#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-09
 * gmb -> lunch
<gary_poster> benji danilos gmb, hi!  skype in 2?
<danilos> gary_poster, hi there, ack
<gmb> Yep
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji, you online?
<benji> gary_poster: yep
<gary_poster> benji, approved
<gary_poster> bye y'all
<benji> thanks and bye
<bac> hi gmb, benji
<gmb> Hi bac
<benji> hey!  how's it going?
<bac> gmb: i'm giving my talk tomorrow.  is there anything substantial that has changed in the last week wrt subscription work?
<gmb> bac: Not AFAIK.
<bac> benji: pretty good.  lots of nerds here!
<gmb> It's been all fixin.
<bac> gmb: cool
<bac> gmb: so does 'unsubscribe in anger' actually work?  i've never used it before
<gmb> bac: Er. Neither have I :). I believe there are some little weirdnesses (like you get told that you "don't have permission" to change team subscriptions when you're not a team admin).
<gmb> Other than that, though it works, AIUI. I think danilos might know better than I since ISTR he did the lion's share of the work on it.
<gmb> I just mocked it up.
<bac> gmb: hmm, ok.  but it is on production?  guess i should make a structural subscription and see what the email looks like
<bac> gmb: ok, i'll ask him tomorrow
<gmb> bac: It is: c.f. http://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+subscriptions
<gmb> Ah
<gmb> ISWYM.
<gmb> The email bit I don't know about.
<gmb> Gmail hides a lot of things from me. Let me see...
<bac> gmb so the UIA part is really just +subscriptions?
<bac> i thought there was a different page
<gmb> bac: I'm getting confused with https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/779538/+subscriptions
<_mup_> Bug #779538: Link from superseded blueprint to its successor disappears when you click it <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/779538 >
<gmb> (For example)
<gmb> Which is a different page altogether and *does* fit the UIA story.
<gmb> But I see no link thereto in any of today's bugmail.
<gmb> So it seems like it's only partially live, which is odd.
 * bac looks
<bac> hmm
<danilos> bac, the link is not added to the email
<danilos> bac, I am pretty sure gary wanted to add it only when it's available to everybody
<gmb> Ah, of course.
<danilos> bac, (iow, when we are out of the beta)
<gmb> Because trying to feature-flag that would be a nightmare, I suspect.
<bac> ok, thanks danilos
<danilos> bac, gmb: "Edit bug mail" is a link to get to that page basically
<bac> right
<gmb> yep
<danilos> np
<bac> gmb: did you get email from me about the UDS session?  i sent it to yellow but don't see it in the archvies
 * gmb checks
<bac> it may have been from the wrong email address and got silently dropped...
<gmb> bac: I got it.
<gmb> Tomorrow at 14:15 UTC, right?
<bac> gmb: yes
<gmb> bac: I'll try to participate, providing my OCR duties don't conflict.
<bac> gmb: there is audio but only one way.  otherwise you can join #ubuntu-uds-petofi (the physical room name)
<gmb> Ok
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-10
<bac> good morning danilos
<danilos> bac, oh, good morning
<danilos> bac, how's UDS going so far?
<bac> not used to people chatting here at this hour?  :)
<bac> uds is good.  in a firefox translations session atm
<bac> you can join at #ubuntu-uds-dery if you're interested
<bac> danilos: ^^
<danilos> bac, heh, right :)
<danilos> bac, thanks, I'll join in, not sure I can participate heavily with all the other stuff I've got to do today
<bac> danilos: np.  just thought i'd mention it.  certainly not required
<danilos> bac, I can't hear anything, is something supposed to be happening atm?
<bac> you should be able to hear
<bac> others have said the audio was working
<danilos> right, it might be my side then
<bac> any audio now danilos ?
<danilos> bac, nope
<bac> i summoned elmo but he hasn't shown up yet
<bac> now?
<danilos> bac, I haven't used totem/vlc for playing these streams yet, so I can't be sure if it's not on my side (since I don't know if it ever worked)
<danilos> bac, thus, I am not complaining loudly
<bac> it isn't you
<bac> sorry for the bad session, danilos.  did the audio ever work?  i had to leave early.
<danilos> bac, yeah, 2 minutes before the end of it :)
<danilos> gmb, hi, I see your fix for 772609 has landed, but even if I merge devel, I don't see the "mute link" show up when there is a direct team subscription on a bug
<danilos> gmb, was that supposed to be fixed as well?
<gmb> danilos: Hrm. Yes. Thanks for the heads-up.
<danilos> gmb, np, I was hoping to wrap up bug 771204 fix, and noticed that mute link should show up even for team subscriptions; I'll take care of the JS side at least :)
<_mup_> Bug #771204: mute link does not appear when a new direct subscription is made on a bug <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by danilo> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/771204 >
<gmb> danilos: Ah, it got rolled back because it had the side effect of exposingd stuff for private bugs.
<gmb> (Which caused OOPSes. William has filed a bug about it.)
<danilos> gmb, oh... can we do something about it?
<gmb> danilos: I think so. I need to check what the expected behaviour on private bugs actually is (William's bug suggests that getIndirectSubscribers() should always be empty in that case). Slightly odd that we don't have a test for that, but not wholly unsurprising :/
<gmb> I'll have a proper dig around in a minute, just grabbing a drink first.
<danilos> gmb, sure thing
<danilos> gmb, also, I am a bit confused about the use of feature_flag_2 (advanced-STRUCTURAL-subscriptions flag) in test "test_mute_subscription_link_not_shown_for_non_subscribers" (regardless of your branch, because I am changing the link to always be in the DOM [but hidden] so JS can easily show it when needed)
<gmb> Ok
<gmb> danilos: Just pulling up that code now...
<danilos> gmb, ack
<gmb> danilos: Uhm. I'm not sure why that's there, actually. It's a change that bac made but I can't remember why it was done. It doesn't seem to serve any purposes, as far as I can tell.
<gmb> danilos: I suspect that if you pull that with FeatureFixture line out the test will still pass.
<danilos> gmb, yeah, it seems to be a bit silly test: asserts that link doesn't show up when feature_flag_1 is not on, which is a nice negative test, but a bit misnamed then
<danilos> gmb, right
<gmb> danilos: Yeah, it should set the flag to 'on', not None.
<danilos> gmb, I'll clean up that test
<gmb> Otherwise it's always going to pass.
<danilos> gmb, it's the wrong flag as well, that's what made me wonder the most
<gmb> Ah, yes, it is.
<gmb> That tool.
<gmb> Too*
<gmb> (Not trying to say bac is a tool in any way, shape or form)
<danilos> hahaha
<danilos> ok then, I'll clean that test up to be only for "nothing shows up when the (right) flag is off"
<danilos> and add a new one which tests all it needs to (along with the 'hidden' class which I am adding)
<gmb> Right, cool.
<gmb> Thanks :)
<danilos> no, thank you for helping out :)
<danilos> benji, gmb: shall we have a call?
<benji> I'm fine either way.
<gmb> I've nothing much to add to yesterday's to be honest.
<gmb> OCR + rolled back branch is keeping me busy.
<benji> pretty much the same here, finishing up one bug fix, about to do another
<gary_poster> hi all
<gary_poster> I'm just here for a sec
<gary_poster> gmb, mockup ok?  you need my input for anything?
<gary_poster> danilos, benji, everything ok with you all?
<benji> gary_poster: things are peachy
<gary_poster> yay :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: I've only touched on them briefly this morning (so far so good); my branch from the weekend got rolled back as it caused some issues with private bugs, so I'm fixing that first.
<gary_poster> gmb, ah, ok, makes sense
<danilos> gary_poster, yeah, just fine, thanks :)
<gary_poster> ok cool :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, I am a bit late with the email, but it'll go out soon
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> np
<gary_poster> I'll run away then :-)
<gary_poster> bye and have a great day!
<danilos> cheers, tty tomorrow
<bac> just saw the bug subscription notification window for the first time.  nice!
<bac> the UDS session begins in five minutes.  follow along at #ubuntu-uds-krudy if you want.
<gmb> benji, danilos: Can one of you review https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-772609-again/+merge/60513 for me? It's my fix for the issue that caused wgrant to roll back last night's change; I've pasted the salient bits of the diff in a comment.
<benji> gmb: sure
<gmb> benji: Although I've pasted garbage, let me just update that...
<benji> :)
<gmb> Must've hit pageup before copying
<gmb> benji: New comment has sensible diff.
<benji> k
<benji> gmb: done
<gmb> benji: Ta
 * danilos -> out
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-11
<danilos> gmb, hi, do you think it makes sense to have a bug activity record for muting/unmuting a bug? (I assume that's what bug.addChange did in subscribe/unsubscribe)
<gmb> danilos: I'm torn between "I don't know when anyone would make use of that" and "If it's easy, we might as well" to be honest.
<gmb> If it'll take you more than half an hour to do I'd be tempted to not bother.
<danilos> gmb, I'd have to check what does bug.addChange exactly do, and I kinda feel lazy if it doesn't seem very useful :)
<danilos> gmb, there's more important things I'd do first
<gmb> danilos: Yeah. I wouldn't be too concerned about adding it unless you need something to fill up the last hour or so of your day.
<danilos> gmb, right, I'll see about that later
<danilos> now I just need a reviewer because OCR told me he doesn't want to have anything to do with my branches
<gmb> Haha.
<gmb> danilos: Ignore him, he's well known for being awkward.
<gmb> I'll take a look at it for you.
<danilos> gmb, I know!
<danilos> gmb, cool, https://code.launchpad.net/~danilo/launchpad/proper-bug-muting/+merge/60615 :)
<gmb> I'll take a look shortly.
<gary_poster> Does Microsoft's acquisition of Skype mean that we should no longer use it? :-)
<danilos> gary_poster, it means we should at least switch to windows :)
<danilos> I'll probably have to check my hard disk drive for defects and reinstall the system if I want mumble back, though :/
<gary_poster> ack danilos :-/
<gmb> gary_poster: I've pushed basic mockups for the "also notified people" up here: lp:~yellow/launchpad/also-notified-people-mockups. That's based loosely on what we said on the call the other day, but I suspect it's too simplistic a solution.
<gary_poster> gmb, awesome, I'll take a look.  Are you still working on bug 778847 too?
<_mup_> Bug #778847: Muting a bug subscription for a team with a contact address crashes getRecipientFilterData <oops> <regression> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/778847 >
<gmb> gary_poster: Yes. I'm hanging fire until danilos's BugMute branch lands, though, to avoid collisions.
<danilos> gmb, mine is against db-devel, so you should probably land it anyway
<gmb> danilos: Ah, fair point.
<gary_poster> ok cool, I won't ask that it be marked as blocked then :-)
<gmb> In that case I'll get that reviewed and into EC2 today and keep an eye on conflicts when devel gets merged to db-devel.
<gary_poster> benji danilos gmb, kanban nowish, mumble in 3
<gary_poster> s/mumble/skype/ :-P
<danilos> thank you :)
<gary_poster> np, just oversight
<danilos> I had to click through the EULA before it'd load :)
<gary_poster> hh
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> not ready for call yet; will hopefully be ready in 10
<danilos> sure thing
<gary_poster> danilos, uh :-) .  So, everything is handled with house visitor (== refrigerator repairman :-P ) but I have to take kids to school in 9 minutes.  I imagine we want to have a relaxed call, not a "gary will leave any second" call? :-)  If so, maybe roughly 30 minutes from now?
<gary_poster> uh-oh smiley face overload
<gary_poster> My defence is too little sleep
<gary_poster> defense
<danilos> gary_poster, sure, go for it, and we'll talk later
<gary_poster> ok thanks
<danilos> gmb, I can take that branch for review if you want as well :)
<gmb> danilos: I'd let you, too, if I could get this damn test to pass :)
<danilos> gmb, that's just nitpicking :)
<gmb> Heh
<gmb> Oh hey, turns out things land quicker if you actually put your password in when prompted for it.
<benji> I have the same problem.
<benji> gary_poster: I sent Huw an email about whether or not he approved of my approach for bug 771335 a week ago.  I haven't heard anything back so I'm just going to land it today.
<_mup_> Bug #771335: Title of add subscription widget can wrap if long. <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by benji> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/771335 >
<gary_poster> benji, cool.  I saw the ellipsis thing, and I liked the idea.  That's the kind of thing I had in mind.
<gary_poster> does your approach fix all instances of that overlay, or just ours?
<gary_poster> benji, isd has a branch replacing their use of lazr.restful with piston, so we may be back to being the only client, which is too bad, but easier
<benji> gary_poster: the ellipsis thing was just for that dialog; I hadn't considered generalizing it, but that's a good idea.  I'll see if it can be done without too much work.
<gary_poster> Now is the month of maying, when we have to look at our year review and bonus/raising, fa la la la la la la... (with apologies to Thomas Morley)
<benji> gary_poster: re. ISD; unfortunate, but certainly an interesting datapoint; voting with their feet and all that
<gary_poster> so I'll be contacting al of you to set up these calls soon
<benji> heh
<gary_poster> benji, generalizing ellipisis: cool.  ISD datapoint: yeah
<gary_poster> ok, back in a few min, and then will ping d a n i l o s (don't tell him--it will be a big surprise!!!!)
<benji> gary_poster: I've verified that all my cards that were in no-downtime-deploy are indeed deployed and moved them to done-done
<gary_poster> great thanks benji
<gary_poster> ok danilos, my time estimates are particularly bad this morning, but...I'M READY!!! whenever you are
<danilos> gary_poster, calling then :)
<gary_poster> k :-)
<gary_poster> danilos I lost you
<gary_poster> says you are offline
<gary_poster> gmb, on of the things we discussed on Monday for the mockups was to investigate how well we could estimate the "other subscriber".  Right now we load the portlet conditionally ; I expect we'll want to change this to draw the portlet immediatey and get the data for the "view other subscribers" box as needed
<gary_poster> did you have any thoughts on that?
<gmb> gary_poster: Some, but nothing well fleshed-out (got sidetracked with yesterday's rollback). I'll have a think about it this afternoon and get back to you.
<gary_poster> Also, your other subscribers does not distinguish between... ok call with danilos
<gmb> Haha
 * gmb -> heading out to run errands
<gary_poster> hey benji, do you think you will be looking for a new task later today, or are you booked?
<benji> gary_poster: yep, I'll need something either this afternoon or first thing in the morning, depending on if I give up on the click-to-close message function and generalizing the ellipsis thing
<gary_poster> benji, danilos has a collaboration opportunity, so if you could work on something significantly today, it would be worth connecting with him.  However, it requires a bit of predicting the future, because he has EoD Real Soon Now.  If, best guess, you only think you'll have a couple of hours today at most, then I suggest not worrying about it.  If there's a good chance you would have a full half day, go ahead and ta
<benji> gary_poster: it depends mostly on how much we value those two things; is it worth keeping the click-to-close message box link and generalizing the ellipsis bit (which I haven't looked at yet)
<benji> if so, it'll probably take most of if not all of today to do both
<benji> I really like the click-to-close bits, but it's not a world-changer by any means
<gary_poster> benji, generalizing: low priority for me.  click-to-close message box link: removing it would not be ideal, but we could do that and claim victory; we can't ignore the mute stuff.  Therefore, if you've started  the proper fix for click-to-close, and I think you have, then continue; if you have not, I suggest postponing it till the two big scary jobs are done.
<gary_poster> benji, generalizing: if you don't generalize, a bug pointing out the general problem and suggesting our local solution would be a good alternative
<benji> re. click-to-close: yeah, I've started (twice, unfortunately, my first one didn't turn out so well), so I'll try to finish that up.  After that I'll look at the generalizing and see how likely that is to succeed and then either do it or file a bug
<gary_poster> ok.  So, benji, danilos, it looks like we will recheck tomorrow to see if there is a Collaboration Opportunity (TM)
<danilos> gary_poster, ack
<benji> k
 * danilos -> afk
<gary_poster> gmb, when you are back, I'd like a call
<gary_poster> if it is not past your EoD, of course
<gmb> gary_poster: I'm back, finally. Aparrently bus timetables are things that Stagecoach Lancaster is aware of but doesn't pay much attention to.
<gmb> So, call?
<gary_poster> gmb, heh.  how much more time do you have?  I'm finishing up a mockup revision, and we could talk from there
<gary_poster> but if you quit soon I'm pretty close
<gmb> gary_poster: I'll be around for at least a couple of hours; I need to make up the time I lost twiddling my thumbs at the bus station.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> gmb, ok, I'll try to call in 5; if today's other time estimates are any indication, it will be 10 or 15 minutes
<gmb> Okay. Just time for me to make a cup of tea, then :)
<gary_poster> cool :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, I committed a new mockup to the same branch and pushed it to the same ~yellow
<gary_poster> lemme know when you have it and then we can talk
<gmb> Cool, I'll grab it now.
<gary_poster> thanks
<gary_poster> oh, I forgot something
<gmb> Hmm. Something wrong with codehosting?
<gmb> I can't seem to pull the branch...
<gmb> Ah well, working this time.
<gary_poster> gmb, good, cause I just pushed another version :-P
<gmb> gary_poster: Okay, all set.
<gary_poster> cool
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-12
 * gary_poster needs to get back in the habit of joining IRC first thing...
 * gary_poster enjoyed getting out of the habit :-P
 * gmb -> grabbing a bite to eat; back for the call
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji, gmb, finishing an email, but Skype in just a sec.  Please make sure kanban is OK now.
<benji> gary_poster: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.importance%3Alist=CRITICAL&field.importance%3Alist=HIGH&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&fiel
<gmb> gary_poster: Are we still having a call?
<benji> gary_poster: the official name for those things seems to be "embroidery hoop"
<gary_poster> benji, cool, thanks :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, call in 1?
<gmb> gary_poster: Yep.
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> gmb, we do handle things properly for sending emails, pretty sure...
<gary_poster> (in lp.bugs.model.structuralsubscription, get_structural_subscription_targets looks at bugtask.target.parent_subscription_target, which for a product will be a project)
<gmb> Ok.
<gmb> I'll double-check, but I'm 95% certain that we have tests to cover sending structural subscription emails for project groups.
<gary_poster> yeah, I would have expected it
<gmb> The UI and the email stuff are worlds apart, really.
<gary_poster> I was just concerned because I hadn't thought of it
<gmb> I know that feeling all too well.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, lp.bugs.model.structuralsubscription has the problem in two methods: get_structural_subscriptions_for_target and get_structural_subscriptions_for_bug .  Fixing the latter will also affect a bug's also_notified_subscribers, fwiw.
 * gary_poster leaving you alone now :-)
<gmb> gary_poster: Thanks for the guidance :)
<gary_poster> np :-)
 * gary_poster should have said two *functions*
<gmb> Hah. Indeed.
<gary_poster> benji, crazy idea: if the team's contact address is a mailing list controlled by Launchpad, and we can tell this (I expect we can), and we can tell that the person is or is not a member of the mailing list, then we could offer a link to unsubscribe from the mailing list as a remediation action.
<gary_poster> rephrase: if the team's contact address is a mailing list controlled by Launchpad, and the person is subscribed to the mailing list, then we could offer a link.
<gary_poster> An interesting question then is what to do if the person is not subscribed to the mailing list
<benji> gary_poster: good idea; and I assume that if they aren't a member of the mailing list we would act as if the team didn't have a contact address at all (?)
<gary_poster> in that case, it would seem that the subscription might not be pertinent then...
<gary_poster> we could not render it, or render it with some "grayed out" visualization or something
<gary_poster> I think we should still render it somehow
<gary_poster> so people can see that it exists and why it does not affect them...*especially* after they have made a change
<gary_poster> (e.g., unsubscribed from mailing list)
<benji> hmm, that could work;  would strike-through be too much?  it only really works for short bits of text
<gary_poster> yeah, this is a whole box
<gary_poster> I don't think strike-through would be good
<gary_poster> being grayed out sounds decent, the more I think about it
<gary_poster> we wouldn't offer an in-page change for this
<gary_poster> so we wouldn't have to worry about too many controls on a "diabled" box
<gary_poster> disabled
<gary_poster> benji, if we gray this out, we have to gray the "opt out from this subscription" too, I just realized.
<benji> k
<gary_poster> so I suppose another option is just having extra text like we do for the opt-out thing.
<gary_poster> benji, I'm cool with you making a call.  If I'm around, I'd love to see what you decided on for the chance to make tweaks, but don't block on me.
<benji> sounds good
<benji> gary_poster: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/781729, hopefully it captures the problem in a reasonable way.
<_mup_> Bug #781729: Direct subscription controls are (mostly) ineffectual if subscribed via a team with a contact address <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/781729 >
<gary_poster> Cool, thanks benji.  Looks good.  I'll add a comment
<benji> k
<gary_poster> benji, are you ok with having our performance review report tomorrow @4 (the same time as our Thursday call)?
<gary_poster> performance review report *call* that is
<benji> gary_poster: sure
<gary_poster> cool
<gary_poster> benji, I just carefully composed an email to you, and then sent it from our family email address. :-P .  Maybe even twice for good measure, though I'm not sure how I managed that.  I'll resend from Canonical; apologies for the dupes.
<benji> heh
<benji> I've come close to doing the same thing.
<gary_poster> benji, ok resent
<gary_poster> gmb, also sent you one.
<gmb> gary_poster: Just got it, thanks. I'll take a look shortly.
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> gary_poster: Separately, amusing one-line fix for part of bug 777783: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/606538
<_mup_> Bug #777783: Project +subscriptions doesn't show subscriptions to the project group <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by gmb> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/777783 >
<benji> gary_poster: got them; tell Karyn that I appreciate her input on my review
<gmb> Quick version, having the __helper cached for products means that when get_structural_subscription_targets() is called, and it looks up the  parent_subscription_target, it gets None back, because the __helper was initialised before the Product knew about its Project.
<gmb> I do not know why this happens in the real world, however.
<gary_poster> gmb, fix: heh and argh
<gary_poster> benji, I'll pass that along :-)
<gary_poster> gmb, that means somebody is asking for that value and getting the wrong answer though :-(
<gary_poster> I think that cachedproperty doesn't cache unless somebody asks for the value
<gmb> gary_poster: You're right, it doesn't.
<gmb> So yes, something is asking for it somewhere.
<gmb> I'm going to carry on fixing this, but I'm also going to push this into ec2 and see what breaks.
 * benji lunches.
<gary_poster> So I think that the test is right, but it should stay a cachedproperty
<gmb> (And if nothing breaks, I will be slightly concerned).
<gmb> gary_poster: Yes, I agree. Some pdb fun might have to happen here, I thikn.
<gary_poster> and we should fix why it is not being initially set properly
<gary_poster> yeah
<gmb> That's what makes the least sense to me.
<gary_poster> if you need another pair of eyes, ask
<gmb> I mean, in the case of the test, I understand it.
<gmb> Because i create the product and then set the project.
<gmb> But even if I do something like:
<gmb> ... ah, no. The factory does the same thing.
<gmb> I wonder what happens if I re-fetch the project from the store...
 * gmb goes to try that
<gary_poster> ack
<gary_poster> I'm going to go for a walk, and have lunch and such.  biab
<gmb> gary_poster: Do you know how to invalidate the storm cache for an object?
<gary_poster> try committing transaction and just getting it again?
<gary_poster> IOW, no :-P
<gmb> Heh.
<gmb> Okay, I'll try the big hammer first.
<gary_poster> k :-)
<benji> gary_poster: you may be on the phone, but it just occurred to me that we're going to have the same changing-your-direct-subscriptions-might-not-reduce-your-mail-level problem with the mute link on the bug page
<gary_poster> benji, yes.  I think that's already handled in the mockups for bug 772754 though
<_mup_> Bug #772754: After better-bug-notification changes, list of bug subscribers is confusing <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/772754 >
<benji> ah, cool
<gary_poster> benji, ready whenever you are
#launchpad-yellow 2011-05-13
<gary_poster> danilos, if you are around, I'd like to chat about whether we can move ahead on the mute work without you.
<gary_poster> benji, gmb, skype in a sec
<gmb> Righto
<gary_poster> gmb, almost ready.
<gmb> gary_poster: Okay. I'm ready when you are.
<gmb> gary_poster: Ah, I was wrong about the linter. It does pick up the PDB call; I just didn't spot it because there was a lot of other things wrong with the file I added it to :).
<gary_poster> gmb, lol, ok cool
<gmb> Maybe it should flash it in red letters.
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> gary_poster: you said that there was code that already does some sort of "you can contact this team by mailing their contact address" behavior; can you give me any more pointers to that?  I can't find it.
<gary_poster> benji, I don't know. :-)  Let me look; I know what I meant, but maybe I was mistaken...
<benji> thanks
<gary_poster> benji, search for "CONTACT_TEAMS" in lib/lp/bugs/javascript/subscription.js
<benji> ah! thanks
<benji> gary_poster: I finally have everything coming together for my bug.  I like this version that doesn't use explanitory text but I'm afrade it will be too subtle: http://i.imgur.com/3XFjR.png
<benji> (me realized Gary may be on a call)
 * gary_poster looks
<gary_poster> no
<benji> cool
<benji> the rain fritzes out my telepathy
<gary_poster> :-)
<benji> also note that the text in the two boxes just below "Other subscriptions" could use more margin between the prose and the action.  If you agree, I'll fix that too.
<gary_poster> most definitely, though I was wondering if there might be better solutions to that problem.  Considering...
<gary_poster> yeah, ok I agree that more margin is sufficient for that problem.  Still considering other bits...
<gary_poster> After consideration, I'm ok with not having explanatory text in the abstract, but there's a problem I would like to be solved.  One solution would be to add some explanatory text, but I can imagine another, and I expect there are yet more reasonable options.
<gary_poster> The problem is that the user should know what to ask the administrators to change.
<gary_poster> In this case, there are two options
<benji> mm, good point
<gary_poster> The administrator could change the subscription
<gary_poster> or the administrator could remove the contact address
<gary_poster> The other solution I can think of in the abstract is to pre-populate the email text to the administrators with the pertinent details.
<gary_poster> That would be a nice feature generally
<gary_poster> But that would either mean a new page
<gary_poster> or it would mean passing arbitrary things in a query string
<gary_poster> and having the mail page accept them to insert them as default
<gary_poster> which inherently is not so bad IMO
<gary_poster> but is sometimes frowned upon
<gary_poster> as I said, maybe there are other options
<benji> actually, that already works: https://launchpad.net/~benji/+contactuser?field.message=foo
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> can you submit the form too?
<gary_poster> not that I want you to, mind you :-)
<gary_poster> more from a "potentially security hole that I should probably not be amused about" perspective
<benji> nope, I get a UnsafeFormGetSubmissionError
<benji> but we can include a subject too: https://launchpad.net/~benji/+contactuser?field.message=foo&field.subject=hi
<benji> so assuming acceptable text for subject and message, that option sounds good
<gary_poster> ok, cool
<gary_poster> I'm +1 on that, myself
<gary_poster> it seems like a reasonable compromise
<benji> I changed "Request administrators change" to "Request team administrators change" to be clear about which administrators we're talking about.
<benji> cool
<gary_poster> Yeah I keep staring at that text
<gary_poster> Request change from team administrators?
<gary_poster> feels kind of hard to parse atm
<benji> hmm, yeah "Request team administrators change" could mean that you want to provoke a regime change :)
<benji> "Request team administrators change subscription"?  Getting long now, but it's the only thing on the line.
<gary_poster> Honestly it is still hard for me to parse quickly
<gary_poster> Request that team adminstrators change the subscription
<gary_poster> Request team adminstrators change the subscription
<gary_poster> Request subscription changethat team adminstrators change the subscription
<gary_poster> Sorry that was supposed to be
<gary_poster> Request subscription change
<gary_poster> Request change to the subscription
<gary_poster> I like that last one myself
<gary_poster> We don't have to mention the administrators here, I think
<gary_poster> especially with the prepopulated email
<benji> yep me too; and if they don't know who they're talking to they'll be able to look on the next page
<gary_poster> (that will presumably mention the administrators
<benji> yep
<gary_poster> right
<gary_poster> cool
<benji> "Request change to the subscription" it is.
<gary_poster> great.  looks good, thank you
<benji> Today's productivity brought to you by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJeLG8-M5I
<benji> gary_poster: what did we want to do differently if the team contact is a mailing list and the user is subscribed to the mailing list?  Point them at the page where they can manage their subscription?
<gary_poster> music is cool
<benji> songs like that make me want to try building sampled tracks again; it feels like one of those "life's work" kind of things that we only have so much time for though
<gary_poster> yeah that's fine.  My initial idea was that we could offer to unsubscribe them directly.  I have no idea how reasonable that is.  If we send them off to a page, we should make it clear what they need to do there (that is, which mailing list they need to unsubscribe from)
<gary_poster> heh
<benji> sounds good
<benji> here's a first draft of the message: http://typewith.me/RfELh2ztbw I'm not real happy with it.
<benji> oops, gary^
<gary_poster> benji, was getting kids from school. will read, then call you
<benji> sounds good
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-07
<gary_poster> oops
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban call in 1 or 2 (ASAP)
<gary_poster> benji, did your fresh setuplxc run give you PG 8.x or 9.x?
<benji> gary_poster: I haven't looked yet, been doing reviews.  Let me take a peek.
<gary_poster> thx
<benji> gary_poster: 8.4
<gary_poster> ok thanks benji
<gary_poster> benji, I guess hat means there's still a chance you might have a fix for the bug relatively quickly, so taht's good news :-)
<gary_poster> two chances to spell "that," and two misses. :-)
<benji> heh
<frankban> benji: thanks for the review. gary_poster: I can land the branch benji reviewed also removing the slice used to avoid buffer overflows if you agree: the fix has been released
<gary_poster> frankban, +1
<frankban> ok cool
<bac> yay AAA
<benji> bac: a big fan of the american anthropological association are you?
<gary_poster> heh
<bac> i'm a big fan of big-ass flatbed tow trucks coming to my house for "free".
<gary_poster> ah.  Land Rover?
<gary_poster> benji, fwiw, I'm starting my daily test run with pg 9.1 installed (hopefully this does the trick http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/973543/) just to see how it affects things
<bac> yes, blown brake slave cylinder.
<benji> k
<gary_poster> bac, have you ever added up how much repairs for that thing have totaled over the years, or have you merely cowered in fear? ;-)
<bac> nope
<gary_poster> :-)
<bac> but it has been pretty good for the last few years after i put in electronic ignition.  some parts, like condensers, were consistently bad.  since no one uses them anymore they sit on shelves for a really long time.  so replacing those parts with modern tech really improved things.
<bac> meanwhile, i've had my MINI for 8 years and have spent >$500 total in repairs
<bac> er, <$500
<gary_poster> wow
<gary_poster> benji, tests fail miserably with PG 9.1 in general, from what I can see (http://ec2-23-22-4-132.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/waterfall) but maybe the test you need will still pass.  The failures have a trivial smell to them, but I'm not sure what the various necessary fixes are,
<gary_poster> .
<gary_poster> ow, something just killed the tests cold...
<benji> gary_poster: interesting.  If I get done with understanding these translations reviews before the heat-death of the universe I'll try to see if just my test passes with 9.1 reliably, then we can at least know how to dispose of the one bug
<gary_poster> cool.  yeah, I was feeling optimistic about the change generally until everything just died right now...
<gary_poster> oh I see
<gary_poster> a lot of those failures were layers not starting up
<gary_poster> so therefore the associated tests didn't run
<gary_poster> benji, mm, pg was running on wrong port.  trying to fix things up.  maybe will be better after that
<benji> mmm
<benji> ok, I just finished the outstanding reviews; trying to get PG 9.1 running on my container now
<gary_poster> that diff to setuplxc is wildly insufficient :-P
<benji> gary_poster: I don't follow.
<gary_poster> benji, above I gave a pastebin to a small change I had made to setuplxc to try and get postgres 9.1 working (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/973543).  It is wildly insufficient.
<benji> ah!  I thought you were talking about the "diff" of the MP that I reviewed earlier.
<gary_poster> nope :-)  I saw those sliding by though.
<frankban> gary_poster: so, we need to change the port number in /etc/postgresql/9.1/main/postgresql.conf? Maybe the port number will be fixed in the package itself once the transition is done?
<gary_poster> frankban, yeah, I hope so.  That would make sense to me.  Also, you need to actually remove 8.4; this will force the system to get all the other 9.1 dependencies.  That also will probably be handled autiomatically
<frankban> gary_poster: is 8.4 still installed using your diff?
<gary_poster> frankban, yeah. :-/
<gary_poster> not sure why
<gary_poster> I think I have things fixed up now.  retrying tests...
<gary_poster> argh
<frankban> gary_poster: you could try replacing "postgresql-9.1" with "launchpad-database-dependencies-9.1"
<gary_poster> frankban, ah ok.  worth a try.  I may need to do that anyway because I keep hosing my ec2 machine for one reason or another...
<gary_poster> I see a lot of this building too.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/973765/
<frankban> gary_poster: if that works, maybe you have a fix for the port number issue too.
<gary_poster> frankban, cool, good point
<gary_poster> things are working much better now, at least...
<benji> gary_poster: how did you get PG 9.1 to start?  the "service" command appears to ignore my taunts
<gary_poster> benji, heh, service postgres st[op|art] worked for me
<benji> hmm
<frankban> gary_poster, benji: am I corrct if I assume a shared library in ubuntu is installed in different paths depending on the system to i386 or amd64? e.g. /usr/lib/lxc/liblxc.so.0 vs /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/lxc/liblxc.so.0
<benji> frankban: I don't know.
<gary_poster> frankban, I don't either, but I am in amd64, and I have the former (/usr/lib/lxc/liblxc.so.0) and not the latter (/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/lxc/liblxc.so.0).
<frankban> thanks. i have the latter after installing the latest quantal version of lxc (that I build with my changes).
<frankban> gary_poster: maybe I should ask Serge about this. It can be an error in my build, or a change in the quantal version. In the latter case, I think I should change lxc-ip to try the first path and fallback to the second.
<gary_poster> frankban, gotcha.  yeah, sounds like a good plan.
<gary_poster> gmb, hey.  https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone when you are ready
<gmb> gary_poster: Sure. Just getting bootstrapped.
<gary_poster> cool
<gmb> gary_poster: I think hangouts are a no go on this connection. Can we skype?
<gary_poster> sure gmb
<gmb> gary_poster: Couldya tell that everyone just hopped on the wifi? :)
<gary_poster> gmb, heh, yes I could
<gary_poster> benji, so is that the end of the road for that bug?  You can tell me in an hour or so--I'm going to lunch :-)
<benji> gary_poster: pretty much, I'm going to try to find a workaround for just a little bit after lunching and relocating
 * benji relocates.
<bac> hi gary_poster
<bac> re: bug 993467
<_mup_> Bug #993467: lib/lp/bugs/browser/tests/distrosourcepackage-bug-views.txt fails when run alone (on lxc?) <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/993467 >
<bac> i have traced it back to schema/patch-2209-16-1.sql not being applied.  (new since 2012-04-23)  where did you see the original failure?
<gary_poster> bac, locally!  ugh, sorry. :-(
<gary_poster> bac, so, mark it in invalid and please accept my apologies.
<bac> gary_poster: easy mistake.  sadly i was in the same boat.
<gary_poster> oh!
<bac> so i replicated the failure
<gary_poster> heh, and :-/
<bac> but i brushed up on storm debugging and some other stuff.
<gary_poster> well, that's cool at least :-)
<gary_poster> not what we want though :-/
<gary_poster> glad it is resolved.
<gary_poster> two green runs in a row
<bac> \0/
<bac> gary_poster: did you get your ec2 bill?  was it crazy?
<gary_poster> bac, not as bad as the month before.  This was maybe $120, and the month before was > $300.  I think that only having a single gigantic machine helps
<bac> mine was $211.31!
<bac> and that didn't include any runaways
<gary_poster> wow
<gary_poster> that sucks
<bac> gary_poster: expense submitted
<gary_poster> ack...logging on...
<gary_poster> bac, why the small two additional separate EC2 items?  what are they?
<bac> march and april
<bac> i indicated that in the email
<bac> they really drive down my average!
<bac> gary_poster: ^
<gary_poster> oh, gotcha bac, cool.  I'll mention that in the line items too just for future reference.
<gary_poster> average: heh
<gary_poster> bac, approved
<benji> gary_poster: I haven't been able to find a workaround for bug 992184 so I think I'm done.  I'm going to assign it to Stuart and take the ID off the card and move it to done-done, I guess.
<_mup_> Bug #992184: lib/lp/services/database/doc/textsearching.txt fails intermittently/rarely on parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by benji> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/992184 >
<gary_poster> benji, how 'bout tracking
<gary_poster> it's not forward, but it's truth :-)
<benji> ooh, I like tracking
<benji> gary_poster: any time you have a minute, I'm not ready to discuss goals again, but I'd like to have a (very short) follow-on to Friday's discussion
<gary_poster> benji, sure thing.  getting ready.  meet you in oneonone
<benji> k
<bac> gary_poster: for the launchpad-lxc-build card did you have anything fancier in mind than http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/974325/
<bac>  (both for setuplxc and lp-setup)?
<gary_poster> bac, no, that's all I had in mind, ty
<bac> gary_poster: would you put your Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval on https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/lxc-build/+merge/104971
<gary_poster> sure
<gary_poster> bac, a thing of beauty and a joy forever.  approved.
<bac> excellent
<gary_poster> We have six clean runs in a row so far, which is 50% more than our previous record.
<bac> gary_poster: you think they've been stalling us on our build machine waiting for these to become available?  https://plus.google.com/116015965439782966698/posts/2a87SCyWVyN
<gary_poster> bac, heh heh, yeah, I think that must be it
<bac> yes, it is the only plausible answer.  they were very convincing, though.
<gary_poster> :-)
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-08
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban (hi gmb!) I'm going to run vote.  I think I will be back in time for 8:10.
<gary_poster> If not it will be soon after
<benji> k
<bac> ok gary_poster
<bac> i hope gmb isn't reading irc atm
<bac> why does "download as text" on paste.ubuntu.com require authentication?
<bac> they say there is no bad press:  https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/PdiEdDE5LeK  (re: stevenk's comment)
<gary_poster> heh, lovely
<gary_poster> bac benji frankban call in one or two (asap_
<gary_poster> )
<benji> oh, frankban and gary_poster: I meant to mention, I saw a branch that used a negative exit status, that's somewhat odd, and almost certainly transmuted into an unsigned value (see http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Exit-Status.html)
<bac> benji: that was probably my branch
<benji> ah, sorry
<benji> I would have responded to the MP but I was reading it on my phone and didn't feel like typing out a response on it.
<gary_poster> benji, ah, I was not aware that it was a problem.  Thanks for the heads up.
<bac> i'll change it to 1 instead of -1
<gary_poster> +, ah, 1
<benji> :)
<bac> gary_poster: short line at the polls?
<gary_poster> bac, very.  I was #81.  The only amendment sign there was "against" but our neighborhood in general leans that way, so...not particularly indicative of anything except that I'm glad my neighborhood leans that way.
<gary_poster> #81 for the day, that is.
<frankban> gary_poster: UnicodeDecodeError during my test run: http://ec2-107-20-111-209.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/waterfall
<frankban> it doesn't seem to be related to lpsetup, but to lpbuildbot.
<gary_poster> frankban, weird :-/ ummm...maybe the stdout stream gives us a clue.  looking
<gary_poster> frankban, "<area shape="poly" ...title="A title with non&#45;ascii characters Ã¡Ã£" .../>" is in stdio...
<frankban> gary_poster: it seems to be a failure of lib/lp/blueprints/stories/blueprints/xx-non-ascii-imagemap.txt
<frankban> yes
<gary_poster> frankban, so I'm not sure what the right solution is, but obviously it is that error_text is...utf8 I assume...and we need to be able to handle it in format_error (and log)
<gary_poster> frankban, could you make a card for that please?
<frankban> gary_poster: sure, In the summary there is also an error that I remember: cmapx" not recognized. Use one of: dia hpgl mif mp pcl pic vtx
<frankban> maybe some workaround is missing in lpsetup
<gary_poster> frankban, see bug 959352
<_mup_> Bug #959352: Ephemeral containers have "/rootfs" prefix in /proc/self/maps entries <apport-collected> <kernel-request-3.2.0-21.34> <kernel-unable-to-test-upstream> <needs-upstream-testing> <precise> <staging> <linux (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <lxc (Ubuntu):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/959352 >
<frankban> gary_poster: cool, workaround found
<gary_poster> :-) cool
<frankban> gary_poster: does launchpad-database-...-9.1 work?
<gary_poster> frankban, yes!  good thinking
<gary_poster> and port is fine automatically
<frankban> gary_poster: cool, I asked because I have a lpsetup branch ready with that fix, and now I am going to add the fix for bug 959352 too.
<_mup_> Bug #959352: Ephemeral containers have "/rootfs" prefix in /proc/self/maps entries <apport-collected> <kernel-request-3.2.0-21.34> <kernel-unable-to-test-upstream> <needs-upstream-testing> <precise> <staging> <linux (Ubuntu):Incomplete> <lxc (Ubuntu):Confirmed> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/959352 >
<gary_poster> cool frankban sounds good
<gary_poster> frankban, what you are working on is kind of a "real" card.  I already had a meta card for that task.  I moved the meta task over into the active lane and I dragged your card to active.  We also technically have 90% of test runs green (better than that even) so we can officially think about these stretch goal cards.  I'll think about them later today, but for now...
<gary_poster> bac, benji, frankban, frankban has started a stretch goal card, and we actually can officially do that.  This means that we are now going to aim for one bug card at a time.  people should either be working on that, or on the stretch goal feature...or on the IS interactio, I guess. :-/
<frankban> gary_poster: ok. I will send a summary email for the meta task later.
<benji> gary_poster: I can't quite parse the above.  What is the "that" in "people should either be working on that"?
<gary_poster> benji, the stretch goal card (the active meta card), via a "meta-task subtask"
<gary_poster> so, the next time you are looking for a card, consider the stretch goal.  frankban, the email would be great.  we also need subtasks put in the "subtask" lane for people to grab
<benji> ah, I didn't realize there was a meta card involved
<gary_poster> if you'd like me to help you identify those with you, I'd be happy to.
<gary_poster> benji, yeah, I decided that those stretch goals seemed pretty much like meta cards.
<gary_poster> frankban, "if you'd like me to help you identify those with you, I'd be happy to" was addressed to you, and "those" are the subtasks for the kanban board :-)
<frankban> gary_poster: I think I have already identified the main sub tasks, and I have branches ready for those. As I mentioned, I was actually running parallel tests in a buildbot environment created by lpsetup.
<benji> I've just barely started on my card (bug 994694); shall I put it back and work on the meta/streach card instead (which would put us back under the WIP limit which we somehow exceeded)
<_mup_> Bug #994694: GeneratorExit exception throughout paralleltest subunit output <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/994694 >
<gary_poster> benji, not sure yet.  keep trucking, and I'll chat with frankban about what needs to be done.
<gary_poster> frankban, right.  so you've pretty much done everything already? :-)
<gary_poster> benji, "keep trucking" == "keep working on that bug" ;-)
 * gary_poster has been on the lookout for his use of vague idioms lately
<frankban> gary_poster: probably. To be sure I need to 1. fix lpsetup with postgres 0.1 and the rootfs workaround and 2. complete a test run
<bac> gary_poster invents "Mud flap management"
<frankban> postgres 9.1! 0.1 is quite deprecated
<gary_poster> frankban, :-) ack.  So at most, at your EoD if you are not done and there are tasks that others could do, send out an email or talk to me about it and we'll see if anyone can take over for you.
<gary_poster> frankban, otherwise, I'll get out of your way.  Thanks!
<gary_poster> benji, <snort>
<gary_poster> In other news, 12 green runs in a row!
<benji> We're "done" with fixing test bugs when we reach 95% passing runs, right?  Over how many runs is that?
<bac> benji: 19, no?
<bac> benji: i mean, i thought it was 95% green runs...so 1 failure in 20 full runs
<gary_poster> yes, benji, what bac says is how I interpret it
<gary_poster> "done" means that we could deploy with that
<gary_poster> we should keep running at that point and fix what we find
<gary_poster> but it means that stage is "good enough"
<bac> and i assume we can ignore any non-green runs that also fail on the real buildbot causing testfix mode.  we shouldn't be penalized for those.
<gary_poster> right, bac
<gary_poster> though there are so few commits in the LP tree that it hasn't been an issue.  OTOH maybe the UDS session will change that. :-)
<gary_poster> bac were you able to dupe your bug?
<gary_poster> (curiosity(
<gary_poster> )
<bac> gary_poster: no.
<gary_poster> that jibes with my experience then.
<bac> gary_poster: so should we just keep an eye on this bug and see if it happens again?
<gary_poster> bac...you got me.  I thought you were very brave grabbing it, because I wasn't sure what to do with it.  Mm, lemme look at it again.
<gary_poster> bac, you could ask abentley if he has any bright ideas as to what to investigate, or if he's going to be replacing this code with celery tomorrow so nevermind, or something.
<gary_poster> bac, no other bright ideas other than running the test 10 times in a loop and seeing if you can dupe it then.  I ran it three or four times in a loop and was unable to, after I didn't get any isolation results.
<gary_poster> if neither of those lead anywhere bac, then, yeah, maybe dropping it for later would make sense.
<bac> ok, i'll hammer it and see
<frankban> could anybody please review https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/postgres-9.1/+merge/105070 ? That's the branch I'd like to package and use for the next test run
<gary_poster> bac, we have our first failure in 13 runs, and it's an old friend: http://ec2-23-22-54-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/1/steps/shell_8/logs/summary .  We haven't seen these in quite some time, which suggests that our previous efforts improved things.  I wonder if the timeout needs to just be crazy or something.
<bac> frankban: what is the ETA for the death of setuplxc?
<bac> frankban: your MP is approved
<bac> (i'd already done it)
<bac> er
<frankban> bac: oh, thanks, and yes, I will change the exit code.
 * gary_poster started data center test run @ 13:05 Z (note for later)
<frankban> bac: ETA for the death of setuplxc -> we have a meta card to replace it, so I think we could stop supporting it (at least for non-blocking bugs). but maybe gary_poster can better answer your question
<gary_poster> frankban, well, when will you merge a branch to our charm that switches to lpsetup?
<gary_poster> Assuming that you do that after everything works, that
<gary_poster> is the moment I'm +1 on deleting setuplxc and forgetting about it
<gary_poster> but yeah, actually:
<gary_poster> we should only make changes to it for blocking bugs, I agree with that, bac, frankban
<gary_poster> even before the switch
<gary_poster> (which I expect to happen this week and maybe even tomorrow if we are lucky, from what frankban says)
<bac> gary_poster: ok, then i won't bother with the exit_code -1 problem
<gary_poster> ok bac, cool
<bac> gary_poster: it is fixed in lpsetup
<gary_poster> cool bac, I saw that in the MP, thanks
<gary_poster> bac, do you think I should reopen bug 974617 or file a new bug.  It is the same old problem, IMO.  I think I see one more way to have a race condition, and a correlating approach to address it.
<_mup_> Bug #974617: test_operationalerror_view_integration fails intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <qa-untestable> <Launchpad itself:Fix Released by bac> <Python PGBouncer:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/974617 >
<bac> gary_poster: same bug
<gary_poster> cool, agree, wasn't sure, thanks
<bac> gary_poster: i'm running a set of 20 tests for bug 994777 and so far i have seen one failure
<_mup_> Bug #994777: lp.services.job.tests.test_runner.TestTwistedJobRunner.test_timeout_short fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/994777 >
<gary_poster> bac, wow
<bac> i have a set of 84 tests in my layer
<gary_poster> bac, I'm not sure I understand.  (1) 20 tests or 84 tests?  (2) neither of us were able to dupe before; what are you doing differently?
<bac> 20 full runs of 84 individual tests in my --load-list
<bac> gary_poster: i've done nothing differently but run the test repeatedly as you suggested earlier.
<gary_poster> oh I see
<gary_poster> bac, did you also try running the test by itself 20 times, out of curiosity?
<bac> gary_poster: no but that's a good idea
<gary_poster> bac, benji, I'm trying to copy the testing cabal's new version of the packages we need, and I'm getting this error: "testrepository 0.0.5+bzr153~ppa11~precise1 in precise (version older than the testrepository 0.0.5++z~ppa6~precise1 in precise published in precise)".  I'm strongly inclined to delete the ++z packages because the naming is just wrong for the present and the future AFAICT.  Do either of you disagree
<gary_poster>  or have other advice?
<benji> gary_poster: it may be difficult to kill the ++z versions because of all the caching and other storage of version info that goes on, but I don't know enough about it to be sure it won't work in our narrow case
<bac> gary_poster: i agree it is a mess that needs to be sorted out.  i don't have a plan.
<gary_poster> benji, it will be an annoyance for our own machines, if we installed them, but I think we can cope with it.  It shouldn't be a problem for the juju machines since they are torn down and rebuilt.
<gary_poster> I plan to cope with the fallout locally first
<gary_poster> so I can hopefully save others the pain
<gary_poster> ok, I'll give it a whirl, I think
<gary_poster> thanks
<benji> gary_poster: sounds like a plan
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> gary_poster: the PPA machinery may interfere.  i *think* it remembers the versioning of previously published packages and enforces that the versioning move forward.
<bac> but it is worth trying
<gary_poster> bac, even if it is deleted?  yeah, ok, giving it a whirl
<gary_poster> the PPA machinery let me delete and copy as I wished
<gary_poster> it is building now
<gary_poster> after that I will try locally
<bac> gary_poster: it doesn't throw up until publish time.  stupid.
<gary_poster> bac :-(
<bac> gary_poster: i am running 20 tests with just the failing twisted test.  so far i have seen one failure
<gary_poster> bac, "it doesn't throw up until publish time": I thought you meant https://launchpad.net/~yellow/+archive/ppa/+packages but that looks ok.  you must mean your bug, but I'm not sure what publish time is for that job thing
<bac> sorry gary_poster.  i'm not communicating very well today.
<bac> the PPA may build fine but then version issues are only caught after the build during the publish phase.
<gary_poster> s'ok, I'm throwing myself at some buildbot issue and feeling a bit numb myself
<gary_poster> ah ok
 * bac -> sandwhich
<gary_poster> but we're still fine in this particular case, right bac, given what you see on that link?
<gary_poster> s'ok, go have a sandwich  (which wich?)
<bac> oh, yes, that does look nice
<gary_poster> great
<bac> i'm not sure what i'll order at Sandwhich
<bac> probably a sandwich
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> benji, if you want to be distracted a bit, take a glance at http://ec2-23-22-54-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/waterfall , top run
<gary_poster> the subunit stream has all tests
<gary_poster> even a failure
<gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/975994/
<gary_poster> but worker and stats are not complete
 * benji looks
<gary_poster> must run to lunch/babysitting
<gary_poster> frankban, approved https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/charms/oneiric/buildbot-slave/use-lpsetup/+merge/105086 with small comments
<gary_poster> also approved https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpbuildbot/use-lpsetup/+merge/105085
<frankban> thanks gary_poster: I will change the charm to be backward compatible. For your other question: in lpsetup --testing is an alias for  --use-urandom --create-scripts --install-subunit
<gary_poster> frankban, heh, cool!
<frankban> another clean run \o/
<gary_poster> yay! :-)
<gary_poster> frankban, might as well add your runs to https://dev.launchpad.net/ParallelTests/ResultsLog if you are willing and have the time.  no problem if not.
<frankban> gary_poster: the first one already added, I will add the second and third runs (started now) later. need to go, have a nice evening!
<gary_poster> cool frankban thanks.  you too!
<benji> gary_poster: since you reviewed it, I assume you know what's going on with frankban's lpsetup branch; can I move that card from review to landing?  Also, I'm looking for something to do, so I figured I should take the next step from his email and remove setuplxc from LP.
<gary_poster> benji, hey.  move card: +1.  remove setuplxc: not till everything has landed please.  what next: give me a sec please, trying to keep something in my head
<gary_poster> ok, thing in my head was used :-)
<gary_poster> um, next...
 * benji envisions parisitic brain worms trying to escape.
<gary_poster> :-)
<gary_poster> benji, 974617 will be easy if you agree with my assessment.  The UnicodeDecodeError in Francesco's card should be a bug against lpbuildbot just so we can track it, and then that is probably easy.
<gary_poster> I'm in the middle of filing two other bugs
<gary_poster> and they might not be as easy
 * benji looks at 974617.
<gary_poster> so maybe by the time I've filed the pertinent bits you'll be done with those and can look at one of these
<benji> gary_poster: I like your suggestion for 974617.  I'll start on it now.
<gary_poster> cool benji
<frankban> gary_poster: I think this is new: http://ec2-23-20-70-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com:8010/builders/lucid_lp/builds/2/steps/shell_8/logs/summary
 * gary_poster looks
<gary_poster> it is frankban.  I can file the bug if you give me a few minutes before you shut the instance down
<gary_poster> or you can file it--if you do, please include a pastebin of the worker-1 output
<gary_poster> I'm filing now
<frankban> thanks gary_poster, i'll pick the number and update the result log
<gary_poster> thank you
<gary_poster> frankban, bug 996720
<_mup_> Bug #996720: lib/lp/soyuz/javascript/tests/test_lp_dynamic_dom_updater.html fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/996720 >
<frankban> done
<gary_poster> benji, you are out until next Tuesday, right?
<benji> gary_poster: right
<gary_poster> starting tomorrow I mean
<gary_poster> ok cool, enjoy and safe travels
<gary_poster> benji, source of weird buildbot/subunit output, if you are interested: 996729
<gary_poster> bug 996729
<_mup_> Bug #996729: zope.testing --subunit allows bad output on stdout, which can break subunit processing <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/996729 >
<benji> I am interested; looking.
<benji> gary_poster: that's a good one
<gary_poster> yeah, I'm afraid it will be even more interesting to fix, because I expect test fallout
<gary_poster> given the desired solution
<benji> mmm
<benji> I do think your solution is a good one though.
<gary_poster> cool
<bac> gary_poster: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/994777 I find it is reproducible at about the same rate (5%) whether it is run in the original grouping or when that test is run individually.
<_mup_> Bug #994777: lp.services.job.tests.test_runner.TestTwistedJobRunner.test_timeout_short fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/994777 >
<bac> i think it has nothing to do with paralleltest and should be classified as a generic spurious test.
<gary_poster> bac, sorry was on call with francis
<gary_poster> bac, can we/should we just disable it then?  Do you want to timebox it or toss it to aaron for ideas?
 * gary_poster back in a sec
 * gary_poster back
<benji> gary_poster: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-974617/+merge/105130
<gary_poster> diff updating benji :-)
<gary_poster> there it is...
<gary_poster> ooh, nice benji.
<gary_poster> approved benji
<gary_poster> I'll land tomorrow if you need me to
<benji> gary_poster: yeah, it would probably be best if you land it, that way you get the emails, etc.
<gary_poster> cool benji.  have fun! :-)
<benji> gary_poster: thanks, see you later
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-09
<gary_poster> hey bac.  what do you want to do about bug 994777?  I took off the paralleltest tag, but we should still do something about it IMO.
<gary_poster> Disable
<gary_poster> ?
<gary_poster> frankban, bac, call in 2
<bac> k
<gary_poster> frankban, I approved the change.  Looks good.
<frankban> gary_poster: cool thanks
<bac> gary_poster: can i r=gary for the spurious test failure landing
<gary_poster> bac, that's just disabling?  if so, sure?
<bac> yep
<gary_poster> uh, I mean, confidently, "sure" :-)
 * bac landing via pqm-submit now seems hard and archaic
<gary_poster> heh, yeah
<bac> gary_poster: 2pm today good for you for review call?  (just added it to calendar)
<gary_poster> bac, yes, cool
<bac> gary_poster: so shall i take one of the new bugs (like bug 996773) or is there work on the metatask?
<gary_poster> bac, not metatask.
<gary_poster> I marked the only subtask as blocked; frankban please correct if wrong
<bac> ok, i'll look at that bug then
<gary_poster> cool, thanks bac
<frankban> gary_poster: you're right
<gary_poster> that one is happening more frequently than any others right now for me, bac.  I've wondered if a relatively new change is involved.
<gary_poster> frankban, ok, cool, thanks for confirmation/
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> bac or frankban, I'm having a seg fault when I try to dupe bug 996720.  It says a core is dumped, but it is not in working directory, and indeed I don't see anything pertinent named "core" in my home directory.  I have "ulimit -c unlimited" both in the lxc container and (when that didn't seem to do anything) in the host.  Any ideas on how to get the core dump?  I'd like to at least see what is falling over.
<frankban> gary_poster: just an idea... do you get sigsegv also using ssh -X?
<bac> gary_poster: no idea, since you've set ulimit.  can you reproduce on the host?
<gary_poster> frankban, no idea but will investigate.  bac, my host is not set up as a dev environment
<gary_poster> I could try to set up a vm
<benji> gary_poster: look at /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern; apport may be eating the core file
<gary_poster> (that failed last time I tried :-P but it would be nice to have
<gary_poster> benji, hi thanks.  it is "|/usr/share/apport/apport %p %s %c" which does look a bit like it might be eating
<benji> mmmm... nummy core files
<gary_poster> benji, interesting, in host and container, root does not have permission to move or edit that file.  weird.
<benji> I guess they really want apport to know about crashes.
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> for reference, apparently the only acceptable way to change the file is on the order of `echo "core" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern`
<gary_poster> and there it is!
<gary_poster> ugh
<gary_poster> all that and it was just because I forgot to use xvfb, I think.  :-(  Lunch, then will return.
<gary_poster> bac, Julia (our baby) is awake from her nap earlier than expected and Karyn is getting her mom from the airport.  she should be back soon.  I'm leaving the baby in her crib for as long as she is willing to stay there.  She's ok for now.  If you are ok with playing it by ear, I'm fine with being optimistic and starting at 2; otherwise we can wait till Karyn returns.  Which would you prefer?
<bac> we can start and then delay if the screaming gets too bad
<gary_poster> cool thanks
<bac> gary_poster: normal hangout?
<gary_poster> bac, https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone
<gary_poster> not sure that is normal or not :-)
<bac> 9199684963
<bac> uh-oh, power flickeriness
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-10
<gary_poster> bac frankban call in 2
<bac> ok
<bac> let's hope roadrunner is nicer to me today
<gary_poster> I had trouble with cable in the afternoon and evening when I had it
<gary_poster> morning was usually better
<frankban> gary_poster: https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/load-library/+merge/105212
<bac> gah
<bac> i have nothing else
<gary_poster> bac, lol that was abrupt
<bac> gary_poster: ^
<gary_poster> ok cool
<gary_poster> actually the effect was "I've got nothing" follwed by immediately hanging up :-)
<frankban> ssh to lxc for avant-garde people: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/979800/ ;-)
<gary_poster> frankban, sorry!  I am trying to dig into the issues with the data center lxc setup and lost track of time.  Want to have a call?
<gary_poster> bac, hey.  You have a chance to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~frankban/lpsetup/load-library/+merge/105212 ?  I'm happy to
<bac> gary_poster: i will now
<gary_poster> thanks bac
<bac> hi frankban, your MP looks good.  i have a question about lines 77 and 78.  they don't seem to be exercised and are unused.  It seems it could be simplified, renamed, and used instead of the lambda at line 84 and at line 98.
<frankban> bac: looking
<frankban> bac:  they simulate the OSError raised by _load_library (line 30) when the library is not found in the usual location
<frankban> bac: this way the except block can be tested by test_host_multiarch_path
<frankban> (the except block starting from line 32(
<bac> so it is actually being triggered by line 97?
<bac> ok, i understand now
<frankban> bac: yes, the loader multiarch_loader is called two times, and the first time raises an OSError
<frankban> thanks bac
<frankban> gary_poster: maybe, in the lxc patch,  I should drop the AGPL header in lp-lxc
<frankban> sorry, lxc-ip
<gary_poster> frankban, we should do that but I think I need official blessing for that.  Lemme check with flacoste in a sec.  on call now
<frankban> gary_poster: lxc uses GNU LGPL, which is quite different.
<gary_poster> ack frankban. asked on launchpad-ops.  I think he is on call too
<frankban> thanks gary_poster
<gary_poster> bac, hey.  Karyn is away & my MIL is here & our baby has a 104.2 fever.  I need to go out and get tylenol for her, and then go to thr dr soon after.  could we have a rain check for tomorrow?
<bac> sure.  sorry to hear about the fever.  that's mighty high.
<bac> hope she's better soon
<gary_poster> thanks bac
#launchpad-yellow 2012-05-11
<gary_poster> argh, again
<gary_poster> bac frankban sorry, lost track of time.  I'm going to try and get video working.  we'll talk in 5 minutes (12:15 UTC)   one way or the other
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> gmb if you see this, please kick SpamapS about the charm packaging symlinks and python toolbox packaging
<frankban> bac: sorry I've closed firefox, you were tellenig me something, I am back in goldenhorde
<bac> frankban: ok, let's pair in about 10 minutes.  i'll share a screen using benji's old method
<frankban> ok
<gary_poster> frankban:
<gary_poster> <flacoste> gary_poster: nah, we always contribute patches upstream on their license terms
<gary_poster> <flacoste> gary_poster: so this is fin
<gary_poster> e
<gary_poster> I will unblock your card :-)
<frankban> cool gary_poster, so LGPL
<gary_poster> right, frankban
<bac> gary_poster: yay!
<gary_poster> bac, ?
<bac> gary_poster: frankban and i figured out what was going on.  wadl generation caches on a class level dictionary so that is what was breaking test isolation
<gary_poster> ah!  cool.  So you have to...stash the cache and put it back?
<bac> so test that generate wadl need to clear the cache at the end
<gary_poster> ah ok
<bac> you think, or just clear?
<gary_poster> generating the cache is expensive, I think
<gary_poster> could be wrong
<gary_poster> maybe time the two approaches
<bac> no, it is very expensive
<gary_poster> clearing would be nicer
<bac> but do we want to keep it between tests?
<gary_poster> but if you can just put it back and save a couple of minutes in the test...how long does it take?
<gary_poster> we already do keep it between tests
<gary_poster> if we didn't we'd be paying the cost for any of our tests like this
<gary_poster> s/any/all/
<bac> well the problem is recognizing the tests that will be harmed by using a cached wadl that doesn't represent their view of the world
<gary_poster> sure.
<gary_poster> but...in either case
<gary_poster> a well behaved test will need to either explicitly clear the cache
<gary_poster> or reset the previous contents
<gary_poster> if we put in automation to try to warn test writers (and I'm not quite sure how we would do that unless we stuff it in a shared base testcase), then why can't we put automation to always stash the contents on setup and reinstate on teardown?
<bac> but if every test sets aside the cache in a setup and restores it in a teardown then none of those tests are using the cache and gaining no benefit from it
<bac> i'm actually pretty curious now as to why using the cached wadl breaks this test.  the wadl generation looks pretty innocuous
<gary_poster> bac, no, that's not my idea
<gary_poster> idea: in setUp, you make a copy of the cache
<gary_poster> in tearDown, you reinstate that copy
<bac> right
<gary_poster> every test gets a new, clean copy of the cache
<gary_poster> already populated
<bac> but who generates the cache?
<gary_poster> yeah, was thinking about that :-)
<bac> if testA generates the cache, but in teardown replaces it with what he found at the beginning, then it is reset to {}
<bac> i'm currently looking at the difference in the wadl between the cached and newly generated to see if i can tell why it is causing the failure
<gary_poster> setUp could look on a local base class testcase attribute for the cache.  If it does not exist, it clears out the wadl cache and forces it to be generated (I think there's an explicit call for that IIRC)
<gary_poster> it then gets the generated code.
<gary_poster> cache I mean
<gary_poster> OTOH if the local version exists, it puts a copy in the cache.
<gary_poster> eh, I dunno.
<gary_poster> difference: doesn't it explicitly specify a different file to load in that test?
<gary_poster> been a while since I looked at it
<frankban> bac, gary_poster: I know nothing about how wadl is generated, but, could it be the wadl version? we have devel, beta and 1.0
<bac> frankban: all three versions are cached and used based on version
<frankban> bac: hum...
<gary_poster> yeah
<bac> gary_poster, frankban: so the difference between the old and new wadl is simply https vs http
<gary_poster> huh
<bac> so the cached version has https URL, which cause the api tests to fail with 'connection refused' b/c they are listening for http connections
<gary_poster> and in general--outside of tests--they are supposed to have https urls if I read the code correctly
<frankban> test_wadl_generation seems to be the only test that uses generate_wadl, the latter calls _generate_web_service_root that do:
<frankban> does:
<frankban> # Since we want HTTPS URLs we have to munge the request URL.
<frankban> url = url.replace('http://', 'https://')
<frankban> gary_poster, bac: we could just add a secure=True argument to generate_wadl and _generate_web_service_root and then call generate_wadl(version, secure=False) in test_wadl...
<gary_poster> I s'pose, but in general we seem to have code that is generating a test-friendly wadl cache somewhere
<gary_poster> that code might change
<gary_poster> if it does, we'd want that change too
<gary_poster> we could try to figure out that mechanism
<gary_poster> and comment it or hook into it or something
<gary_poster> so as to make that approach more reliable
<gary_poster> for the future
<gary_poster> or so as to figure out another similar solution
<gary_poster> utilities/create-lp-wadl-and-apidoc.py ...
<gary_poster> which has no https->http code I see...
<gary_poster> and looking at the wadl files in my filesystem, they are https too...
<gary_poster> so who is fixing up https -> http?
<gary_poster> for the tests?
<bac> i think _generate_web_service_root  as frankban pointed out above
<gary_poster> bac, no, the other way around
<gary_poster> bac, you said that our testing cache has http, right
<gary_poster> and after we make this call, the urls are https
<bac> yes, i was backwards
<gary_poster> which time? :-)
<gary_poster> so, it starts out https
<gary_poster> and after that test it is http?
<bac> test_wadl via generate_wadl generated https
<frankban> gary_poster: I think after test_wadl it remains https, and it is cached
<bac> i don't know who makes the http version used by the api tests
<gary_poster> right
<gary_poster> that was my question
<frankban> gary_poster, bac: there is the possibility that the cached http version is created by the first test that exercises the api
<gary_poster> I believe that is the case--oh!
<bac> yes
<gary_poster> right, I forgot about that.  So, that means that initially there is no reading of the wadl files
<gary_poster> then we produce the wadl files, using generate_wadl, which is done in such a way as to enforce https
<frankban> my suggestion was like: if we can establish that test_wadl is the only test that uses https, we can switch that test to use http instead, so that the cached wadl is valid for all tests
<gary_poster> right, I followed that.  My concern was that other code may want other changes for tests.  But, generate_wadl appears to be the only official entry point for this.
<bac> not wadl files, but in-memory cached wadl
<gary_poster> yes, good correction, thanks
<bac> launchpadlib_for defines the service_root to be 'http://api.launchpad.dev/'
<bac> so any test using that part of testing/webservice will get http URLs into the cache
<bac> unless it is already populated
<gary_poster> ok, I feel like you two have been standing there with the full undestanding all along. :-)  Mm, so bac's suggestion was clearing out the cache after the test, and frankban's suggestion is to make the test produce http.  Um, I'm fine with you all deciding.  I lean more towards the "get rid of the stuff we generated in this test" approach rather than the "generate stuff in this test that we an use later," but I'm h
<gary_poster> appy to let you all decide.
<bac> so if our normal mechanism properly generates http and only test_wadl is generating https, then i think we should either fix it to generate http or clear the cache when it is done
<bac> frankban's solution is good in that it preserves the cache
<bac> frankban's solution is bad in that caching is bad for test isolation
<frankban> I agree
<frankban> another similar solution (with the same pros and cons) is to change _generate_web_service_root to switch http/https only if the version is not "devel", assuming that other tests use 'devel'
<bac> i'm happy in that we now *fully* understand this hateful problem, so any solution is good.
<bac> here is what i propose:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/981864/
<bac> if test_wadl is the first wadl generator then there will be repeated effort but in all other situations there is no waste
<frankban> bac: I like that only the test code is changed (using your solution), +1
<bac> yeah, that appealed to me too
<bac> gary_poster: there are no other reviewers (but me), so if you have time, https://code.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-996773-2/+merge/105499
 * bac ->lunch
<gary_poster> sure bac
<gary_poster> frankban, call now or next week?
<frankban> gary_poster: now is ok if you are have time
<gary_poster> cool frankban.  let's go to https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/extras/canonical.com/goldenhordeoneonone
<gary_poster> sorry bac
<gary_poster> was on call and then had lunch
<gary_poster> but sinzui approved, as I'm sure you saw
<gary_poster> bac, hey
<gary_poster> you around for a quick call?
<bac> oh yeah
<bac> good thing you fixed your calendar.  :)
<bac> gary_poster: in oneonone
<gary_poster> bac, I got a test error on the data center machine which looks like the old bzr whoami problem.  Do we have to do something in the system to prevent these?
<gary_poster>  v
<gary_poster> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/982322/
<gary_poster> Ah, yeah I think I remember
<bac> no, we rolled back the /etc/mailname approach
<bac> and added a 'bzr whoami' to the failing test
<bac> so the test should not fail
<gary_poster> oh
<gary_poster> maybe is this a different failing test, bac?
<gary_poster> and we just need to add the same fix?
<bac> gary_poster: this just posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAlhLz3lNNs&feature=uploademail  "Juju Charm Best Practices"
<bac> i wonder if any of ours made the cut
<gary_poster> well, python shelltoolbox must not have :-(
<bac> gary_poster: that test does not match what i see in trunk
<bac> e.g. line 187, where the failure occurs is not the same
<bac> do you have a recent branch?
<bac> in trunk, the whoami fix is at line 179
<gary_poster> oh this is r15131
<bac> < 15236
<gary_poster> ah!
<gary_poster> ok
<gary_poster> thanks bac.  I thought something was already updating the branch
<bac> i have the UDS session playing in the background on my tv
<bac> i keep hearing "best practices" and "promulgate" being used way too much
<gary_poster> heh
<gary_poster> bac, I have it in the background too.  AFAICT they are not sharing best practices but just randomly saying blue sky stuff. oops
<bac> yeah, well
<bac> you know, if we're supposed to plugging in more company-wide, we really need to be at UDS
<bac> gary_poster: so far i cannot reproduce bug 998040
<_mup_> Bug #998040: lp.codehosting.tests.test_bzrutils.TestGetBranchStackedOnURL.testGetBranchStackedOnUrlNotStacked(RemoteBranchFormat-v2) fails rarely/intermittently in parallel tests <paralleltest> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by bac> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/998040 >
<gary_poster> bac, agree about UDS
<bac> running original worker set repeatedly now
<gary_poster> no idea about repro :-/
<bac> ok
<gary_poster> I just turned off the UDS session.  kind of annoying. :-P
