#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-12
<dholbach> good morning
<nigelb> dholbach, hey.  got some time?
<dholbach> nigelb: a bit, yes
<nigelb> can you do a review of the current https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/GettingInvolved
<nigelb> the problem is we haven't run into all the use cases yet, so I'm still actively reviewing to come into all the use cases so I add them as examples
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> who should I mail with my feedback?
<nigelb> just ping me :)
<dholbach> persia, bryce, bdmurray, james_w, you? somebody else?
<nigelb> or mail me
<dholbach> I just thought it'd be good to keep the discussion in the team going :)
<dholbach> but I can mail just you too
<nigelb> dholbach, if you want to start a new thread with the entire discussion, I think thats fine too :)
<dholbach> I'll do it a bit later today, I first need to get some other stuff done
<dholbach> but I'll definitely do it today
<dholbach> thanks for your work on this!
<nigelb> lot more to go :)
<dholbach> :-)
<nigelb> oh and just to keep the motivation going
<nigelb> we have only 135 bugs in the "to be reviewed queue"
<Ciemon> nigelb: are those pre-freeze reviews?
<nigelb> Ciemon, well, we'll try to get as many before freeze as possible
<nigelb> but I dont think much will happen
<Ciemon> ok
<nigelb> like, I'm working on 6 bugs now.  I'll probably try and get all of them it :)
<Ciemon> I have some time, but my new patching knowledge often needs guidance
<Ciemon> ask Daviey :)
<nigelb> Ciemon, what part are you having trouble with
<Ciemon> oh, not trouble.. just lack of knowledge.
<Ciemon> :)
<nigelb> you can always ask in #ubuntu-motu, the responses are fairly fast
<Ciemon> yep, thanks
<Daviey> Ciemon wants to close 4 bugs with his branch
<Daviey> so that'll help the stats ! :)
<nigelb> you can do that :)
<nigelb> (actually encouraged, so that you dont clutter the rev numbers)
<Daviey> nigelb: yeah, he did have it as two items.. but the first one hadn't been sponsored yet, so he cleaned it down to 1
<nigelb> Daviey, nice :)
<nigelb> persia, any thoughts regarding what I PM'd you a few days back?
<persia> So, the last couple times you asked me, I replied in /query, and it seems not to have stuck.
<persia> Anyway, geser summed up my opinion fairly well in -motu when you asked there.
<nigelb> it was an unsure move anyway
<nigelb> so, any intersted devs can straight away join is better?
<persia> No.
<persia> But I suspect that any developer that comes by here and reads our procedures ought get in speedy-like.
<nigelb> the trouble I'm facing is recruiting review leads
<persia> Yeah, I'm expecting most of them to end up being me.
<persia> Although I hope you'll fill in any times you can.
<nigelb> I will
<nigelb> btw, cypher_mox has agreed to help too :)
<nigelb> and james__w and maco_ will depending on schedule then
<persia> Be aware that some folks have nifty highlighting that _ doesn't skip.
<nigelb> persia, I tried :D
<nigelb> crimsun if his schedule permits though his suspects he might be busy that week
<persia> I suspect many folks will be busy dealing with the sync flush + UDS preparation
<nigelb> if their script catches their name, not my fault :D
<nigelb> yup, thats what I'm afraid of
<nigelb> persia, if its any consolation, only 132 bugs in review queue
<nigelb> It can be reduced to 117 since a few of them are kernel or packages we need to ignore
<persia> Cool.  I've a couple things on my plate now, but will take a swipe through sometime tonight: maybe we can get down to < 100 :)
<nigelb> thats what I'm hoping for
<nigelb> what happens if we get it down to 0? party? :D
<persia> If you like, but there's still all the old patches to tackle.
<persia> If we get *that* down to 0, someone needs to start a new patch creation initiative.
<nigelb> yeah, its down to 1797
<nigelb> lol, so we'll have patch creation team :D
<persia> So, I'm expecting that in maverick+1 or maverick+2 we'll be able to have classes "How to fix bugs" for bugsquad again, and get more people contributing fixes.
<persia> Right.
<persia> And we'll encourage the patch creation team to follow-up with upstream, etc.
<persia> But that's the future: let's concentrate on the bugs we have now :)
<nigelb> we'd then we a *really really good* distro
<nigelb> s/we/be
<persia> I guess.  My thought is more that we ought leverage our strong point (lots of users) as much as possible to help everyone.
<nigelb> I was thinking we move the starting date up for the script once we get to less than 20
<persia> Sounds reasonable.
<nigelb> Let me get to work on a few patches, some of them can still be removed from review queue
<nigelb> ah, dan has given me more work on the wiki
<nigelb> are you up-to-date on mails?
<nigelb> dholbach, the patch-rejected-tag is to be used when upstream doesn't want to incorporate it in, when they want changes to it, it becomes patch-needswork.  See bug 33288
<ubot3> Malone bug 33288 in poppler "Evince doesn't handle columns properly" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33288
<dholbach> nigelb: right, I'm asking "when is patch-*-rejected tag going to be != patch-needswork"
<nigelb> dholbach, I'll hunt down a use case from gnome upstream
<dholbach> it would mean "ok we forwarded it upstream, they don't want it, but we'll use it anyway", right?
<nigelb> its like work that ayatana does
<nigelb> some stuff is ubuntu specific that upstream doesnt want in their code base
<nigelb> so they reject the patch, but if its something we'd like it, we'll know it was forwarded and they didn't want it in
<nigelb> persia, got anything to add to ^
<dholbach> I think it'd be better if we made the decision process so that we don't need those tags :-)
<dholbach> but it's basically just a foot note
<dholbach> nothing too important
<dholbach> I'd just prefer if we had less tags ;-)
<persia> I've had patched rejected as not-needswork.
<persia> For example, a patch to implement some feature that upstream said didn't belong in the software at all.
<dholbach> right
<persia> (I know: let's make dpkg a mailreader!)
<dholbach> in that case it'd still be a patch-needswork for us
<nigelb> hehe.  we could just change it to patch-rejected and add comments as to which upstream (debian vs all the way upstream)
<dholbach> we have an open bug that we want to resolve somehow
<persia> dholbach: Why?  How is adding mail reader support to dpkg "needs-work"?
<dholbach> if upstream says "please do it differently" that's the decision we want to hear
<persia> There's no sensible work that can improve that?
<dholbach> ok, then we won't fix the bug too
<nigelb> then we'd like to see why as soon as we open the bug
<persia> But patch-rejected-upstream != patch-rejected
<dholbach> all I'm saying is: if I have difficulties getting the sense of these tags, there will probably be a bunch of others who have more problems
<dholbach> :)
<persia> Quite possibly.
<dholbach> the decision tree is not quite clear and "patch-rejected-upstream" is in no way a "final stage of the bug or patch"
<persia> I suspect we need a significant body of data to actually interpret the tags properly.
<dholbach> I personally would have preferred tags that indicate what needs to be done with the bug / patch
<dholbach> so we could use them as working lists
<persia> No, patch-rejected-upstream only says that upstream didn't want it: we might want to carry it, or we might want to rework it.
<dholbach> but anyway
<persia> dholbach: Do you have an alternate strategy/workflow for all the tags?  If you've a better one, I'm sure the rest of us would be willing to adjust.
<dholbach> I proposed something in a mail I sent to the first discussions of the team
<dholbach> but I have a call coming up now
<persia> I see that, but I can't imagine how we can know what has been sent upstream, or what upstream responses we have with that.
<persia> Anyway, tell me after your call if you like :)
<nigelb> i'll try incorporate what you've suggested and yes, we're open to suggestions :)
<nigelb> So, when to forward to debian?  When issues are in something inside /debian and when upstream is dead and we still sync from debian?
<nigelb> persia, can reply ^ when you get time
<persia> I think we should forward to Debian whenever the issue expresses itself in Debian
<persia> That means testing in Debian, of course.
<persia> If we *also* forward upstream, it's trivial to tell the Debian BTS that it's been forwarded upsteam, and the Debian maintainer can make a determination as to how to proceed.
<nigelb> persia, lost power for 10 mins just after I asked you.  but got the answers :)
<nigelb> ok, so replied to dholbach's mail  :)
<nigelb> persia, we need to come up with something for bugs like bug 511502
<ubot3> Malone bug 511502 in xdvik-ja "TeXLive 2009 transition: libkpathsea5" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511502
<nigelb> there are patches, but all sponsored, but there are open tasks, so end up in review queue
<persia> I think the real solution is to convince people not to file those bugs, and complain when they do.
<nigelb> huh?
<persia> It's duplicate information (see the NBS page), and mostly useless.
<persia> Plus it annoys all sorts of folk who are subscribed to the packages.
<nigelb> yeah
<nigelb> There are a couple more of those bugs.  I'm waiting for update to the script to deal with these for now
<persia> Making them go away takes time and education.
<nigelb> isn't it easier to open multiple bugs?
<persia> No.  It's trivial to open a bug with lots of tasks.
<persia> It just happens to be completely useless for that class of issue.
<nigelb> Its mostly our developers themselves who do it :(
<persia> I know.
<persia> For now, I suggest the reviewers team completely ignore them.
<persia> If I can make them go away, I will, but I'm unsure I can do that easily.
<nigelb> or create lots of noise that people stop fililng it :D
<nigelbabu> persia, *sigh* oh well, your point just got re-emphasized
<nigelbabu> can PM me what you said after "nigelb> or create lots of noise that people stop fililng it :D" ?
<persia> No, because you're not here :)  But I didn't say anything, so perhaps I can, as the receipt of nothing would comply with the request to send nothing :)
<nigelbabu> persia, sometimes I wish you spoke English.
 * nigelbabu smirks
<nigelbabu> persia, so is there a way to show only 1 instace of those type of bugs?
<persia> Search only for a given source package :)
<nigelbabu> persia, :P  I meant in the review queue
<persia> I don't think so: we've had that issue in the sponsoring queue before.  Since the only sensible justification for those massive bugs is to help sponsor other people's NBS work, this makes it useless even for it's intended purpose.
<nigelbabu> sigh :x
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-13
<dholbach> good morning
<nigelb> sbeattie, I didn't understand part of your comments on the merge
<sbeattie> nigelb: which part?
<nigelb> the kernel part
<sbeattie> nigelb: I moved the list of kernel packages to a list variable outside the if test, because the list is likely to be edited frequently; the kernel team changes package names more frequently than shirts.
<nigelb> sbeattie, ah. +1 to the "changing package names more frequently than shirts" part
<sbeattie> Ideally, we'd be able to query launchpad and just get a set of packages that the kernel team is interested in and subscribe their representative (currently JFo) to those, eliminating the need to edit the script each time they add a new package.
<sbeattie> nigelb: does that clarify my comment?
<nigelb> sbeattie, yup :)
<qense> nigelb: You might want to take a look at these two UDS blueprints that were just accepted by Jorge: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-patch-review-process and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-patch-review-initiative
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-14
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-15
<nigelb> bdmurray, so we need to somehow code the script to look for packages the kernel team is interested in?
<nigelb> re: the patch subscription scipt
<nigelb> oh yaay 112 open bugs in review queue
<bdmurray> well, that'd be ideal
<bdmurray> no it'd be ideal if it was exported in the api
<bdmurray> the list is fairly static so just matching the two up for now should be fine
<nigelb> okay, i'll get a new rev in tonight :)
<nigelb> ubuntu-imx is not in the kernel team subscribed packages, which means it can be dropped?
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-16
<dholbach> good morning
<nigelb> ugh, mouse not working is frustrating
<nigelb> persia, I talked to brian about the possibility of ~ubuntu-dev being a member of ~ubuntu-reviews http://paste.ubuntu.com/415554/
<persia> I really think that's a horrid idea, as I stated before.
<nigelb> ouch
<nigelb> ;)
<persia> See the transcript of your convesation with geser in -motu or /query with me for rationale.
<nigelb> dholbach, we can either have a Patch Day Lite (tm) or just do the example stuff after The Patch Day
<dholbach> the former :)
<nigelb> hm, that means, all of us founding members need to pick a day and review like 25 patches
<dholbach> what do you think about having a call next week to discuss what still needs doing and stuff?
<nigelb> call?
<dholbach> yeah, like chat about it :)
<nigelb> skype you mean?
<dholbach> skype or empathy or whatever else :)
<nigelb> yeah, sure.  I'll free up my schedule for a day
<dholbach> I'm sure we'll get an idea what needs doing quite quickly :)
<nigelb> I can make a list of what needs to be done soon and get to work on it before patch day
<dholbach> maybe we can have a chat on monday or tuesday :)
<nigelb> review queue stands at 111, I hope we can get it to 0 on patch day :)
<nigelb> Monday!
<dholbach> and maybe I can help out with a bit of it
<nigelb> oh, great :)
<dholbach> Monday is good, I just have a call from 16-17 utc
<dholbach> maybe before that?
<nigelb> how about 1300 UTC?
<dholbach> that sounds fantastic to me :)
<nigelb> Great.  I'll set a reminder on my phone and I'll get to work on the wiki modifications that can be done now :)
<dholbach> great :)
<nigelb> qense, thanks for those UDS session links :)
<nigelb> *spec
<qense> nigelb: you're welcome :)
<nigelb> :)
<qense> nigelb: We ought to have talked about the GUI by now, didn't we?
<nigelb> qense, should have.  only I'm waiting for the reviews team stuff to settle down
<qense> ok
<qense> nigelb: Ping me when you're ready for it.
<nigelb> qense, sure.  if you want to start without me, its fine too :)
<qense> nigelb: I'm not sure if that's a good idea, considering the amount of knowledge I have of the process, but who knows. ;)
<nigelb> qense, I only know the process and far little coding
<qense> nigelb: sounds perfect!
<nigelb> hyperair, can you take another look at bug 528686?
<ubot3> Malone bug 528686 in apt-watch "Please merge apt-watch 0.3.2-14 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528686
<hyperair> nigelb: launchpad is being extremely stupid to my region at the moment. what's this revision 19 allisson was talking about?
<hyperair> nigelb: and is there any justification for introducing that particular debian-ubuntu delta/
<nigelb> hyperair, I guess there was one rev, where ubuntu modified the config directly instead of through a patch
<hyperair> ?
<nigelb> hyperair, you want the ubuntu version?
<nigelb> its 0.3.2-13ubuntu1
<hyperair> nigelb: what?
<hyperair> no wait, i think i get what's going on now.
<hyperair> nigelb: i think config.guess was accidentally modified by someone who did not check his diffs properly before uploading.
<nigelb> hyperair, yep
<hyperair> nigelb: which is why i'm requesting the change be dropped.
<nigelb> hyperair, oh.  can you fix it and upload (since we're so late in the cycle)
<hyperair> oh
<nigelb> I'm just trying to reduce the size of the review queue :)
<hyperair> nigelb: we may need FFe.
<nigelb> ah.  arg.
<nigelb> hyperair, the change needing to be dropped has to be talked to whoever made the change right?
<hyperair> nigelb: probably.
<nigelb> hyperair, differ to lucid+1 or do it now?
<hyperair> nigelb: i don't think there's anything particularly important, but it did mention something about synaptic having a fit.
<hyperair> nigelb: but if synaptic did have a fit, i think this would have been prioritized higher and noticed
<nigelb> hyperair, setresgid(0,0,0); looks important?
<hyperair> nigelb: see the comment.
<hyperair> nigelb: ideally, i'd contact the debian maintainer and squeeze this out of him to determine if it's worth FFeing and uploading, but i haven't the time to do so.
<hyperair> nigelb: (think ~2months of study backlog for 4 modules and exams looming in 1 week)
<nigelb> hyperair, um, packages.ubuntu.com says apt-watch is a transitional package
<nigelb> aah, it just got split up
<nigelb> I'll just consider if deferred or deal with it when *I* get the time :)
<nigelb> hyperair, I'll just consider if deferred or deal with it when *I* get the time :)
<hyperair> nigelb: look at the source package, not th binary.
<hyperair> nigelb: deferred it is then.
<hyperair> nigelb: do you have milestone changing powers or shall i set it?
<nigelb> I have, I'll set it
<nigelb> ubuntu later?
<hyperair> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> done
<qense> hyperair: I think we have a duplicate of your Critical one in bug #564351
<ubot3> Malone bug 564351 in indicator-application "Fails to install library to GAC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564351
<qense> I'm afk, btw
<hyperair> qense: it's another bug.
<qense> ok
<qense> hyperair: another... ;)
<hyperair> qense: sorry, i thought you meant the one i *just* filed.
<qense> hyperair: the bug I just linked to in this chat is not a duplicate, or is it?
<hyperair> qense: duplicate to another critical one i filed..
<hyperair> qense: there were two critical bugs i've filed against ind-app
<hyperair> one was the original issue which i partially fixed
<hyperair> then i missed the .pc file
<hyperair> which caused bce to die.
<qense> hyperair: yeah, I got pinged by someone about that.
<qense> hyperair: did you see the patch from Jo Shields?
<hyperair> qense: i asked him to make it.
<qense> ah!
<hyperair> qense: scroll up and read what i said about 2months and 1week.
<hyperair> qense: my brain's internal schedule tells me my ircing time slice is up, so back to study for me :-)
<qense> hyperair: ok, thank you for your answer
<hyperair> qense: ....i thought i told you that the bug was not a duplicate of the one i just filed, but the one earlier!
<malev> hi there! I was surfing in the wiki and I found your team. I'm at bug 528567. what can I do to applier
<ubot3> Malone bug 528567 in exaile "Ubuntu One Music Store plugin" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528567
<malev> the patch?
<malev> I got it, don't worry!!
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-17
<nigelb> persia, thinking of changing those numbers to only the bugs in review queue
<nigelb> um, /topic
<persia> Why?
<nigelb> looks smaller? :D
<nigelbabu> vish, poke
<yofel> hm, about bug 532174 - should I file a bug at debian for this as the code that I changed comes from there?
<ubot3> Malone bug 532174 in sun-java6 "[Lucid] sun-java6-plugin not recognized by firefox anymore" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532174
<nigelbabu> yofel, what is the package called?  I can't fun java in packages.ubuntu.com
<yofel> nigelbabu: it's in partner
<nigelbabu> aah
<nigelbabu> yofel, anyway, can you reproduce the issue in debian?
<nigelbabu> or find a corresponding bug report?
<yofel> ah, nvm, Matthias already did the work, got mislead by the outdated version info in the debian repos, the source package is already fixed there
<nigelbabu> great :)
<nigelbabu> yofel, I lost time looking for an Ubuntu changelog
<nigelbabu> (which I still haven't found btw)
<yofel> should show here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/6.19-0ubuntu3 but I get an OOPS
<nigelbabu> yofel, the non-free ones dont show up in packages.ubuntu.com?
<nigelbabu> ideally, I like to see a changelogs.ubuntu.com file
<yofel> I'm not sure, sun-java6 was moved from multiverse to canonical/partner a while ago, doesn't seem keep changelogs on changelogs.ubuntu.com
<nigelbabu> ah, so how do you get source etc?
<yofel> well, the packages are still on LP so you can get it from there or add the deb-src line for the partner repos, works fine
<nigelbabu> ah, ok :)
<yofel> I have the deb and deb-src lines for debian here too and was confused as unstable shows as binary 6.17 while the source I got was 6.20
<yofel> ftbs I guess
<nigelbabu> or still building
<yofel> true
<nigelbabu> I see 6.19-0ubuntu3 on the site
<nigelbabu> the .deb for it
<qense> nigelbabu: you can track my work at lp:~qense/mergimus/trunk
<qense> in time we can move the branch over to a team
<qense> I'm just playing a bit with the code for now
<nigelbabu> qense, great :)
<qense> nigelbabu: branch transferred to mergimus-dev
<nigelbabu> awesome :)
<nigelbabu> qense, that was fast work :)
#ubuntu-reviews 2010-04-18
<nigelb> After subscribing to the patch review mailing list, I realise how active ubuntu contributors are
<nigelb> every day we have a bunch of patches
<nigelb> 6 new patches today
