#ayatana 2009-09-07
<alourie> good morning
<mac_v> DanRabbit: hmm... why does the spinner jump?
 * mac_v thinks he is biased ;p
<DanRabbit> Because the animation finishes one frame too short
<DanRabbit> I need to readjust it
<mac_v> also the fading lines are a bit blurry
<DanRabbit> feel free to tweak away :)
<mac_v> thats the problems with the lines being prominent , we really cant do much , if there are so many lines at those angles they end up blurred :(
<mac_v> we have to blame pixel restrictions!
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> I'd rather have the applet render it's own spinner in cairo
<DanRabbit> then it'd just be pretty and I wouldn't have to draw anything
<mac_v> ;p
<DanRabbit> :)
 * mac_v tries to convince DanRabbit that the scan idea is a simpler solution ;)
<DanRabbit> hehe
<DanRabbit> but, this is prettier :)
<mac_v> hehe
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i'll try to fix this bug > Bug #404486 , i'll see if it can be done in similar style as humanity, and push to UNR ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 404486 in humanity "xdg Folder Icons are similar to mime/action icons" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404486
<DanRabbit> sure
<mac_v> :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: so far how many icons have you done in 64px?
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> 0
<DanRabbit> I've been out all day :D
<mac_v> if you push whats been done i could do remaining
<mac_v> ;p
<DanRabbit> everythings pushed :)
<DanRabbit> I haven't done anything else
<alourie> can I ask ayatana's design question?
<alourie> how would application appear in MI ? Would it have to "register" somehow?
<mac_v> alourie: tedg /kenvandine are the people best to answer that , they probably work on UTC workhrs
<mac_v> DanRabbit: just pushed a couple of simple ones , check them out :) , if thats ok , rest follow
<alourie> mac_v: thanks
<alourie> mac_v: and who should I talk to about more generic concept idea?
<mac_v> alourie: check the "messaging menu" wiki ,AFAIK there is no actual procedure needed for an app  , BTW which app are you planning to do?
<mac_v> for the MI
<mac_v> alourie: all the requirements are in place... only the apps need to use it
<alourie> mac_v: well, I was following all the thread about the MI which celeste began
<alourie> and I had an idea
<mac_v> ah ;)
<alourie> which may, sort of, resolve some of that
<alourie> but maybe I don't understand the design correctly, that's why I wanted to ask you guys
<mac_v> alourie: whats the idea? :)
<DanRabbit> okay, let me pull
<DanRabbit> mac_v: sexy :D
<mac_v> :)
<DanRabbit> I'd probably concentrate on icons that are going to be seen most in Netbook Launcher
<mac_v> aernt the app / places icons required only for 64px?
<DanRabbit> so, the categories, apps, folders
<mac_v> ;)
<DanRabbit> :)
<alourie> mac_v: ok, hold on :-)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: categories , awesome \o/ , that would be useful ... i was in process of making an icon for Software store , and system crashed and lost the whole thing , so categories are coming first ;)
<DanRabbit> aww...
<DanRabbit> I'm sorry :(
<mac_v> serves me right for doing "work" on a alpha ;p
<mac_v> an*
<alourie> mac_v: I thought, that there was so much talk about having or not having a launcher for specific app in MI, for example Evolution
<alourie> mac_v: with the idea, that 1. If it is running, then I will see notifications, and 2. if it is not running I could launch it
<alourie> but then
<alourie> mac_v: do I have to "run" an email client to know I have messages?
<alourie> mac_v: of course not
 * mac_v nods
<alourie> mac_v: so what if ayatana (or MI) specifically would implement sort of a system-wide library
<alourie> mac_v: for collecting my "messaging" information, and rely on it to "show" it to me in MI
<alourie> and then, if I decide, I will click on that - and an appropriate applciation will be launched
<alourie> thus, I separate messages from applications that handle them
<mac_v> its that similar to a blacklist?
<alourie> oh no
<mac_v> or whitelist ;p
<alourie> it like a generic infrastructure for collecting stuff that I care about
<alourie> for instance
<alourie> I use sort of a generic system tool to define my gmail account
<alourie> and couple of other email accounts
<alourie> and identica
<alourie> and twitter
<alourie> and jabber
<alourie> and anything else
<alourie> mac_v: when something happens there, MI will show a notification
<alourie> I click on gmail - a browser will open
<alourie> I click on email message - default email client will take care of that
<mac_v> hmm...
<alourie> twitter/identica - taken by gwibber/or any other client
<alourie> I just though that libraries that can do that already developed, just not glued together to infrastructure...
<mac_v> alourie: i think you should send this to the ML , so others can read about it too
<alourie> yea?
<mac_v> i dont seem to understand it fully :(
<alourie> hm
<alourie> that's what I said, maybe we're thinking about it from different perspectives?
<mac_v> from what you mention that is exactly what is planned for the MI , [thats what i understood]
<mac_v> MI displays the apps , clicking on them takes them to the main app
<mac_v> takes user*
<mac_v> you also mention a libraries , which is similar to the blcaklist/whitelist they are planning to offer
 * mac_v needs to get the upstream version and check out the progress ;)
<mac_v> alourie: if what if understood is different from what you mention , if you send it to the ML , others might understand better
<alourie> mac_v: so MI would display apps, .... this is not exactly what I had in mind. I though more about context, not apps
<alourie> so not "Evolution, Gwibber, ..." but "Email, Twitter, Identica"
<mac_v> alourie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu
<alourie> mac_v: thanks
<mac_v> oh you mean like that, 
<alourie> mac_v: yes
<mac_v> hmm... thats interesting :)
<alourie> disconnect the idea of notification from the application that handles the content
<mac_v> when you send a mail to ML dont forget to mention this> <alourie> so not "Evolution, Gwibber, ..." but "Email, Twitter, Identica
<alourie> ok :-)
<mac_v> alourie: so if i have 2 email clients?
<mac_v> right now i use both evol and thunderbird
<alourie> mac_v: but for different things, right?
<mac_v> no for mail , thunderbird since it supports webmail
<alourie> yes, for mail, but for different items, right?
<mac_v> yup
<mac_v> different acounts
<alourie> so it should be possible to set which app will handle specific item (or group of items) in MI
<alourie> what if I have different clients for twitter and identica? :-)
<alourie> the same thing
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> alourie: that would complicate the process a bit , but its a nice idea to rename the app names with generic names :)
<alourie> I agree that this may need a little bit of work on details, but now you already asking me questions that sort of "implementation" ones...I just thought about this as a generic concept. ...:-)
<DanRabbit> mac_v: I'm off to bed. Sorry I didn't get much done today :/
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ;)
<mac_v> alourie: sure the generic idea , is really nice , users dont need to necessarily know the name of the app
<mac_v> but just what they are doing
<alourie> mac_v: and majority of users probably won't have 2 email clients for different accounts either :-)
<mac_v> hehe ;p
<mac_v> alourie: you can post the idea on the wiki comments page too
<alourie> mac_v: is it getting read?
<mac_v> mpt does read and respond 
<alourie> I can probably do both
<alourie> ML and wiki
<mac_v> yeah
<alourie> so I will work a bit on the abstract of this. Should I try to work out technical details before posting, or leave it completely as a concept?
<mac_v> alourie: hmm... it would be better if you presented the idea without loop holes , else you'd get replies for others , like how i asked what if i'm running 2 apps ;p
<mac_v> from*
<alourie> mac_v: so, the more resolved issues upfront, the better .... :-)
<mac_v> yup 
<alourie> ok
<alourie> mac_v: thanks a lot, you helped me refine this and get the nurv to post to ML :-)
<mac_v> alourie: np :)
<tgpraveen> when will empathy get messaging indicator support?
<SiDi> tgpraveen: the day after karmic's release ? :p
<tgpraveen> :'(
<mac_v> DanRabbit: check the start-here... 
<DanRabbit> in unr?
<mac_v> yeah
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i did the 64 px , just check if it looks fine
<DanRabbit> yea, looks great :)
<DanRabbit> want to add it in, or want me to?
<mac_v> to humanity?
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> I'll do it, I'm already almost done doing it :p
<mac_v> i'm doing another icon now,... so maybe after a few more we coudl add them
<mac_v> DanRabbit: sure
<DanRabbit> be back in a bit :)
<mrooney> mac_v: ooh, I didn't know you did art?
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<mrooney> working on a specific set or project?
<mac_v> mrooney: right now , humanity
<mrooney> ah cool, I should check that out
<mrooney> I have heard good things
<mac_v> just did a couple of small icons for app store until kwwii ripped my idea for the main icon ;p
<mrooney> hm humanity 0.2 seems to have been uploaded with a .bzr directory
<mac_v> o.0
<mrooney> http://edge.launchpad.net/humanity/0.2/0.2/+download/humanity.tar.gz
<DanRabbit> mrooney: that was my bad!
<mrooney> bzr export :)
<DanRabbit> I'll put another release in just a little bit that will be fixed ;)
<DanRabbit> Yea, I didn't know about that
<DanRabbit> I got an email from a packager saying "Jesus H Christ you make my life hard!"
<mrooney> haha
<mrooney> because of the .bzr?
<DanRabbit> yea among other things :D
<mrooney> :)
<mac_v> lol
<DanRabbit> can somebody count to 3 and then ping me?
<SiDi> ping
<SiDi> DanRabbit: ^
<mac_v> DanRabbit: 
<DanRabbit> thanks :)
<DanRabbit> mac_v: have you pulled humanity with the new notification-im ?
 * mac_v checking
<SiDi> mrooney: i received some wxbanker bugmail a few days ago :D
<SiDi> How is 0.6 coming ? :P
<mac_v> DanRabbit: hehe , you made a symlink ;)
<DanRabbit> yep :D
<mac_v> nice
<DanRabbit> it might need a little bit of tweaking actually...
<DanRabbit> so, I might end up making a "new" icon
<mac_v> yeah
<DanRabbit> but for now
<DanRabbit> consistency :)
<mrooney> SiDi: pretty good, recurring transactions are working, a bunch of other improvements. Now I am trying to figure out how to use gtk theme colors for some things, but having trouble grabbing them
<mac_v> DanRabbit: is it really necessary to save the files as Plain svg?
<DanRabbit> It helps with file size
<mac_v> eeeh , i have to go to "save as" ;p
<DanRabbit> it may not seem like a big deal
<DanRabbit> but look at how small humanity is compared to other icon sets :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: is there a preference where i can change the default in inkscape?
<DanRabbit> I'm not sure
<DanRabbit> that would be helpful though, wouldn't it :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: yeah... everytime i'm having to save then again i have to cancel the close without saving 
<DanRabbit> Well, my usual save process is kind of long.
<DanRabbit> open new window, cut and paste in place in the new document (this shaves off little things like gradients we didn't use), save as plain svg
<mac_v> DanRabbit: yeah , i would expect ... you go out of your way to make all icons executables ;p
<DanRabbit> ah, they shouldn't be
<DanRabbit> I don't know why it does it :(
<DanRabbit> I always have to go back and change it
<SiDi> mrooney: wxwidgets is quite evil for that :/
<mrooney> haha yeah, I may have to send a mailing list email and see if there is a good way
<mac_v> DanRabbit: man redoing the icons in 64px is not as easy i thought it would be :(
<DanRabbit> it's very time consuming to scale icons
<DanRabbit> That's why a lot of them haven't been done
<mac_v> have to scale... align
<DanRabbit> they are still changing so much, I don't want to scale anything that isn't practically perfect :)
<mac_v> first figure out how it was done!
<mac_v> DanRabbit: sometimes you have grouped the objects , i have to break them and redo some of it ;p , almost like doing a new icon
<DanRabbit> I'm sorry :(
<mac_v> ;p
 * mac_v wonders if DanRabbit has OCD
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> why is that?
<mac_v> your save routine... ;p
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> I just want to shave off as much file size as possible :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: you could just use the vacuum defs
<DanRabbit> it doesn't get it all
<mac_v> yeah it needs to be done 2/3 times
<mac_v> DanRabbit: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/425935
<mac_v> hehe we have that covered \o/
<DanRabbit> :D
<DanRabbit> seriously, they should just hire us
<DanRabbit> so many bugs we fixed
<DanRabbit> so many papercuts
<DanRabbit> Humanity solves so many problems
<DanRabbit> I hate that they assign the priority "Wishlist"
<mac_v> !bot
<mac_v> !ping
<mac_v> bot is sleeping :(
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 425935 in network-manager "[Karmic] ugly ethernet Icon" [Wishlist,New] 
<ubot4> Hi! I'm #ayatana's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<ubot4> pong!
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> hella late :)
<DanRabbit> !bot you are so slow
<ubot4> DanRabbit: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DanRabbit> I know... I shouldn't assume
<DanRabbit> takes a lot of brainpower huh, !bot ?
 * DanRabbit likes to mess with the bott
<DanRabbit> bot*
<mac_v> !something
<ubot4> Factoid 'something' not found
<mac_v> !anything
<ubot4> So, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.
<mac_v> !helping humans
<ubot4> Factoid 'helping humans' not found
<mac_v> ah! they changed it  :(
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> !flying spaghetti monster
<ubot4> DanRabbit: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DanRabbit> !bot flying spaghetti monster is the one true god, creator of all that is good.
<ubot4> DanRabbit: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DanRabbit> ah, you can't teach this one :(
<mac_v> we'd probably get warned for bot abuse ;p
<mac_v> !bot abuse
<ubot4> Please don't play with the bots, or else... Also see !behaviour and !msgthebot
<mac_v> lol
<DanRabbit> !msgtgebot
<ubot4> Factoid 'msgtgebot' not found
<DanRabbit> oops
<DanRabbit> !msgthebot
<ubot4> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<DanRabbit> !behaviour
<ubot4> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
<DanRabbit> well, that's very business like...
<DanRabbit> !bot I like SuperSpace better than you. he's a lot smarter...
<ubot4> DanRabbit: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DanRabbit> alright, I'm done. back to work.
<mac_v> DanRabbit: what happened to UNR? i get it as not a branch
<DanRabbit> did you just do a bzr pull or bzr pull humanity-unr ?
<mac_v> pull
<DanRabbit> try the latter
<DanRabbit> that happened to me to
<DanRabbit> too*
<mac_v> nope same error :(
<mac_v> must be bzr is down
<DanRabbit> bummer
<mac_v>  \o/
<mac_v>  |.|
<mac_v>  /'\
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> ?
<DanRabbit> you win?
<mac_v> just fooling around untillbzr gets fixed
<mac_v>  \o_
<mac_v>  |.|
<mac_v>  /.|
#ayatana 2009-09-08
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: DanRabbit can you try UNR? something is wrong :/
<mac_v> i'm able to push the humanity but not -UNR
<mac_v> s/the/to
<mac_v> also how is the 64px folder? 
<mac_v> DanRabbit1: ^
<DanRabbit> mac_v: it's unpossible.
<mac_v>  unpossible? ;p
<DanRabbit> :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: not working for you too?
<DanRabbit> nope
<mac_v> hm..
<mac_v> DanRabbit: when making the notification im icon , you are going to start from scratch? or modify the existing user icon?
<DanRabbit> modify
<DanRabbit> just to look better on black
<mac_v> ah , thought so ,
<mac_v> DanRabbit: check the user groups
<mac_v> the human head in the back is better in that
<mac_v> its is a bit narrower than the one in front , that looks better
<DanRabbit> I see
<DanRabbit> I thought it was just missing the shadow, but I didn't take a close look
<DanRabbit> what the crap..
<DanRabbit> mac_v: we'll just not use a separate branch
<DanRabbit> it's easy enough to revert if we really don't like a change
<mac_v> huh?
<DanRabbit> humanity-unr is all tweaked out. So i'm just deleting it
<DanRabbit> I don't think we really need it.
<mac_v> ok
<mac_v> DanRabbit> humanity-unr is all tweaked out ? as in its the same as humanity now?
<DanRabbit> no as in FUBAR
<mac_v> hehe you already deleted it ;p
<DanRabbit> yep
<mac_v> ok pushing the icons to humanity... 
<DanRabbit> cool
<DanRabbit> going to bed now
<DanRabbit> goodnight :)
<mac_v> gn ;)
<alourie> good morning
 * MacSlow -> lunch
<mac_v> tedg: hi... in inkscape the default behavior is to save the images as "inkscape svg" where can we change the default to "plain svg" ?
<DanRabbit> mac_v: ping
<DanRabbit> hmm....
<DanRabbit> Anybody that likes Humanity icons: ping
<mac_v> DanRabbit: pong
<DanRabbit> ah
<DanRabbit> mac_v: http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/journal/27090214/
<DanRabbit> spread that around to anyone and everyone who you think would care :D
<DanRabbit> please
<mac_v> dashua: All the money in the world that I have (Checking, Savings, Credit Cards, Cash, Blood, Kidneys, Semen) comes out to about $100
<mac_v> DanRabbit: shouldnt it be $1000 ?
<mac_v> oops , sorry dashua 
<DanRabbit> nope
<mac_v> oh k
<DanRabbit> that's all I got :(
<mac_v>  :(
<mac_v> DanRabbit: did you add to gnome-look too?
<mac_v> that message?
<DanRabbit> I only have $40 left on my credit card. I just spent all my money on books
<DanRabbit> not yet
<DanRabbit> you think I should post in the forum?
<mac_v> DanRabbit: which forum?
<DanRabbit> on gnome-look
<SiDi_> DanRabbit: i only have -300 â¬ :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: if its allowed in the rules.. why not... thats the first place people look
<DanRabbit> sure
<mac_v> DanRabbit: send mail to sabdfl ;)
<DanRabbit> who is that?
<mac_v> Mark
<DanRabbit> oh
<DanRabbit> :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: well they are squeezing the hell outta your for the icons , why not :)
<mac_v> you*
<SiDi_> DanRabbit: you can ask for donations on your themes in gnome-look
<DanRabbit> Sidi_: yea, it's on there... Maybe I should put my message in the description...
<SiDi_> Yep
<SiDi_> dont you have a car insurance btw ? :/
<SiDi_> It's compulsory here
<DanRabbit> yea, but it doesn't cover things like that
<DanRabbit> it only covers liability for a collision and things of that sort
<DanRabbit> no natural disasters or acts of god
<SiDi_> Aw :/
<DanRabbit> I know :(
<mac_v> thats too bad!
<SiDi_> And you used your car for your job ? Your employer doesnt cover car problems ? :/
<DanRabbit> nope :(
<mac_v> DanRabbit: you should hav banged your car first :D
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> it was a hit and run!
<mac_v> :/
<DanRabbit> Sidi_: if you want to get technical about it, I have like -$900 USD
<DanRabbit> SiDi_: ^
<SiDi_> DanRabbit: ouch :D
<DanRabbit> All school books
<DanRabbit> and well supplies too
<SiDi_> school books ? :/
 * SiDi_ hasn't paid a school book for years :P
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> I'm 3rd semester in College
<DanRabbit> And an art major
<DanRabbit> so, it's not only books but Bristol board and pencils and expensive vinyl erasers and paints and ink
<DanRabbit> vellum and tracing paper
<DanRabbit> adhesive
<DanRabbit> exacto blades
<DanRabbit> brushes are ridiculously expensive
<DanRabbit> mac_v: do you think anyone would explode if I made the movie mime/category blue?
<mac_v> aw!
<mac_v> i just finished the places-video :(
<SiDi_> Go for it DanRabbit !
<mac_v> DanRabbit: actually i was wondering why it was not blue 
<SiDi_> Do everything in blue please
<DanRabbit> David told me no :(
<SiDi_> so we can just use your theme in xubuntu :d
<DanRabbit> haha, just use elementary then :)
<DanRabbit> it's almost exactly the same, but with some prettier app icons
<SiDi_> as far as the media icons have ONE colour that sounds very interesting to me
 * SiDi_ will poke knome
<mac_v> DanRabbit: SiDi_ is a *huge* humanity fan :D
<DanRabbit> haha
<mac_v> seriously
<SiDi_> yeh :P
<SiDi_> i just HATE the media icons :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: but funny he thought the icon set was done by kwwii ;)
<DanRabbit> really really?
<DanRabbit> SiDi_: are you talking devices or mimes or what?
<SiDi_> media-play, media-pause, media-stop
<SiDi_> i hate having different colors
<SiDi_> if they could just be white, that'd be perfect
<SiDi_> if they could be breathe's media icons, just a little smoother, that'd be more than perfect
<DanRabbit> okay, I'll look into it.
<SiDi_> Wee
 * SiDi_ offers a kitten to DanRabbit
<david-_> mac_v: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/KarmicFusa#(Fast)%20User%20Switching
<mac_v> david-_: huh?
<djsiegel> The XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR got set to $HOME/Download
<djsiegel> it should be $HOME/Downloads
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the media play/pause are all *huge* !
<djsiegel> I am trying to track down who dunnit
<mac_v> yeah why is it download ! :
<mac_v> djsiegel: it was rugby
<djsiegel> where does he hang out?
<mac_v> djsiegel: he is on #ubuntu-desktop
<djsiegel> thx
<DanRabbit> mac_v: easier to hit :D
<DanRabbit> djsiegel: http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/journal/27090214/
<DanRabbit> take pitty on me *cute puppy eyes*
<mac_v> DanRabbit: no! they are awkward :( , compare to the skip an rewind , they are bigger 
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> okay...
<DanRabbit> It is supposed to be bigger...
<DanRabbit> but...
<DanRabbit> I mean...
<DanRabbit> djsiegel: Also, would anyone die if the move mime/category was blue?
<DanRabbit> people are complaining about the black and white
<djsiegel> DanRabbit, hmm?
<djsiegel> blue what?
<DanRabbit> the little film strip action
<mac_v> DanRabbit: but thinking about it , film stips are black , right ?
<mac_v> strips*
<DanRabbit> unless they have an image on them
<DanRabbit> then they can be whatever we want
<DanRabbit> plus, black on black on black doesn't look too hot 
<mac_v> hmm... ;)
<DanRabbit> i mean.. unless you're into that.
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ok... done with the 64px places \o/ pushing
<DanRabbit> okay wait
<DanRabbit> 2 seconds
<DanRabbit> I'm about to push
<DanRabbit> :D
<mac_v> k...
<djsiegel> DanRabbit what about a brown-blue gradient
<mac_v> ping me when you are done :)
<djsiegel> that's more like real film
<DanRabbit> done
<DanRabbit> djsiegel: I'll experiment
<DanRabbit> I was even thinking the caramel-orange
<DanRabbit> I just don't want it to be too bright...
<mac_v> djsiegel: you asked this>  <djsiegel> I am trying to track down who dunnit ? of the xdg right?
<mac_v> for*
<djsiegel> yeah
<djsiegel> i gtg for abit though
<mac_v> ok
<mac_v> just confirming :)
<DanRabbit> mac_v: ping-a-ling
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ding-a-ling ;p
<DanRabbit> :D
<DanRabbit> push away
<mac_v> k
<mac_v> DanRabbit:  done... symlink it ;p
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the -pictures will look a *little* bit different , thought it could do with a bit of more detail at that size :)
<DanRabbit> cool
<DanRabbit> detail is good :)
<mac_v> several have some minor detail change , but it wont be easy to notice , the pictures is the one with an obvious differences :D
<mac_v> difference*
<DanRabbit> cool
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> doesn't look different to me
<DanRabbit> just big
<DanRabbit> so
<DanRabbit> that's good
<DanRabbit> :D
<mac_v> DanRabbit: hehe , actually the picture on the back is a bit to the left ;) showing the white
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> I'll have to double check
<DanRabbit> OH
<DanRabbit> okay
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i had to do some minor changes since i had to redo several aspects , just scaling doesnt work
<DanRabbit> I see it
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> so I just tried the video mime in orage
<DanRabbit> holy crap is that obnoxious...
<mac_v> orange! lololol
<DanRabbit> orange :D
<DanRabbit> whoops
<DanRabbit> okay
<DanRabbit> beginning the war on the video mime
<DanRabbit> mac_v: I just got an email from Neil saying that our panel icons still aren't bright enough :(
<mac_v> ;)
<DanRabbit> so, we do need to fork
<DanRabbit> to make it easier on their end, the main fork needs to be the one with the bright panel icons
<mac_v> DanRabbit: lmao! we just broke a fork ;p
<DanRabbit> I know...
<DanRabbit> how about this
<DanRabbit> we'll work with dark panel for now
<DanRabbit> and someday over the rainbow we'll care about people with a light panel
<DanRabbit> :D
<mac_v> great
<mac_v> DanRabbit: so humanity is not for ubuntu?
<mac_v> only unr?
<DanRabbit> yea
<DanRabbit> It's already in UNR
<DanRabbit> default
<mac_v> yeah noticed
<DanRabbit> oh crap Neil was here. Why not just IRC ?
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> I'm going to hold off on changing the folder icons for the mimes
<DanRabbit> because all of those ARE black and white.
<mac_v> yup
<mac_v> DanRabbit: eeek , just now noticed what you were complaining about dust!
<DanRabbit> for what part?
<mac_v> the title bar is horrible color! :(
<mac_v> it was not this way initially!
<DanRabbit> yea :/
<mac_v> DanRabbit: dust panel is #2C2B29 color right?
<DanRabbit> not sure
<DanRabbit> #2C2B29"
<DanRabbit> yep
<mac_v> DanRabbit: http://imagebin.ca/view/VacbWy.html , i think they are clear
<DanRabbit> Neil said he thought it was fine as well
<DanRabbit> but some others at Canonical are not happy
<DanRabbit> Not sure who
<mac_v> hmm...
<mac_v> if it gets too bright then it would look white!
<DanRabbit> That's what they want
<mac_v> hmm...
<mac_v> DanRabbit: a Bush fan.. eh! ;p
<DanRabbit> huh?
<mac_v> the war has ended
<DanRabbit> oh, I meant the war on the video mime
<mac_v> i know ;)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the video is voffset
<mac_v> no padding on top
<DanRabbit> I know, it's on purpose
<DanRabbit> All the mimes are going to change before the next release
<DanRabbit> I just need to do a couple more
<DanRabbit> it's to match the base of 3px that every other icon has
<mac_v> DanRabbit: hmm... but atleast for the 48px, a 1 px padding would be ideal 
<DanRabbit> mac_v: please don't make me redo all my mimes :(
<mac_v>  ;p
<DanRabbit> I don't see the harm. It will really only be present in the file browser right?
<mac_v> the 16px list?
<mac_v> how does it look for that?
<DanRabbit> what?
<mac_v> DanRabbit: the nautilus list view and the save as dialogues? do they have padding on their own or does the icon need padding
<DanRabbit> not sure, but those are not 48px :)
<mac_v> ;)
<mac_v> i was asking in general , if they have padding on their own , it really doesn matter then :)
<DanRabbit> Yea, I think they get a little bit of padding
<DanRabbit> if you can find the apport crash icon I will offer you one internets
<mac_v> DanRabbit: huh?
<DanRabbit> haha I found it first
<DanRabbit> nvm
<DanRabbit> hey i g2g
<DanRabbit> see ya
#ayatana 2009-09-09
<kholerabbi> is someone able to tell me whether software store will include software from user-added repositories (such as medibuntu)?
 * hyperair still finds the whole don't-hide-if-mouse-is-already-there behaviour of notify-osd very annoying
<hyperair> now i have to move my cursor a suitable distance in order to continue reading whatever i was before the previous bubble disappeared and was replaced by a new one
<bratsche> hyperair: Is that a recent change?
<hyperair> bratsche: hmm quite recent. came about the same time as the whole notification-in-the-middle-of-screen thing
<hyperair> so much for being unobstrusive
<bratsche> Yeah.
<bratsche> At any rate, I think that stuff is still just experimental.  I'm not sure if they've decided to keep it that way.
<bratsche> I hope not anyway, as I happen to agree. :)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: i'm now going to fix the 16px folders , let me know if you need any other icons done ;)
<alourie> hello
<alourie> mac_v: around?
<mac_v> hey :)
<alourie> mac_v: have you read my email?
<mac_v> yup
<mac_v> alourie: but seems no one else is interested :(
<alourie> mac_v: yea, seems so
<alourie> mac_v: and meanwhile I had another expansion on that idea
<alourie> mac_v: was the email clear enough?
<mac_v> i think it was clear enough , 
<mac_v> brb
 * mac_v reboots
<alourie> mac_v: welcome back
<mac_v> :)
<alourie> while I see that noone got interested, I had another idea
<alourie> (which goes well in the design I imagined for this)
 * mac_v nods
<alourie> do you remember the example of "channel" items I gave in the email?
<alourie> like email, twitter, etc?
<mac_v> yup
<alourie> so what if I don't call it email, twitter
<alourie> but call it 
<alourie> ubuntu, family, work?
<alourie> and everything else goes inside?
<mac_v> hrm... :/ thats is not nice, IMO
<alourie> why?
<mac_v> alourie: too much can go into each "ubuntu, family, work" then they would need subcategories
<alourie> true
<alourie> but I still think it may be interesting
<alourie> .' 5
<SiDi> anyone who has good knowledge of gtk around ?
 * MacSlow -> postal office
<mac_v> lol^
<alourie> mac_v: ^^ I won't trust postal offices from now on :-)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: found an awesome app > https://code.launchpad.net/icon-library
<mac_v> we can use it o check the symlinks and stuff and also how the icon looks in different backgrounds
<mac_v> to*
<mac_v> djsiegel___: hi...
<djsiegel___> hey mac_v 
<mac_v> djsiegel___: the .txt bug was discussed by pitti and seb, they have come up with a solution , might wanna check with them :)
<djsiegel___> yeah?
<mac_v> yup
<djsiegel___> where was it discussed?
<djsiegel___> what did they decide?
<mac_v> -desktop
<mac_v> <seb128> I think we could use application/x-executable and make sure that all script mimetype subclass it correctly
<mac_v> djsiegel___: ^
<djsiegel___> ooh, that sounds nice
<mac_v> djsiegel___: any hopes on fixing "100" papercuts by karmic?
<mac_v> we are only half way through :(
<djsiegel___> we are more than half way
<mac_v> ;p
<djsiegel___> I bet a good 75 are fixed
<djsiegel___> they just need merging
<djsiegel___> and updating
<DBO> Amaranth not here eh...
<mac_v> DBO: -desktop
<DBO> oh woops, wrong room
<DBO> Im kinda curious about what to do with compiz bugs
<DBO> the devel team is not working on C compiz anymore, and certainly we are not shipping compiz++
<mac_v> compiz is a bit stagnated for nearly a year :(
<mac_v> DBO: amaranth was mentioning the same thing
<DBO> yeah I know, I guess I can try my hand at patching this issue, but I dont know the compiz codebase all that well
<DBO> its a very very complex codebade with very poor organization
<mac_v> DBO: ping him in #ubuntu-desktop 
<DBO> i pinged him in #gnome-do
<mac_v> DBO: he might be sleeping now ;)
<DBO> that would be unfortunate
<tedg> mac_v: BTW, I don't think there's a way to change the default save format in Inkscape.  But, I don't think that's a bad thing, as it's the only format that keeps all the data Inkscape needs for a good experience.
<mac_v> tedg: i dont think its bad either , but people want smaller file sizes ! ;p
<mac_v> and it doesnt save much either!
<tedg> Oh, they can use svgz :)
<mac_v> tedg: for icons set ? does svgz work?
<mac_v> sets*
<tedg> I think so, I'm pretty sure nautilus thumbnails them.
<tedg> I haven't tried though.
<mac_v> will give it a try sometime :)
<tedg> And I wouldn't commit an svgz into a version control repository, kinda defeats the point as the diffs would suck.
<mac_v> oh.. , then that wont help :(
<mac_v> tedg: why isnt there a way to change the default option? usually apps remember the last saved format , right?
 * mac_v reboots
#ayatana 2009-09-10
<hyperair> mac_v: that's some extremely huge text you've sent in the email
<mac_v> hyperair: blame crappy yahoo ;p
<hyperair> hahah =)
<mac_v> had to dig that up from my old mails , hence had to send from yahoo ;)
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> use a desktop client damnit ;-)
<mac_v> hyperair: i do ,, BTW i use 2 ;p...  but  delete old mails \o/
<mac_v> thunderbird and evo ;p
<hyperair> evolution... it's a pretty awesome app, if it didn't lag like hell
<tedg> hyperair: The biggest difference from getting an SSD, Evolution doesn't suck :)
<mac_v> yeah , as of late it has become good , still lacks webmail support i guess , oor i dont knwo about it ;p
<mac_v> tedg: lol
<hyperair> thunderbird's webmail support sucks
<hyperair> even with the webmail plugin
<mac_v> but atleast something is better than nothing ;)
<hyperair> true that
<mac_v> BTW , i have no probs with evo  , i havent noticed any lags
<hyperair> one thing that seriously annoys me is the whole series of processes taht get started up with evolution
<hyperair> why does evolution need so goddamn many processes?!
<hyperair> and then something or other will hang
<hyperair> oh and did i mention that in the presence of a half-dead network, evolution won't even start up?
<tedg> Lots of reasons.  Responsiveness.  Stability.  Processes are good, and Linux makes the cheap.
<mac_v> hyperair: what so many process are you talking about?
<mac_v> the alarm notify is optional , the data server is not evolution btw
<hyperair> tedg: except that evolution screws up so badly that responsiveness is nil with a bad network
<tedg> I interviewed once with a company that was running 1 to 4 thousand processes for their app on Linux.  It was pretty sweet.
<hyperair> that's interesting
<tedg> hyperair: That's a different bug though, not the fact that it has so many processes.
<hyperair> point taken
<hyperair> another thing
<hyperair> one process for each evolution window is a *pain*
<hyperair> a huge pain
<mac_v> tedg: isnt it just 2 process to run evolution?
<hyperair> when you open a new evolution window, with evolution already running, you'd expect it to be instantaneous!
<hyperair> but every time you open a new window, it spawns a new process. i wouldn't care so much if the process initialized fast, but this takes AGES
<mac_v> oh that ...!
<tedg> mac_v: I've got four... and that's with no composers or anything.
<mac_v> tedg: the alarm notify is optional and the data server is not evolution it is just a stupid name they have chosen :(
<hyperair> oh and thunderbird 3.0 has a very sweet revamp of their authentification failed dialog (something evolution still doesnt have afaik)
<tedg> Yes, they do take a long time to init.  I'm unsure why that is.  It might be the CORBA stuff (which is going away next release)
<hyperair> when authentification fails for any reason (including a bad network), it asks me for my password again
<tedg> mac_v: I'm pretty sure EDS is in the same source package...
<hyperair> blargh, why can't it just use the same damn password and retry?!
<hyperair> tedg: no it isn't
<hyperair> oh yeah, eds is another pain in the ass, did i ever tell you that?
<tedg> Hmm, I didn't realize it moved.
<mac_v> tedg: nope... it is for "Evolution Data Server" is responsible for managing calendar and addressbook information. the name is misleading
<hyperair> it's caused my entire panel to hang countless times
 * tedg back when I was a kid...
<hyperair> i'd love to turn off the clock's calendar support. i really would
<mac_v> tedg: even when evolution is removed the eds will remain
<tedg> hyperair: If it was done right, and didn't hang, would you?
<hyperair> course not.
<hyperair> but the whole point is it *isn't*
<tedg> I'd rather fix it then :)
<hyperair> and oh god, who's brilliant idea was it to synchronously contact servers?!
<hyperair> wtf is the big idea with hanging on a bloody lousy wireless connection?!
<hyperair> glib's mainloop has a whole lot of async io stuff. why couldn't it have just used it?
<hyperair> well that felt good now that i've gotten all those rants out of me =.=
<tedg> hyperair: To be fair, when Evolution was written, it didn't :)
<tedg> hyperair: It has migrated over time.  It's just big and slow.
<hyperair> tedg: *groan*
<hyperair> tedg: then for the love of god, use *threads* damnit THREADS!
<hyperair> imo evolution needs a rewrite from ground-up.
<tedg> In the next release they're merging in Nokia's changes for the N900 (which uses EDS) so I'm expecting some good things :)
<hyperair> if it'd do things asynchronously and not hang stupidly, i would consider using evolution again.
<hyperair> i even had a evolution --force-shutdown shortcut bound in compiz back then, because of the frequent hangs
 * mac_v wonders if evolution has themes
<tedg> While I have a hard time defending Evolution because of things that annoy me, but I am optimistic about the 2.30 version.
<mac_v> the look is very bulky IMO
<mac_v> appearance rather
<hyperair> tedg: i'd only be optimistic if they got a bunch of developers who actually cared about having a crappy network
<tedg> hyperair: You don't think that people developing an app to work over a 3G connection care about crappy networks?
<ScottK> It was Evolution that got me on the way to being a confirmed KDE user.
<mac_v> tedg: i had a weird problem once , all the old mails from my pop account got re-downloaded when i triggered a manual receive , so i ended up receiving 1000 mails!
<tedg> Heh, Evolution got ScottK to devolve ;)
<mac_v> lol^
<tedg> I do have to say that A thing I can't spell (bad name) from KDE is pretty cool.  There was some talk about Evolution using it as a backend.  Probably will never happen, but it'd be cool to have just one free software project doing mail.
<ScottK> Akonadi
<ScottK> It's actually meant to be desktop agnostic and has no KDE dependencies
<tedg> Yeah, but I don't believe that anyone has written a GTK frontend yet. Atleast the last time I checked.
<ScottK> It was kept off FDO because there was something there that sounded very vaguely similar, but is in fact completely different.
<ScottK> I don't think so, but the GTK layer should be pretty thin.
<tedg> How did the licensing there work?  I imagine they linked to the OpenChange stuff, but doesn't that require the whole thing to be GPLv3?
<tedg> I thought KDE stuff had to be v2/v3.
<ScottK> That might be something Ayatana might consider for a future cycle as there is a lot we could do to improve user experience with it (also with a couchdb backend it could easily hook into UbuntuOne).
 * ScottK looks
<tedg> In my experience, mail is never as thin as you think it should be :)
<tedg> I think that there is already a CouchDB backend for Akonadi.  I think they sat down with the Akonadi hackers at GCDS and did it.
<tedg> Err, jono isn't here, but I thought he demoed it.
 * tedg is sad there won't be a desktop summit this year.
<ScottK> lgpl 2 or later
<ScottK> It was jcastro that demoed it.
<tedg> Hmm, interesting.  I wonder if they have an OpenChange plugin yet.  I know Evolution had to go through a relicensing pain to get that plugin.
<tedg> Who isn't here either :)  Man, we're "outside the community" in this room ;)
<hyperair> what's akonadi?
<hyperair> it sounds vaguely familiar
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> akonadi depends on qt
#ayatana 2009-09-11
 * MacSlow -> lunch
 * MacSlow -> capoeira
#ayatana 2009-09-12
<mac_v> kenvandine: the indicator session uses 16px icons for status... is there any way to force it to use 22px?
<tgpraveen> can someone using karmic tell whether notifications are shown in fullscreen apps or not. and notifications are  type  like pidgin someone comes online or gives a im msg
<mac_v> tgpraveen: ;) , you'v been asking , but no one seems to know the ans ;p
<mac_v> you have to ask macslow
<tgpraveen> mac_v: yeah unfortunately true
<tgpraveen> :-(
<mac_v> tgpraveen: during weekdays , he'll be here on UTC
<mac_v> workhours
<tgpraveen> k. will try my luck then
<tgpraveen> mac_v: thanks
<mac_v> tgpraveen: are you writing a mail the ayatana?
<mac_v> tgpraveen: when was your last mail
<mac_v> let me track it down and reply
<tgpraveen> mac_v: 2 days ago
<MDC1> DanRabbit, ping
<DanRabbit> MDC1: pong
<MDC1> I just spoke with david about an icon for "/", see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/301035/comments/33
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 301035 in hundredpapercuts "Place an Ubuntu icon/emblem on the system partition" [Low,Confirmed] 
<MDC1> do you think you can make one and i'll try it out
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> okay hold on
<MDC1> great! :=
<MDC1> :)
<DanRabbit> Are you using Humanity icons?
<DanRabbit> MDC1: if you're using Humanity icons, I would set it to "folder-system"
<MDC1> yeah
<MDC1> ahh
<DanRabbit> this was the intention of that icon in the first place :)
<DanRabbit> However, if the request is for something with the Ubuntu logo on it, I can whip something up
<MDC1> hmm.. seems i didn't run humanity - is there a pacakge for it yet?
<DanRabbit> sudo apt-get install humanity-icon-theme
<MDC1> thanks
<DanRabbit> no problem.
<MDC1> hmm.. folder-system - not sure that one is that good...
<DanRabbit> I'm assuming you're probably looking for a Hard Disk with the ubuntu logo on it right?
<MDC1> yep ;-)
<DanRabbit> yea..
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> that's not going to be a pretty icon :/
<DanRabbit> and it'll mean pretty much nothing to a user
<MDC1> would an emblem be better?
<DanRabbit> well
<DanRabbit> in my honest opinion
<DanRabbit> I would use the gear
<MDC1> harddisk-system?
<DanRabbit> it's consistently used in Humanity to mean "System"
<DanRabbit> Let me see how that looks...
<DanRabbit> (i'm still biased to the folder with the gear..)
<MDC1> hehe and i meant harddrive-system
<MDC1> the gnome-dev-media with a ubuntu logo then?
<MDC1> like the usb?
<DanRabbit> ah no, the harddisk is pretty ugly..
<DanRabbit> okay...
<MDC1> harddrives aint pretty in reality either ;-)
<DanRabbit> the removable drive looks better
<DanRabbit> okay so I pushed two icons to bzr
<DanRabbit> drive-ubuntu
<DanRabbit> and folder-ubuntu
<MDC1> hmmm... 
<DanRabbit> so bzr branch lp:humanity
<MDC1> what name should i put in the code?
<DanRabbit> whichever one you like better :)
<DanRabbit> you'll probably like drive-ubuntu more
<MDC1> upstream will kill me
<DanRabbit> haha
<DanRabbit> why?
<MDC1> i don't think they like the word ubuntu in a patch ;-)
<DanRabbit> ah
<MDC1> it has to be drive-filesystem or drive-dist or something..
<DanRabbit> we're going for more distro agnostic :)
<DanRabbit> okay :D
<DanRabbit> I'll do drive-distro
<MDC1> well.. the best would be to get the patch upstream
<DanRabbit> in all honesty, for upstream I would not accept
<MDC1> drive-harddisk-distro
<DanRabbit> I'd say that the filesystem is more of a folder than anything
<MDC1> but it would look strange in the computer view to see a folder..
<MDC1> harddisk = techy thing
<MDC1> == don't touch
<DanRabbit> unless you have more than one harddisk
<MDC1> harddisk + gear => you'll mess things up ;)
<DanRabbit> yea but it looks ugly :D
<MDC1> which is why we should put the ubuntu logo on system disk
<DanRabbit> maybe we should think about the naming for a second
<DanRabbit> we are labeling the drive that is for the / partition right?
<MDC1> if we use drive-harddisk-whatever i can use the g_themed_icon_fallback_... function and be very happy :-D
<MDC1> yep
<DanRabbit> so maybe it should be drive-harddisk-root
<MDC1> fine with me
<DanRabbit> okay it's pushed up
<DanRabbit> you can branch whenevr
<MDC1> revision 230?
<DanRabbit> i beleive so
<MDC1> i don't do bzr so.. 
<DanRabbit> hehe
<MDC1> i'll see if i can find the icon ;)
<DanRabbit> it's in Humanity/devices/48
<MDC1> what's the name?
<DanRabbit> drive-harddisk-root
<MDC1> not there.. is it bzr update to update?
<DanRabbit> bzr pull lp:humanity
<DanRabbit> it should be revision 234
<DanRabbit> that would be convenient for it to be just 'bzr update'
<MDC1> hmm.. it still says i'm on 230
<MDC1> downloading it all again
<DanRabbit> hmm :/
<MDC1> ok, now i'm on 234 :)
<MDC1> looks good
<MDC1> compiling gvfs...
<MDC1> crap.. this bug already had a patch and icon names.. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=586488
<ubot4> Gnome bug 586488 in general "attach distributor-logo as the filesystem icon" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] 
<MDC1> +  const char *icon_names[] = {"distributor-logo", "start-here", "drive-harddisk", NULL}; 
<DanRabbit> haha
<MDC1> well... at least the icon is ready now :)
<DanRabbit> I would argue ours is a little better :)
<MDC1> me too 
<DanRabbit> okay, well I have to go to work now
<DanRabbit> bye 
<MDC1> sure, thanks, bye
#ayatana 2009-09-13
<SiDi> DanRabbit: hi there
<SiDi> is there a place to request new icons for elementary / humanity ?
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ping ;)
<DanRabbit> SiDi: file a bug report and I'll mark it as a wishlist item
<hyperair> http://pastebin.com/f79a4bdec <-- notify-osd's been sefaulting much eh..
<SiDi> DanRabbit: does humanity have icons for the Music / Video / Downloads / etc folders ?
<MDC1> SiDi, looking in the places/48 it looks like music, video, downloads is all there
<MDC1> SiDi, bzr branch lp:humanity
<SiDi> MDC1: okey ty
<mac_v> does anyone know who maintains xchat ,thunderbird ?
<mac_v> trying to get in patches for MI
<kholerabbi> The notification icons for ubuntuone are blurry (Bug #423034 and Bug #415681). It would be a pity to ship karmic with a new storage service and shiny notifications but have use blurry icons. Maybe someone wants to look into that?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 423034 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One icon in the new notification service in Ubuntu does not scale and looks blurred" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423034
<ubot4> kholerabbi: Bug 415681 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/415681 is private
#ayatana 2010-09-13
<RAOF> Urfh.  SoundMenu integration in Banshee has broken because libindicate-cil bumped assembly version.
<MickStep> Does the "custom-time-format" key do anything in indicator-datetime? Because I changed it to be 24hr format using:
<MickStep> gsettings set org.ayatana.indicator.datetime custom-time-format "'%k:%M'"
<MickStep> to no effect.
<MickStep> nevermind I just realised my mistake
<lucidfox> What is the "official" way to ship light and dark monochrome icons with an application?
<lucidfox> a third-party one, I mean, not in the default Ubuntu install
<kklimonda> lucidfox: ship them in ubuntu-mono-dark and ubuntu-light-dark? that's what shutter does
<lucidfox> except there's no guarantee that the user will be using one of those themes
<kklimonda> lucidfox: indeed
<kklimonda> lucidfox: if you ship both icons in one set there is no way of telling which one should be loaded.
<lucidfox> hmm, you give me an idea
<lucidfox> perhaps the application could dynamically determine if the panel is-- no, that way darkness lies
<kklimonda> :)
<kklimonda> Gtk+ will have a native support for symbolic icons and then the problem will go away.
<kklimonda> Gtk+ 3*
<lucidfox> Symbolic icons?
<ScottK> tedg: Do we want Inscape 0.48.0 in Maverick?  Please comment in Bug 628048.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 628048 in inkscape (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please merge inkscape (universe) with version 0.48.0-1 from Debian experimental main (affected: 3, heat: 26)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628048
<tedg> ScottK, Yes, will do.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<kklimonda> lucidfox: it's mainstream's way of saying that we suck ;)
<kklimonda> lucidfox: j/k - it's their approach to use simple icons in panel
<lucidfox> so wait
<lucidfox> GTK3 will have its own functional equivalent of app indicators?
<tedg> ScottK, Sorry about that, I thought someone had been working on getting it in after we released.  I didn't follow up :(
<tedg> ScottK, Thanks for pinging me.
<kklimonda> no, just a support for symbolic icons - gnome-shell developers also use them or at least planning on doing that
<ScottK> tedg: No problem.  I know if you vouch for it, any problems will get addressed.
<tedg> lucidfox, And hopefully we'll support the symbolic icons in the next release of the indicators.   I really wanted to this cycle but ran out of time :(
<lucidfox> What *are* symbolic icons? -_-
 * ScottK thought icons were symbolic enough on their own.
<tedg> ScottK, Yes.  Though, I'd love to redo the packaging on it sometime, it's very... old.  If you find someone asking about how they can help (potential MOTU or something) have them ping me.
<tedg> lucidfox, Basically it means that some of the colors in the SVG have symbolic names (alert) instead of color values.  So the colors themselves are then defined by the theme, and replaced as the SVG is loaded.
<tedg> lucidfox, Hopefully it'll mean you can make one icon for a variety of themes instead of tons with one color different.
<lucidfox> Ooh, neat
<lucidfox> tedg, since, as I understand, you're the main developer of libappindicator...
<lucidfox> What should I do if I want to add an indicator to a Qt application?
<tedg> lucidfox, You should be able to use their standard KNSI interface.  That's what libappindicator is based on.
<tedg> agateau, ^
<lucidfox> That's in kdelibs
<tedg> Oops, I think it's KSNI not KNSI.
<lucidfox> I'm talking plain Qt -_-
<agateau> lucidfox: right now there is no easy solution :/
<agateau> lucidfox: but Qt devs want to add native support for appindicator in Qt itself
<lucidfox> Ooh, neat
<agateau> lucidfox: I know Quassel devs implemented ksni support themselves
<lucidfox> :o
<agateau> lucidfox: you might find useful code there
<lucidfox> sounds like I might want to merge that into my Q-XDG library
<lucidfox> along with Quassel's implementation of XDG notifications
<agateau> lucidfox: oh you are the one who wrote the icon theme for Qt lib?
<bratsche> How would that work, in a cross-platform sense, for Qt to add libappindicator support?
<bratsche> I thought all the Qt API is supposed to basically work on the different platforms.
<agateau> bratsche: they want their appindicator app to be a platform specific plugin
<bratsche> Oh okay.
<agateau> bratsche: Qt provides a class named QSystemTrayIcon
<bratsche> Cool, was just curious.
<agateau> bratsche: and they want the class to use appindicator when available
<bratsche> Nice.
<lucidfox> What?!
<agateau> bratsche: but it's tricky because they don't want qtgui to depend on qtdbus...
<lucidfox> How... would... that... work.
<lucidfox> the indicator API is more restricted than tray icon APIs
<agateau> lucidfox: true, but not that much
<agateau> lucidfox: at least, the kde implementation
<agateau> lucidfox: is not as limited as the ubuntu gnome one
<bratsche> htorque around?
<htorque> yes
<lucidfox> agateu> Does it allow both left and right clicks?
<bratsche> htorque: Were you posting some issues with appmenu-gtk showing erroneous menus?
<agateau> lucidfox: it does
<lucidfox> :(
<lucidfox> defeats the point that Ayatana is trying to achieve, I think
<agateau> lucidfox: it predates ayatana trying to achieve a point
<lucidfox> hehe
<bratsche> Oh wait, it was Omer Akram.
<htorque> bratsche, ok :)
<bratsche> Sorry.
<agateau> lucidfox: but I agree left and right click distinction is not a good idea
<lucidfox> Hmm... I wonder if upstream GNOME could just port GtkStatusIcon to this indicator thing
<lucidfox> while allowing unrestricted use of the old API... probably not, though
<lucidfox> it allows way too much
<agateau> I have no idea there
 * agateau works on kde
<bratsche> One of the main issues is that upstream Gnome doesn't really want to depend upon packages from Launchpad.
<bratsche> They tend to prefer things to be hosted on git.gnome.org or git.freedesktop.org
<kklimonda> bratsche: libindicator wouldn't be the first canonical project that is being hosted on git.gnome.org
<kklimonda> couchdb-glib's main repository is already there.
<kklimonda> I'd say that if there is a chance of getting indicator into upstream Gtk+ that would be worth the effort of moving development there :)
<lucidfox> I agree fully
<bratsche> Another issue that upstream has is that we require copyright assignment on our modules.
<bratsche> kklimonda, lucidfox: I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just pointing out the reasons why it's difficult to do, and probably won't happen soon.
<lucidfox> By the way, I'm really liking the changes to GTK3 so far
<bratsche> Although Evolution was originally also copyright-assignment, and that didn't stop it from being in Gnome.
<kklimonda> bratsche: copyright assignment also can be worked around - Intel has a similar one for clutter. I'm not saying it's easy to do -especially that gtk+ devs have some objections to code itself but it's worth it.
<lucidfox> They removed all GDK drawing primitives in favor of Cairo
<bratsche> Yeah, Company has been working on that.  Awesome stuff.
<lucidfox> which means, ironically, that GDK no longer means GIMP Drawing Kit
<lucidfox> but then it never meant that :)
<lucidfox> really, that is
<lucidfox> brasche, I take it you're intimately familiar with upstream GTK development? Because I have a few questions I've gathered after observing it from the outside
<pavolzetor> Hallo, I need help with libindicate and icons
<jcastro> hi klattimer
<klattimer> hi jcastro hows it going
<jcastro> I hear you've got more hours than I thought
<jcastro> do you still have bugs in your queue?
<klattimer> only a few
<jcastro> ok
<klattimer> I've been trawling through the last week of bugmail today
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> let me check the list
<klattimer> there's a few things which have gone from my bug queue and I think there are still pending issues
<klattimer> so I'm looking to poke those a bit
<klattimer> you might want to assign me some new high prior stuff if you like
<jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~karl-qdh/+assignedbugs
<jcastro> is this it?
<jcastro> tedg: kenvandine: what's up with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/558841
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 21, heat: 132)" [Low,Triaged]
<jcastro> klattimer: ah, on that one you forgot to assign it to the desktop team so they can ship it
<klattimer> jcastro: I haven't been able to assign to the desktop team for some time
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> not sure what's gone wrong
<jcastro> oh ok, no worries
<klattimer> recently I've just poked seb about it
<klattimer> that one might have slipped the net
<jcastro> ok, manual poking is always better anyway
<jcastro> what's the deal with this g-p-m leak? Maybe that would be a good one to finish off
<klattimer> yeah was thinking of giving it a poke tomorrow and retesting to see if it still exists
<jcastro> k
<jcastro> ok let's do this
<jcastro> keep pinging seb and kenvandine about the bt bug
<jcastro> finish off the keyboard indicators, since those are really visible
<jcastro> and then look at g-p-m
<klattimer> k
<jcastro> the kb indicator looks great btw
<jcastro> well, other than the icon bug thing
<jcastro> but whatever. :)
<tedg> jcastro, I think that ayan was looking at that one.
<tedg> jcastro, It seems to be a GTK thing.  He's got a test program that can cause it in GTK.
<pavolzetor> could you help ome?
<klattimer> icon bug?
<klattimer> which icon bug?
<jcastro> klattimer: the 2 icons thing?
<pavolzetor> I don't know if it is bug
<tedg> jcastro, The GPM one (if I wasn't clear)
<klattimer> oh, the ibus and gsm showing the keyboards?
<pavolzetor> I wanna add icon to message.im
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ayatana-ubuntu/+bug/620331
<pavolzetor> but program ends with segfault
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 620331 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "please drop icon from keyboard indicator (affected: 3, heat: 200)" [Low,In progress]
<klattimer> yeah, well fixable with flags
<klattimer> bug we need flags which match mpt's style requirements
<jcastro> we're waaay past Beta
<klattimer> yeah I know
<jcastro> I doubt we'll be getting flags any time soon
<mpt> I don't have flag style requirements
<tedg> pavolzetor, Can you pastebin the code that's setting the icon?
<klattimer> well, for next cycle I'll be merging ibus and kb indicator into a single indicator and capplet
<mpt> oh cool
<klattimer> mpt you do, "two letters in a box"
<klattimer> that's teh flags
<klattimer> "flags" are just what they're called in the code
<mpt> aha
<jcastro> ok so what do we do with this bug for Maverick
<klattimer> well, not a great deal unfortunately
<jcastro> can we turn the icon off?
<klattimer> we could drop the icon, but mpt seemed against that
<jcastro> ok
<klattimer> i.e. drop the icon, show only the label
<jcastro> mpt: let's make a decision now, if we're going to defer I'd like to get him working on things we can fix
<klattimer> with the showFlags gconf key turned on, only an icon is shown, but we need flags in order to do that
<pavolzetor> shit, where can I get support for libindicate?
<mpt> I'm not against it UI-wise as a temporary thing, it would just require a temporary API change just for that, which would be weird
<klattimer> I suppose it's how tedg feels about the api change
<tedg> klattimer, There shouldn't be a change required for icon only...
<tedg> klattimer, Or do you mean icon and radio on the menu item?
<klattimer> I mean hiding the icon from the indicator and only showing a label
<mpt> tedg, they're talking about text-only titles
<mpt> ... temporarily
<tedg> mpt, klattimer, Ah.  Hmm, not sure where that's enforced.
<tedg> I don't care that much, but it just means that on KDE it won't work at all.
<tedg> As they don't have the label.
<klattimer> hmm, well that puts us in a bit of a catch 22
<mpt> I'm surprised you're still considering this 2.5 weeks after UI freeze.
<klattimer> yeah, it's a bit late
<klattimer> but we'd more or less decided just to leave it icon+label for now anyway
<klattimer> there's not so much we can do about it in the short term
<mpt> Set it to Natty and move on.
<klattimer> if we get flags drawn, switching the gconf key and doing that would solve it
<tedg> +1
<klattimer> for natty I'll be merging ibus+kb indicator anyway
<klattimer> so we'll only have one icon for both
<tedg> ronoc, ping
<ronoc> tedg, pong
<vish> gah! appmenu doesnt notice when the app has frozen :/
<vish> banshee just frozen but still the appmenu shows the menu! while it does not have any effect on banshee though :(  cant even effect a force quit by hitting the close buttons..
<vish> had to unmaximize and then do a force quit.
<htorque> hello, if there are some missing-icons icons in an appmenu, should this be reported (per application)?
<bratsche> htorque: Yeah, I would report them per-application for now.
<htorque> bratsche, thanks! actually those are icons, that are only shown when having menus_have_icons enabled, so after reading the comment from mpt on bug 608584 i'm not sure what to do
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 608584 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "Should outdent icons into the left gutter (affected: 2, heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608584
#ayatana 2010-09-14
<htorque> mpt, i have the 'menus_have_icons' gconf key enabled on my installation and am now seeing some appmenus with "missing-icon" icons. after reading your comment on bug 608584, i'm no longer sure if this is something to report?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 608584 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "Should outdent icons into the left gutter (affected: 2, heat: 14)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608584
<mpt> htorque, sure, as long as that option exists, it shouldn't return missing-icon images
<htorque> mpt, ok, thanks!
<mpt> np
<sense> good afternoon
<bilalakhtar> good evening sense !
<sense> hi bilalakhtar!
<kenvandine> klattimer, ping
<klattimer> hey sup?
<kenvandine> hey klattimer, i have a vino bug for you to look at, just talked to jcastro about it
<kenvandine> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/628967
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 628967 in vino (Ubuntu Maverick) "vino crashes on desktop sharing with Empathy (affected: 2, heat: 16)" [High,Triaged]
<klattimer> oh was meaning to ask you to get this fix pushed out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/558841
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 21, heat: 132)" [Low,Triaged]
<kenvandine> i'll look
<kenvandine> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/vino/ubuntu
<kenvandine> klattimer, i pushed enough of a fix that fixes the crasher there
<kenvandine> but there is one piece i didn't get to yet
<klattimer> right
<klattimer> what's that?
<kenvandine> when it builds the menu for appmenu
<kenvandine> it does a lookup for the contact alias
<kenvandine> but the server seems to be null at that point
<kenvandine> so can't do that lookup
<kenvandine> the statusicon code isn't helpful there as a reference, because it looks up the alias when you activate the menu
<kenvandine> which is much later
<kenvandine> so for now, if it is NULL, the menu just says "Disconnect"
<kenvandine> instead of "Disconnect Jorge"
<kenvandine> so we either need to refactor a bit so we build the menu later in the process, or figure out a way to get that server property
<kenvandine> note that his worked as is in 2.28
<kenvandine> but there has been some refactoring in vino since then..
<kenvandine> so i mostly ported to the new vino, just didn't get this part finished
<kenvandine> klattimer, completely unrelated, in my testing vino or vinagre is broken as well... even without our appindicator patch i can't get a client to talk to a server in maverick
<kenvandine> so don't be surprised if that part fails :)
<klattimer> kenvandine: I found a bunch of race conditions in vino which I didn't want to get too involved with
<klattimer> this causes all kinds of difficulties
<klattimer> I filed one bug upstream for it
<klattimer> but that was only one of a few potential problems, some of which I couldn't actually get to prove while the first was in the way
<kenvandine> klattimer, so what about bug 558841 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 558841 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Lucid) "bluetooth "devices" menu item not working in bluetooth indicator (affected: 21, heat: 132)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/558841
<klattimer> it just needs this simple fix pushing up
<kenvandine> that patch has never been pushed?
<kenvandine> wow
<klattimer> again with bluetooth we have some race conditions, so hiding the menu item separately causes trouble, instead I just desensitise/sensitise it when appropriate
<klattimer> and it worked much better in testing
<klattimer> the item is still hidden by something else though
<klattimer> as far as I could see
<klattimer> it's a bit sketchy inside of bluetooth :/
<kenvandine> klattimer, ok, gnome-bluetooth was just updated yesterday
<kenvandine> i am building it to test against latest now
<klattimer> gah :/
<kenvandine> will upload after i test it
<kenvandine> thx!
<klattimer> np
<kenvandine> yuck... patch failed
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> is it bad?
<kenvandine> nah... i think i have it cleaned up
<kenvandine> klattimer, although it might be good for you to look at my updated patch
<klattimer> link me
<kenvandine> specifically, in update_discoverability
<kenvandine> they added this
<kenvandine>         if (iter == NULL) {
<kenvandine>                 discover_lock = FALSE;
<kenvandine> the discover_lock = FALSE
 * kenvandine pushes the patch
<klattimer> hmm, that seems ok
<htorque> tedg, i think we're talking past each other at bug 63321. all i'm saying is, that you'll end up with two menus when running an application with sudo: the local one and the global fallback menu.
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/63321)
<htorque> bug 633211
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 633211 in Application Menu Indicator "Fallback menus shown for windows on the blacklist (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/633211
<htorque> if that's how it's supposed to be, i'll keep quiet. ;-)
<kenvandine> lp:~ken-vandine/gnome-bluetooth/ubuntu
<kenvandine> klattimer, i think it is
<tedg> htorque, It's not ideal, but it's not easily fixable.  And honestly, sudo should die, so I'm not willing to invest much in it.
<technoviking> iainfarrell: ping
<iainfarrell> hi technoviking
<technoviking> iainfarrell: I was wondering if I could get those graphic I need for the forums theme. the dotted background and the pictographs (to make icons and ranks)
<technoviking> iainfarrell: also made a couple of test theme at http://www.mikesplanet.net/forums/, try out ubuntu2 and dark Auguine in the bottom left hand corner
<technoviking> would love some design team feedback:)
<htorque> tedg, ok, that's fine by me. :-) i just thought the sudo double menus could be fixed the same way as those blacklisted applications.
<kenvandine> klattimer, so how do i test this bluetooth patch?
<klattimer> kenvandine: turn bluetooth off and on
<klattimer> then see if visible is still shown in the menu
<klattimer> it should hide when off, and show when on
 * kenvandine wonders how to do that
<kenvandine> used to be able to do that from that menu
<klattimer> there should be turn bluetooth on/off in the menu
<kenvandine> there isn't
<klattimer> gah :/
<klattimer> this is a different bluetooth bug that you're seeing now
<kenvandine> hasn't been for a while
<klattimer> this happens to me sometimes
<klattimer> :/
 * kenvandine uses rfkill
<kenvandine> ok, that works
<kenvandine> well
<kenvandine> blocking it makes it go away...
<iainfarrell> technoviking: cool, thanks for sharing
<kenvandine> i guess that isn't the right test
<iainfarrell> I'm going to find a suitable person to talk to you
<iainfarrell> as I'm stacked
<iainfarrell> and we can find someone who can provide proper feedback
<technoviking> iainfarrell: thanks, sorry to bug you
<iainfarrell> technoviking: nw
<kenvandine> klattimer, can you build the package and test it?
<kenvandine> verify it still works as expected, and i'll upload it
<klattimer> kenvandine: hang on I'll see if my bluetooth is working
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> mine is working... i just can't turn it off in the menu :)
<klattimer> well not being able to turn it on/off in the menu is a problem
<klattimer> because it appears that's what the decision to show the visible/invisible is based on
<klattimer> kenvandine: where can I get your updated patch from?
<klattimer> and the current source package?
<klattimer> I'm worried how badly my bluetooth is working overall
<klattimer> I only tested this patch once weeks ago
<klattimer> :/
<kenvandine> lp:~ken-vandine/gnome-bluetooth/ubuntu
<klattimer> kenvandine: building now
<klattimer> kenvandine: it says my computer has no bluetooth adapters present
<klattimer> :/
<kenvandine> :/
<vish> kenvandine: are you pushing a ubuntu-mono update anytime soon?
<kenvandine> vish, i don't think so
<vish> u-m probably for the nm icons ivanka was mentioning..
<kenvandine> oh, i hadn't heard
<vish> ah.. k :)
<ivanka> DanRabbit: can you give us an update on this ^
<vish> kenvandine: well , i guess you'd hear pretty soon.. but when you do , humanity would also need a similar update.. :D
<DanRabbit> ivanka: ah yes I posted a mail to our thread before saying I pushed the icons to ubuntu-mono :p
<kenvandine> actually i think i will need to do an ubuntu-mono anyway, i think we are renaming sound_icon to sound-icon
<vish> kenvandine: cool! usually seb-128  does humanity updates..  i guessed it would be easier for you , since it would be the same update ;)
<ivanka> kenvandine: I forwarded you the email thread
<ivanka> kenvandine: apologies if proper processes haven't been followed.
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> ivanka, is there a bug filed for that?
<ivanka> kenvandine: I emailed the team to ask them to deal with it as I found it on the train. DanRabbit can you file a bug if there isn't one already please?
<DanRabbit> ivanka: yes m'am
<ivanka> DanRabbit:  thanks!
<kenvandine> i am mostly wondering if this is something we consider a bug/regression or if it we need  a UIF exception
<ivanka> kenvandine: this is a bug
<kenvandine> i think currently it is a regression
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> and are the icon we need ready?
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: a work-around has been pushed to ubuntu-mono
<DanRabbit> ivanka: what should I call this bug? "broadband icon shows ugly tower and little letters" ? :p
<ivanka> DanRabbit: how about: broadband icons lacks clarity
<DanRabbit> ivanka: ty
<kenvandine> DanRabbit, so should i upload the current work around? or are proper icons coming in time?
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mono/+bug/638276 to be marked fix released when you upload :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 638276 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu) "broadband icon lacks clarity (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<DanRabbit> ivanka, kenvandine: I'm not sure if we are going to take further action to change the code in nm or.. ?
<kenvandine> DanRabbit, where did you push that branch?
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: lp:~darklight-team/darklight/ubuntu-mono
<kenvandine> oh... hummm
<kenvandine> is that a related branch?
<kenvandine> different project
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: that's the branch we had been working from for Lucid
<kenvandine> bzr says it isn't a branch
<kenvandine> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~darklight-team/darklight/ubuntu-mono/".
<kenvandine> lp:ubuntu-mono
<kenvandine> is what we are using in maverick
<DanRabbit> oh, I see, I wonder if I have perms for that branch
<kenvandine> you can just create your own, branch from lp:ubuntu-mono and push to your own branch
<kenvandine> then i can merge
<DanRabbit> okay, give me a second
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: it looks like someone already pushed it to lp:ubuntu-mono
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> then it is in maverick already :)
<DanRabbit> lol
<vish> DanRabbit: already in lp:u-m?  i cant see it ..
<DanRabbit> vish: check 22px status
<DanRabbit> the tower icon is blank
<vish> odd , i dont have that icon 0.o
<vish> DanRabbit: are you sure you pushed it?
<DanRabbit> vish: when I pulled it was already there :p
<vish> DanRabbit: werid , if it was in already then ivanka shouldnt have had the bug..
<vish> weird*
<DanRabbit> right?
<DanRabbit> well let me double check
<DanRabbit> vish: try pulling ubuntu-mono and check for nm-wwan-tower
<vish> DanRabbit: nope.. i dont see it anywhere.. are you sure it is lp:ubuntu-mono  ?
<vish> there are atleast 2-3 branches..
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> okay nvm.. branched again and they magically weren't there
<kenvandine> :)
<DanRabbit> kenvandine: okay should be pushed now :p
<kenvandine> got it
<kenvandine> thx
<vish> kenvandine: similarly for humanity lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release   :)
<kenvandine> vish, can that fall under the same bug?
<vish> yup..
<kenvandine> mind added a "affects" for that?
<vish> already done :)
<kenvandine> thx
<vish> kenvandine: thanks.. :)
<vish> kenvandine: incase you had pulled immediately after i gave you the branch.. i had the day wrong in the changelog , fixed that in the next commit a few mins later.. but nevermind if you havent pulled yet:)
<kenvandine> i got the day right one :)
<kenvandine> but not the mail_id
<kenvandine> :)
<vish> ah! :)
<vish> .. who will be uploading the example content?
<vish> kenvandine: sheesh, people and their "sources"! ;p
<kenvandine>  :)
#ayatana 2010-09-15
<JanCBorchardt> vish, is there already a bug, blueprint or similar poking stick for Launchpad to not send out mails to group members when the bug they are subscribed to through a project has been marked as invalid for it? (tl;dr hundredpapercuts ;)
<JanCBorchardt> vish, darn, itâs always that I _really_ think about it only when I already sent the message.
<ScottK> JanCBorchardt: Yes.
<ScottK> #launchpad is a better channel for such a question though.
<klattimer> hey, I'm having a problem with updates in maverick
<klattimer> the ubuntu-desktop package wants to remove Xorg
<lucidfox> o_O
<klattimer> :/ thinking this is a little weird
<lucidfox> Could you pastebin the exact output of apt-get?
<klattimer> well, ubuntu-desktop wants to remove itself too for some reason
<klattimer> lucidfox sure, I'm just updating everything else and doing some installs
<klattimer> soon as I've done that I'll provide a paste of the stuff
<klattimer> lucidfox: nevermind, on the command line the packages are being held back
<klattimer> I was using synaptic to update while I was doing some installs
<lucidfox> bug #541756 - OK to close this?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 541756 in liferea (Ubuntu) "liferea needs a monochrome icon (affected: 5, heat: 28)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541756
<lucidfox> Monochrome icons are basically a feature of Ubuntu indicators, and Liferea uses the messaging indicator
<vish> lucidfox: i'd suggest you wait for symbolic icons to land.. app cannot add icons for two different themes
<vish> lucidfox: afaik, that would be in gnome3
<Tiibiidii> hi, sorry if i ask this here, but it seems the ubuntu channel more closely related to unity
<Tiibiidii> where should i report a unity bug?
<Tiibiidii> here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity
<Tiibiidii> or here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity
<Tiibiidii> the first one is upstream, so it should be better
<Tiibiidii> but it seems that only with the second one i can automatically upload my system's information with ubuntu-bug
<Tiibiidii> upstream seems to have sligthly more bugs (so, it seems more used and more relevant)
<Tiibiidii> downstream seems to have more new bugs... but this may be a symptom that the developers pay more attention to the upstream bug tracker
<lucidfox> Tiibiidii> you can link the same bug to both locations
<rye> hi all, is there anyone with Acer Aspire One with Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller ? unity does not really start now, (unity:2446): ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to make the stage window 0x1a0004f the current GLX drawable - Mesa 7.9-devel implementation error: Bad renderbuffer format: 21 - am I the only lucky one now?
<Tiibiidii> rye, njpatel said that the latest graphics updates in maverick wreak havoc with unity
<Tiibiidii> (with intel graphics, that is)
<Tiibiidii> i've also an intel card and i'm refraining to update
<njpatel> yeah, for me it's with anything gl on intel
<njpatel> on 945
<njpatel> 965, compiz works okay, but clutter fails
<Tiibiidii> he wrote that... uh, here he is :) ... hopefully friday it'll be fixed (if i remeber correctly)
<Tiibiidii> lucidfox, you're right, but it's more manual work to do :D, and actually i'm not accustomed to link bug in more projects
<Tiibiidii> until now i've almost only reported bugs to ubuntu, and tried helping with translation on other projects... but maybe it's time to get a little more experience with these things
<rye> Tiibiidii, njpatel thanks for the info
<klattimer> davidbarth, kenvandine are either of you aware of any memory leaks currently affecting libdbusmenu-glib?
<klattimer> I think I've found some and want to avoid duplicates where possible
<kenvandine> klattimer, i am not
<kenvandine> tedg, ^^
<tedg> klattimer, Hmm, okay.  I'm not aware of any.
<kenvandine> tedg, your code never leaks, right?
<klattimer> tedg: check out the valgrind log on https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/569273
<tedg> kenvandine, Of course.  By design.  I just free memory randomly just in case ;)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 569273 in Application Indicators "memory leak in gnome-power-manager (affected: 58, heat: 305)" [Medium,In progress]
<klattimer> it really seems it's libdbusmenu-glib
<tedg> klattimer, Yeah, so ayan has a small GTK program that creates and destroys menus and causes a leak in GTK...
<tedg> Not that dbsumenu isn't at fault also :)
<klattimer> tedg: ah, that was my second guess
<tedg> But, I think that there more than one contributor there.
<klattimer> yeah, there's lots of small ones in gtk
<tedg> I think it's caused by the fact that no one creates and destroys menus as rapidly as gpm does with that patch.
<klattimer> yeah, that's possibly one way to solve it
<klattimer> the issue is that it updates frequently
<klattimer> although I've heard some noise from your branches you have a signal for menu clicked now?
<tedg> I was talking to hughsie a while back and he was saying it depends on the battery firmware how often it updates.
<tedg> Which probably explains the variation of folks reporting things on the bug.
<klattimer> yeah, that was a bit of a question up in the air
<klattimer> so some people's battery goes like crazy updating the menu, others more leisurely but still gpm grows
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> maybe we can fix the gpm patch by hooking up to your menu clicked signal, and only updating the menu then
<klattimer> it would lessen the impact of the leak
<tedg> Or I was thinking just having it update the label instead of rebuilding the whole menu.
<tedg> It'd save dbus traffic as well.
<klattimer> that's another option
<klattimer> I'll look at doing it that way
<tedg> The valgrind log is interesting.
<tedg> I wonder if there's something of the wrong type so that hashtable isn't getting free'd.
<tedg> In theory dbus-glib should do that... but I don't have a huge amount of faith in it.
<klattimer> tedg: line number?
<tedg> klattimer, The last entry in the valgrind log.  For properties_copy
<tedg> It allocated a hashtable which get's passed to dbus-glib.
<klattimer> yeah
<tedg> No, I think that serialze_menu item has a leak of that hashtable....
<tedg> Uhg.
<davidbarth> klattimer: hi; thanks for checking that; do you think you could have a patch for maverick still?
<klattimer> davidbarth: what's the deadline
<davidbarth> ie, should i target that against the 10.10 milestone?
<davidbarth> well, the hard FF is this thursday
<klattimer> tomorrow?
<davidbarth> yes
<klattimer> OK, I'll do my best
<davidbarth> if the leak is severe, it should be commitable after that, or if not, as an SRU or Natty
<davidbarth> klattimer: cool, thanks for your help
<klattimer> davidbarth: this is probably fixable now
<klattimer> just looking at the code and in theory it's possible
<klattimer> oh
<klattimer> :/
<klattimer> davidbarth: nope
<klattimer> it's not fixable quickly
<davidbarth> doh
<davidbarth> what's the issue
<klattimer> adding/removing devices requires a new menu to be created
<klattimer> so it's not just a matter of when the battery level changes, change the menu item
<klattimer> it all routes through the same portion of code for adding/removing and updating values
<klattimer> so the proper fix is to try and fix the libdbusmenu-glib issues, and possibly an upstream bug on gtk
<klattimer> davidbarth: bare in mind, the most major memory leaks are already fixed
<davidbarth> klattimer: so it's a minor leak
<klattimer> davidbarth: in theory it's only minor
<davidbarth> klattimer: if a gpm triggers the leak every 10s, how long for it to eat 10M, 100M?
<klattimer> 2Mb per hour is as high as I've seen it
<davidbarth> so 48MB a day
<klattimer> give or take
<klattimer> but as tedg says, it's dependent on battery firmware
<davidbarth> but for HW that is really verbose
<davidbarth> right
<klattimer> davidbarth: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/569273 comment #53 has some details
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 569273 in Application Indicators "memory leak in gnome-power-manager (affected: 58, heat: 305)" [Medium,In progress]
<davidbarth> makes sense for an SRU if that can't get into the release within the next 2 weeks (RC)
<klattimer> maybe you want to reassign to libdbusmenu-glib for now?
<tedg> klattimer, I think there's two bugs.
<tedg> klattimer, The one there with the hashtable, but it's in a new function we only started using a lot in Maverick.
<klattimer> tedg: in libdbusmenu and gtkmenu?
<tedg> klattimer, I think the leak above it in the valgrind log is the same one that was in Lucid, which is the gtkmenu one.
<tedg> klattimer, So Maverick made it worse, but it's still a problem :)
<klattimer> has the gtkmenu bug been upstreamed yet?
<klattimer> do you have details/ayan's test code?
<tedg> klattimer, I believe that ayan hadn't found the leak 100% yet.  Just had a small program to exercise it.
<klattimer> I could produce a decent valgrind log for upstream to gtk
<tedg> I'm not sure where ayan is on that... but certainly helping out there would be good.
<tedg> klattimer, Can you double check this for me?  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/hashtable_free/+merge/35540
<klattimer> sure
<tedg> It passes the test suite, so it must be perfect :)
<klattimer> in serialize_menuitem
<klattimer> tedg: it looks good to me
<tedg> Cool.  Thanks klattimer!  One down :)
<tedg> A million more memory leaks to go :)
<klattimer> well, that'll probably solve the majority of the issue
<klattimer> heh
<klattimer> tracing memory leaks is sometimes like trying to walk on marbles
<klattimer> tedg: the good thing about fixing in libdbusmenu is that we save memory in a lot of apps
<klattimer> fixing in gtk would be better wins
<tedg> Yup.  The more the code's used, the more each line counts.
<tedg> Might be an interesting metric to calculate using something like Ohloh's DB.
 * tedg needs interns
<klattimer> heh
<Paddy_NI> Will indicator-appmenu be available for lucid at all?
<tedg> Paddy_NI, We have no plans to backport it, but someone could.  I believe their are packages in the Unity PPA, but I don't believe they're up-to-date.
<tedg> there are....
<Paddy_NI> Oh that would be nice
 * tedg apparently offended mpt with his misuse of "there" :)
<Paddy_NI> As far as I can see there will be no need for the gnome-globalmenu project
<Paddy_NI> He another question, how much of the gnome global menu code did you use?
<Paddy_NI> *hey
<tedg> Paddy_NI, Not any, we have a different approach.  Mostly using DBus which they weren't.  So we talked to them to learn about the issues get ideas, but the code sadly wasn't useful.
<klattimer> tedg: would be nice of have an "application" menu as part of appmenu
<klattimer> i.e. the current application name
<klattimer> sort of bold... with window manager functions ;)
<klattimer> like a certain fruit company we all know and love
<tedg> klattimer, Yeah, we were just focused on getting the menus out for now.  It'd be interesting to do something like that.
<tedg> klattimer, Not sure.  It seems like it's a lot of duplication with the File menu in most Linux apps though.
<klattimer> it's a massive improvement over globalmenu anyway
<klattimer> well, file->quit never makes sense
<tedg> The problem is changing applications just sucks.  I think we learned that with appindicators :)
<klattimer> yeah, I can see the problems
<klattimer> it's just not easy to say "look, this is a great api, and much better interaction, lets all switch"
<klattimer> and get people on board that way
<tedg> Yeah, unfortunately there's a perception problem we have there.  Where any Canonical project is "not upstream" so therefore people sadly avoid dependencies.  Hopefully that'll change over time :(
<Paddy_NI> tedg, Well I for one look forward to trying indicator-appmenu and Unity
<Paddy_NI> :)
<Paddy_NI> from what I hear the dbus approach is much better
<klattimer> Paddy_NI: it is and doesn't rely on deprecated gnome libs
<klattimer> so it'll survive the gnome 3 turmoil
<Paddy_NI> Excellent
<Paddy_NI> Was getting QT applications to work with it very difficult?
<tedg> agateau, ^
<Paddy_NI> I was also wondering when application indicators land will the top panel in gnome be a little crowded on the netbook edition with the window controls and appmenu?
<Paddy_NI> It is just I have not seen a screenshot of this as yet
<agateau> Paddy_NI: we have a Qt implementation of dbusmenu and a Qt patch
<tedg> Paddy_NI, It depends on how many applications you run :)
<jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/627744
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 627744 in tomboy (Ubuntu) "note names are blank in applet menu (affected: 2, heat: 18)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jcastro> is anyone available to look at this?
<jcastro> klattimer: how's your c# these days?
<klattimer> my c# is practically non existent atm
<klattimer> haven't used it in 2years
<jcastro> k, maybe sense has time
<klattimer> but it's all code at the end of the day
<klattimer> so if you're hardup assign it to me
<jcastro> I'll assign for now but ask for help
<klattimer> k
<jcastro> heya vish
<klattimer> jcastro: if it's any help, i cant reproduce the above bug
<klattimer> worksforme
<jcastro> it also worksforme
<vish> jcastro: hey.
<jcastro> vish: if any of your papercutter gang wants to look at #627744 then I won't complain. :D
<vish> bug 627744
<jcastro> kenvandine: how's your tomboy applet dropdown?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 627744 in tomboy (Ubuntu) "note names are blank in applet menu (affected: 2, heat: 20)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627744
<vish> jcastro: hehe , the gang got scattered after the UIF! ;)  but i think lucidfox likes those.. and sense is in hiding :D
 * vish tries to find someone..
<jcastro> cool, if I see them I'll ping them, but since you're on opposite time zones if you see them ... :)
<vish> sure..
<ronoc> Cimi: you there ?
<Cimi> ronoc: yep
<ronoc> hey Cimi, hows it going ?
<Cimi> could be better but it's ok ;)
<Cimi> thank you
<ronoc> good stuff, this bug is annoying me -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-sound/+bug/632774
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 632774 in The Sound Menu "right border of transport control is different colour (affected: 1, heat: 46)" [Low,Confirmed]
<Cimi> eheh
<Cimi> me too
<ronoc> its seems as if the bg colour for ambience is slightly off in contrast to what is use to draw the border of the menuitme
<Cimi> the problem is that the GtkDrawinArea seems filled with bg[NORMAL]
<ronoc> is that not correct ?
<ronoc> should it not be ?
<Cimi> I mean
<Cimi> I would prefer to have it transparent
<Cimi> bratsche: ?
<ronoc> ahh its not a biggie
<ronoc> i was just hoping to get a quick fix in for tonight
<Cimi> maybe he has an idea
<ronoc> i think bratsche is at lunch
<ronoc> cool
<ronoc> bratsche, can you ping me when you are back
<ronoc> biab
<bratsche> I'm back.
<bratsche> ronoc, Cimi
<bratsche> Cimi: We can't really fill anything with transparent until we land rgba.  But we need an idea of how to specify rgba colors in the theme, per-widget and per-state.
<Cimi> bratsche: ok thank you
<bratsche> Cimi: I haven't been following, but is there anything new theming-wise in git master that we should be aware of?
<bratsche> Do you know?
<Cimi> bratsche: maybe the css thing by carlos garnacho
<Cimi> wait a second
<bratsche> But has that landed?
<Cimi> http://blogs.gnome.org/carlosg/2010/08/23/css-like-styling-for-gtk/
<bratsche> Cimi: I updated my patch to add corner resize grips today, btw.
<Cimi> cool
<bratsche> Cimi: I'll pull down garnacho's branch and look at it.  Ideally I want to be able to specify an RGBA color to background-color or foreground-color properties in the CSS.
<bratsche> If it doesn't support that, I'll just add it. :)
<ronoc> bratsche, so will I park this bug for now ?
<ronoc> i.e. can't be fixed until this rgba stuff lands
<bratsche> Uhh.. that doesn't look like an RGBA issue.  That just looks like there are two slightly different colors being themed somewhere.
<ronoc> yeah that is what I thought
<bratsche> But I dunno.
<ronoc> Cimi, ^
<ronoc> would it be possible Cimi  that the bgnormal is slightly different in the theme compared against what is actually used to draw the border of the menu
<Cimi> ronoc: bratsche simply, the menu background has a horizontal gradient :)
<Cimi> it's not a flat bg[normal]
<Cimi> while the gtkdrawingarea is a flat bg[NORMAL]
<bratsche> Ah, makes sense.
<ronoc> ah
 * Cimi had to go, leaving irc on anyway
<bratsche> No worries.
<vish> kenvandine: tedg: seen Bug 636693 ? it has a patch..
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 636693 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "Redundant lock before launching guest session (affected: 1, heat: 1728)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636693
<kenvandine> i haven't
<vish> seems like we are doing it twice there.. would be nice if someone commented on the patch
<tedg> vish, No, looking.
<vish> thx
<Paddy_NI> Hey this is a little offtopic but have any of you read this or had to sign the agreement --> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/09/copyright-assignments-gone-wild-or-why.html
<kklimonda> Paddy_NI: it's completely offtopi but I've read it :)
<Paddy_NI> Perhaps canonical should rethink how they treat their contributors :)
<kklimonda> I disagree but that's my humble opinion
<kklimonda> sure, there is a question whether it's a valid copyright assignment at all as it isn't signed in any way.
<kklimonda> I haven't had any objections to sign the agreement myself - but then I have a pragmatic view about things and what I care about is getting things fixed and not about who owns the code or what can he do in the future with it.
<JanCBorchardt> vish, I actually just came online to ask: Â»WTF is up with the bug watch updater!?Â« :)
<vish> JanCBorchardt: yeah.. they just turned them on.. :)
<nigelb> JanCBorchardt: there was un update
<nigelb> so, now it updates importance too
<vish> JanCBorchardt: also , re: the lp unsubscribe , there is a bug about that , but no one seems to have reached a consensus how to handle it
<JanCBorchardt> vish, nigelb: ah, thanks!
<JanCBorchardt> vish, do you have a link?
<vish> JanCBorchardt: not sure , but ask in #launchpad or try searching ;)
<JanCBorchardt> vish, ok
<vish> JanCBorchardt: oh , i havent forgotten the mail either.. :)
<JanCBorchardt> vish, this looks like it: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/204980
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 204980 in Launchpad Bugs "bug contacts should be able to unsubscribe from implicit subscriptions (affected: 4, heat: 44)" [High,Triaged]
<vish> JanCBorchardt: yup , thats the one :)
<devildante> vish, now that's five :p
<vish> devildante: fail! ;p
<devildante> argh
<vish> devildante: this was already in the 3 ;)
#ayatana 2010-09-16
<JanCBorchardt> is there a tool to compare lines of code written fixing a bug to lines of comments written on its report?
<Paddy_NI> I fear there may not be enough room on the top panel for ubuntu netbook 10.10
<Paddy_NI> My screen resolution is 1024x640
<ronoc> Cimi: you there ?
<vish> ronoc: hey, i dint understand your comment : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/624610/comments/8 .. you are working on fixing it for Natty? and this menu-close is a temporary workaround?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 624610 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Media Buttons should trigger action only on button release (affected: 3, heat: 22)" [Low,Triaged]
<vish> oh boo! i seem to have missed him ;p
 * vish should really stop hiding join/part!
<thorwil> heh, whenever i consider to hide joins/quits, i'm reminded of how useful those referring to people you want to talk with are
<klattimer> kenvandine: I can't find any entry point in vino for empathy, can you point me in the right direction?
 * klattimer 's eyes sore with code :/
<ronoc> Cimi, ping
<Cimi> ronoc: pong
<ronoc> Cimi, remember what we talked about yesterday ?
<ronoc> Cimi, gradient etc
<Cimi> y
<ronoc> Cimi, do you know of any example code of where this implemented
<Cimi> it's in the engine
<Cimi> but, why you might need that?
<ronoc> Cimi, is it possible to do this the transport control
<Cimi> no, too difficult
<ronoc> Cimi, do you have time to take a look ?
<Cimi> we can't fix it in that way
<ronoc> Cimi, so what way should we fix it, sorry UI is not my strong point
<ronoc> i just want to get it fixed
<Cimi> it can't :)
<Cimi> unfortunately, I've noticed that bug already a month ago
<Cimi> but there's no proper fix if not making a transparent gtkdrawingarea
<Cimi> but bratsche told us it's impossible
<ronoc> Cimi, okay, so without the rgba we cannot fix this ?
<ronoc> Cimi, Okay just commented on that bug and kicked it out to touch.
<Cimi> ok :(
<kenvandine> klattimer, you mean for the event?  look in vino-tube-server.c or vino-tube-servers-manager.c
<klattimer> kenvandine: yeah
<klattimer> I can't see why the name of the user isn't present
<klattimer> the string is produced in a reasonable way
<klattimer> the condition seems to be the only reason this would fail
<klattimer> but even that shouldn't be broken
<klattimer> :/
<kenvandine> klattimer, indeed
<klattimer> I'm perplexed to say the least
<kenvandine> if you look at the status icon code, it doesn't look up the alias until much later
<klattimer> it's going to take a lot more digging
<kenvandine> it does it when you activate the icon
<klattimer> hmm
<klattimer> kenvandine: there seem to be a bunch of problems related to the timing
<kenvandine> look at the SERVER_PROP in vino-tube-app-indicator.c
<klattimer> everything is written to work with borken status icons
<kenvandine> value is null when it gets the SERVER_PROP
<klattimer> that's strange
<klattimer> surely it should know what the server is, if it's connected to it
<klattimer> *sigh* :/
<JanCBorchardt> andreasn, thorwil, wers, godbyk: off to #ubuntu-meeting this time ;)
<thorwil> JanCBorchardt: sure, but where's his mpt'ness?
<JanCBorchardt> thorwil, I was wondering as well
<godbyk> JanCBorchardt: If my Internet connection holds up.
<thorwil> mpt: hi! we just started missing you ;)
<thorwil> heh
<JanCBorchardt> :D
<godbyk> I may be off and on -- my Internet connection is wonky this morning. :-(
<JanCBorchardt> mat_t, are you coming to the meeting?
<mat_t> JanCBorchardt: hi, unfortunately swamped with other work atm :(
<JanCBorchardt> mat_t, ok, no problem. Can you poke mpt by any chance?
<bratsche> Cimi: If the widget doesn't draw a background on itself at all, will that fix it?  Or will it just be white space then?
<Cimi> bratsche: I don't know, we should try
<bratsche> Cimi: RGBA won't fix it though, that's for sure.  RGBA is composited by the compositor, not by gtk+.  So if you tried to make the widget transparent then you'd just see the desktop under it, not the widget under it.
<Cimi> yes
<kklimonda> bah, am I the only one tired of hearing that Ubuntu doesn't contribute enough?
<klattimer> kklimonda: nope
<kklimonda> tedg: what is the status of inclusion of indicators in gtk+? have you guys tried pushing it further after first rejection? How is the whole spec going in fd.o? Any chance to get it approved as a standard?
<klattimer> kklimonda: I upstreamed patches over a week ago
<klattimer> and can't see a response to them
<tedg> kklimonda, Unfortunately the GNOME folks seem to not want to accept anything that isn't "Shell focused" and Shell hasn't decided what they want to do yet. :(
<kklimonda> klattimer: heh, just upstreaming patches to glib/gtk+ doesn't seem enough - you have to poke them on the ML.. I think the gio patch required by unity and zeig.. still hasn't been commented on :/
<tedg> kklimonda, The FD.o thing is held up because the KDE guys don't want to push it unless someone from GNOME agrees.  And since there isn't anyone formally in charge of that in GNOME we don't have anyone to lobby.
<kklimonda> tedg: argh..
<tedg> kklimonda, I thought about just writing the XDG list with my @gnome.org mail address ;)
<klattimer> tedg: that sounds a great move tbh
<klattimer> put it bluntly that it's an implementation for both kde and gnome and the dbus api is fairly sweet
<tedg> klattimer, Heh, yeah.  Unfortunately I think I'm too well known. :)
<klattimer> the spec probably still needs some discussion, but for the most part it's a massive improvement
<klattimer> for crying out loud I can SLIDE between my notification icons!!!!!!!
<kklimonda> yeah, that's the killer feature in my opinion
<kklimonda> it looks great
<klattimer> kklimonda: it's ONE killer feature
<klattimer> there's lots of cool stuff in there
<tedg> klattimer, Yeah, there's some movement there.  Hopefully, we can get some discussion going at GNOME Boston Summit... we'll see though.
<klattimer> but what _is_ kinda missing is the ability to put arbitrary items there, and mangle with the graphics a little more
<klattimer> e.g. tomboy pins
<tedg> For one, I know the indicators all work in Clutter -- the Unity integration could easily be stolen :)
<klattimer> and also doing non-standard icony things
<kklimonda> klattimer: sure, but this one should convince everyone that indicators are superior..
<klattimer> e.g. rendering icons as a bunch of layers
<tedg> klattimer, Yeah, and the problem there is theming.  So we hope that the GTK symbolic icons will solve some of that.
<tedg> klattimer, Not all of course, but some.
<klattimer> tedg: I see symbolic icons solving about 80% but that 20% is still a little annoying
<kklimonda> but leaving jokes aside - how do indicators work when you use remote X? Do they show up as expected? I remember this question from the discussion back then when you tried upstreaming it for the first time.
<klattimer> for instance, symbolic icons which could reference other svgs
<tedg> klattimer, I think that jcastro is trying to organize a discussion at UDS/Boston Summit -- you should ping him with your list if ideas.
<tedg> kklimonda, For all practical purposes they don't work when you remote X :-/
<klattimer> e.g. the mail icon, references an SVG file which has a property of <number> then what you get is a small overlay of an icon with the number in it, positioned well and appropriately
<tedg> klattimer, I'm curious if we couldn't take an SVG over the bus that was symoblic.  It fixes the theming issues.
<tedg> klattimer, Either that or make an library API that makes it easy to "build a temp icon theme"
<tedg> klattimer, So then you'd have a disk area to play with.  And advanced users could do advanced things, but we could make some common things easy.
<klattimer> tedg: really there's a lot of librsvg work to be done
<klattimer> external CSS and xref SVG's would solve most of the problems
<kklimonda> tedg: so this is going to be one point people cry about in every discussion - it would be great to prepare some good counterargument other than "meh, who does that anyway?".. I guess pushing dbus over the network would be stupid, have either you or KDE guys thought about it?
<tedg> klattimer, Yeah, actually the symbolic icon guys (I think hadess, but I don't remember off hand) pushed a lot of those things into rsvg.  One of the problems is that Inkscape doesn't support drawing with them easily :(
<tedg> kklimonda, Yeah, it's the same problem with appmenu.  It's one of those things that I think everyone would love a solution, but no one is willing to invest the time to build one.
<tedg> kklimonda, It's hard to justify as it really has become a corner case.  Even "dumb terminals" have pretty fast processors in them.
<Paddy_NI> Have I heard right, that there is a tomboy notes app indicator?
<kklimonda> yeah, I actually agree but there are still quite a lot of people using some old terminals for things like LTSP.. things are going to get ugly again when you start pushing it :)
<kklimonda> on the other hand one could always implement indicators the way that they fall back to xembed (it's what notifications currently use) when they are launched over the network..
<tedg> kklimonda, They do fallback to xembed with the notification area... but, we want to drop that long term.
<tedg> Paddy_NI, yes
<Paddy_NI> tedg, is it currently only for maverick?
<Paddy_NI> Or should I use the core ppa
<Paddy_NI> lucid here
<tedg> Paddy_NI, Mostly, I had an old patch.  But I wouldn't trust it anymore.
<Paddy_NI> ah sure thanks for the info.. I guess I can wait for maverick netbook
<Paddy_NI> I need to get myself one of those MiFi devices
<Paddy_NI> mobile broadband here so one computer online at a time
<kklimonda> tedg: I know they do.. so actually it should just work[tm], right? The remote application won't find indicator-applet, will fallback to xembed and send it over network as it does today.
<Paddy_NI> oh yeah I just gotta say this, love the work you guys do absolutely great :D
<tedg> kklimonda, Correct, it should "Just work" :)
<kklimonda> tedg: so it's not that big deal - lets just say that "the long term" when you believe xembed should be removed is not 1-2 years but 4-5. After all what's really important is to get the code accepted by upstream and start further work on the specification. Maybe broader community will have a better idea how to push indicators over network (which we can steal for appmenu ;) )
<pavolzetor> #include "libindicate-gtk/indicator.h"
<pavolzetor> hallo, do I have to use it, if I wanna add icon?
<pavolzetor> no one?
<lucidfox> Does notify-osd ignore custom timeout values?
<kklimonda> lucidfox: afair yet
<kklimonda> yes
<kklimonda> lucidfox: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/390508
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 390508 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "notify-send ignores the expire timeout parameter (affected: 41, heat: 207)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
#ayatana 2010-09-17
<Cimi> njpatel: ping
<njpatel> Cimi, pong, I'm just going through the morning meetings then can ping
<Cimi> njpatel: I want to patch unity this morning
<Cimi> njpatel: could you point me to the code/file/whatever
<njpatel> Cimi, create a branch and go crazy, the cairo code is in lp:unity and then go to unity-private/panel/panel-indicator-object-entry-view.vala
<Cimi> ok cool
<Cimi> thank you dude
<Cimi> I'll make your unity rocks
<Cimi> ;)
<Cimi> njpatel: I can't see any cairo code there :)
<Cimi> ok seen :D
<Cimi> opened wrong file
 * Cimi hides
<njpatel> :)
<Cimi> njpatel: static colors??
<njpatel> Cimi, yes, the panel never changes colour
<Cimi> why not grabbing gtk+ colors?
<Cimi> ok
<njpatel> at least for this release
<Cimi> davidbarth: do you have something in opposite if I work a bit in fixing unity's theming? it's not one of the tasks I was assigned
<davidbarth> Cimi: it's not themeable, by design
<Cimi> davidbarth: I mean
<davidbarth> Cimi: if there are color/style adjustments, they should have been tracked by christian, and in this case you should look at the bugs we have in https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/backlog
<Cimi> davidbarth: I'm for example fixing the panel
<Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/611967
<ubot5> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: list.index(x): x not in list (https://launchpad.net/bugs/611967)
<njpatel> davidbarth, it would be useful if Cimi fixes the panel menus and some other bits in places, do you mind if I steal him for a while today?
<davidbarth> njpatel: not at all
<njpatel> davidbarth, awesome, thanks!
<davidbarth> njpatel, Cimi: are there clear design guidelines or bugs tracking the issues?
<njpatel> Cimi, your all mine....muahahaha
<Cimi> ahaha
<njpatel> davidbarth, yep, also, there's some untracked niceness that needs to be done
<davidbarth> Cimi: make sure that for each changeset you have a bug and something linked to ayatana-design
<Cimi> I need to buy a new computer if I'm going to work on those things in the next months, the netbook takes ages to compile unity
<Cimi> davidbarth: for sure I will
<davidbarth> the release team won't let that pass without some review, and rightfully so
<davidbarth> Cimi: ping?
<Cimi> iainfarrell: "in the week in design" you can see a bounch of updates for unity's rendering are arriving :)
<Cimi> *say
<Cimi> not see
<iainfarrell> Cimi: thanks!
<iainfarrell> you want to take some screen shots? ;)
<Cimi> don't have time
<Cimi> currently working on 3 branches at the same time
<Cimi> (2 PCs, 1 mind)
<Cimi> it already happened to write "make" in chat and say "hello" to the text editor :)
<Cybolic> Does anyone know how to use markup in an appindicator menu-item, or if its even possible?
<meebey> jcastro: wasnt there a wiki page that lists application thats have ayatana support?
<meebey> jcastro: I was unable to find but I am sure I have seen it...
<meebey> there was like 3 or 4 applications listed
<jcastro> for the messaging menu
<jcastro> there's really no list for overall "ayatana support"
<meebey> do you have the URL? I wanted to enhance the list
<jcastro> sec
<meebey> well it was the messaging menu list then
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/Applications
<jcastro> any help there would be <3
<meebey> thats the one
<meebey> thanks
<meebey> well, I accidently know a pretty cool application that has messaging menu support ^^
<meebey> and is not on that list yet
<jcastro> :)
<meebey> added
<meebey> jcastro: a bit off-topic, do you know how a launchpad owner can be changed? I noticed there is https://launchpad.net/smuxi but thats not me, and has an outdated description which I wanted to update
<jcastro> I'm your man
<meebey> yay
<meebey> jcastro: so do you need any further details from me or should I be just patient
<jcastro> normally I can just switch it
<jcastro> but this appears to be a super project so I need an admin to do it
<jcastro> I'm on it
<meebey> ok cool
<jcastro> it might not be today, depends on who's around from lp
<meebey> no biggy, its not time critical or anything
<jcastro> off to dinner, I'll follow up with you tomorrow
<meebey> k thx
#ayatana 2010-09-18
<aboSamoor> Hi, can you tell me what is the shortcut to call the search box in unity ? how can I get the right click drop menu for a file in unity? By the way it looks gorgeous
<Cybolic> Hello everyone. Does ayone know if it is possible to change a menu-item in an appindicator or must the whole menu be reset on every change?
<Cybolic> ....also, is there documentation for appindicator somewhere? The wiki page doesn't mention much about DBus, but it seems every Ubuntu indicator is full of DBus stuff and I can't find any info on how to do custom widgets?
<Cybolic> To answer one of my own questions, in case someone else is wondering (this is logged right?): To update the label of a menuitem in an appindicator, don't manipulate the actual label, always use the menuitems own functions - such as set_label (instead of the label's set_text).
#ayatana 2011-09-12
<jono> smspillaz, you around?
<smspillaz> jono: not really, whats up ?
<jono> smspillaz, just noticing a lot of Compiz crashes over the last few days
<didrocks> good morning
<smspillaz> jono: crashes in unity or compiz?
<smspillaz> jono: remember that if unity crashes compiz goes with it :)
<jono> smspillaz, I suspect maybe Unity
<smspillaz> ok :)
<jono> but surely compiz should survive a unity crash?
<smspillaz> jono: nope
<jono> why not?
<smspillaz> jono: it's a plugin that's loaded at runtime and runs inside the compiz process
<jono> right, but doesn't compiz provide safeguards for bad plugins?
<smspillaz> jono: it's impossible
<jono> a shitty GEdit plugin doesnt take down GEdit :-)
<jono> right
<smspillaz> GEdit plugins are written in python which provide exception safety
<smspillaz> compiz plugins are in C++
<jono> I am just noticing random crashes
<jono> I filed a few bugs, particularly when apport caught them
<jono> but it feels like stability took a hit since the last Unity update
<smspillaz> if you mess up and cause a segmentation fault in C++ attempting to handle the signal results in undefined behaviour
<smspillaz> jono: we'll get on to them don't worry :)
<jono> gotcha
<jono> thanks smspillaz
<jono> you guys are doing a great job
<smspillaz> np
<jono> :-)
<smspillaz> oh
<smspillaz> and
<smspillaz> I fixed the stacking bug YAY
<smspillaz> gosh that was a nightmare
<smspillaz> let us never speak of that again
<jono> haha nice!
<oSoMoN> good morning
<Saviq> hello
<Andy80> hi
<ephan> hey Andy80
<Andy80> Kaleo: let's suppose I've to add and manage a double click event to the Unity-2D panel. Is it better to add it here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/oneiric/view/head:/panel/applets/appname/appnameapplet.cpp or here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/oneiric/view/head:/libunity-2d-private/src/unity2dpanel.cpp ? I'm trying to fix this bug #736491
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 736491 in unity (Ubuntu) "Panel Titlebar double click is emitted for any mouse button" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/736491
<Andy80> nerochiaro: question valid for you too ^_^ p.s: good morning :)
<Kaleo> Andy80: good morning
<Andy80> Kaleo: good morning :)
<Kaleo> Andy80: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/oneiric/view/head:/panel/applets/appname/appnameapplet.cpp
<Andy80> Kaleo: uhm... I tried to do it, but even if AppNameApplet is a Unity2dPanel (that is a QWidget itself), it looks like it doesn't have the mouseDoubleClick event :\ I try to committ+push the code so you can see better...
<Kaleo> Andy80: ok
<Andy80> Kaleo: here you have http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~andreagrandi/unity-2d/panel-doubleclick-bug-736491/revision/715
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 715 in apt-file (Ubuntu) "missing dependency on curl" [Medium,Fix released]
<Andy80> ubot5: shut up! :P
<Saviq> Andy80: I'm actually trying to get back on https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/661049 - maybe we should join forces
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 661049 in unity-2d "Dragging downwards from the menu bar or double clicking on the menu bar should un-maximise the window" [High,In progress]
<davidcalle> Hi kamstrup, is "model.flush_revision_queue()" in lenses supposed to work ? Doesn't seem to do anything from a python lens.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: whether it does anything depends a bit on how it's invoked :-)
<kamstrup> davidcalle: Dee.SharedModel will send all changes on DBus when ever control returns to the mainloop
<kamstrup> so if you very often return to the mainloop chances are that it does nothing because the revision queue has already been send
<Andy80> Saviq: sure! If you already have some code please push it. It should be just a matter of fixing what I've already written, maybe I've defined it in the wrong place. Unmaximizing the window is easy, we can use the WindowHelper class. I just need to understand how to manage the double click properly :P
<kamstrup> davidcalle: but if you do some blocking IO scanning 1000 files building a model without ever going out to the mainloop unity wont see the changes before all 1000 items has been added
<kamstrup> davidcalle: so if you want to notify unity after the first 50 has been added and then later send the rest of the 950 rows then insert a flush_revision_queue() after 50 items
<kamstrup> this will increase the responsiveness the user experiences in the dash
<kamstrup> but is not strictly necessary
<kamstrup> just changes how fast changes are propagated to unity
<Andy80> Kaleo: p.s: the error I get is this one: unity-2d-panel: [WARNING] Object::connect: No such signal AppNameApplet::mouseDoubleClickEvent(QMouseEvent*) in /home/andrea/Documents/development/unity-2d-panel-doubleclick-bug-736491/panel/applets/appname/appnameapplet.cpp:208
<davidcalle> kamstrup, I'm adding a flush_revision_queue after populating the model with a part of the sources I'm querying. But I could be doing it wrong.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: so if you're updating you model by looping over some data set, then calling flush_rev_q(), and returning control to the mainloop - then it doesn't make a difference
<Saviq> Andy80: take a look at my merge request here https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-2d/unmaximize-on-drag/+merge/61028
<kamstrup> davidcalle: as the rev queue will be flushed anyway automatically
<Kaleo> Andy80: AppNameApplet is not a QWidget
<Saviq> Andy80: I got it working more or less, but had to refactor it and never got to it in the end until today
<Kaleo> Andy80: scrap that
<Kaleo> Andy80: I am talking crap
<Saviq> Andy80: and since there was some changes in unity-2d since that time, it needs to be rewritten a bit
<Kaleo> Andy80: it seems Saviq is _the_ person to talk to on this particular topic :)
<Saviq> see Aurelien's comments on that mr, too
<davidcalle> kamstrup, thanks for the explanation.
<Saviq> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/735205 is sooo annoying...
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 735205 in unity-2d "[window management] Alt tab does not switch to the desired application but instead set the urgency flag on the window" [Critical,Confirmed]
<Andy80> Kaleo: ok let me give a look to his merge request :)
<Andy80> Saviq: oh you're also managing thr drag event... mmmm.... well it's out of my knowledge then :P I see too much code... I mean, I did think it was just a matter of managing the doubleclick and use the unmaximize() method of WindowHelper but maybe is more complicated. I'll drop my branch then, is it ok?
<Kaleo> Saviq: it shall be your first bug fix ;)
<Saviq> Kaleo: hopefully
<Saviq> Andy80: yeah, drags are a bit more complicated, but what you can do to speed things up, is find where it's best to hook up to the events in the new codebas
<Saviq> e
<Saviq> where I _think_ the events should go is the MenuBarWidget usually, and sometimes the label, when there is no menubar due to incompatibility
<Andy80> Saviq: but you cannot doubleclick the menu usually.... at least on Unity 3D you cannot... you have to double click in the zone not covered by window title or menu
<Saviq> Andy80: yes, but that's still the MenuBarWidget, AFAIK
<Andy80> Saviq: so why did you modify the appnameapplet.cpp ?
<Saviq> but I might be wrong in that, and need to find that out to get that working
<Saviq> Andy80: because the MenuBar is initialized there and also to handle the other case - when there's no menu bar
<Andy80> Saviq: first obvious question: is your code working or is it just a concept?
<Saviq> it was working
<Andy80> ok
<Saviq> back in 3.0
<Saviq> it needs rewriting now and finding a better place to handle the events
<Andy80> Saviq: we can have a single SLOT, but if appname and appmenu are two separate widget we need to catch both doubleclick events, we cannot do it just in one of two
<Saviq> Andy80: yes, and that's where the mentioned eventFilters come in
<Andy80> Saviq: oh, I missed it, sorry :) let me read the code better...
<Saviq> we need a separate class, say TitleBarHelper, that will implement eventFilter(QObject *, QEvent *)
<Saviq> Andy80: read Aurelien's comments first
<Saviq> that filter will then get installEventFilter()ed on the relevant widgets
<Saviq> and that should be it
<Andy80> Saviq: I'll give it a look better after lunch :)
<Saviq> k
<Kaleo> apinheiro: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/846441 any idea?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 846441 in unity-2d "Repeated indicators in unity-2d panel when second screen added" [High,Incomplete]
<apinheiro> Kaleo, reading
<apinheiro> Kaleo, ups
<apinheiro> Timeout error
<apinheiro> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
<apinheiro> well, it seems that I can read it
<apinheiro> Kaleo, unity-2d uses the panel-service as well?
<Kaleo> apinheiro: yes
<apinheiro> so the a11y support there is the one implemented at unity,right?
<Kaleo> apinheiro: I did not mean to ping you actually :)
<apinheiro> Kaleo, ;)
<apinheiro> ok
<Kaleo> apinheiro: for the panel yes :)
<Kaleo> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/846441 any idea?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 846441 in unity-2d "Repeated indicators in unity-2d panel when second screen added" [High,Incomplete]
<apinheiro> so then I will forgot that, and going lunch
<Kaleo> apinheiro: disfruta
<apinheiro_lunch> Kaleo, thanks
<mterry> smspillaz, heyo.  Last Friday we were talking about bug 732997, and you thought it may have been fixed by trunk.  I just tested, and it's not
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 732997 in unity "Cannot open a window that starts iconified" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732997
<mterry> smspillaz, there's a test case in the bug for ease-of-testing
<smspillaz> mterry: hm ok
<smspillaz> mterry: I fixed it last cycle, maybe the fix got dropped somewhere
<hicham> any progress on upstreaming ubuntu menu proxy patch ?
<agateau> hey, looking at bug #821290, it seems to affect unity 3d as well. Can anyone confirm this?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 821290 in unity-2d "[panel] Unable to access menus with Alt accelerator keys." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821290
<Andy80> Saviq: finally I had time to read all comments, but... I don't understand the "event filter" stuff... I mean, is there already a class in Unity-2d or is it something Qt related?
<Saviq> Andy80: doc.qt.nokia.com/stable/eventsandfilters.html#event-filters
<Saviq> add a http:// to that
<Andy80> Saviq: ok, so if I understand well, from a single point you want to intercept both events for appname and menuwidget, is it right?
<Saviq> yes, that's the idea
<Saviq> to abstract an event handler / filter
<Andy80> ok
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, you here?
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: hello
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, hello, just a question
<apinheiro> some time ago you added the signal:
<apinheiro>     sigc::signal<void, BaseWindow*> sigVisibleViewWindow;
<apinheiro> and his "hidden" equivalent
<apinheiro> in order to know when any window is shown
<apinheiro> but, I tried to connect to it and I don't receive anything
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: right
<apinheiro> after a grep on nux code
<apinheiro> I didn't find a emission of this signal
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, is this signal implemented?
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: let me check...
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok thanks
<kamstrup> njpatel: at your leisure I have some review work for you :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/838023
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 838023 in unity "[dash] Application category filters is sorted according to their english names, even when another language is used" [Medium,In progress]
<kamstrup> njpatel: another fruit from the updated architecture for the lenses :-D
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: you are right, the signals are not emitted.
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, urgh, ok
<apinheiro> well, I will create a bug for that
<njpatel> kamstrup, lol, I was looking at the same bit in the .lens file thinking "damn, did I forget to port this to the new stuff?" :D
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: however, these signals are implemented on BaseWindow themselves: sigVisible and sigHidden
<apinheiro> and workaround that
<apinheiro> in order to use that on the next cycle
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, yes, but in order to use them
<apinheiro> you need the specific BaseWindow instance
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: right!
<apinheiro> I wanted to use that signal to get when a new BaseWindow appears
<apinheiro> in order to add them to the list of active windows
<njpatel> kamstrup, oh, filters!
<njpatel> kamstrup, ignore me
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: I believe I can fix the problem...
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, really? I don't want to compromise the current cycle, taking into account where we are right now
<njpatel> kamstrup, both approved
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: it is alright, there are just 2 lines to add... then you can be free to use the signal in this cycle if you want
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok, thanks
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: I have pushed the changes to nux trunk. You may now connect to these signals: GetWindowCompositor().sigVisibleViewWindow and GetWindowCompositor().sigHiddenViewWindow
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, as I said Im  already connected to those signals ;)
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, thanks
<apinheiro> I will test them right now
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: let me know how it goes
<Kaleo> Trevinho: since your patch from last week in Unity 2D we get a crash regularly: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/846836
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 846836 in unity-2d "unity-2d-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in IndicatorsWidget::onEntryRemoved()" [Critical,In progress]
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, it is working, thanks
<apinheiro> njpatel, one question about the name on the BaseWindow
<apinheiro> are they used?
<apinheiro> could I use that name as the accessible name of the Window?
<njpatel> apinheiro, sure
<njpatel> no, not used really
<apinheiro> njpatel, so no problem if I change the current name of the  Launcher window, right?
<apinheiro> right now is "LauncherWindow"
<njpatel> apinheiro, nope, DBO ?
<apinheiro> I should also mark that name to be translatable though
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: don't use "BaseWindow" this name could change
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, what do you mean? I shouldn't use the class "BaseWindow" or I shouldn't use that name?
<apinheiro> because about the class, I0m already using it
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: I mean the name "BaseWindow" :-D
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok, no problem
<apinheiro> I want to use the name to give the window a meaningful name
<apinheiro> something like "Panel", "Launcher" "Quicklist"
<apinheiro> so when the window is being activated any orca user could listen "Launcher Window"
<apinheiro> at this moment Im setting the name manually on the a11y object
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: well you can if you want, but all I meant to say is that I have been thinking at a new name for "BaseWindow", because I don't think the name is quite right
<apinheiro> it would be easier to just use the name from BaseWindow itself
<apinheiro> yeah, and for the user listening "BaseWindow" should be also not really meaningful
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: feel free to do so, nut just understand that the class name "BaseWindow" may change. but that won't affect the BaseWindow code
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok thanks
<kamstrup> lamalex: at your leisure https://code.launchpad.net/~kamstrup/unity-lens-music/sorted-filters/+merge/75030
<kamstrup> lamalex: i wans't sure though if the current ordering was hard coded by design, so feel free to ignore - but it was definitely a bug for the apps lens :-)
<lamalex> kamstrup, i just copied the mockups
<apinheiro> njpatel, jaytaoko I have just realized that in the end you use the name of the basewindow
<apinheiro> EnableInputWindow(true, "Dash",
<apinheiro> it seems that on nux is used to know the window to activate, so I guess that also to search
<apinheiro> could you confirm that?
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: let me check...
<apinheiro> the issue is that if this is true, I can't use that name, as the use case is to be shown to user
<apinheiro> so need to be a translatable string
<apinheiro> so I couldn't replace
<apinheiro>   window_ = new nux::BaseWindow("Dash");
<apinheiro> for
<apinheiro>   window_ = new nux::BaseWindow(_("Dash"));
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: right unity uses the name of the base window, like "Dash", "launcher"...
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok, I will discard the idea of use current BaseWindow name as the accessible name then
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, thanks
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: however, I am not sure that latter in in the code there is a comparaison of strings to look for a BaseWindow name
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok, anyway just in case, for the moment I will  not use that name
<jaytaoko> apinheiro: I need to check with DBO...
<DBO> I'll be here in a minute
<apinheiro> jaytaoko, ok, anyway not a big issue right now, as normally if you open a window, usually one of the objects inside the window get the focus
<apinheiro> the window just provide more information about the context
<lamalex> what's the envar to set to debug glib runtime warnings/criticals?
<Trevinho> Kaleo: I'll give a look to these bugs
<Trevinho> Kaleo: are you already working on the bug related to the crash?
<lamalex> can i get a review? https://code.launchpad.net/~alexlauni/unity-lens-music/846013/+merge/75044 1 line change
<AlanBell> is there an example of a python based lens with packaging for oneiric?
<davidcalle> AlanBell, there will be one soon. Tomorrow night I hope.
<davidcalle> AlanBell, do you want me to point you to the branch when it's done?
<jono> davidcalle, howdy
<jono> how is the lens coming along?
<davidcalle> Hey jono
<davidcalle> Take a look http://img.ly/8fPQ
<jono> davidcalle, nice!
<davidcalle> I'm cleaning the code tonight, will push the branch tomorrow.
<jono> davidcalle, sounds great!
<AlanBell> davidcalle: that would be great
<AlanBell> I think I am seeing a fairly major fail with the screensaver and unity, not sure who is at fault and where to file the bug
<AlanBell> if I leave the dash open and wander off until the screensaver cuts in the dash stays on top of the screensaver and the screensaver login window is behind the dash and can't be typed in
<jono> AlanBell, I think that would be a Unity bug
 * AlanBell files bug 848336
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 848336 in unity (Ubuntu) "screensaver is behind the unity dash so impossible to unlock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848336
<AlanBell> why is the system settings thing not a lens?
<davidcalle> AlanBell, I would say: because it closes after a click. IMHO it would be a pain when you want to configure different settings;
<AlanBell> um, but it does close after a click!
<AlanBell> oh, no it doesn't quite
<AlanBell> the thing just looks like it should have been a lens but someone didn't get the memo
#ayatana 2011-09-13
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> v
<oSoMoN> good morning
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: hey - Should the options in the Types filter in the files lens be sorted alphabetically, or should they be fixed as they are now?
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: and same question about the Genre filter in the music lens
<Saviq> hi all, does anyone successfully run unity-2d-launcher built out of source? the qml files aren't there it seems, am I missing somethinh?
<JohnLea> kamstrup_; alphabetically, with the one exception that log titles that force the button to be double or triple width are always the last option
<JohnLea> long ^
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: but what is "long" - and what if there are many long titles?
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: i'll see if I can figure out with njpatel if/when the button sizes grow
<andyrock> JohnLea, have you test last unity
<andyrock> regarding fast drag and drop mouse move?
<JohnLea> kamstrup_; long is defined as longer than can fit into the button length; because the Genre buttons are 3 abreast in the Music Lens, less text can fit into each button than in say the Category section of the app lens where the buttons are 2 abreast.  Currently the only text that is too long to fit into a normally sized button is "Science & Engineering" in the Categories section of the App lens
<JohnLea> kamstrup_; if there are many long titles, they are stacked on top of each other, again in A-Z order
<JohnLea> andyrock; not yet, just got back today, I'll prob have some time to look tomorrow
<andyrock> JohnLea, np
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: but u3d doesn't expand buttons it always just ellipsises, is that a u2d feature?
<davidcalle> Hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey davidcalle!
<davidcalle> didrocks, do you know if there is a way to know if the user is on unity-2d or 3d?
<didrocks> davidcalle: quite geeky, but there is a way by dbus
<didrocks> davidcalle: would that fit? (installing d-feet)
<didrocks> davidcalle: depends, if it's on oneiric, for last week, there is the DESKTOP_SESSION which should be ubuntu for 3d users, and ubuntu-2d for 2d users, even if it fallbacked
<davidcalle> The HorizontalRenderer is crashing on 3D, I'd like to detect if the user is on it and switch to the apporpriate renderer. I don't know a lot of dbus stuff, but I could try, yes.
<davidcalle> Oh great!
<davidcalle> Works perfectly thanks :)
<didrocks> davidcalle: hum, you mean, dynamically fallbacking for the user?
<davidcalle> didrocks, just a condition in the daemon. As a workaround until the bug is fixed.
<didrocks> davidcalle: no, that's not possible
<didrocks> davidcalle: because we need to set values on session, gnome-session is trying to respawn required components as well
<didrocks> so replacing unity by unity-2d dynamically doesn't work
<davidcalle> didrocks, so the lens-daemon will start before DESKTOP_SESSION is on the good value?
<didrocks> davidcalle: hum no, oh you mean, the HorizontalRenderer just crash in unity-2d and not 3d?
<davidcalle> Just un 3d
<didrocks> davidcalle: I was thinking you wanted to restart another unity :)
<davidcalle> in*
<davidcalle> Nope :)
<didrocks> ok, in these case, yeah, rely on the env variable
<davidcalle> didrocks, great, ty!
<didrocks> davidcalle: yw :)
<davidcalle> didrocks, just tried, works perfectly, you rock. Unrelated question, will there be a lot of french in Orlando? ;)
<didrocks> davidcalle: there will be some at least, the canonical french mafia, the ubuntu-fr president and maybe some more from ubuntu-fr :) are you coming?
<davidcalle> didrocks, yep
<didrocks> davidcalle: excellent, will be nice to meet you there :-)
<didrocks> davidcalle: and orlando in november, is like summer in winter for us ;-)
<davidcalle> didrocks, heh :-)
<davidcalle> lamalex, hi
<JohnLea> kamstrup_; no this should be a Unity 3d feature
<JohnLea> kamstrup_; it might not be implemented yet though
<kamstrup_> JohnLea: it's not
<lamalex> davidcalle, hey
<davidcalle> lamalex, I believe you are the music lens dev, right?
<lamalex> davidcalle, yes, i am!
<lamalex> what's up
<davidcalle> lamalex, I was wondering : do you plan to use the Horizontal renderer to display the name of the artist next to song and album tiles?
<lamalex> davidcalle, no. the way it is is how design gave it to me
<lamalex> can you send me a picture of the horizonal renderer? i dont think ive actually see in
<lamalex> it
<davidcalle> http://ubuntuone.com/4hJIk1CeAboeNXsKv0T1ZP
<davidcalle> lamalex ^
<davidcalle> It's on unity-2D (horizontal renderer is buggy on 3d this week)
<jcastro> davidcalle: man, looking nice!
<jcastro> davidcalle: mind if I tweet that?
<davidcalle> jcastro, hey thanks! Not at all.
<lamalex> oh wow that's nice
<lamalex> i'll talk to design
<lamalex> that would be better
<davidcalle> lamalex, great :)
<jcastro> davidcalle: unfortunately stefano has been busy so he hasn't gotten to updating the askubuntu lens yet
<davidcalle> lamalex, but be warned if you try : until the bug is fixed, opening the lens on 3d with the horizontal renderer crashes unity.
<jcastro> hey do lenses load dynamically now? or do you have to log out after you install it?
<lamalex> haha oh
<lamalex> well then no, that's a good reason why not to use it
<lamalex> njpatel, gord ^
<lamalex> this dude is definitely right about horizontal renderer for the music lens
<davidcalle> jcastro, porting from natty to oneiric should be rather easy now. I will make a branch for the askubuntu one if I have the time before Oneiric comes out.
<gord> lamalex, saw that yesterday, fixed in a branch waiting review
<lamalex> link?
<jcastro> davidcalle: easy? kenvandine told me it was basically a rewrite?
<davidcalle> jcastro, don't know. I'm making packages right now. :)
<jcastro> if it's easy then whoo hoo!
<jcastro> hey njpatel, after we install a new lens do we still need to log out/in?
<njpatel> jcastro, right now, yeah
<njpatel> jcastro, can you file a bug about that and assign to me please?
<jcastro> I did last cycle
<jcastro> I can find it and ask harder. :)
<lamalex> hey davidcalle where is the code for thatbooks lens
<lamalex> gord, got a link to that branch? ill give you a review
<gord> lamalex, https://code.launchpad.net/~gordallott/unity/new_dash_icon_size/+merge/75036
<jcastro> njpatel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/606277
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 606277 in unity "Allow dynamic Lens loading" [High,Triaged]
<jcastro> it doesn't let me assign it to you in the upstream Unity project
<davidcalle> lamalex, https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/unity-books-lens/oneiric-first-draft Fresh fro today, but it's missing a lot of comments.
<davidcalle> from
<lamalex> thanks
<davidcalle> Hey Jono, got a PPA for you.
<jono> davidcalle, nice!
<jono> davidcalle, could you email me all the details and a screenshot
<jono> and let me know how you would like people to get involved and participate
<davidcalle> jono, will do.
<jono> thanks davidcalle!
<jcastro> davidcalle: Stefano will update his eventually, it's the reddit one that is basically unmaintained if you're looking for one to work on next
<davidcalle> jcastro, why not, I'm not a big reddit user myself, but I could give it a try. ;-)
<jcastro> https://launchpad.net/reddit-lens
<andreasn> jono, the bugs in http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/14/thunderbird-in-ubuntu-11-10/ did any of them end up in the mozilla bugzilla or did they get stuck in Launchpad?
<didrocks> jono: now that there is ligthning (the calendar) installed, you should add to the list that "accepting a meeting in the thunderbird view write "Event added to the calendar" without working btw
<didrocks> andreasn: not sure if you are interested in this kind of feedback on a popular extension ^
<AlanBell> didrocks: works for me
<didrocks> AlanBell: hum, that's weird, I tried twice today without any success
<didrocks> AlanBell: latest oneiric as well I guess?
<AlanBell> actually no, I will test on Oneiric in a sec
<didrocks> AlanBell: ah, keep me posted! :-)
<davidcalle> AlanBell, I got what you were looking for yesterday, a python lens with packaging : https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/unity-books-lens/oneiric-first-draft
<AlanBell> awesome
<davidcalle> AlanBell, the packaging is poor, I'm not used to debianazing stuff, but it builds.
<AlanBell> I will have a go at writing the appmenu lens in it, my fork of the vala apps lens is a bit messy
<davidcalle> AlanBell, nice!
<jono> andreasn, not sure if those are upstream in Mozilla
<jono> didrocks, is lightning now shipping in 11.10?
<andreasn> jono, I looked through the list, it seems one of them is
<didrocks> jono: it's there by default, with the issue I noticed aboved
<jono> oh cool
<jono> I will upgrade
<jono> man Unity is *really* crashy for me
<jono> whenever I use the Alt-Tab or Switcher
<jono> it is constantly crashing and restarting
<Andy80> let's try to ask this again: is anyone working on the "not visible cursor" in Oneiric login textbox?
<lamalex> gord, approved that merge
<lamalex> looks/works
<lamalex> hey davidcalle how did you get the author in your books lens?
<lamalex> is it in the comments?
<lamalex> doesn't show up for me in music
<davidcalle> lamalex, Yep. Of course, you have to use the Horizontal renderer for it to show.
<lamalex> yah
<lamalex> hm weird..
<gord> lamalex, awesome, thanks
<davidcalle> lamalex : model.append (uri, icon, category,"text/html", title, author, uri)
<davidcalle> lamalex, and I believe the last uri is the one used for a drag'n'drop
<lamalex> davidcalle, weird, this is what i get http://ubuntuone.com/737Zlvs3wUiHn8ex4eTq3t
<lamalex> njpatel, gord ^ possibility it's broken in the vala api?
<gord> lamalex, shouldn't be, i mean you are just appending info to a dee model right?
<lamalex> indeed
<lamalex> it's odd that it's not rendering it..
<gord> lamalex, it needs to be in the comments field
<lamalex> it is
<gord> hrm maybe its a bug on my side, its been a while since i'v seen the horizontal renderer, gwibber was the only thing using it and gwibber was broke
<lamalex> maybe davidcalle was using 2d
<lamalex> i think it's a bug on your side
<lamalex> gord, is the renderer in unity proper?
<lamalex> (would assume so)
<gord> lamalex, yeah it was, fixed it, method was not virtual when it should of been
<lamalex> :)
<lamalex> rad
<lamalex> pushed to trunk?
<gord> i'm not that quick :P
<lamalex> damn, grandpa gord over here
<gord> lamalex, actually i need to make this change depend on the earlier change you reviewed (because that fixes the segfault in the horizontal renderer). so i can't merge this until tomorrow some time :( sorry
<lamalex> gord, just merge the branch from earlier
<lamalex> or heck ill merge your branch
<gord> lamalex, thats blocked on an earlier branch that needs some re-thinking
<gord> else i would
<lamalex> ha
<lamalex> ok
<gord> i'll get this up in a merge request so you have something you can build yourself and work with though, two minutes
<gord> lamalex, https://code.launchpad.net/~gordallott/unity/fix-horizontal-renderer/+merge/75227 :)
<gord> -> out
<Kaleo> Trevinho: https://code.launchpad.net/~fboucault/unity-2d/panel_no_crash_at_logout/+merge/75233 :)
<Trevinho> Good Kaleo it's working as I expected! :)
<jcastro> Heya Kaleo
<jcastro> is setting hide_mode and use_strut in gconf still the way to turn off autohide in 2d?
#ayatana 2011-09-14
<oSoMoN> good morning
<Saviq> hello
<apinheiro> njpatel, one question, looking at this method QuicklistView::IsMenuItemSeperator(int index)
<apinheiro> and at the objects
<apinheiro> it seems that a quicklistmenu item can have a label, no matters if it is a quicklistmenuitemlabel or  not
<apinheiro> right?
<apinheiro> hmm, the question is not really clear
<apinheiro> can I assume that only quicklistmenuitemseparator will be a separator?
<njpatel> apinheiro, yes, you can assume that safely :)
<apinheiro> njpatel, ok, thanks
<nigelb> njpatel: Heya! Do you think you'd have time to give a session at User Days about Unity Lenses? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<nigelb> (Mostly about using)
<njpatel> nigelb, I _should_ be able to, but I'm not sure if I'm away those days, let me find out and get back to dyou
<nigelb> njpatel: Great! Thanks. Once you're sure you can pick a slot yourself or just let me know whats a convinient time :)
<Saviq> any comments on whether that's a sane approach http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/689057/ to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/801073 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 801073 in unity-2d "[dash] Dash is shown when pressing and releasing quickly super+KEY" [High,Triaged]
<Saviq> what I'm yet unsure how to follow on, are custom shortcuts for other LauncherItems
<Saviq> and now that I think about it, it won't help with shortcuts interpreted outside of the launcher :/
<Saviq> e.g. what's mentioned on the bug - using Super+Tab to switch between windows
<Saviq> Kaleo: ^
<Kaleo> Saviq: that won't do it unfortunately
<Kaleo> Saviq: it has to work for any key press happening at the same time as the super tap
<Kaleo> Saviq: that is, for keys that Unity 2D does not control
<Saviq> yeah I know
<Kaleo> Saviq: just read your comment :)
<Kaleo> Saviq: ok :)
<Saviq> ah so you mean if during SuperkeyHeld
<Saviq> any other key is pressed
<Saviq> just ignore that
<Kaleo> Saviq: yes
<Saviq> so we need to monitor all the other keypresses
<Kaleo> Saviq: for example, some laptops for some reason use Super+L for switching video output
<Kaleo> Saviq: that's right
<Kaleo> Saviq: and we don't want the dash to show up when the user presses Super+L quickly
<Saviq> yeah obviously
<Saviq> ok, on it
<Kaleo> Saviq: thanks
<smoser> my unity-2d-panel right now is taking up 865M resident
<smoser> I'm running 'system-load-indicator', could that possibly causing leaks in unity-panel-2d ?
<greyback> mardy, hey would you like me to review the grid_view stuff you did?
<mardy> greyback: sure, you're most welcome! :-)
<greyback> mardy, ok, I wasn't certain what "Abstain" meant
<mardy> greyback: I accidentally set it on "resubmit" myself, then I didn't find a way to remove my own review, so I changed it to "abstain" :-)
<greyback> mardy: aha, see :)
<greyback> mardy, interestingly, you've also managed to fix something I just logged: bug:850036
<mardy> greyback: good to know! :-)
<greyback> mardy: hmmm, no, not quite :(
<mardy> greyback: I hope it doesn't make it worse, at least :-)
<greyback> mardy: it's working a lot better anyway. That was a nasty bug
<greyback> mardy: oh you're really gonna hate me now!
<mardy> greyback: maybe ;-)
<davidcalle> Kaleo, hi
<Kaleo> davidcalle: hi
<davidcalle> Kaleo, are you the one who implemented the HorizontalRenderer in Unity-2D?
<Kaleo> davidcalle: yep
<davidcalle> Kaleo, great, I have a small problem with it, non square images are enlarged to fit the tile http://ubuntuone.com/4hJIk1CeAboeNXsKv0T1ZP
<davidcalle> Kaleo, do you want a proper bug report on this?
<Kaleo> davidcalle: I'm not sure I see the non square case in that screenshot
<Kaleo> davidcalle: definitely, a bug report would be grand
<greyback> Kaleo: "would be grand" :P
<davidcalle> Kaleo, silly me, it sure could be useful to provide you a reference... Same icons with the vertical renderer http://ubuntuone.com/1SSTc5J23VFLFK5piS9GAD Bug report on its way, thanks a lot :-)
<Kaleo> greyback: :p
<Kaleo> davidcalle: got it :)
<Kaleo> davidcalle: excellent, thank you for that
<cyphermox> mpt: hey
<cyphermox> mpt: can I get your opinion of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/834495 ? better to have icons that are almost invisible in some themes, or no icons at all?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 834495 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Edit Connections tabs have wrong-color mono icons" [Medium,In progress]
<cyphermox> unfortunately special-casing the icons to ship dark when the theme is light and the other way around would be complicated
<OwaisL> In some cases especially with the panel at some level of transparency. Mono icons become invisible when opening the dash as the panel changes colour too. Usually happens with light panel+dark icons
<mpt> cyphermox, that's a false choice, it works in 11.04
<mpt> and I'm pretty sure there was a bug report about it previously
<cyphermox> mpt what do you mean?
<cyphermox> it "works" in as much as the icons are already there, but afaik they would be just as not very visible
<mpt> Basically the menu should be using -symbolic, which mono provides, while the Edit Connections window uses the standard icons that don't
<cyphermox> -symbolic?
<mpt> "don't" = "mono doesn't provide, I mean
<cyphermox> both things use the exact same icons
<mpt> cyphermox, exactly, they shouldn't
<cyphermox> this is done because normally the icons will match the theme throughout, what nm-connection-editor does is ask what theme is used, that's all
<mpt> cyphermox, what does it do with that information?
<cyphermox> well, just get the theme used, to know what the icon theme is, then load the icon from that theme
<mpt> cyphermox, why does it do that? Why doesn't it just use the icon name?
<cyphermox> mpt, it's equivalent. just getting the icon name will also get the one from the current theme
<cyphermox> you ask for the icon name, the theme will be used unless the icon is unavailable, then it will start to use fallbacks
<cyphermox> however the icon *is* always availa
<cyphermox> because it's the same as we use for the indicator icons
<cyphermox> (or largely the same, especially for wired)
<mpt> cyphermox, what are the names of the icons used?
<cyphermox> nm-device-whatever; so -wired, -wireless, -wwan and -unknown, IIRC
<cyphermox> -unknown is a possibility but should never be reached, so we can safely forget it
<cyphermox> oh, I forgot -vpn
<mpt> cyphermox, so, the mono themes should provide, and the network menu should be using, -wired-symbolic, -wireless-symbolic, -wwan-symbolic, etc
<mpt> cyphermox, then Humanity or Hicolor should provide, and the Edit Connections window should be using, -wired, -wireless, -wwan, etc.
<cyphermox> can you point me to where this symbolic stuff is defined? I know nothing of it and it all sounds a little confusing
<cyphermox> e.g. defined as in documented
<mpt> Depending on the age of the code it might be using -panel rather than -symbolic
<mpt> aha
<cyphermox> I can't find anywhere on my system an icon named -symbolic (and -panel has *very few*)
<mpt> cyphermox, bug 541882 is where the equivalent bug was fixed for the Sound Preferences.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 541882 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu) "Ambiance panel-style volume icons look ghostly elsewhere" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/541882
<mpt> Looks like maybe it is supposed to be -panel, to avoid clashing with future -symbolic icons that work differently.
<mpt> cyphermox, oh, snap
<mpt> we commented at the same time
<cyphermox> d oh
<cyphermox> :)
<cyphermox> well, I understand it better now, though I'm pretty unhappy that this means yet more delta from upstream and debian
<cyphermox> but I think with careful work, this can be corrected
<mpt> cyphermox, there shouldn't be any delta except in the menu, which is all delta anyway, right?
<mpt> And why do you need new icons at all?
<cyphermox> mpt: less and less
<cyphermox> I'm working on getting the patches upstream
<mpt> Well then, even in the menu, exactly the same code would work regardless of theme
<mpt> If you're using an icon theme that doesn't have -panel icons, it falls back to the standard ones
<cyphermox> well, seems to me like it should be new icons, ubuntu-mono needs to have a dark version of say, nm-device-wired, and a light version. the light one will be used in the panel, the dark one in the UI.
<cyphermox> past that I don't really care much how they are done or what the name is, as long as it's implementable in code and doesn't destroy other themes
<mpt> cyphermox, are you sure that Humanity or Hicolor or something else in the fallback stack doesn't have them already?
<cyphermox> pretty sure
<mpt> cyphermox, well if they don't, why doesn't it malfunction upstream?
<mpt> Does upstream have versions of Humanity or Hicolor that have more icons than ours?
<cyphermox> hicolor just has colored icons, and that works no matter if your panel is dark or light
<mpt> cyphermox, right, that's what you want here
<mpt> Again comparing to the Sound Preferences, the volume icons there are slightly colored too
<cyphermox> but the name of the icon used in the code is always the same here, I use nm-device-wired for both the panel and connection editor, that's how it's done upstream
<mpt> cyphermox, exactly!
<mpt> cyphermox, so step 1, change the names in the menu code, adding -panel
<mpt> Step 2, change the names in the mono theme, again adding -panel
<mpt> The Edit Connections window code remains unchanged
<cyphermox> mkay, now this makes sense
<cyphermox> mpt: finally, you know the icons will look different in ubuntu-mono and humanity at least for wired?
<cyphermox> in ubuntu-mono we have arrows, in humanity what I find now is two connectors of some sort, looks a bit like a belt
<mpt> cyphermox, if anything, that's a feature ... Mono's wired icon is not very good :-)
<cyphermox> alright.
<cyphermox> care to update the bug so that it's clear as you described it above?
<mamed> hey
<smoser> is unity-2d-panel leaking extremely badly for others ?
<mamed> guys
<mamed> i removed unity it was so slow but i loved global menu . i want it back (i mean global menu) can you help me?
<smoser> I'm using 4.6.1-0ubuntu1, its been up for < 8 hours, and sucking 1.1G resident.
<smoser> Kaleo, ^ ?
<mamed> noone will help i think
<smoser> mamed, you could try unity-2d. i dont think that the unity panel was expected to function without the rest.
<htorque> smoser: is it unity-2d-panel or the unity-panel-service (bug 835646)?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835646 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak when starting various applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835646
<smoser> unity-2d-panel is what shows in top
<htorque> ok, then that's not that
<smoser> i run 'system-load-indicator' which might be what differenciates me from stock
<smoser> i just killed unity-2d-panel, and quit the system-load-indicator. i'll see if that is less leaky
<htorque> smoser: i'm running that here as well, though using normal unity. haven't seen it leaking.
<smoser> well, its visably still leaking for me. started off at 32M resident, its alrady up to 46M in 10 minutes.
<Kaleo> smoser: hi, let me see
<Kaleo> smoser: that's not good, can you file a report with the specifics of your configuration please?
<smoser> Kaleo, what sort of specifics ?
<smoser> bug 850320 opened
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 850320 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "bad memory leak in unity-2d-panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850320
<htorque> smoser: that gotta be similar to bug 835646 - you can trigger the memory raise by opening any program
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 835646 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service memory leak when starting various applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835646
<htorque> e.g., check mem usage, run start and quit gimp, check mem usage again
<smoser> hm... htorque i dont know. i dont start a lot of GUI problems.
<smoser> programs.
<smoser> i dont actually think i've *started* an X11 program in the last 15 minutes
<smoser> i do use 'gnome-open' fairly extensively though for opening urls in firefox.
<htorque> smoser: maybe just coincidence, will monitor it a bit and confirm if it raises on without any action.
<smoser> well its hard to do *no* action
<smoser> :)
<htorque> heh, true
<smoser> for one, you just made my launcher panel come out, and the indicator panel light up by saying my name
<smoser> i'll let others figure out if its a dupe or not.
<htorque> smoser: did you switch between windows a couple of times during that period? seems to raise on every switch here (~500kb each time).
<smoser> yeah. switching desktops seems to make it leak
<macer1> Hi. What is ayatana doing exactly? I mean...is it managing Ubuntu look and feel and thinks like that?
<macer1> ?
<Omega> macer1: it tries to improve the user experience of ubuntu and applications on ubuntu
<macer1> cool :D
<Omega> so yes look and feel are all part of what ayatana does
<Omega> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana
<macer1> I am running oneiric now. Ayatana made very good work on imporiving user experience :)
<Omega> :)
<macer1> i want to report a bug about some dropped gestures/keys like Ctrl+D in compare to natty. does it affect ayatana or only unity?
<macer1> maybe ayatana deleted Ctrl+D to show desktop, to give better user experience :D
<Omega> macer1: yes it affects ayatana
<Omega> if it is a design change, it affects ayatana
<macer1> hmm...is there a list of changes like that?
<jderose> tedg: what's the correct, modern way to save and restore an app's window size and position?
<tedg> jderose, Great question :-)
<tedg> jderose, It seems to be falling on apps to do today, but my personal believe is the WM/session manager should help there.
<jderose> hehe
<tedg> jderose, But they're not today.
<tedg> belief
<jderose> yeah, it does seems like a weird thing for the app to manage... so that being the case, how should an app to this?  what's "the tedg way"? :)
<tedg> jderose, You can just grab your position from you window and restore it.  Honestly, i think you probably should just have a good default.
<jderose> yeah
<tedg> It's quick to maximize, which is really what most people want anyway.
<tedg> Especially with a video editor.
<jderose> yeah :)
<jderose> tedg: so just call Window.maximize() before I call Window.show_all()?
#ayatana 2011-09-15
<slide> Every time I select a launched program from the unity bar that has more than 1 window open it always brings a different window to the top, but still gives the original window focus
<slide> is there any way to fix this?
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<kamstrup> JohnLea: hey, I am just reviewing lamalex' U1 Music scope, and I was wondering whether or not it was the intention that results from the music scope should show up in the global dash search?
<kamstrup> JohnLea: I am thinking that the results from your own collection could make sense, but the U1 store results not so. Especially because they may contain explicit names an cover art
<JohnLea> kamstrup; yes the Dash home should display music search results.  However the Dash Home should never display results that have transaction latency from any of the lenses (see section 3.7, 2.2.2, and 2.2.1 in the "Unity Dash" spec doc)
<JohnLea> kamstrup; this means that the dash home should not display music that is available for purchase, or apps that our available to download
<JohnLea> kamstrup; basically, everything that appears in the Dash home should be instantly available if a user clicks on it
<JohnLea> kamstrup; so music from spotify that is displayed in the music lens would also be displayed in the Dash home, but music available to purchase would not
<JohnLea> kamstrup; the Dash home is focused on retrieval, the individual lenses do both retrieval and browsing
<JohnLea> kamstrup; does that answer your question?
<kamstrup> JohnLea: yep, that's super. Thanks
<didrocks> kamstrup: can we make the libunity and u-l-a/u-l-f releases now? that will still be that already done and things to not cared too much about then :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: let me check... The U1 scope has unearthed some "interesting features" in lbunity ;-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i'll go over any pending branches now, and hopefully release in ~30min if everything is smooth sailing
<didrocks> kamstrup: not "if", eveyrthing *will be* smooth :-)
<didrocks> *jedi wave*
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> kamstrup: wait, I have maybe a last minute fix for u-l-a
<didrocks> kamstrup: no, that's fine ;)
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok - so here's the stinker... :-)
<didrocks> no stinker :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: *strictly* speaking there is an ABI break in libunity today. But it is in the "private parts" (pun intended)
<kamstrup> didrocks: so it does not affect anything
<didrocks> kamstrup: you mean, in the pimpl?
<kamstrup> didrocks: but jusy to warn you if some of your scripts starts detecting this
<kamstrup> didrocks: vala has the notion of "internal" functions
<kamstrup> didrocks: they are not exposed in the public header, but still to be found as a symbol in the .so
<didrocks> how does it implements it, it's not exposed to the application (like, in a struct or whatever)
<didrocks> ok :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i needed to change the signature of some of these internal functions
<didrocks> this is not a removed member
<didrocks> only functions
<didrocks> so, no "object size change"
<kamstrup> didrocks: so maybe, some abi checker scripts will complain, but it should be "this is not the abi break you're looking for"
<didrocks> kamstrup: sounds good, I'll tell you if my scripts complain :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i don't think object sizes are affected
<didrocks> so should be good, I'll launch the old lenses with it
<kamstrup> didrocks: i have been running with the new libunity and everything else from repos the past 30 minutes, and everything works like a charm
<kamstrup> launcher count+progress, all lenses etc
<didrocks> kamstrup: excellent, thanks for checking it! :-)
<kamstrup> So thunderbird, update-manager, and lenses definitely don't cause problems
<didrocks> yeah, ok, let's consider it's fine then :)
<kamstrup> so that covers dl-opening in GI and dynamic linking
<kamstrup> yes
<kamstrup> didrocks: ok, i'' start rolling libunity now then
<didrocks> yes! :)
<om26er> there are alot of problems with minimized windows previews in Unity disabling it just makes things work, might be wise to turn the feature off
<kamstrup> didrocks: https://launchpad.net/libunity/4.0.0/4.0.4 !
<didrocks> kamstrup: thanks!
<didrocks> hey om26er, I remember seeing some activity on bug reports about it, can you refresh what's the issue?
<davidcalle> kamstrup, hi, do you have time for a scopes question?
<kamstrup> didrocks: catch this! https://launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/trunk/0.4.6
<kamstrup> davidcalle: always dude :-)
<davidcalle> kamstrup, thanks :-)
<davidcalle> Kamstrup, I use a single local scope, merging local and remote sources. Each one uses its own dash category and my "on_search_changed" looks like this :
<didrocks> kamstrup: got it! (yeah, we are very away one from each other, so time to wait for the velocity of the tarball to arrive ;))
<davidcalle> results = scope.props.results_model; results.clear(); update_res_model (search, results, 0) (0 is the first cat); results.flush_rev_queue(); update_res_model (searc, res, 1); search_finished()
<davidcalle> kamstrup, results.flush_rev_queue() doesn't seem to do anything.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: what do you expect it to do?
<davidcalle> kamstrup, to display results from cat 0 immediately as they are locals, then bother about remote sources in cat 1.
<davidcalle> kamstrup, that's how I used it in natty, it worked.
<kamstrup> didrocks: and the last one from me today! https://launchpad.net/unity-lens-files/trunk/0.6.6
<didrocks> kamstrup: rock and rolled (tarballs)! thanks :)
<kamstrup> davidcalle: ok, libdee hasn't really changed much since Natty, so there should be no change there
<kamstrup> didrocks: and not post release version bump today
<kamstrup> !
<didrocks> kamstrup: I LOVE YOU! :-)
<kamstrup> davidcalle: have you tried looking at this in dbus-monitor?
<davidcalle> kamstrup, nope, but I will.
<davidcalle> kamstrup, http://paste.ubuntu.com/689925/ here is the whole method, maybe you'll see a mistake.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: since unity is *very* chatty on the bus, you might wanna run it like : dbus-monitor 'interface=com.canonical.Dee.Model'
<kamstrup> davidcalle: this way you see only what is transmitted on the dee models, not all the noise
<davidcalle> kamstrup, ok
<kamstrup> davidcalle: you wanna chewck how many Commit signals they send
<kamstrup> davidcalle: the contents of the Commit signals should correspond to a "diff" that unity should apply to its view
<davidcalle> kamstrup, so, if I search for "mo" then "moby", the "moby dick" item shouldn't be reloaded, right. On Unity-2d it flickers like it's being reloaded.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: it will be reloaded. the unity shell can not assume that it can simply filter the query
<davidcalle> Ok
<kamstrup> davidcalle: consider doing the same search on google... that would give very different results for each query
<davidcalle> kamstrup, indeed.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: but you can make that optimization inside your lens if you want. In fact the old apps and files lenses from way back in maverick did this if i recall correctly
<kamstrup> but it was some tricky bok keeping
<kamstrup> and it's buggy by design, unless you can retrieve the *entire* result set for the query "mo*" in the first run
<kamstrup> which you rarely can for any non-trvial sized corpus
<kamstrup> also if you have relevancy ranked sources the query "moby" and "moby dick" will sort very differently, hence simple filtering does not apply
<davidcalle> kamstrup, what I do is applying different regex on the results before passing them to unity : I extend lists of items matching exactly the query, then matching the beginning of the forts word, the beginning of another word, etc.
<davidcalle> first*
<davidcalle> kamstrup, if I send flush_rev_queue after each model.append, does it should load results as soon as they are appended to the model?
<kamstrup> davidcalle: yes, but only do that if you have at least 100ms or so between each append()
<kamstrup> davidcalle: otherwise you'll just be spamming the bus and slowing yourself (and everyone else) down
<davidcalle> kamstrup, ok, I'm going to test this with a sleep after append then flush_rev_queue. To see if it works.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: really, you should insert a sleep(99999999999), then switch to dbus-monitor when it sleeps and assert that the Commit signal has hit the bus
<kamstrup> if not, then it's a bug in libdee
<davidcalle> kamstrup, doing model.append; model.flush_rev_q; time.sleep(1) : I see my results slowly being loaded in dbus-monitor, but nothing showing up in the dash until the whole queue has been passed to dee.
<kamstrup> davidcalle: then the bug is in the dash - is it u2d or u3d?
<davidcalle> kamstrup, 2d
<kamstrup> davidcalle: if you have problems testing in u3d, I can give it a spin for you if you give me a branch
<davidcalle> kamstrup, will test in a moment.
<davidcalle> kamstrup, same thing in 3d.
<davidcalle> kamstrup, my branch is here https://code.launchpad.net/~davidc3/unity-books-lens/oneiric-first-draft
<davidcalle> kamstrup, if you happen to check it, sorry for the dirty code, I'm rather new at python. ;-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: !!! you didn't bump the libunity build-dep on u-p-f! I trusted you even if I remarked it that you didn't use the new API :-)
<didrocks> u-l-f, sorry
<kamstrup> didrocks: argh! FAIL!
<didrocks> kamstrup: I was really thinking "if kamstrup didn't bump the build-depp, there sould be a reason and it doesn't use the API, let's trust him"
<didrocks> kamstrup: i'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo disppointed :)
<didrocks> disappointed*
<om26er> Trevinho, did you fix bug 838923 in your branch?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 838923 in unity (Ubuntu) "Start dragging a maximized application title causes it to re-decorate" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838923
<om26er> it seems sam fixed something similar in compiz bug 850985 (or was it the other end of the bug?)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 850985 in unity "dragging a window to the top while maximized gives it double borders" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850985
<om26er> didrocks, Hi I have assigned bug 848707 to you is that fine?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 848707 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "clicking twice on expo in unity launcher takes you to a different workspace" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848707
<om26er> the fix is in comment#2
<and471> tedg, ping
<didrocks> om26er: you should dup it to bug #837545 where a fix should land today
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 837545 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Spread - center the workspace switcher to account for the launcher and pane" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837545
<om26er> done, thx
<tedg> Uhg, seems I missed him.
<nhaines> I'm having a very difficult time with Unity2D right now.  GNOME Terminal windows are behaving rather strangely.
<nhaines> http://ubuntuone.com/69wKSZ0tVZMO2rcz7Yggxn
<nhaines> There's no alpha transparency around the title bar, they are always on top of *everything* (right-click menus on title bar, Alt-Tab switcher in Unity, etc.).
<nhaines> When I switch to another app, GNOME Terminal covers the app but is not active.  It can be clicked right through.
<nhaines> This is subobtimal.  :)
<apinheiro> didrocks, could increase the importance for this bug:
<apinheiro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/851103?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 851103 in unity "a11y support on Unity is broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<apinheiro> I can'Â¡t do that
<didrocks> apinheiro: sure, doing
<apinheiro> didrocks, ok, thanks
<didrocks> apinheiro: targeted for O, thanks
<apinheiro> didrocks, ok, I have just found a solution, and it is a two-line branch
<apinheiro> so it shouldn't be a problem to solve it
<apinheiro> I mean, shouldn't be a problem to merge it
<apinheiro> didrocks, btw, what means p-series?
<didrocks> apinheiro: next release (o -> oneiric; p -> we don't have the name yet ;))
<didrocks> apinheiro: I just misclicked!
<apinheiro> didrocks, ok
<jjohansen> unity is completely broken again after todays update (say about 30 min ago)
<jjohansen> it just dies on startup
<didrocks> jjohansen: do you have a backtrace?
<didrocks> jjohansen: and what did you updated last, nux is just published
<jjohansen> didrocks: no back trace, nothing in dmesg, /var/crash or /var/log that I can see
<didrocks> jjohansen: looks weird then, did you have to --reset ?
<didrocks> jjohansen: or just launch first "unity" from a tty?
<jjohansen> I am in 2D atm but once I get a couple things done will reboot and try again, it failed every time I tried though and I tried with older kernels to see if the problem was there
<jjohansen> didrocks: not in unity,
<jjohansen> I haven't tried launching it from a terminal yet
<jjohansen> I need to get a few things setup before I take this machine down again
<htorque> hm, a reboot fixed that for me today. restarting didn't work, unity just died.
<jjohansen> didrocks: I'll have more info in say 15min, and I'll drop the bug# here
<didrocks> jjohansen: sure (not sure to be there in 15min TBH, but do not hesitate to ping me)
<jjohansen> didrocks: okay
<davidcalle> gord, hi
<andyrock> anyone has this problem?
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/851172
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 851172 in unity "Drag and drop inside dash is very slow with Active Blur activated" [Undecided,New]
<htorque> andyrock: it's definitely lagging behind the mouse cursor here
<htorque> let me test w/o blur
<andyrock> htorque, thx
<andyrock> confirm the bug please
<htorque> static blur is fine
<andyrock> i don't know the right person which it must be assigned
<andyrock> jaytaoko maybe
<davidcalle> gord, hi, should I assign this bug 851196 to you?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 851196 in unity "Non-square dash items are stretched to a 1:1 ratio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851196
<slide> Every time I select a launched program from the unity bar that has more than 1 window open it always brings a different window to the top, but still gives the original window focus
<slide> is there any way to fix this?
<jjohansen> slide: not that I know of
<jjohansen> slide: what version are you running I don't think I have seen that one for awhile actually
<jjohansen> not that I pick windows that way because it has been so broken in the past
<andyrock> DBO, there are some issue due to the new policy of not hiding the dash when dnd starts
<DBO> andyrock, explain? :)
<DBO> it seems to work for me
<andyrock> right now i'm quite busy so i've solved just some of them
<andyrock> well the big one is that with active blur activated
<andyrock> is really really slow
<andyrock> the bugs i've solved is related to saturation/desaturation
<andyrock> of the launcher
<andyrock> DBO, i'm going to do a merge proposing right know but there are no bugs on lp
<DBO> andyrock, you are making it saturate again when DND starts?
<andyrock> yes....
<andyrock> there was a bug some time ago...
<DBO> andyrock, so the only technical issue is performance?
<andyrock> i'm not able to find it right now
<DBO> god I thought this was going to be more nasty ass race conditions...
<andyrock> DBO perfomance issue right know
<DBO> mine works fine :P
<andyrock> without "right know" sorry
<andyrock> i have not a Mac :)
<DBO> im surprised there is a performance issue actually
<andyrock> and when the dash is opened dropping a file into the launcher doesn't close the dash
<DBO> its not supposed to
<DBO> this way you can drag and drop several things
<andyrock> the dash doesn't close also when the spread is triggerd
<DBO> I want to kill that behavior...
<DBO> I think that behavior is SO dumb...
<andyrock> well i think that make sense do it only with app icons
<DBO> andyrock, how is performance on alt-tab for you?
<andyrock> DBO, it works really really fine
<DBO> so alt-tab is fast...
<DBO> even if you enter the spread mode?
<andyrock> yeah
<andyrock> spread mode in the alt-tab?
<DBO> down arrow
<andyrock> works fine too
<DBO> crazy
<andyrock> DBO https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/dnd-dash-saturation/+merge/75641
<DBO> andyrock, thanks
<DBO> I am looking at the perf now
<DBO> andyrock, want to do me a favor?
<andyrock> DBO, of course
<DBO> can you get me a sysprof output of the performance issue?
<andyrock> DBO give me a second and i will do it
<DBO> andyrock, I'll be here for quite a while still :)
<htorque> guess this is how the multiload indicator is supposed to look now: http://img.xrmb2.net/images/553098.png ?
<andyrock> DBO https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/851172
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 851172 in unity "Drag and drop inside dash is very slow with Active Blur activated" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<andyrock> attached there
<andyrock> I hope i've done it in the right way
<andyrock> it's my fisrt time with sysprof :)
<andyrock> *first
<DBO> :)
<DBO> thanks
<andyrock> and another bug (at least i mean) https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/851185
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 851185 in unity "When the dash is show, "dragging behind launcher" interaction should not be triggered" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> if you confirm it's a bug (maybe it's a weird design) i can assign it to myself
<htorque> andyrock: what should happen when you touch the left edge with the dragged item?
<andyrock> htorque, if the dash is open nothing
<htorque> here it saturates when i enter the launcher and desaturates when i leave it again
<andyrock> if the dash is not open the launcher should be hidden
<htorque> ah, i'm not using autohide !:-)
<andyrock> htorque, saturation bug is another one (i just did a mp)
<andyrock> htorque, you use never hide option?
<htorque> yeah, just switched to autohide and can confirm that now
<andyrock> htorque, it's very useful when the dash is not open
<andyrock> but if the dash is open it makes no sense IMHO
<andyrock> htorque, can you confirm it please?
<andyrock> DBO, just another thing (i've to study mathematical analysis then :/). We use g_file_query_info and g_file_get_content_type to get the data of the dragging stuff
<andyrock> sometimes (e.g. dragging firefox imgs) it takes too time (3-4 seconds) to do it
<DBO> I dont think so? do we?
<DBO> why would be doing that?
<DBO> oh mimes...
<DBO> right...
<andyrock> to get the data type of the dragging stuff sorry
<DBO> we need to make that async
<elleuca> hi, could someone take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-files/+bug/851359
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 851359 in unity-lens-files (Ubuntu) "Ellipsized values in size filter" [Undecided,New]
<htorque> can anyone explain, how this can be possible: the alt-tab preview of opera showed me the xchat window and doing 'killall opera' killed opera AND xchat. :-/
<DBO> htorque, thats cool!
<htorque> not if i cannot reproduce it ;)
#ayatana 2011-09-16
<didrocks> good morning
<Saviq> hello
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, the crash I can get easily has been duped to bug #840758
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840758
<didrocks> kamstrup: if you are interested, I got it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #851628 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> (dee_sequence_model_find_tag())
<kamstrup> didrocks: looking
<apinheiro> njpatel, I have a easy branch to review (two lines), could you take a look ?
<apinheiro> https://code.launchpad.net/~apinheiro/unity/Bug851103/+merge/75591
<njpatel> of course, looking now
<njpatel> apinheiro, approved, no need to wait for alex, feel free to merge it
<apinheiro> njpatel, ok, thanks
<didrocks> kamstrup: where did you see it has been freed?
<didrocks> kamstrup: oh, the tag address?
<kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, segv analysis
<kamstrup> didrocks: of course, it's just a guess
<kamstrup> didrocks: no, the tag address is actually a stuffed uint, so that one is ok
<didrocks> just a guess for the priv address then :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: but the segv analysis says: source "(%edx)" (0x00000006) not located in a known VMA region (needed
<kamstrup> didrocks: and on the crashing line we're accessing a GPtrArray 'row'
<kamstrup> didrocks: so it looks like 'row' may have been freed
<didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, indeed, but you don't know if it's self, out_row_tag or out_tag which is invalid, isnt it?
<didrocks> ah, the crashing line
<didrocks> ok, then, seems the row :)
 * didrocks didn't open the source
<kamstrup> didrocks: line 788 looks like this:
<kamstrup> row_tag_iter = g_ptr_array_index (row, n_cols);
<kamstrup> that's what gives the segv
<didrocks> yeah, I doubt n_cols is a pointer :)
<kamstrup> so really, only options is that 'row' is bad
<didrocks> indeed
<kamstrup> indeed
<kamstrup> indeed indeed
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, in this case, (the last crash I got)
<didrocks> it wasn't on a search result, it was when I expanded the result
<kamstrup> didrocks: with this trace?
<didrocks> kamstrup: well, from the duplicated one, yeah: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #851628 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> same line
<kamstrup> didrocks: i'll try adding some more fine grained tests to dee, and maybe add some clever detecting for access to freed values
<didrocks> kamstrup: indeed, but it would be good to know what freed those first
<didrocks> weird that I never ever triggered that and only with the new music lens, on u1 search
<kamstrup> didrocks: I've added a bunch of unit tests to dee but it seems rock solid. I also added some sanity checks in the code that should help pinpoint any problems
<didrocks> kamstrup: nice! but that only workarounds this issue isn't it?
<kamstrup> didrocks: do you want a release? We already have a heavily distro patched dee, and there is a fixed GI bug that hasn't been released either
<kamstrup> didrocks: it doesn't work around this issue, but it will help a great deal in nailing it down if we can't do it today
<didrocks> kamstrup: well, all upload needs to be approved and sign with blood, if it can't fix the issue but add more debugging for it, I'm happy to push to a ppa?
<didrocks> kamstrup: I mean, the user will still get the crash, isn't it?
<kamstrup> didrocks: to be precise: if/when we see the crash with this we can say with 99.9999% procent that it's because unity accesses a freed row
<didrocks> or just won't get the row because you check if it's freed?
<kamstrup> didrocks: or if you get the crash yourself, you can just run lp:dee/0.5 locally yourself
<njpatel> guys, it's unity :)
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, maybe it's better that I package that, keep debug symbols and report a stacktrace?
<kamstrup> didrocks: if you can get a trace with lp:dee/0.5 then that would be awesome
<kamstrup> didrocks: and capture xsessionerrors as well
<didrocks> kamstrup: sure
<kamstrup> njpatel: do you get the crasher yourself?
<didrocks> kamstrup: on it
<kamstrup> njpatel: yeah, but I added some sanity checks to dee to help pinpoint what exactly unity is doing :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: hum, is it building?
<didrocks> waow, this is a weird linkage issue
<didrocks> kamstrup: http://paste.ubuntu.com/690632/
<kamstrup> njpatel: i'll merge cimi's darken branch, ok?
<njpatel> kamstrup, yep, please
<didrocks> kamstrup: libdee-1.0.la isn't built, the message is real
<njpatel> "the message is real".
<didrocks> njpatel: I meant, it's not a path thing or the compiler is lying :)
<njpatel> THE COMPILER ALWAYS LIES
<kamstrup> >njdone
<kamstrup> "njpatel: done"
<kamstrup> didrocks: wtf?!
<didrocks> kamstrup: wondering, did I tell you that I always hate those .la stuff? :)
<didrocks> kamstrup: trying in a pbuilder, maybe I have a local .la installed which triggered a "I can't build .la files"
<kamstrup> didrocks: so are you compiling in some weird packaging setup or something?
<didrocks> kamstrup: no, we normally build everything, and at the end, we remove the .la file
<didrocks> kamstrup: but that's on the install part
<kamstrup> didrocks: i just double checked a clean lp:dee/0.5 checkout and it compiles without a hitch here
<didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, let's see how the pbuilder build will go
<greyback> mardy: hey I did a fresh checkout of your branch, and I can still reproduce that bug :(
<mardy> greyback: hi!
<greyback> mardy: anything I can do to help?
<mardy> greyback: maybe yes: when I first requested the merge, I wrote about a few lines of code to add in order to visually debug the issue
<mardy> greyback: you could add those lines, and take the video again
<greyback> mardy: no prob
<mardy> though I'm not sure it will be of help
<didrocks> kamstrup: FTBFS in a pbuilder as well
<kamstrup> didrocks: and there is no other error message anywhere?
<didrocks> kamstrup: no, it just doesn't build the .la file
<didrocks> kamstrup: one sec
<kamstrup> didrocks: and it's not because of some conflict with the distro patches? Ken put a tonne in there from trunk in order to get gwibber running
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/690641/
<AlanBell> I made a little video of using Unity in Oneiric with Orca http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unityorca.ogv not great.
<didrocks> kamstrup: I tried to rebuild the previous version (the one in Oneiric), same thing, I guess the issue is in something triggering/not triggering the .la buid
<didrocks> kamstrup: see my pastebin for the full build log
<didrocks> kamstrup: the previous successful build seems ok though https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75306938/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.dee_0.5.18-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<kamstrup> didrocks: not building the .la will definitely cause GI to fail as dee/Makefile.am declares --library=dee-1.0.la hard coded
<didrocks> kamstrup: indeed, I saw that
<kamstrup> I don't know if/how to solve that...
<didrocks> kamstrup: I'm just wondering why it doesn't, the last successfull build has exactly the same output
<didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, neither do I, I just know that .la are a PITA and it depends on other .la file in the distro
<kamstrup> didrocks: just toying with a solution, hang on
<kamstrup> didrocks: pull lp:dee/0.5
<didrocks> kamstrup: ahah nice trick!
<kamstrup> didrocks: i am breathlessly awaiting the trumpets heralding the success...
<didrocks> kamstrup: succes!
<didrocks> sucess*
<didrocks> even
<didrocks> success*
<didrocks> grrrrr :p
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, making it crash with that, one sec
<didrocks> kamstrup: will you need the backtrace again?
<kamstrup> didrocks: trace and xsessionerrors
<didrocks> oki
 * didrocks rebuilds quickly without stripping the symbols
<didrocks> kamstrup: interesting, so I have no crash from the music lens
<didrocks> kamstrup: but no cover
<kamstrup> didrocks: so you have generic icons for covers, or?
<didrocks> yeah, generic icons
<didrocks> and nothing in .xsession-errors
<kamstrup> didrocks: not impossible that the crasher is related to icon loading in fact
<didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, that would totally makes sense with what I observed
<kamstrup> didrocks: because the icon loading is async, it might be that we get some callback on the icons *after* a row has been removed, trying to access a tag
<didrocks> kamstrup: ahah, yeah! well thought :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: after a quick look at the unity code I am willing to bet this is it :-)
<kamstrup> gord: ^^ ?
<didrocks> kamstrup: it couldn't be dee, it's never dee! :-)
<kamstrup> gord any chance that the icon loader races in its callback to ResultRendererTile::IconLoaded with the removal of rows - making it access a removed DeeModelIter, and thus a freed DeeModelTag?
<gord> kamstrup, nope, unless there is a async timeframe between a row being removed from the model and the row-removed signal being called
<kamstrup> gord: there's not
<gord> kamstrup, we'll do a mumble about this once neil starts falling over, you should hop on
<kamstrup> gord: Dee.Model enmits row-removed and afterwards removes the row, in the same stack frame
<kamstrup> gord: here's the race i imagine:
<kamstrup> 1) user types "foo"
<kamstrup> 2) model populates
<kamstrup> 3) start loading icons
<kamstrup> 4) user quickly deletes an o -> "fo"
<kamstrup> 5) icon loading resulots from 3 arrives
<kamstrup> 6) kaboom
<gord> kamstrup, nope
<gord> kamstrup, when a row is removed, its icon loader slot is removed
<kamstrup> gord: there's no spin of the mainloop in the async icon loading?
<kamstrup> gord: oh
<kamstrup> gord: the stack trce on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/840758 seems to suggest you might not be correct in all circumstances
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged]
<kamstrup> this also makes perfect sense with that it's the slowly loaded http covers that triggers the bug
<gord> kamstrup, yup seen those, but literally i can't see any logic where that could happen, not dismissing the bug, its just not as obvious as you might think ;)
 * kamstrup hates non-obvious bugs
<kamstrup> :-)
<greyback> AlanBell: thanks for the video. You're using Unity-2D there, and yes accessibility still needs work.
<gord> course if this was gobject i could just FOO_IS_BAR on the damn thing and it would handle it all fine, but oh well ;)
<AlanBell> greyback: dammit, thought that was 3d!
<AlanBell> oh, 3d won't run in a live session, need guest additions for the drivers still
<greyback> AlanBell: yes unfortunately
<Kaleo> AlanBell: thanks for the video!
<AlanBell> I will do another video with it installed and running 3d
<Kaleo> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bugs?field.tag=a11y lists all the known accessibility bugs
<Kaleo> AlanBell: I have not finished watching the video but so far I think all the ones you spotted are reported and on the way to be fixed
<AlanBell> I filed a couple, I will reassign to unity-2d or close if they are duplicates
<Kaleo> AlanBell: thank you!
<AlanBell> wish we had the drivers for virtualbox guest on the CD
<mhr3> didrocks, is the desktop.*.cache file still used in oneiric?
<didrocks> mhr3: yeah, the patch has been ported AFAIK, but better to check with pitti on Monday
<mhr3> didrocks, ported in what way?
<didrocks> mhr3: ported to GNOME3?
<mhr3> ah, k
<Kaleo> mardy: I reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/unity-2d/rtl/+merge/71305
<Kaleo> mardy: thanks!
<mardy> Kaleo: great! I'll fix those things you mentioned, but the other two would be better reported as bugs, just to get this thing in :-)
<Kaleo> mardy: absolutely fine
<Kaleo> mardy: it's going to require a freeze exception to land that in Oneiric. Can you please make sure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess is followed?
<mardy> Kaleo: I'll try :-)
<Kaleo> see "UserInterfaceFreeze Exceptions"
<Kaleo> mardy: thank you
<jbicha> JohnLea: with bug 764744 are you intending to remove the System Settings link from the Session menu, or merely add System Settings to the launcher?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 764744 in unity "[UIFe] Add system setting icon to Launcher" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764744
<jjardon> tedg: hi, seems that https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-837440 was not merged but Its marked as that
<jjardon> tedg: also, I'd like to request a package for indicator-power, Is it kenvandine on holidays?
<tedg> jjardon, Yeah, he is.
<tedg> jjardon, The status is merged...
<mardy> greyback: hi, what happened to your MR about alf+f2? lp now cannot find the page
<greyback> mardy: I just saw what you were doing, and realised your fix was better :)
<mardy> greyback: I disagree :-)
<greyback> mardy: hmmm
<mardy> greyback: what's wrong with your fix? It's simpler and more clear
<greyback> mardy: true, but it requires reloading the lens, no?
<greyback> I figured your way was more efficient
<mardy> greyback: mmm... maybe
<jjardon> tedg: grep -r GnomeWall * doesnt return nothing here
<greyback> mardy: I'll resubmit it and let Florian choose?
<tedg> jjardon, Yes, so I merged it but had to back it out as the GNOME Wall clock isn't in the GTK2 version of the gnome libraries.
<tedg> jjardon, Also, I looked at the GNOME Wall clock code and it's doing the same things we are doing right now.
<mardy> greyback: yep
<mardy> greyback: but I really like yours better; even if mine were more efficient, it just seems reasonable to reset that field when deactivateLens is called
<jjardon> tedg: do we support timerfd?
<jjardon> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/commit/?id=5f65d7d58188ffc75ffded71c741892352411a0c
<greyback> mardy: ok so. I'll do merge request again (sorry for the noise).
<mardy> greyback: np. BTW, I want to ask you something:
<greyback> mardy: shoot
<mardy> greyback: press alt-f2, type "gedit", press enter
<mardy> then close gedit end repear
<mardy> does it work all the time?
<mardy> greyback: for me it works every other time
<mardy> greyback: bus I see with dbus-monitor that we are activating the lens item every time
<greyback> mardy: yeah you're right, it only works every second time. Hmmm
<tedg> jjardon, Not sure, but I think it makes more sense to wait for the GLib API (which would be stable) than using an unstable API.
<mardy> greyback: I went to debug unity-applications-daemon, but then I noticed that when it's started from the command line it always works :-O
<greyback> mardy: yuk. Did you see if it happens in Unity?
<mardy> greyback: no, I wrote to Mikkel (kamstrup) and he said that it works fine in Unity
<Kaleo> greyback, mardy: I am not sure what you guys are doing but one thing: the lenses are supposed to be stateful
<mardy> greyback: unfortunately I don't find him online ATM
<Kaleo> (they are not really right now)
<Kaleo> that is, keeping the current search and filters
<mardy> Kaleo: yep, the fix will make them more stateful :-)
<Kaleo> mardy: good :)
<greyback> mardy:  I just tried Unity (couple of days old, updating now) & get the same problem.
<mardy> greyback: good to know, thanks! I'll search LP to see if there's a bug reported
<tedg> jjardon, I think we could take the timerfd stuff if it's in the Ubuntu kernel, but I don't really want to depend on the unstable GTK3 only libs.
<greyback> mardy: no prob, that's a good catch
<jjardon> tedg: unstable GTK3 libs?
<tedg> jjardon, libgnome-desktop
<tedg> jjardon, The API for the wall clock is behind the UNSTABLE build flag, right?
<tedg> jjardon, Not unstable like buggy, unstable API
<Trevinho> tedg: this is something you should look I guess: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+bug/705653
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 705653 in unity (Ubuntu) "Menus for parent window are still present when dialog is focused" [High,Triaged]
<tedg> Trevinho, Yeah
<tedg> I forgot about that one :-/
<jjardon> tedg: ah, yeah. Well we can ifdef the code if you want and use  GnomeWallClock only if It's available. Using GnomeWallClock fix quite a lot of bugs in indicator-datetime
<Trevinho> tedg: read my last comment.. .I also experienced that when working with panel-service to add some optimizations...
<Trevinho> the dobule entry-added/removed signal was creating problems, so I had to use a workaround
<mardy> greyback: seems to be a gedit bug, other apps work fine
<tedg> jjardon, It seems like it'd be a smaller patch to just use timerfd directly, no?
<greyback> mardy: why didn't I try other apps??? gah!
<tedg> Trevinho, Yeah, I'm more worried about showing the menus.  They should be insensitive...
<tedg> Trevinho, But, yeah, we could optimize that case.
<tedg> Trevinho, Just in the code when it detects a switch it doesn't handle that case well.
<JohnLea> jbicha; the system settings link will remain in the Session menu, the change in that bug is in addition, not instead of
<Trevinho> tedg: I didn't look at the code (sorry), but maybe a small timeout on Window switch could help...
<mardy> greyback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/840097
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 827414 in gedit (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #840097 gedit fails to start on first try, but does on the second" [Medium,Confirmed]
<greyback> mardy: how bizarre
<Trevinho> Hi JohnLea please give a look to this too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/818788 ;)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 818788 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "The sequence of the applets should be easily editable by the user." [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<jbicha> JohnLea: thanks, since we're adding launcher items, how about bug 778289? :-)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 778289 in unity (Ubuntu) "Help button in Unity default launcher" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778289
<tedg> Trevinho, Well, FYI, it's this function, I think the comment pretty much addresses your issue: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-appmenu/trunk/view/head:/src/indicator-appmenu.c#L1085
<Kaleo> mardy: you seem to well understand what greyback did, how about you take care of the review?
<mardy> Kaleo: I'll approve it, then: for me it's fine
<Kaleo> mardy: great, thanks!
<Kaleo> mardy: I'm removing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/821919 from the milestone
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 821919 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Oneiric (live cd only): Alt+F2 sometimes not working in Unity 2D" [Medium,Triaged]
<mardy> Kaleo: no complaints from me :-)
<Kaleo> :)
<Kaleo> mardy, greyback, Saviq: when you send a MR out please make sure that somebody specific is assigned as a reviewer
<mardy> Kaleo: ack
<Kaleo> Saviq: replied with a fix to https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-2d/fix-panel-leak/+merge/75744
<mardy> Saviq: BTW, welcome! :-)
<Kaleo> chrisccoulson: for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 do you think we'll be able to get into Oneiric?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 804435 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [Low,Triaged]
<chrisccoulson> Kaleo, sure. i'd like upstream to comment first though
<Kaleo> chrisccoulson: great!
<Kaleo> Cimi: any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839611 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 839611 in unity-2d "menu is first displayed as part of nautilus' desktop window before being hosted by the top panel thus shifting the wallpaper during the startup sequence" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Cimi> Kaleo: yup
<Cimi> Kaleo: that's a bug somewhere in my gtk patch
<Cimi> Kaleo: I might need to rewrite it
<Cimi> Kaleo: the thing is that out current design fails with gtk+ architecture, that's why I couldn't come up with a solution to this yet
<Cimi> Kaleo: but I had an idea, probably worth spending some time trying that
<Kaleo> Cimi: I kind of see :)
<Kaleo> Cimi: what's your gtk patch?
<Cimi> Kaleo: the ubuntu menubar patch
<Cimi> Kaleo: what is different from natty is that I'm hiding the menubar widget
<Cimi> Kaleo: that works better in unity and unity-2d, but nautilus is suffering :-\
<Kaleo> Cimi: I understand better
<Kaleo> Cimi: do you intend to fix it soon?
<Kaleo> chrisccoulson: do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839610 has the same cause (and patch in GTK) as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 839610 in unity-2d "Background wallpaper briefly appears shifted horizontally by around 15 pixels on startup" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 804435 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [Low,Triaged]
<chrisccoulson> Kaleo, yeah, i think they're the same
<Kaleo> chrisccoulson: thanks a bunch
<Cimi> Kaleo: maybe next week I'll have a quick look
<Kaleo> Cimi: thanks, it's quite important
<Kaleo> Cimi: I'll mark GTK as affected and assign it to you
<Cimi> Kaleo: there's already a bug filed for that
<Kaleo> Cimi: oh, great, what's the bug number?
<Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/717358
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 717358 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Natty) "nautilus puts a menu bar at the top of the desktop" [Low,Fix released]
<Kaleo> Cimi: thanks
<Cimi> Kaleo: now affects gtk+3 too
<Kaleo> Cimi: should we reopen it then?
<Cimi> Kaleo: for oneiric
<Cimi> Kaleo: not sure I can fix that, though
<Cimi> Kaleo: Ill try with a workaround
<Kaleo> Cimi: it makes the login sequence very ugly
<Cimi> Kaleo: :-\
<Cimi> Kaleo: i didn0t write that patch
<Cimi> Kaleo: i just tweaked to hide the menubar
<Kaleo> Cimi: who wrote the patch in question?
<Cimi> Kaleo: I was aware of that bug, but hiding the menubar has benefits for the theme
<Cimi> Kaleo: the gtk menubar patch was written by cody russel
<Kaleo> Cimi: I see
<Cimi> Kaleo: our mistake is that we show the menubar if the appmenu is not running, for fallback
<Kaleo> Cimi: even for the Nautilus desktop window I guess?
<Cimi> Kaleo: we should instead remove the menubar totally, like switching it off for the whole experience, and leave it enabled just in classic mode
<Cimi> Kaleo: the nautilus desktop window is just nautilus I guess, we can't hide for it
<Cimi> Kaleo: otherwise nautilus won't have the menubar
<Kaleo> Cimi: should not Nautilus have a piece of code that makes sure no menubar is created for the desktop window?
<Cimi> maybe
<Kaleo> tedg: what do you think? ^
<Kaleo> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/839611
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 839611 in unity-2d "menu is first displayed as part of nautilus' desktop window before being hosted by the top panel thus shifting the wallpaper during the startup sequence" [Medium,Confirmed]
<tedg> Kaleo, Yes, there's a bug to update the patch for that.
<Kaleo> tedg: great! do you have the number?
<tedg> Kaleo, bug 805252
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 805252 in nautilus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "appmenu shows nautilus menu when desktop is displayed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805252
<Kaleo> tedg: thanks a lot!
<htorque> is there a small 101 on how to compile unity-2d from source?
<andyrock> htorque, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
<andyrock> btw it's quite easy
<andyrock> cmake .
<andyrock> make
<andyrock> ;)
<htorque> andyrock: oops, i think i should have found that via google :D
<htorque> thanks! ;)
<andyrock> htorque, ubuntu wiki is not so google friend
<htorque> andyrock: there's nothing i need to build prior to unity-2d?
<andyrock> no idea about this
<andyrock> htorque, btw i think sudo apt-get build-dep unity-2d
<htorque> i'll see if it explodes or not ;-)
<andyrock> ;)
<Ndhb> hi! I want to start developing and porting lenses for unity in python, where do I start?
<gord> Ndhb, great! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses should help get you started
<macer1> Hi. I have a question...hmm...unity 2d starts looking better than 3d version...it is faster, have more animations, and gives better user experience...can 3d version be rewriteen in qt like unity 2d?
<macer1> and unity 2d and 3d will be perfect
<macer1> *merge of unity2d and 3d
<macer1> like kde
<macer1> you can run it with or without hardware acceleration
<macer1> unity 3d looks now really bad compared to unity 2d :(
<macer1> http://ubuntuone.com/4hJIk1CeAboeNXsKv0T1ZP - wow! unity looks great! i want to use it! no...wait...it is unity 2d...so no compiz...
<davidcalle> macer1, you can still use compiz with unity-2d ;-)
<macer1> i know, but it is not the same...
<macer1> please, do something with it :(
<macer1> even scroolbar looks better in unity 2d...
<AlanBell> so use unity2d!
<macer1> no
<macer1> because i want ubuntu to look cool out of the box :)
<AlanBell> 2d is out of the box
<macer1> but there isnt compiz integration OOTB...
<macer1> user installs ubuntu. oh unity looks so cool!! installs propiertary drivers. reboot. and then "why is unity looking so bad now :( ?"
<AlanBell> hmm, I don't think it looks worse
<AlanBell> I think 2d is surprisingly good, and I often get confused about which one I am looking at
<davmor2> AlanBell: just look to the rubbish bin my friend
<c10ud> macer1, you could ask why duplicating the effort, but if they're doing it, i guess they have a reason for it so..
<macer1> of couse in oneric, unity 2d looks good in oneiric
<AlanBell> I don't think 2d was expected to be so good and I don't think 3d was expected to be so problematic
<macer1> i think main reason unity 3d to be gtk is gnome...
<macer1> but unity 2d is made for gnome, too...
<AlanBell> it is nux
<macer1> nux + gtk3?
<AlanBell> davmor2: so in 3d the trashcan is at the bottom of the launcher
<AlanBell> and it is in 2d
<AlanBell> and they both blur the background
<AlanBell> 2d is a fraction darker than 3d I think
<macer1> nux isnt cool
<nhaines> More than a fraction.
<macer1> *isn't
<macer1> hmm...it does not have any advantages over qt i think
<AlanBell> nux is an architectural problem certainly
<davmor2> AlanBell: No I said look to the bin, the icons are different :)
<macer1> devmor2: Icons are not diffrent in oneiric now
<davmor2> oh did that change
<AlanBell> look the same to me
<AlanBell> the main difference is that 3d breaks orca slightly more than 2d does
<macer1> there is a "natural scrooling" on unity 3d launcher. 0_o
<AlanBell> and 3d breaks onboard totally
<AlanBell> or isn't typeable by onboard or other onscreen keyboards
<AlanBell> if you drag an app icon from the lens and drop it on the desktop you get an error while copying dialog
<AlanBell> error getting information about /
<AlanBell> I really hate that you can have stuff in the launcher that isn't running
<macer1> the main think i have about ubuntu is that there is qt,gtk, and mono at the same time. it is not standarized, like in osx.
<macer1> *i hate
<macer1> and osx have multitouch everywhere. in other thinks ubuntu is better IMO
<macer1> *things
<macer1> so will ayatana fix ugly unity 3d?
<jbicha> macer1: qt, gtk, and mono run on OS X too
<macer1> but its not included by default
<macer1> banshee,tomboy,unity-2d,firefox...
<macer1> all that are not native apps
<macer1> thunderbird in oneiric
<macer1> c
<jbicha> what do you mean "native apps"?
<macer1> gtk integration
<macer1> look at elementary OS
<macer1> this is perfect OS with native apps, like OSX
<jbicha> they look native enough to me
<macer1> but it is not perfect. and I like when things are perfect :D
<jbicha> you could use a pure GNOME distribution if you like, or just remove the non-GNOME parts of Ubuntu
<macer1> i know that.
<jbicha> how does Banshee not fit in? it looks like GNOME to me
<macer1> yes...but mono is sooo slow
<jbicha> macer1: are you sure? there was a bug with the Ubuntu One plugin that was slowing Banshee down but that shouldn't be an issue now
<macer1> hmm
<macer1> if ubuntu want to be better than osx and windows it needs to be standarized
<macer1> jbicha, it is fixed but all mono is slow
<macer1> elementary OS is doing it right.
<macer1> they writed gtk email client, used gtk browser.
<macer1> and writed gtk music player
<macer1> ubuntu should do this like elementary OS...
<jbicha> mono is a just a programming language and it can use GTK just like Vala or C
<macer1> ok
<macer1> oh and libreoffice
<macer1> but why not make a better music player, better browser, better mail client, better adress book?
<AlanBell> go for it
<macer1> elementary OS know that firefox,banshee,tomboy,libreoffice does not integrate well. they deleted it or maked better version
<macer1> we can use elementary programs
<macer1> as default
<jbicha> macer1: there's no way we can use Marlin as default file browser for instance as it's not been released yet
<jbicha> also we have to use Nautilus to draw the desktop icons anyway so shipping 2 file browsers is a bit silly
<macer1> I think marlin can do that
<jbicha> so, first upstream needs to release the apps, then they can get packaged and then they can be evaluated to see if they should replace the current default
<jbicha> it's extremely unlikely that anything other than firefox or chromium will be the default web browser
<jbicha> but I'll be happy to try Elementary OS out, it looks like that won't happen for at least 7 more months
<macer1> sorry i needed to restart OS
<macer1> so marlin in ubuntu 12.04 will be cool :D
<macer1> and beatbox
<macer1> and postler...
<jbicha> macer1: those don't have a chance at being default in a Ubuntu version if there isn't a usable release by the time of the preceding UDS
<AlanBell> are they in Ubuntu at all at the moment?
<AlanBell> or Debian even?
<Pendulum> \\\\/...............
<AlanBell> o/ scotia
<Pendulum> AlanBell: yeah, she just always has to get her paw into everything, even Unity ;-)
<hicham> anyone trying to upstream ubuntu menu proxy patch to gtk ?
#ayatana 2011-09-17
<AlanBell> spd-say "ubuntu oh-nigh-ric osselot" <- does that sound right?
<AlanBell> spd-say "ubuntu oneiric ocelot" <- compared to that
<javierrivera> hi, someone can help me with python and indicators?
<javierrivera> I have made a simple program that shows an indicator and works 11.10, but in 10.04 there is no icon. There is a space on the indicator bar, and the menu is there if you hoover with the mouse, but it doesn't show the icon
<andyrock> DBO, where you read that xdnd data can change during the drop? can you pass me the link please?
#ayatana 2011-09-18
<macer1> Hi
<macer1> Can someone look at my bug report ;)?
<macer1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/853267
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 853267 in unity "Unity 2D looks better than 3D version because it is using Qt" [Undecided,New]
<macer1> ubot5, thanks ubottu
<AlanBell> macer1: that kind of thing will be discussed at UDS, I should think the bug will be closed as opinion
<macer1> hmm...
<macer1> what a pity I can't be on UDS :(
<macer1> I really hope Ubuntu will get out of GTK.
<macer1> Unity 2D dash looks better. It is a fact :D
