<rick_h_> gary_poster: so should I be working on my ci chops or my 'how does elasticsearch' work chops?
<gary_poster> rick_h_, ...ci.
<rick_h_> gary_poster: k
<gary_poster> thank you
<rick_h_> hatch: thanks for the review. No good reason to not use value vs valueFn. Updating now.
<hatch> cool
<rick_h_> just skipped the brain
<hatch> :) sok
<hatch> using juju lxc if the install script modifies /etc stuff will that be restricted to the lxc container and not spill over to the host?
<rick_h_> hatch: rgr
<rick_h_> hatch: it has it's own /etc dir in the lxc container
<hatch> same goes for /var and /tmp etc?
<rick_h_> hatch: yep
<hatch> cool - I am jut going to test a guys charm while I'm working and didn't want to run the risk of mucking up my host machine
<rick_h_> yea, lxc ftw
<rick_h_> just watch out for your home dir if you bind that to your lxc containers
<hatch> not unless juju does that
<rick_h_> no
<hatch> kewl
<hatch> hmm debug-log is broken
<hatch> that's awesome
<rick_h_> debug-log doesn't work in lxc
<hatch> ohh
<hatch> well then!
<bac> wheels up
<hatch> yeah?
<hatch> I missed it I guess heh
<bac> boring.  yay.
<hatch> that's the best kind of flight :)
<hatch> sometimes the right way....was the first way
<hatch> jujugui when debugging model data use `console.table(data)` it works.....awwwweeeesuuummmmm
<benji> cool
<bac> hey blog that or something
<hatch> I can do that
<hatch> https://www.evernote.com/shard/s219/sh/5629e020-c68a-4d60-a839-72de7228b0d3/61cacd5857605826f28179505d7811d3
<hatch> is what it gives you
<hatch> so it's not 'perfect' but very helpful
<bac> looks good
<hatch> hey gary_poster|away back yet?
<hatch> jujugui does anyone remember why we hide the unit action buttons when the unit is pending?
<hatch> Don't we want people to be able to retry/remove them?
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, I was playing with the chrome dev snippets and a lot of them use the console.table and very cool for thigns like header dumping and such
<hatch> yeah really a fan now
<hatch> :)
<rick_h_> hatch: if it's pending can you retry/remove? Don't you have to wait for it to be done and in error before you can retry/resolve?
<rick_h_> ooh, kitkat for my n10 just arrived, be back after install/reboot
<hatch> rick_h_: well sometimes it can get stuck in pending
<hatch> so that's why I'm curious
<rick_h_> hatch: hmm, yea if it's stuck in pending then I'd think there's a bug there. Curious what the log is for that then. 
<hatch> well it's not really a bug
<hatch> if I have an infinite loop in my install hook
<hatch> it'll pend forever
<rick_h_> right, that's a charm bug
<hatch> yeah
<hatch> but maybe not
<hatch> it could be an issue with anything really
<hatch> looped internets or something
<hatch> I'm just saying we should probably give the user the ability to something about it
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, but let's make it something useful
<hatch> I don't know how we can tell if it's useful or not
<rick_h_> if there's something retry can offer, then I'm all for it, but I'm not convinced it's just giving users false hope
<hatch> oh....right, but there is no way we can tell that
<rick_h_> hatch: find me a use case where retry would have been useful and maybe showing it can be done :)
<rick_h_> anyway, I'm not sure on why it's not visible. It might just be a juju limitation
<rick_h_> I'm just talking through why it might be one way or another
<hatch> right - I can't think of one
<hatch> hah
<hatch> I've just seen charms stuck in pending before
<rick_h_> then let it be I say. If it turns out to be something useful it can probably change. 
<rick_h_> hatch: right, I've seem people say in #juju about charms pending. I just can't say that retry/resolve helped them at all
<rick_h_> so I'd want to verify the right way to fix a 'stuck' charm is exposed to the user vs just "here's some more buttons"
<rick_h_> imo
<hatch> right but there is no way we can offer that to the user
<hatch> because pending CAN take hours
<hatch> or days really hah
<rick_h_> heh, yea. 
<hatch> once we get logging then that will be awesome
<hatch> but for now I think I'll show the buttons
<hatch> it's trivial to remove them
<hatch> unless of course juju doesn't support retry/remove on pending units
<hatch> hmm who would know
<hatch> I asked in #juju-dev
<hatch> we'll see
<hatch> ugh I hate implementing sorting
<rick_h_> hatch: :P
<hatch> well the damn things never work as they are supposed to
<hatch> I need to go and just write sorting algorithms for a month or so to get better at it
<hatch> haha
<hatch> annnd of course I missed an = sign
 * hatch shakes fist at javascript
<hatch> I had it right all along
<hatch> lol
#juju-gui 2013-11-22
<rick_h_> hatch: have the chrome dev summit videos not been put on youtube? I wanted to catch up but :(
<hatch> rick_h_: not sure I haven't seen anything yet
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, found the 'live stream' day one which is an 8hr video
<bac> hi frankban, i qa'd matt's branch and landed it.  i did note some issue but wasn't sure whether they were blockers for the branch.  it moves us forward.
<bac> s/issue/issues/
<frankban> bac: yes I saw that, thank you! we have cards for setting up ssh keys and the envs.yaml file. Matt's branch is just the first step, so I guess that's ok. time for two reviews?
<bac> frankban: sure
<frankban> bac: thanks. quick one: https://codereview.appspot.com/30810043. more complex one: https://codereview.appspot.com/30760043
<marcoceppi> Good morning everyone o/ I'm curious how the sandbox mode/simulator mode works in the gui. I'd like to leverage portions of it for a personal project (maintaining fake juju status in javascript), is it relatively pluggable or is it highly atuned to the gui?
<rick_h_> marcoceppi: hmm, so it'd be big. It kind of work together with the db setup, the JS models. 
<rick_h_> marcoceppi: we could probably get a hangout to walk through it sometime. 
<marcoceppi> rick_h_: cool
<bac> frankban: make check shows incomplete test coverage
<bac> frankban: on your first review
<frankban> bac: that's fixed by the second branch in review 
<bac> frankban: ok
<bac> frankban: does quickstart attempt to open the user's default browser or firefox?  my default is chromium (as set in 'System Info') but QS opens FF.
<frankban> bac: it uses webbrowser.open, so it should be the default browser, for some definition of "default"
<bac> huh
<frankban> bac: http://docs.python.org/2/library/webbrowser.html#webbrowser.open
<gary_poster> hi everybody
<frankban> morning gary_poster 
<gary_poster> :-)
<frankban> guihelp: anyone available for another review of https://codereview.appspot.com/30760043 (quickstart)?
<gary_poster> I will after mail skim if no one else takes it
<bac> frankban: i was just about to do it.  or are you asking for a second?
<frankban> bac: I was asking for a second. thank you
 * bac continues
<frankban> thanks gary_poster 
<gary_poster> welcome
<rick_h_> I can look frankban 
<frankban> rick_h_: cool thanks
<frankban> gary_poster: ^^^
<gary_poster> ok cool thanks rick_h_ and frankban 
<rick_h_> the coffee it brewed and it's friday!
<gary_poster> :-) yay
<gary_poster> ok email is not exactly tamed, but the wild animals are at least identified
<rick_h_> shoot to kill!
<gary_poster> heh
 * frankban biab
<bac> rick_h_: you are doing frankban's review?  i'm starting QA so you can skip that part
<rick_h_> bac: yes, thanks
<benji> why are there paths that start with "./" all over the charm Makefile?
<hatch> save the dots
<rick_h_> they look cool!
<bac> hatch: ha!
<hatch> :D
<benji> pfft
<hatch> the worst part of tests is fixing them all
<frankban> rick_h_: thanks for the review. I'd like charms.py to be replaced (or part of) a future bundles/charms library that the dpeloyer, charmworld and quickstart can share. But for the time being, I'd prefer for quickstart validation to avoid connecting to the network
<antdillon> rick_h_, Hey Rick, you about?
<rick_h_> frankban: ok, that's kind of what I was thinking as well. Maybe just a bug to mark integration that needs to occur?
<bac> rick_h_: i am not going to do frankban's QA step 3 as it will take too long with my connection.  have a go at it if you want.
<rick_h_> antdillon: yep
<rick_h_> bac: ok, will try to go do that in a minute then. 
<antdillon> rick_h_, Do you know if there is more api calls to manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/?
<rick_h_> antdillon: http://charmworld.readthedocs.org/en/latest/api.html
<antdillon> rick_h_, Awesome thanks
<rick_h_> antdillon: regenerating the docs as they've not been updated for a couple of weeks, so maybe refresh in 5
<rick_h_> antdillon: let me know if you've got any specific questions/api stuff you're looking for
<antdillon> rick_h_, Cool thanks
<frankban> rick_h_: sounds good. re changing the name of the check_charm_url utility. sounds good, maybe print_charm_url?
<antdillon> rick_h_, Just wanna pull a specific charms details in a call
<rick_h_> frankban: yea, I mean maybe that's just me. I didn't have a great alternative. I just was confused for a minute. 
<frankban> rick_h_: ok, I'll make the changes, and also add a XXX in charms.py e.g. reuse code (whenever we have reusable code)
<bac> frankban: review and most QA done
<rick_h_> antdillon: ok, so that's just https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/charm/precise/mysql
<antdillon> rick_h_, Yep got it, thank man, the docs are col
<antdillon> cool*
<rick_h_> antdillon: awesome, api ftw
<frankban> bac: thanks
<rick_h_> bac: so I just need to do #3 to complete qa?
<bac> rick_h_: that is correct
<rick_h_> frankban: ok, #3 is good, qa is all ok
<frankban> rick_h_: great, thank you!
<hatch> uuuuuuugh someone else wana fix these tests for me? Free coffee available in your kitchen if you do!
<rick_h_> hatch: oh come on, it's an oppertunity. I'll let you take it
<rick_h_> you broke it you bought it :P
<frankban> rick_h_: how much time is required in your opinion to produce that kind of python charms/bundles validation library? the number of projects that can use that is very high: the guiserver, proof, quickstart, charmworld...
<rick_h_> frankban: well most of it's written, so it's a matter of refactoring it out into a library and getting it back into all the tools. Maybe a week if all goes well? 
<frankban> juju-deployer...
<rick_h_> Maybe that's optimistic
<hatch> haha darn, well I tried
<rick_h_> to pull the library out is definitely ok in under a week, it's the work to get it into the each of those tools (and there's a few as you note) and some we don't control
<rick_h_> frankban: but yea, I think we all want to see this happen. The proof stuff, validation, etc. It's a hefy chunk we keep replicating. 
<rick_h_> and if those rules change it's going to suck for us
<frankban> rick_h_: yeah, maybe two weeks/one developer. yes, I don;t expect charms to change so often, but bundles definitely can
<rick_h_> frankban: yea, but validation can get better. And with two stable releases coming I figure there will be some shake up. I'm not sure what that will end up being yet though. 
<rick_h_> I'm still curious if charms will be like py3. People try to write a charm that just works on each LTS and submit it to both paths, or do two different charms and sync changes when required. 
<frankban> rick_h_: describe_gui_charm_url... how does it sound?
<rick_h_> frankban: hmmm, I think check is ok now that I look at it more. Sorry. I mean it's printing, some validation, and logging. I guess if I had hit the utils.py file first maybe it wouldn't have seemed so out of place
<frankban> rick_h_: from the charm author perspective, I don't think precise and trusty have too many differences (compared to py2/py3). E.g. we need to port the gui charm, and I guess we won't require a second code base for that
<frankban> rick_h_: great, I'll leave check
<hatch> bac: if you wouldn't mind, could you fire open Safari and let me know what version you have?
<bac> hatch: that's a very personal question.  the answer of which is Version 7.0 (9537.71)
<bac> (i think that is a Star Date)
<hatch> thanks for opening up to me, Starfleet thanks you
<bac> anything else?  shoe size? bagel topping preference?
<frankban> :-)
<hatch> lol nope that's it, I just needed to know what the most recent safari was on mavericks
<hatch> I don't have mavericks installed yet
<bac> frankban: are you going to get to bug 1252295 today?  if not i'd like to take it.
<_mup_> Bug #1252295: guiserver bundle deployment error is empty <juju-gui (Juju Charms Collection):Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252295>
<frankban> bac: the guiserver part of that bug is fixed: we now return something like "no further details available". I think hazmat is working on the deployer part (prevent the deployer to return exceptions without messages)
<bac> frankban: ah, ok.
<frankban> bac: FWIW, bug 1251420 could be interesting
<_mup_> Bug #1251420: reporting an error from the environment isn't formatted well <juju-gui (Juju Charms Collection):Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251420>
<gary_poster> jujugui call in 10
<gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
<gary_poster> hatch, yo yo yo
<marcoceppi> gary_poster: got a few mins for a g+?
<gary_poster> marcoceppi, on call will ping
<marcoceppi> gary_poster: ack, thanks!
<frankban> benji: still lbox problems?
<benji> frankban: yep: "error: Failed to run "bzr push": exit status 3"
<benji> frankban: this is the right branch for the charm trunk, correct? bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-gui/charms/precise/juju-gui/trunk/
<frankban> benji: yes
<frankban> benji: is this lbox propose? anything useful from -debug?
<benji> yep, "lbox propose"; I'll do a -debug run now
<benji> 2013/11/22 11:11:44 Branch URL inferred: lp:~benji/charms/use-known-pip
<benji> that doesn't look right
<benji> oh: bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~benji/charms/use-known-pip/": : Project 'charms' does not exist.
<frankban> benji: yes so lbox pushes the branch for you, and that's not the right location. 
<benji> frankban: any hints as to a good location?
<frankban> benji: I use this entries in my ~/.bazaar/locations.conf: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6459507/  you can adjust them for your needs
<benji> frankban: ah! thanks; I bet I lost a similar entry in my bzr decimation 
<frankban> benji: I guess lbox infers the location only if not set, so a quick fix could also be a push --remember, but the location file is a cool thing (I really hope git will have something similar) and automates things 
<benji> yep, it is nice
<benji> grrr, lbox, it is OK if the first line of a commit message is over 50 characters!
<benji> it's like someone created an evil AI that loves haiku
<frankban> :-)
<benji> frankban: do you have time to look at the fruit of my lbox, er labor?  https://codereview.appspot.com/31000043/
<frankban> benji: sure
<gary_poster> marcoceppi, hey.  ready.  you have a hangout or do you want me to make one?
<marcoceppi> in a meeting gary_poster, will ping when I'm avail again :)
<hatch> jcastro: can you take a look at my ghost charm and let me know if there is anything I need to do to get it approved? Or should I just push it to my name and then we can 'upgrade' it at that point?
<gary_poster> marcoceppi, :-) k
<hatch> so...many....tabs
<marcoceppi> gary_poster: okay! https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpj7q9igbirg4g5ov1ifeups?hl=en
<jcastro> hatch, push it to your name, then file a bug against charms asking something like "I am ready for review!" and then assign the ~charmers team to the bug
<jcastro> that'll put you in the queue
<hatch> jcastro: ok cool, so should I blog about it once it's up or wait for charmers?
<jcastro> I prefer to wait for charmers because the namespace is cleaner rather than ~jorge/blah
<jcastro> but up to you
<jcastro> it it works might as well blog it, post it on their forum
<jcastro> and say something like "as soon as I pass peer review it'll just be `juju deploy ghost`, but in the meantime, GO DEPLOY THE WORLD." or something
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> hatch: there was a guy at CHC working with ghost and I mentioned your charm in the wings
<rick_h_> hatch: kind of cool, he's a ghost fan
<hatch> jcastro: ok cool I'll make sure it proofs perfect this weekend and create a bug for it so that the review can be quick
<hatch> rick_h_: oh cool - I would like some other users input into what additional features I should add
<gary_poster> jujugui, charm review request #1 of in-progress effort: https://codereview.appspot.com/31020043
<frankban> gary_poster: taking a look
<gary_poster> thanks frankban 
<gary_poster> this is a follow-on to the branch frankban is reviewing, but I won't ask for a review until the first one is done: https://codereview.appspot.com/30980044 .  In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have made the review request.
<gary_poster> I mean, in rietveld
<bac> hey rick_h_ you know a particular bundle that induces the error we discussed?
<rick_h_> bac: hmm, I think it was fixed. It was due to a bundle have constraints defined as cpu-cores=''
<rick_h_> so the '' blew it up
<rick_h_> since it needed to be an int 
<bac> rick_h_: ok, cool, i'll sabotage one of mine
<frankban> jujugui, jcastro: new alpha version (0.4.2) of juju quickstart released in the quickstart beta ppa. It includes: support for setting up juju-core packages, local provider support, ability to reuse an existing environment/juju-gui, incrementing bundle deployments count, customized gui charm url validation.
<rick_h_> frankban: woot! I was just looking to use the lxc support this morning
<gary_poster> awesome!  thanks frankban 
<hazmat> frankban, nice
<bac> in case anyone else needs it: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:juju-gui/quickstart-beta
<gary_poster> I'll copy it over to juju/stable
<frankban> thanks bac 
<jcastro> hey frankban
<jcastro> are you going to announce on the list? 
<jcastro> I am working on the quickstart /bundle docs this afternoon
<jcastro> and was going to announce them too
<frankban> jcastro: EOD for me, could you please give it a try and include it in your announcement? 
<benji> frankban: thanks for the review
<frankban> benji: welcome
<jcastro> ok!
<frankban> thanks jcastro 
 * gary_poster intends to take a late lunch and then realizes he has worked all the way through to next meeting.  Happens more often than it should.  :-/
<jcastro> gary_poster, yeah I do that sometimes, sucks.
<jcastro> (I am eating lunch now and it's 2 oclock, heh)
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> yeah I may need to do that in next mtg. :-) ...stepping away to kitchen briefly...
<frankban> gary_poster: review done, thank you and have a nice weekend all
<gary_poster> thanks frankban!
<gary_poster> have a great weekend
<hatch> crazy that anandtech still doesn't have a new rMBP 15" review
<hatch> 188 unread blogposts....who wants to help me read?
<hatch> I'm not sure if anyone else is a Digital Blasphemy member but this one is just awesome http://digitalblasphemy.com/preview.shtml?i=traveller2k131
<hatch> ok down to 157, and done fooding
<jcastro> oh dang, forgot to ask frankban
<jcastro> gary_poster, is the new release of quickstart in your PPA something we should copy over to the juju PPA?
<gary_poster> jcastro, already done.  
<jcastro> oh well, that covers that!
<gary_poster> :-)
<bac> has anyone installed the juju-quickstart from the new beta ppa?  the package says 0.4.2 but --version say 0.4.0
<bac> s/say/says/
<bac> s/say/says/
<bac> s/n say/n says/
<bac> s/saysss/says/
<bac> gary_poster: ^^
<gary_poster> bac, I have not.  and lol at the IRC substitutions.  doesn't sound too bad.  Maybe shoot a note to peeps and frankban about it?
<gary_poster> I bet it is a release checklist thing
<bac> gary_poster: well, i know he updated the version file in his latest branch.  so i fear the PPA just didn't get everything he expected.
<gary_poster> bac, oh. :-/
<gary_poster> bac, you feel like kicking the machinery, or shall I investigate?
<bac> in fact it probably doesn't have my deployment counter b/c i know i set it at 0.4.1
<gary_poster> :-(
<gary_poster> 0.4.2-1
<gary_poster> ?
<bac> gary_poster: i'll go poke at it.
<gary_poster> thank you
<bac> gary_poster: false alarm.  i had an old qs install in my /usr/local/lib
<bac> PPA is a-ok
<gary_poster> bac, oh, great
<gary_poster> thank you for investigating, bac
<hatch> man I love it when tests fail but the real world works just fine
<hatch> it just brightens up my day!
<gary_poster> ;-)
<rick_h_> trade you, you can hack this up in shell and ruby together and intertwined :)
<gary_poster> heh, I wondered about that when I skimmed the code. heh and :-/
<hatch> RUby? You're implementing our CI in RUBY?
 * hatch storms away
<hatch> :P
<rick_h_> yea, and there's a long running fork that's submitted 6 pull requests with no merges back in. So now I've forked the fork and updating it to work wheee
<rick_h_> hatch: :)
<rick_h_> why not, it's one of the few lang's I don't have in my github profile
<rick_h_> COMPLETED
<hatch> lol
<hatch> Github thinks I have Ruby in my Ghost charm, does that count?
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> and curses for comments not being part of JSON so this whole config file has not one comment on wtf a 'repo_to_pull_id_param' is
<hatch> there are really no other options?
<rick_h_> write one
<hatch> I actually have no idea what your doing....so SURE, it shouldn't take that long
<rick_h_> lol
<gary_poster> yeah.  that was my worst case for this :-/
<rick_h_> github has an api right? and there's only 7 python libraries that claim to work with it. 
<gary_poster> heh
<hatch> well there are always node ones too :)
<rick_h_> yea, because I've got 99 problems but npm not working aint one
<hatch> lol
 * gary_poster laughs/cries
<rick_h_> I'd keep quite on the node for a while. I've been burned three times lately and I'm a bit cranky
<hatch> hey that's the package managers fault
<hatch> they should use juju
<rick_h_> and what package did you want me to use? :P
<hatch> actually if it makes you feel any better, if npm is down we can't install the GUI anyways
<hatch> so really, it's like an early failure system
<rick_h_> "node and npm, node and npm, go together like a fish and water ...you can't have one without the other" 
<gary_poster> can too
<gary_poster> from charm/packaged bits
<rick_h_> yea, as long as it's the current release
<rick_h_> trigger config-changed and you're done for
<hatch> shh I'm trying to make a point here
<hatch> there is no room for logic here
<gary_poster> lol
<rick_h_> sorry, forgot it's not the canadian way
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> I think it gets too cold for logic up there
<hatch> and it's not even "cold" yet
<hatch> only -20
<gary_poster> uh-oh, the Michigan attacks Canada
<rick_h_> oh come on, you know that canada is the 51st state, we've just not bothered to claim it yet. 
<gary_poster> ooh, ruby has made rick aaaaangry!
<hatch> we aren't worried, you couldn't the handle universal health care and a stable banking system - many would go crazy
<gary_poster> lol.  there we go, fight! fight! fight!
<hatch> hahaha
<rick_h_> don't make me pull out my trump card
<rick_h_> now's not a good time...I'll go all Mayor on you
<gary_poster> yeah, low blow, I dunno
<rick_h_> things must just run themselves because that mayor isn't running much...
<gary_poster> :-)
<hatch> You're a little to close to Detroit to be bringing things down to the city management level
<hatch> :D
<gary_poster> lol
<rick_h_> hey, we've got the auto industry to blame. That mayor is all on the voters 
<hatch> have you ever been to Toronto? Everyone there likes to party
<hatch> lol
<rick_h_> there we go, canada could be our second most populated state
<rick_h_> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+canada+vs+population+of+california+vs+population+of+texas
<hatch> and the only one not in the red?
<hatch> lol
<gary_poster> Texas is red a different way
<hatch> haha oh right
<rick_h_> well, I got the script to run once manually from the cli on the jenkins server. Going to call success and run away. 
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> have a great weekend rick_h_ 
<rick_h_> you guys as well!
<hatch> haha
<hatch> have a good one
<rick_h_> even candadians
<hatch> cya
<hatch> I think I managed to break every inspector overview test...
<hatch> that must be some kind of record
<gary_poster> heh
<hatch> rick_h_: oh hey if you pop back, get your buddy there to file any feature requests on the ghost gh repo if he has any
<bac> gentlemens i bid you adieu and anon.
<gary_poster> bye bac.  have a great weekend
<bac> will do
<hatch> cya bac
<gary_poster> have a great weekend all
<hatch> you too gary_poster|away cya
 * hatch last person in the office *turns the tunes way up*
<hatch> jujugui if anyone feels like they want to do a deep and detailed qa this weekend https://codereview.appspot.com/31190043/ :)
#juju-gui 2013-11-23
<hatch> marcoceppi thanks for the elaboration on the askubuntu question :)
<marcoceppi> hatch: np! it was a good answer, I just wanted to clarify a few things
<hatch> his q does bring up a valid issue which others may be wondering
<hatch> I wonder how we can make that clearer to others 
<marcoceppi> hatch: I consider it a good problem to have
<marcoceppi> it gives us the opportunity to teach users best practices for "stable" server deployments
<marcoceppi> as well as inform people about LTS and why the LTS is a strong story
<hatch> marcoceppi yeah good point
#juju-gui 2013-11-24
<huwshimi> Morning
<hatch> hey huwshimi 
<hatch> all done vacations?
<huwshimi> hatch: Hey. Yep, back as of this morning
<hatch> awesome, have a good time off?
<hatch> I can't believe it
<hatch> s been two weeks already
<huwshimi> hatch: Heh, yeah, me too!
<huwshimi> hatch: I did, busy, but all things I wanted to do :)
<hatch> hah good good
<huwshimi> hatch: My Air arrived on Friday evening, using it now
<hatch> did you install Ubuntu on metal?
<huwshimi> hatch: Yep, took about 20 mins to get the whole things set up. It dual boots, but I don't really ever boot into Mac
<hatch> awesome
<hatch> I just upgraded to mavericks and it's a mess so I'm cleaning up HD space so that I can dual boot on my mini
<hatch> huwshimi was it simply just installing it or were there some 'gotchas' ?
<huwshimi> hatch: I just installed and everything worked except the webcam. Haven't tried to get that working yet.
<hatch> oh very cool
<huwshimi> hatch: Hey, thanks so much for fixing up the dropdown stuff, am just taking a look now.
#juju-gui 2014-11-17
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> kadams54: morning, did a QA on your branch and linked some screenshots
<kadams54> k
<rick_h_> kadams54: be cool if you and hatch could look into it please
<kadams54> rick_h_: my understanding is that highlighting a service that's not related to anything should hide everything else.
<rick_h_> kadams54: ok, it seemed different
<rick_h_> kadams54: so I thought it was odd
<rick_h_> kadams54: if that's expected then qa ok
<kadams54> Well, QA is not OK :-\
<hatch> rick_h_: where there any errors in the console?
<kadams54> The behavior in the other screenshots is not good
<kadams54> Highlighting should hide everything not directly related
<kadams54> Including services that aren't related at all.
<kadams54> So I'm investigating that.
<kadams54> Getting a real AWS env setup
<hatch> kadams54: does lxc not work for you? It's usually way faster than aws :)
<kadams54> hatch: I work in OS X, so I'd have to fire up a VM and then run LXC in the VM.
<hatch> ohhh 
<kadams54> I've tried before but stuff like networking setup gets tricky
<hatch> I found that running the parallels vm with ubuntu is considerably less buggy than using vagrant 
<kadams54> vagrant or virtualbox?
<hatch> the vagrant bugs are very odd too....like phantomjs crashing with no error
<hatch> I didn'tlike virtual box, parallels does a much better job 
<kadams54> vagrant supports multiple providers, seems like you ought to be able to run it over parallels
<hatch> well if you have parallels there isn't much point in running vagrant heh, just run the whole os
<kadams54> https://github.com/Parallels/vagrant-parallels
<hatch> (although parallels does support vagrant images)
<kadams54> I'd much rather use vagrant's stripped down OS and easy provision/reprovision.
<hatch> yeah I tried that but I couldn't resolve the bugs
<kadams54> rick_h_, hatch: there was a bug fix that had been merged to develop in a separate PR. I've rebased that into this branch.
<hatch> cool
<hatch> kadams54: I've added a few review comments
<rick_h_> kadams54: ok
<kadams54> rick_h_: I think the bug fix I merged in addressed the problem you were seeing
<kadams54> https://ec2-54-148-167-86.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/
<rick_h_> kadams54: ooh ok cool
<hatch> kadams54: so you don't get phantom crashing with no error when running in vagrant?
<kadams54> yes, I do
<hatch> oh ok good - glad it's not just me heh
<hatch> well not good
<hatch> but
<hatch> you know
<hatch> )
<hatch> :)
<kadams54> I mostly test in browser and use lots of .onlys
<hatch> heh painful
<hatch> on that front
<hatch> jasmine 2.1 will have fit and fdescribe 
<hatch> which is like only
<hatch> rick_h_: kadams54 I filed the agent_state_data bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1393452
<mup> Bug #1393452: agent_state_data isn't populated when service units fail on start <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393452>
<kadams54> rick_h_: Looks like I just need your OK on QA to land 658.
<rick_h_> kadams54: ok, go ahead. If the bug fixed it then I'll trust that.
<rick_h_> kadams54: let me know when that lands and I'll start the release process
<kadams54> Will do
<kadams54> hatch: thanks for getting that bug files
<kadams54> *filed
<hatch> it'll probably get marked lower than low since I think we added it in the first place lol
<hatch> but at least there is a record somewhere :D
<rick_h_> lol
<hatch> kadams54: this but in your branch was the second one that had been fixed in develop but not in the branch - maybe we should make a 'rule' to rebase develop in before pushing?
<hatch> I never do heh, but it might be a good idea going forward :)
<rick_h_> hatch: well the merge thing does that
<rick_h_> hatch: it's kind of rare that things are so tied on each other like that
<rick_h_> hatch: I think it's just because we're at the release edge
<hatch> right - but your qa wouldn't have failed if that had been done
<hatch> yeah that's true
<rick_h_> hatch: right, but it's ok. The work on that vs the work of always rebase :/
<kadams54> Yeah, in this case there was no excuse.
<rick_h_> I think it's ok as is, but something I should have kept in mind during QA
<kadams54> I did the bug fix branch
<kadams54> I did both branches.
<kadams54> I should have realized that I needed to rebase one into the other before sending the second off to QA
<kadams54> I blame it on being excited and relieved at finally being done :-)
<hatch> haha 
<hatch> we hope ;)
<kadams54> Generally I try to sync my develop with remote and rebase onto latest before sending off to QA.
<hatch> it is pretty awesome when you hve a large environent
<hatch> highlight, fade, highlight, fade
<rick_h_> kadams54: :) go enjoy some nice maint cards, no pressure, just little things without big picture pains
<kadams54> lol
<kadams54> Can't relax yet. The merge build is still in progress.
 * rick_h_ is optomistic today
<hatch> haha
<hatch> it's snowing fluffy snow
<hatch> that's a good sign
<perrito666> rick_h_: you feel like things can go in eight different ways?
 * hatch can read snowflakes 
<perrito666> rick_h_: ah, no that would be octomistic :p
<hatch> lol
<rick_h_> hah
<perrito666> yours is more like "things can go in a very optical way"
<hatch> wouldn't that be opticalistic? 
<hatch> kadams54: yay tests passed
<rick_h_> lol
<hatch> kadams54: one good thing came out of your branch - I verified that we can use Array.isArray() in all our supported browsers
<hatch> one less YUI method :)
<hatch> IE<9 pssshhhhttt
<rick_h_> lol
<hatch> this weekend I spent some time researching js module systems and loaders.....
<hatch> seriously I have no idea what people have been doing since 09
<hatch> nothing even comes close to the YUI loader
<rick_h_> hatch: :( stop, I'm still trying to get past everyone saying how we don't need YUI any more
<hatch> well there are few things in it we 'need' but I honestly can't find anything to replace the loader with
<frankban> hatch: never looked at it, but what about require.js?
<hatch> frankban: the problem with js module loaders is that they only support one type of module
<hatch> AMD, CommonJS etc
<hatch> the yui ones we can simply wrap the file in a YUI.add() and be done
<hatch> not so with these others
<hatch> and ES6 modules don't make it any better
<hatch> luca__: hey
<luca__> hey hatch 
<hatch> frankban: although AMD Is the lesser of the 3 evils :)
<rick_h_> uiteam call in 7 kanban please
<kadams54> rick_h_: 658 just landed so we can proceed with a juju-gui release
<rick_h_> kadams54: on it
<hatch> kadams54: the card that you're working on right now - we used to set attributes using d3 on the svg and then use the d3 js to alter those attributes to fade in/out
<hatch> we should be able to add/remove a class to have it use css animations and be a lot easier
<kadams54> Yeah, and you want to switch it to altering classes
<kadams54> I remember :-)
<hatch> css overrides the attribute styles which were causing issues
<hatch> oh ok cool
<hatch> I wasn't sure how much I had spewed out before :P
<hatch> rick_h_: man I want your job https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/534385415860805633 :P
<hatch> lol
<hatch> Makyo: so jealous of your yard :)
<Makyo> Just a bit of snow :)
<Makyo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbtjgxek13fdxqs/IMG_20141117_093828.jpg?dl=0
<hatch> yeah saw that on the twitters
<hatch> james doesn't mind the drive in?
<Makyo> Not too much. He's got a nicer car than I do :)
<hatch> haha 
<hatch> I'd love to move out of town but sometimes the highways are a skating rink
<Makyo> Yeah, we ran into some of that last week, but thankfully they were on top of getting them plowed.
<rick_h_> hatch: see you in standup in 2?
<hatch> sounds good
<rick_h_> hatch: hah! I want that job :P
<hatch> haha
<rick_h_> hatch: http://www.kevindangoor.com/2014/11/simplifying-javascript-projects-with-react/ for the 'lunch reading' folder
<hatch> cool I'll check it out
<hatch> this industry is love hate, love that it's always changing, hate that it's always changing :D
<kadams54> Soooooo
<kadams54> I just spent my lunch hour on the phone with DISH.
<kadams54> Because they signed up a Kathy Adams awhile back and messed up her e-mail address.
<kadams54> I ended up getting all her e-mails, including signed copies of her service agreement and other paperwork.
<kadams54> Which has home address and phone number on it.
<hatch> what's DISH?
<rick_h_> hatch: sat. tv
<kadams54> Satellite TV
<hatch> ohh
<hatch> :)
<hatch> Just because we don't have enough compile to js languages http://spiderlang.org/
<kadams54> DISH's first attempt at a fix was to change e-mail prefs so she (I) didn't receive any more marketing e-mails.
<hatch> lol
<kadams54> DISH's second attempt was to file a report on my (non-existent) account.
<hatch> haha why didn't they just call her?
<kadams54> Third attempt I got someone who removed my e-mail from her account, but because they can't make outgoing phone calls, they couldn't get the right address.
<kadams54> So I just called her and left her a very odd voicemail.
<hatch> rofl
<kadams54> Way to go DISH.
 * hatch hopes she calls you back and you become best buds
<kadams54> She might be related.
<kadams54> I grew up in Indiana and have family scattered throughout small towns and farm country
<kadams54> She happens to live in a small southern IN town that's close to where one of the family branches settled.
<hatch> ohh look at that
<kadams54> It's a common enough last name that it's not likely, but it's still kinda funny that she's from Indiana, since DISH is nation-wide in the States.
<kadams54> I was actually kinda hoping to talk with her.
<kadams54> But her VM was one of the generic "You've reached this phone number" messages that doesn't give away any personal information.
<kadams54> Which is kinda funny considering.
<hatch> haha
<hatch> "we take your privacy very serious...unless we enter in the wrong email address, at which case...well you know"
<kadams54> Note to self: make sure e-mail verification is a part of new user/customer sign up in all future endeavors. Gracefully handle failures.
<hatch> haha
<kadams54> Changing locations, back in 10 or so.
<hatch> well there is no question react is scalable now: https://twitter.com/remibecheras/status/534391509190459392 cc rick_h_
<hatch> rick_h_: Makyo what's happening with local charm icons with the new api?
<hatch> re we still returning the default icon?
<rick_h_> hatch: so the deal is we'll use the new api
<rick_h_> hatch: and we'll need to filter non-promulgated client side
<rick_h_> hatch: but we want a flag that you can turn off in the gui config ui
<hatch> right but the charm path is local
<hatch> not in the store
<rick_h_> hatch: where are we looking?
<rick_h_> oh local charm icons
<rick_h_> hatch: yea so for now it's still got to be the local one
<rick_h_> hatch: we can look to update that once we get things update down the road
<hatch> ok sounds good
<hatch> rick_h_: this is the bug that is referenced in the code around the local charms https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1202703
<mup> Bug #1202703: local charm icons are broken in GUI <charmworld:Triaged> <juju-gui:Fix Released by rharding> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202703>
<hatch> maybe you want to close the charmworld one
<hatch> or ammend or something
<rick_h_> hatch: oh, those are pulled from the env now
<rick_h_> yea, the charmworld one is nadda
<rick_h_> ok, done
<rick_h_> hatch: that's one case where that's not charmworld but the juju environment
<rick_h_> hatch: so watch out for that one
<rick_h_> man this added services feature rocks
<hatch> yeah right now it's just defaulting to manage.......static/img/charm_160.svg
<rick_h_> we need to do a screencast
<hatch> so I'll just keep that functionality
<rick_h_> hatch: right, that's the default but we added support for pulling it from the env
<rick_h_> hatch: ok
<hatch> oh did we? Was that ever implemented in the code?
<rick_h_> hatch: ye
<hatch> hmm odd I don't see that - sec I'll get you the link
<hatch> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/app/store/charmworld.js#L403
<hatch> this is called from the handlebars helper
<hatch> and others....but similar
<hatch> so I'm not sure that it was ever hooked up to go to the env for local charm icons
<hatch> at least not here
<rick_h_> hatch: I know it works or worked at one point. It's probably from somewhere else though
<hatch> ok I'll keep my eyes open but keep this methods functionality the same
<rick_h_> hatch: k
<hatch> also is ?demo=true supported? I don't see it in the api docs
<rick_h_> ugh, we missed a git tag on the last release :(
<rick_h_> hatch: no, it never worked
<hatch> lol ok
<rick_h_> hatch: it was meant to work but never completed, ignore/rip that out
<hatch> consider it ripped
<hatch> rick_h_: hmm ok so the syntax is now different heh https://api.jujucharms.com/v4/static/img/charm_160.svg is not found
<rick_h_> hatch: yea, we'll have to use a local file I think.
<rick_h_> in the gui, I think the icon is there. 
<hatch> oh ok lemme check
<hatch> it is
<hatch> :)
<hatch> rick_h_: bundle icons we are going to use a local file as well?
<rick_h_> hatch: yes
<rick_h_> uiteam new gui release uploaded, working on charm release now
<hatch> awesome
<hatch> now the question is - do we have the bundle icon locally 
<rick_h_> hatch: if not, right-click save as :P
<hatch> haha yeah just looking through the assets now
<rick_h_> kadams54-away: or hatch can either of you take 5 and get me a few nice small screenshots of the added services bar stuff for a blog post once I ge the charm released and ingested
<rick_h_> or any of you want to write up the blog post on the release youselves? I'm not greedy.
<hatch> yeah I can do both
<hatch> can I do it after this stuff? 
<rick_h_> hatch: ok, thanks. One thing to remember is the charm has the new custom port as well to mention
<hatch> like towards the eod
<hatch> yeah definitely
<rick_h_> hatch: well I'd like to read it over before release
<rick_h_> hatch: so yea, but make sure to hit me up then before you hit publish?
<hatch> ok sounds good - I just need to grab some lunch soon :)
<rick_h_> and I'll try to look after hours tonight
<rick_h_> hatch: ok
<rick_h_> ty kind sir
<rick_h_> https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/CHANGES.yaml#L24 changes
 * hatch lunching
 * rick_h_ grumbles about failing charm tests
<hatch> boo
<rick_h_> it works when I make deploy though wtf
<huwshimi> Morning
<hatch> morning huw
<hatch> heh I just broke this code and all the tests pass
<hatch> sumfing wong
<hatch> gona eod, will bbl
<rick_h_> hatch: night
<kadams54> rick_h_: how's the release going?
<rick_h_> kadams sent an email to tge list with status
<rick_h_> basically stuck and eod'ing
<rick_h_> monday is my night with thge boy
<kadams54> +1
#juju-gui 2014-11-18
<hatch> man booking trips with a group is grueling work - new startup idea.....a person who you contact to give you travel options and knows details about travel destinations
<rick_h_> hatch: like a ... travel agent ... ?
<hatch> yeah.... dot com
<hatch> travelagent.com
<hatch> awesome name
<huwshimi> hatch: terrible idea, it would never work
<hatch> no? damn
<hatch> well 80% of startups fail right? 
<hatch> this one luckaly failed early
<hatch> luckily*
<rick_h_> let the bug spam commence!
<jcastro> rick_h_, is there a way to turn off the "confirm" bottom bar?
<jcastro> I was thinking, for demo modes
<rick_h_> jcastro: there's a cheat
<rick_h_> jcastro: but not a way to turn it off right now
<jcastro> I was thinking as part of demo mode
<jcastro> like, around hour # 3 or 4 the constant confirmation gets old, heh
<jcastro> rick_h_, everything worked great at AWS btw
<rick_h_> awesome!
<rick_h_> jcastro: so for the "add to demo" buttons on jujucharms.com we skip it with a special url 'deploy-target' https://demo.jujucharms.com/?deploy-target=cs:trusty/juju-gui
<rick_h_> jcastro: but that's only for initial getting something loaded via a link or something and not really turning off the bar
<jcastro> should I just file a wishlist?
<rick_h_> jcastro: yes please. 
<rick_h_> jcastro: you're the second person to mention it now so good to look at putting it on the radar
<hatch> heh immediate mode makes a comeback 
<rick_h_> hatch: :P
<hatch> luca: I remember before you talking about wanting to go to a icon font - there have been people with issues rendering them using 'odd' sizes and because of that switching to svg's
<luca> hatch: I donât mind what we do. kadams54 and Huw were looking at the implementation and I think they said an icon font was possible.
<hatch> luca: here is one of the many posts http://mir.aculo.us/2014/10/31/icon-fonts-vs-inline-svg/
<hatch> I suppose kadams54 ^ too
 * hatch looks at blurry fonts all day thanks to Apple screwing up OSX so I'd also rather not do it in Ubuntu too ;)
<kadams54> I had not run into the even width vs. odd width thing before, good to know.
<hatch> yeah - I've never been a huge fan of custom fonts just because of the overhead of modifying them 
<hatch> but this is new to me
<hatch> too
<rick_h_> what's the icon font thing for?
<hatch> I think to replace the icon svg's 
<hatch> or pngs or something
<rick_h_> which icons?
<hatch> not sure :)
<rick_h_> heh
<hatch> I think all the ones which make sense for jujucharms and the gui
<hatch> x's arrows, lightbulb, eyeball etc
<rick_h_> ok, vs just spriting them?
<hatch> yeah or using inline svg's
<hatch> I don't remember exactly I just remember some chatter in brussels 
<rick_h_> gotcha, ok well /me ignores and carries on with the day
<hatch> new yuidoc https://github.com/yui/yuidoc/releases/tag/v0.4.0
<kadams54> changing locations
<lazyPower> rick_h_: do we have a place to file bugs against jujucharms.com now?
<lazyPower> i'm seeing breakage on the overview listings: https://jujucharms.com/data-analytics-with-sql-like/1  -   http://i.imgur.com/GYrmfY9.png
<rick_h_> lazyPower: not yet, shoot me an email?
<lazyPower> ack i'll roll that into an email
<rick_h_> ty
<rick_h_> bah we need to get this release out the door
<rick_h_> lazyPower: what browser? looks ok here so guessing we've got a browser issue. 
<rick_h_> lazyPower: also see if the QA site works please http://qa.storefront.theblues.io:6543/data-analytics-with-sql-like/1
<lazyPower> rick_h_: chrome, and it persists through a cache wipe
<rick_h_> lazyPower: hmm, ok
<lazyPower> Version 38.0.2125.122 (64-bit)
<lazyPower> same behavior on QA
<rick_h_> lazyPower: yea, shoot me an email with all the details and I'll get it filed and looked at
<lazyPower> works in firefox though
<rick_h_> yea, working in chrome 40
<rick_h_> so some combo of badness we've not seen
<lazyPower> ack, ping me when we get a bug tracker and i'll file proper bugs instead of bugging you in channel :) <3
<lazyPower> included in the email, a reload in FF brought the breakage on as well. i've included ss's for validation
<lazyPower> if you need anything more from me dont hesitate to reach out
<rick_h_> lazyPower: ty will do
<rick_h_> uiteam call in 10 kanban please
<rick_h_> kadams54: call?
<hatch> kadams54: lol I'll check that out for some lunch reading
<kadams54> hatch: it's also a fun look back at how far we've come. At the time Zeldman was still dealing with Netscape Navigator 4.0.
<kadams54> From one of the questions: "However, there are still a lot of users who run older browsers, or prefer to use text-only browsers such as Lynx."
<hatch> haha
<kadams54> Oh kneckbeards. How we love your text-based antics.
<kadams54> And then there are the parts in the interview that just want to make me cry. While answering a "banners suck, how do we make money" question:
<kadams54> "Eventually, Slashdot got into a position where it could make money, but Slashdot is true to itself and was not corrupted or changed by any commercial considerations. So it is possible to make a good thing and not blow it when the cash register starts jingling. But a lot of other sites and communities have turned to dreck when money was involved."
<kadams54> "that just make me want to cry"
<kadams54> Wow did I get dyslexic with that sentence.
<hatch> kadams54: lol 
<hatch> uiteam we have an issue with the gui release
<hatch> https://manage.jujucharms.com/api/3/charm/trusty/juju-gui-14/file/icon.svg no icons for precise version either
<jcastro> luca, ping!
<luca> jcastro: hey
<jcastro> heya, when do we expect the videos page to be insights-driven?
<luca> jcastro: soon, th community page is going live with a feed from insights I think today, the videos page hasnât been built just yet but there will be a feed on the community page
<kadams54> uiteam: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/660 (Switch to CSS for visibility effects.) is ready for reviews and QA.
<jcastro> luca, ok thanks!
<rick_h_> kadams54-away: ci hating on your again?
<rick_h_> kadams54-away: <3 this solution
<hatch> Facebook has released Flow their javascript typechecker http://flowtype.org/
<hatch> might be something worth adding to our stck
<rick_h_> why is everything 'flow' with them?
<hatch> stack
 * rick_h_ runs lalalalalalalala
<hatch> lol
<hatch> kadams54: nice branch - but that conveience method is only helpful with d3 classed() correct? 
<kadams54> Yes
<kadams54> hatch, rick_h_: You know what I like the best about this branch? It kills a test that had nested timeouts. Woot!
<hatch> right...on!
<hatch> kadams54: if it's not landed yet, maybe add a comment to it's usefulness for that method
<kadams54> You mean like this? "An object literal that can be passed to D3's classed method."
<hatch> thanks for doing this - I was worried it was going to get put into the bottomless pit called backlog
<hatch> oh lol
<hatch> yeah like that
<hatch> woops
<hatch> reading fail
<kadams54> :-)
<kadams54> I'll amend the description to mention something as well.
<hatch> oh kadams54 there are no animations here?
<hatch> jujugui lf a review and qa on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/661
<hatch> +2 -2 diff .....aww yeah
 * urulama needs to check that PR666 when it's available :) hope it includes a link to Iron Maiden song :)
<hatch> haha
<hatch> challenge accepted!
<urulama> :D
<huwshimi> Morning
<kadams54> hatch: looks like you still need reviews/QA on #661 - taking a look now.
<hatch> thanks
<hatch> kadams54: also are you planning on adding animation to those css changes?
<hatch> I noticed after it had landed that it was missing those styles
<kadams54> Yes, I'll add that back in.
<kadams54> hatch: did the old implementation have animation? I'm not that familiar with D3, but I don't see anything animation-ish when I look back at the diff.
<hatch> the animation was removed from the code because it was broken
<hatch> but pre about a week ago, it did
<kadams54> Ah, that makes me feel less bad.
<hatch> :)
<kadams54> Ah hah, found it. Duration of 400ms.
<kadams54> You realize that you've distracted me from QAing your PR, right? ;-)
<hatch> lol no problem it only needs to land before the next release :)
<huwshimi> hatch: Do you remember how we're embedding the fonts in the gui?
<hatch> index.html?
<huwshimi> hatch: We're definitively not embedding them on jujucharms.com :)
<hatch> oh so that's why the fonts are different?
<hatch> huwshimi: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/app/index.html#L45
<huwshimi> oh wait
<hatch> that's where we do it in the geeeewwwwiiii
<huwshimi> I was looking in IE and it is the correct font, it's just the aliasing threw me off for a second
<huwshimi> hatch: Are comingsoon and demo.jc deployed with different web servers or anything?
#juju-gui 2014-11-19
<hatch> huwshimi: i believe same 
<rick_h_> huwshimi: yes, comingsoon is just raw gui which demo is behind apache2 and on prodstack
<rick_h_> huwshimi: one is deployed via the charm and one is via just make devel basically
<huwshimi> rick_h_, hatch: can either of you reproduce this on anything but chromium?
<rick_h_> huwshimi: if it's not something you can fix up in a day then backlog it. 
<rick_h_> huwshimi: I've not tried to repro to be fair and when it was filed and you had hatch had thuoght about it thought it'd be a quick fix. 
<rick_h_> huwshimi: but if it's not something that's common/an issue then I'd suggest we move onto bigger things
<huwshimi> rick_h_: Well now I've dug into it a bit more I've found that I can only reproduce it in chromium and it doesn't appear to be any of the obvious things that I thought it was, but it's a bit hard to tell some of them when I can't make changes to production :)
<rick_h_> huwshimi: ok
<huwshimi> rick_h_: And that's chromium, not even chrome
<rick_h_> huwshimi: rgr
<huwshimi> rick_h_: What I don't understand is why we only hit it in production, I suspect it might be how we serve gui (Apache2), but I'm not sure which bit of config is causing the issue
<rick_h_> huwshimi: ok, we can come back and revisit it when we figure things out better. Still trying to get the dippy mojo spec to run
<huwshimi> :(
<hatch> rick_h_: hey you make it in yet?
<rick_h_> hatch: yes, how goes?
<hatch> good good - I'm thinking that I'll continue on the apiv4 stuff by building branches on branches 
<hatch> that way they are still easy to review
<hatch> but I won't be blocked by the release
<rick_h_> hatch: ok
<hatch> (they will just need to land in order)
<hatch> I can push them up to PR as well if you like
<rick_h_> hatch: let's do this. Let's get one up for review and hash on it. While that goes on jump to another bug/issue? 
<rick_h_> hatch: that export 'null' thing came up in a bug yesterday 
<rick_h_> hatch: and something we should look into
<hatch> ahh ok sounds good
<rick_h_> kadams54: what are you up to? Did you grab a new card?
<hatch> i'm just running the tests locally I'll have it pushed shortly
<rick_h_> kadams54: so we don't overlap work
<rick_h_> hatch: cool 
<kadams54> rick_h_: I'm working on getting juju alpha, setting up a new user in the env, etc.
<kadams54> I guess I should move that card over, but was unsure since it also had Makyo on it.
<rick_h_> kadams54: ah ok. I figured we'd start those next week and do some maint. clean out the rest of this week if that's ok
<rick_h_> the ecs entries, the changing a service name (/me pulls Makyo's head from it), the export/'null' issue would all be good high priority stuff to get updated
<kadams54> Got it
<hatch> rick_h_: ok it's up as a PR
<kadams54> I also have some work from yesterday that I just need to get in a card/PR and land - restoring the CSS animations now that service/relation visibility is CSS.
<hatch> switching to the null issue
<rick_h_> kadams54: ah ok cool
<rick_h_> kadams54: yea thanks, just catching up so reading the ouija board...I mean kanban board
<kadams54> lol
<hatch> haha sometimes it sure acts like it moves on its own
<kadams54> I was talking with a family member yesterday who's a paralegal with a large company.
<kadams54> He was talking about juggling 30-40 smaller tasks + 3-4 large projects and how the large projects tend to languish because he likes the sense of accomplishment of working on things that can actually get done.
<kadams54> And I was thinking "yeah, we (programmers) actually figured out a way to systematize that approach and use it to break down the larger projects"
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> though we all know when that project lane gets into our heads as well still
<rick_h_> but a lot better
<hatch> there needs to be a 'feel better' mode in the board lol
<hatch> which makes it look like there are less cards
<rick_h_> hatch: heh, well I was using the filter the other day
<rick_h_> hatch: and filtering by the type tag, so only gui, or only storefront
<rick_h_> hatch: so turn that onto your project once in a while and the boards a lot lighter
<hatch> oh that's cool if we have all the cards done properly :)
<rick_h_> I try to
<rick_h_> if you catch them not let me know
<rick_h_> or update them
<rick_h_> but yea, every card should have some 'class of service' on them by project type
<hatch> I wonder if we can make it a required field
<hatch> kadams54: this weekend you need to go through and delete some of your remote branches :P
<rick_h_> lol
<kadams54> Why?
<hatch> 30 is too many!
<hatch> I had to remove your remote because it was wrecking my autocomplete
<hatch> lol
<kadams54> uiteam: https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/663 for reviews and QA
<kadams54> hatch, rick_h_: So 663 restores animations, but TBH I don't like them.
<rick_h_> kadams54: hah, blame luca__ 
<kadams54> The relations and services transition at slightly different times
<rick_h_> kadams54: hmm ok. We'll let's review and get it up on comingsoon and then send an email to peeps and poke luca__ for feedback
<kadams54> I think to do transitions right would require some pretty complex code and the bang/questionable usability just isn't worth the improvement.
<rick_h_> and make sure if we don't like it we revert before next release
<rick_h_> kadams54: agreed, having not tried it
<rick_h_> kadams54: maybe create a follow up card for it so we make sure to check it out and see what feedback we can get
<kadams54> rick_h_: sounds like a good idea to keep visibility of it.
<kadams54> visibility on it
<hatch> thanks i'll look at it
<hatch> kadams54: AS is broken now lol
<hatch> highlight no longer works
<hatch> wait nm,
<hatch> bad cache
<hatch> :P
<kadams54> Umâ¦ yeah.
<rick_h_> uiteam call in 8 kanban please
<kadams54> Works For Me (TM)
<kadams54> ;-)
<hatch> kadams54: I think you missed the styles on the service icons
<hatch> I only see 3 here and they are in the relation class
<kadams54> Oops, you are likely right.
<hatch> :) 
<kadams54> Which would make the timing issue even worse ;-)
<hatch> lol right
<kadams54> Transitions added to services.
<jrwren> I recall some kind of changelog or history on charm pages? Where is it? https://jujucharms.com/mongodb/trusty/8
<hatch> kadams54: One small issue before I'll +1
<kadams54> hatch: Unclear what you mean by "hiding" in your comments - do you mean you're clicking on the eyeball icon?
<hatch> kadams54: so when you highlight a service the others which get hidden don't appear to fade out
<hatch> but they do fade back in
<kadams54> Ah
<hatch> do you see that too?
<kadams54> Yes, though I'm not sure why.
<hatch> my guess is that some d3 thing is setting a style
<hatch> but that's just a twag
<kadams54> I think it's more to do with display: none
<kadams54> So we apply two different styles to make it completely hidden: opacity 0, display none.
<kadams54> opacity transitions, display does not. If the browser chooses to apply the display property before opacity finishes transitioning, you get what we see.
<kadams54> Unfortunately display is not animatable. You can't specify a transition for it.
<kadams54> I'm checking to see if there's a workaround
<hatch> ahh
<hatch> that makes sense
<hatch> kadams54: why do we need display none? So that we can't interact with it probably? 
<kadams54> Yeah.
<kadams54> Otherwise it's still there, gobbling up events.
<hatch> the only way I know is with js - maybe we can add pointer events none?
<hatch> or something along those lines
<kadams54> You'd could in theory drag the invisible service block around. Clicking on it would open the inspector. So on and so forth.
<hatch> right but with pointer events none it shouldn't do anything
<hatch> essentially acting as if it was display none
<hatch> kadams54: maybe we set its height and width to 0s?
<hatch> just throwing out ideas
<hatch> haha
<hatch> I suppose that would have the same issue as display none
<kadams54> Yeah, I actually just tried that. Doesn't work because we'd have to repeat height/width 0 for all contained elements.
<hatch> did pointer events work?
<kadams54> Just setting it for the container doesn't work because the icons and whatnot inside still have height/width
<kadams54> Yeah, I think pointer-events might work
<kadams54> So the bad thing about pointer-events is that it only works in IE 11
<kadams54> What's our supported browser grid :-) ?
<rick_h_> IE10 because we know we don't work in 11 yret
<rick_h_> there was a long standing maint card to move to IE11 but we didn't get to it
<hatch> you can emulate it in i
<hatch> e 
<hatch> one sec
<kadams54> Sorry, just realized that could be taken multiple waysâ¦ the only IE version that supports pointer-events is 11.
<kadams54> All the rest of the browsers (except Opera Mini) have good support
<hatch> I think this works in IE
<hatch> filter:alpha(opacity=0);
<hatch> http://fromanegg.com/post/47412363539/transparent-links-not-clickable-in-internet-explorer
<hatch> I wrote about this a while ago
<kadams54> They're already transparent due to opacity: 0
<kadams54> Is the filter really necessary?
<hatch> I don't know - I wrote this forever ago lol
<kadams54> *sigh*
<hatch> fire up an ie vm :)
<kadams54> I have a feeling I'm going to have to fire up a VM
<kadams54> Normally I'd say "great minds" but not sure I want to apply that to this case
<hatch> haha
<hatch> you should pick up parallels you'd have had IE up by now :)
<hatch> https://github.com/kmewhort/pointer_events_polyfill/blob/master/pointer_events_polyfill.js
<hatch> unfortunately it uses jquery
<hatch> ahh here we go
<hatch> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/eternalcoding/archive/2013/01/16/hand-js-a-polyfill-for-supporting-pointer-events-on-every-browser.aspx
<hatch> says it's supported in IE10 
<hatch> kadams54: ^
<hatch> you sure it requires IE11?
<hatch> kadams54_: lemme know if you need any help with qa - I have a few IE vm's with various versions of IE
<luca__> rick_h_: kadams54_ did you need something from me about animations?
<kadams54_> luca__: Yeahâ¦ how badly do you want them? :-)
<luca__> kadams54_: which animations are we specifically talking about?
<hatch> oh he is just being melodramatic
<hatch> :P
<kadams54_> The fading that happens when a service block is faded/hidden/shown on the canvas?
<kadams54_> Hmm, that was not a question. Stupid muscle memory.
<hatch> haha
<luca__> kadams54_: I would like those animations
<kadams54_> One of the issues is that we can't guarantee that the service block and its relation lines will transition at the same time.
<hatch> kadams54_: when I was qa'ing they were identical
<hatch> are they not on your machine?
<kadams54_> I've seen some stutter under heavy load
<hatch> yeah?
<hatch> smooth as butta here
<kadams54_> There's nothing that ensures they'll happen at the same time - we're really just counting on everything happening so fast that it appears to be one giant fade.
<hatch> how do you make it under load?
<kadams54_> Run a VM :-)
<hatch> I am always in a vm
<hatch> I could try and load it up by running boinc or something I guess
<hatch> but yeah you're right there is the possibility that they could get out of sync
<hatch> not sure how likely that is though
<hatch> nothing we can do about the fading stutter if it's under load - I'd imagine then the user would be used to that type of experience :)
<hatch> as long as it's not our app causing the load
<hatch> kadams54_: I actually wonder if there is any way we could guarantee the fade at the same time - I think the only way would be to wrap the elements in the same container then fade the container
<hatch> which isn't going to happen :)
<kadams54_> We could change the implementation to ensure that the class is set on the relations and service at the same time, or at least as close as possible.
<hatch> well doesn't that happen now?
<hatch> well I suppose one or the other will happen first
<hatch> yeah that architecture change also isn't going to happen haha
<hatch> that would still only get us closer to correct - it's still possible that they would stutter during the animation
<kadams54_> TBH, I don't really know. It happens in very different sections of code: topology/service.js and topology/relation.js
<kadams54_> I'm guessing both are triggered by the show/fade/hide events
<hatch> yeah I can explain it sometime
<hatch> but essentially those modules are mixed into the topology master class
<kadams54_> So you could move things around so the class gets set on both the relations and the service element in the same portion of code.
<hatch> then update methods are called in sequence
<hatch> it's done that way because how d3 works on elements and datasets
<hatch> essentially each dataset which corresponds to a ui element is in a new module
<hatch> it makes it much easier to reason about once you see how it works. But if I were to redo this (this was done before I started) I would probably do it via some virtual dom like react
<hatch> but that's essentially how d3 works for the smaller sections
<hatch> uiteam does anyone know what will happen if a config value is "" but the GUI sets the config to null? Will juju-core set it to null or keep it as empty string?
<rick_h_> hatch: honestly, let's bring up a real env and start testing combos?
<rick_h_> hatch: maybe look at a series of 'app.db.services.item(0).... set the config to '', null, undefined, etc and see what juju says in each case
<hatch> yeah that sounds like a plan
<hatch> the level of fix required is highly dependent on the answer of that question haha 
<rick_h_> ty, know it's a pita but I think it's the only way to get a good fix in
<rick_h_> and it'll help QA a lot
<kadams54_> uiteam: the LESS mixin for dealing with CSS3 transition browser prefixes is broken. Browser support for the prefix-less version seems solid (you have to go back four versions on Safari and a couple for Android Browser). Any objections to me dropping browser prefixes and just using it straight up?
<rick_h_> kadams54_: not here no
<rick_h_> I think browsers have dropped them by now
<rick_h_> at least the ones we support have
<kadams54_> Yeah, I verified at caniuse.com
<hatch> kadams54_: were you able to come up with a solution to the display: none issue?
<kadams54_> Yes
<kadams54_> I use visibility, which is animatable
<kadams54_> And then I put the transition on a delay so it happens after the opacity finishes.
<hatch> ahh nice
<hatch> and visibility makes the events not trigger?
<kadams54_> Yes
<hatch> I did not know that.. I thought it was the opposite
<kadams54_> Visibility: hidden means the element still takes up space in the document flow
<kadams54_> But it will not respond to mouse events
<hatch> nice
<hatch> til
<kadams54_> hatch: pushed my fix - give it a whirl and let me know
<hatch> will do
<hatch> thx
<hatch> kadams54_: +1
<kadams54_> Suh-weet
<kadams54_> uiteam: I need a second +1 on https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/663
<Makyo> +1
<hatch> +2
<hatch> apparently I've had a 5 machine juju env running in the background on my laptop this week and I didn't notice
<jrwren> lxc or kvm?
<hatch> lxc's
<hatch> but that was within another parallels vm
<hatch> vmception
<huwshimi> Morning
<hatch> hey huwshimi
#juju-gui 2014-11-20
<kadams54> rick_h_: Looking to take on another cardâ¦ any suggestions?
<hatch> bahaha http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-winter-too-much-for-one-cbc-radio-listener-1.2840916
<hatch> guy just snapped
<hatch> hmmm, didn't we remove the pyjuju stuff? https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/blob/develop/app/store/env/sandbox.js#L244
<rick_h_> probably the env but not the sandbox?
<rick_h_> you did it if I recall :P
<hatch> yeah....I must have failed hard
<hatch> or I'll blame it on a bad merge
<hatch> yeah, bad merge
<hatch> created 
<hatch> a
<hatch> card
<rick_h_> uiteam call in 10ish please kanban
<kadams54_> hatch: for you: http://cl.ly/image/1h3z271n1a1e
<hatch> I don't see a -a there :P
<kadams54_> hatch: http://cl.ly/image/1w2e2H2u1u0D there, you happy now?
<rick_h_> kadams54_: :P
<rick_h_> kadams54_: sorry, tried to reply to you but you dropped off irc and such. Looks like you're good on cards?
<kadams54_> I'll need another one soon, so if you have any suggestions I'll take them.
<rick_h_> kadams54_: if you're up for it, the generating ecs entries would be one I'd love to see go through. The changing a service name validation issue is another one
<kadams54_> k
<rick_h_> kadams54_: for a lighter workout the removing the extra pyjuju code hatch found is a light weight task
<hatch> kadams54_: yeah it should be as simple as remove the code and remove the tests - you'll just want to do a bunch of sandbox qa afterwards
<TheMue> rick_h_: ping
<rick_h_> TheMue: pong
<TheMue> rick_h_: the idea I wrote about yesterday is to let users, regardless of CLI or GUI, create action arguments as yamls, e.g. when they are complex or the user want to reuse them, and let them pass then to the server
<rick_h_> TheMue: k
<TheMue> rick_h_: the CLI already has such a command, but converts the yaml a json structure the API expects for arguments
<TheMue> rick_h_: so right now the GUI would have to to the same
<rick_h_> TheMue: ok, so that command is not an api command, but purely on the client?
<TheMue> rick_h_: but when parsing the yaml on server-side both front-ends could use the parsing and validation
<TheMue> rick_h_: right now yes, the passed yaml is parsed and validated there
<rick_h_> TheMue: so the rule is, if the user is sending yaml we won't read it or touch it but pass it along
<rick_h_> JS doesn't have a good yaml support and json/jsonschema is all we have plans to interact with
<TheMue> rick_h_: and here I thought it would make sense if bith front-ends could benefit from it
<rick_h_> TheMue: fine by me
<rick_h_> TheMue: an api call to send the yaml uploaded from the client is peachy
<rick_h_> TheMue: as long as we're 100% sure the results of that, errors/etc come back to the client (GUI) in json form to be able to attach errors and the like to the form generated frmo the action's jsonschema
<rick_h_> TheMue: just like we do with charm config currently
<hatch> rick_h_: ok I believe I have resolved the issue - it's now sending null to juju, unfortunately I can't actually test that it's fixed because now postgres won't deploy at all because there are null values lol
<rick_h_> hatch: ummm, huh?
<TheMue> rick_h_: ok, will talk to bodie and john about it
<hatch> I've contacted 'stub' on irc for input so now I wait I guess
<rick_h_> TheMue: cool, let me know if you need to me to attend or help in any way
<rick_h_> hatch: ok
<TheMue> rick_h_: will do
<hatch> I actually get two errors https://gist.github.com/hatched/944c67756fcc3bf29c91
<hatch> first it can't find it, then it doens't like the config option
<hatch> hehe
<hatch> so confusing
<hatch> oh he is far far away - i'll just reply in the bug
<hatch> interestingly enough it deploys from the command line
<hatch> :/
<hatch> bah
<rick_h_> hatch: right, we're doing something. 
<rick_h_> hatch: what about null vs undefined?
<rick_h_> hatch: those are two different things in the json?
<hatch> yeah they are
<rick_h_> maybe we need to really be doing a 'juju null is a JS undefined' thing?
<hatch> I don't see how null is a necessary value in juju anyways :P
<rick_h_> doh, want to call and get my snow tires put on but the tire places phone doesn't work. Google is telling me 'it's busy' 
<rick_h_> guess there's a line up for those snow tires a bit early this year :)
<hatch> uiteam any idea why my gui deploy won't switch to a remote branch? "ValueError: u'git@github.com:hatched/juju-gui.git null-config-values': release not found"    
<hatch> it was JUST deployed via the exact same string
<hatch> in fact, I only changed the console logging option
<frankban> hatch: seems like a charm bug then
<hatch> ahhh it's running here url, filename = get_launchpad_release(project, origin, version)
<hatch> that's definitely not a lp release
<kadams54_> uiteam: I've been having problems recently with cached SVG icons in Chrome and it's to the point where it just drive me crazy.
<kadams54_> So I did this: http://cl.ly/image/0x0c1M0u2J3m
<kadams54_> Adding a cachebuster to the end of the SVG URL worked.
<kadams54_> Any reason we don't currently have cachebusters on those URLs?
<hatch> I just turn caching off
<hatch> don't ever have cache problems with the devtools open
<hatch> now when they are closed....
<hatch> well!!!
<jcsackett> kadams54_: i like it.
<kadams54_> I also have caching disabled when devtools are open, but I'd still get the wrong icons.
<hatch> very odd
<hatch> what if you use stable chrome?
<hatch> wonder if it's an issue with canary
<kadams54_> hatch: Don't know. The problem is sporadic, so I'd have to use stable Chrome for awhile until something in its SVG cache went stale.
<hatch> ahh
<kadams54_> Or maybe nothing would break and I'd just go on intentionally using less advanced devtools for a long long time
<kadams54_> And that would make me sad.
<hatch> not going to lie, I've never once needed the canary devtools
<kadams54_> Says the developer who also does not use vim
<kadams54_> I rest my case.
<hatch> and yet somehow......I get by :)
<hatch> unfortunately right now the gui charm has a bug which I need to investigate
<rick_h_> kadams54_: because for the icon to change the id has to change (new rev) and they auto cache bust themselves?
<rick_h_> kadams54_: and until the rev goes up there's no reason not to keep using the cache
<kadams54_> Except that we've seen caching issues pop up in both Chrome and Safari with theseâ¦
<kadams54_> Where all of a sudden the icon is off-center or (currently, for me) the wrong size
<kadams54_> But yeah, I see what you're saying. I'm not sure a cachebuster would really help if the number didn't change.
<rick_h_> kadams54_: well yea. I'm just explaining the " Any reason we don't currently have cachebusters on those URLs?"
<hatch> darn frankban left
<hatch> I'm a little confused as to how this ever worked in the gui (specifying a github url)
<rick_h_> hatch: it has known issues on precise
<rick_h_> make sure you're on trusty
<rick_h_> hatch: and the tests say it works in trusty
<rick_h_> the test is skipped in precise because it fails/isn't supported I think
<hatch> hmm nope deployed on trusty
<rick_h_> what are you entering? I just did this with kadam's branch on guimas the other day
<hatch> investigating
<hatch> sec
<hatch> juju set juju-gui juju-gui-source="git@github.com:hatched/juju-gui.git null-config-values"
<hatch> oh it needs to be the https url
<hatch> bleh
<rick_h_> hatch: have to use https url
<rick_h_> it can't do git because it can't do ssh?
 * hatch reading the charm source
<hatch> I have no idea - but the parse_url method in the charm requires it to be https heh
<rick_h_> hatch: try setting it to https://github.com/hatched/juju-gui.git null-config-values
<rick_h_> :)
<hatch> yeah wow....damn
<rick_h_> because the charm can't talk ssh (git@) for you
<rick_h_> not unless you want to upload your github ssh keys 
<rick_h_> hopefully that works for you now
<hatch> wow that was a huge mind blank
 * rick_h_ goes back to lunch
<hatch> I'm sure I knew that
<rick_h_> :)
<hatch> uiteam is there a way to destroy a service with units in error without spamming `juju resolved <service>/<unit>` ?
<jrwren> hatch: not afaik :(
<hatch> jrwren: is there reasoning behind this? 
<hatch> or just a feature not yet implemented?
<jrwren> hatch: why would any unit ever be in error? :)
<hatch> lol
<hatch> oh you're HILARIOUS 
<jcsackett> hatch: juju destroy-service --force?
<jcsackett> not sure if that has a force on it or not.
<hatch> jcsackett: not an option according to the help
<jcsackett> well damn.
<jrwren> if you are using a reasonably modern version of juju you can for killer in $( status --format tabular | awk /magic/  ) ; do juju destroy $killer ; done
<jrwren> or some such
<hatch> haha 
<kadams54> FYI, seems like comcast has a cable outage
<hatch> I am surprised this isn't a real issue for larger environments
<hatch> kadams54:  I thought that comcast was always out :P
<kadams54> Going to see if I can find another location with an up connection.
<jrwren> hatch: real larger deployments don't error.
<hatch> the way you bounce on and offline
<hatch> :)
<hatch> jrwren: "real developers don't error"
<kadams54> hatch: I've had good service from them in this area.
<hatch> subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['make', '-C', '/var/lib/juju/agents/unit-juju-gui-0/charm/juju-gui-source', 'distfile', 'BRANCH_IS_GOOD=true', 'HOME=/root']' returned non-zero exit status 2
<hatch> yup it's time for lunch
<hatch> later
<jcastro> rick_h_, you home or at the sprint?
<rick_h_> jcastro: home
<hatch> kadams54: does chrome canary auto update the websocket frames without having to click 'ws' again?
<hatch> That feature alone would make switching worth it :)
<hatch> teslanick: ahoy!
<teslanick> hatch: ahoy-hoy
<kadams54> hatch: don't know
<hatch> after what felt like 100 failed deploys the null config issue appears to have been resolved
<hatch> rick_h_: we now send `null` through the ws and it comes back as `undefined` lol....oh boy
<hatch> BUT it appears to work
<teslanick> "Null" types per language:  JS: 2.  Everyone Else: 1.  Haskell: 0.
<hatch> lol
<hatch> teslanick: so this one is extra special, it goes YAML > Python > JSON > JS > JSON > GO
<hatch> who knows what it comes out as at the end :)
<hatch> at least now the JSON > JS > JSON part is now fixed
<hatch> look at all those failing tests *sniff* it feels so good when tests fail when they should
<teslanick> hatch: So: http://i.imgur.com/jfwcVa5.jpg
<hatch> lol exactly
<hatch> teslanick: what editor are you using these days?
<teslanick> Depending on the task: Intellij Idea, LightTable, TextMate2
<hatch> yikes
<hatch> why not just intellij all over?
<teslanick> It's slow and has stupid opinions about thinks.
<teslanick> *things
<hatch> ahh I've been thinking of giving webstorm another try...but that was my experience last I tried too
<teslanick> If I could use LightTable for everything, I would. But it's buggy and has very limited language support.
<teslanick> Though I spent a few minutes yesterday figuring out how tough it would be to make an ES6 plugin for it.
<hatch> I've been trying atom every now and again - it's still too slow compared to sublime
<hatch> not sure it'll ever be able to match the speed being written in coffeescript
<teslanick> Is CS really any slower than regular JS?
<jrwren> no, but it is still js.
<jrwren> which should be super fast given v8.
<jrwren> does atom ship a modern v8 with it? or is it node?
<hatch> I'm pretty sure it's using chrome's v8 as it's backend
<hatch> it's a massive download so it better be haha
<jrwren> hatch: REALLY!?! so its more like a chrome fork?  that is interesting.
<hatch> it's just slow doing system things, like searches
 * jrwren looks
<hatch> it has devtools and everything
<hatch> lol
<hatch> which IS pretty cool
<jrwren> hatch: its node: https://github.com/atom/atom/tree/master/build
<jrwren> hatch: which uses an old an unsupported v8 :p
<hatch> hmm
<hatch> well where does it get the devtools from?
<hatch> it must wrap it in chrome
<teslanick> IIRC, the UI is written in Chrome which communicates with a nodejs "backend" that handles native system calls etc.
<hatch> ohh that makes sense
<teslanick> s/Chrome/chromium
<jrwren> hatch: on node's use of unsupported v8 https://code.google.com/p/v8/issues/detail?id=3692#c6  
<hatch> yeah I knew that node was using an unsupported v8
<hatch> little scarry
<teslanick> As a note, the "old" version isn't that old. And V8 hasn't gotten that much faster as of late.
<teslanick> The unsupported thing is scary, I agree.
<hatch> I'm not really concerned about the speed of v8 but it's the bug fixes that can't even be rolled back
<jrwren> seems like using newer v8 would be worth it just for better harmony support
<jrwren> The version in that issue is 2+yrs old
<hatch> ahh just use Dart
<jrwren> on the desktop/server?
<jrwren> use go! :p
<rick_h_> lazyPower: fyi we're going to use https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/jujucharms.com/issues to track jujucharms.com issues and get them to the right projects
<hatch> haha yeah Go decimates Dart in serverside performance
<teslanick> Go is a crazy-fast language by design, though, right?
<hatch> Dart also creates masssssive js files when using dart2js 
<hatch> yeah it is
<lazyPower> rick_h_: thanks for the update i'll pass it on :)
<hatch> uiteam lf two reviews and two qa's for this backend change https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/664 requires real env (LXC works)
<hatch> oops I might as well remove the unused method too
<hatch> uiteam ok all done - review and qa away
<hatch> teslanick: if I were to start a new project today I'd PROBABLY use Go for the server and js for the client...
<hatch> there are just not as many modules for dart so one would have to write quite a few 
<teslanick> s/(Go|js)/clojure/
 * teslanick likes his webapps like he likes his women: full of parentheticals.
<hatch> rofl
<hatch> I really don't think that makes any sense
 * teslanick likes his webapps like he likes his summer days: homoiconic.
 * teslanick likes his webapps like he likes his politics: full of terse s-expressions.
<hatch> you got a lot of these don't you?
<teslanick>  </dadaist-humor>
<hatch> you'd use closure for the client too eh?
<jrwren> hatch: reminds me of : http://axioms.io/zen/2014-11-06-swift-go/
<teslanick> Yeah, I have a few middling-sized experiments in clojurescript UIs.
<jrwren> if I were to consider clojure, I'd skip it and use ocaml instead. :p
<teslanick> Clojure can interact really nicely with the JVM, so you get a lot of great libraries out of the box. Also, I don't think there are any (decent?) OCaml->JS compilers.
<hatch> jrwren: teslanick is a closure pusher
<hatch> jrwren: haha yeah but swift is only for one OS :)
<teslanick> The one I'm working on now has a clojure server, clojurescript front-end, and they communicate back-and-forth using a websocket.
<jrwren> hatch: the only OS that matters :p
<teslanick> (two OS's -- OS X and iOS)
<teslanick> The really big advantage of using clojure is that you can repl into both systems and build new pieces it as it runs. A little semantics around safely restarting stateful components, and you can literally build the plane while it's flying.
<jrwren> that sounds nice. I do miss a repl when using go.
<jrwren> in C# I even had a repl.
<hatch> jrwren: lol did you forget who you work for? :D
<hatch> jrwren: from your link.... """Swift was released just this year in classic Apple style: A complete surprise, with massive fanfare, and no acknowledgement that many of the ideas had been pioneered elsewhere"""
<hatch> lol!!!
<teslanick> heh
<hatch> from my limited experience with swift it does look like a pretty cool language
<hatch> maybe at I/O this year Google will tell us that Dart is supported as Dart on Android and Chrome 
<teslanick> It does look it. It's crazy that it has ARC baked in. So it's a non-garbage-collected language without explicit destructors.
<teslanick> hatch: I half expect that Apple will announce Swift for Safari/MobileSafari at the next WWDC.
<hatch> I kind of doubt it because noone uses safari :P
<teslanick> A ton of people use mobilesafari
<hatch> ok ok mobile safari
<teslanick> And they kinda-sorta share a codebase
<jrwren> hatch: yeah, that is obviously by someone who doesn't follow languages :)
<jrwren> hatch: I also am not serious about swift. I'd not want to use a close source language.
<hatch> this is true
<hatch> Dart is open source with an ECMA standarsd
<jrwren> I use safari, because everything syncs to my mobile safari. The apple convenience switched me :(
<hatch> haha - chrome does the same :)
<jrwren> hatch: so dart is an ecmascript? :)
<hatch> and I think FF did that before then
<jrwren> yup... i'd stick to FF, it is just too stupid on iOS
<hatch> ahh right becuase it's just a wrapper around safari right?
<teslanick> I just want a spec for a browser bytecode language with decent capabilities and a great GC.
<hatch> I like that guys website - so many don't use serif fonts any longer
<hatch> teslanick: asm? *snicker*
<teslanick> You snicker, but it's close-ish. The problem is that it has manual memory management.
<jrwren> yup, asm.
<jrwren> nacl?!
<teslanick> C and C++? No thanks.
<teslanick> Also not memory-managed. And pointer math?
<jrwren> go used to target nacl
<jrwren> you just want the world eh? :p
<hatch> I thought Google dropped nacl from Chrome
<hatch> that's why Unity is now compiling C# > C++ > asm.js
<hatch> for the web
<teslanick> You have to enable nacl from chrome://flags
<hatch> hmm I was sure they were saying their plugin will no longer work because it was removed - maybe it's essentially useless if random joes have to enable it manually
<hatch> uh oh, something bad happened in the apple/unity world https://twitter.com/MattRix/status/535542224164225024
<jrwren> huh, too bad, I thought nacl was cool.
<hatch> http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/no-nacl-in-unity-4-3.210450/
<jrwren> hatch: well that is waht they get, they should pay xamarin.
<hatch> who?
<jrwren> unity, if they want to be in app store in those months.
<hatch> I thought it was Apple who needed to pay....I'm so confused 
<jrwren> hatch: nah, its Unity.
<hatch> ahhh 
<jrwren> Unity uses mono.
<hatch> they should just switch from C# to Go
<hatch> ;)
<jrwren> Mono is open source, much of it MIT, but runtime is GPL. GPL can't go into app store, and so requires a different license, this is how Xamarin makes $$$
<hatch> wait...GPL can't go into the app store? 
<jrwren> correct.
<hatch> why not?
<jrwren> everything in app store is statically linked.
<hatch> oh haha
<jrwren> you can't statically link to GPL libraries wtihout still being GPL.
<jrwren> so... you can be GPL in app store but your app would need to be GPL too.
<jrwren> I wrote that very poorly at first. sorry.
<jrwren> GPL can be, but apps using GPL libraries cannot be, because, linking.
<hatch> licensing is complicated 
<huwshimi> Morning
<hatch> morning huwshimi
<teslanick> It seems like statically linking vs. dynamically linking is a technical distinction, not a legal one. But really, the GPL is awful.
<hatch> I wonder what license I picked
<hatch> GPL 3
<hatch> is that any better?
<hatch> :)
<hatch> https://github.com/hatched/ghost-charm/blob/master/copyright 
<teslanick> BSD always seemed like the "best" open source license. It should just be: "BSD License DGAF"
<hatch> I just want one that says "here, take this, use this, no I don't offer warranty"
<hatch> and preferably "pr's accepted" :P
<hatch> hmm I'm not having any luck getting these spurious ci issues to stop
<rick_h_> hatch: firewall ports aren't open I bet
 * rick_h_ checks sauce videos
<rick_h_> hatch: shoot an email to bac/jcsacket that we need the ports opened up for 8888 and 8889 for gui landings so that saucelabs can connect
<rick_h_> hatch: note that in the sauce videos no html ever loads
<hatch> ahh I didn't even think of that being the issue
<hatch> will d9o
<jrwren> hatch: CC0 license for you.
<hatch> maybe I'll write a new license
<hatch> the FTL license "F'it just Take'it License" 
<hatch> lol
<jrwren> hatch: I assume you know about the WTFL.
<jrwren> http://wtflicense.com
<hatch> nope but I do now
<hatch> lol
<hatch> WTFL 2.0 for me
<hatch> :D
<hatch> I like how nothing else on the page works
#juju-gui 2014-11-21
<hatch> I think jenkins is broken - I can't log in 
<hatch> annnnd it works
<hatch> of course
<rick_h_> hatch: :) 
<hatch> I honestly tried to log in about 7 times with it just returning to the login screen
<hatch> (man I have issues with login screens today)
<hatch> *sigh* ci hung on npm
<hatch> so....yeah all ci builds are hanging on npm now
<rick_h_> hatch: ugh looking
<rick_h_> is npm down?
<hatch> just says degraded performance on one of their nodes
<rick_h_> probably the one they've let us touch :P
<hatch> but I thought that we use an internal cache on ci?
<rick_h_> but we'ved got a new CI :)
<hatch> ohh right....damn
<hatch> maybe degraded performance to them means 'not working' :)
<hatch> rick_h_: it would also hang like this if it couldn't get outside the network
<hatch> maybe some ports are still closed
<rick_h_> the CI machine can get to the outside network. it's things getting in that's firewalled
<rick_h_> uiteam call in 10 kanban please
<kadams54> uiteam: for those outside the the States, here's an introduction to the craziness that is Black Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dIBL4tYQPI
<rogpeppe> kadams54: erm, why?
<hatch> lol wow
<kadams54> rogpeppe: Such an interesting question.
<rogpeppe> kadams54: do all the shops have a sale that day?
<kadams54> rogpeppe: Superficially, the stores typically offer deep (>50%) discounts on popular items, such as electronics.
<hatch> and then keep o ther things at the same price and pretend they are marked down and idiots buy them anywayas
<rogpeppe> kadams54: and i guess it's self perpetuating because if one store stops doing it, the others win
<hatch> friend of mine used to work for best buy and he said they would make a fortune that day
<hatch> because of all the people buying the regular priced stuff
<kadams54> rogpeppe: On a deeper level, I kinda wonder how much this is large corporations preying on lower income people, in much the same way that rent-to-own or cash advance businesses do.
<kadams54> *how much of this
<rogpeppe> kadams54: isn't that what they do all the time anyway?
<kadams54> Black Friday sorta amps things up to 11
<kadams54> Much like a rent-to-own, the sales seem to put luxury items within reach, hiding the true costs.
<hatch> when you say 'lower income people' you make it sound bad
<hatch> there are rich people who are also stupid and do that :)
<kadams54> True, but I'm guessing lower income brackets are disproportionately represented.
<kadams54> It would be an interesting sociological study
<hatch> no matter how many 'warning hot' labels you put on coffee you just can't protect everyone from themselves 
<hatch> :) 
<teslanick> Also, brands/products that tend to be deeply discounted are (often, but not always) low-end. e.g. Apple tends to offer Apple Store gift cards with products instead of directly marking down the prices.
<hatch> When I was buying a tv I tracked the prices for a couple months (becuase I'm a nerd) 
<jrwren> kadams54: you are probably right. When the ONLY way a person can pay for something they really want is this way, it becomes exploitive.
<jrwren> kadams54: the bigger issue is, why do people want these things so badly?
<hatch> and often the price only fluctuated by $100 but the 'off by$' fluctuated by many hundreds
<hatch> jrwren: you hit the nail on the head there
<hatch> peer pressure 
<hatch> :)
<kadams54> jrwren: Read an article in the WaPo earlier this week about Whole Foods moving into one of Chicago's poorest neighborhoods
<kadams54> The relevant quote:
<kadams54> âPrice point was the Number One, the earliest, the strongest and the longest-lasting argument,â he says of wary residents. âAnd when you started contextualizing what price point meant in comparison to a $450 hair weave, or $120 sneakers, or $60 for a fifth of alcohol, then price point is not as strong of an argument as it initially was."
<kadams54> "price point" here referring to the high price residents would have to pay for Whole Food's typical products.
<hatch> $450 hair weave?
<hatch> what in the....
<kadams54> The guy being quoted is someone who's lived in the neighborhood since 1959, so he can get away with pointing out the oddity of paying $120 for the latest Nikes while balking at $5 eggs.
<jrwren> kadams54: ha! hahahahaha.
<jrwren> truth is so sad.
<kadams54> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/14/why-whole-foods-is-moving-into-one-of-the-poorest-neighborhoods-in-chicago/
<teslanick> Well, assuming you go through a dozen eggs every two weeks, and you buy new shoes every year, they end up being about the same per-year cost
<hatch> lol except you CAN buy shoes for $10 which last the same 
<jrwren> $10? no way. $40 maybe. :p
<teslanick> Though minor fluctuations in the price of eggs would have a gigantic impact on the per-year cost.
<kadams54> teslanick: though I'd argue the eggs (and the other healthy food products) represent a much better investment for improving living standards.
<kadams54> Given the drain that poor health can be on a family's income.
<hatch> jrwren: seriously $10 shoes are easy to find
<kadams54> Apparently hatch only buys flip flops.
<hatch> payless shoes
<hatch> or whatever it's called
<teslanick> kadams54: Agreed. I'm a big fan of the initiative to double the amount of whatever-they're-calling-foodstamps-now when you use them to buy produce or food at a farmer's market.
<hatch> they aren't brand new stylish things - but if you can only afford $10 shoes then you'll just have to deal with last years styles lol
<teslanick> If you know what you're looking for, you can pick up a nice set of used bucks or some kind of leather boot for $30 that, if you treat them halfway decent, will last forever.
<hatch> when they used to have food stamps wasn't there a black market around them for buying smokes/drugs/acohol etc?
<jrwren> kadams54: who wants to improve living standards when I can buy RIMS!!! 
<kadams54> hatch: Read an article written by an African American woman awhile back on the importance of luxury items for trying to escape poverty.
<teslanick> ^
<hatch> jrwren: ROFL
<kadams54> Her point was that you can't get the decent paying jobs that might open up doors for you and your children unless you have decent looking clothes to get through the interviews.
<jrwren> that is true.
<teslanick> I would argue that some of that has been co-opted by fashion labels to unproductive ends
<kadams54> It mostly pointed out just how stacked the system is.
<hatch> I call bs on that
<jrwren> I gotta buy the luggs, so I can get dat promotion
<hatch> you can have nice/clean clothes without having to spend $200 on jeans 
<jrwren> hatch: depends on the environment of the place you are interviewing.
<kadams54> hatch: True, but that's a strawman argument.
<kadams54> Her inspiration for this article was watching her mom go out and try to land a job.
<jrwren> hatch: and when you live in that environment surrounded by poverty, you are more likely to interview at a place wiht the terribad values which we are suggesting.
<hatch> yeah ok I could see that
<jrwren> "dress for the job you want."   -- guy walks in dressed as batman
<hatch> lol!
<kadams54> So we're talking about nice dress heels, hosiery, a dress, earrings, necklace, etc.
<kadams54> Just to get a job cleaning upper class homes.
<hatch> I do recall hearing about a charity that dressed people for interviews
<teslanick> Dress for Success
<hatch> thought it was a pretty good idea
<hatch> but even then there are nice cheap clothes
<hatch> maybe it's different here - but we have places which sell second hand clothes
<hatch> some of it's pretty good for good prices
<jrwren> I considered hiding my 10 yr old car at a job interview once, because a car that old is not the norm.
<teslanick> kadams54: I read the same piece, the example is a bit dated though. A big problem is that through population self-sorting and infrastructure degradation, people in poor neighborhoods aren't even exposed to decent labor opportunities.
<hatch> haha I used to go on sales calls in my rusted out cutlass 
<hatch> it's what I had :)
<kadams54> teslanick: yeah, that's one of many systemic problems with overcoming poverty :-)
<hatch> had/could afford
<hatch> some of our poorer areas are being gentrified by the city
<kadams54> hatch: tracking down and assembling good outfits from secondhand stores is time-consuming, which you don't have when you're working three part-time jobs with no transportation.
<hatch> this is the truth
<hatch> I suppose that circles around to what teslanick said about no decent opportunities 
<kadams54> hatch: yeah, the Whole Foods article talked about how the normal process is poor neighborhood -> gentrification -> Whole Foods
<kadams54> But in this case Whole Foods comes first and they're not looking to make over the neighborhood.
<hatch> do they pay poor wages too? 
<hatch> or wages that allow people to actually live off of one job
<kadams54> $10-12 an hour
<hatch> that must be really good for a poor neighbourhood no?
<kadams54> So not great, but not the worst either.
<teslanick> That usually depends on features independent of wages, like benefits, how work hours are distributed, etc.
<kadams54> Yeah
<kadams54> Probably more important than wages is getting enough hours to qualify for health insurance.
<hatch> and I suppose without education about proper money management that money may just go to Apple/Nike :D
<kadams54> Not something Canadians have to worry about
<hatch> waitasecond - people hire more people and give them less hours so they don't have to pay for health care?
<hatch> that's bloody low
<kadams54> Yes
<hatch> that's seriously low
<kadams54> Oh it gets better
<hatch> I'm guessing by better you mean worse :D
<teslanick> Yes, we're operating in the bizarro world of negative american values.
<teslanick> I have pretty good health insurance, but I've got my pitchfork out for VT to get single-payer.
<hatch> funny how bad things have to be for people to want a monopoly :)
<kadams54> Now that we have the American Care Act, employers have been looking at whether they can stop paying for health care insurance.
<teslanick> hatch: when do I get the internet monopoly
<kadams54> Sorry, Affordable Care Act
<hatch> Obama care?
<hatch> (we only get the Foxified version of anything up here) :)
<kadams54> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/10/walmart-and-the-end-of-employer-based-health-care/381199/
<kadams54> The ACA says you have to provide health insurance to any employee that works more than 30 hours.
<kadams54> So retail employers in particular are intentionally short-staffing to avoid going over.
<hatch> woah clicking that link kicked me out of ubuntu lol
<hatch> it's a conspiracy!!!!
<teslanick> Mark Shuttleworth gets a text anytime you hit a link inside Ubuntu. Today he's like, "EFF WALMART!"
<hatch> lol damn yup I cannot open that link
<kadams54> lol
<kadams54> tl;dr: Walmart is dropping 30,000 part time employees from their insurance.
<hatch> wow
<kadams54> Home Depot: 20,000
<kadams54> Trader Joes and Target as well
<hatch> govt health care, public hospitals, increase income tax - problem solved (after about 30 years)
<kadams54> It's not all bad - the employees may actually get better insurance through the mechanisms setup by ACA.
<hatch> ohh well that's good
<kadams54> But no one really knows because there's still so much shit that's completely unsettled.
<kadams54> Including lawsuits
<hatch> :/
<kadams54> Money quote from the article: "Health-policy experts and wonks on both the right and left tend to look askance at the American system of employer-based insurance, which is essentially a historical accident."
<hatch> lol
<jrwren> kadams54: speaking of ACA... did your car insurance sky rocket this year?
<kadams54> Not that I've seen?
<teslanick> Why would my car insurance skyrocket from the ACA?
<hatch> jrwren: you gota stop driving into things ;)
<jrwren> teslanick: its a wicked MI v. MA thing.
<jrwren> hatch: i haven't done that in 10yrs!
<hatch> haha
<jrwren> kadams54: I use BCBS MA, they are not a no-fault state. In the case of health care due to auto accident, in that state it all works, but we are in MI, a no fault auto state. 
<jrwren> I'm basically buying health care from my auto insurance company :(
<kadams54> Ugh.
<teslanick> That's insane
<jrwren> thanks obama.
<kadams54> I'll ask my insurance agent
<kadams54> I'm in the same position
<kadams54> LOL
<jrwren> kadams54: yeah, I thought you might be.
<teslanick> Though I pay for injury or whatever, but it's like $5 a month
<hatch> there is no fault auto insurance in the US? very cool
<teslanick> (in both directions)
<jrwren> thanks engler and granholm and whoever our governor is now.
<hatch> we have that - I thought it was just a local thing
<kadams54> Thanks George Washington.
<kadams54> Thanks a lot.
<jrwren> hatch: its TERRIBLE. it makes insurance here super expensive.
<kadams54> Jerk shoulda just kept his mouth shut and let the Brits continue running things.
<hatch> wait...how does not allowing people to sue eachother make it more expensive? lol
<kadams54> Then we coulda been just like the Candians.
<hatch> or does no fault mean something different?
<teslanick> Washington, Washington. Six feet twenty, made of radiation.
<jrwren> "Mr. Franklin what have your wrought?!"
<jrwren> hatch: it means my insurance has to pay, no matter what, even if it isn't my fault.
<jrwren> hatch: ask an actuary. It must throw off risk assessment or something.
<hatch> ok clearly there are some differences then :)
<hatch> jrwren: what's it cost to plate/insure a vehicle?
<hatch> it's about $1500/yr here
<hatch> 1M liability plus repairs on the car if it gets into an accident 
<hatch> and our insurance company is hugely profitable 
<teslanick> kadams54: The last time someone badmouthed George - http://i.imgur.com/GWw9PaF.png
<jrwren> hatch: used to be 1200 for my 2 cars.  Now its almost double that.
<teslanick> (artist's rendition because, you know, no cameras back then)
<hatch> jrwren: ohh ok so it was VERY cheap before lol
<hatch> or maybe ours is expensive :D
<jrwren> hatch: I have old crappy cars.
<kadams54> teslanick: lol
<kadams54> jrwren's cars are death traps on wheels
<hatch> the vehicle doesn't REALLY effect it much (unless it's  a motorbike) it's almost all liability costs
<hatch> here anyways
<jrwren> hatch: yeah, same here, now that you mention it.
<hatch> jrwren: so now with no fault all they need to do there is up your income tax so you can get global health care and you'll be just like here
<hatch> haha
<hatch> I joke but I'm actually curious if you took a state and increased peoples income tax proportionally for insurance if it would be cheaper for everyone (spreading out the cost)
<jrwren> hatch: if it were single payer.
<hatch> right
<jrwren> hatch: what happened is, ACA provision for NOT covering injury in auto took effect.
<jrwren> prior to ACA, health care plans may or may not have covered auto injury, varying by plan.
<jrwren> now, none of them do, or so my auto insurance tells me.
<hatch> interesting 
<jrwren> what health insurers do, is something called "pay and pursue" which is, pay the healthcare cost, and then pursue (which means ultimately sue) the cost from the auto insurers.
<jrwren> i suppose it is a good benefit for urban dwellers with no car :)
<hatch> I am curious if the private health model vs the global health model (my names, not sure what they actually call them) is better for anyone besides the business
<hatch> uiteam looks like basic ci runs are back up but merging is still down just fyi
<hatch> rick_h_:  Makyo any news on the qa of my `null` branch?
<hatch> sorry the qa sucks :)
<Makyo> Got distracted, doing it now
<hatch> :) np 
<hatch> can't merge anyways lol
<hatch> Just want to know if there are bugs which I need to get on fixing heh
<hatch> quantum mechanics blows my mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbzblfdgwXY
 * hatch lunching
<hatch> it's pouring here
<hatch> and supposed to get to -10 tonight
 * hatch is staying way off the roads
<teslanick> It's the season where the environment does its level-best to kill us.
<teslanick> That's the price of living in a place without poisonous animals.
<hatch> hahaha
<hatch> no but our animals are big
<hatch> and pack hunt :)
<hatch> awww puppy! http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/268/4/3/angry_wolf_153_by_azurehowlshilach-d48jb8g.jpg
<hatch> lol
<kadams54> Meanwhile, in Alaskaâ¦ http://www.glaven.org/roadkill.jpg
<hatch> someone has supper for a while
<hatch> heh I'm not sure if that was road killed
<teslanick> I see a moose and I it doesn't register as "food" to me.
<hatch> haha no?
<hatch> teslanick: if there was a 2000lb piece of brocoli there would you then?
<teslanick> If it looked like a moose? I probably wouldn't eat it, because moose don't look like food.
<hatch> lol
<teslanick> Also, a 2000lb pound of broccoli is just a tree, right?
<hatch> when I see a moose I either see a huge wall (if I'm driving and it's close to the road) or meat 
<hatch> bahahaha
<teslanick> hashtag reducto-ad-absurdum
<teslanick> hatch: you're so *canadian*
<hatch> rofl ^ rick_h_
<jrwren> when you see live cows do you see food?
<jrwren> I saw the moose and now I'm hungry.
<kadams54> I see target practice
<hatch> lol
<kadams54> OK, so, true storyâ¦
<hatch> cow moo moose
<hatch> see ^ food
<teslanick> kadams54: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a33sr9UGvo
<teslanick> not the livestock!
<kadams54> I live by Michigan State University, which started as an agricultural school
<kadams54> One of the places I drive by on a frequent basis is the "Beef Cow and Calf Research Facility"
<kadams54> Every time I see that sign I think "Mmmâ¦ veal."
<hatch> waitasecond
<hatch> Beef Cow?
<hatch> there is another kind of Beef / Cow?
<kadams54> Sure
<kadams54> Dairy
<kadams54> And there's a Dairy Cow Research Facility on another section of campus.
<jrwren> ha!
<hatch> lol
<jrwren> I went to teh MSU diary store once and got icecream. it was good.
<kadams54> Hah, yeah
<hatch> was it made from a beef cow?
<kadams54> I was just going to mention that
<kadams54> Nope.
<kadams54> At the MSU football games you can get ice cream sandwiches that are made at the dairy store. Those are really good.
<hatch> but they are $15 and the size of a thumb tack right?
<kadams54> Consolation if you're watching MSU get crushed by Ohio State.
<kadams54> Grr.
<kadams54> Hells no
<kadams54> They're the real deal
<kadams54> Softball sized at least. Fresh-baked cookies and ice cream churned from fresh milk
<hatch> haha - anything sold at a place where people congregate to watch some type of entertainment is obscenely expensive here 
<kadams54> Yeah, they are about twice as expensive as I'd normally pay, but worth it.
<kadams54> $4
<jrwren> mmm... icecream.
<hatch> yummm
#juju-gui 2014-11-23
<huwshimi> Morning
#juju-gui 2015-11-18
<jcastro> hey guys, I noticed jujucharms.com/jenkins the changelog is not updated
<urulama> jcastro: yeah, bzr info issues between old/new ... soon to be obsolete and replaced
#juju-gui 2015-11-19
<arosales> urulama: not a critical bug, but one I hit again today https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1499857
<mup> Bug #1499857: juju-gui did not allow add-relation and "freezes"  <juju-gui:Triaged by uros-jovanovic> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1499857>
 * arosales wanted to swap MariaDB for MySQL in this bundle https://jujucharms.com/apache-analytics-sql/16
<arosales> but hit the bug above. I can do this in a live environment, just now in the in-browser memory. Let me know if you need any more info from me. Again not super critical as I can do this in a live environment, but for those wanting to create bundles in the in-browser gui it is a limiting factor.
<urulama> arosales: kk, will check. hope it's just a browser cache issue 
<arosales> urulama: thanks, and not a blocker or anything just one I ran into again
<urulama> arosales: which zabbix? server, agent, frontend?
<urulama> arosales: nevermind, found zabbix :)
<arosales> ok :-)
<urulama> arosales: confirmed, we'll look into it. thanks
<arosales> urulama: thanks, no rush just wanted to post here on my recent findings
<urulama> stokachu: did you write the juju search stuff?
<stokachu> urulama: yea
<rick_h_> stokachu: love the recent juju impact with the interview/post and such. <3
<stokachu> rick_h_: np! it's been fun writing them
#juju-gui 2015-11-20
<mhilton> morning uiteam
#juju-gui 2017-11-21
<fabrice> good morning everyone
#juju-gui 2017-11-22
<mhilton> morning all
#juju-gui 2017-11-24
<mhilton> morning all
