#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-23
<dholbach> hellas
* pitti waves to dholbach 
<dholbach> hey pitti :-)
<pitti> dong, 2000 UTC
<dholbach> hey jani
<jani> hey dholbach :)
<zul> hey pitti 
<ogra> hi robitaille :)
<fabbione> yo
<robitaille> hi ogra
<seb128> evening
<dholbach> hey seb128, fabbione :-)
<seb128> hi dholbach 
<mdke> :)
<mdz> morning
<dholbach> hey mdz 
<mdz> Keybuk: ping
<mdz> pinged sabdfl also
<Keybuk> mdz: yo
<mdz> are the people who proposed the two agenda items present?
<mdz> they didn't give names in the wiki
<dholbach> brb
<jani> mdz, here
<jani> second item
<mdz> the zwiki history doesn't tell us who added the other item
<mdz> so we'll defer that one, I guess
<mdz> jani: would you like to present your issue?
<jani> ok
<jani> I propose that we allow selected new packages to enter hoary universe
<jani> if techically feasible
<jani> that's it :)
<jani> I am thinking of packages
<pitti> after the usual MOTU review?
<jani> that are often requested
<smurfix> Do you have any specific pakages in mind?
<jani> usual or harsher MOTU review considering it's special
<jani> nvu is what I have in mind
<jani> it's the moist requested since warty
* fabbione disagrees as already explained at the MOTU meeting
<jani> and has it's own wiki page abot how to install it
<ogra> jani, universe is stable
<jani> fabbione I remember that
<mdz> I was under the impression that nvu was not packaged yet; that's why it isn't in Ubuntu already
<Keybuk> "moist requested" ?  it makes people moist, so they request it? ;)
<ogra> jani, the nvu package wasnt reviewed
<jani> I found a nvu package and adapted it toi ubuntu a bit
<jani> ogra I know hence my request ;)
<ogra> mdz, there is one on MOTUNewPackages
<Kamion> how about hoary-updates/universe rather than hoary/universe, if that's required?
<mdz> Kamion: I think that's a given
<Kamion> I feel quite strongly that hoary/* should be static after hoary release
<jani> last meeting (march 23rd) decide that it ws not worth it because it could possibly destabilize stuff
<mdz> Kamion: for the same reason
<Kamion> mdz: ok, it wasn't clear
<Keybuk> my gut tells me that new things belong in the new distro, not retro-actively put in the released one
<jani> tjhat's why I only propose new packages 
<jani> which do not need any dependency besides what;s in hoary already
<fabbione> jani: hoary is released.. why not focusing on breezy?
<mdz> jani: I think the result would be a "one upload only" policy
<jani> mdz, sure
<mdz> which I think would be frustrating, since there are always problems with the first upload, which need to be fixed
<jani> I will focus on breezy
<ogra> jani, do you really think thats needed ?
<fabbione> i mean.. it's a 6 months release cycle
<ogra> jani, yeah
<jani> ogram I think _users_ will appreciate it
<jani> I do not use nvu and do not intend to
<pitti> why can't these packages be put onto a private archive?
<ogra> pitti++
<pitti> we don't stop anybody from shipping stuff on breakmybuntu.org
<mdz> pitti: that's backports, and we want to avoid that fragmentation
<fabbione> jani: did you consider how much overhead it would take to ensure that the package will work on an "old" release?
<ogra> and get imported in breezy then
<dholbach> mdz++
<jani> pitti, so we keep as many users away from sources.list
<pitti> mdz: well, we cannot forbid hoary inclusion _and_ private archives
<Keybuk> is there any use case for this other than "are we there yet?"
<fabbione> jani: i think there is enough to do in universe on each release that it would be impossible for MOTU's to care about an old release too
<jani> if it's a private archive it will prolly have other stuff in it whic may destabilize and produce sputrious bugreports
<pitti> mdz: what's wrong with e. g. people.u.c./~foo/mycrack/ ?
<Keybuk> I can see more complaints that we don't have Firefox 1.2 than a new package
<Keybuk> (for example)
<jani> fabbione, that's why  Ipropose harsher acceptance criteria so we do not abuse this
<jani> so no backports-like stuff
<jani> keybuk, firefox would be upgrade not a new package
<fabbione> jani: by the time you enforce the criteria and upload, breezy will be out
<pitti> jani: do you want to extend your proposal "only new packages" to "only packages that have been added after hoary"? (which is much harder to keep track of)
<mdz> pitti: if there is a real demand for such software, we should try to accomodate it within Ubuntu rather than force it out to private repositories
<mdz> it is much more manageable that way
<jani> fabbione, what do you mean if I upload in two week from now breezy will be out already ;) ?
<mdz> I'm concerned that this would lead us to a slippery slope, though
<mdz> if new packages were allowed, why not new versions of existing packages?
<fabbione> jani: no, but if you need to do a real and serious testing cycle, it might take longer than that
<mdz> we do have good reasons for having a stable release
<jani> mdz, because new versions could have regressions
<mdz> also, new packages are not entirely risk-free
<fabbione> mdz++
<jani> new packages while not rsik-free do not have regeressions
<pitti> mdz: I'm against changing hoary, too, but single-shot uploads make even less sense than changing hoary
<mdz> they do not have regressions, but they can break pre-existing packages
<jani> mdz, only if packaged badly or malware I suppose?
<Kamion> consider a package that drops a filename into a part of the filesystem namespace owned by another package without permission
<mdz> jani: the package could be buggy, or taken out of context.  I'm not particularly concerned about malicious packages
<Kamion> a later version of the second package can then fail to install if you have the first package installed, and require a Replaces: where none should have been necessary
<mdz> Kamion: worse, consider a package which supersedes an existing binary package
<mdz> that's what happened with hplip
<jani> mdz, it is universe. we don't know we don;t have such packages already fixed/uploaded in tha past 2 weeks
<jani> mdz,kamion this is why I proposed more than the usual MOTU process
<Kamion> jani: experience suggests it's better to draw a line every so often and stop worrying about the old release
<jani> even only a selected uploader (fro
<mdz> we have finite resources available for package QA review
<Kamion> you can only focus on so many branches at once
<mdz> I would rather spend those resources getting new packages into breezy, than on hoary backports
<jani> kamion, hoary is a new release :) will be installed 6 months from now
<ogra> mdz++++
<Kamion> jani: yes, and we've finished it; we had 6 months to work on it
<fabbione> jani: it will, because people will know that is stable
<jani> ok I rest my case :)
<Kamion> we will now have a further 6 months to work on breezy, and make that stable
<dholbach> jani: i will review it tomorrow
<Kamion> and the more MOTU effort that's available to work on breezy, the better it will be
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> I've added an item to the agenda for Sydney to discuss this
<jani> kamion, breezy/hoary is too black/white
<jani> users are more important
<dholbach> jani: i feel comfortable with one universe to maintain :-/
<ogra> jani, i'm sure users will get used to it after a while....
<ogra> its the second release...
<seb128> 2 versions to maintain that way is a lot of extra work ...
<ogra> yep
<jani> I know about all this, my proposal was to try getting most benefits with minimum effort
<jani> not parallel hoary/breezy universes
<jani> seb128 no need to maintain
<jani> single upload, and that's it 
<mdz> the best QA process we can provide for new packages is for them to go through the normal 6-month release cycle
<Kamion> jani: useful black and white, though, and a distinction many of our users rely on
<mdz> jani: what happens if the upload is broken?  for example, it doesn't build?
<seb128> jani: "single upload" = no fix on the new uploads ?
<jani> mdz, lot's of universe packages had 2 day QA cycle :)
<Mithrandir> jani: 2 days is a lot more than "single upload"
<seb128> better to focus on the current branch imho
<jani> mdz, I havent htougjh of that
<dholbach> jani: we have quite a lot of packages that didnt make it in this time... hope you dont feel too disappointed
<ogra> jani, sadly, yes.... we'd like to improve that
<ogra> (the 2 days QA that is)
<jani> dholbach, I don't
<jani> don't get me wrong people. I only bring this up because nvu is a recurring question on users list.
<jani> and it's a web-design prog that seems popular
<ogra> jani, note that MOTU didnt even exist before dec. so we had not the full 6 months
<jani> btw only lispire offers it already ;)
<mdz> did it only become a recurring question after Hoary?
<Mithrandir> jani: then somebody should just provide a package and point people to that ; 6 months isn't that long.
<jani> mdz, nope thoughout warty
<jani> but the package wa sonly recently released
<ogra> mdz, nope, it was a while on UniverseCandidates already
<mdz> I don't see why nvu is a justification for this policy, then; its popularity would have been justification to let it into hoary before release, though
<jani> mdz, there was no time to make it lintian clean and reviewed by enough motus
<mdz> the user community has conflicting desires (even each user has conflicting desires)
<jani> true
<Kamion> the best review for a package is to have it in the archive and have users file bugs on it
<mdz> we try to strike a balance with our release process
<Kamion> the problem with updating packages after release is that there's no opportunity for such review before it's unleashed on everyone
<dholbach> jani: how would you feel about the people.u.c/~someone/nvu-solution with a mailing list announcement/wikipage?
<dholbach> jani: as a pre-breezy-solution
<jani> dholbach, that's as bad as backports isn;t it ? :)
<mdz> Kamion: that's one of the most significant factors for new versions of existing packages, but doesn't apply as clearly to new packages
<jani> nah, people can dl a binaty installer from nvu.com
<dholbach> jani: if it's our "backport"
<dholbach> jani: not ...
<jani> not having it in universe requires about the same effort I think
<jani> whether it's modding sources.list or dling the binary installer
<pitti> adding an apt source will be more robust, though
<dholbach> jani: i think it's the cleaner solution, "rules are rules" sounds dumb, but i think it's good to have this all discussed one time, and to have a released universe sounds like the best thing to me
<pitti> ++
<ogra> +++
<Mithrandir> dholbach: agreed
<jani> fine by me too, as I said I do not use nvu :) noone I know does
<dholbach> jani: i think, we'll take care of it, put it on some webspace, announce it to the mailinglists and are set - people who really want to use it, will grab it from there
<jani> dholbach, and we'll build it for all architectures?
<mdz> shouldn't we rather encourage users to test it on breezy?
<mdz> so that they are helping to improve the quality of the eventual release?
<ogra> mdz++
<dholbach> jani: i think so :-)
<jani> mdz, yes that's fine
<ogra> no backports if avoidable
<mdz> we will discuss the situation with backports in Sydney and see if we can come up with new ideas to satisfy that use case
<dholbach> mdz: i thought of it as a interim solution, for the days where breezy will be too bumpy for "web-developers"
<mdz> but for now, I think we should be cautious with the release
<Mithrandir> dholbach: that'll be three-ish months if we follow on hoary's path
<ogra> and note that we have quanta, bluefish, screem....
<jani> ogra, and vi ;)
<dholbach> Mithrandir: i know, i feel ok with it, since most of the work (reviewing, building, testing) will happen anyway
<dholbach> hey mvo
<ogra> jani, yay
<mvo> hey dholbach 
<jani> ok,  thanks for the inputs, I think we can move forward :)
<mdz> great
<dholbach> good
<mdz> has the party who added the first agenda item joined us meanwhile?
<\sh> ogra: i think the problem is with nvu: nvu runs on windows...the same with firefox thunderbird and stuff like this...that's the reason why users wants to see nvu on ubuntu :(
<mdke> yeah
<mdz> "Possible interaction between Devel team and Documentation team, esp. with regard to impact of last minute technical changes on documentation (i hope this is On Topic)."
<mdke> sorry for being late, i assumed there would be more time on MaintainerCandidates etc
<\sh> ogra: and they will take whatever package is there (this applies to any software ;))
<mdke> mdz, i just basically wanted to raise the discussion which you participated on this week in the docteam list
<ogra> \sh, yeah, but we dont want backports currently, so its not feasable now to introduce them ourselves...
<mdz> mdke: understood
<mdz> I'm not sure that there's a decision to be taken here, either by the tech board or the community council
<mdz> is there something specific that you feel needs an official decision?
<\sh> ogra: backports are a nono...
<mdke> i'm happy to be guided by you on what is the appropriate forum
<ogra> \sh, this would be one (selfintroduced)
<\sh> ogra: but backports are for the users a "solution"
<ogra> \sh, we'll discuss it in sydney for breezy...
<mdke> mdz, the issue was just on whether it is possible for the docteam to be kept informed on issues which might affect the documentation, and maybe so that we can explain how decisions will affect documentation
<mdz> I think the best approach to solving this problem is to build a strategy into the release cycle
<mdke> sometimes I suppose this might be a factor to be taken into account when making technical decisions
<\sh> ogra: nice :) u know my point of view ;) 
<mdz> we would declare a freeze date for items which will affect documentation (the doc team will need to tell us what those are)
<ogra> \sh, yep
<mdz> and allow enough time for documentation to be updated after that
<dholbach> ogra, \sh: you're offtopic NOW :-)
<mdz> how much time do you think would be needed?
<mdke> mdz, i think it depends on the issue
<mdke> mdz, in terms of the artwork which caused a problem, its a question of doing screenshots
<\sh> dholbach: sry...but I had this discussion in my gtoo days ;)
<mdke> we hope to get screenshots done in all languages, but not sure how much this sort of thing would take
<mdz> we want to be able to allow translation updates as late as possible
<mdz> in order to get more translations in for the release
<mdke> sure
<mdz> of course, not all translation updates will affect documentation
<mdz> but neither the documentation authors nor the developers know whether this is the case
<mdke> yeah
<mdz> I don't think we can rely on either party informing the other
<mdke> well as far as the artwork is concerned, its just the fact that our screenshots are out of date re: the theme
<mdke> and as you say, lots of changes are unforeseeable (like the nautilus one)
<mdz> and so our only hope would be to schedule in advance
<pitti> well, we really shouldn't repeat such drastic changes like the nautilus one
<mdz> we have a BOF scheduled for Sydney to discuss changes in the release cycle
<mdke> pitti, fingers crossed
<mdz> so if you can provide me with your feelings about how much time we should allow, I will factor it in
<pitti> so we should rather restrict our release policy to obey feature freeze
<mdz> mdke: perhaps you could discuss with the rest of the team, and get back to me?
<mdke> mdz, i think really its a question of having good communication in both directions
<mdke> we'll follow the devel list as much as possible
<mdz> I don't think that scales
<mdke> what do you mean?
<mdz> it is a lot of information to process, in order to try to pick out a very few relevant bits
<mdke> yes that is true
<mdz> I would rather set expectations up-front
<mdke> ok
<mdz> so that you can depend on being able to consider things final at a certain phase of the release
<mdz> and if any exceptions are made to that policy, you can be informed
<mdz> because they will require approval
<mdke> yes I think that would be very appreciated
<mdke> you think that is possible, even for artwork?
<mdz> can you discuss with the team and send me a proposal?
<mdke> mdz, certainly, perhaps we can carry on the same thread
<mdz> mdke: I intend to try very hard to make that happen, yes
<mdz> mdke: the artwork caused just as many problems for development as for documentation, I expect
<mdke> heh
<mdz> we did in fact set a deadline; we simply did not meet it :-/
<mdke> maybe more: it didn't impact the docs, just the professionality of the screenshots
<mdke> ok cool
<mdke> sorry if this issue was not raised in the appropriate place
<doko> if the artwork is a problem, we shouldn't release around 1st April ;)
<mdz> if you can send me 1) a list of items that we should be aware of which affect documentation (artwork?  translations?  desktop behaviour?), and 2) a conservative estimate of the time it would take to adjust for a change in one of those areas
<mdz> then I will feed that into the discussion in Sydney
<mdke> mdz, thank you
<mdz> now that we have been through a full release cycle, operating in a very community-involved mode, we will be making adjustments to the release process for the next cycle
<mdz> based on what we have learned
<mdz> this is one example
<mdke> :)
<mdke> ok great
<mdz> ogra: is the maintainercandidates page up to date?
<mdz> is there in fact anyone here who is seeking tech board approval for uploads?
<ogra> yep, i think so....
<ogra> (up to date)
<ogra> we have a problem with some ppl getting their keys signed....
<mdz> there are perhaps 30 names on that list
<ogra> but i'd like to suggest tritium for MOTU, he has done a good bunch of packages already ....
<mdz> it seems that the process is not quite as smooth as we would like, yet ;-)
<ogra> it think dholbach agrees here
<dholbach> ogra: i do
<mdz> candidates do not seem to know what they need to do in order to apply
<ogra> mdz, the key stuff is holding up everthing
<ogra> mdz, oh, they know.... but no signed CoC without key....
<mdz> ogra: don't we have a notarization process for that now?
<ogra> mdz, yep...
<mdz> between that, and finding local people in the strongly connected set, this should not be such a big obstacle
<mdz> do we need to provide better facilities for coordinating keysignings?
<mdz> perhaps use biglumber or something?
<mdke> launchpad would be easy
<ogra> mdz,  some sort of gpg location maps of ubuntites would be nice
<mdz> is the problem finding people to sign the key, or is it a problem that people don't want to make the effort?
<dholbach> mdz: finding people
<ogra> mdz, not sure about that, but my impression is, that its hard to find ppl
<mvo> biglumber seems to be a pretty good place, lot's of people on it apparently
<mdz> I believe biglumber has ICBM coordinates, too
<mdz> LUGs sometimes have keysigning events
<mdz> the key signing requirement is actually very minimal; it would be irresponsible for us to do any less verification
<dholbach> ok... seems like we have to do more encouraging and link-collecting work :-)
<ogra> mdz, something derived from UbuntuWorldWide where people willing to sign others could list themselves would be nice.... i know dholbach already thought about i
<ogra> t
<mdz> tritium: what is your name?
<tritium> mdz, Michael Rimbert
<mdz> ogra suggested that you were interested in applying for maintainership, but I don't see you on the MaintainerCandidates page
<ogra> mdz, mako removes peple after they get members afaik
<tritium> mdz, my original plan was to pursue universe maintainership
<mdz> ogra: and they need to re-add themselves to apply for maintainer?
<ogra> (we'll need two lists i guess)
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: you both support tritium for upload to universe?
<dholbach> absolutely
<ogra> mdz, the maintainership page says they need to add themselves on the TB agenda....
<ogra> mdz, yup
<mdz> Keybuk, sabdfl: ?
<Keybuk> mdz: no opinion, not seen anything from him
<mdz> hmm, we're due for a process clarification following the Hoary release, aren't we?
<dholbach> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-April/028373.html lists a lot of packages, tritium worked on
<ogra> hoary-changes lists 14 uploads 
<ogra> at least
<ajmitch_> hi
<mdz> I am willing to defer to ogra and dholbach in general, for universe candidates
* ajmitch_ thinks tritium has done good work also
<ogra> mdz, discussing it in UdU....?
<mdz> but I think we need to revise the published process, for which we need sabdfl
<dholbach> apart from that, he works nice within the team and i'm confident completely in him
<mdz> the web page states that a vote is necessary, but doesn't go into more detail than that
<mdz> I support tritium for universe maintainership
<crimsun> I can also vouch for tritium, having worked with him on several packages.
<mdz> given that Keybuk has abstained, and sabdfl is not present, I'm unsure whether that's sufficient to carry the motion
<mdz> tritium: have you been before the community council yet?
<Keybuk> I'm willing to accept ogra's and dholbach's opinion
<Keybuk> so if they both agree, I'll agree on that basis
<Keybuk> which carries the motion
<tritium> mdz, no, I have not.
<Keybuk> I just have no personal opinion, having not worked with the guy
<ogra> tritium, ??
<ogra> tritium, i thought so
<mdz> Keybuk: we've acknowledged that in many cases we need to rely on testimonials from those directly involved; we can't know everyone
<mdz> I trust their judgement in this area
<mdz> CC approval is still pending
<tritium> ogra, I've attended meetings.
<mdz> but we'll consider tritium to have tech board approval
<mdz> tritium: preliminary congratulations
<tritium> Thank you very much :)
<mdz> anyone else, or any other business?
<ogra> tritium, put yourself on the CC agenda then please.
<mdz> ok, tech board meeting adjourned
<tritium> ogra, will do.
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<dholbach> thanks mdz
<mdz> CC meeting is tomorrow, this week
<doko> mdz: just a short look at the toolchain.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Tue ?? ?? 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Wed 13 Apr 04:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<mdz> I'm not sure when the next tech board meeting will be; I'll be in Australia for the next two Tuesdays
<mdz> I'll see if we can hold the meeting at the normal time
<mdz> and will update the wiki accordingly
<mdke> mdke, i sent you a query, hope this is ok
<mdz> doko: can we discuss on #ubuntu-devel, or do you feel there is a TB decision to be made?
<mdke> mdz ^^
<doko> mdz: devel is ok
<Keybuk> mdz: given sabdfl's proposed "Maximum Burnout" schedule for UDU, I'd rather like it to be somewhere near our local timezone at the time
<fabbione> Keybuk: next TB meeting will be at 04:00 UTC as scheduled
<fabbione> just decide the date since everything got messed up for the release
<Keybuk> <mdz> I'll see if we can hold the meeting at the normal time
<doko> fabbione: we could have the meeting at 04:00 UTC every time
<Keybuk> the "normal time" would be (runs out of fingers), uh, 6am local?
<Keybuk> 2000UTC -> 6am Wednesday I think?
<fabbione> Keybuk: a few meeting ago sabdfl agreed in starting a time rotation
<fabbione> if after 2 meetings we start with exceptions it will all be more confusing
<Keybuk> are you sure you're not confusing TB with CC?
<Keybuk> we've not agreed to changing the TB meeting time
<fabbione> Keybuk: yes we did agree to change both of them
<Keybuk> where?
<fabbione> somewhere.. mako should have sent a mail out a long time ago
<Keybuk> he didn't
<Keybuk> certainly hasn't been discussed in a TB meeting
<fabbione> and right now we are using only this channel topic
<doko> Keybuk: there should be no problem with rotating the meeting time
<dholbach> doko++
<mdz> Keybuk: on the normal days, I mean
<fabbione> + 4:00 UTC should be on tuesday
<Keybuk> other than the fact it might be at a time the members can't actually turn up?
<fabbione> to keep always the same day of the week
<mdz> I think I can probably spare an hour next tuesday, but probably not during UDU
<fabbione> at different time
<mdz> according to the normal alternating schedule, TB would be scheduled during UDU
<fabbione> Keybuk: as it is now we have people that NEVER shows up becuase it's in the middle of the night
<mdz> and CC during LCA
<fabbione> Keybuk: so a bit of sacrifice from everybody will make it possible
<Keybuk> fabbione: it's always during _someone_'s night
<fabbione> Keybuk: exactly.. so we can share the pain
<fabbione> and have the possibility to get everybody here
<Keybuk> if there was a 0400UTC meeting, I would simply not attend
<fabbione> Keybuk: sabdfl agreed on the rotation... you can take it up with him
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-04-24
<dholbach> morning
* ogra yawns
<robitaille> morning?  I just put the kids to bed and my bed time is also coming up :)
<ogra> 5:51am here :)
* dholbach gives ogra the high five
<Amaranth> 9 minutes until the meeting? just enough time to go smoke
<dholbach> Amaranth: depends on WHAT you're going to smoke
<Amaranth> marlboro :)
* coastGNU Ahh, sun is rising...
<Alessio> i'm here
<dredg> offs, wake the hell up! ;)
<coastGNU> It's my first time at a ubuntu-meeting. Will anyone give a start signal??
<crimsun> hey jthood!
<crimsun> glad to see you're applying for maintainership :)
<Phython> coastGNU: If you stay quiet you might not get notice
<schweeb> coastGNU: best idea would probably be just to sit back and go with the flow :)
<Phython> d
<jdthood> Hello.  I initially thought the meeting was on #ubuntu, but obviously not.
<coastGNU> schweeb: I'm just fighting not to flow asleep. :-)
* schweeb hands coastGNU one of his provigils
<ogra> hmm, where's mako ?
<schweeb> maybe he forgot, heh
<ogra> hrm....
<schweeb> not so good!
<Amaranth> should have started 5 minutes ago :)
<coastGNU> may anyone ring Mako up?
<ogra> i pinged him in -devel
<dredg> er, relax.
<diamond> dredg: at 5am, the real danger is of relaxing too much -)
<ogra> dredg, i'd like to, yes....
<smurfix> ogra: he's been idle for 3h, that's unlikely to have helped ;-)
<ogra> smurfix, thats bad.....
<Alessio> hi smurfix 
<Alessio> mako is on the bed yet..
<coastGNU> Alessio: Mako, which timezone, east coast USA?
<dredg> so, does anyone have a way of reaching mako?
<Alessio> the meeting is postponed tomorrow night ;)
<dholbach> coastGNU: yes
<schweeb> mako's Eastern time
<Alessio> coastGNU, 0.00 am i think
<schweeb> it's midnight right now
<dholbach> so thats no reason not to attend :-)
<schweeb> indeed
<schweeb> he's usually awake this time of night...
<Alessio> awake in a pub?
<jdthood> Can anyone here call this meeting to order or shall we consider it cancelled?
<jdthood> mdz?  Kamion?  thom?  lamont?  fabbione?
<Alessio> sabfdl, where is he?
<dholbach> jdthood: kamion and elmo are fast asleep, as for sabdfl i don't know, those 3 + mako can chair the CC
<coastGNU> jdthood: May be it might be a good idea to start with a topic which may be discussed. So we may be able to get prepared for a follow up meeting?
* smurfix grumbles
<jdthood> First item on the agenda is a list of new membership candidates.  We can skip that.
<dholbach> dredg is about to send mako an sms
<jdthood> Second item on the agenda is ' Need for IRC operators/moderators for #ubuntu?
<tritium> speaking of that, bob2 should be here...
<ogra> yep
<coastGNU> 3rd item? LoCoTeams and Mailing list process
<jdthood> "At the next CC meeting, everyone on the channel will be invited and there will be a decision for operatorship by rough consensus."
<fabbione> sorry i am late
<ogra> fabbione, nope
<ogra> fabbione, mako is missing
<smurfix> fabbione: Others are even later :-/
<fabbione> ah ok
<jdthood> Ref: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/cc-summary-20050322.html
<ogra> fabbione, as well as the rest of CC
<jdthood> Third item on the agenda, as coastGNU pointed out, is: LoCoTeams and Mailing list process. We need a way to recognize when teams become teams and what the relationship should be between language lists, moderators, and LoCoTeams is -- if any.
<Amaranth> How do you volunteer to be an operator? Just say something? :)
<coastGNU> Amaranth: By the principle of doocracy? Cite of Knut Irvyn, Skolelinux, 'We are a doocracy' :)
<ogra> coastGNU, how does that work with having a dictator ?
<ogra> oh, .au wakes up :)
<daniels> i've been awake for five hours
<daniels> and already uploaded two packages to breezy :P
<ogra> heh, i saw :)
<dholbach> daniels: you rock! we love you! :-)
<dredg> daniels: yeah, not to keep score or anything... ;)
<crimsun> I've uploaded an updated xfdesktop4, too
<jdthood> I am considering the meeting cancelled.
* jdthood goes back to bed
* dholbach just notices that the Beatles had a song  "Rocky Raccoon"  -  sounds like a release name, eh?
<Alessio> oh
<daniels> actually, i think three today ... depends on whether i did nvidia-settings today or last night (i can't remember)
<daniels> dholbach: oh man
<dholbach> daniels: you're right, we might run into trouble with that one :-)
<Alessio> can the CC start?
<daniels> the thought of uploading stuff to rocky scares me
<dholbach> haha :-)
<Alessio> wake up 6 a.m. for nothing?
<Alessio> :(
<aj> so what's meant to be discussed, can't you just have an informal meeting, and thrust minutes on to the slacker chairs when they wake up?
<crimsun> aj: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<ogra> aj, there have to be approved a lot of members, which cant be made without their decision...
<aj> oh, all decision making things
<ogra> jop
<Alessio> uhm..
<aj> could work out a way to reco'nize when teams become teams
<Amaranth> Doesn't everything need chair approval?
<ogra> nearly...
<coastGNU> If we figure out some arguments in a discussion it might be helpfull for a follow up meeting?
<Alessio> ogra, are we waiting only mako?
<ogra> looks like...
<dholbach> Alessio: the other CC members should be sleeping (as for sabdfl i dont know)
<ogra> i see no items that coud be handled without CC on the agenda
<Alessio> i think that #ubuntu needs some operator
<Amaranth> call one of them? :)
<ogra> bob2 did a survey among possible candidates, he is missing too
<dholbach> Amaranth: dredg sent an sms to mako
<Amaranth> does a phone ring when it gets an sms?
<Amaranth> a little light just starts blinking on mine
<siretart> Amaranth: depends on the phone ;)
<ogra> Amaranth, mine beeps...
<aj> elmo's phone rings louder and louder 'til he wakes up
<dholbach> poor elmo
<Alessio> but is there any problem in syncronization of CC members ;) ?
<aj> unfortunately he's coming to .au by next week and i value my life
<coastGNU> Amaranth: depends on configuration, I would suggest to phone him directly. Should be the same number I would say.
<dholbach> aj: hahaha
<ogra> heh
<Amaranth> where is elmo located? i could get screamed at if he is in the US :)
<ogra> Amaranth, UK
<aj> UK, where it's 4am or 5am or so
<Amaranth> ah
<diamond> 5:39am.
<ogra> 5:38
<ogra> heh
<Alessio> bad time
<coastGNU> Alessio: good time to get out of bed...
<Alessio> but why have they fixed that CC?
<dholbach> i get myself another coffee, call me, if i take too much time :-)
<schweeb> I don't think elmo abides by the most normal of sleeping hours anyways, heh
<aj> what, 3am to midday's not normal? :)
<Alessio> for rotate?
<Alessio> 41 minutes.. it's late
* Amaranth pictures them all saying "I'm sure one of the others will be there" and doing something else
<schweeb> yea
<schweeb> well, mako's probably the best candidate for a phone call, if anyone has his number :)
<Alessio> bad wake up this morning
<Alessio>  ;D
<dholbach> http://mako.yukidoke.org/contact.html
<ogra> crimsun, you took a volovoguy background ? 
<schweeb> I'd call, but my cell phone is uber-out-of-range at my house
<tritium> I don't mind calling -- free long distance for me.
<crimsun> ogra: nope, for now I just followed upstream's request to change it to non-Xfld
<Alessio> bah
<schweeb> tritium: same
<ogra> crimsun, ah, because you wrote oliver....
<schweeb> I live in an area devoid of cellular signal
<crimsun> ogra: jani and I will work on getting/making some Ubuntu-specific Xfce artwork
<tritium> I'll call...
<Amaranth> oh, mako is in US
<ogra> crimsun, yeah, that sounds great....
<dholbach> crimsun: rock :-)
<Amaranth> cell phone gets free long distance after 9pm, i can call
<tritium> That's a Seattle area code, but I think he's in N.Y.
<dredg> dholbach: that number is where i sent the sms to. either he's not checking his phone at all or my provider is silently dropping intl. messages
<Amaranth> or tritium can
<dredg> if someone wants to call him, fire ahead
<dholbach> a call might be best
<tritium> cool
<diamond> dredg: sms to us providers is a... gamble 
<Alessio> who call him? should i call?
<dredg> diamond: yeah, it's gsm though so i'm counting on it being sane(ish)
<crimsun> I can if Mike doesn't
<crimsun> or perhaps we both will
<crimsun> tritium: are you calling?
<tritium> yes
<tritium> chatting
<crimsun> k, thanks.
<tritium> he can be here in about 30 mints
<tritium> minutes
<schweeb> works for me
* ogra yawns
<schweeb> who needs sleep anyways
<crimsun> ok, so we will postpone for 30 mins
* dholbach takes the dog for a walk then
<dholbach> thanks tritium 
<crimsun> 0530 UTC then?
<diamond> tritium: yay. cheers for making getting up at 5am not a complete waste of time -)
<schweeb> I suppose I should eat dinner
* dholbach high fives tritium, soon-to-be-made-MOTU
<Alessio> 30 minutes?
<Alessio> oh..
<crimsun> 0515 would be closer to 30 mins, but 0530 is more considerate ;)
<Amaranth> unless ubuntu isn't updating my time 30 minutes is 0521 :)
<tritium> Okay, just got off the phone.
<tritium> He'll be here in roughly 30 minutes.
<crimsun> great, thanks.
* crimsun preps lecture notes
<tritium> however, without the rest of the council, he thinks we'll push the meeting to Thursday
<crimsun> sounds reasonable to me
<dredg> yeah, doesn't it take 2 to approve new members?
<tritium> So he'll post to #ubuntu-news with the meeting reschedule details.
<ogra> dredg, afaik yes...
<dredg> or is my sleep-deprived brain making things up?
<dholbach> ubuntu-news@ rather, hm?
<crimsun> or -devel?
<tritium> dholbach, heh, yes :)
<crimsun> ah
<tritium> he specifically said "news"
<crimsun> right
<dholbach> anway... i'm taking the dog out... bbl
<tritium> But he'll still be back online soon, even if the meeting is canceled
<Alessio> can the meeting cancelled?
<Alessio> the i can come bacj to bed..
<tritium> rescheduled
<Alessio> who can decide it?
* ogra grumbles...
<ogra> night all
<tritium> night ogra 
<Alessio> i come back
<Alessio> to the bed
<Alessio> i hope that the meeting'll be reschedule..
<Alessio> in the next days--
<tritium> Alessio, plan on Thursday, according to mako
<Alessio> same time?
<schweeb> tritium: our Thursday or UTC thursday
<Alessio> tritium, smae time?
<Alessio> *same
<tritium> schweeb, I guess either wait 30 minutes or so and talk to mako, or watch for his post to ubuntu-news
<schweeb> yea
<Alessio> night all
<tritium> night
<Alessio> 1 hour
<Alessio> too late..
<Treenaks> 4*mumbles something about daylight saving*
<Amaranth> yeah, it would be 11pm right now and i wouldn't be forcing myself to stay up :)
<Treenaks> the old time (1600 UTC) was not good for me (at 17:00 I'm in the bus home)
<Treenaks> this time is bad as well: I'm going to work in 5 minutes 8)
<Amaranth> well, hopefully the meetings won't go over an hour :)
<Amaranth> hard to pick a time that people around the world can make
<Treenaks> Amaranth: yeah,  rotating schedule would probably be best
<coastGNU> Amaranth: May be we should use stardate time? ;-)
<Treenaks> (sometimes 4:00 UTC, sometimes 8:00 UTC, sometimes 12:00 UTC, etc
<diamond> Treenaks: it currently is on a 6 hour incrementing rotation
<Alessio> the next at 8:00 UTC i think
<Alessio> night all
<dredg> diamond: naturally. the next meeting won't be held last week
<dholbach> re
<tritium> hi dholbach
<diamond> dredg: ye..es
<dredg> diamond: remember, half the world's population is water. the other 96% is wheat.
<dredg> that's just not enough
<diamond> lol
* dredg loses the game
<mako> tritium: greetings
<tritium> hi mako :)
<dholbach> hi mako
<mako> hey everyone
<dholbach> mako: any chance of getting someone of the other CC members here?
<mako> dholbach: hmmmm
<Amaranth> a couple of people that were on the agenda left already, didn't they?
<tritium> mako, I hope you don't mind the phone call.  Did you make the "acceptance face" out of surprise?
<mako> i think the chance of getting mark is very very low
<mako> tritium: no, i'm glad you called
<mako> i put the phone number up there for a reason
<tritium> good deal
<mako> croatians calling me at 4am because their shipments are in customs.. less good :)
<mako> this, fine :)
<diamond> lol
<tritium> :)
<mako> so anyway
<mako> i thought the meetings were scheduled for the tuesdays always.. 
<mako> in any case, there has been confusion on this one, and some, er selective memory i think
<mako> when the meeting is at 4am, your memory gets selective
<mako> so.. is there a log to speak of?
<Amaranth> not really, nothing has happened
<mako> alright
<mako> well, i suspect tritium conveyed my message
<tritium> I did
<mako> voice->irc :)
<mako> elmo and kamion have not been idle for too long
<tritium> :)
<schweeb> greetings mako
<mako> long enough than they're are not about to wake up and too long that they will just come back
<mako> so...
<mako> if people have issues they want to bring up, we can do a sort of mock meeting
<mako> although we can't vote
<mako> since it would be the mako council then
<mako> which, as much as i would like, seems a bit off :)
<mako> and we'll reschedule for sometime in the next few days
<tritium> for one thing, bob2 is not here to discuss ops for #ubuntu
<coastGNU> mako: issues, shure I have :-)
<mako> so, are most people interested in the IRC stuff?
<mako> the #ubuntu operator stuff
<diamond> mako: i'm here for the free sandwiches. oh, and membership ,-)
<diamond> (which obviously is off the cards this morning)
<mako> diamond: i was just about to cook something
<tritium> membership and irc
* coastGNU would like to discuss the loco topic..
<mako> who is here for membership?
<tritium> mako, I, for one
<schweeb> me too
<robitaille> and me
* siretart too
* diamond raises a paw
<schweeb> mako: if you look at the agenda, there should be like 20 of us here for membership ;)
<dredg> mako: sent you an sms (apologies if you got it more than once)
<mako> alright.. well i can go through the list of candidates and give you my impressions on the wiki pages 
<dholbach> schweeb: 10 of them are here :-)
<tritium> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> it's all not-binding but if there is still to do, best to know before the real meeting
<dredg> mako: if you got it at all...
<diamond> mako: ah. that would be helpful, cheers.
<mako> alright
<mako> MartinEricRacine ? 
<mako> Hiweed?
<mako> (both were on older agendas and were asked to fill out their wik pages)
<mako> schweeb: next, yes?
<dholbach> should be removed from the agenda, if they REALLY mean it, they can add themselves back to it... same should go for MaintainerCandidates (*mess*)
<schweeb> mako: yep
<mako> dholbach: i tend to agree
<mako> dholbach: ogra did some work on that. i thin kthe ball is in my court now
<dholbach> they will understand its no offense
<mako> schweeb: cool, you're doing motu stuff, and another detroit loco guy?
<schweeb> yep, done a few packages, got gsf-sharp added as NEW
<mako> detroit is ubuntu central
<schweeb> yep
<mako> dholbach: he worked with you?
<dholbach> yes, he did good work
<mako> schweeb: cool, i don't forsee any controversy :)
<schweeb> alrighty then
<schweeb> :)
<mako> schweeb: thanks for you work dude :)
<schweeb> yw
<schweeb> :)
<mako> ReinhardTartler?
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> siretart: ping
<mako> looks like you have a ton of motu packages
<siretart> ah yes
<siretart> I'm there, im here :)
<crimsun> yep, he's quite active in MOTU
<siretart> yes, the list are the packages I had a look at and fixed the FTBFSes
<siretart> mostly
<mako> wow, sounds good
<mako> siretart: nice wiki page also :)
<mako> makes your work on the project very clear
<siretart> mako: thanks :)
<mako> siretart: cool, i don't forsee membership being controversial :)
<siretart> hooray! :)
<mako> siretart: don't get too excited.. it's not official yet ;)
<mako> ThomasHood 
<mako> ?
<dredg> he fled
<aj> went to bed
<crimsun> jdthood of Debian fame, shouldn't have an issues becoming a member
<crimsun> any^
<mako> i know thomas from debian
<crimsun> yep, his ALSA work speaks for itself
* ajmitch_ supports schweeb for pres^Wmembership
<mako> LorenzoHernandezGarciaHierro ?
<ajmitch_> trulux - working on SELinux & other stuff
<schweeb> ajmitch_: lol
<Amaranth> he is the one posting Hardened Ubuntu messages to the -devel list
<ajmitch_> he's done some good contributions for selinux that will hopefully get pushed for breezy - also libssp
<mako> right, i see he seems to be most of the energy behind hardened ubuntu
<mako> and debian for that matter
<ajmitch_> yep
<mako> do we know his nick?
<ajmitch_> trulux
<mako> that's trulux?
<ajmitch_> yes
<mako> ahh, ok
<mako> i know him
<ajmitch_> :)
<mako> i irc with him all the time :)
<mako> killer!
<mako> alright, we canm deal with that when he resurfaces
<tritium> trulux is quite bright.  I chat with him often
<ajmitch_> great
<mako> i'm mostly wanting to talk to the people who *are* here
<dredg> meh, i irc with batman. he'd kick both your asses. ors...
<mako> to make a list of that
<mako> StephenShirley
<mako> ?
<dredg> that's diamond
<diamond> mako: yo
<mako> diamond: you are here
<mako> hot motu action, no?
<dholbach> he's a ROCKing MOTU candidate as well
<diamond> mako: as best as i could in time for the release. i plan on being slightly saner in future, pick some packages, maintain them. etc
<ajmitch_> plenty of MOTU candidates around
<mako> ajmitch_: definitely, it's great to see
<mako> diamond: cool, well thanks for the late release push.. it's extremely appreciated
<diamond> mako: thanks for the release -)
* mako will take full credit for that ;)
<diamond> lol
<mako> diamond: what other stuff are you interested in doing?
<diamond> mako: i'm a c and python guy. i'm happy maintaining or devel, whatever needs to be done really
<mako> diamond: killer.. i guess you'll find your niche with time :) but thanks for helping out in general :)
<schweeb> diamond: python?  I have something you may be able to help with :)
<mako> AlessioFattorini ?
<mako> Alessio ?
<diamond> schweeb: i'm happy to help if i can
<mako> i certainly know alessio from his work on the italian loco
<Amaranth> Alessio has been idle for an hour
<Amaranth> I think he went to bed.
<mako> alright.. well.. i'll mark down that he showed up
<schweeb> diamond: Xen userspace tools... I was working on packaging them, but dropped cause of proximity to release...  according to fabbione they may not work with python2.4, so may need some python reworkage
<mako> i'm already familiar with his work
<Amaranth> he away message translates to "I am sleeping" :)
<mako> Simone Gotti ?
<dholbach> motaboy, brought some KDE love in
<dholbach> worked with him and his packages weren't bad at all
<diamond> schweeb: i'm not an expert, but that sounds very interesting
<mako> does anyone know simone's nick?
<Amaranth> motaboy hasn't been online in 7 hours
<crimsun> motaboy, mako 
<dredg> right, i need a couple hourss sleep before i start work. nightol.
<mako> dredg: thanks for showing up
<crimsun> night, dredg 
<dholbach> sleep tight, dredg 
<tritium> night, dredg
<mako> JohnDong ?
<dredg> cheers folks.
<schweeb> yea, I'm actually tired at 2am for once, amazing
<mako> jdong...
<mako> spends 4 hours/day on the forums
<Amaranth> heh
<mako> wow
<mako> that's pretty intense
<schweeb> daamn
<ajmitch_> impressive
<mako> anyway, i think that counts as a major contribution :)
<mako> JonDodson?
<mako> we've emailed
<Amaranth> Their wikipages should say their irc nicks. :P
<Amaranth> You should point that out for the people that get dropped.
<mako> Amaranth: would be nice :)
<mako> dropped?
<mako> Kassetra ?
<Amaranth> dropped from the list, dholbach was saying something about that
<dholbach> what?
<mako> Amaranth: only the first two people who have not improved their wiki page over several weeks
<schweeb> Amaranth: only the 2 that had missed multiple meetings
<mako> Amaranth: we're just taking them off temporarily so we don't have to skip them each meeting
<Amaranth> ah
<mako> Kassetra is another major forums contributor it seems
<Amaranth> you should add a note to the minutes then or something
<dholbach> or add a to-be-revisited section on the wiki page
<mako> i'm gonna be pleased to recognize those contirbutions
<mako> alright.. into more familiar territory: DanielRobitaille
<robitaille> here
<mako> robitaille: hello sir
* Amaranth should try to become a MOTU
<mako> robitaille: nice wiki page dude
<robitaille> thanks
<siretart> Amaranth: done :)
<robitaille> I tried to be complete :)
<Amaranth> siretart: ?
<mako> robitaille: i think you've made the council's job pretty easy
<siretart> Amaranth: my wikipage has now my irc nick ;)
<mako> robitaille: you worked with anyone else who you think could vouche for you?
<Amaranth> ah, nice
<robitaille> thom was supposed to vouch for me
<robitaille> not sure if he is around
<mako> robitaille: i'm sure he's asleep
<diamond> robitaille: impressive wiki page
<tritium> actually, I think he's active in #ubuntu-devel
<mako> diamond: seriously, yeah? :)
<dholbach> he's pm #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> s/pm/on
<mako> ok..
<mako> i was like "prime minister?"
<mako> damnit! i'm prime minister!
<diamond> mako: seriously. it's a bit intimadating -)
<mako> ;)
<mako> robitaille: cool dude, great example page for other people
<mako> robitaille: thanks for the continued work
<mako> travis newman is around?
<mako> panickedthumb, yes?
<thom> eh, sorry dudes
* diamond grins. nice nick
<robitaille> you're welcome
<mako> thom: aren'y you supposed to be asleep?
<thom> mako: i'm downunder already
<dholbach> thom: woohoo! :-)
<mako> thom: see you sunday
<thom> mako: indeed :-) 
<dholbach> monday :-)
<thom> so yes, robitaille has been a huge help triaging firefox bugs; definitely should be a member
<Amaranth> So, is ubu where sabdfl gets to whip you all into coding way too much stuff? :)
<diamond> Amaranth: -)
<thom> Amaranth: it's looking remarkably like that
<mako> Amaranth: apparently not.. it's where we do meetings until we drop and then go home and have to do all the things we said would we would
<schweeb> either that, or it's just an excuse for nerds to sit on the beach getting drunk in .au ;)
<mako> schweeb: i think there's little risk of that
<schweeb> lol
<thom> mako: like Amaranth says - the whipping will happen at UDU, the coding after
<mako> thom: true enough :)
<mako> MichaelRimbert ?
<crimsun> (tritium)
<dholbach> tritium: here you go :-)
<tritium> mako, here :)
<crimsun> tritium has already been approved by the TB
<dholbach> made a MOTU yesterday, needs membership before
<mako> tritium: great.. i don't think it will be a problem
<tritium> super!
<mako> tritium: thanks for you work, and for calling me
<tritium> no problem :)
* dholbach high fives tritium
<mako> so.. 
<dredg> mako: i take it that you didn't get the SMS's i sent then.
<mako> i'm going to try to corner elmo and kamion tomorrow
* dredg larts his provider
<dredg> cruddy irish tat
<diamond> dredg: aren't you asleep already?
<mako> dredg: did you send email or proper sms?
<dredg> mako: proper sms
<mako> dredg: hmm.. i send and recieve those internationally all the time.. 
<dredg> mako: yeah, i blame my provider
<crimsun> it'll probably arrive when you're downunder
<dredg> mako: meh, someone got hold of you which is the important thing
<dholbach> when will next meeting be?
<mako> dholbach: not sure.. asap
<dholbach> will the semi-approved guys be notified somehow or will they have to show up next time as well?
<dredg> diamond: no, seems the 35mins i got earlier has broken me
<diamond> dredg: ug
<dredg> diamond: *shrug*
<schweeb> does it matter if I show up for the next meeting, since my wiki page is fine?  It's likely it'll be scheduled while I'm unavailable (which is now 75% of the day)
<schweeb> stupid work... blocking IM and IRC now. grr.
<tritium> schweeb, mine too...
<robitaille> same here... 
<schweeb> I'll be working at DaimlerChrysler starting the 29th... I'm sure they've got all kinds of big brother stuff if I even attempt to do something out of line
<dredg> heh, i'm the network admin. i control all that stuff here :)
<siretart> dredg: definitly an advantage ;)
<schweeb> dredg: I used to be...  now I'm in charge of everything except the firewall
<tritium> I just hope the next meeting isn't Friday night, as I'll be at the U2 concert :)
<dredg> schweeb: ah, i'm in charge of writing policy as well :)
<schweeb> convenient
<schweeb> heh
<dredg> yeah, just a bit ;)
<schweeb> I can't really f around with the new job, it's a contract, so they don't need any reason to fire :-/
<schweeb> but, it's for a quite pleasurable sum of money per hour
<dredg> right, i'm going to read for an hour or so
<dredg> ttyl
<schweeb> night
<schweeb> I'm goin to sleep too
<schweeb> later
<mako> me too
<mako> thanks everyone!
<dredg> night mako 
* coastGNU would like to discuss the loco team topic, if the candidate election is done.
<tritium> Thanks mako
<diamond> sleeeep
* dredg has timed some slayer to wake him up at 9am just in case
<siretart> night schweeb and mako!
<dholbach> erm did we have a decision on a date?
<tritium> mako, let me know if you need a wakeup call ;)
<dholbach> and the re-showing-up?
<dredg> mako: let me know if you don't need a wakeup call but want someone to sms you anyway
<mako> dredg: np dude ;)
<tritium> mako, do you still plan to announce a meeting on ubuntu-news?
<tritium> no worries - I'll keep an eye out for the next meeting.  Good night...
<Kamion> garrr, sorry I missed the meeting, after lurking in the technical board meeting I totally forgot that there was a CC meeting this week AS WELL
<jdthood> Was there a meeting?  I gave up waiting for it to start at 04:30.
<aj> jdthood: only kind of; mako did a quick review of applicants to see if anyone obviously needed to do more stuff
<mako> jdthood: cool, you were there?
<jdthood> I went back to bed at 04:30.
<ogra> mako, we all were there.... ;)
<aj> mako: hey, i hear you're maybe taking the same flight from bne to cbr as me!
<mako> aj: morning of the 17th?
<aj> mako: yeah, qantas
<mako> we're on the same flight.. :)
<aj> mako: (i'm sure there were more than one, but Caesar says you're arriving at the same time too :)
<mako> yeah, 10somethingish
<aj> yup
<jdthood> mako: Are there meeting minutes or an IRC log?
<mako> there is certainly a log
<dholbach> people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<mako> no minutes yet.. i haven't decided if i'm going to make them.. it was really a proper meeting
<mako> aj: that cool.. then we'll meet at the airport for sure
<mako> i'll be mostly dead by then
<jdthood> Is there a members list for ubuntu somewhere?  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuMembers only lists five names.
<dholbach> jdthood: 6 now ;-)
<Kamion> jdthood: last I checked mako's been keeping a separate list; I thought it was on his list to update that
<Kamion> (or obsolete it)
<mako> jdthood: there is a seperate list in a gpg signed text file
<mako> jdthood: i will publish it
<trulux> heya
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-17
<Hirvinen> aaa
<Hirvinen> Whoops.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
* bur[n] er wonders wtf UTC is compared to MST
<azeem> @schedule MST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for MST: 12 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu
<bur[n] er> :)
<flint> good morning campers... we have sun but no coffee on this morning in Vermont
<ogra> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<ogra> @schedule CET
<Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu
<flint> ogra, Oliver i am early, I am going to make coffee or nap for another bit.
<ogra> :)
<flint> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<ogra> you need to give it your timezone as argument
<flint> @schedule EST
<ogra> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 12 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 09:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:00: Xubuntu
<ogra> :)
<ogra> wow, its early at your place :)
<flint> oh yea...
<JaneW> flint: I was early too
<JaneW> there must be something in the air
<JaneW> ogra is the only one fully awake today
<flint> JaneW, mornin' darling, it ain't the smell of coffee... the child is healthy?
<JaneW> flint: hopefully getting there
<JaneW> although I had a serious relapse yesterday
<JaneW> the day had started so promisingly...
<flint> you all know that I had to get a job... this is taking up an inordinant amount of my spare time... worse than an afliction imho...
<flint> JaneW, sorry to hear about the back...
<JaneW> flint: does that mean you got a job?
<flint> JaneW, my wife does pelates to combat back pain.
<JaneW> flint: I fear this is a sign of my increasing age taking it's toll
<JaneW> flint: I do yoga
* JaneW LOL at the guy who complained about my dapper status update meeting reminder.
<flint> JaneW, I work for a php firm called code4design  took them to LinuxWorld and I am in the process of getting them loaded on IBM zSeries Mainframes...
<JaneW> flint: interesting
<JaneW> flint: from Vermont?
<flint> JaneW, work from my little house in Vermont.  I needed the money...
<flint> :^)
<flint> JaneW, if i hadn't pissed off the other Jane, I might have been involved with the Montreal mafia, this is a user support job just the same...
<JaneW> flint:  yes I imagine she is no longer in your fan club!
<flint> JaneW, Not like i was shy and did not try... :^)
<ogra> what did you do to her ? 
<flint> JaneW, it is probably better this way.
<JaneW> flint: hey you spoke your mind...
<flint> ogra, Ollie when I keep you out of the line of fire, just enjoy your foxhole :^)
<JaneW> you may have been smoking crack at the time...
<JaneW> but still
<flint> JaneW, scratch the surface of me and find an idealist.
* JaneW contemplates entering 'Survivor'
<JaneW> I need some excitement
<flint> lol
<flint> JaneW, I do what i can to entertain...
<flint> b back soon...
<Seveas> JaneW, admit it, you just want to train your whip on innocent Ubuntu users 
<JaneW> Seveas: damn you foiled my thinly veiled plot!
<Seveas> JaneW, look at the banlist in #ubuntu, there are some willing test subjects 
<JaneW> Seveas: ooh
* JaneW cracks knuckles
<ajmitch> Seveas: we've always known that
<ajmitch> JaneW has been perfectly willing to wield that whip
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ogra> ajmitch, only if there are willing victims offering themselves :)
<ajmitch> like the whole dev team :)
<ogra> :)
* Hobbsee runs and hides :P
<Hobbsee> i must say, that ubuntu banlist is pretty impressive...
* flint returns with coffee...
<flint> Hobbsee, how does one read the banlist maybe /banlist?
<Hobbsee> flint: /mode #ubuntu b
<flint> Hobbsee, thanks... wilco
* Hobbsee has had to learn such things, to respond quickly to...um...painful users...
<Hobbsee> #kubuntu list is also rather impressive...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<JaneW> ajmitch: hey it's not my fault thay are all S&M fetishists
<JaneW> but it helps...
<ogra> we just didnt know before we met you  ;)
<flint> JaneW, we love being obedient to Mistress Jane, and appreciate the punishment...
<flint> ...That said let us begin our deliberations... :^)
* Hobbsee rolls her eyes
<JaneW> ok who is here?
* ogra hides
* Hobbsee shuts up as well, seeing that the meeting is starting :P
* flint thinks that this is not a question to answer in the negative...
<JaneW> Hobbsee: you are welcome to participate, if you haqve an interest in Edubuntu
<JaneW> -q
<ogra> absolutely !
<JaneW> anyone else here for the edubuntu meeting?
<flint> indubidably...(sp?)
<JaneW> seems to be the usual guilty suspects
* juliux here
<ogra> do we wait 5 mins or do we start ? 
<JaneW> hi juliux 
<juliux> hi JaneW 
* apokryphos has come to observe :)
<JaneW> I think we should wait 2 mins
* Hobbsee will observe as well
<ogra> ok
* bimberi is lurking
<Hobbsee> you cant use the standard "if hobbsee is here, then everyone is, because hobbsee's always the latest" here though...
<Hobbsee>  /offtopic
<JaneW> ogra: since your 2 min updates are usually the meat that the meeting chews on for most of the rest of the time...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i have not much this week ...
<flint> JaneW, in elkners defense, the little whiner is likely teaching class, probably on a flight 6 system...
<JaneW> highvoltage, you here?
<ogra> flint, crazy guy
<JaneW> flint: great, so he is actively testing
<Hobbsee> JaneW: do you have a meeting agenda, that you'll be using today?
<Hobbsee> i'm not terribly familiar with edubuntu, or it's meetings
<JaneW> Hobbsee: we have a standard (very loose) format
<JaneW> start with tech discussion
<JaneW> move to documentation
<JaneW> then artowrk
<JaneW> artwork even
<Hobbsee> ok, cool, thanks
<JaneW> then community and other
* Hobbsee isnt even noticing the spelling errors :P
<flint> Hobbsee, note the use of the term "very loose"
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords#head-5e7f70a61c134d6b4d43164288d5c686da158155
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ogra> Hobbsee, ^^
<Hobbsee> thanks very much ogra 
<JaneW> Hobbsee: sorry my typing is bad :(
<JaneW> hi freeflying-ibook 
<Hobbsee> man!  i like the red of the logo and background!  *considers a red kubuntu*
<JaneW> ok let's hit it
<freeflying-ibook> JaneW: hi
<ogra> so its five minutes after, lets start
<JaneW> Hobbsee: yeah our graphics ROCK
<Hobbsee> they do!
<ogra> Hobbsee, feel free to make kedubuntu :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<JaneW> ogra: where do we stand on the dev side?
<juliux> ogra, lol
<ogra> not much happened edubuntu wise on my desk last week ... 
<ogra> (i was mostly busy with ubuntu bugs) 
<ogra> i prepared a patch to the installer part of ltsp though, that should let us get rid of the post install editing of the dhcp config
<ogra> i also worked on a better progress reporting of the ltsp part in the installer 
<ogra> additionally i looked over highvoltages edubuntu getting started doc, which i'd like to ship by default in edubuntu-docs
<ogra> thats all i did on a tech side ... 
<JaneW> Does Edubuntu have many bugs?
<JaneW> over and above the ubuntu ones?
<ogra> a hand full 
<ogra> (~5) :)
<JaneW> sounds good
<jsgotangco> :)
<JaneW> how serious are they?
<ogra> not very
<JaneW> and think they will get fixed before the release?
<ogra> and mostly they turn out as ubuntu bugs
<juliux> what is with the alt +f7 bug? 
<JaneW> do you think this extra QA time is helping ? In general, and for edubuntu specifically?
<ogra> i havent got a bug about that yet
<ogra> not really
<ogra> edubuntu would be ready so far if we wanted it
<juliux> ogra, because we dont know where the bug is in xorg or ltsp or something else
<JaneW> things seem much more relaxed and less panicked than last time
<ogra> but indeed we build from ubuntu packages that have open bugs
<juliux> see the mail from jeff elkner
<JaneW> which is nice, but I hope we don't lose momentum and the excitement
<juliux> hi mhz 
<ogra> juliux, i refuse to read *any* mail from jeff that contains the word bug
<JaneW> hi mhz 
<juliux> ogra, ok
<mhz> hi there! sorry i am late (agan)
<juliux> ogra, i will open a bug against edubuntu
<ogra> i told him 100 ties to please file them in LP
<flint> ogra, he actually filed a bug report finally Ollie...
<JaneW> juliux: thank-you
<ogra> flint, against what ? 
<juliux> ogra, but if you dont know against which package there is a problem
<JaneW> unfortunately jelkner is not a good bug filer
<ogra> i dont see any bugreport from him
<JaneW> but he is a useful tester
<jsgotangco> you dont need to know what specific package is to file in rosaetta
<JaneW> so if anyone can help to file the bugs he finds that would be very helpful
<jsgotangco> you can put it blank
<flint> I believe he told me against edubuntu... I will backtrack and verify based upon this.
<JaneW> ogra: agreed? ^
<ogra> juliux, if in doubt, file it against edubuntu-meta and i'll push it to the right package
<juliux> ogra, ok
<jsgotangco> a triage team will then direct it accordingly
<ogra> 99% of the bugs are ubuntu bugs anyway
<JaneW> yes as long as a bug is filed ogra can do something with it, please don;t expect ogra to file all the bugs himself
<spacey> hi
<spacey> sorry i'm late
<JaneW> hi spacey 
<jsgotangco> can anyone specify the exact bug #
<ogra> JaneW, i dont care about filing them myself as long as i dont have to read a several pages big email to find one line at the end that tells me about the bug
<JaneW> ogra: fair enough
<ogra> ok, so much from the tech side ....
<ogra> i have something else ...
<JaneW> ok so either file a big or send a concise and clear description of it to ogra (pref with steps to reproduce?)
<JaneW> ogra: yes?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> big=bug
<ogra> malone is always preferred indeed
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members
<ogra> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<JaneW> yes bug to be filed in MALONE
<JaneW> oops sorry
<ogra> we have CC powers !!!
<JaneW> do that again, I won;t mess it up ;P
<mhz> JaneW: is there a EdubuntuHowToFileABug (mini instructions)
<ogra> (or something like that)
<ogra> mhz, there is HelpingWithBugs that should totally suffice
<flint> ogra, nice touch the arrows... 
<JaneW> mhz: good point but we should pull it from ubuntu, as it's no different
<JaneW> ogra: was that decides at last nights CC?
<JaneW> decided
<mhz> ogra: okis, JaneW, then agree if I make that page and link it to HelpingWithBugs?
<ogra> so we have a launchpad team now that enables us to approve members like the CC does 
<JaneW> mhz: perfect thanks ! :)
<flint> ogra, I swear a mighty oath that elkner said he "maloned" the bug he found.  I will get to the bottom of this. I have emailed him just now.
<ogra> additionally all members of that team will have @edubuntu.org mailadresses
<JaneW> ogra: do we have a clear process for that?
<JaneW> w00t!
<ogra> i think the usual CC process applies here
<jsgotangco> heh another spam bait forwarder lol
<ogra> so you need to be a member already or comply to the rules to become a member to join that team
<mhz> cool
<juliux> ogra, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/39294 i hope my english isnt to bad
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39294 in edubuntu-meta "No ldm login on the thinclient" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<mhz> good marketing/encouraging people feature
<ogra> so we'll take the big crowd of edubuntu member applicants from the CC in the future :P
<ogra> juliux, thanks !
<JaneW> juliux: thanks
<JaneW> games of chance are fun! :)
<mhz> juliux: your english is not so buggy :D
<JaneW> (sorry I was channeling flint for a second)
<JaneW> ok artwork
<ogra> the question with that team is, how do we want to handle it ? 
<JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
<ogra> we'll need meetings like the CC meeting to review and approve people 
<JaneW> oops sorry, we still busy with the other topic
<flint> JaneW, I do pretty well, considering I am a native speaker... :^)
<ogra> JaneW and i both agree that we dont want an additional meeting on our schedule
<mhz> ogra: but these Edubuntu Council :D meetings could be held every 3 weeks or every 2 weeks?
<JaneW> possibly monthly initially
<ogra> so the proposal was to have the meeting we have now on a two week schedule instead of weekly and have a ECC meeting in the new two week gap
<JaneW> depends on the volume of discussion
<JaneW> is once ever 2 weeks enough for dev meetings?
<ogra> i guess monthly would be anough as well
<JaneW> esp in a normal dev cycle which is much faster
<flint> JaneW, while you may laugh at this discussion of empowerment, I would like to propose to the CC that they set up a certification in edubuntu...
<ogra> i think in the beginnig we can start with reviewing people who want to join the team once a month additionally to that meeting without changing the schedule
<JaneW> LOL
<mhz> flint: but let's 1st finish Ubuntu Certifiaction ;)
<JaneW> flint: you are kidding right?
<ogra> later we can make them 2 weekly
<JaneW> ogra: I agree with that
<jsgotangco> flint: that's hardly needed, edubuntu is ubuntu :P
<flint> JaneW, no.  mhz separate and distinct from the cannonical ubuntu certification.
<ogra> so lets say every first meeting in a month we do our approval
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<flint> jsgotangco, no it is very different. ask Olli
<JaneW> ogra: it will need to be listed  clearly in an agenda
<ogra> yes, we'll need an agenda like CC and TB have
<mhz> ogra: +1
<JaneW> ogra: so #1 will be the first week of May
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> +1
<JaneW> done, I guess
<flint> JaneW, I would propose that membership and certification be based upon contribution.  This would motivate people to get things accomplished (beyond Oliver and yourself)
<ogra> yup, done
<jsgotangco> ogra: cheater you only look at edubuntu-meta :P
<JaneW> flint: you still seem confussed about what certification means
<ogra> flint, the same rules apply as they do for ubuntu members
<ogra> the process is well documented
<JaneW> ogra: we'll need to put something on the wiki
<ogra> jsgotangco, ?
<ogra> yup
<flint> JaneW, cannonical certification is a commercial certificaiton. i am not confused even though I am a bitter old man.
<ogra> but we only need to link to the appropriate ubuntu pages
<JaneW> flint: it's not an internal qualification
<flint> JaneW, the qualification would come from the edubuntu council.
<JaneW> and means nothing (or is not nec relevent)here in our community
<flint> the community certifies the practictioner.
<JaneW> flint: anyway we can discuss that further in the ECC meetings
<JaneW> agreed?
<flint> done
<JaneW> ty
<JaneW> ok artwork
<mhz> hehehe
<JaneW> are we any nearer to anything artwork wise?
<JaneW> did anyone manage to get anything out of toxictoadz?
<JaneW> I don't think so
* jsgotangco raises hand
<JaneW> which means we still don;t have our young/naive background
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: do i still get to do the Firefox page?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: the about edubuntu page?
<jsgotangco> or do we stick to Ubuntu page
<ogra> jsgotangco, go go go !
<JaneW> yes, I'd say so
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that's easy i could whip it up starting tommorow (holidays)
<JaneW> or rather any reason why not to do it?
<mhz> nomed: hey! welcome!
<jsgotangco> JaneW: the Ubuntu FF homepage are now translated
<JaneW> I think it's def appropriate to have it
<nomed> hi mhz 
<JaneW> and we can have edubuntu spec stuff and links
<flint> welcome nomed
<mhz> nomed: we are just starting to discuss about edubuntu artwork
<JaneW> jsgotangco: if you can do it please do
<Florob> Wouldn't that break doc freeze somehow?
<ogra> jsgotangco, as long as we can still use an untranslated version, all is fine
<JaneW> I think mhz would be happy to help with translations
<jsgotangco> Florob: not at all
<ogra> Florob, edubuntu has no doc freeze
<JaneW> mhz? ^
<ogra> we shoot ourselves in the foot with that 
<mhz> JaneW: +1
<JaneW> wasn;t there a technical constraint with it last time?
<ogra> *we'd
<Florob> didn't no you're THAT seperate from ubuntu
<JaneW> mhz: +10 :)
<mhz> JaneW: however, afaik, 'es' is already done. Sure, I can help on edubuntu.es for firefox
<ogra> Florob, we arent, but we'll use the extended time to finish up missing docs, that was claer from the beginning
<JaneW> mhz: yes for edubuntu.es
<highvoltage> sorry, i have a local meeting here and will miss most of this meeting, but will catch up later
<ogra> if the docteam wants to restrict itself, its allowed to do that, we wont :)
<Florob> ogra, didn't know that, thanks
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok, quickly, did you hear from toxictoadz??
<ogra> highvoltage, local meetings are overrated
<juliux> highvoltage, where is edubuntugirl?
<JaneW> ogra: but not attending can be a CLM
<mhz> JaneW: okis, I'll follow jsgotangco lead (again)
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> mhz: super thanks
* JaneW wants the edubuntu children of the world background finished
<ogra> juliux, that can wait until after release, we have some release critical things first ;)
<JaneW> can we use it as is if we have to?
<juliux> hmpf
<ogra> why not
<JaneW> it is a bit too bright and busy I'll admit, it would be better adjusted
<flint> edubuntugirl somebody is making this up...
<JaneW> unless someone wants to creat some new and wonderful designs
<JaneW> flint: NOT handicapped ducks though
<ogra> i'd be fine with using it 
* JaneW too
* mhz has no clue what you are talking about.... tooo many days off the team, so it seems.
<ogra> its a bit small though
<JaneW> oic
<ogra> (1024x786)
* JaneW looks for link
<flint> JaneW, harsh, very harsh ( god i love that duck! \:^)
* mhz loves JaneW once more ;)
<ogra> but smalle pics are eating less space :)
<JaneW> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/76
<JaneW> ogra: is it not resizable?
<JaneW> in all it;s glory http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
<ogra> sure it is, but scaling up looses quality
<JaneW> flint: it may make him blind, but jelkner can't complain about lack of diversity there....
<mhz> toxi... is TOOO much "in your face"
<ogra> having the svg and exporting it at 1600x1200 would be better
* jsgotangco trolls on the wallpaper..she's to chinky eyed!
<JaneW> ok I'll mail the creator again, and see if I can get him to respond
* mhz has troubles understanding why people do not upload "source files" (svg?)
<flint> JaneW, I kinda like the "Its A Small World After All" (IASWAA) theme of it.
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, and there is not *one* blue kid among them !!
<spacey> thats an awful wallpaper
* JaneW kicks jsgotangco in the shin - don't start!
<ogra> spacey, thats fine for the kids theme ... we wont use it by default
<JaneW> spacey: get a better one then
<JaneW> yes please note this is not for the default install
<flint> jsgotangco, everyone is a critic. Ars Gratia Artes...
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco , heheheh
<spacey> i have no creative/art talent unfortunately :P
<JaneW> it's for the younger look option
<ogra> spacey, but you work in a school ... poke your arts teacher ;)
<mhz> JaneW: so default will be...?
<ogra> mhz, NN
<JaneW> spacey: how old are the kids there?
<flint> jsgotangco, if we are going to get critical that tree in the back is pretty phalic... :^)
<mhz> NN?
<JaneW> spacey: are you involved with little kids or older students only?
<ogra> not nominated
<spacey> ogra: uh 4-16
<jsgotangco> flint: hahaha
<spacey> primary school
<jsgotangco> flint: and bushy
<JaneW> spacey: cool, well please can you show the pic to some of them and get some responses and feedback
<spacey> with some special education
<ogra> spacey, perfect !
<JaneW> i.e. do they love or hate it
<spacey> JaneW: sure can
<JaneW> we need something that appeals to 6-10 year olds
<spacey> are there more pics then the happy rainbow one?
<flint> I want to take up a collection to get the white kid and the asian girl eyes...
<ogra> nope, not yet
<JaneW> and crosses gender, culture and language borders etc
<ogra> we should probably do a call on the ML
<JaneW> spacey: not at the moment, but you can show them our original edubuntu girl too
<spacey> i have the feeling there are no artistic souls at the school we use edubuntu
<spacey> JaneW: they already know that one
<JaneW> this is all we have so far http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/
<flint> JaneW, the real question is not whether it will appeal to a bunch of geeks (no offense intended :^) but if this art will appeal to teachers and students...
<spacey> i like that one :)
<JaneW> we'd welcome more submissions though
<jsgotangco> they seem to use macs 
* jsgotangco hides
<JaneW> ok so everyone show artwork to ppl, and get responses and or submissions of better stuff
<jsgotangco> what happened to consigned artwork?
<spacey> argh art.ubuntu.com doesn't work with lunchpad logins?
<JaneW> we don;t want more articles saying 'nice distro, sucky wall paper'
<jsgotangco> spacey: aye, we're slimy bastards
<JaneW> alhtough to be honest I think edubuntu girl is the strongest part of our identity now, so I stand by that decision still!
<JaneW> we will have a professionally designed wallpaper for the default install
<JaneW> we haven;t seen it yet
<spacey> i like edubuntu girl wallpaper
<jsgotangco> JaneW: try the current ubuntu wallpaper heh
<spacey> jsgotangco: that one sucks imo :)
<jsgotangco> it has a nice jigsaw puzzle
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I haven't seen it...
<flint> JaneW, I am so glad that art is not my department...
<jsgotangco> spacey: you'll have to thank dholbach's brother for that :)
* JaneW will put my son's latest drawing up. I asked him to draw a picture of his holiday
<JaneW> and he produced a pencil drawing of him vomiting spectacularly. Clearly that's his current strongest memeory ;)
<flint> JaneW, where send a url.
<spacey> :>
<JaneW> fun
<ogra> can we get it as a wallpaper ?
<jsgotangco> i approve fully of your son then
<JaneW> ok let's see if we can more of an artwork pool to draw from (pun intended)
<flint> jsgotangco, got my vote...
<JaneW> so if you know anyone creative start nagging them
<ogra> JaneW, mailing list :)
<JaneW> you can e-mail the stuff to me if you don't want to log into art.u.c....
* jsgotangco is pretty good at 5 minute gimp jobs that look like processed mustard
<JaneW> jsgotangco: so is ogra!
<JaneW> :P
<ogra> haha
<JaneW> ok what else?
<JaneW> we have a cookbook meeting following this
<jsgotangco> yeah don't go to the art.u.c route its too much pain at the moment
<JaneW> we could stay here if the flow is good and we are not in the way
<JaneW> else it will be in #edubuntu-cookbook
<ogra> there is a xubuntu meeting in 1h
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I have an admin login on art.u.c afaik, so I can post stuff there, we might as well use it...
<mhz> JaneW: sorry I was on phone.. JaneW any of your kids near 6-10 years old?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: so do i but approval is a pain
<ogra> but i'd really prefer to use a public and logged channel
<JaneW> ogra: ok let's stick to #e-cookbook
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes both. 4 and 6
<juliux> if somebody wants to come to the linuxtag www.linuxtag.org in wiesbaden/germany, i have 57 onedaytickets for free!
<ogra> cant we just do it in #edubuntu ? 
<JaneW> jsgotangco: so I have testers right here
* ogra has to talk there about edubuntu and suspects he doent need a ticket
<JaneW> ogra: I suppose, but then we will be in the way of ppl asking support questions
<ogra> *doesnt
<jsgotangco> linuxtag!
<juliux> ogra, sure ? ;)
<ogra> JaneW, we can bear that 
<mhz> JaneW: so, could ask them what things they like to see in a background or something like that? I will ask my kids too (4 and 9)
<ogra> juliux, not really :)
<JaneW> mhz: yes
<mhz> juliux: I do!
<flint> mhz, that is a good idea.
<ogra> JaneW, i'd just like to be able to look up what we talked about in 3 months 
<juliux> mhz, you are coming to germany?
<JaneW> however my oldest son (of vomit picture) skews the stats
<JaneW> I showed him edubuntu-mustard vs edubuntu-girl and he liked the MUSTARD!
<ogra> yay!
<jsgotangco> lol
<JaneW> *shakes head*
<jsgotangco> i would like to say your son has...
<ogra> mustard for *all* OSes !!!!
<jsgotangco> excellent taste?
<Seveas> maybe he's just in the i-hate-girls phase 
<mhz> juliux: nope...sorry, I is just that I'd love to go. Esp. because we are having a big event on June here in chile and would like some to get extra ideas
<JaneW> Seveas: you may be right :)
<ogra> microsoft mustard, the successor of vista !
<jsgotangco> are we continuing here?
<ogra> lets make the room free for xubuntu ...
* ogra opens a window to let the sweat and smoke out
<mhz> JaneW: hehehehehe, sure that happens, that is why we need more kids to see. Actually, I can talk to a junior teacher (for 3 to 5 years old kids) about it too. No worry, we'll get to a solution.
<JaneW> great thanks
<JaneW> ok next week please bring your art projects with you :)
<JaneW> anything else?
<JaneW> does anyone else want to speak?
<jsgotangco> my 4 year old doesn't even see the difference she sees the logo its all ubuntu for her
<ogra> juliux seem to have opened the edubuntu marketing team :)
<JaneW> else break for coffee for 5 mins
<juliux> ogra, if you mean
<Florob> While that is not the reason I was hear I have a suggestion (but maybe that's more appropriate for ML or whishlist bug)
<ogra> we have a wonderful concept with real prices etc (sorry, german): http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/Konzept
<juliux> *grummel*
<mhz> JaneW: what if we took pictures of kids at schools. Could we use these pictures for backgrounds?
<ogra> (a draft indeed)
<ogra> juliux, ?
<jsgotangco> wow
<Kinnison> mhz: You'd have to get signed waivers from the parents of every kid involved
<jsgotangco> an all-in one package
<Hobbsee> i'm kind of wishing i was still at school now - school is thinking of making a computer lab of computers with suse on them...
<ogra> jsgotangco, yep
<juliux> ogra, it isnt ready
<jsgotangco> ogra: that's nice...
<juliux> in the next days i will do it with old pc as clients
<ogra> juliux, but announcing it will help ghetting it in other languages with other local prices ;)
<juliux> and with dualcore server
<mhz> Kinnison: sure. Maybe we could have a series of pictures of kids of diff ages, so we get diff backgrounds in a series.
<juliux> ogra, its ok
<ogra> juliux, it would be a nice to have for all common regions :)
<mhz> JaneW: what if we made a contest. "send us your class pictures and probaby get backgrounded for edubuntu distro" ?
<juliux> ogra, that is a lof of wark
<juliux> work
<juliux> lot
<ogra> so if someone wants to do the same, see juliux' draft
<ogra> juliux, i didnt say *you* should do it ;)
<juliux> ogra, i know
<ogra> ok, coffebrak
<ogra> *break
<mhz> JaneW: ?
<mhz> .oO(she must be getting a coffee and a muffin)
<highvoltage> JaneW: no :(
<freeflying> ogra: anything relate with CJK need we do ?
<freeflying> ogra: in edubuntu
<ogra> no idea, i have no feedback at all from CJK users yet
<JaneW> I'm back
<JaneW> where are we going?
<ogra> (no bugs but also no success reports)
* ogra votes for #edubuntu
<freeflying> ogra: how about the difault font in edubuntu
<freeflying> s/difault/default
<ogra> freeflying, ah, damned i forgot about that, we'll need to change it, it has utf8 issues 
<ogra> the "normal" fonts are the same as in ubuntu (we cut down the amount of shipped fonts but the defauklt is the same)
<ogra> we only differ in the default desktop font
<freeflying> ogra: how about use one chinese font, drop out the exist four 
<JaneW> mhz: nice idea
<JaneW> ok cookbook meeting in #edubuntu now
<ogra> freeflying, we have <200K free space on the CD would that fit ? 
<freeflying> ogra: where is the seeds of edubuntu
<ogra> same place as the seeds of ubuntu
<ogra> in colins home on people.u.c
<freeflying> ogra: now only need keep ttf-arphic-uming
<freeflying> ogra: you may grop ttf-arphic-ukai out 
<freeflying> s/grop/drop out
<ogra> ok
<ogra> that should gain us some space i guess
<freeflying> hope will save some space for edubuntu
<ogra> yeah :)
<bur[n] er> doh, i'm late!
<Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, non non :)
<Gloubiboulga> s/non/no/g
<bur[n] er> cool, in that case, has anyone else seen the issue where you can't get the gtk theme away from orange... no matter what theme I pick, my titlebar stays orange... i think it happened when i installed kubuntu
<bur[n] er> er... i'm referring to xubuntu, not edubuntu
<Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, please report the bug on malone :)
<nomed> bur[n] er, $HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 ?
<bur[n] er> well, i don't wanna produce a crappy bug report... i'm not sure what causes it] 
<bur[n] er> nomed: i have that file... i suppose it could be the cause, but gtk isn't b0rked in gnome
<nomed> bur[n] er, what's the path of include "?"
<bur[n] er> /usr/share/themes/Human/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<bur[n] er> is that my problem you think?
<nomed> possible
<bur[n] er> this is minor anyway... i wanted to put the idea of changing the xfce icon theme out there since "rodent" is fugly ;)
<janimo> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> bur[n] er, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda << we'll discuss this :)
<nomed> bur[n] er, we'll discuss it in a while :)
<janimo> the changing of icon theme from rodent is planned
<Gloubiboulga> hi Jani
<janimo> shall we start now?
<nomed> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<nomed> i'm ready
<janimo> ok 1)xarchiver
<nomed> ok
<janimo> just saw a mail on xfce-devel
<janimo> they are heavily rewriting it seems
<janimo> I wonder if it will be ready on time
<nomed> janimo, yes
<nomed> but even improving it
<nomed> they'll not use glade file anymore for ex
<janimo> any ETA?
<Meyer> eheheh
<nomed> janimo, now it doesn't depend on "old" upstreamers ..
<nomed> well just on them
<janimo> "old"? 
<janimo> what is new now?
<nomed> janimo, yes ... there are 2 more 
<janimo> when do you think we could package it?
<nomed> one is fixing the gui 
<janimo> if they get it ready in a month it may be too late for dapper :(
<nomed> janimo, they told me last week ..
<nomed> janimo, i know
<janimo> I'd have prefrerred a fixed 0.3.x release 
<nomed> i'm waitin an answer from upstreamer
<janimo> so we can package/review/main/CD
<nomed> janimo, me too
<janimo> I think I'll upload 0.3.9 you packaged last time
<janimo> so we go in parallel with reviewing
<nomed> as soon as they'll answer i'll send a mail to xubuntu-devel
<janimo> or do they rewrite it all?
<janimo> ok thanks
<nomed> janimo, that would be the best i guess
<janimo> what they seem to be doing now is optimising
<janimo> xarchiver already seemed pretty fast and useful
<nomed> yes
<janimo> ok 2)icon theme
<janimo> any news from tango artists?
<janimo> tango is now in main we could just make that default and be done
<nomed> janimo, he's working on some icons
<nomed> janimo, i think we can have a complete xubuntu-tango icons theme
<bur[n] er> i'm all for tango as the default :)  it was the compelling reason to be here this morning
<janimo> nomed, ETA?
<nomed> but as i'm not the one workin on it ... i can just report what he told me
<janimo> yes, but we should know how to plan as we are getting short on time
<nomed> janimo, "soon"
<nomed> janimo, i know 
<janimo> most changes going into xubuntu are getting as restricted as the rest if we want a quality release
<nomed> but we can't do anything more then wait
<janimo> that's what canonical wants too, so we cannot keep on adding features sadly :)
<nomed> and use ROdent in case it'll not be ready
<bur[n] er> even tango-icon-theme package as it stands now is better than rodent
<janimo> nomed, well I'll add tango to default install anyway
<janimo> nomed, defaut tangoi is surely better no than rodent?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> so I'll add that 
<nomed> janimo, what i'll do is to create links to missing icon names
<nomed> in case new icons will not be ready ..
<nomed> i checked it and most of the icons are already there
<janimo> do you know of icons in tango-icon-theme which are missing for xfce?
<nomed> if you do not consider xfce4-terminal pref icons for ex
<janimo> is that not app specific?
<janimo> as long as we have a consistent and complete icon theme I'm content
<nomed> http://foo-projects.org/~jasper/ICONTHEMES
<nomed> janimo, mainly it's just a problem of creating links to existing icons ..
<nomed> as most of them have just different names
<nomed> if not all ..
<janimo> ok
<janimo> do we need to create this is the tango icon package?
<janimo> taking it up with upstream tango?
<janimo> or solved within xfce somehow?
<nomed> janimo, two ways
<janimo> the icons I noticed missing are suspend hibernate
<nomed> 1) send patches to upstreamers ..  as
<nomed> icons and missing icon-naming entry in the "spec"
<nomed> 2) have the xubuntu icons theme including just those icons
<nomed> janimo, i'll ask to lapo
<nomed> and i'll try to get him here for next meeting
<janimo> 2) should matter for upstream xfce I guess
<janimo> so for 1) there are icon names in xfce which may have to get into the naming spec right?
<nomed> it would be better yes
<nomed> but not needed 
<nomed> janimo, i would just be able to use inkscape
<nomed> really
<nomed> :)
<janimo> do you think it's hard to convince tango upstream?
<janimo> or why do we have to consider our own package?
<nomed> janimo, well ...
<nomed> better to consider our own
<janimo> xfce upstreams position should matter on this, I am not clear about it
<nomed> and see if it'll be possible to include them in tango if posible
<nomed> janimo, benny told me he would be happy to have xfce icons included in those specs
<nomed> but there are too much variables here
<nomed> xfce upsrteamer ..
<nomed> tango and spec upstreamer
<nomed> xubuntu artist
<janimo> we should not be a variable here, just use best of what upstreams agreed upon 
<nomed> at this stage we should take care of xubuntu-icons 
<janimo> xubuntu artist should do additional not replacement  work
<nomed> yes
<janimo> well but if they are not ready we cannot do that :)
<nomed> janimo, the additional work could be then included into official releases ..
<nomed> of spec and icons
<nomed> as the artist is involved in tango proj
<janimo> yes, that's what I am saying, but included so we can use it. not after we include it
<janimo> which icons are we missing do you have a list?
<janimo> that link above?
<nomed> that's one link yes
<nomed> and here the one other ..
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:XfceTheme
<nomed> janimo, mainly there are those two you told
<janimo> suspend/hibernate?
<nomed> yes
<nomed> and one icon for the pager
<nomed> and taskbar too if i'm not wrong
<janimo> we won't make a new icon package just for 3 icons?! :)
<nomed> janimo, no that's sure :)
<janimo> panel plugin icons?
<nomed> janimo, yep
<Gloubiboulga> there's a lot of missing icons for the plugins
<janimo> suspend/hibernate will probably be local to xfce4-session since the other icons in the dialog are there so that's checked
<nomed> but from what i've understood those icons are needed even for other DMs
<nomed> Gloubiboulga, yep ..
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: yes, or more likely their desktop file does not reference them
<janimo> susp/hib is not in the spec now so it definitely post dapper anyway
<nomed> but taskbar and pager could be considered as general DMs icons
<nomed> more then apps icons
<janimo> app specific ones we solve in apps
<janimo> nomed, where do taskbar and pager need to show up? so I can check what we are missing now
* jsgotangco raises hand
<janimo> jsgotangco: this is not edubuntu :)
<janimo> you have to wiggle your mouse tail
<jsgotangco> heh just one quick Q
<janimo> to conform to _our_ logo :)
<jsgotangco> janimo: are you still going to derive gnome-app-install?
<nomed> janimo, i'm refering to icons that are in Settings manager
<janimo> jsgotangco: if someone gets to do it maybe
<janimo> are you pro or con?
<nomed> janimo, those icons are hardcoded somehow ...
<jsgotangco> janimo: ok if its get done, ping me up i'll update the help files
<nomed> we'll need to patch it i guess ..
<janimo> nomed, oh yes those need fixing
* jsgotangco would like to see something like that for xubuntu
<janimo> jsgotangco: you need it for documenting it?
<nomed> they use just icons from hicolor theme
<nomed> if i'm not wrong
<jsgotangco> janimo: change strings too if needed
* jsgotangco checks latest bzr
<janimo> jsgotangco: ok then. I'll see to it.it should be easier to do than update-manager
<janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> janimo: its the start of the holidays so plenty of time to look into such
<janimo> :)
<jsgotangco> on my side
<janimo> nomed, those icons in settings manager need to be bugs against that package upstream if they do not work 
<janimo> so they make fallback for them or correct the paths
<janimo> I noticed preferred apps does not have icon here
<freeflying> sorry , who is incharge of xubuntu's seed 
<janimo> freeflying: me
<freeflying> janimo: do you hae anyproblem with cd space ?
<janimo> yes, too much free space
<janimo> :)
<freeflying> s/hae/have
<nomed> janimo, it's because that icons ahs been removed from tango icon theme ..
<nomed> if you're using it
<freeflying> janimo: then , okey 
<nomed> benny is the only one using the spec
<janimo> nomed, recently?
<nomed> not really
<janimo> freeflying: what do you want to suggest for the CD?
<nomed> but that icon exists .. we'll need just to add it again ..
<freeflying> janimo: I worried about the space firstly , now It's okey 
<janimo> nomed, they must have had a reason to remove it?
<nomed> janimo, sure .. but i do not know
<janimo> freeflying: we're at 435M out of 650-700 so we're doing well
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<janimo> will probably add more stuff 
<nomed> it was the package-manager icon
<janimo> nomed, is that icon present in rodent?
<freeflying> janimo: then add language-pack for zh_CN :)
<nomed> janimo, i do not think
<nomed> it was in the old spec
<janimo> freeflying: sure. We'll add many language packs, right now is whatever I merged from ubuntu seeds.
<janimo> Do ubuntu not ship zh_CN on CD?
<freeflying> janimo: not support-pack
<janimo> freeflying: do chinese users need OOo too ?
<nomed> janimo, are u sure it's not in exo pkge ?
<freeflying> janimo: ya, 
<freeflying> janimo: you wanna use OOo in xubuntu ? 
<janimo> nomed, did not look
<nomed> http://svn.xfce.org/svn/xfce/libexo/trunk/icons/48x48/preferences-desktop-default-applications.png
<nomed> janimo, yes it is
<nomed> malone ? :)
<nomed> it was just a concidence :)
<janimo> nomed, so why does setting dialog not pick it up?
<janimo> freeflying: not installing OO by default, but since there is space on the CD it will probably be shipped.
<freeflying> janimo: why not goffice 
<nomed> janimo, i think you forgot to install it
<janimo> since I understood that it's the only office that has decent asian langiage support
<janimo> nomed, oh in that case cool I'll fix it
<janimo> :)
<nomed> ehehe
<janimo> freeflying: we install abiword by default
<janimo> and hopefully gnumeric too soon
<janimo> but I understood they do not handle well at least the Indian languages 
<freeflying> janimo: if I decide , I will use koffice , :) ,but it's xubuntu 
<freeflying> janimo: same for Chinese
<janimo> freeflying: so we install goffice because it's small and probably ship OOo just in case
<janimo> nomed, so the conclusion is: add tango to xubuntu default now
<janimo> keep in touch with tango artist
<nomed> janimo, i'll do that
<janimo> ok, thanks
<nomed> but i'n not the one that can use inkscape ...
<janimo> I wonder if xfce upstream devs seem to use tango why do they still keep rodent as default in release
<nomed> i can't promise anything ...
<nomed> even if i feel i can trust that guy
<janimo> nomed, why do you need to use inkscape? :)
<nomed> janimo, to tell you ... we'll have tango complete and ready for xubuntu
<nomed> :)
<nomed> but i can't
<janimo> ah, np
<janimo> I think we will have it complete but maybe not too shiny
<janimo> tango-icon-them + fixes in our apps shoukld be enough
<nomed> yep .. i think so
<bur[n] er> == leaps and bounds better than rodent ;)
<janimo> we just have to avoid missing/broken incons
<janimo> I prefer the gnome/human icon theme I think :)
<janimo> at least for the showdesktop icon
<janimo> that;s the only one I am sure changes between themes :)
<janimo> the others I do not always notice
<janimo> ok 3) color theme poll
<nomed> ohhh ... 
<janimo> seems like blue is ok after all 
<nomed> this stuff is driving me crazy
<nomed> janimo, yep
<janimo> nomed ?
<nomed> +1 for me
<nomed> janimo, it needs to be better organized
<janimo> since nobody came forward with green or steel
<janimo> otr anything else
<janimo> nomed, one page per colour theme in the wiki
<janimo> do you think something more elaborate?
<janimo> hi luzi
<luzi> hi guys! just finished class...
<nomed> hi luzi
<nomed> janimo, if we'll have a pool
<nomed> we can't have wiki pages showing same stuff 
<nomed> i mean
<janimo> poll would just link to the pages
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuLook
<nomed> luzi, has been the first one to add stuff :)
<janimo> oh so steel has proponents
<janimo> good
<nomed>    DapperXubuntLookProposalGray <-- here
<nomed> if each person will have his own page i guess it could be a caos
* bur[n] er votes for luzi's contribution :)
<janimo> looks nice
<nomed> in case there will be many ..
<janimo> not for each person, but for each theme
<nomed> luzi, me too
<nomed> i like that very much
<janimo> if more people want steel they have to subpoll among themselves which to put forward
<janimo> I like it too
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
<nomed> here is what i proposed
<janimo> luzi, that's enough detail I think since it gives an idea
<nomed> i mean just the layout
<janimo> nomed, that's good too but the attachments do not show
<nomed> it 's important to have svgs too
<nomed> janimo, yes .. there aren't :)
<janimo> but svg or not is the same when looking at it
<nomed> you have to upload them
<janimo> we just want to see how they'd look
<janimo> ah ok
<janimo> ah ok, so this starting page and then link to the detailed pages as the steel one
<janimo> seems ok to me
<luzi> so when are we going to have the vote?
<janimo> nomed, would you announce this on the list?
<nomed> janimo, i did it already
<janimo> luzi, we should decide now when to vote
<nomed> but i guess it 's better if you do that :D
<janimo> nomed, ok not read it yet
<janimo> so let's give a few days for people to propose themes
<janimo> then have a voting for a few days
<nomed> janimo, one i wouldn't be heavy ...
<nomed> but ..
<janimo> heavy?
<nomed> we need at least one svg image of the logo
<nomed> so people can work on the same
<janimo> nomed, I see
<janimo> do we not have the original mouse in SVG?
<nomed> janimo, here is the point 
<nomed> no
<luzi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuArtwork?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_logo.svgz
<janimo> although I think a png can be modified just as fine 
<nomed> does it work for you ?
<nomed> janimo, umm
<janimo> broken link here
<nomed> let's say or gimp image or svg
<janimo> it's gzipped probbaly that;s why
<janimo> nomed, I am fine with any
<luzi> firefox tries to display it as xml, that's why. just save to file.
<janimo> I assumed people who know these tools can work with anything
<janimo> especially if it's only colour changes not anything more elaborate
<janimo> luzi, what image is the steel logo based on?
<janimo> svg?
<janimo> gray I mean
<luzi> the link i just gave
<nomed> luzi, thanks now i got it
<janimo> ok
<janimo> there's also an usplash needed
<nomed> luzi, could you attach it to that page
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme
<janimo> it would be better imho if all colour variants used the same images otherwise
<janimo> so the difference is not in other elements
<janimo> how does that sound?
<janimo> it may be that some things only 'work' with some colours I don;t know
<nomed> janimo, sure 
<nomed> that's the way in my opinion
<luzi> fine with me
<nomed> to use same "patterns" and hex colors
<janimo> anyway later on with wallpapers people have more freedom
<janimo> we need to see how the logo/usplash/gdm theme looks
<janimo> luzi, so with an usplash that entry could be complete
<luzi> i'll try to get a usplash for "gray" done 
<janimo> luzi, thanks
<nomed> i liked luzi colors since the beginning
<nomed> i could already vote for it i guess
<janimo> OT: btw does anyone else remember if in xfce 4.2 you could change kb shortcuts
<janimo> now they are greyed out
<luzi> they are not really my colors, i took them from the xfce.org page
<janimo> I asked on xfce-dev but no answer yet
<nomed> janimo, yes you could
<janimo> nomed, and now it does not work right?
<nomed> modify the default and save it with a different name
<nomed> janimo, there was a discussion about this
<janimo> nomed, but in 4.2 it used to be easier
<janimo> nomed, oh on the list?
<nomed> yes
<nomed> xfce-dev
<janimo> hmm I must have missed it
<nomed> they decided to use a different approach
<nomed> but i do not like that much how it is now
<janimo> do you have some pointers (time period, subhect)
<janimo> nomed, we will vote in LP officially even if you know you choose the gray :)
<nomed> ehehe
<nomed> Shortcut plugin 4.4
<nomed> Subj ...
<janimo> nomed, ok thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<nomed> if that's what you meant
<janimo> jsgotangco: is about ubuntu final now in doc svn?
<janimo> I saw today browser-startpage got removed/renamed
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, I have to go, is there something else we should discuss?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: no
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<janimo> see you later, bye
<nomed> bye Gloubiboulga 
<jsgotangco> janimo: yes its already in rosetta
<Gloubiboulga> I'll be back monday...
<Gloubiboulga> cu
<jsgotangco> jsgotangco: i could fork it and create something for xubuntu if you want to
<janimo> luzi, xubuntu about should be close to ready for rosetta right?
<janimo> jsgotangco: thanks
<jsgotangco> ahh someone alreayd doing it
<janimo> jsgotangco: I think luzi has something alreday based on that
<jsgotangco> cheers
* jsgotangco finishing up the one for edubuntu
<janimo> ok, anything else?
<luzi> i didn't do anything to the browser-startpage. i think it could use a few changes.
<janimo> luzi, I saw that was renamed in ubuntu to about-ubuntu I think
<janimo> luzi, yes it;s the original doc written when a guide was not planned. it's there since breezy
<nomed> any idea for xubuntu.org ?
<luzi> ok, have to check about-ubuntu when i get home
<nomed> and it would be nice to be here too
<nomed> http://art.ubuntu.com/ ..
<janimo> luzi, thanks
<janimo> nomed, good point I was about to bring that up
<janimo> we need someone to make the page
<janimo> anything minimal but decent
<nomed> janimo, should it be just a css hack ?
<janimo> and get the webmaster access to the canonical server which hosts it
<janimo> nomed, quite possibly I am very clueless wrt web authoring
<janimo> s/wrt/also wrt/ ;)
<janimo> nomed, I think a plone skin is what they say
<janimo> I see kubuntu and edubuntu have quite an identity
<janimo> we could but later on
<janimo> it would b great if for beta (20 Apr) we had xubuntu.org pointing to something similar to the firefox startpage at leats
<nomed> janimo, it looks just a modified css ..
<janimo> with links on the side to the other ubuntus
<nomed> but bhoo
<nomed> we should ask to the person who made k|edu|ubuntu
<janimo> wow for art.ubuntu.com
<nomed> i see sometimes they show same pages
<janimo> well, anything that is not ugly and has xubuntu info on the front page would do for now
<janimo> I'll inquire canonical people to see who could upload the material once we have it
<nomed> janimo, it would be better to have first of all the template
<janimo> nomed, do you have time/interest in this?
<nomed> but mainly a person that could work on it :/
<janimo> I guess  not :)
<nomed> janimo, not in this period
<janimo> understandable
<luzi> if it's just a CSS, it would be easy
<nomed> luzi, i guess it'll be
<nomed> luzi, check edubuntu and kubuntu
<nomed> edubuntu has something more ...
<nomed> but the template seems the same
<janimo> nomed, in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperXubuntuColorScheme page
<janimo> do you have alink to the specific big page for each entry>
<janimo> ?
<Riddell> luzi: it's not
<janimo> that'd be easier than those attachements
<nomed> janimo, view ?
<Riddell> it's an html file with a debian alternatives setting
<luzi> Riddell, how would we go about to make our own? where to get information?
<janimo> nomed, that;s only the wallpaper, I thought about the whole 'gray' entry page
<nomed> janimo, no but you have all the stuff linked in that table row
<nomed> it's the same ..
<Riddell> luzi: just look at the pre and post install scripts in kubuntu-docs and do something similar in the appropriate xubuntu package
<janimo> nomed, I see. but more click :)
<nomed> well yes 
<janimo> Riddell: talking about the website not the firefox about page :)
<nomed> but less pages
<janimo> for xubuntu.org
<nomed> anyway .. i'll add a link to [Luzi] 
<janimo> thanks
<nomed> janimo, check that page now
<janimo> nomed good ;)
<nomed> ok
<nomed> what i'll do is to send an email as soon as i'll have more infos about xarchiver
<luzi> janimo, did you see the message on xfce mailing list about people feeling uncomfortable that Xubuntu packages Xfce stuff that is not released yet?
<nomed> and maybe tomorrow i'll start a page to show the needed icons ...
<janimo> luzi, that;s not people generally , that's the grumpiest xfce dev
<nomed> luzi, i've seen it ... and ..
<nomed> that's what i was going to say :)
<janimo> so I only worry about bugs we may have not the 4.3 tag on it
<luzi> ok
<janimo> he seems like a good guy but sometimes just behaves like that
<janimo> nomed, ok wrt xarchiver
<janimo> wow, bling on LP
<janimo> new menus
<nomed> janimo, well .. i've never seen an email by him saying .. "i'm sorry but ..." :)
<janimo> nomed, deep inside everybody is a good guy/gal
<janimo> :)
<janimo> just does not show it
<janimo> wlel maybe there are a few exceptions ;)
<nomed> eheheh
<nomed> ohhh launchpad now has an aqua theme :)
<nomed> really nice anyway
<jsgotangco> janimo: epiphany doesn't like it though
<janimo> jsgotangco: does not like what?
<jsgotangco> the new menu bling
<jsgotangco> it extends to the whole width of the browser in epi
<nomed> janimo, last question ...
<janimo> aha
<janimo> mgalvin: hello
<nomed> why wouldn't you move gdm theme to xubuntu-artwork ?
<janimo> thanks for the doc
<janimo> nomed, I am willing to , it just not up in the TODO
<janimo> now that ivman is not in by default default settings have less reason to live
<nomed> yep
<mgalvin> janimo: hi
<janimo> mgalvin, answered your mail
* mgalvin goes to read email
<janimo> mgalvin: we surely want and will to help out with that
<janimo> Matt is writing a xubuntu intro as he has for ubuntu flights
<mgalvin> janimo: great! thanks! :)
<janimo> luzi, it probably has things in common with the desktop guide
<janimo> you're both in the doc team, can collaborate :)
<janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuDapperBeta
<mgalvin> i am going to try and make sure all the officially supported derivs have a beta tour and all future tours as well
<janimo> mgalvin: nice
<mgalvin> cool i will talk with luzi about it more
<mgalvin> i will mail the list in a bit about it too
<janimo> mgalvin: is the tour supposed to have a bird's eye view of the stuff or more task oriented?
<luzi> ok, looks nice!
<janimo> I guess the latter is for the guide
<jsgotangco> janimo: tours are much nicer if it has user benefits instead of features
<mgalvin> birds eye mostly but i do not strictly adhear to that...
<mgalvin> anything very notable
<mgalvin> but mostly birds eye of the desktops
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah like a mouse running on a spinning logo
<janimo> ;)
<mgalvin> :)
<janimo> xfce 4.4beta1 is due next week hopefull
<janimo> y
<janimo> their announcement may have some notable things which can be borrowed
<janimo> for other non-xfce stuff, hmm
<mgalvin> cool, i will keep an eye out for it, maybe i will just subscribe to their lists later
<janimo> goffice probably
<janimo> mgalvin: I can send you a link unless you areinterested in duscussion there
<janimo> when it is out I mean, no need to subscribe just for that
<mgalvin> if you can send me a link that would be best
<janimo> mgalvin: ok
<luzi> is the meeting over?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Ju> Hi all !
<Ju> Does anyone have a contact for http://behindubuntu.org/ ? Project interview fr/de have an interview of Jane Silberg
<Ju> ok, it's sealne....
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-18
<robitaille> @schedule us/pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 07:00: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 13:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Apr 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<robitaille> @schedule us/pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 13 Apr 07:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 06:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 13:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 13:00: Technical Board
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 13 Apr 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 23:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 23:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<mdz> everyone here?
<pitti> heya
<Kamion> Kinnison called me to say that he may not make it due to networking problems
<Kamion> (here, obviously)
<mdz> fabbione,Keybuk,mvo,doko,infinity,Riddell,Mithrandir,iwj,ogra: ping
<mdz> I think some folks may be on  vacation; I don't have a list handy
<Kamion> iwj and fabbione both are
<pitti> infinity already left, too
* mvo is here as well
<BenC> mdz: pong
<mdz> BenC: saw you come in ;-)
<BenC> ok :)
<ogra> hey, still 3 mins to go :)
<doko> mdz here
<JaneW> is everyone here?
<JaneW> I have apologies for 4 ppl fabbione, infinity, Mithrandir and iwj
<mdz> JaneW: can you forward those to me in advance when you receive them? would save a  bit of time
<mdz> still expecting Keybuk and Riddell
<Riddell> hi mdz 
<JaneW> mdz: sure
<JaneW> mdz: should I do so now?
<mdz> JaneW: sure, thanks
<JaneW> mdz: I have no update from iwj though
<JaneW> gah phones are ringing...
<JaneW> hi Kinnison 
<Kinnison> Hi, I'm back
<Kinnison> blasted pobox
<Kamion> just in time
<Kinnison> aye
<mdz> texted Keybuk, let's get started
<mdz> seb128: ready?
<Riddell> mdz: I think kwwii will have a report too
<seb128> This week: GNOME 2.14.1, some bug triage, patches review, fixed a bunch of issues on the desktop
<seb128> . 
<seb128> next week: keep triaging bugs and fixes issues on the desktop, trying candidates for dapper beta CD
<mdz> is 2.14.1 done, or is there more to go?
<pitti> hey Keybuk 
<seb128> mdz: still gdm to upload, out of that it's done
<mdz> great
<mdz> seb128: any bugs which should be on the radar for beta/
<mdz> ?
<seb128> no, no blocker
<seb128> rather a list of annoyances which would be nice to fix for dapper
<seb128> but no stopper
<mdz> ok, if you come across any (for beta or final), go ahead and set a 6.06 milestone so that I see it
<seb128> I've used milestone quite often in fact
<mdz> ok
<seb128> but I use it as a "we should look at that for dapper"
<seb128> not "we have to fix it"
<mdz> I've used it for both nice to fix and for blockers
<doko> mdz: milestones for RC reports only?
<mdz> we can distinguish by severity I suppose
<seb128> right
<mdz> doko: I see it as a sort of "relevant to the release" tag at this point, so it's more than just RC
<mdz> also small stuff which may not be a showstopper, but should definitely be looked at for the release
<doko> ok
<mdz> e.g., cosmetic issues which are easy to fix but might otherwise be forgotten
<mdz> thanks seb128
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Riddell> done: KDE Espresso
<Riddell> also: fixes to kpdf, kaffeine, openoffice. testing CUPS and kdeprint
<Riddell> blocked: anyone want to help me get scim/skim working so can test doko's fix on amd64?
<Riddell> todo: kde espresso: add map widget page, quite a few fixes to qt parted.  looking good for beta release
<Riddell> s/page//, the page is fine, it's just missing a pretty map
<mdz> Riddell: I need for you to spend some solid time in malone before beta, to check for bugs which may need attention for beta
<Riddell> mdz: I agree but so far I've treated espresso as my priority
<mdz> right, if it's in good functional shape for  beta, the polish can wait until after beta
<mdz> the rest of the system needs attention also
<mdz> if there is someone we can recruit to help you with that, talk with me
<Riddell> true, I'll try and get espresso into a shape I'm happy with by end of tomorrow so I can do bug fixes next week
<Riddell> help with bugs or espresso?
<mdz> but the bug list is huge and I'm concerned there may be some surprises lurking there
<mdz> Riddell: either way, to get more attention on bugs
<mdz> Riddell: mvo has familiarized himself with scim and may be able to help there
<Riddell> people with kubuntu, debconf and pykde knowledge are very rare.  bug fixers I can think of though
<mvo> Riddell: can we talk about scim/skim after the meeting?
<mdz> Riddell: ok, thanks
<Riddell> mvo: sure, please
<mvo> Riddell: it should work (after the latest uploads) out of the box on kubuntu again
<Kamion> I expect the level of debconf knowledge required now is a bit less than was required when we were building the infrastructure
<mdz> kwwii: Riddell mentioned that you might have something prepared to present here?
<kwwii> mdz: yepp, might not be so impressive, but here goes
<kwwii> I have touched up the wallpaper (made it a bit lighter) and am working on a color scheme to fit well with the new wallpaper.
<kwwii> Finishing work on new buttons for the window decoration
<kwwii> My goal for next week for Kubuntu is to finish all three of these things, since they rely so heavily on another, and get them packaged so that they can be tested.
<kwwii> After that I'll touch up the KDM theme to match (2 buttons, bg color, etc.)
<Riddell> (kwwii is Ken Wimer, doing the Kubuntu Dapper artwork and some ubuntu artwork for those who don't know)
<kwwii> in addition to all that, we need to finish the Usplash stuff for *buntu
<mdz> kwwii: with a goal of having them in place for beta?
<kwwii> mdz: when exaclty is the deadline? but, yes, that was my idea
<mdz> kwwii: we'll start rolling candidates on Tuesday
<kwwii> cool, I should have something by then
<kwwii> all up to the kdm theme, unless I get a lot of time on the weekend :-)
<ogra> kwwii, are you also responsible for the edubuntu artwork ? 
<mdz> kwwii: I don't know if Jane or Mark already discussed this wih you, but we'd like to have the text 'beta' sprinkled around so that it shows up in press screenshots, etc., and avoids confusion about the nature of this release
<kwwii> mdz: great idea, I will add that to the pic
<mdz> kwwii: usplash, login background, login splash, etc., the stuff which is likely to be screenshotted
<mdz> kwwii: great, thanks
<kwwii> ogra: not responsible, no, but I have talked to some people to try and help a bit :-)
<mdz> pitti: next?
<kwwii> mdz: who can tell me what info is corret?
<kwwii> wait!
<kwwii> pone second
<kwwii>  :-)
<kwwii> one
<JaneW> kwwii: that would be nice if we could get some edubuntu help
<kwwii> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Usplash/Artwork
<kwwii> is that info right?
<mdz> kwwii: we have a very tight time table for this meeting and 17 people need to present; we can't spend more than a few minutes with anyone
<kwwii> JaneW: cool, I'll do what I can
<mdz> kwwii: I'll look at it after the meeting, ok?
<kwwii> mdz: ok, sorry
<kwwii> mdz: sure, thanks :-)
<mdz> pitti: ?
<pitti> reducing-duplication: got rid of some gtk1.2 dependencies, but some are still there; no other progress
<pitti> general stuff done this week:
<pitti>  * security updates
<pitti>  * bug triage and bug fixing
<pitti>  * cupsys: had much fun with preparing 1.2rc2 packages, requested testing them on u-devel before asking to put it into dapper; also improved cooperation with Debian a lot to reduce our delta and maintain it sanely in revision control now; my plan is to get this into dapper ASAP and then fix the remaining bugs in 1.2rc2 to get help from upstream
<pitti>  * KDE printing: got a friend of mine to look into the issue; he found a number of issues in kdeprint which break stuff; sent a preliminary patch to Riddell to make printing with our cups work at all, more stuff to come
<pitti>  * new language packs
<pitti>  * espresso testing (I declare myself as Kamion's official test suite - if it will finally work for me, it must work everywhere :) )
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  * huge security update: ffox 1.0.8 and friends; iwj agreed to help me with that
<pitti>  * making baby jesus cry harder about cups and its bugs
<pitti>  * attempt to fix some long-standing ALSA related bugs
<pitti>  * look into other bugs (dhcp3 needs some love, too)
<pitti>  * catch up with bug triage
<mdz> pitti: did you and iwj look at gs?
<pitti> mdz: not yet, sorry; I was just swamped
<mdz> no worries
<pitti> mdz: your idea is to get rid of gs-gpl and just keep -esp or so?
<mdz> pitti: please wait until after beta freeze for the new cups unless there are showstopper bugs for beta
<pitti> mdz: wrt kde and printing, would you be fine if that friend of mine claims the bounty if he fixes some stuff?
<mdz> pitti: only if we arrange in advance; there is no posted bounty
<pitti> mdz: yes, of course; I thought I have the new cups tested for some days, and upload it right after beta release
<mdz> pitti: ok, you did say ASAP ;-)
<pitti> mdz: sure, we'll prepare a writeup
<mdz> pitti: how do the numbers look on the new langpacks?
<pitti> mdz: yes, I don't consider it a good idea to upload it for beta :)
<mdz> are the rosetta exports more complete?
<pitti> mdz: still merging with my buildd data; rosetta still lags, mainly wrt KDE
<mdz> pitti: please find out from carlos if we can get better exports for beta
<pitti> mdz: a bit, but not significantly still around 30% coverage
<pitti> yep, will do
<mdz> ok, thanks pitti
<mdz> ogra: next?
<ogra> * general:  g-s-s flickering hunted down and fixed. worked on the ltsp-client-builder.udeb progress reporting (sadly the fifo lets ltsp-build-client die, i'm still investigating, seems the frontend is to slow). further edubuntu and ltsp doc stuff. more small bugs killed. cleaning up malone from fixed but unclosed bugs on my list
<ogra> * next-week: bughunt. getting edubuntu and ltsp documentation into the default edubuntu install. still waiting for artwork from the design company. making the last changes to ltsp and the ltsp-client-builder.udeb (i.e. making dhcpd.conf not a conffile to not break on upgrades). final xscreensaver stuff. preparing edubuntu for beta release
<mdz> ltsp-client-builder progress reporting?
<mdz> was that part of a feature speC?
<ogra> nope, thats was a leftover from breezy
<ogra> currently the progressbar has only 3 steps
<ogra> i can leave it like that, doesnt hurt, but i'd prefer to have it proper for dapper 
<mdz> what's involved?
<ogra> having a proper fifo pipe from ltsp-build-client to the UI
<mdz> ack
<mdz> that's pre-featurefreeze sort of stuff
<ogra> apparently the pipe dies before the reading starts 
<mdz> please defer to post-dapper and concentrate on bugs
<ogra> i'll do it anyway in the devel branch, if you dont want it in, we can postpone, as i said its only ugly
<ogra> ok
<mdz> ogra: who is your contact for the edubuntu artwork? silbs?
<ogra> yep
<mdz> and she doesn't return until tuesday, hrm
<ogra> i had a preview of the artwork and adjusted the other ui elements accordingly
<mdz> she said she could accept calls, though, I'll try her
<ogra> but then she said they would probably change the whole colouring, which i'm not really fond of
<mdz> ogra: any beta blocker bugs for edubuntu, ensure that they have a 6.06 milestone set
<ogra> sine then i havent heard anything
<mdz> ogra: I'll call her
<JaneW> but we weren;t really given a date for the final stuff...
<JaneW> beyond the deadlines
<ogra> no blockers 
<mdz> ogra: including any which turn up over the next days ;-)
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<ogra> :)
<mdz> mvo: next?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - update-manager updates (added --check-dist-upgrades), various bugfixes
<mvo> - gksu/update-manager breezy-backport uploaded, fixing a few remarks from kamion (will upload again right after the meeting)
<mvo> - CJK+thai work (input methods uploads, ff with better libthai support)
<mvo> - fixed some startup-notifcation releated problems
<mvo> - general bugtriage + bugfixing (notitication-daemon size-miscacluations, gksu passes http_proxy on now, etc)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - more bugfixing/bug triage (still lacking behind)
<mvo> - dist-upgrade tool work (make it more robust)
<mvo> - looking into the state of apt (open patches etc)
<mvo> Blocked:
<mvo> - sysadmin setup for the auto-dist-upgrade
<mdz> mvo: please prepare instructions for doing a breezy->dapper upgrade using the tool, for inclusion in the beta release announcement
<mdz> mvo: we'll do a major call for upgrade testing there
<mvo> mdz: ok, it's just "update-manager -d"
<mvo> but I'll write up something more appropriate
<mdz> mvo: speaking of startup-notification, espresso really needed that the last time I looked
<mdz> it takes a long time to load from the live CD and there was no feedback
<mvo> mdz: ok, I can talk to kamion about it 
<mdz> thanks
<mvo> cheers
<JaneW> Mithrandir
<JaneW> misc: vacation, polished the live cds, fixing bugs in casper, bug
<JaneW>  triage on xkb problems, other general bug triage. Started
<JaneW>  looking at popcon
<JaneW> next week: more vacation, fix popcon, beta release
<JaneW> blocked: no 
<mdz> ok
<mdz> is he on holiday?
<JaneW> yes today, fri and monday
<JaneW> he was working this morning though
<mdz> ok, back tues
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> Kinnison: online?
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> gnome-power-manager: Preparing 2.14.1 (bugfixes from upstream), not finished it yet
<Kinnison> launchpad: Got test suite merged for soyuz upload checks. Helped cprov track down issue with duplicated origs. Manually got python-vte into main in breezy-updates. (solves the immediate issue in 36022). Got dist-upgrader signing merged.
<Kinnison> publisher: d-i pocket support is done, I need to get it merged.
<Kinnison> general: Lots of bug work on random bugs assigned to me. Various uploads made to correct as many of them as I can.
<Kinnison> lp-ongoing: Merge d-i pocket support (trivial). Finish the resolution of the duplicated orig.tar.gzs, need to talk with Kamion about this once I have the info.
<Kinnison> distro-ongoing: Still need to try and resolve gparted ui bug. Continue squashing the bugs handed to me in general. Get g-p-m 2.14.1 in and continue finding cherrypicks for upstream.
<Kinnison> bug-status: I have a large buglist for gnome-power-manager which could do with some serious love. Hopefully I'll have a block of time to dedicate to this next week.
<Kinnison> [end] 
<mdz> when is the next bug day? today? tomorrow?
<seb128> today
<Kamion> any particular gparted UI bug, or do you mean the UI bug called gparted? :-)
<mdz> Kinnison: ubuntu-laptop would be a good theme for a bug day, though it'll have to be after beta
<Kinnison> Kamion: "the ui bug" is the "not refreshing properly" one
<Kamion> ah yes
<Kinnison> mdz: Aye it would.
<Kinnison> dholbach: can you and I talk about that?
<mdz> Kinnison: coordinate with dholbach on that
<dholbach> i'll prepare an announce for next time
<mdz> ;-)
<mdz> dholbach: what's today's theme?
<dholbach> KERNEL HUGS!
<mdz> how is that working out?
<dholbach> there has been some clean up going on, but people were a bit uncoordinated due to lack of kernel people
<mdz> are people basically working from the kernel team's +subscribedbugs?
<dholbach> old needsinfo bugs were cleaned out this morning
<dholbach> +packagebugs is a bit more comprehensive
<dholbach> i hope all the kernel guys pop in soon and give directions
<Seveas> urgh, so far I failed to attend all hug days
<ogra> Seveas, there are bugs between the hugdays ;)
<dholbach> #ubuntu-bugs now! everybody! :-)
<BenC> I didn't know you needed any one :)
<mdz> BenC: now that we have daytime in the US, please spend time there
<mdz> should be a great opportunity to get help asking for more info on bugs, and trying to confirm
<mdz> Kinnison: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<Keybuk>  * lots of bug fixing
<Keybuk>  * have rookery finding packages relying on /var/run/* and /var/lock/*; as well as using obsolete directories like /etc/hotplug
<Keybuk>  * doing main uploads to fix those myself, and going to do a mass-filing on universe
<Keybuk>  * started ftp admin work after getting lessons from colin
<Keybuk>  * dpkg 2 docs
<BenC> yeah, so far the help has been really great
<Keybuk>  * bad bug found in udev that should be fixed before release: calls ifup with the old interface name after renaming it
<BenC> the trivial bugs is what is slowing me down
<mdz> BenC: trivial impact or trivial to fix?
<mdz> BenC: for the former, downgrade them and prioritize the rest
<BenC> it's the perusing of those trivial bugs that slows me down
<BenC> I still have to read them :)
<mdz> Keybuk: is the /var/run search still running?
<Kamion> Keybuk: I'd appreciate help on the openssh bug about /var/run - it seems to be real (had several reports now), and might only happen during the upgrade, so might be an upgrade ordering bug
<Kamion> Keybuk: bug 38921 et al
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38921 in openssh openssh-server "Breezy->dapper upgrade missing /var/run/sshd" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38921
<Keybuk> mdz: no, I have a list for that one now
<Keybuk> Kamion: ok, I'll look into that for you
<Kamion> thanks
<Kamion> AFAICT the init script is sane
<mdz> Keybuk: please also search malone for any /var/run bugs which haven't been tended yet...unfortunately I think the quirks of malone searching make that tricky right now, maybe confer with #launchpad
<Keybuk> mdz: all the easy fixes have been uploaded, there's a small few which don't have init scripts but rely on /var/run subdirs
<Seveas> Keybuk, should you be subscribed to all /ver/run bugs?
<mdz> cf. bug #29227
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29227 in malone "Searching for "pmu" doesn't find "/dev/pmu"" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29227
<mdz> the full text indexing breaks up words in unexpected ways sometimes
<Keybuk> Seveas: if they're in main, yes
<mdz> indeed
<mdz> Keybuk: what's the bug# for the udev issue, and is its milestone set?
<Keybuk> milestone is set
<mdz> ok, I'll see it then
<mdz> thanks Keybuk
<mdz> Kamion: next?
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Keyboard selection now propagated to installed system. choose-mirror/apt-setup done. Selected country propagated to locale selection. I'm calling this implemented now.
<Keybuk> ubuntu 38787
<Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: Now displays selected country. Hostname defaults improved per discussion at UI sprint. I believe the only thing remaining in this specification is getting a reasonable icon; I've asked the art team for help with that.
<Keybuk> bug 38787 even :)
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-copy-filesystem: Belatedly marked implemented; had been wrongly marked as awaiting deployment for a while.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38787 in udev "add action uses wrong interface name in 85-ifupdown.rules" [Major,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38787
<Kamion> ubuntu-express-bootloader: Tested and fixed yaboot support. Espresso now finally works on powerpc (after I make today's upload)! Implemented.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Fixed debconf to notice write errors when saving its databases, which totally wedged espresso if the live CD ran out of memory and was probably the underlying cause of a lot of database corruption bugs.
<Kamion> server-candy: Added preseeded kernel override facility to base-installer, which should keep Fabio happy. :-)
<Kamion> misc: Uploaded Thai console support patches. Fixed up oem-config a bit so that it at least vaguely works again, but I need to allocate some time post-beta to clean this up some more.
<Kamion> next-week: If I have time before beta, I want to fix espresso's reboot step, clean up a few strings, and possibly execute the proposed rename to ubiquity. Vacation from Friday to Tuesday inclusive. Beta preparation on Wednesday and Thursday.
<mdz> Kamion: sounds like things are coming together for beta
<Kamion> yeah, it's not too bad, still concerned about some partitioning bugs but I think general fixes I've made may have cleared up more of those than is immediately obvious
<Kamion> worst problem is basically poor error handling in places
<mdz> my primary UI concern the last time I used espresso was that there are several points where there is a lag between the user action and the completion of drawing the next page
<mdz> is it possible to get a busy cursor from the time the button is clicked until, e.g. the list of languages is filled?
<Kamion> yeah, tricky to fix but I agree that should be addressed for release
<Kamion> that should be possible, I just don't want to rock that boat for beta now
<mdz> ok. startup-notification would also make a big difference there
<Kamion> I may be able to get a busy cursor in places but not completely
<mdz> right, agreed
<ogra> you can also do ugly things with gtktimeout and gtk_main iteration to keep it "fake responsive"
<Kamion> should I do the ubiquity rename before beta or after?
<ogra> as a last resort
<Kamion> ogra: it's not a UI thread being blocked problem
<ogra> ah, k
<Kamion> (i.e. is Mark going to turn up on Wednesday and say "why didn't you rename it?" :-))
<mdz> is it really that common to run out of space on the live CD? are people using it on low-memory systems?
<mdz> Kamion: after beta, please ;-)
<Kamion> the tmpfs is only half of memory so it's easy enough if you're doing other stuff
<ogra> define low memory :)
<mdz> Kamion: if that does happen, please refer him to me
<ogra> there are people running the liveCD on 256M
<Kamion> happens to me a fair bit when building espresso on the live CD and then running it
<Kamion> mdz: ok, thanks
<Kamion> (with 512MB of memory)
<mdz> thanks Kamion
<mdz> JaneW: no note from iwj, right?
<JaneW> nope
<mdz> infinity?
<JaneW> sy fixes have been uploaded, there's a small few which don't have init scripts but rely on /var/run subdirs
<JaneW> Seveas Keybuk, should you be subscribed to all /ver/run bugs?
<JaneW> oops sorry wrong paste
<JaneW> infinity
<JaneW> last week buildd: Continued hunting down build failures, got elmo to set up dapper-autotest, which should light up shortly. Investigated some livefs speedups, and livefs build issues on ia64.
<JaneW> last week distro: Finished off the mysqlclient transition, including resolving several new build failures, uploaded a glibc with some bugfixes, did some X bugfixing and triaging, new NVIDIA drivers, new Samba.
<JaneW> next week buildd: Babysit dapper-autotest and start fixing build failures and/or filing bugs, get livefs up to speed on all architectures in time for beta.
<JaneW> next week distro: Get in some critical bugfixes before beta for initramfs-tools, and scrape some Thunderbird branding (been fighting with this off and on) in just under the UI freeze wire.
<JaneW> and I have fabbione's too
<JaneW> fabbione 
<JaneW> server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. Big cleanup of the install CD's.
<JaneW> * ubuntu-cluster: Fixed one pending bug. No other progresses.
<JaneW> * last week: bug squashing.
<JaneW> * next week: bug squashing.
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> fabbione's server-candy blocked list is out of date; see my report
<mdz> fabio emailed that earlier in the week I think
<mdz> thanks JaneW
<Seveas> (there are new ati drivers, infinity will be thrilled about all bugreports to come</sarcasm>)
<mdz> heno: next?
<heno>  * winfoss: started work on the kubuntu version. It needs a distinct look and some new apps. See: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/winfoss/dapper/kubuntu/
<heno>  * accessibility: Tested the newly landed setting on the Live CD today. Some configurations still need some adjustment.
<heno>  * xorg: triaging bugs. Got help from Seveas to prepare a script that simplifies the collection of debugging info, esp. on Live CDs
<mdz> Kamion: are we already equipped for different winfoss for kubuntu, as far as building CD images?
<Riddell> heno: looking nice there
<mdz> I didn't realize that was in the works
<Riddell> mdz: yes, that happened in breezy
<Kamion> mdz: yes
<heno> mdz: we've done that each time so far
<mdz> shows how often I've put a kubuntu CD into a windows machine ;-)
<Riddell> heno: I should give you the version of the logo we're using in dapper
<Keybuk> "what's a kubuntu CD?" :)
<Kamion> heno: send me a mail with the URL when it's ready, please
<heno> Riddell: cool, thanks
<JaneW> Keybuk: I have one
<heno> Kamion: right
<mdz> heno: I've been subscribing the accessibility team to a11y bugs as I come across them
<Riddell> heno: did you look at scribus and speedcrunch?
<mdz> they are starting to become more common now that the work is more visible
<heno> mdz: good, yes I get those 
<heno> Riddell: only briefly
<heno> Riddell: but the plan is to include them, yes
<mdz> heno: is fabio going to get that script added to the packages?
<heno> mdz: the sript is just something the users download to collect debug info
<kwwii> heno: I could give you the new version of the logo I made for dapper, for those winfoss screens
<heno> no need to include it anywhere
<mdz> heno: it would be even more efficient if it were in the package and they only needed to run it...something to talk with fabio about
<Seveas> mdz, I hope not - it's not ready for that yet
<mdz> heno: thanks
<mdz> doko: next?
<doko> - openoffice.org: dapper: waiting for removal of rosetta data before next upload, breezy backport builds now, needs packaging adjustments. 5 new OOo locales integrated, bug fixes.
<doko> - toolchain-ng: no progress
<doko> - font: made the Nimbus family an alias for the Adobe standard families again
<doko> - printing: cupsys fixes, new ppd layout, updates of driver packages, bug fixes, currently pending approval: foomatic-filters-ppds, foomatic-db-hpijs, hplip.
<doko> - other: bug fixes in mcpp, xrdb, fontforge, toolchain, some syncs.
<doko> - got a pointer from debian-printing to attend #printing-summit on irc, very short note (seems to be a meeting every six months, this time in Atlanta, interesting things: have a printing gui independent of a toolkit, ppd reorganization)
<heno> people were reporting crashed X on the live CD and then were stuck in how to get the files uploaded
<doko> - some support stuff with mdy and elmo
<doko> - blocked: OOo, printing upgrades, toolchain-ng
<mdz> doko: removal of rosetta data?
<doko> - plan for next week: have all printing packages updated to let people test with recent printer descriptions
<doko> - OOo uploads, OOo breezy build
<mdz> doko: any feedback on the font change?  have you searched for relevant bugs in malone?
<doko> mdz: same thing as last week, we need to kill all OOo imports, and the start again
<doko> mdz: just one per #irc for now
<mdz> doko: go ahead with foomatic-filters-ppds and foomatic-db-hpijs
<mdz> doko: remind me about hplip after beta
<doko> mdz: ok, what about hplip 0.9.7?
<mdz> I don't want to change it during beta freeze unless there is a blocker for beta
<mdz> I'll more easily find time to test it after beta
<doko> well, it works, not just for me, but anyway
<mdz> doko: is carlos handling the rosetta stuff?
<doko> mdz: stub and carlos, yes
<mdz> doko: yes, I understand, but we are in beta freeze
<mdz> doko: is there an ETA?  are any of the blocked ooo changes targeting beta?
<doko> mdz: it would be nice to have translations from rosetta in a -l10n build
<mdz> ok, thanks doko
<mdz> dholbach: next?
<dholbach> icon-mission: regular updates to tangerine, wrote another call for help to ubuntu-art - looks good; Mark pinged Dave about Icons Tuesday - will compile a list of bugs against the icons for him
<dholbach> bugs: HUG DAY today, introduced weekly bug goals for the Desktop Team, (with the help of volunteers and upstream people) we start catching up slowly, although it's a daily battle to stay on top and lots of old bugs need cleaning and updating
<dholbach> universe: announced ssl (0.9.{7,8}) transition,  will mass-file bugs (for unmet dependencies as well), to have a list and good overview
<dholbach> this week (done): gnome 2.14.1, bug triage, hug day
<dholbach> this week (todo): bug triage, hug day
<dholbach> next week: bug triage, cd testing, universe lists
<mdz> a reminder, everyone should be participating in bug days at this point in the release
<dholbach> mdz: shall we switch to weekly bug days now?
<mdz> most of you are primarily working on bugs anyway, and doing this within the context of a bug day helps others learn to help as well
<JaneW> dholbach: yes, I think so...
<dholbach> normally i'd do them every two weeks
<mdz> dholbach: possibly, if we can avoid conflicting with milestone releases
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> i'll talk to Kinnison about the next one
<mdz> we'll get better participation from the full team if there isn't a flight going on at the same time
<dholbach> and get all the laptop testers reactivated
<JaneW> dholbach: can we do them mid-week?
<mdz> thanks dholbach
<mdz> BenC: last up
<BenC> Kernel bugs: Sifting through them still. Finally have some outside help going through the trivial bugs (closing old inactive ones, finding dupes, requesting testing with latest kernels, etc). Should be caught up and settled down to the critical bugs by next week.
<dholbach> JaneW: why mid-week? - I always thought friday was good choice.
<mdz> BenC: any beta-relevant bugs on your list?
<BenC> nothing that's a showstopper for beta, no
<JaneW> dholbach: the distro team is tired on a friday, they want to wrap up their week and would rather do this during the week
<mdz> ok, we're over time already
<mdz> thanks BenC
<JaneW> dholbach: that's the feedback I have got
<dholbach> JaneW: ok... everybody ok with laptop hugs on wednesday?
<mdz> I'll be off the rest of today, but reachable by phone
<mdz> and will likely check email in the evening
<Kinnison> dholbach: fine by me
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<pitti> thanks guys
* ogra goes for easter shopping before the shops close
<BenC> bye everyone
<dholbach> thanks
<pitti> and girl :)
<BenC> thanks mdz
<ogra> thanks
* JaneW is off to the Robbie Williams concert now
<dholbach> Kinnison: ok :)
<JaneW> pitti: thanks
* pitti joins ogra, it's high time now
<mdz> JaneW: !
<JaneW> heh
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> JaneW: have fun!
<Seveas> JaneW, tell him we said hi ;)
<pitti> JaneW: have fun!
<ogra> mdz, you dont read her blog eh ? 
<JaneW> Seveas: will do
<JaneW> ogra: stop right there!
<Keybuk> ogra: her blog isn't on Planet
<ogra> *giggle*
<ogra> Keybuk, i know
<Seveas> JaneW, paradise by the dashboard light?
<ogra> Keybuk, its only for the enlightened people she gives access :)
<pitti> Seveas: wasn't that Meat Loaf?
<Seveas> pitti, "Stop right There"
* mvo switches to meat loaf
<Seveas> immediately thought about that song 
<JaneW> ok bye, happy easter and passover and whatever else is happening around this time
<pitti> lots of partying...
<ogra> bughunting :P
<Seveas> any python guru around who can tell me in a few lines how to upload a file with urllib2?
<pitti> getting older :)
<ogra> Seveas, there is code in popcon iirc ...
<Seveas> *hug*
<Seveas> how does hwdb-client upload? Huge form?
* sivang is here
<sivang> sorry for being late, it's a public holiday in .IL and I had to be offline for a bit.
<ogra> Seveas, a stupid cgi and no urllib usage
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Apr 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-19
<highvoltage> hi ogra_ibook !
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-20
<teolemon> hi
<teolemon> have you seen http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2006/04/summer-of-code-2006.html
<teolemon> is Ubuntu considering to be a mentor once again ?
<dsas> teolemon: You're in the wrong room to ask that, this room is for ubuntu meetings only.
<dsas> teolemon: Perhaps it's something that should be asked about in the next community council meeting. You could try putting it on the agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil
<teolemon> thks
<teolemon> i'll add it
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-21
<tonyyarusso> @schedule EDT
<tonyyarusso> Hmm...
<tonyyarusso> @schedule toronto
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Toronto: 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<tonyyarusso> Ah, much better.
<Seveas> @schedule amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-04-23
<robitaille> @topic
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 18 Apr 14:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 06:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 13:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 13:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 05:00: Edubuntu
<Toadstool> @schedule Europe/Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<Fracture> @schedule Australia/Brisbane
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Brisbane: 19 Apr 07:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 06:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 06:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu
<neuralis> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<Lure> @schedule Europe/Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<freeflying> @schedule Asia/Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 19 Apr 05:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 21:30: Xubuntu | 21 Apr 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 26 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu
<JaneW>  @schedule South Africa
<JaneW> @schedule South Africa
<ogra> probably @schedule capetown 
<JaneW> @schedule Africa/Johannesburg
<ogra> hmm
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<ogra> :)
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 19 Apr 00:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 23:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 23:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu
<JaneW> gah 23:00!
<JaneW> :/
<ogra> nah 21:00
<ogra> (UTC)
<ogra> ;)
<sivang> JaneW: yep :)
<JaneW> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council
<sivang> JaneW: we are on the same time zone IIRC
<ogra> which is 21:00 UTC 
<sivang> ogra: this is alredy translted from UTC to ours :)
<ogra> sivang, with different DST ?
<JaneW> Isreal seesm to be UTC +3
<JaneW> we are UTC +2
<sivang> IIRC we are also UTC+2
<sivang> weird
<ogra> @schedule germany/cologne
<sivang> JaneW: what time is it now for you ?
<ogra> pffffffft !!!
<JaneW> sivang: do you have daylight savings?
<JaneW> 16:18 here now
<sivang> JaneW: yes, alrady enabled
<sivang> ah
<JaneW> sivang: we don;t
<sivang> JaneW: :) so it's ont hour ealier for you
<JaneW> we just stay at UTC +2
<JaneW> makes things a lot easier
<sivang> sure, wish was here as well
<ogra> @schedule europe/amsterdam 
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<JaneW> ok well I can't guarrantee to be at CC at 23:00unless I am wanted/needed/bribed
<sivang> heh
<ogra> JaneW, you have a topic on the agenda (two actually)
<JaneW> I do?
* JaneW looks
<ogra> #
<ogra> Should we consider applying as a mentoring organization once again for Google's SoC 2006?
<ogra>     *
<ogra>       [WWW]  http://code.google.com/soc/
<ogra> What's the policy for adding people to kubuntu-members and edubuntu-memebers launchpad teams ? jriddell, ogra
<sivang> JaneW: I just saw your spec status chang for HUB, I guess I can start relazing now with i abit ;-)
<sivang> relaxing, even
<JaneW> sivang: yep, it
<JaneW> 's really too late now
<ogra> not for universe :) but it was too late for main weeks ago already 
<JaneW> ogra: yes of course, universe is always an option
<JaneW> but I meant for dapper main inclusion
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> which afaik sivang was aiming for
<ogra> i just wanted to notify sivang that its still possible ...
<ogra> just not for main
<JaneW> who put that SoC topic up?
<ogra> i didnt
<ogra> i thought it was
<ogra> you+
<ogra> (i'll surely vouch against it as many will)
<JaneW> really?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> I thought it was pretty much a given that we would participate again
<JaneW> and mdz seemed to be in favour too
<ogra> we only have 4 months for the upcoming release ...
<JaneW> yes and this can help to get more stuff done
<ogra> last SoC stole a lot of my time with not much outcome
<JaneW> granted time is required for mentoring
<JaneW> but the whole point is to help ppl to grow to be able to be useful...
<ogra> i'd rather teach some people eager to help with edubuntu how to package than having to fix applications of SoC students that wrote a nice theme for SoC but have no clue
<JaneW> additionally I think it would do us a disservice ITO PR to NOT be seen to participate since all the big OSS projects are
<ogra> yes, thats why i prefer to support people in *our* community rather tha some random SoC student
<JaneW> ogra: we could be more selective this time
<JaneW> that was my intention
<ogra> the outcome for us willl be far more valuable if we inverst the same time into *our* community
<JaneW> we had no interaction with our students before the selection last time, and we asked to change that
<JaneW> yes well spacey for one would qualify
<ogra> PR is the only advantage i can think about
<JaneW> if he cares to apply
<JaneW> so like I said we can use it to our advantage
<ogra> sure, if we can select people from our community, thats fine ... but i'm sure that will only work if we get enough applicants
<JaneW> you have to be a registered student, and older than 18 
<ogra> s/applicants/applicants from whithin the community/
<JaneW> (and some silly rules like you can be in Irna, Iraq, Cuba, North Korea) *rolls eyes*
<ogra> anyway, lets keep the discussion for the meeting, i'm sure there will come up more ...
<ogra> i'm also not sure thats CC thing at all i'd rather put it under TB
<Yagisan> @schedule GMT+10
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+10: 18 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 02:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 03:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 10:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 02:00: Edubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: 18 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu
<Klaidas> cool feature. I didn't know about it :)
<Yann2> @schedule GMT+1
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+1: 18 Apr 20:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 11:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 12:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 11:00: Edubuntu
<Ju> Hi all !
<Yann2> @schedule GMT+1
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+1: 18 Apr 20:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 11:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 12:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 19:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 11:00: Edubuntu
<Yann2> Ju > ?
<Yann2> it's wrong, isn't it? ^^
<mpathy> Hi Seveas..
<Seveas> hi
<lucas> @schedule Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<lucas> it's wrong.
<Seveas> it's not
<lucas> CC meeting is in 2 hours ?
<Seveas> and 16 minutes
<lucas> ah I misread the topic earlier
<mpathy> @schedule Berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<Yann2> lucas , pv :)
<zul> @schedule Ottawa
<Yann2> @schedule GMT+2
<cbx33> @schedule uk
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: 18 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT: 18 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> heheeh
<Yann2> @schedule UTC+2
<Yann2> @schedule Paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<Yann2> @schedule GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT+2: 18 Apr 19:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 18:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 10:00: Edubuntu
<Yann2> ahem, Paris is UTC+2 isn't it? :s
<juliux> Yann2, yes it is utc+2
<Yann2> ok :)
<juliux> Yann2, berlin is utc+2 and it is now 21:10
<cbx33> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<cbx33> @schedule GMT
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/GMT: 18 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 Apr 17:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 09:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 16:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu
<dholbach> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 18 Apr 23:00: Community Council | 19 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:30: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
<zul> bah...berlin..
<juliux> @schedule dresden 
<juliux> :-(
<dholbach> juliux: as if we weren't in the same timezone :)
<dholbach> zul: pffffft :)
<juliux> dholbach, hehe
<ogra> @schedule blankenheim/rohr
<juliux> dholbach, here it is east germany ;)
<ogra> bah
<cbx33> I was here 13 minutes ago ready to start
<zul> only?
<atie_> hi all
<juliux> hi atie_ 
<BlueT_> atie_: yo
<atie_> juliux, BlueT_  hi
<mitsuhiko> hiho all
<atie_> BlueT_, are you gonna apply membership today?
<BlueT_> atie_: yes. and sorry for i didn't show up at the last meeting
<atie_> BlueT_, good luck. :)
<BlueT_> atie_: i almost dead for some personal reason last time.
<cbx33> how long does it take before you can apply normally?
<BlueT_> atie_: my apologize.
<atie_> BlueT_, no... not to me. ^^
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Gloubiboulga> evening Toadstool ;)
<cbx33> evenin all
* BlueT_ is very nervous now. Gonna smoke to relax.
<BlueT_> Toadstool: moin :)
<cbx33> awww don;t be nervous BlueT_ 
<mitsuhiko> 15 minutes countdown :)
<juliux> hi rockin_stan 
<rockin_stan> juliux: hi there ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 20 Apr 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<BlueT_> cbx33, mitsuhiko: thanx :)
<cbx33> You'll be fine
* BlueT_ took some medicine to countdown
<Bluekuja> hi all
<Bluekuja> hi BlueT_
<Bluekuja> ;)
<cbx33> Hi Bluekuja 
<BlueT_> what should i prepare for this meeting?
<Bluekuja> hey cbx33 :)
<BlueT_> Bluekuja: long time no see :D
<cbx33> You mean the one that's starting in 5 minutes :p
<Bluekuja> yeah hehe
<Bluekuja> you are alwais busy
<Bluekuja> working
<Bluekuja> hehe ;)
<BlueT_> Bluekuja: i went to mainland china last week :)
<cbx33> crikey :p
<Bluekuja> oh really nice
<juliux> hi Surfels 
<Bluekuja> i have to make a trip in china
<atie_> BlueT_, 3 lines about your contributions and efforts to Ubuntu.
<Surfels> hi
<BlueT_> atie_: 3 lines only?!
<juliux> hi SHAKAL 
<Bluekuja> lol
<cbx33> BlueT_, see told ya :p
<SHAKAL> Hello and good evening from germany community
<Bluekuja> hello
<SHAKAL> hi juliux
<atie_> BlueT_, I know you have more than that... less than 10 lines?
<Bluekuja> 3 minutes and we go
<BlueT_> atie_: i prepared over 30 lines... lol
* cbx33 nominates Bluekuja to countdown :p
<Bluekuja> hehe
<atie_> BlueT_, lol
<Potter> LOL, Jalba.
<Jalba> :r
<Bluekuja> oh no 
<cbx33> last minute preparation
<Bluekuja> blue_t gone
<cbx33> aka briking it :p
<Seveas> keep it down please people - no need to clutter the logs 
<Bluekuja> ok dennis
<cbx33> my apologies
<Seveas> Kamion, elmo, mako ping
<BlueT_> irssi core dumped....  ToT
<BlueT_>   4 19 05:00:22 CST 2006
<BlueT_> here we go?
<Bluekuja> we have to wait the council
<Bluekuja> ^^
<Bluekuja> ciao matt ;)
<mdke> Bluekuja, hi
<BlueT_> irssi and gaim crashes oftenly :(
<BlueT_> freeflying: yo :D
<freeflying> BlueT_: hi
<Seveas> --- [elmo]  idle 03:09:21, signon: Sat Mar 25 03:42:13
<Seveas> --- [mako]  idle 01:04:46, signon: Wed Apr 12 12:14:24
<Seveas> doesn't look too good for quorum...
<kjcole> CC meeting, yes?
<highvoltage> yep
<SHAKAL> Hi Yann2
<kjcole> In that case ... ;-)
* kjcole is Kevin Cole
* highvoltage is JonathanCarter
* cbx33 is PeteSavage
<juliux> hi lucas 
* Lure is Luka Renko
* ompaul is Paul O'Malley
<mdke> Kamion, are the others coming?
<lucasvo> hi juliux 
* Seveas is BOFH
<ompaul> hehe
<mitsuhiko> Seveas: lol
* SHAKAL is Marko Rogge from Germany
* simira is Karianne Grnningster
<SHAKAL> hi mitsuhiko
<SHAKAL> :)
<Razor-X> I'm just here to observ :P.
<Razor-X> *observe
* Yann2 is Yann Hamon - Ubuntu-fr
* Toadstool is Jrmie Corbier
* mitsuhiko is Armin Ronacher from the german locoteam
<cbx33> AndreaVeri, good idea :p
<AndreaVeri> ^^
* rockin_stan is ThorstenKoelbl, Germany
* Ju is Julien Rottenberg
* Gloubiboulga is Gauvain Pocentek
* BlueT_ is Matthew Lien - Ubuntu-TW
* juliux is julius bloch from the german locoteam
<mako> hey all
<mako> was at a meeting
<AndreaVeri> hi mako
<Seveas> hey mako
<Toadstool> hi mako 
<mako> give me a couple minutess
<juliux> hi mako 
<Seveas> you're the first one to arrive 
<kjcole> Hiya mako
<mitsuhiko> hiho mako
<lucasvo> juliux: your name sounds like Blocher
<lucasvo> :)
<juliux> lucas, lol
<mako> hmm..
<lucasvo> a well known politician in ch ;)
<ompaul> mako, good afternoon/evening
<mako> alright.. i can sms
<highvoltage> hi mako 
<mako> see if anyone else arrives
<elmo> I'm here
<AndreaVeri> hi elmo
<juliux> hi elmo 
<ogra> yay, CC appears !
<highvoltage> and practically on time!
<lucasvo> hi everybody
<Seveas> Kamion should be around too, idle time of a few minutes
<mitsuhiko> ogra: finally ^^
<Seveas> mitsuhiko, they're quite early this time
<SHAKAL> Hi ogra
<cbx33> evenin ogra 
<ogra> hey hey
<Seveas> 
<imexius> Salutation from the Thundering Bay
<zul> thunder bay?
<imexius> yup
<zul> cool...my wife went to school there
<JaneW> where's that?
<tonyyarusso> Nice place.  I'm fond of the whole NW shore.
<imexius> Meh its alright, our population has dropped considerably though
<JaneW> hi ogra
<JaneW> even I made it :)
<ogra> hey JaneW 
<ogra> yeah
<Burgwork> imexius, join  #ubuntu-ca
<zul> hi JaneW 
<carthik> JaneW, probably Ontario, Canada
<ogra> we're still missing at least one CC member for quorum
<JaneW> oh dear
<juliux> ogra, i made edubuntu dvd boxes for wiesbaden
<JaneW> carthik: oic, thanks
<Razor-X> Silicon Valley's youth says ``Hi'' :).
<JaneW> juliux: COOL
<ogra> juliux, oh, i'm eager to see them :)
<JaneW> juliux: what's on them? Extra apps?
<Seveas> everyone: yell Kamion, maybe his highlight will explode 
<Riddell> I could text Kamion 
<juliux> JaneW, the normal edubuntu dvd image 
<JaneW> juliux: oh ok
<juliux> JaneW, with a nice cover
<JaneW> juliux: a newly designed one?
<mitsuhiko> .oO(where is smurf)
<JaneW> juliux: can we put it on the wiki?
<ogra> JaneW, current edubuntu DVD contains live and install iso as well as all of main
<tonyyarusso> All right.  We're all wondering where you are Kamion.  Please do grace us with your presence.  :)
<Lure> Seveas: Kamion mentioned need for bed in #ubuntu-devel 15 minutes ago...
<juliux> JaneW, sure
<Seveas> Lure, hmmm
* cbx33 is gonna work on some edubuntu artwork tomorrow probably :D
<mdke> guys, bear in mind the busy CC people have to read the scrollback, can we try and keep it clean/ontopic for them?
<juliux> JaneW, but i have to translate the cover into english
<JaneW> juliux: also is it a 6.06 flight or 5.10?
<Lure> [22:55]  <Kamion> but I'm exhausted and really need to go to bed soon or I can't be productive tomorrow, so I may need to fall over in the middle
<JaneW> juliux: np, german and/or English will be good
<juliux> JaneW, 5.10 but we are planing to do a cover vor 6.06
<kjcole> hi janew, ogra
<Seveas> maybe sabdfl can be found? mako?
<elmo> Riddell: please text him
<elmo> I've texted sabdfl already
<JaneW> mdke: ok sorry
<Riddell> elmo: doing
<Kamion> I'm on holiday today; I notified last week that I wasn't going to be here
<elmo> sabdfl's unavailable - if we can't get hold of colin, we'll have to either postpone, or proceed without voting
<Kamion> so please quit pinging me and SMSing me and stuff
<Kamion> because I really really really need to crash
<Kamion> sorry
<mdke> sleep well dude
<elmo> Kamion: ok, sorry
<ogra> sleep tight 
<highvoltage> goodnight, Kamion 
<Kamion> I was just stepping in on #ubuntu-devel to sort out urgent business for the beta
<mitsuhiko> Ubugtu: *ping*?
<Kamion> sorry, SMSing me is normally fine, just not tonight :)
<elmo> mako: what do you want to do - carry on or postpone?
<mako> i say we postpone
<mako> wel
<mako> if kamion can't make it
<mako> we can do it later this week if that works better
<elmo> mako: kamion can't make it
<elmo> it'd have to be friday, tomorrow and thursday are going to be beta-tastic
<kjcole> mako: Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel?
<elmo> (for at least me and kamion, anyway)
<Seveas> friday would be horrific for me :/
<mdke> friday is a great day for a party
* cbx33 orders the beers for friday
<mdke> but if Seveas can't make it...
<Seveas> mdke, i'm not important, I'll just have to postpone my agenda items 
<ompaul> Seveas, I can carry it 
<Seveas> ompaul, I really want to be there too 
<ompaul> hehe
<elmo> mako: how about this, we'll postpone for now and try and reschedule ASAP, the earliest being Friday - I'll mail us 4 and try and coordinate a date/time?
<tonyyarusso> Are weekends considered off-limits for working?
<eyequeue> my apologies for being late, problems at the doctor's office
<mako> that sounds fine
<Yann2> maybe it would be a good idea if CC-people could indicate on the CCAgenda if they can make it or not?
<mako> i'm not entirely sure what my schedule will look like but it will work
<elmo> ok - sorry everyone who turned up, but without quorum, there's not much point in proceeding
<cbx33> Yann2, sound like a good idea - I had to pull strings to get here today
<JaneW> who placed the Google SoC agenda item?
<cbx33> elmo, indeed...no worries
<elmo> Yann2: probably yes, we also need a 5th CC member to make quorum less of an issue - we're working on it
<atie_> postponing happened before?
<highvoltage> once, iirc
<lucasvo> JaneW: https://launchpad.net/people/dennis
<elmo> we'll put the new/time of the meeting on the CommunityCouncilAgenda wiki page
<lucasvo> aka Seveas
<elmo> if you want/need to be at the meeting, keep an eye on that
<tonyyarusso> elmo: Any idea by when?
<BlueT_> so, there's no meeting today?
<Seveas> lucasvo, nope
<mdke> BlueT_, that's right
<Seveas> it wasn't me
<Yann2> elmo > I mean, if cc staff "subscribed" to a meeting, we could know earlier if 5 people can make it or not? 
<elmo> tonyyarusso: as soon as I can get agreement from at least 3 people
<mdke> JaneW, we can look at the page history, hang on
<mitsuhiko> ...
<tonyyarusso> elmo: Ah, right.
<lucasvo> Seveas: oh, sorry, yes, you are the one with ircrules
<mitsuhiko> Yann2: same question here
<mdke> JaneW, PierreSlamich
<lucasvo> Seveas: I've misread that one :)
<BlueT_> mdke: it's 05:22am here. i haven't sleep waiting for this meeting XD
<JaneW> mdke: oh thanks
<elmo> mm, Mark may be coming.  one second
<JaneW> cos as it stands we have already registered as a mentor organisation again (still being processed)
<JaneW> we just need to figure out how much of a commitment we can make to it
<AndreaVeri> it would be very nice if mark will be here
<Seveas> AndreaVeri, cross your fingers 
<AndreaVeri> haha yeah
<BlueT_> cbx33: that's ok!
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl go
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl go
<mitsuhiko> ^^
<BlueT_> cbx33: but i'm affraid maybe i couldn't appear this weekend
<AndreaVeri> seveas is really excited using that emoticon after something
<AndreaVeri> eheh
<cbx33> BlueT_, nooooooo
<BlueT_> cbx33: coz i'll be at Kenting (another city) this weekend
<cbx33> awww that sux
<ompaul> AndreaVeri, we have defined it as over happy dutch person on irc, however as with all these things it has become broader with time  ;-)
<SHAKAL> hi or wb smurf
<SHAKAL> ;)
<AndreaVeri> haha :)
<juliux> hi smurf 
<smurf> *sigh* sorry for being late
<elmo> riddell/ogra: here?
<ogra> yep
<elmo> while we're waiting for our slac^Wfearless leader, I can probably answer your question about {k,ed}ubuntu teams
<mitsuhiko> smurf: we havn't started
<Riddell> elmo: hi
<ogra> i just want to know how much power^Wresponsibility we'll get in that process
<mitsuhiko> one cc member still missing
<elmo> the policy is basically that the CC is delegating membership management of those teams to you (the team leaders)
<elmo> however, you should use the same guidelines for membership that we do, i.e. sustained useful contributions
<ogra> so we act as a full CC replacement, with all responsibilitys and users are required to have the same reputation as in the CC meeting to get approval
<ogra> yeah
<elmo> not the same responsibilities, exactly, no
<ogra> (sorry lagging here)
<elmo> problems etc., dispute resolution and other CC like stuff still gets punted up to the CC
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> sounds fair and means standards will be maintained throughout
<elmo> but in terms of adding (and I guess removing) members, day to day, that's entirely on you
<ogra> i was only talking wrt membership
<elmo> yeah
<ogra> opk
<ogra> err
<ogra> ok
<elmo> Riddell: that ok/clear enough for you too?
<ogra> i just wanted an official statement, i was suspecting it that way (as Riddell was i think)
<Riddell> yeah, although I worry for when there's a decision where not all kubuntu contributors agree with my decision
<sabdfl> evening all
<juliux> hi sabdfl 
<mako> evening
<lucasvo> ah here he comes!
<Seveas> Riddell, then they can bring it to the CC 
<ogra> Riddell, you'll need to build a kubuntu council then
<mitsuhiko> yay :)
<Riddell> but we have kubuntu meetings as a first line for that and I guess CC as a second
<mitsuhiko> hiho sabdfl :)
<Toadstool> hi sabdfl :)
<sabdfl> apologies for being late
<kjcole> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> i only have a short time this evening
<elmo> Riddell: right, you can punt it up to the CC if you're not comfortable/confident in your decision
<AndreaVeri> hello sabdfl!!!
<sabdfl> mako!
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> sec while i pull up the agenda
<SHAKAL> Hi sabdfl
<BlueT_> hi sabdfl 
<mako> not a problem
<mako> i got a bit distracted in the last few minutes.. let me put stuff aside
<sabdfl> mako: where are you in the agenda now?
<mako> we haven't started
<mako> although elmo was talking with folks
<mako> Kamion isn't here so we weren't quorate
<elmo> mako/sabdfl: I was just discussing {k,ed}ubuntu-members with ogra/riddell - we haven't touched the rest of the agenda yet
<sabdfl> ok, quorate we now be
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks elmo
<sabdfl> i'm afraid i'm going to duck out in about half an hour
<sabdfl> so can i ask that we focus on the policy issues first?
<mako> alright.. 
<mako> the ones that need voting in particular
<mako> then see how far we can get through the member candidates
<JaneW> the Google SoC issue may not be relevant, we have signed up already...
* mako nods to JaneW 
<mako> alright
<ogra> and it would rather be a TB thing
<mako> lets waste no time
<mako> IRC rules
<mako> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcRules
<Seveas> I drafted the IRC rules for the reasons mentioned in the intro of that page
<Seveas> they reflect the current policy
<Seveas> and it would be nice to get an official 'OK'
<Seveas> or comments about why that can't happen 
<mdke> one minor point on that page, I feel that the phrase "Do not recommend outdated and bad information" might be put a little bit too high. It smacks a little bit of elitism to me.
<elmo> yeah, the whole page could do with some TLC, phrasing wise
<Seveas> mdke, I don't see it that way - it won't help people to give them bad advise
<Seveas> elmo: TLC?
<tonyyarusso> Maybe more along the lines of "Try to avoid..., and use newer information when available"?
<mdke> tender loving care
<sabdfl> good job in general, though, and thanks seveas
<mako> right, that paragraph is a bit strange
<sabdfl> i'd prefer guidelines to rules
<sabdfl> most of them are advisory, in any event
<tonyyarusso> They definitely seem solid so far.
<Seveas> sabdfl, I use guidelines everywhere in the page, except the name 
<mdke> Seveas, as I mentioned however in my email, "bad advice" is subjective. One of the examples you give there is in our desktop guide shipped with Dapper, for example
<mako> also because it lists a number of very specific documents
<mako> which will be incomplete
<sabdfl> it's great to have a concrete place to point people when questions come up
<mako> and could, with future revisions of said documents, become inaccurate
<Seveas> mdke, I call that a bug in the docs, but let's not argue about that here
<Seveas> (I mean that specific example)
<sabdfl>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductGuidelines
<sabdfl> do you expect these to be linked from there?
<mdke> Seveas, as I say, it's subjective.
<Seveas> sabdfl, that page is quite empty now
<mako> Seveas: that much is clear
<sabdfl>  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<sabdfl> it should be linked from the bottom of that page
<elmo> fwiw, they're ok by me (as guidelines, as sabdfl says), but I'd like to go over the wording of the document with seveas later and out of band
<sabdfl> do you guys think we should adopt these through some broader process (members vote?) or just CC +1?
<topyli> maybe cursing and touchy subjects should not be directed from #ubuntu to #ubuntu-offtopic (even with the advice to be considerate there too in parenthesis)
<mako> i share mdke's critique and think that the prohibition on "bad" advice is worrisome
<mdke> #ubuntu often gets a reputation (probably unjustly) as elitist and it's important that it is _seen_ not to be, as well as in reality. So a page like that needs to be just right
<cbx33> May I ask is there a policy on top-posting, several of the other mailing lists I am a member of insist on not topposting
<Razor-X> What if outdated advice is unintentional?
<smurf> sabdfl: CC
<sabdfl> cbx33: a set of mailing list guidelines would be equally useful, but right now we are focused on Seveas' Irc ones
<Seveas> mdke, the only times I heared of #ubuntu being elitist is from you
<mako> cbx33: no, that general nettiquitte but this is offtopic now
<mdke> Seveas, you don't read the forums much, I guess
<mako> Seveas: read the forums
<kjcole> What I see there seems general common sense and courtesy, although it would be nice to know that newbies are either cut some slack or required to read guidelines before arriving.
<cbx33> mako, over and out
<mdke> the best way to deal with dubious advice, is to politely give alternatives, rather than prohibit things a priori
<ompaul> topyli, the first is not the second is to move offside from a support context where it does not belong 
<tonyyarusso> We do frequently end up with cursing in offtopic b/c people think anything goes there.
<mako> lets stay focused on these guidelines please
<sabdfl> i agree with mako, elmo, mdke that the "don't give bad advice" item should come out
<mdke> calling them "guidelines" would solve a lot, I think
<mako> Seveas: i don't think any document of this sort should single out particular technologies or documents
<kjcole> (I say that because what is common sense to regulars is not always common sense to newcomers: e.g. away messages.)
<Seveas> mako, in the "don't give bad advise" they're not singled out, they're just examples
<mako> actually, i don't think the whole item should go out
<smurf> is that bad as in just-possibly-wrong, or bad as in intentionally-misleading?
<mako> just "    *
<mako>       Do not recommend outdated and bad information such as ubuntuguide.org or bad solutions such as using install-css.sh from libdvdread, running java-installer.bin files directly or using automatix. For all these things there are much safer alternatives available.
<tonyyarusso> Softening the wording or title would sit better with me too, I think.  Not lots, just carefully in spots like that.
<lucasvo> kjcole: you'll learn it after you get kicked once :)
<mako> i'd advocate removing that bit only
<mako> Seveas: right, i understand that
<mdke> smurf, the former, as I understand the page
<sabdfl> i don't think this document should get into specifics like automatix
<mako> Seveas: but they under-represent and, with time, may also over-represent
<kjcole> lucasvo: School of Hard Knocks?  Point taken. ;-)
<sabdfl> i prefer this as an "addendum and clarification to the code of conduct as applied to IRC conversations"
<mako> if nothing else, it makes things fragile
<mdke> sabdfl, absolutely not. There is no need for high level documents to rub people up the wrong way ;)
<Razor-X> I know I have referred outdated solutions in #ubuntu on accident, then corrected by someone else, so I think there is some danger there.
<lucasvo> kjcole: and newbies should read the guidelines
<mako> Seveas: in any case, better not to enshire particular documents as bad examples in this way
<sabdfl> i like the idea of having a set of these documents, for IRC, mailing lists, the forums, the wiki... best practices for communicating
* mako nods
<Seveas> to sum it up: soften the wording and be careful with examples
<mako> Seveas: well, the rest of it seems great
<sabdfl> yes, but in general +1 and thanks!
<mindspin> yup
<Seveas> I'll do that and get back later
<Seveas> let's waste no more time with it
<mako> a'ight
<tonyyarusso> Seveas: Sounds reasonable to me.
<mdke> mako/others, by the way, I wrote up a mailing list equivalent, if you can check it out when you're free, that would be lovely (wiki:Listiquette)
<sabdfl> Seveas: if you make placeholders for: IrcGuidelines, ForumGuidelines, MailingListGuidelines...
<tonyyarusso> Good job though on that draft.
<smurf> I'd change (or amend) that to specifically prohibit intentionally-misleading "advice"
<carthik> A general note to register with #freenode, and about PMs received from the bot would be nice (esp. ubotu's PMs)
<kjcole> lucasvo: In the chaos that is "wiki" one doesn't always arrive at things in logical order.  (I imagine it's easy to find how to get to an IRC channel before one is aware of a guidelines page.)
<kjcole> In any case +1
<Seveas> mdke, you know my mail address 
<tonyyarusso> smurf: Second that, rm -rf / should probably be dealt with more strongly.
<mdke> Seveas, yes. Why?
<Seveas> <mdke> mako/others, by the way, I wrote up a mailing list equivalent, if you can check it out when you're free, that would be lovely (wiki:Listiquette)
<Seveas> (missed the url, so ignore me)
<lucasvo> kjcole: it is still a draft. if it is final it should be a static html page 
<Seveas> can we move on?
<sabdfl> yes please
<sabdfl> whats the cloaking issue?
<mako> sabdfl: do you remember the old cloaking discussions?
<Seveas> sabdfl, you specifically said: "only ubunyu/member cloaks" - freenode however requests (not demands) for bots to be recognizable as bots, so ubuntu/bot/* would be nice
<mako> this sounds totally reasonable
<mdke> sounds like a plan
<mako> thumbs up from me
<sabdfl> +1
<ompaul> +1
<smurf> good idea; locobot should get that too
<tonyyarusso> Makes sense here.
<mitsuhiko> smurf: +1 ^^
<sabdfl> yowser that was easy :-)
<mako> elmo: ?
<mdke> and fabio's bot too
<Seveas> smurf, what's his registered nick?
<sabdfl> SOC2k6?
<mako> we can skip that
<mako> since we are alreasy signed up apparently
<mako> according to JaneW 
<elmo> yeah, that's obviously fine
<smurf> Seveas: not yet, actually; I'll register them and ping you
<Seveas> smurf, link all nicknames together please 
<mako> ok the next discussion in regards to kubuntu.de proposes discussing it later
<smurf> Seveas: sure
<JaneW> yep
<mako> like at the end of the meeting
<AndreaVeri> ok mako
<sabdfl> erk... i'd like to comment briefly, and won't be here much longer
<smurf> mako: why?
<mako> smurf: i don't know why
<highvoltage> mdke: i nearly read that as "23:50 < mdke> and fabio's bot too
<smurf> sabdfl: +1
<mako> smurf: that what it says on the agenda :)
<highvoltage> mdke: i mean "and fabio's hot too" :)
<juliux> mako, but it is very important
<mako> listen, i'm not arguing in favor of this
<mako> i'm just reading the agenda
<AndreaVeri> mako can we move to things that need vote?
<sabdfl> i think the person just didn't want to interrupt the membership discussions, but this is an important thing and we should discuss it now
<mako> alright
<sabdfl> ok, let me call for comments, one per person, say done when done, pretype them please!
<sabdfl> who has something to say on the kubuntu.de process and outcome?
<mako> i just want to make sure we spend quorate time on stuff that may lead to a vote
<lucasvo> am I right that they "sold" their site to a company that sells support?
<Seveas> sabdfl, /me
<sabdfl> folks, msg me if you want to comment, i'll then call per person, so we get to everyone
<Riddell> I'm working with german kubuntu users to get a new website happening, probably closely affiliated to ubuntuusers.de
<sabdfl> smurf
<smurf> my main problem with the whole kubuntu.de mess is that questions to amu as to why he hasn't brought the issue before the CC have been met with ... silence
<sabdfl> ok
<smurf> plus, kubuntu.de no redirects to ubunux.de which is silent on the problem too
<sabdfl> tonyyarusso: 
<tonyyarusso> I think looking into getting domain names would be a good idea.
<sabdfl> pregetting them?
<tonyyarusso> Yes.  To avoid future issues.
<sabdfl> mdke: go
<mdke> the kubuntu.de thing was a mess, but there is nothing that the CC can do about community members who fail to approach the matter through the correct channels. I've been happy that so far I haven't seen that their "ransom" has not received any attention from official channels, it doesn't deserve it.
<mdke> more should be done to integrate kubuntu and ubuntu locoteams though
<sabdfl> Seveas: go
<Seveas> sabdfl, +1 on mdke's comment about not bringing to the CC
<Seveas> nothing else
<sabdfl> mitsuhiko: go
<ompaul> sabdfl, 
<mitsuhiko> the main problem was that ubuntu and kubuntu teams don't work together on the german side
<mitsuhiko> now the whole kubuntu.de is down and users stand and ask what to do now
<sabdfl> highvoltage: go
<mitsuhiko> it would be good if ubuntuusers.de would integrate kubuntu more
<mitsuhiko> !done
<smurf> some people seem to think that KDE people will run away screaming when they are 'forced' to support users in a forum where Gnome is also mentioned occasionally :-/
<highvoltage> well, on that issue, I wrote this blog entry: http://jonathancarter.co.za/blog/?postid=27
<rockin_stan> mitsuhiko: +1
<mdke> i agree with mitsuhiko 
<highvoltage> i felt that the issue was bordering on extortion, although i won't mention names or specific incidents.
<sabdfl> ok, mako, elmo?
<highvoltage> done;
<smurf> AFAIR tat was cited as one of the main reasons why there is/was/??? a kubuntu.de domain in the first place
<mdke> sabdfl, another quick comment here
<sabdfl> go ahead mdke
<mdke> recently the italian locoteam (today) has discussed the possibility of integrating edubuntu initiatives into the ubuntu-it community structure, we feel it can be done easily, as with kubuntu. the same locoteam can deal with more than one derivative, with shared resources and/or separate websites.
<mako> so i agree with mitsuhiko and mdke for the most part..
<sabdfl> i think that's everyone who /msg'd me
<mako> i think there are some interesting unaddressed questions about where loco teams stands in the kubuntu/ubuntu divide
<mako> and in terms of actually doing things
<mako> some questions i don't know the answers to in regards to the trademark
<Yann2> agree with what has been said until now, too... have been really pleased canonical didn't gave it much attention.
<mako> and canonical's role
<sabdfl> yes, there's an ambiguity in "ubuntu the overall umbrella project" and "ubuntu the gnome desktop distro that is a peer of kubuntu the kde desktop distro"
<mako> and the degree to which canonical will jump if the CC says to jump :)
<ogra> edubuntu is happy about every loco portal that includes sopptort for it (as a sidenote, since edubuntu was mentioned a lot in the kubuntu.de argument)
<ogra> *support
<mdke> sabdfl, only one way to solve that one ;)
<smurf> mako: the German team's position is that we support both equally, even if our site's look+feel is geared more towards the Gnome side.
<sabdfl> gubuntu?
<mdke> heh
<mako> sabdfl: time to throw away the gnome distribution
<sabdfl> :-p
<mako> ok everyone
<mdke> lol
<mako> compromise, ion3
<mitsuhiko> rofl
<ompaul> -1
<ogra> mako, lol
<sabdfl> ok, folks, order
<sabdfl> it's interesting how this varies from country to country
<mako> it's not clear to me WHAT we can do it about
<sabdfl> i think germany is special w.r.t. kde
<ompaul> sabdfl, may I on the kubuntu issue?
<mako> or what the CC is being asked to do
<sabdfl> does anyone know what the current status is of Amu and \sh's feelings, or position?
<mako> other than try to prevent it in the future
<mako> which is most of what i've gotten out of this
<xorAxAx> .oO(twm)
<juliux> sabdfl, amu has canceld the kubuntu booth at the linuxtag in wiesbaden
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: they arn't rachable currently via jabber or irc
<sabdfl> ok
<mitsuhiko> \sh is in a bad situation currently
<smurf> sabdfl: they're not talking to people who bring the issue before the CC, as far as I know
<mitsuhiko> and amu isn't responsable
<Lure> \sh was online yesterday in #kubuntu-devel
<mitsuhiko> we just know that the booth was canceled
<smurf> mitsuhiko: not responding, you mean
<sabdfl> well, first mdke is spot on in asking how this blew up into a canonical issue before it became a CC issue
<mitsuhiko> smurf: jep :)
<mindspin> will kubuntu be presented by the german ubuntu team?
<highvoltage> i've seen \sh on -motu and -devel yesterday, he seemed to be involved, although I couldn't say for sure
<Riddell> mindspin: I don't know of any developer who's going
<mitsuhiko> mindspin: juliux is looking for some guys to present kubuntu there
<juliux> mindspin, if we find kubuntuusers they can present kubuntu at the ubuntu community booth at the linuxtag in wiesbaden
<mindspin> I#ll mail you
<sabdfl> let's deal separately with the linuxtag booth
* mako nods to sabdfl 
<mdke> maybe in another channel
<sabdfl> where is the "heart and mind" of the kubuntu german community?
<Razor-X> I think we should maybe try for better cooperation between Ubuntu and Kubuntu in general. I think it may benefit the community more if we do more to make it all seem unified with slight differences, if I may be so audacious to say.
<mitsuhiko> sabdfl: currently #kubuntu-de
<mitsuhiko> they lost their webpage
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-16
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 17 Apr 23:00: Kernel Team | 18 Apr 04:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:00: Development Team | 25 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu
<mattva01> Excuse me, i have a question about getting a LoCo team approved
<pochu> mattva01: #ubuntu-locoteams is your friend ;)
<mattva01> oh im sorry
<pochu> mattva01: np
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-17
<BFTD> isn't it duuku?
<imbrandon> @schedule US/Chicago
<imbrandon> @schedule Chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 17 Apr 10:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 15:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 10:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 15:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu
<SWAT> @schedule amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 17 Apr 17:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu
<ranf> hi
<nolander_101>  hi
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Apr 11:00: Kernel Team | 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<BenC> So, we're all here...
<BenC> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting although it is a bit out-of-date
<BenC> kernel-release schedule...uh, released :)
<BenC> bug status...stable, but still reviewing for post-release updates
<BenC> I think basically we're at a point where we can move on to gutsy topics, and the new kernel tree
<rtg> Lets cleanup the wireless stuff.
<BenC> well, the tree is going to change considerably
<BenC> stock kernel is going to be in ubuntu-2.6.git
<BenC> all extra drivers are being moved to a linux-ubuntu-modules package
<pkl_> the current tree will be used for any updates to Feisty?
<pkl_> The new tree will only be for Gutsy?
<BenC> pkl_: ubuntu-feisty.git is for feisty security and stable release updates
<BenC> right
<BenC> ubuntu-2.6.git right now is just a clone of linux-2.6.git
<zul> im still mulling over the virtualization infrastructure stuff
<BenC> I'll push that to the public kernel.org repo soon
<BenC> zul: probably best to hang tight till I get the build infrastructure in place
<zul> BenC: no problem..
<BenC> at this point, I have a local .diff of the delta between ubuntu-feisty.git and upstream code
<BenC> I'm merging patches into for-linus branch in preparation for the 2.6.22 merge window with Linus
<BenC> but we'll be sending out the patches sooner than that to get good feedback
<pkl_> how much of this delta will be pushed upstream?
<BenC> my intention is to get all of it pushed upstream
<mjg59> Are you differentiating between core code and external drivers?
<BenC> the current diff is only ~65k, and a lot of that is toshiba_acpi and DSDT-acpi-initramfs
<mjg59> Ok
<BenC> mjg59: yes
<mjg59> Len's consistently refused the DSDT-acpi-initramfs patch
<BenC> I haven't touched the ubuntu/* stuff yet
<BenC> I know, but it's so bogus to do so
<mjg59> Indeed
<BenC> we allow DSDT to be built into the kernel, so there's no argument for not allowing manual DSDT override
<BenC> I think it's the initramfs early prep that's ugly, but unavoidable
<BenC> Anyway, I'll post my current diff, and keep it updated as I put things in for-linus...need to push that branch out to the ubuntu-2.6.git anyway
<fabbione> BenC: question... now that you want to have ubuntu-2.6.git basically vanilla and linux-ubuntu-modules...
<fabbione> what about patches that affects deeply vanilla?
<fabbione> are we going to fork the code and slam it in ubuntu-modules?
<fabbione> and if so how to we managed changes to core parts of the kernel that needs to be inline?
<BenC> in severe cases yes...minor updates (like some of the ocfs2 stable patches) we can keep in the vanilla tree
<BenC> I'm going to be extremely tight on what goes in there...mostly to keep myself in check
<BenC> I've always been pretty liberal with syncing to things like drivers/ata/, and most times for good reason, but we always end up getting bitten with some unforseen bugs
<BenC> check-ins for ubuntu-2.6 will most times go through a two-signed-off-by process
<BenC> even for me :)
<fabbione>     Signed-off-by: Ben Collins <bcollins@ubuntu.com>
<BenC> exceptions will be things like debian/* updates and trivial s/KERN_ERR/KERN_INFO/ types things
<fabbione>     Signed-off-by: Angie Collins <acollins@ubuntu.com>
<BenC> lol, busted
<BenC> I'll be writing up a more thorough explanation of the gutsy tree this week
<BenC> update wiki, etc.
<rtg> I assume jgarzik will choose 2.6.22 as the next stable tree. Why wouldn't we track it almost exactly for the next 3 or 4 months?
<fabbione> rtg: because users will never be satisfied without their tons of extra drivers
<BenC> rtg: we'll get it by naturally following linux-2.6, so to avoid delta and crud, we'll just wait for it
<fabbione> or tons of extra patches to gain half FPS out of glxgears
<BenC> rtg: if he syncs for 2.6.22, then we'll get it within 3-4 weeks anyway
<BenC> fabbione: I need for gutsy's kernel process to be an excercise in how gutsy+1 will go (since it maybe the next LTS)
<BenC> so we may end up saying "Sorry, we can't take in a huge chunk of code for drivers/char/drm/ updates because we need the current code to remain stable"
<kylem> did you revert the drm stuff for feisty, btw?
<fabbione> BenC: oh yeah. i get your idea.. that's not the issue... i have the feeling it's going to clash with other kind of requests like .. we need to support my Bluetooth dildo kind of thing
<BenC> where as before it was like "Sure, I'll git-pull the entire damn thing"
<BenC> kylem: I reverted my initial sync, but then dropped back to 2.6.21's stuff
<kylem> ok.
<BenC> fabbione: bluetooth dildo == Wishlist...want me to open a bug for you? :)
<fabbione> BenC: sure thing :)
<BenC> so a big portion of the roadmap for gutsy revolves around these changes in the build system, and kernel maint policies
<BenC> some of these things will get discusses at UDS because they could benefit from input outside the kernel-team (release managers, archive maint, etc)
<BenC> some of them will just get done (ditching kernel-package, O= build system, linux-source split from linux-ubuntu-modules, etc.)
<BenC> Ah, another bug area we want to fill is validation testing of the kernel build
<mjg59> Well, the difficulty is in ensuring that we don't regress in breadth of hardware support
<BenC> things like module.alias checking, alias overlaps, etc
<BenC> mjg59: exactly
<mjg59> And sometimes, that's likely to require us to modify core code
<BenC> we already have a trivial module checker in feisty that makes sure we don't have modules go missing between builds
<BenC> mjg59: I don't think we have any patches in feisty like that...things we have to core code can either be synced upstream now, or if it's major, pushed to linux-ubuntu-modules
<BenC> toshiba_acpi is one I think might end up that way
<mjg59> Well, strictly toshiba_acpi should be rewritten to generate input events
<BenC> but the likelyhood of that happening considering the acpi-event patch has been around over a year? :)
<mjg59> Depends on how much spare time I have
<mjg59> It's not likely to be merged in its current state
<BenC> yeah, I recall the lkml discussions about the current patch
<BenC> toshiba_acpi still has a bunch of stuff to be compatible with our own toshset package though
<kylem> or someone else could just fix it up...
<mjg59> toshiba_acpi as it currently stands is a bit of a screaming nightmare
<mjg59> And the old maintainer doesn't handle it any more
<mjg59> I should just take over
<BenC> guess we should move on...
<BenC> feisty security/updates
<BenC> we already know what's in git
<BenC> are there any patches we knew of in lp right now that need to go into post-release feisty kernel?
<BenC> I know we need some more id's moved from ata_piix to piix
<BenC> bug #84603
<ubotu> Malone bug 84603 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Hard disk I/O randomly freezes when hald is running and optical drive is empty" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84603
<zul> the microsoft keyboard patch is one I can think of
<BenC> there's a workaround, so not critical for release
<rtg> I'm close to figuring out bug #103768
<ubotu> Malone bug 103768 in linux-source-2.6.20 "softmac and network-manager cite unreconcilable differences" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103768
<pkl_> tifm driver, moving from 0.7 to 0. again (reverted sometime last month)
<BenC> rtg: don't forget ubuntu/net/wireless/wext-old.c ...it's the most likely area of the problem
<pkl_> 0. -> 0.8
<rtg> BenC: I'm leaving tracks all over it trying to figure out the race.
<BenC> rtg: compare the code to what's in net/core/wireless.c
<BenC> might give some clues
<fabbione> BenC: the OCFS2 stuff please
<BenC> pkl_: did I revert that by mistake when I updated tifm/mmc?
<fabbione> (for feisty)
<BenC> fabbione: In git, so queued
<pkl_> BenC: yes
<fabbione> BenC: cool
<BenC> pkl_: ok, shoot me later...can you prepare a diff to bring things back?
<pkl_> BenC: yes
<BenC> as of now, any patches proposed for feisty (other than embargoed security patches) should go through kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
<BenC> I think that's all the main topics I had to discuss
<BenC> anyone have anything they want to bring up?
<BenC> Anyone have comments on the feisty kernel release, how the crisis was handled, addition suggestions for improvement, or suggestions for gutsy kernel, specs, etc...
<BenC> ?
<fabbione> hmm i somehow have one...
<pkl_> only, wondering it's normally like that at release time :)
<fabbione> note that this is only my point of view..
<fabbione> pkl_: no we have seen far worst at release time
<BenC> pkl_: usually not that bad...we always have a crisis, but never 5 in a row :)
<BenC> strictly speaking for the kernel side of things
<fabbione> but i think now that the kernel team is growing, you should be able to handover stuff between members in a slightly easier way
<BenC> fabbione is right, we've had some bad release crisis before
<fabbione> and in case of disasters like this one
<BenC> fabbione: that's on my personal agenda...handing off more of my responsibilities
<fabbione> with a 4 people kernel team, you should be able to cover the 24h without issues
<fabbione> BenC: yeps.. i am just saying what i think i saw
<fabbione> it's up to you guys how much you want to weight it
<fabbione> i don't expect you to follow my directions ;)
<BenC> well, we can't cover 24hours since pkl sleeps late, kyle and I are both EST, and Tim is only 2 hours behind us :)
<fabbione> BenC: well that's where i want to go..
<BenC> plus tim wakes up early
<fabbione> if there is a crisis, i think there is the option for people in the team to shift a few hours around
<fabbione> and cover almost the 24h
<BenC> fabbione: might be a good idea for us to spread our during major milestones
<BenC> s/our/out/
<fabbione> i know that 75% of kernel team is US based but most of the distro team is EU
<BenC> beta and RC seem like good points for that
<cjwatson> pkl_: I'm in the process of writing up a document/rant/whatever on past Ubuntu release panics
<fabbione> that somehow clashes a bit when there are situations like this one
<fabbione> in which we need to be more in sync than ever
<cjwatson> pkl_: mostly so that people experiencing it for the first time don't feel quite so much like the universe is collapsing
<fabbione> BenC: yeps.. just to have a Plan B crisis for when it's strictly required.
<fabbione> BenC: i am not saying you should be 24/7 always
<fabbione> that would be an insane expectation
<BenC> fabbione: bad thing is, most of the team gets up after EU, and because of the flow, kernel team needs to fix things in order for EU folks to get things done(cd runs)
<BenC> so it gets bad for people like cjwatson and Mithrandir
<cjwatson> there was a case during this crisis where I ended up trying to hack up test kernels because nobody else was around and I couldn't find the current state
<cjwatson> I'd like that not to happen again
<cjwatson> (and mdz was desperate to get progress)
<BenC> cjwatson: maybe a crisis center we can keep updated and concise for things like this
<BenC> s/crisis center/wiki page/
<fabbione> BenC: yes i do understand that.. nothing stops one of the kernel team to be part of the release process and be able to pre-build CD at the end of the US shift right before EU wakes up
<cjwatson> BenC: lag between kernel team and CD team is several hours, so had it been the other end of the day it would have been OK
<BenC> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> it gets bad when you get stuff done around your early afternoon that needs to be pushed through urgently
<fabbione> anyway it was just the way i felt it.. nobody should take it personal or feel bad because i know you have still done an amazing job
<BenC> we could definitely see about two kernel team members working more evening shifts to do things, and catch the EU folks before handing off to the other kernel team members
<pkl_> There was a number of times I didn't know what had happen to the kernel overnight (after I'd gone to bed), but was being asked as I was the only kernel team member around.
<cjwatson> pkl_: yeah, in those cases I had a feeling you simply didn't have the information but had to ask
<BenC> we should do a better job of handing off info and state, for sure
<cjwatson> next time, I would like things to be arranged such that you do have the information
<BenC> post mortum will be a hot topics at UDS :)
<cjwatson> fabbione: it wouldn't hurt to have a session at UDS on rapid change management - how to get from kernel git commit to CDs as fast as possible
<BenC> generally, I'm hoping process changes for development cycle will reduce the crisis level altogether, but a good crisis policy is required
<cjwatson> perhaps informally
<fabbione> cjwatson: sounds like an idea.. it would also help for people to be more familiar with git
<fabbione> as it is now it's only a very few of us
<rtg> kylem has offered to lead a git bootcamp at UDS.
<fabbione> rtg: yes i know.. it would be more interesting to see how many people will actually show up :)
<BenC> cjwatson: what can we do about making it easier to get urgent kernel uploads into the buildd's faster?
<fabbione> git == kernel in some people mind and kernel == evil
<cjwatson> BenC: speaking of distributing responsibilities, would it be possible to distribute the task of preparing feisty bits for upstream merge and setting up the gutsy tree?
<BenC> cjwatson: yes, we discussed that at the beginning
<cjwatson> BenC: even if it's really only a one-person task, I think that would be useful to increase the team's familiarity with what we've changed versus upstream
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> I read through but I guess I missed that you were distributing it
<BenC> however gutsy tree will be new build system, so it's going to be in flux for a couple weeks
<BenC> I think I can push off the upstream merge entirely to someone else, if anyone is interested
<fabbione> BenC: i strongly reccomends to get a gutsy upload for toolchain soonish and change the build system immediatly after
<cjwatson> BenC: urgent kernel uploads> I think that really comes under Soyuz improvements, which will hopefully be a bit easier now that we have two Soyuz hackers again
<fabbione> BenC: or at least coordinate that with doko
<BenC> fabbione: how about I just get you a linux-libc-dev upload out of the tree, no kernel images
<cjwatson> significant publisher speed improvements are due to land with PPA
<fabbione> BenC: it's an option.. but talk to doko to make sure it's ok with him
<fabbione> BenC: glibc should be fine with the current running kernels on the buildd.. i am not sure about all arches tho
<BenC> cjwatson: do you think ppa will be a good alternative to the way we were doing things with test kernels (build locally, upload to rookery)?
<doko> BenC: I would appreate it if the kernel headers could stay stable until new glibc/binutils/gcc are in the archive.
<doko> s/appreate/appreciate/
<BenC> doko: so you don't want me to upload anything yet?
<cjwatson> BenC: I think the immediate intention is more for things that aren't speed-critical
<cjwatson> it'll build from scratch every time, so it isn't going to get near the performance of a ccached incremental build
<doko> BenC: well, the current toolchain updates are tested; and it's likely that headers break on some architecture. AFAIK the archive isn't open yet.
<fabbione> doko: aren't we supposed to bootstrap the toolchain starting from kernel headers? or do you want to change that later?
<BenC> cjwatson: maybe a dedicated machine for this sort of thing would be nice...I'm not sure the whole team can do fast build/upload cycles like we were doing
<fabbione> doko: ok
<cjwatson> (PPA => Personal Package Archives, basically per-person apt archives with uploaders and such attached implemented in Launchpad)
<doko> fabbione: we never did a full bootstrap; I did put that on the UDS agenda
<cjwatson> BenC: let's talk about this more on the phone in a bit, but one idea would be to ensure that each of you has access to the others' fast personal build machines
<BenC> doko: Catch be out-of-band for more discussion, I want to make sure I'm not blocking you
<BenC> cjwatson: ok
<BenC> we're just about out of time
<cjwatson> datacentre hosting is good for most of the distro team, but for kernel development having the box locally is pretty valuable
<BenC> any last minute comments?
<fabbione> LOVE YA!
<BenC> kylem, pkl, rtg: Congrats on your guys first release cycle nearly at an end...I know it was rough, but everyone did a great job
<BenC> fabbione: DITTO!
<BenC> have a good week everyone, party on Thursday
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Apr 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<ranf> hi
<Seveas> hi ranf, you're early
<ranf> Seveas, yea I know, get a better seat that way
<sid> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU
<ranf> @schedule Mars
<ranf> @schedule berlien
<ranf> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 17 Apr 22:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: MOTU
<ogra> Mars ?
<ranf> corner case test
<ogra> Seveas, thats a serious bug ... we dont have Mars TZs
* ogra checks if his personal TZ exists
<ogra> @schedule atlantis
<ogra> bah
<Seveas> ranf, gt it added to pytz and ubotu supports it :p
<ranf> @schedule posixrules
<ubotu> Schedule for posixrules: 17 Apr 16:00: Community Council | 18 Apr 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 11:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU
<ranf> Seveas, pytz is a package?
<Seveas> !info python-tz
<ubotu> python-tz: Python version of the Olson timezone database. In component main, is extra. Version 2006g-1 (edgy), package size 181 kB, installed size 3420 kB
<ranf> k
<Seveas> emonkey, dude, adding yourself one hour before the meeting is annoying...
<sacater> Seveas: the meeting is in one hour?
<Seveas> better be prepared ;)
<Seveas> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 18:51:44 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 8 minutes
<Seveas> sacater, 8 minutes more ;)
<sacater> :P
<sacater> are you going to be doing the membership thing
<sacater> :o
<Seveas> depends on what you mean with 'doing the membership thing'
<Seveas> I'll be poking at buttons in launchpad
<emonkey> Seveas, sorry, if it's better I can do it the next time
<emonkey> no worry for me
<Seveas> emonkey, no, it's perfctly fine. It just means CC people can never be completely prepared when they come to the meting
<Seveas> emonkey, but I'm pretty sure your membership application will be dealt with quickly :)
<sacater> :o
* sacater is here for membership
<juliux> Seveas, what do you think about to froze the agenda site a few days befor the meeting?
<emonkey> I hope I can answer in reasonable time, unfortunately my english isn't the best
<Seveas> juliux, I've been thinking about that
* kkubasik is here for membership as well ;)
<emonkey> I'm a bit slow
<juliux> Seveas, i personal don't check the agenda site every day, so it would be better if the topics are three or four days bevor the meeting fix
<sacater> Seveas: shall i start bringing my 'fanclub' in
* welp is already 'in'
<sacater> ywp
<sacater> i can see
<juliux> Seveas, should i add this to the topic for today;)
<juliux> s/topic/agenda
<Seveas> juliux, neh
<juliux> Seveas, just joking;)
<ogra> wow, busy pre-meeting noise in here :)
<sacater> oh yes
<juliux> ogra, europe is now utc+2 and not +1 ;)
<Seveas> ogra, an hour of it ;)
<Seveas> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 18:59:41 - Next meeting: Community Council in 1 hour 0 minutes
<ogra> heh
<Seveas> emonkey, you didn't document your ubuntu contributions on your wikipage
<Seveas> emonkey, you *must* do that before applying otherwise the meetings will take far too long
<Seveas> (same goes for a few other candidates for today, but they are not here yet)
* ScottK is here (just in case you meant me).
<kkubasik> cept me :)
<Seveas> ScottK, I didn't :)
<ScottK> Great.  Thanks.
* bkingx is here for membership
<kkubasik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinKubasik
<kkubasik> im assuming that part comes later, but yeah
<Seveas> bkingx, are there other kentucky members here to cheer for you?
<Seveas> kkubasik, this is just my pre-meeting check :)
<kkubasik> haha, sounds good ;)
<bkingx> Seveas: etank and Zuph are here
<kkubasik> I can imagine that these aren't always the fastest things
<Seveas> bkingx, good
<Seveas> kkubasik, they tend to take long if people come unprepared (like emonkey)
<kkubasik> yeah
<bkingx> Seveas: I am expecting atopance and possibly Vorian as well
<Seveas> bkingx, that's quite a fanclub
<Seveas> good!
<etank> yay bkingx
* kkubasik is a lonely loser :( 
<kkubasik> ;)
<bkingx> ;)
<Zuph> yay kkubasik
<kkubasik> hhehe weee!!!!
<somerville32> My neck hurts.
<sacater> Seveas: want to perform a pre-meeting check on me?
<Seveas> sacater, already did. You documented things :)
<Seveas> COuld be fleshed out a bit, but should probably do
<Seveas> (Not saying anything about the quality of contributions here, just the documnting bit)
<sacater> Seveas: i dont do documenting....
<sacater> i do support tracking mainly
<sacater> tiny bit of packaging...
<apokryphos> sacater: I presume he means wiki entry etc
<Seveas> sacater, documenting your contributions I mean ;)
<sacater> and a few bug reports
<sacater> oh
<sacater> okies
<sacater> btw, take a look at this before the meeting, should make you laugh if you like stand-up comedy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OUykE3Uvb0&NR=1
<sacater> makes me smile :P
<Nafallo> morning all ;-)
<sacater> Nafallo: ello
<Seveas> yeager, are you serious?
<Seveas> adding yourself 40 minutes before meeting and not having anything on your wikipage
<Seveas> Please come prepared!
<yeager> Seveas: i'm editing my wiki page now
<sacater> yeager: took me a day or 2 to prepare my mine
<sacater> im 14, my mind is limited...
<Seveas> yeager, you could give the people on the CC some time to prepare for the meeting instead of last-minute rushing
<juliux> Seveas, pls let me add "shoudl the cc agend be frozen 4 days befor the meeting?" to the agend for today
<somerville32> yeager has a hell of a lot of karma
<Seveas> juliux, yeah....
<Seveas> let's do that
<Seveas> somerville32, that doesn't matter: unprepared is unprepared
<apokryphos> do those on the CC even read before the meeting starts? ;)
<somerville32> Seveas: Just making an observation ;] 
<Seveas> apokryphos, some of them do
<Seveas> and I like to b prepared as well
<Nafallo> I think I added myself 5 minutes before the meeting when I was approved though :-P
<yeager> updated my wiki page now
<juliux> somerville32, did you check every day the meeting agend? i check the agenda somedays befor the meeting and then i deciced if i will join the meeting or not
<Seveas> yeager, that page still says nothing
<somerville32> juliux, I'm subscribed to the page. I  get notified everytime someone edits it.
<Nafallo> yeager: you forgot ubuntu-nordic, and that you are the one doing most of the Swedish translations in both Ubuntu and Debian.
<juliux> somerville32, hm ok, i stoped subscribing every wikipage and mailinglist
<Seveas> yeager, take a look at for instance brian kings page, or micah cowans....
<apokryphos> somerville32: a lot of extra time? :P
<Nafallo> yeager: and that you've been giving support in the swedish channel since ages :-)
<somerville32> apokryphos, Indeed! Did you expect me to get back to work quickly after spending two months in the hospital? lol :P
<apokryphos> somerville32: how've you been?
<somerville32> apokryphos, I think I'm doin' a lot better but only time will tell, I guess. : )
<apokryphos> cool =)
<yeager> Nafallo: i don't know how much information I should put on that page.. i'm just a poor translator :)
<Seveas> somerville32, what do you mean with your agenda item?
<kkubasik> yeager: just say for who and stuff
<apokryphos> yeager: you can get an idea by looking at others' pages
<Nafallo> yeager: EVERYTHING! ;-)
<Nafallo> yeager: reporting bugs, running development versions... :-)
<somerville32> Seveas: sabdfl asked me to work with salgado to ensure that lp infrastructure was in place for the CC vote.
<Seveas> somerville32, aight
* micahcowan started working on his wiki page the moment he thought he might someday apply for membership (otherwise, it'd be hell to try to remember everything)
<mattva01> i'm thinking of applying for membership
<Seveas> micahcowan, you've been doing things for ages, about time you applied :)
<mattva01> Dont think I've done enough though
<micahcowan> Seveas, have I? :)  ...I never really knew how much was "enough", and wanted to be on the safe side.
<Seveas> micahcowan, that's the good approach at this, makes our lif much easier
<Nafallo> micahcowan: like me then :-)
<micahcowan> :)
<Nafallo> I don't even remember when I applied :-P
<Seveas> Nafallo, btw: make sure you put your cheers on yeagers wikipage :)
<Nafallo> Seveas: oh? on the wiki those days? :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, it helps
<Nafallo> Seveas: glad you told me :-)
<Seveas> Nafallo, and it provides some page filling for him ;)
<Devaux> Hi there
<Nafallo> Seveas: hehe :-)
<yeager> seriously need a smoke..
<Seveas> 'Translation karma: insane' should be enough for membership, but propely documented is better
<Nafallo> yeager: then I grab your wiki... ;-)
<micahcowan> heh
<Nafallo> Seveas: lol
<micahcowan> Oh, holy &!*, that /is/ a huluvalot of karma.
<Nafallo> I need my Ubuntu password :-P
<Seveas> micahcowan, it is
<kkubasik> I guess I have bug-triage-ing karma
<Devaux> Is Mark here?
<Devaux> 8o)
<kkubasik> ;)
<Nafallo> I hope my other PC likes me today, since it's in an encrypted file :-P
<Seveas> Devaux, not yet
* Seveas sends Bruce Schneier to Nafallo's aid
* micahcowan thinks yeager found the "epic launchpad activity of +32k karma"
<Nafallo> Seveas: the PC won't even start :-P
<micahcowan> jk :)
<Seveas> Nafallo, :p
<ranf> I've lost a bunch of karma points. Dunno where they hide.
<kkubasik> they expire with time
<Seveas> ranf, a karma of 70 is not too impressive
<ranf> kkubasik, must be smth. new then?
<kkubasik> I wanna say half-lifed, just because it would be cool and fun
<juliux> Seveas, better then nothing;)
<micahcowan> ranf, the scale has changed /drastically/, from time to time, too. I think mine used to be a lot closer to yeager's at one point (but his would've registered as a couple mil, then, if I'm even right that the scale was like that)
<Seveas> juliux, true
<juliux> Seveas, and karam is unfair there is no karma for no tech things
<kkubasik> ranf: ? I don't follow
<Seveas> juliux, are you going to cheer for rang for his ubuntu-de contributions?
<Seveas> juliux, that's why we want properly documented contributions and look at all of them
<micahcowan> Yeah, it's a little sad to break my butt with gdb and submit a debdiff, and see the karma go up by a pretty dang small amount :)
<juliux> Seveas, no i wasn't it
<Seveas> juliux, too bad, he needs some cheerleaders
* micahcowan does 2
<yeager> my karma was 10M+ last year (before the reset)
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 19:40:26 - Next meeting: Community Council in 19 minutes
<sacater> good..
<jussi01> sacater, you getting jumpy?
<Devaux> Where can I buy this ehm... karma? :)
<kkubasik> eh, I like that it decreeases, it doesn't make new members feel alientated and unable to help
<Seveas> yeager, same here ;)
<yeager> Seveas: :)
<sacater> jussi01: oh yes....
<jussi01> wb sacater
<micahcowan> Q: why does communitycouncil have like 4 members, almost(?) none of whom are here?
<sacater> yeh
<sacater> thats the sort of stupid thing i DONT want to do in here :OP
<Seveas> micahcowan, A: because launchpad misses parts to support the vote for a new council
<micahcowan> to be added RSN?
<Seveas> NOTE FOR ALL MEMBER CANDIDATES: open a text editor and prepare a three-line introduction
<Seveas> so you can paste that when I call you
<sacater> waht...
<sacater> 3 lines
<sacater> i did 25
<sacater> aw..... fudgecake....
<Seveas> sacater, that's good for a wiki
<Seveas> irc is for shorter texts :)
<Seveas> 3 lines may be a bit short, but please no more than 10
<sacater> ok
<sacater> let me cut it down
<micahcowan> sacater, me too :)
<micahcowan> 3 lines in an editor may == 10 lines in IRC, depending on configuration...
<juliux> micahcowan, line == 70characters
<sacater> dagnabit!
<welp> sacater: use vim and do :set textwidth=70
<welp> ;)
<welp> vim++
<sacater> welp: too late
<micahcowan> welp, yeah, but won't that also introduce linebreaks that may interfere with actual IRC client widths? I just resized my gvim to 72 columns. :)
<welp> tsk.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<micahcowan> what?
<micahcowan> :)
<Seveas> T minus (10 + CC delay) minutes
<sacater> are we active?
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 19:50:39 - Current meeting: Community Council
<mc44> Seveas: oh you pessimist :)
<ranf> boah 6 min before
<atoponce> MikeB-: howdy.
<juliux> first rule for all member candidates be patient;)
<juliux> hey LaserJock
<emonkey> k
<micahcowan> LaserJock! :)
<sacater> LaserJock is sponsering me
<sacater> i think :P
<sacater> .......and he cant even spell sponsor...
<MikeB-> atoponce: hiya
<atoponce> MikeB-: when are you up for the CC? or did i miss it?
<MikeB-> atoponce: not sure what happened with that
<Seveas> atoponce, MikeB-: launchpad lacks supporting things
<atoponce> Seveas: so, it's a launchpad thing that we're waiting on, then?
<auge> hi
<Seveas> atoponce, afaik
<atoponce> ok. cool
<sacater> Seveas: time to go?
<MikeB-> Seveas: oic
<atoponce> Tue Apr 17 19:55:47 UTC 2007
<Seveas> sacater, when the CC arrives
<ompaul> @now bermuda
<ubotu> Current time in Atlantic/Bermuda: April 17 2007, 16:56:02 - Current meeting: Community Council
<sacater> lucky, its 9pm here
<atoponce> MikeB-: let me know when you hear something
<MikeB-> 2:00 PM here, woot
<atoponce> Seveas: you too. :)
<juliux> sacater, be patient we have to wait for the cc ;)
<etank> Seveas: should a LoCo team that is up for approval have some text prepared to paste about the team?
<sacater> juliux: :O
<Seveas> etank, preferably
<MikeB-> atoponce: you going to the release party Saturday
<atoponce> MikeB-: wouldn't miss it. you?
<Seveas> etank, but the wikipage is more important :)
<Seveas> Ekushey, please document your ubuntu contrbutions properly before applying for membership. Currently your wikipage has *no* information at all
<MikeB-> atoponce: yes, I'm planning to come for a couple of hours
<atoponce> cool
<Seveas> hi elmo
<MikeB-> atoponce: still waiting for my passport, on hold for an hour now
<Ekushey> Seveas, okay
<atoponce> MikeB-: are you out of the country?
<juliux> hi elmo
<Seveas> Ekushey, if you think you can document it all in an hour, please do so. Otherwise consider applying next time and I'll help you with the wikipage if you want
<MikeB-> atoponce: getting passport for Seville in a couple of week
<atoponce> MikeB-: ahh. for uds?
* atoponce is jealous
<PriceChild> MikeB-, cutting it close :)
* atoponce will be at ubuntu live, though
<MikeB-> atoponce: you and Christer should ask for sponsorship, especially for the USA loco work
<xblackfire> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 17 2007, 20:01:27 - Current meeting: Community Council
<elmo> hi seveas, juliux
<atoponce> MikeB-: how do i go about that? should i pm you after the meet for details?
<MikeB-> atoponce: send me a e-mail
<atoponce> MikeB-: will do
<atoponce> PriceChild: ?
<PriceChild> atoponce, that gives a link with details doesn't it?
* atoponce looks
<Seveas> elmo, do you know if sabdfl is around-ish?
<sacater> has the meeting started, my ubuntu-server synced clock says yes
<atoponce> Tue Apr 17 20:05:56 UTC 2007
<Seveas> sacater, the CC is a bit out of sync
<sacater> ok
<mako> alrihgt
* mako is here
<sacater> i will wait :P
<MikeB-> hey mako
<Nafallo> morning mako :-)
<jenda> MikeB-: any particular tips as to how to apply for sponsorship?
<Seveas> mako, excellent, now we only need our sabdfl and some guacamole, and we have a par-tay
<jenda> (evenin')
<Nafallo> haha
<mako> i am going to need to disappear in 80 minutes at least temporarily
<mako> i need to go mail my taxes before the post office closes :)
<Seveas> mako, taxes, schmaxes ;)
<sacater> :o
<Seveas> how long will you be gone approximately?
<mc44> mako: isnt the deadline the 15th in the US? :)
<yeager> mail the taxes? not sending them digitally signed? :)
<ompaul> Seveas, its schmaxes they give you if you don't give them taxes
<mako> yeager: i'm actually filing an extension :)
<gnomefreak> mc44: 15th was on a sunday so they give you a couple of days
<gnomefreak> i think deadline is tonight
* OgMaciel just did his taxes last night
<atoponce> jenda: i'm going to email him. i'll cc: you on the message
<MikeB-> mc44: 15th was SUnday, and 16th was a holiday in District of Columbia
<jenda> atoponce: email sabdfl?
<LaserJock> I managed to get mine sent last week
<atoponce> jenda: MikeB-
<jenda> ah
<jenda> :)
<elmo> Seveas: I SMSed him
<jenda> gah, I'm probably going to crash - can't imagine staying up for the entire meeting.
<elmo> (before the meeting started)
<sabdfl> evening all
<gnomefreak> evening sabdfl
<MikeB-> evening Mark
<Seveas> hi sabdfl
<juliux> evening sabdfl
<Seveas> let's get started!
<kkubasik> evening
<Seveas> sabdfl, you're first on the agenda with the Trademark policy - so if you're ready: go for it!
<Devaux> Hi Mr. Shuttleworth
<sabdfl> thanks seveas
<somerville32> sabdfl, \o_
<sabdfl> we are getting a much greater volume of requests regarding the trademarks
<sabdfl> Seveas: coudl you paste a url for folks to review the proposed policy?
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftTrademarkPolicy2007
<sabdfl> canonical owns the trademarks, and we want a policy that enhances their value to canonical as well as the community
<sabdfl> being mindful of the firefox debate, we've put these guidelines together
<sabdfl> i'm very interested in feedback from the CC and from folks at this meeting
<sabdfl>  /end
<kkubasik> I think its generous
<kkubasik> surprisingly so, not to say I think everyone is mean
<Seveas> sabdfl, I like the 'Remix' part of it
<kkubasik> but its big risk to let anyone use the name
* ScottK has read it and thinks it does a good job of balancing Canonical's commercial interests and those of the larger community.  It is generous to the community, but I think that's reasonable given the community's value to Ubuntu.
<mc44> it has very good balance :)
<sabdfl> thanks Seveas, we're trying to encourage people to do fun and useful things with ubuntu
<atoponce> i'm looking forward to whatever is decided, as i plan on using them as decals on my car, as i'm sure sabdfl saw in my email
<Seveas> sabdfl, but I have a tricky question for you already: does the name ubotu (our beloved irc bot) become a problematic name?
<juliux> sabdfl, what happens if a locoteam produce with a local bookshop some dvds? did they have to ask or not?
<sabdfl> and give them the freedom to call it "ubuntu" if it preserves the spirit of the project
* gnomefreak agrees with ScottK 
<mc44> Seveas: its non commercial isnt it? :p
<Seveas> mc44, read the policy, there's more to it than noncommercial
<mc44> Seveas: I know, I was just checking that it was :)
<sabdfl> Seveas: i think the association is subtle enough that you have free reign there :-)
<mako> kkubasik: we *want* people to use the name because we want to them to talk about ubuntu, build communities around ubuntu, do stuff that helps makes ubuntu a recognizable brand
<ompaul> sabdfl, I think I see an error wrt intent, how do you want that addressed as a pm or here?
<sabdfl> juliux: if the DVD's are the same ISO, then no need to ask
<kkubasik> oh no, I love that component, and I'm glad the decision was made to be this open about it
<juliux> sabdfl, ok also if the bookshop also sell the dvd?
<sabdfl> if they are modified, but the loco team still wants to call it "ubuntu" then it depends
<sabdfl> if the only modification is package selection / deselection, then i don't think they need to ask
<sabdfl> if they are modifying packages, then they do
<kkubasik> its just I felt that mozilla was completely in the right, and ubuntu would have been too
<kkubasik> had it come to that
<sabdfl> ompaul: here
<MikeB-> juliux: in the past with other distro, charging for the cost of media is allow, but no more
<juliux> MikeB-, that is why i am asking;)
<sabdfl> we don't mind if people print ubuntu cd's or dvd's and charge whatever they like for them
<juliux> sabdfl, sounds good and fair
<ompaul> sabdfl, so, the section that says: Use in combination with any product or service which is presented as being Certified or Official or formally associated with us or our products or services. may actually want to state, "unless authorised by the trademark holder" however this could also be placed in the phrasing of the introduction to that section
<jenda> sabdfl, juliux - it sounds Free ;)
<juliux> jenda, you are right
<sabdfl> ompaul: yes, it does seem odd to rule out authorised use in that case
<Nafallo> looks pretty good. seems I might want to look up some Swedish pages and companys though.
<ompaul> sabdfl, while I concur that the next section deals with commerical, it may be the case that it should be placed above prohibitions
<mako> in general, i'm happy with the current draft
<ompaul> sabdfl, then it "feels" better
<xblackfire> hi i'm from ubuntu-ni and we plan a distro based on ubuntu, the modification is on package selection and some artwork additional,  with this policy we must use Remix on the name of the distro ?
<mako> in general, i think people misunderstand tradmark a little bit
<sabdfl> xblackfire: if you want to use "Ubuntu", then you'll need "Remix"
<sabdfl> so it's clear to people
<mako> i think they think it covers using the name in any situation, when in reality, it should only cover using the name to imply endorsement
<mako> so if someone wanted to write an article about how they feel ubuntu sucks, that isn't a trademark issue
<mc44> mako: I had a small point about that relating to the poilicy
* sabdfl is a fan of sucksdomains
<mako> exactly
<mc44> mako: it would be nice if the forbidden section acknowledges that fact
<mako> right..
<mc44> because currently it covers all domain names
<sabdfl> ompaul: i'll raise the question of authorised use, and the sequence of the sections
<mako> it only becomes a problem when the websites is designed to look like UBUNTU itself is talking about how it sucks
<mattva01> What about a distro called foobuntu(hypothetical), would we have to get special permission for that?
<sabdfl> mako: can you propose some language that makes that clear?
<mc44> mako: right but in the policy it says any commercial use or disparging use. is it possible to put something like "exccept where allowed by fair use"
<mako> sabdfl: yeah, right now?
<mako> i might actually have some around
<xblackfire> we thinking in use NicaUbuntu, but with the new policy that name, we need ask permission to Ubuntu
<sabdfl> mattva01: yes, that would fall into this framework
<micahcowan> mako, isn't that (potentially) parody (protected)?
<sabdfl> mako: or by mail to CC / me
<sabdfl>  / jane
* micahcowan is lurker
<LaserJock> sabdfl: will this become retroactive? i.e. will existing derivatives, etc. be asked to fall in line with this policy?
<sabdfl> we should certainly protect parody explicitly, because it is not protected in all jurisdictions
<sabdfl> LaserJock: yes
<mc44> sabdfl: thank you!
<micahcowan> I was wondering about that...
<sabdfl> though where there are issues, we would take time to resolve them graciously
* mc44 goes to register ubuntusucks.com
<mc44> damn too late
<Seveas> mc44, guess where it redirects to :p
* sabdfl waits for the penny to drop
<sabdfl> ;-)
<mc44> sabdfl: I have hyphens in my arsenal :p
<sabdfl> lay on macduff
<MikeB-> mako: could a website that looks like Ubuntu but but used to spread FUD be protect by parody rights
<|{evin> ubuntusux.com is available.
<sabdfl> i don't mind a sucks domain or three
<ompaul> sabdfl, should I take it that the (TM) question policy will get a second airing or it this is its big day out?
<Nafallo> hmm
<sabdfl> make good use of it!
<sabdfl> we should redirect it to bugs.lp.net/ubuntu
<mc44> haha
<LaserJock> lol
<|{evin> heh, nice
<Nafallo> isonaming has to have "remix" in the name to? :-)
<imbrandon> sabdfl, +1 , heh
<Seveas> could we please focus on the topic at hand, we have quite a long agenda
<sabdfl> ok, so salient comments so far:
<sabdfl>  - ompaul re authorised use for official entities, like "official ubuntu magazine" etc
<sabdfl>  - mako re the difference between commentary / fair use and endorsement
<_MMA_> Hi guys. I have had several emails back and forth with Mark and Jane about Canonical officially protecting "Ubuntu Studio" Jane said she would start the process. Is there anything more we should do? As a project? Also we wanted to Copyright packages we've done as Ubuntu Studio but there seems to be issue with that currently.
<sabdfl> jane came back to me and said we did not need to protect it, as the existing Ubuntu trademark covers it
<mako> sabdfl: ok..
<mako> The Ubuntu trademarks are designed to cover use of a mark to imply origin or endorsement by the project. When a user downloads something called Ubuntu, they should know it comes from the Ubuntu project. This helps Ubuntu build a reputation that will not be damaged by confusion around what is, and isn't, Ubuntu.
<mako> Using the trademarks in ways that do unequivacoable do not imply endorsement or provide any room for improvement is always permissable.  Anyone is free to write articles, create websites, about, or talk about Ubuntu -- as long as it's clear to everyone -- including people completely unfamiliar with Ubuntu -- that they are simply talking *about* Ubuntu and in no way *for* Ubuntu.
<mako> or something to that effect
<sabdfl> _MMA_: nobody else can call their stuff "Ubuntu Studio", since we've already ack'd your use of it
<mako> i'm afraid that people might get the wrong idea, especially from the "forbidden" section
<Seveas> mako, sounds sane to me
<mako> which is essentially a "don't even ask" section
<kkubasik> is ubuntu studio a completely communuty driven project with no offical backing?
<sabdfl> we have a don't-even-ask section, i could add it there
<_MMA_> sabdfl: Ok. So currently we do "Copyright Canonical On the website/forum. Is that correct?
<mako> sabdfl: yeah, i was wondering if we think it would be better at the top or hte don't even ask
<mako> is it ok to edit this?
<ompaul> sabdfl, there is one thing missing, a "if we feel you did us wrong section we reserve the right to request a takedown"
<mako> or should i prose it to the cc and jane?
<sabdfl> _MMA_: yes
<_MMA_> k
<mako> ompaul: that's unnecessary IMHO
<mako> ompaul: we don't need to wave around sticks here
<sabdfl> mako: let me make an edit, then i'll past the diff url
<micahcowan> Should there be explicit mention of use of the mark in completely unrelated contexts (a l that one advertisement that hit digg recently)? (And, is it okay for me to be interjecting like this?)
<juliux> i read the trademarkpolicy know a second time, but there is something not clear for me, if we as a locoteam make shirts like http://ubuntu.juliux.de/shirt/polo.jpg did we have to add a tradmark on the shirt?
<mako> juliux: i think you'd just be asked to send an email
<MikeB-> sabdfl: does Canonical own "buntu" trademark or "UBUNTU, KUBUNTU, EDUBUNTU, and XUBUNTU"
<juliux> mako, i will write an mail because this is more difficult situation
<juliux> mako,
<mako> juliux: send it to the CC
<somerville32> Speaking of Xubuntu, Xubuntu is almost never mentioned on trademark notices (such as on the website  and certain press releases).
<sabdfl> MikeB-: i believe "buntu" is covered, globally
<juliux> i am very happy to have this trademark policy
<somerville32> I agree. Long overdue.
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftTrademarkPolicy2007?action=diff
<sabdfl> i'll pass that back to Canonical, along with ompaul's comments
<sabdfl> thanks all for your comments
<jenda> I might have one more
<ompaul> yw
<jenda> "there is no commercial intent behind the use"
<jenda> What type of behaviour violates that particular rule (considering it's in the 'community advocacy' section?)
<jenda> Does that mean, for example, taht people can't make say, mugs or t-shirts with the Ubuntu logo with one of the goals being raising funds?
<sabdfl> they can, they just need a trademark license
<illovae> hello
<imbrandon> i would have hoped ad's on the forums ( for non-logged in users ) on the forums would be considered commercial ( that havent come down yet btw ) ...
<sabdfl> i see no reason why we wouldn't let a loco team do that
<sabdfl> however, we would have an issue with a company doing that, on an industrial scale
<Nafallo> isn't that already Community Advocacy?
<Seveas> I'd say so
<jenda> sabdfl: how about an individual doing it (partly) for personal gain?
<jenda> I've been encouraging people to do that till now
<sabdfl> jenda: best to bounce that past trademarks@
<jenda> good
<mako> awesome
<sabdfl> imbrandon: good point
<sabdfl> ok, thanks all!
<sabdfl> what's up next, seveas?
<jenda> so, it's basically _not_allowed_, but might be allowed on individual cases by community members...
<Seveas> somerville32,
<MikeB-> imbrandon: that is something that needs to be looked at
<jenda> (err, _to_ community members)
<Seveas> he has somthing to say about CC voting
<Seveas> somerville32, you still with us?
<somerville32> Seveas, Yup, sorry, was just eatting some pizza <g>
<Seveas> heh
<Seveas> so, what's up with 'CC Nominee Confirmation Vote 2007'?
<somerville32> I've spoken with sabdfl regarding the CC Nominee Confirmation Vote on March 30th
<Seveas> excellent, how's that coming along?
<somerville32> After speaking with salgado and sabdfl, it appears, based off of sabdfl's description of the desired voting model, that the launchpad infrastructure required to conduct the vote is already implemented and that a vote can occur.
<sabdfl> well, i suck, for one
<sabdfl> i've been slow to get this done, my apologies!
<Seveas> sabdfl, expect some slapping at UDS ;)
<sabdfl> originally i wanted to have a richer voting system, with a race between n people for n-m seats
<sabdfl> but instead, we will just have n confirmation votes
<gnomefreak> Seveas mako sabdfl i have to run for a while. I would like to say that apokryphos is a great asset to the ubuntu community and i think he is a great canidate for membership. Thank you :)
<sabdfl> thanks gnomefreak
<ajmitch> Seveas: I'm sure we can find something to do at UDS..
<Seveas> gnomefreak, noted
<MikeB-> sabdfl: no problems
<gnomefreak> ty and yw
<Seveas> sabdfl, so per candidate we can say +1/0/-1 ?
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> your membership in action!
* apokryphos slips $5 to gnomefreak 8)
<mc44> sabdfl: is there a list of candidates yet?
<gnomefreak> ;)
<kkubasik> ;)
* somerville32 nods.
<sabdfl> mc44: yes
<LaserJock> apokryphos: only $5? memberships are coming cheap these days ;-)
<sabdfl>    y daniel holbach
<sabdfl>    y matthew east
<sabdfl>    y mike basinger
<sabdfl>    y corey burger
<sabdfl>    y jerome gotangco
<sabdfl> iirc
<sabdfl> i will be happy to see us span more timezones
<Nafallo> sabdfl: no sabdfl? :-)
<Seveas> sabdfl, being admin for the team I should be able to create the votes. Want me to go ahead with that?
<Seveas> Nafallo, sabdfl/elmo/mako will stay on board :)
<sabdfl> Seveas: yeah!
<Nafallo> *puuh*
* somerville32 cheers!
<mc44> sabdfl: no jono?
<mako> mc44: not this time
<apokryphos> LaserJock: heh, yup :)
<mc44> okkk
<sabdfl> mc44: jono's just a newbie round here!
<sabdfl> ;-)
<mc44> :)
<imbrandon> lol
<Nafallo> hehe
<sabdfl> good candidate for a future round
<Seveas> sabdfl, ok, voting will commence soon then if I get it right -- last time I tried to set up a vote it went bizarrely wrong :)
<sabdfl> he's doing omazing work
<somerville32> Seveas, The staging server is available to test
<sabdfl> Seveas: ok, so it's 5 separate votes, each with yes/no options
<Seveas> somerville32, excellent idea
<OgMaciel> Seveas: was this list created by the CC or a poll?
<Seveas> sabdfl, no 'blank vote'?
<sabdfl> when's a good starting date?
<somerville32> sabdfl, How long will the vote be open?
<Seveas> OgMaciel, by sabdfl
<Seveas> sabdfl, feisty release?
<mc44> Seveas: for how many seats? one?
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: I'd like to be considered
<sabdfl> Seveas: i think a blank vote only makes sense in cases where you are choosing between n candidates, and want a "none of the above" vote. in this case, the "no" vote is the blank one in each case
<Seveas> sabdfl, I'd say: feisty release until the start or end of uds
<OgMaciel> obvisouly I realize it is sudden but I didn't know about it until now
<elmo> Seveas: (sabdfl in consultation with the CC to be fair/pedantic)
<sabdfl> Seveas: lets make it from monday, for 2 weeks?
<Seveas> sabdfl, sounds good
<sabdfl> will only just catch the first day of UDS
<mc44> sabdfl: sorry, i may have missed it, but this is for how many open seats - just the one?
<sabdfl> no, all 5 are up for consideration
<sabdfl> if a majority of voters in each case say "aye", they all get on
<micahcowan> n=m :)
<Nafallo> Seveas: middle. so people can celebrate :-)
<sabdfl> no, m=0 ;-)
* ajmitch imagines that plenty of people will just say yes to all
<sabdfl> Seveas: if we make it from Monday, for 15 days, then it gives us more time at UDS
* kkubasik is one of those
<mc44> ajmitch: should be easier getting a quorum then :p
<sabdfl> this is the ubuntu members chance to veto, basically
<micahcowan> m  [0,n]  ?
<juliux> perhaps we can send a reminder to everybody, so he know about the vote
<Seveas> juliux, of course
<sabdfl> in future, we may have more complex races, where we have more candidates than seats
<mako> sabdfl: it's fine to not catch UDS, maybe better :)
<ajmitch> sabdfl: was it the TB that you wanted 3 of 5?
<mc44> sabdfl: and campaign finance reform! ;)
<sabdfl> ajmitch: i think it would be good in any race
<sabdfl> the only issue is, platforms and competition don't suit everyone, and i don't want always to end up with the most vocal candidates, necessarily
<sabdfl> so it's nice to be able to nominate someone, who just has to pass a general community up/down
<sabdfl> we want the best overall mix of perspectives and skills on both bodies
<sabdfl> and same on Motu Council and Forums Council too...
<highvoltage> good evening Ubunteros
<ajmitch> morning highvoltage
<Seveas> sabdfl, don't forget the IRC council :)
<juliux> good evening highvoltage
<sabdfl> that august body, too :-)
<mako> fine, all of the councils :)
<sabdfl> ok, thanks for setting things up seveas
<sabdfl> next?
* somerville32 coughs.
<Seveas> ok, let's move on!
<Seveas> locoteams, etank
<etank> Hi everyone. The Kentucky Team was started on 1/12/07. We started with 3 members and have since grown to 54 (about 20 of which are active on a regular basis). We are having an Install Fest and Release Party this weekend. We have started a partnership with the UKLUG and LPLUG in the Lexington area. We are also in the process of starting a charity project. We are also working on ways to offer local support to new / existing users.
<MikeB-> somerville32: many thanks also:)
<etank> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KentuckyTeam/ApprovalApplication
<Seveas> somerville32, THANKS!
<sabdfl> hi etank
<etank> hi sabdfl
<etank> we have some team members here to cheer us on and one of which is also on for membership today
<atoponce> ahh. the kentucky team... solid loco, impressive progress, and great strength. etank and bkingx have done fabulous work getting this team up and running
<etank> thanks atoponce
<sabdfl> ubuntu-ky forums look pretty active too - is the community more mailing list or forums oriented?
<bkingx> ty atoponce
<etank> forums and irc
<MikeB-> etank: the team is doing great work on the forums
* mako checks out the forums
<etank> we use the mailing list mainly for meeting reminders
<atoponce> the us teams project needs more people like etank and bkingx getting their loco teams up and running.
<imbrandon> are we doing memberships today? sorry but I have to run soon ( ~5 minutes ) and just wanted to place my +1 for sacater's ubuntu membership , he will make a good addition to the community and is workin twords MOTUship someday ( not yet ), he has been active ~3 months iirc on irc and seems to be a solid contributior almost daily, anyhow if someone could bring up my +1 when the time is correct please.
<sabdfl> etank: what sort of reaction have you had from libraries?
<Seveas> imbrandon, thanks
<etank> the team hopes to one day be in a position to mentor other teams the way that Utah and Ohio have helped us
<sacater> imbrandon: thanks :D
<somerville32> I have to run too. +1 for apokryphos and ScottK for membership. :) ttyl  everyone
<etank> we have not hit the libraries yet
<sabdfl> thanks imbrandon
<etank> we have started talking to schools though
<sacater> welp: wanna add your +1 for me?
<Seveas> sacater, not now
<etank> trying to get them to let us set up half of the labs with Ubuntu
<sabdfl> ok. libraries are sometimes concerned about responsibility for software installed by people who got it from them
<sacater> welp: not now ;P
<sabdfl> this all looks tight and well-run to me
<sabdfl> who are the ringleaders?
<etank> thank you
<etank> binkx, venemous and myself
<bkingx> Thank for the library hint, sabdfl !
<etank> we are the original 3 that got it started
<mako> yeah, i tlooks like you're doing lots of great works
<sabdfl> ok, i'm +1 on this one
<sabdfl> great work so far
<etank> i mean bkingx
<elmo> +1
<mako> yes, definitely a +1 from me as well
<mako> keep up the good work
<Seveas> congratz!
<etank> thank you
<bkingx> Thank you!!
<atoponce> etank: bkingx: congrats
<Nafallo> yay!
<bkingx> Much work to be done!
<etank> awesome!!
<highvoltage> etank, bkingx: congrats and welcome :)
<MikeB-> etank: congrats team Kentucky, but Indiana is still better at basketball:-)
<Seveas> sacater will now jump the queue, he will have to go soon
<ScatterBrain> Great work etank bkingx !
<Seveas> sacater, please paste your intro
<sacater> ok
<sacater> ==Very Short Description about me==
<sacater> Hi, I am Sam Cater, otherwise known as sacater or sacatermeister. I am 14 years old and live in Ipswich, Suffolk, GB. I have signed the Code of Conduct with gpg and I am an ubuntero
<sacater> I was first introduced to Ubuntu/Linux by welp (Peter Weller), a gentoo developer.
<sacater> I have been helping in the community properly for about 4 months.
<sacater> I use nothing but ubuntu
* welp waves
<sacater> I have contributed to ubuntu in a few different ways. I spend all my spare time in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-motu. Both helping out and learning whenever and wherever I can. I even got +u status on freenode.net, as I am eager to help in so many different aspects of Ubuntu. I always follow the Code of Conduct when I help others.
<sacater> A good chunk of my work is answering questions in launchpad, I always try to answer questions as fully as possible, its good to see a star next to your answer :P
<sacater> I also try and do my bit in Bug triaging and reporting.
<sacater> welp is vouching me
* sacater waves back
<ajmitch> very short? :)
<sacater> :P
<micahcowan> 10 lines? :)
<sacater> maybe...
<sacater> :D
<ompaul> wc crashed
<welp> sacater: cat <intofilename> | wc -l
<welp> ;)
<micahcowan> int overflow? :D
<Nafallo> +u?
<sacater> welp: later
<welp> hahaha
<sacater> Nafallo: yes
<Seveas> ompaul, grab a mop and bucket then, and probably a gasmask
<Nafallo> sacater: what's that? :-)
<sacater> Nafallo: means rather than standard 21 freenode channel limit, i get 125
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<sacater> im on 53 i think
<sacater> Seveas: what next?
<Seveas> sacater, wait.
<sacater> :o
<highvoltage> I'm quite jealous. I wish I could use Ubuntu when I was 14!
<sacater> okies
<sacater> highvoltage: :S
<Seveas> the CC members are now reading your wikipage and investigating you
<sacater> :o
<sacater> egads!
<sacater> :P
<Seveas> highvoltage, same here
<Seveas> at the age of 14 I used dos 3.21
<elmo> sacater: you have SATs?
<sacater> oh yes
<sacater> 3 weeks time
<elmo> they actually call them that in the UK now?
<sacater> my contributions may get dotted over that time due to revision
<sacater> elmo: yes
<elmo> god, I feel so old
<SWAT> elmo, same here
<sacater> ill contribute all i can though!
<PriceChild> sacater, sats don't mean anything ;)
<juliux> highvoltage,  i get my first linux with 16:(
<sacater> PriceChild: :o
<sacater> PriceChild: they determine gcse ability
<PriceChild> Just don't tell your teachers I told you ;)
<welp> sacater: it's true... SATs really do not mean anything
<welp> s/anything/much
<welp> ;)
<sacater> i think we have strayed off topic....
<sacater> :P
<sabdfl> sacater: excellent work in the Ubuntu Q&A secion
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/~sacater
<sacater> sabdfl: thank you, thank you very much...
<sacater> :D
<mako> is there anyone here to vouch for you?
<sacater> oh yes
<sacater> WELP!
<sacater> come hither
<SWAT> sacater, you're looking very active (keep it up)
<sacater> LaserJock:
<sacater> come hither also :P
<welp> yes?
<sacater> imbrandon: if you are still here...
<ompaul> mako, I have seen him being helpful in #ubuntu on a regular basis
<sabdfl> imbrandon spoke earlier on sacater's behalf
<welp> mako: what am i supposed to say? ;)
<sacater> welp: that, as a gentoo dev, you think i am good
* ajmitch has seen him in #ubuntu-motu on a regular basis also :)
<sacater> welp: simple
<Seveas> ...just wanted to place my +1 for sacater's ubuntu membership , he will make a good addition to the community and is workin twords MOTUship someday ( not yet ), he has been active ~3 months iirc on irc and seems to be a solid contributior almost daily, anyhow if someone could bring up my +1 when the time is correct please....
<sacater> ajmitch: :D
<Seveas> (imbrandon)
<welp> i'm not a ubuntu member, but i am a gentoo developer, as such i feel i may as well try an vouch for him
<welp> sacater's a hardworking 'lil bugger
<sabdfl> sacater: are you studying software engineering?
<welp> willing to learn
<sacater> thanks :D
<sacater> sabdfl: im 14
<welp> sabdfl: he's 14...
<mako> sacater: so i'm only seeing about month of activity in actiivty.. which is a bit less time (though not less activyt) than we ask from most people
<welp> sabdfl: ask him that in ~4 years time ;)
<OgMaciel> ;)
<sabdfl> don't they teach computer science at school here?
<Nafallo> LaserJock: shouldn't you say something? :-)
<kkubasik> yeah they do ;)
<mako> but as Seveas says, it sounds like you've been more active on IRC for a longer period :)
<Seveas> mako, that wasn't me
<Seveas> I quoted imbrandon
* kkubasik is a comp sci 
<sacater> mako: i have been
<sacater> where the heck has LaserJock got to
<sacater> sigh
<mako> Seveas: right, ok
<elmo> sabdfl: not in schools, not as an exam-ed course no
<LaserJock> oh sorry
<LaserJock> was doing an experiment
<sacater> :o
<elmo> of course, I didn't know we had SATs, so what do I know
<welp> LaserJock: did you blow anything up? ^_-
<LaserJock> welp: not today, just some molecules
<sabdfl> welp: thanks for visiting, feel welcome to hang out here any time, we should share ideas with gentoo more often
<sacater> LaserJock: make with the vouching..
<mc44> elmo: SATs are used for school league tables and nothing else :)
<sacater> sabdfl: that was one of my plans on my wiki page if you saw
<LaserJock> well, I don't have a ton to say about sacater. He's been in #ubuntu-motu for a while and I sponsored his upload
<welp> sacater: where's your wiki page?
<Seveas> welp, wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
<sacater> welp: wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
<sacater> :o
<LaserJock> I hope to see him do more and eventually become a MOTU some day
<sacater> Seveas: great minds think alike :P
<Seveas> sacater, lousy minds do the same
<LaserJock> seems like he's on the path there
<sacater> LaserJock: thank you :D
<ompaul> ehh wrt his help Feb 03 21:52:41 <sacater>  my first record of him helping
<Seveas> sacater clearly doesn't lack enthousiasm
* ajmitch has also seen sacater fairly active on bug work
<sacater> :D
<ajmitch> at least judging from the amount of bug mail from him in my mailbox
<sacater> er hem!
<sacater> :P
<sacater> ajmitch: how much mail
<sacater> ajmitch: i havnt done that much with bugs lately
<sacater> more answers
<ajmitch> ~100 or so emails on ubuntu-bugs
<Seveas> sacater, answers is good
<Seveas> we need more people in the Q&A section
<ajmitch> a number of which have had debdiffs or bug triaging
<ajmitch> so I'd support him as a member
<sacater> whoot!
<welp> what's bug triaging?
<sacater> welp: bug fixing, reporting etc
<ajmitch> Seveas: quite right, enthusiasm is not lacking
<welp> it's probably got some equivilant in gentoo...
<welp> oh, 'k.
<Seveas> welp, assigning to the correct product, setting priorities, making sure all needed info is there, talking to reporters
<Seveas> checking duplicates
<apokryphos> yes, quite a bit of bug triaging on gentoo too 8)
<sabdfl> ok, i would like to see a slightly longer participation
<welp> sounds like gentoo's bug wrangling ;)
<ajmitch> Seveas: if I'm not here when it comes to ScottK, I'll throw in my support for him - he's been doing some great work with universe lately
<Seveas> ajmitch, noted, thanks
<sabdfl> sacater: are  you motivated to stay part of the community? even if we ask you to come back in two months?
<sacater> oh hell yes
<sacater> ubuntu pwns
<sacater> :D
<highvoltage> heh.
<sabdfl> ok. elmo, mako?
<mako> sabdfl: you beat me to it
<mako> soudns wonderful
<Seveas> sacater, keep up the good work!
<sacater> :D
<mako> lets move on quickly
<Seveas> apokryphos, you're up
<Seveas> <gnomefreak> Seveas mako sabdfl i have to run for a while. I would like to say that apokryphos is a great asset to the ubuntu community and i think he is a great canidate for membership. Thank you :)
<apokryphos> thanks
<apokryphos> Hi, I'm Francis Giannaros. Wikipage: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrancisGiannaros ; Launchpad: http://beta.launchpad.net/~apokryphos
<apokryphos> I've been using Kubuntu since the Warty days, got involved on IRC/Wiki in late Warty and became an IRC operator around Hoary times (I think). The vast majority of my Ubuntu contributions now are channelled through IRC.
<mako> i need to leave in 10 minutes.. will be back in half a hour or so
<apokryphos> I'm an operator in most of the major Ubuntu channels, and contact for -uk and -gr; my jobs these days include helping out users, ensuring a smooth running in the channels, and discovering new types of colourful language when trying to deal with ban appeals in -ops :)
<elmo> (fine by me)
<highvoltage> sacater: may I slip in that we need some help at edubuntu too? ;)
<apokryphos> I'm also [more]  involved with the openSUSE project
<bddebian> highvoltage: :-)
<Seveas> and I'd like to add an enormous cheer to that. apokryphos is LONG overdue for membership, he's been helping in IRC land for ages
<sacater> highvoltage: im always in #edubuntu nowadays, shout if you need me
<highvoltage> sacater: great!
<welp> whoa, whs there some kind of decision made about sacater? if there was, i seem to have missed it.
<mako> i've certainly seen apokryphos around for a long time
<apokryphos> hm, vouching.. I guess any IRC operators in here may help :). ompaul, PriceChild, as well, from a quick glance
<imbrandon> welp, for him to come back in 2 months infront of the CC
<ompaul> Seveas, +1
<sabdfl> welp: we asked him to keep at it, and return in two months
<welp> 'k.
* PriceChild cheers for apokryphos lots and lots
<apokryphos> and imbrandon 8)
<sabdfl> apokryphos: you've been an IRC op since Hoary?
<imbrandon> re
<mc44> apokryphos is well overdue for dual citizenship :)
<apokryphos> sabdfl: I think so. Seveas, do you know?
<sabdfl> be nice to have a photo at https://beta.launchpad.net/~apokryphos for new members
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+mugshots
<Seveas> sabdfl, it may even be before that
<mako> i think apokryphos has helped me out a few times when i had op related issues or questions :)
<mako> anyone else have testimonials?
<imbrandon> also i might note apokryphos is a great help with kde* too :)
<sabdfl> ok, then +1 from me on the back of a longstanding contribution to the community
<Seveas> sabdfl, but I don't keep logs for that long (they're over 100meg/month)
* ajmitch would probably have to find a photo to put up
<apokryphos> sabdfl: I'll add one soon, sure.
* bddebian won't put one up, wouldn't want to scare anyone
<Seveas> sabdfl, +mugshots !
<Seveas> omg :)
<PriceChild> haha love that page
<Seveas> yeah
<ompaul> mako, he is (A) sane (B) useful (C) good technically
<sabdfl> my latest small addition to lp.net :-)
<ompaul> mako, and he has been useful longer
<ompaul> than I was
<sabdfl> elmo? mako?
<Seveas> yikes... I'm killing my firefox... searched for apokryphos in the bantracker and the list is quite long :)
<mako> oh i didn't see you'd voted
<apokryphos> heh
<mako> yes, it's a +1 from me as well, long time work like this should be recognized :)
<mako> apokryphos: glad you've stuck around :)
<highvoltage> ha! some ubuntu members have big heads ;)
<Seveas> (btw: I'll be doing the launchpad work after the meeting)
<elmo> +1
<apokryphos> highvoltage: it's from the ego polishing at such events; /me's head is getting gradually larger 8)
<Seveas> apokryphos, congratulations!
<Seveas> Ekushey, you're up
<mako> one more, quickly, and then i need to run although i'll probably catch the end of hte meeting
<apokryphos> thanks guys
<atoponce> apokryphos: congrats!
<highvoltage> apokryphos: :)
<emonkey> apokryphos, congrats
<mindspin> congrats apokryphos
<Ekushey> Hello Seveas
<ranf> congrats
<Ekushey> My name is Russell, I'm from Bangladesh. I've been doing FOSS and Linux advocacy in my country for the last 5 years old so, and co-founded a LUG.
<Ekushey> #
<Ekushey> I'm the team leader and contact person for this team.
<Ekushey> #
<Ekushey> I maintain [WWW]  ubuntu-bd.org. I translate Ubuntu related news that goes on in this site.
<sabdfl> hey Ekushey, welcome
<mako> also, someone should chastise all the people who signed up on the wiki today.. i thought we were discouraging this somehow :)
<sabdfl> wiki and lp url's?
<Ekushey> my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Russell
<Seveas> mako, in the future I'll put big 'DO NOT DIT
<Seveas> mako, in the future I'll put big 'DO NOT EDIT' notices 4 days before
<Ekushey> LP is at https://launchpad.net/~russelljohn
<micahcowan> mako, in my defense, jono gave his "go ahead" early this morning :)
<Ekushey> sorry i'm lagging a bit
<ompaul> mako, can't it be locked?
<Seveas> some of the last-minute people are ill-prepared, although we've been fixing it for some
<micahcowan> or maybe it was last night.
<Seveas> micahcowan, jono is not on the CC and hasn't been to many of its meetings :)
<micahcowan> Seveas, I know; but mako asked me to pass it by him to see what he thought.
<mako> ompaul: it's not that big a deal, just a push to get people to think ahead :)
* mako nods to Seveas, micahcowan
<ompaul> mako, they are too busy fixing bugs :)
<Ekushey> Sevaeas, i'm sweating
<micahcowan> Sorry Ekushey, didn't mean to steal from your time :(
<Seveas> Ekushey, relax, they're looking over your info now
<Ekushey> Seveas, okay
<Seveas> no need to sweat, there will not be full cavity searces or other scary things
<Ekushey> :)
<bddebian> What, they don't do those anymore??
<sputnik> Hi! - I am Sputnik from the german kubuntu-community. Before I have to leave now I would like to promote candidate emonkey today who is on the list later. Emonkey has done a good job so far for the community here around and I trust his actvities.
<mako> Ekushey: anyone here to advocate for you?
<emonkey> sputnik, thx
<pygi> Ekushey, it's all good, they'll just eat you and cook for dinner
<pygi> that's all there is involved with getting accepted
<pygi> read the fine prints Ekushey :p
<Ekushey> mako, it's late at night here so i couldn't bring anyone
<kkubasik> yeah, im In a similar boat
* sputnik greats the council
<Ekushey> it's 3:35 am now
<mako> Ekushey: remind me, did you present your loco to us?
<kkubasik> mine just offered to leave a message on the wiki page
* kkubasik shrugs
<kkubasik> I'll let you know how that goes
<Ekushey> mako, yes, it approved by CC
* mako nods to Ekushey
<ajmitch> kkubasik: that's ok, we know that bhale would've supported you
<mako> Ekushey: your wiki page is a little thin
<Ekushey> byt Jono didn't add it to the list cause he wanted us to grow a little more. it's almost been 6 months now.
<mako> Ekushey: since most of your work is in your loco team, it seems, it would help to have people there, because its hard for us to see what you've done within that team
<mako> ok. you should work with jono on that
<sabdfl> Ekushey: could you tell us about the local community, and your role in that?
<mako> and i'd feel better if you had some testimonials
<sabdfl> it's tricky for folks in asia, given the current CC spread
<mako> in any case, i really need to go or i'm going be in trouble :)
<sabdfl> we do need to address that
<Ekushey> sabdfl, i mostly do the advocacy part
<mako> i'll be back soon, please just keep going and i'll look over thins
<Seveas> mako, ack
<sabdfl> mako, are you ok if elmo and I +1 ekushey based on further conversation?
<sabdfl> ok, mako can +1 or defer later
<Ekushey> we're working on to popularise ubuntu between computer users, mostly students
<sabdfl> Ekushey: i'm basically happy with your membership application, because it seems to me you've been making a big contribution to free software locally for some time, and ubuntu has been your focus
<sabdfl> could you tell us about some of your work?
<sabdfl> do you work or study at NSU?
<Seveas> sabdfl, sorry to interfere, but doing this for every candidate makes these meetings very long. Candidates should come prepared or be defered if we don't want the grueling lomg meetings of yore back
<Ekushey> sabdfl, no, i studied from another university
<sabdfl> ok. ekushey, in deference to other candidates, could you get some testimonials from the other folks on your team?
<sabdfl> and come back for the next meeting
<sabdfl> sorry, i know it's very late there now
<sabdfl> i like what i see here
<Ekushey> sabdfl, yes i can do that
<sabdfl> thanks very much
<Ekushey> yw
<sacater> #im going to bed now, gnight everyone
<sabdfl> perhaps even emailing them in a single mail, cc'd to the CC and to the folks providing the testimonials
<sabdfl> night sacater
<sabdfl> next?
<Seveas> kkubasik,
<kkubasik> yello
<kkubasik> 1 se
<kkubasik> Hey, I'm Kevin Kubasik, a college student at Case Western Reserve University. I am an active member of the Gnome Foundation and focus most of my programmatic energies into Beagle Desktop Search. About 4 months ago I started to get involved with rolling packages for MOTU, I am now preparing to take over for the current Beagle packager (Brandon Hale). I currently handle most of the launchpad bug-flow, and still hack heavily upstream. I
<pochu> goodn8 sacater, and congrats :)
<Ekushey> sabdfl, alright i'll send the e-mail.
<sabdfl> thanks Ekushey
<sabdfl> kkubasik: url's?
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinKubasik
<Seveas> https://launchpad.net/~kkubasik/
<kkubasik> oo, my bad, sorry
<kkubasik> Yeah, I wasn't sure if I should link to all the stuff off of my launchpad page from the wiki, since it seemed a little silly to be like 'I have answerd lots of bugs'
<Seveas> Karma:  9772
<Seveas> nice
<kkubasik> its mostly from beagle, edgy shipped a crasher on shutdown
<kkubasik> wasn't handling SIGTERMS'
<kkubasik> so beagle hung until killed, so apport saw a crash
<kkubasik> and we got like 25 of those a day for a few weeks
<kkubasik> that's one of the big reasons I started getting involved, most of the beagle dev team was novell
<kkubasik> and we weren't really 'with' the ubuntu release cycle
<kkubasik> the upstream didn't know what ubuntu was doing etc.
<Seveas> do you think beagle will soon/ever be suitable to include by default?
<kkubasik> so I got more involved with it
<kkubasik> Seveas: most definatly I think festy +1 is very doable
<kkubasik> if not in demand
<Nafallo> gutsy :-)
<kkubasik> awesome... :)
<kkubasik> but yeah, that's why I'm starting to consider desktop-wide integration
<kkubasik> my perfect world would have evolution,f-spot and banshee (for starters) all utilizng beagle
<sabdfl> acapella rocks :-)
<kkubasik> and the code its pretty easy, its just the planning
<kkubasik> yeah!
<sabdfl> kkubasik: this is a great contribution, and over quite a period of time too
<kkubasik> thank you
<sabdfl> i'm quite happy to +1 your membership
<elmo> +1
<kkubasik> :)
<Seveas> ok, we'll let mako ack later there
<sabdfl> mako will ack later i'm sure
<Seveas> ranf, you're up
<sabdfl> go beagle!
<ranf_> I am Ralf. I live in Germany. Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ranf Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~ranf
<ranf_> Long time Linux user (I'm not sure. About 10 years).
<ranf_> Ubuntu user since Warty Warthog (4.10). My laptop runs Xubuntu.
<ranf_> I mostly do help on the german forums these days. ubuntuforums.org has gotten too crowded for me :-)
<kkubasik> thanks again!
<Nafallo> sabdfl: doglover ;-)
<zenwhen> hello
<kkubasik> and think about the awesome things beagle can do in gusty when it comes spec-time :)
<Seveas> ranf_, your documented contributions seem a little thin, are there other things you have done?
<Seveas> <sputnik> Hi! - I am Sputnik from the german kubuntu-community. Before I have to leave now I would like to promote candidate emonkey today who is on the list later. Emonkey has done a good job so far for the community here around and I trust his actvities.
<ranf_> sf.net ?
<ranf_> sf.net ok?
<Seveas> ranf_, ubuntu specific things count here :)
<ranf_> ok
<Seveas> err, wrong paste before, that was for emonkey
<micahcowan> I wondered...
<Seveas> I thought I had one for ranf_ as wel but I don't :)
<ranf_>      * reported some bugs that bit myself. And tried to help on some others.
<ranf_>      * made minor changes to some Wiki pages
<Seveas> ranf_, your karma is 70, that's nowhere near a sustained contribution on bugs
<Seveas> and you mention one wikipage
<Seveas> (is there a way in moinmoin to see a summary for an editor?)
<ranf_> my karma was (guessing here) over 240. some months ago.
<bddebian> That's probably about what mine is lately :-(
<micahcowan> bddebian = 1781
<ranf_> bddebian, what does that mean for me?
<bddebian> ranf_: Nothing, sorry, I was whining
<elmo> sabdfl's ISP just dropped him off the net
<elmo> he'll be back ASAP
<Seveas> ah ok
<Seveas> it was disturbingly quiet
<ranf_> I had probs as well
<elmo> ranf: while I appreciate your contributions so far, seveas has a point, do you think it'd be possible for you to keep plugging away and come back after a while, possibly with some cheerleaders for places where it might not be so obvious you're doing good stuff (e.g. the .de forums)?
<ranf_> Seveas, thin? how do you count? Based on number of posts in forum?
<ranf_> s/in/in a/
<bddebian> Gents, I have to leave also.  Please give a +1 for ScottK for me.  Lots of bug triaging/fixing
<Seveas> ranf_, based on the things you say you do. That includes karma, forumposts, the other things you mention
<Seveas> bddebian, noted
<sabdf1> hi, sorry folks
<Nafallo> sabdfl: wb
<sabdf1> telecomms glitch
<sabdf1> ranf still up?
<ranf_> yup
<Seveas> ranf_, I'm not saying you don't do enough, just that if you do, you could document it better so we know. I'm more than willing to help you with that
<ranf_> making noise you mean?
<Seveas> no, I mean specifying everything you do on your wikipage
<ranf_> ok
<sabdf1> ranf_: i was going to ask about bug work
<sabdf1> it looks like you have only really reported bugs that affect you
<sabdf1> it would be nice to see contributions made to bugs that affect others, too
<ranf_> How could I report others? That I can't reproduce?
<sabdf1> membership is a reflection of contribution to the community, over time
<sabdf1> well, trying to reproduce them is useful
<sabdf1> gives additional data
<Seveas> or help debugging/triaging them
<sabdf1> separates easy bugs from hard bugs etc
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage
<ranf_> My LP page has more bugs than the Wiki. I don't like duplicating info
<micahcowan> Subscribing to rejected or other situations can be a bit cumbersome, but can also be a good way to let lp document what bugs you've touched.
<Seveas> sabdf1, telco problems again or still pondering?
<sabdf1> still pondering
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> Seveas: you shouldn't have asked ;-)
<sabdf1> ranf_: are you working closely with anybody who could comment on your contribution?
* mako is back
<ranf_> to be fair no
<Seveas> mako, hi
<Nafallo> aha. l and 1 are diffrent things :-P
<Seveas> mako, elmo/sabdfl +1'ed kkubasic, currently discussing ranf_
<mako> right
* mako tries to catch up
<sabdf1> ranf_: i'd rather defer this a month or so, is that ok?
<sabdf1> i see now that most of the bugs you are subscribed to are not bugs you reported
<sabdf1> which is good
<sabdf1> means you are involved in helping to track fixes for issues generally
<sabdf1> but i'm still missing a stong sense of the scale of your contributions, and perhaps having some folks you've collaborated with give a comment or two would help
<sabdf1> s/stong/strong/
<ranf_> let's defer.
<Seveas> ok, ranf_: if you need help with the wikipage, just poke me
<mako> alright then
<ranf_> Seveas, will do.
<Seveas> ScottK, you're up next
<ScottK> I'm Scott Kitterman.  I've used Ubuntu for roughly a year - both servers and Kubuntu Desktop.  I do KDE testing and general bug triaging.  For Feisty I've been involved in MOTU.  I did new packages and merges/sync requests/bug fixes.  Wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScottKitterman and LP is https://launchpad.net/~kitterman .
<Seveas> <ajmitch> Seveas: if I'm not here when it comes to ScottK, I'll throw in my support for him - he's been doing some great work with universe lately
<Seveas> <bddebian> Gents, I have to leave also.  Please give a +1 for ScottK for me.  Lots of bug triaging/fixing
<ScottK> There was also e-mail from crimsun to the cc list.
<Nafallo> +1 for ScottK :-)
<Riddell> ooh, I support ScottK, he does lots of handy testing and bug fixing
<sabdf1> ScottK: what's the status of SPF?
<ScottK> It's currently an experimental RFC (4408)
<yeager> ScottK: SPF is always welcome. We (my company) will implement it (and DNSSEC) on 56 domains next week
<sabdf1> lots of bug karma - great work!
<ScottK> It is not perfect, but for e-mail forgery protection it's the best/most deployed thing there is
<ScottK> yeager: Cool. Ping me if you need help.
<Seveas> <somerville32> I have to run too. +1 for apokryphos and ScottK for membership. :) ttyl  everyone
<sabdf1> https://launchpad.net/~kitterman/+packages
<sabdf1> shows the coverage nicely
<sabdf1> +1 from me
<Seveas> <Nafallo> +1 for ScottK :-)
<Seveas> meh, Nafallo repeated that already :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-18
<Nafallo> hehe. I didn't repeat. I SAID it ;-)
<Nafallo> been active in -bugs and -motu. and I read feisty-changes, and I've seen him there :-)
<sabdf1> elmo, mako?
<elmo> +1
<mako> yes, definitel ya +1 form me
<sabdfl> welcome aboard, ScottK!
<ScottK> Thank you everyone.
<Nafallo> YAY!
<sabdfl> bkingx: you're up!
<bkingx> My name is Brian King. I have been advocating Ubuntu since the day I started using it in December of 2006. Before that I was a Yellowdog user. I am a co-founder and a team leader for the Kentucky Team. My Ubuntu pages are https://launchpad.net/~brianking and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/brianking.
<etank> wooo bkingx
<ranf_> nick ranf
<Seveas> mako, did you +1/0/-1 for kkubasik already?
<kkubasik> https://launchpad.net/~kkubasik
<kkubasik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinKubasik
<mako> yes, i know
<mako> i just haven't had a chance yet
<Seveas> ok, no sweat
<Seveas> was looking at other laptop for a bit and thought I missed it :)
<sabdfl> bkingx: from LP it looks like advocacy / Loco work is your primary focus?
<bkingx> Correct
<bkingx> Making bog moves in the Kentucky Team
<atoponce> i'm here cheering for bkingx++. he's helped start the kentucky team, which has been a great team. lots of loco advocacy, online in irc a lot, and really pushing the envelope in what ideas can be presenting in spreading ubuntu locally
<sabdfl> when did you become active in this regard?
<zenwhen> bkingx has my +1. hes's a sharp guy and very valuable to the ky loco team.
* etank agrees with zenwhen 
<bkingx> sabdfl:  January, when the KY Team was founded.
<atoponce> he's another valuable asset, that i plan on using for the US Teams Project in mentoring other loco state teams to get approved
<zenwhen> we met the other day to hand out flyers for our install fest. struck me as very professional and committed to ubuntu.
<bkingx> ty guys!
<micahcowan> Folks, my 2-month-old is hungry and my wife is out; if I'm still feeding her at my turn I may ask that you kick me down the queue a bit.
<Seveas> micahcowan, noted
<etank> bkingx has been one of the driving forces for the Kentucky Team. Lots of great ideas coming from him.
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for bkingx on the back of strong advocacy and loco leadership over 3+ months
<Seveas> nice
<bkingx> ty sabdfl
<Seveas> micahcowan, just poke when you're back. Until you poke we'll pick others :)
<micahcowan> Ok. If for some reason you run out of folks before I poke, just call me anyway. She can wait a few minutes for her bottle :)
<sabdfl> elmo, mako?
* mako is happy with bkingx as well!
<bkingx> ty mako
<mako> +1 from me
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> nice!
<Seveas> congrats
* etank high fives bkingx 
<Seveas> emonkey, you're up
<emonkey> First, I've updated just my launchpad page from ~ubuntu-de to ~emonkey and I don't dare to edit de CC agenda wikipage during the meeting so there is the old link. Sorry for that.
<zenwhen> good times!
<micahcowan> wife's back, I'm good
<atoponce> bkingx: congrats!
<Seveas> <sputnik> Hi! - I am Sputnik from the german kubuntu-community. Before I have to leave now I would like to promote candidate emonkey today who is on the list later. Emonkey has done a good job so far for the community here around and I trust his actvities.
<bkingx> Thank you all!!
<emonkey> I'm a 23 years aged system engineer who works in an assurance company and will start to study information technology at an university of applied sciences in zurich.'m part of the KubuntuGermanTeam and the Ubuntu SwissTeam. The next activity we do is the ../SwissTeam/ReleasePartyFeisty in Zurich] . I'll be at the Kubuntu booth on the LinuxTag in Berlin. Warty was my first Distro which has freed me from windows and it was
<emonkey> my start in contributing to the growing community. Unfortunately my english isn't the best so the biggest part of my activities are in communities which are speaking my native language.
<emonkey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Emonkey
<emonkey> https://launchpad.net/~emonkey
<Seveas> are there other german/swiss people to cheer for emonkey ?
<mindspin> yup
<netztier> I am
<neversfelde> yes
<Seveas> then cheer!
<txwikinger> yes
<blizzzek> yes
<Seveas> tell us about emonkey
<netztier> the guy is in for the release party even if exams are eating him alive :-)
<Monika|K> +1 for emonkey
<neversfelde> emonkey is an absolute essential member of the german kubuntu community. Without his encouragement there would be no german speaking kubuntu forum anymore.
<Monika|K> without him we would be nothing
<Monika|K> he administrates the server and the forum
<Monika|K> kubuntu-de.org that is
<mindspin> I 'll agree with neversfelde he pointed it out
<emonkey> thx all
<emonkey> you're great
* txwikinger agress with neversfelde, Monika|K
<blizzzek> me as well, neversfelde said it as it is
<Seveas> emonkey, how's the interaction between the german kubuntu and ubuntu team coming along?
<txwikinger> s/agress/agrees/
<mindspin> btw. hes not only a hard worker but a real ubuntero
<sabdfl> emonkey: did you do any iso testing of feisty RC?
<emonkey> Seveas, primary on expos atm
<emonkey> sabdfl, I tryed and will do more in for that for gutsy
<mako> your release party looks fun :)
<sabdfl> cool
* pips1 chirps in some swiss cheers for emonkey
<emonkey> Unfortunately there are some importent exams right now
<Seveas> pips1, very, very bad pun :p
<mako> can you provide a link to your contributions in the forums?
<emonkey> http://forum.kubuntu-de.org/index.php?action=profile (only in german)
<Monika|K> Since emonkey took over the administration of the German Kubuntu site, there is plenty of communication between us and the German Ubuntu team and ubuntuusers.de
<emonkey> 2414 posts
<mindspin> in german ;-)
<Monika|K> s/and/at
<sabdfl> that's very very good news
<pips1> Seveas: heh
<Seveas> indeed
<sabdfl> +1 from me, on the basis of leadership in getting ubuntu and kubuntu teams coordinated and in sync
<mindspin> the relationship between us is on a very good way
<Monika|K> We have IRC meetings with them and worked together on the Linuxtag in Chemnitz (an Expo)
<sabdfl>  				Dieses Mitglied ist nicht vorhanden. Das Profil kann nicht editiert werden.
<emonkey> sabdfl, sorry my fault, just a secone
<mindspin> sabdfl: you're quick in picking up german
<sabdfl> elmo, mako?
<emonkey> s/secone/second/
<mako> emonkey: no... that link only works if you are logged in AS YOU :)
<emonkey> mako, yes sorry one mom
* mako has found some stuff in the forums anyway
<mako> but anyway, +1 on the basis of the very serious forums work
<emonkey> http://forum.kubuntu-de.org/index.php?action=profile;u=28
<neversfelde> should be http://forum.kubuntu-de.org/index.php?action=profile;u=28
<mako> emonkey: i know this has been brought up before
<elmo> +1
<sabdfl> lots and lots o' coffee there :-)
<Seveas> Netzaffe :)
<mako> but if you haven't, you should talk to MikeB- or someone else from the official forums
<emonkey> :)
<Seveas> emonkey, Gutsy Netzaffe? ;)
<Seveas> anyway, congratz and welcome!
<mako> the idea isn't necessary to merge them (although as a long term goal, that would be great) but to provide links to provide prominent links to each other
<Seveas> micahcowan, you're up
<micahcowan> Well, I've been active since June last year, mostly in bug triaging and bug fixing. I also do support via IRC when I have the time to spare. I love Ubuntu, and it's really kicked a community-involvement thing into me: didn't used to really get involved in fixing bugs I encountered; now I'm quick to join up on bug mailing lists so I can work with upstream when appropriate. :) [wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MicahCowan]  [LP: https://launchpad.net/
<micahcowan> ~micah-cowan/] 
<emonkey> :9 yes I was vera pleased to hear the new codename :)
<micahcowan> I don't have a posse, but, I think some of the folks here may have encountered enough of my work to give a recommendation. Actually, that's what I was talking about with mako and jono: to see if I should consider applying if I don't have a fanclub (http://micah.cowan.name/jono-mail.txt).
<emonkey> thx all
<micahcowan> congratz emonkey :)
* Seveas adds a cheer for micahcowan, he's being very modest now: I see him quite often around #ubuntu
<micahcowan> Oh yeah, LaserJock said he might throw in if he was still around :)
* LaserJock is in the micahcowan fan club
<micahcowan> heh
<elmo> "written in PostScript" ...
<mako> MikeB-, emonkey: it might be useful to work with a bunch of people to create a drop-down menu and an image or someting that you can put in the header of all of the different fora that link to the other ones.. so if you want a particular language/subtopic/loco, you can at least see what's available
<micahcowan> PostScript so rox. It's so underrated.
<emonkey> mako, I'll note that
<emonkey> thx for hint
<Seveas> micahcowan, you write raw postscript by hand?
<sabdfl> micahcowan: have you had good experiences coordinating between the distro and upstream?
<MikeB-> mako: we are discussing that
<micahcowan> Seveas, yeah; it's actually just a programming language, more or less like any other (except it's heavily stack based and... cool).
<Seveas> O_o
<Seveas> Don't know whether I'm scared or impressed now
<sabdfl> isn't it some lithp / thcheme variant?
<micahcowan> sabdfl, yes, as in the experiences have been good. "good" as in plenty of experience? I dunno, it's a somewhat recent (but fairly active) thing.
<mako> MikeB-: i konw i've talked to some people about before, just thought i would poke it again :)
<sabdfl> positive, is what i meant :-)
<micahcowan> No, it's... probably closer to Perl/Python, really, but the syntax is quite different.
<micahcowan> sabdfl, so far, more than I expected. Especially my (brief) encounter on the kernel dev list
<sabdfl> cool
<Seveas> http://micah.cowan.name/svn/ps-maze/maze.ps?view=markup
<Seveas> yup, I'm scared
<micahcowan> Seveas, it's kind of a reverse-polish notation language. You end up thinking backwards a lot: you don't "call" with "arguments"; you explicitly place 'em on the stack, and then just invoke the routine :)
* sabdfl thinks that at least the *indentation* is familiar ;-)
<micahcowan> heh
<Seveas> micahcowan, I love rpn :)
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me based on duration of contribution, and support from all and sundry
<micahcowan> Seveas, then you should /really/ check out Adobe's PLRM (PostScript spec). I think you'd enjoy it.
<mako> i don't get your [+]  and [d]  notation :)
<mako> at all
<mako> but i like the fact that you're submitting and patching bugs :)
<micahcowan> mako, sorry: + means I submitted the bug (IIRC), and (d) means I supplied a diff.
<mako> d == diff, ok
<mako> yes, this all looks great
<mako> micahcowan: thanks for your contributions, i agree with jono, +1 from me
<micahcowan> :) thanks
<Seveas> elmo, ?
<mako> micahcowan: your wiki page is quite good. thanks for putting the effort into it
* sabdfl wants to put some other random bits into PDF's he sends around
<micahcowan> yw. ...I knew if I didn't start in on it from the very beginning, it'd be pure crap when I finally actually needed it...
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> micahcowan, welcome aboard!
<Seveas> yeager, you're next (and last)
<micahcowan> Yay! :D
<yeager> I'm 32 years old, living in Stockholm, Sweden. My work for Ubuntu is mainly about Swedish translations but also support for ubuntu-se, creating localized Ubuntu CDs for Nordic languages, filing bug reports. I work in the IT Security sector and have been using Linux since version 0.99pl15, Debian since 1997 and Ubuntu since 2004.
<yeager> Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~yeager/
<yeager> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/yeager
<yeager> elmo: hi there! long time no see :)
<Nafallo> 2004 was Warty :-)
<sabdfl> yeager: how can we improve collaboration between debian and ubuntu translators?
<Seveas> May I emphasize this:
<Seveas> Karma:  32330
<ubuntugeek>  /wave
<Seveas> 32-f-ing-thousand!
<micahcowan> :)
<Nafallo> sabdfl: in Swedish we do good. yeager translates _everything_ ;-)
<sabdfl> nice :-)
<sabdfl> it's pretty clearly +1 from me on the back of the scale of your contribution :-)
<yeager> sabdfl: debian is putting up a translation service based on Pootle. things are still a bit early to say
<sabdfl> but i'd like to hear your thoughts on how we make things better
<sabdfl> i hope that works out well
<sabdfl> ok, definite +1 from me based on huge l10n contribution
<Seveas> you said that alrady :)
<imbrandon> re
<yeager> sabdfl: debian translators are looking forward to new technologies, such as web-based translation services like Rosetta. The Swedish translation team for Debian is, well, me. I do involve myself in debian-l10n and read their mailing list on a daily basis
<sabdfl> mako, elmo?
<yeager> many of the Debian translators are also part of other teams like GNOME and KDE
<mako> hold up.. still looking this over
<Nafallo> he have helped me and ozamosi a far amount when we've tried translating :-)
<yeager> Nafallo: you need to work on your Swedish grammar :)
<Nafallo> yeager: indeed. but you keep showing me how :-)
<sabdfl> https://answers.launchpad.net/~alanpope/
<sabdfl> wow
<sabdfl> i love exploring
<mako> easy +1 from me
<mako> loads of translations work
<mako> pretty staggering actually
<elmo> yeah, +1
<mako> yeager: thanks! :)
<Seveas> yeager, welcome aboard :)
<sabdfl> alrighty then!
<Nafallo> YAY!
<yeager> thanks, guys
<ozamosi> Woho! :D
<sabdfl> Seveas: thanks once again for steering us along
<Seveas> datetime of next meeting: may 1st 13:00 UTC?
<elmo> I'm travelling then
<yeager> elmo: say hi to the nocrew guys next time you meet them
<mindspin> may first is not working class friendly ;-)
<Seveas> ok
<mako> alright then!
<sabdfl> i'm on the road then, too
<Seveas> we could skip a meeting and give the new CC members a good amount of work on their first meeting :)
<elmo> yeager: heh, will do
<Seveas> or is allhands in the way there? (would be the week after uds)
<mindspin> hehe
<MikeB-> Seveas: don't be evil :)
<sabdfl> well done all
<sabdfl> Seveas: allhands is in november
<sabdfl> only once a year :-(
<Seveas> hehe
<ScottK> Thanks again everyone.
<micahcowan> Ditto :)
<elmo> Seveas: have you been doing LP?
<Seveas> so may 16, 13:00?
<Seveas> elmo, will do later
<elmo> Seveas: ah, ok
<Seveas> including votes
<elmo> may 16th is ok for me, AFAIK, it's after UDS at least
<sabdfl> 279 members
<sabdfl> may 1 is a long time away!
<sabdfl> sorry, 16th
<Seveas> some members will expire in may
<Seveas> I already mailed them
<sabdfl> we need to get the delegated membership thing going
<sabdfl> night all
<mindspin> night
<Seveas> sabdfl, many of the people who are now direct member will be delegated members in a few months :)
<Seveas> g'night all, have to get up in 6 hours so I'm out
<ubuntugeek> sorry this is late, do i need to get reapproved or anything to use ubuntuforums.org?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, you mean wrt trademarks?
<ubuntugeek> yep
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, I don't think mark is stupid enough to try to force you to rename ubuntuforums.org :)
<mako> sabdfl: night
<sabdfl> ubuntugeek: any existing trademark license you've arranged with silbs will continue
<Nafallo> lol
<sabdfl> night all
<mako> ubuntugeek: it's an official part of ubuntu
<ubuntugeek> ok :) just wanted to make sure
<mako> permission is necessary when people that are not ubuntu want to call their thing ubuntu
<ubuntugeek> whats silbs?
<LaserJock> funnyafricannameforums.org?
<Seveas> ubuntugeek, Jane Silber
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
<ubuntugeek> Ah ok
<elmo> ubuntugeek: jane siber's IRC nick
<mako> ubuntugeek: jane silber
<mako> ubuntugeek: anyway, don't sweat it
<MikeB-> LaserJock: that name is taken:(
<ubuntugeek> Well since we don't have anything I suppose we should :)
<MikeB-> :)
<ubuntugeek> mako: ok
<joejaxx> LaserJock: may i pm?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: don't ask, do :-)
<Nafallo> mako: ehrm. so if yeager spins Ubuntu Nordic it doesn't need to be named Ubuntu Nordic Remix? :-)
<mako> Nafallo: it might depend on how he does it
<mako> it has to be blessed by the project
<mako> which, if there is any debate, is decided by the CC
<mako> the forums *are* an official part of ubuntu, within the ubuntu governance structure
<mako> that would be a much harder argument to make about Ubuntu Nordic
<mako> at least right now :)
<Nafallo> throws out *langpacks and throws in nordic langpacks + keeps english :-)
<Nafallo> yea, I know. even if we are synced to swedish and soon norweigan official mirrors ;-)
<elmo> ok, I have to crash - night all
<Nafallo> hehe. no time to say gnight there :-P
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Community Council | 18 Apr 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 10:00: Development Team | 24 Apr 15:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 15:00: MOTU
<txwikinger> hi nixternal
<jono> he
<jono> hey
<ajmitch> hey jono
<jono> ajmitch: :)
<txwikinger> hi jono
<nixternal> hey
<ajmitch> slightly late for CC, I think :)
<jono> heh
<joejaxx> :P
<txwikinger> yes finished about 30 mins ago
<jono> yeah was busy tonight
<jono> drinking way too much tea
<jono> on a caffiene trip right now
<ajmitch> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<theCore> Is there a specific process for scheduling a meeting here?
<tonyyarusso> theCore: You have to contact The Fridge people, whoever they may be.
<theCore> thanks tonyyarusso
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 21 Apr 17:00 UTC: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<auge> bye
<pips1> @schedule zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 18 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 21 Apr 19:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: MOTU
<txwikinger> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 18 Apr 13:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 16:00: Development Team | 21 Apr 18:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 21:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 21:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:00: MOTU
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 18 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 19 Apr 23:00: Development Team | 22 Apr 01:00: Support Team | 25 Apr 04:00: Technical Board | 26 Apr 04:00: Edubuntu | 27 Apr 04:00: MOTU
<willvdl> Burgwork, you there?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 21 Apr 17:00 UTC: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU
<RichEd> hello edubunteros
* ogra waves
<jsgotangco> hi
<RichEd> let's see if we can do this in 90 mins ...
<pips1_> hello
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco, ogra
<RichEd> pips1_:
<RichEd> ogra: technical
<ogra> tech: we're ready for release ;)
* RichEd applauds ... good to go
<pips1_> nice
<ogra> if you didnt help testing yet, here you can look up tests that are still missing
<RichEd> ogra: are you happy overall ?
<ogra> https://www.stgraber.org/ubuntu/isotesting/
<pips1_> there aren't that many tests missing really
<ogra> i'm happy apart from the fact that i'd like to have had the fix for bug 105709 earlier
<ubotu> Malone bug 105709 in ltsp "sound config not reset after thin client usage" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105709
<ogra> but it can go into -updates
<ogra> apart from that i'm happy all over :)
<pips1_> ogra: you didn't help testing?
<ogra> pips1_, ??
<jsgotangco> lol
* RichEd thanks all who have contributed & helped with the new version
<pips1_> ah, sorry misread
<ogra> i tested all CDs as usual
<ogra> and i will go for a netboot install test as soon as the meeting is done
<willvdl> +++
<ogra> seems thats the last missing one
<jsgotangco> i did test the amd64 DVD for edubuntu (as well as the other amd64 for ubuntu)
<ogra> all we need now is a release announcem,ent and we can start speccing gutsy ;)
<ogra> for gutsy i have a list of thins i want to spec:
<pips1_> yes, 2 netboot tests missing, 5 edubuntu server tests and 2 desktop tests
<ogra> *things
<RichEd> The release was prepared by Jane Silber ... it is a combined one. Will is going to post for us. Will ... do you have a copy ?
<willvdl> not yet
<willvdl> but can post it easy enough
<RichEd> let me ask her for the latest one
<jsgotangco> hmm it used to be community written though
<willvdl> will I need to Edubuntise it?
<ogra> RichEd, no, we'll need our own notes on the webpage, the combined one links to it
<willvdl> jsgotangco, I assume it is taken from coomunity contribs
<RichEd> well let me get the combined one, and then we can see what to add / modify
<willvdl> ogra, ah, noow I get it
<ogra> we dont modify that one
<ogra> RichEd, ^^^
<ogra> we just need our webpage to be ready by release ...
<RichEd> i mean we use the ubuntu combined one as a starting point, and then flesh out more detail .... keeping language style etc consistent
<ogra> and its up to us to send a separate announcement to any edubuntu MLs
<pips1_> yes, the download page needs updating
<ogra> but we wont have one separately to ubuntu-announce
* RichEd nods ... that's they way in understand it as well
<RichEd> way *I
<ogra> right, but let me finish tech ;) thats docs ;)
* pips1_ looks around for highvoltage
<ogra> so i want to have a bunch of specs for gutsy:
<ogra> 1. finish ltsp manager (seems the demand gets bigger here and feisty doesnt have it yet)
<ogra> 2. make the VNC stuff work out of the box in TCM
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients has instructions for feisty ...
<ogra> we'll need to automate that stuff in gutsy
<jsgotangco> +1
<ogra> 3. merge python-tcm and python-ltsp ...
<ogra> cbx33 isnt here today, sad
<ogra> 4. ltsp speed profiling
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/BootSpeedeBox2300 is horrific
<ogra> i agreed with all other ltsp devs that we will put the main focus for gutsy on that ... that means we'll have a lot of profiling sessions in sevilla ...
<ogra> and hopefulle that will bring us a extremely slimlined -ltsp kernel image as well ..
<willvdl> any fault tolerance specs?
<willvdl> suppose they'll come out at UDS
<ogra> 5. ldm rewrite ... a new guio is nearly done (i wrote it ovber easter) nearly three times as fast and only 10% in size of the curren one
<ogra> willvdl, can you elaborate ?
<willvdl> things like persistance in connections
<highvoltage> hi pips1_
<willvdl> session management etc
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+branch/ltsp/ldm-greeter <-- in case anyone is interested in committing code ...
<ogra> willvdl, thats something Xorg must provide first ...
<RichEd> willvdl: there was a request to discuss fault tolerance at UES ... let me get the launcpad link
<willvdl> ogra, true, hence I remembered uds
<ogra> session management is TCM ... we'll surely enhance it further
<RichEd> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/fault-tolerant-edubuntu
<willvdl> RichEd, aware of that, but the technical spec side is reliant on upstream work
<ogra> 6. improve ldm error handling (give useful input to users if a login fails)
<ogra> and my biggest one:
<RichEd> willvdl:  well we need to get the requirements in the discussion, and note dependencies & possibilities of what can or can't be done
<ogra> 7. drop the first edubuntu CD and make it a ubuntu-thin-client-server.iso ... edubuntu should move to the addon CD completely
<ogra> i know 7 will be most controversial
* jsgotangco just blinked
<willvdl> :)
<ogra> thats my list of specs i want to register ...
<highvoltage> ogra: from a technical perspective, it does make sense. it also breaks the 'turnkey' component of edubuntu
<highvoltage> then again... ubuntu is easy enough to install these days.
<willvdl> highvoltage, +
<RichEd> highvoltage: we can still provide the turnkey option as an .iso
<willvdl> I think it opens up opportunities for more turnkey options
<highvoltage> RichEd: a teacher doesn't consider it turnkey if they have to press eject on their cd-drive twice;)
<highvoltage> RichEd: please don't ge t me wronge, I'm not apposed to it
<ogra> highvoltage, beyond ltsp setup in the installer there is nothing that really justifies to have the first edubuntu CD ... if you drop the installer part, only artwork, some settings and package selection are left
<ogra> these will work very well from the second CD
<willvdl> with moodle and friends on 2nd CD?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, I agree
<ogra> *and* we could make the addon CD apply to ubuntu *and-+ kubuntu with that setup ... so its totally up to the user what base desktop he has
<ogra> willvdl, right
<highvoltage> ogra: that's very cool
<ogra> even xfce would be possible :)
* pips1_ thinks this is a good move
<RichEd> also with that approach, it allows for more "agressive marketing" of thin client ubuntu ... good commercial opportunties (I mean for corporate market)
<highvoltage> edubuntu should really have been that way from the start, imho
<ogra> anyway, we'll need that thin-client-iso .... mdz is opposing a standalone CD for that but im confident we'll get a solution one or the other way here
<RichEd> and ubuntu + moodle is then an option, as well as edubuntu + moodle etc.
<ogra> right
<jsgotangco> won't that make the brand irrelevant?
<willvdl> the brand is *buntu :)
<jsgotangco> i mean your ltsp iso is stand alone and you then choose your desktop
<ogra> jsgotangco, no, the brand will be still on the addon CD ...
<RichEd> jsgotangco: edubuntu then becomes a configuration, rather than a product, but can be retained as a brand as such
<jsgotangco> willvdl: exactly i mean what's edubuntu here?
<jsgotangco> bingo
<ogra> jsgotangco, what it always was ... a set of apps, settings and artwork
<willvdl> jsgotangco, edubuntu is the educational variant, but variant is a misnomer
<RichEd> jsgotangco: it's an add-on ... and that's what it is in reality no ?
<jsgotangco> its not a product anymore but a configuraiton
<ogra> its still a product
<ogra> but shipped differently
<jsgotangco> err?
<willvdl> the configuration is the product?
<jsgotangco> ask RichEd
<willvdl> just thinking aloud
<RichEd> you add edubuntu to ubuntu ... the add-on can be seen as a product ... and packaed as such
<RichEd> *packaged
<ogra> the set of config, artwork and apps is a product ... but shipped as an addon to *buntu
<bimberi> "edu" constrains the potention in the Ubuntu LTSP solution
<bimberi> *potential
* RichEd agrees with bimberi 
<ogra> right
<ogra> we want a plain ubuntu LTSP you can isntall as you install edubuntu today
<jsgotangco> it is a bit confusing but its your call
<ogra> the biggest advantage will be shipit ...
<willvdl> jsgotangco, if anything it makes life easier for us to get on with the Edu part of edubuntu
<ogra> currently you can only get the first edubuntu CD from it
<RichEd> thin client is good for banking halls, government service terminals, icafe's etc. but is not promoted as such as it kind of stays inside edubuntu or education) which is its roots, but not a final resting place
<ogra> but not the addon which has much of the edu apps
<highvoltage> ogra: why should there be a thin-client iso? (I'm not apposed, I just don't understand)
<jsgotangco> ok if i get this right, it becomes a cookbook of sorts, you get to choose your ingredients
<ogra> highvoltage, my vision would be a plain thin client iso with duifferent install variants:
<ogra> 1. plain LTSP
<ogra> 2. fat client server
<willvdl> jsgotangco, which have assumedly been hand-selected by a repected community
<ogra> 3. icafe setup (webkiosk)
<pips1_> yes, why an thin client iso? it could just be an installation option on the ubuntu and kubuntu installers
<ogra> 4. whateveryoucanimaginehere
<highvoltage> ogra: ah, so it won't contain the pre-build chroots as such?
<ogra> it will use the installer as we use it now in edubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> 5 netboot gateway
<highvoltage> ogra: surely those will fit on the ubuntu cd? or is the seperate cd to emphasize value-add?
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, good point, noted
<Kamping_Kaiser> ty (i made one by hand :S)
<ogra> highvoltage, ltsp needs the i386 kernel ...
<ogra> which means ~20M
<ogra> it wont fit on the normal ubuntu CD
<ogra> mdz's suggestion was to add it to the server CD, but then we'll need to ship a desktop there
<pips1_> ach, the size limitation prob again
<ogra> which is pointless imho ...
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, I see what you mean.
<ogra> this CD i'm talking about would actually be the current first edubuntu CD without branding :)
<pips1_> yes, I was just about to ask... server components like moodle, schooltool, how do you get those integrated in what now currently is "edubuntu"
<pips1_> ?
* Amaranth meekly pops in
<ogra> via metapackages
<ogra> preseeding package settings works on the addon CD as well as in the installer ...
<pips1_> ah
<willvdl> which is what would have been done on 1st CD anyway
<ogra> its a bit different but nothing that prevents us from using it on the addon CD
<jsgotangco> i have a simple question
<pips1_> so what are the steps to install a ltsp classroom server with moodle?
<willvdl> forget the "?"
<pips1_> *what would the steps be?
<ogra> pips1_, in gutsy you mean ?
<pips1_> yes
<ogra> well, install an ubuntu ltsp server from the thin client CD (or the ubuntu server CD or whatever)
<ogra> pop in your addon CD ... gnome-app-install pops up ...
<ogra> select edubuntu-moodle-server .... and click ok
<ogra> probably answer two questions about the DB admin password and thats it ...
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ask?
<ogra> thats how i see it
<pips1_> you install the LTSP iso, choose 'plain ltsp' (for example), insert the addon cd ... and then what? do you get options like 1. install edu desktop apps 2. install moodle 3. install schooltool, etc.?
<ogra> highvoltage, dont encourage him, he could actually do it :P
<highvoltage> heh!
<highvoltage> ogra: perhaps I already scared him off?
<jsgotangco> where is the focus on education here now? why do i see this as a meeting of ltsp rather than an edubuntu one?
<ogra> pips1_, the addon CD will work as it does now ...l through g-a-i
<pips1_> ogra, I see
<ogra> jsgotangco, the focus will be much clearer if we make that move
<jsgotangco> ok
<ogra> the addon CD will be the edu part of things
<pips1_> so moodle would simply appear in the listings like the other desktop applications?!
<willvdl> jsgotangco, see your concern but I see this as the start of a (big) conversation
<jsgotangco> it is
<ogra> totally independent of the underlying arch
<jsgotangco> i understand the technical need btw
<ogra> pips1_, there woukld be an edubuntu-moodle entry or something like that, yes
<RichEd> ogra: would it be edubuntu-moodle or *buntu-moodle ?
<ogra> jsgotangco, its not a *need* we live fine with it as is ... but it just seems to make far more sense
<ogra> RichEd, edubuntu-moodle since it would be on the addon CD just to provide the entry in g-a-i
<pips1_> hmm, this will defnitely need a discussion session at the UES and UDS, me thinks
<ogra> for ubuntu you would just iunstall moodle
<highvoltage> pips1_: yes, that's what ogra said :)
<ogra> the edubuntu-moodle entry would only add it to gnome-app-install
<ogra> might even be edubuntu-server if we ship more than moodle
<ogra> or edubuntu-services
<RichEd> okay ... do we need to discuss this at UES before UDS, or can it wait for UDS ?
<ogra> thast up to us to spec at UDS ;) nothinbg for the meeting
<ogra> we should at least discuss the complete move to an addon ... tech details can go to UDS
<highvoltage> at least it made the meeting a bit exciting, you should bring up subjects like this more often :)
<RichEd> it may be an idea to has a session at UES on "the edubuntu add-on CD and what people would like to see there"
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> that was my plan ...
<RichEd> if you create the UDS meeting, I'll make a more general one for UES
<ogra> i havent registered any specs yet for any of the summits ... i plan to do that over the weekend or beginning next week
<ogra> releae was keeping me busy :) i only made a list on ym whiteboard yet :)
<RichEd> ah ... analogue technology
<ogra> heh, yes
<RichEd> Time marches on ... are we reaching the end of technical ?
<ogra> my whiteboard is my mind :)
<ogra> yup
<highvoltage> I think http://www.kiwix.org/ would be nice to include on CD#2
<ogra> tech done ... unless there are questions
<highvoltage> but we can discuss that in Sevilla :)
<ogra> right, we should have a spec for app selection at UES
<pips1_> I'm really interested in the mid to long term ideas of how *integration* works for server components (ltsp / dhcp / directory server / moodle / ...) and the desktop
<RichEd> we should probably have a technical spec discussion at next weeks meeting, to talk through the BOFs ogra is gong to create, and what else people think is missing
<willvdl> highvoltage, kiwix, oooooh
<highvoltage> willvdl: indeed :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i hope that doesnt need mediawiki or something
<willvdl> pips1_, ++
<highvoltage> ogra: it seems like a standalone thing, I haven't tried it yet, but will download to provide feedback and information
<willvdl> ogra, oooh, looks like it does :)
<RichEd> okie moving on to: Documentation then ...
<RichEd> Documentation for the release we need:
<willvdl> someone mentioned download page needs updating?
<RichEd> 1 our own announcement written for the edubutu mailing lists
<RichEd> 2 our own announcement page for edubuntu.org
<RichEd> 3, check download page & update
<RichEd> I'll do #1 with ogra's input
<RichEd> willvdl: , can you look after #2 if I give you the text from #1 ?
<willvdl> #1 can be synchronous with wiki page?
<ogra> 1 can just link to 2, no ?
<willvdl> ogra, yeah
<RichEd> yes ... 1 is the text for the mail shot ... plain, no format
<RichEd> 2 needs to look pretty, so it is just a bit of tarting up
<willvdl> #2 would be #2-a: www.e.o "combined announcement"
<willvdl> and #2-b: wiki page as always
<RichEd> so willvdl, if i do the text, can you create the pages and make it look pretty ?
* willvdl can't remember where the notes go on the wiki...
<willvdl> yeah. no problem
<RichEd> and pips1_ : you mentioned that the download page needs updating. can you manage with that and what help / info do you need ?
<willvdl> probably info from Matt?
<jsgotangco> download links never change much, just the folders where they are supposed to be grabbed
<pips1_> well, matt got in touch with me. he has developed a drupal module that dynamically updates the best download mirrors
<highvoltage> pips1_: is that the file I'm waiting for?
<pips1_> highvoltage agreed to install the drupal module on the webserver once matt nuzum is done with the module...
<highvoltage> ah ok. I wondered what the module was for..
<RichEd> okie ... shall I check with matt nuzum as to the status of that ?
<pips1_> yes, it's a bit convoluted that there are now three people involved... but on the short term, it's ok, highvoltage and me can discuss how we streamline this in the future
<RichEd> okie popping over to ask matt now
<pips1_> when is the release actually going to happen? (I need to know to be ready in the right moment)?
<pips1_> ogra ^^^ ?
<highvoltage> pips1_: tomorrow is the 19th ;)
<pips1_> what time?
<ogra> 19th is scheduled
<ogra> no idea
<jsgotangco> you can actually grab the cd now if you want
<ogra> european noon i guess
<ogra> to catch the press
<willvdl> CET, EET or WET? :P
<jsgotangco> WET sounds good
<ogra> AET-2 :P
<willvdl> I prefer EET....mmmh...eet
<RichEd> pips1_, highvoltage : i've pinged newz2000 waiting for a response ...
<bimberi> it'll be April 19 somewhere in the world for ~48 hours :)
<pips1_> RichEd: mee too in #ubuntu-matt
<willvdl> prob a bit early for him?
<pips1_> willvdl: yep
<ogra> we have an #ubuntu-matt channel ?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> are all matts we have in there ?
<RichEd> pips1_: i'll join you there ... to cut out the number of comms laters
<RichEd> *layers
<jsgotangco> that can seriously start a trend
<ogra> jsgotangco, freenode will love you :)
<willvdl> ogra, would be a busy channel
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> but not as big as #ubuntu-chris
<ogra> heh
<willvdl> any other doc news?
<willvdl> last week was mentioned that "edubuntu-docs" is final, translation templates are up for sale...
<pips1_> I'm just a bit concerned about this download "module"... when there is only very little time, I prefer to keep it simple, i.e. I'd rather have some static links to mirrors, rather than a fancy dynamic thing... also we should really test matt's module on a separate drupal 4.7 test install, rather than dropping it onto the live server (the ubuntu site is using drupal 5.0 so i don't know if any compatability issues occur)
<willvdl> and handbook updated
<ogra> willvdl, given that the CDs are final ...
<highvoltage> pips1_: we can still have the static page as a fallback
<ogra> we can still push updates through feisty-updates later
<willvdl> pips1_, if it's the module I'm thinking of then it is already in production?
<willvdl> scratch that
<willvdl> didn't read you properly
<pips1_> willvdl: yes, it is in production on the ubuntu site, but it needs adjustments to link  to *edubuntu* isos
<RichEd> ogra: i've mailed you a text doc with #1 the ubuntu and #2 ubuntu flavours announcement text. can you please add the additional points for edubuntu (features etc) and I will sort out from there
<pips1_> also, what i said about the different versions of drupal u.c vs e.o might apply
<ogra> RichEd, indeed
<ogra> (the thing i hate most in a release cycle ... writing release announcements)
<RichEd> thanks ... i'll then pass on to willvdl for the web stuff, and also send out on edubuntu-users, edubuntu-devel, and ubuntu-education
<willvdl> pips1_, we can use the wiki as before which has a link "https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/DownloadRedirect" which just redirects to www.e.org
<RichEd> ogra: you give me the tech bullets, i'll make up the reading version
<ogra> yup
<willvdl> so we could modify the get-edubuntu wiki page
<willvdl> and point to it from the www site?
<willvdl> hmmm, sounds a bit convoluted
<highvoltage> ogra: that's a very peculiar stage to hate :)
<pips1_> willvdl: huh?
<pips1_> willvdl: let's keep the download page on edubuntu.org rather than the wiki
<willvdl> wiki site links to http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<pips1_> yes, let's keep it there
<willvdl> fine with me
<RichEd> willvdl: alo please confirm the link you will use for the page on the edubuntu.org so I can have it in the release
<ogra> highvoltage, its a special kind of report ... i hate writing any kind of reports :P
<willvdl> the one that Mithrandir wnated?
<RichEd> ogra: when do you think I should send out the mail shot ? tomorrow, but any specific time recommended ?
<Mithrandir> RichEd: after I press the button is probably a good time. :-)
<ogra> RichEd, if the ubuntu announcement is out ...
<willvdl> urk, gotto check the log to see exact wording...
<RichEd> Mithrandir: when do you think that will be ? just to get myself ready ...
<pips1_> erm, another loose end: what about the (very popular) 'getting started' page that highvoltage wrote? surely, it needs to be archived and a new updated version needs done ? (taking the new setup with the addon cd into account)!
<Mithrandir> RichEd: some time during the day; we're roughly in the same TZ.
<RichEd> thanks ... will look out for the ubuntu-announce and check with you after i see that
<Mithrandir> I'll be happy to prod you on IRC
<pips1_> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<pips1_> ^^^ this needs an update, or am I wrong?
<highvoltage> pips1_: yes, it needs an update
<willvdl> RichEd, got it: www.edubuntu.org/news/7.04-release
<RichEd> thanks ...
<ogra> RichEd, we ususally have it so the european press can still pick it up and the US press can soon pick it up ...
<ogra> so around noon your time or a bit later would be my guess ...
<highvoltage> pips1_: and the teacher advocacy page too, we need to update screenshots justfor some applications with new features
<pips1_> urg.. so who has the time to update it? (and who knows about the tech details to be correct)?
<willvdl> pips1_, should be marked for CleanUp
<RichEd> ogra: I'll wait for the official prod from Mithrandir ...
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> pips1_, oops, sorry again
<willvdl> read you wrong :)
<pips1_> hehe
<willvdl> pips1_, there was discussion at length a while back where installation notes should go
<willvdl> on wiki, on www or leave it in Colins debian install guide
<pips1_> ^^^  ogra highvoltage (hope hope)
<RichEd> Just on a note of meeting order: We're kind of covering documentation & web site agenda points at the moment. We can go back to artwork after this.
<willvdl> pips1_, http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted is actually still current but for Dapper...we should just rename it
<pips1_> willvdl: yes
<highvoltage> pips1_: the screenshots isn't incredibly critical, I'll install edubuntu-desktop and check what has changed the most. anyone could also do that.
<pips1_> well, it's for edgy, rather than dapper, no?
<pips1_> highvoltage: ok, I'll do the screenshots.
<highvoltage> pips1_: cool
<pips1_> highvoltage: can you do the getting started?
<willvdl> highvoltage,, pips1_: do we want to continue this way? Install guide on www?
<ogra> there should be no special notes for feisty beyond the ubuntu notes
<pips1_> ogra: what do you mean by "notes"?
<ogra> we dont need manual intervention since edgy anymore, so the ubuntu notes should just be fine for us
<ogra> install notes
<pips1_> ah
<pips1_> so by install notes, you also mean that 'getting started' page?
<ogra> dapper needed the dhcpd.conf fiddling ....
<highvoltage> willvdl: I think it's important to have "a" install guide where people can easily find it
<ogra> well, thats our install notes page, isnt it ?
<willvdl> if we have a GettingStarted page then we should have it for Dapper, Edgy and a link to Feisty
<pips1_> yes, you can call it that :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: but it doesn't necassarily have to be its home
<willvdl> highvoltage, remember a discussion we had with cjwatson about this?
<pips1_> highvoltage, ogra: can you tell me of the current content on the GettingStarted page is relevant to A.) Dapper B.) Edgy C.) both?
<ogra> A
<ogra> and indeed BC whatever ... if you cur out the dhcpd.conf parts ...
<ogra> *cut
<pips1_> so the difference is that on edgy, you didn't need to manually edit the dhcpd.conf anymore
<highvoltage> pips1_: originally A, then adapted to suite B as well
<willvdl> so A up until manual edit of dhcp.conf, then C
<ogra> pips1_, exactly ... the screens apart from that should be similar over all releases
<pips1_> just to make sure: does the last section "fine-tuning the thin client setup" apply to *both* Dapper and Edgy?
<pips1_> I mean, are those ltsp options all supported in Dapper?
* ogra looks
<ogra> hmm
<highvoltage> ogra: I think last when we discussed, you said it would be best if there was a seperate wiki page for all the lts.conf tags?
<ogra> that should rather use the file from /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts.conf
<ogra> that example file was never really accurate
<highvoltage> (which would also specify since which release it's availble)
<ogra> (the one on the webpage)
<ogra> and it should point the user to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz
<pips1_> arg, this is getting a bit complicated. I think we definitely need to get this right today
<ogra> indeed that can be copied into a wikipage ... i tried to keep it up to date since edgy ... so it should list all valid optiojns
<pips1_> ok, that makes it easier
<ogra> whats complicatesd about that, replace the example lts.conf and poiunt users to read /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz to get info about all available options
<ogra> if you urgently want to copy it into the wiki, do it... but the pointer should suffice ... we also have that list of options in the handbook
<pips1_> I'll copy the GettingStarted page twice, keep the current one for Dapper (rename it accordingly) and then trim the copies to work for Edgy and Feisty? And on all pages, we delete the last paragraph about the LTSP options and simply reference the wiki page that ogra mentioned
<willvdl> pips1_, ++
<ogra> err, i did mention a wikipage ?
<pips1_> ah, sorry, indeed you said that the content of /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz can be copied to a wiki page
<ogra> right
<ogra> but i'd rather refer to the handbook
<ogra> and point to the path for deeper info ...
<pips1_> for the sake of simplicity I'll do all that, and then I'll ping you guys (highvoltage and ogra) to proof read the GettingStarted page (in particular for Feisty)
<willvdl> maybe start collating such stuff under release specific names?
<ogra> if you are at a point where you override ltsp defaults (which is what lts,conf does) you have a rnning server and all docs available
<RichEd> pips1_ & highvoltage ... matt nuzum is alive & waiting in #ubuntu-matt to chat about the download module
* RichEd needs to shoot out for 20 mins ... should be back before the end of the meeting
<ogra> well, is there still anything we need to discuass in the meeting ?
<pips1_> so ogra, where do if find that handbook page about lts.conf ?
<ogra> i think what we're doing atm casn move to #edubuntu
<willvdl> well we can keep the discussion alive but wrap up the meeting with artwork and community?
<RichEd> Not any more from me for today. just a call to those who want to discuss UES and UDS and Feisty+1 specs to be at next weeks meeting.
<pips1_> ok, let's discuss the details about the release doc to @edubuntu
<ogra> right, so lets wrap up and move to #edubuntu
<RichEd> Thanks all ... I have to dash.
<highvoltage> RichEd: I brefer to bash, personally.
<pips1_> artwork?
<ogra> any other business ?
<willvdl> community is upcoming UES
<ogra> highvoltage, trhats not posix conform, you know that
<RichEd> me bashes highvoltage <-like that ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: more like in, /bin/bash :)
<willvdl> highvoltage, club seals, it's more accepted around here
<highvoltage> ogra: posix needs to catch up ;)
<ogra> heh
<willvdl>  /join #sealcubclubclub
<ogra> soo
<ogra> pips1_, what doi you want to say about artwork ?
<pips1_> I don't want to say anything, I was asking :-)
<ogra> well, there is nothing to discuss so far i think
<ogra> any other business ?
<willvdl> not from here
<ogra> going once ....
<willvdl> happy release everyone
<ogra> going twice ....
<ogra> adjourned !
<ogra> thaks everyone, enjoy the release :)
<willvdl> minutes are on wiki
<willvdl> (for once on time)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Apr 15:00 UTC: Development Team | 21 Apr 17:00 UTC: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<illovae> hello
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Apr 17:00: Development Team | 21 Apr 19:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 22:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 18 2007, 19:34:47 - Next meeting: Development Team in 19 hours 25 minutes
<juliux> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-19
<iSeriesTech> sorry
<iSeriesTech> back now
<iSeriesTech> Ubuntu just logged me out
<iSeriesTech> what was the question
<Devaux> join #ubuntu
<Devaux> Ups :)
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotu]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Apr 17:00 UTC: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> Seveas: what did that bot do to you ;)
<Seveas> nixternal, it would just have reset the topic :)
<nixternal> I removed the meeting from the fridge, so all should be good
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotu]  by Seveas
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Apr 17:00 UTC: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<Seveas> /cs d
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<Pici> @now new_york
<ubotu> Current time in America/New_York: April 19 2007, 12:17:45 - Next meeting: Support Team in 2 days
<sid> @schedule New_York
<ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 21 Apr 13:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 16:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 16:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 16:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 11:00: Kernel Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-21
<txwikinger> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 21 Apr 18:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 21:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 21:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 21:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 16:00: Kernel Team
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 21 Apr 17:00: Support Team | 24 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Support Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<theCore> So, who is here for the support team meeting?
<popey> o/
<popey> in and out and around about
<theCore> that's good
<marianom> theCore: I'm here for the meeting
<popey> kids bath time so it's a busy time in this house :S
<marianom> hi popey
<theCore> hi marianom
<marianom> hi theCore
<popey> not sure how much I will be able to contribute, sorry
<theCore> popey, that's okay
<theCore> hopefully, more people will show up
* popey wonders how many people are on the helpteam mailing list
* theCore starts counting
<popey> mailman will tell you
<popey> dunno who is the admin of the list tho
<theCore> 30
<theCore> it's me
<popey> people who have posted or subscribers?
<theCore> subscribers
<popey> thats not a lot is it
<popey> :(
<theCore> that's start
<popey> quite low traffic list, we need to pimp it (as jono would say)
<theCore> *a start
<theCore> yeah but right now time is the problem for me
<theCore> that's why I want to get new admin
<popey> to admin the list?
<popey> I'll volunteer if needed. I have some experience in that area
<theCore> moderator on the list, and admin on lp
<theCore> the list don't take much of my time
<theCore> what I am looking for is someone for motivating the "troops"
<popey> :)
<popey> well, I am giving a session during the open week next week all about support - specifically the answer tracker in launchpad
<popey> maybe we could get some people in that way?
<popey> push the help team
<theCore> sure, that would certainly be a great idea
<marianom> do you guys find there's not enough people answering?
<theCore> marianom, depends
<jsgotangco> hmm, didn't know there was a support team :)
<jsgotangco> (hi btw)
<theCore> jsgotangco, hi
<marianom> hi jsgotangco
<popey> marianom: answering on the ubuntu-users mailing list, forums, irc or answer tracker?
<marianom> popey:  answer tracker. i find the others pretty cover and I considered answer tracker was exactly the same.
<popey> yeah, i think the answer tracker isnt very well known
<popey> which is one reason for the session next week
<jsgotangco> its quite solid for this release though
<popey> to promote its use amongst people with problems, but also with people who are wanting to help
<marianom> what I think we need is a little bit of more organization. e.g. we need statistics of what people is asking so we can, for example, feed the documentation team.
<popey> indeed
<theCore> marianom, exactly
<popey> I am trying to pull together what people are asking so I can create screencasts that are useful
<marianom> I think forums can provide that with the tag system but I fail see a good reporting system in lp
<txwikinger> hi folks.. sorry for being late
<marianom> hi txwikinger
<popey> hey txwikinger
<theCore> marianom, in fact, reporting frequently to the docteam is my primary project, I want to accomplish
<marianom> theCore: ok.
<theCore> hi txwikinger
<theCore> however, I ain't sure how we could do that efficiently
<theCore> tag support in the answer tracker?
<popey> speak to Matthew East, mdke on irc, he might be the best person to talk to about that theCore
<marianom> theCore: I was thinking about that
<popey> i believe tag support is coming
<popey> there are a few new features that we will be talking about in the open week next week
<txwikinger> maybe as well that we can change the package
<marianom> txwikinger: great idea. users asking generally use the wrong clasificacion, IMHO
<popey> should we start going through the items on the agenda
<popey> ?
<theCore> the first thing, I would like to get done today is defining some sort of support guidelines/standard
<theCore> popey, yes
<popey> a how-to for support people?
<txwikinger> Maybe as well a little bit the goal
<theCore> popey, yes
<txwikinger> here it is far more difficult than in commercial technical support
<popey> txwikinger: agreed
<popey> especially when some new person arrives and gives duff advice
<txwikinger> there you can say things like we want to spend 80% of our time on 20% of the biggest customer or something like that
<txwikinger> Here the question is.. how far do you go?
<popey> before giving up?
<txwikinger> yep
<popey> thats tricky
<txwikinger> I know
<popey> depends on what kind of mood i am in to be honest
<popey> sometimes I will go waaaay too farr
<theCore> txwikinger, but also, much more important
<popey> spending maybe an hour or so on one ticket
<txwikinger> True.. and it probably will never be a strict rule
<popey> other times I will look at a ticket, and just close it because its too " hard"
<popey> we are human after all
<txwikinger> :D
<marianom> a goal will be motivating.
<popey> and we assume someone else will look at it
<txwikinger> popey: But that is fine.. we come with different skills and what is difficult for one person may actually be easy for the other and vice-versa
<theCore> popey, yeah, I saw many of these "hard" tickets
<theCore> also saw, many of these "just google" tickets
<txwikinger> Or sometimes it is not hard, but people wanting every single step because they are too lazy to read the docu
<popey> theCore: :(
<txwikinger> which is fine to an extent, but there is a point where it goes too far
<popey> i have in the past spoken to people personally about the support they give
<theCore> txwikinger, then, this is where the documentation is useful for us
<popey> emailing or IM'ing them to ask them to be a bit more considerate
<txwikinger> theCore: true
<popey> maybe if we had a wiki page, we could direct new support people to it?
<popey> so it is less of a personal attack and more of a "hey, welcome to support, check out this, it's our manual!"
<txwikinger> good idea
<popey> need to make sure we don't ALL spam the newbies though ;)
<marianom> do we "maybe" need a few rules like in ubuntuforums?
<popey> definately
<popey> not rules, guidelines
<theCore> yes, I think we could use the Ubuntu Nun team guidelines, as a template
<popey> rules is too strong in my opinion
<marianom> no RTFM and stuff
<popey> definately no rtfn
<marianom> ok, guidelines.
<popey> er, m
<txwikinger> Doesn't the CoC cover that?
<popey> you get kicked from #ubuntu for saying that!
<popey> !rtfm
<ubotu> Words like noob, jfgi, stfu or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
<theCore> txwikinger, roughly
<popey> see
<marianom> upps
<marianom> the machines....
<theCore> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines
<theCore> they got some good stuff there
<popey> is that team/project still active?
<theCore> yes
<theCore> they are doing #ubuntu-classroom
<popey> ooo when?
* popey checks
<popey> hmm, cant see it
<theCore> however, I think they're having problems finding "teachers"
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek as part of that?
<theCore> I am not sure
<theCore> anyway...
<theCore> I think maybe rewarding support people with some sort of recognition would encourage more people in
<popey> they get karma
<theCore> yeah, but that's only on lp
<theCore> would it possible to do something similar for #ubuntu and the Ubuntu-users list?
<popey> we could use mls to create a "top contributors" list for the mailing list
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MailingListStats like that
<marianom> ummm, there's people helping everywhere and they do it like us, because they can. I think the problem is that answer tracker is not as known as others
<theCore> marianom, perhaps
<popey> agreed
<popey> i not some people dont realise that the answer tracker isnt realtime either
<theCore> maybe, it's just because people like IRC and the ML better?
<txwikinger> IRC is good for a dialog, the answer tracker is good for statistical analysis if it gets enhanced a little
<txwikinger> and as knowledge db
<Treenaks> txwikinger: only if you can also edit the questions a bit
<popey> i believe they are planning to add a feature to the answer tracker whereby they show "trusted" users or known "experts" with a symbol next to their name, like the coffee beans in the forum
<Treenaks> txwikinger: Some of the questions are just plain weird (no offence..), mostly because the author isn't a native English speaker
<theCore> popey, that would be great
<txwikinger> Treenaks: I refer more to the answers
<Treenaks> or doesn't understand the first bit about using his computer ('what's clicking?')
<Treenaks> txwikinger: oh ok :)
<theCore> so, what do you think of the Ubuntu-user mailing list?
<marianom> I think that if Answer Tracker can make a difference compared to other souces is that it can be use as a valid sample of what's people need to know. as txwikinger says.
<theCore> ever, done support on it?
<popey> i unsubscribed from -user, too high traffic volume
<theCore> popey, I did too
<marianom> I'm not there.
<theCore> and if we did, I wonder who would not
<Treenaks> I unsubscribed from -user a long time ago -- I do keep up with the local list (ubuntu-nl) though
<Treenaks> lots of great people there :)
<popey> :)
<txwikinger> Would it make sense to somehow have questions from the mailing list go to the answer tracker?
<popey> aaaartgh
<marianom> I'm helping in my country mailing list
<popey> that would be horrid in my opinion
<Treenaks> txwikinger: how would you know what messages are questions, and which ones are answers?
<popey> my worry is that when/as the support tracker gets more popular, the quality of service goes down
<txwikinger> you could do it like bugs.debian
<popey> not up
<popey> but the support tracker effectively already is a mailing list
<popey> if you subscribe to it you get every question and answer in the mail
<theCore> popey, that's why we some base guidelines
<marianom> yeah, and more than 200? mails a day
<txwikinger> popey: I agree with that. What I am looking for is that people can use both technologies within one structure
<theCore> txwikinger, I not sure if it would be a good idea, either
<theCore> I am not*
<txwikinger> but maybe it is more trouble then it is worth
<theCore> I think the best thing, is splitting the support lists into local groups
<popey> mailing list has a lot of discussion, which I dont think is appropriate on the answer tracker
<theCore> popey, yeah
<popey> answer tracker should be, Q, A, A, A, not Q, and then loads of off topic ramblings
<theCore> I don't mean to make it disappear
<txwikinger> right. maybe the better solution to make the answer tracker more know but with its specific purpose
<txwikinger> so the discussions stay in the ml
<txwikinger> more known
<popey> agree
<theCore> +1
<popey> as I say, I'll be pimping the answer tracker on wednesday with Francis Lacoste - the developer
<txwikinger> I have already told people in kubuntu-org.de about it and at least one person started to answer questions in German
<theCore> I wonder how many questions are asked in a language other than English
<marianom> that's a point. for example there's questions in castilian and portuguese that I can't answer them. would it be valid if I translate them so anyone can pick and answer? and the translate the answer too
<txwikinger> the languages I subsscribe to I would say about 3-5%
<marianom> yeap, I saw 10 questions tops in a month. not more than that.
<txwikinger> but I know that a lot of German ubuntu users are more comfortable if they can have a dialogue in German
<txwikinger> so a lot of that support happens in the local groups I guess
<marianom> I imagine users that ask question ion the tracker and not in english is because they don't know where to go. even lp in in english only
<txwikinger> IS that a new localisation task ?
<theCore> I think encouraging local support groups more, could solve some of the email volume problems with Ubuntu-users we have.
<theCore> that is somehow more rewarding to help someone from your region, than someone from the other side of the globe
<txwikinger> Don't know about that, but often it is a matter of the ability to communicate with each other
<popey> language barrier?
<txwikinger> yep
<txwikinger> I am located in UK, but I help out in Germany :)
<theCore> so, maybe http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists could point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
<theCore> however, not all LocoTeam provides support on their list
<popey> some actively discourage it
<theCore> but some even puts "Provides Local Support: YES!" in bold :)
<popey> pushing people towards the "official" support channels, like #ubuntu
<theCore> popey, why?
<txwikinger> theCore: I think sometimes it is a matter of manpower
<theCore> anyway... we are out of time
<theCore> txwikinger, yeah, that would make some sense
<theCore> btw, how about creating a IRC channel for the helpteam ?
<popey> theCore: because you get more eyeballs and braincells in the official support channels than you do in loco team channels/mailing lists
<theCore> popey, true
<popey> an irc channel with a bot that announced new support tickets would be neat
<marianom> I agree
<txwikinger> popey: +1
<theCore> +1 too
<marianom> +1
<popey> this has been reported as a bug AIUI
<popey> they are waiting for some functionality in launchpad which exposes answers text via some API or something :)
<popey> they they said you should be able to go Answers 1234 in the same way you can say bug 1
<ubotu> Malone bug 1 in jl "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<popey> and the bot pop up
<theCore> :)
<txwikinger> what's the problem.. both is lp, isn't it?
<Treenaks> txwikinger: bots don't code themselves (yet)
<popey> the answers system is separate from bugs
<popey> they are aware of it at least
<theCore> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+ticket/3490
<popey> hehe, i reported that :)
<theCore> ok, I need to go
<txwikinger> cya theCore
<txwikinger> DO we want to have a follow-up meeting? or something regular?
<marianom> is there a todo list for this meeting?
<theCore> txwikinger, yes
<theCore> marianom, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SupportTeam/Agenda
<theCore> I will start on the list, later today
<theCore> cya all, and thanks for coming
<marianom> thanks theCore
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00 UTC: Mozilla Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-04-22
<popey> @schedlue
<popey> er
<popey> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 25 Apr 20:00: Edubuntu | 26 Apr 20:00: MOTU | 26 Apr 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 01 May 18:00: Mozilla Team
<yharrow_mobile> y
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-14
<gcleric> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 14 2008, 16:37:08 - Next meeting: Community Council in 18 hours 22 minutes
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Apr 11:00 UTC: Community Council | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-15
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 17 Apr 07:00: Server Team | 24 Apr 07:00: Server Team | 01 May 07:00: Server Team
 * Hobbsee sighs
<Hobbsee> may we have a long, long, meeting, as i'm at work still, by then, and last i checked, i'm on the agenda too.
<Hobbsee> although people might have fun complaining about me and others while we're not here.
<emma> .
<Hobbsee> ..
<RoAkSoAx> ... xD
<rm-rf_c\windows> Good Day
<jpatrick> rm-rf_c\windows: hi
<Iulian> Hey
<Mez> @agenda
<Mez> !agenda
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about agenda - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
 * Amaranth looks around
 * Syntux looks around too 
 * Iulian hides
 * techno_freak pokes his head
 * nand throws snowballs
 * Syntux tick tok tick tok 
<Iulian> nand: snowballs? from where? :P
<Amaranth> Still have 5 minutes
<nand> my fridge! I have kept them for this occasion :)
<viperhoot> hello, also I appear like candidate :)
<Syntux> viperhoot,  I vote yes for you! May the might penguin bless you boy
<Iulian> nand: Hahah, cool.
<Technoviking> morning all
<viperhoot> Syntux: thanks!
<Iulian> Hey Technoviking
<gouki> corenominal: good luck buddy! :D
<corenominal> gouki: thanks, I'm going to need it :)
<Syntux> gouki, huh! he's not your only buddy here
<gouki> Syntux: :D
<popey> corenominal: naaaaah
<viperhoot> 2 minutes ^^
<corenominal> hey popey :)
 * Syntux counting down
<highvoltage> ooh, CC time.
 * hubuntu wondering if we will get to the bottom of the list.... ;)
<dholbach> hiya
 * popey hides from dholbach 
<Iulian> Hello dholbach!
<jpatrick> hi dholbach :)
<gouki> hubuntu: Hope so :S I have to leave in 1 hour.
 * dholbach just pinged sabdfl and elmo
<viperhoot> hubuntu: Many candidates :S
<viperhoot> gouki: me too :S
<Syntux> So many candidates so little time
<nand> ubuntu is just too popular
<hubuntu> ;)
 * Syntux wonders how they are going to sort that list
<popey> Syntux: they generally start at the top
<Amaranth> I have a feeling they won't all make it though
 * xivulon suggests inverse alphabetical order
<dholbach> seems that elmo will spend his day in the data center today, so no elmo :-/
<Amaranth> sounds...fun
<gouki> :)
<nand> :)
<Daviey> dholbach: no excuse, surely they have rack VDU's in the datacentre :)
<Syntux> wohha so I'm the forth
<Technoviking> dholbach: fyi, I only have two hours this morning
<viperhoot> 11:06 :S
<dholbach> hey sabdfl
<Technoviking> sabdfl: morning Mark
<dholbach> sabdfl: today it's you, Technoviking and me
<sabdfl> hello, all
<gouki> Hi Mark!
<Technoviking> dholbach: thought Matthew could make it?
<sabdfl> hi Technoviking - new nick?
<Technoviking> sabdfl: yeah
<Syntux> mixing Techno with viking
<dholbach> Technoviking: no, he's at work
<Syntux> interesting
 * Pelo waves sabdfl hello
<dholbach> door bell, brb
<sabdfl> alright, agenda for the day does not include membership applications
 * popey runs away from dholbachs front door
<Syntux> ops
<Amaranth> sabdfl: I don't think there is an agenda then
<Technoviking> weird the Ubuntu wiki is a blank page???
<popey> Technoviking: works here
<sabdfl> we have agreed to delegate those to regional teams, and i'd like to know where we are on setting up those groups
<sabdfl> Amaranth: there is an IRC ops issue that has been raised
<Amaranth> sabdfl: Not all parties are present
<popey> sabdfl: the person who reported it is unavailable
<sabdfl> also, we should establish the status on the streamlined membership proposal
<Seeker`> sabdfl: Due to the short notice given, the person who raised the point on the agenda is not available today
<Mirv> oh, no applications handling, ok.
<sabdfl> how much notice were they given?
<Amaranth> About 24 hours
<Seeker`> The meeting was announced approximately 19 hours ago
<Technoviking> sabdfl: I think we just need to hear back from Corey and Mako on the regional teams
<Syntux> less than 24 hours here.
<dholbach> sabdfl: regarding the regional membership boards, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval was agreed on, suggestions for the initial boards were sent to the CC and some CC members still need to send in their vote
<gouki> Is there documentation on the regional teams delegation of members?
<gouki> Sorry! :S
<sabdfl> dholbach: have we agreed to a schedule of regular CC meetings?
<sabdfl> i think the only way this will work is if we fix the schedule in advance
<dholbach> sabdfl: I suggested meeting times every two weeks and there was general agreement on it
<Technoviking> dholbach: +1
<sabdfl> ok. will we alternate times?
<dholbach> My suggestion was 11:00 UTC 1st tuesday of the month and 20:00 UTC 3rd Thursday of the month
<Technoviking> sabdfl: yes, and days also
<sabdfl> that makes it more difficult for people to plan
<sabdfl> what's the rationale for alternating days?
<Daviey> different TZ?
<sabdfl> surely timezones are addressed if we alternate times?
<Seeker`> sabdfl: Some people may have commitments every teusday for example, so if they cant make the 2000 Thursday one due to the timezoen being wrong
<dholbach> the fridge calendar is down currently - I think the days were changed due to conflict with the TB, but I'm not sure
<dholbach> sabdfl: those meeting times had the best chance of CC members being available
<sabdfl> i would far prefer a fixed day of the week, every two weeks, at two different times
<dholbach> I'm happy with having both on tueday - I can gather feedback from all council members for 1st Tue 11:00 UTC, 3rd Tue 20:00 UTC if you like
<sabdfl> dholbach: ok, thanks
<dholbach> np
<sabdfl> we will defer the IRC issue till the next meeting, please give paladine the appropriate notice
<dholbach> I'll do that too
<sabdfl> let's discuss the regional team councils
<sabdfl> or, membership councils
<dholbach> sabdfl: are there any open items that you'd like to discuss specifically?
<sabdfl> no, +1 on the proposed list of initial board members
<Technoviking> +1 here also
<sabdfl> dholbach: is that a full round of responses?
<dholbach> let me check
<dholbach> sabdfl: mdke voted with +1 too, elmo and mako did not vote yet
<dholbach> I'm happy with the list also
<gouki> dholbach: Do you mind telling where we can find the list of proposed board members?
<Technoviking> dholbach: Corey did not also
<dholbach> Technoviking: you're right
<dholbach> gouki: the list was not announced publicly, as it was not fully decided upon yet
<gouki> dholbach: OK. Thank you.
<sabdfl> ok, i will respond to the thread, encouraging them to respond and giving the end of this week as a move-on date
<sabdfl> i think it's ok to publish the list
<sabdfl> any objections?
<Technoviking> sabdfl: none
<sabdfl>  - as a draft proposed list -
<sabdfl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7108/
<sabdfl> all trusted and proven members of the community
<gouki> sabdfl: Thanks
<christel> sorry for backtracking, i was just wondering if this irc issue is related to any of the many open ubuntu irc related issues that keep coming up over the last few weeks, iow. i am wondering if it would be at all useful for any of us (freenode) to be here
 * hubuntu thinks that members of the Spanish Speaking Countries should be represented too... MagicFab and/or Effie_Jayx are good candidates
<popey> christel: it's been put off till the next meet
 * hubuntu Means more members... <EOF>
<leogg> hubuntu, +1
<christel> popey: i know that, thus asking
<popey> ah, sorry
<christel> no worries :)
<elkbuntu> i agree with hubuntu.
<jpatrick> hubuntu: +1 from me too
<dholbach> sabdfl: not meaning to change the topic, but I suggest the same move-on-date for the loco council
<sabdfl> dholbach: +1
<dholbach> sabdfl: do you want to follow up on the thread or shall I do that?
<Technoviking> +1 here also
<sabdfl> christel: it would be great to have some freenode representation
<sabdfl> we want to make sure we are doing things properly, by ubuntu and freenode guidelines
<christel> sabdfl: ok, i will try pencil it in, when i work out if it's a tuesday or a thursday! :)
<sabdfl> dholbach: i'm trying to find the loco council thread!
<dholbach> sabdfl: "LoCo Council Nominations List - Please choose!"
 * coolbhavi thinks that Indian members should also be on the board
<techno_freak> coolbhavi, --> Sri Ramdoss M
<coolbhavi> techno_freak yes
<sabdfl> dholbach: +1 from me on the initial proposed 5 that jono submitted
<sabdfl> is that a full round of +1?
<Technoviking> sabdfl: no elmo
<jsgotangco> wow a CC i finally caught one :)
<juliux> hey jsgotangco
<sabdfl> howdy jsgotangco
<dholbach> hi jsgotangco :)
<sabdfl> dholbach: please move on, record elmo as an abstention
<dholbach> sabdfl: OK
<sabdfl> alright, so we have a shiny new loco council, and by friday I expect we will have regional membership boards in place
<sabdfl> so this group can focus on community structure and governance issues
<gouki> This is just my opinion, but I believe that, since most of people here were counting on the membership discussion, we should do that and implement the LoCo CC for the next meeting.
<sabdfl> yay! \o/
<dholbach> that's excellent :-)
<sabdfl> well done dholbach and thanks to jono for doing the background work and corralling us to this point
<dholbach> I'd like to suggest that we make "Updating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReport" a fixed agenda item - we've been quite bad at keeping it up to date
<sabdfl> good point
<dholbach> and I'll do it for this meeting
<sabdfl> thanks you again, daniel
<sabdfl> Seeker`: are you satisfied that a regular meeting will address your concern about notice for CC meetings?
<Seeker`> sabdfl: Yes, thank you
<sabdfl> ok. PriceChild, is the IRSeek decision you linked to related to Paladine's concerns?
<juliux> sabdfl, can you publish a list of the members of the loco council?
<PriceChild> sabdfl: That decision was made some time ago, and i thought it might be useful to add it onto the end of his agenda item... seen as its our decision he is questioning.
<sabdfl> ok, thanks PriceChild
<PriceChild> Gives a little background
<sabdfl> juliux: the nominations are:
<sabdfl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7111/
<gouki> juliux: already did.
<juliux> sabdfl, thxs
<sabdfl> actually, those are confirmed as of today :-)
<popey> erk!
<popey> (in a good way)
<sabdfl> :-)
<sabdfl> we have a loco proposal in the agenda, but i suggest we delegate that to the new loco council
<dholbach> yes, that makes perfect sense
<sabdfl> ok.
<juliux> good idea;)
<popey> nicely done :)
<sabdfl> from now on, we'll shoot for a CC meeting every two weeks that takes less than an hour
<Syntux> The loCo proposal in the agenda wasn't added by Jono as it supposed to happen.
<sabdfl> thank you ALL!
<sabdfl> any other business?
<popey> sabdfl: do the loco council therefore need a separate meeting from the cc?
<popey> to do the membership stuff
 * popey wonders if "the hour before the cc meeting" would be a good way to guarantee it doesn't overrun
<Daviey> Would it be a good idea to have both meetings next to each other, especially as i would expect interested parties might want to attend both.
<andylockran> Daviey: +1
<dholbach> popey: I'd suggest the Loco Council team members meet to set up the specifics (wiki page, meeting times, etc) and report back with that
<juliux> dholbach, +1
<dholbach> and once all this is in place we can announce it on mailing lists, etc so people are aware of the new processes
<popey> groovy
<techno_freak> can i ask a small off-the-agenda question?
<Seeker`> techno_freak: you just did
<techno_freak> Seeker`, :)
<dholbach> regarding the Team Reports, I'd suggest that we ask all Councils to update them as part of their meetings
<dholbach> techno_freak: shoot
<techno_freak> dholbach, ok. when ubuntu CDs are freely shipped on a special request from a ubuntu loco team, is the team or any of its members allowed to sell the CDs (for more than the media costs)?
<Syntux> techno_freak, why someone would do that? to sponsor some other LoCo events?
<techno_freak> Syntux, it was said as a fund raising method for the team
<juliux> techno_freak, on the recepiton you get with the cds it said that a resale is not permitted
 * Pelo wonders how many cds the locos get in those shipments
 * hubuntu allowing to sell the CDs would be lying to customs and could involve more trouble for future shipping. let's make that clear once and for all: No ShipIt! CDs are for sale >.< period
<Mirv> also, I think it's against ubuntu trademark policy?
<techno_freak> juliux, exactly, but they tried to justify that they had to pay customs duty and it was only a fund raiser for the team
<popey> Pelo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingCds
<Mirv> (commercial usage of stuff with ubuntu logo without asking permission)
<coolbhavi> When will 8.04 CD's be shipped.. for 7.10 the ordering of cd's started 10 days before release I think....
<Hobbes`> How much does Ubuntu cost?
<Hobbes`> $0.00. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu are, and always will be, 100% free.
<juliux> techno_freak, don' t sell them, give them everybody for free and ask for a donation
<dholbach> I can see a lot of activity for future Loco Council meetings already. :-)
<juliux> dholbach, thxs
<elkbuntu> Hobbes`, not in countries where customs asks the recipient for money
<popey> haha, thanks dholbach
<Hobbes`> that's what it says on the shipit faq page
<gouki> dholbach: lol
<dholbach> sabdfl, Technoviking: what do you think about the suggestion to ask all team councils to participate in the team reporting?
<techno_freak> juliux, that's was the loco team does
<Mirv> techno_freak: it's important to specify that it's about asking for donations, not about selling the CDs as suc
<popey> dholbach: should we not have our own team reporting page?
 * Pelo is grateful for the info
<juliux> techno_freak, i think that is ok, in germany we did it the same way
<sabdfl> popey: yes, i think a separate meeting is called for, but feel free to set the time to suit yourselves
<dholbach> popey: sure the contents of all teams' individual team reporting pages are merged into the monthly team report later on
<sabdfl> dholbach: +1 on team reporting
<popey> yes dholbach
<sabdfl> and thanks for offering to do it for the CC this week
<dholbach> no problem - I can get in touch with the team councils we already have
<sabdfl> ok. i think that's all then. thank you everyone
<Technoviking> dholbach: it should happen, now I need to do the forums one :)
<gouki> bye everyone.
<dholbach> thanks everybody
<techno_freak> juliux, so its ok if the CDs are given free and those who get it are asked to voluntarily donate, but it is wrong to give CDs for money telling the money will go to the team's funds as donation?
<dholbach> Technoviking: hehe
<jsgotangco> heh
<juliux> techno_freak, yes, the cd it self has to be free, so you can get one without a donation
<techno_freak> juliux, ok thanks. i will cross check with what was really done :)
<juliux> techno_freak, so the donation is a option and not a must
<techno_freak> :)
<Mez> "donate and get a free ubuntu CD" ?
<Pici> and/or
<Daviey> Mez: you missed the boat methinks
<Pelo> how about a "suggested" donation amount
<Syntux> so the meeting is over?
<Mez> Daviey, I was eating chips
<juliux> lets discuss taht on a extra meeting "how to finance a locoteam"
<hubuntu> yeah, member approval and LoCo team related stuff will be handled ina new way form now on
<hubuntu> it seems hte meeting is over
<Syntux> juliux, I'd love to join such meeting, I have some experience with that
 * coolbhavi up for financing.. 
<shane2peru> when is the member approval going to be then?
<juliux> Syntux, i will announce it a the lococontact list
<Syntux> juliux, lovely.
<hubuntu> it will be announced in the LoCo contacts list and (I assume) in the CC Agenda in the wiki (which we all have a subscription for, right? ;)
<RoAkSoAx> I woke up 6am for the member approval T.T
<shane2peru> +1 RoAkSoAx
<Syntux> +1 RoAkSoAx
<viperhoot> +1 RoAkSoAx
<hubuntu> That's life....
<coolbhavi> +1 from me too
<Syntux> never fair.
<hubuntu> I have been so excited myself, but it doesn't help
<Technoviking> Syntux: I believe so, anything else dholbach
 * Pelo points to nickrud  he got up at 3am 
<hubuntu> Next meeting will be more local and the time more localized ;)
<popey> the loco countil will do our best to get a well publicised meeting up soon to crack through the outstanding membershpip requests
<nand> hehe, such motivation!
<nickrud> issue I was interested got postponed
<coolbhavi> hubuntu: hi, You are on LP answers team right?
<hubuntu> yeah coolbhavi
<hubuntu> how come?
<Pelo> ok have a good day folks, I'm off
<dholbach> Technoviking: no, we're all set
 * coolbhavi too is on the LP answers team under the name Bhavani Shankar who is a beginner answered to just 950 questions hubuntu.. :)
<Syntux> what's LP answers?
<hubuntu> LaunchpAd answer system
<viperhoot> it seems the meeting is over
<coolbhavi> syntux The answers tracker
<hubuntu> *tracker
<Syntux> I see
 * coolbhavi makes a correction to given answers to 950 questions
<RoAkSoAx> so, when is the membership approval going to be?
<popey> RoAkSoAx: when the new loco council schedules a meeting to do it
<dthomasdigital> Do we still keep ourselves listed on the CC wiki page?
<RoAkSoAx> thanks popey
<popey> for now yes dthomasdigital
<coolbhavi> popey so the CC wont decide ubuntu membership? Is this the summary?
<popey> we will likely move it to another page and put a link on the cc agenda page
<gcleric> should new information about the process be posted to the CC wiki?
<popey> gcleric: once we have it, yes
<Seeker`> popey: I thought that the loco council did loco approval, and the membership council did memberships
<popey> "Three regional teams will be created for approving new Ubuntu members, in the following geographical areas:"
<popey> was in the original design
<nbliang> is the meeting finish?
<Seeker`> popey: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StreamlineMembershipApproval
<Seeker`> Which appears to be seperate from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil
<Daviey> i was left with the impression there was now a LoCo council responsible for regional LoCo councils .. did i miss understand?
<popey> sorry, confused myself there :)
<hubuntu> a lot of internal information... but yeah, something like that ;)
<Seeker`> Daviey: The Loco council is responsible for making decisions regarding Loco teams
<juliux> popey, are you sure loco council will approve ubuntu members?
<popey> no
<juliux> popey, i think there for are the regional communiy councils
<popey> yes
<popey> :)
<Seeker`> Daviey: Specifically Resources, Disputes and maintaining wiki pages
<juliux> puhh
<juliux> popey, good luck on our side;)
<coolbhavi> popey:As a member of the help team I wanted to ask one thing... Is it possible for the ubuntu guys to make helpteam assign questions to each individual depending on their efficiency to solve a problem so that we can ensure better quality support?
<popey> coolbhavi: dunno - ask launchpad developers I'd guess
<coolbhavi> Ok is my idea/question valid popey?
<popey> coolbhavi: I don't know
<coolbhavi> txwikinger : your views?
<PriceChild> coolbhavi: you want to assign questions to other people?
<txwikinger> sounds too administrative to me coolbhavi
<PriceChild> I really don't think the people being assigned would appreciate it...
<coolbhavi> Ok.. PriceChild txwikinger thanks
<PriceChild> I think there's something somewhere about why you *shouldn't* assign other devs to bugs, I think the same applies.
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<coolbhavi> PriceChild: but it helps quality of support in my view.... In LP answers only the support contacts get mails and if anyone doesnt know the answer then it will get expired.. Ofcourse everyone doesnt know everything but our ultimate goal is to provide high quality support so users get their problem solved more quickly
<PriceChild> coolbhavi: still, I don't think I would appreciate you assigning an answer to me. If you think I might know the answer, poke me on irc or drop me an email? Assigning it, makes it look like I've looked at it, and am working on a solution.
<PriceChild> Sort of tells others not to bother.
<popey> i think that's one of the good things about lp answers - anyone can dive in and have a go
<Daviey> popey: thats the double edged sward :)
<popey> indeed
<txwikinger> remember.. we talk about volunteers here.. not a paid working environment
<hubuntu> coolbhavi, The answer system is not scalable. I got 32504 unread question... A better question is how we can get more people to help and better integrate the answer to the bug system
<hubuntu> And I have no idea of how many have expired (but the numbre is increasing it seems in my mailbox)
<coolbhavi> OK.... Thanks for your views and sorry if I had irritated someone
<Amaranth> hubuntu: Sounds about the same as the bug load then :P
<hubuntu> once the integration beetwen answer and bugs/projects  is in place it would be easier for project memebers to get involved iif they desire so
 * corenominal takes the opportunity to say a big fat "HELLO TO EVERYONE!" before disappearing to let the electricians turn the power off!
 * Hobbsee waves
<hubuntu> Amaranth, yeah i've seen it increasing from week to wek (translate the UWN so i keep track of it ;)
<coolbhavi> hubuntu we were thinking of a support school
<coolbhavi> :)
<Amaranth> hubuntu: Eh? There is already some integration
<hubuntu> we have many school and helping systems already (ubuntu-classrom, locos out there and stuff)
<Amaranth> I can convert bugs into questions
<\sh> assigning other people then yourself is a bad habit, regarding bug work and this applies to Q&A LP stuff, too
<hubuntu> yeah i know Amaranth I saw that in launchpad
<hubuntu> I agree with \sh in that, It's mbetter to make things available for people likely to get involved, but not assign to others directly.. that's just not the way it should be.. As mentioned before this is volunatry work :) Nobody can ush you to do ANYTHING you don't want to do! ;)
<coolbhavi> To get people involved in giving support hubuntu More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SupportTeam
<hubuntu> Amaranth, by that you add more questions to my question label in gmail ;)
<Amaranth> better than closing them as invalid
<coolbhavi> yes Amaranth
<hubuntu> Maybe we should just integrate all the helping systems better within ubuntu? Like the translation link in all apps, we could make an IRC channel link or answer tracker link.. I don't know, but we need a framework to coupe and optimize the support issue
<hubuntu> true Amaranth, but they end up getting expired in our side.... I won't argue though that it's the best possible option for the mmoment
<coolbhavi> hubuntu already done #ubuntu-helpteam
<coolbhavi> is the IRC Channel
<hubuntu> we send people str8 to the channel from the apps? is that integrated already?
<coolbhavi> No I think
<Hobbsee> tecknoviking is the new CC member?
<OgMaciel> hello
<hubuntu> hello ogasawara_
<hubuntu> hello OgMaciel
<hubuntu> hehe
<OgMaciel> :)
<cody-somerville> Hi
<hubuntu> OgMaciel I got a question for you...
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: shoot
<hubuntu> I'm thinking of creating a localized ISO for Spanish and Portug. speakers that works as an add-on CD, pretty much like the Edubuntu Add-on CD does from 8.04 and on
<OgMaciel> k
<hubuntu> and make a framework so others can use it for their own localization
<hubuntu> now, that sounds relatively easy if you think of reconstructor and such
<hubuntu> but it would be nice to implement this as a cooperation project between our communities..
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: so you're proposing a "lean" Ubuntu-derived distro with Spanish or Portuguese only?
<hubuntu> Now you've been into the wide Ubuntu community and the Ubuntu-BR team.. Do you think there's place for such a thing? I don't mean forking Ubuntu, just making a framework to create an add-on CDs for specific languages, regions, needs
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: technoviking is mikeb?
<hubuntu> no, the new Edubuntu needs an ubuntu desktop as the base system and is only an add.-on option on the desktop
<hubuntu> OgMaciel
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: oh.  Keeping nicknames the same is overrated, apparently
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: I'd say that maybe a package along the lines of language-pack-ISO would suffice...
<hubuntu> Yeah, it is easy to say when you have broadband access... MOst latin americans just do not have it and it is an issue for wider Ubuntu adoption
<hubuntu> I don't have the problem myself (living in Norway) but people in Ecuador (my home country) do
<hubuntu> and Many people from other areas in the Spanish community are interested...
<hubuntu> it's just a thought
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: if broadband is a limiting factor, a "stripped down" version may be the best alternative
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: I'm just thinking of ways to avoid implementing something too complicated
<hubuntu> but I don't want to fork Ubuntu... It's better just to be able to give away the ShipIt Cds and add an add-on option for localized issues (codecs, modem support, languages, etc)
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: another idea: using APTonCD to generate an add-on CD with the language-pack + codecs?
<hubuntu> I'm thinking of using the edbuntu CD as the base and go from there
<hubuntu> could be an option, yes...
<popey> hubuntu: I thought there was no edubuntu cd any more?
<hubuntu> niot as such, just as a desktop add-on ;)
<hubuntu> it uses a "normal" ubuntu installation as the base
<popey> ahh, the addon cd
<hubuntu> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/8.04/
<hubuntu> thanks for the ideas OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> I thought there was a CC meeting today (earlier)
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: sure thing bud
<hubuntu> there was.. want the log?
<OgMaciel> please?
<OgMaciel> that was a quick one then
<popey> OgMaciel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/04/15/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<hubuntu> there you are... :)
<OgMaciel> thanks popey
<popey> :)
<popey> hey OgMaciel are you going to be at UDS this time?
<OgMaciel> popey: I highly doubt it, unfortunately... I have no vacation days this year yet and my company wouldn't send me :/
<popey> thats a shame
<OgMaciel> tell me about it
<OgMaciel> I'd love to though
<OgMaciel> too bad jono didn't accept my nomination for the CC
<juliux> OgMaciel, does he give you a feedback or reason why?
<OgMaciel> juliux: none
<OgMaciel> no worries
<OgMaciel> all candidates so far selected will do a good job I'm sure
 * nixternal votes for OG! OG! OG!
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<OgMaciel> thanks nixternal
<nixternal> you know it homie!
 * OgMaciel slips US$100 bill to nixternal
<nixternal> w00t, I have money now!
<OgMaciel> hehe
<cody-somerville> :)
 * OgMaciel is so hungry this morning
<OgMaciel> our kitchen at work is well stocked with candy... coffee and candy? hmmm
<juliux> nixternal, give OgMaciel some money back to he can buy something for breakfast
<OgMaciel> hehehe
 * OgMaciel makes a pleading face
<jsgotangco> food is for the weak
<OgMaciel> ha!
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: you got that right... I'm sooo weak
<jsgotangco> lol
<OgMaciel> :)
 * OgMaciel had to skip breakfast to drive daughter to school
<jsgotangco> i actually do that everyday
<jsgotangco> :(
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: me too... but today we overslept
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<OgMaciel> there are only 3 people at work so far
 * OgMaciel could have stayed home a bit longer
<juliux> OgMaciel, who much your are normaly at work?
<OgMaciel> juliux: I start at 8 and work usually til 17:00
<vorian> congrats juliux :)
<juliux> OgMaciel, that sounds fair
<juliux> thxs vorian
<jsgotangco> what? you're not overworked!
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<OgMaciel> with 2 kids? hell yeah
<OgMaciel> and I have to put up with nixternal to top it off
<jsgotangco> it must be 8:00 till 24:00
<jsgotangco> including weekends
<OgMaciel> 24 hours on weekends
<OgMaciel> you know it
<jsgotangco> heh
<juliux> jsgotangco, in germany that is forbidden
<jsgotangco> juliux: i was kidding :)
<OgMaciel> :)
<jsgotangco> i work from home so sometimes i overdo it
<juliux> jsgotangco, only if you are self-employed it is allowed
<juliux> or if your are working for an opensourceproject;)
<OgMaciel> check
<juliux> jsgotangco, btw are you coming to uds?
<jsgotangco> no where is the next uds?
<juliux> prague
<jsgotangco> prague?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i mean no im not coming there
 * OgMaciel would love to go
<jsgotangco> i am sick of planes lately
 * \sh don't go, too...because of openexpo and linuxtag the week after uds
<OgMaciel> \sh is a busy guy
<juliux> hey \sh, that comes for me after uds;) two weeks only ubuntu;9
<hubuntu> can people just show up because its fun? Or should I really be a Dev to come?
 * OgMaciel has to go to the zoo with daughters
<OgMaciel> :)
<popey> hubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
<OgMaciel> hubuntu: I'd encourage anyone to go
<popey> "The summit is open to the public, but it is not a conference, exhibition or other audience-oriented event. Rather, it is an opportunity for Ubuntu developers -- who usually collaborate online -- to work together in person on specific tasks."
<\sh> juliux, well, I'm a lucky guy, my job involves  24h ubuntu duties :)
<juliux> \sh,  that sounds good
 * hubuntu have read the wiki.. He was just asking your personal opinion :) Is it ok with no programmers at a development summit..
<\sh> hubuntu, you don't code during those summits actually..you discuss ideas (specs) and someone will write a real spec, so everyone else, can do something with it...first thing: he/she understands what's all about the spec, so for this, you don't need to be a developer
 * cody-somerville wonders why they always schedule the CC meetings for a time where he'll be in transit, hehe.
<\sh> spec reviewing is a important task during those summits...and it's really hard to read all those stuff, without turning on your brainmachine ;)
 * Hobbsee thinks the CC meeting is over?
<popey> yes Hobbsee
<nalioth> Hobbsee: been over quite a while
<Hobbsee> ahh
 * hubuntu thanks \sh for his asnwers.. I'll see if my colleague wants (and my exams allow) me to go... It would be fun, indeed
<Seeker`> Hobbsee: The main body of the agenda wasn't covered, and they aren't approving members any more
<Hobbsee> Seeker`: expected them to do memberships or something, seeing as there is a metric ton of them
<Seeker`> Hobbsee: it has been delegated to the new streamlined membership approval groups
<Hobbsee> hurrah
<\sh> which means, MC could approve members without consulting the CC?
<Seeker`> \sh: yes
<\sh> good news
<OgMaciel> I had even created my special "Approved" stamp for the occasion
<Seeker`> \sh: for the first 6 months, a member of the CC will have to "approve" the MC decisions, afaik
<hubuntu> And LoCo teams will be approved by the LoCo council? Am I right?
<Seeker`> hubuntu: yes
<uyriry686> www.HOTTIES4FREE.tk XXX BRUNETTES
<Seeker`> !ops uyriry686
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ops uyriry686 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<dthacker-work> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 15 2008, 18:42:21 - Next meeting: Server Team in 1 day
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-16
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 16 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<Serega> !now
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about now - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
 * ogasawara_ waves
<pedro_> hello hello!
<Iulian> Heya
<bdmurray> Hi
 * jcastro waves
<cgregan> hello
<davmor2> hello
<liw> heippatirallaa
<bdmurray> I call no fair
 * stgraber waves
<liw> heno, hejsan svejsan
<heno> hei paa deg liw!
<davmor2> hello everybody :)
 * ogasawara waves again
 * liw stops speaking in weird languages
<pedro_> liw: you can talk in Spanish and make me happy ;-)
<liw> pedro_, alas, it is not one of the languages I can speak
<heno> so today we'll focus on RC matters
<heno> #startmeeting
<davmor2> cool
<MootBot> Meeting started at 21:05. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> I believe the RC *candidate* images are being rolled as we speak
<heno> with OOo having finally built
<davmor2> cool is this OO.o ubuntu5 or 4 still
<heno> so now would be the time to start image validation testing
<stgraber> davmor2: I have ubuntu5 installed here so I guess it's 5
<pedro_> should be 5
<heno> but that's agenda point #2
<davmor2> stgraber: cool
<cgregan> I've got an XP and Win2k machine lined up for ISO now
<heno> [topic] Targeting bugs for testing with RC/Final
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeting bugs for testing with RC/Final
<heno> we have a few items under RC on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/FixValidation
<heno> but we should add more
<davmor2> birmingham is still an issue for number 1
<heno> what changes since the freeze should we test extra well?
<heno> davmor2: as in poor usability?
<davmor2> sorry thinking of the wrong thing
<heno> ogasawara: any kernel changes that are generally testable? when was the last kernel upload actually?
<ogasawara> heno:  it's harder to test some of the kernel bugs b/c they're hardware specific
<heno> right
<heno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-April/thread.html should be a good place to find things to test
<heno> It's rather a long list ...
<davmor2> afk
<pedro_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=3 <- could be a good place to look at it too
<bdmurray> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.milestone%3Alist=829&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.t
<heno> finally a manageable list!
<bdmurray> but an unmanageable url
 * liw votes for lzma compression for urls
<heno> I see gvfs has been updated - any good test cases to stress test that?
<heno> you have to click through to see when it was fixed though
<heno> pedro_: can you look at these links a bit and fish out testable items?
<pedro_> heno: ok will do it
<heno> everyone: please add key changes that you are aware of that need testing to that list as well
<heno> [topic] RC test coordination
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC test coordination
<heno> as the images turn up shortly I'll be tracking down testers from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/subscriptions to test
<heno> ogasawara, I might ask you to give me a hand as well
<ogasawara> heno:  np, let me know
<heno> we have been keeping a list of Canonical folks who have signed up for testing
<heno> this coordination is of course on-going in #ubuntu-testing
 * liw intends to show up in the morning and start testing on anything that no-one else is
<heno> [topic] RC and final bug watch
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC and final bug watch
<heno> bdmurray: do you have the pulse on bugs coming in via iso-testing?
<heno> I think triage efforts this week should focus on looking at new bugs to spot release-critical breakage
<bdmurray> heno: sounds good
<heno> I take it bug days are on hold for a while
<bdmurray> ogasawara and I have an idea for the 24th or 25th but yes on hold until then
<heno> can we ask the usual bug day participants to help with testing and critical bug watch instead?
<bdmurray> Yes, I was just thinking that and will do
<heno> ok, what would be the theme on 24th/25th?
<bdmurray> Looking at 2.6.17 (Edgy kernel bugs) since it goes EOL around then and we don't want them just closed
<heno> we may have a few bugs in from final, but also clearing decks for intrepid I guess
<heno> sounds good
 * heno looks at http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Plots/
<heno> about 426 open
<bdmurray> open what?
<heno> open 2.6.17 bugs
<bdmurray> right, duh
<bdmurray> we should be able to script some states but the "New" ones require real eyeballs
<heno> I wonder how many have later 'linux' tasks as well. those would be the easiest to 'close' (the task)
<bdmurray> Right, that's on my list of things to look at
<heno> great
<heno> [topic] Next meeting day/time - the scheduled meeting falls right in the release crunch
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting day/time - the scheduled meeting falls right in the release crunch
<heno> we should have a Final Release QA staus meeting, but the day before might be better
<heno> there isn't much more we can do on the Wednesday
<heno> nor is it out, so we cannot really take stock either
<liw> I'm fine with a meeting on Tuesday
<heno> any views on moving the meeting to Tuesday same time?
<stgraber> fine for me
<ogasawara> fine with me
 * jcastro nods
<pedro_> yep it's ok for me too
<heno> ok, we'll do that then
<heno> hey jcastro. did you want to ask about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep here?
<jcastro> heno: yep
<heno> I see you asked me about it
<jcastro> I have plenty of slots open for sessions, so if anyone is interested please let me know
<jcastro> and I can schedule you for a time slot
<liw> I already have a session!
<bdmurray> liw: just one?
<liw> I guess I could do another, if anyone wants to hear me rant heavily about software freedom and meatball recipes
<heno> cgregan: introduction to mobile testing?
<liw> cgregan, I encourage you to do that session, it is good for you (and fun)
<heno> 'good for you' doesn't sound pleasant :)
 * liw won't be doing a session on motivational speaking, then
<jcastro> heh
<heno> cgregan seems to have stepped out, but I'm sure he'll agree ;) davmor2, perhaps you'll help out with that session as well?
<heno> it often works well to have two teachers in a tutorial
<jcastro> I can pencil it in under "planned" and then track them down for a specific time if you want.
<heno> jcastro: yep, fine
<bdmurray> I'd been thinking an SRU verification how to session would be interesting
<bdmurray> However, I'm pretty swamped
<heno> we are hiring a full time SRU QA person (see Ubuntu employment page)
<cgregan> works for me
<heno> but I doubt that person will have started by then
<bdmurray> heno: I'd didn't think they be prepared to give a class in 2 weeks.
<heno> we could use the session for a candidate shoot-out though ;)
<jcastro> "QA SRU Deathmatch"
<pedro_> haha
<bdmurray> I thought the class might help generate interest in performing verification for any Hardy updates
<cgregan> heno: my connection is slow for some reason
<heno> I did that with GSoC applicants on the mailing list -- it worked very well :)
<pedro_> who is doing Universe SRU verifications?
<bdmurray> dktrkranz does some
<pedro_> we can ask them in case they want to do the session since we already have a few
<cgregan> please send info on the sessions...I would be glad to help
<heno> is there a specific team?
<jcastro> cgregan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<pedro_> i think they'd need more help doing it
<jcastro> cgregan: just pick an empty time slot and I'll write you in
<heno> ok, any other topics today?
<cgregan> Mobile intro?
<bdmurray> 'making the mobile device you've always wanted'
<heno> Mobile QA intro?
<cgregan> heno: yes
<heno> there is a general mobile intro session already
<jcastro> note that aoliveira already has a "An introduction and Q+A" for UME.
<heno> by Adilson
<cgregan> excellent
<heno> if there is nothing else, let's get back to testing images ...
<heno> ah, this just in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-April/000419.html
<heno> but I think candidate image testing starts nowish
<davmor2> back
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:49.
<RichEd> stgraber: hi
<stgraber> hi RichEd
<RichEd> is ogra around ?
<RichEd> cbx33: yo dude ? are you here in person or is that an unattended session ?
<stgraber> RichEd: he was an hour ago at least
<cbx33> I'm here
<juliux> evening RichEd stgraber
<RichEd> hi juliux
<stgraber> hi juliux
<juliux> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi guys
<cbx33> long time
<RichEd> stgraber: was ogra around as ogra ... or ogra-cmpc ?
<stgraber> RichEd: as ogra
<juliux> RichEd, stgraber do you want a edubuntu coffee mug? i will be at uds so i can bring them to prague;)
<stgraber> juliux: will you be at FOSSCamp ? I won't be at UDS
<juliux> stgraber, no
<juliux> stgraber, ist FOSSCamp befor or after uds?
<stgraber> before
<juliux> hmm
<RichEd> juliux: that would be great ... milk + spoons of sugar please
<juliux> RichEd, hehe
<juliux> RichEd, you can get is a the bar at the hotel;9
<stgraber> juliux: 16th and 17th
<juliux> stgraber, you are in ch right?
<stgraber> yep
<juliux> stgraber, i know some people coming from ch to the linuxtag perhaps somebody of them can bring you the mug;9
<stgraber> juliux: who ?
<juliux> stgraber, nightrose for example
<juliux> stgraber, emonkey also
<stgraber> ok, I'll probably see Carlos and the others on the 24th
<juliux> hm taht is befor linuxtag;)
<stgraber> argh :)
<stgraber> I'm really not lucky :)
<juliux> i will find a way
<juliux> RichEd, can i give you the mugs for highvoltage?
<RichEd> juliux: indeed ... he lives in my town
<RichEd> we are a beer meeting behind so i should see him soon
<juliux> RichEd, good
<nixternal> woo!
<nixternal> howdy you educational nut jobs! :p
<RichEd> calling ogra ... calling ogra ... are you here ?
<RichEd> who is that nixternal fellow ? some mad american ?
<nixternal> mad? I make mad look happy!
<RichEd> howdy ... is that some sort of john wayne imitation ...
<RichEd> or woody ?
<nixternal> either or I guess :)
<nixternal> they are still both my heros :)
<RichEd> okay ... better kick off the meeting while we wait for ogra
<RichEd> anyone with general news / questions ... UDS or otherwise ?
<nixternal> CHAPTER 9 HAS GONE TO THE PRESSES!
<juliux> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-school-support
<juliux> is there sombody who cares about this team?
 * juliux hasn't time for that the last month
<RichEd> juliux: cbx33 is listed as owner ... pete ?
<juliux> cbx33, ?
<RichEd> i know that Jim Hutchinson was full of enthusiasm last year ... he may add some life
 * highvoltage is here
<RichEd> hey highvoltage ...
<juliux> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey RichEd, juliux and nixternal
<nixternal> howdy highvoltage
<RichEd> you'll be pleased to know that a screenshot used in the CMPC brochure has Jonathan Carter as the learner in grade 3
<nixternal> heh, groovy!
<RichEd> you can add that to your CV
<highvoltage> what a co-incidence! I once was in grade 3!
<RichEd> best 4 years of your life ;)
<highvoltage> heh
<nixternal> hahaha
<RichEd> nixternal: are you happy with the chapter you put into the book ?
<highvoltage> where's ograkins?
<nealmcb> juliux, RichEd - yeah - Jim is still very active in general.  odd that that group has so many unapproved applicants....
<RichEd> will it be available for us to use on the web sites / wiki etc or is it copyright and for profit
<nixternal> not 100%, but it is cleaner....next edition == Chapter 9 rewrite and split LTSP from the chapter into its own chapter
<juliux> nealmcb, i can fix that;)
<nealmcb> \o/
<RichEd> nixternal: jim may be a good proof reader for the LTSP rewrite / revision
<juliux> cbx33, can we give nealmcb adminrights?
<juliux> if yes i will step down from that team
<nealmcb> I'd suggest Jim first....
<RichEd> he did a presentation session for Edubuntu LTSP stateside last year ... and is a teacher ... so he's a good target reader
<nixternal> RichEd: groovy...I am working with a local school on setting up an LTSP lab...so that will help with the writing as well
<juliux> nealmcb, all approved;)
<nealmcb> !!
<RichEd> nixternal: the presention was a lab creation in front of a live audience ... workshop them all (personal notebooks) onto the server in the session
 * RichEd will dig out the loco team news link
<nixternal> RichEd: that LTSP presentation was at Ubuntu Live right?
<nixternal> I either saw video, slides, or something about that
<RichEd> nixternal: nope ... colorado teacher / edu conference
<RichEd> gimme a min ...
<juliux> highvoltage, RichEd will get your edubuntu mugs at uds
<cbx33> juliux, sure
<nixternal> RichEd: OK, I remember something about it...no rush on that
<nixternal> hola pete!
<cbx33> hey nixternal
<nealmcb> next one is coming up this summer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TIEColorado08
<juliux> nealmcb, what is your launchpad id?
<nealmcb> nealmcb
<RichEd> http://coloco.ubuntu-rocks.org/2007/06/04/ubucon-boulder-it-isnt-hard-to-run-an-ubuntu-conference/
<nixternal> oh ya, ubucon, thanks
<nealmcb> :-)
<juliux> there will be also a ubucon in germany again;9
<juliux> and this time ogra has to come;)
<highvoltage> juliux: great. thank you!
<juliux> cbx33, i can't give somebody admin rights:(
 * RichEd tries again ... ogra .... ogra ... calling all ogras
<nixternal> Sorry, but ogra is currently unable to answer the IRC, please leave your name and number and ogra will ensure to delete this message and never return your cries. Thank you!
<highvoltage> heh
<RichEd> it's the final run down towards release ... he may be catching up on sleep after some long coding / debugging sessions
<RichEd> highvoltage: does your cmpc tend to hang a lot ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: nope, haven't seen that happening yet.
<RichEd> i'm running the april 02/03 dev release ... get a freeze more times than not
<RichEd> ogra suspected some bad ram
<highvoltage> RichEd: admittingly, I haven't used it while I was on holiday
<RichEd> Seveas: you guys on in 19 mins for a server meeting ?
<Seveas> RichEd, I'm not part of that team
<highvoltage> I think I'll catch up on some sleep. No news from my side, I can't believe it's release time already, time goes by too quickly for me :)
<Seveas> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 16 2008, 20:41:45 - Next meeting: Server Team in 18 minutes
<RichEd> ... it was every second week or once a month or something ... i see it is now on the fridge as weekly
<Seveas> @schedule Amsterdam
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 16 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 17 Apr 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 23 Apr 23:00: Server Team | 30 Apr 23:00: Server Team
<Seveas> server team seems to do weekly meetings
<nealmcb> yup - in 15 min
<Serega> /me slightly jumps
<juliux> hey Seveas
<Seveas> hey
<RichEd> damn ... not much time for ogra to appear & give us a tech update
<juliux> Seveas, btw how can i add an extra meeting for this channel?
<Seveas> juliux, mail the fridge editors
<nealmcb> hmmm - not at 23:00 utc - but at 21:00 utc now (was 20:00....)
<RichEd> juliux: there is a fridge channel as well
<juliux> Seveas, thxs,
<cbx33> juliux, who do you want me to give admin rights to?
<juliux> cbx33, nealmcb ;)
<juliux> cbx33, if he wants it
<Seveas> cbx33 as admin?
<Seveas> oh noes
<cbx33> what's his name
<juliux> RichEd, thxs, i will ask there because we need a regualr meeting time;9
<nealmcb> musashi?
<nealmcb> == jim henderson
<cbx33> hmmm
<juliux> cbx33, https://launchpad.net/~nealmcb
<nealmcb> he would be better than me for it - I just help there from time to time
<cbx33> nealmcb, are you a member?
<nealmcb> nope
<cbx33> I don't see you in the list
<cbx33> can you join
<cbx33> and I'll give yo uadmin
<RichEd> nealmcb: jin hutchinson ? jim henderson was mr muppet no ?
<nealmcb> oops - yes - hutchinson :-O
<cbx33> so you guys want admin to Jim Hnderson
<cbx33> right?
<nealmcb> cbx33: I'm not a member, and am stretched pretty thin already....
<nealmcb> correct - jim
<RichEd> cbx33: hutchinson
<nealmcb> :-)
<juliux> RichEd, next week edubuntu meeting is at lunch time right?
<nealmcb> https://launchpad.net/~jimhutchinson
<RichEd> juliux: depending on location ... but for you ... yes
<RichEd> 12:00 UTC
<nealmcb> oops - maybe he changed it...
<RichEd> https://launchpad.net/~jphutch
<juliux> RichEd, thxs, so we can hijack this channel next wednesday 20:00utc;)
<nealmcb> https://edge.launchpad.net/~jphutch
 * nealmcb is beaten to the punch
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<RichEd> anyone with questions or issues i need to get across to ogra when i see him /
<stgraber> RichEd: at this point I don't think we can still change much before final release, so focusing on ISO testing is probably a good idea
<zul> evening
<kirkland> howdy
<sommer> yo
<owh> Salutations
 * mvo waves
<nijaba> o/
<jdstrand>  \o
 * mathiaz waves
 * faulkes- waves
<kirkland> [o]
<cbx33> set as admin nealmcb RichEd
<cbx33> juliux,
<Serega> hi there
<RichEd> well we are out of time & serious topics ... so see edu peops in the channel
<juliux> cbx33, thxs, then i will leave the team now
 * RichEd hands the channel over to the server guys
<RichEd> --- thanks ---
<nijaba> thanks RichEd
 * mathiaz thanks RichEd :)
<soren> o/
<nijaba> the server guys will have to be quick today, other meeting in 1h...
<mathiaz> Hellowww Server Team ! :)
<nijaba> bonjour mathiaz (((
 * owh suspects that came with an accent right mathiaz?
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 23:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<owh> It's always good to know we're loved by the bot :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080409
<mathiaz> There was one action - and I completed it
<ajmitch> ah, another meeting
<zul> hey ajmitch
<mathiaz> the samba-server task will install libpam-smbpass
<mathiaz> which will keep the user password synced between samba and the system
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] server upgrader run with --force-overwrite
<MootBot> New Topic:  server upgrader run with --force-overwrite
<soren> ...how does it install itself into pam?
<mathiaz> mvo: could you give an overview of your request ?
<jdstrand> soren: pam itself is updated
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Apr 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 23 Apr 20:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<mathiaz> soren: there is an optional pam_smpass in pam
<jdstrand> soren: password   optional   pam_smbpass.so nullok use_authtok use_first_pass
<soren> Oh, really? That was easy :)
<jdstrand> soren: that is by default
<mvo> mathiaz: sure
<soren> jdstrand: Clever.
<mvo> this is about if we should run the upgrader with dpkg --force-overwrite by default or not
<mvo> the desktop runs with --force-overwrite, the server does not (currently)
<jdstrand> soren: well, and pam_unix.so is now requisite
<mvo> --force-overwrite will make dpkg ignore errors about missing Replaces: when files from one package travel into another one for exmaple. its unfortunately pretty common
<mvo> currently a overwrite problem makes the upgrade abort and the admin needs to clean it up manually
<jdstrand> mvo: how common is 'pretty common'?
<soren> Seems reasonable enough to me.
<mvo> I'm not sure if that is woth it, most admins will clean up by running --force-overwrite by hand and continue the upgrade, there is not too much that can be done else
<nealmcb> what is an example of a package conflict like this?
<mvo> jdstrand: our current ubuntu-desktop -> ubuntu-desktop upgrade from dapper->hardy has two file conflicts
<mvo> we are fixing them, but I'm sure there are plenty in universe left
 * jdstrand nods
<soren> mvo: What are the possible dangers?
<jdstrand> mvo: it seems reasonable to have consistent behavior between desktop and server
<soren> mvo: It's only really a problem if a file didn't actually move, but is in both packages, correct?
<mathiaz> mvo: right - so the question is whether server users should see an upgrade fail when they installed packages that are problematic
<mvo> soren: when we enable it? I don't see any real dangers, the file overwrite thing is recorded in the logs
<mvo> soren: yes, that is a real error then, I don't think we have a lot of those, most I have seen are transitional ones
<nealmcb> and people may need to get it from backup?
<mvo> mathiaz: exactly
<mathiaz> mvo: the reason to enable it on desktop is to avoid leaving end users in a state where the upgrade failed ?
<soren> mvo: Yeah, that's my feeling, too. IMO --force-overwrite is fine.
<mvo> mathiaz: yes, the reason is that on the desktop it may stop in the middle of a X upgrade and when the user panics and reboots his machine will not come up with X anymore
<mvo> and because it is silly to stop a upgrade because of this IMHO
<owh> Can we ask the user during upgrade?
<nealmcb> how does the script determine that it is a "server"?
<jdstrand> well, dpkg is careful so as not to destroy one's system
<owh> I mean it's not like a server is running X?
<mvo> seriously, there is not too much that can be done to fix it other than to either remove the package (problematic in a lot of cases) or to fix it manually with --force-overwrite
<mathiaz> mvo: I agree - I just want to make sure that --force-overwrite will only deal with missing Replaces
<mvo> nealmcb: we have a special mode flag in the upgrader, the server upgrade behaves traditionally slightly different
<nealmcb> and how do we expect the packages to be fixed?
<jdstrand> mvo: is it possible to have --force-overwrite by default, but have the option to disable it?
<mathiaz> mvo: At first, force-overwrite seemed more generic - it may overwrite anything...
<mvo> owh: unfortunately we have not the means for asking currently
<nealmcb> mvo: based on kernel version or something?
<nealmcb> or command-line vs gui usage?
<mvo> jdstrand: it can be added (and is probably a good idea). I have no switch readily available though (need to add code)
 * jdstrand nods
<zul> mvo: what if the users have x installed with apache and the likes?
<mvo> nealmcb: do-release-upgrade will default to server, update-manager will default to desktop, both have a --mode switch to overwrite
<nealmcb> ahh - got it
<mvo> zul: if he runs update-manager he gets the desktop, if he runs do-release-upgrade he gets the server one
<zul> mvo: ok
<jdstrand> mvo: IMO I agree --force-overwrite is a good default, but on a server it seems reasonable that someone may have customized packages/configurations/etc where they would not want --force-overwrite by default
<owh> mvo: That's not very intuitive I'd have to say.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: well - configuration files should not be overwritten with --force-overwritte
<owh> mvo: Does the user/admin get fair warning that they are doing a server or desktop upgrade?
<mvo> owh: I'm happy about suggestens to improve that for intrepid (too late for hardy, sorry)
<nealmcb> Can packages be automatically audited for these conflicts, or are they sometimes set dynamically?
<jdstrand> mathiaz: on no, force-overwrite doesn't deal with that AFAIK
<mvo> jdstrand: right, I will look into what we can do about a switch for this
<owh> Hold on, we're not talking about overwriting config files with --force-overwrite -- so the files that we're overwriting are poorly created packages - am I understanding this correctly?
<jdstrand> I was more thinking of a 3rd party or inhouse deb
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ah - so you think about someone that has a custom-build apache2 and then suddendly on an upgrade files are overwritten ?
<mvo> nealmcb: there is a conflicts-checker script in development
<nealmcb> :-)
<jdstrand> mathiaz: exactly
<soren> mvo: I'm not sure what --force-overwrite should force other than missing Replaces: ?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok - I'd say that if you build your own apache2 deb , then you'd probably test the upgrade
<mathiaz> jdstrand: and not blindly dist-upgrade
<jdstrand> ideally, yes
<soren> mvo: You seem to be suggesting there's another situation that that switch makes dpkg override (or force or whatever you want to call it)?
<jdstrand> I am just erring on the side of caution-- I agree it is a good default
<mvo> soren: you are the dpkg maintainer ;) I don't know of anything else too
<soren> mvo: Ok, good. I was trying to think of one, but couldn't :)
<zul> jdstrand: if you compile your own stuff then you should know to rebuild your own stuff
<mvo> soren: sorry if I gave this impression
<owh> zul: Exactly.
<jdstrand> that was just one example
<soren> mvo: No worries :)
<owh> zul: Some warning that your package got butchered would be good though.
<nealmcb> it all seems scary but I defer to the experts....
<owh> zul: s/package/files/
<soren> mvo: If there indeed was another I would have just made a new switch to dpkg to only force this situation.
<zul> owh: probably too late for hardy :)
<soren> mvo: That's why I was asking.
<mathiaz> mvo: ok - so if force-override is just about Replaces, it makes sense to enable it on server too
<owh> mvo: So, if you do the --force-override, is there a log to show you what happened?
<mvo> owh: yes, theere is /var/log/dist-ugprade/apt-term.log that shoudl show exactly what happend
<mvo> including the warnings from dpkg aobut file overwrite problems
<mathiaz> mvo: so it's a +1 for me
<owh> mvo: Well, then we can support them when they run into problems. +1
<nealmcb> this is force-overwrite, right?  not force-override?
<nijaba> I think +1 if we document this in the release notes
<owh> I agree with nijaba
<mvo> *cough* yes, --force-overwrite
 * faulkes- does as well
<soren> mvo: I think this is kind of like apport in some sense. We keep it enabled for most of the dev cycle to iron out the creases and disable it for the final release to reduce noise we can't do much about anyway.
 * mvo nods
<mvo> ok, thanks a lot for the feedback!
<soren> THanks for upgrading our servers!
<soren> :)
<mathiaz> you're welcome mvo :)
<owh> mvo: Thanks for the work :)
 * nijaba hugs mvo
<mathiaz> Let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review high priority bugs related to the Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review high priority bugs related to the Server Team
 * nealmcb hopes the editors can overwrite the override with overwrites ....
<mathiaz> so - rc is around the corner
 * faulkes- underwrites nealmcb
<mathiaz> ie - tomorrow :D
<nijaba> mathiaz: no, delayed to friday
<zul> mathiaz: friday now
<mathiaz> and final will be there next week
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok
<mathiaz> dendrobates wants to know if anyone came across bugs that should be targeted for 8.04
<mathiaz> make sure that they're milestoned in LP
 * soren goes to file bugs..
<owh> ROTFL
<nijaba> there are a few people reporting issues with kvm under heavy load.  Did we test this enough?
<mathiaz> nijaba: well - I'm using kvm to do my iso testing
<kirkland> nijaba: issues with vm clients, or the server?
<mathiaz> I ran into a couple of issue
<soren> nijaba: Hard to say, really.
<nijaba> server getting a lot of traffic
<mathiaz> soren: sometimes when the guest reboots kvm dies
<soren> nijaba: I have a few instances running "stress --hdd 3 --io 3 --cpu 3" and they're all happy.
<nijaba> soren: what about testing with apache for example?
<soren> nijaba: I'm not so much as it's slowing my machine down, but hey... that's what you get for torturing your dev box like that.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: really? I have never seen that
<soren> mathiaz: Sounds rather suboptimal. I trust you have a bug number for me? :)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: yop - happened a couple of times today
<mathiaz> soren: I was about to ask where I should look for more information
<owh> mathiaz: LP :_)
<nijaba> mathiaz: the test you did with dovecot, they were under kvm?
<mathiaz> and right now three of my guests are sutck on 'Booting from hard drive'
<mathiaz> after the install
<mathiaz> nijaba: at first they were under kvm
<mathiaz> nijaba: then I moved to real hardware
<nijaba> mathiaz: so I guess this qualifies to kvm stress testing...
<mathiaz> I've also come accross some issue with networking - when I add six guests running at the same time, bringing a 7th up - its networking would not work
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - that's one sort of stress testing
<kirkland> mathiaz: what are their netmasks?
<mathiaz> kirkland: /24
<jdstrand> mathiaz: we talked about the networking-- it may be bridge related
<jdstrand> I've not seen it
<kirkland> mathiaz: hrm, that's not it then ;-)
<mathiaz> I ran in these issues over the last weeks - but was chasing down other bugs - so I haven't taken the time to debug the issue
<jdstrand> mathiaz, soren: that said, I believe kees uses a bridged network, and he had 10 vms running concurrently yesterday
<mathiaz> soren: I've also seen libvirtd dying when I tried to load 5-10 guests at the same time IIRC
<mathiaz> jdstrand: OTOH the networking issue may be related to a dhcp configuration I've fixed today on my network
<owh> mathiaz: There would be some logs for the DHCP server to show that perhaps?
<mathiaz> so - make sure that bugs that are important are milestoned for hardy
<mathiaz> and if don't have permission to milestone them, msg me or dendrobates or another member of ubuntu-dev so that we can take a look at it
<mathiaz> we'd better spend some time looking at a bug rather than having one splipping unoticed in final
<soren> mathiaz: Dude, you need to tell me these things! :)
<soren> jdstrand: Yeah, I've had ~10 running at the same time too. :/
<mathiaz> soren: yes - I just hadn't taken the time to start debugging it
<nealmcb> soren: we thought the virtualization specialist was already virtually present on all machines....
<soren> nealmcb: I may very well be..
<nealmcb> lol
<soren> But admitting to it would blow my cover.
<faulkes-> sudo apt-get install soren
<owh> For those interested, I just jumped through the roof with a thunderclap right outside my window.
<soren> boom!
<nijaba> soren is watching you
 * jdstrand peeks inside his vms looking for soren
<mathiaz> so let's stop chasing soren in ours vms and move on
<owh> jdstrand: You know the little man with the hammer? - it's soren :)
<nealmcb> deep, below the microcode....
 * jdstrand actually likes thinking soren is inside my vms-- just a click away!
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Documentation Portal
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Documentation Portal
<soren> This is getting out of hand..
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's your brilliant idea ?
<soren> :)
<faulkes-> the stalker becomes the stalkee
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's using Google's Custom Search Engine technology
<nijaba> This is great stuff !
<kirkland> mathiaz: I've listed about a dozen ubuntu/launchpad/etc related websites which are given priority when doing a global Google search of the web
<kirkland> mathiaz: furthermore, once you have hits, you can refine your results
<owh> kirkland: I like when you search for 'samba', you get some google ads on the side :)
<kirkland> owh: for $100/year, you can pay google to remove the ads
<kirkland> owh: i'd think Canonical might do so, if we decide this is generally useful
<owh> kirkland: Me personally, or the search provider?
<kirkland> i thought about coughing it up myself
<kirkland> but figured i'd see if Canonical might first ;-)
<kirkland> mathiaz: now the cool part....
<kirkland> mathiaz: is in the "Refinements"
<faulkes-> I should note, I'm about half-way through a rewrite of the forum code so it provides dropdown -> jump to ability for the forum-stats stuff
<kirkland> mathiaz: once you have hits, you can click the little links over the hits and only search certain documentation providers
<owh> Ooh, nice.
 * faulkes- has been swamped with work lately though
<sommer> that is sweet!
<kirkland> there's a logical order that i've defined there
<kirkland> which is what I believe to be ordered from most-authoritative/informative
<kirkland> acutally, "authoritative" isn't the right word....
<kirkland> Manuals > Official Docs > Wiki Docs > Answers > Forums > Lists > Bugs > Code
<owh> WFM
<kirkland> i generally start with manpages/infopages
<kirkland> then official documentation
<kirkland> then wikis/community docs
<kirkland> then Launchpad answers
<kirkland> then forums
<kirkland> then mailing lists
<kirkland> at which point, Launchpad Bugs are probably next
<kirkland> and finally, down into the Source Code
<nealmcb> cool - seems like bugs might be higher
<kirkland> there are two weaknesses, currently, as I see it....
<owh> kirkland: Can you add packages as such a link?
<mathiaz> kirkland: that's great stuff !
<jdstrand> kirkland: cool!
<owh> +1
<kirkland> first, there is no authoritative site that indexes all Ubuntu Manpages that I know of
<kirkland> if anyone knows, pray tell
<owh> kirkland: No, but there is a debian package that does.
<kirkland> linuxmanpages.com seems to show SUSE (or maybe RH) manpages
 * owh forgets its name.
<kirkland> and yes, there is manpages.debian.net
<nijaba> goobuntu.com
<kirkland> so I'm working with cjwatson to put together a site of manpages
<nijaba> but not as nice
<kirkland> for starters, I built this: http://ubuntu.dustinkirkland.com/manpages/
<owh> kirkland: No, I mean, a .deb that indexes installed man pages and makes them into a website.
<kirkland> which contains flat text files of all manpages in Dapper - Hardy
<kirkland> owh: ah, cool.  we need that for Ubuntu
<kirkland> mathiaz: todo?  research that magic deb?
 * owh is just looking for it.
<kirkland> cjwatson had the idea to use richer text/html markup for the manpages, which would be quite nice
<kirkland> mathiaz: and then hopefully get it hosted on help.ubuntu.com somewhere
<owh> kirkland: man2html
<kirkland> mathiaz: and automatically kept uptodate
<kirkland> owh: nice
<kirkland> I'll rerun my script using that
<nijaba> search.ubuntu.com would be nice
<owh> Yes
<kirkland> it takes about 6 hours to do all of the distros
<cjwatson> man2html is a bit curious
<kirkland> i'll rerun with man2html tonight, thanks owh
<mathiaz> kirkland: that seems like a good plan
<kirkland> cjwatson had some more troffy ideas, i think
<cjwatson> as the groff maintainer I'm kind of leery of schemes to parse manual pages without using groff
<owh> kirkland: It's not the actual app that I was looking for. I'll see what I can dig up from my archive.
<kirkland> pardon me, groffy :-)
<cjwatson> but, I recognise that it might be a decent short-term solution
<nijaba> kirkland: so we should send you our improvement requests, right?
<mathiaz> kirkland: once the man page in html are online, google will pick them up and they should be searchable
<kirkland> nijaba: yes, please do
<kirkland> oh, internationalization is the other shortcoming
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - so that is a great idea IMO
<mathiaz> kirkland: you should get in touch with the documentation team
<cjwatson> manual pages are localisable ...?
<jdstrand> kirkland: this is really excellent idea
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, you have to tell google to index your site
<nijaba> well, if your index.html is available, loco could set it up
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'm sure you'll find a lot of interested people there.
<kirkland> mathiaz: hwere?
<nealmcb> kirkland: and what about all the code - is it in one place?
<nijaba> kirkland: actually, it will go faster if google finds a link to it
<kirkland> nealmcb: the code is one small HTML file
<kirkland> nealmcb: and the rest is in a Google Gadget
<nealmcb> sorry - I mean all the code to all the packages...
<kirkland> kirkland: i can add others to the project
<mathiaz> kirkland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<kirkland> nealmcb: oh
<nijaba> kirkland: talking to yourself?
<mathiaz> so let's move on
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, thanks.
 * nealmcb cheers for kirkland
<owh> kirkland: Dunno if you saw my question earlier. Can you add a link to "Packages" there too?
<mathiaz> kirkland: great work BTW ! :)
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] White paper proposal
<MootBot> New Topic:  White paper proposal
<owh> That's very nice.
<cjwatson> (with regard to localised manual pages, one of my specific concerns is that I've done a lot of work over the last year to cope with character encodings in manual pages correctly - it's quite a thorny issue for historical reasons - and I suspect tools that don't involve groff/man will get it wrong for non-English pages)
<kirkland> owh: sure, msg me private
<mathiaz> nijaba: ?
<nijaba> soren, I'd like to submit the idea to turn wiki howto into wp
<nijaba> so that they are more appealig to corporate types
<nijaba> s/soren/so
<nijaba> it would be a nice way to define that it has been validated by us
<sommer> do you have a list of topics?
<nijaba> well, my suggestion was to go to help.ubuntu.com and sort out which one would be fitting
<nealmcb> nijaba: what sort of workflow?  i.e. how to sync when further editing is done on either the wiki pages or the whitepapers
<nijaba> nealmcb: wp are not docs, they are just a way to tell people about great features and how to implement them.
 * sommer needs to read more white papers
<nijaba> so I would think that what counts is not how up to date they are, but how wide a coverage they provide
<faulkes-> I would have to agree with nijaba
<faulkes-> I can talk all day to manglement here, point them at docs but what gets hammered home most, is a good white paper, short, sweet, informative
<nijaba> but I think it would be a nice way to elevate some of the great how to we have and give them some public light
 * faulkes- nods
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - the idea is interesting
<faulkes-> exposure to drive adoption
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'm not sure if the content you'd like to see would be the same as how-to
<nealmcb> [reminder - kubuntu in 5 minutes....]
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'd suggest to contact the documentation team (again) ;)
<nijaba> mathiaz: it will have to be adapted to alway provide a high level overview
<kirkland> nijaba: i've some experience with this, i'll ping you later
<mathiaz> nijaba: and as nealmcb just said, we're running out of time :)
 * faulkes- has to head out
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - so I think we should define what would be the content of a "whitepaper"
<sommer> nijaba: I'm also interested in helping, just let me know :)
<nealmcb> is this a good uds topic?
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'm not sure it'd be as techinical as a how-to
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I think so
<nijaba> mathiaz: It needs to be two fold
<mathiaz> nijaba: agreed - that's why we should discuss what would the puprose of a white paper
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'd defer that to the mailing-list or a uds topic
<mathiaz> nijaba: but I think the idea is a good one
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
<mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  #
<nealmcb> I agree that a good set of white papers would be great
<nijaba> ok, so I'll try to push it forward
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<owh> faulkes-: I once wrote an article in 2003 about how to get Fortune 1000 companies to adopt Linux: http://itmaze.com.au/articles/cio/
<mathiaz> Same place, same time, next week ?
<owh> mathiaz: How did the bug for elmo go that we discussed last week? Bug 189616
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 189616 in dovecot "connection problems under load with hardy dovecot" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189616
<mathiaz> owh: I'm still looking into it - haven't reproduced yet
<owh> mathiaz: Was elmo able to provide more information?
<mathiaz> owh: not a lot
<mathiaz> owh: let's discuss that in #u-server
<owh> Yup.
<mathiaz> so next week, same place, same time ?
<sommer> +1
<owh> cjwatson: FYI: The other applications I was looking at for the man page to html were: man2html, dwww, info2www
<owh> mathiaz: +1
<mathiaz> alright - see ya next week and happy rc testing !
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 23:59.
<nealmcb> thanks all!
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<sommer> later on all
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 20:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<Riddell> Good Evening Friends
<Riddell> anyone here for a kubuntu meeting?
 * apachelogger_ waves
 * Serega waves
 * Jucato is
<neversfelde|mobi> evening
<etretyak> Hey!
 * jcastro waves
<nixternal> hola
<awen_> hey everyone
 * seele waves
<Riddell> seems like we have a quorum of council members
<Tonio_> hi everyone
 * Nightrose waves
<kwwii> hi
<nixternal> whoa, even kwwii! howdy kwwii!
<Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> let's start with membership
<Riddell> Serega: want to tell us about yourself?
<coreymon77> hiya people
<Serega> Riddell:  I can briefly
 * claydoh is here
<kwwii> nixternal: hey man
<Riddell> Serega: give us a couple sentenses on what you do and why you like us
<yuriy> hi
<JontheEchidna> Hi
 * apachelogger_ waves at yuriy
<Riddell> Serega: poke poke
 * apachelogger_ also waves at JontheEchidna
<Serega> I am software developer at QArea. I love programming. I am linux addict since 2000. Very inspired by community development and especially kubuntu project.
<Serega> I hope I will be helpful for it, because I want to thank community for this great OS
<Riddell> well, you already have been useful
<Riddell> Serega: where did we get to on the gdebi-kde changes?
<nixternal> Serega: what are you plans for future work within the Kubuntu community?
<Serega> Riddell: I'm stuck now on InstallProgressDialog. Looks like waitChild method is called to late for us, so GUI isn't redrawed.
<nixternal> also, thank you for the Kaffeine codecs btw...many people are enjoying that with Hardy, so great job!
<Serega> nixternal: to make kubuntu #1 OS
<Serega> :)
<apachelogger_> agreed, though I don't use kaffeine ;-)
<apachelogger_> Serega: why do you think kubuntu is awesome?
<Serega> nixternal: ah... that was a little bit
<Serega> apachelogger_: I have tried many distros during GNU/Linux usage and I can bravely say that "Kubuntu is the best KDE-based one". I enjoy it.
<apachelogger_> :)
<nixternal> Serega: what are those Ukranian painted eggs called? I had neighbors who made me some many years ago and I am tired of telling people they are Ukranian Painted Eggs :)
<Tonio_> Serega: what would you like to do for Kubuntu in the future, do you have plans ?
<etretyak> nixternal: Also ask about pigs fat in chocolate :-D
<etretyak> standard question for Ukrainians :-))
<nixternal> etretyak: I know all about that from a previous Kubuntu member :p
<nixternal> can't remember who it was though
<Serega> nixternal: :))) it's "Krashanky". There is a tradition to paint eggs on Easter
<apachelogger_> nixternal: you have to proove he said the truth :P
<etretyak> nixternal: it was me :)
<nixternal> oh ya, Krashanky! thanks :)
<nixternal> etretyak: ahhh
<Serega> Tonio_: I would like to apply my C++ skills, especially I love Qt/KDE api
<sahin_h> Serega: We have the same tradition (egg painting) in Hungary too. ;-)
<nixternal> heh, look what I started :)
<Riddell> getting off topic I think
<Serega> Tonio_: however I found pyqt is beatiful
<neversfelde|mobi> everybody is painting eggs ;)
<Riddell> I vote +1 for useful new feature hacking
<apachelogger_> Serega: will you eventually try to help upstream implement a generic codec installation for phonon in KDE 4?
<Tonio_> +1 for me too, based on great work on kaffeine ;)
<Serega> apachelogger_: lovely
<Serega> :)
<nixternal> +1
<kwwii> +1 from me as well, sounds like a very motivated person
<nixternal> no doubt
<Tonio_> Serega: we lack good coders so I really hope you'll continue the effort on hacking :)
<apachelogger_> hacking++
<Riddell> congratulations Serega
<nixternal> CONGRATULATIONS! Welcome to Kubuntu hacking Serega :)
<kwwii> and if you can do artwork, let me know
 * Serega blushes
 * apachelogger_ gives Serega a cookie
<Serega> thank you, guys!
<apachelogger_> welcome to the cookie receivers ;-)
<nixternal> ahh, just looked at davmor2's LP page...he looks like my uncle!
 * Jucato shakes Serega's hand vigorously until it comes off
 * Serega hugs apachelogger_
<Riddell> I believe davmor2 is next for membership, could you briefly tell us what you do in the ubuntu world and why you like us?
<davmor2> I like the *buntu family as a whole but for different reasons.
<davmor2> Kubuntu for maturity of apps
<davmor2> Ubuntu for continuity and easse
<davmor2> Xubunty for small footprint
<davmor2> KDE4 just for the ballsy new move.
<coreymon77> so, why do you want to be part of kubuntu exactly?
<balzac> i'm going to get an eee 900 and put ubuntu on it.
<Riddell> davmor2: pst, tell us what you do too!
<davmor2> I am one of the main iso testers so I try and pick fault with every cd that gets released across the board
<Riddell> he does more install testing than everyone else put together!
<davmor2> this means that Kubuntu's bug get tracked before the public get them hopefully
<nixternal> Riddell: I was going to say that
<Riddell> questions people?
<davmor2> coreymon77: I want the work I do to have some sort of permanence so becoming a member kinda seals it
<apachelogger_> hm, always this question pressure here
<apachelogger_> davmor2: what, in your opinion, makes kubuntu different from other KDE based distros?
<nixternal> davmor2: do you plan on venturing out from ISO hell and getting your hands dirty with anything else
<Tonio_> no need for me :) we need motivated cd testers, as very few cares and that's very important
<nixternal> I meant to add a ;) to my last line :)
<davmor2> Kubuntu is a pleasure to use the defaults seem nice.  I still think the Kde has too many bells and whistles for my liking over all but I wouldn't want to see it go away any time soon
<Tonio_> if no questions, let's vote no ? +1 for me based on great work on cd testing
<davmor2> so if I can help make it better that's all for the good
<Riddell> +1 on lots of install testing and knowing where to get the best pies in England
<nixternal> +1
<davmor2> nixternal maybe when I know more but testing 28 iso of cd and dvd takes alot of time :)
<Riddell> kwwii?
<Riddell> kwwii's asleep, we have enough votes anyway, congratulations davmor2
<nixternal> CONGRATULATIONS! Welcome to Kubuntu ISO hell davmor2! :)
<davmor2> :)
 * apachelogger_ gives davmor2 also a cookie
<apachelogger_> *hug*
<Jucato> hehe congrats davmor2
<apachelogger_> welcome
<nixternal> ya, I don't think anyone would have given a -1 :)
<seele> has anyone gotten a -1?
 * Serega handshakes davmor2
<yuriy> congratulations Serega and davmor2!!
<emma> Congratulations guys!
 * davmor2 handshakes all round :)
<apachelogger_> seele: don't think so
<neversfelde|mobi> congrats
<kwwii> Riddell: about right on that, just came out of the WC
<Serega> thanks a lot, friends!
<Riddell> people who aren't ready for membership yet are usually fairly obvious
<claydoh> +1 to both davmor2 and Serega
<kwwii> congrats davmor2 and Serega
<Riddell> so, agenda
<claydoh> oop :) congrats
<nixternal> I was in the wrong channel asking what the next item to cover was :p
<Riddell> "Post Hardy Plan"
<Riddell> we release next week, then merges are before UDS happens
<nixternal> Serega: ya, people have been denied years ago...but everyone in Kubuntu is small so it is easy to keep track of their work and recommend them to go for membership
<Riddell> so we need to decide on how to merge
<nixternal> if you are in Chicago, we are having a release party the 26th at Goose Island :)
<Riddell> notably do we keep KDE 3 as we currently do
<seele> for intrepid you mean?
<apachelogger_> Riddell: you mean in /usr?
<Riddell> I suggest we put kde 4 into /usr and replace KDE 3 apps with KDE 4 ones where available
<Riddell> yep, intrepid
<davmor2> Riddell: merging easy use one of the big painted eggs ;)
<seele> is kde4 going to ship default or are we going to have another remix?
<apachelogger_> I think, we should have a look at the developments in KDE 4.1 first
<Riddell> seele: well that's what we should decide
<yuriy> so pretty much remove kde3 packages where possible and don't ship any by default?
<seele> (i dont know if we can make that decision until July anyway)
<Tonio_> Riddell: there is also a hudge bunch of kde4 apps to package
<seele> Riddell: when do we need to make the decision?
<apachelogger_> if KDE 4.1 is going to messure up to the functionality of KDE 3 we should probably move it to /usr and make it default
<Tonio_> Riddell: that was what I was considering working on before the UDS
<Riddell> seele: since it affects how we do the package merges in two weeks time, soon
<awen_> when is kde 4.1 scheduled to be released?
<seele> considering there are no more updates for 3.5.9 we almost have to otherwise the distro looks stagnant
<seele> awen_: july
<JontheEchidna> July 29th
<Riddell> I think hardy should be our last KDE 3 release
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: we should get a squad for that
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: I wouldn't consider kde4 as default desktop before 4.1 is here and we can compare the functionnalities
<seele> i agree, but going for 4.1 without seeing it first makes me kindof nervous :)
<apachelogger_> yeah
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: what about bluetooth ? what about multimedia apps ? will k3b be there and ready ?
 * Jucato is mostly concerned about migrating/compatibility of config files between KDE 3 and KDE 4
<Tonio_> we are not sure at all
<yuriy> Tonio_: but 4.1 feature freeze is pretty soon so i think it's fair to compare pretty soon
<Riddell> Tonio_: kde3libs will still be there for apps with no kde 4 version
<Tonio_> yuriy: true that
<apachelogger_> yeah
<seele> Tonio_: 4.1 is in july and there will be 2 patches before intrepid
<Riddell> Jucato: that should just work, we'd move to using .kde for KDE 4
<apachelogger_> KDE 4 using KDE 3 apps where necessary
<JontheEchidna> 4.1 by default would certainly be an Intrepid move
<seele> or point releases.. whatever they call x.x.x
<Tonio_> Riddell: true, but I think we need to wait for at least feature freeze to be sure we can replace the default desktop
 * apachelogger_ agrees with Tonio_
<seele> wasn't feature freeze for 4.1 in march?
 * Jucato agrees with seele
<Jucato> er.. with Tonio_
<Tonio_> I was thinking about guidance too, we should get it replaced with pardus tools
<Riddell> Tonio_: Sunday?
<JontheEchidna> Hard freeze is May 19th for 4.1
<nosrednaekim> Tonio_: pardus tools?
<awen_> how do the configuration files match ... have anyone tried copying their .kde to .kde4 and booting?
<Tonio_> Riddell: what sunday ?
<seele> ah
<nixternal> awen_: works fine
<nixternal> oh wait
<yuriy> Tonio_: you're saying if a couple applications are missing we should keep the entire desktop to the old kde 3?
<nixternal> no, config files do not match
<Riddell> Tonio_: next sunday is 4.1 feature freeze
<Jucato> Tonio_: but isn't guidance being heralded as a KDE Python app to be put into kdeadmin or something?
<JontheEchidna> The 20th of this month only features on the feature list will be implemented
<Tonio_> Riddell: hum okay
<apachelogger_> nixternal, awen_: depends on the application really
<nixternal> so if you have konqi 3 and konqi 4, there will be issues
<seele> 4/20 huh?
 * seele snickers
<nixternal> I just did that last week accidentally
<yuriy> Jucato: afaik none or nearly none of guidance is ported
<Jucato> seele: can I have some of that snickers? :)
<seele> hehe
<apachelogger_> nixternal: we probably should talk to upstream to do something about that
<Jucato> yuriy: I thought userconfig was (for one)?
<Tonio_> Jucato: guidance is globally unmaintained, and technically very low quality compared to Tasma (pardus)
<Riddell> yuriy: I suspect admin tools will be a notable goal we'll plan at UDS
<Tonio_> Riddell: yep, that's a subject we have to discuss :)
<nixternal> well, I spoke to a couple of other projects, and not one of them have a 'merge plan' whatsoever..they are just merging
<Jucato> Tonio_: point. but are the Tasma modules kcm's like guidance? (I forgot)
<yuriy> Jucato: guidance in trunk has only powermanager, and  that hasn't beee updated in a long time
<Tonio_> Jucato: kcm modules, pykde
<nixternal> new motto: If it isn't broke, fix it until it is broke!
<Jucato> ah ok.
<Tonio_> Jucato: same as guidance, but more accurate, more complete, more modules available
<davmor2> off to bed now Thanks again everyone.  Long day tomorrow.
<yuriy> Tasma??
<Jucato> nixternal: sounds like Plasma? hehehe
<Tonio_> Jucato: and backend/frontend based
<nixternal> g'nite davmor2 and congrats!
<nixternal> Jucato: yup
<Jucato> bye davmor2!
<apachelogger_> nini davmor2
<Tonio_> yuriy: http://pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/masaustu/tasma/index.html
<Jucato> Tonio_: ah I see.. it's been a while since I tried Pardus (I like the cat theme :P)
<awen_> Tonio_: that sounds like something we need to look at
<Tonio_> they also have a wonderfull network configuration module
<Riddell> there is also one large and interesting suggestion
<Riddell> we could sync Kubuntu releases with KDE releases
<nosrednaekim> is it qt4 though?
<Tonio_> Riddell: I would love this :)
<awen_> Riddell: how often do they release?
<nixternal> hrmm
<seele> awen_: 6 months
<Jucato> 6 months
<Tonio_> Riddell: but is that compatible with canonical marketing plans and so on ?
<kwwii> very good idea
<seele> awen_: July and January
<apachelogger_> well
<yuriy> define "sync"
<neversfelde|mobi> wow
<Riddell> lots of questions and complexities we'd need to work out in doing that
<apachelogger_> currently we have the advantage that we don't get .0 releases
<Tonio_> would the base be table when we want to release kubuntu ?
<Riddell> it may well not be worth it
<yuriy> the current release schedule seems pretty synced to me
<Tonio_> Riddell: yep, is that to be discussed during the uds ?
 * apachelogger_ is not at uds -.-
<yuriy> with the KDE release shortlyt before kubuntu FF and a couple bug fix releases before the kubuntu release
 * apachelogger_ agrees with yuriy
<Riddell> it would mean releasing in february and august, using ubuntu bases from october and april
<Tonio_> Riddell: 2 options : releasing before ubuntu -> unstable distro
<Tonio_> releasing after ubuntu -> losing users, going to the first released one :)
<Jucato> I think we were only out of sync because of 3.5.x having longer releases, but it would be better if we released some time after a .0 release (as apachelogger_ pointed out)
<nixternal> well, if KDE 4.1 comes out in July, are they planning on 4.1.1, 4.1.2, 4.1.3, and such each month still or will those be every 6 months?
<nosrednaekim> I don't think that sounds like a very good idea.... It would be better to always have the latest KDe in a PPA IMHO
<JontheEchidna> Anyone considered kidnapping top Gnome execs to force releases in sync with KDE 4?
<Tonio_> Riddell: if it was a matter of 2 or 3 weeks, that would be different, but 2 month is not acceptable imho
<seele> nixternal: every month there is supposed to be a point.point release
<Riddell> nixternal: yes, monthly point releases
<seele> nixternal: 4.1.3 should be out by intrepid
<e-uoaphys> nosrednaekim: i agree. If you sync kubuntu to KDE releases then users are always getting an outdated ubuntu with their KDE desktop
<Jucato> so we'll be releasing .3 ones
<apachelogger_> what advantages would syncing with KDE have?
<e-uoaphys> It's not like ubuntu is synced to gnome
<Riddell> e-uoaphys: it is
<nixternal> I honestly don't think we should fall behind Ubuntu releases though, people will start complainging about kernel updates and what not
<Jucato> e-uoaphys: it is
<e-uoaphys> oh
<e-uoaphys> sorry
<Riddell> apachelogger_: first to latest and greatest
<Jucato> hm.. doesn't Ubuntu release 1-2 months *after* a new GNOME release?
<Riddell> 1 month
<sahin_h> Riddell: Ubuntu always released when Gnome x.y.1 out.
<Riddell> sahin_h: not always
<apachelogger_> Riddell: not worth it IMO
<neversfelde|mobi> what about 4 releases a year?
<sahin_h> Riddell: Ok,  mostly. ;-)
<Tonio_> yeah, one month is acceptable, but for kde, that's in the middle of the dev cycle..... big problem
<nosrednaekim> Tonio_: are those Pardus tools QT4?
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: that would slow down development
<Jucato> well, Intrepid will come out with a newly released 4.1.3. So in some senses, that still fresh :)
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: we would stumble from one freeze into another
<Tonio_> nosrednaekim: pykde3 atm, port to pykde4 is considered afaik
<yuriy> seems to me like .2 or .3 is exactly what you want in the release
<e-uoaphys> nixternal: i am where you are. right now ppl complain about KDE being out of date, if you lag ubuntu's release then instead of complaining about KDE, they will complain about other packages (kernel, etc)
<nosrednaekim> Tonio_: ok
<awen_> yuriy: just my words
<nixternal> e-uoaphys: exactly
<seele> what will the ubuntu people think of kubuntu breaking from the ubuntu release cycle. or will they not care?
<Tonio_> nosrednaekim: I'll contact developpers before the UDS :)
<apachelogger_> seele: is it their decision? :P
<Jucato> seele: some care, some don't. some like it, some think it's senseless :/
<nosrednaekim> Tonio_: ok, I MAY be able to help with that... depends
<Tonio_> seele: couldn't kde sync with kubuntu releases ?
<seele> apachelogger_: no, but if it is going to piss them off and make support harder to get..
<neversfelde|mobi> apachelogger_: why? two releases synced to ubuntu with a bleeding edge basis and two releaes with an old basis and newest KDE?
<Tonio_> seele: that would be much easier for us ^_^
<nixternal> Riddell: I think our current release schedule is fine considering we always upload the freshest releases of KDE to PPA
<e-uoaphys> if Kubuntu breaks from ubuntu cycle, then it will have to maintain its own repositories to enable it to be as up to date as ubuntu
<Jucato> Tonio_: heh that will be the day :)
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: eventually we need to apply to ubuntu freezes and ours
<Tonio_> Jucato: hehe
<apachelogger_> just pulling an untested unfreezed version is rather pointless
<apachelogger_> Riddell: maybe we should vote on this?
<Riddell> I'm not expecing a decision today
<nixternal> it is nice having KDE out for a couple of months before release..it allows us to catch up on bugs and stabilize things
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: that's what alpha releases are no ?
<neversfelde|mobi> apachelogger_: mhh
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: yeah, but neversfelde|mobi suggested to have 4 releases per year
<Riddell> I think keeping it as a discussion until UDS is best
<Jucato> when is openSUSE releasing btw?
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: that means everytime frozen, not acceptable though....
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: yeah that's what I explained ;-)
<Tonio_> Jucato: when yast stops segfaulting ? :)
<Jucato> lol
<Riddell> seele: you wanted to know about plans for new UIs and UDS topics?
<nixternal> Tonio_: gahahahaha
<Tonio_> Jucato: then they immediately freeze and release hopefully nobody touches the code :)
<e-uoaphys> wouldn't it make sence to just release the latest stable KDE for ubuntu as Kubuntu, and then make a commitment support the newest KDE's as they are available? (the one that comes with it is supported, the future ones are optional)
<seele> Riddell: yeah.. there were three big UIs that i could think of
<Jucato> openSUSE's releasing in June it seems... so that's quite far away from any major KDE milestone
<apachelogger_> e-uoaphys: that's how it is right now
<seele> adept, printing, and grubconfig
<neversfelde|mobi> apachelogger_, Tonio_: I am not very familiar with the release cycle, so it was just a question
<yuriy> e-uoaphys: i think that's pretty much what happens now
<Jucato> e-uoaphys: that's how it has been for qutie some time
<seele> but i dont know what their schedules are
<Tonio_> e-uoaphys: I'd agree on that approach.... I prefer a 3 month outdated kde but stable instead of a bugy desktop, which we experienced too much in the past
<Riddell> seele: I think printing we'll work more on system-config-printer port and try and get it to the UI you specced at last UDS for intrepid
<yuriy> seele: adept would probably depend a lot on whether ubunteros decide to go with package kit
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: just have a look at the release schedule of hardy, and search for freeze ;-)
<Tonio_> neversfelde|mobi: no pb :)
<Riddell> seele: mornfall should be at UDS so we can look at adept then
<seele> yuriy: is that something for UDS then?
<seele> ok
<Tonio_> Riddell: isn't printing manager supposed to be ready for 4.1 ?
<Jucato> yuriy: mornfall isn't interested in making it work with packagekit too?
<Tonio_> Jucato: that's mornfall, no way !!
<Riddell> and as yuriy says packagekit may suddely become usable
<nixternal> I have been playing with Qt + PackageKit
<Jucato> Tonio_: hahahah! :)
 * apachelogger_ would like that
<Tonio_> Riddell: packagekit will always have problems with debian
<Jucato> um... how about KPackage?
<nixternal> still a bit unusable, but rather nice...with Foresight though
<Tonio_> Riddell: simply cause it'll never deal with debconf
<yuriy> Jucato: i don't know what he's interested in, but it would certainly require a lot of reworking
<Tonio_> Riddell: they want absolutly silent installation
<Jucato> bah.. I just remembered KPackage depends on SmartPM...
<Tonio_> Riddell: that's not the debian way...
<Riddell> seele: and we should look at grub editor too at UDS, although it's mostly artemis's baby
<seele> Riddell: well if he wants us to we will.. it needs some work imo
<Tonio_> Riddell: it means that all of dbconfig and debconf based packages will not be packagekit installable
<Tonio_> Riddell: sad but true :/
<apachelogger_> seele: update-grub support most importantly ;-)
<Riddell> Tonio_: DEBCONF_FRONTEND=noninteractive.  easy.
<nixternal> seele: ya, grubeditor needs a bit of work...we put a couple of newbs to the test and they broke stuff
<seele> besides that.. there are tons of things in system settings that can be "fixed"
<yuriy> but getting adept-3 usable for intrepid certainly seems doable (the alpha kind of works, so..)
<Tonio_> Riddell: and how do you put the mysql admin password for dbconfig ?
<Tonio_> Riddell: you'll end p with unconfigured packages
<Riddell> seele: also admin tools we should look at the UI, depending on how we plan to do them
<Jucato> seele: System Settings KDE 3 or 4?
<seele> Jucato: 4
<Jucato> oh better :P
<seele> Riddell: yes
<Tonio_> Riddell: noninteractive is only for when there is a default option available, which is not the case for every package
<seele> Jucato: some are kindof sloppy and there were some style guide changes not reflected
<seele> Jucato: if you click through the modules, you'll begin to notice inconsistencies (well, i did..)
 * yuriy wonders why there's no modules analogous to mountconfig and userconfig in kdebase
<Riddell> yuriy: because guidance isn't in kde yet :)
<Jucato> seele: why are there numbers in the tab titles of the login manager, for example? :D
<yuriy> Riddell: i meant, i still find it surprising that guidance was ever necessary
<Tonio_> Jucato: but yeah, having mornfall working on packagekit would be nice..... I tried, so can you :)
<Riddell> as a reminder the specs I have for UDS are at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuUDSPragueSpecs, let me know if there's more needed
<apachelogger_> Jucato: too few people care about kdm
<Jucato> Tonio_: haha if you failed, so will I :P
<apachelogger_> ...as long as it works
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: true :/
<Jucato> apachelogger_: except for theming :)
<Tonio_> same as admin tools (knetworkconf sucks as hell)
<yuriy> Jucato: i mentioned that during a krush day. the answer was something like there are too many tabs to have unique letter shortcuts
<Riddell> any more "Post Hardy Plan" issues, or shall we move on?
<yuriy> which IMO is a problem in itself
<apachelogger_> Kiosktool is still not in KDE 4
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: yeah, but the kconfig/kiosk mecanism is still there right ?
<awen_> Riddell: was a descition made on the merge issue?
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: only the gui misses no ?
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: yeah
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: kiosktool wasn't up to date anyway
<apachelogger_> plasma doesn't really love kiosk though
<Tonio_> too many missing options.....
<seele> ok.. got to head out, linux chix is also tonight
<seele> l8r all
<nixternal> Riddell: on that UDS Specs page, what do the user names underneath each section mean?
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: I would love kde going gconf...... or gnome going kiosk
<Riddell> awen_: we can't continue to support two desktops, it has to be KDE 4 in /usr
<Tonio_> that would be sooooooooooooooo much better....
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: giosk
<Riddell> nixternal: people who ought to be there
<apachelogger_> like with giofs or how that thing is called ;-)
<nixternal> well I will be there via VoIP
<apachelogger_> nixternal: good plan
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: not having to set my fonts twice is a dream that may come true :)
<nixternal> no way I can get my passport and money in time unfortunately :(
<apachelogger_> some day ;-)
<Riddell> nixternal: the names are out of date
<Tonio_> as for the icon theme, and for everything...... :)
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: that should be possible soon as KDE now applies to the naming specs
<apachelogger_> or rather, it nowadays creats the specs ;-)
<nixternal> hopefully after this UDS I will be at the rest
<apachelogger_> oxygen proposed tons of names
<Serega> guys, I need off to bed. Good night! Thank you. You all rock! :)
<apachelogger_> Riddell: ready to move on I guess
<nixternal> g'nite Serega and congrats again!
<apachelogger_> nini Serega
<awen_> nn Serega
<Riddell> Pre-Hardy then, what still needs done
<Riddell> lots of install testing tomorrow!
<apachelogger_> I knew you would say that :P
<nixternal> docs are complete
<Riddell> anyone want to make a video for 8.04 intro?  that would be fun
<nixternal> translations for docs are complete
<nosrednaekim> great nixternal
<apachelogger_> KDE 4 is polished as much a possible with KDE 4.0.0
<apachelogger_> -.0
<apachelogger_> Riddell: what kind of video?
<yuriy> apachelogger_: and more so since it's 4.0.3? :D
<Riddell> apachelogger_: screencast showing new features
<nixternal> get popey on the horn, he is the screecast wizard :)
<apachelogger_> Riddell: maybe we should call for it in a blog post?
<apachelogger_> if that doesn't work out we still can tell nixternal to do it ;-)
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: unified icon theme, but no unified theme setting :'(
<nixternal> nice try
<Riddell> yeah, he does everything we ask him to, what a guy :)
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: the theme is the worse part IMO
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-17
 * apachelogger_ gives nixternal a cookie
<nixternal> if you guys quit asking me to do things I might be able to do some more dev related work :p
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: what about browser proxy settings etc ??? :) no way as long as the settings are not stored the same way.... but we discuss this later
<apachelogger_> nixternal: lol
<nixternal> my school work is even backed up...so Riddell don't be surprised if you get an email interview from me :)
<apachelogger_> yuriy: anything you can think of which is critical to hardy?
<nixternal> I need to go eat, so I will catch up in a bit..thanks!
<yuriy> so no currently known bugs that need to / _are allowed to be_ fixed before the release?
 * apachelogger_ wants to note that now that xinelibs is patched with a new pulseaudio plugin amarok works again in gnome!
<yuriy> apachelogger_: i don't know of anything critical
<Riddell> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04 has ...
<Riddell> "(high)   209220  HP DeskJet 5550 not supported in Hardy"  fix is in queue
<awen_> when yuriy says that hardy will indead rock :)
<Riddell> "210443  file overwrite error in hardy" fix also in queue
<Riddell> "218393  [kde4] /sbin not included in ubuntu user's PATH environmental ..." dunno, I should look at that
<apachelogger_> Oo
<awen_> Riddell: is there anything kde specific?
<Riddell> I think that compares favourably to the number of gnome bugs on that milestone list :)
<Riddell> awen_: just that bug 218393
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218393 in kdebase-workspace "[kde4] /sbin not included in ubuntu user's PATH environmental variable" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218393
<apachelogger_> new comment there
<yuriy> Riddell: actually i wanted to discuss that at some point since i think it's more of a problem of us not marking milestones than not having any release critical bugs
<Riddell> oh, also "217669  Kubuntu's Printing system I am unable to hit apply on server s" which I've fixed too
<apachelogger_> "Logging out of the KDE4 desktop session and logging back in somehow add '/sbin' to $PATH."
<awen_> Riddell: the same bug that prevents running sudo systemconfig ?
<nosrednaekim> awen_: very different
<awen_> should that one be fixed too?
<Riddell> yuriy: that's true, although I'd rather milestoned ones had a good chance of being fixed
<nosrednaekim> awen_: I think they are currently fixing that upstream'
<yuriy> dunno what that bug is about but redhat doesn't put /sbin in the path at all so it doesn't sound like much of a bug to me
<apachelogger_> Riddell: if Brian used a livecd this is rather a livecd bug than one in KDE 4
<apachelogger_> we really only attach /usr/lib/kde4 to $PATH
<apachelogger_> so /sbin was missing before KDE 4 got invoked
<Riddell> awen_: I don't know that bug, bug sudo shouldn't generally be used with GUI apps
<Riddell> s/bug/but/
<awen_> Riddell: no ... but there is no "administrator mode" in kde4 systemsettings, right?
<Riddell> apachelogger_: yes, it's quite curious
<Tonio_> Riddell: there is a couple of kdesudo little issues I have to fix this WE just before the release
<Riddell> awen_: right, that's an upstream issue
<apachelogger_> they are working on it
<Tonio_> Riddell: especially 208461
<Tonio_> bug 208461
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 208461 in kdesudo "[Hardy] kdesu doesn't work via ssh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208461
<apachelogger_> awen_: sudo/kdesu/kdesudo is not working because it doesn't honor the user $PATH
<apachelogger_> Tonio_ is on that IIRC
<awen_> apachelogger_: is someone looking into this?
<Riddell> Tonio_: milestoned
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: sudo does honor the user $PATH, but not kdesudo or gksudo
<Riddell> "honour"
<apachelogger_> s/honor/honour
<yuriy> who has permissions to mark milestones? just Riddell?
<apachelogger_> Tonio_: why is it failing with sudo as well then? Oo
<Riddell> yuriy: anyone who can edit bugs I think
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: no idea :)
<awen_> what about putting an "start systemconfig as root" (different name of course) into the menu?
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: I have to look at that
<nosrednaekim> Riddell: the first time you were right ;)
<Tonio_> Riddell: I also milestoned bug 204440
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 204440 in kdesudo "[hardy]: kdesudo as non-root user works only once" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204440
<Tonio_> apachelogger_: concerning bug 209831, I have to look more closely, but it looks like this is on gutsy, and fixed in hardy for a while :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 209831 in kdesudo "Unable to pass parameters with spaces in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209831
<apachelogger_> awen_: maybe we can backport form KDE 4.1, considering that already got an start as admin feature
<apachelogger_> anyone with KDE trunk around?
<awen_> apachelogger_: if that is indeed possible, could be good ... but if not, i think the menu item as a temporary solution would be good
<Riddell> there was a patch to 4.1 for the clock module to run a script as root
<apachelogger_> awen_: I am not sure it is easy to implement
<Riddell> the same needs to be done to the other modules that need root
<apachelogger_> i.e. whether it is possible to find out which module is running right now
<Riddell> but, upstream issue
<awen_> Riddell: what other modules do we have?
<apachelogger_> kdm
<apachelogger_> well
 * apachelogger_ stops being lazy and gets his laptop
<Riddell> open week
<etretyak> apachelogger_: what's wrong with kdm?
<Riddell> we have a couple of talks due, thanks to nixternal https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<Riddell> anyone else want to do a Kubuntu or KDE related talk?
<apachelogger_> "how to break KDE 4 and KDE 3 without reason"
<yuriy> a potential important installer bug: bug 217770
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217770 in ubiquity "Kubuntu-KDE4 Hardy Beta LiveCD install crashes session" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217770
<Tonio_> Riddell: I have very limited time at the moment, so no for me..... hopefully it'll be better in the next weeks
<Riddell> yuriy: I expect that's fixed, a few i18n bugs have been, but I'll test it tomorrow during my RC tests
 * apachelogger_ can't think of any possible topic for openweek tbh
<Riddell> any other business?
<apachelogger_> what to do with eagles?
<jcastro> I still have open slots for openweek if anyone wants to do more Kubuntu sessions!
<Riddell> jcastro: try and convince apachelogger_ to do one :)
<apachelogger_> I just need a topic ;-)
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
<Riddell> apachelogger_: mm, yes, a keen chap but needs more hand holding than is healthy
<awen_> apachelogger_: eagles?
<apachelogger_> awen_: eaglessomenumbers nick in -devel
<jcastro> apachelogger_: let me think
<apachelogger_> Riddell: I talked to Hobbsee today, she would like to ban him
<jcastro> is porting from Qt3->4 still an interesting topic?
<awen_> apachelogger_: okay
<apachelogger_> jcastro: not really
<awen_> apachelogger_: hasn't he only been around for a short while?
<apachelogger_> Riddell: do you think he distrubed development since he joined?
<apachelogger_> awen_: yeah
<apachelogger_> still
<apachelogger_> I spent about 6 hours working with him on a 5 minutes fix for 2 packages
<Jucato> I believe he has caused some ruckus in #ubuntu-devel before
<apachelogger_> yeah, he is banned there already
<Jucato> s/believe/heard/
<apachelogger_> I suggested instead of banning to ask him to leave until he got himself the appropriate knowledge to start contribution
<apachelogger_> because, from what I noticed...
<apachelogger_> he asked a lot of questions, mostly quite easy to find out using wiki.ubuntu.com
<apachelogger_> and everyone someone else answered
<apachelogger_> *everytime
<yuriy> hmm bug 218431 also seems important-ish
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218431 in ubuntu "KDE4 country selector doesn't offer a list countrys to select from" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218431
<awen_> apachelogger_: ... and doing it in a nice way; suggest other ways to help out
<apachelogger_> awen_: tbh there is nothing I think he would be qualified for right now
<apachelogger_> maybe testing would be a possability, but I expect it's quite some work to gather necessary informations about an issue from him :(
<awen_> apachelogger_: i was also thinking non-developer stuff ... like translating or other things
<yuriy> anybody know how old he is? is english native to him?
<Riddell> his English is.. not good
<Riddell> he's from the US
<apachelogger_> lol
<apachelogger_> that sentence combination ... :P
<awen_> yuriy: his probably from year 87 (based on his name)
<JontheEchidna> He's... older than me if that's to be believed ;_;
<Riddell> testing ISOs, surely he can manage that
<apachelogger_> Riddell: I am not concerned about the testing, but about the value of information he can provide right now ... maybe that just needs trainging though
<apachelogger_> he reported 1 or 2 bug reports recently
<apachelogger_> made me wonder a lot what to ask first ;-)
 * apachelogger_ should use commas
<Riddell> let's try poking him towards ISO testing, that genuinely is where we need help in the next 10 days
<awen_> yuriy: that one actually looks quite important ... do we know if it is a problem for all languages or german only?
<Riddell> and if he can't manage that in a useful way then there's not much hope
<yuriy> awen_: well for one, i can confirm it. i don't think it's related to the language
<apachelogger_> Riddell: ok
<apachelogger_> will talk to him tomorrow
<awen_> yuriy: that sounds like one that is pretty important then
<apachelogger_> oh
<apachelogger_> yuriy: about bug 218431 - I think that is a dependency issue
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 218431 in kdebase-workspace "KDE4 country selector doesn't offer a list countrys to select from" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218431
<apachelogger_> I stumbled upon that issue in 4.0.0 and forgot to fix it apparently
<awen_> apachelogger_: sounds like you are on it then :)
<awen_> s/:)/;)
<apachelogger_> yeah, just assigned :D
<apachelogger_> Riddell: I think we are done with the meeting
<Riddell> I think so
<Riddell> thanks all
 * Jucato thanks too
<neversfelde|mobi> gn8
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Apr 20:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 23 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 30 Apr 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<Hobbsee> ooh, meeting that i missed
<Hobbsee> bah.  you all discuss eagles when i'm not here.
 * Hobbsee puts her thoughts into #kubuntu-devel
<pitti> hi all
<seb128> hey pitti
<kwwii> hi all
<Hobbsee> oh noes, its' a meeting!
 * pedro_ waves
 * Hobbsee drowns
<kwwii> da-da-da-duhhhhhhh
<Keybuk> mvo, Riddell: ping
<Riddell> hi
 * seele yawns
 * seele waves
<mpt> Good aftermorning everybody
<mvo> hello!
<ted1> I think it's more premorning :)
<MacSlow> Greetings!
<Keybuk> ok, great
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-04-17
<Keybuk> I didn't see any agenda items in activity reports, so before we begin, does anyone have anything to add?
<Keybuk> also nothing new on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReportingPage this week?
<MacSlow> nope
<pitti> nothing interesting beyond 'works better than last week'
<Keybuk> ok, should be a quick meeting then :-)
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> has one new item, bug #63450
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 63450 in acpid "acpid install fails (because of hal running)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63450
<Keybuk> at a glance, that looks like something where the patch wasn't good, so should be removed from the sponsoring team?
<pitti> mvo and I are currently actively discussing this in #u-devel and the bug
<mvo> Keybuk: its a nasty one unfortunately
<pitti> it's not at all clear what the problem is, or how to solve it properly
<mvo> well, the problem is that if you have hal installed and not acpid and then install acpid it will fail
<mvo> because /proc/acpi/event is already claimed by hald
<pitti> so, the patch with restarting hal didn't work?
<mvo> it does, but not in the general case, I have a test-case when during upgrade hal is unapcked but not configured yet
<mvo> then acpid tries to restart it and hal hangs (no idea why exactly but it does)
<pitti> mvo: add a check for /var/run/hald/hald.pid to the snippet?
<mvo> if I change the ordering (by adding a pre-depends on hal into acpid) it works apparently
<Keybuk> ok, sounds like a nasty one :)
<Keybuk> looks like you have it in hand though
<Keybuk> nothing new in http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html today
<mvo> pitti: yeah, sjoerd suggested this too, I try that next
<pedro_> nop nothing new
<Keybuk> couple of items from me:
<Keybuk> - Performance Reviews are imminent, and some of you may have already received some of the mails for it
<pitti> I got the announcement, but no personal ones with the URLs
<pitti> (and I did check my spam filter :) )
<Riddell> there isn't one, you just go to the URL and register and it'll send you another URL
<Keybuk> - I won't worry about regular catch up calls again next week, to give you the maximum time for release work
<Keybuk> but if you do want to chat, please don't hesistate to grab me
<Keybuk> otherwise if there's no other business, I'll let you all get back to work?
<pitti> CD testing seems reasonable so far, FWIW \o/
<seb128> Keybuk: make sure we message that corporate users etc should wait for 8.04.1 if they want something rocking stable
<seb128> there is no world is breaking issues but lot of annoying things still
<pitti> they won't upgrade to hardy tomorrow anyway, I figure
<pitti> not if you stayed on dapper on the desktop for that long
<pitti> but it's important to have the .1 plan/announcement in the release notes, indeed
 * mpt drops a pin
<pitti> mpt: I heared that!
 * MacSlow saw it
<Keybuk> okok, adjourned ;)
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> happy testing everyone!
 * mvo waves
 * MacSlow wishes his pipe was faster
<kwwii> danke
<kwwii> MacSlow: I didn't think you smoked :-)
<MacSlow> kwwii, english dude... english
<MacSlow> kwwii, nice try :)
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> bye
<MacSlow> back to clutter
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-04-18
<RoAkSoAx> does anyone know if tomorrow will the Regional Membership Boards will have a meeting?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-14
<BUGabundo> hi
<BUGabundo> is the RegionalBoards-AsiaOceania schedule for today? I can't see it on the fridge
<persia> BUGabundo, That's what the wiki page says.  If enough people are here, it will start in about 196 minutes.
<BUGabundo> thanks persia
<BUGabundo> asac: its just you I think! mine is working
<BUGabundo> 1.0.2~bzr294-0ubuntu1~daily1
<BUGabundo> oops wrong channel. sorry
<shyam2> help
<BUGabundo>  ! ask | shyam2
<ubottu> shyam2: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<shyam2> msg nickserv identify rattlesnake
<BUGabundo> shyam2: nice to know your password
<shyam2> heheh
<shyam2> new to irc
<shyam2> so is there any way to change that
<BUGabundo> don't do that in a channel for starters?
<shyam2> oh
<GunbladeIV> @.@
<BUGabundo> shyam2: please type: /join #help
<shyam2> so i changed my pass
<BUGabundo> shyam2: great
<shyam2> so i'm in the rite place for today's meeting ??
<BUGabundo> shyam2: if it happens, sure!
<BUGabundo> applying for membership too ?
<shyam2> heheh
<shyam2> yup
<BUGabundo> lets see how it goes.
<VK7HSE-Eee> awaits nervously... :-D
<shyam2> whats there for nervousness ??
<VK7HSE-Eee> He he... also applying for membership too...
<shyam2> do you thing thats a big deal ??
<shyam2> i mean
<shyam2> who's the head for approving the ppl like us.
<VK7HSE-Eee> I'm yet to find out!
<Rochdi> Hi all
<Rochdi> Hi MaWaLe
<bizkut> hi Rochdi
<Rochdi> Hi bizkut
<VK7HSE-Eee> G'day...
<BUGabundo> humm guud day
<shyam2> hi everyone
<MaWaLe> hi Rochdi
<nizarus> one said "Quorum or not Quorum !!! That's THE question !!"
<MaWaLe> please guys : keep the log clean
<MaWaLe> the meeting is @10UTC
<Rochdi> hi BUGabundo VK7HSE-Eee shyam2
<bizkut> 24 minutes to go
<shyam2> so you want the answer for Quorum
<nizarus> shyam2: don't answer 42 :p
<shyam2> why??
<BUGabundo> guys, please calm down! take all that extra energy to #ubuntu-offtopic, ok?
<MaWaLe> +1 BUGabundo
<lifeless> shyam2: its a council
<shyam2> ok fine
<RachedTN> hello MaWaLe, nizarus, Rochdi :)
<RachedTN> I am here to support MaWaLe, Ã©Ã©Ã©hhhhaaaaaaaa :)
<MaWaLe> hi RachedTN
<RachedTN> :P
<MaWaLe> please keep the log clean
<RachedTN> oky doky :)
<MaWaLe> no offtopic here : thanks
<shyam2> ya
<shyam2> guyz is the group alive??
<ALAYA> shyam2: yes it is. this channel is for meetings. look here to know about next meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<shyam2> yes i know about that
<shyam2> but no one is talking
<ALAYA> because there is no meeting right now :)
<RachedTN> shyam2: we are saving our energy, just 5 mn and you'll see how much we will talk :)
<shyam2> ya
<shyam2> i'll wait
<RachedTN> shyam2: here they come :)
<e-jat> wb TheMuso
<TheMuso> e-jat: I never idle in here, but thanks all the same. :p
<elky> hopefully not all at once.
<e-jat> :)
<e-jat> yea
<RachedTN> hi elky :)
 * persia peers about
 * MaWaLe following persia
<persia> Hmmm...   No amachu yet.
<hito_jp> hi persia,
<persia> hey hito_jp
<MaWaLe> hi persia, TheMuso, lifeless, elky
<shyam2> hi ppl
 * BUGabundo_mibbit waits
<lidaobing> hi
<persia> Hrm.  Still no amachu.  Shall we start anyway?  lifeless, you still about?
<elky> persia, we have an awful lot to get through tonight, i think he'd want us to start
<persia> RIght.
<persia> elky, You want to chair?
<elky> persia, i'm eating as we do this, so probably not best
<persia> OK.  TheMuso?
<persia> Also, word is that amachu is having a power outage, and will be with us as soon as is practicable.
<elky> and i have atrocious lag
<TheMuso> Well, if we don't have to use MootBot or such, I don't mind attempting to chair.
<persia> No need to use MootBot :)
<TheMuso> ok then
<e-jat> :)
<TheMuso> Lets get started.
<TheMuso> MaWaLe: It appears you're first up, so could you please tell us a bit about yourself, and what involvement you have in the Ubuntu community etc?
<MaWaLe> thanks TheMuso
<MaWaLe> so my name is Wajih
<TheMuso> All other prospective members, please have a blurb ready so we can get through things as quickly as possible.
<MaWaLe> i'm tunisian people
<MaWaLe> i applied previously on this RB
<MaWaLe> for the first time it was a +0 vote
 * TheMuso remembers you.
<MaWaLe> because i haven' enough community visibility (pro intervention)
<elky_> i also remember
<lidaobing> I'll back in 30 minutes(for supper)
<MaWaLe> so as mentioned on my personal wiki page : i'm the events group coordinator of our Tunisian LoCo team
<MaWaLe> i try to do my best to promote Ubuntu with supervising and taking part in events
<RachedTN> I'm here to support MaWaLe for membership, he is awsome :)
<MaWaLe> i also try to contribute in launchpad and also be present in IRC channels
<MaWaLe> i have to give a special thanks to persia who helps me a lot to perfect my wiki page
<MaWaLe> also amachu who revue it
<MaWaLe> and all the RB members here present
<persia> MaWaLe, When you last applied, there was some considerable discussion, and other effects within the Tunisian team.  Has that been resolved yet?
<MaWaLe> if you have some questions?
<MaWaLe> yes
<MaWaLe> our LoCo had a meeting with the loco council
<MaWaLe> and the issue is resolved
<nizarus> persia: i'm the loco contact of the tunisian team and i confirm that the loco council closed that issue
<MaWaLe> even the misunderstanding on my wiki page was resolved
<RachedTN> I was present in taht discussion and I confirm too
<persia> nizarus, Thanks for the confirmation.
<nizarus> MaWaLe: still working with the loco and the other member leaved
<TheMuso> MaWaLe: How did the event held on the 4th of April turn out?
<amachu> hi
<MaWaLe> it was a greatful success
<TheMuso> Its an amachu! :)
<zaafouri> I'm an Ubuntu-tn member & I'm here to support MaWaLe
<elky> i am not convinced it is
<MaWaLe> we also have a ffedback from peoples who was present
<zaafouri> I work with this team since 4 months and everythings
<amachu> TheMuso: hey!
<zaafouri> is ok & I m pleased to work with this team
<MaWaLe> they also prepare a report for the event that we hope to publish ont he next UNW
<TheMuso> MaWaLe: Awesome.
<Rochdi> I'm an Ubuntu-tn member & I'm here to support MaWaLe
<elky> i am no longer concerned about your wikipage. the RMB received some correspondence this week, and it has me personally unsure of the resolution.
<MaWaLe> elky : even nizarus was present and you can ask him for this event
<ALAYA> I'm a ubuntu-tn member and I'm here to support MaWaLe too. his one of the most active member in our LoCo
<nizarus> the report of the 4th April : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/En/EventISETSBZ9.04Reporting
<RachedTN> here is a summary of our events : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TunisianTeam/Events   , there is english reports too that with photos that can show you how successful our event were :)
<MaWaLe> elky : sorry for asking but what correspondence
<TheMuso> elky: RMB, I'm guessing is a membership board, but which one?
<MaWaLe> the issue with Rafik was closed by the LoCo council
<ALAYA> MaWaLe participate in most our events and coordinate them
<MaWaLe> and all loco members here can confirm my sayings
<elky_> TheMuso, this RMB
<RachedTN> elky : take a look on the photos and you'll see :)
<zaafouri> It was a great success, I'd pleasure to prepare and this event =)
<TheMuso> elky_: ok
<RachedTN> MaWaLe : he's the man, he is always present :)
<zaafouri> +1 RachedTN
<ALAYA> +1 RachedTN
<RachedTN> +1 from me too
<RachedTN> :)
<nizarus> elky_: MaWaLe: still working with the loco and the other member leaved that was the situation after  the loco council meeting
<MaWaLe> in that meeting even popey and boredandblogging was present
<popey> indeed we were
<RachedTN> I have the log of that discussion, bordenblogging was there and he can confirm you that later :)
<RachedTN> hi popey :)
<MaWaLe> thx popey for confirming
<amachu> elky: persia: would like to take up voting?
<persia> Sure, we can vote.
<persia> I'm not sure there are lots more questions to ask.
<persia> Personally, I'm uncertain.  The form of the wiki page is fine.  The previous conflict, and the accusations made make me uncomfortable regarding the letter of the CoC.
<TheMuso> I think elky_ still has concerns about something...
<elky_> i have just spoken with popey
<elky_> and i am not convinced that the issues we are referring to are the same
<elky_> i am voting -1 to mawale
<amachu> rest?
<RachedTN> I have the log of the discussion , i will be please to give it to anyone who need it to confirm that MaWaLe i the best, he rocks :)
<amachu> RachedTN: do you have a wiki page for you?
<persia> I'm +0.
<ALAYA> elky_: I respect your vote. but I  think that MaWaLe deserve to be a ubuntu member
<elky_> ALAYA, i do not think that any amount of contribution excuses the breaking of the Code of Conduct.
<ALAYA> here my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zied_ALAYA
<TheMuso> Since I don't keep up with loco activity, and since I'm not really aware of these goings on, I can only go on the info I am presented with here. The wikipage is fine, and the testimonials seem fine, but the lingering doubt and confusion about goings on with the loco make me unsure, so +0.
<MaWaLe> breaking of the code of conduct ????
<MaWaLe> how?
<ALAYA> +1 elky_
<amachu> lifeless: TheMuso ?
<elky_> MaWaLe, this is not the place to discuss it
<ALAYA> but MaWaLe didnt
<TheMuso> amachu: just voted, see my comments.
<amachu> saw that
<elky_> ALAYA, i am not convinced, and hence i cannot with good conscience vote him in
<amachu> just a minute
<ALAYA> elky_:  as I say: I respect your vote
<BUGabundo> can I present now ?
<elky_> BUGabundo, not yet
<persia> BUGabundo, Not yet.  There's a few people ahead of you on the list.
<BUGabundo> elky_: ok
<amachu> MaWaLe: I couldn't immedietly recollect who started words against you.. was it nizarus ?
<RachedTN> ï»¿http://pastebin.com/m66e0b749  : here is the log of the discussion, you can see it, an here is my launchpad account : https://edge.launchpad.net/~rached-aleya
<MaWaLe> nizarus : never
<nizarus> amachu: i'm supporting MaWaLe, i'm not against him
<ALAYA> amachu: no. nizarus ALAYA RachedTN zaafouri CRELOUR Rochdi are all here to support MaWaLe
<MaWaLe> amachu: the only one was Rafik
<MaWaLe> and rafik started words about all the LoCo team
<MaWaLe> not only me
<amachu> MaWaLe: yes. thanks
<amachu> got it
<RachedTN> it's all written in the log, you can see it yourself :)
<amachu> nizarus: sorry, that was just a second of poor memory
<RachedTN> we totally support MaWaLe :)
<persia> So, let's set this aside for now, and we can all discuss over the next while.
<nizarus> amachu: we are 2 then :D
<persia> There's other candidates, who ought be reviewed.
<amachu> MaWaLe: you have shown patience and perseverance, throughout. I would give you +1 for all that.
<elky_> indeed, and some of us are hoping for bed before next year ;)
<nizarus> persia: MaWaLe is waiting since december :/
<MaWaLe> persia: can i only ask for the reason of all this delay please
<amachu> backed up with your own team members like nizarus
<MaWaLe> thanks amachu
<RachedTN> and we are also waiting with him since december
<persia> nizarus, And with the current voting of one against, and two abstaining, isn't going to be confirmed for membership today.
<amachu> but with only me giving +1 and two abstaining
<persia> amachu, Even then.
<amachu> doesn't help you for today
<elky_> ok, who's next?
<amachu> persia: yep. we shall proceed
<hito_jp> adityag is not here?  me?
<elky_> aditya
<TheMuso> hito_jp: looks that way
<elky_> hito_jp, appears so
<hito_jp> okay, Im Fumihito YOSHIDA, stay in Japan. Im ubuntu-jp(Japanese) LoCo members, and root of two japanese mirror servers that include ubuntutym.u-toyama.ac.jp(include jp.archive.ubuntu.com).
<hito_jp> Also, I worked in supporting user at local forum(http:forum.ubuntulinux.jp) and some events, writing technical articles on Japanese {,Web} Magazines as LoCo members.
<hito_jp> Please check my Wikipage. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FumihitoYoshida
<elky_> hito_jp, you also give talks?
<hito_jp> what mean "talks"? ( sry for my poorly english)
<persia> Presentations.
<elky_> hito_jp, you speak to groups
<hito_jp> I planed to make a contribution, to push some features and arts came from in Japanese, for example, "TOMOYO Linux", "Ubunchu" and so on.
<hito_jp> "Ubunchu" is Japanese Ubuntu 'manga'(comic) that wrote by Hiroshi SEO, We(ubuntu-us-ma and ubuntu-jp) collaborate this translation. see also: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ubunchu-the-ubuntu-manga-is-now-in-english/
<elky_> hito_jp, you're the ubunchu writer?
<hito_jp> No,
<lifeless> amachu: I am here
<hito_jp> Original author is "SEO Hiroshi"(seotch).
<hito_jp> "SEO" is japanese familiy name, not search engine optimize;)
<amachu> lifeless: may be a bit late. you vote on MaWaLe ?
<lifeless> I am reading now
<amachu> lets keep it later
<amachu> let hito_jp continue
<hito_jp> Okay, but...i said "if you have some questions?"
<elky_> ok, moving on then, hito_jp.  You do some translations?
<hito_jp> Yes, I worked as translator.
<hito_jp> it called "Eng*r*ish";)
<elky_> i've asked all my questions
<TheMuso> none from me.
<amachu> hito_jp: How long have you been with ubuntu japanese team?
<hito_jp> about two years.
<lifeless> I'm +1
<elky_> between the presentations, articles, mirror admin'ing translations, bugs and loco work, i'm +1
<TheMuso> +1
 * persia has no questions for hito_jp, only unreserved support +1
<amachu> and anyone here other than persia for your support?
<e-jat> im +1
<amachu> e-jat: ?
<hito_jp> Thank you quorums, and e-jat;)
<hito_jp> amachu: sorry, jkbys (Japanese LoCo leader) has absence.
<amachu> hito_jp: thats fine. +1 from me too. keep up the good work
<amachu> lifeless: do you have any thing to say on MaWaLe
<BuffaloSoldier> + for hito_jp
<iGama> :)
<amachu> lifeless: any comments?
<lifeless> amachu: -0.5 for MaWaLe sorry
<BuffaloSoldier> +1 for hito_jp
<amachu> lifeless: ok
<hito_jp> Thanks, BuffaloSoldier.
<MaWaLe> thanks for all
<MaWaLe> just before leaving can i ask elky for a private meeting to discuss the break of CoC?
<amachu> Khanh_coltech isn't here
<amachu> jomlinux ?
<amachu> linuxmalaysia?
<amachu> GunbladeIV: are you there ?
<GunbladeIV> amachu, linuxmalaysia cant make it today as he has important meeting on current moment
<GunbladeIV> amachu, yup, im here
<nbliang> jomlinux can;t make it i think
<e-jat> amachu: linuxmalaysia just left .. he got urgent meeting regarding OSS issue
<e-jat> GunbladeIV: is here ..
<ApOgEE--> go go GunbladeIV
<amachu> GunbladeIV: Please go ahead
<GunbladeIV> Hello, my name is Mohd Faizul Zulkipli.  I'm 25 years old and I'm a student in local polytechnic institute.  I managed to join ubuntu-my loco team on early 2007 where i was appointed to take charge as one of the web team members.  I'm a supporter for free and open source software(FOSS).  Actively involved in educating and promoting the usage of FOSS especially Ubuntu to students and lecturers in Universities and Polytechnics.
<GunbladeIV> I had tried once to be an official ubuntu members on 1st July 2008 but received +0 votes from the council and were asked to come again due to no sustainable contribution.
 * nbliang go GunbladeIV
<GunbladeIV> My contribution for my loco team is currently based on web service such as maintaining and updating current loco websites.  I also actively promoting Ubuntu to my lecturers and student here in Polytechnic Sultan Idris Shah(Sabak Bernam, Malaysia).
<GunbladeIV> I help my lecturers on basic knowledge of installing ubuntu and using Open Office on 4th April 2009 and make it look like a workshop.  Picture will be added on my wiki as soon as i received pictures from my lecturer.  Council can view all my contribution on my wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gunbladeiv and my launchpad profile at http://launchpad.net/~gunbladeiv
<elky_> MaWaLe, not necessarily a meeting, but we can discuss if you email ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania@lists.ubuntu.com
<GunbladeIV> i just finish paste my intro text, any question i'm more than happy to answer
<khanh_coltech> hello :)
<GunbladeIV> welcome khanh_coltech
<khanh_coltech> im late?
<elky_> khanh_coltech, you'll have to wait until after GunbladeIV now
<amachu> khanh_coltech: wait for a while
<MaWaLe> thanks elky for the reply : i'll do it
<persia> GunbladeIV, I notice you were doing a number of translations up until about three weeks ago.  What changed?
<GunbladeIV> persia, i'm having a load of workload right now. I need to finish my Final Year project to gain my diploma. I'll continue translation after i have a bit of time.
<GunbladeIV> s/load/lot
<GunbladeIV> persia, plus i need to present my Final Project in two weeks from now
<persia> Fair enough :)  I was just curious if it was "I'm done with that" or "I'm too busy, and will get back to it soon", and am glad to hear it's the latter.
<e-jat> maybe u may continue the translation after your final project right
<GunbladeIV> e-jat, sure
<lifeless> +1
<nbliang> to add to that, GunbladeIV is very active in the loco activities
<e-jat> persia: even GunbladeIV bz with his FYP ... he still contribute to loco especially our portal n wiki
<lifeless> I remember you from before
<elky_> yep +1 from me too
<TheMuso> +1
<persia> I'm both satisfied and happy.  Nice work since you you last applied.
<persia> +1
<GunbladeIV> thanks elky , e-jat and nbliang
<BuffaloSoldier> i'm here to support GunbladeIV as well
<amachu1> GunbladeIV: are there people from your team here?
<GunbladeIV> thanks persia
<bizkut> +1 for our LoCo member
<bizkut> :)
<GunbladeIV> amachu, yup.. they are e-jat , BuffaloSoldier , nbliang
 * nbliang +1 to our member
<GunbladeIV> amachu, bizkut is here too
<e-jat> +1 for GunbladeIV
<BuffaloSoldier> +1 for GunbladeIV
<amachu1> okie.. sounds good for me
<amachu1> +1 for GunbladeIV. Welcome
 * nbliang Yippie for GunbladeIV
<GunbladeIV> thanks quorums and all ubuntu-my members
<ApOgEE--> +1 GunbladeIV
<ApOgEE--> go go GunbladeIV !!
<afflux> just for the record, as I've got to leave for breakfast: I'd like to show my support for BUGabundo, I remember him as a very active bugsquad member :-)
<SuMarDi> +1 GunbladeIV
<persia> afflux, So noted.  Thanks.
<BUGabundo> afflux: thanks!
<amachu1> khanh_coltech: are you there?
<khanh_coltech> yes :)
<amachu1> Please go ahead
<elky_> time to introduce yourself
<khanh_coltech> i am Phan Trá»ng Khanh :)
<khanh_coltech> come from ubuntu-vn (Ubuntu Viá»t Nam)
<khanh_coltech> i am administrator of Ubuntu-VN website
<elky_> khanh_coltech, what parts of the website?
 * lidaobing back just now
<khanh_coltech> elky_: forum and wiki
<elky_> khanh_coltech, as well as the main website?
<khanh_coltech> elky_: yes
<elky_> khanh_coltech, what about things on launchpad. what do you do there?
<khanh_coltech> elky_: I contrib to Ubuntu by translate in launchpad and improve Ubuntu Vietnamese Community
<elky_> khanh_coltech, do you have any other people from the vietnamese team here today?
<khanh_coltech> elky_: yes
<khanh_coltech> Cation_H:
<amachu1> khanh_coltech: the wiki misses comments, testimonials
<amachu1> Cation_H: any feedback on khanh_coltech
<elky_> Cation_H, would you like to say something about khanh_coltech?
<amachu1> khanh_coltech: ubuntu-vietnam is yet to become an approved team?
<khanh_coltech> amachu1: yes
<Cation_H> elky_: he is great
<khanh_coltech> Cation_H: =))
<elky_> khanh_coltech, do you do other things, like presentations, or expos
<lifeless> Cation_H: are you a ubuntu member?
<Cation_H> lifeless: yes, I'm trying to help ubuntu newbie.
<khanh_coltech> elky_: no, i only translate ubuntu in lanchpad and improve Ubuntu-VN
<lifeless> Cation_H: thanks, just curious :)
<elky_> khanh_coltech, who is contact for ubuntu-vn?
<amachu1> Cation_H: you have your wiki page?
<Cation_H> amachu1: no, I don't
<khanh_coltech> elky_: me :)
<Cation_H> amachu1: but I'm taking part in writing ubunt-vn wiki
<khanh_coltech> elky_: ubuntu-vn is found by BÃ¹i Sá»¹ Phong
<amachu1> well, I would give +0 at this time for khanh_coltech
<lifeless> elky https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-vn/+members
<amachu1> persia: comments?
<lifeless> khanh_coltech is a admin in that team
<amachu1> TheMuso: comments feedback
<lifeless> which means in-team confidence
<elky_> amachu1, i agree. I'd like to see better documentation and supporting comments from other -vn people first
<TheMuso> +0 also. The wiki page lacks testimonials and more detail about the work you do would be nice
<lifeless> I'm +1
<elky_> khanh_coltech, you're doing good, we just want documentation!
<lifeless> because I've nosed around ubuntu-vn.org, which looks well maintained
<amachu1> khanh_coltech: more clarity on the wiki
<amachu1> lifeless: yes.. that looks good
<persia> I'm +1.  I'm happy with the work I've seen both now, and from previous interactions.  More documentation would be good, but I've seen enough in other traffic.
<amachu1> may be may be, if Cation_H could have given more info about him, it would have helped me giving +1
<khanh_coltech> thanks: persia, lifeless
<elky_> persia, is that a recommendation as well?
<persia> elky, No.  I've seen enough to overcome a desire for documentation, but not worked closely enough to provide a recommendation on my own behalf.
<unitedpotsmokers> excuse me, i vote for my friend bizkut, because he looks very helpful & handsome... bye
<amachu1> elky_: thinking of changing stance? I stick to +0
<elky_> amachu1, if i could have seen more cheering, i'd have voted differently
<persia> khanh_coltech, Put together the documentation, and you're in good shape for next time.
<Cation_H> amachu1: our community have some articles in the local magazines to introduce about ubuntu
<BUGabundo1> I'll have to leave in a few minutes for lunch! I'll try to come back later, if the meeting is still going on. Sorry
<Cation_H> amachu1: but the documentation in the wiki does not help much
<amachu1> okie. khanh_coltech: best wishes. you are doing good job
<elky_> Cation_H, we're looking for things specific to khanh_coltech
<Cation_H> amachu1: because all the people go to forum to ask
<elky_> Cation_H, we want a better profile of khanh_coltech, we want to know more about him
<amachu1> keep up the good work..
<amachu1> hoping to see you back soon
<Cation_H> elky_: he is learning at College of Technology, Vietnam National University, Hanoi
<amachu1> Cation_H: ok.
<persia> Cation_H, Telling us now isn't helpful: it belongs on the wiki page.
<elky_> Cation_H, not now, on the wiki, next time we meet
<amachu1> melayubuntu ?
<GunbladeIV> amachu1, melayubuntu is here
<e-jat> amachu1: melayubuntu reconnect
<BuffaloSoldier> melayubuntu is restarting his X-Chat
<amachu1> shyam2: are you there? and are you the one at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Shyam
<e-jat> there he is
<shyam2> yup
<shyam2> i'm here
<BuffaloSoldier> I have to be away for now. For the record, I'm also here to support melayubuntu/zulmalc and bizkut. Both have interacted well with the rest of ubuntu-my community and have shown maturity in handling questions in IRC. Both have given significant contribution, in their own unique way. Therefore, I give +1 for melayubuntu/zulmalc and bizkut.
<melayubuntu> can i be the next?
<shyam2> ya
<e-jat> thanks BuffaloSoldier
<shyam2> you start
<amachu1> melayubuntu: yes, Please go ahead
<melayubuntu> ok..
<melayubuntu> my name is zulkifli..and i'm a malaysian people
<melayubuntu> i am 24 year old
<melayubuntu> i am ubuntu local member since nov 2007 and specifically focus myself on documentation of ubuntu in my local language (malay)
 * ApOgEE-- vouch melayubuntu 
<melayubuntu> so then i setup this blog : http://melayubuntu.blogspot.com
<melayubuntu> and then i published e-maj, an electronic magazine covered the basic things people wanted to know about ubuntu, operating system and the differences of ubuntu and mic. windows.
 * e-jat malaysian love the e-maj
 * bizkut vote him for e-maj/e-zine
<melayubuntu> on 16 feb this year, i published 'Manual Ubuntu' an e-book about manual ubuntu written in malay...
<melayubuntu> all of them is free..
 * GunbladeIV +1 for melayubuntu e-maj
<melayubuntu> then i noticed something...there are lack of effort to translate ubuntu to malay language..and i started translating it.
 * e-jat used the e-maj for the past event
 * SuMarDi likes melayubuntu e-maj
<melayubuntu> i also have experience give a talk about ubuntu in an OSS seminar and i focused on ubuntu.
<melayubuntu> so..any question?
<e-jat> melayubuntu: give talk n presentation at college
<persia> melayubuntu, On your wiki page, you say "contributed something for ubuntu session during FOSS.MY 08".  What was that something?
<melayubuntu> yeah2.. thank e-jat
<melayubuntu> owh ok...
<e-jat> persia: melayubuntu be 1 of the presentator
<melayubuntu> there were ubuntu sessions there..
<e-jat> presenting ubuntu on macintosh
<melayubuntu> e-jat, yups..thanks
<e-jat> melayubuntu also explaining his e-maj for ubuntu user who came to the ubuntu room during the FOSS.MY 08
<elky_> melayubuntu, how much of your documentation is available in normal ubuntu places, like the wiki?
<ApOgEE--> I have to go now... I'm here to support melayubuntu and bizkut as fanclub from #ubuntu-my. I thought, they have contribute a lot in ubuntu-my community . Thank you!!
<GunbladeIV> quorums, you can download E-Maj from melayubuntu at this address http://www.joomla.my/.downloads/EMAJ_EDISI_1.pdf
<e-jat> melayubuntu also planning to release the 2nd edition of e-maj
<e-jat> maybe in jaunty release party
<melayubuntu> elky_ i cant remember how many mirrors it is..
<persia> Just an English usage note: "quorum" is the quantity of people required to make a binding decision out of a group.  This is a regional membership board, and so the members thereof are properly referred to as "Board Members".
<melayubuntu> most of them is free hosting mirror..
<melayubuntu> like savefile and so on
<e-jat> im sorry on  behalf of GunbladeIV , elky_
<GunbladeIV> persia, council it is?
<elky_> melayubuntu, if a malay user finds ubuntu.com and then wiki.ubuntu.com, how will they find these things easily?
<lifeless> GunbladeIV: board; you can say 'board members' if you want to talk to/about us
<amachu1> melayubuntu: any plans for publishing manual?
<lifeless> as a group we are quorate if there are enough of us present to meet quorum
<GunbladeIV> lifeless, noted
<melayubuntu> amachu1, no at this time..but maybe in the future...
<e-jat> amachu1: or should he create a project for the e-maj ?
<elky_> melayubuntu, do you see my question?
<melayubuntu> elky_, yes im sorry
<melayubuntu> i planned to put it somewhere in wiki
<persia> GunbladeIV, No, this isn't a council, it's a board.
<e-jat> or where is the best to upload/publish it at ubuntu.com ? is that what u mean elky_ ?
<lifeless> persia: asked and answered :)
<melayubuntu> so then malaysian people can download it
<elky_> e-jat, malay team has a wiki area, yes?
<e-jat> elky_: yes
<amachu1> e-jat: please keep this meeting for evaluation of candiadates
<e-jat> amachu1: sorry ..
<elky_> e-jat, somewhere on the front page of that area would be good. A box titled "Resources" or "Reading" would be good
<elky_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com.my/ seems broken too
<elky_> it links from your wiki area
<e-jat> elky_ we will do it a.s.a.p
<lifeless> amachu1: elky_ is driving that line of questioning; if anyone its her to chastise :)
<e-jat> elky_: GunbladeIV already explain it to persia just now
<BUGabundo1> have to do! bbl. thanks
<elky_> e-jat, i would prefer melayubuntu answer himself if possible
<melayubuntu> elky_, excuse me..whats your question?
<lifeless> I'm 0 at this point, not getting a sense of deep involvement, even though reasonable effort is being made
<lifeless> its not quite connecting the dots yet in my opinion
<TheMuso> lifeless: I'd agree, +0 also.
<elky_> melayubuntu, it's been answered now, but e-jat was speaking for you, so i'm not sure who was really answering
<persia> The product is gorgeous, and the effort large, but I'm inclined to agree with lifeless that it's yet insufficiently integrated.
<elky_> i agree with the others. there's been some wonderful things done, but it seems disjointed from the rest of the malay work. if it could be integrated, i'd vote yes, but for now, it's only 0
<melayubuntu> persia, its just because we just launched the wiki
<amachu1> +0 from me too
<persia> melayubuntu, Understood.  I think it's just a timing thing.  As soon as everything gets sorted, I expect you to find your next visit here very positive.
<melayubuntu> persia, yups..well this is my 1st time here..
<amachu1> melayubuntu: I second persia
<lifeless> melayubuntu: what do you mean 'just launched the wiki'
<amachu1> melayubuntu: best wishes next time
<amachu1> shyam2: hi
<lifeless> melayubuntu: what wiki are you talking about, for clarity?
<melayubuntu> thanks amachu1
<shyam2> hi
<melayubuntu> nope...i mean local wiki
<melayubuntu> we got overload problems too
<amachu1> persia: did every one of us voted om melayubuntu?
<elky_> lifeless, the one that's fallen over in a screamin heap
<lifeless> elky_: w.u.c?
<persia> amachu1, I don't know that we formally voted, but I think we have reached consensus.
<lifeless> melayubuntu: whats the url to your wiki?
<GunbladeIV> lifeless, he mean that wiki.ubuntu.com.my just launched last month by me..and atm we are having difficulties in handling load on the server
<persia> lifeless, w.u.c.my
<amachu1> persia: yes
<elky_> lifeless, no, the .my one
<melayubuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/melayubuntu
<melayubuntu> lifeless, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/melayubuntu
<amachu1> melayubuntu: best wishes for next time
<amachu1> shyam2: you can continue
<melayubuntu> amachu1, ok thanks..
<shyam2> hi amachu1
<shyam2> I am Shyam from India
<shyam2> i am a web developer
<shyam2> i was there in fedoraproject
<shyam2> in testing team
<shyam2> but now shifted totally to ubuntu
<amachu1> shyam2: would like to hear your contributions so far for Ubuntu
<shyam2> helped many people in migrating to ubuntu
<shyam2> i work in cognizant
<shyam2> and asked permission for a presentation
<shyam2> have created designs for t-shirts
<shyam2> planning for ubuntu transtlation in tamil
<amachu1> shyam2: are you aware of ubuntu tamil team and the work we do?
<amachu1> http://ubuntu-tam.org
<shyam2> ya
<amachu1> the wiki lacks information
<shyam2> yes i know that
<shyam2> because two weeks back only
<shyam2> i have created that page
<amachu1> i have give -1 here
<elky_> shyam2, how many cds have you handed out?
<shyam2> more than 100
<shyam2> to my friends in college, company
<shyam2> t shirts i have done around 6
<shyam2> for me and my friends
<elky_> ok, i can see you've got a good start and have good intentions, but you're really only just starting out. membership requires significant *and* sustained
<shyam2> yes
<shyam2> from seeing the previous candidates
<lifeless> shyam2: I think its great that you are contributing to Ubuntu. For membership we look for sustained contribution - you've been contributing to answers and bugs only since march as far as I can tell
<shyam2> yes lifeless
<persia> I think I'm -1 on this, for lack of documentation at least.  Advocacy work is harder to document than other sorts, but in part because of that, I like to see a *lot* of documentation.
<lifeless> keep doing what you're doing and come back in a couple of months and I imagine there will be no question that you'll get voted in
<shyam2> sure
<lifeless> persia: shyam2 is quite active on answers (in case you didn't look there), but only 6 weeks
<amachu1> shyam2: personally, suggest you to join mailing list of Ubuntu Tamil Team or Ubuntu Indian Team
<TheMuso> -1 also, my thoughts have already been expressed by othes.
<elky_> if you come back in 6 months time with lots of tamil work and more bugs and answers under your belt, i'll be happy to vote for you, but until then, i give a -1 also
<shyam2> no problem
<amachu1> and keep up the good work
<amachu1> shyam2: keep up good work, and document them as you do them
<shyam2> yes i'll do that
<elky_> shyam2, write up a 'to do' list on your wiki, then move the into a 'done' list as you do them :)
<shyam2> for sure
<amachu1> lidaobing: your tur now
<shyam2> fine...
<lidaobing> amachu1, Hello
<amachu1> lidaobing: your turn now
<lidaobing> Hello, my name is LI Daobing
<amachu1> go ahead
<lidaobing> I lived in China and currently works for Kingsoft Inc.
<lifeless> amachu1: I need to go
<lifeless> amachu1: I'm sorry I was late, but its now 10pm
<lidaobing> I maintained package for Debian since 2005
<lidaobing> then I switch to Ubuntu in last year
<lidaobing> I am focused on package maintaining
<elky_> persia, TheMuso are you both still here?
<TheMuso> yes
<persia> Yes.
<amachu1> lifeless: thats fine
<lidaobing> you can check my debian package in http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=lidaobing@gmail.com
<elky_> lifeless, we still have quorum, g'night :)
<amachu1> thanks for participating
<amachu1> good night
<lidaobing> and I also maintain some packages for ubuntu: such as ibus-*, llk-linux, iptux, etc.
<elky_> lidaobing, are you a MOTU?
<lidaobing> elky, yes
<lidaobing> elky_, I mean I can upload to motu
<elky_> lidaobing, if you're focussing on development stuff, then it is more appropriate to gain membership through MOTU council. we focus on community things. have you made community contributions>
<lidaobing> elky, not for ubuntu, I am the coordinator of Chinese in TP
<persia> lidaobing, I'll second that.  You'd do better to apply to be a contributing developer: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<TheMuso> elky_: to be clear, he can only upload to revu.
<lidaobing> http://translationproject.org/team/zh_CN.html
<lidaobing> TheMuso, yes
<elky_> TheMuso, i understood :)
<elky_> lidaobing, i think you're doing wonderful things, but if you go through the motu route, you'll get motu wings at the same time :)
<lidaobing> elky, OK
<amachu1> elky_: i suggest the same
<elky_> lidaobing, thanks for helping make debian and ubuntu better though :)
<lidaobing> elky_, OK.
<elky_> amachu1, i think we're all agreed. should we move on?
<amachu1> lidaobing: are ther people here to support you, apart from the suggestions we made
<lidaobing> amachu1, hanzhupeng@ubuntu.com (irc name: freeflying), but not here
<lidaobing> ArneGoetje is also sounds AFK
<lidaobing> s/ hanzhupeng@ubuntu.com/houzhengpeng@ubuntu.com/
<elky_> we still have people in the list, should we continue?
<amachu1> elky_: yes
<persia> Let's do that, so we have a short list next time.
<TheMuso> agreed
<amachu1> whats that we say collectively to lidaobing?
<persia> To go apply to MOTU Council
<elky_> amachu1, i think we all agreed he should go through motu
<amachu1> follow the MOTU way & best wishes
<lidaobing> thanks
<persia> Note that I'm not opposed to granting someone active in development membership here, if they are also active in other ways, have supporters, etc.
<amachu1> i hope he can still come here with more updates at wiki and testimonials
<amachu1> persia: me too
<elky_> persia, nor i, but i feel they'd get more from going the other way
<TheMuso> VK7HSE: are you still around?
<VK7HSE> Hi my name is Scott I'm 33 I live in a small township of Kingston, south of Hobart Tasmania. My current involvement for ubuntu is as a package builder for the application called Me TV. I'm keen beta tester and at this point I've focused on jaunty UNR. I'm also active on most IRC's for AU and attempt where possible to steer people in the right direction etc... as I don't work a full-time job due to my recent battle with 
<persia> elky, In this case, I very much agree with you.  In other cases, I'm more borderline.
<elky_> um... we've skipped?
<amachu1> BUGabundo is in between
<TheMuso> and is not here
<persia> And away.
<lidaobing> amachu1, MOTU council's meeting is after midnight
<persia> lidaobing, We can accomodate: /query me.
<amachu1> lidaobing: you have something to say?
<TheMuso> sorry guys, but I'd like to try and get things moving, so I'm checking in advance whether people are present..
<lidaobing> amachu1, just a little complain on the time
<elky_> TheMuso, ah thanks
<TheMuso> and if not, just skipping them
<lidaobing> amachu1, just ignore this, keep going on
<amachu1> ok
<VK7HSE> So who's up?
<persia> VK7HSE, You.
<amachu1> lidaobing: remember, if you wish you can still apply here, ensure few more testimonials at wiki or people here supporting
<VK7HSE> Hi my name is Scott I'm 33 I live in a small township of Kingston, south of Hobart Tasmania. My current involvement for ubuntu is as a package builder for the application called Me TV. I'm keen beta tester and at this point I've focused on jaunty UNR. I'm also active on most IRC's for AU and attempt where possible to steer people in the right direction etc... as I don't work a full-time job due to my recent battle with 
<lidaobing> amachu1, thanks
<elky_> VK7HSE, your line got cut off at 'battle'
<VK7HSE> as I don't work a full-time job due to my recent battle with cancer, so I have time that I can dedicate...  I too have come to realise that my application is possibly premature...
<TheMuso> VK7HSE: Nice to see a fellow aussie. :)
<VK7HSE> and a lonely Tasmanian at that!
<elky_> yeah. aussie aussie aussie!
<elky_> you're not as lonely down there as you think
<amachu1> :-)
<amachu1> VK7HSE: so you give up this time for the wiki has little in it?
<VK7HSE> I have also just been asked yesterday to give a talk at the taslug meeting (date to set) to give a talk on Me TV ...
<VK7HSE> I realise this and as I mentioned I now feeling that my application may be a little ptremature...
<VK7HSE> *premature
<elky_> VK7HSE, i'm going to be mean and vote a -1 to you now, but, you have potential and i'd like to see you grow that a bit more and come back here in a few months time :)
<TheMuso> VK7HSE: Its great that you have decided to get involved.
<amachu1> VK7HSE: Thanks. Keep up the work you have initiated
<persia> VK7HSE, I'm also -1 for now: come back in a few months once you've gotten a bit more on your page.
<TheMuso> but I agree with elky_, and while I don't mean to be mean, its -1 from me also.
<elky_> TheMuso, cruel to be kind ;)
<TheMuso> elky_: :)
<amachu1> raywang?
<VK7HSE> this is fine it's for me all about learning!...
<elky_> TheMuso, maybe we should get the pied piper of motuland to play a tune in his direction some time too
<amachu1> bizkut: are you there?
<bizkut> yes amachu1 I am here
<TheMuso> elky_: thats a distinct possibility, yes.
<bizkut> Can I start now?
<TheMuso> bizkut: please do
<amachu1> bizkut: go ahead
<bizkut> My name is Hasanuddin Abu Bakar, I am from Malaysia Ubuntu LoCo Team. I am currently customizing linux for NAS system, especially on NSLU2 for simple server usage and storage.
<bizkut> We are here in Malaysia very interested on NAS for running various services and we have very slow internet connection and big downloads can't be finished in 1 day. So, people start looking for devices that can reduce power usage so they don't need to switching ON their PC all day long for downloading files from the Internet.
<bizkut> I just created Ubuntu NSLU2 users group on lauchpad and Rod Whitby, rwhitby like to see Ubuntu on NSLU2 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-nslu2-users
<bizkut> I also optimizing Linux kernel for Acer Aspire One netbook. I packaged the custom kernel with Intel optimization as I contribute here at Malaysia LoCo forum in Malay language http://forums.ubuntu.com.my/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=621&p=4536#p4536
<bizkut> I have do a lot of talks at my university about in matter of softwares and technical about FOSS and Ubuntu attended by students and staffs.
<TheMuso> bizkut: great to hear. Have you considered working with the Ubuntu kernel team to get some of your optimizations/arm work included in official kernel images?
<bizkut> TheMuso, I am currently customize it for user used, I mean for specific using
<TheMuso> bizkut: Right, but that doesn't mean the changes you make are not appropriate to be included in the Ubuntu kernel. I haven't seen the changes myself, so I am only assuming/guessing here.
<elky_> bizkut, what TheMuso is asking is how this is contributing to the rest of the community? are you sharing your work with ubuntu teams like the kernel team?
<bizkut> elky_, currently, I am not sharing with kernel team
<maco> i'm sure the kernel team could use another hand :)
<bizkut> elky_, I only share with community, as their need for the service, because the formal release can't suit their need
<elky_> bizkut, ok, well, i'd really like for you to share with them
<bizkut> i am more than honored to share my work with the kernel developers
<elky_> bizkut, on a community side of things, what do you do with malaysia loco? just moderate forums?
<bizkut> I provide support and tutorial to public for installing linux system on their NAS
<bizkut> I will be at MSC-OSCON 2009 in Kuala Lumpur presenting Ubuntu ARM on NSLU2
<bizkut> elky_, i also work with or help friends, co-workers and family.... the kind of help that is hard to documented on paper
<elky_> bizkut, you're doing really good things, but i'm going to vote a 0 because i'd like to see you help the kernel team.
<bizkut> ok elky_ thanks
<amachu1> bizkut: are there people here supporting you
 * BuffaloSoldier fanclub of bizkut 
<amachu1> i saw words of support long time before..
 * KatieKitty support bizkut
<persia> bizkut, Can you share more about some of the work you're doing with the Forums, wiki, and events?
 * GunbladeIV is behind bizkut for membership
<BuDin> +1
 * SuMarDi likes bizkut works... +1 
<bizkut> persia, I did a lot of tutorial in forum
<bizkut> http://forums.ubuntu.com.my/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=621&p=4536
<GunbladeIV> +1 for bizkut  - he is actively helpful in forums and IRC
<elky_> bizkut, sadly the .my server is still down
<bizkut> and also tutorial how to make Ubuntu packages in Malay
<amachu1> bizkut:  1. Moderating and inviting Malay speakers for using Malaysia Team's wiki and forums
<amachu1>  2. Moderate Forums for Ubuntu Malaysia team
<amachu1>  3. Participate Ubuntu Malaysia Events
<amachu1>  4. Spread Ubuntu knowledge amongs Malaysian Ubuntu users
<amachu1>  5. Answering question on IRC, Forums and mailing list.
<bizkut> elky_, you can try to refresh a few times :D
<amachu1> all these in wiki are generic
<persia> I'm going to vote +0 now: the wiki docs are generic, and the sites to investigate are (unfortunately) down.
<elky_> bizkut, not working for me at all
<BuffaloSoldier> ubuntu.com.my site is really flaky right now... hopefully you guys/gals won't mind hitting refresh a few times
<elky_> BuffaloSoldier, i just hit refresh heaps, but if we all do it, it's only going to cry more
<persia> I'd like to see more development collaboration with the kernel team and the arm folk, but it's really the inability to check anything that blocks my vote.
<bizkut> I hope membership doesn't rely on flaky server
<TheMuso> persia, agreed. +0 as well
<amachu1> bizkut: you say you participate in events, but no link
<bizkut> amachu1, ther is link on my wiki page
<bizkut> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MalaysianTeam/Activities
<elky_> BuffaloSoldier, who is the admin of the .my server?
<bizkut> amachu1, I attend every Malaysia LoCo Team events
<persia> bizkut, To make membership not depends on the flaky server, you will want to document your work more clearly without the server.
<e-jat> http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:RUJRjq55JDAJ:forums.ubuntu.com.my/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D5658+site:http://forums.ubuntu.com.my/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D621%26p%3D4536&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari
<elky_> hurray for google cache
<amachu1> bizkut: yes. again its of the team, and would certainly like to see your role mentioned in those events
<amachu1> +0 from me too for bizkut
<BuffaloSoldier> elky: it's GunbladeIV
<GunbladeIV> elky, it's me maintaining the .my server atm
<e-jat> and me too ..
<GunbladeIV> elky, i still working on solving this issue.
<amachu1> bizkut: its just a matter of updating the wiki which I feel is generic at this time
<bizkut> amachu1, there is me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MalaysianTeam/Activities/2008/MeetUp_July
<amachu1> bizkut: fine
<bizkut> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sumardi/sets/72157606139345009/
<amachu1> I suggest you update them in wiki, and turn out next time
<bizkut> ok amachu1 it's cool
<amachu1> persia: TheMuso: elky: any comments?
<TheMuso> amachu1: no
<elky_> fix up the wiki, and start collaborating with the kernel team, and i'll be much happier next time
<amachu1> any one in the list who were not present at the time of calling, but present right now?
<bizkut> noted. thanks for the advice. i will make better presentation next time
<amachu1> fine..
<persia> bizkut, Good luck, and hope to see you again soon.
<bizkut> persia, ok thanks
<amachu1> elky, TheMuso, persia: anything else to be taken up?
<TheMuso> not from me.
<persia> I think anything else can safely be relegated to the mailing list: it's late.
<TheMuso> only its great we got a quorum.
<BuffaloSoldier> on behalf of the rest of ubuntu-my community... i would like to thank the board for your time, consideration and advice
<persia> Next meeting is on the 28th?
<GunbladeIV> thanks TheMuso , amachu1 , persia , and elky
<maco> TheMuso: you dont usually get a qorum?
 * e-jat too
<amachu1> persia: yes
<e-jat> is next meeting on 28th  ?
<persia> maco, We've done badly the last several meetings, but we've a new plan, which is working (so far).
<elky> my pillow wants to be hugged
<TheMuso> elky: Sounds like a plan.
<amachu1> fine.. if thats all.. let us wind up now..
<elky_> indeed.
<amachu1> congrats for all those who made it and best wishes for the rest in future
<elky_> g'nite all!
<bizkut> goodnite all
<bizkut> :)
<e-jat> nite all ..
<KatieKitty> nite
<amachu1> time to have some fun here
<amachu1> :-)
<amachu1> bye bye..
<e-jat> bye amachu1
<BuffaloSoldier> bye everyone
<TheMuso> night all
 * BUGabundo_mibbit is back and read the backlog....
<BUGabundo_mibbit> just a bit too late
<BUGabundo1> hor
<zul> heylo
<sommer> o//
<kirkland> o/
<bizkut> \\o
<ivoks> o-_
 * mathiaz waves
<kirkland> ivoks: mecca is that way ->
<ivoks> kirkland: that's 'walk like egyptian' :)
<ivoks> or robot :D
<kirkland> :-)
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> all right - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mathiaz> welcome to yet another amazing Ubuntu Server team meeting
<mathiaz> All the exciting stuff we'll talk about today can be found online at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<zul> isnt walk like egyptian by the banshees
<zul> bangles i mean
<mathiaz> last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090407
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Documentation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
<mathiaz> sommer: anything to report wrt to jaunty?
<sommer> mathiaz: don't think there's anything new... everything should be good to go
<mathiaz> great.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Release critical bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release critical bugs
<mathiaz> As you may know we're in final freeze now
<mathiaz> any release critical bugs we should know about?
<mathiaz> kirkland: I've run into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub/+bug/360832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360832 in grub "unable to boot from the second disk of a RAID1 array - error 21" [High,New]
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm
<mathiaz> kirkland: so I'd like to know if you could reproduce it
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'll download the iso and test it now
<mathiaz> kirkland: if so we'd have to decide how important this is
<mathiaz> kirkland: I ran into this issue with a libvirt+kvm setup
<mathiaz> kirkland: is the description of the bug clear enough?
<mathiaz> any other release critical bug to be aware of?
<mathiaz> kirkland: I've also ran into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kvm/+bug/360825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360825 in kvm "kvm 0.84 doesn't create three drives in the guest" [Medium,Triaged]
<mathiaz> kirkland: but that doesn't seem critical
<mathiaz> kirkland: soren already commented on it.
<mathiaz> kirkland: however I'd like to confirm it on a jaunty host (it should be the same)
<soren> it is
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm testing now
<mathiaz> soren: ok - the kvm command line is generated by libvirt
<mathiaz> soren: anyway - your comment is clear about the issue.
<mathiaz> anything else to report wrt to release critical bugs?
<mathiaz> all right - no release critical bugs from the server team then.
<kirkland> mathiaz: is that grub one RC?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm stopping what i'm doing right now to take a look at it
<kirkland> mathiaz: if it's not RC, then i'm going to work on it when i get a chance
<mathiaz> kirkland: well - that's what we should discuss.
<mathiaz> kirkland: first I'd like to get it confirmed by someone else
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, i'll proceed testing
<mathiaz> kirkland: if you can confirm it, we should discuss how important it is.
<mathiaz> kirkland: you can ping later about it
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay
<mathiaz> anyother release critical bug te be aware of?
<ivoks> i'm not aware of any
<mathiaz> allright - let's move on then.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] ISO testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO testing
<mathiaz> so we're getting ready for 9.04 RC scheduled for this Thursday
<mathiaz> ubuntu-server isos are posted on the iso testing tracker
<mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<mathiaz> there are 15 test cases for each isos
<mathiaz> each testcase has a detailed description of what needs to be done
<mathiaz> any help in this area is welcome.
<mathiaz> and of cource we'll start all over next week for the final release of 9.04
<ivoks> i have to ask one more time :/
<ivoks> there's no chance in getting dovecot-postfix into mail stack?
<mathiaz> ivoks: I think it's too late now.
<ivoks> ok
<mathiaz> ivoks: IMO we made a first good step this release cycle
<ScottK-laptop> ivoks: Would you please have a look at Bug #360689.  If I messed up the default config for amavisd, I want to get it fixed post-RC.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360689 in amavisd-new "Default Ubuntu configuration is backscatter source in Jaunty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360689
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's already in main
<ivoks> ScottK-laptop: i will look at it
<ivoks> mathiaz: ok
<ivoks> ScottK-laptop: ah, i see...
<ivoks> ScottK-laptop: i would mark this as 'won't fix'
<mathiaz> ivoks: we'll discuss things further during next UDS
<ivoks> ScottK-laptop: that's RFC behaviour; undelivered mail should be bounced
<ivoks> ScottK-laptop: when undelivered cause of attachments or wrong header
<mathiaz> so help in iso testing is welcomed.
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ideas for Karmic
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ideas for Karmic
<mathiaz> Even thought we're *all* focusing on the Jaunty release schedule for next week, ideas for the next release cycle may cross your mind once in a while
<mathiaz> if so, head to the IdeaPool wiki page and add them
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool
<mie> woi
<mie> menatee mano sero biso pado hase?
<mie> menatee mano sero biso pado hase?
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<mathiaz> BTW if you've just come accross a release critical bug, let us know! ;)
<ScottK-laptop> I did want to mention that we got clamav updated to 0.95.1 and all the rdepends fixed.
<ScottK-laptop> Special thanks to cemc (not here now) and nxvl for their help.
<naley> hai all
<naley> aku nk join meeting leh x
<naley> aku pakai kerabuntu
<naley> mana persia
<naley> nga amachu
<bizkut> naley, what is kerabuntu?
<naley> asl pls persia
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: awesome - is that part of jaunty?
<naley> Amachu
<naley> elky,
<naley> themuso
<ivoks> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
 * naley give -0 to elky  themuso persia 
 * naley give -0 to elky  themuso persia 
<mathiaz> naley: are you here for the Asia/Pacific board?
<naley> nope
<naley> for europe
<mdz> ivoks: what's the trouble?
<mathiaz> naley: well - this is the Ubuntu Server Team meeting.
<mathiaz> naley: I don't know when the European board will have their meetings
<ivoks> mdz: mathiaz is trying the polite approach with naley
<naley> ok
<naley> im from uganda
<naley> stay at europe
<naley> ok i just waste my time here
<naley> see what u all meeting
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Yes.  In Jaunty
<mdz> naley: please be quiet during the meeting.  if you want something else, please go to #ubuntu and ask there
<ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: We got the relevant security fixes into intrepid-security, hardy-backports, and dapper-backports too.
<naley> ok
<mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: great.
<mathiaz> Anything else to add to this open discussion topic?
<naley> ScottK,  : i want ask u about software wireshark
<naley> did u know anything about it
<mathiaz> naley: you should probably ask this question somewhere else
<mathiaz> naley: like in #ubuntu
<naley> where?
<naley> can u tell me
<ivoks> naley: please, use another channel, this one is for meetings
<mathiaz> naley: in #ubuntu
<naley> ok
<naley> tq
<mathiaz> all right - if nothing else is to be added let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> same place, same time, next week?
<sommer> sure
<mathiaz> all right then.
<mathiaz> see you all next week, same time, same place.
<mathiaz> and don't forget to test ubuntu-server isos for Jaunty RC.
<mathiaz> happy testing!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:54.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<manjo> bryce, do you have a xserver ppa for that bug ?
<bryce> manjo: which bug?
<manjo> java+xserver crash
<bryce> manjo, there was one, but it got superseded by one in the same package for a different bug.  Assumed you'd already installed it when I suggested you do so.
<pgraner> Hello everyone time for the Ubutnu Kernel Team Meeting
 * apw arrives
<pgraner> Roll Call:
 * lieb sits up straight
 * sconklin is here
<bradf> YO!
 * rtg is here
<cooloney> hello, bryan is here
 * smb_tp arrives
<pgraner> rtg: you here?
<apw> i saw him say here
<cooloney> me 2
<rtg> pgraner: the part about 'rtg is here' was unclear?
 * ikepanhc1 waves
<pgraner> rtg: sorry missed it
<pgraner> Ok lets get started
<pgraner> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:04. The chair is pgraner.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pgraner> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Items
<pgraner> * awe to inform kernel-team when LPIA kernel testing is complete
<pgraner> sconklin: You have any info
<sconklin> testing is taking place on different platforms as needed for deliveries
<pgraner> sconklin: any idea when it will be 100%
<sconklin> no, and no specific commitment from Lexington QA
<pgraner> awe: any comment on the LPIA testing
<awe> pgraner: i'm trying to get an ETA from cgregan
<pgraner> awe: cool, can you post to kernel-team when you find out?
<awe> we've tested a couple platforms, but the plan was for QA to do the bulk
<awe> pgraner: yes
<pgraner> [ACTION] awe to report to kernel-team list with LPIA testing status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  awe to report to kernel-team list with LPIA testing status
<pgraner> * manjo to ping Arjan on kerneloops submission testing
<pgraner> manjo_: How we doing on that?
<manjo_> I pinged him and got some feed back modified the crasher to use the new function he suggested
<manjo_> the functiuon is
<manjo_> kerneloops_regresstion_testin()
<manjo_> and that will get filtered out
<manjo_> I tested the kernel oops and posted screen shots on my people page
<apw> manjo_, is he happy with the version format we are sending him?  i haven't yet seen the ubuntu kernels pulled out
<manjo_> I can ask
<manjo_> he responded quickly to my questions so I think I cna find out
<manjo_> ca
<manjo_> can
<pgraner> * apw to talk to pitti about tags in apport
<pgraner> apw: I thought you had done that?
<apw> we had a chat on that, and decided on a mod on the tags
<apw> i believe thats already done and may have released too
<pgraner> apw: nice
<pgraner> * pgraner to assign usbserial bug to rtg
<pgraner> And that one is done as well
<rtg> pgraner: its in the SRU queue
<pgraner> rtg: ack
 * smb_tp moans slightly
<pgraner> So the outstanding items look to be all complete
<pgraner> #
<pgraner> ogasawara to issue CFT around ext4 data loss patches
<pgraner> #
<pgraner> sconklin bring up archiving of Hardy/Intrepid OEM LPIA trees after the sprint
<pgraner> #
<pgraner> sconklin coordinate testing by the OEM team for Hardy and Jaunty lpia
<pgraner> #
<pgraner> apw, ogasawara and smb discuss regression lists at the sprint
<sconklin> not really complete
<smb_tp> apw, Did we?
<apw> i think the lpia work may have pushed our ogasawara chat out smb_tp
<pgraner> sconklin: what do you need to complete?
<sconklin> we can't archive the old repos until everything is off of them, we're working on that but no definite schedule
 * smb_tp nods
<pgraner> sconklin: ok I'll drop off the agenda can you keep everyone posted on the weekly meeting as you have something of interest to report?
<sconklin> and I'm still coordinating testing of hardy and jaunty lpia, so that's ok, though no jaunty testing has happened that I'm aware of
<sconklin> yes, please drop it.
<awe> sconklin: we have been doing some jaunty unr testing recently...
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to drop LPIA tree archiving from agenda, sconklin to report as significant items surface
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to drop LPIA tree archiving from agenda, sconklin to report as significant items surface
<sconklin> awe: great, thanks!
<awe> sconklin: dell mini works great.  hp mini not so great
<pgraner> [ACTION] ogasawara smb_tp apw to discuss regression lists
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara smb_tp apw to discuss regression lists
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
<apw> ack
<smb_tp> ack, remind us next week
<pgraner> rtg: can you give us a status of whats lacking, in the queue, etc...?
<rtg> pgraner: AKAIK everything looks good. ext4 has a couple of minor issues, but we'll SRU them.
<rtg> AFAIK even
<rtg> I've heard no hollering from the release team
<pgraner> rtg, apw: any update on the Intel graphics lockup issues?
<rtg> pgraner: its gonna be an SRU when upstream findas a fix.
<apw> from my side, i've just seen one myself, which was definatly a hard lock in fri
<apw> dri
<pgraner> I saw a troubleshooting email from bryce
<rtg> Bryce is working with them on it
<bryce> heya
<apw> we seem to have above average lockups with i915 based systems right now
<bryce> re: freeze issue, we're kind of stuck on it, but I think I narrowed it to a regression in mesa
<rtg> bryce: it has to do with tiling, right?
<apw> wondered if you have any suggestions at this juncture
<bryce> well, there are several different freezes, one of which is with tiling
<pgraner> apw: mine did it again today during a virt desktop switch
<apw> pgraner, arrrg
<bryce> the mesa one is the "main" one people are running into right now, and only affects i965 it seems
<apw> mine was different to yours, just a plain hang, but ssh was ok
<pgraner> apw: mine was wedged hard, took a powercycle to get it back
<rtg> mem corruption could exhibit a variety of symptoms
<pgraner> apw: had an uptime of a few days
<bryce> but I have some news on solving freeze issues in general
<apw> hung in dri_vm_<something>
<bryce> upstream Intel has been working on a kernel patch + utils for getting better debug info out of freezes
<pgraner> bryce: sounds hopeful
<apw> bryce, as we appear to be able to tell when its hung at times, any chance we can reset it somehow?
<bryce> I've documented what I know at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze
<bryce> apw: that I don't know
<manjo_> bryce, java+xserver crash ?
<pgraner> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/Freeze
<bryce> but I think for karmic, between the X and kernel teams, we may be able to do a hunting season on freeze bugs and close a bunch
<pgraner> manjo_: Intel has a fix, they will be sending it to kernel-team for a SRU inclusion
<pgraner> bryce: you want to do a hw workshop at UDS with that purpose?
<bryce> manjo_: I posted a patch for that to my ppa a while ago but guess you didn't download it in time; a patch for another bug seems to have superseded it
<bryce> pgraner: that'd be great
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to schedule a UDS session for X lockup bug squashing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to schedule a UDS session for X lockup bug squashing
<bryce> pgraner: the kernel patch is against the current mainline kernel, and dunno how easy it would be to backport
<pgraner> bryce: I told yingying that they would need to backport and she said ok, so I expect to see it resurface as a SRU
<bryce> pgraner: but I'm thinking at the point we can get a patched kernel in a ppa or something, I could start engaging freeze reporters to collect the data and work with upstream to sort them out
<bryce> excellent
<sconklin> There's also a hard lockup X bug that we're chasing in litl, based on hardy
<sconklin> could be poulsbo related, but that's speculation
<apw> bryce, there are two or three patches in i915 which seem to relate to taking locks in the wrong order which can trigger if there is a page fault, any feel for if they are a possible cause?
<bryce> apw: well that certainly sounds suspicious
<pgraner> Ok we'll move on
<bryce> ok thanks
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Suspend/Resume
<MootBot> New Topic:  Suspend/Resume
<apw> bryce, i'll get with you offline, and see if the things that its talking about are frequently used or not
<bryce> okies
<ogasawara> pgraner: we're getting flooded with new bugs
<pgraner> apw: any progress?
<pgraner> ogasawara: any pattern or just random crap hardware?
<ogasawara> I did a quick lp querry - http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/tmp/suspend-bugs-since-beta.txt
<apw> we are being drowned.  i think we have one new bug type and we may well get to the bottom of that
<ogasawara> pgraner: no pattern that I can discern, although quite a few nvidia pieces of hw
<apw> i also think i see apport will be off at release, so we shouldn't dissappear without a trace at least
<pgraner> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/tmp/suspend-bugs-since-beta.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/tmp/suspend-bugs-since-beta.txt
<pgraner> ogasawara: that is quite high
<apw> i think we can say we learned that suspend/resume is more of an issue than we thought
<apw> and that its widly dispersed over the factors we have analysed so far
<pgraner> apw: so 60+ random notebooks is not a good sample
<manjo_> were we able to filter bugs based on HW ? iirc ogasawara was trying something like that ...
<pgraner> ogasawara: hw db helpful at all?
<apw> we did it on basic model and its was all over the map, but otherwise we have not yet been able to get the info in a searchable form (to my knowledge)
<ogasawara> manjo_: I was able to dup a few based on vendor and product id, but not extremely helpful to reduce the total number
<pgraner> apw, ogasawara: so we are not seeing one or two specific problematic pieces of hw? Its just that random?
<ogasawara> pgraner: hw db is still not where we need it.  right now it requires we give it a list of bugs first and then analyzes the hw profiles.
<sconklin> apw: didn't we speculate that a high number were from X hangs?
<manjo_> I triaged a few and some of them reported that it did not work once or twice ... but otherwise worked ok
<apw> sconklin, the bugs which triggered that were fixed as far as i know
<pgraner> manjo_: do you  have some cycles to deep dive and see if you can find some patterns on this?
<apw> at least in general support, even if we ignore all proprietry drivers
<apw> we are still all over the map
<manjo_> pgraner, yeah I can look at them
<sconklin> apw: but do we have any way of identifying the lingering bugs that may have resulted?
<pgraner> manjo_: great thanks
<apw> sconklin, not 100% sure we do electronically at least
<apw> we might be able to add something to the testing to figure it out, though i would expect those not to trigger apport
<pgraner> [ACTION] manjo to deep dive on suspend/resume bugs to find patterns
<MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo to deep dive on suspend/resume bugs to find patterns
<bradf> i've been working on some python code to get to the raw hw-db info
<ogasawara> bradf: any progress?
<bradf> make it a little more usefull,
<bradf> yes, made some progress last night
<bradf> still a ways to go
<manjo_> bradf, each and every bug has a different model/make of laptop
<bradf> manjo_: yes, but it would be nice to see if there are common drivers/hw
<manjo_> so I guess the exercise is to figure out what component fails most often
<pgraner> manjo_: looking for issues in common hw/drivers would be helpful, and I was hoping the hw db could do that, but not quite yet
<apw> bradf, that would rock if we could tell something like that
<bradf> apw, that's my goal
<pgraner> Ok we'll move on and take this offline
<manjo_> yep I like that idea instead of looking for product IDs
<pgraner> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<pgraner> bradf, amitk: How are we looking?
<bradf> pgraner, I don't know of any issues
<amitk> Nothing radically new going on there. I am busy splitting up the mx51 patches for upstream
<amitk> and working on the ppoll patch for upstream + SRU
<pgraner> amitk: great...
<pgraner> sconklin: I'll skip LPIA today to cover jaunty bug status good with you?
<sconklin> ok
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Status
<ogasawara> no show stoppers I'm seeing so far
<pgraner> ogasawara: how do think Tues. bug day for the kernel team is working?
<pgraner> ogasawara: I've had positive feedback from Canonical folks so far, nothing from the community tho
<ogasawara> pgraner: seems to be going well from a random sampling of the list of bugs
<pgraner> Kernel Team... Thoughts. Working well for you guys?
<ogasawara> pgraner: I think for the next I should add a section for community participation
<apw> pgraner, for myself its just a random addition of 20 bugs to my buglist, it means those random bugs get looked at
<smb_tp> Not found too many simple ones on my list, though
<apw> but that means that 20 bugs off our priority list don't.  its cirtainly a trade off
<lieb> I'm surprised some of them haven't composted by now ;)
<bradf> i'm wondering, given the discussion in rtg's email if this is wasted effort right now and makes more sense during development
<apw> yeah i was hoping more would be 'already fixed' but its a low percentage
<cooloney> i agree with apw
<apw> bradf, though now is when we have less pressure probabally and so more time
<bradf> apw: understood
 * rtg finds it a refreshing break from the drudgery of having to think weighty thoughts all day.
<pgraner> apw: really, I would have thought that upstream goodness would have taken care of quite a few
<apw> pgraner, not particually objecting to the format tho.
<cooloney> i can just asked them to try jaunty kernel and report the result
<cooloney> for some bugs
<apw> pgraner, that was my hope too, but i am finding a fiar number that need work and are still valid
<apw> i think community help in the future is a good plan
<pgraner> apw: do we have upstream bugs on the same issues?
<apw> not always upstream bugs no, as they seem to be likely 'our fault'
<apw> config issues, or backports for example, valid bugs in the main
<pgraner> apw: yea I was hoping that wasn't the issue
<apw> stiring the bucket is probabally a good plan overall, even if it smells bad
<pgraner> Let keep going for a few weeks and see what we can come up with.
<pgraner> ogasawara: can you arrange for a community bug day to collide with this on kernel bugs?
<apw> it will be interesting to get a view on the same bug list in a week, to see how well it has happened
<ogasawara> pgraner: yup, I'll do that for the next one
<smb_tp> Right, would it be possible to get the list formatted like our other buglist?
<pgraner> [ACTION] ogasawara to schedule community bug days to coincide with kernel-team bug days
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to schedule community bug days to coincide with kernel-team bug days
<ogasawara> apw: I'll try to get out a summary of the progress that was made
<pgraner> Ok, lets keep going since we are almost done for this meeting... next up...
<ogasawara> smb_tp: shouldn't be hard, I'll update it for next time
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Select next meeting chair...
<smb_tp> ogasawara, cool
<MootBot> New Topic:  Select next meeting chair...
<pgraner> Who wants to raise their hand?
<pgraner> or... who hasn't done it yet?
 * pgraner looks at the new guys
<bradf> pgraner, can do
<apw> is this meeting during release week
<pgraner> apw: we haven't set meeting date yet
<pgraner> bradf: you have it
<pgraner> [ACTION] bradf to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bradf to chair next meeting
<bradf> pgraner, ACK
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Next Meeting date
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting date
<pgraner> as apw pointed out the next one would fall on release week so lets pick it up the following week, on the 28th of April
<pgraner> Same time and place
<apw> ack
<smb_tp> wfm
<rtg> same bat channel
<lieb> ack
<manjo_> k
<bradf> ack
<ikepanhc1> ack
<amitk> ack
<pgraner> bradf: can you send out a cancellation email next week, and the reminder the Monday prior to the meeting
<pgraner> bradf: and I'll have the agenda ready for you
<bradf> pgraner, will do
<pgraner> [ACTON] bradf to email cancellation & reminder emails
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to get agenda ready for next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to get agenda ready for next meeting
<pgraner> [ACTION] Next meeting Tue, 28 April 1700 UTC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Next meeting Tue, 28 April 1700 UTC
<pgraner> Ok everyone, any issues, questions etc...?
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion/Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion/Questions
<pgraner> Then I guess we will call this one done!
<pgraner> Thanks everyone
<manjo_> later
<pgraner> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:54.
<comm_a_nder> hi there
<mcas> hi everyone
<Riddell> hello
<davmor2> hello
<blizzz> hi
 * Quintasan waves
 * a|wen_ waves to everyone
<Riddell> hmm, bit of a lack of council
<Riddell> ooh there's one :)
<Nightrose> sorry ;-)
<Nightrose> irssi was acting up
<Riddell> well I guess we should start with just the two of us, other council members can review the logs and vote offline
<Riddell> did someone have to go first?  had a flight to catch?
<comm_a_nder> me
<Riddell> ok let's start with you comm_a_nder
 * comm_a_nder is sitting at airport and hails to umts sticks
<Riddell> who are you and what exciting stuff do you do for Kubuntu?
<comm_a_nder> my name is robert frieÃleben
<comm_a_nder> i am 35 years old, living in dresden germany, married, one kid
<comm_a_nder> i am using kubuntu since hoary
 * Nightrose wonders if she met comm_a_nder before
<Nightrose> hi JontheEchidna
<comm_a_nder> my jobs are: admin at kubuntu-de.org forums
<JontheEchidna> hi
<comm_a_nder> head admin of kubuntu-de.org server
<Riddell> he has root!
<comm_a_nder> and doing promototion for kubuntu at booths around saxony
<comm_a_nder> so fare what i am doing
<comm_a_nder> i got root! indeed :D
 * Nightrose is afraid
<Nightrose> :D
<Nightrose> comm_a_nder: which events did you attend for kubuntu so far?
<comm_a_nder> free times chemnitzer linux tage and two times linux info tag dresden
<Nightrose> i see - nice
<Nightrose> did you enjoy it?
<Riddell> how is the kubuntu-de community doing?
<comm_a_nder> yepp, if you would know what chemnitz does in catering for us ...
<Nightrose> heh i heard about the catering... - i bet froscon is better though :D
<comm_a_nder> at the moment we are in my mind in a phase of consolitation, lack of personal, lack of time but we are trying best on our way
<Riddell> anyone else from kubuntu-de here and able to vouch for comm_a_nder?
<blizzz> of course :)
<blizzz> comm_a_nder is our server pope, gives excellent support in the forum and helps at booths, too. he is active for years in our community and is a comfortable and clever  guy.
<Nightrose> ah right - tell us a little about the current status of kubuntu-de
<mcas> i can only agree to blizzz
<Riddell> comm_a_nder: have you tried jaunty?
<comm_a_nder> jepp, on my netbook, works good for me (i dont need a good translation though - thats one of the "not-so-goods" at the moment
<Nightrose> comm_a_nder: what are your plans for the future with regards to kubuntu and kubuntu-de?
<comm_a_nder> at the moment my job takes most of my time (so i sit here on airpot waiting for my next flight)
<comm_a_nder> but i will do spend more time on translation, and if i got the time for it begin to maintain some interesting packages (for my job e.g.)
<comm_a_nder> additionally to my commitments i am doing at the moment (server and forum)
<Riddell> comm_a_nder: we need more people to watch out for when our translations infrastructure breaks.  that seems to happen too often
<Nightrose> can you tell us what that job is? or are you a spy and it is top-secret? :P
<Riddell> well I'll give a solid +1 for running the kubuntu-de bits
<comm_a_nder> no i am working at a consultancy, my job there is maintaining theire databeses -postgresql due to my advice :) and it-consulting at customers
<Riddell> plus he's got root so who knows what'll happen if I don't :)
<comm_a_nder> :D
<Nightrose> haha
<Nightrose> alright
<Nightrose> I'll give a +1 as well - keep up the good work
<Riddell> so waiting on one more vote, we'll poke some more council members when they appear
<Nightrose> it'd be nice to get more updates from the german kubuntu team btw
<Riddell> thanks for putting yourself up, have a nice flight
<Riddell> Quintasan: want to go next?
<comm_a_nder> thanks all
<Quintasan> Riddell: okay
<Riddell> Quintasan: tell us about your contributions to Kubuntu
<Quintasan> Apart from the fixing bugs in KDE packages I'm doing many minor tasks like missing desktop entries. I'm also traslating kubuntu-docs (fresh member of ubuntu-l10n-pl)
<JontheEchidna> yeah, the other day he added a .desktop file to starfighter
<Riddell> and he gave me a perfect debdiff for semantik
<Riddell> Quintasan: actually I note our semantik package is out of date if you're looking for something to get into packaging
<Riddell> Quintasan: how long have you been contributing to Kubuntu?
<Nightrose> Quintasan: can you tell us a little about yourself?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MichalZajac
<Nightrose> ah thx :)
<Quintasan> Riddell: hmm about 3 months (or more, depends when the last meeting was) :)
<claydoh> howdy, I am late :)
<Quintasan> claydoh: Hi :)
<Nightrose> Quintasan: ohhhh you are packaging widgets... - are you planning on getting them into kubuntu? and do you have plans to package more of them?
<Nightrose> hi claydoh
<Quintasan> Nightrose: now I'm packaging them for fun but if they are going to be in a usable state then why not?
<Riddell> Quintasan: what attracts you to Kubuntu over other distros or ubuntu variants?
<Nightrose> :) great
<Quintasan> well using Gentoo was fun but rebuilding system every week was no fun, I think the main reason is KDE4 and great community
<nixternal> hola
<Nightrose> heya nixternal
<Quintasan> nixternal: hi :3
 * Nightrose doesn't have any more questions for Quintasan 
<Nightrose> anyone else?
<Riddell> I'm going to give Quintasan a +1 for multiple handy and interesting contributions
 * Nightrose seconds the +1 hoping she'll get some more widgets packaged ;-)
 * nixternal gives +1 for comm_a_nder - Kubuntu DE! The one and only :)
<Nightrose> *hint* *hint*
<nixternal> +1 on Quintasan
<Riddell> so Quintasan and comm_a_nder get membership
<Riddell> awooga
<JontheEchidna> \o/
<Quintasan> Thanks all :)
<a|wen_> congratulations Quintasan and comm_a_nder !
<Riddell> no kb9vqf today
<Nightrose> welcome to the kubuntu team :)
<claydoh> sweet! congrats Quintasan and comm_a_nder !
<Riddell> mcas: fancy a grilling?
<mcas> of course :-)
<blizzz> congrts Quintasan
<Riddell> mcas: tell us about your Kubuntu life
<mcas> hi my name is marcus asshauer i am 28 years old and live in germany
<mcas> i use kubuntu for 2 or 3 years now and came to kubuntu-de.org last year
<mcas> so since last year i am member of ubuntu-bugcontrol and i try to mostly triage on kde/kubuntu bugs and upstream kde bugs
<Riddell> mcas: is that rewarding or does it feel like a never ending thankless task?
<Nightrose> do you triage specific applications?
<mcas> actually i am working on the german translation of kubuntu-docs, together with tscheesy and denis as well as help from the german-l10n-de team (i am member of the team since a few days)
<mcas> i triage no specific applications
<mcas> i think it is a never ending story but i think some day anyone will say thank you ;-)
<mcas> for kubuntu-de.org i'll do some differnt jobs like forum moderator, coordinating our "bug" team, doing some php/css hacks for our webteam, admin of our kubuntu-de.org server, doing editorial work and i am member of our community council since Jan. 09
<seele> can someone give me the meeting agenda link?
 * nixternal notes that Quintasan and mcas have been rocking doc translations and bug hunting...makes me happy :)
<Riddell> mcas: what does the kubuntu-de community council do?
<Nightrose> mcas: what is your impression of the current state of kubuntu-de?
<Riddell> seele: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<seele> Riddell: thanks
<mcas> but back to the bugs... i think i have the craziest colors around
<mcas> Riddell: we are coordinating the work of the different teams and trying to do the best for kubuntu-de and kubuntu
<Riddell> mcas: do you think that language can be a barrier to kubuntu contributions?
<mcas> Nightrose: i think we could need more helping hands but we still can do some new things like the translation or our kde 4 wiki action
<seele> mcas: how much are you involved with upstream bugs if at all? or just through launchpad?
<mcas> Riddell: i don't think so but i hope we can help out with our german team if it is so
<mcas> seele: at the moment only through launchpad but i reported some kde bugs when i find them outside kubuntu ;-)
<Riddell> mcas: how's jaunty for you?
<mcas> i use jaunty for a few weeks now and it feels great much better than intrepid
<Riddell> great
<mcas> i just works ;-) and thats a great state i think
<mcas> s/i/it/
<Riddell> anyone else from kubuntu-de able to recommend mcas ?
<blizzz> here
<blizzz> mcas is currently the most active guy at kubuntu-de.org and does fantastic work in several areas. He is irreplacable at out editorial team, leading the bug $
<blizzz> team and has done grand work in translating kubuntu docs with tscheesy and denis recently. Furthermore he is active in the forum and has been hellping out at booths, too.
<nixternal> blizzz mcas and all Kubuntu DE:  you guys are definitely rocking! I would like to see the entire group get more involved in #kubuntu-devel, just add the vel to your team channel...all of you helping out would be amazing!
<Riddell> I'm going with a +1 then for being an important part of our best loco team
<Nightrose> mcas: which events did you attend for kubuntu?
<nixternal> mcas has rocked the documentation bug finding and translations.....so that is definitely huge in my book :)
<nixternal> +1 for me!
<nixternal> Riddell: our only LoCo team right?
<blizzz> nixternal: thanks,  i'll mail that round :)
<Riddell> depends on who you ask, we have plenty of loco activity around, mostly within general ubuntu teams
<mcas> Nightrose: only one event froscon last year but i hope i can go to more events and froscon 09 is marked in my calendar
<seele> +1 i wasn't here for the entire conversation but what i heard is good
<Nightrose> +1 from me as well - we always need people to bug the bugs
<Nightrose> ;-)
<Riddell> congratulations mcas
<blizzz> congrats mcas :)
<mcas> yeah
<mcas> thank you :-D
<Riddell> JontheEchidna has an egenda item
<mcas> \o/
<e-jat> congrats mcas
<claydoh> mcas: hooray!
<Quintasan> mcas: grats :3
<JontheEchidna> that one was actually for the last meeting...
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: seems valid now too :)
<bizkut> hey congrates mcas !
<JontheEchidna> heh, that it does :)
<Riddell> JontheEchidna: was there an outcome to the network manager worries?
<JontheEchidna> not really, I don't know enough about networking to really effectively triage it
<mcas> Quintasan: grats to you too :-D
 * nixternal wants to start a KDE team here in Chicago
<JontheEchidna> It's sort've a "pick your poison" between knetworkmanager and the plasmoid
 * e-jat too
 * seele has converted several ubuntu users in MD/DC to kubuntu :)
<e-jat> seele: me also .. include my manager in office :)
<Riddell> I tried the plasmoid from svn recently and it had even more obvious rendering bugs
<JontheEchidna> KNetworkManager doesn't play too terribly well with NM 0.7, but at least works (aside from general bugginess and the inability to use statically-defined IPs)
<JontheEchidna> and the plasmoid has trouble with certain encryption protocols
<nixternal> hrmm, nm plasmoid has been working well for me, except one minor rendering issue where some of the essid's fall below where you can't see them
<JontheEchidna> nixternal: yeah, that's known to upstream
<Riddell> I think our main critical bug is this translations issue which I'm at least able to recreate now
<nixternal> other than that I was surprised at just how well it worked for me
<blizzz> there is also no way to say "hey reconnect me" with the applet, is there?
 * kb9vqf waves
<Riddell> oh and on the live CD I've seen it fail to load the desktop plasmoid when the ioslave fails, that's really ugly
<nixternal> and there is mr. kde 3.5 :)
<claydoh> hi kb9vqf
<nixternal> Riddell: ahhh, that explains what we saw yesterday at a friends house with the live CD
<kb9vqf> sorry for my tardiness, Internet connection problems
<Riddell> nixternal: what happened there?
 * nixternal notes never to trust millionaire friends who ask you to help them move and it should only take a few hours....left at noon, home between 3am and 4am :/
<Riddell> ..I mean with Kubuntu
<nixternal> the desktop plasmoid being really ugly
<nixternal> reboot with live cd and it was fine
<Riddell> nixternal: big X in the middle and "ioslave died" message?
<nixternal> yup
<Riddell> mm, worrying that
<nixternal> err, saw the big X
<nixternal> not the ioslave message though
<Riddell> I don't really have any ideas what to do about it
<Riddell> ok we have some more memberships to do
<Riddell> e-jat: ready?
<e-jat> Riddell: ok
<Riddell> e-jat: can you tell us who you are and what you do for Kubuntu please
<Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/fenris
<e-jat> * FullName : Khairul Aizat Kamarudzzaman
<e-jat> * IRC Nickname : fenris @ e-jat
<e-jat> * Age: 26 years
<e-jat> * Status: Single
<e-jat> * Working as: RnD Engineer
<e-jat> at Open Source Competency Center http://www.oscc.org.my
<e-jat> i just start change to kubuntu in past 2 month ago
<e-jat> my involvement in kubuntu still new ..
<e-jat> previously i help matr with some pcap file to solve kopete issues
<e-jat> testing up kde 4.2.1 since jaunty alpha 2 until now beta release
<bizkut> cool :D
<e-jat> hope to get in kde developement soon with guide by mentor
<Riddell> and you're an existing ubuntu member I see
<e-jat> im also now promoting kubuntu
<e-jat> to my officemate n manager .. and not forget end user
<seele> why do you like kubuntu?
<e-jat> seele: previouly in gnome i use to modify alot to look my desktop nice ..
<e-jat> but with kubuntu .. i use default theme enough for me :)
<e-jat> with the rocking plasmoid at desktop ..
<e-jat> and kubuntu applications ..
<Riddell> e-jat: you say you have "Testing, compile & install plasmoid plugin"  do you plan to package any of those?
<Nightrose> e-jat: can you tell us a little about the free software situation in malaysia? how about kubuntu?
<e-jat> yes .. if i get chance to do it
<e-jat> Nightrose: currently .. ubuntu are more popular ..
<Nightrose> ok
<e-jat> since they (end user) not enough awareness about kubuntu n etc
<Nightrose> do a lot of people use free software? or are there still very few users?
<e-jat> Nightrose: a lot
<e-jat> now in education , government
<Nightrose> that's great to hear
<seele> e-jat: you said you have only been involved in kubuntu for the past 2 months, were you doing anything for ubuntu before then?
<e-jat> we at OSCC as consultant to the government agencies
<e-jat> seele: ive use kde before while in fedora back few years..
<e-jat> but before the 2month with kde .. ive spend it with ubuntu ..
<e-jat> maybe will stick with kubuntu after this ..
<seele> use ubuntu or were you doing testing for ubuntu too?
<e-jat> seele: yes .. but in different way ..
<e-jat> my primary is kubuntu
<e-jat> and my office desktop is ubuntu
<e-jat> but i spend almost of my time with my laptop ( kubuntu )
<Riddell> we should make a decision
 * Nightrose gives a +1 for promoting kubuntu and other free software in education
<nixternal> +1 from me
<seele> +0 i would like to see e-jat participate in the community longer. we've rejected membership for people who were involved longer on the same basis
<kb9vqf> +0 same reason
<e-jat> i agreed with seele
<seele> e-jat: i think you are doing good work, but it would be good if you participated in the devel community a bit longer
<seele> if anything, to make sure you still like us after 6 months ;)
 * nixternal notes that e-jat has been in the greater part of the ubuntu community for almost a year, and is an ubuntu member
<e-jat> seele: :)
<Riddell> some of your contributions aren't clear cut kubuntu contributions and it's hard to tell how committed you are to Kubuntu, I wonder if I can give a +.5 for those reasons
<Riddell> the vote is positive so you get membership :)
<e-jat> thanks ..
<Riddell> e-jat: you should join us in #kubuntu-devel and become part of the developer community
<nixternal> stupid laptop keeps freezing
<e-jat> Riddell: yes i will .. thanks ..
<Riddell> e-jat: and lots of CD testing needed over the next couple of weeks, all help with that is appreciated
<davmor2> nixternal: take it out of the icebox then ;)
<e-jat> i will .. thanks alot to all ..
<Riddell> kb9vqf: are you wanting to do membership today?
<kb9vqf> ?
 * nixternal throws an ice cube at davmor2 :p
<Riddell> kb9vqf: you're on the wiki page but that may be because nobody cleaned it last time
<kb9vqf> Riddell: Noone cleaned it up
<nixternal> Riddell: he is a member already :p
<nixternal> haha
<kb9vqf> nixternal: thanks! :)
<Riddell> volunteer needed to clean the wiki page after this meeting :)
<kb9vqf> Riddell: Just reset it?  I can do that...
<e-jat> kb9vqf: :)
<Riddell> any other business?
<e-jat> thanks Riddell , nixternal , seele n Nightrose
 * kb9vqf wonders if there is any way to get mirrors for the KDE3.5 livecd
<Riddell> then I think we're done, countdown to release is 9 days I believe
<Riddell> thanks everyone
<blizzz> a countdown banner is missing
<Riddell> artists welcome
<Riddell> kb9vqf: hrm
<kb9vqf> Riddell: If that should be continued outside of this channel I'll hop over to #kubuntu-devel
<kb9vqf> Riddell: I'm just getting slammed here with all the downloads
 * e-jat guys .. i think .. i need to offline .. since it already 4.20 am in MY :) .... c u guys later ..
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-15
<pleia2> hey folks, we're just rounding up one more council member and then we'll get ready to start this Americas board meeting :)
<nhandler> Isn't it meeting time?
<pleia2> nhandler: yes, gathering up council members
<nhandler> pleia2: nixternal should be around, I just talked with him
<pleia2> nhandler: thanks :) we just need one more for quorum and he hasn't replied to PMs
<nhandler> Hey cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Hi nhandler
 * mterry waves at cody-somerville
 * cody-somerville waves.
<pleia2> sorry all, still trying to get one more
<pleia2> ok, we're ready to go
<nixternal> hola
<xq> hey nix
<nixternal> well howdy
<nhandler> nixternal: About time you showed up ;)
<pleia2> ok, looks like kiko isn't here
<pleia2> xq: you're up!
<nixternal> shush nhandler ;p
<xq> Hi
<Technoviking> nixternal: your late, no burrito for you
 * lamalex will have his burrito
<pleia2> xq: post a short introduction and links :)
<xq> I'm xq / Craig Huffstetler. Been using Ubuntu Linux, among other distros, for a while and contributing to the community. I help on Answers and in Ubuntu Bugs...and lead the Ubuntu US SC LoCo.
<xq> Links...
<pleia2> wiki will do
<xq> https://launchpad.net/~xq
<xq> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CraigHuffstetler
<nixternal> jesus, let me borrow some of that karma xq :)
<pleia2> xq: where would you say you're most active?
<xq> My LoCo and in Answers, I am trying to focus mostly on my LoCo
<pleia2> cool, any upcoming events loco-wise?
<xq> But in general I like to spread out a lot of my time because I am currently (in all honesty) unemployed so this is where I siphon a lot of my free time.
<xq> A lot of the current LoCo activities are about raising awareness in the community, so most of the activities (for me and members) reflect this -- whether it be with schools or community groups
<nixternal> mmmm burrito
<nixternal> as a matter of fact Technoviking...that is what I shall eat after this meeting :)
<pleia2> xq: any specific events coming up?
<xq> A virtual jaunty release party
<xq> To be honest, we tried to plan a jaunty release party but due to the spread of members across our state we had no response to the major active areas
<xq> So, we had to make it virtual
<pleia2> yeah, that happens
<xq> So, the next step is to get people together later on in the year
<cody-somerville> Is South Carolina an official LoCo?
<xq> It's sad in my eye
<xq> Not yet cody, but we would like to become one this year. It's on our road map.
<nixternal> does the loco have any official ubuntu members yet?
<xq> yes
<xq> DaveBush2 / myrtlebeachbums (irc name)
<nixternal> heh
<nhandler> xq: Your LP profile shows that you are a member of the QA team. What QA-related tasks do you perform?
<xq> nhandler: I have participated in the last two testing days
<pleia2> xq: thanks for your help with the US Teams this year :) it's nice to have you so eager to pitch in with things
<charlie-tca> I would like to give a wave for xq in helping with testing
<xq> nhandler: I also like to help on bugs when able, across the board, and help "triage" them
<nhandler> xq: Any plans then to join the Bug Control team?
<xq> nhandler: I get a lot exposure to bugs from the Answers forum as well, whether it be a new bug or linking an existing bug that should have more detail in it
<charlie-tca> He has been helping out and it is doing a good job when he can
<cody-somerville> xq, Where can I find logs of your loco meetings?
<xq> nhandler: I may, but I didn't think my work was done in ubuntu-quality. I have quite a few ideas for helping out more there (including policies/wiki pages) and perhaps even writing some pieces.
<xq> cody-somerville: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SouthCarolinaTeam/Meetings
<cody-somerville> xq, What are three things the South Carolina LoCo Team done to contribute back to the larger Ubuntu community that you're most proud of?
<xq> cody-somerville: I'm very proud of my members. I think that everything starts with the members & community (no matter the community). That may be number one. They contribute back to the larger community as a whole in ways that I can't as one person.
<cody-somerville> xq, Could you give some specific examples of work done that specifically you've participated in?
<xq> cody-somerville: Secondly, I would say some of our information spreading in the community (publishing articles in local newspapers, such as an article published in a local college newspaper) to raise awareness about Ubuntu and open source
<cody-somerville> Have a link to that?
<xq> cody-somerville: Also, participating in FLPC (Free Linux PC).
<xq> The Carolinian at USC Upstate
<xq> One second, let me see if it is online
<xq> Free Linux PC is at http://www.freelinuxpc.org/
<cody-somerville> I'm actually looking for Ubuntu specific examples, not so much FLOSS ones.
<xq> THe USC Upstate example was me going back and forth attempting to get a computer lab turned into Ubuntu instead of Windows with the Dean of the dept.
<xq> I was an alumni of the college
 * cody-somerville nods.
<pleia2> xq: cool, when was this?
<xq> It has not been converted yet, but I am still in contact with them. The last meeting was two weeks ago.
<itnet7> Nice! xq
<xq> It just revved up student interest with Live CDs. It may ultimately come down to dual booting, but we'll see. There are other professors on board that I knew while I was there.
<dantalizing> is it too late to get my plug in for xq?  i am us teams mentor for SC, and in the time i've observed them, xq has always been positive and friendly.  He is working hard to get the SC team organized and approved.  He is a great representative of the Ubuntu community.
<pleia2> thanks dantalizing :)
<pleia2> +1 from me, looking forward to seeing SC get approved this year! :)
<dantalizing> i'm not sure SC needs a mentor... SC is moving forward thanks in great part to xq
<Technoviking> +1 here, good work, please continue the great work in LP answers
<cody-somerville> xq, +1 for a good start to becoming a great contributor.
<nixternal> +1
<nixternal> derr
<nhandler> Congratulations xq! Keep up the good work.
<pleia2> congrats xq, welcome! :)
<charlie-tca> congratulations, xq
<xq> Thanks guys
<itnet7> Congrats xq !!
<mterry> :)
<ssweeny> congrats xq
<xq> And gals
<pleia2> doesn't look like
<pleia2> wolter is here
<mterry> me me me
<pleia2> mterry: you're up!
<mterry> OK, intro: I'm a long time user (since ubuntu started), only seriously started contributing in the last year
<mterry> I work for Canonical on OEM customization stuff (like Dell Mini)
<mterry> Links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/Membership
<mterry> https://launchpad.net/~mterry
<mterry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/Uploads
<mterry> I work on lots of different stuff, notably the install experience (ubiquity, oem-config), and GNOME stuff
<mterry> done
<mterry> I do more upstream work than Ubuntu, but I'm trying to tip that balance
<pleia2> how long has deja-dup been around?
<mterry> Since October...  6 months?
<mterry> It's in Jaunty now
<pleia2> ah ok, I hadn't heard about it but it sounds very cool :)
<itnet7> Nice contributions mterry!!
<mterry> It is!  ;)
<mterry> Thanks, itnet7
<pleia2> mterry: I see you have MOTU on your list for goals, is that something you think you'll get into this year?
<mterry> pleia2: I'd like to.  I think it's achievable
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> +1 from me, fantastic work mterry (and I'm looking forward to giving deja-dup a spin!)
<nixternal> +1 here
<mterry> pleia2: Thanks!  I love bug reports
<Technoviking> +1 here
 * cody-somerville abstains as mterry is a co-worker of mine. :)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> congrats mterry! welcome aboard
<nhandler> Congrats mterry !
<mterry> Yay!
<itnet7> woohoo congrats mterry!!!
<charlie-tca> congratulations, mterry
<cody-somerville> Congratz mterry
<mterry> Thanks all
<pleia2> tim_sharitt: you're up :)
<tim_sharitt> I am 25 years old. I have no formal IT training, and all my knowledge is self taught. I have been an avid Linux users for about ten years now. I have used Ubuntu since 6.06. My main contribution to the community is user support, mostly via ubuntuforums.org. I do some bug triaging, but this is mostly limited to specifying packages for bugs, and an occasional comment. I am a member of the ubuntu forums beginners team. I am not much o
<tim_sharitt> f a programmer, but I try to learn all that I can. I'm currently reading through the MOTU documentation to learn more about the Ubuntu packaging process. Hopefully I will know enough to be able to contribute soon.
<tim_sharitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsharitt
<mterry> Heh, making the most of your 3 minutes, I see.  :)
<tim_sharitt> https://edge.launchpad.net/~tsharitt
<tim_sharitt> I swear it looked shorter in gedit :)
<pleia2> hehe
<nhandler> I would like to say that tim_sharitt is also an active member of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners. He is very knowledgeable and always willing to help any user in need.
<xq> 3 minutes? how long did i take?
<lamalex> 42
<lamalex> :)
<xq> that's what i thought. <noted>
<ssweeny> that's your answer for everything
<lamalex> busted
<pleia2> tim_sharitt: your future plans are quite diverse, is there anything specific on your list that you're actively working toward now?
<tim_sharitt> I working on leaning packaging right now
<pleia2> tim_sharitt: cool, any PPAs in the works? :)
<tim_sharitt> not yet, need something to work on first :)
 * itnet7 thinks if tim_sharitt can get Alabama going again, We might be able realize our Florida, Georgia, Alabama Tri-Loco Meet-up!!!
<nhandler> tim_sharitt: Take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<tim_sharitt> itnet7: that would be awesome :)
<pleia2> tim_sharitt: how long have you been involved with the bug work? is this something you see yourself continuing?
<tim_sharitt> I've only started the bug work in the last six months, I plan to continue as well as gain more knowledge about how it all works
<tim_sharitt> I just recently learned how to do a backtrace
<Technoviking> tim_sharitt: what are your plans for the BT education group
<tim_sharitt> I am hoping to be able to put together a few courses for the moodle site once it is up and going
<Technoviking> what courses are you considering?
<cody-somerville> tim_sharitt, Can you link to your forum profile for us please?
<tim_sharitt> Though I don't really know on what yet. I have been trying to think about what I am qualified with. Probably cli stuff
<tim_sharitt> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=270383
<tim_sharitt> I would like to do a beginners primer for using the command line
<tim_sharitt> and build on that
<cody-somerville> tim_sharitt, Sounds good. +1 from me.
<tim_sharitt> I was also just approved for the UF unanswered posts team
<pleia2> +1 from me, great testimonials from your team, and you have a lot of great stuff going on - keep it up! :)
<tim_sharitt> just saw the PM when I got the profile link :)
<nixternal> +1 here as well
<Technoviking> +1 here good forums work, Work on the Bama Loco though:)
<pleia2> congrats tim_sharitt!
<nhandler> Congratulations tim_sharitt
<charlie-tca> congratulations, tim_sharitt
<itnet7> Congrats!!!!
<tim_sharitt> Thanks everyone :)
<pleia2> ok all, we're only doing 2 more this evening, the next we'll have to hold off until the next meeting
<pleia2> dantalizing: you're up
<boredandblogging> wohoo! dantalizing! dantalizing! dantalizing!
<dantalizing> I've been using Ubuntu since Warty, and a member of the Florida loco since 4/2007. I was the Florida LoCo team lead from 10/2007 - 1/2009.  I've help organize many release parties and other advocacy events since that time.  I've helped Canonical with the Ubuntu Professional Developer training and Ubuntu Server training.
<dantalizing> Currently I am a US Teams Mentor, and am organizing multiple release parties for Jaunty.  My future plans include becoming a MOTU (I already have a mentor), and having complete support for OpenVZ in 10.04 LTS.  Or at least to the extent that soren allows :)
<dantalizing> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanTrevino
<dantalizing> https://edge.launchpad.net/~dantrevino
<pleia2> yeah, such a show-off with all those release parties :)
<dantalizing> :)
<pleia2> US-FL is making us all look bad ;)
<boredandblogging> dan is the man, he has done great work with the Florida team!
<nhandler> dantalizing: You mentioned you had a mentor. Just out of curiosity, who is it?
<pleia2> I worked with dantalizing on the Ubuntu Professional Developer training stuff in Baltimore, loads of fun, he does great work
<itnet7> Dan is a great contributor to the Florida Team, he was the previous team lead. He has spent a lot of time organizing different projects, and mentored other team Members in their efforts when starting out. He is involved in every event/project the Florida Team participates and has physically attended practically every event (most recently driving from Gaineseville to Miami, close to > 5 hours)
<itnet7> He stepped down due to expecting an addition to his family, but you could hardly notice! He hasn't skipped a beat organizing several Jaunty releases across the State! He is involved with the Server Team, bug triaging, and is really involved in too many areas to list.
<dantalizing> nhandler: stgraber
<dantalizing> nhandler: huats put us together
<dantalizing> nhandler: i'm really just getting started in the motu direction though
<cody-somerville> +1 for Dan. Very solid application.
<pleia2> +1 from me, I am very familiar with dantalizing's exceptional work - well done!
<Technoviking> +1
<nixternal> +1
<nhandler> Congratulations dantalizing ! Keep up the fantastic work.
<boredandblogging> congrats dan!
<nixternal> we have known dan for quite some time
<pleia2> congrats dantalizing!
<boredandblogging> wohoo!
<dantalizing> thanks everyone!!!
<itnet7> Nice Job dantalizing You deserve it Man!!
<nixternal> dantalizing: what took you so long?
<pleia2> ok, last of the night, lamalex you're up :)
 * jedijf cheers loudly for lamalex 
<lamalex> :)
<nixternal> I figured you were a member for a while now, especially after seeing you at UDS
<dantalizing> nixternal: i wanted to deserve it first
<dantalizing> :)
<lamalex> ok, so- Hi, my name is Alex Launi, I'm 21. I'm a member of the Ubuntu-US-PA LoCo team, and one of the GNOME Do developers. Most of my involvement with the Ubuntu community has been through our LoCo, of which I'm one of the mailing list admins, and launchpad admins. I will be attending UDS Karmic with Canonical sponsorship. I'm active on the forums giving support, report bugs when I find them, and recently have been involved in some of the video
<pleia2> you cut off at "some of the video"
<lamalex> grr
<lamalex> irc
<nixternal> lamalex: by chance did I meet you at Penguicon last year? I know I met one of you damn GNOME Do devs :p
<lamalex> ... testing for the intel driver in jaunty reporting bugs on the UXA stuff for Karmic, and making sure EXA is smooth for jaunty.
<lamalex> nixternal: you would have met djsiegel or DBO
<lamalex> they were both there
<nixternal> ahh, ya it was DBO now that you said it
<lamalex> nixternal: if you were at Ubuntu Live i may have met you there
<lamalex> hm, I should add that to my wiki page...
<pleia2> so, over 2 years ago lamalex is the one I found out about the Pennsylvania LoCo from :) we were at a LUG meeting and I was like "Hey, there should be a us-pa team" and he says "THERE IS!"
<nixternal> heh
<lamalex> my wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexLauni and LP is http://launchpad.net/~alexlauni
<pleia2> he's been working solidly with the US-PA LoCo since the beginning over 2 years ago
<lamalex> https://launchpad.net/~alexlauni
 * nixternal makes a reminder to let Gabriel know to not allow lamalex near banshee from this point on :p
<lamalex> heh
<lamalex> my banshee contributions have been great mister
<nixternal> W00T CRITICAL MASS!
<nixternal> Critical Mass Chicago here!
<lamalex> yes, I am an avid cyclist
<lamalex> :)
<bts3685> i also worked with him for an end-user support company for about a hear and a half- very professional guy but still knows how to communicate on a human level
<nixternal> lamalex: I guess that explains the bumps and bruises in your pic on LP
<lamalex> haha yes
<nixternal> lamalex: favorite brand of cycle?
<lamalex> that was from getting hit by a car
<nixternal> lemme guess, fixie?
<jedijf> here we go....
<jthan> lol
<nixternal> hahaha
<Technoviking> lamalex: how gnome-do will not open my home directory?:)
<nixternal> he looks like the hipster fixie type
<lamalex> normally, but I love road bikes, and I'm realllly looking for a cyclocross bike
<lamalex> nixternal: i was a messenger for a bit
<lamalex> :)
<lamalex> freelance deliveries for my friend's dad's firm downtown
<nixternal> just picked up a Blue Cyclocross bike...very good bike...I am a Trek fan with 2 Madones, an FX, and a 1.5...all road bikes :)
<pleia2> others here to cheer for lamalex?
<nixternal> probably going to convert my 1.5 to a fixie
<lamalex> what frame/
<bts3685> pleia2: o/
 * jedijf cheers again
<lamalex> heh we're so offtopic :)
<nixternal> hahahaha
 * erstazi cheers for lamalex 
 * ssweeny cheers for lamalex 
<pleia2> :)
<jedijf> shhh its your strength
 * bts3685 cheers for lamalex 
 * Taim cheers for lamalex
 * jthan cheers for lamalex 
<lamalex> on topic- I tried to start an ubuntu cycling team a loong time ago
<ssweeny> it's started
 * nixternal notes he is on the Ubuntu Cyclists team on LP -> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cyclists for you other cyclists in here :)
<jthan> #ubuntu-cyclists
 * ssweeny is idling in that channel right now
<lamalex> it kind of failed, and then ubuntu-cyclists popped up
<nixternal> argh, I didn't even know we had an IRC channel
<lamalex> tried to get the ML going, it died a little bit
<pleia2> ok, let's get this thing rolling
<lamalex> i would really like to see if we can get a ride at UDS
<pleia2> +1 from me, fantastic work these past couple years, lamalex :)
<nixternal> +1 from me
<lamalex> nixternal: next UDS in paris, we'll do the champs-elysee
<Technoviking> +1 here
<johnso> +1 for lamalex... seen some good stuff on the forums from him!
<nixternal> lamalex: I am so there!
<pleia2> lamalex: congrats!!
<jedijf> congrats lamalex !!!
<nhandler> Congrats lamalex !
<ssweeny> congrats lamalex!
<mterry> lamalex: Congrats!
<jedijf> try to stay /on/ the bike
<xq> Congrats 42
<djsiegel> woohooo lamalex
<Taim> Huzzah.
<johnso> congrats!!
<nixternal> djsiegel: ahhh, I remember you from penguicon
<nixternal> I was the drunk guy!
<nixternal> hahahah
<djsiegel> nixternal: hmmm
<djsiegel> the drunk guy...
<ssweeny> there was only one?
<boredandblogging> lol
<nixternal> you were at Jorge's party the night before too?
<Technoviking> slow con
<ssweeny> not much of a con
<djsiegel> yeah
<boredandblogging> nixternal: the drunk guy
<nixternal> I was the guy who made out with jcastro in the room!!!
<djsiegel> nixternal: score!
<bts3685> /part
<djsiegel> jorge is dreamy
<nixternal> damn, that shouldn't have gone public
<lamalex> /fail
<nixternal> hahahahahah
<lamalex> jorge is every ubunteros dream man
<boredandblogging> nixternal: unless there are pictures, it didn't happen
<ajmitch> nixternal: I feel sorry for him
<xq> screenshot
<nixternal> boredandblogging: there are pictures
<pleia2> thanks for coming to the meeting everyone :) congrats to our new members!
<nhandler> Great meeting everyone
<boredandblogging> nixternal: duuuuude
<djsiegel> nixternal: am I up?
<jedijf> congrats to all new members
<djsiegel> or is meeting over?
<mdeslaur> How often are the meetings?
<boredandblogging> don't tease us like that!
<nhandler> djsiegel: They are done for the night
<lamalex> thanks guys!
<lamalex> woo!
<djsiegel> ok, cool
<nixternal> hold on
<nixternal> we are going to get it over with I hope
<nixternal> djsiegel: you are up!
<nixternal> whew, that was close
<djsiegel> ok...
<djsiegel> "My name is David Siegel, and I began my involvement with Ubuntu a few years ago as a part time user, and became actively engaged as a full-time user and developer a year and half ago when I founded the GNOME Do project." https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DJSiegel
<Hobbsee> you're the founder?  ROCK ON!
<djsiegel> when I'm not gallivanting with drunk guys at penguicon, I am gallivanting with drunk guys in #gnome-do
<djsiegel> and drunk guys at Canonical, my new employer
<djsiegel> (if you don't know Do, http://do.davebsd.com -- I highly recommend installing it)
<djsiegel> (but I am biased)
<djsiegel> so I know lamalex, of course
<djsiegel> and DBO
<djsiegel> they are great Do devs
<djsiegel> so, anyway
 * Hobbsee <3 gnome-do
<djsiegel> from the beginning, Do has been targeted for Ubuntu, much to the chagrin of our friends at Novell
 * nixternal <3 Hobbsee when she lets people know there is 5 minutes left!
<djsiegel> my goal was to (1) make full use of Launchpad and engage the community
<djsiegel> (2) get more people using Ubuntu, which they would enjoy more because of Do
<Hobbsee> nixternal: now that's what gnome do needs!  A timer function!
<djsiegel> Hobbsee: that is actually queued
<djsiegel> I think a plugin just went to our list
<Hobbsee> djsiegel: sweet.  Then I can stop using my phone to remind me to remind everyone else about the 5 minute mark :)
<djsiegel> I bet
<Hobbsee> oh, cool, do works for ssh hosts again.
<djsiegel> you could set the screenshot plugin to take a screenshot in 5 minutes ;)
<djsiegel> I am saying this to try to make it clear that I sincerely believe Do /is/ a significant contribution to Ubuntu in particular, which may not be clear since it's upstream
<djsiegel> but now I am working on the user experience team at Canonical
<djsiegel> and will work with the community for the next long while to get everyone excited about making linux sexy
<djsiegel> *sexier
<pleia2> djsiegel: specifically on the desktop, what kinds of things aside from Do are you working on?
<djsiegel> my launchpad page; https://edge.launchpad.net/~djsiegel
<djsiegel> well, we have this new project called Ayatana
<lamalex> djsiegel: Hobbsee re timer plugin, there are few bugs left to work out, should be done soon says the dev
<djsiegel> the first component of Ayatana is the notifications, which we are still working very hard on
<ScottK> djsiegel: What are your views on how the Dx team has interacted with the community in the Jaunty cycle?
<nixternal> boredandblogging: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronthul/2431683165/
<djsiegel> ScottK: so, this was our first cycle and I think we learned a hell of a lot
<boredandblogging> nixternal: you know thats showing up in the planet in a few minutes, right?
<djsiegel> I really think we've started on the right foot, but some important lessons were learned
<ScottK> What do you think could be improved for karmic then?
<dantalizing> nixternal: ew
<djsiegel> ScottK: well, I was not involved for much of the Jaunty cycle
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<nhandler> nixternal: That photo is coming to the release party ;)
<nixternal> boredandblogging: nevah!
<djsiegel> but, the community /is/ Ubuntu
<djsiegel> it is our greatest strength, our greatest advantage
<ScottK> So you feel like Dx integrated well with the community then?
<djsiegel> it's a necessary condition for the success of Ubuntu that the Dx, Ux, and community find equilibrium
<djsiegel> And I am extremely excited to be a part of that!
<djsiegel> well, I think there are some rough PR edges that have been smoothed over
<ScottK> So the only problems are PR?
<Hobbsee> Is ayatana planning to incrementally test new ideas in the development release, or are they planning to only throw out finished features?  Also, how much community action are they looking for?
<djsiegel> I was told that notify-osd was greeting with some frustration at UDS
<ScottK> I have yet to see any positive feedback from the community on the update-notifier changes.
<djsiegel> ScottK, like I said, I was not involved with Ux/Dx during the cycle, so my impression of Dx/community integration for Jaunty is mostly second hand.
<djsiegel> ScottK: really? I have seen mixed feedbacl.
<Hobbsee> And how much does ayatana plan to use non-canonical feedback, in the Karmic cycle?
<djsiegel> I criticized it heavily when it was made public :)
<ScottK> djsiegel: About update-notifier?
<djsiegel> oh, no, I meant notify-osd
<ScottK> I've seen mixed feedback about the notification design, but the update-notifier feedback that I've seen was pretty unmixed.
<djsiegel> I do not know much about update-notifier changes yet, but I do know I just toasted my netbook and desktop with Jaunty updates.
<djsiegel> I have not been involved with update-notifier at all.
<djsiegel> But this is an evolving process.
<pleia2> great work djsiegel :) +1 from me
<nixternal> +1 from me as well
<djsiegel> The team is still forming, I just joined a few weeks ago!
<Technoviking> +1 from me
<nixternal> BURRITO!
<lamalex> +1
<pleia2> congrats djsiegel :)
<lamalex> djsiegel has great vision, and is a huuge asset
<djsiegel> cool beans burrito
<lamalex> also, he introduced me to the best burritos in philly
<nhandler> Congratulations djsiegel !
<djsiegel> booyakasha
<lamalex> yeah dude! congrats
<Technoviking> I think that is it for tonight. great neeting everyone
<dantalizing> thank you pleia2 Technoviking cody-somerville nixternal itnet7 boredandblogging stgraber nhandler
<nixternal> no, thank you all :)
<nixternal> BURRITO!!!
<nhandler> Isn't it a little late for a burrito nixternal ?
<nixternal> never!
 * nixternal drives down to google and wakes up Sussman and Fitz
<johnso> johnso is bye bye
<stgraber> nixternal: hmm, from Chicago to MountainView, that can take a while :)
<vikashkoushik> Hi guys
<vikashkoushik> When I login to my launchpad profile,I find that I lost 10,000 karma's.What happened?
<dholbach> vikashkoushik: best to ask in #launchpad
<vikashkoushik> thanks
<eeejay> hey jcollado, you know when the qa meeting is?
<jcollado> eeejay: Hi. I think it's in 6 minutes
<eeejay> jcollado: cool, thanks
<james_w> it was later last week
<james_w> if it is the same time then it will be 2 hours
<jcollado> james_w: Thanks. I think I've to fix my calendar
<eeejay> phew
<davmor2> eeejay: it's at the same time but the uk clocks are forward an hour so it is an hour latter here ie 1800 bst
<eeejay> davmor2: the calendar says GMT despite DST
<charlie-tca> 1700 UTC ?
<davmor2> eeejay: are you sure it should say utc
<pedro_> hello folks!
<heno> hey!
<bdmurray> hi
<xq> hey
<ara> hola hola :)
<heno> fader_, sbeattie, ogasawara: ping
<fader_> Here, just finishing an email, sorry :)
<ogasawara> heno:  oops, I'm here now
<heno> np
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings some standing items and RC/Final testing
<heno> UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> well i wasn't around that day so can't talk too much about the hug day
<heno> [TOPIC]: UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic: : UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> just looking at the page it seems it went pretty fine
<heno> (for the record)
<davmor2> hello
<bdmurray> The timing was a bit unfortunate since the archive was frozen
 * charlie-tca waves
<bdmurray> So it required more work to sponsor uploads
<heno> right
<heno> what's the next bug day?
<bdmurray> However, we did get some bugs fixed which is great!
<heno> always good :)
<pedro_> heno:  catch new bugs for SRUs and Karmic - schedule for 20090430
<heno> ok, great
<heno> ogasawara: did you want to mention kernel bug days?
<bdmurray> pedro_: there was some discussion regarding having a tagging bugs bug day I'm not sure if it made the planning page
<ogasawara> heno: yes
<ogasawara> the kernel team recently had a sprint where they decided they'll be holding two kernel team bug days a month
<ogasawara> each member of the kernel team has a specific list of bugs to focus on but we also wanted to get community participation in the future
<pedro_> bdmurray: there's nothing related to that on the planning page, will add it to the ideas section
<heno> ogasawara: is the schedule set?
<bdmurray> pedro_: we'd discussed creating a pool of bugs that might need a tag
<bdmurray> pedro_: so ones with patches that need a debdiff should get a bitesize tag
<ogasawara> heno: we held the first one yesterday, and I believe the intention is to hold it every 2 weeks
<ara> ogasawara: is there information somewhere?
<ogasawara> ara: I need to migrate it to the public wiki
<ara> ogasawara: ok, thx
<heno> ogasawara: please post to lists and/or blog aboit it before the next one
<ogasawara> heno: will do
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<pedro_> bdmurray: ok noted
<bdmurray> Nothing to report
<heno> ok
<ara> :)
<heno> [TOPIC] RC and Final ISO testing -- heno
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC and Final ISO testing -- heno
<heno> So today is crunch day for RC ISO testing
<heno> if you're not already please join us in #ubuntu-testing
<heno> remaining cases are here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
<heno> are we tracking the changes made this week to validate after RC?
<heno> e.g. the Kubuntu OEM installer fails to start
<heno> that and similar fixes shiuld be smoke-checked Friday
<heno> slangasek: do all the fixes that go in at this point get release milestoned first?
<heno> IOW can we use that list to track them?
<sbeattie> wouldn't they get closed and thus be in the relatively big list of closed bugs w/9.04 as a milestone?
<heno> fader_, davmor2: can you guys work together to make sure we check on these fixes Friday/Weekend?
<bdmurray> we can filter on date_fixed or so
<davmor2> heno: yes
<fader_> heno: roger
<heno> sbeattie: yes, but closed this week
<heno> (we can take the method for finding/tracking them off line)
<heno> Next week fader_ and I will be in the release war room in London
<davmor2> we can always track from the list of bugs on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
<ara> davmor2: not all the bugs go there, though
<heno> please be available next week for last-minute ISO testing, ISOs primed ect :)
<heno> schwuk: do we have an emergency mirror up?
<davmor2> heno: I think he has
<heno> schwuk: can you send out access details to those who need them?
<heno> (platform team and active testers in #ubuntu-testing)
<schwuk> heno: sure
 * mgunes sneaks in at last minute
<heno> ok thanks
<heno> Are there any other topics?
<heno> otherwise we can get on with testing ...
 * heno waves to mgunes
<cr3> heno: is there a recommended way to bring attention to particularly serious bugs? hibernation, trackpad not working, volume wheel, etc... basic stuff
<bdmurray> those mostly sound kernel bugs to me right ogasawara?
<cr3> heno: my testing today has uncovered some bugs which I hope have known workarounds such as installing lrm or somesuch
<davmor2> cr3: USE CAPITALS AND !!!!!!!!! ;)
<ogasawara> cr3: do you have bug #'s we can reference?
<cr3> davmor2: you missed a few "1" in those exclamations :)
<ogasawara> cr3: but note that the kernel is frozen so unless kittens are dieing it'll likely have to wait for SRU
<cr3> ogasawara: I'll be sending a report shortly and, since they are indeed mostly kernel related, I'll copy you on my message
<ogasawara> cr3: perfect, thanks
<sbeattie> cr3: can you retarget your checkbox/0.7 tree to jaunty-proposed?
<heno> cr3: you can assign it one one of these teams http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/ and ask slangasek if he things it warrants Release Critical milestoning
<cr3> ogasawara: my concern stops at providing pertinent information to the right people :)
<cr3> sbeattie: we'll talk about that after the meeting, but thanks for bringing that up
<sbeattie> cr3: okay
<heno> cr3: shout esp loud if these are regressions on Certified HW
<cr3> heno: I've been shouting at the laptops in the lab but they don't listen :)
<davmor2> cr3: that's the extra!
<heno> I doubt we'll delay the release but we may bump the kernel before release or do an SRU
<cr3> davmor2: I should add that to my bug reports: tried shouting but still doesn't work... /usr/bin/ubuntu-bug shout
<heno> cr3: I've seen the audio recording bugs, yes ;)
<heno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/354620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 354620 in pulseaudio "Recording from microphone stutters when pulseaudio is running" [High,Confirmed]
<heno> ok, anything else?
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
<cr3> fader_: that was your bug, are you sure you weren't the one stuttering?
<heno> thanks everyone!
<fader_> cr3: :P
<ara> thanks!
<davmor2> ta
<xq> good day all
<Nafallo> 4
<slangasek> heno: they should be release-targeted first, for tracking
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-16
<ttx> theorically it's the Java meeting time, but persia is not around
<ttx> hah - no, it's in an hour.
<persia> Who's here for the Java meeting?
<elky_> ttx was before
<ttx> o/
<persia> It's that daylight savings time thing.  It just has to go.
<persia> Anyone else?
<elky_> no kidding
<elky_> no, i'm just muttering away to myself here
<persia> OK.  Nothing on the agenda.
<persia> Jaunty is frozen, and no critical bugs identified for jaunty.
<persia> slytherin and robilad aren't here
<persia> Luddovicc isn't here
<persia> I've no progress to report on the Java 5 front.
<persia> ttx, Anything to report on Contents?
<ttx> I generated the java-Contents.gz for Jaunty recently
<ttx> and blogged about it
<ttx> just playing with it to find examples for the blog post, I found some pretty obnoxious duplication
<ttx> that we should try to fix in Karmic where possible
<persia> Excellent.  That sounds like a useful goal.
<persia> I suspect we'll generate a number of useful bugs for upstream out of that as well.
<persia> Next up is attracting new Java packagers.
<ttx> I'll try to run a Java packaging session for one of the Packaging Training sessions in May
<dholbach> nhandler: ^ :)
<persia> Do we have anything for next week?
<ttx> I know dholbach has been looking for candidates :)
<nhandler> That is great to hear ttx :)
<ttx> dholbach: you highlight on "packaging" or "Training" ?
<dholbach> ttx: just coincidence :)
<nhandler> ttx:
<nhandler> ttx: We are tracking sessions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
 * nhandler goes to update it for May
<ttx> nhandler: I'll pick a date a try to stick to it
<ttx> that's all from my side.
<persia> Anyone have anything else?
<persia> OK.  See you next week then.
 * jtholmes is away: for about 3 hours
<mcasadevall> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is mcasadevall.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mcasadevall> argh
<NCommander> We all here?
<plars> yep
<GrueMaster> In spirit.
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review from 04/09/09
<NCommander> ...
<mcasadevall> [topic] Action Item Review from 04/09/09
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review from 04/09/09
<mcasadevall> damn it
<mcasadevall> [topic] persia to investigate 338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate 338148
<persia> mcasadevall, I thought you said you were doing that last week.
<persia> I haven't looked at it since.
<mcasadevall> Oh, thats the VNC4 thing
<mcasadevall> Oops
<lool> Hey
<mcasadevall> I assigned it to me, my mistake
<mcasadevall> [action] NCommander to investigate 338148
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to investigate 338148
<mcasadevall> sidenote: no progress/ carry over on that
<mcasadevall> [topic] persia to chase VFP for cairo ffmpeg and gtk+2.0
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to chase VFP for cairo ffmpeg and gtk+2.0
<persia> ffmpeg and gtk2.0+ prepared, massively improved by lool, and uploaded.
<persia> I got horribly stuck on cairo, and thought lool had taken it this week.
<lool> cairo > I implemented it for Debian; it's in theory easy to merge in Ubuntu, but in practice I should redo it to have smaller changes
<persia> lool, Do you expect that to be able to go post-RC?
<lool> Unfortunately I didn't find the time; I'm not convinced the cairo changes are acceptable at this point
<lool> persia: I chatted about it with slangasek, it was after the RC build were kicked off, but would I see the changes myself I would cry
<lool> It's like a rewrite of rules currently
<lool> Also, gtk+2.0 had an issue in the vfp flavor alone, and that's not encouraging
<persia> Yeah, that's what I was finding, and it's not a simple rules file.
<persia> What was the issue?
<lool> Missing configure flags
<lool> it was using the common configure flags instead of the same ones as for the shared flavor
<lool> That caused xinput to go missing, which was quite subtle to miss
<persia> RIght.
<lool> So I'll try to push cairo if time allows; I'd like an ack from Debian too
<lool> Anyway, mcasadevall > moving on
<mcasadevall> [action] lool to continue investigation of cairo VFP
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to continue investigation of cairo VFP
<mcasadevall> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<ogra> haha
<mcasadevall> ogasawara, ?
<lool> ogra: pff :)
<ogra> as if lool would have time to write specs :)
<lool> mc<TAB>
<mcasadevall> argh
<lool> carry<tab> over<tab>
<lool> I feel like writing more specs before going in holidays   :-P
<lool> Plus deadline approaches
<mcasadevall> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<persia> Remember the specs deadline is the 21st!
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<ogra> co ...
<ogra> the other two as well
<ogra> persia, oh, was it extended ?
<ogra> cool
<mcasadevall> [topic] GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to test newer version of Hildon Desktop to see if it resolves cat kills MID bug
<persia> ogra, Extended?  It's been the 21st since I sent the mail.
<GrueMaster> Sorry, couldn't get it to run after rebuilding.  Constant segfaults.
<mcasadevall> I'd like to add a sidenote on this one
<StevenK> Sounds like an improvement to me
<ogra> persia, last wee you said tuesday :P (indeed i assumed this tue)
<GrueMaster> Will work on it some more this weekend.
<mcasadevall> actually, forget the sidenote
 * persia hands ogra a calendar
<ogra> heh
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to coordinate with lool and re-purpose hardening-wrapper to pass -Os on lpia builds
 * ogra does a happy dance ... 
<mcasadevall> hardening-wrapper is now lpia-wrapper, and mostly done
<lool> mcasadevall: Where is it?
<mcasadevall> lool, in a PPA, still needs some work
<lool> mcasadevall: Which one?
 * lool checked yours already
<mcasadevall> lool, the lpia compiler optimizations off my account
<mcasadevall> lool, remember, we have multi-PPAs now :-)
<lool> https://launchpad.net/~mcasadevall/+archive/ppa => I don't see it?
<lool> Oh ok
<mcasadevall> lool, ignore the build-essential package, thats just there to get builds to build with it by default.
<lool> It's actually the fault of my own firefox keywords
<lool> mcasadevall: What's the status?  Does it work alright?
<mcasadevall> Talked with kees on how we want to handle the hardening-wrapper/lpia-wrapper conflict, and agreed to copy the hardening-wrapper functionality right into lpia-wrapper. Its a fugly solution, but without building a general framework (which is a spec I'm going to pick for karmic), we couldn't come up with anything better that didn't require predepends or horrid horrid abuses of stuff
<mcasadevall> lool, works fine on -Os, I just need to add the other two flags. No obvious breakages yet, but I haven't stressed tested it to the point I'm fully happy (generally I'm going to toss it into a chroot then rebuild the base system and if that passes I'll feel its safe enough to toss in achroot)
<lool> mcasadevall: is there a way to override this addition altogether?
<mcasadevall> lool, yeah, you can turn it off via an environment variable, or via /etc/lpia-wrapper.conf
<lool> glibc doesn't build with -Os for instance
<lool> mcasadevall: ok; great; happy to pursue the other enhanements as specs then
<lool> mcasadevall: Please hand it to IS via the ticket I mentionned
<mcasadevall> lool, ATM, it auto-turns off for the kernel and -O0 which is part of hardening-wrapper's functionality
<lool> Erg
<lool> How does it detect kernel?  that's a bit scray
<mcasadevall> lool, -D_KERNEL_
<mcasadevall> Which is what hardening-wrapper also does
<lool> Ok
<mcasadevall> I'll nip this one in the bud tonight, because this weekend likely going to be a complete loss
<mcasadevall> (long story there :-/)
 * ogra twiddles thumbs watching the meeting turn into #ubuntu-hardening
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to test usplash at 800x600
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to test usplash at 800x600
<ogra> any luck ?
<mcasadevall> Didn't get to this, and because I'm kinda transitory this week with LCDs, someone else should take it
<mcasadevall> else carry over
<ogra> well, its unlikely to work, but given that i'll do more install tests before final i'll give it a try once
<ogra> put it on my plate
<mcasadevall> [action] ogra to test usplash at 800x600
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to test usplash at 800x600
<mcasadevall> [topic] ogra nd NCOmmander to post backtraces of #328167 for upstream
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra nd NCOmmander to post backtraces of #328167 for upstream
<ogra> havent gotten to that, but i saw you did :)
<lool> Not sure what the default kvm res is, but it seems close to 800x600 and I saw usplash there
<mcasadevall> I posted a full backtrace, writeup, and repeating instructions including our workaround, and the steps leading up to it
<mcasadevall> I've also offered remote root to any developer who wants to try and fix this on my Babbage, no takers :-/
<ogra> lool, its the hardcoded nature of the frambuffer itself ...
<ogra> you cant vary much, i played a lot with fbset this week
<mcasadevall> Well, usplash is supposed to work with /dev/fb0 or /dev/*whatever vesa uses*
<lool> 640x480
<mcasadevall> The former regressed at some point AFAIK
<lool> AFAIK it hardcodes vesa usage nowadays
<ogra> right, but it requires that this works at certain modelines which the driver doesnt match is my assumption
<mcasadevall> lool, ewww
<mcasadevall> Isn't usplash going away for karmic though?
<lool> Should be replaced by plymouth, not sure whether it's karmic
<mcasadevall> Ok
<mcasadevall> [topic] Roadmap Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roadmap Review
<mcasadevall> [topic] offline-installer (ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer (ogra)
<ogra> lool, i doubt plymouth can work on a babbage framebuffer
<ogra> no progress on any of my specs
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard (persia)
<lool> ogra: It's KMS; KMS could very well work on fb
<lool> Since it's all abstracted by the kernel
<ogra> i thought it needs driver support
<lool> ogra: it needs driver support in the kernel
<ogra> right
<ogra> and we have a driver that doesnt even support a different resolution
 * mcasadevall pokes persia 
<mcasadevall> ok then ...
 * persia double checks before making a confident statement
<mcasadevall> oh
<persia> Works, except suffering from resolution issues.
<mcasadevall> persia, should I leave it on the roadmap?
<persia> mcasadevall, Please do: I do need to clean up a few more things before I remove it.
<mcasadevall> Ok
<mcasadevall> [topic] arm-library-optimization (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimization (lool)
<ogra> done ?
<lool> Hmm nothing to report anymore, we covered
<lool> only cairo missing
<lool> gtk fix pending after RC (now)
<mcasadevall> Ok, I'll leave it on the roadmap
<mcasadevall> [topic] poulsbo-packages (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  poulsbo-packages (persia)
<persia> Nothing to report
<mcasadevall> [topic] arm-softboot-loader (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader (persia)
<mcasadevall> er
<mcasadevall> whoops
<mcasadevall> [topic] arm-softboot-loader (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader (NCommander)
<mcasadevall> Its on my TODO list as something to do this week, I think we want it for karmic. I've been following debian-arm, it looks like they're implementing something kexec based ont he slug to load larger kernels and initramfses
<mcasadevall> Other than that, carry over
<mcasadevall> [topic] lpia-versus-i386 (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386 (lool)
<persia> Roadmap items are *automatically* carried over.
<lool> That's on mcasadevall's plate ATM
<lool> covered already
<mcasadevall> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup (persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup (persia)
<persia> Post-release.
<mcasadevall> [topic] High-Priority Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  High-Priority Bugs
<mcasadevall> [topic] bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS (NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148: VNC4 FTBFS (NCommander)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<mcasadevall> no progress
<mcasadevall> [topic] bug #358762: update-initramfs is missing a trigger for flash-kernel (lool)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #358762: update-initramfs is missing a trigger for flash-kernel (lool)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 358762 in initramfs-tools "update-initramfs trigger should run flash-kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/358762
<lool> That's fixed
<mcasadevall> [topic] bug #337809 APIC error on CPU 0
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #337809 APIC error on CPU 0
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337809
<persia> mcasadevall, hint: check the bugs first, skip the Fix Released ones, and reload the page before *every* topic, because someone will edit the page.
<mcasadevall> I guess no progress on this one
<GrueMaster> I still see this on my MID.
<GrueMaster> Beyond that, no.
<mcasadevall> Do we have any new high-priority bugs we want?
<mcasadevall> such as the lpia alt network one?
<mcasadevall> [topic] Low-priority bugs
<lool> No need to track it, it's fix released
<MootBot> New Topic:  Low-priority bugs
<lool> Or fix committed + uploaded rather
<mcasadevall> [topic] bug #299847: libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847: libipc-sharelite-perl FTBFS on armel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in libipc-sharelite-perl "Shared memory operations on very fast ARM hardware suffer from non-atomic operations and race conditions." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<mcasadevall> No progress, if/when we get new build hardware, I'm going to mark it Won't Fix if I can't reproduce it.
<mcasadevall> Anyway, reminder, specifications are still needed for karmic
<mcasadevall> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<persia> Anyone have any questions about the process documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/KarmicSpecifications ?
<lool> And AR for this week => plars
<persia> Also, please do submit things.  There's 25-30 slots that need to be filled.
<plars> yes please
<mcasadevall> persia, I just submitted another one, and I have another one to be added
<persia> And anyone can submit things: you don't need to be a member of ~ubuntu-mobile (as long as it's about the stuff ~ubuntu-mobile does)
<lool> Ok; done?
<mcasadevall> [topic] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<lool> Nothing from me
<ogra> nothing here either
<lool> Suddenly I realized my screen was quite filed up with temrs and thought I'd take a souvenir screenshot
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/jaunty-rc.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/jaunty-rc.png
<mcasadevall> My ISP officially killed tiered bandwidth caps in Rochester, NY
<mcasadevall> WOOOO!
<mcasadevall> I don't have to move!
 * persia bangs the specs drum more
<ogra> time for 42" ?
<lool> ogra: I have more workspaces ;)
 * mcasadevall throws https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/rebuilder-framework at persia 
<ogra> but you cant see them
<mcasadevall> lool, thats ... intense O_O;
<lool> ogra: I should have taken a 12-workspaces large screenshot!
<mcasadevall> lool, I dunno how you manage with that workspaces, I've seen you use that at UDS and it would hurt me (although I have though about using a tilted window manager, and I must say I do like those)
<ogra> lool, yeah !
<mcasadevall> Side note: I'm likely going to be MIA this weekend (need to drive back to NYC then back to Rochester)
<lool> Oh right, I'm on VAC in 10 days for 2 weeks
<mcasadevall> Anything else?
<mcasadevall> Beside the lpia CD issue, anything worth noted on CD testing?
<plars> iso tracker entries should be up (hopefully) today for lpia and armel
<mcasadevall> Awesome
<plars> but
<plars> I know some people have done testing already
<plars> and might have already put results under the arm entry that is out there under netboot
<plars> which will probably be deleted since it is getting split up
<plars> please check back and put in results again for the appropriate image if that applies to you
<mcasadevall> The problem with the QA website is there is no admin interface, and to add a new thing requires DB editing (you need to add a product, then a test case, then links to instructions; its NOT straightforward)
 * ogra pinged the release manage directly to report success for the babbage
<mcasadevall> I think we can call this meeting to an end
<mcasadevall> Going once
<mcasadevall> Going twice
<mcasadevall> Oh, right, I was wondering if we should add a New Specification Discussion for next meeting (which is the last meeting at the end of the jaunty cycle/first karmic meeting) to overview everything we want, need specs for or have been drafted
<mcasadevall> Any yays, nays?
 * mcasadevall shrugs
<mcasadevall> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:52.
 * cody-somerville falls over.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-17
<pitti> hello
<ScottK> Hello.
<fader_> Howdy
<robbiew> hi
<heno> hey
<sbeattie> hey
<mdz> hello everyone
<davidbarth> hi
 * pgraner o/
<rickspencer3> hi
<cjwatson> hi
<rickspencer3> pgraner: I was thinking of filing a critical RC bug: desktop background has no bunny
<rickspencer3> but I figured slangasek wouldn't find it too funny
 * robbiew calls slangasek
<slangasek> here
<lool> wee
<robbiew> hey
<robbiew> :)
 * lool hugs slangasek and hands a good cup of RC coffee to him
<pitti> hey slangasek, good morning
<slangasek> morning :)
 * robbiew adds an espresso shot to slangasek's good cup 
<pgraner> rickspencer3: dooh!
<mdz> slangasek: good morning
<slangasek> Riddell, dendrobates, Hobbsee: ping?
<dendrobates> slangasek: o/
<Hobbsee> temporary pong!
 * ScottK thinks Riddell is busy scribbling release notes.
<slangasek> ok, hi all :)
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:08. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<slangasek> one outstanding action from last week:
<slangasek>  * rickspencer to follow up with Kubuntu team regarding state of plasma-widget-network-manager and encrypted wireless
<ScottK> Thus my thought Riddell is busy scribbling release notes.
<slangasek> rickspencer3: did you find anything there?
<rickspencer3> yes
<rickspencer3> I follows up with the Kubuntu team last week
<rickspencer3> they discussed the issue, and it's obviously not easy to fix
<rickspencer3> the result is that they are documenting the workaround on their release notes
<rickspencer3> they are also including knetworkmanager on the alternate install CD for users who need to go that route
<ScottK> alternate CD/dvd
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> thanks ScottK
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<rickspencer3> slangasek: ack on ScottK's theory, I believe Riddell is writing the release notes as we speak
<cjwatson> ScottK: it only seems to be on the DVD right now
<slangasek> as I said in the email, with the RC shortly behind us I didn't try to produce an exhaustive list of RC bugs in the agenda
<ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.  That's the intent.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone=2202
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone=2202
<cjwatson> ScottK: oh, you meant s/CD/DVD/ then?
<rickspencer3> cjwatson: sorry, I mispoke
<cjwatson> I thought by "alternate CD/dvd" you meant both
<ScottK> No.  Sorry.  Too much brevity.  Intead of.
<mdz> slangasek: is there a version of that list which shows assignee?
<slangasek> but that link above gives the entire set of bugs that are currently marked as targeted and milestoned for final; if there are other things your team is working on for inclusion in final, *please* make sure that they get targeted/milestoned ASAP for tracking
<slangasek> mdz: I'm not aware of one
<mdz> heno: don't you produce a milestone report which provides a more complete summary?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> (we'll just hand the floor to heno then)
<Hobbsee> mdz: there is, but it's not easy to get at, and i remember it involves constructing URLs
<mdz> I swear I've seen it
<pitti> mdz: the +milestone page, I bet
<pitti> that doesn't have packages
<Hobbsee> mdz: look up the previous releases of release notes.
<heno> mdz: not sure what you're referring to
<pitti> mdz: (re "list with assignee")
<mdz> pitti: this was an HTML report of the style the QA team makes
<slangasek> there's the milestone page (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-9.04), but there's no way to filter that by targeted bugs
<robbiew> sounds like an LP bug to me
 * mdz makes a note for 9.10
<cjwatson> (arbitrary columns in bug pages: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/78608)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 78608 in malone "Allow specifying arbitrary columns in bug listings" [Low,Triaged]
<heno> fader_: can you report on HW testing?
<fader_> Current status: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader_> Servers are looking quite good.  We did a round of manual laptop testing that uncovered a number of bugs, which are reflected on the status page.
<fader_> The bugs themselves are listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptops
<fader_> Several laptops were not tested due to a power issue, but cr3 has resolved that and will be doing a final test on those as well
<fader_> cr3 is also working to narrow down when those bugs on the laptops were introduced and should have more information on that shortly
<heno> (we should be able to make a more useful milestone view, yes)
<fader_> Also, for reference, we have the list of manual testing for netbooks on the wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Netbooks
<slangasek> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html - hw testing status
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html - hw testing status
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptops - bugs from manual laptop testing
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptops - bugs from manual laptop testing
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Netbooks - results of netbook manual testing
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Netbooks - results of netbook manual testing
<heno> we're starting ISO smoke testing now
<slangasek> fader_: I trust the remaining untested/failed hardware is all non-critical, given that there's no room left for a kernel update before final to fix anything...
<heno> start final testing when candidate images are available next week
<heno> slangasek: right, we are targeting some for SRUs
<slangasek> ok
<heno> that's it from QA
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> nothing else to highlight that needs to be escalated for fixing before release?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<heno> no, we've escalated along the way
<slangasek> (guess not)
<pitti> As usual, RC bug status is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> heno: great, thanks :)
<pitti> The biggest issues we have are with the intel video driver. Lots of fixes went into it already, and at this po
<pitti> int we won't touch the Jaunty package any more, since any kneejerk patch will only lead to new regressions.
<pitti> Fortunately most of the crasher issues on ReleaseStatus have patches which currently wait testing feedback, so
<pitti>  these look like good SRU candidates.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> Except for one particular case (bug 349992), the bad performance with default EXA is something we are stuck wi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349992 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[945 tiling] Low performance due to no A17 workaround" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349992
<pitti> th for Jaunty.
<pitti> With Karmic, -intel 2.7 and kernel 2.6.30 it should all fix itself, but it looks impossible to
<pitti> solve with the Jaunty versions.
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/ReleaseNotes documents workarounds for both the crashes and the bad pe
<pitti> rformance, and at least we don't know about systems any more where the driver doesn't work at all, so I think
<pitti> it's "good enough" for the release.
 * pitti apologizes for the broken line endings; how come that copy&paste works that bad?
<mdz> pitti: can you provide a link to the test packages?  I'd love to try fixes for the freeze issue
<pitti> mdz: they are all linked from the bug reports
<mdz> pitti: 359392?
<pitti> mdz: that doesn't have one yet, I'm afraid
<pitti> "greedy" might help
<mdz> pitti: that seems to be the worst one
<rickspencer3> pitti: mdz: also try         Option "EXAOptimizeMigration" "off"
<slangasek> pitti: 277589> that doesn't need thorough debugging, I think it just needs you and I to have a conversation about the right place to put the fdi bits so that they're applied in the right order; (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hotkey-setup/+bug/277589/comments/51) still not for final, but maybe for SRU?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 277589 in hotkey-setup "sony brighness on a geforce series older than 8 (nvclock works fine)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<pitti> mdz: the mitigation here is likely to revert some intel related patches in mesa 7.4
<pitti> slangasek: oh, nice
<pitti> slangasek: lets talk about this off-meeting then
<slangasek> indeed
<slangasek> anything else to say about intel?
<pitti> yes, but it wouldn't be constructive, nor decent
<ScottK> Not that's consistent with the CoC.
<slangasek> mm :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar:
<lool> [link] <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<MootBot> LINK received:  <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>
<lool> current high-level status per topic:
<rtg> pitti: http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=203
<lool> - UNR: a small pile of medium or minor bugs in netbook-launcher, maximus, and desktop-switcher will be addressed in SRUs; more Intel regressions; need to recommend a Windows image writing tool, currently following various strings (OEM's usb-creator fork); need to propagate info on supported netbooks, system reqs, and installation procedure to {www,help}.ubuntu.com; there was a last minute fix to d
<lool> isable multiverse and install ubuntu-standard, which I've underlined a key testi
<lool> ng point to the team
<lool> - armel netboot images: ixp4xx tested post RC (testing started too late and takes 8 hours), versatile passed
<lool> </fail>
<lool> - MID image is as good as usual
<lool> - armel iMX51 Babbage: good shape, appart of the general hardware/kernel issues
<lool> - VFP: all merged except cairo; cairo changes sent to Debian, but relatively large (rules rewrite); I'm writing a less intrusive version but this might miss 9.04 and perhaps be added as SRU
<lool> - lpia: we didn't spot the lack of DHCP during the alternate install, new kernel was uploaded to address this; otherwise good shape
<lool> - armel: good shape
<lool> slangasek: I think davidm and you should spend some time preparing the part of the announcement related to ARM stuff for final
<slangasek> yes
<lool> Perhaps that happened already
<slangasek> this morning I'm drafting an announcement to send to u-d-a about ARM RC; will pass that by davidm and mdz for review ASAP
<davidm> we have been do some talking :-/ slangasek might want my head at this point ;-)
<lool> slangasek: Otherwise, I don't think we want to link particularly to the orion5x and iop32x flavors, but not sure whether the current publications are automatic or not, in which case it's fine
<slangasek> lool: ixp4xx post-RC> all the same, it's linked from the netboot page now, and before the ARM announcement has gone out, so all's well
<lool> the former being untested and the latter not good enough
<cjwatson> ... what orion5x flavour? I thought we disabled that
<cjwatson> (and somebody was complaining that we didn't have it on #ubuntu-devel the other day ...)
<lool> cjwatson: Yes, somebody was complaining but I couldn't reply that we simply had no tester for it
<lool> And that person had left already
<slangasek> lool: cairo> I think I dropped the milestone from that bug because it didn't look SRU-y to me, are you still considering this?  (if so that's fine, I guess it'll pop back up for discussion when it's ready)
<lool> cjwatson: I /think/ I saw the netboot kernels at some place
<lool> slangasek: Let's see how acceptable you find the changes when looking at the diff
<lool> (for cairo)
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> lool: I'm pretty sure I disabled the d-i build for it
<cjwatson> (it broke)
 * ogra likes to correct ixp4xx numbers, testing takes 11h+
<lool> cjwatson: I think that was an additional image, but ICBW
<lool> cjwatson: I see it disabled in ./build/config/armel.cfg, probably just my imagination
<slangasek> lool: even if the cairo patch is up in time, I'm unlikely to try squeezing that in for final, FYI
<lool> slangasek: Ok
<slangasek> lool: is there anything else on your radar that should be gotten in for final? bug #338148, maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<lool> No, that's ok; it's just to port more packages, but we don't seed it by default
<slangasek> ah, didn't see that bug title before I linked to it; seems unlikely
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> anything else?
<lool> Not from me, happy to take more questions
<slangasek> no other questions here, thanks
 * ogra likes to point out that usb-imagewriter is in universe now
<ogra> on multiple requests
<slangasek> davidm: oh, is it settled now whether ARM is going in the u-a mail for final?
<davidm> slangasek, not quite yet, will be shortly
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<davidm> there was a meeting that interfered with getting that resolved.  Sorry.
<pgraner> slangasek: Kernel is in the can.... barring any show stoppers
<slangasek> we've had a late kernel upload as mentioned above, fixing DHCP for lpia and also fixing one of our ext4 bugs; things appear to be going smoothly there for its lateness, we should have test images available with that kernel on them by late today
<pgraner> slangasek: ack
<slangasek> otherwise, as you say there shouldn't be more kernel activity before final - is there anything we need to discuss about jaunty SRU?
<pgraner> slangasek: rtg was planning a SRU upload next week to -proposed
<slangasek> sounds good
<rtg> pgraner: I'm planning to smb do the upload :)
<slangasek> :)
<rtg> s/to/to have/
<pgraner> slangasek: I'll be going thru the hw failures and get them lined up for SRU as well
<slangasek> excellent
<pgraner> slangasek: nothing else from kernel
<slangasek> please make sure bugs that are aimed at SRU get targeted to jaunty, as this significantly reduces the bits the SRU team has to push around when processing them
<pgraner> slangasek: WILCO
<slangasek> pgraner, rtg: thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<cjwatson> ISO testing was pretty busy for (some of) us last week, fielding issues as they came in
<cjwatson> we have a reasonably respectable list of installer bugs for post-RC; this is basically all in the can now, modulo archive acceptance
<cjwatson> (he says, tapping the release button on oem-config)
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> upgrade tests are mostly OK now that the python issues have been dealt with
<cjwatson> there've been a few reports of usb-creator problems, which may need an upload, but haven't talked with Evan about that yet
<cjwatson> we seem to be getting good reports of boot speeds at the moment :-)
<slangasek> there was a post-RC accept of a change regarding the rtinstall script, to make sure byte-compilation gets done for python2.6 even if 2.6 isn't listed in supported; any sign of regressions there?  the change seemed moderately risky to me
<cjwatson> bug 271962 is my only concern, really; that seems to have been dropped on the floor. Probably an SRU deal though since no fix is known yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271962 in consolekit "VT-switching from X returns you to X the first time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271962
<slangasek> right
<cjwatson> slangasek: Michael's going to do a test battery with today's archive
<slangasek> ok, excellent
<cjwatson> that's all I'm aware of; anything I'm missing?
<slangasek> nothing I know of
<slangasek> thanks
<cjwatson> oh, I forgot about bug
<cjwatson> 360460
<cjwatson> bug 360460 (sorry)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 360460 in debian-installer "Alternate install fails with "Pleas insert disk ..."" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/360460
<cjwatson> I think that might be a dmraid-only deal, but I'm going to carry on investigating that; not a stop-ship yet, just a worry
<slangasek> incomplete> guess I shouldn't wait for that before uploading d-i for the new kernel, in any case
<cjwatson> no, I'm just about to upload d-i now
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates>  slangasek: hi 2 things.
<dendrobates> first pitti brought it to my attention the likewise-open-gui is not in any seed
<dendrobates> and will therefore drop out of main.
<slangasek> yeah, saw the email on that; it was accidentally unseeded in kirkland's run, I meant to ask you where you wanted it put back
<dendrobates> I don't feel it is my call to decide if a gui tool is in main
<slangasek> well, ok
<slangasek> then pitti can tell us :)
<pitti> erm?
<pitti> I have never seen it
<pitti> dendrobates: so, if you don't know/want it, let's drop it
<dendrobates> I thnk it is good for ubuntu, but I think the desktop team needs to decide if they wnat it.
<dendrobates> ok
<dendrobates> also, kirkland is working on some post-rc kvm bugs.
<slangasek> yes, there was an upload in the queue that I kicked back at him; is there a revised upload yet?
<dendrobates> slangasek: he spoke with oyu and you were uncertain about  one of the fixes.
<kirkland> slangasek: i can split the one controversial one out
<slangasek> ok
<kirkland> slangasek: i'll upload without the fix you questioned
<kirkland> slangasek: however, that one fix is the most critical one, in our opinion
<kirkland> slangasek: i see your point about regression chances, however
<kirkland> slangasek: and i won't argue with you on that point :-)
<slangasek> critical, but higher-risk; if you can give me assurances that it's safe...
<slangasek> otherwise, it's fine for SRU when we have more time to bake it
<dendrobates> slangasek: we will work on providing that assurance.
<ScottK> Speaking of which, slangasek I'd like to discuss after the meeting exactly how much of the clamav update you'll let me get away with.
<slangasek> dendrobates: ok - if we can get there, I can always un-reject the upload
<slangasek> ScottK: yep
<dendrobates> that's all from us, I think we're in pretty good shape.
<slangasek> good to hear :)
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<kirkland> slangasek: i'm uploading with that one patch still in the package, but left out of the debian/patches/series file
<ScottK> I think we're in decent shape.
<ScottK> My biggest concern continues to be the Python transition.
<ScottK> We're mostly through the "won't install due to Python 2.6" problems.
<slangasek> we're down to just the one python transition bug on the milestone list; are there more bugs thought to be hiding?
<ScottK> So now we're getting the "doesn't work due to Python 2.6 problems"
<slangasek> kirkland: that will only make it more awkward to do a sensible review of the SRU later...
<ScottK> It's mostly latent stuff I'm worried about.  I've done several uploads myself yesterday and today for this reason.
<kirkland> slangasek: ok
<ScottK> Mostly the bugs are easy to fix, but I expect a busy SRU season.
<pitti> stuff like "as" identifiers?
<ScottK> That was one.
<slangasek> ScottK: <nod> understood
<ScottK> Another is support for Gopher was removed.
<ScottK> We actually had a package that supported it.
<pitti> right, I remember fixing a package for that as well
<cjwatson> we really need to work on automatic scans for this sort of thing
<cjwatson> python language changes aren't going away
<pitti> python-mechanize AFAIR
<ScottK> md5/hashlib is a deprecation warning, but I've seen it cause test suite failures.
<ScottK> We'll just have to work through it.
<cjwatson> the documentation processors changed, which broke something that was using python's old documentation processor
<slangasek> ScottK: I notice the round of bugs that did get filed for universe FTBFS haven't gotten much attention; I was thinking to 'wontfix' those for jaunty, on the theory that if no one's looked at them yet they probably aren't going to get SRU attention and so don't need to be tracked, but can be reopened if someone is keen later
<ScottK> Speaking of which, I think we ought to have some sessions at UDS on lessons learned from Jaunty.
<cjwatson> I had to make something build-dep on python2.5-dev for that
<robbiew> ScottK: good idea
<slangasek> ScottK: in reference to python, or more broadly?
<ScottK> slangasek: I think we've done the easy ones.  I'd push them to jaunty-updates instead of wontfix, but your call.
<ScottK> slangasek: More broadly, but Python is high on my list.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> I think it is something we should do every UDS.
<slangasek> will you coordinate with robbiew to get those sessions on the agenda?
<robbiew> perhaps every track should have a "Lessons Learned: session
<ScottK> I think that's sensible.
<robbiew> slangasek: I'll take the action
<ScottK> My only other comment is that we're being fairly liberal about pushing stuff through to get features synchronized.
<slangasek> [ACTION] robbiew to get "lessons learned from Jaunty" scheduled for UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to get "lessons learned from Jaunty" scheduled for UDS
<slangasek> ScottK: is that a cause for concern?
<ScottK> Also since this is the last pre-release meeting, I'd like to note that having a motu-release member who also have the archive-admin button in LP has seemed to me to be very helpful this cycle.
<slangasek> or just fair warning to us? :)
<ScottK> slangasek: Just fair warning.
<slangasek> archive-admin button> yep, glad to see that happening
<ScottK> I'm confident we're making stuff better, just some of the change is large.
<pitti> ScottK: indeed, thanks for helping out with that
<slangasek> though I wouldn't have the patience to have to download the packages locally in order to diff them :/
<pitti> slangasek: queuediff FTW :)
<slangasek> pitti: does that not still download?
<ScottK> slangasek: That's been a huge pain.  queuediff wil be a great help.
<pitti> slangasek: sure, it has to, but in most cases jsut the two diff.gzs
<slangasek> unless you've created a remote diffing service when I wasn't looking, the whinge stands :)
<pitti> I have used it a lot today, and it's fairly quick
<pitti> in most cases quicker than q fetch / mdebdiff
<slangasek> I guess that will vary by connection speed. :)
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, it's a pain for native/new upstream release
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<pitti> but I don't see how this can be helped with in principle, short of soyuz producing the diffs itself
<ScottK> Which it ought to be able to do ....
<slangasek> so, this is the last time we'll look at this URL for jaunty; next Thursday, all the regression-potential bugs roll over to regression-release
<slangasek> many of these are already targeted; any that aren't already in progress are pretty certainly not candidates for further updates before final, though
<slangasek> we probably want to mine the remaining items on that list for release notes candidates; any volunteers to help with that?
<cjwatson> the ssh/gnome-keyring issues have been a huge pain; I've been getting lots of reports misfiled on openssh for that (both here and in Debian)
<cjwatson> is gnome-keyring likely to get fixed?
<cjwatson> (usual symptom is something like "Agent admitted failure to sign using the key")
<slangasek> hadn't seen that
<slangasek> bug ref?
<lool> can't delete keys from agent, all keys are loaded in agent etc. I guess
<slangasek> there was a gnome-keyring update on the 13th; are these problems from before or after?
<pitti> it's been ages since I've seen that (hardy timeframe)
<lool> Perhaps I'm mixing unrelated issues, but I see a pile of complaints that g-k forces itself to act as an agent and doesn't work as well as it should be
<pitti> slangasek: bug 348126
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348126 in seahorse "ssh are using ssh-userauth but ignores private key" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348126
<cjwatson> lool: that's certainly what I'm thinking of
<slangasek> seahorse, not g-k?
<pitti> it has no useful reproduction steps, though
<cjwatson> seahorse used to be a problem; the recent cases I've seen were gnome-keyring, though
<slangasek> "please attach your private key to this bug"
<slangasek> :/
<pitti> slangasek: g-k is right, seahorse task is invalid
<slangasek> ok
<lool> It's not the place to have a discussion about keeping g-k as a ssh agent or not, let's have this for karmic, but we could at least work on making it a real replacement
<cjwatson> err, sorry, I seem not to have an Ubuntu example to hand right now, Debian #524018 is one
<ubottu> Debian bug 524018 in openssh-client "openssh-client: ssh-agent as started by xsession can't use keys" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/524018
<cjwatson> but that's a reasonable example of the sort of thing I've been getting reports of in Ubuntu too
<lool> Right, the fact we start ssh-agent in almost all Xsessions is the reason I asked upstream to auto disable the SSH components when an agent is already running
<slangasek> ok; do we need to escalate that with seb128, and figure out what to do with it post-release? (either for karmic or in SRU)
<lool> (I simply suggested to check SSH_AGENT stuff in the env, but upstream told me to disable it in GConf)
<slangasek> lool: heh, rather missing the point of "auto" disabling...
<lool> Yeah I think it was missing the point of distro needs versus user needs   :-/
<pitti> I'll ask seb/robert to triage it and get a reproduction recipe
<cjwatson> thanks
<slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to ask seb/robert to triage the gnome-keyring "can't use keys" problem
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to ask seb/robert to triage the gnome-keyring "can't use keys" problem
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> this is mostly a footnote, since our CD sizes shouldn't be changing very much before final
<slangasek> ... which means, if you *are* uploading something for consideration for final, please make sure the size difference for your package is sane
<pitti> slangasek: (done)
<slangasek> we had one upload that was going to add 800K to the install size of a seeded package... that got rejected
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Release notes
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release notes
<slangasek> there are probably many items that should still get documented in the notes between now and release
<pitti> slangasek: yeah, kwwii has a new image (jpg now) which reduces package size by 600 KB
<pitti> haven't looked at it yet
<slangasek> remember that you can nominate bugs for mention in the release notes by opening a task on the ubuntu-release-notes project; please use this liberally
<slangasek> (and ask your teams to do so as well)
<slangasek> nominating bugs for the release notes is not a promise to draft the text (though we appreciate help there :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> last call for jaunty! anything else?
<cjwatson> there are some ubuntu-archive bugs still open; I'll be trying to finish making a pass through all of them today (not necessarily taking action on them all)
<cjwatson> anything filed there after today will need special notice to #ubuntu-release
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:27.
<slangasek> no need to let the clock run out ;-)
<robbiew> thnx
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<pitti> thanks anyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-18
<savvas> hey, any regional approval board members here? is ubuntu membership reviewed every year?
<ScottK> If I remember correctly you just have to self renew.
<savvas> thanks :)
<touchdown95> ropeskippinggirl der weiÃe acer sieht einfach nicht gut aus
<ropeskippinggirl> ach ja
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-04-19
<winrid> Hello?
<tsimpson> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> tsimpson, ?
<tsimpson> hi, can I /msg you?
<Seveas> sure
<mc44> t
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-19
<showard> showard is here for motu-reception meeting
<BlackZ> showard: there's a meeting?
<BlackZ> ah, yes, you're right
<BlackZ> :)
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<showard> Hey
<RoAkSoAx> showard, i guess nobody else is around just yet
<BlackZ> wasn't it at 15:00 UTC ?
<BlackZ> huats: ping
<huats> I am here
<BlackZ> huats: wasn't the meeting at 15:00 UTC?
<BlackZ> as I can read in the e-mail
<huats>  it was
<huats> and it is crazyness here :)
<huats> give me  5 minutes
<huats> sorry showard...
<BlackZ> huats: sure
<BlackZ> no problem
<huats> I am here
<huats> BlackZ, RoAkSoAx, showard sorry I am late
<huats> I am ready to begin
<RoAkSoAx> huats, its ok, we all understand :)
<huats> so you are now all members of the mailing list
<showard> hey np, I can stay as long i can, but I may have to leave abruptly (sorry in advance!)
<huats> I have added you yesterday
<huats> showard, no pb
<huats> you should have all received an notice of that
<huats> if it is not the case check your spam filter :)
<RoAkSoAx> huats, i dont think I have
<huats> BlackZ, showard have you seen it ?
<BlackZ> huats: yeah
<RoAkSoAx> huats, its gone already :S
<BlackZ> huats: which is the mailing list?
<RoAkSoAx> huats, its gone already)
<showard> I don't think I got anything, don't see anything in the spam
<huats> motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net
<BlackZ> huats: wait a moment
<RoAkSoAx> huats, i was thinking, wouldn't it be easier to just use the ML of the launchpad team?
<RoAkSoAx> whenever someone sends a message we can review it and approve it
<huats> RoAkSoAx, the thing is that so far the mailing list is not private
<huats> and this is something needs to be private
<BlackZ> huats: I have just received an e-mail from you: "You should have been subscribed to the mailing list now."
<BlackZ> but anything from motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net
<huats> we already had in the past mentors saying : I don't want this mentee...
<huats> that is why I think we should keep that privatly
<showard> ahh ok, that makes sense
<BlackZ> I'm agree with huats
<huats> and the mailing list is on LP is not private yet
<RoAkSoAx> huats, ok
<huats> (we need to see that with jcastro one day, but I wanted to talk with you before doing anything related to the mentoring)
<huats> I have sent you right now an email on the mailing list please let me know if you receive it
<RoAkSoAx> huats, i haven't (and I've had problems with that email for ages)
<huats> RoAkSoAx, which email you mean ?
<BlackZ> huats: not yet
<showard> not yet
<RoAkSoAx> huats, the ML
<huats> RoAkSoAx, but it is working :(
<huats> I have received it :(
<BlackZ> huats: so that's strange
<BlackZ> I don't think it's a server-related problem
<RoAkSoAx> huats, weird :S :/
<huats> well I'll figure that later
<huats> let's focus on the meeting a bit
<BlackZ> yeah, can we start it?
<huats> showard, I think your email was great
<huats> it sums up very well the idea
<RoAkSoAx> huats, nevermind i just got it at @ubuntu-pe.org
<showard> me too
<huats> ok great
<huats> they were bloked somewhere :(
<BlackZ> I haven't
<BlackZ> hmm..
<RoAkSoAx> ok so, we now have the wikipage that i'd sugggest we should use from now on to track the agenda of every meeting
<BlackZ> RoAkSoAx: yeah, that'd be great
<huats> it's great indeed !
<RoAkSoAx> ok, any new discussion item?
<showard> Should we go over the points in my email?
<huats> showard, go ahead
<RoAkSoAx> showard, lets start with tracking new mentings in bugs. I give a +1 to your approach
<RoAkSoAx> s/mentings/mentees
<huats> RoAkSoAx, I agree too
<BlackZ> +1
<showard> (OK RoAK), going down the list in order to make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves: Do we agree on the "overall" goal of motu-reception
<showard> we're the coordination point between a pool of mentors and potential developers. Should we drop the "MOTU" from our name?
<huats> I agree on the goal
<RoAkSoAx> +1 with the goal.
<BlackZ> sure, +1 from me too
<huats> showard, I think MOTU is still widely 'know'
<huats> I'd be in favor of keeping it
<showard> ok, we can keep the name - but realistically we are for all developers, not just "motu"
<RoAkSoAx> showard, yes we should keep MOTU, since due to archive reorganization, MOTU will be for those unseeded packages
<showard> or are we just for motu
<huats> We are for developpers
<BlackZ> I'd say to keep the name surely - agree with huats
<huats> and since MOTU is one of that steps...
<showard> ok, name can stay - but we are for all developers. I think MOTU will be taken out of the "steps" and become one of the ways a developer can join
<ScottK> One of the points in the last UDS discussion about future of MOTU was that all development teams should be responsible for new developers, not just MOTU.
<showard> Yes ,what ScottK said - that's why I think we should not be just motu - but the contact point for all teams
<showard> and to distribute it
<huats> so how would you name it : Ubuntu Developpers Mentoring Reception  ?
<RoAkSoAx> huats, Ubuntu Development Mentoring Reception
<showard> Sure, the Ubuntu Developers Mentoring Program (we are the reception for it). This is a change from before, since we'd have to get the other teams on board as well (we'll need mentors from each team to be responsible for training their members)
<huats> OK then for me
<RoAkSoAx> what we can do is use the general mentoring for MOTU and specific mentoring for any of the teams
<showard> while anyone can do "general" training, individual teams will be responsible for the "senior" training of their own members
<showard> exactly roak
<showard> MOTU can also be one of the senior teams
<BlackZ> agree, that's ok
<RoAkSoAx> ok so I think that's the way we should go then
<showard> Ok, we'll put these ideas up on the wiki page to to make sure we keep track of it
<BlackZ> huats: we should rename the mailing list then
<showard> hauts: how involved would you like to be, because we can take over admin stuff if you just want to "consult" since you have the experience
<huats> showard, I'd like to be involved
<showard> great!
<huats> but I have no idea how much I can spend...
<showard> (I sometimes rope people into doing things they don't want to - just want to make sure!)
<huats> but count on me for that
<ScottK> showard: Don't be shy, roping people into things they don't want to do is an essential element of open source management.
<showard> before getting new email addresses, we should work out the details of what the program will look like and have some potential team people look it over before changing addresses. I think
<showard> ScottK: ha, good advice
<BlackZ> showard: sure, for now we can keep it
<showard> If mentors and teams say it won't work, we'd have to change our thinking
<showard> Ok, moving on: Work flow
<showard> -interested person contacts reception
<showard> -reception acknowledges contact
<showard> -reception organizes or points mentees to "general" training
<showard> (packaging training sessions) classes with all new junior level
<showard> members that need it (connects mentees and whoever is running the
<showard> general training)
<showard> -pair mentees with "general" mentors
<showard> -when a mentee is ready reception connects individual with the team
<showard> they are interested in.
<showard> I think it's pretty basic and exactly what we said last time, does that make sense? Any comments?
<huats> showard, indeed that matches what we said
<RoAkSoAx> indeed
<showard> ok, hauts: what's it like getting mentors, is it easy - are there enough?
<huats> showard, it is not that easy usually
<huats> we were always at the gap
<huats> but it was OK
<huats> now we should see how it goes with the new teams
<RoAkSoAx> huats, i think we should keep tracking of mentors by having "Available mentors in US TImezones", "No Mentors Available in Europe timezones"
<showard> What if we only need a few mentors to actually be on IRC for the packaging training, and the rest are by email or by appointment on IRC (kind of how bug control does it)
<huats> showard, I would prefer to avoid appointment on IRC, since I would encourage the usage of #ubuntu-motu
<huats> RoAkSoAx, It is need to have the timezone for any mentors and mentees
<showard> yes, using #ubuntu-motu is better - this might be a better question hauts: what do the mentors do?
<huats> but showard once again it is just my idea (even if I know that ScottK will second me for the usage of ubuntu-motu)
<showard> (I meant by appointment on #ubuntu-motu)
<BlackZ> huats: I'd suggest to do a "calendar" when the mentee assigned is available, and say there when they aren't available
<huats> showard, well a mentor is here to introduce the way of thinking that is used on Ubuntu
<huats> and to tell them : ok you are going to work on Kde for that stuff, then talk to ScottK
<huats> also to lift the various questions mentees might have...
<huats> sometimes people are afraid of speaking on IRC
<showard> ok, so it's not so much teaching technical skills but instead instroducing to a community
<huats> on a public channel
<RoAkSoAx> huats, yeah but I'd prefer to send that mentee with enough knowledge to already start working on stuff without having the specific mentor to teach the basics of packaging
<huats> well the technicals basics would be covered by the sessions :)
<huats> otherwise that depends a lot of the mentee
<ScottK> Honestly if you have people who can't ask questions on IRC in a channel, they aren't going to work out.
<ScottK> You're better off finding out sooner rather than later.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, +1
<ScottK> Ubuntu IRC channels are very friendly and by working on private, you damage the new contributor's integration into the community.
<ScottK> Also mentors aren't perfect.
<ScottK> If they are working with their mentees in public, if they make a mistake it can be immediately corrected.
<ScottK> Also other people in the channel learn from the discussion.
<BlackZ> agree with ScottK
<showard> Ok, IRC should be an important part of mentoring then
<ScottK> Really I think that private mentoring should be extremely rare and highly discouraged.
<ScottK> It's not consistent with our cultures and values as an open project.
<RoAkSoAx> +1
<RoAkSoAx> (amen)
<ScottK> I have said in the past and continue to believe we're better off with no formal mentoring process than one that works in private.
<huats> ScottK, I'd see the mentoring like someone who is following your steps a bit
<huats> like a prefered referal
<huats> but not someone who is here to answer all you questions
<huats> +r
<RoAkSoAx> indeed
<showard> Ok, so formall mentoring should be done in public, IRC - I agree
<showard> Moving on to the next point: mentee tracking implimentation
<showard> I think earlier people liked the idea of LP bugs for mentees, but what do you think of this small change to what I wrote in the email:
<RoAkSoAx> sorry guys but I have to run.
<showard> ok, we can stop here
<huats> RoAkSoAx, ok
<huats> showard, as you like
<huats> may be you can expose your idea and RoAkSoAx will comment them on the minutes ?
<showard> ah sorry
<showard> This is the example from the email:project owned by motu-reception
<showard> where each applicant is a bug report (DM way)
<showard> LP example:
<showard> Mentee files a bug against a project owned by motu-reception. This can
<showard> be private (why is it private, what private information is there?)
<showard> -"NEW" = unprocessed
<showard> -"Incomplete" = needs to attend a packaging training session
<showard> -"Complete"=currently in the "general" mentorship program
<showard> -"Triaged"=currently in the "specialized" mentorship program
<showard> -"Fix Released"=done with program
<showard> -"Won't fix"=lost contact with, not in program
<showard> -"Assigned to"=mentor
<showard> What if "complete" means that they are qualified for "general" training
<showard> and then we can tell mentors to "shop" through the list of "complete" unassigned or "triaged" unassigned bugs
<showard> to see if there are people they recognize from sponsoring packages, etc - then assign themselvs to the bug
<Daviey> Would motu-reception be compulsory, or is it an extra method to help people into the team?  Ie, can the exisiting method still be used?
<showard> After packaging trainging (when a mentee goes to "complete"), they can do merges, syncs, small fixes, FTBFS, rebuilds, etc. -- and "build" a reputation for themselves, then get picked by a mentee
<showard> Not compulsory
<huats> Daviey, nothing is compulsory
<Daviey> showard: thanks.
<Daviey> huats: well no, but i mean't - would they have to do this process to join motu.. Breathing isn't compulsory :)
<huats> Remember to ask you not to breah for a while next time we cross :)
<showard> My concern is finding enough mentors, and if you can let people shop around - someone might do it that might not have normally if the recognize someone that they sponsored
<showard> Daviey: you can still join motu normally
<huats> showard, I am not very confortable with the idea of letting the mentors pick the mentee
<huats> actually we were quite strict in avoiding people from the same country or the same mother language
<huats> to push people to use english
<huats> and I think it is something to persue
<showard> ok, that makes sense - we can think about it over the week
<BlackZ> agree with huats
<showard> In that case we can summarize what we said today on the wiki, and come up with an agenda for next week
<huats> yep
<BlackZ> yeah
<BlackZ> ok, something to discuss again? can we stop here?
<showard> Thanks all, i'll post it on the wiki and send an email for you all to check it out (and next weeks agenda)
<showard> I think we can stop here
<BlackZ> OK, thanks all
<showard> have a good week!
<BlackZ> showard: thanks, you too! :)
<huats> thanks guys !
<jdstrand> hi all!
<jjohansen> hi
<mdeslaur> hi jdstrand, jjohansen
<mdeslaur> and everyone else! :)
 * kees joins from laggy tmobile network along train route :)
<mdeslaur> oh, hehe, hi kees!
<jdstrand> ah cool
<kees> heya!  :)
<mdeslaur> kees: Can you hear me now?
<jdstrand> kees: do you usually do a #startmeeting?
<kees> heheh
<kees> jdstrand: I haven't, no, but we probably should
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:09. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> hehe
<kees> regardless, I shouldn't chair since the next tunnel will drop me.  ;)
<jdstrand> I'm chair cause kees is on vacation! :P
<jdstrand> kees: since you are here, why don't you go first?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: do you feel powerful with all those commands at your disposal? :)
<jdstrand> I would, if I knew what to do with them :P
<kees> let's see.  I'm hoping to do more ISO testing, work our release checklist, and look for low-hanging fruit
<kees> since that took 2 minutes to send over the network, I will stop there.  :P
<mdeslaur> ok, my turn
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> kees: thanks :)
<mdeslaur> and will probably release ffmpeg updates todat
<mdeslaur> s/todat/today/
<mdeslaur> I'll do some iso testing, and will pick something from the CVE list
<mdeslaur> I'm done
<jdstrand> I plan to fix an irssi upstream regression today (small), then publish netpbm and kdebase-workspace (for kdm)
<jdstrand> I imagine the kdm testing will take a little while, so it might not go out until tomorrow
<jdstrand> then ISO testing and install audits
<jdstrand> (install audits got pushed back again, due to updates/vacations/etc)
<jdstrand> I think we should all make a concerted effort to make sure lucid is up to date and accurate in UCT
<jdstrand> (it's one of our unspoken release tasks)
<mdeslaur> agreed
<jdstrand> other than that, I'm done
<mdeslaur> I'll take a look at that also
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: cool thanks-- I fixed a few things last week, but didn't get a chance to focus on it
<jdstrand> anything else?
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: not from me
<jdstrand> any questions for the security team?
<mdeslaur> we also welcome complaints and/or donuts
<jdstrand> s#complaints and/or ##
<jdstrand> :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> ok. thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:19.
<ScottK> Don't forget some self congratuatlions about Ubuntu Server admins not shooting themselves in the head over clamav last week.
<afterlastangel> so, when will it begin?
<stk_> we are waiting here :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-20
<dholbach> sabdfl, popey, Technoviking, nixternal, mako: hello - no agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> as far as I know the only ongoing thing right now is the wiki licensing - I can check in with mdke for an update
<dholbach> do you know of anything else?
<sabdfl> nothing from me
<popey> o/
<dholbach> I'll do that then and see what we can do
<dholbach> I never imagined that with setting up the RMBs and LoCo Council our meetings would be THAT short. :)
<popey> :D
<dholbach> any other business from anybody?
<dholbach> if not, I'll just take the action to mail mdke and we'll adjourn.
<popey> nothing from me
<popey> are we planning to have a meeting at UDS?
<popey> actually we have one before then I guess
<popey> datefail
<sabdfl> good news
<dholbach> popey: you mean the regular IRC CC meeting or a "governance check" session?
<sabdfl> the new DPL mailed to introduce himself, which is a first and very well received
<popey> excellent
<dholbach> NICE
<sabdfl> and he'll be able to attend UDS, which is even better
<ogra> wow
<dholbach> that's fantastic news
<sabdfl> so it would be a good opportunity for folks on the CC to meet him and have productive conversations
<dholbach> it'll be great to hang out with him :)
<dholbach> definitely
<popey> yup
<popey> how much of the cc will be there?
<popey> I'm guessing Mike/Mako wont be.
<dholbach> jcastro should know
 * dholbach doesn't have the overview.
<popey> just wondered, not vital
<dholbach> actually, I do: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m :)
<dholbach> I think I'll start another thread about "conversations we should have at UDS", so we can schedule sessions if there's enough demand
<sabdfl> super
<sabdfl> is that a wrap, folks?
<dholbach> popey, sabdfl: anything else form you?
<dholbach> I'm all set
<popey> nope
<dholbach> rock on - thanks everybody :)
<sabdfl> looking forward to seeing everyone in Belgium
<popey> yeah, me too
<sabdfl> thanks Daniel for keeping us rollin'
 * dholbach hugs you all :)
<sabdfl> hugs back
<dholbach> :-D
 * ogra slurps 
 * GrueMaster yawns
 * plars refrains from continuing the pattern of bodily noises on irc
<dyfet> getting coffee
 * davidm davidm waves and goes looking for coffee too
 * asac waves
 * ogra wonders where our chair is to do a roll-call
 * JamieBennett waves too
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> If your not here, say I
<cooloney> I
<cooloney> heh
<asac> hey cooloney
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100413
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100413
<cooloney> asac: hey, man
<JamieBennett> NCommander: wrong link
<NCommander> james_w: I just noticed you bolded the again on OOo being broken on the last meeting notes. That made me chuckle :-)
<NCommander> oh, whoops
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100420
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100420
<asac> NCommander: i think the actions from last week are wrong
<asac> oh ;)
<asac> the url was wrong
<JamieBennett> :)
 * davidm now has coffee and is here
<NCommander> davidm: coffee is a good thing. Its also a dependency of the mobile-team package
<NCommander> :-)
<asac> heh
 * JamieBennett kicks the meeting chair to get going ;)
<NCommander> so are we all here?
<asac> NCommander: how about action items from last meeting?
<NCommander> I was making sure we were all here
<NCommander> [topic] AI Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  AI Review
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> sorry
 * NCommander fixs the page he's looking on
<ogra> morning NCommander
<ogra> :P
<NCommander> [topic] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<MootBot> New Topic:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<dyfet> Okay
<JamieBennett> the checks were fine?
<JamieBennett> no string changed needed?
<ogra> surely not
<asac> dyfet: ?
<dyfet> I have to check :)
<asac> can you do that today?
<dyfet> I did not realize I had this task until now :).  Yes I can
<NCommander> c/o I guess
<asac> yes
<NCommander> [action] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.
<plars> on a side note, I did attempt update from karmic
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to send a list of bugs that need attention to asac.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to send a list of bugs that need attention to asac.
<plars> and it worked on imx51 where I tested it at least
<plars> but this would not have needed the sanity check
 * mvo mumbles something about string freeze
<NCommander> plars: it should also work on dove if you shoehorn an X0 kernel onto a karmic installation
<ogra> mvo, well, even if we only change the check thats better than nothing
<GrueMaster> Shortly after last meeting, plars beat me to the punch with http://people.canonical.com/~plars/dashboard.html.
<ogra> mvo, keeipng the old error
<mvo> ogra: yeah
<asac> GrueMaster: hmm. ok
<plars> GrueMaster: not sure that's a replacement.. it's not done, and not on a cron job to update yet
<asac> GrueMaster: but thats not a short list
<asac> f candidates that might need more attention etc.
<asac> anyway. ok
<plars> GrueMaster: that's also for a somewhat different purpose
<asac> right
<GrueMaster> May be for a different purpose, but it generated the same list.
<asac> which list is that?
<asac> the "Bugs tagged for armel"?
<GrueMaster> Bugs that need attention.
<GrueMaster> For armel.
<NCommander> anything else on this?
<asac> GrueMaster: where is that on that dashboard?
<GrueMaster> Only to note that none of the bugs directly affecting live images have been looked at.
<GrueMaster> Bugs tagged armel 121Â 
<asac> htats the full list
<asac> we wanted a short list for prioritization ;)
<GrueMaster> Ok, I'll whip something together today.
<asac> anyway. lets move on. if you see anything that isnt on RC bug list and that is a good candidate for a fix let me know
<asac> thanks
<asac> NCommander: maybe action on that and move on ;)
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to priorize the 121 bugs and send them to asac
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to priorize the 121 bugs and send them to asac
<asac> JamieBennett to add StartupNofify  support to webservice-office-zoho.  -> that happened
<JamieBennett> done and in the images :)
<NCommander> [topic] JamieBennett to add StartupNofify support to webservice-office-zoho
<MootBot> New Topic:  JamieBennett to add StartupNofify support to webservice-office-zoho
<NCommander> oh good
<NCommander> [topic] asac to work with roc on the firefox scrollbar issue
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to work with roc on the firefox scrollbar issue
<asac> i dont want 121 prioritized ;) ... just good candidates for a fix
<asac> yes... this turned out to be toolchain
<asac> a certain mix of optimization flags seem to trigger it
<asac> i dont see it with all -O2 which we will go for
<JamieBennett> fixed now?
<NCommander> [action] Correction: GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Correction: GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release
<ogra> fix in sight ?
<asac> JamieBennett: not in archive.
<asac> ogra: yes. -O2 ;)
<ogra> cool
<asac> i will push that to some ppa so we can verify without busting RC images
<NCommander> [action] NCommander, GrueMaster, plars to test firefox images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander, GrueMaster, plars to test firefox images
<ogra> add me too :)
<ogra> for omap ;)
<asac> hehe
<asac> ogra: does ffox start on beagle?
<ogra> sure
<asac> good
<NCommander> ogra: how many days does it take?
<ogra> did even when we still had a live image
<NCommander> [action] NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox images
<dmart> asac: can you let me know the details in the firefox issue later?  Out tools guys may be interested...
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox images
<ogra> NCommander, faster than imx51 :P
<ogra> (in live image at least)
<asac> dmart: lets talk about this after meeting. yes.
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate gphoto FTBFS
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate gphoto FTBFS
<asac> ogra: wow
<NCommander> Short story: our buildds suck
<asac> NCommander: so i had this here too and its hanging in dot
<ogra> but we dont have live images anymore so i cant show off with that :)
<NCommander> Slightly longer story: doxygen hangs on imx51 :-/
<asac> from graphviz package
<asac> is looping
<ogra> NCommander, the package sucks
<NCommander> asac: yeah, it doesn't do it on dove though.
<ogra> has nothing to do with our buildds
<NCommander> ogra: builds fine on dove
<persia> The buildds also aren't great.  I can build hdf5 locally, but it fails on buildds.
<ogra> its simply building the arch all portion under armel
<ogra> which it shouldnt
<asac> NCommander: maybe its in libimagemagick
<asac> does that use something special?
<asac> ;)
<ogra> just fix gphoto
<asac> ogra: ?
<ogra> the packaging is clearly broken
<NCommander> ogra: I'm going to work around the issue, to change the build behavior will be an invasive patch. I discussed this with slangasek so I just need to kick a debdiff
<ogra> asac, it builds arch all stuff under armel
<asac> ogra: generting a graph on the builder hangs
<NCommander> ogra: its not the packaging, its the package. configure builds docs if doxygen is detected
<ogra> asac, for -doc packages that are arch all
<ogra> NCommander, right ...
<ogra> for lucid -> quick fix
<ogra> for the meerkat fix it *right*
<NCommander> ogra: yes, that was my plan
<ogra> already uploaded ?
<NCommander> ogra: no, haven't fired a test build into a devirtualized PPA yet. Will do today
<ogra> (we know that since last wed.)
<NCommander> ogra: know what?
<ogra> the packaging issue with all vs any
<asac> NCommander: i see it hanging here on imx51 on a plain install
<asac> why would a devirtualized ppa better?
<NCommander> asac: it didn't hang here, but I think I let it build for 20 hours without checking on it :-)
<persia> asac: Tests the actual buildd environment, rather than something else.
<asac> NCommander: i left it running over a night hanging in the "dot"
<asac> persia: well. it hangs here at the same place where it hangs on the builders ;)
<NCommander> so I'll finish this today
<ogra> thanks :)
<asac> ok .ext
<asac> next
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS
<asac> buildd situation was discussed
<NCommander> [topic] asac to discuss the buildd situation with lamont
<MootBot> New Topic:  asac to discuss the buildd situation with lamont
<NCommander> asac: results?
<ogra> we have them
<asac> NCommander: we have 9 builders
<asac> err 8 now it seems
<asac> anyway ... all bbg3 is my last update on that
<ogra> polus 1 livefs builder
<ogra> *plus
<asac> and the build queue is empty
<NCommander> cool
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> [topic] Current Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<ogra> we'Re touching the trendline again ?
<asac> so there are a bunch of work items
<asac> we should go through and clean them up
<asac> we want to be at ZERO
<ogra> ++
<asac> i am not sure what to do with my firefox tasks
<asac> maybe i will throw them over the fence to chris coulson ;)
<asac> but i think they might even be done by now
<asac> i have to check
 * ogra wonders why uboot imx still shows up 
<ogra> do i need to set POSTPONED to DROPPED or something ?
<asac> ogra: yeah. let me check
<asac> ogra: i can take that off the lucid radar completely
<asac> but that would make all DONE items disappear
<ogra> yeah, do that
<asac> let me see
<ogra> it would fix the red stuff in the graph
<ogra> devicetree seems similar
<asac> ogra: i made that now deferred
<asac> not sure if that changes a thing
<ogra> we'll see in 1h :)
<asac> ogra: if it doesnt disappear set the reset to POSTPONE
<ogra> it *is* all postponed
<asac> persia: there are a couple of itms on that list for you
<asac> about desktop-lucid-xorg-enable-century-usb-screen
<asac> have never heard of that spec before ;)
<ogra> yay for last minute specs :)
<GrueMaster> I thought that was hinging on bryce doing something.
<persia> These are brand-new for me for now.  They will not be done for lucid.
<ogra> yeah, bryce commented in the spec
<persia> I don't even have hardware to test that driver, and won't until bryce gives me back my device at UDS.
<ogra> all postpone
<persia> postpone?  Is that how we cancel stuff entirely?
<ogra> "During the sprint I received a Century USB monitor device thingee from Persia which needs to have X support added for it."
<ogra> thats the spec description
<ogra> so you dont have it anymore ?
<persia> No.  Bryce has my hardware.
<davidm> I heard from bryce, it would take a lot of work (coding) to make these devices work correctly so he is not doing it.
<ogra> ah
<ogra> davidm, mine works but needs an xorg.conf
<davidm> Perhaps we can chase upstream or do it ourselves at some point.
<persia> Yeah, I got it to that stage by packaging upstream.
<davidm> Yea, the autodetection is hard
 * ogra has a displaylink adapter but no time to do anything with it atm
<persia> upstream is mostly inactive, but the xrandr stuff is potentially possible to add.
<persia> autodetection is something that nobody should expect from me :)
<ogra> salcker !
<ogra> :)
 * NCommander hides from X
<asac> ok. for the workitem parrt of this discussion: ... persia can you confirm with bryce that nothing can be done for release and then postpone and drop a comment?
<ogra> it has three TODO items that need to be changed
<persia> I've confirmed already.  Is "POSTPONED" correct?  Is there no "CANCELLED" or "DROPPED"?
 * ogra isnt sure
<NCommander> persia: I think if you just remove the item, it popped off the list
<asac> persia: i think DROPPPED was discussed, but wasnt implemented yet
<asac> so just POSTPONE
<asac> or POSTPONED ... i think both are ok
<persia> OK.  POSTPONE it is, but if someone wants it done, they should do it :)
<asac> persia: so to summarize: all the items for you on that spec are postpone?
<persia> Yes.
<asac> ok that keeps us below the trend again ;)
<NCommander> \o/
<asac> ok ...  i think thats it for work items
<NCommander> can I mov eon?
<asac> lets move on
<asac> yep
<persia> Folks should tell me if they want me to do stuff, rather than just updating random whiteboards :)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<asac> persia: so the problem was that you didnt know that those were your items ;)?
<cooloney> for fsl-imx51 kernel, 2 fec patches were applied. they fixed the fec performance drop issue
<ogra> \o/
<cooloney> i posted a patch fixing ifdown system hang issue. it was reviewed, need some updates and testing again.
<cooloney> i filed a bug #567157 about regulator issue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567157 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulators enabled at boot and also print error messages at boot." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567157
<cooloney> need some test, heh
 * ogra thought we had a bug for that already
<cooloney> and too bad, my bb2.5 strikes now
<cooloney> can not boot
<cooloney> ogra: really?
<ogra> Bug 446140
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446140 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulator issues with 2.6.31 vs 2.6.28 with the same patchset" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446140
 * ogra wonders why thats fix released though
<cooloney> yeah, that's why i did not find it
<cooloney> it was closed as fix released
<asac> ok ... GrueMaster can you test the kernel from cooloney on bbg to verify the regulartor issue?
<asac> cooloney: thats what is needed, right?
<ogra> cooloney, right, but same issue
<GrueMaster> planned on it after the meeting.
<asac> ok thanks. i dont think we need an action, do we?
<cooloney> asac: right.
<asac> ok anything else on imx?
<cooloney> asac: no, i am done
<asac> ericm: ... any update on dove kernel?
<ericm> not much update for mvl-dove, just confirmed with Marvell that suspend/resume works with our recent kernel on their side, but I need to confirm with GrueMaster and plars as well
<asac> thanks cooloney
<asac> ericm: how does marvell confirm that if you ask them? do they use our image etc.?
<plars> ericm: istr one of the kernels I tested for you recently had it working again, I'll confirm with the latest image today
<ericm> hibernation/resume is reported to work with explict resume=/dev/sda2 on kernel command line
<ogra> erm
<ericm> plars, thanks
<ogra> we set that in initramfs
<ericm> asac, they are supposed to use lucid-beta
<ogra> but based on UUID i think
<GrueMaster> testing it now on my dove with RC build.
<asac> ericm: right. just wonder what that means ;) ... do they use their own kernel etc.?
<ericm> ogra, I know - that's why I'm debugging
<ericm> asac, nope - they are using our kernel
<ogra> ericm, /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-premount/resume
<asac> very good. so chances are hhigh that this is really fixed, which probably makes a great dove release ;)
<asac> thanks ericm
<asac> (and NCommander of course )
<ericm> ogra, from the log - it seems that restoring from swap is actually OK in both cases
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately, it is not working on my dove.
<ericm> but weird that with initramfs it failed to resume at the last step
<asac> oh ... we want to fix resume= in inintramfs ogra ?
<ogra> asac, iirc the installer writes the UUID somewhere and the initramfs script reads that
<ericm> GrueMaster, I doubt it's a HW issue as I'm also unable to resume from suspend with my original dove board til I replaced one with Marvell shanghai
<ogra> so it might be an issue with dove subarch missing something wrt installation
<ericm> ogra, that's /etc/initramfs/conf.d/resume
<ericm> /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume, sorry
<ogra>  /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> do you have the swap UUID in there in your dove install ?
<ericm> ogra, the resuming from swap is actually OK in both cases
<ericm> ogra, yes
<ogra> ah, k
 * ogra doesnt understand the issue then
<ericm> ogra, yeah it's weird
<ogra> isnt resuming from swpa all we want ?
<ogra> *swap
<ogra> if that works, whats the issue ?
<ericm> ogra, apart from that, the system will still undergo a full resume process and a SoC specific resume routine to restore the PC to what it was before
<ogra> so it resumes twice ?
 * ogra doesnt understand
<ericm> ogra, not necessarily, the first is reboot + restoring ram from swap, the 2nd part is a resume process + restoring of PC
<ericm> ogra, we can put it offline maybe
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> move on
<ericm> nothing more, I think we can move on
<plars> of the two, I would thinkg suspend/resume is much more important
<asac> ok action: ericm and ogra and NCommander to sort out resume on dove ;)
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<ogra> asac,  i dont have the HW
<asac> ack ... suspend/resume is important
<ogra> happy to give tips though
<plars> and it sounds like suspend/resume may be still broken as well
<ogra> where i can
<asac> ogra: well, but you have valuable input even without that it seems
<NCommander> asac: probably not going to happen for lucid release, might be able to SRU it
 * plars will test also today
<ericm> plars, thanks
<asac> ok NCommander give action and move on ;)
<ogra> ++
<asac> (10 minutes left)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
 * ogra listens 
 * asac hands mic to GrueMaster 
<plars> Looks like GrueMaster cranked through all of the iso images yesterday
<GrueMaster> Still a lot of bugs on live/installed image.  Will detail list and email it out today.
<asac> GrueMaster: thanks. maybe add that to the meeting wiki too
<asac> that gets send to everyone
<GrueMaster> Will do.
<asac> GrueMaster: at best under the standing item (e.g. not in activity)
<plars> I was spending some time with the TI image yesterday, server install seems to work pretty well for me, but had some problems with the netbook image at the end with FlashKernel
<plars> so install did not complete
<ogra> plars, solved today
<ogra> but needs an update of livecd-rootfs on the livefs builder
<ogra> not sure when the cronjob runs
<plars> also, the xserver-xorg-video-*omap* doesn't seem to work, but I think I saw an email from ogra that may indicate the reason
<ogra> so tomorrows or tomorrow+1 image will work
<GrueMaster> ogra: I think the cron jobs are shut off during release week.
<ogra> plars, yeah, i looked at that today
<ogra> plars, sudo ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb should fix it :)
<plars> ogra: is it the same problem with both of them?
<asac> plars: do you only have /dev/fb0?
<ogra> GrueMaster, not the one on the livefs builder that keeps the packages up to date :)
<asac> or also fb1?
<ogra> asac, both
<asac> i want to fix the -omap package to check for those too
<ogra> fb1 is used for xv
<plars> asac: yes
<asac> ogra: do you know what omap board had /dev/fb?
<plars> asac: linking to fb does fix it
<asac> because thats clearly hard coded as the default in the driver ... while it shouldprobably also ceck for fb0 etc.
<ogra> asac, no idea, beagle has fb0 and 1
<ogra> asac, i can give you a debdiff with fix for lucid ... just didnt have time to test yet
<plars> ogra: actually I even have fb2
<NCommander> ogra: dove has fb0, 1, and sometimes 2
<asac> ACTION: asac/ogra to fix -omap driver to check for /dev/fb0 too if /dev/fb isnt avail
<ogra> right, the driver uses fb0 and 1
<asac> can we have a bug?
<ogra> but has /dev/fb hardcoded
<plars> asac: was just working on that before the meeting started
<ogra> i'll file one after meeting
<ogra> unless plars beats me to it :)
<asac> ok ... let me know ... and attach patch; if its as i wanted it that means its probably right ;)
<asac> ogra: so you alreadcy have the patch?
<asac> otherwise i can also do it.
<ogra> #define DEFAULT_DEVICE "/dev/fb"
<asac> well
<asac> i would prefer to check fb0 on top
<asac> ;)
<asac> rather than just changeing DEFAULT_DEVICE
<ogra> well, lool had an idea to change the code completely
<ogra> but thats rather intrusive
<asac> I would suspect it was added there for some reason ;) ... and we could avoid breaking that use case
<asac> i will look then
<asac> i already looked. didnt feel that intrusive
<ogra> using fbdev_open() and fbdevHWInit()
<ogra> see xorg-server/hw/xfree86/fbdevhw/fbdevhw.c
<asac> yes. i will see if that makes sense
<asac> otherwise we can fall back to plain hacky approach ;)
<ogra> yeah
<lool> ogra: "change the code completely" indeed sounds intrusive...
<asac> ok moving on ...
<asac> "ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet) "
<plars> we are about out of time
<ogra> lool, adding code to use these functions vs a one char change :)
<asac> yes.
<JamieBennett> Evolution still in the image :(
<asac> just quick:
<asac> persia: can you please take the action to get evolution of that image?
<ogra> NCommander, proposed to check the deps
<asac> you basically volunteered to do that ;)
<NCommander> [topic] sudo landscape-config --url https://staging.landscape.canonical.com/message-system --ping-url http://staging.landscape.canonical.com/ping
<MootBot> New Topic:  sudo landscape-config --url https://staging.landscape.canonical.com/message-system --ping-url http://staging.landscape.canonical.com/ping
<NCommander> er
 * NCommander coughs
<ogra> huh ?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<NCommander> C*P fail
 * ogra wonders if there is a meeting after us
<asac> NCommander: right. see action for persia above
<JamieBennett> not much else apart from desktop-webmail needs moving to Office category
<asac> JamieBennett: i dont think it has to
<plars> JamieBennett: it should probably go in favorites as well
<asac> other mailers are in internet too
<NCommander> [action] persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images
<plars> JamieBennett: especially if it's going to be replacing evo on that image
<asac> thanks
<JamieBennett> asac: its where people will go looking for email since they are used to evolution being there
<asac> well. debatable ;) ... all tbird users (which are 50%) go for internet
<asac> lets take this offline
<asac> image status?
<JamieBennett> asac: OK, not a big deal
<asac> NCommander: ^
<NCommander> [action] asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back
<ogra> images seem to work ok though bug 563618 seems to hit JamieBennett on imx51 now too, omap misses a working netbook image (the others work, netbook should be ready tomorrow as mentioned above)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563618 in util-linux "Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots; not ignoring results in fsck failure; no solution to this problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563618
 * ogra points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall
<asac> sigh
<ogra> i'll create the same for server ... and netbook
<asac> JamieBennett: i think you can hit "M" key when its looping
<asac> to go to maintenance shell
<JamieBennett> ogra: after setting the clock correctly it still hangs for me
<ogra> slangasek told me he would take a look at the approach but i think he is to busy atm
<JamieBennett> (on next boot)
<JamieBennett> (with power still applied)
<persia> Sorry.  Laptop hung.  I'm happy with my action.
<ogra> JamieBennett, did you edit the two fstab files ?
<asac> persia: thx
<persia> omap fb may be complicated: there's a known workaround in case it is.
<JamieBennett> ogra: not yet, will after the meeting
<asac> ok lets take that offline
<asac> i dont think we will find a solution during meeing for this bad bug
<ogra> NCommander, AOB ... move !
<NCommander> [action] persia and asac to take omap fb issue offline and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia and asac to take omap fb issue offline and report back
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<asac> NCommander: omap fb?
<asac> that was about  bug 563618
<ogra> heh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563618 in util-linux "Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots; not ignoring results in fsck failure; no solution to this problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563618
<asac> and didnt involve me ;)
<asac> but no action neeeded imo
<NCommander> [action] persia to take omap fb issue offline and report back
<asac> so AOB?
<ogra> no
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to take omap fb issue offline and report back
<ogra> no
<persia> No
<ogra> lol
<asac> omg
<asac> ;)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
<plars> omap fb bug is bug #567260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567260 in xf86-video-omapfb "xserver-xorg-video-omap* fail due to no /dev/fb" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567260
<ogra> NCommander, we had that
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> soryr
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<asac> ok lets wrap up ;)
<ogra> we had AOB too already ... you just got confused
<ogra> #endmeeting :)
<asac> anything else?
<asac> ok thanks!!
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:04.
 * NCommander goes to kill the cat
<GrueMaster> Thus ends another well organized and smooth flowing meeting.
<ogra> clap clap clap
 * NCommander sulks away
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:05. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sabdfl> well done all
<kees> \o
<mdz> Tech board
<mdz> cjwatson sent apologies
<mdz> pitti is expected
<pitti> o/
<mdz> I haven't heard from Keybuk, and he's traveling, so I suspect he won't be here
<pitti> (isn't it more like "he would like to travel, but can't"?)
<mdz> yes
<mdz> anyway:
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mdz> [topic] action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  action review
<mdz> Riddell says there is no update on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy
<mdz> cjwatson's actions are still pending
<mdz> pitti's action is done
<pitti> syncs> there were quite a few answers, I did a summary on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-April/030655.html
<mdz> pitti, yes, I saw, thanks for summarizing
<mdz> [topic] autopano-sift patent concern (Jo Shields)
<MootBot> New Topic:  autopano-sift patent concern (Jo Shields)
<pitti> it's not fully clear whether we should go back to unstable for maverick, but given that Debian will get into freeze soon, it's probably prudent to do so
<pitti> ah, sorry
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000174.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000174.html
<pitti> so, this limits usage in the US, but not distribution
<mdz> directhex, hi, thanks for joining
<pitti> wouldn't that be a case for multiverse rather?
<pitti> (instead of removing it from teh archive)
<directhex> ah, my SIFT mail
<mdz> pitti, really, why?
<mdz> wouldn't the patent cover the implementation, not just its execution?
<pitti> (FTR, the "LICENSE" document is just the standard GPL, it has no further details)
<pitti> mdz: it seems to be the very same case as libmad
<pitti> i. e. GPL implementation of a patented algorithm
<pitti> but I'm not enough of a patent expert to say, TBH
<mdz> it doesn't seem to be present in Debian
<mdz> and is -0ubuntu, so I assume it was packaged for Ubuntu only?
<directhex> it's indeed not present in debian
<pitti> correct
<pitti> (no hard rdepends either)
<directhex> i only really chanced upon it by accident, since it's not under the usual cross-distro maintenance
<mdz> multiverse sounds appropriate to me based on pitti's analysis
<kees> multiverse seems reasonable
<pitti> does a patent really already forbid implementation? or usage?
<pitti> in the latter case, multiverse should be just fine
<mdz> is this something we should concern ourselves with for lucid?
<pitti> since it's allowed to be run anywhere but the US
<mdz> pitti, IANAL
<pitti> mdz: do you think we can/should annoy Amanda with that?
<pitti> it seems that we have had this case several times, and we are still not quite sure how to treat those
<mdz> pitti, I think annoying sabdfl should be sufficient
 * mdz prods sabdfl
<sabdfl> eck
<sabdfl> i feel prodded
<mdz> sabdfl, thoughts?
<sabdfl> there's an alleged patent, but no word from the patent applicant, i'd say we can defer judgment on the issue to a future release or communication
<pitti> (for the record, it's been in universe since at least dapper)
<pitti> so, we wouldn't cause any inconsistency by moving it to multiverse
<sabdfl> i would leave it in universe
<mdz> directhex, anything to add?
<sabdfl> there are hundreds of thousands of potential patent mines out there, we can't blink to multiverse or withdraw without a conversation with the patent holder, or knowledge of others having gone through the details with them
<directhex> no, not at all
<sabdfl> we're easily reachable by anybody who has a claim they think we need to be aware of
<directhex> i feel no real interest in the package, other than that it happens to be under the new package group's remit
<pitti> sabdfl: oh, did we talk about the double click yet?
<mdz> directhex, thanks for bringing this to our attention
<sabdfl> :-)
<pitti> ok, thanks
<mdz> in this case, we actually know who the patent holder is (according to the author of the software)
<mdz> (alleged)
<pitti> Mark locuta, causa finita est :)
<mdz> Notice: The SIFT algorithm is restricted by patents in the United States and hence this software is not completely free to use. For details see the LICENSE file included in the distribution, before you start to use this software.
<mdz> The University of British Columbia has applied for a patent on the SIFT algorithm in the United States. Commercial applications of this software may require a license from the University of British Columbia.
<pitti> (as another hint, http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~nowozin/autopano-sift/ says "restricted usage", not "restricted distribution")
<mdz> sounds like the consensus is that we need take no action on this at the present time
<pitti> agreed
 * kees nods
<directhex> as long as a decision was made by someone who isn't me, i'm happy
<mdz> note that the bug report is from someone who asks for it to be removed: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/autopano-sift/+bug/550255
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 550255 in autopano-sift "SIFT algorithm is patented in US" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mdz> but it's not clear that they are aware of the patent policy
<directhex> is it my job, or someone from the TB, to respond to the bug with the outcome?
<mdz> directhex, I'll include this in the minutes, and if you could follow up to the bug with a reference, I'd appreciate it
<directhex> mdz, okay.
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> (there are no open community bugs or orphaned mailing list threads that I'm aware of)
<pitti> I'm next on the alphabetical list
<mdz> next chair is pitti :-)
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:24.
<sabdfl> thanks all
<Daviey> I have some concerns about mysql-*-5.0 being removed from the archive.  Those who explicitally installed 5.0 won't have a valid upgrade path
<pitti> thanks everyone
<Daviey> damn, missed it
<persia> Could I solicit consensus that the DMB, and not the TB is to create new packageset teams?
<sabdfl> Daviey: was this discussed on -devel?
<pitti> Daviey: not really a TB matter anyway; we could discuss in #u-devel IMHO
<Daviey> sabdfl: briefly
<sabdfl> persia: -> email
<persia> sabdfl: OK.  I'll wait for the rest to confirm mdz's comment :)
<mdz> Daviey, ->server team?
<Daviey> mdz: ok
<persia> (specifically https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-April/000184.html )
<sabdfl> +1 from me if it's waiting for a poll, persia
<mdz> persia, I believe that's the position I took in the email thread, yes
<pitti> +1 from me on that, too
<mdz> and I think it got +1 from a majority
<persia> Thanks all: I'll call that quorate :)
<pitti> (I answered by mail already)
<pitti> persia: notwithstanding the poll, I think it currently requires some special cjwatson magick to actually implement those teams, though
<persia> pitti: I saw your mail confirming team approval, but not authorising the DMB to create new teams without first checking with the TB.
<persia> No, it requires special TB magic, but we have a bug open against LP for that :)
<JFo> o/
<bjf> o/
<kamalm> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<cnd> o/
<anyoneofus> nobawk: :D
<bjf> Roll Call
 * JFo here
<sconklin> here
 * apw waves
<kamalm> here
<cnd> here
 * anyoneofus here
<JFo> hi anyoneofus
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<anyoneofus> hi JFo
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (2 bugs, 1 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (266 bugs against all packages)
<JFo>  * 40 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 0 blueprints
<JFo>     
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:121
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> You will notice I have left off the milestone numbners as there isn't one
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<JFo> kernel-lucid-bug-handling:
<JFo> [apw] kerneloops -- ensure ubuntu oopses are detected correctly:TODO
<JFo> [apw] kerneloops -- move to bugs only coming through launchpad:TODO
<JFo> [apw] c-o-d -- we should be building the tip of lucid daily, uploading to pre-proposed:TODO
<JFo> [apw] c-o-d -- can we build some bisect points between releases:TODO
<JFo> [jeremyfoshee] documentation -- re-organize kernel team wiki pages :INPROGRESS
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<JFo> I hope to have the proposal for the wiki pages out this week.
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<apw> .
<cnd> I'll note that there's an ftrace/profiling config I found last week that would be nice to have, will send patch out when I get a chance
<apw> the only outstanding issue here is the report for ubuntu-devel
<apw> not critical, still on my todo list
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<apw> .
<sconklin> ..
<apw> we pushed in a couple of patches to disable kms for i8xx
<apw> and for ES1000 radeon.  i suspect there will be a few more, but they
<apw> will have to wait till sru now
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> fixed a lot of bugs, and apw was nice enough to pull them into lucid
<jjohansen> I have patches for a couple other issues to SRU in testing, that I need to open bugs for (reports came in from PLD linux)
<jjohansen> and I am revising what I hope is the last audit patch for upstreaming
<jjohansen> also have started looking at Bug #567334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567334 in linux "apparmor issue delays cloud-init for 240 seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567334
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> My lucid specific deliverables are all completed. Put out a pull request on a Lucid-LBM
<bjf> update of alsa-driver to 1.0.23.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<cnd> nothing new, I thought this was marked as completed?
<cnd> ..
<bjf> will be removed from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> no change from last time
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
<apw> lucid is all frozen, we have nothing currently planned for upload before releasae
<apw> we are starting to collect things for SRU, but this does mean they will be SRU'd from here on in
<tgardner> apw, bryce thinks the radeon dual DVI patch is critical
<apw> and require all the associated documentation to make it
<apw> tgardner, we already had a respin for X i suspect we'll get a lot of push back
<apw> if there is any way it can be worked round on the command line
<tgardner> apw, not too my knowledge.
<apw> tgardner, is there a work around for it?
<tgardner> its a HW detection thing
<tgardner> I'm ambivalent. you can duke it out w/Bryce.
<apw> the release team will be most upset...  do we have tested patches yet?
<tgardner> I've submitted it as an SRU
<apw> ta, will have a chat with bryce and see whats what there
<tgardner> apw, yes to tested patches
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.83  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.68  (security)
<smb>              2.6.24-27.69  (proposed)[27]  1/ 3 verifications done (+0)
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.46  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-20.58  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-21.59  (proposed)[27]  5/19 verifications done (+3)
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-21.23  (proposed)[27]  1/ 2 verifications done (+1)
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-212.26 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-213.27 (proposed)[27]
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-109.25 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-111.27 (proposed)[20]  1/ 1 verifications done
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-109.25 (security)
<smb>              2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[27]
<smb> It might be time to think about releasing Karmic to updates. Will see what
<smb> the SRU team thinks of it.
<smb> While being there I wondered
<smb> whether there is a better way for rebased topic branches to indicate ack/nack
<smb> Currently I could not say whether someone looked at the ec2 in proposed for example
<smb> As there is not a bug against it
<apw> right ... hrm
<smb> But that we might think of later
<smb> Just thought I bring it up here
<smb> ..
<apw> perhaps we should file a 'test this' bug for those with testers
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> 957 Lucid Bugs
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 311 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 10 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 52 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> please take note of the nearly 1000 lucid bugs
<JFo> not much else changed.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report. The kernel is frozen. Next Bug Day TBA.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<JFo> .
<bjf> go JFo
<JFo> I have been made aware of a specific issue
<JFo> Apport breakage: Users fallback to an older kernel post-update and get an error indicating that the kernel they are using is invalid.
<JFo> "the problem is: user tries to boot x.y.z-2, it fails, so they boot back to x.y.z-1, and then can't report the bug"
<JFo> is anyone aware of a method we can use to address this in the future?
<JFo> I just wanted to mention it here
<JFo> we can discuss offline
<JFo> ..
<kamalm> .
<bjf> kamalm, go
<kamalm> I am working on my first patch submission, which fixes LP: #553498
<kamalm> ..
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553498 in linux "Dell Studio 1558 (Arrandale) hangs on resume from suspend" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553498
<bjf> going ...
<apw> .
<bjf> go apw
<apw> just to say it seems that nomodeset works round the ATI issue we were discussing tgardner ... so probabally it can wait to SRU
<apw> ..
<tgardner> apw, works for me
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:22.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<apw> bjf ta
<kamalm> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks bjf
<smb> ta
<cnd> thanks
<czajkowski> meeting in 3 mins folks
<Jiraiya> then 20 utc is not 22 german time?
<czajkowski> it's 20 UTC or 21 BST
<Mirv> it's now 19 UTC
<Agafonov> 23 Moscow time :)
<Jiraiya> hm, according to wikipedia germany is utc+1 without summer time
<czajkowski> #meeting
<Mirv> yes, it's only 19:03 UTC now, meeting at 20:00 UTC
<Mirv> UTC doesn't do summer times
<_marx_> hum, date; date -u
<czajkowski> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=16&month=3&year=2010&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<Jiraiya> then the others will come to late
<Jiraiya> too late
<AlanBell> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: April 20 2010, 19:04:56
<czajkowski> sory meetin in 1 hour
<bcurtiswx> oh BTW.. google does understand UTC.  It just translates to the timezone you have in your google settings
<Jiraiya> hm, kde-world-clock-plasmoid says that ist 20:09 in london which should be UTC. now i'm confused
<acicula> Jiraiya: its not utc time in london
<Jiraiya> then wikipedia is wrong ;)
<acicula> well there's a shocker
<bcurtiswx> ^^ that
<acicula> adjust for summertime ;)
<papapep> The United Kingdom moves its clocks forward by one hour during the last Sunday of March until the last Sunday of October, thus observing BST instead of GMT during this period
<papapep> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/united-kingdom-bst.html
<papapep> so I guess it's already 20:13 UTC
<Mirv> you see, UK moves clocks forward, ie. to UTC+1, but UTC is always the same
<acicula> BST==GMT+1 ~= UTC+1
<papapep> oh, yep
<papapep> it's 19:14 then
<acicula> well in utc yeah
<Jiraiya> i surrender ;) i would say we meet in about 45 minutes. then the others won't come too late
<Mirv> yes, the difference between GMT ad UTC is even more interesting :)
<alexm> the problem was that the timeanddate.com url above still has march as the month, not april
<alexm> try this one: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=16&month=4&year=2010&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
<czajkowski> ok this isn't a chatting idle room folks
<stk_> CoconutCrab: where's afterlastangel?
<CoconutCrab> ngá»§ rá»i
<CoconutCrab> ops
<stk_> CoconutCrab: should we call him and wake him up?
<CoconutCrab> not neccessary
<CoconutCrab> yet
<effie_jayx> leogg: o/
<czajkowski> effie_jayx: *aloha*
<czajkowski> effie_jayx: just the person
<effie_jayx> czajkowski: hey there...
<czajkowski> see pm
<michazoet> hi
<maco> hello
<CoconutCrab> hello
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<stk_> aloha
<huats> hello !
<pedro_> hey hey :-)
<_marx_> afternoon
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<kjcole_> Greetings Overlords! ;-)
<afterlastangel> good morning (2am in Viet Nam)
<stk_> 3am
<CoconutCrab> 3, not 2
<czajkowski> todays agenda and we will be working from the top down in the items then moving onto the teams
<czajkowski> ok
<kamusin> hey!
<stk_> afterlastangel: are you still sleepy nbow, dude
<v4vortex> greetings from berlin, germany
<stk_> czajkowski: please, go on
<stk_> :-)
<Jiraiya> greets from franconia, germany ;)
<czajkowski> [topic]Ubuntu El Salvador Update
<MootBot> New Topic: Ubuntu El Salvador Update
<czajkowski> effie_jayx: can you please discuss this
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> I just wanted to follow up on the talks regarding resolving internal issues in ubuntu el salvador
<effie_jayx> anyone here from el salvador?
<effie_jayx> right
<czajkowski> shame
<effie_jayx> I guess I will run down the issue for the record and it will be up to the LoCo COuncil to follow up on email
<czajkowski> please
<celvin> effie_jayx,
<effie_jayx> Ubuntu el salvador seems to have fallen in to a bit of fragmentation
<effie_jayx> there is a group of people in the members that is pretending not disregard the admins in the Salvador team
<effie_jayx> the last we intevinEd IN the issUe
<effie_jayx> ubuntu-sv admins had allowed David Cruz back in the team mailing list
<effie_jayx> however david believes this did not happen, though I believe admins can prove this wrong
<_marx_> [idea] mediation
<effie_jayx> and perhaps I believe the fact that issues are not healthy there the LoCo Council can only suggest and try to mend things
<MootBot> IDEA received:  mediation
<czajkowski> ok so the loco council asked the el salvador team here to talk and we've asked a few times
<czajkowski> _marx_: please don't
<_marx_> k
<czajkowski> [action] the loco council will follow up on this in email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  the loco council will follow up on this in email
<czajkowski> effie_jayx: thanks
<effie_jayx> czajkowski: it is really shamefull that the parts won-t meet to solve this
<effie_jayx> czajkowski: thank you and I will hope this comes to a nice resolve
<czajkowski> [topic] Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads
<MootBot> New Topic:  Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads
<czajkowski> [link]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392976
<MootBot> LINK received: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392976 in ubuntu-community "Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads" [Medium,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> this came to light recently and I'm wondering do many locos know about this Leadership CoC
<czajkowski> there is also at present no way to sign this Leadership CoC in the same way there is to sign the CoC
<czajkowski> and with that we've created a Blueprint
<czajkowski> [link]https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-leadership-code-of-conduct-should-be-signed-by-loco-team-leaders
<MootBot> LINK received: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-leadership-code-of-conduct-should-be-signed-by-loco-team-leaders
<czajkowski> if anyone would like to suggest some ideas on it we'd appreciate it
<celvin> David Cruz was readmitted to the mailing list, but on condition that he most to leave the bad attitude and focus to work for the project.
<czajkowski> this doesn't just effect locos  so we're not sure of the implication
<bejames> define "leader"
<czajkowski> bejames: yes this is one issue that needs to be defined
<kwah> impossible
<paultag> If I may interject
<czajkowski> so is a leader someone who is in charge of a Mailing list
<akgraner> I have a question can you add contacts/leaders as not all team contacts are the leaders?
<czajkowski> a webmaster
<paultag> whenever someone is in a position is oversight, their actions effect those who the oversee
<paultag> it would be natural, therefore, to have anyone who is in a position of oversight to sign the LCoC
<czajkowski> akgraner: yes this is true and in many cases a point of contact is what is referred to in some teams as a team leader and this isn't the case
<czajkowski> paultag: exactly
<akgraner> *nods*
<kjcole> Team Janitor might be a more fitting term.
<czajkowski> kjcole: nice idea
<bejames> does there need to be a separate CoC. can the existing one incorporate leadership as a sub section?
<kwah> in my opinion this is useless, people do some stuff, they do it well and others follow because they like what has been done or going on
<czajkowski> bejames: the Leadership CoC already exists and is rather long so I think they are rather seperate
<kwah> why do we need another formality?
<darkness51> i am from el salvador
<paultag> kwah, so that when there are issues regarding leadership there is something to be held accountable to
<huats> czajkowski, I think the problem is that Leader is a word that is commonly used in many country (that re not necessary english speaking) while Team Janitr is more complicated...
<czajkowski> kwah: becasuse there are in parts  where it referrs to matters such as graceful stepping down if you are no longer active rather than just remaning idling and not being productive in the team
<czajkowski> huats: true
<JanC> kwah: basically because soem people think leadership is a gift they got from the gods  ;)
<czajkowski> huats: so what can we do with the term Team Leader / Point of Contact
<kwah> most of the time, in my experience, people do not follow such god-like leaders
<kjcole> huats: Admin perhaps?  Maintainer?
<Agafonov> coordinator
<_marx_> +1 Agafonov
<paultag> Contact != Administrator in every case
<JanC> kwah: I hope so, but there have been several issues about leaders like that who owned the keys to web space, mailing lists, etc.
<paultag> Aye, I am liking Coordinator as well
<kjcole> +1
<huats> Leader seems fine to me
<paultag> Do we really need to define this?
<_marx_> leader has connotations
<czajkowski> paultag: yes.
<JanC> I like the term "leader" if explained correctly
<kwah> JanC, heh, this should not happen at the first instance and should be written in guidelines for arranging resources
<paultag> czajkowski, I think it should be enough to say if you oversee any other member or members you need to sign the LCoC
<akgraner> I think many teams have varying positions leadership - and that if a team identifies those positions of leadership - and people agree to those positions  - then they need to "sign" the LCoC
<aim1159> huats: leader is someone who move a group to some point. lead. coordinator just take people together so they can selfogganise into a working group. Coordinator is better
<itnet7> The important part that should be discussed though is that some leaders are not following the leadership CoC, Which makes provisions for team governance
<itnet7> It doesn't matter whether they are Team contactcs or not
<_marx_> perhaps team contact needs a more clear definition
<mhall119> perhaps "team representative"?  Has the connotations of contact and responsibility, without the connotations of ownership or authority
<JanC> kwah: basically, the LCoC makes it possible for everybody in a leadership position to promise to act properly
<czajkowski> so there seesm to be two issues
<huats> I agree with JanC, I think a few words can fit, but the  important is the explanation that should be given
<czajkowski> 1) the word Leader needs to be better defined
<bcurtiswx> What about a team leadership structure.  There's nothing defined, but think about clubs in college.. you had a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer etc... obviously for LoCo's this would be different
<kjcole> Rep is also not a bad choice.
<czajkowski> 2) the issue of signing the Leadership CoC
<paultag> IMHO 1) I think it should be enough to say if you oversee any other member or members you need to sign the LCoC
<paultag> Erm, that is both
<huats> I like the representative word too
<JanC> bcurtiswx: this differs between locoteam (and clubs)
<akgraner> paultag, +1
<huats> since a team can have various representatives
<JanC> paultag: oversee people or resources
<mhall119> paultag: at that point, why not include it as part of the standard CoC?
<paultag> JanC, good point.
<kwah> mhall119, +1
<JanC> it should also apply to server admins etc.
<czajkowski> mhall119: as it's very long
<czajkowski> but perhaps we can look into it.
<paultag> mhall119, I don't disagree, but this is the state that it's in currently, and both documents exist and have existed for a while
<akgraner> I don't think people would read it if it was part of the CoC
<mhall119> as even a one-time event organizer may need to step down gracefully
<mhall119> is the LCoC that long?
<paultag> mhall119, no. Let me find it for you
<akgraner> or that would just glance over it with taking time to pay attention to it fully
<czajkowski> the idea of them being seperate is that if someone wants to become a leader they will take the time to read this dcument mixing it up in the CoC means they may forget about it
<paultag> ( for everyone )
<Agafonov> will the change of CoC require to re-sign it?
<kjcole> And "oversee" suggests I have some sort of magical powers.  Yeah, I suppose I can kick people off IRC, mailing lists, etc.
<JanC> mhall119: peopel don't read anything longer than 1 small paragraph  ;)
<czajkowski> mhall119: it's linked on the blueprint
 * kwah thinks that he saw it only once... shortly
<paultag> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct
<mhall119> czajkowski: hopefully we don't have people forgetting about what's in the CoC that often
<czajkowski> mhall119: we do :)
<mhall119> hmm, that is kind of long to be an add-on
<czajkowski> mhall119: :)
<czajkowski> right so what I' suggest is the following
<kjcole> And get sucked into petty debates about such decisions, but please, no.
<czajkowski> 1 - LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back
<czajkowski> secondly look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about
<paultag> I think that is a thoughtful move.
<czajkowski> ok
<itnet7> ditto
<huats> czajkowski, +1
<mhall119> should thouse be in [ACTION] tags?
<czajkowski> as I just dont want to run out of time
<kwah> 1 is about word Leader ?
<_marx_> +1 on the second
<czajkowski> [action] LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back
<czajkowski> [action] look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about
<MootBot> ACTION received:  look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about
<czajkowski> mhall119: wanted to check first before I made the decision
<mhall119> ok
<_marx_> hopefully all terminology
<czajkowski> [topic] LoCo Health check 3rd Tuesday of the month 6-8pm UTC #ubuntu-locoteams
<MootBot> New Topic:  LoCo Health check 3rd Tuesday of the month 6-8pm UTC #ubuntu-locoteams
<czajkowski> I just wanted to announce we're setting up a  loco health check session on IRC once a month for teams to come along and ask questions
<dcedata> hi all :)
<czajkowski> if they need a hand with events or want to ask for advice
<czajkowski> we'll cover topics you want help with
 * rhkfin seuraa kahta kanavaa ja kattoo Housea samanaikaisesti.. katotaan mikÃ¤ kÃ¤rsii.. kaikki luultavasti..
<czajkowski> and also be inviting people in to give feedback on areas
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck
<rhkfin> (sorry!)
<czajkowski> will be mailing out to teams shortly but if you have items you'd like covered please let me know
<czajkowski> any thoughts on this ?
<kwah> why not just a mailing list discussion?
<_marx_> mailing to all loco teams?
<itnet7> kwah: you're not forced to attend
<itnet7> and the logs will be available
<czajkowski> because mails drag on and this is just to help teams who want to ask questions
<kwah> itnet7, got it, just asking
<czajkowski> and also get feedback on topics
<bejames> downside of IRC is time zones. It's 6:30am in Aus :(
<itnet7> kwah: didn't mean it that way :-)
<czajkowski> kwah: you may not want to come , that's fine others may want to
<itnet7> it has some really good potential though!
<czajkowski> if you;d like topics covered please let us know
<leogg> if there are people from the Spanish community that needs help, I'll be more than glad to translate during the session
<czajkowski> leogg: thank you
<kwah> czajkowski, with followups on mailing list? like digest etc?
<czajkowski> kwah: I'll post the logs
<leogg> czajkowski: you're welcome
<kwah> good
<czajkowski> right moving on to Approvals/Re approvals
<czajkowski> [topic] Mexico LoCo
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mexico LoCo
<czajkowski> who's here from Mexico ????
<czajkowski> no?
<paultag> Hurmm.
<czajkowski> ok we'll move on
<czajkowski> [action] mexio  loco application taken to ML
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mexio  loco application taken to ML
<czajkowski> [topic] Finland LoCo
<MootBot> New Topic:  Finland LoCo
<czajkowski> who's here from Finland ??
<Mirv> o/
<rhkfin> \o/
<ninnnu> o/
<heikki> o/
<Nakkel> o/
<happosade> O/
<Fitzz> o/
<Sysi> o/
<Mobe> o/
<Crazyguy> o/
<itnet7> Nice!!
<huats> nice to see you guys !
<paultag> Holy-
<leogg> :O
<jussi> o/
<paultag> Nice showing!
<Mirv> hello
<czajkowski> ALOHA!! :D
<mhall119> wow
<jykae> o/
<Andre_Gondim> o/
<kjcole> What, no right handed people? ;-)
<paultag> Well done, guys and gals :)
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinnishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinnishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> Mirv: hey so want to tell us what ye guys have been up to
<topyli> o/
<jussi> czajkowski: we have been busy :D
<Mirv> czajkowski: lately the focus has been understandably on lucid, and there is in addition to other preparation work a nice big corporate-co-operation release party happening in May
<Mirv> we've existed since Februrary 2005 so we've a rather long history already
<Mirv> I dug out the original approval IRC meeting one day
<ZeiP> \o
<czajkowski> right so how do you organise things? who does what or how does it work
<Mirv> we've a joint discussion channels of IRC, mailing lists and forums, on the focus of using mailing lists and forums for any important stuff
<Mirv> we lack in formal organization, but compensate with "just do it" attitude
<paultag> Mirv, You guys have a very large network of members, have you guys used that and contributed to events such as the Global Jam ( or smiler ), or done translations?
<Mirv> bi-weekly meetings are nowadays held on IRC
<jussi> Regular meetings happen on irc.
<Mirv> (with AJAX IRC links offered)
<paultag> similar * :)
<czajkowski> Mirv: nice do you post the minutes of the meeting to the mailing list or post to the forum ?
<Mirv> paultag: we've participated in eg. open weeks when translated sessions were tried, among else.
<Mirv> cjohnston: wiki, actually
<heikki> http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Yhteis%C3%B6n_kokous (in Finnish....)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Yhteis%C3%B6n_kokous (in Finnish....)
<jussi> Usually the minutes are translated into nglish for those with limited finnish abilities.
<Mirv> meant that to czajkowski
<jussi> Just give in the english irc channel though.
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> good to know
<czajkowski> Mirv: is there any issue you;ve had to overcome ?
<Mirv> czajkowski: mainly the lack of organization leading to lack of people willing to pull the strings needed
<Mirv> others can correct me :)
<czajkowski> Mirv: so how did you overcome this ?
<czajkowski> or anyone else jump in :)
<Mirv> czajkowski: well this bi-weekly meeting, which is quite new actually, solved at least part of the problem since current issues are actually formally dealt with
<czajkowski> Mirv: so meetings helped, good to know
<Mirv> czajkowski: and well, in the past there was a bit of a problem with ubuntu.fi, which we then happily co-operated with so it joined ubuntu-fi.org
<czajkowski> ok
<rhkfin> The lack of coordination and commitment are maybe the issues we have. The irc meetings help us overcome the lack of coordination nicely, though.
<czajkowski> rhkfin: thanks
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> itnet7: huats paultag leogg any other comments ?
 * jpds hugs http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/ while he's at it.
<itnet7> Not really, I was wondering a bit
<Mobe> and teams should report their progress on the meeting, so they are more responsible nowadays
<huats> honnestly I haven't
<paultag> I'm good czajkowski
<czajkowski> Mobe: exactly
<itnet7> why they aren't using the standard wiki pages, although theirs are very nice!
<huats> I am impressed by the very good work you are doing
<leogg> none, quite impressive team
<itnet7> But that's about it
<itnet7> Just wouldn't want to lose everything over hosting discrepancies
<Mirv> itnet7: the l10n of wiki.ubuntu.com is not perfect, among else
<czajkowski> [vote]right so please vote on the re approval of Finland LoCo
<MootBot> Please vote on: right so please vote on the re approval of Finland LoCo.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> I have no reservations, really good showing
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<huats> +1
<czajkowski> #endvote
<czajkowski> me and the bot are gonna have a falling out
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<itnet7> :-P
<Mirv> (btw *ubuntu-fi.org is on Canonical servers)
<czajkowski> Congrats finland!
<rhkfin> Kiitos - thanks you!
<itnet7> darn bots!
<Mirv> thank you :)
<heikki> thanks!
<leogg> great job finland!
<topyli> thanks all for hearing us
<itnet7> Good Job ubuntu-fi.org
<czajkowski> [topic]CatalÃ   LoCo
<Nakkel> Thank you! :)
<MootBot> New Topic: CatalÃ   LoCo
<czajkowski> who's here from the CatalÃ   LoCo???
<itnet7> Thanks Mirv wasn't sure about that good to know!
<tsdgeos> o/
<papapep> \o/
<alexm> o/
<czajkowski> I was wondering :)
<SiscoGarcia> \o/
<rafael_carreras> o/
<czajkowski> welcome folks
<paultag> Howdy CatalÃ  :)
<papapep> hi!
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReapprovalApplication2010
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReapprovalApplication2010
<Leukim> o/
<itnet7> Hey there rafael_carreras alexm and team!!
<SiscoGarcia> hi!
<alexm> itnet7: cheers!
<czajkowski> rafael_carreras: care to tell us about your team
<rafael_carreras> hi itnet7
<rafael_carreras> ok
<rafael_carreras> we are here for a long time
<rafael_carreras> and you can see a lot of things done
<czajkowski> that you are ,you've done a lot and were great hosts in Barcelona
<rafael_carreras> thanks
<alexm> czajkowski: thanks :)
<itnet7> Very Solid Team!
<paultag> rafael_carreras, Same question to you guys, you guys seem very active, have you used your member network to do testing, translations, and other related sports?
<rafael_carreras> we run Global Jams every six months
<paultag> rafael_carreras, Outstanding. I saw the Ubuntu Remix for CatalÃ , and I love it. Really great idea, by the way.
<czajkowski> rafael_carreras: have you had any issue since you first were approved?
<rafael_carreras> we have another team for translations
<czajkowski> http://www.ossbarcamp.com/wp-content/themes/ossbarcamp/logo6.png  thanks to ye guys :)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ossbarcamp.com/wp-content/themes/ossbarcamp/logo6.png  thanks to ye guys :)
<rafael_carreras> czajkowski: i don't remember big issues
<rafael_carreras> or small, right now
<czajkowski> rafael_carreras: how do you share out items that need to be done?
<rafael_carreras> on our special team mailing list
<rafael_carreras> and wiki
<czajkowski> special? how special?
<rafael_carreras> we have a todo list somewhere in the wiki
<rafael_carreras> we have two separete ailing lists
<rafael_carreras> one for technical issues and another for team related events
<czajkowski> nice idea
<SiscoGarcia> and another one for translations
<paultag> interesting idea
<rafael_carreras> right
<paultag> how is that working for you guys rafael_carreras?
<papapep> czajkowski, to avoid too much organization noise in the helping list
<czajkowski> rafael_carreras: and others, any other comments to make to the council before we vote?
<leogg> rafael_carreras: is the events list an open list?
<alexm> leogg: it is and the archive is public
<rafael_carreras> paultag: i think rather nicely, problem could be non-communication between lists
<papapep> leogg, all the loco resources are fully open
<rafael_carreras> leoog yes, it is
<SiscoGarcia> we've intended to have mainly translated lucid version https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+lang/ca/
<leogg> alexm, papapep, cool
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Re approval of the CatalÃ   LoCo
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Re approval of the CatalÃ   LoCo.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> SiscoGarcia: nice
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<leogg> +1
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<SiscoGarcia> czajkowski, thanks
<paultag> keep up the great work rafael_carreras and the CatalÃ  team :)
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<rafael_carreras> thanks paultag
<huats> Continue like that !
<papapep> thanks to all :)
<Leukim> :)
<rafael_carreras> thaks all
<alexm> thanks!!!
<SiscoGarcia> thanks everybody
<czajkowski> congrats
<leogg> awesome ubuntaires! :)
<SiscoGarcia> ;)
<itnet7> Very good job thanks for all your teams efforts!!
<papapep> leogg ;)
<czajkowski> [topic]DC LoCo Re Approval
<MootBot> New Topic: DC LoCo Re Approval
<paultag> Ah, yes, some Americans :)
<czajkowski> DC team ?
<maco> hiya
<bcurtiswx> o/
<crimsun> hi.
 * maco pokes kjcole
<kjcole> L0
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistrictOfColumbiaTeam/DistrictOfColumbiaTeamApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistrictOfColumbiaTeam/DistrictOfColumbiaTeamApprovalApplication
<itnet7> hey there maco, crimsun \o/
<maco> do we get the longest team name award?
<itnet7> :-)
<huats> hello maco and crimsun
<maco> i suggested something like PlaceInTheUSThatIsNotAState(Yet)ButMaybeSomeDay....
<kjcole> I've always favored Brain-Washington.
<bcurtiswx> first parts too close to my name, i'd get too many e-mails
<paultag> maco, :)
<czajkowski> maco: did you name it
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> nm
<paultag> So, who is contact?
<paultag> Tell us a bit about the last few events you have held
<kjcole> C'est moi.
<paultag> kjcole, :)
<maco> czajkowski: when we learned it was supposed to be the full state name not the abbreviation, we were making jokes about the fact that we dont live in a state
<paultag> kjcole, So, tell us a bit about your LoCo, some of the best events you have had in the last two years
<kjcole> We've been around since the early days.
<kjcole> We have t
<kjcole> Damned keyboard....
<paultag> take your time ;)
<kjcole> we have Installfests, and show up at large events to distribute cds.
<jelkner> we have yearly presence at a folk festival
<czajkowski> so howw are events organised, how do you figure who does what ?
<kjcole> FOSE and takoma park folk fest are real regulars.
<jelkner> the email list and irc channel
<kjcole> I generally find opportunities and send out mailings
<maco> and wait for people to raise their hands
<jelkner> which they mostly do ;-)
<czajkowski> good
<itnet7> How many of your members participate in the weekly bugjams?
<kjcole> I am a prime example of why "leader" is a bad term and "contact" is a good one.
<itnet7> :-) kjcole !
<paultag> kjcole, Aye, I'm in the same boat as you ;)
<maco> 5-ish?
<czajkowski> kjcole: we have a similar issue over here in ireland, but not on topic now :)
<bcurtiswx> 5-ish in the bugjams
<maco> theres a core group of about 5 people who do most of the stuff
<itnet7> thanks maco and bcurtiswx
<jelkner> kjcole leads by example, and does a darn good job of it!
<paultag> maco, I know you are MOTU, but how productive are the regulars?
<itnet7> thanks jelkner !
<paultag> I meant that as nicely as I can
<kjcole> Lately, there has been an increase in opportunities (Digital Capital Week, DC Community Broadband Summit, etc.)
<paultag> that came off bad. How much do you get done on a weekly basis *
<afterlastangel> as
<maco> paultag: well crimsun's a core dev and a regular ;-) and we've got another guy in the loco going for MOTU at the next meeting...
<paultag> maco, killer!
<itnet7> very cool!
<crimsun> I think our technical contributions to the distributions stand by themselves.
<jelkner> we are active in the USR project
<bcurtiswx> im learning Python to better patch and eventually go for MOTU
<jelkner> and the motu is packaging a lot of python stuff
<bcurtiswx> other than my Bug Traiging
<czajkowski> so how do you cater for the regular user and get them to become more active??
<kjcole> Some of us do a fair amount of collaboration, cross-pollination w/ OLPC
<jelkner> (the aspiring motu, that is)
<crimsun> czajkowski: several of us speak (have spoken) at various conferences and user group meetings.
<czajkowski> crimsun: oh nice idea
<maco> czajkowski: regular folks are always welcome to the bugjams if they'd like to learn.  one of the now-regular bug jammers, ted, just showed up one day to a jam for a "how to triage" lesson
<czajkowski> oh great good to hear
<maco> i think that was a Global Jam ago
<paultag> maco, do many people become "regulars" after that first bit of getting involved?
<itnet7> and have also given plenary sessions at UDS :-)
<czajkowski> so where do you see yourselves in the next 2 years?
<czajkowski> how do you plan to go forward
<kjcole> Retired on a beach.;-)
 * jelkner can answer that in a limited fashion, since he is specifically involved in the edu stuff
<czajkowski> jelkner: fire ahead :)
<maco> paultag: we dont get a whole lot of new folks showing up at events, but the only one i know of who showed up once and not again did so because she moved away for uni
<jelkner> we will continue to support and test the Ubuntu Sugar Remix project
<paultag> maco, outstanding.
<czajkowski> btw, nice layout of your roadmpa, very clear
<jelkner> we will work on getting TurtleArt and other Sugar software ported to gnome
<czajkowski> *roadmap
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the DC LoCo
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the DC LoCo.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jelkner> we will develop educational materials for teaching python on Ubuntu
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> jelkner: ssshh time ;-)
<czajkowski> +1
<itnet7> very cool jelkner
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> Congrats DC Loco
<czajkowski> keep up the good work
<huats> congrats
<itnet7> Very nice work DC!!
<kjcole> A lot of us have a jones for the education crowd, and if things go well with DC Public Library, I'm hoping to se opportunity there.
<paultag> great job DC loco. Keep up the great work kjcole
<crimsun> thanks, folks
<leogg> congrats!
<bcurtiswx> thanks all
<czajkowski> right we're going to keep going
<kjcole> Thanks.
<jelkner> thanks
<czajkowski> [topic]Denmark LoCo Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic: Denmark LoCo Re approval
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> Denmark ???
<sound-1000> \o
<czajkowski> who's here ?
<sbc> o/
<Snigepige> o/
<AJenbo> \o
<Kimsen1967> \o
<czajkowski> Aloha :)
<jarlen> o/
<jarlen> we made it :-)
<huats> hello dannemark
<sound-1000> hello world
<czajkowski> is Jesper here?
<jarlen> I'm Jesper
<czajkowski> jarlen: okie dokie.
<czajkowski> jarlen: can you tell us how you're loco is doing and how ye've done things since your approval
<czajkowski> please
<jarlen> Well, I've believe we're doing allright. About 2 years ago we formed an official organization in Denmark with a board.
<jarlen> This board is mostly for legal purposes, to be able to handle bank accounts and money, the team is mainly handled by a twice-monthly meeting
<czajkowski> jarlen: meetings on IRC?
<jarlen> Yes, IRC-meeting
<jarlen> s
<czajkowski> jarlen: are the minutes published publically for those who can't attend ?
<jarlen> Most day-to-day stuff is handled on a mailing lists though
<jarlen> Yes, we have logs and summaries of our meetings
<jarlen> and the schedule is usually handled about a week in advance, so people can try to prepare
<czajkowski> I see ont he roadmap you have a Lucid+1 Bootcamp  can you tell us some more about this ?
<kjoller> Just in time, I see :)
<itnet7> That did seem very intersting!
<kjoller> The Lucid+1 Bootcamp is a local mini version of UDS
<kjoller> (I've never been to UDS, so I can be mistaken)
<jarlen> Yes, well our main focus the past long time has been on real life events, mostly release parties, and attending larger events
<jarlen> the bootcamp is a new idea, which kjoller presented when we started planning Lucid release
<huats> very interesting indeed
<kjoller> The basic concept is to meet somewhere central in the country and make project-plans for the next 6 months
<jarlen> Where we'll try to get the team together for a community oriented event where we will try to summarize our release party, and start planning the next one
<leogg> jarlen: how do you elect the board members of the organization?
<czajkowski> oh neat idea, so a day to work on a roadmap face to face?
<jarlen> czajkowski: pretty much, yes
<kjoller> czajkowski: Excactly
<itnet7> nice Idea!
<huats> yep I think so
<bejames> Is there an existing wiki that we can use to capture all these great ideas that the LOCOs are mentioning?
<czajkowski> oh please do let us know how you get on with this
<czajkowski> it sounds like a great idea
<jarlen> leogg: we have a yearly meeting, announced about a month in advance, which focuses on the legal part of the team
<JanC> jarlen: taht's a legal requirement, I suppose?
<itnet7> bejames: another good idea!
<jarlen> JanC: it is indeed
<Pretto> bejames: that is a good idea too
<JanC> jarlen: and mostly a formality probably?
<leogg> bejames: +1 :)
<czajkowski> jarlen: might be an idea to mail the loco contact list and let them know about this kind of idea ?
<jarlen> JanC: well, yes, it's a legal issue, but we try to use it for pragmatic purposes as well
<czajkowski> other teams may be interested in hearing about it
<jarlen> by trying to get new people to take part in the new board, and the elections, thereby promoting participation frmo new people
<jarlen> czajkowski: indeed, we should do that when we get a bit better overview of what's gonna happen
<paultag> jarlen, Have you guys been working on translating Ubuntu at all?
<czajkowski> jarlen: sounds like a plan!
<czajkowski> any other comments from the team that you want to tell the council ?
<jarlen> paultag: Most open source translations into danish is handled by Dansk-gruppen (danish group), they have been doing a great job for a long time before Ubuntu even existed
<paultag> jarlen, are any LoCo members a part of that team?
<AJenbo> o/
<jarlen> so no, we havn't done much through the LoCo, but encouraged people to join dansk-gruppen, and a lot of our members do a great job there
<paultag> Cool
<huats> ok any developper ?
<jarlen> including AJenbo who also organized a translation jam for the last global jam, some weeks ago
<itnet7> Thanks AJenbo !
<jarlen> we have at least 1 MOTU, that I'm aware of
<paultag> aye, thanks AJenbo :)
<huats> ok great
<jarlen> and an #ubuntu IRC op, I believe
<huats> So you are active in many aspects
<huats> which is great
<czajkowski> ok so I think we're ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Denmark LoCo
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Denmark LoCo.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jarlen> and we've gotten a handfull of official Ubuntu members during the last couple of months
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jarlen> and we're still running our podcast :-)
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> congrats folks
<paultag> well done. Keep up the great work jarlen
<leogg> congrats dk!
<itnet7> Very nice work Congratulations!
 * jarlen bows
<paultag> AJenbo, keep hacking away. Great work with translations
<jarlen> thanks a lot :-)
<sound-1000> thanks
 * sbc cheers
<Snigepige> thnx
<czajkowski> [topic] Approval of North Carolina LoCo
<MootBot> New Topic:  Approval of North Carolina LoCo
<itnet7> Woohoo!!
<czajkowski> who's here from the NC Team
<akgraner> o/
<holstein> NC in the house.. w00t
 * czajkowski waits to be run over 
<czajkowski> :)
<_marx_> yo
<internalkernel> w00t w00t!!
 * paultag steps back
<_marx_> winston-salem here
<AJenbo> paultag, thanks :)
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<akgraner> hey
<AJenbo> paultag, hacking on linuxBios as we speek ^^
<akgraner> what do you want to know 1st from us? :-)
<holstein> hello czajkowski
<bac> \o
<czajkowski> ok so can akgraner please tell us a bit about the loco please
<czajkowski> how did ye start off ?
<akgraner> yeppers - it was started in 2007 by vivardi
<akgraner> we have the mailing list, forums Irc
<akgraner> FB, twitter, identi.ca and a new blog site as well
<akgraner> we have been growing slow but steady since then
<akgraner> now we are in 4 major areas of NC
<czajkowski> good to hear
<czajkowski> so you've been around 3 years, what made you decide to go now for approval ??
<akgraner> _marx_, can you add to that at all?
<akgraner> we are really active and would like to get the benefits afforded to approved teams
<akgraner> such as the CD packs, and when we are at conferences the conference materials
<_marx_> being one of those US states that takes 8 hours to drive across we have developed small teams across the state
<akgraner> in order to represent the community as an "official" team'
<czajkowski> akgraner: ok
<czajkowski> So how does the team organise events>?
<akgraner> we have many different approaches
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<akgraner> but basically - we decided what we want to do
<akgraner> then we pick a place
<akgraner> and a time
<leogg> akgraner: nice application :)
<akgraner> then we start inviting people
<akgraner> leogg, thanks :-)
<akgraner> teamwork :-)
<paultag> akgraner, So, what's some of the best events you have done in the last year - two years?
<holstein> IRC helps, #ubuntu-us-nc is usually pretty active
<akgraner> Global Jams, Helped with Southeast Linux Fest, Helped Plan and Staff Atlanta Linux Fest, Ubuntu Hours in Winston and Asheville, Team helping lead 2 LUG groups - WNCLUG and GCLUG group.  We've have members that have also helped with Ubuntu User Days, as well as Ubuntu Open Week.  We plan multiple release parties each cycyle as well.
<paultag> akgraner, I also met you at OLF, there were some NC guys and gals that came out my way IIRC
<akgraner> oh yeah we were at OLF too
<akgraner> :-)
<paultag> akgraner, :)
<afterlastangel> af
<paultag> akgraner, What's your plan moving forward if you get approved?
<akgraner> we want to maintain those things we have been doing
<internalkernel> keep promoting and converting... :)
<_marx_> improve on global jams
<akgraner> exactly
<leogg> akgraner: you're planning on getting involved in the US mentorship project? As of today, do you collaborate with other LoCo teams in the US or abroad?
<akgraner> also helping more in the greater ubuntu community
<JFo> yep
<akgraner> getting more people involved with ubuntu projects across the board
<JFo> like giving talks all over the place :)
<akgraner> leogg, yes - CA, and FL ad well as GA
<huats> This is something that I really enjoy in US LoCo is the inter loco actions :)
<leogg> akgraner: nice! :)
<akgraner> abroad - I helped the Israel team learn mootbot-uk
<huats> so keep doing that
<akgraner> we are also looking at ways to get Ubuntu to the military bases
<akgraner> slow process but in time
<czajkowski> akgraner: _marx_ what have ye found difficult to do and how have you overcome this??
<paultag> Ah! Never even thought of that. Interesting akgraner, how has that been working?
<_marx_> czajkowski: building a more involved membership i think has been the most difficult
<internalkernel> I'd have to second that _marx_
<akgraner> paultag, slow as you have to get someone to let you promote it at various meetings on post  - so it is two fold - create a demand through the free stuff, and then also help promote the GSA schedule stuff
<_marx_> we have more facebook members that launchpad members
<paultag> akgraner, :)
<akgraner> yes the mailing list is not as active as it could be...I think we need to pay more attention to the care and feeding of the forums
<internalkernel> and having several areas that are very active which are not very local to each other...
<czajkowski> _marx_: and how have you delt with that ?
<akgraner> however there is a core group of people who meet almost daily in irc and we come up with ways to cope and new ideas to try an pitch to the teams
<_marx_> by trying to find new users and tickle the brains of existing users / members
<itnet7> :-)
<internalkernel> and that has reflected in our the increase in involvement
<paultag> akgraner, What's been the biggest issue you guys and gals have faced WRT starting and maintaining the LoCo
<JFo> having such a large state :)
<akgraner> biggest issue - to me was figuring out how to divide and conquer so to say
<paultag> JFo, Heard that! I'm over in Ohio :)
<paultag> akgraner, interesting, do you mind going into that a bit more?
<_marx_> we started slowly due to a lack of push from the founder
<JFo> we tend to drive a lot :)
<JFo> paultag, :)
<czajkowski> akgraner: are there any issues your team has encountered and how have you handled them?
<_marx_> i started pushing in late 08 early 09
<akgraner> so the team has naturally divided into 4 areas - then we have those natural leaders that arise in those areas
<paultag> akgraner, has the collaboration been stable and sustained?
<akgraner> and from their we coordinate or efforts
 * bejames afk - taking the kids to school :(
<akgraner> yes since early 2009  - things have been gaining momentum and flowing nicely
<paultag> Outstanding
<holstein> the lines of communication are always open
<akgraner> _marx_, holstein, bac JFo internalkernel anything to add?
<internalkernel> we rock...
 * holstein just happy to be here :)
<_marx_> irc regulars are much of the core group
<akgraner> we also hold 2 meetings per month
<akgraner> which helps
<JFo> we do indeed rock :-)
<_marx_> instituted two ubuntu hours in the state
<internalkernel> we host the WNClug meeting first Saturday in ASheville every month...
<akgraner> using mootbot-uk helps get the logs out faster and in an organized manner
<czajkowski> _marx_: I was there when you go the channel logged, has this helped getting folks who don't use irc interested, do you have many people on IRC who have ops??
<holstein> yup, the WNCLUG is all about ubuntu
<bac> akgraner:  did you mention our release parties?  we've had one or two for the last three releases i believe.
<_marx_> czajkowski: 3 ops
<holstein> lucid release party next meeting
<huats> Had you faced some conflicts ? and how did you handle them ?
<holstein> in asheville
<akgraner> bac, yep mentioned them
<czajkowski> ok so I think we're ready to vote guys
<huats> czajkowski, I asked a question :)
<huats> Have you faced some conflicts ? and how did you handle them ?
<czajkowski> huats: sorry thought bac answered that
<akgraner> huats, yes - I think early on  - my enthusiasm for community was overwhelming at times
<_marx_> huats: none we haven't been able to resolve amickably
<czajkowski> just a tad :)
<itnet7> no, not you akgraner !
<huats> czajkowski, sorry I haven't seen the answer... damn chocolate which is not at the same level than the computer :)
<itnet7> ;-P
<JFo> lol
<akgraner> and this caused some  - moments of hold up...wait.. what..
<JFo> hee hee
<czajkowski> _marx_: can you elaborate please?
<_marx_> well private messages, and emails, how are you?
<huats> akgraner, enthusiams is more than needed and you have plenty so that is great :)
<JFo> I was very involved for a while, but my current position has pulled me away a bit. I was glad to see internalkernel and holstein step up both before I pulled away and have continued to increase their involvement since.
<_marx_> yeah, i know emacs sux etc...
<czajkowski> good stuff
<huats> great, thanks for the answer then
<holstein> JFo: :)
<JFo> :)
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Approval of the North Carolina Team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Approval of the North Carolina Team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> +1
<paultag> +1
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<czajkowski> kinda  ano brainer really :)
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<paultag> Outstanding work akgraner, and I saw that you got the Fridge editor spot. Be sure to get something about this up there :)
<czajkowski> congrats North Carolina!
<leogg> great job guys!
<paultag> Great job NC!
<internalkernel> w00t!
<bac> \o/
<akgraner> I will :-)  Thanks everyone
<itnet7> Congratulations akgraner and Team, Y'all have worked real hard!! Good Job!
<JFo> thanks :)
<huats> Keep doing good stuffs !
<internalkernel> thanks everyone!
 * _marx_ goes to dance under the maple trees
<holstein> thanks
<internalkernel> maple trees?
<akgraner> huats, we will do our best!
<czajkowski> [topic]Brazilian Team Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic: Brazilian Team Re approval
<Andre_Gondim> \o/
<Pretto> \O/
<leogg> olÃ¡! :p
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<Pretto> can we start?
<Pretto> :D
<paultag> you may Pretto, give us the run-down :)
<Pretto> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<Pretto> well, we still doing our best here in Brazil,  I proundly say that we are the 3Âº most active team in translation
<Pretto> we started promoting jams on irc to translation and documentation
<Pretto> next 27Âº we will make a wiki takeover for lucid
<Pretto> ubuntu-br are always invited to participate in community events and even business events
<czajkowski> on your reapproal page you don't really tell us about events you've been doing since you've been approved
<Pretto> we have a vey active irc support
<Pretto> very*
<Andre_Gondim> =]
<Pretto> czajkowski: that can be viewed here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-br
<czajkowski> Pretto: Andre_Gondim can you tell us what you've been doing since you've been approved please?
<Pretto> czajkowski: since approved we were been on the greatest events heree
<Andre_Gondim> We invited and promoved the regional mail lists to do some events, like that the Pretto reported
<Pretto> czajkowski: Like FISL and Latinoware
<czajkowski> Pretto: on the LD those are events in the future
<czajkowski> what have you done in the past
<Pretto> czajkowski: told ya about that two ones, and always present at Installfests
<leogg> Pretto: do you collaborate upstream with translations?
<Andre_Gondim> last year I spoker with the team in to events
<huats> Pretto, how are you dealing with such a big country ? you mention many teams is there a collaboration ?
<Andre_Gondim> leogg, yes, specially with gnome and kde
<Andre_Gondim> czajkowski, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations you can see our participation here
<Pretto> leogg: not recently, as council member and developer i am most active on mailing list and irc
<leogg> Andre_Gondim: great :)
<paultag> Pretto, How are the BZ Forums?
<Andre_Gondim> leogg, ow, and Pidgin too
<Pretto> paultag: our forum numbers 355.314 Mensages and 61.133 Topics by 46.751 Users in http://ubuntuforum-br.org/
<paultag> Pretto, FYI the link on the wiki is broken ( http://forum.ubuntu-br.org/ )
<paultag> Pretto, the application *
<Pretto> paultag: that is why we will have a wiki takeover next week
<paultag> OK
<itnet7> Pretto: Does your team participate in Ubuntu Hours, or any other re-occuring face to face team events?
<Pretto> itnet7: not really, our subteams does that, like ubuntu-br-sp
<huats> Pretto, So it is realted to my previous question : how are you dealing with such a big country ? you mention many teams is there a collaboration ?
<czajkowski> Pretto: Andre_Gondim ok we're not going to vote
<Pretto> huats: we are trying to keep subteams in contact, those events alway tries to get one member for a subteam to attend at another event
<czajkowski> but we'd like to make a suggestion
<czajkowski> you application is lacking details and we'd like to see more information on this and then come back
 * kwah wondering what other details are needed 
<kwah> czajkowski, may you be more specific? if I may ask
<czajkowski> kwah: sure, is this your team ?
<Pretto> czajkowski: ok, I will fill all information needed there for the next time, I thougt that additional information could be said here
<paultag> kwah, a list of events that the team has had a presence at, or run would be a great start
<kwah> czajkowski, nope, but we may face the same questions
<kwah> Russian
<czajkowski> kwah: you can see by the previous teams we've gone through tonight, they've laid out very easily to read all the events they've run
<czajkowski> linked to posts
<czajkowski> had photos
<czajkowski> it's not a vote on their approval more we'd like to see more detail and then come back
<kwah> pt_BR + google translate would suffice?
<kwah> I think that the guys also having problems with a lack of manpower to translate everything back and forth
<itnet7> kwah: They are doing an outstanding job
<itnet7> but, they need to fine tune a bit is all
<kwah> itnet7, thats why I have asked
<itnet7> We look for well rounded teams for re-approval
<czajkowski> [action] Brazil LoCo to add more detail to their application and come back to us
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Brazil LoCo to add more detail to their application and come back to us
<itnet7> and it doesn't appear that there has been much public activity and advocacy since last year
<itnet7> at least to us based on their current wiki
<paultag> OK, ;et
<itnet7> re-approval wiki that is
<paultag> OK, Let's move on
<czajkowski> now ther are 4 teams left
<kwah> Pretto, nice job! good luck next time
<afterlastangel> and no time left?
<Pretto> czajkowski: thak you, I can see that we missed the Experience point
<itnet7> Thanks Pretto !
<juliux> donÂ´t say now time;)
<paultag> thank you Pretto, we look forward to reviewing you again
<czajkowski> Pretto: thanks for understanding
<Pretto> kwah: thank you
<huats> juliux, who said no time ?
<huats> :)
<czajkowski> we've 2 options, either keep going but folks may have to go or we can meet up next week at the same time ?
<kwah> ÑÐ¾ÑÐ¾Ð³ÑÐ°ÑÐ¸Ð¹ Ð¸Ð¼ Ð¼Ð°Ð»Ð¾
<Pretto> czajkowski: next meeting is ok?
<czajkowski> Pretto: sure
<itnet7> I can continue on
<paultag> I can continue
<kwah> pardon...
<juliux> czajkowski: the german team is still here;)
<_Lux> Yes and we like to go on ...
 * kamusin Chilean Team is still here too :)
<v4vortex> indeed it is!
<Jiraiya> and still awake *drinking coffee*
<kwah> Russian o/
<czajkowski> right
<afterlastangel> :-s
 * _Lux thinks it is too late to give up ;-)
<renewip> dear folks, please continue, we've been waiting for 2hours+
<juliux> _Lux: +1
<stk_> We are still waiiting
<kwah> +1
<stk_> we are from Vietnam
<afterlastangel> ;)
<czajkowski> [topic] VietnameseTeam
<MootBot> New Topic:  VietnameseTeam
<itnet7> Nice!!
<afterlastangel> >:)
<renewip> \m/
<khanhpt_> \*
<afterlastangel> I'm here
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VietnameseTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VietnameseTeam/ApprovalApplication
<nobawk> */
<CoconutCrab> */
<czajkowski> ok folks
<afterlastangel> So
<tuantub> */
<baongoc124> *\
<stk_> */
<anyoneofus> */
<afterlastangel> what do you want to know about us?
<czajkowski> well you're new, so tell us how you formed and what you do
<afterlastangel> Ok
<juliux> perhaps we can proceed a little bit fasterâ¦
<afterlastangel> We's started from 2007, in tuxfarmily
<afterlastangel> ok
<afterlastangel> It the past, we just meet in the forum to discuss about ubuntu and help each other
<afterlastangel> but don't had many plan to do
<czajkowski> juliux: going as fast as I can, been here just as long :)
<afterlastangel> Ok
<czajkowski> afterlastangel: so how do you organise things?
<czajkowski> you've been active in 2009
<afterlastangel> because we are young and have few experience
<afterlastangel> czajkowski: yes
<afterlastangel> just from this time
<afterlastangel> we have some team to work
<afterlastangel> khanhpt_: lead the localization team,
<afterlastangel> nobawk: for the IRC
<afterlastangel> and me for the forum
<leogg> afterlastangel: can you tell a bit more on your project with the schools?
<afterlastangel> event outside the Internet's held by some active members
<afterlastangel> Ok
<czajkowski> so 3 of you out of 118 members in launchpad and 11475
<afterlastangel> no
<CoconutCrab> excuse us
<czajkowski> take your time
<CoconutCrab> please let me answer in place of him
<czajkowski> ok
<afterlastangel> I think most of them hear about Ubuntu in Viet Nam and come to us for more information about ubuntu
<CoconutCrab> it is 5 PM here in Viet Nam and we have been waited for awhile so he might not be in the best condition
<CoconutCrab> afterlastangel, is  that okay with you?
<stk_> sed s/5 PM/5 AM/
<afterlastangel> so 3 of you out of 118 members in launchpad and 11475
<CoconutCrab> so let me begin from the start, I will make it quick
<czajkowski> wow 5am
<Vantrax> wow 5 am, thats some dedication
<CoconutCrab> we have been around for quite a while, since 2005
<Vantrax> well done guys for holding on
<czajkowski> well done and thank you very much for being patient and staying we appreciate it
<CoconutCrab> first we were are small community composed of hobby-ist
<CoconutCrab> and most of us are very young, I believe more than 95% are still in college or high school
<CoconutCrab> so our organizing method is a little bit different
<CoconutCrab> while there are some members dedicated to some tasks
<czajkowski> CoconutCrab: how have you delt with this? what have you done to get interest
<CoconutCrab> czajkowski, you mean deal with the fact that we are still young ?
<itnet7> afterlastangel: What is your roadmap, do you see the team getting more involved in Conferences, and events?
<czajkowski> CoconutCrab: yes and getting people to do things?
<renewip> we organise seminars in schools/campus since most of us are students, besides, we have online support, IRC forums, mailing list
<CoconutCrab> czajkowski, we mostly communicate via forum and IRC
<czajkowski> ok
<CoconutCrab> when we need something done, we asked everyone on the forum
<czajkowski> I dont see any mention of IRC meetings, do you have any ?
<CoconutCrab> and we have the advantage of being young, everyone is always eager to join
<CoconutCrab> so it is really easy to get interest
<CoconutCrab> in term of meetings, we often do it informally
<CoconutCrab> because as a community, we are really close to each other
<CoconutCrab> so communication can be done via phone, or face to face meeting
<CoconutCrab> still, when there is important task that need to be done
<CoconutCrab> like the preparation for this appoval process, we hold a meeting for it
<czajkowski> have you had any issues?
<CoconutCrab> czajkowski, yes, we have some
<CoconutCrab> for example, being young has its advantages
<CoconutCrab> but also have some bad sides too
<czajkowski> such as? how have you dealt with them
<CoconutCrab> like in the examination season, there aren't many people active
<czajkowski> ok
<CoconutCrab> because most of us are busy with the exams :P
<JanC> CoconutCrab: it might be good to also attract some older people in the future
<huats> CoconutCrab do you have in your team any Ubuntu Member or Developpers that are more involved in some aspect of the worldwide Ubuntu community  ?
<CoconutCrab> but after 5 years, some of us already graduated so it isn't too serious these days
<CoconutCrab> JanC, I understand
<afterlastangel> Let's me explain our plan for school
<CoconutCrab> huats, we are still trying to get more involved witht he international community
<CoconutCrab> but for now, we have some members that are debian developers, the upstream of Ubuntu
<leogg> CoconutCrab: do you the language issue has been a barrier for you?
<afterlastangel> leogg: I think so
<CoconutCrab> like Le Quoc Tuan, he has just become a debian developer recently
<paultag_> CoconutCrab, Oh interesting. Have they worked with the MOTU at all?
<CoconutCrab> to be honest, quite some of us are quite good at understanding english, the majority of us don't
<CoconutCrab> that is why we are very active in localizing Ubuntu for Vietnamese people
<leogg> afterlastangel, CoconutCrab, :)
<afterlastangel> leogg: And we the the the language barrier can be break by translation and help from ubuntu-vn community
<leogg> afterlastangel: that's right!
<CoconutCrab> as you can see, in the last years, we were involved in some translation projects like MOST
<afterlastangel> Let's I explain the eudcation's plans
<CoconutCrab> which was funded by the governement
<CoconutCrab> afterlastangel, please wait
<CoconutCrab> one last answer
<CoconutCrab> for paultag
<paultag_> :)
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the Approval of the Vietnamese Team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the Approval of the Vietnamese Team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag_> one sec czajkowski
<paultag_> go ahead CoconutCrab
<CoconutCrab> paultag, we still have many thing to learn, and we are eager to get involved with MOTU in the future
<CoconutCrab> for now, sadly, I can say we haven't done much with MOTU
<CoconutCrab> one reason for that is we are still have to learn
<CoconutCrab> in the college, high school*
<afterlastangel> as the loco team we have many chances to learn from other community around the world
<afterlastangel> And know that we're not alone
<leogg> CoconutCrab: and the collaboration with the Debian folks will sure help :)
<CoconutCrab> and so our schedule isn't stable enough to dedicate to such important tasks like maintain packages
<CoconutCrab> leogg, sure :)
<CoconutCrab> if you have any other questions, please ask
<renewip> we really want to join the Ubuntu world to learn more experience/knowledge and everything from teams over the world
<JanC> if you have a debian developer, he certainly can help with ubuntu packages too (and does so by default, as we pull their packages)
<paultag_> JanC, totally
<huats> CoconutCrab we might talk later about collaboration with the motu mentoring team
<JanC> maybe he can also teach soem more of you  âº
<huats> (since I am part of it)
<CoconutCrab> huats, gladly :)
<CoconutCrab> oh, one more reason for that
<renewip> JanC: we actually have some un-official developers who program and package their own DEBs
<huats> CoconutCrab please contact me in a few days since we are working on redefinig the process....
<huats> and Pretto too :)
<czajkowski> ok we're ready to vite
<czajkowski> *vote
<CoconutCrab> okay
<CoconutCrab> huats, yes, I will ask the one who is in charge of developing in our community
<leogg> I'm happy to give +1
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> we +1
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Claudinux> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Claudinux. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<paultag> Claudinux, council members only, please :)
<Claudinux> paultag, sorry :)
<CoconutCrab> :)
<afterlastangel> Thank you
<itnet7> I have to explain something thought about the vote we just did afterlastangel
<afterlastangel> Ok
<czajkowski> itnet7: you need to vote
<czajkowski> or are we missing one
<itnet7> The LoCo Council really likes what we see and feels that you are off to a great start
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<itnet7> Sorry
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> final vote was 4
<itnet7> We would like for you to continue to work on Advocacy and irc-meetings that are published for others to learn more about your team and it's activities
<itnet7> in 90 days we would like to get and update from you on your progress
<CoconutCrab> I understand
<czajkowski> ok so moving on
<czajkowski> [topic]Russian Team Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic: Russian Team Re approval
<afterlastangel> We could disscuss more in the mailling list, now time for other team, good luck
<itnet7> I will contact you more offline
<kwah> o/
<kwah> here
<stk_> thank you very much, you all
<vadimkansk> o|-<
<aim1159> o/
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam
<itnet7> Hey there kwah !
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam
<madkox> o/
<Agafonov> o/
<A4Tech> o/
<CoconutCrab> thank you :)
<leogg> great job vietnam!
<paultag> thank you CoconutCrab :)
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<paultag> Howdy kwah
<kwah> I heard there were complains about big countries...
<huats> no complains, questions :)
<CoconutCrab> so I will leave it to Russian team, guess it is time for us to get some sleep
<CoconutCrab> thank you again
<kwah> By the way, I raised the question to our contact who invited us and never heard back
<paultag> thank you for staying up late CoconutCrab
<kwah> in this respect
<kwah> Russia is big. Russians are everywhere.
<aim1159> just to remember for all the audience - our team not the country, but language-based
<kwah> Therefore our team focuses on Russian speaking community wold-wide
<vadimkansk> :)
<czajkowski> ok so can you tell us a little about your structure and how you do things
<czajkowski> organise events and your team?
<huats> kwah, oh. I don't know why but I haven't seen your question (and I well received your email) my fault sorry
<Agafonov> huats: I've emailed one too
<Agafonov> * once
<kwah> So, the main idea is information: consolidation of information about all aspects
<kwah> And spread it by all possible means
<kwah> From web-site forum IRC to participation in local events
<paultag> kwah, what have been some of your more notable events in the last two years?
<Agafonov> Structure may be seen here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ru/+members
<huats> Agafonov they were both in the same email thread that was unread :( I don't know why :( (I have experienced email issue lately is it the cause...) once again I am sorry
<Agafonov> huats: np, we are ready
<czajkowski> ok so have you had any issues with getting things done ?
<kwah> For example, participation of various local teams in the last Software Freedom
<Agafonov> paultag: we were approved one year ago
<kwah> Day
<paultag> Agafonov, Sorry :) , what have been your more notable events since your approval?
<kwah> czajkowski, yes, who does not
<kwah> but we try to do what we can
<czajkowski> kwah: how have you dealt with them?
<kwah> mainly leading by example
<kwah> communicating what needs to be done etc
<czajkowski> ok
<kwah> e.g. IdeaPool, Tasks at our wiki
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> so what do you plan to do in the next 2 years?
<Agafonov> czajkowski: one big problem was - unabe to get 9.10 CDs due to import laws
<kwah> What we have been doing
<paultag> Agafonov, How did you deal with that issue?
<kwah> One of the biggest points of attention - to get more people involved
<Agafonov> paultag: we cannot rewrite laws
<Agafonov> we ordered shipit small packs
<paultag> Ah
<kwah> Therefore all possible means of transparent presentation what is going on in the team and around it
<paultag> Agafonov, Did you end up burning CDs for large events?
<Agafonov> paultag: sure
<kwah> paultag, for disk exchange  we have special forum topics
<kwah> where everyone can offer their help or request it
<kwah> if in need
<paultag> kwah, I'd love to hear more about how you worked around this issue, it might be useful to other LoCos with the same situation
<_Lux> paultag: Could you take that offline?
<paultag> _Lux, Yes, good idea.
<aim1159> paultag: guess no other loco's (outside Russia) have russian customs burocracy machine ;)
<kwah> paultag, we ll work on it again
<Agafonov> paultag: no, we end up with CD get back to shiping company
<czajkowski> ok i think we're ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Russian LoCo
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Russian LoCo.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<leogg> +1
<itnet7> Very good job!
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<kwah> Thanks everyone
<paultag> Well done, thank you kwah
<Agafonov> \o/
<czajkowski> ok well done and btw nice application very easy to read and navigate
<A4Tech> :)
<aim1159> hurrraaaaay! :)
<czajkowski> always helps
<madkox> =)
<leogg> thank you kwah Agafonov
<kwah> czajkowski, team work
<huats> congrats
<skyrider> Thanks everyone
<czajkowski> is there anyone here from the Chilli Loco
<cristianvirtual> o/
<DobleD> \O/
<czajkowski> *Chilean
<pedro_> yeah _o/!
<Vantrax> lol
<czajkowski> right
<huats> pedro_, \o/
<czajkowski> [topic]Chilean LoCo re approval
<MootBot> New Topic: Chilean LoCo re approval
 * pedro_ hugs huats
<cristianvirtual> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChileanTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChileanTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChileanTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> Thanks for coming guys
<czajkowski> I know it's been a hard few months for ye so well done
<huats> First of all I'd like to thank you for being here, and to agreed to be reapproved even with the hard times you had
<cristianvirtual> thanks
<cristianvirtual> Our team is very active we are one of the most biggest Linux communities in Chile, we are always invited to different kinds of events, but due to the natural disaster (Earthquake and Tsunami) that affected us during February our LoCo team has not been so active as before, but we're working even harder than before to revitalize it and to make our LoCo team a rocking one again.
<czajkowski> nice wiki page, so clear and easy to read
<czajkowski> cristianvirtual: you are doing an amazing job
<Pretto> congratulations kwah
<cristianvirtual> czajkowski: not just me, all our team
<huats> cristianvirtual, that was directed to the team I think :)
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> so can you tell me how you guys do things please?
<czajkowski> how are you organised ?
<cristianvirtual> We are organized in diferent teams: Web, Forums, marketing and council.
<cristianvirtual> We have regular meetings once a month by IRC with the community and also a few days before this meeting, our council had  a meeting.
<czajkowski> how do you get peope to become active and take on roles in those areas?
<cristianvirtual> ur team is divided in small teams every single of team responsible for a part of the things we're doing for example, we have one for the website dedicated to only that
<czajkowski> *nods*
<cristianvirtual> so, every leader of the group have a mentor proccess for new member of the team
<czajkowski> oh nice idea
<czajkowski> so you teach new people so they learn
<huats> pedro_, do you run session focussed on the bug triagging  ?
<czajkowski> I like that idea
<huats> czajkowski, I like it too
<cristianvirtual> so if you're a new person we ask you to decide in which part of the team you'd like to work
<pedro_> huats: yeah we do that every once in a while and specially for the bug jams
<pedro_> huats: in the past we organized bug jams once per month and we gave classes about triaging
<pedro_> but due to the earthquake we slowed down a little bit on that
<czajkowski> of course that's understandable
<pedro_> as cristianvirtual said we're working to try to bring those kind of events to live again
<czajkowski> I think your team is doign a great job
<pedro_> it's being hard though
<huats> pedro_, great
<itnet7> definitely
<leogg> awesome job
<huats> I really like to see very very experience people like you, giving sessions... it helps a lot really
<pedro_> I guess czajkowski was asking about problems on the teams and all that, we had the same issue that the Russian folks with the CD taxes
<czajkowski> ok
<pedro_> what we did was ask to every person on the team to give a little of money to pay those
<pedro_> and for future activies we're just asking for a small set of originals CDS
<pedro_> and burning the rest
<huats> pedro_, I have told cristianvirtual to talk to maria for that
<pedro_> it's cheaper for us that way
<cristianvirtual> huats: done! ;)
<huats> :)
<pedro_> and recently maria (from canonica) gave us a great news about that too
<czajkowski> ok so I think we're ready to vote
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the Chilean LoCo Re approval
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the Chilean LoCo Re approval.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<leogg> +1
<huats> pedro_,  great then !
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<czajkowski> amazing team
<czajkowski> well done
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pedro_> huats: yeah !
<huats> congrats !
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<paultag> Well done guys
<cristianvirtual> yeah!
<czajkowski> whoo congrats folks
<huats> keep doing that
<leogg> excelente trabajo, Chile!
<itnet7> Very Good Job!! You all have worked so hard!!
<pedro_> thanks a lot friends!
 * pedro_ hugs you all
<cristianvirtual> :D
<czajkowski> [topic] German LoCo re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  German LoCo re approval
<paultag> Hallo Deutschland! Wie geht es euch?
<juliux> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2010
<czajkowski> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2010
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication2010
<_Lux> paultag: Gut, danke
<juliux> \o/
<v4vortex> \o
<_Lux> o/
<Jiraiya> kann mich nicht beklagen :)
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> aloha folks
<Jiraiya> o/
<huats> hey there my friend juliux
<juliux> The German Ubuntu LoCo Team does a lot of Ubuntu related work in different areas. We started in 2004 with mailinglists, forum, IRC. Since this time all platforms for user support grow steadily. Since 2005 we have a legal entity called ubuntu Deutschland e.V. (German Ubuntu association)  for all legal effects and financial issues
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-21
<michazoet> \o/
<_Lux> Good Morning czajkowski
<juliux>  The assocation is the supporting institute for the German Ubuntu Communities. Since 2006 we are doing a lot of conference appearances and release parties. Starting 2007 we have our yearly Ubuntu conference called Ubucon
<juliux>  At the moment we are busy to improve the integration of all parts of the team especially to integrate the Ubuntu developer. But this is a long time goal;)
<juliux> And sorry for the late wiki pages changes.
<czajkowski> I think juliux is rather prepared :(
<czajkowski> :)
<juliux> ;)
<juliux> czajkowski: ;)
 * _Lux and Julius prepared the text ;-)
<paultag> juliux, it's OK, I'm actually on the -de mailing list, so it's no problem :)
<czajkowski> so tell us how you organise folks into doing things
<juliux> btw i think that was the fast reapproval ever;) only one week preparation
<juliux> paultag: cool
<_Lux> czajkowski: What exactly do you want to know?
<_Lux> Unfortunately we are a very splitted team, working on different aspects of Communiy
<_Lux> One of our main tasks is to integrate all back into one big team
<czajkowski> yes how do you orgnise that
<juliux> in the past we used mailinglists for that and face to face discussions
<_Lux> We have a central mailing list for LoCo-Activities which we use to coordinate
<_Lux> Last week we started an IRC round table
<v4vortex> yes, and it was a good start!
<Jiraiya> indeed
<itnet7> _Lux: How many people attend your Ubucon's?
<_Lux> itnet7: 150-200 (correct juliux?)
<itnet7> Very nice turnouts!
<_Lux> itnet7: They are coming from all over Germany and Switzerland and Austria
<huats> and may be France next time :)
<_Lux> We are in Germany not so big in size but big in terms of people
<paultag> juliux, _Lux, how have the translation efforts from within the LoCo been going for German?
<czajkowski> yes I've seen your jams they are rather impressive
<juliux> itnet7: in 2008 we had 200 in 2009 300
<itnet7> That is really great!
<juliux> paultag: the translation team is more working for upstream translations
<czajkowski> Have you faced any issues??
<juliux> paultag: most of them are translation for gnome and kde
<juliux> czajkowski: yes;) splitting a locoteam into to parts kubuntu and ubuntu
<paultag> juliux, Outstanding. I caught a glimpse of that about a year ago when I had a small change for Evolution :)
<\Lux> paultag: We have a very active translation team whcih has an onw forum in our officical forum
<paultag> \Lux, would you mind posting those links?
<czajkowski> juliux: how did ye go about solving that issue ?
<\Lux> mompls
<juliux> czajkowski: but that happens allreay in 2005/2006
<juliux> czajkowski: the solutions  that we have to locoteams so we are only covering *buntu but not kubutnu
<\Lux> paultag: Here it is: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/forum/lokalisierung/
<paultag> thank you \Lux :)
<juliux> czajkowski: they are doing there own thing but there are some contact points at fairs or at the ubucon
<czajkowski> ok
<\Lux> paultag: welcome
<czajkowski> sound sgood
<czajkowski> are there any other comments you'd like to make to the council
<juliux> paultag: the cfp is still open;)
<czajkowski> itnet7: leogg huats paultag any other comments
<huats> juliux, please correct the team contact, since it was still smurf on the wiki page (may be you have already changed that)
<paultag> I'm all set, thank you czajkowski :)
<juliux> huats: _Lux and i will take that over
<paultag> juliux, my German is that of a three year old ;)
<huats> otherwise please  continue that way !
<itnet7> Not really, I am very impressed with their team!
<paultag> juliux, but I'd love to watch :)
<\Lux> paultag: like my English
<paultag> \Lux, :)
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the German LoCo Re approval
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the German LoCo Re approval.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<czajkowski> whoooo
<itnet7> Very cool!!!
<paultag> Really outstanding work \Lux, juliux. Keep up the great work
<czajkowski> very nice
<czajkowski> well done
<juliux> \o/
<juliux> thank you very much
<huats> congrats german team !
<\Lux> thanks a lot \o/
<itnet7> \o/ juliux and team!
<czajkowski> 9 LoCo teams re approved and 2 new teams approved tonight!
<Jiraiya> thank you guys :)
<juliux> sleep well!
<v4vortex> yes, thanks a lot
<czajkowski> [endmeeting]
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:10.
<czajkowski> grrrrrr
<czajkowski> bot!
<v4vortex> yeah, and sleep well (its 01am here)
<v4vortex> :)
<leogg> thanks everybody
<juliux> cu
<Jiraiya> and have a good night, all of you
<czajkowski> nn folks
<\Lux> Good night, I have to get up at 5:00 hrs
<paultag> Thanks everyone, good night / morning :)
<paultag> \Lux, Gute nacht, schlaft gut ;)
<\Lux> paultag: you too :-))
<zul> gday
<mjeanson> hi
<kirkland> [o]
<ttx> ]o[
<mathiaz> \u\
<Daviey> \o
<jmdault> o/
<jjohansen> o]
<ttx> ok, let's get started !
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<ttx> Welcome to the Ubuntu Server team meeting !
<zul> wheee
<ttx> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Scribe is: zul !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * mathiaz to fix the "server fixed bugs" broken script
<smoser> \o
<mathiaz> ttx: still on my TODO
<ttx> ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state : DONE
<ttx> * mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
<mathiaz> ttx: that has been done
<mathiaz> ScottK: ^^
<zul> and the fix has been uploaded
<mathiaz> zul: great thanks
<ttx> mathiaz: without a strong consensus, I see
<mathiaz> ttx: about the fix or the removal?
<mathiaz> ttx: I'm fine with the fix
<ttx> abouit the removal :)
<mathiaz> ttx: as long as the use of dovecot-postfix.conf has been discarded
<ttx> mathiaz: does that prove the need for a UDS session on taht subject, to set expectations for the Maverick cycle ?
<mathiaz> ttx: not specifically
<mathiaz> ttx: there may be a more generic what to do with the mail server though
<ttx> mathiaz: yes
<ttx> [TOPIC] Lucid release status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lucid release status
<ttx> So the RC is in the oven, should be released tomorrow
<ttx> Today's focus is on ISO testing coverage
<ttx> We don't expect a server ISO/images respin, so please test the heck out of them
 * kirkland is on it
<ttx> Don't forget to register your test results... and mark the tests you started as "started" for coordination
<ttx> On the remaining RC bugs side... I assigned most of them to the team, at the very least you should look into them and comment whether they can and should be fixed by release day, or as a post-release SRU
<ttx> the watch list is updated at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> that's the team main focus for after-RC
<ttx> Finally, you have some remaining work items in specs
<ttx> See http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04.html
<ttx> Most of them are about UEC testing/validation so we should be ok, but don't forget those :)
 * hggdh kicks evolution and its 1G  resident memory
<ttx> Questions on release management, priorities for the next week, etc. ?
<zul> nyet
<hggdh> pas
<ttx> About post-RC fix vs. early SRU: it's mostly the release team decision based on the impact of the proposed patch vs. how impacting is the bug.
<ttx> but you should be able to make an educated guess :)
<ttx> ok, moving on to:
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: how is it going in QA land ?
<hggdh> life is not as good as I expected ;-)
<kirkland> ttx: hggdh has been doing a heck of a job testing UEC
<kirkland> ttx: shaking out some hard issue
<hggdh> we are still going along, though. All of you have been extremely helpful on my bugs
<hggdh> er. not *mine*, I mean
<ttx> yes, we still have a stream of issues in UEC stresstesting and cloud images boot
<hggdh> yes. Right now it seems the more we poke, the more bugs fall
<ttx> kirkland, smoser: I kept you out of the other server bugs so that you can concentrate on those
<kirkland> hggdh: that's our job ;-)
<ttx> hggdh: you seem to have the Gift !
<hggdh> mathiaz scripts have helped a lot, BTW
<kirkland> ttx: thanks, much appreciated, we're actively working those
<hggdh> ttx: right now, this is pretty much what I can tell you... sorry
<ttx> hggdh: the regression build rig seems to have triggered a few recent messages
<ttx> hggdh: do you plan to have a maverick spec to cover what we should do now with this ?
<hggdh> hum. I have not looked at my emails today, but I do not remember any from yesterday (except atlas, but this is not aq worry)
<ttx> hggdh: they were from this morning.
<hggdh> ttx: you mean the regression rig? Yes, I do have some ideas. We should keep it, and expand it
<ttx> hggdh: planning a UDS session / blueprint on the subject ?
<kirkland> hggdh: ttx: i suggest some "barriers", that would allow a topo to deploy with one button
<kirkland> hggdh: ttx: rather than triggering each system individually
<hggdh> I am going to put it in the QA pool of ideas, and someone will decide on it
<kirkland> hggdh: ttx: possibly as simple as an early command that sleeps/waits until its dependendent systems are installed
<ttx> kirkland: I was talking about the build regression rig, the thing that rebuilds a set of package daily
<hggdh> kirkland: yeah, something like that. I would also like to have at least one more rig
<ttx> and mails out tons of errors :)
<ttx> ah, plenty of interesting discussions coming up in Brussels.. volcano smoke allowing.
<hggdh> heh
<ttx> Other questions for QA team ?
<hggdh> everybody says smoke is bad to our health
<hggdh> no, we are good
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> hggdh: thanks !
<ttx> jjohansen: o/
<hggdh> ttx: just an aside -- we should talk, when possible, on the autonmated server tests
<jjohansen> hey
<jjohansen> so not much has changed on the kernel side since last week
<ttx> jjohansen: which is good :)
<smoser> no issues found in ec2 testing related to kernel
<jjohansen> a little more debug info shaken out, and a couple more bugs showing up
<smoser> other than possibly bug 567334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567334 in linux "blocked tasks delay cloud-init for 240 seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567334
<jjohansen> right
<ttx> I don'ty have any new burning issue myself... but it's sometimes difficult to be aware of existing kernel bugs affecting server
<smoser> jjohansen, i wonder if you've proposed a blueprint or some mechanism to get official time to trial paravirt-ops kernels on ec2
<jjohansen> smoser: not yet
<jjohansen> it will come I still need to poke that beast a little bit this week
<smoser> i know how difficult or unlikely getting that to work is, but *I* would really like it, and I know it'd make your job much easier if you didn't have thousands of lines of patches
<jjohansen> hehe, well that is motivation to get it working :)
<zul> what no more hulking patch?
<ttx> ok, any other questions/concerns to transmit to the kernel team ?
<kirkland> jjohansen: no progress on that oops?
<kirkland> jjohansen: that we're seeing in some UEC guests?
<kirkland> jjohansen: seems to be only on certain hardware
<jjohansen> kirkland: no :(
<kirkland> jjohansen: alrighty, thanks
<kirkland> jjohansen: i suspect this will need an SRU eventually
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
<jjohansen> though that isn't the only bug we have seen that is hardware specifi
<kirkland> jjohansen: right
<ttx> mathiaz: o/
<mathiaz> a few bugs from karmic:
<mathiaz> bug 156636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156636 in openssh "Please package openssh with LPK patch" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156636
<mathiaz> bug 494141
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494141 in samba "CUPS starts after SAMBA; printers are not available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494141
<mathiaz> Both should be decline IMO
<ttx> not fixed in dev release
<ttx> so not candidates for SRU
<mathiaz> that's all as far as I can say
<mathiaz> given that the bugs-fixed-lately script is broken
<ttx> ok, that was fast !
<mathiaz> anything worth fixing in SRU from last week?
 * kirkland wagers that the SRU portion of this meeting is about to get a lot more interesting in about ~2 weeks :-)
<mathiaz> kirkland: right
<mathiaz> kirkland: I'll add the lucid nominations list once lucid is released
 * ttx wagers that there should be an interesting discussion about SRU handling at UDS in ~3 weeks :-)
<kirkland> ttx: oh?  changes on the way?
<RoAkSoAx>  /join #ubuntu-ha
<mathiaz> which means that the first (few?) meetings may see more SRU activity
<ttx> kirkland: well, we should at least discuss if our current process fits the bill for Lucid
<kirkland> ttx: ah
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think so ...  there's a number of things we'll want to fix for Lucid that didn't make release
<kirkland> mathiaz: and probably a number of new issues that come up as people upgrade
<ttx> i'm not sure it gives us the tracking information we'll need, so far
<mathiaz> Are then any plans to put dedicated ressource on lucid SRU?
<mathiaz> the same way as we did for Hardy?
<ttx> that's a good question and I don't know the answer.
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to confirm with jib lucid SRU resource allocation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to confirm with jib lucid SRU resource allocation
<zul> i think we should because most users probably wont upgrade until .1
<zul> imho
<ttx> mathiaz: could you explain what happened in hardy, for reference ?
<mathiaz> ttx: IIRC some of the desktop team members spent time on hardy SRUs.
<mathiaz> ttx: until enf of June IIRC
<mathiaz> ttx: ask pitti or seb128
<ttx> zul: yes, we need a way to track and coordinate the amount of work we'll all do in that area... and possibly someone dedicated to tracking it
<zul> ttx: I wa working on SRU for the hardy point release
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, zul worked on hardy.1, and i worked on hardy.2
<ttx> noted, thanks !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick call for blueprints
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick call for blueprints
<ttx> So UDS is nearing and volcano smoke seems to clear out
<zul> volcano smoke is overblown
<ttx> If you want to suggest a UDS session topic, feel free to file an Ubuntu blueprint !
<ttx> name is server-maverick-*
<ttx> and approver must be set to "Jos Boumans"
<ttx> at tha point only one was filed:
<ttx> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-wbemcim-providers
<ttx> I also set up a page to braindump and track the propsoed sessions:
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickIdeaPool
<ttx> I'll add a lot more sessions from the team internal braindump in the next hours/days
<ttx> so no need for the Canonical server team to spend time on editing that page
<ttx> but everyone else is more than welcome to do so !
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> anything/anyone ?
<padhu> What about lucid?
<ttx> padhu: what what about lucid ?
<ttx> padhu: it goes out next week
<ttx> hopefully :)
<padhu> In time?
<ttx> team: is sleeping getting any better ?
<ttx> padhu: at this point, yes...
<mathiaz> ttx: still on track
<ttx> padhu: but being late is, by essence, unpredictable.
<padhu> Happy to hear it. I am waiting eagerly
<ttx> padhu: I'd advise you to downlaod and test the RC which goes out tomorrow ! That will make the release all the more enjoyable to you.
<ttx> the sooner we know wbout bugs, the sooner we can fix them.
<zul> ttx:yep
<ttx> ... and by definition, no significant change is expected between RC and final.
<padhu> oh
<padhu> i will try
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Same place, same time, next week, in the middle of the release frenzy
<ttx> i'll be in London next week, hopefully I'll be able to spend time on the meeting
<ttx> Thanks everyone !
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:44.
<padhu> Bye....
<barry> hi everybody!  meeting time...
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0421
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0421
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0421
<ev> hello
<james_w> hi
<padhu> Hi
<mvo> hi
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> hi
<doko_> hi
<barry> [AGENDA]
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> lool, cjwatson, slangasek, ev, doko, james_w, Keybuk, barry, mvo, tremolux
<barry> paste fail
<mvo> tremolux is on vacation
<barry> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<barry> order: cjwatson, slangasek, ev, doko, james_w, Keybuk, barry, mvo
<cjwatson> done: various last-minute installer bug fixes (esp. 543838, 546964, 558382, 566965); branding fixes per design team; generally trying to keep on top of late-breaking bugs
<cjwatson> todo: head-scratching over part of bug 567345, which is looking like a busybox shell bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567345 in grub2 "partman and grub2 fail in server amd64 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567345
<cjwatson> --
<slangasek> done: some spit'n'polish on plymouth and mountall; todo: fix the last few big ugly bugs in plymouth for release; and oh yeah, that RC thing is this week
<slangasek> --
<ev> in progress: Trying to figure out why wubi is setting automatic-ubiquity on the kernel command line for the cd boot helper option.  Trying to get to the bottom of some broken migration-assistant and debconf interaction that's in turn breaking hw-detect (bug 234835, bug 536673).  CD testing && bug fixing.
<ev> todo: Get to the bottom of bug 567243.  Figure out why ubiquity is still cutting off text for some users/languages (bug 560114).  Fix usb-creator breaking on non-FAT partitions (bug 566390).
<ev> blocked: Need a release team review on bug 566552.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234835 in ubiquity "migration-assistant: error: /dev/disk/by-label//home does not exist." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234835
<ev> --
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 536673 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with InstallStepError in configure_hardware()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536673
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567243 in ubiquity "error during OEM setup in French" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 560114 in ubiquity "Truncated text in Ubiquity after selecting Hebrew" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560114
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566390 in usb-creator "USBCreatorProcessException FAT vs any other format" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566390
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566552 in user-setup "Installing over ecryptfs-enabled system causes remove_extras to fail." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566552
<doko> done:
<doko>  * openjdk-6 1.8 release, lucid upload
<doko>  * more sun-java6 updates (twice, first with the wrong debian sources)
<doko>  * eglibc memcpy/strcmp fixes, rebuilds
<doko>  * maverick toolchain preparations
<doko>  * llvm regression fixes
<doko>  * fix some build failures
<doko> todo:
<doko>  * file bug reports for test rebuild failures
<doko>  * need help with that ipv6 networking bug
<doko> --
<james_w> working on a bunch of fixes and merges for both Ubuntu and bzr-builddeb etc. Will continue the same.
<james_w> --
<james_w> probably a little early for the stranded Keybuk?
<barry> ;)
<barry> bug reporting script (from cjwatson) - blocked on lazr.restfulclient; bug
<barry> 552777 (cj2.0); bug 485944 (python-virtualenv debian 1.4.5 sync); pep 3147
<barry> (landed!); python packaging/udd testing
<barry> --
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485944 in python-virtualenv "[FFe] Upgrade to virtualenv 1.4.5" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485944
<barry>  
<cjwatson> pep 3147 landed> great!
<james_w> woo!
<slangasek> james_w: I have no sympathy for him :)
<mvo> fixes in software-center for final release, fixes in update-manager, debugging upgrade issues,  Support-timeframe: prepare final merge into LP production BLOCKED on exact seed definition that we support for 3y, currently working on OOo pre-depends hell
<mvo> --
<barry> \o/
<james_w> slangasek: you're stranded in a different way :-)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Outstanding actions from last meeting
<barry> none that i'm aware of
<james_w> barry: lazr.restfulclient> we need an upgrade in the distro for that?
<barry> james_w: we do
<barry> james_w: i don't have the bug in front of me, but it's a problem with path name lengths
<barry> in the cache
<james_w> yeah, I remember
<barry> james_w: i was going to work on that today
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<barry> slangasek: anything to say about this one?
<james_w> barry: it's in Debian fwiw
<barry> james_w: yep, i think it's a fairly simple sync
<slangasek> outstanding feature freeze exceptions> remember that we'll be face-to-face in three weeks time in Belgium before you ask for a feature freeze exception the week of RC :)
<james_w> so we should ask for them in three weeks?
<slangasek> yes, that's fine
<barry> volcanos permitting of course :)
<cjwatson> French trains permitting in my case I think
<cjwatson> (hey, let's take out all the plausible modes of travel at once!)
<barry> :)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Farming out tasks that aren't being handled
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Farming out tasks that aren't being handled
<barry> milestoned bugs:
<barry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21447
<barry> targetted bugs:
<barry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bug
<slangasek> if anyone is blocked on the release team for feedback regarding critical fixes (ev, just followed up to the bug you mentioned above), please ping directly; I can't guarantee that the bug queue will get flushed in time
<slangasek> mvo: bug #522225 - defer, since you have your hands full with OOo?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522225 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 "permissions incorrect on libmysqlclient16_7.0.9-1_amd64.deb" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522225
<mvo> slangasek: sorry, yes
<ev> slangasek: already replied to your reply :)
<mvo> slangasek: OOo and LP maintenance time
<cjwatson> is that the right milestone list?  I wasn't expecting 0
<ev> but noted
<slangasek> no, it's not
<slangasek> 21439
<cjwatson> I think it should be =21439
<doko> slangasek: I'll ping on visualvm (fix ftbfs, and installability) bug #560138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 560138 in visualvm "visualvm needs an update to 1.2.2 to build with netbeans-6.8" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560138
<barry> cjwatson: ah, yes the template doesn't get updated automatically ;)
<cjwatson> oh, I promised to do a last double-check of oem-config/debconf and defer
<cjwatson> 530027
<cjwatson> I'll do that today
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<cjwatson> bug 540790?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540790 in software-center "handling of untrusted sources is suboptimal" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540790
<mvo> -updates
<cjwatson> and bug 552560?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552560 in soyuz "Please change "Origin" and "Label" in the Release file on archive.canonical.com" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552560
<mvo> for that we need to prod LP again, I can do that
<cjwatson> mvo: 540790 milestone bumped
<mvo> thanks
<cjwatson> I don't see anything else for our team there
<slangasek> 553745... not sure that one's going to get fixed, I think Keybuk had a better handle on it than I do
<slangasek> 559761 should get done, that one's well understood
<barry> slangasek: do you know what's up with the mountall hangs?  i'm still seeing comments on that one, but can no longer reproduce it here
<slangasek> barry: "the mountall hangs" is a bit vague, do you have a bug #?
<barry> ah, yeah, sec...
<cjwatson> 559761 is fix committed already?
<slangasek> cjwatson: it's committed in mountall, but the code it's calling in plymouth is buggy and sometimes causes deadlocks again
<slangasek> reading when we should be writing, instead of writing when we should be reading like last time
<cjwatson> oh, yes, I see you backed it out
<barry> slangasek: it's bug 527666 which is fix committed, but still taking in lots of comments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527666 in mountall "Waiting for /some/partition [SM]" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527666
<slangasek> oh; there are some issues with mountall not getting notified properly of LVs, which is causing trouble for people
<slangasek> I can't reproduce that at all here, unfortunately
<slangasek> may be a race condition of some kind
<barry> yep.  i've been unable to reproduce it since the fix committed
<barry> anything else on milestoned or triaged bugs?
<slangasek> oh, bug #566308 has a useful description
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566308 in lvm2 "udev race with kernel causes mountall problems detecting lvm volumes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566308
<slangasek> maybe someone found our bug
<slangasek> nothing else from me
<barry> slangasek: thanks
<barry> [TOPIC] sponsorship queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  sponsorship queue
<barry> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<doko> cjwatson: could you build busybox with a non-multiarch enabled glibc and recheck with it?
<barry> anything to say about sponsorship, or should we just move on?
<cjwatson> doko: quickest way to do that?
<cjwatson> sponsorship at this point would only be appropriate for RC bugs anyway
<barry> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
<doko> cjwatson: rebuild using https://edge.launchpad.net/~doko/+archive/ppa. should I provide a busybox build? which arch?
<cjwatson> doko: i386 if you could ...
<doko> ok, will do
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> you think it might be due to one of these fancy SSE memcpy optimisations or something?
<mvo> I think I forgot (or was too busy) to send my report, I will do that later today
<doko> just want to exclude that
<barry> mvo: no, it's my fault.  i forgot i was chair today so only asked for them ~1h ago  ;)
<barry> [TOPIC] good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  good news
<mvo> openoffice finished building on my machine
<barry> so, it's official, i've joined foundations (official start is may 1, but i'm not moving back to lp)
<cjwatson> doko: ok; I could also try with different kvm cpu emulations if you can suggest ones that would be useful to narrow things down
<cjwatson> barry: great news
<ev> barry: woo! Great to have you on the team!
<oubiwann> barry: woo! welcome to platform!
<barry> thanks guys!
<slangasek> after the next mountall/plymouth uploads, users will be reliably notified of problems mounting filesystems at boot \o/
<slangasek> barry: congrats!
<mvo> welcome barry!
<james_w> welcome barry!
<oubiwann> slangasek: nice...
<ev> we'll find out in a little under an hour and a half who the summer of code students are.  There are some foundations projects on the list.
<oubiwann> ev: any idea if there's going to be an intersection of SoC projects and UDS sessions?
<barry> ev: do we know if any of the gsoc's will be at uds?
<james_w> I don't think there will be many SoC students at UDS
<ev> oubiwann: I don't know offhand if any potential students are attending
<mdeslaur> slangasek: sweet!
 * doko is otp
<barry> any other good news?
<slangasek> doko: bug #560138> you didn't subscribe ubuntu-release, *and* you set it confirmed yourself, so this wasn't even in the queue for review... :)  does this need an FFe, or is it a bugfix release?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 560138 in visualvm "visualvm needs an update to 1.2.2 to build with netbeans-6.8" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560138
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ev> the volcano seems to have subsided enough to not ruin the release sprint
<ev> I think
<cjwatson> maaaaybe
<cjwatson> assuming katla doesn't go off in which case we're all screwed
 * barry books his QEII tickets
<cjwatson> amusingly I watched the "Journey to the Centre of the Earth" remake last night ...
 * oubiwann laughs
<barry> if there's no other business...
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:40.
<barry> thanks everybody!
<barry> oh woops, we need a chair for next week
 * james_w volunteers
<barry> james_w: thanks!
<doko> slangasek: well, I did confirm the uninstallability, and the ftbfs :) just got the sources today from sun. it's a bug fix release, building with netbeans 6.8.  it has new version for two of its plugins
<barry> have a good day everybody, maybe see you in 2.5 weeks
<ev> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
<persia> Whoever owns the agenda for this meeting: would you mind updating the sponsoring URL to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html ?
<ev> see you next week (possibly) / at UDS (possibly)
<slangasek> doko: confirm> but an FFe request is a process bug, if you set it confirmed yourself then it's not in the release team's pending queue
<slangasek> doko: anyway - is this something that needs an FFe, or is it just a bugfix release?
<barry> persia: will do
<persia> barry: Thanks.
<cjwatson> persia: I've updated the template, minus the "index.html"
<barry> cjwatson: thanks
 * barry saw your lock :)
<cjwatson> yeah, sorry, acquired the lock before you said
<persia> I don't expect we'll change the implementation soon, but that's even more flexible :)
<doko> slangasek: bug fix, it was broken by the netbeans-6.8 upload. will allow us to remove some old netbeans libs as well
<slangasek> doko: if it's bugfix-only, you don't need an FFe, just upload
<doko> slangasek: it's uploaded
<slangasek> doko: ah, ok - grabbing now
 * marjo waves
 * schwuk waves back
 * bdmurray flaps arms
<marjo> #startmeeting QA Team
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
<marjo> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo> # Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<marjo> # ISO RC testing -- ara
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie
<sbeattie> Once again, a very quiet week on the SRU front.
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-04-07):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 2 new packages in -proposed (boost1.38, kpackagekit)
<sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (keepalived, postgresql-8.4)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 1 package pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> * hardy: 1 package pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 packages pushed to -updates (postgresql-8.1)
<sbeattie> Thanks to VTWoods, Wolfgang Pietsch, and Sean for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> That said, once lucid is released, SRUs will definitely pick up.
<marjo> sbeattie: people are busy with ISO testing?
<sbeattie> It sure seems that way.
<marjo> thx sbeattie
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<pedro_> On Thursday 15 we had a bug day based on Software Center, the Community contribution was awesome as always: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100415
<pedro_> ~126 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes: om26eer, yofel, vish, charlie-tca, jibel, hernejj, kamusin,  etali and malev for their extraordinary work!
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day for Evince: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100422
<pedro_> There's plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us, we'll be glad to help you to start
<pedro_> that's all from here marjo
<marjo> thx pedro_
<marjo> [TOPIC] ISO RC testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO RC testing
<marjo> the ISO testing seems to be going well
<marjo> anybody can help out with http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested ?
<fader_> marjo: I should have some cycles this afternoon to pick up some more
<fader_> Got the mythbuntu tests done yesterday :)
<marjo> there are a few upgrade paths still not covered, so if you have some time & equipment, please consider
<Daviey> fader_: you rock!
<marjo> helping out for full coverage!
<marjo> fader: thx!
<fader_> :D
<marjo> fader: i don't remember, can you cover amd64
<marjo> ?
<fader_> marjo: Yep
<fader_> In a VM
<marjo> ok, thx; i think bladernr and ameetp can also cover amd64, right?
<bladernr> marjo:  aye
<marjo> on real HW
<ameetp> marjo: yeah
<marjo> bladernr, ameetp: can you please consider
<marjo> thx; would appreciate it
<marjo> according to ara, the optional test cases are also getting covered nicely
<marjo> thx to everyone who's helping w/ the testing; this phase is looking very good
<marjo> any questions on ISO testing?
<marjo> folks: any new topics for today?
<davmor2> covering m-a now but also in the middle of hell :)
<marjo> davmor2: m-a?
<davmor2> Migration-Assistant
<marjo> davmor2: thx!
<cr3> marjo: I've been trying to get the release team to acknoweldge whether a bug in checkbox was release critical or not, still no luck
<marjo> cr3: thx for the update
<cr3> sbeattie: ^^^ do you think you could help with that?
<sbeattie> cr3: which bug?
<cr3> sbeattie: see bug #567568 for my proposal which has a comment detailing the specific problems which might be release critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567568 in checkbox "Candidate revision checkbox_0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567568
<cr3> sbeattie: I'm perfectly comfortable releasing this as an SRU, but I just wanted to get acknoweldgement
<sbeattie> cr3: okay, I think the issue may have been that it was against the checkbox project, and not the checkbox package in ubuntu.
<bdmurray> wouldn't the release team notice the bug better if it was filed against ubuntu had was targeted to Lucid?
<sbeattie> but I'm fixing that and will target it to lucid.
<cr3> sbeattie: thanks!
<sbeattie> cr3: it won't make it for rc as it's on the isos and would require a respin.
<marjo> cr3: i can't believe that the release team would consider this a "release critical", specially 8 days from release; SRU here we come
<marjo> [TOPIC] Release Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Status
<marjo> down to the wire, the QA team work items look great
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa.html
<marjo> only hggdh & sbeattie have work items left until release
<marjo> no pressure!
<sbeattie> heh
<marjo> thx to everyone for meeting all your commitments, per milestone basis, very nice work!
<marjo> folks: any other topics for today?
<marjo> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
<marjo> going once
<marjo> going twice
<marjo> meeting adjourned
<cr3> houray!
<marjo> thx everyone! keep testing!
<fader_> Thanks all
<marjo> #endmeeting
<pedro_> thanks
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:22.
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> howdy!
<highvoltage> gobby document is on gobby.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> just going to get some water, will be back in a sec
<highvoltage> docname: edubuntu-maverick-brainstorming
<highvoltage> we'll start that a bit later so if you still need to install gobby (or get water) you'll have time
<stgraber> ;)
 * stgraber looks for the old gobby clinet
<stgraber> client even
<highvoltage> I'll give a technical summary on the last week so long
<highvoltage>  * We had to drop translations from the edubuntu-slideshow since it made the experience way too inconsistant
<highvoltage> (something we'll specifically remember to add and promote for maverick)
<highvoltage>  * Bunch of bug fixes, mostly beating the live ltsp and ltsp installer stuff into shape, it's about ready for release with the last upload I made today
 * stgraber is commenting a bit on gobby
 * Lns waves to everyone
<highvoltage> hey there Lns!
<Lns> hi highvoltage =) sorry i'm late..will probably have to leave early too
<highvoltage> Lns: no problem, glad you're here!
<bencrisford> hullo everyone :)
<Lns> hi bencrisford
<highvoltage> we don't really have any big technical or community issues for this meeting, are we all ready to add the ideas to gobby?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: mind if i mention the blueprint i found
<highvoltage> bencrisford: fire away
<highvoltage> 21:01 < highvoltage> gobby document is on gobby.ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> 21:01 < highvoltage> docname: edubuntu-maverick-brainstorming
<highvoltage> Lns ^^^ you probably missed that
<bencrisford> well in the last few meetings we've been talking about team restructuring i.e. deleting inactive/unnecessary ones, fixing needed ones and generally organising and cleaning up
<Lns> highvoltage: thanks.. gobby?
<bencrisford> then the other day i happened to find a blueprint on exactly this (you might have seen it) assigned to JohnEd
 * bencrisford finds blueprint
<bencrisford> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/education-launchpad-groups
<bencrisford> there it is
<bencrisford> 3 years old
<bencrisford> but still relevent
<highvoltage> mhall119: I see you joined us on gobby, have you put any thought into perhaps having a gnome-based qimo session in the future?
<mhall119> I've been thinking about it, yeah
<mhall119> I'll have to figure out all the gnome-settings, since they're different from how Xfce does it
<mhall119> but it should be possible to make a Qimo-Gnome session
<highvoltage> mhall119: most of it goes into gconf, which actually makes it quite easy to change
<mhall119> that's what I thought
 * stgraber just moved a few stuff around on gobby and commented on pretty much everything ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I think things like central authentication should be done from a server team perspective
<highvoltage> stgraber: and when it's ready it's just something that we include
<highvoltage> (even though it's edubuntu'ish people doin it in the server team)
<highvoltage> (I hope I'm making sense)
<stgraber> yeah, we can probably give a hand at the server team guys to make that happen
 * bencrisford is sad that no-one is interested in the blueprint he found :(
<bencrisford> j/k
<bencrisford> :P
 * stgraber is proudly running ldap+kerberos+gosa at home ;)
<highvoltage> I opened it in a tab, haven't looked at it yet
<highvoltage> stgraber: nerd!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ok ;) :)
<highvoltage> (I've been wanting to do it too for years)
<stgraber> highvoltage: well, "home" means over 120 VMs and 10 hosts on 2 continents, 3 countries and 5 physical sites ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: so it's kind of a necesity
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yeah that blueprint should probably be added under a ==community== heading
<bencrisford> ooh, in the posh gobby doc?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ^?
<highvoltage> yes bencrisford
<stgraber> bencrisford: btw, are you going to UDS ?
<highvoltage> one thing I'd really like to see is getting our script repository being used more
<bencrisford> stgraber: fraid not
<highvoltage> there's lots of people writing a bunch of useful scripts to simplify admin work that they might want to share but perhaps they're just not aware of a platform
<highvoltage> perhaps we should have sessions where we show people how to use bzr and get their scripts up, and also document the scripts on help.ubuntu.com
<bencrisford> highvoltage: should I link to that blueprint though?  because its still assigned to JohnEd
<bencrisford> RichEd* my bad :P
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I'm sure we can get an LP admin to change that for us, so yes
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, RichEd has been gone a long time then?
<stgraber> bencrisford: he no longer works for Canonical
<bencrisford> stgraber: ah ok
<highvoltage> highvoltage: yep, for more than 2 years iirc
<stgraber> highvoltage: more like a year. Barcelona was the first UDS without RichEd, last met him in Mountainview, CA
<highvoltage> stgraber: wow, it really feels longer, he was very unavailable for a long time before he left, so I'm probably just thinking of that too
<stgraber> yeah
<highvoltage> hmm, I'm not sure why but it feels like we're missing something
<highvoltage> I guess the next steps would be to make blueprints of stuff we know that we want to do and link them to these items on the wiki page
<highvoltage> (busy pasting to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Specifications/Brainstorming/Maverick)
<highvoltage> things like Sugar and OpenLDAP/Kerberos have always been somewhat tricky
<highvoltage> but we can note down any and all risks inside the specification
<highvoltage> we should probably split all those items into a few sessions at UDS, the LTSP and authentication items would fall under the server track
<highvoltage> you guys are a bit more quiet than usual tonight :)
 * highvoltage ads the actions I just mentioned to the doc
<stgraber> that's because we are half on irc half on gobby ;)
<highvoltage> heh, ok :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: did you get that link from akgraner with the interview questions?
<stgraber> highvoltage: nope
 * stgraber checks
<stgraber> nope
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok I'll ping you with it after the meeting
<stgraber> ok
<bencrisford> what interview's that then? :)
<highvoltage> I copied the gobby doc contents to the wikipage
<highvoltage> (more like, moved it to avoid conflicts)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: akgraner is doing an interview with us about Edubuntu, to spread some awareness
<bencrisford> highvoltage: thats awesome :), where's is being published?
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh, I see you're used to mediawiki formatting atm :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: ubuntu fridge, planet, etc
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, unfortunately ... I'd love to get rid of that believe me ;)
<mhall119> highvoltage: is she doing to get it on Ubuntu User or FCM?
<highvoltage> mhall119: probably in Ubuntu User at minimam, not sure about FCM, she did say before but that was a while ago so I'm not 100% sure if it will make FCM as well
<mhall119> cool
<highvoltage> tomorrow I'll contact our web guys who seem to be a bit rare on IRC when we have meetings :)
<highvoltage> we'll try to co-ordinate so that our site is up by the time we get to release
<highvoltage> our meeting next week is the day before release, so we can then check through everything and make sure all our release work items are done
<bencrisford> awesome :)
<stgraber> yep, we really need to hurry on the website as it'll be extremely hard to update next week
<highvoltage> oh right due to bandwidth constraints?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: btw, just read your edubuntu blog post, thanks for the mention :)
<stgraber> nope, due to not having any sysadmin available ;)
<highvoltage> heh, ok
<highvoltage> bencrisford: you're welcome!
<highvoltage> Anyone have anything else for this meeting? I think we got most of the ideas that has been mentioned up until now down
<highvoltage> and I think we have a good idea of what we should be doing for the next few days
<stgraber> nope, nothing to add here. Seems like we'll get a great release for 10.04 ! congrats everyone
<highvoltage> *nod* congrats and thanks!
<highvoltage> Meeting adjourned!
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<bencrisford> highvoltage: :( so its the end of the BONG ?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: unfortunately, yes. :)
<bencrisford> it doesnt seem right, that the BONG that has served us so well should just be left to gather dust highvoltage
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-22
<dpm> Hi everyone!
<dpm> Welcome to this new Ubuntu Translations meeting
<dpm> let's wait a couple of minutes for people to turn up...
<kelemengabor> o/
<dpm> hey :)
<dpm> let's see who's there :)
<henninge> me
<etali> Hi, that worked to wake me up :)
<dpm> cool :)
<Destine> dpm, Hi!
<dpm> whoah, people is coming in masses now... :)
<dpm> I'll have to take note that pinging really works...
<Destine> dpm, yes... it works!
 * Blue-Omega_ highlights dpm back
<dpm> :-)
<mcas> o/
<TomaszD> g'day
<Blue-Omega_> you too
<dpm> hey everyone, thanks for coming. Let's get started, shall we?
<Destine> dpm ok.
<dpm> So here's the agenda for today:
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2010-04-22
<dpm> As I said, I'd like to concentrate on the UDS sessions on translations today. And here's a preliminary list:
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/UDS
<dpm> I'd just like to hear what you think, and let everyone propose sessions if they'd like to.
<dpm> You'll see in the page that there is also a "Final list section".
<dpm>  That's just in case we end up with a big list and there is no time to run all sessions
<dpm> (or to avoid us really quickly burning out ;)
<kelemengabor> how many sessions can we have in total?
<dpm> kelemengabor, there is no set limit, we've got enough space, I think
<dpm> it's just a matter of having a good set and not exceedingly many
<dpm> but there's room for proposing more
<kelemengabor> cool, I have a few problems to discuss :)
<dpm> I cannot tell you exactly "we've got e.g. 15 slots"
<dpm> but I can tell you: "we probably have enough"
<dpm> anyway,
<dpm> so if the list gets really big, some might go to the "Deferred" section for another UDS or another method of discussion (e.g. on the mailing list, on a meeting, etc.)
<dpm> Oh, and btw, I'll obviously be attending, ArneGoetje from the Desktop team will be as well, and henninge from the Launchpad Translations team.
<dpm> He'll be the only representative of the Rosetta team this time.
<dpm> so don't be too hard on him ;)
 * henninge shivers
 * dpm hugs henninge :)
<dpm> I know some of you are attending as well, but I might not know all. Who else is coming?
 * henninge feels better ;)
<etali> Are all sessions streamed, or just the "main" ones?  (Not going, but hoping to follow along remotely)
 * kelemengabor will be there
<dpm> cool :)
<dpm> etali, all sessions' voice is streamed, and we've got IRC in all rooms, so it's very easy to participate remotely. In fact...
<Destine> dpm, got declined...
<dpm> For those not attending but still interested in participating, you can always remotely be there on IRC. Sound for all the sessions is streamed for everyone to listen in, and on every UDS rooom there are projectors showing the IRC conversations for everyone in the room to see.
<dpm> Destine, sorry to hear that, but there's always a next UDS, so don't worry
<dpm> Jorge Castro is going to run a talk on how to participate remotely in UDS next Friday:
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
<henninge> dpm: there is this but I am not sure it will fill a session. https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/launchpad-translator-communication
<Destine> dpm, sure, I am still working...
<etali> dpm, every room?  That's cool.  Thanks.
<henninge> dpm: without the "fuzzy" subject, though.
<dpm> henninge, yeah, let's start with the sessions. I can start with a quick review of the existing topics, or either ellaborate more on any where you might have questions, or let everyone who's got any proposal to start. I'm flexible, what do you guys prefer?
<Destine> +1 for doing the existing ones first.
<henninge> yes, of course.
<dpm> ok, let's try to do this quickly, then
<dpm> = Translations community roundtable =
<dpm> the name says it all. roundtable session to discuss anything that doesn't need a full session
<dpm> feel free to add any bullet points with topics on the wiki page
<dpm> = Launchpad Translations roundtable =
<dpm> Another unstructured session. I thought henninge could gave us an update of the latest developments in LP
<henninge> dpm: sure, I can do that.
<dpm> and we can give him feedback on the usage of LP translations
<dpm> cool :)
<henninge> also, the topic from the blueprint could simply go in here
<dpm> ah, good point
<dpm> = Translations Community Advocacy =
<dpm> a session to discuss how to promote the Ubuntu translations project
<dpm> let it grow and get more contributors for all languages
<dpm> = Translations Community Learning Content =
<dpm> a session to discuss the creation of documentation and other media (e.g. screencasts, etc.) on how to get started translating Ubuntu
<dpm> and basically ease the entry barrier
<dpm> screencasts could for example be made and used for all teams
<dpm> e.g. replacing the sound track
<dpm> = Translations Community Events =
<dpm> this is related to the other two
<Destine> Translations Community Learning Content. This one sounds interesting.
<dpm> :)
<dpm> discuss a series of translation events to help translating Ubuntu throughout the cycle
<dpm> in addition to the Ubuntu Global Jam, etc
<dpm> = Extend the translations reporting site =
<dpm> that's about better reporting the translations stats for Ubuntu as a distro
<dpm> I started last cycle on that, and I'd like to improve this, perhaps with the use of a LP Translations Reporting API
<dpm> btw, it's taken longer this time, but I've calculated the stats for lucid, I'll announce them soon on the ML
<dpm> = Translation teams outreach =
<dpm> I'd like to contact all translation teams and know more about them and see if they need help in any areas. That's also about communication. Some teams might not know what's going on and that there is a global mailing list and other communication resources
<dpm> this might be in the form of a survey to make it easier, but I still don't know
<dpm> = Launchpad Translations Reporting API =
<dpm> we've got a spec for accessing translation data through launchpadlib
<dpm> already, and adiroiban has even started working on it
<dpm> https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/Specs/ReportingAPI
<dpm> I'd like to discuss how this can be implemented, current status, etc.
<dpm> and get other people involved if they want to become the next LP superheroes :)
<dpm> = Developer education on localization =
<freeflying> dpm: sorry, late
<dpm> I'm still not sure if I'll schedule a session for this one
<dpm> freeflying, no worries :)
<dpm> all the i18n documentation is spread around, and if you add that with the Ubuntu infrastructure, langpacks, etc. it's difficult to understand everything
<dpm> so I'd like to have a development resource to collect all that
<dpm> This is about expanding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation
<dpm> = Universe is translatable in Launchpad =
<dpm> ah, an interesting one... :)
<freeflying> dpm: thats great, we need some attention on i18n from development perspective
<dpm> freeflying, yeah, that's been lacking for some time, and I hopefully can dedicate some time to it next cycle
<dpm> anyway,
<dpm> I'd like to discuss if this would be technically possible. I'm told that from the LP translations side, this wouldn't be much of an issue, but we'd have to see how we'd implement this in language packs, etc
<dpm> so I'd simply like to see the options
<freeflying> dpm: for i18n, Arne seems will have seesions
<dpm> So that was it. Questions on any of these, or would you like to start with proposing ideas
<dpm> )
<dpm> ?
<dpm> freeflying, ArneGoetje, feel free to speak up or to add the sessions to the wiki page
<kelemengabor> to me, all of these make sense, so they are worth a bit of time to discuss
<dpm> cool, I'm glad to hear that :)
<henninge> dpm: same feeling from me
<dpm> cool
<kelemengabor> especially the developer education... I met in this cycle with the "stop nagging me" attitude from some developers in bugreports, if we could do anything to change that... :)
<ivarela> hi to all
<dpm> yeah, that's a good point
<dpm> bones ivarela, it seems you guys are getting famous :) -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2022
<ivarela> yes, I saw it yesterday (marcos told me)
<dpm> awesome
<ivarela> thank you very much ;)
<kelemengabor> also, I'd like to propose a session about better, say "proactive" bug detection and shortening the average lifespan of bugs
<kelemengabor> it's quite annoying to that we do not even try to reduce the number of translation problems to 0
<kelemengabor> that is, we often detect bugs only when it's too late
<dpm> kelemengabor, that's a good idea, especially because we tend to get a lot shortly before release, and often there is no much time to squash them all
<dpm> kelemengabor, do you think you could add it to the wiki page?
<dpm> with a short description, or bullet points, etc?
<kelemengabor> and there are several cases when nobody listens to the reports, thus they get not fixed for several releases...
<kelemengabor> sure
<dpm> cool, any other things?
<dpm> anyway, so I understand that everyone is happy with the current set and wouldn't like to add more? If so, feel free to speak up here, on the mailing list or just add them to the wiki
<kelemengabor> also, there it would be great if we could agree on a langpack update schedule: predicatable translation updates could help scheduling work
<kelemengabor> and not only langpacks, but DDTP translations, (k)ubuntu-docs too
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeah. I'll add that one. I'd like to review the way we do it now. We can discuss all of those and perhaps sync'ed updates. Even on-demand updates
<kelemengabor> this means also extending a bit the definition of "supported release": not only bug fixes, but translation updates too
<dpm> We discussed that on the UDS in Barcelona, but I must admit that not much have changed
<dpm> so It hink it's a good time to review it
<kelemengabor> oh sure, on-demand updates is something I'd also like to see: who knows better than me that I just fixed a "paperbag" bug? :D
<dpm> kelemengabor, I feel like giving you work today :P, do you think you could add also the langpack and translation updates on the wiki page?
<dpm> the sessions, I mean :)
<kelemengabor> I'll try :)
<dpm> thanks a lot :)
<kelemengabor> I'm not sure if it's worth a session, but I'd like to talk about the possibility of a centralized, all langugage speaking help.ubuntu.com too
<dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, that's a good point too. But for that to move forward, we need someone from the docs team to be there too (even remotely). We discussed that on the last UDS, but again (and that's probably my fault for not pushing it more), we didn't see any change there
<kelemengabor> it may make sense to let teams to create local websites as they wish, to fit their needs etc, but saying them to duplicate the infrastructure of help.ubuntu.com makes no sense to me: you can simply not build an arbitrary site around that content, so why not have it centralized?
<dpm> I'll try to e-mail the docs list today or tomorrow to see whether someone from the docs team can make it. I still think it's worth adding
<kelemengabor> okay, I'll add that too :)
<dpm> cool, thanks for the feedback as well, that seems to reinstate the comments other translators have had on this
<dpm> so, anything else anyone? As I say, this can continue on the mailing list in the next few days
<dpm> also, if anyone has got questions on UDS, feel free to ask!
<kelemengabor> I guess this was all from me :)
<dpm> awesome, thanks a lot kelemengabor
<ivarela> is my first time here. And I arrived late (sorry for the delay), so I do not know what issues were discussed. There will be a summary list?
<dpm> ivarela, sure, the meeting is logged and I'll post a summary on the mailing list (probably not until tomorrow, though)
<kelemengabor> dpm: oh, and one more thing...
<dpm> sure, go ahead
<kelemengabor> earlier, you asked translators several time on the list to test proposed langpack updates if they are okay
<kelemengabor> I don't think that this makes much sense...
<kelemengabor> it is hard to detect the differences introduced in the new langpack
<kelemengabor> except if you did them yourself and made a note
<kelemengabor> can we talk about abolishing this nonsense? :)
<kelemengabor> this does not worth a full session though
<dpm> yeah, I know, it's just a matter of running the langpack and see if there are any crashes (we've had quite a few in Arabic and Hebrew and plurals). I'm open to talk about anything, and I think this particular item would fit well in the langpacks schedule session you were proposing
<dpm> I'd be happy to abolish that as well, but I haven't got any solution at the moment :)
<dpm> anyway, we're running late and I'd like to finish the meeting. We can continue discussing this on #ubuntu-translators, though
<dpm> So I'd say that was it. Thank you all very much for participating, and now let's go and finish all those remaining translations before the deadline today!
<dpm> bye everyone!
 * greg-g waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-23
<pleia2> just gathering up quorum and then we'll start the americas board meeting :)
<pleia2> but first I'd like to apologize for the short notice on this meeting, I think with the release next week we've all been a bit overwhelmed
<greg-g> +1's being overwhelmed/worked
<crimsun> no kidding. I'm taking lunch breaks to push patches for Ubuntu/upstream.
<crimsun> I'm looking forward to a nice long break.
<greg-g> crimsun++
<mrand> How many  lunch breaks do you take each day? ;-)
<crimsun> the mandated 30-minute one
<greg-g> crimsun works harder than many I know
<Technoviking> sigh
<mrand> I'm sure sound, among other things, keeps him VERY busy!
<pleia2> not sure if we're going to manage to get quorum
<pleia2> giving it until 20 after
<BslBryan> How many more do we need?
<pleia2> one
<greg-g> sorry everyone... sometimes life gets in the way of making quorum :/
<BslBryan> We still might get it.  I'll try to contact someone who's not here.
<persia> I'm willing to sit in, if you get too stuck.
<pleia2> w00t
<pleia2> ok, you're in persia :)
<persia> OK.
<pleia2> greg-g: shall we begin?
<greg-g> we shall
<greg-g> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for <DATE>. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:20. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<greg-g> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<greg-g> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<greg-g> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<greg-g> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<greg-g> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<greg-g> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> I think flare183 is missing
<greg-g> mrand, you're up!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] mrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  mrand
<mrand> Howdy all!  I've been using Ubuntu since installing Mythbuntu 7.10.  I had been wanting to do an install long before then, but family and work obligations pretty much consumed all my time prior to that.  After installing and reporting a bug or two, I was pleasantly surprised to find the Ubuntu developers didn't treat users with the same disdain that I have seen with many other open source projects, so I started trying to help out a bi
<mrand> As is probably the case with many people, helping out "a little" has eventually grown into helping out during most of my free time as I have learned the processes and procedures for Launchpad and for a Debian-based OS as it differs from various Unix OS's that I've used in the past. Anyway, you can find more info and handy links here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcRandolph
<greg-g> cool, hi mrand. You mention bug triage, I think I've seen you chatting in #ubuntu-bugs before, yes?
<mrand> Quite possibly.  I hang out there, both to learn and to answer question as I have time.
<pleia2> mrand: woo, mythbuntu! can you tell us a bit about your involvement with it?
<tgm4883> I'm here for mrand from the Mythbuntu team. I have prepared a short(ish) statement
<pleia2> tgm4883: feel free to go ahead at any time
<tgm4883> mrand has contributed a great deal to the Mythbuntu project. He single handedly took our bug section which was becoming very large with "new" bugs because it was an unmanaged mess that no developer wanted to take on and he transformed it into something that we as developers can now handle. We have an organized area now. We have guidelines for how we mark bugs and have stock replies for requesting information from users to help us actually
<tgm4883> fix bugs. This may not sound like a lot to some, but this frees up a lot of time for us and gives us consistency across bug reports and increases how we look to the community. Mythbuntu could definitely use more developer time, and now that we don't spend so much time managing bug reports that is just what mrand has given us.
<greg-g> rock on, thank you tgm4883
<mrand> pleia2: sure... I try to to front-line triage, especially regarding getting bugs upstreamed.  I also try to keep an eye on upstream, especially around release time like now, in case there is anything we need to cherry pick.
<tgm4883> greg-g, yw
<mrand> as you may or may not know, mythtv, even on its best day, is beta software, so it takes a bit more hands on care from the developers than most other ubuntu packages.
<pleia2> mrand: that's great, we've run a few mythbuntu events in pennsylvania and we really do appreciate that last minute cherry-picking :)
<persia> mrand: You seem to have been very active in bug triage.  You also mention the Dallas and Texas teams as affiliations: could you share a bit about what you've been doing with them?
<mrand> persia: My main efforts on the LoCo side is trying to provide moral support to the guy heading up the effort to get the Texas Team official.  Texas has had a rough time, for various reasons, and they appear to finally be getting some feed underneath them.  I actually met pleia2 at the impromtu Texas meeting during UDS last year. :-)
<mrand> The team is planning an event next weekend, in fact.
<pleia2> that impromtu meetup was really great
<greg-g> mrand: a release party?
<mrand> greg-g:  yes... at the ..... "mean cat" bar and grill, or something to that effect.  *looking*
<greg-g> heh, no worries, I won't be able to make it
<greg-g> :)
<pleia2> hehe
<mrand> "Mean Eyed Cat"
<mrand> http://themeaneyedcat.com/ if anyone is interested.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://themeaneyedcat.com/ if anyone is interested.
 * nhandler wonders how Dustin Kirkland finds these bars
<mrand> Indeed
<pleia2> [VOTE] mrand membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  mrand membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Technoviking> +1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<greg-g> congrats mrand !
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, mrand!
<mrand> super.  thanks so much everyone!
<pleia2> keep mythubntu rocking :)
<mrand> We're sure going to try!
<pleia2> ok, I don't see RedSingularity or manjo here today
<pleia2> [TOPIC] BslBryan
<MootBot> New Topic:  BslBryan
<greg-g> BslBryan: you're up! :)
<BslBryan> Hello everyone!  I don't have much to say as an introduction. :-)  I have been using Ubuntu for a while and contributing for over a year.  While I have a little bit of experience all over the place, my main reason for requesting membership is advocacy.  This may sound a little extreme, but I was actually so impressed with Ubuntu that I designed, bought, and constructed a computer store based on my experiences with it.
<BslBryan>  You can find out more about my experience and loco forum moderating, etc, at my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BslBryan
<pleia2> BslBryan: wow, when did you open?
<BslBryan> October 15, 2009. :-)
<pleia2> congrats!
<BslBryan> Thank you.
<pleia2> so, lots of work with the georgia team, but you're in TN?
<BslBryan> Yes.  I went to college in Georgia.  I am still involved with the team, and go there for Linux fests, etc.  but I am now back in Chattanooga, and soon will be in Chicago.
<Technoviking> I have to go, but gave my vote to the board
<pleia2> might be interested in the tennessee team, they have regular meetings these days in #ubuntu-us-tn, great crowd :)
<BslBryan> Certainly.  But with work and such it seems like a lot to handle.  But it would certainly be easier to meet face to face. ;-)
 * pleia2 nods
<greg-g> oh right, Chattanooga, that is the town who's newspaper hired one of my favorite cartoonists, Clay Bennett, from the Christian Science Monitor
<BslBryan> I hadn't heard about that.
<greg-g> just an aside ;)
<BslBryan> Haha.
<BslBryan> No worries, I will look him up now.
 * persia is impressed at a such detail and so many links in an applicant page, and fails to have unanswered questions.
<greg-g> good testimonials, BslBryan
<BslBryan> Thanks.
<pleia2> [VOTE] BslBryan membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  BslBryan membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1 Lots of great work in many areas!
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cody-somerville-> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville-. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<pleia2> oh, I forgot to vote!
<pleia2> haha +1 :)
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, BslBryan !!
<BslBryan> Haha.  Thank you all very much.
<greg-g> just to be sure, are either manjo or RedSingularity here?
<greg-g> alright then, I think thats it for tonight!
<greg-g> thanks to all the attendees and congrats mrand and BslBryan, I'm glad to see you two on board!
<nhandler> Congrats to all of the new members
<BslBryan> Thanks.  Good night, everyone.
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:45.
<kirkland> nhandler: Austin has a *lot* of bars and pubs ;-)
<pitti> o/
<ttx> o/
 * sbeattie waves
 * apw looks about
<ScottK> o/
<Riddell> hi
<jiboumans> o/
 * ogra heard the noise in here and lurks 
 * apw bangs things on the table
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-23
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-04-23
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * rickspencer to ask designers about new Edubuntu logo
<slangasek>   * doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291 (DONE:http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/codecs.open.log)
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates (INPROGRESS)
<slangasek>   * pitti to investigate pm-utils hook for final to disable s/r on dells affected by bug #526354 (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526354 in linux "[Dell Studio 1537] temperature sensors and fan stop working following suspend/resume" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526354
 * apw confirms that the dell workaround disables suspend for him
<slangasek> at this point, I think the python stuff is going to be for SRU as I don't think we'll make any progress in the next week with everything else going on
<slangasek> apw: :)
<slangasek> and I think the Edubuntu logo is now done?
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ScottK> (on python)
 * slangasek reads scrollback in #-release - yep, Edubuntu logo is done
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<sbeattie> Hardware Testing (automated):
<sbeattie> Netbook:
<sbeattie>    passed: 14 (100%)   failed: 0 (0%)    untested: 0 (0%)
<sbeattie> Laptop:
<sbeattie>    passed: 42 (98%)    failed: 0 (0%)    untested: 1 (2%)
<sbeattie> Server:
<sbeattie>    passed: 64 (96%)    failed: 0 (0%)    untested: 3 (4%)
<sbeattie> Desktop:
<sbeattie>    passed: 13 (100%)   failed: 0 (0%)    untested: 0 (0%)
<sbeattie> More details at http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<slangasek> looks good
<sbeattie> I didn't get a report from fader about any additional manual hardware testing we've done in thepast week.
<sbeattie> Lucid Release Candidate ISO Testng Report
<sbeattie> == Test Coverage ==
<sbeattie> Image Coverage: 100%
<sbeattie> Mandatory Testcase Coverage: 210/210 = 100.00%
<sbeattie> Optional Testcase Coverage: 15/23 = 65.22%
<sbeattie> 16 Test Failures with a Failure Rate 16/225 = 7.11%
<sbeattie> Unfixed Issues: 49 (Critical: 1 High: 12)
<sbeattie> Fixed Issues: 13 (Critical: 0 High: 6)
<sbeattie> Detailed ISO testing report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/LucidRCTestReport
<sbeattie> (fixed/unfixed is somewhat stale, as I'm aware of at least two issues that have been fixed since the report was generated)
<pitti> pm-utils> I'm not proud of it, but it works
<pitti> edubuntu logo> this is done, and I think the currently pending edubuntu-artwork upload has it
<slangasek> ok
<sbeattie> slangasek: that's all I have to report, unless there's any questions.
<slangasek> is there a list of the optional testcases that we didn't cover?  I don't seem to ever find this in the tracker
<sbeattie> slangasek: I don't know; I asked marjo about that in our last QA meeting and he didn't have one.
<slangasek> (not in summary form, I mean)
<slangasek> ok
<sbeattie> I'll try to track one down; I'd like to see us complete those.
<slangasek> agreed
<slangasek> [ACTION] sbeattie to track down a list of the outstanding optional test cases for RC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to track down a list of the outstanding optional test cases for RC
<slangasek> (will try to get a summary of action items sent out while it's still relevant :)
<slangasek> any other questions for QA?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> sbeattie: thanks
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> hi!
<ttx> Updated team status at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> We have no bugs in the queue for release right now. There are a few candidates that might make it if processed in time
<ttx> bug 533029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 533029 in autofs5 "[FFE] autofs5-ldap doesn't work immediately after bootup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533029
<ttx> this one is pending a FFe review for the upstart script
<slangasek> yes, will review that today
<ttx> bug 563829 -- in progress and probably good to have
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563829 in openldap "olcAccess are options broken on upgrade in {-1}frontend.ldif" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563829
<ttx> bug 565018 and bug 566792 affect running the cloud image on UEC, still under heavy investigation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565018 in cloud-init "instance is not reachable via ssh" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566792 in eucalyptus "UEC guests sometimes fail on consuming user data (metadata service isn't ready)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566792
<ttx> and finally ScottK mentioned a ClamAV update
<ttx> All the others were targeted for early SRU, since they are not RC
<ttx> (and also listed on the page for easy reference)
<ttx> We also started to list a few universe target of opportunity, since there will be a window for them pre-release
<ttx> On the specs side, not much movement since last week, but they are not RC in any way
<slangasek> pitti: I see you talked to ScottK about clamav, but it's still in the queue - no decision yet?
<pitti> slangasek: I didn't have the guts to accept it yet; the debdiff is horribly big, and it changes a lot in all sorts of places
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> so this can only be dealt with by a lot of testing feedback
 * ScottK votes trust sgran and accept, but ....
<pitti> jdstrand: do you guys happen to have a clamav test in our testsuite bzr?
<ScottK> pitti: There is.
<ttx> The new mirrors on EC2 should be deployed by Monday, just in time for that work item to be completed
<ttx> Nothing critical on other teams plate that we would urge you to consider for the pre-release queue
<ttx> That's about it from server... questions ?
<slangasek> no questions here; anyone else?
<jdstrand> pitti: yes we do
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> ttx: thanks
<ttx> slangasek: cheers -- I'll see some of you guys next week !
<slangasek> ttx: ok, great :)
<slangasek> asac: hi
<asac> slangasek: hi
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> i moved the bugs to SRU
<asac> that we wont get in
<asac> firefox issue is fix committed (or even uploaded)
<pitti> uploaded, yes
<asac> we are working on fix for 528887: maximus "maximus does not give default focus to newly started apps in combination with efl launcher"
 * ogra cant belive how empty that page is
<asac> and i am supposed to poke slangasek about reviewing 563618: util-linux: Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots (omap)
<asac> ;)
<ogra> *g*
<asac> which has a hack that feels more or less safe
<slangasek> yeah. :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> slangasek: you feel llike you can review that?
<slangasek> yes
<asac> or should we prepare more info etc. (not sure what we can do to help)
<asac> ok great
<asac> besides from that all board types are ready for release
<asac> even though we would like to unseed evolution-indicator
<asac> is there a way we can make you more comfortable about it?
<asac> that would be [armel]
 * ogra wasnt able to make up more intresting reasons for justifying a meta upload
<slangasek> not really
<asac> hmm. ok. i am fine to accept it ... we would certainly stand in line and test/verify and whatever you need
<ogra> asac, be very creative ... probably you have better ideas :)
<slangasek> as I said, unseeding things risks uncovering hidden package relationship bugs
 * asac promise to send slangasek a great arm board ;)
<slangasek> which we would have no time to identify and correct
<pitti> asac: [!armel] please :)
<asac> slangasek: understood. i am done
<asac> see ...  noone wants that indicator ;)
<asac> any questions?
<pitti> asac: any specific reason to drop the indicator on armel?
<asac> pitti: because we didnt want evolutoin ;)
<ogra> pitti, it pulls in evo
<asac> we have desktop-webmail
<pitti> ah
<asac> it slipped through :(
<asac> but we will survive for sure
<slangasek> yeah - sound reason, just too late to change for release
<ogra> just bloats the image by 150M or so
<slangasek> no questions here; anything else?
<asac> thanks!!
<asac> lets enjoy release ;)
<ogra> \o/
<asac> and kudos to release team ... hope you get some sleep still
<ogra> and buy beagleboards !
<asac> haha
<slangasek> sleep> keep trying ;)
<slangasek> beagleboards> why, I think I will ;P
<asac> hoho
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<slangasek> asac, ogra: thanks
<slangasek> apw, ogasawara: hi
 * apw pops up
<apw> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  There are only two open work-items for Lucid release and both are non-release related.  The burn-down chart shows us under the line for the first time in living memory:
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04.html
<apw> From the agenda, the kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review blueprint highlighted is now complete.  The final Lucid Kernel Configuration Report was published to ubuntu-devel today.
<apw> The kernels have remained unchanges since last weeks upload.  The Dell suspend overheat issue has had a workaround preventing suspend applied to pm-utils so we are good for release.  The bug itself has now been identified and fixed, with that fix applied to the kernel tree ready for SRU once we are released.  We also are starting to accumulate fixes for several other issues.  It is likely we will aim for a first SRU within a week of release.
<apw> <- done
<slangasek> any questions?
<pitti> apw: please let me know, I'll upload a reverted pm-utils then
<apw> pitti, yes will interlock with you when it goes up
<pitti> (or upload it yourself, then I can review and push teh SRU buttons :) )
<apw> pitti, heh good plan
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<slangasek> pitti: hi
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> Work items: WIs milestoned for final are all done; there are some stragglers for the entire release, I asked people to clean them up; but nothing important left (those were milestoned)
<pitti> RC bugs: The worst ones have been handled, remaining ones are fine for SRU
<pitti> not much else to say today
<pitti> I really strive to have bug 565981 fixed for final
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565981 in xorg-server "[KMS] gem objects not deallocated" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565981
<pitti> (or rather, worked around)
<pitti> other than that I think we're good for the golden release
<Riddell> over in Kubuntu land...
<slangasek> oh, that's the xorg-server upload that's not yet accepted?
<Riddell>  * RC successful, no major issues
<Riddell>  * http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 milestoned bugs down to two
<Riddell>   * Bug:568890	"KDE frontend only allows bootloader installation to the MBR." assigned to ev, shouldn't be hard
<Riddell>   * Bug:567243	"error during OEM setup in French" more of a mystery, needs someone familiar with installer to investigate
<Riddell>  * Milestone removed from
<Riddell>   * Bug:538505	"KDE frontend extremely slow reponsiveness / high CPU usage" agreed annoying but we can live with it
<Riddell>   * Bug:542104	"KRes-migrator runs, starting Akonadi on a clean install" acceptable to live with this too
<pitti> slangasek: yes, it has an additional bug fix which doesn't look obvious, and I suspect it was accidentally included
<pitti> slangasek: I pinged bryceh, but he's still asleep
<Riddell> we didn't get kubuntu netbook ARM images released, freeflying is testing now, hopefully he'll be able to test in time for final release
<slangasek> pitti: I think there was some mention in scrollback of this; will dig it out after the meeting
<pitti> slangasek: the actual patch reversion has been tested very thoroughly, and it's good to go
<ogra> Riddell, in case you want to support omap there, that needs a respin to pick up some essential omap fixes
 * pitti cheers the community for great feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/GEMLeak
<ogra> Riddell, only entered on the 22nd
<Riddell> ogra: yes it'll get rebuilt before final for sure
<ogra> oki
<ogra> just wanted to warn
<ogra> beagle users are just more likely to find and to be willing to help testing :)
<slangasek> anything else?
 * pitti done
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<davidbarth> hi
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: hello
<davidbarth> i don't have much to report this week
<slangasek> I would worry if you did. :)
<davidbarth> we have an update already uploaded for the sound indicator, a minor bug causing issues with pan/mono/stereo when using the slider
<davidbarth> and cody also made a 1-line gtk patch to solve an issue with the bt indicator
<davidbarth> nothing major
<slangasek> sounds good.  there's one outstanding WI on a high-prio blueprint, dx-lucid-application-indicator:
<slangasek> [agateau] document the dbusmenu protocol: TODO
<davidbarth> we keep monitoring incoming bugs daily, but it seems we're on track for a solid LTS
<slangasek> doesn't need to be done before release, but is that on the radar somewhere else?
<davidbarth> and the reminder, yep ;)
<davidbarth> that's on the radar for maverick and uds
<davidbarth> so i guess i'll just postpone to get rid of that one and clean your list
<seb128> davidbarth, where is the one line gtk change?
<davidbarth> that's it for me
<davidbarth> seb128: hmm, let me find the link
<seb128> davidbarth, can you get a gtk ubuntu task open?
<seb128> davidbarth, so we can work on a sru for it
<davidbarth> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth/+bug/558841
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 558841 in gnome-bluetooth "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> davidbarth, thanks
<slangasek> any other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks!
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> I don't have a detailed report this week, we're just playing bug whack-a-mole; the rate of inflow from RC has been pleasingly low though
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> now that several wide-blocking issues have been fixed, we're seeing attempts to use some of the weirder installation use cases
<cjwatson> so there are some edge cases with things like raid and iscsi that have come up
<slangasek> yes, I was happy to see those
<slangasek> it means the iscsi optional test cases are getting exercised :)
<cjwatson> indeed so
<cjwatson> there's a new KDE/ubiquity boot loader configuration bug that's being worked
<cjwatson> and you probably know more about the plymouth/mountall cluster than I do
<slangasek> there are a goodly number of plymouth, mountall fixes staged; all blocked for upload by the plymouth side of the fix for bug #559761
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 559761 in plymouth "mountall needs to flush plymouth message queue before emitting upstart events" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/559761
<cjwatson> other than that, and the OOo pre-depends chaos, I think we're in good shape, though Monday may be a little frenetic in London
<slangasek> I don't know that I'll get to it today - if not, I'll work on it on the plane and should have an upload ready by Monday
<cjwatson> oh, Michael has been working hard on getting the support-timeframe stuff landed in LP, and I believe that's now in
<cjwatson> Package: ubiquity
<cjwatson> Supported: 3y
<Riddell> cjwatson: what's the KDE/ubiquity boot loader configuration bug?
<cjwatson> he did an extensive review with the security folks this week, so the final WI should be all but done
<cjwatson> Riddell: bug 568890, shtylman's on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568890 in ubiquity "KDE frontend only allows bootloader installation to the MBR." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568890
<Riddell> hmm, kubuntu-desktop still says Supported: 18m
<slangasek> I'm not getting bug #553745 by Monday, but I believe that's a plymouth segfault on shutdown so should stop being a hot issue now that apport is off by default
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<slangasek> (would like to fix it, but there was a discussion with upstream that seems to have petered out)
<slangasek> mvo: ^^ did you know kubuntu seems to have the wrong supported: value still?
<slangasek> mvo: I guess we hadn't marked the seeds on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest, sorry
<Riddell> I've spoken to mvo about this before so he should be aware of the issue
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> cjwatson: anything else?
<cjwatson> does the OOo pre-dep cluster need additional help at this point?
<pitti> mvo mentioned that he wanted to finish some automatic upgrade tests before we accept it
<cjwatson> ah yes, I saw that in #-release scrollback
<cjwatson> other than that, I think everything is good
<cjwatson> please shout loudly about anything that looks like an installer blocker - at this point we may not see it asynchronously in time
<slangasek> bug #552560 is still blocked on the soyuz side, it seems; I think the software-center change should be deferred to SRU now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 552560 in soyuz "Please change "Origin" and "Label" in the Release file on archive.canonical.com" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/552560
<cjwatson> it's also not nearly so critical to have the partner Release file static for lucid from release
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I'll bump the s-c task
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> Nothing new to report really.
<jdstrand> The recent gnome-keyring issue was discussed and handled wonderfully by pitti.
<jdstrand> as mentioned, mvo and our team have been making sure that maintenance-check is in good shape (thanks mvo!)
<jdstrand> Install audits are ongoing. Assuming nothing startling comes out of that, we are ready for release.
<jdstrand> We will start targeting lucid-security for new non-critical security issues
 * jdstrand is done
<ScottK> There's a vlc upload in the queue that (among other things) has a security fix in it.
<ScottK> It'd be good if someone could carve out time for a review.
<jdstrand> ScottK: what kind of review are we talking about? is it not pure bugfix?
<ScottK> jdstrand: I'm told it's bugfix, but it should be reviewed by somone who knows more about reading the code than me.
<jdstrand> kees is on community this week, so I'll ask him about it and I'll process it if it's ok
<slangasek> any other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> slangasek: sure! :)
<ScottK> Hello
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> We've still got a slow, but steady trickle of worthwhile uploads coming in.
<ScottK> My thought though is to hold off until the language pack export gets built down.
<ScottK> We'll have more than enough time to build any Universe stuff starting on Monday.
<slangasek> fair
<ScottK> Will someone be around Sunday/Monday who can process syncs?
 * pitti <- Monday
<ScottK> I've been encouraging people not to do direct uploads with pitti's script when a sync will do.
<james_w> I'll probably be around for at least one round of syncs on Sunday
<ScottK> OK.
<slangasek> Lucas's latest rebuild results were nice to see, > 25% of FTBFS resolved since the 10th
<ScottK> Great.
<slangasek> not perfect, but nice
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> I didn't get a chance to dig into the results yet though.
<slangasek> I probably won't be available Sunday at all, but Monday yes
<ScottK> Also there are a fair number of removal bugs waiting archive attention
<ScottK> I'd prefer if we could do those sooner rather that later so they don't get forgotten
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> That's all I've got.
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> [AOB]
<cjwatson> language packs> the extra i386 buildd should help
<ScottK> Definitely
<cjwatson> translation imports are still backed up to the 17th
<cjwatson> but there's probably not much we can do about that
<ScottK> Bug 496093 could stand having someone who understands wireless issues sort through it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 496093 in linux "[lucid] rt2860 frequently fails to connect to mixed mode WPA/WPA2 secured wireless networks" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/496093
<ScottK> I'm not even sure how to write the release note at the moment.
<slangasek> one thing I would ask is that those who aren't already up to their eyeballs in fixing critical bugs take some time to look over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential to help make sure we haven't overlooked anything that should be milestoned
<slangasek> asac: do you have any time to triage that?
<slangasek> if not, I'll give it a shot, at least for the release notes side
<ScottK> Someone ought to at least tell them "No, we aren't going to include a second, hacked kernel on the CD to fix this"
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> heh, quite
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:16.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<slangasek> have a good weekend :)
<cjwatson> travel safe
<james_w> you too
<apw> see you all
<pitti> thanks all
 * pitti cd /de/Munich
<ogra> oh, you are all going to the london holiday ? :)
<jdstrand> o/
 * ogra heard the weather is nice, enjoy
<cjwatson> yes, nice high pressure keeping the ash off us
<ogra> heh
<slangasek> :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-24
<giampy> ciao
<giampy> !list
<ubottu> This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg ubottu !bot Â»
<asdfMAN> any UF mods happen to be here?
<asdfMAN> anyone know how I can add something to the forum agenda>
<asdfMAN> ?
<asdfMAN> anyone awake>
<pleia2> asdfMAN: maybe try #ubuntuforums ?
<asdfMAN> ok, I'll try that as well
<asdfMAN> ... would it be http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntuforums
<asdfMAN> ?
<nhandler> asdfMAN: Type: /join #ubuntuforums
<asdfMAN> yeah, that worked
<nhandler> asdfMAN: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda is also the Forum Council Agenda
<asdfMAN> you know how to add stuff there?
<asdfMAN> I have some questions about it as well.  I'm not available at the regular meeting times
<nhandler> asdfMAN: You will want to talk to the Forum Council members if you are not able to attend the meeting. And you can edit it by going to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda?action=edit&editor=text
<asdfMAN> anyone know if they'd accept a typed file that explains everything?
<asdfMAN> ok, thanks for that like
<asdfMAN> any idea how to contact the council members?
<asdfMAN> "You are not allowed to edit this page." :'(
<asdfMAN> hello jack
<asdfMAN> you wouldn't happen to be a forum council member, would you? ...
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-04-25
<Smex> nite folks.
<abbra_kadabbra> any forum council members happen to be on?
<abbra_kadabbra> I sent a mail to the mailing list but the spam blocker quarantined it.  I just want to know if it finally went through
<abbra_kadabbra> ping
<persia> This channel generally only has traffic for scheduled meetings.  You'd do better to find a more specific channel (e.g. #ubuntuforums), or wait for the folks you want to have their scheduled meeting.
<abbra_kadabbra> thanks
 * Pici yawns
<jussi> o/
<topyli> hi
<jussi> have we a tsimpson?
<guntbert> thats infectious Pici
<topyli> tsimpson was doubtful yesterday
<jussi> shall we start in any case? we have 3 of us...
<jussi> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is jussi.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jussi> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi> [topic] #ubuntu-release-party access list
<MootBot> New Topic:  #ubuntu-release-party access list
<jussi> ikonia: about?
<Pici> I don't think he needs to be here for this one.
<jussi> right, so someone want to summarise for the record?
<Pici> There are a large number of people on the access list in u-r-p, it was crazy last time around.
<jussi> So remove the @ubuntu/member access?
<Pici> Its open to ubuntu/member/* right now.  Lots of those people are not normally operators
<Pici> (laggin here)
<persia> Was there significant abuse of that right, or just a crazy number of operators?
<Pici> "The last party channel was a very rowdy channel and a strong portition of the ubuntu member cloak holders where not mature enough to manage the channel without playing silly games. I understand the channel is supposed to be a fun place but kicking people for fun and placing bans in a channel is not part of that fun. I would suggest adding the core channel operators to the list and removing the membership cloak access."
<Pici> * from the agenda proposal page.
<topyli> tsimpson suggested restricting it to core channel ops, since we have no core ops yet
<jussi> [idea]I would suggest adding the core channel operators to the list and removing the membership cloak access (ikonia)
<MootBot> IDEA received: I would suggest adding the core channel operators to the list and removing the membership cloak access (ikonia)
<jussi> I think thats a good idea, basically replicating the -ops +v list with +o instead.
<topyli> ah, same suggestion :)
<topyli> nhandler said he has a script to copy an access list from one channel to another. this would help if we decide to go that way
<jussi> topyli: yes, and then make sure that everyone is op, not just +v.
<Pici> Sounds good to me.
<topyli> yeah
<jussi> ok, lets vote on that...
<topyli> question
<Pici> answer.
<topyli> i haven't been to the channel in a few years, too old
<topyli> is that enough ops for the channel?
<jussi> topyli: I think so.
<jussi> if its not, we can revisit the idea.
<Daviey> I'm actually more concerned about the point that Ubuntu Members haven't been acting in a proper way previously.
<topyli> jussi, ok, i'm going to believe you :)
<Pici> I think we should allow for common sense when adding ops on-the-fly
<jussi> [vote] add the core channel operators to the list (#ubuntu-ops +V list) and removing the membership cloak access
<MootBot> Please vote on:  add the core channel operators to the list (#ubuntu-ops +V list) and removing the membership cloak access.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Pici> Daviey: Its more that they're not used to operator duties.
<Pici> and the problems that come along with that.
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<ikonia> jussi: yes
<jussi> awesome. now then:
<jussi> [topic] Consider deactivating/re-purposing the ~ubuntu-irc team on launchpad
<MootBot> New Topic:  Consider deactivating/re-purposing the ~ubuntu-irc team on launchpad
<jussi> [idea] As for ~ubuntu-irc, I haven't seen any good ideas on how to re-purpose it right now, so I would propose removing all members, making it restricted, and adjusting the description to "disable" it for now (nhandler)
<MootBot> IDEA received:  As for ~ubuntu-irc, I haven't seen any good ideas on how to re-purpose it right now, so I would propose removing all members, making it restricted, and adjusting the description to "disable" it for now (nhandler)
<topyli> i have heard anyone come up with a viable use for it so far
<jussi> so, thoughts on this?
<topyli> have not, even
<ikonia> could it not be used for irc related dicussion ?
<jussi> ikonia: the LP group?
<ikonia> oh, sorry the actual group, miss-read
<jussi> :)
<jussi> Im with nhandler here.
<Pici> I'd like to see it eventually turn into our irc-community participants group. Since we currently don't have any way of quantifying that.
<ikonia> Pici: could you expand on that a little for me please ?
<jussi> I dont think we need to come up with exactly what it needs to become in the future, but just that for now it should be disabled.
<Pici> ikonia: Its a bit vauge, but we don't have a group right now that includes people in our communtiy that partipate that are not operators.
<persia> Pici: So a container for the polity that e.g. votes to confirm IRCC?
<ikonia> Pici: perfect, thank you
<jussi> Yeah, we are working on the membership thing, but that still excludes a lot.
<Pici> persia: yes.
<Pici> jussi: Yes, but its a start.  We have nothing now.
<topyli> Pici, i like that
<Pici> Besides operators.
<jussi> yes
<persia> You might just set to be a moderated team, disable anyone not in ~ubuntumembers, and process the join requests e.g. weekly based on membership in ~ubuntumembers.
<jussi> ok, so the thought is that we disable it for now and think about what it should become, perhaps with some public discussion on the list?
<persia> But I'd recommend checking with the CC about polity definition: there may be reasons to poll the entirety of ~ubuntumembers, even though some folk are rarely on IRC.
<jussi> persia: the CC dont want us polling all of them
<Pici> I don't see value in closing it and deactivating its members.
 * persia stops attempting to get folk to repeat history
<jussi> Pici: why?
<persia> For what it's worth, I agree with Pici: I think that's needlessly disruptive if the purpose remains undefined.
<Pici> Agreed.
<jussi> thing is, for me, we need to create a clean slate. Its currently confusing to people - I had someone PM just yesterday (ne op in a loco) asking if they should join it.
<Pici> jussi: Everyone who is in it right now should be in it if we turn it into a 'community users' group.
<topyli> i guess the current members of the group would be included in any larger group we imagine
<Pici> If we aren't sure what to do with it at this juncture, then I suggest that we change it's description to say that.
<jussi> ok, so perhaps not cleaning it out, but putting something in the description?
<jussi> lol
<Pici> :)
<jussi> great minds
<jussi> ok, Id agree with that.
<topyli> "Ubuntu IRC thingy"
<jussi> [vote] Change the description of ~ubuntu-irc to reflect its current state of disuse, think about the future use of it.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Change the description of ~ubuntu-irc to reflect its current state of disuse, think about the future use of it..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<jussi> ok, great. next item:
<jussi> [topic] Create policy on external logging of channels (ircanswers.com)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Create policy on external logging of channels (ircanswers.com)
<Pici> Can anyone give some backstory on what this is.  I only caught part of the conversation in u-irc.
<jussi> So, I think as long as a party requests it and is not malicious, there is no reason to say no.
<jussi> Pici: go look at the url ;)
<Pici> jussi: It looks like a metabot-like thing.
<Pici> but on a website
<jussi> Pici: it basically is metabot transcribed to the web
<jussi> :D
<Pici> jussi: stop that!
<jussi> hehe
<topyli> the ircanswers.com owner/maintainer realised he should ask permission to use our logs, and did so
<jussi> yes, because freenode klined him
<Pici> oh?
<ikonia> why should we allow 3rd party bots to log in #ubuntu channels ?
<topyli> we have a precedent from 2007, when irseek was discussed
<jussi> ikonia: why not?
<ikonia> jussi: because ubuntu logs the channels publicly, those logs are available, why invite others
<ikonia> those are the official logs - use them or do not, but having more and more bots to log channels opens the door
<ikonia> why would we allow some, and not others
<jussi> the thing is, whether they pull from own logs or the web logs makes no difference, except a bit of server loat, no?
<topyli> ikonia, for arguments aready used in a similar matter, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/IRSeekDiscussion
<ikonia> we provide official logs - they are there for public use
<ikonia> ok - so I disagree with that argument totally
<Pici> ikonia: why?
<ikonia> Pici: why can they not use the logs we provide, why do they have to hav a bot
<ikonia> have even
<ikonia> the precidence is set, if we allow ircseek we have to allow others
<ikonia> what makes them special
<topyli> i guess their bot parses the logs nicely for their use. who knows, that's their business
<ikonia> I thought one of the reason we provide logs is to stop this sort of argument
<topyli> ikonia, we will allow others
<ikonia> topyli: I have no issue with them parsing the logs, but not running a bot
<ikonia> topyli: why ?
<jussi> ikonia: we want to advance ubuntu, not hold it back. I dont see anything about this that is bad for our community?
<ikonia> topyli: where it the line, how many ?
<ikonia> jussi: why would this not advance ubuntu,
<ikonia> why would the policy of use the official logs be a holding back of ubuntu ?
<ikonia> from trusted sources
<Pici> ikonia: Why is having other people log #ubuntu an issue?
 * persia notes that sometimes the official logbots miss a couple days in one channel or another
<topyli> a trusted source is no guarantee of the integrity of the service. whether they use our logs or their own makes no difference
<ikonia> Pici: because you could end up with a channel of bots
<ikonia> Pici: there is a no unofficial bot policy in ubuntu, and it works well
<jussi> The fact is, that we can say, yes, you can have your bot there, as long as you ask nicely and promise not to be nasty, or the person can go grab logs from canonical and eat bandwidth. this way, we know who is doing it.
<ikonia> Pici: how do you know what these bots that log do apart from log ?
<ikonia> jussi: no you don't know who's doing it or what else it's doing
<Pici> jussi: +1
<ikonia> jussi: the canonical logs are there to BE parsed
<jussi> ikonia: as long as the bot/irssi+script/whatever is silent, how does that harm us? if we do it this way, we know which bots are logging and we can keep an eye on them
<ikonia> jussi: I disagree, but I'm not going to die if you impliment this. It just seems to go %100 turn around on the no official bots policy to "all silent bots welcome"
<jussi> we also find out more about different ubuntu sites, and we make it easier for people to spread ubuntu.
<ikonia> how are we interested in different ubuntu sites
<ikonia> that's nothing to do with irc council
<jussi> ikonia: no, silent bots welcome with permission.
<Pici> ikonia: no, its "silent bots welcome as long as we know about them"
<jussi> lol
<Pici> o...
<ikonia> how are these bots to be tracked ?
<jussi> We can use the wiki for a list of approved logging bots.
<guntbert> I'm more comfortable with ikonia's approach -- everybody can parse the official logs
<ikonia> I assume we'll need a tracking page, with bot owner contact details and rules such as must be authenticated against freenode ?
<Pici> guntbert: But that way we don't know who is parsing those logs.  This way we do.
<jussi> ikonia: we already have such a page for official bots
<jussi> ikonia: so replicating that for extrnal logging bots wont be too hard.
<ikonia> jussi: yes, but I'm talking about making that more official, with rules such as must be authenticated against freenode, must have an active email account etc, crterial
<jussi> or even just adding a section
<ikonia> critera
<ikonia>  jussi the current approved bots are trusted, these new ones will not be, hence why I'm suggesting rules and guidelines
<jussi> ikonia: yes, thats what I was thinking also. this is about creating the poolicy for that.
<guntbert> Pici: yes, but what good wolud that knowledge do? is there man/womanpower to check and recheck and look at the outcomes?
<guntbert> *would
<topyli> we can deal with someone asking permission, checking what they're doing, making sure they satisfy freenode's guidelines and saying 'ok'
<jussi> I think we need to specify that any logs taken need to go into the public domain.
<ikonia> why ?
<Pici> There isn't any manpower being wasted on the bots that we do know about.
<ikonia> what is the point of allowing bots to log and then put in the public domain the same as the offical logs?  once they log the data they can do what they want with it
<jussi> and we need to of course run this by canonicals legal dept
<ikonia> again - why ? we make the logs public
<Pici> I don't see any reason to say anything about the logs themselves.  They are already in the public domain.
<ikonia> exactly, suggesting I have to public logs when I may want them for a private application development test is wrong
<Pici> jussi: They're public domain, that means that anyone can do with them as they please. They are not being released under a license with specific terms.
<jussi> right
<topyli> we can't demand anything regarding the logs
<Pici> So we cannot tell Joe Botowner that he needs to release his logs under the public-domain as well.
<Amaranth> What channels will they be allowed to log?
<Pici> Amaranth: good question.
<Pici> I say only the core support channels.
<Amaranth> Everything? Everything but -offtopic? Only #ubuntu? etc
<jussi> I say the same conditions as irseek
<Pici> Plus #ubuntu-meeting
<Pici> s/meeting/classroom/
<topyli> Amaranth, the irseek decision page says: 1) channels with 'UbuntuIrcCouncil as contact, 2) already publically logged
<Amaranth> irseek was only allowed to log channels ubuntubot is in then, right?
<jussi> This initial permission extends only to channels satisfying the following conditions:
<jussi> Channel has 'ubuntuirccouncil' as contact with chanserv.
<jussi> Channel is already logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com by 'ubuntulog'
<jussi> The IRSeek bot must also satisfy the freenode guidelines, mainly it should not be torified and should be easily identifiable by nickname.
<jussi> Amaranth: correct
<topyli> ok now you're doing it to me too
<Pici> gag
<Pici> er, hah
<Amaranth> hehe
<Pici> or gag too, thats fitting.
<ScottK> IRC logs are not public domain.
<Amaranth> Don't we delay the logs though?
<ScottK> At least in the US.
<ikonia> ScottK: how can they not be, ubuntu posts them on a public website with no terms of use?
<persia> I believe they are protected as public speech in most jurisdictions, which typically allows arbitrary use of content if the speaker was aware they were being recorded.
<Amaranth> ikonia: That makes them "All rights reserved"
<Pici> They aren't posted to a website in the US...
 * persia could be mistaken
<ikonia> Pici: ahh, so the domain location is key
 * Pici shrugs
<ScottK> Hard to say, but in the US it's almost impossible for something created since Mickey Mouse to be public domain.
<Pici> I am not a lawyer./
<ScottK> It really just applies to a narrow category of works created by the government.
<persia> Pici: The only places that don't default to "All Rights Reserved" are Nicaragua and Honduras, and they default to "Most Rights Reserved".
<topyli> there's an extensive literature on public mailing lists, forum posts and irc logs, which i don't encourage anyone to read. in a nutshell, the consensus is those are public domain
<jussi> but in anycase, we can consult canonical's legal eagles before actioning anything if need be.
<persia> topyli: The consensus is that the are publically available on open fora.  Avoid saying "public domain" as it has a specific meaning which may not apply.
<ScottK> topyli: What persia said.
<Amaranth> So what if they put up logs faster than ubuntulog?
<ScottK> I don't see that ubuntulog has any more or less rights to what I say on IRC than anyone else.
<jussi> Amaranth: is there an issue there? do we delay the logs for any reason but practicality?
<Amaranth> jussi: I don't know, that's my question, really
<ScottK> If it's OK for ubuntulog to publish logs of what I say on IRC, then it's OK for anyone to do so.
<jussi> Amaranth: afaik, its just that the cron job is hourly.
<ikonia> maybe council should vote on concpet, then make rules later
<topyli> so we take down our logs and start asking users to sign an agreement before publishing logs on ubuntulogs.org?
<Pici> No
<topyli> i didn't think so
<persia> topyli: Check the ToS of freenode: I expect it covers the implicit agreement that comments may be logged.
<jussi> yeah, the motd has something iirc
<persia> (if it doesn't, that's a flaw, as lots of things that pretend to be humans log)
<ScottK> But once again, ubuntulog doesn't have any special rights over any other logger
<Pici> I say we replace the entrymsg with something that says that your logs may be published by the entities listed at $SOMEURL
<jussi> ScottK: freenode says that people cant log unless they ask permission first
<ScottK> jussi: That isn't what I said.
<Pici> And at $SOMEURL, we list the people that have asked and have been granted permission.
<jussi> ScottK: so yes, it does, it has permission.
<ScottK> Mostly what I said is that the specific term public domain doesn't apply.
<jussi> Pici: that makes sense.
<ScottK> Pici: What gives you the right to give permission on my behalf?
<ikonia> council, how about beyond logging bots, bots that are silent, such as the bridge bots of late, that have bridged #ubuntu to other irc networks ?
<topyli> ScottK, i'll use another term once i think of one :)
<ScottK> topyli: Good.
<Pici> ScottK: If you can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
<Pici> freenode's motd states that users should be informed of public logging by a channel entry message or channel topic.  I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that this says that we are allowed to publically log channels.
<ScottK> Pici: Mostly I think that if you try to come up with rules about who can log and what a log bot is, it's a minefield.
<ScottK> Pici: Sounds like as long as such an entry message is present.
<ikonia> ScottK: that was part of my point, easier to say, no bpts
<ikonia> bots
<ScottK> Of course that's just taking the logs.
<ikonia> just maintain official bots
<ScottK> The matter of publishing them and redistributing them is another question.
<ikonia> I am interested to see views on the bots that do more than log, such as the bridge bots ?
<ScottK> ikonia: So when I'm not connected to my quassel core, is it a bot?
<jussi> - By connecting to freenode you indicate that you have read
<jussi> - and agree to adhere to our policies and procedures as per
<jussi> - the website (http://freenode.net). We would like to remind
<jussi> - you that unauthorized public logging of channels on the
<jussi> - network is prohibited. Public channel logging should only
<jussi> - take place where the channel owner(s) has requested this
<jussi> - and users of the channel are all made aware (if you are
<jussi> - publically logging your channel, you may wish to keep a
<jussi> - notice in topic and perhaps as a on-join message).
<ikonia> ScottK: no more less than my /away log
<jussi> Sorry for the paste, but its useful.
<jussi> ScottK: its about publishing the logs.
<ScottK> Right, so how is a bot different?
<persia> That's the bit that protects freenode in jurisdictions that grant protection to public speech.  As noted, it's best practice to indicate a channel is logged, if the logs are to be published, as the lack of informed consent makes it unacceptable in most jurisdictions.
<ikonia> ScottK: bots can do more, such as the bridge bots I'm refercing to
<ikonia> ScottK: I have no issue with logging, it's public anyway, I'm more intereted in control of the bots and what "else" they do
<Pici> ikonia: you're the only one discussing that though...
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> So, technically, it's essential to have notice in every channel in which the log bot is that it's logging each user.
<persia> (in many places)
<ikonia> Pici: if it's a non-valid point, I can leave it
<persia> ubuntulog may not currently comply as much as one would like.
<Pici> persia: Those should already be in place.
<jussi> yes, if they you nice one that isnt, please let us know.
<jussi> persia: remember the xubuntu is logged factoid request? ;)
<persia> Pici: I know of counter-cases, but yes, *should*.  Point stands, that there should be a documented place that lists the loggers, which then gives them the special rights that ScottK asks about.  Other loggers souldn't be there.
<Pici> persia: I agree, we should create that.
<jussi> persia: exactly what we said 20 mins ago :)
<persia> Yes.
<jussi> ok, so a vote?
<ikonia> jussi: before you vote, I'd like to know if this is just for logging bots, or any silent bot
<Pici> er, this has always been about logging.
<jussi> [vote] Public log bots be allowed with a set of conditions and list of bots documented on a wiki page
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Public log bots be allowed with a set of conditions and list of bots documented on a wiki page.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<ikonia> ok, thank you
<Pici> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Pici. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<jussi> right, so who wants to get at least the bareboes of such a wiki page up?
<topyli> could copy a skeleton from the irseek discussion page
<jussi> yeah
<persia> Might I suggest one additional rule: that channel operators are responsible for ensuring that public notice is provided if they allow the logbots (including ubuntulog) to enter their channels?
<topyli> making sure the topic includes "channel is logged" would be good
<Pici> persia: I believe that is already present on the wiki page regarding creating new channels.
<Pici> We should double check though
<jussi> yeah, i think Pici is right
<persia> Pici: Yes, but it's not part of the logbot request process, which is the gap.
<jussi> ok, anything else?
 * persia knows lots of folk who created channels in the namespace who have only a passing famliarity with the guide
<Pici> Who is doing the u-r-p stuff? That channel should probably be opened soon/now.
<Pici> I've already heard a few questions about when it is supposed to open
<jussi> Pici: you volunteering? or did nhandler say he could do it?
<Pici> jussi: I'd be happy to do it in nhandler's absense./
<gnomefreak> IRCC meeting?
<nhandler> I can do it Pici
<nhandler> Sorry for missing the meeting
<jussi> gnomefreak: almost done
<Pici> gnomefreak: just finishing.
<jussi> lol
<Pici> . . .
<topyli> nhandler, just in time for volunteering for tasks!
<nhandler> :)
<jussi> I need to go. so Ill end the meeting, but feel free to sort stuff as needed
<nhandler> I also noticed no action for updating ~ubuntu-irc. I can do that if nobody wants
<Pici> nhandler: We had discussed copying the access list from -ops (those with +v) to u-r-p but to +o
<nhandler> I saw
<jussi> [endmeeting]
<Pici> nhandler: Will your script do that? if not I'll do it manually.
<nhandler> I can script that to save time
<Pici> okay :)
<nhandler> Pici: With a slight modification it should
<jussi> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:12.
<jussi> laters all
<gnomefreak> while i have everyone here. any chance we can keep +1 open or at least open it when toolchain lands?
<topyli> thanks gusy
<ikonia> gnomefreak: yes please
<nhandler> [action] nhandler to update release party access list
<jussi> oh +1 to re-open when toolchain lands.
<Pici> I say make it +im until the toolchain lands on... the 6th is it?
<jussi> Pici: +1. now im gone
<Pici> k :)
<nhandler> I am fine with that Pici
<gnomefreak> its win 3 for me and i know first 20 channels so it screws me uup :(
<nhandler> Who wants the ~ubuntu-irc action?
<Pici> nhandler: do you need to clear out the current access list, or will your script take care of that?
<Pici> rather, need me to clear it out.
<nhandler> Pici: I can take care of that
<Pici> okay :)
<topyli> i'll create the bot wiki thingy
<topyli> we'll then hack it to pieces and remove my big fat "DRAFT" header
<nhandler> topyli: Maybe just add a section to the already existing bot page
<nhandler> [action] topyli to make bot list on wiki
<topyli> nhandler, good idea, it's not that big
<nhandler> [action] nhandler to update ~ubuntu-irc
<nhandler> Who is doing minutes/updating wiki? jussi ?
<Pici> I suppose.
<topyli> traditionally, perks of the chair isn't it?
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-18
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> HI
<kees> \o
<mdeslaur> hello
<micahg> o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:12. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> micahg: you had an action item surrounding chromium, and in particular the NEWS file
<micahg> jdstrand: yeah, fta included one in the update
<jdstrand> micahg: what is the status of that update?
<micahg> jdstrand: maverick uploaded to PPA, lucid will be uploaded today, I hope to test maverick today, not sure about lucid
<jdstrand> ok
<micahg> not sure as in either Wed night or hand off to someone else most likely
<jdstrand> micahg: keep us posted. that update has been too long in coming. too bad google couldn't fix the password issue. we waited for nothing...
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I did an apparmor upload and will be testing today
<jdstrand> I have a kdenetwork update that should go out today (and another old pending one)
<jdstrand> (it won't go out today, I just need to work on it
<jdstrand> )
<jdstrand> bisect two natty bugs, follow-up on various other bugs. Will try to get to it this week...
<jdstrand> I will be unavailable on Wed and Thu this week, due to a managers meeting in Austin
<jdstrand> I'll be on irc, but you know, it'll be 'conference-stype irc'
<jdstrand> pick up something if have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, this week I'm on triage. I've almost finished getting my inbox down to 0 which is great.
<kees> there are some bits of work still to be done with the USN database merge (clean up some bits in ancient USNs, then get losas to do a full refresh)
<kees> will do some iso testing hopefully
<kees> I was wondering if we needed to coordinate our qrt testing?
<kees> anyway, I guess that can be a later topic. was going to try to sort through some of the kernel CVEs that are in the tracker still as "pending" but never went to "released", etc.
<kees> that's it from me.
<jdstrand> I was planning on adding an apparmor test to all the stuff where we ship an enforcing profile, like I did recently with openldap
<jdstrand> so I can take those
<jdstrand> and test-apparmor.py (should be fiddling with it today)
<jdstrand> ok, mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> So, I've just release postfix updates
<mdeslaur> and I have a few more updates ready for QA (need to find a way to test them...)
<mdeslaur> once they're done, I'll do some iso testing, and will go down the list
<mdeslaur> that,s it from me!
<mdeslaur> oh, and I'm on patch piloting duty this week IIRC
<jdstrand> oh
<jdstrand> so am I
<mdeslaur> that's it from me...who's next? micahg, you're it
<micahg> so, I have a short week this week (am officially off today as well), will be testing mozilla updates for release next tuesday and if time permits, webkit cve triage
<micahg> and chromium depending on what happens with the lucid upload
<micahg> that's it for me I think
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I'm working on php5 (still preparing patches) and ia32-libs (need to do a bit of testing)
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> usn microsite is up and running well, and our processes have been updated accordingly. There are a few small bugs, and the site can be seen at https://launchpad.net/usn-website
<jdstrand> err, the project site can be seen there
<jdstrand> the actual site is at www.ubuntu.com/usn like always
<jdstrand> one thing we need to do (and that I've done in the past but probably won't have time to do this time) is go through open natty CVEs in UCT and make sure they are accurate
<jdstrand> I have no idea what state they are in, but they are usually a bit out of date
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you mean the out-of-sync ones?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: yes those, and ones where a sync fixed it but uct wasn't updated
<mdeslaur> ah, last week, the out-of-sync ones were just a couple of kernel things
<mdeslaur> the others I took care of
<jdstrand> ok good
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks! :)
<mdeslaur> not sure about the sync ones, didn't take a look
<micahg> I think almost all the webkit ones will be closed when I'm done in natty at least
<jdstrand> kees: since you are triager, would you mind giving them a look? ^
<micahg> (i.e. already fixed, just need verification)
<jdstrand> kees: don't feel you have to do all of them, the triager of the week can do it next week and the week after too
<kees> jdstrand: "them" being kernel? yeah
<jdstrand> kees: "them" being updating things where syncs
<jdstrand> syncs fixed vulns
<jdstrand> I know I tried to do them as I noticed them, but I'm sure we are a bit out of date
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, if it's in the upstream: tag already, it'll get caught as part of my standard updates this week
<kees> jdstrand: do you mean actually running through changelog contents?
<jdstrand> kees: esp for things in main, I'd like to see that natty is correct accounting-wise before release. this isn't all on you, but something for the triagers to do over the next couple weeks
<jdstrand> kees: does that make more sense?
 * sbeattie is willing to help out
 * jdstrand is too, next week when he is on triage
<kees> jdstrand: gotcha, sure. I'll take a look
<jdstrand> kees: awesome thanks. and again, feel free to hand off stuff if there is a bunch
 * jdstrand doesn't know the status otoh
<kees> jdstrand: I'll just work what I can get through :)
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> that's all I have
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<kees> should we have a formalized sign-up list for running qrt through beta2?
<jdstrand> kees: sounds reasonable-- just in a wiki page somewhere?
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, that might be simplest. I'll get it set up.
<jdstrand> kees: sounds great :)
<jdstrand> thanks everyone for coming!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:49.
<kees> thanks jdstrand!~
<sbeattie> thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-19
<dholbach> hey
<popey> ola
<Technoviking> hello
<dholbach> I pinged mako, mdke, pleia2 and sabdfl too, but I'm not sure who of them can show up today
<popey> persia?
<dholbach> has continued internet problems
<popey> ok
<dholbach> ok, let's start then
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:02. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [topic] state of sounder@
<MootBot> New Topic:  state of sounder@
<lifeless> ok, not the asiapac meeting ;)
<popey> ok, this is mine
<popey> I sent a proposal to the sounder list to have it shutdown and asked for feedback
<popey> feedback can be seen here:- http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/
<popey> along with a short prologue
<dholbach> thanks for driving this, popey
<popey> now, there were a couple of comments on the list that 11 UTC is inconvenient for some list members to attend this meeting
<popey> so I didn't put a time on the wiki, so we could potentially  discuss at both so more can attend
<dholbach> I think that's reasonable
<popey> The overall feeling seems to be "don't shut it down"
<dholbach> [agreed] leave sounder@ item on the agenda for next CC meeting (3rd May)
<MootBot> AGREED received:  leave sounder@ item on the agenda for next CC meeting (3rd May)
<dholbach> hello sabdfl
<popey> hi sabdfl
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/ for sabdfl
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/ for sabdfl
<sabdfl> howdy
<popey> Samuel did some analysis of the most recent ~20 posts to the list to see if my assertion that people seem to use it for arguing the moral toss held up
<sabdfl> the moral toss?
<popey> most threads seem civil, but a few push the boundaries quite a bit (religion/politics mostly)
<dholbach> if you want to do an analysis I doubt that the last ~20 posts are indicative
<popey> sorry, discussing stuff which seems to mostly result from personal opinion
<dholbach> it'd be much more interesting to revisit the lists early beginnings and see how it evolved from there
<popey> not really related to ubuntu
<popey> well, it's certainly had a bit of a rollercoaster
<popey> periods of intensive developer discussion, quiet periods in 2008, then more active over the last year or so
<popey> The list has 396 subscribers as of today.
<popey> of those I think about 10 are set to nomail
<popey> and according to Samuels analysis, about 20-25 people actively contribute to the list.
<sabdfl> i don't buy the argument that folk who have ubuntu in *common* also need a place to discuss things they almost certainly *don't*, like politics and religion
<dholbach> unfortunately have we heard a number of complaints about the tone and long periods of irrelevance of the content of the list
<sabdfl> both are important human subjects, but i don't see that the Ubuntu project can or should provide an effective forum
<sabdfl> i don't buy the safety valve argument
<dholbach> I unsubscribed some months ago when the quality of discussions was dwindling
<sabdfl> i think this idea leads to a pressure cooker instead, where folks feel that Ubuntu has to take care of all aspects of their lives, and they end up becoming caged animals
<popey> very few ubuntu developers actually take part in conversations there dholbach
<sabdfl> i think it would be perfectly acceptable to say "look, the ubuntu project is about delivering high quality free software to the world on a particular set of terms, we'll keep all lists / forums / channels / sites focused on that, and trust people find other outlets for their other interests"
<sabdfl> in fact, i think that's healthier
<sabdfl> we are what we are. we are not what we are not.
<sabdfl> we are not, for example, a proxy for "everything some people do online"
<sabdfl> even if we are most of what *I* do online :-)
<dholbach> I think it's interesting to note that very few people seem to use the list in the way it was created back then - and it seems like there's nobody interested in bringing it back to that state, so no "governance" of the list
<sabdfl> agreed
<jussi> Just one thing that I mentioned to popey, if you do decide to close it, give a few suggestions of places people might go to replace it, rather than have people join other devolment or user lists to sound off.
<sabdfl> are there any CC who feel the case for keeping the list warrants discussion
<Technoviking> I was disappointed about the amount of complaining about the list being shutdown, but no solutions given by the group
<sabdfl> jussi: good point, but i think a number of those places should be "not in Ubuntu", i.e., politics and religion have their own forums
<sabdfl> Technoviking: this is normal, it's a backwater
<jussi> sabdfl: exactly :)
<dholbach> Technoviking, and it seems like nobody's here who participates in the discussions on the list
<popey> I try to participate but back off when it gets all unsavoury.
<dholbach> jussi, how about "your friends in a bar"?
<sabdfl> dholbach: friends don't let friends drink and argue politics :-)
<dholbach> I personally don't think Ubuntu needs a place to discuss "everything and nothing" :)
<popey> e.g. fixing peoples misconceptions of stuff
<dholbach> sabdfl, yes, good friends :)
<sabdfl> ok. we raise the quality of the project by being definitive about what doesn't fit
<Daviey> If the list was producing good debate, 'sounding new ideas' then it has a place.  I can't think of a single change that the discussion on the list has achieved.
<sabdfl> no responses yet to "are there any CC who feel the case for keeping the list warrants discussion", can we poll the CC on a motion to shut it down?
<sabdfl> i don't think btw we're shutting it down in anger, it's served its purpose, it's just time to prune
<popey> note that some of the CC is not available right now of course
<sabdfl> we have no effective governance for it, nor real reason to create that, nor volunteers
<popey> and this time may be difficult for members of the list to be here
<dholbach> sabdfl, I agree with that sentiment - maybe we should just give folks a chance to bring ideas to the next CC meeting (some said the timing of the meeting was bad for them)?
<popey> so the members of the list will feel unrepresented
<sabdfl> we can reopen the question if CC members who were not able to attend have objections
<popey> sabdfl: before you arrived I suggested we discuss this at 11 and 21 meeting to cover both ends of the day
<sabdfl> popey: i jsut got off a call with a person in New Zealand, so we cover EST -> New Zealand, we're good
<popey> ok.
<sabdfl> our community is too big now to agonize over this
<sabdfl> we're showing signs of paralysis through scale
<Technoviking> i think if the sounder folks felt strongly about it, surely one person out of 25 could attend irc neeting at an inconvient time
<sabdfl> i think we can reasonably make a decision on this which could get challenged and reviewed by email
<sabdfl> exactly
<sabdfl> i'm worried we're falling into the trap of over-consultation on an increasingly-complex landscape, which will paralyze us
<dholbach> ok, I agree - on second thought, the call for ideas was sent out a few days ago, so there actually was enough time
<sabdfl> more than
<sabdfl> i think popey has lead the call for a change admirably openly and fairly
<sabdfl> (thank you and well done popey)
<popey> ta
<jussi> seems correct, peoples thoughts could easily have gone to the email list if they really wanted a say.
<Technoviking> and he has taken an unfair beating for it
<sabdfl> so, can we poll CC on a motion to prune the list and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?
<Technoviking> Ubuntu should build  communities not private playgrounds
<sabdfl> agreed, good meme that
<dholbach> hum, let me check how to drive the poll irc thing
<sabdfl> this is a place to get stuff done, not make room for idle hands
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall sounder@lists.ubuntu.com be pruned and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall sounder@lists.ubuntu.com be pruned and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> hum... that's not very clear now, is it?
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<dholbach> shall we make that a poll about just sounder? and then discuss "being clear about 'anything goes' discussions" separately?
<dholbach> I mean I'm in favour of both :)
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Technoviking> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<popey> how did we get 5 when there's only 4 of us here?
<dholbach> oh, there was a private vote?
<czajkowski> my bad
<Daviey> someone msg'd the bot.
<czajkowski> I voted
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> ok
<czajkowski> fogot it was just CC
<dholbach> for the record: it's 4 out of 4 :)
<Technoviking> heh
<czajkowski> and you didnt mute channel like we do for LC to stop that happening
<czajkowski> sorry
<dholbach> I'll take an action item to draft something
<czajkowski> sorry dholbach/cc
<popey> muting wouldnt have fixed you privately messaging the bot
<dholbach> [action] dholbach to draft an announcement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to draft an announcement
<dholbach> I think that concludes the discussion of this item - popey: anything more?
<popey> nope
<dholbach> [topic] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<dholbach> Who wants to chair next time? Who wants to update the team report?
<sabdfl> i can write up this decision for the team report, with pleasure
<sabdfl> url?
<Technoviking> I will chair the next meeting
<dholbach> sabdfl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
<dholbach> thanks sabdfl, thanks Technoviking
<dholbach> Technoviking, popey, sabdfl: what did you think about the idea to use a google doc to track all our open discussion items?
<Technoviking> np
<popey> happy to use anything really
<sabdfl> dholbach: sounds fine by me
<popey> I dont mind what technology is used, so long as we all buy into it
<dholbach> yes, it's high time :)
<dholbach> ok
<Technoviking> fine here, or etherpad if one gets setup
<dholbach> that's all from me :)
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:31.
<sabdfl> cheers all
<Technoviking> thanks
<popey> thanks!
<jussi> :)
<sabdfl> thanks popey
<sabdfl> one thing  - jussi - i suspect we have other offtopic / ungoverned fora in the IRC world?
<sabdfl> we may need to consider applying a similar pruning principle
<sabdfl> previously, i was ok with "red light districts"
<sabdfl> i'm still ok with them, just not under ubuntu-*
<popey> we have -offtopic
<sabdfl> if it's governed, that may be ok
<popey> but we still have stuff that's "offtopic for offtopic"
<popey> !o4o
<ubottu> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<jussi> sabdfl: -offtopic is fairly ok though
<sabdfl> ok
<popey> People on sounder seem to feel it's "no holds barred, anything goes"
<jussi> Its the other non namespace channel that has our name that worries me.
<sabdfl> i think the framework of "offtopic and ungoverned" is reasonable as a basis for drawing the line
<sabdfl> that's what i wrote in the TeamReport
<sabdfl> other non-namespace channel?
<jussi> sabdfl: on freenode, we dont control ##channels.
<jussi> Im fairly sure you remember the situation with ##club-ubuntu.
<Technoviking> we also have The Community Cafe on the forums
<mc44> Ironically, Offtopic for offtopic was much stronger before the community council interfered
<mc44> The topics were banned
<Technoviking> but we keep it fairly clean off trollish topics
<jussi> However, within the namespace we have kept it fairly nice.
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> so far, so good
<sabdfl> cheers all!
<sladen> meh, missed it
<kirkland> Daviey: smoser: RoAkSoAx: jamespage: zul: hallyn: robbiew: SpamapS: could i swap meeting scribe with one of you guys today?  I'm sprinting in Montreal and kind of tied up at the moment
<smoser> kirkland, ok. if no one else.
<kirkland> smoser: thanks much
<SpamapS> smoser: ^5, you have earned yourself 1 turkish beer sir. :)
 * SpamapS always appreciate it when somebody other than him chairs. ;)
 * smb wonders whether anybody wants turkish beer
<dholbach> . o O { ignorant! }
<smoser> ok. lets start meeting. let me find links.
<smoser> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is smoser.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<smb> \o
<zul> hi
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Who do we have so far?
<jamespage> o/
<SpamapS> \o/
<smoser> o./
<zul> SpamapS: turkish beer any good?
<hallyn> \o
<SpamapS> zul: certainly not as good as turkish delight
<zul> O$
<Daviey> smoser, kicking off?
<smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> no action points from previous meeting apparently (per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20110412)
<smoser> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<Daviey> Hello o/
<Daviey> We now have beta 2 firmly out of the door, and the incomming bug count is promising low.  The burn down for final work items is looking on target:
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
<Daviey> The bugs i can currently tracking for Natty release are:
<Daviey>  == Bugs for the server team ==
<Daviey> [655533] [likewise-open] [master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (http://pad.lv/655533)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655533 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Natty) "[master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
<Daviey>  * Not assigned to anyone :(
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<Daviey> [726769] [eucalyptus] package eucalyptus-common 2.0.1 bzr1255-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (http://pad.lv/726769)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 726769 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "package eucalyptus-common 2.0.1 bzr1255-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: Dave Walker
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<Daviey> [745946] [cloud-init] cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests (http://pad.lv/745946)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745946 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
<Daviey>  * Not assigned to anyone :(
<hallyn> isn't that one thought to be fixed?
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<Daviey> [759943] [mod-wsgi] mod_wsgi.so-3.2 gives errors (http://pad.lv/759943)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759943 in mod-wsgi (Ubuntu) "mod_wsgi.so-3.2 gives errors" [Medium,In progress]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: In Progress
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: James Page
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-19
<Daviey>  
<hallyn> sorry, lag
<Daviey>  == Bugs being worked on in other areas ==
<Daviey> [728088] [debian-installer] iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot (http://pad.lv/728088)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728088 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: Colin Watson
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-14
<Daviey> [747090] [linux] wrong return address sometimes pushed for INT in kvm (not qemu) (http://pad.lv/747090)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 747090 in Ubuntu Translations "wrong return address sometimes pushed for INT in kvm (not qemu)" [Low,Triaged]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Fix Committed
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: Andy Whitcroft
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<Daviey> [566818] [plymouth] Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt (http://pad.lv/566818)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566818 in plymouth (Ubuntu Natty) "Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: Surbhi Palande
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<smoser> Daviey, pastebin ?
<Daviey> [580319] [upstart] dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start (http://pad.lv/580319)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580319 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start" [Medium,Triaged]
<smoser> seriously
<Daviey>  * Bug Status: Triaged
<Daviey>  * Assigned to: James Hunt
<Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
<Daviey> [759545] [g
<Daviey> smoser, regarding bug [745946]
<smoser> someone kick that guy
<zul> arrrrgh pastebin
<Daviey> smoser, regarding bug 745946... jamespage mentioned that he had not seen it in b2 round of testing... Do you think it's a bug with the AWS infrastructure rather than our platform?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745946 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745946
<smoser> i do not think it is aws infrastructure.
<Daviey> smoser, pastebin isn't ideal for historical retention :)
<smoser> and somehow a link to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/005606.html
<smoser> would have also been unsatisfactory ?
<Daviey> smoser, that is not up to date.
<smoser> well... anyway.
<zul> Daviey: you were the last one to comment about the likewise-open bug (last time i checked )are you going to upload it?
<Daviey> zul, still investigating that one.
<smoser> regarding that bug. i marked bug 760725 as a duplicate of it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760725 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Cloud-init failed to complete actions (dup-of: 745946)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745946 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745946
<SpamapS> I took a look at the likewise open situation as well and its very unclear what the actual issue is.
<smoser> i think that we should review this list
<Daviey> smoser, oh?
<smoser> but i think that multiple concurrent conversations will not fair well
<Daviey> smoser, Essentially, the ones on the list are pretty currently updated.
<smoser> i suspect that the root cause of the cloud-init bug above is a race condition on boot.
<Daviey> smoser, Okay, do you have an idea how to reproduce it?
<smoser> it could also be a timeout/failure of a network failure
<Daviey> smoser, I am kinda confused why we didn't see it with b2 tests?
<smoser> Daviey, i do not. that does not, unfortunately, mean it does not exist.
<smoser> Daviey, we did see it.
<smoser> we just opened a new bug.
<jamespage> Daviey: smoser and I discussed earlier - we saw something v similar in b2 testing - bug 760725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760725 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Cloud-init failed to complete actions (dup-of: 745946)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760725
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745946 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745946
<smoser> read bug 745946, which i duped to it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 745946 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745946
<Daviey> jamespage, ah!
<Daviey> Okay, i suggest we take that bug discussion out of band after the meeting.
<jamespage> they looked a little different but we believe they are the same thing.
<jamespage> Daviey: ack
<Daviey> Are there any other bugs which we should consider for natty release?
<Daviey> anyone?
<smoser> hold on...
 * Daviey holds.
<SpamapS> Daviey: there's some new upstart bugs that have come to light
<smoser> bug 751057
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 751057 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-pc upgrade on Amazon EC2: The GRUB boot loader was previously installed to a disk that is no longer present, or whose unique identifier has changed for some reason." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751057
<SpamapS> Daviey: they're not on our plate, but they do need to get fixed. I've just now pinged skaet with them
<Daviey> SpamapS, have the numbers handy?
<smoser> shoudl probably be looked at... and i wouldn't mind one other fix to that area of things.
<SpamapS> yeeeeess.... bug 728531 and bug 766206
<smoser> then, there was the grub upgrade prompt from maverick to natty
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "chroot support is not reliable" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766206 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "user session support allows non-priv users to gain root privileges" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766206
<Daviey> smoser, Regarding 751057 - have you spoken to anyone in foundations about it?
<smoser> Daviey, no. i have to look at it more.
<Daviey> smoser, okay, thanks..  and thanks SpamapS for them bugs... Now tracking them..   Any others from anyone else?
<smoser> bug 759545 is the other one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759545 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759545
<smoser> ah. but i see stgraber assigned that to himself 1 hour ago
<Daviey> smoser, that is on my list, no?
<smoser> here i have to admit to tuning out during the flood
<smoser> :)
<Daviey> Okay, i am done... If anyone seens any other bugs that are suitable for natty release - please let me know.. kkthnxbye.
<smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> gold prospecting in california next week
<smoser> zul and smoser will be at openstack summit next week (https://launchpad.net/sprints/ods-d)
<jamespage> Puppetcamp Europe in Amsterdam next Thur/Fri for me.
<Daviey> Not strictly server related, but i will be at the London (UK) Natty release party on the 28th - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-April/029427.html
<Daviey> (others welcome)
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> no news from me, except Euca now works
<smoser> woot!
<hggdh> And I do not know why/how :-(
<ttx> hggdh: cool :)
<smoser> and you can even upload kernels!
<hggdh> LOL
<smoser> anything else ?
<hggdh> ..
<Daviey> hggdh, because i sprinkled it with some fairy dust.
<ttx> hggdh: everything is in the dance. As soon as you find it...
<hggdh> Daviey: ah, the brit's magic
 * smoser practices his famed eucadance
<Daviey> no, it was from the clouds.
<zul> hggdh:  has your brain explodeded yet?
<Daviey> hggdh, Are there other areas that are of concern to you?
<hggdh> zul: no, it melted :-)
<Daviey> Did you have a chance to test other aspects?
<hggdh> Daviey: right now no, fortunately
<Daviey> hggdh, \o/
<hggdh> I did, but could not reproduce
<hggdh> still trying to break it ;-)
<Daviey> hggdh / jamespage: Is there any news on jenkins email reports of failure?
<jamespage> Daviey: kinda got side-tracked on that one
<jamespage> so no progress
<jamespage> (unless hggdh is going to surprise me :-))
<Daviey> jamespage, ok. is it tricky?
<hggdh> no. I would rather leave it for discussion during UDS, I am afraid we are starting to get patches here and there, with no consolidated view
<Daviey> hggdh, I just want to get a full inbox when a test case fails :)
<hggdh> oh, I can provide you with a full inbox easily
<Daviey> \o/
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> hggdh, can that be an action? :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> SMBunny proudly presents:
<smb> * http://people.canonical.com/~smb/lucid-ec2-ng
<smb> * git://kernel.ubuntu.com/smb/ubuntu-lucid.git ec2-next
<smb> ---
<smb> After a few weeks and about 90 patches later, it still/again compiles
<smb> and even boots (unfortunately it does not make coffee and still hangs
<smb> when trying to install java on a i386 t1.micro).
<smb> ---
<hggdh> Daviey: yeah
<smoser> hoops . sorry. i cut Daviey/hggdh off.
<smb> Anyway, due to many changes, some preliminary beating could be of advantage.
<smb> That would be all... :)
<smoser> smb, bummer on the java/t1.micro
<Daviey> smb, Hmm.. is there some exciting changes? :)
<smoser> i have probably asked before, but have you compared our source /config to amazon's kernels ?
<smb> smoser, as it seems to be no problem if you got a recent os outside, I did not expect much there
<smoser> a recent xen hypervisor, you mean.
<smb> smoser, it seems more dom0 related as centos 5.5 and xen 3.0.2 works as well as 5.5 and 3.4.3
<Daviey> smb, When are we expecting the next natty kernel upload, 0-day?
<smb> I don't think there has been the feeling it needs to be 0-day, but around 1 week later or so
<smb> smoser, Oh and about amazon kernels. No, I did not really know where to get the sources from
<Daviey> smb, okay with me :).
<smoser> [ACTION] smoser will point smb at amazon kernels
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser will point smb at amazon kernels
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<smoser> what do we do here?
<Daviey> We talk about the lack of docs we have been doing.
<Daviey> Has anyone touched docs in the last week?
<Daviey> (/me hasn't)
 * zul giggles
<jamespage> nope
<Daviey> We really, really do need to look at them this week.
<hallyn> once more: url
<hallyn> (+ action)
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: it was suggested to removed this topic until we find another who can take care of it
<RoAkSoAx> but everybody pretty much ignored the discussion :)
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, sadly, we just will not for the short term.
<hallyn> so when we find things to fix, where to we send the fixes?
<Daviey> hallyn, I'll post an email to ubuntu-server today about docs review
<hallyn> thanks
<Daviey> done.
<smoser> [ACTION] Daviey to send message to -server regarding docs review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to send message to -server regarding docs review
<hallyn> heh
<smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<smoser> no kim0
<smoser> does anyone have anything htere?
<smoser> here
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<Daviey> Still time to add blueprint ideas for UDS!
<smoser> when is the deadline for that?
<Daviey> Has anyone had ideas not yet raised?
<Daviey> smoser, later-ish.. but soon-ish is better-ish.
<Daviey> Regarding the DB spec.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/MySQL  needs populating if it is worth our while disucssing it
<Daviey> & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/NetworkMonitoring
<robbiew> blueprints...blueprints...bluepritns
<robbiew> server-o-blah-bloop-bleep
<Daviey> Both are somewhat disappointing considering that active discussion on those threads.
<robbiew> robbie.w as approver
<Daviey> I can really see no point in us talking about MySQL or nagios  alternatives without details on the matrix.
<hallyn> against what 'project'?
<SpamapS> Daviey: re db spec
<SpamapS> Colin from MontyProgram will be at UDS on Monday
<robbiew> hallyn...uh, "ubuntu"
<Daviey> SpamapS, on neat.
<SpamapS> He's registered already and I'll subscribe him as an essential person for the mysql discussion
<hallyn> thanks
<SpamapS> I am also going to work on getting somebody from Percona to join virtually if not physically
<Daviey> SpamapS, groovy... can you ask him to add some facts to the wiki page?
<Daviey> SpamapS, I'd really like to go into the session better informed than i am at the moment... rather than learning during that time.
<SpamapS> Daviey: yes I'll get Percona and MontyProgram to update that wiki. Not sure of who we could get from Oracle.
<Daviey> SpamapS, It seems you have that action in hand!
<SpamapS> Daviey: the water is a bit muddy in that Percona takes MontyProgram's patches and MontyProgram takes Percona's patches so there's actually very little difference.
<smoser> done?
<SpamapS> And then they're both starting to cherry pick from MySQL 5.6 .. we really need to decide what we want available to users.
<zul> postgresql!
<hallyn> se-postgresql
<SpamapS> Drizzle ftw  ;)
<smoser> sql is so old and lame
<SpamapS> smoser: yes I think we've descended into single word answers.. quick before it gets dirty
<smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Forget SQL, and NoSQL, we want the new hotness.. "SomeSQL"
<smoser> Tuesday, April 25th 2011 14:00 UTC
<SpamapS> cheers all!
<smoser> end meeting coming
<smoser> in 5
<smoser> 4
<Daviey> wait
<smoser> 3
<Daviey> okay, carry on.
<SpamapS> 14:00 UTC?!
<smoser> 2
<smoser> doh!
<smoser> Tuesday, April 25th 2011 16:00 UTC
 * SpamapS thinks smoser was just checking to see if we were reading
<smoser> 1
<smoser> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:47.
 * smb stays behind for the next one
 * Daviey lurks to keep smb company.
<smb> Daviey, Cheers. :)
<JFo> \o/
<ppisati_> o/
<cking> o/
<kamal> o/
<herton> \o
<sconklin> -o-
<smb> Too early, too early!
 * JFo dances
<cking> we are eager
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<kamal> gotta be early or you'll miss it, given bjf's lightning speed ;-)
<sconklin> we want a world record for a negative meeting length
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (15 bugs, 7 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (52 across all packages (up 9)) ====
<JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (236 across all packages (down 8)) ====
<JFo>  * 34 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
<JFo>  * 2 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 5 Linux Bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo> changed to only reflect linux package bugs
<JFo>  * 15 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:92 (up 6) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] to develop process for handling, validation & closure,
<JFo>   and document in the wiki:POSTPONED
<JFo>    -held off because the process is changing. The documentation I have compiled
<JFo>     will be useful once we enumerate what gets broken out between SRU and Dev.
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] to drive existing bugs with patches list to zero and keep it there:POSTPONED
<JFo>   - postponed based on conversation with Pete. There will be more on this post-UDS
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at kerneloops reports to better detect duplicates:POSTPONED
<JFo>   - postponed as this work will not make it before release. Will likely complete ist of the
<JFo>     O cycle
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at primary arsenal message for applicability to flavour
<JFo>   (not appropriate for arm):POSTPONED
<JFo>   -Postponed as the arsenal scripts are currently under complete rewrite to reduce complexity
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] update apport-hooks verbage:POSTPONED
<JFo>   -bjf has a bug in to address this. I have postponed pending the outcome of that bug.
<JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at arsenal flow and document:DONE
<JFo>   -completed inasmuch as we have basic diagrams for what they currently do. This will
<JFo>    change with the re-write mentioned above
<JFo> * [sconklin] ensure we have documentation/scripting(?) for git bisect'ing an issue:DONE
<JFo>   -Done. Available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBisection
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
<apw> No change from last week version wise.  We may have to do an upload today for a compiler issue.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We are not currently in a normal SRU kernel cycle due to allocation of testing resources to Natty.
<sconklin> || However, we have uploaded new Maverick packages to -proposed (or will today), in order to allow
<sconklin> || interested parties to test the fairly large set of upstream stable patches which have been applied.
<sconklin> || Maverick will be respun during the next cycle with any new fixes, and replace the package currently
<sconklin> || in -proposed.
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        5 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.61         ||    6 ||        6 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.315.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-ti-omap4                    || 2.6.35-903.21        || 2.6.35-903.22        ||    2 ||        2 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.7               ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || Complete (almost) realtime version report is here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  917 Natty Bugs (up 262) !
<JFo>  1265 Maverick Bugs (up 10)
<JFo>  1075 Lucid Bugs (up 11)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 47 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 77 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 karmic bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 482 natty bugs (up 147) !
<JFo>   * 250 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 224 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 34 natty bugs (up 17) !
<JFo>   * 1 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ! - please note that the numbers enumerated by '!' may be artificially elevated due to a
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<JFo> tremendous amount of seemingly duplicate bugs of the
<JFo> "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/net/sched/sch_generic." variety.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> We Didn't hold a bug day. I let it slip my mind completely.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:05.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<smb> Beertime!
<sconklin> thanks
<ppisati_> :)
<cking> sweet
<JFo> enjoy smb :)
<kamal> thanks bjf
<ogasawara> JFo: just curious, the 34 natty bugs noted as regression-proposed, is that accurate?  as we don't have a -proposed kernel for natty yet.
<kamal> JFo sees into the future ;-)
<bjf> ogasawara, yes, there are natty bugs with that tag on them
<JFo> ogasawara, that is only there so I can track them
<JFo> and address them
<JFo> hope to sort them out today
<marcus> are there any meeting rules available?
<czajkowski> marcus: with regards to what ?
<marcus> raising voice, moderation ...
<czajkowski> marcus: really depends on what meeting tbh, if it;s in here there are usually team meetings so procedures and topics and people talk at certain times
<czajkowski> in loco team channels it does depend on how it's chaired
<marcus> ah, okay
<paultag> LoCo time, T-Minus 2 minutes
<paultag> czajkowski: popey: itnet7: huats: leogg: ping :)
<huats> paultag, hello
<paultag> huats: Howdy!
<huats> right on time
<huats> :)
<popey> yo!
<paultag> popey: Howdy-doodie!
<paultag> 'bout that time!
<paultag> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is paultag.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<paultag> Well, hello, world!
<paultag> we've got huats, popey, is leogg itnet7 or czajkowski here?
<leogg> o/
<paultag> o7
 * paultag checks agenda
<paultag> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<paultag> JanC: ping?
<huats> paultag, he should be around since 15 minutes ago he was sending email :)
<paultag> huats: aye :)
<paultag> anyone have anything else, while we wait?
<JanC> hi
<paultag> Ah, howdy
<paultag> JanC: the floor is yours
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> hey czajkowski
 * paultag waves to czajkowski 
<czajkowski> I blame my housemate for eating my internet >:(
<paultag> czajkowski: it's OK, we're underway, JanC's got the floor just now
<paultag> have'nt missed anything yet
<JanC> well, ubuntu-be has some money to spend on material for publicity
<JanC> and we wondered if Canonical would want to sell some of the things they buy for themselves (or sometimes to give away for free) to locoteams at a good price
<YoBoY> hi
<JanC> and at least 3 other locoteams in the mailing list found that a good idea too
<paultag> ubuntu-cz, italy, and ecuador
<czajkowski> JanC: like a discount code or something ?
<JanC> I'm also thinking about things that are not in the regular store
<JanC> like the table cloth & banner
<popey> perhaps they _should_ sell them in the store
<popey> and give discounts to approved teams
<czajkowski> popey: +1 idea yes
<JanC> we could use more of these, and other things like rollups etc.
<huats> popey, I am sure it is a good idea for canonical to sell that in the store
<paultag> I could see that being really useful
<Cracknel> this sounds great
<paultag> and I think everyone would make out fairly well from it
<popey> would make it easier for people to buy them
<czajkowski> JanC: so the table cloth and bannner are good examples of this
<popey> via a legitimate store
<huats> it is clearly soemthing aimed at large groups
<czajkowski> can you think of anything else
<huats> like LoCos
<JanC> of course if they are much more expensive than making them locally it's not going to work well
<czajkowski> we then can ask canonical would it be possible for teams to purchase these things via the store ?
<czajkowski> JanC: of course, but the idea being they'd all be the same so more professional looking
<JanC> that's one point indeed
<paultag> [IDEA] Sell LoCo Conf-SWAG (such as tablecloths or banners) in their store, at a discounted rate for approved teams
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Sell LoCo Conf-SWAG (such as tablecloths or banners) in their store, at a discounted rate for approved teams
<czajkowski> ok so I guess what I'm wondering is
<czajkowski> before we go to canonical and ask for this
<czajkowski> is it just these two items
<czajkowski> or is there anything else that springs to mind
<paultag> +1 czajkowski
<JanC> rollups are another thing
<czajkowski> I dont want to go back and forth every few months asking for another rhing
<czajkowski> rollups?
<huats> once again putting that in the store might only put some "pollution" in the store or at least to have that in a separate category
<popey> we should a) ask canonical if they're willing first, then b) if they are, go to loco-contacts and ask when people want most
<popey> feed that back to canonical
<YoBoY> czajkowski: lanyards
<paultag> popey: +1
<huats> popey, +1
<popey> AIUI there were some changes afoot in the store
<popey> so this might work well, or badly depends
<JanC> there are lots of lanyards in the conference packs currently  âº
<czajkowski> YoBoY: lanyards are already there
<YoBoY> yes but not discounted ^^"
<serfus> what's nice in banner and such imo is that most of the loco teams have it localize, this will cancel that
<popey> YoBoY: anything can be discounted
<czajkowski> YoBoY: they are also in the conference packs.
<JanC> but selling regular store items with the discount might be nice too
<popey> you can get vouchers for the stores
<YoBoY> czajkowski: the conference pack don't have enought for me
<czajkowski> serfus: not the approved ones, it's a generic one.
<huats> serfus, I think the idea would be to find items that don't need localisation
<czajkowski> YoBoY: france team is a bit of an unusal one :)
<czajkowski> huats: back me up here!!!
<YoBoY> lol
<huats> czajkowski, no way
<huats> standing next to YoBoY :)
<czajkowski> ok well if you like I'll take this on as an action item
<czajkowski> and write to jane and petra and ask them would this be even possible and report back either via next mweeing or via the mailing list
<paultag> [ACTION] Contact Canonical about offering LoCos products in the Store
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Contact Canonical about offering LoCos products in the Store
<paultag> +1 czajkowski, thanks :)
<paultag> JanC: really great idea
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> is there anything else
<czajkowski> also can I please ask all locoteams when contacting us to mail the entire team
<czajkowski> if you mail us personally the team may miss out due to people not getting their email
<czajkowski> pretty please :D
<czajkowski> mail loco council mail address
<paultag> we are in most timezones, so we get back to you faster :)
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> exactly
<czajkowski> does anyone have anything else ?
<paultag> Anyone have anything they'd like to bring up?
<JanC> BTW, czajkowski: with "rollups" I mean roll-up banners that come with a metal stand to hang them on  (Canonical has those already for internal use)
<paultag> what Laura said :)
<itnet7> o/
<paultag> itnet7: you have the floor :)
<popey> i think we (UK) call them 'pop-up' banners, but yeah
<YoBoY> JanC: not so good, english presentation material...
<czajkowski> JanC: grand job shall ask also
<YoBoY> or just with Ubuntu on it a bit ?
<huats> YoBoY, that is why I mention materials that don't need translation
<czajkowski> YoBoY: can just be the same Ubuntu info as on banner
<czajkowski> Ubuntu and loco.ubuntu.com o them
<JanC> YoBoY: considering that we often have to use it in a multilingual environment anyway...   ;)
<YoBoY> the banner have the english website, it's not a good info for me and people discovering ;)
<huats> JanC, it is something that is not true in France (the multilingual stuff)
<JanC> ah, but we have localised flyers etc.
<itnet7> sorry finally got on
<JanC> and posters
<paultag> oh, righto
<itnet7> was jyst saying present
<paultag> itnet7: yessir :)
<czajkowski> YoBoY: but if this goes into the store it's not going to be in multilanguages
<czajkowski> it costs too much to get it done
<JanC> the banners are more to pull attention or be visible from further away
<paultag> we could ask for no english on it, I guess
<YoBoY> yes I know, I don't want multilanguages stuff, I want neutral language stuff
<paultag> with just "Ubuntu" and the logo or something
<JanC> and to make the booth recognizable
<paultag> and stock photos of people having fun
<czajkowski> yes Ubuntu or loco.ubuntu.com as it's for locoteams
<YoBoY> for example yes
<YoBoY> it's a translated website
<czajkowski> that's all that is going to go on these things
<czajkowski> that makes them suitable for all
<YoBoY> or we could ask a special website like start.ubuntu.com where users are redirect to the right website
<YoBoY> don't know what's the best way
<huats> YoBoY, I think we'll figure out lter
<YoBoY> yes
<huats> first let's ask Canonicla
<czajkowski> we have the LD lets not go creating more websites for others to develop :)
<JanC> "find you local team on loco.ubuntu.com"
<JanC> but that's English again...
<huats> and then during the many exchange we'll find the right formula to have something language neutral
<YoBoY> just the website JanC :)
<vojtech_t> i think just logo and ubuntu.com or loco.ubuntu.com is enough
<czajkowski> ok
<JanC> hi vojtech_t, you responded for the Czech team on the list IIRC ?
<vojtech_t> JanC: yes
<czajkowski> vojtech_t: thanks
<vojtech_t> i think this is great idea, because we could use this materials, but it's to problematic for us to obtain them (create graphics, find a company to produce them...)
<vojtech_t> *..too problematic...
<JanC> vojtech_t: depends on what you have most: people to work on it or money  âº
<YoBoY> same problem everywhere
<YoBoY> huats: where we produced our last banners ? :D
<czajkowski> vojtech_t: I've taken an action item to follow this up so will do so and get back to people
<JanC> but there is also the scale issue, often making 1 or 2 items is relatively expensive
<serfus> it might be easier and cheaper but i still think it's better for a loco team to have local merchandise
<JanC> serfus: one doesn't exclude teh other
<huats> YoBoY, Peru
<YoBoY> ^^
<huats> and it was really cheap
<czajkowski> at the end of the day folks, this is really only a discussion to see if people may be interested we still need to ask canonical if it's even possible
<serfus> JanC, in case the team is not very wealthy it does
<czajkowski> so nothing really will be sorted till then
<huats> we asked someone from Ubuntu Peru (nxvl) to bring it to us on a UDS
<huats> and it costs us only 20â¬ for 3 banners...
<czajkowski> yes but not everyone is in that position
<JanC> I've been thinking it might also be useful if Canonical wanted to pay the transport cost (now often the people who have least money pay most because they live further away...)
<JanC> that could be part of the "discount"
<paultag> OK, I think we have had some good talk on this, and we have enough to move forward with this
<paultag> I think we should end this topic -- does anyone else have a new topic to discuss?
<paultag> if not, we'll close the meeting and take this to locoteams
<paultag> once!
<paultag> twice!
<paultag> thrice! That's a wrap!
<paultag> Thanks, all!
<paultag> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
<JanC> yep, thanks everybody for coming & discussing  âº
<serfus> â
<YoBoY> thanks
<highvoltage> ohno I missed loco time
<huats> highvoltage, indeed :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-20
<amedee> logging in early for the 3 may meeting about the shutdown of the Sounder list, as proposed by Alan Pope (popey). I'll keep this line open until then, thanks to irssi+screen, but I'll be silent until that time.
<dholbach> amedee, the meeting was yesterday already - check out http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t12:00
<jelmer> hi barry :)
<barry> jelmer: hi :)
<barry> i stupidly agreed to change the meeting time right during spring break.  good thing the insomnia has kicked in :)
<barry> jelmer: any signs of poolie and jam?
<jelmer> jam should be around
<poolie> hi guys
<poolie> 9pm seemed earlier when i scheduled this
<james_w> hi
<poolie> :)
<barry> poolie: hi
<barry> poolie: as i was saying, spring break started this week, so i actually didn't need to get up this early :)
<barry> shall we try to track down jam before we start?
<poolie> he was around, he may also have child school run or something
<poolie> let's just start
<barry> sounds good
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:04. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello and welcome to this week's udd steering committee meeting
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110420
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110420
<barry> not a whole lot on the agenda, but let's dive right in
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<barry> i know jam wanted to keep this on the agenda, so let's come back to it if he joins us later
<poolie> gosh, what a good idea
<poolie> yep
<barry>    * poolie to talk to LOSAs about getting new bzrs rolled out to jubany
<poolie> next?
<poolie> ah, yes, i did
<barry> poolie: eta?
<poolie> i think it's unblocked and waiting in their queue
<poolie> let me find it
<poolie> already done!
<barry> wow, fantastic!
<poolie> thanks to spm and maxb
<poolie> hm it's still on hardy
<barry> poolie: what are the big wins with the upgrade?
<poolie> so that took us to 2.3.1 apparently
<james_w> the main thing was that it fixed a bug that was causing a lot of import failures IIRC
<james_w> I don't know what we upgraded from though
<poolie> which is the latest on the 2.3 series
<poolie> it was 2.3.0~beta5-0~1.ISPATCHED.8.04
<barry> [LINK] http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<poolie> so, a fair bit of stuff including some of jam's memory usage improvements
<barry> cool, thanks
<barry>    * barry to send email about meeting times given dst dance '''(done)'''
<barry>  
<barry> and here we are :)
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Package importer progress
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Package importer progress
<barry> see link above
<poolie> the specific thing it fixes is https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/726584
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 726584 in Bazaar "flash-kernel import fails apparently mismatching maverick and natty branches" [Critical,Fix released]
<poolie> hm, not a lot of changes this last week i think
<poolie> aside from that one
<barry> import failures appear to have a little spike right at the end
<poolie> there was a big canonical network hardware outage which caused some failures last week
<james_w> an LP service issue seems to have spiked in failures
<poolie> i see a lot of connectionreset type errors
<poolie> that would be good to look in to
<poolie> also for better re-scheduling
<james_w> likely just needs a ./requeue_package.py --auto kiwi
<poolie> shall i just run that now?
<james_w> you could remove the --auto and add --priority to see if that one succeeds, and then run that command on another to retry the rest
<barry> anything else of interest in package importer status?
<poolie> no
<barry> [TOPIC] bugs of interest
<MootBot> New Topic:  bugs of interest
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<poolie> so, a fair number of bugs fixed
<barry> as always, an impressive amount of work!
<poolie> faster working trees from john
<poolie> many git and hg fixes from jelmer
<poolie> oh and bzr-builddeb
<barry> jelmer: do you think now would be a good time to re-try the import of python's hg?
<poolie> do you two want to mention any in particular?
<poolie> oh, not really a bug, but we did get the 2.2 SRU into maverick
<poolie> we still need to push through 2.1 into lucid
<poolie> 2.0 is essentially eol now that karmic is
<jelmer> barry: unfortunately I haven't had time to land it on launchpad yet as I was planning
<jelmer> barry: It should happen this week instead.
<james_w> it's great to have watch file support, thanks for that jelmer!
<barry> jelmer: cool, no worries.  thanks
<jelmer> barry: I'll try to remember to ping you when I do
<barry> james_w: seconded.  i've already used it twice and it ROCKS
<barry> jelmer: thanks
<jelmer> thanks, that's great to hear
<barry> anything else on bugs of interest?
<poolie> 'warn when out of date' is still high on my list
<poolie> lp is shortly going to deploy a change that should make things more stable when branches are renamed
<poolie> james mentioned um
<barry> really great to hear!
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/766757
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 766757 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "creating mps for collisions isn't helpful" [High,Confirmed]
<poolie> to me, which is not the whole story in itself
<poolie> but a string we can pull on to make the package importer better
<poolie> i was really happy to see michaelh1 summarize some performance issues and then jam fixed many of them
<poolie> hm, what else
<poolie> any nominations for bugs we ought to do next?
<barry> just the out-of-date warning one from me
<jelmer> poolie: +1, it's really exciting to see those performance fixes from John
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Any other business?
<poolie> let's see
<poolie> UDS
<poolie> do we know sessions are booked?
<poolie> and, if we're going to do a short plenary, we should prepare one
<poolie> i don't know if they have been chosen yet
<jelmer> the session appear to be booked
<barry> agreed about the plenary.  they're really short this year.  i think 15m max.  can we do something reasonable in 15m?
<poolie> i think so but it will have to be well chosen
<poolie> obviously not a tutorial
<jelmer> confirmed we have 3 sessions booked
<poolie> yet not waffle
<barry> why don't we add an action item for all of us to think about a plenary session, and we can brainstorm next meeting (which will be the week before uds)?
<poolie> k
<poolie> let's do more than just think :)
<james_w> I think plenaries have to be proposed before then :-(
<poolie> let's send some outlines
<barry> poolie: +1
<poolie> i have proposed one, i just do not have slides yet
<barry> poolie: can you send a link to your proposal and we can use that to start off with?  we can help w/slides too
<poolie> sure
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to send link to plenary proposal.  all to help finish that
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to send link to plenary proposal.  all to help finish that
<barry> (hopefully that captures it ;)
<barry> any thing else for today?
<poolie> gosh
<poolie> we got a lot of good feedback
<poolie> i still have a few flagged to reply to
<poolie> i don't know good answers to all of them off hand
<poolie> for instance the thread on ubuntu-desktop about switching to merge-mode versioning, which is good, but raises questions
<poolie> jelmer: anything else from you?
<jelmer> no, though I should probably have a look at that ubuntu-desktop thread
<poolie> i would appreciate that
<jelmer> ok
<poolie> oh, of course, there was one more
<poolie> bfbia; can you talk about that jelmer?
<jelmer> ah, good point
<jelmer> We've talked about build from branch into primary earlier. There are some things that still need to be ironed out for that, in particular the security requirements.
<jelmer> There is another milestone that would be useful to aim for, and for which all the requirements seem to be clear - building from branch into a PPA
<jelmer> The changes to e.g. bzr-builder, the buildds and the API we have to make for this are the same as for bfbip.
<poolie> i think it would be a good step towards it
<james_w> that's not already there?
<poolie> it's essentially recipes with a null recipe
<poolie> is that a fair way to describe it?
<james_w> ok
<jelmer> poolie: yeah, I think so
<jelmer> james_w: also, e.g creating. .orig.tar.gz is not supported at the moment
<james_w> right
<james_w> so building a "distribution-acceptable package" in to a PPA
<jelmer> james_w: yeah, basically
<poolie> that's a good metric for it
<poolie> so then to go from that to 'into primary archive' is mostly
<jelmer> and with the same constraints we set for bfbip - an API call to request them and without requiring a recipe
<poolie> getting approval it's an ok thing to allow
<poolie> possibly more security checks-
<poolie> ... teaching lp to put the source into there, which apparently is a small change
<barry> sounds good, thanks for the update.  anything else for today?
<poolie> i think that's it
<poolie> it's late here
<jelmer> nothing else from me
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:42.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<poolie> thanks guys
<poolie> could probably run a bit faster in future but that was good
<barry> agreed.  and we'll get jam here one of the days :)
<jelmer> :)
<poolie> "jam this meeting runs too slow.  i guess you don't really have time to look into it but..."
<poolie> tappety tap
 * jelmer chuckles
<cjwatson> hi folks
<mvo> hello
<jhunt> hi
<barry> hi
<psurbhi> hi
<stgraber> hello
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> all right, muggins gets to do it I guess
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<cjwatson> barry:
<barry> bug 758037 (pyopenssl fix for py27); bug 753900 (f2py broken); bug 759684 (landscape-monitor); bug 671131 (winpdb); bug 759943 (mod_wsgi); bug 458872 (cj deleting manually installed packages); bug 719214 (pyepl import failure); bug 719212 (hocr import failure); bug 742384 (sphinx/jquery incompatibility); helped w/ debug of 735577 (s/c log perms); udd; dmb application update; network manager debugging; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758037 in pyopenssl (Ubuntu Natty) "pyopenssl breaks all ssl apps because of changes in python 2.7" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 753900 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "f2py broken in natty" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753900
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 759684 could not be found
<ev> hi
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 671131 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759943 in mod-wsgi (Ubuntu) "mod_wsgi.so-3.2 gives errors" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759943
<mvo> \o/ 735577
<cjwatson> also, I believe barry is up for core-dev next Monday ...
<cjwatson> Done: On holiday Monday and Tuesday.  Rest of the time:
<cjwatson>  - Installer: debootstrap dependency resolver fix (740167), ports mirror setup fix (756719), new AMD CPU family (760490), keyboard configuration adjustments for OEM (741304), parted gptsync fixes (757201), make console-setup actually set keymap again in d-i.
<cjwatson>  - GRUB: make grub-mount run single-threaded (756297), background configuration for derivatives (696915).
<cjwatson>  - Repaired Ubuntu Studio task dependencies.
<cjwatson> To do:
<cjwatson>  - Make partman reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition (746313).  Proving a bit more complicated than I expected. :-(
<cjwatson>  - md5sum collection for /etc/default/grub upgrade (759545).
<cjwatson>  - Try to find time to analyse GRUB/memtest86+ failure (683904).
<barry> yep!  feel free to add your glowing recommendations to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
<cjwatson>  - Free software option on powerpc images (759519).
<cjwatson>  - Make os-prober handle our btrfs subvolume layout (764893).
<cjwatson> --
<cjwatson> ev:
<ev> Spent two days trying to unbreak the upgrade/reinstall option when no Internet connection is available, with a debate that ultimately resulted in me disabling it when no Internet connection is present (bug 766171). I did fix apt-clone related bugs in ubiquity and dpkg-repack along the way though.  Fixed synchronization between debconf instances, which had broken the download updates box (bug 761094).  Set up country-specific translations in the slidesho
<ev> (bug 758658). pitti and I fixed installing the nvidia driver in ubiquity when a PAE kernel is selected (bug 759804). Moved the "hostname exists on the network" error to a warning (bug 760884). And fixed some more minor issues.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766171 in apt-clone (Ubuntu Natty) "apt-clone does not repack debs that it will not be able to download when there isn't an Internet connection" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766171
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 761094 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) ""Download updates while installing" checkbox does nothing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758658 in Ubiquity Slideshow "Natty slideshow uses en_GB for all English users" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758658
<ev> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759804 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Installation of -pae kernel happens after jockey -C, causing removal of built DKMS modules" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759804
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760884 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Change of proposed computer name causes error" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760884
<cjwatson> doko seems to have fallen off the network
<cjwatson> mvo:
<mvo> Apt-clone: fix deprecation warning and upload new version , fix in deboostrap mode, fixes in the restore code, auto-detect tarprefix, use to clone upgrade test
<mvo> Apt-ddtp update
<mvo> Aptdaemon: bug triage, merge latest fixes from upstream, upload, relax lintian checks for lsb packages, test latest bzr, prepare new upload, work on cdrom tests with glatzor
<mvo> Archive-crawler: improve tests, look at branch from lp:~j-johan-edwards/archive-crawler/foreign-icons, work on improving the icon extraction
<mvo> Auto-upgrade-tester: add euca-{nc,cloud} profiles and enable them on the auto-upgrade-teser, log reviews
<mvo> Manual upgrade-testing (server, ubuntu desktop)
<mvo> software-center: discuss CJK xapian with DX, debug crash in accessiblity/httplib2 code, debug database reopen error (#507836), debug/fix (mostly) #636429, debug/fix one db-reopen crash (#757054),  fix bug in freshly enabled channels/components, fix two more issues around the db-reopen problem, kill multiprocessing for get-review-stats and us spawner code, test purchase, fix bug in aptdaemon, work on appdetailsview_gtk handling/refreshes
<mvo> Sudo: debug/fix upgrade issue (#761689)
<mvo> Unattended-upgrades: fix crash in dpkg --configure -a code (#754330)
<mvo> Update-manager: debug/fix #759262, improve sshd detection (using find parent)lalalala, improve DistUpgradeViewText
<mvo> Next week: vacation mon,tues,wed
<mvo> (done)
<cjwatson> psurbhi:
<psurbhi> *) worked on plymouth bug: 566818
<psurbhi> *) testing the initramfs code for cryptsetup - the debug messages go past the plymouth prompt and no input is taken - trying to solve this
<psurbhi> *) added code in the handle pivot event - in upstart. modified the test cases.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566818 in plymouth (Ubuntu Natty) "Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566818
<mvo> cjwatson: the grub/memtest86 issue, any hints on this one? could it be a compiler/machine releated issue (becuase it appears to work in qemu?)
<cjwatson> mvo: (bring it up after the lightning round?)
 * mvo nods
<cjwatson> psurbhi: I noticed that the cryptsetup change I sponsored was rejected by somebody, but didn't have any context for it - is that what your current work in plymouth is about?
<psurbhi> yes
<psurbhi> the echo would not be displayed in a graphical plugin
<cjwatson> ah, ok - that makes sens
<cjwatson> e
<cjwatson> (in theory anyway)
<psurbhi> right
<cjwatson> jhunt:
<jhunt> Obligatory Upstart Cookbook updates. Dash of Upstart Sprint planning.
<jhunt> Fixed out-of-memory scenario (bug 728531) which required a good deal of
<jhunt> debug and resulted in uncovering a D-Bus issue (bug 766953 - report needs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "chroot support is not reliable" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<jhunt> to be sent upstream). Raised bug 766206 to cover some significant
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766953 in dbus (Ubuntu) "dbus_connection_register_object_path() leaks memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766953
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 766206 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "user session support allows non-priv users to gain root privileges" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766206
<jhunt> changes in latest Upstart. Discovered what appears to be a bug in libnih
<jhunt> (will raise a bug when I have a better handle on it). Currently working
<jhunt> on bug 767053 (rel critical).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 767053 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) ""initctl status" no longer works as a non-privileged user" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/767053
<jhunt> EOT
<cjwatson> stgraber:
<stgraber> Mostly helping with quite a few different bugs: bug 759545, bug 746028, bug 665218, bug 742935, bug 760035, bug 756920, bug 727410, bug 747325. Also got hit by bug 766534 yesterday so had to wait for the fix before my netinstall would work again.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759545 in grub2 (Ubuntu Natty) "user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759545
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746028 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Natty) "Wallpapers are not updated on upgrade to Natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746028
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665218 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Natty) "Software-center reports a progamming error in aptdaemon but without any details" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 742935 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptd crashed with OSError in release(): [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760035 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "Ubuntu.info template doesn't allow deb-src lines using archive.ubuntu.com on ports architectures" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760035
<stgraber> (done)
<cjwatson> I guess ubottu has a cap on how many things it will do in response to one line
<stgraber> apparently
<cjwatson> doko:
<doko> working on opening natty (toolchain and basic library updates), test rebuild (tool changes and file bug reports)
<doko> done
<barry> cjwatson: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu/natty/pyepl/bug-719214/+merge/58164
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 58164 in Dapper Backports "firestarter backport" [High,Invalid]
<cjwatson> ta
<doko> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110413-natty.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110413-natty.html
<cjwatson> s/natty/oneiric/, right? :)
<doko> doesn't look too bad
<doko> oops
 * cjwatson wonders if it's possible to open oneiric PPAs in advance, with natty chroots ...
<cjwatson> (might not be worth the trouble)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<cjwatson> mvo: so you asked about grub/memtest86+
<cjwatson> mvo: it's hard to say, but one possibility is that we're leaving some registers uninitialised on entry, for instance
 * mvo nods
<cjwatson> mvo: it could also be that qemu gives us a different E820 memory layout
<cjwatson> either of those would fit with what's changed, and seem eminently possible
<mvo> thanks
<cjwatson> mvo: I'm not seeing an immediate reboot, but I am seeing "error: too small lower memory (0x99100 > 0x96000)"
<cjwatson> perhaps related, hard to be sure
<mvo> oh, interessting, on my box I don't see that or its happening too quickly to see it
<cjwatson> again, probably indicates slight differences in memory layout given by the BIOS
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs?field.milestone=33569 - 11.04 bugs
<cjwatson> ev: are you expecting to have time for bug 740903 or bug 657086?  (sorry, haven't kept up with the bug comments)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740903 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "return_to_partitioning fails when the replace option fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657086 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "No restart option after choosing to "Continue Testing"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657086
<cjwatson> bug 758614 I'm guessing is either a lost cause or the Kubuntu folks are going to have to deal with it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "Kubuntu Wubi - Black screen during stage 2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758614
<ev> I've not had luck reproducing bug 740903 (which is probably a good thing) but am not yet convinced that it doesn't exist
<cjwatson> bug 529201 has had comments following your request for information
<ev> bug 657086 continues to baffle me, but I really don't think it's natty at this point
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529201 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Natty) "ubiquity shows scrollbar in installation slideshow" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529201
<mvo> I look at 760035, stgraber fixed it, I just need to look at it again, the code is not that well covered with test-cases (there are some, but â¦ ) so I'm a bit nervous
<ev> it has, but that's another one I cannot reproduce
<ev> I'm going to keep trying with a few more resolution combinations
<ev> I can't unmilestone tasks, which is slightly annoying, so I can't make these changes myself
<cjwatson> bug 764893 and bug 746313 are both on my list for today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 764893 in os-prober (Ubuntu Natty) "os-prober: does not detect Ubuntu in btrfs subvolume" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746313 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Natty) "partman should reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746313
<cjwatson> ev: you can't?  you did so for 766171 earlier ...
<ev> cjwatson: can't what? 766171 is the apt-clone bug.
<ev> oh
<ev> unmilestone
<ev> sorry
<ev> I meant un nominate for series
<cjwatson> jhunt: is anything happening with bug 580319 for 11.04?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 580319 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580319
<cjwatson> ev: the way to do that is to mark the series task wontfix
<cjwatson> ev: it'll then magically grow a non-series task
<ev> ohhh
<cjwatson> (yes, this is odd)
<ev> yeah
<ev> great ui there
<jhunt> not at the present. I spoke to Daviey earlier and since we are unsure if it occurs with isc-dhcp (v4) at this stage, we don't think it's in the running.
<jhunt> Presumably the milestone might need changing?
<cjwatson> jhunt: yes, that sounds like a good idea if it's no longer believed to occur
<cjwatson> probably simply unmilestone it
<cjwatson> all the other items on that list seem to be either non-vital, not ours, or being handled
<cjwatson> anything else people are concerned about for natty?
<ev> unity *rimshot*
<jhunt> cjwatson: I don't seem to have those powers.
<barry> ev: are you running natty natively on any mac laptop h/w?
<ev> *ahem* I uh *coughs*
<ev> I have this lovely Thinkpad next to my Mac
<ev> allow me to divert your attention over to it
<barry> ;)
<cjwatson> jhunt: I'll take care of it, then
<jhunt> cjwatson: thanks.
<cjwatson> I must admit, I expected to hate unity, and then switched to it to discover that (after a few configuration tweaks) the only noticeable effect on my workflow is that I have slightly more screen space for maximised terminals
 * cjwatson <- not a big user of desktop furniture
<barry> cjwatson: i'm with you!  i sort of like the doc sitting there, once i found a workaround for the dual-monitor bug
<barry> er, dock
<cjwatson> I just set it to autohide
<mvo> agreed, I like most of it, but I still don't see why the menu is not always visible for the apps, I whish there was a option for this. and FFM is a problem, but f10 is my friend here :)
<barry> after getting my normal two emacs windows side by side, i have just enough unused real-estate for that dock, so i pretty much just leave it there :)
<barry> mvo: agreed on that one!
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ev> Who's coming to the release sprint / party?
<cjwatson> I have no meeting agenda items for Oneiric since (a) holiday and (b) laser-focus on Natty, but I appreciate not everybody may be that way :-)
<doko> when should oneiric ready for uploads?
<cjwatson> I'll be at the release sprint, maybe party depending on how dead I am
<ev> I'm sure we can always find something to prop you up against :-P
<cjwatson> doko: I expect that I will open it for toolchain work either next Thursday (if time permits after the 11.04 release) or Friday
<cjwatson> the latter's a bank holiday, but I think I'll be at home
<jhunt> ev: I'll be at the sprint, but not sure about the party as I'm travelling back by train Thursday (unless I can grab a room somewhere)
<cjwatson> doko: so after that it's just a question of when you're ready
<ev> jhunt: sprint> awesome, party> RUBBISH
<ev> you're welcome to stay at mine
<doko> cjwatson: I am =)
<jhunt> ev: do you know if we'll have hot running coffee at the sprint?
<jhunt> ev: ta!
<ev> jhunt: experience tells me that you'll have to fight cjwatson for it
<ev> but no, probably not given how often we break coffee machines around here
<jhunt> ev: I'm not *that* brave!
<cjwatson> doko: I expect you can speed things up by arranging for us to be able to copy built binaries from a non-virtualised PPA
<ev> I keep putting in a request for a barista at the QBR
<ev> but they always ignore me
<cjwatson> (maybe, will need to check with wgrant et al)
<doko> ok, will do
<cjwatson> generally it takes max half a day to actually set up the archive - usually less, it's been getting gradually easier
<jhunt> ev: I'm sure it makes a difference. Those frothy hearts'n'all! :)
<ev> it'd be cheaper than constantly buying coffee machines from NASA
<jhunt> ev: wow, that rocket fuel stuff must make a strong brew. Just don't drink+smoke!
<ev> lol
<jhunt> (don't try that at home folks!)
<cjwatson> OK, I take it there's not much left :)
<cjwatson> one note on natty
<jhunt> sorry - we just ran clean out of jokes! :(
<cjwatson> pitti said earlier today that today was the last day for any big changes, and some little changes might get through tomorrow
<cjwatson> but sometime tomorrow (probably), we'll be building release candidate images, and the only other things that will be accepted are fixes for showstopper bugs
<cjwatson> so be warned. :-)
<barry> cjwatson: what's the cut of time today for bug fixes?  i don't think i have anything critical, but i might be able to get one or two in before cob
<cjwatson> if you have things that will slip past that (and don't *have* to be on the CD images for practical reasons, e.g. installer changes), then consider whether they can go to SRUs
 * barry nods
<cjwatson> barry: whatever time all the archive admins have gone to bed, I guess
<barry> cool
<cjwatson> oops, forgot to close this :-)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
<cjwatson> thanks all
<ev> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks
<mvo> thanks!
<jhunt> thanks
<barry> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-21
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110421
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110421
 * davidm thinks meetings are fun
<NCommander> who's here?
<ogra_> cocoroo
 * GrueMaster is semi-conscious.  
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to poke cjwatson on soyuz archive skew plan
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to poke cjwatson on soyuz archive skew plan
<NCommander> Done, got good link on how Debian handles this, will create spec and propose for UDS
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
 * davidm is sleeping in his chair in Austin
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra> NCommander, fix china :P
<ogra> looks good to me
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra> fine
<ogra> nothing else to report ... uploaded a package with 20 bugfixes on tue.
<janimo> hi
<GrueMaster> Latest revision seems to be a good improvement.  No issues yet.
<ogra> yay
<ogra> there are still some known crashers
<ogra> but they are SRUed already
 * janimo started using U-2d on the desktop today
<ogra> :)
<ogra> do you like it ?
<janimo> with such revolutionaly interfaces it's hard to tell what is a bug and what is a feature
<janimo> it stays out of my weay so I like it
<janimo> alt-tab has some funnies, I filed a bug o nit
<ogra> it misses some shine and bling but behaves nearly the same as 3D
<janimo> I thought I was using 3d until I ran ps ax and after filing the bugreport
<ogra> but yeah, hard to know whats a feature and whats a bug atm :)
<janimo> and was surprised it did not crash
<janimo> now I know it is because it was not the 3d ui :)
<JasonO> Hi. Is this the Ayatana  meeting?
<janimo> JasonO, arm
<GrueMaster> Can be somewhat irritating having the app menus on the status bar when using a 24" 1080p monitor and windowed apps.
<NCommander> janimo: no, ARM
<janimo> also dual screen may not yet be fully functional
<JasonO> janimo thnk you
<JasonO> *thanl
<JasonO> thank
<janimo> I have the panel on the right monitor, in blatant violation of the only Fitt's law I know
<ogra> lol
<ogra> anyway, move ?
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<rsalveti> not a lot to report on this for this week
<rsalveti> kernel bugs should all be an sru now, and published after the release, as an update
<ogra> ppisati_, ^^^
<ogra> NCommander, ^
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<rsalveti> I believe the main important bug now is the video sync lost, that ogra and GrueMaster were able to reproduce
<ogra> yeah
<janimo> nothing to report
<ogra> well, there *might* be MMC issues
<janimo> I do the usual giving back when new glib/gtk is uploaded
<ogra> given the amount of failures GrueMaster has seen
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, from GrueMaster's report
<GrueMaster> ogra: It only affects netbook.
<janimo> other than that main looks fine
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, maybe there is more IO load on netbook ;)
<rsalveti> while testing I was never able to face these MMC issues, but will try at least more 2, 3 times
<ogra> yeah, i havent seen them either
<GrueMaster> Oddly enough, most of the errors I have seen have no indication in the logs.
<ogra> GrueMaster, do you test with 8 and 16G as well ? (i thought so)
<GrueMaster> 4, 8, 16.  Class 4, 6, 10
<ogra> k
<ogra> just because of the issues on the pandaboard ML
<ogra> as long as thats covered ...
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> really bad atm
<GrueMaster> REALLY bad!
<ogra> thanks to final uploads
<GrueMaster> And out of date seed.
<ogra> and due to the fact that our seeds were totally out of sync
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2011-April/011679.html
<ogra> i uploaded that today
 * GrueMaster weeps
<ogra> ginn, pitivi, overlay-scrollbars, tsclient and vinagre as well as baobab and brasero will need special attention
<ogra> not sure how to test ginn
<ogra> its a gesture app
<ogra> so try jedi waves in front of your monitor or so
<janimo> wave menacincly at it
<janimo> if it does not break it is good
<ogra> yeah :)
<janimo> apparently ogra and I are from the same school of touch-QA
<GrueMaster> I'm sure I can find a way to break it.
<ogra> GrueMaster, keep that for may please :P
<GrueMaster> :(
<ogra> nothing more (thats bad enough news anyway)
<ogra> NCommander, move unless there are questions
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Not much to report.  Currently engaged in getting UCM configured for omap3 (in between massive updates).
 * ogra guesses he's still weeping
<ogra> ah, no :)
<GrueMaster> Netbook images have been broken last 3 days due to pool churn.
<ogra> wont get better before tomorrow i fear
<GrueMaster> Not much else to report.
<GrueMaster> great.
 * GrueMaster looks forward to another sunny weekend spent testing images in his office.
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra> you clearly need a balcony
<rsalveti> a new PVR driver was uploaded at the release PPA
<rsalveti> if you are using gles stuff, please test
<rsalveti> it's faster than previous one
<janimo> rsalveti, will these make the archives ?
<ogra> bug 736081 will be something we'll release with, if you see any weird bugs coming in after release, you should probably think of that one
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 736081 in telepathy-glib (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[armel] telepathy-glib segfaults in selftests during build" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736081
<rsalveti> janimo: probably not, I still need to incorporate some other changes
<rsalveti> like xrandr and exa optimizations
<ogra> (the title is misleading since its a gcc vs archive issue)
<rsalveti> that are still being developed inside ti
<janimo> rsalveti, ok. Is there no omap4 pvr in the archives now?
<ogra> its in the ppa only
<janimo> ok
<rsalveti> janimo: no, just for omap 3
<janimo> ogra, do they not upload gcc with the fix for natty?
<GrueMaster> On that, why doesn't that get pulled in on omap3 images?
<ogra> janimo, yes, but the whole archive is built with the option on
<janimo> ogra, ah sure. I think we found the serious ones though
<ogra> janimo, yeah, its just a plea for keeping the eyes open even after release
<ogra> i think the same though
<janimo> do we discuss the BP ideas in tonights team meeting?
<ogra> david was very concerned about it though
<janimo> the examples I saw (3 packages) almost all involved some sort of printf/vararg using functions
<ogra> well, there might be more
<ogra> using that
<janimo> those are frequent but not every package uses them
<ogra> right
<NCommander> anything else or can I close?
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:27.
<ogra> moo
<rsalveti> NCommander: and please, add ppisati at the kernel topic :-)
<ogra> thats what i meant by pointing upwards before :)
<JasonO_> What is the goal of this team?
<pitti> mdz, kees: seems it might just be the three of us for today's meeting?
<kees> pitti: it's in another hour, but I guess so?
<pitti> urgh
<kees> utc 1800
<pitti> that thing seems to get later and later
<pitti> I'm afraid I can't make that, or just for some 15 minutes
<pitti> well, there's nothing on the ML, and nothing on the agenda, so it might actually just take 15 mins :)
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: are you here?
<sabdfl> evening all
<pitti> good evening
<czajkowski> aloha
<kees> \o
<pitti> no mdz?
<pitti> do we have any topics at all?
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<pitti> Rick's item is done, mdz's too
<pitti> I finished the brainstorm review
<sabdfl> methinks it's all clear
<pitti> I also scanned the ML, nothing new
<pitti> no new community bugs
<sabdfl> ironic, since it's the first meeting i could make in months :-)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> looks like Easter holidays indeed
<kees> heh
<pitti> so, let's just carry this? I need to run now anyway
<sabdfl> that's a wrap
<pitti> I updated the wiki page for 2011-05-05
<pitti> yay UDS in-person meeting \o/
<pitti> happy Easter holidays everyone then!
<sabdfl> looking forward to that
<sabdfl> cheers!
<czajkowski> shortest meeting ever
<pitti> heh
<Keybuk> *cough* sorry, timezone
 * charlie-tca waves
 * micahg waves
<charlie-tca> Do you remember what mr_pouit thought about changing the meeting day?
<charlie-tca> How many are here for the Xubuntu Community Meeting?
<charlie-tca> micahg: If I can make sure mr_pouit is okay with Mondays, I am going to move the meetings to Monday at 19:00 UTC, I think, starting with the next cycle.
<charlie-tca> Well, for anyone here for the Xubuntu Meeting, we are postponing it. I will send a message to the ML about the rescheduled m,ee
<charlie-tca> meeting
<micahg> charlie-tca: is fine with me, I have a meeting at 17:00/18:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> I haven't actually checked the fridge yet, so that is tentative. It seems to be a good day, though
<micahg> charlie-tca: nope, DMB has that slot every other week
<charlie-tca> The only thing I have for today is discussion of the meeting times, and to announce the Natty is coming out next week.
<charlie-tca> hm, much as I dislike it, maybe move us to 18:00 UTC then?
<micahg> charlie-tca: that will work until the clock changes in the US, then it'll conflict with the security team
<charlie-tca> That s lunch time in Pacific and Mountain time zones, but ...
<pleia2> pretty much unavoidable
<charlie-tca> I thought security was on UTC?
<micahg> charlie-tca: nope, noon central time US
<charlie-tca> Then it will move with the time changes, won't it?
<charlie-tca> central changes same as the rest of the US
<micahg> charlie-tca: then it'll be 18:00 UTC :)
<charlie-tca> No, we are already in Daylight Saving time, next change we go back one hour
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> they stay at noon Central time...
<charlie-tca> Okay, we will take another gander at the time slots
<charlie-tca> Still got 21:00 open
<charlie-tca> Maybe we can switch it around, between 18:00 or 19:00 and 21:00 UTC?
<charlie-tca> Or, if we find a time that works well, I can get a logging bot in #xubuntu-devel and hold them there
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-22
 * greg-g waves
 * skaet waves
 * pleia2 waves
<jjohansen> hey skaet
 * charlie-tca waves
 * jjohansen waves
<Emerling> waves
 * Pendulum waves
 * Emerling waves
<skaet> hi jjohansen ;0
<skaet> hi charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Hello
<Emerling> Hi ElWuilMeR
<ElWuilMeR> Emerling, Hi 0/
<Emerling> comoe stas?
<Emerling> listo?
<greg-g> Hello everyone, we'll be starting shortly.
<julianarmando> Yeah
<julianarmando> Hello :)
<ElWuilMeR> Emerling, Si, un poco nervioso.!! Gracias por el apoyo ;)
<Emerling> por nada ,, tranquilo,,,
<Emerling> take easy
<tiagoscd> hello (:
<IngForigua> Noches/hello
<Emerling> hola IngForigua
<Emerling> hello tiagoscd
<abr4xas> IngForigua, o/
<Emerling> saludos abr4xas
<julianarmando> Hola IngForigua, Hola tiagoscd
<abr4xas> Emerling, o7
<greg-g> alright, lets get this show on the road!
<greg-g> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is greg-g.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<greg-g> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for April 21st, 2011. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<greg-g> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<greg-g> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<greg-g> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<greg-g> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<greg-g> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<greg-g> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<greg-g> is Matt here?
<greg-g> doesn't look like it..
<cyphermox> don't think so
<greg-g> skaet: you're up!
<greg-g> [TOPIC] skaet
<MootBot> New Topic:  skaet
<skaet> hi,
<highvoltage> good evening :)
<pleia2> welcome back skaet! :)
<greg-g> please introduce yourself (quickly, since we know you a bit)
<greg-g> :)
<skaet> Thanks.
<skaet> I've been working as release manager for Ubuntu for the last 6 months,
<greg-g> and I personally thank you for that, things have looked like a well run release, from my perspective
<maco> 8 months of involvement though. i remember debconf :)
<skaet> and have been working with the *buntu community and release team to try to ship out the images
<maco> or 9. i cant count.
<skaet> heh,  thanks maco,  I was ramping up for the first 2 months.
<skaet> got to help behind the scenes with Maverick,  and learn even more with Natty.
<skaet> :)
<greg-g> awesome
<charlie-tca> I want to say that I wholeheartedly endorse skaet for membership. She is a real asset to Ubuntu. It is always good to have someone so interested in making Ubuntu better.
<pleia2> thanks charlie-tca
<skaet> In addition,  I'm active with some community projects involving licensing and copyrights (SPDX).
<skaet> thanks charlie-tca :)
<greg-g> skaet: spdx sounds intersting, and up my alley, I have to confess I haven't looked into it much
<skaet> Have been trying to get involved in some of the loco activities, as time and opportunities permit.  and help where I can.
<pleia2> great :)
<greg-g> awesome
<highvoltage> Me too, she's always been calm and collected, even through a very rocky alpha series for natty I've never seen her once get angry or lose her cool. She's an outstanding release manager and works well with others and her work is clearly more than 'just a job' for her!
<greg-g> so yeah, since we're familiar, I think we can go ahead and vote now
<skaet> greg-g,  cool - happy to go into details with you on spdx.  www.spdx.org if you're interested.
<greg-g> [VOTE] skaet
<MootBot> Please vote on:  skaet.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cyphermox> +1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<pleia2> congrats and welcome skaet! :)
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard, skaet !
<cyphermox> congrats skaet  :)
<skaet> Thanks!   :D
<beuno> congrats skaet
<highvoltage> welcome skaet!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, skaet. You earned it!
<Pendulum> welcome and congrats skaet!
<tiagoscd> congrats skaet :)
<beuno> I was +1, for the record  :)
<skaet> looking forward to using that ubuntu id next week ;)
<julianarmando> Congratulations, skaet
<greg-g> skaet: oh heck yeah! :)
<greg-g> beuno: :P
<skaet> *blush*
<Emerling> skaet,  congratulations
<greg-g> alright, tiagoscd, you're up! :)
<greg-g> [topic] tiagoscd
<MootBot> New Topic:  tiagoscd
<tiagoscd> well, lets go
<tiagoscd> hello
<tiagoscd> i live in Brazil and i'm studying information systems
<tiagoscd> i started with free software in 2004, using Slackware Linux
<tiagoscd> in 2006, i had the first contact with Ubuntu, like you can see at wiki pag
<tiagoscd> according launchpad, i'm one of top contributors of brazilian portuguese language
<tiagoscd> i think that informations present on the wiki page are more detailed :)
<tiagoscd> thats it!
<greg-g> awesome
<greg-g> pardon me while I poke around your wiki and LP pages a bit :)
<tiagoscd> greg-g, ok
<tiagoscd> i was indicated by Andre_Gondim as coordinatr on ubuntu-sc loco team this month
<pleia2> tiagoscd: have you been part of any events with the Brazilian team?
<greg-g> tiagoscd: how do you plan on making your LoCo better and attracting more members?
<beuno> tiagoscd, where's the Ubuntu-SC LoCo team from?
<tiagoscd> last year, i talked about ubuntu in a popular regional congress, called solisc (http://www.solisc.org.br)
<tiagoscd> greg-g, to support ubuntu here i pretend to promote flisol events at santa catarina state, as well making events to divulgate the OS and the ubuntu-br team
<tiagoscd> beuno, from Santa Catarina state
<tiagoscd> a state in the south of brazil
 * beuno notes that "pretend" in spanish and portugues  means "intend"
<greg-g> beuno: thanks :)
<tiagoscd> beuno, tks
<pleia2> tiagoscd: great wiki page :)
<tiagoscd> pleia2, thanks :)
<greg-g> well, I think we're ready
<greg-g> [vote] tiagoscd
<MootBot> Please vote on:  tiagoscd.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<greg-g> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<beuno> \o/  welcome tiagoscd
<tiagoscd> wow, very nice o/
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, tiagoscd !
<pleia2> congrats tiagoscd!
<tiagoscd> tks
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, tiagoscd
<Pendulum> welcome tiagoscd!
<Emerling> tiagoscd, felcitaciones
<julianarmando> Congratulations tiagoscd :)
<greg-g> alright, you're up, cmmtessier! :)
<cmmtessier> hello
<greg-g> [topic] cmmtessier
<MootBot> New Topic:  cmmtessier
<cyphermox> tiagoscd, welcome, and keep up the good work!
<cmmtessier> I'm with the Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo
<cmmtessier> here's my wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/charlenetessier
<tiagoscd> tks all for this!!
<greg-g> tiagoscd: :) you're very welcome
<cmmtessier> sorry here the correct link
<cmmtessier> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharleneTessier
<pleia2> wow, I had no idea the Vancouver LoCo was doing all this
<greg-g> cmmtessier: intersting, you guys are doing advocacy at the farmer's market?
<cmmtessier> yes- we do face to face marketing
<beuno> cmmtessier, you seem to have an impresive track record there, both in amount of work and creativity
<pleia2> cmmtessier: do you have a link to the NURG?
<cmmtessier> asking people what is ubuntu and if they know anything about the community
<cyphermox> cmmtessier, just curious, I haven't seen you in the #ubuntu-ca channel, (and honestly haven't really checked the mailing lists so much), do you have plans in collaborating with people from other cities in ubuntu-ca for organizing events and such?
<greg-g> oh, you worked on the gwibber social networking guide? awesome!
<cmmtessier> I'll get you a link to the NURG
<cmmtessier> my focus hasn't been in chat - it has many be face to face marketing. We do have a delegate that participates in the ubuntu-ca irc channel. However I'm not that delegate
<greg-g> cmmtessier: that's quite alright :) not everyone can do IRC
<cyphermox> cmmtessier, fair enough, i understand some aren't so much up to IRC :)
<maco> face-to-face is good :)  people on irc *already* know about ubuntu!
<cmmtessier> exactly - I really like to get the word out to those that haven't heard of Ubuntu
<maco> cmmtessier: just wondering for logistics type stuff...does it cost y'all anything to have a table at the farmers market?  (my loco goes to a folk festival)
<maco> (this is unrelated to my vote, i'm just curious)
<cmmtessier> It cost less than $100 for the season
<maco> oh nice
<greg-g> not bad
<maco> it costs us $100 for the one *day* at the folk festival!
<greg-g> so, I think the board is ready (and just a reminder folks, only board members vote, please :) )
<cmmtessier> we are planning to hit some festivals if the price point is right but we do have some free festivals we can enter into.
<greg-g> [vote] cmmtessier
<MootBot> Please vote on:  cmmtessier.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<greg-g> +1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
 * greg-g pokes beuno 
<beuno> er
<beuno> +1
<beuno> of course
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<beuno> (sorry, tests passed \o/)
<pleia2> great work cmmtessier, welcome!
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, cmmtessier ! Keep up the great work!
<Pendulum> congrats cmmtessier!
<cmmtessier> Thank you
<tiagoscd> congrats cmmtessier =)
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, cmmtessier
<IngForigua> cmmtessier: great
<maco> cmmtessier: by the way, if you ever do decide to hang out on irc a bit, give #ubuntu-women a visit
<julianarmando> Congratulations :)
<greg-g> alrighty, ElWuilMeR, you ready?
<Emerling> cmmtessier,  :d congrat..
<cmmtessier> will do thanks!
<Pendulum> cmmtessier: and #ubuntu-women-project ;-)
<cyphermox> very cool, look forward to hearing more about the vancouver loco and probably show up there at some point :)
<IngForigua> good luck ElWuilMeR
<ElWuilMeR> greg-g, Si/Yes
<greg-g> [topic] ElWuilMeR
<MootBot> New Topic:  ElWuilMeR
<highvoltage> what a nick :)
<greg-g> please introduce yourself, ElWuilMeR  :)
<ElWuilMeR> Well my name is Wuilmer Bolivar
<ElWuilMeR> I have 21 years, recently completed on April 2, the version of ubuntu with which was started with 10.04, was a CD I ordered in Canonical and after 3 months was when I got it installed and started to upgrade to version 10.10, for not knowing how to use it started to look for information in this reach the channel # ubuntu-irc is where a lot pasiencia helped me resolve my doubts, I stay on channel added to favorite since then I belong to
<ElWuilMeR>  the group, enter the team as an official member a few days, and started to help in the same way I helped myself.
<ElWuilMeR> I currently participate in:
<ElWuilMeR> Team: ubuntu-ve
<ElWuilMeR> Mi wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WuilmerBolivar
<ElWuilMeR> Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~elwuilmer
<ElWuilMeR> Collaborate in:
<ElWuilMeR> Reporte de bugs:
<ElWuilMeR> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~elwuilmer
<ElWuilMeR> Respondiendo preguntas en answers:
<ElWuilMeR> https://answers.launchpad.net/~elwuilmer
<greg-g> ElWuilMeR: awesome, do you have anyone who knows your work that is an ubuntu member already? (just curious)
<Emerling> Friends,  pleia2 ,beuno, Hello, Greetings, I'm here to give support to ElWuilMeR is a great help in everything related to ubuntu-ve team
<ElWuilMeR> greg-g, Emerling
<pleia2> Emerling: do the CharlasIrc classes happen in #ubuntu-charlas or a -ve channel?
<pleia2> thanks Emerling
<Emerling> you welcome, yes he is god and tutorial video
<Emerling> and byour blogs page and manual documents
<greg-g> sorry, sometimes we (the board) are quiet in here when we are reading all the documentation/pages on the applicant :)
<greg-g> yeah, I liked seeing the youtube video :)
<pleia2> err
<pleia2> ElWuilMeR: do the CharlasIrc classes happen in #ubuntu-charlas or a -ve channel?
<pleia2> darn tab :)
<beuno> ElWuilMeR, so, what interests you about Ubuntu specifically?
 * IngForigua gives a strong support to ElWuilMeR
<greg-g> thanks much, IngForigua :)
<IngForigua> a good participation in venezuela
<ElWuilMeR> pleia2, in #ubuntu-ve junto a IngForigua e SergioMeneses
<Emerling> he participed en irc ubuntu-ve channel
<ElWuilMeR> beuno, I was struck by his organization, the way it works and I would like to be part of it and help more people to join.
<greg-g> alrighty, I think we're ready to vote
<greg-g> [vote] ElWuilMeR
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ElWuilMeR.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<beuno> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from beuno. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<greg-g> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cyphermox> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, ElWuilMeR ! :)
<maco> +1
 * IngForigua gives a bigggggggg beer to ElWuilMeR
<Pendulum> congrats ElWuilMeR!
<maco> oops i missed :P
<julianarmando> Congrats
<beuno> bienvenido ElWuilMeR   :)
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, ElWuilMeR
<Emerling> me debes 30 cervezs
<pleia2> welcome ElWuilMeR :)
<Emerling> felciidades amigo
<highvoltage> welcome ElWuilMeR!
<greg-g> maco: oh, my bad! :(
<julianarmando> Felicidades :) CompaÃ±ero
<tiagoscd> boa sorte ElWuilMeR
<Emerling> hace 7 mese digiste quieroser el nuevo ubuntu memebr en venezuela
<abr4xas> ElWuilMeR, felicidades!! :D
<Emerling> y lo lograste
<greg-g> ready to go jjohansen ?
<jjohansen> yeha
<greg-g> [topic] jjohansen
<MootBot> New Topic:  jjohansen
<IngForigua> buena papa que viva suramerica carajo!!!!!
<jjohansen> Hi I am John Johansen, I have been kicking around Ubuntu for a while, since about Gutsy (blame Kees).  I am an upstream dev for the AppArmor project and for the last 2 years I have been on the Kernel team.
<jjohansen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnJohansen
<ElWuilMeR> greg-g, Pendulum, IngForigua, beuno, charlie-tca, pleia2, julianarmando, tiagoscd Muchas gracias a todos....
<jjohansen> oops s/yeha/yeah/
<greg-g> ElWuilMeR: you are very welcome, thank YOU for all of your great work!
<jjohansen> :)
<greg-g> jjohansen: ahh, any friend of Kees.... :)
<jjohansen> hehe :)
<jjohansen> he does have a way of roping people in
<kees> :)
<pleia2> jjohansen: how long have you been working on AppArmor?
<greg-g> oh, he's here ;)
<jjohansen> pleia2: on and off for 7 years
<pleia2> wow, nice :)
<jjohansen> was doing some gcc compiler hardening work for a while in there too
<greg-g> jjohansen: handwriting recognition? how's that going?
<jjohansen> ah slow its a project I started back in grad school, and it keeps getting preempted by work and life
<jjohansen> I don't think I have worked on it in 2 years
<jjohansen> I gave a presentation on it about 3.5 years ago
<jjohansen> at a labs conference in prague but it isn't working atm
<greg-g> cool, sounds interesting, at least
 * maco wishes lp's karma page went further back. you filled it up with the last week!
<jjohansen> yeah its an interesting field, patent mindfield though
<jjohansen> hehe there have been a few bugs in the last couple weeks
<Pendulum> kees: I assume you're here to support jjohansen?
<kees> Pendulum: yup!
<Pendulum> jjohansen: anyone else around to cheer for you? (I have to admit that I was disappointed by the lack of testimonials on your wiki)
<charlie-tca> Even though I have had time to do a written testamonial, I have watched jjohansen work with the kernel and in bugs for a long time. He really does a fantastic job at it. I recommend him highly for membership.
<mdeslaur> I am here to cheer jjohansen!
<pleia2> thanks kees, charlie-tca :)
<Pendulum> thanks!
 * cyphermox is ready to vote
 * sbeattie is also here to cheer jjohansen!
<greg-g> alright, here we go
<maco> oh *now* they come out of the woodwork :P
<greg-g> [vote] jjohansen
<MootBot> Please vote on:  jjohansen.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<abr4xas> +1
<cyphermox> +1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cyphermox. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Pendulum> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from abr4xas. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<MootBot> +1 received from Pendulum. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<greg-g> oh right, beuno passes on canonical folks :)
 * beuno abstains because jjohansen is a..
<beuno> right  :)
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard, jjohansen !
<jjohansen> thanks
<pleia2> just a reminder, voting is for board members :)
<beuno> jjohansen, but you seem to have earned it very well  :)
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, jjohansen!
<greg-g> (friendly remind......yep)
<tiagoscd> welcome jjohansen o/
<Emerling> jjohansen,  congratulations
<mdeslaur> congrats jjohansen!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, jjohansen. About time, too :-)
<IngForigua> gratz
<micahg> congrats jjohansen
<julianarmando> Congratulations
<Pendulum> congrats jjohansen!
<jjohansen> thanks again everyone
<greg-g> alright, julianarmando, are you ready to go?
<julianarmando> Yeah
<greg-g> [topic] julianarmando
<MootBot> New Topic:  julianarmando
<julianarmando> Hi everyone
<IngForigua> good luck my friend :D
<greg-g> hello :)
<julianarmando> my name is Julian Bohorquez (julianarmando) I am a student of engineering system, currently in 4th semester. I'm from Colombia, a city named IbaguÃ©. This is my Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/julianarmando. This is my page on Launchpad https://launchpad.net/~julianarmando
<julianarmando> Thanks IngForigua
<julianarmando> My first acquaintance with ubuntu happens when I attend a talk, which gave away CDs of Ubuntu 5.10 in 2006
<julianarmando> I am currently a member of Ubuntu-Co community, contributed to the moderation of the main mailing list Ubuntu-Co. Contributed with lectures on Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server. I contribute to my current project to restore the "Podcast Ubuntu-Co" and with my proposal for constant monitoring practice processes within the community.
 * beuno spots all the microsoft coursed over the last few years and giggles
<julianarmando> I am preparing for certification in Prometric as LPI 101 and UCP (Ubuntu Certified Professional exam) :)
 * IngForigua Hi, I'm IngForigua https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ingforigua, I'm member of the ubuntu Colombia council (one of the most active localteam in suramerica), I give my full support for Julian to ubuntu membership
<cyphermox> oh nice, member of the columbian team ;)
<julianarmando> I know and work with Ubuntu since 7.10 and I have attended and organized several events around the free software, which has spread like Ubuntu: FLISOL (http://ibague.flisol.info), (http://ubuntu-co.com/node/972),  DELM and the Campus Party Colombia
<greg-g> is there a link for the podcast?
<julianarmando> yeah, but is in charge of another person at this time
<julianarmando> the project is stopped
 * Emerling I am Ubuntu member, in Loco Venezuela Team , and I know about owner in ubuntu-irc colombian team, in important mmetings  for julianarmando 
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> awesome, thanks IngForigua and Emerling :)
<IngForigua> the podcast is one of the proyects in colombia we now work hard for ubuntu.shapado.com
<julianarmando> My main project for the diffusion of Ubuntu 11.4 is give a lecture entitled (Ubuntu 11.4 - Command Line, Features and Community Ubuntu Colombia),  (Introduction to Free Software, Virtual Machines and the Ubuntu distribution - IbaguÃ©, Colombia â 2011) and  (Introduction to Web Servers and Web Programming. (Ubuntu Server and programming with software open source)) the three conferences were issued in the university whe
<IngForigua> http://ubuntu.shapado.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu.shapado.com/
<beuno> julianarmando, so, what does the future look like for you?
<julianarmando> the future is to spread Ubuntu by lectures. talking to people and participating in events.
<pleia2> that's great, very important work :)
<julianarmando> I'd like to start a process of documentation of Ubuntu Video
<greg-g> alright, i think we're ready.. (done with the meeting within an hour?! crazy!)
<greg-g> [vote] julianarmando
<MootBot> Please vote on:  julianarmando.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<julianarmando> Contribute to the Ubuntu-co.com page and the wiki
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<maco> +1
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<Pendulum> +1
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<beuno> +1
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<cyphermox> +1
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<greg-g> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<cyphermox> impressive work
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, julianarmando !
<pleia2> congrats and welcome julianarmando!
<cyphermox> congrats julianarmando
<IngForigua> jajajajaja cerveza para todos carajo!!!! viva colombia y venezuela!!!!!!
<julianarmando> thank you very much
<greg-g> :)
<Pendulum> congrats julianarmando!
<beuno> bienvenido julianarmando!  :)
<julianarmando> gracias a todos :)
<Emerling> party
<greg-g> IngForigua++
<ElWuilMeR> IngForigua, jajajaja que viva...!!!
<Emerling> latinoamerica
<tiagoscd> congrats julianarmando!
<Emerling> felciidades julianarmando
<IngForigua> Emerling: yeahhhhhh!!!!!!!
<julianarmando> thanks to all
<julianarmando> gracias Emerling :D gracias a todos
<ElWuilMeR> congrats julianarmando! Bienvenidos, un gran dia para Venezuela y Colombia hoy :D
<greg-g> thanks everyone for coming and congratulation to all the new members!
<greg-g> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:55.
<beuno> thanks everyone, it was a great turnout!
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<maco> Wow, 6 new members in less than 60 minutes
<IngForigua> maco: xD
<IngForigua> thank every1
<IngForigua> byeeee
<highvoltage> clearly the americas board is in top form :)
<tiagoscd> :)
<charlie-tca> Congratulations, julianarmando
 * skaet waves
 * joshuahoover waves
<ogasawara> o/
<dbarth> hi skaet
<skaet> cool well there will be a few folk around...  so lets start
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> .
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> A big THANK YOU to all the teams for the hard work so far on the release.
<skaet> Release is looking MUCH better than it was a month ago - well done!  :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Images are functionally complete at this point, except for the language packs and docs which will be updated in tomorrow's images.
<skaet> .
<skaet> We've got several 0-day SRU's lined up, for those fixes which couldn't make it in time.
<skaet> If you see any issues come up, that you're worried about in the testing, please flag it in #ubuntu-testing,  and/or #ubuntu-release.
<skaet> any overall questions before we get into round table?
<skaet> reminder of course that release is 4/28 ;)
<skaet> ok,  lets head in to round table.
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> Hi all o/
<skaet> hi jibel,  how's it looking?
<jibel> last week dbarth asked a question about the bootchart so lets start with it.
<jibel> here is the trend
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/NattyBootchartMetrics.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/NattyBootchartMetrics.png
<jibel> We can see a peak 1 month ago, and boot time back to normal with an average boot time of 27 seconds starting from the beginning of april. Data for this week are not shown in this graph but are available at http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/ and show no regression compared to the previous week.
<jibel> * Testing Status
<jibel>  * Automatic Upgrade Testing mostly white
<jibel> http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/current/
<jibel>  * Desktop Testing:
<jibel> * No new bug found. All the high importance bugs found are fixed.
<jibel> * Natty Final Candidates Smoke Test
<jibel> * Upgrades:
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Desktop and Server/Wubi/Kubuntu i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Xubuntu: ongoing
<jibel> * Install:
<jibel>   * Wubi i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Alternate i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Ubuntu Server i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Xubuntu Desktop i386/amd64: Passed
<jibel>   * Kubuntu Live Session marked as failed with 2 serious bugs.
<jibel> Needs verification.
<jibel> bug 557261
<jibel> bug 656486
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557261 in casper (Ubuntu) "The session live persistent with USB don't start, error in the prompt initramfs" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656486 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu Natty) "error de Video - [DRM: radeon_ttm_backend_bind] * * ERROR no pudo enlazar 1.772 pÃ¡ginas" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656486
<jibel> * update-manager release upgrade review:
<jibel> 1 bug found and fixed: bug 760713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 760713 in nss (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04 fails: sunbird/karmic holds back libnss3" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760713
<jibel> main issue reported: people who install xorg-edger PPA can't upgrade (and it is expected). The fix is to run ppa-purge before the upgrade.
<jibel> Other bug that needs attention:
<jibel> bug 738555
<jibel> we would like an answer to bdmurray's questions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 738555 in Zeitgeist Framework "zeitgeist-daemon crashed with IOError in _write_to_disk(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/royg/.local/share/zeitgeist/datasources.pickle'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/738555
<jibel> and finally
<jibel> * QA Dashboard
<jibel> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel> linux, unity, compiz and banshee are in both last day and last 7 days top 5
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<jibel> ..
<skaet> thanks jibel!
<skaet> Looks like we're in reasonable shape overall, with a couple of areas of concern to keep an eye on.
<GrueMaster> I'm seeing a failure in oem-config-debconf on armel headless images.  Debugging now.
<skaet> jibel,  I'll digest the details and get back to you after the meeting.
<jibel> k
<skaet> GrueMaster,  thanks for flagging.   Please keep me informed of the results from today's debugging.
<GrueMaster> I should know more  in an hour.
<skaet> GrueMaster, cool.   Are the other arm images affected or is it just headless?
<GrueMaster> I have netbook inatalling on another platform now.  No failures yet.
<skaet> coolio
<ScottK> Since we know there will be a respin tomorrow for language packs, is it OK to accept other changes in the queue for significant bug fixes?
<skaet> ScottK,  yes, if it is fixing significant bugs - however please consider if zero day update will work as well.
<ScottK> I've been telling people to upload to -proposed, but there are a few things in the queue that might be worth getting in.
<ScottK> As a reminder: Unseeded Universe/Multiverse is still open for uploads.
<skaet> ScottK,  trying to keep scope of impact changes down right now.   Do you have candidates in mind?  if so,  lets talk about it on #u-release after meeting?
<ScottK> OK.
<skaet> any other questions for jibel?
<skaet> is there any one around from hardware certification?
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> hi
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Last week we fixed a few apparmor profiling bugs.
<jdstrand> Also performed our install audits. Only interesting change between maverick and natty is that if you install the print server task on a server install, you get avahi-daemon, which pulls in dbus (which is a lot of new code and bigger attack surface). aiui, his was added so OS X could find Ubuntu printers (465916). Brought up to server team.
<jdstrand> We uploaded a few security fixes, but are now queueing up non-critical updates in our security ppa.
<jdstrand> For oneiric it might be interesting to not build CDs with the assumption that -proposed, -updates and -security are empty. aiui, right now that is the case (correct me if I'm wrong). If we build CDs without those pockets, developers can start queuing these things for 0-day updates instead of trying to cram last minute things into the release.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand!
<skaet> glad things are looking reasonably calm for the release.  :)
<ScottK> jdstrand: Normally we just let them sit in unapproved until we're _sure_ we have the final images.
<ScottK> No reason to delay uploading to -proposed.
<jdstrand> ScottK: yes, which works for -proposed (I noticed yesterday). does that work for -security too?
<ScottK> No idea.
<skaet> jdstrand, ScottK - topic area for UDS?
<ScottK> skaet: I think part of a slightly larger topic.  Let's discuss after.
<jdstrand> skaet: it could certainly be added as a discussion point, it would not take too long though :)
<skaet> ScottK, jdstrand - sounds good.  :)   Will talk about it later.
<skaet> any other questions for jdstrand?
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> We have very few specific work items left, mostly non-release related and no remaining task is release criticial.  The Natty kernel remains at v2.6.38-8.42 which represents the v2.6.38.2 mainline stable update.  We do not intend to upload a newer kernel before release.  As a result, we're already queueing bug fixes and a v2.6.38.3 stable patch set for the first kernel SRU.  We have no plans for a day-0 kernel upload at t
<ogasawara> his time and will target our first kernel SRU 1-2 weeks post release.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda, we've properly milestoned each to either natty-updates or re-targetted to Oneiric.  Specific details are as follows:
<ogasawara> #542660 still present, needs deeper debug; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #608312 kernel dev working on patches; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #625364 no longer an issue for the original bug reporter.  Closed Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #634487 kernel dev able to reproduce, currently under further investigation; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #674984 fixed with latest kernel; Closed Fix Released.
<ogasawara> #686388 patches available, awaiting test results; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #708286 currently under investigation; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #710738 Fix Committed, will land in first kernel SRU; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #712075 problem remains with the latest kernels, needs further investigation; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #719620 suspected BIOS issue, awaiting testing with BIOS update; milestoned to natty-updates to keep it on the radar.
<ogasawara> #735126 Fix Committed, will land in first kernel SRU; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #746924 needs further investigation; re-targetted to Oneiric.
<ogasawara> #747090 Fix Committed, will land in first kernel SRU; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #751689 appears to be more of a BIOS issue, but might be possible to quirk around in the kernel.  further investigation needed; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #754711 currently under investigation; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #754712 currently under investigation and awaiting feedback from reporter; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> #758411 unreproducible at the moment; milestoned to natty-updates to keep it on the radar.
<ogasawara> #761082 currently under investigation; milestoned to natty-updates.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
<skaet> Glad to hear no zero day respins look necessary.  :)
<ogasawara> knock on wood
 * skaet knocks loudly on wood...
<skaet> Will digest the above info on the bugs and get back to you offline if there are questions.
<ogasawara> sounds good
<skaet> Appreciate the fact that the bugs have been targetted to updates and Oneiric.  :)
<skaet> any other questions for ogasawara ?
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update -??
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update -??
 * skaet knows cjwatson and ev are on holiday today.   
<skaet> anyone else around?
<ScottK> 0/
<skaet> yup ScottK
<ScottK> For Kubuntu I think we are generally in good shape.  I see the current images are marked failed, but reading the bugs, they don't look Kubuntu specific.
<ScottK> It would be really good if someone from foundations could at least verify they are/aren't a significant issue for release and the decided if they need to call someone in to fix them.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> robbiew, ^^ ??
<robbiew> skaet: ack
<robbiew> slangasek, ^^^??
<robbiew> :P
<skaet> ScottK,  will take a pass at them too.  Do you have some specific numbers you can post at the end of this meeting?
<robbiew> kidding...will look
<skaet> robbiew,  1 more week...  lol
<ScottK> skaet: They are the ones that QA reported earlier in the meeting.
 * skaet nods
<ScottK> bug 557261
<ScottK> bug 656486
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 557261 in casper (Ubuntu) "The session live persistent with USB don't start, error in the prompt initramfs" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/557261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656486 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu Natty) "error de Video - [DRM: radeon_ttm_backend_bind] * * ERROR no pudo enlazar 1.772 pÃ¡ginas" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656486
<skaet> ok,  thanks.
 * skaet will be going through the logs for a couple of hours today.
<ScottK> Any other Kubuntu questions?
<skaet> ScottK,  do the priorities look correct to you on those bugs, given they're causing tests to fail?
<ScottK> skaet: I don't have an opinion on that.  My major concern is those aren't Kubuntu specific things, so they should affect all images.
<skaet> ScottK,  hmm... if they're systemic,  they should probably be high.  Will look into later then.
<ScottK> A lot of it depends on how important USB persistence is, for example.
 * skaet nods
<skaet> anyone else have questions for ScottK?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - ??   robbiew?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - ??   robbiew?
<skaet> smoser?
<robbiew> we're fine..ship it
<skaet> :)
<smoser>  i defer to the leader
<skaet> smoser,  when will the images for UEC/EC2 be landing?
<smoser> we have builds from today that we can use
<skaet> will you need to be picking up the langpack updates?
<smoser> http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/20110422/ . i dont know about langpack updates, but i would assume that they're not relevant.  we dont explicitly install langpacks.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/20110422/ . i dont know about langpack updates, but i would assume that they're not relevant.  we dont explicitly install langpacks.
<skaet> smoser,  cool.  you're in good shape then.   thanks.
<smoser> http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/20110422/natty-server-uec-amd64.manifest is the list of packages, check to see if the updated packages are in that list.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/server/natty/20110422/natty-server-uec-amd64.manifest is the list of packages, check to see if the updated packages are in that list.
<skaet> will do.
<skaet> any other questions for smoser, robbiew?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - ??  kenvandine?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - ??  kenvandine?
 * skaet looks around for any rep from desktop,  pitti is on vacation.
<skaet> ok, moving on...
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team- joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team- joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> all our high natty bugs that we wanted to get out for final are released
<joshuahoover> we have some bugs that are going to be nominated for an sru after final release but none are important enough to rush...i'm continuing to review the list of candidates today
<joshuahoover> and that is it
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> Thanks joshuahoover!   very good to know.  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<kenvandine> skaet, sorry... pitti didn't ask me to cover so i didn't prepare :)
<skaet> kenvandine,  no worries.   any overall impressions or concerns?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine is happy
<skaet> :)
 * skaet is happy then too.
<kenvandine> if you guys have questions for me, just let me know
<kenvandine> i'll do my best to answer
 * skaet looks around?   any questions?
<sladen> I can dive in from a Design PoV;  everything now pushed back to SRU/0day (even if others would like sooner)
<sladen> Design polish; all SRU-targetted rather than release.
<sladen> #387828 - Compiz staticswitcher Alt-Tab minimised icons are over-scaled
<sladen> #740864 - Light-Themes<->Gedit highlighting interaction (interate/reduce current patch)
<sladen> #758753 - Dash: App and File search category headers show square icon with lense rather than star and scissors
<sladen> #760656 - Launcher: disable built-in grey icon overlays
<sladen> #767186 - nm-signal-* icons break nm-applet (spams ~/.xsession-errors)
<sladen> #768583 - Onboard (on-screen keyboard): better constrast + Ubuntu theme
<sladen> ..
<skaet> thanks sladen.  :)
<skaet> Will follow up with you off line about some of them, and what needs to be release note documented.
<skaet> any questions for sladen?
<skaet> ScottK gave us a bit of a summary earlier on Kubuntu,  anything more to add?   or any questions on Kubuntu?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth> hi
<skaet> hi
<dbarth> the report is short
<dbarth> it's here at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus#preview
<dbarth> mainly we've sorted the 0day-sru candidates
<dbarth> and moved all the rest to either srus or de-scoped for natty
<dbarth> 0day sru candidates are at: https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.8.12
<dbarth> there are 3 mostly
<dbarth> #768178 - compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in nux::IOpenGLShaderProgram::Begin()
<dbarth> #753971 - Display garbled upon restoring original resolution or connecting external displays
<dbarth> #728927 - Unity Min,Max,Close buttons not available in Libreoffice
<dbarth> the last one is a target opportunity, it can go as a normal sru
<dbarth> the 2nd one is an HW cert team priority that we're still investigating
 * skaet nods
<dbarth> so will also probably slide to the SRU list
<dbarth> the 1st one is the one worrying me
<dbarth> i've checked that with didrocks and jibel this morning
<dbarth> read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/737792/comments/18
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 737792 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGABRT in Glib::exception_handlers_invoke()" [High,Confirmed]
<dbarth> basically, i feel it doesn't block the livecd from the reports we've got
<dbarth> the action we've taken is to re-test the livecd on the HW where other related issues could be exposed more frequently
<dbarth> and check if the issue is indeed a visual flicker (when compiz restarts)
<dbarth> or if it ever can enter a longer loop
<dbarth> we don't have any evidences about that problem turning into a loop
<dbarth> and for the rest
<dbarth> no other pending FFEs
<skaet> :)
<dbarth> and the SRU list is not too big
<dbarth> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth!   and thank you to the team for all the hard work and bug fixes over the last few weeks!!
<dbarth> thanks for all the support we have received from everyone here
<dbarth> really appreciated
<skaet> dbarth,  I think you and I will be talking a fair bit for the release notes next week.  What's you're availability?
<dbarth> right
<dbarth> all of those SRU candidates need at least to be documented
 * skaet nods
<dbarth> and we have a couple of workarounds that have been documented in the bug comments
<dbarth> plus the 4th open item on the 0day-srus
<dbarth> which i assigned to me, to update the HW reqs list (and the release notes that go with it)
<skaet>  will you be online on monday?
<dbarth> hmm, end of the afternoon yes, ie late for you in the morning
<dbarth> i can prepare someting this week-end defeintely
<dbarth> definetely
<skaet> dbarth, I'll be in london next week,  so will look for you to compare notes on monday afternoon then.
<skaet> anything you can get me over the weekend would be much appreciated.
<dbarth> skaet: ok will do
<skaet> feel free to just edit into technicalOverview if that's easiest.
<dbarth> ok
<skaet> I'll be scrubbing it down from beta2 and retargetting it for the release this afternoon.  :)
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> any other questions for dbarth?
<dbarth> ok
<dbarth> skaet: send me a link please once you've made that first pass
<skaet> dbarth, will do.
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ??   GrueMaster ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ??   GrueMaster ?
<skaet> I think we got most of the status earlier,  so unless there are other questions will move on.
<GrueMaster> oem-config on headless is not working.  It is crashing/restarting after probpting for the timezone.  Looking over the changelogs now.
<GrueMaster> netbook appears to be working fine on omap4 so far.  Install went well without any glitches, and it is sitting at the desktop waiting for me to continue testing.
<GrueMaster> There are some known bugs that will be SRU, but ogra has the list of what has and hasn't been fixed for release.
<GrueMaster> Bug 651302 can be documented and fixed with SRU.  Bug 753071 is slated for SRU.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651302 in alsa-lib (Ubuntu Natty) "No sound in omap (beagle, beagleXM)." [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 753071 in linux (Ubuntu) "Include DRM OMAP driver to have proper EDID detection" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753071
<GrueMaster> As is bug 758486.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 758486 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "omapdss DISPC error on Panda platform" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758486
<GrueMaster> There are probably others, but they can be documented/SRU fixed.  If I find any critical issues today, you'll hear my screems.  :P
<skaet> GrueMaster,  thanks!   Glad to know you've got a loud voice.    Flag me if you get stalled at some point today on the OEM config issue.
<skaet> any questions for GrueMaster ?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Always more to do, but it seems like we're in pretty good shape.
<ScottK> Unseeded Universe/Multiverse is still open for bug fixing, so please don't hold back.
<ScottK> From here I'll try to leave one unseeded package in queue in case you need a package build to stimulate a publisher run.
<ScottK> (need someone to upload one first though)
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK
<skaet> sounds good re the unseeded package approach.
<skaet> any one have questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<skaet> JamieBen1ett, ^ ??
<skaet> hmm,  not sure if he's around or not,  since holiday for him too.
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
<rickspencer3> kudos! 11.04 is looking nice, and seems we have some time to validate
<skaet> :)
<rickspencer3> :)
<skaet> Just wanted to say thank you again for all the hard work to get 11.04 out the door.
<sladen> my kudos of the week goes to cjwatson for a single character fix to the 16-bit assembly loader code in grub2 that enabled memtest86 to work again
<skaet> There will be no release meetings now, until after UDS,  at which point we'll start meeting to discuss Oneiric.
<skaet> sladen,  re: cjwatson +1  :)
<skaet> anyone else?
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:09.
<skaet> Thanks all!
<JasonO> skaet How do you get involved with this team? Test images?
<JasonO> Arschloch
<sladen> jjohansen: http://qa.ubuntu.com/testing/
<sladen> JasonO: http://qa.ubuntu.com/testing/
<JasonO> sladen Thank you.
<jjohansen> sladen: nice to se that :)
<skaet> jibel, ^^  JasonO's interested in helping out.  :)
<jibel> JasonO, Welcome! join #ubuntu-testing
<JasonO> jibel I am on the Ubuntu testing team.
<JasonO> I think?
<ScottK> Being on a team isn't a pre-requisite to doing testing.
<JasonO> OKeu
<JasonO> *okey
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-23
<em> j/w 3
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-04-24
<nhandler> topyli, jussi, tsimpson, elky: Who is around?
<tsimpson> \o
<topyli> \o
<topyli> i suppose jussi will also join, give him a minute
<jussi> sorry, Im here
<jussi> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:03. The chair is jussi.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jussi> [topic] Add eir to #ubuntu
<MootBot> New Topic:  Add eir to #ubuntu
<jussi> nhandler:
<nhandler> tsimpson: Do you want to give a brief summary about the eir-ubottu integration progress?
<jussi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal#Add%20eir%20to%20%23ubuntu
<tsimpson> jussi: you forgot the fixed items
<jussi> oh yeah
<jussi> hang on.
<jussi> No new bugs
<topyli> zarro boogs
<jussi> bah, slow wiki
<jussi> ok, lets go onto nhandler's item
<jussi> I can get the TR up yet
<jussi> oh, wait, here it is
 * rww is multitasking and tabbing in and out of this window
<jussi> so, tsimpson, you did a wiki page for the UDS ideas. did we get many?
<jussi> My action: Action: jussi to get staff to drop #ubuntu-helpteam
<jussi> I did do that
<jussi> and the whole ircc had an action: IRCC to drop unused and off-topic channels, and contact other channels with freenode-staff as founder
<jussi> any of you want to comment on it?
<jussi> topyli: tsimpson nhandler!
<topyli> it's not done
<nhandler> jussi: That was my idea for a project for the next cycle. We started it, but it will take some time
<jussi> ok, looks like terence has departed...
<jussi> so, nhandler, have you anymore to say about eir?
<nhandler> jussi: tsimpson has been working on getting ubottu to be able to keep the BT updated when people use eir to manage bans. He says he is alsmost ready to test that functionality. Once it is working, we will get eir added
<jussi> right, that seems pretty clear to me - would like to know how that is progressing.
<jussi> Unfortunately I guess we cant right now.
<nhandler> jussi: It looks like it is coming along pretty well if he is almost ready for testing
<jussi> [topic] any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other business?
<topyli> there is the namespace limits item
<topyli> jussi: ^
<LjL> i have an issue to raise
<jussi> oh, yeah I forgot that
<jussi> LjL: please do
<jussi> topyli: Ill get to that in a min
<LjL> i previously contacted the IRC Council about idoru in #ubuntu. i've found out that it has what is in my opinion a worryingly high number of misfirings (people who repeat their question, or people who crosspost, mostly). the IRC Council might be able to provide the pastebin post i gave them detailing my findings (i'm not on my computer at the moment)
<jussi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/594660/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/594660/
<LjL> thanks
<jussi> LjL: what action would you like to see happen?
<LjL> jussi: ideally idoru should be adjusted, but i guess that's up to freenode staff. if the situation can't be improved quite quicky, i'd recommend idoru to be removed from #ubuntu for now
<rww> As I've mentioned in #ubuntu-ops in the past, I have the same opinion as LjL on this. It seems a very sub-optimal user experience for people seeking help (albeit over-enthusiastically) to suddenly find themselves ejected from the network.
<LjL> note, for those that might not know, that idoru actually k-lines.
<rww> It's not good for Ubuntu's image and it's bad catalysing.
<nhandler> One thing to note, even if we didn't have idoru in #ubuntu, many of these people would have still gotten hit by idoru for what they have done in other channels.
<rww> Then hopefully other channels will follow suit until idoru is fixed.
<nhandler> Well, you are looking at things from a single channel point of view. Sending the same question to all somewhat-related channels on the network is definitely not a good thing. And idoru does catch MANY bots and other problem users each days
<rww> I'm looking at things from the point of view that freenode's bot has a 50% accuracy rate and is doing things that I would be told off for doing.
<nhandler> Well, that all depends on your definition of "accurate"
<rww> If I kickbanned people, even temporarily, for crossposting without any sort of warning, I'd expect an IRCC member to PM me shortly. What idoru is doing is worse than kickbanning.
<jussi> nhandler: are there any opportunities for people to contribute to idoru?
<nhandler> rww: That is because you are a channel operator, not a network opper. Some things might not necessarly violate a channel's policies, but they might violate network rules.
<jussi> wb tsimpson
<nhandler> jussi: In what way?
<jussi> nhandler: is idoru open source? can we do the work?
<nhandler> jussi: They can contribute suggestions, but the source is not available.
<rww> nhandler: freenode's bot is violating freenode's guidelines on catalysing and Ubuntu's guidelines on operating.
<rww> It really is as simple as that from where I'm sitting.
<topyli> it's not really bound by any ubuntu guidelines though
<tsimpson> power cut :/
<rww> topyli: It's effectively denying access to #ubuntu using information it gets from sitting in #ubuntu. It should be.
<tsimpson> so, I was going to say that I think I have a working implementation of eir integration, and I should be ready for so live testing soon-ish
<nhandler> rww: Like I mentioned, users would still be getting klined and prevented from accessing #ubuntu even if the bot wasn't in there
<LjL> i'd like to point out, also, that i've been super careful in writing the floodbots so that they wouldn't *temporarily* the wrong people, and for quite a while i still had people who were concerned about it. then a freenode bot is suddenly introduced that partly duplicates the functionality, except it k-lines at first offence.
<nhandler> tsimpson: Great. LjL brought up the idoru topic
<tsimpson> it will only interact with the btset eir command and only in #ubuntu-ops-team
<rww> nhandler: I've already answered that.
<nhandler> LjL: The FloodBots are channel bots, banning and quieting to deal with channel problems. idoru is designed for the network
<LjL> well, it acts on things that are happenings on just #ubuntu too, though.
<LjL> anyway my point is that two different and contrary criteria are being applied.
<jussi> LjL: however, the happenings that are only ubuntu are rarely false positives, no?
<nhandler> jussi: That depends on what you consider a "false positive".
<LjL> jussi: they are *MOSTLY* false positives.
<LjL> jussi: my paste only contains things were something visible happened in #ubuntu, note that
<jussi> LjL: but you only monitored #u, not the who network, right?
<jussi> so if someone did those things across lots of channels, it wouldnt be a false positive?
<LjL> jussi: i'm pretty sure repeating the same question quickly three or four times will get you k-lined even if you only do that in #ubuntu
<LjL> i'd prefer not to give a practical demonstration but i will if you're not convinced ;)
<jussi> nhandler: can you comment here?
<rww> If I sat in every channel on the network and kickbanned people that crossposted their question to three different channels from #ubuntu, would that be acceptable behavior?
<nhandler> LjL: Not necessarily. There are some checks in idoru to prevent people from getting klined. Although, I cannot reveal what those are.
<jussi> rww: no, because you are not a network staffer. its freenode staffs decisions if they care to do that
<rww> jussi: I do not feel it is right for us to allow the presence of a bot that does things we are not supposed to do, regardless of whether freenode thinks it's a good idea.
<nhandler> It is also worth noting that idoru is a very big asset when we get large bot attacks in #ubuntu or on the network in general
<LjL> the floodbots also deal with attacks on #ubuntu
<jussi> rww: you arent supposed to kline anyone (and you cant) - so therefore we shouldnt allow freenode staffers?
<LjL> the way you and jussi are speaking, you're sounding like #ubuntu should be a well to draw from for idoru to ban :\
<nhandler> We are looking at channel issues, staff focus on network issues
<rww> jussi: I'm applying the strongest equivalent I can do. If it's not acceptable for me to be kickbanning people, it doesn't make sense for it to be acceptable for it to kline people.
<rww> This is an Ubuntu IRC Council meeting. Our scope is deciding what's best for Ubuntu and its IRC channels. K-lining people without warning for the sort of things idoru k-lines people for 50% of the time is not best for Ubuntu or its IRC channels.
<topyli> note that we don't really get to say what is and what isn't acceptable for freenode staff or their bots to do. we can discuss having idoru in #ubuntu or removing it
<rww> We have bots that get rid of spammers from #ubuntu just as well or better than idoru does, with a lot less mess.
<jussi> right, I still fell idoru does more good than harm, and on that basis, I would like it to stay.
<tsimpson> the point of idoru is that it doesn't just look at #ubuntu
<tsimpson> it looks at many channels, and so is better able to protect #ubuntu
<rww> tsimpson: 1) It doesn't actually protect #ubuntu better than the Floodbots, in my experience, 2) we have a bo that does that anyway.
<LjL> 3) it kills a lot of innocents
<nhandler> So for instance, if a bot attack starts taking place in #freenode, idoru has the ability to kline the bots before they have a chance to spread to #ubuntu as well as the reverse (killing #ubuntu bots before they hit other channels)
<LjL> which is the main point here i'm sure
<tsimpson> rww: it does, if a spammer spams #ubuntu, a kill is better than a temporary quiet
<rww> tsimpson: If a spammer spams #ubuntu, FloodBot quiets them until our capable op team notices and removes them.
<rww> afaik, we effectively have 24/7 coverage these days
<rww> unlike, I note, freenode staff.
<tsimpson> rww: and if no op is active, people just suffer
<LjL> and people don't suffer when they get k-lined for having crossposted or repeated a little?
<tsimpson> the thing we are missing, and which we can only speculate on, is how many attacks/spam/floods the bot *has* protected #ubuntu from
<nhandler> rww: That isn't necessarily true
<rww> tsimpson: which is what happens when no ircops are looking at idoru
<LjL> tsimpson: no we aren't
<LjL> nobody is missing that
<LjL> the problem is
<LjL> LOT OF FALSE POSITIVES COMPARED TO TRUE POSITIVES
<LjL> even possibly the majority
<LjL> and that is SIMPLY NOT ACCEPTABLE
<tsimpson> rww: we don't have 24/7 coverage in #ubuntu, even with all the ops we have
<nhandler> LjL: That is based on your definition of "false positive"
<topyli> calm down please :)
<LjL> nhandler: yes, i'm sure my definition always fit that of ubuntu ops until now
<LjL> repeating is not a k-lineable offence
<LjL> crossposting a valid question is not a k-lineable offence
<LjL> freenode is free to think otherwise, but Ubuntu can and should be free to refuse having their bot in #ubuntu
<tsimpson> we are free to refuse having the bot in #ubuntu
<LjL> that said, if idoru is allowed to stay in its current form, i believe the floodbots are just duplicating functionality (idoru is "more effective" as it both k-lines and acts more frequently)
<tsimpson> no pressure has been applied for us to have it, we asked for it and we got it
<nhandler> LjL: That isn't necessarily true. And the floodbots check for different things than idoru
<topyli> so. should we remove idoru from #ubuntu for some trial period and see if heaven falls?
<topyli> nhandler: can we get it back easily in case of heavenly threat?
<tsimpson> topyli: I don't think we should
<tsimpson> if we remove it for some time, it gets removed for that time
<jussi> [vote]Â remove idoru from #ubuntu for some trial period and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen?
<MootBot> Please vote on: Â remove idoru from #ubuntu for some trial period and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<tsimpson> otherwise we get no real data on how useful it is
<topyli> tsimpson: just trying to formulate a proposal we can decide on
<nhandler> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<jussi> wait
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 1 against. 0 abstained. Total: -1
<jussi> lets try again
<topyli> heh. didn't pass. next!
<jussi> [vote]Â remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen?
<MootBot> Please vote on: Â remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<jussi> That should be long enough to tell, but not disrupt too much
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from tsimpson. 2 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> I'm not convinced it needs to go, but as the vote is currently +1, we should go forward with it
<tsimpson> (count my +0 as a 50% -1, 50% +1)
<topyli> the only way to find out, come hell or high water
<nhandler> tsimpson: A majority of the seated council is not in agreement
<jussi> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 1
<tsimpson> nhandler: which is why I stated the above, if it's required I change it to +1 in this instance
<jussi> We need to get a + or - from elky
<nhandler> tsimpson: Alright, that would be better (per the charter)
<tsimpson> nhandler: I personally don't agree with it, but if it helps bring an end to the argument I'll go for it
<jussi> tsimpson: so you have chnged to a +1 ?
<tsimpson> jussi: technically
<jussi> ok
<nhandler> Shall I action it?
<tsimpson> my +1 is more for the "get the argument resolved"
<jussi> [action] remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen (nhandler)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen (nhandler)
<nhandler> 1303671052 13:50:52 -!- idoru [idoru@freenode/utility-bot/ex-server/idoru] has left #ubuntu []
<jussi> ok, tsimpson, about eir?
<topyli> nhandler: you don't have to monitor the heavens all the time though, the action is just for the bot
<nhandler> jussi: He commented on that when he rejoined
<nhandler> topyli: :)
<topyli> :)
<tsimpson> <tsimpson> so, I was going to say that I think I have a working implementation of eir integration, and I should be ready for so live testing soon-ish... it will only interact with the btset eir command and only in #ubuntu-ops-team
<jussi> tsimpson: so, what needs to happen next then ?
<nhandler> jussi: He needs to finish the code and we need to test it to see if it works
<tsimpson> I only need to find a way to get some real-world testing, simulations aren't really good if I control the input data
<tsimpson> I *think* it's about ready for real testing, I doubt it's completely working, but I need to test to see if/how/why
<nhandler> tsimpson: If you can toggle the channel ubottu monitors for eir commands, I can get you testing
<jussi> ok, so is there any action needed? or just continue as was?
<tsimpson> nhandler: it's already configurable :)
<nhandler> :)
<tsimpson> jussi: no action, it's all part of the original action
<jussi> ok great.
<nhandler> tsimpson: Alright. Poke me when you are ready to test.
<tsimpson> nhandler: k
<jussi> so, my item thats been hanging for a few weeks
<jussi> Im really not sure how to proceed with this, nor what we had intended to document. Im kind of struggling, and Id appreciate a bit of help with it. anyone want to help out?
<nhandler> jussi: What item is this again?
<tsimpson> our namespace policy thing?
<jussi> document the namespace limits
<tsimpson> so what kind channels we allow in our namespace and what ones aren't appropriate for our namespace
<tsimpson> is #ubuntu-some-random-topic ok, or not...
<jussi> In any case, Id appreciate a little help on this.
<tsimpson> currently, we have a kind of unwritten policy of allowing ubuntu related teams (as in Launchpad teams) to create channels, but that's not a great policy
<tsimpson> anyone can create a launchpad team about anything, and stick the word "ubuntu" in there somewhere
<nhandler> Well, the hard part is, there is no way until the GMS is done to really restrict creating a channel
<jussi> Just thinking about this, perhaps this is a good thing to discus at UDS?
<nhandler> By restrict, I mean through technical means
<nhandler> jussi: How many IRCC folks are attending?
<tsimpson> but we should still have a policy in place as to what is acceptable as an official channel, and what's not
<jussi> nhandler: remotely or in person?
<nhandler> jussi: In person
<nhandler> tsimpson: Yeah, although for a lot of channels (as we saw when we started going through the list), it is fairly easy to tell if they are appropriate or not
<tsimpson> I think just jussi is attending UDS
<jussi> Yes, afaik
<topyli> we'll of course all attend the irc sessions one way or another :)
 * rww has this image of jussi sitting in a room by himself talking to a computer
<nhandler> topyli: I probably won't be able to
<topyli> oh
<nhandler> But in that case, it would probably be better to at least have some discussions before UDS.
<tsimpson> I'm not 100% on if I'll be remotely attending or not, I hope to, and I'll try to, but I can't say I will be
<topyli> btw fridge says there's another meeting coming up. is this so?
<jussi> topyli: which meeting?
<nhandler> I also don't want to see us fall into the trap of having decisions/actions made at uds for us if only one person from the council is there. Discussion is fine, but actions should be made after we talk about it
<topyli> ubuntu-gaming
<topyli> team
<nhandler> topyli: Yep. Not sure if they are here or not.
<nhandler> Any Ubuntu Gaming folks here for the meeting?
<jussi> Ok, well shall we leave it there for the night, talk some about it at UDS, and make a document for the meeting after UDS?
<jussi> and anyone want to volunteer to help me out with it ?
<tsimpson> there is no reason we can't start the discussion before UDS
<nhandler> +1 tsimpson
<topyli> i can help, we should have some thoughts to discuss at uds
<nhandler> jussi: After the second week in may, I'll have a lot more free time to help with this stuff.
<topyli> the sessions are short!
<jussi> yes, I agree, my point was to aim for the meeting after udsd to have a document to vote on
<tsimpson> I'm sure some people on the CC would probably want to provide some thoughts on what is/isn't appropriate too
<jussi> tsimpson: very good point
<nhandler> tsimpson: I think they have already done that in a way via the CoC
<nhandler> We also have the freenode guidelines for offtopic stuff that we can mention in our doc
<tsimpson> nhandler: the CoC is very generalized, some specific thoughts regarding IRC would be nice
<topyli> the CoC allows a channel to be created for ubuntu-smokers
<tsimpson> all ubuntu channels are required to follow the CoC, but other than that there is no restriction on what is allowed
<jussi> In anycase, there is both another meeting, and other places for me to be. can we agree to continue this discussion elsewhere?
 * tsimpson senses the mailing list being useful
<topyli> let's agree that we'll work on this, and move on :)
<topyli> tsimpson: worth a try
<jussi> someone want to write the mail to the list?
<topyli> jussi: i can't wait to do it
<rww> hehe
<jussi> [action] Take "Define ubuntu namespace limits" to the mailing list. (topyli)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Take "Define ubuntu namespace limits" to the mailing list. (topyli)
<topyli> err, i can do it if no-one else will :)
<jussi> thank you very much. :=)
<jussi> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:07.
<jussi> thanks everyone
<topyli> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-16
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 16 18:11:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jjohansen> hi
<tyhicks> Hello
 * kees waves hi
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I finished my MIR audits, and did the first round of install audits
<jdstrand> performance reviews are done
<jdstrand> and I'm basically done with my embargoed issue
<jdstrand> I plan to pick up some updates and finish up me remaining few work items
<jdstrand> s/me/my/
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> There's a combined fakesync/sponsored issue for that that I'm working on, as well as the flash update.
<sbeattie> I'm also working on/collecting apparmor bugs for a release day SRU
<sbeattie> as well as finishing up other work items
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: over to you
<micahg> still working on migrating Thunderbird in stable releases (build failures), webkit stable release migration, and I have patch piloting today
<micahg> I think that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I need to wrap up 3 small work items. Verifying SELinux tools and framework in Precise is the most notable.
<tyhicks> I want to fix bug 911507 this week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 911507 in eCryptfs "eCryptfs should initialize existing empty files at open()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911507
<tyhicks> More and more users are hitting it. It would be a post-release update to the kernel.
<tyhicks> I don't have any pending updates, but I'll take a new one as I start making it through the above list
<tyhicks> I think that's it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I still have bugs 968956, 959352, 959560 to fix, and some more testing on 978038, and 955892 before I push them upstream.
<jjohansen> I also have several tests for the regression test suite to pull together and post out.
<jjohansen> I have two Precise work items I need to work on, and I am going to start pulling together/refreshing the dbus prototype
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959560 in AppArmor "deny mount does not work correctly" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 968956 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "apparmor_parser: Unable to replace "/usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf". Profile doesn't conform to protocol" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959352 in lxc (Ubuntu) "Ephemeral containers have "/rootfs" prefix in /proc/self/maps entries" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959352
<jjohansen> ah stuup ubottu
<jjohansen> hehe
<sbeattie> jjohansen: oh, is 968956 still open?
<sbeattie> I thought the upload before freeze addressed that in one of the patches I applied.
<sbeattie> (which is why it got auto-closed)
<jjohansen> sbeattie: hrmm, I could have grabbed the wrong bug #
<sbeattie> okay, feel free to let me know after the meeting which bugs you're still tracking.
<jjohansen> sbeattie: yep, I have the wrong # listed next to it in my todo
<jjohansen> sbeattie: I think it is 969228
<jjohansen> that is supposed to be
<jjohansen> anyway thats it from /me jdstrand back to you
<sbeattie> ah, okay
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnome-shell.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpop.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyro.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ngircd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/atheme-services.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> micahg: fyi, I was unable to get to chromium over the weekend
<jdstrand> micahg: I could maybe do it today or tomorrow. let's talk outside of the meeting
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 16 18:34:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-16-18.11.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-16-18.11.html
<jdstrand> sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<kklimonda> czajkowski: is there a diff for the new CoC ?
<tumbleweed> kklimonda: want a wdiff? I found it more useful to jsut read them side by side, though
<beuno> yeah, the change is big enough that a diff isn't super helpful
<tumbleweed> wdiff did a terrible job on it :P
<kklimonda> damn ;)
<tumbleweed> still, useful to see where the big changes are
<kklimonda> oh well, I guess I can run diff myself
<tumbleweed> you can just checkout sabdfl's branch. Only the Merged version is modified, the other CoC and Leadership CoC files are the currently published versions
<kklimonda> I guess I'll have to read them side by side.. just like tumbleweed said :)
<kklimonda> is there a summary of changes and discussions that lead to them?
 * tumbleweed didn't go looking, but I see some other WIP branches published on LP that look related
 * Laney wonders if they saw the Debian conversations about listing types of diversity :-)
<kklimonda> there is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/rationale.txt but it mentions revision 1.1 and it's a 2.0 draft
<tumbleweed> I was suprised not to see ", etc." There's definitly going to need to be future ammendment there :P
<Laney> it also is expanded to include more than actions "as members of the Ubuntu community" â¦
<kklimonda> "We respect decisions made by those who were asked to take them." bah, I don't like the paragraph after this one ;)
<kklimonda> last time I've tried discussing switching from clutter to nux I was told that "they prefer working over discussing so cya"
<kklimonda> (and there hasn't really been any discussion before the change)
<mdz> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 16 20:02:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<mdz> the agenda is pretty, er, limited anyway :-)
<mdz> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<pitti> ah, indeed; /me checks mail backlog
<mdz> Ubuntu Studio was resolved at the previous meeting, right?
<pitti> was UbuntuStudio LTS plan proposal already discussed?
<pitti> I see no reply
<mdz> it's mentioned in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-April/000951.html
<pitti> mdz: snap :)
<mdz> but I can't tell if anyone followed up with Scott Lavender
<mdz> I'll drop a note just to be sure
<mdz> the only other thing I see is this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-April/001239.html
<pitti> Subject: Kubuntu Future from Riddell
<pitti> but that was for last meeting
<pitti> Riddell: here by chance?
<mdz> yep
<mdz> was discussed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-April/000951.html
<pitti> I think it was moderated way too late for the last meeting
<mdz> the UDS organizers changes don't appear to have been done
<mdz> TB is the admin, so I'll do it
<mdz> #action mdz to follow up with Scott Lavender re: Ubuntu Studio and confirm there's no outstanding business
<meetingology> ACTION: mdz to follow up with Scott Lavender re: Ubuntu Studio and confirm there's no outstanding business
<mdz> #action mdz to update uds-organizers per jcastro's requests
<meetingology> ACTION: mdz to update uds-organizers per jcastro's requests
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> oh hi stgraber
<mdz> stgraber, thanks for chairing last time btw
<stgraber> (sorry, currently in Europe and wiki said 21:00 UTC, so got a bit confused by meeting time ;))
<stgraber> mdz: np
<mdz> stgraber, yes, we were confused too and made a quick consensus decision to have it now :-)
<mdz> stgraber, since you were here last time, can you recall if there is any outstanding business on either of the topics in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-April/000951.html ?
<stgraber> oh right, just saw the discussion in #ubuntu-devel now :)
<mdz> are they "done done"?
<stgraber> they're both done done
<mdz> cool
<mdz> #unaction mdz ;-)
<mdz> I haven't heard any more agenda items, so I think we're done
<mdz> soren, can you chair next time?
<soren> Hm..
<soren> That's...the week before UDS, right?
<stgraber> yeah, it's
<mdz> 4/30
 * soren is waiting for his calendar to load..
<mdz> I probably will not be able to attend due to travel
<soren> Looks free, so yes.
<soren> Shouldn't be a problem.
<mdz> cool
<mdz> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 16 20:12:55 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-16-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-16-20.02.html
<pitti> that was quick :)
<mdz> indeed, I got an easy one :-)
<pitti> so, see you next time :)
<pitti> thanks mdz
<mdz> np
<stgraber> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-17
<Ursinha> hello?
<arosales> Hello
<smb> \o
<utlemming> I think this is going to be lightly attended meeting today with everyone at ODS
<Ursinha> should we do that anyway?
<arosales> yes, lets meet
<Ursinha> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 17 16:02:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is Ursinha. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> should be relatively short :-)
<Ursinha> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Ursinha> should I trust the wiki page?
<arosales> smoser: did you update after last weeks meeting?
<Ursinha> the logs aren't there..
<arosales> spamaps isn't here at the moment
<arosales> jamespage: did you have a chance to follow up on the FTBFS?
<arosales> jamespage: is also at ODS so may not be available.
<arosales> Ursinha: lets move onto bugs for now
<Ursinha> all right
<arosales> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Ursinha> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
 * arosales looking for non openstack bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<arosales> bug 928990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<arosales> utlemming: any update there?
<utlemming> arosales: yes, it is going to require substaintial plumbing to get that fixed.
<arosales> utlemming:ok,  as we are past final freeze is this something that will need to go into an SRU?
<utlemming> Most users should never hit it, so it not as scary as it sounds
<utlemming> that particular bug has been changed with a request for a rescue console
<arosales> utlemming: ok, thanks.
<utlemming> I've done a bit of work on it, but I want to make this a UDS discussion
<arosales> utlemming: will you be drafting up a blueprint?
<utlemming> Yes, its part of the cloud images roundtable I've proposed
<arosales> utlemming: cool, thanks.
 * arosales skipping 930916 as SpamapS isn't currently available
<arosales> quantum bugs . . .
<arosales> bug 979159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979159 in quantum (Ubuntu Precise) "Several installation error issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979159
<arosales> looks like jamespage had confirmed that one
<arosales> also looks like jamespage triaged bug 979190
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979190 in quantum (Ubuntu Precise) "Missing upstart scripts" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979190
<arosales> as well with bug 979163
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979163 in quantum (Ubuntu Precise) "quantum-server needs to create /var/run/quantum" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979163
<arosales> skipping bug 880339
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #880339 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339). The error has been logged
<arosales> bug 974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<seh> fixed for lxc for precise
<seh> staying open to be fixed in initscripts in q+
<arosales> seh: thanks for the update.
<Ursinha> is the importance High as the other tasks?
<seh> I think so
<Ursinha> I'll set it, thanks seh
<seh> thanks
<arosales> Ursinha: thanks
<arosales> have one new FTBFS
<arosales> bug 935071
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935071 in drools (Ubuntu Precise) "Please remove drools from precise" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935071
<arosales> looks like jamespage had also taken a look at that one.
<arosales> MIR's are progerssing
<Ursinha> arosales, he unassigned himself from that bug
<arosales> Ursinha: ah yes, any takers here ?
<Ursinha> it seems the package needs to be removed from the archive, if so, there might be a process somewhere indicating how to do so
<Ursinha> (subscribing a team to the bug or something like that)
<arosales> ya, may need to add an archieve admin
<arosales> I'll follow up on it
<Ursinha> cool
<arosales> thats it for the bugs.
<arosales> Just a few blueprints to go over
 * arosales looking at
<arosales> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<Ursinha> [ACTION] arosales to follow up on bug 935071
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to follow up on bug 935071
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 935071 in drools (Ubuntu Precise) "Please remove drools from precise" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/935071
<arosales> sorting by priority and completion
<Ursinha> #topic Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
 * arosales also looking at non-openstack bugs
<arosales> skipping https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-charms
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-kvm-document-suggested-changes
<arosales> I don't think hallyn is here
<seh> I was going to start the perf runs today, but that laptop is now doing qa tests
<seh> i blame arosales  :)
<Ursinha> arosales, one of the ACTION items from last meeting was: SpamapS to postpone servercloud-p-cloud-power-management to Q
<arosales> seh: for sure, I'll take that blame :-)
<arosales> I'll follow up with hallyn
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-pushing-cloud
<arosales> utlemming: are these TODOs going to make 12.04?
<utlemming> No, I've marked the blueprint deferred already. I'll also update the todo's
<arosales> utlemming: ok, thanks
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-cloudutils
<arosales> also may need to look at this one I think the thought on that one was to get clou-images-sync done
<arosales> utlemming: is that still viable for 12.04?
<utlemming> arosales: yes, the cloud-image sync script is done
<arosales> utlemming: cool, should "[utlemming] implement cloud-images-sync: TODO" move to done?
<utlemming> refresh. I just updated that
<arosales> utlemming: ah thanks :-)
<arosales> Ursinha: thats covers the blueprints I had in mind to discuss
<Ursinha> arosales, right
<Ursinha> moving on then
<Ursinha> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Ursinha> anything to note?
<arosales> So a lot of folks at ODS
<seh> [1;5AI expect I'll be heading to linuxcon in august
<Ursinha> besides ODS happening right now
<arosales> m_3 will be attending railsconf April 23-25
<seh> (for security summit, maybe kvm one)
<Ursinha> cool :)
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
 * Ursinha looks around for hggdh 
<hggdh> I am here, just had a bit of an issue with weechat
<Ursinha> oh
<hggdh> Ursinha: nothing new, except please help test :-)
<hggdh> ..
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> great
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * smb only has to say that he has nothing to say...
<smb> ..
<Ursinha> hehe
<Ursinha> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> ARM server netinstalls are currently broken due to bug 984007. This is a critical issue and should be fixed soon.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984007 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "netinst d-i fails on armadaxp" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984007
<rbasak> Nothing else to report. Any questions for me?
<arosales> rbasak: can that be an SRU or do we need to talk with the release team about getting this in before 12.04 release?
<rbasak> arosales: the foundations team are looking after this - infinity in particular.
<arosales> rbasak: ok, I'll also follow up with the release team on Friday during their meeting
<rbasak> I presume he'll a fix in before release.
<rbasak> he'll get a fix in
<arosales> rbasak: thanks for the info
<arosales> ..
<Ursinha> it was just set to In Progress, yay
<Ursinha> thanks rbasak
<rbasak> np
<Ursinha> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<rbasak> Our planned reference install will be a netinstall on armadaxp, so this is critical for us :)
<arosales> rbasak: for sure
<arosales> Ursinha: one topic
<arosales> Call for testing on bare metal installs
<arosales> We need help doing some installs to check off the tests at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds/15473/testcases
<arosales> so if anyone has any spare cycles please see if you check if any of the tests pass
<arosales> ..
 * Ursinha looks
<seh> j'accuse
<Ursinha> cool
<Ursinha> please, help test!
<Ursinha> #topicAnnounce next meeting date and time
<Ursinha> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Ursinha> according to the queue, that should be utlemming
<Ursinha> is that correct?
<utlemming> yup, that's my understanding
<Ursinha> all right, I'll update the wiki page
<arosales> Thanks for charing this meeting Ursinha :-)
<Ursinha> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 17 16:33:29 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-17-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-17-16.02.html
<Ursinha> thanks arosales for leading it :)
<Ursinha> thanks guys
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 17 16:59:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<herton> o/
<kamalmostafa> \o
<cking> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> \o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: the video issue was resolved (lp963512), kernel was rebased on master (3.2.0-23.36) and Ubuntu-3.2.0-1412.15 will be Precise's omap4 kernel
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04.html
<ogasawara> All work items have now been closed \o/
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Precise kernel is currently frozen and release candidate images are
<ogasawara> set to be spun this Thurs Apr 19.  Final release is almost 1 week away
<ogasawara> on Thurs Apr 26.  We have started queuing patches for the first kernel
<ogasawara> SRU.  This includes patches from the most recent v3.2.15 upstream stable
<ogasawara> release.  Should an additional upload be required before final release,
<ogasawara> we will try to include a few bug fixes which have been queued.  Please
<ogasawara> note that at this point in time, all patches are subject to our SRU
<ogasawara> policy and uploads will only be granted at the discretion of the release
<ogasawara> team.
<ogasawara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/StablePatchFormat
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 19 - Release Candidate (~1 day)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 26 - Final Release (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> nothing to report, backlog unchanged
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 17):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.88  - Regression testing
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-14.58  - Completed
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-19.32   - Regression testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> Quixotic Quetzacoatl
<cking> bjf just could not resist that
<kamalmostafa> how would I ever learn to spell that?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 17 17:05:19 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-17-16.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-17-16.59.html
<kamalmostafa> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-18
<balloons> 3 mins left . ..
<phillw> balloons: take it to #ubuntu-testing?
<balloons> yes -- astraljava just pinged me.. I've been sitting here.. I don't know why my reminder didn't pop on my desktop.. I'm not used to the new time.. sorry guys :-(
<balloons> hggdh, jibel, Effenberg0x0, roignac, txomon|afk care to join in #ubuntu-testing.. we'll meet a bit late :-(
<Effenberg0x0> balloons, if you want to use #U+1, in case #ubuntu-testing is too crowded, please feel free.
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
 * ogra_ moos
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 18 15:06:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> jodh ev stgraber doko barry cjwatson ogra infinity bdmurray slangasek
<jodh> * [boot]
<jodh>   - plymouth: Sent a real fix for bug 553745 upstream (awaiting
<jodh>     feedback). Hopefully, we'll be able to close the 270 duplicate bugs
<jodh>     real soon now :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Lucid) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<jodh>   - lightdm: Comments on bug 969489. Needs more thought.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 969489 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm tries (and fails) to start too early?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/969489
<jodh> * [doc]
<jodh>   - Cookbook updates (the cookbook now appears to have broken rst2pdf :()
<jodh> * [misc]
<jodh>   - Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/PreferredTechnologies
<jodh> * [release]
<jodh>   - Lots of work on Upstart Release Notes
<jodh>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/TechnicalOverviewUpstart
<jodh> â 
<ev> - Finished the apport branch that handles breaks/replaces in the retrace cache
<ev>   which I mentioned last week.
<ev> - Continued to shop the crash database statistics website design around.
<ev>   Please give me your feedback as time allows.
<ev> - Meeting with the good folks at Acunu on Friday to discuss their Acunu
<ev>   Anayltics project which we may use as the foundation of our metrics service.
<ev>   They're debating internally whether or not to open source it, with some
<ev>   people pushing hard for it to be open. Unfortunately it's a bit of a black
<ev>   box at the moment as the copy they're distributing is binary-only. I've put
<ev>   it up in the Canonicloud with a public IP and am working on instructions for
<ev>   those that want to test metrics collection against it.
<ev> - Built a mean time between failures graph using sample data and the very cool
<ev>   nvd3 that itself builds on the even cooler d3.js:
<ev>   http://novus.github.com/nvd3/examples/cumulativeLine.html
<ev> - Built out support in oops-repository for collecting mean time between
<ev>   failures in real time. Worked with webops to get this deployed.
<ev> - Fought CSS to the death (and lost) attempting to get our most common
<ev>   problems table to use 100% of the available width, giving as little as it
<ev>   can to all the columns except for the signature one. Hacking around for now.
<ev> - Dug at the whoopsie build failures on PPC and ARM. Traced the cause to a
<ev>   non-boolean function used as a glib callback. Fixed.
<ev> - Changed our retracing code to use the new cached sandboxes and manage their
<ev>   creation and removal. This had a slight bug in that it was creating
<ev>   sandboxes for every single crash it retraced, quickly eating up the space on
<ev>   that production machine. I've fixed this and webops are working on deploying
<ev>   it.
<ev> - Sat in on a FY11 presentation given by Rick.
<ev> - Meeting with the design team to discuss an improved mockup and specification
<ev>   process.
<ev> (done)
<stgraber> Very short week, was off on Friday, Monday and Tuesday
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Minor bug reporting bugfix pushed to production
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Minor LXC fixes
<stgraber> - Installer
<stgraber>  - Fixed bug 966294!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 966294 in GStreamer "gstreamer hangs when accessing webcam (on specific hardware)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966294
<stgraber>  - Fixed some more installer bugs (bug 973794, bug 984883)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 973794 in casper (Ubuntu) "Malformed 'search' entry in /etc/resolv.conf on network install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/973794
<stgraber> - Release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984883 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Precise alternate OEM: No slideshow during end user setup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984883
<stgraber>  - Code review for unapproved uploads
<barry> stgraber: \o/
<stgraber>  - ISO testing
<stgraber> - TODO this week (today/tomorrow)
<stgraber>  - Continue bug fixing and testing images.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<doko> - ARM dynamic linker path - call and updates.
<doko> - python2.6 rebuilds and removals
<doko> - python 2.7.3 and 3.2.3 final releases
<doko> - prepared sru updates for python-defaults and gcc-4.6
<doko> - prepare toolchain opening for q (gcc-4.7 ARM fixes, fixed or sent patches for all gcc-4.7
<doko>  ftbfs (main), work done in unstable).
<doko> - Linaro gcc-4.6 and 4.7 merges
<doko> - gdb Linaro update (rejected)
<doko> - best guesses on bug 983981.
<doko> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 983981 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Lucid -> Precise main failed to upgrade: ERROR: pycompile:Requested versions are not installed dpkg: error processing python2.7-minimal installed post-installation script returned error exit status 3" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983981
<barry> bug 975417; bug 873468; debian bug 585145; python issue 9762; unity 2d HUD testing; more python3 transition work for 12.10; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975417 in paraview (Ubuntu) "ParaView conflicts with python-vtk, python-viper,..." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975417
<ev> jodh: thanks for those updates to PreferredTechnologies!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873468 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "Update to latest Release failed for overloaded mirrors with no descriptive error message" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873468
<ubottu> Debian bug 585145 in wnpp "ITA: gtimelog -- minimal timelogging system" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/585145
<jodh> ev: np
<jodh> ev: I feel that page could one day outgrow the cookbook :)
<ev> I sure hope so :)
<slangasek> jodh: 969489> I had talked with bryce and apw about that the other day; the real problem seems to be that the graphics-device-added event happens before the device is actually ready, for obscure kernel reasons, and we don't have a reliable event that things can wait on
<ev> there's already lots of good pointers in there about things I was completely unaware of.
<cjwatson> Some more installer translation merges.  Tweaked partman-auto to reduce risk.
<barry> indeed
<cjwatson> Add hd-media/non-pae installer build (bug 977568).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 977568 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu nightly ISOs use the non-PAE kernel, but no hd-media image is available for that" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977568
<cjwatson> Spent Thursday in London, mostly helping James track down the famous plymouth crash.
<cjwatson> Fixed mountall and NTFS not being friends when pass!=0 (bug 838091).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 838091 in mountall (Ubuntu Oneiric) "should not try to fsck ntfs volumes on boot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838091
<cjwatson> Fixed the last two powerpc-specific build failures in main.  Cleaned up a few other NBS and FTBFS bits and pieces.
<jodh> slangasek: ugh!
<cjwatson> Add manual download verification pass to ubiquity to work around apt bug 922949.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 922949 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "installation process can crash due to an issue with one package when choosing "install updates" as part of the install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922949
<cjwatson> Disable webkit cache in installer slideshow in an attempt to work around bug 979350.  That's still outstanding and tricky, though.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979350 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "install with encrypted home failed near the end: OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979350
<cjwatson> Holiday on Monday.
<cjwatson> Miscellaneous command-not-found cleanups.
<cjwatson> grub2 EFI backports to fix bug 975061.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975061 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub doesn't find boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975061
<cjwatson> Fix broken panel colour in ubiquity (bug 982883).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 982883 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Wrong color of top panel in ubiquity-dm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982883
<cjwatson> Fix broken location of kernel/initrd symlinks on powerpc (bug 958839).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 958839 in live-build (Ubuntu) "Initrd/vmlinux symbloic links not in /boot directory on PowerPC" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958839
<cjwatson> Worked on analysing various upgrade bugs, and generally tried to clean up our rls-p-tracking list.
<cjwatson> Working with dpkg upstream on bug 983187.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 983187 in dpkg (Ubuntu) "dpkg-divert: --add --rename --package shouldn't rename if owned by package" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983187
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * many many hours spent on more compiz issues (actually nearly all my week, i'm in the last stages of testing it in the images,
<ogra_>   seems there are still minor issues with gtk-window-decorator)
<ogra_> * had long discussions with linaro about possible blueprints for arm bits (summary mail to platfound ML pending)
<ogra_> * tons of user support over the weekend to nail down why suddenly initramfs doesnt find /init anymore on arm (fixed by infinity)
<ogra_> * did some peer reviews
<ogra_> * partman-uboot will have to be either SRU or go into 12.10 proper, compiz just stole to much of my time :(
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * finish peer reviews
<ogra_> * finish ubuntu-core wikipage rewrite
<ogra_> * look into fsck slowdown (sorry steve, still didnt get to it :/ )
<ogra_> UDS:
<ogra_> * linaro would like to:
<ogra_>   a) have truely embedded image possibilities and closer integration for any embedded stuff (like dev environments
<ogra_>     (i.e. board specific eclipse plugins) but also the opportunity to build actual embedded images (i.e. for systems
<ogra_>     with only 64M ram and 128M flash space)
<ogra_>   b) see us integrate HW-pack usage into our build system (to drop duplication, we all seem to build the same stuff)
<ogra_>     both should become blueprints imho.
<ogra_> ..
<jodh> ogra_: what was the cause of the inaccessible /init ?
<ogra_> jodh, linker path breakage in initramfs-tools and d-i
<ogra_> well, fsvo breakage :)
<cjwatson> aka fallout from change in progress
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> well, i dont think adam expected that he had to touch it
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> ..
<slangasek> ogra_: fsck slowdown> well if people would just be happy running metacity on arm... ;)
<ogra_> haha
<slangasek> ogra_: please get blueprints registered for both of those topics and targeted to the sprint
<ogra_> well, its not off my TODO
<ogra_> yeah, will do
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<ogra_> fsck can well be SRUed ... sadly partman-uboot is useless as SUR until 12.04.1
<bdmurray> bug triage of update-manager and ubiquity bug reports
<bdmurray> uploaded an apport change to check /cdrom fullness for package install failures
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager patch in bug 945536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 945536 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "Excruciatingly slow package list onscreen update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/945536
<bdmurray> reported ubiquity bug 979350 regarding out of memory
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979350 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "install with encrypted home failed near the end: OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979350
<bdmurray> reported casper bug 984276 regarding installing casper on non-live systems
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<slangasek> well, and also useful for people building other images out of the precise archive (i.e., OEMs)... so still worth doing even if it slips
<bdmurray> consolidation of duplicates of bug 984276 and bug 902603
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 902603 in dpkg (Ubuntu Oneiric) "When installing Multi-Arch: same (meta-)package for two architectures, dpkg considers one arch as completely disappeared" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/902603
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity bug 980676 and finding duplicates of it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980676 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "migration-assistant causes an install failure when encountering another OS with multiple users" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980676
<bdmurray> wrote a flashplugin-nonfree bug pattern for bug 876298 (dupe cleanup too)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876298 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876298
<bdmurray> added a bug pattern for bug 975320 regarding update-manager / aptdaemon
<bdmurray> converted some harvest opportunities to output json data instead of csv files
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 975320 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with Depends in _run_in_dialog(): libx264-120 but it is not installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975320
<bdmurray> wrote code to query ultimate debian database for duplicate title bugs by the same reporter
<slangasek> bdmurray: done?
<bdmurray> .. done ..
<slangasek>  * release queue reviews
<slangasek>  * follow through on update-notifier for the downloader changes (bug #979477, bug #979426, bug #976761)
<slangasek>  * fixed busybox creating directories with wrong perms on 64-bit (bug #980772)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979477 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "ttf-mscorefonts-installer installation popup and probable failure" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979477
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 979426 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "persistent MitM can truncate list of files passed as script command line arguments" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/979426
<slangasek>  * fixed race condition in crypted swap on boot (bug #874774)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 976761 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "package-data-downloader crashed with OSError in mark_hook_failed(): [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/update-notifier/package-data-downloads/flashplugin-installer.failed'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/976761
<slangasek>  * followed through on the insserv breakage cleanup (bug #941867)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 980772 in busybox (Ubuntu Precise) "Various files and directories created with odd permissions on precise" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980772
<slangasek>  * killed defoma out of main
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 874774 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu Oneiric) "could not mount /dev/mapper/cryptswap1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874774
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 941867 in insserv (Ubuntu Oneiric) "after upgrade to 1.14.0-2.1ubuntu0.1 0 dpkg --configure ror" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/941867
<slangasek>  * trimmed plymouth bug pattern to not match on precise, now that we think the bugs are fixed (so we can see any reports that they aren't)
<slangasek> done
<slangasek> any questions anywhere?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<bdmurray> I've tried recreating bug 978181 and bug 974402 without any luck
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 978181 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "User home not created after install" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974402 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No user home directory created on clean install using btrfs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974402
<bdmurray> I don't think many people choose btrfs but it is still worrisome
<slangasek> encrypted home would never prevent the directory from being created, AFAIK
<slangasek> though I guess ecryptfs+btrfs could be making the filesystem explode
<cjwatson> this sort of thing can happen if user-setup-apply runs into an error and bails out early
<cjwatson> but that's not what's happening in 978181 at least
<slangasek> I have a vague memory of seeing something else on IRC about btrfs this week
<cjwatson> oh eep the @home madness
<slangasek> something about problems when /home is on btrfs and you're installing over an existing system?
<cjwatson> it might make a difference if you're reusing an existing @home, yes
<slangasek> bdmurray: is it worth testing that?
<slangasek> i.e., install, then try to install again over it
<bdmurray> I'll look for more duplicates but I don't think so
<slangasek> you don't think it's worth testing?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I don't think its worth testing before release
<slangasek> ok
 * slangasek asks on the bug then
<slangasek> moving on
<bdmurray> I previously mentioned bug 984276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984276
<bdmurray> I was surprised by the number of people who install casper
<ogra_> yeah, but there is no easy solution apart from making it uninstallable on non live fses
<ogra_> i mean, if users want to shoot both their feet, who are we to stop them
<slangasek> the question is why they're doing so
<ogra_> indeed
<slangasek> do they have a fondness for friendly ghosts, or is some web page telling them to, or...
<ogra_> hmm, wasnt there another bug that was actually community reported ?
<ogra_> oh, sorry, i'm blind .. just a master
<bdmurray> casper shows up in software center fwiw
<slangasek> bdmurray: how should we approach this to figure out where this problem is coming from?
<slangasek> in software-center> doh
<slangasek> bdmurray: can you open a bug report on software-center about getting that fixed?
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure
<ogra_> we could possibly make casper chack something like "is a bootloader configured" and make it become a no-op then
<ogra_> *check
<slangasek> hmm, seems to be a general problem
<slangasek> 'fontconfig' also shows up in casper
<bdmurray> ogra_: yes, I think something like that may help too
<slangasek> ogra_: do you want to take that one?
<ogra_> i can, sure ... i guess thats supposed to happen before release ? :)
<ogra_> since SRUing it seems to make not much sense
<slangasek> ogra_: best-effort
<ogra_> k
<slangasek> it still gives benefit if we get it in SRU, and it's not the highest priority issue
<slangasek> btw, as far as bugs go... we have http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html down about where we want it, and if we're taking any more bugs that it's critical to fix for .0, they'll probably be so critical that we don't even need to track them on there :-P
<ogra_> yeah, with luck people with casper installed get the updated version before their system breaks :)
<slangasek> so how should we be tracking bugs that are priorities but that aren't tied to .0?
<slangasek> rls-p-tracking, target to precise-updates?
<ogra_> ++
<cjwatson> I think so
<slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ does that sound good to you?
<bdmurray> slangasek: both? yes that's fine
<slangasek> yeah, both
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other new issues popping up?
<bdmurray> bug 984593 was just reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984593 in Wubi "Wubi upgrade from 10.04.4 to 12.04 exceptions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984593
<bdmurray> I haven't looked at it thoroughly yet
<slangasek> so far I don't see anything wubi related in the bug... and the submitter broke it out into per-issue bugs for us already?
<slangasek> i.e., all the issues he had look like upgrade issues, not wubi issues
<bdmurray> I think they initially installed from wubi then upgraded to precise
<slangasek> yep... I just don't see anything (yet) to make me think he actually had wubi-specific problems
<slangasek> bug #984932 - hah
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984932 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu alternate OEM: main part of the panel missing during end-user configuration" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984932
<slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ missing image again? :)
<cjwatson> hmm
<slangasek> (oem-config vs. ubiquity?)
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay, I'll dig into it and the related bugs more
<cjwatson> different weirdness
<slangasek> bdmurray: cheers
<cjwatson> oem-config-gtk depends: ubiquity-frontend-gtk so I don't think it's missing image
<slangasek> so does everyone have enough bugs to keep themselves feeling productive between now and release?
<cjwatson> more than
<slangasek> does anyone want to take some bugs from cjwatson? :P
<stgraber> I'll take bug 984932
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984932 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu alternate OEM: main part of the panel missing during end-user configuration" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984932
<slangasek> stgraber: thanks
<cjwatson> cool, that should be fine, just generally fielding installer things that come up in QA
<slangasek> fwiw, if anyone's not finding bugs to work on, another source for them is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html ... don't remember if this has been passed around to the team yet
<slangasek> great report by bdmurray that shows the hottest bugs across all the foundations packages he's tracking
<bdmurray> I'd hope I passed it around ;-)
<cjwatson> bug 984989 needs attention (from me)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984989 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "grub install fails. installing from /dev/sda to /dev/sdb" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984989
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
<barry> computer-janitor makes me sad ;)
<slangasek> but you can safely assume that any of the bugs on that graph have a significant user impact and are worth fixing
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> cjwatson: rls-p-tracking?
<ev> ooooh jquery
<bdmurray> sssh
<cjwatson> slangasek: why not, added
<ev> that's going to get a shouty response
<ev> bdmurray: ;)
<slangasek> ev: grandfathered :P
<ev> heh
<slangasek> don't worry, I'll take the heat for the graph not being suitable for integrating into our webapps
<ev> there's always d3.js...
<bdmurray> slangasek: you'll take the heat for the heat graph? ;-)
<slangasek> I will!
<slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
<bdmurray> not that I know of yet
<ev> so I've just discovered that if you download and run wubi when you have a cd in the drive, you now helpfully get the autorun menu
<ev> this is probably my fault
<slangasek> !!
<slangasek> fix it fix it
<ev> my whole day has been fixing things! Can't I just break things for a little while?
<slangasek> no, break things on your own time
<ev> lol, damn
<slangasek> preferably in some other OS ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cjwatson> who's going to the release sprint from our team?
<ev> would still appreciate your collective feedback on that email I sent
<cjwatson> I believe I am
<ev> o/
<slangasek> infinity is
<cjwatson> hm, looks like I need to ask about accom
<ev> who's going to be here not from our team? Rick and Kate?
<ev> and presumably andy for comedy value
<slangasek> heh
<cjwatson> Pete too
<ev> awesome!
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<ev> cjwatson: skaet and I are going to block out some time at the release sprint to discuss the crashdb website design. Care to join us?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 18 16:03:57 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-18-15.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-18-15.06.html
<ogra_> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> thanks ;)
<cjwatson> ev: sure
<stgraber> thanks!
<ev> cool
<ev> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<bdmurray> anyone here for the bug squad meeting?
 * phillw shushhh... don't tell anyone I'm here :P
<MrChrisDruif> I'll won't phillw
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 18 20:02:59 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi :)
<kanliot> o/
<phillw> o/
<MrChrisDruif> \o
<Yorvyk> o/
<gilir> Agenda is still at the same place : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<gilir> #topic gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Review ACTIONS from the last meeting
 * phillw phew... nothing I have not done
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, any progress for offline documentation ?
<MrChrisDruif> Nope, sorry about that
<MrChrisDruif> Week was crazy busy
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: plenty of time, not needed for about 3 months for 12.10 :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, no problem, I think it's already too late for 12.04
<gilir> let's add it to the TODO list for 12?10 :)
<MrChrisDruif> True, but still it's better to get it done so we only need to add it! ^_^
<gilir> ok, let's move to the next topic
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: let's see what UDS-Q decide on the matter
<PereZ> hi =P
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha PereZ
<kanliot> ok phil sent me an email i'm working from that
<kanliot> https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-qa/msg00598.html
<kanliot> a
<kanliot> 1.thanks to the devs, and the hard-working release team
<kanliot> 2. we need more testers: please read
<kanliot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
<kanliot> 3.there's a bug with 32 bit apt.  So people with 32 bit applications installed will have problems with those applications when they upgrade.  see
<kanliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850264 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Fix committed]
<kanliot> any questions before i move on?
<kanliot> k
<kanliot> 4.
<kanliot> the release of 12.04 will have  a bug
<kanliot> unfixed bug
<kanliot> full disk encryption will not be working, and you can install with full disk encryption selected
<kanliot> so installs in that case will not work
<kanliot> I'm looking for help. i donno how to document this
<kanliot> since fixing it is not possible
<kanliot> any comments phillw?
<gilir> it's affecting only us or all ISO ?
<kanliot> good question
<kanliot> i donno
<kanliot> but it's real enough
<phillw> kanliot: there is work-around
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; all releases
<MrChrisDruif> It's just not affecting a lot of people due to how the bug happens
<phillw> gilir: it is a kernel bug, for limited number of set ups. but is expected to affect everyone
<gilir> so it shoudl be documented in the Ubuntu release notes
<phillw> gilir: do you now have my emails go to spam :(
<phillw> I did explain it earlier as to what was decided.
<gilir> adding a note on the release notes sounds enough for me, since we can't fix it, we can't do better IMO
<MrChrisDruif> Shouldn't it be on the "main" Ubuntu release notes if it affects us all?
<phillw> gilir: no, they do not see it as warranted at this point, just that we have the work-around documented, in case it goes viral.
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, yes, it should be
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: it affects, so far, one person. It is a confirmed bug, but only only on that set up. They are wathing for dupes arriving.
<phillw> *watching*
<gilir> ok, so if it's not mentionned on the main releases notes, we can still add it on ours if we think it's necessary
<MrChrisDruif> So for now only document the work-around and if it's confirmed it'll be put on Ubuntu's release notes?
<MrChrisDruif> Yup
<gilir> we are quite free for our release notes :)
<gilir> kanliot, phillw, anything else ?
<kanliot> no
<phillw> gilir: ATM, just register it at FAQ/WorkAround
<phillw> we can always move it higher if it does become a major problem for the entire *butnu release.
<gilir> ok thanks kanliot and phillw :)
<kanliot> wwia
<kanliot> wait
<kanliot> 1 more thing
<phillw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264
<kanliot> uh
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850264 in apt (Ubuntu Oneiric) "given a foreign architecture of i386 on amd64 machine, and an outdated libc, apt tries to remove libc-bin" [High,Fix committed]
<kanliot> nvidia drivers are really bad
<kanliot> phillw how bad are they?
<kanliot> apparently tons of crashes
<kanliot> anyhow thats all i have
<phillw> I am on the previous bug, that messes up any upgrade from 11.10--> 12.04?
<kanliot> and it's never clear that it's not the applications that are crashing
<kanliot> ok you go first
<gilir> phillw told us that it should be fixed soon
<gilir> well, already fixed, just need to be uploaded,  anything to add ?
<phillw> The fix for that is out and about, but it does REALLY need testing, we are running out of time for the RC's
<phillw> gilir: , yes - it needs testing & proven as a fix.
<gilir> phillw, ping me when it's in, and if you need test
<phillw> it will be in the next respin
<gilir> ok
<phillw> which *should* be there now.
<gilir> anything to add ?
<phillw> kanliot: anything else to add? this time next week, it is D-Day+1 :)
<kanliot> no thanks
<kanliot> you should be studying phillw
<kanliot> do your homework
<gilir> ok, let's move to the next topic
<phillw> gilir: I'll keep people updated for anything important.
<gilir> #topic kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  kanliot - Weekly report - Update from Comms team
<kanliot> Mario Behling quickly replied to my email, he says the osuosl people will put up a test site soon.  (this allows us to test the new lubuntu.net website)
<kanliot> end of report
<gilir> thanks kanliot
<gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> nothing on 12.04 this week, it shoudl be ready for our part :)
<gilir> I started the preparation for 12.10
<gilir> nothing spectacular so far
<gilir> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lubuntu-q-work-items
<gilir> if you want to look at it ^^
<gilir> you can also add comments on the whiteboard section
<gilir> the goal is to prepare all importants items to discuss for UDS
<MrChrisDruif> Good to hear gilir
<gilir> any questions ?
<gilir> of course, it's still not compete, I have still some suprises hidden ;)
<phillw> when do we start the bi-anual discussions about what goes in to the next release?
<gilir> phillw, you can start it on the blueprint
<phillw> *bi-annual*\
<gilir> ideally, I would like to start it right after the 12.04 release, and to end it just after UDS
<phillw> gilir: less of the 'me' bit.... I'm holding back a queue :P
<gilir> phillw, feel free to put them on the whiteboard, to be sure we don't forget them
<phillw> that is a massive +1 from me :)
<phillw> not from me, from others!
<gilir> just, if you want to start discussion for application by default, do it with some arguments :)
<gilir> any others questions ?
<gilir> I forgot, you can subscribe to the blueprint, to be aware of any modifications
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<phillw> gilir: are you sure you want to let the people on the facebook page know of this?
<MrChrisDruif> Ali started communicating again and in turn added a section about what differs us from Ubuntu and what we have in common. I can't remember anything else, so nothing to report
<gilir> phillw, it's not a secret, but keep the warning I made about applications by default
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; why not? The more people contributing the better right?
<gilir> thanks MrChrisDruif
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: gilir I was being light hearted.... the fb people would love to contribute..... sorry if you took it the wrong way :-(
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, add the Actions from Meetings to the Agenda gilir
<gilir> next meeting is the last meeting before the release
<MrChrisDruif> Already?
<MrChrisDruif> =(
<phillw> gilir: it is? Release is tuesday?\
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; Thursday!
<gilir> phillw, usually it's on thurday, no ?
<phillw> Or, so I was told
<gilir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<ScottK> It's always Thursday unless it's 10-10-10.
<phillw> This will be news to the Canonical team, then :P
<phillw> RC tomorrow, release tuesday.
<stgraber> RC tomorrow, release Thursday
<ScottK> See the spate of late FFes from Canonical development projects over multiple releases.  The schedule is always a surprise to them.
<gilir> phillw, you see, you have 2 days more, let's relax :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe
<gilir> anyway, for the next meeting, let's make sure all it's ready for the release
<gilir> documentation, release notes, news article, coffee ... :)
<gilir> anything to add before the end of the meeting ?
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; you got my note?
<phillw> ScottK: when balloons announced release was on tuesday, we just accepted it as so :P
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, about what ?
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, add the Actions from Meetings to the Agenda gilir
<MrChrisDruif> That one
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, what do you mean by this ?
<MrChrisDruif> Add the Actions from previous meeting(s) to the Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> That way it's more easy to see what actions should be done
<gilir> ah ok, I'll do it next time we have actions in the meeting
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks ^_^
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: make gilir to #action it :P
<MrChrisDruif> #action gilir Add the Actions from meetings to the Agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: gilir Add the Actions from meetings to the Agenda
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; like so?
<phillw> indeed :)
<gilir> unless I end the meeting before this :)
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 18 20:54:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-18-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-18-20.02.html
<MrChrisDruif> You'd have to do more then just cut the meeting log gilir ;-)
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, thanks again for chairing
<phillw> gilir: ditto
<icallitvera> is this the lubutnu meeting chat?
<MrChrisDruif> icallitvera; this is the proper channel, however the meeting was a few hours ago
<MrChrisDruif> 3 hours to be precise
<icallitvera> shoot
<icallitvera> ha precise
<MrChrisDruif> icallitvera; but the team is always "available" on #lubuntu-offtopic
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, pun intended ;-)
<MrChrisDruif> icallitvera; /join #lubuntu-offtopic
<icallitvera> k thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-19
<dholbach> o/
<cprofitt> 0/
<pleia2> o/
<dpm> o/ ;)
<wendar> o/
 * dholbach pings the rest of the CC folks
<Gwaihir> o/
<dholbach> wendar, do you know if anyone else of the ARB said they were able to make time?
<wendar> ajmitch said he'd try, but it is 5am there
<stgraber> I'm sort of around and not for long :)
<dholbach> yes, impossibly early - I guess I'd send him back to bed if he'd show up :)
<dholbach> ok, let's get started then :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 19 17:02:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> #topic Meet-Up with the ARB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Meet-Up with the ARB
<dholbach> welcome wendar and stgraber - thanks for making time
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<stgraber> surprisingly good for release - 1 week
<dholbach> :-)
<wendar> doing well, just got back from Taiwan yesterday
<dholbach> how long have you two been on the ARB already?
<wendar> since the beginning, so about 1.5 years
<wendar> (3 cycles)
 * cprofitt nods
<dholbach> you've had quite a lot of challenges during this time: getting the board set up, the infrastructure changed - how do you feel things are going now?
<wendar> I was concerned in January, it seemed we were behind and dropping further behind
<wendar> but, we caught up over the past few months
<cprofitt> What are the biggest challenges, you see, for the ARB moving forward?
<wendar> On the whole, the same challenges as REVU had
<cprofitt> How significant are issues with developer not responding to requests for feedback?
<stgraber> these aren't too bad, when we mark that we need feedback the entry disappears from our queue
<stgraber> the problem is more with developers needing a lot of help to get their stuff ready for Ubuntu
<dholbach> so compared to REVU, you think that would be improving the tools and educating the submitter?
<stgraber> we could keep rejecting them all until they send us something that's perfect, but my guess is that we wouldn't have anything in extras if we were doing that
<wendar> yeah, developers not responding doesn't block us, they're just invisible
<cprofitt> I apologize for not being more familiar with the ARB que, is it public? Do you have any way of knowing how anticipated an application is?
<wendar> The queue is public
<wendar> there isn't currently any rating system for how desirable an application is
<wendar> but, right now we just try to get all applications through equally
<cprofitt> wendar: I was thinking in relation to how LP works with bug heat...
<wendar> and, really, it's the responsiveness of the developer that slows an app down the most
 * cprofitt nods
<dholbach> so if it was easier for the submitter to get it right, you feel the general process and tools would be good enough and things would get in in a jiffy?
<dholbach> ... and they were responsive
<wendar> yes
<wendar> right now we have ~6 old apps, from before we required the developer to do their own packaging
<wendar> those require a lot more work than the new process, so we've grandfathered them
<wendar> but, it does mean they're held up longer in the queue
<wendar> I anticipate we can clear those out in this cycle
<cprofitt> how many apps are in the que? how many were approved this last cycle?
<wendar> there are a total of 20 apps currently in the queue
<wendar> we launched 8 last cycle
<wendar> there is one more that we approved pending 1 change from the developer
<wendar> but, the developer hasn't gotten back with the fix yet
<cprofitt> how many of those 20 that are still in the que were there are the start of this cycle... and how many new ones came in?
<wendar> (it was one window that always appeared in Spanish)
<wendar> all apps in the queue currently are new this cycle
<wendar> I don't know how many came in total
<wendar> I know we process 2-5 new apps each week
<wendar> but, I don't have a count of how many are brand new each week, and how many are a developer submitting a response to an existing request
<dholbach> 20 is without the ones that "need work"?
<cprofitt> do you feel, as the communinty grows, that this process can scale?
<stgraber> dholbach: right, because we can't see or update the "need work" one, so we consider them as not being in the queue
<dholbach> stgraber, gotcha
<wendar> we'll need new volunteers to scale up
<stgraber> dholbach: ideally we'd have some way of expiring these and rejecting them, but that's not possible in myapps
 * ajmitch is sort of here now :)
<dholbach> ajmitch, go back to bed! :)
<wendar> but, yes, the process itself is working fine (barring a few bugs in the submission system)
<dholbach> stgraber, do you know if there's a bug filed to make that possible somehow?
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes, I talked to achuni about that a couple of days ago
<wendar> and, we can easily accomodate new volunteers as we get them (even without making them full voting members)
<ajmitch> we sorted through a few related bugs there
<dholbach> in the mail exchange somebody mentioned a arb-helpers team and I think that's a great idea
<dholbach> if that'd get rolling in Q, that'd be a huge win already
<wendar> we're tracking the most critical bugs on our Agenda actions
<wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda
<cprofitt> how are applications taken in the que? First come first server or someother method?
<wendar> 1) pick off the quick responses
<wendar> (like "you submitted a binary package, please submit a PPA...")
<wendar> 2) pick off those that need slightly more investigation
<wendar> 3) clear out old apps that need packaging
<wendar> And, we each give slightly higher priority to apps that we've personally adopted.
<wendar> To see that app all the way through to publishing.
<cprofitt> so as a specific question... what has happened with TagPlayer?
<wendar> That's one of the old ones, needs to be packaged.
<ajmitch> currently in the staging PPA & I had highvoltage look over it a couple of days ago
<dholbach> it looks like you have a number of interesting problems to tackle - do you have a priority list of "meta issues" you'd like to fix (or see fixed) in Q?
<wendar> It's been through several rounds with the developer.
<wendar> Initially it wouldn't work installed in /opt, which is a requirement.
 * cprofitt nods
<wendar> dholback: what is "Q"? Quickly?
<dholbach> precise+1 :)
<dholbach> sorry :)
<wendar> oh, that Q
<ajmitch> some mythical as-yet-unannounced name
<highvoltage> hi everyone
<wendar> yes, the issues on our agenda page are the blockers for us
<wendar> if those bugs in MyApps could be fixed, it would help enormously
<wendar> there are also some bugs in Quickly that are blockers for those apps getting through
<wendar> so, they should be the easiest to approve, but actually all require manual work
<czajkowski> wendar: is there a  way we the CC can help with those blockers?
<ajmitch> czajkowski: probably not now, there was progress made on them this week
<wendar> aye, those seem to be in hand
<dholbach> Is there any other kind of help you would like to see?
<cprofitt> Thanks for the answers on those things... it has given me a better understanding of what hurdles the ARB faces.
<wendar> In terms of the CC specifically, I was concerned about our relation to the Canonical Community Team, but now I think that was a simple mis-communication
<wendar> They thought there were 70 apps pending in the queue
<pleia2> ah, good
<wendar> so, were feeling a bit panic'd, and like the ARB needed a rescue
<dholbach> might the 70 come from this page maybe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/ToReview?
<dpm> ah, so perhaps I should clarify the 70 apps figure
<cprofitt> that is a different list than - https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/arb/
<dpm> Jono asked me to provide stats on ARB apps in the queue
<wendar> dholbach/dpm: where does that page come from?
<stgraber> right but that includes the needs-information ones we can't do anything about and that aren't visible in the queue ;)
<ajmitch> wendar: I put that together a couple of days ago
<dpm> so 70 was the sum of "Needs information" + "Pending review" + "Review in progress"
<stgraber> dpm: right, but the queue is "pending review" + "review in progress"
<dpm> I thought they all were relevant
<ajmitch> it required guessing the ID of the apps in needs info state, and they cannot be adjusted
<wendar> okay, that makes sense
<stgraber> some will probably stay in needs-information forever
<cprofitt> dpm: is there any process to 'drop' apps after a certain period of time is the developer does not respond to a request?
<ajmitch> dpm: they are, this is why the bugs were blockers
<stgraber> or until we can get some way to expire/reject them
<wendar> yes, as far as our process goes, "Needs information" is equivalent to "Rejected"
<wendar> if the developer doesn't respond, they don't get help
<dpm> as in "Needs information" there are also apps that need input from the ARB, due to the MyApps bug, as ajmitch mentions
<dpm> but actually, this is just a number
<ajmitch> dpm: I knew that we couldn't see some apps, and there were some that the developer had responded to but who hadn't resubmitted for review
<dpm> yes
<wendar> This might be a good question for the CC: whether it's worth putting together some more caring way to reach out to developers who haven't responded in a while
<dpm> what I'm trying to say is that what we are discussing here is not the size of the queue, so we shouldn't put too much focus on it
<cprofitt> wendar: I think, personal thought, that reaching out one additional time has value... but worry about how that scales
<ajmitch> after a lengthy discussion with achuni on this the other evening, I think we'll get a way to be able to manage the apps in that state
<wendar> okay, so that's our highest priority bug
<dpm> so if there was any misunderstanding there this should clear it up :)
<dholbach> so there's more apps in the queue than 20, but it's hard to tell them apart
<cprofitt> I do think having a target for applications getting from submitted to Review in Progress should have a target timeline
<wendar> that means we can expect a quick bump of old submissions that need triaging, sometime in the next few weeks
<dpm> dholbach, correct
<dholbach> so trying to sum up the discussion up until now there seem to be difficulties or possible improvements in 1) the review infrastructure, 2) the packaging/distro bits, 3) the workflow and 4) the team
<wendar> dholbach: that's mostly due to an old bug. Apps are supposed to reappear in the queue once the developer responds.
<wendar> dholbach: but, there's a chance we will need a feature to tell them apart in the future
<cprofitt> it is outside of our control if the applications have issues (though tools provided to developers could help)... but ensuring a time from submission to an application getting reviewed is important.
<wendar> cprofitt: I agree
<wendar> cprofitt: right now our response time is good, generally less than a week for new submissions
<pleia2> great
<cprofitt> I do think it would be nice to know that an application has been 'in and out' for a developer to fix an issue
<wendar> cprofitt: in terms of priorities for next cycle, I'd like to first focus on clearing out the remaining backlog, and then on increasing our response time
<ajmitch> it's working through & approving some of the older ones that takes a bit more time
<wendar> er, decreasing :)
<cprofitt> it looks like they may come back and simply say Pending Review again...
<cprofitt> +1 wendar
<czajkowski> wendar: do you think increasing the board would help ?
<cprofitt> when did we start requiring apps to be packaged?
<highvoltage> wendar: maybe a bit off topic for this meeting, but do you think we could bring up the arb-helpers idea at UDS? it sounds like a possible way to get some of the usual ubuntu developers (like motus) involved
<czajkowski> as I know asking someone to commit to 5 hrs a week for some people is not possible
<wendar> cprofitt: in January we switched to requiring a PPA
<dpm> So I'd like to reask the question about the relationship with the Community team in the light that the particular "70 apps" number was not a worry for the community team. You felt that in trying to help we were putting too much pressure on the ARB. If the Community team can help in the future, how do you think we can work together to ensure the Free Software app developer process succeds?
<wendar> highvoltage: yes, I think that's a great topic for UDS, maybe even a BOF
<wendar> dpm: I see two greatest areas of help, one is where you've been very helpful in the past, which is maintaining the contacts inside Canonical to get our bug and feature requests through for the submission site and developer.ubuntu.com
 * ajmitch agrees, getting us in contact with the right people at the right time is very helpful
<wendar> The other we could use help with is inspiring the developers.
<dholbach> wendar, by developers you mean app developers or Ubuntu (platform) developers?
<wendar> Now that we've got the queue running smoothly, my greatest concern is the app developers who don't respond.
 * ajmitch is sure the arb developers need inspiration at times as well :)
<wendar> Why don't they respond? Is there some way we can serve their needs better?
<wendar> I think the Community team could have some good perspectives there.
<wendar> Whether we need to survey the app developers, or put together some training sessions.
<wendar> Or other ideas.
<wendar> I'm not exactly sure what's needed, but you all are aces at this.
<czajkowski> wendar: would more board members help with your queuses/reviews?
<wendar> czajkowski: yes, we'll need to restaff soon
<ajmitch> only if those that join are going to be active
<dholbach> so you feel the issue with the Community team is resolved now and we ... sort of ... know how to move forward?
<wendar> we're also seeking volunteers who aren't voters
<cprofitt> wendar: similar to bug-squad and bug-control?
<czajkowski> wendar: but do you think you need more than the current number, many more?
 * highvoltage would probably be better in a arb-helpers kind of team than on the arb team itself (since I can't contribute to the levels that the others can every week)
<wendar> dholbach: I think so, the clash in perspective was really just a difference between "panic mode" and "the queue is running pretty well now, let's work on other things"
<wendar> highvoltage: honestly, you're doing great, and I'd rather keep you on the board
<wendar> highvoltage: the idea is that the board should mostly be doing the final review/vote
<dholbach> I feel we're not going to resolve all open issues (points 1) to 4) I mentioned above) now and specific UDS sessions for all of them might help - right now in the CC meeting I'm personally mostly interested in the ARB team aspects (if that's alright :))
<wendar> highvoltage: and the volunteers would be doing the leg work (some of us do both)
<dholbach> How is the communication working for you in the team?
 * stgraber disappears, time for some food ;)
<ajmitch> in the team, it's mostly IRC, and votes on the mailing list
<dholbach> stgraber, bon appÃ©tit
<wendar> We have monthly meetings, which are good for catching up on any questions about more unusual apps or changes in process
<highvoltage> wendar: thanks for the kind words :)
<ajmitch> most of us lurk in #ubuntu-arb & comment when there are questions
<wendar> we're pretty informal, and that seems to work well for us
<dholbach> so you feel you mostly pass on the baton quickly enough or document what needs to be documented?
<wendar> yes, that seems to be working
<ajmitch> wendar has done a great job with documenting stuff on the wiki
<dpm> highvoltage, here's some info on the team, which exists already, but is inactive: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/app-review-board/2012-February/000388.html
<dpm> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-app-review-contributors
<wendar> and, no conflicts whatsoever in the team, which is nice
<dholbach> dpm, sounds like that would fit well on the ARB agenda page :-)
<highvoltage> dpm: great
 * ajmitch needs to update the agenda page for the next meeting
<dpm> sounds good
<dholbach> Is there anything else you can think of which would make apps in Ubuntu a success?
<wendar> dholbach: for clarity, you mean your focus is on recruiting new members or non-member volunteers (sounds great!)
<wendar> better tools for developers
<wendar> Quickly is okay, but needs work.
<wendar> Other tools have a pretty steep on-ramp for new developers.
<ajmitch> part of that problem is too many options, I think :)
<wendar> And, pkgme has great promise for automated packaging, but doesn't produce ARB-compatible apps yet.
<ajmitch> dpm: I hear we're to talk to you about developer.ubuntu.com at UDS
<ScottK> If Quickly could be replaced by something Qt/PyQt based then it could be used to target multiple platforms.  I think that would be exciting to app developers.
<dpm> ajmitch, you can talk to me about d.u.c at any time :)
<dholbach> wendar, I just thought since the arb-helpers mail was from Feb, it might fit well on the agenda page, so you can track it better
<ScottK> Develop on Ubuntu, run everywhere.
<dholbach> wendar, not sure if we're talking about the same thing :)
<wendar> ScottK: I'd be thrilled
 * ScottK <-- Not volunteering.
<dpm> ScottK, there is work on a pyqt template for quickly, by xdatap1
<ajmitch> ScottK: darn
<dpm> come on, I thought you'd be volunteering, ScottK ;)
<wendar> dholbach: I was back-referring to
<wendar> I feel we're not going to resolve all open issues (points 1) to 4) I mentioned above) now and specific UDS sessions for all of them might help - right now in the CC meeting I'm personally mostly interested in the ARB team aspects (if that's alright :))
<dholbach> ah ok
<wendar> dholbach: and, yes, adding arb-helpers to agenda page is good
<dholbach> yeah, I felt that we wouldn't be able to cover all aspects (like packaging problems, infrastructure improvements, etc.) in this meeting, so maybe the community/team aspects were probably of most interest in the CC meeting
<wendar> dholbach: on going action item
<dholbach> so arb-helpers, team communication, restaffing, relationship with other teams and the like
<wendar> yes, makes sense
<dholbach> personally without my CC hat on, I'm interested in a lot more than those, so I'll make time at UDS to be in the sessions :)
<wendar> In that context, I'd say our greatest concern is how to recruit new volunteers, and how to keep up motivation in existing ones.
<wendar> It seems that it's easiest to keep motivated when we have a sense that things are rolling along well.
<ajmitch> sometimes my review time is a bit more sporadic, though highvoltage & I are trying out getting together on irc once a week to look at things
<dholbach> I could imagine that motivation in review teams is often very closely tied to getting thing through, so having moments of success - where you know you're happy, the submitter is happy and lots of users are happy as well
<wendar> It was pretty discouraging  back in January when we were behind, dropping further behind, and getting almost daily messages asking for status updates.
<dholbach> working together on something might be motivational as well
<wendar> I pretty much hated working on ARB at that point, and heard the same from others.
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes, I think that helps in the rare cases we have overlapping timezones :)
<wendar> It's better now, it's managable.
<cprofitt> I will try to make a session at UDS too
<highvoltage> wendar: yes, that was a hard time to be on the ARB!
<dholbach> ajmitch, even if you don't - getting a mail from your team mate saying "hey, I figured X out, I submitted it to the branch" is very nice and motivational :)
<cprofitt> I feel we need to ensure that the ARB and the process is well supported and functional as the community grows
<wendar> So, it's a matter of keeping that flow going, to keep motivation at a steady level.
<ajmitch> reviewing just often isn't fun work
<ajmitch> I think one of the harder parts is writing up a nice rejection email
<dholbach> wendar, I can see that pressure doesn't help if you face a lot of problems - and it is a hard problem to solve, but also a very important problem to solve - I hope with multiple hats on that was understanding and diplomatic enough :))
<cprofitt> ajmitch: would having 'stock' responses like bug-control help with that?
<ajmitch> cprofitt: we do
 * cprofitt nods
<wendar> dholbach: Yes, thanks.
<ajmitch> cprofitt: it was cases like zero-ballistics which I rejected the other day, where the app was GPL but it depended on an 'open-source' but non-commercial library that took some time
<wendar> dholbach: It sounds backwards, but the two months of no external pressure was enormously helpful.
<cprofitt> I for one appreciate the hard work you have all put in on the ARB. Thank you.
<dholbach> it has been very helpful to hear of all this from you and get a better overview over what you are working on
<wendar> dholbach: Sometimes self-motivation is the best motivation.
<dholbach> for now I have no more questions, but sure will have more at UDS or before :)
<wendar> Thank you all, we really appreciate the support.
 * highvoltage usually finds motivation in wendar's self-motivation
<ajmitch> highvoltage: agreed
<cprofitt> I am good as well... this has been very informative and I too will ensure I make a session at UDS
<wendar> highvoltage: aw, thanks :)
<dholbach> I'd like to thank you all for the hard work you put into this. Making apps a success in Ubuntu is more important than many realise, so I hope you will keep up the good work and ask for help if you need any.
<wendar> Thanks!
<ajmitch> are there blueprints registered on LP yet to subscribe to?
<ajmitch> dholbach: thanks, we'll keep on trying to get through the queue :)
<wendar> ajmitch: We should probably create them.
<dholbach> yes, and work with dpm to get them in
<dpm> I can only but join the thank yous for your hard work
<dholbach> thanks dpm too :)
<dholbach> Gwaihir, pleia2, czajkowski: more questions from you?
<cprofitt> ys, thank you dpm
<pleia2> all set, thanks for coming
<highvoltage> thanks to the cc for setting this up!
<dholbach> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<Gwaihir> dholbach, nope, been following the discussion and it was pretty exhaustive
<dholbach> CoC comments review is up for the next meeting, does anybody have anything else?
<pleia2> we'll be doing a call for nominations for our new membership boards soon
<cprofitt> no
<pleia2> we've agreed to do away with regional boards and the new boards will have meetings at 12:00 UTC and 22:00 UTC respectively, just waiting to hear back from a few board members about which timeslot they prefer so we know how many spots we have to fill
 * dpm goes for dinner
<dpm> see you all!
<ajmitch> thanks dpm
<Gwaihir> thanks dpm!
<dholbach> pleia2, thanks a lot for looking into this
<pleia2> I think that's it :)
<dholbach> ok perfect
<dholbach> I think that's a wrap - thanks everyone for coming
<cprofitt> thanks dholbach for running the meeting
<dholbach> I'll attempt a summary to keep the discussion going and prepare for UDS
<dholbach> who wants to update the wiki pages?
<ajmitch> dholbach: thanks, sorry I was a little late :)
<dholbach> Gwaihir seems to volunteer for chairing
<dholbach> ajmitch, man - that's totally understandable if it's 5 over there :)
<Gwaihir> dholbach, yep, count me in
<pleia2> I can update the wiki, but if someone else could write the summary for this meeting that'd be great (I've written a lot o them lately)
<dholbach> I'll do that
<pleia2> thanks :)
<dholbach> #action Gwaihir to chair next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Gwaihir to chair next meeting
<dholbach> #action dholbach to summarise meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: dholbach to summarise meeting
<dholbach> #action pleia2 to update wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to update wiki
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 19 18:03:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-19-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-19-17.02.html
<dholbach> THANKS EVERYONE
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-20
 * pleia2 waves
<nhandler> o/
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Apr 20 00:00:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for April 19th. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> ach applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> s/ach/Each
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> #voters nhandler Pendulum cyphermox dinda pleia2
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum cyphermox dinda nhandler pleia2
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> caravena, are you here?
<pleia2> fitoschido, are you here?
<pleia2> MrChrisDruif: how about you? :)
<MrChrisDruif> Meh, I might be
<pleia2> #topic MrChrisDruif membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MrChrisDruif membership
<pleia2> introduce away!
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, for who doesn't know me I'm Chris Druif and I'm mainly involved with Lubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> My wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MrChrisDruif
<MrChrisDruif> You can find all my contact info on there, including everything I don't really use like launchpad and ubuntuforums
<MrChrisDruif> I've been the Wiki/Docs Coordinator of Lubuntu since January and today I've actually become a member of the Ubuntu Wiki Docs Editors
<MrChrisDruif> Please feel free to ask any questions
<pleia2> some of your testimonial writers did a better job of covering all the work you do than your wiki page does
<MrChrisDruif> Oh, I also help out on Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter by updating the links for the flavor meetings and sometimes summaries
<pleia2> there you go
<MrChrisDruif> I'm not one to boast
<pleia2> several testimonials from beginners team too
<dinda> looks like you have a good history of work in the community - and tons of testimonials
<Unit193> I'm also here to support him.
<pleia2> thanks Unit193
<MrChrisDruif> I think if you look at the raw version /Testimonials you'll see almost every page I've edited ^_^
<MrChrisDruif> s//Testimonials//Contributions
<pleia2> ah, good
<MrChrisDruif> Any questions? Please ask if I forgot to mention anything
<pleia2> always nice to see a future goals section, that's for including it
<pleia2> s/that's/thanks
<dinda> MrChrisDruif: you just made me very curious about Lubuntu!
<MrChrisDruif> We've got a cool channel with people far more knowledgeable about Lubuntu then me on #lubuntu-offtopic and for support go to #lubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> Including but not limited to Unit193 ^_^
<pleia2> #vote MrChrisDruif Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: MrChrisDruif Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<pleia2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: MrChrisDruif Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats and welcome MrChrisDruif :)
<nhandler> Congratulations MrChrisDruif !
<MrChrisDruif> O_O
<MrChrisDruif> Yay! Thanks everyone!
<Unit193> Congrats!
<dinda> congratulations!  and keep up the great work!
<cyrex> Congratz!!
<Pendulum> MrChrisDruif: Congrats and welcome!
<pleia2> #topic Unit193 Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Unit193 Membership
<Unit193> Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193 LP: http://launchpad.net/~unit193
<Unit193> Howdy! My name is Unit 193, I'm from Ohio and part of the Ohio LoCo. Our city has a small ReLoCo that has had events I have gone to, I haven't been able to make any of the major statewide events as they have either been the wrong day, or I couldn't get there, but I really hope to make OLF this year.
<MrChrisDruif> I'm rooting for ya Unit193 !!
<Unit193> Unlike the person last month, my wiki seems to be stuck on -q mode as I am not a wiki person. :P  I am involved with the Lubuntu and Xubuntu projects, randomly help the news team if they really need it, and you can find me in random other places on and off Freenode.
<Unit193> (Had to prewrite or I'd go blank)
<pleia2> caravena: thanks for joining us, we'll get to your application next :)
<cyphermox> Unit193: no problem, a lot of this meeting is scripted ;)
<knome> as i state in the wiki, Unit193 gets +1 from me
<caravena> pleia2 ok
<MrChrisDruif> Same here
<Unit193> Thanks.
 * SergioMeneses takes seat
<pleia2> thanks knome and MrChrisDruif
<nhandler> Unit193: Any plans to get involved with that ISO adoption project?
<Unit193> Does it go by any other name?
<Unit193> I may not have heard of it, so I'd have to check it out.
<nhandler> Unit193: Let me find a link (I admit, I'm not the most familiar)
<pleia2> http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/04/would-you-adopt-iso.html
<pleia2> it's a more formal adoption of the iso tests you already do, to be responsible for a particular set of tests for an iso getting finished
<knome> if those iso's cover xubuntu iso's, i will +1 for Unit193 doing that too ;)
<nhandler> Yep, that was it. Thanks pleia2
<pleia2> it does!
<knome> (otherwise, only +.99)
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> Hardware is a bit limited, and I can't hit any 64bit, but I can hit 32.
<nhandler> I'm sure many people would appreciate the help
<knome> yes, definitely, especially if it is on the derivative images (whether that was xubuntu or lubuntu or any other)
<Unit193> I'd love to help with that, but it'd be hard commiting to it as the computer that has the power to test the best is a shared computer, so I'd have to check. (Also,  affew real life events I have to work with)
<pleia2> another thank you for including future info so we don't need to ask :)
<pleia2> #vote Unit193 Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Unit193 Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Unit193> Heh, I tried, but it may be a touch outdated.
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<caravena> I work with Ubuntu 12.04 developed, I'm chilean and talk spanih default
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<pleia2> Pendulum?
<MrChrisDruif> caravena; just a minute, just wait for the results
<caravena> ok sorry
<pleia2> looks like we may have lost her for the moment, and that's quorum so
<pleia2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Unit193 Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats, welcome Unit193! :)
<knome> congrats Unit193! (and i'm off to bed... o/ see you)
<Unit193> Thanks!
<nhandler> Congratulations Unit193 !
<pleia2> #topic caravena Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: caravena Membership
<caravena> I'm chilean
<MrChrisDruif> Congratulations buddy!!
<caravena> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CristianAravena
<cyrex> Congratz Unit193
<caravena> https://launchpad.net/~caravena
<Unit193> Thanks, cyphermox
<Unit193> Err.
<cyphermox> yay for tab completion ;)
<caravena> I work in ubuntu-cl
<caravena> in marketing
<caravena> Pedro Villavicencio help to my
<pleia2> caravena: I'm a little confused, is this you too? https://launchpad.net/~cristianvirtual (they are listed as the ubuntu-cl contact)
<caravena> I'm working now in flisol -> http://guliqq.unap.cl
<caravena> pleia2, no, I'm "caravena"
<caravena> Cristian Aravena
<pleia2> caravena: your wiki page says you're the LoCo Contact, but you are not
<caravena> oummm sorry
<caravena> bug
<caravena> :S
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, ubuntu-cl team has a council
<caravena> Thanks SergioMeneses
<pleia2> SergioMeneses: right, I'm going by this: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-cl
<pleia2> he's not on that either
<pleia2> caravena: do you think you could update your wiki with accurate details, maybe put a bit more information about what you do in the LoCo?
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, you're rigth
<caravena> then I going to update my wiki page
<pleia2> caravena: also, get some more testimonials, from people you work with in the chilean loco :)
<caravena> pleia2, ok
<cyphermox> cyrex: you there?
<cyrex> yes
<cyrex> I am here cyphermox
<pleia2> #topic cyrex Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: cyrex Membership
<cyphermox> alright :)
<cyrex> hello
<cyrex> Should I start now?
<cyrex> Sorry guys a LITTLE nervous
<pleia2> yes, go ahead
<cyrex> I am Luis Alvarado from Venezuela. Have been an active Ubuntu user since 5.04. Started helping other users with Linux and Ubuntu since 2006-2007, at least for user from Windows. Have taught several Linux classes that focus on Ubuntu, the server side and desktop side. Also participated in an international event called FLISOL (Will participate this year again). My time right now is spend in askubuntu helping out, teaching/promoting about Ubuntu Linux in
<cyrex>  Venezuela and I am going to start my webpage ubuntuve.com from scratch which will be about video tutorials about Ubuntu and programming in Linux (Spanish mostly).
<cyrex> https://launchpad.net/~luisalvaradox (Empty for the time being. Got a couple of tools I want to add this year)
<cyrex> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/luisalvarado
<cyrex> This is a link to askubuntu where I do some helping: http://askubuntu.com/users/7035/
<cyrex> And here is a link to the ranking so it might help or something: http://askubuntu.com/users?tab=reputation&filter=all
<pleia2> always nice to meet other folks who are putting Ubuntu into schools :)
<pleia2> wow, you've been using askubuntu for a long time!
<MrChrisDruif> That's true
<cyrex> yes. About a year
<pleia2> cyrex: is teaching Venezuelan Users about Ubuntu something separate from your job?
<cyrex> I do it in the job and separate
<pleia2> great
<cyrex> for example, when talking about networking, computer assembly or programming I always talk to them about linux and ubuntu
<cyrex> so many of them eventually take the linux course which I teach using ubuntu
<cyrex> that is in the job, outside the job and help out friends and anybody interested in using a real operating system
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> really great work
<cyrex> I have a small group in facebook with some friends that I help with this. Also have ubuntuve.com/ubuntuvenezuela.com which I will start from scratch with video tutorials of how to use ubuntu, configuration, etc.
<nhandler> Besides the videos, any other plans/goals for the future?
<cyrex> Well my 2012 goals in order are: Finish ubuntu tutorials on webpage, finish symfony programming and I want to start working on python so I can help with Ubuntu. Right now my plan is to create awareness of ubuntu in Venezuela and maybe a social group around it. Then try to work my way up to someday maybe work in Ubuntu as a developer.
<dinda> aks728
<pleia2> nice to hear :)
<pleia2> #vote cyrex Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: cyrex Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<dinda> akc, wrong keyboard
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<pleia2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cyrex Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats and welcome cyrex!
<MrChrisDruif> Congratulations cyrex!!
<nhandler> Congratulations !
<cyrex> Whohoo. Thanks guys
<cyphermox> congrats cyrex
<cyrex> Now let me see my next step: Take over the world. Ok got it
<Unit193> Congrats cyrex! (got it right this time)
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
<cyrex> Man I am still shaken hehe
<nhandler> Yep. Thanks you everyone, and congratulations to the new members.
<cyrex> ;)
<pleia2> and before we all run off, we have three board members expiring next month, so while welcome to reapply, thanks to nhandler and dinda for their work on the board these past couple years :)
<nhandler> :)
<cyphermox> yup, thanks nhandler and dinda :)
<Pendulum> pleia2: thank you for your work over the past (4?) years as well!
<pleia2> Pendulum: indeed 4! too many :)
<cyrex> Well thank you I am going to tell my girlfriend
<cyrex> you all have a nice day/night
<pleia2> you too
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Apr 20 00:51:14 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-20-00.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-20-00.00.html
 * skaet waves
<roadmr> hello!
<skaet> :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Apr 20 15:00:32 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause and ask questions. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-04-20
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> We've started creating the release candidates,  and full testing has commenced.   Changes to the unseeded universe can continue to go in, but changes to seeded packages will need to be release critical ( basically blockers and not SRUable) at this point before they'll be accepted.    Please discuss on #ubuntu-release if you see any release blockers pop up during testing immediately.    Testing of the release candid
<skaet> ates is in progress, so we'll be trying to minimize the respins.
<skaet> .
<skaet> #ubuntu-release if questions, please.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Schedule is at:
<skaet>  #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> Key Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/24 - Unseeded Universe Final Freeze at 1200 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/04/26 - Release!!!
<skaet> .
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> We're also now using:  http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release
<skaet> to track the release.
<skaet> Lots of late incoming status changes now that we're working with Final Freeze,  and I haven't managed to get the paste ups ready.
<skaet> from the mail list.
<skaet> will try to get it added before end of meeting.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> [TOPIC] questions/comments from the weekly status, and about the state of the release in general?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: questions/comments from the weekly status, and about the state of the release in general?
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause and ask questions. :)
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> General question for all the teams:   Are there any release critical bugs that have not been brought to attention of release team?
<pitti> bug 985862 just came in
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985862 in ubufox (Ubuntu Precise) "Update the start page URL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985862
<pitti> fix being prepared
<skaet> Please think on that and prepare answers...
<pitti> (just adding to pad)
<skaet> thanks pitti,  was that the "o/" or the answer to my question?
<skaet> ..
<pitti> skaet: your question, o/ still pending
<skaet> :)
<skaet> pitti,  go,  while folk are checking and composing then.   Thanks!
<skaet> ..
<pitti> so, we still have a considerably sized http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cjwatson> maas is still in the queue and I've vaguely gathered that (a) it helps with some of the outstanding component-mismatches and (b) it just needs somebody to sit down and review it all; is now still a good time for that?  I think we've dropped the ball on that one slightly as the release team
<cjwatson> oh, sorry, misinterpreted pitti.  but I think we're asking about kind of the same thing anyway.
<pitti> I wanted to ask the server folks if horizon is going to stay seeded, and if so, if at least the python-coverage build dep cuodl be dropped?
<pitti> it seems non-essential
<skaet> arosales, Daviey ^
<pitti> cjwatson: maas is something different AFAICS
<pitti> but also needs sorting out indeed
<cjwatson> I can volunteer to do the review if it's still OK
<pitti> Daviey just returned and he said he'd look at it
<pitti> it's quite intrusive, and I didn't feel confident enough to yay/nay it
<arosales> pitti: I believe horizon will need to stay seeded. I'll have to check on the python-coverage dep with zul and adamg
<cjwatson> I'd certainly rather somebody who knows the code well take care of it, just as long as *somebody* does
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> +1
<skaet> pitti, arosales,  Daviey able to get to it for today's respin?  or are we looking and possibly having to require an additional one for server later?
<skaet> ..
<arosales> a good part of the server team is at ODS conference so we have a bit delayed in some of the work.
<skaet> arosales,  is there anyone else around, who isn't Daviey or the author) that could knowlegably review it now?
<skaet> ..
<arosales> skaet: for MAAS?
<Daviey> o/
<cjwatson> (I've just skimmed it and don't see any problems that are obvious to me.)
<skaet> Daviey.... :)  delighted to see you.
 * Daviey will take MAAS and follow up with horizon stuff today.
<Daviey> just.. not right now.
 * skaet hugs Daviey
<Daviey> skaet: I'm not delighted to see a computer :)
<skaet> Daviey,  ok,  we'll hold off on the respins today until we hear from you on this.
<skaet> thanks for that initial look cjwatson too.  :)
<skaet> ..
 * arosales thanks the release team for all the help with the late server landings
<arosales> ..
<skaet> cjwatson,  you're question again?
<cjwatson> handled
<skaet> coolio.
<skaet> Daviey,  any question indicated by your 'o/'?
<skaet> hmm..
<pitti> . o O { suggestion: \o for hello, o/ for questions :) }
<Daviey> no, just showing presence.. sorry
<skaet> :)
 * skaet likes pitti's suggestion.   Next release ;)
<skaet> ok,  going back to round tabling from each of the teams on release critical non SRUable fixes...?
<skaet> arosales - is there anything on your team's radar?
<Riddell> pitti: you're mixing three different styles of ascii art there, confuses my little brain!
<skaet> lol
<skaet> ..
<arosales> skaet: no release critical bugs that I am aware of.
<skaet> thanks arosales.
<skaet> cjwatson: ?
<ogasawara> skaet: none here for the kernel  that I'm aware of.  issues I'm currently tracking should be getting handled in our day-0
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> thanks ogasawara.  :)
<cjwatson> everything I know of has come up in #ubuntu-release, although as I said in my status update we do need to clear outdated binaries.
<cjwatson> I'm trawling through the relevant build failures at the moment ...
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson.  :)
<skaet> jibel:  anything showing up from the recent testing that might be suspect?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> roadmr or brendand:   from your team?
<skaet> ..
<roadmr> skaet: a bug that was subsequently fixed, so we're ok now :)
<skaet> roadmr,  thanks.  :)
<roadmr> skaet: it was bug 984387
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984387 in Linux "[Dell Studio XPS 1340,Alienware m17x] Kernel panic with 3.0.0-19 and 3.2.0-18 on boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984387
<skaet> :)  thanks for that.  ..?
<roadmr> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> mdeslaur,  anything known as potential to from security update between now and next Wednesday?
<skaet> ..
<jdstrand> skaet: I'm here for mdeslaur
 * skaet just wants to know if something is under investigation, or if the slate is pretty clear.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: don't you come in here :P
<skaet> thanks jdstrand.
<jdstrand> (he is on holiday)
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> skaet: nothing is planned
<skaet> thanks jdstrand.
<skaet> dbarth_, anything from your team?
<skaet> ..
 * jibel back
<skaet> go ahead jibel while we wait for dbarth_ ...
<skaet> anything showing up on radar that might end up as a blocker from recent tests?
<skaet> ..
<jibel> so I sent the list of defects found this week with testing
<jibel> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-April/001151.html
<dbarth_> skaet: hi, not much apart from the last 2 fixes that didrocks added to ubuntu5
<jibel> and found a bug with cdromupgrade from lucid
<jibel> bug 986233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 986233 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "lucid -> precise cdromupgrade failed without network connection" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986233
<jibel> that might be a blocker
<jibel> ..
<skaet> thanks jibel.   Yes,  it needs looking at.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> thanks dbarth,  ..?
<dbarth_> skaet: the rest we're targeting for an upcoming 5.12.0; the bamf issue with duplicated icons (#928912 )
<dbarth_> ..
<ogra_> o/
<skaet> heh, guess not.   Thanks!
<skaet> ogra_ go.
<ogra_> we found an issue with the GLES patch that i fixed today ... sadly there is an unuploaded fix in the tree so i couldnt just upload compiz right away
<ogra_> the gles fix sits in the compiz packaging tree now but i want to wait for didrocks (who is on vacation) to nod off the former fix 8else i had uploaded right now)
<ogra_> apparenly he is back on monday though...
<ogra_> the fix is tested and makes everything work fine now
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_ yeah, but given the arm build times, etc.  monday is getting pretty late.
<skaet> pitti,  who is didrock's backup on this sort of thing?
<pitti> there is no formal backup
<pitti> I'd suggest to just uplaod the patch, and adjust bzr accordingly
<pitti> i. e. push the unpublished change to the next version
<ogra_> pitti, not possible
<pitti> oh?
<pitti> well, I don't know anything else :)
<ogra_> the arch specific patch needs to sit on top of all other quilt patches sadly
<pitti> or do you depend on the previous patch?
<ogra_> i have to redo everything for the next quilt patch again
<pitti> that sounds like a hell of a patch
<cjwatson> branch from the last uploaded revision
<ogra_> right, since i cant be sure the GLES patch doesnt accidentially touch the same files other quilt patches touch
<cjwatson> then let whoever wants to upload the unuploaded bits worry about merging
 * skaet nods
<cjwatson> (if necessary)
<ogra_> cjwatson, that still means i need to completely regenerate everything right after the next quilt patch is added
<ogra_> it would only help until the next upload ...
<cjwatson> you can still prepare *this* upload, which is the time-sensitive one, as I understand it
<pitti> at this point this shoudl be offloaded to #u-devel or desktop, but why?
<ogra_> cjwatson, yes, but for the first (likely 0 day) SRU i have to start over
<ogra_> so it doesnt help much for the release if dider uploads to proposed next week and i have to do it again
<ogra_> ..
<pitti> patch dependencies and bzr handling seem very independent to me
<cjwatson> "start over" sounds like it must be hyperbole
<cjwatson> I'm prepared to believe you have to fiddle about to some extent with quilt
<cjwatson> but it surely isn't a matter of completely starting from scratch
<cjwatson> or shouldn't be
<ogra_> well, we have two trees, the gles patch has to be a diff between these two trees ... if one quilt patch is added to the packjaging tree, linaro has to first update their stuff, then i need to redo the diff between the trees and roll that into a new quilt patch ...
<ogra_> (thats not the time consuming part, due to the fragile nature of it we have to do testbuilds, tests etc, all in all thats half a workday of one linaro person and me)
<ogra_> ..
 * pitti still fails to see the connection to the unuploaded patch staged in bzr
 * skaet thinks we need to take this discussion to #ubuntu-release  and  move on here.
<ogra_> pitti, it touched the same files the gles patch touches, next upload with the unuploaded quilt patch makes arm builds ftbfs
<ogra_> ..
<cjwatson> so push and refresh
<cjwatson> (but yes, #u-r)
<skaet> Riddell,   any release critical issues lurking in the Kubuntu bugs?
<Riddell> I have a good feeling there are none
<skaet> :)
<Riddell> there was the KDM issue slangasek was tlaking about yeseterday
<Riddell> which was an issue with libc I think
<Riddell> I think he fixed it but haven't verified yet
<slangasek> mea culpa
<Riddell> I'm away until Monday evening
<skaet> is ScottK your backup?
<skaet> for questions?
<Riddell> he is a reliable chap for any breakages yes
<skaet> Riddell,  who should we be notifying to restart the kubuntu testing, when we respin?
<Riddell> ScottK is good to notify, he can pull the trigger on the kubuntu communnity
<Riddell> or a !testing ping in #kubuntu-devel
<skaet> Thanks.  :)   Will do.
 * skaet will do both then...
<skaet> :)
<skaet> s/do/try?/
<skaet> until response
<skaet> ..
<skaet> stgraber or highvoltage - any release critical issues lurking in the Edubuntu bugs?
<stgraber> nope, the worst bug we had so far was wallpapers not showing up in the gnome background dialog :)
<stgraber> and that's fixed
<highvoltage> yay
<skaet> :)
<skaet> ..?
<stgraber> so it looks pretty good so far, we have a few smaller bugs reported that I'll make sure we get fixed for 12.10 and possibly for 12.04.1
<highvoltage> ..
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> sounds good.   Thanks stgraber and highvoltage.  :)
<skaet> astraljava,  knome - any release critical issues lurking in the Xubuntu bugs?
<astraljava> skaet: Nothing from Xubuntu as we spe*... type.
<astraljava> Just got a hint of a weird networking issue, but can't specify yet how critical it turns out to be.
<astraljava> I will do some further testing over the weekend.
<astraljava> ..
<skaet> thanks astraljava.   Ok,  will circle back with you on monday.
<astraljava> Sounds good.
<astraljava> ..
<skaet> scott-work, any release critical issues lurking in the Ubuntu Studio bugs?
<scott-work> no, it is looking good at this time :)
<scott-work> ..
<skaet> :)  Thanks scott-work!
<skaet> gilir,  any release critical issues lurking in the Lubuntu bugs?
<gilir> no blocker so far, still testing and double checking install failure the team reported
<gilir> maybe one fix for our keyboard layout application, still need testing
<gilir> ..
<skaet> Thanks gilir,  ok,  please post in #ubuntu-release as soon as you know more on those.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyone I miss?
<tumbleweed> MOTU, but I don't have any issues I know of
<tumbleweed> laney is probably more on top of things...
<tumbleweed> ..
<skaet> gilir, scott-work, astraljava, highvoltage, stgraber, Riddell, ScottK - any issues with the new ReleaseNotes/* format?   can all the feature and config/install information be ready in it by monday?
<skaet> Thanks tumbleweed.  :)
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> I think Edubuntu is mostly good after highvoltage's edits from yesterday. I'll have another look this weekend.
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> Thanks stgraber. :)
<skaet> ..
 * gilir likes the new format, and it should be ok on monday for us
<gilir> ..
<tumbleweed> I have a more general question re the releasenotes format? Are we rolling in any notes from 10.10 -> 11.10? (e.g. the toolchain changes that someone asked about on the list this week). If we are, there doesn't seem to be anywhere in the new structure for toolchain changes
<tumbleweed> ..
<astraljava> skaet: I believe Xubuntu will have it ready by Monday, yes.
<astraljava> ..
<skaet> tumbleweed,  there's the common infrastructure part to hold that sort of thing.
<skaet> slangasek, ^^
<skaet> (its where the upstart and kernel changes are located).
<skaet> thanks astraljava :)
<tumbleweed> oh, I didn't see that was shared between all the sub-pages
<scott-work> skaet: not yet, i'm still digging through it though ;)
<skaet> fair nuf scott-work.   ping me if you have questions please.  :)
<slangasek> tumbleweed: ;)  I had removed the references to toolchain versions because I didn't believe it relevant for end-user-facing release notes; but I seem to be outnumbered
<skaet> :)
<tumbleweed> the people who complain probably won't have read the notes...
<skaet> if its in the notes,  we have a place to point to at least when the questions come up.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anyhow,  we're out of time now.
<skaet> please bring up any remaining questions in #ubuntu-release.
<skaet> Thank you to all of you and your teams for the excellent work that's been done so far on this release!
<skaet> I'm very much looking forward to the release getting announced next week,  and am thinking its going to be a great foundation for our new LTS.    Well done!
<skaet> Thank you for your participation in these weekly release meetings for Precise,  roadmr, jibel, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, arosales, fabo, pitti, dbarth_,ogra_,Riddell, stgraber, highvoltage, astraljava, scott-work, gilir, tumbleweed, Laney.    Next set will start after UDS-Q... name coming soon. ;)
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Apr 20 16:00:38 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-20-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-20-15.00.html
<stgraber> thanks
<pitti> thanks skaet
<arosales> skaet: thanks for chairing :-)
<jibel> thanks skaet
<astraljava> Thanks skaet, all!
<roadmr> whee! thanks!
<ogra_> thanks skaet
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-04-22
<Pomare> Hello
<Pomare> What is the largest ubuntu conference in the world?
<lifeless> the shadow knows
<Pomare> If i want to organize an international event here, who should I contact about this?
<lifeless> Pomare: I don't think you need to contact anyone, do you ?
<Pomare> lifeless maybe there is a project already in the making.
<lifeless> you could discuss it on one of the ubuntu lists (see lists.ubuntu.com) if you want to coordinate
<Pomare> thank you my friend
<lifeless> IME though, folk running conferences are well aware of other conferences already
<Pomare> Do you go to these conferences regularly?
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-15
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> hey
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 15 16:31:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> (none this week)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I have more requirements gathering, planning and communications of our plans to do
<jdstrand> I also have to finish up performance reviews
<jdstrand> there are a couple audits to finish
<jdstrand> and I will be working on two embargoed updates
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> you bet you are! :P
<sbeattie> hehe
<mdeslaur> and I only have two days...wednesday I'm on vacation
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: hehe :)
<mdeslaur> (on vac until the 29th
<mdeslaur> I'm currently writing a test script for haproxy, which I'll likely release this afternoon or tomorrow
<mdeslaur> and am working on an embargoed issue to hand off to one of the non-vacationing suckers
<mdeslaur> and, that's it from me.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> fyi, I forgot one-- hope to do install audits this week too
<sbeattie> ah cool
<sbeattie> I'm working on apparmor work items again this week.
<sbeattie> I'm continuing to write some example clients for confinement, wrote a couple of qml demos last week.
<sbeattie> will need to put some automation around them as well.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: could you stick those in a bzr tree somewhere?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: re automation, what are you thinking, for automatic testing?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, for automatic testing, as much as possible.
<sbeattie> drag-n-drop stuff may be harder to automate.
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: https://code.launchpad.net/~sbeattie/+junk/apparmor-examples
<jdstrand> sbeattie: cool-- though aiui, having automatic testing is not in scope for this month per se.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: ah! cool
<jdstrand> sbeattie: obviously we want it-- what are you thinking about in terms of scheduling that work?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: uhh, hadn't really decided on anything concrete for schedule.
<jdstrand> ok
<sbeattie> jdstrand: was expecting to coordinate that with you/the team
<jdstrand> sbeattie: basically my questons are coming from the palce of 'let's focus on what we said we would focus on, but if we have to adjust, let's talk about it'
<sbeattie> okay
<jdstrand> so yeah, talking later is fine
<sbeattie> anyway, that's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-1304-appisolation-dbus this week
<tyhicks> Still wrapping up the dbus parser tests item
<tyhicks> Last week while writing parser tests, I ran across some parser bugs
<tyhicks> Those are fixed now and I'm back to improving the tests
<tyhicks> then I'll move on to "dbus daemon - regression tests" and then to "dbus daemon, pass labeling info on messages so security context can be queried by recipient"
<tyhicks> eCryptfs prep work for the kernel merge window stole some time from me last week but that is now all done
<tyhicks> so my sole focus will be on aa work items this week
<sbeattie> tyhicks: did you push your tests anywhere?
 * jdstrand is happy to hear that we are finding and fixing bugs when writing our tests :)
<sbeattie> indeed!
<tyhicks> sbeattie: not yet, when I fully complete that work item the tests will live in the apparmor package of the dbus-dev ppa
<sbeattie> tyhicks: okay, just wondered if you wanted any feedback/review of them...
<tyhicks> I also did a lot of work (still pending upload) on fixing up the patches in the dbus-dev apparmor package so that the patches will be easier to send upstream
<tyhicks> sbeattie: I will want some feedback for sure. I'll send them to the list.
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<jjohansen> I'll be continuing to work on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-1304-appisolation-signals-ipc-ptrace
<jjohansen> Mostly it should be work around sockets (labeling, passing them, etc)
<jjohansen> I will also need to spend some time pushing some patches to the upstream security tree so they are there for when the merge window opens
<jdstrand> tyhicks: regarding upstreamifying-- is that DBus upstreaming, apparmor, kernel, or some combination?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: kernel - ecryptfs work
<tyhicks> jdstrand: apparmor
<jjohansen> tyhicks: oh?
<tyhicks> the patches against the apparmor package were piling up and it was going to be a pain to get them all in order and broken down for upstreaming
<jdstrand> tyhicks: as in, making them easily digestible for the list?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: exactly
<tyhicks> just a little tidying up before things got too ugly
<jjohansen> ah
<jdstrand> jjohansen: curious-- what are you snding to the upstream security tree?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: about the first 20 patches from the queue that have been reviewed. Its all the base code cleanups and bug fixes
<jdstrand> neat
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week
<sarnold> I'm finishing up curl publication today, and I'm liable to ask jdstrand if I can take one of his MIR audits
<sarnold> I'd like to get around to fixing up my juju charms, but that might take a back burner again to doing another update
<mdeslaur> sarnold: if you're up to a challenge, you can try and take the bouncycastle update
<jdstrand> sarnold: actually one is a MIR audit (ie, not security audit) and the other I'm putting in that category-- it is about the scopes privacy
<mdeslaur> sarnold: java backporting fun
<sarnold> mdeslaur: that -is- a challenge :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: actually, it might not be a bad idea to get some help there
<sarnold> .. with all the goodness of inexplicable crypto goo :)
<jdstrand> sarnold: but we'll talk later
<sarnold> cool :)
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn :)
<chrisccoulson> yoyoyo
<chrisccoulson> i got a flash update out last week
<chrisccoulson> also fixed an arm crash in chromium (waiting on testing feedback from the ufa guys, but it works here)
<chrisccoulson> fixed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=858670, which appeared in the ff20 update
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 858670 in Extension Compatibility "crash in uGlobalMenuObject::ShouldShowIcon with GlobalMenu on Ubuntu" [Critical,New]
<chrisccoulson> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=858782 also appeared, but i've no idea what is happening there. if any of you use google docs and can recreate it, please let me know ;)
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 858782 in Extension Compatibility "crash in uGlobalMenuDocListener::DoHandleMutations with GlobalMenu on Ubuntu" [Critical,New]
<chrisccoulson> did a bit more with chromium automated testing. discovered that gtest can already  produce junit formatted test results, which is a great help
<chrisccoulson> i'll hopefully be done with updates / chromium etc this week, so i can start on other things i'm meant to be looking at :)
<jdstrand> nice
<jdstrand> (junit)
<jdstrand> well all of it, but you know, that goes for everyone :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, unfortunately, i discovered it created junit results after i started writing code to parse the results and convert them ;)
<chrisccoulson> (like we're doing for firefox already)
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: did you have more?
<chrisccoulson> no, that's me done i think
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: (fyi, since you're last, you can say 'back to you jdstrand or something :)
<chrisccoulson> sure, no problem
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gpw.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jenkins-winstone.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/policycoreutils.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/spice-gtk.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openjpeg.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I have one for several of you
<jdstrand> based on what was said in this meeting, I have a good feeling about progress for the month
<jdstrand> however, if I look at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-security-ubuntu-13.04-month-6.html I have a less good feeling
<jdstrand> so, I guess, now that we are 2 weeks in to this month, how are the work items going? Are we 50% done? are there problems?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ^ we talked about this a bit last week, so afaik, we are slightly behind but aren't worried on our timeline for this month. is that accurate?
<jjohansen> yes
<jdstrand> jjohansen: (talking about your work items specifically)
<tyhicks> I'm not 50% done, but I also haven't been able to spend 100% of my time on the work items
<tyhicks> I will be able to for the remainder of the month
<tyhicks> and I'm confident that I can knock off all of my work items by then
<jdstrand> tyhicks: right..
<jdstrand> ah, ok
<jdstrand> sbeattie: how about you? ^
<sbeattie> sorry, I'm notorious for not updating my workitem entries.
<jdstrand> well, I was going to end with 'Please update your work items' :)
<sbeattie> heh
<sbeattie> but yeah, feeling pretty confident about where things are at.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: but in a less burndown chart way: are you on track for your work items for the month?
<tyhicks> forgetting to update the entries is better than not having any updates to make ;)
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes!! :)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: awesome
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> jjohansen, tyhicks, sbeattie: if you could update this month work items sometime today, that would be great
<sbeattie> okay
 * tyhicks nods
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 15 17:17:49 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-15-16.31.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-15-16.31.html
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<pitti> bonsoir
<stgraber> bonsoir pitti
<cjwatson> hi
<stgraber> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 15 20:00:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<stgraber> hey everyone, so from what I'm seeing on the ML, it's just the three of us tonight
<stgraber> we also appear to have an empty agenda
 * pitti hasn't caught up with the over-weekend mail flood yet, sorry
<pitti> oh, good
<stgraber> anyway, let's quickly go through the usual points, but I expect this to be a very short meeting
<stgraber> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action review
<cjwatson> TBH I didn't properly catch up on the last meeting to see if we got through all the outstanding business then
<cjwatson> I didn't see minutes on -devel-announce
<stgraber> unfortunately it doesn't look like soren got around to doing the post-meeting paperwork, so I'm assuming we didn't have any action
<cjwatson> If we did I guess we'll find out in two weeks? :)
<stgraber> IIRC we granted a MRE for xorg and discussed Mark's proposal some more
<stgraber> mdz was supposed to process the MRE and update the wiki, but IIRC he was waiting for the meeting minutes to link to them
<stgraber> so hopefully this is enough highlights for both of them to have this sorted out ;)
<stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<stgraber> I just did a quick scan, we had a few things but they were resolved by e-mail or were just notifications
<pitti> I can't see anything in my ML for TB
<stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Check up on community bugs
<stgraber> "
<stgraber> There are currently no open bugs.
<stgraber> "
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Select a chair for the next meeting
<stgraber> I think the next chair is cjwatson. However this will be during the client sprint, so we should probably make sure we don't have conflicting meetings
<pitti> stgraber: well, hopefully the sprint won't be tightly packed with meetings
<cjwatson> I think we can make a point of carving out time
<cjwatson> It's on our calendars so we should notice, right?
<stgraber> I don't think I have the TB meeting on my Canonical calendar, but I can fix that ;)
<cjwatson> I do, at least
<stgraber>  12.30-13.30 - Lunch
<stgraber> so the meeting will be during lunch
<stgraber> no risk of conflicts then ;)
 * cjwatson will pack military rations
<pitti> one hand typing, the other munching on a sandwich
<stgraber> sounds like a plan
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 15 20:10:20 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-15-20.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-15-20.00.html
<pitti> thanks; good night everyone!
<stgraber> pitti: good night!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-16
<rbasak> Hello all. yolanda was going to chair, but she and various others in the Canonical Server Team are at ODS this week. So I'm not sure if we're having a meeting today or not.
<arosales> hello
<arosales> rbasak, look like there is at least hallyn, utlemming , you, and myself here
<arosales> any other folks here for ubuntu-server meeting?
<hallyn> cancel?
<arosales> hallyn, perhaps a quick meeting since we are here
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 16 16:02:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> I am going to keep these items here to carry over, and confirm with smoser and zul on their items
 * arosales is still working on Norvald in regards to the SRU
<arosales> sorry I am working on contacting Norvald in regards to the SRU.
<arosales> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<marcoceppi> o/
<arosales> Final freeze this week (18th)
<arosales> marcoceppi, hello
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> hmm that didn't take
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> hmm ok
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<arosales> rbasak, any updates on the MySQL bugs?
<arosales> bug 1162139	
<ubottu> bug 1162139 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "mysql-5.5 still built using GCC-4.4, should be built with the default GCC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162139
<arosales> and bug 1121874
<ubottu> bug 1121874 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Raring) "MySQL launch fails silently if < 4MB of disk space is available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121874
<rbasak> I'm still working on it. But it looks like bug 1162139 may have to miss the release. There is no good answer that I've found yet. But I have made some progress. I'm hoping to cut out the assembly bits and use the native C only, and that may work.
<rbasak> I'll email the ubuntu-server list about it.
<rbasak> (once I've got some options)
<arosales> rbasak, sounds good - thanks
<arosales> rbasak, any pertinent updates on the latter?
<rbasak> No. I think that one may be OK for raring as long as I can find a sponsor in time.
<arosales> rbasak, ok
<arosales> rbasak, do you have the sponsor team subscribed to 1121874 ?
<rbasak> No - there's no patch right now
<arosales> rbasak, gotcha.  Thanks for the updates
<arosales> that others are maas and horizon, so we'll skip those for now
<arosales> s/that/the/
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
 * arosales looking for BPs for folks that are here
<arosales> we are in the red for the release right now, and given final freeze is this Thursday we should be looking at postponing, given all BPs are up to date.
<arosales> folks have any specific BPs to bring up?
<arosales> rbasak, thanks for updating apt-improvements
<arosales> hallyn servercloud-r-lxc looks good
<hallyn> \o/
<arosales> as does libvirt
<arosales> at least in progress :-)
<arosales> ok moving on
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> ah finally got the bot to accept my input :-)
<arosales> ODS this week :-)
<arosales> I believe Mark is giving a keynote tomorrow
<arosales> railsconf coming up on April 29th
<arosales> as is Cisco Open Source Conference
<arosales> #link https://juju.ubuntu.com/events/
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
<plars> hi
<arosales> plars, any updates?
<arosales> hello :-)
<plars> not too much today, jamespage was able to help me get the iscsi stuff figured out last week
<plars> thanks for that
<plars> it's looking fine now
<arosales> good to hear
<plars> I still need to sync up about the maas stuff
<plars> with utlemming iirc
<plars> I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week, have you utlemming?
<arosales> plars, cloud images for maas?
<plars> arosales: maybe I'm thinking of the wrong person, I don't have my notes in front of me about who was going to help with the maas bit
<utlemming> I don't follow...maas stuff?
<plars> we have some tests on iso tracker for maas, and when I tried to go through them, they don't make much sense to me
<arosales> plars, it may have been roaksoax
<plars> I don't have a lot of experience with maas
<plars> ah, yes, that sounds right :)
<plars> sorry utlemming
<arosales> plars, suggest to at least start with roaksoax, he should be able to redirect to the right person if he doesn't have the answer.
<plars> so I just need to sync up with roaksoax.. it's in my notes, just need to find the time to do it
<arosales> plars, ok thanks.  Any other updates?
<plars> I want to make sure the tests there actually work, and are sensible
<plars> that's it from me
<arosales> +1 on getting more testing on maas :-)
<arosales> thanks plars
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hi, I don't have anything. Are there any questions?
<arosales> no questions from myself
<arosales> smb, ok looks like no other question.  The kernel must be rock solid
<smb> or nobody using the bad parts
<arosales> smb, what bad parts :-)
<smb> we won't know until we find them. :)
<arosales> smb, thanks for joining
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions?
<arosales> rbasak, did you get mongodb running on ARM?
<rbasak> The test suite appears to pass. No change there. I don't plan to go any further unless somebody else finds a problem.
<arosales> rbasak, ok
<rbasak> (for Raring)
<arosales> rbasak, gotcha
<arosales> rbasak, thanks for the update.
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<arosales> I had one
<arosales> I was chatting with utlemming on getting more info on cloud images
<arosales> utlemming, do you think it would be valuable for the cloud folks to have you update on cloud images here on weekly updates, perhaps following rbask?
<utlemming> arosales: I think so. We have a bit going on
<utlemming> And I think there is some value in talking about it
<arosales> utlemming, ok I'll put an action to confirm with the larger team when they get back
<utlemming> ack
 * arosales doesn't see any issues though and thinks it is a good idea
<arosales> #action Confirmation on adding Cloud Image weekly udpate from utlemming
<meetingology> ACTION: Confirmation on adding Cloud Image weekly udpate from utlemming
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> wrong paste
<rbasak> arosales, utlemming: great idea, JFDI IMHO.
<arosales> Tuesday 2013-04-23 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> rbasak, well on rbasak JFDI I'll add it to the agenda and see if any folks object next week :-)
<rbasak> OK, great!
<arosales> utlemming, fyi on being pinged next week
<arosales> ok thats it
 * rbasak is looking forward to next week's cloud update :)
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 16 16:30:05 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-16-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-16-16.02.html
<arosales> thanks rbasak, utlemming, hallyn, marcoceppi, plars, smb,
<hallyn> \o
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 16 17:00:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> o/
<henrix> o/
<sconklin> o/
<kamal1> o/
<sforshee> o/
<cking> \o
<ogasawara> o/
<smb> \o
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: found a fix for lp1168039 ("highbank: network corruption") and
<ppisati> lp1166956 ("[highbank] Oops: PC is at pl330_irq_handler+0x21c/0x3b0 [pl330]"),
<ppisati> still working on the reboot issue on highbank (but i tracked it down to a pl310
<ppisati> errata).
<ppisati> R/nexus4: sent a config diff that made our nexus4 kernel work with the phablet
<ppisati> image.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<rtg> ppisati, will the highbank fixes make it today ?
<ppisati> rtg: nope, i wanted to send them all together when i've fixed the reboot issue too
<rtg> tomorrow is last upload before release
<rtg> ..
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review                     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review             || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || mobile-power-management                     || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || sforshee  || foundations-1303-phablet-kernel-maintenance || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items for the 13.04 cycle.  None
<ogasawara> are critical for the 13.04 release and some of the mobile/phablet
<ogasawara> related items will roll forward to 13.10.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are now in Kernel Freeze for 13.04.  All patches submitted must
<ogasawara> adhere to our SRU policy.  We do anticipate one more upload prior to
<ogasawara> final freeze (Thurs Apr 18).
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 18 - Final Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Apr 25 - Ubuntu 13.04 Final (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-04-16 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 64 CVEs on our radar, with 5 CVEs retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
<sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (Apr. 16):
<sconklin> *   Lucid - In Verification; (14 commits)
<sconklin> * Precise - In Verification; 2 upstream releases; (170 commits)
<sconklin> * Quantal - In Verification; 2 upstream releases; (225 commits)
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 16 17:05:43 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-16-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-16-17.00.html
<kamal1> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<sconklin> thanks
<rsalveti> that was a fast meeting
<czajkowski> dscassel: BobJonkman1 ello
<czajkowski> itnet7_: SergioMeneses ping
<SergioMeneses> hi everybody!
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, itnet7_ \o
<bregma> hello
<czajkowski> bregma: hey
<czajkowski> will give it another few mins otherwise we can take it to email as not sure we have enough council folks either.
<SergioMeneses> bregma, are you from ubuntu-ca?
<bregma> yes I am
<dscassel> Hi!
<dscassel> bregma's representing the LoCo today.  I've got to pay attention to my day job, unfortunately.
<czajkowski> dscassel: ahhh didnt know that
<dscassel> Delegation! Hurray! :)
<SergioMeneses> someone else from ubuntu-ca?
<SergioMeneses> dscassel, \o
<czajkowski> dscassel: bregma mind ig we take it to the bug as itnet7_ cant make it plus coolbhavi is in a bad timezone and we're down two members of the council also due to elections
<czajkowski> dscassel: I've added you to the bug
<czajkowski> dscassel: add who ever else you need to from your loco and we can follow up on that
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, we have to add bregma too
<czajkowski> is that ok ?
<czajkowski> bregma: what is your lp id
<bregma> ~bregma
<czajkowski> ok
<SergioMeneses> done
<czajkowski> bregma: dscassel sorry for the lack of notice we're in the middle of elections as well
<czajkowski> but we'll follow up off irc now
<czajkowski> Thanks
<dscassel> Me, bregma and BobJonkman1 (bjonkman on lp) should be sufficient for the bug.
<SergioMeneses> bregma, dscassel we can use the bug for the re-approval :D
<dscassel> That works for me...
<czajkowski> G'nite folks
<SergioMeneses> dscassel, ok, I've added to bjonkman
<dscassel> Later! Thanks. :)
<SergioMeneses> see you guys!
<bregma> thanks
<SergioMeneses> thanks for coming
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-17
<warren-hill> Hi
<freeflying> hi all
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> PING! beuno, cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat, head_victim, hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg, n0rman, Pendulum, PabloRubienes. Meeting time.
<jared> Hmmm that might need updating as well
<Pendulum> that definitely needs updating
 * cjohnston yawns
<Pendulum> Right, we have quorum so let's go :)
<Pendulum> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 17 12:06:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * Destine is here.
<Pendulum> Welcome to the April 17, 2013 12:00 Membership Board Meeting. When I call your name please introduce yourself including links to your launchpad and wiki pages.
<Pendulum> As a reminder, only board members may vote on applications, but people are welcome to cheer for applicants they support when that applicants application is being evaluated.
<Pendulum> #voters Pendulum, Destine, micahg, jared, freeflying
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum freeflying jared micahg
<Pendulum> Also, I'd like to welcome freeflying as one of the newest members of the membership board :)
<Pendulum> pietro98-albini: are you here?
<freeflying> Pendulum: thanks
<pietro98-albini> Pendulum, yes
<Pendulum> #topic Pietro Albini's Application for Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Pietro Albini's Application for Membership
<Pendulum> pietro98-albini: please introduce yourself :)
<pietro98-albini> Hello everybody, sorry for my bad english :)
<pietro98-albini> I'm Pietro Albini, a 14 years old italian boy
<pietro98-albini> I started to contribute to the Ubuntu community in may 2012, into the Italian LoCoTeam
<pietro98-albini> I manage the Ubuntu italian LoCoTeam website (http://www.ubuntu-it.org/) since may 2012
<pietro98-albini> I made a lot of pages in the website, and with new Ubuntu release I release new site brand
<pietro98-albini> I had the Ubuntu italian LoCoTeam membership since january, and since march I write for the LoCoTeam newsletter
<pietro98-albini> When I've some free time I triage some bugs (very few)
<jared> Thanks for the introduction, we're just reading over your application
<jared> Is there anyone here to cheer pietro98-albini ?
<pietro98-albini> jared, i don't finish yet
<pietro98-albini> :)
<jared> Sorry, please continue
<pietro98-albini> The italian LoCoTeam is going to launch a new support system (the italian version of askubuntu) and I help to realize it
<pietro98-albini> Probably I will admin or mod
<pietro98-albini> https://launchpad.net/~pietro98-albini
<pietro98-albini> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PietroAlbini
 * pietro98-albini finished
 * wickedpuppy claps , very good intro pietro98-albini  , well done!
<smartboyhw> Erm I always appreciate (or push) teenage contributors to get Ubuntu membership, and I think pietro98-albini deserves it:)
 * smartboyhw is same-aged as pietro98-albini after all.
<jared> pietro98-albini: you mention that most of your contributions are to your loco but launchpad shows you only joined in January this year, is that correct?
<smartboyhw> jared, um that's a bit different (if you look at Launchpad)
<pietro98-albini> jared, Ubuntu Italian LoCoTeam have two teams, ~ubuntu-it with all contributors, and ~ubuntu-it-members with members
<pietro98-albini> pietro98-albini, I entered in ~ubuntu-it when I entered in ~ubuntu-it-www, and I entered in ~ubuntu-it-members in january
 * pietro98-albini finished
 * pietro98-albini cannot use correctly quoting
<Pendulum> pietro98-albini: is there anyone around who could come cheer in support of you and how long you've been working other that the person who wrote your wiki testimonial?
<pietro98-albini> hallino1 ?
<jared> I just don't know what is involved in the other items you have listed on the wiki (other than the newsletter posts) and without more testimonials it's difficult to know how involved it is.
<warp10> I'd like to speak in favor of Pietro. I met him within the Italian LocoTeam, and despite his age I have been impressed by his skills. I definitely recommend Pietro for the membership
<micahg> warp10: can you speak to his level of contribution in the past before January?
<warp10> micahg: sure, I met him in person during the ubuntu-it meeting in october 2012 (and he was already active in the community)
<Pendulum> I think we're ready to vote
<almaidinajad> I'd like to speak in favor of Pietro, too. I work with him in the Italian team that is responsible for the website. He never stop of working and everytime I'm in trouble there he is. I reccomend Pietro for the membership.
<Pendulum> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Pendulum> +0 I'd really like to see you come back in a couple months with more testimonials for how long you've been contributing.
<jared> +0 I would like to see more detail about the sustained contributions to the Italian Loco website. I'm unable to see much activity earlier than January and there is very little detail in the small number of testimonials.
<Destine> +0 more testimonials would be better.
<freeflying> +0 if coming with more testimonials would make the application more persuasive
<micahg> +0
<Pendulum> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<jared> pietro98-albini: I don't think we're saying you haven't contributed but it's hard for us to determine with the application as it currently is. If you'd like to hang around after the meeting we can provide more specific pointers but essentially, we need to be able to easily identify significant and sustained contributions.
<Pendulum> next applicant. warren-hill are you around?
<warren-hill> Here: launchpad https://launchpad.net/~warren-hill, Wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Warren-Hill
<warren-hill> I'm a design engineer. I develop embedded systems
<Pendulum> #topic Warren Hill's application for Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Warren Hill's application for Membership
<warren-hill> I'm mainly active on the Luaunchpad Ubuntu Answers site and I have found and confirmed a few bugs, but can be found on AskUbuntu, and occasionally Ubuntu forums too.
<warren-hill> In Launchpad I'm currently 11th for karma on Ubuntu overall and 3rd for answers
<warren-hill> More rarely I'm here in #ubuntu trying to help out.
<warren-hill> What else do you want to know?
<jared> warren-hill: we'll just read over and ask some questions :) Good work on the multiple testimonials from existing community members btw.
<warren-hill> thanks
<jared> warren-hill: so your design engineering I assume is not for Canonical?
<warren-hill> No I develop electronic test equipment.  Some Linux based but most no OS
<jared> warren-hill: no worries, just checking. I know they work on that stuff to a degree.
<warren-hill> If interested this is the sort of equipment I work on
<warren-hill> http://www.tti-test.com/products-tti/psu-main.htm
<wickedpuppy> can I ask what programming language is used? Assembly?
<wickedpuppy> C?
<warren-hill> A mix of ARM assembly and C mainly, but some DSP assembly too
<freeflying> warren-hill: why are you on the no-canonical team? just curious :)
<warren-hill> you mean not canonical? Just because in the past some people have assumed I am a Conanical employee on Launchpad
<freeflying> warren-hill: ic, thanks
<jared> warren-hill: I've had a browse through your answers and read the testimonials, thanks for that.
<jared> warren-hill: on a side note, how do you find the state of LP answers these days?
<warren-hill> Generally OK why
<jared> warren-hill: just curious, there were those who thought it declined a little when askubuntu came around, etc.
<warren-hill> You get some poor questions but then many people are new.  AskUbuntu can be intimidating to some users as they can get told there is already an answer when they need more hand holding
<Pendulum> Okay, I think we're ready to vote
<warren-hill> My AskUbuntu page is here http://askubuntu.com/users/107450/warren-hill
<Pendulum> #vote Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
<meetingology> Please vote on: Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Pendulum> +1 keep up the good work!
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work! received from Pendulum
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<freeflying> +1 please keep the great job :)
<meetingology> +1 please keep the great job :) received from freeflying
<jared> +1 Good testimonials, keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 Good testimonials, keep up the good work received from jared
<Pendulum> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Voting on Membership for Warren Hill
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Pendulum> warren-hill: congratulations and welcome!
<warren-hill> thank you
<Pendulum> #topic Billy Aung Myint's application for membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Billy Aung Myint's application for membership
<wickedpuppy> thats me
<Pendulum> wickedpuppy: Please introduce yourself :)
<wickedpuppy> let me intro . thanks Pendulum
<wickedpuppy> Hi everyone , I am 30 years old male in Singapore
<wickedpuppy> I started using Ubuntu in late 2005 ,
<wickedpuppy> https://launchpad.net/~wickedpuppy
<wickedpuppy> I am one of the initiators of Ubuntu-SG loco team and administrator of the team @ launchpad
<wickedpuppy> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sg-team/+members#active
<wickedpuppy> I am also irc admin for #ubuntu-sg ( /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-sg list )
<wickedpuppy> I am also moderator for Ubuntu-SG loco subforum on ubuntuforums.org
<wickedpuppy> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=433
<wickedpuppy> I am also mailing list administrator
<wickedpuppy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-sg
<wickedpuppy> I am also the facebook page administrator
<wickedpuppy> https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntu.sg/
<wickedpuppy> you can see me there
<wickedpuppy> I am also the web and domain administrator of ubuntu.sg
<jared> Similar to the first applicant at the meeting, I'm struggled to be able to determine the significant and sustained contributions required to be a member. It's not that you haven't possibly done that but there isn't enough information available for me to draw that conclusion.
<wickedpuppy> Sorry but being administrator and maintainer for local community isn't contributing enough?
<jared> wickedpuppy: depends on the local community, if you can get some of the members to provide information on your contributions and length that would be the sort of thing I'd be looking for.
<wickedpuppy> jared: we only have less than 200 members
<wickedpuppy> only one ubuntu member , hyperair
<wickedpuppy> we nearly died
<wickedpuppy> we have just revived recently and are trying to get more members to the team
<jared> wickedpuppy: I'm not suggestion they all need to :) Just with loco contributions it's really hard to guage involvement without some testimonials
<wickedpuppy> I agreed. after all I could be hiding in the basement after registering the group
<Pendulum> THey also don't need to be from ubuntu members. It helps if they're ubuntu members, but we do consider all testimonials.
<wickedpuppy> then I think my chance are essentially 0. everyone would be too busy to come to irc even
<jared> wickedpuppy: hyperair wouldn't be able to add a quick note to your wiki page?
<hyperair> ohai.
<jared> A couple of the others wouldn't be able to do the same?
 * wickedpuppy spanks hyperair 
<wickedpuppy> say something
<hyperair> er
<Pendulum> Testimonials don't need to be in English, btw.
<jared> Gday hyperair , we're trying to ascertain wickedpuppy's contributions for Ubuntu Membership
<wickedpuppy> lol .. something like wo ai ni :P
<jared> They currently have no testimonials so I was saying it's hard to guage significant and sustained contributions to a loco without some sort of testimonial
<hyperair> Pendulum: yeah well, i don't speak any other language as good.
<warren-hill> They should not need to come on irc. Take a look at my wiki page can't you get a few users who know you to say similarly complementary things?
<hyperair> well, what can i say, when i came to singapore, wickedpuppy was the ubuntu-sg team leader
<Pendulum> hyperair: I menat that more in general about testimonials :)
<hyperair> he led us for the SFD preparations since 2008
<wickedpuppy> warren-hill: if they have wiki page account i would be very surprised ... Singapore team has less than 200 members in facebook and less than 20 active members
<hyperair> wickedpuppy: well standard operating procedure for applying for membership -> wikipage writeup with testimonials.
<wickedpuppy> hyperair: i know .. but you also know that would mean asking people to register for accounts
 * hyperair went through it for my MOTU application as well.
<jared> wickedpuppy: they can also send emails to the membership board if they would prefer
<hyperair> yeah well, can't be helped.
<Pendulum> Also, if any of them want to continue to contribute long enough to become members themselves, they'll need the wiki account eventually.
<jared> wickedpuppy: or, if you have write ups of the SFD events you organised, providing links to those on your wiki page. Along with other links of events that you've helped organise, run, attended, etc
<wickedpuppy> Pendulum: they are not interested
<wickedpuppy> We just had a meetup with Jouni Helminen
<wickedpuppy> one of the lead designers of Ubuntu Touch
<wickedpuppy> guess how many came?
<wickedpuppy> less than 30
<wickedpuppy> and mostly none ubuntu-sg members
<jared> wickedpuppy: it's not the number that's important. It's the effort involved. I have had less than 20 attend release parties myself.
<wickedpuppy> that is on facebook
<wickedpuppy> jared: we havn't have any release parties for ... actually we never had
<hyperair> we had once
<wickedpuppy> once?
<hyperair> many years ago
<hyperair> chew hosted it
<wickedpuppy> ah
<hyperair> you were there...
<hyperair> wait, were you?
<hyperair> i remember heidir
<wickedpuppy> no idea
<hyperair> okay if you don't remember then you probably weren't there.
<wickedpuppy> yah
<hyperair> we also had an ubuntu-sg release party at NTU under the NTUOSS
<jared> wickedpuppy: I'm just using that as an example though. I'm just saying it's difficult for use to gauge the required significant and sustained contributions when there is just a description of what you've done.
<wickedpuppy> jared: I understand. I am not saying its unfair. I am just saying it would be almost impossible.
<wickedpuppy> well I think in that case the conclusion seems to be foregone. Perhaps I will try again future
<wickedpuppy> Pendulum: pls
<warren-hill> There may be another option testimonials can be e-mailed to: ubuntu-membership-boards@lists.ubuntu.com  according to this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership.  So users don't need a Wiki page to let the board know how good you are
<warren-hill> but they still need testimonials
<hyperair> i think we need some of the older members to come out and talk about wickedpuppy.
<Pendulum> wickedpuppy: we'd like to see you come back with more testimonials and more links to show what you've done. I'd suggest talking to hyperair since he's been through the process.
<jared> hyperair: even some links to recent events/efforts/etc
<wickedpuppy> Pendulum: thanks
<wickedpuppy> jared: Thanks too!
<Pendulum> we really do want you to come back when you have more info for us. We just don't have enough as is to make a decision :)
 * hyperair was pretty new to the team -- we only met less than 10 times before the team more or less died out.
<hyperair> then we came back once a year for software freedom day
<hyperair> but last year the SFD committee disappeared
<Pendulum> Okay, we're over time so I'm going to end the meeting.
<Pendulum> Thank you everyone for coming
<Pendulum> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 17 13:14:48 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-12.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-12.06.html
<ActionParsnip> warren-hill: congrats dude
 * wickedpuppy congrats warren-hill too
<smartboyhw> warren-hill, congrats:)
<warren-hill> thanks
<jared> wickedpuppy: sorry we couldn't approve but we need to be able to see significant and sustained contributions as per the application information. I'd recommend trying to find links of events or other contributions and adding it to your page as well as trying to get a few people to give you a testimonial (via wiki or email).
<wickedpuppy> jared: i don't know how to say ,
<wickedpuppy> the last time there was some kind of event was in 2009
<wickedpuppy> then the team sort of died
<wickedpuppy> so all the info are lost
<wickedpuppy> the only thing I left is the domain
<wickedpuppy> and I had to ask every council for my accounts back
<wickedpuppy> irc , ubuntuforum , so on
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, the problem I think is tie *sustainable* thing
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, when did it revive?
<wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: with 5 min population with half of them foreigners , including me , substaining anything in Singapore is hopeless
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, eh. Maybe you should go for other contributions in the Ubuntu community....
<wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: this year , some people email me saying there is activity
<wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: and risk losing the team if the admins are lost again?
<wickedpuppy> Nick was lost
<wickedpuppy> he was the team owner on launchpad , we had to ask the council to add back our active members as admin
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, council = LoCo Council. Right?
<wickedpuppy> yah
<wickedpuppy> same for irc admin account
<wickedpuppy> basically the only thing left was the domain ubuntu.sg
<wickedpuppy> I kept registering and mailing list
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, I'm an idiot in LoCo business (indeed, I never joined my LoCo in HK or the LUG or the Open Source community)
<smartboyhw> It will be hard to sustain a team
<smartboyhw> Especially when your country or region is small.
<wickedpuppy> HK still got locals
<wickedpuppy> Singapore is hard to find one
<wickedpuppy> I think we both know
<czajkowski> wickedpuppy: if you want the loco council can help, drop us a line or me and I can follow up later on
<czajkowski> currently in the middle of work but will gladly help in any way we can
<wickedpuppy> czajkowski: We got all the admins back thanks to every councils there is
<wickedpuppy> irc too .. it was you right? tm_t too
<wickedpuppy> anyways it was a great experience and everyone really was great
<wickedpuppy> no regret. At least I tried.
<wickedpuppy> much harder part is trying to find the agenda for next meetup for ubuntu-sg
<smartboyhw> wickedpuppy, I really suggest you to try to advocate Ubuntu first:)
<wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: nearly 8 years isn't enough?
<wickedpuppy> smartboyhw: to put into perspective , LUGS ( Linux User Group of Singapore ) founded in 1994 by Red Hat country manager , was never more than 1000 members strong.
<wickedpuppy> I know because I was their executive committee member too ... a long time back
<wickedpuppy> thats the biggest Linux group in Singapore
<wickedpuppy> its hard to pull people in
<wickedpuppy> one reason is Singapore works long hours
<wickedpuppy> My day starts at 6:45 am till 8 pm
<wickedpuppy> in fact I was having dinner while the first person was doing intro
<wickedpuppy> and I am on 24/7 standby .. which is pretty standard for sg
<wickedpuppy> eh ah just to brag about how long I usually work , here is a article http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/asia/singapore/2010/01/12/240437/Survey-finds.htm
 * wickedpuppy stop ranting ... sorry!!!
<jared> wickedpuppy: no worries at all, (it's midnight here and I'm still studying for my assessment after starting work at 8am).
<wickedpuppy> jared: then high 5
<wickedpuppy> I just finished my part-time degree final exam last night
<wickedpuppy> thankfully i won't have go back to school
<wickedpuppy> and hopefully will get a better job
<jared> wickedpuppy: nice work, I'm 10 modules into a 24 module master's degree so heaps more school for me.
<wickedpuppy> so much modules? not MBA?
<jared> Yeah, MBA
<wickedpuppy> MBA with so many modules ... 1 year MBA ?
<jared> No, 2 subjects at a time it's 2 years, 1 at a time it's 4
<jared> They modules are 2 months each.
<wickedpuppy> no kidding ... so long.
<jared> Yep and all for 3 little letters at the end of your name :P
<wickedpuppy> LOL... no not lol , MBA
<wickedpuppy> so many things to do , so little time
 * slangasek waves
<stokachu> (>';')> <(';'<) <( ';' )>
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<doko> ?
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 17 15:01:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> xnox stokachu doko bdmurray stgraber jodh ev barry slangasek ogra cjwatson
 * xnox win.
<xnox> * commited symbols tracking for C++ touch stack for daily landing
<xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/platform-api/hybris-symbols/+merge/158878
<xnox>   https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/qtubuntu-sensors/symbols/+merge/158884
<xnox>   dpkg-gensymbols "(c++)" tag is awesome
<xnox> * Fully build pyqt4 against qt5 in a PPA:
<xnox>   Now needs a strategy for packages naming & coinstallability with
<xnox>   pyqt4 build against qt4. Both use same namespace.
<xnox> * Forwarded ubuntu-one ubiquity plugin screenshots to design for
<xnox>   review (as per request from john lea)
<xnox> * utah ISO image static validations fixes:
<xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/utah/test-server-squashfs
<xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/utah/wubi-is-in-raring
<xnox>   - merged lp:~xnox/qa-regression-testing/sb-make-pem-certs-1
<xnox>   - Figured out with jdstrand how to verify linux-signed-image
<xnox>   signatures, still todo write the utah checks for it. At the moment
<xnox>   have a branch that shim & grub efi boot images are present, that GPT
<xnox>   partition table exists & uefi boot images are present.
<xnox>   - lp:~xnox/ubuntu-test-cases/desktop merged & setup to automatically
<xnox>   test LVM2 daily desktop installs in jenkins
<xnox> * openssl sru re-published
<xnox> * Wrote a dh_acc addon to generate & compare api/abi library dumps
<xnox>   using abi-compliance-checker. Contacted tedg for early testing &
<xnox>   debian maintainers to include it in debian packaging.
<xnox> * Merged wubi merge-proposals, planning to test quickly proposed changes in a VM.
<xnox> ..
<xnox> s/have a branch that/have a branch that checks/
<stokachu> - no bugs on fire this week
<stokachu> - looking for sponsor =) on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=705192
<stokachu> - setup test ppa for OP on bug 1169740, waiting on feedback before posting SRU
<stokachu> - i think bug 1094496 was somewhat verified but curious if I should wait for tester to re-test at their work environment where memory leak was seen. (re: #15)
<stokachu> (done)
<ubottu> Debian bug 705192 in sponsorship-requests "RFS: sosreport/2.3+git20130416-1 ITP" [Wishlist,Open]
<ubottu> bug 1169740 in rsyslog (Ubuntu Raring) "rsyslog hangs loading modules" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169740
<ubottu> bug 1094496 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "gnome-keyring-daemon leaks memory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094496
 * xnox also helped with a bug around pre-seeding grub-installer...
<doko> - GCC 4.6.4 and 4.7.3 releases, backports to precise and lucid (well lucid wasn'
<doko> t necessary)
<doko> - autopkgtests for python2.7 and python3.3. submit upstream issues about tests f
<doko> ailing in the installed test environment
<doko> - icedtea-web update
<doko> - buildd watch ... test rebuild is now finished after 16 days
<doko> - fix some more build failures
<doko> - look into build failures with updated ecj, fixed openjdk so far. don't think t
<doko> hat I can fix the other three ones
<doko> (done)
<doko> and starting with openjdk security updates again ...
<bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity / upgrade bugs
<bdmurray> escalation regarding th mirror - bug 1168299
<bdmurray> searched for duplicates of bug 1163142
<bdmurray> retested bug 1160441
<bdmurray> research into bug 1058884
<ubottu> bug 1168299 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Can't upgrade to raring: libvisio download fails with Forbidden" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168299
<ubottu> bug 1163142 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Hangs when "preconfiguring packages" at the installation of a language" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163142
<ubottu> bug 1160441 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Calendar is still in English despite French is selected as the Language during the installation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160441
<ubottu> bug 1058884 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with EOFError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: EOF read where not expected" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for release upgrader bug 1166346
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for apport bug 1168126
<bdmurray> setup error tracker in canonistack again
<bdmurray> merge proposal for an errors api call for srcversionbuckets
<bdmurray> worked on a branch to backfill the srcversionbuckets column family
<ubottu> bug 1166346 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade 12.04 to 12.10 gives fatal error" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166346
<ubottu> bug 1168126 in apport (Ubuntu) "ubiquity package hook sends too many bugs to grub-installer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168126
<bdmurray> code reviews for evan
<bdmurray> SRU review of python-gnutls for P and Q
<bdmurray> modified SRU report to show removal candidates
<bdmurray> research into update-notifier's reboot notification and derivatives using update-notifier's tray applet
<bdmurray> â done
<ev> thanks for the reviews
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #1094496> that's not a complete verification, the commenter hasn't confirmed the lack of leak in an environment where the leak is proven to happen
<ubottu> bug 1094496 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu Precise) "gnome-keyring-daemon leaks memory" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094496
<barry> bdmurray: yeah, i still can't wrap my head around what's causing bug 1058884
<ubottu> bug 1058884 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with EOFError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: EOF read where not expected" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<stokachu> slangasek: ok ill ping Hein again and see if they've had a chance to do so
<slangasek> (commented on the bug)
<stokachu> slangasek: ah you're fast
<bdmurray> barry: I'd mentioned including or saving dmesg from the upgrade process, what do you think?
<slangasek> bdmurray: so you retested bug #1160441 and it's "triaged", I guess that means the bug still exists after testing?
<ubottu> bug 1160441 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Calendar is still in English despite French is selected as the Language during the installation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160441
<barry> bdmurray: i guess my main question is: if this is a reading-pyc-file race condition, then what other processes are running at the same time?
<bdmurray> slangasek: correct
<slangasek> jodh: ah, you're up, no stgraber today
<barry> bdmurray: do you think the dmesg output would tell us that?
<jodh> * blueprints:
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - Updated lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/python-upstart-module as results
<jodh>       of barrys excellent review (awaiting feedback from any of the devs).
<jodh> * boot:
<jodh>   - upstart:
<jodh>     - bug 1157713: fixed and raised MP on
<ubottu> bug 1157713 in upstart "upstart tests which run without inotify fail occasionally" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157713
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1157713-inotify-test-failures
<jodh>       (awaiting feedback).
<jodh>     - bug 1124384: continued investigations.
<ubottu> bug 1124384 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "reload-configuration can confuse upstart" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124384
<jodh> Î»
<bdmurray> barry: no, I was thinking that'd be useful for hardware issues
<ev> Go get a â, this is going to be a long one.
<barry> bdmurray: it's probably a good idea then, if nothing else, to rule h/w issues out
<barry> ev: ping me when you're done. :)
<ev> - Verified that we successfully back-populated the FirstError and ErrorsByDate
<ev>   data for bug 1077122 in:
<ev>   http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60205
<ev> - Made a first pass at weighting the average errors per calendar day (jsfiddle
<ev>   is wonderful, by the way):
<ev>   http://jsfiddle.net/Ra4xT/1/
<ev>   http://paste.ubuntu.com/5697852/
<ubottu> bug 1077122 in Errors "Machine weighted at 100% 89 days after last report, 0% 90 days after" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077122
<ev> - Code review for Brian:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/errors/newbuckets/+merge/158244
<ev> - Followed up on the backfill of SourceVersionBuckets CF for Brian:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60732
<ev> - Bug fixes for https://errors.ubuntu.com:
<ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1167849
<ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1167865
<ev> - Meeting with Katherine to develop an NDA for https://errors.ubuntu.com
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1167849 in Errors "crash-signatures-for-bug does not work" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<xnox> slangasek: bdmurray: i'm not sure, but i thought that we select locale based on the location, instead of installer language, but I might be wrong here. Also we had a similar bug with respect to country mirror selection (that one was done based on language instead of location) which is now tested for automatically on daily images.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1167865 in Errors "Nonexistent buckets raise an exception" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ev> - Drafted guidelines for use and rules for approval for accessing the error
<ev>   reports:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/Guidelines
<ev> Friday:
<ev> - Refactoring crash submission process as I build out the test suite and fix
<ev>   support for kernel OOPS crashes:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/daisy/refactor-submission/+merge/158566
<ev> - RT for hash-based bucket URLs:
<ev>   https://portal.admin.canonical.com/60762
<ev> - Looking at how we can better handle timeouts when writing reports to
<ev>   Cassandra. Conversed with Tom about it and moved to a consistent 30 second
<ev>   timeout. Beyond that, we've got bigger problems.
<ev> - Testing refinements to the FirstError and ErrorsByRelease script.
<ev> - Worked with webops to get some retracers processing the failed queue:
<ev>   https://graphite.engineering.canonical.com/render/?width=1129&height=614&_salt=1365757153.811&target=daisy_servers.rabbitmq.messages.failed_retrace_amd64
<ev> Monday:
<ev> - Testing the fix for weighted average errors per calendar day is taking ages
<ev>   (as of writing it timed out after processing 12.9 million reports of some 43
<ev>   million, having run over the weekend), so I'm running the new totals with
<ev>   what we have so far, since the denominator for the calculation is being
<ev>   updated in the same process.
<ev>   - Still not working properly ('Precise (again)'):
<ev>     http://jsfiddle.net/Ra4xT/4/
<ev> - Hash-based URLs for buckets on errors.ubuntu.com (RT 60762) deployed and
<ev>   verified.
<ev> - Updated errors.ubuntu.com to use the new hash-based URLs:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/errors/bucket-short-urls/+merge/158911
<ev> - (Finally) finished up the code to rebuild the metadata about what Ubuntu
<ev>   releases and binary package versions have been seen for each problem:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/oops-repository/bucket-versions/+merge/158946
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/daisy/bucket-versions/+merge/158948
<ev> - Helping Jane diagnose a Intel graphics / apport issue.
<ev> - Investigating Disco (http://discoproject.org/) as a possible alternative to
<ev>   Hadoop.
<ev> - Fighting Canonistack, as per usual (out of security groups on lcy01):
<ev>   https://eu1.salesforce.com/500D000000OTnPi
<ev>   - James pointed me to the fact that juju doesn't delete security groups when
<ev>     its done with them. So if you see this message, euca-describe-groups &&
<ev>     euca-delete-group.
<ev> - Catch up with James:
<ev>   - Where we stand with the prodstack deployment: He's waiting until after
<ev>     release to move Cassandra in as they're short on resource and it will be
<ev>     the first big test of Ceph for them.
<ev>   - Started to build out Hadoop to benchmark it against get_range() in pycassa
<ev>     (given the multi-day queries listed above), but James and I did a quick
<ev>     code review and identified some low hanging fruit to try first. He's also
<ev>     keen on waiting until we deploy to prodstack after release before setting
<ev>     off on benchmarking Hadoop, as he thinks it'll be far more interesting to
<ev>     test the live performance characteristics and not canonistack getting
<ev>     massively contented halfway through a benchmark.
<ev> Tuesday:
<ev> - Debugging and fixing bugs in the retracers for webops:
<ev>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1169486
<ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60844
<ev> - Trying to write up some best practices / investigative work for writing large
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1169486 in Daisy "Unicode exception when inserting StacktraceAddressSignature during retrace" [Undecided,Fix released]
<ev>   Cassandra queries:
<ev> - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/CassandraQueries
<ev> - Code review for Brian:
<ev>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/daisy/build-sourceversionbuckets/+merge/159006
<ev> - Writing a unit test for the weighting of error reports since A) TDD, bro and
<ev>   B) with the processing of 45 million error reports taking at least 10 hours,
<ev>   isn't not exactly quick to test small changes to the way we weight the errors
<ev>   on production.
<ev> - Reviewing the draft NDA for errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> Wednesday:
<ev> - Ongoing discussion on the draft NDA for errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> - Writing up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/DailyTasks
<ev> - Deployed refactoring of error report submission to production (RT 60876).
<ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60876
<ev> - Deployed hashed-based bucket URL support to production (RT 60877).
<ev>   - http://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=60877
<ev> - More work on the unit test for the weighting of errors. Refactoring as I go
<ev>   to allow testing of all parts of this (submission, getting unique system
<ev>   counts, and weighting).
<ev> Outstanding RTs:
<ev>  - Retracers failing inside apport-retrace due to http_proxy.
<ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=60751
<ev>    - We've fixed the issue and are processing all the errors that went into the
<ev>      failed queue. This looks like it will take the rest of the month, unless
<ev>      we get some prodstack-based retracers up and running soon:
<ev>      https://graphite.engineering.canonical.com/render/?width=1129&height=614&_salt=1366017649.536&from=-14days&target=daisy_servers.rabbitmq.messages.failed_retrace_amd64
<ev>  - Migrate cassandra nodes into prodstack
<ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=60652
<ev>    - See chat with James above. Blocked by the 13.04 release.
<ev>  - Hadoop for daisy.ubuntu.com
<ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=55518
<ev>    - Blocked on the build-out of a secondary Cassandra cluster on prodstack, as
<ev>      above.
<ev>      - This arrangement is common practice, as running intensive Hadoop queries
<ev>        will potentially have an impact on performance.
<ev>  - Lets move the retracers onto prodstack
<ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58019
<ev>    - The priority on this has been increased, but it's still waiting for a
<ev>      webop with spare time, according to Liam.
<ev>  - Setup stagingstack environment for errors.ubuntu.com
<ev>    - https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=58535
<ev>    - This is partially waiting on me creating nrpe hooks, but according to Liam
<ev>      there are a few webops tasks that still need to be done.
<ev> Blocked:
<ev>  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1167415
<ev>    - I haven't heard anything on this. I'll follow up at not-UDS.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1167415 in touch-preview-images "android kernel ignores /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern" [Undecided,New]
<ev> barry: done! :)
<barry> ev: thanks! :)
<slangasek> xnox: it might make sense to treat LC_TIME the same as LC_MESSAGES, given that it involves string translation?  cjwatson?
<barry> bug 1102593. bug 1058884. bug 1078697 (awaiting sru approval for precise; landed in raring and lucid-cat). reviewed lcx c extension module for stgraber.  worked on click packages and chatted w/stgraber re: full image updates.  looked at/worked on various upstream python bugs affecting ubuntu (issue17712 - test_gdb failures; issue17759 - test_urllibnet failures; issue17012 - shutil.which() bug).  trying to squeeze in ffes for
<barry> python-virtualenv 1.9.1 and pip 1.3.1 into raring (ssl downloads from pypi ftw).  done.  todo: ota image updates.
<ubottu> bug 1102593 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with UnboundLocalError in doDistUpgradeFetching(): local variable 'e' referenced before assignment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102593
<ubottu> bug 1058884 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with EOFError in /usr/lib/ubuntu-release-upgrader/check-new-release: EOF read where not expected" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<ubottu> bug 1078697 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu archive is missing SHA-1/SHA-256 hashes for some packages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078697
<cjwatson> slangasek: Yeah, I was thinking something like that but hadn't gone off to analyse it yet.  It's unfortunate since LC_TIME kind of straddles the boundary here
<barry> btw, the fix for bug 1078697 has been accepted into lucid-cat and should land on lp next wednesday i'm told
<ubottu> bug 1078697 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubuntu archive is missing SHA-1/SHA-256 hashes for some packages" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078697
<barry> done
<cjwatson> shutil.which> oh, cute
<cjwatson> 'bout time
<barry> cjwatson: indeed.  it had a nice little bug triggered by your use case, now fixed upstream :)
<cjwatson> I've had a version of that in the osextras module I carry bits of around everywhere for ages
<cjwatson> (Also, holy adverb stacking Batman)
<slangasek> ev: on bug #1167415, it might be worth adding more detail on which device you're testing on (since the kernel may vary across devices within Android), and also if it's on a device that we have an Ubuntu image supported on (like Nexus7 desktop preinstalled), to cross-check there?
<ubottu> bug 1167415 in touch-preview-images "android kernel ignores /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167415
<barry> cjwatson: fwiw, the py3.3 implementation is not far from yours :)
<ev> slangasek: will do
<cjwatson> Heh
<cjwatson> I seem to do this a lot - the current /usr/bin/which is a descendant of my code too
<doko> barry, cjwatson: should 17012 be included in raring?
<barry> doko: would be great if it were
<slangasek> well, my report's real short this week
<slangasek>  * driving the release checklist this week
<slangasek>  * planning for the Oakland sprint
<slangasek> (done)
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * nearly finished the livecd-rootfs implementation which is now dropped after infinity vetoed the design in the last minute (and me apparently killing kapok.buildd completely with the first working build)
<ogra_>  * looking into using a (currently 2.1G big) package to instead have the builds abusing a package builder which isnt ideal either and would require huge uploads or diffed tarballs from the various git trees at least...
<ogra_>    (preferably i would just like an additional android cross build machine (simple desktop class PC) to simply build the source as intended by its creators but according to infinity thats not possible either due to budget.
<ogra_>  * discussing if we should not better keep the android builds in jenkins/IBS completely
<slangasek> sort of all-consuming bullet points ;)
<ogra_>  * pretty frustrating week after all ...
<ogra_>  
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * find a solution for that mess above ...
<ogra_>  * sort out ESTA for sprint travel
<ogra_>  * finally start looking into emulator work
<ogra_> :wq
<cjwatson> Finished initial app package installer prototype.  Currently shelved pending discussion (and probably 13.04 release).
<cjwatson> Finished ghc transition. \o/
<cjwatson> Fought Canonistack a bit; ended up submitting a support ticket for an apparently lost volume (though I should have a backup of everything important; this is for the auto-cross-builder).
<cjwatson> Prepared LP branch for bug 1169627, to make queue review a bit easier.  Landing as I paste this.
<ubottu> bug 1169627 in Launchpad itself "Show link to source archive for copies in +queue" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1169627
<cjwatson> Investigated bug 851562, for the same reason.  Looks as though it may require a database change.
<ubottu> bug 851562 in Launchpad itself "Diff's not available for sync's on +queue page like for regular uploads" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851562
<cjwatson> Refreshed translations in various packages (ubiquity, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, debian-installer).
<cjwatson> Reviewed various help pages for web team.
<cjwatson> Merged installation-guide fix to update it to raring.
<cjwatson> Digging into bug 1124384.  Making some progress, I think ...
<ubottu> bug 1124384 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "reload-configuration can confuse upstart" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124384
<cjwatson> Various bits of upload queue review.
<cjwatson> Gave up on my dying N900 and ordered a Nexus 4.
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> i have a spare n900 here if you want to replace it :P
<ev> speaking of the sprint, VS19 is quite the party plane.
<xnox> cjwatson: join the Nexus club =))))
<xnox> ev: i am not on it this time around =(
<ev> :-/
<cjwatson> ogra_: Heh, maybe - I should probably have a Nexus all things considered anyway
<ogra_> hehe, yeah
 * xnox is a black duck on a United Airlines flight.... I wonder if anyone flies on those at all =)
<cjwatson> I think I'm on United
<ogra_> the n900 is such a nice thing though ...
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, it's a bit early to be thinking about dogfooding Ubuntu Touch on your primary phone :)
<cjwatson> Yeah, UA931
<cjwatson> slangasek: Well, yeah, but eventually :)
<ogra_> slangasek, shhh
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<xnox> slangasek: cjwatson: at least nexus4 supports full-image phone backup over adb. thus it should be safe to reflash it with ubuntu touch and revert back. But I have yet to trust myself enough to do that.
<slangasek> fwiw bdmurray and I discussed the question of how we're handling defect escalations, and concluded that it might be better to handle these by mail daily rather than in the weekly meeting - especially right now as we're so close to release
<slangasek> so if you're getting mails from Brian about defects, please treat them with a high priority
<slangasek> ok?
<cjwatson> ack
<ogra_> just because its brian though
<slangasek> stokachu: and it sounded like things are under control on your side, right?
<stokachu> slangasek: yea man, everything is caught up this week
<xnox> cjwatson: i'm on UA955 somehow, yet there are 4 people in total on yours =/
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<xnox> ack on the bugs.
<slangasek> anything else, then?
 * slangasek throws people off balance with a half-length meeting ;)
<xnox> I guess we can discuss and vote on the next code name, then ;-)
<ogra_> yeah, its about time for a name ...
<xnox> Squishy Salamander sounds ok
<barry> squishy swan
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#A13.10
<cjwatson> Has somebody poked Mark about this already?
<ogra_> you think he forgot ?
<xnox> or one can look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames#S
 * ogra_ bets clan doesnt 
<cjwatson> It's been getting later and later
<ogra_> yup
 * xnox giggles at Spastic Stallion
<bdmurray> I thought ScottK had committed to poking
<xnox> ScottK: do you know the next codename? =)
<slangasek> Synalgesic Stegosaurus
 * ogra_ votes for "end of edit conflict" ... that seems to be very popular for all releases
<ev> ha!
<xnox> Hmm.... with unity logo spinning clockwise, maybe it will be simply named SS.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on codename for s opening
<meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to follow up on codename for s opening
<slangasek> xnox: <facepalm>
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 17 15:35:13 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-17-15.01.html
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> thanks all!
<ogra_> thanks!
<xnox> slangasek: you should see all the "conspiracy" theories on G+ & OMGubuntu
<jodh> thanks!
<ev> thanks
<ev> xnox: like how the community is being removed from Ubuntu because the new website doesn't have an entire section dedicated to it yet?
<ogra_> yeah :(
<ev> heaven forbid we try to coordinate the navigation structure across the community first, or let the community portal get built
<xnox> ev: just wait for them to diff the pages and notice that "Debian" is not on the default front-page any more.
<ev> xnox: don't get me started on the whole "Ubuntu is not a distribution. It's an operating system. Chrome doesn't put all the BSD libraries its built with on the home page." thing.
<xnox> ev: but our homepage says that "ubuntu is an acient african word", not a "distribution" nor "operating system" =)))))))
<ev> where?
<ev> "Ubuntu is the world's favourite free operating system"
<xnox> ev: "http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu"
<xnox> "About Ubuntu" at the bottom of each page.
<ev> ah
 * xnox totally fails to read the homepage's largest font and instead opting in for small-print
<ev> :)
<xnox> reminds me Hiscox ads "T&C the scariest letters in the English alphabet"
<ev> ha! I haven't seen that one
<xnox> ev: they do cool billboards: http://www.hiscox.co.uk/shared-images/media_final_get-a-quote_568x224.png        http://www.hiscox.com/~/media/Images/H/Hiscox/Images/content/Joe-bloggs.jpg?w=558&h=275&as=1
<ev> nice!
<ScottK> bdmurray: Not me.
<bdmurray> oh maybe it was Scott R
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-04-18
<IdleOne> !no rmb is <reply> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, amachu, and bkerensa. Meeting time.
<ubottu> I'll remember that IdleOne
<IdleOne> Going with this. PM me or otherwise ping me if it needs fixing
 * hggdh pops in (again) ;-)
<IdleOne> :P
<jared> See it works, you ping and we immediately have quorum.
<IdleOne> now if we can only have this happen for meetings we would we set :)
<cyphermox> Yay.
<IdleOne> s/we/be/
<hggdh> I actually was in yesterday, just a tad late
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> who do we have here for the CC meeting?
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 18 17:02:20 2013 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski dholbach
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach
<dholbach> so for today's meeting we just have "Ask the CC" on the agenda (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda)
<dholbach> I haven't been part of any of these yet, so I guess I'll just ask if there's questions from anyone here? :)
<dholbach> #topic Ask the CC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ask the CC
<czajkowski> nobody?
<czajkowski> well the catch up with the governance boards has been useful
<dholbach> yeah :)
<czajkowski> but anyone can always ask the CC stuff or raise any issues.
<dholbach> it's not entirely Community Council related, but I'd like to just quickly mention something I blogged about yesterday
<dholbach> some have noticed that in the redesign of the ubuntu.com page, the "Community" link went missing
<dholbach> and there's work underway (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityWebsite has more details) to set up a more exciting, more up-to-date and more inviting page
<dholbach> where we're still looking for some help to get it all nice and updated
<dholbach> once that's up and running, the link will be put back again
<dholbach> so if anyone of you is interested in that, please let me know :)
<dholbach> Any other questions?
<czajkowski> yes it would be nice if people helped if possible
<dholbach> I guess if nobody has questions now, we could still answer them via mail and then blog them or something.
<czajkowski> dholbach: sounds good to me
<dholbach> I guess we can't wait a few more mins and then move over to mail
<czajkowski> and the loco council nominations comes to a close tomorrow
<czajkowski> so they'll be mailed to the CC
<dholbach> ah, great
<czajkowski> shall we call it a day
<dholbach> all right... I think we'll wrap it here then
<dholbach> tomorrow I'll include it in our team report, so people get another chance to see the call for questions
<dholbach> all right everyone
<czajkowski> toodles
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 18 17:11:19 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-18-17.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-04-18-17.02.html
<crhrabal> I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, but I have not been able to use Accomplishments since 13.04. Is this project still set to release in 13.04?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-14
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<chrisccoulson> o/
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 14 16:34:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Patrik Lundin (patrik-lundin) provided debdiffs for lucid-precise for OpenAFS (LP: #1305807). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1305807 in openafs (Ubuntu) "DSA-2899-1 openafs -- security update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1305807
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I've got a short week this week (off friday) and next (off monday)
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I'd like to finish up install testing. I did desktop and server already and filed a couple of bugs
<jdstrand> still going through touch
<jdstrand> I'd like to take a look at scopes confinement
<jdstrand> and get to some updates
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm off on monday also
<mdeslaur> I'm working on the usual CVE updates
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it for me, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor again this week.
<sbeattie> I'm still trying to wrap up my review of jjohansen's patches
<sbeattie> as well as writing and doing some additional tests
<sbeattie> I need to shave some yaks and upgrade a couple of my secondary systems to trusty
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me; tyhicks, you're up
<tyhicks> I didn't get to iterate on the aa.py patches last week, so I've still got to do that
<tyhicks> I was just reminded that I need to respin the patches in the upstream dbus-daemon AA mediation bug after some feedback I received
<tyhicks> after that, I need to take a look at my work items and sync up w/ mdeslaur
<jdstrand> wasn't there kdbus stuff from a bit back?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: ah, yes! that'll be what I focus on
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on apparmor this week. I need to finish up the backport kernels for ubuntu touch, and finish up with several bugs lp1306804, two refcount bugs, a pivot_root bug, as well as kick out a new iteration of patches for review
<jdstrand> jjohansen: which kernels are you doing?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: for the backport?
<jdstrand> yeah
<jjohansen> jdstrand: atm 3.4 mako/manta but will also need to do flo
<jjohansen> after that we can see
<jdstrand> grouper might be interesting since several people on the team have it
<jjohansen> yeah
<jdstrand> unity hasn't run super great on it, but I noticed that is is actually useful if you clear out /var/crash/* and kill any running apports
<jdstrand> not saying it is a high priority though. it isn't for me know that I have flo
<jdstrand> jjohansen: oh, goldfish too-- that probably is a high priority
<jdstrand> s/know/now/
<jjohansen> jdstrand: your the only one on the team
<jdstrand> with flo?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yeah goldfish too
<jdstrand> (fyi, my flo is my personal device that I dual boot)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: basically those 4 are all the same backport for apparmor
<jdstrand> oh goldfish is with the others?
<jdstrand> I either forgot or never knew that :)
<mdeslaur> what's goldfish?
<jjohansen> emulator
<jdstrand> emulator
<mdeslaur> oh
<sarnold> do we have a handy table somewhere to convert these names into what they actually are?
<mdeslaur> sarnold: I'm making one right now
<jjohansen> sarnold: hrmm, I'm not sure we do for all of them, there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices for the earlier ones
<tyhicks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Supported_devices_and_codenames
<mdeslaur> sarnold: before insanity sets in
<sarnold> yay
<mdeslaur> oh, well, there you go
<mdeslaur> except for goldfish they're all there
<jjohansen> anyways thats it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in my happy place this week
<sarnold> which this week means apparmor patch review
<sarnold> I'm finished with all the MIRs for trusty :)
<mdeslaur> \o/
<sbeattie> yay
 * jjohansen is not sure that is such a happy place, but is glad sarnold is a masochist
<sarnold> yeah :) \o/ indeed :)
<sarnold> but it'll be nice to reduce the number of not-checked-in patches for apparmor, so hooray
<sarnold> that's me done, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> this week, i've got a chromium update
<chrisccoulson> and i'm also currently investigating getting hangouts working in oxide (requires support for ppapi plugins)
<chrisccoulson> other than that, it's business as usual :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: we already have those security updates in oxide 501, correct?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, we're based on the dev channel, so I guess so. things are going to be a bit confusing until we're on the stable channel
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yeah, you've got the plan to get there though. I forget when you said we'd be on stable...
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to aim to branch for beta at the next chromium release. i think that's realistic now
<chrisccoulson> so that would mean we'd be on stable within the next 2 releases
<chrisccoulson> ie, by chromium 36
<chrisccoulson> (we're on 34 now)
<jdstrand> is that ~4 weeks?
<chrisccoulson> it's a bit longer than that. the releases seem to be ~6 weeks
<chrisccoulson> when do we do 14.04.1?
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> I couldn't remember if the major release was 2 weeks or 6
<chrisccoulson> so, 12.04.1 was in august
<jdstrand> that's fine
<chrisccoulson> we can be on a stable channel quite a way before then :)
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> I'm not worried, I just couldn't remember the timing
<mdeslaur> what's special about 14.04.1?
<chrisccoulson> i'll send an e-mail later so everybody is aware, but I think the aim should be that we branch on the next chromium release (~5-6 weeks from now)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: its when precise users get the update-manager recommendation to upgrade
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I know what it is, I just don't know why that has anything to do with oxide
<jdstrand> webapp-container is used on the desktop
<jdstrand> installed by default and uses oxide
<mdeslaur> o_O?
<mdeslaur> where?
<jdstrand> webapps
<jdstrand> this is so we don't need all the special code in firefox and chromium that was so brittle and either broke or blocked the updates
<mdeslaur> wow
<jdstrand> (this was the webapps' team plan for the 14.04 dev cycle all along)
<jdstrand> it's in an image near you right now :)
<mdeslaur> ok, hah, well it instantly segfaults for me in 14.04
<jdstrand> uh
<chrisccoulson> oh :/
<jdstrand> it should not. are you up to date? please file a bug
<jdstrand> 1.0.0~bzr501-0ubuntu1 is the latest
<mdeslaur> does it require 3d?
<mdeslaur> it explodes in a vm, but not on my main desktop
<chrisccoulson> aha, qtquick requires a GL api
<mdeslaur> ah, ok, it segfaults because it doesn't have enough ram
<mdeslaur> bumping up the ram in the vm fixed it
<mdeslaur> jdstrand, chrisccoulson: sorry for interrupting, please continue
<chrisccoulson> oh, I think I'm done now anyway :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pywbem.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-radius.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibm-3270.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tpp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ltp.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 14 17:25:36 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-14-16.34.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<mdeslaur> \o
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda claims pitti is chairing?
<slangasek> kees, stgraber: ?
<infinity> o/
 * slangasek waves to infinity 
<mdeslaur> hi infinity
<stgraber> I'm around
<infinity> Am I fashionably late?
<slangasek> you are
<mdeslaur> heh
<slangasek> pitti isn't here; not sure if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda is accurate that he was supposed to be chairing
<slangasek> if so, does that mean it falls through to me?
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 14 20:04:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * slangasek takes action!
 * mdeslaur cheers slangasek on
<slangasek> [TOPIC] next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next meeting
<slangasek> according to my calendar, next meeting should be Apr 28, 20:00 UTC
<slangasek> ... with pitti as the next chair?
<infinity> Yeah.
<mdeslaur> sounds right
<slangasek> [AGREED] Next meeting Apr 28, 20:00 UTC, pitti to chair
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Apologies
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Apologies
<slangasek> I don't think we had anyone say ahead of time that they wouldn't make it
<slangasek> but it looks like kees, sabdfl, pitti are absent without regrets, and the rest of us are here
<stgraber> we actually had pitti say ahead of time that he'd make it for sure ;)
<slangasek> right :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<mdeslaur> hi stgraber
<slangasek> were there any actions from last time?  they're not noted in the agenda
 * slangasek checks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/Current
<slangasek> not updated from the previous meeting, so...
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Review our current "provisional" Micro Release Exceptions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review our current "provisional" Micro Release Exceptions
<slangasek> this one needs to turn into something other than a perpetually carried-over item
<slangasek> infinity: I recall that you asked kees about it last time, but I don't remember a decision being taken
<mdeslaur> kees isn't here for that one, so I guess we skip for now
<kees> I'm here. carry please
<mdeslaur> hi kees
<kees> hola
<slangasek> kees: how do we help turn this into something other than a 'carry'?
<kees> sorry I'm late!
<infinity> I think last time, I asked kees to provide enough detail to the list of his intent and proposed strategy that maybe some people could take some load off.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> how about if I explicitly [action] that?
<kees> slangasek: so, I think we to generate a report showing which MREs have happened, and which haven't.
<kees> attempting to analyze bug counts didn't work; it's way too complex.
<slangasek> kees: is that something you want to still drive, or is it just defaulting to you and we should try to find someone else to do it?
<kees> slangasek: I've made no head way, so I probably shouldn't own it. one option would be to assign out chunks of MREs to check.
<slangasek> kees: I think I'd rather tag someone on the SRU team to help out with getting us a general report
<slangasek> (I think I know just the person)
<slangasek> so let me take the action to get us the report, and then we can go from there on list?
<kees> okay
<infinity> slangasek: Which person did you have in mind?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to work with SRU team to get a list of how the provisional MREs have/haven't been used
<meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to work with SRU team to get a list of how the provisional MREs have/haven't been used
<slangasek> infinity: bdmurray, the grand master launchpad miner
<infinity> slangasek: Seems sensible.
<infinity> You should get him a hat with a light on.
<mdeslaur> hehe
<slangasek> and a canary icon for his lp profile
<slangasek> so there are no other explicit agenda items in the wiki
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<slangasek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2014-April/ shows the Ubuntu Kylin discussions, and MRE requests for lxc, juju-core, iscsitarget
<slangasek> I do want to discuss the kylin one here (sorry for not putting it on the agenda explicitly)
<slangasek> do the MREs need discussion here/now?
<slangasek> for the lxc one, stgraber has answered pitti's questions; since pitti has already looked at it, it's probably sensible to let him continue driving that one on list
<mdeslaur> I think we can continue them on the list
<slangasek> iscsitarget had a +1 from pitti but has not yet been added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions - can someone take care of that?
<slangasek> (the rule for MREs is still 'a single +1', right?)
<slangasek> and the juju-core one seems to still be in discussion on list
<slangasek> (iscsitarget MRE added to the wiki)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] UbuntuKylin archive
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: UbuntuKylin archive
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Kylin/Ubuntu%20Kylin%20Archive
<slangasek> we have a draft that I believe captures the TB consensus on the mailing list so far
<slangasek> but I think we only have 3 explicit +1s on this (stgraber, myself, mdeslaur)
<slangasek> kees, infinity: I've been assuming there's nothing too controversial there at this point, and so have been proceeding with the implementation, but would appreciate an explicit ack
<infinity> slangasek: Right, let me quickly review the wiki page again.
<slangasek> thanks
<infinity> slangasek: Does ~ubuntu-archive get r/w access to the repo to force removal issues, or do we just ask nicely?
<slangasek> infinity: at present I'm expecting that we request removal of the kylin team rather than being hands-on with archive access
<infinity> slangasek: Otherwise, looks fine.
<infinity> slangasek: I'm okay with us asking nicely in the general case anyway, just thinking that an explicit ACL serves better than polite process if we ever find them unresponsive for too long about a severe issue or whatever.
<slangasek> infinity: I have no opinion on the mechanics of the oversight; if you think it's important to have direct access, I suggest proposing this to Jack on the list
<infinity> slangasek: I don't think it would block my +1 on the proposal.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> oh hey, we could do an actual explicit vote here
<infinity> slangasek: It's about on par with "core-devs should be able to commit to all your *&!% packaging branches", which is never as true as it should be. :P
<slangasek> [VOTE] ratification of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Kylin/Ubuntu%20Kylin%20Archive
<meetingology> Please vote on: ratification of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Kylin/Ubuntu%20Kylin%20Archive
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<slangasek> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from slangasek
<infinity> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from infinity
<mdeslaur> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdeslaur
<infinity> Hah.  You got a new vote and lost an old one. ;)
<slangasek> stgraber, kees:
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<slangasek> kees: do you need more time to review/consider?
<slangasek> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: ratification of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu%20Kylin/Ubuntu%20Kylin%20Archive
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<slangasek> always room for more feedback on the list :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Check up on community bugs
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard is quite empty
<slangasek> so... done
<slangasek> and that leaves selecting a chair, which I believe we did at the beginning
<slangasek> anything I've missed?
<mdeslaur> nope
<slangasek> cool
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<mdeslaur> thanks slangasek!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-15
<jamespage> o/
<rharper> \o
<beisner> howdy o/
<smoser> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> smoser: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<coreycb> o/
<smoser> #endmeeting
<smoser> oh fiddle.
<coreycb> that was quick
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> smoser: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<stgraber> #endmeeting
<smoser> stgraber, can you fix that ^
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<smoser> thanks.
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> smoser: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> smoser: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<smoser> still no dice
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<matsubara> o/
<stgraber> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> stgraber: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<stgraber> hmm, lost cause apparently
<smoser> well then, meetingology, we're going to run our meeting without your help.
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> smoser: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting i dont see any ACTION points, so moving on.
<smoser> #topic Trusty Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> in case you were not aware, 14.04 will be released in 2 days.
<smoser> its well past time to sneak stuff in.
<jamespage> still trying tho
<jamespage> :-)
<smoser> well then.
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> we still have some Ctritial and High important bugs there.
<smoser> jamespage, they seem to all be generally yours :).
<smoser> any comments?
<jamespage> unsurpisingly we are waiting on swift, neutron and cinder packages to be accepted still
<jamespage> most other things are OK - ceph will go in as an SRU
<smoser> #subtopic Blueprints
<smoser> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<smoser> there really isn't any time to get work items into archive.
<smoser> so if you have some to do, you should probably POSTPONE
<smoser> unless they're documentation and non-archive related.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<smoser> caribou gave prior notice that he'd not be here. so moving on.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> smoser: nothing to report this week too, smoke tests are fine
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing fancy this week. Are there things you want to bring up?
<smoser> my only issue recently with kernel is the development release's purging kernel binaries from archive
<smoser> which is annoying to things like d-i, such that user has to always have latest thing.
<smoser> this is nothing to do with smb really, but I just wanted to remark on it.
<smoser> ACTION: smoser raise request to not purge kernels from archive quite so quickly
<smb> smoser, I guess nothing new either
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone have anything ?
<zul> i like turtles
<smb> That is a archive issue as anythign not in any pocket gets purged iirc
<zul> and sloths
<smoser> unseen unicorn
<smoser> just saying
<zul> lol
 * hallyn is lost
<smoser> hallyn, its tradition for ubuntu releases to be named with an adjective and a animal
<zul> i like sloths better than turtles...if i had a choice
<smoser> and its coming close to a point when the next deelopment cycle will be started :)
<smoser> thus, the unseen unicorn.
<smoser> also, if you're reading here, you might be interested in http://www.canonical.com/careers
<hallyn> lol.  of course
<beisner> i think U should just be Ubuntu.  we only have one shot at this!  ;)
<hallyn> the slot i guess confused me
<smoser> well, ABCs are not zul's forte.
<rharper> hehe
<hallyn> it's tough
<zul> smoser:  i blame the canadian school system
<smoser> if anything on the jobs page there looks interesting , especially server related, please feel free to contact me.
<zul> teach me french why dont you
<smoser> this ends the advertisement portion of our meeting.
<smoser> surely by the time this meeting occurs next week we'll have an official U animal.
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> unhygenic unicorn?
<smoser> Tuesday 2014-04-22 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
<smoser> happy tax day to americans.
<smoser> #endmeeting
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> jsalisbury: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<smb> jsalisbury, the bot lost its mind
<jsalisbury> hmm meetingology is in trouble
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> o//
<rtg> o/
<kamal> o/
<henrix> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                      || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation           || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans                   || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The 3.13.0-24.46 Ubuntu kernel in the Trusty archive is currently based on the v3.13.9 upstream stable kernel.  The kernel is currently frozen
<ogasawara> in preparation for our final 14.04 release this Thurs Apr 17. kernel.
<ogasawara> We do not anticipate any uploads between now and Thurs.  All patches
<ogasawara> from here on out are subject to our Ubuntu SRU policy.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 17 - Ubuntu 14.04 Final Release (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 25):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 30-Mar through 26-Apr
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          28-Mar   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 30-Mar - 05-Apr   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 06-Apr - 12-Apr   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf>          17-Apr   14.04 Released
<bjf> 13-Apr - 26-Apr   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Vote on upload rights for kamal.
<kamal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KamalMostafa/KernelPPUApplication
<rtg> +1
<ogasawara> +1
<bjf> +1
<ogasawara> <apw> "kamal has shown himself to have a keen eye for detail, and a
<ogasawara> strong sense of when to ask for help.  I have no hesitations in
<ogasawara> accepting him into the team.  +1"
<ogasawara> ^^ from apw
<cking> +1
<henrix> +1
<rtg> be it resolved, blah, blah...
<kamal> thanks folks
<smb> +1
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<jose> #startmeeting Test meeting
<meetingology> jose: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jose> hmm, looks like a bug, I'll poke someone to get it fixed
<lderan>  [[http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/cabbagehuggers/2014/cabbagehuggers.2014-04-15-19.20.log.html#5 ratification of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu Kylin/Ubuntu Kylin Archive]] as an output for moinmoin okay?
<lderan> wrong channel apologise
<lderan> %'s are throwing off the meeting bot for votes, so if they have a url in #vote bit its causing it to fall over
<slickymaster> still wrong channel lderan :P
<lderan> aye was just describing what happened :)
<slickymaster> lol, my bas then
<slickymaster> *bad
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-16
<AlbertoSN> Mek!
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox, amachu, and chilicuil. Meeting time.
<jared> Good evening all, please bear with us while we gather enough to reach quorum for the meeting
<AlbertoSN> Okay
<jared> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> jared: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jared> #endmeeting
<jared> Hmm
<jared> I'm not sure I can make the bot work
<jared> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> jared: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<IdleOne> #endmeeting
<IdleOne> interesting
<jared> I think it needs to be the previous chair to end it
<AlbertoSN> I think it's uneeded: the meeting has been started by the bot
<jared> So, my logic is the channel is publicly logged anyway, should we just do it old school and manual?
<IdleOne> jared: yes
<jared> AlbertoSN: it's still on a previous meeting, not the current one.
<jared> So we'll just ignore the bot for now
<jared> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for April 16, 2014.
<qengho> "We'll do it live!"
<jared> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<jared> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<jared> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jared> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<jared> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<jared> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<hggdh> Quintasan: /msg qengho do you have anyone from Canonical that is also an Ubuntu member to vouch for you during the RMB meeting? If so, it would be good to have them present *now*
<jared> (As much as prerecorded messages are "manual")
<hggdh> dammit
<Quintasan> oh well
 * hggdh apologises. But the message is considered sent
<Quintasan> :D
<jared> So, we have Chad Miller up first, is Chad here with us (the nickname on Launchpad doesn't appear to be here)
<hggdh> actually, the nick is present -- qengho
<qengho> I'm Chad.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChadMiller/DeveloperApplication
<jared> Good evening qengho , sorry was reading the wrong nick
<jared> qengho: can you please introduce yourself while the board reads over the application
<qengho> I've been involved in Debian and Ubuntu for a long while.  Switched to Linux in 1995, though Slackware.  Debian immediately won me over.
<jared> For the record, as the bot is broken, the current boardmembers present are hggdh, Pendulum, IdleOne and I.
<qengho> Became Debian Developer in late 1990s.
<qengho> Maintained a few packages, and gave up DD in 2004 or so.
<qengho> I signed on to code-of-conduct early in Ubuntu's life, and joined Canonical about 4 years ago.
<qengho> I've been happy with other people sponsoring my packages, but since I am the only person working on chromium-browser, I think I should try to join officially and get permission to upload directly.
<qengho> EOF
<jared> qengho: ah I was wondering that, were you specifically seeking upload rights or just Ubuntu membership?
<hggdh> qengho: just a question, right now: why are you here instead of the DMB?
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<IdleOne> DMB = Developer Membership Board (they are the ones who can grant upload rights)
<IdleOne> thank you AlanBell
<AlanBell> anyone can op up and do chair commands
<qengho> jared: Well, upload also, but I don't have a strong opinion about it.  I have good sponsors available.
<jared> qengho: the main problem being is we are unable to grant any developer rights on this board
<jared> We're happy to proceed based upon gaining Ubuntu Membership but just to let you know the DMB (as pointed out) are the ones capable of giving upload rights (and also have the ability to grant Ubuntu Membership)
<qengho> hggdh, jared, I see.  Well, I'd still like membership.
<jared> qengho: no problems, just making sure you're aware of all the outcomes
<Pendulum> The DMB also is also able to confer a level of membership that has a little more relevancy to developers than just regular Ubuntu Membership. We can't give it out and I haven't heard it being added on top of someone who was given membership through an RMB
<hggdh> qengho: our problem is your wiki is geared for a DMB application; there is not much for a RMB application (like, community)
<qengho> Oh.
<hggdh> qengho: this was one reason for me trying to /msg you earlier on
<IdleOne> I would suggest you apply directly to the DMB, if approved by them you would get Ubuntu membership + the upload rights you are seeking
<AlbertoSN> Excuse me: the Internet connection of my university disconected
<qengho> Very well.  Thank you.
<IdleOne> but if you want to proceed here that is also fine. Just know that we can't give you upload privs
<jared> AlbertoSN: no problems, just taking through options with qengho still
<jared> qengho: the DMB's next meeting is Monday - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda is that a suitable time in your time zone?
<cyphermox> I'm around now
<qengho> jared: that time is fine. I'll take my application there.
<IdleOne> qengho: sorry about the confusion the application process may have caused.
<qengho> And I'm sorry for wasting time.
<IdleOne> no worries :)
<Pendulum> qengho: We just want to make sure that you're able to apply to the team most equipped to deal with your interests and needs. It's not time wasted at all :)
<IdleOne> ^
<jared> qengho: no time wasting, just making sure you get the right outcome.
<jared> Hah, at least we're consistent
<jared> qengho: did you h ave any other questions about the process or can we move on to the next applicant?
<qengho> No questions. EOF
<jared> AlbertoSN: can you please introduce yourself while we read over your application
<jared> qengho: thanks for that
<AlbertoSN> Yes
<AlbertoSN> My name is Alberto Salvia Novella: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e
<AlbertoSN> I coordinate the "One Hundred Papercuts" project: https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts
<AlbertoSN> Since, I believe, November or before
<AlbertoSN> I joined Ubuntu Bug Control a year ago, and since then managed several bugs: https://launchpad.net/~es20490446e/+karma
<jared> AlbertoSN: I've noticed there has been a little friction lately with regards to your handling of bugs. Have you been able to work through that with the team?
<AlbertoSN> Brian Murray told me he will speak with my in regard of this after tTrusty has been released. But I have no news about it since, I believe, he's somehow busy at this time.
<AlbertoSN> Better to ask himself.
<jared> AlbertoSN: no worries
<NikTh> AlbertoSN: Good wiki page and very good contribution in bug management. Try to keep it that way (in regards to bug management).
<NikTh> Just to let you know, AlbertoSN has my support in his Ubuntu membership application.
<AlbertoSN> Thank you, NikTh
<AlbertoSN> :)
<AlbertoSN> Is there any information you'll find useful about me?
<jared> AlbertoSN: sorry, just reading over information still
<AlbertoSN> Continue please: I believe watching at what has been already done is better than me explaining it
<jared> AlbertoSN: okay, so I'll lay it out. We are having problems reconciling an application when you have had access removed in Launchpad pending a discussion at a more appropriate time.
<jared> AlbertoSN: We (the board have been discussing) believe it might be better to put your application on hold until you're able to have that discussion with the appropriate people.
<AlbertoSN> Okay: thank you
<hggdh> BTW I want to make clear that I will not vote for, or against, AlbertoSN until he, Brian, and I get together
<jared> AlbertoSN: would you be comfortable putting it on hold until such a time?
<AlbertoSN> I have no hurry
<jared> We don't want to outright deny it without discussion but we do feel an important part of membership is getting along with the community. And while such actions are still outstanding we feel we can't make a proper judgement until that is completed
<AlbertoSN> Ok
<jared> AlbertoSN: thank you for your understanding. We are more than happy to look at your application again as soon as that is resolved.
<jared> AlbertoSN: do you have any questions for us?
<AlbertoSN> Nope: thank you
<jared> AlbertoSN: Thank you for your understanding. As we said, please do apply again when you feel ready and the issue with Bug Control is resolved.
<AlbertoSN> Bai bai
<AlbertoSN> Have a nice day
<jared> Ok well I think that wraps it up for us this evening/morning
<jared> Thanks to the board members who were around and thanks to the applicants
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<AlanBell> no it isn't :)
<AlanBell> meetingology: quit
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 16 13:50:37 2014 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<AlanBell> foo
<AlanBell> #done bar
<AlanBell> #vote on stuffs
<meetingology> Please vote on: on stuffs
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<AlanBell> +1 to that
<meetingology> +1 to that received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on stuffs
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<AlanBell> #topic something
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: something
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 16 13:51:13 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-16-13.50.moin.txt
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 16 13:51:19 2014 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 16 13:51:22 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-16-13.51.moin.txt
<AlanBell> ok, seems happy now
<hggdh> AlanBell: thank you sir
<MooDoo> are you breaking things again AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: things need breaking from time to time :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<Pici> I have a meatspace conference call I need to attend now too, so I'll be trying to multitask
<MooDoo> I'm sure you'll cope Pici :)
<Pici> and I'm eating lunch
<MooDoo> now steady on there :)
<MooDoo> I must admin I'm only here for 30 mins as I have to put kids to bed :D
<optrusty> hi guys
<MooDoo> hello optrusty
<optrusty> you is the meeting starting
<MooDoo> yeah should be in a min
<MooDoo> I hope lol
<AlanBell> hi
<MooDoo> hello AlanBell
<optrusty> hi Alam
<optrusty> woops
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 16 18:02:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic:
<optrusty> sorry
<AlanBell> hi all
<MooDoo> good evening
<optrusty> hi!
<phunyguy> hi
<AlanBell> so we have an agenda over here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> if anyone has anything else to add at the end then feel free to PM me as and when the topic occurs to you
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
<IdleOne> o/
<MooDoo> apologies but i can only stay till 7:30 as the kids needs to be put to bed.
<AlanBell> last meeting was here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20140319
<Pici> We did the factoid cleanup.
<AlanBell> one action was to follow up on reporting back to the community, which I think we clarified in the meeting, we can do responsive things via the tracker, otherwise monthly meetings or whatever is appropriate for the issues as they are raised
<knome> and via the LP bugs.
<Pici> Sort of related, we have a meeting with the CC tomorrow.
<AlanBell> we did the factoid changes, we have a bit of cleanup still to do
<AlanBell> I have been a bit unavailable for a few weeks with year end stuff
<AlanBell> and yes, we have a meeting with the CC tomorrow, which is also release day
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> just checked, nothing in the tracker
<Pici> Yay!
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> our one bug is bug 892501
<ubottu> bug 892501 in ubuntu-community "Floodbots - need a re-write to be under ubuntu operator team control" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892501
<AlanBell> how is unopaste doing?
<Pici> 'okay'
<Pici> Although, to be honest, I haven't seen a lot of paste offenders in recent memory.
<AlanBell> need any tweaks? any false positives? is it sufficient?
<phunyguy> there was one failure to quiet though.
<AlanBell> need to be in other channels?
<phunyguy> I would have to dig in logs to get the scenario.
<phunyguy> But I think that was related to recent netsplits.
<MooDoo> which have been fun :(
<AlanBell> I am not sure if there are enough people here right now to get a wide range of opinions on it, I think we will leave the bug open for a bit longer
<AlanBell> unopaste does so much less than the floodbots did, but I don't really know if there are any other priority functions to implement
<Pici> lets see what the release tomorrow brings
<IdleOne> the bot seems to be working pretty good as is.
<AlanBell> Pici: good point
<Pici> something about it was annoying me, but I forget what it was.
<IdleOne> I don't think there is a rush to add features, whatever those features might be.
<AlanBell> it failed to authenticate at some point in the splits
<IdleOne> which is why it had failed to mute
<phunyguy> ahh that may have caused the failure I mentioned.
<phunyguy> yep.
<AlanBell> oh, that would do it, yes
<AlanBell> needs more admins, not just me
<IdleOne> but that was one little hiccup
<AlanBell> I will sort that out when I figure out how
<AlanBell> ok, moving on
<AlanBell> #topic factoid review review - did it work, should anything be reversed?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: factoid review review - did it work, should anything be reversed?
<AlanBell> we had a major cull of factoids, have they been missed?
<IdleOne> nothing I noticed
<AlanBell> did the change make a positive difference anywhere?
<knome> at least not a negative.
<phunyguy> I think it was a good thing.
<AlanBell> good to know :)
<AlanBell> ikonia raised some concerns about factoids that link to non-maintained sources like blogs rather than the wiki, that would be a good thing to clean up over time
<AlanBell> I might try and figure out which factoids contain links
<AlanBell> actually http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?search=http  kinda does it
<AlanBell> stuff like
<AlanBell> !sudo
<ubottu> sudo is a command to run command-line programs with superuser privileges ("root") (also see !cli). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information. For graphical applications see !gksu (GNOME, Xfce), or !kdesudo (KDE). If you're unable to execute commands with sudo see: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/fixsudo
<AlanBell> with a link to good information at psychocats.net would be better linking to good information at wiki.ubuntu.com
<phunyguy> that sounds like something I can do.
<phunyguy> the wiki part anyway
<AlanBell> ok, so in general the factoid cleanup has not lead to the end of the world as we know it, and might be a good thing
<AlanBell> that would be great phunyguy :)
<IdleOne> We tried this a couple years back. If the info on psychocats for example is good, why copy it?
<AlanBell> there might be other things with dead links
<AlanBell> or outdated information
<elfy> fyi /me is pretty sure that aysiu is not doing much in the way of maintaining psychocats
<Pici> Then maybe we should just check for dead/outdated information
<IdleOne> making sure the info we link to is good, is good.
<Pici> good
<Pici> I mean agreed.
<IdleOne> :)
<AlanBell> #action review factoids for links to unmaintained or outdated information, prefering links to official sources
<meetingology> ACTION: review factoids for links to unmaintained or outdated information, prefering links to official sources
<AlanBell> #topic Call for Operators
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: Call for Operators
<AlanBell> ok, so we did a call for operators, which we do roughly in line with the development cycle to be part of the cadence of the project as a whole
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2014-April/001692.html
<knome> may i notice also #ubuntu-doc could do well with one more (active) operator in the doc team.
<AlanBell> there are a number of applicants that we have been looking at, we have received feedback from a number of people, which is given confidentially, we are open to any further feedback, we also looked at things like the lines of text said in the various channels and launchpad karma (neither of which is an overriding factor)
<Pici> knome: thats not a core channel, so they can just ask us if they need to add another person onto the access list there.
<knome> Pici, then consider me just asked :)
<AlanBell> now we need to decide, if we have enough IRCC here at the moment
<Pici> knome: Well, you'd have to give us the account of the person you want us to add too.
<knome> Pici, you can add me
<knome> AlanBell, PM is okay?
<AlanBell> hggdh: Tm_T: here?
<AlanBell> knome: yeah, fine or #ubuntu-irc-council
<IdleOne> Pici: feel free to add me there also. I'm in that channel anyway I can easily keep an eye on it too
<AlanBell> where I should be
<Pici> IdleOne: knome: done and done
 * IdleOne ^5's knome 
<IdleOne> we're op buddies now!
<IdleOne> :P
<AlanBell> get a room
<IdleOne> k
<phunyguy> :(
<knome> IdleOne, lol
<knome> Pici, thanks
<Pici> np
<Pici> hmm
<MooDoo> ok guys i know this is the important bit that i wanted to be here for, but it's late and I need to get the kids to bed....apologies all around :(
<AlanBell> I think we will decide on them later, as soon as possible when all 4 of the IRCC are about, we will communicate the results to the applicants and the list
<AlanBell> but any further feedback now would be great
<Pici> Agreed.  We will communicate internally, place our votes, and then communicate the results
<AlanBell> ok, there are no membership applications so any other business really
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<Pici> sorry potential ops... we'll try to get this finished up as soon as we can.
<AlanBell> yeah, hopefully later today or tomorrow, no need for any further delay on that
<phunyguy> :(
<Pici> agreed
<Tm_T> hi, sorry I don't have capability until tomorrow
<AlanBell> tomorrow we have a meeting with the Community Council, is there anything particular we should raise with them?
<Pici> Compliments on their choice of timing?
<AlanBell> a very happy 14.04 to all
<Pici> :)
<phunyguy> ditto.
<IdleOne> thanks and same to you.
<optrusty> :D
<AlanBell> speaking of 14.04, it is release day tomorrow, we have a few things that causes in terms of factoid changes I believe
<AlanBell> we don't have a name for 14.10 yet do we?
<IdleOne> not that I know of
<IdleOne> !14.10
<IdleOne> nope
<phunyguy> Unicorn!
<AlanBell> Universal Unicorn
<IdleOne> 14.10 Ubuntu Ubuntu (So nice we said it twice)
<Pici> AlanBell: We should probably figure out how to get the config values on ubottu changed before then
<Pici> since we always have to bug ts1mpson about it
<IdleOne> I think you can bug unit193 about it too. he should know
<IdleOne> hopefully one of you has enough access to make the changes
<AlanBell> ok, any other items around release, or any other things to discuss?
<AlanBell> guess that means another UDS coming up as well
<IdleOne> yippee, another UDS that is not really accessible to most users
<AlanBell> there was a 14.03 UDS, next one would be 14.06 perhaps
<AlanBell> next meeting will be . . . 21st May, same time
<AlanBell> in the absence of anything else, lets wrap this one up . . . .
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 16 18:50:47 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-16-18.02.moin.txt
<IdleOne> thank you for the meeting
<AlanBell> thanks all
<AlanBell> we will sort out the ops applicants real soon
<optrusty> bye
<hggdh> darn!
 * genii makes coffee
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-17
<czajkowski> dholbach: elfy pleia2 mhall119 ping meeting time
<dholbach> hello hello
<elfy> everning
<dholbach> so we're meeting up with the IRC Council today - is anyone about?
<dholbach> or all busy in #ubuntu-release-party
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you free for a catch up with the CC today
<AlanBell> yes, no problem, hi everyone
<elfy> hi AlanBell
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<AlanBell> huh
<dholbach> did I use the wrong syntax or something?
<AlanBell> try now
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 17 17:04:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chairs  elfy pleia2 mhall119 czajkowski
<dholbach> ah... chairs command is gone
<dholbach> :)
<elfy> :)
<dholbach> welcome  everyone
<czajkowski> that works
<czajkowski> :)
 * Pici is sort of here
<dholbach> so we're meeting up with the IRC Council today
<elfy> I'll take a sofa then
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<dholbach> busy with release activities? :)
<AlanBell> chair command is singular, not chairs :)
<elfy> what can you do ... :p
<AlanBell> so, yes, today I have been doing a bit of moderating of #ubuntu-release-party :)
<AlanBell> we have had some tough times over the last few months, bit of drama around the departure of the floodbots, however things are moving on
<czajkowski> how are things going in the land of IRCC
 * mhall119 ishere
<elfy> o/
<AlanBell> we have put in place a new bot unopaste, that does the most visible bits that the floodbots did, and that seems to be working effectively
<Pici> Drama... but things seem better now.
<dholbach> cool
<elfy> Pici: appears to to me too
<dholbach> was the rest of the cycle like that as well? :)
<AlanBell> we had a resignation from the IRCC, so we are down to 4, which is OK
<Pici> We're in the middle of call-for-operators and should be finishing that up this week
<mhall119> I assume unopaste doesn't have the same licensing issues that floodbot had
<AlanBell> dholbach: this is the first cycle of the current IRCC
 * elfy saw that meeting Pici 
<dholbach> and you're still coping with 4 members of the IRCC?
<elfy> I'd be concerned about votes when needed with just 4
<AlanBell> mhall119: no, it is nicely licensed,GPL or apache, I would have to look up the precise detail, but it is Free Software
<mhall119> ok
<elfy> AlanBell: are there plans to deal with just 4 on IRCC?
<AlanBell> we are coping with 4, we decided not to urgently recruit, but carry on as is, with the option to fill the seat later
<elfy> right - I know that position well :)
<AlanBell> cproffit was helping with some advice as we went along which was great
<elfy> I assume you'd ask for help if you came across an unresolvable issue internally
<AlanBell> we don't tend to have split decisions, but yes, we would ask for help
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20140319 we discussed that in this meeting
<Pici> We don't have a lot of votables come up all that often either
<dholbach> and operations in general? are they working out all right right now?
<elfy> Pici: I'm in the same position with my other hat
<AlanBell> I think things are working out all right, we had a meeting yesterday which was quite positive
<AlanBell> we also did a factoid review which was a good collaborative exercise and got people talking about the general tone we want in the channels
<elfy> yea - saw that one going on as well - that seemed useful - from both points of view
<Pici> I was just going to mention the factoid review... I think we lot of input on that from both operators and some of our regulars.
<dholbach> nice - that's great to hear :)
<dholbach> did you have plans from vUDS or other discussions which are still on your TODO list?
<AlanBell> we do have a few long emails from operators expressing an assortment of concerns, one was an open letter to the discussion list, other things have been raised privately
<AlanBell> we need to address more of the points raised, but it isn't always obvious what to do about them :)
<dholbach> yeah, I can imagine
<AlanBell> is there another UDS coming up soon?
<mhall119> yes
<dholbach> yes, Jono just announced the dates a week ago - let me go find it
<mhall119> well, Ubuntu Online Summit, but same thing really
<dholbach> http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/04/03/ubuntu-online-summit-dates/
<AlanBell> ok, great
<dholbach> did you manage to recruit some new members or ops or helpers in the last time?
<AlanBell> we are just going through the voting process on an intake of operator applicants
<AlanBell> should be announcing that real soon now
<dholbach> awesome
<elfy> nice AlanBell
<dholbach> I'm quite happy with what I've heard and the work you're doing
<dholbach> thanks a lot for your hard work
<dholbach> do you have anything the CC could help with?
<dholbach> or any questions yourself?
<mhall119> me too, especialy the way you all handled the trouble you had to deal with
<elfy> +1 from me as well
<elfy> it's never easy
<AlanBell> not right now I think, we certainly appreciated the support we got from cproffit and others over the last few months
<dholbach> any more questions anyone?
<elfy> not from me
<elfy> thanks IRCC - good job done I think
<Pici> yay (sorry not been terribly active, meatspace things need my attention)
<dholbach> all rightie
<dholbach> in that case...
<dholbach> thanks again everyone from the IRCC - keep up the good work!
<dholbach> Does anyone have any other business to discuss?
<mhall119> not me
<elfy> not me
<dholbach> ok great - have a great rest of your day everyone!
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 17 17:31:59 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-17-17.04.moin.txt
<elfy> ty dholbach
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-04-18
<bran> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-13
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
 * sbeattie waves
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 13 16:37:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<chrisccoulson> hi
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Johan Van de Wauw (johanvdw) provided debdiffs for trusty-vivid for freexl (LP: #1437087)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437087 in freexl (Ubuntu) "Multiple vulnerabilities in freexl 1.0.0" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437087
<tyhicks> Thomas Ward (teward) provided a debdiff for utopic for wireshark (LP: #1440202)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1440202 in wireshark (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Security] April 3 2015 - 6 New CVEs affect Wireshark" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440202
<tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for trusty and utopic for xen
<tyhicks> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I think you're busy right now so we're going to skip ahead to mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> \o
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> and I have a half-day off on wednesay
<mdeslaur> I just published some tasty and delicious ntp updates
<mdeslaur> and I'm currently testing a bunch of libx11-related updates
<mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue to release tomorrow also
<mdeslaur> and a few more things to work on after that
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm trying to review apparmor patches and pull things together for a trusty SRU and 2.9.2 release (to base the python utils in the SRU off of)
<tyhicks> very nice
<sbeattie> I've also again got gcc pie on my plate
<sbeattie> that's the plan for this week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: all that is left for the gcc pie work is to benchmark a number of programs before the next dev release archive opens?
<sbeattie> I still want to do a bit more test builds against it to look for build breakages.
<sbeattie> (as well as the benchmarking, that is)
<tyhicks> sbeattie: ok - those are two pretty important items so let me know if anything unexpected pops up this week
<sbeattie> okay
<tyhicks> sbeattie: we'll try to find someone else to handle any distractions :)
<tyhicks> I'm handling the community role this week
<tyhicks> my planned work looks quite a bit like last week
<tyhicks> Vivid systemd/sbuild/schroot bugs (LP: #1427264) (LP: #1438942)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427264 in click (Ubuntu) "using ecryptfs, creating frameworks fail to bind mount issues" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1438942 in schroot (Ubuntu) "Host's /dev/shm is mounted over when entering 14.10 and older sbuild schroots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438942
<tyhicks> Restart work on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> Send out the patches to fix bug #1430532
<ubottu> bug 1430532 in AppArmor "libapparmor needs a public function to break a context into a label and mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430532
<tyhicks> I worked on those ^ patches yesterday and I hope to send them out shortly
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jdstrand> tyhicks: fyi, I can give an update
<tyhicks> ok
<tyhicks> jjohansen: hang on a sec
<tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead :)
<jdstrand> I'm sprinting with the ubuntu core team this week
<jdstrand> focusing on snappy, specifically seccomp and review tools
<jdstrand> I think that is it from me
<tyhicks> jdstrand: thanks! no need to stick around here - get back to the sprint :)
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
<jdstrand> hehe, thanks! :)
<jjohansen> I'll be getting back to apparmor upstream cleanup again this week. I also have some stuff to do to get ready for the monthly apparmor meeting tomorrow, and an embargoed issue
<jjohansen> that is it from me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I'm working on the python-cryptography MIR; perhaps the conntrac MIR, perhaps the outstanding openstack update tests. I may also do some smallish apparmor patch reviews as focus/attention span permits
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got Oxide updates to do this week. I'll also be handling an embargoed issue
<chrisccoulson> I'm going to spend some time getting Firefox on precise in shape, ready for the next release in a few weeks
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'll be working though Oxide bugs as usual
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: have you had a chance to get FF building in precise yet? (I don't think you've had much time to work on it)
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, I've got it building fine, but without the hardening flags (hardening-wrapper doesn't work, as the new compiler is installed in /usr/lib/gcc-mozilla/bin/g++)
<tyhicks> ah
<tyhicks> sounds like nice progress :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libnids.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/sanlock.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/krb5.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pdns.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/getmail4.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 13 17:00:11 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-13-16.37.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<twiler> Hello?
<twiler> Anyone there?
<twiler> Hello?
<PaulW2U> hello twiler, were you looking for anything in particular?
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-14
<gaughen> it's me this week running the server mtg!
<smoser> o/
<gaughen> just need a couple more minutes to context switch
<gaughen> (and pull up the irc commands)
<gaughen> the internet is not being kind to me today... super slow
<matsubara> o/
<gaughen> and I know you all are SUPER anxious to get started and talk about all the fabulous server topics
<coreycb> o/
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 14 16:04:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
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<gaughen> okay y'all, let's get going. 1st up is to review action points.
<gaughen> jamespage, the only followup was for you - to provide feedback on bugs 1425288 and 1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425128 in linux (Ubuntu Trusty) "bcache causes task hang with 3.13 kernel" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425128
<ubottu> bug 1425288 in linux (Ubuntu) "kernel NULL pointer dereference during bcache cache_set_flush call" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425288
<gaughen> jamespage, I don't see comments on either bugs from you, so I would say that action point is still needed and this is your reminder to provide feedback on those bugs.
<gaughen> okay, moving on to vivid development
<gaughen> #topic Vivid Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Vivid Development
<jamespage> o/
<gaughen> final freeze is Thursday
<gaughen> and the release is next week
<gaughen> smoser, rbasak, strikov, hallyn_ anything hot that we should discuss leading up to the release?
<hallyn_> there's some lxc issues, but discussion isn' twhat's needed
<gaughen> hallyn_, just fixing?
<hallyn_> yes
<smoser> nice.
<gaughen> okay, then I'll move on
<rbasak> I've also been busy fixing things but nothing to raise.
<gaughen> thanks guys
<strikov> juju-1.23 (most likely) won't be ready until the release; so i'm packaging 1.22.1 for both vivid and trusty
<smoser> utlemming / Odd_bloke moight have a bug in azure cloud-init
<smoser> i'll follow up there.
<gaughen> strikov, I was thinking about that and will send email, but we should talk about what we want to document about juju-1.22 and the local provider
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gaughen> let's look at that link....
<gaughen> rbasak, you're looking at this one right - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mysql-5.6/+bug/1427406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427406 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Vivid) "data corruption on arm64" [Critical,Confirmed]
<gaughen> if I recall correctly this is the one that hallyn_ pulled you, rbasak, into
<rbasak> I don't feel I have any action to take on that bug.
<rbasak> I need a patch that is confirmed to work and not break things on other architectures.
<gaughen> ah I see comment #4 where you said that, rbasak  :-)
<rbasak> Usually this means upstream acceptance for something this complicated.
<hallyn_> looks like dannf proposed a patch,
<gaughen> rbasak, is it worth touching base with dannf to see if he's pushing this along?
<strikov> gaughen: patch is related to reworking locking primitives which means that the fact that it fixes exact issue doesn't mean that it won't break anything else (unexpectedly).
<hallyn_> right
<gaughen> strikov, good point.
<strikov> gaughen: it means that we either need to have good enough test suite or (better) wait for upstreaming the change
<gaughen> strikov, rbasak I'm wondering if I should reach out to Norvald or Ahkil on this
<gaughen> anyhow, let's keep this mtg moving
<rbasak> Thanks strikov - you summarised my concerns well.
<gaughen> smoser, looks like you've got one on the list - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/1427275
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1427275 in vim (Ubuntu Vivid) "clean cloud images of python2" [High,Confirmed]
<gaughen> just reminding you
<rbasak> We can speak to Norvald/Akhil though I'm not sure what their goals are around ppc64.
<gaughen> #subtopic Blueprints
<gaughen> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-server.html
<gaughen> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-server
<gaughen> not much to say here now. If a task isn't done, it's really too late for the release. We should make sure things are cleaned up and I'll work to create new w blueprints so we can start populating for next release
<smoser> gaughen, i'll fix bug. hopefully that will be fixed in 15.10.
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<gaughen> doesn't seem like caribou is online today
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
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<matsubara> I have identified the root cause for most of the smoke test failures and filed bug reports for each one of them. They are bug 1443987, bug 1443988, bug 1443990, bug 1443997 and bug 1443999
<ubottu> bug 1443987 in Ubuntu Test Cases "vivid lamp smoke test failing due to a change in mysql number of tables" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443987
<ubottu> bug 1443988 in Ubuntu Test Cases "Vivid raid1 smoke test fail to mount root partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443988
<ubottu> bug 1443990 in Ubuntu Test Cases "vivid minimal virtual test fails due to a mismatch in the expected installed size and the maximum allowed size" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443990
<ubottu> bug 1443997 in Ubuntu Test Cases "vivid's openssh and sambe smoke tests failing due to missing paramiko package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443997
<ubottu> bug 1443999 in Ubuntu Test Cases "lvm and multi-lvm smoke tests failing to complete install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443999
<gaughen> excellent.
<matsubara> that's all from me.
<gaughen> thanks matsubara
<gaughen> matsubara, any of them particular urgent?
<gaughen> particularly
<rbasak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-test-cases/+bug/1443988 doesn't look good
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1443988 in Ubuntu Test Cases "Vivid raid1 smoke test fail to mount root partition" [Undecided,New]
 * gaughen hopes the caffeine kicks in soon so I can spell
<rbasak> Need to check if that's valid.
<matsubara> I'll be fixing the first 4 ones and proposing the changes to the test cases. The lvm one still needs proper analysis
<smoser> the other 3 are arguably test case failures.
<smoser> their failures suck in that we aren't able to actually verify what they want.
<smoser> but they're not bugs themeselves in anything but the test cases.
<gaughen> good point smoser
<gaughen> okay keeping things moving. great discussion gusy.
<gaughen> guys
<rbasak> smoser: I agree except for maybe 988.
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
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<gaughen> not sure the kernel folks are on today as they are sprinting and I hear the wifi isn't so fabulous
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<gaughen> smoser, you're presenting at a lug this week, aren't you?
<smoser> indeed
<smoser> http://www.mug.org/
<gaughen> oh tonight!
<gaughen> smoser, will it be recorded? I thought a previous one was recorded.
<smoser> yeah, book your flight.
<gaughen> :-)
<smoser> it probalby will be recorde
<gaughen> any other events?
<gaughen> nope. moving on ....
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
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<gaughen> anything else to talk about today?
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
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<gaughen> smoser, you are the chair next week!
<gaughen> same bat time, same bat channel (same time, same day, same irc channel but next week)
<gaughen> thanks all!
<smoser> awesome.
<gaughen> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 14 16:23:32 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-14-16.04.moin.txt
<gaughen> and you know smoser first thing I do is make sure to update the names ;-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-15
<Kilos> greetings all
<toddy> Hi Kilos, do we have a meeting in a few minutes? There are no candidates on the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<Kilos> i dont think so toddy  but im here in any case
<Kilos> hehe
<toddy> ok, mee too
<Kilos> toddy  you must have unread mails and another list to join
<toddy> hmm, I search for it. maybe in the spam box
<toddy> Kilos: can you give me the subject from this mail
<toddy> ?
<Kilos> ive deleted a whole pile but this  Welcome to the "Ubuntu-membership-boards" mailing list
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-04-16
<dholbach> hey hey
<dholbach> #startmeeting CC meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 16:00:51 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | CC meeting | Current topic:
<dholbach> #chair elfy mhall119 cprofitt
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119
<cprofitt> hello dholbach mhall119 elfy
<elfy> o/
<dholbach> who else do we have here? :)
<mhall119> isn't this supposed to be at 1700 UTC, not 1600?
<dholbach> hum...
<cprofitt> mhall119: I think the DST has kicked in
<dholbach> it could be that my calendar played a trick on m
<dholbach> e
<dholbach> but you're right
<dholbach> it should be in an hour
<elfy> and yea ...
<cprofitt> so DST has not kicked in
<dholbach> shall we have the meeting now or reconvene?
<elfy> I did wonder
<elfy> cprofitt: it is 16:00 UTC here
<mhall119> I'm fine with either now or in an hour
<dholbach> it'd probably be only fair to do it in an hour - mhall119, elfy, cprofitt: will you all have time?
<mhall119> yes
<elfy> I'll still be about yes
<cprofitt> I should, but can not make a promise since I am at work
<dholbach> ok, cool
<cprofitt> could get called away
<dholbach> let's try again in 55mins then :)
<dholbach> #endmeeting
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<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 16 16:04:10 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-16-16.00.moin.txt
<elfy> then if there is anyone out there with a question for us - the time is still good for calendar
<dholbach> shall we try again? :-)
<mhall119> sure
<elfy> \o/
<dholbach> mhall119, elfy, cprofitt: anyone else here for the CC meeting? :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 17:00:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chair elfy mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: dholbach elfy mhall119
<dholbach> Do you have any agenda items you'd like to propose?
<elfy> yep
<dholbach> I'd like us to set up a schedule for the catch ups, which should be quick I assume
<elfy> that would be the same one :D
<elfy> and ...ish
<elfy> new teams about
<dholbach> and maybe do a quick review of which boards/councils have members expiring soon
<dholbach> any other items?
<elfy> sort out the next catch ups perhaps
<dholbach> that sounds fair to me :)
<dholbach> #topic Scheduling the next CC catch ups
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scheduling the next CC catch ups
<dholbach> shall we note it all down on http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3?
<elfy> works for me
<dholbach> brilliant
<elfy> mate/edubuntu swap *shrug*
<elfy> though once LTS gets close - we'll want to add them back perhaps
<mhall119> instead of combining Core Apps and Phone, how about having separate check-ins with those teams working on core, desktop and phone?
<elfy> mhall119: make the change :) makes sense
<mhall119> do you think we can do all three in one hour's meeting?
<elfy> mhall119: well
<cprofitt> hello
<dholbach> #chair cprofitt
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119
<dholbach> cprofitt, we're scheduling catch ups for the new cycle: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3
<dholbach> mhall119, I just added a new date at the bottom - feel free to spread teams out if necessary
<elfy> if they are *that* different - split them to different weeks - also gives people who can only drop by irregularly half a chance
<elfy> mhall119: ^^
<dholbach> I'm happy either way - I don't have a strong preference when to have Core Apps vs Phone people there
<mhall119> elfy: they are different teams in Canonical, but they'll probably all have the same issues if any
<elfy> I'd much prefer to give a team the whole half a session each
<elfy> mhall119: that may be so, but
<elfy> the community might have different points - and people are free to ask things here I guessed
<cprofitt> I would prefer to give a half session to each as well.
<elfy> makes sense
<elfy> at the least
<dholbach> I just added more dates
<dholbach> we can spread out if we want
<cprofitt> having too much time is better than not having enough for a team IMHO
<elfy> yep
<dholbach> and we can always wrap early if all is well and there's nothing to talk about :)
<elfy> we can always rethink the cycle after - which IS the pre-LTS one
<elky> Hi. i noticed yesterday that dholbach mailed the irc council about a catchup a while back but i don't think it was confirmed or anything. I'm guessing by that pad that it's not still on?
<mhall119> elfy: my guess is that the community would be more uniform across those three than Canonical employees
<mhall119> but that's just my guess
<dholbach> elky, it was scheduled, but in the end I can't remember if anyone showed up
<elfy> mhall119: that is fine - but I see no real reason to not try it
<dholbach> elky, or one person showed up belated ... or something
<elky> dholbach: well... you tried to schedule one for today and now
<elky> so i showed up now :P
<dholbach> schedule for today?
<dholbach> IRC Council 5th March
<elky> it was an email you sent
<dholbach> oooooooooh!
<elfy> elky: I guess something was lost there, however - we've got time if you want to talk to us
<elky> trying to schedule for now
<dholbach> sorry about that
<dholbach> now I get it
 * elfy always has time for some tabfail sessions :D
<dholbach> we said: "nobody showed up, let's reschedule" and I picked a date
<elfy> but
<dholbach> but failed to update the agenda page
<dholbach> ... and maybe nobody confirmed the date
<elfy> if you want to talk to us now elky - we will :)
<elky> elfy: dholbach: well, basically we're still regrouping. we're currently trying to find a new meeting time that will actually work.
<dholbach> ok... shall we wrap up the scheduling discussion?
<dholbach> then move on to IRC business? :)
<elfy> dholbach: just put it on back burner
<dholbach> elfy, cprofitt, mhall119: any more points on the catch up schedule? or shall I just mail it to the CC later on, so everyone can have a look at it and make final changes before we announce it?
<elfy> elfy: I guess it's been a bit of a *time* over there, I get hints here and there
<elfy> dholbach: how about moving back to it if we've time?
<elky> dholbach: i understand the motivation, i just didn't want you guys to be stood up again if the topic did happen :)
<elky> but i'm here now, so make of that what you will
<elfy> elky: I was not talking to myself but you ^^
<dholbach> elfy, ok... I just felt that we were close to resolving it as far as we can now and could move on if we agreed, but yeah, sure
<elky> elfy: hehe sorry still waking up
<elfy> really should really re-nick as hobgoblin for a while :D
<elky> hehehe
<dholbach> ok....
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the IRC Council
<dholbach> hey elky - thanks a lot for showing up :)
<elky> not a problem
<dholbach> how are you doing? how's life in the IRC world? :)
<elky> so as i said before, we're still regrouping and working out our schedule to fit in with the current members
<dholbach> how far are the members spread out?
<elky> one in finland, the rest of us across the US
<elky> (i'm in the US now)
<elfy> so again the Euro/US bias
<dholbach> oh wow, I had no idea :)
<elky> we have people who can't irc from work though, which complicates things a lot
<elfy> really hard to deal with that I guess
<elky> that's our biggest issue
<elfy> and that for sure
<elfy> which - the work or bias?
<elky> we're considering moving to a weekend meeting, but we're yet to confirm a time
<dholbach> how often are you planning to meet as the IRC Council?
<dholbach> or how often did you meet in the past?
<elky> elfy: the irc restriction at workplaces
<elfy> right
<elky> dholbach: the meeting schedule is monthly, which is why it's taking a while to get something sorted i guess
<elfy> elky: but if the location bias could be looked at later - less of an issue?
<elfy> elky: any reason to have monthly meets?
<elky> elfy: i don't think location bias is one that can be fixed easily.
<elky> elfy: as opposed to?
<dholbach> I'm not sure if it helps, but can "day to day tasks on the IRC Council", "IRC Council meeting times" and "helping out as an IRC member/op/helper" be separated somehow?
<dholbach> a bunch of things could maybe be discussed via mail as well
<elfy> elky: we (FC) set up monthlies, ended up as pointless
<elky> elfy: in that you have no meetings now?
<elfy> we dealt with the immediate issues as and when
<elky> that would be nice, but that wasn't the expectation put on the council in the past
<elfy> then have now moved to quarterly
<dholbach> elfy, I guess it depends on how approachable you as a council or board are... or how well people in your community understand they can contact you
<dholbach> a meeting as "another opportunity" can help, but yeah, it can be pointless too :)
<elfy> elky: well - rules are great in a workplace, but as volunteers the expectation should be that things just woirk
<elfy> dholbach: yea for sure
<elky> elfy: i'm glad to see this shift in attitude :)
<elfy> elky: first shift on CC, years at forum ;)_
<elfy> I am ALWAYS happy to talk to anyone at all
<mhall119> sorry everyone, home-life interruption, I'm back again
<elky> dholbach: in terms of the issues we generally deal with, generally a meeting would be awkward and unfair on someone -- like a public humiliation
<elfy> though if it is one of those 'trolly' things, move it to official
<elfy> elky: the same - we just would not do that (FC)
<elfy> elky: how about the IRCC and FC actaully do that mad thing
<elfy> talk to each other :D
<elky> that'd be awesome indeed
<dholbach> I guess it depends what you need to talk about
<elfy> I am sure we could help each other in how we deal with things
<dholbach> if you want to bring up a process improvement
<elfy> dholbach: things like
<dholbach> or applying as a member
<elfy> do we NEED to meet monthyl
<dholbach> that might be suitable for an IRC Council
<dholbach> meeting
<elfy> well - membership process - I bet we could learn from each other
<dholbach> it could also help to review work items or stuff
<elfy> but the minutae - less so
<elky> dholbach: the stuff we're responsible for, is way too time sensitive to wait a month.,
<elky> or even a week reallt
<dholbach> elky, I wasn't trying to say that you should wait until the next meeting
<elfy> more a sort of 'well how do you as a group work?  thing
<elfy> elky: exactly - we are lucky
<elfy> we get a day(ish)
<dholbach> sometimes it helps to make an appointment, come together as a group and take time to discuss something
<dholbach> (outside the day to day business)
<elfy> dholbach: it really does not work like that - sorry ;)
<dholbach> but I'm not trying to impose
<mhall119> especially if you spend the previous week/month jotting down topics in an agenda
<elky> dholbach: we haven't needed to do that in the past few months, but yes that has happened in the past.
<dholbach> right
<elfy> elky: I'll mail you with the FC hat
<elky> elfy: cool
<dholbach> and apart from meeting times... how are things going there? :)
<elfy> heh
<elky> relatively drama free so far this year
<elfy> \o/
<elky> which is a nice change of pace. last year burned a councillor or two out, so yes.
<dholbach> do you have enough helpers in the channels?
<Pici> Sorry I'm late, work stuff. (reads scrollback quickly)
<elfy> hi Pici
<elky> we seem to be ok at the moment, but i believe we have some applications to look at anyway
<elfy> that's great
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> how about people who applied as Ubuntu members through IRC contributions?
<mhall119> elfy: is there any particular change that you think contributed to this being a drama-free year?
<mhall119> something we can maybe roll out to other parts of the community
<dholbach> I'm asking because we noticed in other teams that there's a lot of people who could apply, but didn't :)
<elfy> \o/ I think that ^^ was for elky :D
<elky> mhall119: no, last year was quite exceptional. i don't recommend having that drama so that the next year is an improvement
<elfy> dholbach: we see the same thing
<mhall119> elky: yes, this elfy/elky thing is killing my brain
<elky> :D
<elfy> :D
<elfy> who said that !!!
<dholbach> ouch :)
<elky> we break brains in #xubuntu* all the timne
<elfy> annnnnnnnd ....
<elfy> you owe me a clean screen ...
<elky> haha
<cprofitt> mhall119: you can't tell the difference bewtween and elf and an alk?
<cprofitt> elk?
<elky> dholbach: i can't remember the last time someone applied through the ircc for membership, but it's a small team in comparison to even some loco teams
<dholbach> right
<mhall119> cprofitt: I don't think I've every seen either, to be honest
<cprofitt> lol
<Pici> We have a lot of people seeking help pass through, but a smaller community of helpers.
<dholbach> I think we should all try to encourage folks who haven't applied yet :)
<elfy> hah
<cprofitt> the forums had to work at having people apply via the forums for Ubuntu membership
<dholbach> I should add a post-it note to my laptop screen about that
<cprofitt> do IRC folks know that it is a potential route?
<elfy> dholbach: seriously - for sure - supporters deserve membership
<elky> yes
<dholbach> cprofitt, there's a process and it's documented on the wiki, but that probably doesn't answer your question :)
<elky> they do know. most of the irc team are members as far as i know
<mhall119> elky: how are they told about it?
<dholbach> elky, that's good to hear :)
<elfy> elky: we kind of did a bit more over forum side
<elfy> I'l try and summarise the whole 'how we do it'
<elky> elfy: at one point, the irc team required membership to be op, so i think there was a difference in the population there
<elfy> yea
<Pici> Usually it comes up because someone notices that they aren't a member, and then the suggestion to become one goes on and then we can initiate the process.
<cprofitt> dholbach: the process being documented is a good start, but I know the forums had to really encourage people to get the process started.
<dholbach> yeah
<elfy> I think, and this might be up for debate
<elfy> that criteria needs to at least 'look' or 'read' easier
<elfy> many people have said to me they would 'fail'
<elfy> their words
<Pici> :/
<elky> guys, i need to go of and do something else now, can we wrap this topic? or pici can take over?
<elfy> elky: go do life stuff - thanks
<elky> thanks guys, one less thing on the todo list :)
<elfy> I will be in contact withe the IRCC
<dholbach> cool
<elfy> as FC
<Pici> Okay :)
<dholbach> is there anything the IRC Council could generally need help with? or anything the CC could do?
<elfy> but yea Pici :/
<elfy> people should not feel that way
<Pici> dholbach: I'm not sure we need anything as of yet.  Like elky said, the drama has been very low recently.
<dholbach> excellent - thanks a lot for all your hard work!
<dholbach> mhall119 is going to be in touch with you quite soon again I guess :)
<dholbach> or did you guys talk about UOS channels already? :)
<mhall119> dholbach: I haven't, I don't know which of us was tasked with getting UOS channels setup
<Pici> Sounds like it was you ;)
<dholbach> I can't remember either - I guess we're going to figure it out
<Pici> Just poke us whenever you're ready and we'll do what needs to be done
<dholbach> <3
<dholbach> cprofitt, elfy, mhall119: do you have any more questions for Pici and the IRC folks? :)
<mhall119> nope, it sounds like things are going well which is an improvement from before
<elfy> none yet
<mhall119> so I'm quite happy
<Pici> yay
<elfy> I will do as I said and mail you as FC hat - with what we do and how
<dholbach> brilliant
<dholbach> thanks a lot Pici and elky! :)
<Pici> np :)
<elfy> I would love for the IRCC to say some "try this one ..."
<dholbach> elfy, regarding the catch-up schedule... did you have anything else you wanted to talk about or shall I send it out for a sanity check of the rest of the gang as a next step?
<elfy> anyway - thanks elky Pici
<elfy> dholbach: send it to list, but was mostly about making sure no-shows had reason
<elfy> and people like Mate - new - were added in
<elfy> good to go here
<dholbach> elfy, erm... do you mean by "no-shows had reason" checking if the teams excused themselves from the meetings?
<mhall119> thanks elky and Pici for coming
<dholbach> my brain is a bit slow at processing English today it seems
<dholbach> if all's well, I'll just mail out the schedule in a bit :)
<mhall119> dholbach: Texas accents have that affect
<dholbach> jetlag too! :)
<dholbach> I'd be happy to look over the expiry dates of all councils/boards again as well to help with the planning
<dholbach> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business
<elfy> dholbach: yea I did :)
<dholbach> go ahead
<elfy> or rather - they might be LTS only
<elfy> dholbach: I've got time tomorrow to at least try and contact edubuntu etc
<dholbach> cool
<elfy> unless you mean mail schedule to CC to double check
<elfy> in which case - go ahead
<dholbach> oh... I just sent it over for review
<dholbach> :)
<elfy> yep, just got it :D
<elfy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 16 17:57:49 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-16-17.00.moin.txt
<elfy> then :)
<dholbach> excellent!
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
<mhall119> thanks dholbach
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-18
<tyhicks> hello
<chrisccoulson> hi
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 18 16:34:00 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead and we'll circle back to Jamie
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just published the samba and optipng updates
<mdeslaur> and am working on php5 updates
<mdeslaur> that's it, sbeattie you're it
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I'm currently (still) testing glibc updates
<sbeattie> I have some apparmor things to do as well, plus the usual kernel cve triage bits
<sbeattie> I may try to pick up another update or two, as we have a bit of a backlog.
<sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> sbeattie: x+1 will open next week so we need to be ready for PIE by default
<sbeattie> right
<tyhicks> sbeattie: as much as I agree that picking up an update is needed, it may be higher prio to focus on the various debdiffs
<sbeattie> okay
<jdstrand> sorry, got pulled aside
<tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead
<jdstrand> most of my week is going to be dealing with documentation updates for snappy on 16.04, helping the sdoc guys on policy/interfaces, testing snappy interfaces myself and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> oh, and this is a short week for me
<jdstrand> I'll be off tomorrow
<jdstrand> (but back wed)
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I'm currently making progress on the ecryptfs maintenance todos that I've been mentioning the last few weeks
<tyhicks> I've built up quite an email backlog and need to get through some of that before release
<tyhicks> if I have time, I'd like to help out with code reviews or maybe pick up an update
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on squashing more apparmor bugs this week
<jjohansen> it seems I need to revisit the loading bug that I thought to have finally tracked down as cboltz reports the fix isn't working for him
<jjohansen> hrmmm, I think that is it for me, unless I am given different direction
<tyhicks> sounds about right to me
<tyhicks> sarnold: go ahead
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week, but I think I may neglect it today and maybe tomorrow to focus on MIRs instead -- it'd be nice to get through as many as we can before release, I think, and it's not like we have a shortage of issues to work n
<tyhicks> I think that's a good idea
<sarnold> the apparmor community has also been on fire with patches the last few weeks, it'd be fun if that continues, so i'll try to work in some smaller/obvious reviews if I can
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got an Oxide update to get out this week. I'm also expecting Chromium at some point too
<chrisccoulson> And a Firefox update
<chrisccoulson> I also need to update the Firefox packaging for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1256955 so that we can produce builds for the next release (next week)
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 1256955 in Release Automation "provide ability to correlate release promotion releases with their respective l10n changeset" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<chrisccoulson> I plan to spend some time adding a test shell to Oxide this week (see the last sentence of the commit message for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/1447)
<chrisccoulson> But that does require some other re-architecting first
<tyhicks> oof
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: expect to get to any oxide development items?
<chrisccoulson> I also plan to have a look at bug 1570996, to try to figure out if we can make shutdown a bit more reliable (it's not the only shutdown issue we have)
<ubottu> bug 1570996 in Oxide "g_all_contexts.Get().size() == static_cast<size_t>(0) (1 vs. 0)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570996
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, I hope so
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/archmage.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cabextract.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/filezilla.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/insighttoolkit4.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qpid-python.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 18 16:59:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-18-16.34.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<denlud> Hey whats up?
<denlud> What are u doing?
<nacc> denlud: it's not appropriate to randomly test your client or setup with all channels, I believe FreeNode provides a #test channel for that
<denlud> Yea but then i cant be sure, that ubuntu-meeting is also working :D
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-19
<denlud> I took off work tomorrow to check if all channels are working again with ubuntu 16.04
<hallyn> \o
<jgrimm> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<nacc> o/
<hallyn> hey everyone.  it's 16:00, let's get started :)
<hallyn> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 19 16:00:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is hallyn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<hallyn> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn> None :)
<hallyn> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<matsubara> o/
<hallyn> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<hallyn> #subtopic Release Bugs
<hallyn> no wait,
<hallyn> so the release team is currently physically co-located making that xenial magic happen,
<hallyn> anything we need to discuss regarding that?
<hallyn> i'll take that as no, let' sgo on to release bugs,
<hallyn> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> not that i'm aware of
<hallyn> kewl
 * hallyn waiting for htat link to load...
<hallyn> all i see is '38 bugs', but it won't show them to me,
<hallyn> jgrimm: (since i can't see them yet) any particularly concerning bugs on that list?
<jgrimm> looking
<hallyn> finally loaded, i see 5 high/triaged
<nacc> jgrimm: shoudl the mysql-5.6 bug not be in that list? since 5.6 is in universe now?
<hallyn> one of those is actually fix-released
<nacc> or is it to track if 5.7 has the same issue?
<hallyn> that list seems to be out of date
<rbasak> All 5.6 bugs should probably be moved to 5.7 at some point.
<nacc> (LP: #1455818)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1455818 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Wily) "mysql-server-5.6.postrm fails when /usr/share/mysql-common/configure-symlinks doesn't exist" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455818
<nacc> rbasak: ack, that's what i was wondering
<rbasak> That's an SRU only I think, isn't it?
<jgrimm> right
<hallyn> looks like bug 1398999 should be fix-committed for nova
<ubottu> bug 1398999 in nova (Ubuntu Wily) "Block migrate with attached volumes copies volumes to themselves" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398999
<nacc> should it have [SRU] to document that, rbasak ?
<hallyn> but i don't know how they handle their bugs, so...
<rbasak> nacc: if you like.
<cpaelzer> in the list is one I looked at before - the reported failed to reports what I asked for but anybody with an AMD FX-* cpu could take a short look at bug 1561019 to make sure it isn't critical in any way
<ubottu> bug 1561019 in libvirt (Ubuntu Wily) "copied cpu flags don't match host cpu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561019
<rbasak> nacc: the metadata makes it clear if you look at the bug, but I appreciate [SRU] may be helpful to see immediately in a report.
<nacc> rbasak: ack, updated
<nacc> well, that brings up another question about this list, shouldn't we only be concerned about xenial release bugs?
<hallyn> cpaelzer: is that one amd-specific?
<cpaelzer> well, the reporter says cpu flags are missing
<cpaelzer> it works for me on my cpu
<rbasak> Yeah that's one of the issues with that list, IMHO. Milestones would work better since they can more easily be moved or dropped as appropriate.
<cpaelzer> and he reported it explicitly as "on AMD FX-8350"
<cpaelzer> hallyn: so the confirmation needed would be AMD specific
<nacc> rbasak: ack, thanks
<hallyn> cpaelzer: all right i put tha ton my list for later today, let' smove on
<cpaelzer> hallyn: thanks
<hallyn> any other bugs critical to discuss?
<hallyn> if not, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<hallyn> hey caribou
<hallyn> paging caribou,
<hallyn> \o happy tuesday :)  moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<hallyn> hey matsubara
<matsubara> hallyn, nothing to report
<hallyn> that's what i love to hear,
<hallyn> thanks, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> No big badaboom as of yet. Watching the release train approach...
<hallyn> i hear it's at the station, boarding,
<hallyn> thx, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<hallyn> contaienrcon deadline is actually coming up i think,
<hallyn> (for toronto)
<hallyn> anything else server-related?
<hallyn> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> openstack summit of course is coming up,
<hallyn> bunch of lucky folks visiting lovely austin tx,
<hallyn> any other team related events?
<hallyn> ok, moving on,
<hallyn> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<teward> nginx may be getting an update today, if infinity approves it (bugfixes whoohoo!)
<hallyn> in xenial?
<teward> and unrelated: every server-related summit, conference, etc. seems to be in Austin this year (nginx.conf is one, later this year, which I may be attending)
<teward> hallyn: yes - infinity is already in the loop on this
 * teward briefed him prior to FinalFreeze
<hallyn> my nefarious machinations are unrelated to that (austin) tidbit, fwiw
<teward> yep
<hallyn> cool
<teward> and that's all from me., apologies for being late, some non-ubuntu security things needed my attention
<hallyn> congratulations, that's quite a feat, rough week to get something included :)
<teward> :P
<hallyn> ok, so i think we're done,
<hallyn> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<teward> if it doesn't land today due to FInal, it's a 0-day SRU, but we're seeing some HTTP/2 stuff that needs to land
 * teward is done :)
<hallyn> next meeting will be on April 26, 16:00 utc.
<hallyn> i'm not sure whether arosales or rbasak will be chairing
<hallyn> teward: yup sounds important :)
<hallyn> thanks everyone!
<hallyn> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 16:17:55 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-04-19-16.00.moin.txt
<nacc> hallyn: thanks!
<teward> thanks, hallyn.  And sorry for my horrid lateness to the meeting.
<hallyn> np!
<hallyn> \o
<cpaelzer> \o
<arosales> thanks hallyn
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-20
<aldomann_> is anyone there?
<Inoki> aldomann2: can you read this? (testing, b/c he couldn't see anyone in the room)
<aldomann2> yep, both on Polari and the webchat
<Inoki> aldomann2: roger that
<elacheche> aldomann2: aldomann_ here?
<aldomann_> yep, I'm here
<elacheche> Anyone (else) from the Membership board talked to you?
<aldomann_> I contacted popey a few minutes ago and it seems everyone forgot about this meeting
<elacheche> I think that everyone is AFK.. I planned to be in time using my mobile phone, but the battey failled.. I am so sorry :/
<elacheche> popey: still here?
<popey> sorry, am working
<elacheche> OK, aldomann_ , We don't have enough quorum, so I guess that we have 2 options.. 1st, I ask the board to vote via our private ML.. Or if you don't like that, you can change your application to the next night meeting :/
<aldomann_> the night meeting is today? I mean the one at 18UTC?
<elacheche> We're sorry aldomann_, but almost every board member is @work at this time :/ (including myself) which makes hard to make it :/
<elacheche> aldomann_: We don't have a 18UTC meeting, only 20 & 22 UTC.. Those 2 will be for the 5th May
<aldomann_> that sounds about right; I'll update the wiki page
<elacheche> aldomann_: thank you, I'm sorry again about this situation.. :/
<aldomann_> no problem, real life comes first
<elacheche> thanks
<Kilos> oops
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-04-21
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Uh oh, forgot, no meeting today due to release ;)
<teward> sil2100: :P
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, mhall119, I have a calendar entry for a Community Catchup meeting.
<flexiondotorg> Is that still going ahead?
<dholbach> yes, but it's going to be in 1h from now
<dholbach> no sure if DST changes played a trick on us, but it's at 17 UTC
<flexiondotorg> OK.
<flexiondotorg> Timing might be tricky for me.
<dholbach> ok... if it doesn't work out, we might have to reschedule then
<dholbach> it looks like a bunch of CC people are unavailable too... I'm still figuring out who's going to be there
<dholbach> I guess it was a bit of an oversight to do have the meeting on release day
<dholbach> I'll keep you all posted
<dholbach> flexiondotorg, don't feel bad if you can't make it
<flexiondotorg> dholbach, Am I schedule for 30mins? First half of the hour or second half of the hour?
<dholbach> I think we're flexible
<dholbach> I'll try to find out who's available and let you know in a few
<dholbach> sorry for the confusion in any case
<dholbach> ok, I asked around basically everyone is gone today (sgclark, hggdh, czajkowski, mhall119, belkinsa, haven't heard from sabdfl or marcoceppi)
<dholbach> let's move it
<dholbach> sorry about that
<teward> dholbach: release days are crazy aren't they :)
<dholbach> but: happy release day - it looks like ubuntu.com was updated!
<teward> dholbach: and the announcement went out too!  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2016-April/000207.html
<dholbach> <3
<dholbach> congratulations and thanks a lot everyone for your hard work
<dholbach> another LTS out the door :-D
<dholbach> we'll follow up over email
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-17
<juang> hello
<pavlos_> hi ... we use ubuntu-us-az for our Sunday night meetings but the meetingology bot is stuck and keeps telling us the meeting is in progress. Is there a way to reset the bot for our channel?
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 17 16:30:38 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
 * sbeattie waves
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<tyhicks> sbeattie: go ahead and we'll circle back to jdstrand
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I'm here, sorry
<sbeattie> I'm about to publish bind9 updates
<sbeattie> After that, I'll be going down the list of needed updates.
<sbeattie> I also have a couple of apparmor patches to look at.
<sbeattie> That's likely my week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: go ahead.
<tyhicks> thanks
<jdstrand> - continue on the gnome3/wayland interfaces
<jdstrand> - snappy PRs, store reviews, etc
<jdstrand> - seccomp arg filtering is no longer blocked, so go through existing PRs and bring up to date and pick the work back up
<jdstrand> - miscellaneous policy updates for bug fixes
<jdstrand> - update the pam apparmor/stacking documentation as have time
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> (there's a tnef update in debian with regression fixes so I'm in the middle of fake syncing those updates)
<tyhicks> I'm finalizing all the details, processes, etc., for ESM
<tyhicks> I hope to finish and submit the seccomp kernel patches this week
<tyhicks> and I have sprint prep to do
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am still working on upstreaming apparmor, specificially this week I am sending up patches around the securityfs filesystem interface for RFC
<jjohansen> and making any changes, needed there
<tyhicks> was anything able to go up for 4.12?
<jjohansen> a set of bug fixes went into 4.12
<tyhicks> nice
<jjohansen> I also have a couple bug reports to triage, and the next pull request to finish getting together
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me
<jjohansen> ratliff: you are up
<ratliff> I am on CVE triage this week
<ratliff> I have sprint prep work to do.
<ratliff> sarnold reviewed the notification script so I'm making a few changes to it.
<ratliff> I will do vivid updates after that.
<ratliff> back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/eom.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-opt.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-moment.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ganglia.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gradle.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 17 16:45:03 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-17-16.30.moin.txt
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-18
<rharper> o/
<rbasak> o/
<caribou> \o
<powersj> o/
<smb> o/
<rharper> waiting a minute more for folks to join
<nacc> o/
<rharper> ok ,getting started
<rharper> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr 18 16:01:30 2017 UTC.  The chair is rharper. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rharper> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> o/
<dpb1> hola
<rharper> hey, just getting started, reviewing previous meeting topics
<rharper> previous item: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<rharper> do we need to still carry that?
<cpaelzer> yes, no changes afaik
<rharper> #action rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has (carried over)
<rharper> smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify)
<smoser> i'll go put something there.
<rharper> #ACTION smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser to write a release notes entry on cloud-init (ds-identify) (carried over)
<rharper> nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot
<rbasak> draft mysql triage> carry over again please
<rharper> carry over?
<nacc> rharper: yep
<rbasak> Oh, you did that, thanks.
<rharper> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carry over)
<rharper> nacc: server guide?
<nacc> rharper: still needed to
<nacc> although serverguide isn't doing a release for this cycle, iirc
<rharper> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carry over)
<rharper> rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init
<rharper> #action rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carry over)
<rharper> though I did write up docs for it in cloud-init
<rharper> #link https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/321397
<rharper> #action rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carry over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carry over)
<rharper> ok, that's all the previous actions
<rharper> next up is AA Release, did we get a ReleaseSchedule yet ?
<nacc> not afaik
<rharper> #info AA has not opened up yet, so we dont yet have a ReleaseSchedule link
<rharper> #topic AA Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: AA Development
<rharper> #info AA has not opened up yet, so we dont yet have a ReleaseSchedule link
<rharper> #subtopic blueprints
<rharper> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<nacc> talked to ondrej, we'll move to php7.1 in 17.10
<rharper> we should start updating that with items
<nacc> and then php7.2 probably in 18.04
<nacc> (that's sort of in the blueprint)
<rharper> #info planning for php7.1 in 17.10, and php7.2 for 18.04
<rharper> any other known planning items?  if not already added, please update blueprint  as you know
<rharper> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rharper> any critical zesty bugs ?
<nacc> i think the nm one is the big one
<nacc> not really server
<rharper> bug link ?
<nacc> looking
<nacc> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1682499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1682499 in systemd (Ubuntu Zesty) "disable dnssec" [High,Confirmed]
<nacc> which isn't nm, i guess, systemd
<nacc> but nm used systemd, and that's where people were hitting it
<nacc> (systemd-networkd i think)
<nacc> so i imagine server would also be affected
<nacc> i think this is high priority but probablya n upstream issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-iscsi/+bug/1615694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1615694 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu) "[860730] Host experiencing constant session termination and recreation while using jumbo frames" [High,Triaged]
<rharper> nacc: thanks
<rharper> any other items related to zesty ?
<rharper> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads
<rharper> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rharper> there are quite a few cloud-init sru's in-flight, smoser
<rharper> smoser: updates there?  mostly done? a lot left?
<smoser> all but 1 really is eitehr verification done or just about
<nacc> nice
<rharper> #info cloud-init SRU mostly done, one or two left
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week completed final Zesty server ISO testing, cloud-init bug triage, updated a few merge requests, lots of server team bug triage, and updated docs on server QA.
<rharper> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> This week qemu huge pages testing, few more doc updates, work on jenkins slaves, and bug day work. For bugs I'll update my SRUs and then continue focus on cloud-init and want to look at openvpn.
<powersj> FYI did have to reboot torkoal this morning after it seemed to go unresponsive
<cpaelzer> powersj: any huge page testing on the bug we are currently on or in general?
<rharper> powersj: hopefully not huge page related =/
<powersj> cpaelzer: for ericson
<cpaelzer> ok different case
<cpaelzer> thanks
<rharper> anything else for powersj ?
<powersj> cpaelzer: we should look at virt tests btw
<rharper> powersj: cpaelzer and I had a discussion this morning about bring in some more dpdk related testing;
<cpaelzer> what happened there they were all green
<powersj> ok
<powersj> yeah... not so green anymore
<powersj> Looks like a test issue, but I wasn't sure where to start on fixing those
<cpaelzer> powersj: I will look at it, but more likely "my" tomorrow
<powersj> no rush :)
<rharper> #info virt tests on jenkins not green anymore, cpaelzer to look at issues
<rharper> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing to report. Not much changed since the release last week (at least kernel-wise). Is there anything anybody wants to bring up?
<rharper> yes ,one thing
<rharper> Bug 1682456
<ubottu> bug 1682456 in linux (Ubuntu Xenial) "md devices may leave remnants in /sys/class/block after removal" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682456
<rharper> fun with md driver w.r.t references on devices leaving stuff in sysfs ... appears to be known issue upstream;
<rharper> it's not fatal (that is, you can still create new md devices after stopping them) but somethings not quite right
<smb> rharper, ok, yeah. I'll keep an eye on that (and upstream)
<rharper> smb: thanks, I'm waiting on a zesty kernel with the upstream bits; I can easily recreate (the bug also has reproduce instructions)
<rharper> anything else for smb ?
<rharper> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rharper> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<rharper> #info no upcoming CfPs were mentioned.
<rharper> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rharper> anyone going to events soon ?
<caribou> Since this is most probably my last meeting as part of the STS sustaining engineering team, I will ask slashd to take over responsabilities for the future meetings
<caribou> please update the meeting template accordingly
<rharper> caribou: ack; thanks for all of your help!
<rharper> #info no server team events mentioned
<rharper> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> #info caribou transitioned STS reporting to slashd for future meetings
<rharper> #action rharper to update meeting template (caribou -> slashd)
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper to update meeting template (caribou -> slashd)
<rharper> any thing else to discuss ?
<rharper> #info no updates
<rharper> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rharper> next meeting will be a week from now minus 31 minutes; chair will be powersj
<rharper> #info next meeting will be a week from now minus 31 minutes; chair will be powersj
<powersj> woohoo!
<rharper> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr 18 16:32:14 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-18-16.01.moin.txt
<powersj> rharper: thx
<rharper> And on that note...
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-19
<elacheche> aisrael: Hey there!
<aisrael> elacheche, Hello!
<elacheche> We wait for a 10 min or so, we need to have at least 4 members from the membership board to start the meeting.. Is that OK for you?
<aisrael> elacheche, Absolutely.
<elacheche> Hey again aisrael
<aisrael> Hey elacheche
<elacheche> Sorry to announce this, but, I think no one else from the membership board will show up.. Would you like to change the meeting to the next meeting? the night one maybe? If not, as it is our foult to not show up, we can discuss your application in our ML, and we'll announce the result publically when a decision is made..
<aisrael> elacheche, no worries. I can change it to the next meeting, if that's easier.
<elacheche> If you can't attend a 20UTC or 22UTC meeting I can just start a discussion on the ML about your application..
<aisrael> elacheche, I can attend either of those. I'll move my name to the 20UTC slot. Thanks!
<elacheche> Thank you aisrael and sorry again..
<aisrael> elacheche, not a problem!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-04-20
<sil2100> o/
 * slangasek waves
<Atomic_Aadn5> o/
<xnox> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<Atomic_Aadn5> o/
<Atomic_Aadn5> o/
<infinity> \o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 20 15:04:14 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint)mwhudson infinity xnox slangasek rbalint sil2100 tdaitx bdmurray cyphermox doko
<slangasek> mwhudson infinity xnox slangasek rbalint sil2100 tdaitx bdmurray cyphermox doko
<xnox> doko wins.... but he is not here anyway
<slangasek> infinity:
<infinity> Preparing for archive opening:
<infinity>  - dpkg merge, with lots of back and forth with guillem on buildflags and ABI detection
<infinity>  - debhelper merge, with much discussion of transitional ddebs
<infinity>  - base-files merge
<infinity>  - nagging Mark (Artful Aardvark)
<infinity> (done)
<xnox> Prepared systemd SRU, and now verified remaining bugs
<xnox> Provided cloud image support for onmetal
<xnox> Currently debugging cloud-init not handling vlans on top of a bond well
<xnox> s390x d-i bug reports triange (no criticals so far, need aa to start fixing them)
<xnox> Uploaded SRU for open-vm-tools, to build VGAuth in main
<xnox> Short week due to 2 bank holidays due to resurrection
<xnox> infinity is not certain which weekend mark was going to take to read dictionary and announce the new code name.
<xnox> ..
<tdaitx> I'm late, sorry, please let me know when I should paste my status ;-)
<cyphermox> tdaitx: after sil2100
<sil2100> tdaitx: you're going after me ;)
<tdaitx> cyphermox, sil2100 tks! =)
<slangasek>  * happy release!
<slangasek>  * processing SRUs
<slangasek>  * subiquity image spins
<slangasek>  * image minimization
<slangasek> (done)
<Atomic_Aadn5> i'll send email, can't type much on phone :-(
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Last week: helping out with the release + kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - Was off Friday and Monday
<sil2100> - SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Assign bug tasks cleanup
<sil2100> - Submitting fixes for the tarball cache modification to kernel-sru-review
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Looking into the state of bugs
<sil2100>   * Picking up the image manifest generation bug, preparing branch with fixes - PR incoming
<sil2100>   * Started work on the i18n with flufl.i18n
<sil2100> - Prepared and tested pre-tested walinuxagent 2.2.9 - waiting for cloud image testing help
<sil2100> - Started work on the packaging for uvp-monitor, testing t-systems access
<sil2100> - Looking into the future of Bileto
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> Short week: out on Friday (holiday) and Monday (sick), so-so Tuesday (recovering)
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * aggregatting results
<tdaitx>   * preparing for certification
<tdaitx>   * rebuild containers and retesting to make sure results are reproducible
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK 8
<tdaitx>   * updated package & applied security patches
<tdaitx>   * 8u131 was out on Wednesday, while testing the sec upd
<tdaitx>   * packaged 8u131 + aarch64 sync and went on to test
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * congrats on the release!
<tdaitx> (done)
<xnox> we have openjdk 9 in the archive too? is it released at all, or still in development?
<tdaitx> xnox, not yet released, but it is in the archive
<xnox> ah, nice.
<slangasek> bdmurray is off today
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - preparing the subiquity preview
<cyphermox> - debugging grub2 installing fallback in --removable (it should not) (bug LP: #1684341)
<cyphermox> - SRU for NetworkManager upgrade issues (missing netplan override)
<cyphermox> - getting more info on shim installs on UEFI-but-not-quite-UEFI.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1684341 in grub2 (Ubuntu Zesty) "EFI fallback binary should only be installed in force-extra-removable" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1684341
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> and doko is also off today
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> seems not :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<infinity> Yeah, why is doko off?  Did he break a hip?
<xnox> infinity, i was guessing that he is somewhere in hymalyas breaking the hip?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 20 15:21:00 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-04-20-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks folks
<tdaitx> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-16
<blahdeblah> Hi, any loco council members present?
<blahdeblah> I'm on the Canonical SRE team and we need to retire/move/upgrade the site of an inactive LoCo Team, and I've been unsuccessful so far in making contact with any of the nominated team members.
<blahdeblah> Just want to know if you have a standard process for dealing with this.
<tsimonq2> wxl: Around? ^
<blahdeblah> thanks tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> Oh, didn't know he wasn't a member of the LoCo Council anymore... hm
<tsimonq2> blahdeblah: np
<tsimonq2> Ah, here we go:
<tsimonq2> You can reach the council via mail: loco-council<at>lists.ubuntu.com
<tsimonq2> blahdeblah: I'd try that ^^^^
<blahdeblah> will do - thanks
<tsimonq2> np
<mdeslaur> \o
<ratliff> o/
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr 16 16:32:21 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> Thanks to James Cowgill (jcowgill) for providing a debdiff for xenial for ffmpeg (LP: #1697785)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697785 in ffmpeg (Ubuntu Xenial) "Update to 2.8.14 in Xenial" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697785
<ratliff> Thanks to Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) providing debdiffs for trusty-artful for calibre (LP: #1758699)!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1758699 in calibre (Ubuntu Artful) "[CVE] JavaScript in a book can access local files using XMLHttpRequest" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1758699
<ratliff> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thank you!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> Jamie's off today so, mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I just published some tasty perl updates
<mdeslaur> and I'm trying to get some things migrated in bionic
<mdeslaur> that's about it, I need to pick something from the cve list
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I'm still working on my gcc-4.6 retpoline backport
<sbeattie> I have some kernel cve triage tasks to do
<sbeattie> And I need to pick something off the cve list
<sbeattie> That's probably the highlights for my week
<sbeattie> jjohansen: I think you're next?
<jjohansen> ah does that mean I don't get to jump in at the end again :)
<sbeattie> I'll figure out our team order eventually.
<jjohansen> so this week I am
<jjohansen> working with cboltz on finish up 2.13 bug fixes and problems he is having around packaging
<jjohansen> coordinate with cboltz on opensuse presentation proposals, and get those submitted
<jjohansen> merge rc1 into apparmor-next and then drop on the next set of patches targeted for 4.18
<jjohansen> do follow-up on on last weeks bugs 1750594, 1679704
<ubottu> bug 1750594 in AppArmor "Eventual OOM with profile reloads" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1750594
<ubottu> bug 1679704 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "libvirt profile is blocking global setrlimit despite having no rlimit rule" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1679704
<jjohansen> do some revisions for policy hashing and policy versioning patching so I can get those up as wip: merge requests
<jjohansen> proper upstreamable fix for 1750594 to replace the single case fix being used as a short term work around
<jjohansen> finish up further rlimit fixes for bugs discovered while working on 1679704
<jjohansen> continue work on my LSM stacking review for Casey
<jjohansen> work on prompting prototype
<jjohansen> uhmm I think that is it for /me
<sbeattie> jjohansen: let me know if I can help on the packaging front
<ratliff> not sure that you left time to sleep, jjohansen
<jjohansen> sbeattie: ack
<jjohansen> ratliff: oh right, I need to add the critical item of track down time to sleep
<ratliff> I haven't seen sarnold yet this morning, so chrisccoulson you go next
<leosilva> he just say morning right now :)
<ratliff> yeah, I spoke to soon
<sarnold> :)
<ratliff> sarnold: you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, working down the mirs
<sarnold> I'm on socat now
<chrisccoulson> oh, I did start typing :)
<sarnold> sorry chrisccoulson :(
<sarnold> socat might finish today or tomorrow, if there's any others needing bumping up to the head of the queue let me know ..
<sarnold> that's it
<chrisccoulson> I'm still working on rust 1.25 updates. Currently 73 tests fail across armhf and arm64 because the tests appear to crash, so I'll be spending time trying to figure that out
<chrisccoulson> I'd like to pretend I'll have some time left over to do something useful, but I have a feeling this is going to end up wasting another week
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'll check around, but I haven't received any other requests so far, sarnold
<ratliff> good luck, chrisccoulson
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week.
<ratliff> I have sprint prep and other internal work including starting a white paper.
<ratliff> I have a couple more kpi scripts to clean up and check in, but the dashboard is full again.
<ratliff> leosilva: on to you
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week :)
<leosilva> I'm did an USN for patch-esm this morning
<leosilva> I'm finally finished ruby updates and I'm publishing it right now *the crow says: yeahhhhh*
<leosilva> other than that I'll keep my hunting to get something from cve-list
<leosilva> it's back to you ratliff
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tsimonq2> Thanks for the mention. :)
<ratliff> thanks for the debdiffs!
<ratliff> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Apr 16 16:46:35 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-16-16.32.moin.txt
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<mdeslaur> thanks ratliff!
<tsimonq2> Thanks ratliff!
<ratliff> :)
<leosilva> tks ratliff
<jjohansen> thanks ratliff
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-19
<tribaal> o/
<sil2100> o/ (a few minutes too early for waving!)
<xnox> ooooh
<juliank> \o\
<juliank> /o/
<juliank> \o/
 * slangasek waves
<philroche> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 19 15:01:07 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<gaughen> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<slangasek> bdmurray mwhudson juliank slangasek rcj infinity sil2100 Odd_Bloke fginther philroche rbalint xnox tdaitx cyphermox doko tribaal
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding removing core files from swift
<bdmurray> found more bugs indicating issues with ubiquity upgrade (LP: #1152399)
<bdmurray> committed a bug pattern regarding the â issue
<bdmurray> submitted ubiquity MP re dropping of upgrade option (LP: #1756862)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1152399 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity upgrade option failed due to being unable to resolve the upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1152399
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1756862 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "UIFE - remove ubiquity upgrade option" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756862
<bdmurray> retraced an apt apport crash report which was directly upload to LP ð
<bdmurray> sent an email to ubuntu-devel re gnome-software and metapackages
<bdmurray> reviewed mwhudson's subiquity install docs
<bdmurray> investigation into failed queue retracer backlog
<bdmurray> discovered the failed queue retracers aren't retracing the failed queueâ¼
<bdmurray> resurrected apport for trusty in my PPA to fix apport's autopkgtests
<bdmurray> investigation into meta-release file cacheing and how it might go bad
<bdmurray> emailed doc team and ubuntu quality regarding removal of ubiquity upgrade option
<bdmurray> uploaded avahi SRU for LP: #1760128 (lots of dupes)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760128 in avahi (Ubuntu Xenial) "package avahi-dnsconfd 0.6.32~rc+dfsg-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760128
<bdmurray> research into ca-certificates bug LP: #1764848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1764848 in ca-certificates (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to ca-certificates to 20180409 causes ca-certificates.crt to be removed if duplicate certs found" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764848
<bdmurray> triage of apport-package bionic bug reports
<bdmurray> pinged kubuntu team about bug LP: #1622499
<bdmurray> digging in update-notifier and systemd user jobs kind of like bug LP: #1761841
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622499 in kaccounts-providers (Ubuntu) "[master] package kaccounts-providers (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/signon-ui/webkit-options.d/accounts.google.com.conf', which is also in package account-plugin-google 0.13+16.04.20160719-0ubuntu1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1761841 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Notification for livepatch are not shown." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761841
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * apt:
<juliank>   - landed hook support for snap integration
<juliank>   - landed zstd support
<juliank>   - released apt and python-apt 1.6; opened 1.7 branches :)
<juliank> * networkd-dispatcher:
<juliank>   - MIR
<juliank>   - dropped iw|wireless-tools depends to suggests
<juliank>   - made it read hooks from /usr/lib instead of /etc (bug 1765152)
<ubottu> bug 1765152 in networkd-dispatcher (Ubuntu Bionic) "networkd-dispatcher should read from /usr/lib, not /etc" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765152
<juliank> * fixing ftbfs page to only show main stuff in team lists (pending merge)
<juliank> * seeded pv and socat in supported-cloud
<juliank> (done)
<juliank> odd weechat
<slangasek>  * one week from release and I feel fine
<slangasek>  * review of inbound last minute kernel packaging changes
<slangasek>  * review of shim-signed changes
<slangasek>  * misc FTBFS fixes
<slangasek>  * misc archive cleanup (priority-mismatch, component-mismatch)
<slangasek>  * reached out to web team for download page changes
<slangasek>  * fixed ubiquity VT conflict properly LP: #1763739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1763739 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[xubuntu, budgie & mate] ISO boots directly to desktop" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1763739
<slangasek>  * network stack design discussions
<slangasek>  * FFe reviews
<slangasek>  * prep for roadmap sprint the week after release
<gaughen> slangasek, is your first line meant to be sung?
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> gaughen: /all/ my lines are meant to be sung
<gaughen> lol
<slangasek> rcj:
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * âHIGHLIGHT: google-cloud-sdk shipping in Bionic as a snap rather than deb package in Google Compute Engine images
<rcj> * cloud-image test improvements / fixes
<rcj> â done
 * doko turns down the volume
<gaughen> woot!
<gaughen> rcj, should we put that in the release notes?
<sil2100> Ok, no infinity here
<gaughen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
<sil2100> Let me go
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - A lot of bionic queue reviews
<sil2100> - Investigating and resolving the debian-installer broken non-latin locale (thanks Colin!)
<sil2100> - Investigating and fixing ubiquity not pre-selecting the keyboard layout per locale
<sil2100> - NEW review of lightdm-settings
<sil2100> - grub2:
<sil2100>   * Sending auto-nvram patch for upstream review
<sil2100>   * Adjusting patch verbosity and preparing patch and preparing git-dpm branch for merge
<sil2100> - Some short fun with security britney2 juju charm
<sil2100> - Spinning new base language-packs for bionic
<sil2100> - Stressed with incoming release
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> * Back from vacation, so mostly catching up
<Odd_Bloke> * Vanguard for cloud image build system, largely in preparation for bionic release
<Odd_Bloke> * Started work on cloud-specific model assertions for cloud images
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> fginther:
<fginther> * Refactored xenial GCE image to the new build system
<fginther> * Worked with IS to enable updated jenkins slaves
<fginther> * Testing of new automation for partner cloud image publication
<fginther> * Fixed the jenkins log analyser to correctly fetch logs in our production jenki
<fginther> ns environments
<fginther> (done)
<philroche> * Deliver early preview of Bionic to public clouds
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<fginther> philroche:
<gaughen> slangasek, infinity, sil2100 should we call out the snapped agents in the release notes
<sil2100> gaughen: we could, but not sure if we had such cloud-specific changes in the release notes before
<tdaitx> Short week: 1.5 days off due to personal issues
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 10 as default JDK
<tdaitx>   - libcommons-lang3-java, gradle, groovy fixes (ongoing)
<tdaitx>   - javah, invalid source/target, ant default to --release, doclets
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 8 security update
<tdaitx>   - applied s390x fix (from upstream)
<sil2100> But maybe I was just unlucky with artful not having those
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> - [HIGHLIGHT] netplan 0.35 - 'netplan try' landed, fixed mii-monitor-interval, etc.
<cyphermox> - MIR reviews
<cyphermox> - ubiquity release 18.04.6
<cyphermox> - lots of examples, docs updates to website / git thanks to powersj
<cyphermox> - uploaded shim-signed, dkms changes to self-sign DKMS modules
<cyphermox> - reviewed initramfs-tools netplan integration changes
<cyphermox> - started SRUs for netplan breadcrumbs, mii-monitor-interval fixes
<gaughen> sil2100, thanks. I'm not sure we'll call it out then - as it's not a new package in the image but a move to a snap
<cyphermox> - started SRUs for DKMS+shim-signed u-s-p changes to xenial, artful
<cyphermox> - discussed netplan YAML syntax checking updates with dja
<cyphermox> (done)
<rbalint> o/
<xnox> Worked on rax-nova-agent, xe-guest-utilities, and progressing with maas/livecd-rootfs/subiquity.
<xnox> Talking about IPv6 RA, and SCSI scans.
<xnox> â done.
<tribaal> * Travel to Iceland
<tribaal> * Worked on Minimal builds
<tribaal> * Handover task to other team members (I'm leaving :/)
<tribaal> * Thanks for all the good times and for being awesome.
<tribaal> (done)
<rbalint> * new unattended-upgrades release
<rbalint> * finalizing and uploading dpkg zstd support
<rbalint> * things i can't report yet (i think)
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - gcc-7 / gcc-8 updates
<doko> - python 2.7.15rc1 update
<doko> - java related syncs
<doko> - investigate issues likely to be caused by the --push-state --no-as-needed --popstate usage
<doko> - fix some ftbfs
<doko> - process some MIRs
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> questions on status?
<slangasek> forgot to mention, I'm off tomorrow
<bdmurray> I'm out on Monday
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<tdaitx> doko you mentioned additional java relarted failures on update_excuses, under what packages are those?
<bdmurray> there are still a bunch of bugs targetted for bionic
<bdmurray> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<doko> tdaitx: search for csvjdbc and all down to libpdfbox2-java
<tdaitx> doko: ack, thanks
<slangasek> bdmurray: any of these we should highlight for fixing before GA vs. being candidates for SRU?
<bdmurray> xnox: are you still working on bug 1749199?
<ubottu> bug 1749199 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "purge conf files on removal of upstart (was session fails to start after an upgrade from xenial to bionic)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749199
<tdaitx> doko: is there any I should be aware that is not listed under "Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers"?
<doko> tdaitx: I didn't check. LO still seems to build
<bdmurray> Also is there a hold up on bug 1761630? its Fix Committed
<ubottu> bug 1761630 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "journald takes over /dev/log in bionic, impacts usability of syslog querying" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761630
<xnox> bdmurray, yes, still working. Specifically, i dislike that if things are chosen to be deconfigured and deinstalled as part of the upgrade, they are not purged/removed later on. Only leaf things end up purged. So I'm working on improving the transaction to ensure things chosen for removal mid-upgrade, are purged, and not just removed.
<slangasek> bdmurray: the fix for that is stuck in bionic-proposed due to libfastjson MIR
<xnox> bdmurray, not sure if I should be stashing / remembering removed things, in case of an upgrade failure, and only purging them upon successful upgrade.
<bdmurray> xnox: Are you doing it in ubuntu-release-upgrader? If so did you look at PostUpgradeQuriks?
<slangasek> xnox: upstart is already unsupported in xenial except for upgrades; I think you should not overengineer
<doko> slangasek, xnox: do we want to include libfastjson in the rsyslog source?
<slangasek> doko: is that the MIR and security team's guidance?
<doko> the MIR team doesn't dislike that
<doko> and the security team doesn't dislike it either
<xnox> slangasek, it's not just upstart. And upstart is totally supported and required on xenial, since on xenial it is the user-session init.....
<slangasek> xnox: is this about system-level conffiles?
<xnox> slangasek, yes.
<slangasek> xnox: that are unused for the user session?
<xnox> the upgrade bugs area bout system-level conffiles; user session init does not use system-level conffiles; but in xenial it was shipped in the same binary package....
<xnox> *are about
<slangasek> xnox: right - so I think there's no significant impact from just rm -f'ing the conffiles from whatever's doing this cleanup
<bdmurray> cyphermox: it looks like there is an MP for bug 1741690.
<ubottu> bug 1741690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Bionic) "You can't enable the Orca screen reader until after you click "Try Ubuntu" on Ubuntu bionic" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1741690
<cyphermox> bdmurray: aye
<slangasek> bdmurray: any others?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Oh maybe we should talk about the screen upgrade issue
<bdmurray> bug 1761997
<ubottu> bug 1761997 in screen (Ubuntu) "/var/run needs mode 777 in bionic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1761997
<bdmurray> It needs 775 in Xenial and 777 in Bionic.
<slangasek> bdmurray: two options to fix it: set perms in the preinst, or handle the perms of screen itself via dpkg-statoverride instead of shipping the current upgrade-incompatible perms in the package
<gaughen> are we agreed we need to fix this one for release, bdmurray ?
<bdmurray> gaughen: I agree with myself
<gaughen> :-)
<slangasek> bdmurray: does it affect artful->bionic?
<bdmurray> slangasek: No, it doesn't because artful has it as 777
<slangasek> bdmurray: then the deadline is 18.04.1, right?
<bdmurray> slangasek: Oh, I see.
<bdmurray> Yes
<bdmurray> that's it then from me
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<rbalint> slangasek: can we retarget LP: #1488620 to 18.04.1, too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1488620 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Add LZ4 support to initramfs-tools" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488620
<rbalint> (it was not allowed to 18.04.0)
<slangasek> rbalint: you can target it, yes ;)
<rbalint> \o/ :-)
<slangasek> rbalint: (doesn't mean I consider it a priority for 18.04.1, but we would at least consider it for SRU)
<rbalint> :-\
<slangasek> sounds like there's no other business
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 19 15:55:48 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-19-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<elopio> wxl: jose: marcoceppi: ahoneybun: we start in 15 minutes.
<elopio> wxl: jose: marcoceppi: ahoneybun: elacheche: meeting time. Who's online?
<elopio> where's flexiondotorg?
<jose> o/
<Wimpress> elopio: I've changed nick :-)
<Wimpress> Or rather, using a different alias.
<elopio> Wimpress: oh, good!
<elopio> do we wait for one more person, or should we start now?
<jose> I'd say we wait for quorum
<jose> I think Aaron is here?
<elopio> ahoneybun?
<elopio> elacheche said he would arrive late. I heard no word from the rest.
<jose> if anything, I can only be here for the first hour
<ahoneybun> elopio, Yes here.
<elopio> ok. Wimpress, jose: are you here too? If so, I will start.
<jose> in and out but yes
<elopio> jose: in and out is not good enough. These meetings have been scheduled since we started :/
<jose> well, I have to work too. if you prefer to not count me in, feel free to, but I'll still be watching and responding.
<elopio> I prefer to count only the people who is in the meeting.
<elopio> we asked before if we should move the time in case people were busy, and nobody has proposed a different time.
<Wimpress> Here
<elopio> This is getting very very boring. We knew about these meetings when we proposed ourselves to the council.
<ahoneybun> elopio, people have work and life to work around. Please try to understand that. This is a volunteer position.
<elopio> ahoneybun: this is not any volunteer position. All the info was upfront before the election.
<elopio> and if this is not a good time, we can move it to a better time. But instead, people decide just not to show (without giving any notice), or to show and not participate.
<ahoneybun> elopio, not getting paid makes it a volunteer position: https://www.google.com/search?ei=8tDYWoKvGojgjwTD2p_4Bg&q=volunteering+definition&oq=voluteering+de&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i10k1l7.2821.3379.0.4696.3.3.0.0.0.0.76.202.3.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.201....0.mEnKGZ7pAW0
<ahoneybun> I'm sorry : http://www.dictionary.com/browse/volunteer
<elopio> it is not *any* volunteer position
<elopio> it is one where you get a lot of commitments
<ahoneybun> My biggest commitment is keeping my job. I'm sorry but some days it's not busy and I can watch IRC all day and some days I don't.
<jose> okay, let's call this meeting off for now. we'll reconvene and discuss this later. thanks, everyone.
<elopio> ahoneybun: you can at least let us know. And you can suggest a better time.
<elopio> or you can work async, to make up for the meetings you miss
<elopio> or so many other possible options.
<elopio> the choice of not doing nothing is not one I will understand.
<ahoneybun> I understand that I was defending that jose did explain it.
<Wimpress> Is this meeting time not suitable for everyone?
<Wimpress> We have just chosen to follow what previous CCs did.
<Wimpress> This topic of turning up and participating is occupying a lot of our time when we get together.
<elopio> I'm happy to meet at (almost) any other time.
<Wimpress> I'd prefer we were not navel-gazing when we meet.
<ahoneybun> Wimpress, the time is fine for me most of the time. It really depends on how busy I am at work.
<elopio> I'm also happy to just meet with whoever is present, and consider that quorum even if it's two people.
<Wimpress> Me too ^
<elopio> let's start then, Wimpress.
<Wimpress> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 19 17:35:50 2018 UTC.  The chair is Wimpress. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elopio> #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180419
<meetingology> elopio: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<Wimpress> #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180419
<meetingology> Wimpress: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<Wimpress> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 19 17:36:11 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-19-17.35.moin.txt
<elopio> :)
<Wimpress> #startmeeting Community Council meeting: 20180419
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 19 17:36:15 2018 UTC.  The chair is Wimpress. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Community Council meeting: 20180419 | Current topic:
<elopio> So, we start with Wimpress and elopio present, jose and ahoneybun in and out. elacheche excused himself, wxl and marcoceppi haven't reported themselves
<jose> wxl said he's attending to a medical emergency
<elopio> noted.
<elopio> #topic Progress from last meeting
<elopio> #subtopic Bold bug triaging - jose and Wimpress
<elopio> can you please tell us how did that go?
<Wimpress> I am perhaps under the incorrect assumption jose was dealing with that?
<Wimpress> I offered to help but I think jose was onit?
<jose> I emailed about it and had no response, I will re-email about it
<Wimpress> jose: Thanks. Who did you mail?
<elopio> jose was on it but you said you would sync with him and help if needed.
<jose> lemme check
<Wimpress> jose: Just forward me the email and I'll chase it.
<jose> wgrant
<jose> gotcha
<jose> will do that later on
<Wimpress> fwd the mail and I'll talk to wgrant
<Wimpress> Thanks.
<elopio> #action jose will forward the email to Wimpress, Wimpress will follow up.
<meetingology> ACTION: jose will forward the email to Wimpress, Wimpress will follow up.
<elopio> thank you. Next
<elopio> #subtopic Triage CoC bug - all CC.
<Wimpress> Haven't looked at all, sorry.
<elopio> I didn't do it. I made some progress about CoC, that I will tell you about on a future topic. And I'm not going to take any actions today, I will just focus on CoC
<elopio> jose: ahoneybun?
<Wimpress> Wise
<jose> I haven't checked CoC bugs - I though we were going to set times for us to group-review them?
<ahoneybun> reading.
<elopio> on the previous meetings, we have said that all the issues need triaging first, and that we should all take a few
<elopio> none of us have done it, so it remains for the next meeting.
<ahoneybun> Sounds good.
<elopio> #subtopic Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum. @elacheche
<elopio> elacheche: please update the status on the community hub post for this meeting.
<elopio> #subtopic Contact the liri and enlightenment community, to start with those two. @Wimpress
<Wimpress> I have done the discovery.
<Wimpress> Have contacts from Bohdi Linux and an Ubuntu community contributor maintaining a PPA for E21.
<Wimpress> Also have several contacts for Liri, two also with LP active accounts.
<Wimpress> Have sent emails yet.
<Wimpress> Will send emails in the next day or two.
<Wimpress> Bit crazy with the 18.04 release around the corner.
<elopio> #action Wimpress will send the emails to liri and enlightenment contacts
<meetingology> ACTION: Wimpress will send the emails to liri and enlightenment contacts
<elopio> thank you. Next
<elopio> #subtopic Make a post on the hub about the guerrilla marketing campaign. @Wimpress
<Wimpress> I have started a draft, it isn't finished.
<Wimpress> I'll get around to finishing and posting this after 18.04 and UbuCon Europe.
<Wimpress> So probably the week of our next CC meeting.
<elopio> Wimpress: I will have time in may, if you need a hand with it. Should I keep the same action?
<jose> can we put it in a gdoc or etherpad? that way maybe we can all contribute and get it off the door asap
<Wimpress> Yes, keep the action.
<Wimpress> I post in a gist and share with you.
<Wimpress> Or a gdoc or whatever. Sure.
<Wimpress> I will circulate the draft.
<elopio> #action Make a post on the hub about the guerrilla marketing campaign. Share the draft. @Wimpress
<meetingology> ACTION: Make a post on the hub about the guerrilla marketing campaign. Share the draft. @Wimpress
<Wimpress> But it won't be this week or next week.
<elopio> I think we are in no hurry with that one. It would be nice for 18.10
<elopio> so start anytime next month should be more than enough.
<jose> sounds great :)
<elopio> #subtopic Talk to the translations coordinators and the launchpad team to join the discussion on the hub. @elopio
<elopio> one of the translations coordinator was already participating in the hub discussion.
<elopio> let me paste the link here for later reference
<elopio> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/reconcidering-workflows/4656
<elopio> my point there is to work closer with upstreams, and less with launchpad.
<elopio> gunnarhj said that has been always the idea. I didn't now this, at all. If that's the case, maybe we can close launchpad translations for all the packages that are not patched in ubuntu, and things like that, to make it clearer.
<elopio> I'm not sure where the discussion will lead, but it's good to have it. Feel free to leave your thoughts in there.
<elopio> #subtopic Figure out how to do a private backlog on the hub or on launchpad @elacheche, @Wimpress
<elopio> anything happening there?
<Wimpress> Sorry, no.
<elopio> I don't think that elacheche collected the actions of the previous 3 meetings, so I'm not sure if this is going to work.
<elopio> elacheche: please report on the topic on the hub.
<elopio> ok, that's what we have from the previous meeting.
<elopio> something else to report about the work of the past two weeks?
<Wimpress> Not from me.
<Wimpress> FYI - final freese for 18.04 today.
<Wimpress> *freeze even.
<elopio> \o/ awesome!
<elopio> Let's jump to the next point on the agenda.
<Wimpress> I'm looking forward to getting to bed before 3am again :-)
<elopio> :) please don't burn out Wimpress, we need you!
<elopio> #topic Add a section about inclusiveness to the code of conduct - @elopio
<elopio> sorry, I phased out.
<elopio> I was at an interesting event on the weekend. We were learning from Mozilla about enforcing the code of conduct.
<elopio> that's very relevant for us, because we have had three reports already. And we have responded, but it's always hard to know how to do it.
<elopio> they are forming a community of communities, to discuss about these issues. Their next call is going to be on may 4th.
<elopio> I'll join for sure. And I'll send you the details in case somebody else wants to join.
<elopio> That's one thing. The other is that on our first meeting we talked about being more inclusive, but we didn't have a clear idea of how to do it.
<Wimpress> Sounds interesting.
<Wimpress> I'd be interested in joining to.
<elopio> we can get some good ideas from the Mozilla team, because they are doing an awesome job there.
<Wimpress> Yep.
<elopio> my first goal is to add a section about inclussiveness into our code of conduct. Probably, copying what mozilla has on their contributor guidelines.
<elopio> For that, I first need to convince you that we need it. So I will work on finding data to support it, and planning the next steps to make it more than letter in a website.
<Wimpress> Do we need to make proposals to change the CoC and get sign off from Mark or are we the custodians?
<elopio> so, I don't have a lot to tell yet, but I will have in the upcoming meetings.
<elopio> Wimpress: I think should get a sign off even if it's not required. And I have no idea how it works for the people who have already signed it, I saw something about versions on lauchpad
<elopio> but that's part of the work to do, figure out all the details.
<Wimpress> OK, so we need to find out what the process is.
<elopio> any questions? suggestions?
<Wimpress> I have no objection to updating the CoC.
<Wimpress> Just want to learn what the correct process for doing so is.
<jose> I think in the past it's been discussion, review, and merge into the CoC branch in LP
<elopio> I will also consult with Jono, because I know this was not added by design. I think we will disagree, but it would be good to have his opinion.
<Wimpress> Yep.
<elopio> ok, feel free to join me if you want to help. Next.
<elopio> #topic Member for life, the wrong policy - @om26er
<elopio> I don't think omer is around
<elopio> a short summary is that he's making two proposals: first, do not let people renew their membership after it expires. Second, make a check with the current members (every two years I think) to see if their ar still active.
<elopio> I guess the actions for us is to get involved in that topic
<jose> I think Mark had a said on that a while ago, saying something around the words of 'if you had valuable contributions to Ubuntu once, we thank you for them and consider you a member for life', I think it'd be worth consulting with Mark
<elopio> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/member-for-life-the-wrong-policy/5257/1
<Wimpress> Peoples circumstances change.
<elopio> I live being a member for life. But the discussion is interesting.
<Wimpress> I was active in the Ubuntu community from 2004 to 2009. Then dissappeared until 2014.
<Wimpress> Because I started a family.
<elopio> Let's make this action
<elopio> #action If people from the CC have opinions about the topic, join the discussion on the hub.
<meetingology> ACTION: If people from the CC have opinions about the topic, join the discussion on the hub.
<Wimpress> I think people who acheived membership in the past and elect to renew their membership should be permitted to do so.
<Wimpress> It is possible they will once again become active, as I did.
<elopio> then, if there's something actionable related to membership status, we can discuss here again, and involve Mark.
<elopio> I would like to take this as an opportunity to start thinking about ways to get new members and recover the old ones.
<elopio> on the post, I used the communitheme as an example. How do we get all that energy into people signing the code of conduct, planning for future activities with their communities, and being proud members?
<Wimpress> I've replied on the Hub.
<elopio> but, I said I would take no actions this meeting, so I will push it to may, unless somebody else wants to do something about it now.
<Wimpress> Well the flavour bootstrapping is my idea to get some new members.
<elopio> yes, and the guerrilla marketing. Those are great.
<elopio> ok, the last topic was the review of actions with elacheche. So, there's nothing left.
<Wimpress> Any other business?
<Wimpress> I need to go and read bedtime stories. So...
<Wimpress> 5...
<elopio> I'm still angry, so I would like to point out: ahoneybun: you have taken no actions on this meeting. jose: your only action is to forward an email.
<Wimpress> 4...
<Wimpress> 3...
<elopio> the problem is not only the meeting, to me. We can discuss more in the next one.
<Wimpress> 2...
<Wimpress> OK
<Wimpress> 1..
<Wimpress> Right, that's all folks. See you in two weeks.
<Wimpress> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 19 18:23:37 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-04-19-17.36.moin.txt
<elopio> bye, have a nice weekend.
<Wimpress> And you.
<ahoneybun> elopio, I did not have any actions.
<elopio> That's the problem ahoneybun. What are you doing as part of the CoC?
<ahoneybun> elopio, you mean CC ?
<elopio> yes.
<ahoneybun> Don't worry I've sent an email to the mailing list.
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-20
<rert5> hi
<rert5> rcj
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-04-21
<TonyL3> https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live IS POPPIN HOT RIGHT NOW STILL GOING!! CALL 315-505-4666. IRC.EFNET.ORG #lrh
<TonyL3> https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live IS POPPIN HOT RIGHT NOW STILL GOING!! CALL 315-505-4666. IRC.EFNET.ORG #lrh
<tsimonq2> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<TonyL3> jjohansen mcs_ gaughen markthomas ogra_ PotatoGim mariogrip diddledan sforshee Trevinho retoaded Adri2000 vtapia sakrecoer cpaelzer mwhudson djinni ochosi czajkowski mdeslaur hyperair fginther WaVeR bdrung rbalint ubot9 dragan-s JanC hggdh sbeattie kees Tm_T tribaal ratliff DalekSec tsimonq2 slashd chiluk wxl[m] stgraber meetingology Logan Noskcaj ejat kugg chrisccoulson thedac el Ampelbein lionel inetpro slangasek charles fnordahl lamont Mmike wolsen
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-04-16
<cyphermox> didrocks: cpaelzer: doko: jamespage: jdstrand: MIR team meeting?
<jamespage> o/
<cpaelzer> here
<cyphermox> ok; well, it's release week, how about we expedite the meeting and cut to the important parts
<cyphermox> are there any pressing matters that need to be addressed now?
<cyphermox> as in, things that need to be done prior to release
<didrocks> not that I know of
<cpaelzer> no pressing pre-disco things from sevrer team
<cpaelzer> "server"
<cyphermox> cool; so let's focus on the release.
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: I'm finishing the review of uwsgi todat
<cpaelzer> thank you
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: I ahve engaged with upstream on the twitter-bootrsap 3->4 move
<cpaelzer> but that will take a while
<cpaelzer> it seems upstream mailman have looked at the transition already, but it is far from trivial
<cpaelzer> therefore I gave it over to security for their review
<cyphermox> cool
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-13
 * Emerling present from the ubuntu-ve team
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-14
 * ddstreet getting coffee but here o/
<didrocks> hey o/
<joeubuntu> hello all!
<rikardGn> under the topic other questions I would like to adress how support can be enhances for gaming periperhals
<rikardGn> in the kernel /regards richard
<rikardGn> sorry wrong meetingtime
<rikardGn> bye
<bittin> any more Ubuntu meetings tonight?
<luna-> Any Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Women Meetings tonight?
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-04-16
<juliank> o/
<slyon> o/
<waveform> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 15:01:21 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> mwhudson tdaitx vorlon sil2100 juliank infinity doko xnox waveform rbalint bdmurray slyon
<tdaitx> * openjdk-8 (xenial, bionic, eoan, focal) and openjdk-11 (bionic, eoan, focal) security updates
<tdaitx>   - openjdk-11 required a few rebuilds and 2 additional patch backports to fix regressions
<tdaitx>   - all currently building in the openjdk security ppa
<tdaitx> * openjdk-lts split stable/flaky tests
<tdaitx>   - got a heads up that getting rid of test artifacts in the jdk package is needed for reproducible builds
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<tdaitx>   - reviewed and tested how to achieve that with the split
<tdaitx>   - needs test whitelist working to prevent unexpected failures in autopkgtest runs (jtreg only really supports blacklist)
<tdaitx> * xz-util ftbfs is caused by a debhelper change, tracked down packages changes and now working through the big diff
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * queue reviews for release
<vorlon>  * reviews of netplan schema changes
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> - Had a longer weekend
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Release team work:
<sil2100>   * Queue reviews (a semi-shift during holidays too)
<sil2100>   * FFe reviews
<sil2100>   * Prepared release tracking document
<sil2100>   * Prepared achive opening tracking document
<sil2100>   * Poked mvo about updating DDTB data translations
<sil2100>   * Bumped dates in hwe-support-status, waiting for release
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Did more SR-IOV testing on actual hardware (remotely)
<sil2100>   * Per Lukases review, merged SR-IOV PR
<sil2100>   * Implemented a follow up SR-IOV change for adding explicit count of VFs
<sil2100>   * Released 0.99 on github, prepared Ubuntu packages, pushed to queue
<sil2100>   * Looked into how the NM 1.10 snap is built
<sil2100>   * Backlog cleanup
<sil2100>   * Discussions regarding NM netplan read-write plugin
<sil2100> - Reviewed MPs for the server legacy rename, asked for feedback, deployed
<sil2100> - Did some core18 reviews
<sil2100> - Investigated why the langpack-o-matic instance was down, poked IS, now good
<sil2100> - Updated the raspi JSON (apparently not good enough)
<sil2100> - Reviewed Iain's britney MP for handling arches that are not tested
<sil2100> - Finally created a raspi4 symlink for classic 18.04.4 images
<sil2100> (done)
<juliank> * short week due to easter (out Fri and Mon)
<juliank> * resilient boot: fixed migration from /boot/efi to debconf
<juliank> * resilient boot: fixed display of disk size and name
<juliank> * software-properties: fixed Qt frontend driver stuff (LP: #1872551)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872551 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-qt: nvidia driver version switch fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872551
<juliank> * python-apt: 2.1.0 and 2.1.1 releases in unstable, dropping support for Python 2
<juliank> (done)
<doko>  - openjdk-8, -11, -13, -14, -15 updates
<doko>  - bootstrapping the newer openjdk versions for riscv64
<doko>  - worked with upstream to address two regressions in the 11.0.7+b10 release
<doko>  - gcc-10 bug fixing, trying to make the nvidia offloading support working
<doko>  - trying to clean up component mismatches
<doko>  - some last minute uploads: base-files
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> renaming ubuntu-server in all the places
<xnox> working on oem kernel install/removal in ubiquity
<xnox> uc20 pi images => almost having the first arm64 build
<xnox> subiquity reviews & fixes
<xnox> Can i rename d-i images again to unbreak virt-install? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1872941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872941 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "[Ubuntu 20.04] virt-install fails to detect path after images folder name has changed" [Critical,Triaged]
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Testing images on as many Pis as possible; images are now functional again (after livecd-rootfs updates landed), but 4Gb USB issue still present until linux-raspi in -proposed lands
<waveform> * Re-tested upgrades from Bionic and Eoan on variety of Pis; all working bar CM3 on arm64 (lack of space)
<waveform> * Worked on NOOBS compatible boot setup
<waveform> * u-boot-rpi MIR passed security review (LP: #1869792)
<waveform> * Working on adding snap bug submission to apport (LP: #1861082)
<waveform> * Wrote some more cloud-init posts and answered a few pi forum posts
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869792 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "[MIR] u-boot-rpi" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869792
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861082 in snapd "ubuntu-bug doesn't know how to file bugs against snaps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861082
<waveform> (done)
<rbalint> (short week due to holidays)
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * unattended-upgrades 2.3
<rbalint> * systemd 245.4-4ubuntu1
<rbalint> * glibc 2.31-0ubuntu9 (in ff-proposed)
<rbalint> * bug gardening
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> uploaded 18.04 SRU for LP: #1845690
<bdmurray> SRU verification of the above bug too
<bdmurray> review / approval of Ubuntu Bug Control application
<bdmurray> uploaded terminator fixing LP: #1867746
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1845690 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Do not offer an upgrade from i386 systems" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867746 in Terminator "URL highlighting broken with VTE 0.60" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867746
<bdmurray> discovered / worked around issue retracing some systemd crashes
<bdmurray> uploaded apport-symptom for the installer LP: #1868161
<bdmurray> investigation into not apport bug LP: #1774843
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to focal w/ retracing fixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868161 in apport-symptoms (Ubuntu Focal) "symptom for installer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868161
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774843 in python3.8 (Ubuntu Eoan) "apport python exception for python versions which python-apt is not built on" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774843
<bdmurray> sponsored update-manager upload fixing LP: #1872958
<bdmurray> deactivated 20.04 milestones that have passed
<bdmurray> focal queue reviews
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872958 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-software keeps being replaced by snap-store" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872958
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> - short week due to easter
<slyon> - netplan PR review for SR-IOV explicit VF count
<slyon> - working on netplan's NetworkManager read/write plugin
<slyon>   * IP6 Addr-Gen-Mode
<slyon>   * GSM/CDMA features
<slyon>   * dhcp-hostname
<slyon>   * fix WiFi/SSID handling
<slyon> - investigated backporting of netplan plugin to NM v1.10
<slyon>   * does not seem to be feasible,
<slyon>     due to NM settings-plugin framework rewrite
<slyon> - libnetplan & netplan.io v0.99 testing
<slyon>   * autopkgtests (integration) OK
<slyon>   * unit-tests (make check) OK
<slyon>   * manual testing ONGOING
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1872902
<ubottu> bug 1872902 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to Focal now removes chrony" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872902
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<rbalint> i took a look, but it is not trivial why it u-r-u does that
<rbalint> +1 for taking it
<bdmurray> Is it something we should sort out before release?
<rbalint> would be really nice, but not a must i think
<bdmurray> So for some reason this is u-r-u specific though correct?
<bdmurray> We'll take it
<bdmurray> bug 1872100
<ubottu> bug 1872100 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""The GRUB bootloader was previously installed to a disk that is no longer present..."" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872100
<bdmurray> I saw these messages when upgrading by autopkgtest systems the other day
<bdmurray> juliank indicates this is a duplicate and will clean it up
<juliank> duplicate of bug 1872077
<ubottu> bug 1872077 in grub2 (Ubuntu Focal) "package grub-efi-amd64-signed 1.140+2.04-1ubuntu24 failed to install/upgrade with mount: /var/lib/grub/esp: special device /, does not exist" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872077
<bdmurray> bug 1870930
<ubottu> bug 1870930 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemctl crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870930
<bdmurray> rbalint: You had a look at this correct?
<rbalint> +1 for taking it
<rbalint> systemd master seems to have fixed it, i plan cherry-picking the fix
<bdmurray> but as an SRU?
<rbalint> when i get to which one is it :-)
<rbalint> bdmurray, imo sru is ok, i only saw it with unityu
<rbalint> unity session
<bdmurray> bug 1871523
<ubottu> bug 1871523 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "linux-modules-5.4.0-1002-oem installed after installing focal beta" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871523
<bdmurray> There is a livecd-rootfs change that will fix this and it is already targetted to focal
<bdmurray> bug 1871538
<ubottu> bug 1871538 in dbus (Ubuntu) "dbus timeout-ed during an upgrade, taking services down including gdm" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871538
<bdmurray> I think we should work with the desktop team on this one
<bdmurray> but lets card that
<bdmurray> bug 1871800 and bug 1871801 are similar
<ubottu> bug 1871800 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager translation is broken in embedded terminal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871800
<ubottu> bug 1871801 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-release-upgrader translation is broken focal" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871801
<bdmurray> We think this is deliberate so that logging is English
<bdmurray> But we'll look at doing it for 20.04.1
<rbalint> i looked at fixing strace ftbfs, but it would be better to land the new upstream in sid because there are many fixes to pull/tests to mask
<rbalint> it is quite late, in the cycle, but should i give it a try?
<xnox> can i have new debhelper too?
<rbalint> riscv64 without strace would not be great for debugging things
 * xnox hides
<vorlon> >_<
<vorlon> I'd certainly consider a new upstream of strace
<xnox> or we can do strace SRU as hwe?
<rbalint> vorlon, ok, i'll check the merge then
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> doxygen autopkgtest regression blocks gcc-9
<vorlon> ... on i386
<vorlon> that's interesting
<vorlon> I'll take that
<vorlon> libgd2 missing builds
<vorlon> who wants to look at this?
<vorlon> (doxygen was easy, just needs an --all-proposed retrigger)
<vorlon> libgd2 is failing on riscv64
<rbalint> iscd-dhcp needs a retrigger with new chrony, doing it
<vorlon> and is somehow a regression
<xnox> golang needs NEW AA processing
<vorlon> don't know where y'all are jumping ahead to
<vorlon> but there is no golang in NEW
<vorlon> we should probably look at the ones < 3 days, since we don't get another chance at this before release
<vorlon> but someone needs to take libgd2/riscv64
<vorlon> volunteer? :)
<vorlon> oh libgd2 looks like another case of building in security pocket
<vorlon> so that just needs a no-change reupload to -proposed
<vorlon> tdaitx: ^^ would you care to take care of that?
<tdaitx> vorlon: ack
<vorlon> openssl, looks like it just needs a retry w/ all-proposed, trying
<vorlon> curl, needs someone to sift through these autopkgtest regressions, probably mostly just retries
<vorlon> xnox: ^^ would you like this one?
<rbalint> i have just retried a few
<xnox> doko:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/amd64/binutils-riscv64-linux-gnu
<vorlon> and systemd failing on ppc64el, is this flakiness?
<rbalint> vorlon, i retried, i suspect so
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> rbalint: considering you the owner of this then
<xnox> doko:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/focal/riscv64/binutils-riscv64-linux-gnu
<vorlon> openjdk-lts, just waiting for test results
<vorlon> python-launchpadlib, wasn't our upload and it regressed its own autopkgtests, so that's not a priority
<vorlon> u-r-u autopkgtest failure on armhf - bdmurray ?
<rbalint> vorlon, ack, carded it
<tdaitx> vorlon: that openjdk-lts versions is missing a patch btw, doko is working on the update
<vorlon> tdaitx: ok
<doko> it's building in a ppa to save time
<bdmurray> vorlon: that's a timeout
<vorlon> bdmurray: will you follow it up?
<vorlon> git vs mercurial on s390x, I can look at
<bdmurray> yeah
<vorlon> glib2.0 waiting for autopkgtests to run
<vorlon> glibc has scattered autopkgtest regressions, I guess rbalint might already be on this
<rbalint> vorlon, yes, on them
<vorlon> golang-defaults, needs promotions, will be sorted shortly via c-m
<rbalint> should not be real regressions
<vorlon> and that's the list
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<xnox> https://www.fastemoji.com/Search/?q=baton
<bdmurray> ð§¨
<xnox> sil2100:
<xnox> 15:04:43	<xnox>	http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/focal/main/installer-s390x/current/legacy-images/
<xnox> 15:04:44	<xnox>	to
<xnox> 15:04:53	<xnox>	http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/focal/main/legacy-installer-s390x/current/images/
<xnox> is how frank proposed to rename it
<sil2100> ok
<xnox> such that it's legacy-installer-s390x/..../images, instead of installer-s390x/..../legacy-images/
<vorlon> xnox: actually I wonder if that's going to break mirroring downstream
<xnox> vorlon:  yeah
<xnox> i fear that too
<xnox> and like ftpmirror rsync --excludes etc
<vorlon> because installer-$arch isn't even in InRelease
<xnox> http://ppa.launchpad.net/xnox/nonvirt/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/
<bdmurray> any thing else?
<vorlon> nothing here
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr 16 16:00:53 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-04-16-15.01.moin.txt
<rbalint> o/
