#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-02
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Mithrandir> lool: what do you think about being added to ubuntu-mobile so you can merge in fixes you do in Debian yourself?  If you'd rather have me or Adilson do it, that's fine, but I'll be happy to have you in the group.
<JackZhu> hello
<lool> Mithrandir: Sounds good :)
<lool> Mithrandir: I'm "lool" on launchpad
<Mithrandir> lool: can you click the "join this team" button on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile ?
<Mithrandir> ah, no, I could just add you
<Mithrandir> (added)
<lool> Thanks
<ian_brasil> Mithrandir: thx for approving me to Mobile Developers on launchpad
<Mithrandir> happy to
<Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: I'm working on getting the control panel bits into the archive now, fyi.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Cool. Thanks.
<agoliveira> bobux: Hi Bob, are you there?
<bspencer> agoliveira, you called?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi, yes. I just wanted to know if you guys over there need anything that's not packaged yet, something missing, etc.
<bspencer> agoliveira, I haven't looked at control panel lately (last few days)
<bspencer> that was still pending
<bspencer> and the other thing was that we need to break out the configuration part of hildon-desktop
<bspencer> I'll figure out just what should be separated and send you a proposal
<bspencer> for example, making a "hildon-config" package or "hildon-ume-config" etc
<bspencer> that would include changes to /etc/hildon-desktop/ folder for showing different UI's
<agoliveira> bspencer: The new control panel was about to be uploaded to the repository 
<bspencer> agoliveira, did you try it out?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Not the package yet. I tested the original in my machine and it worked.
<bspencer> sure.  that's what I meant
<bspencer> does "it worked" mean it had some applets in there or just empty?
<bspencer> we were looking for a good example of a working applet because ours hangs :)
<bspencer> (just control panel, not the other applets)
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hmmm... good question. To tell you the truth, I just don't remember now.
<bspencer> well, we'll check it out.  I've pinged some Nokia guys and will ping again.
<agoliveira> Sorry I can't help you with that right now as I just started moving my dev env to a new machine but I'll give it a shot as soon as I finish it.
<bspencer> cool thanks
<Mithrandir> h-c-p fails to build at the moment; I'll look at that tomorrow.
<Mithrandir> but it's in the archive now
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you try to upload matchbox-window-manager-maemo?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: sorry, no.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok, just to know :)
<agoliveira> mdz: Hi. Talking about next UDS, I wonder if you think would be useful to invite some of the guys from projects like GMAE, Openmoko, etc?
<jacob-laptop> hi, i need an invitation letter from the UK side to get a VISA, does anyone know whom to talk to?
<rusty> jacob-laptop, you should send an email to Matt Zimmerman (on here as mdz)
<jacob-laptop> rusty: when do you plan to be there?
<rusty> jacob-laptop, i fly out on the 7th, to arrive on the 8th
<agoliveira> jacob-laptop: I just hope you don't need it on paper :(
<rusty> and i will be in London for the rest of the week... then taking a train down to where GUADEC is at
<rusty> jacob-laptop, btw, the email address is mdz@ubuntu.com
<jacob-laptop> agoliveira: i do need that in paper.
<agoliveira> jacob-laptop: Send cc to claire.newman@canonical.com and explain the case. I believe that she would be the one that Matt would have to talk to anyway.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-03
<macogw> are the things that you're working on putting ubuntu on smart phones or just for internet?
<bspencer> Bo-ster
<Bo> Hi, bob
<bspencer> hey
<Bo> johnV said I can find you here
<Bo> : )
<Bo> the hildon-control-panel build successfully now :)
<Bo> thanks to johnV's help
<bspencer> good to hear
<bspencer> w/ osso-af-settings change?
<Bo> yes
<bspencer> is hildon-libs-base for control panel or hildon-desktop?
<bspencer> because I can build hildon-desktop on my system and I don't have hildon-libs-base
<Bo> we just have to start from a clean repo
<bspencer> I think that tko said hildon-lib-base was outdated and no longer needed.
<Bo> for control panel
<bspencer> ok
<bspencer> so control panel needs osso-af-settings and hildon-base-libs
<Bo> absolutely :_
<bspencer> and this is from the recent "refactoring" code Nokia pointed us at, right?
<Bo> yes
<bspencer> ok.  got it
<Bo> I'm working on the clock thing
<Bo> one little question
<bspencer> yes
<Bo> how do I config the length of my applet
<Bo> seems that it's too short
<bspencer> set the preferred size
<HappyCamp-John> Who let Bo on here? ;)
* bspencer gets the exact code...
<Bo> ha, hi, JohnV
<bspencer> gtk_widget_set_size_request (btn, 52, 52);
<bspencer> just make it wider.
<Bo> I see, doesn't see any change though
<Bo> I didn't already 
<bspencer> the problem with the top marquee is that it uses a GtkHBox, so all the controls just get packed to the left
<HappyCamp-John> Hi Bo!
<Bo> I'll try 
<bspencer> hm... I tried this a few days ago and it seemed to work
<Bo> maybe some other mistake :)
<Bo> I can fix it, hah
<Bo> :)
<bspencer> i need to figure out how to make a plugin stretch to fill the max horiz space.
<bspencer> I'm sure there is a way , but I don't know it off the top of my head.
<bspencer> just make it fixed for now and we'll adjust it later.
<Bo> OK
<Mithrandir> morning
<bspencer> Mithrandir, morning, or...not for another 30mins
<Mithrandir> IRC greeting time.  Always morning. :-)
<bspencer> checking out for the night
<bspencer> Bo, anything else?
<bspencer> Bo -- can you see if horaceli needs anything?
<Mithrandir> Bo: what source package is hildon-libs-base built from?
* bspencer checks maemo trunk...
<Mithrandir> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/ ?
<bspencer> I think we got it from https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/
<bspencer> yes.
<Mithrandir> somehow that doesn't look too alive.
<Mithrandir> last entry in the changelog is in october 2006
<bspencer> I think there must be a lingering dependency inside the control panel code
<bspencer> we just need to ferret it out
<Mithrandir> if it's something we need, I'll be happy to get it into the repo, but I'm just a tad sceptical until some of the maemo guys tell me otherwise.
<bspencer> yep
<Bo> yes
<Bo> from https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-base-lib/
<bspencer> let's get tko or other Nokia guys to suggest a solution
<Mithrandir> tko_: ^^ ; could you give us a hint as to whether hildon-base-lib is used or not?
<bspencer> I'm going to sleep.  Take care.
<Mithrandir> see you around
<Bo> bye , Bob,
<Bo> nice sleep :)
<tko_> Mithrandir, it's not. the functionality is available in gnomevfs and inotify
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: so, I'm looking at matchbox-window-manager, and tbh, I'd rather just port the few fixes we want than use the maemo one.
<tko_> it's that bad? :-] 
<Mithrandir> no, not really, but easy merging with Debian is something we care about.
<Mithrandir> so it's actually more that it doesn't gain us anything significant to go with the maemo one.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I agree with you but we need something fast for testing and Matt asked me to import this one in a different branch so I did it.
<agoliveira> BTW, IIRC maemo's version is upstream + patches so it shouldn't be hard to sync anyway.
<Mithrandir> the packaging seems to be based on an old debian snapshot
<agoliveira> The packaging maybe but the code itself comes from a very new matchbox WM.
<agoliveira> We can just revamp the packaging...
<Mithrandir> the complete size of the diff is about 2.5kloc; it's not a big deal to fix.
<Mithrandir> and most of that again is theme stuff
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes, that's true. Well, if you think so, it's the same to me.
<Mithrandir> hm, we should probably get upstream's SVN imported
<Mithrandir> any chance you could get it imported?  http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-window-manager
<agoliveira> I still don't get power to do it. I can just prepare and ask.
<agoliveira> But we already have it on main so what do you suggest?
<Mithrandir> well, upstream's repo is the one listed above; I suggest we get that imported, branch into ~ubuntu-mobile and work on getting a good package there.
<agoliveira> I understood that, I mean we already have a matchbox WM in the gutsy repository. Are you talking about replace it?
<Mithrandir> oh, yes, or just update it with the patches we want
<agoliveira> Ah, fine. I just tought that was exactly to not mess with the current package that Matt asked to import that one in a different branch.
<agoliveira> that one = maemo's
<Mithrandir> now, let's see if this thingabob builds.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you talking about which one?
<Mithrandir> matchbox-wm
<agoliveira> Ok, so I think we should sync here :) Have you imported from svn and are building it or just building the one from maemo that I imported before?
<Mithrandir> no. :-)
<Mithrandir> I've taken the delta between maemo's svn version and the one already in the archive and blatted most of the delta onto the latter.
<agoliveira> Got it.
<Mithrandir> I'd like to get an import of upstream svn so we can look at what the delta there is and get it down.
<agoliveira> Fine. I'll arrange that on LP.
<agoliveira> Done. Just need to poke someone to import it.
<Mithrandir> thanks a lot
<agoliveira> (Less than 2.5 minutes - I'm getting good at this ;) )
<Mithrandir> yup, you are. :-)
<agoliveira> https://launchpad.net/matchbox-window-manager
<Mithrandir> this compiled for me now, so I'll just upload it and hope it doesn't break too much
<agoliveira> Cool
<Mithrandir> my brain is about to melt so I'll go do something else for a bit
<agoliveira> I know what is like :) I'm going lunch in a few minutes.
<agoliveira> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQgF0pRkjMc
<Mithrandir> there, uploaded.
<Mithrandir> go wild testing it when it's built?
<agoliveira> Sure. I'll try it out as soon as it gets there.
<Mithrandir> cheers
<TeTeT> will Ubuntu Mobile support the Menlow platform? on the wiki most seem to be for McCaslin. 
<Mithrandir> TeTeT: yes
<rusty> has anyone noticed that attempting to install "hal" in a chroot will now fail in the postinst script while attempting to start hal?
<rusty> looks like something that happened over night
<agoliveira> New matchbox window manager seens to be running ok. I've being playing with it a bit now with no crashes.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Looks like your changes didn't break anything very basic. Let's see if the other guys find anything.
<agoliveira> By "very basic" I mean anything so obvious that a can crash right away ;)
<agoliveira> a/a/I
<agoliveira> Geez... I think I need a coffee
<agoliveira> rusty, bobux: New matchbox-window-manager is on the repository. Give it a shot if you dare ;)
<rusty> what package version is that?
<agoliveira> Version: 1.2-1ubuntu1
<agoliveira> This is our matchbox wm with Maemo patches applied.
<agoliveira> rusty: I would like to talk about the startup script when you have some time.
<rusty> i can talk now... worse case there will be some delay when somebody ask me a question in the phone meeting i am in
<rusty> crap... now i see why installing hal inside a chroot is breaking
<agoliveira> rusty: Don't need to be now, I can wait a bit.
<rusty> agoliveira, lets go ahead and chat
<agoliveira> Fine. To me. So, what do you have in mind?
<rusty> well... i think we need a mininalized display manager
<rusty> where at the very least, we start with an upstart script that reads a config to find the default user, and then starts X and then starts a bunch of session scripts
<agoliveira> As a mean to login? Multiple users?
<rusty> eventually, this would provide the ability to have multi-user login
<rusty> right now i have a helloworld upstart script that runs startx as root
<rusty> and then have /root/.xinitrc that startsup hildon
<agoliveira> If you think multi user is necessary (and I tend to agree), I would go for the minimal-gdm from start.
<rusty> this is a bit of a hack, but works
<rusty> what all does a minimal-gdm pull in?
<agoliveira> BTW, minimal-gdm is a way of speak :) I don't actually know if there is one :)
<agoliveira> I'll have to check if there is such a beast.
<rusty> ok
<agoliveira> But if there is, it will make things easier for us.
<rusty> so then... what all does gdm bring in?
<agoliveira> Well, from start, things like remote logins we don't need I guess.
<rusty> yea
<agoliveira> perhaps we could try XDM
<rusty> i was thinking more long term
<agoliveira> Hmmm...
<rusty> hell, we can just have an upstart script and configure xinitrc
<rusty> that is, configure xinitrc to startup hildon-desktop and all it's deps
<agoliveira> I think we need to round up what we need and choose something based on this but, for starts, I don't think that we need to put our expectations very high or we might get in trouble with lots of libs, dependencies, etc
<rusty> is there a mdm?  as in mobile desktop manager?
<agoliveira> What about xdm? It's simple but flexible enough I guess.
<agoliveira> Dunno
<agoliveira> Give some time to reseach a bit
<rusty> it's just if we created something real quick, where for starters it's a simple upstart script, then we could add a new package called something like mdm
<agoliveira> Let's compromize then, give me today to research the subject and if I didn'y come out with something we do our way, is that ok?
<rusty> ok
<agoliveira> Deal
<Mithrandir> use gdm with autologin?
<Mithrandir> rusty: have you had any progress on the project-builder front, doing stuff as non-root?
<Mithrandir> or would you like me to plunge into it?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: we are talking about having something lighter than gdm but with more or less the same main features.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: but why?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Why what? No use gdm or use something similar? :)
<Mithrandir> why not use gdm
<Mithrandir> ?
<agoliveira> It is an option but if we are thinking about reduce resurces, I want to check lighter alternatives.
<agoliveira> reduce dependencies, etc
<agoliveira> I did not eliminate the idea of using gdm, just want to be sure it's the best way.
<Mithrandir> I think we should use gdm if we want to have multiuser support (something I'm not convinced we really want) or just an upstart script or similar if not.
<agoliveira> I think that at least for webpads, multiuser is good as it's not a very personal device, it's expensive and, as such, tend to be shared.
<Mithrandir> depends on where in the world you are, I guess.. I consider a laptop (which is even more expensive) a personal device which I don't share with anybody.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Well, I don't share mine either but I do share my n770 with my wife (not now, I got her a Palm TX :) ) so, anyway, there's aways the option to autologin.
<Mithrandir> yeah
<agoliveira> Anyway, so far I didn't see much difference between using XDM or GDM, for instance. GDM is bigger, of course, but we do have space and GDM integrates better, looks nicer. So, I'm between use GDM or nothing, just a startup script.
<rusty> Mithrandir, i still need to do the changes to project-builder
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-04
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: have you had any luck with investigating the startup scripts?
<asac> uff ... just send mail about mobile browser ;)
<asac> hope its at least a bit comprehensible :)
<asac> setting up the bzr repo ... was just a pita :-D ... but i learn
<agoliveira> kylem: Hi. Just checking: do you have any news about the kernel for UME or have you already passed the ball completely to Amit?
<kylem> i've passed it to amit, a UME flavour should be in the next upload
<agoliveira> Cool. Do you know when it will be?
<kylem> soon? not today because ben is off.
<agoliveira> Right. Thanks.
<ian_brasil> ola
<mdz> agoliveira: how big is the a clean, current gutsy chroot with ubuntu-mobile installed?
<agoliveira> mdz: Currently, 360M
<mdz> agoliveira: thanks
<agoliveira> mdz: my pleasure
<agoliveira> mdz: I just remembred that today is 4/07, national holiday in US.
<agoliveira> I'll try to poke the guys anyway.
<agoliveira> mdz: Anyway, I'm preparing an email.
<agoliveira> Any Intel folks around?
<agoliveira> amitk: ping?
<amitk> agoliveira: pong
<agoliveira> amitk: Can you spend a few minutes? I need an update on the UME kernel status.
<amitk> yes
<agoliveira> Nice. So how is it?
<amitk> kyle created a draft version of the kernel config
<amitk> I will take that and hack it further once I am done with the Gutsy kernel release
<amitk> this should happen sometime tomorrow.
<agoliveira> Nice. So can we expect a first binary for tomorrow or later?
<amitk> I will also be starting the PowerManagementPolicy spec for MID tomorrow. This will based on the document from Intel
<amitk> we should be able to try to get a kernel binary by Friday
<agoliveira> Can you list me the modifications aplied?
<amitk> I don't have it right now
<amitk> I have to look at what Kyle has already done
<agoliveira> Can send it to me by email, then? I need this by tomorrow mornignfor a conference call.
<amitk> what time do you ned it by?
<amitk> s/ned/need
<agoliveira> I need that by 1500UTC
<amitk> agoliveira: I should be able to manage that. I will prioritize it tomorrow morning
<agoliveira> Great, thanks.
<amitk> np
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-05
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hey Bob. I just saw that you answered a few of my questions. Thanks a lot. I'll sure send you all a compiled version of the answers
<bspencer> yes, hopefully charlie can fill out the rest soon
<agoliveira> bspencer: A question: so the UI is still currently using flash, right?
<bspencer> yes, currently
<agoliveira> bspencer: and can you give us the prototipe to play a bit?
<bspencer> we hope to make a public project out of it in the next few days
<bspencer> then it can be clearer
<agoliveira> Fine
<bspencer> agoliveira, totally
<bspencer> the whole thing
<agoliveira> Great :)
<jscinoz> Hey
<jscinoz> Is it known what handsets/PDA's ubuntu mobile will run on?
<ian_brasil> hi
<ian_brasil> maybe this will help...i have apt-get upgraded and started hildon desktop inside chroot...i try to change the background image and i get a core dump
<ian_brasil> ** ERROR **: file hildon-file-system-settings.c: line 921 (_hildon_file_system_prepare_banner): assertion failed: (conn != NULL)
<ian_brasil> aborting...
<ian_brasil> Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped)
<Mithrandir> restart dbus in the chroot
<ian_brasil> thanks, that works
<Mithrandir> hi adilson
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: I saw you had a chat with bob spencer last night, but it seems he failed to submit a status update to the list.  Any idea whats up with his specs?
<Mithrandir> or rather, are you on top of it, or I should I ask the intel guys?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: No. I just received an answer from him by email to a list of itens I sent regarding the SoW.
<Mithrandir> ok
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: At least today yet I should be up to my neck with that problem so you better ask them yourself if you don't mind.
<Mithrandir> yup
<amitk> agoliveira: Can an updated list of UME kernel config changes wait 60 mins?
<agoliveira> amitk: Yes, no prtoblem. I want your final cut on this before send it to Matt.
<amitk> agoliveira: final cut may not happen in an hour. But I can send you the current list soon.
<agoliveira> amitk: The meeting was postponed to tomorrow 1200UTC so we can take some more time on this today.
<Mithrandir> well, I'd like to have a status update on the spec before the meeting at 1600 UTC anyway.
<Mithrandir> (as per the -mobile list)
<amitk> agoliveira: ok
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ah, yes. That would be nice too.
<amitk> mithrandir: I have had no time yet to work on the MID power mgmt spec. agoliveira's request last night pre-empted yours. And I am doing a Gutsy kernel release simultaneously
<Mithrandir> amitk: that's ok
<Mithrandir> amitk: just having a single paragraph with the current state of the mobile kernel sent as an followup to my call for statuses on -mobile would be good.  Also, I believe the delivery status in LP should be moved to good progress?
* Mithrandir ponders whether the development environment spec should include an actual IDE or just all the relevant -dev packages.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: An IDE? Why? One can use many.
<Mithrandir> yes, though somebody has added "investigating $one_particular" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/DevelopmentEnvironment
<Mithrandir> I think just providing the bits is fine for most
<agoliveira> Yep.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: On the other hand, perhaps would be nice to at least make a note about that pyphantom as it's very specific to create hildon plugins.
<Mithrandir> true dat
<ian_brasil> i am working on pyphantom now, on the threading ...i think it is very promising
<Mithrandir> matchbox-keyboard seems kinda interesting.
* Mithrandir stretches
<Mithrandir> hi mauri
<agoliveira> Any intel persons around here yet?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: mauri just joined, but I haven't seen more of them
<agoliveira> ...but mauri :)
<mauri_> I'll go see where people are
<mauri_> Hi
<mauri_> Found Rob, he'll be here in a second.  We are coming back from a holiday yesterday...
<robr_> hola everyone
<agoliveira> Hi Rob.
<Mithrandir> mauri_: did you find any of the others?
<Mithrandir> iirc, Charlie is on holidays
<mauri_> still looking - one more minute
<Mithrandir> would it help you guys if we moved the meeting a couple of hours later?
<agoliveira> mauri_: BTW, will be Charlie working today? I desperately need some hardware answers on that list I sent yesterday.
<mauri_> Charlie is on holiday, I'm on the phone with Rusty, he won't be joining.  I'm looking for a different contact.
<agoliveira> mauri_: Hmmm... big problem. Is there anyone else who could help me with that list?
<mauri_> I just sent your email to Rob, he might be able to answer some questions.
<robr_> agoliveira, what are your questions?
<agoliveira> Thanks
<agoliveira> robr_: Mauri forwarded my email. Can we talk after the meeting?
<agoliveira> And. Mauri, if you speak to Rusty, ask him if he can take a look there too. We are in a very tight schedule here.
<agoliveira> Shall we start?
<Mithrandir> yes, we should
<Mithrandir> I've sent an email to the list of the specs with me as an assignee, so did amitk.
<Mithrandir> it would be good if those who haven't read those to take two minutes to read through them
<mauri_> agoliveira: I actually think I'll find a better contact, I'm looking
<Mithrandir> then we can go through the rest of the specs not covered in that update, as well as answer any questions.
<agoliveira> mauri_: Thanks
<Mithrandir> mauri_: any idea where bob is?  Or is he too on holiday?
<mauri_> I thought Bob would be here, I was on line with him yesterday and he is not on holiday today.
<Mithrandir> oh well, let's get going then
<Mithrandir> anybody got any questions about the updates sent to the list?
<agoliveira> I'm ok
<Mithrandir> mauri_: any questions from your side?
<mauri_> No, unfortunate that Bob and Rusty aren't here.  I apologize.  
<robr_> did our poulsbo patches make it into your kernel?
<mauri_> I am sending the Samsung Q1 Ultra systems today.
<Mithrandir> robr_: yes, they have been uploaded earlier today (iirc)
<Mithrandir> mauri_: nice, shipping worked out well?
<agoliveira> mauri_: Any idea on when they should arrive? Matt is a bit worried about that.
<robr_> Mithrandir, excellent
<mauri_> So far on my end, but that isn't the receiving end!
<Mithrandir> amitk: are you here?
<mauri_> When shipping to Brazil, I really have no idea.
* ian_brasil a long time!
<agoliveira> mauri_: Actually I'm more concernbed about the units being send to UK.
<mauri_> I will choose my fastest option from my end.
<amitk> mithrandir: yes
<agoliveira> We appreciate that. Thanks.
<Mithrandir> amitk: what other kernel changes in addition to the ones you have committed are you expecting?
<Mithrandir> amitk: and can you confirm that the first round of patches has been uploaded?
<amitk> mithrandir: more drivers will be trimmed
<amitk> mithrandir: and filesystems probably
<Mithrandir> ok
<amitk> mithrandir: the changes will be uploaded after the second round - late today or tomorrow morning
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<amitk> robr_: the patches are in. I am uploading the kernel today hopefully
<Mithrandir> given that neither Bob nor Charlie is here, it's kinda hard to get an update from them on the status on their specs, unless mauri_ can provide it?
<mauri_> I can't, we need Bob.  I can make sure that Bob gives status via the mailing list when I talk to him. 
<Mithrandir> thanks, that would be very useful
* agoliveira also would be glad to have some updates on the state of UI and project builder
<agoliveira> Sorry for the "/me". Old habit :)
<Mithrandir> I've begun playing around with project builder, but haven't got a full grasp on it yet.
<mauri_> I can make sure that happens.
<agoliveira> Thanks.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Me too but there's some caveats that Rusty told me that have to be dealt manually. I just don't know how :)
<Mithrandir> yup
<Mithrandir> there's bob!  Excellent.
<bspencer> thanks, only 30min late
<bspencer> a record
<Mithrandir> *cough*
<agoliveira> Hi Bob!
<bspencer> hey agoliveira 
<Mithrandir> we might want to look at moving those meetings a bit later, if that works better for you?
<bspencer> 9am is fine
<bspencer> my bad
<Mithrandir> just not the day after July 4th? ;-)
<bspencer> yeah, maybe :)
<Mithrandir> can you give us an update on your specs?
<bspencer> I didn't get to the media player spec
<bspencer> but we have made good progress on its definition
<bspencer> so updating the spec should be quick
<bspencer> I thikn that was my last spec
<bspencer> at least up until now
<bspencer> I see a couple were approved, thanks
<bspencer> wrt UI, I hope to work with agoliveira to get our UI in ubuntu very soon
<Mithrandir> -utilities is marked as blocked; it should be unblocked now, shouldn't it?
<bspencer> it is a matter of configuration and a new theme
<bspencer> and a new plugins package
<bspencer> wrt utilities...
<bspencer> we could still use some input from Nokia guys
<agoliveira> bspencer: Cool.
<Mithrandir> when can we expect to see the code pushed into launchpad?
<bspencer> we exchanged an email with lucas about control panel
<bspencer> Mithrandir, lets shoot for this time next week.
<bspencer> we need a good control panel example applet
<bspencer> because ours hangs :)
<Mithrandir> even if it's not final, having something we can start packaging and which has roughly the correct shape is useful
<bspencer> totally agree.
<bspencer> control panel applet: we're following the old maemo 3.x guide, but with the new control panel refactored code, it hangs
<bspencer> but we sent our sample on to lucas and will work to get that resolved
<Mithrandir> ok, good
<bspencer> Mithrandir, for UI, I wanted to get all the pieces working and push something up that worked, so it has been a bit slow.  But we are ready
<Mithrandir> same goes for UI; even if it's not finished, having something we can start packaging is valuable.
<bspencer> one note about UI:  it currently uses flash, so we require Adobe flash plugin
<Mithrandir> can it use gnash?
<bspencer> we will like to have non-flash alternatives in the future
<bspencer> I tried one of the ubuntu flash packages, not sure if it is gnash I tried, but it didn't work
<bspencer> our flash UI is v8+ I think
<bspencer> gnash supports 4?
* bspencer doesn't know for sure... needs to double check
<agoliveira> And I think gnash don't support action scripts at all or at least very poorly.
<Mithrandir> unsure, it should support 6 or 7 completely and bits of 8 and 9, I think.
<bspencer> right.  I didn't have luck wit hthe free flash plugin
<bspencer> btw, our flash UI is intended as a working example with much possibility for improvement :)
<bspencer> it can set the expectations, and the pieces are in place for incremental improvement
<Mithrandir> ok, cool
<Mithrandir> we'd need to work out some way to get it usefully into the archive since we can't have the adobe flash player there for legal reasons.
<Mithrandir> how is the browser coming along?
<mauri_> agoliveira: I sent you a contact name in email
<bspencer> on the flash -- what is the right approach?
<agoliveira> mauri_: Thanks.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, do you want to discuss what to do about the flash here, or later?
<bspencer> browser:  I saw that asac had created a repository for his pull of the Mozilla tree
<Mithrandir> later, on the list, I think.
<bspencer> and made some changes, and added a "mid-browser" tag
<bspencer> we also have a respository for browser, but are slow to open it
<bspencer> hopefully in the next few days
<Mithrandir> ok.
<bspencer> then asac and I can sync on one location and make progress
<bspencer> just trying to keep all the trains moving in the right direction.   Really appreciate asac's help here too.
<Mithrandir> it's very important for us that we get access to the code you have so we can bring it out in the open and start integrating and debugging it.
<Mithrandir> (both for browser and other projects)
<bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, a very high priority for me
<bspencer> we don't like the current process of Intle doing work that isn't visible
<bspencer> but we will open up these repositories soon.
<asac> bspencer: actually the midbrowser application switch was what we discussed on weekend ... isn't it?
<bspencer> (for apps things, like project builder, browser, etc)
<bspencer> asac, yes.
<bspencer> asac, exactly that.
<asac> bspencer: ok ... i am really open to host it anywhere ;) ... do you have patches? maybe send them to me so I can try to integrate them properly?
<Mithrandir> asac: when can we have something in the archive?  Even if it's not different in significant ways from firefox at this stage?
<bspencer> asac, ok.
<asac> Mithrandir: we talked about this and thought that end off london sprint for initial upload would be good
<asac> Mithrandir: actually the firefox package is really straight forward
<Mithrandir> sounds good
<asac> Mithrandir: just branch current bzr ... then switch to use midbrowser ... done
<asac> of course rename package at al
<asac> read like: its fail safe to maintain nowadays ;)
<asac> bspencer: what about branding?
<Mithrandir> asac: lots of things are "just" and fairly small, but they need to happen regardless, so if you could take the time at the sprint to make that happen, it would be good.
<bspencer> asac, I call it "Mobile Internet Browser" as a place holder for a real name
<bspencer> although perhaps "internet" is redundant
<asac> and artwork? ... like a logo?
<asac> or just go with "free" branding?
<bspencer> asac, suggestions welcome.  We have a graphic artist here that can make something but picking a name is a headache
<bspencer> but that should be done eventually.
<Mithrandir> just call it mobile browser for now, then.
<asac> ok ... for now i will use the free branding ... and call it mobile browser
<Mithrandir> it's easy enough to change, right?
<bspencer> I'd prefer to have a brand name on the browser as opposed to something that people call idfferent things
<bspencer> but
<asac> if you have a better logo ... just push it to me
<bspencer> for now, "mobile browser" is good
<bspencer> ok
<asac> but please license it freely ;)
<bspencer> absolutely
<Mithrandir> ok, sounds like browser is moving in the right direction then.
<asac> cool
<asac> thanks ... i am out again, ok?
<bspencer> thanks asac 
<asac> bspencer: will you be in london on monday?
<asac> or not at all?
<bspencer> asac, no.  I will be there the latter part of the week
<bspencer> mid-Wed through Friday
<bspencer> and at GUADEC
<bspencer> (Saturday too, if you are still around)
<asac> ok ... then cu then ;).
<bspencer> k
<asac> i will fly at 1700
<asac> on sat
<asac> before we can work or drink or whatever :)
* agoliveira thinks that with the current airport caos in Brazil, probably I'll be doing the same :(
<bspencer> uh oh, not mdz
<mdz> ooga-booga
<mdz> I did hope to join you for the start of the meeting, but it's chaos as usual over here
<bspencer> we cancelled the project while you were gone
* agoliveira run to clear the logs :)
<Mithrandir> I actually think we're done now, unless anybody has any other business?
<bspencer> about the sprint:  can someone forward me the details
<mauri_> No, I do know that Rusty flies out on Saturday and Jacob is in the process of figuring out his visa (hopeful).
<Mithrandir> bspencer: they were sent to the list, iirc
<bspencer> address, time, etc.  (sorry, I can't find )
<mauri_> bspencer: I'll forward it to you, I have it
<bspencer> I'll recheck.   Thx mauri_ 
<agoliveira> bspencer, just ping me if you need anything else.
<bspencer> agoliveira, thanks
<bspencer> agoliveira, you leave Sat?
<Mithrandir> ok, anything more before we adjourn?
<agoliveira> bspencer: I hope so.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll give you an update post-meeting?
<bspencer> nothing from my end.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, sorry Rusty and Charlie were absent today
<bspencer> kind of lame that I was so late too.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: such things happen, let's try to make it better next time.
<bspencer> next week a meeting, or canceled?
<Mithrandir> I doubt we'll have an IRC meeting next week, since we'll all be face to face.
<Mithrandir> but having status reports on all specs mailed to the list would be nice anyway.
<mauri_> Mithrandir: I'll start tracking that from my end
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<Mithrandir> mauri_: and thanks for getting the devices ready to ship, I'm very much looking forward to having ubuntu mobile running on a real device
* agoliveira nods
<Mithrandir> seems like there's no other business, so adjourned.
<Mithrandir> woo < 1 hour! :-)
<agoliveira> Close  but < ;)
<ian_brasil> any news about other contributers at the sprint
<bspencer> there are benefits to no one coming to the mtg.
* agoliveira runs for 5 minutes to grab a coffee
<Mithrandir> mdz: can you answer ian_brasil's question?  He's based in london and would like to drop by to help on documentation.
<ian_brasil> i am in London all week doing nothing just waiting for my visa 
<mdz> Mithrandir: I don't understand the question
<Mithrandir> (and he knows it's not a community event, so we're going to work, not write specs and what usually happens at UDS-es)
<Mithrandir> mdz: he's asking if he can come to the sprint.
<mdz> if the question is whether he's welcome to stop by, the answer is yes
<mdz> bspencer: can you tell me how many people to expect from Intel? ball park?
<Mithrandir> and if so, what he needs to do, as in, should he mail claire?
<bspencer> mdz, 3-4
<mdz> Mithrandir: yes, he should
<mdz> bspencer: great, thanks.  claire will be relieved
<Mithrandir> clan or cvd?
<bspencer> bob, rusty, <charlie or equivalient>, maybe our build guy
<ian_brasil> claire@ubuntu.com ??
<mdz> bspencer: anyone who's coming Monday morning ought to have their name at the security desk in order to get into the building without a fuss
<bspencer> ok.  I arrive Wednesday, but Rusty should be there Monday
* agoliveira is back
<agoliveira> ian:  Claire Newman <claire.newman@canonical.com>   
<ian_brasil> thx
<agoliveira> amitk: Can you confirm to me if the current UME kernel has support for ACPI 2.0?
<agoliveira> rusty_: Rusty!
<rusty_> morning
<agoliveira> I was wondering if you would show up :) Have you seen my "small" email?
<rusty_> agoliveira, i think ACPI 2.0 support has been around for a while
<rusty_> yea, i was spending the 4th on the boat and drove back in this morning
<agoliveira> rusty_: Yes but specificaly for Intel core? I mean, is there anything different on Melown that would prevent ACPI 2.0 to work?
<rusty_> agoliveira, no, acpi is acpi
<agoliveira> rusty_: Cool, just confirming.
<agoliveira> rusty_: If you could take a look at that list, I will pay you a beer (not Budweiser! :) ).
<rusty_> ok
<agoliveira> Sorry but you know the joke about american beer to be like making love in a canoon, right? ;)
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-06
<antics> how's ubuntu-mobile coming along?
<antics> advice on getting involved?
<Mithrandir> antics: subscribe to the mailing list and join the discussions there, and take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/TODO ; also, it depends on your skill set and what you would like to help out with.
<mdz> antics: you can read the latest news on the ubuntu-mobile mailing list to see how things are going
<mdz> antics: for getting involved, check out the wiki page in the topic
<antics> mdz, Mithrandir: thanks, I did get on the mailing list and have been looking at the wiki
<antics> Mithrandir: I am an embedded systems dev mainly working with uClinux on the Blackfin but I have a strong background in linux on a variety of platforms
<antics> Mithrandir: I'll spend some time getting familiar with the dev environment and lurk around here until I see where I would best fit in.
<bicchi> Are there any devices already that have mobile linux besides the nokia n800. I read Intel is coming with a chip but is there already a product in mind?
<bicchi> he he, I guess i found what i was looking for: http://www.intel.com/products/mid/devices.htm 
<antics> bicchi: there are others too - the gp2x has a pretty big community
<bicchi> antics: anything that i can put ubuntu at the moment. gnome based.
<antics> bicchi: oh, probably not the 2x yet.  UME is only targetting x86 now right?
<bicchi> so are there any machines i can install ubuntu?
<antics> bicchi: i'm very new to this project but from what i read any ol'laptop will do to start
<bicchi> antics: yeah i have ubuntu on a laptop. i am looking into putting it into something more portable like the nokia n800
<antics> does the n800 have an x86 proc?  the 770 is a arm
<bicchi> arm
<antics> can UME run on Geode systems?  There's the pepperpad and a handful of other touchscreen tablets like that 
<bicchi> i do not know what UME is? :(
<inz> Ubuntu Mobile Edition
<antics> ubuntu mobile environment, sorry - saw it on the wiki
<antics> yeah edition, not env
<inz> eh, environment
<inz> whatever
<bicchi> hehe. i am new here
<antics> haha, one of the two
<inz> Ahh, neither
<inz> Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded
<antics> makes sense...
<bicchi> is ubuntu planning or releasing an arm compiled kernel?
<antics> bicchi: afaik they are only targetting x86 platforms for now
<bicchi> so does intel chips are all x86.
<antics> but it sounds like support will eventually come for other arch
<bicchi> these http://www.intel.com/products/mid/devices.htm
<bicchi> are these all based on the x86 architecture.
<antics> yeah.  specifically a new chip that intel is coming out with that is a reworked pentium-m
<bicchi> so my current  i386 kernel can run them ?
<bicchi> no need to recompile kernel and apps.
<antics> it should run on the new hardware
<bicchi> borat says: niiiice
<antics> the purpose of ume is to make the system more efficient in terms of battery power and speed
<antics> but being x86 you should be able to install stock ubuntu (or any other distro)
<bicchi> so its not going to run naemo
<antics> the other catch is most of these systems are flash based 
<antics> so installation and filesystems are a bit trickier
<bicchi> you mean flash cards/ SD cards ?
<antics> instead of a standard harddrive they use flash disks
<antics> generally soldered right to the mobo
<bicchi> UME is not going to run maemo.org, so its going to default to gnome.
<antics> that i don't know
<antics> sounds right though
<antics> i only started looking at ume seriously this week so i know very little about the project
<antics> i do work with embedded linux though so I know some of the issues they are likely facing
<antics> bbl - i have to go rework some boards
<bicchi> you been helpful, thanks.
<antics> np, glad to be useful :)
<agoliveira> bicchi: Just some food for your tought abotu devices running linux, there is a few mobile phones also. My motorola a1200, for instance.
<bspencer> agoliveira, hello
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi
<bspencer> agoliveira, what design guide are you asking about?
<bspencer> We have a UI design guide
<bspencer> I attached it to the spec describing such
<agoliveira> Yes, the same.
<bspencer> but when I marked it as "complete" it disappeared :)
<agoliveira> Ouch...
<bspencer> but I think it is still accessible, it just doesn't show up on the list
<agoliveira> have the URL?
<bspencer> looking
<agoliveira> Found
<agoliveira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UIStyleGuide
<agoliveira> Is this the one?
<agoliveira> Hmmm... the pdf is much more complete.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Can we consider the pdf final, at least for this initial phase?
<bspencer> agoliveira, sorry, went to look, got distracted
<bspencer> yes, that is the link
<bspencer> that pdf is a good "final" for our first effort I think
<bspencer> but also open to suggestions.
<agoliveira> Cool.
<agoliveira> What about the media player?
<bspencer> it is very much Bob's thinking, and hasn't had a lot of community input
<bspencer> yes, let's chat about that
<bspencer> media player uses dbus interface to talk to either gstreamer or helix media engine
<bspencer> currently we have gstreamer working and helix planned soon
<bspencer> will import into Ubuntu in next week.
<agoliveira> Ok but the idea is to use both, due to DRM, I presume?
<bspencer> [Disclaimer: it isn't too fancy right now] 
<bspencer> yeah.  I like gstreamer, simple and popular too
<agoliveira> Agree
<bspencer> but helix has been requested for DRM and to have an alternative
<agoliveira> Fine so your player will provide some sort of plugin or Helix will be used verbatin?
<agoliveira> I mean helix plug-in verbatin
<bspencer> the media player will be one package
<bspencer> the gstremaer-dbus-service will be one package
<bspencer> and helix-dbus-service another
<bspencer> then the helix engine can be unchanged (my understanding)
<bspencer> "media player" looks like Ken Wimer's picture, somewhat.  It plays video, music, and shows photos
<bspencer> ...and needs a lot of work still
<agoliveira> Got it.
<agoliveira> I don't know if you can help with that one: we need more info about the utilities programs like power management so we can plan their integration.
<agoliveira> Do you have any toughts about it?
<bspencer> let me ping the guy who knows
<agoliveira> Cool
<bspencer> he's not responding to my ping... maybe out of th eoffice.
<bspencer> brb
<agoliveira> Ok
<agoliveira> bspencer: Did you find anyone?
<bspencer> agoliveira, yeah, he's coming online hopefully
<bspencer> <crickets chirping>
* agoliveira can hear them (I live in a quiet place)
<bspencer> tshureih, agoliveira 
<bspencer> agoliveira, tariq is working on our power management stuff
<tshureih> agoliveria hello
<agoliveira>  tshureih: Hi!
<bspencer> tariq, adilson works for canonical in brazil.  
<tshureih> cool
<tshureih> nice to meet you agoliveira
<agoliveira> I believe we met already, didn't we?
<tshureih> you had some questions about Power Policy Manager?
<agoliveira> If not, nice to meet you too :)
<tshureih> I think so, in Sevilla?
<agoliveira> Yes, hold on a second pelase
<agoliveira> Yes, Sevilla
<tshureih> thanks bspencer
<agoliveira> Basically we need urgently the details/specifications for utility programs, that includes power management, so that we  can plan integration.
<tshureih> agoliveira: is the stuff up on blueprint not enough?
<agoliveira> Can you give me the URL?
<tshureih> i have a one page write up as well that describes the desgin motivation, the design, and the current code functionality
<tshureih> ok hold on
<tshureih> it's on launchpad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/PowerPolicyManagement
<tshureih> agoliveira: the current code is simpler than what the page describes of course but the design is the same
<tshureih> basically we have a series of policies which can be loaded at run time and layered on top of each other as a change occurs from one policy to another
<agoliveira> Ok but I'm refering to the application that will manage that.
<tshureih> then two plugins (which are micro policy engines) which relay messages to the actualy subsystem or device
<tshureih> oh sorry i misunderstoof
<agoliveira> Do you have it already? If not, when do you expect to deleuver it.
<agoliveira> s/deleuver it/deliver it?
<tshureih> we only have a command line tool which lists available policies and sends messages over dbus to the PPM
<tshureih> no GUI yet
<agoliveira> Any deadline?
<tshureih> for the GUI no, it's the least priority now because:
<tshureih> 1-we're thinking about enhancing Gnome Power Manager to understand policies
<tshureih> or write our own, probably python based, GUI which would still be a DBUS service
<agoliveira> Got it. Is this command line tool include on the bunch of source code that will be (I hope!) released to us very soon (TM)?
<tshureih> would the command line tool be sufficient for now? i can prioratize the GUI if needed
<tshureih> yes it's currently in our source tree
<agoliveira> Actully our problem is that we need the application is a way we can pack and release and the user will want a gui.
<tshureih> true
<agoliveira> Of course the command line helps.
<agoliveira> To be sincere, we are a bit worried because time is running short.
<tshureih> let me talk to my fellow team mates and I'll answer you back on here in say two hours if we can have a GUI by then?
<agoliveira> Whatever you can do to speed it up, would be great. As a matter of fact, there is a whole bunch of applictions and utilities that Intel is to provide and we need a clear deadline on this because we have the whole problem of package, integrate, test, etc
<tshureih> agoliveira: i totally understand, i'll get back to you in a bit
<agoliveira> I'll apreciate that.
<agoliveira> Thanks a lot.
<agoliveira> tshureih: I'll have to leave now so, could you please email me with your answers? Thanks.
<tshureih> agoliveira: sure, your email? mine is tariq.shureih@intel.com
<agoliveira> adilson@canonical.com
<agoliveira> Bye
<Mithrandir> tshureih: hiya
<Mithrandir> tshureih: just saw the conversation above; we'd much prefer if you could extend gnome-power-manager (at least the backend) so we have one great policy manager rather than two good ones.
<tshureih> Mithrandir: like i said this is one option we're seriously considering
<tshureih> it boils down to having enough hands to do it in the time frame
<Mithrandir> of course; just trying to weigh in.
<Mithrandir> also, to what extent do you anticipate needing application patches?  Getting those in early would be good.
<tshureih> Mithrandir: I will have a clearer picture by Monday evening.  right now i have all hands busy to get the code in a presentable shape ;-)
<Mithrandir> ok. :-)
<Mithrandir> are you too coming to the UK?
<tshureih> initially the GUI was the least of my worries, but I changed my mind now and I will factor it into the schedule and push things around to make a priority
<tshureih> no
<tshureih> i'm in the code crunch mode
<Mithrandir> ok
<tshureih> Rusty should be able to cover everything for me
<Mithrandir> ok, good.
<Mithrandir> the sprint is code crunch mode, though
<tshureih> i know, but i also have a pregnant wife and we just moved into a new house :)
<Mithrandir> ah, congrats. :-)
<Mithrandir> oh well, it's late now, so I'll go to bed.  Have a wedding to attend to tomorrow, and then I need to pack for London.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-07-08
<bspencer> mdz_, Mithrandir , asac   Some change of events may mean I don't attend the sprint next week.  (Although rusty is enroute already and can fill in my shoes)
<bspencer> mdz_, Mithrandir , asac   I will know Monday.  I was planning to leave early Tues and arrive Wed. afternoon.  
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-30
<Snookie> anyone there?
<persia> Snookie: Lots of people here, but all are less likely to respond without a question or statement related to the channel topic :)
<Snookie> = P
<Snookie> I had a question regarding embedded systems and linux, hoping someone could help me out....  I'm working on a kernel for my board, I'm a little confused, I have a NAND flash I'm going to use for a file system, do I need to map the physical address inside the kernel menuconfig?
<persia> Heh.  That's a lower-level question than I usually see here.  I have a couple systems that boot off NAND, but the NAND is presented as a filesystem device (PATA and usb-storage, respectively), so there's no memory mapping.
<Snookie> persia: so you're using just a usb stick that has nand flash?
<persia> Snookie: No.  In one case, it's a IDE adaptor that has some NAND on-board, and in the other, the manufacturer used the USB bus for the NAND connection.
<persia> Also, I'll admit to not knowing enough about the deep kernel to answer your question: my familiarity is mostly userspace.
<Snookie> persia: ah okay, not really the same thing, do you have to have NFTL compiled in the kernel or is this something completely different?
<persia> NFTL is the mtd device stuff?  I'm really not sure.
<Snookie> yeah, nand flash translation layer
<persia> I'd guess that you need to either have NFTL compiled-in, or available as a module in the initramfs.  That said, you'll need your bootloader to be able to get to it in either case.
<Snookie> yeah
<Snookie> = ?
<Snookie> = (
<Snookie> this stuff is like black magic, seems like people just understand it without being taught, I've read books and can't find answers 
<Snookie> but I appreciate your help
<suihkulokki> linux nand stuff is available at: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/
<suihkulokki> there is also the irc channel #mtd
<persia> Snookie: Best advice I can give you is 1) make sure you can access the NAND in your bootloader, 2) Boot off something else and fiddle with kernels & modules until you have something that allows you to partition/access the NAND, 3) Put the working solution on the NAND, and try loading from the boot loader.
<Snookie> awesome thank you persia
<Snookie> suihkulokki: I'll give it a shot, thanks
<Snookie> hi
<jerryfan> Anybody knows how UME saves system sound (Such as login sound, logout sound) setting ?? 
<jerryfan> I'd like to change login sound but can't find where it is defined. I know login sound is saved in /usr/share/sounds/login.wav. But I'd like to change the config
<persia> jerryfan: I've not specifically investigated for Ubuntu Mobile, but for Ubuntu Desktop, that name was awkward to modify last I investigated.
<persia> You may have the best luck with replacing the file, although something could have happened in the last 8 months about which I'm unaware.
<jerryfan> I think ume system sound setting might be same as desktop
<jerryfan> persia, thanks I will try that. But i'd like to change it through a config file (if it exists) ultimately.
<persia> jerryfan: If you find a way to do that, please share.  Further, if you can find a way to do it without disturbing package updates, etc. it would be even better.  There's a few groups that have a similar desire.
<jerryfan> persia, sure thing
<Nagesh> hi all
<lool> Ah missed jerrygan
<lool> *fan
<lool> persia: In the future, we might get the sound theme specs
<lool> persia: Lennart has been pushing for new FD specs copying the icon theme stuff -- for sounds
<persia> lool: That's excellent news.  I know TheMuso was chasing some hacks for hardy, and took a bit of a look, but it seemed the infrastructure wasn't quite there.  I've read some of lennart's stuff, and it seems very different than the current model: nice for us, but I wonder how long it will take the Desktops to adapt.
 * lool goes for lunch &
<pmcgowan> jerryfan, did you see my response?
<jerryfan> pmcgowan, I am reading my post and try to recall what bug is it.
<lool> jerryfan: I see you pinged me about sound card configuration over the WE, but I came too late to the computer; did you clear your questions there?
<jerryfan> lool, No. Still can't find where is system sound config is. Such as login.wav and logout.wav
<lool> jerryfan: I have no idea how login and logout is implemented in your builds; on Ubuntu it's handled by GDM and on UME we don't have them
<lool> jerryfan: Other sounds, I would have thought would be in GConf, but I don't find them
<lool> did you just see my last lines?
<jerryfan2> lool, We'd like to change login.wav and logout.wav. But we can't find where it is defined. I think there is some kind of conf files in the system for this purpose. Do u know where it is?
<jerryfan2> lool, for ur previous question, yea we did found a way to switch sound card manually
<lool> jerryfan2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23990/
<lool> jerryfan2: I'm asking seb128 (doing Ubuntu desktop) about the other sounds
<jerryfan2> lool, are u sure system notification sound is handled by GDM??
<lool> jerryfan2: I'm pretty sure for a regular Ubuntu desktop for login
<lool> jerryfan2: Not for UME of course, we don't use gdm
<lool> SoundOnLoginFile=/usr/share/sounds/question.wav
<lool> in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
<jerryfan2> lool, let me check
<lool> jerryfan2: So perhaps your flash movie sends an event to play the various sounds
<jerryfan2> lool, I think i have seen /home/ume/.gdm before
<lool> jerryfan2: I think I saw some work to bridge sound events over m-b-f recently
<jerryfan2> lool, what is m-b-f?
<lool> mobile-basic-flash
<jerryfan2> lool, there is no .gdm in /home/ume
<lool> The engine displaying the home screen
<lool> jerryfan2: As I said, UME doesn't use GDM
<lool> jerryfan2: I was just comparing regular Ubuntu versus UME
<jerryfan2> lool, but if u killall moblin-setting-daemon and then start again, u will heard login sound again
<jerryfan2> lool, so it doesn't look like login.wav is handled by m-b-f becasue on our system, we actually see flash 1st and then hear sound 20seconds later
<lool> jerryfan2: you have mbf source?
<lool> jerryfan2: It is in GConf as I thought
<lool> To enable/disable them
<lool> and list is in .gnome2
<ogra_cmpc> jerryfan, gdm has never shouldnt and will never write to homedirs, its a system service, usually running as the gdm user even
<ogra_cmpc> have a look at the edubuntu-artwork and xubunt-settings packages how to set up cusatom gdm.conf setups, we have a special hack for that in ubuntus gdm
<ogra_cmpc> (look for gdm-cdd.conf)
<jerryfan2> lool, I'll look into mbf src later. 
<jerryfan2> lool, But I checked on my Ubuntu 8.04 desktop and can't find any sound setting in gconf.
<lool> jerryfan2: The list should be in .gnome2/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist
<lool> jerryfan2: See libsounds/sound-properties.c in control-center's source
<jerryfan2> lool, is " .gnome2/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist" a dir path or gconf path?
<lool> It's a regular file
<lool> The gconf part is only to switch sounds on or off
<ogra_cmpc>  /etc/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist would be the system equivalent btw
<jerryfan2> lool, Hmmmm........I did see sound.lst on my desktop, but not on ume
<lool> ogra_cmpc: right
<javatexan> I am trying to find a toolchain and embedded linux for development on a http://www.vortex86sx.com/default.htm.  I am new to embedded linux and it looks like most of the budding distros have died out.  Could I use Ubuntu for this board, if so, where to start reading :)
<ogra_cmpc> not easy to change though ... apart from a dpkg-divert or something
<tonyespy> Sciri: what hostname do i use for sledhammer from mobilepartners?
<lool> jerryfan2: only created in your home if you diverge from the defaults
<lool> ogra_cmpc: don't divert conffiles!
<tonyespy> Sciri: sorry, wrong channel..
<ogra_cmpc> lool, oh, i didnt know it was one :)
<jerryfan2> ogra_cmpc, lool : I found /etc/sound/events/gnome-2.soundlist on ume.
<ogra_cmpc> that issue will likely come up more often, we should add a proper events.d or so 
<jerryfan2> ogra_cmpc, lool , I will try to mod soundlist in etc and see does it work. Thank you guys
<ogra_cmpc> so OEM adjustments can go there
<jerryfan2> lool, merci !
<jerryfan2> lool, Merci mille fois de nous avoir aidÃ©s
<lool> Eh you speak French!
<lool> Je me sens moins seul !
<jerryfan2> lool, Frech Canadian
<ogra_cmpc> jerryfan, if its really a conffile, note that you will get questions from update-manager if there are security fixes to libgnome2-common if you modify it
<jerryfan2> lool, just joking. Canadian.
<lool> Erf calorifÃ¨res and all
<lool> jerryfan2: You can drop a file in /home/ume/.gnome2/ etc. too
<lool> It's mostly how it was handled until now for other settings I'd say
<ogra_cmpc> we shoud get that into proper global settings in intrepid, really
<jerryfan2> lool, so if I add sound.list in /home/ume, then we will only change notification for ume and not globally right?
<ogra_cmpc> (thats noting you can use if you actually have users (i.e. on netbooks) a generic override will be better for such stuff)
<lool> jerryfan2: Correct
<ogra_cmpc> but thats surely a bunch of packages to fix ... 
<jerryfan2> lool and ogra_cmpc , then I think that would be our solution. Great.
<lool> ogra_cmpc: I would guess it's easier to have a one shot default config in /home/ume rather than fork libgnome2 just for this
<ogra_cmpc> not fork
<ogra_cmpc> add support for override configs should be a simple hack
<lool> Or patch to read another location
<lool> It's a fork in the end at this point
<ogra_cmpc> and surely something upstream would at least think about for making it esaier for OEMs and derivatives to adjust
<ogra_cmpc> imho its a bug that it uses hardcoded paths with no way to cleanly override 
<lool> It's being fixed by using a sound theme spec
<lool> Just like for icons
<jerryfan2> I think OEM would like to adopt some kind of theming idea like cell phone, to apply sounding and mbf look. 
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> xactly, so lets make it easy for them
<jerryfan2> lool, one more question. I have seen documention on hildon official page saying something about app state save. Why this feature is not implemented in UME? We are now suffering big time on thermal issue.
<lool> jerryfan2: Good question
<lool> jerryfan2: I am not quite sure what type of app state save you mean though
<lool> I don't think you mean the Androir low memory thing
<lool> *Android
<jerryfan2> lool, in Nokia N810, maemo launcher automatically check for memory usage and close unused apps on the fly after saving its state. And next time user open up the deleted app, maemo will restore it to previous state.
<lool> jerryfan2: Ok; I've read some things about state saving on memory constrained devices in Android too
<lool> And I also knew of a project which was about saving any process under Linux and try to restore it later
<jerryfan2> lool,  sounds like application suspend.
<lool> jerryfan2: This would definitely be something interesting for UME apps, but it requires important efforts to properly save/restore apps
<lool> It's not trivial for things like your IM status
<lool> We'd be happy to merge such work though
<ogra_cmpc> lool, btw, had a boring weekend again after some heavy ltsp testing so i needed some distraction ... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/MightyMailApp/
<ogra_cmpc> ;)
<jerryfan2> have u guys tried Intel c compiler? Does it really help? I tried few times but notice no improvement at all
<lool> ogra_cmpc: haha
<lool> ogra_cmpc: you're crazy :)
<ogra_cmpc> just posessed somtimes :)
<jerryfan2> it looks real cool
<ogra_cmpc> another booring sunday with libgmail and it will actually act as gmail client 
<lool> jerryfan2: It might help for some heavy maths, and I know it helps in some particular cases but I wouldn't expect a huge gain in the average case
<lool> ogra_cmpc: Nice idea
<lool> ogra_cmpc: If you're bored next weekend, come around and help me paint my walls
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, i looked at libgmail before going to bed yesterday, seems fairly trivial
 * lool did some Debian unpiling this WE
 * ogra_cmpc has a 200sqm house with rotten walls himself :)
<ogra_cmpc> and a garden that starts looking like a jungle ... ot very german :) (they use to mow their lawn with nail scissors here))
<ogra_cmpc> *not
<jerryfan2> But python app runs real bad on UME, especially the old media center 
<lool> jerryfan2: What about elisa?
<lool> Ah too late
<ogra_cmpc> oyu should really make it default in intrepid if you are so intrested in feedback ;) switching back is cheap if it doesnt work good enough
<lool> True
<GrueMaster> pmcgowan:  Tobin here.  Heard you are having problems finding the psb headers.
<javatexan> does ubuntu mid work on any i386?  How about a SOC that emulates a 486 with no Math Coprocessor?
<javatexan> Can you point me to a website to get started.  I have a Hardy box here I could use to put the toolchain, etc.
<ogra_cmpc> the default images are all built for the lpia architecture which is compiled with 686 instructions ... you will need to build an image with the -386 kernel flavour and i386 packges to support 486
<ogra_cmpc> and i doubt the performance of that will be great ...
<javatexan> lol..I hear ya
<javatexan> i got the board for free...so here we go
<ogra_cmpc> but theoretically its all possible :)
<javatexan> what do I have to add to heron to get started with this...I see bits and pieces here and there on wikis/webs/ but I don't seem to find a clear-cut process to follow...
<lool> Hmm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/InstallingUMEWhichIsFor686OnMy486 ?
<lool> :-P
<javatexan> see what I mean...LOL 
<javatexan> :P
<javatexan> the meetings pages are not very useful either... ;)
<lool> Try the released kvm image perhaps?
<pmcgowan> GrueMaster, hey, I think Calvin is figuring out why they went missing from the libdrm package
<GrueMaster> They never were part of that package, that I know of (and I build them).  They are part of the kernel module package.
<GrueMaster> libdrm requires them as well.
<lool> I think they were in libdrm until shortly before PV
<lool> BTW most drm headers are duplicated between kernel and libdrm, so it seemed quite normal to have them duplicated for psb as well
<GrueMaster> Only if they were repackaged by your team. 
<lool> GrueMaster: I mean they were in libdrm in your releases
<GrueMaster> I'll double check that.
<lool> (If you have an /usr/include/drm, I'm sure you see what I mean with the other drivers doing this already)
<GrueMaster> I see the others in the libdrm-dev, but not the psb specific headers.  I went back to 2.0.0.32L.0010.
<lool> I went back there too
<lool> I'm checking 2.0.0.3 now :)
<lool> GrueMaster: Ah hold on, these were in xf86-psb
<lool> GrueMaster: It was around 14 it seems
<lool> GrueMaster: Check https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive?field.name_filter=xserver-xorg-video-psb&field.status_filter=any
<lool> GrueMaster: Version 0.13.0ubuntu1~804um1
<lool> Bryce had to copy the headers as a patch in -psb because the headers were dropped from -psb
<lool> Later on, I suggested him to move the patch to libdrm where other similar headers were living
<GrueMaster> Well, they didn't ship that way from here.  I just checked all of my ubuntu builds from 0010 through 0019.  They are only in the psb-kmd deb packages I built, which should be what is up on arms.
<pmcgowan> GrueMaster, lool so what is the correct place for these?
<GrueMaster> I would suggest that since they come with the kernel modules, they should be part of your linux-headers-lum package.
<lool> GrueMaster: That's what I thought as well but I discussed this with amitk and it turned out other drms are in libdrm
<lool> GrueMaster: I wanted to do exactly what you proposed initially
<lool> GrueMaster: So would it be possible to copy them in libdrm like the other drm headers?
<GrueMaster> It's not up to me, but I'll check.  This whole mess needs to be cleaned up so it can go upstream anyways.
<GrueMaster> pmcgowan:  on a different note, I'm having issues with your 20080618 image booting on a ODM device.  No X, unless I load the kernel modules manually.  Any suggestions?
<pmcgowan> GrueMaster, no idea, this is the target hardware?
<GrueMaster> yes
<pmcgowan> GrueMaster, what BIOS version?
<GrueMaster> Trying it on a CB as well.
<GrueMaster> Not sure.  Let me check.
<pmcgowan> CB will need some tweaks in X
<pmcgowan> to disable TS driver I think
<GrueMaster> dmidecode shows 37AT02
<pmcgowan> sounds pretty recent, let me check
<jerryfan> 37AT02 sounds like our machine.
<pmcgowan> jerryfan, yes
<pmcgowan> GrueMaster, we are running the same bios version
<GrueMaster> ok.  
<jerryfan> we have no such problem actually. is it 100% failure rate?
<GrueMaster> yes
<GrueMaster> same on cb so far.
<jerryfan> we have seen this problem before only if image-creator is set incorrectly
<smagoun> GrueMaster: The 20080618 image will not work on a CB without disabling the touchscreen driver in xorg.conf. It should be fine on the target HW
<smagoun> GrueMaster: What version of image creator do you have?
<GrueMaster> I don't know.  Tip, I guess.  I have a cron job that pulls it daily.
<GrueMaster> but I'm not using it on your image.
<GrueMaster> I have commented out the respawn command from /etc/event.d/session.  That at least gives me a prompt.  When it boots, it dumps down to a login, and I can run startx -- -br -config xorg-cronbeach.conf and the system will come up.  
<lool> GrueMaster: So I checked where the headers were removed
<lool> GrueMaster: It was in moblin's libdrm
<lool> GrueMaster: libdrm for UME came from moblin.org's git tree for a while
<lool> GrueMaster: Where they had the same fix in place as the one we use now: shipping headers in libdrm copied from the kernel module
<lool> GrueMaster: When moblin.org's libdrm stopped doing so, we readded the patch ourselves
<lool> GrueMaster: Anyway, I think there's no doubt that other drivers are shipping the headers in libdrm, so it would be nice to get it in there upstream
<smagoun> GrueMaster: is there anything in xorg.log when x fails to come up?
<GrueMaster> actually, no.
<GrueMaster> which is odd.
<smagoun> GrueMaster: If there is no error message, it must be working. :)
<GrueMaster> none that I have seen.  Not in Xorg.o.log or dmesg.
<GrueMaster> I'll try reimaging just for grins.
<jerryfan> check ur default setting in image creator
<jerryfan> if it is boot=1024, then u are wrong
<ogra_cmpc> is there any framebuffer kernel driver that could come in your way ? the speeded up bootprocess could cause it to load exactly when x is about to start up
<jerryfan> shoud be 768 and 512
<jerryfan> andy told me that
<GrueMaster> no boot= options in grub that I see.  And I am not using image creator.
<jerryfan> there are boot swap and fat32. boot=768  swap=768 
<jerryfan> nono. i am talking about default in image-creator.
<jerryfan> u made wrong settign in default, ur build might fail during X start up
<pmcgowan> jerryfan, I think he is just installing the stock image, not making a new one
<GrueMaster> exactly.
<GrueMaster> I haven't even downloaded the project file yet.
<GrueMaster> Just the usb-install image.
<jerryfan> GrueMaster, then I have no idea then ......... :(
<jerryfan> but i can assure u that 037+0618 are good
<GrueMaster> ok.  I'll mess with it some more here.
<GrueMaster> When is the PV image for this system?
<pmcgowan> any minute now :-)
<GrueMaster> cool.  I'll keep my eyes open.
<andy_lin_> jerryfan: =.= not the same things.
<andy_lin_> GrueMaster: since you can boot in console mode.
<andy_lin_> can you use 'df' to check, is disk full ? 
<GrueMaster> will do.
<GrueMaster> ok, reimaging it seems to have fixed the issue.  Sorry for the long delay, had power supply issues as well.
<andy_lin_> GrueMaster: I know when disk full, it can't enter X forever (100%).
<GrueMaster> I'm thinking that maybe the partition reformatting didn't clear everything the first time through.  I discovered that I didn't have power from the supply until I moved it to a different outlet, and I'm thinking that may have effected the ssd erase procedure.
<GrueMaster> It's running fine now, on a different outlet and reimaged with no other changes.
<Snookie> what is the platform you guys are running on?
<Snookie> a moblin or your desktop in some virtual machine
<onaogh> hi
<onaogh> need small help
<onaogh> i made a live RW usb with Image-Creator, booted in htc-shift, it asks for login
<onaogh> tryed different logins, all doesnt work
<onaogh> hello
<GrueMaster> userid is ume.  no password
<onaogh> oh thaaaaaaaaanks
<onaogh> dude
<onaogh> thanks
<onaogh> actually the htc-shift is with my dumb boss, he doesnt let me sleep and he has something else he cant pass from now
<onaogh> he says it prompts for some command now, what that would be ?
<onaogh> can i get a page where i can read some guide for "after making" usb..
<onaogh> i'll take a shower, brb in 10 minuts
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-01
<bspencer> lool, StevenK  -- when I create a target I get:  
<bspencer> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<bspencer>   gpe-clock: Depends: libhildon-1 but it is not installable
<bspencer> .
<StevenK> Hmm. I ran into that myself. I thought I had fixed it.
<bspencer> recently?  maybe I need to update
<StevenK> bspencer: Give me a few to claw my way out of my e-mail client, and I'll dig. Maybe it fell off my plate.
<bspencer> StevenK, thx.
<StevenK> bspencer: I can't check, since Launchpad is offline.
<jerryfan> Hello, is there anyway to disable alt+tab (switch between windows) in UME?
 * persia suspects gnome-keybinding-properties, but boots to check
<persia> Err.  My image is broken :(
<jerryfan> persia, thx. will check. But is it defined in gconf or it is a conf file somewhere in the system?
<persia> jerryfan: What happens if you try to launch gnome-keybinding-properties from the Terminal?
<jerryfan> persia, yea it is in gnome-keybinding-properties. But I don't have such things in UME
<persia> jerryfan: Ah.  RIght.  I never remember how much of GNOME is left.
<jerryfan> persia, but there is moblin-keybindings in ume
<persia> Right.  moblin-keybindings also uses gconf, but I'm not finding the path in the source.
 * persia grabs a new image so as to be able to boot and track these things down properly
<persia> jerryfan: Sorry for the confusion.  moblin-keybindings manages /apps/moblin_settings_daemon/keybindings, but that doesn't include window-manager controls.  The matchbox configuration is in /etc/matchbox/kbdconfig
<jerryfan> persia, thx for clarifing. It seems like the right place now. I will try it. Thansk again
<persia> jerryfan: No problem.  Sorry my image was corrupt, and it took so long.
 * persia blames sed
<jerryfan> persia, thats ok.
<cxo> image broken?
<persia> cxo: I was fiddling with image construction and upgrade paths, and damaged my installed image: entirely a local issue (and best solved by a reinstall).
<cxo> i just realised the via-c3 is not 100% i386 compatible
<persia> No?  How does it differ?
<cxo> apparently it doesnt have "cmov" 
<persia> Well, that's a bit unfortunate.
<StevenK> cmov is an i686 instruction
<persia> Ubuntu i386 ought be x586 last I heard.
<cxo> i'm replacing one of my sound servers with a more energy efficient solution
<cxo> the old box is dual xeons 1.1ghz, with a 500watt psu
<cxo> the new box is 10watts!
<cxo> bastard preempt-rt doesnt want to build for the via chip though
<iDN> hola...
<iDN> i've just ordered na eee pc.
<iDN> an*
<mitcheloc> i'm looking to set up ubuntu mid with a 7" touch screen monitor
<mitcheloc> i was wondering what the ideal "pc/motherboard" device is for this
<mitcheloc> my specific requirement is the fastest bootup possible
<mitcheloc> would this run on a mac-mini ?
<GrueMaster> It "should" with some tweaks.
<GrueMaster> It is mainly geared for the Intel MID platforms that are coming out, but all you should really need to tweak is the Xorg.conf settings.
<ogra> depends on the age of the mini though :) you wont have much fun with a ppc mac 
<mitcheloc> ogra: true, i think i'd prefer a pc though
<mitcheloc> would it work on any x86 architecture?
<ogra> should work on anything that uses 686 instructions
<ogra> i think that excludes some via CPUs
<ogra> oh, and amd geode ...
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-02
<evilbug> hey.
<jerryfan> Hello all, is it possible to upgrade ogg decoder/encoder in gstreamer 0.10??
<ttkeppi> hi! can ubuntu be installed into htc tytn? -i'm thinking of getting one, but the win mobile operating system isn't the thing i want..
<jerryfan> ttkeppi, I don't think so it is doable.
<ttkeppi> jerryfan: ok. thanks :) -you know of any free linux os for smartphones?
<suihkulokki> ttkeppi: your best chance at the moment is to buy a openmoko
<ttkeppi> suihkulokki: no qwerty, unless with bluetooth.. looks nice tho
<jerryfan> DebbieFoghorn, do u know what's the nick name for Michael Terry?
<DebbieFoghorn> jerryfan: mterry
<mterry> jerryfan: Hi  :)
<jerryfan> mterry, Do u know is there any way to change sampling rate?
<jerryfan> mterry, hacking into src code is always my last resort
<mterry> jerryfan: Yeah, the gstreamer pipelines that the various profiles use are in /system/gstreamer/0.10/audio/profiles
<jerryfan> mterry, I saw some samling things in gconf path but can't find anything related to ogg. So not sure is gconf the right thing to look at
<mterry> jerryfan: For your purposes, you probably want cdlossy (the default)
<mterry> cdlossy is ogg
<mterry> (just because its pipeline sets it up that way
<mterry> jerryfan: So there's a pipeline setting which has a rate= setting, which is what I assume you want?
<jerryfan> mterry, yea, I found it. But beside than 44100, what else I can use? Can I use an arbitrary number? such as 25000?
<mterry> jerryfan: I don't know.  I think the 'well' known numbers are 16000/22050/32000
<jerryfan> mterry, great. It works. I used 8000 and it worked great. Thanks. Will test on JAX10 tmr to see .
<persia> jerryfan: Note that if you're down to 8000, you'll lose high-pitch sounds (everything over ~2kHz will be distorted), and we humans can hear up to ~20kHz
<persia> (hence audiophiles complaining about CDs which are only clean up to about 11kHz)
<K3rnelP4nic> damn, my screen is blinking and X server not start ;_;
<jerryfan> persia, thanks for explaining. I will try to lower from 22K and see which sampling rate is the maximum safety level.
<persia> jerryfan: Good luck.  Sound gets distorted at about 1/4 the sample rate, mostly unhearable at 1/2 the sample rate, and completely devoid of meaning at about 80% of the sample rate.  If you can attach some good speakers, you might hear more "hiss" or "chirps" for certain sounds (which can be reduced by careful construction of the sounds for the lower sample rates)
<persia> On the other hand, if you are using device speakers, it may not matter.  Most consumer earbuds get up to about 16Khz, which is why 32000 is one of the good sample points.  44100 is the rate used on CDs.
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: What device are you using?  More specifically, what type of video card does it use?
<jerryfan> persia, so I'll start from 32000. 
<smagoun> persia: by dropping the sample rate itself (which is what he is donig), there is less of a problem. FWIW the telephone system in the US uses an effective 8khz, higher rates are only really necessary for high-quality music (which the mic in question isn't good enough to pick up anyway)
<K3rnelP4nic> persia: is a preproduction device
<persia> smagoun: Right.  Depends entirely on the hardware.  If the MIC can only get ~2kHz, then 8kHz is fine.
<persia> On the other hand, if people are going to use an aftermarket mic (assuming a jack) for bootlegging concerts, they might want 22050 or 32000.
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: OK.  More information would help me help you, but in the absence of that, I'll tell you to consider tweaking /etc/event.d/session and creating an alternate xorg.conf
<K3rnelP4nic> persia: if i use the img provided by ubuntu-mobile i get all times No space left on device, and have 2x3Gb flash disc ;_;
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: Hmm.  That's confusing.  The image itself is 500MB, and ought install with user-space remaining for 2GB, let alone 6.  I'll admit to only testing it with a 60GB HD, so I can't be sure.
<persia> Anyway, even if you create your own image, it is likely that your screen is blinking because X won't start because xorg.conf is wrong, and the session event is respawning after each failure.
<K3rnelP4nic> im correcting my own image atm
<K3rnelP4nic> but, with my image install fine. I not have any problem with disk space
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: How are you constructing your image?
<K3rnelP4nic> with image-creator
<persia> Which version?
<K3rnelP4nic> mmm, i dont remember :P
<davidm> jerryfan, please have a look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080702 for info on sysfs interface. 
<suihkulokki> btw, please keep me informed if you are at some point you are having arm on your meeting agenda
<persia> suihkulokki: It's an open agenda.  If you've something specific about ARM you'd like to discuss, please add it.
<jerryfan> davidm, got u.  will look at it tmr. So tired today
<davidm> NP, just wanted to point you at it so you knew it was there.  Cheers
<davidm> persia, you still awake?
<persia> davidm: Not for much longer, but I've a couple things I want to finish before I sleep.
<davidm> persia, can you give me a quick call?  Have some news for you.
<hitsuji> Is anyone here familiar with MidBrowser and can explain why it tells me it's in offline mode when I connected to the net through a HSDPA modem?
<lool> suihkulokki: I'll try to ping you if we have questions around armel popping up in the agenda :)
<DanaG>  simple-mobile-builder --platform menlow-lpia-ume vbox hardy
<DanaG> /usr/bin/ubuntu-vm-builder: line 230: vm_getopt_args: unbound variable
<DanaG> usage: ubuntu-vm-builder <vm> <suite>              .... and goes on to give usage.
<DanaG> Another thing: where exactly does it say the difference between "menlow" and "mccalsin"?
<DanaG> aah, nevermind.. I guess I don't need to build my own.  I can just use the kvm image.  Cool.
<vircuser> register 1234 kenkc_chen@compal.com
<mterry> lool: evince looks for the lpia target to toggle hildon support.  That's not so appropriate these days since netbooks use lpia too.  Is there a more clever "am i building for a MID" check?
<smagoun> mterry: what we've done for other packages (cheese) is to strip out the 'enable hildon' bits in debian/rules
<smagoun> it is not elegant, but gets the job done
<mterry> smagoun: Yeah, I was hoping for a better check, but my fallback is the '#' key
<smagoun> eh?
<mterry> smagoun: To comment it out
<smagoun> ah, i get it. funny. :)
<davidm> mterry, add a define ENABLE_HILDON?
<mterry> davidm: If you're talking about the actual code, that's already there.  I'm looking for a smarter check in debian/rules that passes --enable-hildon only for MID
<davidm> Ah, sorry
<mterry> davidm: Thx anyway  :)
<davidm> lool, might have better ideas once he finishes dinner.
<lool> mterry: I'm glad you come to this conclusion; it's usually hard to explain why the approach of if (arch == lpia) then --enable-hildon is bad :)
<lool> mterry: Ideally, packages would have pluggable interfaces and we would build all of them in a single build, and they would select interfaces at runtime
<lool> Or we would ship various interfaces in various packages
<lool> This is not the case and not always easy to do though, so what I think we should so when the software can be configured at build time for one or the other is build twice
<lool> I think evince already has two flavors for instance, so we'd need to add a new one
<mterry> lool: Yeah, evince and evince-gtk, but I wasn't clear on the difference
<lool> mterry: Sadly, doing multiple builds in packaging rules is not terribly nice
<lool> mterry: evince-gtk is for e.g. xfce; it avoid gnome* libs
<mterry> lool: Ah.
<lool> mterry: This is less true nowadays, but it's still desirable to avoid gnome deps for some use cases
<mterry> lool: Yeah, gnome's doing an end-run around them by just pushing the code to gtk+  :)
<lool> The difference is quite minimal in fact
<lool> mterry: Exactly
<lool> mterry: Perhaps inspired by qt ... 3 :)
<lool> mterry: Anyway, evince/GNOME versus evince/Gtk+ isn't really the discussion; it's more evince/G* versus evince/Hildon :)
<lool> mterry: The cheese / elisa approach can work in all cases for hildon (not for all UIs), but it's not very elegant either
<mterry> lool: Right.  Presumably that would be easy to do since it already splits once for -gtk
<lool> Yup
<mterry> lool: OK, I'll put it on my when-I-have-spare-cycles list
<lool> mterry: Sure; there is some trickery for multi builds in cdbs, but it quickly becomes ... ugly
<lool> We need new tools IMO :)
<lool> But this could be solved upstream too
 * lool disappears again to write some letters
<evilbug> where can i download MID from?
<evilbug> i don't see a download link on the website...
<DanaG> Hmm, I converted the image, but X won't start on it (and it won't give up on starting X).
<DanaG> And I don't know the root password or the user password.
<DanaG> And it's kind of hard to log in when it keeps going:
<DanaG> ï»¿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ï»¿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ï»¿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ï»¿start X.  Nope, won't start.  ï»¿start X.  Nope, won't start.  
<DanaG> (It's not giving up, even after 50 tries.)
<DanaG> aah, found it: "ubuntu"
<DanaG> Great, no 'piix' module == I can't use VM additions.
<DanaG> Oh, I can just get them another way.
<DanaG> Argh, I can't build the vbox modules.
<DanaG> Kernel headers don't match the running kernel.
<DanaG> I'm going to try lpiacompat.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-03
<DanaG> Odd: I only see two songs in my music player app.
<DanaG> I assume /home/ume/media/sounds is where it goes?
<DanaG> I made that a symlink to my host OS's music.
<persia> DanaG: Do you have subdirectories in your host directory?  If so, are the two songs shown in the root directory?
<persia> From testing on my install, it seems that /home/ume/media/sounds is not checked for directories
<DanaG> Yeah.  But there are actually 4 files in the top-level dir.
<DanaG> Correction: 3 files.
<DanaG> 2 mp3 and one mod.  I guess that's why, for that dir.
<persia> Very odd.  I showed about 20 when I dropped them in the top-level locally.  Is one of them a different codec, or not tagged cleanly?
<persia> Ah, yes.  It's the .mod that doesn't show?
<DanaG> Yeah, that makes sense.
<DanaG> ï»¿I have them in dirs, and that's how I organize things.  In fact, that's why I have an iAudio6, instead of countless alternatives.
<DanaG> Oddly enough, the video player shows nothing, despite having several videos at the top level.
<persia> That makes sense: especially for devices with >10GB, organisation makes sense.  Could you file a bug about that?
<persia> At the top level of media/videos ?
<DanaG> Right now I'm in a power outage (on a laptop, and cable modem and router on a UPS), so now's not a great time -- but where should I go file it?
<DanaG> Yeah, I have several files there/  Let me check the codecs.
<DanaG> Note: would having the thing it's symlinked to be RO mounted cause that breakage?
<persia> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moblin-media/ should show you the current list.  If it's not there, there's a link to file a bug.
<DanaG> does that one package apply to both the audio and video players?
<persia> I don't think blocking RO mounts makes sense.  Imagine the case where someone has a USB optical drive, and wants to play videos from there.
 * persia double-checks
<DanaG> One video is MPEG-1 video, MP1-layer2 audio (yep, obscure.  It's an old video.)
<persia> DanaG: Music, Videos, and Photos.
<DanaG> Another is XVID MPEG-4 video, MP3 audio.  The last is DivX5 video, MP3 audio.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, and to build the virtualbox additions, I had to install lpiacompat stuff, since lpia stuff gave "disagrees on version of symbol" (don't remember the symbol name).
<DanaG> Odd... wallpapers don't give scaling settings.
<DanaG> And my VM seems to use the wrong resolution; what resolution is supposed to be default?
<persia> DanaG: Most testing was done at 1024x600, and a fair amount at 800x480.  I don't think everything works for 800x480.
<DanaG> Why do so many things use 1024x600?  That's an odd aspect ratio.  1024x640 is 16:10.
<persia> DanaG: I suspect it's because the glass was cheap.
<DanaG> Oh, and how do you use a bluetooth headset with the thing?
<DanaG> (I've handed the VM my USB BT adapter)
<persia> Personally, I'd rather have 1024x768, but maybe that's just me.
<persia> Does the bluetooth icon show in the taskbar?
<DanaG> Yup.  And I've even paired the headset.
<DanaG> oddly enough, it shows up twice.  It offers both Headset and Handsfree profiles.
<persia> That means you've got speakers & a mic.
<DanaG> It doesn't show up in 'asoundconf list' or 'aplay -l' or 'aplay -L'
<persia> I'm not sure.  I've never gotten bluetooth audio to work (although I haven't tried very hard with Ubuntu Mobile).
<persia> I seem to remember there being some alsa module that needed loading, but I'm not sure if that is still true.
<DanaG> You can supposedly do it with .asoundrc nowadays.
<DanaG> However, oddly enough, I can't even RUN the "audio service" on the Intrepid ost.
<ogra> oh, aldi has netbooks today here :)
<ravocx> and where is here ?
<ogra> germany 
<ravocx> ah
<ravocx> i was hoping the netherlands :P
<ogra> aldi north ... (our aldi is split into two companies)
<philn> hi
<philn> i'm running mccaslin-lpia-hardy on a Q1... would like to calibrate the screen, anyone knows how to do that?
<persia> philn: There ought be a calibration tool in the Preferences menu.
<philn> where's that menu? i'm probably missing a package or fset
<persia> philn: At the top of the screen, to the right of the home button, there ought be the word "All" and an arrow.
<persia> Selecting "All" allows you to choose "Preferences", which shows some icons that are not included in "All", one of which should be the screen calibration tool.
 * ogra thinks "all" should be renamed to "applications" or something if it doesnt really include "all" :)
<ogra> lowers the confusion level :)
<philn> i only see "all".. nothing related to preferences, either in that drop-down menu or in the launchers list
<lool> philn: Which image is this?  one from ubuntu or self built?
<philn> i used an image created with image creator
<philn> self built
<lool> philn: Do you have particular changes you care about in this image?
<lool> philn: We use the Q1Full fset when building MIC images
<lool> "crownbeach-full-mobile-stack"
<philn> yes i care a bit ;) i compiled deps for elisa on it
<lool> philn: Here's my tip: use a ppa, or pbuilder, or build packages natively instead
<philn> well it's for some kind of demo, i'll do it better next time.. for now i just want to calibrate the touchscreen
<lool> philn: Sure, I just wanted to save you the huge timesink that building images is
<philn> and elisa 0.5 is not (ready to be) packaged yet anyway..
<lool> philn: Did you install the ubuntu-mobile meta-package?
<philn> yes
<lool> You have moblin-applets?
<philn> yes
<philn> in fact i could launch the calibration tool from terminal
<philn> but doesn't seem to work, i can't tap the damn blinking target ;)
<lool> philn: image-creator --platform-name=menlow-lpia-ume --fset crownbeach-full-mobile-stack -c list-pkgs
<StevenK> It's not menlow
<lool> philn: Will tell you which packages get pulled for this fset
<philn> i'm on mccaslin
<lool> You get the idea, replace platform and fset with what you care about
<lool> philn: moblin-touchscreen from terminal should do the calibration I would think
<lool> it's in moblin-applets
<lool> asac: Hey did you see my last message to bspencer and rustyl where I was saying you might send an up-to-date patch?
<asac> lool: nope
<lool> around Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:43:48 +0200
<asac> oh
<lool>  Alexander: could you push your git tree to the mbf hardy branch or to a
<lool>  new branch rebased on top of master?  Or anything which allows Bob to
<lool>  review the final changes or xulrunner 1.0 support.
<lool> sorry, was in the middle of the msg
<asac> lool: not sure if i have the final changes ;) ... i have my changes ... we need to sync them
<asac> will get back to you later today on this. stay tuned
<lool> asac: Cool
<lool> asac: Can I grab you two secs on other xulrunner stuff?
<asac> lool: just ask ;)
<lool> asac: evolution-rss can be built against --gecko=libxul or libxul-embedding; how to pick the correct one?
<lool> asac: And the second thing is I'm stuck porting galeon to xulrunner 1.9; I've given up on it and I've asked glandium and upstream to look at my in progress patches if they'd like to complete the port, but I didn't understand how to finish it
<asac> lool: what is evolution-rss? a standalone application?
<lool> So I'm pinging you as well in case you have some secret dependance on xul 1.9 porting; I wouldn't be surprized porting apps to xul 1.9 is the drug which keeps you awake
<asac> ha
<asac> ;)
<lool> asac: It's a plugin for evolution, so I would think it should try to reuse evolution's xul if possible
<asac> lool: does evo load xul at all?
<asac> otherwise use the -embedding thing
 * ogra thought evo still used gtkhtml 
<lool> philn: Ah sorry it doesn't work; I saw it broken from time to time too; perhaps file a bug against moblin-applets (upstream project) or against ubuntu-mobile (upstream project)?
<asac> lool: how did galeon fail? missing symbols?
<lool> asac: Hmm indeed not sure evo uses xul at all
<lool> asac: So libxul-embedding if there's no other xul to reuse and libxul if there's one, correct?
<lool> asac: Yeah, ultimately missing symbols
<lool> But to reach this point I did things which I'm not fully understanding
<lool> All my notes are in the xulrunner 1.9 port bug reports in the Debian BTS
<lool> asac: Oh heck, I'm not sure you want to spend time on galeon
<ogra> evo: gtkhtml3.14
<lool> Everybody says it's completely useless once ported anyway
<lool> ogra: yes exactly
<ogra> (from the deps)
<lool> So no xul so should use -embedding
<asac_> lool: i am sorry. my connection is really bad today
<asac_> lool: whats the bug id?
<asac_> just want to take a quick look
<asac_> but i think galeon is definitly one of the more interesting pieces of software to port
<lool> asac_: I was saying don't spend time on galeon; it's going to be useless even once ported
<lool> asac_: Many critical features don't work at all with xul 1.9 and need to be rewritten  :-/
<lool> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=480799
<ubottu> Debian bug 480799 in galeon "Don't build depend on libxul-dev" [Wishlist,Open] 
<lool> asac_: There are some inprogress patches, but the bulk of the acceptable patches are in svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-galeon/unstable/galeon already
<asac_> lool:  if test "x$has_gtkmozembed" = "xno"; then
<asac_> is that block to be ment 1.8 or 1.9?
<asac_> (in your configure.in patch)
<lool> asac_: There's a later check I thikn
 * lool checking out from his hardy box
<asac_> lool: the svn configure patch looks ok without looking at the target source
<asac_> there is no glue startup code, but i guess thats already in upstream orig?
<lool> asac_: It should be
<lool> asac_: Upstream 2.0.5 *claims* to support xulrunner 1.9
<asac_> lool: so how does it fail?
<lool> But in practice it didn't build due to API changes
<asac_> at least the NSPR switch is not turned on
<lool> asac_: Well many things really
<philn> lool: ok, i'll try a more recent image.. is it ok to try one your pre-built images?
<lool> philn: definitely
<lool> philn: I mean it can't hurt
<asac_> lool: if you give me the orig for the latest svn i can run it in the background and see how bad if fails ;)
<philn> lool: there? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/hardy/
<lool> asac_: Well I've sent a combined patch of all ugly things I did, but I think it's highly incorrect
<lool> philn: Yes
<lool> asac_: Mike said I should drop the rpath setting
<lool> asac_: Do you think I should drop it unconditionally for xulrunner 1.0?
<lool> 1.9
<lool> asac_: BTW I checked the fedora patches and these are a subset of mine; it seems they have an easier time building against xulrunner 1.9   :-(
<asac_> lool: if we only support "-embedding", then yes. otherwise you need to drop if if we use libxul-embedding*
<asac_> otherwise not
<asac_> (for instance epiphany should work with libxul + rpath OR libxul-embedding
<asac_> but embedding is definitly preferred
<lool> I think we only need to support embedding as galeon typically bootstraps the xul
<lool> asac_: Why does epiphany need to run with libxul?
<asac_> lool: fedora did only care about getting things to compile
<lool> Yeah
<asac> lool: it doesnt need to. chpe just refused to believe the -embedding is the right way so i coded both options to make him happy
<lool> asac_: Concerning that gtkmozembed conditional in configure.in, I thought it wasn't too important to touch as -lxul is probably added by the pkg-config flags earlier anyway and wasn't too useful
<lool> asac: arf ok :)
<asac> lool: -lxul must not be used in standalone glue either
<asac> the only lib you link against is -lxpcomglue
<asac> and maybe nspr if your need it
<asac> so the output of pkg-config --libs libxul-embedding
<lool> asac: What's hard in galeon is that they are compatible with last 10 years of xulruners
<asac> lool: same is true for epiphany
<lool> The configure and code are ifdefed all over the place, it's not only supporting the latest xul but everything
<lool> asac: Indeed
<asac> but nobody actually knows if the code still works
<asac> they keep the configure stuff and make their own life harder
<lool> asac: Except epiphany moved to some sensible m4 macros which do the work behind the scene; in galeon the configure.in script feels like a mess now
<lool> Right epiphany still looks litlle complex
<asac> lool: yeah ;) unfortunately all this appears to come from the same source. so other build systems have it too
<asac> some follow the .m4 approach of epiphany
<asac> others copy the in-configure code from whoknowswhere
<lool> So should I set MOZILLA_GTKMOZEMBED=$gecko just like _XPCOM?
<lool> And hence make the test succeed and hence don't append -lxul to the link flags?
<asac> lool: the idea is to use the PKG_CHECK_MODULES result for libxul-embedding(-unstable) for every CFLAGS and LDFLAGS
<lool> What I hate with the current approach is that it becomes unknown what serves which xulrunner versions
<lool> I wouldn't mind having 10 macros one for each version, but having a huge snippet handling all cases is a mess  :-/
<asac> lool: yeah. assume that all the manual LDFLAGS + CFLAGS things are ment for mozilla <=1.7
<asac> maybe even << 1.7
<lool> wow, that's old
<asac> aka 1.4
<lool> asac: What about rpath?  should I drop it?
<asac> lool: i think i inserted a configure test to check if -DXPCOM_GLUE is defined by CFLAGS
<asac> if you want to do it right, check for that and if that is defined, drop rpath
<lool> asac: Ok; one build issue I had needed me to set some XPCOM_GLUE_US_NSPR define manually to build
<lool> asac: i didn't quite understand how it was supposed to be set
<asac> lool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24672/
<lool> Excellent
<asac> lool: need to set CFLAGS to the CFLAGS with the xul flags of course
<asac> but i guess you know how COMPILE macros are used ;)
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<asac> thats more complete
<asac> you need a LANG_POP at the end i guess
<lool> asac: ELINK
<asac> err sorry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24675/
<lool> asac: Should I bother setting mozilla_home?
<asac> _GECKO_CFLAGS=`pkg-config --cflags $MOZILLA_XPCOM`
<asac> lool: you need MOZILLA_HOME for non-standalone glue cases
<asac> lool: in epiphany i added a --with-gecko-home=... flag
<lool> Yeah, that's what I copied last week
<asac> as you cannot get the MOZILLA_HOME anymore
<lool> Exactly, didn't find it in .pc files
<asac> so basically ... if GECKO >= 1.9 => --with-gecko-home is required for "normal" libxul
<asac> for 1.8 you can still use the old auto-guess heuristic
<asac> lool: but i wouldnt put too much work into the "libxul" part .... really
<asac> even glandium agrees that standalone glue is the idea ;)
<asac> lool: i'd say: if XPCOM_GLUE => drop -rpath and unset MOZILLA_HOME
<asac> otherwise try the auto guess ... if that fails => bad luck
<lool> asac: What should I use for CFLAGS in the general case for the -DXPCOM_GLUE?  Should I only run this test if libxul-embedding?
<asac> lool: I'd suggest to just test for XPCOM_GLUE .... and drop -rpath + MOZILLA_HOME if its set
<asac> and dont bother about any corner cases
<asac> even 1.8 had a standalone glue iirc
<asac> but nobody used it ;)
<lool> asac: So which flags should I use for the xpcom glue test?  special flags for this test, the "xpcom" ones, the "embedded" ones?
<asac> lool: so you always use your GECKO_CFLAGS
<asac> lool: use the MOZILLA_XPCOM ones
<lool> There's no such thing in galeon currently
<asac> (i guess for 1.9 they are the same)
<lool> Ok, will use _xpcom
<asac> in epiphany i defined a conditional for HAVE_XPCOM_GLUE so i could remove the -rpath thing from Makefile.am
<asac> if galeon adds the -rpath in configure you probably dont need it ... but i dont know
<lool> Ok, I planned doing an AM_CONDITIONAL as well
 * asac tries to remember what he wanted to do ;)
<ogra> work on mobile stuff indeed :)
<asac> haha
<asac> ogra: i felt quite mobile yesterday when i experienced a great 3g connection throughout my whole RegionalBahn Trip ;)
<asac> note: my cell-phone usually has no connection throughout most parts of the same trip ;)
<ogra> regional ? 
<ogra> wow
<asac> yeah ... not even ICE
<ogra> my ICEs all have wlan now
<ogra> thats the advantage of living in the middle of the country :)
<asac> ogra: NM connects much quicker to 3g ;)
<asac> like in 1 second i get connection + IP
<ogra> cool
<asac> now I know what marcel ment with "dhclient is real crap" :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, its good on servers (if you even use dhcp at all there)
<asac> ogra: the lease feature is nice
<asac> the point is that there apear to be a bunch of sleeps that slow down things by seconds (iiu him correctly)
<lool> asac: What's that -dlopen self thing?
<asac> lool: where?
<lool> galeon_LDFLAGS = -R$(MOZILLA_HOME) -dlopen self
<asac> never seen that before
<asac> i guess this can be dropped
<asac> together with the -R
<lool> asac: BTW what do you plan to do with the xulrunner-dev xulrunner-1.9-dev pacakge name mismatch?
<asac> lool: I will swallow that and provide a compatibility package
<asac> lool: its unreasonable imo 
<asac> and smells like intention
<lool> :-/
<lool> checking whether we have a xpcom glue... yes
<lool> Using libxul-embedding-unstable version 1.9
<asac> let me commit that now
<asac> yay
<asac> looks good 
<lool> In file included from MozRegisterComponents.cpp:30:
<lool> ProgressListener.h:75: warning: 'GProgressListener' declared with greater visibility than the type of its field 'GProgressListener::<anonymous>'
<asac> anyone has lost his caret on gnome-terminal recently?
<lool> That's the one where it looks like nspr isn't properly used
<asac> mine is gnome here now ;)
<asac> just black
<asac> lool: does galeon still use MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/galeon_2.0.5-1_amd64.build
<asac> maybe grep for that
<lool> it does
<lool> galeon-2.0.5/configure.in:              [[#define MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API
<asac> yeah thats what has to go
<lool> galeon-2.0.5/mozilla/GaleonJS.cpp:#define MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API
<lool> galeon-2.0.5/mozilla/GaleonJS.cpp:#undef MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API
<asac> to use standalone glue
<asac> lool: drop that define ... and fix the build errors :-D
<asac> well ... at least you can send the better configure upstream ... they should switch to frozen linkage
<philn> ok, now the applet works, but only the 2 first targets works. i click on third and the applet thinks calibration is finished, asks me to save settings or not
<asac> lool: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Migrating_from_Internal_Linkage_to_Frozen_Linkage
<asac> the idea of frozen linkage is that you can use that, ship binaries to the world and they will always work in future ;)
<lool> I don't quite understand how internal_api is set/not set
<lool> I mean in galeon
<asac> lool: if you define MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API you get symbols that are hidden in libxul
<lool> There are many checks with mozilla_internal_api
<asac> lool: so you just drop that define
<lool> I mean, I'm trying to locate it
<lool> It's not set in configure, configure only checks whether it needs to use that flag to get some API
<lool> And it decides it doesn't I think
<asac> lool: galeon-2.0.5/mozilla/GaleonJS.cpp
<asac> explicitly defines it?
<lool> in #ifdef HAVE_NSISCRIPTCONTEXT_INTERNAL_API
<asac> ok and that is false?
<lool> Define if nsIScriptContext is MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API */
<lool> #undef HAVE_NSISCRIPTCONTEXT_INTERNAL_API */
<lool> in config.h
<asac> are you trying galeon 2.0?
<lool> 2.0.5
<lool> mozilla/MozillaPrivate.cpp also uses #ifdef HAVE_NSSTRING_INTERNAL
<lool> which is undef
<asac> but you see the define during compile?
<lool> ah
<lool> mozilla/GaleonAboutModule.cpp does it unconditionally
 * asac looking
<asac> ok its the same mess we had in epiphany
<asac> nsString.h => nsStringAPI.h
<asac> s/.*nsEscape.h.*/
<lool> it's undefined
<asac> what is undefined?
<lool> MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API
<asac> in AboutModule?
<asac> for me its defined there
<lool> asac: No in MozRegisterComponents.cpp
<lool> where my build fails
<asac> oh ok
<lool> mozilla/GaleonAboutModule.cpp uses nsstring.h and #defines MOZILLA_INTERNAL_API but Im' not that far
<lool> I don't see any nsescape there either
<lool> There's one in mozilla/GaleonAboutModule.cpp
<asac> lool: i think the only field of ProgressListener that might have hidden type is GulCString
<lool> asac: BTW ATM I'm just running svn-buildpackage from the pkg-galeon tree
<asac> lool: without the improved configure?
<lool> asac: I committed the improved configure now
<asac> lool: how do i run svn-buildpackage?
<lool> asac: You run svn-buildpackage :)
<lool> seriously, from the galeon dir
<lool> you need to create ../tarballs
<lool> and drop the upstream tarball in there with the .orig name
<asac> k
<lool> (or a symlink with that name)
<lool> Or you forget about sbp and just copy the debian/ in an unpacked tarball :
<lool> :)
<asac> lool: i dont have the orig ;)
<lool> galeon.sf.net
<lool> http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=6999&use_mirror=kent&filename=galeon-2.0.5.tar.gz&22444074
<asac> it builts ;)
<asac> err, started
<lool> Cool
<lool> I would have switched to quilt would I have known I would have to pile to many patches
<asac> hehe
<lool> When I read 2.0.5 was supporting xulrunner 1.9 I thought it was a one or two hour job to perhaps adjust things for Debian/Ubuntu
<lool> How wrong I was
<lool> I spent most of a sunday on it and a couple of evenings since
<asac> well ... not sure why they wrote it. i looked at the sources at some point when they claimed xulrunner 1.9 and didnt understood ;)
<lool> Even fedora people had to patch, but not so much as we're doing it now
<asac> lool:                 rv = NS_NewGenericFactory(getter_AddRefs(componentFactory),
<asac>                                           &(sAppComps[i]));
<asac> lool: does it work on fedora?
<lool> Ah I think they patched that
<asac> thats non-frozen linkage
<lool> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/galeon/F-9/
<lool> galeon-2.0.5-build-fix.patch  and galeon-2.0.5-xulrunner.patch 
<lool> -	presShell->GetDocument(getter_AddRefs(doc));
<lool> +	doc = presShell->GetDocument();
<lool> It's not the same, sorry
<asac> lool: let me look for the right pattern ;) 
<lool> 05:23 < philipl> hgb: Ah. flashblock doesn't work, but adblock does.
<lool> 05:24 < philipl> extensions that need xul don't work.
<lool> that's from #galeon
<asac> lool: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=100976
<asac> search for "genericfactory"
<asac> thats the inittial epiphany patch which still had that frozen linkage migration
<asac> i have the feeling that after fixing this galeon will fly ;)
<asac> hehe
<asac> let me know when you have committed that to svn so i can test :)
<lool> asac: Is that backwards compatible or do I need to enclose it in a fake test and tell upstream to add a test for it?  ;)
<asac> lool: its backwards compatible
<asac> the NS_New thing is just a short hand which is not available in frozen linkage
<asac> lool: even if its not, upstream should polish this imo. we are working for 1.9 here only (same in debian)
<asac> but i think thats good to have everywhere
<asac> lool: some minor bad news. they dont have the xpcom glue startup code yet. that has to go to mozilla/mozilla-embed-shell.cpp
<asac> the snippet is in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=102329 in the embed/mozilla/mozilla-embed-single.cpp patch
<lool> asac: committed
<lool> the generic factory part
<asac> yeah
<asac> lool: does it build already?
<lool> I just kicked a build
<asac> kk
<lool> asac: Right that xul startup code I grepped for (remembered from mbf port), but didn't findin galeon
<lool> It fails at:
<lool> JSConsoleListener.cpp: In member function 'virtual nsresult JSConsoleListener::Observe(nsIConsoleMessage*)':
<lool> JSConsoleListener.cpp:53: error: 'class nsIConsoleMessage' has no member named 'GetMessage'
<lool> I think Fedora fixed that one though
<lool> asac: debian/patches/66_non-threadsafe-gconsolemessage-isupports.patch what doyou think of the change?
<lool> I copied it from the comments in the generated templates, but dropping the threadsafe part is scary
<lool> -NS_IMPL_THREADSAFE_ISUPPORTS1(GConsoleMessage, nsIConsoleMessage)
<lool> -
<lool> +NS_IMPL_ISUPPORTS1(GConsoleMessage, nsIConsoleMessage)
<asac> lool: GetMessage is now GetMessageMoz
<lool> Yeah
<asac> ok
<lool> I just changed that, testing new patch
<asac> lool: dont drop the THREADSAFE thing
 * lool thanks his amd64 and ccache
<asac> if we use XPCOM_GLUE_WITH_NSPR
<lool> It's 3 times slower on i386
<asac> (threadsafe requires nspr)
<asac> lool: maybe fedora doesnt enable GLUE with NSPR?
<lool> GaleonWrapper.cpp:1648: error: 'nsresult GConsoleMessage::GetMessageMoz(PRUnichar**)' cannot be overloaded
<asac> do we do that?
<lool> GaleonWrapper.cpp:1646: error: with 'virtual nsresult GConsoleMessage::GetMessageMoz(PRUnichar**)'
<asac> lool: what did you change?
<lool> So this looks like type mismatch -- and I don't understand how they could possibly get this to build
<lool> asac: I just renamed GetMessage to GetMessageMoz
<asac>         aMessage->GetMessage (&message); ?
<asac> thats the line that fails for me here
<asac> which should be aMessage->GetMessageMoz
<lool> added patch in SVN
<asac> works ;)
<lool> asac: Uh sorry
<lool> asac: I suck
<asac> i just changed that line like above
<philn> i don't have hw acceleration anymore :(
<asac> now build ha sfinished ;)
<asac> (well, the mozilla/ tree)
<lool> philn: Ah you need the proprietary 3D driver for this
<lool> philn: Uh no, not on Q1 sorry
<asac> lool: ok. with that change we only need to add the proper standalone startup code
<lool> asac: Well i also renamed the implementation
<lool> -    NS_IMETHODIMP GetMessage(PRUnichar **result)
<lool> +    NS_IMETHODIMP GetMessageMoz(PRUnichar **result)
<asac> hehe
<asac> thats wrong ;)
<philn> DRI seems to be loaded fine, dixit my Xorg.log.. but glxinfo tells me otherwise
<lool> which causes the new failure
<lool> asac: Fedora did this :)
<asac> hmm
<lool> Anyway, I did like you suggested in my tentative patches this week, but got another issue later on I think
<lool> In the end I was just flipping between the two during build; how ufly
<lool> *ugly
<philn> oh there are some updates to install, let's try that
<lool> philn: Oh yes you definitely need to use all libdrm and xorg and driver updates
<lool> philn: you want the -19 kernel
<lool> asac: Cool it goes up to link now!
<lool> asac: You did as well in a couple of hours as me in 3 days :)
<philn> lool: ok, thx!
<asac> lool: ok. now add the proper glue code and go ;)
<asac> search for the first poing of startup ... e.g. usually looking for push_startup is a god start
<lool> mozilla/mozilla-embed-shell.cpp looks like it
<lool> Hmm it's all exploded in sub functions
<asac> lool: i think shell_init
<asac> is the place
<lool> mozilla_init_profile() also need to be changed I think
<asac> you need to remove all current startup code with #ifdef XPCOM_GLUE
<asac> and replace that with the snippet
<asac> lool: the mozilla_init_profile can probably stay
<asac> (after the glue startup)
<asac> but plugin_path is not required iirc
<lool> mozilla_init_plugin_path should happen after push startup, but can it be kept?
<asac> lool: if it works, it works
<asac> cant tell
<asac> at least the global plugins are definitly loaded by the xulrunner
<lool> asac: Can I drop the non-xpcom glue case?
<lool> and the whole define?
<asac> lool: I'd say you should #else it
<lool> hmm no, not for << 1.8
<lool> I can probably the gecko 1.9 part in the else
<lool> That I don't care about
<asac> lool: even for 1.8 we need it as debian/ubuntu doesnt ship any glue in their 1.8 packages
<lool> but for non-glue 1.9, I don't care, right?
<asac> yes
<asac> but the code should still work if you support libxul with -rpath and so on in configure (which you didnt do afaict)
<lool> i'll consider non-glue means < 1.9
<asac> yeah ... go for that for now
<lool>         gtk_moz_embed_set_comp_path (mozilla_home);
<lool> #ifdef HAVE_GTK_MOZ_EMBED_SET_PATH
<lool>         gtk_moz_embed_set_path (mozilla_home);
<lool> #endif
<lool> Is what init_home does
<lool> and you do one or the other based on xpcom glue
<lool> should I keep galeon's way or yours?
<lool> (so it would call both in our case)
 * lool tries a combo
<asac> lool: the set_path and set_comp_path wont work if mozilla_home is wrong
<lool> asac: I dropped yours and kept galeon's
<asac> mozilla_home is the GREPath you get from the standalone snipped
<lool> Which happen in -------mozilla_init_home
<asac> for 1.9
<lool> I moved the push startup after init profile like it was
<asac> GALEON_MOZILLA_HOME is not set for us
<lool> oh
<lool> indeed
<asac> you need to use the path you get from the gre startup snippet
<asac> e.g. rv = GRE_GetGREPathWithProperties(&greVersion, 1, nsnull, 0, xpcomLocation, 4096);
<asac> +    if (NS_FAILED(rv)) {
<lool> Ok; I'll keep yours and call mozilla_init_home() in the else
<asac> xpcomLocation
<asac> yeah
<lool> GALEON_MOZILLA_HOME is also used in mozilla_init_plugin_path
<asac> lool: is GALEON_MOZILLA_HOME set in Makefile?
<asac> if so, you can just comment those snippets by
<asac> #ifdef GALEON_MOZILLA_HOME
<lool> asac: It's set in makefile unconditionally
<asac> and take care that its not passed if we HAVE_XPCOM_GLUE
<asac> lool: yeah. then you need the AM_CONDITIONAL HAVE_XPCOM_GLUE i guess
<asac> or if you have a AC_DEFINE for that you can use that of course
<philn> lool: using -19 kernel and available updates, still doesn't work :/
<asac> but makes more sense to test for HOME imo
<asac> in code
<lool> philn: works for me; glxinfo shows plenty of stuff
<lool> but I don't have dri hmm
<lool> philn: I get slow 3D rendering too
<lool> asac: Trying a build with that now
<philn> lool: i don't have direct rendering either
 * asac crosses fingers
<lool> ah my trick didn't work need to rewrite the makefile.am part
 * lool rekicks build
<lool> I should make -j2 during these sessions, I always forget to do it
<lool> mozilla-embed-shell.cpp:390: error: return-statement with a value, in function returning 'void'
<lool> I shouldn't have copy-paster blindly
<lool> asac: ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(GaleonWrapper.o): In function `nsTime':
<lool> /usr/include/xulrunner-1.9/unstable/nsTime.h:68: undefined reference to `PR_ParseTimeString'
<lool> and some others
<lool> asac: build log at same location
<lool> Not many really
<lool> asac: ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(GaleonWrapper.o):(.data.rel.ro._ZTV15GConsoleMessage[vtable for GConsoleMessage]+0x28): undefined reference to `GConsoleMessage::GetMessageMoz(unsigned short**)'
<lool> asac: That's the one where I told you I need to rename implementation as well :-(
<asac> lool: ok so return statement is fixed?
<asac> just nsTime thing?
<asac> yeah
<lool> Yes I cheated and just return instead of dealing properly with the error
<asac> ok
<asac> thats a good trick ;)
<lool> see end of http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/galeon_2.0.5-1_amd64.build
<asac> lool: you could also exit (1) :)
<asac> byebye
<lool> haha
<lool> anyway this is much better to anything I ever gotten, especially considering the fact that it's not cheer luck but you actually know what you're doing :)
<lool> While I didn't :)
<asac> lool: PR_Now should work
<asac> lool: what you are missing is LDFLAGS for pkg-config --libs nspr
<asac> which makes sense as you use XPCOM_GLUE_USE_NSPR
<lool> I do?
<philn> lool: fix proposed at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samsung-q1-ultra-config/+bug/207360 works for me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207360 in samsung-q1-ultra-config "DRI not configured correctly on Q1" [Undecided,New] 
<asac> lool: i think so ... otherwise THREADSAFE macros would fail
<lool> I didn't set XPCOM_GLUE_USE_NSPR in today's build; I tried doing it this week though
<lool> I removed the threadsafe macros
<asac> hmm
<asac> lool: we need that macro for sure
<asac> _and_ threadsafe macros
<lool> philn: Cool; can you poke the bug?
<asac> the threadsafe thing is  a bug in xul which will not be fixed before 2.0
<philn> sure
<lool> asac: So should I revert the threadsafe macro removals I did?
<lool> 66_non-threadsafe-gconsolemessage-isupports.patch and 67_nsimpl-support-gtknssclientauthdialogs.patch I think
<lool> asac: ^
<asac> lool: yes + link against nspr and use that macro
<lool> asac: In which cases should I link to nspr?
<asac> err that define (XPCOM_GLUE_USE_NSPR)
<lool> ?
<asac> lool: only in cases where you need the THREADSAFE MACROS
<asac> which is unfortunately and breaches the ideal
<lool> asac: So should I do this unconditionally in Galeon?
<asac> (as you get nspr library dependencies)
<asac> lool: yes, ifdef XPCOM_GLUE => define ...USE_NSPR
<asac> and ifdef ...USE_NSPR => MOZILLA_XPCOM_LIBS="$MOZILLA_XPCOM_LIBS `pkg-config --libs nspr`"
<lool> asac: And pkg-config as well?  ifdef xpcom_glue => pkgconfig nspr?
<asac> yeah
<lool> ok
<lool> That's going to be mightly ugly hmm
<lool> asac: I'm disappearing shortly for lunch, bbl
<lool> asac: thanks a lot!
<asac> well ... its in line with the current configure.in approach ;)
<asac> hehe
<asac> ok
<asac> welcome
<asac> if it serves our debian/upstream relationsship i am happy to help ;)
<asac> and not doing it on my own helps me to spread know-how + i dont need to suffer the typing ;)
<philn> launcher icon and .desktop file is no longer in /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash ?
<ravocx> if i want to checkout ubuntu-mobile. which device should i buy?
<persia> ravocx: You probably want to first test with a virtual image.  Any A110 or Atom device ought at least work, although the current images work best on a Samsung Q1U.
<ravocx> good plan
<ravocx> so the Samung Q1U is the platform most developed on ?
<ravocx> that device looks really nice. love to develop my home automation project on that
<lool> ravocx: It's not very representative of the technical characteristics of the target platform, but it's commnly available and maps well to the target form factor
<lool> it's decently supported under linux except webcam
<ravocx> what is the target platform then ?
<persia> ravocx: If you're working on a home-automation platform, I wouldn't start with the Q1U: you'd do better to determine your target hardware based on your project requirements, and then get Ubuntu Mobile to work on that hardware.
<lool> lpia
<lool> menlow for now
<persia> lool: Isn't Q1U lpia?  I thought those were A110s
<ravocx> persia: the device will be more a frontend for the project
<lool> persia: hmm right, it's already lpia
<persia> ravocx: Right: if you want a tablet, you don't need the Q1U keyboard.  If you want a keyboard, you likely want a different device.
<persia> Picking the right front-end is key, and you can run on any lpia device.
<ravocx> that's true. don't need a keyboard for the front-end, you should do the main config on a desktop
<persia> ravocx: So, pick a device that meets your ergonomic needs and runs A110 or Atom, and then you're 90% of the way there.
<ravocx> indeed
<ravocx> thanks
<ogra> ravocx, will that be an opensource project or just rivate hacking ? 
<ogra> *private
<ravocx> at first private hacking
<ravocx> but it will be an open source project
<ogra> cool
<ogra> make sure to get it packaged for ubuntu :)
 * ogra has a big house and is tempted to try home automation ...
<ogra> but short on time to invest into hacking and soldering :)
<ravocx> hehe
<ravocx> soldering and i dont go well together
<ravocx> the project is based on x10 hardware
<ravocx> just started the project, and don't have a lot of free time on my hands
<ravocx> but i can dim my lights now through code
<lool> asac: It's better now
<lool> ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(GaleonWrapper.o):(.data.rel.ro._ZTV15GConsoleMessage[vtable for GConsoleMessage]+0x28): undefined reference to `GConsoleMessage::GetMessageMoz(unsigned short**)'
<lool> ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(ExternalProtocolService.o):(.data.rel.ro._ZTV24GExternalProtocolService[vtable for GExternalProtocolService]+0x40): undefined reference to `GExternalProtocolService::GetProtocolHandlerInfoFromOS(nsACString const&, int*, nsIHandlerInfo**)'
<lool> ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(ExternalProtocolService.o):(.data.rel.ro._ZTV24GExternalProtocolService[vtable for GExternalProtocolService]+0x48): undefined reference to `GExternalProtocolService::SetProtocolHandlerDefaults(nsIHandlerInfo*, int)'
<lool> and:
<lool> /usr/bin/ld: galeon: hidden symbol `GExternalProtocolService::SetProtocolHandlerDefaults(nsIHandlerInfo*, int)' isn't defined
<asac> lool: ok GetMessageMoz needs to be implemented in Wrapper
<lool> asac: If you like, checkout latest svn and try a build
<asac> lool: and SetProtocolHandlerDefaults needs to be implemented two as far as i can tell here
<lool> asac: So there's no implementation I can inherit from?
<asac> lool: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/miscpatches/69_get-message-moz.patch
<asac> lool: just implement it as empty to get things going ;)
<asac> not sure why they do it at all
<asac> as xulrunner-gnome-support should already use gconf
<asac> but well. step by step ;)
<asac> lool: http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/uriloader/exthandler/nsExternalHelperAppService.cpp#932
<lool> asac: Thanks, getmessagemoz fixed with the change
<lool> asac: I didn't think of moving out of the class def
<lool> asac: (i'm in our weekly call since 40 mns hence not too repsonsive)
<asac> lool: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/miscpatches/62_libxul-embedding-unstable.patch
<asac> try that
<asac> and update autotools
<lool> Trying patch debian/patches/63_mozilla-config-no-path.patch at level 1 ... 0 ... 2 ... failure.
<asac> lool: yeah maybe a bit bit shuffeling
<asac> the idea is to ddisable the custom protocol handler by not building it at all
<philn> my app doesn't launch correctly from the menu, is there a way to see what's going on?
<philn> the .desktop file is probably wrong, but i have no clue what
<lool> philn: .xsession-errors?
<philn> ha forgot to install the dbus service file ;)
<lool> asac: Is that valid with "!"?
<lool> asac: Kicking a build with external service disabled for xpcom glue
<philn> is the .desktop OnlyShownIn supported on "normal" desktops too? should i ship an UME-specific desktop file ?
<lool> ../mozilla/.libs/libmozillaembed.a(MozRegisterComponents.o): In function `GExternalProtocolServiceConstructor':
<lool> /home/lool/svn/debian/pkg-galeon/unstable/build-area/galeon-2.0.5/mozilla/MozRegisterComponents.cpp:82: undefined reference to `GExternalProtocolService::GExternalProtocolService()'
<lool> asac: almost there
<lool> asac: Should I ifdef that out?
<lool> NS_GENERIC_FACTORY_CONSTRUCTOR(GExternalProtocolService)
<lool> philn: It's supported on normal desktop too, but will hide your app in desktops which aren't listed there
<lool> philn: For instance if your desktop is Xfce or KDE and you write OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Mobile; you wont see it on your desktop
<philn> i see :/
<lool> philn: It's something which we are reverting for itnrepid
<philn> ok, so i drop that stuff?
<lool> philn: You could provide a specific desktop file to workaround this in hardy
<lool> e.g. elisa-mobile, with the same contents as elisa.desktop plus OnlyShowIn=Mobile;
<philn> ok
<lool> In file included from MozRegisterComponents.cpp:30:
<lool> ProgressListener.h:75: warning: 'GProgressListener' declared with greater visibility than the type of its field 'GProgressListener::<anonymous>'
<lool> ProgressListener.h:75: warning: 'GProgressListener' declared with greater visibility than its base 'nsSupportsWeakReference'
<lool> asac: if I ifdef out the NS_GENERIC_FACTORY_CONSTRUCTOR(GExternalProtocolService) ^
<philn> can i ship both .desktop files by default? i don't think it'd hurt
<lool> philn: Yup, that's what I meant
<philn> ok ;)
<lool> philn: Sorry, this is really mbf being broken here
<lool> persia would have lots to say here :)
 * persia is being reserved, and suggests being prepared to remove the OnlyShowIn line as soon as intrepid becomes an interesting target.
<persia> philn: What you want to do is have one .desktop file that you ship, that is normally policy compliant.
<lool> persia: philn needs it to work with hardy; shipping two desktop files is the best way to work in all cases I would guess
<persia> In your build for Ubuntu Mobile Hardy, you'll need to patch it to do OnlyShowIn~GNOME;Mobile;.  I'd recommend doing this as a distro-level patch, even if you are upstream, as it will be reverted soon.
<persia> lool: Shipping two .desktop files is harder to clean up later, but I guess that could also work.
<philn> hmm ok, so i do as persia advises? ;)
<lool> persia: In the case of elisa, everything is runtime
<lool> persia: He ships the same .deb for both hildon and gnome and kde
<lool> No rebuild whatsoever
<lool> There's no risk that this breaks in XDG compliant desktop
<persia> lool: Right, but it's hacked to have OnlyShowIn for Ubuntu Mobile Hardy.
<lool> They wont show the mobile version of the desktop file
<persia> GNOME will show both.
<lool> However in mobile intrepid, it will break for mobiel
<lool> persia: GNOME shouldn't show OnlyShowIn=Mobile; it does?
<persia> lool: Does m-b-f?  I thought it required "GNOME;Mobile"
<persia> +;
<lool> I think it only requires Mobile!
<lool> I do hope so
 * persia checks
<lool> I'm quite sure it does
<lool> It only checks for mobile
<lool>                                                 if (!g_ascii_strcasecmp (onlyshowin[j], "MOBILE")) {
<lool>                                                         show_app = TRUE;
<philn> anyway, how do i play foobillard? :D
<lool> despite the misleading comments ;)
<lool> philn: You shake the Q1 in the air
<lool> If you crash it on the floor, the balls you should hear a billard sound
<lool> Once
<lool> Repeat with next Q1
<philn> hehehe
<persia> lool: Right.  It's the code comment that says "files that don't have OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Mobile".  I shouldn't trust comments :)
<philn> ok i'll keep 2 files for now then..
<asac> lool: so did it work (sorry, was having lunch)
<lool> asac: Sorry, were only warnings
<asac> k
<lool> the actual error is MozRegisterComponents.cpp:145: error: 'GExternalProtocolServiceConstructor' was not declared in this scope
<lool> because I didn't properly comment out everything
<lool> asac: Woohoo
<lool> builds
 * asac dancing
<lool> asac: Do I need a xulrunner-1.9 dep?
<asac> lool: yes
<lool> asac: Crashes when rendering sadly
<asac> lool: bt?
<lool> asac: Need to get dbgsym
<asac> lool: GALEON_MOZILLA_HOME is still defined i think (as -D..HOME=\"\")
<asac> not sure if thats the problem
<asac> gtk_moz_embed_push_startup should go after setting the directory provider (if its used in our build)
<lool> indeed it is
<lool> Ah if instead of if !
<lool> And then another patch wasn't disabling enough
<lool> asac: AND IT WORKS
 * lool hugs asac and squeeze him to death
<lool> even youtube with flash and working sound
<asac> lool: rock the boat :)
<lool> I owe you a beer column or whatever it's called
<lool> asac: All committed
<philn> is that for the ume browser?
<lool> Not at all :)
<lool> It's for galeon, the mozilla browser which was used as the beginning of the epiphany fork
 * philn goes back to sleep ;)
<lool> Sad that now that galeon is dead epiphany moves to webkit
<lool> Means we have no real alternate xul browser
<lool> (for GNOME)
<lool> Firefox is better at it though
<lool> And there's kazhekase for gtk+ alternative browsing but still
<Uraeus> lool: the firefox GNOME intergration is quite decent these days though
<lool> Uraeus: Yup, that's what I was implying with Firefox is better at it
<lool> Uraeus: I'm using Firefox BTW
<lool> asac: Tempted to do evolution-rss?
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24727/
<lool> I would guess it misses the xul bootstrap thihng
<lool> asac: "ember" on #ubuntu-desktop is doing it
<lool> Well he's in #gnome-debian for that ATM
<K3rnelP4nic> hi
<K3rnelP4nic> persia: are u here?
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: Yes, although I encourage you to ask questions generally: I'm unlikely to be the most knowledgeable person here on any topic.
<K3rnelP4nic> :P
<K3rnelP4nic> /etc/event.d/services doesnt exist
<persia> Should it?
<K3rnelP4nic>  I'll tell you to consider tweaking /etc/event.d/session and creating an alternate xorg.conf <- You said yesterday
<K3rnelP4nic> about screen blinking when X sever doesnt start
<ogra> session != services ?
<K3rnelP4nic> :P
<K3rnelP4nic> session too,
<persia> It doesn't?  From where did you get your image again?
<ogra> you can boot with init=/bin/bash as kernel parameter to get into a rootshell
<K3rnelP4nic> http://pastebin.ca/1061332
<K3rnelP4nic> this is from Image Creator
<ogra> tnn the X script wont fire and you can edit stuff
<K3rnelP4nic> v0.44
<K3rnelP4nic> ogra: im into chroot atm
<K3rnelP4nic> and i can access via ssh
<ogra> right, i meant if you are stuck at a respawning device that doesnt bring up X :)
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: Right.  I suspect you're missing some essential FSet.  I don't pretend to understand FSets, so I can't tell you which.  Hold on a bit, and I'll tell you which package to install.
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: Hmm.  I'm not sure how X is trying to start at all if you don't have that file.  Anyway, on my machine, I'm getting it from ume-config-samsung-qa-ultra (and no, I don't have a Q1U).  You can probably get one from any of the ume-config-specific-target packages.
<K3rnelP4nic> kk, i try it now
<K3rnelP4nic> ty :D
<K3rnelP4nic> lol, is a fetch problem :P
<K3rnelP4nic> E: Couldn't find package helix-cip-codecs
<asac> lool: cool. if you give credits to me, use the @ubuntu.com address as i contributed during ubuntu time :)
<asac> lool: i guess evolution-rss should be far easier
<asac> lool: will you push to debien directly?
<asac> debian
<lool> asac: I pushed to Debian and it's syncable to Ubuntu
<lool> asac: I crediter you by email at the top of the new patches and in the debian/changelog; I hope that's ok
<asac> lool: thats fine. please send this stuff upstream if possible
<asac> i think it should still biuld with xul 1.8
<asac> lool: and thanks for your work on this. i feel delighted now!
<lool> asac: I ahve pointed upstream at it before the changes, and just pointed them again
<lool> They don't want to merge the configure bits because upstream doesn't ship .pc files
<lool> 16:50 < philipl> lool: The main problem is that mozilla.org doesn't provide any  .pc files so that's left up to each distro to handle.
<lool> 16:50 < philipl> I can merge the core patches but the configure stuff will need  to stay a distro patch, I think.
<lool> I'm trying to convince Philip the other way around
<asac> lool: err. make install ships .pc files
<asac> not sure what they mean
<ogra> woah, the openmoko costs $399 ? 
<ogra> geez, thats expensive 
<lool> ogra: USD!
<lool> USD are like roubles
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> well, still
<asac> lets see. 1.9.0.0 was actually released ;)
<ogra> my GF is off to Aldi to buy a netbook for â¬399
<asac> http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/xulrunner/releases/1.9.0.0/sdk/xulrunner-1.9.en-US.linux-i686.sdk.tar.bz2
<lool> ogra: It's cheaper to buy your own chunk of land in the US than a parcell of the moon these days
<ogra> with atom/1G/80G and 
<asac> (the sdk)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> but for that price you still get some small lappie or something 
<ogra> in th eend its only a mobile phone ... 
<lool> Folks, I need to run to the post office
<lool> I hope I'll be back for meeting
 * lool &
<asac> lool: btw, i probably will not get the spec done today :(
<asac> too much support on gecko porting (not only you) ;)
<asac> btw, now that you are a master of standalone glue you could add #ubuntu-mozillateam to the "always connect" list ;)
<ogra> heh
<davidm> Almost time for the weekly meeting.
 * GrueMaster yawns
<GrueMaster> morning.
<davidm> morning GrueMaster 
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> OK good day everyone, the meeting is started.
 * ogra waves
<davidm> The wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080702
<davidm> From old business I was to poke amitk for info on sysfs, which I've done and info is on the wiki page from last weeks meeting and this weeks meeting.
<davidm> Is there more we need to do on that topic?
 * davidm suspects not
<ogra> we will need a way to link from a device name back to an item in the sysfs tree was the base for that question iirc
<davidm> OK then moving on.
<davidm> On to new business.  And I don't see any on the wiki page.
<davidm> Does anyone have any opens?
<persia> I've a small item.
<davidm> persia, OK go ahead
<persia> I'd like to request that we push this meeting to the fridge each week to get on the schedule, and consider #ubuntu-meeting as a forum.  This reduces the chance of scheduling conflicts.
<ogra> ++
<cgregan> +1
<ogra> but that meas someone constantly has to care for the fridge
<davidm> what is the fridge?
<ogra> there is no automatism
<ogra> fridge.ubuntu.com
<persia> ogra: It just means one email a week to the ubuntu-news-team.
<ogra> its building the schedule for #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> davidm: fridge.ubuntu.com
<ogra> it has an ical file that many users in the community use 
<davidm> I don't have a particular preference, who can do the maintenance at fridge and can we schedule a repeating meeting?
<persia> No such thing as scheduling a repeating meeting, but I'll send email to the fridge.  16:00 on Thursdays?
<davidm> Indeed, until the next time change and it will likely move again.
<persia> Just remind me at the meeting before the changed one, as I'll be manually sending this each week :)
<GrueMaster> iirc, the reason for the time change was for Intel people to align with their schedule.
<davidm> So is there some chance that someone could schedule a meeting over or before us in the #ubuntu-meeting?  If so that is an issue.
<persia> There is a chance, but we can be agressive about scheduling.  Once we build a regular pattern, it's unlikely that others will collide.
<davidm> And may be why it's always been scheduled here.
<cgregan> The QA team manages to keep their meeting regular using the fridge.
 * persia is in two meetings now, and wants to avoid repeats :)
<ogra> -meeting is the channel the community is aware of fo rmeetings ...
<ogra> we will get better commuity involvement by using it
<ogra> and its scheduling system
<davidm> Does this work a week at a time or can we book the next 10 meetings now?
<persia> It generally works a week or two in advance.
<persia> I'll book the next two after this meeting, and try to keep two weeks in advance as we go forward.
<ogra> we did it four in advance n the past for edubunu
<ogra> you just have to remember sending the mail at the beginning of a month :)
<davidm> persia, I like the sound of ogra's method 4 weeks in advance.
<ogra> which is the annoyinfg part
<davidm> Where is the calendar on there?  Or does it not really have a claendar?
<persia>  /events
<ogra> not anymore
<lool> Right, and you can subscribe to an ics I think
<ogra> they swtched t a different cal system
<davidm> no events there
<ogra> rss and ical
<persia> Bah.  I'll ping a fridge person.  Hold on...
<ogra> you can import the ical file into evo
<lool> I'm using the rss feed though http://fridge.ubuntu.com/atom/feed
<K3rnelP4nic> i got this error when i prepare the image:
<K3rnelP4nic> /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<lool> K3rnelP4nic: We're in a middle ATM, can you ask later?
<lool> K3rnelP4nic: Thanks!
<ogra> in a middle :)
<lool> *the :)
<K3rnelP4nic> sure :D
<davidm> persia, please schedule the next 4 meetings, and we will take the rest off-line.  My next announcement email will use #ubuntu-meeting as it's location. 
<persia> davidm: OK.  Thanks.
<davidm> If we collide however it's a big issue I can't move this meeting time.
<persia> Then we'll push :)
<ogra> the channel used to be free at this time
<davidm> OK so this topic is complete, anything else new?
<ogra> and the java team only has its first meeting today there atm
<persia> ogra: it wiill be free again from next week: the current meeting is at an exceptional time.
<davidm> If they have the time slot we will have to stay here.
<persia> Java is likely to move to 15:00
<davidm> OK persia please let me know off line, if we can get this slot I'm fine with it, if not we stay here.
<persia> davidm: We'll get the slot.
<davidm> Next....
<cgregan> Just a notice that US employees will be offline tomorrow
<GrueMaster> What is the new process for image updates and upgrades?
<davidm> new process? Has it changed?
<GrueMaster> Not sure that it was ever ironed out. 
<GrueMaster> For example, you now have the update manager available for spot updates.  This is good for small items, but on devices with limited storage, will fill up fast.
<lool> GrueMaster: How do you recommend people upgrade for security fixes?
<ogra> you need to regualry roll updated images i'd guess
<lool> GrueMaster: is there are moblin recommendation on upgrades?
<GrueMaster> I was wondering if anyone had explored a way of doing image updates, i.e. replacing rootfs.img with an updated version.
<ogra> that wont work 
<GrueMaster> I don't work directly with Moblin.
<ogra> but you could (with external resource) resquash the image on a separate disk
<GrueMaster> And I seriously doubt anyone in that group has considered it.
<lool> We use moblin-image-creator in hardy, and it hardcodes the partioning scheme
<lool> *partitioning
<lool> The fact that the /boot partition is the one containing kernels and at the same time the rootfs image is a serious issue for any upgrade scenario
<ogra> lool, i was workig on a concept for the cmpc ... but you will in any case need a second target device to roll the iage on
<ogra> *image
<GrueMaster> lool:  not really
<lool> ogra: Another option is having a special partition for that
<GrueMaster> It actually helps simplify it without overwriting user data.
<ogra> just roll a squashfs out of the unionfs ... then reformat the cow partition and replace the image
<lool> GrueMaster: What are you replying to?
<ogra> that needs to much space i bet
<ogra> i haven any measure data though
<lool> We discussed this at UDS
<GrueMaster> My thought is that there are weekly (or daily) updates (I don't know if there is a set schedule).
<lool> There are security and stable updates
<lool> Some cycles are scheduled
<GrueMaster> Once or twice a month, you roll out a new compressed image with the updates slipstreamed in place.  
<lool> We will do this every six months, at Ubuntu dot releases
<GrueMaster> The tricky part is deleting the updates from the unionfs drive w/o removing the user data.
<lool> Yeah, that's the part I'd call "not implemented yet"
<GrueMaster> six months is too long for a device with only 4G.
 * ogra uses a separate /home on the cmpc for that
<GrueMaster> And that is an upgrade, not an update.
<GrueMaster> That's kind of where I am going.  Right now, the rootfs.img has the entire drive structure.  If /home were separated out, then replacing the contents of /dev/sda1 would be all that is needed, plus deleting the os directories on the unionfs.
<davidm> GrueMaster, we are spinning a new image for 8.04.1 which all updates will be in the image.
<ogra> GrueMaster, and possible changes the user made to system configs ? 
<GrueMaster> davidm:  ok, but what do you have in place for retaining user data on mids?
<lool> The partitioning is hardcoded in moblin-image-creator
<lool> The partitioning doesn't create a /home and puts rootfs on /boot, which makes it hard to maintain /boot
<davidm> GrueMaster, nothing that is currently in the USB team's area case by case for the ODM
<lool> There are many issues with it
<GrueMaster> User config changes would need to be either kept or reviewed through a script during update.
<ogra> imho the only proper way is to re-roll an image from the users actual system to not destroy anything
<lool> Moblin doesn't provide an upgrader either (that I know of)
<ogra> hey, we can be better :)
<ogra> but thats surely bigger than just a meeting topic for discussing it 
<GrueMaster> I'm just trying to throw ideas out there.  My job is system integration testing and development, I.e. getting all the different bits to work together.
<lool> GrueMaster: Your remarks are valid, I'm just pointing that this situation is the consequence of software shortcomings from MIC (IMO)
<GrueMaster> If I get time next week, I'll try to draft a paper outlining my ideas a little better.
<GrueMaster> lool:  I fully agree.
<lool> I also think this should be discussed during sprints, like it was discussed at UDS
<ogra> send it to the ML and start a thread there :)
<lool> GrueMaster: Did you attend the Moblin sprint last weeK?
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately, I wasn't invited to teh last one.
<ogra> right details should be discussed at sprints
<lool> GrueMaster: Do you know what came out of it?
<lool> GrueMaster: To UDS?
<GrueMaster> Nope.
<lool> We asked every week here who would come from Intel
<GrueMaster> I'm technically only a contract employee.  In some circles, my opinion is moot.
<GrueMaster> Believe me, I wanted to.
<lool> GrueMaster: Were you invited to the Moblin sprint?
<GrueMaster> come to UDS that is.
<GrueMaster> No I wasn't.
<lool> GrueMaster: You should voice your wish for next UDS
<GrueMaster> I'm not an employee, so I would have to attend on my own time at my own expense.
<GrueMaster> But I will keep it in mind.
<GrueMaster> I was only $500 short from the last one (est $3k).
<GrueMaster> Butthat's a different topic.
<cwng> Just curious, who is expected to fix MIC's shortcomings?
<davidm> I would assume Intel
<davidm> They are the designers of it.  We make suggestions but ....
<lool> cwng: I would have expected MIC's upstream; as nobody on our side has commit access and some ten patches or more are pending upstream merging, it's unlikely we continue working upstream on it
<GrueMaster> From what I was told by the owners of MIC, "It's open source, fix it yourself".
<cwng> So, if a user could not install an Ubuntu-UME image on a 2G drive, that would be a MIC issue, thus Intel should fix it?
<lool> Sure, we fixed annoying issues on our tree
<GrueMaster> Personally, I don't have time to learn yet another language.
<lool> cwng: if the tool is meant for devices where full image upgrades have to be supported and the tool doesn't support it I blame the tool
<HappyCamp> lool: smagoun has commit access to MIC
<GrueMaster> And anyone should be able to email patches to the maintainer (I would assume).
<lool> I would hope attaching patches to MIC bugs in its BTS is enough
<GrueMaster> Unfrtunately, that was tried in the ALSA bug tool.  Unless you have enough people with time to review the bug reports, you can get overwhelmed very quickly.
<lool> Also many changes piled, and no release happens anymore
<ogra> GrueMaster, it works quite well in launchpad ...
<lool> If you can't get patches reviewed and merged, don't get commit access, and no new release happen, you're not tempted to contribute or help a free software project, it looks defunct from the outside
<ogra> (else ubuntu wouldnt be what it is ;) )
<cwng> lool:  you are still talking about MIC, right?
<lool> I'm happy to generalize on other projects such as mbf
<lool> but then we're getting way off topic
<lool> I'm sorry code exchanges have grinded to an halt with moblin
<GrueMaster> One possible problem I see, after being at Intel for ~10 years, is that priorities change like the wind.  While MIC may be a very high priority this year, next year it could easily be backed into a corner.
<GrueMaster> Moblin is a prime example.
<lool> So what about moblin 2?
<davidm> OK we are way off topic here so lets move on.
<GrueMaster> Priorities have shifted to the next generation product line, and maintaining 1.0 conflicts with that.
<GrueMaster> agreed
 * lool apologizes for pulling into off topicness
<davidm> I don't want to get into a conversation around Intel's priorities, that is outside my scope.
<GrueMaster> understood.
<davidm> So are there other open issues or I'll bring the meeting to a close.
<GrueMaster> I guess part of why I started this topic in the first place was to find out when the latest video drivers were going to be included.
<lool> So shall we discuss this now?
<davidm> lool, go for it.
<lool> [topic] -19v2 psb drivers
<davidm> [topic] -19v2 psb drivers
<MootBot> New Topic:  -19v2 psb drivers 
<lool> thanks
<GrueMaster> Currently, 2.0.1.32L.0016 is in the PV + updates.
<lool> So these were merged for xorg and drm last week I think; one open issue was the displayed version of drm in xorg video driver
<lool> Now everything except kernel should have 19 as a version
<lool> Ubuntu's libdrm carries the psb drm headers, as other drm drivers do it, and it was carrying an older version of the headers
<lool> the interface didn't change, but the version was misleading
<lool> So we updated the copy of the headers there and rebuilt
<lool> Latest version of kernel driver is in the ODM build's kernel and it's merged or being merged in the Ubuntu hardy tree and will be part of next hardy-updates upload
<lool> I've filed a SRU bug on this update, but it might not warrant an upload immediately
<GrueMaster> From what I know of the kernel modules, the interface didn't change, but there were changes for S3/S4 states.
<lool> Once uploaded, it will take ~10 days to migrate from hardy-proposed to hardy-updates
<lool> (it's all I have on the topic, I'm happy to clarify any part of it)
<davidm> Five minute warning............
<GrueMaster> Sounds good to me.  I wish there were an easier way to drop in the whole package, but I understand it takes time to sync.
<lool> GrueMaster: Currently, it's the same source package for all kernels in hardy
<lool> -- i386, amd64 lpia etc.
<GrueMaster> I know.
<lool> So if we update only for an arch, it forces a reboot for amd64/i386
<lool> And we have to QA iton these arches as well
<lool> In intrepid, it will live in a separate tree
<GrueMaster> Hopefully, the powers here that are actively developing on it can get it into the upstream kernels before Intrepid, but I'm not holding my breath.
<lool> Certainly going via upstream would help us a lot
<GrueMaster> It really boils down to timing.
<davidm> OK, about to close the meeting going once...................................
<davidm> OK, about to close the meeting going twice....................
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:01.
<lool> cwng HappyCamp: Hey were you at the Moblin 2 sprint?  How can one track what was discussed there?  Did you invite some upstream people?
<lool> davidm: (thanks!)
<persia> K3rnelP4nic: You had an issue?
<davidm> lool, welcome
<cwng> lool: Sorry, I was not
<lool> cwng: If it's not confidential, could you send me a list of Intel attendees that I could talk to?
<lool> HappyCamp: You were at the Moblin 2 sprint by any chance?
<cwng> lool: I am not invited to Moblin 2 sprint and I am currently not involve with Moblin2.  May be HappyCamp could help?
<lool> cwng: Hmm what about midbrowser?  it's still part of moblin 2, right?
<lool> cwng: Ah well I guess we can discuss this when there's more public information on it
<cwng> lool: Sorry.  I think I am more clueless than you are.  
<lool> cwng: Nah, I'm just too curious :)
<GrueMaster> lool  there are things about moblin 2.0 that neither of us a re privy to.
<lool> Hmm /me forgot to buy eggs &
<GrueMaster> ?
<lool> I forgot to buy eggs and need to go buy some quicl
<lool> I mean for real
<lool> I need to go shopping if I want my dinner to succeed
<lool> bbl
<ogra> run loola run :)
<ogra> (sorry couldnt resist)
 * Sciri groans
<lool> back
<GrueMaster> I like my eggs over easy.
<GrueMaster> Do you have any bacon to go with them?
<ogra> so american
<GrueMaster> Ok, canadian bacon.
<ogra> heh
<GrueMaster> :P
 * lool has salmon
<GrueMaster> Ooo.  Good stuff.
<ogra> yummy
<GrueMaster> Eggs Benedict with salmon is great.
<GrueMaster> Or a 3 egg omlette.
<GrueMaster> I'm not picky.
<lool> I'm eating them separately, with eggs cooked to the point where the white is solid but the yellow is liquid
<GrueMaster> shesh.  No culinary imagination.
<persia> lool: cooked in-shell or out of shell?
<lool> in shell
<lool> with bread and butter
 * ogra prefers shell to python in that case too
<persia> ogra: In that case, you've never had good stuffed snake.
<ogra> no, i didnt actually
<ogra> the most exotic i have eaten (from a german POV) was horse during student exchange in france
<lool> ogra: horse is less popular these days
<ogra> that was early 80s :)
<katie> could someone tell me if Ubuntu MID edition will be able to work on my Asus eee 901?
<katie> thank you
<mapomapo> hi all
<mapomapo> is there anybody who has tested ubuntu mid on an asus eeepc 701 ?
<mapomapo> (if it's possible to do the installation)
<GrueMaster> ï»¿mapomapo:  I have heard it is possible to use the McCasslin build for the 701 with some minor changes.  The mid builds are designed for touch screen use, though.
<mapomapo> thank you GrueMaster, now i'm enjoying myself trying to find one "ad-hoc" distro for my baby-eee :D
<amortvigil> hey i have a samsung f770v can i put ubuntu in there?
<amortvigil> f700v*
<amortvigil> !mobiles
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about mobiles
<amortvigil> !phones
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about phones
<amortvigil> !phone
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about phone
<amortvigil> !pda
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pda
<lool> amortvigil: Ubuntu Mobile is currently aimed at MID devices typically running Intel LPIA CPUs
<lool> amortvigil: More details in the FAQ
<amortvigil> lool, so no mobile phones?
<lool> amortvigil: Well, it could be ported but that's hard work, or you could search for lpia based mofile phones
<amortvigil> could the samsung F700 bee one? samsung wont give away proc specification...
<amortvigil> lool, 
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-04
<lool> http://joze100s.wordpress.com/category/samsung/ says it's an arm
<amortvigil> how did you find that i spent the whole night to find that lool 
<jerryfan> is there any way to emit fake acpi event by command line?
<LTSPTNK> guys, is it possible to install Ubuntu 8.04 MID on eee pc?
<LTSPTNK> I have EEE PC 701 and it wont boot on Ubuntu MID image?
<LTSPTNK> I mean I burned the image to CD and using USB cd drive
<ogra> it will likely only work on the atom models
<ogra> and you should rather use dd and make a binary 1:1 copy of the image to a usb key an boot from that 
<ogra> i doubt it will "just boot" from an iso you mak of it without modifying bootfiles etc
<LTSPTNK> but isnt the 700MHz celeron part of McCaslin platform?
<LTSPTNK> Or so I thought?
<LTSPTNK> Ogra, how do I make that copy? 
<persia> LTSPTNK: Nope.  McCaslin is A100 or A110
<LTSPTNK> The Intel processors A100 and A110 are x86 architecture low-power microprocessors (code-named Stealey), with a Dothan core derived from the Intel Pentium M, built on a 90 nm process with 512KB L2 cache and 400MHz front side bus (FSB).
<LTSPTNK> ^^wikipedia
<persia> Note that some other chips can boot a McCaslin environment, but aren't properly McCaslin.  The C7-M cannot boot McCaslin.
<LTSPTNK> and this Celeron is most definatly based on Dothan Core, so it should support all the same features
<persia> Right.  McCaslin is Stealey + a matching chipset.
<LTSPTNK> off course, the whole platform
<LTSPTNK> anyway then use normal Ubuntu 8.04 normal image and install the fansy looking interface of the MID version?
<persia> Not quite.  Some things are compiled differently for lpia, which makes the interface different.
<LTSPTNK> becouse, we have been researching the usage of EEE PC's in school envinroment, but the Xandros, unfortunately, sucks.
<LTSPTNK> Ubuntu would be quite good, but while not having good interface for 7" display, it will not be an option
<persia> LTSPTNK: Try using the dd command mentioned earlier to create a USB key with the image, and boot off that.  It may work.
<LTSPTNK> But ubuntu would have working samba, likewise and all other things
<LTSPTNK> dd= and then, havent used linux more than 9 months, so last time i used dd command I just erased my whole hard drive, while I mentioned to erase USB key which had contained sercert things :D
<persia> LTSPTNK: Hmm.  I don't have a better solution for you.  You may wish to wait until some other installer becomes available.
<LTSPTNK> but do U know the options I should use?
<persia> dd if=$(downloaded image file) of=$(device path for USB stick) bs=1024
<persia> The easiest way to determine the path for your USB stick is to call dmesg | tail immediately after connecting it.
<LTSPTNK> and path is /media/disk or something else?
<persia> Nope.  /dev/sd$(something)
<LTSPTNK> ohh u mean device path?
<LTSPTNK> gparted tells it :)
<LTSPTNK> /dev/sdc
<LTSPTNK> this is something I love with Linux, U can really get help :)
<ogra> persia, btw i think we urgently need a gui for that dd stuff ... i'f i'm not busy with classmate images on the weekend i'll attack that 
<persia> ogra: Cool.  Thanks,.
<ogra> (only needs three gui elements anyway)
<persia> File chooser, File chooser, Status report?
<ogra> file chooser for image, puldown menu with detected USB keys and a progress bar 
<ogra> well, and to buttons "ok" "go"
<ogra> *two
<persia> How to differentiate between USB key and other storage?  sysfs tree?
<ogra> err, "go"  "cancel" :)
<ogra> hal 
<ogra> just ask hal for all devices that are tagged removabe, then check if they are usb
<persia> Probably want to display the volume name as well, for those with persistant USB connections to stuff.
<ogra> volume name only
<persia> How about auto-unmounting it as well, as nautilus will auto-mount
<ogra> i dont want /dev/something exposed to users :)
<persia> I don't like volume name only: I've a couple keys with the same volume name, but track which I connected last.
<ogra> (probably in brackets behind the name, but not as default)
<ogra> not sure you ever used my cmpc installer ... :) 
<persia> That works: cater to both classes of user, with /dev-aware as second-class
<ogra> but i would just take the code i use there
<persia> Nope: I don't have a cmpc
<ogra> it should roughly work on every celeron with intel graphics (roughly as in you will have probs with wlan etc because thats customized)
<persia> Should the cmpc build work on the SR8, or is it too HW specific to even boot?
<ogra> i tried it on the Q1 :) and it worked fine 
<ogra> at the last sprint 
<persia> I'll give it a try this weekend then.
<ogra> well, its supposed to go away anyway at some point in favour of the actual UNR build ... but there is a lot code we cn surely reuse or modify for the intrepid pieces we need
<LTSPTNK> atleast the image booted
<persia> ogra: Where is it?  I don't see it on cdimages.u.c, and google isn't playing nice.
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
 * persia should have guessed :)
<ogra> its a bit outdated ... the one i'm working on will be ful lpia
<persia> That's OK.  I'm more just curious about it, as some of it may be interesting, and you've added lots of hacks.
<persia> Just put on USB, and boot?
<LTSPTNK> seems to not work
<LTSPTNK> it has been in same point for 5 minutes
<LTSPTNK> #attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
<LTSPTNK> and not writing hard disk
<ogra> persia, xactly 
<LTSPTNK> what could be problem with this thingie? the SSD hard disk most propably?
<persia> LTSPTNK: Rather assumptions in the installer that you have exactly the right arrangement of hardware.
<lool> asac: Around?
<persia> You could mount the squashfs in loopback and hack it, but it won't install cleanly on your machine because of different device assignment.
<LTSPTNK> and now one has customized this image for EEE PC?
<LTSPTNK> ^^no one
<persia> LTSPTNK: There've been a few Eee users in the channel, but I've not seen any specific reports about what customisation is required.
<ogra> many of them used atom based devices afaik
<LTSPTNK> yeah, problem is that here far in the north where Linux was born, everything arrives 6 months later and costs like hell
<LTSPTNK> so that why I'm having 701 now :(
<LTSPTNK> any EEE PC users here?
<LTSPTNK> any advices what should i do with the Image Creator thingies?
<asac> lool: how can i serve you?
<lool> asac: I just wanted to tell you that I ported evolution-rss to xulrunner 1.9's libxul-embedding :)
<asac> lool: hah
<lool> asac: Following yesterday's theory, I applied it on evolution-rss and got it to build then to not crash
<lool> asac: So thanks again :)
<lool> asac: The last xulrunner 1.9 thing I'm more or less tracking is the mbf one
<lool> asac: Do you think you could dig a tree with it?
<lool> asac: I'd love to close this upstream and in hardy
<asac> lool: whats the current state in hardy?
<lool> (to stop having to use and test xulrunner 1.8 apps)
<lool> asac: Current state is we are using an old mbf which is 1.8
<asac> its manually patched in the package? or not ported at all
<asac> hmm
<lool> It's not ported at all
<asac> didnt you upload something?
<lool> I would prefer a new upstream release of mbf
<lool> No, I tested it
<asac> ok, so you just uploaded to PPA?
<asac> ah
<lool> No
<lool> First, it was around UME release and we had other things in the pipe, and I thought upstream would respond quickly
<lool> Second, the changes were quite intrusive and we didn't have a patch system or anything to track changes
<lool> so doing it downstream would have required many cleanups, adding a patch system then adding the intrusive changes
<asac> lool: ok. I'll look where those bits are and how much i need to reshape them ;)
<lool> asac: Cool
<asac> then push to alioth ;)
<asac> hehe
<lool> asac: I would say the top notch thing for upstream would a git tree derived from their master with the last bits of xulrunner 1.9 support as individual commits
<lool> asac: If you like to look at evolution-rss, it's at svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-evolution/unstable/evolution-rss
<lool> asac: It might be crashing on exit, but I don't care too much about that
<lool> asac: One thing which was different is that the profile path was setup first thing, and this crashes with xulrunner 1.9
<lool> Moving it later fixed this crash
<asac> lool: yes makes sense
<asac> you cannot use any embedding symbols until GRE is booted
<asac> as they all point to 0x0
<asac> ;)=
<asac> lool: why does it crash on exit?
<asac> lool: if you use startup_push (not always required), you also need startup_pop on shutdown
<lool> asac: I didn't check whether this was done properly
<asac> ok
<lool> asac: It might be an unrelated crash
<asac> most likely not
<lool> I'll tell you in a sec
<lool> Ah it's not unrelated, sorry
<lool> asac: Oh ok, makes sense for the not booted use of symbols
<lool> asac: Concerning the crash on exit, I'll look at it later, hopefully this afternoon
<lool> It was using startup_push() before my changes already
<lool> I confirmed that disabling the RSS plugin prevents the crash on exit, but I don't know whether it's an historical bug in the rss plugin
<lool> The code has tons and tons of warnings, some scary one
<lool> s
<lool> There's a gtk_moz_embed_pop_startup ();
<lool> in gecko_shutdown()
<lool> #ifdef HAVE_BUGGY_GECKO
<lool>         if (2 == render)
<lool>                 system("killall -SIGTERM evolution");
<lool> #else
<lool>         gecko_shutdown();
<lool> #endif
<lool>         //really find a better way to deal with this//
<lool>         //I do not know how to shutdown gecko (gtk_moz_embed_pop_startup)
<lool>         //crash in nsCOMPtr_base::assign_with_AddRef
<lool> asac: See what I meant :)
<lool> That's only set if test "x$GECKO" == "xfirefox" fortunately
<asac> fortunately?
<lool> asac: Well at least we're not in that case is what I meant
<asac> ok
<TuxOne> hi
<TuxOne> just heard about the MID...can we embed this system in to smartphone?
<persia> TuxOne: Maybe, if your smartphone is sufficiently powerful, and you have a dialer app.
<TuxOne> hmm
<persia> The target for the recent release was the 4-6" handheld segment, but much of the code may also be used in other applications.
<TuxOne> Does it run as a VM? something similar to j2me?
<persia> It runs on the device directly.  There are VM images available for preview on a desktop system.
<TuxOne> could you please send me the link?
<TuxOne> ah...i got it
<RemsSs> bonjour a tous
<RemsSs> je cherche des gadgets avec ubuntu dedans est ce que ca existe ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-05
<jarjar> hello
<jarjar> does any french people here please
<evilbug> anyone awake?
<evilbug> i'm having a bigger than little ( X_X ) noob issue, humor me... so ubuntu mid won't work on ANY smartphone, yes?
<pronto> anyone working on porting the project for ARM processors?
<pronto> or the OMAP processor 
<lool> pronto: Actively?  not yet
<cxo> i doubt its very hard since everything around it ready for xcompiling
<pronto> that would be great, guess ill look into it , though i would have no idea what im doing 
<pronto> i have both the HTC wizard and HTC Kaiser
<cxo> well basically you would start with getting an arm toolchain
<cxo> which means getting a linux distro installed
<cxo> then build gcc with arm support
<cxo> then xcompile glibc and friends
<cxo> compiling vanilla for arm is child's play
<cxo> now you just need the gui apps
<cxo> X is bit of a bitch to x-compile but people have done it...
<pronto> heh
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-07-06
<jarjar> hello
<jarjar> anyone
<jarjar> you sleep??
<freet15> hi
<ogra> lool, do we have a ubuntu mobile blog ? my fingertraining project for this weekend is https://launchpad.net/usb-imagewriter if thats done it would be nice to announce it on planet
<lool> ogra: We don't have one, perhaps we should
<lool> ogra: Is this to write MIC images, livecd-rootfs images, or both?
<ogra> its just a dd frontend
<ogra> so usable for all images from cdimage
<lool> Does it write to /dev/sdN or sdN1?
<ogra> /dev/sdN
<ogra> it just does dd if=image of=device
<lool> ogra: Quite nice
<ogra> just to save users from having to use a terminal :)
<lool> ogra: Too bad we use the ubuntu-mobile ppa for actual testing of hardy ume updates
<lool> ogra: For virtual-mobile-builder I packaged it and put it in the project's ppa
<ogra> well, i think that tool is usable beyond UME ... if it works as i want it i'll just push it to intrepid universe 
<ogra> and probably ask for a hardy backport 
<lool> ogra: I agree, virtual-mobile-builder is in intrepid as well
<lool> ogra: it's not easy to have the proper set of deps from a hardy base, ubuntu-vm-builder, mic, and vmb have to match
<lool> Hence the ppa for hardy people
<lool> Right, a backport would be sufficient here indeed
<lool> ogra: You might want to set -e find_devices.sh
<ogra> yeps
<lool> haha you made the header image yourself? :)
<lool> Cute :)
<ogra> actually i want that (and the wrapper script that i'm writing right now ) to be in pythob
<lool> Ideally the dd part would be in python as well and have some progress indication
<ogra> well, i'm doing that for fun, not as work ... making eaders is one of the fun elements 
<lool> ogra: I can't agree more!
<lool> ogra: Will look cool in your blog post too! :)
<ogra> well, i'm somewhat scared by diong dd in python
<ogra> dd is safe and proven as tool
<lool> Why is that?
<ogra> i actually like to realy on the consistency of proven tools for such stuff 
<lool> It might be but then ultimately it's just open(), seek() and write() mostly, isn't it?  There might be tons of exceptional cases handling, but does it really recover from themN
<lool> *them?
<ogra> cjwatson also suggested reimlementing in python ... but i'd like to be able to just add dd options later for adjustments etc
<ogra> right, but you somehow need to parse it through a pipe and count bytes etc
<ogra> to get the progress output
<lool> From dd?
<ogra> since i cant just copare source and target size easily while writing to raw devices
<lool> You don't want to parse dd's console output; it's ugly to get it and ugly to parse
<ogra> thats what i do atm
<ogra> its not that ugly to parse :) 
<ogra> but ugly to get i admit 
<lool> You parse dd progress output?
<lool> Hmm I don't see the signalling
<ogra> sending USR1 in a 1sec frequency to it to trigger output
<lool> I've grepped for that and didn't find the signal sending
<ogra> thats in the script i'm just writing, not in the branch yet
<lool> Ahhh
<lool> ok
<lool> I checked for this immediately after checking you were using dd
<lool> I have to go drive my wife to some shopping
<lool> See you later
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25434/
<ogra> yep, ciao :)
<lool> ogra: Do you know how the QA people got their infrastructure and all?
<ogra> stgraber might be able to tell you ... he wrote a lot of that
<ogra> (and runs the isotracker and other tools)
<lool> Wow you wrapper is really ugly
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yeah
<lool> pkilling all dds
<ogra> its the quick hack to make it workable for a start
<ogra> i want the pkill part in the python code later 
<lool> I'd love us to have some mobile.u.c infrastructure to host QA, polls and that kind of stuff; it's hard to come up with a non-transversal use case thopuhg
<ogra> but i want something thats usable by tonight and dont want to put much more time into it :) 
<lool> For instance if you consider blogs, well sure we could set this up, but it would make more sense to have a platform to host all team's blogs, or use launchpad
<ogra> then announce it on the ML and see who picks it up to make it nicer :)
<lool> Same for websites, for QA tests etc.
<lool> ogra: Go ahead and announce it publicly!  \o/
<ogra> as soon as it works ad i have a package :)
<lool> ogra: When mvo pushed the first vmbs it inspired me to jump in and fix things which I wanted to improve
<ogra> announcing working tools is usually better to attrackt devs
<lool> yeah
<lool> I didn't want to tell people about the mobile builder in the beginning because it wasn't using MIC
<ogra> (better than just non working code)
<lool> Wasn't pulling from ppa, that kind of things
<ogra> well, as long as you dont announce it as *the* MIC replacement :)
<lool> What?  the tool to write images?
<lool> We have time for this
<lool> We don't even build dailies ATM
<ogra> no i meant your mobile builder 
<ogra> as long as you dont say its *the* replacement for MIC but just announce it as another tool to build images nobody can complain :)
<lool> vmb is *only* for vms
<ogra> ah
<lool> MIC never did that and it's not meant to replace it
<lool> virtual-mobile-builder
 * lool really goes now
<freet15> Hi 
<pronto> hello
<freet15> where I can get marvell-8686-fireware-9 ?
<freet15> I use image creator to install this ,bu failed ...
<freet15> show me an error msg " can`t install .... you should apt-get install -f" ? but, I can`t search anything about  this from  http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports hardy
<freet15> pronto: :)
<pronto> hrm i have idea  (i more or less just idle here)
<freet15> any body use image creator has got this issue?
<freet15> see u guys, goodnight :)
<lool> asac: Around?
<lool> galeon 2.0.6 release:
<lool> +2.0.6 "Pining for the Fjords"
<lool> +
<lool> +- Works with Firefox 2  and 3 and xulrunner 1.8 and 1.9
<lool> +  - Thanks to Alexander Sack <asac@ubuntu.com> and LoÃ¯c Minier <lool#dooz.org>
<lool> +    for the xulrunner 1.9 patches.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-29
<Archades> howdy, few quick questions, which version would be suited for an incar PC?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-30
<t2> Hi...does anybody know if ubuntu will run on a Marvell processor?
<t2> this one to be exact: Marvell PXA320 XScale 806 MHz
<t2> I'm wondering if I can install ubuntu MID on the Trimble Nomad
<rzr> hi, are there official images for ARMs ?
 * ogra points rzr to #ubuntu-arm :)
<rzr_> ogra: ok thx
<GrueMaster> I'm back.  Firewall decided it was time to die.  Old PII 400 that had been running since 2004 with only a couple of reboots.  Had to scramble to build a temporary replacement until I can image my new ITX based system.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-03
<filipegarcia> can anyone explain me why does my touch monitor works with ubuntu mobile but not in Desktop ?
<ogra> likely because mobile uses a driver thats not installed by default in desktop
<filipegarcia> and can you tell me what drivers mobile uses ?
<ogra> its very likely evtouch ... 
<ogra> apt-cache search for it 
<filipegarcia> ok 
<filipegarcia> thank you
<filipegarcia> desktop allready have the latest version of xserv-xor-input-evtouch
<filipegarcia> but the same configure file doesn't work there
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-07-04
<ramvi> hi davidm
<davidm> hello ramvi 
<ramvi> How are you?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-07-10
<ian_brasil> http://blog.morpheuz.cc/10/07/2010/kde-calls-home/
