#ubuntu-ports 2006-05-01
* braddr checks a few pulses.
<fabbione> morning
<fabbione> ?
<braddr> g'morning
<ajmitch> morning fabbione 
* fabbione heads back to bed...
<ajmitch> heh
<fabbione> sorry guys but i have been feeling really bad the last days
<fabbione> braddr: no news from david yet.. i think he did crash again somehow
<ajmitch> that's ok, will ask about the T2000 stuff later :)
<ajmitch> got it installed & working
<fabbione> ajmitch: cool
<fabbione> what do you need to ask?
<ajmitch> disk performance seems quite slow
<fabbione> they are 2" 1/2 disks.. don't forget
<fabbione> still faster than slowlaris
<ajmitch> also only 1 cpu was active, but I'm rebooting with the smp kernel as we speak
<fabbione> the -smp kernel is installed automatically if it figures that the box is -smp
<ajmitch> yeah, I just expected something at least on par with the SATA drives I have
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I installed from cd, not netboot
<fabbione> probably we don't ship -smp kernel on CD
<braddr> fabbione: no worries.. I'm still getting work done with solaris.  As long as the problem gets fixed before I have to send the box back, the linux world will have benefitted.
<fabbione> have to check that out
<fabbione> braddr: yeah i truely hope so too
<braddr> fabbione: but I'm not gonna try hard to keep it
<ajmitch> silo doesn't appear to timeout & continue booting, probably a minor issue
<fabbione> yes i understand
<ajmitch> or I'm impatient :)
<fabbione> ajmitch: there is a silo in the archive with that fix
<braddr> I wouldn't say no if they said please just keep it though. :)
<fabbione> it depends how recent is your cd
<ajmitch> ah great
<ajmitch> I installed from the beta release
<fabbione> ajmitch: fix was day after beta
<ajmitch> great, it should be installed now then
<ajmitch> looks like SMP is going now
<fabbione> ajmitch: now slam a blog somewhere :)
<fabbione> braddr: yes i understand
<ajmitch> yeah, will do :)
<fabbione> ok i am off now
<fabbione> take care
<braddr> have a good day
<fabbione> sleep -> doctor -> sleep
<fabbione> that's going to be my day
<fabbione> like the last 5
<braddr> ick.. you're sick too?
<ajmitch> see you later, I hope you get better soon
<fabbione> braddr: yes
<braddr> time to quarantine you and davem and turn up the antibiotics.
<fabbione> might be deases_over_ip
#ubuntu-ports 2006-05-02
* braddr reads the davidm report.. ouch, kidney stones are rough.
<fabbione> hi braddr 
<fabbione> told ya he was pretty bad
* braddr grins, "that's a very different mode of sick than I had assumed.. even more debilitating in some ways."
<fabbione> yeah
<braddr> how are you feeling?  Doctor fix ya up?
<fabbione> i am better yes
<fabbione> thank
<fabbione> +s
<braddr> good deal.
<Jecos> Hi guys, hppa user.. I have a bunch of hppa machines b2000, j5000 to name some.  I can't seem to get any pci matrox cards or any other cards to work with the xserver any hints?
<Jecos> Is there any way to get the xserver going on these? i know its default card isn't supported.
#ubuntu-ports 2006-05-04
<braddr> anyone awake with sparc32 abi experience?
<fabbione> morning
<fabbione> braddr: sparc32???
<braddr> g'morning
<braddr> hey, not everyone builds for 64bits all the time. :)
<fabbione> what are you trying to build in 64bit?
<braddr> I'm working on getting gdc working on solaris (the d language front end for gcc).  It mostly works.
<braddr> the one are that doesn't 'work' is what I believe to be an abi difference between x86 and solaris
<braddr> er.. s/solaris/sparc/
<braddr> too used to solaris equating to sparc.
<braddr> I haven't actually confirmed, but I believe gdc sticks with 32bit compilation for all platforms.  I should confirm that, but it's tangential to the problem I'm seeing.
<braddr> lemee pull up a url
<fabbione> hmm no, i can't help on slolaris
<fabbione> i don't have enough experience in building crap over there
* braddr nods.
<braddr> the problem is that an idiom that's become prevelant in D code is really really abusing an x86ism.
<braddr> that doesn't hold true with other abi calling conventions.
<braddr> http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D.gnu/1778
#ubuntu-ports 2006-05-06
<gnu2it2> what is a good mirror for dapper sparc in the eastern us?
<fabbione> gnu2it2: ports.ubuntu.com
<fabbione> use that one for now
<gnu2it2> thanks
* #ubuntu-ports  [freenode-info]  channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
#ubuntu-ports 2006-05-07
<kimo> Hi, is there any guide on installing (better dual booting) ubuntu on sparc??
<fabbione> kimo: not really.. just install :)
<kimo> u're the kernel guy, right 
<fabbione> no
<fabbione> i am the sparc guy
<kimo> I just heard fabbione "head of ubuntu kernel team" or somthing like that!
<fabbione> that was a release ago
<kimo> wow, does it change that fast!
<fabbione> yes
<fabbione> it was 6 months ago
<fabbione> things change fast
<kimo> well, it still is a pleasure talking to you ;)
<fabbione> :)
<kimo> so, if I want to install ubuntu on a sparc machine ... there are zero docs ?
<kimo> I am *very* well experienced with Linux
<kimo> but very new to sparc machines & solaris
<fabbione> kimo: i usually suggest netboot/netinstall
<fabbione> that means rarpd+tftpd
<kimo> oops, that's the shit I know nothing about right?
<fabbione> the same docs you find for debian or any other distro are valid for ubuntu
<fabbione> there is no real difference
<kimo> I use boot.img to 'netboot'  ?
<fabbione> hmm yes
* kimo searching for debian docs
<kimo> so how good/stable is ubuntu on sparc?
<fabbione> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/install/sparc/
<fabbione> these should be fairly up-to-date
<kimo> thnx a million
<fabbione> np
<kimo> I will probably be installing on a (ultra10 machine, not sure of the name though). Does hardware drivers come with the system?
<fabbione> yes there are no binary/proprietary drivers for sparc
<fabbione> only for one scsi controller and one gfx you need the firmware
<fabbione> but it's not U10 business :)
<fabbione> u10 should work out of the box
<kimo> who writes these drivers!
<kimo> regular Linux hackers
<kimo> or with help from Sun
<fabbione> <kimo> regular Linux hackers <-
<kimo> incredible!
<kimo> Since Linux has an army of devs, this kinda makes sense, but I don't understand how solaris x86 also manages to write drivers for 'PC' hardware!
<kimo> I mean Solarisx86 has only been about for a few years
<fabbione> SUN has money...
<fabbione> anyway i am heading to sleep
<fabbione> good night
<kimo> thanks a lot man ...
<kimo> I am really honored
#ubuntu-ports 2009-04-27
 * persia catches up on backscroll, and suggests a disposal contract, with the intended purpose for the reclaimed scrap as "materials for an artistic project".
#ubuntu-ports 2009-04-28
<NCommander> jbailey, due to the fact I don't ATM have a passport anymore, I won't be able to pick up the space heater anytime from andrew. Probably later in may or early June looks most likely
<NCommander> jbailey, wb
<NCommander> lamont, ping, I need your advice on a HPPA issue w/ the buildds I think.
<NCommander> lamont, specifically, I think part of the problem with hanging processes (such as kde4libs (and ruby1.9 on Debian)) is the kernel on the buildds and porting box is very old
<lamont> NCommander: yep
<lamont> and glibc
<lamont> never forget glibc
<NCommander> lamont, what is the possibility of bumping the kernel version on the porter box to see if my theory lives or dies?
<lamont> basically, nptl/hppa only very recently (as in post-jaunty) got fixed in glibc
<jbailey> lamont, Isn't the glibc current to the release he's hacking on?
 * NCommander has been following debian-hppa, and linux-hppa to some extent seeing if there is anything I need to pull into the ports tree
<lamont> NCommander: hardy user space.  if there's a hardy-backport (ppa or otherwise) that fixes things, I expect we can try - remember that it still has to be able to run a dapper chroot for building dapper bits...
<NCommander> ugh. and dapper won't die until 2011
<jbailey> lamont, Can't we just declare that hppa machines are only workstations and expire it in a couple months?
<NCommander> lamont, so basically, try to backport a kernel, and backport glibc?
 * NCommander can't even confirm if the current HPPA kernels boot due to ENOEMULATOR
<lamont> jbailey: there is a certain amount of humor to be had there... and actually, ports != LSB unless the ports team says so
<NCommander> I doubt LSB even has a HPPA variant
<jbailey> It doesn't.
 * NCommander is just waiting for the gcc-4.3 regression tests to finish on HPPA
<jbailey> It was one of the things I was working on when I decided to stop hacking HPPA
<NCommander> lamont, I ran the 4.4 ones for infinity and doko, they're fairly happy except in libstdc++v3 which had an unhandled error
<NCommander> jbailey, why'd you stop hacking on HPPA?
<jbailey> NCommander, upstream induced apathy.
<NCommander> kernel, or toolchain/ or glibc?
<jbailey> I was hacking on all three.
<jbailey> But kernel.
<NCommander> Dare I ask?
<jbailey> Well.
<jbailey> It's not a very interesting story.
<jbailey> That's the great part about apathy. =)
<lamont> lol
<NCommander> I guess the question is more what caused said apathy
<lamont> jbailey: you were apathetic before you didn't care, no?
<NCommander> I thought HP pushes HPPA fairly hard after ia64 sunk.
<jbailey> lamont, It's hard to tell what order they happened in.
<jbailey> lamont, It was sort of one last attempt to try and get all the pieces going because it looked like it might finally be possible.
<jbailey> I actually understood all the pieces finally. =)
<NCommander> jbailey, do you have any HPPA hardware still?
<jbailey> NCommander, Nope.
<NCommander> pity :-/. I would have tried to buy you out.
<jbailey> I wouldn't have sold it. =)  I got all the hardware for free and that's how it left my hands.
<NCommander> how'd you get free hardware
<jbailey> Once upon a time, people cared about these ports and would arrange hardware for the willing.
<NCommander> HP officially axed PA-RISC late last year :-/
<jbailey> Makes sense, they stopped R&D on it a while ago.
<jbailey> I keep wondering when MIPS is going to finally roll over and die.
<NCommander> MIPS is unlikely to die soon
<NCommander> There's an Ubuntu/mips port (if you know Chinese)
<jbailey> Yeah.  NAS boxes keep them alive.
<NCommander> I was actually referring to the MIPSel netbook
<jbailey> I don't get why those haven't just switched to ARM.  I'd have thought it would be cheaper.
<jbailey> eh, really?
<jbailey> Neat.
<jbailey> I didn't know anyone was making new products when them.
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> mips isn't as expensive as arm
<NCommander> (I think a few implementations are even open source)
<NCommander> I dunno, maybe Ubuntu/hppa should be axed now that the architecture is dead upstream (which kinda depresses me; I hate seeing good architectures die)
<jbailey> Or we should start an Amiga port.
<jbailey> =)
<NCommander> Actually
<NCommander> I did some work towards bootstrapping Ubuntu/m68k ...
<jbailey> lamont, Whatdyathink?  Would elmo run amigas in the DCs?
<NCommander> for April fools
<NCommander> glibc has issues.
<jbailey> Infinity and I talked about that.  A coldfire-only port.
<jbailey> He had some hardware and never got it up and running.
<NCommander> I looked into that
<NCommander> I have coldfire hardware myself
<jbailey> Fun.
<NCommander> You run into the no NPTL issue again
<NCommander> (and my CF board has a broken NIC)
<jbailey> I think at the time I'd offered to do some of the NPTL porting.
<jbailey> m68k asm isn't that scary.
<NCommander> jbailey, I'll give you access to my CF if your interested
<jbailey> I'm old and crochety now.
<NCommander> I looked into it myself, the problem is the m68k ABI doesn't have the necessary spots to put in the tls info
<jbailey> Which is to say I have a 2 year old at home.
<jbailey> You can fake out the tls stuff with pseudo registers like on mips, iirc.
<NCommander> No, no, you misunderstand
<NCommander> The ELF/m68k binary format was never extended
<NCommander> (if I remember debian and linux-m68k right)
<jbailey> Oh. Hmm.  Then IIRC, then you can just use segment references.  Slower, but not that big of a deal.
<jbailey> You're talking years ago since I looked at this.
<jbailey> Debconf 4?
<jbailey> When we were looking at abi transitions.
<jbailey> And sadly my drug cocktail of the last year has left some holes in my memory.
<jbailey> Although most things are back now.
<NCommander> Late 2006-2007
<NCommander> When I was involved with debian-m68k
<NCommander> Maybe early 2008
<jbailey> Well, I mean doko, gotom, me, and a bunch of porters sat in a room in Brazil and talked about the fact that every Debian arch starting with the letter M was fucked for NPTL.
<lamont> jbailey: re: amiga --> I'd have to come hurt you.
<lamont> and if that means smuggling distance weapons into canada, so be it. :-p
<jbailey> lamont, Hey, it would be good to see you!
<NCommander> jbailey, mips was fucked for NPTL?
<jbailey> And Angie would talk you out of it.  She's too cute to say no to. =)
<lamont> jbailey: point.
<jbailey> NCommander, Yeah.  Had the same problem where the ABI hadn't been extended.
<jbailey> Think 2004.
<jbailey> long time ago.
<lamont> and then there are those pictures from that thing that time
<jbailey> MIPS Inc was still figuring it out.
<NCommander> From what I gather, implementing NPTL isn't that difficult, once you extend the ABI
<NCommander> Basically you need to get binutils to use the new fields, support the necessary relocations, get glibc and gcc to handle them, and implement the kernel helpers
<NCommander> That being said, Freescale has said repeatively to except m68k/TLS sometime soon
<jbailey> fabbione-vac, Vac?
<jbailey> fabbione-vac, You using a vacuum pump again?
<NCommander> (the toolchain exists with patches, I forgot what the hold up was)
<fabbione-vac> jbailey: that's the idea...
<jbailey> fabbione-vac, It's not worth it.
<fabbione-vac> ahha
<jbailey> err.
<jbailey> not
<jbailey> that
<jbailey> I would
<jbailey> know...
<fabbione-vac> yeah right
<fabbione-vac> ;)
<fabbione-vac> time for 3 days of full vacation
<fabbione-vac> that means I am going be so looking forward to go back to work and relax...
<jbailey> fabbione-vac, I promise not to tell your wife!
<fabbione-vac> ahha done deal ;)
<jbailey> fabbione-vac, Enjoy =)
<fabbione-vac> thanks
 * NCommander wonders if we'll see another port of Ubuntu in the not so distant future
<jbailey> Because the previous ones have worked so well? =)
<NCommander> jbailey, ARM and powerpc work quite well
<NCommander> SPARC works ok-ish if your not bitten by the SILO sucks bug
<jbailey> The PPC I was sad to get rid of.
<NCommander> jbailey, why?
<jbailey> Because it was a quad-core G5. =)
 * NCommander notes that PowerPC is still not a dead architecture (thanks IBM!)
<NCommander> jbailey, ack, why'd you toss it?
<jbailey> Wasn't going to be working on it anymore.
<jbailey> So I gave it to a kernel dev who said he'd give it love.
<NCommander> ;.;, I have one old PowerMac G4 which I use as a router
 * NCommander still wants to get the space heater, but ATM thats impossible
#ubuntu-ports 2009-04-29
<NCommander> lamont, you around?
#ubuntu-ports 2009-05-01
<lamont> NCommander: you around?
<lamont> nm
<NCommander> lamont, yes I am
<NCommander> lamont, was there something I could have helped you with?
 * NCommander returns to hitting the parisc kernel with a stick
<lamont> NCommander: google sufficed
<NCommander> lamont, ah, BTW, if you have some time, I have an outstanding RT ticket w.r.t. to the ports-kernel and zinc that would be lovely to be taken care of soonish
 * NCommander is currently fighting with the hppa config files
<lamont> NCommander: I assume that ticket has a list of which devs should be in the porters group, yes?
 * NCommander thinks so
<NCommander> lamont, rt #34122
<NCommander> lamont, and no I didn't, but its currently myself, and themuso (and probably one or two other people who I'm unsure if they have zinc accounts)
 * NCommander notes as soon as the next kernel upload goes, ia64 LiveCDs should be fixed
<lamont> kewl
<lamont> NCommander: and would be nice to get a custom jaunty livecd iso for ia64 somewhere...
<NCommander> lamont, want one?
<NCommander> lamont, *can build one for you fairly easily-ish*
<lamont> I have a user
<lamont> either live or alternate, don't care which, actually
<NCommander> lamont, feel like sponsoring some SRUs to fix the ports kernel?
<NCommander> lamont, the kernel in jaunty badly hosed w.r.t. to depends, I would need three or four SRUs to fix it
<NCommander> Alternative, we can throw sanity to the wind, and build the squashfs out of the karmic kernel which is close to fixed.
 * NCommander notes ubuntu-desktop is fairly hosed in jaunty; karmic alpha 1 probably would be happier :-/
<lamont> heh.  truthfully, I don't care too much if it's a data-center built iso... :-)
<NCommander> lamont, well, fixing jaunty would be painful, the kernel, kernel-meta, ubuntu-desktop, and probably a few other packages need SRUing
 * NCommander lacks the hardware :-/
<lamont> ah, ok.
<lamont> how about source + cookbook?
<NCommander> lamont, I have root access to an ia64 at HP, so I can run the livecd builds
<NCommander> lamont, I doubt I could get you a working base system. When I say the kernel is hosed, I mean uninstallable
<NCommander> I wasn't really planning to fix karmic :-/
<NCommander> s/karmic/jaunty/g
 * NCommander thinks
 * NCommander looks to see if hardy's kernel lines up with what the seeds think
<NCommander> How about a Hardy liveCD?
<NCommander> The kernel and the seeds agree on what is sane
<NCommander> I can build the remaining ia64 packages that need fixing in my PPA
<lamont> actually, that'd be cool
<NCommander> lamont, I'm trying to figure out why I know these
<NCommander> lamont, what variant do you want, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu?
<lamont> there's something other than ubuntu? :-D
<NCommander> Well, it looks like most of  ubuntu-desktop is there
<lamont> I think I got kubuntu CDs once...  still haven't run it ever though
 * NCommander is looking at the FTBFS list
<NCommander> Well, I'm judging which desktop package is "least broken"
<NCommander> When was the last time we tried to build an ia64-anything :-)
<lamont> 7.10
<lamont> 7.12 is when I quit HP
<NCommander> ubuntu-desktop IS installable on ia64
<NCommander> Lets find out if we can build the squashfs
<NCommander> If we can, we'll take a 7.10 liveCD, take out its rootfs, put in the hardy one, and blamo
<lamont> well, I  don't remember if 7.10 actually _worked_ mind you...
<NCommander> lamont, best get out of your ia64 and test :-)
<NCommander> But hardy looking fairly happy on ia64
<NCommander> At least I think I can build the rootfs, so if the kernel is bootable (and ubiquity works), your in business
<lamont> as far as running:  hardy: +1, intrepid: runs fine with hardy-kernel+intrepid-user, jaunty: runs fine (thanks NCommander )
<lamont> yeah - I testing ia64 is easy at the house.  testing hppa is almost as easy.
 * NCommander notes alternates are fairly difficult to build, so if I can get a liveCD to build, its MUCH easier
<NCommander> Paradoxially, the liveCDs are a *lot* simpler than the alternates
<NCommander> Hrm, we build an ia64 server CD
<NCommander> (for Hardy)
<NCommander> *built
<NCommander> lamont, that might be saner to have him use that, then install ubuntu-cd
<lamont> yeah
<NCommander> s/ubuntu-cd/ubuntu-desktop
<lamont> anyway, I'm told it's bedtime
<NCommander> or hop on anitmonthy and do a daily Hardy build :-)
<NCommander> lamont, have a good night
#ubuntu-ports 2009-05-02
<NCommander> lamont, so I have the karmic kernel on HPPA mostly sorted (its 2.6.30~rc3 based; I can also cook off a 2.6.28 or 2.6.29 kernel easily enough).  If we want to test this on the buildds, I need 1. port it to Hardy 2. make sure I can still build dapper packages with it (basically feed it the toolchain, right?)
<lamont> toolchain would tend to be a good test
<lamont> then throw python and ruby into the mix
 * lamont wanders back off
<NCommander> lamont, ok, got a victim machine the kernel can be installed on? 
 * NCommander isn't even sure the kernel can boot :-/
#ubuntu-ports 2009-05-03
<lamont> NCommander: sure
<lamont> j6700 - so 32 or 64-bit kernel is fine
<lamont> UP or SMP
<lamont> ideal test victim.
<lamont> OTOH, the other test machine is a B180, which needs 32-bit, and is UP
<NCommander> lamont, we have both hppa32 and 64 kernels :-)
<NCommander> lamont, the current packages are in my PPA built for HPPA (I haven't asked for a sponsor upload, because the last rebase broke the SPARC build :-/)
<lamont> "my ppa" == where?
<NCommander> lamont, https://edge.launchpad.net/~mcasadevall/+archive/ppa
 * NCommander wakes up and feels goodish
#ubuntu-ports 2018-05-05
<lamont> cd 
