#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-09
<Burgundavia> salut mdke 
<mdke> hi Burgundavia 
<mdke> hows things?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> finally getting my speech done
<mdke> speech?
<Burgundavia> giving a talk about Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> http://lfnw.blug.org/fest2005/schedule.dxp
<mdke> awesome
<mdke> cool agenda
<Burgundavia> lol http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Kenjiromu/paid.jpg
<mdke> what talks are you gonna attend? apart from your own...
<Burgundavia> no idea
<jsgotangco> salut
<mdke> looks like loads of cool ones
<mdke> hi jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> hey our UDU-going friend
* Burgundavia grumbles
* jsgotangco embraces the UDU guys
<mdke> seen this? http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120520,00.asp
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> distrowatch keeps are pretty good handle on the reviews
<mdke> oh right
<mdke> cool
<jsgotangco> whats cookin
* mdke puts jsgotangco on a slow fire
* jsgotangco completely ignores wiki/rosetta bofs
<Burgundavia> nah, he is already in aussie, he is already there
<jsgotangco> i might move here
<jsgotangco> the weather is really nice
<mdke> jsgotangco, ignore those meetings and I will turn up the fire
* jsgotangco goes to the HitchickersGuideToTheGalaxyUDUBatch BOF
<mdke> i wouldn't put it past you crazy guys to have one of those
<mdke> its out today isn't it?
<jsgotangco> there was a request for that over here
<Burgundavia> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8276
<Burgundavia> cool, it mentions that we are presenting
<jsgotangco> mdke, there's only a Rosetta WorkFlow bof atm
<mdke> i haven't seen the timetable for today
<mdke> jsgotangco, you just have fun!
<mdke> that's what its all about
<Burgundavia> it thurs or wed there?
<mdke> thur
<mdke> did you guys see that henrik transferred the static documentation from the website to the wiki?
<jsgotangco> no i didnt notice that
<jsgotangco> sure im having fun here but the bay is so inviting outside...*sniff*
* Burgundavia whips jsgotangco 
* Burgundavia reminds him that he is there for 5 other people
<mdke> Burgundavia, aww leave him alone
<mdke> he is there for himself and to have a good time
<Burgundavia> nope
<jsgotangco> naw that's too selfish
<mdke> well i certainly didn't pay any of his fare
<jsgotangco> im the defender of the dokteam kause
<mdke> jsgotangco, :)
<jsgotangco> note the k
<mdke> yes
<mdke> it was a forced smile
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> people say my gnome was borked because it had Ks all over
<Burgundavia> evil evil KDE users
<Burgundavia> should be shot
<mdke> i have to say, there is a certain amount of incompatibility between kde and gnome on Ubuntu when you run both
<jsgotangco> shot Riddel and amu
<mdke> i'm tempted to file it as a bug
<jsgotangco> i just run ubuntu gnome now
<jsgotangco> my kubuntu is so borked
* mdke pats jsgotangco on the back
<jsgotangco> this thing is soooo plain
<jsgotangco> we had this artwork bof
<jsgotangco> andy was heading it
* Burgundavia avoids the incompatibility by only running the onetruedesktop, ms windows
<jsgotangco> he hated the 1pixel black borders on icons
<mdke> jsgotangco, you musn't name drop and assume that i know who you're talking about
<jsgotangco> i dont know his nick!
<mdke> surname?
<jsgotangco> well anyway he did some nice human icons on draft but was totally way out of the gnome spec
<jsgotangco> fitzimmons
<jsgotangco> it was pretty shiny though, like kde icons
<jsgotangco> but not so cartoonish
* Burgundavia curses at OO.o impress
<Burgundavia> I like the clean plain desktop
<jsgotangco> he's trying to get Human as default on breezy
<jsgotangco> becase the current human icons are plain hideous
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, im on default as well
<mdke> meh
<mdke> i can't stand brown on my desktop
<mdke> i like blue
<jsgotangco> that reminds me
<jsgotangco> let me get ubuntu-cal
<jsgotangco> awww but that would make me remove my rushcutters bay wallpaper
<Burgundavia> shiny --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=23446&file1=23446-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=Ubuntu+World
<Burgundavia> already  --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=23376&file1=23376-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=Ubuntu+5.10+%28Breezy+Badger%29+CD+cover
<jsgotangco> who did that?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<mdke> the first one is ok
<Burgundavia> is on gnome-look
<jsgotangco> its got australia
<Burgundavia> my current --> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/files/19845-lanscape.jpg
<jsgotangco> oohhhh that's nice
<Burgundavia> there are a series by him
<Burgundavia> I use tobacco-sky for a gdm login screen
<mdke> what gnome theme?
<Kinnison> burgey!
<Burgundavia> salut Kinnison, my favourite camera target
<Burgundavia> I am missing you
<Burgundavia> mdke, http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=18178
<jsgotangco> i like tobacco sky
<mdke> what gnome theme?
<jsgotangco> bbl BOF
<mdke> thats a sexy gdm
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> there are some thoughts that something like that should be default
<Burgundavia> it is also very calm
<mdke> geez I need that gdm
<Burgundavia> and has no text on it
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: It's a pity because there's a rather cute one here
<Burgundavia> Kinnison, dammit!
<Burgundavia> who?
* Kinnison laughs
<jsgotangco> haha
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: We went to a gay bar last night too, it was so much fun.
<jsgotangco> Kinnison, @ Kings Cross?
* Burgundavia grumbles. He does that a lot recently
<jsgotangco> its only thursday you can still catch a plane and arrive on saturday
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I have to give a talk on Sat
<Burgundavia> and I have no money
<Burgundavia> aussie costs a lot to get there
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: aye
<Kinnison> jsgotangco: darlinghurst
<Burgundavia> I spent my money on a trip to Spain
<jsgotangco> i only like $10A in my pocket
<Burgundavia> in retrospect, I should have applied
<Burgundavia> I didn't realize how under-represented the docteam was going to be
<jsgotangco> aye
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<Burgundavia> cest la vie, prochaine fois
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> mary drops by now and then anyway
* jsgotangco feels guilty now and goes in a corner
<mdke> jsgotangco, it doesn't matter!
<Burgundavia> OO.o Impress has this annoying bug of trying to save every 15 minutes when the doc hasn't been saved at all
<Burgundavia> so rather tahn just silently saving a temp somehwer, it pops up and grabs attention
<Burgundavia> even across virtual desktops
<jsgotangco> heh  not just impress
<Burgundavia> I hate OO
<Burgundavia> I just wish there was a presentation app for Gnome Office
<cc2> Burgundavia: you can turn that feature off
<Burgundavia> cc, it is not off by default
<Burgundavia> that is a bug
<Burgundavia> and I don't use OO.o enough to dig through and find it
<jsgotangco> no thats an undocumented feature
<cc> Burgundavia: actually, with upstream it is. its _not_ a bug. its a feature. Word has it turned on
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<cc> as does any sane office suite
<Burgundavia> cc, it looks like a bug and smells like a bug
<jsgotangco> aye
<Burgundavia> cc, it grabs my attention and beeps my computer speaker
<Burgundavia> that is a BUG
<cc> Burgundavia: you can turn that off, if you'd like. i.e. even the prompting bit. it can just "autosave" (and that might annoy some too)
<cc> there's no winning with users. everyone wants it set differently
<mdke> autosave = good. Autosave when doc is not already saved = bad
<cc> so, it just gets set "one way"
<Burgundavia> cc, still on by default though
<Burgundavia> autosave is a good idea, but this implementation is a bad idea
<Burgundavia> understand that key difference
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> autosave is good
<jsgotangco> hypatia, hi
<Burgundavia> generally OO.o is a pile of Usability bugs jammed into a terrible interface
<Burgundavia> with an annoying help interface to boot
* cc is an upstream OOo devel...
<hypatia> morning
<jsgotangco> gyaahh don't use it
* Burgundavia is ranting
<mdke> hi hypatia 
<jsgotangco> go back to the holy grail of office suite
<Burgundavia> cc, even if I knew you were an upstream OO devel, I still would have said that
* mdke nods
<cc> Burgundavia: i know; it blows, but i'm telling you the difference i guess
<cc> the fact that by default its disabled upstream
<cc> and we had a bug filed saying enable it
<Burgundavia> cc, I understand where you are coming from
<Burgundavia> you have a huge legacy codebase
<Burgundavia> and a legacy of trying to emulate MS Office
<Burgundavia> which to me is a very bad thing, but that is a topic for another discussion
<cc> Burgundavia: and its the best, at the moment (and probably will be for a long time)
<Burgundavia> I agree with you there
<jsgotangco> does the same thing happen in OOo v2?
<Burgundavia> cc, you work for sun?
<cc> Burgundavia: no
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> cc, is there movement of getting OO gettextized?
<cc> Burgundavia: nope; proposed spec, people see codebase, they run
<cc> far, far away
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I have never looked at OO code, but I understand it is a little hairy to dive into
<Burgundavia> ok, I have to go
<mdke> bye matey
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<jsgotangco> hypatia, you there?
<hypatia> yeah, mostly
<jsgotangco> ok theres a PackagingSystemDocumentation BOF and I am in second fyi
<jsgotangco> its low priority anyway
<hypatia> Right.
<hypatia> When I said "yeah" I meant I'm on IRC.
<hypatia> I'm not physically there until Saturday.
<jsgotangco> yeah im aware of that tee hee
<Burgundavia> salut
<froud> African Greetings
<d3vic3> O.o 
<d3vic3> Ah, you south african 
<froud> d3vic3: yep
<d3vic3> the right word would be "molweni" (same language as "ubuntu") 
<d3vic3> :-D
<froud> and by your domain you are in au
<froud> welcome to Ubuntu-doc
<froud> come to join us write docs
<d3vic3> I'm in au but I'm from za 
<d3vic3> I'm attending UDU
<froud> sanbonani
<froud> Howzit going fo ryou at UDU?
<froud> vic in the nick mean you from Victoria
<froud> or is it part of your name
<d3vic3> lol 
<d3vic3> device <-- that my nick 
<froud> Ah ha
<froud> sorry 07:30 is not the best time for this type of thinking
<d3vic3> udu is going well, I think, everyone is busy with specs 
<froud> So d3vic3 you going to some bofs
<d3vic3> was in one just now 
<froud> which one?
<froud> Hmmm this is gonna be a slow chat :-)
<d3vic3> JavaRoadMap 
<froud> morn Burgundavia cc hypatia jiyuu0 Kinnison mdke 
<cc> yes, froud ?
<froud> Ooooh another java lover, nice
<froud> cc: just saying morning
<d3vic3> lo 
<cc> oh, hi
<froud> yep we need more acceptance of java
* froud loves java
<hypatia> morning froud.
<hypatia> good afternoon, UDU.
<froud> so d3vic3 I guess you are on ubuntu-doc because you are gonna help us write documents, right ;-)
<froud> hypatia: hows UDU for you today
<froud> jsgotangco: hello dude
<froud> jsgotangco: long time no speak
<jsgotangco> hey froud how have you been
<jsgotangco> yes
<d3vic3> I might, dunno how much work Im actually in for after UDU 
<froud> How was the documentation packaging bof
<froud> d3vic3: why is that?
<jsgotangco> well we had to move it on saturday along with Intro Developer Docs
<jsgotangco> its so specific
<froud> jsgotangco: yeah intro developer docs need to come to docteam
<d3vic3> that on for saturday, iirc 
<jsgotangco> froud, yeah we figured that out...well im doing Dial Up BOF later
<jsgotangco> the new stuff in svn will come in handy
<froud> yep, I saw
<froud> yes, nice doc
<froud> needs a bit of work but it is a greatstart
<jsgotangco> it relates well to laptop hardware support as well
<froud> yep
<jsgotangco> so far good coverage
<froud> jsgotangco: we have good news
<jsgotangco> oh yeah?
<froud> jsgotangco: jiyuu0 is coming around to work insvn
<jsgotangco> whoa
<jsgotangco> that is good news
<froud> and jjesse is gonna get a commiter account
<d3vic3> sweet
<froud> hopefully jeff will to
<jsgotangco> did you ask james for the commit access?
<froud> d3vic3: now we need three patches of significance from you and we can get you an account too
<froud> jsgotangco: not yet, it was late
<froud> but  they will mail enrico
<froud> jsgotangco: is enrico down there?
<froud> I keep missinghime
<d3vic3> froud, I see 
<jsgotangco> no i would have seen him if he was here i guess
<froud> jsgotangco: yeah, did you catch hypatia 
<jsgotangco> yeah i did she's nice
<hypatia> last I heard of enrico was jdub telling me he has a new job and is busy.
<jsgotangco> such a tall lady too
<froud> yeah he is work at ARPA
<froud> jsgotangco: aw that's just because you are so short
<froud> :-)
<hypatia> jsgotangco: I was really tired last night. Hope to be more alive on Saturday.
<hypatia> froud: To me, the world is short.
<jsgotangco> doh..what do you expect...im asian 6" asians are a rarity
<froud> hmmm, froud likes em tall :-)
<froud> jsgotangco: lol
* Kinnison wonders if jsgotangco means 6" or 6'
<jsgotangco> 6' sorry
<hypatia> Kinnison: either works.
<froud> hey the gay Englishman speaks
* Kinnison hides
<jsgotangco> haha
<Kinnison> froud: Nice to know that my gender preference is my most memorable trait
<Kinnison> :-)
<froud> Kinnison: you still in denial about doing docs
<froud> Kinnison: we love you
<hypatia> Kinnison: to me your most memorable trait is your lj username.
<hypatia> There's something about the fish...
<froud> Kinnison: you are part of the funiture
* froud hugs Kinnison 
* Kinnison grins
<froud> fish and chips
<froud> now where is the vinogar
<froud> jsgotangco: if you see mako tell him he rocks
<froud> jsgotangco: he will understand
<jsgotangco> he's kinda stoned at the moment at the fridge
* Kinnison laughs
<Kinnison> hypatia: But I don't post on LJ these days
<froud> that sounds like the right person
<hypatia> Kinnison: I see you comment in daniels's journal every so often.
<hypatia> Kinnison: so I still get fish exposure.
<Kinnison> Heh
* froud wonders what all the fish is about
<Kinnison> I run an ISP called 'Pepperfish'
<froud> Ah ha
<Kinnison> (why Pepperfish? Well, we're not entirely sure)
<froud> is it any good
<hypatia> I mean "the other daniels" of course.
<froud> I may be looking for some hosting
<froud> Kinnison: I need a place to test an Apache Tomcat, Cocoon thing called Lenya
<Kinnison> Well, our customers seem happy :-)
<Kinnison> Of course, we don't run Apache
<Kinnison> which would kinda scupper that plan
<froud> yep but what about Tomcat
<Kinnison> Nup, no Java
<Kinnison> Refuse to run Java
<Kinnison> Corporate decision
<froud> why it is very secure
<Kinnison> Java == huge bloaty pile of shite
<Kinnison> resource hungry, doesn't play nicely with other people
<Kinnison> generally a bad idea on a shared hosting platform
* froud throws balls of sh1t at Kinnison 
<froud> Kinnison: I am talking dedicated hosting
<Kinnison> Oh, Pepperfish is a shared hosting platform
* Burgundavia wonders why he has a folder called 'windows installers' on his hdd
<froud> no way Ubuntu doc lenya could be on a shared system
<Kinnison> We're not a colo service
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: because you suck
* Burgundavia smacks Kinnison with a trout
<froud> Burgundavia: you are crossingover, I think john edwards has been a bit to active
<Kinnison> Burgundavia: mmmm fishy
<Burgundavia> I think I remember now
<Burgundavia> my brother wanted me to burn some stuff for his XP migration
<Burgundavia> unfortunately that migration was not to Ubuntu
<froud> anyone taken a look at longhorn
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> it sucks balls
<froud> not sure that databse file sys is a good idea
<Burgundavia> scroll bars on menus
<Burgundavia> I don't think I really need to say more
<froud> and the new file format ala PDF
<froud> when will microsoft stop
<Burgundavia> WinFS is dead
<Burgundavia> not going to be in Longhorn
<jsgotangco> Metro?
<froud> Oh good
<Burgundavia> actually, WinFS used to be an idea called Cairo, which was to be part of 95
<Burgundavia> Metro is shite and is hopefully dead in the water
<froud> Hows the help sys
<froud> bubles everywhere
<froud> a bit to soapy
<Burgundavia> haven't played with it that much
<Burgundavia> too many other things to do
<froud> yeah like built linux :-)
<Burgundavia> and write my talk, etc.
<froud> Oh yeah hows that going
<jsgotangco> froud, you seem to be free lately
<froud> jsgotangco:  no just woke up
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<Burgundavia> was good, until I discovered today that my talk is supposed to be 1 1/2 hours, not 1/2 hour
<jsgotangco> i keep remembering the time zones
<froud> got lots of dealines
<jsgotangco> i mean i keep forgetting
<froud> well talk for 1/2 and twiddle thumbs for 1
* jsgotangco too much redbull
* Burgundavia is tired, going to bed
<froud> jsgotangco: got any wings
<froud> Burgundavia: see ya
<Burgundavia> night/day all
<froud> sweet dreams
<froud> Cant believe he is actuallygoing to sleep, he never does that
<froud> Hey dudes I have braille working
<froud> but only US braille dialect
<froud> jeeze can you believe there are different dialects of braille
<froud> UK braille is not the same as US
<froud> dunno how FR and DE braille looks
<froud> so dunno how I am gonna get the loco docs transcribed to braille
<froud> think if we put up US braille docs somebody will come along and find a solution for the braille dialects?
* froud did not know that so many visually impaired people use computers. It's cool.
<froud> Well meetings this morning. Love you all, c ya
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> that's something to consider
<jsgotangco> im going to the the other bof
<jsgotangco> hmmmm
<jiyuu0> finished the ubuntuguide.org add-on cd
<jiyuu0> now waiting for people who can host it
<jsgotangco> wow its now a CD
<jiyuu0> yub :)
<mdke> hi dudes
<jiyuu0> my prob here is i can't host at my server
<jiyuu0> the bandwidth can't take it
<jiyuu0> ubuntu-5.04-add-on-2005-04-28.iso (332.1MB)
<jiyuu0> ubuntu-5.04-add-on-2005-04-28.iso.md5 (68 bytes)
<mdke> what's on the cd?
<jiyuu0> everything that is mentioned in ubuntuguide.org
<jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=30147
<jiyuu0> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/temp
<mdke> am checking it out
<jiyuu0> i need to get it uploaded to a server
<jiyuu0> over a 512k broadband
<jiyuu0> don't know how long going to take
<mdke> *grins*
<mdke> about 3 hours i guess
<jiyuu0> hope so
<jsgotangco> its that big?
<jsgotangco> WOW
<mdke> juoh actually for 330 megs, probably about an hour and a half
<jiyuu0> today the're's openoffice update
<jiyuu0> that's why big
<jsgotangco> whoa i didnt know that
<jsgotangco> jiyuu0, do you reckon the guide will be in svn soon?
<jiyuu0> 8th next month i'll start workin on it
<jsgotangco> rad
<jiyuu0> i need to settle a few more things with ubuntuguide.org
<jsgotangco> there's no rush
<jsgotangco> i gotta start doing more stuff soon
<jiyuu0> cool :)
<jsgotangco> ah no updates
<jsgotangco> duh..im doing 2 more bofs tommorow
<mdke> how is it going jsgotangco ?
<jsgotangco> oh we're just here in the room some guys are playing mao outside
<jsgotangco> its almost 11pm here
<mdke> mao?
<jsgotangco> we're having a key signing tommorow
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<mdke> what is mao?
<jsgotangco> ask Kinnison, he's the Mao master
<jsgotangco> http://www.pagat.com/eights/mao.html
<jsgotangco> but dont bother
<mdke> oh its cards
<mdke> i thought it was some weird sport
<jsgotangco> i wanna watch rugby
<mdke> *cough* cricket *cough*
<jsgotangco> bahhh rugby man...like wwe and boxing combined
<mdke> rugby is a decent sport
<mdke> but its not an art like cricket :)
<jsgotangco> i dont understand cricket either
<jsgotangco> are you at school?
<mdke> no, home
<mdke> just had a class in the morning
<jsgotangco> mdke, you need me to do some stuff relating to rosetta? im not that loaded tommorow
<mdke> i don't know what is on
<mdke> you didn't see anything about getting the docs in language-packs did you?
<jsgotangco> i didnt
<jsgotangco> well there's no schedule yet anyway
<mdke> np
<jsgotangco> i gotta ask carlos some stuff anyway tommorow
<jsgotangco> mdke, check this out
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> so is mao better than poker? surely you should be playing poker
<jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuNations
<jsgotangco> of course mao is better but im no expert im got creamed at mao
<jsgotangco> check out that link hehe
<mdke> very interesting
<jsgotangco> from Nauru or the Vatican
<jsgotangco> you reckon we can get the pope to represent
<jsgotangco> haha
<mdke> its essentially like a ubuntu summer camp?
<jsgotangco> i dunno it would probably be like woodstock if mako's going to head it
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mdke> i'm just gonna go watch a bit of TV
<jsgotangco> ok im probably going up later
<mdke> i'll probably be here when you get up
<jsgotangco> great let's check out the schedule by then so i can plan out the day
<jsgotangco> i expect mary to be around on saturday though
<mdke> what time do you get up?
<jsgotangco> hmmm we start here around 9am sydney time
<mdke> that is utf +8?
<jsgotangco> let me check that on UTC
<mdke> *laughs*
<mdke> utf
<mdke> my god
* mdke slaps himself
<jsgotangco> wat
<jsgotangco> i didnt get that
<mdke> Be BaCk LaTeR
<jiyuu0> any good bittorent tracker server?
<jiyuu0> nver done it b4
<jiyuu0> i've burst my bandwidth quota
<Burgundavia> oops
<jiyuu0> the whole site went down
<jiyuu0> now i've to disable all of it first
<mkde> does anyone know if the releasenotes doc is on the website?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-10
<mdke> mornin
<Burgundavia> salut
<Burgundavia> does mkde == mdke ?
<mdke> yes
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> why don't you use mdke_ and mdkev ?
<mdke> froud used it once during our kde skirmishing so I adoped it
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> "kde skirmishing?"
<Burgundavia> oh, inkscape is fun
<mdke> we were bitching about kubuntu
<mdke> in a tongue in cheek way
<Burgundavia> http://img104.echo.cx/img104/2579/madlittleship7jt.png
<Burgundavia> inkscape is fun
<mdke> i can't believe it, gnome 2.10 has been out for ages now, and gentoo upgrades to 2.8.3 now
<mdke> grumble
<Burgundavia> gentoo is for ricers
<Burgundavia> even worse that kde
<mdke> oooh that hurt
<mdke> what is a ricer?
<Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricer
<mdke> *grins*
<mdke> See also
<mdke>     * Boy racer
<mdke>     * Crotch rocket
<mdke> thats not true
<Burgundavia> term that came about because of the number of Korean/Japanese/HK kids with lots of money and little sense
<mdke> i love gentoo
<Burgundavia> so they put it cars
<Burgundavia> and soup them up
<mdke> yeah we have em here in the uk too
<Burgundavia> over-optimize
<mdke> except its not only people with little money
<mdke> s/little/lots of
<Burgundavia> try and get the last few hp out of there cars
<mdke> *grins*
<mdke> that's not why i run gentoo
<mdke> its for the girls
<Burgundavia> do crazy things like replace the rubber with silicon to make it faster. It also makes the ride much much worse
<mdke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townie
<mdke> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chav
<mdke> this modern lingo is so hard to keep up with
<mdke> i went away for a year, and came home to find the term "chav" taking over
<mdke> the uk is so class ridden ;)
<mdke> Burgundavia, anyway there is nothing wrong with the ride on gentoo :D
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> ignore the bumps, that is becuase we are going so fast
<mdke> i don't get bumps
<mdke> well, i get some, but i have had some on every linux flavour i've used
<Burgundavia> did I mention that I think inkscape is great?
<mdke> you might have
<mdke> but you should make it clearer
<Burgundavia> you saw my 1/2 hours work? image shack
<Burgundavia> http://img104.echo.cx/img104/2579/madlittleship7jt.png
<mdke> Burgundavia, yes its nice
<mdke> lemme find out what inkscape is
<Burgundavia> inkscape great little vector art drawing program
<mdke> looks pretty sweet, although i don't know the first thing about graphics
<Burgundavia> nor did I 
<Burgundavia> til I started playing
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> how is down under?
<mdke> y0
<jsgotangco> we're just starting
<jsgotangco> mostly the day is about drafting
<jsgotangco> but we're having a barbecue later
<Burgundavia> bastard
* Burgundavia grumbles
<jsgotangco> it is after all the friday and tommorow is the last day
<mdke> night y'all
<jsgotangco> nite
<Kinnison> Morning
<Burgundavia> morning Kinnison 
<jsgotangco> gyaahh i didnt ssavvee
<froud> African Greetings
<jsgotangco> hi froud
<froud> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> brb
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i got lead on MentoringCommunity
<jsgotangco> duhhh
<jsgotangco> sup
<jsgotangco> boo
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, awake?
<jsgotangco> froud, hey
<jsgotangco> enrico, hi
<enrico> Hi jsgotangco !
<jsgotangco> enrico, you're not here :(
<enrico> I'm here everytime I'm online
<enrico> IRC is quite a time killer when one has a full-time job
<jsgotangco> true
<jsgotangco> no i mean too bad you're not in UDU
<enrico> jsgotangco: yes, I know.  I just can't keep up with it
<enrico> however, if you have something you need from me, please write me
<jsgotangco> of course
<enrico> are there cool things happening?
<jsgotangco> we just had a 70 man keysigning 2 hours ago
<jsgotangco> and some barbecue
<enrico> wow!
<jsgotangco> generally everyone is now at the bar at the moment some playing mao, some drinking, some like me surfing while having a lager
<enrico> aussies are masters of barbecues!!
<jsgotangco> aye mate it was great
<enrico> have some wine!
<enrico> they have really good wine down there
<jsgotangco> i already had 4 lagers
<jsgotangco> maybe tommorow
<enrico> :)
<jsgotangco> tommorow is the last day anyway
<mvirkkil> Converted some more wiki pages to moin. Only 28 pages in non-MoinMoin format.
<mvirkkil> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/pagesByType
* froud nudges enrico as if to say, boy I wish we could stop working and start playing
<enrico> froud: that's a good wish!
<froud> :-) preparation for LinuxWorld JHB, got me working hard
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> finally getting my talk nailed down
<mdke> love it when people rename the FrontPage
<froud> the wonderful work of wiki ..... grrr
<mdke> hi froud :)
<Burgundavia> salut jeffsch 
<jeffsch> hey man
<jeffsch> how did it go at lfnw?
<Burgundavia> very very well
<Burgundavia> about 50 people, which was over cap. for the room
<Burgundavia> I talked for 1/2 hour and then I answered questions for another 45 minutes
<Burgundavia> I must have done something right, as they all clapped at the end
<jeffsch> great!
<jeffsch> did you get any converts?
<Burgundavia> I didn't have any cds
<Burgundavia> I wasn't responsible for ordering them and the guy who was forgot
<jeffsch> I installed kubuntu on the weekend
* Burgundavia crosses himself as evil is mentioned
<jeffsch> I have gone back to gnome
<jeffsch> kde interface is too busy and cluttered for my tastes
<Burgundavia> indeed
<jeffsch> but I kept kdm... kde apps work better with kdm than gdm
<Burgundavia> we really need one login manager, rather than 3
<jeffsch> some of the kde apps are pretty good too
<Burgundavia> I like kolf
<jeffsch> the help is better 
<Burgundavia> yelp generally sucks, no matter the system
<Burgundavia> s/yelp/help
<Burgundavia> can I get some eyeballs on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<Burgundavia> ** sudo
<[uhelp] > Found 1 matches. Sorted: root. (0.01s)
<Burgundavia> ?? sudo
<[uhelp] > sudo[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> ?? root
<[uhelp] > root: Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<Burgundavia> !learn add sudo Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<Burgundavia> ?? sudo
<[uhelp] > sudo: Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<Burgundavia> there we go
<lexxan> only ppl who i put on the bot can add
<Burgundavia> this is a very useful bot
<Burgundavia> can I get a full listing of what it does?
<lexxan> saves a lot of typing and time heh
<lexxan> ummm
<Burgundavia> yes
<lexxan> sec
<lexxan> there's !learn ins !learn put and !learn rep
<lexxan> i dunno what they do
<lexxan> insert i guess
<lexxan> !learn ins sudo t
<Burgundavia> where did you get the bot from?
<lexxan> just an eggdrop running !learn tcl from www.egghelp.org
<lexxan> # !learn add word defenition
<lexxan> # !learn del word <number|all>
<lexxan> # and also !learn <ins|put|rep> <number> <defenition>
<lexxan> !learn ins sudo 2 ffff
<lexxan> ?? sudo
<[uhelp] > sudo: Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<lexxan> ?? sudo 2
<[uhelp] > Hey lexxan, i've already told #ubuntu-doc about "sudo"... no need to repeat (i think)
<lexxan> hm
<lexxan> !learn del sudo 2
<lexxan> ?? sudo
<[uhelp] > sudo: Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<lexxan> i dunno.
<Burgundavia> ok, I will take a look
<Burgundavia> thanks for doing this
<Burgundavia> lexxan, the bot is running on your server?
<lexxan> ya
<lexxan> just on my desktop box
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> cool
<lexxan> but i'm gonna try to find a 24/7 server
<lexxan> since my sister reboots into windows sometimes
<Burgundavia> maybe we can talk canonical to putting on their servers
<lexxan> brb
<Burgundavia> I will ask about that
<lexxan> who is that
<Burgundavia> canonical is the company behind ubuntu
<lexxan> ah okay
<lexxan> that would be sweet
<Burgundavia> this might take a bit, but we can probably swing it
<lexxan> well whatever.. we can keep it on mine til it's more popular or something
<mako> greetings
<Burgundavia> salut
<Burgundavia> lexxan here is the one running the bot on #ubuntu
<Burgundavia> he has very kindly given me access ot the bot
<Burgundavia> but it would be nice if this could be moved to a canonical server
<Burgundavia> currently, he is running eggbot http://www.egghelp.org/
<thegreedyturtle> hey lexxan, is there a contents or ?? help
<thegreedyturtle> ?? help
<[uhelp] > help[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> No I don't think so
<lexxan> pretty much it's just !learn add <keyword> info
<lexxan> !learn del keyword
<lexxan> ** <string>
<[uhelp] > Found 1 matches. Sorted: apt. (0.002s)
<lexxan> to search
<mako> cool
<lexxan> and i can add ppl who want to add / remove stuff
<Burgundavia> the advantage to bringing it onto canonical servers is that the doc team can vet the information given out
<lexxan> yea
<lexxan> you could just manually edit the txt file
<lexxan> in a shell
<mako> i've asked the admins
<Burgundavia> thanks mako
#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-11
<lexxan> Should the name still be [uhelp] 
<mako> lexxan: why not?
<lexxan> I dunno
<Burgundavia> it already has mindshare
<ubuntu-helper> could make it that heh
<Burgundavia> !learn add shipit You will be contacted before any Ubuntu CD's ordered through Shipit are shipped
<Burgundavia> ?? shipit
<[uhelp] > shipit: You will be contacted before any Ubuntu CD's ordered through Shipit are shipped
<Burgundavia> thoughts?
<mdke> +1
<mdke> cool bot
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> make mylife easy
<Burgundavia> ?? shipit > mdke
<mdke> v nice
<Burgundavia> mdke, did you get that?
<Burgundavia> ?? shipit > Burgundavia
<mdke> will you be added links to websites?
<Burgundavia> ?? sudo
<[uhelp] > sudo: Root is disabled in Ubuntu by default. Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
<froud> +1
<Burgundavia> ?? ati
<[uhelp] > ati: To setup your xorg binary ati driver see - http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
<mdke> good
<Burgundavia> ?? nvidia
<mdke> ?? mp3
<[uhelp] > nvidia: to setup your xorg binary nvidia driver see - http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto -OR- http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#installnvidiadriver -ALSO- http://home.comcast.net/~andrex/Debian-nVidia/installation.html
<[uhelp] > mp3[x] : No defenition found for word.
* mdke peers at Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> not mine
<Burgundavia> but I can edit it
<Burgundavia> ?? dvd
<[uhelp] > dvd[x] : No defenition found for word.
<froud> Burgundavia: we need openmethods for management of the bot
<Burgundavia> we are looking at moving onto a canonical server right now
<Burgundavia> currently is hosted by lexxan 
<froud> perhaps a file in the repso that we can update
<froud> centrally
<froud> and programatically update the bot from there
<Burgundavia> once it is one a canonical server, we extend to it to our liking
<froud> good stuff
<froud> my experience with these bots is good, but after awhile one forgets what they know
<Burgundavia> !dvd To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> ?? dvd
<[uhelp] > dvd[x] : No defenition found for word.
<Burgundavia> !learn dvd To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<froud> having it in a centarl place helps
<Burgundavia> !learn add dvd To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> ?? dvd
<[uhelp] > dvd: To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> !learn add mp3 To setup mp3 playback, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<Burgundavia> ?? mp3
<[uhelp] > mp3: To setup mp3 playback, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<mdke> Burgundavia, :)
<Burgundavia> this is cool beans
* mdke nods
<mdke> need to get it op status methinks
<Burgundavia> op status? why?
<mdke> so that it appears at the top of the channel list
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> it already does though
<froud> does it really matter where in the channel it sits
<Burgundavia> not really
<froud> just so long as it responds
<Burgundavia> but the channel should mention it
<mdke> i was thinking in terms of visibility
<froud> to key people
<mdke> its ok if it responds, but people need to know its there
<froud> in my experience only key people will use it
<froud> while giving support
<mdke> standard approach is to put it at the top of the channel list
<Burgundavia> anybody can query it, but only some can edit it
<froud> yes, but the people who need to query it wont know its syntax
<froud> in my experience only people doing support will use it
<Burgundavia> we need to extend it for languages
<Burgundavia> it should say, in the tongue, for talk in blah, see #ubuntu-blah
<Burgundavia> ?? ntfs
<[uhelp] > ntfs[x] : No defenition found for word.
<Burgundavia> ?? windows
<[uhelp] > windows[x] : No defenition found for word.
<Burgundavia> ?? mount
<[uhelp] > mount[x] : No defenition found for word.
<Burgundavia> ?? ubuntu
<[uhelp] > ubuntu[x] : No defenition found for word.
<mdke> Burgundavia, very good idea re: languages
<mdke> Burgundavia, i get the feeling you are going to be happily busy over the next few hours...
<mdke> :)
<Burgundavia> we need to extend the wiki as well
<lexxan> lol
<lexxan> If you know tcl.. you can go nuts
<lexxan> just get it a +v
<lexxan> it'll be at the top of the list then
<lexxan> ?? mountntfs
<[uhelp] > mountntfs: To learn about mounting windows partitions (ntfs, fat) see - http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#windows
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<Burgundavia> we need something good in the wiki about that
<lexxan> I'm gonna see if I can find a better script
<Burgundavia> for the bot?
<Burgundavia> something in python would be nice
<mdke> supybot is in python
<mdke> anyway, i'm off to bed
<mdke> night
<lexxan> night
<Burgundavia> night
<Burgundavia> ??
<[uhelp] > ??[x] : Usage: ?? <word> [> nick] 
<lexxan> i-bot, status
<i-bot> Since Mon May  2 17:07:37 2005, there have been 0 modifications and 0 questions.  I have been awake for 1 minute, 11 seconds this session, and currently reference 18 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
<Burgundavia> what is i-bot?
<lexxan> another type of bot
<lexxan> i-bot, root is GGG
<i-bot> OK, lexxan.
<lexxan> what is root?
<i-bot> somebody said root was GGG
<lexxan> i-bot, tell lexxan about root
<i-bot> root is, like, GGG
<lexxan> heh
<lexxan> don't like it
<Burgundavia> supybot is even packaged
<lexxan> Gotta find a script for it
<lexxan> @config supybot.directories.plugins
<lexxan> @config supybot.directories.plugins
<uhelp> lexxan: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/supybot, /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/supybot/plugins
<Burgundavia> lexxan, what is your supybot.networks.freenode.servers:  line say?
<lexxan> irc.freenode.net:6667
<lexxan> I don't like this bot at all
<lexxan> heh.
<lexxan> @load Infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
<lexxan> whoami
<lexxan> uhelp, whoami
<uhelp> lexxan: I don't recognize you.
<Burgundavia> eggdrop is also packaged
<lexxan> @load Infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: Error: Infobot is deprecated.  Use --deprecated to force it to load.
<lexxan> @load Infobot --deprecated
<uhelp> lexxan: (load [--deprecated]  <plugin>) -- Loads the plugin <plugin> from any of the directories in conf.supybot.directories.plugins; usually this includes the main installed directory and 'plugins' in the current directory. --deprecated is necessary if you wish to load deprecated plugins.
<lexxan> @load --deprecated Infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: The operation succeeded.
<lexxan> list infobot
<lexxan> @list infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: stats, status, and tell
<lexxan> @list infobot stats
<uhelp> lexxan: (list [--private]  [<plugin>] ) -- Lists the commands available in the given plugin. If no plugin is given, lists the public plugins available. If --private is given, lists the private plugins.
<lexxan> @list stats
<uhelp> lexxan: Error: 'stats' is not a valid plugin.
<lexxan> @list infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: stats, status, and tell
<lexxan> @list stats
<uhelp> lexxan: Error: 'stats' is not a valid plugin.
<lexxan> @stats
<uhelp> lexxan: I have 1 registered users with 0 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
<lexxan> @status
<uhelp> lexxan: Since Mon May  2 17:22:46 2005, there have been 0 modifications and 0 questions. I have been awake for 7 minutes and 36 seconds this session, and currently reference 19 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
<lexxan> @tell
<uhelp> lexxan: (tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells the <nick> whatever <text> is. Use nested commands to your benefit here.
<lexxan> @infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: (infobot <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Infobot plugin. Use 'list Infobot' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Infobot' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's (1 more message)
<lexxan> @list infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: stats, status, and tell
<lexxan> @infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: (infobot <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Infobot plugin. Use 'list Infobot' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Infobot' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's (1 more message)
<lexxan> list Infobot
<lexxan> @infobot list
<uhelp> lexxan: (infobot <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Infobot plugin. Use 'list Infobot' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Infobot' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's (1 more message)
<Burgundavia> lexxan, can I get some info on what the eggbot config files?
<lexxan> @infobot list infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: (infobot <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Infobot plugin. Use 'list Infobot' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Infobot' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's (1 more message)
<lexxan> Burgundavia, What do you mean
<Burgundavia> your config files?
<Burgundavia> did you use any plugins, etc.
<lexxan> No..
<lexxan> I just used the default one
<Burgundavia> just a default install?
<lexxan> and added the tcl for !learn
<Burgundavia> ok
<lexxan> very easy setup
<lexxan> http://www.infobot.org/factpacks/
<lexxan> check out those
<lexxan> Linux.fact
<lexxan> @load Factoids
<uhelp> lexxan: The operation succeeded.
<lexxan> @learn root blah blah blah
<uhelp> lexxan: (learn [<channel>]  <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
<lexxan> @learn root as blah blah blah
<uhelp> lexxan: The operation succeeded.
<lexxan> @whatis root
<uhelp> lexxan: 'root' could be blah blah blah
<lexxan> :(
<lexxan> I don't like these bots
<lexxan>  / scripts
<lexxan> @unload Factoids
<uhelp> lexxan: The operation succeeded.
<lexxan> @unload Infobot
<uhelp> lexxan: The operation succeeded.
<lexxan> I really like this script.. I just wish it had a few more options
<Burgundavia> which bot is this?
<lexxan> just the one I have
<lexxan> with ??
<Burgundavia> eggdrop?
<lexxan> ya
<lexxan> ?? dvd
<[uhelp] > dvd: To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<lexxan> I dunno if we can edit each others
<lexxan> !learn del dvd
<lexxan> hmm it did work
<lexxan> !learn add dvd To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<lexxan> I'm going to see if energy mech has any good ones
<lexxan> !learn
<lexxan> !learn dvd To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<lexxan> ?? dvd
<[uhelp] > dvd: To setup DVD playing, see http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<lexxan> !whoset dvd
<lexxan> !whoset dvd
<dcraven> ** rar
<[uhelp] > Sorry, no matches for rar on the defenition database. (0.002s)
<Burgundavia> hmm, typo there
<dcraven> hehe Yeah.
<Burgundavia> ?? universe
<[uhelp] > universe[x] : No defenition found for word.
<Burgundavia> ?? multiverse
<[uhelp] > multiverse[x] : No defenition found for word.
<dcraven> ?? repository
<[uhelp] > repository: To add repositories such as multiverse or marillat please see - http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#repositories -OR- you can use synaptic package manager - Settings --> Repositories --> Remove all --> Readd with the + Add button (note: this method does not enable the marillat repositories)
<lexxan> ** repo
<[uhelp] > Found 1 matches. Sorted: repository. (0.001s)
<lexxan> !learn del repository
<lexxan> !learn
<lexxan> !learn add
<lexxan> !learn add repository To add repositories such as multiverse or marillat please see - http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#repositories
<lexxan> !learn add repository You can use synaptic package manager - Settings --> Repositories --> Remove all --> Readd with the + Add button (note: this method does not enable the marillat repositories)
<lexxan> ?? repository
<[uhelp] > repository[1] : To add repositories such as multiverse or marillat please see - http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#repositories
<Burgundavia> !learn del repository
<[uhelp] > repository[2] : You can use synaptic package manager - Settings --> Repositories --> Remove all --> Readd with the + Add button (note: this method does not enable the marillat repositories)
<lexxan> ah that's cool.
<Burgundavia> the ubuntuguide is crap for that
<lexxan> ok
<Burgundavia> I am looking for a good wiki page for it
<dcraven> !learn add unrar To unrar files, install the "unrar-nonfree" package located in the multiverse Ubuntu repository.
<Burgundavia> dcraven, write access to the bot is limited
<lexxan> I said he could help earlier
<dcraven> Burgundavia: Yeah.
<lexxan> He writes wikis and stuff
<Burgundavia> I dind
<Burgundavia> I have no issues with others having write access
<lexxan> You guys figure it out lol
<Burgundavia> just mentioning the fact
<Burgundavia> ?? unrar
<lexxan> I think i just found a better script
<[uhelp] > unrar: To unrar files, install the "unrar-nonfree" package located in the multiverse Ubuntu repository.
<dcraven> lexxan: lol
<Burgundavia> oh
<mkde> don't you need the "rar" package too?
<lexxan> still ?? script but more options
<dcraven> mkde: I don't believe so.
<mkde> ok
<mkde> i haven't tested, i just seem to remember
<dcraven> mkde: I don't have it.
<Burgundavia> mkde, unrar-nonfree and unrar conflict
<dcraven> lexxan: The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is that you cannot edit/change my entries and vice versa.
<lexxan> It seems to work fine now dcraven
<mkde> Burgundavia, ah i see, i wasn't aware of the nonfree version
<dcraven> lexxan: Oh yeah? Cool.
<Burgundavia> mkde, hmm, nonfree software sucks
<mkde> i see it now
<mkde> unrar+rar works for me, but i presume neither are free
<lexxan> I found a nice one
<lexxan> it has a lock option too
<lexxan> nicer*
<dcraven> Non-free does suck, but apparently the Free version won't unrar files rared with version > 3 or something.
<Burgundavia> yep
* mkde nods
<lexxan> shit it doesn't have a search mode though
<lexxan> grrrrrrrrrrrr
<mkde> anyone good with evolution?
<dcraven> lexxan: What's wrong with the one you have?
<dcraven> mkde: #ubuntu
<dcraven> mdke: hahaha
<mkde> dcraven, grrr
<mkde> naturally i tried #ubuntu
<dcraven> mkde: I'm just jerkin' your chain dude. :)
<mkde> np
<mkde> so is anyone?
<lexxan> !learn add test test
<lexxan> ?? add
<mkde> ?? test
<lexxan> ?? test
<lexxan> ?? add
<[uhelp] > add[1] : test test 
<Burgundavia> mkde, I really really like your front page
<mkde> :))))))))))))))))))))
<lexxan> !lock add
<mkde> two really's?
<lexxan> !unlock add
<lexxan> !learninfo
<mkde> lexxan, is there a function for listing all the stuff the bot has, maybe in a PM to the person who calls it?
<lexxan> !lhelp
<lexxan> I think this one does
<mkde> !lhelp
<mkde> nowt here
<lexxan> i gotta go eat tho
<lexxan> don't change anything right now
* mkde sits on hands
* dcraven changes things
* mkde slaps dcraven 
* dcraven cowers
<mkde> you're a disruptive influence
<mkde> now go stand in the corner
<dcraven> heh
<lexxan> !learnlist
<lexxan> !learn root blah blah
<lexxan> !learnlist
<lexxan> This one is a lil better
<lexxan> actually
<lexxan> ** root
<[uhelp] > Found 2 matches. Sorted: root, sudo. (0.001s)
<Burgundavia> !learnlist
<lexxan> ** root
<lexxan> Well I'd much rather have search than !learnlist heh
<mkde> right i'm going to go to bed again
<mkde> second time lucky
<mkde> nite
<Burgundavia> cya
<lexxan> nice
<lexxan> my replacement optical mouse just arrived
<lexxan> thank god
<lexxan> u can add whatever now
<lexxan> back to the original
<lexxan> !learn add mousebackforward To setup your forward and back buttons on your intellimouse see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IntellimouseMousemanBackForwardButtons
<Burgundavia> !learn add firewall A nice gui to configure a firewall is Firestarter, which is in universe
<Burgundavia> ?? firewall
<[uhelp] > firewall: A nice gui to configure a firewall is Firestarter, which is in universe
<lexxan> i love microsoft intellimouses
<lexxan> Did the admins reply??
<Burgundavia> no idea
<jsgotangco> jeffsch, hey
<jeffsch> hey
<jeffsch> ?? firewall
<[uhelp] > firewall: A nice gui to configure a firewall is Firestarter, 
<jeffsch> ?? asdf
<[uhelp] > asdf[x] : No defenition found for word.
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> ?? ubuntu
<[uhelp] > ubuntu[x] : No defenition found for word.
<jeffsch> ?? emacs
<[uhelp] > emacs[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> gotta add them :P
<lexxan> What would be really sweet is if you go ?? <string> and it searches the wiki and PMs the links back
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> i just discovered this bot today
<jsgotangco> i just arrived home last night
<jeffsch> it's a new toy :)
<jsgotangco> how many holes does it have
<jsgotangco> *grin*
<lexxan> no idea
<lexxan> it's an eggdrop.. which is secure
<lexxan> the tcl script for ?? etc .. who knows
<jsgotangco> hehe i was just messing around with the hole thing because its a new "toy"
<jeffsch> it's new for #ubuntu-doc
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: are you going to write up something for us about udu?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> yeah in  day i guess i gotta fix some things first i just arrived a few hours ago
<jeffsch> did you get any insight into what the docteam should be concentrating on now?
<jsgotangco> there are some stuff at the moment on the high priority list that will affect stuff
<jsgotangco> but most of them are from rosetta/launchpad which i have no clue at all
<jeffsch> any idea what docs should we be doing?
<jsgotangco> my immediate ToDO list show that we need to create a PDF/paper flyer for every release that can be used for conferences
<jsgotangco> also we need to create some docs on best practices about having an ubuntu booth at conferences
<jsgotangco> a webpage or wikipage
<jsgotangco> sort of that
<jsgotangco> then there's stuff about documentation for developers.
<jeffsch> hmmm... shouldn't the marketing types be doing the conference docs and best practices, etc?
<jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
<lexxan> I'd run a booth.. that'd be cool :P
* jeffsch is away: Away at the moment
<jsgotangco> im so tired
<jsgotangco> hmm no changes in svn for a while
<jsgotangco> i should change that
<lexxan> ** mouse
<[uhelp] > Found 1 matches. Sorted: mousebackforward. (0.101s)
<lexxan> ?? mousebackforward
<[uhelp] > mousebackforward: To setup your forward and back buttons on your intellimouse see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/IntellimouseMousemanBackForwardButtons
<charles> YAY NIGGER DOC TEAM!!!
<lexxan> charles YAY NIGGER DOC TEAM!!!
<lexxan> :/
<bob2> jesus
<lexxan> charles, Don't you have something better to do???
<lexxan> =[
* cc wonders if someone would do the obKick
<lexxan> Why are there no ops in here anyway
<bob2> because there was an assumption pathetic little children like charles would find something useful to do
* lexxan throws a rotten egg at charles 
<lexxan> =[
<cc> bob2: well, if you've forgotten, i'm a charles too :P
<bob2> cc: you're the good charles ;-p
<bob2> cc: I mean, using ubuntu and all...
<cc> bob2: haha. not yet mate, not yet
<bob2> 'tis only a matter of time
<lexxan> !learn add test test
<cc> bob2: had to give away my cd to the cab driver
<lexxan> Ok
<lexxan> I got the bot definition listings on the web now
<lexxan> http://68.147.183.138:888/~uhelp/
<bob2> hahaha
<lexxan> what
<lexxan> !learn del test
<BeerDump> lunch bbl
<lexxan> thanks.
<cc> nice, k-line the sucker ;-)
<cc> bob2: that one's for you: http://www.bytebot.net/blog/archives/2005/05/02/ole-ole-ole-ubuntu-boleh
<bob2> hahaha
<bob2> it's only a matter of time
<cc> bob2: it is; i have the ISOs sitting here tbh. and ~/ is backed up
<mpt> Just for the sake of argument
<mpt> assume that I got a DSL modem yesterday.
<mpt> And an installer CD that works on Windows or Mac OS X.
<mpt> I need to figure out how to use it in Ubuntu.
<mpt> I can't go on the Internet to find out how to do it, of course, because going on the Internet is what I need help with.
<mpt> So I look in the Ubuntu help:
<jsgotangco> hi mpt 
<mpt> It appears to have nothing about connecting to the Internet at all.
<mpt> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> brb
<lexxan> !learn add marillathoary To quickly add the marillat repository enter this in console - echo deb http://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat testing main| sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list - Now type sudo apt-get update
<lexxan> ?? marillathoary
<[uhelp] > marillathoary: To quickly add the marillat repository enter this in console - echo deb http://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat testing main| sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list - Now type sudo apt-get update
<lexxan> ?? restricted
<[uhelp] > restricted: To find out more about java, dvd playing, codecs etc. see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
<jiyuu0> ??
<[uhelp] > ??[x] : Usage: ?? <word> [> nick] 
<jiyuu0> lexxan, how to see the list of ??
<lexxan> !learn add repository To add repositories please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/AddingRepositoriesHowto/
<lexxan> d/sn lexxan
<lexxan> oops
<lexxan> http://68.147.183.138:888/~uhelp/
<lexxan> the .dat file..
<lexxan> shit I don't think that's working right
<lexxan> hmm it is actually n/m
<lexxan> cept my damn browser has it cached
<lexxan> i guess wget works :P
<lexxan> !learn add danko The channel clown
<lexxan> !learn del danko
<lexxan> !learn add sdparm Check out - http://sg.torque.net/sg/
<lexxan> !learn del sdparm
<lexxan> !learn add sdparm Check out - http://sg.torque.net/sg/sdparm.html
<jsgotangco> hi froud
<froud> hi
<froud> you back from UDU?
<lexxan> !learn add ubuntucd To get Ubuntu mailed to you on CD see - http://shipit.ubuntu.com/
<jsgotangco> yeah i just arrived last night
<froud> got a bad dose of Jet lag I guess
<jsgotangco> heh no...sydney is just 8 hours away
<jsgotangco> just tired
<froud> OK, every time I go to the AU, the jet lag kills me
<Burgundavia> lexxan, 
<Burgundavia> ?? shipit
<[uhelp] > shipit: You will be contacted before any Ubuntu CD's ordered through Shipit are shipped
<lexxan> ah
<Burgundavia> they can both exist
<Burgundavia> as they actual tell different info
<lexxan> ya
<lexxan> ** shipit
<[uhelp] > Found 2 matches. Sorted: shipit, ubuntucd. (0.002s)
<froud> you guys having fun are you?
<Burgundavia> froud, the bot is fun
<Burgundavia> fast and easy to work with
<froud> cool, so long as you are having fun
<Burgundavia> also working on starting a Ubuntu in Inuktitut proposal
<froud> :-)
<lexxan> Something to do while I wait for work to come up =] 
<froud> Hows about you guys hacking the User Manual or the FAQ Guide?
<lexxan> ?? packages
<[uhelp] > packages[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> ** apt
<[uhelp] > Found 5 matches. Sorted: apt, is, java, marillathoary, synaptic. (0.003s)
<lexxan> ?? is
<[uhelp] > is: in universe. sudo apt-get install firestarter
<lexxan> haha
<lexxan> something is borked
<lexxan> !learn del is
<lexxan> ?? firestart
<lexxan> er
<[uhelp] > firestart[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> ?? firestarter
<[uhelp] > firestarter[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> hrm
<lexxan> ?? firewall
<[uhelp] > firewall: A nice gui to configure a firewall is Firestarter, 
<lexxan> !learn del firewall
<lexxan> !learn add firewall A nice gui to configure a firewall is Firestarter which is in the universe repository.
<lexxan> Burgundavia, Did you see the link to get the file for all the definitions?
<Burgundavia> yes I did
<lexxan> ah ok.
<froud> tele-commuting or telecommuting?
<Burgundavia> the 2nd for NA
<froud> NA?
<Burgundavia> north america
<froud> :-)
<jeffsch> if you had to choose one doc, and one doc only, that we would release with Breezy, which would it be?
<froud> User Guide
<bob2> the wiki
<froud> bob2 wiki sucks and cant be easily packaged
<jsgotangco> user guide is our best bet
<bob2> the ubuntu guide has crack in it
<jsgotangco> and have the wiki extend to what the user guide can't when its frozen
<bob2> like telling people to use marillat repositories
<bob2> and mentioning the broken broken backports
<jeffsch> User Guide is different from ubuntu guide
<jsgotangco> froud, won't that jiy0u whats his name delete those stuff
<jsgotangco> because ubuntuguide.org is getting so associated with ubuntu itself
<froud> we want ubuntuguide in svn, he has agreed and Burgundavia is already porting th enew version to it
<froud> bob2: I dont understand
<bob2> hm?
<froud> crack, marillat repositories, broken broken backports
<froud> what doe sthat mean
<Burgundavia> marillat repos for nonfree stuff
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> backports are run by the forums crew
<jsgotangco> backports just screw up when upgrading
<bob2> ubuntuguide encourages people to use Christian Marillat's repositories
<bob2> instead of multiverse
<bob2> and mentions the backports project, which produce terribly broken packages
<Burgundavia> I had some good interactions with jdogson of the forums
<froud> OK now I undersatnd
<bob2> which have already broken upgrades for people
<froud> yes, we have problems with this doc
<froud> which is why we want it in svn
<froud> at present it is closed source to us
<froud> but it seems we cannot get people to actually agree to get rid of it and swork in one place, namely svn
* froud is in a grumpy mood today
<Burgundavia> bob2, what do you recommend for libdvdcss2?
<jeffsch> how much overlap is there between User Guide and ubuntuguide?
<Burgundavia> and w32codecs?
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, some
<bob2> Burgundavia: someone putting it somewhere sane
<bob2> w32codecs can't be distributed by anyone
<froud> jeffsch: ubuntuguide is faq
<Burgundavia> bob2, is there an ubuntu plan?
<bob2> I think it's kinda dodgy to even be mentioning it
<bob2> ubuntu can't touch all that crap
<bob2> no one can, but some people choose to ignore the jeoperdy tthey put themselves in
<froud> bob2: no, but people wnat them
<bob2> people want lots of things
<Burgundavia> people need to play this stuff
<lexxan> Well how else are you going to use linux as a desktop.. you need codecs
<lexxan> heh
<bob2> "need"
<Burgundavia> and totem-gstreamer is completely borked
<bob2> dudes
<lexxan> Well if I can't have the w32codecs.. I'm using windowsxp
<bob2> they only time you get files in those formats is when you're downloading them off bittorent already
<jeffsch> froud: so info is similar, but format is different
<froud> com eto xmms
<bob2> lexxan: you can do whatever you want
<froud> faq is terse
<Burgundavia> bob2, what about all the crap on the web?
<Burgundavia> and playing dvds?
<Burgundavia> I understand your position but understand ours
<jeffsch> format is different, and audience is different
<bob2> playing dvds is reasonable, and I'm sure someone else will host libdvdcss
<bob2> crimsun was, iirc
* froud is really not in the mood for chewing the same cud again
* jsgotangco agrees with bob2
<jeffsch> froud: I'm just trying to clarify for myself. I have no argument with desire for the two docs
<jsgotangco> well for sure the restricted formats thing is so touchy but its two sides of the coin
<Burgundavia> in hoary totem-gstreamer is borked
<Burgundavia> plain and simple
<Burgundavia> as it was in warty
<bob2> "borked"?
<Burgundavia> even with gstreamer-ffmpeg, it simply won't play most non-free codecs
<jsgotangco> who's problem is it gnome or ubuntu?
<bob2> you mean "doesn't play proprietary formats that Ubuntu is not permitted to support by law"?
<Burgundavia> things that totem-xine works fine with
<Burgundavia> which places us in a very interesting position
<Burgundavia> as we want to produce authoritative docs
<Burgundavia> but cannot advocate breaking the law
<bob2> refer them somewhere else
<jsgotangco> just put that its beyond the scope of the document plain and simple
<Burgundavia> but for me, it boils down to this: If we do not produce good docs that produce a *usable* desktop then things like ubuntuguide.org will still exist
<bob2> usable != supporting random crap people download of kazaa
<Burgundavia> I am not talking about random crap off of kazaa
<Burgundavia> I am talking movie trailers
<Burgundavia> multimedia sucks on legal linux
<bob2> yes
<jsgotangco> its the hard truth
<bob2> that's a problem with the legal systems of most countries
<bob2> I think more people than you realise don't care, tho
<bob2> e.g. the million linux machines sun deployed in china don't care if they can play movie trailers
<Burgundavia> What people want is a usable system
<Burgundavia> that includes multimedia
<jsgotangco> question is how broad is that audience
<bob2> Burgundavia: dude
<jsgotangco> for sure, its not "all"
<bob2> you're making statements without research
<bob2> which is silly
<bob2> yes, some people care.  maybe lots of people.  but not all.
<Burgundavia> bob2, I spend a lot of time in #ubuntu
<Burgundavia> I talk to peple
<Burgundavia> most users of computers view movie files
<bob2> me too
<bob2> people come to #ubuntu when they have problems
<bob2> the vast vast majority of users do not come there
<Burgundavia> I think you would be hard pressed to find a linux machine out there, used as a desktop machine, that cannot play .mov, etc.
<Burgundavia> which means they probably broke the law to do it
<bob2> mine can't
<Burgundavia> sorry bob2, but I think you are almost alone in that
<bob2> as you kep saying, based on your "feel" of the world
<bob2> I think you'd be surprised
<bob2> but this is silly, just stop making assumptions
<lexxan> Well right now.. I can't get my vcd i downloaded to play without burning
<jsgotangco> thorapeautic went to the conference and discussed the very same things but in reality, we cant just do most of that stuff 
<lexxan> that is damn annoying.
<bob2> it's worth documenting, my only concern is whether it should be in an official documentation already
<bob2> jsgotangco: I know, I talked to him there about it
<jsgotangco> bob2, me too, we talked first before he found you
<bob2> ah
<Burgundavia> bob2, are there real legal concerns for canonical about documenting it?
<bob2> I don't know
<jsgotangco> unless canonical licenses them i guess
<Burgundavia> if there are no legal concerns about ubuntu docs mentioning how to do it, then they should mention it
<Burgundavia> I suspect that it would fall under the fact that while the book can tell you how to break into a house, it doesn't do it, and is therefor legal
<bob2> on the other hand, it's illegal to possess lockpicking tools in many places
<Burgundavia> true
<bob2> and it's illegal to document how atm's work
<Burgundavia> but I would put the lockpicking tools under the same category as the person who shares out the w32codecs, not he person who documents how to use them
<Burgundavia> we are not a bank
<bob2> indeed
<bob2> and you're not a book about breaking into houses
<Burgundavia> ok then, taht being established, what do we realistically recommend about nonfree crap
<jsgotangco> that its not part of the scope
<Burgundavia> yes it is
<Burgundavia> we are the ubuntu documentation team
<Burgundavia> we document how to use ubuntu
<jsgotangco> we dont support it in the first place
<Burgundavia> full stop
<Burgundavia> we explain and inform
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, being that we still need a scope
<Burgundavia> we do
<Burgundavia> "we document how to use ubuntu"
<bob2> hm, I don't see any discussion of this on the list
<jsgotangco> that's too general we don't have "how to use XP" in the first place
<Burgundavia> it has not been an issue
<jsgotangco> we know its non free and that's our limit
<jsgotangco> why try to extend
<Burgundavia> unless there is a legal threat to canonical, there is reason we cannot document how to add this stuff
<Burgundavia> we just need to also explain the risks
<jsgotangco> we can just say that but i dont think its good to point what to do
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, say again, I don't understand
<jsgotangco> we know the legal stuff we just have to say its not legal on our product but we don't say where they have to go to get it
<Burgundavia> if we don't say where to get it, people will continue to use cracked stuff like ubuntuguide.org
<Burgundavia> where the damage is far far worse
<jsgotangco> we can probably buy ubuntuguide.org name
<Burgundavia> that is not the issue
<jsgotangco> but that would be a vicious cycle
<jsgotangco> d00d
<jsgotangco> people install crap
<jsgotangco> its their choice
<Burgundavia> the issue that we must provide one stop shopping for docs
<Burgundavia> people install crap
<Burgundavia> I don't call video codecs crap
<Burgundavia> I call them pragmaticallly useful
<Burgundavia> even decidedly nonfree and legally dicey
<jsgotangco> its just a term ok the nonfree stuff and backports are an issue ever since
<Kinnison> Hi
<jsgotangco> Kinnison, hey
<Burgundavia> salut Kinnison 
<jsgotangco> did you accept mako's coc?
<sladen> Burgundavia: pong
<Burgundavia> hey
<jsgotangco> hi sladen hows it going
<Burgundavia> so you are rewriting the sudo stuff on the wiki
<Burgundavia> I got a crack at RooSudo today
<Burgundavia> do you have a list of pages that need to be worked on, etc?
<sladen> jsgotangco: busyilly, lemme find this LUG somewhere in Melbourne that starts in half an hour
<Burgundavia> sladen, would you mind email ubuntu-doc about the root thing, so that we can get involved and help you in anyway?
<jiyuu0> new version of ubuntu add-on cd is out: http://ubuntuguide.org/add-on-cd
* mdke looks at log
<mdke> whoa
<jsgotangco> hey mdke 
<mdke> hi jsgotangco 
<mdke> there's been a lively debate in here?
<jsgotangco> i still believe in the scope of the document for official documentaiton, not a free for all document
<jsgotangco> things just get screwed up
<mdke> well i haven't read the whoe debate, but i would tend to agree with what bob2 is saying about those repositories screwing things up
<mdke> ubuntuguide is so closely associated with Ubuntu now, it is really misleading about the legality/safety of those repositories and the packages they contain
<jsgotangco> that's not a complicated thing, just remove those right
<mdke> or perhaps document them better
<jsgotangco> you can't point them where to get those nonfree stuff
<jsgotangco> we can't stop other people from doing something similar to what ubuntuguide.org now has, but we have to keep ourselves to official stuff
<mdke> the problem is jsgotangco, once a guide acquires that level of importance, it becomes so entwined with ubuntu, and it also acquires certain responsibilities IMO
<jsgotangco> theres also the issue of backports
<mdke> yeah
<jsgotangco> id rather not compromise on such stuff i'd rather be blunt and say we can't/don't do/support that stuff
<mdke> jiyuu0, what is your view on all this?
<jiyuu0> mdke, i'm also concern... but not sure what to do
<mdke> jiyuu0, IMO what needs to be done is that the section on repositories contains a full warning and explanation of what each repository does, and then the main document, instead of instructing users to add all repositories automatically, informs them of which repository is necessary for the relevant package
<mdke> personally, i added and then removed marillat for libdvdcss2, and that works fine for me. if i were writing the doc, that would be what i'd advise
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> but an important question is also method: is the doc to be written by one person, or is it to be opened up to the documentation team
<jsgotangco> anything that is out of order is of personal view of the writer and does not reflect the view of the docteam or ubuntu in general
<jiyuu0> at the general notes... i've stated 
<jiyuu0> This is an Unofficial Ubuntu 5.04 Starter Guide. It is not associated with Ubuntu and Canonical Ltd.
<mdke> sure, but the popularity of the site has rather outweighed that statement now
<jiyuu0> about the repository... i'm still thinkin how to modify it... cause w32codec, transcode uses it too
<jiyuu0> mdke, not sure that's a good news or not :)
<jiyuu0> it started as a personal documentation
<jsgotangco> nobody reads that stuff people just pull whatever they want so I would rather have them all removed
<jiyuu0> that's what i think of too... that's why... ppl missed this line often 
<jiyuu0> How to add extra repositories?
<jiyuu0> they just go direct and apt-get install
<jiyuu0> wif that... sure there's a prob
<jsgotangco> im going to take a short nap
<jsgotangco> im still to tired
<jsgotangco> brb
<mdke> jiyuu0, yes saying "read How to add extra repositories" does not necessarily tell the user to add them. that's why I'd prefer a method which refers to the individual repository required for a package
* jiyuu0 scratching his head
<mdke> jiyuu0, you want me to be clearer?
<jiyuu0> i understand... only thinkin how to put it in that way
<mdke> oh right
<jiyuu0> afraid might be confusing
<mdke> yeah its a big job
<jiyuu0> true
<mdke> jiyuu0, perhaps write to the docteam list and see what people think?
* jiyuu0 wonders... should he remove marillat then for libdvdcss2, use wget and dpkg method
<jiyuu0> not sound good...
<mdke> my technique is to add marillat and then comment it out
<jiyuu0> i've tried it previously... for mplayer
<jiyuu0> that technique
<jiyuu0> till found out apt-get -t will do the trick
<jiyuu0> so does transcode
<mdke> jiyuu0, no the technique you used for mplayer is different
<mdke> that was to remove marillat only while installing mplayer
<jiyuu0> oh.. the other way
<jiyuu0> add when needed
<mdke> my technique is to remove it at all times, except when installing what is absolutely needed
<mdke> but in an ideal world, libdvdcss2 would be in marillat i guess
<mdke> *cough*
<mdke> multiverse i mean
<kosmic_youth> hello
<mdke> hi there
<mdke> yo
<kosmic_youth> I have a small problem with launchpad, whenever I click on translate, launchpad gives me a error -> A system error occurred.
<mdke> kosmic_youth, exactly what do you do
<jalrnc> mdke: just as a side note... I seem to be able to translate fine... with no error...
<mdke> jalrnc, hi
<mdke> jalrnc, kosmic_youth, i had a problem yesterday: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/528
<kosmic_youth> first i login then I select what i want to translate (in this case i select Quickguide (portuguese)) and when i click with gives me the -> System error occurred
<mdke> see if it is the same, and if not, file another bug
<kosmic_youth> ok i will give it a look
<kosmic_youth> thank
<mdke> kosmic_youth, also you can try #launchpad
<jalrnc> mdke: I get the same!
<jalrnc> mdke: I have no problem if I select "all items" though, instead of "untranslated items"
<mdke> jalrnc, ditto
<mdke> kosmic_youth, also, if no one replies, try mailing rosetta-users@
<kosmic_youth> ok
<mdke> best thing is to file a bug tho
<jalrnc> mdke: it may be related to yours, as I bet he has "unstranslated items" being selected by default, instead of "all items"
<mdke> is he in the pt group?
<jalrnc> mdke: yep
<mdke> possibly
<mdke> afk
<mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22860
<mdke> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<lexxan> ?? grub
<[uhelp] > grub: Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst
<lexxan> !learn del grub
<lexxan> !learn add grub Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst
<lexxan> !learn ins grub http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> !learn ins grub 2 http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> ?? grub
<[uhelp] > grub: Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst
<lexxan> ?? grub 2
<[uhelp] > Hey lexxan, i've already told #ubuntu-doc about "grub"... no need to repeat (i think)
<lexxan> hm
<lexxan> !learn ins grub 1 http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> ?? gru
<lexxan> ?? grub
<[uhelp] > gru[x] : No defenition found for word.
<[uhelp] > grub: Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> !learn ins grub 2 http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> ?? grub
<[uhelp] > grub: Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> hmm
<lexxan> !learn del grub
<lexxan> !learn add grub Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst | Official Site - Please see - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply try
<lexxan> ing to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst
<lexxan> ack
<lexxan> !learn del grub
<lexxan> !learn add grub http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/GrubHowto -AND- Grub Boot floppy - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HowToMakeAGRUBBootFloppy. If you are simply trying to edit your bootup list, timeout or default OS to boot see /boot/grub/menu.lst | Official Site - http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.html
<lexxan> ??
<[uhelp] > ??[x] : Usage: ?? <word> [> nick] 
<lexxan> ?? rep
<[uhelp] > rep[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> !learn rep
<lexxan> Can anyone here program php?
<sladen> lexxan: lots of people, what are you trying to do?
<lexxan> Well
<lexxan> The bot is running and I have its .dat file on the web
<lexxan> If you could goto a php link and it would just search the file (its a text file)
<lexxan> and display results
#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-12
<mkde> hi hypatia, Burgundavia 
<hypatia> morning
<mkde> how are things?
<Burgundavia> good
<Burgundavia> I am planning my next big project
<mkde> whats that?
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu in inuktitut
<Burgundavia> the inuit language
<mkde> you mean a translation?
<Burgundavia> yes
<mkde> cool
<mkde> do you speak it?
<Burgundavia> there are some serious hurdles
<Burgundavia> no, I can't speak it
* mkde immagines the hurdles
<mkde> hieroglyphics
<Burgundavia> I need a gpl-ed font I think
<mkde> lack of words for things
<Burgundavia> probably
<mkde> maybe you can get someone to release the font under GPL
<mkde> if you're persuasive
<Burgundavia> there are already some fonts out there
<mkde> yeah i see
<Burgundavia> that can be freely downloaded
<mkde> http://www.gov.nu.ca/font.htm
<Burgundavia> but I need gpl-ed to put into the base
* mkde nods
<mkde> now, i've delayed the obvious question for a while
<mkde> why/
<mkde> ?
<Burgundavia> why not?
* mkde nods
<mkde> rephrase
<mkde> why you?
<mkde> don't say it...
<Burgundavia> nobody else is doing it?
<mkde> fair enough
<mkde> well best of luck
<Burgundavia> there is some translation work done already
<mkde> right
<mkde> what sort of user base are we talking?
<Burgundavia> probably just needs some polishing and political boost
<Burgundavia> the 2nd part would be putting computers into small communities in Nunavut
<mkde> see if you can get some money off shuttleworth
<Burgundavia> I am thinking fed. gov as well
<mkde> go for it
<mkde> how the hell do you get these ideas
<Burgundavia> I don't know
<Burgundavia> from my mind?
<mkde> no drugs involved at all?
<mkde> :p
<mkde> cool idea anyhow
<Burgundavia> nope, no drugs
<mkde> i'm off to bed
<mkde> best of luck with this project
<mkde> night
<jsgotangco> good morning
<lexxan_> Well i got a better idea for the bot.. my p166 laptop :P
<lexxan_> installing sarge now via floppy :P
<bob2> is "dennis craven" here?
<jsgotangco> no idea who this guy is sorry
<lexxan> bob2, Could we give the [uhelp]  voice to put it at the top of the list?
<lexxan> *you
<bob2> why?
<lexxan> I don't know Burgundavia wanted it there and someone else
<lexxan> just forget it
<bob2> ok
<lexxan> They can deal with it :P
<lexxan> i'll make sure it runs
<lexxan> !learn add bug To report bugs see - http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> lexxan
<Burgundavia> not quite correct
<lexxan> ok..
<lexxan> I don't know as much as you guys so fix whatever :P
<Burgundavia> well technically, universe bugs go to malone
<bob2> how do you delete incorrect factoids?
<Burgundavia>  bang del blah
<Burgundavia> bang learn del blah
<bob2> !del add bug
<bob2> !info add bug
<lexxan> !learn del bug
<bob2> not a blootbot it seems, that's a shame
<lexxan> Where do i get that?
<lexxan> I want the best script :/
<lexxan> ah
<lexxan> perl bot
<bob2> blootbot.sf.net
<lexxan> Does it work off ??
<bob2> very nice for this sort of thing
<bob2> "work off"?
<lexxan> Is it the same format
<bob2> you can do whatever trigger character you like
<lexxan> ah ok
<bob2> ?? is a bad choice, imho
<[uhelp] > is[x] : No defenition found for word.
<lexxan> why is that
<lexxan> you'd rather go [uhelp] , tell john about root
<lexxan> or something??
<bob2> anything that encourages people to use more than "?" is bad ;)
<bob2> !tell john about root
<lexxan> that's not bad
<lexxan> blootbot does that?
<bob2> of course
<lexxan> Workin on it
<lexxan> takes awhile to install mysql on a 166 laptop
<lexxan> haha
<lexxan> root
<lexxan> !tell lexxan about root
<lexxan> topic [help] 
<lexxan> !topic help
<lexxan> no clue how to use this thing :P
<lexxan> hopefully its secure
<lexxan> chanstats
<lexxan> !chanstats
<lexxan> @chanstats
<lexxan> root is at sfasdfasgdsdg
<lexxan> where can i find root?
<lexxan> ;/
<lexxan> add root blah
<lexxan> topic add root blah
<bob2> ?
<lexxan> !info blah
<lexxan> I have no idea how to use this thing lol.
<lexxan> uhelp: test is testing
<uhelp> lexxan: okay
<lexxan> uhelp: testing?
<uhelp> lexxan: are you smoking crack?
<lexxan> uhelp: test?
<uhelp> test is, like, testing
<lexxan> lol.
<bob2> uhelp: testing
<uhelp> bob2: i don't know
<bob2> uhelp: test
<uhelp> somebody said test was testing
<bob2> uhelp: fnord is This is a pointless factoid.
<uhelp> bob2: okay
<bob2> !fnord
<bob2> !fnord
<lexxan> !fnord
<bob2> uhelp: fnord
<uhelp> somebody said fnord was This is a pointless factoid.
<bob2> you set the trigger character to something else
<lexxan> If i can find that setting
<lexxan> heh
<lexxan> uhelp: uptime
<lexxan> topic fnord
<lexxan> !topic fnord
<lexxan> @fnord
<bob2> the bot is not going to change the topic
<bob2> uhelp: stats
<uhelp> Since Tue May  3 23:29:12 2005, there have been 2 modifications and 3 questions and 8 dunnos and 0 morons and 8 commands.  I have been awake for 15m 19s this session, and currently reference 2 factoids.  I'm using about 14872 kB of memory.
<lexxan> no shit
<lexxan> hmm
<lexxan> I can't find a trigger setting anywhere
<lexxan> uhelp: stats
<uhelp> Since Tue May  3 23:48:01 2005, there have been 0 modifications and 0 questions and 0 dunnos and 0 morons and 0 commands.  I have been awake for 13s this session, and currently reference 2 factoids.  I'm using about 14748 kB of memory.
<lexxan> Can you still access it bob2?
<bob2> uhelp: fnord
<uhelp> fnord is, like, This is a pointless factoid.
<lexxan> hmm
<lexxan> tell lexxan about fnord
<lexxan> uhelp: tell lexxan about fnord
<lexxan> What's so great about this bot haha
<bob2> ...
<bob2> the fact it's not annoying
<bob2> you tell it things
<bob2> it repeats them
<lexxan> How is that any different
<lexxan> the only diff i see is it uses mysql
<lexxan> uhelp: you are ugly.
<uhelp> lexxan: I think you lost me on that one
<lexxan> !tell lexxan about fnord
<lexxan> =[
<lexxan> I think i'd rather run infobot
<bob2> blootbot is infobot
<bob2> but actually maintained
<lexxan> It'd be nice if there was documentation
<lexxan> heh
<lexxan> !del fnord
<lexxan> I can't even dcc the bot
<lexxan> nor is the userfile even working
<lexxan> =[
<bob2> er
<bob2> why on earth would you dcc it?
<lexxan> I don't know.. the crappy README says you can
<bob2> but why would you want to?
<lexxan> who knows
<lexxan> I think you can do admin commands or something
<lexxan> so basically it works fine except the trigger?
<bob2> why would you do admin commands in dcc?
<lexxan> You tell me.
<_froud_> African Greetings
<bob2> I don't know why anyone would
<jsgotangco> hi froud 
<froud> hi
<lexxan> Hmm I'd use this bot if the trigger would work
<jsgotangco> froud, not so much activity in svn lately? im about to do stuff now
<froud> yeah, everyone is talking but no work :-(
<jsgotangco> froud, don't worry let's just do what we're supposed to do ive been silent on the list as well lately but it does not mean anything :)
<froud> :-) some of us are working behind the scenes ;-)
<jsgotangco> who's pulling stuff now?
<froud> huh?
<jsgotangco> i mean do we have new people doing stuff?
<froud> no, just a few of us are hacking various parts
<froud> jeff-away is progressing with the styleguide
<jsgotangco> ah right
<froud> I am working on installation
<froud> and user guide
<jsgotangco> that leaves me with kubuntu stuff then
<jsgotangco> that's great
<froud> no I have my eye on kubuntu
<jsgotangco> ok
<froud> i was waiting for you to get ahead with kwickguide
<froud> then planned helping you
<jsgotangco> im starting to get some steam again now after going home
<froud> yeah takes some effort to get back to normal after UDU
<froud> now I wait to see what the outcomes for UDU are?
<jsgotangco> yeah i also have a couple of ToDo
<jsgotangco> well i was wondering about some of my ToDo
<jsgotangco> we're supposed to do a flyer of sorts for conferences
<jsgotangco> but i was thinking maybe themarketing people are better off with these things
<Burgundavia> I already have the beginnings of one
<Burgundavia> I just haven't committed it
<froud> depends on what the flyer is supposed to do
<froud> yeah burgy has some ideas
<Burgundavia> we also have 2 paper sizes and other stuff
<froud> done in inkscape so it is xml
<jsgotangco> ok let me pull out my activity page
<jsgotangco> thats great
<jsgotangco> i didnt know inkscape does xml
<Burgundavia> svg is xml
<Burgundavia> and OO can export svg to pdf
<froud> yes
<jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences?highlight=%28JeromeGotangcoActivity%29%7C%28SpecAssignments%29%7C%28JeromeGotangcoQueue%29
<froud> w3c
<jsgotangco> pardon my ignorance
<froud> OOo is also xml
<Burgundavia> OO drawing can also do SVG
<jsgotangco> ok i know that OOo is in xml
<froud> just unzip the sxw and you get xml
<jsgotangco> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
<froud> XML RULES THE WORLD
<jsgotangco> ok i know some of that stuff so don't shove it on my face :)
* froud wonders if jsgotangco is touchy today
<froud> prod prod
<jsgotangco> i borked my laptop during UDU and still recovering my stuff thats why i havent committed at all
<Burgundavia> ouch
<jsgotangco> are there any MS Project viewers available in linux?
<Burgundavia> not yet
<Burgundavia> imendio project has it on the roadmap
<jsgotangco> ouch
<Burgundavia> project in the repos
<Burgundavia> planner
* jsgotangco wonders how he will open up the attachment
<Burgundavia> A: We're just getting started in this area. In the 0.13 version, a simple importer for the XML exchange format supported by MS Project 2002 and later.
<Burgundavia> .13 isn't packaged for anything yet
* jsgotangco groans
<Burgundavia> oh wait
<lexxan> Does anyone else here wanna run the infobot?
<Burgundavia> testing has it
<Burgundavia> so does unstable
<Burgundavia> so it just needs to sync
<Burgundavia> it may have already
<Burgundavia> confirmed, breezy has it
<Burgundavia> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/planner/ if you have a pbuilder chroot
<lexxan> K well was fun helping out. bye
<jeffsch> good evening
<jeffsch> any ideas on dictionary we can use for style guide?
<froud> Wbsters?
<jeffsch> something free would be nice
<froud> computerdictionary.tsf.org.za
<froud> Still needs work though
<froud> But Websters is online
<froud> FOLDOC
<jeffsch> I was thinking maybe aspell
<froud> spellchecker
<jeffsch> yes
<froud> hardly a dictionary
<jeffsch> true. but it has the spelling of words, which is the biggest part of the dictionary we need for our purposes
<jeffsch> and it can be customised
<froud> dict.org
<froud> that is free
<froud> braod database
<froud> and I can use Kdictionary
<jeffsch> The connection was refuse while attempting to contact dict.org
<froud> :-)
<froud> http://www.dict.org
<froud> On KDE we have K Dictionary which queries dict.org servers
<froud> dunno about gnome?
<froud> but there must be someting like it
<jeffsch> there is also Gnome Dictionary. it connects to many of the same dicts as dict.org
<froud> yeah they are just front ends
<jeffsch> good for defs, but confusing for spelling
<froud> My take is that we use US spell
<froud> So long as definition and spelling can be found in a US dict I am happy
<froud> I know that sounds strange comming from a south african
<froud> I should be punting UK en
<froud> but really US spelling is better
<froud> :-)
<froud> Flame war
<froud> Yahooooooo
<froud> !!!
<jeffsch> US spelling is usually more straight forward
<jeffsch> Canadian spelling is a compromise between US and UK
<froud> Hey, no compromises
<froud> :-)
<jeffsch> we should stick with US
<froud> Over at computerdictionary I am building a docbook glosaary database
<froud> Spell US
<froud> Here are my guidelines
<froud> http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/project/index.html#Dictionary+Guidelines
<jsgotangco> i go for us spelling
<froud> hooray for jsgotangco 
<jeffsch> Turabian? wut dat?
<jsgotangco> but i prefer the uk way of speaking hehe
<froud> now we just need the ozzies and the brits to agree
<froud> Chicago/Turabian style.
<mdke> US spelling?
<froud> http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/cmosfaq.html
<mdke> there is no such spelling
<jeffsch> I know of Chicago, but never see Chicago/Turabian
<froud> mdke: yes, and yes there is
<froud> That is Turabian
<jsgotangco> a brit take him!
<mdke> you'll never take me alive
* froud point RPG at mdke 
* mdke scurries off
<jsgotangco> froud, you know mark collet?
<froud> should I?
<jsgotangco> umm no just wondering
<jsgotangco> how about adi atta
<froud> adi yes
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<froud> mark collect from OOo
<jsgotangco> shes the one involved in xhosa right
<froud> yes
<froud> she gave us the xhosa xh
<jsgotangco> yes shes nice
* froud knows
<jsgotangco> heh
<froud> mark is down in Durban
* jsgotangco wonders if all women in za are like her
<froud> yes
<froud> :) big smile
<jsgotangco> but xh is a tribal language right?
<froud> yes
<froud> one of our 11
<jsgotangco> how about afrikaans
<froud> like old dutch
<froud> or flemish
<jsgotangco> interesting
* jsgotangco might pick up another language soon
<froud> very much an african language though
<jeffsch> aha! Turabian is for citations
<jsgotangco> adi gave me a lot of stickers thats why i remember her
<froud> jeffsch: yes
<froud> cms is great
<froud> definitive
<froud> but I also like Newton
<froud> "Newtons telcom dictionary"
<froud> but it is not online
<jeffsch> and cms only has index online
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, do you want me to build planner in a pbuilder chroot and install it so that you can extract that project stuff?
<jeffsch> you still must buy the book
<froud> register and the world opens
<froud> every writer should have a copy
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, not familiar with what you are saying but if i get to open that project file without any hitch im grateful
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I will not be able to get to it tell tomorrow night though
<jeffsch> I like Simon and Schuster Handboolk for Writers
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, no worries
<froud> not widely used, but also good
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> night all
<Kinnison> Morning
<jsgotangco> morning to you Kinnison 
<jsgotangco> bye bye
<mdke> sup y'all
<jjesse> hello mdke
<mdke> hi jjesse 
#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-13
<mdke> night homies
<mdke> i'm going to italy for a few days holiday :)
<mdke> see ya next week
<Burgundavia> lucky bastard
<mdke> *grins*
* Burgundavia gives mdke a boot
<mdke> hoy
<mdke> enough of that
<mdke> wheres the docteam love
<Burgundavia> there was lots until I heard you were having a holiday
<Burgundavia> is raining here
<mdke> hey you live in canada
<mdke> its a great country i've heard
<Burgundavia> I live in the only part of the country that reliably doesn't get snow
<Burgundavia> it is great
<mdke> skiing is great tho
<Burgundavia> snow should stay on the ski hill
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, doing well with your flyers?
<Burgundavia> haven't worked on them in a bit
<jsgotangco> no worries ive already starteddoing some drafts as well
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> why don't I send you the svg so we don't duplicate work
<jsgotangco> sure
<Burgundavia> sent
<jsgotangco> inkscape right
<Burgundavia> correct
<Burgundavia> scribus should also be able to play with it
<Burgundavia> and scribus can convert it to pdf
<Burgundavia> gmail is hacking up an error
<Burgundavia> sent
<jsgotangco> ok got it thanks
<jsgotangco> whats up
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, good start
<jsgotangco> ill play around with stuff as well
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> I kind of dropped it
<Burgundavia> when I realized we weren;t going to have a table
<Burgundavia> but until then I put about 10 hours into it
<jsgotangco> hmm?
<jsgotangco> we're getting a table
<jsgotangco> why now
<jsgotangco> not
<Burgundavia> at linuxfestnorthwest
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<jsgotangco> well future events we'll get a table
<Burgundavia> the people who were to join me fell apart
<jsgotangco> sorry to hear that
<Burgundavia> hey, my talk went off fine
<jsgotangco> oh thats great any violent reactions from the natives
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Burgundavia> a linux crowd, so I had a pretty friendly audience
<jsgotangco> brb switching to kubuntu
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> this is interesting
<jsgotangco> froud: hello
<froud> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<Kinnison> Morning
<mdke> hi ken
<mdke> Kinnison, 
<mdke> dammit
<mdke> you know what i mean
<mdke> hi all
<mdke> jsg, whats with the streamlined nick?
<jsg> you don't like it?
<mdke> sure i do
<mdke> just didn't recognise ya
<jsg> ohhh
<mdke> felt like you'd had a haircut
<mdke> :)
<jsg> i'm in a vanilla Kubuntu install right now and it feels so alien to me
<mdke> vanilla kubuntu... sounds tasty
<jsg> im not so familiar with kubuntu install but i still had to create a root user just to fix some stuff since sudo wont even work
<jsg> which is strange
<jsg> hmm
<mdke> jsg, that is odd
<mdke> we really need to get DocTeamWebPortal sorted out
<jsg> hmmm
<jsg> whats keeping you busy anyway
<mdke> had some exams
<mdke> today i'm off to italy for a few days
<jsg> hmmm what you going to do there
<jsg> i'd like to go there one time
<mdke> gtg to class now, maybe be in later, otherwise have a good weekend and i'll see ya next week
<mdke> byeeee
<mdke> see my girlfriend :)
<jsg> blah
<mdke> ok gtg
<mdke> bye
<jsg> bye
<jsg> see you guys later
<abelli> ksg ?
<abelli> jsg: ?
<jsg> jsgotangco :D
<abelli> jsg: i need to speak with you :)
<jsg> why?
<sm> hi all
<sm> mdke: restricted page types as you requested
<Burgundavia> salut sm
<sm> hi Burgundavia
<sm> out of interest, do you remember what problem you had with wiki search the other day ?
<Burgundavia> me?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> minor interface tweak
<Burgundavia> add another button titled "search" near the top
<Burgundavia> as most people don't look at the rest and thus have to scroll down about 2 pages to find the button (if they don't know that enter does the same thing)
<sm> ok I'm not sure what you mean.. I'd say more if you have a url for it
<sm> if not, np
<Burgundavia> on the search page
<Burgundavia> place a button for search right next to the main entry box
<Burgundavia> as most people don't use most of the advanced features
<Burgundavia> and hunting for the search button is very annoying
<sm> I'd need a url
<sm> there are at least two wikis and three search forms
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/search_form
<Burgundavia> this one
<sm> gotcha.. the plone advanced search form
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> is ther another search form?
<sm> there's a bunch :)
<sm> there used to be a small one at the top right of the page (now just a link)
<sm> there's zwiki's search form , http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki
<Burgundavia> ouch
<sm> there's the search that's done when you type http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/nonexistenturl
<Burgundavia> seen this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=blah&fulltext=Search
<sm> and of course the other sites/wikis people may be using
<sm> not recently.. that's nice
<Burgundavia> lucene
<Burgundavia> running with gcj, as wp is even more fanatical about free than ubuntu
<sm> I'll format the zwiki search more like it
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> the other cool thing is that it has one search box
<Burgundavia> rather than many, like the plone one
<sm> agreed
<Burgundavia> many confuses me (and if it confuses me, it is sure to confuse aunt tillie)
<sm> ubuntu site doesn't need the advanced search form
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> see me talk: http://cs.georgefox.edu/~jdodson/videos.php
<sm> Burgundavia: I like your "if that somehow does not work"
<sm> you act all surprised :)
<Burgundavia> things are supposed to work, dammit
#ubuntu-doc 2005-05-14
<jsg> good morning
* jsg is away: Away at the moment
* jsgAway is back.
<thegreedyturtle> ?? test
<jsg> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<jsg> brb
<jsgotangco> sjohnson jsgotangco: : ok.. cause i'm thinking at least an official handbook would be of IMMENSE help, and this Wiki stuff is pretty ramshackle.. for example, a user should know RIGHT AWAY what to do about setting a root password
<jsgotangco> im going home bye people
<abelli> ciao a tutti
<abelli> Kinnison: hola
<Kinnison> ciao abelli, come va?
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-08
<theCore> oh, one from my town :)
<LaserJock> yep
<theCore> hmm ... the membership process does something pretty good, it motivate peoples by giving them a clear objective
<LaserJock> yeah, and it also builds community spirit
<LaserJock> hi theCore and Unfrgiven 
<LaserJock> you guys might be interested to know that I got a print copy of the Packaging Guide
<theCore> LaserJock: a printed copy? 
<LaserJock> theCore: yeah. we are making the doc team guides available from lulu.com
<LaserJock> theCore: and I got the first test copy a couple days ago
<theCore> LaserJock: are they selling it yet?
<LaserJock> theCore: not yet, we are still getting the cover and tweaking done
<theCore> LaserJock: do they have artists for the cover design? or we doing it?
<LaserJock> well Madpilot did a good one but the artwork team is also working on something I think
<theCore> LaserJock: ok, then I'm on it :)
<theCore> A4, 300dpi?
<LaserJock> well, I think we probably have it nailed down now, but it is crown quarto in size
<theCore> crown quarto?
<LaserJock> yeah, I can't remember what it is exactly
<LaserJock> theCore: there is quite a discussion on the ML
<theCore> oh, crown quarto is C4
<theCore> which is 7" x 10"
<theCore> LaserJock: what is the thread name?
<LaserJock> lulu book or something like that
<LaserJock> heah, there's Madpilot now
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> was my name being taken in vain? ;)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> theCore was just wondering about the book cover
<hybrid> howdy
<LaserJock> hi hybrid 
<hybrid> i am interested in joining the team.
<hybrid> is there a process i need to follow?
<hybrid> (im still riding through the wiki )
<LaserJock> just a sec
<LaserJock> hybrid: ok, so what are you interested in?
<hybrid> LaserJock: i am willing to go with about anything, but i am a PPC user if that helps any
<hybrid> and I like Xubuntu or Ubuntu over Kubuntu :)
<LaserJock> well, are you interested in wiki pages or online documentation? wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects has a list of some projects the doc team is working on
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumenationTeam/GettingStarted might help
<hybrid> ok ty
<LaserJock> if you are more into wiki work then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTeam and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo should help
<hybrid> yeah i think i like the wiki team
<LaserJock> it is a little easier to get started working on. The official docs are written in XML and are stored in a svn repo
<hybrid> yeah i will go with the Wiki, i havent used XML in much time
<hybrid> ty LaserJock anything else i need to do?
<LaserJock> hybrid: not particularly, just work and make sure you keep the ubuntu-doc mailing list fairly informed about what your doing
<LaserJock> if you have questions ask here or on the list
<hybrid> ok ty much Laser_away 
<LaserJock> mdke: checkout http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/lulu/
<mdke> Laser_away: I can't see the latter 3 files, but the first two look exactly as they do on the electronic pdf, which is good news. Thanks for doing that
<Madpilot> hi mdke 
<mdke> hiya Madpilot 
<mdke> sorry I can't stay long, am late for work
<Madpilot> ouch, those admon graphics really are pixelated, aren't they?
<Madpilot> I'll redo them later this week for proper 300+dpi
<mdke> Madpilot: I'm not convinced its related to their resolution.
<mdke> but it might be, I suppose
<Madpilot> mdke, could well be - although even 90dpit web-resolution images should be a bit cleaner than those ones when printed
<mdke> i think they are getting resized
<mdke> not sure tho
<mdke> gtg
<Madpilot> later
<jjesse> mgalvin: are you creating a flight7 page?
<jsgotangco> he might not be aware of a flight 7 being cooked even
<mgalvin> jjesse: flight7!? is there such a thing?
<jsgotangco> see :)
<mgalvin> uh :-/
<mgalvin> :)
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: yeah probably later or tomorrow
<mgalvin> ok, um...
<jjesse> [09:40]  <Lure> jjesse: Flight 7 will be tommorow's daily if everything goes well
<jjesse> [09:42]  <Riddell> jjesse: yes, tomorrow
<jsgotangco> there was a huge zope upload too
<jsgotangco> as well as some kde deps
<mgalvin> i can try and whip something together
<mgalvin> i will start on it shortly
<jjesse> looks like i got a task for today :)
<LaserJock> mgalvin: did you do the website page for the Beta release?
<mgalvin> man, i am off on other things for a day or two and so many things happen
<mgalvin> LaserJock: yea
<mgalvin> and all the other flights
<LaserJock> mgalvin: what is the URL, somebody mentioned a typo on the forums
<jjesse> and i rushed KubuntuDapperBeta
<mgalvin> (although many other people help too)
<jjesse> for ubuntu its no longer a wiki page
<mgalvin> LaserJock: is at http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/dapperbeta
<mgalvin> what is the typo, i will have to fix it
<mgalvin> do you guys feel there is enough desktop related changes to warrent a full page... it seems to be mostly just bug fixes as far as i can tell (still need to look at the upload logs)
<LaserJock> on the Note on the the top it should be "a Beta release" instead of "an Beta release"
<jjesse> just bug fixes, not a full page
<jsgotangco> mgalvin: you can just put 1 sentence for the flight 7 page
<jsgotangco> "Surprise!"
<mgalvin> :)
<mgalvin> with a picture of squashed bugs :)
<mgalvin> that would be gross
<LaserJock> yeah, but it would get to the point
<mgalvin> LaserJock: the beta page is fixed
<LaserJock> darn it, that blows the whole point to my post
<LaserJock> I was trying to tell the poster that they shouldn't put typo fixes on the forums as people won't see them
<mgalvin> LaserJock: which post is that?
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=169485
<LaserJock> oh well ;-)
<mgalvin> LaserJock: well, i didn't find it on the forum so you are still right :)
<LaserJock> yeah, but I was enabling bad behavior
<trappist> what do you guys think of a 'troubleshooting guide' dedicated to when things don't go off as planned/documented?
<LaserJock> trappist: I think many people would find it helpful, but I think it would extrodinarly hard to do write well
<trappist> LaserJock: I'm not sure I agree with the last part.  we could produce a doc that covers some of the biggies, like X won't start, I can't login, I can't sudo, etc., then respond to users who want to see this or that added.
<LaserJock> yeah, it would depend on how you do it
<LaserJock> I would think it would be very hard to cover enough ground
<jsgotangco> it would be pretty advanced for most users though
<jsgotangco> or something like a troubleshooting guide included with appliances? :)
<LaserJock> many, many things can go wrong with X
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> it can either be kernel or x
<jsgotangco> most of the time
<trappist> LaserJock: it wouldn't have to cover how to fix every situation - its goal would be to enable the user to find out what went wrong.  how to use strace, gdb, log files, increasing log verbosity in various apps, things like that.
<LaserJock> But in the sense of having a guide to debugging and bug reporting, I think that is a cool idea
<trappist> once a user knows what went wrong, he may or may not be able to fix it, but he's definitely better equipped to ask for support
<LaserJock> I talked to sfflaw (the new Canonical QA guy) about that a bit yesterday
<trappist> or to file a bug report :)
<LaserJock> I was thinking of expanding the Packaging Guides treatment of bugs to include more of what you are talking about
<LaserJock> but maybe splitting it out into a seperate doc would be better
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: sure but don't expect majority of people to do a backtrace on an app that doesn't work for them heh
<jeffsch> trappist: maybe you can mine the forums to see what troubles people are having
<trappist> I do think troubleshooting deserves its own guide, but maybe it should be generic?  like, it should provide some overall strategies for approaching various problems and cover the use of some tools, locations of logs, etc., and leave individual apps to their respective guides?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: no, this is under my push for getting docs for people more towards the advanced side
<trappist> jeffsch: that's a great idea.  I spend a lot of time on #(k)ubuntu too, so I see a lot of what breaks.  mostly sound :)
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: yeah, i filed a bug about a year ago on some app in ubuntu (i forget which one), and the response was "please recompile with debug switches, or I'll cancel the bug"
<jeffsch> the bug eventually got cancelled
<trappist> it's been brought up that it would be helpful to have more -dbg packages in the repos.  I was actually thinking of a dbg repo.
<trappist> bandwidth was cited as a problem.
<trappist> and packaging time.
<LaserJock> trappist: more -dbg packages are being added
<trappist> ossum
<LaserJock> dholbach and seb128 have been adding them for the most frequently bugged gnome packages
<trappist> that rocks.  I'd sure love to see the same on the kde side, especially with kontact, kmail and konqueror
<trappist> (some of those may have dbg packages, I'm not sure)
<trappist> looks like no.
<LaserJock> well, we just have sooo many bugs to triage and work on that it is difficult to have to chase down every little thing
<LaserJock> that said, reporting a bug should be a fairly straightfoward and easy task for users
<LaserJock> trappist: anyway, I'd recommend talking with sfflaw about that doc
<Hoobly> hi.  anyone here?
<LaserJock> sure
<Hoobly> I was just in the Kubuntu channel and just found this one
<jsgotangco> hi
<LaserJock> Hoobly: heh, there are a lot of channels
<Hoobly> I would like to print the Kubuntu Quick Guide for distro with machines our Non-Profit gives to families without computers.  Is there a PDF available so I don't have to print every page one at a time?
<Hoobly> Or how can I get the documentation on CD?
<jsgotangco> Hoobly: do you mean the one for Kubuntu 5.10?
<trappist> LaserJock: who's that and where would I find him?
<LaserJock> sfflaw is the new QA guy that Canonical hired, he is in #ubuntu-bugs
<trappist> ah cool
<Hoobly> jsgotangco: yes
<mdke> we can make you one. That sounds like a really cool initiative
<mdke> Hoobly: can you email ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com about it, and I'll make sure I send you a pdf.
<jsgotangco> the one in trunk has changed compared to the one in the distro so you'll have to dig for past revisions i guess
<jsgotangco> (for 5.10)
<mdke> well, it's in the distro.
<mdke> hopefully making the pdf will work
<Hoobly> mdke: sent
<jsgotangco> mdke: kubuntu has the xml too? i thought it was already processed as khtml
<jsgotangco> it should work, i did that thing and tested in yelp heh
<mdke> jsgotangco: it's in the source for kubuntu-docs
<mdke> Hoobly: got it.
<jsgotangco> Hoobly: interesting place your work for
<mdke> Hoobly: size A4 pages?
<Hoobly> no.  Letter
<Hoobly> mdke: Letter
<mdke> Hoobly: how big is that (cm or inches)
<Hoobly> 8.5 inches by 11 inches
<LaserJock> mdke: lol
<mdke> Hoobly: Ive tried a preliminary build of a pdf but havent got it to work, there is some kind of a crash due to low memory. I think it might be due to the high quantity of images in the quickguide, so I will investigate and let you know by email.
<jsgotangco> mdke: can you do me a favor and pngcrush those images they're quite big and that is probably causing the choking if ever
<mdke> good idea
<mdke> how does it work?
<Hoobly> thank you.  let me know
<LaserJock> yeah, that thread on -devel about the recompressing .pngs might be useful for the repo
<mdke> http://pastebin.com/696316
<jsgotangco> mdke: its basically pngcrush original.name new.name but i guess you can do regex on it to do it in one shot (i didnt really test it)
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> its borked
<jsgotangco> dapper?
<mdke> y
<jsgotangco> i thought this was fixed already
<jsgotangco> try pngnq
<jsgotangco> i got to reduce it 50%
<mdke> k
<jsgotangco> later guys
<jsgotangco> good night
<LaserJock> mdke: around?
<mdke> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> mdke: you couldn't see some of the pics?
<mdke> LaserJock: I saw the first two, not the other 3. It's strange that recently in epiphany I haven't been able to download some files
<LaserJock> mdke: hmm, I don't know why you couldn't see them
<LaserJock> they show up fine for me
<mdke> a bug my side, I guess.
<mdke> in epiphany
<LaserJock> no firefox? :-)
<LaserJock> mdke: one thing that was interesting to me was how variable lists are displayed
<mdke> lemme fire up firefox. what was the url?
<LaserJock> http://chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/lulu/
<mdke> LaserJock: you don't like variable lists, or you do?
<LaserJock> mdke: I don't like the way it is done on the pdf, I like the html though
<mdke> LaserJock: ok, I'm sure we can tweak that
<LaserJock> I don't know how much other people use them
<LaserJock> I use them only 1 or 2 times
<LaserJock> mdke: really? is that mgalvin ?
<mdke> Surak: ping mgalvin about it. Although I think that it's intentional
<Burgwork> LaserJock, congrats on your edubuntu council election
<mdke> LaserJock: wow, dude.
* mgalvin pokes his head in
<LaserJock> Burgwork: where did you see that?
<mgalvin> LaserJock: indeed, congrats!!!
<Surak> mdke: intentional? as far as i recall, beta 1 has the bad habit of wiping partitions
<LaserJock> mgalvin: thanks, I hope I can be of service to Edubuntu
<Burgwork> LaserJock, ubuntu-annouce, I think
<Surak> mgalvin, the http://www.ubuntu.com/testing page says nothing about dapper beta 2. Shouldn't it be there?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yikes, first time I've ever made u-a :-)
<mdke> it wasn't on -announce, I don't think
<mdke> I didn't see anything about it
<mdke> good news LaserJock 
<mgalvin> Surak: beta 2 was released rather quickly after beta 1... i did not have a chance to make a new page for it... 
<mdke> i didn't even know you worked on edubuntu 
<mgalvin> Surak: u.c/testing just list link to the releases there are tours for
<mdke> mgalvin: i would think one page is good enough to apply to both beta releases
<mgalvin> although, i guess we could add a link and just point it at beta1 (with a note of course)
<mgalvin> mkde: me too
<LaserJock> mdke: I don't much, but I'm working on it ;-) they wanted somebody with university experience that was already an Ubuntu member
<mdke> who else is on the council? highvoltage, presumably?
* highvoltage is
<Burgwork>  Oliver Garwert - ogra  * Jane Weideman - JaneW * Jerome Jotangco - jsgotangco  * Jonathan Cater - highvoltage  Jordan Mantha - LaserJock
<LaserJock> jsgotangco
<highvoltage> http://www.edubuntu.org/news/3
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> hehe, highvoltage you are everywhere
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> and i've got irssi set up with nice highlighting too :)
<crimsun> ah, congrats, you guys. :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hmm, where do you put that, I was trying to figure that out the other day
<highvoltage> /hilight edubuntu highvoltage whateveriwanttohighlight etc
<LaserJock> crimsun: thanks
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hmm, ok. that is certainly easy enough
<highvoltage> yep :)
<LaserJock> mdke: so lots of doc team showing on the Edubuntu Council ;-)
<highvoltage> you can modify it later too, in the irssi text file if you want, by editing ~/.irrsi/config
<highvoltage> edubuntu needs lots of docwork, so that's a good thing.
<Surak> mgalvin: a link to cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live (or daily) could be provided there, what do you think?
<mgalvin> Surak: good point... actually there was no tour for flight one and that is a link to the announcement... it would probably be best to do the same for beta 2 and flight 7 to be consistent
<pygi> oki, people, I would have simple question 
<pygi> what's the most desirable format for help/documentation thingy?
<mgalvin> Surak: the annoucements have the download links in them anyway
<mgalvin> pygi: it depends ;)
<mgalvin> there is the wiki
<mgalvin> or...
<mgalvin> all the docs in the repo are in docbook
<pygi> mgalvin: well, for the application help/documentation system
<mgalvin> docbook
<pygi> mgalvin: MonoDoc viewer seems very nice considering people can contribute, and upload contribution to server with a single click
<pygi> mgalvin: thoughts? 
<mgalvin> pygi: haven't used it... will install it and take a peek in a min
<pygi> mgalvin: oki, thanks
<mdke> pygi: I'm watching you >_<
<pygi> mdke: ok, I am removing it this sec
<LaserJock> pygi: some people are working on making GUI doc editing, jeffsch I think, is that right mdke?
<mdke> pygi: for gnome apps, docbook xml is the format used
<mgalvin> there are also some efforts among doc team members to make a similar tool
<Surak> An employee of mine just found that page and was complaining about old stuff. I directed him to the cdimage link.
<pygi> LaserJock: why don't we just SoC it?
<LaserJock> pygi: you have to have a mentor ;-)
<pygi> LaserJock: well, we'll find a mentor
<LaserJock> I think it would make a good SoC project though
<mdke> what's the project?
<pygi> agreed 
<pygi> mdke: something simmilar to MonoDoc
<mdke> what is that?
<crimsun> someone should just clone protg
<mdke> or rather, explain the project without comparing it to an existing one
<jeffsch> LaserJock: nope, not me. it's rob.
<pygi> mdke: hm, well, the documentation viewer/editor where people can actually contribute, and they can upload stuff to server with a single click
<LaserJock> jeffsch: oh yeah, for some reason I get you guys mixed some times
<pygi> that's really nice
<mdke> pygi: so a WYSIWYH editor for docbook xml?
<mdke> s/H/G
<pygi> basicly, yes.
<LaserJock> What You See Is What You Hope for? ;-)
<pygi> "F" is missing 
<Surak> mgalvin: thanks, it was just to point it out for the correct person. let me go back to bugs channel :-)
<pygi> omg, why it's still here
<mdke> pygi: it has a life of its own, told you so
<pygi> there :)
<highvoltage> goodnight docteam!
<mdke> nighty night
<pygi> LaserJock, mdke: ok, nice...will go with docbook for now
<pygi> also, someone please put idea for that project to wiki page?
<LaserJock> pygi: sounds like you are volunteering :-)
<mdke> i can think of two good potential mentors
<pygi> LaserJock: no, I am not :)
<mdke> neither on the ubuntu project though
<pygi> LaserJock: I am currently looking over SoC applications
<LaserJock> mdke: Gnome?
<mdke> yes, shaun or danilo from gnome
<LaserJock> are they sponsoring SoC projects?
<pygi> Gnome? yup
<LaserJock> that sure would be nice
<pygi> mdke: well, could you talk with them? :)
<mdke> pygi: sure, if the project materialises
<pygi> mdke: oki, then someone please add it to the wiki =P
<mdke> pygi: go ahead!
<pygi> no, not me =P
<mgalvin> jjesse_: i don't think i am going to create a flight 7 page... no time, not enought to cover... i will just link to the announcement
<mdke> pygi: you suggested it!
<pygi> mdke: yes, yes, put it in my face =P
<Burgwork> mgalvin, when is flight7?
<mgalvin> Burgwork: rumored to be today or tomorrow
<Burgwork> ah
<pygi> mdke: oki, I'll do it right away
<mdke> good man
* mgalvin pats pygi on the back
<pygi> mdke: oki, done
<pygi> mdke, mgalvin: I just saw gnome has SoC idea for creating new doc format???
<mgalvin> pygi: link?
<pygi> mgalvin: sec pls
<pygi> http://live.gnome.org/SummerOfCode2006/Ideas
<pygi> here somewhere :-/
<Burgwork> that would be project mallard, no?
<pygi> mallard? :) meaning of that word is? :P
<mgalvin> Topic-Oriented Help?
<mgalvin> library.gnome.org seems like a neat idea too
<mgalvin> is our h.u.c automatic?
<mgalvin> and d.u.c for that matter
<mgalvin> Burgwork: it seems to be mallard, there is a link to it
<pygi> yea, it's topic-oriented help
<rob> hi guys
<mgalvin> hi rob
<pygi> mgalvin: I just saw it's mallard ;P
<pygi> whatever that would be :)
<mgalvin> its been being talked about for a while iirc
<rob> hmm MonoDoc looks like its mainly meant for documenting applications done in Mono
<rob> http://people.mosaix.net/chris/tutorials/monodoc/monodoc-tutorial.html
<pygi> rob: yup, that's true 
<pygi> but it's nice
<rob> I'm going to go for a Sarma style editor (I'll probably try to reuse as much as possible)
<Burgwork> rob, have you seen docudo?
<pygi> rob: hm, you'll apply for SoC for that project?
<rob> Burgwork, yes, but it doesn't support Docbook at all
<rob> pygi, I wasn't planning on (didn't cross my mind), but maybe I could?
<Burgwork> no, but it is saner, afaics, to add docbook to an existing editor than write a new one
<pygi> rob: well, sure :) But I still suggest you follow the MonoDoc
<pygi> it's quite nice actually
<pygi> make a clone of it for docbook :)
<rob> docudo uses a third party editor
<rob> I'd have to replace that anyway, the rest of the framework isn't all that great (plus Docudo is part of a bigger non-documentation project anyway)
<rob> pygi, MonoDoc does look good from the few screenshots I just saw
<pygi> rob: and works nice :)
<rob> I'll have to check it out later :)
<pygi> rob: oki, nice :)
<rob> ok, I'm off to work, bye!
<Burgwork> rob, cya
<pygi> bye rob
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-09
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, hi... what was the issue of including Portuguese startpage in firefox? apparently when I point to /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-pt.html everything appears great.
<WaterSevenUb> although, when I start firefox I am pointed to index-pt_BR.html.
<mdke> WaterSevenUb: is there a pt translation of firefox itself?
<mdke> (no)
<mdke> that's the problem.
<mdke> we can't make it appear unless firefox itself has a translation
<WaterSevenUb> ok:-) I thought it was related to the rendering of the text itself, not the URL.
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, you've mentioned the xpi, ... I know the upstream team will be releasing this month (probably) firefox translated. How late in the cycle do you think the translation can reach ubuntu and still be used?
<mdke> WaterSevenUb: no idea, you need to ask pitti, or diziet
<WaterSevenUb> ok, thanks.
<mdke> np
<WaterSevenUb> hhmm... the startpage doesn't have the LTS thing, probably not relevant enough to annoy translators again...
<mdke> oh bollocks
<WaterSevenUb> well... it can be added by hand in all of them:)
<mdke> yeah, I'll do it that way
<mdke> thanks for pointing it out
<mdke> hopefully the Chinese isn't too difficult
<WaterSevenUb> eh:)
<ompaul> mdke, have you got a few minutes?
<mdke> ompaul: a few
<ompaul> mind if I send you a presentation for a bit of sanity checking?
<mdke> ompaul: when are you giving it?
<ompaul> 11am Thursday 
<ompaul> its just a trend
<mdke> today thursday?
<ompaul> yes
<ompaul> it is 0:16
<mdke> argh, i need to go to bed, I haven't been sleeping much recently
<ompaul> go for it 
<ompaul> I just need to find someone who is awake :)
<mdke> sorry. But someone else in here will help, I bet
<ompaul> lets find a .au er
<ompaul> :)
<mdke> or an american: trappist, LaserJock, mgalvin 
<ompaul> yeap
<mdke> Burgwork, Madpilot (when he arrives)
* mgalvin waves
<ompaul> mgalvin, I have a presentation I have to give at 11am local time (its now 0:17) 
<mgalvin> ok, on?
<ompaul> so my question is care to review it, and if so can you msg me an address to send it somewhere
<ompaul> ubuntu
<mgalvin> sure
<mgalvin> matt.t.galvin@gmail.com
<ompaul> thanks
<mgalvin> np
<ompaul> mdke, go to bed :-)
<mdke> nighty nighty
<ompaul> thanks 
<mgalvin> night mdke
<ompaul> mgalvin, I am going back to work on it
<ompaul> its not finished but you can get a good idea of what I want to do from it, I have about 25 minutes to fill
<mgalvin> ok, i will give it a read
<ompaul> thanks
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, one positive effect of the rising .ca dollar - computer stuff is going to get even cheaper for us ;)
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: yep
<kgoetz> hi all. is there somewhere i can drop a docbook xml file that it will automatically be made part of the ubuntu help system? or is this a find and rtfm
<jenda> I'm afraid FARTFM...
<Madpilot> kgoetz, you want to add something to the ubuntu-docs package?
<kgoetz> Madpilot: no, i want to leave a comunity group with help files, but i would rather something better then text.
<kgoetz> Madpilot: i'm not realy up for ubuntu docteam work.... your all a bit fast for me
<Madpilot> kgoetz, ask on the docteam mailing list - or hang out and see if Matt East can help you here (mdke) - he does a lot of our building/packaging/etc
<kgoetz> Madpilot: thanks for the sugestion.
<kgoetz> jenda: i worked out the html generating bit. it's actualy realy easy if all you want is black and white html
<kgoetz> thanks for your help on it ;)
<Madpilot> I just hack at docbook and write semi-coherent help, I leave the hard stuff to others ;)
<jenda> hehe - can I have a look, kgoetz?
<kgoetz> xsltproc --nonet /usr/share/xml/docbook/stylesheet/nwalsh/htmlhelp/htmlhelp.xsl $package (no internet, and use the default provided stylesheet, nothing fancy)
* kgoetz needs to get fancy now
<mdke> morning
<rob> hi mdke 
<jsgotangco_> ciao
<jbaloul> hello
<jbaloul> i wrote a howto about installtion on ubuntu...started out as just notes but more and more people have been contacting me regarding this....i think maybe it can be a good contrabution to the wiki on vmware at ubuntu
<jbaloul> http://howtoforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5
<jbaloul> anyone any ideas?
<Burgwork> jbaloul, can you move it to the ubuntu wiki?
<jbaloul> how?
<Burgwork> jbaloul, find the vmware page and integrate your infromation
<highvoltage> mv http://howtoforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5 http://wiki.ubuntu.org/VMWareServerBetaInstallation ?
<highvoltage> :)
<jbaloul> :)
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<mdke> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> mdke: did firefox work better on those pngs
<mdke> LaserJock: yeah :)
<LaserJock> ok, good
<mdke> LaserJock: I haven't had time to look at the variable list thing yet or the admon icons
<LaserJock> np, are we going to insert links to lulu from the docs?
<mdke> LaserJock: yes, good point. We need to draft an appropriate string
<mdke> Burgwork: wiki move is starting to move along. We have a server, and spiv is going to take a look at doing the code
<Burgwork> mdke, sweet!
<mdke> :)
<aleph0> hello.
<aleph0>  in http://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-amd64/current/doc/manual/en/apcs04.html it says "tar -xf" when it should say "ar -xf"
<aleph0> actually there is more wrong in that file.
<aleph0> compare: http://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/apcs03.html
<Burgwork> aleph0, that is very very old stuff
<Burgwork> aleph0, file a bug please
<aleph0> are there newer versions?
<LaserJock> mdke: have we decided what the URL of the new wiki will be?
<mdke> LaserJock: we were thinking http://help.ubuntu.com/community
<LaserJock> mdke: is that going to be inplace for Dapper? Should we link to it in the docs?
<mdke> LaserJock: hopefully yes, and probably no. I think it's too late for the latter.
<mdke> but we may sort out a nifty redirect system anyhow
<LaserJock> k, just wondering
<mdke> LaserJock: any ideas for what to say about lulu? How about "You can buy a printed copy of this guide at <X>"
<mdke> maybe something about it being non-profit
<mdke> not sure
<LaserJock> yeah, "You can buy a printed copy of this guide <x> for a minimal charge as You will only pay for the price of printing and shipping."
<mdke> bit long. Strip out "for a minimal charge" and replace it with a full stop, or brackets?
<LaserJock> yeah, it was a little awkward
<mdke> "You can buy a printed copy of the guide at <x>. You will only pay for the price of printing and shipping/postage"
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> "printed copy" doesn't get across the fact that it is bound
<mdke> "You can buy this guide in book form at <x>. You will only pay for the price of printing and postage"?
<mdke> s/in book form/as a book
* mdke shrugs
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-10
<LaserJock> book form seems nice to me
<mdke> ok, I'll mail the list
<mdke> man I need to proof read my emails
<LaserJock> hehe, that's why I dislike emails and bug reports but love the wiki ;-)
<mdke> sleep. night all
<LaserJock> good night mdke 
<Madpilot> hi all
<robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
<robotgeek> sorry, i lost track of the script we were working on
<Madpilot> np
<robotgeek> i made it slightly better,still not very useful
<Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
<Madpilot> robotgeek, I was going to write a note to the mailing list (and cc it to the art list) about the covers & the script we were planning
<robotgeek> Next was getting qtruby working using Ruby extconf.rb script for the extension. That worked as long as I did it from the mingw shell, and not from the others. I found that to build Qt and QtRuby I had to use all three shells at different times. So after a bit of handing hacking the generated Makefile, I found the qtruby code compiled without much problems and only a couple of minor things needing fixing such as a call to vasprintf that mingw
<robotgeek> There are still some issues to be sorted out with the port, such as a garbage collection bug which causes half the Qt examples to crash unless they're run with 'GC.disable', but apart from that the Windows version works great.
<robotgeek> shit. sorry
<robotgeek> http://rafb.net/paste/results/XUsBb578.html 
<Madpilot> wrong paste?
<robotgeek> the url is correct one
<Madpilot> thought so
<robotgeek> i had no idea what was in the clipboard, freaking middle button :P
<Madpilot> I need to send a note to the Inkscape list asking about the inkscape command line stuff - "man inkscape" is less than helpful (surprise, surprise...) ;)
<robotgeek> oh, if we could do that, it would be nice. i did get the strings this time, works with Kubuntu too, 
<robotgeek> will not work if something changes more "drastically"
<Madpilot> Inkscape can take an svg and output a PNG from cli - but I can't figure out the blasted syntax...
<robotgeek> lemme see
<robotgeek> -e, --export-png=FILENAME
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: man inkscape may have been written by the debian packager
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, could have been - it seems complete, but it's one of those "you have to know this stuff already" man pages...
<Madpilot> robotgeek, found that, but "inkscape --export-png=foo.svg" doesn't seem to produce foo.png - I'm missing something...
<robotgeek> Madpilot: i think you might need inkscape -e=foo.png foo.svg?
<Madpilot> could be -the man page isn't clear
<robotgeek> seems to have worked for me
<Madpilot> cool - let me see
<Madpilot> let me try it here, rather :P
<rob> h guys
<rob> err hi
<Madpilot> hi rob 
<rob> there are a couple of documentation ideas on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006 worth looking at
<rob> I've added mine to the list also
<rob> hi Madpilot 
<mdke> morning
<rob> hi mdke 
<GrahamW> evening
<rob> have you seen that link?
<mdke> no, I just woke uip
<rob> oh :)
<Laser_away> mdke: hmm, bzr submit by mail would be sort of interesting for use perhaps
<mdke> Laser_away: what does it do?
<Laser_away> mdke: We'd like to submit changesets and/or merge requests by gpg-signed mail. This mainly requires calculating which revisions need to be sent, and packing them up into an appropriate form for transmission, including a gpg signature for their testament.
<mdke> ok
<Laser_away> sorry going to bed. I'll be back in the morning :-)
<mdke> night
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<jenda> dja vu
<jsgotangco> mmm??
<jsgotangco> hi :)
<mdke> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> mdke: heh, I'm trying to remember what I pinged you for
<mdke> just to say hi?
<LaserJock> mdke: oh yes, I was going to go through my print copy and fix as much as I can
<LaserJock> and I was still a little uncertain of what does and doesn't get translated
<LaserJock> I'd like to avoid messing up translators as much as possible
<mdke> LaserJock: yeah, try to avoid changing too many strings, unless there are really bad things there.
<mdke> bear in mind that long paragraphs are time consuming to translate, whereas short strings aren't
<LaserJock> but if they aren't translated then there shouldn't be any harm, right? like urls
<mdke> if you change a url, you change the whole paragraph that it is in.
<mdke> so that has to be retranslated
<LaserJock> hmm, that stinks. ok, I'll try to keep that in mind
<LaserJock> I just have to remember to think of things in paragraph chunks rather than sentence chunks
<mdke> that's it.
<Burgwork> LaserJock, you around?
<LaserJock> yes
<Burgwork> LaserJock, just looking at the EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy thing
<Burgwork> very cool doc, but I noticed two big issues
<Burgwork> first, organization. Tell me what it does, and then what is looks liek
<Burgwork> second, I would organize the apps by what they do, rather than what they are
<Burgwork> ie, put kstars under Stellarium, not kstars
<LaserJock> working on both those issues right now
<Burgwork> remember, teachers think in terms of lesson plans and specific topics
<Burgwork> also, did you see the edits I made?
<LaserJock> yeah, didn't look at them in great detail
<Burgwork> ok
<Burgwork> I cleaned up the first two sections
<LaserJock> does something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy/LaserJock look better?
<Burgwork> just a sec
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> I would also avoid talking about duplicative things, like mplayer
<Burgwork> concentrate on the default install
<LaserJock> yes, I just told them to scratch mplayer
<Burgwork> mplayer is something old linux users love, but new ones hate
<LaserJock> what about the question headings?
<Burgwork> question headings?
<LaserJock> on EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<LaserJock> there are several sections that have a question as the heading
<LaserJock> "What applications are installed?" and "Is it difficult to learn?" for instance
<Burgwork> LaserJock, I would have a small section on common questions and have all the questions there
<Burgwork> nothing duplicative
<Burgwork> also, cut down the lenght
<Burgwork> I assume the target audience is a brochure for teachers/etc. to look at
<LaserJock> so maybe put a Q&A section that answers the short little questions rather than have a section for each one?
<LaserJock> I think that assumption is correct
<highvoltage> LaserJock: initially, all of them were questions, so i started converting some of them away from it (i didn't like the questions), i intend to move it all away from the questions
<LaserJock> highvoltage: good
<highvoltage> Internal Server Error
<highvoltage> *sigh* i think i break the wiki when i try to edit stuff
<highvoltage> ah, there it's fine again
<mdke> jsgotangco: MANILA (Reuters) - A Philippine judge who claimed he could see into the future and admitted consulting imaginary mystic dwarfs has asked for his job back after being fired by the country's Supreme Court.
<mdke> awesome.
<Burgwork> mdke, people are wierd the world over
<Burgwork> mdke, a former PM of Canada admitted to talking to his dead mother through his dog
<mdke> these things do happen.
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I wonder if there would be translational issues ;-)
<Burgwork> "Privately, he was highly eccentric with his preference for consulting spirits, including those of Leonardo da Vinci, Louis Pasteur, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, his dead mother and his dog, Pat."
<Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lyon_Mackenzie_King#Personal_life
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-11
<mdke> it's nice to keep good company
<Burgwork> lol
<Burgwork> well, the first premier of BC was called Amor de Cosmos
<mdke> Canada sounds like a great place
<LaserJock> mdke: it full of fruits and the rejects from America. Sort of like Australia and the UK ;-)
<mdke> are they good at sport?
<LaserJock> only cold ones
<Burgwork> LaserJock, we prefer the term "Liberal"
<mdke> ice hockey isn't a sport
<mdke> it's just fighting
<Burgwork> it is not a dirty word here
<LaserJock> Burgwork: hehe. better watch out, I'm from solidly Red states :-)
<LaserJock> mdke: and fighting isn't a sport?
<mdke> nah
<LaserJock> well, hockey does seem like just a reason to skate around and knock each others teeth out
<Burgwork> LaserJock, funny, red is the colour of the Liberal party here. Blue is the colour of the Conservatives
* mdke shudders at the liberals
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yes, very weird. Red is also used a lot for communist countries. I don't know why we got stuck with red
<Burgwork> mdke, neither the liberals or the conservatives are very friendly to the needs of open content and open source
<mdke> Burgwork: you need to become a politician
<Burgwork> mdke, you are not the only person to tell me that
<mdke> i bet
<Burgwork> what makes you think I would be a good politician?
<mdke> did I say that?
<mdke> >_>
<mdke> <_<
<LaserJock> Most of the time that isn't exactly a compliment around here :-)
<LaserJock> I'm fascinated by the ability of politicians to do nothing other than keep their position and power
<LaserJock> it's like actually doing something or standing for something automatically means they lose
<mdke> ours just bugger stuff up and then switch jobs
<francis> hello
<francis> any1 ther?
<mdke> damn, 21 seconds
<LaserJock> dang it
<mdke> must have been really important
<LaserJock> I guess, that is like the second time that has happened to me today
* mdke yawns
<LaserJock> well, hopefully tomorrow there will be a nice Edubuntu doc for people to look at
<mdke> that was a busy yawn
* mdke looks industrious
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> well, I'm heading home for dinner. I'm about dead
<mdke> LaserJock: cya later.
<LaserJock> cya, have a good night
<crimsun> 'night lj
<mdke> wb
<jsgotangco> mdke: yeah there are a ton of loonies in government/congress/judiciary here
<noctrine> Hello?
<noctrine> Is there anyway to get past the partition phase on the breezy badger install CDs, or atleast is there anything that would prevent the guided partition thingie from working?
<noctrine> Anyone?
<rob> noctrine, try #ubuntu
<noctrine> ooo
<Burgundavia> wow, much ado about nothing in the AU community
<jsgotangco> heh yeah
<jsgotangco> you just need an outfit like zdnet to make things big
<Burgundavia> actually, ubuntu.ca is currently having domain issues
<Burgundavia> we still have it, it is just being redirected
<jsgotangco> why?
<Burgundavia> no idea, current owner is MIA
<Burgundavia> we were hosting our own stuff, but not anymore] 
<jsgotangco> ugghhh
<jsgotangco> americalaptops
<robotgeek> howd yall
<Burgundavia> salut robotgeek
<robotgeek> salut Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: have you read about that school in Montreal punishing an asian kid for not using a knife (instead use a spoon) during meals?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: nope
<jsgotangco> heh probably regional news
<Burgundavia> quebec is usually pretty moderate about these things, I am surprised
<jsgotangco> http://news.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?index=1&story_id=74812
<jsgotangco> although it is getting too hyped in local news lately
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, that Montreal thing jsgotangco mentioned is on cbc's website
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: ah, haven't been there is a few hours
<Madpilot> Use the feed, Burg!
<Madpilot> ;)
<Burgundavia> hmm, can't due to reinstalling so much
<Madpilot> somebody must make a half-decent personal online RSS aggregator?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: in other news, citizen harper cut funding to energy saving programs
<Madpilot> bleh
<Madpilot> there was a good cartoon in today's TC: "Harper's buget's response to global warming" - a bottle of sunblock w/ a "GST now only 6%" sticker on it...
<Burgundavia> heh
<Madpilot> budget, even...
<robitaille> Madpilot:  I use Google Reader.  It took me a little bit to get used to, but I use all the time now
<mdke> ~[6~[6~morning
<mdke> or indeed, morning
<dsas> good morning.
<klepas> moin
<klepas> mdke: your latest draft for the cover looks great
<mdke> klepas: I didn't do anything...
<mdke> which do you mean?
<klepas> oh, wait.
<klepas> mixup of names
<klepas> ;)
<mdke> it's Madpilot you mean, I think
<klepas> that must have been Mikkel Erlandsen
<klepas> ;)
<mdke> oh, right
<mdke> I liked yours more, iirc
<mdke> klepas: would you work together with Madpilot to come up with a definitive version? We'll accept whatever he produces
<Burgundavia> hmm, http://www.beginningubuntu.com/software_8.html
<mdke> my book still didn't arrive
<mdke> :-(
<mdke> Burgundavia: I bet you love the "Ubuntu Linux" in the title ;)
<Burgundavia> mdke: totally dig it man :)
<mdke> haven't you written to them?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> not much I can realistically do about it
<Burgundavia> I would rather talk to reporters and news places
* mdke nods
<mdke> you could insist they reprint everything, tho
<mdke> oh well, if my copy ever arrives I'll include the erroneous name in my review :D
<klepas> mdke: sure
<klepas> Madpilot is Mikkel?
<Burgundavia> klepas: no, Madpilot is Brian Burger
<klepas> oh.. :)
<mdke> robotgeek: Laser_away: ping?
<mdke> robotgeek: Laser_away: I've added a string about lulu to UDG and SG immediately after the paragraph in the introductions where it talks about getting the html version on the website, but not to PG or KDG, because in those I couldn't find anything in the introduction about that. Would you add it in whichever place you think is appropriate? Thanks
<jsgotangco> mdke: ping?
<mdke> jsgotangco: hi
<jsgotangco> Why does About Ubuntu have 2 copyrights?
<mdke> whoosh
<mdke> well spotted
<mdke> no idea how that happened
<jsgotangco> yeah Dean Sas has its own copyright
<mdke> the version in the repo is ok.
<mdke> how odd
<jsgotangco> this is a fresh flight 7
<mdke> and opening the file with yelp normally is also ok.
<mdke> jsgotangco: are you on en_GB?
<mdke> dsas appears to have claimed copyright for himself in the en_GB version
<mdke> ;)
* dsas doesn't know how that has happened.
<mdke> did you translate about-ubuntu to en_GB?
<dsas> Yeah, sure did.
<mdke> hmm
<jsgotangco> mdke: yeah
<jsgotangco> i guess that's the reason
<mdke> it must have taken it from translator-credits
<jsgotangco> interesting behavior
<jsgotangco> yeah i'm on en_GB
<mdke> it hasn't done it for italian though
<dsas> Surely it should go to ubuntu-l10n-en-gb if anyone.
<jsgotangco> that explains it, didn't expect an en_GB translation :D
<mdke> ah, it's done it for korean
<mdke> dsas: you have to put that in translator-credits then. You put your name/email address in
<jsgotangco> dsas: no offense, meant, it was just odd behavior on how it rendered after translation
<jsgotangco> mdke: perhaps this is normal behavior
<mdke> yeah, it's not a problem. But I always think it's better to have translator-credits as the translator team, rather than an individual
<jsgotangco> that's true, its a rosetta issue
<jsgotangco> or rather the pot?
<dsas> I'll put it over to the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb team, I think that's instep with what others have done, and looks tidier than a long list of people.
<jsgotangco> i think it only defaults to the first person who added it
<mdke> jsgotangco: it's up to the translator to decide what to do.
<mdke> maybe a default to the team would be nice
<dsas> I imagine things getting messy unless people do, do that. I wonder how it handles upstream translations.
<jsgotangco> ciao
<dsas> Hmm, it appears that the exploit I discovered when translating about-ubuntu which let you translate without being in a team has been fixed.
<dsas> So I'll have get membership of the group to change it.
<klepas> in CSS, margin: 0 0 0 5px; implies a 5px marginal indent from which side?
<klepas> going inwards north, east, south or west...?
<dsas> I think it's top, bottom, left, right.
<klepas> ah, good
<klepas> thanks
* klepas grumbles... why could they not follow the compass in a clockwise direction
<dsas> It makes doing margin: 0 0 for giving top+bottom 0 and left+right 0, slightly more sense I think.
<klepas> what exactly is the difference between padding and margins...?
<dsas> margins are outside the imaginary box and padding is inside it.
<dsas> http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/default.asp
<dsas> padding will make the boxes background grow outside 
<klepas> cheers
<dsas> whoops, didn't mean to press enter... Padding makes the boxes background (or whatever) grow bigger/smaller, whilst a margin will push it away from other boxes without carrying on it's effect.
<dsas> if that makes sense :/
<klepas> yea, it does
<klepas> mhh
<klepas> given something like blockquote, code, h1 and so forth
<klepas> what is 'select'?
<dsas> Uhm I'm not sure I know what you mean. I can't think of anything.
<dsas> Do you mean selector perhaps?
<klepas> that might be it
<klepas> i'm trying to figure out how i can change the textarea input box's border colour upon selection
<dsas> Ohhh, that kind of select.
<dsas> It'd be a pseudo class, but I'm not sure there is a pseudo class called attribute.
<dsas> sorry, pseudo class called select
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> i ought to read some tutorial pages
<klepas> :)
<klepas> first comes sleep though
<klepas> night folks
<dsas> klepas: No worries, good night.
<dsas> klepas: Actually I think you'd want the focus pseudo class to do that....
<mdke> hey mgalvin 
<mgalvin> hi mdke
<mgalvin> hows it going?
<mdke> mgalvin: good thanks. how are the releasenotes going?
<mgalvin> mdke: didn't really get time to work on them much yet, i am working on the flight 7 tour now...
<mgalvin> funny you should ask b/c i was going to try and make some time to work on the release notes this evening
<mgalvin> mdke: the string freeze doesn't really apply to the release notes correct?
<mgalvin> i was holding off on them a bit since things change till almost the last minute sometimes
<mdke> mgalvin: I don't know what we should do about them. If we hold off too long, they won't get translated at all.
<mgalvin> true
<mgalvin> well, i will get it done with a good amount of time for translators
<mdke> that would be fine. Couple of weeks should do the trick
<mgalvin> k cool, i will be sure to make some time to work on them today and should be able to have it all finished before the end of the week
<mdke> lovely. :)
<robotgeek> mdke: okay, lemme see
<pygi> Hello people
<robotgeek> hey
<pygi> Finally, we've got the application for Docbook GUI viewer/editor simmilar to MonoDoc
<robotgeek> where, what?
<robotgeek> i want to see if pida is better than before
<pygi> well, the SoC thingy :)
<robotgeek> hmm, i would wait till it comes out :)
<pygi> :P
<pygi> thats why I wanted feedback from doc team
<pygi> to see how should I respond to application
<robotgeek> pygi: oh, you are writing it?
<pygi> no, I got the application
* pygi is the mentor
* robotgeek is very slow today 
<robotgeek> pygi: i don't really know much about mondoc, lemme read up
<robotgeek> hmm, i will now need to install mono-tools :)
<pygi> =P
<robotgeek> can't someone modify mono-tools to just do docbook/xml stuff
<pygi> indee
<pygi> indeed
<robotgeek> well, or even the documentation helper app in gnome-tools, not sure what it's called (i use qt now)
<mdke> robotgeek: thanks
<mdke> pygi: maybe you can talk to danilo from gnome-doc-utils, I *think* that he's worked on something similar before.
<pygi> his nick/server?
<robotgeek> maybe they could even hack on yelp (nudge)
<mdke> he's not on irc much
<mdke> danilo@gnome.org 
<pygi> thanks
<pygi> have to be fast tho :-/
<mdke> also try pinging the yelp guys, they have a lot of experience with docbook because yelp essentially does docbook->html conversion on the fly with some quite fast xsl stylesheets
<pygi> ef of append of applications tommorow :-/
<mdke> #docs on irc.gnome.org
<mdke> right, but these sort of projects need some careful thinking before you start em.
<pygi> mdke: agreed
<Madpilot> hey all - anyone seen Burgundavia today?
<robotgeek> nope
<mdke> Madpilot: i think he may have been up late last night
<mdke> last spoke in here about 10 hours ago?
<mdke> dunno what time that was
<Madpilot> 10hrs ago would have been 0350 local
* mdke nods
<Madpilot> that would explain why he's not over here helping me move (and I still don't have his new phone number...) :P
<mdke> moving house?
<Madpilot> he's carefully avoided giving me his new number
<Madpilot> yes
<mdke> cool
<mdke> good luck :)
<Madpilot> thanks ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-12
<mdke> ooooooooh
* mdke finally gets fop 0.92 to work
<onkarshinde> I have a concern about content of DapperFlight7 page on wiki
<onkarshinde> anybody in here?
<rob> yes
<robitaille> yes
<robitaille> what
<robitaille> what's your concern?
<onkarshinde> the text 'Previous Flight (Alpha Release) Tours' gives impression that Flight 7 is alpha release. Whereas there are already two beta releases done.
<robitaille> that's a good point.  I'm not sure why this release wasn't called Beta 3...
<onkarshinde> I guess Flight 7 is not officially announced yet. May be at the time of announcement someone should take care of removing confusing stuff.
<robitaille> Matt Galvin (mgalvin) is the person who writes these announcements
<onkarshinde> I had thought of putting comment on the page. But then I saw that I should make suggestions here.
* mgalvin wakes up
<mgalvin> i am still working on it
<mgalvin> its just a draft and is just a copy of the previous tour
<rob> is Ubuntu chaning from OOo to Abiword/Gnome Office?
<mgalvin> no
<mgalvin> ooo will be used since it is a full well known office suite
<robitaille> rob:  not that I know.  Is there a rumour to that effect?
<rob> robitaille, no just reading that wiki page
<rob> xubuntu has abiword, much faster
<mgalvin> i only mention it there b/c it is new and available and is a possible alternative
* mgalvin likes abiword better b/c of speed too :)
<mgalvin> onkarshinde: please feel free to make suggestion or improvements
<rob> actually, I replaced my Archlinux install using bleeding edge XFCE4 with xubuntu today
<onkarshinde> IMHO, abiword shouldn't go there. Fspot is okay since it is quite good from what I heard and there is no better alternative to it.
<mgalvin> i am ok with taking it off... i only mentioned it b/c is new since the last release...
<mgalvin> these tours cover the incremental improvements between the releases
<rob> I wish there was a decent Rufus package
<mgalvin> there is not a lot to cover per say in this tour so i was playing with the idea of mentioning additional new stuff like abiword and the others
<onkarshinde> mgalvin: you are right about incremental improvements. Just one question, will abiword, fspot and banshee be installed by default?
<rob> so much lighter then that other Java bittorrent client (mmm python goodness)
<mgalvin> onkarshinde: no, they are not installed by default
<mgalvin> onkarshinde: its 2am here so i will not be working on the page tonight, please feel free to make any improvements if you would like to
<onkarshinde> Looks like, abiword has moved to main from universe in dapper. Where as banshee, f-spot are still in universe.
<mgalvin> abiword is in main b/c it is a "standard" part of GNOME
<mgalvin> Ubuntu just doesn't install it by default b/c we use ooo
<onkarshinde> Ok. I am on dialup in my hometown and I don't want to put much of my time now. I will do it when I go to my worktown tomorrow (when I am on broadband).
<onkarshinde> mgalvin: Take good sleep. Good night.
<mgalvin> onkarshinde: sounds good, thanks, good night :)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> anyone around?
<ivoks> there's a bug in documentation; wrong informations
<ivoks> if file has a write flag, it doesn't mean it can be deleted
<ivoks> just changed
<dsas> ivoks: Which piece of documentation was this in?
<ivoks> desktopguide
<ivoks> line 138.
<ivoks> (i'm translating it)
<dsas> ok found it, it's the directory that needs the write bit, isn't it?
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> other things are ok
<ivoks> just remove "or deleted"
<ivoks> file can be edited (period) :)
<dsas> Ok, I'll mail the others and see if they want to break string freeze. Thanks for pointing out the problem.
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> btw... i really like desktopguide
<ivoks> it's nice to see we are trying to teach users some basics
<ivoks> like, what's which dir for, permissons...
<ivoks> one more thing...
<ivoks> Most things in Linux can be done using the command line, although there are graphical tools for most programs, sometimes they are just not enough.
<ivoks> isn't this missleading?
<dsas> How so?
<ivoks> on first look, it looks like command line isn't enough.
<ivoks> or is it just me? :)
<ivoks> i'll split that in two sentences in my lang...
<dsas> Uhm, it reads ok for me, saying graphical problems aren't enough. 
<dsas> s/problems/programs
<ivoks> yeah... it's just me
<dsas> ok, thanks for your comments ivoks, hopefully next release we'll get more people to proof check before we release to translation teams.
<dsas> out of interest which language are you translating to?
<ivoks> croatian
<ivoks> we are having huge two week marathon :)
<dsas> Good luck, did you read that any 100% translated documents will be made available to buy in hard copy?
<ivoks> yes
<dsas> though not sure what the shipping cost to croatia would be :)
<ivoks> well, i don't think it will be that much
<ivoks> we are allready ordering books from all over the world
<ivoks> :)
<dsas> ahh cool.
<ivoks> i found another one, if interested :)
<dsas> ivoks: sure.
<ivoks> You can also use wildcards to match one or more files, such as "*" (for all files) or "?" (to match one character).
<ivoks> this is all correct
<ivoks> but are we talking about files (then ? would be filenema with one char) or characters (where * would be numerus chars)?
<dsas> Ok, that sentance needs to be made clearer...
<ivoks> yup :)
<dsas> You can also use wildcards to match one or more files, such as "*" (for any number of characters) or "?" (to match one character).
<dsas> would that be much better?
<ivoks> that's how I translated it
* WaterSevenUb hugs mdke for providing http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/index.cc.html
<WaterSevenUb> and all the other contributors:)
<mdke> WaterSevenUb: you are welcome. Nice work on the translating :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> will the docteam be moving to docbook 5 or staying with 4.2?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser: we haven't discussed it. But since Ubuntu's version is 4.4, it's unlikely that we will move yet, i suppose
<Kamping_Kaiser> i just noticed its out, so i thought i would ask
<Kamping_Kaiser> mmm. docbook. love it or hate it, usualy in the space of 5 minutes
<arekmenner> Hello, chums.
<arekmenner> Hallo.
<dsas> Hallo
<arekmenner> Hey.
<mdke> hello
<highvoltage> what's the url for ubuntu enterprise edition (or more info linkin to it)?
<dsas> highvoltage: What do you mean by enterprise edition? 
<highvoltage> dsas: the edition that will be supported for 3 years on desktop, and 5 years on server
<dsas> highvoltage: Oh, that's the next release Ubuntu 6.06 LTS.
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> i found http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases, which more or less answers my question
<dsas> not exactly the easiest thing to find perhaps. 
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-13
<Kamping_Kaiser> can a tgroup have more then one tbody in it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> it looks like yes, but the code block is failing to validate :/ oh well. 
<dsas> trappist: ping
<motin> I can directly spot 3 spelling errors in the swedish translation for Dapper. Who should I contact?
<robotgeek> motin: i think there is a translators mailing list, and maybe you can translate/leave comments on the rosetta translation page?
<motin> aight
<motin> i am in rosetta now
<motin> whats the name for the shutdown/logout dialogue?
<motin> why isnt rosetta searchable?
<motin> i would like to search for the word that I know is wrong, and correct it..
<Burgundavia> motin: because that part of LP has not been written yet
<motin> Burgundavia: aight. I'll download a copy of each likely list and search myself then
<motin> naaah
<motin> takes too long time
<motin> when will that be written?
<motin> can I help?
<motin> who's writing it
<Burgundavia> motin: sadly, LP is closed source and thus only the canonical guys can work on it
<motin> Burgundavia: hmm too bad
<motin> then canonical will have less help then
<Burgundavia> motin: the person you need to convince is mark
<motin> only mark, that should be easy
<motin> wonder if he answers all email
<mdke> it's not easy, there are some quite good reasons for it being open source
<mdke> not being*
<mdke> in the long term, they want it open source, of course
<Burgundavia> motin: you would not be the only person who wants it to be open source
<mdke> and they are releasing as much of launchpad as possible
<Burgundavia> part of the issue right now is that it is one giant app
<Burgundavia> rosetta and malone, which are going to be opensourced, cannot easily be seperated from the rest
<motin> mdke: are they making any money on lp?
<mdke> motin: no
<motin> too bad
<motin> why have it closed then?
<mdke> think of it like this.
<mdke> the whole point of launchpad is to provide a way to manage all upstream projects and all distros in one interface, all of them sharing information
<mdke> if it was open source, before being mature enough that this function is really obvious, everyone would run their own copy, and the whole point of it would be lost
<mdke> well, not everyone
<motin> mdke: thats a great point
<mdke> but enough people to defeat the purpose
<motin> i love the way it is targeting _all_ projects
<mdke> yeah, it's a good point. the launchpad developers (and backers) care a lot about open source, they wouldn't work on a closed source project without good reasons.
<motin> now i understand
<motin> but then too bad i cant help them fix the searching
<mdke> motin: yeah, it's a really common feature request.
<mdke> btw, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-sv is who you need to contact about translations
<motin> yeah I know, but it seemed easier to go to rosetta directly, for both of us. but then this came along. couldnt find the right label
* mdke nods
<mdke> you can download the po and search it
* mdke hugs jjesse
<jjesse> i was disappointed when i found out about this
<mdke> me too, as you can see
<mdke> I've put a lot of work into getting translation set up for our docs
<jjesse> i've noticed the kubuntu docs are well on their for translation
<jjesse> i guess it seems like a slap in the face of those that did the desktop guide
<mdke> well, it diminishes the desktop guides a bit, but more importantly will cause confusion for the user about which they should pick. Id much rather makos chapters had been put forward, because those arent really duplicated.
<jjesse> plus it makes those that worked so hard on the guides feel like their work wasn't needed
<jjesse> i just wish this was talked about back when we were planing the docs that were going to be shipped
* mdke nods
<theCore> I feel a bit evil ... 
<theCore> I gained root access to my dad box by guessing his pass. I don't like doing that, but I guess that what happen when you control things too much.
<theCore> crap, I not in -offtopic?
<theCore> sorry guys, wrong channel 
<jjesse> mdke: does jane read the mailing list?
<mdke> jjesse: sometimes
<jjesse> mdke: i don't think my replies included her, should i forward them to her?
<theCore> does the repository has been branched for Edgy?
<jjesse> all of the docs that are shipping in dapper are in trunk if i recall correctly
<mdke> jjesse: mine werent either, I think she will read them sooner or later
<jjesse> mdke: ok, btw i'm getting wierd characters for contractions from you
<jjesse>  werent
<theCore> jjesse: the docs are frozen, so do I have to wait for sending patches?
<mdke> contractions?
<jjesse> didn't
<jjesse> wouldn't etc from you show up with wierd characters
<jsgotangco> hi
<jjesse> morning jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi jjesse how are you?
<jjesse> doing good, busy but good
<jsgotangco> great to hear
<jjesse> how are things going for u?
<jsgotangco> pretty hectic at work, catching up though
<jsgotangco> jjesse: sure thats why i said make it part of the CD but don't install it by default ;)
* mpt gives everyone a hug
<mpt> Books and help are very different things ...
<mpt> ... maybe this will help clarify the distinction between them
<Burgwork> mpt, yes, but when you ship it as part of help, it becomes part of help
<mpt> Burgwork, so, Dapper+1 should perhaps split it into help-sized pieces and put them in the appropriate places
<Burgwork> mpt, it will
<Burgwork> mpt, the other issue is that the book also needs to stay in a book-like form so it can be published again, if needed
<jjesse> but the issue that mdke and i have is that by providing the book on cd you are duplicating the dekstopguides
<Burgwork> jjesse, I totally agree
<jjesse> especially if we want to include screenshots in edgy
<jjesse> which i think we should
<Burgwork> my idea was to merge the book and the various guides, and have some great content for printing for edgy
<mpt> Burgwork, (1) have a coherent help system in Ubuntu, (2) use the book's contents in Ubuntu help, (3) keep the book a self-contained entity. Pick two.
<jjesse> i choose 1 and 3
<jjesse> there is a different audience aimed for in the book then in the help provided by the distro
<mpt> Or pick all three, but only by diffing successive editions of the book and applying equivalent changes (if applicable) to the help (lots of work)
<jjesse> the people that will read the book will probablly not read the help text provided and vice versa in my opnion
<mpt> Not in the same hour, at least
<mpt> Burgwork, how much technical review, copyediting etc has there been of the book?
<Burgwork> mpt, a fair amount, by a fairly large number of community members (seveas, whiprush, etc.)
<mpt> cool
<jjesse> matthew east read them all as well
<jjesse> jonathan riddell read my section on kubuntu
<mpt> Is it available anywhere right now?
<jjesse> mpt: besides from the publisher or jono not that i'm aware of
<Burgwork> mpt, not currently
<mpt> ok
<Burgwork> mpt, it is about to press
<Burgwork> to go to press, even
* mpt relishes the irony that he is teaching himself CVS just as the docteam is considering switching to bzr
<LaserJock> mpt: I wouldn't hold your breath, svn is pretty good for what we do
<Burgwork> mpt, s/cvs/svn/
<mpt> I'm not learning CVS for Ubuntu, but for Gnome :-)
<mpt> (though they're switching to SVN sometime in the next decade, too)
<LaserJock> I didn't even bother with CVS, everything I do is atleast svn if not bzr
* mpt really goes to sleep now
<mdke> 17:49:39 < Burgwork> my idea was to merge the book and the various guides, and have some great content for printing for edgy
<mdke> ^^ ideal
<LaserJock> are more editions of the book planed, like for each release?
<Burgwork> LaserJock, yes
<Burgwork> LaserJock, depending on sales, etc.
<poningru> also who owns the book?
<LaserJock> I'm having a bit of a problem understanding how the relationship between the book and the doc would work
<LaserJock> how do we avoid the duplication of work and possible inconsistencies
<jjesse> wiki?
<jjesse> svn?
<theCore> LaserJock: I been working on a Cover for the PG
<LaserJock> jjesse: but so far the doc team as a whole hasn't seen the book
<jjesse> LaserJock: understand, but i think the book and the docs have a different target
<jjesse> i think the book will be great for more corporate like users
<LaserJock> jjesse: of course, the doc team wouldn't know ...
<jjesse> give them a warm fuzzy that they can go pick up a book at Barnes and Noble and read about this operating system
<LaserJock> my issue, I think, is mostly that the doc team doesn't really know (and perhaps can't know) what is going on with the book
<LaserJock> so we can only merge or avoid inconsistencies after the fact
<jjesse> LaserJock: to be honest it seems half the time i don't know what is oging on in the book
<jjesse> i just know what i ahve to do for my chapter, and i don't have a large overview of the goals that canonical has for the book
<LaserJock> exactly
<Burgwork> jjesse, you are not alone in the lost category
<jjesse> be back in 15 minutes, work calls
<jjesse> Burgwork: how does that get improved?
<Burgwork> jjesse, call debra?
<LaserJock> but that's my point, the doc team will have no chance to react to the book because we can't see it and even the individual authors are having problems seeing what's going on
<poningru> can I remove the work in progress from flight 7 announce page?
<poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight7
<jjesse> poningru: i would ask mgalvin
<jjesse> LaserJock and Burgwork sent an email to deb to see what is going on, will forward resposne to the mailing list
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I mean, I'm all for the book. I just feel like the doc team (and perhaps the authors as well) aren't being kept in the loop.
<Burgwork> jjesse, cheers, thanks
<Burgwork> jjesse, I will probably call her before lunch as well
<jjesse> LaserJock: i totally agree, hopefully it shows through the emails to the list about inclusion of the book in the distro
<jjesse> Burgwork: would be interested to here what they say, at work right now and cannot call :(
* mdke arrives
<mdke> jjesse: I exchanged a few emails back and forward with Jane
<jjesse> mdke: get anything worked out?
<mdke> she gets the point I think, but seems really keen on including the book because, as she rightly says, it's quite exciting that the book is under a free licence and she thinks it is an important part of the ubuntu ecosystem (her word).
<mdke> I'm really hoping it doesn't go into the help menu, I think that would be pretty terrible
<mdke> if it has to go in, I can see a case for putting into example-content, maybe as the odt example piece
<jjesse> mdke: i think the bigger problem is what LaserJock and i were talking about, howw to manage the book going forward, will the authors or the doc team be responsbile for keeping it current?
<mdke> Ah, that's a separate problem.
<jjesse> mdke: the example idea would be great as well
<mdke> I'm sure we'll work out how to manage the book going forward, I don't see that as an issue
<Burgwork> jjesse, afaik, there will be money for updating the book, if needed
<jjesse> Burgwork: i think the problem is that there is a lot of AFIK going around
<mdke> what I'm worried about now is that the concern for marketing this book is going to impact on the help system in a negative way
<Burgwork> first refusal for that work goes to the original authors
<jjesse> Burgwork: but that would be silly if the content is under an open liense
<Burgwork> jjesse, not necessarily. If the content get abandoned, or needs work to make it book form
<jjesse> Burgwork: understand now
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<mdke> LaserJock: hi
<LaserJock> mdke: I'm going over the book and I noticed that <application> is not treate specially
<LaserJock> whereas in yelp and HTML it is
<mdke> LaserJock: nice one, thanks
<mdke> we'll make it italics, shall we?
<LaserJock> I think that is what the HTML does
<LaserJock> actually it is bold in HTML
<LaserJock> but I think italics in yelp
<mdke> oh dear. we should probably change the HTML too, for consistency
<LaserJock> mdke: hmm, should I point out things like that for yelp and HTML? I've noticed a few but thought they were intentional or something
<LaserJock> mostly <application> though
<mdke> yeah, if they are significant, I guess we can change the HTML
<LaserJock> mdke: do you happen to know of an easy way to convert a wiki page to docbook?
<mdke> LaserJock: not really, moin has an xml output thing in 1.5 but it isn't really good enough for our purposes
<LaserJock> mdke: well, I just need to get a rough start for someone to clean up, the page isn't terribly long though so maybe I'll just get them started with XML
<mdke> yeah, try moin 1.5 then
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know of any moin 1.5 that I would have access to
<mdke> desktop moin :)
<LaserJock> yeah, unfortunately OSX doesn't have a 1.5 desktop moin, only 1.3
<mdke> you need to scrap OSX dude
<LaserJock> no kidding
<LaserJock> although I really like it
<LaserJock> mdke: still here?
<mdke> LaserJock: yes
<mdke> on and off
<LaserJock> mdke: if I were to add a new doc in trunk/edubuntu/ would that be ok?
<LaserJock> it's a little pamphlet that some edubuntu guys have been working on
<mdke> don't see why not.
<mdke> LaserJock: ^
<LaserJock> ok, just wanted to check first :-)
<jeffsch> LaserJock: in the repos, see /teamstuff/moin2db/xml_docbook.py
<jeffsch> LaserJock: i don't know how well it works though
<LaserJock> jeffsch: good to know, thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2006-05-14
<rob> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2006-May/000192.html
<rob> Ubuntu-au Dcoumentation Project ^
<rob> s/Dcoumentation/Documentation
<rob> not sure if this is worth worrying about, but some of you might be interested (disclaimer: I have nothing to do with it)
<robotgeek> we might also ask Kaiser about it!
<rob> yeah I guess, is he part of the au loco team?
<robotgeek> yeah, i'll ping him when i see him
<robotgeek> if i see the screen anymore, i'll got blind :)
<robotgeek> later all!
<rob> bye robotgeek 
<vmadmin> helllo
<vmadmin> I like to submit a doc to the wiki
<Madpilot> hi vmadmin 
<vmadmin> Madpilot: hi
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiTeam
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiGuide
<Madpilot> vmadmin, have a look at those two URLs, for starters ^^^
<vmadmin> Madpilot: i am going away for a week or so tomorrow evening so hope to get it up by then wil look at what you suggested
<Madpilot> make sure you're not duplicating information that's already on the wiki when you're adding new stuff - aside from that, go nuts
<vmadmin> perhaps because I have never sumitted a doc before they will not let me
<vmadmin> the team
<Madpilot> the wiki is open, currently
<Madpilot> if you have an account there, you can create new pages if you want to
<vmadmin> o ok well thats good
<vmadmin> no i will create an account
<Madpilot> top right corner of every page on wiki.ubuntu.com should have a "Log in/Create Account" link
<vmadmin> Madpilot; many thanks
<Madpilot> no problem - always good to see more people getting involved
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, wireless trouble still?
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: no, browser crashing due to totem plugin, which takes the entire machine down
<Madpilot> ah, it's a Redmond-style bug! :P
<mindspin> hi, anyone from the german translation team around?
<Burgundavia> mindspin: you might want to try #ubuntu-de
<mindspin> I'll try , but its mostly used for support
<jjesse> did anything ever get resolved about the book being included in the release?
<jjesse> morning jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> jjesse: morning
<jjesse> or its probally evening for you if i recall correctly
<jsgotangco> i dunno..the thread just died
<jsgotangco> yeah its almost 9pm
<jjesse> you are in the phillipines correct?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> did you guys send anything in the post?
<jsgotangco> i received a postal card about a parcel
<jjesse> i didn't
* jsgotangco would be disappointed if its a bunch of breezy cds
<jsgotangco> :D
<jjesse> probablly just made it
<jjesse> looking forward to recieving kubuntu 6.10 cds from shipit :)
<jsgotangco> oh yeah
<jsgotangco> are your chapter/s done already?
<jjesse> jsgotangco: i have some small changes, change espresso to ubiquity and change livecd to desktop cd
<jjesse> mdke: ping
<mdke> jjesse: hi
<jjesse> mdke: just forwarded a converstation that jane and i have been having regarding the book and dapper
<mdke> right, I'm in the loop already, I think
<jjesse> cool, i just wanted to update you
<jjesse> in case you weren't
<mdke> yeah, jane sent me that
<jjesse> ok just trying to keep everyone in the loop :)
<mdke> :)
<mdke> my problem is just with putting it in the menu
<mdke> I think mark is insisting on it
<mdke> but i think the help system will lose coherence
<mdke> and the absence of translation *really* bugs me
<jsgotangco> just read that
<jsgotangco> i still insist on having it on CD but not installed by default
<jjesse> umm in aother email deb from prentince hall is "working on translations"
<mdke> for dapper?
<jjesse> for the ubuntu book
<jsgotangco> for same reason that the installation guide is not installed by default either but availble on the CD
<jsgotangco> or have ubiquity link to a PDF before it starts i dunno
<jjesse> I know that Debra is already arranging
<jjesse> translations
<mdke> jsgotangco: they want to pimp up the book, which is understandable
<jsgotangco> sure
<mdke> but not at the cost of an overlapping help system :(
<jsgotangco> that too
<mdke> i'd be happy with it in example-content
* jsgotangco thinks making it obvious in g-a-i or example content is acceptable
<jjesse> i think that is where jane is leaning as well, but was asked by sabdfl if a menu option could be created
<mdke> yeah, that's right
<mdke> i might mail sabdfl
<jsgotangco> it'll muck up the help system
<jjesse> mdke that woud be a great idea
<jsgotangco> you'll get 4 entries
<mdke> yeah, and there are more worthy candidates for extra entries
<mdke> locoteams, irc, forums
<jsgotangco> speaking of the menu, that help button sure is blurry
<jsgotangco> System documentation rather
<mdke> yeah, good point
<jsgotangco> jjesse: so how does it feel to be in amazon :P
<jsgotangco> ciao
<glatzor> hi, does anybody know how I can use the gnome-doc-utils infrastructure without automake?
<mdke> glatzor: you don't need automake to install gnome-doc-utils, afaik, only to compile it
<glatzor> I would like to use it in gnome-app-install and update-manager. but we use a pyhon based setup.py script there.
<mdke> glatzor: ah, I see. hang on
<mdke> glatzor: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeDocUtilsMigrationHowTo
<glatzor> furthermore i havent used xml2po for quite some years. perhaps I need to update my knowledge.
<mdke> if that doesn't help, ask in #docs on irc.gnome.org or the gnome-doc-list
<glatzor> thanks
<glatzor> mdke: it's only about automake integration. but I can manage the files manually, too. I just wondered if there was also another infrastructure that could be easily used with setup.py.
<mdke> glatzor: I don't know, you'll have to ask the gnome docs guys. specifically danilo can help, I suspect
<glatzor> i will contact him. thanks.
<LaserJock> arggg, I hate email
<jjesse> why do you hate email ?
<LaserJock> because I'm always worried about people taking what I'm saying the wrong way
<LaserJock> and so I spend forever on these reallly wordy emails
<LaserJock> and then nobody really cares
<jjesse> me too, i usually save them in drafs and come back and work on them again
<LaserJock> I'm working on a reply to your foward
<jjesse> oh then i'll care about it :)
<LaserJock> well, I really don't want it to come off as a flame or anything
<jjesse> flame away i have fire protection :)
<LaserJock> I'm not upset, I'm more worried for the doc team and how they are supposed to deal with the book
* mdke is more worried about the help system getting cluttered up and confusing
<jjesse> mdke: +1
<LaserJock> mdke: ping?
<LaserJock> bombs away!
<LaserJock> mdke: unping, I think :-)
<claude> ping mdke
<LaserJock> claude: he might be in bed now.
<claude> k :-(
<claude> I should too ;-)
<claude> maybe another expert of xml2po here?
<mdke> claude: hi
<mdke> LaserJock: never!
<LaserJock> hehe
<claude> he he :)
<mdke> thanks for the "another expert" thing
<mdke> wholly inaccurate, but I like it
<claude> mdke, i want to use xml2po with xhtml
<claude> I read a post on a ML where you talked on this subject with the developer
<mdke> I did? ok
<claude> but i didn't find any xhtml module
<mdke> I see the email
<mdke> did you see danilo's reply?
<claude> yes...
<mdke> if you use -a, he says it will work
<mdke> is it strict xhtml?
<claude> nope
<claude> Warning: cannot load module 'xhtml', using automatic detection (-a).
<claude> modules are in /usr/share/xml2po
<mdke> i think transitional xhtml is going to be problematic
<claude> ls -> docbook.py empty.py gs.py
<mdke> there is a specific tool for html->pot, but it only handles strict xhtml, iirc
<claude> and what is it?
<claude> for xml2po, i suppose i should write a module based on empty.py
<claude> but maybe someone already wrote it :-P
* claude 's so lazy
<mdke> I can't remember what the tool was called for html->pot, but I found it via google. I exchanged some mails with the maintainer about transitional, I remember he said it didn't work well.
<mdke> claude: as for xml2po, best to ask danilo about it.
<mdke> file a bug on xml2po and he'll get straight back to you
<claude> k, thx
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-07
* mdke mornings
<Madpilot> morning mdke
<shirish> mdke, nixternal either of you up?
<shirish> guys I have made some changes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contribute ,  added an whole gedit part, although would be specifying this change on the ubuntu-doc mailing list also, but would be nice if somebody can take a look & either do some corrections or comment if something is added, missing or can be improved upon
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-09
<XiXaQ> I'm trying to find out how I can setup CalDAV. Can someone point me in the right direction?
<yarddog> hi, i am looking to possibly join the team, i am currently involved with tritium and the new mexico team, #ubuntu-newmexico
<Admiral_Chicago> yarddog: http://www.mdke.org/?p=67
<yarddog> thank you, i tried to join via the launchpad, however it said only admin could add new members.
<Admiral_Chicago> yes, that is true, this is to make sure people who are added are those whom have been working in the team
<yarddog> thank you Admiral_Chicago ill look into this
<Admiral_Chicago> yarddog: no problem, i'd take a look at bug reports or mentoring roles and see what you can help improve
<Admiral_Chicago> myself, i am pushing to help xubuntu documentation
<yarddog> sounds good, ill look at it this week
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* #ubuntu-doc  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> congrats mdke & Burgundavia on CC!!!
<bhuvan> wow! congratulations mdke & Burgundavia !!!
<nixternal> we now have connections bhuvan ;)
<bhuvan> yes!
<Burgundavia> and jerome
<Burgundavia> the original three doc team people
<nixternal> nice
<mdke> bhuvan, nixternal - thanks
<theCore> mdke: I got a question about the docs
<mdke> theCore: shoot
<theCore> mdke. why the language entity in the server guide is  "&EnglishAmerican;"? and not "en-us" ?
<mdke> theCore: no idea. I don't think such an entity is used at all
<mdke> you can probably safely ignore it
<theCore> &EnglishAmerican; doesn't exist in DocBook, I believe
<theCore> mdke: do what to see the patch?
<theCore> do you*
<theCore> mdke: well, xsltproc doesn't ignore it, and spit out many warning messages
<theCore> No localization exists for "c" or "". Using default "en".
<mdke> theCore: that's fine, all our docs contain that warning
<theCore> mdke: that's not true
<theCore> mdke: only the serverguide emits it
<theCore> that is because &EnglishAmerican; is undefined
<mdke> we've always had that error when building docs for the last 2 years at least
<mdke> it's never been an issue
<mdke> if you think it's important, feel free to file a bug or send a patch
<theCore> yes, that isn't an issue, but it is annoying
<theCore> mdke: http://peadrop.com/files/server-language.patch http://peadrop.com/files/serverguide-language.patch
<mdke> right
<mdke> is there a reason to prefer en-us over en, as with the other docs?
<mdke> or indeed removing the entity entirely?
<theCore> not really, I just wanted to make the change transparent
<mdke> I see that basic-commands doesn't have the entity; that was created with wiki->docbook tools, and if we are going to start using them more, we may wish to be consistent with headers
<mdke> is there a disadvantage in not including the entity?
<theCore> mdke: I don't know
<theCore> all the docs got it
<theCore> so, it would more trouble to remove it than to just change it
<mdke> true
<mdke> (except basic-commands)
<theCore> % find -name '*.xml' -print0 | xargs -0 grep '<!ENTITY language' | wc -l
<theCore> 127
<theCore> hm there is a few more ...
<theCore> find -name '*.xml' -print0 | xargs -0 grep '<!ENTITY language \"&EnglishAmerican;\"'  | wc -l
<theCore> 44
<theCore> so, the majority is "en"
<theCore> mdke: do you want me to change them to "en" or "en-us"?
<mdke> theCore: I don't really have the knowledge to make such a decision :)
<theCore> ah, well
<theCore> I will go for "en"
<mdke> ok
<theCore> done
<theCore> http://peadrop.com/files/en-language-entity.patch
<mdke> looks like the first two in the list have it twice
<theCore> wait ...
<theCore> mdke: yes
<mdke> and maybe some others there
<theCore> mdke: that is what I just saw
<theCore> why is it defined twice?
<theCore> hm
<theCore> that is weird
<theCore> I going to learn what the ``language'' entity do, before changing it
<theCore> that would be a sage idea
<mdke> :)
<theCore> oh, the current DocBook standard is 4.5
<theCore> (we use 4.1)
<theCore> but that isn't important
<theCore> oh v5.0, is coming soon
<theCore> but who cares ...
<theCore> mdke: do you know how the docs are translated?
<mdke> sure, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
<theCore> thanks
<theCore> ah, I found how it's used
<theCore> it's a custom entity
<theCore> <book lang="&language;" id="x01">
<theCore> it used throughout the documents, removing it would be a pain
<theCore> I don't know yet why it's used, though
<mdke> :)
<theCore> <!DOCTYPE article PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML V4.1.2//EN"
<theCore> 	"http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.1.2/docbookx.dtd" [
<theCore> the language is also specified by the DOCTYPE
<theCore> ah... XML is a such redundant language...
<theCore> hmm... I just though of an interesting hack
<theCore> Would it be good idea to a pre-commit hook to svn, that check the validity of the docbook files and refuse them if there are invalid?
<theCore> In fact, it would be quite easy to do
<theCore> mdke, what do you think?
<mdke> interesting
<mdke> let me think about it
<nixternal> mdke: think long and hard about it, you and I only commit docs that are validated ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-10
<XiXaQ> hey. I'm following the email guides on the help for feisty. It tells me to add something to the end of /etc/postfix/sasl/smtpd.conf, but I have no such file. Should I create one?
<XiXaQ> perhaps this is a bug?
<nothlit> can anyone help me move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Collaboration+Progress to Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress ?--not sure if this is the place to ask...
<popey> sladen: moo
<sladen> popey: HAHAHAHA.  not.
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-11
<mdke> morning
<Madpilot> morning
<mdke> http://elibrary.fultus.com/technical/index.jsp?topic=/com.fultus.ubuntu/index.html
<Madpilot> mdke, interesting.
<acacs> hi all
<acacs> the link https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/ is broken
<acacs> should i file a bug report in ubuntu-docs
<acacs> ?
<acacs> the link is at https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/advanced-topics/C/index.html
<bhuvan> acacs: yes, please file a bug report
<acacs> bhuvan: ok, thanks
<bhuvan> np
<ubotu> New bug: #114106 in ubuntu-doc "Broken link to the Installation Guide" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114106
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm, richard, i'm looking at bug #114106 how can i make the patch?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114106 in ubuntu-doc "Broken link to the Installation Guide" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114106
<nixternal> well, it either needs to be removed, or we need to post the install guide on the server. I don't think it is anything you can do, mdke or someone with access to the h.u.c site can fix it
<nixternal> and call me nixternal so it highlights me ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-12
<Admiral_Chicago> okay nixternal nixternal nixternal :). I thought it was a problem with the system docs. I was excited for buliding patches
<nixternal> grr
<nixternal> it is a problem with system docs, but you need to first understand is it supposed to link elsewhere or has the install-guide not been uploaded to h.u.c
<nixternal> I don't mess with the Ubuntu side, they know what they are doing, so I leave it alone :)
<nixternal> now if it were Kubuntu side, then I would be able to give you a better answer
<Admiral_Chicago> well as long its not something i can fix, i understand that
<nixternal> it isn't something I can't fix either, so don't feel bad ;)
<ubotu> New bug: #114266 in ubuntu-doc ""Installing" should be included to h.u.c." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114266
* kestrel wanders off for awhile...
<Simon80> how would I contribute something to http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html?
<mdke> Simon80: you should get some help at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted but if you have any questions please ask
<Simon80> so I have to check out the files, edit, make a patch, and submit it?
<Simon80> cause I'm lazy, and would just like to suggest an easier way to do multiple pbuilders, but that seems like a lot of work compared to editing a wiki page
<Simon80> ?
<Simon80> mdke ^^
<Simon80> bah, you guys win, I'm editing the xml now :)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-05-13
<mdke> Simon80: either that or filing a bug
<Simon80> too late :D
<mdke> :)
<Simon80> anyone in here have strong feelings about the pbuilder-distribution.sh file? My idea sort of supersedes it, so I was planning on changing the docs to recommend this, and only briefly mention that script so that people can choose to investigate it if they prefer
<Simon80> and by sort of, I mean that by adding a few lines to a pbuilderrc, one ca automate the usage of multiple pbuilder tarballs, but preserve the ability to use pdebuild
<Simon80> unlike that script
<Simon80> I guess I'll find out if there's any disagreement when I mail my patch
<mdke> Simon80: the person to talk to is Jordan Mantha (Laserjock)
<mdke> he'll hopefully see your mail
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> I'll just wait for that
<mdke> if he doesn't tickle him a bit
<mdke> he's at the conference right now so wait for a few days
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> I'll, I was just going to file it off to the doc mailing list anyhow
<Simon80> no rush
<Simon80> it's up to you guys how fast you act on it
<mdke> thanks for your work
<Simon80> welcome
<Simon80> I wanted to use pbuilder with both ubuntu and debian, but the existing method on the page wouldn't be able to work with pdebuild, so I'm fixing that
<crimsun> mdke: are you able to rename https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreperation to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreparation , please?
<Flannel> crimsun: Those are both the same
<crimsun> what's the same?
<Flannel> crimsun: both your URLs
<Flannel> oh
<crimsun> uh huh.
<Flannel> fixed the spelling, gotcha
<Flannel> crimsun: while we're talking about housekeeping, can you alias !studio to !ubuntustudio?
<crimsun> Flannel: I don't head up that, sorry.
<crimsun> Flannel: I think you need to ask in #ubuntu-ops
<Flannel> crimsun: yeah, I just know you're an op, so you could do it.  No worries
<Simon80> alright, I just fired off the email without joining the list, so feel free to look for it now
<Simon80> in hindsight, I should have just joined, to save you the trouble
<Simon80> I think I'll do that
<Simon80> so nevermind
* kestrel quietly sneeks back.
<mdke> crimsun: do you still need anything?
<crimsun> mdke: well, _MMA_ was needing that page rename for Ubuntu Studio
<crimsun> mdke: (I was just relaying it.)
<mdke> crimsun: I'm still not clear what page needs renaming to what though
<mdke> ah, I see it
<crimsun> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreperation to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreparation
<mdke> done
<crimsun> thanks!
<mdke> crimsun: you doing ok?
<crimsun> mdke: yep, and yourself?
<mdke> very well thanks. Pretty busy lately but ok
<crimsun> hear, hear
<mdke> hiya joachim-n
<joachim-n> hi mdke
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-05
<melat0nin> Hi all
<melat0nin> How does one get into proofing ubuntu docs/gnome apps
<melat0nin> I've noticed some mistakes in some apps that I would love to help fix
<mdke> melat0nin: the first step is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam - after that, if anything isn't clear, then you should ask on our mailing list
<melat0nin> Right will do, thanks
<melat0nin> Can I ask why all the wiki pages have NamesLikesThis rather than Names Like This?  I tried to find and answer but couldn't
<melat0nin> It's a bit off-putting
<melat0nin> Found the answer, although I still think it's not ideal :(
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-07
<nickellery> hey, can anyone tell me how I can change this:
<nickellery> <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:add-applications">Add Applications</ulink>
<nickellery> to direct to basic-commands instead?
<nickellery> I've tried changing add-applications to that, but received a parsing error when I tried Yelp
<nickellery> hey, can anyone tell me how I can change this:
<nickellery> <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:add-applications">Add Applications</ulink>
<nickellery> to direct to basic-commands instead?
<nixternal> <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:basic-commands">Basic Commands</ulink> is my guess
<nickellery> I tried that an received a parsing error when I tried Yelp
<nixternal> is it basic commands or basic concepts/
<nickellery> the file is called basic-commands.xml
<nixternal> I am not familiar with yelp/ghelp nor do I have the ubuntu docs checked out, just Kubuntu...maybe someone else might be able to help a bit better than I can right now...sorry
<nickellery> alright, thanks for trying
<alefteris> I would like some help with building a localised version of the help.ubuntu.com. I'm trying with "make -C ubuntu -f Makefile all" but i get lots of "No localization exists for "c" or "". Using default "en".". What am I doing wrong?
<ikonia> is there a page in the wiki on all the wiki codes for formatting, eg: bullet points ?
<ikonia> yes
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> sorry
<ikonia> wrong window
<mdke> ikonia: yes, HelpOnEditing
<ikonia> ah, thank you
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-08
<MagicFab> heya
<jjesse_> hello
<MagicFab> Is there  a way to have nice anchor links from ToC generated links ?
<MagicFab> (in the wiki)
<jjesse> hrmm don't remember
<jjesse> been awhile
<MagicFab> I know how to use anchors - but I wish I could tie an anchor to a title / header so automatic ToCs would link there instead of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM#head-cc4057205f46f3da4e36ee1974c50c51bd89ed24 for example
<dsas> I don't think so.
<dsas> I wonder if the new wiki has that feature...
<MagicFab> I am asking in #moin but it's mostly quiet
<alefteris> I would like some help with producing a greek version of help.ubuntu.com. Has anyone done it that can help me with it?
<alefteris> I'm trying to find who is the person that made help.ubuntu-it.org, but no luck there as well :( no one here that can help or I'm being ignored?
<alefteris> mdke, online by any chance?
<dsas> alefteris: Are you part of the ubuntu-gr team?
<alefteris> dsas, yeap, and maintaining their site
<dsas> alefteris: Ah, well there's the obvious answer gone then :)
<dsas> What in particular do you need helping with?
<alefteris> i would like to build the doc html files using the greek translation
<alefteris> I have the bzr branch locally, I can produce the html files in english, but I don;t know the puild options to make use of the greek po files
<alefteris> dsas, any ideas?
<alefteris> dsas, nevermind, I got an answer from the mailing list. Thanks for giving me some attension :)
<dsas> sorry alefteris, I got a phone call
<dsas> good luck anyway
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-09
<Madpilot> evening all
<Madpilot> Has anyone found ANY up-to-date LVM docs or tutorials online anywhere? everything I find is way out of date, even on our wiki
<Flannel> What sort of stuff?
<Flannel> Madpilot
<Madpilot> Flannel, trying to create LVM /home across two HDDs; the alt installerÂ´s docs arenÂ´t much help, and nearly everything IÂ´m finding on the intertubes is... old.
<Flannel> the ibm thing on it does a good job of explaining it.  The concepts haven't changed.  But I can walk you through the alt CD stuff
<Madpilot> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-lvm2/?ca=dgr-lnxw02aLinuxLVM2&S_TACT=105AG  <-- this IBM one?
<Madpilot> tonight IÂ´m just hacking around; IÂ´m likely going to re-install tomorrow to get everything working & partitioned properly
<Flannel> No, thats... newer than the one I'm talking about
<Flannel> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lvm/
<Flannel> On the alt CD, go to partitioning, make lvm partitions (you don't want to do the whole disc thing, you want to use partitions as PVs), then go up to the top and do the lvm config, it'll ask if you want to write partition changes, yes, obviously.  Then inside there, you'll make a volume group, add your second pv to it, then partition that.
<Flannel> Er, add your second pv to it, then create a logical volume on that, which will be partitioned [ext3]
<Flannel> Its pretty straight forward.  I'd suggest remembering to make the names of everything short, since in fstab they all get concated, or at least on dapper.  I guess on hardy it'll all be UUID based.
<Madpilot> itÂ´s that 2nd part that I missed on this install attempt - IÂ´ve got the LVM space set aside, but nothing in it
<Flannel> Are they formatted as lvm partitions?
<Madpilot> Not sure at this point, IÂ´ve been messing around in terminal post-install
<Flannel> I've always gone through the installer, but you can add them afterwards too, yeah.
<Madpilot> my actual files are safe on the 2nd HDD, which is unplugged, so IÂ´m in playground mode at moment
<Flannel> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-lvm2.html is the second to the other one I posted, that talks about commands
<Flannel> and that'll be what you need right now
<Madpilot> thnx
<Madpilot> hadnÂ´t realized there were so many steps, actually. pvolumes, lvolumes, etc etc etc
<Flannel> well, you've gotta create stuff on disc, then group them into virtual disks, then partition those virtual disks
<Flannel> and yes, I used both disc and disk.  Just be glad I'm not repeating the same terms over and over.  Darn final projects and no sleep.
<Madpilot> Flannel, heh. I might actually be getting somewhere now without having to re-install. We shall see.
<Madpilot> like I said, playground mode at this point
<Flannel> well, I did say the ibm stuff does a good job ;)
<Konam> I just saw that in the Help and Support we have the server guide in the desktop :/
<Konam> and to think that I made DougieRichardson to go through the trouble of making a PDF for me..
<Konam> can someone tell me where are the docs -es versions on LP, I just see the cores but I can't find the different languages versions
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-10
<S0210> What should I do if I want to contribute to the Hungarian translation of xfce4-session?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-05-11
<Schwitzd> hello
<Schwitzd> any wiki editors?
<bimberi> Schwitzd: Which /whois Schwitzd
<bimberi> blah :)
<Schwitzd> bimberi: yes :D
<bimberi> (we ended up PMing)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-04
<pace_t_zulu> any Documentation Team members around? I need some help with how to appropriately fix a page that i have been working on
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Put it in a bug report and they will get around to it eventually
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: no bug report necessary
<Shane_Fagan> Ah
<pace_t_zulu> it is a wiki page
<pace_t_zulu> for nonfree software
<pace_t_zulu> it was just really out of date
<Shane_Fagan> What do you want to do?
<Shane_Fagan> If you want to make it more up to date change it.
<pace_t_zulu> well there are instructions for older versions
<pace_t_zulu> should i create a subpage for each version?
<nhandler> jjesse: Yeah, I probably won't be able ot meet up with you. I wish you had been here for our release party the other week
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: I dont think so just put the instructions under headings for each version id say
<Shane_Fagan> Give me the url of the page
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: thank you ... will do
<pace_t_zulu> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: That page really needs a clean up too
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: that's what i am working on
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: good then
<Shane_Fagan> Thanks for your contribution
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: i think i am going to be removing pretty much all the old stuff since it is quite irrelavent
<Shane_Fagan> Thats very good.
<pace_t_zulu> should i be removing CategoryScience?
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: should i remove CategoryScience?
<DougieRichardson> pace_t_zulu: No please leave it just now
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan and DougieRichardson do you guys mind taking a look at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MATLAB and let me know if it is acceptable for now?
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Sure ill have a look
<pace_t_zulu> if it's not ok... please let me know what i may be doing wrong
<pace_t_zulu> and i have two old pages that just redirect to newer pages right now... they need to be deleted
<DougieRichardson> ok wait one
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: It looks a lot cleaner and has the most recent install info which is good.
<DougieRichardson> I'm not sure about the entry saying to use octave their pretty different and it sounds a little preachy
<Shane_Fagan> I agree
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: i agree... that was there before... thought it might be encouraged
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: been wanting to remove that for a while
<DougieRichardson> otherwise its good, if there's deletions you need to nominate them by adding tags to those page
<DougieRichardson> pace_t_zulu:yeah bin it its tonk
<pace_t_zulu> i will remove the content cleanup tag for now
<pace_t_zulu> ! tonk
<ubot4`> Factoid 'tonk' not found
<DougieRichardson> tonk - not very good
<pace_t_zulu> bin?
<DougieRichardson> get rid
<pace_t_zulu> haha...
<pace_t_zulu> just wasn't sure if there was some sort of doc lingo i wasn't yet tuned into
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: so i have these other two pages that just serve as redirects right now... because i originally named them with improper capitalization
<DougieRichardson> yep - nominate them for deletion.
<DougieRichardson> sorry playing cod5 as well
<Shane_Fagan> Nazi zombies is great
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: no worries
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: how do i nominate for deletion?
<pace_t_zulu> DougieRichardson: apologies for my naivete
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu: Ah everyone needs help when they are starting out. I started yesterday myself.
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: cool
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: do you know how to nominate for deletion?
<Shane_Fagan> Dont have a clue
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, you can use the Preview button to see your changes, without having to submit lots of really tiny changes to a page
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you
<Rocket2DMn> when you do the latter, you generate a lot of email, and it isnt really a good way to go about editing
<Rocket2DMn> just FYI :)
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: do you know how to nominate a page for deletion?
<Rocket2DMn> you can add the Deletion tag - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I didn't realize saving changes to a page generated email... apologies for spamming everyone here
<Rocket2DMn> or you can tell me right now and i'll delete them
<Shane_Fagan> pace_t_zulu:  Do you mean a section for deletion or the entire page?
<pace_t_zulu> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/chromium
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: they are just redirects now
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: entire page
<Rocket2DMn> that first page you linked me to doesnt exist
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: sorry http://help.ubuntu.com/community/webkitgtk
<Rocket2DMn> ok, the pages are deleted
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you
<Rocket2DMn> no problem
<DougieRichardson> cheers rocket2dmn
<Rocket2DMn> :)
<pace_t_zulu> is my documentation on http://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebKit and http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium up to standards?
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, those pages look very nice
<Rocket2DMn> Is webkit not in the Ubuntu repositories?  I'm pretty sure Chromium is
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thank you, i made those two from scratch
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: webkit is... i don't think chromium is (still a ppa)...
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i made the page for developers interested in getting and building the code themselves
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: it makes sense for WebKit... and chromium right now until there is a real linux release
<Rocket2DMn> We always support programs using the Ubuntu repositories.  It's OK to document how to install from source, but you should always first explain how to do it the "Ubuntu way", which is from the repositories
<Rocket2DMn> In this way, Ubuntu can support the program, and offer updates and whatnot
<Rocket2DMn> I see that there is a program called Chromium in the repositories, it is a videogame
<Shane_Fagan> Rocket2DMn: Im sure they will just rename it "google-chrome" or "Google-Chromium" when they put it in the repo
<Rocket2DMn> Chromium is the same thing as Google's Chrome?
<Shane_Fagan> Chromium is the backend engine
<Rocket2DMn> ah, i see, we should probably specify on the page exactly what is being talked about
<Shane_Fagan> Yep I think we should
<Rocket2DMn> should we rename the page?
<Shane_Fagan> Dont know
<Rocket2DMn> I think we probably should, so as not to confuse user's with the current program in the repos called Chromium
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: Chromium is the name of the project that produces Chrome
<Shane_Fagan> yep "Google-Chromium"?
<Rocket2DMn> Shane_Fagan, the proper naming convention on the wiki would just be GoogleChromium
<Rocket2DMn> I assume that Chromium is also produced by google?
<Shane_Fagan> Yep
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, what do you think
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: "Chromium is the open-source project behind Google Chrome. We're releasing a first look at Chromium and invite you to join us in our effort to:"
<pace_t_zulu> from their page
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: should there be separate wiki's for dev's and end users?
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: http://code.google.com/chromium/
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, Ubuntu's team wiki as at wiki.ubuntu.com
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I don't think chromium is google branded
<Rocket2DMn> Yeah, I'm not seeing the branding anywhere
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: Chrome is, however, google branded
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: the chromium game in the repos will need consideration at some point
<Shane_Fagan> t
<Shane_Fagan> It isnt google branded because its just the backend
<Rocket2DMn> maybe the page should be called ChromiumBrowser?
<Shane_Fagan> ChromiumBrowser would be good
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: how relevant is this chromium game though?
<Rocket2DMn> idk pace_t_zulu , i've never used it, but it already holds a spot in the repos
<Rocket2DMn> hey look here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
<pace_t_zulu> because Chromium is as much a browser as WebKit is a browser ... it really isn't
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i understand pace_t_zulu
<Rocket2DMn> their website refers to it as a browser project though
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i defer to your experience... i am not going to get picky about this
<Rocket2DMn> on LP, it is called chromium-browser
<pace_t_zulu> so http://help.ubuntu.com/community/ChromiumBrowser
<Shane_Fagan> Well I was looking around for Chromium the game and it doesnt seem to be too used
<Rocket2DMn> yeah Shane_Fagan , i agree, it doesn't have any mention on the community docs (yet).  This discussion would be much simpler if we actually knew that the name of the project would be if it were in the repos
<Shane_Fagan> Yep I think for now just rename it ChromiumBrowser
<Shane_Fagan> It looks like a cool game though really bad website lol
<pace_t_zulu> so should i create a new page and copy the contents on the current one over?
<Rocket2DMn> before we rename anything, we need to figure out if the page is relevant, since https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build already exists
<Rocket2DMn> and apparently the guys who run the ppa use that
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: that page is hard to find
<pace_t_zulu> i never found it searching... how did you find it?
<Rocket2DMn> on google, i ran "site:wiki.ubuntu.com chromium"
<pace_t_zulu> ok
<pace_t_zulu> that isn't too obvious to most users
<pace_t_zulu> i should have thought of it though since i know about it
<Rocket2DMn> welcome to documentation :)
<pace_t_zulu> the average user might google "chromium ubuntu" to figure out how to get chromium on ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> i agree pace_t_zulu
<Shane_Fagan> Ditto
<Rocket2DMn> well pace_t_zulu , depending on how far you want to pursue this, you could contact Fabien Tassin, he is the one running the ppa and maintaining the wiki page
<Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~fta
<Rocket2DMn> i see you had a discussion in the devel channel a bit ago about this
<Shane_Fagan> It has to be noted that there are already loads of pages on how to install chromium on ubuntu
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: there are a lot of discrepencies
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: many of them involve Wine
<Shane_Fagan> Ah I understand
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, i would get in contact with fta.  if you have stuff on your h.u.c page that you think should be included on the w.u.c page, you can let him know
<Rocket2DMn> I think a redirect should be set from the page you created to the original page on w.u.c
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: roger :(
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, do you do development stuff for chromium?
<Rocket2DMn> they have a LP team - https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i have been unable to build on Ubuntu so far... linking fails
<Rocket2DMn> as well as a bunch of related projects
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: have had no trouble with it on Mac OS X
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, i'm not meaning to trod on the work you've done.  The page looks very nice, it's just that somebody else beat you to it
<Rocket2DMn> and they are already wel established
<Rocket2DMn> I'm just trying to direct you to the existing resources and contacts so you can get involved if you want
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i understand this
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i am just trying to help any way i can
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: I couldn't find decent chromium browser stuff for ubuntu when i started... but you are definitely right
<Rocket2DMn> well pace_t_zulu , fta isn't online right now, but Alexander Sack is in #ubuntu-devel, uesrname "asac"
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: i forget the redirect page
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: sorry, i meant i forget the redirect markup
<Rocket2DMn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions
<Rocket2DMn> you will need to use #REFRESH <time> URL
<Rocket2DMn> #REDIRECT only works for other wiki pages on the same wiki
<pace_t_zulu> roger
<Rocket2DMn> I'd remove the content of the h.u.c page, and set #REFRESH 2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Chromium/Build
<pace_t_zulu> i will leave those instructions there for now in case they can be carried over... the #REFRESH will make sure they are not seen
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: ok... i'll remove the content then
<Rocket2DMn> they will be shown with refresh
<pace_t_zulu> what about a #REFRESH 0
<pace_t_zulu> ?
<Rocket2DMn> you can always look at older versions of the page, set the refresh and i'll show you after
<Rocket2DMn> i'd do refresh 1 so it gives you time to abort the redirect if you want
<Rocket2DMn> we've had problems in the past with refresh 0 blocking you out of editing the page
<pace_t_zulu> changed it to 1
<pace_t_zulu> how do i look at older versions?
<Rocket2DMn> go to Page History at the bottom
<Shane_Fagan> Can someone commit my patch   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26280252/ubuntu-karmic.diff    its for Bug #371190
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 371190 in ubuntu-docs "Rhythmbox has a tag editor musicvideophotos/c/music.xml  line 58" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371190
<Rocket2DMn> then you can click View along the right side to see an older snapshot of the page
<Rocket2DMn> pace_t_zulu, for instance - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Chromium?action=recall&rev=20
<DougieRichardson> shane_fagan: its on my workflow, i'll get to it
<Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Thanks I just branched and didnt see it
<Shane_Fagan> So I thought id ask
<pace_t_zulu> Rocket2DMn: thanks for your help... i have to get going... once again i didn't mean to be spamming everyone with my changes
<Rocket2DMn> no problem pace_t_zulu , here to help
<Rocket2DMn> take it easy man
<DougieRichardson> shane_fagan: i tend to commit groups of patches this early in the release cycle to cut down on mail traffic
<pace_t_zulu> y'all have a good night... maybe i'll be on later
<jgoguen> can someone please review http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26295253/bug352934_add_reboot_note.patch for bug 352934
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 352934 in ubuntu-docs "Reboot needed after domainjoin before login into Gnome as a domain user" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352934
<Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: Ah I understand and plus do you commit a load of changes in one go to cut down too?
<DougieRichardson> shane_fagan:yes
<Shane_Fagan> Ah I understand I just want to get a feel for the process behind changes
<Rocket2DMn> I'm also learning system docs
<Rocket2DMn> speaking of which, nhandler , you around?
<Rocket2DMn> nvm nhandler , we'll do bzr later :)
<nhandler> lol Rocket2DMn
<NMR_1122> Hi, I've found a typo in https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html
<NMR_1122> Is anyone here?
<sommer> NMR_1122: is the typo in the latest version: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/samba-dc.html
<NMR_1122> yes
<NMR_1122> In the section "Primary Domain Controller" step three:
<NMR_1122> add machine script = sudo /usr/sbin/useradd -n -g machines -c Machine -d /var/lib/samba -s /bin/false %u
<NMR_1122> the "n" should be a capital "N"
<sommer> ah, can you file a bug against ubuntu-docs for that?
<NMR_1122> I'm not sure how/where to do that?
<Shane_Fagan> You can file the bug but it will only get fixed in karmic
<Shane_Fagan> And the online docs
<NMR_1122> I just wanted to bring it to someone's attention so the next guy doesn't have to pull his hair out trying to figure out why the Windows computer's won't join the domain....
<NMR_1122> But I don't know who or what to report it to?
<Shane_Fagan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs
<Shane_Fagan> Set up an account and report it there
<Shane_Fagan> We will take it from there
<philip_> launchpad requires user accounts to submit bugs?
<Shane_Fagan> Yep
<philip_> is the reason documented or discussed somewhere? because i'm of the group that feels no barriers should exist for bug submissions
<Shane_Fagan> Well I think its better to have a user account because the person fixing the bug may need extra info.
<persia> philip_, It's been discussed on and off since Ubuntu switched to Launchpad for bugs.  You probably want to chase it in #launchpad, as it's mostly about launchpad not being writable without login, rather than anything in Ubuntu.
<philip_> i see, thanks
<pace_t_zulu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated
<pace_t_zulu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is outdated
<Shane_Fagan> Whats outdated about it?
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: it has references to feisty and hardy... specifically the "Speeding up build-dependency calculation" is now irrelevant because $CHROOTEXEC in "/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi" is already "$CHROOTEXEC /usr/bin/apt-get install -y --force-yes $INSTALL"
<Shane_Fagan> Ah so change it I suppose
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: what do you think i should do regarding older versions?
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: because i am running jaunty
<pace_t_zulu> Shane_Fagan: for example, someone running an LTS may be using pbuilder
<Shane_Fagan> Well if they are for unsupported releases 7.10 or earlier then remove them.
<Shane_Fagan> So leave 8.04 and 8.10 and make one for 9.04 if its needed
<Shane_Fagan> Do we really need the instructions for older versions of songbird? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Songbird
<Shane_Fagan> So should I remove the older versions?
<Shane_Fagan> I found a newer version to add as well sorry for the spam
<Rocket2DMn> You should keep any documentation relevant to supported versions of Ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> currently: Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty
<Rocket2DMn> anything specific to unsupported versions only can go
<Shane_Fagan> I just removed all the older versions and put in the new one
<persia> Shane_Fagan, Do be sure to try to cover all of Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid and Jaunty.  There are still a lot of Dapper users.
<Shane_Fagan> I just linked to the songbird download on getdeb.net
<Rocket2DMn> in cases where old LTS versions (like Dapper) differ significantly from currently supported versions, I usually move the docuemntation for it to a subpage
<persia> That's definitely not the right answer.
<Rocket2DMn> for instance: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu/Dapper
<persia> getdeb is external to Ubnutu, and very much unsupported.
<Shane_Fagan> The original help section had the download from getdeb and it isnt in the repository
<persia> Still!  I thought that was sorted in intrepid.  Oh well.
<Shane_Fagan> Nope it is still very unstable
<Shane_Fagan> persia: There wouldnt be much point in having a help page if it was in the repo
<persia> Well, depends.  Some stuff deserves extra documentation even when it is in the repo.
<Shane_Fagan> Sure I understand that
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-05
<Rocket2DMn> hey, where is the serverguide in the hardy branch?
<Rocket2DMn> nvm found it
<Rocket2DMn> ping nhandler
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, you there?
<Shane_Fagan> Is anyone looking after Bug #187133 ?
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 187133 in ubuntu-docs "The section Listen to online audio streams is out-of-date and requires rework." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187133
<Rocket2DMn> go for it Shane_Fagan
<Shane_Fagan> Sure im just about done now
<Shane_Fagan> Im updating the section on internet radio streams should I include info about vlc?
<Shane_Fagan> Ah ill just mention that other media players support internet radio streams
<Shane_Fagan> Its quite annoying that rhythmbox's future in ubuntu is so uncertain. I added banshee just in case. Can someone review my patch and see if its ok? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26334390/AudioStreams.diff
<nhandler> If I am giving an example command that should be entered in the terminal, how should I denote text that the user needs to input. For example, 'sudo apt-get install <package>'. Should I put the item the user needs to change in <>'s, make it italicized, or something else?
<persia> I always liked the use of monospace sans-serif for that, personally, but I don't know the relevant standards applied within the group.
<Shane_Fagan> mdke: *ping
<Rocket2DMn> hey guys, did i move bug 371927 into the right package?
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 371927 in gnome-user-docs "documentation Section 2.4.2 -  Adding Workspaces" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371927
<Rocket2DMn> it was in ubuntu-docs, but after much frustration not finding what the user was talking about, i downloading the lp:gnome-user-docs and found it there
<Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson: I put up another diff for you :)
<Shane_Fagan> Bug #187133
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 187133 in ubuntu-docs "The section Listen to online audio streams is out-of-date and requires rework." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187133
<DougieRichardson> Shane_fagan: hi, I'll take a look in a mo - in ubuntu-learning meeting
<Shane_Fagan> No bother take your time
<nhandler> What is the proper way to denote a placeholder in a command that the user needs to replace? For example, 'sudo apt-get install <package>'
<DougieRichardson> good question
<DougieRichardson> There isn't an example I can think of off the top of my head, is there anything in the command line section of the advanced topics?
<nhandler> I'll look in a little bit. I have a MOTU Meeting followed by a BT meeting followed by a Wiki FG meeting ;)
<dsas_> Rocket2DMn: Assuming that link is correct then the bug is likely in the workspace-switcher manual itself, that's probably a part of the gnome-panel package iirc
<dsas_> DougieRichardson: Think it can get away with using $USER etc
<DougieRichardson> I'll have a look too but from memory I'm inclined to think we don't use placeholders
<DougieRichardson> dsas_: hi mate, I dunno - people might feel the need to include the $ literal
<dsas_> DougieRichardson: For the command line section that's ok
<dsas_> echo $USER gives your username
<dsas_> Re-reading that, my first line wasn't very clear. sorry
<DougieRichardson> agreed but if you did a sudo apt-get install $package-name it would bomb, wouldn't it?
<dsas_> yes
<dsas_> Sorry, wasn't suggesting it was a good idea to do that. Was just explaining what basic commands did
<DougieRichardson> oh sorry dude, long day
<dsas_> Rocket2DMn: content being able to crash yelp is also a bug
<DougieRichardson> which bug
<dsas_> DougieRichardson: 371927
<dsas_> DougieRichardson: bug 371927
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 371927 in gnome-user-docs "documentation Section 2.4.2 -  Adding Workspaces" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371927
<dsas_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549302 looks related
<ubot4`> Gnome bug 549302 in docs "Window List and Workspace Switch applet help title "Problem Showing Document"" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<DougieRichardson> Is this not a yelp problem?
<DougieRichardson> Although, it might be worth double checking the relevant source, I've crashed yelp before with my text
<Rocket2DMn> dsas_, thanks for the response. there were a couple of packages i looked into for that
<dsas_> Hmm, actually the source validates
<dsas_> /usr/share/gnome/help/workspace-switcher/C/workspace-switcher.xml
<DougieRichardson> Have you cat it - its deprecated
<Rocket2DMn> dsas_, that file is not where the content is
<Rocket2DMn> dsas_, in the gnome2-user-guide source, the content is in gosoverview.xml
<Rocket2DMn> when i run "dpkg -S gosoverview.xml" i see gnome-user-guide
<dsas_> heh, was just reading it, after validating it. Sorry you're right
<Rocket2DMn> but i saw more bugs filed against gnome-user-docs
<Rocket2DMn> although there isnt a gnome-user-docs package in ubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> i guess gnome-user-guide is the right package?
<dsas_> Rocket2DMn: gnome-user-docs is the source package iirc.
<Rocket2DMn> i am horrible about finding my way through documents, i cnat seem to find a logical connection between how stuff appears in yelp and how the docs are laid out
<DougieRichardson> That file does crash yelp
<Rocket2DMn> it always takes me forever to find what im looking for when somebody files a bug
<dsas_> Rocket2DMn: It is often tricky. Specially as the search isn't great either.
<Rocket2DMn> so we're sure it's gnome-user-guide?
<dsas_> yep
<DougieRichardson> looks like it
<Rocket2DMn> lol gnome-user-guide isnt a valid option on lp
<dsas_> gah
<dsas_> it's gnome-user-docs
<Rocket2DMn> how do we know
<dsas_> gnome-user-docs is the source package of gnome2-user-guide, the problem is either with that or with yelp
<Rocket2DMn> how did you find that out?
<Rocket2DMn> gnome2-user-guide isnt installed by default
<Rocket2DMn> only gnome-user-guide
<Rocket2DMn> man after 2 years i have yet to figure this packaging stuff out...
<dsas_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/gnome-user-guide
<dsas_> at the bottom it says the source package.
<dsas_> I think they renamed it from gnome2-user-guide to gnome-user-guide at some stage.
<Rocket2DMn> how did you navigate to that page exactly?
<Rocket2DMn> looks liek they replaced it after gutsy btw
<dsas_> I searched for gnome-user-guide
<dsas_> or something
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks
<dsas_> I tend to search or hack the URLs, browsing LP is a pita
<dsas_> dean@flik:/usr/share/gnome/help$ xmllint --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid user-guide/C/gospanel.xml
<dsas_> validity error : no DTD found!
<dsas_> Document user-guide/C/gospanel.xml does not validate
<dsas_> that is the correct file right2?
<Rocket2DMn> gosoverview.xml
<Shane_Fagan> DougieRichardson:  So have you reviewed my patch?
<dsas_> oh gah, I get validation errors all over that directory, user-guide.xml is the root of it
<dsas_> doesn't seem right, as I can view most of it in yelp
 * dsas_ is confused
<DougieRichardson> Its in one of the files it links to - one sec I think I see it
<Rocket2DMn> ok thanks dsas_ , i'll backtrace yelp later for that
<Rocket2DMn> gotta get food right now though
<DougieRichardson> dsas_:there's an anchor and title tag transposed - just looking for them
<dsas_> hmm, just noticed my name is listed as an author of user-guide/C/user-guide.xml I don't remember adding that
<DougieRichardson> lol
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-06
<DougieRichardson> Shane_Fagan: Looks good, thanks I've committed it.
<DougieRichardson> OK, gotta run - see you all soon
<Rocket2DMn> OK guys, BT Wiki Focus Group meeting time, being held here, since we are really part of the doc team
<Rocket2DMn> Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
<Rocket2DMn> I'm gonna keep this really short
<Rocket2DMn> Now that Jaunty has been released and schedules are starting to open up, we will start the Summer of Documentation
<Rocket2DMn> Last year we focused specifically on the wiki, but this year we will expand into all documentaiton, including system docs
<Rocket2DMn> you can see last year's notes here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2008
<Rocket2DMn> For the wiki, we will focus on getting docs updated for Jaunty
<Rocket2DMn> we will also work on implementing and using the Tag system
<Rocket2DMn> also see here for the doc team's list of tasks - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks
<Rocket2DMn> The doc team recently reorganized their structure, so the open team is now here - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-contributors
<Rocket2DMn> we dont use DocuMENTORS anymore
<Rocket2DMn> that team there is for anybody contributing to documentation, so if you're not on it, you should join it
<Rocket2DMn> any questions so far?
<Rocket2DMn> nothing?
<Rocket2DMn> has everybody here used the wiki?
<Rocket2DMn> I feel like I'm talking to myself
<ds305> We're listening.
<Rocket2DMn> Ok, anybody who currently isn't should join the doc-team mailing list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<TuxPurple> lagging
<Rocket2DMn> Even just listening in on it will give you a good idea about what is going on the with the doc team, this is esp. useful to those interested in system docs
<Rocket2DMn> btw, the docteam homepage is here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<Rocket2DMn> it is being restructured a little bit right now, but it is mostly complete
<Rocket2DMn> Does anybody have any questions about using the wiki? or how exactly to get involved with the docs?
<ds305> I have a procedural question.
<Rocket2DMn> go for it ds305
<ds305> I had to upload about 10 graphics for updating a wiki. Each I assume generated a message to somebody.
<ds305> Is there a way to upload multiples?
<Rocket2DMn> afaik, you need to upload them one at a time.  If uploading attachments mails anybody, it is really limited
<Rocket2DMn> I wouldn't worry about it
 * ds305 Will not worry.
<Rocket2DMn> However, if you are updating a wiki page, please use the PREVIEW button, not SUBMIT until you are finished with your changes.  that is good wiki etiquitte
<Rocket2DMn> Please, ask any questions that you have, now is the best time
<Rocket2DMn> Ok...
<ds305> Is there an approved method for getting old graphics deleted?
<ds305> Sorry for the lag.
<ds305> Normal users don't have access to the delete function.
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Since I'll be eating dinner, I just wanted to let you know that I will be participating in the SOD, mainly with the system documentation
<Rocket2DMn> That is correct ds, you need to talk to somebody on this team - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-wiki-admins
<ds305> TY
<Rocket2DMn> thanks nhandler
<Rocket2DMn> Any other questions?
<Rocket2DMn> The docteam did some sessions during Ubuntu's OpenWeek last week, check out Tuesday's events if you want to see the topics and logs - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<Rocket2DMn> If there are no other questions, we are pretty much done
<ds305> You have 42 minutes remaining....
<Rocket2DMn> You can feel free to contact me at any time that you have questions.  You can also email the docteam mailing list, which I mentioned earlier.
<Rocket2DMn> ds305, i said i was keeping it short :)
<ds305> ;-)
<Rocket2DMn> last call for questions? Going once...
<Rocket2DMn> twice.........
<Rocket2DMn> .......... gone!
<Rocket2DMn> That is all, meeting over, yay!
<ds305> Thanks Rocket.
<TuxPurple> thanks Rocket2DMn :)
<Rocket2DMn> no proble, I'm excited for this summer
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for participating :)
<duanedes1gn> Rocket2DMn: I am working on the Best of Ubntu Community Forum Tutorials.  Someone mentioned there might be interest in having some of these on the wiki.
<duanedes1gn> What do you think?
<Rocket2DMn> hmmm
<Rocket2DMn> those would be best on wiki.ubuntu.com for now i think
<Rocket2DMn> duanedes1gn, do you have a list of guides you are planning to work with?
<duanedes1gn> I have been keeping a list of how tos from the forums
<duanedes1gn> as I get to them I decide"on the fly" if they should be included
<Rocket2DMn> you should contact the original authors to get their permissions to use them.  I don't recall the forum's license, I think it shoud be OK if you dont, but it is nice if you do
 * cprofitt nods
<duanedes1gn> I did write a letter and have been sending it
<Rocket2DMn> are you planning on converting them to wiki format, or just have a main page that lists links?
<duanedes1gn> its in DocBook
<Rocket2DMn> ah right, in docbook
<duanedes1gn> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/boucft/team/gettingpermission
<duanedes1gn> thats the letter I have been using
<Rocket2DMn> cool
<Rocket2DMn> have you gotten responses?
<duanedes1gn> So far just bodhi and I think cprofitt
<Rocket2DMn> btw, you really should have most of that stuff on the team wiki
<Rocket2DMn> we can deal with that later though
<duanedes1gn> ahh. I am working on the project and enjoying it. I just wanted to get it out there that the project is being picked up again
<duanedes1gn> Let me know how it could be usefukk
<duanedes1gn> usefull to the community:)
<duanedes1gn> other than as a package for Yelp. If there is another use for it.
<Rocket2DMn> hm, im not terribly familiar with docbook, but i'm learning
<Rocket2DMn> if youve been working with it, you probably know more than i do now
<duanedes1gn> its....neat
<duanedes1gn> I read moin moin will output to DocBook
<duanedes1gn> http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, not sure how good of a job it does, i think there has been discussion on the mailing list about it
<Rocket2DMn> have you been following, or was it you writing it?
<duanedes1gn> XML Mind is a good WYSIWYG program for DocBook XML
<duanedes1gn> I think that is where I saw it:)
<jimboe1337> why is there wiki.ubuntu.com and also help.ubuntu.com????
<nhandler> jimboe1337: help.ubuntu.com is the official documentation. That comes from the system documentation. wiki.ubuntu.com is used mainly for teams and personal wiki pages
<jimboe1337> nhandler: yeah but what about help.ubuntu.com/community? does that refer to the wiki?
<jimboe1337> wait no it doesn't.
<tig420> hello i was wondering if someone could tell me why ubuntu freezes up on me on the install
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-07
<duanedesign> What is the best license for documentation. I am working on the boucft project. A collection of forum how tos in DocBook format viewable offline in Yelp. I made the package CC-Noncommercial-attribution-sharealike. apparently that is unacceptable on Launchpad
<duanedesign> Not fully understanding licenses as pertaining to documentation any input would be appreciatted
<duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: Do you have any recomendations for which license is best suited for documentaton?
<duanedesign> I chose the Creative Commons Noncommercial-attribution-sharealike. Launchpad sent me a notice saying that they consider this a proprietary license. So I need to pick qa different one.
<pace_t_zulu> duanedesign: GPL is pretty well accepted
<pace_t_zulu> duanedesign: http://www.ubuntu.com/legal
<pace_t_zulu> i assume Rocket2DMn will let us know if he disagrees
<duanedesign> pace_t_zulu:  thank you
<pace_t_zulu> duanedesign: does that answer your question?
<pace_t_zulu> duanedesign: this may help... http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
<pace_t_zulu> here is the GPL v3 license: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt
<duanedesign> pace_t_zulu: yes that helps alot. thank you.
<pace_t_zulu> duanedesign: you are welcome... happy to contribute
<Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, the community doc material is released under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License.
<Rocket2DMn> also see https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/newtoubuntu/C/legal.html
<duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: thank you
<philip_> GPL for docs?
<philip_> the php manual also recently changed to CC
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-08
<yuddie> i need help installing softwares on my sysytem
<nhandler> yuddie: Try #ubuntu for support
<pace_t_zulu> yuddie: try this URL: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Applications
<Rocket2DMn> Hey mdke , when you merged my branch, does the branch go away?
<Rocket2DMn> I dont see it listed anymore on https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc
<Rocket2DMn> Basically what I'm getting at is that I had to upload all 90-something MB of the docs to that branch and I'd prefer not to need to do that every time I have a branch merged
<gartral> i found an out of place comma on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions first paragraph, section 2.3
<Rocket2DMn> lol ok...
<nhandler> Would anyone here be willing to give me a hand with a section of documentation?
<DougieRichardson> which section
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nhandler/ubuntu-doc/ppa
<nhandler> I'm working on a ppa section, but I have a few questions
<DougieRichardson> OK
<DougieRichardson> Jut grabbing your branch
<nhandler> First, if you look in there, you will see that I use italicized text to denote parts of commands that need to be replaced, what is the propper way to do that?
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: I would just use the web interface. It is only a small portion of one file
<DougieRichardson> OK
<DougieRichardson> which file
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: Open up the diff for the most recent revision
<nhandler> add-applications/C/add-applications.xml
<DougieRichardson> I see what you mean. I'm not aware of a convention in this respect
<DougieRichardson> as long as it is clear that something needs to be substituted
<nhandler> Also, most of the content is straight from the old section about adding a repository to /etc/apt/sources.list. Should I merge the two together?
<DougieRichardson> where was the original section?
<DougieRichardson> Ah I see, no - I'd leave them seperate so that you can link to adding a source from other sections.
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: Is there a way to use includes to avoid the duplication of content?
<DougieRichardson> We try to structure things in such a way that we can link to them, so in this case you're saying add a source (click here if you need to know how to do it) sort of thing
<DougieRichardson> For your emphasis problem, mark the section as needing help and we'll raise it on the mailing list - I think we need to add something to the styleguide.
<DougieRichardson> I'm proposing to use the <emphasis> tag to wrap the part to be entered within the <filename> tag in this case.
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:does that help at all?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-09
<j1mc> hello documentors
<bencrisford_> l1mc: hi
<bencrisford_> j1mc: hi *
<j1mc> hi bencrisford_
<ds305> Formatting question for a ubuntu wiki guru ...
<ds305> Making a page for StartUp-Manager. All references to "StartUp" are underlined/linked. How do I prevent this?
<nhandler> ds305: In #ubuntu-news, they told me to add `` between the words (which works). Rocket2DMn told me that adding a ! in front of it is the proper way (I have not tried this)
<ds305> Thanks nhandler , trying it.
<ds305> nhandler: the ! works, appreciate your input.
<nhandler> :)
<nhandler> Shouldn't an APT line in the system docs be in <programlisting> tags instead of <screen> tags?
<DougieRichardson> screen tag is more heavily used, which looks better in Yelp?
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: I don't know. I was just basing that question on what https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/StyleGuide/DocbookConventions says
<DougieRichardson> nhandler: yes I just read that too
<DougieRichardson> If that's the convention then thats best - does it require the removal of whitespace as <screen> does?
<nhandler> IIRC it does
<nhandler> Although for one line of text, it isn't an issue
<DougieRichardson> OK use the <programlisting> tag then.
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: I don't think your proposal for dealing with stuff that the user needs to modify will work. The <emphasis> tag just doesn't make that section of text stand out enough.
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:What do you propose instead?
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: I'm not sure. Does yelp support bold text?
<DougieRichardson> Other than emphasis?
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: A normal <emphasis> for me shows up as italicized in yelp
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:I can't check at the moment I'm on a Windows box.
<nhandler> No problem DougieRichardson. One more question, is <ulink url="http://somesite.com">some text</ulink> the correct syntax for a link to a website? Yelp complains whenever I click on a link made in that fashion
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:What's the erro
<nhandler> Unable to Load Page The requested URI "https://launchpad.net/" is invalid
<bencrisford> nhandler: do an F5 it has been doing that all day
<bencrisford> i just refresh and it normally works
<nhandler> bencrisford: This isn't on Launchpad itself. This is yelp displaying the error in an alert box. Launchpad works fine in FF
<bencrisford> oh, sorry :P
<bencrisford> i just tuned in at that moment
<bencrisford> sox
<bencrisford> soz*
<bencrisford> nhandler: perhaps yelp doesnt support https://?
<nhandler> That could be it bencrisford. Let me try with a normal http
<DougieRichardson> Have you tried using <link> rather than <ulink>
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: No, http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/en/links.html said <ulink> should be used for web links <link> should be used for internal documentation links
<nhandler> bencrisford: Using http did not solve the problem. I'll try using <link> now
<bencrisford> ok
<DougieRichardson> the docbook tdg doesn't restrict link to internal and we don't use it for internal linking at all, we use xref
<bencrisford> i didnt even know there was a tag, all my docbook experience is with spux project so I have no need for internal linking
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: <link> didn't work either
<DougieRichardson> Try the link in Internet/Web Apps/SpamAssassin - I know they worked prior to Jaunty
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: No links are working for me. Do you think me being on a live cd has anything to do with this?
<DougieRichardson> Possibly. There might be a mime type issue
<nhandler> And as a note, serverguide/C/mail.xml uses <ulink> too
<DougieRichardson> ulink is the correct tag
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: When you get a chance, please take a look at my merge proposal
<DougieRichardson> OK
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:Its a pain in the backside but the project I'm working on is Windows only. Closed source and crash prone.
<nhandler> Loads of fun DougieRichardson. Although, you can review merge proposals through email or the LP web interface ;)
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:Didn't know that
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:reading it now
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:typo in line 65
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:you are downloading from the PPA that want.
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: Fixed locally. Anything else before I push the update?
<DougieRichardson> No push the update and I'll review/merge it
<DougieRichardson> Nice page BTW
<nhandler> Thanks DougieRichardson
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:What do you think about the learning idea.
<nhandler> DougieRichardson: I'm still interested in seeing how they go about incorporating other learning programs into it. I've been worried about duplication of efforts from the start
<DougieRichardson> nhandler:I'm worried they don't appreciate the community process and are in for the world's biggest disappointment on the 2nd June
#ubuntu-doc 2009-05-10
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, did you get my message the other day about branches?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't know the answer, I'm afraid - the Launchpad team should know though
<Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks
<Rocket2DMn> does it seem to you that the branch goes away though?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: the branch isn't listed under "ACtive Branches", but you can see it if you choose branches with "Any status"
<Rocket2DMn> interesting, I'll check later to see if I'm able to still use it, and if it will re-appear as active
<mdke> I suppose it should be active again if you push to it
<mdke> now that it has been merged after your merge proposal, it is marked as not active anymore
<mdke> that makes sense, in a way
<Rocket2DMn> makes sense to me :)
<Rocket2DMn> I'm working on a wiki page, so I'll test it out later
<Rocket2DMn> thanks for looking into that
<mdke> np
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, the changes i have in my branch - have they actually been merged with ubuntu-doc now? so if i change my branch, the work isnt lost?
<Rocket2DMn> i would like to just sync that branch with ubuntu-doc again
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: yes, they should have been merged, although I think it was only one bug dealt with in the merge proposal, no?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: anyway, if you sync your branch with ubuntu-doc, bzr should tell you any differences that exist (bzr status)
<Rocket2DMn> yes, it was only one bug
<mdke> ok
<Rocket2DMn> i did a bzr bind to ubuntu-doc and i can see a diff
<Rocket2DMn> if i update, i will have what is in ubuntu-doc
<Rocket2DMn> I assume if I do that, then bind back to my branch and push, my branch will be the same as ubuntu-doc
<mdke> I don't think you should use bind if you aren't able to commit to the ubuntu-doc branch
<Rocket2DMn> oh, is there a better way?
<mdke> bind implies that any changes made to your local branch will be synched with the online one, and vice versa
<mdke> if you're not able to push to the online one, it doesn't work, I don't think
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, i was just binding to ubuntu-doc, downloading the changes, then binding back to my branch
<Rocket2DMn> yeah i made that mistake, i twouldnt let me push
<Rocket2DMn> is there a better way to get the updates in ubuntu-doc without binding to it?
<mdke> you can just do "bzr pull lp:ubuntu-doc"
<mdke> or bzr merge
<Rocket2DMn> hmm i got a bzr error on pull
<mdke> what was it?
<Rocket2DMn> something very long
<mdke> go on then
<Rocket2DMn> its something with the remote server, hold up
<Rocket2DMn> http://paste.ubuntu.com/169051/
<mdke> crickey
<mdke> you'll have to break the lock
<Rocket2DMn> i know, it wont let me
<mdke> try bzr break-lock lp-139944964118224
<mdke> twice
<Rocket2DMn> ok i think i got the lock, let me try to pull again
<mdke> you need to break it twice
<Rocket2DMn> ok, i did
<Rocket2DMn> why twice?
<mdke> dunno, a bug in LP, I think
<mdke> unless it's fixed
<Rocket2DMn> ok, its pulling now
<Rocket2DMn> dang, i got the same error
<mdke> I think you have run into a bzr error maybe
<Rocket2DMn> hehe, a bizarre error
<mdke> hah
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well lets try merge instead
<Rocket2DMn> how do I merge from ubunt-doc if im bound to my own branch?
<mdke> it should work fine
<Rocket2DMn> just "bzr merge lp:ubuntu-doc"?
<mdke> yup
<Rocket2DMn> hm, says my working tree as uncommitted changes
<Rocket2DMn> let me try to commit
<Rocket2DMn> oh, i guess b/c of stuff i've already done, I'm up to dat enow
<mdke> cool
<Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , now it shows back on the code page on LP, shows the bug and merge proposal icon
<mdke> ok
<mdke> that's not a great commit message ;)
<mdke> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rocket2dmn/ubuntu-doc/my-ubuntu-doc/revision/300
<Rocket2DMn> lol sorry
<mdke> are those your changes or are they stephanie's?
<Rocket2DMn> not mine
<mdke> hmm
<Rocket2DMn> what i really want is to just reset the branch so that it has no history
<Rocket2DMn> without having to recreate it and upload all the docs again
<mdke> if I were you, I would just track the ubuntu-doc branch locally without pushing your changes to Launchpad
<Rocket2DMn> as far as just making patches goes, youre right.  The point of doing this was as much an exercise in learning bzr as making doc changes
 * mdke nods
<mdke> I think the way that the bzr/LP workflow is intended to operate is that you push a branch to Launchpad which fixes a specific issue
<Rocket2DMn> I agree, but why do I have to upload all the ubuntu-doc to make a single change with bzr? there must be another way
<mdke> not currently, I don't think
<Rocket2DMn> I would think that I should be able to grab a branch from ubuntu-doc without having to upload the entire main branch again, it should be able to mirror itself on LP
<mdke> there is discussion of automatically creating a bzr branch from a bundle attached to a bug report
<mdke> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg05000.html
<mdke> the other thing you can do to save time is to use a shared repository
<mdke> that should speed things up a lot
<mdke> unfortunately, Launchpad doesn't support them
<mdke> so pushing will always take as long :(
<Rocket2DMn> hmmm
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well I guess I'll remove my branch then
<Rocket2DMn> how can i destroy it?
<mdke> mark it as abandoned, I guess
<Rocket2DMn> how do i do that?
<mdke> ah, you can delete it, if you like
<mdke> on the main LP page, there is a trashcan by the branch title
<Rocket2DMn> ok, lets see what happens
<Rocket2DMn> maybe i should roll back instead
<Rocket2DMn> so that it doesnt break links
<mdke> hmm?
<Rocket2DMn> you should be able to roll back to a revision, right?
<mdke> yes
<Rocket2DMn> maybe we can get it so the branch remains, but its not active
<mdke> you can mark it as abandoned then
<Rocket2DMn> ah there's how to do that
<mdke> next to the trashcan, use the edit button
<Rocket2DMn> there is an option to mark it as Merged
<Rocket2DMn> i uncommitted the "none" commented push i believe
<Rocket2DMn> ok, so now its showing the 299 commit version, as it was before
<Rocket2DMn> i'll mark it as merged again
<Rocket2DMn> hah! that did the trick!
<mdke> nice
<Rocket2DMn> alright, thanks for the help mdke , this has been enlightening
<mdke> for me too :)
<Rocket2DMn> off the gym and to get some food, see ya later
<mdke> have fun
#ubuntu-doc 2010-05-10
<Kangarooo> hello can anyone explain in this page where is written TODO ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<godbyk> Kangarooo: Open Synaptic, find the package you're trying to debug (let's pretend it's called xyzzy), then see if there's a package named xyzzy-dbg.  If there is a package named xyzzy-dbg, install that package.
<Kangarooo> and only if not then do all what's in that wiki? ok thanks
<godbyk> Kangarooo: Correct.
<Kangarooo> yes I found package for what crashed and how now to use that? installed but have no icon anywhere
<godbyk> Once you've installed the package, you can just run the same program again.
<Kangarooo> gdb thunar ?
<godbyk> It replaces the existing program with one that has extra code to output debug info.
<Kangarooo> and that will help update reported bug report?
<godbyk> It will generate more information that is helpful to the developers reading your bug report.
<godbyk> Did the program crash?  Or was there some other problem?
<Kangarooo> crash happened for thunar and report is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/578275 so since sometimes even pictures and video is not helping get bug faster done I want to try more deeper info giving so how with this gdb can I add more info to this bug?
<ubot4> Kangarooo: Error: Bug #578275 is private.
<Kangarooo> is it private couse there is sensitive info? couse I reported full bug report 48mb
<godbyk> If thunar crashes again, link that debug info to the same bug report. It will add more information for the developers.
<Kangarooo> godbyk: but how to link that? couse if a bug report pops up then pressing send I can make new bug but to existing its possible only if using apport-collect bugnumber
<godbyk> Hmm.. that's a good question.
<godbyk> You could generate a new bug and mark it as a duplicate of the existing bug.
<godbyk> Then add a comment to the existing bug saying there is more info in the new bug.
<Kangarooo> well yes but becouse of that many are mad. I've also reported that ubuntu-bug packagename only gives option to ad info to new bug only and that only apport-collect bugnumber adds info to existing bug. but ok that's the only option right now
<Kangarooo> and becouse now this package is installed it will give more info to only next crash? or also to bug report- also if crash didn't happen? and what kind of info?
<godbyk> I'm afraid I don't know, then.  You might as in #ubuntu.
<godbyk> With the dbg package installed, it will only give extra info on the next crash.
<Kangarooo> ok ill maybe then make a new gobby document to with this all raw info to later it would be a new wiki with better info or should I edit wiki even if I don't corret how to write english?
<godbyk> I'm not sure what's best to do there.  Sorry.
<Kangarooo> ok ill make new gobby that's safer
#ubuntu-doc 2010-05-11
<petesant> I upgraded to 10.04..  I need the volume mixer that is missing.  Any Ideaes?
<brianherman> !last philbull
<ubot4> Factoid 'last philbull' not found
<brianherman> !last
<ubot4> Factoid 'last' not found
<brianherman> Hey mewshi! Have you heard anything from phil bull about the ubuntu manual?
<mewshi> No, I haven't
<mewshi> not to my knowledge, anyway
<godbyk> brianherman: What are you looking for?
<brianherman> Oh I think I found it
<brianherman> I thought that phil would send me an email about the manual or something
<brianherman> but there is this link that has everything on his previous email.
<godbyk> ah, okay.
<mewshi> Can you give me said link?
<brianherman> mewshi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
<godbyk> brianherman: You might be better off with the more recent version of that info: http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved
<godbyk> The wiki is mostly obsolete now.
<brianherman> oops
<mewshi> What's going on?
<brianherman> I think you are just supposed to pick something and work on it.
 * godbyk is confused.
<brianherman> godbyk: ?
<godbyk> brianherman: Did you need any help with something related to the ubuntu manual project?
<brianherman> oh no
<brianherman> i am fine
<godbyk> Ah, okay. Just checking. :)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-05-12
<j1mc> the ubuntu manual seems to be a big hit amongst folks at uds.
<j1mc> i've heard mark mention it several times.  (i'm not at uds...)
<j1mc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<j1mc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-ubuntu-support-and-learning-center
<j1mc> mdke: ^^
#ubuntu-doc 2010-05-15
 * VaioStyle Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!!New BranD!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIOÂ® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBookÂ® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-09
<shaunm> ok, that's an easy fix
<Rocket2DMn> how will these pages behave in browsers that dont have full support for html5?
<shaunm> the pages don't use much html5. I toyed with using new tags like nav and section. I like them in general, but the support wasn't there
<shaunm> mostly, it's the video tag
<shaunm> (and audio, if you happen to use that)
<Rocket2DMn> for us its just mostly text with css
<shaunm> some years down the line, I'll probably start replacing some divs with the more semantic html5 elements, but not now
<shaunm> not until there's decent mainstream browser support
<Rocket2DMn> well i guess my question for now is how do i get it to declare the doctype
<Rocket2DMn> i got it in there but its screwing up the page
<jbicha> ooh, docs team gets a shoutout
<jbicha> from Mark at UDS
<DarkwingDuck> Yay doc team! :D
<mdke> what does he say?
<DarkwingDuck> He thank the doc team for the hard work in getting gnome3 docs and unity docs
<mdke> cool
<mdke> wow, Launchpad's automatic translation exports seems rather cool
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: You'll have to let me know how that goes.
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: will do
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: thanks mate
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: I will activate it for kubuntu-docs too if nothing goes horribly wrong with ubuntu-docs, which it seems not to have done
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: thanks!
<mdke> -> work
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: where are you located in this blue globe?
<j1mc> so mark mentioned the docs team during his opening talk
<j1mc> the funny thing was that i couldn't sleep, and so i was downstairs on my laptop at 5-something am
<j1mc> and he came around to have coffee
<j1mc> and we talked there.
<jbicha> oh no, well there will be a video of the talk
<j1mc> jbicha: oh no?
<jbicha> I mean, that's too bad you missed his talk
<jbicha> about companies and his vegetable garden
<j1mc> oh, i saw his talk
<jbicha> oh I misunderstood, never mind
<jbicha> way to catch him first thing in the morning! that's good advertising :-)
<j1mc> :)
<Rickyboy107> Hello, i want to join the Documentation team
<Rickyboy107> if i can ofcourse
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: london
<geekosopher> jjesse: any problem with bug 774759 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 774759 in kubuntu-docs "Error in kubuntu-docs-office string #16" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774759
<jjesse> geekosopher i can look tonight
<geekosopher> jjesse: ok, good night :)
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha ka po'e alau (Hello everyone)
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-10
<mdke> hey dpm
<dpm> hey mdke, I was writing a reply to your last e-mail, but the first UDS sessions are about to start and I could not finish it
<mdke> dpm: no problem, things must be busy!
<dpm> yeah :)
<mdke> dpm: one option i guess is to disable translations entirely in the Ubuntu source package, if Launchpad can't be made to work. Let's see how it goes
<dpm> in short, please don't change the template name in Ubuntu, rather add the ubuntu-docs- prefix to the upstream templates, but I'll explain in more detail some time later on todey
<mdke> ouch
<mdke> that's a pain
<mdke> ok, I'll wait for your email - there is no rush for this
<dpm> ok, let's talk then
<mdke> have a good day
<dpm> you too, thanks!
<mdke> hey j1mc
<mdke> nice work pimping the team to Mark :)
<j1mc> mdke: heh :) thanks
<DarkwingDuck> mdke: heads up...
<mdke> caught up on your sleep yet?
<DarkwingDuck> Jono in the community roundtable is talking about making documentation tean a focus for 11.10
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<mdke> good stuff
<DarkwingDuck> Changed my sleeping so i can attend UDS remotly
<DarkwingDuck> midnight to 9a
<DarkwingDuck> whoot
<mdke> any details?
<DarkwingDuck> 90% has to do with the wiki
<j1mc> mdke: yes. slept fine last night
<mdke> good
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: you rock
<mdke> which wiki?
<DarkwingDuck> and weeding out bad/outdated docs
<DarkwingDuck> both.
<j1mc> mdke: he wants to have calls with us
<j1mc> but is primarily focused on wiki during this discussion
<mdke> fine
<DarkwingDuck> I know I could use some people in kubuntu-docs... we lost nixternal
<j1mc> one of my goals is to get together a strategy document for the team, similar to what xubuntu has
<DarkwingDuck> We put up a ToDo list with the Kubuntu Dev todo.
<DarkwingDuck> for each cycle
<j1mc> and i suggested it would be good to include wiki stuff in that strategy document
<j1mc> mdke: #ubuntu-uds-kazinczy
<mdke> I need to leave for work shortly, so can't join. But obviously happy to follow up
<j1mc> sounds good
<j1mc> i will send an email out to the list following up on stuff from yesterday
<DarkwingDuck> thanks j1mc
<DarkwingDuck> :D This is why I like UDS
<j1mc> i want to make sure that everyone is in the loop and that decisions aren't made in a vacuum.
<mdke> that's much appreciated
<YoBoY> hi
<YoBoY> starting to study (again) if I can generate and put the system doc online in french
<YoBoY> there is a new theme in progress ?
<jbicha> YoBoY: um, not sure I understand your question
<jbicha> but we did switch to mallard and our output is different on help.ubuntu.com
<jbicha> switched to mallard from docbook
<jbicha> our website code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/help.ubuntu.com I believe
<UndiFineD> jbicha, how would I get started in mallard ?
<jbicha> the specs & a tutorial are at http://projectmallard.org/
<UndiFineD> so raw xml writing
<jbicha> right but I think it's simpler than docbook
<UndiFineD> hmmm, lets see if I could change that
<YoBoY> jbicha: I can see I haven't the same result..., thanks I look at it on my next pause
<YoBoY> jbicha: the link you gave me before is the doc presently here : https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/index.html ?
<YoBoY> ok, I see, this branch is the generated/corrected content, the exact content actualy online, right ?
<YoBoY> but I'm looking for how to generate that content in another locale
<jbicha> I don't really know how the localization works
<YoBoY> the make all on the natty branch don't seems to create the pages actualy online, but I can be wrong
<jbicha> what do you mean it doesn't create the online pages?
<YoBoY> seems the natty branch only contain the ubuntu-classic documentation
<YoBoY> (and server guide)
<jbicha> oh, then you want https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty
<jbicha> I believe we'll be reverting back to ubuntu-docs for oneiric but modifing gnome-user-docs in place was the easiest for natty
<YoBoY> jbicha: it's really complicate to find the right branhc ^^" the repository is a mess and the wiki is so outdated...
<YoBoY> the system documentation is a great documentation, our translators want it online because they work on it (I understand that) and I think this doc can be a good entry point to Ubuntu
<jbicha> right, the wiki is about a month or so out of date but there were big changes
<YoBoY> yes
<jbicha> and some docs are still in docbook so we can't just remove it all entirely
<jbicha> but updating the wiki is a top priority for us
<YoBoY> there is a session about the doc on the uds ?
<jbicha> so the translations should be available to work on under gnome-user-docs
<jbicha> there was a session yesterday
<jbicha> I think there's another but I'd have to dig through the schedule
<YoBoY> crap, I haven't seen it (or perhaps don't had time to attend ^^")
<YoBoY> I look myself, thanks :)
<jbicha> this is the one from yesterday: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-ubuntu-docs-strategy/
<YoBoY> thanks jbicha seems a great session
<jbicha> j1mc: any more docs sessions? YoBoy was asking
<YoBoY> we can talk also outside sessions :)
<DarkwingDuck> YoBoY: we are having a Kubuntu Docs review session on thursday
<YoBoY> DarkwingDuck: if I don't have another session (for now I don't) I'll go :)
<DarkwingDuck> YoBoY: I wont be there... I'll be leading it remotly.
<YoBoY> ok
<j1mc> jbicha: yes, there will be one tomorrow
<j1mc> and one on wedensday
<j1mc> BUT ...
<j1mc> oops
<jbicha> lol
<j1mc> meant one on wednesday
<j1mc> and thursday
<j1mc> but there are other docs-sessions that aren't just about ubuntu docs
<j1mc> so people should feel free to check those out, too
<YoBoY> j1mc: I'll try
<j1mc> YoBoY: cool
<head_victim> j1mc: as far as spruiking the wiki goes, you should try and find someone to lean on to get bug 668530 resolved, it's still ongoing and makes the wiki very difficult to use. Nice summary for those of us not able to attend though, thanks
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 668530 in ubuntu-website "Wiki - 500 Internal Server Error" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668530
<j1mc> head_victim: thanks - i'll take a look.  :)
<head_victim> j1mc: No problems, it's one of the things I butt heads against on a regular basis
<j1mc> head_victim: yeah, the performance of the wiki came up in the community round table today
<j1mc> :/
<head_victim> I understand there are finite resources available for these sorts of things but just thought I'd mention it before you went promoting it too hard
<mdke> head_victim: I think that problem relates to the team wiki rather than the help wiki though. It's known and the sysadmins are working on it - updates are available on ubuntu-news.org (e.g. http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/04/07/another-wiki-ubuntu-com-upgrade-update/)
<MrChrisDruif> I'm offline, see y'all tomorrow :) Aloha!
<Rocket2DMn> hey shaunm , you around?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-11
<shaunm> Rocket2DMn: what's up?
<Rocket2DMn> hey shaunm
<Rocket2DMn> i was looking at the html validation again
<Rocket2DMn> i wasnt able this weekend to get it to work via XSLT
<Rocket2DMn> i did write a quick sed command to insert it though
<shaunm> Rocket2DMn: just the DOCTYPE and the spurious language attribute on the script element?
<shaunm> or are there more problems?
<Rocket2DMn> this is just for adding the doctype, doesnt touch the rest of the document
<Rocket2DMn> here it is:
<Rocket2DMn> sed -i build/*.html -e '1i\
<Rocket2DMn> \<!DOCTYPE html\>'
<shaunm> nice
<Rocket2DMn> i havent committed it to ubuntu-docs yet, but i think i will soon unless i see reason that it might cause problems
<Rocket2DMn> you dont see anything wrong or dangerous with that, do you?
<Captainkrtek> hey guys
<Captainkrtek> has the meeting day been decided yet?
<Captainkrtek> hey jbicha
<jbicha> hi
<Captainkrtek> how have you been?
<jbicha> life's chaotic, but otherwise ok
<Captainkrtek> sorry to hear
<Captainkrtek> anything project wise I can do to help?
<jbicha> well we're trying to plan what we'll be doing for this next release cycle
<Captainkrtek> still learning the process, but if you need something done Im sure I can do it
<jbicha> so there's lots of things to work on
<jbicha> we need to make sure we get the right topics covered in the right amounts for the desktop guide
<Captainkrtek> anywhere this is all written? we have a wiki?
<jbicha> our wiki needs updating so new contributors (or older ones who haven't messed with this mallard stuff) can
<Captainkrtek> yeah
<jbicha> figure out what's going on and how to help out
<Captainkrtek> I think I might write up that
<Captainkrtek> do I have permissions to edit that?
<jbicha> yes, anyone can edit the wikis
<Captainkrtek> got mixed up with the other one
<jbicha> we still need to keep the docbook stuff around as there are still docs using that
<Captainkrtek> yeah
<Captainkrtek> I could do two parts
<Captainkrtek> New and Old
<Captainkrtek> hey jbicha could I get a testimonial for being a guide on the Ubuntu Beginners team?
<jbicha> hmm?
<Captainkrtek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
<Captainkrtek> need a few testimonials to apply
<Captainkrtek> jbicha, ^
<Captainkrtek> if you could that'd be great, if not it's okay as well :)
<jbicha> yeah, I can write something for you, I'm just trying to read up on what the team does & how it works
<Captainkrtek> we provide support for new members
<jbicha> like this one: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2011-May/002027.html
<Captainkrtek> well that guy isnt a new user heh
<Captainkrtek> more like people who are new to the community and want to contribute
<jbicha> suggestion 2 is that the process for membership be overhauled
<Captainkrtek> but are not sure where to start
<Captainkrtek> yeah, Im not sure of the process
<Captainkrtek> just following it for now
<MrChrisDruif> And I'm off again. See y'all soon (about 30 mins or so). Aloha!
<Captainkrtek> aloha!
<Captainkrtek> hello dpm
<mdke> hey dpm
<mdke> dpm: I can't change the template names I don't think. It will be a bit of a pain to get an admin to change the template name for each release. I wonder if we need to figure out a different solution to this
<mdke> dpm: in the future, the template name will be "ubuntu-help", so perhaps that is descriptive enough that we won't need to add the prefix. So maybe the workaround only applies to past releases
<dpm> hey mdke
<mdke> hey :)
<mdke> just seen your longer email
<mdke> thanks for that explanation
<dpm> no worries :)
<dpm> mdke, if I'm not mistaken, the template name, once set in LP, will "stick" for all future series if the path of the pot template  in the source code does not change
<dpm> so it should be a one off effort
 * mdke nods
<mdke> hopefully it won't matter for future series anyway with the "ubuntu-help" template name
<dpm> mdke, so there will be a single 'ubuntu-help' template?
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> a bit like the "gnome-help" template in gnome-user-docs
<mdke> or rather, exactly like it
<dpm> regarding the template names for the current docs, I can change them, so I'll look into it
<mdke> many thanks
<mdke> I guess we should remove the package link first?
<mdke> I'll do that
<dpm> ok
<dpm> give me a few mins, I need to finish off an e-mail
<mdke> ok, that's done for Natty and Maverick. I can't remove the package link for Lucid, so we'll have to ask a Launchpad admin to do it
<mdke> bbiab
<mdke> dpm: I've changed the translation domains back to remove the prefix for all the natty templates
<mdke> dpm: I have to leave for work now but I'll be following email, thanks for your help again
<dpm> ok, thanks mdke!
<j1mc> hi all
<DarkwingDuck> Hey j1mc
<Captainkrtek> hello cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> Captainkrtek, Hi.
<Captainkrtek> oh also jbicha I recorded some of the tas webcast last night: http://rootzwiki.com/UDS/tas_wed.wav
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-12
<Logan_> Should https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingFlock be deleted?  That browser is no longer in development, and the homepage doesn't have any download links anymore.
<MrChrisDruif> Logan_; Maybe a note in the top with this comment?
<Logan_> Hmm, I guess that would work.
<MrChrisDruif> Logan_; There are always unseen links to a page, so don't delete a page suddenly...
<Logan_> I don't have deletion rights, of course.
<MrChrisDruif> Can't explain it properly atm...tired/bit tipsy
<Logan_> I would just tag it for deletion. :P
<zkriesse> Logan_: Tagging it for deletion would be awesome thanks
<Logan_> I don't seem to have consensus for that. :P
<Logan_> But you're part of the editing group, so...
<Logan_> zkriesse: Done.
<zkriesse> Lol
<Logan_> :P
<MrChrisDruif> Tagging for deletion....okay
<Captainkrtek> anyone around?
<mdke> anyone know how I can test yelp in another language without logging out and back in with the other language?
<mdke> in the old days "LANG=it yelp" was good enough but it doesn't seem to work now
<mdke> ah, it's "LANGUAGE=it yelp"
<mdke> nm
<jbicha> mdke: I had trouble with that today too
<jbicha> oh, LANGUAGE isn't intuitive
<DarkwingDuck> As a KDE user, how is Yelp as a full program?
<jbicha> what do you mean, yelp works, right?
<mdke> DarkwingDuck: I haven't tried it on kde
<DarkwingDuck> We don't use Yelp over on our side.
<DarkwingDuck> But, we are having issues with KHelpCenter and are trying to... figure out what to do about it.
<DarkwingDuck> And dammit, it wont run without a bunch of extras i dont' want to install... Hmmz.
<mdke> I think a lot of stuff has been stripped out of yelp in version 3 and put in a cross desktop compatible backend
<mdke> so it wouldn't be too hard to develop a non-gtk frontend, I'll bet
<DarkwingDuck> It's  built off of GTK isn't it?
<mdke> but shaunm is the guy to talk to
<DarkwingDuck> Well, with KDE being Qt and there seems to be a push for Ubuntu to start heading to the Qt toolkit
<jbicha> I like how yelp & mallard works for the most part, khelpcenter just seems more out of date
<jbicha> but it would take a lot of people to agree to overhaul khelpcenter
<DarkwingDuck> We ahve th people and we are going to start doing it.
<MrChrisDruif> So yelp is a back end which currently only has a gtk frond end?
<MrChrisDruif> Still one package I think, so that would need to be cut loose and a Qt front end attached as well
<jbicha> yes, I'm sure shaunm would love to have an alternate viewer for mallard
<jbicha> & it's good for everyone to have KDE & GNOME move closer together in this
<mdke> MrChrisDruif: there are some things in separate packages, like yelp-xsl for example
 * mdke -> work
<j1mc> hey all - the docs session went pretty well earlier today. the drupal platform seems pretty neat, and it can do some pretty neat stuff.
<j1mc> we had david planella there, as well as a server guy and matthew nuuzum (sp?) from the group at canonical that handles drupal stuff.
<j1mc> they asked some good questions, and gave some good feedback.
<j1mc> but we need to evaluate this as a team and see if it could work with our requirements and workflow.
<j1mc> the server guy was david walker
<j1mc> jbicha: howdy
<shaunm> MrChrisDruif, DarkwingDuck: I'm totally open to discussing ways more code can be shared. yelp's internals are in a separate library, libyelp, although it's not packages separately yet
<shaunm> libyelp is a glib/gtk library though. it's conceivable it could be split into two libraries, a no-toolkit libyelp and a libyelp-gtk
<shaunm> then a libyelp-qt could be developed
<MrChrisDruif> I think KDE users would appreciate that :)
<shaunm> I don't know what kde's stance on glib is though. the thought of writing a C library without glib makes me shudder
<j1mc> whois MrChrisDruif
<j1mc> hehe
 * MrChrisDruif doesn't know that either,,,,, shaunm 
<j1mc> hi shaunm
<j1mc> hi DarkwingDuck
<j1mc> and hi MrChrisDruif
<MrChrisDruif> j1mc; I'm me :)
<j1mc> :)
<DarkwingDuck> Hey guys
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha DarkwingDuck
<MrChrisDruif> :)
<DarkwingDuck> I'm getting sleepy LOL
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: there was a Kubuntu docs session, but it was scheduled at the same time as my last docs session, so i missed it.
<shaunm> or, you know, maybe it's ok to have separate libraries. we can still share the rendering code in yelp-xsl. there's nothing gnome-specific about that, except that it's hosted on gnome.org
<DarkwingDuck> j1mc: it was more internal review and todos for the kubuntu guys
<DarkwingDuck> shaunm: I'll bring it up with the Kubunut guys... we are just sick of KDE HElp Center
<shaunm> DarkwingDuck: while you're at it: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2010-April/011443.html
<shaunm> nixternal and I put that together. it was a shared effort from the outset. but then he kind of disappeared for a while
<DarkwingDuck> nixternal is fairly gone these days.
<DarkwingDuck> I've taken over for him in Kubuntu... i don't know who is doing KDE upstream stuff these days
<DarkwingDuck> shaunm: I remember when this happened... I'll review again.
<shaunm> is Cornelius still doing khelpcenter work?
<shaunm> KDE has a SoC student doing khelpcenter work this year, right?
<shaunm> actually, wasn't he going to UDS. j1mc, weren't you meeting up with him?
<DarkwingDuck> shaunm: I know that apachelogger was talking about getting some things.
<DarkwingDuck> changed in khelpcenter
<j1mc> i have talked with him very briefly, and he attended the docs goals session
<j1mc> but we haven't talked extensively, and our sessions overlapped today
<shaunm> ok
<DarkwingDuck> Okay, I've been up all night. I'm crashing
<j1mc> i do want to still talk with apachelogger, though.
<j1mc> ok, i found him in kubuntu-devel, and we're making arrangements to meet
<shaunm> excellent
<shaunm> (damn hackfests getting in the way of him coming to open help :P)
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> shaunm: the provonix guy is interested in hosting another openhelp conference in europe. ??
<shaunm> he is?
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> would that be cool w/ you?
<j1mc> he said he's trying to do a virtual session at your conference, too.
<shaunm> yeah, he said something about friday evening, which I suppose is his evening, which is our mid-day
<shaunm> the conference isn't even really happening at that point
<j1mc> oh, like... it hasn't started yet?
<shaunm> and we kind of decided not to do a virtual session with mairin (who I really wanted to have there)
<shaunm> there's a reception friday at 7. that's the start of the conference
<j1mc> right
<shaunm> but the reception is just a reception. there's no projector and screens and seats
<j1mc> yeah
<j1mc> plus, reception =! conference talk time
<shaunm> but look, if he's going to do this presentation friday US-mid-day anyway, and it's going to be streamed, I have no problem mentioning that to the OH attendees in an email
<j1mc> well, i'll let you two iron that out.
<shaunm> "Getting in early? Go sit in the lounge with your laptop and watch this webcast."
<shaunm> I'll email him
<j1mc> with mairin ... we were asking her, but here is someone who really wants to do it.
<shaunm> I'm kind of concerned about having a second conference though
<j1mc> it would be great if we could accommodate him somehow
<j1mc> ok
<j1mc> what is concerning?
<shaunm> not trying to be possessive. it's just that the turnout is lower than I'd hoped, and I think with good hype this year, turnout next year can get up to 50 or so. but if there's a second conference, most people won't do both. so that splits the audience
<j1mc> yeah... that's a good point. i can understand that.
<shaunm> I would actually love for there to be two well-attended conferences. I just don't think, at this point, that two would be well-attended
<j1mc> i need to go to apachelogger's thing, but i'll be back on in a little bit
<jbicha> shaunm: are you still here
<jbicha> we had a help question in #ubuntu-uds-dery
<shaunm> jbicha: sure, what's the question?
<jbicha> they were just wondering about http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gGsetttk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html
<jbicha> well that link doesn't work
<jbicha> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html
<jbicha> I wasn't really following exactly what they were discussing
<shaunm> well, it's somewhat technical, has to do with how programmers construct buttons and menus for help
<shaunm> right now, when a developer creates a help menu, he populates it statically with some entries. usually "Contents" (ugh) and "About"
<shaunm> with the GHelp API, he'd create a help menu, but wouldn't put anything in it. instead, he'd say "the URI for my help is help:gnome-help, and call this menu 'my-main-menu'"
<jbicha> and Ubuntu likes to add the launchpad stuff
<shaunm> then, in our mallard files, we would tag pages. so for any page we want to show up in that menu, we'd add <facet:tag key="g-help-tag" values="my-main-menu"/>
<jbicha> I think part of why they were interested is they would rather push 1 patch to gtk than dozens of patches to different apps
<shaunm> when you launch the app, the help document is read (probably from a cache, for performance), and the menus are populated automatically
<jbicha> you can talk to them if you like, I'm not really a decisionmaker :-)
<shaunm> ah, I see
<shaunm> it's conceivable the help menu could also have a way to automatically add something static like that
<jbicha> context-sensitive help would be nice but I don't see the context of the Help menu changing that much
<jbicha> yeah, they just want to be able to insert the program's name so that users can click a button
<jbicha> to report a problem and it automatically starts the report-bug stuff for that app
<shaunm> actually, I think there's a lot of potential places to change the tag on the help menu
<shaunm> there's also a help button in this API. and that could change for e.g. a button in a tabbed dialog
<shaunm> for menus, consider a program like evolution, a shell for like five different programs
<shaunm> or a word processor. it could add a tag for table operations if your cursor happens to be in a table, for example
<jbicha> oh ok
<jbicha> I'm just used to that never changing :_)
<jbicha> :-)
<shaunm> yeah, I like changing everything
<UndiFineD> hey guys, the wiki supports using an alternative editor right ? how about reworking fckeditor to produce mallard ?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-13
<j1mc> hey all
<Captainkrtek> hey j1mc
<j1mc> hey Captainkrtek
<Captainkrtek> how are you?
<j1mc> i am well
<j1mc> i went to bed really early, and woke up way beyond really early
<j1mc> it's 3:20am here
<Captainkrtek> oh wow
<Captainkrtek> where are you located?
<j1mc> i'm in budapest for uds
<Captainkrtek> oh nice! :D
<Captainkrtek> wish I could be there
<j1mc> i wish more docs people were here, too.
<j1mc> maybe next time
<Captainkrtek> I will be at the next one in Florida
<j1mc> cool! do you live in florida?
<Captainkrtek> I live in Seattle
<Captainkrtek> but I can fly anywhere in the world for free :)
<Captainkrtek> I can also fly friends, maybe I could fly out a doc member some time
<j1mc> why can you fly anywhere for free?
<Captainkrtek> family member is a pilot
<Captainkrtek> great deals :D
<j1mc> cool. :)
<Captainkrtek> hows UDS?
<andrejz> hello! i have a question about natty documentation
<andrejz> i am wondering if this teplate is being used
<andrejz> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gnome-user-docs/+pots/gnome-user-docs-user-guide
<andrejz> if that is not the case i would disable it, so translators don't waste resources on the wrong template
<andrejz> hello, is anyone from the doc team here, i would like to report a bug in natty documentation
<andrejz> In the .pot template there is a string - In many apps, you can increase the text size at any time by pressing <keyseq><key>Ctrl</key><key>+</key></keyseq>. To reduce the text size, press <keyseq><key>Ctrl</key><key>+</key></keyseq>.
<andrejz> Probably there ought to me - the second time instead of +
<MrChrisDruif> andrejz; Yes, I would think so :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ctrl + + or Ctrl + +...not much difference :P
<andrejz> should i also report it on launchpad or is this enought
<MrChrisDruif> andrejz; Might be better to put it on launchpad, I don't know who's active who can change it...
<andrejz> ok, sure
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-14
<Captainkrtek> hey geekosopher
<geekosopher> yes Captainkrtek
<UndiFineD> the key in some other language could look like ktrl
<UndiFineD> or something totally different
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, i'm still working on bug 478097, and i have the fixes available for the docbook -> html transformations (it's actually in our script, not docbook-xsl)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 478097 in ubuntu-docs "help.ubuntu.com claims to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional but is not" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478097
<Rocket2DMn> that means i can push it to all stable branches, i'm just wondering if we should bother
<Rocket2DMn> our static pages on h.u.c (index, legal, search) need to be fixed as well
<Rocket2DMn> i could do them manually or use a generated page (made with the fixed xsl) and copy in the appropriate material
<jbicha> http://ubuntutour.org/
<Rocket2DMn> another guide eh?
<jbicha> it looks like it's already been around long enough to be abandoned
<jbicha> 4 weeks since the last commit
<Rocket2DMn> it has a fairly large team on PL
<Rocket2DMn> LP
<UndiFineD> no not abaondonded, just low activity
<jbicha> well it was advertised on OMGUbuntu last fall
<UndiFineD> but it is a team full of documenters, so perhaps they would like to get involved
<Rocket2DMn> you know ive never actually looked at omgubuntu
<jbicha> I like the site mostly, I know some people who can't stand it
<Rocket2DMn> what is it supposed to be exactly?
<Rocket2DMn> looks like a news feed
<jbicha> it's a Ubuntu news site, geared towards the newer or non-developer enthusiasts
<Rocket2DMn> looks nice
<Rocket2DMn> i dont really follow a lot of news with Ubuntu which is kind of a bad thing, so if i'm not active on the forums i miss a lot of things
<jbicha> the guys running it are hoping to make a business out of it
<jbicha> if you follow that site & planet ubuntu, you'll get most of the news
<Rocket2DMn> yeah planet gets a lot of news thougjh, i dont have time to filter through it so i dont really look anymore
<Rocket2DMn> most of it is stuff i dont care about
<Rocket2DMn> hmmm, conky...
<Rocket2DMn> i think its time i cleaned up my conky, it hasnt been touched since Feisty
<DarkwingDuck> At UDS they were talking about bringing back the UWN
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: isnt that sorta obsolete considering omgubuntu?
<jbicha> well some in the community don't like omgubuntu
<jbicha> and UWN is supposedly for those who want a weekly summary of Ubuntu happenings instead of reading the planet & omg for themselves
<jbicha> but it was taking 30 hr to produce the thing which is too much
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: The issue that was brought up was relying on a commercial website for that.
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: the turn from it was that UWN was going to get ressurected again. It's one of those "fun" issues that keeps cropping up in the FOSS world.
<apachelogger> well, maintaining a weekly news for a project of our size will either require insane amount of time or cutting content
<apachelogger> neither would be beneficial to the user
<apachelogger> /s/user/reader
<jbicha> it depends on how much work you need to do
<jbicha> collecting 10-20 links isn't that difficult
<jbicha> writing a summary of each adds more time
<apachelogger> yeah, and I think the summary is the curcial part there
<apachelogger> otherwise you could just as well use a news aggregator on the planet :)
<jbicha> here's Fedora's version: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/LatestIssue
<jbicha> I think UWN tries to cover too much stuff
<DarkwingDuck> I guess the theory was having a condensed version of the planet along with other sources.
<apachelogger> jbicha: well, ubuntu is vastly larger project than fedora
<apachelogger> also the FWN do not seem very community
<DarkwingDuck> Because I guess having 'Official' support of a commercial site isn't in line with what Ubunut Community/Canonical vision wants.
<DarkwingDuck> I's about 60 hours of work a week to get the UWN running correctly.
<apachelogger> nono, official is ubuntu.com, if there is absolutely worthwhile news it ends up there (or the other sites like kubuntu.org resprectively)
<apachelogger> additionally to that you have semi-official community resources which would be the planet
<DarkwingDuck> and UWN
<apachelogger> now if UWN where to quote the planet it still would not be more official than any ubuntu member saying anything
<DarkwingDuck> then you have commercial sites like omgubuntu
<DarkwingDuck> very true
<DarkwingDuck> By 'official' I was refering to community run
<apachelogger> so claiming UWN should be official implies excluding the planet as possible resoruce
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: oh, yeah, well, in a way the omgubuntu people are also community
<apachelogger> there is no guideline against community members making money with their contribution to the community
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Correct but, because it's commercial it has seperated itself slightly (According to them)
<DarkwingDuck> That's according to omgubuntu. They don't concider themselves a community project.
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: that does not change the accountability and validity of the information
<jbicha> DarkwingDuck: what do you mean they don't consider themselves community?
<jbicha> citation?
<DarkwingDuck> Lemme find the email that Amber sent to us when we were working on UWN
<apachelogger> oh, here is a daring argument: if you produce news weekly, it is not news anymore ;)
 * apachelogger actually notes that he never read UWN for exactly that reason
<jbicha> I'd hesitate to call UWN official and trying to treat it like it is adds extra headache
<DarkwingDuck> My mistake on the classifacation of 'official'
<DarkwingDuck> I think what caused people to hesitate with OMG Ubuntu was the vollyball NSFW post
<jbicha> and the legendary neckbeard post
 * apachelogger was hoping for a "scandal: kubuntu switches to unity" post :/
<DarkwingDuck> ROFL
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: using jussi's screenshot as a post?
<apachelogger> srsly, we were checking omgubuntu all the time :P
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: yeah
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: THAT would have been funny, you still have that URL?
<apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2011/05/11/plasma-desktopgp1838.jpg\
<apachelogger> without the back slash obviously ^^
<jbicha> include a quote from Mark about all Ubuntu flavors to get the new interface since that's what Unity is all about, right?
<DarkwingDuck> LOL
 * DarkwingDuck debates
<DarkwingDuck> Did anyone send a anon tip to OMG Ubuntu about this?
<jbicha> maybe an exception for Ubuntu Server
<DarkwingDuck> I would hope so.
<jbicha> somebody needs to port Unity to the command line ;-)
<DarkwingDuck> LOL
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: we were thinking about it, but since there is a bug in plasma that prevents me from doing this and at the same time hit major promo for plasma by actually providing a plasma tempalte to automagically roll an unity activity we did not do it
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: works for me. Plus, why would we *want* Unity when Plasma is working so well.
 * DarkwingDuck isn't sure he wants to rely on compiz for a DE
<apachelogger> we do not
<apachelogger> some users do
<apachelogger> well, they want unity's good looks
<apachelogger> so I figured we could provide that, but you cannot make a vertical panel as the script API has a bug right now
<DarkwingDuck> I don't know why you can have good looks with plasma... I have a nice wodden earthy feel on mine. http://imm.io/5E81
<DarkwingDuck> s/can/can't
<apachelogger> gross
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: You can make a vertical panel just fine.
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: not when using the script api
<DarkwingDuck> Hmmz, I just added a panel and in the setting moved it vertical.
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: But, i see what you mean.
<apachelogger> yeah, that works, but building a unity clone yourself sux
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Aye,
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: if you click on your cashew and select activities you can add new activities from template
<apachelogger> using that and a working template you can get a unity clone in like 4 clicks
<apachelogger> however the template does not work because of aforementioned bug
<apachelogger> rather OT ^^
<jbicha> DarkwingDuck: the wood grains clash with each other
<DarkwingDuck> Yeah, I know jbicha... I've been playing around with ideas.
<jbicha> haha
<DarkwingDuck> This is my other setup (The one I use mostly) http://imm.io/5EnH
<apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: it is a good thing you are not deciding on the default artwork lineup for the ubuntu products :P
<DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Ehh, I'm a fan of dark.
#ubuntu-doc 2011-05-15
<DarkwingDuck> jbicha: Hey, remember when you asked for a citation about OMG Ubuntu not being a community project? I couldn't find what I was looking for so, I asked @omgubuntu (on twitter) If they were a community project and here was the reply: https://twitter.com/#!/omgubuntu/status/69569988259885056
<Captainkrtek> hey guys
<Captainkrtek> isnt the string freeze tomorrow?
<DarkwingDuck> Hmmz?
<DarkwingDuck> No, I'm not even sure we have a release schedule for Oneiric yet.
<DarkwingDuck> I take that back.
<DarkwingDuck> Release schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<DarkwingDuck> Captainkrtek: September 15th is the doc string freeze
<Captainkrtek> oh?
<Captainkrtek> thought  I saw something...
<Captainkrtek> oh wrong thing
<DarkwingDuck> XD
<Captainkrtek> was looking at #ubuntu-manual http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/KvXHj1XROp
<Captainkrtek> maverick freeze is today
<jbicha> j1mc: good morning, back at home?
<j1mc> jbicha: yeah
<j1mc> made it back yesterday late in the day
<j1mc> did you get my message to the ayatana list? i had never heard of ubuntu tour.
<j1mc> and they already have a maverick and natty release w/translations.
<jbicha> I hadn't really either, although it was mentioned on omgubuntu last year
<j1mc> yeah... and it made sense then, back when we were mostly silent
<jbicha> mm, I tried the "daily build" yesterday and it wasn't natty
<jbicha> their code hasn't had a commit in a month
<j1mc> oh... well, i just checked their launchpad page to see ... what? that's not what i saw
<j1mc> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-tour
 * pleia2 hugs j1mc 
<j1mc> 30 hours ago
<jbicha> automated translation import
<j1mc> pleia2: :)  thanks fo rthe hugs
<pleia2> was nice to finally meet you :)
<j1mc> pleia2: it was good hanging out w/ you at uds.
<j1mc> yeah
<jbicha> oh, I guess 26 Apr isn't a month
<j1mc> jbicha: well, point taken. anyway... we will get going so people will want to join our team again. :)
<j1mc> like you did
<jbicha> the maverick build had some interesting ideas like detecting which browsers were installed but it had a lot of rough edges too
<jbicha> you know, blogging to the Ubuntu planet helps a lot with awareness, I read your posts there
<j1mc> yeah, i would like a team blog.
<j1mc> i actually pulled down a team-maintained WP theme from launchpad this morning
<jbicha> like this? https://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/
<j1mc> yes, but with an ubuntu theme
<j1mc> i don't really fault that project for starting up... we weren't doing much.
<j1mc> i might have started something, too.
<j1mc> ok... i need some breakfast.  :)
<pleia2> j1mc: I'm with you re: food at uds, not sure how I'm going to top breakfast here now :)
<jbicha> it looks like you have to self-host to use your own theme, so that's a bit more expensive
<j1mc> jbicha: i have a hosting plan i'm currently using. we could probably just piggyback on that.
<j1mc> jbicha: well, we can talk about it.
<j1mc> it would be a 'nice-to-have' feature
<j1mc> pleia2: surprised you are awake now. hope you find some good grub. :)
<j1mc> jbicha: later. :)
<pleia2> j1mc: yeah, it's 5am, jetlag is fun
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-07
<benonsoftware> Hi, I was emailed requesting to re-name a page on https://help.ubuntu.com/community what should I do?
<benonsoftware> (I believe it was sent directly to me unless I am miss reading something in gmail)
<hobgoblin> benonsoftware: I got that too - I suspect a send to members of team is to blame
<benonsoftware> hobgoblin: Ah, okies. So I don't need to worry?
<hobgoblin> I don't think everyone is able to change wiki page names anyway - read something somewhere a little while ago
<benonsoftware> Ah, thanks
<hobgoblin> possibility of breaking links etc - I'm ignoring it :)
<benonsoftware> :)
<carif_> sorry, just got kicked out
<mdke_> jbicha: are you working on the translation update? If not i'm happy to do so
<jbicha> mdke_: it was on my list to do, but I hadn't started it yet & I'd need a sponsor anyway so you're welcome to take care of it
<jbicha> how do you handle uploading it to Quantal?
<mdke_> jbicha: normally the package just gets copied over to quantal but whoever approves the sru, or we can upload it separately
<mdke_> jbicha: ok, I'll do it
<jbicha> well the version number has to be different if we don't have the SRU/Archive Admin guy copy it over
<mdke_> jbicha: right, the version number would be 12.10.1
<mdke> jbicha: did you come across this one in the build for the previous upload? http://paste.ubuntu.com/974041/
<mdke> jbicha: a particularly unhelpful error message :(
<jbicha> mdke: sorry for the delay, yeah we had that problem quite a bit last time we uploaded
<jbicha> shaunm mumbled something about it will be better with his next intltool update
<jbicha> u2190 is â but that error message doesn't exactly point to where the problem is
<jbicha> if you commit the translations I can try to help you dig through and find the broken translated string
<jbicha> it's such a headache though :|
<mdke> jbicha: ok thanks, that gives me something to go on
<mdke> jbicha: I guess we should be using xml entities for these types of symbols, although I have no idea if that would prevent the error message from happening
<mdke> found that broken translation, I think
<mdke> odd that itstool bailed on it
<mdke> eww, now â is causing a problem. That symbol reminds me of Microsoft Word autocorrection
<mdke> Perhaps someone was using Microsoft Word when they wrote a particular string...
<mdke> ok, it builds
<jbicha> mdke: awesome
<jbicha> LibreOffice for translations?
<mdke> jbicha: the quotation symbols were in the English version
<mdke> nice, Chinese is 100% translated
<MrChrisDruif> Ugh, MS Word autocorrection....Ugh MS Word in general
<mdke> yeah
<jbicha> and to think that Simplified Chinese was at 0% a couple days ago ;)
<shaunm> jbicha, mdke: http://itstool.org/download/
<shaunm> get whoever packages itstool to package 1.1.3
<jbicha> shaunm: thanks, we're good for today but I'm sure it'll help for next time
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-08
<eagles0513875_> hey guys i am noticing a problem with https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/dovecot-server.html that it no longer works for the version of dovecot on 12.04
<eagles0513875_> those instructions are for the version in 10.04
<eagles0513875> hey guys
<eagles0513875> is anyone around that can push forward a rather urgently needed fix to the dovecot documentation
<eagles0513875> as the version is drastically different then the documentation is for
<eagles0513875> that version of the documentation you have for 12.04 works for the 10.04 version of dovecot which is 1.0.9 i believe and this is version 2.0.19
<eagles0513875> hey ikonia i found a bug with the dovecot documentation seems like the version in the server guide for 12.04 is for an older version of dovecot which is in 10.04
<ikonia> eagles0513875: yes, you told me this the other day and I told you to log a bug
<ikonia> have you logged a bug yet ?
<eagles0513875> ya i logged a bug
<ikonia> ok, so what do you want to happen now ?
<eagles0513875> any chance that someone can possibly confirm it for me? what is the exact procedure for bugs in teh docs?
<ikonia> does it need confirming
<ikonia> have you done an install and verified the docunmentation is the wrong version ?
<eagles0513875> yes i installed dovecot and i tried to find the part where you specify what protocol you want to use in dovecot.conf and it doesnt exist
<ikonia> whoaaaa
<ikonia> that doesn't mean it's wrong
<ikonia> that just means it's not in the default dovecot.conf
<eagles0513875> documentation is still wrong then
<ikonia> why ?
<ikonia> why is the documentation still wrong ?
<eagles0513875> shouldnt it tell me where else i should look to find that setting?
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> re-read what I said
<ikonia> it doesn't mean the parameter is wrong/invalid, it could be as simple as it's just not in the default config file, meaning you have to add it
<ikonia> eg: if there is an option called "enable_dovecot=yes/no" and the default is "yes" it's quite common to not put that option in the config file as so few people will want "no"
<ikonia> and those who do want "no" will know how to research it/add it
<ikonia> (just for example)
<ikonia> look at the apache config, that's missing tons of options as you only add the ones you want
<ikonia> have you actually checked if that option is still valid in the 12.04 package ?
<eagles0513875> yes
<ikonia> and is it valid ?
<eagles0513875> its not in the configuration file
<ikonia> that's not what I asked
<ikonia> is that option still valid
<eagles0513875> and this is after i installed dovecot-imapd package
<eagles0513875> valid as in does it still apply to the package available in 12.04
<ikonia> that's not what I asked
<ikonia> please respond to the questions I asked
<ikonia> eagles0513875: correct, does the option in the documentation still work in the 12.04
<eagles0513875> no it does not
<eagles0513875> but i can confirm that it does in 10.04 though
<ikonia> what happens ? does it ignore the option
<ikonia> does it error ?
<eagles0513875> the protocols option in teh configuration file is non existent
<ikonia> are you reading what I'm saying
<ikonia> ?
<ikonia> have you ADDED the option
<eagles0513875> no i havent but i shall try that now
<ikonia> just because it's not in the config file by default
<ikonia> doesn't mean it's not valid the right option
<ikonia> I've just given you a 5 line example of this
<ikonia> and you're still not reading it
<eagles0513875> ok
<ikonia> add it and see if it's a valid option/the correct way to set the parameter
<ikonia> eagles0513875: what's the bug number ?
<eagles0513875> bug 996383
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 996383 in ubuntu-docs "ubuntu 12.04 dovecot documentation is not compatible with the version in precise" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/996383
<ikonia> right, so test it now and lets either update this bug properly, or close it as the detail/description in that bug is poor
<ikonia> eagles0513875: got to focus on details more, that bug is really bad and just a waste of time/effort
<ikonia> lets get this done
<eagles0513875> ok
<eagles0513875> ikonia: there seems to be this which replaces that line # Enable installed protocols !include_try /usr/share/dovecot/protocols.d/*.protocol  not sure of its purpose or what it does
<eagles0513875> question is what protocols are installed
<ikonia> again - not what I asked
<ikonia> does the option/setting in the documentation work in the 12.04 package ?
<ikonia> please focus on what's being done here
<eagles0513875> added the line and restarted to see if it would give any errors but it does not so far
<ikonia> eagles0513875: does it do what you expected ?
<eagles0513875> ok next step in regards to maildir wasnt in there either but added the line and nothing throwing out errors on server restart
<eagles0513875> ikonia: have yet to test
<eagles0513875> still need to setup postfix
<ikonia> ok, so I would close that bug for the mean time
<eagles0513875> ok so its workign seeing as i can tell net into imaps
<ikonia> mark it as invalid, test it get ALL the info you can rather than 2 lines of text, and then if there is a problem log a clean bug
<eagles0513875> ok
<ikonia> lets not waste peoples time with no-valid bugs
<ikonia> mark it as invalid, close it, and test
<ikonia> if it works, you know the documentation is fine
<ikonia> if it doesn't work, is it the documentation or the package that's at fault
<ikonia> log a bug to the right component with much much much better and more information
<ikonia> clear ?
<eagles0513875> correct
<eagles0513875> what if there are minor issues cuz the docs say to modify those entries shouldnt it say in 12.04 that it should add them
<ikonia> no
<ikonia> you're setting up a mail server a certain level of ability is expected, eg: the ability to add a parameter if it's not there and rely on "cut and paste" appraoch
<ikonia> approach
<eagles0513875> ok
<ikonia> do some good testing and see if there are any holes in the documentation that are actually valid, and then consider logging a bug if there is
<ikonia> but if you do need to log a bug, get some great detail in
<eagles0513875> ok
<ikonia> the last one was just a waste of time (and that's not a complaint - but just an honest feedback)
<eagles0513875> i know it wasnt a complaint :) just was getting anxious i have my friend who really wants his new mail server online
<ikonia> that doesn't mean log a sloppy bug, if anything it will slow down the process
<eagles0513875> understood
<eagles0513875> i have another bug to file against 12.10 plasma netbook shell which is really annoying it seems a thread is crashing in libthread_d what exactly does that lib do?
<ikonia> no idea without research
<eagles0513875> agreed would you mind if i paste you the back trace? im not sure if its valid i have all the dbg packages installed but not sure what is the issue. and the bug crasher when i hit report bug wants me to file the bug on bugs.kde.org
<ikonia> not really relevent to this channel
<eagles0513875> ok will take it to +1
<ikonia> we've probably strayed a bit too far in here as it is
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-09
<billybigr> hey all anyone alive?
<billybigr> anyone alive?
<billybigr> i need to report an error in the 12.04 server guide
<SJUDGE> Can someone please tell me how you can find the pages you have subscribed to in the Ubuntu Community Wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community
<billybigr> anyone alive?
<billybigr> i need to report an error in the 12.04 server guide
<head_victim> billybigr: if you can't find anyone around I'd suggest filing a bug report tonotify them
<head_victim> billybigr: a link to do it with is - https://bugs.launchpad.net/serverguide/+filebug
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-10
<bkerensa> hello mdke
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha everyone, anyone else from the docs team around?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-11
<bkerensa> MrChrisDruif: Yo
#ubuntu-doc 2012-05-13
<wylde> anyone alive in here? There's someone in #ubuntu looking for help doing translations and there's no reply in #ubuntu-translators.
<MrChrisDruif> wylde; I'm not considering myself alive ;-)
#ubuntu-doc 2013-05-07
<knome> if anybody is around, get out of your cave
#ubuntu-doc 2013-05-09
<melodie> salut
<Atamira> hi melodie
<Atamira> wow. that was late
<melodie> hi Atamira
<Atamira> not alot of talking done in here melodie . mostly on the email list
<melodie> ok :)
<melodie> Atamira
<melodie> https://sourceforge.net/p/mkahawa/discussion/955736/thread/c69fe267
<Atamira> have you tried the ubuntu forums melodie ?
<Atamira> http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=1147665
<Atamira> its 0400hrs and im off to bed
<melodie> Atamira just read - forums ubuntu can't do more
<melodie> ;)
#ubuntu-doc 2013-05-10
<bkerensa> well I guess its time to open a saucy branch huh?
<bkerensa> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2013-05-12
<ahoneybun> hello?
<Atamira> hi ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> I heard you needed help
<Atamira> have a look at the wikipedia
<Atamira> it will lead you in the right direction
<ahoneybun> the doc team one?
<Atamira> yes
<Atamira> sorry, its nearly 3am. im off to bed
<Atamira> good luck ahoneybun
<Atamira> oh, and subscribe to the mailing list. you get more feedback from the list
<ahoneybun> k
#ubuntu-doc 2014-05-07
<slickymasterWork> damn connection
<belkinsa> Doc Team meeting in Hour in #ubuntu-meeting!
<belkinsa> In an hour*
<belkinsa> Meeting is in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting!
<belkinsa> Meeting in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting!
<belkinsa> Meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting!
<belkinsa> The meeting, in #ubuntu-meeting, is starting right now!
<belkinsa> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<belkinsa> Who is here for the Doc Team meeting?
<belkinsa> Sorry, wrong window.
<shaunm> GunnarHj: some teams have included virtual participants in their sprints in the past. I don't control what happens in the sprints
<shaunm> I've done in-person sprints and I've done virtual sprints. they both have their strengths and weaknesses. but virtual sprints are just no substitute for face time with your community
<pleia2> agreed, in person sprints are super useful
<GunnarHj> shaunm: Ok, I see. The problem is the distance.
<pleia2> yeah, it's hard for an all volunteer team to find resources for such a thing
<shaunm> sure. unfortunately, the planet is rather big
<pleia2> Canonical does have community funding that we might look into: http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
<shaunm> does canonical not have money to throw at volunteer community members?
<knome> hmm.
<belkinsa> knome, meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, if you want to join in.
<pleia2> it would require a pretty detailed proposal to bring to canoncal and buy-in from the whole team, but I think it's a real option
<pleia2> and they don't disclose how much money exists in this community pool, so I'd shoot for being frugal
<knome> hehe
<belkinsa> Well, that was a fail.
<knome> what then? :)
<belkinsa> Maybe we should do the meetings here instead.
<godbyk> belkinsa: What was a fail?
<knome> probably.
<godbyk> We could hold meetings in this channel. We have the meetingology bot here.
<pmatulis_> this channel could use some activity.  it's been dead for a few years
<belkinsa> Yeah and we can have longer meetings.
<godbyk> And we don't have to worry about scheduling conflicts with others.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Are we returning to the meeting?
<belkinsa> You think we can move on with the meeting here with meetingology?
<knome> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May  7 19:05:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #chair belkinsa
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa knome
<belkinsa> godbyk, and pmatulis_
<knome> #unchair knome
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa knome
<belkinsa> #chair godbyk pmatulis_
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk knome pmatulis_
<belkinsa> #unchair knome
<meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk knome pmatulis_
<godbyk> knome: You were awfully spry with meetingology.. sure you don't want to be a chair? :-)
<knome> yeah, i'm running in 5
<godbyk> Anyway..
<knome> heh, the #unchair command doesn't work
<godbyk> We were discussing polling to see who users the docs and how often, etc.
<belkinsa> #topic Desktop: Finding a driver
<godbyk> knome: Guess you're stuck with it!
<knome> ;)
<knome> will contact people who'll fix the bot! :P
<belkinsa> #topic Desktop: Making poll for Doc Team
<belkinsa> Maybe this could be worked out via the mailing-list and brought up again in the next meeting?
<godbyk> That's fine with me. Has anyone volunteered to start that discussion?
<pmatulis_> i brought it up but it should really come from a desktop person
<belkinsa> Well, it could be all forms of the docs.
<belkinsa> it = poll.
<godbyk> pmatulis_: There's no reason you can't send an email to the list about it, though. :)
<pmatulis_> godbyk: i can send an email, no biggie
<godbyk> pmatulis_: (I don't think there's are any toes to be stepped on. ;-))
<belkinsa> #action pmatulis_ Send e-mail to the List about making a poll
<meetingology> ACTION: pmatulis_ Send e-mail to the List about making a poll
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Thanks. :) (There are not so many desktop people around, that's where we began the discussion.)
<knome> bbl.
<belkinsa> See ya knome
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: well, there's only one server people around :)
<belkinsa> Moving on...
<belkinsa> ;topic Desktop: Stable release update before 14.04.1?
<belkinsa> #topic Desktop: Stable release update before 14.04.1?
<pmatulis_> and if you guys don't mind, i need to pick up a certain small person at a certain school bus stop or a certain person is going to get into a whole heap of certain trouble.  be back in 10 for the server part
<belkinsa> Sure, pmatulis_
<GunnarHj> The bot seems to be off.
<GunnarHj> My item anyway.
<belkinsa> No, it's normal.  It only works like that in the meeting channel.
<GunnarHj> Ok..
<belkinsa> I think we will need it since there will many upgrading from 12.04 LTS to this one.
<GunnarHj> I thought that since 14.04 is a LTS, we should make it possible to improve the desktop guide compared to what was shipped in April. But considering the item we just discussed, I'm currently not very inclined to open up ubuntu-docs for trusty.
<belkinsa> Yeah, I agree until we know how many are really using the docs.
<godbyk> Is there are to do list for desktop docs for 14.04.1?
<GunnarHj> godbyk: No.
<GunnarHj> godbyk: There are a few bug reports, that's all.
<belkinsa> Maybe a to do list is needed to keep the sub-team on track
<GunnarHj> Indeed. That's why a driver would have been nice to have. ;)
<GunnarHj> I suggest that we leave it as is for now.
<belkinsa> Maybe I can be the temp one to just get a task list going?
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Are you volunteering as a temporary desktop guide driver?
<belkinsa> GunnarHj, yeah, but I  think I might be barking up the wrong tree here
<GunnarHj> Actually, as long as we are only talking about fixing known bugs, we don't need a todo list.
<belkinsa> Let's just leave it here until we know the usage of the docs
<GunnarHj> +1
<godbyk> brb
<belkinsa> Okay.
<belkinsa> We will be skipping to Ubuntu Manual since pmatulis_ is not here yet.
<belkinsa> #topic Ubuntu Manual
<belkinsa> godbyk, I know there was some talk in the mailing-list about the manual but do you have anything to bring up?
<pmatulis_> back
<belkinsa> Welcome back
<belkinsa> We skipped your items but they will be next once godbyk gets back.
<belkinsa> Or not.
<belkinsa> #topic Server: Revisit option of moving from XML Docbook to RST Markdown
<belkinsa> Objective: lowering barrier to contribution; a common complaint
<belkinsa> We have lots of time since the Server Guide is only officially published every LTS
<belkinsa> I've already gone over the main machinations to do this
<belkinsa> Primary issue is fixing all the broken stuff caused by the conversion (lots of broken hyperlinks)
<belkinsa> Secondary issue is settling on the appearance/theme; example here: http://serverguide.papamike.ca:8081/
<belkinsa> Discuss changes in workflow for translators as part of changing to Markdown
<belkinsa> What changes in workflow are needed to create the PDF version. Will pandoc do the job? Effectively YES
<belkinsa> Also is there another other server person here along with pmatulis_?
<pmatulis_> nope, just me to my knowledge
<belkinsa> Then I think this could be talked in the list of this team and the Server team, if possible,
<pmatulis_> er, ok
<belkinsa> If that is okay with you.
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: Why are you so reluctant to use the meeting to talk about things?
<pmatulis_> it's fine, i'll send another email :)
<belkinsa> Because we lack people and it's impossible to get anything done now.  And we are going to the 120 minute mark.
<belkinsa> The start was fine.
<pmatulis_> it's ok
<GunnarHj> Ok.. Maybe this will improve when we meet more often.
<belkinsa> I think it will.  ;)
<belkinsa> And also I think when we know how many are really using the docs.
<pmatulis_> the upshot is that i'm all alone with the server guide in terms of driving/reviewing/committing
<GunnarHj> Re using the docs, personally I think that's part of a huge topic. But I'll comment on the list.
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Upshot? ;)
<pmatulis_> and contributions are dwindling to record low levels
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: s/upshot/summary
<GunnarHj> ok
<belkinsa> I see.
<belkinsa> I think it's happening in most teams, losing numbers.
<pmatulis_> i send emails out and get replies.  i take the time to reply, but nothing *ever* comes back
<GunnarHj> So basically the situation for the server is just as poor as for the desktop guide. :(
<pmatulis_> hence the agenda of moving to a more palatable format, markdown
<belkinsa> And i think is the same for Ubuntu Manual and the wiki.
<GunnarHj> I think we should highlight this at the vUDS.
<belkinsa> +1
<pmatulis_> we do every time
<GunnarHj> Then let's do it louder. :)
<belkinsa> Might not help.
<knome> hmph.
<pmatulis_> it's hard to compete with the likes of google/askubuntu/forums.  if readership is low (people tend towards 'gimme the answer'), people do not sense a big importance
<belkinsa> I thought you were gone, knome.
<knome> to be honest, i don't think any markup is the blocker.
<knome> i'm back.
<belkinsa> Welcome back.
<belkinsa> knome, I agree, it's the readership.
<knome> if there aren't people to guide the new contributors with whatever issues they have, they are not going to contribute
<knome> most might have problems or be unsure with even reporting bugs
<belkinsa> I think we are in that cultural sense of just give me the answer.
<pmatulis_> knome: you feel that people do not contribute b/c of a lack of support/guidance?
<knome> yeah.
<pmatulis_> i don't think people even get far enough to know
<knome> that's part of it
<GunnarHj> I tend to agree with pmatulis_ on that one.
<pmatulis_> they just look at the procedures and close the tab, or at best go to the wiki instead
<belkinsa> I'm just chaning the topic since we are talking about already.
<belkinsa> #topic Any other Business
<knome> if we think the procedures page is a bit too daunting, rewrite it
<belkinsa> We could.
<knome> tbh, why point any new people to specific procedures anyway?
<belkinsa> Didn't balloons say something about it?
<knome> why not tell them "you can help us and it's easy (lies!)"
<balloons> ^-^
<knome> then point them to a resource where they can talk with people
<pmatulis_> anyway, based on the last 4 or so UDSs, people keep mentioning lowering the barrier by replacing XML with something simpler.  it is definitely a PITA to deal with
<knome> ...and get enough people to talk with them
<knome> pmatulis_, who people?
<knome> pmatulis_, the people who contribute?
<pmatulis_> knome: the people who decide to show up to the UDS sessions or remotely on irc
<belkinsa> And not do any work for the team?
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Which are probably not prospective contributors.
<belkinsa> or the project.
<pmatulis_> if *those* people are saying this, you need to wonder about how the average joe feels
 * knome shrugs
<knome> we recently rewrote the whole xubuntu documentation
<knome> while i converted most of the stuff to docbook, others have done that as well and it has been no problem
<knome> there are enough examples around.
<knome> in the documentation, that is
<pmatulis_> interesting.  you get enough contributions for xubuntu?
<knome> want to know how something is done? look that up in the source.
<belkinsa> And readership.
<godbyk> Sorry, guys. I had a phone call and I need to get back to some other work now. I'll read the logs of this conversation later, though.
<pmatulis_> knome: look what up in the source?
<GunnarHj> We would probably need more of that community spirit as you apparently have in xubuntu.
<godbyk> belkinsa: Thanks for setting up and chairing the meeting today!
<belkinsa> godbyk, alright/
<belkinsa> Not a problem
<knome> pmatulis_, look up how it's done.
<pmatulis_> knome: how what is done?
<knome> ~xubuntu-doc is 9 members, of which pretty much everybody are either active or were active when we did the rewriting
<knome> pmatulis_, well, anything you want to know...
<pmatulis_> knome: about writing XML?
<belkinsa> Look, I think we *need* to first figure out the readership then work on lowering that barrier to entry to change something.
<knome> pmatulis_, "hey, there's a cool infobox there"
<knome> pmatulis_, -> go see the source and copypaste, change the content
<knome> pmatulis_, "i wonder how to add that kind of header"
<knome> pmatulis_, -> go see the source and copypaste
<knome> i understand some people are not interested in doing things like that, or learn low-medium -difficulty things
<knome> but hey... maybe docs is not for them then.
<knome> maybe they prefer giving irc support
<knome> but to my original point...
<knome> i don't think any markup is a problem
<knome> if people are motivated to help, they will
<knome> we can't motivate them to help by telling how easy our markup is.
<pmatulis_> there are degrees of motivation
<knome> that's not a marketing point.
 * belkinsa sighs.
<knome> it's cool and nice that it is easy
<belkinsa> I think I want to end this and just have it in a non-meeting setting.
<knome> but it itself won't gather contributors
<knome> belkinsa, why?
<knome> belkinsa, aren't the meetings for discussion?
<belkinsa> Good point but I think it's just you two now.
<belkinsa> And we are at the two hour makr.
<belkinsa> mark
<GunnarHj> belkinsa: me too
<belkinsa> Oh, sorry, GunnarHj.
<knome> i imagine the logs for the meeting will be specifically up on the meetings page
<belkinsa> They will.
<knome> regular irc logs arent'.
<belkinsa> Good point.
<knome> or they are, but you really have to dig deep to find anything
<GunnarHj> And this discussion is indeed important.
<knome> seems like pmatulis_ went quiet though
<belkinsa> FIne.
<pmatulis_> i'm here
<knome> pmatulis_, so if we had a simpler markup, contributors would flood in from doors and windows? :)
<pmatulis_> pretend you are a horse
<pmatulis_> and you see some obstacles up ahead
<pmatulis_> you will tend to shy away from the really talls ones, unless you are a super horse
<knome> now you are saying the markup is the first obstacle
<knome> it shouldn't
<knome> (be)
<GunnarHj> knome: Well, you mentioned 9 active contributors to the xubuntu docs. If we had just half of that for standard Ubuntu we could accomplish a lot.
<knome> exactly
<pmatulis_> if we presume an interest in contributing, then, yes, the procedures presents an obstacle that the person either overcomes or does not
<knome> the average contributor doesn't mind *any* procedures
<knome> it makes contributing sound like a lot of work
<knome> if they could chat with somebody who explained them some of the procedures while they were asking questions, the barried would be a lot lower
<knome> "oh btw, we have these procedures, but you know half of them already"
<knome> and if people do something "wrong"... what does it matter?
<knome> the procedures should hardly be the starting point
<pmatulis_> well, answer me this then.  why is the wiki & askubuntu & forums an evergrowing pile of contributions while those that depend on docbook are not?  because it's easy as hell, that's why
<knome> they are different kind of projects to begin with
<knome> the point is human interaction
<GunnarHj> Well, I for one think the main problem is a lack of people with a true interest in contributing. People with a true interest in contributing are not intimidated by a few procedures. They understand that they are needed.
<knome> except in wikis, where the point is "everybody acan edit"
<knome> the documentation is different by design
<knome> whether it was in docbook or markdown
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: I think I have an answer to why it's easier to make people contribute to askubuntu and forums: By answering there you instantly shows how skilled you are. People like that. :)
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: there is some of that isn't there.  good point
<knome> yeah, social acceptance too
<belkinsa> It is a today's culture thing.
<GunnarHj> OTOH askubuntu, forums and such are ineffective. The same questions and answers are posted multiple times at multiple places. That's why a core set of docs is a good thing.
<belkinsa> That's why I think we need to figire out readership.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: you mean inefficient prolly
<belkinsa> Indeed, GunnarHj and that's why I questioned why the need of AskUbuntu/Forums.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: but, they supply what the people want
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Yeah, I probably mean inefficient. Sorry.
<pmatulis_> GunnarHj: a quick answer to their problem
<GunnarHj> pmatulis_: True.
<belkinsa> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2013-December/018229.html
<GunnarHj> Which leads me to the conclusion that our difficulties in recruiting contributors depends on the fact that there are far too many willing answerers in the forums. :)
<pmatulis_> so we are weak at both the readership level and the contributor level (boring anonymous xml drudgery)
<belkinsa> +1
<belkinsa> Yes.
<pmatulis_> difficult for sure
<pmatulis_> not to mention the fact that our own doc contributor pool is splintered into wiki.ubuntu.com, help.ubuntu.com/community, help.ubuntu.com, ubuntu manual
<knome> wiki.ubuntu.com shouldn't be documentation.
<belkinsa> Yeah, more for team pages and that such things/
<knome> if there are documentation bits there, they should be directed at developers and at most, testers
<pmatulis_> i stand corrected
<knome> it's likely that there is some documentation there though... if you bump into it, notice it on the channel
<pmatulis_> quick check gave me
<pmatulis_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support
<pmatulis_> and it didn't take long
<knome> that's borderline
<pmatulis_> anyway, i made my point!
<knome> and the kernel team probably prefers to maintain it there
<belkinsa> I agree with knome.
<pmatulis_> they evidently do prefer to keep their documentation there
<pmatulis_> anyway, i'm fried.  anything else to the meeting?
<GunnarHj> The big challenge is that there are few "average Joes" among the Linux users. "Average Joe" does not run his own server per se, and most desktop users are power users who don't mind googling around to get their expert questions answered.
<belkinsa> Nothing.  I'm not in the mood to talk about the Wiki sub-team item since no one of the PopularsPages are here.
<belkinsa> I think we just need to try to get monthly meetings going and a poll about readership up.
<belkinsa> And network with developers.
<belkinsa> And sorry for my mood shift.
<GunnarHj> I'm going to problematize that readership poll. But let me do so on the list.
<belkinsa> Sure.
<belkinsa> ANd it's pmatulis_ action item to bring it up.
<GunnarHj> right
<knome> i'm sure he doesn't mind if GunnarHj brings it up.
<knome> just get things done
<belkinsa> #action GunnarHj Be the back up of pmatulis_'s item
<meetingology> ACTION: GunnarHj Be the back up of pmatulis_'s item
<GunnarHj> ok, I can be backup. :)
<belkinsa> Okay!  I'm calling this meeting to an end.  Thanks for all for coming.
<belkinsa> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May  7 20:32:15 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-doc/2014/ubuntu-doc.2014-05-07-19.05.moin.txt
<pmatulis_> let's try to keep this channel active
<knome> thanks.
<knome> let's keep on doing regular meetings
<belkinsa> pmatulis_, I agree and maybe use meetingology for discussion to log them.
<belkinsa> knome, we will.
<GunnarHj> Thanks all!
<pmatulis_> bye peeps
<belkinsa> See ya, pmatulis_
#ubuntu-doc 2014-05-08
<pmatulis_> morning
<belkinsa> Morning pmatulis_.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-05-09
<slickymasterWork> knome: you around?
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> knome: there's someone in UF with difficulties in accessing (to edit) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity/
<slickymasterWork> after logging in he always gets the Immutable Page and not the Edit possibility
<slickymasterWork> even after refreshing the page
<slickymasterWork> can you imagine why?
<knome> does he have a ubuntu one account that is linked to a launchpad account?
<knome> or, in other words, are they asked to share their username?
<slickymasterWork> yes, he says that he created it the day before yesterady
<belkinsa> I think I do.
<knome> can you make sure?
<slickymasterWork> FWIW here's the link to the thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2222853&p=13018570#post13018570
<belkinsa> I can.
<knome> that's always the number one check to do
<knome> and the "ultimate" registration page is at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Registration
<slickymasterWork> ok, thanks
<belkinsa> The wiki goes to the Ubuntu One SSO.
<slickymasterWork> I'm going to provide him that link
<belkinsa> WIki log in*
<belkinsa> And it does ask for username
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2014/02/23/logging-in-with-ubuntu-one/
<belkinsa> And it's a greyed out check box
<knome> that might also help them understand the situation
<knome> belkinsa, greyed out, but is it checked, and is there a username next to it?
<belkinsa> Yes, all of them are tre.
<belkinsa> true*
<knome> then that sounds okay.
<knome> and after that, they can't edit?
<slickymasterWork> thank you both guys
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<knome> slickymasterWork, guy and gal ;)
<belkinsa> lol
<belkinsa> Gender shouldn't matter here, though.
<knome> not at all
<slickymasterWork> and 'guys' it's generic anyway
<belkinsa> Anyways, tell the users to log in to that page after they logged in.
<belkinsa> Maybe that could help.
<belkinsa> DOn't tell that thread is locked!
<belkinsa> Oh, wait, I need to log in
<knome> heh
<belkinsa> knome, before I forget, awesome page about logging in.
<slickymasterWork> lol
 * knome listens to "Fall of the Peacemakers" by Molly Hatchet
<knome> belkinsa, cheers. happy to be able to assist :)
<slickymasterWork> that song has a fabulous guitar knome
<belkinsa> Maybe that could be a wiki page itself, minus the joining.
<knome> slickymasterWork, yes!
<knome> and wonderful lyrics
<slickymasterWork> southern rock
<slickymasterWork> :)
 * slickymasterWork likes it
<pmatulis_> belkinsa: 2 emails sent
<slickymaster> knome: remember I asked earlier today about that forum user that wasn't able to edit a wiki page?
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> I passed him those two links you provided me but he still being unable to edit
<knome> hmph.
<knome> any new information on the issue?
<slickymaster> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2222853&p=13018968&viewfull=1#post13018968
<slickymaster> he did set up a launchpad account
<knome> did they log out completely from ubuntu one?
<knome> i don't know if that makes any difference, but maybe..
<slickymaster> Åot sure but he mention that he cleared his browser cache
<slickymaster> which is the same as loggin out completely
<slickymaster> there's something else that could be (or not) related
<slickymaster> he is from Iran
<knome> potentially
<knome> you could point them to #canonical-sysadmin
<knome> though it's weekend
<slickymaster> I'll post it the forum thread, noting that it's preferable to contact anyone in the channel on weekdays
<knome> yeah, weekdays on office hours
<knome> pleia2 also has a ticket for IS in the queue about that
<knome> so don't know if it could fix it for people, or practically just allow them to sign in without a username
<slickymaster> thanks for the heads up knome
<knome> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=24297
<knome> that's the ticket
<slickymaster> thanks for that knome
<knome> np
#ubuntu-doc 2014-05-10
<belkinsa> pmatulis_, I saw.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-05-05
<mhall119> If anyone can join us to talk about Unity 8 documentation, we're live at UOS http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22447/user-documentation-for-unity-8/
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: ping?
<dsmythies> Hi Gunnar.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Hi!
<GunnarHj> Sorry for jumping in very late. I got the automation idea, but missed what was said before that.
<dsmythies> I guess the text will be available on irc logs web pages a few minutes after the hour. however... you didn't miss much. It seems vaque to me. and it almost sounds like heading more towards the "manual" project that Kevin is invovled with that current docs.
<dsmythies> translations and such were not even brought up, although Peter tried.
<GunnarHj> I don't see #ubuntu-uos-community in the IRC-logs. Maybe it will show up later.
<dsmythies> I gather there will be a lot more screen shots than currently, and there was much discussion about screen shots and not much about text content.
<GunnarHj> Hmm... Are they going to start something from scratch?
<GunnarHj> Yeah, I heard lots about screenshots and little about creating and maintaining contents.
<GunnarHj> I wonder if Stephen Webb has been involved? Last months he seemed to have quite a different approach.
<dsmythies> Sounds like it, yes. There are no resources in the docs team, as you well know. I'm not sure that got across. I see that mhall119 is here,
<dsmythies> I don't think Stephen Webb was there.
<GunnarHj> ok
<GunnarHj> mhall119: ping?
<dsmythies> This will be a major major project. I do not see myself getting involved. I don't use dekstop and don't have the capactity.
<dsmythies> keeping current docs going, which you do most of the work for desktop help, is a different story than starting a new project.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Indeed.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: I have to be away from keyboard for awhile.
<mhall119> dsmythies: I think bregma is on holiday this week
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Are they expecting that existing team does most of the work with this new thing??
<mhall119> but this session was his idea originally
<dsmythies> Who is bregma? Is that Stephen?
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Aha, thanks. Then he got some new ideas since last month. :)
<mhall119> dsmythies: yes
<mhall119> that's his IRC nick
<mhall119> GunnarHj: my hope is that the Unity 8 developers, along with the QA community, will be more involved in creating and maintaining the documentation
<mhall119> and also that we can automate some of it
<GunnarHj> mhall119: I think that will be necessary. The docs team consists mostly of lurkers...
<mhall119> the goal is for there to be less work for the docs team, especially on maintaining docs once they are written
<dsmythies> I think that developers being more involved is key. That is exactly what I brought up in the last cummunity checkin thing. Anyway, I have to go for now.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: I know, it has for a long time too, it's frankly amazing that you guys still get done as much as you do
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Basically we just handle bugs and publish the thing. Not much of contents creation.
<GunnarHj> mhall119: One thought: Ubuntu is not just the desktop, and probably lots of contents in the current desktop guide will apply to the Unity 8 desktop as well.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: Unity 8 is what we're focusing on with this, we're not going to try and do it for Unity 7
<mhall119> so, desktop, tablet and phone we should be able to do all togeter
<GunnarHj> mhall119: I didn't mean to change the Unity 7 stuff, but only saying that there may be contents that will apply to the new converged environment. Maybe not much - I know too little about it.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: I'm targetting Unity 8 mostly because I think that's going to be easier to run with Autopilot
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Ok. Maybe I should wait until something is written to the list. Then it will be easier to get the picture.
<awvas> hello guys, can i talk with someone from the ubuntu team?
<dsmythies> awvas: How can we help?
<awvas> i've noticed all the ubuntu.net. are redirecting to ubuntu.com
<awvas> now, lets say i want to register ubuntu.[my country]
<awvas> what will happen
<awvas> and can i do it?
<jpds> awvas: I think most of them redirect to ubuntu.com.
<awvas> yes, but can i register my own ubuntu domain? is it legal?
<awvas> thats what i am asking
<jpds> awvas: Is it already registered?
<awvas> it is registered by another person, but i am talking with him to transfer it to me
<awvas> ubuntu.bg
<awvas> i've got the idea, but somehow he stole it from me haha, however i am talking with him to give me the domain
<awvas> but i was curious if it is legal to register it
<awvas> cuz i dont want troubles
<awvas> so? can i get my answer? please?
<GunnarHj> awvas: If you want a domain for a LoCo in Bulgaria, I suppose you'd better talk to Canonical. They have already registered ubuntu-bg.org.
<awvas> but my question is about ubuntu.bg is it worthy to ask the person who had already registered it to give it to me? is it legal is OK with the UBUNTU owners to have that domain? as i am not planning to distribute the OS
<GunnarHj> awvas: In Sweden, both ubuntu-se.org (the LoCo) and ubuntu.se exist. I'm not sure about the legal aspects, but I know there is a history of conflicts involved...
<awvas> yeah thats why i am asking, cuz i dont to be involved in any conflicts
<GunnarHj> awvas: If you really want to know about the legality, you should ask Canonical. I don't think anyone in the doc team can tell.
<awvas> so you mean to send a question from here http://partners.ubuntu.com/contact-us
<awvas> ?
<awvas> if yes, thank you very much for the discusion
<GunnarHj> awvas: I'd rather suggest https://rt.ubuntu.com/
<awvas> thank you
<GunnarHj> awvas: You're welcome. :)
<awvas> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2015-05-06
<user1397> this page needs some editing: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<user1397> I'm not sure how to edit wiki anymore, haven't done it for a number of years
<user1397> specifically, the 13.10 saucy entries should be removed as they are no longer supported
<user1397> and the 10.04 entries as well
<user1397> hmm I don't see an edit button anymore, any idea why?
<user1397> I'm logged in
#ubuntu-doc 2015-05-07
<Jordan_U> Would someone who is better than me at wiki formatting please edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide to clearly warn that Wubi should not be used any more? It is not supported in recent versions of Ubuntu and I (and most others familiar with the situation) would argue that it was never well maintained even when it was "supported".
#ubuntu-doc 2015-05-08
<pmatulis> when/how does http://manpages.ubuntu.com/ get updated (for releases)?
<pleia2> I'd ask kirkland in #ubuntu-release
<pleia2> that's his baby :)
<pmatulis> ok
#ubuntu-doc 2015-05-10
<ahoneybun> pleia2: its clear its not a over night thing true but I don;t think the benefits could be over looked
<pleia2> context: ahoneybun proposing that all documentation teams move to RST
<pleia2> ahoneybun: I definitely see benefits :)
<pleia2> it's just a lot of work
<ahoneybun> plus I;m maining talking about online docs not deskop atm
<ahoneybun> *mainly
<ahoneybun> *desktop
<pleia2> the desktop documents are online
<pleia2> just like xubuntu docs, ubuntu desktop docs are built and the output is published online
<ahoneybun> I see
<pleia2> the help.ubuntu.com/community/ wiki is supplimental to that
<ahoneybun> then the way I'm talking about would reverse - online -> desktop
 * pleia2 needs to publish the xubuntu docs for 15.04 soon :\
<ahoneybun> I saw that
<pleia2> not really, I assume the RST files would still reside in bzr?
<pleia2> and we don't want all the ubuntu wiki put into the official docs, that's a huge maintenance burden and ruins the whole point of an easy to contribute to wiki
<ahoneybun> you should be able to host them on LP
<ahoneybun> the core things really
<ahoneybun> pleia2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zAAODZFwQ2SGJCQ1YxRE1IaUU/view?usp=sharing
<pleia2> the core things are already in the desktop documentation
<pleia2> anyway, just some thoughts, I'm happy to make time to discuss further (maybe a doc team agenda item?) or answer questions about what we use later
 * pleia2 needs to go do Sunday things now :)
<ahoneybun> yes of course
<ahoneybun> I'll come to that meeting if I can
<ahoneybun> pleia2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zAAODZFwQ2SGJCQ1YxRE1IaUU/view?usp=sharing
<ahoneybun> opps
<ahoneybun> pleia2: http://imgur.com/PNm0oRX
<ahoneybun> also http://imgur.com/QbyFBVZ
<ahoneybun> and I'll let you go lol
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: i already proposed we move the ubuntu server guide to RST (or some variation like Git RST/markdown) but no one wants to help so it's not going to get done.  and just the server guide is quite a task, even with using a conversion tool (such as pandoc)
<ahoneybun> pmatulis: maybe if one project does and the others see the benefits
<ahoneybun> it could convice them
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: i did some tests and all links, in all documents break, in addition to the fancy docbook references to internal pages/sections of the guide
<ahoneybun> yea you would have to redo it all within the language
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: hint, start with the server guide, it's a more compact project and it does not have the constraints of the desktop docs (it's not a package)
<ahoneybun> pmatulis: I started moving the kubuntu docs by hand and it looks pretty darn nice in RST
<ahoneybun> but gsliva makes a point that having one language would stop others to help since they might use another language like TeX
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: if you *really* want to help convert the server guide to non-XML (Git Markdown; my preference) then join the doc team (if not already) and come to our next meeting (first tuesday of every month)
<pmatulis> ahoneybun: and this is what i did a while ago: https://github.com/petermatulis/serverguide
<ahoneybun> see that look so pretty to me
<ahoneybun> that is RTS though
<ahoneybun> so the next meeting is June 2nd pmatulis?
#ubuntu-doc 2016-05-09
<cadfan> In both Firefox and Chromium (Linux Mint 17.3), after logging in to Ubuntu One through wiki.ubuntu.com's login button I am unable to create a new page. I am trying to create a page for wiki.ubuntu.com/Cyfieithu in order to translate a project. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cyfieithu?action=edit on both browsers returns "You are not allowed to edit this page." despite being logged in. I have no extensions for either browser. This
<cadfan>  has been happening for a few days, is this a known bug at all?
<cadfan> Oh sorry I didn't read the page fully, I must join a team fist.
<cadfan> *first
#ubuntu-doc 2016-05-10
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommunityHelpWiki has been restored, but I had to follow up about getting the images back too
<pmatulis> pleia2, this wiki war is unfortunate. i wonder if IS can try to monitor this activity and determine the source of it
<pleia2> they're working on improving their tooling around handling it ticket 28491 is the current plan-of-attack thread if you're interestsed
<pleia2> and now all the images are back
<knome> hooray
#ubuntu-doc 2017-05-08
<jbicha> GunnarHj: congrats! is that your first GNOME commit?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Thanks. :) Well, while I have submitted a few patches to GNOME before, this was the first one which was properly formatted and thus could make it directly to git.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Is seb128 not around? Asking because of bug #1689321.
<jbicha> yeah, he might be out
<jbicha> GunnarHj: are you aware that there is long-standing policy that GNOME has no docs string freeze?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I saw that you mentioned it somewhere; didn't know before. That makes the point with that bug stronger, doesn't it?
<jbicha> I don't know
<jbicha> my point instead was I plan to ask gnome-doc-list to change that policy
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I see. ;) But does how would that affect Ubuntu?
<GunnarHj> s/does//
<jbicha> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-user-docs/log
<GunnarHj> Yeah, saw it.
<jbicha> gnome-user-docs 3.24.0 was released April 11, the Archive Admins let me upload it, but that was partly based on it only being used for Ubuntu GNOME
<jbicha> if you look at the timestamps, there was a translation-breaking commit less than 2 hours before the release
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I see. Indeed, introducing doc string freeze in order to give the translators a chance is a good idea.
<jbicha> the other reason the Archive Admins let it in is because well, I doubt 3.22 was that much better :|
<jbicha> so if we want docs 3.26 in 17.10, I think we should come up with a proposed doc string freeze & tarball release schedule
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I suppose we only want that if most of the application packages will be 3.26 in 17.10.
<ableto> Does anyone know who I might need to speak with about contributing to documentation? Thanks
<pleia2> ableto: there's no one person in particular, so you're welcome to just ask questions here, or on the mailing list
<ableto> oh ok, I was just curious how much experience a person would need in order to contribute. I have been in IT for 15 years, B.S in MIS, a lot of web dev experience; I'm considering a career in technical writing but I have basically no experience
<pleia2> we have had contributors of all levels really, even just reviewing the documentation and submitting bug reports with changes needed is a huge help since it's difficult for the team to keep up with every change from release to release
<pleia2> the wiki page has links to our various bits of documentation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
<pleia2> are you more interested in server docs or desktop?
<pleia2> either way, this is a good place to start: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation
<ableto> I don't have a preference, I'm mostly wanting to learn
<pleia2> I suggest doing some exploring in the wiki then to see what you'd be more interested in, they use different documentation formats so the workflows are slightly different but I think we have both paths pretty well documented
<pleia2> and feel free to ask questions along the way :)
<ableto> Thank you pleia2, I appreciate the help
#ubuntu-doc 2018-05-07
<marcbof> hi all
<marcbof> somebody here?
<marcbof> somebody here?'
#ubuntu-doc 2020-05-06
<pleia2> fixed :)
<pleia2> hello, logs!
#ubuntu-doc 2020-05-07
<dsmythies> Thanks all. Yes, I learned that the ubuntulog bot was gone. It is gone as of march 14th on a lot of channels. I really wanted to see previous day logs for the kernel channel, as I accidently left the room after asking something. I have a request in at rt.ubuntu.com 
<dsmythies> tomreyn: yes, that is the site, and yes, they don't show up if there hasn't been traffic for a long time. However, they do show up if there is traffic, but that ubuntulg bot is required. I found this site useful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<tomreyn> dsmythies: you possibly missed this response in -kernel: <apw> dsmythies: trigger process was jammed, should be coming through now
<tomreyn> also thanks for explaining what you were up to.
#ubuntu-doc 2020-05-08
<tomreyn> i guess this should be dropped: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/i386/pr01.html
<dsmythies> tomreyn: Yes, I did miss that response, but he repeated it after I expplined that i had left eh room by accident.
<dsmythies> tomreyn: I published the installation guide. The source will have to be fixed. we, the doc team don't own the source, we just publish it. I usually do the version bumps, because nobody else does, but the MP (Merge Proposal) just sits there, so I publish anyhow.
<dsmythies> reference: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+bug/1876151
<dsmythies> reference: https://code.launchpad.net/~dsmythies/installation-guide/ubuntu-20.04/+merge/382889
<dsmythies> by the way this: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/latest/%23ubuntu-doc.html is still broken. once my rt request gets past the queue wait, I'll bring it up.
<tomreyn> ah, looks like brian pushed it forwards. thanks for the links, dsmythies 
