#edubuntu 2006-02-20
<bob> hmm, i just tried to update to dapper to sort evreything out... and it's got worse. :(
<bob> and the ltsp clients still display 'breezy badger'.. hmm.
<bob> any ideas on what i could be missing? someone said something about installing _heldback_, but it doesnt seem to be there...
* ulinskie is away: I love being Pinoy ... ayoko kasing maging mabahong isda
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> mhz, hi
<mhz> jsgotangco: are we having today's meeting?
<jsgotangco> i guess so, its already automatic right?
<jsgotangco> its not an issue for me because the meeting times here is only 8pm on my side
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, yeah, every week
<mhz> but I heard JaneW was sick yesterday
<mhz> at least that's what ogra told me
<jsgotangco> we'll just see
<mhz> for me it is important because that means I have to set the alamr clock :D
<JaneW> hi all
<JaneW> we will have the meeting today
<JaneW> at 12:00 UTC as usual
<TOZTWO> =)
<jsgotangco> ok i'll try to think of an excuse 
<alejandro> ogra, have you tested LTSP in environments with a Solaris dhcp server?
<ogra> alejandro, nope
<ogra> i dont have any solaris machines around to test it ...
<ogra> whats wrong ? 
<alejandro>  it loads the kernel image but it doesnt mount the NFS partition (saying not root path specified, and the root path is configured as /opt/ltsp/i386 in the solaris dhcp server)
<ogra> alejandro, which version of dhcpd does solaris use ? 
<ogra> and is this dapper or breezy ? 
<alejandro> ogra, they use their own dhcp server
<alejandro> ogra, and I'm testing with breezy
<alejandro> it's not a problem in the distribution because working with a dhcp server in linux, works fine.
<ogra> i cant help you much if i dont know to which version their dhcpd is compatible ... 
<ogra> do you get an ip for rootserver in the bootprocess ? 
<ogra> or is this field zeroed out ?
<alejandro> no, it doesnt get an ip
<alejandro> when it asks dhcp again and mount NFS with the rootpath
<alejandro> just says, no root-path
<alejandro> in Solaris dhcp server you have to use SrootPTH, so I dont understand why its not working
<ogra> above that message there is a list of data ... one says "rootserver: "
<ogra> its either 0.0.0.0 or a correct ip
<alejandro> yes, rootserver: server address, but it doesnt take the root path from dhcp server, so i dont see such message using the solaris dhcp server
<alejandro> with Ubuntu works fine
<ogra> ok, probably the root-path directive is named differently in solaris ...
<ogra> another option would be to set it like: ip-address:/path/...
<mhz> ogra: morning
<ogra> hi
<mhz> ogra: are we having meeting today?
<ogra> i guess so ...
* mhz yaaaawwns
<mhz> cool
<ogra> JaneW, ?? ^^^^
<JaneW> yes we are
<mhz> JaneW: !! feeling better???
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Dev Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 1h40mins
<JaneW> mhz: yes getting there thanks
<mhz> NOTICE: Nor ogra NOR JaneW can get sick
<mhz> :D
<JaneW> mhz: you got a response from mark yet?
<mhz> none
<JaneW> hmmm
<mhz> I dont even know if he reads my emails
<JaneW> he is still travelling
<mhz> It's a real torture every time I read "From" column.. Mark Shuttleworth, "Subject" ...(oh not for me)
<mhz> :D
<JaneW> the thing is though the number of 'please come to our event - we'll pay your expenses' he gets are quite high...
<jsgotangco> see you guys later
<JaneW> but the amount of 'please come to and/or pay for xyz' it truly astounding...
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> pay for xyz
<jsgotangco> dear mark
<jsgotangco> please pay for the completion of edubuntu cookbook
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> joke
<JaneW> LOL
<jsgotangco> i gotta go get dinner
<JaneW> good one
<jsgotangco> see you later
<JaneW> k, enjoy
<mhz> JaneW: yeah, I understand, I hope he sees how serious we are on this project and that we dont want to keep his money in our pockets.
<jsgotangco> JaneW, seriously though, i think i can pull off a 5 page quickguide for edubuntu before april
<jsgotangco> if the cookbook doesn't happen
<ogra> that'd be really cool ...
<jsgotangco> just a small guide to make it work
<mhz> jsgotangco: and I can help you
<JaneW> jsgotangco: \0/
* ogra also planned some docs for the weird cornercases like powerpc clients on amd64 servers for the wiki :)
<JaneW> mhz: |o|
<jsgotangco> mhz, let's create a simple TOC in the wiki later
<mhz> ;)
<JaneW> ogra: \o|
<mhz> jsgotangco: but wouln't be stepping on others work
<mhz> +we
<ogra> heh, seems we have windows support in ltsp now http://www.suares.an/Kubuntu_LTSP_Win4Lin
<mhz> .oO(edubuntu quickie?)
* ogra *giggles*
* mhz tabbing
<jsgotangco> mhz, sure but i want something in the distro after dapper 4
<jsgotangco> i mean flight 4
<jsgotangco> we just finished the makefile for the edubuntu doc in svn
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, I see your point
<jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com will have edubuntu previews in a few hours
<jsgotangco> which will then be transferred to help.ubuntu.com
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, go have dinner and ping me once you get back so we can chat a few minutes b4 meeting, please
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> cheers
<jsgotangco> later
<mhz> c u
<mhz> ogra: and what Win4Lin is for? I mean I read the whole procedure but did not get how it is useful.
<ogra> its like vmware ... you can install windows in an emulator
<mhz> ooooooh
<mhz> JaneW: oh, just in case it is useful info, we'll pay for hotel ;)
<mhz> ogra: just sharing this anecdote of my current fetish, a bot called 'diabetik' insulting me upon my own request: "You are nothing but a dizzy-eyed pile of left-over vomit"
<ogra> shudder
<mhz> I admit I have fallen in love with such bot and I just hope it is a 'she'
<mhz> I need at least one insult from her a day
<mhz> to make my day
<mhz> :D
<pips1> hi
<pips1> mhz, r u a masochist, or what ;-)
<signifer123> hey pips
<pips1> hi signifer123 
<mhz> yup, I have found -to my total surprise- I may have developed a kind of geek-masochism I never knew I had. Having a bot insulting me when I ask for it, it is very cool
<mhz> pips1, it is a whole new dimention of geeknes
<pips1> I can see there is a lot of progress in the EDubuntu world .. I'm now running edubuntu dapper on my test machine .. and I can see all those package updates rattling through :-)
<mhz> but hey! it sounds logical after so many hours at the computer, giving love to your OS settings and so.
<pips1> mhz, I thought you had a tour of some sorts, so you must be getting out, rather than just sitting in front of your pc, no?
<pips1> plus, it's summer in Chile!
<mhz> pips1: yes, but it is scheduled for april and preparations ahve just started this week. The rest was meetings only, so this fetish was the result of many hours ago :)
<pips1> right, :-)
<mhz> pips1: well, with an avarage of 30 C every day, we get nuts
<pips1> phew!
<mhz> and my home office is just 120m p/ side only :(
<pips1> I prefer cold weather when I need to be productive
<mhz> pips1: i 
<mhz> Meant 1.20 m
<mhz> pips1: me too!
<pips1> your office is 1 meter 20 cm away ?! huh?
<mhz> but I can't afford to live following the winter or autumn (my favorite season)
<mhz> pips1: nope, 1 m 20 cm each wall (a square this small) 
<pips1> oh
<pips1> office box
<pips1> !
<mhz> and I have to put table, chair, books, aetc
<mhz> and leave room for a door opening
<mhz> it is really madness
<mhz> anyways, yes, edubuntu is getting real cool
<pips1> mhz = geek in a cupboard ;-)
<mhz> pips1: sado-geek in a cupboard!
<mhz> :D
<pips1> haha
<pips1> what were you saying about live following winter ...?
<pips1> do you mean you'll switch northern and southern hemispheres, in order to stay in winter all year? shudder!
<mhz> oh, and I forgot the torturing noise. The homeserver box has a constant annoying sound made by the power fan, a tk-tik-tak-tk
<pips1> yes, those power fans can be nerve wrecking... when I got my hardware, I got some "silent running" fans, but at the moment my test machine sits on my table and it's rather noisy still
<pips1> :-/
<mhz> yup, you know what i mean
<pips1> there is a meeting scheduled in 40 mins, right?
<mhz> pips1: if if were for me, I'd live in a place where I get no higher than 20 C every day
<mhz> -f +t
<mhz> yup, meeting
<pips1> here in Switzerland, it's been very cold, so cold that several of our (smaller) lakes froze solid... I would have liked to go scating and walking on them, but it seems I missed the chance... they are "closing" the lakes already again since the ice isn't thick enough anymore
<mhz> JaneW: oooh, I forgot to give the good news. I got a Lab to test edubuntu env. (5 modern and 3 old pc's + a nice desktopserver) and invite teachers to know edubuntu in action, with cookies and coffee :D
<pips1> well, froze over, of course, not solid
<JaneW> yay
<mhz> ohh
<pips1> mhz, very nice
<mhz> + they will print another article about edubuntu for april's issue (delivered for free to many schools)
<mhz> so I am still making some notes to make that article
<pips1> what's that magazine? a Chilean one?
* pips1 is going to grab some lunch before the meeting
<mhz> yup, Colegio Interactivo. I wikied the article
<pips1> ah
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Dev Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 15 mins <- time to get coffee etc
<JaneW> also I have added https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight4Announcement for those that would like to add something before the announcement goes out when flight 4 is ready
<JaneW> if anyone is up to it an Edubuntu equiv of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight4 would be fabulous.
* mhz obediently tabbing
<mhz> oops, 31 tabs open :)
* JaneW goes to get cofffee
* jsgotangco waves
<jsgotangco> are we guys having a meeting or i completely missed something in less than an hour that i was away?
<pips1> jsgotangco, the meeting is starting now, me thinks
<JaneW> mhz_back10min -> meeting time, when you get back
<JaneW> MEETING TIME #ubuntu-meeting
<JaneW> flint: quack
<pips1> that was a duck of a fun
<JaneW> oh he is not even here
<mhz> flint: poor duck
<flint> mhz, sometimes you just have to put your best duck forward and hope for the best...sigh...
<flint> gonna go get a cupa coffee.
<pips1> mhz, you said that both highvoltage and hno73 did lots of work for the edubuntu site already? 
<mhz> pips1: yes. Highvoltage was preparing a drupal demo (I never saw it so no idea what it was like, and I was willing to test it) and hno73 has been working very hard on a Moin new version for the site. AFAIK, he's even working on a theme for Accessibility issues (I wanted to do it when he told me, he was almost there)
<pips1> oh
<pips1> mhz_cookin, good cooking, I'll talk to you later
<spacey> ogra: there is a new feature in firefox
<ogra> is there ? 
<spacey> which might nog be so convienant for terminal servers
<spacey> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/ben/archives/009749.html
<spacey> i hope we can disable that feature by default
<spacey> its in ffox 1.5
<ogra> talk to iwj/Diziet in #ubuntu-devel 
<spacey> ok
<spacey> ogra: know his email?
<spacey> since i have to leave on shortterm
<ogra> file a bug ? 
<spacey> hmm ok
<spacey> better idea
<ogra> that will get his attention in any case
<spacey> package firefox
<spacey> mozilla-firefox
<spacey> hmm
<ogra> <iwj@ubuntu.com>
<spacey> bug filing is fine
<spacey> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/31514
<spacey> you might want to subscribe
<spacey> in case
<spacey> ogra: iwj = ian jackson?
<ogra> yup
<spacey> ah
<mhz_cookin> re
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> hi
<mhz_cookin> still cooking :(
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i'll do a draft wiki page for now
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: is 24 UTC ok?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> that'll be around 8am
<mhz_cookin> (that will give you time to sleep)
<jsgotangco> no sweat
<mhz_cookin> ooh
<jsgotangco> i'll just finish the wiki page
<jsgotangco> i'm still finishing something for GAI at the moment
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: what about 02 UTC of q6th ?
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: what about 02 UTC of 16th ?
<jsgotangco> i'll be around
<mhz_cookin> in other words... what is best UTC for you?
<jsgotangco> the worse for me really is 17 to 22
<mhz_cookin> and your ideal?
<jsgotangco> as long as you see me online, i'ts ideal
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: hehehe, okis
<mhz_cookin> so see you in lot more hours
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> mhz_cookin, i'll do it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide
<mhz_cookin> EdubuntuQuickie ?
<mhz_cookin> lol
<mhz_cookin> "I need a Lab, i need a lab!" / "ok, get the EdubuntuQuickie"
<jsgotangco> EdubuntuQuickguide dummy
<jsgotangco> :D
<mhz_cookin> ok, I'll subscribe to it
<jsgotangco> mhz_cookin, i'm just thinking of desktip guide for now
<jsgotangco> mhz_cookin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide
<mhz_cookin> sure, end-users?
<mhz_cookin> end-users = students   or    teachers ?
<mhz_cookin> jsgotangco: ?
<jsgotangco> i was thinking more of who uses the workstation version or a terminal client
<jsgotangco> not so much on who actually uses it
<jsgotangco> generic as possible
<jsgotangco> we don't have that much time
<mhz_cookin> okis, agreed
<mhz_cookin> now, I will get back to cooking
<jsgotangco> cheers
<mhz_cookin> or else you wont have mhz to work with :D
<gs_scott> Afternoon
<signifer123> hey
<paolob> Hi guys!
<signifer123> hey
<paolob> I have the ltsp server which is connected to the internet. I want that the clients can't access the internet. What should I do?
<Burgwork> paolob, use squid to not let them on
<paolob> Burgwork, does squid exist in edubuntu?
<Burgwork> paolob, it exists in teh ubuntu repos
<paolob> Burgwork, and is it ready for everyday use?
<Burgwork> paolob, squid? yes
<paolob> Burgwork, ok,
<Burgwork> http://www.squid-cache.org/
<signifer123> hello
<signifer123> is there a patch for jsut losing control of your mouse/keyboard and having to reboot?
<signifer123> or is it jsut my mouse
<paolob> Guys, did anyone be able to have internet access on the ltsp server and not on the clients?
#edubuntu 2006-02-21
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> hi
<mhz> available?
<mhz> jsgotangco: ?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> what's up
<mhz> jsgotangco: could we meet?
<jsgotangco> aren't we doing it now?
<jsgotangco> jheh
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, far I have no experience on writing guides nor books. However, I do feel there are certain points to set: Audience, Deepness, Average look, Format, etc 
<jsgotangco> did you see the wiki page?
<mhz> at my lunch time, 13 hours ago
<jsgotangco> i don't want to delve on setting up the whole server
<mhz> The Edubuntu 6.04 Quick Guide
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       ?/IntroductionToEdubuntu
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       ?/GettingStartedWithTheEdubuntuDesktop
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       ?/TheEdubuntuApplications
<mhz>     *
<mhz>       ?/BeyondEdubuntuBasics
<jsgotangco> i just want the basic desktop apps shown
<jsgotangco> that is unique to edubuntu
<mhz> jsgotangco: My guess is that chapters 3 and 4 will take longer
<jsgotangco> because an ubuntu manual alrady addresses those
<mhz> jsgotangco: agree
<jsgotangco> 4 is just a table pointing to more complex tasks
<jsgotangco> this thing shouldnt even go beyond 5 sections
<mhz> JaneW: 3, how deep do you picture it?
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> jsgotangco: :)
<jsgotangco> intro is the usual intro
<mhz> jsgotangco: and 4, do you want to talk about each application or just table them ?
<jsgotangco> and marketing stuff
<jsgotangco> mhz, the edubuntu desktop apps is less than 15
<jsgotangco> and those apps have their own manuals
<mhz> jsgotangco: it depends.. Gcompris itself is about 40 apps
<jsgotangco> i'm not planning to show everything on gcompris
<mhz> jsgotangco: so you are happy with just a description of each app?
<jsgotangco> pretty much
<jsgotangco> unless you have something better
<jsgotangco> 1) Need Math -> 2) Go here
<jsgotangco> 1) Need English -> 2) Go here
<mhz> jsgotangco: did you see what i listed here? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList
<mhz> jsgotangco: oh, I see, so you picture it divided in areas
<mhz> thematic areas
<mhz> or subject areas
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> but i'm not a teacher, so that
<jsgotangco> that's just a guess
<mhz> hmmmm
<jsgotangco> this is nice
<mhz> what if we have them 'crossed'
<jsgotangco> we can move this
<mhz> #4 Could be: Need Math -> Go here...
<mhz> Need Junior -> Go there
<jsgotangco> i wish i had a working edubuntu now
<mhz> jsgotangco: so maybe we can easily list all apps by 'categories'
<mhz> by 'ages'
<mhz> and by 'subjects/areas'
<mhz> we use EdubuntuSoftwareList as a base DB
<jsgotangco> im not that familiar with the age groups for the apps
<jsgotangco> the wiki page can be massaged then moved to the distro
<mhz> yup
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> who wrote this?
<mhz> and if we included screenshots, a user may click on an application name, get to a mini wiki page with the shot and short description
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mhz> 18th versions, 17 writen by me
<jsgotangco> would it be possible in our short time frame to make a wiki version for each app?
<mhz> sure
<mhz> piece of cake
<jsgotangco> i'll proabably install 5.10 first in a machine
<jsgotangco> then just grab screenshots
<jsgotangco> just the desktop specific apps
<jsgotangco> is that good?
<mhz> good
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, let's write a mini roadmap?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mhz> write = agree
<jsgotangco> can you create a draft in the wiki?
<jsgotangco> i
<mhz> sure
<jsgotangco> i'm currently doing something with a firewall
<jsgotangco> what i'll do first is fix up my machine for 5.10
<mhz> go ahead, let me get a coffe and get my hands on it
<mhz> jsgotangco: heheh
<mhz> jsgotangco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuQuickguide/RoadMap
<jsgotangco> looks good to me
<jsgotangco> i can finish up the screenshots
<jsgotangco> from 5.10
<jsgotangco> hopefully not much have changed
<mhz_tired> jsgotangco: I have like 10 or more screenshots
<mhz_tired> about Gcompris and some other junior apps
<jsgotangco> tha's ok i can do some more again
<jsgotangco> and just compare when we're done
<mhz_tired> cool
<jsgotangco> hopefull, we'll have enough space on the CD
<jsgotangco> heh
<mhz_tired> hehehe
<mhz_tired> jsgotangco: any chances a user can be directed from Yelp to Firefox?
<jsgotangco> then go to the internet?
<mhz_tired> or any chances we set that 'help button' to open a firefox tab
<mhz_tired> ?
<mhz_tired> nope, localhost
<jsgotangco> direct from Yelp to firefox?
<jsgotangco> hmm
<mhz_tired> nope, localhost/EdubuntuQuickGuide
<jsgotangco> yelp renders html
<jsgotangco> a like to file will open up in yelp i think
<mhz_tired> jsgotangco: I am imagining, localhost = Welcome to Edubuntu!
<jsgotangco> but a link to http will open up the default browser
<mhz_tired> like DSL does it
<mhz_tired> you run DSL and get presented with a browser with all the info you need
<mhz_tired> to start up
<highvoltage> hi ribbo 
<ribbo> hi highvoltage 
<ribbo> so, much action here?
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> ribbo: sometimes, yes.
<pips1> highvoltage, hi!
<highvoltage> hi pips1 
<highvoltage> long time no see
<pips1> how is it going! yes!
<highvoltage> very busy down here, a lot of things going on, good and bad!
<pips1> I was very busy with my day job since december...
<pips1> I piled up a lot of overtime and now I get to compensate :-)
<highvoltage> :)
<pips1> Did you get the mail re edubuntu website from JaneW ?
<highvoltage> yes, i have
<highvoltage> mhz, hno73, etc. will work to make the moin part better
<pips1> Well, I wanted to really get going with the website ... :-)
<highvoltage> so that we'll eventually be able to do everything we wanted with drupal, but with moin (hopefully)
<pips1> ah
<highvoltage> i'm not quite sure how that will work yet, i'm a bit behind on that myseld
<pips1> i noticed that hno73 revamped the ubuntu site to use moin now :-)
<highvoltage> s/myseld/myself
<highvoltage> yep, the plone site broke into a "million tiny pieces" and they couldn't get it back up again :)
<pips1> moin/wikis are great for community contributions
<highvoltage> yep
<pips1> still, I thought that there will be the need for an "official" site with it's own set of needs
<pips1> hm
<highvoltage> seems not, hey :/
<highvoltage> how much of your original plans will be applicable to the moin site?
<highvoltage> can it be adjusted, and can we implement the most part of it and then find ways for the rest?
<highvoltage> or does it depend heavily on drupals taxonimy?
<pips1> well, I the meeting yesterday, I proposed to have a go at a drupal site (for the "official" stuff)
<pips1> JaneW proposed that we meet on monday and decide how to go forward exactly
<pips1> I intend to demo the drupal test site I'm currently building...
<highvoltage> not a bad idea, i considered this too
<pips1> then we'll vote if we need/use drupal or go moin completely...
<highvoltage> so far, i think you'll have 3 votes for drupal
<highvoltage> perhaps if that demo site is up, it will jump up quite drastically
<pips1> well, we'll see ;-)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> gtg, talk again l8r
<pips1> ok, if you get a spare minute, get in touch with me :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have a laptop here I'm about to install something on, but after that's done, does anyone think i should install edubuntu to test how it goes? i know ubuntu Breezy  runs perfectly, so i asume edu will work just as well
<pips1> Kamping_Kaiser, if you install on a laptop you might want to do the "workstation" install 
<Kamping_Kaiser> pips1: ok thanks. *checks the wiki to see what the difference is*
<pips1> If you want to test the current (unstable) Dapper version, please report your findings in the wiki here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu if you can :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> my iso is Breezy (my ISP don't mirror Ubuntu's unstalbe isos)
<pips1> btw, I am running unstable "flight3" on a test pc (amd64) and it's fine just now
<pips1> oh, I see
<Kamping_Kaiser> pips1: i have a desktop pc that someone installed edubuntu on (i have it because of flppy issues)
<Kamping_Kaiser> *floppy
<Kamping_Kaiser> I'm just wondering how a lappy would handle it
<pips1> ok
<pips1> depends on your model, I guess
<pips1> on my ibm thinkpad it runs rather well :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :) this is a compac armada
<pips1> maybe somebody already tested your model, have a look https://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/LaptopTestingTeam
<Kamping_Kaiser> I'm installing for interest sake, but thanks for the url
<pips1> sure :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<pips1> well, you might want to report your findings (hint hint) ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> <grin>
<Kamping_Kaiser> maybe :) I'm just giving livelamp the evil eye. when I'm finished doing that I'll try EdU
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://tangram.dnsalias.net:8008/gallery/LCA06-0129/p1280213 rofl
<ogra> JaneW, for your pleasance: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006434.html
<jsgotangco> birthday gift for ogra : http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html
<jsgotangco> it now builds
<JaneW> ogra: YAY
<ogra> jsgotangco, we should probably drop the moodle stuff ...
<ogra> we wont ship it ...
<JaneW> jsgotangco:  nice :)
<ogra> or rewrite it to: edubuntu recommends moodle for class management ...
<jsgotangco> dinner
* Kamping_Kaiser thinks it needs to be eaiser to find out what a "server" "workstation" and "default" instlal of EdU does :/ wonder if theres any on doc.ubuntu....
<ogra> workstation installs edubuntu-desktop on top of a normal ubuntu system ...
<ogra> server should be renamed to "minimal" 
<Kamping_Kaiser> so server is same as a normal ubuntu cd? (i agree about minimal)
<ogra> and default installs (and configures) edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok.
<Kamping_Kaiser> *does workstation install*
<lucasvo> what's the user password in the vmware virtual machine of ubuntu(cdimages.ubuntu.com/vmware)
<jsgotangco> ubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. Edu workstation is going nice on this laptop :O only problem so far is the modem, but I'll check that out later. :)
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i havent tested the daily build
<jsgotangco> x86 looks sane
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, dapper ? 
<jsgotangco> i still want to sulk over gnome-xchat though
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra: no, Breezy
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, i wont use it ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> i cant download dapper on my connection :\
<jsgotangco> ogra: i agree
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol jsgotangco
* jsgotangco wonders the rationale of this
<ogra> me neither today :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> probably integrated or something
<ogra> DSL broke ... i'm on ISDN ... 64k isnt really for syncing isos ...
<jsgotangco> im using it now but this is worse than using gaim for irc
<Kamping_Kaiser> wow
* jsgotangco using a daily build
<Kamping_Kaiser> that's bad
* Kamping_Kaiser is trying to use synaptic to add repos+dist-upgrade... it takes for ever!!
* Kamping_Kaiser struggles not to open a term
<jsgotangco> ogra: but ISDN is pretty expensive over there right?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but hey ... i had to upload a new ltsp today and need to attend two meetings ..
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> err kubuntu meeting?
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> lol, nope
<ogra> development status meeting ... and a ltsp meeting adterwards 
<ogra> *afterwards
<jsgotangco> hmm
* jsgotangco doesn't see an ltsp meeting
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> must be sudden
<ogra> debian/ubuntu ltsp teams meet in #ltsp 18:00 UTC ...
<ogra> its not a ubuntu meeting ... was initiated from the debian group
<jsgotangco> heh this sucks i live in a timezone where all the action is happening at dawn
<jsgotangco> ogra: that's nice...your work is paying off
<ogra> lets see :)
<ogra> they're not happy with some decisions and implementations ... its debian ...
<jsgotangco> do you know why xchat-gnome has become default?
<jsgotangco> ogra: why so? we're using muecow...
<ogra> they want no autoconfiguration but do everything manually ...
<jsgotangco> that's supposed to be ltsp-ng
<ogra> they use our package since quite some time ...
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> does mdz also maintain ltsp in debian?
<ogra> mdz doesnt maintin ltsp anymore
<ogra> thats my job
<jsgotangco> oh!
<ogra> he just looks over the code from time to time and complains if i did something wrong ...
<ogra> but http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/dapper/ is the upstream archive for muecow in debian/ubuntu currently ...
<jsgotangco> ogra: schools need bling! schools need compiz!
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> I'm SO annoyed by all the xgl stuff ...
<ogra> spams lists and channels for no good reason ... and wont be ready within the next 10 months ...
<ogra> xgl will be great if done though ... but it sidetracks everybody from getting dapper ready ...
<jsgotangco> right but let me enjoy this till next week since i'll be speaking in a trade show hehehe
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> at the moment, its really just wow factor
<jsgotangco> nothing useful
<ogra> it will hopefully replace xorg soon ... its far better by design ... but its not even dapper+1 stuff imho...
<vmarks> I remember when xorg was the best thing going.
<ogra> vmarks, doing all drawing by GL will give you a lot benefit even onn old hardware ...
<vmarks> oh yes.
<vmarks> that's for certain.
<vmarks> I was just reminiscing.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra: problem is people wont put effort into old hardware - and theats where it's needed
<Kamping_Kaiser> *that's 
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, they will ... i'll scream and shout if edubuntu cant support old hardware ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> good. *knows what thin clients on old hardware are like*
<vmarks> I find myself using old linux distributions or lighter weight window managers on old hardware.
<ogra> not really necessary if you use ltsp ...
<vmarks> although edubuntu seems to do remarkably well.
<ogra> 300Mhz and &$MB are fine for thin clients
<ogra> err 
<ogra> 64MB
<vmarks> well, yes. but ltsp isn't perfect: I'm still hurting on the non-pxe booting.
<vmarks> and 300mhz is a fast machine comparatively.
<ogra> i'll write a howto soon
<ogra> 300Mhz is PII class ...
<vmarks> yes it is.
<ogra> thats already quite old :)
<vmarks> some of us have p166 and 200mmx still.
<vmarks> :D
<ogra> 6 years ?
<ogra> 200mmx should be fine as well if you have the right amount of ram. ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> itshares boxes are only 200mhz+96mb RAM (or was 12 months ago, it's about a 300/400 average now)
<Kamping_Kaiser> so there's lots of 200s about
<mhz_back4hrs> ogra: hi
<mhz_back4hrs> ogra: any ideal specs for NIC's for the Edubuntu server?
<mhz_back4hrs> speed? brand?
<ogra> PXE capable NICS are helpful ...
<ogra> 100Mbit as well
<ogra> oh, the server ...
<jsgotangco> ive used a gigiabit NIC
<ogra> not really ... i know people that say you should take 3com in any case, but to be honest i never saw regressions with other brands ...
<jsgotangco> then connected to a gigabit switch
<jsgotangco> but a 100Mbit should actually work fine
<ogra> yeah, if you have a gbit switch its fine to use a gbit card 
<juliux> you can also use the cards who have 4 ports
<juliux> and than connect every client directly to the server
<ogra> that gets quite tricky ...
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> i thought you wanted to trunk the lineks together 
<mhz_back4hrs> so, bottom line ? :D
<ogra> *lines
<juliux> ogra, no 
<jsgotangco> mhz_back4hrs: 100Mbit should work fine
<jsgotangco> but 1GBit is recommended
<mhz_back4hrs> jsgotangco: ideal specs?
<mhz_back4hrs> okis
<jsgotangco> you should be generous to your server as much as possible
<mhz_back4hrs> processor? from 1.7 GB (AMD) ?
<juliux> ogra, the pci bus has more than 400MBit bandwidth, and so every client has 100MBit, but you can only connect 4 clients
<ogra> 100Mbit no specific brand at least ... ideally gbit for client and server and a T3 line to the internet ;P
<juliux> ogra, only T3 ?
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> ived used 64bit with good results
* juliux has here 100MBit internet connection
<ogra> nah, a direct Gbit uplink to the provider will do as well, juliux 
<juliux> ogra, the uni has only 622Mbit
<ogra> pfft ... lamers
<juliux> ogra, but with a flatrate
<ogra> heh, funny
<juliux> ogra, cost 1,5million + tax
<ogra> peanuts ...
<juliux> ogra, now you know why we have de.archives.ubuntu.com and ftp.de.debian.org here
<ogra> mhz_back4hrs, so just go with juliux recommendation and you wont run into problems :)
<mhz_back4hrs> hehe
<mhz_back4hrs> juliux rox!
<ogra> yes, he always has the cheap and easy solution for you :)
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> but at home i also have only a normal dsl connection
<ogra> oh, you get dsl in dresden ? 
<ogra> i thought that wasnt possible ...
<juliux> no in hamburg
<ogra> oh
<ogra> you moved ? 
<juliux> no there are my parents
<ogra> ah
<juliux> and that is for me home
<juliux> not dresden
<juliux> and in some parts of dresden you can get dsl
<juliux> but it is like a gamble
<ogra> yup, thats what i heard
<juliux> but you can get internet over wlan
<juliux> but it is very slow
<ogra> as for most parts of eastern germany  ... where telekom was clever enough to replace all copper lines with fiber
<juliux> yes but you can also do dsl over fiber
<ogra> they should offer you direct fiber access :)
<juliux> but the telekom dont want to do this
<juliux> hansenet do it over fiber in hamburg
<ogra> its more expensive ... you need two more modulators ...
<juliux> that could be but you get a normal kabel into your flat
<juliux> so you can use normal dsl hardware
<ogra> sure, but the provider has more costs ...
<juliux> yes but his own cables and not the cables from the telekom
<juliux> so you get more bandwidth
* mhz_back4hrs runs
<bob> could someone send me a working sources file for dapper? the updates are being well sketchy for me
<ogra> how did you upgrade ? 
<ogra> note that there is currently no clean way to upgrade the chroot, you need to rebuild it ...
<ogra> also dont use dapper in a production environment, its far from being stable ...
<bob> hmm ok
<bob> i just replaces all the breezys for dappers
<bob> *replaced
<ogra> thats fine for the server ...
<bob> hmm
<ogra> after that run sudo apt-get update  
<bob> yeah
<ogra> to make the system aware of the change 
<bob> its just full of missing stuff
<ogra> sure, as i said its pretty broken based on a daily base ...
<bob> haha ok
<bob> how can i rebuild the chroot? i really cant work out whats going wrong any more
<ogra> its in steady development :)
<ogra> sudo rm -f /opt/ltsp/i386 
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client
<bob> ta!
<bob> whats the -f flag for?
<ogra> force
<bob> ta
<ogra> else it wont delete directorys 
<bob> hmm doesnt work, shall i bung an R in too?
<ogra> whats the error ?
<bob> 'is a directory'
<ogra> oh, yes -rf is better then :)
<ogra> sorry 
<bob> :)
<bob> so the sources file is right with all the breezys made dapper, right?
<ogra> yup
<bob> cool
<bob> i can deal with dodgyness as long sa i know its meant to be dodgy...
<ogra> ok ...
<ogra> but this doggyness can also mean your network interfaces dont work and change names on every boot for example ... (a current problem )
<bob> ahhh
<bob> well not had much luck with brezy so i figured it was worth a shot :p
<bob> hang on
<bob> do i have to create seperate logins for clients?
<ogra> you cant use the same user on all clients ... (you can, but themes break for example, dapper has a fix for that, but its not commited yet)
<bob> hmm
<bob> wlel
<bob> it just booted ok, but its still not liking logins
<ogra> you rebuilt the chroot ? 
<bob> you mean i just cant log in to more than one machine at a time, right?
<bob> yeha
<ogra> you can log in as many times as you want ...
<bob> ok
<bob> so what do you mean by i cant use the same user on all clients?
<ogra> but not with the same user if you dont want your themes and wallpapers to break
<bob> ahh ok, differnt screen resses and stuff?
<ogra> nope, window frames and wallpapers on the destop etc ...
<bob> ahh ok
<bob> so you got any idea why logins arent working properly?
<mezzapazza> hi all
<mezzapazza> anyone with some knowledge on LTSP around here?
<ogra> bob, is your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts having the right IP of your server ?
<ogra> bob, if not, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<bob> yup, the only 2 ips there are the server address
<ogra> and actually the one that the thin clients are connected to i hope ...
<bob> nope :(
<bob> oh
<bob> soryr
* mezzapazza is trying to run KDE on LTSP client
<bob> you mean the ip of the sever the thins are connected to?
<ogra> bob, yes 
<bob> yeah
<ogra> ok, and sshd is running on the server ? 
<bob> yeah
<ogra> and *no* user can log in ? not even the one you created during install ? 
<ogra> i.e. the admin user 
<ogra> mezzapazza, on the *client* ?
<mezzapazza> ogra yep
<ogra> hmm, why ? 
<bob> ogra, yup, i just get login incorrect
<ogra> bob, where do you get that ? there is no such message in ldm (the login manager we use in ltsp)
<mezzapazza> ogra hmmm... i want to run linux in cyber cafe, and our users are accustomed to win
<mezzapazza> installed kubuntu-desktop metapackage
<ogra> mezzapazza, no i mean why do you want to install it in the client ? 
<bob> it says 'ltsp login', and i type the user and pass, and it just says 'Login incorrect'
<bob> it says 'ltsp login' too?
<ogra> you usually only use kernel and X on the client, the rest runs on the server 
<mezzapazza> ogra ah... i didn't installed... just built it..
<ogra> bob, do you have a gui at all on the client ? 
<mezzapazza> but i can't make client run KDE
<bob> nope
<mezzapazza> even .xinitrc doesn't help :(
<ogra> mezzapazza, if you use the ubuntu ltsp implementation, all desktop tasks run on the server ...
<ogra> mezzapazza,  sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
<ogra> will give you the option to select the system default 
<ogra> (which ldm will use then)
<ogra> bob, your thin client setup is broken ... you should have a gui login
<bob> ok
<bob> any ideas?
<bob> could it just be a shit video card?
<ogra> bob, wipe the chroot as i told you above and rebuild the ltsp-client ...
<ogra> sorry, i'm in a meeting in #ltsp now
<bob> i did...
<bob> hmm
<bob> ok
<bob> thanks for your help btw...
<mezzapazza> There is only 1 program which provides x-session-manager
<mezzapazza> (/usr/bin/gnome-session). Nothing to configure.
<mezzapazza> although i have KDM installed
<ogra> hmm, are you sure you installed kubuntu-desktop on the server ?
<mezzapazza> no, this is what i did:
<mezzapazza> ltsp-build-client  --root /var/ltsp/amd64/  --dist breezy --mirror http://hr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu --late-packages kubuntu-desktop 
<ogra> hmm, and your clients boot ?
<mezzapazza> yes
<ogra> late packages is reserved for the kernel package ...
<mezzapazza> hmm
<mezzapazza> it boots just fine untill i try to login in X
<bob> ogra, would i help if i rebuilt the client with --dist breezy as well?
<mezzapazza> well, installing kubuntu-desktop on the server now, will keep asking questions in a few hours
<mezzapazza> tnx for help ogra!
<ogra> i'll be available after the meeting ...
<bob> thats cool, no hurry :)
<C-O-L-T> hy there
<C-O-L-T> anybody there?
<mhz> ogra: ebuntu?
<ogra> mhz, yes :( very bad name choice
<ogra> but what should we do about that ? 
<mhz> kill'em all!
<ogra> heh+
* mhz loves e17
<mhz> well, all 17 y.o. girls :D
<ogra> me hates e17
<juliux> /me loves gnome
* juliux loves gnome
<juliux> and since yesterday it is very fast here
* signifer123 loves gnome too
* mhz loves e17 + wmaker + fluxbox
* ogra loves WMs that stick to standards ...
<ogra> e17 is clearly not among these
<ogra> as their devs declare
<mhz> ohhh
<ogra> there are some statements from rasterman ... "we give a shit on freedesktop ... etc"
<mhz> ogra: last week I had the chance to read 'xfce developers' do not use freedesktop standards regarding icons naming
<mhz> and did not want to
<mhz> fortunately, Daniele Favara, aka nomed in dsslive project, convinced them to follow the standards
<ogra> but they stick to most other standards from freedesktop ...
<ogra> disagreement is fine ... but refusing collaboration as a whole and reinvent the wheel (even if its shiny) is bad
<mhz> ogra: oh, then I agree with you again! :(
<signifer123> so is edubuntu switching to another desktop?
<ogra> nope
<signifer123> :-p
<signifer123> good...
<bob> hey ogra, you have any thgouhts on why my clients arent booting? shall i rebuild the ltsp client again with some different options?
<mhz> bob: not booting? or not logging in?
<ogra> bob, what hardware specs have these clients ? 
<ogra> i suspect you have to less mem to start an X server or a weird graphics card ...
<ogra> mhz, the x server doesnt start
<mhz> ogra: ok, so they boot, the server has X running BUt the clients ?
<ogra> yes, the clients only start in console mode  
<ogra> i guess they are not >64MB or have a graphics card we dont know about (i suspect the first)
<mhz> yah, me too
<ogra> (since i cant imagine a unsupported graphics card for our xorg server)
<mhz> hehhe
<mhz> unles it is from other planet
<mhz> are the clients x86 or ppc?
<mhz> or arm?
<ogra> no idea, but i suspect x86
<ogra> bob ?
<mhz> maybe he uses xfce and the mouse ate his tongue
<mhz> ;p
<ogra> thats a xfce feature ? 
<mhz> lol
* ogra makes note not to use xfce :)
<mhz> ogra: yes, silent mode
<mhz> ohhh, silent fingers
<bob> whoops., worry
<bob> sorry
<bob> i dont really know the hardware specs. what was the command again, lspci?
<ogra> free 
<bob> pretty rubbish i reckon
<ogra> to get the amount of memory 
<ogra> cat /proc/cpuinfo
<bob> k ill just boot it
<ogra> to get CPU stats
<ogra> you need to set a root password in the chroot to be able to log in 
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<bob> k
<mhz> oooh, chrooting
<ogra> use root and this password to log in on the client
<ogra> (note the first password thats requested is for sudo ... the second one is for the chroot)
<bob> oih hang on somehting odd is happening, gonan reboot.
<bob> hmm that passwd command just gives an error
<bob> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> yes 
<ogra> it first asks for your user password ...
<ogra> then offers you to set a root password in the chroot 
<bob> yeah it just says no such command
<bob> 'canot run comamnd 'passwd': no such file or directory
<ogra> can you give the exact errormessage ? 
<bob> ahh hang on, i might have tried to reinstall the client again earlier and it messed up, i thgouht it hadnt done anything, but...
<bob> ill rebuild again
<bob> shall i use any parameters for the rebuild?
<ogra> hmm, be really carfull... if you broek it during build it might mees up the server
<ogra> you dont need parameters ...
<bob> ok
<bob> what was the command again?
<ogra> but if /proc is mounted inside the chroot it will break your server ... if you cant unmount /proc there you cant fix it ...
<ogra> and if there is no shell in the chroot, you cant chroot to unmount /proc there ... its a chicken egg problem
<bob> i think i tried to delete it when it was still kind of doing something, and there was still 2 files tied up
<ogra> ouch
<bob> problem?
<bob> you think i just need a reinstall?
<ogra> thats likely a problem that i cant solve ...
<bob> hmm
<bob> anything thats wortha  try?
<ogra> if its meesed up anyway you will need to reinstall ... but in that case it wont break more if you try rebuilding the chroot :)
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client 
<ogra> no options 
<ogra> and wipe /opt/ltsp/i386 first
<bob> k
<ogra> s/wipe/remove/
<bob> ahh its already going, i did rm -fr /opt/ltsp/i386 thoguh?
<bob> it sounds like its probably the graphics card thats the issue though
<ogra> unlikely  ... i cant imagine a graphics card our xserver doesnt know ....
<ogra> i rather suspect the clients have less than 64MB ...
<bob> ram? ok
<ogra> yes, ram
<bob> is that the minimum?
<ogra> yes 
<bob> k
<bob> itd be sueful to ahve all the absolute min specs on the wiki :)
<bob> unless they already are 
<ogra> they arent and i cant really tell them for breezy ...
<bob> ah ok
<ogra> i'll release them for dapper since there i did measuring ...
<bob> cool :)
<ogra> but dapper will for example support network swap, so the ram can be less ...
<ogra> (thats the feature i'm currently working on)
<bob> wow
<bob> what is your general ubuntu type job then? :)
<ogra> hacking on ltsp, caring for the screensaver and maintaining edubuntu 
<bob> cool
<bob> ok its done, shall i try that passwd thing again?
<ogra> additionally with some standard ubuntu stuff like random bugfixing etc 
<ogra> its done ??
<bob> ah good stuff. how many people are there working on it?
<ogra> you must have a fast connection then ....
<bob> 8meg on a good day...
<ogra> about 10 full employed for the whole distro ...
<ogra> one is completely working on kubuntu as i am on edubuntu 
<ogra> so that leaves 8 for ubuntu :)
<bob> how do you get funding? can you aplpy for grants and stuff?
<ogra> i'm paied by canonical Ltd
<bob> ok the password has set ok...
<ogra> ok, now find out how much ram you have ...
<ogra> use the "free" command after login 
<bob> ah ok, cool, free software is amasing and the fact people can get paid to do it rules...
<bob> 123meg it says
<ogra> thats plenaty 
<ogra> *plenty
<ogra> cat /proc/cpuinfo 
<ogra> lets see what kind of cpu you have 
<bob> amd-k6 3d processor
<bob> 501mhz
<ogra> wow, thats a good thin client 
<ogra> ok, now lspci and look for the VGA device
<bob> its one of the better boxes
<bob> ati mach 64
<bob> gx
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> that should be detected 
<bob> it comes up with the proper boot loader now and it didnt before
<ogra> gui ?
<bob> nah
<ogra> less /etc/X11/xorg.conf and look for the Driver section 
<ogra> there should be ati or radeon in it 
<bob> hmm theres a device section but no driver section?
<bob> and a section called DRI
<ogra> ah, sorry 
<ogra> i meant Driver
<ogra> Section "Device"
<ogra>         Identifier      "ATI Technologies, Inc. M11 NV [FireGL Mobility T2e] "
<ogra>         Driver          "ati"
<ogra>         BusID           "PCI:0:16:0"
<ogra>         Option          "UseFBDev"              "true"
<ogra> EndSection
<ogra> something like that ...
<bob> yup
<bob> got it
<ogra> what does it say ?
<ogra> (the driver line)
<bob> driver, "ati", busid "pci:0:9:0" 
<ogra> sounds ok
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> try running startx and see if there is an error 
<bob> just at the fatal server error: no screens found...
<bob> whoops
<bob> ignore the just at the
<ogra> hmm 
<bob> you want the rest?
<ogra> nope 
<ogra> thats evil enough :)
<bob> something about an error unlocking an authority file too
<ogra> what kind of monitors do the clients have ? 
<bob> umm
<bob> quite old
<bob> shall i try a differnt monitor?
<ogra> yup
<bob> k
<ogra> i need to change from isdn to dsl, brb
<bob> k
<bob> wow this is special
<bob> i changed the moniutor
<bob> ran xserver, and it seemed to freeze up
<bob> so i rebooted and now im geting 'kernel panic - not syncing'
<ogra> try another boot ...
<ogra> that looks like a network issue 
<bob> k
<bob> there is a rogue dhcp server i cant turn off
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> thats a problem 
<bob> rubbish router control panel
<bob> ah gottit this time
<bob> normally the srever wins the dhcp race... wow geek olympics/
<bob> hmm it keeps doing it, its well eird this has just started
<ogra> its intresting that you could boot at all 
<ogra> normally it breaks heavily with a second dhcp server
<bob> you think that is most likely my problem?
<ogra> with booting, yes 
<bob> (or one of the many)
<ogra> not the one with the X server 
<bob> its really not liking it al all now
<bob> hmm
<bob> is there any way i can set the clients to only accept dhcp off the server or anything?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you cant predict which dhcp server answers first ...
<ogra> and you can force it only with a highly complicated setup if you run one of them on a different port ...
<bob> arg
<ogra> but that would take the whole night to get running 
<bob> haha
<bob> hmm
<bob> what a pain
<bob> ok ill disconenct t'internet temporarly
<bob> brb
<bob> something fishy is going on
<bob> crc error: ssytem halted?
<ogra> huh ?
<bob> on boot
<bob> something really really odd is going on with this router
<bob> arg, sorry about this
<bob> its so weird its only just started being an issue
<bob> crc error: system halted, this is probably still a network problem yes?
<ogra> no idea ... sounds rather like a BIOS problem 
<ogra> or like it tries to boot from a non existent HD 
<bob> ook ill have a poke
<bob> whod have thoguht changing a monitor could cause so much problem...
<mhz> ogra: ever used xmaxima ?
<ogra> whats that ? 
<mhz> it's a mix of math apps
<mhz> octave is one of them
<mhz> but the gui... sucks so badly that I don't even dare to inculde it as a default edu apps
<mhz> I mean, the app is excellent, but its windows... too terrible
<bob> ahhh ok. i was plugging it into the main box for power, plugged the monitor in seperately and its fine. psu must be on its last legs
<ogra> mhz, what makes you think about including windows apps ? 
<mhz> ogra: I mean windows as in "the windows you use for your linux apps"
<mhz> with the x button at the corner
<ogra> heh
<mhz> oh, you were kidding??!!
<mhz> I see
<ogra> :)
<mhz> your back is so much better
<mhz> OR
<mhz> you have no mdz pressure
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> OR
<mhz> your girlfriend is turning into a geek too
<mhz> (that would be nice)
<ogra> in fact i'm spending the last 10 mins of my birthday, having a glass of merlot and syncing the live isos for testing 
<mhz> (but usually means she is not that pretty) :D
<ogra> and my DSL is back ....
<mhz> ogra: ooh, Happy day of Birth!
<ogra> thanks :)
<bob> its your birthday??
<bob> happy birthday!
<mhz> to you ...
<ogra> thanks as well bob :)
<bob> you should probabyl get off the internet and do something in the real world :)
<ogra> it nearly *was* ...
<mhz> ogra: I can get you a nice bottle of wine if Mark lets you come here by the end of april
<mhz> thers's lot of fine viriety to choose from here
<ogra> mhz, lets see ... its very tight with the ubuntu conference ... 
<mhz> nah
<ogra> nah ? 
<mhz> Jeff Waugh has already agreed to come, So has Daniele Favara
<mhz> ogra: not that tight
<mhz> LA tour could easily take 10 days to do 4-5 countries
<ogra> really ? jdub agreed ? 
<mhz> plus... with a nice bottle of chilean wine you would definately feel more loose
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i'd *love* to come ...
<mhz> just come
<mhz> :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> lets see what mark says ... :)
<mhz> he'llprobably say yeah, "I'll support from here"
<mhz> :)
<ogra> its two weeks ago that i talked to him ... he didnt mention anything ... when did you mail him ? 
<mhz> ogra: but I can't even express how important it is for some LA countries the tour takes place. There's really lots of reasons
<bob> right, im not gna bother you any more on your birthday :p have a good one ogra, thanks for your help (yet again...) :)
<mhz> ogra: I have emailed him at least 5 mails from 2 weeks ago until monday or tuesday
<ogra> bob my bday is over in 4 minutes ... dont worry 
<ogra> bah 
<mhz> ogra: and JaneW has been CC'ed every email I sent to Mark
<ogra> mhz, i'll talk to him once he's back 
<mhz> please
<mhz_cook> ogra: thx
<ogra> :)
<mhz_cook> ogra: and about higher end-users (university opnes or science highschool), xmaxima is the fines reference in linux
<mhz_cook> it is just its front end or gui that looks crappy for 2006 users
<mhz_cook> very much like default emacs
<mhz_cook> maybe worst
<ogra> shudder
<mhz_cook> shudder?
#edubuntu 2006-02-22
<mhz_cook> arkan0x: hey
<arkan0x> mhz_cook, hi !
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. has anyone else come accross this? install edubuntu -> open synaptic -> click "remove" on cdrom -> click "add" -> ok on next option (main+restricted only) -> edit it. it now is "sections: universe main restricted"
<Kamping_Kaiser> I've had this happen on 2 boxes
<ogra> whats the "edit it" part about ... what did you edit ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra: you select a repository line to edit, then click edit, and the "edit repository" box that pops up has universe in the "sections" line
<Kamping_Kaiser> security updates did the same thing, but updates didnt
<ogra> thats dapper ? 
<ogra> if so, file a bug on synaptic
<Kamping_Kaiser> um. Breezy i think
<ogra> you might file a bug there as well if it doesnt exist yet ... but i doubt it will get fixed in breezy ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. 
<mhz> ogra: could you give me the short version or tell me if it is spectacular? http://ooowiki.de/Writer2MoinMoin
<ogra> it creates moin source from writer docs 
<ogra> its a macro 
<mhz> yeah, that I know
<ogra> and it can only handle pngs 
<mhz> but does it mention like "look here" or "excelent output"
<mhz> or 99% effectivenes
<ogra> nope 
<ogra> it just explains the basic usage
<ogra> the four points in the second paragraph explain what doesnt work 
<mhz> okis
<mhz> ogra: thx
<ogra> np
<sithi> mr. ogra please help me
<sithi> can some body help me please
<mhz> sithi: shoot your problem and we'll see
<mhz> sithi: ?
<sithi> i have ubuntu 5.10  with ltsp
<mhz> ok
<sithi> the thin client (diskless) is booting well
<mhz> ok
<sithi> i had assined the static ip to the client
<sithi> i could very this at the time of booting also
<sithi> but once i logged in to the gnome, for ifconfig command
<sithi> it is giving me the server's ip address
<sithi> where did i done the mistake
<mhz> sithi: The only LTSP I have ever used is Edubuntu's. That means your LTSP config is not similar at all to my ltsp config because we used a very diff approach and structure
<mhz> sithi: my only advice, and I am very sorry, is you visit #ltsp. They will help lot better than me
<sithi> ok, thanks
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> sithi: ogra is sleeping now and I know he has tried normal LTSP before
* ulinskie is away: 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<punkass> hello all, just curious of the status of multimedia on the client machine with ltsp
<tamoio> hello all
* jsgotangco huts for an ltsp client
<jsgotangco> ogra: after install it should be runnig already right (the server)
<ogra> nope ...
<ogra> see the install notes ;)
<jsgotangco> gyahhh
<ogra> especially the LTSPServerSetup
<jsgotangco> we're sticking with this setup?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> for dapper at least 
<ogra> for dapper+1 we'll have a gui for ltsp :)
<ogra> people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<jsgotangco> there's no /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> oh ?
<jsgotangco> it didnt install dhcp3-server or any dhcp client it seems
<jsgotangco> i mean server
<ogra> ouch
<ogra> sure you did a default install ?
<jsgotangco> yup
<jsgotangco> it did a chroot
<ogra> hmpf
<ogra> that might be caused by the oversizedness ...
<ogra> +damned 
<jsgotangco> ltsp-server is installed
<jsgotangco> ok i'll install dhcp3 and see
<ogra> look for ltsp-server-standalone 
<ogra> thats should be there as well 
<jsgotangco> its not installed
<ogra> (and depends on dhcpd)
<ogra> aha
<jsgotangco> ltsp-server is though
<jsgotangco> should i install it instead?
<ogra> nope, i'll have to fix the CD ...
<jsgotangco> ok at least you now
* jsgotangco stops test for now
<ogra> which is kind of tricky since i cant reach the datacenter 
<jsgotangco> s/now/know
<ogra> yay, my connection is back they fixed frankfurt :)
<jsgotangco> ok i guess we're cool now, i'm going to focus on the quickguide then
<ogra> yup, thanks for all the help 
<jsgotangco> ogra: can you change the icons of ubuntu to edubuntu ? (not now)
<jsgotangco> and System -> About Ubuntu to About Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ?
<ogra> i dont understand the first question ... which icons ? 
<jsgotangco> menu bar uses ubuntu icon
<ogra> not really an issue ... but if i have time left before art freeze i'll think about it ...
<ogra> i'm not sure thats prepared to get exchanged by a foreign package ... might need heavy tweaking
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> how about ubuntu-docs?
<ogra> what shall i do with it ?
<jsgotangco> replace with ours when its ready?
<jsgotangco> but that might be asking too much
<ogra> when its ready, yes 
<MotherLUG> Evening All :D
<jsgotangco> hi
<ogra> would also save plenty of space
<ogra> but we dont have edubuntu-docs yet 
<ogra> hmm... amd64 is oversized by 13MB 
<ogra> thats hard to free up without dropping something essential 
<ogra> hmm ... i wonder how much harm it does to drop tuxpaint-stamps for amd64 for now ...
<ogra> its 15MB on the CD
<jsgotangco> the bitmaps?
<ogra> tuxpaint-stamps-defaults ... no idea if this are bitmaps ...
<MotherLUG> ogra, not the tux-paint stamps they are fabulous
<jsgotangco> its probably the pictures of birds
<jsgotangco> ogra: i'm pretty worried about the quickguide in our svn, it has images...
<ogra> but likely ... by the size of it 
<ogra> MotherLUG, i need to free up 13MB on the amd64 CD to make it installable ... give me a guess what else to remove
<ogra> removing the stamps would also remove tuxpaint ... its a hard dependency ...
<jsgotangco> xaos is pretty small...
<jsgotangco> it'll be strange to remove gimp
<jsgotangco> and yet have gnu paint
<ogra> nah 
<ogra> nothing is as big
<jsgotangco> not to mention it'll trash the whole desktop
<jsgotangco> kdeedu
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> libgl1-mesa-dri has exactly 13MB 
<ogra> sad that its essential 
<jsgotangco> how about the bluetooth stuff
<jsgotangco> lol pretty small
<ogra> in case you want to look yourself:
<Yagisan> ogra: how many kernels are on the cd ?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/cd-build-logs/edubuntu-daily-20060217.1.log
<ogra> 1
<Yagisan> well, scratch that idea
<MotherLUG> ogra, sorry was doing an interview
<Yagisan> ogra: do we need gcc ?
<ogra> Yagisan, how big ?
<MotherLUG> ogra, my first pick to remove would be turtle
<Yagisan> ogra: haven't really checked yet. just briefly scanning the list while trying to brush my kids teeth
<ogra> err, sure we need gcc for people that need to compile modem drivers for example
<ogra> MotherLUG, that wont gain us 13MB :)
<Yagisan> ogra: um - edubuntu - should work out-of-the-box right ?
<ogra> probably 130k :)
<MotherLUG> ogra, yeah I know, I don't know much about the back end stuff
<ogra> Yagisan, we ship modem driver sources for winmodems
<Yagisan> oh
* Yagisan has a *real* modem
<Yagisan> brb
<MotherLUG> I have to pull down the latest version again, anf get onto the bug reporting. Heaps of things were crashing on me last week
<ogra> yeah, last weeks isos were quite broken, i havent cared for the CDs for a while 
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> evolution :)
<jsgotangco> eekkkk
<jsgotangco> edubuntu-desktop
* jsgotangco bad thinking
<Yagisan> OOo - still not native ?
<ogra> nop
<ogra> i removed tuxpaint ....
<ogra> (note thats only amd64)
<Yagisan> that sucks. we could dump ia32libs* if it was
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but upstream doesnt move forward it seems ...
<Yagisan> :(
<ogra> and doko is to overloaded with gcc and all of python 
<Yagisan> I still can't copy and paste between OOo and native apps
<ogra> yup
* Yagisan is happy. I (finally) got a usb stick today - 1GB
<Yagisan> ogra: what was the last thing added before amd64 went oversize ?
<ogra> nothing
<ogra> the packages grew 
<MotherLUG> ogra, can I still pull tux-paint from the repositories?
<ogra> MotherLUG, sure 
<ogra> its just not installed by default on amd64 installs ...
<MotherLUG> ogra, wonderful, I must say my lids and I love it, and I have 64
<MotherLUG> lids= kids
<ogra> i'll do my best to re-add it ... but currently its the best option to unbreak flight4 
<MotherLUG> as long as I can still pull it and it works, I'm happy
<jsgotangco> ogra: let's pull out tuxpaint for now
<ogra> i'd rather have it on the CD and wil look for realease which other options we have ...
* ogra tries to calm down over Ebuntu .... grr
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> we need more bling!
<ogra> but not with our name ... i'm fine with a e17 distro ...
<ogra> but they should grab a name that doesnt clash
<jsgotangco> true
<ogra> it nearly makes me forget the CoC ...
<jsgotangco> what the hell
<jsgotangco> The [WWW]  Documentation Team is organising documentation for Ebuntu, and for more please contact [WWW]  Manish Chakravarty
<ogra> argh !!!
<Yagisan> isn't "Ebuntu" a checkinstall job
<jsgotangco> GRRRRRR
<Yagisan> ?
<ogra> likely ...
<jsgotangco> it is
<jsgotangco> ogra: he's in the gnome lp team
<Yagisan> excellent - so it only runs on i386 - can't be maintained properly - most likely breaks /usr/local - and has a bad name choice. Marvelous.
<jsgotangco> im going to dinner first
<Seveas> ogra, the original name was even worse: Enubuntu
* Yagisan preps flamethrower, and hand to ogra.
<jsgotangco> im going think about this first
* Yagisan wispers in an evil little voice - "Ignore the CoC - you know you want to >:) "
<Yagisan> ;)
<ogra> heh
<MotherLUG> Good Night All :D
<pips1> highvoltage, hi
<highvoltage> hi pips1 
<pips1> I am making some progress with the demo site... :-)
<highvoltage> kewl. is it somewhere accessable yet?
<pips1> I'll send you an email ... I'd rather not have everybody pound on the test site yet :-)
* pips1 launches thunderbird
<highvoltage> pips1: thanks, sorry, bit distracted here
<pips1> highvoltage, no prob
<pips1> ogra, hi
<pips1> ogra, here on irc, you often are asked questions... what is the one piece of documentation that you need to point out the most often ? is it e.g. the thinClientHowto ?
<ogra> nope
<pips1> ?
<ogra> i dont point the thin client howto here at all
<pips1> ah
<ogra> since it doesnt apply to edubuntu
<ogra> see topic :)
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> the install notes are the most important doc 
<pips1> ok, I see, thanks
<ogra> second most is yagisans etherboot/PXE floppy creation doc
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ebuntu
<ogra> err
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<ogra> that one
<pips1> cheers!
* pips1 is wondering why there is a thinClientHowto in the wiki if it doesn't apply to edubuntu...
<pips1> never mind
<ogra> pips1, because apart from editing the dhcpd.conf everything is done by the installer in edubuntu
<ogra> the howto is for ubuntu ...
<ogra> where you have to do all these steps manually
<pips1> ok, makes sense now
<pips1> that howto is definitely geared towards experienced sysadmins, I'd say, judging from the amount of acronyms and geek slang :-)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> sadly ...
<ogra> it was a very easy document even my mother would have understood when mdz created it+
<ogra> but it has grown several monster heads :(
<pips1> hehe
<vhgd> hello. i have a question. how do i change the screen resolution of the ltsp login screen. one of my thin client monitor crashed because the resolution (1600x1200) was to high.
* jsgotangco just started drafting release notes
<ogra> jsgotangco, will still take a while ... i just discovered a bug that makes a rebuild for ubuntu and all drivatives necessary
<ogra> with new testing accordingly 
<ogra> seems Kamion made a tapo or something in the cd build script
<ogra> *typo
<jsgotangco> argghh
<jsgotangco> that's why its taking so long???
<ogra> at least for me currently rsync doesnt work either, so i cant get the new builds
<ogra> but its related to ltsp-server-standalone being not installed and /etc/ltsp missing
<ogra> so in fact you discovered it first :)
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> i'll just do the drafts then
<jsgotangco> i;ve yet to update for ubuntu itself too
<jsgotangco> but i'll make the most obvious changes
<jsgotangco> its already 2:30am anyways
<jsgotangco> good night
<ogra> night
<chms> is ltsp (and related things - dhcp, tftp etc) installed with the server install of edubuntu?
<ogra> nope
<chms> rats :) thanks
<ogra> you need a desktop on the server to use the ssh tunnel ... else it wont make sense
<ogra> so the edubuntu default install is what you want ...
<ogra> the so called server install is in fact a minimal install ...
<ogra> see the install notes from the topic
<chms> I am learning that. I had an email tetate over that issue :)
<chms> ok
<chms> I use ltsp, and thought it would save a step
<ogra> note that we use the new muecow implementation of ltsp ... it doesnt use xdmcp forwarding anymore ... 
<chms> I'll look into that. I use it, I wouldnt say I was an 'expert'. Thanks
<chms> do you find using a 'heavy' GUI like KDE with ltsp causes performance issues? (I'm looking at Xfce for that reason)
<ogra> nope, it only eats memory on the server ... no performance issues
<chms> good to know. perhaps I wont need Xfce then.
<bob_> hey again ogra...
<bob_> i got a new monitor in, its kinda booting and im getting 'screens found, but none have a usable configuation. driver can't support depth 24'
<ogra> ah ...
<bob_> and 'xauth: error in unlocking authority file /root/.Xauthority'
<ogra> then you *need* dapper ... breezy doesnt support setting 16bit in ltsp
<bob_> it is dapper...
<ogra> create a /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf file 
<ogra> add the following line:
<bob_> is there any way to view all the messages you got at startup? there was another kinda error i thought might be itneresting but i cant remebre the detials and it goes past prety quick
<ogra> [default]   X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<ogra> that should set the clients to 16bit by default 
<bob_> k
<bob_> right it kinda goes 'trying to load pxelinux' and tries a whole bunch before going to default
<bob_> is that ok?
<ogra> looks like a triangle on the screen ? 
<bob_> yeah
<ogra> thats the normal PXE protocol 
<bob_> ok, cool
<ogra> i just found a heavy bug in ltsp ... that might be your problem ...
<bob_> oh yeah? 8)
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-February/006513.html
<ogra> that prevented ldm from being installed ... without ldm X wont start ...
<bob_> ahh ok....
<bob_> is that coz i installed from a CD? seems like it shouldnt matter...
<ogra> you can startx manually ... but you dont have a login manager
<ogra> if there is any package available that provides x-display-manager, it breaks :)
<bob_> haha ok!
<ogra> gdm or kdm or wdm ...
<bob_> damn that x-display-manager
<ogra> heh, yes ...
<ogra> debian added it ..
<bob_> anything i can do about it?
<ogra> and i missed to see that it would break when i merged their patches
<bob_> good to know its notjust me being stupid ;)
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install ldm
<ogra> if that works ... you have a working client ...
<bob_> :D yay!
<ogra> but with a lot of unused gnome stuff in it :)
<bob_> 'already the newest version'
<bob_> boo
<ogra> oh, so that was pulled in already ... lucky you :)
<bob_> so its just thsi rouge dhcp server thats the problem now then
<bob_> arghhhh
<ogra> just try the lts.conf 
<ogra> nope, its your graphics card that only supports 16bit ...
<bob_> its funny, sometimes i get a kernel panic and sometimes it just frezes at 'loading hardware drivers'
<bob_> no i mean that is still an issue...
<bob_> is there any way to flush the dhcp and ltsp server cache? i think turning this computer off and on repeatedly is confusing it
<ogra> nope
<ogra> no need to 
<bob_> ok
<ogra> the cache is bound to the hardware address of your card ... you should get always the same ip for the client
<bob_> ah ok
<bob_> is there any other reason it'd stop at 'loading hardware drivers'?
<ogra> you can remove the word splash from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default then you see more ...
<ogra> it will omit the bootsplash 
<bob_> ok
<bob_> its still having problems even when i disconnect the othre dhcp server
<mezzapazza> is there some documentation on setting up ltspfs on ubuntu?
<ogra> nope, use the one from ltsp.org 
<mezzapazza> if i only knew what reffered redhat init scripts usually do :)
<ogra> ltspfs and ltspfsd are packaged, but you will need to set up the scripts from ltsp.org manually ...
<mezzapazza> what about dapper init scripts? 
<ogra> ?
<ogra> for ltspfs ?
<mezzapazza> yep
<bob_> argh, 'depth 16 is not supported through this adapter'
<ogra> thats evil ... but it doesnt support 24 either ? 
<mezzapazza> i found it packaged in dapper, so i thought there are scripts i could check too
<bob_> its a prety good monitor
<bob_> what was the command to check?
<bob_> what the monitor can do i mean
<ogra> mezzapazza, sorry, no... i packaged it because we wanted to investigate it for inclusion, but all the local device support was deferred to dapper+1, so there is no integration work been done
<mezzapazza> ogra ok tnx
<ogra> mezzapazza, be sure it will be my main target in dapper+1 together with a real good sound implementation based on gstreamer ...
<mezzapazza> ogra looking forward... i'm in a hurry, so i'll have to figure it out myself..
<mezzapazza> BTW vim/nvi was missing in dapper release i downloaded last week
<ogra> it should work as outlined on the ltsp.org wiki ... but you'll need to add it to the startup scripts yourself, sorry
<ogra> amd64 ? 
<mezzapazza> yes
<ogra> yup, might be, the CD was oversized for some days ... 
<ogra> should be fixed since today
<ogra> bob_, its not the monitor ... its the graphics card that cant do 16bit ...
<ogra> must be a very old model  ....
<ogra> try if it works if you set the value from 16 to 8
<ogra> didnt you say mach64 or something ? thats one of the oldest atis around ...
<bob_> ah ok
<bob_> yeah
<bob_> ok
<bob_> be surprised if it only supports 8 bit though?
<ogra> yes, a bit ...
<ogra> it should be able to do 16 ... 
<ogra> but the error message indicates differently
<bob_> k
<ogra> k ?
<bob_> ok, sorry :)
<ogra> nah, i meant k like in its ok, i see X ?
<bob___> whoops lost connection, have you got ay idea why im still getting problems even with the other dhcp server unplugged? might i just need a better network switch?
<ogra> bob___, not yet ...
<ogra> might be a dapper bug 
<bob___> k
<ogra> i'm currently preparing flight 4 and discover a lot of weird things that didnt show up yet
<bob___> is there anything i can do with regard to bug reports?
<mezzapazza> what would be redhat's rc.localdev on debian?
<ogra> bob___, file them :) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+bugs assign them to me and the ltsp package ...
<ogra> mezzapazza, for the client side i'd just add it to the ltsp-client initscript ...
<bob___> ok :) i dont always know whats gone wrong though :)
<bob___> i guess i can just describe...
<bob___> i mean, i dont know if its me or a bug...
<bob___> wow, i have a black x...
<ogra> yes, just describe is a good start 
<ogra> :)
<bob___> a black x and nothing else. i guess this is a start?
<ogra> bob___, my job as developer is to ask you the right questions in the bug to find out whats wrong and if it is a bug :)
<ogra> doesnt look like ldm is working, weird
<bob___> haha thats good, glad i can be of some help :p
<bob___> any ideas? anything i can try rebulding, or something?
<ogra> would be an option ..
<ogra> +just dont forget to create the lts.conf
<ogra> (or make a backup you can copy in place later)
<bob___> whats the command?
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client
<bob___> hmm ive done that one
<bob___> anything else it could be?
<ogra> you need to wipe the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir first
<bob___> ive done that a couple of times already tho
<bob___> hmmm
<bob___> no way its gonna get corrupted really is there?
#edubuntu 2006-02-23
<Burgwork> ogra, http://littlewizard.sourceforge.net/ <- have you heard of this? (seems to c or c++ gtk)
<ogra> Burgwork, sweet
<Burgwork> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/02/msg00578.html
<Burgwork> already itp'ed
<paolob_> Hi guys. I have ubuntu installed. What packages I must install to have edubuntu? thank you1
<ogra> paolob_, do you want the edubuntu classrom server or only a edubuntu desktop ?
<paolob_> desktop
<ogra> then install edubuntu-desktop :)
<paolob_> ogra, thank you
<paolob_> ogra, what about the content filtering, will it be ready for dapper?
<ogra> nope
<paolob_> ogra, I can't install edubuntu-desktop, it installs too many packages. What are the edubuntu specific ones?
<paolob_> ogra (content filtering) :-( is there any problem?
<ogra> yes, for the existing implementations you have to provide regulary updated of black and whitelists ...
<ogra> and you have to tweak the packages ...
<ogra> since thats no option i looked into different solutions ... 
<paolob_> will be there a solution with dapper?
<ogra> i plan to include the willow conten filter for dapper+1 it works like a spam filter and teaches itself which content is evil
<ogra> in dapper there is the one that was in hoary, breezy and warty already ... squidguard and squid ... 
<paolob_> ogra, but in the meanwhile what can I do in order to have content filtering? squidguard?
<ogra> but it has a high maintenance level ... which williw avoids ...
<ogra> *willow
<ogra> http://www.digitallumber.com/software/willow/
<paolob_> ok, now, what package install me the ltsp server in order to get a edubuntu from ubuntu?
<ogra> see the ThinClientHowto on the ubuntu wiki
<Burgwork> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/?p=129 <-- talks about willow and edubuntu
<ogra> Burgwork, yes, he's a everyday guest in this channel, you met him at UBZ
<ogra> Burgwork, actually he's here :)
<Burgwork> hmm, don't remember him (too many new people)
<ogra> short curly hair ... hung around with Treenaks ...
<Burgwork> ok, rings bells
<ogra> from nl
<ogra> i'm really sad i didnt have the time for willow this release ...
<ogra> its the coolest content filter i've seen so far
<Burgwork> does it do any whitelist/blacklist?
<Burgwork> one very cool feature is a whitelist, for a fixed function machine
<Burgwork> ie, you can only go to one website
<ogra> it does white/blacklist if you want to use it ... but the coolest feature is bayesian filtering ...
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> it even does pam based user access control if you want 
<paolob_> ogra, excuse me, I can't find the information about the ltsp server edubuntu packets to install...
<ogra> its the ThinClientHowto
<ogra> on the wiki
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<paolob_> ogra, ok
<paolob_> ogra, I'm doing what wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto says, but I see that I haven't the i385 dir in /opt/ltsp/  What am I missing?
<ogra> phew 
<signifer123> bah...
<lucasvo> ogra: ping
<TOZTWO> Will edubuntu use GNOME 2.14?
<lucasvo> TOZTWO: it uses whatever ubuntu uses
<lucasvo> atm on dapper I have 2.14
<lucasvo> eh I mean 2.13
<TOZTWO> 2.14 will be released in late March.
<TOZTWO> I was wondering if it was planned for inclusion.
<TOZTWO> It has some "Groups" settings.
<TOZTWO> You can lock down the UI for inexperienced users, and allow hackers full freedoms and abilities.
* TOZII wonders if perhaps a wireless(wgrt) edubuntu lab would be possible
<mhz> re
<mhz> hi all
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> Yagisan: my man!!
<mhz> Yagisan: how are you doing?
<Yagisan> mhz: not good. 2 customers this week have refused to pay. It seems to be a planned thing, as they know each other. 1 even disconnected their phone.
<Yagisan> mhz: put me out of pocket $200 AUD
<mhz> damn!
<Yagisan> mhz: and it's my daughter Kate's birthday on monday
<mhz> Yagisan: it seems you are not having a good 2006 start
<Yagisan> mhz: nope. quite shit actually
<Yagisan> mhz: and yourself ?
<mhz> same
<mhz> :(
<mhz> at least you are not the only one
* Yagisan hands mhz a drink
<mhz> hehehe
* mhz hands Yagisan a glass of milk
<mhz> or coffee
<mhz> Yagisan: maybe the good thing, so far, is that I got a sponsor who will provide the infrastructure I need to make a nice event to promote IT and Education integration
<Yagisan> excellent, with that glass of milk coating my stomach, I can consume vast quantities of alcohol tonight ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: tha's good new
<Yagisan> s/tha's/that's
<Yagisan> mhz: saw something amusing on the forums. It was a thread about my private repo
<mhz> ohh? the game one?
<Yagisan> mhz: yep - that one
<Yagisan> mhz: someone wanted to know if it was trustworthy and should they use it.
* mhz has still not had the time to experiment with game.. but wants to do it so his kis can see Linux has cool games
<mhz> Yagisan: is it trustworthy ?
<Yagisan> mhz: there are some more cool games in revu
<mhz> revu?
<Yagisan> mhz: revu - proposed new packages for ubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: trustworthy - they wanted to know if it had viruses etc, would it break their ubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: revu - http://revu.tauware.de/
<Yagisan> wow - I just crashed ubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> nice effort
<kenroy_> hello
<kenroy_> what does edubuntu offers that the other ubuntus don't
<Kamping_Kaiser> a totaly dead channel :0
<mhz> kenroy_: basically,.. edubuntu = LTSP + edu applications + themes and background aimed for schools
<mhz> Kamping_Kaiser: and maybe you are trying this channel on hours that most of us are either sleeping or eating or in family time :D
<kenroy_> nice
<kenroy_> get the kids involved in linux
<mhz> Kamping_Kaiser: i am sure that during 12 UTC and 22 UTC this is more crowded
<Kamping_Kaiser> mhz: quite probably :)
<mhz> kenroy_: yup
<mhz> Kamping_Kaiser: on working days, not weekends :D
<mhz> Kamping_Kaiser: as you can see, I am about having breffast now
<mhz> :D
<kenroy_> you guys tool the number one spot for bet internet browser from microsoft and now talking away the #1 position for school desktop from them
<mhz_food> kenroy_: hehehe, well it was not planned
<mhz_food> but cool!
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: hey mon
<jsgotangco> mhz_food, what's up man?
<mhz_food> about to have breakfast
<jsgotangco> i already did my screenshots :P
<mhz_food> ohh
<jsgotangco> breakfast? and we're about to sleep here!
<Kamping_Kaiser> mhz_food: <grin>
* mhz_food has assigned after lunch time to do his part
* Yagisan can't find anything in my logs to indicate why I crashed ubuntu
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: hehehe, IC magic
<mhz_food> jsgotangco: hehehe, IRC magic
<Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: i was gong to catch you about EdU doc as well.
<mhz_food> Yagisan: maybe it was meant to be
<mhz_food> :)
<kenroy_> but its good
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, yeah, its me and mhz_food planning for it
<kenroy_> i never enjoyed linux until now
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok :)
<mhz_food> kenroy_: I never enjoyed linux until I quit Apple machines
<kenroy_> ok
<kenroy_> well i never used a mac
<mhz_food> okis guys... wife complaining .. breakfast time!
<mhz_food> see ya in a couple of hours or less
<Kamping_Kaiser> see you tomorrow mhz_food
#edubuntu 2006-02-24
<gtek> can someone please help me understand edubuntu installation
<gtek> I installed it on my computer and set it up as a server, added my thin client with a bootable PXE NIC
<gtek> nothing happened. 
<gtek> isn't suppose to be setup from the start or is there something that i am missing?
<ogra> gtek, see the install notes from the channel topic
<gtek> ogra , where are they located?
<ogra> on the wiki ... try /topic 
<gtek> orgra, have you setup the server for use with thin clients?
<ogra> yes
<gtek> orgra, once you setup the edubuntu server was the configuration complete?
<ogra> nope, it isnt directly set up ... you need do one step, see the link in the topic of this IRC channel, it describes it 
<Seveas> ogra, poke
<ogra> Seveas, peek
<Seveas> ogra, I saw your car today: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/i8815
<ogra> hehe, cool :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 15 Feb at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes| http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-4/
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 15 Feb at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-4/
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 15 Feb at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Flight 4 it out ! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-4/
<ogra> sorry for the noise 
<mhz> ogra: the devil evil
<mhz> http://www.paul.sladen.org/junk/img/scary-paul-49pc.jpg
<jdumont> Heres what I did.... I installed Ubuntu from the cdrom.  Then someone in #ubuntu gave me a command to get edubuntu vs. having to download the edubuntu iso..  Is that all there is to it?  Do I have exactly what I would if I burned an edubuntu cd? Thanks.
<mhz> jdumont: who told you that?
<mhz> jdumont: if you already have ubuntu installed, then there are 2 options:
<mhz> a) install edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop on top of your current ubuntu
<jdumont> i got it in the ubuntu channel
<mhz> example: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop edubuntu-server
<mhz> But if you only want/need the edu applications,
<mhz> the only edubuntu-desktop
<jdumont> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop  is what I typed in.
<mhz> jdumont: what is exactly you are looking for?
<mhz> jdumont: then , you only got edu-applications, no LTSP environment
<jdumont> i installed ubuntu but wanted to explore the whole edubuntu terminal server concept.
<jdumont> i was in the midst of downloading a 650mb edubuntu iso when i asked the question in #ubuntu....  then someone gave me the command.
<jdumont> then after i rebooted, i have the edubuntu looking desktop and apps
<jdumont> so "now" i was just asking if what I have is what I would have if I installed edubuntu fresh.  thanks.
<mhz> nope
<mhz> then you only need to install edubuntu-server now
<jdumont>  sudo apt-get install edubuntu-server   like that?
<mhz> that will provide the LTSP environment
<mhz> yup
<jdumont> so I've gone from ubuntu > edubuntu-desktop > edubuntu-server.
<jdumont> LTSP... I'll have to look that one up.
<jdumont> Linux Terminal Server Project... ah
<jdumont> there she blows...
<mhz> heheh
<jdumont> so do i reboot now?
<jdumont> i had to when i did the desktop
<jdumont> i'll try logging off/on instead this time
<jdumont> anyone home?  I installed the sudo apt--get ubuntu-server but nothing looks different.
<squareyes> Hi all, am making up an html file to show local schools a taste of Edubuntu. Would it be possible for me to use the text on opening page of edubuntu.org
<squareyes> What I have done so far -  http://www.users.on.net/~squareyes/edubuntu.html
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi squareyes
<squareyes> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
<ogra> squareyes, looks great :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> squareyes: apart from another node user where do i know you from :/ linuxsa?
<ogra> i think you can take the text as you like...
<squareyes> have handed out cd's to some, with edubuntu address, but no one ever checks it out, so figured I will put it on CD and show them. Didin't want to pinch anyone else's work
<squareyes> Went to  few linuxsa meetings, may remember the whiskers:-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> the nics realy familar :) *thinks*
<squareyes> name's Winton
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. very familar, oh well, i might click later
<squareyes> well I am off, need my beauty sleep, when you look like me need as much as you can get. take care
<troy> help
<jsgotangco> ogra, ping
<mhz> jsgotangco: alive and kicking?
<mhz> or should i say... awake and kikcing?
<mhz> ck
<jsgotangco> well
<mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/tuxmania/WikiCourse/BasicIntroduction/000_What_is_a_Wiki%3F
<mhz> is that KISS for you?
<mhz> jsgotangco: I could easily modify it to render as one sinlge slide for SlideShow
<jsgotangco> oohh that is pretty neat
<mhz> single slide = I mean single page so that SlideShow can render it pretty well
<mhz> all slides
<mhz> into one single page
<mhz> and it could even make it easy to print :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: so, do you think it could work for a "Before you screw our wiki" Tour ?
<jsgotangco> lol that's too harsh
<mhz> heheh
<jsgotangco> "to know more about a wiki, check out the tutorial"
<mhz> oh, you are in -doc too
<mhz> of course
<mhz> it was meant between us :D
<jdumont> hello
<jdumont> so .... my whole purpose is to install an edubuntu server and have thin clients connect and run apps etc.  i've installed ubuntu edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server .  my last task was to install 'server' mode but just got a CLI.  now i have edubuntu desktop again.  where do i go now?
<jdumont> well nice yakking with y'all
<jjjjjjj> hello all
#edubuntu 2006-02-25
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> ogra: howdy. the ubuntu announce list mentions en edubuntu flight 4 cd. is it available yet?
<jjjjjjj> hi, anyone here?
<jjjjjjj> hi zakame
<zakame> heya jjjjjjj :D
<jjjjjjj> can i ask a q: ?
<jjjjjjj> i would like to setup edubuntu as a server and have thin clients connect to it.  is this feature built in or do i do freenx for that task?
<jjjjjjj> i would like to setup edubuntu as a server and have thin clients connect to it.  is this feature built in or do i do freenx for that task?
<jjjjjjj> and... do them thin client pc's need a hard drive.
<highvoltage> jjjjjjj: it has it built-in, it just requires some post-install configuration
<jjjjjjj> sudo apt-get something?
<jjjjjjj> i did try sudo apt-get install desktop-server yesterday but saw no real difference from edubuntu-desktop
<jjjjjjj> how proficient should one be with edubuntu if he/she wants to try any Testing?
<jjjjjjj> well just in case someone else asks the same question I did about terminal servers maybe send them here.
<jjjjjjj> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Chapter_5_-_Thin-Client_Computing?highlight=%28thin-client%29
<jjjjjjj> thank you and goodbye.
<jsgotangco> nice nick
<jsgotangco> hey guys i just uploaded an updated edubuntu release notes and should build in doc.ubuntu.com in a few minutes
<jsgotangco> still need to check other stuff
<jsgotangco> oh wait a bit
<jsgotangco> i just remembered
<jsgotangco> 5.10 didn't have PPC!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i see an irc message from you made it onto the flight 4 page :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> it was staged
<highvoltage> :)
<jsgotangco> im building a quick guide page for the distro at the moment
<jsgotangco> (edubuntu)
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm building up a text file with comments i'm going to send to ogra 
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: it included some things for that start page
<jsgotangco> whats in that?
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<highvoltage> for instance, i think we should have links in that page to the local installation of schooltool
<highvoltage> because there's no real link to it anywhere in the entire edubuntu UI
<jsgotangco> doc.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to build my current work so if you have a working copy of ubuntu-docs from svn just update
<highvoltage> ok
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i've made previews of docs for edubuntu at doc.ubuntu.com
<jsgotangco> at the moment it just contains release notes and about edubuntu
<jsgotangco> i'll try to finish up the prelimiary quickguide TOC for review
<JaneW> jsgotangco: great I'll have a look at soon as I can
<pips1> hi all
<pips1> JaneW, the meeting about the edubuntu website is about to start, right?
<JaneW> oh dang, yes
<JaneW> it's slipped my mind, because I didn't set a reminder...
<pips1> JaneW, you forget!
<JaneW> *blush*
<pips1> :-)
<JaneW> been arranging 3 sprints....
<pips1> woah
<pips1> well, I made some progress with the drupal test site in the last four days
<JaneW> cool
<JaneW> we have 5 mins right?
<JaneW> I'll brb
<pips1> so, I guess people can have a peek... to inform their views regarding the future Edubuntu website
<pips1> JaneW, sure
<JaneW> ok back - will be having lunch very late today ;)
<JaneW> I had no idea so much of the day had passed already!
<JaneW> are the other suspects here?
<JaneW> highvoltage, mhz and hno73?
* JaneW looks for hno73 
<highvoltage> hi there
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<JaneW> wonder where mhz is...?
<JaneW> hi heno
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> btw if everone doesn't know; heno = hno73
<highvoltage> heno is easier to pronounce than hno73, i'm glad he changed it
<heno> yeah, sorry about the change of nick :p
<highvoltage> :)
<heno> ok, cool :)
<JaneW> heno: it looks like you get to be moin advocate
<JaneW> mhz is missing
<heno> heh, ok
<JaneW> we need to get this sorted out today, once and for all
<highvoltage> yes, please!
<JaneW> shall we hear from the drupal corner and agree that unless drupal can convince us, we default to Moin?
<pips1> ok
<JaneW> pips1: no pressure ;)
<heno> I think your point was good that whoever ends up maintaining it should have a key say
* pips1 is sweating and near to a nervous breakdown
<pips1> ;-)
<pips1> heno, agreed
<heno> (which I don't plan on doing btw :) )
<highvoltage> JaneW: i think both are great, so if it's not drupal, it should certainly be moin, and vice-versa
<JaneW> heno: right, I think that's the crux
<pips1> yeah, the maintenance is the big question
<JaneW> highvoltage: ita, to me it makes no difference, so like I say the person who gets the job so be happy and excited about what they are working on
<heno> I don't know very much about the workings of drupal, so I wouldn't mind seeing a deployment up close anyway
<JaneW> so do we know who will own it, or are there several part-time volunteers?
<pips1> but, let's see what people think about drupal ... they can have a look at the test site i whipped up in the last few days
<JaneW> ok, the floor is yours
<heno> pips1: URL?
<highvoltage> there's not really much on that drupal site :/
<pips1> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSiteUnderDevelopment?action=show
<pips1> highvoltage, you are right!
<pips1> the url are just a few important remarks about the test site
<pips1> basically, it's a really old crummy test server, just to show you guys drupal quick, and then I will take the site down again...
<pips1> here is the test site url : spock.isz.ch
<JaneW> pips1: I was reading that whole page looking for the link to the site!
<pips1> JaneW, that was on purpose! ;-)
<pips1> hehe
<JaneW> pips1: thanks - not
<highvoltage> JaneW: he very tactfully forced you to read the entire page ;)
<highvoltage> pips1++
<JaneW> pips1: how easy is it to change the skin?
<pips1> very easy
<pips1> i can switch some skins right now for you guys :-)
<JaneW> Q:will we have to creat new logins for whichever is chosen?
<JaneW> pips1: please do...
<pips1> maybe I wait a couple of mins so you can have a look at what's there now
<JaneW> pips1: that's the default look right?
<pips1> JaneW, new logins when we switch a skin?? no.
<highvoltage> JaneW: drupal supports XML RPC so it should be possible to use your launchpad account, iiuc
<pips1> JaneW, yes, that's the default look
<JaneW> pips1: I mean we currently have wiki logins
<heno> changing skins can be easy, but making a good skin takes time ...
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok thanks
<pips1> heno, you are right about skins taking time
<JaneW> although for these pages we don;t want general public access necessarily
<pips1> btw, I realised that The Fridge is running with Drupal... does anybody know who maintains the fridge?
<JaneW> heno/ pips1 : would it mean redesigning for drupal, or could the moin look be imported in some way?
<JaneW> pips1: daniel robitalle I think
<pips1> JaneW, I guess we could modify the fridge skin...
<heno> JaneW: much of the CSS and images could be ported I'm sure
<JaneW> the fridge has a nice skin, but we'd need to give it an edubuntu look
<pips1> well, we'd have to ask daniel robitalle
<heno> I didn't realise the Fridge used Drupal, cool.
<pips1> JaneW, agreed
<JaneW> ok so who will run OUR site
<pips1> ok, let me change the skin quick, just for fun
<JaneW> pips1: you weren't able to give us much time before
<heno> jdub did much of the design work for the Fridge I think
<JaneW> which is understandable
<pips1> done, this is the spreadfirefox theme
<JaneW> I expect in this case we will have a lot of work initially, and then things will settle down
<JaneW> I like that one more
<highvoltage> pips1: do you have the time resources to run the edubuntu drupal site?
<heno> Ah, that's cool
* highvoltage likes the sff theme
<JaneW> after the initial intensive work, we will need someone to do ad hoc edits with a reasonable response time
<heno> Another key question: what will the site mainly be used for?
<heno> community contributions?
<JaneW> and then add new stuff and remove old every few months prolly
<pips1> highvoltage, well i have some time, because I currently work part-time only, but it would be on an volunteer basis, it would be good if we can share the responsability and help each other out...
<JaneW> I'd prefer to see 2/3 ppl contributing
<highvoltage> pips1: i'm willing to do that. i had lots of ideas for the original drupal site too
<JaneW> but I think 1 person should lead
<pips1> JaneW, agreed
<highvoltage> at the moment my time looks better too, it seems that my free time will be better for at least the next month or so.
<pips1> I am happy to help
<JaneW> heno and highvoltage did a fantastic job last time
<pips1> I'd be happy for highvoltage to have the lead...
<pips1> or whoever volunteers 
<JaneW> but we haven't really made changes since then
<highvoltage> JaneW: thanks, heno did a fantastic job on the layout though, i have to give him credit there.
<JaneW> and I think we need to focus on adding new stuff and keeping up to date and interesting now
<pips1> JaneW, yes, content is king
<highvoltage> yes, mostly because we've been jumping between drupal and moin
<JaneW> yes, I was surprised, I didn't expect our site and wiki to be as fab as they are :))
<highvoltage> and partially because we've used moin mostly anyway for pages that should change
<heno> highvoltage: nah, you had already done the basic design, I just tweaked :)
<JaneW> can we make a call? Drupal vs Moin?
<pips1> but I also think that navigation is important, and the site should be very newbie friendly, since we are dealing with educators and kids...
<JaneW> pips1: yes agreed
<JaneW> ultimately we should have sections for diff users
<pips1> JaneW, you want to decide already ?!
<JaneW> are there more arguments to be heard?
<pips1> I haven't even pointed out some of the features, heck!
<heno> perhaps I should show a moin site as well? 
<highvoltage> i'm fine with both, but since mhz isn't here, i think it's important to note why the moin site is a good option
<heno> http://www.theopencd.org/
<JaneW> the fact that the frdige is using drupal means the deicision to go there is not that 'out there'
<heno> is one I put up recently
<JaneW> heno: and www.ubuntu.com of course ;)
<highvoltage> it's what ubuntu.com uses too, and users are used to editing pages in both
<heno> It has some locked down pages in front and more of an open wiki elsewhere
<heno> JaneW: ah, that too
<JaneW> heh
<highvoltage> heno: that's the single most nicest moin page i've ever seen
<JaneW> I like the crsip neatness of drupal and the frames, but I think moin could have those too
<JaneW> so I am completely undecided
<JaneW> highvoltage: are you and heno in a mutual flattery club? ;)
<heno> http://www2.canonical.com/ is another
<pips1> heno, wow you even got a forum in there!
<highvoltage> JaneW: seems so, yes :P
<heno> pips1: It's a bit of a fake forum
<heno> but it sort of works
<pips1> JaneW, I know that the design is what appeals to everybody, but don't forget the features... :-)
<heno> Good point. What features do we need?
<JaneW> the forum is quite nice, if it stays low-volume
<heno> How should a community contributor go about submitting something?
<JaneW> pips1: ok tlak about the features, cos all I know is the look so far...
<pips1> well, i think there are lots of features in use in the "ubuntu world" but they are a bit strewn all over different platforms/tools...
<highvoltage> what's a big ++ for drupal, is the structure it provides
<heno> How tight should the editorial control be, etc?
<JaneW> well are we going to do a gallery or will that stay on art.u.c?
<highvoltage> i think it should be on the drupal site, but there's no reason why it couldn't be on both, right?
<heno> highvoltage: the problem I have foubd with structured CMSes though is that structure becomes limiting
<JaneW> heno: I think we should keep a few front pages with restricted access
<heno> stopping you from laying things out the way you want
<highvoltage> heno: i think i know what you mean, but in which way does it become limiting the most?
<highvoltage> heno: is it that "stuck inside the box" factor?
<highvoltage> oh i see.
<heno> yes
<pips1> heno, regarding editorial control, that's somewhat a political/policy question, personally, I like the open approach of wikis very much, I think it's the way forward, but on the other hand, a wiki needs a bit of learning and I think we could provide a more welcoming experience with some nicely done site
<heno> I even wrote a rand about it http://www.theopencd.org/news/2005/newsite :)
<highvoltage> the reason why i think drupal is a good reason, is because i think more people will be likely to contribute at this stage. technically, moin is nicer. overall, i think that drupal is the best short-term solution (short term being the next year or so)
<pips1> heno, regarding structure: that is the main strong point of drupal: it's not so different from a wiki, i.e. free floating pages, but you can then assign those pages with some structure, during creation (by the author) or afterwards (e.g. by a site architect)
<heno> pips1: yep. We once had a teacher use the official SFD wiki as a teaching tool, getting his kids to set up hundreads of random pages there. A bit of a mess
<heno> though we were getting spammed ...
<pips1> heno, huh? what was getting spammed?
<pips1> ah, I understood
<heno> pips1: that souds pretty good, like topic tags in gmail
<pips1> drupal's access control is simple to understand (unlike zope2 e.g.) but quite powerful
<pips1> yes, the new version of drupal (which is in beta 4 and about to be released) features "free tagging" VERY NICE
<heno> The moin ACL is poweful and flexible, but a bit of a mess to set up; the syntax is confusing
<heno> the ubuntu wiki has no access control at all, amazingly it works
<pips1> heno, highvoltage, JaneW - I can send you some account login details, then you can have a look "behind the scenes"
<JaneW> pips1: ok thanks
<heno> pips1: that would be cool
<highvoltage> pips1: i'm familiar with drupals interface, i don't think i need one
* pips1 fires up thunderbird to send those emails he prepared earlier
<highvoltage> perhaps also of interest, check all the plug-ins and skins available at http://www.drupal.org
<highvoltage> there's a huge community behind it
<heno> what about the hosting itself? where will the site be?
<JaneW> heno: good point
<highvoltage> heno: on the edubuntu server
<heno> is that a data center server?
<pips1> ok, i sent emails to heno, highvoltage and JaneW 
<highvoltage> heno: yes, it's name is orcadas.ubuntu.com
<heno> pips1: would obviously need access to that
<pips1> does anybody else here want to have a look ?
<JaneW> ty
<heno> ah, ok
<highvoltage> heno: it's a big server that currenly hosts 3 html pages :)
<highvoltage> heno: and that's it!
<heno> ah, yes I remember now
<heno> do you need shell access to admin a drupal site?
<pips1> heno, don't know, lemme check
<heno> with moin, you probably do because we're using it in a non-standard way
<JaneW> highvoltage: we have our OWn server?
<highvoltage> no, you don't need shell access for drupal admin
<JaneW> highvoltage: I thought we just had some space on another server?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, for all practical purposes
<highvoltage> i think heno has root, i'm not 100% sure
<pips1> heno, no, you don't need root access 
<heno> no I don't have root access to any DC machines
<heno> just the external pronto servers
<highvoltage> JaneW: nope, initially we were going to get an account with an isp, but currently (and for the last 6 months), www.edubuntu.com is the only thing running from that server
<JaneW> highvoltage: oic
<JaneW> highvoltage: and the technicalities of getting Moin vs Drupal on there... is there much difference?
<highvoltage> JaneW: sorry, i see testbed.kubuntu.org is also on that server now
<JaneW> highvoltage: you said we needed the sys admins involved...
<pips1> hey, nobody participated in the poll yet, under "Contribute" ;-)
<pips1> it's a shame that flint isn't here
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, znarl was just about to install drupal when i stopped him last time
<JaneW> pips1: er, no it's not!
<JaneW> pips1: what poll?
<heno> drupal is python based?
<pips1> on the test site, under 'contribute'
<pips1> heno, no php
* JaneW looks
<spacey> wheres the testsite?
<pips1> oh, sorry, I remember, i disabled participating in polls for anonymous users, so you need to login with the details in the mail i sent...
<JaneW> pips1: LOL
<pips1> spacey, spock.isz.ch
<heno> and the admins are fine with a php-based site? 
<spacey> dapper drake is a duck as well =)
<heno> How is the data stored? in a database? how do version upgrades work? How easy is it to dump the content out of the system?
<pips1> heno, in a sql database, either mysql or preferably, postgresql
<pips1> small version upgrades can be done with patch files
* heno could never get the hang of databases
<pips1> large version upgrades also, I think, need to check
<pips1> re dumping the content, hmm, don't know, I think there are some export options, the latest version definitely supports exports to docbook
<heno> How much existing data do we have that needs to be transfered? will we still use the wiki for much of it?
<pips1> so, what do we do now... i expected some more of the usual suspects to be here.. including the documentation folk, ...
<heno> The drupal solution looks fine to me (though I don't know much about the technical aspects)
<pips1> heno, I think the wiki will still be used for much of the free flowing user contributions, but the point of the official site is to give newbies a nice base to get started, and offer ONE place for that... i.e. there is an forum on the site.... 
<heno> I'd be happy to give advice on the layout and skinning of it
<pips1> heno, cool
<JaneW> ok, so do we have a verdict?
<heno> pips1: right real new newbies seem to like forums
<pips1> highvoltage, you have gone a bit quiet
<JaneW> shall we have a quick vote?
<highvoltage> sorry, multitasking
<pips1> the four of us will vote? :-)
<JaneW> or does anyone want to represent Moin quickly, to be fair?
<JaneW> I think let's vote here, then send results to mailing list
<pips1> what happened to supporter no. 1?
<pips1> mhz
<pips1> ?
<highvoltage> one question, kind of in the defense of moin
<JaneW> if there is no outcry the vote stands...
<JaneW> pips1: I dunno
<highvoltage> what will happen to all the existing moin pages, will we keep them, and continue to use the moin for the wiki
<highvoltage> and keep both? or just have the drupal site?
<JaneW> well the ubuntu wiki is moin...
<JaneW> and we tag onto that
<JaneW> it's merged
<JaneW> so I guess it has to stay moin...
<highvoltage> so if we use drupal, we use both the druap site and moin?
<pips1> highvoltage, I think we should have the wiki as a place for community contributions from more experienced folk
<JaneW> we need ppl to be able to search the ubuntu pages for support
<highvoltage> in that case, we have very little to loose, becaulse we'll have the functionality of both
<JaneW> highvoltage: right, it;s just that we have to maintain both
<pips1> highvoltage, yep
<JaneW> which could be an issue
<pips1> JaneW, yep
<highvoltage> in that case, i'm all for the drupal site
<JaneW> unless you drupal folk do it as you say :))
<JaneW> ok, let the voting begin
<JaneW> all in favor of Drupal say +1
<highvoltage> +1
<heno> I will officially abstain so that mhz doesn't loose all faih in me :)
* JaneW kicks pips1 
<pips1> highvoltage, but to be clear, the current edubuntu site content (locked pages) will be moved to drupal, and only the open wiki part will be kept at wiki.ubuntu.com
<pips1> right?
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, the locked pages
<heno> sounds right
<pips1> +1
<pips1> :-)
<JaneW> anyone else?
<pips1> you?
<JaneW> ogra: ?
<pips1> ogra, ping!
* JaneW is still undecided ...
<JaneW> I like the idea of drupal
<JaneW> but moin seems safer (yet somehow less exciting)
<JaneW> ok so far 2 to Drupal
<ogra> pong
<ogra> morning, sorry, had a late night
<pips1> JaneW, you said it yourself in the mail you sent out, before voting on drupal vs. moin, we need to decided on who is the main person responsible...
<pips1> :-)
<JaneW> all in favour of Moin say +2 (just so it's dfferent)
<JaneW> pips1: right, so who will take ownership?
<pips1> JaneW, that is so far out, your voting technique
* pips1 is rolling on the floor laughing
<JaneW> heno/ highvoltage/ pips1/ ogra / mhz: ??^^
<JaneW> pips1: yeah sorry I didn't think it through very carefully... *blush*
<heno> I still think Moin is a better choice, but it does take some care and feeding when used as a CMS
<highvoltage> i can take ownership
<JaneW> ok for Drupal say Drupal+1, for Moin say Moin+1
<highvoltage> sorry, i've had some interruptions. aaagh! there's the phone again
<JaneW> highvoltage: will you manage it? I mean can spare the time?
<pips1> highvoltage, good stuff!!!
<pips1> applause! please
<JaneW> pips1: and are you commiting to help?
<pips1> JaneW, sure, as I said, i'm glad to help
<JaneW> *bounce*
<JaneW> well then it's up to you and highvoltage really
<JaneW> and you both said drupal
<highvoltage> JaneW: at least for the next month or so, yes
<highvoltage> JaneW: after that, if things get as busy again as they were recently, i'll find a replacement
<pips1> highvoltage, you seem rather uncertain...
<highvoltage> pips1: it's definately something i want to do
<highvoltage> pips1: and i have time now
<pips1> ok
<JaneW> highvoltage: well then we will take it now
<highvoltage> pips1: once most of the site is up, the maintenance won't be so much
<heno> It looks ike the spread firefox theme can be modified fairly easily to look edubuntu-ish
<JaneW> however if you 2 vanish and mhz and heno are left 'holding the baby' I will hunt you both down.. ok?
<highvoltage> heno: i saw the same thing
* JaneW bats eyelids
<heno> change the header image and some colours
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, that's fine with me
<pips1> highvoltage, yeah, getting the site up is the greatest effort, but I think the *content* needs constant encouragement... 
<JaneW> heh, cool
<highvoltage> heno: i think it will look even nicer than the real ubuntu theme, since the sff theme is so nice and smooth, i'm downloading it now to play with it
<JaneW> ogra: you ok with this?
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, you're right, i think we can manage it by having weekly website meetings, and managing the site almost like the docteam does with it's documentation
<ogra> i'm ok with everything you decide here, the people who have to work with it count ...
<JaneW> ok, we can't change our minds again on this.
<highvoltage> ie, set regular, small achievable goals, etc.
<JaneW> so the final verdict is Drupal
<JaneW> and highvoltage will make sure it gets done, and pips1 is going to help
<JaneW> agreed?
* pips1 hopes that all moin supporters say something at this point
<highvoltage> yes
<Yagisan> I know I have nothing to do with this - but are either drupal or moin in main ?
<ogra> one thing we should make sure is that we now *really* have a final decision ... we jumped back and forth with this topic ...
<highvoltage> pips1: i think they (us) should be fine, since the moin site will remain
<Yagisan> because I would not want to track security issues if eiter are not
<heno> often the act of making a decision and getting on with it is more important than what the actual choice is
<heno> So, I think this is a good thing
<highvoltage> ok, so it's drupal, I'm emailing znarl on it, and that's the final word!
<Yagisan> s/eiter/either
<pips1> ok, fine
<pips1> Yagisan, don't know about moin, but drupal isn't in main
<pips1> highvoltage, I recommend the drupal book that has come out not long ago
<JaneW> I thin we did this democratically and we did give ppl notice of the meeting so they can't complain
<JaneW> I'll send a follow-up note to the mailing list
<heno> yep, good meeting. Thanks for inviting :)
<pips1> JaneW, yes, thanks!
* heno has to go now
<highvoltage> thanks JaneW 
<JaneW> highvoltage: I have no idea what our dapper artwork will look like, but I like the current colour scheme etc that we have, so can you guys work with that
<pips1> heno, thanks for coming too! see you!
<JaneW> thanks heno, I appreciate your input
* heno -> lunch
* JaneW needs lunch too
<JaneW> it got frgotten today, and now my stomach is reminding me
<pips1> same here
<highvoltage> JaneW: on that, it's definate that a professional is doing the artwork, right?
<pips1> highvoltage, so you definitely have some time this month, right?
<pips1> highvoltage, when can we get started? now? :-)
<pips1> (well, after lunch)
<highvoltage> pips1: yes. i'm downloading drupal for local testing, and i'm sending that mail to KArl
<pips1> cool
<highvoltage> pips1: i'm aiming to have a proto.edubuntu.org up by thursday
<pips1> nice
<highvoltage> pips1: i will escalate pesting levels accordingly to get it done ;)
<pips1> hehe
<Yagisan> pesting - oh no. sounds bad ;
<Yagisan> is tha like being a pest
<Yagisan> ?
<pips1> highvoltage, what's your preferred way of communicating? here on irc or mails?
<Yagisan> gah - birthday girl is hitting the keyboard
<highvoltage> pips1: irc, unless i'm marked as away, then jabber and e-mail is best.
<highvoltage> jabber is best even when i'm away, since messages will be kept until i log on
<highvoltage> Yagisan: on edubuntu, i hope!
<pips1> ah, jabber, haven't used that before, what client are you using for that?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: she just turned 2, and no - she's on ubuntu proper
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes we will have some prof work, one screensave, one splashscreen 9I think) and a CD civer design
<pips1> Yagisan, happy birthday to your daughter :-)
<Yagisan> thank you pips1
<highvoltage> Yagisan: yes, happy birthday to your daughter!
<highvoltage> JaneW: and LDM theme?
<JaneW> LDM?
<Yagisan> Ltsp Display Manager
<ogra> JaneW, you should really test our product :P
<divansantana> ogra: Hi its Divan again.
<ogra> highvoltage, i think we can go with the colorset from gdm (whichever that finally will be) and just stick the logo on top ...
<divansantana> I am loving this LTSP in Kubuntu!
<ogra> (as it is now)
<JaneW> ogra: lol
<divansantana> Internal is loving it too.
<JaneW> ogra: I have it on my laptop
<Yagisan> JaneW: lies ! ;)
<JaneW> want a screenshot? :P
<ogra> JaneW, but you urgently need a LTSP lab .... (at least to decide about ldm themes) ;)
<Yagisan> JaneW: of LDM sure :)
<JaneW> I have even stopped putting picture of my kids as the wall paper, in favor of the edubuntu girl
<ogra> heh
* ogra still has mustard on the screen :)
<JaneW> but yes I need to see LTSP-proper in action
<divansantana> ogra: Only problem is display manager (kdm/sdm/ldm - not sure??) is not sending out/accepting broadcasts XDMCP requests.Should I enable it in kdm file or xdm or ldm or neither?
<JaneW> ogra: !
<Yagisan> JaneW: your poor kids. I tried to attach mine to the screen, but the bluetac isn't strong enough
<ogra> divansantana, ubuntu ltsp doesnt use xdmcp at all
<JaneW> Yagisan: use super glue!
<Yagisan> divansantana: it is not supposed to send XDMCP request. that is not used
<ogra> divansantana, ldm uses a ssh tunnel ... 
<highvoltage> ogra: that sounds good (what you described as ldm theme)
<Yagisan> JaneW: I need something non-toxic, mum might want them back one day
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, mustard is way easier to get on the screen than girls :)
<divansantana> ogra:Ok, the old LTSP thin clients booted off a knoppix CD which simply search for any X servers and connects to it via etherboot i think. Can Ubuntu LTSP do the same?
<JaneW> Yagisan: ok, peanut butter and jam/jelly
<highvoltage> JaneW: let me know when you're in at the office again
<divansantana> At the moment get a gray screen with X cursor. But if boot off PXE works fine.
<highvoltage> JaneW: i can always arrange a demo for you :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: will do - thanks!
<JaneW> highvoltage: were you affected by the power outage yesterday?
<ogra> highvoltage, you noted that ldm already includes a edubuntu theme ?
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, so i finally started reading Free Culture
<JaneW> highvoltage: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060220102611846C246718 I was wondering if I would be able to work today, we were off the whole day yesterday...
<Yagisan> ogra: but girls look better ;) (her brother will be upset about that)
<ogra> Yagisan, heh
<highvoltage> ogra: not yet, this weekend i played with flight3, and when i wanted to play with a thin client on it, our power went out.
<highvoltage> grrrrr...
<JaneW> ogra: you are a freak
<ogra> JaneW, why ? 
<zakame> evening edubunteros! :D
<ogra> hey zakame 
<highvoltage> JaneW: geez. this is the biggest power problem we've ever had
<JaneW> ogra: nm, I read your comment again and now I understand, re the mustard ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: nod
<zakame> hello ogra ! :D
<ogra> JaneW, ah, kbecause i put mustard on my desk ... yes :)
<JaneW> ogra: I though you were saying you prefered mustart to girls
<ogra> lol
<JaneW> tart? make that tard
<Yagisan> JaneW: what were *you* thinking - naughty girl
<JaneW> lol
<ogra> JaneW, really.... there are girls in this world where i'd prefer mustard ... :)
<JaneW> haha
<ogra> if its good mustrad ...
<Yagisan> ogra: I feel that looking at the locals ...
<highvoltage> we should have a quotes.edubuntu.org for some of the things said in this channel, that mustard thing is real funny!
* Yagisan notes he can sound really harsh when slightly sick
<ogra> Yagisan, oh, what good choices of local mustard are there in sydney ? 
* ogra didnt even know ...
<Yagisan> highvoltage: expect me in it at least once a week
<divansantana> ogra:Ok, the old LTSP thin clients booted off a knoppix CD which simply search for any X servers and connects to it via etherboot i think. Can Ubuntu LTSP do the same?
<divansantana> At the moment get a gray screen with X cursor. But if boot off PXE works fine.
<divansantana> Sorry to but you Oliver, just not sure how to do that
<Yagisan> ogra: well I like Australian mustard, nice and savoury, but Hot English is nice with Japanese food if you can't find Wasabi
<ogra> divansantana, seems you run the ltsp.org classic ltsp ... that has not much to do with our ltsp implementation ... i'd guess you look at wiki.ltsp.org ...
<Yagisan> but the "chicks" here - they only exist in the photoshopped pages of mens magazines - because I sure as hell don't see them outside
<jsgotangco> nurse i need help!!!
<ogra> Yagisan, ah, i thought you talked about the local mustard, indeed you meant the girls :)
<Yagisan> divansantana: no - ubuntu ltsp does not work like that. that is an insecure method.
<divansantana> ogra:I didn't do that implemtation at all, i promise. I install kubuntu breezy 5.10 and apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone & didnt run any ltsp-admin or whatever
<pips1> highvoltage, I tried sending you a message on jabber but no luck... 
<divansantana> ogra: This is only command I have run, ltsp-update-sshkeys could that break it?
<ogra> divansantana, ah, moment ... you run a ubuntu ltsp .... and for testing you booted the client off a knoppix CD ?
<ogra> divansantana, nope
<highvoltage> pips1: i'm signed in and everything seems okay this side.
<pips1> highvoltage, I just signed up, my jabber name is pips1
<Yagisan> divansantana: I wrote an etherboot/pxe howto on the wiki. I'm sure ogra remembers the link
<highvoltage> pips1: pips1@?
<pips1> yes
<ogra> but you wont have luck with knoppix ... its using a local system based on, well, knoppix ... and will only work with old ltsp ...
<highvoltage> pips1: @ what? @jabber.org?
<ogra> can your users login on the server directly  ?
<Yagisan> divansantana: just make pxe compatable boot cd images, and it will work fine
<pips1> oh, yes, jabber.org (I think)
<pips1> sorry, new to this...
<ogra> Yagisan, i think his clients do PXE as i understood the above there is only a login problem with the default setup
<highvoltage> no problem
<divansantana> ogra: yes, they can. and via FreeNX and via PXE from thin clients, just some NICs/BIOS dont support PXE
<highvoltage> pips1: a jabber ID looks like an e-mail address, eg: highvoltage@jabberafrica.org or jonathan@jabber.org
<ogra> divansantana, ah ...
<Yagisan> ah
<divansantana> ogra: Maybe like you said its because of knoppix doesnt work on ubuntu LTSP. I will try boot CD as per the wiki
<ogra> divansantana, so Yagisans advise was right ... grab his howto and make boot CDs/floppies, whatever 
<ogra> yup
<divansantana> Yagisan: Thanks I think it was your wiki that I have been reading.
<ogra> that will solve it ... your etherboot clients will behave like PXE clients with it ...
<divansantana> ogra: K will try that!! Thanks you TOO very much!! 
<divansantana> ogra: awesome I hope so!! Thanks as always!!
<ogra> :)
* Yagisan needs to get around to updating that howto
<ogra> just dont break it ;) its the second most read howto after the install notes ... i even recommend it in #ltsp :)
* ogra digs back into screensaver bugs
<highvoltage> ogra: wow!
* highvoltage gets back to work too
<Yagisan> ogra: I won't break it. But I *am* tempted to put my name back on it ;)
<highvoltage> you know you spend too much time on IRC when you type /quit in gnome-terminal to close it.
<highvoltage> although, i've pressed ^d in IRC a few times too :)
<highvoltage> cheers, #edubuntu!
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> Is it possible to set up a system wide wine install ?
<Yagisan> it seems tedious to symlink magic all .wine directories
* pips1 is off to get some food
<bob> hey again ogra
<bob> what was that file i had to edit to set the screen res for clients?
<tuhl> ping ogra
<bob> hey again ogra
<bob> what was that file i had to edit to set the screen res for clients?
<spacey> mhz: ping
<spacey> :)
<tuhl> ogra_: ping
<ogra_> tuhl, pong
<mhz> spacey: pong
<mhz> hehe, lots of ping pong's
<mhz> JaneW: hi there, already recovered 100%
<JaneW> mhz: hi, you (or me?)
<mhz> JaneW: you
<JaneW> mhz: just packing up - going to gym shortly
<JaneW> mhz: yes I am much better thanks
<mhz> JaneW: oh, nice!
<JaneW> mhz: I can't fully shake it though - odd
<mhz> JaneW: any news from "your boss" ?
<mhz> JaneW: LOL
<JaneW> mhz: nada
<mhz> :(
<mhz> well, shall I just forget about his participation?
<mhz> and move on?
<spacey> mhz: i have a stupid question ;p
<mhz> JaneW: ?
<mhz> spacey: no question is ever stupid
<spacey> if you ask someone his name in spanish? Como te llamas?
<spacey> :P
<spacey> tu
<mhz> spacey: como te llamas? [it's perfect] 
<spacey> ok
<spacey> great
<spacey> :P
<spacey> thanks
<spacey> thanks senor hernandez
<mhz> spacey: como se llama? [it's for people you want to show special respect, like older people] 
<spacey> i need spanish special characters ;p
<mhz> spacey: yeah, but I dont use them unless I am writing docs or wiki
<spacey> and if you reply to that? Soy spacey, ?Que es? (and you?)
<spacey> :p
<spacey> never thought i would abuse edubuntu for my spanish lessons ;p
<mhz> spacey: Soy Mauricio / Me llamo Mauricio / Mauricio
<mhz> spacey: y tu? / y tu como te llamas? / cual es tu nombre?
<spacey> cool
<spacey> thanks :)
<mhz> spacey: no thanks! U$500 cash!
<Yagisan> ripoff!!
<mhz> :D
<spacey> grazias :p
<spacey> & sue me ;p
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> spacey: got enough assets to make it worth our while ;)
<Yagisan> class action - quick lets clean him out ;)
<spacey> i got insurance for laywer costs ;p
<spacey> Yagisan: too bad i don't live in usa ;p
<Yagisan> spacey: yeah, I should have checked your info first
<Yagisan> spacey: .nl right ?
<spacey> fortunately dutch law system is not as crappy as usa ;p
<spacey> yeah
<mhz> .oO(these people are nuts)
<Yagisan> spacey: one day you to will sign a "free" trade agreement and have to import that crap wholesale
<spacey> hehe
<spacey> the day I emigrate
<Yagisan> spacey: down under the politicions where smoking some bad stuff and signed a FTA with the USA. now the USA is trying to abolish our cheap medicines
<Yagisan> spacey: so people here can die, if they can afford inflated medicine costs from USA based companies
<Yagisan> s/can/can't
<Yagisan> bah s/can afford/can't afford
<spacey> i don't think EU knows what Free Trade is
<Yagisan> spacey: USA doesn't. It thinks it means it can sell to you, but you can't sell to it
<spacey> :>
<spacey> sucks
* Yagisan likes people from the USA, but the government is a completely different matter
<spacey> ask me in half a year if i like the people
<spacey> i'll go there on holiday this summer :)
<Yagisan> spacey: I've only met the ones here on holiday, they seem nice
<spacey> :>
<spacey> i never go to amsterdam, so i never meet them
<Yagisan> spacey: although I have no intention of going there - they like to arrest security expects on dmca clauses when you arrive
<Yagisan> s/expects/experts
<Yagisan> spacey: amsterdam, isn't that where pot is legal ?
<spacey> Yagisan: its legal in the entire netherlands however amsterdam is popular with the tourists
<Yagisan> spacey: it seems to cause mental issues if you have too much of the stuff
<spacey> depends 
<Yagisan> spacey: I know/knew some people that it seems to have stuffed with their heads
<spacey> after you smoke it
<spacey> it has quite some effect ofcourse
<Yagisan> I can be around people smoking it, the fumes cause me to get bad headaches
<Yagisan> s/can/can't
<spacey> however on the long term it shouldn't. Unless you have some mental problems.
<spacey> if you have some mental diseases its not so wise. Especially if you already have high risk of getting mental disease. Smoking it a lot in your youth is a really bad thing.
<spacey> s/youth/teens
<Yagisan> spacey: yeah, the sperm donor that knocked my mother up (well, you can't be a father if you aren't there) was a real big pot head when he was a teen. He's now rather odd
<Yagisan> spacey: I'm rather surprised I made it, because it does wonders for your sperm count
<spacey> well people can be odd without pot as well
<jsgotangco> err you really had to be so detailed wit the sperm donor bit?
<Yagisan> true, but like alcohol, it seems too much is not a good idea
<spacey> imo its almost the same as alcohol
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: well, she didn't go to  a sperm donor, but he was never there, so he may as well have been
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: there a lesson there. Never forget your kids, or one day they will kick your arse.
<spacey> imo you miss the good stuff in life if you smoke pot too much
<spacey> and it makes you lazy
<Yagisan> or drink to much
<spacey> although there are exceptions
<spacey> mostly depends on how strong you will/personality is.
<jsgotangco> oh well
<jsgotangco> later
<Yagisan> ./me casts +10 stubborn bastard on himself
* Yagisan casts +1 typing
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: catch you later
<Yagisan> spacey: One day I'd like to visit .nl with the missus while traveling around europe. Bit hard to do it with small kids though
<spacey> hm yeah
<spacey> well
<spacey> have to wait till they grow up
<spacey> :>
<spacey> i guess
<spacey> time to mentally prepare for spanish lesson with some anime ;p
<spacey> and then i'm off
<spacey> cya 
<Yagisan> cya spacey
<Yagisan> night all
<mhz> ogra: I have been invited to talk about current dev. status of dapper, the way Ubuntu community works, how to join teams, and the areas which need more volutneers on regular basis.
<mhz> ogra: obviously , I only have little ideas on those subjects. Do you have a presentation about this, so I can use it as base?
<Burgwork> mhz, there are some presentations on the wiki you can freely steal from
<mhz> Burgwork: yeah, I know, it is just faster to ask before reading one by one (if they were in the wiki format, they would be easy to track and find :D )
#edubuntu 2006-02-26
<jsgotangco> go go flight4!
<mhz> jsgotangco: hi there
<jsgotangco> hey!
<mhz> jsgotangco: have you ever talked about the following ubuntu topics: genesis, community contribution, ubuntu structure, more needing help areas, ubuntu projects, ubuntu flavours, etc?
<jsgotangco> those are pretty much available on the website
<ogra> jsgotangco, i'd love if someone could check my grammar ... i'm very tired and sure there are plenty of errors :)
<ogra> (in the announcement)
<mhz> jsgotangco: have you ever talked about the following ubuntu topics: genesis, community contribution, ubuntu structure, more needing help areas, ubuntu projects, ubuntu flavours, etc?i guess you know thta means reading every pdf or odp around, and not just knowing in advance what toipics each covers ;)
<mhz> sorry, that got copied
<jsgotangco> ogra: ok i'll check it when are you sending this?
<jsgotangco> ogra: you must be very tired, i couldn't understand the other stuff you written for the annoucement so i didn't edit much
<JaneW> I take it ogra is still asleep?
<jsgotangco> yeah
* JaneW wants to send out https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight4Announcement
<jsgotangco> i tried to edit his release annoucement but its so vague
<JaneW> can someone take a look for obvious errors please?
<jsgotangco> some parts don't make sense and i don't understand what he means
<jsgotangco> he must have been very tired
<JaneW> when did you look?
<jsgotangco> just 2 hours ago
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> dang
<jsgotangco> here's the part i dont understand
<JaneW> I made a few minor edits, but having not tested it the text seemed ok to me
<jsgotangco> LTSP now understands the X_MOUSE_DEVICE and X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL lts.conf options and adds support for various serial devices from ipaq touchscreens and over plenty of mouse protocols up to some serial tablets.
<jsgotangco> The as mentioned in a previous section, netboot mode speeds up the loading of the initramfs through the size reduction.
<jsgotangco> just have those 2 fixed and its ok
<JaneW> oh yes there was funny grammar there
<JaneW> and I only half fixed it...
<JaneW> hang on
<JaneW> look now
<JaneW> I made those bullet point to to make it more clear that they are separate items
<JaneW> it seemed like a run-on sentence before
<highvoltage> sentence fragment.
<jsgotangco> i didn't notice (im still at work)
<JaneW> ok well can someone check now after I fiddled?
* highvoltage reads
<jsgotangco> it seems ok to me now
<highvoltage> JaneW: looks good, i think
<JaneW> cool :)
<JaneW> shall I send it? I think ogra had a late night and isn't likely to emerge soon...
<jsgotangco> well that must be it
<jsgotangco> ogra just asked to have it reviewed for grammatical errors
<jsgotangco> i hope
<highvoltage> JaneW: in ubuntu, we tend to use "atp-get" instead of "emerge" ;)
<highvoltage> s/atp-get/apt-get
<JaneW> highvoltage: sigh
* JaneW will never be up to speed with all the requisite lingo :/
<JaneW> ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm already impressed by your current lingo set!
<JaneW> *beame*
<JaneW> SENT
<jsgotangco> OH GOD THERE'S A BIG ERROR
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: when someone types in capital letters like that, it means they're joking :)
<highvoltage> shame on you, jsgotangco!
<highvoltage> :P
<jsgotangco> i was testing her :D
<jsgotangco> oh jeez there's a huge error on that email
<highvoltage> omg, you're right
<highvoltage> our ltsp would never be able to do what we promise there!
<jsgotangco> i dont think she'll buy that either, we've already cried wolf
<highvoltage> yep. we'll get her next time :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: pah, well I just resent now, cos I wasn;t subscribed to u-a with that address ;P
<JaneW> blah blah
<jsgotangco> argghhh 
<jsgotangco> foiled again!
<JaneW> don;t take me on with foil - I WILL WIN
<JaneW> en guarde
<jsgotangco> nurse!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you are killing me! ;)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<ogra> ouch ...
<ogra> JaneW, who has put the "there is a bug in the chroot handling" section to the bugs section ?
<JaneW> ogra: me
<JaneW> ogra: cos you mentioned it above...
<ogra> this happens only on powerpc and breaks your installation if you run the command on systems where it worked fine
<JaneW> ogra: ahh, I didn;t get that subtlety
<ogra> oh, wait ...
<ogra> its only update-kernels, wont break :)
<JaneW> ogra: should I sent a correction?
<ogra> nah ...
<ogra> i mixed it up with ltsp-build-client :) it wont break anything, so its fine 
<JaneW> good
<JaneW> gah, such a long discussion...
<JaneW> we can;t seen to get this 'make everyone happy about Edubuntu
<JaneW> ' thing right
* JaneW stops multi-tasking and making mistakes...
* JaneW would like for us to once get a CD and announcement out, and to hear 'well done guys'.
<JaneW> or well done Ogra at least
<highvoltage> JaneW: didn't ogra get a "well done" last time? shame on whoever failed to comply.
<JaneW> I think flight 2 was our best so far
<JaneW> where did jsgotangco put the edubuntu docs he is working on?
<JaneW> found it..
<JaneW> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/about-edubuntu/C/index.html
<DeeJay1> hello
<highvoltage> ogra: i have a flight 3 local copy, how do i rsync to flight 4 again?
<highvoltage> hi DeeJay1 
<ogra> highvoltage, in the dir with the iso: rsync -az --progress rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-4/dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso dapper-install-i386.iso
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks!!
<DeeJay1> hmm, can anyone point me to a wiki page with notes how to upgrade from edubuntu 5.10 to dapper? (yes, sadly I'm a victim of googlelitis - the inability to find the right pages on google :/)
<ogra> DeeJay1, all ubuntu documentation applies here :)
<ogra> change all occurences of breezy to dapper in /etc/apt/sources.list and run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<ogra> thats all ...
<DeeJay1> and hope for the best? ;)
<ogra> but be warned, dapper is still in development, you might find bugs nobody knows about yet ;)
<ogra> exactly :)
<DeeJay1> I'm used to find bugs nobody knows about, that's the experience you get when using PLD Linux
<DeeJay1> but it's a lot different from Ubuntu and I don't feel at home here sadly :/
<DeeJay1> (the difference between Edubuntu and PLD is that Edubuntu "just works" where you can spend some time setting up a proper working environment in PLD)
<ogra> oh, btw, do you use the ltsp server in edubuntu ? 
<DeeJay1> ogra: I do
<DeeJay1> ogra: and apt-get dist-upgrade in the chroot will work ?
<ogra> i'd recommend to recreate the client chroot then ... there are changes a normal upgrade cant cover ....
<DeeJay1> s/and/an/
<ogra> it would work, but you loose some benefits from additions to the default setup ...
<DeeJay1> oh ok
* DeeJay1 thinks if there would be a way to teach network setup on a thin client
<ogra> creating it from scratch will for example rip out a lot of startup scripts we dont need on the client ... this isnt handled on upgrades
<ogra> so you'd loose the speedup gained through this ...
<DeeJay1> ok, I'll try to find the manual on the wiki for this...
<ogra> sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/i386 && sudo ltsp-build-client 
<ogra> if the first command complains about /var/lock /var/run, you should reboot between the two commands ...
<ogra> thats all you need ;) 
<DeeJay1> khym, that looks easy :)
<DeeJay1> BTW is there a newer login manager?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> (not newer, but prettier)
<ogra> same code, new gui
<DeeJay1> in the old one most things weren't working at all
<ogra> they were ripped out and made optional now ... until they work fully automatic...
<DeeJay1> hmm, ok, maybe I could help with it after my graduation in June
<DeeJay1> brb, rebooting to edubuntu...
<DeeJay1> ooops, ENOSPC
<DeeJay1> Need to get 645MB of archives, geez it would be easier to download a new ISO :)
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> and likely safer, since the milestone releases are tested to work ...
<ogra> (see channel topic for the recent one)
<DeeJay1> ogra: I know, but it's worth a try
<ogra> :)
<DeeJay1> and I can always report some bugs :P
<ogra> yay, i'm happy about every bug i get :)
<DeeJay1> it's sad that you're not a mono developer, you could fix some bugs I can't cope with
<eds0n> hey, I'm running and Ubuntu server with vmware-server to run clients on a Edubuntu server. The mouse does not work, does anyone have any suggestions?
<eds0n> the mouse doesn't work on the vmware client
<jsgotangco> ogra: you haven't been sleeping that much lately
<ogra> jsgotangco, we're heading towards a freeze :) 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> 2 days
<jsgotangco> :)
<jsgotangco> amd64 is good btw
<jsgotangco> (workstation)
<ogra> normal should be as well ... i didnt test workstation, good to know, thanks :)
<ogra> i still have no idea what to do with amd64 wrt ltsp setup ...
<signifer123> are we using the 2.6.15 kernal for dapper?
<ogra> yup
<DeeJay1> oh, BTW will it be possible to run i386 chroots with the amd64 version of Edubuntu dapper?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but currently amd64 automatically sets up a amd64 client environment that needs to be wiped first 
<ogra> (the CD installer that is)
<ogra> and i'm not sure if i want to keep the autocreation or not ...
<ogra> removing it on amd64 only is a huge amount of extra mainteance
<DeeJay1> wouldn't it be possible to let the user decide which type of chroot does he want while installing?
<ogra> that would add an extra question to the installer 
<ogra> which is a big nono in the ubuntu world ...
<DeeJay1> oh, I see
<DeeJay1> mono isn't shipped by default I suppose?
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> nope
<ogra> its not yet decided, it might be that f-spot gets in at some point which would pull in a basic set of mono
<jsgotangco> hmmm how big would that be..
<DeeJay1> so the "DeeJay1 writes a graphical installer for ltsp" option is out...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<ogra> DeeJay1, how good are your pygtk skills ? thats exactly what ltsp manager is missing
<signifer123> but the graphical installer for the base is done correct?
<jsgotangco> oh cooollll
* jsgotangco will branch this
<DeeJay1> ogra: I have absolutely no skills in python
<ogra> DeeJay1, i thought about an autodetection on startup, if /opt/ltsp is empty a gui installer is started to create the client chroot
<jsgotangco> this is soo cool
<ogra> thats dapper+1 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> i wasnt allowed such heavy changes this time ... :)
<jsgotangco> i would expect that
<jsgotangco> but i'll branch nonetheless
<ogra> yeah 
<jsgotangco> late dinner
<DeeJay1> ogra: that would be nice, but I think that it would have one drawback - root access, another password window wouldn't look good just after startup
<jsgotangco> brb
<DeeJay1> ogra: one mustn't have /opt to be world readable (there are some funny guys out there)
<ogra> DeeJay1, it would be in your system tools menu and just start with gksudo like every other admin program
<ogra> its not a replacement for the routine in the installer...
<DeeJay1> ogra: oh a small misunderstanding - with startup I thought - just after the installation
<ogra> nah, on i386 we can always assume the user wants a i386 chroot ...
<ogra> so the autoinstall will always run there ...
<ogra> powerpc as well can only serve powerpc out of the box, so the autoinstall can run there as well by default
<ogra> and since there are only amd64 packages on the CD you cant set up i386 on amd64 from a single edubuntu CD
<ogra> so the only option is to disable the chroot aotubuilder on amd64 or leave it as it is and require the user to remove it 
<ogra> (it = the chroot)
* DeeJay1 feels that leaving it would result in many "Edubuntu doesn't work on the thin-client" bugs
<ogra> true ... but thats something you can catch eith documentation ...
<ogra> s/eith/with/
<zakame> evening edubunteros! :D
<ogra> hey zakame 
<zakame> hi ogra! :D
<neurogeek> .seen mhz
<DeeJay1> got to run, have a nice day!
<highvoltage> bye, #edubuntu!
<bobulator> hey ogra, we got one thin client working at least :D i think it is the graphics card thats the issue. unfortnately theone we got working was a fine computer in it's own right, but you know...
<signifer123> welcome back
<michel> hello in 4 weeks i go to cameroon to install 4 edubuntu ltsp network with 10 thin clients each, i would like to have help in case of... 
<michel> who is insterested to help and collect experiences 
* signifer123 is confused as to what you are asking...
* signifer123 is easily confused
<signifer123> do we ahve a troubleshooter?
<signifer123> have*
<michel> i go with the material and i go to install it i test teh network here and it works but nobody knows what it cann happen there
<signifer123> yeah...thats most of the fun :-P
<michel> it would be intresting to collect experiences in these countries
<Burgwork> ogra, around?
<michel> i ask because sometimes it is difficult to get really help on the chat
<ogra> Burgwork, very partially ... i'm terribly busy ...
<Burgwork> ogra, never mind
<signifer123> what are some errors you have gotten before the login screen?
<signifer123> aimed at all
<signifer123> wait lol
<signifer123> theres a forum for stuf
<signifer123> where could i get a troubleshooter?
<signifer123> general linux one?
#edubuntu 2007-02-19
<cliebow> ok..i give up..name of executable to manage printers in ubuntu..
<cliebow> si if i do system-admin-printing..what is running?
<juliux> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey juliux
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, Burgundavia told me to tell you 'I vant to suck his blood..er..I mean I want his chapter' 1 hours, 57 minutes and 26 seconds ago (on Sun Feb 18 23:49:50 2007)
<bimberi> cliebow: gnome-cups-manager
<cbx33> ping Burgundavia
<pygi> wow, cbx33
<pygi> ogra, poke
<cbx33> i did try to send you an email...
<pygi> to who?
<pygi> edubuntugirl, tell ogra Would you mind getting in contact with me when you get some spare time pls?:)
<edubuntugirl> Righto, pygi!
<cbx33> edubuntugirl, tell Burgundavia, I will be home from work early tomorrow which will give me time to finish up those changes on the chapter.  I did try to email you, but pocketpc died.
<edubuntugirl> Righto, cbx33!
<cbx33> ping Burgundavia
<ajmitch> hi cbx33
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey ajmitch
<cbx33> hey Laser_away
<cbx33> nope there are are two today
<cbx33> Hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
* cbx33 just opened his own repo :)
<LaserJock> yeah, sorry
<LaserJock> I was tired of lag on my work computer
<LaserJock> so I fired up Xchat locally
<Burgwork> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> Hey Burgwork, got two secs?
<cbx33> really quick?
<Burgwork> yep
<cbx33> pm ->
<Burgwork> got it
<cbx33> I have phimage in my local repo ;)
<cbx33> well personal repo ;)
<cbx33> well cool
<cliebow>  bimberi:much obliged..
<cliebow> ahhh..not installed
<crazy_bus> My next door neightbour needs some help with long multipication and I was wondering if there was a program to help them
<LaserJock> crazy_bus: how old?
<crazy_bus> 10
<LaserJock> tuxmath is the only thing I could think of :/
<crazy_bus> tuxmath seemed a bit fast for long multipication.  Would kalcul or kmathtool also help?
<crazy_bus> Also I was looking at KEduca and I was wondering if there were any sample files to use with it?
<LaserJock> crazy_bus: I honestly don't know
<LaserJock> I would install them and try them out
<LaserJock> crazy_bus: I found a  perl script that will make a .ps file with a problem and answer key
<LaserJock> not sure if that's helpful much
<crazy_bus> not really.  Thanks anyway
<cbx33> ping ogra get my mail?
<sewensins> guten tag
<sewensins> english or german?
<ys76> sewensins: English preferred...
<sewensins> well kay then...i want to know if someone here could help me with questions regarding chroot with LTSP in edubuntu 1.wellidontknow
<sewensins> the things is...once the user logs in everything is fine..but ..users on the terminal still see the "real" root filesystem not the fake root envirement wich was created during install by ltsp
<sewensins> i want to know where i can create entries like chroot or so
<stgraber> the ltsp chroot is only used while booting a client
<stgraber> once logged you see the server filesystem
<sewensins> i know there is a file in /opt/tsp/i386/etc/ called lstp_chroot but that thing is empty and its not documented anywhere how i need to fill that with sense
<stgraber> the ltsp chroot is only used locally once X started you aren't connected locally but on the server
<sewensins> yeah one sees that but the users just have ro on the filesystem...as far as that its fine ...but i really want to jail these horrible kids so that they dont play around to much if you know what i mean
<sewensins> but anway thanks so far for ur answers mister stgraber
<stgraber> I doubt there is any easy way to do so as the software they will use have to be in the chroot
<stgraber> maybe it would be easier to find how to limit nautilus
<sewensins> hmmm yeah i seem to get the point
<sewensins> it must have st to do with some components wich are dreived from the basesystem while booting the client
<sewensins> sorry for my bad english by the way
<sewensins> correct me if im wrong...the way i understand what u say is...there is a whole rootfilesystem sitting in /opt/ltsp and its just used for bootig and afterwards its worth nothing... thats heavy ressourcekill
<stgraber> the thin clients have to boot and since they don't have a harddisk, the harddisk is stored on the server
<stgraber> but there isn't a lot of thing in it
<stgraber> just kernel + boot scripts + X
<stgraber> then the user log on the server
<stgraber> and use the "real" server /
<sewensins> okay
<sewensins> so no way of strangeling these kids into a chroot-jail
<stgraber> Check on the internet if there is an easy way to restrict the direcctory that can be seen using Nautilus
<stgraber> but as they have to access these files and run those softwares they will always have the rights to see them (but you can make that a bit harder to do :))
<sewensins> okay i will try
<sewensins> 4 now i wish to have a nice day night or whateva time it is
<juliux> morning
<juliux> ogra, the edubuntu weekend was a real sucess
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm_cairo_screenshot.png
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, pygi told me to tell you 'Would you mind getting in contact with me when you get some spare time pls?:)' 12 hours, 17 minutes and 46 seconds ago (on Mon Feb 19 01:55:09 2007)
<highvoltage> ogra: *drool*
<ogra> its a bit odd, you cant use standard widgets on the canvas .... so i have to design everything myself ...
<ogra> i.e. the entry field ...
<highvoltage> ogra: the other day you said that we wouldn't need pam_mount with LDM, but I haven't been able to figure out where you'd use sshfs and ldm on edubuntu yet
<ogra> we dont need pam mount for general network auth ... but we need it for fat clients
<ogra> and i was planning to use sshfs there
<highvoltage> ogra: from the ltsp plugin you posted the other day, the fat clients use GDM?
<ogra> in combination with pam_mount
<ogra> the plugin i posted was the kiosk plkugin ... yes, that uses gdm for a local autologin
<highvoltage> ah
<ogra> you can easily make it a full desktop kiosk ... by installing *-desktop in it
<highvoltage> so LDM would be usable for local logins (such as diskless fat) as well?
<ogra> and removing ~/.xsession of the kiosk user
<ogra> no
<ogra> ldm isnt designeds for local logins
<cbx33> ogra: looking sweet
<cbx33> got my reboot button in there yet :p
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> nag nag nag
<ogra> cbx33, no buttons at all atm
<ogra> all that stuff moved to a context (right click) menu ...
<cbx33> ahh right
<ogra> and yes, it has a reboot button, but no code behind it yet ...
<cbx33> ahh right
<ogra> only basic login functionallity is there ...
<ogra> i want a popup to select a different server as well ...
<cbx33> you're doing an amazing job
<cbx33> oooh that's a cool idea
<cbx33> ogra: you have to design your own widgets?
<ogra> right
<ogra> you cant put standard widgets on a drawing area
<ogra> and i didnt want to load to many python modules ...
<ogra> so i have to design buttons and entry fioelds via cairo
<ogra> just a bit of measuring fontsizes and positions and rectangle drawing :)
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> what about like the cursor etc?
<cbx33> i mean for text editing
<cbx33> and passwords
<ogra> you draw a vertical line ...
<ogra> (for a cursor)
<cbx33> can you define a "text entry" type thing
<ogra> and for passwords you count the length and create a string opf starts or dots with the same length
<cbx33> sounds like hard work
<ogra> textentry: draw a rectangle ... measure teh length of the string, show it if non zero, draw a vertical line (cursor) behind the last letter
<ogra> if stringlength > rectangle width, cut off the displayed string
<cbx33> do you "draw" the letter too?
<ogra> thats it
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> right i see
<ogra> youi draw all pieces
<cbx33> phew....
<cbx33> so you have a keypressed event handler
<cbx33> and that adds letters?
<ogra> that reruns the above loop
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> i get it
<cbx33> interesting
<cbx33> and i suppose there is a mouse handler too?
<ogra> if the rectangles would be paint, a small tower of stacked labels would grow in the middle of your screen
<cbx33> so you could create your own cairo widgets
<ogra> right
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<ogra> well, i use the handlers on the window ...
<cbx33> i see
<ogra> thast easier ...
<highvoltage> sounds like a complete LDM UI overhaul
<cbx33> it is
<cbx33> is this for feisty
<cbx33> ?
<jsgotangco> what is this????? LDM in cairo
<jsgotangco> woooo
<highvoltage> cairo in LDM, more like it :)
<jsgotangco> ekk who did this drop shadow
<highvoltage> I'm sure that will change before release
<highvoltage> it's not so much a drop shadow
<highvoltage> more of an evil glow
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<jsgotangco> it looks to bright it washes away the effect
<cbx33> does cairo do the gradient?
<cbx33> does this have an impact on the low end specification?
<cbx33> ping ogra two seconds of your time when you have a sec
<cbx33> bout the book chapter
<cbx33> how much manual configuration is required when trying to install Edubuntu and LTSP on an already present Ubuntu system
<juliux> cbx33, you have to run ltsp-build-client and to change the dhcpd3.conf to your settings
<cbx33> what about fuse?
<cbx33> for local devices?
<juliux> good point i should test this tomorrow
<cbx33> heh....probably be too late by then ;)
<cbx33> for me anyway
<cbx33> juliux, on the desktop cd
<cbx33> when you boot up at the beginning, do you get the option to install as a workstation?
<cbx33> or is it just start and install?
<pitux> hola reinaldo
<juliux> cbx33, oh good point i have no idea
<pscheie> is there a way during bootup to turn off the splash screen so I can see what the system is doing?
<sbalneav> pscheie: yeah, remove the "splash" and "quiet" option from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<pscheie> so, there's no way to do it on the fly, during bootup?
<pscheie> or if I turn off quiet, will removing the splash be an option?
<pscheie> most of the time the splash is okay, just sometimes I'd like to be able to see what's happening
<pscheie> for troubleshooting, etc.
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> woot
<willvdl> hey cbx33
<cbx33> howz it going willvdl
<willvdl> it's all good. all busy
<willvdl> my potatoes are boiling though...
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> mine too
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> can anyone tell me how I can unmount a share that pam created/mounted?
<Petaris> smbumount doesn't seem to work
<Petaris> I can do a umount thought
<Petaris> thing is I need to umount every user share (mounted by pam during login) and not touch the other mounts
<Petaris> that way I can delete user home directories with a script set in a cron job
<Petaris> pam is supposed to unmount them when the user logs out but  it doesn't
<juliux> cbx33, are you using ltsp in your school?
<Petaris> juliux: I use LTSP in my schools
<Petaris> :)
<juliux> Petaris, cool
<juliux> we tested a lot of hardware settings at the weekend
<juliux> and now i want to compare the hardware for servers;)
<Petaris> cool
<juliux> to see if your test resualts are normal results
<Petaris> I use dual opteron boxes with 4 GB of RAM
<Petaris> dual Gbit nics
<Petaris> and RAID 1 SATA
<juliux> nice
<Petaris> right now each server handles 25 clients but I think they could handle about 50 just fine
<juliux> we played around with a pentium D system and coreduo computers
<juliux> but the coreduos are realy slow
<Petaris> ahh
<juliux> on the pentium D we had with 15clients a load from 5!
<Petaris> what are your client boxes?
<juliux> that was only a test network;)
<juliux> we had p4 clients and notebooks and normal thinclients
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> I ordered custom clients (nothing speacial) with no moving parts for my labs
<juliux> we get 20 p4 systems for free for the weekend
<Petaris> cool
<Petaris> I need to write a script
<juliux> have fun
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> if AD and PAM would play nicer together I wouldn't have to
<Petaris> :/
<Petaris> I wish I knew shell scripting better
<juliux> hehe,
<Petaris> I know what I need to do
<Petaris> but I am not sure how to tell the script how to do it for each user in /home/ except for some that must be excluded
<Petaris> I know the excludes should be in a an array or list of some sort to bechecked against
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> excludes=( ) might do that
<juliux> you can add all user to an extra group than you can do it for all users in this group
<juliux> but i think that is a diry solution
<Petaris> right, but they are AD users
<Petaris> not local
<Petaris> :/
<juliux> ahh
<cbx33> juliux, no we're not using LTSP yet....at least not to any large extent
<cbx33> the Desktop CD is really just a standalone install right?
<Petaris> cbx33: it seems to be the LTSP server right off the bat
<Petaris> I installed it the other day
<Petaris> 6.10 that is
<cbx33> the Desktop CD doesn;t insstall the LTSP server
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> doesn't setup a client root anyway
<Petaris> it did for mine
<cbx33> really?
<Petaris> and all I wanted was a standalone
<cbx33> I was certain it didn't setup the chroot
<cbx33> ogra, can you confirm?
<Petaris> unless I grabbed the wrong iso
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> anyone else know?
<Petaris> I grabbed edubuntu-6.10-insall-i386.iso
<Petaris> er, install
<cbx33> yeh, that's not the desktop one
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> ok then ignore me
<Petaris> :)
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> never Petaris
<cbx33> howa rey ou anyway?
<Petaris> not bad
<Petaris> trying to write a script to solve a problem
<Petaris> but I since I am not very knowlagable about programming I am having difficulties trying to get it to do what I want
<Petaris> How have you been?
<cbx33> yeh good
<cbx33> what's the script do?
<Petaris> well its supposed to crawl through /home and unmount the Staff and Students shares in each AD user's local home dir then rm -rf the dir and move to the next one, but it needs to look at a list to see which dirs to skip doing that too
<Petaris> I have the names of the dirs to skip in a array named "excludes" but I don't know how to tell it to exclude them
<Petaris> cbx33: http://phpfi.com/205278
<Petaris> there is what I have so far
<Petaris> and yes, I know $user doesn't exist in that script
<Petaris> I am piecing it together out of other scripts I have done in the past
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so is the excludes show hostnames?
<Petaris> no, the excludes are the dir names under /home that I want to keep
<cbx33> ahhh i see
<cbx33> sorry
<Petaris> that I don't want this script to play with
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> so basically if $useris equal to one of those
<cbx33> don't do it?
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> but to every other folder in that dir do it
<Petaris> and don't complain if those shares aren't there or if they aren't mounted
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> once traversing each dir in /home/
<cbx33> then traverse each element in excludes
<Petaris> I want to dump the local home/profile but not the files in their network home
<cbx33> and compare it to what you already have
<cbx33> if the two match, ignore
<Petaris> then make an array out of that
<Petaris> *output
<cbx33> so basically....
<Petaris> and run the functions on that arrya?
* cbx33 gets ready to write a pseudo srcipt
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> 2 secs
<Petaris> ok
<cbx33> http://phpfi.com/205294
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> so the flags are marking the dirs that are not in excludes
<Petaris> ok, let me incorporate this and post again
<cbx33> the flag just says.....no i havn't found a match yet
<cbx33> as soon as it does.....it makes a note
<cbx33> so when you check after checking the home dir against all the excludes you have a record of if it was found or not
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> or anyone else who knows who to setup and install an LTSP environment inside Ubuntu
<stgraber> can't you simply install ltsp-server or ltsp-server-standalone
<stgraber> and then do : ltsp-build-chroot ?
<cbx33> i don;t know can you
<cbx33> sbalneav, can you confirm this?
<sbalneav> Yep
<stgraber> it "should" be possible to do that way, personally I never tried (I just remember the ltsp-build-chroot from Dapper)
<sbalneav> That's what you do.
<Petaris> cbx33: http://phpfi.com/205295
<cbx33> sbalneav, presumably there is a fair amount of manual configuration
<sbalneav> In addition to ltsp-update-kernels, and ltsp-update-sshkeys.
<cbx33> could you spend me a few secs in a pm?
<sbalneav> no, actually, it's pretty easy.
<sbalneav> ogra, Mr Wizard Man, makes it all automagical.
<stgraber> cbx33: lts.conf and dhcpd.conf should be the only files you have to edit
<cbx33> what's the diff between ltsp-server standalone and ltsp-server ?
<cbx33> ogra, is a Wizard
<stgraber> As I understand -standalone include dhcpd and some more stuff (from the package description)
<stgraber> so ltsp-server should be for an existing network with DHCP already set
<cbx33> ahh i see
<stgraber> ltsp-server-standalone depends on ltsp-server + dhcpd
<stgraber> so it's just += DHCP
<cbx33> ahh isee
<cbx33> thanks stgraber
<stgraber> np :)
<cbx33> Petaris, looks like it's getting there
<cbx33> do you have a test directory you can try it out on?
<Petaris> no, but I will create one
<Petaris> in /opt
<Petaris> er, /opt/home
<cbx33> good good
<cbx33> always a good idea to test it first ;)
<Petaris> so I don't fsck things
<cbx33> hehe
<Petaris> yep
* cbx33 always does the same
<Petaris> hrm, how can I reference where $user is?
<Petaris> do a $dir?
<cbx33> what do you mean?
<Petaris> to reference the directory name (current)
<cbx33> so you want to find what that dir is?
* cbx33 is slow this evening
<Petaris> well I need to so that I can unmount the shares and delete it
<cbx33> give me an example
<Petaris> so  I crawl though and see a dir named "testu"
<Petaris> and I need to umount /home/testu/Staff
<cbx33> right
<Petaris> and umount /home/testu/Students
<cbx33> testu is the name of the current user?
<Petaris> then rm -rf /home/testu
<cbx33> or the current machine?
<Petaris> of the current dir in /home that it is working on
<cbx33> pwd
<cbx33> run that command will give you /home/dir
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> but that would only work if you were in that dir
<cbx33> yes
<Petaris> hrm
<cbx33> i think I'm still not getting it
<cbx33> sorry
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> so how does it know which directory it is working on right now?
<Petaris> we go through all of the directories and compare them to my excludes list
<Petaris> and then do something to them
<cbx33> right i get it
<cbx33> well seeing as you know the current dir
<Petaris> but we can't do something to them if we don't know which dir it is
<cbx33> which is dir
<cbx33> you can use that
<cbx33> /home/$dir
<cbx33> can't you?
<Petaris> we need to step through the list of all dirs flagged 0
<cbx33> no no...
<cbx33> the way it works is it does them as it goes along
<cbx33> once it has finished comparing the current dir to the exclude list....
<cbx33> it will inspect the flag
<cbx33> if it's set it'll delete etc
<cbx33> sbalneav, so....
<cbx33> would it be.....
<cbx33> install ltsp-server-standalone
<cbx33> rund the build client
<cbx33> run the update kernels
<cbx33> and the ssh keys
<cbx33> and you're done?
<sbalneav> Yeppers.
<cbx33> oh and edit the dhcp
<sbalneav> yep
<cbx33> and the lts
<sbalneav> Yeah, unless they're doing something "funky", the default lts.conf should do 'em.
<cbx33> thanks sbalneav
<cbx33> oh ok awesome
<cbx33> and if they already have a dhcp server
<cbx33> just do ltsp-server right?
<stgraber> yes and configure the dhcpd.conf of the dhcp server manually to point on the LTSP server (next-server and filename)
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> does the ltsp-server pull in ssh server too?
<stgraber> yes, it depends on openssh-server
<stgraber> hmm, well more recommends than depends
<cbx33> ahh
<ajmitch> morning
<stgraber> hi
<cbx33> hey ajmitch
<cbx33> sbalneav, got a sec?
<sbalneav> Yep!
<cbx33> does the desktop CD install ltsp server at all?
<sbalneav> Whaaaasuuuuup?
<cbx33> Whaaaaasuuuup homie
<sbalneav> Hmmm.
<sbalneav> That I DON'T know.
<cbx33> grats
<cbx33> have to check that with ogra
<cbx33> anyone know how the 2nd CD will work?
<cbx33> sbalneav, swap server
<cbx33> how does it work?
<sbalneav> The swapping server gets installed as part of ltsp-server-standalone.
<sbalneav> it's basically just a shell script wrapper to nbs-server.
<sbalneav> it gets fired off from inetd.conf.
<ajmitch> uses nbd?
<sbalneav> yep.
<cbx33> ok
<ajmitch> useful
<cbx33> so it all gets setup automatically
<sbalneav> Yes indeed.
<cbx33> nice
<stgraber> As I understood about the 2nd cdrom it will mainly contain some extras softwares and language pack and will be added to the sources.list
<cbx33> ahhh right
<cbx33> so if you go apt-get intsall
<stgraber> then once the system installed you will be called to insert cdrom1 or cdrom2 depending of the one the software is on
<cbx33> it'll ask you to put in the second CD
<cbx33> right ok
<stgraber> like with the 7CD Debian :)
<highvoltage> boo!
<stgraber> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi stgraber!
<Petaris> cbx33: with your help and a few others on different channels I got the script working
<cbx33> nice
<Petaris> thanks for your help
<Petaris> :)
<cbx33> anytime Petaris
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight!
<edubuntugirl> Goodnight, highvoltage, have fun counting your electric sheep!
<cbx33> nn highvoltage
<highvoltage> nn cbx33
<Petaris> later all
<cbx33> ping Burgwork 2 sec question
<BillMeLater> Want to compile list of actual edubuntu usage in school districts...
<BillMeLater> ..any input from here?
<LaserJock> BillMeLater: can you explain what you want a bit more?
<MagicFab> Hi - where can I find out information about using local USB storage in Edubuntu Edgy clients ?
#edubuntu 2007-02-20
<lewmnik_> magicfab: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> any progress on Tcm?
<juliux> hey Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day juliux
<cbx33> hi Yagisan
<cbx33> howz it going
<Yagisan> cbx33, rather crap actually
<Yagisan> cbx33, about two weeks left to fnd a new place to live
<Yagisan> and only dumps are available :/
<Yagisan> cbx33, and yourself ?
<BillMeLater> good morning
<cbx33> sorry to hear that Yagisan
<cbx33> I'm just going home - I'll chat to you when i get back if you're still around
* cbx33 thought the meeting was today :S
<RichEd> hey cbx33 : it's tamarra ... and note that ogra and i will be travelling ... so it will be hosted by willvdl
<cbx33> right
<willvdl> cbx33, I thought today was monday...
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 slaps willvdl 5
<willvdl> ow
<BillMeLater> this place is violent
<willvdl> we learn the hard way
<cbx33> not always
<BillMeLater> skool of hard nox
* cbx33 hopes everyone realised it was a hi5
<BillMeLater> of course
* BillMeLater wears skeptical look
<BillMeLater> dumb question: people here work in school districts?
* cbx33 works in a school as an IT manager
<RichEd> BillMeLater: some people ... educators, techies, developers, university students ... a range of peops
<BillMeLater> I'm a school board member who wants to evangelize FOSS
<BillMeLater> looking for look-see-it-works-great cases.
<cbx33> ahh i see
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well I can give you one, we use jabber server at my school
<cbx33> all the staff have IM
<BillMeLater> So I'll lurk.
<cbx33> and can message each other
<BillMeLater> very good. ..
<BillMeLater> where r u?
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=162
<cbx33> UK
<BillMeLater> I'm in Lawrence Township, New Jersey, US
<BillMeLater> Our admin wants to upgrade HW so we can be ready for Vista, natch...
<BillMeLater> u get the picture
<cbx33> yuk
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> better to stay where you are
<cbx33> for at least another year
<cbx33> point him to the BECTA report about vista and office 2007
<BillMeLater> Oh - they're in no hurry - they just figure that's where we are headed because...
<RichEd> BillMeLater: i've got a great US advocate for you ... will need yout email to send
<BillMeLater> well...
<BillMeLater> just because!
<RichEd> *your
<BillMeLater> I'm all (virtual) ears
<RichEd> he was k12ltsp and is now a rabid edubuntu supporter ... mixed environment of MS and Linux ... he's a teacher and an admin
<BillMeLater> sounds like the ammo I need
<RichEd> BillMeLater: see /msg window
<BillMeLater> got it - I'm a lil slow
<BillMeLater> thank u
<BillMeLater> I want to accumulate a large group of references
<TeePOG> afternoon gents
<BillMeLater> mornin' mate
* TeePOG checks clock
<TeePOG> *phew*
<TeePOG> not from where i'm sitting
<TeePOG> or i'd have this day ahead of me
<BillMeLater> I shoulda said "Yo!"
<TeePOG> instead of almost over
<TeePOG> :-D
<TeePOG> indeed
<RichEd> it's the US time TeePOG : they're behind us like on the koyot agreement ;)
<BillMeLater> skary
<RichEd> *koyoto
<TeePOG> yar RichEd true
* BillMeLater slaps forehead
<TeePOG> kyoto?
* BillMeLater wheezes and gasps
* RichEd has to dash out ... back in 30
<TeePOG> ciao RichEd
<BillMeLater> Nagoya
<BillMeLater> c ya
<RichEd> TeePOG: the please don't kill the planet with your 18 cylinder cars and disposable consumerism
<TeePOG> yah
<TeePOG> toxic culture
* BillMeLater goes outside to shut off his idling SUV
<RichEd> but no offense intended towards BillMeLater ... even if the nick does imply use the resources now and BillMeLater (or my grandkids)
<RichEd> :)
<BillMeLater> I can't get a break...
* RichEd ducks out to avoid being nuked or invaded or put on a terrorist black list
<BillMeLater> I live in the Rodney Dangerfield of nations
<RichEd> lol
<BillMeLater> gotta tap your fones first
<juliux> hey pirast
<pirast> hi juliux
<RichEd> ping BillMeLater : i'll need your email address now'ish ... leaving for a trip in a few hours
<BillMeLater> bill@cosi.com - see chat win for info on spam filter bypass
<BillMeLater> RichEd, see chat window for info on spam filter bypass
<RichEd> okily dokily
<BillMeLater> thanx, Ned
<RichEd> the chat window is blank apart from my own text earlier ?
<BillMeLater> hmm ... I will email you in 2 mins
<RichEd> you must not be identified to the nick server, I mean you must, but right not, you prolly aren't
<BillMeLater> true - I don't IRC enuf to stay familiar with the rigamarole
<BillMeLater> RichEd, I emailed u
<RichEd> BillMeLater: thanks ... will check now
<RichEd> BillMeLater: replied with 2 names & addresses
<BillMeLater> thank u
<bddebian> Heya
<barktpolar> Hello Edubuntu Users
<barktpolar> Which is better for dial-up, GNOME-PPP or KPPP?
<barktpolar> !ubotu dial-up
<ubotu> You want to connect via dial-up? Read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto
<cbx33> ogra, is there any difference in the ubiquity install in edubunut and ubuntu
<cbx33> also does the desktop install install any LTSP/dhcp stuff?
<willvdl> cbx33, I doubt the desktop does any of that
<willvdl> not sure about ubiquity
<juliux> highvoltage, ping
<Burgwork> cbx33: need that question answered?
<cbx33> Burgwork, which one?
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 is so deep in stuff now I think my brain is about to fall out
<cbx33> Burgwork, oh the one about the desktop cd?
<Burgwork> I have no idea
<cbx33> oh you were just asking if I needed that question answered
<cbx33> not giving me the answer
<cbx33> I see now
<cbx33> did you get my emails?
<Burgwork> cbx33: yes, but crazy busy right now
<cbx33> np np
<cbx33> just checking wasn't looking for a reply or anything ;)
#edubuntu 2007-02-21
<lns> Hey everyone!
<lns> Can anyone give me some starter troubleshooting steps to see why a PXE booting client isn't getting past the TFTP boot line (after it acquires a DHCP addy)?
<lns> I've verified TFTP server is working from the same workstation booted into windows
<lns> (This is Ubuntu/muecow btw, not edubuntu)
<lns> (used instructions at http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_Install_MueKow_on_Ubuntu)
<lns> am also using Windows NT4 DHCP server (no service pack I believe)...I actually think this is the problem...it's probably not passing the arguments correctly, as some web sites say the DHCP implementations are badly broken before SP3
<lns> ugh
<lns> I hate windows
<cliebow_> lns:so you have options 17 66 and 67 set in windows?
<lns> cliebow_, yep
<lns> 017 = /opt/ltsp/i386
<lns> 066 = ubuntultspserveripaddress
<lns> 067 = ltsp/pxelinux.0
<cliebow_> and netstat -anp|grep ":69" shows xinetd listening
<lns> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:69              0.0.0.0:*                          4930/inetd
<cliebow_> so check that /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.o exists
<lns> k
<cliebow_> or is it one level down in i286
<cliebow_> heh i386
<lns> it is in i386
<lns> ...hmmmmmm
<lns> hehe
<cliebow_> cool..so alter
<lns> can i create a symlink?
<cliebow_> err..probably
<lns> maybe safer to alter dhcp conf?
<lns> i'll try dhcp conf firsty
<cliebow_> well//option 67
<lns> first*
<lns> yeah
<cliebow_> the early versions were as you have it..later versions went to i486
<cliebow_> cripes!
<cliebow_> time to turn on the lights
<lns> hahaha
<lns> that's funny..in this server room the lights keep turning off every 30 seconds if i'm sitting down
<cliebow_> figures 8~)
<lns> =p
<lns> hold on
<lns> thx btw
<cliebow_> hanging
<cliebow_> btw: i m bootign "some ppc clients via windows..and all my netvistas
<lns> still not working.... "PXE-E32 PXE Open Timeout"
<lns> after it obtains a valid IP via DHCP
<lns> err... TFTP Open Timeout
<lns> sorry
<cliebow_> dang:btw:watch out for root-path..windows pads it with 000
<lns> really
<lns> is there a workaround?
<lns> this is NT4 (no servicepack applied i believe)
<lns> ugh
<cliebow_> yeah..simlink /opt/ltsp/i386 to /opt/ltsdp/i386000
<cliebow_> more or less
<lns> reeeeaaaally...hahaha... ok hold please ;)
<cliebow_> wont solve your problem
<cliebow_> but..
<lns> oh
<cliebow_> guess you'll have to run wireshark on the  linux server see what is going on
<lns> oh weird
<lns> ok
<lns> on another (similar but newer model) machine (compaq ipaq) it's actually giving me a "Only absolute filenames allowed" during tftp..so it *is* hitting the server at least
<lns> gimme a sec
<lns> WOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
<lns> =)
<lns> must be a bug in the older ipaq's PXE version
<lns> cuz all the newer ones are booting right in!
<lns> *dance of joy*
<cliebow_> lns:YEAHHH..i have a few caunkus pxe cards too..
<cliebow_> so you get a login?
<cliebow_> the root-path WAS padded?
<lns> yep
<lns> not sure if that was what did it or not (padding)
<lns> the old clients are still hanging at tftp
<lns> but the newer ones are booting up...although in 75Hz monitor mode instead of 60
<lns> it auto adjusts to 60 if i ctl+alt+f1 then f7
<lns> kinda weird
<cliebow_> they are two different operations..first dhcp gets filename...second dhcvp gets filename
<cliebow_> gets toor-path i mean
<lns> root?
<cliebow_> cripes1
<lns> lol
<lns> lights man lights! =p
<cliebow_> gets root-path i mean
<lns> yeah
<lns> well the older ipaqs aren't getting past initial tftp
<lns> they DO get a valid dhcp ip though
<lns> i'm guessing i'll have to upgrade the BIOS
<lns> in each of the old ones
<lns> if possible...
<cliebow_> well you are on a rol.l now..good luck
<lns> thanks so much cliebow_ !!
<lns> i love this irc room
<lns> channel...argh
<lns> haha
<cliebow_> i hang on #ltsp as well..
<cliebow_> my pleasure!
<lns> i'm sure i will be, more and more
<lns> hopefully this 'pilot' at an elementary school is gonna go district wide
<lns> getting the clients to boot right now is a HUGE step forward
<cliebow_> lots of the original devs are in #ltsp..i stand on shoulders of giants
<cliebow_> i am also in schools..twelve..
<lns> the IT administrator of the district is pitting Ubuntu LTSP against Windows Terminal services at another school and seeing how they compare
<lns> wow nice!
<lns> how's the admin/support for 12 schools?
<lns> i'm only at one other place right now, an after-school place
<cliebow_> ltsp will blow tws away as far as bandwidth is concerned\
<lns> good.
<cliebow_> i do most remotley with nx
<lns> That's what I told him today too, NX would be great for remote access by kids from home
<cliebow_> yes..that too..
<lns> though i read somewhere online today that ltsp/ssh compares well in bandwidth with nx...?
<cliebow_> i have not tried it in bulk so dont know how server looad will be affected
<lns> cool
<lns> ok off to check some stuff
<cliebow_> lns: keep in back of your head..alternate dhcp for clients with etherboot
<lns> have you seen lots of older clients with etherboot only?
<cliebow_> only started using pxe last week
<cliebow_> etherboot rocks
<cliebow_> effortless double-bot
<cliebow_> effortless double-boot
<lns> really
<lns> i only have exp. with pxe
<lns> seems meukow/ltsp is made primarily for pxe
<lns> havent tried etherboot
<cliebow_> oh yeah..most all of my stuff is dunpster-diving stuff
<cliebow_> with alternate dhcp..you can jump right in the middle of a windows network and never touch windows dhcp
<lns> nice
<lns> =)_
<lns> alright i'm out for the day! thanks!!
<TeePOG> morning guys
<juliux> morning
<barktpolar> I have been trying to get my USB Hard Drive to work and whenever I try to compile the driver, I get this message: http://pastebin.ca/365932 Can anyone help me with that please?
<juliux> hi willvdl
<willvdl> hi guys
<willvdl> No RichEd or ogra for meeting today
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<cbx33> was looking for you
<willvdl> hi. have fever so my head is swimming
<willvdl> wassup?
<juliux> willvdl, go back to your bed ;)
<willvdl> I'd love to but I have back-to-back meetings for the next two days and need to wrap stuff up before I leave in March
<willvdl> Argentina! 3 Weeks!
<cliebow_>  Cool:working vacation?
<willvdl> vacation. wedding. more vacation
<cbx33> willvdl: unfortunately I won';t be in meeting
<cbx33> I'm about to leave to go home
<willvdl> cbx33, I leave on 28 feb and am back on 21 march
<willvdl> so I won't be at next one. anyway I'll keep the fires burning
<juliux> willvdl, have fun in argentina
<willvdl> I'll be around from Monday to WEdnesday at least
<willvdl> thanks
<cbx33> sorry willvdl
<willvdl> ============Edubuntu Meeting in 5 mins ? ===================
<willvdl> #ubuntu-meeting
* highvoltage arrives back at office just in time for edubuntu meeting
<cbx33> by my clock it's 12:05
<willvdl> so it is
<willvdl> ====== meeting starts ======
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> its a miracle
<jsgotangco> i am in an edubuntu meeting again
<cliebow_> #edubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> cliebow_: #ubuntu-meeting
<cliebow_>  got it 8~)
<cliebow_> id like to pop in from school..
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: willvdl++ [ great wikipage changes ] 
<willvdl> took a while :)
<willvdl> still need to tie up some loose ends
<willvdl> highvoltage, who you got in JHB?
<highvoltage> willvdl: what do you mean?
<willvdl> inkululeku? only Hilton in Jozi?
<highvoltage> ah, there's others in Jozi too
<willvdl> any tech people?
<highvoltage> there's Kenny
<highvoltage> and another guy that recently joined, I keep forgetting his name
<highvoltage> they mostly work on the DD's
<willvdl> DD?
<highvoltage> Digital Doorways
<willvdl> ah. anyhoo. I gotoo lie down. catch ya monday
<highvoltage> not feeling well?
<nwebmaster>  
<nwebmaster> Hello!
<nwebmaster> I'm looking for someone advice me to use ubuntu plz
<Kamping_Kaiser> i sugest you state your problem
<nwebmaster> i'm newbie on ubuntu
<nwebmaster> Do you have anything advice me on ubuntu
<nwebmaster> newbie on ubuntu but no newbie on Unix
* cbx33 guesses the meeting is over
<cbx33> :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> nwebmaster, watch for the no root account, otherwise not much to worry about
<bddebian> Heya
<blinky_ghost> hi can anybody tell me how do i get usplash working with ltsp clients?
<a5benwillis> Hello?
<a5benwillis> This is my first time here and I have a question about EduBuntu in an Education environment
<cbx33> go for it a5benwillis
<cbx33> blinky_ghost, what's up
<a5benwillis> Has anyone been able to use Edubuntu with NCP authentication against a Netware Server using the pam_ncp_auth.so module?
<cbx33> a5benwillis, not me
<a5benwillis> I can authenticate my gdm sessions locally against NDS but the SSH side which is required for the thin client refuses to work.
<blinky_ghost> cbx3, bootsplash doesn't work with ltsp clients
<a5benwillis> I've searched the web for weeks but can find nor info on this with Edubuntu. It seems to work well with other LTSP systems though.
<a5benwillis> I guess that  Edubuntu is the only one to use ecryped/authenticates ssh sessions for thin clients.
<a5benwillis> Since I am new here. What time is typically the busiest here? Should I ask my question again later in the day?
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> ask now
<cbx33> sbalneav is a guru
<a5benwillis> i did
<a5benwillis> oh ok
* cbx33 is ducking out for some tcm love
<a5benwillis> Has anyone been able to use Edubuntu with NCP authentication against a Netware Server using the pam_ncp_auth.so module?
<a5benwillis> I can authenticate my gdm sessions locally against NDS but the SSH side which is required for the thin client refuses to work.
<a5benwillis> I've searched the web for weeks but can find nor info on this with Edubuntu. It seems to work well with other LTSP systems though.
<a5benwillis>  I guess that  Edubuntu is the only one to use ecryped/authenticates ssh sessions for thin clients.
<blinky_ghost> hi can anybody tell me how do i get usplash working with ltsp clients?
<sbalneav> a5benwillis: Hmm, maybe something with the pam stuff for ssh, let me look.
<sbalneav> blinky_ghost: um, I think you can just:
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> mount -t proc proc /proc
<sbalneav> apt-get install edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<sbalneav> then exit
<sbalneav> and ltsp-update-kernels
<blinky_ghost> ok, i'm gonna try
<blinky_ghost> thanks
<a5benwillis> sbalneav: Thanks, would you like to know what Ive tried with the pam.d/ssh file?
<blinky_ghost> sbalneav, it's saying now that i'm out of range. i've changed the default to vga=791 and nothing
<a5benwillis> sbalneav: I've placed this lineat the top of pam.d/ssh; "auth    sufficient      /lib/security/pam_ncp_auth.so -d -a -u10000,50000,f,c ndsserver=10.10.50.1:a5do.adm.acsd5 -a -L -zATX -A
<a5benwillis> "
<blinky_ghost> sbalneav, now it's working with vga=788 :)
<blinky_ghost> thanks
<sbalneav> np
<a5benwillis> When attempting to SSH I get a password prompt, which fails. I then look in the /var/log/auth.log fileand I see where authentication was attempted but fails on the password.
<sbalneav> a5benwillis: never actually used the ncp authentication.  Can you just ssh into the box as a user?
<sbalneav> i.e. ssh localhost?
<a5benwillis> yes, local user authentication works fine.
<a5benwillis> I can even ssh in remotly as a local user
<sbalneav> but if you ssh in as a ncp user it fails.
<a5benwillis> But, with NCPand remote authentication. The pam_ncp_auth.so file authenticates and creates the user on the server at the same time.
<a5benwillis> yes
<a5benwillis> This authentication and account creation works fine with a local x session login.
<a5benwillis> But with Edubunutu's ssh'd xsession I cant log in to a thin client obviously.
<a5benwillis> Because the initial ssh connection fails first.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> I realize that this isnt a simple problem. I havebeen unable to find help anywhere. I had hoped that another engineer in the education field would be in there at some point.
<sbalneav> Well, I'm familiar with LDAP authentication, but I've never used the ncp auth module.  Does the module have a debug option that you can crank up debugging, and see what it thinks it's doing?  I know the ldap auth module has one.
<sbalneav> Barring that, tcpdump's always an option.
<a5benwillis> yes, I use the -d option and it logs to /var/log/auth.log
<sbalneav> What does it say in there?
<sbalneav> other than "failed"
<a5benwillis> gonna try to paste
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:20 EduBuntuLTSP sshd[8054] : (pam_unix) check pass; user unknown
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:20 EduBuntuLTSP sshd[8054] : (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=a5do-benwillis.acsd5.local
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:21 EduBuntuLTSP sshd[8054] : Failed password for invalid user di from 10.10.15.1 port 56548 ssh2
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:25 EduBuntuLTSP pam_ncp_auth[8054] : using server 10.10.50.1 ctxs a5do.adm.acsd5 group (null)
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:25 EduBuntuLTSP pam_ncp_auth[8054] : nw_create_verify_conn_to_tree: trying to resolve  di.a5do.adm.acsd5
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:25 EduBuntuLTSP pam_ncp_auth[8054] : trying to login as di.a5do.adm.acsd5
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:27 EduBuntuLTSP pam_ncp_auth[8054] : Invalid password (-669) when trying to login
<a5benwillis> Feb 21 07:42:27 EduBuntuLTSP pam_ncp_auth[8054] : final PAM retval 7
<a5benwillis> the passwordis correct obviously.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> sbalneav: Thanks for trying, Im gonna camp out here today and see how many people I can ask :-)
<sbalneav> the ruser= line is interesting
<sbalneav> sorry, got called away
<sbalneav> I'd expect the ruser= to be the user attempting to auth.
<a5benwillis> no problem, thanks again for trying
<sbalneav> the fact that it's empty seems wierd.
<a5benwillis> I think I can explain that
<a5benwillis> the first authentication attempt is madevia pam_unix. The account doesn not exist so it can;t retrieve the attributes.
<a5benwillis> the second (stacked) authentication attempt happens with pam_ncp_auth
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> theubuntu chan is to busy to even ask a serious questionin....
<sbalneav> Hmm
<sbalneav> a5benwillis: Maybe you need to append a "try_first_pass" onto the ncp module.
<sbalneav> just about any pam module should support that.
<a5benwillis> i'll try it
<a5benwillis> brb
<a5benwillis> isnt it use_first_pass
<a5benwillis> its ignored by this module.
<a5benwillis> per docs
<sbalneav> Well, there's try_ and use_
<a5benwillis> does it go after the module on the auth line?
<a5benwillis> nm
<a5benwillis> hello
<a5benwillis> sbalneav: Heres my /etc/pam.d/ssh file
<a5benwillis> http://pastebin.com/885935
<cbx33> ping juliux
<juliux> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> should have a deb soon ;)
<juliux> cbx33, cool
<cbx33> just pbuilding
<a5benwillis> Has anyone been able to use Edubuntu with NCP authentication against a Netware Server using the pam_ncp_auth.so module?
<a5benwillis> sbalneav: Anymoreideas?
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> howz it going dude?
<LaserJock> busy as ever
<LaserJock> was on the computer for 14hrs yesterday
<cbx33> yikes
<LaserJock> 'til 2am
<cbx33> you sound like me now
<LaserJock> except I actually can/want/need sleep :-)
<cbx33> then do it
<LaserJock> no time
<LaserJock> I just got to work
<a5benwillis> Has anyone been able to use Edubuntu with NCP authentication against a Netware Server using the pam_ncp_auth.so module?
<cbx33> a5benwillis, why not post to the mailing list?
<a5benwillis> tried
<a5benwillis> no joy
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> sorry dude
<a5benwillis> it seems to be a complicated or high level issue
<cbx33> indeed
<LaserJock> darn, were's ogra when I need him
<a5benwillis> Has anyone been able to use Edubuntu with NCP authentication against a Netware Server using the pam_ncp_auth.so module?
<cbx33> LaserJock, ogra's in italy
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<LaserJock> darn, for how long?
<cbx33> just today I think
<cbx33> he's there with RichEd
<LaserJock> cbx33: is there any demand for CAD apps in your school?
<cbx33> yes
<LaserJock> have you used qcad?
<cbx33> no
<LaserJock> I got it's MIR approved today
<LaserJock> but pitti said that he didn't like that it doesn't have gettext support
<LaserJock> which means it's won't work with Rossetta
<cbx33> ahhh yes
<LaserJock> I think we want qcad, but I wanted to ask ogra for sure
<LaserJock> but in any case pitti approved it
<cbx33> cool
<edistar> I have a question, I bet you think I'm completely stupid, but I'm only a beginner ;) I have experienced a speed boost with the server-kernel, what are the disadvantages of this kernel?
<edistar> for otherwise why shouldn't everyone use it?
<edistar> can't anyone advise me?
<edistar> or is it OT?
<edistar> sry
<LaserJock> usually the generic kernel has more compatibility
<a5benwillis> hello
<a5benwillis> I need help with getting edubuntu's ssh to authenticate thin clients using the pam_ncp_auth.so module.
<cbx33> a5benwillis, ajmitch or ogra maybe able to help you
<a5benwillis> Can anyone point me towards someone with experience in this area? Specifically authenticatino with Novell Netware
<cbx33> but ogra isn't here right now
<a5benwillis> cbx33: Hello again, tired of hearing from me yet? :-)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> never ;)
<cbx33> trying to help you
<cbx33> but as I know NOTHING about it
<cbx33> I'm buck passing
<a5benwillis> I know this has to be able to be done. Netware is still used heavily in education and Im sure that theres a need for this
<a5benwillis> I have about 6000 workstations, all of which log into Netware NDS.
<cbx33> wow
<a5benwillis> Plus 16k users that I need to authenticate when loggin into this clients
<cbx33> i can see why you're persistent in asking this quewastion now ;)
<a5benwillis> Yeah, I've been working on this for a few weeks. I cant find any help on this online. Only in general LTSP software. Not for Edubuntu
<cbx33> well Edubuntu uses general LTSP
<a5benwillis> I guess Edubuntu's the only one that uses the SSH session back to the LTSP server.
<cbx33> i thought that's how LTSP working in general
<a5benwillis> I can get the authentication to work fine at the servers login but not the SSH sessions from the thin clients.
<a5benwillis> maybe...
<cbx33> well
<a5benwillis> I have seen several how-tos for this but none mention the SSH issue
<cbx33> the ssh.....shouoldn't need to authenticate against anything else other than the edubuntu server
<a5benwillis> right.
<a5benwillis> .
<cbx33> hey guys
<a5benwillis> But since the logging in user doesnt exist on the server it cant authenticate.
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<cbx33> the ssh authentication should be transparent
<cbx33> practically
<a5benwillis> THAT is awesome~
<a5benwillis> I have to get this pilot off of the ground so my student can see artwork like that.
<cbx33> my wife did those ;)
<a5benwillis> doesnt the SSH session use the credentials of the user loggin in?
<cbx33> i don't think so... sbalneav ?
<ajmitch> cbx33: hm, what am I supposed to be able to help with?
<cbx33> hehe network authentication
<ajmitch> I see it's netware
<ajmitch> which I haven't had experience with
<a5benwillis> ok, maybe its more simple then
<a5benwillis> cause I can get the authentication to work with GDM
<a5benwillis> can anyone confirm how the SSH session from the thin client works?
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> also, when the login box is displayed on the thin client. Where is the authentication for that controlled?
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> so amny questions :-D
* ajmitch wishes he know the edubuntu/ltsp mix better
<a5benwillis> any links to documentation on the process?
<a5benwillis> well, I'll hang out here for a bit. If any other gurus pop in please let me know!!!
<a5benwillis> To bad developers don't visit these chans
<ajmitch> they do
<a5benwillis> wsell this is my first day here. I'll camp out for a few days until I can corner one LOL
<cliebow_> a5benwillis, :you just missed sbalneav..
<cliebow_> auth appens on the server..id wager yopu have some ssh keys to make
#edubuntu 2007-02-22
<a5benwillis> well
<a5benwillis> I had to eat :-)
<a5benwillis> I think I spoke to him earlier?
<a5benwillis> cliebow_:  I'm trying to find out now if ssh is even my real problem.
<cliebow_> ask Gadi..nicely on #ltsp
<Meshezabeel> I think I found a bug in edubuntu, can someone confirm this for me?
<Meshezabeel> if I run xmodmap it shows Alt_L twice, can someone else run this and see if it happens for them too?
<cbx33> ping burgundavia
<Burgundavia> cbx33: pong
<edubuntugirl> Burgundavia: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'I will be home from work early tomorrow which will give me time to finish up those changes on the chapter.  I did try to email you, but pocketpc died.' 3 days, 6 hours, 21 minutes and 57 seconds ago (on Mon Feb 19 01:58:03 2007)
<Burgundavia> cbx33: given I am currently relaxing with A, I didn't have time to look at your chapter
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> was laughing at edubuntugirl
<cbx33> will you have time before debra wants it?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> she is looking for all my reviews by the end of the weekend
<cbx33> hmmm
<Burgundavia> do you have another revisionto devlive to me?
<cbx33> no
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<cbx33> you have latest, was gonna work on any changes today after i got it back from u
<Burgundavia> have you played with ltsp fat clients?
<cbx33> no
<Burgundavia> hmm
<cbx33> deb wants it on friday.....from me at least, i'm just trying to see when i can fit in changes.  I only really have tonight left.
<Burgundavia> ok
<cbx33> so.....
<Burgundavia> can you ping her and ask her?
<cbx33> ask her what?
<Burgundavia> when it has to be delivered by
<cbx33> she sent me a mail today asking for everything on friday as hand off day
<Burgundavia> from you to the reviews or from me to her?
<cbx33> from me to her
<cbx33> presumably after it has been reviewed by you
<Burgundavia> ah
<cbx33> she is looking at it with another reviewer at the weekend
<cbx33> and i'll then have till tues for any further changes
<Burgundavia> ok
<cbx33> so how do you want to work it....btw you know i sent you  2 mails,.......use the latest one
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I will start reviewing tomorrow night
<cbx33> right....
<cbx33> will you be making changes?
<Burgundavia> likely
<Burgundavia> I am minorly opinionated and likely to find something I need to change :)
<cbx33> i'll have to pass them on straight to deb, as i doubt i'll get much time to fuklly look at them
<cbx33> heh.....you,.....never
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> so, a quiet evening for me then.
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> i only have 2 images left to do too :)
<cbx33> do you wanna send it to deb then?
<LaserJock> ih cbx33
<cbx33> hey laserjock
<cbx33> howz u?
<LaserJock> doing good
<cbx33> excellent
<LaserJock> I just created a server guide and packaging guide .deb
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> right i'm off to start my day...
<cbx33> can you me know on that last one burgundavia?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: which one?
<cbx33> do you wanna send to deb
<cbx33> for the friday deadline
<cbx33> and send me a copy too
<Burgundavia> I will chat with her tomorrow about my deadlines
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i will send her my copy and say it's with you
<cbx33> so i can actually give her something
<cbx33> bye all
<highvoltage> cbx33: private msg?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: I just emailed her
<cbx33> hey ogra how was the trip?
<cbx33> ogra: have done some changes to tcm....there was a problem with Xsession.d and the scp-client script, resulting in the fact that I couldn't blank/unblank screens
<cbx33> because scp couldn't contact the gnome-screensaver session
<cbx33> there was a bug about it on LP
<cbx33> or something very similar
<cbx33> after talking to the #gnome guys I have a fix
<cbx33> but you may not like it
<cbx33> check it out, it's in the bzr repo
<cbx33> i have also fixed up vnc
<cbx33> and it looks a lot prittier now
<cbx33> anyone know what device dm-1 is ?
<cbx33> I'm running a dapper livecd on a machine and getting I/O errors on dm-1
<cafuego_> cbx33: device mapper 1 - on-chip software raid
<cafuego_> Mind you, just ignore if you're running off CD
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> it was dying for a while
<ogra> cbx33, i saw the bug, i will check it if i have the time ... (next week) i suspect the scp client isnt started with the users rights
<cbx33> ogra: oh ok....i have a workaround in the bzr branch that works
<cbx33> but I'm guessing you won't like it :p
<ogra> what did you do ?
<cbx33> well...
<cbx33> i was advised a solution to it was this
<cbx33> move the scp script to place 74
<cbx33> just before dbus is run
<cbx33> and get it to modufy $STARTUP so that it calls a new script
<cbx33> this new script calls scp-client
<cbx33> and then runs what would havebeen run at $STARTUP
<cbx33> twas a way of doing it only adding new files :p
<ogra> thats indeed very very ugly
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> but it least it confirmed wha tthe problem was
<cbx33> remember I'm still learning :p
<cbx33> what do people here use to write man pages easily?
<cbx33> ack gotta go
<cbx33> catch y'all later
<cbx33> catch y'all later
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> jsgotangco, you're repetitive
<ogra> jsgotangco, you're repetitive
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> :D
<highvoltage> when the aliens abducted me, the did nothing to me. to me. to me. to me.
<jsgotangco> i for one, welcome our new ESR overlord
<bimberi> SABDFL in waiting? ;)
<jsgotangco> hardly
<jsgotangco> it would be a fun if he starts making a scene though
<wwwriter2> Goog time
<wwwriter2> May be who use Edubuntu in the University?
<a5benwillis> no university but a k12
<wwwriter2> thanks
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hi bddebian
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello
<bddebian> Heya cbx33, sbalneav
<juliux> sbalneav, btw ltsp is running on sparc;)
<sbalneav> You're using a sparc box as a host?
<ogra> sbalneav, he cheated :)
<sbalneav> :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> how was the trip ogra?
<ogra> ok ...
<ogra> (i had better ones than travelling 12h for 1200km though)
<cbx33> yeh i'll bet
<ogra> they are just discussing tools to detect "copy/paste from internet cheating"
<mpytasz> Maybe just cutting let's say 10 sets of 10 phrases from the document ang googling for them would be enough, if we get a number of hits, some bayesian probability could be calculated
<ogra> right
<ogra> but it gets very fuzzy with rephrased stuff
<mpytasz> Remind me later, in September I was here (near Ancona) on bayesian related conference, I should have some materials about it
<ogra> cool
<mpytasz> there were guys from www.bayesian.org
<cbx33> hmmm
* ogra waves goodbye ... 
<cbx33> bye mr ogra
<cbx33> oh ogra
<cbx33> you still there?
<Laser_away> argg
<Laser_away> he left
<cbx33> i thoguht mdz was on holiday
<LaserJock> cbx33: do you know where ogra went?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I don;t
<cbx33> Burgwork, do you want a meeting tomorrow morning?
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<cliebow_> Italy
<cliebow_> in italy  ... EU edulinux conference
<LaserJock> cbx33: pong :-)
<pscheie> Is there any way to tell which repo an installed package came from?
<LaserJock> pscheie: I believe so
<LaserJock> pscheie: do you mean like Main Universe, etc.
<LaserJock> pscheie: or like 3rd party repo stuff
<pscheie> I noticed that Kgeography is missing from my edgy install
<pscheie> it' supposed to be a part of kde edu
<pscheie> but I just installed it by hand
<pscheie> can't rememeber if I used apt-get or the GUI
<pscheie> now I'm trying to build a customized edubuntu livecd
<pscheie> I've got the file system from the cd copied to disk, and I've chrooted to that directory
<pscheie> but when I do 'apt-get install kgeography', it says no such package found
<pscheie> but I know it's available somewhere because I just installed it a few days ago
<pscheie> so I'm curious as to which repo it was in
<cliebow_> must be part of kde-edu?
<pscheie> right, but kde-edu is already installed, right?
<LaserJock> it is a part of kde-edu
<cliebow_> err.sorry..i just stomped in
<LaserJock> but it's in the Universe repo
<LaserJock> pscheie: I ran apt-cache madison kgeography
<lns> Hey - just a note, not really edubuntu/ltsp specific, but I just found this out. You guys probably already know - a " .hidden " file in any directory containing a list of files/subdirs will hide them from nautilus. Good for hiding /bin, /etc, and others from the root dir. w00t!
<LaserJock> and I get this for fiesty:
<LaserJock> kgeography | 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu1 | http://photon feisty/universe Packages kdeedu | 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu1 | http://photon feisty/main Sources
<cliebow_> lns:Cool
<LaserJock> lns: yes, that is an interesting trick. Hard to do by default though as people get mad ;-)
<LaserJock> Kubuntu tried it once, I believe
<lns> LaserJock, totally. Not something to do by default
<lns> but good for taking some things out for students to work easier
<LaserJock> yes
<lns> unfortunately it doesn't hide them from things like open/save dialogues
<lns> :(
<cliebow_> lns..theres a lot of tweaks too to eliminate navigating up thru your homedir to /
<LaserJock> really?
<lns> cliebow_, can you elaborate? this is really useful info for me right now
<cliebow_> let me pull the file
<lns> =)
<LaserJock> I wonder if any of these tricks are documented in the handbook or on the website
<LaserJock> nixternal: pingy pingy
<lns> LaserJock, i couldn't find this anywhere except for ubuntuforums and some other misc. postings on random sites - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76521
<lns> that kind of customization stuff is gold
<cliebow_> nautilus-desktop-icon-view-ui,xml..i commnet ourcmd name="New Terminal"
<cliebow_> _label="Open Terminal"
<cliebow_> _tip="Open a new Gnome terminal
<cliebow_> nautilus-spatial-window-ui.xml
<cliebow_> comment out _label="Open Parent"
<cliebow_> _tip "Open the Parent Folder"
<cliebow_> #accel="*Alt*Up"
<cliebow_> lns: i use icewm with nautilus on top...in redhat..far quicker than gnome or kde
<cliebow_> and just dont offer a terminal to anyone but admins
<lns_afk> cliebow_, i've yet to use icewm to a far extent... I tried it about a month ago and wasn't very pleased with the bugs
<lns_afk> just little stuff that crashed, like parts of the config window..maybe it was specific to me but i dunno
<cliebow_> not sure..ive been using it in production four years now
<pscheie> LaserJock: Universe was commented out in sources.list
<pscheie> so I uncommented it, ran 'apt-get update', and then tried 'apt-get install kgeography' again
<pscheie> but it still says 'Couldn't find package kgeography
<pscheie> '
<LaserJock> pscheie: hmm
<LaserJock> it *should* work
<pscheie> LaserJock: well, that gives me hope anyway. ;-)
<ajmitch> morning
<cbx33> mornin ajmitch
<lns> cliebow_, oops! Sorry, I was referring to xfce not icewm
<cliebow_> lns:booking it..gotta check on my mom..
<cliebow_> bbl from home
<SnrWhippy> sweeet
<SnrWhippy> anybody using edubuntu here?
<SnrWhippy> trying to avoid using windows at all see if its possible
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm presently sitting at an OS X machine, ssh'd into a  couple of Ubuntu boxes
* cbx33 is using Ubuntu
<cbx33> but i have an edubuntu vm on standby
<cbx33> for development
<SnrWhippy> yeah its been pretty good so far
<SnrWhippy> had a bit of a fiddle getting wireless to use WPA-PSK with tkip
<SnrWhippy> didnt just work thats for sure
* lns has an edubuntu install w/12 clients and an ubuntu/LTSP implementation with 30 (future) clients
<SnrWhippy> excellent yeah it would be interesting if any schools use it already anywhere
<lns> SnrWhippy, tons!!
<SnrWhippy> where you from lns
<lns> Northern California
<LaserJock> lns: where?
<lns> LaserJock, isn't there a webpage that shows all (recorded) installations around the world somewhere?
<SnrWhippy> yeah most of the schools over here in the uk are victims of microsoft
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps
<LaserJock> lns: I live in Reno, NV
<SnrWhippy> hey that sounds good
<lns> SnrWhippy, most people everywhere are victims of M$...but that is changing, for sure
<lns> LaserJock, hey throw a quarter in a slot for me will ya? ;)
<SnrWhippy> i'm lost on the country specific gag there
<lns> SnrWhippy, Reno = big gambling city
<SnrWhippy> lots of money there then
<lns> Here's a page that shows installs... I highly doubt this is anywhere near realistic in terms of number of installs, just people who care to say they installed it
<lns> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallations
<lns> I haven't even put mine in there yet
<SnrWhippy> yeah would be good if it did it by default
<SnrWhippy> tell you what the best tool is ever is that vmware converter prog
<SnrWhippy> anyone used it
<lns> vmware converter?
<SnrWhippy> yeah its amazing i've been waiting for it for ages physical to virtual
<cbx33> eh?
<cbx33> converter?
<lns> SnrWhippy, do you just mean vmware?
<lns> virtualization environment?
<SnrWhippy> i was at work and for a laugh stole my workmates system from under his nose
<SnrWhippy> ported into a virtual machine
<SnrWhippy> going to try it on our servers
<SnrWhippy> i think i just love free stuff
<lns> SnrWhippy, I'm about to embark on virtualizing Windows Server 2k3 in vmware on top of our ubuntu LTSP server
<lns> what would be slick, is that the server has 2 NICs and I'd want to utilize the second one for the VM
<SnrWhippy> i better go need some milk from the shops at its nearly 10pm over here.
<SnrWhippy> byeee thanks for link lns i've bookmarked it
<cbx33> SnrWhippy, keen to learn how you did that
<cbx33> would be useful
<SnrWhippy> yeah get it downloaded
<SnrWhippy> its amazing
<SnrWhippy> it can take a running remote physical machine and turn it into a virtual image *.vmdk and *.vmx ready for running with vmware workstation or player
<SnrWhippy> while someone is using it
<cbx33> what's it called
<cbx33> does it need installing on their machine?
<lns> SnrWhippy, no prob!
<cbx33> i could use that at work
<cbx33> need to do somthing like that
<cbx33> SnrWhippy, proejct name would be great
<lns> wow, that sounds pretty damn cool!
<SnrWhippy> yeah vmware converter
<SnrWhippy> its only recent they released the converter for free
<SnrWhippy> anyway milk
<SnrWhippy> byeee
<lns> I love vmware! =)
<lns> bye SnrWhippy!
<lns> thx for the info
<SnrWhippy> im back and i have milk! sounds good lns let me know how it goes
<SnrWhippy> yeah i dont see why that would be a prob
<lns> np SnrWhippy
<SnrWhippy> hey i like this ntfs-3g thing too
<SnrWhippy> for mounting ntfs partitions in ubuntu
<SnrWhippy> useful
<SnrWhippy> what do people use for video on ubuntu is it vlc or does anything top vlc?
<Spec> vlc :)
<lns> I really like xine
<lns> totem works well too, kinda bulky thou
<cbx33> vlc is nice
<cbx33> mplayer too
<cbx33> SnrWhippy, surely that volume copying takes foreve?
<cbx33> on the converter?
<SnrWhippy> for the converter its actually not that bad
<cbx33> and you must have to have the same storage on the VMWare server
<cbx33> than you do in the machine you are colning
<SnrWhippy> yeah but only of used space
<cbx33> reallY?
<cbx33> does it dynamically grow the hdd then?
<cbx33> that's freakin awesome
<SnrWhippy> yep
<cbx33> sooo
<SnrWhippy> vmware is always awesome
<SnrWhippy> whats this project name thing you want?
<SnrWhippy> strange i got loads of messages at once
<SnrWhippy> wish i could type faster might have to keep going on Ktouch
<cbx33> when it says the converter server intalls the agent on the client machine
<cbx33> what kind of authentication does it need to do that?
<cbx33> MS login credentials?
<cbx33> dose it handle network drives ok too?
<SnrWhippy> lns you mentioned totem works well it didnt seem to have any codecs am i missing something off does it need something back end?
<lns> SnrWhippy, you need to install whatever video codecs your video requires
<lns> depending on what kind of vid it is, you might have to go 'illegal' and download some windows codecs
<lns> try googling for /usr/lib/win32
<lns> something about that rings a bell
<SnrWhippy> i think i am killing my connection with some transfers in the background
<mathesis> hi
<lns> what's up mathesis
<mathesis> lns, do you speak spanish?
<SnrWhippy> yep
<SnrWhippy> it removes it afterwards
<SnrWhippy> i used ms domain admin creds
<mathesis> i have run edubuntu server and 5 thin clients
<a5benwillis> Hi guys
<mathesis> i wan add other pc on the network
<a5benwillis> Does anyone know of a god how to for using gdm instead od ldm with edubuntu??????????
<a5benwillis> cbx33: Hi
<cbx33> hey a5benwillis
<mathesis> how can acces internet  for new computer into of the network ltsp
<SnrWhippy> how do you mean?
<SnrWhippy> i tell you what i shouldnt have installed this ubuntu ive been on the computer so much today i feel like my eyes are going to bleed
<SnrWhippy> the wpa problem wasa bit of a pain
<a5benwillis> i'll keep googling
<lns> mathesis, sorry no :(
<SnrWhippy> more like tell me what video codecs i dont require
<SnrWhippy> lol
<SnrWhippy> thats why i like vlc
<SnrWhippy> i'm going to bed i'm wrecked!
<SnrWhippy> non free codecs bain of my life
<SnrWhippy> cheers lns i'll have a look
<lns> hahah
<lns> After linux is the dominant OS, we'll work on the video people ;)
<cbx33> ping Burgwork I'm off to bed now
<cbx33> will be up early tomrorow for a chat if you're around
<opapo> does edubuntu have pessulus in its repository?
<LaserJock> yes
<opapo> thank you
<LaserJock> edubuntu has the same repositories as ubuntu
<opapo> Is pessulus easy to use?
<opapo> Thank you for your help
<LaserJock> opapo: I haven't tried pessulus in particular
<LaserJock> opapo: I think it should be pretty easy
<LaserJock> I've worked with pessulus's big brother sabayon
<opapo> is sabayon easy?
<LaserJock> I thought it was
<LaserJock> sabayon does a lot more
<LaserJock> it's more than just locking down gnome preferences
<LaserJock> so it sort of depends on how much "locking down" you want to do
<sonyvaio> hola
<sonyvaio> me pregunto si me pueden echar una manito
<opapo> LaserJock: I want students to use Firefox and OpenOffice and that's it
<lns> LaserJock, how stable is Sabayon?
<lns> could you see using it in a 100+ node environment?
<LaserJock> depends on how you define stable I guess
<lns> =p
<LaserJock> I know people who've deployed it at a uni with 500+ machines
<LaserJock> opapo: hmm, and you *just* want to change the menus?
<lns> LaserJock, nice. Have you heard about any bugs/things to look out for/things it doesn't cover?
<opapo> LaserJock: They can have icons on the desktop that they click on and everything else can be locked down so they can't do any thing else
<opapo> that's what I want to happen
<LaserJock> well, I'm sure there are bugs (there always are)
<LaserJock> and the development has basically stopped
<LaserJock> but I think it does a fair amount
<opapo> scary
<lns> hmm...so maybe better using gconf-editor then
<cliebow> opapo: using icewm you can give buttons for only oo and ff
<LaserJock> lns: well, sabayon is a profile editor
<lns> orphaned OSS projects make baby Jesus cry :(
<cliebow> add a locked down nautilus on top if you want deskto p icons
<LaserJock> lns: it's not quite so much orphaned, just Red Hat was paying for the development and they moved their people to a different project
<opapo> LaserJock: is pessulus kept up-to-date?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> opapo: I'd try pessulus first
<LaserJock> see if it'll do what you want
<opapo> thanks
<LaserJock> I'm not quite sure if it will or not
<LaserJock> if it doesn't I'd try sabayon
<LaserJock> they are pretty easy to try out
<LaserJock> so it wouldn't be much of an investment to just try them and see
<LaserJock> but pessulus is actively developed and light
<LaserJock> so it'd be the first choice I think
<opapo> I like that it is actively developed
<LaserJock> well, sabayon is getting a new developer
<LaserJock> it's not like it's really old and rotten
<LaserJock> but it isn't really active
<opapo> I like active projects
#edubuntu 2007-02-23
<lns> LaserJock, is there anythign special i need to do when using pessulus to apply settings? I tried disabling commandline, but it isn't working at all
<LaserJock> lns: hmm, I'm not really sure
<LaserJock> I haven't used pessulus, just sabayon
<lns> oh ok
<lns> unless i'm missing something, it doesn't look like pessulus works at all
<lns> i set something, exit (even set as mandatory value) something like disable commandline or disable print setup, but it has no effect
<lns> weird
<lns> weirder - even changing in gconf-editor doesn't do anything..i must be missing something
<petre> I installed edubuntu from the live cd
<petre> I'm working on remastering the CD also
<a5benwillis> hello
<petre> I've got all the files copied over from the cd
<petre> but i'm having some trouble with apt-get
<petre> specifically, when I'm in the chroot environment, aptitude search * lists 2595 packages
<a5benwillis> apt-get -s install 'package'
<a5benwillis> ops
<petre> but if I run the same command in my regular environment, it lists only 127
<petre> 127 makes no sense
<a5benwillis> wrong window
<petre> oddly, in the normal environment, I can install kgeography, but in the chroot environment, apt says it can't find any such package
<a5benwillis> anybody here?
<Burgwork> a5benwillis: yep
<a5benwillis> do you know what copile time options are required of SSH for edubuntu?
<a5benwillis> Im reinstalling from source
<LaserJock> a5benwillis: what do you mean?
<petre> is /etc/apt/sources.list the only file that tells aptitude where to look for packages?
<LaserJock> basically yeah
<petre> that's what I figured, but I can't figure out why my chroot-into-copy-of-livecd sees less than the installed system, wrt apt
<petre> when is feisty due out?
<petre> both chroot and regular system has the same sources.list file
<petre> s/s/ve/
<LaserJock> feisty is do in April
<LaserJock> *due
<LaserJock> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<petre> do you know where I can find the list of packages/versions scheduled to be in feisty?
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> ping burgwork
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<TeePOG> good afternoon
<rockprincess> hello all!
<Petaris> What is the desktop install iso called?
<ogra> up to edgy its called live ... since feisty its called desktop
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> so you boot the live cd and install from there like with xubuntu?
<ogra> for a workstation install, yes
<Petaris> right, workstation is close enough functionally to ltsp to test the OpenLDAP stuff right?
<ogra> well ... workstation is a workstation, no ltsp involved ... to get ltsp going with ldap you need to tweak the ssh pam settings ... for a workstation you use the gdm pam settings
<Petaris> ahh, so I really do need the LTSP version installed to test
<Petaris> bugger
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> I need to find a machine
<ogra> Petaris, just install openssh-server and ssh to localhost ;)
<ogra> keep the setting for your ltsp then ;)
<bddebian> Heya
<a5benwillis> hi
<admin1> On edgy, I accidently deleted a user account, afterward, I recreated the account, but I am unable to change the password using the users and groups applet..
* skirk A F K
<LaserJock> ogra: around?
<pscheie> can I remove the french language packs without breaking anything?
<pscheie> I don't speak french so they're of no use to me
<LaserJock> pscheie: as long as you don't need them ;-)
<pscheie> I mean language-pack-fr language-pack-gnome-fg and language-pack-kde-fr
<LaserJock> I don't think it should be a problem
<LaserJock> it might take out some other packages that depend on those
<pscheie> I just want to avoid having any errors pop up when starting up an app
<pscheie> errors like 'can't find french support' which I don't care about any way
<pscheie> guess I'll try it and see what happens
<nixternal> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen riched - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<nixternal> @seen RichEd
<nixternal> damn you bots
<LaserJock> nixternal: he's just not here
<Dante123> hi...i'm a teacher and I am looking for software that reads text.....I have the screen reader stuff but that reads the windows and dialogues etc.....I need something to read highlighted text...any suggestions?
<Dante123> I have festival on here.....I am running ubuntu 6.10 too
<LaserJock> hmm
<Dante123> I have LSR for gnome on this machine too
<LaserJock> I don't know of one right off
<nixternal> LaserJock: no really? :p
<LaserJock> Dante123: I would imagine the Ubuntu accesibility guys would know
<Dante123> thanks laser....I can try there...
<Dante123> I figured that i had everything installed that I needed....and I do get the voice thing working......I just thought there was a way of highlighting text and having it read....but that doesn't seem to be what LSR does.....just the window/os stuff
<LaserJock> Dante123: there should be an app for that, I just don't know what
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I read about a new laser today and wanted to post the link to you, but now I just can't find it
<cliebow_> any good way to unpack an rpm?
<a5benwillis> right click andclick extract here?
<highvoltage> cliebow_: you can use mc
<cliebow_> ah
<highvoltage> or even cpio
<cliebow_> yeah was just looking at cpio and rpm2cpio
<highvoltage> but if the right-click-extract works, that's probably the easiest :)
<highvoltage> but I usually use mc (old habits die hard)
<cliebow_> no..wont unpack it in edgy anyway..
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<Burgwork> cbx33: pong
<cbx33> i didn't see you this mornin
<cbx33> did you speak to deb?
<Burgwork> I emailed her
<Burgwork> I fell asleep on the keyboard reviewing last night
<cbx33> oh dear
<cbx33> was it that bad?
<cbx33> ;)
<highvoltage> won't be the first time that happens :)
<Burgwork> no, I am just really tired due to this office move
<cbx33> so what should I do, I sent her all the images yesterday
<cbx33> but I havn't heard back from her or kim
<Burgwork> I will review it tonight
<cbx33> sorry Burgwork
<cbx33> will you send it off to her?
<Burgwork> nothing for you to apologize aobut
<Burgwork> yep
<cbx33> well giving you extra work :p
<Burgwork> did you cc me on the images?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> but I can do
<cbx33> 1.3Mb Zip
<highvoltage> Burgwork: now is a real good time to come work in .za, with the entire government switching to open source and all
<cbx33> *bah* /me had to fight the temptation to tar them up
<Burgwork> highvoltage: indeed. I am still planning it
<highvoltage> Burgwork: kewl
<Burgwork> right now I am just heads down with the office move
<Burgwork> we are rewiring 1700 sq ft of office space
<highvoltage> ouch
<highvoltage> no wonder you're tired
<Burgwork> there is already conduit on the walls, so it is pretty good
<Burgwork> then we need to install all the new furniture, etc.
<Burgwork> highvoltage: have you played with ltsp fat clients?
<highvoltage> I have indeed
<highvoltage> we've implemented it in the digital doorways
<cbx33> Burgwork, sent to you
<cbx33> Burgwork, are you thinking of adding that to the chapter?
<Burgwork> no, just wondering for my own sake
<cbx33> oh hehe
<cbx33> phew
<cbx33> so how is the chap looking so far?
<Burgwork> if you are nfs mouting /, how do you deal with things like static IPs?
<Burgwork> I have no idea. I don't remember anything I did last night :)
<cbx33> heh :) - oh man :p
<highvoltage> Burgwork: which static IP's?
<Burgwork> highvoltage: if you set a static IP in /etc/network/interfaces and you are nfs mounting /, you will get the same IP for each thin client
<highvoltage> Burgwork: you specify the IP range in dhcpd.conf, and you can specify certain ip addresses to certain mac addresses
<Burgwork> true, I forgot about that
<highvoltage> Burgwork: ah. no, all of them use dhcp
<Burgwork> no, I was thinking of my own office, wherein I want static IPs on the computers to facilitate ssh
<Burgwork> currently I run pure fat clients, with desktop multiplier on them
<Burgwork> thinking of switching to ltsp fat clients with d-m installed int eh chroot
<highvoltage> yeah, then you could just specify the addresses to the clients in dhcpd.conf
<Burgwork> ok
<Burgwork> I have never installed LTSP or Edubuntu, so these are things I have never encountered
<highvoltage> ok
<Burgwork> I am tired of manually configuring machines
<cbx33> heh
<highvoltage> manually configuring and supporting machines--
<Burgwork> that isn't bad
<Burgwork> but I only have 3 machines with 6 users
<Burgwork> desktop-multiplier + ltsp sounds like a great combo
<Burgwork> now I only need to convince my boss to open source it...
<highvoltage> that sounds like a tough job!
<Burgwork> very much so
<cbx33> what is desktop-multplier
<Burgwork> multiseat X
<cbx33> ooooooooh
<cbx33> i was looking for that the other day i believe
<Burgwork> http://userful.com/products/multi-station-how-it-works
<cbx33> free too
<Burgwork> looking forward to working with a better product, highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: ubuntu has a less glamerous multi-seat solution too
<highvoltage> Burgwork: I'
<highvoltage> oops
<Burgwork> there is also stuff in X, cbx33
<highvoltage> Burgwork: I have some updates for you, but I'll pm you a bit later!
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> Burgwork, so how fast a machine do you need realistically?
<Burgwork> http://linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
<highvoltage> cbx33: apt-cache show multiseat
<Burgwork> be nice to kick that work up again
<Burgwork> cbx33: depends on what you want to do
<cbx33> ok
<Burgwork> 256mb per user, usually
<cbx33> i gotta go do some paid work now
<cbx33> I'll bbl
<Burgwork> however, we don't ship computers with less than 1gig
<Burgwork> highvoltage: have you played with the multiseat package?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: only once
<highvoltage> Burgwork: when it was released
<Burgwork> and?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: and it didn't work :)
<Burgwork> oh
<Burgwork> multiseat frequently does
<Burgwork> not work, that is
<highvoltage> Burgwork: but I believe it has been fixed in the meantime, I haven't tried it since, though
<cliebow_> Burgwork: that is in feisty? mu;ltiseat?
<Burgwork> cliebow_: multiseat and desktop-multiplier are both in feisty
<Burgwork> ms has been around since warty, dm since dapper
<Burgwork> ms is Free, dm is merely free
<LaserJock> highvoltage: nifty laser? sounds fun
<LaserJock> where is OGRA?!? :-)
<cliebow_> Italy
<LaserJock> well, I just want him in here now,  I don't care where he is physically ;-)
<cliebow_> 8~)
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to have to move to Europe just so I can be at a better Ubuntu time zone
<cliebow_> never can get an ogre when you need one.....
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's the weekend! ogra needs some rest
<LaserJock> either that or I'm going to have to convince Mark to move Canonical to Vegas ;-)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it is? oh that's right :/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm sure there's many canonical staffers that won't object :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I normally notice it's weekend when people quiet down and I can get back to work
<cbx33> is ogra back from italy now?
<cbx33> Burgwork, one more question
<cbx33> basically there isn't anything for me to do today on book is there?
<pscheie> on the edubuntu live cd, what creates the 'installer' icon on the desktop?
<pscheie> put another way, how do I get rid of it?
<SnrWhippy> anyone installed vmware workstation 6 on edgy?
<SnrWhippy> heloooo!!
<LaserJock> I haven't, sorry
<SnrWhippy> no worries its quiet in here today
<SnrWhippy> theres an rpm and a tar.gz what should i use
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I'd go with tar.gz personally
<LaserJock> but if that didn't work so swell I might use alien on the rpm
<SnrWhippy> yeah ok i started alien but i chickened
<SnrWhippy> is it easy to clean up if it all goes bad
<cbx33> do it from tar
<SnrWhippy> yeah ok will try that
<SnrWhippy> i'll let you know how badly it fails
<SnrWhippy> anyone use checkinstall instead of make
<LaserJock> SnrWhippy: I have
<LaserJock> SnrWhippy: it works ok for simple packages for personal use
<SnrWhippy> oh ok
<SnrWhippy> vmware maybe not then
<cbx33> SnrWhippy, vmware is pee easy to install via the tar
<SnrWhippy> really?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> its' a wizard
<SnrWhippy> eh? workstation 6?
<cbx33> untar and run
<cbx33> vmware-install.pl
<cbx33> as root
<cbx33> easy peasy :p
<cbx33> much nicer than any other source install
<SnrWhippy> :)
#edubuntu 2007-02-24
<cbx33> l
<SnrWhippy> sorted whats this bit about? None of the pre-built vmmon modules for VMware Workstation is suitable for your
<SnrWhippy> running kernel.  Do you want this program to try to build the vmmon module for
<SnrWhippy> your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)
<cbx33> yup
<SnrWhippy> i take it i say yes then i have to find my c compiler if one is installed by default
<cbx33> you need to compile
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> this is what you do
<cbx33> quit the config program
<cbx33> and then do this
<SnrWhippy> k
<cbx33> sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers
<cbx33> i think that's it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ydon;t do that
<cbx33> do
<SnrWhippy> ok
<cbx33> sudo apt-get install build-essential
<cbx33> then do sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<cbx33> then re run
<cbx33> sudo vmware-config.pl
<cbx33> and it should compile and load the module perfectly
<SnrWhippy> ok excellent i'll give it a shot
<cbx33> np
<SnrWhippy> brilliant its the headers i didnt have that explains it
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> all working now?
<SnrWhippy> your an absolute hero!
<SnrWhippy> arggg it just wont start
<a5benwillis> what wont start
<SnrWhippy> vmware just installed it
<a5benwillis> did you configure it?
<SnrWhippy> yeah it all went ok
<SnrWhippy> just when i go to click on it in system tools it just whirrs a bit and stops
<a5benwillis> try running it from sudo
<a5benwillis> how did you install it? apt-get? or is it the beta version from tar.gz?
<SnrWhippy> beta
<SnrWhippy> says its not corrects installed for this system arggg
<SnrWhippy> back to the drawing boards
<a5benwillis> Im running the beta
<a5benwillis> works just fine
<SnrWhippy> Trying to find a suitable vmmon module for your running kernel.
<SnrWhippy> None of the pre-built vmmon modules for VMware Workstation is suitable for your
<SnrWhippy> running kernel.  Do you want this program to try to build the vmmon module for
<SnrWhippy> your system (you need to have a C compiler installed on your system)? [yes] 
<SnrWhippy> Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override.
<SnrWhippy> What is the location of the directory of C header files that match your running
<SnrWhippy> kernel? [/lib/modules/2.6.17-11-386/build/include] 
<SnrWhippy> does that look about right
<a5benwillis> yes
<a5benwillis> mine did the same thing
<SnrWhippy> ahh i wonder if its to do with madwifi
<a5benwillis> you should still be able to install it.
<SnrWhippy> all default settings?
<a5benwillis> yes
<a5benwillis> when it finishes installing it wall ask to run vmware-config
<a5benwillis> let it run.
<a5benwillis> then run vmware with sudo the first time
<SnrWhippy> just says its not correctly configured
<SnrWhippy> i'll have a mess about
<SnrWhippy> i think its probably something to do with kernel version or the fact i've bridged the wireless with vmnet0
<SnrWhippy> and it fails bizarrly in the setup
<SnrWhippy> how do i check my kernel version?
<a5benwillis> sry Im back
<a5benwillis> let me catch up
<SnrWhippy> arggg yeah it is the damn wireless card
<SnrWhippy> i disabled networking in the config and it starts no probs
<a5benwillis> cat /proc/version
<SnrWhippy> cheers yeah version is right
<a5benwillis> my wireless works, but, when I do vpn from my windows guest I have to use wired
<a5benwillis> but I have an intel pro card
<SnrWhippy> yeah i've got a dodgy atheros
<SnrWhippy> uses madwifi
<SnrWhippy> which is causing me some grief
<a5benwillis> is this edubuntu?
<SnrWhippy> yeah
<a5benwillis> host or guest
<SnrWhippy> host
<a5benwillis> interesting
<SnrWhippy> i havent got to the guest stage yet
<a5benwillis> i run ubuntu edgy on my laptop
<a5benwillis> but I do run edu in vmware
<a5benwillis> I also have it running under vmware ESX server
<SnrWhippy> ive never used esx server is it any good
<SnrWhippy> i'd love to see a proper vmware infrastructure working
<a5benwillis> yes, ESX is the way to go if you have the hardware. Its very picky
<a5benwillis> it runs on a modified Fedora kernel and uses very very little of the systems resources.
<a5benwillis> I have it running on a dual Xeon 3.6 with 6GB ram
<a5benwillis> 400GB SATA Drives
<a5benwillis> erm SAS
<SnrWhippy> deary me
<SnrWhippy> thats a serious sytem
<a5benwillis> its a dell poweredge 2850
<SnrWhippy> oh yeah i think our ibm's e series at work should be silimar apart from ram and hdd
<SnrWhippy> they should be ok for esx perhaps but i need to convert the physical machine to a virtual before i can blank the server and start again
<a5benwillis> I run the 2.5 version, havent tried the newest 3.0. Im not even sure what the new features are
<SnrWhippy> is it not stupidly expensive
<a5benwillis> Im sure it is ;-)
<SnrWhippy> lol
<prgatorypete> hello
<LaserJock> hi
<prgatorypete> i'm having trouble setting up my wireless card with edubuntu
<prgatorypete> anyone have any advice?
<cbx33>  hey
<highvoltage> hey cbx33
<KetS> hi?
<stgraber> hi
<KetS> i'm looking for a lighter vesion of edubuntu tu install in a group of computers that are going to be sent to Africa, do you know if there's an Edubuntu version with xfce of even lower desktop manager?
<stgraber> there was the idea to do that : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuXfceDesktop
<kgoetz> KetS: not an 'out of the box', but you can DIY
<stgraber> but I don't know if someone did a cdrom for that
<stgraber> otherwise you can still get a xubuntu cd-rom
<stgraber> and update it to install the educationnal packages
<kgoetz> or edubuntu+install xfce, which would proably be eaiser then xfce+edubuntu stuff
<stgraber> yup
<KetS> uhmmm i guess
<KetS> the problem it's that it should be installed in several computers and we don't have internet access there so we have to do it all manually in every desktop
<kgoetz> KetS: why not make an install cd and use that to install all systems?
<stgraber> so customizing an install cdrom should be the easiest way or maybe install a computer somewhere where you have internet and then do an image of the disk
<KetS> kgoetz will be it very dificult? i've been long time using debian but don't know how to create an install CD
<kgoetz> what i just did for work was install E16+standard ubuntu+extra apps then made mondo recover discs (2 cds for an install), its up to date, and has all customisations required
<kgoetz>  then the only major cost is making cds
<kgoetz> hm. i also had +dist-upgrade
<kgoetz> it takes a long time to make mondo discs, but its not hard
<KetS> uhmmm do you have a guide (link)
<KetS> ?
<kgoetz> i was takene aback by it doing a nagware trick at me, but i havent had a chance to investigate it yet
<cbx33> w00t just finished our new website.... www.trinsite.co.uk
<kgoetz> hm, no. you apt-get install mondo, then type 'sudo mondoarchive' and follow the prompts
<kgoetz> (i did what a mate sugested, it worked without needing a guide)
<KetS> okei, i'll try it, thanks very much
<kgoetz> cbx33: neat site, fails validation ;)
<stgraber> cbx33: looks great, just a little thing the bottom picture takes quite a lot of time to show there
<kgoetz> gl KetS
<cbx33> just about to work :0
<cbx33> refresh plz
<kgoetz> ooh, more stuff
<cbx33> yup
<stgraber> oo, we have the header now :)
<cbx33> likey?
<kgoetz> cbx33: is nice, but heavy
<cbx33> indeed
<stgraber> the server seems to be quite slow to serve the pictures ...
<cbx33> hmm seems ok here
<kgoetz> stgraber: thats what i found
<kgoetz> cbx33: whats your connection?
<cbx33> 8Mb :p
<cbx33> haha
<kgoetz> i estimate about 500kb of images - is that correct?
<stgraber> ~32kB/s during the picture download
<stgraber> (when I can download at 800kB/s :))
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> we're just about to start compressing imge
<cbx33> should speed things up
<kgoetz> ah cool
<stgraber> ok, good thing :)
<kgoetz> cbx33: are you going to make it validate, or is it 'broken for a reason'?
<cbx33> how does it fail?
<cbx33> it gets a tick for standards complicane in firefox
<kgoetz> 3 div related errors, 4 alt tags http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trinsite.co.uk%2F
<cbx33> HAHAHA
<cbx33> the checker falls foul of JavaScript too
<kgoetz> lol
<kgoetz> :(
* kgoetz cant deal with js, i just avoid it like the plauge
<stgraber> :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> anyone used open laszlo
<kgoetz> hi edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> hello, kgoetz!
<stgraber> hi edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> howzit, stgraber!
<kgoetz> :)
<stgraber> finally back :)
<kgoetz> :)
* highvoltage reached his cap 3 hours ago
* kgoetz wonders if fb in feisty has -cb by default
<a5benwillis> mornin
<rockprincess> hello!
<a5benwillis> good morning
<rockprincess> good morning ;)
<rockprincess> it's afternoon here ;)
<stgraber> here as well but good morning anyway :)
<a5benwillis> You guys ready for a tough question?
<rockprincess> does anyone know how i could activate my 2nd network card? i just built it in....
<rockprincess> the 2nd network card is recognized by the system...
<a5benwillis> is the hardware detected?
<a5benwillis> ok
<rockprincess> yep
<a5benwillis> does it show up under network-config
<a5benwillis> was it assignet an eth#?
<rockprincess> where do it see if this is the case?
<a5benwillis> hold on a sec
<a5benwillis> ok im back
<a5benwillis> if you go to System>Administration>networking
<a5benwillis> does it show up there?
<rockprincess> yes, i guess....but it says it's not configured...and the other one says DHCP
<rockprincess> shall i configure the 2nd one to DHCP as well?
<a5benwillis> on the main screen is the little box checked or does it have a line through it.
<rockprincess> it is checked
<a5benwillis> on the new card?
<rockprincess> no the new one is blank, neither striked-through or checked
<a5benwillis> oh ok, that makes sense
<a5benwillis> go to properties
<a5benwillis> check enable interface
<rockprincess> ok
<a5benwillis> or enable this connection
<a5benwillis> then click ok
<a5benwillis> then check that first box
<rockprincess> configuration: automatic configuration (DHCP) right?
<a5benwillis> as long as you have a dhcp server, yes
<rockprincess> excellent, thank you it worked :D
<a5benwillis> np
<cliebow_> what should i be using for a kernel in feisty?
<gnomefreak> 2.6.20-8
<cliebow_> thank you
<a5benwillis> mornin cliebow_
<a5benwillis> your the nss expert right?
<a5benwillis> erm youre
<cliebow_> no..not really
<cliebow_> i  mean i have an nsswitch.conf that works for ldap..but that is a no brainer./..
<mathesis> how can configure audio for firefox?
<a5benwillis> anybody here today?
<cliebow_> INPUT!!!
<highvoltage> megabytes and megabytes of INPUT
<highvoltage> johnny five is alive!
<a5benwillis> been slow here today I see
<a5benwillis> cliebow_: SInce you're the nss expert ;-) lemme ask you a question
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> I added an nss module to my nsswitch.config.
<a5benwillis> like this: passwd:    compat ncp
<a5benwillis> I also added it to shadow.
<a5benwillis> .
<cbx33> hi a5benwillis
<a5benwillis> users are being looked up properly now via NCP and the nss module. Yay!
<a5benwillis> hi cbx33
<cbx33> excellent work
<a5benwillis> but I still get an error when I try to log into SSH. argh
<cbx33> :(
<a5benwillis> The user is found via NSS/NCP
<a5benwillis> Authenticated successfully
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> You would think I had it licked at this point.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> The last message I get in my auth.log is
<a5benwillis> ssd[6995] : debug1: do_pam_account: called
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> when this happens the ssh client side accepts the password and just sits there.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> Eventually another error is logged in auth.log
<a5benwillis> Fatal: Timeout before authentication for 127.0.0.1
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> .
<cbx33> hmmm
<a5benwillis> DOes this make any sense to you guys? I can still log in with a local account BTW so SSH isnt broken completely
<a5benwillis> I really thought I had it fixed. But this is almost as bad as before lol. SO close yet so far away.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> If anyone has an Idea lemme know. I'll check back. Gonna go mess with it some more.
#edubuntu 2007-02-25
<a5benwillis> slow here tonight
<LaserJock> weekends
<a5benwillis> Yeah. An me still chugging away on this problem. Its killing me
<a5benwillis> About to ask a LONG question. Please don't flame me. :-)
<a5benwillis> I need help with an NSS, PAM, NCP with SSH issue. Im using an NSS/NCP module in my nsswitch.conf file to do a user lookup on an NDS server.
<a5benwillis> When I try to log in via SSH the user is found with the NSS module, authenticated via an NCP so module but I still can't log on.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> I see in the /var/auth.log file that the user is successfully authenticated.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> The last message I get in my auth.log is
<a5benwillis> -ssd[6995] : debug1: do_pam_account: called
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> When this happens the ssh client side accepts the password and just sits there.
<a5benwillis> .
<a5benwillis> Eventually another error is logged in auth.log
<a5benwillis> -Fatal: Timeout before authentication for 127.0.0.1
<a5benwillis> .
<cliebow_> hi..i started from edgy..editted sources.list then apt-get -y dist-upgrade..it runs ok..but slow on 2.6.17.7.did not update grub..i did grub-install /dev/hda..picking 2.6.20 i get dumped into the initramfs..what did i not do?
<cliebow_> i can still get into the edgy partition fine..or the feisty using old kernel
<a5benwillis> way over my hear cliebow_
<a5benwillis> head
<cliebow_> a5benwillis, :still  beating your head againnst ill wager
<a5benwillis> no doubt
<a5benwillis> still playing the nsswitch shuffle
<flaccid> my friend has installed edubuntu and openssh-server
<flaccid> its listening and all
<flaccid> but trying to ssh in it just hangs then times out after a long period
<flaccid> what could be wrong?
<a5benwillis> check the /var/log/auth.log
<a5benwillis> are you using anything other than the defualt authentication?
<flaccid> nope
<flaccid> it seriously just hangs
<flaccid> i don't get to a password prompt
<a5benwillis> firewall?
<a5benwillis> look in the log I mentioned and see if the connection is seen by the server.
<a5benwillis> you may have to edit /etc/ssd/sshd_config to set the logging to DEBUG.
<flaccid> yeah its crazy
<flaccid> it all looks good
<flaccid> no firewall
<a5benwillis> try looking at the logs, it should tell you whats happening.
<flaccid> i think  its the switch
<a5benwillis> did the logs show a connection being seen by the sshd
<flaccid> yeah but goes to nologin
<flaccid> sending with username explicitly
<flaccid> dies after pam_unix
<foxiness> hi,after i upgrade edubuntu by a ubuntu DVD "ubuntu 6.10" its remove edubunut meta package and installed a ubuntu meta package instead ,but now with out usplash"text mode" edubuntu login and background icon all edubuntu "old one 6.06" , how can i update all this to take the ubuntu theme or if i can edubunut theme "update one 6.10"
<H264> Hi
<stgraber> Any python pro around ?
<flaccid> is there like individual xorg configurations per user. screen is great at gdm, but then changes on login with a user and is a dif setting?
<bddebian> Heya
<a5benwillis> Anybody lurking this morning.
<a5benwillis> I just have a question about how thin clients connection works. How it runs gnome etc
<juvonen> hi
<juvonen> can't use usb on thin client
<a5benwillis> Who can tell me what version of LTSP is ran on Edubuntu?????
<stgraber> a5benwillis: IIRC edgy is LTSP5
<a5benwillis> thanks
#edubuntu 2008-02-18
<achandra> hello im having some trouble pxe booting my clients in standalone mode. Can someone help out?
<achandra> when i run in dual nic mode on another box..the same client has no issues.
<johnny> you're prolly going to have a wait a bit for your ansswer, many folks are sleeping atm
<achandra> hi johnny..okay..its been a rough install now..over 5 days..of trying to get this to work.
<random0ne> pygi: i sent you an email with my current open source licensing policy draft
<pygi> random0ne, ok, thank you
<pygi> will checkout in an hour or so :)
<random0ne> thank you kindly
<Aw0L> is there a list of installed software for edubuntu somewhere?
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20080218.5/
<ogra_cmpc> there we go ... :)
<stgraber> 639M ??
<ogra_cmpc> with tons of langpacks we dont need, yes
<ogra_cmpc> i think 3-400M are langpacks
<stgraber> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20080218.5/report.html <-- Not only langpacks it seems
<ogra_cmpc> ignore report.html
<stgraber> yes, I have seen the answer on #ubuntu-devel :)
<ogra_cmpc> (see #ubuntu-devel)
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<stgraber> btw, do we have a MIR filed for iTalc ?
<ogra_cmpc> nope, not yet
<ogra_cmpc> i need to do one for pangodsl as well ...
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> pangosdl
<ogra_cmpc> damned paperwork
<stgraber> yeah ...
<nantes_geek> hi !
<nantes_geek> i have got a small question
<nantes_geek> how is made the bootsplash of the edubuntu ?
<johnny_> ogra_cmpc, hey
#edubuntu 2008-02-19
<purserj> morning/afternoon/evening all
<purserj> got a question, what are the minimum requirements for a stand alone installation of edubuntu? I can't seem to find them on the edubuntu site
<johnny_> same as the regular ubuntu
<johnny_> which i have actually never read
<johnny_> unless you're using it as a ltsp server
<purserj> right, I've just been contacted by someone who's interested in edubuntu but couldn't find the minimum specs. They didn't know about ubuntu so were a little confused
<purserj> might be handy to have that info on the site
<johnny_> edubuntu is turning into a addon cd to ubuntu in later versions, so i guess there hasn't been alot of focus on such things lately
<johnny_> it won't be it's own distro
<purserj> ah, didn't know that
<johnny_> it's still in the works atm
<johnny_> atm, all edubuntu is, is a way to have a ubuntu install with some extra graphics and programs preinstalle
<purserj> okay
<lns> purserj, as an informal, based-solely-on-experience opinion, if you want a nice fast system (i.e. no big sluggishness during regular usage), I'd go with a 1.5-2.0GHz system with at least 512MB RAM and a 40GB HDD
<lns> I have a 1.8GHz P4 running Ubuntu and it's fine - a bit sluggish when viewing flash pages (big surprise) and doing other things - but I usually have 3-4 fullscale apps (tbird, ffox, sunbird, xchat, multiple terminals) open at the same time
<lns> I do have 1GB RAM PC-3200 RAM though, that will definitely help
<purserj> lns: thanks I'll pass that on
<kgoetz> lns: thoe numbers sound about right (although hdd sie is moot over 5 gig)
<lns> kgoetz, I was just thinking 40gb for a modest amount of storage space
<kgoetz> lns: yep
<kgoetz> afaik most pc drives over ~20 gig are 7200rpm
<lns> purserj, anything more than 2.0GHz will just make it run faster. =) Can't lose with that, but the *minimum* I would say is 1.5-2GHz
<kgoetz> lns: are you thiking athe mmodern releases or all?
<lns> kgoetz, modern yes
<lns> i'm using Gutsy (ubuntu) on my 1.8ghz
<kgoetz> :/ thats irritating
<nixternal> RichEd or ogra: Will the package in the repos still be called edubuntu-desktop?  I plan on emailing you all a copy of this chapter tonight so you can review it
<achandrashekar> hello im using the smbldap-installer and it errors out on smbldap-populate portion. Can someone assist
<kgoetz> achandrashekar: what errores does it give you?
<achandrashekar> i ran it manually as well and that was far more descriptive.
<achandrashekar> here you go -
<achandrashekar> (its short) no need for pastebin
<achandrashekar> :)
<achandrashekar> erreur LDAP: Can't contact master ldap server (IO::Socket::INET: Connect: Connection refuse) at /usr/share/perl5/smbldap_tools.pm line 282
<achandrashekar> any ideas?
<kgoetz> is it configured correctly?
<kgoetz> 'cant connect' sounds like the server is uncontactable
<achandrashekar> meaning?..i simply ran the script and followed the directions (so i believe) on the website
<achandrashekar> i ran the script on the same box that i want to install it. :)
<kgoetz> do you have an ldap server setup?
<achandrashekar> kgoetz: no. the script does the full installation.
<achandrashekar> from www.vcsvikings.org/docuwiki/cgi-bin/moin.cgi
<achandrashekar> sorry needs /FrontPage at the end
<kgoetz> www.vcsvikings.org/docuwiki/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/FrontPage ?
<achandrashekar> yes
<kgoetz> hm.
<achandrashekar> a bit strange...i think its a permissions issue of some sort... ill have to track it down.
<achandrashekar> i did run it as sudo su
<daya> hi channel,
<daya> Can we build LTSP in debian as included in edubuntu 7.10
<achandrashekar> daya: I dont see why not.
<kgoetz> daya: i think it is built for debian already
<kgoetz> achandrashekar: sounds like the script is roken
<achandrashekar> kgoetz: I figured something like that.. its "trying" to access ldap...but cant.ill have to hunt. because I want to set up an infrastructure setup for ltsp
<daya> kgoetz, yes, but only 5.0 in ltsp.org, and backported one
<achandrashekar> and i have the dhcp-failover working :)
<daya> kgoetz, I am seeking without nfs,
<daya> kgoetz, that one with squashfs and nbd
<kgoetz> daya: ah right
<daya> kgoetz, is it built for debian,
<daya> kgoetz, whats the lnk
<kgoetz> daya: unsure.
<kgoetz> (unsure if its built for debian)
<daya> kgoetz, most probably  ogra knows about it,
<daya> ogra,can you help me to find out it,
<lns> daya, google is your friend
<daya> lns, :),
<johnny_> ask in #ltsp
<johnny_> but wait
<johnny_> one of the folks in there maintains the debian packages
<achandrashekar> kgoetz: figured it out.
<kgoetz> achandrashekar: cool
<achandrashekar> kgoetz: /var/log/syslog is your friend! :)   /var/run/slap.pid was not there and owned by openldap;openldap
<achandrashekar> thanks for your help...sometimes just having someone listen and ask questions back gets you going in the right direction. :)
<kgoetz> achandrashekar: have fun
<achandrashekar> i will let you know how the whole thing goes. I basically followed the steps to get a failover ltsp system going
<achandrashekar> if it works well..i will do a "re-write up" for standalone ltsp setup. there are many "gotchas"
<achandrashekar> kgoetz: okay on the second ldap client, I set it up to authenticate and rebooted it. I know receive a message that simply says "Starting Kernel daeomon" and it gives me a console prompt for login instead of typical graphical login. Any ideas?
<achandrashekar> ldap install issue...part 2...after rebooting the master ldap server, the system hangs at the following "Starting kernel log daemon"
<achandrashekar> can someone help?
<achandrashekar> hello..in the ldap cofiguration of edubuntu..the system seems to hang on boot...anyone else experience this?
<johnny_> you're going to find a smaller subset of folks who use ldap with their setup i imagine
<johnny_> prolly going to have to wait til later
<johnny_> to get a response
<pygi> achandrashekar, hello
<pygi> have you tried doing any debugging?
<pygi> I had a small setup of computers like that (read: something like 40)
<pygi> purserj, sorry, did you got your response yesterday on the requirements?
<pygi> I'll be back in 15 mins, so you might poke me if you want answers :)
<achandrashekar> pygi: sorry for delay..it appears to be a nsswitch issue and boot up..something to do with compat being replaced with files ldap
<achandrashekar> im trying to work on a workaround
<achandrashekar> okay...it appears there is a bug that has been posted for ldap
<achandrashekar> and it then further causes more headaches for those trying to install ltsp in infrastructure mode for 7.10
<achandrashekar> consider that ltsp5.0 is so wonderful..hopefully someone will fix the damn libnss issue that plagues ldap
<ogra> achandrashekar, did you ask in #ubuntu-server about it ?
<ogra> theer are the ldap experts ;)
<ogra> *there
<achandrashekar> i see...i ask them as well... this is a major impact to the edubuntu community as most of us guys are looking to make a solid move in an infrastructure setup. with ldap not working properly the management of accounts across boxes becomes a nightmare
<achandrashekar> anyhow..will ask there as well
<achandrashekar> thnx
<ogra> well, a *lot* changed with ldap in gutsy
<ogra> they are preparing for the auth server implementation in hardy+1
<achandrashekar> yeah.....im so impressed with ltsp 5, and i got the dhcp-failover working
<achandrashekar> last piece of the puzzle here
<ogra> so they adjusted the infrastructure to their needs for the future
<ogra> lots of things might work different
<achandrashekar> i see.. im still a trooper :)
<achandrashekar> been working like over a week on this
<achandrashekar> ive learned an incredible amount
<achandrashekar> and im close :)
 * johnny_ reads bzrarchives blueprint and thinks of monotone
<purserj> pygi: yes I found out the information that I needed thanks
<achandrashekar> ill try to ask in the morning again...gdnight
<pygi> achandrashekar, sec :P
<achandrashekar> okay..
<achandrashekar> no problem whats up?
<pygi> just reading what you posted :)
<pygi> ah, gutsy setup with ldap ....
<achandrashekar> yeah...giving me fits
<pygi> hm, didnt upgrade to gutsy yet (/me had dapper in place me thinks)
<pygi> purserj, oki :)
<achandrashekar> and that is ltsp 5 as well?? or
<achandrashekar> 4 right
<achandrashekar> ??
<pygi> I think it was 4?
<achandrashekar> yeah 4
<achandrashekar> its that damn libnss package. I even tried to move S19slapd in all of the rc.X files to S10slapd and it still gives me fits.
<kwak> does edubuntu have issues with broadcom wireless adapters
<johnny_> just as much as ever other distro
<achandrashekar> broadcom has issues with linux in general :)
<achandrashekar> ;)
<achandrashekar> anyhow guys..i need a tad bit of sleep here..and maybe ill come up with another mechanism to manage these accounts.
<achandrashekar> across two boxes.
<achandrashekar> thanks for all your help see you l8r
<johnny_> i'm sure it is possible to get it working
<achandrashekar> i finally got the dhcp part working with failover and it was a learning curve
<achandrashekar> but now this....:(
<achandrashekar> id REALLY like to figure this out. on standalone
<achandrashekar> anyhow..im spiraling.
<achandrashekar> and tired.
<achandrashekar> c you guys l8r
<achandrashekar> kwak: ndiswrapper is your friend
<achandrashekar> gdnight
<ogra> kwak, you should have a little icon in your panel telling you that the system found HW it needs external stuff for, click on it and it will walk your though the process to get the broadcom working (note that doesnt work for all broeadcoms, but most)
<samiroquai> me wants Fatima (prophet Muhammad's daughter) so bad
<samiroquai> me so horny
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Fatima Zahra
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Jesus' mom
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Moses' ass
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Abraham's gay-ass son
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Poorochista (Zoroaster's whore daughter)
<samiroquai> me wants you so bad
<samiroquai> jooooooooooonsk
<samiroquai> jah
<samiroquai> :)
<samiroquai> lalalala
<samiroquai> trollin' around
<samiroquai> :D
<samiroquai> hehe
<samiroquai> i'm an idiot
<samiroquai> me wants Fatima (prophet Muhammad's daughter) so bad
<samiroquai> me so horny
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Fatima Zahra
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Jesus' mom
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Moses' ass
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Abraham's gay-ass son
<samiroquai> me fucky fucky Poorochista (Zoroaster's whore daughter)
<samiroquai> me wants you so bad
<samiroquai> jooooooooooonsk
<samiroquai> :)
<samiroquai> jah
<juliux> ogra, that was a quick reaction
<ogra> well, i wish i had been faster
#edubuntu 2008-02-20
<alumno02> i havent sound in clients
<alumno02> edubuntu gutsy 7.10
<alumno02> help
<alumno02> i have edubuntu 7.10 but i havent sound in clients, what steps i should follow to solve this?
<GSK> VMware bridged mode, someone can help me ? To configure it on my laptop. I want to bridged vmnet 1 on eth0 and vmnet 2 on eth1
<alumno02> i think everybody here are sleeping
<GSK> i think too but you are not sleeping yet
<GSK> so maybe you can help me ?
<RichEd> alumno02: you using LTSP setup ?
<RichEd> GSK: your problem is actually an ubuntu system problem ... not related to the edubuntu layer on top of that
<RichEd> so GSK ask the question in #ubuntu ... lots of lively people in there
<alumno02> yes
<alumno02> riched, i succesully installed edubuntu, i have clients working with usb in clients, but no sound in clients but in server it worked fine
<RichEd> alumno02: okay let me see if i can find a useful help page ...
<RichEd> not also that the LTSP in edubuntu is the latest core LTSP that is developed & maintained by the guys in #ltsp
<RichEd> so that is also a good place to ask for edubuntu LTSP related assistance
<alumno02> ok, thanks, i'll ask inthere
<alumno02> join /#ltsp
<alumno02> lol
<RichEd> alumno02: at first i thought you were laughing at me ... "his way to help is to send people to other channels with their questions"
<RichEd> then I noticed your displaced slash in the join command
<alumno02> i actually displaced slash, my mistake
<alumno02> i have SOUND=true in lts.conf but isn't working :/
<RichEd> alumno02: it's not just you with the problem ... see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=600812
<alumno02> ok, thanks
<RichEd> alumno02: see /msg window
<RichEd> alumno02: did you see the message
<alumno02> yes i did, and i answer you too,thanks
<RichEd> :) check your freenode server window ... it probably tells you that you can't send private messages if you are not authenticated
 * RichEd got no reponses
<alumno02> ok
<alumno02> I answered as follows: hummm, i think x11vnc is for watch screen of thin clients remotely, and isn't related with sound, may be timma should check if her/his lts.conf have the "SOUND=true".
<RichEd> okay ... i suggest you hang around in LTSP until you see sbnalneav / jammcq arrive ... they are good to ask
<RichEd> they are on US time so will be in later i presume
<alumno04> hi, i havent sound in clients, i use edubuntu 7.10 (ltsp5)
<ogra_cmpc> alumno04, you should really mention that you run icewm in such a line :)
<ogra_cmpc> all of the alsa integration is with the default desktop ... so i have no idea what to tel you for icewm now
<ogra_cmpc> if you say you havent sound which apps are you referring to ?
<ogra_cmpc> the swetup is in a way that it should work for all apps using alsa
<ogra_cmpc> (including volume control with alsamixer)
<alumno04> hummm
<alumno04> but gnome is too heavy for clients
<laga_> alumno04: the whole point is that gnome runs on the server
<alumno04> in fact, is heavy for any server->clients architecture
<alumno04> humm, so, if i run gnome in a client, sound should work ?
<ogra_cmpc> you dont run anything on a client :)
<ogra_cmpc> it all runs on the server
<ogra_cmpc> only the display and input output stuff runs on the client, no matter what desktop you run
<alumno04> yes i do
<alumno04> i mean, i know
<ogra_cmpc> but the error you posted to #ltsp looks more like a HW problem
<ogra_cmpc> lets stay in one channel :) (over there)
<alumno04> it seems to be a module problem (sis7019)
<alumno04> i compiled the sis7019 but when i do "make install" i got "make: *** theres not rules to build.... - Stop"
<alumno04> help pls ogra_cmpc
<alumno04> i compile the driver with make
<alumno04> *compiled
<ogra_cmpc> alumno04, no idea, sorry
<alumno04> now i got the .ko drivers
<ogra_cmpc> i know the driver stopped working with the 2.6.16 kernel
<ogra_cmpc> well, to try you can copy them into the module tree manually and run depmod -a
<ogra_cmpc> (in the chroot)
<alumno04> uhmmm
<alumno04> ok, then now i do chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 right?
<alumno04> no, just copy the module into it
<ogra_cmpc> then you need to regenrate the initramfs and make ltsp copy the that in place
<ogra_cmpc> copy it to /opt/ltsp/i386/tmp
<ogra_cmpc> then chroot
<alumno04> do i need just the .ko files?
<ogra_cmpc> then copy it in the right place and run depmod -a and update-initramfs -u (in that order)
<ogra_cmpc> the .ko should suffice
<alumno04> ok, thanks a lot
<alumno04> a LOT
<ogra_cmpc> exit the chroot and run sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra_cmpc> thats it
<alumno04> before all steps do i have to backup anything or they are safe?
<ogra_cmpc> well, remove th e.ko file and run the depmod, update-initramfs and ltsp-update-kernels trio again to revert it :)
<ogra_cmpc> but if you care cp -a /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386.bak
<ogra_cmpc> (with sudo indeed)
<alumno04> ok, thanks
<alumno04> im chrooted. Now, which should be the right place to put the modules?
<alumno04> i though should be /usr/src but inthere there's nothing
<alumno04> ok, i did it :)
<alumno04> now i'll do    depmod -a and update-initramfs -u
<alumno04> wow... errors...
<alumno04> i did:           /tmp# cp * /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-386/kernel/sound/
<alumno04> and then:   depmod -a
<alumno04> but i got:      WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic: No such file or directory  :S
<RichEd> == edubuntu / education meeting in #ubuntu-meeting == 3 mins
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, you hope, eh ?
<RichEd> ogra ... do you mean probloem 1 = attendees or problem 2 = platform team running into our time ?
 * RichEd gets coffee
<ogra_cmpc> QA
<ogra_cmpc> platform was "tonight" at 07:00 UTC (yawn)
 * stgraber waves
<RichEd> Platform Team Meeting * Start: 19:00 * End: 20:00 <- daswwatts fridge ses
 * RichEd waves back
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, fridge is wrong
<ogra_cmpc> (at least i think i didnt dream that i got up after 5h sleep ...)
<alumno04> ogra_cmpc:  when i do depmod -a i got an error:   WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic: No such file or directory
<alumno04> FATAL: Could not open /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/modules.dep.temp for writing: No such file or directory
<daishujin> hey guys, are the logs of the meetings posted anywhere?
<stgraber> !logs | daishujin
<ubotu> daishujin: Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ - See also Â« /msg ubotu ircstats Â»
<daishujin> that's twice that bot has nailed me
 * daishujin stuffs some straw back up his sleeve
#edubuntu 2008-02-21
 * HedgeMage pokes ogra / ogra_cmpc gently, checking if he's awake
<HedgeMage> hi ogra
<LaserJock> I think he's asleep
<HedgeMage> ahh
<HedgeMage> what's up, LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> I could be wrong since he's like always around, but it's 4 or 5am his time
<LaserJock> oh, just trying to get some things done
<LaserJock> had a new laser installed today, very exciting
<HedgeMage> I can never keep track of who's in which time zone
<HedgeMage> fun :)
<achandrashekar> hello.after posting to edubuntu, ubuntu, ubuntu-server Im still having a heck of a time with ldap auth with ltsp. It appears a bug that has been around since Dapper is STILL not resolved. As a result it makes it VERY difficult to promote edubuntu in an Infrastructure environment. Does anyone have a solution or work around for the libnss bug which causes a klog daemon lock up during boot?
<johnny> well, try a newer version that isn't already with dapper?
<achandrashekar> im using 7.10
<achandrashekar> there is no newer version with ltsp
<achandrashekar> 5
<johnny> oh.. you're using gutsy, but the bug was from dapper?
<johnny> you need to stick it out perhaps.. and come on here during their normal hours :)
<johnny> but is there a newer version that isn't in gutsy even?
<johnny> not ltsp, but libnss
<achandrashekar> that is a good question...i suppose there may be a deb out there that I can upgrade to..and see what happens
<achandrashekar> who knows what dependencies it will break though
<johnny> backups are good
<achandrashekar> I cant imagine though...that people who want to use such things as SMBLDAP for other things would "just wait it out"
<achandrashekar> especially when ubuntu is making a public push to be "enterprise ready"
<johnny> it seems that you're blazing a trail here.. using something a subset of a subset of a subset of what people want
<achandrashekar> ya know?
<johnny> sure, but they aren't perfect
<achandrashekar> why blazing a trail? Its a setup that is in the wiki
<johnny> that's why canoncial has a support contract option :)
<achandrashekar> and across two how to's that are posted
<johnny> i wouldn't know.. i've never done anything like that, nor am i affiliated with canoncial either
<achandrashekar> yeah...i get the picture... just very frustrating..
<johnny> but this is truly why they have a contract option
<achandrashekar> it sits in the bug cue...
<johnny> just wanted to mention that, in case you thought i was really involved with edubuntu
<johnny> it'd be nice to find somebody who was doing ltsp stuff locally..
<achandrashekar> yeah..they all use the "out of the box" two nic method
<achandrashekar> and then complain that they cant boot more than 15 boxes.
<achandrashekar> I have an athlon x2 setup with dhcp failover and it works bitchin
<achandrashekar> all i need is this auth piece
<achandrashekar> and im golden
<achandrashekar> so that kind of is why im frustrated.
<achandrashekar> Some long nights putting the pieces together.
<johnny> don't i know it
<achandrashekar> and now i have an unbootable system...
<achandrashekar> damn
<johnny> i had enough troubles getting my 4 client setup working
<johnny> i'm looking forward to hardy
<achandrashekar> but im not here to bitch..(which may come across that way)
<achandrashekar> just trying to get to a point where stuff works.
<achandrashekar> what is the release date for hardy?
<johnny> ubuntu's update policy sometimes causes some fixes not to get included, because the upstream developers  (or others) posted patches that were a bit too invasive
<johnny> april sometime iirc
<achandrashekar> I see. This LDAP thing is like a bread/butter component of any Enterprise system. It is really really important IMHO
<johnny> if i had enough clients , i'm sure i would have already ran into it
<johnny> and tried to resolve it
<johnny> but i'm geeky enough to force it :)
<johnny> trolling irc and forums all over the place
<johnny> and jumping in the code and stuff
<achandrashekar> heh..cool
<achandrashekar> might have to do the same in the debian channel..
<achandrashekar> and see what happens
<achandrashekar> im sure it affects them too.
<johnny> what about the main #ltsp channel
<johnny> that's where you should prolly hang out
<johnny> don't bug the debianers
<johnny> they might be startled
<achandrashekar> not a bad idea.
<johnny> or upset, depending on how they feel about ubuntu
<johnny> being involved in projects is often more about politics than technical issues
<johnny> so you better be careful out there
<achandrashekar> yes...i here you...fork after fork after fork...people upset...and then they hit you with a spoon :)
<achandrashekar> lol
<johnny> most of the folks who are deeply involved in ltsp stuff seem to only come about during US/Europe daytime hours
<johnny> a bit later in europe..but still
<johnny> you always come here around 2-4am my time
<johnny> when nobody else is around
<achandrashekar> oh my
<achandrashekar> i see.
<achandrashekar> its 12 PST time
<achandrashekar> and that is when I wind down...
<achandrashekar> just a few more hours then..i see no problem in waiting.
<achandrashekar> thanks.
<johnny> you wind down by trying to make ltsp work?
<johnny> lol
<johnny> i wish i could afford to work on this stuff fulltime..
<achandrashekar> No...its on my time at a school I work at. I used to be full time IT guy, that basically decided to help students in a low socioecomonic area with Math.
<achandrashekar> But it appears...bad leadership cant be fixed and as a result i wanted to continue to stay sharp
<achandrashekar> in Linux
<achandrashekar> because that world moves REAL fast unlike education.
<achandrashekar> So... I spend my time after school trying to help as well as learn
<achandrashekar> ;)
<achandrashekar> its a tricky proposition
<achandrashekar> philanthropy and eating dont mix to well.
<achandrashekar> hence your comment on paid support makes perfect sense.
<achandrashekar> :)
<johnny> ogra.. we're finally getting the duplicate filenames bug solved
<johnny> in sabayon that is
<johnny> the other things that need badly fixed are some issues when removng panel items
<johnny> which are registered in launchpad
<johnny> it could be related to the duplicate files bug tho
<johnny> when i get the patch in, i'll let you know
<Nubae> hi there...
<Nubae> anyone know if ed(ubuntu) is going to be at fosdem this weekend in brussels?
<Nubae> from what I've read there doesn't seem to be much ubuntu stuff happening there
<juliux> ogra, take a look at http://ubuntu.juliux.de/tassen.jpg
<ogra> juliux, sweet
<juliux> ogra, if you are in hannover give me a hint then you will get a edubuntu mug;)
<ogra_cmpc> juliux, willdo
<jvanrooyen> Hi all, having some difficulties after edubuntu install. I'm trying to login on one of the clients and it gives me this error: this workstation is not authorised to connect to server. Can anyone help?
<ogra_cmpc> jvanrooyen, which release
<jvanrooyen> ogra_cmpc: Gutsy
<ogra_cmpc> sudo lttsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
<ogra_cmpc> copy/paste that line to a terminal on the server
<jvanrooyen> Oh ok, what will that specifically do?
<ogra_cmpc> i guess you changed your IP data after install
<juliux> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-imag
<ogra_cmpc> it will generate new ssh keys for the cdurrently active interfaces and copy them into the client env
<jvanrooyen> oh yes I did
<juliux> that is the correct line vor copy/paste;)
<juliux> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
<juliux> sorry:(
<ogra_cmpc> the second command will recompress the ltsp image so the change gets actually promoted
<jvanrooyen> ogra_cmpc: I did the 1st command
<jvanrooyen> ogra_cmpc: The 2nd command takes some time though
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> it recompresses about 300-400M
<ogra_cmpc> that takes a moment
<jvanrooyen> oh ok its done now
<ogra_cmpc> reboot the clients and it should work
<jvanrooyen> Ok give me a sec I'll let you know now now...
<jvanrooyen> ogra_cmpc: Thanks very much all is good now
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<jvanrooyen> Thanks guys
<jvanrooyen> Yippee
<Vaajda> can someone pls tell me if ubuntu can use 2 internet connection at the same time
<ogra_cmpc> can you elaborate what exactly you mean by "use 2 internet connection at the same time" ?
<ogra_cmpc> in tcp/ip you can only have one default route
<ogra_cmpc> thats not depending on any OS
<ogra_cmpc> s/have/use/
<Vaajda> i want to have 2 connection on 1 pc and use both of them at the same time
<ogra_cmpc> your system can only use one at a time
<RichEd> Vaajda: you mean two network connections ...
<ogra_cmpc> right, thats what i suspect as well
<RichEd> you can have one network interface pointing to your internal network
<RichEd> and the other to the internet
<RichEd> but two interfaces configured to both go to the internet would make your machine unhappy
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> it just would pick one
<Vaajda> i want to use one connection for say ktorrent and the other for the internet and gaming
<ogra_cmpc> well, as i said you can have multiple connections but only one thats used for the default outbound route
<Vaajda> unless i use vwmare
<ogra_cmpc> wven vmware would go through the host systems default interface in the end
<ogra_cmpc> you could probably play with tun/tap interfaces etc
<Vaajda> but i could have 2 ips being vmware makes one computer into 2 or 3
<ogra_cmpc> sure, but the packets will use the hosts default route unless you fiddle with virtual tun/tap interfaces to bend it
<Vaajda> because vwmare isnt a emulator
<ogra_cmpc> it surely possible
<ogra_cmpc> but a lot of work
<Vaajda> its would be cool tho
<Vaajda> it*
<Vaajda> what if i use another computer that is running linux with IP Masquerading
<ogra_cmpc> if that sits on a different DSL line that should work
<johnny> i use that tuntap thing for virtualbox
<johnny> so i cna run it as ltsp
<Vaajda> itsp??
<Vaajda> im a noob to linux
<ogra_cmpc> i use the internal net for vbox to boot virtual clients :)
<ogra_cmpc> Vaajda, Linux Terminal Server Project
<ogra_cmpc> LTSP
<Vaajda> o lol
<johnny> ogra, i can boot internal and external clients tho :)
<ogra_cmpc> i boot my external ones from a real server :)
<johnny> i don't have that much hardware
 * ogra_cmpc is drowning in HW being upstream ltsp for a while you get a lot free HW
<Vaajda> ok i got another question what should i use to play windows based games with
<pygi> :p
<ogra_cmpc> indeeed only the underpowered crap you cant use for anything else but thin clients :P
<pygi> :)
<ogra_cmpc> Vaajda, look at holarse.net some win games run under wine
<ogra_cmpc> they have a section for that on the website somewhere
<Vaajda> its in another lang
<ogra_cmpc> i thought they had english pages
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<Vaajda> man i hate being a noob lol
<ogra_cmpc> linux-games.org then probably ... or google :)
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt play any win games ... so he has no idea
<johnny> i just use wine ..
<johnny> check the wine appdb list for compatibility with your games
<RichEd> johnny: i just use beer ... if i have enough of them then i think snoop dog is cool, not computers
<Vaajda> ok thanks
<Vaajda> i play a mmorpg and when i was using windows (which was like 3 hours ago) the game would work with my computer anymore i think b/c of adware, spyware, etc
<Vaajda> wouldnt
<johnny> running sabayon inside a vbox isn't so fun
<ogra_cmpc> how about running sabayon inside of sabayon ?
 * ogra_cmpc never checked if thats possible
<johnny> supposed to be impossible
<johnny> i've seen the check inside the code
<ogra_cmpc> supposed .....
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<johnny> well.. sabayon isn't running too nicely with xephyr, i tried a quick hack to get it running
<johnny> i see the desktop render , and then it crashes, and then in the console (running via gksu sabayon) i see it hanging on check for texture_from_pixmap
<ogra_cmpc> sounds like compiz
<johnny> it's just problem after problem here :(
<johnny> and i'm mucking around in areas i only understand superficially
<johnny> like autotools stuff
<ogra_cmpc> well, i saked the compiz maintainer about it in -devel
<ogra_cmpc> (he's also teh apt maintainer, so busy with that atm)
<ogra_cmpc> johnny, can you come over to #ubuntu-devel ?
<johnny> it'd be nice if there were some gui tools to manage the global /etc/xdg and /etc/gconf
<ogra_cmpc> i think there are
<ogra_cmpc> desktop-file-utils or so
<johnny> gui?
<johnny> don't look like it to me.
<Vaajd1> ok im about to throw my computer out my window
<Vaajd1> it keeps freezing and i cant use ctrl + alt + backspace
<daishujin> is it a thin client?
<Vaajd1> huh
<Vaajd1> im a noob
<daishujin> Vaajd1, did you install the desktop version of Edubuntu, or the thinclient classroom server
<Vaajd1> unbuntu 7.04
<daishujin> ok
<Vaajd1> #ubuntu would help
<Vaajd1> wounldnt
<daishujin> ok
<daishujin> do you know how to check your logs?
<daishujin> and how long after booting does it take for the computer to freeze?
<Vaajd1> it if i open firefox
<daishujin> hmmmm
<Vaajd1> and i dont know how to check logs but i have to reboot every time
<daishujin> do you know how much RAM your computer has?
<Vaajd1> 1.5 gigs
<Vaajd1> cpu is 2.0 and overclocked to 2.3
<daishujin> ok, and what kind of video card do you have?
<Vaajd1> 256mb ati readion x85pro
<Vaajd1> 850*
<daishujin> ok
<Vaajd1> im trying to upgrade to 7.10 to see if that will fix it
<daishujin> is the computer that is crashing, the one you are talking from now?
<Vaajd1> yeah
<daishujin> can you open up a terminal?
<Vaajd1> yea
<daishujin> ok now try typing 'less /var/log/messages' and maybe send them in a /msg so as not to spam the channel
<Vaajd1> did u get my msg
<daishujin> actually, on second thought maybe 'tail /var/log/messages' might be better
<daishujin> no
<Vaajd1> how do i register my nick
<daishujin> you use nickserv '/msg nickserv register yourpass'
<lovemedo> edubuntu rocks!
<lns> woooooooooo!! Nautilus sighandler bug is fixed and in repos! =) Happy day!
<grezer> Nouroxx its asking this question Please enter the IP address of the ISPConfig web
<grezer> ok now I have a question I am installing ISPCONFIG AHHH and its asking me for " Please enter the IP address of the ISPConfig web "
<grezer> Nouroxx its asking this question Please enter the IP address of the ISPConfig web
<grezer> is that the IP address for my server or my router ??
<grezer> exit
<grezer> exit
#edubuntu 2008-02-22
<nblracer> hey
<TelnetManta> Has anyone seen a version of EduBuntu for EEEPC yet?
<TelnetManta> I've found this already but its not quite what I need: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/ubuntu:eeexubuntu:home
<lns> TelnetManta, you'd probably be able to follow the same procedures to get Ubuntu on the EEE
<lns> I haven't tried it on mine yet, I was able to hack Xandros enough to make me like it =) Got gnome, compiz on it..pretty happy!
<TelnetManta> guess it wont hurt to try it
<caspu> buenas
<caspu> tengo un problemilla con la barra y los applets
<caspu> :P
<caspu> he insertado el de invest
<caspu> y ahora no puedo quitarlo
<caspu> he reiniciado...
<caspu> he ido a sistema preferencias sesion
<TelnetManta> english?
<caspu> ups
<caspu> sorry
<TelnetManta> no I'm sorry for my limited language skills. :-)
<caspu> I have problems with my taskbar
<caspu> I put the applet invest
<caspu> but i can't remove
<caspu> i went to system preferences sessions
<TelnetManta> is this a gdesklet?
<caspu> I think so
<caspu> when you go to click right and add to panel
<TelnetManta> have you tried removing it from ~/.gdesklet
<caspu> you can see accesories
<caspu> there are one say invest
<TelnetManta> delete it
<caspu> ummm
<TelnetManta> if that doesnt work you can run: "gdesklets profile <new profile name>" to create a new gdesklet profile
<caspu> i think is not gdesklets
<caspu> sorry
<TelnetManta> ok
<TelnetManta> thinking
<caspu> i think you don't undestand me
<TelnetManta> so its a launcher then?
<caspu> sorry, because my english is very poor
<caspu> yeh
<caspu> is the normal launcher
<caspu> but i can remove all, but invest
<caspu> is imposible
<caspu> It is imposible
<TelnetManta> hmm
<TelnetManta> no right click and remove option?
<caspu> nope
<caspu> xDDD
<caspu> I dont know where is the system load
<TelnetManta> looking for it
<caspu> yeah me too!! thanks
<caspu> I try one thing I will return
<caspu> I returned
<caspu> no running
<caspu> :(
<TelnetManta> well I guess I give up as well.
<caspu> re
<caspu> TelnetManta,
<caspu> are you here yet?
<caspu> I think you went to sleep
<caspu> :D
<caspu> See you
<caspu> bye
<Nubae> hi, this might be a more generalised ubuntu question, but I'm trying to install a network printer from within a vmware windows xp virtual image, but I can't find the printer...
<Nubae> I'm guessing this is because vmware creates a different subnet for the images to exist on... if anyone has any ideas on how to setup a printer from there, or knows of a website I can look at, I'd be grateful
<nblracer> hey
<caspu> hello all
<caspu> I have a problem. I have a laptop with 2 processadors but only recognises 1. What I can do it?
<nblracer> are they real or is it a p4 with ht
<caspu_> is real
<caspu_> are real
<caspu_> I saw that only work 1 procesador with an applet
<caspu_> With Mandriva I can saw how they both rwork
<annaj> I am having some trouble with local devices on all LTSP terminals.
<annaj> Does anybody kow how to fix that?
<ogra_cmpc> gutsy ?
<annaj> Yes 7.10
<annaj> Where do I learn about DebugLocalDev
<ogra_cmpc> well, sudo gedit /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter
<ogra_cmpc> find the line containing DISPLAY
<ogra_cmpc> delete it ...
<ogra_cmpc> save the file and it should all work
<LaserJock> hi ogra_cmpc
<annaj> Thanks I will have a look at it
<nblracer> hey, any one know if there is a syncing program i can use, that will sync user profile information across 3-5 computers
<ogra_cmpc> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: are we split yet? :-)
<ogra_cmpc> yes we ar
<ogra_cmpc> e
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<ogra_cmpc> the seeds are messed up still though
<ogra_cmpc> i'm waiting until after alpha to sort that
<ogra_cmpc> but edubuntu-desktop is installable fine from g-a-i now
<ogra_cmpc> one crackpoint is still there, i think we need a relogin or reboot notification
<ogra_cmpc> but e-d allows no postinst scripts
<alumno10> hello
<alumno10> how can i change the default boot kernel on clients?
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: so it works just the same as the old addon CD, just with edubuntu-desktop now?
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> thanks again for your awesome work on the app install package
<ogra_cmpc> it was a breze to add e-d
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> glad I was of some use :/
<ogra_cmpc> was ?
<ogra_cmpc> do you plan to drop of the earth ?
<ogra_cmpc> *off
<LaserJock> some days it seems like it
<LaserJock> I'm not getting a lot of sleep and I still have waaaay too much to do :(
<LaserJock> moquist: you there?
#edubuntu 2008-02-23
<ozanichkovsky> I have problem with loading LTSP client (Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: Invalid argument)
<ozanichkovsky> Is there anybody that can help me?
<KillerPacMan> can somebody help me with an install of ubuntu?
<johnny> ogra, what happens to the edubuntu chatroom after it's only an addon cd?
<keit1> hi, i have ubuntu and xubuntu desktops on my machine, and was considering adding edubuntu. what would be the safest way?
<keit1> or would it make more sense to simply add the packages i find useful to ubuntu
<achandrashekar> Hello...I know its the weekend, but was hoping for some insight with setup related issues. I am trying to setup a lab which direly needs ldap authentication to manage accounts. Unfortunately I am running to into a klog daemon boot issue, which keeps my setup from moving forward. Can someone that is using ldap assist??
<johnny> the people who know.. are not here :)
<johnny> i told you this before :)
<johnny> of course.. if i had that kinda setup, i would help
<johnny> but i cannot afford it
<achandrashekar> yeah...i appreciate it Johnny. I appreciate all the help provided thus far. It was "wishful" thinking that some of those people might be here during the weekend.
<achandrashekar> ;)
<johnny> i plan on getting such a setup one day..
<achandrashekar> Ill be playing heavily with my setup today..So, the hope is, that Ill get it working. Ill post my findings if it works out.
<achandrashekar> What I will do is likely NOT use the scripts provided by the samba-ldap script on their website and do it by hand.
<achandrashekar> see if that works out.
#edubuntu 2008-02-24
<eduardo> hello
<eduardo> who use edubuntu here?
<HedgeMage> ogra:  ping
<Nubae> hi, just installed heron alpha4 and get this message when trying to login to a thin terminal: This workstation isn't authorised to connect to server
<Nubae> alpha5 sorry
<stgraber> Nubae: sudo ltsp-update-keys && sudo ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> Nubae: that should fix it
<Nubae> command not found
<Nubae> ah its ltsp-update-sshkeys
<stgraber> right, sorry I'm not on a LTSP system at the moment
<Nubae> nice to to see ati drivers are fixed in heron :-)
<Nubae> thanks stgraber, that worked
<Freewith> Hi. My system makes a system bell sound 5 or 6 times everytime I get to the logon screen or issue a shutdown. Anyone know what's wrong?
<HedgeMage> ping ogra
<pygi> HedgeMage is here!
<HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
<pygi> hey ;)
<pygi> how are you doin'? :)
<HedgeMage> okay :)
<HedgeMage> chatting, cooking, working, and watching LittleFish make playdough dinosaurs
<pygi> :P
<freelinuxpc> hello
<HedgeMage> hello
<freelinuxpc> for anyone with kids, I highly recommend checking out www.glubble.com. The glubble extension for firefox is very cool. I've installed it yesterday and my kids just love it.
<freelinuxpc> sorry to thrown in a link and leave, but gotta let the kids play...bye
#edubuntu 2009-02-16
<mib_qg4fl9tt> need help setting up vnc on edubuntu
<mib_qg4fl9tt> can someone help?
<nothingman> hey, mib
<nothingman> oh, nm
<Meshezabeel> Heya Ahmuck
<nothingman> hi, Mesezabeel
<nothingman> er
<nothingman> if I could type
<nothingman> Meshezabeel
<Meshezabeel> haha, hi nothingman :)
<Meshezabeel> ever heard of TAB completion? :p
<nothingman> heh
<nothingman> Meshezabeel: got it now
<Meshezabeel> :)
<nothingman> didn't realize chatzilla had it
<Meshezabeel> how's your day going?
<nothingman> very well
<nothingman> had a good sales day at my store
<Meshezabeel> awesome :)
<nothingman> actually, a kickass weekend
<Meshezabeel> wow, what do you sell if you don't mind me asking
<nothingman> computers, TVs, scanners, cameras
<nothingman> I work at a RadioShack
<Meshezabeel> ah, I see. Here in Canada all the Radioshack's were closed down/maybe bought out by The Source
<nothingman> so I heard
<nothingman> mine's nice, and I know some people in RS's in the area who I like
<gypsymauro> hi
<gypsymauro> there is a DVD version of edubuntu? or a localized version in italian?
<morehpperliter> hello?
<morehpperliter> Is there a way to reset the network config on an edubuntu LTSP server?
<morehpperliter> I had a bad network card and now none of the PXE's can see it
<alkisg> You changed the network card on the server and now the clients won't boot?
<alkisg> What does `sudo invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server status` say?
<alkisg> morehpperliter: ^^^
<morehpperliter> I am rebooting.
<morehpperliter> Will advise in just a moment.
<morehpperliter> Also is there a reason VNC has trouble connecting?
<morehpperliter> Dhcp3 is running.
<morehpperliter> I suppose it could be another bad NIC
<alkisg> dhcp is running, and the client's don't get an IP address? Maybe you have another dhcp server running in your network?
<morehpperliter> I have them isolated.
<alkisg> Well, try to connect to the server from a normal PC to see if the NIC works ok...
<alkisg> E.g. ssh to the server
<redtoadx> have you tried either tcpdump or ethereal to watch dhcp conversation ?
<morehpperliter> No.
<morehpperliter> I can only see one NIC btw.
<alkisg> Why, how many do you have?
<morehpperliter> two.
<morehpperliter> I thought that was mandatory.
<alkisg> Not really
<morehpperliter> i.e. one to the WAN and one to lan.
<alkisg> If you only see one nic, and the other one's not working, and your clients are connected to the non-working NIC, then... :)
<morehpperliter> great...
<alkisg> What does ifconfig -a give you?
<morehpperliter> I just installed a new. hold on.
<morehpperliter> eth0 is 192.168.1.119
<morehpperliter> and eth2 is 192.168.0.1
<alkisg> And where does dhcp listen on? eth2?
<alkisg> sudo dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server
<morehpperliter> non-authoritative version of DHCP server
<morehpperliter> ...
<ogra> alkisg, UGH !
<ogra> never do that
<alkisg> What? :)
<ogra> dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server
<alkisg> ogra, why not? it works fine...
<ogra> it disables al self test features
<ogra> by forcing an interface
<alkisg> Erm... not really, you may put an empty interface there
<ogra> so your config wont be checked anymore
<ogra> look at the code
<ogra> really, dont put an interface in there
<alkisg> Ah, the ltsp code? OK, I'm hearing you :)
<ogra> no, the dhcpd code
<ogra> simply leave it with the defaults
<ogra> they were selected for a reason :)
<alkisg> ogra: "The interfaces will be automatically detected if this field is left blank."
<morehpperliter> Ok.
<ogra> alkisg, right
<alkisg> That's what I was saying, to check if there was already an interface there (the wrong one, e.g. the non-existent eth1)
<morehpperliter> Top right hand corner next to the sound is a network connections
<morehpperliter> It says.
<morehpperliter> Wired networks (Dell Xtreme ) the onboard
<morehpperliter> -Wired connection 2
<morehpperliter> -Wired connection 1
<morehpperliter> -Auto Eth0
<ogra> alkisg, ah, well, i wouldnt use debconf for that ;) grep IFACE /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<ogra> ;)
<morehpperliter> Auto ethe zero is checked.
<morehpperliter> NExt is
<alkisg> ogra, well, I tried to find this file, but I looked at /etc/dhcpd so I couldn't find it :P :D
<morehpperliter> Wired network (Kingston)
<morehpperliter> Wired connection 2 is checked.
<morehpperliter> Is that right?
<alkisg> morehpperliter: Well, the names of the connections do not mean something (at least to me).
<morehpperliter> Ok.
<morehpperliter> I was trying to find out if the defaults were still right.
<alkisg> Do this: cat /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<alkisg> And paste here the INTERFACES line
<ogra> by default it should be INTERFACES=""
<morehpperliter> INTERFACES="eth2"
<ogra> if not, make it look like that
<ogra> is eth2 physically the device your thin client network is connected to ?
<morehpperliter> Yes. I have it connected to  a swtich.
<morehpperliter> I have also tried direct.
<ogra> and you are sure the devices are the right way round, the cable isnt in the wrong one
<morehpperliter> pretty sure.
<morehpperliter> Though I cannot connect to IRC on it ...
<morehpperliter> So maybe something else is up.
<ogra> you might have mixed up the two interfaces ... try changing the cables around
<alkisg> ogra, btw, why /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is used instead of /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf ?
<ogra> alkisg, so that installing ltsp-server-standalone doesnt break your dhcp setup
<ogra> that way admins can just delete /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf which is a conffile, and dpkg will respect that ... you can easily go on using /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf and we dont need to mangle existing configs
<morehpperliter> Nope
<morehpperliter> I am changing cables completely.
<morehpperliter> JIC
<ogra> and if you dont use /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf yet, it will provide you a default config that works out of the box (at least from CD installs)
<alkisg> Ah! I didn't know that if /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf was deleted, then /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf would be used... Thanks, ogra
<ogra> the trick is that we use the dpkg conffile mechanism which means it will never be restored
<alkisg> morehpperliter: why don't you try pinging the server from another PC? It's a lot more easier to test connectivity with ping than messing with dhcp server...
<morehpperliter> I deleted the wired connection 1 and 2.
<morehpperliter> I am online now.
<ogra> ok, at least one cable is right and at least one connection is configure crorrectly then
<ogra> can you put the output of ifconfig -a and the content of /etc/network/interfaces on paste.ubuntu.com for us ?
<morehpperliter> yes.
<head> http://paste.ubuntu.com/118886/
<morehpperliter> Its called head...
<morehpperliter> For some reason.
<ogra> you still didnt fox your /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<ogra> *fix
<ogra> remove eth2 there
<ogra> and show the content of your /etc/network/interfaces as well
<head> Im confused
<head> How do you want me to remove it?
<ogra> edit the file, so it looks like: INTERFACES=""
<alkisg> sudo vi /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<ogra> or sudo nano /etc/default/dhcp3-server if you dont get along with vi
<morehpperliter> How do I write out?
<ogra> with vi ?
<morehpperliter> ctrl-o
<morehpperliter> and ctrl-x
<morehpperliter> Sorry.
<morehpperliter> Not enough coffee bit of a linux-newb
<head> Okay so I blacked it out.
<ogra> thats fine, we all started somewhere :)
<head> Okay so I blanked it out.
<ogra> good
<head> I'm more into hardware hacking.
<ogra> now paste the content of your /etc/network/interfaces file
<ogra> cat /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> and drop that inot paste.ubuntu.com
<ogra> *into
<head> http://paste.ubuntu.com/118889/
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/118886/ shows that you dont have an eth1
<alkisg> ogra, I think it'd be easier if he modified  /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules to change eth2 to eth1
<alkisg> He changed NICs
<ogra> but http://paste.ubuntu.com/118889/ hows that you tried to configure it
<ogra> aha
<ogra> ok
<ogra> sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> replace eth1 with eth2
<ogra> in line 13 and 14 of http://paste.ubuntu.com/118889/
<head> got it.
<ogra> save the file and reboot ... all should work then
<head> ok.
<head> Thanks.
<morehpperliter> Thanks so much.
<ogra> alkisg, well, easier is relative :)
<ogra> alkisg, but yes, that would be an option as well
<morehpperliter> this has been an enjoyable Irc visit.
<alkisg> Yeah, but he may get into trouble later on with eth0 and eth2 with no eth1... he'll mix them up :)
<ogra> come back if you have more questions :)
<ogra> alkisg, given that there will never be an eth1 i doubt that will be an issue
<Lns> gooooooood morning vietnaaaam! =p
<alkisg> Heeeey Lns :)
<ogra> eth0 is always the outbound facing interface ... and *the other* is the TC interface :)
<ogra> not to hard to keep in mind
<Lns> hey alkisg, ogra =)
<ogra> hey Lns
<morehpperliter> cool its getting farther than before!
<morehpperliter> Am I limited to on query a day?
<ogra> heh
<morehpperliter> Am I limited to one query a day?
<ogra> yu have to send more virtual beer for more queries :)
<morehpperliter> I have  a keg.
<morehpperliter> IS remote connection disabled in edubuntu?
<morehpperliter> I am getting the error no matchin security types.
<alkisg> Lns, about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/277069/comments/13 - did you try `chattr`? Gadi proposed it to me for a similar problem, and it was OK as a workaround...
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 277069 in libxcb "Java slow on remote X" [Low,Incomplete]
<Lns> alkisg: that is a good idea. Just hope it wouldn't cause any package upgrades/ldconfig to fail and leave anything in limbo by not being able to replace that symlink
<Lns> Was thinking of implementing chattr attributes for .desktop files that i customize too so they don't get overwritten upon program upgrade
<Lns> its just hard to keep note of all the "little things" I do to a server, to keep track =) I need to implement a wiki for all the servers i care for
<alkisg> Lns, I've no idea, I tried it for pxelinux.cfg/default (not in a package) and for some other file in /etc (don't remember which), and had no problem so far...
<Lns> alkisg: yeah.. im sure it would probably work fine
 * Lns wants to implement a gui for automated thin-client shutdown/startup that can be used by "normal" techs (i.e. don't like the commandline) - to alter times for shutdown/startup...and possibly package it with some help
<alkisg> Lns, you already have the scripts, don't you? It should be easy to use pygtk or something...
<Lns> alkisg: well they're not really scripts as much as howtos
<Lns> not sure how much i can put into an automated script thing..they use cron - so i think i could probably just use root user-based cron jobs instead of altering /etc/crontab, etc.
<morehpperliter> On setting up LTSP cient...
<morehpperliter> Disconnecting: que, disconnect, sock, done
<morehpperliter> [  18.719276] nbd0: Recieve control failed (result -32)
<morehpperliter> Any thoughts?
<ogra> how did you install ltsp on the server ?
<morehpperliter> Alternative install disk. [F4 ]
<morehpperliter> Intstall LTSP server.
<ogra> hmm, that should be fine then
<ogra> did you change other setup options like the  dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server you did ?
<ogra> oh, and does it actually stop booting at that point ?
<morehpperliter> I dont think I changed anything else.
<morehpperliter> And yes it stops.
<morehpperliter> I'm using rom-o-matic's ehterboot.
<ogra> that should be fine
<morehpperliter> Trying it with a EEE's I get a vsync error. Which I expected due to screen size.
<morehpperliter> resolution...
<ogra> but it finishes booting ?
<morehpperliter> No
<morehpperliter> Kernel panic.
<morehpperliter> I have an MSI wind sitting here.
<morehpperliter> Let me grab another machine...
<ogra> how do you get to a vsync error if you have a kernel panic ?
<ogra> X starts way after the kernel has booted
<morehpperliter> Sorry.
<morehpperliter> It's a sync error.
<ogra> hmm
<morehpperliter> usb  problems.
<ogra> ah
<ogra> what did you say you use ? 8.10 ?
<morehpperliter> Newest.
<ogra> lsb_release -r
<ogra> what does that tell you ?
<morehpperliter> 8.20
<morehpperliter> 8.10
<morehpperliter> Sorry..
<ogra> ok
<ogra> if you use modern HW like an eee or wind you should use PXE rather
<ogra> instead of etherboot
<morehpperliter> right I am.
<ogra> newer HW ususally has PXE capable network cards
<morehpperliter> I get the USB error.
<ogra> you said you use rom-o-matic
<ogra> thats etherboot or gpxe
<morehpperliter> Yes.
<ogra> not PXE
<morehpperliter> On a way old gates computer.
<ogra> ah
<morehpperliter> I also have a eee that is going straight into PXE.
 * ogra must admit he's a bit out of ideas, probably the guys in #ltsp have more ...
<morehpperliter> Ok thanks.
<Lns> morehpperliter: both machines can't boot?
<morehpperliter> Yup.
<Lns> morehpperliter: did you customize your chroot at all?
<morehpperliter> Nope.
<Lns> morehpperliter: have you upgraded your chroot to latest packages?
<morehpperliter> I ran all updates. Can I manually force this?
<ogra> Lns, he'S running 8.10, that should be fine with the default set
<Lns> ogra: k..just going through the motions :)
<ogra> right, dont let me stop you :)
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> morehpperliter: you ran all updates INSIDE the chroot?
<Lns> or just on the server?
<morehpperliter> Is there a way I can check this?
<morehpperliter> Just the server I suppose.
<Lns> morehpperliter: this howto is for hardy, so change it for ibex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
<Lns> ogra: real quick, it's a good idea to mount --bind /dev in chroot when upgrading right? I always get a "cannot open /dev/pty blah blah" when upgrading.. if so, can you give me the best mount cmd to put into the howto?
<ogra> no, no good idea
<Lns> ogra: umm... not a good idea, or yes a good idea? :)
<ogra> not a good idea
<Lns> oh
<Lns> ok, sounds like a plan to me hehe
<ogra> blindly giving the chroot access to all servers HW is never a good idea ....
<ogra> if anything goes wrong you trash the complete server
<Lns> gotcha
<ogra> sudo chroot $ROOT mkdir -p /dev/pts
<ogra> sudo chroot $ROOT mount -t devpts devpts -o noexec,nosuid,gid=5,mode=620 /dev/pts
<ogra> and dont forget to unmount it at the end
<Lns> ogra: does ltsp-update-image look for mounted /dev/pts as it does /proc?
<ogra> nope
<Lns> k
<ogra>  /dev/pts isnt needed for anything
<Lns> ogra: maybe just easier to disregard those msgs then
<ogra> its just cosmetic
<Lns> ok...i'll just put a note in there to disregard it
<ogra> ltsp-update-image could grow a mount command indeed
<ogra> like the above
<ogra> file a whishlist bug and add my two lines to it :)
<Lns> ok =)
<morehpperliter> was that for me?
<Lns> ogra: bug for ltsp upstream or ltsp ubuntu (both?)
<morehpperliter> Cause I'm done now...
<ogra> ubuntu
<Lns> k
<ogra> its apt thats complaining about pts
<Lns> oh yeah..duhy
<Lns> duh*
<morehpperliter> Still the same problem.
<Lns> ogra: just fyi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/330194
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 330194 in ltsp "ltsp-update-image should grow a 'mount' command for /dev/pts" [Undecided,New]
<morehpperliter> wind booted fine
<Lns> sbalneav: 'morning! Can you give me any updated info on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/281498 ? I noticed while on-site at a school last Friday that all the clients still hang for a good amount of time (up to 30sec) and also causes other booting clients to not receive a DHCP lease (guessing due to heavy server i/o?)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 281498 in ltsp "/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup has bashisms" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<morehpperliter> Cool thanks folks.
<Lns> morehpperliter:  ? you got it going?
<morehpperliter> Some what.
<morehpperliter> Not nearly as bulletproof as I was told..
<Lns> morehpperliter: it's strange that you'd be having these issues right off the bat
<morehpperliter> Not one of my king Midas days.
<morehpperliter> So do I setup individual User accounts now?
<morehpperliter> I think I may have been premature in my thought that the original machine wasnt working...
<morehpperliter> The cursor is still blinking.
<Lns> ?
<stgraber> Lns: around ?
<Lns> stgraber: howdy!
<Lns> happy 3:33. ;)
<stgraber> Lns: hi, just got a bunch of mail from LP about your nbd bug, when exactly are they crashing ?
<Lns> stgraber: they *hang* at "Negotiation: "
<stgraber> so when they're reconnecting the NBD ?
<stgraber> or right after the initramfs ?
<Lns> stgraber: during swapfile creation i believe.
<Lns> lemme dig up the code
<stgraber> is that with stock Intrepid ?
<stgraber> because I fixed that race condition in Jaunty and in my PPA for Intrepid
<stgraber> at least I used to have that bug with some powerful thin clients and now it continues booting just fine (the kernel message is the expect behavior, nothing weird there)
<Lns> stgraber: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/253 - no, it's hardy.
<Lns> i know, hardy is ancient... :)
<Lns> the quote issue has been fixed, and that might *help* the issue, i need to test. I hadn't done that fix at all my sites
<Lns> in:   if [ -n "$(ps ax|grep nbd$i)" ]; then
<stgraber> oh, Hardy :) I have no idea what we have in Hardy's init scripts :)
<stgraber> I fixed a few NBD issues in Intrepid and tried to clean up most of the init scripts
<Lns> stgraber: any possibility of an SRU for hardy? pretty please? :)
<stgraber> if someone does it yes :)
<Lns> I can test it!
<stgraber> I don't have the time required to cherry-pick the fixes and prepare a SRU
<Lns> I'm not good enough to cherry pick them
<stgraber> doing a SRU for Hardy will fix a lot of bugs for sure but will also take a lot of time as most things have been rewritten upstream since then :)
<stgraber> well, I already gave up doing the SRUs for Intrepid so for Hardy ...
<Lns> when's the next lts out?
<Lns> that's my determining factor for upgrading.
<Lns> (as many others)
<stgraber> for now my LTSP work is: Make it rocks in the current devel release and backport everything to the previous one
<stgraber> I unfortunately don't have the time to do the updates :(
<stgraber> likely 10.04
<Lns> stgraber: Yeah, that's what I get from most devs unfortunately :) the testing releases are always priority over stable
<Lns> ugh..that's a long time
<Lns> I sure wish there was an easier mechanism for getting things into Hardy..like an LTS update team or something
<Lns> there's no way production environments can run a non-stable release
<Lns> i tried...it was too much for me. way too much
<stgraber> what I do for my customers with LTSP cluster is: Application server running the latest stable (currently Intrepid), nbd root on the latest stable (currently Intrepid) and all the infrastructure (dns, dhcp, web servers, ldap, ltsp-cluster services) on LTS
<stgraber> with LTSP being a backport from the devel version
<stgraber> I usually test the new devel version on my own network (at home), then at the office, then pushed to my customers
<Lns> I dunno about running the ibex on all my servers
<Lns> i know its considered stable, but its definitely not as worked through as hardy
<stgraber> for application servers its fine and if you want working localapps, you don't have the choice as hardy's ssh is too old
<Lns> for one simple thing to go wrong with any aspect of the system, i have 7 techs screaming at me
<Lns> right...localapps is one thing that lures me
<Lns> my situation is that i'm the only one that administrates (in this fashion) my 9 LTSP networks
<stgraber> well, I manage >3k thin clients network and >30k users each :)
<Lns> so any changes need to be absolutely bulletproof
<Lns> stgraber: yeah but you're not the only one! =)
<Lns> you have backup, i don't ;)
<stgraber> currently, we're 2 or 3 to manage 5 school districts or something like that :)
<stgraber> I'm mainly doing the devel and debug part of the work though
<Lns> stgraber: you work for canonical right? or no?
<stgraber> nope
<Lns> oh! thought you did.
<stgraber> Revolution Linux
<Lns> oh wow, didn't realize
<Lns> the pulse flash guys! ;)
<LaserJock> Lns: -updates does need to be fairly bulletproof
<Lns> LaserJock: for ibex or hardy?
<LaserJock> both
<Lns> well
<Lns> which one is *more* bulletproof ;)
<stgraber> rules are the same
<LaserJock> that's why we need people testing -proposed
<Lns> and which one, overall, has less issues?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure
<stgraber> not sure actually :)
<Lns> heh
<Lns> well
<LaserJock> depends on the packages
<stgraber> I tend to report bugs in Intrepid and make sure they're fixed there
<stgraber> not in Hardy
<Lns> OOo, firefox..
<stgraber> so desktop is probably better in Intrepid I'd say
<stgraber> Hardy is probably better for the server part though
<Lns> but things move so much faster with non-lts...new bugs are introduced with new packages that are just waiting to be reported
<Lns> the timed release thing is a positive thing for lts
<LaserJock> I don't think there's any difference with LTSes
<LaserJock> substantial differences anyway
<Lns> well what the hell makes it LTS worthy then?! =p
<LaserJock> it has longer term support
<LaserJock> hence L T S ;-)
<Lns> support != bugfixes though, obviously
<Lns> since they're getting fixed in the newer versions first
<LaserJock> it can
<stgraber> I'm usually using OpenVZ (chroot with resource limitations and network emulation) for my systems. The host being hardy, then each service is in its own VZ with its own IP and the best release for it
<LaserJock> it generally has the same level of support, just for a longer about of time
<stgraber> so for a DNS server I'd use unbound from Intrepid, for a web server, hardy, for an application server, intrepid, ...
<stgraber> advantage of OpenVZ being how fast it's, it's basically improved chroot so no side-effect like real virtualization (xen/kvm)
 * Lns wonders why he always gets confused when discussing benefits of LTS vs. non-LTS
<stgraber> currently my rule is that all physical server must run a LTS release (so I don't have to upgrade the host every 1.5 year), then run OpenVZ VMs in whatever release is the best
<Lns> I would have to assume that being on a LongTermSupport version means that you are supported for a longer amount of time...but it seems the support provided is second-tier to the non-LTS (read: devel) versions, which imho, is a complete oxymoron situation
<LaserJock> well, it's more *length* than *amount* of support
<LaserJock> nah, it's just not always easy
<Lns> LaserJock: well that's like saying "For the more stable version, we'll support you for longer, but you have to wait longer for fixes, if we even backport/SRU it"
<Lns> which is like a false sense of stability
<stgraber> well, developers should be focusing on developing. Though that means a second group of people who take care of the updates, unfortunately there isn't enough of them.
<LaserJock> it's also harder to backport as you go along
<Lns> i understand
<LaserJock> so Hardy got a heck of a lot updates early on
<stgraber> Lns: who said "more stable" ? We're just speaking about long term support, imho Hardy wasn't a good release
<LaserJock> now that Intrepid is out it's hard to do more
<stgraber> we had to wait 8.04.1 to get something really stable
<Lns> stgraber: well that's the thing. you'd think support == stability, since it's being supported
<Lns> it just seems so weird to me.
<LaserJock> well, support is support
<LaserJock> stability ends up being how much you screw around with things
<LaserJock> compared to when you started
<Lns> LaserJock: not if there's issues with the stock binaries/scripts
#edubuntu 2009-02-17
<Lns> which is the case with ltsp-client-setup
<LaserJock> ok, but you still gotta do the work
<LaserJock> that's the problem
<stgraber> Lns: well for LTSP, we didn't do it for Intrepid either so ... :)
<LaserJock> when you gotta support 3-4 releases while also trying to get a new release out
<LaserJock> it can get really hard to prioritize
<Lns> LaserJock: Yeah, it sounds a bit crazy, doesn't it?
<stgraber> Lns: it's clearly a manpower issue, I did some good job for Jaunty (I believe) but I could still use some people doing the SRU work because I just don't have a minute for that :)
<Lns> stgraber: Here's the million dollar question
<Lns> What can a non-programmer do to help LTS releases become more stable?
<LaserJock> report and test
<Lns> besides filing SRU requests and twiddling his thumbs?
<ogra> right, teast early
<Lns> LaserJock: I do both...
<ogra> *before* release
<stgraber> report bugs and test fixes. I can easily find people to do these two but I need someone to actually do the fix :)
<LaserJock> Lns: awesome
<stgraber> ogra: +1
<LaserJock> heck yeah
<LaserJock> that's we've *never* gotten people to do much
<Lns> how can one test a pre-release without a complete test environment with the same users, etc?
<stgraber> for now, I'm mainly focusing on providing a stable LTSP in the next release so hopefully we won't need SRU for Jaunty :)
<Lns> stgraber: I fear you are too optimistic for your own good ;)
<stgraber> Lns: I have a backport of current LTSP in my PPA
<stgraber> Lns: so you can run it on Intrepid (sorry, no Hardy :))
<Lns> not downplaying anything you do whatsoever.. it just never works that way (for me anyway) :)
<stgraber> and have some people using it and reporting bugs
<ogra> well, i personally think that ltsp5 is nearly in the state of going into maintenance mode ... which means devs can focus on polish and cleanup, all features are there
<Lns> ogra: but with the underlying software constantly changing...there will always be issues that come up
<ogra> within the next one or two releases you should only have to adjust to distro specific changes that show up in a new release
<Lns> by underlying i mean OS
<ogra> right
<ogra> but the past of ltsp was always focused on feature development
<ogra> the rest was held together by duct tape
<LaserJock> there's a whole lotta duct tape around here ;-)
<ogra> nobody had the time to look at replacing the interim solutions with better ones
<stgraber> running Jaunty's LTSP in production helped a lot for the bugfix part :)
<ogra> now ltsp itself is at the feature completeness state
<Lns> ogra: !!! you can't say that, i have so many ideas! =)
<ogra> so the interim solutions can actually be improved
<ogra> Lns, send patches then :)
<ogra> *before* release :P
<Lns> ogra: =p~
<stgraber> hmm, my LTSP todolist is quite small actually but that's the by-Thursday one so ... :) (feature freeze)
<ogra> shellscripts arent *that* hard
<LaserJock> that's the thing, we gotta  do stuff *before* release
<stgraber> Lns: by thursday actually if that's a new feature :)
<Lns> well i don't see any feasable way to test pre-release releases in the same environment that needs to be stable 24x7...
<Lns> and i know, stable != lts
<Lns> but to me, it is because the app software/etc doesn't change
<LaserJock> Lns: that's precisely why we have problems
<LaserJock> we need to figure out how to test this stuff
<Lns> LaserJock: I hate to say it but it seems to me that the release priorities are just ...off.
<ogra> ??
<LaserJock> Lns: how so?
<Lns> well
<dtchen> Lns: why not ask the launchpad developers? they run edge and staging alongside the stable production.
<Lns> just look at my example...i run LTS because I can't handle daily updates, updates breaking apps/functionality, etc
<dtchen> all three (edgy, staging, stable production) access the same db
<Lns> I run it because it's been run over with a fine toothed comb by hundreds of people over a longer period of time
<dtchen> s/edgy/edge/
<LaserJock> Lns: Hardy was getting much more updates than Intrepid
<Lns> I've done the non-LTS route before. I can't go that route again because i just trade old bugs for new ones.
<LaserJock> sure
<Lns> it's a catch 22.
<LaserJock> yep
<ogra> well, it also had the hint o not pgrade production systems before 8.04.1
<ogra> *to
<LaserJock> that's why you gotta make sure to test before implementing
<Lns> ogra: and i don't try to do that either, at least for the next one. Hardy was the first LTS i stood tall on.
<stgraber> I don't run regular Intrepid (-updates + -security) but running it with -proposed I only get one or two update a week in average and it's probably a lot less if you don't have -proposed
<ogra> *especially* because theer was the hope to get bugs and testing from people running the actual 8.04
<ogra> since we dont get neough testing before release
<ogra> it all boils down to comunity participation in QA during the development releases
<ogra> only if you have that you can do quality releases
<ogra> ubuntu turned definately from a participant distro into a consume distro over the releases ... and thats the prob here
<ogra> not the release policy
<ogra> *consumer
<Lns> ogra: I agree...but the biggest roadblock for people in my situation is that I don't have the resources to have a fully featured test lab for this stuff, and i simply can't run my clients' servers on stuff for testing and reporting purposes. Students need to learn, and they need a system with as few bugs as possible to do this effectively.
<Lns> it's not LTSP, or Ubuntu, it's just stability.
<LaserJock> so the question is, how can we get pre-release testing going better
<Lns> I wish I could, truly. /me looks at his Ubuntu hoodie he's wearing right now - but I have to run my business so my clients dont dump me.
<Lns> LaserJock: good q
<stgraber> It's probably because I'm both upstream+packager but I tend to prefer my users running a recent version that I know I can fix and publish the fix than running an old "stable" version where the users will just get stuck with that annoying bug for weeks/months before it gets fixed
<Lns> I have an answer, but canonical doesn't like it for some reason
<Lns> which is strange, because it involves me giving them $$$
<Lns> and probably tons of others
<LaserJock> you want to pay for a test lab?
<Lns> I would be MORE than willing to pay for LTS support, if it promised quick SRUs (at least as quick as bugfixes in devel releases) and it wasn't on a per-server basis. More like a per-SRU basis..
<Lns> LaserJock: yeah, and pay two hundred kids to beat the crap out of it every day ;)
<ogra> well, then rather pay fifty fultime devs and donate their worktime to the project ;)
<ogra> instead of 200 kids
<ogra> (you will run into less legal probs with that as well *g*)
<stgraber> I guess one fulltime would probably be enough for the SRU part :)
<Lns> ogra: exactly.
<Lns> I thought about registering just one site as my "supported" site so i could get affordable lts support, but i don't want to cheat.
<Lns> I just want to pay canonical to fix bugs in hardy for me and my clients, no matter how many clients I have.
<Lns> for the same price, since it's still just one bug.
<LaserJock> Lns: well, it's not exactly easy
<Lns> I understand
<LaserJock> for instance, there isn't anybody currently to do so
<Lns> but money helps, right? at least for the cherry picking, non-fun things.
<Lns> and last time i heard, canonical wanted money. ;)
<LaserJock> I don't know actually
<LaserJock> Mark's got ~ $1bil.
<LaserJock> I'm sure Canonical wants money, but I'm not sure that's the blocker
<Lns> what could be then? Lots of coders want paying jobs
<Lns> and paying jobs require them to do things that might not be so much fun, but they get a paycheck.
<Lns> so....
<Lns> what better development cycle would it be to have the people at the top be true OSS programmers, who do things the way they do now, and then employ people to fix their mistakes when they don't have time to?
<Lns> (payed by people like me, who get paid from companies/schools to deploy and service the networks the OSS runs on)
<LaserJock> generally I think the paid people just keep things kinda going
<LaserJock> community management, etc.
<Lns> LaserJock: the currently paid people at canonical you mean?
<LaserJock> I mean we don't have any paid people
<LaserJock> so the things that paid people can do are largely management and gap-filling
<Lns> LaserJock: why? Why can't canonical employ people for SRU work in LTS releases which they get paid big $$ for ?
<ogra> who is dong the interviews ?
<Lns> ogra: management?
<Lns> am i thinking of canonical wrong?
<ogra> the only competent people that can judge if soeone is qualified are the persons working 16h/day already
<Lns> ogra: intriguing, and you're right
<Lns> how bout a community-based hiring process
<Lns> voting, karma, etc.
<LaserJock> but we don't really have anybody
<ogra> if your applicants come from the community that helps indeed
<LaserJock> but if we're building community in the first place
<Lns> ogra: exactly.
<stgraber> do we have anyone doing LTSP work and willing to do it fulltime that's currently unemployed ? :)
<LaserJock> we can more or less solve the problem
<ogra> but we're at a growth rate where the community starts to get drained
<Lns> right, and that will always be the case
<Lns> as it is with any company
<Lns> or project
<Lns> or anything in life really...you do what you can do until you can't, then you get others' help
<ogra> where are these others Ã
<ogra> ?
<Lns> and it gets bigger, and more people start using ubuntu, therefore more work is to be done for the people using it
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats what i meant by "consumer distro"
<Lns> ogra: the "others" are people that want to be paid canonical employees
<LaserJock> yeah, it really has changed
<ogra> the amount of users largely outweights the amount of developers
<ogra> and the amount of users still grows
<Lns> hopefully that will always be the case :)
<ogra> Lns, which others
<Lns> we do want more users, right?
<LaserJock> the amount of users grows but the number of devs isn't
<ogra> send me some resumes for good ARM people
<Lns> ogra: i can post a craigslist ad right now that would do the trick
<ogra> and i'll have some extra time for ltsp
<Lns> or monster.com, or careerbuilder.com....or whatever else
<ogra> me currently does the work for three planned positions that are not filled
<stgraber> ogra: argh, still haven't found some goods embeded developers ?
<ogra> and yes, we're doing plenty of interviews every week
<Lns> "WANTED: Experienced open-source developer wanted for ARM architecture work on Ubuntu operating system."
<ogra> stgraber, two more already, but still two to go
<LaserJock> and Edubuntu still lacks somebody
<LaserJock> which would make SRUs a lot easier, IMO
<ogra> Lns, right and you get 100 rplies of which 90 are windows admins that had a 1 week linux training in their last NT4 admin job
<Lns> ogra: grep the resumes. :)
<Lns> wow, hail!
<stgraber> Lns: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/ is usually well-known among people with Ubuntu experiences and looking for a job
<ogra> Lns, grepping insnt enough ... you have to read them ...
<ogra> any idea how much worktime you burn reading 100 resumes 5 ages each ?
<ogra> *pages
<ogra> its a painfully slow process to find the best guys
<Lns> ogra: how about this: require very strict guidelines for the resume. Require ODF format. Require them to state which projects they've worked on, with code/patch examples, etc.
<Lns> Less resumes, better quality.
<LaserJock> well, you need to difne clearly the problem we're trying to solve
<ogra> and you miss the one super talented guy who is just bad in writing resumes :P
<LaserJock> we can talk Human Resources for a while
<Lns> ogra: =p there's always a risk!
<LaserJock> but I think that's a side issue
<ogra> right, it is
<LaserJock> the issue is SRUs and in general growing dev community
<ogra> but hiring good people is a slow process thats what i wanted to point out :)
<Lns> LaserJock: isn't it safe to say that SRUs are "less fun" to provide than simply fixing the dev code?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Lns> ok
<LaserJock> more paperwork
<LaserJock> but some people dig it
<ogra> fixing the dev code is always easier
<Lns> so, the current developers want to fix dev code, which means we have less devs for SRUs
<ogra> the prob is that the probem isnt known while the code is dev code
<LaserJock> Lns: I don't think it's an interest problem
<ogra> so we're back to "test *before* release"
<stgraber> I can upload a new release of ltsp/ldm/ltspfs/italc/... in a few seconds but it takes weeks and paperwork for a SRU, which one do I choose ? :)
<Lns> LaserJock: hrm
<Lns> stgraber: hrrrmmm
 * Lns churns
<LaserJock> it's time-consuming work and it involved a fair amount of coordination
<LaserJock> and we're supposed to fix things in dev releases first
<Lns> right
<LaserJock> what we need is more hands
<Lns> but that's bad news for service companies like mine
<LaserJock> it's bad news for everybody
<Lns> we almost need a spin-off company that handles only SRUs for slower moving LTS releases
<LaserJock> why?
<Lns> because it could provide the resources necessary to handle SRUs?
<Lns> LaserJock what we need is more hands
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> we need more hands, period
<Lns> rihgt
<LaserJock> you're not likely to hire people just to do SRUs
<Lns> but we need more hands for SRUs specifically in this conversation
<Lns> why not?
<Lns> I would
<LaserJock> because it's not exactly exciting work
<Lns> neither is janitorial services
<Lns> but people need to survive, and you need money to survive
<Lns> (unfortunately)
<LaserJock> no, but you don't have the janitor teaching your important classes
<Lns> sure, but they keep the bathrooms clean, so people don't get sick
<Lns> just as important
<LaserJock> SRUs are one of the most difficult dev tasks
<stgraber> unfortunately the same people will get an interresting job from someone else then (involving development, not SRU ...)
<Lns> blargh
<stgraber> you need developers for SRU and developers don't like doing SRUs because they like to actually develop the software :)
<LaserJock> bottom line though, we need more people
<Lns> you guys are too pessimistic for me :)
<LaserJock> nah ;-)
<Lns> hehe
<LaserJock> I just think we need to think a bit simpler here
<LaserJock> we need hands
<Lns> stgraber: developers will do what they don't like because they get paid. They won't get paid for fun dev work, because that doesn't pay.
<LaserJock> that will fix a lot of things
<stgraber> Lns: well, I'm being paid for fun dev work :)
<Lns> stgraber: good for you, you're a lucky one apparently :)
<Lns> as long as the community is still the focus, and the community is what decides on important issues (stability of SRUs, fixes, everything), i don't see what would be a downfall of employing SRU specific coders.
<Lns> there's a business model that screams out for this already, i'm just one small company that would make use of it.
<LaserJock> you need *people*
<LaserJock> SRU will take care of itself
<LaserJock> you want the people who put the code in the dev release to put it in -updates
<Lns> LaserJock: why?
<Lns> why not have those people focus on -dev work, and employ people to fix bugs, and simply look over them to make sure they're good?
<LaserJock> because the person who changes the code initially is the best to propogate them
<Lns> we're still keeping the power with the people who need it.
<Lns> LaserJock: that's a mindset that keeps any project from truly evolving.
<Lns> no offense at all intended of course.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> non taken
<LaserJock> but I've been at this a little while
<Lns> case in point though: my dad was an appliance repairman.
<Lns> he didn't want to trust any of his business to anyone, because he was the mastermind.
<Lns> so he never hired anyone.
<LaserJock> you have multiple people touching the same code you easily end up with things falling through the cracks and long delays
<Lns> He did the books, the labor, the relations.
<Lns> And he was so burnt out that things started slipping through the cracks, and nothing was 'ideal'.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but I think that's a good case for teamwork
<Lns> sure
<LaserJock> not necessarily multiple people touching the same code
<Lns> what's the diff?
<LaserJock> because, for a given change, the same person should drive that change
<LaserJock> however multiple people can be working in parallel
<Lns> so what's with "give me a patch and I'll implement it" speak of so many OSS project maintainers?
<LaserJock> that's what I'm talking about
<LaserJock> but I'm saying "implement" = "implement wherever it needs to go"
<LaserJock> I'm looking at a bug fix as a discrete object
<LaserJock> if you fix it somewhere, fix it *everywhere*
<Lns> sure, of course.
<Lns> it's portable, more dynamic and easily modified.
<Lns> so how about the devs fixing the bugs in -devel, passing the patches to the SRU people and say "make it work in LTS." After that, review the SRU patches and give it the go ahead.
<Lns> the devs will always know what's going on, but the hard/crappy work is handed to someone else.
<LaserJock> or ... have the dev people do SRUs where appropriate :-)
<Lns> LaserJock: as you said, we don't have enough to do that.
<Lns> and it's not as fun.
<LaserJock> ok, but that's not gonna change
<Lns> sure it can
<LaserJock> as you get people you get SRUs
 * Lns has to leave in a couple min
<Lns> LaserJock: what's the harm in people that specialize in SRUs though?
<Lns> there already are, right?
<LaserJock> no
<Lns> wouldn't that be a good thing(tm) ?
<LaserJock> not in my opinion
<Lns> they'd be experts in backporting/cherry picking.
<stgraber> backporting/cherry picking also means knowing the software you're working on
<Lns> they're still managed by the devs..but they do the heavy lifting
<stgraber> otherwise you'll just break things
<Lns> stgraber: ^^^
<LaserJock> yep
<Lns> its just enlistment of extra help.
<LaserJock> then let's enlist help *period*
<LaserJock> that will fix more than just the SRU issue
<Lns> LaserJock: remember, dev work is more fun than SRU work. they'll always go away to do something more fun for free.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> that's not right
<LaserJock> people will do what needs to get done
<Lns> how so? those are your words :)
<LaserJock> SRUs aren't fun, but that doesn't mean people don't do them
<Lns> LaserJock: right, but "needs" is relative to who you're talking to.
<LaserJock> that's why you have management
<Lns> I "need" SRUs for hardy. but you "need" to fix devel bugs first.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I'm looking at all needs trying to get things done as best we can with the resources we can
<Lns> LaserJock: if we don't think our resources will expand, we'll never get anywhere
<Lns> we have to focus on getting more people involved
<LaserJock> I think they will
<LaserJock> right
<Lns> ok
<LaserJock> I totally agree we need to get more people involved
<LaserJock> I just think focusing on SRUs is the wrong way to get more
<LaserJock> because it's sucky work
<Lns> i know :)
<Lns> but look at it from my perspective
<Lns> I need that sucky work to get done
<LaserJock> sure
<Lns> like...way faster than -devel patches
<LaserJock> so does Edubuntu
<Lns> right
<Lns> so we need people involved that will do the SRUs
<Lns> and i know what you said
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> you're representing a particular need
<Lns> maybe it's an issue with what someone considers their "job title" or equiv for this
<LaserJock> one I'm painfully aware of
<Lns> we have to have some people focus on certain tasks, with oversight from the collective
<Lns> otherwise everyone is doing everything, and it's not productive
<LaserJock> the problem is, we don't even have people on the dev release
<Lns> too many cooks in the kitchen
<LaserJock> it's stgraber and myself
<LaserJock> stgraber doesn't have time for SRUs really
<Lns> i don't doubt that one bit
<LaserJock> and I don't have much
<Lns> I'm astonished at the things you all get done currently, it's amazing
<Lns> i could never handle something like that
<LaserJock> so if we could get more people that would either 1) find some SRU types or 2) free stgraber and myself to do SRUs
<LaserJock> either way, more people helps solve the problem
<stgraber> sbalneav was wanting to give a hand at that but he's likely even more busy than I'm :)
<Lns> LaserJock: IMHO we need specific focus and direction for us all
<LaserJock> well
<Lns> obviously everyone has a preference on what they'd like to work on
<Lns> so let the experts do the expert work in their field, whether it's development, security, SRUs, etc.
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> but we don't *have* any experts :-)
<Lns> again, $$$ helps prime :)
<LaserJock> not sure
<Lns> maybe we won't need $$$ later on if the community grows organically
<Lns> but i bet it would help grow the community initially anyway
<Lns> maybe canonical is just an interim company that helps evolve ubuntu
<LaserJock> it's just gonna take quite a bit to get something like that going
<Lns> i dunno, maybe i'll think about subcontracting/hiring some people interested in doing what i need done specifically
<Lns> when i have the resources myself...given i am a 2 man company
<Lns> LaserJock: you gotta start somewhere
<Lns> anyway, i need to go home :)
<Lns> thank you all for the input.. my gears are turning, and i hope to contribute more to the big picture soon
<Lns> that will benefit us all
<Lns> cheers!
<stgraber> LaserJock: btw, I remember you poking me last week asking me when I'd have time to talk ? Do you still have something to discuss ? :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: just seeing what's up with LTSP
<stgraber> I'm currently doing some testing trying to get rid of ipconfig and using a real dhcp client instead (udhcpc) but that'll need a MIR and may be a bit hard to get before FF ...
<stgraber> though the initramfs scripts will run fine even if udhcpc isn't installed, using it only if installed in the chroot. So it'd rock if I can get it in for Jaunty but won't be a big issue if I can't.
<stgraber> other than that, it's mainly improving ltsp-cluster, bug fixing and preparing a few new upstream to be uploaded before FF
<stgraber> I actually almost finished the first deployment of Intrepid-based ltsp-cluster using Jaunty's LTSP, so far no problem so Jaunty's LTSP is as far as I'm concerned production ready :)
<nothingman> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi nothingman
<nothingman> what's new?
<LaserJock> nothingman: not much
<nothingman> I've been trying to set up a vbox pxe client to test with on the fly
<nothingman> it hangs on tftp though
<billbalt> I'm trying to figure out how to change education programs to work in Spanish. Any hints?
<LaserJock> morgs: ping
<LaserJock> anybody around?
<LaserJock> I need some naming help
<jelkner> hi all
<LaserJock> hi jelkner
<jelkner> i noticed some postings on the mailing list awhile back, and was wondering if this is the place to come to talk about getting scratch working on ubuntu
<jelkner> LaserJock: hi man!
<jelkner> scratch is truly one of the coolest pieces of educational software i've ever seen
<jelkner> this is the second year i have experimented with it with my students
<LaserJock> cool
<jelkner> it is a constructivists dream tool
<jelkner> students don't want to stop using it
<jelkner> (even when class is supposed to be over!)
<LaserJock> well, basically we need to do 2 things. 1) get Squeak updated/maintained and 2) package scratch up
<jelkner> there is already some effort on the scratch side
<LaserJock> if edubuntu-devel was part of the discussion of that effort then it may help
<jelkner> i hope so
<jelkner> i just wanted to lend my voice to the chorus singing about how important this is
<LaserJock> sure, yeah
<LaserJock> we'd love to see scratch get in
<LaserJock> and we'd love it even more if we could get it in a free component (Universe/Main)
<jelkner> from what i understand there has been progress in that direction
<jelkner> http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Linux_installer
<jelkner> i'm running scratch now from the debian/ubuntu package on the scratch site
<LaserJock> the problem is we don't have a free Squeak
<jelkner> the problem is with multimedia things
<jelkner> sounds don't work
<jelkner> nor does image morphing
<jelkner> LaserJock: do you know any other folks on our end following up on this?
<jelkner> is there any way i could help?
<jelkner> i'm not in a position to contribute to the code
<jelkner> we have too many other python based projects going on
<LaserJock> jelkner: well, finding somebody in the squeak/scratch community who would like to at least help maintain it would be awesome
<LaserJock> I can help guide and sponsor work
<LaserJock> but I can't maintain the whole thing myself
<jelkner> did you see the link?
<jelkner> they seem to be doing that already
<jelkner> i just wanted to make sure all the right communication is taking place
<LaserJock> jelkner: but not *in* ubuntu
<LaserJock> exactly, and it's not
<jelkner> so what would the process be to help fix that?
<LaserJock> I need to have people email edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> I currently can't be on everybodies mailing list pushing them along :-)
<jelkner> so i should start with that?
<jelkner> of course
<jelkner> i'll email edubuntu-devel and let them know how important i think this is
<LaserJock> if you could encourage people who are interested in Squeak/Scratch in Ubuntu to start some conversations on edubuntu-devel I'd be glad to do what I can to help that along
<LaserJock> the issue is less knowing that it's important
<LaserJock> but rather getting people who know what they're doing plugged into the process
<jelkner> ahh
<jelkner> i don't know how to do that
<jelkner> i could send the email if you think it would help
<LaserJock> jelkner: if you can find the people in Scratch doing the Debian/Ubuntu installer and see if they'd talk to edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> I think that'd be a significant help
<jelkner> ok, i'll approach it from that direction then
<LaserJock> so far I've gotten quite a few people who want to see it in
<jelkner> thanks
<LaserJock> I just haven't heard from anybody actually wanting to take on the work
<jelkner> typical story unfortunately :-(
<LaserJock> yep
<jelkner> especially with things like this
<jelkner> we are just educators who know how great a tool it is
<LaserJock> but if we can plug in a Squeak/Scratch dev into the Ubuntu dev community then it'd be a big wiin
<jelkner> but we don't have the where with all to do the work on it
<jelkner> so i'll look into that
<jelkner> thanks again
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> no, thank *you*
<LaserJock> this is the sort of thing the educators can help with
<jelkner> got it
 * jelkner goes off to poke around the Scratch community...
<LaserJock> Lns: morning
<Lns> LaserJock: morning! =)
<Lns> LaserJock: so what are you exciting projects currently?
<LaserJock> trying to stay afloat at the moment :-)
<LaserJock> ok, so I talked with some people about abiword
<LaserJock> and email got sent to the Debian maintainer about splitting out the lib, etc.
<LaserJock> jelkner dropped by to ask about getting Scratch in Ubuntu, he's gonna talk with them to try to find some Squeak/Scratch maintainers
<LaserJock> I really really need to finalize the name for the Universe app bundles though
<Lns> what are the candidates?
<LaserJock> I liked edubuntu-extras-*
<LaserJock> but nubae didn't
<LaserJock> we can do just edubuntu-*
<LaserJock> edubuntu-*-universe
<Lns> these are for "extra" packaged apps such as abiword? what's in there?
<LaserJock> it's going to be relatively high-demand, useful edu apps that are in Universe
<LaserJock> abiword wouldn't be one since it's in Main
<Lns> right
<LaserJock> childsplay perhaps
<Lns> did you guys decide against simply edu-?
<Lns> don't wanna open a can of worms at the moment, just curious :)
<LaserJock> well, the Main ones are ubuntu-edu-*
<Lns> argh phone
<Lns> back
<Lns> cool..i was for ubuntu-edu-*
<Lns> :)
<Lns> LaserJock: so what's wrong with ubuntu-edu-extras-*?
<LaserJock> it's rather long
<Lns> but consistent! =)
<LaserJock> well, if I was going for consistency I'd got edubuntu-* ;-)
<Lns> hmm...
 * Lns has always been a fan of consistency 
<LaserJock> Lns: any suggestions?
<Lns> LaserJock: personally i don't see anything wrong with ubuntu-edu-extras-*
<LaserJock> k
<Lns> there's plenty of packages with longer names
<LaserJock> edubuntu-edu-extras-preschool doesn't seem toolong?
<Lns> and at least they'd be easy to group together and understand
<Lns> nope
<Lns> i think it's a very good description actually
<Lns> and you can apt-cache search it very easily along with the other package names
<Lns> oh wait
<Lns> you mean ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool ?
<Lns> not edubuntu-edu
<Lns> (that's a bit redundant ;) )
<LaserJock> yes, sorry
<LaserJock> muscle habit
<Lns> then yeah
<Lns> haha
<Lns> $ apt-cache search ubuntu-edu
<Lns> will bring up everything we would want :)
<Lns> hello alkisg
<alkisg> Hey Lns, what's the good word? :)
<alkisg> (I learned that from you :P)
<Lns> alkisg: =p
<Lns> the good word is ...."ltsp".
<Lns> And also "edu"
<alkisg> Heh... any java speedups?
<Lns> alkisg: nope, but I just triaged the LP bug w/freedesktop bug
<Lns> like...2 seconds ago
<alkisg> Erm.. this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/+bug/277069
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 277069 in libxcb "Java slow on remote X" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<Lns> yep
 * Lns hopes he was supposed to do that
<Lns> Sometimes I get messed up in what tasks to perform on a bug so people can collab better
<alkisg> Hmm... ok, on to the next bug: solving the firefox right-click delay :)
<Lns> alkisg: haven't heard of that yet
<Lns> url me ?
<alkisg> I don't know where I saw it (bug report or mailing list), but it's a known bug, and there was some talking recently about it
<alkisg> Let me check...
<Lns> well there SHOULD be a bug report on it if it's known.... ;)
<alkisg> Here are some links: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg35841.html
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-1.9/+bug/305531
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 305531 in xulrunner-1.9 "Context menu and drop down list are slow to appear" [Medium,Triaged]
<Lns> alkisg: interesting, i dont' have that issue at all
<Lns> I'm on FF3.0.6
<alkisg> Lns, ahm, I think it's an intrepid issue?
<alkisg> I don't remember having it in hardy...
<Lns> ahh, ok
<Lns> ii  xulrunner-1.9                              1.9.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1 + ii  xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support                1.9.0.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1
<alkisg> Lns, you're on hardy now? Try ssh -X and then firefox...
<Lns> alkisg: yes
<alkisg> OK, ssh -Y localhost
<Lns> from a tc?
<alkisg> Then run firefox, right click and see if it takes more than a second
<alkisg> No, from the server / your PC
<alkisg> It's not ltsp related
<alkisg> Or just run firefox from a TC
<Lns> i'm on a thin client.. i can't do that :( i'd have to vnc into the server
<Lns> oh
<Lns> well i do that all the time
<alkisg> Ah, so no delay then
<Lns> and i odn't have the issue..takes MAYBE 0.25sec to bring up a right-click context menu
<Lns> and they say LTS doesn't mean more stable. ha! =p (just kidding just kidding)
<alkisg> well, I'd prefer localapps to stability any time :P
<Lns> alkisg: how much ram do your tcs have to run localapps (and which apps) ?
<Lns> i'm wondering if localapps will even work for me, most of my TCs in the field are like, 128mb or so
<alkisg> One lab has 64 Mb, the other 128 Mb... (yup, I was just kidding about the localapps... :D)
<alkisg> Well, I have htop as a local app :D
<Lns> lol
<Lns> well that's a good localapp!
 * alkisg would like to be able to run a video player as a local app... :(
<Lns> that would be nice...and tsclient, as that would reduce roundtrips for display on a windows termserver too (from ubuntu desktop)
<alkisg> why tsclient and not rdesktop?
<Lns> alkisg: well either one
<Lns> rdesktop is what tsclient uses
<alkisg> I have the feeling that rdesktop would be lighter
<Lns> it is i think
<Lns> damn it, how do you get a thread view on SF lists...
<Lns> ah got it
<nothingman> hi, all
<Lns> hey nothingman
<LaserJock> any moodle users around?
<Lns> yeah where's nubae been?
<LaserJock> not sure
<Lns> !seen nubae
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<Lns> !last nubae
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about last nubae
<Lns> bah
<Lns> !help
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #edubuntu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<sa7a> hi how can i make a usb boot stick in handy?
<yotux> hello, what programs are offered to assit child in learning reading and spelling?
#edubuntu 2009-02-18
<Ahmuck> hi
<Ahmuck> anybody notice the scaling issue with ubuntu ltsp & edubuntu and 8.04?
<Ahmuck> i couldn't help but wonder if this is the same problem i'm having.  is ubuntu ltsp being tested anywhere?
<Lns> Ahmuck: i've got plenty of 8.04 installs
<Lns> you referring to the list post?
<LaserJock> it seems to me generally that LTSP5 doesn't scale quite as well as LTSP4
<LaserJock> but you gain a heck of a lot making the jump
<Lns> scale past what # of clients? It's hard to say "X doesn't scale" because the hardware makes all the difference
<Lns> (server/network hardware mostly)
<johnb> Hello
<johnb> I'm looking for some documentation I ran across the other day relating to adding flashplayer and       OO clipart
<Lns> johnb: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
<johnb> thats it! thanks
<Lns> np =)
<Lns> damn i love that wiki
<johnb> I'm really excited about the prospects of our upgraded LTSP
<Lns> johnb: well keep involved with the community, we're growing all the time and are very active. we could use more peoples' input
 * Lns waves goodnight to all
<Ahmuck> Lns yes
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: what do you mean by "is ubuntu ltsp being tested anywhere?" ?
<stgraber> I usually have between 50 and 100 users on each appserver
<stgraber> and several hundreds connections on the NBD
<LaserJock> stgraber: are those full desktops with flash, java, etc.?
<LaserJock> or just single use kind of things
<stgraber> full desktop
<LaserJock> stgraber: so do you think the issue is hardware related?
<stgraber> for whole school districts so basically all K12, that's from gcompris to OO/inkscape/kdeedu
<stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, usually good hardware really helps for X performances and you also need a good network
<stgraber> flash is unfortunately really bad with LTSP but works fine as a localapp
<stgraber> and you don't get that many users doing flash at the same time actually (5-6 on each server usually)
<LaserJock> stgraber: the guy in the thread today seemed to have good hardware specs
<Ahmuck> what proc?
<Ahmuck> stgraber: what proc?
<Ahmuck> i have decent hardware specs but i'm having issues as well
<Ahmuck> my issues seem to be icon related.  to many icons, ie, pdf preview icons, folder icons, etc. and the desktop looses it's task bar and menu bars
<LaserJock> huh, interesting
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: like with how many clients?
<stgraber> Ahmuck: either 2xDual Xeon or 1xQuad Xeon
<stgraber> Ahmuck: though we're now getting some new blades with 2xQuad Xeon
<LaserJock> so for the Universe app bundles Lns suggested ubuntu-edu-extras-*
<LaserJock> anybody have other suggestions?
<LaserJock> alkisg, Ahmuck , stgraber ^^
<alkisg> Good morning all. Sorry, I'm not experienced enough to express an opinion in package naming... :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: sounds good
<LaserJock> alkisg: well, that's a good thing
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you think you would know what ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool would be for?
<alkisg> LaserJock: At first I didn't even get what "ubuntu-restricted-extras" meant...
<LaserJock> ohhhh, good point actually
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you think people might think it's like -restricted-extras (non-free stuff)?
<alkisg> What will the bundles contain? Everything edu-related that is in universe?
<LaserJock> not everything
<LaserJock> it will be a subset of packages that we think are important and useful for educators
<LaserJock> but they will all be from Universe
<alkisg> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
<ubottu> compiz-fusion-plugins-extra (source: compiz-fusion-plugins-extra): Collection of extra plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz. In component main, is extra. Version 0.7.8-0ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 2456 kB, installed size 9236 kB
<alkisg> !info gnome-accessibility-themes-extras
<ubottu> gnome-accessibility-themes-extras (source: gnome-themes): accessibility themes for the GNOME 2 desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 2.24.1-0ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 698 kB, installed size 3444 kB
<alkisg> OK, ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool or ubuntu-preschool-extras sounds good :)
<alkisg> (or maybe ubuntu-edu-preschool-extras, with the "extras" going to the end, to match the other package names I see...)
<alkisg> (in case an "ubuntu-edu-preschool-main" is also needed)
<Meshezabeel> anyone know if there is a graphics channel on irc?
<Meshezabeel> you there Ahmuck?
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: you might try #ubuntu-x
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock, Sorry, I mean for images/drawings.
<LaserJock> ohh
<Meshezabeel> Do you think this image would scare away kids: http://imagebin.org/38675
<Meshezabeel>  Basically I suck at artwork, but am making some language teaching software for kids, I just want something temporarily as a cute logo or something. Normally I cannot even draw a stick person, but I just played around in GIMP, and this came out, I wouldn't be able to do it again if I tried though.
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: it looks like a frog to me
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: you might want to try inkscape
<LaserJock> I'm not an art person at all but I've been able to make decent icons with it
<Meshezabeel> okay, thanks :)
<Meshezabeel> I'll probably just use what I made for now, just wanted to make sure I wasn't givivg kids nightmares with a scary looking face.
<Aly> Gah, it won't let me download plugins.
<Meshezabeel> Thanks for coming Aly :)
<morgs> LaserJock: pong, thanks for your reply to the mail
<LaserJock> morgs: I don't think I had anything specific to ask you, just wanted to see how it was going
<LaserJock> morgs: btw, I don't know if you saw, but I'm the motu-release delegate for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> which includes Sugar
<morgs> excellent
<morgs> almost done with pre-feature freeze uploads, then I'll have a bunch of new-upstream-but-bugfix-only uploads coming
<LaserJock> k
<morgs> This abiword thing is a bit of a mess - I'll see if I can get a patch today. I'm only familiar with cdbs packaging at this stage, and abiword doesn't use that - resulting in a very complex debian/rules, and a different way to specify install locations
<morgs> and it takes so long to build that it's hard to test - build - fail - test - build - fail :)
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<Lns> hey LaserJock =)
 * Lns likes the warm greetings!
<Lns> How's everyone in edubuntuland today
<Meshezabeel> Doing well Lns, you?
<Lns> Meshezabeel: I'm doing well, as well
<Meshezabeel> Well, well, that's swell.
<Lns> lol
<Meshezabeel> :)
<more> Hello all.
<Meshezabeel> The more the merrier.
<Guest59923> I was in the other day with the dell that had the nad NIC as my server.
<morehpperliter> Sweet.
<morehpperliter> So anywho.
<Meshezabeel> still didn't get it working?
<morehpperliter> All the machines see the sever and all is well I was just curious if there was Docs around about setting up the clients.
<morehpperliter> Not sure how to limit them.
<morehpperliter> How to give them certain apps and limiting their browsing.
<morehpperliter> It's for a public library.
<morehpperliter> Well. Three total.
<Meshezabeel> clients are server are ubuntu?
<morehpperliter> Server is edubuntu.
<morehpperliter> Clients boot PXE.
<Meshezabeel> so server is acting as a terminal server?
<morehpperliter> I suppose.
<morehpperliter> Are the different desktops for "Clients" controlled by their logins?
<Meshezabeel> I am not 100% sure how to do this, but you can search for something like: Ubuntu kiosk
<Lns> morehpperliter: the first thing you want to do is remove any unneeded apps..if they're not available, people can't use them
<morehpperliter> remove them from server?
<Lns> and yeah, like Meshezabeel said, you might want to look into using kiosk type setups instead to really limit everything
<Lns> you can also lock down gnome (if that's what you're using) with gconf - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeOptimize
<Meshezabeel> as for browsing you might want something like dansgardian
<morehpperliter> So. can I have some clients running one thing nad others running something else?
<morehpperliter> Like some in Kiosk mode and some in desktop?
<Lns> i'd have to assume that's possible somehow
<morehpperliter> not common or easy?
<Meshezabeel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ#Can%20I%20have%20some%20of%20my%20thin%20clients%20work%20as%20anonymous%20web%20kiosks?
<Meshezabeel> I've never set up an ltsp server before, so is over my head :)
<morehpperliter> *lol*
<morehpperliter> Isn't this edubuntu?
<Meshezabeel> isn't what edubuntu?
<Meshezabeel> edubuntu (as with all linux distros) can be installed on single machines without being a terminal server
<morehpperliter> Oh?
<morehpperliter> I thought it was tls
<morehpperliter> I thought it was tlsp only.
<ogra> edubuntu is a set of educational and teaching applications on top of ubuntu
<ogra> ubuntu comes with ltsp out of the box, not related to edubuntu
<morehpperliter> gotcha
<Meshezabeel> and just because it has ltsp, does not mean you are required to use it :)
<Meshezabeel> Of course, it is a very useful feature that greatly eases administration and allows you to use substandard clients.
<Lns> morehpperliter: edubuntu used to have ltsp integration, and was promoted as 'the' ltsp distro for a while..but ltsp evolved into ubuntu itself and edubuntu re-focussed on educational apps outside of ltsp
<Lns> it's been a long, windy road so far =)
<ogra> nah :)
<ogra> it was a smooth ride :)
<ogra> edubuntu used to be the testbed for ltsp5 when i worked on it
<ogra> when it was advanced enough it simply made its way into ubuntu
<morgs> LaserJock: I think I fixed the libabiword issue - I posted a debdiff on bug 320440
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 320440 in abiword "Sugar needs abiword built with libabiword" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320440
<LaserJock> morgs: good work
<LaserJock> morgs: how much have you tested that?
<Aly> Can someone help?
<morehpperliter> whats the problem?
<morehpperliter> I'm a newb myself.
<Meshezabeel> Aly is gone
<Meshezabeel> Aly likes to come into the channel, say something, and leave a few seconds later.
<morehpperliter> *lol* interestin.
<morehpperliter> Then, configure the DHCP server (/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf) to tell those thin clients to use the kiosk root by typing:
<morehpperliter> Does that make ALL the clients operate in kiosk mode?
<Meshezabeel> I think there might be some info missing on that instruction page.
<morehpperliter> On alot of pages...
<morehpperliter> <edubuntu> Check our documentation.
<morehpperliter> <edubuntu> Or bother the IRC channel
<morehpperliter> I'm out
<morehpperliter> exit
#edubuntu 2009-02-19
<xur1z> hi all. i'm looking for some useful games to install for a 17-yr old autistic boy, he's non-verbal and doesn't read instructions much but loves to play
<xur1z> would welcome any recommendations beyond the stock games - anything gems i might miss if i just do a default edubuntu install
<Meshezabeel> Hi xur1z, I'm a bit ignorant about autism, but what about fillets-ng ?
<xur1z> haven't seen it
<xur1z> (sorry - was away putting my boy to bed!)
<xur1z> will have a look now
<linux_guy> hello edubuntu
<linux_guy> goodbye edubuntu
<alkisg> This seems to do a fine job at resetting the gnome panels, but how bad is it to do it on a logged-on user? `gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel`
<morehpperliter> Ok.
<morehpperliter> How did I screw it up this time?
<LaserJock> Nubae: ping
<morehpperliter> test
<LaserJock> morgs: ping
<Lns> Hi all
<LaserJock> hi Lns
<Stathis`> ÎºÎ±Î»Î·ÏÏÎµÏÎ±, ÏÎ¹ ÎºÎ¬Î½ÎµÏÎµ;;;;;;;;
<Stathis`> ÏÎ¿ edubuntu Î´Î¹Î±ÏÎµÏÎµÎ¹ Î±ÏÎ¿ ÏÎ¿ ÏÎµÏÎ¹Î²Î±Î»Î»Î¿Î½ ÎµÏÎ³Î±ÏÎ¹Î±Ï ÏÎ¿Ï ubuntu Î® Î±ÏÎ»ÏÏ ÎµÏÎµÎ¹ ÏÎµÏÎ¹ÏÏÎ¿ÏÎµÏÎ± ÎµÎºÏÎ±Î¹Î´ÎµÏÏÎ¹ÎºÎ± ÏÏÎ¿Î³ÏÎ¬Î¼Î¼Î±ÏÎ±;;;
<Stathis`> alkisg:  ÏÎ¹ Î»ÎµÏ;;;
<alkisg> Stathis`: this is an english-only channel
<Stathis`> wowwww
<Stathis`> sorry i do not speak english
<Stathis`> :)))
<Stathis`> nice to meet you... see you later ... byeeee kissessssssss :))))
<LaserJock> wow, interesting
<alkisg> Erm, sorry to say that, but thank god he doesn't speak english. We get too much of him on the greek ubuntu channel already :)
<LaserJock> lol
<Lns> ha
<Meshezabeel> hey all
<Meshezabeel> heya calimer
<calimer> howdy :D
<Meshezabeel> how goes everything?
<calimer> sleepy, just finished babysitting :D
<Meshezabeel> ah :) then it's time for a nap :)
<calimer> it was a lot of fun but getting up at 7 is too early for me haha
<Meshezabeel> indeed :)
<calimer> how have you been?
<Meshezabeel> Doing well. Have a break this week which is always nice.
<calimer> :D
<calimer> breaks are fun except for when you run out of stuff to do
<calimer> though I generally don't seem to find that problem
<Meshezabeel> yeah, though I seem to always have stuff to do ;)
<calimer> that nap ios starting to feel like a good idea
<calimer> is
<calimer> starting to see some double action
<Meshezabeel> haha, yeah, just don't nap too long :)
<calimer> yeah going in for a half or so
<calimer> have a good one while I go off into dreamland
<Meshezabeel> take care
<calimer> you too
<alkisg> !info libqt4-network
<ubottu> libqt4-network (source: qt4-x11): Qt 4 network module. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.3-0ubuntu1.1 (intrepid), package size 427 kB, installed size 1132 kB
#edubuntu 2009-02-20
<yotux> my thin client says my image is to large for small memory
<Meshezabeel> heya foka
<foka> Meshezabeel, Hello!  :-)
<berriop> ï»¿how can I change the screen resolution of the thin clients?
<berriop> ï»¿I have change the resolution of one of my clients using the lts.cfg and it doesnt work
<berriop>  the other client, which has the same hw and monitor has the resolution set properly, what is going on??
<johnb> hello
<johnb> We are really liking our new ubuntu 8.10!
<johnb> Would like to install acroread I found a couple of different write ups on how to add.
<johnb> one says to use medibuntu and another says xapian-index
<berriop> johnnb: hi, this is a chat for edubuntu specific issues, for more generic question try the #ubuntu chat
<johnb> thanks I'm there too.
<johnb> A very busy place!
<alkisg> berriop, which ubuntu version?
<king> Is there really no way to order a Edubuntu Classroom Server cd?
<LaserJock> king: what are you wanting to do?
<LaserJock> but yeah, Canonical is no longer shipping free Edubuntu CDs
<LaserJock> if you're wanting to do LTSP you can use the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<king> The school I attend is wanting to start up a Edubuntu server. The head technical guy knows another head tech at another school who uses it.
<king> I'm not sure if it's just because Edubuntu is a educational version that he wants Edubuntu.
<LaserJock> king: you can download and burn the CDs
<LaserJock> king: the Ubuntu Alternate CD has the LTSP parts and the Edubuntu education CD for the educational applications
<LaserJock> king: http://edubuntu.org/download gives more details
<king> I know. I've looked into it all. I was just hoping that you could get the cd.
<king> We've tried it a couple of times but for one reason or another it hasn't worked so we're going to have to try on a different computer.
<king> What is the Ubuntu Alternate CD? It said this but I wasn't sure what it meant.
<yotux> 'king: its the text based install cd
<Lns> king: Alt. CD has LTSP install built-in so you dont' have to install it after installing the OS
<LaserJock> king: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#alternate
<Lns> (and what yotux said)
<yotux> I am getting a image too large error is there any documentation on this?
<yotux> Error on the thin client
<Lns> yotux: specific error text?
<yotux> File transfer error: Image file too large for low memory.
<yotux> its after TFTP
<king> Thank You for your help
<king> With the Ubuntu Alternate CD all I have to do is install it, and I'll have the Edubuntu educational applications?
<Lns> king: no, the Alternate CD gives you LTSP.
<Lns> when chosen from the install menu (F4 iirc at boot)
<Lns> The Edubuntu apps are on an add-on CD
<Lns> or available for download via apt
<king> Ok. Is the apt via the terminal or can you get it through the synatptic manager?
<Lns> either or
<king> What's it called?
<Lns> edubuntu-desktop?
<Lns> there's a ton of stuff, just search for 'edubuntu'
<king> kk. thanks.
<Lns> np
#edubuntu 2009-02-21
<calimer-> LaserJock is too late for SB to make it into edubuntu?
<LaserJock> calimer-: well, it just so happens that I've been given Feature Freeze exception duties for Universe education packages
<calimer-> not entirely sure what that means
<LaserJock> calimer-: it means I'd be the person who'd need to OK it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<calimer-> ah okay cool, baby is putting on her server right now
<Baby> hi :)
<calimer-> to her ppa
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<calimer-> ah hey
<calimer-> didn't even see you in here :D
<LaserJock> well, file a Feature Freeze exception
<calimer-> we wanted to put in some bug fixes
<calimer-> so that is why it is a little later than we wanted
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess is the wiki page
<LaserJock> and instead of subscribing motu-release, subscribe me
<LaserJock> and I'll have a look
<Baby> cool :) great
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#FeatureFreeze%20for%20new%20packages is the specific section
<Baby> reading...
<Baby> the package is almost finished now, I just have to add some texts to the debian/copyright file, I hope to have it finished before the weekend ends
<LaserJock> Baby: excellent
<LaserJock> Baby: have you tried it on Ubuntu as well (I assume so since it's in a PPA)
<Baby> but I've already checked all the licensing stuff and it is DFSG-free
<Baby> not yet, I've checked that it compiled in jaunty, but I haven't been able to actually test the game
<LaserJock> ok
<Baby> it works in testing and sid without problems
<LaserJock> Baby: are you going to upload it to sid?
<Baby> yup
<Baby> but it won't be there in time for januty
<Baby> jaunty*
<LaserJock> no?
<Baby> it still has to go throuh NEW
<LaserJock> what's the current NEW wait?
<Baby> let me check
<LaserJock> I guess it's huge considering Lenny just got out
<Baby> 1 month
<Baby> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<LaserJock> hmm :(
<Baby> yup, I know :(
<calimer-> anything I can do to help?
<Baby> not really, it's mostly administrative stuff
<Baby> bottlenecks in the distros release processes
<LaserJock> it would just be nicer if we were syncing to Debian
<calimer-> I feel bad that I can't help more with this stuff, thanks for all of your work baby, and LaserJock
<LaserJock> instead of going from scratch
<Baby> yup, but what would be the limit for that?
<Baby> I mean, 1 month means about 20th march
<LaserJock> yeah, we should upload before then
<LaserJock> calimer-: I'd definately would like to get sandbox in Jaunty and would like to get it in the Release Notes
<calimer-> awesome LaserJock :D
<calimer-> sorry for the delay, was cleaning my dirty mug
<highvoltage> BattleStarJesus: hi?
<BattleStarJesus> highvoltage, I am responding.
#edubuntu 2009-02-22
<LaserJock> hi Nubae
<Nubae> hi there
<LaserJock> Nubae: do you use moodle 0.9?
<Nubae> 1.9 u mean
<LaserJock> Nubae: yeah
<Nubae> yeah, though been using 2.0 for some clients...
<LaserJock> Nubae: but it's better than 1.8
<LaserJock> ?
<Nubae> I believe the version that debian is bundling is still old as can be
<Nubae> well, its about a good 2 and half years behind the times
<LaserJock> right
<Nubae> doubt anyone will be installing it knowingly
<LaserJock> well, I was trying to figure out if I should merge 1.8 or wait for 1.9.4
<LaserJock> and I decided to go for 1.9.4
<Nubae> hmm, not that much is gonna change in the incrementals, but perhaps it will be better to wait
<Nubae> yah
<LaserJock> so I've spent the last couple days trying to figure it out
<LaserJock> I've been through ~ 20 CVEs
<Nubae> yah moodle is a bit of a monster
<LaserJock> it's especially fun since I don't know moodle or PHP
<LaserJock> but I pretty much got it all done
<berriop> ï»¿heyyy, anyone have ever tried the mustation thing or the ncomputing one????
<LaserJock> morning all
<LaserJock> Nubae: you get a chance to work on a Universe app list?
<LaserJock> phew
 * LaserJock made it back from funeral
<LaserJock> good thing for SUVs
#edubuntu 2010-02-22
<joerg> everybody sleeping here?
<joerg> maybe I should give you something to discuss ;)
<joerg> some of you know that I am trying to implement that portal server for schools
<joerg> anyway this is more a general question
<joerg> about files and directories.
<joerg> it happens that a student or teacher wants to share files with others.
<joerg> this is possible in a very static way: an admin creates a group for "Course 12 - Biochemistry" for example, creates /group/biochem and sets rw permissions for the group to it.
<joerg> how could we do that in a more dynamic way on a unix like platform?
<joerg> I mean: a teacher or student should be able to found an interest group of a bunch of other users and himself and share files with them.
<joerg> without needing to ask an admin to add a system group and a folder and set the required permissions
<joerg> have u got any ideas/thoughts? I have posix acls in mind, but never really played around with that.
<sbalneav> If you're talking about storing on an actual unix filesystem, there's no real way to get around adding groups, and needing priviledge to chmod directories.
<sbalneav> If you want to dynamically add files into a database, store them as blobs, then provide access to them through a web page, that can be more dynamic.
<sbalneav> You could also possibly provide access to the files in a unix-like filesystem manner through FUSE, from the database.
<joerg> he he
<joerg> same thought ;)
<joerg> sbalneav, my idea was to store the data somewhere in the fs, but store the permissions in a database
<joerg> so on unix, all the files and dirs would be owned by www-data
<joerg> which is not that nice
<joerg> but probably the only way
<sbalneav> No, I'd just store them in the database.
<joerg> and then write some fuse stuff to mount it locally and export it with sftp or whatever
<joerg> why?
<sbalneav> Why not?
<joerg> 80 gigs in a database?
<sbalneav> I've got 450 gigs at work
<sbalneav> PostgreSQL can handle terabytes.
<joerg> cool :)
<joerg> and how do u backup that stuff?
<sbalneav> We back it up with just the standard Postgres backup tools.
<sbalneav> snapshot off to a tarfile, then rsync to do offsite backups.
<sbalneav> we're getting to the point where we'd want to implement mirroring.
<joerg> doesn't that result in one big 450 gig tar file? :)
<joerg> most schools have these slow dsl connections so we'd need to make sure that we minimize the amount that is uploaded to the offsite backup
<joerg> but I guess postgres can do some incremental stuff as well
<joerg> to get a tar with only the stuff that changed since yesterday or so
<sbalneav> Morning all
<joerg> evneing
<vmlintu> afternoon
<joerg> nautilus is doing strange things ;)
<vmlintu> joerg: the file sharing problem is something I've come across too
<joerg> when mounting a webdav folder
<joerg> vmlintu, I have just implemented a basic filesystem in the database of my web app thing
<joerg> to do the file sharing stuff
<joerg> the only remaining pain is webdav
<joerg> davfs2 mounts it and it works
<joerg> but nautilus doesn't want it.
<joerg> very very strange
<joerg> actually the webdav-url is http://localhost:8000/fs/dav/joerg
<vmlintu> nautilus and webdav have always given me trouble when using apache+mod_dav
<joerg> nautilus does an OPTIONS request on that path
<joerg> then a PROPFIND
<joerg> and after that, it does the same thing on /fs1/dav
<joerg> which fails because that url is not webdav enabeld.
<joerg> mabe nautilus doesn't like it if it is not the root dir of the web server
<joerg> maybe I should ask the gnome guys?!
<alkisg> !info icedtea6-plugin jaunty
<ubottu> icedtea6-plugin (source: openjdk-6): web browser plugin based on OpenJDK and IcedTea to execute Java applets. In component main, is extra. Version 6b14-1.4.1-0ubuntu12 (jaunty), package size 75 kB, installed size 292 kB
<sbalneav> Ha! LTSP 5.2 made slashdot.
<alkisg> !info icedtea6-plugin hardy
<ubottu> Package icedtea6-plugin does not exist in hardy
<highvoltage> sbalneav: seen this before? http://thechive.com/2010/02/22/epic-church-in-spain-19-photos/
<sbalneav> highvoltage: That's Gaudi's church right?
<sbalneav> Sagrada Famillia?
<sbalneav> (I think)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I don't know. aparently they started building it like, 200 years ago and it will only be finished in another 20 years
<highvoltage> 16 years, at least
<Lns> looks like castle greyskull!
#edubuntu 2010-02-23
 * mhall119|work is back from SCaLE
<mhall119|work> talked to a lot of people about Edubuntu
<stgraber> mhall119|work: did you meet my colleagues ?
<stgraber> mhall119|work: at the Try it lab, giving talks or near the Asus guys.
<mhall119|work> no, I never made it to the Try it lab
<mhall119|work> if I had know they were your colleagues, I'd have stopped by
<mhall119|work> as it was, I barely left my booth both days
<mhall119|work> got to meet and talk with dinda for a while on Friday though
<stgraber> hehe, ok. We had a ltsp-cluster setup there running on touchscreen EEEtop there + educational softwares.
<mhall119|work> oh nice
<stgraber> oh, qimo-games just got in archive, congrats
<mhall119|work> save the congrats, qimo-session and qimo-wallpaer were rejected
<mhall119|work> jstrand rejected them, saying the license information wasn't in the original tarballs, but i remove those
<mhall119|work> also said they weren't native packages
<sbalneav> stgraber: ping
<HedgeMage> Hey, all, I finally found an hour to muck about with some work on the edubuntu.org upgrades -- any changes made to the live demo in the next hour or so will be LOST.  I'm chewing on the DB in my dev environment.
<Guest25299> HedgeMage, can I go for a coffee in the meanwhile or will my coffee maker be affected as well? :o)
<HedgeMage> Guest25299: Coffeemakers will NOT be effected, but any tea in the vicinity will be consumed during development and testing. ;)
<Guest25299> oh
<Guest25299> thank you for remembering me to change my nick :)
<joerg> sometimes in the middle of the night, my connection terminates
<joerg> and it reconnects
<joerg> and as nickserv enforces my nick
<joerg> because some stupid other joerg doesn't understand that this is my nick and took it again and again ;)
<HedgeMage> heh
<sbalneav> joerg: Why not register the nick?
<sbalneav> that way, it's yours :)
<joerg> it is registered
<joerg> and enforced
<joerg> because I was tired of ghosting that guy 5 times per day:)
<sbalneav> :)
<ozysimpson> Just a quick question, I have ssh'd to boxB from boxA and copying files from boxB to boxC using scp command my question is does boxA get affected or does the resources get utilized by this action ? sorry for the stupid question
<ozysimpson> sorry one more question along the same line what is the difference between dmesg and /var/log/messages what kind of logs should go where ?
<joerg> ozysimpson, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers :P
<joerg> ozysimpson, resources of boxA are not used for the copy process
<ozysimpson> joerg, thanks mate :-)
<joerg> ozysimpson, it makes no difference if you sit in front of the machine or if you are logged in via ssh
<ozysimpson> well if you are doing resource intensive stuff on Boxb from boxA (ssh) does it affect the performance of boxA at all ?
<joerg> and well, dmesg prints out kernel messages
<joerg> and messages is syslog
<joerg> ozysimpson, not at all
<joerg> if you ssh to boxB it uses the keyboard and the screen of boxA
<joerg> nothing more and nothing less
<ozysimpson> thanks joerg, that concept really helps :-)
<nixternal> http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6988/1/  <- pretty good story
<stgraber> sbalneav: pong
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> morning sbalneav
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hey
<sbalneav> heya
<highvoltage> sbalneav: lots of things I had to give attention to this morning... I'll join in on bug day just a bit later :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: most of what needs my attention is feature freeze exceptions though, we need them for the qimo packages and also to get squeeze in multiverse
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I will fix those 2 packages that jstrand rejected and get them back up in revu this evening
 * mhall119|work is teaching a classin #ubuntu-classroom in a few minutes, otherwise I would be fixing them now
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: no problem, this evening will be good. thanks
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: archive admins are strict when it comes to licensing but that's what they're paid for :)
<mhall119|work> basically he just seems to want the licenses extracted into their own files
<mhall119|work> which is no big deal
<mhall119|work> and removing the homepage item in the control file
<sbalneav> highvoltage: I've been struggling here at work as well.  I've looked at a few things, but I probably won't be able to give it full attention until I get home.  I wasn't able to take the day off owing to our accounting system go-live.
<alkisg> !info pastebinit
<ubottu> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.2-1 (karmic), package size 22 kB, installed size 344 kB
<stgraber> alkisg: there's 1.0 in lucid
<alkisg> stgraber: I was just looking if it's readily available from a live cd... ok, it's an `apt-get install` away ;)
<alkisg> That, and x11vnc -connect should really be preinstalled :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: yeah this bug day seems pretty much a gonner, we should redo, my eyes just want to close now :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: I'll plink away tonight on some stuff, so it won't be a dead loss.
<sbalneav> But I think at least one or two more would be called for in any case.
#edubuntu 2010-02-24
<mgariepy> morning all
<highvoltage> morning mgariepy!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> morning sbalneav
<Ahmuck-Sr> what is edubuntu using for photomanagment?
<alkisg> The same as Ubuntu, f-spot I believe.
 * Ahmuck-Sr is moving to showfoto i believe
<Ahmuck-Sr> k, nm
<Ahmuck-Sr> looks nice but functions bad
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: I use both f-spot and gthumb
<sbalneav> f-spot's quite nice, but It's a bit of a pain to keep two different f-spot installations in sync, owing to the "photos vs. metadata database" dichotomy
<sbalneav> gthumb's nice in that it ONLY looks at the photos, unfortunately, if you want to tag a photo with a comment, it stores the comment as a .xml file in the directory with the photo, rather than embedding the comment in the photo the way f-spot does.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i need picasa's photo editing (simple and works) without all thier privacy issues
<Ahmuck-Sr> oops
<Ahmuck-Sr> closed konversation without knowing it
<Ahmuck-Sr> anywho, i've been using gwenview for viewing only
<Ahmuck-Sr> i find kde apps however void of gui icons for doing things
<alkisg> Meeting in 3 minutes?
<stgraber> meeting time !
<sbalneav> foo
<sbalneav> there
<sbalneav> It's looking more and more like I won't get to the handbook in time for release.  But I'm thinking of taking the handbook wikifi-ing it, and I'll get some stuff together at about release time.
<sbalneav> Does that seem okidokie with peoples
<sbalneav> ?
<mhall119|work> handbook for what?
<Lns> sbalneav: a wiki would be the best bet imho...so easy for people to contribute compared to other methods
<highvoltage> sbalneav: +1, wiki seems nice for that
<mhall119|work> did we ever determine if we could go from moin->docbook in an automated way?
<alkisg> I think some converters exist, but they haven't been updated recently, so they'd need some maintaining
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Nothing "automated", I figure lets get the wiki thing started, and we'll burn the other bridge when we come to it.
<sbalneav> I've been doing that alot lately, apparently ;)
<hoze> i have edubuntu 7.04, i tried to  sudo do-release-upgrade but i got some errors: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/ELhB6nXq any help pls?
<Lns> hoze: any reason you're using such an old version?
<Lns> oh, nm hahaha
<Lns> trying to fix that apparently ;)
<hoze> yeah :) i got a laptop with that version installed
<Lns> hoze: i dunno if this owuld help but are you totally up to date on 7.04? As in, apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade?
<hoze> checking
<mhall119|work> 7.04 would try to upgrade to 7.10, which is out of support I think, that may be a problem
<hoze> it seems to be
<mhall119|work> does your laptop have a DVD drive?
<hoze> when i open the upgrade manager i have a button that 7.10 is available but it fails when i try to upgrade
<hoze> no i dont, this is 9 inch monitor laptop :)
<mhall119|work> ah, a netbook
<mhall119|work> do you have a USB drive > 4.5 GB?
<mhall119|work> or however big a DVD is
<alkisg> The edubuntu dvd should fit in < 4 Gb...
<hoze> i have 4gig atm
<hoze> usb drive
<mhall119|work> perfect!
<hoze> can i make it bootable from this version?
<mhall119|work> I don't think 7.04 included usb-creator
<hoze> usb creator is available after 8.10 i think
<mhall119|work> try http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
<mhall119|work> I don't know if it works with DVD images
<hoze> i can make bootabe from my desktop
<hoze> bootable*
<mhall119|work> so if not, just make a bootable Ubuntu 9.10 image, install then, then apt-get install the edubuntu packages
<hoze> ttyl, ty
<mhall119|work> np
<hoze> 1 more question
<hoze> can i upgrade from the usb or i need a clean install
<alkisg> You can, but you'd need to go from 7.04 to 7.10 to 8.04 to 8.10 to 9.04 to 9.10 ;)
<hoze> :)
<alkisg> Or, go from 8.04 to 10.04 (you can go from LTS to LTS)
<hoze> there is a new lts???
<alkisg> Not yet, it's in alpha 3 (tomorrow)
<hoze> i'm on 8.04 at office, ill upgrade when itgets official
<mhall119|work> easiest to just do a clean install
<alkisg> But with the updates, you could stop in 8.04 until 10.04 is ready
<mhall119|work> backup any files you want to keep
<hoze> ok, going on my desktop to create the usb
<hoze> its new laptop, nothing i need here
<hoze> thanx for the help
<mhall119|work> then don't bother with upgrading, do a clean install
#edubuntu 2010-02-25
<LaserJock> evening Edubunters
<stgraber> hey LaserJock
<stgraber> has been a long time !
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> how are things in Edubuntu land?
<LaserJock> you guys excited for Lucid? :-)
<stgraber> LaserJock: very good, alpha3 should work quite well. After that we just need some more artwork and LTSP in the LiveCD and that should be it.
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I've been playing a little bit with Netbook Edition, as it's what I'm running full time these days
<LaserJock> I was thinking this evening that the netbook-launcher with a custom educational menu would be pretty cool for younger students
<LaserJock> big icons, easy navigation
<stgraber> yep, we have the packages on the DVD though we'll need some kind of script to let the user easily install it after a standard install.
<stgraber> I was initially thinking of some custom menu after ubiquity asking if you want to get LTSP and/or the netbook interface installed
<stgraber> not sure we'll be able to make that for Lucid though
<LaserJock> well, most people will be looking for solid LTSP and a stable LTS release
<LaserJock> I saw your announcement of the LTSP release
<stgraber> must have been hard to miss ;) It got published on quite a few news sites.
<LaserJock> how are the seeds going?
<LaserJock> I saw something about the packages that were being tracked for bugs changed
<stgraber> good for now, I had quite a few issues with KDE and the langpacks
<LaserJock> and I saw a few apps I hadn't seen before on the list
<LaserJock> ah, yeah
<stgraber> yeah, we added a few from universe now that they fixed the DVD building script :)
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> so how big is the DVD then?
<stgraber> 1.8G
<LaserJock> awesome!
<mhall119|work> hey, it's LaserJock
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I resubmitted the qimo-session, and let jstrand know, here's hoping it's what he wanted
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: hi
<mhall119|work> what's up doc?
<mhall119|work> yes, bad pun, I know.  But it's late and I'm drinking
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: heh
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: well, I'm workin' on research, saving the world and all ;-)
<LaserJock> surviving New England
<mhall119|work> cool, whatcha saving us from?
<LaserJock> "the enemy"
<LaserJock> or as we call it, "the adversary"
<mhall119|work> satan?
<mhall119|work> wow
<LaserJock> something like that ;-)
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: I'm actually going to be able to work on something explosive though
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: spontaneous ignition upon contact with air .... just another day in the lab
<mhall119|work> like potasium?
<LaserJock> not exactly
<LaserJock> a little more "boom" then that
<LaserJock> *than
<mhall119|work> fun
<mhall119|work> please tell me you're gonna package it in a can labeled "Whoop-Ass"
<lfaraone> Hi, I want to install nvidia drivers in my LTSP PXE-served chroot, without having DKMS running the module compilation on each run. How can I accomplish that? (I'm on Ubuntu karmic)
<lfaraone> in the past, when I've installed restricted drivers DKMS halts the client boot process while it installs the module each time a client starrts.
<jussi01> Just a reminder to ops in this channel, if you renewed your operatorship, you are now expected to idle in #ubuntu-ops :) See you there.
<alkisg> stgraber: I'd like to hide the restart/shutdown/ltsp-cluster-info desktop icons for fat clients, would you mind?
<alkisg> Restart+shutdown work from the indicator-session applet, and I think cluster-info is irrelevant for fat clients?
<alkisg> One hackish, but convenient way to hide icons for fat clients but show them for localapps enabled items, is to put something in the "TryExec" entry, that's only there for fat clients.
<alkisg> That could be either /etc/ltsp_fat_chroot (if we made it a shell script), or a dynamically generated shell file in /bin
<alkisg> (which is only generated if LTSP_FATCLIENT=True)
<mgariepy> morning all
<alkisg> Good morning
<alkisg> Ah, better yet, TryExec should be "ltsp-localapps" on those files
<alkisg> Hmm sorry no
<alkisg> Hmm sorry yes :)
<mhall119|work> make up your mind :p
<alkisg> TryExec is "xprop" for localapps. So by putting ltsp-localapps in those .desktop files, they should be hidden for fat clients, but showing for localapps clients
 * alkisg is worse than a woman shopping :P
<stgraber> alkisg: ltsp-cluster-info is relevant even for fat clients. I agree with the two others though
<alkisg> stgraber: can I least change it's menu so that it goes into "system"?
<alkisg> Now it's creating an "Others" menu, with only those in it...
<alkisg> I.e. Category=System or something like that, I'll look for the exact wording
<stgraber> alkisg: sounds good
<alkisg> OK, thanks
<mysterioux> would like to know if edubuntu and ubuntu shares the same look,feel and functionality?
<mhall119|work> they both use Gnome, so they'll be more or less the same
<mhall119|work> different artwork and themes though
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: he's gone gone gone :)
<mhall119|work> oh
 * mhall119|work doesn't have the nick list up at all times
 * mhall119|work also doesn't check timestamps like he should
 * sbalneav uses irssi
<mhall119|work> me too
<mhall119|work> I have timestamps, but not the nick list
<sbalneav> Have you got the login/out messages supressed?
<mhall119|work> in most channels, yes
<sbalneav> ahhh
<sbalneav> ok
<mhall119|work> also part of my problem
<sbalneav> Not a problem, you tried to help
<sbalneav> their problem for not hanging around for a bit.
<mhall119|work> s/a bit/almost 2 hours/
<sbalneav> heck, my rule of thumb is, if the channel's got less than 50 people, you need AT LEAST 24 hours in the channel.
<sbalneav> I've asked a question in a channel once, got an answer 3 days later :)
<sbalneav> Problem is, everybody's used to things like #ubuntu, where if you ask a question, if you don't get an answer in 10 seconds you're screaming "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!1111oneone"
<sbalneav> It's our instant gratification culture.
<sbalneav> I blame the invention of the fax machine, personally.
<sbalneav> I'm always getting calls like:
<sbalneav> "I sent my email 30 seconds ago, and the other end hasn't got it yet!!! Why is our email system broken!!!"
<sbalneav> :)
 * sbalneav waves his cane over his head
<sbalneav> Get off my lawn, you kids!!!
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Sooooo.... what does everyone think of the "No Icons in menus and no UI to change it" fiasco? :)
<ogra> sbalneav, thats was last release
<ogra> youre a bit late
<sbalneav> No, in karmic the ui option's still there to turn it on.
<ogra> ah
<sbalneav> for Lucid, the UI's disappeared.
<ogra> well, the change of the default was upstream ... and during karmic
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> it's a GNOME thing.
<sbalneav> but for us, I'm thinking it's an issue.
<sbalneav> little fingers on the mouse may want the icons turned on.
<ogra> just change the default ?
<ogra> or did anyone drop the edubuntu gconf files i created ?
<sbalneav> Did you create some gconf stuff?!? What's the package name?
<sbalneav> I was just going to suggest a "edubuntu-ui-tweak" package where we just set some gconf keys the way we like
<sbalneav> If you've already done this, then lets just revive/review it
<ogra> it used to live (wrongly) in the edubuntu-artwork package
<alkisg> sbalneav: those gconf files could just be part of the edubuntu-artwork package...
<alkisg> Heh
<alkisg> wrongly? why so?
<ogra> should have been moved into an edubuntu-default-settings package imho
<alkisg> omg many packages...
<ogra> alkisg, its not artwork :=
<ogra> :)
<alkisg> Sure, icons are artwork
<alkisg> Heh
<sbalneav> yeah, I'd agree.  I wouldn't think to look for gconf settings in an artwork package.
<ogra> well, -defult-settings is a common sheme in ubuntu
<sbalneav> ogra++
<sbalneav> it would be more "orthoganal" for us.
<ogra> its used by many flavours ... i.e. netbook, studio etc
<sbalneav> Now that we're past FF, would it be too late to do that?
<ogra> i dont think so
<ogra> but talk to slangasek
<sbalneav> alkisg: that seem reasonable to you?
<ogra> i really thought Laser did that spilt long ago
<alkisg> sbalneav: sure, if they're willing to accept a new edubuntu-default-settings package past FF, it certainly is fine for me
<sbalneav> Nope, the gconf settings are still in the package.
<sbalneav> ok, I'll have a look-see and see what we'd need to do to separate 'em.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think the no icons in the menus thing is totally stupid
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I saw someone use a system in a language he doesn't understand briefly to give some support
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and he wanted to make some changes but couldn't identify the menu entries as easily before because the icons weren't there anymore
<highvoltage> sbalneav: but your gnome upstream now so you can change it for us right? :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: HAH
<sbalneav> I just got my foundation membership, don't get me kicked out.
<highvoltage> oops s/your/you're/
<sbalneav> Best bet's just going to be to add the gconf key to the artwork pack
<sbalneav> I thought the one fellow on planet had a good point.  No icons makes it much harder for dyslexics
<highvoltage> Martin Owens
<highvoltage> yes I agree with him
<highvoltage> besides the usability issues- it just looks broken
<alkisg> Well they could at least make it *easy* to change...
#edubuntu 2010-02-26
<nirel> guys i have a problem with my monitor
<mgariepy> morning all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> ogra: btw, quick note on something we discussed a while ago. iBus works correctly even for localapps.
<stgraber> ogra: it's clearly doing some magic somewhere but it's working very nicely here.
<ogra> cool
<stgraber> ogra: I'll have someone come to our office this afternoon to confirm that Chinese is working properly (as I don't really understand it) :)
<stgraber> that's for one of my customer in China that'll be running laptop, desktops, thin clients and remote NX access on Karmic with Chinese input and interface
<ogra> sweet !
<stgraber> yep
<alkisg> stgraber, now that both you and ogra are here, can I just change that passthrough debconf method back to noninteractive, like debian has it? I think ogra says that it was never actually implemented, so we can just save ourselves from all the error messages. I tried with the debian plugin and it worked fine, and we still have time to check if that affects the alternate cd somehow.
<ogra> nono, i didnt say that
<ogra> i said it was used in ltsp-client-builder on the CD
<ogra> just that ltsp-client-builder was never properly finished :)
<ogra> ltsp-client-builder makes some use of passthrough, it will show a lot less progress if you use noninteractive there
<alkisg> Ah, sorry, misunderstood. But I did get the meaning right, right? I.e. that we can change it back to noninteractive...
<alkisg> But now it just shows 50 % and then 100%...
<alkisg> There's a bug filed for that
<ogra> well, i would do it that way:
<ogra> define a variable that can replace the debconf frontend in the code dynamically and default to noninteractive
<ogra> if someone ever goes to fix the d-i module he will want to have passthrough available
<ogra> so there you can then export that variable
<alkisg> well, if DEBCONF_FRONTEND is set, we keep it, else we default to noninteractive - does that sound ok?
<ogra> no, because d-i might set soemthing completely different
<ogra> dont use DEBCONF_FRONTEND
<ogra> definae something else
<ogra> DEBCONF_FRONTEND=${SOMETHINGELSE:-noninteractive}
<ogra> that should be in the ltsp-build-client plugin
<alkisg> Won't ltsp-client-builder be "in charge" of setting that SOMETHINGELSE variable? Why would it be better than saving/restoring DEBCONF_FRONTEND?
<ogra> ltsp-client-builder can then set SOMETHINGELSE to whatever it wants
<alkisg> I.e. DEBCONF_FRONTEND=passthrough ltsp-build-client
<alkisg> ...that'll save/restore the DEBCONF_FRONTEND value after the ltsp-build-client call...
<ogra> well, try it
<alkisg> But how would I try it on the alternate cd?
<alkisg> I mean, shouldn't we change it, and test on a daily image if it works?
<ogra> by changing it inside the CD :)
<ogra> its very tricky
<alkisg> Hmmm casper allows read/write, but what about the alternate?
<alkisg> Ah, you mean to unzip/rezip the .iso?
<ogra> it doesnt
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> fiddle with the iso
<ogra> as i said, very tricky and very time consuming
<alkisg> Hmmm I'd still go for the daily image, to save me some hours :)
<ogra> thats why i gave up on it ... i missed the time
<alkisg> (which I currently don't have :D)
<alkisg> We're still in alpha3, can't we just try it?
<sbalneav> Just to let people know, I'm expiring from the irc ops
<alkisg> irc ops for edubuntu? why?
<sbalneav> I have absolutely no desire to be an op for #edubuntu
<alkisg> But why? :)
<alkisg> What if someone comes here and starts misbehaving? Who're we going to turn to?
<sbalneav> I'll let others handle that,  I've got enough on my plate as it is :)
<alkisg> Oh com'on, it's not like it needs your attention every day... :)
<alkisg> It's nice to have a trusted person as an op, even if we never actually need him
<ogra> sbalneav, well, it comes in handy if you have a troll
 * ogra is usually not around after 9pm UTC
<LaserJock> hi all
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber, sbalneav: around?
<sbalneav> Yes for a moment or two
<LaserJock> sbalneav: for Hardy I had a feature added to Add/Remove to "float" ubuntu-edu-* app bundles to the top of the Education category
<LaserJock> no Software Center is replacing Add/Remove and they don't want to do the floating thing
<LaserJock> instead they have a mechanism for adding our own top-level "Compartment"
<LaserJock> they would like to know if that's OK or if we *really* need the "float to the top" thing
<LaserJock> it's my bug but since I'm no longer in charge here I wanted to ask you guys what you wanted to do
<sbalneav> Hmm, not sure
<sbalneav> Would the "compartment" be at the top
<LaserJock> basically
<LaserJock> top-level anyway
<LaserJock> at the time that I added the floating thing the app-bundles were really a primary way of installing the Edubuntu software
<LaserJock> as the Add-on CD wasn't getting used a ton it didn't seem
<LaserJock> now that the DVD is here I don't imagine that it will be used all that much
<LaserJock> my personal feeling is that it should be fine to drop the "float" thing as mvo/slangasek weren't pleased that we did it in the first place
<LaserJock> as we were the only group using it
<LaserJock> I think it also slowed down the app as the sorting got more complicated
<joerg_> j #linux.de
<joerg_> sorry
<sbalneav> LaserJock: BTW, did you see the responses to my comment?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I tend to think anything to do with empathy or telepathy is a dead end
<sbalneav> I mean, it would be one thing to say "Yeah, try this, this, this.... Oh, still nothing?  OK, might be upstream"
<sbalneav> But it was *right out of the box*
<sbalneav> And how the *&^#*% is a new end-user supposed to know where upstream is?
<LaserJock> they're just drowning in bugs and so are trying to close as many as possible and shove everything upstream
<LaserJock> but it does make one wonder what the point of having Launchpad is in that case
<sbalneav> Well, that was my point.
<LaserJock> I went to #telepathy to get help
<LaserJock> not significantly better
<LaserJock> but they did show me where there's a debug window in Empathy so I can watch to see if it's telepathy's fault or empathy's
<LaserJock> ... but that just sort of gets me to which bug tracker I'm supposed to head to, I have no confidence that the bug will actually be fixed
<sbalneav> Where's the debug window?
<LaserJock> in Help
<LaserJock> the problem is this is such a random/niche bug
<LaserJock> but one I don't get in any other IM client
#edubuntu 2010-02-28
<XuzhouJim> Well, gott a heck of a problem and picked the worst time to get it.
<XuzhouJim> Looks like my SAMBA install broke ltsp.
<XuzhouJim> Or SWAT
<XuzhouJim> So nobody here, fraid of that
<XuzhouJim> Anybody have experience with xinetd breaking ltsp?
<joerg> hey hey
<AndyGraybeal> i'm on ubuntu 8.10, i'm having an issue where i plug in a stick drive to the client but don't see it.
<AndyGraybeal> i don't know how to do dmesg my client or anything yet either.
<AndyGraybeal> i also need to get a network scanner to work; the scanner is a dell 2335dn multifunction; it sits on the network.  is it possible to get this to work?
#edubuntu 2011-02-21
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> ditto
<stgraber> good morning
#edubuntu 2011-02-22
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<doctormo> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> doctormo: pong (in the middle of a few things, will pong you back decently in a few minutes :) )
<Nubae> #join #ltsp
<Nubae> grin
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess you might have seen this already: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/natty/edubuntu-dvd/20110222/livecd-20110222-i386.out
#edubuntu 2011-02-23
<highvoltage> good morning everyone
<mgariepy> good morning everyone.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting in minus 26 minutes!
<highvoltage> oop, I got the time wrong, it's /in/ 23 minutes from now
 * highvoltage pastes what happened...
<highvoltage> 13:26 < highvoltage> Anybody around for an Edubuntu meeting?
<highvoltage> 13:27  * highvoltage goes ahead and spews out random updates for anyone who's willing to read then
<highvoltage> 13:27 < highvoltage> StÃ©phane finished the application selector so that users can choose what to remove from their final installation:  http://www.stgraber.org/2011/02/22/edubuntus-installer-ready-for-11-04/
<highvoltage> 13:28 < highvoltage> that's pretty much the last of what we need for Natty feature-wise
<highvoltage> 13:28 -!- jamespage [~jamespage@host81-153-227-203.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<highvoltage> 13:28 < highvoltage> LTSP Live is in a pretty bad state at the moment, but that's bugs and isn't directly affected by the feature freeze on Thursday.
<highvoltage> 13:28 -!- e-jat [~fenris@120.140.181.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<highvoltage> 13:29 -!- ripple [~ripple@59.25.240.38] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
<highvoltage> 13:30 < highvoltage> I propose a bug day for 16 March, this page will be published to the frontpage if no one has a problem with the date (or the lolbug):  http://edubuntu.org/2011-02-23/edubuntu-bug-day-16-march
<highvoltage> 13:30 < czajkowski> highvoltage: would you not tie in with UGJ ?
<highvoltage> 13:31 < highvoltage> czajkowski: admittingly, I haven't been following the UGJ stuff recently, is there one planned for that week?
<highvoltage> 13:31 < highvoltage> czajkowski: I'd prefer it if it could tie in somehow with that
<highvoltage> 13:31 < czajkowski> highvoltage: 2 weeks later
<highvoltage> 13:32 < czajkowski> highvoltage: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/23/ubuntu-global-jam-coming-soon/
<highvoltage> 13:32 -!- cyphermox [~cyphermox@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.active.cyphermox] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
<highvoltage> 13:32 -!- chrisccoulson [~chr1s@ubuntu/member/chrisccoulson] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> 13:33 < highvoltage> czajkowski: that would've been nice, but it's after beta freeze, ideally we should do it before beta freeze imho
<highvoltage> 13:33 < highvoltage> (beta freeze is also UI freeze this time round)
<highvoltage> 13:34 -!- davmor2 [~davmor2@cpc16-wolv15-2-0-cust74.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: I'm outta here]
<highvoltage> 13:34 < czajkowski> :s
<highvoltage> 13:36 < highvoltage> I think we should do something for UGJ anyway, it would be good for documentation, website/wiki updates and other close-to-release stuff
<highvoltage> 13:37  * stgraber waves
<mhall119> did I miss something
<highvoltage> nothing more than what's pasted above
<highvoltage> and that we'll more or less resume at the right time
<highvoltage> not that I have a lot more to say :)
<alkisg> :) ty for the update :)
<highvoltage> (but someone else might)
<highvoltage> (*might*)
<highvoltage> real edubuntu meeting in 5 minutes
#edubuntu 2011-02-24
<nothingman> hi, all
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mhall119> good afternoon
<mhall119> anyone around?
<highvoltage> mhall119: hey
<mhall119> highvoltage: hiya
<mhall119> wanted to share some good newas
<mhall119> as of March 14th, I will be working for Canonical as a web develoer
<highvoltage> mhall119: congratulations!
<highvoltage> mhall119: someone else in the channel is joining Canonical too, I'm not sure how public that is yet though :)
<mhall119> ah, nice
 * mhall119 waits to hear who
<mhall119> I'd ask in what capacity, but that would probably give it away
<highvoltage> you'll get that answer from someone in a private window :)
<mhall119> I did
<mhall119> :)
#edubuntu 2011-02-25
<Ahmuck> what is the software goal, target audience of edubuntu?
<highvoltage> mhall119: just uploaded a new debmower, tested it on a clean machine and it makes a bootable disc from the qimo template
<highvoltage> mhall119: still shows all those (mostly harmless) error messages and you can't cancel it, but that's what I'm doing next
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah and it still asks for the grub installation which you should just manually cancel for now
<mhall119> highvoltage: have you tried booting the resulting iso?
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep
<highvoltage> good morning mhall119
<mhall119> morning highvoltage
<highvoltage> oops I actually meant to say mgariepy, but yes good morning to you too mhall119 :)
<mhall119> :P
 * mhall119 is off to the passport office
<mgariepy> so highvoltage did you had time to think about washing my car ?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: I might have to do that since I'll need your car to move those desks :)
<mgariepy> highvoltage, nice :D
<mgariepy> but those desk fit very very tight in my car..
<mgariepy> i moved one at mike's place last summer...
<mgariepy> those are ikea corner table right ?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: yep
<highvoltage> mgariepy: but I guess I can make a plan B
<mgariepy> well you know, i kinda like the idea that involve someone but not me washing my car part of the plan A :P
<mgariepy> just kidding haha
<mgariepy> i'll gladly help you move those :)
<asdfghhh> HI
#edubuntu 2011-02-27
<msaul_> I installed Edubuntu 10.10 with LTSP option. For some reason, can't connect to Internet although my system is recognised by router and gives IP address
<msaul_> Was wondering if someone could give any tips? I have used Edubuntu LTSP before many times... but this seems new problem...
<msaul_> I'll try back during the daytime... gotta go
<msaul_> Hi, I installed Edubuntu (ltsp option), but cannot connect to Internet, although my eth0 connection is given an IP address, and is recognised by my router. Was wondering if I need to configure something?
#edubuntu 2012-02-21
<liher> hola
<liher> que entorno de escritorio tendra la 12.04?
<liher> hola?
#edubuntu 2012-02-22
<highvoltage> hola
<highvoltage> (I don't understand spanish though)
<stgraber> hallo
<highvoltage> alk<tab>
<highvoltage> hey alkisg
<alkisg> high highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: we still have an iTalc slide on http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/precise/edubuntu-ubiquity-slideshow/
<highvoltage> alkisg: would you be able to come up with some new text we can put in there for epoptes?
<alkisg> highvoltage: well at first glance we can keep the existing message there, epoptes can do all the stuff italc does
<alkisg> But if we need something more ... hm...
<highvoltage> heh, ok. I'll just rename it and replace the screenshot
<alkisg> Some features that epoptes has, that italc doesn't... dynamic client detection, ltsp integration, ...most stuff actually works (e.g. not even logout worked in italc/linux), execute custom commands on the clients, and some minor features like broadcasting in a window or sound muting
 * highvoltage adds that
<highvoltage> Installation de udev...
<highvoltage> Mise Ã  jour du serveur virtuel...
<highvoltage> ERREUR: L'exÃ©cution du script '/etc/vsmanage/models/base/all/post.d/05upgrade.sh' a Ã©chouÃ© (retour d'un code de sortie diffÃ©rent de zÃ©ro).
<highvoltage> Voir /var/log/vsmanage/vsmanage.log pour plus de dÃ©tails.
<highvoltage> (sorry, totally wrong channel)
<alkisg> stgraber: can we move ./ltsp-trunk/server/scripts/debian/policy-rc.d.ltsp to ltsp-client, and dpkg-divert it on ltsp-client.postinst, and also symlink it to /etc/grub.d/00-avoid-grub-update?
<stgraber> alkisg: not sure I follow, policy-rc.d should only be done from ltsp-build-client as otherwise, installing ltsp-client on a non-LTSP machine will prevent all init scripts from starting (I know it's not possible yet, but it's the long term goal still)
<alkisg> stgraber: once use case is to be able to build clients on regular machines but still be able to transfer them to the server and maintain them with chroot afterwards
<alkisg> That policy wrapper doesn't do harm on regular machines
<alkisg> (otherwise ltsp clients wouldn't even boot)
 * stgraber needs to read the script
<alkisg> stgraber: in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/936810 I have a list of things to do, most of them are packaging tasks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936810 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "Make ltsp-client package installable on regular machines" [Wishlist,In progress]
<stgraber> right, it checks the environment
<alkisg> I can send a debdiff + test them. I don't think we can do it in sync with vagrantc as we're too diverted with debian on that
<stgraber> dpkg-divert is generally considered evil, so the least we have to do it, the better really
<alkisg> So when we're done he can check the diff + sync what he wants
<alkisg> Indeed, we only do it for the chroot maintainance
<alkisg> We don't need it for maintaining or booting ltsp in regular machines
<alkisg> And I think it's documented that for chroots that's the appropriate method
<stgraber> I'd prefer we ship a separate file as /etc/grub.d/00-avoid-grub-update that exits "1" instead of "101" and tells the user why it's exitting
<alkisg> Yes, that'd be better
<stgraber> can't we make ltsp-chroot write and remove the policy-rc.d file instead?
<alkisg> ...sure why not!
<stgraber> I think it'd make sense to move that kind of chroot maintenance stuff to ltsp-chroot and maybe have ltsp-build-client call ltsp-chroot
<alkisg> In the same sense, ltsp-chroot can also install the grub-update diversion
<alkisg> Do you want us to go through the packaging stuff together whenever you have time? Would you like me to prepare a .debdiff instead?
<stgraber> indeed grub should be done by ltsp-chroot too (writting and removing the file)
<stgraber> for the packaging, it'd be great if you could commit your changes by small chunks to a branch of ubuntu:ltsp, then send a merge proposal
<stgraber> that way I can see the different commits and it's much easier to review
<alkisg> Sure, will do the same for ltspfs too
<alkisg> (if it's a different packaging, haven't looked)
<stgraber> ltspfs is maintained directly in Debian, so ideally, send your changes to vagrant
<stgraber> and if we need them in Ubuntu 12.04, we'll need to do some paperwork ;)
<alkisg> Nah for ltspfs it's just a small bugfix :D
<alkisg> For ltsp, yes I think we'll need it :)
<alkisg> Ah stgraber can I upload a new version of epoptes with modified UI, no additional features?
<alkisg> UI freeze is tomorrow, right?
<alkisg> Or do I need to get it to debian first, and sync later? (which will get me past uif...)
<stgraber> alkisg: upload it as <version>-0ubuntu1 to Ubuntu directly, then have vagrant upload <version>-1 and sync it to Ubuntu
<alkisg> Thanks!
<stgraber> that way we have the new UI before UI freeze and then we're back in sync with Debian
<highvoltage> alkisg: I updated the slide for epoptes on http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/precise/edubuntu-ubiquity-slideshow/ - let me know if I should change anything further
<stgraber> highvoltage: the Edubuntu grey looks a bit weird on the blue background, did you try in white instead?
<highvoltage> I could do that
<alkisg> stgraber: bit of help? epoptes/trunk$ debuild -S -sa
<alkisg> ...dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (quilt)': no upstream tarball found at ../epoptes_0.4.3.orig.tar.{bz2,gz,lzma,xz}
<stgraber> well, you're obviously missing a .orig.tar.gz tarball ;)
<alkisg> :) some magic to tell debuild to create one?
<stgraber> not really, it's not debuild's job
<stgraber> let me have a look at the branch, I'm not familiar with epoptes' trunk
<stgraber> oh, you have a debian directory in your trunk, interesting ...
<alkisg> It's easier for maintainance...
<alkisg> I also had a native package at first but vagrantc changed it
<alkisg> Let me push the changelog btw
<stgraber> yeah, and it looks like vagrant has been repacking your tarball too
<alkisg> OK, pushed, that's what I want to upload
<stgraber> so in theory:
<alkisg> So, am I supposed to manually generated a tar.gz before running debuild?!
<stgraber> - bzr export ../epoptes-0.4.3
<stgraber> - cd ../epoptes-0.4.3
<stgraber> - rm -Rf debian/
<stgraber> - cd ..
<stgraber> - tar -zcf epoptes_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz epoptes-0.4.3/
<stgraber> - cp -R trunk/debian epoptes-0.4.3/
<stgraber> - cd epoptes-0.4.3/
<stgraber> - debuild -S -sa
<alkisg> Gotcha, thanks, trying...
<stgraber> that should give you: epoptes_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz (without debian/) + epoptes_0.4.3-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz (with only debian/)
<stgraber> put them somewhere before you upload so I can make sure it's indeed clean and vagrant won't have an heart attack when seeing them ;)
<alkisg> stgraber: epoptes_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz contains an epoptes-0.4.3 folder, while epoptes_0.4.3-0ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz contains debian/ without any parent folders, is this ok?
<alkisg> (other than that all seem fine, uploading...)
<alkisg> (to an ftp dir... :))
<alkisg> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/tmp/epoptes/
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> looking now
<stgraber> yep, looks all good
<alkisg> Many thanks! :)
<alkisg> Uploaded, /me crosses fingers...
#edubuntu 2012-02-23
<alkisg> stgraber: I've started doing some ltsp packaging changes: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ltsp/changes
<alkisg> I left the nbd-server configuration change for later on, because I'd like to talk again about what part is packaging and what is dynamically generated by ltsp-update-image
#edubuntu 2012-02-24
<highvoltage> "epoptes' UI". nice apostrophe use there, stgraber :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: not sure if that's common to all the variants of english, but my english teachers were pretty picky about it ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: no I wasn't sarcastic or anything, it's very good English, just uncommon for 2nd or 3rd language English speakers to get right :)
<jocker69> hi all
#edubuntu 2013-02-20
<josepm> hola
#edubuntu 2013-02-23
<nu2ub> Hello everyone
<nu2ub> need help
<nu2ub> I am new to ubuntu had 12.10 installed but due to a display glitch decided to move to 12.04. In the process found Edubuntu 12.04.Since I have kids i decided to install this. The boot cd worked fine and was connected to Internet during install... Now it does not pick any of the wireless
<nu2ub> how do i fix that
<nu2ub> did this install about half an hour ago. It did not connect to the internet when i started the new installation.
<nu2ub> Can someone help plz
<nu2ub> the option for wireless Networks in the top  right button is shaded (can't click on it)
<nu2ub> I only have one user account but for some reason it seems it is not the admin/root account
<jbicha> nu2ub: try https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/ubuntu-help/user-forgottenpassword.html
<jbicha> never mind, I don't think that's your problem
<jbicha> could you try #ubuntu
<nu2ub> ok
<nu2ub> will go to ubuntu
<nu2ub> How do i login as an Admin or root
#edubuntu 2015-02-20
<highvoltage> stgraber: When you have a chance, can you copy the 14.04.2 images to your mirror as well?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I'll do that later today
<stgraber> highvoltage: rsync in progress but the cdimage rsync server is freakishly slow...
#edubuntu 2015-02-21
<stgraber> highvoltage: mirror updated
<highvoltage> stgraber: cool
#edubuntu 2016-02-22
<Guest32118> hello guys
<Guest32118> i m looking to have a small edunbutu on a small usbstick . my stick is 1gb.
<highvoltage> that is indeed small.
#edubuntu 2016-02-23
<gintoki> hi
<gintoki> anyone knows a company that actively supports edubuntu in the netherlands?
<gintoki> or otherwise offers a more open source kinda solution for schools
<highvoltage> hey gintoki
#edubuntu 2016-02-25
<Bleakney> hi @ll! I never used Edubuntu but am thinking about installing it. Is there maybe a list of all the tools and softwares that came default with Edubuntu?
<Bleakney> Anyone?
<Bleakney> No, obviously no one... However there is a good review on youtube with all the stuff - looks good.
#edubuntu 2017-02-20
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [ppc64el] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [i386] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [amd64] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [armhf] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [arm64] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [powerpc] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: mutter [s390x] (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.23.90-0ubuntu2] (desktop-extra, edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2017-02-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.9-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.9-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-02-24
<cyb3rjunkie> I just wanted to let someone know the edubuntu.org website seems out of date.
<cyb3rjunkie> It lists 14.04.2 LTS as the latest LTS distro, but I think it should be 14.04.5
<cyb3rjunkie> I'm a first-time visitor and it was a little confusing at first. Otherwise, awesome site and project! Thanks!
#edubuntu 2018-02-22
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gegl [s390x] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.3.28-2] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gegl [ppc64el] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.3.28-2] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gegl [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.3.28-2] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gegl [i386] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.3.28-2] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
<DeeVeeDees> Hello. I am having an iteresting issue with Edbuntu 14.04 and playing DVD's. Is there a common issue getting DVD's to play on this verison of Debian?
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: gegl [arm64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [0.3.28-2] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
