#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-05-14
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
<philballew> Hello, everyone doin good here?
<smartboyhw_> yep
<JoseeAntonioR> everything looks alrighty
<ptl> hi
<smartboyhw_> Community roundtableâ¦ what do we talk?
<philballew> smartboyhw_, anything that you feel we need to discuss basically.
<smartboyhw_> philballew: Hmm I can't watch or join in the Hangoutâ¦
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21729/community-roundtable/
 * philballew should be set to join the hangout assuming JoseeAntonioR did not mess up my webcam setup
<smartboyhw_> It starts!
<JoseeAntonioR> :P
<philballew> alright, I marked myself as very interested in attending, so does that mean I join the hangout?
<philballew> JoseeAntonioR, ^
<YoBoY> hi
<smartboyhw_> philballew: dholbach will send you the link I thinj
<smartboyhw_> *think
<JoseeAntonioR> philballew: nope, that was for physical uds and auto-scheduling :)
<JoseeAntonioR> philballew: you only get the link if you're marked as required
<zvacet> is Ubuntu without community still topic here?
<JoseeAntonioR> zvacet: I think there's no ubuntu without community :)
<zvacet> JoseeAntonioR: you know what I mean  ;)
<smartboyhw_> zvacey: The website?
<YoBoY> tea time for me
<SergioMeneses> YoBoY, wise move
<zvacet> smartboyhw_:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2143971
<cjohnston> can someone make me some tea?
<elfy> smartboyhw_: the website is just one symptom - the latest one
 * JoseeAntonioR gives cjohnston some tea
<SergioMeneses> cjohnston, I think YoBoY can
<tiagoscd-uds> about the community thing:Â http://design.canonical.com/2013/05/ubuntu-com-update/
<smartboyhw_> zvacet: That's another session
<SergioMeneses> tiagoscd, maybe you can put it on the work tiems
<philballew> jonobacon, welcome
<YoBoY> SergioMeneses, cjohnston sure :)
<philballew> live
<SergioMeneses> dholbach, and jono_ are here!
<fisch246> yup
<jcastro> yep!
<philballew> yes
<cjohnston> jono_: why stop at twice
<philballew> Me
<jcastro> I'd like to plop in
<fisch246> me
<philballew> if there is room of course
<SergioMeneses> philballew, \o\
<zvacet> smartboyhw_: ok I was interested in that one  bye
<rrnwexec> good morning all.
 * skellat shies away from the hangout
<SergioMeneses> jono_, I cant I have not camera and microphone :S
<smartboyhw_> zvacet: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21740/community-1305-ubuntu-website-planning/
<zvacet> smartboyhw_: tnx for link  :)
<fisch246> ben i believe i saw you talking about firefox os
<tiagoscd-uds> dholbach: hey
<smartboyhw_> fisch246: You are correct he did
<YoBoY> I have raised the fact in the locoteams mailing list we still need a DVD cover art with the ISO, can we try to make this appen for the next ubuntu release ?
<ptl> regarding the ARM architecture, is there any plan to help or support community-based initiatives for porting, e.g. "picUntu" for UG802 and MK802-III like "android" tv sticks?
<smartboyhw_> YoBoY: For 14.04 LTS I thinkâ¦
<ptl> like, e.g. providing help to make Mir run on them
<smartboyhw_> ptl: I think there is a porting session
<ptl> ah, I didn't see the whole schedule
<YoBoY> smartboyhw_, for 13.10 too, and every ISO, I just want some DIY artwork like the other releases
<smartboyhw_> YoBoY: Hmm, probably ask the LoCo Council
<ballock> What about company LoCos? I've got a couple of people contributing from inside company, any ideas for grouping that?
<smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: ^
<smartboyhw_> ballock: Companies aren't LoCos, but then you guys can join in your country's LoCo
<SergioMeneses> company?
<SergioMeneses> we are not a company or something like that
<smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: Answer YoBoY :)
<cjohnston> jono_: or anyone else on the hangout.. I can't be around on thursday, but I would like it if Summit were discussed during the round table on thursday.. just quick discussion/feedback from this UDS.. the changes, are they good, bad, what else needs to be done.. request for help... request for charmers
<smartboyhw_> I am pointing at YoBoY not ballock:P
<cjohnston> dholbach: jcastro ^^
<jcastro> cjohnston: ack
<cjohnston> ty
<ballock> SergioMeneses: I don't mean Canonical or whatever, we've got a ubuntu community inside Tieto.
<cjohnston> and it looks like you already put that in and I missed it JoseeAntonioR
<cjohnston> sorry jono_ ^
<skellat> YES
<smartboyhw_> ballock: How big is Tieto? (Sounds like the Tokyo Metro)
<YoBoY> (arg phone not stopping to ring T_T)
<SergioMeneses> ballock, I see and what is Tieto?
<ballock> A company, 20k employees, over 500 ubuntu users, mostly developers.
<dholbach> is there anyone else who wants to get on the hangout?
<SergioMeneses> dholbach, ask yo czajkowski
 * SergioMeneses hides
<czajkowski> can't at present have a deadline of stuff for today
 * dholbach hugs czajkowski
<JoseeAntonioR> urgh, I'm dropping :)(
<JoseeAntonioR> :( *
<smartboyhw_> ballock: Where is your company coming from?
<skellat> jono: Left a hunk of text in the Etherpad in notes.
<cprofitt> I agree with you Jono... I like the idea of allowing people to grow organicly... cities, states, etc...
<YoBoY> doing like mozilla do now to their events ? people who wants a promotional pack have to fill a request with the details of the events, and have to write about the event before and after to promote it.
<ballock> Finland is the main site, we have active people in Sweden, Poland and some active people from other Tieto sites too.
<smartboyhw_> ballock: Hmm
<ballock> ok, it might be difficult to get a group photo in these conditions...
<smartboyhw_> SergioMeneses: czajkowski: Any ideas?
<cjohnston> rrnwexec: can you mute please when your not talking.. background noise gets really loud
<SergioMeneses> I want to add something ....
<SergioMeneses> but in the reapproval process we can get a lot of information about our teams, and I think this is the best part of the process by instance https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication2012 ...if we remove this process, we have think in a different way to get this information. imho
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: +1
<czajkowski> the reapproval gives us a chance to show others what they are doing
<czajkowski> just feels liek a lot of the work we've done is kinda gone to waste tbh
<czajkowski> mails go to shippit - and they reach out to council already!
<cprofitt> hate to leave this dicussion, but I have a doctors appointment
<JoseeAntonioR> SergioMeneses, czajkowski: any of you can join? :)
<cprofitt> good topic all
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: nope working :) and lack of notice on topic meant cant change
<cprofitt> thanks for bringing this forward
<SergioMeneses> besides, we work with the teams in another issues as you can see here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-locoteams/+bug/1075848
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1075848 in Ubuntu LoCo Teams "Re-approval, ubuntu-ca" [Critical,Fix released] - Assigned to Darcy Casselman (dscassel)
<YoBoY> transform the reapprovals in healthcheck perhaps
<SergioMeneses> JoseeAntonioR, I dont have camera or mic, I am not at home
<skellat> jono: I've got no problem with you're notion.  I've been waiting on it to be executed since UDS-1303!
<ballock> I'm trying to make sense of it. Is the LoCo discussion just a question of sending out CDs/perks?
<philballew> Getting a conference is pretty easy currently the several times I have had to get one. I have a conference pack for a show I am doing in two weeks and I am going to take pictures of all the stuff I hand out and the talks. The pictures alone make great pr and are worth the cost of the pack.
<philballew>  If the LoCo has gotten a conference pack before and not has a problem, it should be easy and not have to fill out as much paperwork.
<philballew> Will we be giving away flash drives soon?
<philballew> Distros like Fedora give those out
<rrnwexec> +1 for deprecate
<philballew> Inter LoCo is very needed
<YoBoY> inter loco ?
<skellat> dholbach: Can you join me in to the Hangout?  I finally found headphones now.
<dholbach> skellat, sure
<skellat> smkellat@gmail.com
<philballew> +1 here
<dscassel_> +1 deprecate.
<elfy> +1
<hggdh> +1
<Cracknel> what about subteams?
<elfy> from a forum point of view I'd agree with jorge
<YoBoY> but these new team will be official teams or subteams of the actual loco/country/state teams ?
<hggdh> I agree with Randall -- this would be more of a grassroots movement (which would help us)
<dscassel_> +1 for in-person city teams. Online, I agree with Jorge. A city mailing list for our town would be dead, but the Canada list is good and helpful and I'd like to keep it that way.
<SergioMeneses> dscassel_, sure! this is the same issue in a lot of counties
<dholbach> grr, I just got dropped and rerouted to login.u.c - did the feed drop?
<dholbach> jono_ (and everyone else): https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1305-enabling-local-subteams - will schedule it for thursday once it's in summit
<dholbach> please subscribe to it if you're interested
<fisch246> yea what sucks about minnesota is that our Loco team doesn't want to share power with anyone, and our local LUG is very um... xenophobic to put it lightly. so our events have been just one sponsored event, and just guys meeting for beers.
<YoBoY> my experience with city teams (we have 5 in France) is they start great but they slow down fast for most of them
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, âââ
<JoseeAntonioR> any opninion from the LC?
<czajkowski> JoseeAntonioR: not all here tbh and not something that can just be resolved in 2 mins tbh, we've been looking for the last 3 months at a few options and it's not so simple so wanted to have a lot of tha facts and examples laid out to make things easy
<YoBoY> +1 jcastro I join your locoteam now :D
<fisch246> The sponsored event, and the beer, has nothing to do with the Loco team. The beer is me, and the sponsored event is our LUG.
<fisch246> We did start a podcast, that is on hiatus right now. Again nothing to do with the Loco.
<fisch246> My point is, that we have people who can lead, but our Loco team doesn't want anyone else to lead.
<skellat> czajkowski: I'll be happy to contribute outside the UDS times and give reflections as necessary
<czajkowski> skellat: thanks
<JoseeAntonioR> same here
<YoBoY> The french experience and position on city teams in France, is everyone can creat his city team, and we (the loco) try to help them with ressources (web, ML, goodies, advicesâ¦)
<fisch246> ok i can go with that
<srinath> hi guys
<fisch246> cause i can take lead on the west metro side of things
<YoBoY> but to work like that, we have to start with a well established loco
<dshimer> Using Ohio as example, I can see local less formal groups just getting together then being a resource that "Ohio" could tap into.  They wouldn't need resources but could provide them.
<jcastro> skellat: jorge@ubuntu.com is my contact info
<dholbach> it's scheduled: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21812/community-r-sustainable-translations/
<dholbach> 2013-05-16 15:05..16:00 in Community 2
<YoBoY> skellat, if you pay the travel, I can send you some french members :D
<dholbach> err sorry
<dholbach> wrong link
<dholbach> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21835/community-1305-enabling-local-subteams/ - here we go
<srinath> when is the documentation team meeting??
<srinath> sorry for barging right in
<YoBoY> There is no possible way to really "track" the activity of a locoteam
<dscassel_> +1 Absolutely I'll set up a city team on the LoCo directory, so long as I can keep the Ubuntu Canada mailing list, etc.
<cprofitt> jonobacon: could there not be a way of automatically removing from 'display' teams that do not have activities scheduled on loco.ubuntu.com
<cprofitt> some period of time -- 1 year, 2 years, etc...
<cprofitt> I do not want the structure or formal stuff to inhibit team growth
<YoBoY> we are not forced to use the loco portal
<cprofitt> +1 on enabling organic growth
<SergioMeneses> +
<SergioMeneses> +0
<DChapman> +1
<commandoline> +1. My experience is teams do revive.
<YoBoY> I'm afraid we will have a lot of empty teams in the future with thatâ¦ and for users looking for a local help, it can be a problem to find an empty teamâ¦
<balloons> for the next session, please speak up if you'd like to be in the video
<balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21714/community-s-quality-coverage/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Expanding QA community coverage | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21714/community-s-quality-coverage/
<balloons> please speak up if you'd like to be in the hangout for this session on Expanding QA community coverage
<elfy> I'll be here and watching - as this IS the right time and place :)
<bkerensa> balloons: \o if a slot is available but not essential
<chilicuil> same as bkerensa
<bkerensa> actually I will watch :)
<cjohnston> balloons: I'm assuming you haven't started it?
<balloons> anyone else?
<balloons> no, I'll kick off in one moment
<cjohnston> k
<balloons> 5 mins is way too short
<cjohnston> such a long way to walk
<elfy> 5 minutes is fine from where I'm sitting with a cup of tea and my feet up :p
<balloons> lol.. hosting sessions is a bit harder
<elfy> :)
<cjohnston> blah :-P
 * thomi yawns
<balloons> can you see the broadcast?
<philipballew> yes!
<elfy> balloons: nope
<thomi> not yet
<cjohnston> no
<josepht_uds> no
<balloons> try refreshing the page
<elfy> how many times balloons
<balloons> lol
<balloons> my bad
 * philipballew wonders why he can.
<cjohnston> balloons: there aren't any urls in the db
<balloons> whoops
<balloons> i told you 5 mins wasn't enough
<elfy> got it now
<JoseeAntonioR> :P
<cjohnston> now its there
<thomi> me too :)
<elfy> you might want to turn the echo off ...
<brendand> balloons, can i hop in?
<chilicuil> balloons: if you want I can share the link for you, so you can focus on the hangout
<balloons> chilicuil, go for it
<roadmr> super productive!
<cjohnston> to those in the hangout, please use the lower third to identify yourself
<thomi> It's worth pointing out that the 1.3 conversion is pretty trivial.
<svwilliams> Its in the hangout toolbox
<svwilliams> for people looking for lower third
<svwilliams> Autopilot
<svwilliams> balloons: wouldn't you consider autopilot one of our tools
<balloons> svwilliams, indeed
<chilicuil> we should add more manual testcases for all the default apps in all the ubuntu flavours
<elfy> chilicuil: +1
<svwilliams> chilicuil: +1
<chilicuil> I think we should focus on that, and letting the depth coverage as a second priority
<elfy> I didn't catch what you said balloons :)
<svwilliams> If we had more initial coverage it might be easier for new people to help increase depth, like chilicuil at this time depth is a secondary priority
<roadmr> do you want to be 95% sure that 5-10 apps work, or 50% sure that 50-100 apps work?
<svwilliams> depends roadmr I'd like to be 95% sure that at least one browser works â¦
<roadmr> svwilliams: ok so "variable depth" :) makes sense though
<svwilliams> yup
<svwilliams> :-D
<elfy> flavors obviously have their own priorities :)
<svwilliams> Where are we lacking, where do we feel we're lacking.   Do we have a good breadth at this point, because increasing breadth is easier (because its shallower) than increasing depth
<svwilliams> if we have good breadth then its time to dig deep and go after depth
<elopio> it's easier to add depth when there's already a simple test case to start with.
<elopio> so for newcomers, adding depth is easier, if the experienced people is adding a bootstrapping set of tests.
<svwilliams> balloons:
<svwilliams> say that again
<svwilliams> ?
<balloons> elopio, true
<svwilliams> sounds good to me
<elopio> +1
<Letozaf_> +1
<svwilliams> Perhaps I'm ignorant about the methods for testing but what about Juju and Maas
<phillw> I'm a server type person and will help out :)
<svwilliams> I can try
<svwilliams> too
<Letozaf_> I can
<chilicuil> I can help too
<svwilliams> balloons:
<balloons> crhrabal
<svwilliams> fyi your sound has cut in and out
<fisch246> i haven't had issues
<roadmr> sound is OK here
<elopio> I can hear you alright.
<svwilliams> ok it may just be me :-)
<elfy> fine here too
<elopio> balloons: are we going to have an emulator to test touch?
<chilicuil> that would be cool balloons
<balloons> elopio, an emulator?
<elopio> balloons: if somebody don't have a phone that runs ubuntu, how can he test ubuntu touch?
<elopio> ok, thankss.
<chilicuil> I think that just a system which could allow people to suscribe to new builds will be enough, nothing fancy to add to the qa system
<chilicuil> lol
<chilicuil> I though it was only for iso images
<cjohnston> balloons: 15 minutes left
<svwilliams> sounds good
<svwilliams> +1
<chilicuil> maybe sending a mail will work better on that balloons, I'd love to help, but I don't have the hardware
<elopio> thank you balloons.
<roadmr> \o/ thanks balloons !!
<balloons> thank you everyone!
<balloons> ohh is it lunchtime?
<balloons> yay!
<cjohnston> yup
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Improving the testing experience for contributors | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21716/community-s-quality-userstory/
<balloons> k, hangout links all setup
<balloons> please join if you'd like to express your opinion
<balloons> without having to type so much :-)
 * chilicuil say hello to everyone
<philipballew> hola chilicuil
<balloons> anyone want to join?
<balloons> this is mainly a feedback session for you :-)
<balloons> Letozaf_, chilicuil, phillw, philipballew, svwilliams care to hop in?
<chilicuil> I'd like to enter balloons
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/67b89b7c84196026cc7e60116dd25e9bf09eade8?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> for anyone who wishes
<balloons> have at it
<philipballew> gotta do a meeting in community 2
<balloons> starting the broadcast
<Letozaf_> ok for me
<balloons> you'll want to mute the video from the page
<balloons> Letozaf_, et la :-)
<balloons> otherwise it makes for some massive delay
<svwilliams> it's pretty funny
<svwilliams> the delay
<svwilliams> yeah between Hangout and the video on the UDS page
<svwilliams> so mute the youtube video
<Letozaf_> weired the delay :D
<balloons> Letozaf_, yea, you have to kill the video page when you join the hangout
<balloons> or otherwise stop the video from playing
<Letozaf_> when I connect I start getting a delay even if I turn the video off
<balloons> a delay from what? :-(
<balloons> try turning everything off to audio only
<Letozaf_> I hear you guys talk after  a while
<fisch246> finally the kiwi is working now
<chilicuil> not sure if I'm using the correct words =), I mean that the tracker should take more active actions to show in the testing tracker the bugs reported against the packages we're testing
<chilicuil> yeah, a more verbose option
<balloons> Letozaf_, after joining there's a button in the top right that looks like a phone reception icon
<chilicuil> yeah, launchpad itself does a good job finding duplicates
<Letozaf_> maybe we just need some classroom sessions on how to search bugs correclty
<balloons> you can lower the bandwidth requirements to audio only
<balloons> that should help
<chilicuil> yeah or the most common
<phillw> we are planning to re-run some of the classroom sessions from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom as some of our testing tools are now functioning better in 13.04
<chilicuil> phillw: that'll be nice
<sak> If we are talking about finding duplicate bug, could bugs of the same program are made, be put under one category?
<Letozaf_> can you send me the link again I lost it
<balloons> Letozaf_, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/67b89b7c84196026cc7e60116dd25e9bf09eade8?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> and anyone else who wishes to join :-) https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/67b89b7c84196026cc7e60116dd25e9bf09eade8?authuser=2&hl=en
<chilicuil> we need to make emphasis in the fact that running tests and finding issues is a good thing, we don't need lots of tests without results
<Letozaf_> when I connect its a mess, I lowered bandwidth and turned video and audio off
<chilicuil> Letozaf_: =/, it's somekind slow here as well
<Letozaf_> chilicuil: fiew! I was worried :D
<balloons> sorry guys :-)(
<balloons> feel free to participate via irc
<balloons> no worries
<Letozaf_> I think that maybe it's just a problem due to that people do not understand how to report a bug
<Letozaf_> so I think the problem could be solved with some classrooms or hangouts on bug reporting
<Letozaf_> maybe some tips and tricks on bug reporting
<svwilliams> Do we have tips and tricks for offline bug reporting â¦ how do I report about a machine that can't connect
<svwilliams> A) do x to get log
<Letozaf_> maybe a video is easier than reading an how to :D
<Letozaf_> liek the ones done for testing ISO-s
<chilicuil> that surely can help Letozaf_
<roadmr> I would only resort to video if it's something hard to show on a document (like tying a bow tie)
<roadmr> the reason is that most people can read and process faster than what a video can show - there, you're limited to the presenter's speed
<Letozaf_> maybe someone good ad reporting bugs can have a kind of tips and tricks to avoid reporting duplicate bugs :D
<balloons> roadmr, I agree.. I speed read, so I like text ;-)
<Letozaf_> have some tips and tricks to avoid duplicate bugs
<chilicuil> I dont think we need a desktop client
<Letozaf_> audio is coming and going here :(
<phillw> bzr is still on my to-do list :)
<svwilliams> could you repeat your question
<simosx> I suppose that people do not use the ISO tracker because it's a new thing to learn, and they would rather have a walkthrough document.
<sak> Still need more training on merging a testcase. The bzr howto, is very technical
<simosx> Is there a walkthrough document?
<Letozaf_> I do not find the tracker difficult, but I do not know about the others
<chilicuil> who has birds nearby ? =)
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
<phillw> the bzr one is at http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
<Letozaf_> sounds better now
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases
<simosx> thanks
<chilicuil> idea: add the 'contribute an manual|automatic testcase' to the ubuntu accomplishment system
<svwilliams> +1
<svwilliams> maybe a couple accomplishments around testcases
<brendand> svwilliams, there is a way to save the apport info for reporting later
<chilicuil> I can do it balloons
<Letozaf_> I also hear the birds :D
<chilicuil> nooo! I enjoy the sound =)
<svwilliams> brendand: I did that while testing maas and when I tried to grab it the report didn't save â¦ should have submitted that as a bug but it was late
<sak> What does the "accomplishment" do?
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments
<brendand> svwilliams, what did you try exactly?
<maclin> balloons: I have a question about how to show the testcases in Chinese on tracker? or is it needed?
<Letozaf_> maybe put some links to the documentation in the tracker
<sak> So the "accomplishments" it is a summary of your contributions?
<svwilliams> oh man â¦ balloons was helping I don't remember it was a way to save the system log to a location and I saved it to a root of one of my partitions but there was no file there when I logged in with my main partition
<roadmr> wouldn't translations have to go both ways? unless you have someone who can read chinese "transcribing" the reports, if someone can't read english it's reasonable to assume they also can't write it, so translation would be needed twice
<simosx> sak, "accomplishments" is a program that you run on Ubuntu, and whenever you perform one of the supported tasks, you get a badge/star that you have accomplished it.
<chilicuil> maybe if we export the testcases as a package or something to launchpad, i18n teams could treat it as other packages languages, doing it possible to translate them, the spanish team for instance I'm almost sure could translate them in no time
<Letozaf_> I find submitting results easy, maybe we should just make the documentation much easier to find by putting links in the tacker
<sak> Thank. Good way to keep of what you have done and what need to be done
<maclin> ok,thanks
<chilicuil> thanks for the session =)
<Letozaf_> audio keeps on coming and going her :(
<balloons> thanks :-) Sorry the hangout didn't work out so well
<balloons> was it me Letozaf_ ?
<fisch246> i still have yet to have audio issues
<roadmr> balloons, Letozaf_ : I don't think so, it was rock-solid on my end (watchiing the youtube stream)
<balloons> or everyone? I suppose I was the one talking
<Letozaf_> no I do not think so
<sak> this was good
<balloons> ok..
<Letozaf_> I have had problems during
<balloons> I just get nervous hearing it :-)
<Letozaf_> the whole hangout
<roadmr> thanks balloons !
<balloons> thanks everyone!
<Letozaf_> thank you balloons:
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305//community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-05-15
<delftgate> Hi there, Is this live as in happening, right now ?
<delftgate> popey: QUESTION: Is this on line video - wise right now ?
<delftgate> Oh, it says that it is on at 3pm UTC .. OK
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Quality Community Growth | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21713/community-s-quality-growth/
<balloons> feel free to join in everyone :-)
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
<rickspencer3> o/
<philipballew> balloons, I can join
<balloons> go for it
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> :-)
<balloons> ohh.. this one starts now, not 5 after.. so let's go :-)
<balloons> should be live in a moment
<rickspencer3> hi balloons we can see you
<rickspencer3> well, speaking for myself
<balloons> lol
<Letozaf_> my internet connection is too slow just like yesterday, better stay on IRC
<gema> balloons: are you feeling alone?
<philipballew> i might hop  on in a few. Google talk plugin was hating me
<smartboyhw_> balloons: Give me updates in IRC plz:P
<gema> balloons: share the hangout link
<balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/4b69bfbfe4e6e584bad47346362911c4692846d0?authuser=2&hl=en
<balloons> anyone is welcome to join
<Letozaf_> I can organize to hold  another hangout if you think so
<Letozaf_> maybe on laptop testing
<Letozaf_> and on ISO testing
<balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21714/community-s-quality-coverage/
<balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21817/appdev-s-coreapps-plans/
<smartboyhw_> Hey Letozaf_
<Letozaf_> Hey smartboyhw_:
<Letozaf_> if they port ubuntu phone to Samsung Galaxy SIII I would be glad to test it on ny phone
<Letozaf_> do you think they will port soon ?
<Letozaf_> autopilot ? I will be very glad to help :D
<thomi> Letozaf_: there's plenty to do - if you want to contribute, come talk to me or veebers
<Letozaf_> thomi: sure just let me know when
<thomi> Letozaf_: what timezone are you in?
<smartboyhw_> Heck, autopilot is too difficult:P
<thomi> smartboyhw_: to use, or to hack on?
<smartboyhw_> thomi: hack on
<thomi> smartboyhw_: ahhh, ,well, that's where you should ping the autopilot devs, we can point you in the right direction
<Letozaf_> I am on CET Rome timezone
<thomi> Letozaf_: haha, I'm in +1200, so maybe drop me an email instead :)
<Letozaf_> thomi: :D yeah think it's better
<fr33r1d3> Is Accomplishment working on 13.04? I couldn't install it.
<balloons> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21728/qa-dashboard-kpi/
<balloons> http://91.189.93.58/
<balloons> fr33r1d3, pm philballew
<smartboyhw_> balloons: We can attract more youth and teenagers:
<smartboyhw_> P
<gema> smartboyhw_: want to join the hangout?
<smartboyhw_> gema: Phoneâ¦
<gema> smartboyhw_: ack
<balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom
<smartboyhw_> balloons: What classroom sessions should we do?
<Letozaf_> what about a classroom session on autopilot testing have we had any ?
<smartboyhw_> Letozaf_: Nice. And autopkgtest and Testdrive hacking
<Letozaf_> I mean on writing autopilto automated tests
<Letozaf_> smartboyhw_: yeah!
<thomi> one issue with an autopilot session is it's always at a terrible time for the two main autopilot devs :)
<gema> thomi: maybe you guys can do a video
<gema> thomi: like a hangout and then take video questions on youtube?
<Letozaf_> yeah a video looks like the only solution
<thomi> indeed - I've been meaning to for a loooong time
<thomi> I'm speaking at conferences about it :)
<gema> thomi: that way it all stays recorded for everyone to see
<Letozaf_> gema +1
<gema> thomi: and you can play the video at all the conferences from then onwards :P
<thomi> heh
<Letozaf_> balloons: maybe record with a camera
<thomi> balloons: yeah, I don't think we did
<thomi> sounds good to me :)
<thomi> \o/
<thomi> +1200 FTW
<Letozaf_> I find videos better
<Letozaf_> IRC is a bit harder to read
<fr33r1d3> The interviews were great.
<smartboyhw_> fr33r1d3: :)
<Letozaf_> yes the interviews gives the change to get to know testers better and see who's behind the nick
<fr33r1d3> More info on how different persons work, please..
<smartboyhw_> balloons: Try to fill in the list before next week:P
<smartboyhw_> gema: PM?
<gema> smartboyhw_: sure, what do you mean?
<smartboyhw_> gema: Private message;P
<gema> smartboyhw_: just query and shoot whatever you want x)
<fr33r1d3> How they do it. It would be nice for us trying to get into the game.
<balloons> fr33r1d3, ok, does a video or classroom session meet that need?
<fr33r1d3> both please
<balloons> ok, so our plans include doing those.. I want to make sure that is going to meet what your asking about
<fr33r1d3> nice.
<balloons> for the next session, if anyone wishes to join, speak up :-)
 * pitti invites thomi
<smartboyhw_> I'm off:P (to UbuntuKylin)
<pitti> yeah, this is pretty much a "what do you guys need" session
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Test development in the Saucy cycle | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21727/community-s-upstream-test-development/
<smartboyhw_> #ubuntu-uds-client-2
<smartboyhw_> Meh
<balloons> anyone wishing to join, just speak up
<gema> pitti: I don't see video
<balloons> we should be live
<gema> or balloons
<gema> oh, there it is
<alesage> same, no videoz
<gema> alesage: reload
<balloons> :-(
<fisch246> there's a delay, so just be patient
<alesage> ok got it :)
<fisch246> yup just went live
<fisch246> so if still no video, just refresh
<fisch246> i wait until the "please stand by" goes away. it's when they go live.
<sergiusens> pitti: not needed for the phone world (ap-gtk)
<pitti> yeah, hence my hesitation
<balloons> welcome Letozaf_ :-) We're talking about autopilot gtk desktop tests
<balloons> so please speak up
<Letozaf_> I cannot here well I have a bit of problems with my internet
<balloons> :-(
<Letozaf_> anyway if you guys need some help on autopilot I will be happy to help
<mmrazik> Letozaf_:  sounds like autopilot-gtk is not used much and we shift our focux towards to qt world
<gema> pitti: I'd like to run those tests on our daily smoke testing for desktop
<mmrazik> we would need somebody to look/maintain autopilot-gtk
<gema> whilst it not converged
<balloons> gema good point.. how long till convergence?
<balloons> and even after, will the gtk apps still be around?
<gema> balloons: I think 14.04, but I am not sure
<gema> balloons: no idea
<mmrazik> gema: which tests? Those that baloons mentioned?
<balloons> I mean post 14.04 we'll still have a gtk browser n'est paS/
<Letozaf_> mmrazik: I would like to look/maintain autopilot-gtk
<mmrazik> thomi, alesage: ^^^
<Letozaf_> if you guys want me to, obviously
<mmrazik> sure Letozaf_ :)
<thomi> Letozaf_: how's your Gtk skills? perhaps you and pitti can work on this together
<mmrazik> I think there are couple of bugreports, etc
<Letozaf_> unfortunately I do not know much about gtk but I am willing to learn
<Letozaf_> if this is not a problem for you guys
<thomi> Letozaf_: you should be aware that the autopilot-gtk code is somewhat complex, but I'm sure we can assemble a team of pitti, Letozaf_, alesage, and myself
<Letozaf_> I mean I am happy to learn new things and learn new stuff so if you think I can help I am here
<Letozaf_> thomi: I can try
<Letozaf_> thomi: then we will see if I am able to
<alesage> Letozaf_, we'll all be learning from pitti, most likely :)
<gema> Letozaf_: keep in touch with pitti and thomi during this work they are talking about
<gema> and see if you feel like maintaining after it is up and running
<Letozaf_> alesage: well it's an honour to learn from pitti
<alesage> Letozaf_, indeed :)
<Letozaf_> gema: sure
<alesage> there are also some internal clients thomi; e.g. webapps and thinclient
<alesage> we should coordinate with them to see if they're migrating away?
<balloons> ahh.. interesting.. the age old legacy questions :-)
<Letozaf_> :( sound is coming and going
<mmrazik> alesage: thinclient still needs that
<mmrazik> there are some long-term plans to migrate to qt
<mmrazik> but its more like 14.04
<fisch246> only for martin for me, though i think he's having connection issues
<mmrazik> than 13.10
<sergiusens> pitti: we are getting lag from you
<sergiusens> well at least I am
 * mmrazik too
<Letozaf_> so am i
<fr33r1d3> me too
<balloons> same pitti .. perhaps go down to audio only
<mmrazik> lag + brak ups
<Letozaf_> I kind of lost the last part, I will have to watch the video afterwards
<sergiusens> yeah s/lag/jitter/
<mmrazik> thomi: tvoss was going to look into something for mir
<mmrazik> wrt multimonitor testing
<mmrazik> ack. no multimonitor stuff for unity <8
<pitti> yeah, but I don't think the lag gets alot better without video, already tried that
<pitti> (hangouts have never really worked well for me, sorry
<balloons> pitti, :-( the little bandwith slider at the top right works well for me to slide down
<pitti> yeah, already did that
<mmrazik> yeah... unity 8 is probably also too new for this ATM
<alesage> then write more tests larsu and desrt ;)
<fisch246> it's kind of insane that people are already running unity 8, even though it's so unfinished. bit off topic sorry.
<sergiusens> fisch246: well we run it on the phones and tablet, so you'll have to be specific ;-)
<fisch246> sergiusens: well they ran it on a mac, but it was basically the phablet os on a computer.
<sergiusens> fisch246: that was a mir demo, nothing more
<alesage> you could even do it in python :)
<fisch246> sergiusens: yea i know, still it's kinda crazy how people can use your stuff on just about anything. you guys have really started something. glad to be apart of it.
<balloons> poor pitti.. lag is no fun :-(
<Letozaf_> looks like Europe has poor internet connections :D
<balloons> indeed.. It's common for it not to work so well in Europe it seems
<sergiusens> balloons: depends on ISP, at least in Argentina... I had to switch to an ISP that had a good relationship with Google
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Development Onramp for Ubuntu Touch and Unity Next | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21707/community-1305-touch-and-unity-dev-onramp/
 * sergiusens wonders why all the _Touch_ sessions are at the same time
<dholbach> who else wants to be part of the conversation?
<dholbach> sorry, the hangout is causing some problems here
<dholbach> it says "enabling broadcast 99%"
<dholbach> here we go
<YoBoY> yes
<dholbach> who else wants to be part of the conversation? and join the hangout?
<YoBoY> but the stream is bad :]
<dholbach> what's wrong?
<YoBoY> stoping lot of time, but perhaps it's my connexion
<YoBoY> if I'm not wrong, the DVD cover/artwork is on the advocacy kit, but this artwork will not be produced for the next ISO,
<YoBoY> how we plan to fix that ?
<dholbach> YoBoY, this is "Development Onramp for Ubuntu Touch and Unity Next ( Community )"
<YoBoY> oups wrong chan sorry
<dholbach> :)
<YoBoY> (some daysâ¦Ã 
<bregma> what is the umbrella project?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview
<dholbach> tvoss, what happened? :)
<tvoss> dholbach, sorry, massive conflicts between sessions in these slots :)
<dholbach> nevermind
<dholbach> "no worries" I mean :)
<ptl> hakuna matata then
<bregma> is the flow of merge proposal to change appearing in the image (or archive) documented anywhere?  With diagrams?
<delfgate> dholbach: When does this meeting/session begin .. Plz.
<dholbach> delfgate, which one?" Development Onramp for Ubuntu Touch and Unity Next ( Community )"?
<delfgate> "Revamping ubuntu.com/community" ...
<dholbach> it's on right now: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21707/community-1305-touch-and-unity-dev-onramp/
<dholbach> delfgate, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/2013-05-15/
<delfgate> it says 18:05 UTC is that correct ?
<bregma> how will  Unity 8 in the desktop affect Touch development onramp strategies?
<dholbach> delfgate, "date -u" gives you the UTC time
<delfgate> so basically it starts in half an hour ?
<dholbach> no, Mi 15. Mai 16:37 UTC 2013 is the current utc time
<delfgate> oh ok
<alecu> I've just seen dholbach comment on the lag, so I count 4 minutes of lag
<dholbach> wow
<dholbach> not bad
<delfgate> QUESTION .. There is a person on the https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2013-May/date.html called elfy .. who is that person here Plz . ??
<elfy> that'd be me :)
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to get on the hangout?
<dholbach> any more questions?
<elfy> delfgate: why?
<delfgate> elfy: And you are to-do with membership, right ?
<elfy> only on the forums
<delfgate> Do you have a launchpad profile ?
<ptl> wild thought here: what if you can use some people from outside of canonical to lead some UDS sessions? Is it feasible?
<elfy> yea - same name https://launchpad.net/~elfy
<delfgate> k
<elfy> not sure why still though :)
<ptl> like e.g some prolific external contributor, or a game developer
<ptl> oh
<alecu> bye!
<ptl> it's over?
<delfgate> Ahh .. I've just relized it's Elizabeth from G+ .. I use Xubuntu .. but I'll leave that for another channel ...
<alecu> ptl: it seems so.
<alecu> ptl: I don't think there should be any impediment for somebody outside of canonical to lead a UDS session; they should just contact the leaders of each UDS track to get a session added.
<alecu> ptl: at least, that's how it worked at non-virtual UDSs.
<alecu> ptl: maybe dholbach has more info ^
<alecu> ptl: do you have any session in mind?
<dholbach> sure, anyone can lead a session - it's just a few folks (the track leads) who can update summit
<dholbach> and the ordinary g+ account can just deal with 10 people in the session, while the one used for canonical.com accounts can do 15
<dholbach> but that's not a real problem if you ask me
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
<fisch246> i'm watching the keynote of google i/o right now lol
<philballew> fisch246, any good?
<fisch246> it's alright
<fisch246> s4 looks good, running nexus os
<philballew> nice!
<philballew> alright, so add my to the hangout for the com website talk if needed
<fisch246> ok may i provide some feedback to this vUDS?
<bkerensa> I'm in
<fisch246> It's really great. I don't work at canonical, nor am I really that big part of Ubuntu. Yet I can provide feedback because I simply care about it so much. However the only thing I'd say it's missing, is a good keynote. Something to tell people where we're headed.
<philballew> Looking forward to fisch246 's good keynote next UDS.
<fisch246> I'm down
<fisch246> Just give me the notes
<fisch246> I'm just saying like... 10-15 minutes about the next steps. Maybe just play a video from Mark.
<philballew> fisch246, well at physical uds's mark speaks
<fisch246> Yea I know, and I miss that.
<philballew> fisch246, life...
<fisch246> I do see that if you did that this UDS, it'd be like CES 2013. "Yea so, we announced everything already. We're doing the same stuff, nothing new... Alright cya everyone, enjoy the show!"
<fisch246> so i trashed my backup nexus 7
<fisch246> now there's only 1 left
<fisch246> kiwi went down
<fisch246> things always seem to go down when you need them lol
<fisch246> oh dear... this coffee is really hitting me
<elfy> hi :)
<peterm-ubuntu> hello!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Revamping ubuntu.com/community | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21706/community-1305-community-website-revamp/
<pleia2> o/
<elfy> hi pleia2
<kotux> hello pleia2
<epikvisi0n> good morning philballew!
<philballew> epikvisi0n, hello!
<dholbach> who wants to be part of the conversation and join into the hangout?
<pleia2> me please
<dholbach> sure
<Guest12739> me please
<bkerensa> me
<philballew> well hello
<elfy> I'll justhave to listen again :)
<dholbach> let me know if you want to get on
<elfy> it's not that I don't want to dholbach - I can't :)
<dholbach> http://91.189.93.108/
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityWebsite
<UbuPhillup> hi
<epikvisi0n> hi UbuPhillup
<philballew> id like to join the hangout if thats tight
<dholbach> sure
<elfy> keep losign the video
<fisch246> video is fine here
<dholbach> please help updating the pad: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21706/community-1305-community-website-revamp/
<epikvisi0n> I don't have the video at all. :(
<fisch246> though i have like... super internet now... so maybe i'm unique
<epikvisi0n> nvm I have it.
<dholbach> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=po0D6BB43Us
<asomething> can we get this into version control or are people wed to the pads?
<gerhartcuighk> jono: Your not activating your Lower 3rd .. ??
<dholbach> asomething, no, it'd be a wordpress site with a team of people who can edit
<jono> gerhartcuighk, oops, setting up now
<asomething> dholbach, I'm wondering about how to best get feed back on potential edits
<antdillon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10004366/Ubuntu/community.html
<dholbach> asomething, ah ok - I think that could be just a "hey, can somebody have a look at my set of changes"? what do you think?
<asomething> I suppose, but I like merge proposals and diffs =)
<dholbach> yeah, me too :)
<elfy> I give up - it's all dropping out for me
<epikvisi0n> What is the goal for the Documentation team for Saucy?
<dholbach> epikvisi0n, that's in community-2
 * dholbach hugs pleia2
<UbuPhillup> dholbach: in community-2 is Â»Growing a strong translation communityÂ«
<dholbach> uhm
<dholbach> ah sorry
<dholbach> epikvisi0n, that's in an hour
<dholbach> next session
<epikvisi0n> mhm, ok
<fisch246> odd... i am so behind live right now, yet the video keeps freezing.
<fisch246> i even opted to use the youtube site, instead of the summit one.
<gerhardcuighf> me too .. just refresh and use the Kiwi in a second tab-page
<fisch246> i'm using irc in pidgin
<gerhardcuighf> just refresh the webPage then.
<fisch246> oh it's probably google i/o that's causing the problems. all the bandwidth being stolen by it.
<gerhardcuighf> QUESTION: Will Tweets and reddit buttons be incorporated into the Community page on ubuntu.com ?
<fisch246> ha well there we go. the keynote ended and it's working now. guess i was right.
<elfy> pleia2 bkerensa jono - if you want extra help with content review - I'm happy to look
<pleia2> perhaps not quite yet, but I learned about this contribution tour yesterday: http://www.ubuntu-it.org/comunita/orientamento
<pleia2> elfy: thanks, added a work item for you too ;)
<fisch246> since we're talking about /community, don't forget about locales.
<elfy> pleia2: k
<bkerensa> dholbach: you are going to set this one up for me too right?
<dholbach> docs? yes
<bkerensa> yep
<bkerensa> godbyk: do u have G+?
<bkerensa> godbyk: would love for you to be in the hangout
<godbyk> bkerensa: I do.
 * bkerensa whacks udsbotu 
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Shaping a plan for the future of Ubuntu Documentation Team | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21693/community-1305-doc-planning/
<bkerensa> Anyone essential for the hangout for the doc session?
<pleia2>  
<pleia2> can you add me?
<srinath> hi guys
<kotux> hey srinath
<srinath> hi kotux
<srinath> i'm new here
<srinath> what about you??
<dholbach> anyone who wants to join the hangout?
<kotux> What's the team's goal for Saucy?
<pleia2> kotux: just added that as an agenda item
 * kotux is epikvisi0n
<kotux> srinath, I've been around for a while.
<srinath> good to know
<srinath> now i know whom to pester
<srinath> :)
<kotux> but I want to be part of the doc team.  how about you?
<srinath> me too
<srinath> anyway i can help
<dholbach> srinath, what would you like to help with? the "getting started" docs?
<kotux> dholbach, where can interested people get started?
<srinath> anything is fine by me
<ballock> I have some Ubuntu enterprise desktop docs I wanted to create anyway
<kotux> pleia2, yeah!
<GunnarHj> As I said a few weeks ago on the list, I'd be happy to work with a minimal "getting started tutorial" to make it easier for new contributors.
<ballock> You can treat me as a volunteer for a getting started guide, would need that anyway.
<srinath> me too
<kotux> let me mention that askubuntu and ubuntuforums has far more information than the documentation.  There are many nuggets of knowledge that could be in the official one.
<srinath> what is the state of documentation for developers??
<dholbach> srinath, you mean for writing apps for Ubuntu or for hacking on Ubuntu itself?
<srinath> writing apps
<godbyk> srinath: The developer documentation is handled by a different team.
<srinath> ok
<dholbach> srinath, that lives in a separate place - it's http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<srinath> oh..
<srinath> right the developing team maintains it
<srinath> my bad
<dholbach> no worries :)
<srinath> one simple question what is it that we are supposed to have in documentation??
<srinath> i mean we can have a zillion things
<kotux> documentation should be treated like software.
<srinath> but what are the most sensible things to add??
<GunnarHj> There seems to be a lack of input from developers, package maintainers etc., i.e. the doc team seems to be on their own. Is that an issue that should be dealt with?
<dsmythies> Help.ubuntu.com does not update by utself. I have bene doing it.
<srinath> dsmythies wow
<kotux> dsmythies, that's a lot of work for one guy.
<srinath> ya there should be someone kind of coordination between teams regarding the documentation being generated
<godbyk> dsmythies: Okay, that's good to know.  How do you know when to update help.ubuntu.com?
<dsmythies> No. it is not. It's almost automatic from the master files.
<dsmythies> I was just rerring to an earlier comment that help.ubuntu.com wasn't updated.
<dholbach> any more questions, concerns or agenda items from irc?
<dholbach> or missing work items?
<pmatulis_> hey dsmythies o/
<YoBoY> perhaps we can plan to put some eyecandy on the frontpage of the documentation, to highlight the last docs, and put the community doc with a clear text of what it is (something with boxes, big buttons, or something elseâ¦)
<dholbach> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21693/community-1305-doc-planning/ if you haven't reviewed it yet
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks#Tagged_Pages
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<kotux> we can try breaking categorization into chunks.
 * YoBoY have connexion problem and lost the feed :]
<ahoneybun> hello?
<pmatulis_> bkerensa: i've always been in favour of promoting community docs to the official docs.  there is a lot of overlap.  copy & paste in both directions
<kotux> hey ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> is this the uds for docs?
<kotux> yes
<ahoneybun> cool
<ahoneybun> will there be any talk about the kubuntu docs or just ubuntu docs?
<YoBoY> official documentation dont cover everything
<dsmythies> Often the community documentation is up to date whereas the offical is not.
<kotux> YoBoY, agreed. the official one should be the ultimate reference.
<ahoneybun> currently I am working on getting the kubuntu-docs moved to a wiki
<ahoneybun> with valorie
<YoBoY> On the french documentation, we have one rule "don't rewrite what exists somewhere else", and we follow this simple rule pointing the good docs everywhere
<pmatulis_> ideally both community and official docs would be in the same place.  the community stuff would consist of added commentary to the official stuff, and potentially merge it to the official docs later
<kotux> takes clear process.
<pmatulis_> having them in different places is fundamentally broken
<srinath> else we can just have
<srinath> links in the official docs to community docs
<ahoneybun> I pulled the branch from kubuntu-docs on lp and copying it but also editing it on the spot, and updating the images
<ahoneybun> you are echoing btw
<srinath> i may be off topic
<srinath> but are there any docs Â for new contributors
<srinath> to ubuntu??
<kotux> what tools are essential for the doc contributors?
<ahoneybun> kotux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<godbyk> To whomever wrote 'standardize tools', what did you have in mind?
<YoBoY> thanks
 * pleia2 needs more comfortable headphones
<godbyk> srinath: What do you mean by 'contributors'?  Contributors to the documentation or developers or something else?
<ahoneybun> what does cadence mean
<ahoneybun> godbyk: this is about docs
<pleia2> ahoneybun: regular flow
<srinath> i mean contributors to developers
<pleia2> srinath: that documentation tends to be maintained by each team
<ahoneybun> idk what needs to be done there
<pmatulis_> deleting community docs is ok but you run the risk of making some people angry as they may intend to keep updating the community page but now will probably stop due to the large barrier to official docs
<godbyk> srinath: See http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved/developers
<godbyk> pmatulis_: Hopefully we can reduce the barrier to entry for the official docs.
<pleia2> srinath: http://www.ubuntu.com/community has links to a few resources, and we're currently working on a new, improved page for that (had a session about it last hour)
<srinath> oh...
<kotux> what tools should contributors use to edit and merge docs?
<srinath> did not know that
<srinath> my bad
<kotux> godbyk^
<godbyk> kotux: We'll be updating the documentation on that soon. But at the moment, you only need a text editor and bzr.
<kotux> right, that's what I thought.
<kotux> most importantly, the team needs an agenda for this release cycle.
<kotux> and make sure that the work doesn't end up being a one-man show.
<pleia2> kotux: there are several folks with work items now (take a look at the etherpad)
<pleia2> we'll have regular meetings to check in on things
<pmatulis_> php documentation is an example of how the 2 can be merged.  but yeah, bit undertaking.  http://www.php.net/manual
<pmatulis_> *big
<ballock> I can't find the mailing list, it doesn't seem to be on launchpad
<godbyk> ballock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<kotux> pleia2, at the moment, where can prospective contributors start? The session today suggested we begin review of the raring docs
<pleia2> pmatulis_: that's similar to the sumo software, do you know if what php.net uses is open source?
<godbyk> kotux: A great place to start would to be to review the current documentation and suggest improvements.
<pmatulis_> pleia2: no, i don't know
<godbyk> kotux: If you can offer specific textual changes to be made, that'd be best.
<knome> godbyk, it would be great if that was documented
<ahoneybun> kotux: right now the kubuntu-docs is like a 2 man show
<godbyk> kotux: You can do this by emailing the list or submitting merge proposals.
<ballock> godbyk: thanks
<kotux> godbyk, can you define merge proposals?
<pleia2> kotux: if you don't know about MPs, you might just want to review and send changes to the mailing list, defining and explaining merge proposals is part of what we (bkerensa will be documenting)
<godbyk> kotux: To create a merge proposal, you'd use bzr to check out the current docs code. Modify your copy.  Then, via Launchpad, you can create a merge proposal that sends notification of your modifications to the docs team so we can merge them in to the main bzr branch.
<godbyk> kotux: As pleia2 mentioned, we'll be working to document this process more clearly soon.
<godbyk> kotux: If you subscribe to the ubuntu-doc mailing list, I'll post there when we have updated instructions and you can help us test them out.
<godbyk> kotux: In the mean time, if you notice anything that's out of date or incorrect with the current documentation, you can email the list or file a bug.
<epikvisi0n> godbyk, sure thing.  Thanks!
<godbyk> epikvisi0n: No problem. Thanks for volunteering to help out!
<epikvisi0n> What are some essential knowledge that a documentation volunteer should have?
<ahoneybun> epikvisi0n: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<godbyk> epikvisi0n: Most importantly, you should be able to write clearly and explain how to do something or how something works.
<epikvisi0n> ahoneybun, is documentation writing essentially technical writing?
<godbyk> epikvisi0n: Knowing all the tools and markup languages isn't quite as important at the moment.
<godbyk> epikvisi0n: Essentially, You want to ensure that the documentation you've written can be understood by a fairly general audience.
<epikvisi0n> ah, ok.
<godbyk> It looks like our time is up here.  If you'd like to continue to discuss documentation, you can join us in #ubuntu-doc.
<godbyk> Thanks for coming, everyone!
<kotux> thank you godbyk
<kotux> thanks pleia2 and bkerensa
<ahoneybun> bkerensa: thanks for the help
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
<jono> join us for today's post UDS social beer hangout - feel free to join us at  https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2e35c93b7aca2d5bc4ce8eeaae65aba61ae84205?authuser=0&hl=en or watch at http://youtu.be/xF3SCZ7QFhA
#ubuntu-uds-community-1 2013-05-16
<ptl> o/
<UbuPhillup> ;)
<smartboyhw_> Hey
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Enterprise Desktop Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21801/community-1305-ubuntu-enterprise-desktop-roundtable/
<dholbach> who wanted to be part of the "Ubuntu Enterprise Desktop Roundtable" discussion?
<ballock> I do :)
<OveRisberg> I do
<euj> me
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to join in today? anyone who wants to get on the hangout?
<dholbach> some new folks joined irc, so anyone else who wants to join in today? anyone who wants to get on the hangout?
<gQuigs> can I join hangout?
<dholbach> sure
<MichelV> Hello Ove
<dholbach> MichelV, want to join the hangout too?
<OveRisberg> Hi Michel :)
<MichelV> Currently do not have access to a webcam.
<dholbach> that's no problem
<MichelV> Will try to find a headset and a cam. One moment.
<fr33r1d3> I believe there are many out there who wants to start help spread Ubuntu on the companies, but its hard to know where to start.
<rbasak> I see that this session is headed "Desktop" so I don't want to derail it by talking about server. I wonder though to what extent enterprise desktop solutions based on Ubuntu need related services from Ubuntu Server, and where we might be falling short there. This is probably off-topic, but the people here might be able to comment. So if you have any insight, please let us know on the ubuntu server list at ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com if th
<OveRisberg> Servers is also important so please join us in the Hangout
<MichelV> Do you have a url for the hangout
<chiluk> You mentioned live meeting.  Why not use google hangout?  Or bigbluebutton?
<OveRisberg> We are also using Hangouts but we have to be able to join a livemmeting and see the shared screen
<chiluk> bigbluebutton can be hosted internally, and you can write your own authentication plugins.
<chiluk> hangouts provide shared screen functionality
<chiluk> I know it's really a social problem as much as technical.... You have to train the windows users to play nice with their linux counterparts.
<MichelV> Do you have the hanggout url again. Had some startup problems
<fr33r1d3> Is it possible to join on G+? what url?
<jdstrand> ballock: fyi, the mozilla updates are prepared in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa/+packages
<dholbach> fr33r1d3, hang on
<jdstrand> ballock: there are usually a few days where it is in there
<mdeslaur> Have you ever thought of having a local updates repository that you delay a few days?
<mdeslaur> Don't you have the same problem with firefox on windows?
<rbasak> Security updates can't go through -proposed, AIUI. Updates that break things are an upstream thing - AIUI, we don't have any choice but to follow what upstream want to do, because we can't get security updates any other way.
<rbasak> AIUI, the solution is to stage your updates through a local repository, and there are tools that can help you with this.
<jdstrand> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa/+packages is a native ppa and controlled by the security team
<euj> firefox doesn't update automatically on windows
<jdstrand> rbasak: they actually can go through proposed, but do not normally because we don't want to delay up to a week
<euj> or well it does but not via os upgrades
<rbasak> jdstrand: didn't realise you guys were here. I'll step out of the way :)
<zul> rbasak:  security team is everywhere
<satish> What are your plans for supporting products for Ubuntu platform to work with Microsoft Lync product. Lot of demand from enterprise Ubuntu users
<fisch246> exchange is a big problem on Linux. Specifically with no exchange 2013 support. If your work uses outlook, it would be using exchange 2013. So if the admin isn't smart enough to provide pop or imap, there's no way to get email but through webmail. This is a minimum interface outside of using the IE browser. No options to forward or anything.
<euj> exchange imap support is really not quite there
<euj> we have dovecot as proxy for exchange imap which works quite well
<zul> lanscape anyone?
<OveRisberg> xavy
<satish> we are on
<dholbach> satish, want to join in the discussion?
<satish> how do i join
<chiluk> as I said.. consider switching your enterprise to big blue button!
<fisch246> my school currently uses outlook, and i'm trying to find a different webmail for them so i can suggest a change for all the people who don't use windows.
<rickspencer3> victorp-uds, can you invite satish into the hangout?
<dholbach> rickspencer3, done
<chiluk> bigbluebutton runs via java in a browser, and provides shared desktop with video.
<rickspencer3> thanks dholbach
 * rickspencer3 backs away quietly
<chiluk> so you guys have created your own calendar plugin for thunderbird?
<OveRisberg> http://www.1st-setup.nl/wordpress/
<fisch246> that thunderbird plugin doesn't support exchange 2013 just so you know.
<MichelV> http://www.1st-setup.nl/wordpress/?page_id=133
<euj> could we have names displayed for all the speakers please :)
<rbasak> Does this "TB/FF update breaks plugins" problem affect just Ubuntu, or all distributions?
<dholbach> ballock, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<dholbach> ballock, feel free to subscribe me on the needs-packaging bug and I'll help to get some eyes on it
<MichelV> https://github.com/1stsetup/exchangecalendar
<fisch246> does evolution work with exchange 2013?
<euj> how are people handling user accounts at the moment, especially cached credentials on laptops? Especially large AD groups have been a bit of a pain for us
<OveRisberg> satish can you join the Hangout?
<dholbach> OveRisberg, I passed on the google+ link
<fisch246> oh my apologies. an add-on for lightening. i thought we were talking about lightening itself
<victorp-uds> gema -exhange setup for testing?
<dholbach> satish, are you still on?
<rbasak> Have you considered running Windows in a VM under Ubuntu for these cases of requiring Windows-only programs?
<gema> victorp-uds: not sure what you are talking about, I was on a different session
<victorp-uds> gema - ok, talking about if for ubuntu phone email and calendar are we targetting to test exchange?
<chiluk> can some spell this zavi ?
<victorp-uds> xavy
<OveRisberg> http://xavy.damaka.com/
<victorp-uds> jdstrand, any comments on protocols for secure login? sssd, samba4...
<zul> victorp-uds:  we were talking about it this morning, still in the talking stages
<gema> victorp-uds: we didn't have any preference for server, we don't have a clear plan on that yet
<victorp-uds> zul, cool thanks
<victorp-uds> was that on a session?
<euj> we are also using sssd, but it is not perfect in a couple of ways
<zul> victorp-uds:  nope
<victorp-uds> zul is there going to be one?
<gema> victorp-uds: we have a session on ubuntu touch image testing where we can discuss this later today
<zul> victorp-uds:  #ubuntu-server this morning
<zul> victorp-uds:  could be we need still need to talk to people like slangasek
<rbasak> So samba4 is already packaged and available.
<victorp-uds> zul ack
<rbasak> AIUI, the discussion was about defaults.
<fisch246> welcome jono
<chiluk> We are working with citrix to fix these pain points.
<euj> most of the problems I'm bringing up here seem minor but they usually require the windows infra to adapt somehow (usually turn off state-of-the-art features), this can be a real problem sometimes even if it seems really trivial
<dholbach> regarding cfengine, there's http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=699809
<udsbotu> Debian bug 699809 in cfengine3 "cfengine3: Request to package newer version" [Wishlist,Open]
<gQuigs> http://blog.landscape.canonical.com/2012/09/19/integrating-landscape-and-puppet/
<ballock> launchpad grou+mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~enterprise-ubuntu
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Ubuntu Touch Porting Checkpoint | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21696/community-1305-touch-porting/
<dholbach> ballock, and just drop me an email about organising the meeting - I'm sure we can do this fairly easily :)
<dholbach> dholbach at ubuntu.c
<ballock> you mean the meeting at the next uds? Sure, I will.
<dholbach> ballock, or another meeting if you want to have one before
<dholbach> to get some more input and interest from other enterprise desktop people
<gQuigs> example for publishing configs: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/09/19/ever-wondered-how-the-wikimedia-servers-are-configured/
<dholbach> next session: "Ubuntu Touch Porting Checkpoint"
<dholbach> anyone interested in joining the session?
<sergiusens> dholbach: I'm here
<sergiusens> rsalveti: link?
<dholbach> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-sponsoring-community-touch-builds
<sergiusens> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-sponsoring-community-touch-builds
<dholbach> does anyone want to join the conversation on the hangout?
<ptl> How are the android packages updated when apt-get does its task? The android partition is remounted and the files mapped in there?
 * dholbach hugs sergiusens and rsalveti!
 * rsalveti hugs back
<dholbach> and you can still enjoy some minutes in your other session :)
<dholbach> rsalveti, sergiusens: is the dynamic duo always double-booked?
 * sergiusens takes the hug as it's cold and hugs back :-)
<GuidoPallemans> Isn't it possible to also support CM10 to build up?
<GuidoPallemans> that would add a lot of devices
<GuidoPallemans> dang
<GuidoPallemans> too late :D
<dholbach> sergiusens, rsalveti: ^ do you guys have an answer for GuidoPallemans' question or should that better be addressed on the mailing list?
<rsalveti> it might be possible, but problem is we might have some API/ABI incompatibilities there
<sergiusens> GuidoPallemans: it should be possible, but I wouldn't really know the delta... what device?
<rsalveti> guess once we have mir it'll be a bit easier
<GuidoPallemans> well, I have a LG optimus l7 which only has CM10 and not CM10.1, but of coourse it's not up to you guys to support my phone
<GuidoPallemans> there just are a lot of phones like that
<rsalveti> 10.1 is ics, right?
<GuidoPallemans> no
<GuidoPallemans> 10 is jelly bean
<GuidoPallemans> 10.1
<rsalveti> hm, then it's weird that 10.2 is not supported as well
<GuidoPallemans> cm 9 is ics, 4.0
<rsalveti> but yeah, we can get an action to investigate that
<GuidoPallemans> cm 10 is 4.1
<GuidoPallemans> the lower the version you can go on CM, the more devices of course
<rsalveti> cool, added an action to the notes, so we can investigate this further
<GuidoPallemans> cool
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Community Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21730/community-roundtable/
<skellat> I'm here!
<YoBoY> here too
<skellat> Missed the last panel I was *supposed* to be present for
<dholbach> skellat, YoBoY: want to join in on the hangout? (we still have 3m)
<skellat> Yes
<dholbach> cool
<fisch246> was coughing during all of last session... gah that was awful
<YoBoY> dholbach, not really, still at work, always disturbedâ¦ :]
<YoBoY> but thanks :)
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to join in?
<rrnwexec> i do
<dholbach> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7b8359466b422a7791afd3aa784b708f0876c5eb for everyone who's interested
<dholbach> and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21730/community-roundtable/ has the pad and everything else
<jono> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-s-uak-first-release
<dholbach> anyone else who wants to join in on the hangout?
<JoseeAntonioR> wait I dropped
<cheesehead> Dropped connection
<cheesehead> "Approved" changing to "Verified"
<YoBoY> verified is more like to verify if a team is in good health ?
<cheesehead> Reconnected audio only
<fisch246> as someone who isn't apart of canonical but apart of the community, i enjoy being able to contribute.
<fisch246> yes a lot of youtube streaming issues, but the hangouts themselves went really well
<YoBoY> lot of youtube glitches for me, and lake of time to really follow
<dholbach> jono, UDS feedback: "More productive and more realistic discussions, working much better for the vast majority. Some network issues, some folks still hesitant to go on air."
<txwikinger> I find vUDS very positive ... easier for me to participate than old style UDSs... only issue... youtube always freezes a lo
<cheesehead> Overall UDS good. My nitpick about Brainstorm is that the discussion occurred without stakeholders (the current volunteers working it)
<txwikinger> google hangou always allows video feed to be disabled
<fisch246> when Ubuntu gets bigger, I would suggest not sharing the hangouts so easily. it's nice in a sense of transparency and democracy, however i was surprised no one joined to do anything offensive.
<dholbach> that's a good thing, right? :)
<fisch246> it is good, but it may happen in the future.
<drc> fisch246: Most of those types have already given up on Canonical/Ubuntu and moved on.
<fisch246> i'm not saying stop sharing them, i'm just giving advice.
<YoBoY> +1 having to deal with home/work/friends/lifeâ¦ it's hard to include vuds without knowing when or what the session will be.
<cheesehead> +1 try a track on a weekend...or not simultaneous tracks
<fisch246> ah yea good point on the moderation.
<cheesehead> ...when I say "overall UDS good", I don't mean good = meh. Good is *good*.
<YoBoY> Can we plan some classrooms on how to use efficiently hangouts ? (lower thirds, mute when not talking, share your screenâ¦)
<fisch246> ^
<fisch246> also muting the summit webpage when on a hangout
<cprofitt> gotta run... sorry
<czajkowski> aye it's true folks on my team in AU cannot attend UDS
<czajkowski> timezones just are not fun
<YoBoY> we are working with IRC, perhaps showing the channel when there is a question to register them on the video too, that can be an improvement
<czajkowski> reason why I'm not at UDS much is work - just lack enough time to be there
<cheesehead> As someone who would never be able to attend a physical UDS, Virtual UDS is vastly better than the old physical meetings.
<JoseeAntonioR> urgh, I hate dropping :(
<czajkowski> FEEDBACK: Does seem to be less women present at this UDS
<czajkowski> feels like a step back, but this may be down to the onair session, but again people can turn off their video.
<skellat> FEEDBACK: Avoid scheduling UDS at the same time as Google I/O
<czajkowski> jono: the live streaming would freeze
<czajkowski> and you'd just see static
<czajkowski> sometimes you'd just head the voices and no video
<YoBoY> it was with the live streaming on youtube
<txwikinger> happend every day for me
<cheesehead> I think timezone-shifting is very possible, but only if the schedule is firm earlier.
<skellat> czajkowski: Could it be topical matter?  I found less topical matter relevant to me this round compared to March.
<skellat> czajkowski: My participation schedule is far lighter than it was in March
<czajkowski> jono: for me I care diddly squat about the on air but
<czajkowski> but I know some women and men also found it off putting
<czajkowski> I pointed out you can turn off the camera
<czajkowski> just an observation really
<czajkowski> jono: ^
<jono> thanks czajkowski :-)
<czajkowski> skellat: schedules always vary tbh
<czajkowski> jono: yup thanks.
<YoBoY> rrnwexec, on work days ? impossible to have a group attending like that ^^"
<dshimer> Even a viewer count.
<czajkowski> jono: question/feedback Why do people need to register on Launchpad for vUDs, I get why we did it for physical one but makes less sense.  I'd rather we promote the etherpad team people should join  tbh.  I spent monday and tuesday and a lot of yesterday liek toher people adding people to the team
<YoBoY> (loco group i mean)
<skellat> On a weekend, I theoretically *could* call for a rally of members somewhere in the state capital to get increased participation.  Week days...no way...
<YoBoY> +1 skellat on weekend I can orginize that too :)
<dshimer> Even
<dshimer> Even
<txwikinger> We need a paricipant from the ISS since they use linux up there now
<bashrc> I think ISS is on RedHat
<fisch246> +1 to the beer session
<czajkowski> jono: http://uds.ubuntu.com/register/
<asomething> Debian, no?
<czajkowski> Online from 14 - 16 May 2013
<czajkowski> from 2pm - 8pm UTC
<YoBoY> thanks everyone
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Track: Community | Regular Ubuntu development updates | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21800/community-1305-regular-ubuntu-dev-updates/
<dholbach> anyone who wants to be on this session?
<dholbach> any join in on the hangout?
<dholbach> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/9b9c3a9946df787f1eba35e7fe8752bbe4aa3491?authuser=0
<dholbach> bkerensa maybe - since you worked with me on the old dev updates? :)
<dholbach> JoseeAntonioR maybe too? because it'd tie in with uonair?
<JoseeAntonioR> dholbach: yep, just getting ready for it
<dholbach> sweeeeet
<JoseeAntonioR> urgh, coming back, I dropped AGAIN
<dholbach> any more feedback?
<txwikinger> still thinking about it :-)
<txwikinger> Will those reports be only youtube, or mp3/padcast too?
<asomething> I've definitely wondered what the CC gets up to. The TC at least has a public mailing list...
<txwikinger> Would it be a good idea to have the councils being held as hangout, or is the fear to lose the documentation that happens on IRC?
<dholbach> txwikinger, oh, sorry - only saw your question too late
<dholbach> but yeah, it's something we discussed earlier somewhere already
<dholbach> and the broad consensus seemed to be that both formats have their merits
<dholbach> so that's why we are going to bring back the leadership/governance hangouts soon
<dholbach> that was an outcome of the community roundtable sessions I believe
<JoseeAntonioR>  yep
<txwikinger> ah ok.. sorry missed that dholbach
<cprofitt> asomething: the reason the CC mailing list is not public is due to some of the issues we have to deal with being personal/private
<rickspencer3> o/
<dholbach> rickspencer3, the session finished early :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> I couldn't tell, I thought I was watching you live :)
<dholbach> yeah, that's a problem we talked about earlier as well - the small red dot in the corner and the small piece of text saying "live" is not enough of an indicator  :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-community-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/community-1/ - http://ubottu.com/udslog/%23ubuntu-uds-community-1
