#ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 2013-03-05
<Wilberto> At what time is the event?
<bzoltan_> in an hour and ten minutes
<bzoltan_> Wilberto ^
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu SDK Roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21630/appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk
<dpm> Coming up: Ubuntu SDK Roadmap
<dpm> can everyone see us on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21630/appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap/ ?
<ara> I can
<alecu`> yup
<netcurli> yes
<rdxrb> yup
<bjaanes> yes
<fugue88> Yes.
<bzoltan> hello all
<bjaanes> heh, yes
<olafura> yes
<victorp_> hello
<Mirv> now yes
<theDoctor> hello
<jdstrand> weird, no
<jdstrand> but don't wait on me
<ahayzen> o/
<jdstrand> :)
<Mirv> after refreshing
<theDoctor> is there no video here?
<eclecticgeekery> Sight and sound. All good.
<Mirv> theDoctor: I have, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21630/appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap/
<highvoltage> theDoctor: try refreshing
<alecu`> mute zoltan!
<Mirv> bzoltan: muuute when keyboarding :)
<robru> click clack!
<victorp_> yeap!
<bjaanes> That keyboard is *really* loud
<victorp_> we can hear you
<rdxrb> Yes!
<mzanetti> yes
<zebaszp> we hear you perfectly! :D
<ahayzen> we can hear u :)
<zebaszp> also, yes, the keyboard is loud as hell
<bjaanes> no
<victorp_> nope
<corden_> yes
<mzanetti> no
<Mirv> my sound is breaking up but maybe a small refresh again..
<victorp_> bzoltan you have a mute on the hang out
<victorp_> at the top
<mzanetti> Mirv: I had that with the keynote. Seems much more stable watching directly on youtube for some reason
<tiagoscd|uds> hey guys :)
<Mirv> mzanetti: ok, keynote was fine, now even that route doesn't seem to help but fighting..
<Mirv> mzanetti: oh, a BT problem it seems :)
<dpm> if anyone wants to join the hangout and participate or ask questions directly there, please let me know and I can easily let you in
<codealot> ok
<Mirv> reconnecting to headset fixed
<Riddell> bzoltan: yes
<nerochiaro> is it possible to disable video ?
<nerochiaro> in the hangout ?
<Riddell> nerochiaro: doubt it
<nerochiaro> Riddell: can't really follow, the audio is too choppy
<codealot> I think its possible
<codealot> did it once
<nerochiaro> does it work for you guys ?
<mzanetti> nerochiaro: yes, fine here
<codealot> Its fine here
<theDoctor_> It's working for me. Video breaks up occasionally
<eclecticgeekery> All fine here, too.
<Mirv> all great now after kicking my BT headset/connection
<nerochiaro> ok, my connection is horrible again then. fantastic. i'll run to another location and catch the rest of the meeting from there, hopefully better quality
<olafura> My problem is that QML feels really strange. I'm looking at the source to see if it's possible to rebase the qt declarative to work with Enyo syntax, it would allow for faster prototyping and better use of components. It would also allow for a full convergance between web apps that could be used on Android and iPad/iPhone and then be supercharged on Ubuntu Phone
<kyleN_> so this is qml/qt theming, distinct from the current gtk theme mostly used in Ubuntu
<kenvandine> kyleN_, yes
<Riddell> olafura: that seems unlikely
<kyleN_> will there be a clear list of the assets one needs to rovide to create a new theme?
<victorp_> bzoltan there is a lot of examples for QT
<victorp_> how about porting some to ubuntu components
<victorp_> like samegame
<victorp_> or maroon
<codealot> Would it be possible to have the Ubuntu SDK almost match the Blackberry Cascades SDK
<codealot> where you can opt for either/both the C++ and QML
<victorp_> maroon is qml AFAIK
<victorp_> but they are kind of burried
<mzanetti> what is the issue with Qt apps with QML ui?
<t1mp> mzanetti: it is not an issue, its good.
<codealot> mzanetti: I'm working on the Terminal app for Ubuntu Touch and I'd wish to integrate Busybox
<codealot> now to get that in via QML is a challenge
<bjaanes> Is there any real difference between QML with C++ backend and QML with C++ plugins? I know these are two possible options to use c++ in the qml application - but the plugins seem more messy in practice. Any input on that?
<victorp_> bzoltan - please please make sure that Qtcreator works well with LTS versions (12.04)
<bjaanes> Most importantly for me: why is "pure" QML (no c++) beeing pushed so hard? What is the reasoning behind this?
<victorp_> dpm - I think LTS is what most android developers use in companies writting mobile apps
<mzanetti> bjaanes: +1. Same question here
<victorp_> bzoltan ^^
<victorp_> dpm - I meant the question from mzanetti and bjaanes
<victorp_> bzoltan - vanhoof did some experiments on that and wrote some docs for cross compilation
<mzanetti> QML has serious portability issues. All the Qt apps I wrote so far just compile on ubuntu phone. Every line of QML had to be rewritten.
<victorp_> mzanetti - really?  I run a few of the QML examples on my desktop and just works
<kenvandine> i couldn't get very far with pure QML, about 20 minutes in I hit the point where I needed to add some Qt
<mzanetti> victorp_: ok. if you only use Rectangles you're fine. But use a Button
<kenvandine> the real issue is app developers building for the target devices
<victorp_> mzanetti, well yes, if you are using ubuntu components
<victorp_> that is a good point, bzoltan it would be great to see UBuntu components support for other platforms
<mzanetti> zsombi_: yeah... all for it. I just don't see why an applications entry point _needs_ to be QML
<greyback> bjaanes: does that answer your question?
<bjaanes> greyback, pretty much
<greyback> bjaanes: have you any thoughts? Anything we missed, or disagree with?
<mzanetti> I fully agree with all the points you said so far
<victorp_> bzoltan - I think it depends
<victorp_> I agree with you on declarative
<victorp_> but stay away from .js
<victorp_> ;)
<sil-unwell> I think my question would be sort of the other way around: why would you want to use C++? If you start writing a pure QML app and then find that there's something you want to do that *can't* be done in there (say, you need to call a particular D-Bus API) then sure, write a C++ plugin (and give it to others, and ask for it to be put in the SDK!) No-one's discouraging doing that.
<sil-unwell> But pure QML is way easier for less experienced Qt hackers to write, to test, to run, and to package. Speaking as a less experienced Qt hacker, I'm all for that.
<greyback> victorp_: by "support for other platforms" you mean that things like Button should be themed to suit the platform? Or that out components just work on other platforms
<t1mp> sil-unwell: +1
<Riddell> how do you run QML programmes without a c++ wrapper? no official way in Qt 4 but there was a developer binary to do it, what's the case in Qt 5?
<mzanetti> Riddell: same with Qt5
<victorp_> bzoltan - how about access to simulated hardware?
<sil-unwell> Riddell: qmlscene (the Qt5 equivalent of qmlviewer)
<mzanetti> Riddell: there is qmlscene which is not meant to be a production tool according to its docs
<kenvandine> we need to solve that
<victorp_> bzoltan - gps, sensors..
<greyback> Riddell: we're using qmlscene for now, but I;m hearing of a production tool being added to qt5.1 maybe
<greyback> Riddell: otherwise we'll write our own simple QQuickView wrapper
<greyback> and share it
<Riddell> cp qmlscene ubuntu-ui-toolkit-runner? :)
<mzanetti> :)
<victorp_> bzoltan - JDI!! ;)
<greyback> Riddell: pretty much :)
<sil-unwell> t1mp: I completely understand that for people who know what they're doing and have extensive C++ and Qt experience, they want to continue using that, and that's fine for them; I just don't want those people to make new Ubuntu developers believe that those new developers have to learn C++ in order to get anything done.
<greyback> bzoltan: we've lost you
<t1mp> sil-unwell: I agree fully with that.
<codealot> How about we start with an android virtual machine installed with Ubuntu Touch?
<mzanetti> I do so too
<t1mp> note that the SDK APIs are not fully stable yet, so we may change/tweak them in the future
<sil-unwell> It would be really good if the developer.ubuntu.com documentation included some indication of when each thing got implemented (a date) or when it's hoped to be implemented (a date). So I can see what a Component can do right now and what it is planned to do even if it doesn't work yet.
<sil-unwell> that's a lot better than seeing a component's documentation with "TODO" and nothing else written there :)
<ara> sil-unwell, ++
<t1mp> sil-unwell: good point
<sil-unwell> so I might be delirious, so you're allowed to ignore me ;)
 * dpm hugs sil-unwell :)
<sil-unwell> is the documentation not autogenerated from the QML files which actually implement the components? It's all written by hand????
<t1mp> sil-unwell: it is auto-generated from the QML files
<dpm> sil-unwell, automatically generated, but currently copied manually to d.u.c
<sil-unwell> t1mp: ah, right, good, I was really worried for a second there ;)
<kyleN_> Can you discuss i18n support in the SDK?
<codealot> how can I access the Ubuntu components Qt source?
<sil-unwell> t1mp: it should be fairly easy to add a date-when-this-first-appeared thing to the generated docs, then, I would think (although I don't know much about qml generated docs so I could be totally wrong!)
<udsbotu> uds-appdev-1: 5 minutes left in this session!
<udsbotu> uds-appdev-1: 4 minutes left in this session!
<rickspencer3> be careful about keeping the bar for contributions too high
<sil-unwell> the etherpad says "Recommendation: Use QML for creating a beautiful GUI, and C++ for the backend using QML plugins." Was that really the recommendation? Shouldn't it be "Use QML for creating your application, unless you really need to do something that QML can't do, and then use QML for creating a beautiful GUI, and C++ for the backend using QML plugins." ?
<rickspencer3> in terms of talking to you guys first
<rickspencer3> sometimes I make a component for my own apps, and only later realize it might be generally valuable
<rickspencer3> so it's not necessarily the case that I set out to make something generally useful
<udsbotu> uds-appdev-1: 3 minutes left in this session!
<codealot> I'm willing to contribute on the documentation
<greyback> codealot: yay!!
<t1mp> sil-unwell: that recommendation was quoted from gerry.
<t1mp> greyback: do you agree with the quote?
 * sil-unwell disagrees with greyback then ;-)
<codealot> yes it is
<kyleN_> what is the i18n/l10n story?
<t1mp> kyleN_: I think there is no more time now to discuss i18n.
<udsbotu> uds-appdev-1: 2 minutes left in this session!
<t1mp> kyleN_: it is fully based on gettext.
<t1mp> kyleN_: it is there. Basically a QML binding for gettext.
<greyback> sil-unwell: I'd more put it, if QML&JS does not let you do backend tasks you want, then you need to use C++ for the backend
<sil-unwell> greyback: right, that's what I think too :) Would you like to update the etherpad?
<greyback> sil-unwell: can do
<kyleN_> t1mp: good.
<codealot> I'd said this earlier: can have a look at Blackberry Cascades and see if we can borrow something from it?
<ralsina_> Isn't linkguist the "recommended" way to i18n QML apps?
<sil-unwell> ralsina_: we want to intergrate with Ubuntu's existing excellent translations structure.
<t1mp> kyleN_: i18n.tr() function links to gettext(). Documenting it propery is on our TODO list.
<udsbotu> uds-appdev-1: This session has ended.
<Mirv> linguist is a Qt tool for translations, but eg. KDE uses gettext nevertheless
<ara> ta!
<kyleN_> t1mp, how about plurals (ngettext()) and others. :)
<dpm> thanks everyone!!!
<kyleN_> cheers
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
<jdstrand> thanks!
<codealot> cheers
<mzanetti> cheers guys
<theDoctor_> Good session
<dpm> kyleN_, we can expand on i18n on the next session, sorry there wasn't much time
<kyleN_> dpm. ack
<eclecticgeekery> Stupid question time: should a complete newbie forget about Quickly/Python/GTK and focus on learning QML/QT instead?
<t1mp> kyleN_: plurals are supported as i18n.tr("singular", "plural", n) and we have i18n.dtr() where you can pass the domain as the first parameter.
<eclecticgeekery> Didn't want to interrupt session with my silly question.
<kyleN_> good question eclectic
<greyback> eclecticgeekery: what sort of application would you like to make? For desktop or phone?
<kyleN_> t1mp: thanks for that answer.
<bjaanes> eclecticgeekery, not stupid question at all. You should have asked it :) I think its a good bet to focus on QML/QT for both phone AND desktop.
<codealot> eclecticgeekery: I think I'd say yes. I've used both QML and QT and QML just feels straight to the point
<greyback> eclecticgeekery: I tend to agree with bjaanes & codealot :)
<codealot> and coming from a C++ background, you feel depreived
<eclecticgeekery> Thanks guys.
<codealot> of some control
<lool> how was the SDK roadmap session?  :-)
<bjaanes> eclecticgeekery, np. happy coding!
<codealot> lool: its been a great session
<lool> cool
<lool> I'll watch the recording
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu App Development Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21675/appdev-1303-app-develo
<JoseeAntonioR> dpm: ping
<robin-gloster> o/
<bjaanes> picture:yes, sound:yes;
<JoseeAntonioR> dpm: works
<dpm> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21675/appdev-1303-app-development-roundtable/
<nerochiaro> yes
<DasWu> both great
<mpalo91> yes
<netcurli> see and hear
<Mirv> yes
<theDoctor_> gotcha
<highvoltage> hi!
<robin-gloster> could you add lower third please
<bjaanes> what robin-gloster said, lower third +1
<bjaanes> It would be really helpful if we could see the names in the hangout...
<robin-gloster> dpm^
<greyback> bjaanes: if you hover your mouse over our pictures, do you see our names?
<highvoltage> I missed the question, sorry :)
<DasWu> I started using it on the weekend looks good so far
<bjaanes> greyback, not really, no
<t1mp> greyback: no, not in the youtube stream
<greyback> ah ok, sorry
<JoseeAntonioR> and mute when you're not talking :)
<JoseeAntonioR> dpm: Hangout Toolbox>Lower Third tab, the lower third app is not working anymore
<robin-gloster> yep, have been using the sdk. working nice so far biggest problem so far is lacking documentation for compnents and sys integration
<bhenderson256> Just downloaded SDK last night... and haven't had a chance to dig in yet...
<t1mp> robin-gloster: what do you mean with sys integration?
<robin-gloster> e.g. how to use notifications in ubuntu touch
<bjaanes> For my part, it worked well. However, it is lacking in documentation and examples. I am also very confused about screen size I should use and so forth.
<DasWu> I don't really know whether its sdk related but I am still a bit confused on how to get data sources behind the qml, like how to access calender data that might be fetched from google calender
<nerochiaro> i had to write my own
<nerochiaro> using libindicate
<Mirv> o/
<bzoltan> DasWu:  I will cover it
<dbarth> bzoltan: hey, and when you think you'll have an emulator, or something that can run the images we've published? i've seen that being part of the topics for this week
<DasWu> bzoltan: cool!
<ali1234> yes, we really need an emulator....
<t1mp> dbarth: fyi, we discussed in the previous session http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21630/appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap/
<bjaanes> People, mute when not talking. Its hard enough to hear the ones who are talking allready
<bzoltan> dbarth:  I will say few words here too about emulation
<bzoltan>  bjaanes: good point
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu App Development Roundtable | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21675/appdev-1303-app-development-roundtable/
<DasWu> Can I check what plugins are available already so I don't do redundant work
<bjaanes> I assume you know this: but a rich and updated documentation is reeeeally important. I would like to be able to find full API reference, examples, best practice, tutorials and everything else from the sdk docs site
<dbarth> right
<dbarth> ok, makes sense; thanks
<DasWu> yeah I like this idea of a repo as well
<sil-unwell> dpm: I think I disagree about having a how-to-write-a-plugin tutorial until there are more tutorials, otherwise if there are only 2 and one is about plugins then it looks like C++ is more important than it actually is :)
<bjaanes> I agree. Focus should be on how to write good apps.
<greyback> sil-unwell: yeah I agree, writing plugin is a more advanced topic. The Qt documentation already covers it anyway
<DasWu> Maybe you can link to good tutorials on the page
<sil-unwell> dpm: insulting question, here. The currency converter app in the tutorial looks quite ugly :( Does it look nicer with a newer version of the SDK?
<robin-gloster> they should be added to the documentation anyway
<sil-unwell> dpm: note, this is not your fault ;)
<greyback> DasWu: which page? The QtCreator docs do include it already. I can point you to it if you want
<DasWu> would be great, but I was also refering to the app developer page so a new developer finds them also
<sil-unwell> right. It is not very clear at all at the moment what I'm supposed to use. The app design guidelines say things like "you need a header!" but there's no good example of how to use that in QML because the tutorial was written before Header existed ;) Should every app have a MainView, for example? These are, I think, the tutorials which are needed.
<t1mp> sil-unwell: agreed
<sil-unwell> I am sort of prepared to say that a new release of the SDK should not be released until the documentation and core examples are also updated. But I imagine there will be fight-back from bzoltan  about that ;)
<sil-unwell> Yes. Yes, I want you to hold it back. :)
<sil-unwell> You wouldn't release, for example, a new SDK version with a broken Label in it. I think the documentation is as important as the code ;)
<greyback> DasWu: I see what you mean. https://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qml-extending-tutorial-index.html or https://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qtqml-cppintegration-exposecppattributes.html are best places to start
 * sil-unwell laughs
<t1mp> I agree with bzoltan. It is still a developer preview
<DasWu> greyback: thank you I will look into them
<t1mp> but documentation is very high on our priority list
<greyback> bzoltan: what's the IRC channel we should hang out on, so public can ask us questions?
<greyback> bzoltan: #ubuntu-devel?
<Mirv> #ubuntu-touch
<codealot> #ubuntu-touch would be best for that
<codealot> or rather #ubuntu-touch-devel
<codealot> since #ubuntu-touch is more of talk on design and other issues
<t1mp> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit for UI toolkit bugs
<dpm> ubuntu-phone (AT) listsl (DOT) launchpad (DOT) net for discussion
<DasWu> dpm: I like the idea, i was a bit lost on where to ask questions
<Mirv> we're using the ubuntu-ui-toolkit project also for tracking PPA issues for 12.04 & 12.10 users
<t1mp> facebook integration for qtcreator ;)
<t1mp> ^(please don't take that serious)
<nerochiaro> bzoltan: seems pretty long term
<DasWu> would maybe interesting if a new thing is developed to see like this is how things should be used now
<nerochiaro> david_: another point is, do we really want to cram everything in the IDE ? Isn't it better to have more things that work well than one thing that tries to do everything ?
<DasWu> sound and video are good here
<netcurli> it would be good to have this welcome screen with news and so maybe also as website
<DasWu> I think the biggest thing to get the community involved is an easy entry point
<t1mp> now is the first time I look at the standard welcome screen from QtCreator. Normally I open a project with it immediately.
<DasWu> I used it a little and so far its a nice sdk
<greyback> netcurli: +1
<codealot> I agree on that
<zsombi_> t1mp: it is still the first screen that opens in QtCreator :)
<greyback> DasWu: glad you like it.
<codealot> thank you all
<bhenderson256> thank you!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
<dpm> everyone: plenaries are now on ubuntuonair.com
<payloadd> I think in the ubuntu dev documentation it is not emphasized that one should develop the Qt way and look into Qt docs to get things done. It took me a while to find and look into Qt Mobility for example.
<lool> dbarth: did you bring up remote apps?
<lool> QUESTION: would it be possible to support the remote apps use case (thinclient) with API similar to webapps?  e.g. to integrate apps in the launcher
<dbarth> lool: sorry i missed that
<dbarth> otp
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu Touch Core Apps Project | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21616/appdev-1303-coreapps/
<QtRoS> Hi all
<mainerror> o/
<macastiblancot> Hi folks
<FunnyLookinHat> howdy
<QtRoS> I can't login, is it normal?
<FunnyLookinHat> QtRoS, to the etherpad?  Try joining the linked group ( ubuntu-etherpad-users I think?  )
<FunnyLookinHat> Then refresh
<QtRoS> How can I join this group?
<QtRoS> Now I am on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21616/appdev-1303-coreapps/, link from david's letter
<QtRoS> In bottom I see form to logging in pad.ubuntu.com
<robru> I can't seem to get the video on this one...
<QtRoS> But I can't login :(
<fginther> I've refreshed and see no video, should I?
<robru> can somebody link the youtube page directly here?
<QtRoS> Any one from RSS Reader team?
<FunnyLookinHat> robru, I don't believe it has started yet - should be available soon
<FunnyLookinHat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5gtCOQrugkk
<robru> oh, there we go
<robru> FunnyLookinHat, thanks
<alecu`> yes!
<bfiller> we can see you
<FunnyLookinHat> Yup.
<gatox_> yes
<isantop> We've got you#
<robru> yes
<alecu`> loud and clear!
<ahayzen> o/
<b_> test
<alecu`> I think gatox_  should join
<alecu`> he's working on the twitter client
<FunnyLookinHat> S76 here - we'll join the hangout if there's room
<nerochiaro> hi folks
<gatox_> alecu`: dpm i prefer tomorrow in the twitter app to join to the hangout... not having the best connection today
<fmunozs> I'm from the twitter team too
<daliusd> I'm calculator dev ;-) I will answer questions here if there will be any
<nerochiaro> any questions on notepad or camera, you can ask me
<mzanetti> nerochiaro: those are not core apps :P
<nerochiaro> mzanetti: thought camera was
<nerochiaro> mzanetti: seems pretty core to me
<mzanetti> nerochiaro: its about the community developer core apps
<nerochiaro> mzanetti: ok, clear titles then :)
<pmcgowan> I think its fair to include the ones we already worked on
<pmcgowan> in the discussion
<isantop> Browser
<mainerror> Awesome effect.
<mainerror> Keep it like that. :D
<pmcgowan> infinty
<bjaanes> To infinty and beyond!
<robru> can see only grass
<fmunozs> backgraound screen
<isantop> Only desktop
<bjaanes> No
<robru> no calendar
<macastiblancot> nope
<daliusd> basically we are waiting for further design ideas
<pmcgowan> do have recommended designs in place for all the apps or a timeline for that?
<pmcgowan> thanks mika
<bfiller> we might want to think about having a mentor from the Phablet Engineering team for some of the key apps to ensure consistency, sound architecture, unit testing, etc..
<codealot> anyone working on the Terminal?
<isantop> Are these core apps listed the only apps in the pipeline, or are there plans to expand this list?
<pmcgowan> any code reviews or merge reviews at this time?
<bfiller> thanks David
<pmcgowan> I can work with popey on that
<daliusd> pmcgowan: we do that in our team
<pmcgowan> great
<daliusd> There is jenkins even running but it could run qmltestrunner as well (it looks like it doesn't)
<dptm-desktop> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
<DasWu> are there efforts to unify things on an architectural level, like handling accounts, i.e. google account might be used in mail, contacts, calendar and it would be unwise to store the login stuff more than once
<pmcgowan> DasWu: yes want to use ubuntu online accounts
<DasWu> pmcgowan: is there stuff done that I could use already?
<gatox_> DasWu: pmcgowan we are using online accounts in the twitter app
<pmcgowan> needs to be more obvious as part of the kit, right
<bfiller> DasWu: hasn't landed yet in the images but think they are almost done
<bfiller> gatox_: you using the friends libraries?
<dobey> gatox_: are you using the gwibber stuff? or will there be gwibber and a twitter app both?
<bfiller> friends-service and friend api are currently being used by share-app
<robru> mardy has already developed a maps app in qt, but I'm unsure if it's compatible with the phone or not.
<dobey> i don't think anyone would ship a smart phone in 2013 without a maps app
<gatox_> dobey: bfiller: no, we are not using anything from gwibber right now.... neither friends (which is made on python)... we need to analyze that a little further...... but currently we are using our own implementation in c++ talking with online accounts, the keyring and the twitter api
<pmcgowan> yes we do intend to have a map app
<bfiller> gatox_: you guys should sync with kenvandine to talk further about that
<pmcgowan> starting with a webapp approach perhaps with something like here.net
<dobey> for maps, i'd recommend possibly building on leaflet.js as a starting point (if their license permits this sort of use)
<kenvandine> the people lens uses friends too
<alecu`> A browser opening google maps, is better than having a crappy map app. (and remember ios maps!)
<DasWu> gatox_: is there a branch that I can have a look at so I can use that code for the google account stuff I want to use it for the calender stuff
<mmcc_> gatox_ and anyone thinking about twitter clients ,don't forget the 100K user token limit for twitter API clients that "replicate the twitter core user experience": https://dev.twitter.com/terms/api-terms
<dobey> OpenMapQuest provides very nice tiles
<dobey> this is why i suggest building on leaflet.js
<fmunozs> gatox_, I see no merge request for the c++ code with online account integration on the ubuntu twitter app?
<gatox_> DasWu: https://github.com/saruneko/tori
<DasWu> gatox_: thx
<gatox_> fmunozs: we haven't make an attemp to merge anything yet... we need to discuss a couple of things more i think
<bfiller> regarding maps, qtlocation is working and enabled so that should be utilised for any maps application work
<daliusd> no complains :)
<DasWu> for the calendar app I am really happy with the designs
<fredbuntu> How is the browser going?
<QtRoS> Discussion about design problems, or what? And who are those guys? I know only David :)
<QtRoS> Ahaha Thanks :)
<fredbuntu> Okay, thanx
<codealot> can we borrow from the PC-BSD phi packaging way?
<codealot> *pbi
<fmunozs> should the people from other core app teams wait for designs from the Design Team, or they will just focus on those apps already?
<flosky> Will you be able to sync the calendar across different phones / PCs (via U1, Gmail, etc)??
<PaulyboyUK> thimk thats a must have!
<codealot> **sorry meant for different room
<DasWu> flosky: I guess assuming that we can use things like the google accounts and have support for ical syncing should be possible
<DasWu> to test I will probably look into supporting ical first
<dpm> fmunozs, let me answer your question in a minute
<isantop> What tools are being used to create the app wireframes?
<isantop> What tools are being used to create the app wireframes?
<dpm> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/appdeveloperuploadprocess/grid
<fmunozs> thanks
<isantop> What is the timeframe for fleshing out the design guidelines?
<isantop> THanks
<QtRoS> This girl is really positive :)
<QtRoS> Smiling all the time
<daliusd> Thanks
<fmunozs> bue
<QtRoS> Bye!
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
#ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 2013-03-06
<dholbach> heyhey
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Planning the Ubuntu SDK Week | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21629/appdev-1303-sdk-week-planning/
<netcurli> hello
<dholbach> dpm, will you be in this session?
<dpm> dholbach, sorry, I swapped rooms. I'll be on the "Refocus the App Developer Site" session
<dpm> in this room
<vibhav> o/
<dholbach> aha
 * vibhav waves
<dpm> sorry for the hickup guys, my fault starting in a minute
<DavidChen> no problem
<popey> Please hold...
<Mirv> vibhav: do you want to get to the hangout, or waving just otherwise? :)
<vibhav> Mirv: Below 18 :(
<popey> right.. should work now...
<popey> who needs to be in the planning sdk session?
<mpt> Rheet!
<dpm> is the video feed working now?
<popey> i haven't started the stream
<popey> nobody is on it
<popey> just me
<dpm> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21617/appdev-1303-developer-site-gomobile/
<popey> oops, wrong channel :D
<mpt> So he's the guy we blame for lack of radio controls? :-)
<Mirv> there is some messup, the tracks for appdev-1 and appdev-2 have switched
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Refocus the Ubuntu App Developer site to go mobile | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21617/appdev-1303-developer-site-gomobile/
<Mirv> ok now the topics are right, people possibly on wrong channels
 * cwayne is excited for this session :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Ubuntu Hundred Scopes | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21618/appdev-1303-hundred-scopes/
<cwayne> yep
<__lucio__> sorry, phone not working, ill be here.
<cwayne> i've written a bunch, plan to write more as well
<davidcalle> Here (at work, no hangout for me)
<cwayne> the godfather of community scopes ^^ :)
<Mirv> he is :)
<gusch> hi ;)
<alecu`> Hi, I'm alecu, I work on the U1 music store scope.
<pedronis> hi, Samuele, working on smartscopes on the server (u1-di)
<selena2013> hello greetings from Miami thanks for all the work we appreciate it
<davidcalle> Regarding ports to the new API, I'd like to point out all the tools we have in the trunk of lp:ubuntu-scopes that make it very easy
<cwayne> does the fact that the 13.04 api hasn't changed mean that these scopes aren't going to be installed by default anymore?
<davidcalle> cwayne: unless we plan to port them back, they won't
<cwayne> are those going to be ported to a quickly template?
<davidcalle> Yes, the search and parsing methods from existing scopes can be basically imported as is in a new scope template (for Python)
<davidcalle> cwayne: that would be nice, but I don't have enough experience with it myself
 * cwayne volunteers to port to quickly
<davidcalle> cwayne: :)
<davidcalle> Basically, there is a scope-init script that allows to run $ scope-init <scope name> , which generates a full template, including a small test framework
<cwayne> aren't some written in vala as well?
<kamal> davidcalle: does scope-init relate only to the new/future API, or is it useful with the current/13.04 API also?
<davidcalle> kamal: only the future API
<kamal> davidcalle: thanks
<Saviq> dpm, cwayne asked about vala?
<cwayne> ack, thanks
<alecu`> QUESTION: even python for scopes for the phone?
<davidcalle> dpm: regarding the new API, there is a tutorial being done as we speak (which completion depends on the state of the API)
<thostr_> alecu`: in best case we'd like to get rid of any python on phone
<alecu`> ack, thanks.
<kenvandine> i don't think we want different code bases for scopes on the phone vs. desktop
<robru> who is speaking right now?
<robru> (missed introductions)
<pedronis> of course the picture is complicated, because the trade-offs are different for local local scopes, and scopes that can be run on the server
<robru> thanks
<alecu`> For scopes that run locally (desktop or phone), my suggestion would be to use QtNetwork to do the network calls, since that way proxy access would be transparent.
<alecu`> That can be used from both python and C++ scopes, don't know the story about go.
<thostr_> alecu`: well, scopes should not know anything about networking
<__lucio__> most scopes will ask a remote service for info to present
 * cwayne will take a work item to port the scope creation tool to quickly
<verterok> alecu`: ATM scopes do their own networking, like plain-old urlopen(...). You have a point regarding proxy support, maybe the libunity API must provide some kind of helpers to support proxies?
<davidcalle> Sure
<fugue88> It makes sense for scopes to work through a networking library, especially for mobile devices where networking is often managed differently for power reasons.
<robru> verterok, davidcalle fugue88 : if you use libsoup, you get GNOME proxy support for free, and this library is accessible in python through GI
<fugue88> Platform API, ah yes, that would be nice.
<alecu`> robru: my guess is that we want to get rid of gnome for the phone, so the suggestion to use qtnetwork is moving forwards
<robru> fair
<alecu`> and go's support of proxy types is nowhere near the level of qtnetwork or libsoup
<ayr_ton> The new api working progress is needing some help to fix bugs? How to colaborate with code?
<alecu`> thanks all, bye!
<davidcalle> Thanks all
<dpm> thanks everyone!
<fugue88> o/
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Twitter core app plans | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21681/appdev-1303-coreapps-twitter/
<popey> o/
<robin-gloster_> could you add lower third everyone please :)
<popey_> can do in 5 mins
<BigWhale> Are we going to end up with many different applications for all the social services? I know about the problems with aggregation, I worked on Gwibber. But still... :)
<popey_> kenvandine: can you add me on that meeting - I have the list of individuals if you need it
<dpm> popey, added you to the work item :)
<popey> ta
<popey> just spammmed kenvandine with the names and addresses
<dpm> hi fmunozs
<BigWhale> The idea about aggregating messages from different services is a great idea. We've been doing this from the beginning.
<fmunozs> hello, sorry for being late
<popey> he has them
<robru> hi fmunozs
<willcooke> we have the aggregated messaging menu which is great for 1 to 1 type messages, we need a specific app for each service so that you can browse around
<robin-gloster_> do contributors to a core app have to sign the contributor agreement if they do small fixes? because i did 2 little patches which are integrated into the calculator
<willcooke> robru: so 1:1 messages, DMs, SMS, Facebook messaging messages, things from one or more person to YOU work very well in the messaging menu.
<willcooke> but if I want to just look at "stuff" in FB, or a general Twitter feed, then an app is a better fit
<BigWhale> Or one application that can handle all those services and have different 'views'? Like Ken mentioned? I think it would be a good idea to keep everything under the same roof.
<willcooke> e.g. I wouldn't want my *entire* twitter feed in the messaging menu
<willcooke> kenvandine: +1
<willcooke> kenvandine: thanks!
<willcooke> kenvandine: you are wise
<BigWhale> he also has beard!
<willcooke> a wise wise beard
<vrruiz> On the iPhone only notifications are shown on the "messaging menu"
<vrruiz> RTs, mentions, direct messages
<robin-gloster_> dpm should i add you as  Canonical Project Manager or contact in the agreement?
<dpm> robin-gloster_, Alan Pope
<BigWhale> More technical question... did anyone solve the problems with search on twitter? The problems with different ID's for users in the search feed and in the regular twitter feed.
<BigWhale> User IDs that search returns for users are different from the user IDs in the normal feed. I had tons of problems mapping those.
<BigWhale> so if you wanted to follow someone from the search feed, you ended up following a completely different user ... It was bizarre.
<fmunozs> I'm not sure if this was already mentioned today, but on yesterday meeting somebody asked about the 100k user tokens limit for applications  that attempt to replicate Twitter's core user experience https://dev.twitter.com/terms/api-terms
<fmunozs> yes, if this has already been talked with the Twitter team to ask for permissions ? or it just doesnt apply
<ssweeny> i think the question is more about whether Friends will get booted from twitter for violating the TOS
<BigWhale> Yeah, twitter made a hard limit on how many instances of an application can access API
<BigWhale> this _really_ needs to be addressed and looked into. :)
<robin-gloster_> could it be that's mainly meant for online services?
<vrruiz> lol
<willcooke> down boy
<kenvandine> damn.... someone rang the doorbell
<kenvandine> and the dog hates that...
<vrruiz> Already dark in Finland?
<vrruiz> Do you plan a QML API for "sharing" contents?
<vrruiz> Like a popup menu showing "Facebook, Google+, Twitter" other apps can use
<vrruiz> You rock!
<willcooke> \o/
<robin-gloster_> is something like web/android intents planned?
 * vrruiz actually taking a look to it... cool!
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> web intents are cool
<willcooke> we should look at it
<willcooke> but not #1 priority right now
<robin-gloster_> it's kind of that an app can say in provides an interface and other apps can call it with their information
<willcooke> let's revisit in a few months, once we've got destop web apps support nailed in the phone browser
<robin-gloster_> e.g. photo app wants to share photos and other apps can register photo sharing like facebook, mms etc.
<robin-gloster_> willcooke: could be relevant to app-to-app communication
<willcooke> we don't do it right now
<willcooke> but we should certainly look in to it
<popey> 20:00 UTC is the time of the next 30 min twitter meeting
<popey> will be in #ubuntu-touch-meeting
<popey_> no friday
<popey_> sorry, you said "end of the week", i followed on from that :)
<popey_> great!
<robin-gloster_> short elaboration on android's intents: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6578051/what-is-intent-in-android could be useful to keep that in mind
<popey_> laaag :)
<willcooke> cya
<BigWhale> Great session.
<fmunozs> thans
<fmunozs> thanks*!
<vrruiz> bye!
<robru> thanks everybody ;-)
<fmunozs> popey, hello, will the friends people be in the meeting tomorrow?
<fmunozs> friday*
<robru> fmunozs, I should be.
<popey> great.
<popey> thanks robru / kenvandine
<fmunozs> thanks, I have noted that gatox/diego has some doubts about using the Friends backend and wanted to use his own c++ code to interact with twitter, i think we should really decide that now :)
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
<robru> fmunozs, I'm not sure why they would not want to use friends... all the work is already done! and it's already in the phone anyway! so I don't see why anybody would want to duplicate the effort.
<robru> fmunozs, if there are any architectural issues with friends, we are happy to adapt to accomodate your needs. I've been working on this for the last 6 months and like I've said a couple times, it's 90% done
<popey> robru: what's your email address.. i can invite you to the meeting..
<robru> popey, robert.park@canonical.com
<popey> ta
<robru> yw
<fmunozs> robru, yea I totally get the point, makes no sense to redo everything and the framework is there for a reason, I just want to have it clear and start developing
<codealot> got caught up in some traffic
<codealot> How were the sessions today?
<dpm> codealot, good :) you should check out the twitter app one
<codealot> thanks dpm let me have a look at it
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | App Development Community Growth | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21615/appdev-1303-app-development-community-growth/
<zebaszp> the video is up!
<zebaszp> hi there! :D
<zebaszp> dpm yay! :D
<zebaszp> also, you should type "QUESTION:"
<bzoltan> dpm: I would join :)
<dpm> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21615/appdev-1303-app-development-community-growth/
<dmj_nova> I'd be happy to join
<zebaszp> awkward silence...
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: How large do we think the App Dev community is currently? Is it measured/measurable?
<rrnwexec> QUESTION: Would we consider  a "registration" for App developers? That way we can gain a sense of how many are in the pipeline, who's doing what, and where we need to focus?
<zebaszp> could you please mute your mics when you're not talking? there's a lot of echo
<codealot> I'm based in Kenya, Africa and we have a large presence of developers and also adoption is great but less exposure on how to contribute or rather finding it much easier to contribute to android
<rrnwexec> ok. i'll join
<codealot> so how to address this?
<Atlantic778> QUESTION: Can blueprints on launchpad help with mockups and ideas for deciding which apps are the most atractive and needed for users?
<codealot> can we start off with some Ubuntu awareness campaign? but my first question prior to that would be "Why Ubuntu (for a developer)"?
<codealot> I'm thinking of, if we simplify ways of interaction and present much more documentation it can be a step forward
<codealot> I agree with David on that :)
<Mirv> sorry I'm listening to the xubuntu talk, but just added the mer/maemo/nemo/sailfish to meego since it's all part of the same evolution
<Mirv> community wise, not technically
<codealot> great idea
<dpm-desktop> thanks Mirv!
<codealot> also with regards to the local community dev, any show of support from Ubuntu/Canonical itself would pull a crowd and awareness and exposure begins. I talking with much regards to devs based in Africa
<Mirv> codealot: I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase should be updated to somehow consider the whole culture shift towards mobility, applications etc with regard to LoCo (just an idea to throw)
<Mirv> like starting to thinki what kind of LoCo resources could be shared between LoCos
<codealot> Mirv: I agree on that. Let have in mind that some resources we may want to utilise might not be present all over
<zebaszp> what about the UAK?
* udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/appdev-1/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.log
<codealot> gnite to you all
<dpm> good night, thanks everyone!
<lkolko19> hey
<z3r0coo1> APP cool
