#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-23
<AlanBell> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/23/review_exhibitions_british_library_out_of_this_world/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: oooh
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello
<diplo> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Two interesting links for you all this morning:
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://weatherspark.com/#!graphs;a=UK/Farnham
<TheOpenSourcerer> And http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/20/watch-a-landslide-ha.html (watch the short video) and listen to Benny Hill music at the same time.
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> \o
<nigelb> AlanBell: what happened with the monitors eventually? ;) Got 3 of em?
<gord> wow, ubuntu asked me for my password 11 times after logging in - thats a new record
<bigcalm> Well, it is Monday...
<hoover> mornin
<hoover> Montag ist Schontag biggie ;-)
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> gord: it's making sure you're fully awake
<gord> i'll just turn off auto-login, its not achieving what i set out to achieve ;)
 * AlanBell suggests gord writes his password on a postit note
<wintellect> Anyone here use Kubuntu?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<bigcalm> Aww
<bigcalm> One of the uupc presenters does afaik
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: why am I looking at that weather page about farnham?
<popey> yes, Mark does
<bigcalm> That's the fella :)
<bigcalm> Couldn't remember his name
<wintellect> What's his channel nick?
<popey> marxjohnson
<wintellect> thanks popey
<czajkowski> wintellect: or ask in #kubuntu
 * wintellect slaps himself in the face
<wintellect> czajkowski: thanks, stupid of me not to have checked for a #kubuntu first
<wintellect> will do that first
<czajkowski> wintellect: no worries :)
<czajkowski> you'll just find more users there possibly though some may be in here also
<czajkowski> tis a bit early
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I liked the interactivity of the map - you can change the location
<czajkowski> why is it seeing some peoples names in my inbox makes me wnat to just delete the threads
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I get that with client emails
<wintellect> On a side note - NetworkManager does dhcp on my wireless card on Ubuntu (unity desktop on an aceraspireone) - how do I configure it to automatically seek a specific access point?
<gord> i don't know what my cat is doing.. but it sounds a *lot* like mischief
<bigcalm> gord: it's in their mandate
<oimon> my dog has a habit of humping her bed when she wants to cause mischief
<bigcalm> I had the image of your dog humping your cats bed
<bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaanyway
<oimon> where were we ? ahem..ubuntu
<oimon> wintellect: off the top of my head, network manager -  edit connections - wireless - add a SSID to connect automatically to
<wintellect> oimon: ok, sweet. I'll try that later. Thanks
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ahhh, thought you were pointing out the weather itself âº
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you going on thursday to digital surrey?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I am.
<popey> Going to try to get there
<gord> y'know, we really shouldn't have spell check say that your name is spelt wrong, i mean we have that information available to it
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
<czajkowski> gord: TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!
<JonTheNiceGuy> gord++
<davmor2> I missed something interesting that gord said didn't I
<gord> *everything* i say is interesting
 * czajkowski throws gord a bickie 
<davmor2> gord: purhaps to you ;)
<JonTheNiceGuy> Nothing I say is interesting :(
<gord> try yelling it louder
<davmor2> gord: Your wrong it needs to be slower and louder for it to be interesting :P
<AlanBell> czajkowski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2u_DVkK1Rc
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://twitter.com/#!/TwopTwips/status/72591345604239360
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> Holiday complaints received by a tour operator http://paste.ubuntu.com/611749/
<oimon> DJones: number 1 is fair enough
<DJones> oimon: :)
<DJones> Had to laugh at number 23
<oimon> maybe that's why i holiday in england...can't get proper bacon in many other countries
<AlanBell> http://lists.ukuug.org/pipermail/announce/2011-May/000191.html tell the government how to use plone/drupal/joomla!
<MartijnVdS> Yes, and tell them to keep it updated to the latest version, not just install-and-forget
<MartijnVdS> (our sysadmins cry whenever Joomla in installed)
<oimon> AlanBell: alpha.gov are using ubuntu and django
<AlanBell> yeah, had a chat with one of the alpha.gov team last week
<AlanBell> should be talking this week with the cabinet office skunkworks team about setting up a new shapado site which is built with ruby on rails
 * Daviey is not a fan of RoR.
<AlanBell> I don't have a strong opinion on it
<MartijnVdS> Ruby is a bit scary
<bigcalm> Never used it myself
<MartijnVdS> have they fixed unicode handling yet?
<bigcalm> But have found that those who preach about RoR are arrogant
<bigcalm> Grrrr. The .otf I converted to .eot still isn't showing in IE
<bigcalm> Why why why does IE have to ignore standards?
<brobostigon> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host        anyone recognise that error, because i dont.
<brobostigon> and inauth.log it simplysays, refused connection.
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: run ssh with a few "-vvvv" - you probably need to remove the relevant line from your "~/.ssh/known_hosts" file
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, thank you.
<AlanBell> or fail2ban got you
<popey> Daviey: https://github.com/danielfm/pyruby
<popey> ""From now on you should be able to write Ruby code within a regular Python module"
<popey> https://github.com/danielfm/pyruby/blob/master/src/ruby.py
<BigRedS> why would you want to do that?
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> hah
<popey> âº
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/611757/
<popey> brobostigon: thats not -vvvv
<brobostigon> popey: ok, how do i pipe the output into a text file, so tht i can pastebin the entire output, please.
<brobostigon> or pipe it, directly into pastebinit.
<AlanBell> ssh -vvvv user@host 2>&1 |pastebinit
<brobostigon> thank you AlanBell
<brobostigon> 10:01:26 < AlanBell> ssh -vvvv user@host 2>&1 |pastebinit
<brobostigon> balls.
<brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/611760/
<brobostigon> there we go.
<AlanBell> I think you have been blocked by fail2ban or the other one
<BigRedS> denyhosts
<brobostigon> AlanBell: let me look in hosts.deny
<BigRedS> iptables -nL | grep <ip address>
<BigRedS> will tell you if fail2ban caught it
<BigRedS> (more accurately, it'll tell you if it's in iptables, but that's where fail2ban puts it)
<brobostigon> i dont have fail2ban, i have denyhosts
<AlanBell> brobostigon: can you get in though?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: via my ipv6 tunnel, yes.
<Daviey> fail2ban doesn't give that ssh error, as you cannot conenct at all.
<Daviey> That looks like a hosts.deny entry, therefore Denyhosts.
<brobostigon> i am just looking through deny.hosts to find my ipv4 addr.
<brobostigon> hosts.deny*
<bigcalm> Nice
<AlanBell> brobostigon: I wouldn't bother to remove it (it will just come back at some point) add yourself to hosts.allow
<brobostigon> yes, my ipv4addr is/was in hosts.deny
<brobostigon> AlanBell: goodthinking, yes.
<brobostigon> done, thank you everyone.
<Twinkletoes> I get a black screen when trying to install 11.04, I have to plug an external monitor in just to be able to see anything.  It's a laptop with a Radeon HD6650 card in it.  Is there anything I can do to fix this please?
<gord> BT are tempting me with 40mbit downstream >:(
<popey> 3 people from 217. addresses in a short period.
<popey> what are the chances
<popey> I guess BT or someone uses 217 then âº
<AlanBell> Twinkletoes: is that when booting from the live CD or when it is installed?
<DJones> popey: ISP/Organisation COLT Technology Services Group LImited
<jpds> popey: Well, IPv6 is going to confuse you.
<Daviey> popey, ewwwww!
<popey> âº
<popey> A common reaction Daviey
<DJones> Another one shows up as Zen internet
<MartijnVdS> "Lots of people from 2001:: addresses"
<jpds> 2001? I live in 2011.
<Daviey> MartijnVdS, I get more connections from fe80:: addresses :)
<Twinkletoes> AlanBell: Booting from the LiveCD/USB
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: yay link local
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: fe80::, the 169.254. of ipv6 :)
<Daviey> heh
<Twinkletoes> AlanBell: I've tried other distros too, and they complain about modesetting, if that's any help ("KMS:drm report modesetting isn't supported").  According to this article, Karmic had an update to fix it, but this is 11.04 so presumably includes that fix aswell (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/410058)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 410058 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Black screen with radeon KMS" [High,Fix released]
<shauno> was trying to explain 2000::/3 to someone earlier.  v6 prefixes are fun :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: v6 is fun :)
 * brobostigon  has hostnames for each ipv6 he has, so he doesnt need to remember ipv6 addr's.
<MartijnVdS> I use avahi for that
<MartijnVdS> it registers hostnames for all my v6 addresses at home
<MartijnVdS> or how-ever it works :)
<shauno> well, yeah.  memorizing addresses never was a fun idea.  but understanding the difference between 2* and f* is handy
<brobostigon> i didnt know that,
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ff00::!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will look into that.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: works by default on Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ping short_hostname_you_specified_during_installation
<MartijnVdS> or ing6
<MartijnVdS> ping6
<shauno> I have to specify .local at home.  works a treat tho
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: there only 2 ubuntu machines, 2 windows, one with haiku, and several other linux baseddevices.
<shauno> 'ssh herlaptop.local' "just works (tm)"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i get it now, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can install Bonjour (apple's implementation) on the Windows machine (part of itunes)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: those windows machines are my dads work machines.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: anyways, my router, nicely shares out ipv6 addr's. so hopefully those machines are picking up addr's aswell.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Win Vista and 7 automatically work, yes
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: eeek, my dads work still uses xp.
<shauno> you can still make that work if you really want to.  you can set avahi up to answer for another machine
<AlanBell> Twinkletoes: you might have more luck with the alternate CD, or even installing 10.10 and upgrading to 11.04 (I had to do that on a machine that got confused by grub on CD)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: v6 on XP is b0rken
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, i will discount those machines from the equation then.
<Twinkletoes> AlanBell: I'll give that a go, thank :)
<shauno> you can set hosts in /etc/avahi/hosts, so it'll publish them on behalf of other machines that aren't able to.  can be handy
<brobostigon> shauno: however for those to refer properly, those machines still need to be able to pickup ipv6 addr's properly.
<shauno> or have static v4 addresses
<brobostigon> yes.
<shauno> not that you're likely to be addressing his work machines often - just nice to know you can kludge around 'legacy' devices fairly tidily
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm> Grrr
<bigcalm> Well, router didn't die but the modem connection did
 * bigcalm shakes fist at VM
<bigcalm> Any reason why &ellipsis; might be showing &ellipsis; and no ... ?
<bigcalm> s/no/not
<gord> when you start running out of lion king characters to give to your devices as hostnames. you have too many devices....
<dutchie> bigcalm: sure it's &ellipsis; and not &amp;ellipsis;?
<dutchie> also, i'd just use unicode
<kazade> Twinkletoes, you could try asking questions in #radeon they can probably help
<bigcalm> dutchie: very sure, I typed it myself :) I ended up using ... because I'm lazy
<bigcalm> Horay for MoonPig reminding me that it's my fiancee's birthday on Saturday \o/
<bigcalm> Should get around to wrapping some presents
<DJones> bigcalm: So if it wasn't for MoonPig, would it be an ex-fiance?
<oimon> mooooooooonpig dot com
<bigcalm> DJones: I'm not noted for my memory. We were at my parents yesterday and I was talking about us coming back next Saturday. I turned to my fiancee to check that we weren't doing anything on that day
<oimon> shared calendars on smartphones are good for that
<oimon> we rarely double book stuff now
<bigcalm> It's more the fact that I should have remembered that is was her birthday on Saturday
<oimon> she should have been dropping hints about pressies for 3 months now
<Pendulum> oimon: he has all the pressies for her
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I'm a good boy like that
<bigcalm> I really hope she takes the stampler to work with her and uses it there
<bigcalm> Seems unlikely, but one can dream :)
<gord> anyone know any way of  getting policy-kit to work with a fingerprint reader?
<davmor2> gord: no but if you want to login there's an app for that :D
<gord> davmor2, oh really? an app?
<MartijnVdS> a napp
<davmor2> gord: yeap plugs into gdm I'll track it's name down for you if you haven't got it
<gord> davmor2, i found it, its useless :(
<davmor2> :(
<gord> because it logs in without a password, gnome-keyring doesn't unlock
<gord> so guess what happens...
<davmor2> type in a password
<gord> i'd rather type a password in once than have to use a fingerprint reader then type in a password eight thousand times
<gord> #jadedbypolicykitandgnomekeyring
<BigRedS> I've never understood the idea of using fingerprint readers for auth on PCs
<davmor2> gord: there is a modification that Ubuntu added that enabled keyring login from autologin maybe you could track that down
<gord> davmor2, when was this? certainly not the case as of now
<AlanBell> gord: I guess it would make sense to unlock the screensaver
<davmor2> gord: I know it was in hardy and lucid for oem support
<czajkowski> http://www.lionheartrecruitment.com/
<czajkowski> look at that
<gord> its a vicious cycle, they can't hire anyone to fix their site because their site is broken
<DJones> czajkowski: Is that the one that wouldn't accept your .doc files?
<czajkowski> DJones: no that's just another muppet site I've found
<czajkowski> I swear if some sites could just be tested! a little bit
<czajkowski> would save job seekers hair loss!
<gord> so... new laptop. need to get my u1 stuff on it, chances of me just copying the files over working?
<MartijnVdS> gord: worked for me
<MartijnVdS> gord: make sure you kill u1sdtool before you copy
<MartijnVdS> then restart when copy is don
<MartijnVdS> e
<oimon> isn't the idea that u1 will fill the folder up for you?
<gord> i have several tens of gb of data :)
<gord> i don't reeeeally want to spend the next few weeks just syncing u1
<oimon> so it's you that's slowing it down for everyone else :)
<davmor2> gord: you can copy paste and then let u1 sync it should read everything like it's a back up but annoy Aq till he tells you for sure though
<gord> i basically spend all day in #u1 annoying people with questions ;)
<davmor2> gord: no just Aq he'll soon point you at the right person to get you to leave him alone :D
<BigRedS> Does (should) network manager default to using wired networks where they're available?
<BigRedS> I can't find any config one way or the other in nm-applet
<gord> BigRedS, how do you mean default?
<davmor2> BigRedS: yes it does from my experience
<DaveMorris> I'm using the shared connection option in network manger on Lucid to enable a machine to act as a gateway.  It works fine, and is running a DHCP server to assign IPs to those behind the gateway.  Does anyone know where the config file is for this DHCP so I can change the range it offers out since I want to have fixed IPs without any clashing.
<BigRedS> gord: as in, without needing to be configured to do that
<gord> BigRedS, configured to do what? :) do you want connections to go over ethernet before wifi?
<BigRedS> yeah
<gord> ah - yeah it'll do that
<BigRedS> if I boot up and a remembered wifi network is available, and there's a good network in eth0, will it bring up eth0, wlan0, or both?
<gord> both
<BigRedS> ahh, but default route is eth0?
<gord> should be
<BigRedS> and do you know if that's configurable anywhere?
<gord> it might be a case of first come first served, your ethernet is gonna come up before wifi
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<Azelphur> hahaha, sony got hacked again
<Azelphur> That's 6 times in a row now?
<Azelphur> this time it's sony music greece, complete with leaked user database
<gord> i think tbh they have just become a target now
<Azelphur> indeed
<BigRedS> in a row? Can break ins be non-consecutive?
<BigRedS> :)
<Azelphur> BigRedS: I call in a row all over the past month or so?
<DaveMorris> we just don't hear about all the failed attempts
<Azelphur> hehe
<DJones> Probably don't hear about all the sucessful attempts either
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<popey> http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/
<popey> should exist
<popey> and just say "YES"
<Azelphur> popey: I'm up for that. :D
<Azelphur> although my webserver isn't bomb proof atm so maybe not such a good idea :p
<Azelphur> popey: that's interesting, if you put that URL into chrome, it offers you a google search for "has sony been hacked again". It figured out where the words are from a url with no spaces :)
<gord> laptop says 9:45 remaining :)
<oimon> http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/
<oimon> just had a flashback
<oimon> isn't google chromium supposed to have something like firefox awesome bar? doesn't always find the url in my history :(
<gord> its not as awesome
<oimon> gord: i'm discovering that's the case
<dogmatic69> google chrome / chromium :)
<oimon> i shouldn't feel this exhuasted on a monday :(
<davmor2> oimon: could be worse, could be sunday still
<oimon> i did 7 hours flat out yesterday ,sound engineering a live event, now today i'm at work ...hmm
<oimon> woo the brand new puppet book just landed on my desk
<DJones> oimon: Sound engineering? setting up or running a sound system or all of it
<oimon> DJones: the whole shebang. i was part of a team - we setup our own gear in 5 screens of the local cineworld mulitplex for a few hours of simultaneous broadcast and mixing .
<oimon> you can do stuff with technology now that wasn't possible a few years ago.
<oimon> since we use the cinema digital projectors and run audio over cat5 to slave devices
<DJones> Sounds  big job
<oimon> yeah, do it every other sunday so it's getting easier, but this sunday was a biggun
<DJones> what is the broadcast for
<oimon> djones: annual international day - video clip here http://jubileechurchlondon.org/events/international-day/
<DJones> Heh, reminds me of springharvest
<oimon> have u been?
<DJones> Yeah, about the last 7 years
<DJones> pm if you want
<Azelphur> popey: lol, aircondirect seriously tried to screw me over xD
<Azelphur> I ordered for next day on thursday and it didn't arrive for 2 days, phoned them up and they said it would be here on monday, After arguing with them over the fact that I had actually placed an order, then arguing over whether they should be allowed to deliver an item next week that was paid for as next day, they finally agree'd to give me a refund
<Azelphur> apparently "refund" means deliver the item on monday anyway and give me Â£5 \o/
<Azelphur> I refused the delivery, though. Not letting them get away that easy \o/
<shauno> I wish places would let you decide what day you want it to arrive on, rather than whatever approximates next day, etc
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> shauno: their site actually said "Delivery for: Tomorrow" and charged me an extra Â£15 for the privilege XD
<oimon> just spent 30 minutes processing cashback claims totally Â£500 for some hp printers...talk about a palaver
<davmor2> popey: "http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/" == True /n wait sony=="bankrupt"  /n "http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/" == False or code to that effect :)
<oimon> does PSN require credit card details?
<davmor2> oimon: nope only buying stuff from them does
<shauno> I just get annoyed when I only have one day off work, so I'm trying to time the purchase precisely to get it to arrive while I'm home :/
<gord> oimon, davmor2 even then, you can buy cards instead from shops/online. thats what i do
<oimon> PS3 hardware seems to have longer life than Xbox
<shauno> waiting to get something atm .. have to get it thursday afternoon for it to arrive monday  lol
<davmor2> gord: makes sense, I just buy games second hand when they are cheap as I only really like adventure rpg style games that can be played forever and a day in single player mode :D
<oimon> shauno: maybe invent a secure dropbox and go on dragons den
<shauno> too early on thursday, it'll arrive friday.  too late thursday, it'll ship friday & arrive tuesday :(
<gord> davmor2, so - not expecting to see you much once the new elder scrolls game comes out? ;)
<davmor2> gord: I got the first one a couple of months ago for a Â£5 :)
<gord> davmor2, the first one? the old old dos one?
<davmor2> gord: that was available on PS3
<gord> davmor2, ah, the *forth* one ;)
<davmor2> gord: yeah that's the one :)
<reaper4334> the first one's pretty hard to play these days, but the second is pretty good with Dosbox
<davmor2> gord: yet to play it still trooping through Dragon Age
<reaper4334> Dragon Age any good?
<davmor2> reaper4334: Dragon Age is great fun
<reaper4334> davmor2: is it a long game?
<davmor2> reaper4334: kept me going for a while and I'm yet to complete it, there are a load of sub-missions to make it longer I've only completed about 50% of those so there is another game in it just to complete those as well as downloadable content
<davmor2> reaper4334: by a while I had it for xmas and I'm still playing it, and spend 2-3+ hours at the weekend on it
<reaper4334> davmor2: sounds pretty good :D I might have to buy it soon
<davmor2> reaper4334: Dragon Age 2 is out now too which is meant to be bigger still
<gord> davmor2, no its way smaller
<reaper4334> davmor2: I played the demo of the second one, but it seemed more of a hack 'n' slash than an RPG
<gord> its one city, an outside area and a mine
<davmor2> gord: It's meant to be bigger
<gord> whoever told you that is a liar, a filthy liar ;)
<davmor2> gord: they could mean gameplay wise
<gord> gameplay wise its way smaller, i beat it in a week of playing a bit in the evenings
<davmor2> gord: that's disappointing
<gord> davmor2, well they took less than a year to make it... i mean, yeah. its disappointing
<davmor2> gord: so I'll get it when it's in the bargain bin then :)
<gord> davmor2, sure, for what its worth, for what little content there is, its pretty good :)
<davmor2> gord: haha
<oimon> there's no sadder face than the face of someone coming to the help desk with a broken hard drive..and no backs
<oimon> s/backs/backups
<davmor2> gord: can you test something for me please, in unity setup mumble with F12 as the press to speak button, have a few chats and see if the launch remain in sight permanently for the rest of the session
<davmor2> launcher even
<oimon> has anyone used a site called goodreads.com? it's like a facebook for bookreaders
<gord> davmor2, i'm not quite sure what you mean
<davmor2> gord: normal behaviour is for app launcher to autohide correct?
<DJones> oimon: INteresting site, I do a lot of reading, could be quite useful for me
<gord> davmor2, sure, but what does f12 have to do with that?
<davmor2> gord: So on mumble I have press to talk set with the F12 button.  After every team call the launcher nolonger hides  I can only assume this is down to pressing F12 repeatedly
<gord> davmor2, at what point does the launcher stop hiding?
<davmor2> gord: It's out while I have mumble open when I minimise mumble it just stays in place
<gord> davmor2, why would it move when you minimise mumble? are you using dodge active window?
<davmor2> gord: I'm using whatever the default is.  but all the windows behind mumble are maximised and the launcher remains in place.
<gord> davmor2, the default is to dodge windows, which means if any window gets in the way of the launcher it should hide :) i don't think your jamming on f12 has anything to do with it
<davmor2> gord: pre mumble usage it moves in and out
<gord> its just stuck for some other reason
<davmor2> gord: would a vid capture help?  I can get one tomorrow possibly
<gord> davmor2, its a long standing bug - i don't know a huge amount about it tbh
<gord> check on launchpad, see if others have it too
<davmor2> gord will do just wondered if there was a simple fix that didn't kill half the system :D
<czajkowski> something to make everyone smile at this hour of the day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbnxX7VEuU
<Twinkletoes> AlanBell: If you can remember my qyuestion about the blank screen when booting from the 11.04 desktop USB?  Well, 10.10 is absolutely fine... except that it doesn't recognise my wireless NIC :(
<davmor2> czajkowski: you have too much time on your hands
<czajkowski> davmor2: it was meant to make people happy at this hour of the day
<davmor2> czajkowski: haha it worked :)
<gord> i haven't watched uk tv in a long time... is that comedy now? i don't get it :(
<gord> then again i never understood all that Catherine Tate stuff either, everyone loved that =\
<popey> I really don't like her either
<Azelphur> popey: 1.6ghash and counting :)
<DJones> I've only seen her in Dr Who and I wasn't impressed with her in that
<davmor2> gord: bring back the porridge days hey :)
<Azelphur> 217w/node :p
<Azelphur> shop forgot to ship me my switch so I'm running at <50% atm
<czajkowski> DJones: noooo she was fantastic as DONNA NOBLE!
<gord> shouting is not the same as acting =\
 * czajkowski revokes gords bickies 
<DJones> gord +1
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam
<gord> i am not falling in to your trap dear sir.
<gord> for those that click on tvtropes links, never do return
<shauno> noble felt like it only worked because they wrote the role around her
<AlanBell> dead chicken :(
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: :( natural causes?
<AlanBell> yeah, goldie was pretty old, sat down all day and didn't get up
<gord> :(
<davmor2> gord: no but it does get you understood
<davmor2> AlanBell: Bummer sorry about that.
<davmor2> AlanBell: how have the other chickens taken it?
<AlanBell> they were a bit flustered when I took her away
<davmor2> AlanBell: same thing happened with our bird when the other died, give it a couple of weeks they should be right as reign again
<Azelphur> in Ubuntu is /tmp in ram?
<Azelphur> or is there anything that is in ram I can use?
<BigRedS> /dev/shm should be
<popey> Azelphur: type "mount"
<Azelphur> ty, that's the one :P
<gord> bluetooth and suspend work on the new laptop... this... this has never happened to me before
<davmor2> gord: don't worry I'm sure you'll figure out a way to break it
<Psychobudgie> I think I'm reaching my 'really p*ssed off' threshold with ubuntu and that is something I thought I'd never say
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: all software has fantastic ability to be annoying
<BigRedS> the trick isn't finding one that doesn't annoy you, but the one that's least annoying
<Psychobudgie> not to the point ubuntu is annoying me at the moment
<Psychobudgie> it's approaching vista levels of annoying
<MartijnVdS> which bits?
<Psychobudgie> Banshee, dbus, unity, compiz instability
<Psychobudgie> I can think of more
<MartijnVdS> dbus is unstable?
<Psychobudgie> it is here
<MartijnVdS> I haven't had the other programs in that list crash on me either since release
<MartijnVdS> you must be doing something wrong -- Nvidia drievrs?
<Psychobudgie> no I'm not doing anything wrong
<Psychobudgie> though the suggestion made me happy
<Psychobudgie> heh
<Psychobudgie> I've only been using Linux on the desktop since 98 so I'm a bit of a noob
<MartijnVdS> yeah, 13 years is way too short ;)
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: do your problems occur in a clean default install as well (or on the live cd)
<Psychobudgie> clean default install
<Psychobudgie> installed yesterday to ensure I'm not going mad
<Twinkletoes> How do I edit grub.cfg to make the default boot, Windows?  grub.cfg says "Do not edit this file", and I can't see any setting in /etc/default/grub to change the default
<Psychobudgie> same problems
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: have you tried running memtest overnight?
<Psychobudgie> it's not me
<Psychobudgie> it's it
<gord> if dbus is crashing, you have bigger problems
<Psychobudgie> it that shall not be named
<BigRedS> Twinkletoes: you need to fight with the mess that is /etc/grub.d
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Grrr....
<BigRedS> Twinkletoes: welcome to progress :)
 * BigRedS notes that grub-legacy isn't in the repos in natty :(
<Twinkletoes> Did they really have to make it so confusing?
<Psychobudgie> checked with maverick yesterday before reinstalling natty
<Psychobudgie> in maverick all is good and lovely
<Psychobudgie> in natty all is bad and not awesome
<Psychobudgie> I can pretty much render natty useless by plugging in my samsung t10
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Finally I am on Dell Vostro 3500 running Ubuntu 11.04 :)
<Psychobudgie> the device mounts fine, nautilus opens it thenthe awfulness that appears to be Banshee tries to talk to the device, maxing out dbus then it crashes dragging down the nautilus window which launched it which in turn vanishes leaving a blank overlay on the screen which can't be closed without killing compiz
<Psychobudgie> and so on
<Psychobudgie> it's comical
<Twinkletoes> BigRedS: StartupManager did the trick ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Yall better show up now - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/05/23/yall-better-show-up-now/
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please guide me about configuring MS Exchange Calendar 2007 in lightning running on Thunderbird 3.1.10 in Ubuntu 11.04 ?
<advancedbraindam> hi its first time for me and not sure that is it
<advancedbraindam> is there anyone i can talk to?
<advancedbraindam> have one question to ask
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: shoot
<advancedbraindam> cool
<advancedbraindam> is there still a support and upgrades for ubuntu 10.10 as for couple of days have not been recieving any updates
<advancedbraindam> ??
<kaushal> yes it is
<brobostigon> !10.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) was the thirteenth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.10/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1010
<brobostigon> eeek.
<advancedbraindam> so why i am unable to download any
<advancedbraindam> ?
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: Please pastebin the sources.list
<advancedbraindam> how do i do that?
<kaushal> cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<brobostigon> sudo pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
<kaushal> and copy it and paste it using pastebin service
<kaushal> More details https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin
<advancedbraindam> # deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 10.10 _Maverick Meerkat_ - Release i386 (20101007)]/ maverick main restricted
<advancedbraindam> # See http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes for how to upgrade to
<advancedbraindam> # newer versions of the distribution.
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick main restricted
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick main restricted
<advancedbraindam> ## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
<advancedbraindam> ## distribution.
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates main restricted
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates main restricted
<advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
<advancedbraindam> ## team. Also, please note that software in universe WILL NOT receive any
<advancedbraindam> ## review or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
<brobostigon> eeekkk
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick universe
<mgdm> advancedbraindam: don't paste things in here
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick universe
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates universe
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates universe
<advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
<advancedbraindam> ## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
<advancedbraindam> ## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
<advancedbraindam> ## multiverse WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
<advancedbraindam> ## security team.
<Laney> haha
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick multiverse
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick multiverse
<advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates multiverse
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates multiverse
<brobostigon> eeekkk
<advancedbraindam> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
<advancedbraindam> ## repository.
<advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
<advancedbraindam> ## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
<advancedbraindam> ## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
<advancedbraindam> ## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review
<advancedbraindam> ## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
 * mgdm hands around the lifebelts
<advancedbraindam> # deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<advancedbraindam> # deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<advancedbraindam> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from Canonical's
<advancedbraindam> ## 'partner' repository.
<advancedbraindam> ## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by Canonical and the
<advancedbraindam> ## respective vendors as a service to Ubuntu users.
<advancedbraindam> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
<brobostigon> ohdear.
<advancedbraindam> ## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by third-party
<advancedbraindam> ## developers who want to ship their latest software.
<advancedbraindam> deb http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick main
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick main
<advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security main restricted
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security main restricted
<advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security universe
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security universe
<advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security multiverse
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security multiverse
<advancedbraindam> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
<advancedbraindam> deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
<advancedbraindam> not sure is that the way you wanted me to do it
<Laney> no
<mgdm> It's not :)
<brobostigon> oh my.
<Myrtti> fail
<advancedbraindam> just read the first line on wiki
 * brobostigon switches off.
<advancedbraindam> my apologize
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: stop it please
<kaushal> you are flooding the channel
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin
<advancedbraindam> im sorry my experience its not as good as i wish to be
<kaushal> advancedbraindam: please read wiki
<hamitron> ours isn't now ;)
<advancedbraindam> im electrician
<brobostigon> hence i suggested pastebinit.
<kaushal> as its self explanatory
<brobostigon> argggh.
<advancedbraindam> cool i will have a look
<mgdm> advancedbraindam: it's cool. Don't worry. easiest thing is that pastebin gadget on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin, like kaushal says
<advancedbraindam> i kicked windows os in january and switched to ubuntu
<mgdm> advancedbraindam: just for future reference :)
<advancedbraindam> pastebin s cool
<advancedbraindam> http://pastebin.com/uLq85zMW
<advancedbraindam> here is my post
<Psychobudgie> problem solved
<Psychobudgie> 'apt-get remove banshee' 'apt-get install rhythmbox'
<Psychobudgie> :D
<Psychobudgie> dbus doesn't go nuts now
<skybinary> hiya, i have been going nuts with compiz since i upgraded to 11.04 i have no desktop items nor can i right-click there
<skybinary> i am almost sure i turned something off in compiz
<advancedbraindam> so what you think
<advancedbraindam> what could be a reason for not getting any downloads?
<advancedbraindam> as in upgrades
<advancedbraindam> ??
<AlanBell> some more tickets have been released, and they are going fast http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com
<skybinary> is it weird that my nautilus home folder pops up after login instead of my desktop and icons?
<MartijnVdS> slightly
<BigRedS> firefox 4 is "html5-compliant" isn't it?
<mgdm> err, well
<mgdm> that's a rather complex question :-) HTML5 is a catchall for a bunch of technologies
<BigRedS> yeah, I know it's not a spec yet
<mgdm> so it depends largely on what bit you want, but yeah,m for the most part
<BigRedS> vimeo's just told me to come back with an "html5-compliant browser" and I wondered why
<mgdm> it's maybe that FF doesn't speak whatever codec they're trying to deliver to you
<BigRedS> ahh yeah. I'm not interested in the video that much, I just wondered if I was wrong in thinking that ff4 did html5
<skybinary> do you thing
<skybinary> lol typo
<skybinary> do you think resetting gnome by using rm -rf .gnome gnome2 .gconfd .metacity would help my icons reappear?
<BigRedS> seems rather brute force
<skybinary> oh lol
<BigRedS> you're quite likely to just break gnome
<BigRedS> it's rather fragile and bad at telling you what's going on these days
<skybinary> i think unity broke me
<BigRedS> you think unity's bad? you should try gnome3
<skybinary> it is hard to tell, looks purty but
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I managed to work out why Banshee is  breaking everything. Essentially as soon as an MTP device is plugged in, ubuntu mounts the device then asks you what you wish to do. Once the device is mounted by the OS, Banshee cannot interface via mtp and instead of giving an error message (rhythmbox gives an error), it bugs out and hangs the application which in turn appears to cause the dbus interface to max out the cpu causing all sorts
<Psychobudgie> of fun.
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: sounds like bug filing time
<Psychobudgie> yup
<BigRedS> aha, that sounds like at least two bugs
<Psychobudgie> three as if the initial nautilus window asking to what do is still open when it dies, it kills the window but leaves the process running which in turn causes compiz to leave a blank overlay where the window should be
<MartijnVdS> shotwell copes better with this
<MartijnVdS> I plug in my camera, then open shotwell, which asks if I want to unmount it so shotwell can use i t
<Psychobudgie> if you then click on an application and the link or button is beneath the overlay you have to move the window to get to the thing you want to click on
<Psychobudgie> it's like dominoes
<skybinary> besides right-clicking desktop how else can i change my theme?
<BigRedS> which DE are you using?
<BigRedS> unity, gnome2, gnome3?
<skybinary> gnome 2.32.1 but it said that when i was in unity
<BigRedS> said what?
<skybinary> i looked at system monitor to discover that
<BigRedS> but it's in <system> off the main panel, <preferences><appearence>
<skybinary> background is the first option there, no appearance
<BigRedS> oooh
<BigRedS> sounds like something's a bit broken then
 * skybinary sighs
<skybinary> i tried gnome3 too for a bit, seems simple
<BigRedS> I couldn't get my head round the workspaces
<Psychobudgie> workspaces are one of the big improvements in gnome 3 for me
<BigRedS> really? How do you keep track of where things are?
<Psychobudgie> like the idea of dynamically adding and removing them as and when required
<BigRedS> I disliked the way workspace four kept becoming workspace 3 just because I emptied workspace 2
<jacobw> evening
<Psychobudgie> I actually prefer that
<BigRedS> really?
<Psychobudgie> hate wasted areas
<BigRedS> Well, I'm glad it works for someone :)
<jacobw> its not good for muscle memory
<Psychobudgie> if I need 3 desktops I want 3 desktops, I don't want 4
<BigRedS> But then when you're going for something you left on ws4, you need to check by 2 and 3 first, in case it's collapsed them for you
<jacobw> wasted space on virtual desktops :s
<Psychobudgie> If I want 5 I don't want to have to hit the settings to add one
<jacobw> there's a logic in that somewhere
<BigRedS> The easy addition I do like
<BigRedS> well, it doesn't annoy me :)
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, I didn't look but I would put money on being able to fix the desktops via settings
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: yeah, I found a way claiming to
<Psychobudgie> Gnome-desktop is not unity, it's not locked down
<BigRedS> which broke gnome :(
<BigRedS> and then I got annoyed with it, and noted that gnome 3 doesn't fix any of the issues I have with gnome 2
<BigRedS> so I might as well stick with the devil I know
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, where you running from the gnome ppa?
<BigRedS> yeah, on 11.04
<Psychobudgie> the only issue I had with it was to do with samba
<Psychobudgie> for whatever reason, samba just would not work correctly with gnome 3 running
<BigRedS> hmm
<BigRedS> bit of an odd conflict
<Psychobudgie> yup
<skybinary> if i install gnome colour chooser from the software centre, will i be able to change my theme then, dya think?
<Psychobudgie> but a known issue apparantly
<Psychobudgie> they had workarounds but to be honest it was more trouble than it's worth
<BigRedS> what was the cause?
<Psychobudgie> I can see me going back to kde if gnome and unity doesn't sort themselves out
<BigRedS> I find KDE way more annoying than unity
<Psychobudgie> it's to do with filesharing handling within gnome-desktop. It basically, in a nutshell, doesn't work properly
<BigRedS> I've been trying several DEs recently. The least annoying, at about equals, are Gnome2 and Unity
<BigRedS> ahhh, so it is gnome3's interaction with samba, rather than some random conflict
<Psychobudgie> yeah
<Psychobudgie> if it was me in charge of ubuntu, I would have moved to docky
<Psychobudgie> heh
 * Psychobudgie <3 Docky
<gord> its not like we have the main docky developer making the unity launcher or anything
<gord> and the guy who started AWN running the whole thing
<gord> that would be craaaazy
<skybinary> the software centre history is a bit of a life saver
<Psychobudgie> I don't care if jesus himself was involved, it's awful
<BigRedS> is it? which bit's teh launcher?
<BigRedS> the buttons on the left?
<Psychobudgie> yup
<Psychobudgie> thats them
<BigRedS> what's wrong with that? Seems fine to me
<Psychobudgie> it looks awful for a start
<Psychobudgie> oh and I didn't even get to the ........Global Menu
<BigRedS> yeah, I've not used the menu yet
<jacobw> have you tried kde BigRedS ?
<BigRedS> yeah
<Psychobudgie> who ever suggested that at the developer meeting should be bagged, tagged and shipped to whatever OS we currently hate
<BigRedS> it's great, but every time I login I need to reconfigure something
<BigRedS> and it's got all these widgets that seem to exist only to get in the way
<Psychobudgie> my main problem with unity is that unless I know exactly what I want to do everything takes longer to do
<Psychobudgie> it's intuitive in the way that cheese isn't
<BigRedS> mmm, I've not had much need for menus since noticing alt+f2
<Psychobudgie> I want to browse for an app, right click, click, click, click
<jacobw> last time i tried it, i got far too fustrated with the file copying mechanism not working properly
<BigRedS> which is handy, 'cause they're always painful to use
<Psychobudgie> on gnome, click, click
<BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, and the single-click-open keeps getting me
<Psychobudgie> oh and it looks like the graphic designer was recruited from my local primary school
<Psychobudgie> for the partially sighted
<Psychobudgie> and colour blind
<Psychobudgie> apart from that it's awesome
<jacobw> i think the design of kde is often better.. but it just doesn't work when you need it to
<BigRedS> it doesn't work when I don't need it to, either :)
<Psychobudgie> kde has it's issues, but I always think they kept on the right track with the workflow
<BigRedS> nah, KDE feels horribly horribly over-designed to me. Like someone set out to make the most 'modern' looking DE possible, and kept redoing it until everything was transparent or gradiented, with curved edges and fade-outs and all the rest of that crap
<BigRedS> it's sort-of usable, but it's butt-ugly and forgetful
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, what like Gnome 3?
<jacobw> kontact is definately better than evolution, for example.
<jacobw> evolution is just so slow :|
<Psychobudgie> yup
<Psychobudgie> I'd agree with that
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: gnome 3's more subtle in design, just more crazy in process
<Psychobudgie> always like kontact
<Psychobudgie> I always seem to run in to font issues whenever I venture into kde with ubuntu
<Psychobudgie> no idea why
<Psychobudgie> and I don't mean nice, aww, I can fix that quite easily, issues
<Psychobudgie> I mean, omg, wtf has happened to my screen, is my monitor broke, has my graphics card gimped out
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I've never had those
<BigRedS> I do have exceedingly low aesthetic expectations though
<Psychobudgie> heheh
<Psychobudgie> no wonder you like unity
<Psychobudgie> :P
<jacobw> i don't really car for aesthitics
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: I don't *like* it, I just have nothing much against it
<BigRedS> :)
<Psychobudgie> you tolerate it
<BigRedS> mm, I think it's complete indifference
<gord> quite a lot of people love the visuals of unity
<BigRedS> the bits I use are exactly gnome2
<Psychobudgie> I tried so hard to tolerate it but I found I got a much better experience from classic gnome and docky
<BigRedS> alt+f2, ctrl+alt+arrow keys
<Psychobudgie> unity looks great on a notebook
<BigRedS> I don't think anyone does menus 'well', but it's nice to see people bothering to try
<Psychobudgie> on my desktop however it looks like a notebook frontend on a desktop
<Psychobudgie> the only thing it's missing is a big button on the desktop that says 'the internet'
<mrwarmth> I preferred unity to classic gnome but it just runs too slowly on my pc, I changed to dwm and love it
<gord> pretty sure thats called "firefox"
<AlanBell> I think the concept of unity is OK
<gord> we can rename it if you like
<AlanBell> the application lense doesn't make much sense to me
<gord> in general?
<gord> i mean, i like launching applications
<BigRedS> oh yeah, I heard about those
<AlanBell> in that it isn't structured by category
<BigRedS> i didn't actually find out what it is
<AlanBell> I only found out yesterday (having used it for 8 months) that there is a category dropdown in the top right
<gord> ah - i get you - yeah that bit sucks, we know :)
<BigRedS> can things exist in two categories yet?
<Psychobudgie> AlanBell, you'll remember it's there though
<AlanBell> it seems to try awefuly hard to sell me stuff to download
<Psychobudgie> AlanBell, as it's colour scheme is out of sync with everything else
<gord> things have always been able to exist in more than one category, part of the desktop file spec
<AlanBell> and doesn't actually spend enough time showing me where the stuff I have is
<AlanBell> "installed" vs "available to download" isn't the top level split I want to see
<Psychobudgie> AlanBell, the cynic in me says that it will be selling us stuff for money in years to come
<AlanBell> and there is too much "click here to see the rest of the stuff you wanted to see in the first place"
<Psychobudgie> AlanBell, agree completely with that
<AlanBell> Psychobudgie: there are paid apps already, I am totally cool with that
<Psychobudgie> AlanBell, not got a problem with that, I get the feeling however that the 'available to download' is going to be for that purpose
<Psychobudgie> think itunes
<AlanBell> throughout 10.10 I learned to have a terminal open and launch stuff from the command line because I couldn't find it in the unity menu
<AlanBell> I now do super+type stuff until it finds it, so that is an improvement a bit
<gord> i lik ethe available for download stuff, i'v honestly used it quite a lot
<AlanBell> but I struggle to find stuff without typing the command line
<gord> why can't you just type in the search box what you would type in the command line?
<Psychobudgie> I personally don't see what is so wrong with a drop down/ pop up menu
<Psychobudgie> if it aint broke don't invent something that is
<AlanBell> I don't mind that it offers stuff for download, but that should be secondary to stuff I already have
<gord> it is?
<gord> how do you mean secondary?
<AlanBell> so it should start with big friendly buttons for the categories (like software centre does)
<Azelphur> http://superuser.com/questions/287560/i-deleted-files-from-my-linux-boxs-boot-directory-and-now-it-wont-boot epic fail...
<AlanBell> then show me *all* the stuff in that category I have
<AlanBell> and click here to see cool apps in this category available to download
<Psychobudgie> wouldn't you rather see maybe 5 things you have and 5 things you don't?
<AlanBell> no
<Psychobudgie> heh
<Psychobudgie> when I typed that I felt more stupid doing so
<gord> ah you mean when you are poking your way through?
<gord> rather than searching
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> like a normal person would :)
<Psychobudgie> people should do that more often, type something out and if it makes you feel stupid the idea is awful
<AlanBell> it also means that you can't transition from the gnome menus
<AlanBell> if it used to be applications-graphics-gimp it could easily have mapped to click the applications lens, click the graphics category, click the gimp
<AlanBell> rather than click the lens, see random stuff, click more on the installed applications, stare at hundreds of unsorted icons looking for wilber
<BigRedS> oh, so these categories aren't the ones from the gnome menu?
<AlanBell> or for the clueful click the applications lens use the ugly grey menu to find graphics, wonder why it isn't there, end up installing something else from the software centre that looks neat
<gord> they are
<AlanBell> the categories by default are frequently used applications, installed applications and stuff to download
<BigRedS> Oh
<AlanBell> (from memory, I have broken my compiz right now)
<BigRedS> I thought of "graphics" and "internet" and "office" as categories
<AlanBell> me too, you don't see them
<AlanBell> they are hidden in a dropdown menu that doesn't look like a dropdown menu
<BigRedS> and it's long puzzled me that, say, evolution's in office but not internet. or vice versa, whichever it is
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> it's also the crashiest piece of software in the default install
<BigRedS> well, yeah
<hamitron> unity is good for all of us....
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> evolution's always been shipped by default and used by nobody
<gord> i use evolution
<hamitron> if we make it so nobody else switches to the OS, nobody will bother trying to exploit it with virus, so it makes us safe
<gord> most people i know use evolution
<BigRedS> really?
<MartijnVdS> gord: are they made to?
<Psychobudgie> In order to make unity usable for me I have to uninstall scrollbar overlays and global menus
<gord> evolution is fine
<BigRedS> don't you ever find that there's better things to be doing than arguing with a jumped up mail client, though?
<Psychobudgie> evolution is good, far better than thunderbird
<BigRedS> actually, that said, there's a guy at work who uses evolution
<BigRedS> it does seem to work these days
<Psychobudgie> works well here
 * hamitron is having problems with seamonkey atm
<BigRedS> maybe it's just gained such a horrible reputation that most people wont touch it just based on past experience
<gord> evolution got imap+ support in the maverick cycle, made it 20x better
<gord> hum. i enabled a feature on my laptop, makes the laptop suspend when the camera can't detect any faces. that was very very annoying
<BigRedS> haha
<Psychobudgie> lo
<Psychobudgie> l
<gord> it also has something called "airbag protection" - which as far as i can tell is designed to detect shocks to stop the hard-drive getting hurt. seems like if your detecting a shock you are already too late
<BigRedS> yeah, that works on the grounds that large shocks are preceeded by smaller ones IIRC
<AlanBell> there are some that detect zero G and assume they are falling and park the heads before they land
<gord> ahh that would make sense
<AlanBell> I had a thinkpad which did not successfully do that
<Psychobudgie> not necessarily, used to run tandon packs back in  the 80's which had HD's wrapped in what could best be described as shock absorbers. You could drop one of those things off a third story window onto concrete
<gord> i'll just get an SSD sometime, not now. because i like spending money on food, but in the future
<AlanBell> apparently the coffee table was too low
<gord> noted: if i'm gonna drop this thinkpad. drop it out of a 4 story building
<Psychobudgie> 3 story
<Psychobudgie> I won't guarantee for 4
<ali1234> the thinkpad accelerometer doesn't work in linux unless you install a special bit of software
<ali1234> actually same goes for windows but it comes preinstalled
<jacobw> tht's pretty clever stuff
<popey> evening all
<bigcalm> Howdy popey
<bigcalm> I need to suggest some plugin sharing services to a client. So far on my list are sharethis.com and addthis.com. Anybody have any other suggestions?
<jacobw> cool tech stuff on bbc2 now
 * AlanBell returns from farnborough with another 17 inch monitor
<dwatkins> I bought a CRT-based machine at the weekend
<popey> hehe
<popey> farnborough!?
 * popey checks all his monitors are still intact
<gord> the monitor thief strikes again!
<AlanBell> any monitor thief coming round to my house had better bring a transit
<gord> they are at least LCD's right? would hate to think your being cluttered up with CRTs
<dwatkins> I don't mind a bit of clutter if it's an old iMac.
<dwatkins> anyhoo, off ot get keys, toodleoo
<AlanBell> gord: LCDs, I bid on three on ebay in the hope that I would get one
<daubers> Evening
<mgdm> 'lo
<jacobw> o/
<daubers> List is bust these past few days
<daubers> s/bust/busy
<jacobw> as long as it doesn't need a bailout :p
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Team Plans For Oneiric - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/23/community-team-plans-for-oneiric/
<Azelphur> just secured a $1.50/CPM advertising deal for my game servers :D
<Azelphur> profitable game servers are now profitable
<bigcalm> CPM?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: thousand hits
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Views or clicks?
<Azelphur> views
<bigcalm> Sweet
<Azelphur> indeed :D
<Azelphur> they came to me too, emailed me and asked politely for advertising space haha
<Azelphur> I get 150-200k hits a month, so it's decent
<ujjain> is compliment not a british word?
<bigcalm> ujjain: it is
<ujjain> bigcalm: ah k
<dogmatic69_> o/
<dogmatic69_> could anyone tell me what (if any) is an advantage of running my OS on a RAID
<dogmatic69_> eg 2x (or 4x) 32gig SSD's
<AlanBell> dogmatic69_: there are different types of RAID
<dogmatic69_> and also different drives for ~/ vs one big one for everything
<dogmatic69_> ye
<dogmatic69_> RAID5 would be 4x
<dogmatic69_> or RAID1? for 2x
<dogmatic69_> i know the basics like RAID5 gives me 3x smallest drive and one can die
<AlanBell> 2 disks you can do mirroring (sensible), or striping (dangerous performance hack)
<AlanBell> raid5 is a decent option if you have enough disks (preferably matched disks)
<dogmatic69_> i would be looking to get a bit faster, im thinking with a RAID this is true
<AlanBell> it can be a fraction faster, but with a bit of processor overhead
<dogmatic69_> ah ok
<dogmatic69_> so the main (only) advantage is the thing not randomly ding
<dogmatic69_> *dying
<dogmatic69_> does ubuntu do one of them fancy custom RAID setups?
<dogmatic69_> been playing with one of these and it seems pretty good compared to normal raid http://www.synology.com/us/products/features/RAID.php
<BigRedS> istr md's not in the livecd
<BigRedS> so you need to apt-get it, then you can install to raid
<BigRedS> (sw raid)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-24
<AlanBell> dogmatic69_: also throw in power consumption and upgradeability to your calculations
<dogmatic69_> upgradeabillity?
<dogmatic69_> power not an issue really
<dogmatic69_> got a 800w(ish) power supply
<BigRedS> if you just want speed, rather than buying twice the number of disks, just get a faster one
<AlanBell> I guess with SSDs the power doesn't change when they are being used or not used
<dogmatic69_> some redundancy is also good
<AlanBell> with spinning disks in a raid they can't really spin down
<dogmatic69_> but i wonder how much its needed if the ~/ is in something like synology
<BigRedS> yeah, but I'd rather 1 fast disk, 1 slow disk and a nightly rsync to two slow disks in raid
<BigRedS> assumign you can cope with losing everything since the last rsync n the event of disk failure
<BigRedS> but a raid will faithfully duplicate Bad Things anyway, so even with raid you'll have a backup
<dogmatic69_> hmm, so need backups even with a synology box
<dogmatic69_> backups for the backups :S
<BigRedS> well 'need' is perhaps a bit strong, but raid isn't backup
<BigRedS> raid is redundancy
<BigRedS> if you accidentally delete half the contents of your raid, it's instantly deleted. That's what backups are for
<BigRedS> Raid is for when a disk fails but you need the system to stay up
<BigRedS> raid *mostly* fulfils the criteria for backup in the event of hardware failure, but user error is way more common
<dogmatic69_> ah, right
<dogmatic69_> so im on the correct path, as ive read that SSD's die for nothing
<dogmatic69_> well, all the time i mean
<BigRedS> either way, though, you're never going to completely make everything safe, so you need to just pick sme amount of backup/redundancy that you want
<BigRedS> yeah, I've heard they tend to go without warning
<dogmatic69_> and it would just be a pita to reinstall everything every few months (read about 11 months is the average)
 * dogmatic69_ has never had backups
<BigRedS> mm, I'd be surprised if it's not gone up more recently
<BigRedS> I gather they're gaining reliability at quite a pace
<BigRedS> ISTR there's two flavours, too, a cheap way of doing it and a reliable way. the cheap way is in all the consumer kit, the reliable way is about twice the cost and sold to server people
<dogmatic69_> so is there something similar to that mac backup thingy
<BigRedS> time machine?
<dogmatic69_> ye, thats it
<dogmatic69_> cd / && git init
<dogmatic69_> :D
<BigRedS> LVM snapshotting is teh closest I can think of, or version control
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<dogmatic69_> lol, people do that?
<BigRedS> version control? yeah. of /etc/ and /home isn't uncommon
<BigRedS> Oh. Time machine is just a cronned backup
<dogmatic69_> crontab -e -> 59 23 * * * cd /&& git add . -m `date...`
<BigRedS> runs hourly, creating hardlinks for existing files etc.
<dogmatic69_> and push obviously :P
<BigRedS> so any backup app should do that
<dogmatic69_> ye, but it does only changes, keeps hourly for the day, daily for the last week, weekly for the last month and monthly till the backup drive is full
<BigRedS> yeah, that's not an uncommon way for a backup thing to work
<BigRedS> especially something user-friendly
<BigRedS> i don't know of any off the top of my head, though
<BigRedS> and I've just noticed the time; I should be asleep by now really
<dogmatic69_> k
<dogmatic69_> would be awesome if it was time machine compatible as that synology thing just works out the box for time machine
<dogmatic69_> think i will def get one of them, the one at work is awesome
<dogmatic69_> 4x 3TB drives for 9TB
<dogmatic69_> you can mix and match with the hybrid RAID they do
<BigRedS> yeah, didn't drobo do similar?
<dogmatic69_> and it apparently as an 'apt-get' type repository
<dogmatic69_> ye, but i think they are more web2.0 for the cool kids
<BigRedS> oh for installing add-ons?
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> oh yeah, there's an 'apps' bit of their site
<BigRedS> very 2.0
<dogmatic69_> ye, it runs a slim version of *nix
<dogmatic69_> the synology one that is
<dogmatic69_> and the web GUI is very awesome, mad cgi skills
<BigRedS> yeah, I assume pretty much everything's running a linux kernel these days
<BigRedS> I'm normally right :)
<dogmatic69_> hehe
<dogmatic69_> at least its not in a JAVA vm :S
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69_> binned the android last week
<BigRedS> what've you replaced it with/
<dogmatic69_> iPhone4 :D
<dogmatic69_> <3
<BigRedS> haha
<dogmatic69_> sooo much better
<dogmatic69_> and it goes nicely with my ipad :P
<BigRedS> there's some BSD in there :)
 * dogmatic69_ checks on the mac mini update
<dogmatic69_> but... ubuntu stays ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Anyway, sleep. that's what I need to do :)
<BigRedS> I keep getting distracted...
<dogmatic69_> same
<dogmatic69_> almost 1am
<BigRedS> eek
<BigRedS> righto, I'm actually off now
<dogmatic69_> tx for the help
<BigRedS> pft, no probs
<ali1234> ever since i put 16gb in my computer ubuntu just flies
<ali1234> it's great
<ali1234> it never ever goes slow
<ali1234> especially firefox really shows a difference
<ali1234> the difference between 4gb and 16gb is like night and day
<ging> really? what do you run on it?
<ali1234> oh you know
<ali1234> ubuntu
<ali1234> firefox
<ali1234> pidgin
<ali1234> that's about it
<ging> does it have several gigs of cached memory?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> 11GB
<ging> thats crazy
<ali1234> i know
<ali1234> i suspect the large part of the problem is the way firefox caches everything in ram and in disk
<ali1234> as i explained before
<ali1234> i suspect that means that everything in firefox's disk cache ends up in ram due to filesystem caching
<ali1234> and then firefox's ram cache gets swapped out due to swappiness
<ging> there is 11gigs of stuff going in in your computer which you have no idea about
<ali1234> no, it's filesystem cache
<ging> your computer is plotting against you in there, any day now it will figure away to reroute mains into your keyboard
<ali1234> only 3.5gb is really used
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/2jZndW25
<ali1234> 8gb would probably be enough
<ali1234> but sometimes i like to run VMs as well
<ali1234> that stuff about ddr using 15w/gb is completely false btw
<ging> you have 32gig of swap?
<ali1234> yes
<ging> i think the rule of thumb for having 2x as much swap as memory went out the window when pcs started to get memory in gigabytes
<ali1234> when i had 4gb
<ali1234> i quite often saw up to 12gb and more of swap in use
<ali1234> due to badly written programs
<ali1234> that's why i have 32gb
<ali1234> and it's why i know have 16gb ram too
<ali1234> my next project will be to build a quiet cooling system for my new uber video card, on the cheap
<ali1234> i'm thinking removing the onboard fan, replace with 2x 120mm case fans, some ducting, and a t piece
<ging> i just cleared half my ram by killing hardware monitor
<ali1234> haha
<ali1234> yes, on maverick?
<ali1234> gnome-system-monitor?
<ging> no it's lucid
<ali1234> ah even worse
<ging> and it was system monitor 1.4.2
<ali1234> i got that bug fixed upstream
<ali1234> it's fixed in natty
<ali1234> g-s-m polls a lot of dbus calls
<ali1234> and then never frees the responses it gets, ever
<ali1234> the filesystems tab is particularly bad
<ali1234> *polled
<ging> well it did when i killed it
<ali1234> &was
<ali1234> etc
<ali1234> it's fixed now
<ali1234> yeah killing it will free the memory of course :)
<ging> for ages i had been wondering why my memory seemed to get worse over time
<ging> everyone telling me no linux doesnt need to be restarted it should run forever without problems, well mine kept slowing down after a week or 2
<ali1234> yeah that doesn't apply to gnome
<ging> now how do i get it to drop it's swap back into memory?
<ali1234> turn off all swap partition :)
<ali1234> i'm looking at air conditioning stuff on b&q
<ali1234> it's amazing, idk why people don't use it to cool computers more
<ali1234> a lot of it is the perfect size for computer bays
<ging> i see no things of such size
<ging> when i own my own house aircondition is going to be high on my list of things to get installed
<ging> people who say oh it's never that hot in this country we dont need it mah mah mah mah mah, should try living a day in august as a ginger
<ali1234> i have to leave my windows open and heating off pretty much all year because of computers
<MartijnVdS> morning all
<AlanBell> o/
<popey> morning all
<AlanBell> o/
<awilkins> Anyone know where I can get recordings of the video streams of yesterdays Public Accounts Committee on the NHS IT programme?
<awilkins> Didn't find out it was going on until I was trapped on a train.
<AlanBell> awilkins: yes
<AlanBell> I downloaded the whole thing it is an epic
<awilkins> So I heard (disclaimer ; I work for NPfIT)
<AlanBell> http://www.twofourdigital.net/UKParliament/Archive/0000016153.wmv.asx
<AlanBell> particularly enjoyed the BT bloke blaming the existence of facebook and twitter for their management failure
<awilkins> Aha Aha Aha.
<awilkins> Does it start off silent? Or do I just not have the right codecs for Totem?
<AlanBell> 3 minutes of silence
<awilkins> I shall change players and dump the stream to disk anyway, methinks
<AlanBell> I used vlc
<AlanBell> in act 2 they explain how it was a total disaster from the start, they have billions left to spend and it would be cheaper to spend the billions than cancel the contract
<AlanBell> because CSC and BT don't think they are in breach of contract so might sue the NHS if they cancel
 * awilkins thinks it's all utterly mental
<diplo> morning all
<awilkins> The NHS are large enough as an entity to create any kind of enterprise they require for support from scratch, so why go to a profit-seeking contractor...
<AlanBell> they deployed 130+ interim systems that were previously declared unfit for purpose, because they couldn't build the one they were contracted to build
<awilkins> Ooooh, it's *already* really good.
<awilkins> Total squirming by this bloke when told "Back in 2003, as professionals you might have taken the view that this was undeliverable"
<awilkins> It's like the Apprentice, but I give a toss
<AlanBell> the bloke is BT, the American lady is CSC
<AlanBell> great bit at about 1 hour 20 when they stumble onto the subject of security claims over patient records
<awilkins> I have an interest there... I've got what I think is a partially workable design that might sort-of-work
<AlanBell> they explain that the clinician will ask the patient for permission to access the medical records
<AlanBell> "what if the paitent says no"
<AlanBell> errr . . . . errr . . . .
<awilkins> In my system, if the patient says no, the doctor doesn't get access to their medical record
<AlanBell> how does the patient enforce that?
<awilkins> And that's enforced cryptographically
<AlanBell> so does the patient have a PIN or smartcard or something?
<awilkins> Smartcard, I would think
<MartijnVdS> How does the patient enforce that if he's dying after being hit by a bus?
<MartijnVdS> and his smartcard was crushed
<AlanBell> ok, that is basically the question the PAC asked, if the patient has no portion of the key they can't say no
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Well, I think that position is an extreme anyway... but this sort of question is useful
<AlanBell> personally I think the GP should hold the keys
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Really, in the "card crushed by a bus" scenario you are no worse off than default
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: It's the most important one. I want people to know my medical history if they want to revive me after an accident :)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Then you would not be one of the people withholding all your medical records from doctors, presumably
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Maybe in non-accident circumstances, I would be
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, My system does provide for differential access levels (again, crypto enforced)
<awilkins> So you could have a summary sheet that detailed things people need to know if you're hit by a bus (allergies, etc) but keep the details of your infatuation with goats locked in your psych records
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> but what if I'm hit by a bus while .. exercising .. my infatuation with a goat ;)
<awilkins> I think the goat will just have to pray that his BUPA premiums are up to date
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
<MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
<scumbag> Afternoon
<awilkins> AlanBell, I agree with keyholders only being parties with what's called a "Legitimate Relationship" (LR) in the trade.
<awilkins> AlanBell, Specifically, by default, you naturally have a key to any record you create, and the patient and the record creator initially negotiate on how open their record will be (keys signed by GP practice, keys signed by trust, etc)
 * TheOpenSourcerer fires up his WinXP and OS X VMs to test a new Joomla! module he wrote last night.
 * TheOpenSourcerer grumbles about having to have a Win 7 VM soon so he can test with IE 9 & beyond... He reminds AlanBell about the licenses we have.
<TheAshMan> How much of a pain in the arse is it to install Ubuntu on a iMac?
<TheOpenSourcerer> TheAshMan: Dunno popey will probably know though.
<TheAshMan> I imagine it wouldn't be too bad, being *nix an'all
<DJones> I seem to remember reading that there can be some major problems with certain mac's
<TheAshMan> hmm :/
<awilkins> Try a LiveThumb and see what the hardware support is like
<TheAshMan> awilkins: Good idea!
<diplo> Any one know who wrote a blog post about using Quicklists with ssh ? I read it a week or two ago but can't seem to find it atm
<awilkins> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4536294249/more-quicklists  ?
<diplo> looking now ta
<diplo> My google foo seems to have taken a tumble recently
<diplo> that's the one, cheers awilkins
<diplo> !
<TheOpenSourcerer> It takes all sorts... http://www.massterra.com/
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: From a quick companies house search "The 30.06.10 accounts indicate that the company is either dormant or no longer
<DJones> trades.trades
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't say I am surprised... Bet he didn't get many cheques.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It would cost Â£1,680,000 to send me into space at his prices. :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ex. VAT I assume.
<DJones> No, looks as though its never traded
<DJones> It might depend, a lot of public transport costs are vat exempt, ferrys etc, is there any difference to this?
<AlanBell> "other bodily fluids" um, eww!
<DJones>  How you will be involved in space travel will be explained once you have completed a confidentiality agreement which you must sign and return to us by post.
<MooDoo> hello
<popey> moo
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> Ooo, next version of the Linux Kernel might be 2.8.0 or 3.0
<DJones> Ah well, that'll be nvidia not working for about 12 months :)
<BigRedS> mm. and there's (again) talk of 2011.x.y and the like
<MartijnVdS> what is this? Gentoo?
<BigRedS> which I'm not sure I like, but I don't know why. I think I just can't see the kernel *not* being 2.x.x
<popey> morning kazade
<TheAshMan> Oooo, popey, I've been told you're the person to ask about install ubuntu on an iMac
<popey> O RLY
<popey> !mac
<lubotu3> For help on installing and using Ubuntu on a mac, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<TheAshMan> lol
<TheAshMan> Ta!
<kazade> morning popey
<wintellect> :(  Installed Kubuntu on a spare box - but I get a blank screen every time I logout. The cli or KDM never return :'(
<wintellect> Got a Radeon X300
<wintellect> I'm assuming it's an X issue
<oimon> try alt-sysrq-K
<DJones> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/24/twitter_tweetdeck/ Shame they don't mention any source for the story
<wintellect> oimon: which key is "sysrq"?
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: print screen (read the key :))
<oimon> wintellect: it's near/on print screen
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: and oimon:  Ahhh
<gord> http://blog.jitbit.com/2011/05/what-if-drivers-were-hired-like.html Â¬_Â¬
<wintellect> oimon: presumably that's a "lowercase" K and not a shift-k, right?
<oimon> wintellect: don't try it until yuo experience the problem or it will kill your current X session
<oimon> yep
<wintellect> ok
<wintellect> will try at lunchtime - much appreciated
<wintellect> OOC - what does that key combination do? Reset X?
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
<wintellect> thanks MartijnVdS
<oimon> yes, effectively, kills all processes on the virtual console, so you should get a gdm/kdm /login
<MartijnVdS> I had a different issue today
<oimon> wioll prob need to do ctrl-alt-sysrq-k actually
<MartijnVdS> Moved my mouse to get the screen to turn back on.. and it turned back on
<MartijnVdS> but it was black, all I could see was my mouse pointer (which changed shape as I moved over the different windows)
<MartijnVdS> Ctrl+Alt+F1 -> still worked
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> Aloha
<bigcalm> czajkowski: *hugs* :)
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski just because he's not done it in awile 
<bigcalm> Would that be a cattle prod?
 * czajkowski stabs MooDoo 
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski 
<MooDoo> :D
<wintellect> oimon: if that key combination fixes it - os there anything I can do to resolve my issue - or is that key combination the "fix" until a new release of X?
<wintellect> s/os/is
<oimon> wintellect: dunno, i was just offering a workaround until the helpful #kubuntu or #radeon people can help you :D
<oimon> is #radeon even a room?
<wintellect> apparently, it is
<DJones> Why when I use a machine and the gui update manager to check for updates does it say there are no updates, but when I ssh into the same machine it says there are 86 updates?
<bigcalm> DJones: you could have a stale /etc/motd
<DJones> Possibly, been doing it for about a week, but just used vnc & ssh to check for updates and seems to have cured it
<bigcalm> Goodo
<dogmatic69> DJones: i just use terminal update now, also have issues with the gui
<DJones> dogmatic69: If it does it again, I'll have to try that
<dogmatic69> DJones: i have issues with jenkins, would not update in gui because the repo was not trusted or something
<dogmatic69> in terminal it has a 'are you sure' question which the gui does not handle
<dogmatic69> so it just stops everything, then you got to scroll through the list, untick it and go again :/
<DJones> untrusted repo is normally that it doesn't have a ppa's key etc, but I gues if a specific repo doesn't have a key it can never get one
<AlanBell> awilkins: enjoy the rest of it?
<awilkins> AlanBell, Still watching, in fits and starts, but it's very amusing so far
<awilkins> I think the government suffers from the habit of going with big industry because that's what works for procurements which produce material objects
<awilkins> They need to get the hang of the idea that you can just conjure software out of the aether so you don't need people with huge capital to produce it (and that may actually work against them).
<awilkins> I mean, what huge software company has actually innovated in a way that didn't involve buying some smart startup (or being a smart startup in the first place)?
<AlanBell> totally true
<awilkins> Infrastructure - yes. But TBH, the infrastructure is bobbins
<kazade> AHA! Just bought a Sega Master System 2 on Ebay :D
<awilkins> N3 (the NHS segregated network) has a total of 30Mbit/s symmetric as a gateway to the greater internet (AFAIK). Utterly inadequate.
<AlanBell> and you can see them in the PAC talking about Rio and saying it is perfectly reasonable to pay 1M/hospital for it, they are questioning why it cost 8.9M/hospital
<awilkins> yes, just got to that bit
<awilkins> NHS Mail - they moved from Samsung Contact to Exchange
<gord> kazade, my megadrive is *superior* to your sega master system!
<gord> sorry, i got flashes of being 10 years old again
<awilkins> So we went from being able to read out mail over IMAP to either using Outlook or the crappy web portal
<awilkins> And you have a 200MB mailbox limit and the search blows chunks
<awilkins> Why why why, if Google can give me free gratis for nothing, 8GB of mail space and a search that goes -pchow!- , for nothing but the privilege of data mining my loathsome ramblings for adverts I never view... why wouldn't you just bung them Â£50 a year per user and have a million-man email system that actually works well....
<awilkins> And Office - we chucked the NHS-wide enterprise contract for Office licenses
<AlanBell> the cabinet office chucked that
<AlanBell> it was on the wrong budget
<awilkins> Presumably Office costs us in excess of 10s of millions of quid a year in licensing.
<AlanBell> yup
<awilkins> For a few percent of that you could hire several full time C++ developers to work on LibreOffice.
<awilkins> And a few more Pythonistas to migrate horrific old VBA macros to Python
<AlanBell> yup
<oimon> awilkins: " And Office - we chucked the NHS-wide enterprise contract for Office licenses"
<oimon> what do you mean? you got rid of office? or paid microsoft for a site licence thingy
<awilkins> oimon, We had an agreement that covered enterprise-wide use of MS Office in the NHS
<awilkins> oimon, This was cancelled and now trusts have to negotiate their own licenses
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> oh i see
<awilkins> oimon, Also, NHS staff were previously allowed Office to use at home at Cost of Media as a perk - this is no longer the case
<oimon> awilkins: my Uni is going the opposite way - about to pay MS for a campus agreement every year...
<oimon> the problem is, 70% or more of my dept use openoffice rather than MS products,
<awilkins> oimon, MS loves that kind of thing
<oimon> they are microsftising the whole campus against the staff wishes
<awilkins> oimon, As does any corporate entity - they love getting their brand and products into educational settings
<BigRedS> yeah, get people to learn your thing while they still want to learn something, see if you can have them not bother to learn anybody else's
<BigRedS> didn't Adobe almost publicly state that their market share is grounded in students pirating their software?
<awilkins> I'm sure it is
<DJones> How does this seem spec & prcie wise, I know its not offering android 3.0, but seems reasonable http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-2-Android-2-1-EPAD-TABLET-PC-ZT-180-e-reader-UK-/120656021215
<BigRedS> Actually, this was pre-macromedia-purchase. I suspect Flash on its own gets them a lot of CS license sales
<awilkins> If they made their DRM scheme actually hard to break, two things would happen i) Students wouldn't use it as much ii) Much more work would be done on the OSS products in the same niche
<awilkins> From an educational POV, I think proprietary products have so much less utility for learning because you can't poke around in their innards
<BigRedS> yeah. And if students stop falling out of uni fluent in Adobe, their employers will use whatever it is that the students found to replace for free
<davmor2> morning ubuntu-ukers
<awilkins> I can understand it in trade schools, because you can successfully argue that these products are what they will use at work
<mrwarmth> morning
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<DJones> Morning mrwarmth
<BigRedS> awilkins: I think that's true for compting students, but I'm not sure there's much an art student will gain specifically from the freedom of Inkscape/GIMP/whatever over the prop. equivalents
<BigRedS> for example
 * czajkowski puts davmor2 on the step, shhhh 
<BigRedS> (except being able to have their own copy with no issues, which is a *massive* win at uni(
<davmor2> czajkowski: no :P
<oimon> here's how it went at my employer: consultant says this is what you need, although i don't know anything about how the university works. uni boss says OK.
<BigRedS> yeah, that's unis trying to emulate business :(
<awilkins> BigRedS, Possibly not ; the flipside is that Inkscape/GIMP/Whatever would gain massively from having the input of a whole bunch of art students, even if it's just constructive criticism
<awilkins> Possibly helping them to eclipse the commercial products
<oimon> DJones: lacking in RAM methinks
<BigRedS> awilkins: yeah, that's partly why I want more unis to use free software
<BigRedS> 'cause I want ranty students filing bug reports that make it better
<BigRedS> but I don't think it's easy to explain the direct benefits to the students. Especially the ones who don't want to rant about software
<DJones> oimon: Yes, but seems upgradable with sd cards (At least thats what the "TF card" seems to be, although never heard of TF card before
<oimon> also, "Extended: TF card, U disk" - not sure what this means, but external storage is crucial too
<awilkins> Tiny Flash ?  :-)
<DJones> oimon: TF = Transflash
<DJones> Original name for MicroSD from what I can read
<oimon> lol
<oimon> glad they changed the name
<mrwarmth> I'm calling them that from now on
<FND_> g'day all - my new laptop has a Sandy Bridge CPU, which apparently isn't fully supported yet in 11.04 (noisy fan, plus Ubuntu froze on me just now)
<FND_> what's the easiest way to get the latest kernel (2.6.39)?
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<BigRedS> oooh. that *is* easy
<FND_> thanks - I remember looking into that PPA a while ago, but it didn't work as I'd expected
<FND_> I guess I should use rc4-natty rather than rc7-oneiric?
<BigRedS> else, I suspect that the 'debian way' will work just as well under Ubuntu
<FND_> oh right, I remember why that PPA wasn't good enough - it doesn't provide PAE kernels
<FND_> BigRedS: what's the Debian way - compiling it manually?
<BigRedS> nah, it's in-between that and a PPA
<BigRedS> you use kernel-package to make a .deb out of your source
<BigRedS> oh, but it requires that the source package for the version you want be in the repo
<BigRedS> which isn't what you want
<BigRedS> I forget we're not all luddites :)
<FND_> so ... basically, there is no easy way then?
<BigRedS> well, building your own isn't that hard
<BigRedS> you could, presumably, get the source from that ppa and build it the debian way from that?
<BigRedS> assuming they provide sources
<DJones> Heh, a work colleague has just said that her daughter was given a spelling test at school yesterday...the list of words they had to spell was given to them typed on a sheet of paper
<FND_> do you have a link that describes the procedure, BigRedS?
<mrwarmth> DJones, lol
<BigRedS> FND_: http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/notes/debian/kernel-build.html looks about right
<FND_> thank you
<mrwarmth> BigRedS, would adding this ppa work? https://launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa
<mrwarmth> I did something similar a while ago but I can't remember properly, but it worked
<BigRedS> Ooh, that expects vanilla kernels. I suppose there's no reason to need the repo ones, you just don't get the Debian/Ubuntu patches that way. But there's no way to get debian/ubuntu patches on .39 yet
<FND_> are those patches significant?
<FND_> mrwarmth: that PPA doesn't provide PAE kernels AFAICT
<FND_> also, it only goes up to RC4 for Natty
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<BigRedS> FND_: Occasionally :) I've lost track, I've not felt the need for a non-repo kernel in a long while
<FND_> I guess I'll look into building the kernel from scratch - grub should make it easy to revert to the official one if needed
<BigRedS> yeah, just boot from the other one
<FND> actually
<FND> I might as well try the Natty RC4 one before I go off building my own
<FND> it might be Good Enough until Oneiric is released
<BigRedS> FND: what are you actually setting out to acheive?
<FND> a) quiet the fan b) not have another freeze like before
<BigRedS> Is this a learning excercise/just wanting new shiny things, or is there something particilar in the new kernels that you want?
<selinuxium> Hi guys... I keep losing the task bar icon for my internet/wireless connection..
<selinuxium> What process is this?
<FND> the 2.6.39 has proper support for Sandy Bridge CPUs, BigRedS - so I expect things will be more smooth there
<DJones> selinuxium: Isn't it nm-applet
<mrwarmth> selinuxium, do you mean the applet in the tray? I *think* it's nm-applet
<selinuxium> cheers guys
<BigRedS> FND: Ahh, well, it's worth a try I suppose, but I'd expect the ubuntu/debian patched kernels to be more stable
<selinuxium> nm-applet still buggy for me..
<selinuxium> connection made then loose icon...
<oimon> FND which processor do you have?
<BigRedS> try restarting network-manager?
<FND> BigRedS: I'm just about to install http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.39-rc4-natty/
<BigRedS> /etc/init.d/network-manager restart
<BigRedS> fixes so many network problems for me
<BigRedS> (short term)
<selinuxium> network working, icon keeps failing..
<BigRedS> FND: aha, that looks suitable
<FND> oimon: Intel Core i7-2620M 2,7GHz
<BigRedS> selinuxium: hm, bit more peculiar. You can start nm-applet in an xterm and see what it says when it exits?
<oimon> FND: is the processor basically supported but not th egraphics ?
<FND> oimon: I don't know - I have read though that Sandy Bridge chips are much better supported in 2.6.39
<FND> FWIW, I don't have a dedicated GPU, just the integrated Intel GMA HD3000
<oimon> i'm about to buy a load of sandy bridge machines...looks like i'll need to do some serious testing on an initial device first then
<FND> well, everything works fine - it's just that the fan control appears suboptimal, plus the freezing I mentioned (happened twice in two days, but that might just be Ubuntu being shit ;) )
<oimon> FND: i'll be using them with RHEL/SL linux so i think i have to wait until SL 6.1 is out
<FND> well, good luck
<oimon> yeah ..centos 6.0 is not even out yet!
<FND> rebooting to test this kernel, brb
<BigRedS> in Firefox, if I type abcd:efghij it assumes that 'abcd' is a protocol with which to access efghij. Shouldn't it check for a :// rather than a : ?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> http is the about the only protocol that has // at the start, I have no idea why it does
<BigRedS> Oh, I thought that was something of a de-facto 'standard' that HTTP started and everybody followed
<BigRedS> bah
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme
<kazade> gord, I've got a MD2 and Dreamcast... just need a Saturn to complete the set :)
 * BigRedS resigns himself to copying "Error:....." search terms into teh actual search box :(
<oimon> ctrl-K jumps to the search box on firefox & chromium
<BigRedS> yeah
<AlanBell> ok, so some start with // and some don't. Possibly to do with whether they are hierachical
<BigRedS> but ctrl-L is heavily ingrained in my muscle memory
<gord> kazade, md2? eww
<BigRedS> (and ctrl-t leaves you with the address bar focused)
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: that gets me all the time too, chrome is a bit more smart about that though
<Laney> yes it indicates that the path is hierarchical
<BigRedS> I'm just looking to see if there's a way to explicitly set all the protocols I want Firefox to think it can handle
<BigRedS> and if it can't handle, say 'error:', just search for it
<BigRedS> well, the former's done, it's the latter I'd like to be possible
<dogmatic69> sudo apt-get install googlechrome :)
<DJones> dogmatic69: s/googlechrome/chromium-browser :)
<BigRedS> but I want my add-ons! :)
<FND> well, everything still seems to work - except the bluetooth mouse, which isn't tragic
<oimon> i wonder how many minecraft inspired games we'll get over the next 5 years? http://www.terraria.org/ <<
<DJones> That reminds me more of Lemmings
<gord> inspired is a generous word to use ;)
<oimon> looking at the oggcamp list...there's a whole lot of people going
<bigcalm> Now all they need are some people to speak
<BigRedS> oh yeah, that'd probably help...
<oimon> still haven't seen the vids from oggcamp2010..
<AlanBell> vids from oggcamp 2011 will be up *fast*
<oimon> :D
<kazade> gord, I'm rebuilding my childhood collection, I'm buying the exact same versions of everything I had when I was a kid (before I foolishly sold them off!)
<mrwarmth> DJones, does chromium-browser do bookmark syncing like google-chrome?
<kazade> gord, So, SMS2, MD2, Saturn, Dreamcast (only missing the Saturn now)
<DJones> mrwarmth: yes it does
<mrwarmth> DJones, I'm switching now!
<DJones> mrwarmth: I use it rather than installing the 3rd party repo for the official google chrome
<mrwarmth> DJones, yes I don't like doing that either, plus all the chrome store stuff is kind of annoying
<screen-x> Good afternoon ubuntu-uk people :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings screen-x
<mrwarmth> afternoon, screen-x
<dogmatic69> o/
 * oimon wonders why the 80 or so superinjunctions aren't listed on wikileaks?
<MooDoo> oimon: who cares lol
<oimon> MooDoo: i would have thought wikileaks would since it's about censorship of the press
<AlanBell> if the press would stop printing celebrity shagging stories and printed news instead they wouldn't end up being censored
<MooDoo> i like they assume anyone gives a monkeys
<BigRedS> people do
<BigRedS> if people didn't, they wouldn't sell papers
<AlanBell> they get confused by stuff that is "in the public interest" and stuff that "interests the public"
<MooDoo> sigh
<popey> http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2011/1232.html is an interesting read
<popey> about the Giggs story
<BigRedS> AlanBell: Nah, I think they're just under the impression they're a business, not a public service
<oimon> popey: interesting site
<gord> whoever invented the gtk progressbar that just goes back and forward needs to be shot
<hamitron> gord: "I really have no clue how long it will take"
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> "But I'm still working on it!"
<hamitron> :D
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I love that
<oimon> guys, i've got a laptop in front of me running lucid and ati radeon express 1250  with bad screen flicker - what should i do? lsmod shows radeon module loaded
<MartijnVdS> what kind of screen flicker?
<davmor2> gord: wasn't it you?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: occasionally when moving windows or similar , i see thin horizontal black lines flicker in several places across the screen
<oimon> especially when closing or creating windows - seems like a driver bug. no experience with ati drivers tho
<MartijnVdS> oimon: sounds like a 3D bug.. does it happen in classic mode?
<gord> MartijnVdS, lucid :)
<oimon> looks like bug 318325
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 318325 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "[X1100] flickering after resume from ram " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318325
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> upgrade to natty?
<oimon> still in natty too :( just ned to remember not to suspend th elaptop
<MartijnVdS> get a proper new one ;)
<MartijnVdS> with INTEL graphics, that WORK
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<oimon> it's a work laptop :(
 * MartijnVdS convinced work to buy an intel laptop :)
<oimon> bought before i was here
<oimon> :)
<oimon> otherwise a nice machine
<oimon> except for horrible placement of certain keys on the beyboard
<gord> intel does not mean works
<gord> seriously
<MartijnVdS> gord: when doesn't it?
<MartijnVdS> gord: if it's old (pre-core) intel, sure.. but new intel WorksÂ®
<gord> MartijnVdS, their gl support sucks, this HD 3000 i'm running has graphical glitches all over the place
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> gord: At least it's not nvidia, with no support at all for RANDR
<hamitron> why do i now feel I've been stupid getting an i3 :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: i3 is good.
<DJones> hamitron: I like my i3
<hamitron> I like mine too
<hamitron> runnign widnws 7 atm on it though
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> running windows 7 atm on it though
<davmor2> I like mine too and the battery meter doesn't lie any more either
<hamitron> using it for games for a while, will then use in a SFF PC with linux
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that is the plan anyway
<ali1234> it's very simple
<mrwarmth> Does anyone know if Xubuntu uses GDM?
<davmor2> mrwarmth: I believe it does although it may be heavily modified and not all options may work if the backend apps are missing
<ali1234> if you want fast 2d and low power usage, go intel
<ali1234> if you want to play games, get nvidia
<brobostigon> !info xdm
<ali1234> if you want to do gpu computing get ati
<lubotu3> xdm (source: xdm): X display manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:1.1.10-3ubuntu1 (natty), package size 150 kB, installed size 880 kB
<mrwarmth> thanks, davmor2
<ali1234> xubuntu does use gdm
<davmor2> brobostigon: xdm isn't xfce it's X fullstop
<ali1234> in fact xfce is little more than an alternative shell and apps for gnome
<ali1234> (and not a particularly good one of that)
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, i know, i wasjust curious.
<ali1234> xdm is a old old display manager from prehistory
<davmor2> brobostigon: ah okay
<hamitron> ali1234: for the functionality, I certainly found it rather heavy on resources
<ali1234> xfce is basically in the state that gnome was in 5 years ago
<ali1234> people say xfce is really light, but so was gnome before they added all the features we now take for granted
<ali1234> like the ability to configure monitors
<mrwarmth> ali1234, thank you. I tend to use dwm instead of gnome and figured xubuntu might be a better starting point rather than full ubuntu/gnome. xfce is nice too though :)
<ali1234> so i'm now addicted to mechanical turk
<ali1234> i've earned about $20 in the last three days
<oimon> ali1234: oh dear, whose fault was that?
<ali1234> i dunno whoever was talking about it the other day
 * oimon hides
<oimon> what are you doing? transcriptions?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> and "draw a box around the thing"
<awilkins> $20 for how much work though
<oimon> 3 days :P
<ali1234> about 2 hours a day
<awilkins> And is it less than $20 worth of effort to extract it from Amazon
<ali1234> dunno, it looks like they just give it to you as amazon gift cards
<ali1234> if you are outside USA that is
<oimon> there must be easier ways to get Â£Â£
<oimon> market research, mystery shopping
<ali1234> finding 2 hours of work/day on a regular basis is surprisingly difficult
<popey> some of them are just ad-clicking
<ali1234> i don't do the spammy ones
 * mrwarmth googles mechanical turk
<oimon> ali1234: you could babysit people's farmville plots for them. :)
<ali1234> i pick them based on how interesting they are
<ali1234> like yesterday there was one "upload images from all the different cameras you have"
<ali1234> someone wants to analyse jpeg compression to discover what camera took a photo, if the exif is stripped
<ali1234> $0.25 per image
<oimon> inssider fails on my lucid machine :(
<ali1234> yeah, i'll happily 'play' farmville for you for $2/hour
<ali1234> (if i have nothing better to do lol)
<oimon> can you trade stuff in minecraft?
<ali1234> if you want to
<ali1234> just drop it on the ground
<ali1234> there's no trading system except in mods
<wintellect> oimon: tried the ctrl-alt-sysrq-k thing, and it brought back KDM. thanks for the tip
<DJones> ali1234: $2/hour for playing facebook, I should get my wife doing that, she'd make a fortune doing what she does anyway
<oimon> wintellect: sweet :)
<DJones> s/facebook/farmville
<screen-x> sadly noone wants to pay me to play osmos
<oimon> am i misremembering or didn't ubuntu installer used to offer a side-by-side install if you already had XP and ubuntu already on your machine?
<BigRedS> So install a third OS, leaving the other ubuntu and the windows?
<BigRedS> It definitely did (still does?) do that when there's another not-ubuntu
<BigRedS> but I don't think I've ever needed to notice what it does when there's already a ubuntu there
<oimon> natty installer offers now to trash everything, upgrade the LTS, or "other"..and the other is somewhat manual.
<oimon> i remember it was a lot nicer and allowed a gparted type partition resizer etc
<awilkins> I like the "other"
<Azelphur> popey: 2.7ghash :)
<Azelphur> weeeeee.
 * hamitron sniffles at his 0.8ghash
<hamitron> :\
<Azelphur> hehe
<awilkins> I like "other" because my standard partition preference is to have /home on a partition that isn't root.
<popey> Azelphur: why do you keep telling me this?
<BigRedS> I got bored of multi-partitioned desktops/laptops a while ago
<Azelphur> popey: thought you was interested, sorry
<popey> heh
<awilkins> Blech, Dr Pepper is not nearly as nice when flat
<awilkins> Doesn't work as a jingle
<oimon> do they still advertise fizzy drinks on tv?
<awilkins> They do.
<hamitron> popey: buys comparing their "toys" ;)
<hamitron> boys*
<awilkins> The Ubuntu installer WAS smart enough this time around to work out that when I gave it an old /home with existing folders, that it didn't need to make a new one for my user
<Twinkletoes> what is the most up-to-date or best version of ddrescue... "ddrescue", "dd_rescue" or "gddrescue"?
<screen-x> gddrescue \o/ thats the package name, I think the binary might not have the g.
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: yah, gddrescue contains /sbin/ddrescue
<screen-x> and is rather awesome
 * screen-x is disappointed by https://splendidbacon.com
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: Yeah - it seems dd_rescue is rather old, too
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: It's confusing because ddrescue is 1.14-1 and gddrescue is 1.11-1
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: did you hear about kernel 2.6.40 possibly being 2.8.0, due to "the voices in my head"?
<bigcalm> o.O
 * Twinkletoes is all confuzzled
<screen-x> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.mm/63589
<screen-x> just a statement on the arbitrary-ness of version numbers
<gord> as long as the version numbers are going up, its all good
<AlanBell> do you think popey is truly inspirational?
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: Point taken, but still confusing :)
<popey> o_O
<AlanBell> do you think popey always strives to do his best?
<AlanBell> do you think it would be funny to make him run a mile carrying a torch?
<AlanBell> http://www.london2012.com/games/olympic-torch-relay/carrying-the-olympic-flame/
<popey> uh oh
<davmor2> last one
<gord> i think he would drop it =\
<davmor2> gord: harsh, you would drop it would you popey
<bigcalm> Aren't we meant to be making David Tennant run with the tourch?
<davmor2> isn't that the entrance into the stadium though?
<AlanBell> well they are looking for 8000 people
<davmor2> AlanBell: so we vote for David Tenant and popey right?
<popey> I vote sladen
<popey> on his brompton
<davmor2> popey: he'd set fire to his hair, now stop trying to squirm out of it
<screen-x> will there be a list of people to vote on? or are they relying on the number of duplicate nominations?
<AlanBell> you have 1500 characters to put on the nomination form
<oimon> we could get nick griffin to do the bit through whitechapel...sure that would go down well
<oimon> he might not make it through alive
<popey> \o/ home time
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> Podcast tonight âº
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> it is only 300 meters each actually
<davmor2> AlanBell: meh that's not far enough to make popey suffer so no point now ;)
<DJones> I know of one guy that is being nominated by a lot of rugby league supporters
<davmor2> might be fun to have David Attenborough run 300 meters :D
<screen-x> is running a requirement?
<DJones> Maybe this bloke http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343911/Broken-heart-worlds-fattest-man-Paul-Mason-70-stone-cost-taxpayer-1m.html WARNING YOU MAY WANT TO POKE YOUR EYES OUT AFTER SEEING THE PICTURE
<daysaver> list
 * screen-x decides against following DJones' link
<jpds> DJones: Now, they told us we were safe from anything Fukashima like.
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> Ah well 7 minutes past 5pm, done the payroll, sent it to the bank for payment, time to relax
<Laney> penguin cafe orchestra â¥
<daysaver> #
<daysaver> #
<screen-x> daysaver: you ok there? :)
<daysaver> don't know how to use irc
<screen-x> daysaver: welcome! I'm no expert... but what are you trying to do?
<daysaver> I want to chat with programmers
<MooDoo> later all :D
<screen-x> night MooDoo
<daysaver> how do you use join?
<MooDoo> daysaver: /join #<channel name>
<MooDoo> oh i'm using irssi :)
<daysaver> how do you find channel names?
<marxjohnson> daysaver: /list I think
<daysaver> thanks
<screen-x> daysaver: are you looking for a particular languague or project?
<daysaver> c++
<screen-x> daysaver: ##c++ seems to be the channel for that
<an0key> even a thank you ;)
<etneg> hi
<etneg> im in a ubuntu  VM and host machine is win7
<etneg> it keeps dropping my download connections half way through
<etneg> on the same network it works just fine on xp though
<etneg> any hints what could be going wrong
<etneg> using a microlink connection that doesn't use the wan port of the router instead uses the LAN port
<BigRedS> what're you using for the virtualization?
<BigRedS> when teh download fails in ubuntu, does all networking stop working?
<etneg> well even without ubuntu in VM, the connection keeps dropping my downloads
<etneg> im downloading from win7
<etneg> im getting a little confused, first the xp box is off,second ive tried without the vm same affect, third its a slower connection here
<etneg> but im getting about up to 200kbs
<etneg> it's shared
<dogmatic69> so your windows host box drops connect?
<etneg> the win7 box
<etneg> not the xp one
<screen-x> etneg: you have a win7 host with an xp vm and an ubuntu vm?
<etneg> a win7 box with a ubuntu vm
<dogmatic69> and win7 drops connections?
<etneg> yep
<dogmatic69> bah
<etneg> well im downloading anything of say over 100mbs then all off a sudden the status bar will speed to the end and cut the download short
<etneg> now if i try to downloading via ubuntu, well im still trying to now on the same file, but adobe is being a pain
<etneg> download*
<screen-x> etneg: did the ubuntu iso download ok?
<etneg> this isnt about the iso
<kaushal> hi
<screen-x> hi kaushal
<kaushal> how do i erase the hard disk running older ubuntu versions ?
<screen-x> etneg: you mentioned that you had trouble downloading large files, so I thought an ISO would be a good test
<etneg> it's downloading now, so may take a while to faulter
<etneg> but it does the same on you tube bigger than 100mbs
<etneg> screen-x: any file larger than 100mbs it cuts short off half way through
<screen-x> etneg: going through a proxy?
<etneg> screen-x: no
<screen-x> etneg: check with something like http://whatismyipaddress.com/proxy-check
<etneg> screen-x: im not using a proxy on the win7 box
<screen-x> etneg: so whats sniping your downloads?
<etneg> if i knew i wouldnt be here!:P
<screen-x> :)
<etneg> if i have a limited mac table in the router could this happen?
<etneg> still doesnt explain why it works fine over xp
<screen-x> kaushal: boot from live cd, run something distructive
<kaushal> screen-x: like ?
<screen-x> etneg: you have two computers, one win7 also vm host, one xp, both connected to the same router, win7 box has download prob, winxp box doesnt?
<etneg> right
<screen-x> kaushal: actualy, easiest way is probably to download a dban iso, and boot that.
<kaushal> ok
<screen-x> kaushal: have to be careful with that though, as it will obliterate all data on all disks..
<kaushal> screen-x: but it does take lot of time
<kaushal> can it made quicker ?
<screen-x> kaushal: dban has a few settings depending on how paranoid you are..
<davmor2> kaushal: days if you do the wrong settings,  hours if you get the right ones
<kaushal> ok
<davmor2> kaushal: depends on the size of the disk of course :)
<screen-x> kaushal: if you aren't worried about making the data irecoverable, you can just delete the partition table with cfdisk -z
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> screen-x: so no data can be recovered using cfdisk -z ?
<screen-x> kaushal: no... if you use that, all the data could be recovered.
<kaushal> then it is bad
<kaushal> I dont want anyone to recover my data
<screen-x> kaushal: dban is the way to go if you want to make sure the data is totally gone
<kaushal> ok
<screen-x> etneg: I don't know enough about windows to know why that would be happening. Could try booting the win7 box with an ubuntu live cd and see if the problem persists. That isolates windows, and suggests its a hardware or router issue.
<etneg> well it cant be a router issue since it works on xp
<kaushal> can i use quick erase method using dban ?
<etneg> and also the win7 box worked fine before i moved
<etneg> i moved to a new place and now its not working right
<etneg> if it downloads right via the ubuntu vm o win7 then clearly it's a win7 issue but i cant tell yet since im still downloading the file
<screen-x> kaushal: you can choose different numbers of passes over the disk. Total time depends on how big the disk is * number of passes. The more passes you do, the less chance of data being recoverable.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so i will use dban
<kaushal> and let you know
<kaushal> Thanks screen-x
<etneg> ok the download stopped prematurely
<etneg> at 141 of 451
<screen-x> etneg: which browser are you using for downloads? have you tried ff/chrome?
<etneg> yeah
<etneg> tried all
<etneg> you think chrome is obstructing something?
<etneg> or firefox
<screen-x> etneg: things I would try next: 1) boot from an ubuntu live cd and retry the download 2) log packets with wireshark, to determine which end closes the connection.
<etneg> wel i looked at the event logs on win7 and it reads
<etneg> event id 1001 dhcp client
<screen-x> etneg: was that event at the time the download failed?
<etneg> screen-x: ye
<screen-x> etneg: maybe give your win7 pc a static IP, and retry, to ensure it isn't a dhcp renewal issue.
<etneg> if it was about renewal, then it would start a download at all would it?
<screen-x> etneg: unless the dhcp renewal process occured during the download and interupted it. That is unlikely, I'm just guessing.
<etneg> well i see this in the error logs too kernal event tracing id 2
<screen-x> etneg: maybe best to find a windows related channel
<etneg> na theyb usually suck
<screen-x> I haven't used windows for years, so can't be very helpful on windows issues..
<etneg> in all honesty linux channels know more lol
<etneg> it's weird
<screen-x> odd
<AlanBell> etneg: are you behind a transparent proxy?
<etneg> AlanBell: nope
<jacobw> did anyone watch "all watched over by machines of loving grace" last night?
<jacobw> bbc2, 9pm
<advancedbraindam> hi i have a problrm with my cd burner it doesnt work every time i try the error message pop out
<brobostigon> can you provide us with the error message please, and use a pastebin please.
<brobostigon> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<advancedbraindam> http://pastebin.com/LYyXy11T
<advancedbraindam> the save log
<advancedbraindam> thanks guys hope that will help you to figure it out
<AlanBell> "ID CRC OR ECC ERROR" is what the specs say
<AlanBell> http://www.t10.org/lists/asc-num.htm#ASC_10
<AlanBell> "SCSI error on write(8896,16): See MMC specs: Sense Key 3 "Medium error", ASC 10 ASCQ 00"
<advancedbraindam> what does it mean dude?
<AlanBell> advancedbraindam: sounds like a bad disk, but you have tried several I guess
<advancedbraindam> ohh yeah
<advancedbraindam> dvd s and cds
<advancedbraindam> its the same regardless
<AlanBell> it is talking about CRC (cyclic redundancy check) and ECC (error correcting code) errors
<AlanBell> as if the data it reads back doesn't match the data it just wrote
<advancedbraindam> i did reinstall the system few weeks back and i know there was some error during the installation
<advancedbraindam> i have a picture of the error message let me type few lines for you
<AlanBell> not sure I have any advice to offer really, the error message basically just says it didn't work
<advancedbraindam> { 35553,424938} end_request: i/o error, dev sr0, sector 5534848
<advancedbraindam> here is one of the lines after the install
<advancedbraindam> it might be this what cause it
<advancedbraindam> ??
<MartijnVdS> Did you remove the CD-ROM before it asked you to?
<AlanBell> that happened when installing from live cd in that same drive?
<MartijnVdS> If not, this is normal
<AlanBell> it might be a dodgy drive causing both issues
<advancedbraindam> im not sure 100% but i wouldn`t eject the cd before the installation is complete
<advancedbraindam> i was thinking about too that the drive could be the couse
<advancedbraindam> however it work before the reinstall
<advancedbraindam> never have any problems with it
<advancedbraindam> is there a software to check the hardware status etc ???
<KrisWillis> Hey
<KrisWillis> Does anyone know how to launch an application on the desktop, but via SSH?
<KrisWillis> For example, XBMC just crashed on my HTPC, I just killed it via SSH, but can't figure out how to start it again
<gord> KrisWillis, DISPLAY=:0 xbmc
<KrisWillis> gord: Thanks, that was one thing I tried, but if I disconnect my SSH session, it kills xbmc
 * KrisWillis stops being lazy and plugs a mouse into it to fire it up
<BigRedS> nohup?
<DJones> ssh -X ?
<KrisWillis> BigRedS / DJones : I'll have a play with them shortly, thanks - Just about to pop out
 * popey points out http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
<popey> and #ubuntu-uk-podcast
<shauno> no ustream this time?
<MartijnVdS> NO U STREAM
<MartijnVdS> (or: Y U NO STREAM)
<shauno> :)
<shauno> thought it worked pretty well last time.  if they could get it to use the same audio as the podcast feed does, it'd have been perfect
<jacobw> i haven't listed to episode 6 yet :o
<popey> shauno: sadly tony has rubbish bandwidth
<popey> shauno: whereas I have excellent upstream
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Speaking of which
<bigcalm> Must sign and return that contract
<gord> o_O firefox just offered to upgrade to 5.0 beta
<gord> how times change
 * suprengr wonders if http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/05/automotive-black-boxes/ will use Linux ;)
<czajkowski> TREllis: ALOHA
<TREllis> czajkowski: howdy
<TREllis> czajkowski: happy now?
<TREllis> czajkowski: :)
 * TREllis hands czajkowski some peanut butter M&M's
<czajkowski> TREllis: so wrong
<czajkowski> peanubutter on toast
<czajkowski> with a bucket of tea!
<czajkowski> only plain choclate M&Ms
<TREllis> czajkowski: noooooo! they rock, have you tried them?
<czajkowski> TREllis: I'm easily pleased what can I say
<czajkowski> no
<czajkowski> tis wrong
<gord> i tried peanut butter m&ms, i was not impressed
<czajkowski> see and gord is wise about his food choices most of the time
<brobostigon> uupc live is running in chromium, as if it was html5, but has a clear .mp3 extension.
<popey> feel free to join us in #ubuntu-uk-podcast âº
<livingdaylight> who are we listening to on the podcast?
<brobostigon> livingdaylight: jono.
<brobostigon> auth.log scares me sometimes, :(
<shauno> there shouldn't be anything scary in there?
<SamJ190494> is the right kinda place to throw up an idea?
<brobostigon> shauno: it feelslike it, likesomephraseslike, potential breakin attempt, and the like.
<shauno> ah .. random chinese people trying to guess a valid username?
<brobostigon> shauno: that also, i have sw, that auto puts those weird ip's, into hosts.deny.
<shauno> yeah, I do something similar with fail2ban
<shauno> altho it's almost entirely cosmetic.  they can keep guessing usernames, they're not going to guess a valid key :)  it just makes them disappear from the logs when they fail hard enough
<brobostigon> :( eeeekkk
<shauno> maybe badly worded .. they disappear because they're added to iptables, so they never show up on ssh .. not just removed from the logs.  they just never get far enough to appear in logs anymore
<brobostigon> shauno: what i would rather it do, is stick every ipv4&v6 addr that falsely tries to login, into something, that locks that ip entirly out from everything, and "ufw deny" that ip, at the sametime.
<shauno> I prefer to make sure the service itself is secured.  things like denyhosts and fail2ban stop them coming back.  but key-only logins stop them having a chance in the first place
<brobostigon> shauno: inclusive ofhttp and anything else.
<brobostigon> shauno: i have those lockeddownaswell, but i woulslike something to coordinate alittlemore,
<shauno> to be honest, I wish it was easier to simply blackhole entire countries :/
<brobostigon> i would rrather notstricktly do that,
<shauno> well, mine's mostly a personal machine.  I've a small number of known users, none of them outside the EU
<shauno> so if I could block asia completely, it'd be fairly sensible.  for most public machines, that wouldn't be a smart move
<brobostigon> forthatm yes,
<shauno> doesn't solve much, but there's several countries that keep showing up, where the signal to noise ration is an absolute zero  :/
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<shauno> I shouldn't say chinese people.  it's chinese connections.  I've one theory that the high priracy rates there mean a lot more machines running without updates. which'd make it botnet heaven
<brobostigon> shauno: although, i have probebly done as much as i can, and lcokked down iptables asmuch as possible, and things likeapache, i reckon.
<brobostigon> locked*
<shauno> does denyhosts specifically block them from ssh?
<brobostigon> aswell, i think so, yes,
<shauno> if the lines it's adding to hosts.deny read "ALL: address", they may already be blocked from apache
<brobostigon> shauno: sshd: only.
<shauno> looks like that can be set in /etc/denyhosts.conf
<shauno> look for 'BLOCK_SERVICE'.  if that's set to ALL instead of 'sshd', that's what the lines in hosts.deny will have
<shauno> that'd remove them from anything that's built with tcp-wrappers, atleast
<brobostigon> ok, let melook.
<ujjain> What is a good price to compare hardware prices in the UK? (External hard disk)
<shauno> not sure off-hand whether apache uses wrappers tho
<brobostigon> shauno: found it,
<brobostigon> shauno: good question,
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<brobostigon> lol
<shauno> apparently it doesn't.  you have to launch it from inetd to use wrappers, which makes it incredibly slow
<brobostigon> hmmm.
<shauno> I think I'd fall back to "you might wanna look at fail2ban sometime".  it's a bit messier than denyhosts, but it'll work with a lot more services.  and one of the options for actions is iptables-multiport, which simply drops that IP dead
<shauno> you'd want to play with it on a local machine sometime first (automatically adding yourself to iptables sucks), but if you want to drop offenders site-side, it'll do that
<brobostigon> ok, thank you shauno. i will look at that, can both run-side-by-side
<brobostigon> ?
<shauno> I can't see why not, but I haven't tried
<brobostigon> ok, i will find some way of trying.
<Azelphur> what can I use on Ubuntu to give me reminders of upcoming events?
<shauno> google calendar :)
<Azelphur> how would that give me a reminder?
<shauno> it sends me text messages reminding me when my rent's due
<Azelphur> for free?
<shauno> I don't know if evolution is a sane option.  it used to plug into the clock applet via e-d-s, but I've no idea if that's still true for natty
<shauno> yeah for free.  I'm not giving google money.  they have enough already.
<Azelphur> awesome :P
<Azelphur> shauno: wonder if it can do XMPP notifications
<shauno> http://www.google.com/support/calendar/bin/answer.py?&answer=37242  says email, sms, or popups on the webpage :/
<Azelphur> cool
<shauno> that's all I actually use their calendar for.  one sms on payday, another when rent goes out
<shauno> thinking about it, someone has to have done an email to xmpp gateway
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> !info sendxmpp
<lubotu3> sendxmpp (source: sendxmpp): commandline XMPP (jabber) utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.20-1 (natty), package size 14 kB, installed size 88 kB
<shauno> that + procmail.  sorted :)
<Azelphur> shauno: could just use cron to send direct to xmpp on that basis xD
<shauno> whoops
<shauno> xmpp plugin for irssi looked interesting, but exploded on connect :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-25
<shauno> Azelphur: fun one for you - http://techland.time.com/2011/05/23/report-police-confuse-bitcoin-miners-power-use-for-weed-grow-op/
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed, been linked to that a few times now, ali1234 totally called that happening to me about a week ago too
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> might not be a bad thing; you might be able to get them to pay for a new door :)
<Azelphur> indeed, mines still busted :(
<Azelphur> shauno: http://www.photoblip.com/images/790/4ac4dbc44f1e23e6f426b0daf2983af4.jpg
<Azelphur> I clearly need to do this
<ging> yes and add at the bottom a foot note about the power consumption being created by huge amounts of valuable computer equipment
<shauno> are they all up and running now?
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, I took the 6990 down because it runs too hot
<Azelphur> shauno: but I have 8 5870s running, 3.1ghash :)
<Azelphur> rather, 3.2*
<Azelphur> ging, rofl true :D
<Azelphur> shauno: I brought the entire floor up about 10c, when you go downstairs it's like an arctic blast xD
<shauno> heh, oh dear
<shauno> I'll be interested to know what the reaction when your next electricity bill is ;)  2-3kW is fairly significant for a 24x7 load
<ging> Azelphur: in a single machine?
<Azelphur> shauno: I actually have it running at 1.74kw
<Azelphur> Ging no lol
<ging> 4 machines?
<Azelphur> ging 8
<Azelphur> shauno: should only be Â£70
<Azelphur> perks of being right next to the worlds largest wind farm \o/
<ging> i thought that was in california
<Azelphur> ging: I went a bit crazy, January: build my first PC, April: Water cool said PC. May: Build a supercomputer in the spare bedroom.
<Azelphur> because weeeeee.
<ging> or did they knock most of that down because it basicly didnt work?
<Azelphur> ging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanet_Wind_Farm
<Azelphur> maybe there are bigger on shore ones *shrug*
<alexMocanu> #go-nuts
<Azelphur> #but-i-dont-like-nuts
<ging> i remember years ago seeing stuff about a massive wind farm in calafornia that basicly did nothing because there for goverment tax incentives for these companies to build them but it didnt matter how much energy they produced, so companies just slapped a load up in some valley
<Azelphur> ging rofl, fail
<Azelphur> shauno: I wonder how much it'd cost to get a 2kw renewable energy installation going
<Azelphur> probably wind since I'm clearly in the right place for it
<ging> Azelphur: do you have a basement?
<Azelphur> yea, but it's real bad down there
<Azelphur> it's more like a dungeon/cave than a basement xD
<ging> do you have objections to running a small liquid thorium nuclear reactor in an urban area?
<Azelphur> sounds fun :D
<ging> do it
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I might propose the idea of putting my 6990 unit in the back kitchen
<Azelphur> it doesn't matter if it whirs a little back there, and that room is so cold it could make it warmer
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> I'm not sure running a 24x7 load is the best use-case for home renewables
<shauno> most methods don't give you a good output all the time, so you typically use the current in to charge storage, then use storage as needed
<Azelphur> yea, if I was to do it I'd probably pump the power into an UPS with a nice big battery
<Azelphur> to try and buffer the bumps out
<ging> in winter i'm guessing for a lot of people real energy consumption of thier pcs is far less than they think, as all the energy they consume they chuck out into the room which means the heaters are not workign so hard
<shauno> even a ups would be pretty sketchy
<Azelphur> shauno: maybe, but here you can pretty much get wind power 24/7
<Azelphur> there's always wind here :D
<shauno> a ups would prett much waste the overcurrent when you're generating more than normal; and simply switch to battery when you're getting less than it wants
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> if you're generating, say, 75% of what you need .. a ups won't provide the other 25%.  it'll just switch straight to the inverter, disregard the input current, and drain the battery
<Azelphur> ah, that's no good :(
<Azelphur> It'd nice to be trying to power it off wind as much as possible, and falling back to battery and mains when needed :P
<ging> i think with micro renewables you dont want to be storing your own energy, you want to be selling it back to the grid when ever you can, you get a feed in tarif which pays out 3-4x as much for the energy you produce as it costs you to buy
<Azelphur> that's a simple idea :)
<shauno> flywheel or water pump systems would do better .. you'd really want something that's designed for the job
<Azelphur> shauno: ging's idea seems better, just buy a wind turbine and pump everything back into the grid
<Azelphur> and offset my energy bill lol
<shauno> :)
<Azelphur> that'd be easy/seamless \o/
<Azelphur> something fun to do one day :)
<shauno> but wouldn't survive a zombie outbreak ;)
<Azelphur> true lol
<ging> i think the way they work is that you have to be producing a surplus to get the feed in rate, but i think it counts in real time, so if over night your getting 5kw and only using 3 but in the day your using 7 you still get paid for the 2kw surplus you used over night
<shauno> no idea how that works :/  most places I come across this, it's hermits trying to live entirely 'off the grid'
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> shauno: http://btcmine.com/toplist/ rank 6 \o/
<ging> feed in tarrifs are a big thing now, because they are so pay out so much more per unit than they charge because it's goverment subsidised
<ging> some people are litterally covering thier roofs in solar panels
<shauno> that's why I don't come across them; I'm not in the UK, so not offered the same subsidies
<ging> ah
<Azelphur> gotta love government doing something right :D
<ging> i dont think it's unique to UK, but i think UK has a very good rate for it making it worth doing
<shauno> the chances of the irish government giving me anything are rather slim.  they're having more fun trying to figure out how to get me to pay for a housing bubble that burst before I moved here
<ging> ah yeah ireland's goverment doesnt really have anything to be giving away right now
<ging> atleast they've got plenty of houses they could attach solar panels to
<shauno> yeah.  but no-one in them
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> and don't you dare suggest the government buys the panels.  they've added enough <expletive> onto my pay stub as it is
<shauno> they got bored of adding taxes, and invented levies and charges to go with them :/
<shauno> (call it a tax, and it has to obey tax brackets.  call it a levy, and it doesn't)
<ging> rumour has it that barrack obama didnt get his change when he paid for his pint in an irish pub
<shauno> ;)
<shauno> the queen was clever and got hers on the brewery tour, so it was on the house :p
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110525_034107.jpg magical photos :p
<ging> i'm not too sure she actaully wanted it that much
<shauno> nah she didn't touch it
<shauno> himself looked a little more interested tho
<shauno> Azelphur: I was wondering what you were gonna do with them physically.  that isn't what I pictured tho :p
<Azelphur> ghetto style \o/
<Azelphur> shauno: I might build a little rack for them one day.
<ging> ah yeah i remember now she was going to try it then thought better of it or something
<shauno> or just find some standoffs and make a rack *out of* them
<Azelphur> shauno: haha, but then the PSU's would have nowhere to go
<ging> seriously Azelphur that is how they are currently setup?
<shauno> reminds me of this chap - http://helmer.sfe.se/
<Azelphur> ging yep
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, I was thinking I should do something like that :P
<Azelphur> ging notice they all have no hdds too :D
<Azelphur> apart from the one in the top left
<shauno> his designs for a new one are pretty - http://helmer2.sfe.se/
<ging> Azelphur: what is much more aprent is they have no cases
<shauno> but the 'ikea rack' is famous now :)
<shauno> you don't really want/need cases
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> shauno: someone linked this in #bitcoin-mining the other day, really impressive. http://image.bayimg.com/eabdfaadd.jpg
<Azelphur> I love what he did with the graphics card to solve the exhaust problem :p
<shauno> google's servers are a good example - http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html
<shauno> cases are pretty, but tend to be one of the more expensive components in a cluster like that  (in azulphur's case, possibly the second most expensive behind the video cards)
<Azelphur> pretty much yea, the CPU is Â£23 and the mobo is Â£33, RAM Â£17
<Azelphur> or something like that anyway, I ended up getting a bulk deal of Â£250/unit
<shauno> I do think enclosing them is better for cooling tho, which seems to go against common wisdom
<Azelphur> 5870s have really nice cooling tbh, it's amazingly quiet for what it is and all of the cards are between 67 and 73c right now
<Azelphur> and they are overclocked from 850 to 900mhz, but the gpu memory is underclocked through the floor :P
<Azelphur> (weirdly, lower gpu memory clock = better hashrate performance...physics how do they work)
<shauno> surprised I don't seem to see many using risers to move the video card
<Azelphur> yea, that photo I linked you to the guy is getting about 2.5mhash/watt
<Azelphur> where as I'm currently only doing 1.8
<Azelphur> http://www.amfeltec.com/products/x1pcie-splitter3.php looks like a very interesting way of beating him though :p
<Azelphur> wonder if I could slam one of those in and then like magic I'm running 3 cards on a machine that's ridiculously low power xD
<shauno> I wonder if you'd gain much efficiency by using one big power supply rather than 8 separate ones
<ging> can you do that? just split a pci-e slot like that?
<shauno> I think you just lose speed
<shauno> eg, splitting a 16x slot into 3 slots doesn't render 3 16x slots
<Azelphur> but obviously in this use case it's fine because your not using a whole lot of bandwith
<Azelphur> you can bitcoin mine on an x1 slot no problem
<ging> so you only need the bandwith when you are putting a lot in and out of the memory?
<Azelphur> Ging I guess so yea, the bottleneck is the processing power :)
<ging> how much memory do these things need? could you get away with cards that had powerful gpus without much ram atall?
<Azelphur> you do need some memory, the general rule I've read is memory clock needs to be at least a third of gpu clock
<Azelphur> so mine are at 900/300 atm
<Azelphur> anyway, sleep time for me, nn all
<ging> yeah but i mean how much memory is there, i'm thinking maybe if companies sold graphics cards with a low amount of ram but a fairly powerful gpu they'd be quite cheap for this sort of thing
<Azelphur> ging: they are gonna be rolling out ASIC processors soon for this
<ging> i clearly need a wired mouse, this one uses 2 aaa batteries a month
<shauno> was reading about some of the fpga mining efforts.  not convinced anyone stands a chance of recouping their costs on that yet
<shauno> maybe later on, when coins are taking long enough to generate that performance per watt becomes a big deal
<shauno> it's interesting to read about, but not something I'm liable to play with.  it's an arms race, and that gets expensive.  just ask russia.
<shauno> generation is limited network-wide to one block about every 10 minutes.  the more people join in with big rigs, the smaller the piece of the pie you get
<shauno> the only way to "win" is to be prepared to buy more hardware than the next guy :/
<shauno> (and that's ignoring the economic conditions of "is this currency going to be worth anything when the hype dies down")
<shauno> I personally think the real winner is going to be amd :)
<ging> i dont like amd
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> hey BiRNiT
<popey> http://slashdot.org/story/11/05/24/2010222/Microsoft-Kills-Skype-For-Asterisk
<MartijnVdS> popey: wow. unexpected.
<diplo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<hoover> morning!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - I remember the talk about Hotol all those years ago... Now looks like it might just happen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13506289
<MartijnVdS> Nice punny name.. "Skylon"
<ikonia> any oracle guru's around ?
<coyote_x> \part
<MartijnVdS> !ask | ikonia
<lubotu3> ikonia: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<screen-x> morning :)
<MartijnVdS> \o screen-x0r
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: is that my 1337 alter ego?
<MartijnVdS> I think so, yes
 * MartijnVdS runs the test suite.. for the 50th time today already
 * screen-x resorts to starwars for css specifity rules http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/images/specificitywars-05v2.jpg
<czajkowski> Aloha
<screen-x> morning czajkowski
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> http://now.eloqua.com/es.asp?s=491&e=162556 Microsoft start shutting down skype
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski hugs
<screen-x> AlanBell:  :(
<MooDoo> AlanBell: and so it begins
<mrwarmth> Skype + Microsoft = http://i6.aijaa.com/b/00097/8091042.png
<MooDoo> awesome
<dwatkins> haha, my brother started playing Minecraft yesterday with his son, I'm not sure who's more addicted...
<MooDoo> dwatkins: uh ho!
<MooDoo> :)
<oimon> twitter web page is broken - type something in the search bar hit return, then delete the contents of the search bar, hit return, and it searches for the word "search" ?
<MartijnVdS> cool
<oimon> i couldn't find a way to show the regular home page for ages...
<BigRedS> well, that is what's in the search box when you hit the search button. that's what the search button is supposed to do - search for the contents of the search box
<oimon> BigRedS: what if you delete all the words from the search box?
<BigRedS> then it repopulates it with 'search' as soon as teh text box loses focus
<oimon> also, clicking on the twitter banner would just return me to searches for #superinjunction :-$
<oimon> don't know who typed that in lol
<oimon> i don't think they are really suppotring 'old/useful twitter' any more
<dwatkins> https://twitter.com/#!/search/%20%23superinjunction oimon - replace with the text of your choice, seems to work for me
<BigRedS> for a while, going to 'old twitter' got a 403 error
<BigRedS> during which time, I got quite used to the new one
<oimon> unfortunately i wanted no search...even clicking Home took me to the prefilled search
<oimon> anyway, sorted it now
<oimon> my fault for not using a client
<BigRedS> it seems to do everything right, though it's still impossible to follow other people's conversations
<oimon> new twitter is about as useful to me as new lifehacker
<BigRedS> I suspect that might be more because its' different than through any lack of functionality, though
<oimon> :D
<oimon> if i'm like this now, i'm gonna be terrible when i'm 70
<BigRedS> haha, I'm not claiming innocence on my part :)
<BigRedS> but since getting used to new twitter through the odl one being broken, the old one feels broken
<oimon> i'm more of a facebook man , but twitter has its uses
<popey> ikonia: I know a bit of oracle, wassup?
<popey> (morning btw)
<oimon> i have a word doc that won't display properly in OOo, google docs, or word viewer 2003..any other ideas?
<BigRedS> is this msooxml, or a back-in-the-day doc?
<oimon> old skool doc
<BigRedS> either way, if MS's viewer wont show it, I guess it's broken
<oimon> gonna try virewer 2010
<oimon> looks like some hideous document that's been rewritten 100s of times since 1990s
<oimon> word viewer is running under wine btw
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> ew. so it could just be wine breaking it
 * popey wonders how many more surveys will be created
 * BigRedS offers to survey the survey writers
<popey> hah, yeah, maybe we should make a survey "It looks like you're making a survey, we have a survey which may help!"
<oimon> what surveys?
<BigRedS> there's just been one to the list
<BigRedS> but there does, generally, seem to be one floating around somewhere
<oimon> oh yeah
<oimon> one of them the other day was bizarre
<davmor2> morning all
<hoover> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<oimon> anyone recommend a good vendor for a high end graphics card? ( the nvidia gtx 590 )
<bigcalm> Is it DNA's birthday/deathday?
<bigcalm> Humm, nope
<bigcalm> Wonder why it's being reported as Towel Day
<dwatkins> Perhaps towel day is different.
<bigcalm> "The annual Towel Day (25 May) was first celebrated in 2001, two weeks after Adams's death."
<bigcalm> Thank you WikiPedia :)
<dwatkins> eek, towelday dot org is trying to do something wierd with feedjit dot com
<dwatkins> aha
<dwatkins> Today is also geek pride day.
<hoover> thanks biggie, good to know
<hoover> I'll have a few pints later in order to get ready for the pickup
<hoover> ;-)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Don't forget the peanuts
<bigcalm> I'm editing crontab on a client's server:  DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall.
<bigcalm> What/where is the master?
<BigRedS> use crontab -e
<BigRedS> or crontab -e -u <user>
<bigcalm> That's what I'm doing
 * bigcalm shrugs and edits anyway
<screen-x> bigcalm: are they using some sort of configuration management system?
<screen-x> puppet or something like that?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I really can't tell, but I don't think so
<bigcalm> It's a very old server with FirstServ
<bigcalm> Which we are moving away from and to RackSpace oh so very soon
 * screen-x has an interview with rackspace on friday
<bigcalm> Job or renting servers?
<screen-x> Job
<bigcalm> Good luck :)
<screen-x> thanks :)
<oimon> bigcalm: it may be they use version control on those files, so it will get overwritten
<bigcalm> oimon: we'll see tomorrow then :)
<oimon> or in 3 months whenthe master changes
<bigcalm> We'll have moved hosts long before then
<screen-x> bigcalm: set a daily cron job, that creates an 'at' task for tomorrow which sha1s the crontab to see if its been changed ;-)
<bigcalm> screen-x: I'm not being paid enough to care that much :P
<oimon> where's the rackspace job located?
<screen-x> oimon: hear heathrow
<screen-x> s/hear/near/
<oimon> you can probably hear it too from there
<screen-x> heh
<oimon> wow they have a lot of vacancies
<screen-x> yah
<screen-x> expanding rapidly
<oimon> they don't seem to publish their salaries for the roles though
<oimon> if i lived near there i would be seriously considering applying for one of those right now
<popey> oimon: canonical are hiring, many are work from home roles
<czajkowski> oimon: from what I've seen only recruitment websites advertise salaries
<czajkowski> which is to be fair really annoying if you are applying directly to a company
<bigcalm> Humf, gnu.org seems to be offline again
<bigcalm> They need to stop going down so offten
<BigRedS> are they running on hurd?
<oimon> or maybe turd
<bios__> Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÑÑ
<bios__> Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÑÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾Ð³ÑÐ¸ Ð· ÐÑÐ±ÑÐ½ÑÐ¾Ñ?
<AlanBell> !ru
<lubotu3> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ  / Pozhalujsta posetite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke
<bios__> english?
<AlanBell> yeah
<bios__> hm =)
<AlanBell> and Kubuntu is in #kubuntu
<AlanBell> you were thinking ukranian?
<bios__> yes
<bios__> russ
<bios__> little English
<oimon> Ð½e Ð¿Ð¾Ð½Ð¸Ð¼aÑ
<bios__> Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ°ÑÑ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼?
<bios__> Ð½Ð° ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ Ð²Ð°Ð¼ Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ°ÑÑ?
<oimon> Ð¿Ð¾  Ð°Ð½Ð³Ð»Ð¸Ð¹ÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ, Ð¿Ð¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ°
<bios__> okey
<oimon> :D
<bios__> =)
<bios__> problems from the image on your desktop Where to download the screenshot to show what's the problem?
<devnatu> Hi can any one help in regards to adding banner in Drupal 7
<devnatu> i have long banner with company name and logo
<AlanBell> devnatu: probably best asking in #drupal
<devnatu> ok i will do that
<devnatu> thanks
<bios__> )
<oimon> bios__: try imgur.com to display screenshot
<bios__> cool, i like english
<AlanBell> devnatu: #drupal-uk even
<oimon> AlanBell: you speak russian? or google did it for you
<AlanBell> google (and just recognising cyrillic)
<oimon> i studied it at school :D
<oimon> but my skills are weak nowadays
<screen-x> "How do I attach an email to an email?"  Outlook has much to answer for.
<BigRedS> screen-x: that is, sometimes, useful
<bios__> http://i.imgur.com/NmMBm.png
<bios__> image bags
<bios__> help my
<bios__> ok&
<bios__> ?
<oimon> bios__: processor/ graphics card?
<bios__> ok
<oimon> which hardware do you have
<bios__> please wait
<bios__> I go for lunch, then I for 1 hour
<bios__> excuse me please
<oimon> also there is a #ubuntu-ru room for russian speakers, did you try in there?
<davmor2> oimon: you can guess from the motherboard name surely ;)
<bios__> ÑÑÐµ
<bios__> not
<bios__> Mesa DRI Intel(R) 945G GEM 20100330 DEVELOPMENT
<bios__> video card
<bios__> not drivers install
<davmor2> bios__: Asus box then?  well asus mb at least
<davmor2> oimon: It an all intel MB.  Intel core2duo as the top rated processor and intel GMA950 on an intel 945GZ northbridge  for bios__'s mb if that helps
<jpds> oimon: He's already there.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] LoCo Team re approvals are underway - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/25/loco-team-re-approvals-are-underway/
 * popey pokes ikonia with oracle
<davmor2> czajkowski: prods just cause
 * czajkowski prods popey and davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: what did popey do?
<popey> yeah, bully!
<czajkowski> davmor2: I was making sure he wasn't feeling left out
<gord> i heard that popey is going to be carrying the torch for the olympic games y'know
<bigcalm> Heh
<gord> oh awesome, twitter decided to sign me up, without asking me, to get emails when people reply to me. thats just fantastic
<davmor2> gord: we discovered it was only for 300 meters at which point we realised he wouldn't suffer enough
<davmor2> gord: yes I'm get that too
<davmor2> fsckin twitter
<oimon> gord: i knew i was looking at the twitter web page for a reason...i haven't had those settings applied to my profile yet
 * BigRedS revels in his unpopularity :)
<davmor2> oimon: it's under profile notifications
<oimon> davmor2: i still have the old ones
<davmor2> oimon: jammy get
<davmor2> http://blog.alpha.gov.uk/blog/a-brief-overview-of-technology-behind-alpha-gov-uk nice use of Ubuntu in the government :D To add confirmation that it is Ubuntu http://blog.alpha.gov.uk/colophon
<oimon> davmor2: yeah, i wish my employer would take note
<czajkowski> davmor2: no mention of it though
<davmor2> czajkowski: look at the second link
<BigRedS> ew. ruby
<davmor2> czajkowski: he is asked in the comments and answers there with the top link
<davmor2> s/top/second
<czajkowski> ah
<davmor2> BigRedS: mostly django by the look of things though
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> weirdly sensible for a gov project
<AlanBell> did you see the humans.txt?
<AlanBell> http://alpha.gov.uk/humans.txt
<jpds>  /fail is better.
<AlanBell> it is!
<dwatkins> is anyone here familiar with a boot screen showing an angry fish in Ubuntu 10.4? Doesn't sound like the standard boot splash, but I'm wondering if it's a fairly common thing.
<BigRedS> an angry fish?
<BigRedS> awesome
<popey> screenshot / photo ?
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, just asked for one
<popey> http://notebookitalia.it/nuovi-asus-eee-pc-al-computex-11622
<popey> oooo
<gord> too white for me
<bigcalm> Using the translate option in google chrome has worked wonders. That was very easy to read
<gord> are they suggesting that it works in zero g though? ;)
 * DJones offers gord a tin of black hammerite to repaint the case
<davmor2> gord: now I'd like to see popey put that one to the test :D
<oimon> translation: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/asus-preparing-an-ultraslim-eee-pc-with-a-twist-for-computex/
<oimon> Chromium memory use: 1,453,380k
<popey> "In relation to this and in the persuit of the right choices for our fans, here's a question to all our mobile gurus: what do you prefer to use:, pad, notebook or netbook? Also, given that we were first to try Linux with the Eee PC 701 back in 2007 - we'd like to know again: is Windows still a firm requirement for your everday needs?"
<popey> thats ASUS asking on facebook
<popey> http://www.facebook.com/ASUS?sk=app_183144391734297
<Ng> pad \o/
<Ng> netbooks only if they have nearly-fullsize keys - *hate* the dell mini9 keyboard
<czajkowski> Ng: it does take getting some used to
<Ng> I reckon I can type faster on a touchscreen keyboard than on that thing
<andylockran> z/win 6
<gord> i like netbooks much more than pads, would like a netbook with a touch screen though, maybe a reversible screen
<gord> just unfold the netbook part when you actually want to do proper typing
<davmor2> dell duo then gord ;)
<BigRedS> I used to have a snazzy snap-out keyboard for my XDA
<BigRedS> it was only about 4" wide closed, expanded to about 10". I want a netbook that does that
<gord> davmor2, something thats not atom based ;)
<davmor2> gord: I'm looking forward to a sensibly sized netbook/laptop that is arm based and the A15 chipset might be the thing that brings that about :)
<gord> my arm netbook is nice, but really not for the feint of heart
<dwatkins> gord: slow?
<dwatkins> I'm tempted by the Eeepad
<MartijnVdS> Squeeeepad?
<gord> dwatkins, nvidia tergra 2, so its all closed source and stuff, if your getting a more open driver arm machine you should be fine
<gord> arm certainly isn't slow
<dwatkins> gord: I'm going to be running Ubuntu on an iBook shortly :D
<BigRedS> when dspam logs "dropping message", what does it mean?
<BigRedS> I'm guessing it's either passed on with no spam filtering, or disappears into the ether
<davmor2> gord: only the install then :D
 * hamitron sighs
<hamitron> spanked by automation troubles again
<hamitron> ;\
<hamitron> !nvidia
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<dogmatic69> anyone know how i can access rhythmbox from external?
<dogmatic69> i forwarded external port 7000 -> <pc_ip>:7001
<dogmatic69> going to 127.0.0.1:7001 on the pc works, but using the external ip:7000 just has a loading thing in the status bar
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: can you access from another machine within the lan?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: i think so, seems the router is not allowing external connections
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: try forwarding something else and see if it works
<bigcalm> I had a router that would reboot itself if you tried to forward some ports
<dogmatic69> :D
<screen-x> dogmatic69: do netstat -nlt and see if rb is listening on 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0
<dogmatic69> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:7001          0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
<screen-x> dogmatic69: you need to get it to listen on 0.0.0.0 (or your nic address) before you can access it from another machine.
<dogmatic69> screen-x: how is this?
<dogmatic69> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:7001            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
<screen-x> dogmatic69: that looks better
<dogmatic69> k, now can access it within the wifi
<screen-x> One of my users has been sent a word doc with embedded PDFs. I can't seem to open the embedded PDFs with oowriter (double clicking results in "General Error" even with OOo pdf import plugin installed). If I save the doc as odt, and extract its contents, there are a few files named object\ 1-3 that are about the right size, however they are no openable as PDFs, "file" says they are corrupt CDF V2 Documents. Any suggestions?
<dogmatic69> google word thingy
<dogmatic69> it might be able to open / extract stuff
<oimon> new bbc news app: https://market.android.com/details?id=bbc.mobile.news.uk
<screen-x> dogmatic69: tried importing into google docs, but the file was too large :(
<dogmatic69> aw
<screen-x> dogmatic69: thanks for the suggestion though :)
<dogmatic69> windows vm + office
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://www.jules.fm/Logbook/files/extract_ole_from_word.html
<dogmatic69> how big is this file?
<devnatu> can some one please tell me how do i extract zip file in to certain location in ubuntu via command line
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: thanks, I presume thats perl..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: it is, and it's horribly formatted
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: and the italic bits are comments, prefix with #
<devnatu> can some one please tell me how do i extract zip file in to certain location in Ubuntu via command line
<screen-x> devnatu: sudo apt-get install unzip; man unzip
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://search.cpan.org/~jmcnamara/OLE-Storage_Lite-0.19/lib/OLE/Storage_Lite.pm might be better/easier to use
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: it has some test/example files in the tar.gz
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: Thanks, I'll have a go
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: or http://search.cpan.org/~mschwartz/OLE-Storage-0.386/Storage.pm
<hamitron> is anyone here good with writing xorg.conf files from scratch? or know a good way to make one?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you don't need one anymore
<hamitron> my laptop won't work without
<hamitron> and none of the tools I used to use seem to exist
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: you sometimes do
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: check the Ubuntu wiki
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: only if you buy Nvidia
<BigRedS> or if udev/hal/whatever guesses wrongly
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it never has for me
<DJones> hamitron: Is this any use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution
<BigRedS> no, but sometimes people want to move buttons around or something
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: moving buttons around doesn't involve xorg.conf changes
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: keyboard mapping is all hot-changeable now
<BigRedS> what's the currently approved way of doing it?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration ?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and/or some xkb magic in your session
<BigRedS> and swapping buttons 1 and 2 on a mouse?
<hamitron> I get no signal to my display yet
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> and monitor config?
<MartijnVdS> monitor config isn't swapping buttons, monitor config -> xradnr
<MartijnVdS> xrandr
<MartijnVdS> (or the gnome variant using the randr extension)\
<BigRedS> no, I know they're different. They're just things I've done in xorg.conf before
<DJones> hamitron: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config First few lines have suggestions on how to create an xorg.conf
<BigRedS> I've no had cause to manually configure X for a while, but I dispise this idea that you're now not supposed to
<hamitron> iirc, I have to disable EDID
<hamitron> or something
<hamitron> and tell it what display to use
<MartijnVdS> Where do you buy such crappy hardware? :P
<hamitron> I've had it longer than there has been ubuntu
<hamitron> haha
<MartijnVdS> there's your problem
<MartijnVdS> stone-age hardware
<hamitron> yeh well, I'm getting annoyed with things not working
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> may have to install slackware 11.0 or something, to get the settings
<oimon> lol
<oimon> hamitron: run knoppix live usb
<hamitron> I got a slackware cd here
<hamitron> easier
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> does slackware have livecd mode?
<MartijnVdS> haha. ha.
<MartijnVdS> ha
<hamitron> no, but I can delete my swap partition
<oimon> i didn't realise people actually used slackware/arch/gentoo
<hamitron> oimon: only when I have to
<DJones> oimon: Slackware is good for learning
<oimon> i thought they were just words people used when they were trolling on forums
<oimon> :D
<hamitron> I know this isn't ubuntu's fault ofc, it is the X.org problem
<hamitron> but still hassle
<hamitron> I'm sure I have a xorg.conf file backup somewhere, with all the stuff in
<hamitron> just dunno which "safe" place I put it
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> i use tomboy for that guff
<hamitron> but you know it is bad when you were coming across ipchains scripts
<hamitron> :S
<oimon> hehehe
<popey> \o/ guff
<oimon> unfortunately i can't run latest tomboy on lucid cos popey hasn't packaged it yet :D
<popey> ooo, thanks for the reminder
 * popey will do it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I don't mind having text files in folders, I just need to delete all the old ones
<hamitron> and have it sorted
<oimon> popey: i wonder if you will have any problems, since v1.6 uses stuff like libgtk2.0-cil-dev >= 2.10.4
<oimon> popey: ignore that, i got my version numbers wrong
<oimon> i had a right palaver yesterday getting inssider working on lucid due to libgtk2.0-cil dependencies :(
<Laney> i thought lucid had gtk-sharp 2.12 already
<Laney> also it would be good to look at doing proper tomboy backports instead of the ppa
<popey> indeed
<popey> but the ppa is upstream with no patches
<popey> I guess a backport would have ubuntu patches?
<bigcalm> GAH!
<popey> GAH?
 * bigcalm signs and send the VM contract
<bigcalm> Keep forgetting
<Laney> that is true they are usually straight rebuilds of what's in subsequent releases
<popey> still, a valuable thing to have
<Laney> especially for oneiric+ as backports will be enabled by default and presented in the software centre nicely :-)
<popey> sweet
 * Laney is rather chuffed about that
 * popey hugs pbuilder-dist
<oimon> Laney: by default? looks like more reboots for me then
<Laney> no
<Laney> stuff won't be installed by default
<oimon> "especially for oneiric+ as backports will be enabled by default"
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> we have this flag called NotAutomatic which means that it gets a low priority
<screen-x> hmm, if backports is enabled by default, whats the difference between -backports and -updates?
<Laney> the difference is the type of updates that are allowed to go into each
<Laney> !backports
<lubotu3> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<BigRedS> I'd assumed backports gets feature upgrades, updates only get security updates?
<Laney> well, important bug fixes
<BigRedS> oh yeah
<Laney> there's -security for security only changes
<BigRedS> those too
<screen-x> so -updates gets important non-security bug fixes, -backports could potentialy have a version with new features.
<oimon> i'm sure there were less kernel updates in the olden days (ubuntu 2005)
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 2005 in Launchpad itself "Cannot deprecate a team (dup-of: 50525)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2005
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 50525 in Launchpad itself "Can't delete a team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50525
<oimon> be quiet botty
<Laney> Dear #ubuntu-uk, if you like Belle and Sebastian and have Spotify then please visit this link: http://open.spotify.com/track/34DM93BGyz3o8XnpgFbAB8 Thanks, Love from Iain.
<popey> in my mind it's "updates is 1.1.1 -> 1.1.2, security is 1.1.1 -> 1.1.1OMGSECURITYHOLEFIXED", backports is 1.1.1 -> 1.2"
<oimon> Laney: i'm going to see b&s next week in concert
<popey> massive oversimplification ^
<Laney> yeah summat like that
<Laney> oimon: awesome! I saw them last year :>
<screen-x> popey: heh that makes sense :)
<Laney> the guy is surprisingly young (at least to my expectations)
<oimon> i actually prefer camera obscura but hey, it was supposed to be an old school mates meetup, now ther are only 2.5 of us going
<Laney> I prefer this version to the B&S original tbh
 * screen-x is disturbed by the non-integer attendee acount
<oimon> screen-x: somebody is bringin their other half :D
<popey> (
<screen-x> )
<popey> \o/
<popey> just checkin'
<screen-x> :)
<oimon> >-|o
<Laney> {([<
<screen-x> >])}
<screen-x> this could get tedious ;-)
<oimon> ubuntu-uk needs to start doing some member surveys :D
<oimon> how many people in the room are left handed/ how many have buttons on the LHS/ atheist vs theist
 * Laney has NO BUTTONS
<popey> -!- seeker [~seeker@unaffiliated/seeker] has quit [DISGUSTED!]
<bigcalm> popey: called 150. Upgrading to 30mb does mean the start of a new 12 month contract. Signing and returning now
<popey> hehe
<popey> i should open that letter then
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> And check your info is correct on it
<bigcalm> They didn't have Hayley down as the 2nd contact name
<popey> I want to upgrade my desktop CPU to be quieter
<popey> want quiet fans and a quiet heatsink for a q6600 cpu
<bigcalm> Na, just wear headphones
<Laney> wrap a duvet around it
<screen-x> haha
<hamitron> oh I give up :/
<hamitron> gonna just use the terminal
<popey> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134
<popey> looks interesting
<popey> whats the clear plastic thing?
<popey> in the right hand pic
<bigcalm> Choking hazard o.O
<Laney> packaging i guess
<popey> ah
<andylockran> what's giffgaff like?
<bigcalm> Looks like it, yeah
<Laney> I used to have a huge zalman flower job, that was great
<screen-x> could be a baffle
<popey> i hate doing hardware bits
<hamitron> it has one of them holes at the top to hang in in a shop
<oimon> popey: colleagues asked me to get 2 x gtx590 nvidia cards = most powerful graphics cards available...wonder if they are into bitcoin
<hamitron> what is wrong with gaming? :)
<hamitron> bitcoining isn't the only gpu thing
<oimon> Â£600 a pop
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> actually i think they are doing astronomical modellig
<oimon> mathematica/maple/matlab all support cuda
<hamitron> that is their cover story for bitcoining :/
<popey> oimon: i hear ati > nvidia for bitcoin
<oimon> lol
<popey> "Please note that the price of Lm Technologies 802.11N 150Mbps Fast Wireless NANO USB Adapter, Compatible with Windows XP / Vista / Mac 10.4 and 10.5 / Linux Ubuntu 8.04 (3cm Long) has decreased from Â£7.99 to Â£7.25 since you placed it in your Shopping Basket. "
<popey> \o/
<hamitron> do packages of gui apps require xorg to be installed, to be installed themselves?
<gord> awesooooome - free mars bar
<gord> its been a long time since i'v bought a mars bar, would not be surprised if you aren't saving enough to get one :(
<bigcalm> I had to powercycle the superhub again this morning. Maybe Netgear just don't like me
<popey> hamitron: they tend to depend on something that depends on something that depends on x server, yes
<popey> bigcalm: i still haven't yet
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> :/
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<hamitron> would it be hard to make a dummy xorg package to trick them?
<gord> hamitron, what are you really trying to accomplish :)
<gord> without xorg those applications aren't going to run anyway
<hamitron> I want X to run
<hamitron> with nvidia drivers
<oimon> hamitron: what card/monitor?
<hamitron> an old version of X.org ideally
<hamitron> well, my latest problem is a Geforce 420 go 32mb
<hamitron> but I have older cards that need older X.org also
<hamitron> so thinking I should maybe just do something drastic and fix all my problems
<hamitron> :)
<DJones> hamitron: I've got a geforce 2 at home that runs using the nv driver
<hamitron> I can run teh nv driver, yes
<hamitron> but I want nvidia
<DJones> hamitron: Since about 10.04 I've not been able to get the nvidia driver working
<hamitron> last version to work was 8.04 for geforce 2 and below
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> because of the X.org version
<DJones> Have you tried the nouveau driver
<hamitron> it works too
<hamitron> but I want nvidia
<hamitron> ;/
<oimon> which nvidia driver are you using?
<oimon> the legacy one ?
<hamitron> 96 on this laptop
<hamitron> but it would be handy having 71 as well
<hamitron> so having a version of X.org 7.3 or lower would fix a lot
<oimon> are you on natty?
<hamitron> Lucid
<oimon> and the additional hardware drivers thing doesn't give you the correct result?
<hamitron> I am headbutting a wall, and I haven't even tried unity yet ;)
<czajkowski> anyone on giffgaff do I have to top up before I can fill in some form to keep my number???
<hamitron> I don't have a gui now
<popey> Laney: http://paste.ubuntu.com/612770/
<popey> ever seen that?
<popey> says my gpg sig is bad
<Laney> launchpad bug
<popey> joy
<Laney> it should still have accepted it
<popey> oh
<hamitron> oimon: I got this laptop working last time, by using a custom xorg.conf
<popey> [PPA popey] [ubuntu/lucid] tomboy 1.6.0-0ubuntu1~ppa~lucid0 (Accepted)
<popey> hehe, just got the mail
<popey> thanks Laney
<hamitron> but if I had an old version of X.org, I could generate it also
<gord> so my router has forgotton the password for some reason, no idea why. its now that i find out to access the built in help, you have to log in...
<davmor2> gord: press an hold the reset button then it's normally admin admin or with capitals :D
<gord> davmor2, don't want to go as far as a factory reset yet, at least, not until i have found my isp details
 * Laney uploads 1.6.1 to Debian
<DJones> gord which isp is it?
<Laney> can you feel the [Tomboy] love tonight?
<gord> DJones, be
<BigRedS> oooh
<DJones> gord: Right, I was going to say if it was sky broadband, most of those seem to use sky & admin as username/pw
<BigRedS> alt+f2 apears to always open underneath maximised windows now, presumably 'cause they have focus...
<gord> DJones, right, this isn't an isp supplied router anyway
<oimon> hamitron: what kjind of screen is it?
<oimon> vga connector or dvi
<Psychobudgie> gord, have you ever changed the password on the router?
<oimon> hamitron: check out bug 348905
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 348905 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-96 (Ubuntu) "GeForce4 420 Go issue" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348905
 * popey wishes his dell laptop still lived
<popey> might dig it out once more tonight and kick it
<oimon> which model?
<popey> the funky one
<popey> gen 2
<oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/xperia-play-first-in-line-for-mobile-minecraft-port/
<popey> xps
<Psychobudgie> Psychobudgie, has gone and installed fedora 15
<BigRedS> that's a silly idea
<Psychobudgie> seems less hastle than waiting for ubuntu to fix itself
<BigRedS> Debian?
<BigRedS> at least that gives you a bunch of sensble tools and a sane package manager
<popey> how can I tell what socket my cpu is?
<popey> â hardware newb
<shauno> I was tempted to see if fedora installed on mine.  then I remembered that if it does work, I'm not left with something I'd particularly want to use :/
<popey> c2d 6700
<BigRedS> intel ark?
<popey> LGA775  ?
<popey> so my mobo should support a Q8300?
<shauno> I'd try to find out what model your mobo is, and look for it's manual.  not all procs are supported simply because you have the same physical socket, unfortunately
<BigRedS> I'm sure hardware is designed to keep hardware guys in a job
<hamitron> oimon: lcd on the laptop
<popey> asus P5N32-E
<popey> says it supports 1333MHz
<popey> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/P5N32E_SLI/
<popey> http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/List.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=P5N32-E%20SLI&p=1&s=22
<popey> hmm, core 2 quad Q6700 is the highest
<popey> or a c2extreme?
<shauno> I never figured out what the difference between c2q and c2e was (besides 5-700 euros)
<screen-x> have to compare on ark.intel.com
<Psychobudgie> Using Fedora atm and to be honest it's way nippier than natty, well after I'd spent an hour installing and configuring everything I need. Has the latest Evolution to boot.
<oimon> fed15?
<Psychobudgie> yeah
<shauno> (the price bit being less relevant now that they've got a year or two under their belt :)
<Myrtti> I refuse to see how having Evolution in any distro is somehow a benefit or a perk
<BigRedS> it makes other things look better
<Myrtti> good call
<Psychobudgie> nout wrong with evo
<BigRedS> but, yeah, apparently it works alright
<Psychobudgie> works fine and has done for a few years now
<davmor2> Myrtti: work fine for me :D
<BigRedS> there's a guy here using it. the only problem he has is he can't read mail in subscribed folders...
<Myrtti> yeah, I just rather poke myself in the eye than use Evolution, evoexchange bridge and other painful user interactions
<screen-x> they are almost identical, except the q6700 has a lower tdp, and is newer
<davmor2> BigRedS: That's a feature means you can't open a virus ;)
<BigRedS> making anything work with exchange is a pain
<screen-x> Psychobudgie: did you upgrade evolution between hardy and lucid? Evolution changed database format (to sqlite I think) and the upgrade script worked about 30% of the time.
<hamitron> !edid
<Psychobudgie> screen-x, I did
<Psychobudgie> Myrtti, out of interest what do you use for email on ubu?
<shauno> I find this is the biggest benefit of imap; no harm in blowing away the local datastore if it starts misbehaving
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: so how is gnome3  in fedora?
<Laney> I used to have a script ~/bin/fix-thunderbird.sh that ran daily (this was the interval in which Thunderbird corrupted its local database)
<oimon> tb3 is great for me
<oimon> after disabling the offline folders things
<BigRedS> I still don't like the broken-by-default search thing
<Laney> the ISP database is rather sexy
<oimon> BigRedS: filter these messages works great on a per-folder basis
<oimon> agree that the other search takes longer
<oimon> hey i jsut discovered something amazing :D
<oimon> if you upload a list of books that you own to google books, you can then perform a search on the words inside just those books in your library
<popey> is it "poke popey with a stick and he updates packages"?
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, well it works which is one huge advantage over ubuntu at the moment
 * popey notes Unity works on the 3 machines he uses it on
 * popey shrugs
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: its works, i mean, gnome3 does, in natty.
<oimon> e.g. search linux and it gives the excerpts on page 401 of programming perl
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, it doesn't as of the latest updates
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: what was the issue?
<oimon> unity 3d is rather ...fussy about gfx cards
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, can't recall, it's on the forums
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: becaue, i havent noticed anything recently.
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, it's just really bad at noticing which folder I'm in
<BigRedS> I was really expecting a more capable search by now, too
<BigRedS> I want to be able to put in "from:someone@somehwhere subject:work" or similar
<BigRedS> rather than endless clicking and waiting
<oimon> i rarely search folders that aren't inbox and sent
<oimon> hmmm "publish via ubuntu one" crashes nautilus
<BigRedS> Ah, I frequently search massive ones that are
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, one of the issues is to do with .ICEauthority and the other is to do with nvidia drivers
<Psychobudgie> both break it to the point of unusability
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: ok, i havent tried it on nvidia, so wont experience it, i am not familier with .ICEauthority,
<oimon> where does ubuntuone store its logs?
<Psychobudgie> add to that the multitude of issues I've had with compiz, unity, invisible windows and overlays, banshee and just the general polish of natty, I thought I'd take the opportunity to have a look at another distro
<jel> oimon: it's based on couchdb, so look for that stuff
<Psychobudgie> at the moment, though it may change, I'm liking f15 over natty
<BigRedS> I've never lasted more than a couple of hours on Fedora
<BigRedS> there's always sooo many hoops to jump through to make things work
<Psychobudgie> nah, theres a couple of nice apps which will install everything you need, takes about 15 minutes to do
<BigRedS> ah, that's probably what I didn't do
<Psychobudgie> pretty much like ubuntu did a couple of years back
<BigRedS> I just remember continually adding repos, each of which only provided about five packages
<jel> BigRedS, nope, I agree with you.  Redhat = nightmare of poorly maintained packages.
<jel> (and minimalist)
 * brobostigon will be sticking with debian or ubuntu.
<BigRedS> I was debian before ubuntu. three repos is quite enough thankyouverymuch
<Psychobudgie> redhat/fedora is a nightmare if you don't know what you are doing
<Psychobudgie> I would like to think that I know what I'm doing
<jel> something like 16 years with linux now, so I know what I'm doing.  That's how I know it sucks.
<Psychobudgie> seriously, having used unity for a week or so, I reevaluated the defination of sucks
<jel> unity also sucks :)
<BigRedS> I tried to like gnome3
<BigRedS> I really did
<Psychobudgie> it sucks more
<BigRedS> but it made me want to hurt things
<BigRedS> unity, on the other hand, seems absolutely fine for me :)
<BigRedS> though I've got this weird thing of alt+f2 hiding behind maximised windows which I didn't have yesterday
<Psychobudgie> I like gnome 3, it doesn't work as well as it can in ubuntu, F15 is built around it so I've gone with that for the moment until ubuntu sorts itself out
<Psychobudgie> that's the great thing with linux though, choice
<BigRedS> nah, most of my issues with Gnome 3 were design choices rather than bugs
<BigRedS> in fact, most of my issues were the workspaces
<Psychobudgie> I choose gnome-desktop and gnome3  over unity and gnome 2
<BigRedS> I think we did this yesterday :)
<Psychobudgie> until it works properly in ubuntu I'll probably use something else
<Psychobudgie> we did :p
<oimon> unity2d is a massive fail if you want to switch windows without using alt-tab
<Psychobudgie> heh
<BigRedS> gnome3 has been a continual rant of mine for the past couple of weeks
<Psychobudgie> I love it
<oimon> even bigger fail if you wanna switch windows and the icon on the launcher is not on the top icons that appears onscreen
<BigRedS> yeah, you freak :)
<oimon> mind you, default gnome2 sucks a bit
<oimon> especially on rhel it looks like win2k
<mrwarmth> After a few weeks of using gnome3 I started moving my mouse to the top left of the screen when I wanted to run something, no matter which OS I was using at the time...
<Psychobudgie> I find the app switching far better in g3 than unity
<Psychobudgie> app switching in unity is one of my pet hates
<BigRedS> it's teh same a gnome2 isn't it?
<Psychobudgie> no
<BigRedS> I disliked gnome3's thing of alt-f2 only having one icon for each app, and having to go 'down' to get others. though I'd probably get used to that...
<BigRedS> unity on 11.04 seems to behave the same as gnome2 on squeeze? as far as alt+f2 and ctrl-alt-arrow goes
<BigRedS> oh yeah, there's no taskbar thing, and it's that popout thingy at the side
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, or you can just sweep the mouse to the top left and it will show all running windows
<mrwarmth> Does gnome3 do that thing with the menubar where it puts it at the top of the screen like Unity does? I think they were talking about doing that at some point
<Psychobudgie> mrwarmth, no they decided that it was stupid and nobody in their right mind would like it
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: orhit superkey,
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: ah yeah. That's not a 'just' for me, my mouse is at least 6" away from the keyboard
<BigRedS> :)
<mrwarmth> Psychobudgie, :)
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, yup, choice is a good thing
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: that's one of the great things about this unity/gnome3 divide - people making choices
<BigRedS> and, of course, it's a brand new Religious Argument
<BigRedS> :)
<Psychobudgie> but that is what I hate about unity, you have no choice
<BigRedS> yeah you do
<BigRedS> you can not have unity
<Psychobudgie> shuttleworth has decreed that thou shalt not configure it
<mrwarmth> wonder if there's a correlation between vi/emacs users and unity/gnome3 users?
<BigRedS> ah yeah, it's old-gnomish in that regard
<BigRedS> but gnome3's short on configuration, too
<BigRedS> even with that tool you download for it
<Psychobudgie> BigRedS, as MS has decreed that unity is pretty much ubuntu's future, without it you may aswell use something else
<AlanBell> if you do alt+f2 and type "free the fish" you get a little fish wandering about
<BigRedS> mrwarmth: vi and unity users are correct, the others are not :)
<AlanBell> how do you turn the damn thing off?
<BigRedS> Psychobudgie: like XFCE or KDE or LXDE?
<BigRedS> the only non-choice is Gnome3 for which there's a repo that breaks unity
<BigRedS> AlanBell: restart gnome-panel
<brobostigon> BigRedS: it doesnt break unity, i cn sitch between unity and gnome-shell without issue.
<BigRedS> ooh!
<BigRedS> I was under the impression it did, but I'd already broken unity before installing gnome3
<Psychobudgie> As gnome 2 is no longer being developed by the gnome team unity will have to move to gnome 3 at some point or stick with a dead package
<BigRedS> or the unity project will have to absorb the gnome libs they need
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, it broke it here
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, unity would only run in 2d with gnome 3 installed
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: it didnt here, on two tries.
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: unity 3d still runs fine here.
<Psychobudgie> mind you, as I dislike unity so much it wasn't something I couldn't live with
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: every so often, before release, and after, i wouldswitch back and forth, and see how both were going.
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, same here, normally have one machine using the alpha/beta and another on version
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i play dangerous, i install dev versions to sdhc, and then dist-upgrade when i amhappy.
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, for the first time ever I failed to like natty at any point in development
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: samehere to a point, hence i played with the gnome3-teams ppa very early.
<Psychobudgie> I tried really hard to like unity, I did, I gave it a fair crack at the whip
<Psychobudgie> I found myself disabling global menus, overlay scrollbars, changing anything and everything I could
<Psychobudgie> there came a point when there wasn't any point to using it
<brobostigon> ok.
<oimon> Psychobudgie: do you usually use a dock
<axtra> Can anyybody help me with a wireless question?
<Psychobudgie> but hey ho, hopefully come the next lts release things will be a bit better, if not I'll go find another distro
<Psychobudgie> oiman, I used docky and yes I know he's involved with unity
<jel> I like the global menu idea; appeals to my amiga history (and my desire for screen realestate).  Unity, the scrollbars, and the window buttons annoy the tits off me though.  Already installed mint on my laptop instead.
<BigRedS> axtra: that sounds alarmingly productive :)
<BigRedS> but go for it, just ask the question and anyone who can help will :)
<jel> Might do the same with my desktop when I don't need it for work for a wee while.
<oimon> Psychobudgie: on the machines i have installed natty on, i'm using classic in the hope that unity will improve by 11.10
<Psychobudgie> jel, the global menu on workbench though was developed for a time when your average resolution was 640x480 and moving to the menus didn't require a taxi to get there
<Psychobudgie> oimon, from the noises mark s has been making I'm not getting my hopes up
<AlanBell> thanks BigRedS
<jel> Psychobudgie, lol @ the taxi line :)  I actually think they were far superior, hidden until requested.
<axtra> I was unable to connect to my friend's wireless in Kubuntu - most recent version - using Network manager. I was able to connect to the WiFi in a BT5 livecd, but when I installed Wicd on Kubuntu, I couldn't  connect. I can also connect to my home wifi with this install, so I'm not sure what the problem is
<jel> Although on ami, they blocked the whole UI if I recall correctly :D
<jel> p.s.: my res was 1280x256 :)
<jel> Or something like that.
<Psychobudgie> jel, I'm pretty sure magicwb or mui allowed you to use app based menus rather than the global ones
<Psychobudgie> jel, this was seen as a step forward at the time
<jel> Ahh, yes, MagicWB.  I knew I was half-remembering another kind of menu :)
<Psychobudgie> jel, and here we are taking, imo, a step back
<Psychobudgie> jel, global menus are great if you are on a netbook and using everything in fullscreen.
<BigRedS> axtra: do you get any error messages?
<Psychobudgie> jel, global menus are not great if you are on anything else
<axtra> BigRedS it alternates between bad password and unable to get ip address
<jel> Psychobudgie, aye, you might have me convinced :)
<jel> As long as we can agree that radial menus are the devil ;)
<Psychobudgie> oh yes
<jel> Hmm.  Some evil part of my mind just invented radial ribbons.
<Azelphur> popey: I got a trading standards enforcement team headed to aircondirect :D
<shauno> because they shipped 1 day too slow?
<BigRedS> axtra: hmm, that's odd
<BigRedS> I'm afraid I'm out of ideas now :(
<Psychobudgie> jel, radial ribbon marquees
<Azelphur> shauno: I paid extra for next day, they didn't deliver for 4 days later.
<Psychobudgie> mmmm
<jel> Psychobudgie, with blinking notifications?
<Azelphur> shauno: and ignored multiple requests to not deliver the item as it was no longer required, and refused to acknowledge UK distance selling laws, and have streams of problems people (including uuk people) over their sister company laptops direct
<Psychobudgie> jel, awesome, if it can in some way interface with an activex control we might be on to a winner
<Azelphur> so I figured I'd take them to the cleaners over it :)
<jel> I was thinking XMLRPC.
<jel> There may be an XMLRPC activex component, which we can connect to the... let's call it the Mayfair Pole Widget, with the help of yahoo pipes.
<screen-x> jel: wut?
<Psychobudgie> jel, should have all its settings saved in the cloud
<jel> Psychobudgie, yes.  Semantic Web 3.5.
<jel> It'll need an active directory plugin, to apply the right variation of cloud settings to different pee-cees.
<Psychobudgie> heh
<Psychobudgie> right, I really must go get some work donw
<Psychobudgie> bbiab
<jel> Don't work too hard after all that brainstorming :)
<axtra> Back
<PalaPad> Evening all
<dogmatic69> o/
<popey> Azelphur: http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2008/08/27/dont-shop-with-laptops-direct-unless-you-enjoy-marketing-email-and-a-hard-sell/
<popey> Azelphur: people from the company are subscribed to that, so do leave a comment and they'll see it :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Trials and tribulations with EFI - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/137093.html
<ali1234> does anyone know how to set firefox to spell checker american?
<ali1234> preferably without messing up the whole computer
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: install the package that contains it, then right-click in the field and select it?
<ali1234> oh excellent, thanks
<ali1234> by default it is on english/australia
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> back from my holidays
<brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :)
<brobostigon> yay. :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: had fun?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: definitely :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: where did you go, i know you told, but i cant remember.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: Egypt, to see the family
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, :)
<AlanBell> o/
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o
<emmy_t>  /list
<brobostigon> emmy_t: no space infront of.
<dutchie> also /list on freenode is Not Recommended
<brobostigon> dutchie: irssi warns you, if you are sure, or not.when you issue that command.
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> other clients may not
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<DJones> Also depends whether they wanted !list or /list
<emmy_t> just getting familiarised with things...brand-new to IRC, although been running AIX servers for 20 year
<emmy_t> ...complete newb ;-)
<MartijnVdS> nah
<MartijnVdS> if you know AIX, Linux will be easy
<brobostigon> welcome  emmy_t :)
<emmy_t> thx
 * brobostigon is not familier with aix, other than whathe has read in history.
<MartijnVdS> shouldn't that me smitty_t though, as an AIX user :P
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's pronounced "aches"\
<emmy_t> AIX - Aint unIX
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's "real" UNIX from IBM, basically
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so it is svr* conformant?
<emmy_t> Advanced Interactive eXecutive (or just a good way to charge load of money)
<emmy_t> yes - well, kind of
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX
<emmy_t> it's pretty much a hybrid - and gives me a decent salary....
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's from the SysV branch of the UNIX family, but it has more BSD features than other SysV unixes
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg
<emmy_t> enjoy the reading - but if someone says it has a "registry", I'm gonna give up in this Linux stuff !!!! :-)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, interesting. yes i have looked atthat graph, many times, :)
<MartijnVdS> emmy_t: There's not a registry as such :) Do you have any specific Ubuntu questions? :)
<emmy_t> not at the moment - as I said - I'm RTFM, about IRC, and this was the first link I pasted into a *very* new installation of xchat - so wanted to see what it was all about....
<MartijnVdS> Well.. welcome :)
<brobostigon> the closest i have used to that, is either solaris, darwin, or freebsd. i suspect.
<emmy_t> looks good, and reminds me back when I used to use "archie" and "gopher" etc (yes, I'm showing my age!!)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> emmy_t: Are you using a commandline/server install, instead of the desktop?
<emmy_t> I'm just using my wife's laptop (I forced her to use ubuntu as I knew she couldn't break it)
<MartijnVdS> haha
<brobostigon> lol
 * hamitron has broken it
<hamitron> ;)
<emmy_t> trust me - she has 3 icons:
<emmy_t> 1 The Internet
<brobostigon> thats another reason, i give my mum, mumbuntu, :)
<emmy_t> 2 The Word Processor
<emmy_t> 3 The EMAIL
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: granbuntu in my case, but same idea ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes,quite, :)
<emmy_t> lol
<DJones> emmy_t: That surprises me, I would have thought #1 would be Facebook rather than internet :)
<emmy_t> no - no facebook allowed in our house ! ! ! I can't stand the idea of her coming home from work to tend her virtual farm
<brobostigon> my mum has broken ubuntu aswell though.
<emmy_t> no way - how?
<brobostigon> emmy_t: update manger messing up.
<emmy_t> dropped the laptop on the floor ?
<brobostigon> not her faulti suppose, but she didnt know anydifferent, when apttried toremove some crucial packages.
<brobostigon> and broke grub2 amongst other things.
<emmy_t> ah - I had that problem with this machine on an older distro (v.8 I think) but with only 3 things to re-install - no big deal ;-)
<brobostigon> she clicked update, without realising the consequences.
<brobostigon> mind you, she has broke android on her phone, enough times.
<brobostigon> who knows how.
<emmy_t> you need a "do you know the consequences" prompt after the first click (but that's too much a M$ product....
<MartijnVdS> emmy_t: it shows you one if you try to remove an essential package
<brobostigon> yes. quite.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i asked her after, and it didnt do so.
<MartijnVdS> strange
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<brobostigon> took me about 30 mins to fix, with a live cd, so, it wasnt too huge.
<brobostigon> the closest mydad has been to unixas far as i know, is either playing games on my mums machine,or looks at websites served by linux servers, inclusive of google.
<brobostigon> or unix-like.*
<brobostigon> eeek, sorry dad.
<brobostigon> hehe, he isntlistening, :)
<emmy_t> what - you mean google is running on a unix-like o/s ? ! - The company I work for are adamant that it runs on windoze, 'cos their users can use it through internet explorer
<emmy_t> seriously.....
<brobostigon> emmy_t: i reckon google uses either bsd or linux.
<brobostigon> i suppose you could use nmap to be sure.
<shauno> usually that'll just tell you what their loadbalancers use
<damian> google is really a cluster of hp/compaq ipaq's :)
<brobostigon> fair point.
<brobostigon> lol
<shauno> had a friend who had a cluster of ooold compaqs.  tried so hard to convince him that if he just bought a modern computer, he'd have more power, and the leccy bill would pay for itself inside a year :/
<daubers> Evening
<brobostigon> noswaith dda daubers
<emmy_t> anyway - gotta go now
<shauno> completely off-topic, but nerd-friendly - http://www.thinkwithportals.com/music.php  :)
<dwatkins> I like Portal 2 a lot, shauno.
<shauno> not sure I'd buy the soundtrack, but luckily, they're giving it away
<dwatkins> Indeed, I like some of those tunes but not all.
<BigRedS> In unity, when I drag my mouse to the left a thing with buttons on it pops out
<BigRedS> what's that called?
<BigRedS> Oh, it's a launcher apparently
<aquarius> popey, ping: is postcast.ubuntu-uk.org down?
<shauno> ppuk has no ipv6?  why fore?
<shauno> (appears down here too.  pingable, but timeout on http)
<HazRPG> same here
<bigcalm> I want to use ticker-tape storage with syncany
<mgdm> are you a Markov chain?
<BigRedS> If I want to file a bug against the behaviour of the alt+f2 dialog, is that the 'unity' package?
<BigRedS> (I do mean the one in unity)
<BigRedS> ah, there's other alt+f2 bugs filed against unity. If I'm wrong, at least I'm in company :)
<jacobw> yeah, i've found it to be buggy as well
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I'm finding it no more buggy than Gnome 2 so far
<BigRedS> but Unity seems to have mistakes, whereas Gnome 2 seems to have dumb ideas
<jacobw> unity has loads of great ideas
<jacobw> cathedral vs bazaar
<jacobw> imo, unity is more bazaar than cathedral
<shauno> really?
<BigRedS> well, it was cathedral and became more bazaar with the natty alpha didn't it?
<BigRedS> canonical's very cathedral
<BigRedS> cathedric?
<bigcalm> "We appreciate that you have been with Yahoo! Mail for the past 13 years."
<bigcalm> Oh my
<BigRedS> well done
<BigRedS> That's something of an achievement :)
<bigcalm> It's scary
<jibadeeha> bigcalm, you should be given a victoria cross for bravery
<bigcalm> Or lazyness
<bigcalm> I opened my yahoo account when I needed a address for spamming. Then it was kept because Flickr requires it
<BigRedS> "it works, I didn't change it"
<bigcalm> Don't think I've ever used it for real email
 * hamitron has got teh same mail and HAS used it as his primary address all these years
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> finding the imap access on yahoo buggy though :/
<BigRedS> nobody implements imap properly
<bigcalm> I made it into the podcast \o/
<BigRedS> that's another of my rants :)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> well, I'm giving ubuntu 1 last try
<hamitron> if it doesn't work this time, I'm moving
<hamitron> that is my main rant
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> what's wrong with it? You've still got Gnome 2 haven't yo?
<hamitron> I can't get X working
<hamitron> so no
<BigRedS> ohh yeah
<jacobw> man, it sucks that every beatles/stones/who/zep video on YT has of comments saying 'we hate justin beiber'
<BigRedS> I just assumed this was yet another unity rant :)
<jacobw> who cares :| just chill out
<hamitron> hell, i have nothing against unity
<hamitron> apart from teh rants about it
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<hamitron> but I've installed ubuntu, formated, installed slackware, formated, installed ubuntu
<jacobw> i've tried gnome shell, it just gives me a headache
<hamitron> so last chance
<hamitron> :D
<BigRedS> hamitron: is this you having funny/old hardware?
<hamitron> it isn't funny
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> haha
<jacobw> lol, distro cycling
<jacobw> maybe it'll work *this* time
<hamitron> a Geforce 420 go is not old
<hamitron> well, not old and useless anyway
<BigRedS> didn't a not-that-recent kernel dump a whole load of graphics card support?
<hamitron> but I have made a dump of the EDID for this attempt
<hamitron> you are kidding?
<hamitron> :-o
<BigRedS> nah, few years ago. I remember it being a list going back to the mid-nineties...
<BigRedS> I've no idea how old a geforce 420 is though
<BigRedS> I don't do graphics
<hamitron> geforce 4 will be 2004
<hamitron> at a guess
<BigRedS> oh, I suspect that would've been too recent for that cull
<hamitron> the graphics is supported by the nvidia 96 driver
<BigRedS> though I'm finding people saying the module wont complile past 2.6.23
<hamitron> but there is a problem with screen detection
<hamitron> ?
<hamitron> nvidia-96?
<BigRedS> '9631'
<BigRedS> so perhaps
<BigRedS> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=63669
<BigRedS> for example
<BigRedS> (I'm sure you've come across that already, though)
 * hamitron facedesk
<hamitron> No!!!!!!!!!!!!
<hamitron> surely
<hamitron> there is a ubuntu package
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well, no going back now
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> going to at least try
<BigRedS> mmm
<BigRedS> I can't find anything specifically saying support's dropped in .24 though
<hamitron> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/nvidia-96
<BigRedS> oh cool
<hamitron> there is something about a bug with the new kernel
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> I'll use an old kernel if I have to
<hamitron> but nvidia do update stuff for kernels reasonably well
<hamitron> they just weren't willing to rewrite a massive part of the 71 drivers when xorg changed loads
<hamitron> they did backport the changes to 96 driver though
<hamitron> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E07  Powerslave - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/05/25/s04e07-powerslave/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Greetings, Planet Debian! - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/05/hello-planet-debian/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-26
<shauno> getting slammed with email at 00:00 is even less sociable than it sounds :/
<hamitron> AT LONG LAST
<hamitron> X is working
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron does a dance
<andylockran> czajkowski: are GiffGaff any good in Ireland do you know?
<BigRedS> hamitron: whooo!
<BigRedS> what did it take?
<hamitron> not 100% sure
<BigRedS> haha, it's annoying when that happens
<hamitron> it has a xorg.conf file
<hamitron> EDID dump
<hamitron> the config file tells it what display to use, and to use the EDID file
<BigRedS> oh, cool
<BigRedS> seems almost like the prper way to do it
<BigRedS> anyway, I've just noticed it's half past midnight :/
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> laters
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just a shame I had to use another OS to write me the xorg.conf
<hamitron> Â¬Â¬
<shauno> andylockran: looks like it's just eu roaming as far as pricing goes (and no data).  coverage-wise, you should be fine most places
<shauno> I've done dublin to galway without my modem disconnecting.  it's not a third-world country, it just looks like it in places :o)
<czajkowski> andylockran: no idea sorry never heard of them till I came here and seeing as I can use my irish cc on their site I suspect you cant buy one over there but mabe use one you already have
<screen-x> morning early people :)
<czajkowski> screen-x: howdy
<knightwise> morning everyone
<screen-x> morning czajkowski :)
<screen-x> and knightwise :)
<knightwise> hey screen-x czajkowski
<screen-x> are you still videocasting knightwise?
<knightwise> yep , got a kwtv episode standing by for this weekend
<knightwise> reviewing 2 android tablets this week
<czajkowski> I'd love to learn to sleep can you do a podcast on that please
<screen-x> czajkowski: awwww :(
<knightwise> czajkowski: i "feel your pain" (read some of your FB updates)
<knightwise> i know how backache can realy drive you nuts :(
<czajkowski> awake now since 4:30
<czajkowski> tis not normal after being on the beer
<knightwise> cant lie down  - cant sit - cant stand - cant walk kinda ache
<czajkowski> no backache just wide awake
<knightwise> ah
<knightwise> just
<knightwise> bling
<knightwise> www.spacemusic.nl
<czajkowski> ahh tv shows just landed down
<knightwise> great podcast with soothing music
<czajkowski> yay
<screen-x> protip: changing the volume in gnome doesn't work when headphones are plugged into phone..
<knightwise> hmmm.. got an old eeepc here from my sis in law
<knightwise> 7 inch 4gig version
<knightwise> wondering what to do with it
<screen-x> ooh, I've got one of those, a 701?
<knightwise> yep
<screen-x> I run 10.04 une on it, works well.
<knightwise> and what gui ?
<screen-x> netbook launcher
<knightwise> as in unity ?
<screen-x> no, the old one
<screen-x> unity was way too slow on it.
<screen-x> the UI from the old netbook remix
<knightwise> ah
<knightwise> i was wondering
<knightwise> if i put ubuntu server on it
<knightwise> and then install the "gnome shell'
<knightwise> will i have gnome without any apps ?
<screen-x> at work we have a couple of eeepcs that run ubuntu server and act as data loggers :)
<knightwise> (as oposed to doing a sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop ?)
<screen-x> I've not tried installing gnome shell on a server, so I don't know which dependencies you'll end up with..
<knightwise> gnome shell is just like ... "naked gnome" .. right ?
<screen-x> knightwise: not really, I think its just what the main UI is called in gnome 3. It still requires all the gnome libraries and infrastructure.
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> perhaps i could try a Lubuntu
<knightwise> that looks light and nice
<screen-x> not a fan of UNR?
<screen-x> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR
<knightwise> not really
<screen-x> fair enough
<AlanBell> knightwise: yeah, that will basically work
<knightwise> Hey AlanBell
<AlanBell> you will be missing the theme though
<knightwise> ah , but thats not really a problem
<AlanBell> I have done apt-get install gedit on servers before
<knightwise> so if i'm ever in a pinch and need a simple gui for a server , (without all the apps) i can just try that
<AlanBell> hauls in a most of an empty gnome desktop
<knightwise> and "roll my own" selection of required packaged ?
<AlanBell> GDM will be a bit broken
<knightwise> but , als a "thin clienty thing" it would be ok
<AlanBell> sure
<knightwise> i would just install NXfree client on it and have it connect to my nx server in the house
<AlanBell> and you can just install bits until the stuff you want works
<knightwise> Thats about what i'm looking for :)
<knightwise> Thanx guyz :) might give it a spin this afternoon
<AlanBell> you may get to the "sod it, just install ubuntu-desktop" stage
<knightwise> AlanBell: true
<knightwise> i'll tinker in a VM first , see how i like it
<knightwise> VM running now.
<diplo> Morning all
<screen-x> Since upgrading to 10.04, gnome print dialogue boxes take a while to become responsive, with text in the status column saying "waiting for status from printer" or something like that. Any way to disable that, I dont want to know the status of the printer, I want to queue a document to it regardless of it's status..
<screen-x> morning diplo
<screen-x> bug 534985
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 534985 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Gnome print dialog box poll for printer info every time it's opened" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534985
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> ello DJones
<DJones> Hi czajkowski Hows thing
<czajkowski> ntb
<DJones> Good, are you still work hunting
<czajkowski> yup
<DJones> Not so good from that point of view then
<DJones> Had your contract already come to an end, or is this in anticipation of it coming to an end
<knightwise> hmm .. lubuntu looks pretty good at first sight
<BigRedS> lubuntu's lxde isn't it?
<DJones> knightwise: I keep meaning to have a look at that
<BigRedS> openbox is awesome, if you can be arsed to configure it
<mrwarmth> knightwise, I still can't believe they called it that
<BigRedS> and lxde does a reasonable job of trivialising that
<knightwise> it looks fairly ok !
<knightwise> but it does sound like a lobotomy
<czajkowski> DJones: came to an end
<DJones> czajkowski: Right
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning campers
 * DJones opens the door of the tent & realises its not a tent
<danfish> DJones: I think he means we are all camp, ducky ;)
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> With the confirmation that twitter have bought tweetdeck for $40M, I wonder whether AlanBell will be selling circleoffriends to them for a similar amount
<diplo> Any one successfully built syncany ?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: likely
<Neoti> any one want to set up a telecoms business ?
<MooDoo> Neoti: phones?  internet?
<Neoti> Phones
<Neoti> voip
<Neoti> and internet lines
<screen-x> tubes?
<Neoti> i need a new challenge
<MartijnVdS> Neoti: gardening?
<Neoti> i can do the geeky stuff ... if some one else can do sales etc ... split things 50/50 etc
<MartijnVdS> cooking?
<Neoti> i currently cook to relax whjen i get home ... lol
<Neoti> and not doing anything for garding
<Neoti> lol
<screen-x> here probably isnt the best place to find people to do the non geeky stuff..
<Neoti> lol...
 * MartijnVdS looks at the "sci fi exhibit" doodle page
<AlanBell> DJones: they would have to pay more than that!
<DJones> AlanBell: Heh
<diplo> Anyone here use Facebook chat and having auth failures ?
<diplo> Was working this morning, but seems to have stopped recently
<DJones> diplo: Seems fine to me
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Think my internet connection dropped, won't reconnect after
<diplo> :/
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<JGJones> Greetings
<JGJones> I'm wondering - anyone here have an Asus Transformer?
<davmor2> morning czajkowski JGJones
<JGJones> As just wondering how you access the storage on the tablet via USB?
<JGJones> Ah it use MTP...I see there's a mtpfs (FUSE for MTP)...off I go...
<davmor2> JGJones: Ubuntu should just mount it as a visible drive
<JGJones> davmor2 - sadly it doesn't
<davmor2> JGJones: Is it android based?
<davmor2> JGJones: if so there maybe a mode switcher on the device
<Oli``> popey: helmet firmware?
<MartijnVdS> Oli``: you know, the stuff that makes it firm..
<Oli``> popey's tweet was: Overheard in the office. "Ooh! There's new firmware for my helmet!"
<Oli``> Extremely curious to know what on earth that could have meant
<Oli``> Unless it was firm-wear.. Which would be comparatively dull.
<popey> Oli``: motorcycle helmet
<mrwarmth> I think helmet firmware was a plot point in Lawnmower Man
<BigRedS> bluetooth thingy?
<popey> ya
<popey> got a headset on so he can make calls on the road and listen to tomtom thingy
<BigRedS> I tried one of those out at the weekend
<BigRedS> I kept getting distracted chatting to the guy behind me :(
 * BigRedS has no hyperthreading
<screen-x> BigRedS: at least you can't overlay IRC on your visor AR style
<BigRedS> haha
<DJones> Netbooks set to become cheaper http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/26/intel_atom_cedar_trail_price_fall/ if the reduction is passed on
<popey> i want to know what this new asus thing is going to be running
<gord> oh cool, if your sshed in somewhere and the client machine suspends, it somehow keeps the ssh session open - suspend is great, why didn't anyone tell me before ;)
<screen-x> gord: that must depend on the session timeout /keepalive settings on the server, and how long you suspend for
<gord> a while
<BigRedS> yeah, that suddenly started happening for me the other day
<BigRedS> I've no idea what I changed, but it's awesome
<BigRedS> I resumed an ssh session from ~36hrs after suspending my laptop
<screen-x> BigRedS: wow, thats long than I assumed would work.
<BigRedS> yeah, me too
<BigRedS> I've not made any config changes to sshd or the client, though
<BigRedS> so I'm not really sure how that worked. Unless it was done by the router I was using or something
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mark__> morning
<mark__> from liverpool
<brobostigon> morning mark__
<mark__> cheers
<DJones> Yay, another NW Englander :)
<BigRedS> NW England? that's gloucester way
<DJones> BigRedS: Sounds about right
<DJones> Although, could argue that Gloucster is more south east wales
<oimon> is fglrx the proprietary ati driver?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it is
<MartijnVdS> oimon: don't use unless 100% necessary
<oimon> MartijnVdS: free driver is causing problems
<oimon> but fglrx won't install
<oimon> well, it install, but still shows radeon in lsmod list
<MartijnVdS> oimon: are you using jockey-gtk?
<MartijnVdS> (you should be)
<oimon> shows no properiaty driver
<MartijnVdS> then fglrx doesn't support that chip anymore
<oimon> grrrbooo
<oimon> seriously?
<MartijnVdS> seriously
 * oimon hasn't used a machine with ati in for 10 years
<oimon> i'm screwed then
<MartijnVdS> The proprietary driver supports the newest few generations, and that's it
<MartijnVdS> older cards are well-supported by the free drivers
<oimon> not the x1250 though :(
<oimon> bug 318325
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 318325 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "[X1100] flickering after resume from ram " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/318325
<MartijnVdS> oimon: could your problem be related to my ancient x700 bug?
<oimon> doesn't work in unity and resume from suspend is bad
<MartijnVdS> oimon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/20283
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 20283 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "[X700] Really bad sync on HP NW8240" [Medium,Fix released]
<MartijnVdS> oimon: also https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8038
<lubotu3> Freedesktop bug 8038 in Driver/Radeon "Wobbly image on Radeon Mobility X700 (RV410)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<oimon> ubuntu sucks when you inherit crappy hardware :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: "radeondump" fixed it for me -- check those bug reports for my workarounds :)
<oimon> where do u find radeondump MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: in a package.. no idea which
<MartijnVdS> !info radeondump
<lubotu3> Package radeondump does not exist in natty
<MartijnVdS> oimon: or radeontool - utility to control ATI Radeon backlight functions on laptops
<MartijnVdS> I think it's in that package
<MartijnVdS> oimon: oh no.. it's "special" -- see http://who.is.free.fr/dokuwiki/doku.php/xrandr (look for "radeondump")
<BigRedS> anyone know of any good docs for simple-cdd?
<BigRedS> the page on the debian wiki is rather terse...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what is it?
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: for building mildly custome debian install cds
<BigRedS> seems to be the tool for doing same with ubuntu, too, which is handy
<BigRedS> I just want additional packages by default, and a couple of extra repos (for now), and following the wiki produces an error on which my google fu is failing :(
<BigRedS> http://wiki.debian.org/Simple-CDD/Howto is the wiki
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I'd use UCK for that
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: oooh
<BigRedS> I do need to do this to debian, too, though. and ideally debian first
<oimon> MartijnVdS: do u have a copy of radeondump on your box? the build is failing :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no, I don't have that machine anymore
<oimon> ok
<MartijnVdS> oimon: how is the build failing? did you do the dependency install thingy?
<oimon> looking for expat.h
<MartijnVdS> oimon: apt-file search :)
<oimon> ah found it...
<knightwise> it might be blasphemy , but i'm curious to try out Amahi
<MartijnVdS> avahi?
<knightwise> amahi
<knightwise> is IS fedora based but one heck of a "home server solution"
<oimon> MartijnVdS: runningn radeondump didn't fix...
<oimon> sounds like a similar issue though
<MartijnVdS> oimon: file a bug, point people at mine ;)
<oimon> is this video on a site of yours? the link is 404
<oimon> btw the patch diff doesn't work on the pge you gave me
<MartijnVdS> oimon: probably don't have the video anymore
<MartijnVdS> oimon: don't do the patch thing.. just build straight from git
<oimon> that's changed too
<oimon> fails :(
<safiyyah> slight problem
<safiyyah> skyoe keeps loading and aborting
<safiyyah> so I can't actually log in
<safiyyah> i tried it on the terminal and it came up then it terminated itself saying aborted
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ask on #radeon
<safiyyah> anyone?
<safiyyah> i mean skype*
<oimon> MartijnVdS: ok thanks for all the help
<andrewebdev> erm... I just hit some key in the terminal and it "stopped" my process, but it's still running in the task manager? Is there anyway I can get back into that process in the terminal?
<andrewebdev> (have some unsaved data in there o.O)
<TheOpenSourcerer> fg
<TheOpenSourcerer> you probly typed CTL+Z
<safiyyah> sorry, skype is aborting and won't load please anyone?
<andrewebdev> TheOpenSourcerer, thx, worked :)
<safiyyah> AlanBell,  skype is aborting, it was due to the upgrade according to google searches
<safiyyah> is your working?
<safiyyah> Is there a force command for this problem guys?
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: there's currently a problem with skype
<MartijnVdS> http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/05/26/skype-goes-down-apps-crashing-for-many/
<safiyyah> okay thanx MartijnVdS
<DJones> safiyyah: http://heartbeat.skype.com/2011/05/problems_signing_into_skype_an.html Seems to have a temporary solution
<DJones> But doesn't mention a linux fix
<andylockran> howdy
<screen-x> howdy andylockran :)
<andylockran> you well?
<screen-x> good thanks, just revived an eeepc that had a spilage, by putting it in an incubator :)
<screen-x> how about you?
<andylockran> yeah, doing very well thanks
<screen-x> cool
<shauno> finally ordered an ssd for my lappy.  stoked :D
<screen-x> shauno: which one?
<shauno> an owc one .. because they beat their firmware into playing well with the trim-less osx
<shauno> (and they bundle a handy kit to let me replace the dvd with a drive, so I don't have to give up my spindle)
<screen-x> sounds good
<screen-x> is that for a macbook pro?
<shauno> figure it makes more sense to get rid of the dvd, rather than give up 750Gb of storage
<shauno> yeah
<screen-x> yeah, I wish manufacturers would stop putting optical drives in.. they have done their time.
<screen-x> I didn't know you could replace the DVD drive in an MBP with another disk, thats a great idea.
<gord> optical drives are good for "normal" people
<gord> you can watch dvd's and games and music and stuff
<screen-x> gord: but thats what the tubes are for
<gord> good luck getting a good movie watching thing
<shauno> screen-x: there's a couple different companies that do them.  optibay's another that comes to mind
<shauno> I got an adaptor to replace where the dvd is now, and an external enclosure for the dvd
<shauno> so I can still use the dvd, it's just no longer internal.  which is fine, since I barely use it week-to-week, let alone day-to-day
<screen-x> yeah, in my thinkpad, I have a battery in the ultrabay most of the time
<shauno> that's one option I really wish apple did.  but apparently seams are the devil, or closely related to
<andylockran> that's kewl shauno
<andylockran> I just put a 120G OCZ drive in mine.
<andylockran> but took out my 350G standard
<andylockran> would have been good to know I could have replaced the dvd
<shauno> that's what I'm trying to avoid.  since this is my main machine, going from 750Gb to 120Gb would be crippling
<andylockran> I don't have that much stuff to be honest
<andylockran> Come into the office and connect to the network for files
<shauno> I'm a hoarder :/
<shauno> I'm glad it's all just data, else I'd be a genuine crazy cat lady
<BigRedS> yeah, I've a 200GB disk in this laptop, that represents approximately infinite space as far as I'm concerned
<shauno> 200 I could fill with sensible things, before I start moving onto my stash of music & such
<shauno> last time I looked my photos folder was around 73GB
<shauno> heh, 4th minecraft update in one day.  glad I'm stuck at work sitting this one out
<popey> heh
<shauno> dude's gotta learn to ignore the rabid masses a lil, and release when it's closer to ready
<oimon> anyone use numpy and scipy?
<screen-x> oimon: I used a few functions from scipy.stats, but haven't used either very much
<dogmatic69> anyone know if its possible to copy music direct to an iphone on ubuntu?
<dogmatic69> got it working so i can browse the folders
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I'm pretty sure rythmbox can do it
<dogmatic69> music is not in rhythmbox
<Azelphur> although one would ask why you have an iphone in the first place ;)
<dogmatic69> > android :)
<Azelphur> clearly confused, you are :p
<dogmatic69> hehe
<safiyyah> DJones, that worked. just go to .skype in home, and remove the .xml file
<safiyyah> DJones, thank you
<MichealH> popey, ping?
<BakedBean> On 11.04 how do I assign applications to particular workspaces on startup ?
<Azelphur> hmm, I'm running screen -d -m <command> and it doesn't seem to be launching the application. What am I doing wrong? :(
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<bigcalm> Anybody got symlinks working in samba shares?
<Azelphur> oh, it is launching it, it just randomly exits half way through the bash script for no apparent reason.
<Azelphur> \o/
<oimon> bigcalm: have you got follow symlinks =yes in your smbd.conf?
<bigcalm> No
<ubuntucork> Azelphur: by default ubuntu does not use bash but rather a *bash* compatable shell
<oimon> bigcalm: http://superuser.com/questions/128716/ubuntu-latest-samba-version-symlinks-no-longer-work-on-share-mounted-in-window
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: ah I'm starting to see what's going on, it's not loading the required env variables so the script is failing
<ubuntucork> Azelphur:  you need to install bash specifically to retest it, the version of the shell ubuntu uses is not 100% bash compatable
<Azelphur> yep, screen bash /usr/bin/mine saves the day :D
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: ty :p
<ubuntucork> Azelphur:  ahhh env variables...sheesh lol.  :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<ubuntucork> Still on 10.04 and counting down to 12.04 when Stability returns(crosses fingers, walks room the backwards while incanting the Lords prayer, and burning incense and dancing a jig)
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: I run a quad screen setup, I don't get stability anywhere. :(
<ubuntucork> 12.04 equals shiny new laptop with all the bells and whistles.  Well laptop is vague term...power station in a luggable form factor :P
<Azelphur> I have one of those
<ubuntucork> Azelphur: stop showing off hehehehe.....have one pc in storage, laptop is my main workhorse and its so old only a few keys still have logos on them
<Azelphur> power stations in a luggable form factors are awesome
<Azelphur> hehe, that's all I had too :D
 * Azelphur used to run off a P4 1.6ghz laptop that belonged to a school and had been decomissioned as beyond economical repair
<Azelphur> had busted in usb ports and scratches all over :D
<ubuntucork> And i wont trade it in for two years as it is working 100% perfectly both hard and software
<ubuntucork> no everything 100% working
<ubuntucork> It even convinced my gf to swithch from Win7 to lucid for playing her games on :-)  Oddly they run faster now!
<ging> what games are these, didnt think many ran on linux
<BigRedS> wine/xover-office sort of helps some of them
<ubuntucork> I am thinking for my replacement I want a quad core rig and dual drives, big screen, like the alienware rigs.  Save save...Save. sAve.....shi*****  Tax tax tax tax tax......
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: the alienware rigs are overpriced, you should custom build
<Azelphur> I just sold my old quad core rig a couple months ago :)
<ubuntucork> for her, mostly her facebook games, for me, counterstrike(i am not allowed to shoot the idiots i meet daily, oddly enough)
<ubuntucork> not a desktop, a laptop version Azelphur
<Azelphur> ah :)
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: what source or 1.6?
<ubuntucork> 1.6 more fun
<Azelphur> hehe oldschool
<Azelphur> I used to run a CS:S server, now I run some TF2 servers :)
<ubuntucork> yup i jump for joy 6 months *after* a LTS release, thats how old school I am :)
<ubuntucork> TF2???
<Azelphur> team fortress 2, made by the same people who make CS
<Azelphur> it's good stuff :D
<ubuntucork> Dont have time with www....wwwwww.....wwww....flog it.  the four letter swear word starting with "wo" ending in "rk"
<Azelphur> hehe
<bigcalm> popey: I hope Hayley don't mind my addiction spilling over: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/IMG_20110526_164526.jpg
<ubuntucork> bigcalm: lol!!
<Azelphur> ubuntucork: I run a pretty big gaming community, a lot of us are Ubuntu users / wine users :)
 * bigcalm likes wine ;)
<ubuntucork> ah cool....Sorry Im not a gaming geek, but I know lots are, and I can run almost anything in wine these days except dopey hardware stuff
<Azelphur> indeed, wine is awesome
<ubuntucork> I run internet exploder to test various sites.....
<Azelphur> I do all my gaming in Linux :)
<bigcalm> Still too early to drink though :(
<ubuntucork> different versions of the browser
<ubuntucork> cant do that on the real thing :P
<bigcalm> That said, 5.12pm!!
<ubuntucork> bigcalm: thats gone past beer o clock in my part of the world
 * Azelphur really needs to take a better picture of his gaming rig some time, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110511_172337.jpg
<Azelphur> that ones so dark
<Azelphur> and my case has a dead fan xD
<Azelphur> I also need to shorten that ridiculously long pip
<Azelphur> +e
<ubuntucork> I want something like a 16 core low power high GHZ rig, something like the new ARMS coming out, nice and quiet...no need for games here, well much.  A fast NVidia chip will do.  Just your average basic quick porn station basically but faster disk. more ram and no hassles with unity..oops sorry about the last one :P
<bigcalm> Azelphur: does the joggler get any use?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: not currenty, I've been so busy on other projects I havn't had time for it
<Azelphur> slowly starting to clear my schedule though :D
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I know that feeling :S
<ubuntucork> Azelphur:  we cal that ethnic cleansing round here ;-)
<Azelphur> atm I've been playing "how much can we overclock the 5870 without it breaking"
<czajkowski> ubuntucork: are you from Cork ?
<ubuntucork> start at middle management, and work your way to HR for bonus points :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I've got a 5870 running at 975Mhz (the "max" is 900Mhz, stock is 850)
<ubuntucork> czajkowski: Peoples Republic of Cork, yes.  Formerly one of the 26 counties under tyranical dublin control.  Now a free state :)
<czajkowski> ubuntucork: ah yes with an answer like that you are from Cork
<ubuntucork> www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<Azelphur> lol
<czajkowski> ubuntucork: do drop into ubuntu-ie some time
<ubuntucork> real website
<ubuntucork> czajkowski: I would only be a tourist
<ubuntucork> I live in the UK the last few years now :)
<czajkowski> as do I
<czajkowski> but from Castleconennell Co. Limerick
<ubuntucork> czajkowski: shhhh dont let them all know your from Limerick, you will scare them man!!!!
<ubuntucork> czajkowski:  :P
<czajkowski> usually a few others but not in here today
<davmor2> I know a limerick not sure it's suitable for this channel though
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 you behave! 
<ubuntucork> I got out in early 2008 before the banking crisis, as anybody with half a brain could see that house prices at 12-15 times earnings and 125% mortgages was not sustainable
<ubuntucork> czajkowski: I wll come in to ask them how  things are.  Cork( centre of known universe) has a great linux scene :)
<czajkowski> it has CLUG which is a ml to meet up to drink
<czajkowski> :)
<ubuntucork> sure what else do you want on a Thursday night in November?!
<davmor2> czajkowski: What?
<czajkowski> davmor2: Cork Linux User group
<czajkowski> there is ILUG and CLUG
<czajkowski> cork is special they have their own
<ubuntucork> davmor2: Cork Linux User Group, the hometown of Professor Boole, inventer of Boolean Algebra.   That's the Cork effect for yah! ;-)
<davmor2> czajkowski: No I meant the peering
<czajkowski> the limerick
<czajkowski> I pre empted you
<shauno> we used to have a glug, but it ran out of steam :(
<ubuntucork> lol shauno
<ubuntucork> shauno, ye were all too busy watching the seoiges :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: lots of people talking about limericks I just wanted to join in :P
<davmor2> you should be flattered :D
<ubuntucork> I miss Zig and Zag Story time on Friday afternoons.  No reason to skulk off early now :(
<ubuntucork> oops a little ot here ;-)
<ubuntucork> BTW drupal needs documentation and user guides....its rubbish right now without them.   Wordpress is the benchmark for docs right now.  Does a great job!  just my 2c (minus bertie biscuit fund)
<ubuntucork> um anyone see me am I connected?
<MartijnVdS> yes, we see you
<shauno> trying to decide if I'm really too lazy to get up & go nap.  doesn't make for thrilling convo :)
<ubuser> can someone help me fix my pc, i tried installing grub2, now its giving me error 15
<ubuser> is there a way around this?
<ubuser> please help
<MartijnVdS> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<ubuser> please
<ubuser> i am on a different harddrive
<MartijnVdS> !grub2 | ubuser
<lubotu3> ubuser: GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<brobostigon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 inthe error section on that pae it gives instrcutions,
<ubuser> i cannot get passed the boot screen
<ubuser> so is there a cd?
<brobostigon> ubuser: you will need a live ubuntu media,yes.
<ubuser> to reload....?
<HazRPG> hmm, seems skype doesn't work anymore :S
<brobostigon> ubuser: to reinstall grub2, according to the instcutions i pointed to, yes.
<brobostigon> ubuser: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling%20from%20LiveCD
<ubuser> u gave 14 links thx so much
<HazRPG> was working last night... even tried restarting
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: skype is having a bad day
<HazRPG> I don't recall seeing skype under the update list I had
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20066430-17.html
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm?
<brobostigon> ubuser: thts page, is instructions.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh
<ubuser> ty sorry bad day
<brobostigon> ubuser: dont worry, i understand.
<ubuser> okay, i got a 5.1 cd?
<brobostigon> 5.10 ?
<ubuser> yea...
<ubuser> i got 10.04 on my pc
<brobostigon> ubuser: it needs to be from a ubuntu version, that uses grub2.
<ubuser> but its not running right now, and the video flickers
<MartijnVdS> (you'll need a more recent CD, version 9.10 or newer)
<ubuser> i was trying to add a command to the grub thing really, radeon.new-pll=0 they said would fix it
<ubuser> i dont want grub
<ubuser> i want my pc
<ubuser> that blows. yay.
<MartijnVdS> ubuser: grub is the first program that loads on your computer, which then loads Ubuntu
<brobostigon> ubuser: grub is ubuntu's boot manager, you need grubto bootubuntu.
<MartijnVdS> (or Windows, or something else)
<ubuser> nothing loads on mine.
<MartijnVdS> ubuser: Try following the troubleshooting advice on the pages the bot sent you
<ubuser> i dont have any cd's
<brobostigon> ubuser: can you make someother live media?
<ubuser> im not downloading another gig to fix it
<ubuser> ill throw the shit in the street
<MartijnVdS> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<MartijnVdS> !volunteers
<lubotu3> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<ubuser> !gay
<ubuser> its awesome upgrading from 5.1
<ubuser> looks like thats my options/.
<ubuser> i tried installing 11.04, 10.04 9.04 all the minis
<ubuser> and finally, after i update to 8.04 or w/e i get my video working
<ubuser> but i have no sound, and the guy tells me to update
<ubuser> and i did, now i have no computer
<ubuser> i couldnt care less about what most of the douches think
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, jono, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<popey> ubuser: enough.
<ubuser> 4 days of this
<brobostigon> we are trying to help, and point you at how to fix it. abd gets things working again.
<Daviey> ubuser, I can see you are clearly frustrated, but this isn't the best approach to get help.
<ubuser> man i got booted from all the other rooms, someone give me advice instead of a bunch of links
<ubuser> im not computer literate
<ubuser> there isnt a way to just get around grub?
<ubuser> i mean i got 2 harddrives, but the other one isnt showing up
<brobostigon> ubuser: we have given you advice, we having given you exact instructions and ways, of fixing your issue.
<ubuser> i missed it, i tried copying the link
<ubuser> i'll type it this time
<brobostigon> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling%20from%20LiveCD
<brobostigon> now, any live media will work about 9.10, as MartijnVdS said.
<brobostigon> above*
<ubuser> lmao, ive read those.
<brobostigon> ubuser: it tellsyou exactlyhow to fix it.
<ubuser> no
<ubuser> if someone was telling me, they would say grab teh iso
<ubuser> that doesnt say anything
<brobostigon> ubuser: if you dont understand it, as us, forabout bits you dont understand.
<brobostigon> sk us*
<brobostigon> ask us*
<ubuser> understand what? u sent me to like and ad webpage
<brobostigon> ubuser: one page, the one i sent you, is all you need.
<ubuser> yepp
<ubuser> so r u telling me to download teh iso?
<brobostigon> ubuser: make  yourself alive media of somekind, weather livecd or liveusb or otherwise.
<ubuser> sudo addappgrub = fail.
<ubuser> okay ill try
<ubuser> brb
<brobostigon> i have to be going soon, can someone take over please.
<JGJones> OK...
<JGJones> transmission is taking up 99% CPU even though it's in a zombie state...
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: use ps fax to check what its parent process is
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: then kill that
<MartijnVdS> (that should re-parent the zombie to init, which will reap it)
<JGJones> it appears to be gnome-session
<JGJones> yup it's gnome-session
<JGJones> whose parent is then gdm-binary
<JGJones> so in short...kill GUI to kill transmission
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: you can also see what's keeping it going
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: because eating 100% sounds like not being zombie
<MartijnVdS> but a reboot should do it :P
<JGJones> Wayhey, it takes me back to my Windows days.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: logout/login should be enough though
<JGJones> "yup a reboot'll fix that"
 * MartijnVdS had to reboot, because of a broken X driver :(
<MartijnVdS> X worked fine.. mouse cursor was OK
<MartijnVdS> but everything was black on black...
<JGJones> nah, something up with transmission...I've only just noticed that it's doing this everytime I reboot so I'll remove it from start up.
<JGJones> The only thing it's doing is just seeding backtrack
<MartijnVdS> (so it feels very HHGTTG: "Every time I press one of these black controls, labelled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up black to let me know I've done it.")
<JGJones> What's wrong with that?
<JGJones> Black is all the rage these day isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: yes, but I prefer some contrast on my screen
<davmor2> czajkowski: quiet spell so prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: *burp*
<davmor2> czajkowski: you're such a charming young lady :D
<czajkowski> hey at least you admit I'd a lady
<czajkowski> *I'm
<AlanBell> evening all
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I've added my name to the Scifi exhibit doodle list thingy :)
<MartijnVdS> Wanted to see that anyway.. :)
<popey> o/
<MartijnVdS> Oh no, Alan Invasion :)
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: that happened a *long* time ago :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: yes, but sometimes it's more obvious :)
<gord> just make sure you don't get abducted by alans, no one will believe you
<MartijnVdS> gord: Good thing I'm not a chicken then
<popey> Team meeting about to start in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<JGJones_> ok...transmission now have no parent processes at all, and is in a zombie state and is still chewing up 100% CPU and still can't be killed
<JGJones_> even trying sudo kill -9 processID doesn't kill it off completely
<MartijnVdS> JGJones_: cool..
<MartijnVdS> JGJones_: do you have NFS?
<MartijnVdS> or some other network file system
<MartijnVdS> it might be waiting on that
<JGJones_> it's a zombie that can't be killed. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen in The Walking Dead...
<MartijnVdS> Doing a quick Google search, one reason often given is that the
<MartijnVdS> process has done an uninterruptable system call (usually related to
<MartijnVdS> hardware). It's waiting for the call to return but, for whatever
<MartijnVdS> reason, it doesn't. Therefore controll is never returned to the
<MartijnVdS> process to receive the signal.
<MartijnVdS> </forum-post>
<JGJones_> no NFS
<MartijnVdS> JGJones_: strace -p ?
<MartijnVdS> (sudo strace -p pid_of_process)
<JGJones_> ta...will try that in a bit, I'm needed downstairs atm.
<MartijnVdS>  good luck
 * MartijnVdS is off to bed (yay time zones :))
<JGJones_> ta for help and nighty night
<gneel> I have a weird NFS problem
<gneel> I mount a couple of shares from my NAS, in fstab.
<gneel> I can write to them as my normal user, but not using 'sudo'
<gneel> Anyone have any ideas?
<oimon> gneel: what are the mount options?
<gneel> rw,soft,intr
<oimon> http://www.centos.org/docs/4/4.5/Security_Guide/s2-server-nfs-noroot.html
<oimon> this explains the problem i believe
<gneel> oimon: thanks, I'll take a look at that
<SamJ190494> is there any way i can force my laptops fans to run faster??
<gneel> Tried google, and didn't have the right fu
<oimon> gneel: it's not recommended though
<BigRedS> does ubuntu have a /etc/mysql/debian.cnf?
<oimon> because any user can boot off a live cd, gain root access and edit files on your nfs
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, I'm on a ubuntu. yes it does
<oimon> BigRedS: talking to yourself again:?
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah :)
<gneel> oimon: I've got an encrypted home, but I guess that wouldn't help in that situation
<gneel> Thanks for the link anyway.
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 9th June 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Libraries,SciFi and Geeknicks! http://doodle.com/53dpqtd6qgbvdpmp
<oimon> i thought it was quiet in here
<ubuser> i have finally got my computer running it is an older version of ubuntu
<ubuser> i have tried burning the iso's for better version but they freeze when im installing
<hamitron> what sort of computer is it?
<ubuser> so, i am trying to figure out is there a way to check to see if ur drivers are good on ubuntu
<ubuser> and i am having trouble with sound
<ikonia> ubuser: what was the point of joining #ubuntu-ops making a pointless comment and exiting ?
<ubuser> i got java and flash working in mozilla, finally
<ubuser> i got banned from ubuntu
<ikonia> ahhh, so you want support in here as you got banned
<ubuser> idleones banned me
<ikonia> so if you rejoin #ubuntu-ops we can try to resolve that
<ubuser> he told me it wasnt for support
<ikonia> I doubt #ubuntu-uk will support you as you got banned
<ikonia> #ubuntu is for support,
<ubuser> i got banned
<ikonia> if you join #ubuntu-ops we can try to resolve you're ban and get you back into #ubuntu
<ubuser> can anyone help me with my sound?
<ikonia> that seems bette to me, as a banned american user in #ubuntu-uk won't get much support
<ubuser> i have followed the directions given to me in that chatroom and they were all fails
<ubuser> better than that room
<ikonia> ubuser: I'll ask you one more time then leave you to the silence you'll get in here
<ikonia> ubuser: if you join #ubuntu-ops again we can try to resolve the ban you have in #ubuntu and get you back in #ubuntu for support
<hamitron> why would he get silence? :/
<bigcalm> How do you find out which users have cronjobs?
<mgdm> bigcalm: ls /var/spool/cron
<mgdm> bigcalm: might be /var/spool/cron/crontabs, actually
<mgdm> ah yes, the latter
<bigcalm> Depends upon the system
<bigcalm> /var/spool/cron was right for this one
<bigcalm> Cheers, mgdm
<mgdm> nae bother
<bigcalm> I need to sort a sub-array within an array based upon a deep field
<bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/613507/
<mgdm> usort()?
<bigcalm> For some reason those are out of date order
<mgdm> I did something similar the other day
<bigcalm> Ta, I'll take a look
<mgdm> you write a function that returns -1, 0, or 1 based on two array values
<mgdm> if you're on PHP 5.3 you can use a closure ;)
<bigcalm> The CakePHP 1.1 project won't run on 5.3
<mgdm> O_O
<bigcalm> <?php function cmp($a, $b) { return strcmp($a["id"], $b["id"]); } usort($client['Payment'], "cmp"); ?>
<bigcalm> Perfect
<bigcalm> Yeah, CakePHP v1.1 is known not to run on PHP 5.3
<bigcalm> It stops me from updating my dev server
<mgdm> CodeIgniter 2.0 throws some E_STRICT warnings on 5.3
<mgdm> I should fix them and send a pull request
<bigcalm> SLEEP!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-27
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Future LoCo Team Portal Plans - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/26/future-loco-team-portal-plans/
<Azelphur> Anyone know if it's possible to do live statistics in libreoffice?
<kernelcode> Has anyone had problems with Nvidia notebook video cars recently? I'm not even sure if the updater updates proprietary drivers, but I've been having some issues which seem to have appeared out of the blue
<kernelcode> *cards
<hamitron> kernelcode: what types?
<hamitron> or type
<hamitron> :)
<kernelcode> I haven't managed to nail it down to a specific scenario, but basically compiz seems to consume 100%+ CPU and the system becomes unusable
<kernelcode> Seems like it might be related to the screensaver (I have GLMatrix or whatever it's called)
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<shauno> hm, this could be fun.  plugged a box in and fired it up before I went to work.  arrived to discover I used the wrong ethernet port, and it hasn't been assigned any v4
<MartijnVdS> shauno: time to fix it tonight :)
<shauno> pft, too easy.  gonna find a v6 resolver and see if I can carry on regardless
<MartijnVdS> v6 \o/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also.. google has public v4 resolvers
<shauno> if I had a v4 route I'd be using my isps :)
<shauno> it's picked my router up as an RA, but I can't add it properly without running the stupid gui thing locally
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can ssh using the fe80:: address, then fix it from there
 * DJones really must be more awake in the morning, just reading about the the remake of Total Recall to star Colin Farrell as Douglas Quaid and though they were talking about Colin Firth :)
<shauno> found it easy enough; just asked arp on my laptop.  but can't make any changes on the router from here :/
<MartijnVdS> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO/x811.html
<shauno> 6 is working fine.  it's just a bit broken because that's all I've got :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: well, v6 gets you google and youtube
<MartijnVdS> and facebook
<MartijnVdS> what more do you need ;)
<MartijnVdS> oh and some Dutch news websites
<MartijnVdS> and freenode
<shauno> it's being really grumpy trying to reach security.debian.org :/
<MooDoo> hello
<JGJones> Greetings
<czajkowski> Aloha
<shauno> hm, not just grumpy .. it simply never gets there
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<MooDoo> shauno: morning
<shauno> howdy
<czajkowski> I do really like the NHS system over here
<JGJones_> where?
<DJones> czajkowski: Is it not the same in Ireland
<gord> there?
<czajkowski> DJones: gods no
<DJones> On the stairs?
<czajkowski> JGJones_: Aldershot
<czajkowski> dearg gods DJones and JGJones_ talk about confusing nicks to see one after another
<czajkowski> danfish: ping
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nice that she phoned you back :)
 * DJones considers nicking to DGJones to confuse czajkowski even more
<JGJones_> heh
<czajkowski> DJones: stop hanging around with MooDoo and Davmo2, clearly leading you astray in the tormenting of me
<JGJones_> I hereby claim that I had my nick first!
<Mez> czajkowski: what's made you say that you like the NHS system?
<AlanBell> I declare it to be breakfast time
<JGJones_> had it since November 1977
<czajkowski> the excellent gp I've had the aranging of an urgent MRI
<czajkowski> the phoning me up with the result to save me going in
<DJones> JGJones_: I can see you've had it registered for longer than I've had dgjones registered
<czajkowski> AlanBell: eggs on toast
<czajkowski> or no eggs still
<JGJones_> you should change it to DGJones...although I'll start thinking you're my brother
<DJones> :)
<kazade> good morning all
<AlanBell> czajkowski: we are reduced to buying shop eggs
<czajkowski> oh my
<oimon> czajkowski: that doesn't sound like my experience of NHS...baby has a fever, nurse at the edoctor's surgery on phone says don't bother us, it's probably teething, turns out to be a bad stomach bug. same story for my wife wen they tried diagnosnig something else down the phone that was completely incorrect
<DJones> AlanBell: Why no home laid eggs?
<czajkowski> thing it depends on the gp
<oimon> then when you get an appointment it's over 2 months away
<kazade> oimon, move surgery :p
<oimon> kazade: we are going through that process.
<czajkowski> I've also come from working in hospitals while I was in college, so I do know the level of presure they are under
<kazade> I've had some amazing experiences with the NHS, they've saved my life in the past
<kazade> of course, you do get some crap GPs
<czajkowski> I think compared to most of EU NHS by far is excellent
<kazade> I've figured out which ones are the best ones around here :)
<AlanBell> DJones: chickens have gone all menopausal or something
<czajkowski> yeah there are gonna be hiccups from time to time
<oimon> kazade: it's not even the GPs i have problems with, it's the people they put in the way of letting you see them
<czajkowski> but to be honest you'll find that in any area
<czajkowski> oimon: thats hardly an nhs problem
<czajkowski> thats a hiring issue
<czajkowski> and people applying
<AlanBell> however I do have eggs and they need using up and I found some bread in the freezer, so eggs on toast is on the way
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: maybe they're distraught by the dead chicken?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it stopped well before that]
<oimon> it's a structural/mamangement issue though.
<czajkowski> oimon: tbh I wouldnt like working as a receptionist in a gp surgery, you're gonna get yelled at no matter what
<oimon> the procedures they put in place are ridiculous
<oimon> the ones in my surgery gossip terribly in the open about people
<kazade> oimon, I've never been to a doctor's surgery where the receptionists DONT gossip openly
<oimon> :(
<shauno> czajkowski: mrs shauno actually ended up in ER in limerick recently .. she was actually pretty impressed by the whole process
 * AlanBell posted to a redhat list https://www.redhat.com/archives/virt-tools-list/2011-May/msg00083.html
<gord> my weather indicator has given up entirely its been cloud with a ? for days
<gord> although that is how i would mostly describe uk weather...
<AlanBell> fried or poached I wonder
<czajkowski> shauno: my old hosiptal
<czajkowski> I worked there for 4 years
<czajkowski> 2 when in college and 2 when I finished working in the laboratory doing their documentation
<czajkowski> AlanBell: fried egg on toast
<czajkowski> runny egg
<shauno> she managed to put 3 breaks in one arm.  they opened it up and stuffed some metal in there.  for less than an ambulance woulda cost her in the states
<AlanBell> fried it is then
 * oimon notices that ubuntu 9.10 is no longer supported
<AlanBell> the koala is dead
<MartijnVdS> :(
<MartijnVdS> History marches on
<DJones> Shouldn't it be The Koala is dead, long live the Narwhall
<oimon> the lynx will outlive the narwhal :P
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o biggie calms
<bigcalm> I do what I can
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (I'm assuming that's your rapper alter ego)
<AlanBell> nom
<bigcalm> Om
<diplo> Any one tried build the Sync App syncany recently with success ?
<diplo> Have a few issues when trying to buil with ant
<davmor2> morning all
<AlanBell> top tip, crush a dried chilli and sprinkle over fried eggs for a lovely breakfast treat
<davmor2> AlanBell: Weirdo ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod just cause you deserve it :P
<oimon> i wonder if it hurts chickens to lay eggs
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ask them :)
<oimon> they told me to cluck off
<|Dreams|> ok my /home folder was encrypted with ubuntu now i went to install fedora 15 and it says it cannot access ICE file so i cant access my home partition is there anyway around this without wiping all my home
<MartijnVdS> |Dreams|: Did you write down the key for your partition? (Ubuntu notified you about it after your first login)
<|Dreams|> i saved it i think
<|Dreams|> but i think i saved it in my home partition lmao
<|Dreams|> oops
<MartijnVdS> |Dreams|: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory#Recovering Your Mount Passphrase
<|Dreams|> thanks will take a look
<oimon> anyone used miro? what's good about it?
<popey> i have in the past
<popey> nice if you want to centralise where/how you get your video/audio stuff
<popey> like people do with itunes
<oimon> they just released a new version
<bigcalm> popey: see the birthday card I did for Hayley?
<popey> yeah, big update
<popey> yes bigcalm âº
 * bigcalm hopes tomorrow goes well
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Do you have any reason to assume it won't? :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigonman
<brobostigon> good morning MartijnVdS o/
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I guess not. Just want it to be a good day for her
<Laney> good morning
<oimon> been using chromium as my main browser 10hrs a day for a couple of weeks now, still not sure if it's for me yet
<oimon> Laney: congrats on your debian account :D
<Laney> \o
<oimon> just installed miro4 ..looking a lot like itunes
<popey> yeah, it's pretty sweet
<MooDoo> i use miro :)
<oimon> i quite like the handling of video files
<davmor2> MooDoo: boyacka me snizzly diddly or something like that,  'Ow am ya me owld mukka
<Laney> I see they showcase the mac interface
<oimon> i wonder why it isn't mentioned more on linux
<MooDoo> davmor2: bang tidy matey....
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think these young uns can keep their gibberish
<MooDoo> davmor2: i meant ubuntu what's all that about?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: eeeeeeeeeeek
<davmor2> MooDoo: so it started off in 2004 when a man with a lot of money thought I know I'll do something cool......stabs MooDoo
<shauno> you need a lot of money to stab MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> shauno: nah i'm cheap
<shauno> not quite sure how to reply to that
<gord> ... stoopid steam sales, they always get me
<diplo> Wats on gord ? Not booted my PC for a few weeks
<gord> farcry 1 + 2, not great games but cheep
<gord> Â£3 for both
<diplo> Ooooh
<diplo> Might have to  boot PC up when I get home
<diplo> :D
<gord> offer will be off by 6pm btw
<diplo> :(
<gord> store.steampowered.com :)
<gord> you don't need to be home
<diplo> ah yes
<diplo> ta :)
<oimon> gord: work ok on wine?
<gord> oimon, http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=13613 - http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14238
<gord> kinda?
<popey> you're a bad man
 * popey opens steam
<oimon> are they big downloads?
<oimon> thinking fc2
<shauno> freedom haters :/
<bigcalm> And happy to be
<gord> farcry 1 should be about cd sized, 2 should be dvd sized
<diplo> Cheers gord  :)
<diplo> Purchased :)
<popey> hmm, cant get steam connected via proxy
<bigcalm> Watching the videos for Farcry 2
<oimon> however wine+intel graphics...i should proably pass
<gord> intel graphics + games, you should probably pass ;)
<popey> far cry complete $7.49
<popey> silly steam showing me prices in USD
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Â£3.74
<kazade> I've thus far never bought anything on Steam, much prefer Gog.com :)
<diplo> Never tried gog
<kazade> diplo, you are missing out :)
<bigcalm> Expendables is on GoG
<bigcalm> And Postal 2
<diplo> Will take a look now, not doing much work
<kazade> no DRM, ultra cheap and largely Wine friendly
<diplo> :D
<kazade> I copy all the installers to U1 so that I always have a backup, even if they go under or something
 * oimon has a health and safety meeting at 11am ...kill me now please
<gord> gog is great, you get the coolest extras. proper nice pdf manuals - wallpapers, soundtracks, all just thrown in for a great price
 * kazade notices Rayman Forever has just been added on Gog
 * oimon wonders if gord should do voiceovers
<kazade> oimon, if we killed you now, it would probs violate Health + Safety ;)
<oimon> kazade: nah, it's more about box ticking than actualh health or safety
<oimon> our lift is a deathtrap but nobody cares
<oimon> and our building appears to be made from  asbestos
 * davmor2 cocks shotgun places it against oimon head and pulls the trigger.......click.......Damn you need shells for these things on tv they shoot forever
<bigcalm> Finaly, the upgrade to 30mb bb is being put to good use ;)
<oimon> on tv you can dodge bullets
<gord> pretty sure i can dodge bullets in real life, doesn't look that hard
<oimon> after the gun is fired?
<oimon> bullet time
<gord> sure, i mean, you just kinda wave about. easy
<oimon> you can even dodge explosions it seems
<oimon> bomb explodes, then yo get time to dive behind a car
 * popey wonders if the old gollup games are on gog.com
<oimon> rather than shrapnel embedded in your skull at 500mph
<davmor2> gord, oimon: Why dodge them on tv you can get shot in the eye and the bullet crumples all you need is an outfit with a red cape
<oimon> hmm late for meeting lol
<gord> i should so start wearing capes. capes are awesome
<gord> and a cane
<popey> *gollop
<DJones> capes & a cane? Isn't that the phantom of the opera?
<gord> i heartily recommend http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/syberia :) fun adventure game about clockwork machines and a train riding through northern Russia - played it through wine back in the day
<kazade> it's a good idea to follow @gogcom on Twitter so you can catch the amazing offers they have on
<kazade> Got "The Witcher" for $4.99 the other day
<kazade> still haven't played it, the download is about 9G (!)
<kazade> looks awesome though
<popey> nothing leaping out at me on gog
<davmor2> popey: in that case you need to put you 3d glasses on
<kazade> In my account I've got: Myst, Interstate '76, Empire Earth, The Witcher, Duke Nukem 3D, Duke Nukem Manhatten Project and Unreal Tournament (also a bunch of freebies I've never played)
<shauno> gotta admit I didn't find gog too interesting either.  especially not at the same prices I bought them for the first time around
<gord> gog has baldurs gate 2....
<gord> whats wrong with you people =\
<davmor2> kazade: does myst work under wine?
<davmor2> gord: +1 popey has no taste in games though :D
<kazade> davmor2, I *think* that Gog have wrapped it with DosBox, I know I had it working fine on Ubuntu when I was playing it a few months back
<gord> the only reason i don't own baldurs gate 2 on gog is because i actually need to get work one
<gord> *done
 * kazade spots Earthworm Jim 1+2 (!)
<kazade> Must. Not. Spend. Money.
<kazade> Farcry is on there, but much more than on Steam $9.99
<kazade> although, DRM free of course ;)
<davmor2> popey: Do you not see the alone in the dark quadillogy
<kazade> gah, who mentioned gog.com! I'm gonna end up spending money!
<kazade> oh, it was me..
<popey> oooo
 * kazade thinks that Gog.com should open up their service to game developers for publishing new games
<gord> like they did with witcher 2?
<kazade> the Witcher 2 is by the same people that run Gog.com
<kazade> CDProjekt
<kazade> I think
<gord> ah ok
<gord> it would be weird to have lots of new games on good old games dot com
<kazade> yeah, they need gng.com ;)
<kazade> the whole system they have there is great though
<kazade> I did tweet them and ask if they would consider opening it up to indies to publish their games, they said they might do in future, but at the moment they have enough on their plate :)
<davmor2> popey, gord: They got Vampire The Masquerade - Redemption on gog.com I loved that game played it for months
<gord> yeah thats a wonderful game, crashy.. really really crashy. but wonderful
<davmor2> wow another world man I feel this warm nostalgic feeling must play absolute 80's to complete the feeling :D
<popey> http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/27/rumor-apple-testing-macbook-air-with-a5-processor/
 * popey imagines that running Ubuntu
<gord> i can't imagine apple switching to arm, unless they went for a fully iOS macbook or something
<gord> would be cool to get a full laptop with arm though
<shauno> it's an odd idea; almost makes sense on the Air, makes little sense anywhere else.  but I've a friend who claimed that was the plan all along, and now feels vindicated
<seeker> shauno: did your friend predict the Air, or the whole of the apple line?
<Laney> vindicated because apple are rumoured to have made a test machine?!
<Laney> hah
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like a perfect time to start disallowing "normal" apps and work everything into their appstore model
<shauno> seeker: he's been claiming arm is next ever since they went that way for the ios platform
<seeker> Next what though?
<seeker> You aren't answering the question :P
<shauno> as he'd have it, replacing intel
<seeker> No reason to feel vindicated then
<shauno> yet :o)
<seeker> I predict ubuntu will be installed on every computer in the world! Oh, look, one person is trying it out, I feel so vindicated :P
<seeker> There will always be a market for high end processors, which I don't think ARM are in a position to deliver
<shauno> that was pretty much people's response when rumors of apple intel first came out.  and when rumours of the iphone first came out
<Twinkletoes> In 8.04, I was able to use the Windows Xming client with plink, and start "gnome-session" to get a full desktop.  the same doesn't work for 10.04+.  Has anything changed?
<seeker> Intel being in a desktop machine? IMPOSSIBLE! Oh...wait
<seeker> Desktop processors are designed to run on ~100w of power
<seeker> ARMs processors are designed to run on milliwatts
<seeker> There is a big difference
<Laney> I really don't understand the whole ARM/Linaro situation
<Laney> people are talking about running servers on ARM chips and not needing cooling
<shauno> there is.  and being that apple sell a *lot* more laptops than desktops, it's not an insignificant difference
<Laney> so I wouldn't say they are exclusively for low end systems
<Laney> maybe currently they don't stack up, but certainly not in the future
<seeker> shauno: Some people want performance laptops too. ARM don't have any products that can reasonably compete with an i7 @ 2.2 GHz
<shauno> I just think it's pretty short-sighted to write it off just yet
<Neoti> any one want to go in to business with me selling voip, onsite PBX's and hosted phone solutions ?
<seeker> Im not saying that it will never happen. But ARM don't have any products announced that can fill that sort of Market. And it will take 3 or 4 years from them announcing the IP before any chips start to appear.
<seeker> And Intel is looking to move towards ARM level stuff - the Atom will be on 14nm by 2014
<shauno> apple apparently had osx running on x86 since before 10.0.  and they do have the core of the OS running on arm today in ios. I don't think any of this is about things we'll see in 12 months
<shauno> when you throw in things like them buying PA Semi 3 years ago, the chip company that was started by the guy that designed the Alpha procs .. they're certainly up to something
<seeker> Having an ARM binary is different from ARM having IP that can compete with Intel in anything but the low end Market
<seeker> Yeah, they are making the A4 and A5 :P
<shauno> they're still samsung cores
<shauno> that's what people thought PA Semi was being bought for, but it hasn't shown up yet
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah :)
<seeker> shauno: Wikipedia seems to think apple designed it
<BigRedS> ooh, not sure how that happened
<seeker> shauno: It isn't a standard samsung core that apple just bought, or loads of people would have used the same
<seeker> Chip
<shauno> the designs are Intrisity, not PA Semi.  PA have literally just disappeared
<seeker> On 11 June 2008, during the annual Worldwide Developer's Conference, Apple CEO Steve Jobs said that the acquisition was meant to add the talent of P. A. Semi's engineers to Apple's workforce and help them build custom chips for the iPod, iPhone, and other future mobile devices.
<shauno> right.  a lot of noise when they were purchased.  but they haven't shown up in any products yet
<seeker> No, read it again
<seeker> It is valid for a company to purchase another company to obtain the engineers that work there
<seeker> Rather than to actually use their products
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Is there a way to trace a LAN IP
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what do you mean?
<BigRedS> what do you mean by 'trace3'?
<kaushal> I get conflict on a particular IP
<BigRedS> er, trace
<BigRedS> oh, so you want to find which machine owns an IP?
<kaushal> yes
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: if you have a managed switch, you can log in and ask it where it thinks the mac-address that has that IP is
<MartijnVdS> but I think you'll have to use arp (to check which mac address has the IP you want, then check all your devices)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: i did it
<kaushal> arp -d conflictIP and shorewall drop conflictIP
<kaushal> still I am able to ping that conflict IP
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: yes.. just because your local firewall ignores the conflicting IP, doesn't mean the device doesn't have it anymore
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: you'll have to look at all devices in your network, (physically) find the conflicting machine,  then turn it off/fix it
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: its very tedious
<kaushal> right ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: depends on the size of your network
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it's harder to check 100 devices than 3 :)
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: but when you have 100 devices on a LAN, you'd better have managed switches (which can usually tell you where the conflict is, and disable ports on request)
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> ok
<oimon> i wonder what sort of person buys duke nukem forever
<MartijnVdS> oimon: gamers.
<oimon> looks a bit meh
<davmor2> oimon: it always did, it's only ever been about the mad game play
<oimon> i thought it was about the infamy of never being released :)
<davmor2> oimon: no
<davmor2> oimon: that was just hype
<shauno> not sure I'd write that off as just hype.  I mean, the game was announced in what, 96? 97?
 * DJones remembers the original 2D Duke Nukem
<davmor2> shauno: it was tongue in cheek
<mrwarmth> is this the "real" thing though? When I seen it announced I figured some company had bought the name from 3D realms and rushed out a generic duke game with that title.
<shauno> I doubt it's even vaguely related, no
<shauno> there market's flooded with generic shooters.  buying a franchise that's 10 years cold has to be a fantastic way to prop up another without requiring any real merit
<mrwarmth> it does look that way, yes
<shauno> (if it's actually quakeworld compatible as originally promised, I'll eat the socks I'm wearing)
<mrwarmth> It would be great if 3D realms released the source for the one they were actually working for
<mrwarmth> *on
<shauno> I think it'd be funny if they actually released it on the quake2 engine, and just played like they'd been working on it the whole time
<mrwarmth> where did they end up, on the unreal engine?
<Twinkletoes> how do I change the screen resolution in 11.04?  There doesn't appear to be any options in System Admin or Preferences
<mrwarmth> Twinkletoes, can you run gnome-display-properties form the run menu or terminal? I think it's listed in the launcher as display settings but I'm not at my Ubuntu machine atm.
<Twinkletoes> mrwarmth: IThis seems to be the issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/652929
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 652929 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "maverick gnome-settings-daemon doesn't start (dup-of: 649809)" [Low,New]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 649809 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Natty) "the session settings manager can try starting before the login screen one exits" [Medium,In progress]
<oimon> i have a machine with multiple versions of python installed. is there an alternative to doing "export PYTHONPATH=/usr/lib/python2.6/:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/" before running python2.6 so that it uses the modules from /usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/ ?
 * AlanBell takes delivery of a large parcel
<shauno> argh.  excel needs a 'stop trying to be clever' tickbox :(
<shauno> just got an order returned because excel had decided all the part numbers were incremental
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski 
<Twinkletoes> Can fstab be used to mount a directory onto another directory?
<bigcalm> Twinkletoes: would a symbolic link be better?
<shauno> I believe so, you'd just put bind in the options
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: that's my question
<czajkowski> AlanBell: *hugs*
<bigcalm> ln -s source_dir target_dir
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: so that's better then using fstab and the bind option?
<bigcalm> If it's within the same filesystem, I'm not sure what advantage you'd get from putting it in fstab
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: I've just moved a huge directory to a different disk
<Twinkletoes> bigcalm: Sounds like symlink is going to be easier anyway
<bigcalm> As long as the other harddisk has been mounted before you try to access the symlink, it'll do what you want
 * AlanBell installs a kubuntu CD
<Pendulum> AlanBell: you didn't steal it from the chickens, did you?
<AlanBell> Pendulum: I didn't install it in a computer :)
<oimon> any python dudes here see my question up there ^^?
<AlanBell> now, will their old 10.10 CD still boot I wonder
<AlanBell> it gets as far as the boot menu
<AlanBell> bit of a crack in the edge, don't think it is going to work
<AlanBell> I did wash most of the poop off before putting it in my laptop
<oimon> since 4.0 i haven't managed more than 1 day in succession on kde
<AlanBell> it doesn't fully boot
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Joining the Bazaar - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4435
<BigRedS> oimon: It's not *that* bad, surely?
<BigRedS> just don't log out :)
<BigRedS> most of the problems I had were it forgetting everything on logout, and having to reconfigure things like workspaces and keyboard shortcuts
<oimon> BigRedS: it's not bad, bad, just that gnome2+docky really suits my way of working nowadays...i was happy with kde3.5 but i've moved on
<BigRedS> Haha, I was never really happy with kde3 either. I think I've just got really low standards when it comes to DEs
<BigRedS> actually, no. All of them really irritate me, but to about the same level
<BigRedS> so there's nothing much to gain from using any one over the other
<oimon> what i have now is fantastic
<oimon> interesting to see if it will still be possible to implement with 12.04
<TheAshMan> :tabn
<BigRedS> oimon: docky's the osx-style launcher isn't it?
<oimon> BigRedS: maybe - i don't use OSX. i have > 50 windows open at any time on virtual desktops , so gnome-panel size reduces to a dot for each app - not very useful
<oimon> unity launcher doesn't work well either for that setup :(
<BigRedS> Ah, nor do I. I meant the tall thing at the middle bottom of the screen
<BigRedS> where 'tall' is about an inch tall
<BigRedS> Ach, I just googled it and it is what I was thinking it was. I've no idea how it works though, I've only seen screenshots
<oimon> it is an app launcher + window chooser combined.
<oimon> except that you can also add funtionality, e.g. pidgin shows unread messages, banshee icon allows right-click and play/pause etc.
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> that sounds a bit handy
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/p/vvs/
<oimon> the dots under the icons show apps that are open, and if there are multiple windows of the same type, you can click right mouse and see the window names
<BigRedS> oooh
<oimon> also u don't then have to worry which virtual desktop your liferea reader is on etc
<oimon> it switches for you and work continues
<oimon> which is sort of what unity is intended to do, but not quite there yet in terms of functionality i feel
<BigRedS> I'm a bit tempted to try that, except for the fact that I'm completely conditioned into not using the taskbar
<oimon> i didn't see the point on my laptop cos i only regularly use 4 windows or so, but at work i leave a huge amount of stuff running for weeks, and it's crucial for my workflow
<BigRedS> ah, yeah. Most of my issue is managing screen, er, screens
<shauno> after 45 minutes of trying to reach someone on the phone, I have a scene from the young ones stuck in my head :(
<popey> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<oimon> do all ibook 12 inch laptops have powerpc processors, or some have intel?
<shauno> all ibook are ppc
<shauno> ppc to intel was the ibook/powerbook to macbook/macbook pro rename. so if it's pre-rename, it's pre-intel
<oimon> umm not sure if it's called ibook :S
<Azelphur> hmm, why is X using 12% of a i7 950
<oimon> it's my sisters silver 12 inch laptop, a few years old but still good
<Azelphur> I mean I know I have a lot of screens, but that's pushing it a bit.
<shauno> :)  well, all the 12" are ppc, yeah.  the closest now is the Air being in 11 & 13
<oimon> ok thanks guy
<oimon> s
<shauno> I think the other giveaway is that all the intel ones are widescreen, I don't think the 12" was
<oimon> i also have a broken ibook g4 ..is there much market for parts?
<oimon> the screen and keyboard are good, the motherboard and dvd drive not so
<shauno> no idea I'm afraid.  never bought 'em until they started putting sensible processors in them :o)
<oimon> :P
<oimon> i gather the motherboard problem on them is well known but apple ignored it
<Azelphur> ah, it was waiting for me to talk about it's high CPU usage in ubuntu-uk so it could crash.
<Azelphur> X is so silly :p
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have google-desktop installed on Ubuntu 11.04 Desktop
<BigRedS> shauno: but PPC had character!
<shauno> anyroad .. off home.  sorry I couldn't be more help with your antique collection ;)
<oimon> :D
<kaushal> How do i make it start after bootup in 11.04
<oimon> but wait...i have a thinkpad 600E
<oimon> :)
<shauno> BigRedS: it really wasn't ppc that bothered me.  it was not being able to try it on something I alread owned
<kaushal> since i dont see Start Up Applications as it was available in earlier releases of Ubuntu ?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks it worked
<kaushal> I fixed it on the switch
<shauno> hm.  I want to go home, but the weather disagrees with me
<kaushal> BigRedS: Thanks
<kaushal> ANy clue to my query ?
<shauno> is there anything in preferences with 'session' in it's name?
<shauno> (educated guesses until someone else joins in)
<kaushal> shauno: preferences ?
<kaushal> How do i see it
<kaushal> its 11.04
<shauno> it's on the menu in the icon top-right (the power icon.  I know.  I don't like that either)
<kaushal> Lots of changes being done
<BigRedS> kaushal: hm? What did I do?
<BigRedS> shauno: Ahh, but you still can't really can you?
<shauno> I think a sheepish grin is the only honest to that one
<BigRedS> haha
<shauno> I don't feel bad.  I'm on my third of their laptop's since then.  fair game as far as I'm concerned
<BigRedS> nah, I was more meaning that I thought hackintosh didn't ever really work that well
<BigRedS> not that I ever even got it working, so I don't know personally...
<shauno> if you can't find startup items or session manager behind the 'power button menu', try just doing alt-f2 and running gnome-session-properties
<shauno> BigRedS: sorta .. it works, until it doesn't.  or until a random software update explodes.  or worse.
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> that's what I used to enjoy about Linux :)
<shauno> ubuntu still explodes on mine, ironically :)
<BigRedS> Oh, I just meant I don't enjoy it any more
<shauno> I can't tell if this rain is coming or going :(
<kaushal> BigRedS: you suggested to look at the Network Switch
<kaushal> shauno: i saw it
<kaushal> its there in StartUp Applications
<shauno> not a bad guess then :)
<kaushal> Dont know why its not shown as icon in the top right
<BigRedS> kaushal: oh, cool. That was no problem then! :)
 * BigRedS feels all useful
 * kaushal has high regards for folks here :)
<shauno> I really, really don't like that the icon top-right is the standby icon.  pressing the off switch to get to startup applications is rather unintuitive
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> shauno: Any further clue ?
<shauno> that's all I know.  they hid all the preferences behind the off button :)
<shauno> past that, I resort to launching things with alt-f2
<kaushal> shauno: Any recommended apps in 11.04 to increase productivity ?
<kirrus> Has anyone here played with amazon cloudfront before?
<BigRedS> kaushal: depends what you're producing...
<BigRedS> q
<MichealH> popey, ping
<popey> MichealH: pong!
<kaushal> I have connected USB Datacard on 10.04 LTS, I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/613825/
<kaushal> I have installed usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
<kaushal> Its not getting detected as USB Modem
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<acperkins> can I pull multiple machines into Landscape with a single Advantage subscription, or do I need a subscription for each client?
<kaushal> I have checked with the rest of the USB Ports too
<kaushal> Still no luck
<kaushal> is there a way to measure the battery backup time in laptop running Ubuntu 11.04 ?
<MichealH> popey, I PMed If you did not notic
<gord> what do you mean backup?
<MichealH> *notice
<BigRedS> kaushal: man acpi  ?
<kaushal> gord: if i run my laptop in battery mode
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: just hover your mouse over the battery icon in the top right
<gord> acperkins, you get five machines with one licence iirc
<kaushal> BigRedS: Any example ?
<gord> kaushal, what do you mean by backup?
<BigRedS> er, I can't remember, but it's not just 'acpi' actually
<gord> do you mean how long it takes to recharge?
<BigRedS> there's some command to dump the ACPI stats, including battery charge. but, yeah, what do you actually want to do?
<kaushal> BigRedS: Basically How long does it run on "On Battery Power"
<kaushal> the moment i boot my laptop
<gord> kaushal, click on the battery indicator on the top right, that will show you
<kaushal> without connecting to AC Power
<kaushal> yes i did it
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: that shows the time remaining
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> I got it
<kaushal> But How long it has run on Battery ?
<acperkins> gord: Excellent, thanks
 * acperkins starts a free trial
<kaushal> Basically How long the Battery Gives power to the Laptop until it finally gives up
<kaushal> right from beginning
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: oh, it doesn't know that
<gord> kaushal, charge your laptop, remove the power cord, then look at the estimated time left
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: is there a way to know it ?
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it really depends on what you're doing (if you play lots of games/videos, you'll have less time)
<kaushal> gord: I missed it
<kaushal> I mean i did not noticed it
<kaushal> is it written somewhere to log ?
<gord> nope
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> How long does it take to fully recharge ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: if you plug in AC power, the countdown-until-empty (click on the battery) will change into countdown-until-full
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: (the time will change to reflect the time needed to fully charge, instead of fully discharge)
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<kaushal> So i need to keep a watch on the Battery Icon
<kaushal> ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I think there's a "properties" or "settings" page that opens if you click
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: you can watch that too.. it has pretty graphs :)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
<kaushal> :)
<kaushal> I have connected USB Datacard on 10.04 LTS, I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/613825/, its not getting detected as USB Modem
<kaushal> Please suggest
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: try installing the usb-modeswitch package
<kaushal> i did it already
<kaushal> still no luck
<MartijnVdS> did you restart after installing? or pull out & plug back in?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: yes
<kaushal> I checked it using different USB Ports too
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Do you need more information ?
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea, sorry
<MartijnVdS> don't have that hardware myself
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> np
<BigRedS> If I comment on an 'expired' bug does that un-expire it, or should I be opening a new one?
<brobostigon> kaushal: i have seen this beforem you nee to apply usb-modeswitch to the device, to open it up as a modem, insted of a usb fs.
<kaushal> brobostigon: I have it already
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: he said he did that.. usb-modeswitch installs udev magic to do that, afaik
<brobostigon> kaushal: hmm, ok.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sorry, i havent been following, fully,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no problem :)
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> it doesn't look like it has done that
<shauno> ugh, that was meant to be delete.  I got it the wrong way around :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: time for weekend :)
<shauno> it looks like that device is 1c9e:1001 before it switches, and 1c9e:6061 after the switch.  so usb_modeswitch has run
<MartijnVdS> oh
<shauno> if it's the same modem as http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1205550
<shauno> if it's not, and they're sharing usb-id's, it's gonna get even more confusing :)
<kaushal> :/
<kaushal> shauno: Shall i pastebin the lsusb Output ?
<shauno> the id's in that last paste
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/613842/
<shauno> it looks like that top line is the right one
<shauno> this feels like a silly question, but have you tried setting up a new connecting with it in network-manager?
<kaushal> Bus 002 Device 007: ID 1c9e:6061
<kaushal> thats the one when i unplug and plug it back
<shauno> but lsusb still shows the two entries starting 12d1 ?
<shauno> you have in that list 12d1:1446, and 12d1:14ac.  according to http://trac.fonosfera.org/fon-ng/browser/trunk/fon/usb-modeswitch/files/usb_modeswitch/12d1%3A1446?rev=1644
<kaushal> there are 3 USB Datacards attached to that server
<shauno> 12d1:14ac is what you want to end up with when modeswitch has finished
<shauno> ah
<shauno> that'll be why lsusb is showing functional cards then   lol
<kaushal> shauno: ok
<kaushal> shauno: Any further clue ?
<shauno> doesn't look like I had any clues to start with :/  googling for the other huawei entries had me right up the wrong tree
<shauno> altho I'm curious how well that many cards works.  surely one's the default route, and the rest just sit there blinking?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: trunking/bonding :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or failover
<shauno> I thought bonding needs support on the isp's side.  teclo's rarely do anything, let alone extra
<shauno> oh, so that box that only had v6 this morning.  I tried to fix it, and now it comes up without any interfaces at all :D
<MartijnVdS> woo
<shauno> (either that, or the kernel update didn't taste nice.  but I'm putting money on it being "I was screwing with it")
<shauno> doesn't answer if I just stuff addresses into the arp table either :/
<jacobw> this is cool
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MADKdbN8nyY
<knightwise> hey everyne
<jacobw> hi knightw
<jacobw> +ise
<jacobw> how do you change the prefered wireless network with nm-applet?
<brobostigon> i think fail2ban is doing its job, dmesg is showing plenty of iptables/ufw activity.
<DJones> Is there a way to check how much memory a video card has?
<mgdm> DJones: dmidecode or lshw might tell you
<DJones> mgdm: Cheers, I'll give that a go
<DJones> Doesn't seem to give the info needed
<mgdm> Might you get it from the Xorg logs?
<MartijnVdS> lspci -vv might also tell you
<DJones> just found it from suo lspic -vv
<DJones> Region 0: Memory at e5000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M] Region 1: Memory at e8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M]
<MartijnVdS> DJones: that could just be the aperture size
<MartijnVdS> it might have more
<DJones> That reads as 128Mb to me
<MartijnVdS> it does
<DJones> I doubt it'll have much more, its a geforce fx 5200 which should only have 64/128/256
<MartijnVdS> but it might have more, with 128M mapped into main memory ("aperture")
<DJones> sudo apt-get install hardinfo
<DJones> Grr
<gord> you can't
 * MartijnVdS wants Intel to hurry with the Ivy Bridge CPUs
<gord> in the past the only way i have been able to find out how much memory i can store in graphics memory is by creating small textures and uploading them until i get an error
<gord> thats not accurate to how much the gpu actually has though, just how much i could grab at that moment
<DJones> hardinfo reports 128M prefetchable
<DJones> At least 128Mb will be an improvement on the 64mb on the original geforce 2 card
<mgdm> Hmmm
<mgdm> Anyone tried to use Brasero recently? It seems to freeze right where it's meant to start burning stuff
<czajkowski> aloha
<mgdm> 'lo czajkowski
<oimon> mgdm: i don't have any probs on lucid
<hamitron> I was gonna try, then realised I have no burner :/
<oimon> watching a programme about the band blur that i videoed about a year ago and haven't wtched yet.
<oimon> missis is out for the night...oimon is holding the baby
<oimon> i still prefer k3b to brasero, even on gnome
<oimon> it never let me down, so it earned my trust
<MartijnVdS> I've stopped burning CDs mostly
<oimon> my car plays mp3s, so i copy 8 albums onto a disc for long journeys
<MartijnVdS> Except when I borrow my parents' car :)
<MartijnVdS> exactly
 * hamitron still uses cassette
<oimon> currently backing up programmes from my pvr over usb1 onto laptop...taking 15mins per 1gb file :(
<jacobw> which programe is that oimon?
<jacobw> 'no distance left to run'?
 * jacobw is a blur fan :)
<oimon> jacobw: yep :) loved blur since day 1
<oimon> they tailed off a bit at the end tho
<oimon> prob saw them at their best when i was at uni 93-96
<jacobw> yeah, i think it took a while for they couldn't continue without coxon
<jacobw> having said that, think tank is still a great album
<jacobw> i only saw them in 2009, i was born in 1991 so i'm a later day blur fan :p
<MartijnVdS> I only have 133
<MartijnVdS> 13
<jacobw> 13 is only one i haven't got :|
<oimon> i was in manchester at the time of blur vs oasis
<oimon> lol
<gord> people who were born in the 90s blow me away, i don't even understand how that is possible
<MartijnVdS> gord: well, their parents had sex in the 90s
<MartijnVdS> gord: maybe the latter part of '89
<oimon> i used to have a thing about people being born after the live aid concert in 84
<MartijnVdS> oimon: october '80 here
<oimon> i used to troll them by saying "were you born before or after live aid"..then you don't have a worthwhile opinion :P
<oimon> when i was in my 20s i didn't think i would ever stop loving music like i did
<MartijnVdS> oimon: when was that? '30?
<oimon> when i stopped being into music so much?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no your 20s
<oimon> :P
<oimon> i'm 36 now
<MartijnVdS> ah, the 90s :)
<MartijnVdS> good old 90s
<oimon> x factor has killed music inthe last 10 years
 * MartijnVdS remembers thos very well
<MartijnVdS> Ace of Base. Dr. Alban
<MartijnVdS> Happy hardcore 8-)
<oimon> MartijnVdS: lol, showing your dutch roots
<MartijnVdS> oimon: probably :)
<oimon> no no nononono nonono there's no limit
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes! 2unlimited
<oimon> they used to play ace of bas and 2unlimited 10 x a night on the spanish holidays i went on in the 90s
<oimon> and nirvana :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: they play this now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURjhSD-FE8 (in Spain)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Nirvana \o/
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ("they play this now" in Spain)
<oimon> that's a shame
<oimon> feel sorry for the kids of today
<MartijnVdS> oimon: there is still good music out there
<MartijnVdS> oimon: (new, good music)
<jacobw> this is true :)
<oimon> yep..here and there
<oimon> but i mellow a bit into my 30s so my tastes change
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Singing women? http://www.youtube.com/nerinapallottv
<oimon> i like bands like this nowadays http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CkfvYMCWM&feature=related
<MartijnVdS> oimon: check my link -- Nerina's new song sounds a bit like that :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you might also like: http://www.youtube.com/user/yelle
<oimon> MartijnVdS: are you still living in NL
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I am
<oimon> on ipv6
<MartijnVdS> yes (though I'm ircing from my UK vps which also has v6)
<oimon> i've been putting off learning ipv6 until a rainy day
<MartijnVdS> it's not hard, ask HazRPG :)
<oimon> :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: You might want to read his blog if you want to give it a go
<oimon> maybe there will be a talk at oggcamp
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/03/31/ipv6-under-ubuntu-10-10/
<oimon> it upsets me a little since i can remember ip addresses of even the first servers i worked with in my first job
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ipv6 isn't that hard, as long as you remember the prefix you'll be ok (the host part will be automatic)
<oimon> i like numbers but ipv6 requires names
<MartijnVdS> oimon: and dns will fix the rest (\o/ multicast-dns aka mdns aka avahi aka default installed on Ubuntu)
<oimon> bookmarked for further reading
<jacobw> dang you've got me listening to blur again
<oimon> hehe
<MartijnVdS> isn't the singer the same guy as the Gorillaz guy?>
<oimon> wanna learn badhead on the piano
<oimon> yep
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: aye
 * MartijnVdS has a few Gorillaz CDs
<MartijnVdS> (and Blur - 13)
<jacobw> plastic beach ftw
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: Plastic Beach is great :)
<MartijnVdS> also, they have the rarest vinyl releases
<jacobw> i didn't know that
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gorillaz
<oimon> i'm liking miro for my video playing needs :)
<oimon> prettier than the usual vlc
<MartijnVdS> Feel Good Inc is in Guitar Hero 5
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.discogs.com/Gorillaz-Feel-Good-Inc/release/438150
<MartijnVdS> ^ RARE
<MartijnVdS> the4thdoctor: Tom Baker?
<jacobw> join #kllunimati
<jacobw> >_<
<bigcalm> Not much of a sales pitch
<bigcalm> Is there a way to batch convert files from windows to unix format?
<bigcalm> PhpEd has been silly and saved everything as Windows type files and also not as UTF8
<denny> this may not be news to anyone, but a recent upgrade seems to have chowned my .gnupg/pubring.gpg to root instead of my local user, so all my GPG stuff stopped working with permission errors.
<denny> I think it was yesterday, looking at the file dates
<brobostigon> good night eveyone, sleep well.
<bigcalm> Good night brobostigon
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-28
<andres_kain> good night! a quicky: I heard that people don't ever minimize and every new aplication will open in a new workspace how
<andres_kain> I'll look into it some other day... but forums talk about devil's pie... but unity probably already can do this... something like
<andres_kain> gotta go!
<n1md4> Are there any gnome3 fans here?
<culinor> I like gnome in general
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Problems Open Doors To Solutions - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/28/problems-open-doors-to-solutions/
<ali1234> stupid open office won't let me write GPs
<ali1234> it always changes it to Gps
<ali1234> even adding it to the dictionary doesn't help
<ali1234> this sucks
<hamitron> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> maybe you mean GPS
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: does it autocorrect when you type the space?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: those are in a separate configuration bit
<ali1234> yeah i found it eventually
<ali1234> i meant GPs as in general practitioners
<MartijnVdS> also.. don't you need sleep? :)
<ali1234> always
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> morning
<czajkowski> hmm
<dutchie> argh, dpkg has got stuck again
<czajkowski> morning to you too dutchie
<dutchie> http://paste.ubuntu.com/614082/
<dutchie> morning czajkowski
<dutchie> this happens annoyingly often
<ging> clearly dpkg is like an action movie baddy
<ging> won't die that easily
<n1md4> morning.  what's the name of the default image viewer in ubuntu ... the one that allows you to order all your photos.
<MartijnVdS> shotwell? or eye of gnome?
<MartijnVdS> it used to be f-spot in older versions
<n1md4> MartijnVdS: It was shotwell I was thinking of, thanks :)
<n1md4> Not really an image viewer, more picture organizer.
<czajkowski> I think I want to curl up and die with the pain today so not in the moood
<ikonia> any uk chaps with sky tv awake
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<ikonia> I'm asking if ther are any UK people with Sky TV awaky
<ikonia> awake
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but you want to ask those people something
<MartijnVdS> (I guess)
<ikonia> yes, but it's pointless asking unless there is a uk user with Sky TV awake
<MartijnVdS> If someone with Sky TV wakes up in 5 minutes, they'll read your question and answer it
<ikonia> then it will be pointless,
<MartijnVdS> Why? What's the question? :)
<ikonia> I need someone to test something
<Laney> this one is better
<Laney> !anyone
<lubotu3> A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<shauno> got a funny feeling I'm gonna be kinda rude to o2 when I go to insert .. err .. return this modem on monday :/
<livingdaylight> can the unity bar be moved to the bottom, or is it stuck to the left side?
<ali1234> it's stuck to the left hand side
<Oli``> Anybody know if there's a way of keying in the dimensions (width/height/etc) of an existing shape in photoshop. I need to very precisely resize something.
<jacobw> afternoon hamitron
<hamitron> hi jaco
<hamitron> hows things?
<jacobw> good, at a lose end.. yourself?
<hamitron> ok here ty
<hamitron> just a bit lost in what direction to go in, with my computer systems
<hamitron> :)
<jacobw> its a bank holiday. and i can't think of ANYTHING to do :|
<Laney> fix some bugs
 * jacobw checks harvest
<hamitron> I think I may move some of my older machines to linuxfromscratch
<jacobw> why?
<hamitron> can't think of what else to use
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> lets me choose what I want
<hamitron> as everything else is just not what I want
<hamitron> other option is a ubuntu base, then some custom packages to replace ones I don't like, but give them high version numbers
<hamitron> but that could get messy
<hamitron> not even sure it would be that easy to work
<jacobw> debian + apt-pinning ?
<hamitron> debian lenny works fine tbh
<hamitron> but I'm wanting something that is easier to tweak myself, after support is gone
<jacobw> lenny is oldstable
<hamitron> that, or something with a longer life
<hamitron> yeh, it won't be supported much longer?
<jacobw> ha, debian stable isn't supported long enough for you?!
<jacobw> to be fair, i don't know how long its supported for.
<hamitron> I read it will end about a year after 6.0 was released
<hamitron> and 6.0 has the same problems as ubuntu
<hamitron> so no real gains
<jacobw> what problem are these?
<hamitron> there is a version of Puppy Linux 5.0 that is nearer the mark, but puppy really isn't what I need
<hamitron> I need/want an old version of X.org
<jacobw> centos/scientific linux perhaps?
<hamitron> centos is compiled for i686
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> not sure about scientific
<hamitron> will check it out
<jacobw> i386
 * jacobw goes to sit in the park
<hamitron> the centos images say i386
<hamitron> but they lie
<hamitron> I downloaded the whole thing, labelled i386 and then found that out
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> Centos 4.x is the last version to work on i586
<jacobw> i wonder whether redhat themselves support i386
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> that is why centos doesn't
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> 4.x is really old
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> support ends very soon
<hamitron> I was wanting centos 5.x
<hamitron> it comes with Xorg 7.2
<penguin42> hamitron: You could build X from source
<jacobw> it sounds like debian lenny is the best option before LFS
<hamitron> penguin42: I think it is either that, with ubuntu 10.04, or lfs
<Laney> why would you want something old to tinker with?
<Laney> that sounds bizarre
<penguin42> hamitron: Gentoo?
<hamitron> I'd want something that works wtih my hardware
<hamitron> gentoo is too new
<hamitron> at least, from what I could figure out
<penguin42> what feature of old X does it need?
<MartijnVdS> a config file!
<hamitron> xserver 1.4.1 or lower
<hamitron> and a config file is helpful
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I can make the config file on another system if needs must
<penguin42> hamitron: What hardware needs that though?
<hamitron> the nvidia 71 driver
<hamitron> so geforce 2 and earlier
<dreamcoder> ok so bene using ubuntu for years tried arch other week i do like it, but now i have fedora on my laptop and dont know what i want to keep on it
<dreamcoder> grrr
<hamitron> I can run with the open source drivers, but pointless running newer software just to lose features
<dreamcoder> dont know wether to go back to windows 7 for battery life
<hamitron> dreamcoder: it is healthy to use lots! ;)
<dreamcoder> i hate distro hopping though lol
<jacobw> stick with ubuntu/debian
<dreamcoder> i am starting my degree in oct so I thought windows would be better for that with office, but libre office seems pretty stable
<jacobw> if ubuntu doesn't do what you want, you be that debian will.
<dreamcoder> what is battery life like in the new ubuntu?
<jacobw> what is you're degree in/
<dreamcoder> Computing & I.T
<jacobw> ya, stick with ubuntu/debian ;)
<jacobw> dreamcoder, are you by any chance doing it with the open university/
<dreamcoder> ya
<penguin42> hamitron: Well you could try adding stuff to the open driver?
<hamitron> it is beyond me
<hamitron> ;/
<dreamcoder> yeah I am thought would give me something extra on my c.v
 * jacobw started Computing & IT with the OU in February
<dreamcoder> oh right
<hamitron> all I want is 3d
<dreamcoder> how are you finding it?
<jacobw> 3 parts boring 1 part easy..
<hamitron> penguin42: you think an old version of Xorg would be easy to integrate?
<dreamcoder> reallly
<jacobw> but then the introductory modules were always going to be boring
<dreamcoder> yeah i imagine digital life will be boring
<penguin42> hamitron: There will be loads of things that have dependencies on newer versions but I bet most of them work (except GL drivers) care
<dreamcoder> and I have chosen microsoft server tech for othe rmodule
<dreamcoder> other*
<jacobw> yeah, i'm doing the last presentations of M150/T175
<jacobw> why?
<jacobw> microsoft server tech is really boring :|
<dreamcoder> I know but I really cantb bothered with maths
<dreamcoder> lol
<dreamcoder> did that at college thought server may be a bit more interesting
<hamitron> penguin42: dunno if to make custom package versions to replace what is there, or to not install xorg, then compile into /usr/local or something
<jacobw> i'm considering doing maths as a second subject with the computing & it or just plain switching to maths.
<penguin42> hamitron: Yeh well a compilation into /somewhere/safe shouldn't break stuff
<hamitron> ideally, I'd want the package manager to still work
<hamitron> and to be able to install GUI apps from apt-get
<hamitron> but run it all on Xorg 7.3
<dreamcoder> so does ubuntu do what you need it too for the course?
<jacobw> yeah, all i need to do is the open the PDF format assignments, write the assignment libre office, save it as a microsoft word 2003 document (i'm not sure that's even necessary now with word 2007/2010 supporting ODF) and submit it through their web interface.
<jacobw> i use tomboy notes to collect my thoughts on the assignment and dump my responses to a text file with vim..
<dreamcoder> yeah have you tried submitting as odf? would it be allowed
<jacobw> as long as they can open it they don't care.
<dreamcoder> oh right
<jacobw> some tutors are more technically able then others
<hamitron> penguin42: you've talked me around
<hamitron> as I really want to stick with ubuntu if I can
<hamitron> :)
<dreamcoder> so any linux distro would be fine the course then
<jacobw> yeah
<dreamcoder> I dont like the new unity rubbish, but i do like gnome 3 so I dont think ubuntu is the way unless I want to revert back to gnome 2 or install gnome 3 on ubuntu which I have heard can break a system
<dreamcoder> arch is nice though and fast, fedora takes an age to boot
<jacobw> fedora 15?
<dreamcoder> yeah
<dreamcoder> thats what i am using atm
<dreamcoder> installed it yesterday
<jacobw> so much for their fast booting system :)
<dreamcoder> I know.. suppose to be alot faster with the new symlinkv? is it cant remember, arch is quick booing so is ubuntu but fedora is quite slow in comparison
<dreamcoder> fedora is quick once booted tho!
<dreamcoder> finding yum very slow compared to pacman too
<jacobw> yum is painful
<dreamcoder> another thing when I had ubuntu on my laptop prevously my battery was dead in a month or so ubuntu killed it lol well the kernel did so i am unsure as i have just ordered a new bttery and dont ant that to die
<dreamcoder> want*
<dreamcoder> thats the only thing tempting me to windows 7
<jacobw> you don't know that ubuntu killed the battery ;)
<dreamcoder> it is a bug in the kernel apparently there is a similar bug currently
<hamitron> dreamcoder: you could use ubuntu lts
<hamitron> gnome 2 goodness
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> for another 22 months
<dreamcoder> yeah! i am usisng 11.04 with classic desktop on my main pc atm
<dreamcoder> think ubuntu chosethe wrong route with unity tbh
<hamitron> I'm keeping an open mind
 * jacobw prefers unity to gnome shell
<dreamcoder> really
<dreamcoder> I tried both, but gnome 3 is preferable to me
<jacobw> unity gives applications more space
<acperkins> I love GNOME Shell but everything was so chunky on my netbook
<jacobw> exactly
<jacobw> they've gone feature hiding again
<dreamcoder> gnome 3 is perfect on my laptop its 16" screen
<dreamcoder> i dont like the big title bars tho that is a waste of space
 * hamitron likes LXDE
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> people don't care about graphical environments, people care about applications
<acperkins> I also had some issues in Fedora 15 where programs would refuse to maximise
<jacobw> so in my view the more the graphic environment stays out of the way of the applications the better
<dreamcoder> i have'nt tried lxde
<acperkins> but I don't know if that was a Fedora or a GNOME3 issue
<dreamcoder> i am currrently using fedora 15 and have no problems with maximsing etc
<dreamcoder> good point jacobw
<dreamcoder> need to find a replacment dvd drive for my 6920g
<jacobw> 6920g?
<hamitron> lxde is very light, and is functional enough for me.... kinda like windows 95
<jacobw> about battery life, newer kernels (including the version in 11.04 IIRC) have improved power management
<dreamcoder> yeah acer, it has a bluray drive that hasnt worked since i have had the laptop lol
<dreamcoder> so looking for a normal dvdrw for it
<jacobw> i'd recommend ubuntu over fedora
<jacobw> for these reasons..
<jacobw> apt/dpkg, launchpad/PPAs, better support for proprietary audio/video formats, longer life cycles and LTS releases.. and last but not least; the community :)
<jacobw> argh :|
 * jacobw really is going to the park now.
<kvarley> is there a prebuilt version of gtkmm3.0 available for Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe in the gnome3 ppa?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yes, thank you :) was looking for a gtkmm ppa, doh. It's on the gnome3 ppa tho :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<oimon> hamitron: just caught up on what u were saying about an hour ago
<oimon> scientific linux might be up your street..i use it at work all the time.
<oimon> they do 64 bit too
<oimon> it's really nice for rolling out systems with kickstart
<oimon> plus it is supported for another million years
<hamitron> oimon: does it use the same compile options as redhat and centos?
<oimon> hmm i dunno - i think SL is closer to RH than centos is
<oimon> but u can easily rebuild srpms
<oimon> what's the issue with compile options?
<hamitron> both RH and CentOS are i686
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> u want optimisation for a partilclar processor?
<hamitron> i586
<hamitron> tbh
<hamitron> i386 or anything that runs
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> to get CentOS working, I was going to have to recompile the kernel and some of the libs
<hamitron> I should maybe customise Wary Puppy
<oimon> which processor are you trying to run on?
<hamitron> i586
<oimon> what's the actual processor?
<hamitron> they range from pentium 1 to Core i3
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> intel, amd and via cpu
<hamitron> but most don't do i686 instructions
<oimon> we run SL on some pretty old machines
<oimon> SL5 runs just fine on a P4
<hamitron> P4 is i686
<hamitron> so is P3
<Azelphur> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/05/28/0347235/HTC-Is-Paying-Microsoft-5-For-Every-Android-Phone
<Azelphur> :/
<hamitron> it is cpu like the AMD K6-2
<hamitron> and the VIA C3
<hamitron> that are the main ones I need i586
<oimon> how old/slow are these machines
<hamitron> 120mhz to 850mhz
<penguin42> hamitron: Do the K6-2's have cmov ?
<hamitron> the 850mhz are not that old tbh
<penguin42> oh, yeh if it's 850 it'll be relatively recent
<hamitron> the AMD Geode are only i586 too i believe, but I don't have one of them
<hamitron> and h6-2 does not have cmov
<hamitron> k6-2*
<hamitron> nor does the VIA C3
<oimon> i can give u a newer machine if u need it :D
<hamitron> but I know they run fine, if compiled for i586 cpu or lower
<hamitron> oimon: ty, but I have 14 machines here needing love
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I should maybe not bother caring
<hamitron> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1316240408.png
<hamitron> haha
<oimon> oof
<oimon> should say "slower than treacle"
<hamitron> that is worst I've had it tbh
<hamitron> haha
<oimon> on 2g mobile or something?
<hamitron> ADSL
<hamitron> ADSL Max I mean
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I must say, it was faster without the Max bit
<oimon> as already mentioned, debian tends to be the one with the best architecture support
<oimon> i run debian on my linksys nlsu2
<hamitron> yeh, debian works well tbh
<hamitron> but ubuntu works just as well
<hamitron> I mean, compiling for i686 over i586 doesn't really give that much of a performance increase
<hamitron> there was talk of changing to i686
<hamitron> but not sure what is happening
<hamitron> i should maybe just learn a different distro, that is targeted more to what I need
<hamitron> but ubuntu is where its at imo
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> definately the place to be
<oimon> so long as i can run a decent DE
<oimon> and ubunt has sufficient users that all tastes can be catered for :D
<oimon> although there's a lot to bne said for using the default DE...
<hamitron> I choose default normally
<hamitron> i use LXDE on some machines, for performance reasons
<hamitron> but the rest I just leave everything default
<kvarley> How do I add my button to the window? http://paste.ubuntu.com/614214/
<kvarley> Installing gtkmm3.0 has made ambiance stop working
<ball> hello kazade
<livingdaylight> is there a preference dialog somewhere for the unity bar? I'd like to change the time it takes for the bar to hide and re-appear for eg, or even whether to set autohide to "on" or "off"
<MartijnVdS> that's not configurable (yet?)
<livingdaylight> no? is nothing configurable on unity bar?
<MartijnVdS> the fact that it authides (and how) is configurable
<MartijnVdS> but the time it takes isn't
<MartijnVdS> but I guess they take patches
<livingdaylight> where?
<livingdaylight> or how?
<MartijnVdS> ask gord
<penguin42> my DSL is feeling very non-interactive today even though ping times to my machines seem to be consistently low
<penguin42> ssh to my mail machine being laggy and beeb radio listen again dropping in and out
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a large background upload?
<penguin42> no tthat I can see and the router lights aren't a blinkin
<MartijnVdS> have you tried resetting the router?
<MartijnVdS> (powercycle)
<penguin42> nah, not yet - but given ping times to my machines are Ok and no drops to them I doubt the DSL connection itself is bad
<MartijnVdS> sometimes the os in your router will do that
<MartijnVdS> It happens
<penguin42> hmm it shouldn't - it's Linux
<MartijnVdS> doctor time :)
<penguin42> who?
<MartijnVdS> yes, him
<AlanBell> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * AlanBell is in a bar in France
<AlanBell> with a rather cloudy local beer
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1316457270.png
<AlanBell> and unexciting broadband
<gord> AlanBell, i think thats about the uk average broadband, should be just like home ;)
 * MartijnVdS reflects on the fact that the "archaeological theme park" (i.e. medieval houses, bronze age huts, etc.) here got fibre before me
<gord> there is fibre in my area, i just can't seem to find a good ISP for it
<MartijnVdS> My project at work is writing (part of) the code that makes us (ISP) able to use fibre :)
<MartijnVdS> I think the projects will be finished around the same time (my work and the fibre-laying)
<gord> is your job (ISP) a company (place of business) called be?
<MartijnVdS> gord: xs4all
<MartijnVdS> gord: in Amsterdam
<gord> :(
<AlanBell> it is a bit slower than home, but I only get 4Mbit
<MartijnVdS> gord: pics of the park though: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks
<penguin42> ah yeh, they've hosted some useful sites for many years
<penguin42> gord: FTTC I assume?
 * MartijnVdS will get ftth \o/
<gord> penguin42, yup, to the home would be nice but not bothered
<penguin42> gord: I think A&A do FTTC but they aren't cheap but they are well respected
<gord> never heard of htem
<penguin42> gord: aaisp.net.uk
<shauno> I've heard good things about them too
<gord> just took a look, looks like they limit you to X-gb during the day, which is bad
<AlanBell> this bar is getting rather full of people here watching some football game
<penguin42> gord: I think they let you pay for as much as you like - but as I say they aren't cheap
 * AlanBell posts slightly controversial blog post
 * MartijnVdS reads
<shauno> I'm so lazy, that I'll wait until the bot gives me the url :)
<gord> http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-bebt.html confuses me about their relationship with be
<gord> why would they host that article?
<penguin42> gord: Because they let you choose - they're intended for the technical people who actually care about how their DSL works
<penguin42> (and that it does)
<gord> you have lost me, i already have be internet
<penguin42> gord: ok so most ISPs don't have equipment in exchanges, but they use someone elses - e.g. BTs or BEs
<gord> oh christ they mean sky right?
<penguin42> gord: That then routes to the ISPs equipment that then actually does IP routing and billing and peering onto whatever bandwidth they are going to pay for
<AlanBell> talktalk have equipment I think
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh there are a few
<gord> not be the isp
<penguin42> gord: I'm not sure of the relationship between Be and Sky; It all got a bit complex with Sky buying bits of different people
<gord> what i'm saying, is that its not referring to the isp be
<ali1234> gord: a&a have their own irc channel so you can go and ask them
<penguin42> gord: Yes it is
<gord> which run on bt stuff
<penguin42> gord: Be/O2 have their own equipment in many exchanges
<penguin42> gord: See http://www.samknows.com/broadband/llu
<gord> it doesn't matter, aa are too ridged - you can't get much bandwidth during the day without paying Â£300
<penguin42> yeh I said they weren't cheap - they will work though
<gord> they aren't cheep because they are rediculous ;)
<penguin42> gord: They have the reputation as the only ISP who can get BT to unscrew a line
<ali1234> a&a are funny
<ali1234> it's the same guy who redirected all the unused phone numbers to a time wasting message to annoy telemarketers
<penguin42> ah that's right; Sky bought the Easynet network, not the Be one
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so it's Skynet now?
 * penguin42 gulps
<shauno> oh oh oh .. I just remembered it's saturday ..
<JonTheNiceGuy> Anyone know much about xen?
<ali1234> the isp?
<penguin42> ali1234: That's Zen
<ali1234> oh, the virtualization?
<AlanBell> the virtualisation thing?
<JonTheNiceGuy> Yehr
<ali1234> then, no
<JonTheNiceGuy> I'm trying to figure out whether xm destroy <subdomain> actually does anything other than "pull the virtual power lead"
<JonTheNiceGuy> Maybe I'll ask in #xen :)
<jacobw> most OLOs have their own equipment in exchanges
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ubuntu UK LoCo CDs - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ubuntu-uk-loco-cds
<shauno> I can't see why that'd be controversial.  it was only k*  :)
<AlanBell> well yeah, that was my feeling too :)
<Azelphur> popey: you run totally vanilla on your mc server?
<dutchie> Azelphur: yes, he does iirc
<Azelphur> fun :p
<popey> yes
<popey> Dear Steam. Download faster.
<gord> popey, you can change your location in the settings to get put on a different server, best thing to do is pick somewhere in eastern europe
<popey> ooo
<gord> i normally have to do that when say, valve release free DLC for left4dead or something
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<jacobw> MOO
 * jacobw hopes to panic bigcalm 
<bigcalm> o.O
<popey> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hey popey
<popey> fancy some minecrafting? âº
<bigcalm> I am envious of you for still having a Wimpy
<bigcalm> Sure :)
<popey> i didnt have one
<popey> sam did
<popey> i just had a coffee
<bigcalm> Indeed, but you have the 'choice' :P
<popey> heh
<popey> pizza hut was horribly scuzzy
<bigcalm> Oh dear :(
<bigcalm> They are quite good around here
<popey> also the guy in wimpy gave sam a toy
<popey> yeah, usually fine
<bigcalm> \o.
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> busy saturday
<bigcalm> Aha
<popey> its a spinning top with LEDs inside
<popey> its _awesome_
<emorris> hi, I've noticed a couple of times that the Update Manager just hangs with "waiting" and no progress. Is there anything I can do to get some useful information to report a bug?
<penguin42> emorris: Gnome or KDE?
<emorris> Pendulum, Gnome
<penguin42> hmm not seen the Gnome one do that
<emorris> Pendulum, sorry
<jacobw> i guess that it cannot `apt-get update`
<penguin42> it's worth trying it from the command line with apt-get and see if it works
<emorris> Finally something happened. I got "There isn't any need for an installation" "Package [dbus.String(u'adobe-flash-properties-gtk')] is already installed", but I did have updates available
<emorris> oh, now there's no updates :-s
<jacobw> hmm, i think this a bug.
<jacobw> you shouldn't be seeing dbus.String(..)
<jacobw> !bugs
<lubotu3> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs - Bugs in/wishes for the IRC bots (not Ubuntu) can be filed at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<jacobw> i think the gtk program is upsetting dpkg and getting strings back from gtk that doesn't expect
<jacobw> sorry, apt not dpkg
<jacobw> ..
<jacobw> also 'from apt' not 'from gtk'
<jacobw> o/ Bassetts
<shauno> toffee dodgers advert is possibly one of the best things I've seen on TV this year
<gord> geez, windows is really really bad at two finger scroll
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-29
<jacobw> yo..
<shauno> morning
<matthewgall> lol
<matthewgall> Mrning
<matthewgall> Morning
<jibadeeha> anyone awake at this time?
<Azelphur> yep
<jibadeeha> wow ... i went to sleep at 6pm yesterday and just woke up now and wondered where i am - mad
<jibadeeha> anyway having my first coffee of the day
<Azelphur> :p
<ali1234> hmm me too
<jibadeeha> have never been fully awake and about at this time
<jibadeeha> i should do this more often
<vanmarco> understand you jibadeeha
<vanmarco> samehere
<knightwise> morning !
<knightwise> hello kazade
<knightwise> morning
<mikeatvillage> Hi. Anyone know how to install MDAC 2.8 under Wine1.2.2 on Ubuntu 11.04
<daubers> Morning
<danfish> ahoy-hoy all :)
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning!
<BigRedS> How's things?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: tired, got zero sleep. and you?
<BigRedS> ah. I'm pretty good. I spent most of yesterday finally getting rount to working on a bunch of long-standing projects
<BigRedS> feeling raring to go and get a couple finished :)
<brobostigon> :)
<jacobw> morning brobostigon
<jacobw> and BigRedS
<jacobw> etc
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<danfish>  morning all (again!)
<brobostigon> morning danfish
 * danfish is feeling a bit rough post-rugby yesterday
<czajkowski> munster won :)
<danfish> czajkowski: excellent - Saracens also :)
<danfish> I can heartily recommend the premiership final at Twickers - not expensive either - Â£12 is wot I paid
<danfish> czajkowski: an ubuntu-uk day out next year me thinks
<SpudULike> danfish, I'd be up for that.
<danfish> SpudULike: I'll suggest it in 6 months time
<czajkowski> yessss
<danfish> tap tap - is this thing on?
<penguin42> no
<DJones> Nope, its been disabled
<penguin42> hmph, the intel x server crash on natty is annoying me
<danfish> penguin42: X is way overated ;)
<DJones> penguin42: which x server crash on natty? I've not had that problem thankfully
<penguin42> DJones: The one that goes libpthread, librecord, _CallCallbacks, WriteToClient, libdri2.so: ProcDRI2WaitMSCReply, DRI2WaitMSCComplete
<penguin42> DJones: Bug 774978
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 774978 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "xserver crashes in RecordAReply when XRecord is enabled in syndaemon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774978
<DJones> penguin42: I've not had that happen to me
<penguin42> DJones: Is happening pretty regularly for me on opening firefox
<DJones> Perhaps thats why I've not seen it, I use chromium, maybe theres a subtle differnce
<penguin42> yeh, it's obviously something just tickling a bug somewhere
<kvarley> is there a voip service for Ubuntu that will let me serve it via ubuntu server but the clients can connect through a web interface?
<gord> omg are reporting on some odd things lately... http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/ivanka-hits-the-road/ - just... a little personal if you ask me
<kvarley> gord: That site used to be a lot better imo. I moved to http://webudp8.org more than that
<kvarley> gord: errr *http://www.webupd8.org/
<popey> ewww webupd8
<jacobw> i find omgubuntu more like a fashion magazine than a technology website
<jacobw> i think a lot of people like that though
<AlanBell> evening all
<AlanBell> !dvd
<lubotu3> Ubuntu's default installation and repositories do not include packages needed to play commercial DVDs for legal reasons. For information on adding them, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs | For information on the legalities involved, see the "DVD" section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<MichealH> Oh wow... Ist 6PM already?
<brobostigon> yep.
<brobostigon> i have chicken curry, cooking, :)
 * penguin42 has an Eve's pudding cooking
<dwatkins> mmm, pudding
<dwatkins> What are you making, penguin42?
<daubers> Arghhhh!!!
 * AlanBell has beer
<daubers> TV is aggravating
<brobostigon> AlanBell: :)
<daubers> 4 people stood in a server room surrounded by Dell blades having a normal conversation. If those blades where on, they would barely be able to hear themselvse!
<penguin42> dwatkins: I said - an Eve's pudding!
<ali1234> daubers: what show is that, just out of interest?
<daubers> ali1234: Numb3rs
<ali1234> oh, ok, i see
<Azelphur> daubers: that's nothing
<Azelphur> daubers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ cracks me up every time :D
<daubers> Azelphur: There was a lot of fail in that episode :(
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> have you all seen that CSI episode where they have to hack an excel spreadsheet on an xbox by playing second life?
<Azelphur> lmfao, no but it sounds hilarious
<ali1234> i may in fact have mixed together two episodes there, but if i did, they are both hilariously bad
<Azelphur> ali1234: seen visual basic gui to track the killers IP? :P
<popey> haha, "I speak leet"
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbxwtEKpEL4
<Azelphur> ali1234: wtf he hands him a calculator
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> "Here's a calculator" "I CAN DO IT!"
<Azelphur> LOL He's fighting with the calculator
<Azelphur> xD
<oimon> my missis watches CSI but i can't stand it
<ali1234> it's fairly entertaining as long as they don't talk about anything that you actually understand
<ali1234> like most TV actually
<oimon> yeah, i prefer spiral and the killing for crime drama
<ali1234> i can't find the xbox spreadsheets one
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU :D
<ali1234> that one was really horrible
<Azelphur> ^ lmfao the comments on that one
<ali1234> yes that one is so bad it became a meme
<Azelphur> xD
<ali1234> the spreadsheets one had that guy from out of nypd:blue
<ali1234> i'm not sure it was CSI
<popey> love the comments on that one
<ali1234> but it was one of those generic cop shows
<Azelphur> yea, lol
<popey> "I'll create a batch fileï»¿ using notepad, to see if I can find out who stole my club sandwich."
<oimon> in spooks they tend to decrypt high level encryption on the fly all the time
<popey> maybe they have a beowulf cluster ;)
<oimon> actually in one episode i think they wrote a virus to turn the country into a grid compute engine to work something out
<popey> mmmm portal 2
<Azelphur> oh yea, we totally can't miss this one out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
<ali1234> omg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhGPVYRsOY
<Azelphur> ali1234: lmao
<oimon> i love it
<ali1234> Azelphur: blade runner is the canonical example of that i guess
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> and here's a funny spoof of that scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erADi08Bc2I
<oimon> usually youtube comments are retarded but these ones are actually quite good
<Azelphur> ali1234: haha
<oimon> my baby boy took his first steps today :D
<Azelphur> oimon: woo \o/
<oimon> has anyone watched shadowline on bbc ? any good?
<matthewgall> I watched a few episodes on iPlayer, not bad, not bad.
<oimon> iplayer seems quite inconsistent about the length of time things are available for
<shauno> I believe that's intentional .. it depends what rights the bbc has to things
<matthewgall> It's not even that.
<matthewgall> With series, it's 7 days after the last episode of the series
<oimon> been taken by surprise sometimes when some stuff deisppears within a week
<oimon> most of the time i don't even realise a series has started that i've waited for
<oimon> until about week3
<matthewgall> I hate when that happens.
<dwatkins> penguin42: ah sorry, I thought you meant for this evening :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> I never did trust cucumbers
<dwatkins> I never trusted e-coli.
<Azelphur> I never trusted trains.
<AlanBell> getting cold and I have run out of beer, time to move away from the wifi for the night o/
<gord> does AlanBell have to internet from his shed? o_O
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> gord: it might be his den?
<penguin42> is he still in France?
<daubers> gord: I wanna shed to internet from :(
<brobostigon> heated with dedicated bar and beer pumps,
<brobostigon> ?
<daubers> Half decent sound system and 3 monitors would do me nicely
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> interesting, I wonder why my desktop is DHCping every 5 minutes
<MartijnVdS> because your router is giving out 5-minute leases?
<gord> i just tried to open a .bmp file on windows, it made me agree to some licence before i could do that. sometimes we forget just how good we have it on ubuntu
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Just coming from a standard Linux dhcp server
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: You can check the lease time it's giving out in the config
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: default-lease-time 600;  hmm is that 10mins ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> the client might be refreshing slightly before that
<MartijnVdS> to make sure it doesn't expire
<penguin42> hmm that's a bit ott
<MartijnVdS> make it 86400 (1 day) or 3600 (1 hour)
 * penguin42 wonders why I did that
 * penguin42 wonders if I accidentally deleted the 3 at some point
<MartijnVdS> it might be the default
<Azelphur> Is there any universal command line file extractor?
<Azelphur> like file roller, but without the GUI, so I can be lazy writing some scripts and not have to write a big switch statement for every different file format
<BigRedS> not that I know of
<BigRedS> you should write one
<BigRedS> :)
<Azelphur> \o/
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Was it you that was trying to get the cluster of machines running last week?
<Azelphur> penguin42: indeed it was
<penguin42> how's it going?
<Azelphur> penguin42: it's all chugging along quite nicely, I didn't even need any extra cooling
<Azelphur> makes the entire floor of the house kinda toasty, but it chugs along ok :)
<penguin42> hehe
<Azelphur> I reckon ambient on the top floor is around 35-40C
<penguin42> ouch - that'll shorten the life of them a bit
<Azelphur> you reckon?
<penguin42> you might be OK; I genereally get a bit worried over 30
<Azelphur> hehe, it's usually 30 here whatever I do
<Azelphur> my room without a supercomputer is 28 right now
<penguin42> 40 is a bit toasty though
<Azelphur> yea, 40 is toasty
<penguin42> so how much juice is that taking?
<Azelphur> I don't have any temp sensors unfortunately, should probably get some
<Azelphur> a lot less than I originally thought, only 1.7kw :)
<penguin42> for all 8?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> and I've got the door wide open with the attic hatch open just outside said door to act as a vent
<penguin42> hmm 220w a piece, I assume the CPU is quite idle then and it's the graphics card banging away?
<Azelphur> yep
<penguin42> because the CPUs are normally rated at 95w flat out
<Azelphur> yea, that's why I'm not using them, they are largely uneconomical :)
<Azelphur> I'm thinking of knocking up a case and building a quad card rig with a little wind tunnel for the gpus
<Azelphur> penguin42: it's doing 3.4ghash/sec btw :p
<penguin42> is that good?
<Azelphur> yea, I'm top 10 in my pool
<Azelphur> http://btcmine.com/toplist/
<penguin42> so you've got one card in each ?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> penguin42: 3.4ghash/sec means giga-hashes per second, ie if I was brute forcing a password hash :)
<Azelphur> everybodys password hashes are no longer safe >:)
<penguin42> Azelphur: And how much is a block currently worth?
<Azelphur> not that I'm using it for that, anyway
<Azelphur> penguin42: Â£227 GBP
<Azelphur> but that's a very flakey value
<Azelphur> it depends on supply and demand / going exchange rate / direction of the wind etc...
<penguin42> Azelphur: ok, so it's costing you about 25p/hour in elastictrickery, so what's that, Â£6/day, Â£42/week
<Azelphur> woa, what electric rates you got me on there buddy?
<Azelphur> that's way high :P
<Azelphur> I'm on 7.5p/kwh
<penguin42> really? Wow that's not too bad
<Azelphur> perks of being parked right next to the worlds largest offshore wind farm
<penguin42> and that's cheaper?
<Azelphur> course, because we generate so much electricity it's cheaper here
<Azelphur> it doesn't have to be routed long distance
<Azelphur> at least from my understanding, electric prices are calculated based on where you live
<penguin42> where's that?
<Azelphur> Margate, Kent
<penguin42> I didn't think it varied that much
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-21
<ali1234> is compiz involved?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> I see it too
<Azelphur_> ali1234, you about? lg4l question :p
<Azelphur_> or anyone who happens to be good with packaging, I'm trying to remove a package, and it's refusing :<
<Azelphur_> think I managed to patch the prerm script to make it work \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ hacking in /var/lib/dpkg/info/
<Azelphur> indeed :p
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: since your the only awake person, happen to know how to install a bios .rom file?
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: urrr
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: install a BIOS ROM file?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: as in, flash your bios with the contents of a file?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apt-cache search flash bios :)
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> morning daubers
<daubers> Plasterer finishes today \o/
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<daubers> Just painting and tiling left to do now \o/ (and skirting board and archetraves)
<DJones> daubers: Hope its not like road resurfacing, as in resurface a road, the have to dig/put holes to run a cable/pipe afterwards
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> DJones: Cables are already in \o/
<diplo> tested?
<daubers> diplo: Yup
<diplo> heh
<daubers> Got cat 6a running through the house now :)
<diplo> Borrowed from work ?
<daubers> Bought through work
<daubers> Was excess from a 1k reel
<DJones> Interesting comparison for anybody looking at mobile internet http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/21/review_uk_carriers_network_vs_network/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> How can I send a ctrl-c to a terminal without pressing ctrl-c?
<diplo> I had a few boxes of 315mtr boxes myself daubers
<diplo> Still not got round to properly wiring
<daubers> :) I need to wire in the patch panel still... but need to put a socket in the comms cabinet first
<diplo> under linux bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> diplo: it's a Debian server that isn't responding to ctrl-c
<ali1234> kill -INT
<bigcalm> Humm
<ali1234> or kill -2
<bigcalm> Ok. I still need to work out how to get ctrl-c working
<ali1234> what's the deal with zombies?
<bigcalm> Lack of brains apparently
<ali1234> serverfault says they use no resources
<ali1234> i know for a fact this is not true
<ali1234> because i'm still weekly killing hundreds of them on a server
<ali1234> if i don't, oomkiller comes out to play
<bigcalm> Read that as 'weakly'
<ali1234> [1899841.373219] mysqld invoked oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x1201d2, order=0, oomkilladj=0
<ali1234> [1899841.383262] Killed process 32246 (python)
<ali1234> same thing every tme
<ali1234> [1968900.628640] npviewer.bin[1754]: segfault at f5a6d0b4 ip 00000000f620a943 sp 00000000ffe38730 error 4 in libflashplayer.so[f5e42000+b5f000]
<ali1234> every time that happens it creates a zombie
<bigcalm> Oh my. Taken from a client's email sig: Senior Computer Operator
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> is that like "elderly drivers"
<christel> bigcalm: hahaha
<diplo> bigcalm: Reply and say what does your job title involve ?
<diplo> :)
<DJones> Sounds like somebody who does open heart surgery on a computer
<diplo> His name Steve Camplin ?
<diplo> Found someones Linkedin profile with the same title
<diplo> But that was '92 to '95
<bigcalm> Na, a lass is our account manager at PayPoint
<DJones> diplo: How about these for strange job titles http://www.recruitment-views.com/the-ten-strangest-job-titles-on-linkedin/1893
<diplo> heh
<ali1234> lots of people spell it "senor" by accident
<ali1234> which is just comical
<diplo> 4.         Wizard of Light Bulb Moments
<diplo> Top score tbh
<ali1234> microsoft launched a social network
<ali1234> i don't predict this turning out well
<popey> is it called "live" perchance?
<ali1234> no it's called so.cl
<popey> oh dear
<ali1234> which i assume is pronounced "sockel"
<ali1234> because how else would you pronounce it?
<popey> "social" I suspect ;)
<popey> haha, you can sign in with facebook
<ali1234> no, i telling you, it rhymes with the way a 3 year old says "bottle"
<popey> bo ul
 * diplo predicts flop
<SuperMatt> I've just installed 10.04 in a vm and it's fucking snappy
<SuperMatt> I'm half tempted to install it to disk and use that instead of 12.04
<bigcalm> !ohmy | SuperMatt
<lubotu3`> SuperMatt: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<SuperMatt> oh, sorry. I swore again
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: So am I
<SuperMatt> sorry sorry
<SuperMatt> I think I prefer ambiance in 10.04, the window buttons were much nicer
<hamitron> I wish windows wouldn't move down and to the right each time I left click on them
<hamitron> seems to be just the top bar
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/82D6UjGZh6L
<SuperMatt> that's pretty sweek
<SuperMatt> *sweet
<ali1234> i'm going to tweak the theme a bit to fix the excessively dark menu bar. but first i need to finish this website that i've been procrastinating on for the past month
<ali1234> possibly try to hack back in the old system menu
<ali1234> interesting. the windows signature page requires silverlight for the demo video, but the so.cl demo video is html5...
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> czajkowski: PROD!!!!!
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrro
<davmor2> czajkowski: how was you're lazy weekend :D
<diplo> Rather quiet here again today
<diplo> It's odd feeling that people actually have work to do ?!?
<diplo> :)
<ali1234> i've written 10 lines of code for that website so i guess now i can go back to procrastinating
<diplo> I really must get on with doing some work with Joomla tnoight
<diplo> Rather than watching telly all night
<dogmatic69> Since yesterday strange things are happening with workspaces. All of a sudden things like replying to a mail is opening a window in another space, instead of the one evolution is in (and always has been in)
<dogmatic69> anyone got an idea on how to pin some app to a specific space?
<popey> dogmatic69: is your evo window hanging over a workspace boundary when you open a new window?
<dogmatic69> popey: evo window?
<popey> evolution
<dogmatic69> oh
<dogmatic69> it is just maximised
<davmor2> dogmatic69: what screen are you on when you open the window and how are you opening it?
<dogmatic69> what screen?
<dogmatic69> clicking 'reply' opens the window
<dogmatic69> I have 2x workspaces [   | x ][ y |   ] evolution is in x, reply opens in y
<dogmatic69> dual monitor, 2x workspaces
<davmor2> dogmatic69: no idea then I'm afraid
<ali1234> i thought it was thunderbird now?
<popey> dogmatic69: i get that if the main window overhangs the next workspace/screen
<dogmatic69> popey: I could understand that if the window was not maxed. Maybe there is a bug in unity or something?
<popey> perhaps
<dogmatic69> def not about overhang. Just made the window 400x400 in the centre and the same thing
<dogmatic69> also I have just noticed. I have [ X |   ] and click the icon to make the window smaller (not full size) and it goes to [   | x ]
<dogmatic69> things are just seeming very random
<davmor2> dogmatic69: have you been playing with that system if so I suggest you write a bug with exactly what you've done to it, it sounds like the mods may have triggered something in those settings has triggered an underlying bug maybe (corner case bug)
<dogmatic69> davmor2: I only installed the unity config app and changed to 2 workspaces instead of 4
<davmor2> dogmatic69: indeed but it could be the way that the tool set this that is triggering an issue I don't see it here with any app of gnome (please note I am not using evolution)
<dogmatic69> ye, I have not noticed with any other app
<popey> bug 874146
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 874146 in compiz (Ubuntu) "New windows open on the wrong monitor" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874146
<dogmatic69> popey: exactly \o/
<DJones> Heh, nice registration for a plumbers http://goo.gl/r8JgK
<daubers> dogmatic69: I've notice that if you have unbalanced screen sizes and an app that is slightly bigger than the smaller one, if you drag it to the smallest screen and hit maximise it will jump to the larger monitor
<dogmatic69> daubers: they are both 23" 1980ish x whatever. also using twin view so its 'one screen'
<daubers> dogmatic69: Ah :) Mine is my littl 14" laptop connected to a 21" monitor
<dogmatic69> that bug popey dug up is pretty much identical. and 33 users affected
<dogmatic69> bah.. nothing beats dealing with 'IT' people
<daubers> dogmatic69: Having fnu?
<dogmatic69> so much...
<dogmatic69> daubers: "head of it" send file.7z with link to download 7zip. "Why do I need that, I already have a program for zip files"
<dogmatic69> o.o
<daubers> dogmatic69: Nice :)
<dogmatic69> then setup uniserver (wamp) to run a site. same "head of IT" basically said, I cant view it over the network when I disconnect the network cable
<diplo> dogmatic69: I had to IT Managers like that at the last place I worked.
<diplo> two*
<dogmatic69> diplo: If I actually working with someone like that it would end up outside in the park with boxing gloves
<hamitron> wouldn't you want it to be bare fists, to cause them some damage?
<dogmatic69> that or a bat
<hamitron> yeh :)
<dogmatic69> even my mother knows what 7zip is
<diplo> I ended up leaving dogmatic69
<hamitron> it came after 6zip?
<diplo> Company has recently gone under
<dogmatic69> diplo: don't blame you.
<dogmatic69> hamitron: ye, its the new version
<dogmatic69> cant wait for 8zip, that is going to be good...
<daubers> \o/ oggcampl hotel booking altered
<dogmatic69> diplo: is it just me, or do these 'IT people' always seem to some how pull the wool over the eyes of boss/ceo/almost everyone in the office that they are some kind of computing god?
<daubers> Missus fancies a weekend away
<diplo> Defo, they can talk the talk because they are not techie I guess
<diplo> Guy who is running IT where I worked now, sort of knows phone systems
<diplo> And that's it, he has been there just shy of 2 years
<dogmatic69> :D
<diplo> And still hasn't asked for one password for ANY of about 70 physical servers
<hamitron> diplo, at least it means it continue to run? ;)
<hamitron> continues*
<dogmatic69> I would not consider myself any sort of network/admin/database/<fancy_term> specialist. but so long as there is a connection and I can view google.com I can figure it out
<ali1234> why you sending 7zip files? 7zip totally sucks
<dogmatic69> ali1234: ye, files 40% smaller than .zip totally suck
 * hamitron tends to just use .zip anyway
<ali1234> 7zip is lol
<dogmatic69> it was 120mb vs 200mb.
<hamitron> ali1234, what you use? .xz?
<ali1234> the linux command line implementation deletes the input archive when unpacking because it wants to be like gunzip
<dogmatic69> for a small file I would use .zip, unless its *nix then .gz
<ali1234> but it isn't because gzip actually handles streams
<ali1234> and also gzip has a way to override the deletion behaviour - 7zip does not
<gord> for doing what i want 7zip to do, that is, compress a file. it is very far away from sucking
<dogmatic69> gord: exactly
<ali1234> if you want to compress a file, and you don't want to keep a copy of the archive when decompressing, then it can just about handle that
<hamitron> so what would you use ali1234?
<ali1234> zip or gzip depending on audience
<hamitron> not bzip?
<ali1234> but the main reason i use archivers is because i want to keep multiple files together with permissions
<ali1234> something that 7zip totally sucks at... zip too, but i only use zip if i'm sending stuff to windows users
<hamitron> yeh, that is main reason I often use zip
<hamitron> too lazy to worry about different platforms
<ali1234> most people don't even do that
<ali1234> gmail's "download all attachments as a zip file" is a life saver
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I am not sure about the archive stuff you are talking about. I would think it is safe to say that 99% of people just want xyz file to be smaller.
<ali1234> when someone emails me 50 jpegs attached to one email
<ali1234> dogmatic69: no, you're totally wrong, 99% of people just want to make 50 files into 1 file and do not car if there is zero compression
<hamitron> so tar? ;)
<ali1234> basically yes
<ali1234> sometimes i don't even bother to gzip it
<hamitron> gzip I find to be ok for compression, but without major overhead
<hamitron> so i tend to use that
<hamitron> also, because j is not a char I like typing
<ali1234> i just had sandwiches with precooked bacon for lunch
<ali1234> it was like a ready made supermarket sandwich except i had to make it myself
<hamitron> :D
 * hamitron had cheese and cucumber sandwich
<dogmatic69> should be cucumber and lettuce
<dogmatic69> washed down with some tea :D
<hamitron> I had tea
<hamitron> so nearly there
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> ubuntu will run on comps with 256MB memory?
<AlanBell> no, but it will walk
<hamitron> haha
<AlanBell> possibly jog slowly
<hamitron> so what about 512MB?
<ali1234> server will
<ali1234> ubuntu will run on a machine with 64mb if you give it enough swap
<hamitron> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=976
<ali1234> it will take several hours to boot though
<hamitron> desktop version says 256MB
<hamitron> so wondering if I should try it on my latpop
<AlanBell> yeah, less than that and the installer complains about it
<AlanBell> you can install it and then take memory away
<hamitron> well
<ali1234> not if you use debootstrap
<ali1234> that doesn't care. at all.
<hamitron> I'm thinking more about the end experience
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> you won't enjoy it
<ali1234> don't bother with less than 2GB on 32bit or 4GB on 64bit
<AlanBell> fitting lots of ram to a laptop is probably cheaper than you might expect
<hamitron> laptop is maxed out at 512MB
<hamitron> sadly
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> laptops are silly
<AlanBell> what laptop?
<hamitron> dell inspiron 8100
<hamitron> but I am enjoying ubuntu 12.04 in vmware, with 3GB memory
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> I used to have one of those!
<hamitron> I got a Latitude C810 too
<AlanBell> with the big yellow pad things
<hamitron> I got the full range of colours
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> black, grey, purple, yellow, navy
<AlanBell> yeah, I fitted the yellow ones as I was doing Lotus stuff at the time
<hamitron> iirc
<hamitron> :D
<AlanBell> best laptop screen ever, 1600x1200 4:3 aspect ratio
<hamitron> I'd love to upgrade, but laptops with decent resolution displays cost a fair bit
<hamitron> aye
<ali1234> do you know why?
<hamitron> I've upgraded to a geforce 4 :)
<ali1234> it's because they're supposed to be portable
<hamitron> I must say, my laptop would not be so great for a smaller female or something
<hamitron> if you have to move around a lot
<ali1234> there is really no point in 1600x1200 unless the display is like 19"
<hamitron> they so is!
<hamitron> there*
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> then you've got a laptop that basically can't be moved from it's desk
<hamitron> 15" is fine
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I wouldn't go bigger though
<ali1234> no, 15" 1600x1200 is not worth it at all, there's no way you can tell the difference if you are using it normally
<ali1234> by normally i mean your head is further than one foot away from the screen
<hamitron> 2 cd drives is nice too
<hamitron> I find it nice when drawing electronic circuits ali1234
<diplo> ali1234: I've always owned/run laptops with 1920x1080
<diplo> D820 / E range aswell latitudes
<diplo> For your experience it may not work, but the last 7-8 years it's what I've had
<diplo> And I wouldn't like smaller res
<hamitron> diplo, is that 17"?
<diplo> nah 15
<hamitron> I could live with that
<hamitron> looking at it
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> professional nvidia graphics
<hamitron> :-o
<DJones> ali1234: I had a 15" 1600x1200 laptop for about 10 years, the screen size was worth it for me beause there was enough screen space for all the apps I wanted onscreen  and viewable at the same time, yes it was heavy, but it was used every day of taht 10 years & moved around from home to office to clients 5 days a week, teh weight wasn't a noticable concern
<hamitron> I don't get how anyone can live with anything less than 1024 pixels high :/
<hamitron> and widescreens seem to have just kicked that into touch
<DJones> I'd still be using it if I could have got a memory & graphics card upgrade for it
<hamitron> unless you go upper range
<hamitron> found this with desktop monitors too
<hamitron> I basically have to go 1920x1200
<DJones> hamitron: It took me a while to get used to a 1600x900 after dropping down from the 1600x1200
<hamitron> a struggle with 320mm height limit :/
<hamitron> ah yeh, there is 1600x900
<hamitron> but still feels like a downgrade
<hamitron> my CRT does 1280x1024
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> 15" 1600x1200 is 133dpi, which is basically higher than anything but an iphone 4
<hamitron> ali1234, and you are saying more is not better?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> that is like saying we can all use atoms instead of core i
<ali1234> er, no
<hamitron> we could.... but not as good for some things
<ali1234> i'm saying you can't tell the difference
<ali1234> the only reason you can tell is because the UI is all smaller if you use windows
<hamitron> my sisters laptop is 1280x768..... looks a lot nicer than mine for colours, but not as detailed
<ali1234> if you want to cram more on the screen just make the font smaller and it will work fine on a 1280x1024 @ 15"
<hamitron> so better for media
<hamitron> yeh, I could live with 1280x1024, agreed
<hamitron> but 1280x768.....
<DJones> My point wasn't about the dpi, it was purely that everything would fit nicely on screen at a readable resolution and without individual windows being eitehr too small or needing to be scrolled
<ali1234> as i said, just change the font size
<hamitron> on a serious note, I can't work out how to change all these settings on ubuntu 12.04 is unity
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> 1600x1200 15" is *much* too small to be readable
<hamitron> with unity
<hamitron> ali1234, make the fonts bigger? ;D
<ali1234> hamitron: you have to install gnome-tweak-tool
<hamitron> ah, I remember now
<hamitron> you told me last time
<hamitron> but I was having stability issues
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron: a normal person would make the fonts bigger on a 15" 1600x1200 yes. or more likely they'd just change the resolution to 800x600 and then wonder why it looks really blurry
<ali1234> actually that would not look blurry because /2
<ali1234> but you know what i mean. i;m sure you've seen people doing that
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I still think a higher resolution gives you more detail and options
<hamitron> you can move your face closer to see more detail
<hamitron> I've really liked it when using CAD software, and a bit of blender
<ali1234> get a 42" TV
<ali1234> sit 2 feet away from it
<hamitron> but at end of the day, phones have got more dpi over the years
<hamitron> so why can't laptops?
<hamitron> we are actually reducing the spec, and lowering the price
<ali1234> as i said, 133dpi is more than anything other than an iphone 4, which has a stupidly high res
<hamitron> what does android run at?
<hamitron> 800x480?
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> that is a higher dpi than my laptop then
<DJones> hamitron: Are still using the old Dell, mine was 10 years old when it retired
<gord> pretty sure the ps vita is much higher than 133 dpi
<ali1234> yeah, typical android is about 200dpi
<hamitron> DJones, my geforce 2 died :/
<ali1234> iphone 4 is like 360dpi
<ali1234> or 4s or whatever
<DJones> hamitron: Shame, mine is still working, but not been used for about a year
<hamitron> DJones, not a shame.... good excuse to upgrade to a geforce 4 ;)
<DJones> Heh
<ali1234> i can't see individual pixels on my phone
<diplo> ali1234: As i said I ran 1920 on my 15" screen D820
<hamitron> I bought a latitude c810 to test too
<diplo> It was fine for work, and is still fine for home.
<hamitron> that is my dedicated scalextric comp now
<diplo> My eyesight is perfectly happy with it, others do complain admittedly, but it's what I work with daily and prefer it.
<ali1234> diplo: why wouldn't it be fine? the point is that 1280x1024 would also have been fine for work and home, and cost a lot less
<hamitron> tbh ali1234, you can see the dots on a 1280x1024
<hamitron> 1600x1200 makes them smaller
<hamitron> :))
<diplo> It's not my money, and I don't agree with you. But also not going to argue :)
<ali1234> if it's 17" and you are under 1 foot away, then yes, you can see the dots, just about
<hamitron> both are "fine" ofc
<hamitron> but is 1280x768 fine?
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> if the screen is 10"? yes, it's absolutely fine
<hamitron> and 15"?
<ali1234> it's borderline
<hamitron> agree
<DJones> At the end of the day, its what works for you
<hamitron> if I have to use 1280x768, I will consider one of them 12.1" netbooks
<hamitron> indeed
<hamitron> Pentium 3 is showing its age now though :/
<hamitron> any idea how to stop windows moving down and to the right when I left click on the top bar?
<hamitron> this is just frustrating now
<ali1234> use metacity
<hamitron> I may as well just install what I want, than use the default install.... at this rate
<hamitron> ;D
<ali1234> yes
<directhex> "use metacity" isn't a very useful answer, since that also means "don't use unity at all"
<ali1234> kind of defeats the purpose of a preconfigured distribution but there you go
<directhex> since unity is a plugin for compiz
<ali1234> yes, i know
<ali1234> but the bugs are in compiz, not unity
<hamitron> so is it a bug that will be fixed later?
<ali1234> so merely getting rid of unity isn't enough
<directhex> hamitron, i don't see the issue you describe.
<hamitron> left click on the bar at the top of a window
<hamitron> and it moves down and right slightly
<hamitron> on each click
<Laney> rice milk is surprisingly nice
<directhex> hmm, nope
<directhex> Laney, it's not milk if it's not squeezed from a bovine animal! it's just an impostor!
<hamitron> directhex, really?
<directhex> hamitron, really. i'm wondering how sensitive your mouse is, e.g. if you're trying to click, but are dragging slightly
<ali1234> make a video
<ali1234> have you reported it btw?
<hamitron> I haven't
<ali1234> or even looked on launchpad?
<hamitron> I wasn't sure if I was just newbing it
<ali1234> if you need to ask...
<popey> there was a bug some time back where windows would creep cross the screen
<ali1234> there were several actually
<directhex> i remember seeing compiz do that, like, 5 years ago
<ali1234> but most of them got fixed
<directhex> back when it was on Xgl!
<ali1234> i remember seeing it 6 months ago
<ali1234> bug 770160
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 888039 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #770160 Gradual degradation in desktop performance." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888039
<ali1234> bug 986063
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974242 in compiz (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #986063 Compiz edge detection code is moving windows against my will" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974242
<ali1234> hamitron: also make a new user and test that
<directhex> yeah, that's always good practice
<directhex> excellent point
<hamitron> hmmmm
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/811212
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 811212 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Compiz's Wobbly Windows causes window creep" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/914529
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 914529 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Windows creep to another workspace/desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bigcalm> Anybody here done much work with sockets?
<ali1234> sure
<hamitron> how I set the password for the new account in the GUI? ;)
<ali1234> you have to click "account disabled"
<ali1234> then it asks you for a password
 * hamitron facedesks
<diplo> bigcalm: Socket calls ?
<ali1234> senseful i know
<hamitron> ty
<bigcalm> diplo: yes. In PHP, but might be generic my problem
<diplo> yeah we use them for work unfortunately :)
<bigcalm> That was horrible. But my problem might be generic. That's better
<ali1234> socket calls in php?
<bigcalm> Yes, socket calls in PHP
<hamitron> brb, switching to new user
<bigcalm> A client send a packet of data to my service. The 1st to bytes of the packet contain the packet length. So I do two reads. One for 2 bytes and another for the length of the packet itself.
<bigcalm> This works just fine, expect I cannot receive a 2nd packet sent later
<bigcalm> I fear something is waiting for more data or a special character
<ali1234> fun times
<ali1234> this is why most people don't write their own socket code
<bigcalm> No choice. There's no public code for what I'm doing
<bigcalm> I was wondering if this was a generic problem that others have faced
<ali1234> it most certainly is
<bigcalm> And know how to fix it ;)
<ali1234> that too
<bigcalm> In here?
<ali1234> what you've done is define the most simple possible data link layer possible
<ali1234> read a byte then read n bytes where n is the byte you read
<ali1234> then repeat
<ali1234> this fails if even one byte goes missing
<ali1234> once it is out of sync it is unlikely to ever get in sync again
<bigcalm> Ug
<ali1234> there are multiple ways of dealing with this problem. you might have heard of some of them: PPP, SLIP, TCP...
<diplo> What you actually trying to do bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> diplo: A payment service (PayPoint) connect to my socket service and send a payment message for me to manage and respond to
<diplo> We use TCPServer which calls a bash script basically which calls our old software
<diplo> Sounds a similar setup as us, so we use http://cr.yp.to/ucspi-tcp/tcpserver.html
<diplo> on the *nix box which listens on a set port
<ali1234> bigcalm: is it a TCP socket? UDP socket? ICMP packets?
<bigcalm> ali1234: TCP
<diplo> When it goes through it calls a script which calls our app and returns the info
<ali1234> then you don't need to worry about bytes going missig. you just have a bug in your code
<bigcalm> diplo: sounds a little more sane
<ali1234> i suspect you are having a problem because you try to read n bytes assuming that 1 message = 1 packet
<ali1234> but all n bytes are not available
<bigcalm> ali1234: glad to hear it, just don't know what's buggy :)
<ali1234> you are checking how much you actually read after each read call?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> I'm limiting how much I read anyway
<ali1234> limiting is not good enough
<ali1234> you can also get LESS than you asked for
<diplo> We use this setup for all our E-Commerce sites at the mo to read and write to the old system
<diplo> But have wrote our own socketcall server for our new system
<ali1234> in a good language that would cause an exception when you read past the end of the array. but php is not a good language so who knows
<diplo> lol ali1234, do you like anything :)
<ali1234> yes. i like python
<bigcalm> Took a while for the PHP bashing to start
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> I'll take a look at using tcpserver
<ali1234> i like poached eggs
<diplo> :D
<ali1234> i like black tea with two sugars
<diplo> I like things that do what I want them to do, if not I find something else I guess
<diplo> I like python for some things, perl for others
<diplo> PHP for others
<bigcalm> Time for a cuppa tea
<bigcalm> And some paracetamol
<diplo> Got to take my sprogs to swimming lessons in 20 mins
<diplo> Not sure my head can take it
<ali1234> you mean... you've got to drop the kids off at the pool?
<ali1234> i never understood that joke for ages
<ali1234> i mean it seems like a reasonable thing to do
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Kids love there lessons, the noise is a bit to much though
<bigcalm> ali1234: it's a joke? Toilet humour?
<ali1234> yes
 * popey pokes bigcalm with a pm
 * bigcalm notices and eeks
<matti> :>
<bigcalm> So do I try and fix this 99% working service, or make it into a standalone instance and use tcpserver?
<ali1234> just fix it
<bigcalm> Next question: how? :)
<diplo> Fix it if you are that far into the code, tcp service didn't take us that long to write but we had done something similar before
<diplo> So think how long it's worthwhile doing/trying
<bigcalm> Quite
<bigcalm> This is a bad week as we're off on holiday next week
<bigcalm> Taking holiday is not good for one's stress levels
<diplo> Don't work with anyone else you can pass it on to ?
<bigcalm> Newp
<bigcalm> I am the company these days
<diplo> Well not your problem if it's holiday.. taken me two years but I've nearly got out of the worrying part
<diplo> It's all I did at the last job, would even log in from holiday to help people
<diplo> I now finish at 5 99% of the time and I don't think about work till 8 the following morning
<diplo> Still don't like the job but at least I'm better with in myself
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> I like the job I have and try to separate home and work life. But after all these years, I still don't always manage
<diplo> Going to update my CV over next month or so, ready to start applying June/July.
<diplo> Get my bonus in August and then go at it full tilt till I get a job.
<bigcalm> Good luck!
<diplo> Just want to get back to 90% sysadmin work
<diplo> And the rest doing anything else that's chucked at me
<diplo> Don't want to develop full time
<ali1234> hmm oh yeah i just realised... facebook floats on friday, microsoft makes competing site on monday... facebook shares now worth less than the floatation value
<bigcalm> A blip?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: sorted out cds
<diplo> See you later guys, off to a bunch of screaming kids
<bigcalm> Toodles
<ali1234> well i thought it was a blip on friday but now microsoft has basically done an exact copy of google+ it does make facebook look a bit dated
<hamitron> my drifting windows seems to be only in vmware workstation
<ali1234> doesn't microsoft already own part of facebook?
<bigcalm> Any soothing/ambient music suggestions for me to play on spotify?
<czajkowski> the frames
<czajkowski> always the frames
<czajkowski> especially the set list
<czajkowski> or my favourite song Star
<ali1234> bigcalm: boards of canada
 * bigcalm nods
<ali1234> btw is there spotify for precise yet?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: sounds nice but if there are words I get distracted
<bigcalm> ali1234: I've been using it just fine for many months
<czajkowski> bigcalm: hello goldfish
<bigcalm> czajkowski: erm, hi :)
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> Drawn the curtains to blocks out the wonderful sun shine
<czajkowski> what
<czajkowski> no
<bigcalm> Pondering hiding in the dark bedroom for a while
<czajkowski> sunshine on ones face is fantastic
<bigcalm> Not with a headache
<DJones> bigcalm: Cure for a headache = dihidacodine , ibrufen
<DJones> Its working for me at the minute
<bigcalm> Paracetamol, water and time
<bigcalm> I'll kill the music for a bit as well
<czajkowski> bigcalm: cure for headache is fresh air and walk in the sun
<DJones> AlanBell: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20120521#feature Report on accessibility in linux, seem to rememebr you've had some interest in this
<AlanBell> czajkowski: oh, ok great
<czajkowski> there are gonna be about 140 people there
<czajkowski> in theory
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> I might still try to find an excuse to end up in London this week
<AlanBell> DJones: thanks, nice writeup
<DJones> AlanBell: The only bit that made me blink was when it said he'd been able to do a full install with his eyes shut
<AlanBell> I can do that
<DJones> Including partitioning, that sounds scary if you've already got another OS there
<AlanBell> as long as I let it auto-find the location and keyboard
<AlanBell> partitioning is ok (well not massively more scary than with eyes)
<AlanBell> the map and typeahead widget is broken, the keyboard auto-selection is impossible (do you have a key with a symbol that looks like ^ on it etc)
<AlanBell> but if you are plugged into a working network connection that bit is done for you by magic
<AlanBell> everyone should try an install with no eyes, just press ctrl+s when you hear the drums
<shauno> heh, I can't get my keymap working properly with my eyes open :/  but I've done a headless install with keyboard and headphones.  it was a very educational experience
<AlanBell> was that with the GUI ubiquity installer or the alternate CD?
<shauno> the install would have been over a year ago, it was still a two-panel gnome
<shauno> (the keymap woes are simply because my preferred keymap simply doesn't exist)
<DJones> If I get chance, I'm going to give it a chance on an old machine just to see how easy it is to use
<DJones> Why is that a clock at work will never gain time? They always lose time, may only be a couple of minutes a week, but its frustrating
<popey> The clocks at DVLA are radio controlled. but the building is like a faraday cage, so frequently you'll catch them out of the corner of your eye as they re-sync. it's very offputting
<popey> as time spins by at an alarming rate
<davmor2> bigcalm: you could use my patented cure all for your head ache only one side effect!
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> Thankfully the headache subsided a wee while ago now
<bigcalm> The DVLA work outside of time itself
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/yfYlN.jpg ?
<popey> âº
<davmor2> http://www.confused.com/news-views/infographics/cost-of-fuel-breakdown-petrol-pains?MediaCode=806&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter21May
<gordonjcp> I never really got my head around Google+
<gordonjcp> just poking at it there
<gordonjcp> I seem to have a couple of thousand followers, none of whom I know
<ali1234> are you famous?
<gordonjcp> many of them are apparently from places like University of Thirunavananthapuram"
<gordonjcp> ali1234: not as far as I know
<gordonjcp> I'm sure someone would have told me if I was
<gordonjcp> it's an interesting philosophical conundrum
<ali1234> a lot of people don't "get" g+
<davmor2> gordonjcp: yeah think of it as a facebook/twitter hybrid, so anyone can follow you but you don't need to follow them like twitter, but with the whole friend and feature set like facebook
<gordonjcp> I mean
<gordonjcp> I could actually be really famous
<gordonjcp> not sure for what, horrible unlistenable electronic music possibly
<gordonjcp> but because I don't watch TV I might not know about it
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> you think it would be possible to be on TV and not know about it?
<ali1234> hidden cameras aren't that good
<gordonjcp> well if you weren't looking for "live" video
<gordonjcp> you could probably get enough still images off flickr, facebook and so on
<gordonjcp> youtube
<ali1234> not enough to make a tv show worth watching
<ali1234> you know how every one thinks TV is fake? well it's even more fake than that
<ali1234> even when it isn't fake, it's still totally fake
<ali1234> filing a 5 minute bit takes a day of endlessly shooting the same thing over and over again
<ali1234> you never know that. you might be internet famous in japan or something
<ali1234> but TV? no
<ali1234> anyway the thing about G+ that makes it different from twitter and facebook is nobody is following people they don't care about just so they can get them to follow them back
<ali1234> because it doesn't work
<ali1234> like facebook has this problem: you don't want to "friend" someone you don't know cos it looks weird
<ali1234> and they have to friend you back. the etiquette of the whole thing is a drag
<ali1234> so on facebook i'm friends with a bunch of people i went to school with and have not talked to since. and i don't care about anything they post
<ali1234> they friended me so i friended them out of politeness. they only wanted a higher friend count anyway
<ali1234> those sites are essentially write-only because nobody ever actually reads the stuff people write
<ali1234> G+ is different however, and you are encouraged to follow people you find interesting or entertaining (like on twitter) except it has no silly 140 character limit, and proper conversations (following a conversation on twitter is impossible)
<ali1234> so there in lies the difference: facebook and twitter are set up to attract people who talk but don't listen. G+ is set up for people who can do both.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Medium format fun - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/05/21/medium-format-fun/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=medium-format-fun
<AlanBell> sudo halt
<AlanBell> oh noes, I nearly broke the internet
 * AlanBell trys again in a different window
<matti> Lol
<matti> AlanBell: ;-)
 * AlanBell successfully turns off a raspberry pi
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think you summed up social networking pretty well there
<ali1234> AlanBell: :)
<AlanBell> the only compelling thing about twitter is the userbase
<ali1234> i didn't even mention how microsoft cloning G+ with their new sockle thing in fact legitimises G+ and makes facebook look outdated
<AlanBell> I must have missed the memo on this sockle thing
<ali1234> http://so.cl
<ali1234> it was released completely out of the blue this morning
<ali1234> though i doubt doing it on the working day after facebook IPO was a coincidence
<AlanBell> so how much of debian and gnome should I install on this raspberry pi
<ali1234> gnome-session-fallback
<matti> AlanBell: Do you still use BB?
<AlanBell> matti: not really
<matti> AlanBell: I have found somw brand new things at home to give away.
<matti> AlanBell: Cool then ;-)
<AlanBell> my daughter will have a blackberry handset when theopensourcerer gets his Galaxy S3
<AlanBell> blackberry perl, on giffgaff
<matti> Ah
<AlanBell> probably won't pay the Â£3 a month for blackberry services though
<matti> ;-)
<matti> I will put it on eBay and then donate simewhere then ;-)
<AlanBell> good plan
<matti> ;-)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: did you fix your battery indicator icon?
<AlanBell> mine has gone wrong
<popey> mine seems okay today
 * bigcalm eyes the world at large
 * popey tickles BigRedS 
<popey> damnit
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> Should I be jealous now? :P
<popey> yes
<popey> :D
 * bigcalm drums fingers
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<czajkowski> AlanBell: nope
 * davmor2 flicks elastic bands at popey for not tickling bigcalm first
<MartijnVdS> Hm
<MartijnVdS> My neighbor has procured (a) an elephant or (b) a vuvuzela
<gord> (c) vuvuzela loving elephant that does the hoovering
<MartijnVdS> gord: :(
<ali1234> has anyone ever done a vuvuzela design for reprap/makerbot?
<popey> haha
<popey> wouldn't it leak air?
<ali1234> because if they haven't i'm totally going to do it
<ali1234> i don't think so
<MartijnVdS> A whole new world of annoyance
<ali1234> maker faires will never be the same again
<MartijnVdS> Everyone will hate you
<ali1234> i know that's the beauty of it
<MartijnVdS> "Who's that? Is he famous?" "Infamous."
<ali1234> better to be infamous than forgotten
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/101653798591830993272/posts/LRuz6GDy6e9 <- this guy already working on it. followed.
<C-S-B> Any reason the default apt-get install phpmyadmin doesnt work?
<popey> missed sudo?
<C-S-B> Not that simple :P
<C-S-B> its installed the files are there
<C-S-B> basically, I'm not convinced its taking into account the config in /etc/apache2/config.d
<C-S-B> as the logs are tell me the file doesnt exist in /var/www
<MartijnVdS> other vhost?
<C-S-B> which it shouldnt
<BigRedS> config.d or conf.d? only conf.d is included automatically
 * AlanBell installs mono on the raspberry pi
<MartijnVdS> Poor Pi
 * bigcalm waddles in
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: had a good meal? :)
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Chicken meat and chips shared with Hayley
 * bigcalm vibrates popey
<MartijnVdS> ...
<bigcalm> I think I can hear endermen
<bigcalm> Most odd
<MartijnVdS> they're coming for you
<DJones> bigcalm: If you think thats odd, I woke up 2 nights ago having a nightmare about being chased down caverns & tunnels....
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> DJones: I've had that a couple of times
<DJones> Heh, its not good
<bigcalm> I killed an enderman but got nothing but xp for it :(
<popey> minecraft time!
<C-S-B> BigRedS, conf.d
<C-S-B> I would have thought a default install would work...
<BigRedS> yeah, it does on a default apache
<BigRedS> but you may have config of your own getting in the way
<C-S-B> I've made no changes
<BigRedS> though it sounds like teh Alias isn't being honoured
<C-S-B> fresh server install with lamp
<C-S-B> then apt-get install phpmyadmin
<diplo> evening all
<diplo> bigcalm: Get sockets fixed ?
<bigcalm> diplo: yep :) I was missing a do while loop
<diplo> Cool \o/
 * popey hugs bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Was fun
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> popey: wifey and kids coming to oggcamp this year?
<popey> hah, no chance
<C-S-B> I really see no reason why apache2 isnt picking up the phpmyadmin file in conf.d
<C-S-B> Any tips?
<C-S-B> I'm getting File does not exist: /var/www/phpMyAdmin
<bigcalm> popey: oh dear, sharing a room with Daviey again? ;)
<popey> haha
<popey> if he comes âº
<czajkowski> choooo choooo
<mattt> C-S-B: contents of that config file commented perhaps ?
<C-S-B> Which config would you like to see?
<C-S-B> mattt, ^
<C-S-B> mattt, it's the default: http://pastebin.com/3gs88KVx
<C-S-B> thats /etc/apache2/conf.d/phpmyadmin.conf
<BigRedS> C-S-B: are you visiting .../phpMyAdmin or .../phpmyadmin ?
<BigRedS> 'cause there's no alias in there for the camelcase version
<C-S-B> oh balls.
<C-S-B> if this is it, i'm going to disappear off quietly
<C-S-B> <-linux admin.
<BigRedS> haha
<C-S-B> Thanks, big fail. :( its working.
<BigRedS> we've all done it :)
<BigRedS> (probably)
<C-S-B> I play look after centos at work, thats my excuse
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> centos, the notoriously case-insensitive distro? ;)
<mattt> BigRedS: nice work!
<BigRedS> mattt: haha, I've seen enough people do that for it to do that that it really should be my first assumption :)
<BigRedS> whoa, that was a bad sentence
<BigRedS> mattt: haha, I've seen enough people do it that it really should be my first assumption :)
<BigRedS> is there a command for adding a long list of users to a group?
<BigRedS> (I know I can write a for loop but I find it hard to believe there's not been a better solution written in the past 40 years)
<mattt> just open up /etc/group and manually paste it in :P
<BigRedS> yeah, that feels similarly inelegant but may have to do
<mattt> for user in users; do usermod -G <group> $user; done
<mattt> assuming -G is the switch you want :P
<BigRedS> well -a -G
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I wanted <cmd> <group> <list of users>
<BigRedS> I'm now having fun and games with user naming conventions anyway
<MonsterKiller> Hey, having trouble with xchat in 12.04. Every time i start it, it seems to have lost all its settings except the server i added to the network list. The nicks/ident ect are reset, the network list opens even though i told it not to last time etc
<MonsterKiller> anyone know what could be wrong?
<MonsterKiller> i installed it through the software center
<Azelphur> how do you install a gtk 3.x theme from gnome-look in 12.04?
<Azelphur> I stuck it in ~/.themes but it doesn't show up in the appearance dialog
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-22
<ali1234> Azelphur: gnome-tweak-tool
<Azelphur> fun, I ended up using ubuntu tweak
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Heading Towards 0.2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/heading-towards-0-2/
<kat_> Hi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04: Parentally Precise - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/ubuntu-12-04-parentally-precise/
<AlanBell> morning people
<Azelphur> AlanBell: morning, did you see the news on phoronix? :D
<AlanBell> about text tracking zoom in wayland?
<Azelphur> yep :D
<Azelphur> pc going to good use already hehe
 * popey points Azelphur at soreau 
 * Azelphur knows :D
<soreau> :-)
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ everything is GO again
<diplo> popey: Can you say something in bitfolk ive just added an ignore for joins/parts in irssi and i wonder if it's ignored everything
<diplo> :)
<diplo> ta
<popey> woohoo! dropped a disk from my btrfs array
<popey> whilst online and under active use
<DJones> popey: Was that done as a test to see what happened, or just because you could
<popey> because I need to juggle disks about
<popey> wanted to make sure I could
<popey> diplo: done
<diplo> ta, I'd say /ignore is set then :D
<Nafallo> morning!
<diplo> morning, that was enthusiastic Nafallo :)
<Nafallo> so is my trippel expresso. sooo needed this morning.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
<diplo> Moaning :)
<diplo> T Minus 3 minutes!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I thought is was meauning?
<Azelphur> is that the private launch again?
<TheOpenSourcerer> until what diplo
<diplo> Well I'm moaning, kids wore me out last night, and woke me up at 5am this morning
<diplo> spaceX
<diplo> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
<Nafallo> breakfast time!
<Nafallo> early at work, so yeah...
<TheOpenSourcerer> what is spaceX diplo?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apart from a rocket that is?
<diplo> Private rocket, first one to visit the Space Station
<Nafallo> sabdfl's fork of Xorg?
<diplo> heh
<Nafallo> oh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - This is the unmanned one right?
<diplo> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<AlanBell> this one is a robot, but I think they have one that will take 7 people
<Azelphur> i bet they are all sitting there thinking "It better work this time" lol
<diplo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> late again!
<diplo> 10 seconds.....
<diplo> It's going up
<Azelphur> woo, working xD
<Azelphur> inb4 it blows up
<TheOpenSourcerer> where was it launched from?
<AlanBell> cape canaveral
<Azelphur> vehicle is supersonic o.O
<AlanBell> looks like it is working well this time
<Azelphur> indeed, looks like they've got it :D
<Azelphur> there goes the detach
<MooDoo> hello all
<Azelphur> hello
<Azelphur> haha, only going 6710mph
<Azelphur> 7605 now \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bring on Sabre - there has to be a better way to get into space than that. http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html
<diplo> has it been tried yet TheOpenSourcerer ?
<Azelphur> up to 9000mph now xD
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have built a test engine yes. In oxford.
<Azelphur> clearly needs to go faster \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cools incoming air from 1000'c to -110'c in <100ms or something mad like that.
<diplo> jeesh
<Azelphur> 11,184mph :o
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782
<TheOpenSourcerer> "The message is that Britain has the next step beyond the jet engine; that we can reduce the world to four hours"
<TheOpenSourcerer> plunge the intake gases to minus 140C in just 1/100th of a second.
<Azelphur> yay clapping people :D
<diplo> heh it's in Orbit, good work
<Azelphur> they almost have as many monitors as I do
<diplo> Just going to have a read TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> then i suppose i better to do some work
<diplo> :P
<Azelphur> that awkward moment when you realise you have more monitors than the average NASA employee
 * diplo is using 4 atm
<Azelphur> same xD
<andylockran> anyone else watching spacex.com/webcast ?
<Azelphur> yep, that's what we are all talking about
<diplo> heh
<andylockran> was scrolled up
<andylockran> looks like someone could have tidied up the cabling...
<Azelphur> haha, better cabling than I have :x
<andylockran> is this not anchorman 2?
<Azelphur> suddenly huge technology downgrade
<Azelphur> you can see the budget cuts lol
<andylockran> their twitter account fail :
<andylockran> NASAKennedy #dragonlaunch successful - Spacecraft is not in orbit after on-time launch. twitpic.com/9nx6mo
<Azelphur> lmao
<Azelphur> they deleted it :P
<hoover> morning all
<Azelphur> guess that's all xD
<diplo> heh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers has given up with Thunderbird and it's wacky SSL cert oddities and gone back to mutt
<bigcalm> Morning
 * gord does his daily fist shaking at thunderbird
<christel> morning
<AlanBell> o/ christel
<christel> hello AlanBell :)
<popey> gord: you using an external display on your x220 at the moment
<popey> ?
<popey> if I plug a display into mine, the system locks up hard
<popey> i have to REISUB to reboot. suggestions welcome!
<MartijnVdS> REISUB?
<popey> sysrq, you know
<MartijnVdS> ah.. SUB :)
<MartijnVdS> I don't do the REI bit
<popey> i dunno where to look
<MartijnVdS> popey: kernel log?
<popey> which one?
<daubers> syslog or kern.log probably (if it's a driver thing)
<gord> popey, nope, but didn't have any issues with plugging into displays in oakland
<popey> neither did I
<popey> but this only started yesterday afternoon
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<bigcalm> \o/
<gord> popey, see if neil is having problems? he drives a bunch of monitors from his
<bigcalm> gord: you've been infected by an American phrase "bunch of"
<gord> bigcalm, thats american? the song "lover-ley bunch of coconuts" begs to differ
<bigcalm> gord: that's acceptable. When something like that can be called a bunch (see flowers)
<czajkowski> bah no balor
 * czajkowski hugs christel 
<christel> thanks i needed that
<awilkins> Is it just me, or is Ruby horrible?
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
<awilkins> I suppose it might just be the tutorial I'm doing that makes Ruby look horrible
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Ruby is the bastard child of Perl, Python and PHP
<diplo> heh MartijnVdS, RoR seems ok when I looked at it, but tbh I cba to look/learn another language
<MartijnVdS> diplo: does the language support unicode yet? :)
<directhex> but is it webscale?
<directhex> IME the problem with ruby is it eats all the ram
<directhex> ALL THE RAM
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> we run puppet
<MartijnVdS> it does that too
<MartijnVdS> it's ruby
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I'm just doing a tutorial and really hating things like the Dir class having methods... and an indexer (for searching on wildcards).. and the FileUtils.cp method being "cp"
<directhex> also, ruby's developers are incredibly hostile towards distributions
<directhex> debian almost dropped it totally
<diplo> MartijnVdS: Seems it does in v1.9?
<awilkins> Just adopted Redmine, hence the Ruby
<awilkins> Almost wish Redmine didn't suit us so well now I have have a semi-formed opinion of the language based on 20 minutes of tutorials
<directhex> awilkins, ditto
<directhex> ruby is shit, but redmine is best-of-class
<diplo> I've not heard of it
<directhex> erk, sorry, forgot which channel i was in
 * diplo googles
<awilkins> Class being "open source software project forges"
<christel>  
<diplo> Seems exactly what I wanted, not sure I want a Ruby app either though
<awilkins> TBH I like it better than the proprietary ones I've encountered which admittedly is a limited set (CollabNet, mostly)
<awilkins> The RPC interface on CollabNet performs like a dead greyhound nailed to the ground with a railway spike.
<AlanBell> I think you have to have a macbook air to use Ruby
<AlanBell> and the right kind of sunglasses
<directhex> haha
<directhex> AlanBell++
<diplo> heh, all the tutorials I saw were on macs
<directhex> twittered
<awilkins> Yeah, I saw a tutorial on Git that conveyed that impression, was Ruby-on-Rails with Git on a Mac
<popey> s/macbook air/dell ultrabook/ ;)
<directhex> y'know, i don't think i like many frameworks for development on linux
<directhex> php is terrible - but it's fast to do things with, ubiquitous, and great webapps like mediawiki are made with it
<directhex> python just pisses me the hell off
<directhex> ruby would be inoffensive, if not for the developers believing their "packages are evil!" bull
<directhex> perl, that's the future that is
<diplo> I used to use Perl a lot, rarely touch it now
 * bigcalm takes exception to these Exceptions being thrown
<directhex> i haven't done any serious perl since i discovered c#
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello me old chapp
<davmor2> directhex: perl is easy it's what comes after knit one
<directhex> perl isn't great for gui app design though
<davmor2> directhex: use python then
<directhex> <directhex> python just pisses me the hell off
<awilkins> >-<   The Object IDs for small integers in Ruby ... 0 is 1... 1 is 3... 2 is 5 ... and 100 is 201 ; that's utterly barmy
<diplo> :D
<awilkins> Is there some deeper purpose there I just don't get, or is it specifically designed to make your brain curl up and cry?
<diplo> Hadn't got that far awilkins , and I agree
<bigcalm> Anybody used their UK T-Mobile or Orange contract in Northern Ireland?
<bigcalm> I'm wondering what to expect next week
<awilkins> bigcalm, Dunno about NI, Southern Island you usually get a roaming text message as the ferry pulls into dock
<awilkins> s/Isl/Ire/
<bigcalm> Ireland will be for another holiday :)
<directhex> http://www2.orange.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?c=OUKPage&cid=1096359194359&itemid=1044130409898&mid=1147441289806&pagename=OUKPersonal&t=OUKP-FAQs&tab=1&topic=1098209181221
<directhex> i.e. NI is the UK, is served by UK networks at UK prices
<bigcalm> Good :)
<bigcalm> Then I hope my T-mobile contract works just the same :)
<davmor2> directhex: use python to just create a webkit window and then do it all in html then
<directhex> i could do that in c# :p
<directhex> bit of the ol' webkit#
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<andylockran> muah
<andylockran> this is awesome
<directhex> yes, i am
<andylockran> chilling out on the roof of the office in the sunshine :)
<MooDoo> andylockran: bugger off :)
<andylockran> got a brolly and my aptop
<andylockran> laptop
<andylockran> now, if only I didn't have clients this job would be perfect
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT9i99D_9gI
<bigcalm> Has anybody experienced ctrl-c not working in a shell?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yes, when the system load, has been huge, almost to the point of being non-responsive.
<bigcalm> But not under normal load?
<brobostigon> no.
<bigcalm> Everything else about these servers seems to be OK, but ctrl-c isn't working
<brobostigon> bigcalm: for some programs, it takes time to die, but still works.
<bigcalm> This is even in bash :(
<brobostigon> weird.
<brobostigon> bigcalm: is that keydtroke, mapped or directly built into bash, and is unchangable?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: key stroke
<bigcalm> I have no idea what the rest of your sentence means
<brobostigon> ok,
<diplo> bigcalm: Defo not been remapped ?
<diplo> By someone else ?
<diplo> Type stty and see what intr is set to
<AlanBell> anyone know about configuring hp raid controllers with hpacucli?
<bigcalm> $ stty
<bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
<bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
<davmor2> AlanBell: Nope you'll be after the sysadminy types I guess
<bigcalm> Whoops, that was the wrong server
<bigcalm> iain@web1:~$ stty
<bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
<bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
<bigcalm> Heh, same anyway
<awilkins> bigcalm, So break causes interrupt?
<bigcalm> awilkins: I don't know about these things
<awilkins> bigcalm, Try the break key
<bigcalm> Nothing
<bigcalm> Nor with any combination of shift, ctrl, alt, alt gr
<awilkins> Try opening another shell and using kill to send SIGINT to the process you want to die
<bigcalm> Would that be kill -SIGINT <pid>?
<bigcalm> No change
<awilkins> kill -INT pid?
<awilkins> kill -2 pid?
<bigcalm> Again no change
<awilkins> Bah
<awilkins> It's possible to disable ctrl-C thusly : http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-shell-scripting-disable-controlc/
<awilkins> so trap `'echo Horsefeathers' 2 `just makes ctrl-C echo stuff
<awilkins> Only seems to do it for the one terminal, so it would have to be in your profile if this method is being used
<awilkins> just `trap 2` ough to turn it off
 * bigcalm tests
<bigcalm> Just `trap 2` on the cli with the back-ticks?
<awilkins> Without
<bigcalm> No change
<awilkins> I'm in "askubuntu.com" mode
<awilkins> Wiki markup
<awilkins> What kind of sick spud disables interrupt signals...
<bigcalm> Ok, I've never written in a wiki :)
<directhex> me!
 * directhex disables interrupt signals
<awilkins> Ask ^ him how to fix it
<bigcalm> directhex: fix my ctrl-c :)
<awilkins> He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing
<directhex> bigcalm, NO! muahahahahahaha!
 * bigcalm bleeps
<bigcalm> Time for foods
<awilkins> What does `stty -a` say?
<awilkins> adrian@tachikoma:~/koans$ stty -a
<awilkins> speed 38400 baud; rows 46; columns 129; line = 0;
<awilkins> intr = ^C;  <snip>
<awilkins> The intr = ^C bit is significant here
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000656/
<awilkins> Ok, well, your interrupt key is still ctrl-C
 * awilkins headdesk
<bigcalm> Can I change it to be something else?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: why?
<diplo> Yes you can bigcalm
<bigcalm> To see if it works
<diplo>  >stty
<diplo> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
<diplo> intr = ^O;
<diplo> Seeing if I can remember how :)
<diplo> http://superuser.com/questions/310333/how-can-i-remap-ctrlc-to-send-an-interrupt-signal-with-another-key
<bigcalm> Ta
<diplo> Torch just about to enter my town
<diplo> Want to know how they are live streaming this
<diplo> No jitters/buffering or anything
<davmor2> diplo: I'd say that was amasing but unless they have David Tenant in his Doctor Who gear running into the stadium with the torch it's all for nothing :D
<bigcalm> stty intr q
<bigcalm> Does nothing :(
<bigcalm> To the fooding shop!
<diplo> Can't move in my town :(
<awilkins> Bah humbug to the Olympics
<diplo> heh same here awilkins
<diplo> Lazy git walking at the mo, he's like 20 years younger than the last guy!
<awilkins> Oh, Ruby
<awilkins> You are truly nutzoid
<awilkins> "In ruby 1.8, single chars are represented by integers. In ruby 1.9, they are represented by strings"
<directhex> :D
<DJones> For an office server, what type of raid would you recommend it should have
<DJones> I've been asked to get a price from Dell for a replacement server so we'll have something to compare our IT support's quote with
<directhex> DJones, depends on the price/performance ratio you want to aim for
<DJones> The "boss" wants supercomputer performance, with pen & paper price
<directhex> raid 10
 * bigcalm returns with foods
<DJones> or, as cheap as possible but good performance
<directhex> i.e. create a number of raid 1 pairs, then stripe them.
<directhex> this means you get 50% of the storage capacity you pay for, and can sustain a number of disk failures between 1 and x, where x is the number of raid1 pairs you have, but only if the *correct disks fail
<daubers> DJones: Is this hardware RAID or software RAID?
<directhex> i.e. if both disks in the same raid1 pair die, you're stuffed
<directhex> raid5 is the most cost-effective redundant storage option, but performance sucks
<DJones> I would go with hardware raid, just looking at the dell website anyway
<daubers> RAID6 with a decent RAID card performs pretty well these days
<directhex> so you need to decide how much storage you want, versus how much to pay
<directhex> as a random example, if you use consumer-grade 2T SATA disks, and want 4T of storage, with raid5 you need three disks, with raid10 you need 4.
<directhex> plus a hotspare for best practice, in both
<daubers> DJones: Is this for general office files, and for how many users?
<DJones> As far as I can tell, the current server/enigma machine has roughly 40Gb of storage
<directhex> for 10T of storage with 2T disks, that's 6 disks with raid5, or 10 disks with raid10
<DJones> It is a pile of junk
<DJones> Thanks for the thoughts anyway, seem to be looking at about Â£1250 for a server with raid5, 4 drives etc
<AlanBell> DJones: if you don't need masses of storage then small SSD might be worth considering for supercomputer performnace
<daubers> DJones: How many users?
<DJones> daubers: About 4 users in total
<daubers> DJones: Then anything will do really. If it's officey type files more spindles will be better performance wise
<directhex> raid5 is fine, if you don't mind crap performance.
<directhex> you can't make raid5 fast. you can fake it, by adding buckets of cache in front, which is why more expensive raid controllers have more cache
<DJones> AlanBell: I don't think SSD will benefit anything apart from speed, and the network here is held together with string so its not the best
<daubers> directhex: Modern RAID cards do really well in RAID 5/6, got a RAID 6 box downstairs that will keep par with a raid 10 setup
<daubers> (this is large files, cache doesn't help)
<directhex> daubers, i'm not sure how you can possibly overcome the inherent problem with needing to calculate parity data and write to every disk, for every stripe. that's just not going to be fast
<daubers> directhex: The disks are still the slow point
<directhex> daubers, right. so n disks means n seek times per write
<directhex> the idea with raid performance is to maximize spindles for reading, and minimize for writing. which is, of course, impossible. hence balancing acts of different raid schemas
<daubers> directhex: yep, the RAID cards can calculate the parity faster than they can write to disks
<daubers> directhex: Good example, I have a RAID 50 set downstairs comprised of 24 SSD's. In that point, all of the RAID card cleverness (cachine and what not) is turned off and it performs as well as the same set in a RAID 10
<daubers> the RAID card caching stuff slows that set down
<daubers> The problem I have with that box is that the network cards can't keep up with it. The TCP offload engines aren't good enough
<daubers> directhex: I've also found that different filesystems make a massive difference, much bigger than that of the RAID mode
<directhex> that's easy. XFS all the things! :D
<daubers> Yup
<daubers> Really hoping btrfs can start to outperform XFS, but it's not quite there yet
<directhex> butterfs. does it have fsck yet?
<daubers> It does... not completley useful yet though
<daubers> "Latest btrfs-progs (c. 26 Mar 2012)
<daubers> btrfsck can now repair some forms of filesystem breakage"
<directhex> until it has a usable fsck i wouldn't even use it on a personal system. maybe a test VM.
<daubers> I tinker with it now and again. Hoping that it'll be really useable by late next year as some of the snapshotting features are very useful
<directhex> xfsdump!
<popey> btrfs is fun
<davmor2> popey: have you tried snapshots yet?
<popey> no
<popey> i dont need them for what I'm doing
<davmor2> popey: oh I thought you were just having a play with the btrfs features
<popey> no, I am using it
<popey> on my home server
<davmor2> popey: yes using == playing honest :D
<davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo this version of the 80's classic still sends chills up my spine
<gord> greatest thing i ever received in the post ever? http://ubuntuone.com/6k4qBUfeMN92zgZVb9CJr4
<popey> lol
<davmor2> gord: Hmmm Japanese cat food disguised as sweets ;)
<diplo> That is great gord :P
<czajkowski> gord: words fail me
 * diplo is in two minds whether this Olympic Torch will make it round the country, at the speed it's done my town I doubt it!
<davmor2> diplo: it has 70 days
<diplo> Still... davmor2 :P
<davmor2> diplo: no if they are Still you're right it'll never make it ;)
 * dwatkins shakes his head at Unity refusing to let him login via NX
<andylockran> aww
<dwatkins> oh, it let me in the end, it was just annoying about it
<davmor2> dwatkins: are you using unity 2d for login?  if not I don't think nx works right with 3d currently, I could be wrong
<dwatkins> davmor2: it appears it defaulted to 2D
<dwatkins> I'm not sure what I need to put in the 'custom' field for NX, mind.
<davmor2> dwatkins: yeap so you would of had the time delay where is ran the test trying to login into 3d realised it couldn't and then logged into the 2d version instead
<dwatkins> aha, gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d
<davmor2> dwatkins: that should all be a thing of the past in 12.10 apparently we'll see
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> I only just updated this 'server' to 11.04, probably will leave it there a while
<diplo> gord: Remind me to not let you in my kitchen!
<daubers> So where is canonical moving too?
<directhex> turkmenistan. in a giant corporate airship.
<davmor2> directhex 's house
<daubers> directhex: Cool!
 * daubers wishes he worked in an airship
<directhex> corporate airship would be the best thing ever.
<vedreamer> sdfsdf fsdfsdf
<shauno> what's that lassie?  little timmy's stuck in the well?
<vedreamer> Oops. just trying out irc clients in Ububtu
<awilkins> Richard Branson might be the sort to have a corporate airship
<directhex> for a while aeroscraft were marketing them as an alternative to private jets
<awilkins> Is 12.10 supposed to be Wayland, or just "available Wayland"
<directhex> never sold any though afaik
<ed_> hi, I want to install kubuntu 64bit version, the website lists a "kubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso" file, does this work only on amd cpu or intel aswell? (my machine has an i5 cpu) thanks
<popey> no, it works on intel and amd64 64-bit chips
<popey> (except itanium)
<popey> it's just that AMD named the architecture
<ed_> ok then, thanks
<popey> np
<directhex> surprising how often that comes up
<directhex> nobody is confused that i386 works on non-intel chips
<popey> i dont think people know what "i386" actually means
<gord> ipod from the future
<davmor2> geek and magic combo http://vimeo.com/4336830
<diplo> Beer at lunch time wasn't such a good idea :'(
<diplo> I wasn't doing very well before, doing worse now!
<cocoa117> with e-sata port on the motherboard, can you use it as internal SATA with internal hard disk?
<bigcalm> It's a different shape connector I thought
<awilkins> The internal connectors are usually the same
<awilkins> You're just supposed to use them with a breakout plate
 * bigcalm nods
<awilkins> Don't see why not
<directhex> cocoa117, as far as the OS is concerned, they're the same thing. physically, it might be more challenging
<awilkins> They're just rated for longer cables AFAIK
<directhex> laptops sometimes have hybrid ports which are usb2 and esata
<awilkins> With my mobo the esata is just a bonded socket on the backplane
<popey> AlanBell: do you still have my mic and lead?
<directhex> i don't have esata per se... my motherboard came with a bracket which connects to sata ports on the motherboard & presents esata connectors on the back of the case
<directhex> but unpowered, so there's a second bracket for power connectors
<directhex> then breakout cables - esata to sata, and molex to sata
<cocoa117> directhex, so if they are physically the same, i can just use them as they are right? they looks phyically same to me, except its paint it in red, :)
<popey> sata and esata cables/connectors are not the same
<directhex> cocoa117, esata isn't physically the same. similar, but the power pins will likely get in the way
<cocoa117> directhex, in that case, put it this way, if i can use normal sata cable connection from mobo e-sata port, i should be good to go right?
<cocoa117> on the mobo, they look exact the same to me, i can even easily plug-in normal internal sata cable
<awilkins> It's too hot in here
<awilkins> They're skimping on the aircon again
 * awilkins shakes his fist at the beancounters
 * bigcalm draws the curtains and opens a window
<bigcalm> Oh that is so much better
<czajkowski> herro
<davmor2> czajkowski: been let back in for good behaviour?
<czajkowski> yup
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't know what more worrying, them letting you in or you being good :P
 * czajkowski is always good 
<davmor2> czajkowski: and the devil never lies.....oh wait :P
<gord> czajkowski, what was in the cat packet: http://ubuntuone.com/1eKZzXUDUd0AgDxSnu1QYM http://ubuntuone.com/1sFfpo3GLcq8bm3H7HJMTr - worth every penny.
<czajkowski> gord: you know how I feel about cats
<czajkowski> gord: and I brought you TEA and bikies!
<czajkowski> never again :/
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> czajkowski: but I bought you a kitten as a house warming pressie
<czajkowski> >:(
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<davmor2> czajkowski: what?
 * SuperMatt thinks reddit.com/r/ubuntu/new needs more love
<MooDoo> davmor2: how's hot going
<MooDoo> czajkowski: prd!
<davmor2> MooDoo: have you lost the ability so say prod all of a sudden?
<bigcalm> Is it ok to complain about the weather yet?
<davmor2> bigcalm: NO!!!!!
<MooDoo> davmor2: no it wasn't a full prod, more like a half hearted attempt due to the time of day :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't worry it's going to rain again from sunday
<bigcalm> Yippie
<davmor2> MooDoo: BOOOO!!!!!
<bigcalm> Just in time for our holiday in NI
 * MooDoo going to devon
<davmor2> I'm off to Shrewsbury doesn't sound nearly as good
<bigcalm> davmor2: what business do you have in my fair county?
<MooDoo> woolacoombe to be more precise
<davmor2> bigcalm: RKM wools for wifey
<bigcalm> davmor2: enjoy :)
 * awilkins is going to London for NHSHackDay
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
 * Laney bells AlanPoke
<popey> AlanBell: do you have my mic and stand and cable perchance?
<bigcalm> Oh dear, that'll make podmaxing difficult
<popey> indeed
<popey> unless I have them but can't find them
 * bigcalm thinks nobody got the reference :(
<popey> I did âº
<bigcalm> \o/
<popey> NONSENSE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
<bigcalm> Hehehe
<bigcalm> I always wanted to be a member of Black Squadron
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> But couldn't face the world at that time
<bigcalm> $ host beta.totalderivatives.com
<bigcalm> Host beta.totalderivatives.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
<bigcalm> Anybody else get that?
<Laney> beta.totalderivatives.com has address 89.16.175.105
<bigcalm> Maybe because I asked before it had been actioned, my dns is caching it
<bigcalm> Laney: thanks. whatsmydns.net says the same
<davmor2> popey: you'll just have to sit cheek to cheek with tonytiger
<bigcalm> Cosy
 * bigcalm pokes the server with an ssl stick
<bigcalm> Silly thing isn't responding
<bigcalm> Bytemark VMs don't come with firewalls, do they?
<alexcockell> Who's gonna be laughing at Eurovision tonight?
<bigcalm> That's still a thing?
<davmor2> alexcockell: You by the sound of it
<dogmatic69> what is a decent home/small office 'backup' solution
<bigcalm> I've enabled ssl on apache2 with a2enmod ssl, but the port seems to be closed still. Any thoughts?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: rsync!
<BigRedS> depends what you want to do, we use backuppc here and it doesn't seem too much faff for only a few hosts
<davmor2> dogmatic69: Ubuntu one, a usb/esata caddy, rsync
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: sorry, talking more hardware side first off.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: off-site harddrive dedicated to your backups running rdiff-backup (this is what I do)
<bigcalm> Actually, it's what I do for my parents
<bigcalm> I don't have anything of worth to backup here
<davmor2> bigcalm: can you hear it....no....I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you
<bigcalm> davmor2: you know I can work from any machine :P
 * davmor2 makes a note to learn to play the violin it's squeaking like hell
<dogmatic69> davmor2: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0kox1EZGj1qkismz.gif
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'll loan you my laptop some time muhahahahahaha
<bigcalm> Yay, got https working - had to add Listen 443 to /etc/apach2/ports.conf
<bigcalm> davmor2: then I shall plug in a USB kb ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: wuss
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: drop the bloat, cherokee ftw
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<bigcalm> Not going to happen any time soon
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> nginx...
<bigcalm> Business doesn't work that quickly
<davmor2> dogmatic69: depending on how much data you have, do a deja-dup to U1 or and external hd and done
<dogmatic69> davmor2: 100G+
<MartijnVdS> hence ".. or and external hd"
<davmor2> dogmatic69: external hd
<bigcalm> https works, yay
<bigcalm> Time for a walk
<the-penguin> Hi I can't update my system. No keyrings installed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
<the-penguin> Had no problems updating a few days ago and my sources list looks ok
<vedreamer> Can someone remind me how to suppress join quit messages, I can't seem to get the syntax right.
<brobostigon>  /help ignore
<mh0> vedreamer: XChat has a feature for that
<vedreamer> I'm using XChat-GNOME but couldn't see it
<mh0> Probably not then
<mh0> Weird, I can't even seem to find the setting anymore
<mh0> OH
<mh0> vedreamer: I think it can also be channel specific
<vedreamer> i know it's /ignore <something> QUIT JOIN
<mh0> vedreamer: It's channel dependant. Right click your channel > Settings > Hide Quit/Join Messages
<vedreamer> Do you mean in the channel pane on the left?
<mh0> yeah
<vedreamer> Not in mione :-(
<mh0> hm
<mh0> xchat-gnome is rather different from the actual xchat
<mh0> And is much, much older
<mh0> 0.3.0
<mh0> Mine is 2.8.8
<vedreamer> Thanks, I'll drop it then and switch to Xchat.
<vedreamer> ah much better. Thanks
<Azelphur> hmm, what's the usual pdf viewer in ubuntu?
<Azelphur> I don't seem to have it for some reason
<stgraber> evince
<Azelphur> was uninstalled for some reason, odd *shrug*
 * AlanBell listens to the podcast
<dogmatic69> Is there anything I can setup to monitor a folder for new files and then run a command when there is something new / changed/
<dogmatic69> been trying google but only getting back stuff related to finding and searching for files
<gord> dogmatic69, inotifywait
<dogmatic69> gord: thanks, seems like that will do the trick
<dogmatic69> gord: do you know if it is ok to run that for days / weeks on end?
<BigRedS> I've done it before with no ill effect
<gord> dogmatic69, its fine, that is the point of inotify
<mrevell> What's up #ubuntu-maas?
<mattt> mrevell: WRONG WINDOW
<mrevell> mattt, Ah, damn, no, just stupid typing. I meant to type #ubuntu-uk but got distracted...
 * AlanBell thinks everyone should join #ubuntu-maas and say hi to Daviey who is very lonely in there
<mrevell> :)
<mrevell>  #maas is where it's at
<AlanBell> ooh canonical and your out-of-namespace channels
<mrevell> AlanBell, Ach. We had a discussion about this earlier and the other two people on the call were very happy to palm the decision off onto me :) So, I Picarded it and went with #maas ... it's for the upstream project of MAAS, so, erm, that's my justification.
<mrevell> :)
<AlanBell> thats fine :)
<Daviey> AlanBell: i'm going to make a forward from #ubuntu-maas to #maas.  Unless you want to handle it? :)
<AlanBell> go for it Daviey, you should be able to part and rejoin to get ops and set it up
<Daviey> AlanBell: bah, i hoped i managed to get you to do it :)
<SuperEngineer> Hi folks.  Has anyone tried the Gimp 2.8 ppa? Is it safe in 12.04 as claimed?
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: where is it claimed that it is safe?
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: 2 secs
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~otto-kesselgulasch/+archive/gimp the description on the PPA indicates that there should be no dependency problems and that it should install, it does not promise to be safe for future upgrades
<AlanBell> Otto is one of the maintainers and if I was going to install gimp 2.8 that is where I would install it from
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you beat me to it!
<ali1234> i'm going to install it and if it breaks it's all your fault AlanBell
<AlanBell> but it is not 'safe' it is quite explicitly 'at your own risk'
<SuperEngineer> ...but it is the future that woories me too... if only I could remember where I parked the time machine!
<ali1234> definitely your fault
<AlanBell> do I get the credit if it works?
<ali1234> no
 * SuperEngineer wonders if ali1234 could have my time machine.. if so - let me know if you find any probs pretty please
<ali1234> i know that gimp 2.8 has an annoying design regression where it won't let you save a file unless it is already .xcf
<SuperEngineer> ooops
<ali1234> so before you could open screenshot -> crop -> save
<ali1234> now you have to open screenshot -> crop -> export -> select format -> type filename -> etc
<ali1234> i plan to go and complain about this as soon as i've installed it
<SuperEngineer> that's my mind made up - thanks ali1234 - think I'll wait awhile [& can I have my time machine back please]
<ali1234> i really want single window mode though
<ali1234> i've been waiting for it for like 5 years
<SuperEngineer> yup - that was my only reason for even thinking about it
<SuperEngineer> so many people begging for it - now we just need a stable version that does itr
<ali1234> of course that design regression wouldn't be nearly as bad if gnome/ubuntu hadn't rippled the printscreen function
<dogmatic69> anyone used fibre channel HDD's?
<ali1234> sccording to gimp.org "There are some optimizations for alternative   workflows such as opening a jpg, polishing it, and quickly exporting   back to the original file."
<AlanBell> printscreen is working fine again I think
<AlanBell> alt-printscreen does what you would expect, with options to save or copy
<ali1234> in classic gnome it screenshots 1 window
<AlanBell> unless I fixed mine myself, not sure
<AlanBell> yeah, it screenshots one window
<ali1234> i can't test it in unity because i killed it with fire
<ali1234> anyone know how to enable single window mode then?
<ali1234> oh. that's not very good
<ali1234> something is broken with my gtk, menu bars don't wrap any more
<ali1234> if menu wider than window, the rest of the items just get cut off
 * AlanBell congratulates ali1234 for finding something good about global menus
<ali1234> global menus are almos certainly the reason why nobody has noticed this regression
<ali1234> hmm single window mode isn't actually as good as it could have been
<ali1234> it doesn't use MDI like photoshop. it has a weird tabbed interface like firefox
<ali1234> so you can't view two images side by side
<ali1234> you can't move tool windows over the image you've working on
<ali1234> and the toolbox always has to be in the top right
<SuperEngineer> it *is*a first try - & a point to move forward from though - I hope.
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: but the tapped layers sounds good [but you're the one who's using it so I'm only going from your edescription
<ali1234> tapped layers?
<SuperEngineer> ooops
<SuperEngineer> tabbed
<ali1234> it's not for layers
<ali1234> layers interface is exactly the same
<ali1234> it's if you open multiple windows
<ali1234> er... multiple images
<ali1234> the images still appear under the "windows" menu though lol
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - so they're not windows, but are "windows"
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> there not even MDI child windows
<ali1234> i'm really surprised they've actually managed to make something even worse
<SuperEngineer> well, I suppose it's as I said, it's a first try  - only way is up
<ali1234> they could surprise me again and continue to make it worse in each release
<ali1234> ok, there's a menu item for imported images (ie not xcf) to directly export them back to the original file with one step. so that's good
<ali1234> i want to use xcf the rest of the time anyway
<Azelphur> ali1234: I spoke to Logitech, they blame my horrible hong kong ebay bought USB devices
<SuperEngineer> ...they could *charge* for it... me, I say thanks
<SuperEngineer> - but I stay at current stable version
<Azelphur> which I guess is possible, I'mma try unplugging all the things for a while
<ali1234> and also it remembers the export settings so once you've exported once you ctrl-e and it's like "save" except to the jpeg copy
<ali1234> so you don't have to remember to save as xcf then save as jpeg to keep the two files in sync
<ali1234> you just press ctrl-s ctrl-e
<ali1234> that's awesome :)
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> could be nicer and remember a bunch of output resolutions to save an xcf as
<ali1234> you mean like export to multiple different resolutions in one ctrl-e?
<ali1234> you need adobe for that still :)
<AlanBell> or rather, I have one xcf file, and on save of that I want a .gif this size, a png that size and two jpegs of these settings . . .
<SuperEngineer> thanks for all the feedback ali1234
 * SuperEngineer is now off to the room with pillows in it - have fun folkies ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-23
<Azelphur> anyone know how to make it so that all files put in a folder have a default group
<soreau> Azelphur: What's the use case?
<Azelphur> soreau: keep all files in the web servers directory in the web servers group so it can always read them
<Azelphur> as root
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> whooops, ignore the "as root", wrong window
<soreau> I imagine you might be able to use a script, maybe abuse cron
<Azelphur> *shrug* I thought there was a flag you could set
<soreau> Azelphur: Maybe someone in ##linux knows
 * Azelphur isn't a fan of them folks
<ali1234> Azelphur: "SGID can also be used on a directory so that every file  created in that directory will have the directory group owner rather than the  group owner of the user creating the file."
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I do it? :D
<ali1234> chmod g+s directory/
<Azelphur> I thought it was that but then I read the manual and it made me think I was wrong, fun
<ali1234> and same goes for setuid
<ali1234> oh, apparently the same does not go for setuid
<ali1234> it's ignored on directories
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2012 Coming Soon! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/23/community-leadership-summit-2012-coming-soon/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] The Canononical Community Team - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/23/the-canononical-community-team/
<Nafallo> morning!
<DJones> Good morning
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone using Irssi know how to hide parts and joins ?
<diplo> I failed at it yesterday with a /ignore, quite happy for some input
<Nafallo> diplo: /set activity_hide_level
<diplo> Done, I'll await the non output
<diplo> ta
<diplo> :)
<Nafallo> what did you set it to? :-)
<Nafallo> mine is: activity_hide_level = ALL -PUBLIC -MSGS -DCCMSGS -HILIGHT -ACTIONS
<diplo> I saw this /set activity_hide_level parts joins quits nicks modes
<diplo> How does yours do it differently ?
<diplo> Is that more an over all hide on areas as such ?
<Nafallo> not sure, except mine's a whitelist. not a blacklist like yours.
<diplo> ah, may work better then
<Nafallo> right. I need to get ready for work
<Nafallo> need to stay up all night as well... :-/
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Glad I don't have to do that anymore!
<Nafallo> well, not because of work, but trying to correct some of the jetlag I'll be suffering on thursday.
<Nafallo> flying out tomorrow mornign :-P
<diplo> ah, pre-empting it
<Nafallo> yeah
<diplo> Don't fly very often, and never really suffered any form of it.. guess I haven't flown far enough
<Nafallo> ...if possible
<MartijnVdS> My Pi's in the mail (according to Farnell)
<shauno> mine's blinking away on the desk in front of me :)  finally found a monitor cable I could use
<MartijnVdS> you didn't have an HDMI cable? :)
<shauno> I didn't have hdmi to dvi, and bringing my TV to work didn't seem sensible
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Just order one from building facilities :P
<selinuxium> Morning all   0/
<MooDoo> :)
<vedreamer> diplo: did you solve your irsii problem. I have that on my laptop. I'll boot it if you still have question.
<MooDoo> <3 irssi :)
<diplo> vedreamer: After what Nafallo suggested it still doesn't seem to hide join/parts
<diplo> Or what I tried
<diplo> So yeah, open for some help :)
<vedreamer> I'll boot then
<Nafallo> so ehrm.
<Nafallo> it works for me? :-P
<Nafallo> /set activity_hide_level ALL -PUBLIC -MSGS -DCCMSGS -HILIGHT -ACTIONS
<matti> Hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> that's the exact command you want to make happen
<diplo> 09:39 [lookandfeel]
<diplo> 09:39 activity_hide_level = ALL -PUBLIC -MSGS -DCCMSGS -HILIGHT -ACTIONS
<Myrtti> that is for the status bar
<diplo> Wondering if it didn't take affect earlier
<Myrtti> was that what you were looking for?
<diplo> Nope, hiding join and parts in the channel
<Myrtti> ignore works for hiding it from displaying at all
<Myrtti> /help ignore
<diplo> heh, I tried that yesterday and ignored a whole channel
<diplo> I'll play again now
<diplo> ta
<diplo> Didn't know you could do /help though, another great tip thanks!
<Myrtti> it's the inbuilt manual
<vedreamer> It's '/ignore * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS' or '/ignore #channel_name +JOINS +PARTS +NICKS'
<diplo> So the initial one does all channels ?
<diplo> secondary one does a specific channel ?
<diplo> As I tried the second one before, from tutorial it said split them by commas but basically ignored second channel
<diplo> :P
<diplo> OK 5 mins and no replies, just to make sure I've not set everyone to ignore again :D
<AlanBell> so tempting not to reply to that
<diplo> heh thanks!
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Didn't I just see you tweet you are in London AlanBell, or was that TOS ?
<AlanBell> neither of us are in London right now
<diplo> oh :D
<AlanBell> both sat in the office
 * diplo really needs to go back to sleep today!
<diplo> Woke up at 3am!!!!
<diplo> I don't even have the kids at home with me :(
<gord> whatever we had to sacrifice to get this consistent sunny weather, it was worth it.
<diplo> I concur! And for it to stay, let's sacrifice lot's more
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<czajkowski> gord: hush you
<gord> czajkowski, how can you be against cats *and* sunshine?!
<czajkowski> gord: i adore sunshine
<czajkowski> we've been through this on my feelings of cats
<brobostigon> i also like sunshine, but heat, is bad for my eczema, it irritates it, well, the consequences of heat.
<vedreamer_irsii> cats make me itch too :-(
<brobostigon> vedreamer_irsii: here also, i am allergic to some animal furs.
<vedreamer> Hmm. I thought /commands were sent to the server but the /ignore that I used in irssi doesn't work in XChat ?
<brobostigon> vedreamer, i beleieve xchat has the ignore function, implemented in a different way.
<gord> no /ignore is entirely client side
<gord> it is not sent to the server
<Darael> vedreamer: They're interpreted by the client, but some are very similar to what gets sent to the server.  /ignore is a client-side feature.
<vedreamer> Thanks
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
 * brobostigon now has a yubikey to play with.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: shiny
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: get an account at xs4all, we support it for IMAP/webmail (and much more, soon :)
<MartijnVdS> </sales-pitch>
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool, :)
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm> Only thing I know about xs4all is its ircnet server :|
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: initially, i plan to work out, how to get it working, via pam, with ssh.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have coworkers who have that set up, it's quite cool
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: we have 100/100 (and 500/500, soon) FTTH as well :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: there is abit of new stuff, to get my head around.
<MartijnVdS> hmm 500/500 mbit ftth
<bigcalm> ftth?
<diplo> Alright MartijnVdS , don't rub it in
<diplo> Fibre to the home Im guesssing
<diplo> -s
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> So you'll run fibre to my home in the UK?
<diplo> Sounds good to me, yes please!
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> When it works correctly, I have no complaints over my cable connection. I don't see what the fuss is about
<brobostigon> adsl here, is quite variable, to the point of being unstable, i had never had those issues, when i had cable, while at college.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but if i do set that up, then i will be stuffed, if i try and connect to them, from connectbot.
<Darael> Is there a known issue with multiple keyboard layouts after upgrade to precise?  Because I'm having trouble on about for different machines.
<Darael> s/for/four/
<gord> stupid be keep "not making much progress" on getting fibre out :( really don't want to switch to another isp
<Darael> Specifically, each user account seems stuck in whatever its default was before the upgrade.  Other options show in the indicator/menu, but selecting them has no effect.  Options set (capslock-as-backspace, layout-switching keys) seem to have no effect.  No amount of changing settings has helped.
<s-fox> Hello
<ali1234> hi :)
<s-fox> Hello ali1234
<s-fox> How are you ?
<ali1234> good
<s-fox> Great.
<ali1234> did you get SD card to try mer?
<ali1234> wait, that was v-fox...
<ali1234> nvm :)
<seeker> Is there a cutout version of beach ball Popey around?
<s-fox> ali1234,  it has been a very long time since i needed help with anything gnu/linux related ;)
<ali1234> seeker http://ubuntuone.com/0hyIOKXnmmD7YScuCTq1my
<bigcalm> That really is disturbing :)
<seeker> Thanks
<seeker> Woo, the art of electronics arriving later today, and some 74hc181 in 2-4 days
<bigcalm> Stewart Francis gig tonight, woop!
<bigcalm> Just wish I wasn't so stressed with work before going on holiday next week
<diplo> Am I supposed to know who Stewart Francis is ?
 * diplo no likey Flash based sites, guessing a comedian though
<czajkowski> diplo: no you're not suppose to but a swift google will tell you won't it
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<davmor2> bigcalm: when do you go away
<diplo> Morning, and I did
<bigcalm> davmor2: coach sets off at early o'clock on Monday morning
<davmor2> bigcalm: remind me to wish you the happiest of trips on friday then :)
<bigcalm> Heh, will do :)
<bigcalm> My boss has instructed me to take Hayley out for a nice meal and to send him the bill
<bigcalm> I think Hayley should turn 40 more frequently
<davmor2> bigcalm: Announcing she is 40 is likely to mean you won't ever need to worry about hitting 40 ;)
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> davmor2: :P
<bigcalm> She has to wait 7 years until I reach the same decade as her again
<bigcalm> She was ever so pleased when I got into my 30s
<bigcalm> I guess I should buy a card
<popey> ali1234: wow... pommunity..
<popey> you removed to edit?
<ali1234> removed by seam police
<ali1234> now fixed :)
<diplo> hah, was wondering what you were on about. I am now with it
<diplo> :)
<gord> i heard that the xmas special of dr who will be the doctor fighting off an army of cloned beach ball popeys
<ali1234> so yeah gimp 2.8 is pretty good
<popey> haha
<davmor2> gord: no that wouldn't be scary enough he'd need an icecream in the other hand then it would be truely fearful
<gord> the end scene the camera will keep pulling back until its in outer space revealing that the entire planet is now quite literally in the grasp of the doctors newest adversary
<ali1234> can you tag yourself multiple times in one photo?
<popey> dunno
<davmor2> gord: you mean a giant popey holding the world instead of a beach ball :D
 * bigcalm pisses himself looking at g+
<SuperMatt> ...
<bigcalm> The demonic popey with beach ball meme is wonderful
<bigcalm> Saving Private popey is still my fave
<bigcalm> We're all going to war lads, lets beach party!
<kvarley> Anybody noticed that their system boots wayyyyyyyy slower when using btrfs on Ubuntu 12.04 ?
<Wobbo> Only in "Ubuntu 12.04 Classic (No effect)" I can change the fast-start-buttons in the panels (top and bottom). I can only change the panels itself. Any help?
<kvarley> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/791020) is the bug number. Any way to fix this yet?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 750209 in btrfs-tools (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #791020 btrfs does a full partition check on each boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> Wobbo: windows-alt click the panels
<ali1234> Wobbo: also you can only change the panels in classic, not in unity based desktops
<ali1234> right, lunch time, then i;m double-definitely going to work on this website for at least a couple of hours
<Wobbo> Thanks
<popey> kvarley: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/btrfs-tools/+bug/750209/comments/3
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 750209 in btrfs-tools (Ubuntu) "btrfs does a full partition check on each boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kvarley> popey: I need to learn to read the whole bug report ... lol
<kvarley> Right, reboot time to test. Thanks again popey
<popey> np
<Wobbo> But is there a way to unlock all, so that items / panels / actually all Ubuntu look like the "Ubuntu Classic (No effect)" version?
<popey> logout and login to gnome-fallback?
<kvarley> Worked =]
<ali1234> Wobbo: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117474986382867317779/posts/82D6UjGZh6L
<Mez> *sigh* 123reg fails again.
<Wobbo> ali1234, thanks
<bigcalm> The battery icon has gone from my 12.04 xubuntu laptop
<bigcalm> Wonder if it's related to czajkowski's problem
<bigcalm> Shows if I log out and back in to unity
<bigcalm> And as if by magic, the icon appears
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at something
<Mez> lmao
<Mez> 3 million domains unavailable.
<diplo> all mine are with them Mez, not noticed any issues
<Mez> are you using their DNS?
<diplo> Different sites are but not all
<Mez> the ones that are will be down.
<diplo> k, ta
 * Mez is furiously trying to transfer away
<diplo> I keep debating it, but not had the huge isues others have had.
 * Mez shrugs
<Mez> they say it's a DDoS ... I smell BS
<diplo> After recommendations on bitfolk mailing list I thought I might try the ones people mentioned on there
<Mez> they should be able to mitigate
<matti> Hi Mez
<matti> issyl0: :))
<directhex> Mez, url? i think that just hit me
<issyl0> matti: HELLO!
<matti> issyl0: Hello!
<issyl0> matti: How have you been?
<issyl0> matti: Aaaaagggeeeeessss since I've seen you online.
<issyl0> (I have to go to college soon...)
<matti> issyl0: I've been OK, not great... Just OK.
<matti> issyl0: How are you? Miss Student :)
<matti> directhex: There you go! Your reply to me will get indexed!
<matti> directhex: And perhaps will make onto first page ;)
<bigcalm> Well, this is interesting. 2 servers set-up on rackspace from the same image. web1 still can't ctrl-c, but db1 can!
<matti> bigcalm: ?
<bigcalm> The plot thickens (and I go crazy for another day)
<matti> bigcalm: Moon phases, man.
<bigcalm> SIGINT isn't working on web1
<matti> What is web1?
<matti> And check your terminal :) Maybe your controlling terminal is not passing / handling it correctly.
<vedreamer> anyone use vmware on ubuntu?
<popey> ruh-roh
<kvarley> vedreamer: I think VirtualBox is more commonly used. What's your problem?
<bigcalm> What's another shell that will respond to ctrl-c as sigint?
<bigcalm> I used chsh to change my shell to /bin/sh. Logged back in and tried ctrl-c. Gave me ^C, so I know something is happening
<ali1234> i don't think ctrl-c is part of the shell
<bigcalm> db1 is accepting ctrl-c, web1 is still the only server I have ever had this problem with
<bigcalm> ali1234: I didn't think so either, was just a shot in the dark :)
<ali1234> google says try "stty sane"
<bigcalm> What's meant to happen next?
<bigcalm> No change so far
<ali1234> nothing obvious except ctrl-c starts working...
<bigcalm> Loging out and back in has no change either
<bigcalm> What have I, what have I, what have I done to deserve this?
<bigcalm> reset doesn't make any difference either
<diplo> I honestly can't think what else it's going to be.. is it an ubuntu box bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Right, what else might be interrupting the signals? Considering that kill can't even send sigint to processes
<bigcalm> diplo: Debian Squeeze
 * bigcalm sniffles
<diplo> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=118556
<diplo> Seen this ?
<diplo> Half way down, talks about locales
<diplo> Causing this blokes issue
<diplo> Well actually maybe not, but lot's of things to try that I hadn't thought of
<diplo> ah this guys ( Sorry read all the way now ) was an issue with a particular wm causing it
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> My default terminal is xfce terminal emulator, just tried gnome-terminal with the same lack of ctrl-c
<bigcalm> sudo su -; apt-get update; apt-get upgrade; reboot
<bigcalm> ctrl-c works now \o/
<jpds> bigcalm: sudo -i
<matti> jpds: ;p
<bigcalm> Reboot required, yay :(
<diplo> What was it BigRedS ?
<diplo> oops sorry!
<diplo> bah, removed quits/parts and didn't see him going
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> I really need to sort out that one external USB drive that stops my dev server from booting if it's plugged in
<bigcalm> Why would an external USB drive stop a machine from booting?
<popey> it has grub on the mbr and the bios finds that and tries to boot off it?
<bigcalm> It's NTFS and off the shelf from Tesco
<matti> bigcalm: http://calmingmanatee.com/
<matti> bigcalm: Relax ;]
<bigcalm> :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I had that with my Viglen
<popey> \o/ viglen hilight
<bigcalm> popey: haha
<bigcalm> Myrtti: did you fix it?
<bigcalm> Afternoon showers are a great thing about working from home
 * bigcalm goes to cool down
<directhex> bigcalm, i've got a 12000 BTU air conditioner, which also helps for cooling down
<Myrtti> bigcalm: by unplugging the drive
<gord> i'm just going to clear out the fridge, turn it on its side and work from there soon >:(
<gord> either that or eat all the ice-cream
<popey> GO NAKED!
<Dave2> bigcalm: air conditioning is a great thing about working in an office
<Dave2> (the office also has a shower.)
<stgraber> bah, just get air conditioning at home ;) after having it for the past 2 years, I'm not sure I could work from home without it
<matti> Dave2: If... if the air conditioning was done right.
<matti> Dave2: Every place I worked before it was doing more harm than good :)
<directhex> it's not really my air conditioner
<gord> no, i'm just going to eat all the ice-cream
<directhex> i bought it for the chinchillas. they like chinchillin'
<Dave2> .
<directhex> also they die from heatstroke at much higher than 25Â°C
<matti> directhex: They are so cute.
 * bigcalm goes to eat Hayley's Haagen Dazs :D
<christel> how naughty!
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> By the time I got down stairs, I had forgotten about that
 * bigcalm noms some pop tarts
<christel> haha
<christel> bless
<christel> i am procrastinating with a pint of sunburst
<bigcalm> Pint of what?
<christel> sunburst! tis a dark star ale
<directhex> tomorrow is beer day.
<dogmatic69> is there such a thing as global variables in bash?
<dogmatic69> I am writing a little script and would like some variable passed around to all the function calls
<directhex> don't all variables in bash have global scope?
<gord> anything not declared as local is a global variable in bash
<dogmatic69> ah
<directhex> well, declared locally rather than declared as local, no?
<dogmatic69> so foo="bar"; function{ echo $foo; } will output 'bar'
<dogmatic69> well function name{... obviously
<gord> no, you can't access variables declared inside a scope from outside the scope, but they are still global variables. local is variable type that makes them explicitly local
<dogmatic69> I was doing foo="bar"; function name { foo=$1; echo $foo; } and calling "name $foo"
<dogmatic69> I want to get from outside in. instead of having to manually set foo=$1 and passing everything to each method
<SuperEngineer> sorry any sudden join leave notices - busy setting up a netbook
<SuperEngineer> thanks for your patience - netbook now setup - signing off ;)
<jacobw> hi
<TheOpenSourcerer> Big news! http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/05/google-v-oracle-no-patent-infringement-found/
<jacobw> whoop
<jacobw> imaginary property isn't real :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some sensibleness - in America?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Amazing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And a jury too.
<jacobw> trial by peers^H^H^H^H^Hrandom stupid people must suck
<DJones> Its America, the jurors have probably had a kickback from the lawyers so they can make more money on an appeal
<TheOpenSourcerer> It would be a non-jury trial on appeal.
<TheOpenSourcerer> All that is needed now to really make Oracle's day is for Judge to tell them that APIs can't be copyrighted (as we recently ruled in the EU) next week.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\we\was
 * davmor2 wonder how many of the jury got shine new samsung phones :D
<davmor2> as a thank you obviously
<TheOpenSourcerer> They'll be getting motorola ones.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Deal completed yesterday
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: hmmmmm motorola you can install Ubuntu 4 android on them :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Let's hope it is better than 12.04
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: 12.04 rocks dude :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not here it doesn't. Causes me no end of pain and suffering.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Workspace and multiple window handling really sucks balls.
<jacobw> i'm in the progress of a 12.04 roll out
<jacobw> unity is very hard to support
<jacobw> why can't i drag icons to launcher?
<jacobw> :|
<TheOpenSourcerer> Because.
<davmor2> jacobw: what Icons you can drag applications to the launcher
<jacobw> dragging .desktop from nautilus to the launcher doesn't preserve the icon
<davmor2> jacobw: why would you open nautilus to do that just search in the dash and then add it from there
<jacobw> i don't
<jacobw> i drag things from the destop
<jacobw> or rather, users i support do that
<jacobw> i usually find that these users are representive of what most people do when confronted with an interface
<AlanBell> I can understand dragging a .desktop not being coded for (.desktop files should not really be discovered by people) but it would be nice if dragging something that is executeable onto the launcher did something useful
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - ngetting annoyed now! Does anyone know the link or info for instaaling a U1 client icon notification area [in panel]
<SuperEngineer> [can't remember what it's it's called - or where I stored the info - doh!
<SuperEngineer> it's a ppa - somewhere
<liv> Hi , completely new to ubuntu. Is anyone available to help me with a wireless issue?
<AlanBell> liv: maybe, what is the issue?
<liv> AlanBell : hello. Just installed latest version of ubuntu , and cannot access the internet wirelessly. Only ethernet. I have dual boot with windows vista and have no wireless problems via that OS , so am fairly sure its a driver issue.
<AlanBell> what wireless card is it?
<liv> broadcom 802.11 (think its bcm4311 but cant be certain)
<jacobw> AlanBell: well, a .desktop is the icons people typically have on their desktops
<MartijnVdS> liv: does a list of wireless networks show up when you click the network icon?
<jacobw> as in, launchers for applications they use
<AlanBell> jacobw: if you go hunting about in /usr/share/applications perhaps, but why are they on the desktop?
<jacobw> ~/Desktop from GNOME2
<liv> MartijnVds : When I first installed , the wireless options were greyed out with a firmware missing message. I have tried a few things including searching software centre for fixes , and nothing has worked. The firmware error message has now since disappeared and no wireless networks or options appear at all. (long way of saying , no!)
<AlanBell> liv: there is a troubleshooting guide here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx
<liv> AlanBell : thank you , will have a look at that now
<TheOpenSourcerer> SuperEngineer: It is called indicator-ubuntuone or the (otherway round) on LP somewhere. But I recently did a sudo apt-get purge ubuntuone coz it was rubbish.
<SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: it's working fine for me on desktop now want to try it on 12.04 netbook - but I lost ppa info [till I went doh! & looked in my software sources list!!! [daft - ain't I?]
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://imgur.com/MSuCx.jpg
<AlanBell> nice
 * SuperEngineer really wants to shout praises for 12.04 UBDR - not sure if appropriate re intended useage :(   [it's on a netbook!]
<Azelphur> UBDR?
<SuperEngineer> Ubuntu Business Desktop Remix
<SuperEngineer> damn!
<SuperEngineer> given the secret away !!!   ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<AlanBell> I must at some stage get round to having a play with the business desktop thing
<SuperEngineer> Canonical is missing one hell of a big selling point / opportunity not promoting it as a businees desktop *and* netbook remix - I love it - fast enough to make Jeremy Clarkeson wet his knickers!
<AlanBell> I thought it was just ubuntu with added old versions of proprietary software
<brobostigon> blazing saddles, itv4, :)
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: try a speed comparison - "straight" 12.04 vs. Bus Remix
<AlanBell> straight 12.04 is blazing fast anyhow with 8GB of ram and an SSD
<AlanBell> I was pretty disappointed at the description of the business remix
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: that's cruel - there's no need to make me jealous ;)
<stgraber> I'm certainly happy to confirm that the business remix doesn't have any change besides some added/removed desktop packages (including flash and citrix receiver IIRC), nothing that'd make it any faster than stock 12.04
<SuperEngineer> I agree - The Business Remix, even at a basic level, wrongly named even!
<AlanBell> well they have kind of missed the point of the social business
<SuperEngineer> - should be called faster than fast remix - and netbook reviver
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: it is probably just doing a fresh install that did it
<SuperEngineer> nah - it was on clean disk space
<SuperEngineer> [I only installed it on a Compaq mini for demo to firm - I found it so much faster that now it's running on my own netbook]
<SuperEngineer> [an old Acer Aspire 150 [low spec]
 * SuperEngineer sniggers at being a cheapskate... it saves the environment
<SuperEngineer> 12.04 UBDR has now replaced 12.04 "normal" release on it...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E06  Summit - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/05/23/s05e06-summit/
<SuperEngineer> ... GRUB selection to desktop [including password entry] now at approx 60% of 12.04 "normal"
<SuperEngineer> - so now just need to need to keep kicking the bosses until they listen - no small task, multi-national company blah blah blah
<SuperEngineer> [miind you - I've got both a 20 yr old calculator that works better than their current "supplied" Windows install
<gordonjcp> here's a weirdness
<gordonjcp> I can't take a screenshot when the mail/im/whatever menu is open
<gordonjcp> also, I appear to be using an AlanBell-optimised version of pidgin
<AlanBell> orly
<gordonjcp> ya rly -> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4QnNiqoCSq3ajJT92157TnA83FAj-fIjLitqTOxAWn4
 * AlanBell doesn't think that is a bug
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's awesome if I want to be absolutely sure I can get in touch with you
<ali1234> yeah i've noticed that. can't do a screenshot when in a menu
<ali1234> also i've noticed that AlanBell thing too :)
<popey> yeah
<popey> you have to set a timer, open the menu and wait for the screenshot
<popey> i did ask about this some years back
<ali1234> yeah, that's what i do
<gordonjcp> popey: aha, genius
<popey> but i dont recall what the issue is
<popey> perhaps x doesn't react to non-menu keypresses or somesuch when a menu is open
<popey> but now, bed
<popey> nn
<gordonjcp> I only get it doing it with AlanBell too
<ali1234> yep same here
<ali1234> and i get loads of indicator popups as well
 * AlanBell gets around
<ali1234> online offline online offline online offline
<gordonjcp> ali1234: yeah
<ali1234> i suspect two devices that don't handle xmpp properly and are fighting for the connection
<Azelphur> I got imported coke from USA, vanilla flavour o.O
<Azelphur> tastes weird
<ali1234> i think they tried to sell that in the UK for a while
<ali1234> presumably it just tastes exactly like cream soda
<Azelphur> pretty much
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-24
<directhex> vanilla coke was rather meh
<Azelphur> yea, it is rather meh
<directhex> also, imported vanilla coke will be hfcs
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> epic sweet shop opened near my house, I'm a happy camper that's where I got it from
<Azelphur> they have everything :D
<directhex> for only  600% markup!
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> like 15 different types of toffe, caramel, fudge, imported coke, walls lined with everything :D
<Azelphur> they even had bright orange chocolate bars o.O
<directhex> american chocolate tastes of vomit :(
<directhex> intentionally. they flavour it with vomit.
<Azelphur> not all imported obviously
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> vanilla coke was Â£1.49
<directhex> well, that's a slight exaggeration.
<Azelphur> some toffee was 50p, and a reasonably big belgian white chocolate was Â£3
<Azelphur> so not too bad
<directhex> but american chocolate is made with, or artificially flavoured to emulate, a process called the "hershey process" - you can guess which company first used it
<Azelphur> haha
<directhex> the hershey process produces butyric acid as a byproduct, which is the vile-smelling component of vomit
 * Azelphur shrugs
<directhex> so other companies which follow a more conventional process just throw butyric acit into their chocolate mix, to make their chocolate taste more like vomit, since it's what consumers expect
<Azelphur> are you trying to put me off my tasty things
<ali1234> is that why advent calendar chocolate always tastes funny?
<Azelphur> *shrug
<directhex> ali1234: i think those are mostly made in europe, no? europeans expect a different taste too, although theirs is for more pleasant reasons
<directhex> ali1234: basically, brits expect chocolate to taste like cadbury's, which has an excessive quantity of vegetable oil in it
<Knightwise> good morning everyone
<Knightwise> how are you doing today
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm good thanks Knightwise - and you? Morning everyone else.
<diplo> Morning All
<Knightwise>  /join #ubuntu-ppc
<Knightwise> hey diplo
<Knightwise> how are you today
<diplo> Not bad thanks Knightwise, yourself
<diplo> Well saying not bad, my arse and legs are in agony but other than that!
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Biggggg cycle yesterday evening with a few pub stops, then cycled to work this morning
<diplo> May have over done it for someone as unfit as me :)
<Knightwise> lol :) know what you mean
<Knightwise> when i went running last time i had the same thing
<Knightwise> hmm..
<Knightwise> i'm looking around for some help with the install of Ubuntu on my ppc mac
<Knightwise> but the ubuntu-ppc channel is pretty silent
<diplo> I've never installed to a mac before, you having issues ?
<diplo> Just ask them and someone will probably reply
<MooDoo> morning all
<Knightwise> hey modo
<Knightwise> MooDoo:
<Knightwise> diplo: i'm gonna pop them a question in the chat
<MooDoo> Knightwise: hiya
<s-fox> Hello.
<Knightwise> hey s-fox !
<MooDoo> hi s-fox
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Azelphur> pfft morning, still havn't slept
<Knightwise> yooo dudes
<Knightwise> how are you
<TheOpenSourcerer> remember folks - just 14hrs before the EU Cookie law comes into effect - yawn.
 * AlanBell wonders if anyone will make any effort to comply with that
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * astromech guards his cookiejar and snarls at anyone coming close
<astromech> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey astromech
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm doing so for one of our larger clients :(
<AlanBell> bigcalm: interesting, what is the approach?
<AlanBell> asking users first, or not doing cookies?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: presenting a modal dialog box telling the user that the site uses cookies and linking to more information as to how.
<bigcalm> What's annoying is that this was thrown at me last night
<Knightwise> whereupon the average user says 'what the h*ll are cookies ?*
<bigcalm> I have enough on my plate already before going on holiday
<AlanBell> Knightwise: that is a major flaw in the whole thing, real people, who this is supposed to protect, just don't care
<Knightwise> just make a law that says : no third partie cookies and get it over with
<Knightwise> AlanBell: exactly
<brobostigon> or understand it, properly.
<Knightwise> AlanBell: it would be more logical to make a law that has sites declare when they are trying to install a trojan on your system
<AlanBell> it would be more logical to make it a browser issue
<Knightwise> AlanBell: correct. but hey .. that would be logical
<Knightwise> and legal and logical don't mix
<brobostigon> AlanBell: isnt that kinda already there, where you can limited cookies, or tell you browser, to pickup none at all, wihtin certain parameters?
<AlanBell> brobostigon: it is in some browsers, bit harder on mobile ones sometimes
<AlanBell> the EU could have suggested to browser developers that they improve on this
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i would agree, yes.
<brobostigon> definatly.
<ali1234> there is no way to fix stupidity
<AlanBell> then it would actually work on facebook and google etc which are exempt anyway becuase they are not EU based websites
<ali1234> if you try to put this in the browser you just get yet another pop up that has to be dismissed the first time yu use it and is never seen again
<AlanBell> maybe, or unity style notifications that pop up every time a cookie is dropped
<AlanBell> and a way to browse and remove cookies (like some browsers have already)
<ali1234> what's the point?
<ali1234> that's a terrible idea :(
<ali1234> the only way to fix it is make the browser go absolutely insane whenever a site uses a 3rd party cookie
<ali1234> treat it the same as a XSS attack
<AlanBell> it is a less terrible idea than getting websites to do it
<ali1234> firefox has it all wrong
<Knightwise> I prefer IE 6 :)
<ali1234> instead of displaying that scary warning on self-signed certs (which are more secure than "trusted" ones)
<Knightwise> at least that way you know you get ALL the mallware
<Knightwise> and don't miss out on anything.
<ali1234> it should throw a fit on cross-site anything
<AlanBell> ali1234: I agree wtih that, certainly
<AlanBell> self-signed certs are only a bad thing if you sell certificates
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18182280
<ali1234> cool, now the kids can learn how to deal with kernel panics and overheating hardware
<ali1234> and no, i don't think much better of arduino
<AlanBell> I am so glad I asked them not to ship it with Ubuntu 9.04 or whatever they were going to do
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ok to pm?
<bigcalm> Where's AlanBell wandered off to?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: sure
<bigcalm> There he is!
<bigcalm> I shouldn't be thinking about lunch already, should I?
<Darael> bigcalm: Why on earth not?  Food is always good.
<bigcalm> Darael: well, it's good to keep to fairly regular set times
<Darael> Bah.  Some of us don't have the luxury of the right body-type for that.  I graze.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prodity prod
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> One for popey: http://failblog.org/2012/05/24/funny-facebook-fails-failbook-also-the-reason-why-i-got-a-sex-change/
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> popey: working from home just isn't the same eh?
<popey> correct
<Knightwise> popey
<Knightwise> :)
<diplo> Anyone watching the #dragon vid from nasa ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: is this you coming out of the closet ;)
<bigcalm> That's right, davmor2. As a prank, I'm outing myself
<bigcalm> Oh I am such a rotter
<bigcalm> How is /rot13 not a default command on all irssi clients?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know I thought the mrs had locked you in one for saying she was 40 in public :P
<bigcalm> I'll be 33 in a month and a bit, don't see the fuss about ages myself
<bigcalm> 38 days that is
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but you're a bloke you're not meant to notice :D
<davmor2> brb kernel update reboot time
<diplo> bigcalm: I don't see the problem either, my friend I'm off out with tonight is 36/37 and his missis is 12 years older
<diplo> Lovely woman and they are really happy
<bigcalm> The fact that Hayley still gets asked for ID should be pleasing for any woman
<bigcalm> It annoys Hayley somewhat sadly
 * gordonjcp was asked for ID in Tesco a few months back
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: were you buying a Ben10 item and they thought you were too old?
<DJones> If people are happy together, thats what matters, there's 15 years between my wife & me, it doesn't bother us or our firends & family
<DJones> s/firends/friends
<davmor2> no-ones ask me for ID for age purpose since I hit 16 :(
<DJones> And I'm the old one, although maybe its a bit scary when I think that I left school when she was 6 months old :)
<bigcalm> DJones: heh :)
<DJones> Most of the people we know thought I was only about 3 years older than her when we got together, thats definately changes in the last 9 years together though
<ali1234> any idea why this "doesn't work" http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1004570/
<ali1234> (jquery)
<brobostigon> what is the group name, to give a user usb access?
<bigcalm> ali1234: what is firebug saying?
<ali1234> bigcalm: diddly
<bigcalm> ali1234: what alerts are being shown?
<ali1234> http://jsfiddle.net/AHAQF/2/
<ali1234> alerts one and two show, three doesn't show when you click button
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: beer
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: I wouldn't have minded if I wasn't quite so *clearly* over 18
<gordonjcp> or 21, or 25 or whatever arbitrary thing
<ali1234> it produces no error messages at all on console
<gordonjcp> maybe they have upped it to Challenge 38
<gordonjcp> buggroff, I have a grey beard and a PWEI t-shirt, do I look like I'm under 18?
<bigcalm> ali1234: I can make it work by putting $ before(function($) {
<ali1234> ah
<bigcalm> The (jQuery) is then optional
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> unfortunately that does not work on the real version
<ali1234> then i get "$ is not a function"
<ali1234> website version: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1004620/
<ali1234> ah i think i know
<bigcalm> So this won't work for you?
<bigcalm> $(document).ready(function() { ... }
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> yeah, i need to use that
<ali1234> because the DOM isn't ready when it has only loaded the header
<bigcalm> I run jQuery in compatability mode and set up $j to be my jQuery object
<bigcalm> And then run everything though $j
<bigcalm> That way I know that I have personally set $j
<ali1234> ok that doesn't work either
<ali1234> ok i finally got it to work... by writing jQuery everywhere instead of $
<bigcalm> Eugh
<bigcalm> You really shouldn't have to do that!
<ali1234> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1004644/ cf http://docs.jquery.com/Tutorials:Getting_Started_with_jQuery
<ali1234> i guess that is why that funny function wrapper with jQuery as a param
<ali1234> wordpress must have done something odd to jquery
<ali1234> it works!
<bigcalm> Lunch!
 * diplo is debating have a liquid pub lunch....
<diplo> Problem is will I come back :-/
<diddledan> ali1234, afaik jquery in wordpress is unchanged from upstream
<diddledan> they just simply call jquery.noConflict()
<diddledan> http://api.jquery.com/jQuery.noConflict/
<arsen> hi guys, new system using NIS auth for user login - logged into desktop which seems successful, but no menu/rightclick menu or desktop items/panels load?
<brobostigon> svn checkout http://yubico-yubiserve.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ yubico-yubiserve-read-only
<brobostigon> sorry.
<diplo> brobostigon: You can shorten that to svn co url
<diplo> or svn ci to checkin
<diplo> just fyi
<brobostigon> diplo: agreed, yes. i just tried the server software there, and didnt get it working anyway.
<vedreamer> anyone know anything about Ubuntu Partner/Reseller programmme?
<diplo> vedreamer: I believe AlanBell / TheOpenSourcerer are partners to Canonical
<diplo> libertus.co.uk
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo - not really.
<diplo> oh :(
<diplo> just remember it mentioned and checked your site
<TheOpenSourcerer> We were many moons ago but their partner programme at that time was non-existent.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So it was pointless.
<vedreamer> They give give much information away at the moment either
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have made many changes to it in the recent past so it may well be much better now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our services tend to focus on the business applications rather then the underlying OS so there doesn't seem to be much benefit to being a partner right now...
<AlanBell> afternoon
<vedreamer> Been discussing opportunities for private cloud consultancy with a colleague this morning. Relationships help :-)
<AlanBell> yeah, we are kind of "friends of" canonical but not partners
<AlanBell> they follow us on twitter but we unfriended them on facebook :)
<vedreamer> :)
<diplo> I hadn't ever thought of looking for ubuntu on facebook :)
<AlanBell> every so often there is a post from "Ubuntu" with about 400 ignorant and faily comments on it
<AlanBell> I have no idea how that happens
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I think jono
<AlanBell> yeah, I know jono posts things, I just don't get who the other people are
<AlanBell> facebook confuses and worries me
<popey> they are our target audience
<diplo> I use it for friends and that's it
<diplo> I use G+ for everything else
<AlanBell> I would use it for friends, but I added various bits of family, which has broken it for me
<arsen> hio all - anyone able to assist? have a user attempting to login via NIS auth, gdm login seems to work, gnome appears to load to some extent but no desktop items/panels/objects load, just a movable cursor + desktop background (no right click either)
<arsen> i suspect it maybe permissions related, as a local root account works fine?
<diplo> I've never tried arsen so don't want to throw ideas at yo and break more
<diplo> :)
<diplo> But does sound permission related
<arsen> well feel free if you know anything that maybe read at login that could cause it :/ initialyl had issues with NFS not being started, or atleast NIS not doing NIS automount before fstab automount, meaning no /home for the user
<arsen> but now that's sorted, just doesnt seem to load stuffs. i don't know much about gnome itself.
<arsen> strangely, xfce works
<diplo> Read through this ?
<diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNISHowTo
<diplo> Checked id of the user, see what it outputs ?
<diplo> Be odd that it works on Xfce and not gdm though if it was wrong
<arsen> yeah login works with other DE's too, not just xfce
<arsen> so its gnome and NIS related it seems
<dwatkins> go on, try this one: http://xpde.holobit.net/ ;-)
<dwatkins> (I'm kidding, it hasn't been updated in years, but it's amusing nonetheless)
<arsen> thanks.
<arsen> im wondering if its related to gnome3 - is there a config setting to enable fallback?
<AlanBell> anyone else find dual monitors randomly flip to "mirrored"?
<gord> not for me, on nvidia
<AlanBell> for me it is generally once about 2 minutes after I get it set up how I want it, then it is OK
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happens to me at some random point. Just happened after most of the day working fine.
<gord> could it be related to activity?
<AlanBell> possibly related to clicking in the laptop screen after a bit
<AlanBell> the displays dialog in generall has an over-fondness for mirrored
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord, what you mean actually using it?
<AlanBell> I never want mirrored displays evar
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\evar\evah
<gord> yeah, like i don't know, maybe the lock screen comes up and gnome gets confused
<AlanBell> doubt it is the lock screen, it is generally just as I start doing something interesting
<TheOpenSourcerer> I clicked a mouse button.
 * gord wonders why his default application for Calender is gedit
<popey> my machine locks up if i plug two screens in and move them about â¹
<ryanl23> Move the screens about or items on the screen?
<popey> the screens
<popey> in the display applet thing
<popey> my desktop monitor is behind my laptop not side by side, if i move the displays around to relfect that, then hit apply... BOOM!
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1002958
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1002958 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Precise) "Moving external monitor around hard-locks x" [High,New]
<ryanl23> Thats a bizzare bug haha
<popey> indeed
<diplo> gord: Mine was like that a few revisions ago
<diplo> Never found out why, or could work out why it did it
<ryanl23> Im not having that problem tbh....i do have problems with the nvidia drivers though...
<ryanl23> always have....pain in the arse..
<HilBilly_> g
<popey> J!
<HilBilly_> Tranquille ici
<popey> Oui!
<HilBilly_> etes vous un conaisseur de la nouvelle version 12.04 LTS par hasardÃ
<HilBilly_> Ã
<gord> thus concludes popey's attempt to communicate with the other nations
<popey> Bon.
<lucid> ..
<vedreamer> Gods teeth. Kernel been building all day
<MartijnVdS> vedreamer: on rpi?
<cocoa117> does the new Freeview HD for DVB-T require new tuner DVB-T2?
<diddledan> cocoa117, yes
<cocoa117> diddledan, my dvb-t tunner wont even see the HD channel, right?
<diddledan> that's correct
<cocoa117> got it, cheers
<diddledan> np
<MartijnVdS> T2, S2, C2 tend to be used for HD because of the increased bandwidth
<cocoa117> diddledan, is dvb-t2 tuner backwards compatible with dvb-t? do i have to keep both tuner for all the channels?
<MartijnVdS> They tend to be yes
<cocoa117> it seems dvb-s2 tuner is fine to receive all the SD channels as well
<cocoa117> MartijnVdS, got it
<MartijnVdS> S2 can receive S as well
 * AlanBell boots kubuntu 11.10 from CD
 * bittin downloads update to my android tablets rom 
<AlanBell> jussi is going to like the pictures that I just took :)
<AlanBell> well that was a complete success, Kubuntu CDs when left dangling in a chicken run for 6 months work perfectly
<AlanBell> Daviey will be pleased to hear I am now 'installing' Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
<czajkowski> evening
<Daviey> AlanBell: you are brave :)
<czajkowski> this isevning is turning out a bit badly planned, only getting down to have dinner and have yet to get ready for tomorrow :/
 * bigcalm looks in for a spell
<czajkowski> bigcalm: no spells in here
<AlanBell> Daviey: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6hbTxUq1FM8mSdHvm7uFptMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink the installation was a success
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I'll just have to stay for the company then :)
<bigcalm> Could do with some high energy electronic or dub step to get me though the evening
<Daviey> AlanBell: hah.
 * popey tickles bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Now up to 8 work spaces on my laptop :(
 * bigcalm vibrates popey
<czajkowski> hmmm my 12.04 seems a bit broken today
<czajkowski> did updates and now it's hanging at random times:/
<czajkowski> hmm 14 more updates lets hope there is something in there that can help
<bigcalm> Shouldn't you be running 12.10?
<gord> this early? thar be dragons
<czajkowski> I need a working lapotp
<czajkowski> though I do have old laptop lying aorund could do with that that
<Daviey> gord: you haven't heard of rolling stability ?
<Daviey> did you miss the memo?
<gord> oh right i forgot, everything works perfectly fine all the time now
<MartijnVdS> gord: except when YOU introduced bugs ;)
<Daviey> gord: i don't know about that desktop lark.. but server, i'd be inclined to say yes :)
<gord> is ubuntu.com on 12.10 yet? ;)
<Daviey> gord: oh, you are one of them.
<gord> yup! whos that now?
<cocoa117> is i7 always quad-core?
<AlanBell> no, we have a hex core server cocoa117
<cocoa117> in other word, i can't get i5 with quad-core, right?
<cocoa117> hold on, no
<cocoa117> sandy bridge desktop does, damn this thing is more complicated then i thought
<Azelphur> hmm, all the things are segmentation faulting.
<Azelphur> and I mean literally everything, I can't open chrome, terminal, nothing xD
<Azelphur> guess it's reboot time lol
<shauno> Azelphur: I had a strange issue last night where everything was exploding in the most delightful ways.  turned out I'd knocked the firewire cable out (booted off an external disk while I get my ssd rma'd)
<shauno> some of the most hellish error messages you've ever seen can start to make sense very quickly :)
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> shauno: ssd failed?
<shauno> popey: yeah
<popey> â¹
<shauno> not best pleased, but it's in warranty and I have backups
<popey> did it just fail one day?
<popey> no warning, dead?
<shauno> no warning at all.  was at work, powered it off, came home, powered it back on, it basically didn't exist
<popey> bummer
<popey> what make/model?
<shauno> owc mercury
<popey> ooh, bed time
<shauno> (not sure if they rebrand someone else's, but it showed up as owc in sysinfo too)
<shauno> backups are good, mailing disks to colorado for an RMA, not so good :)
<shauno> night
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-25
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments: Translations Needed For 0.2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/25/ubuntu-accomplishments-translations-needed-for-0-2/
<Knightwise> hey webpigeo1
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<czajkowski> morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<Azelphur> morning, no sleep for me :D
<DJones> Good morning
<Azelphur> anyone care to tell me how I might make this do what I want it to do? gksudo "echo 0 | tee /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope"
<diplo> Morning all
<Azelphur> morning
<Azelphur> here's a fun question for any bash people, if I run this from a terminal it works, if I run it from a desktop launcher it doesn't. http://pastebin.com/FGSHDa0U
<Azelphur> any ideas how to make it work? :)
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ali1234: care to elaborate on the yes? :P
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> firstly, echo 0 | sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope
<Azelphur> ali1234: what about it?
<ali1234> secondly, echo 0 | gksudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope
 * Azelphur slaps ali1234 around a bit with a large trout
<Azelphur> worked around it :D
<ali1234> write the whole script as if it was root and then put "gksudo script" in the .desktop
<ali1234> echo | gksudo tee doesn't work because gksudo does not pass through stdio like sudo does
<ali1234> gksudo /bin/bash -c "echo > whatever" also does not work because gksudo interprets the -c as an argument to itself rather than bash
<ali1234> there doesn't seem to be any way to escape it either
<ali1234> you might think gksudo "/bin/bash -c \"echo > Whatever\"" would work, but it doesn't
<ali1234> also gksudo /bin/bash -- -c "echo > whatever" does not work because the -- gets fed to bash instead of gksudo and then bash ignores -c
<MooDoo> morning all
<mje> Could anyone tell me what the equivalent of the following in the old /etc/inittab is for latest ubuntu systems
<mje> h1:35:respawn:/etc/init.d/init.ohasd run >/dev/null 2>&1 </dev/null
<Wobbo> "XChat-GNOME" cant save my default. Auto start with "#ubuntu" but i want "#ubuntu-uk" as well.... "auto-join on connect" No result.
<Wobbo> Another problem, Pidgin and Empathy can't us video/audio any more. All MSN stuff suck (sinds it was born), and gmails wont word...
<Wobbo> But the main problem is the not working item of Bluefish. Sinds Ubuntu 12.04, the option "Finds and Replace" doest work lice before. Just a PHP text, 300 names from $001_  to $002_ ...
<s-fox> Hello.
<Wobbo> Hi
<s-fox> Hello Wobbo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Wobbo> The Bluefish is solved. I am so crumby, no coffee today..!
<Wobbo> Good morning ass-well.
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<s-fox> Hello bigcalm :)
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> anyone know of an open source project to provide a 'cookie' toolbar ?
<andylockran> to become compliant with the new EU cookie law?
<vedreamer> What's the EU cookie law?
<MooDoo> vedreamer: all sites that put a cookie on your pc, must provide you a way of accepting it or rejecting it
<MooDoo> unless it's for shopping carts etc
<dwatkins> don't most browsers have an option to get permission each time a cookie is presented? I just assumed this is off by default in everything but lynx.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, but legislators are dumb (and "ask for every cookie" is annoying)
<MartijnVdS> so now there's an idiotic "cookie law" all over Europe
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yup :)
<MartijnVdS> Because cookies are obviously EVILS
<dwatkins> it could be worse, they could be trying to curb our freedom online.... oh wait
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: DOWN TO ALL COOKIES
<MooDoo> not even sure how they are going to enforce this
<MartijnVdS> fines?
<MooDoo> policing how many millions of website?
<brobostigon> so they expect, any site, however big or small, to comply with this?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes unless it's cookies related to the navigation of a site ie shopping carts
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ok, so i will have to change drupal, on my server, which has my mum blog on it, simply for the 3/4 people who visit it a month.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: that's what the law says....sucks doesn't it
<brobostigon> pointless more like.
<MooDoo> i know i know
<MartijnVdS> Just block all IP ranges that belong to the police and you're good :P
<brobostigon> maybe simply better, to scrap cookies entirly, and have everyone remember there login details, and such things.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: have a list?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: ah it's all to do with tracking cookies etc
<brobostigon> MooDoo: cant i just simply put a notice at the top of the page, recommending people review the cookie settings in their browser, and leave it there?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not sure to be honest, afaik people need to be able to allow/reject the cookie
<brobostigon> MooDoo: that was possible already by either blacklisting or whiotelisting cookies from said site, inside browser settings.
<MooDoo> yes but non tech savvy people are not going to want to know or learn how to edit settings in their browser
<brobostigon> hence me suggesting, people who visit, read about doing it.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: nah they won't, people would leave the site rather than read anything
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i wonder then, there is no real solution.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: well for wordpress sites, there is a plugin, visit the site, click yes or no
<brobostigon> MooDoo: so ie, that gives you the choice, as to if the site, puts cookies on your machine or not?
<MooDoo> yes
<ali1234> link to plugin please?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I've just set-up a cookie notification work flow for a client: http://www.totalderivatives.com/ (their visual requirements, so please don't blame me)
<MooDoo> ali1234: just search for eu cookie in the add plugin part of wordpress
<ali1234> totally derivative?
<ali1234> what's wrong with that visual style? it look sgood
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yes, i was thinking of something similer along those lines.
<kirrus> the hashsing on the background is making my eyes go odd
<kirrus> /hashsing/hashing/
<bigcalm> ali1234: more for the information page /cookies.php
<kirrus> in fact.. I can't stand to read it :/ .. I see what you mean bigcalm
<bigcalm> My client got me to set it up 2 nights ago :S
<kirrus> This seems like an effective solution, without causing so much disruption, but whilst still being pretty unavoidable: http://www.civicuk.com/cookie-law/index
<bigcalm> I think they were panicking a little. Hopefully they will improve the layout of the text at some point
<kirrus> just getting rid of the bars in be background would be nice..
<bigcalm> Those are the default that comes with jquery-ui :)
<ali1234> they should hire cookie monster to explain cookies
<kirrus> That would be awesome
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Worked myself silly again last night. Lost the will to work this morning
<bigcalm> Ug
<kirrus> bigcalm: go for a run or something to clear your head?
<bigcalm> I have to do battle with Apple Push Notification now
<kirrus> bigcalm: a madcap dash round the block then? Always helps for me
<bigcalm> This isn't the weather to be running in :)
<bigcalm> Maybe I shouldn't have had pitta bread and dips for breakfast
<bigcalm> Middle class leftovers yay
<bigcalm> What's tricky is that I don't have an iOS device. Having to rely upon my boss for sending test messages, and he's down in London today. Will be amusing :)
<vedreamer> I was wondering why big sites like facebook etc didn't do this then I noted the 12 months to comply bit.
<brobostigon> ok, i now have that cookie control thing, inside drupal, and seems to be working.
<davmor2> morning all and Happy Friday
<AlanBell> happy friday to you too davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: have a happy holiday!
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> AlanBell: you too dude
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
<dogmatic69> compiz decided it now needs 40% cpu to do anything
<dogmatic69> grey screens everywhere
<MooDoo> davmor2: how's it going?
<davmor2> MooDoo: sound as a pound there?
<bigcalm> davmor2: thank you :)
<bigcalm> How come just one machine in my house will redirect me to an unknown site when I enter a client's URL? Doesn't happen on any other machine.
<bigcalm> On this one machine, all web browsers do the same thing, including w3m
 * bigcalm pokes /etc/hosts
<popey> nothingspecial: https://plus.google.com/u/1/100694334141523232451/posts/e5NU3idyJzA
<bigcalm> Aha, was hosts fault, phew :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes it's ok, sun is shining, it's nearly the weekend, i'm on hols end of next week.  so not bad
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes looking forward to it, need to refresh a little
<brobostigon> http://blog.taylorworld.me.uk/ anyone recognise the drupal error?
<Knightwise> there
<brobostigon> at the top of the page.
<Knightwise> have managed to put lubuntu on an old G4 Imac (17 inch)
<Knightwise> and it works pretty well
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know that feeling
<MooDoo> is it beer o'clock yes
<MooDoo> s/yes/yet/g
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<selinuxium> Any KVM users about?
<selinuxium> Is anyone about?  :)
<AlanBell> only us chickens
<brobostigon> RAWR
<MooDoo> no one here
<MartijnVdS> Moooo
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: !ask ;)
<MartijnVdS> !ask | selinuxium
<lubotu3> selinuxium: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<selinuxium> Hey AlanBell
<selinuxium> Hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> selinuxium: hullo
<selinuxium> Hi MartijnVdS, I know about the whole ask thing  :) The question I have is around KVM not a specific KVM question.
<MooDoo> selinuxium: go one then ask away
<selinuxium> But to chuck it out there. Who uses it? How much fun are they having with it? I have been using VMware but now have 2 spare servers to play with... OpenStack vs eucalyptus vs anything else? Virt-manager vs convert vs convert2...
<MooDoo> selinuxium: i like vmware, been using esxi for months
<MooDoo> selinuxium: what about xen?
<selinuxium> Wasn't going to ask such a grand question. it is more of a discussion... I used to take these things offline but there doesn't seem to be much traffic in here today so...  :)
<selinuxium> MooDoo, never used xen... That would make the above question even more extrapolated
<MooDoo> lol
<s-fox> hey MooDoo :)
<s-fox> Happy Friday
<MooDoo> s-fox: hola :) same to you  :D
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are you this fine day?
<davmor2> happy friday s-fox
<popey> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<popey> 2x1080p running off a laptop \o/
<MooDoo> popey: you look happy :)
<MooDoo> ah nuff said
<AlanBell> how are they plugged in then popey?
<davmor2> AlanBell: for a second I thought that said how are they plugged in to popey?  I thought you were trying to make out that popey was a teletubbie :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: eho!
<bigcalm> davmor2: one of my client contacts is Lala
<MooDoo> sounds a bit dipsy to me
<davmor2> bigcalm: rather lala than gaga
<knightwise> managed to get Lubuntu working on my G4 imac
<knightwise> runs pretty smooth for an 800 mghz machine
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> AlanBell: I bought an 'ultrabay' which the laptop docks into. it has 1xVGA and 1xDisplayPort
<bigcalm> Isn't there a docking bay that can take a pci-e graphics card and thus give you 2 x dvi ports?
<DJones> Argh, great customer service from software supplier on their sales team telephone line "We're away from the office on Thursday 25th May, please leave a message and we'll get back to you"....... Is it me or is today Friday
<MartijnVdS> DJones: it might be
<DJones> I guess I didn't consider they could be in another timezone
<DJones> Stockton on tees must be a differnt time zone to the rest of the UK
<Daviey> I heard you need your passport to get out of there..
<dogmatic69> anyone know what handles 'plugging in your phone and detection' stuff?
<dogmatic69> got a bug I want to report
<dogmatic69> plugged in my iPad and a message poped up saying 'device is locked, un-lock it first [cancel|try again]'... cancel does nothing, just keeps popping up the error (clicked 10+ times), try again made the error go away
<diplo> Well that was fun, kids sports day
<diplo> Lots o flovely mummys dressed quite nicely for this heat
<brobostigon> flovely. interesting word.
<diplo> Sun stroke causing typos !
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Yummy mummies?
<diplo> Oh yes!
<popey> ahem
<bigcalm> Yummy popies?
<popey> \o/ late lunch
 * AlanBell prefers long lunches to late lunches
<popey> oo, bbc says nice weather tomorrow and sunday too
 * popey pops out to get MEAT 
<MooDoo> popey: and monday :)
 * daubers has a weekend painting
<lauraczajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> hello lauraczajkowski
<davmor2> lauraczajkowski: prod
<davmor2> I'd normally prod czajkowski but being as this new lauraczajkowski is about I'll prod them instead
<lauraczajkowski> joy
<davmor2> lauraczajkowski: you know it wouldn't be a normal day if I didn't :P
<lauraczajkowski> at a conference where ssh is blocked :/
<MooDoo> lauraczajkowski: PROD
<MooDoo> davmor2: tag team on this new lauraczajkowski ?
<davmor2> lauraczajkowski: well what geek is going to use ssh
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeap
<diplo> Not sure how many of you use nagios, but just having a tinker with hpasm
<diplo> Got to say very good, wish I'd used it earlier
<diplo> Anyone fancy giving suggestions for a server shutting down
<diplo> HP DL380 G7
<diplo> Shuts down at random times each day
<ali1234> bad caps
<DJones> Overheating?
<diplo> Different OS's ( So points to hardware I guess ) but can't find any faults anywhere at the mo
<brobostigon> what does syslog and dmesg say?
<diplo> Temps all seem fine
<ali1234> bad caps man
<diplo> That's the problem, they stop outputting
<diplo> caps ?
<ali1234> capacitors
<diplo> Capacitors ?
<ali1234> yes capacitors
<diplo> Any way without specifically testing them of saying yay/nay to that ?
<ali1234> is it happening more often with time?
<diplo> Temps looks fine btw, just using this hpasm nagios checker
<diplo> Nope, once a day at a random time
<diplo> Could be 10pm, 1am, 6am
<ali1234> how long has it been doing it?
<diplo> last month or so
<ali1234> has it ever done it before?
<DJones> If it was a similar time every day, I'd point to a cleaner doing the hoovering
<diplo> Nope, new OS is the only extra thing that's been changed recently
<diplo> heh yeah me as well
<ali1234> does it reboot clean?
<diplo> I think I've checked most of the standard stuff, was just hoping someone might have some other ideas
<diplo> yep
<diplo> Not reboot sorry
<diplo> powers off
<diplo> System halts
<DJones> Does it have a UPS fitted
<directhex> the G7 is xeon 5600 era. it's not capacitor related.
<diplo> There is a ups in the server room it's plugged into yeah
<diplo> ran memtest/hdparm
<ali1234> if it has electrolytic capacitors they can fail
<diplo> Only thing I have had come up with the hpasm commands is firmware upgrade needed on the controller
<diplo> But it was updated yesterday with newest from HP
<directhex> is it *shutting down* or is it powering off unexpectedly?
<diplo> iml CAUTION: POST Messages - POST Error: 1770-Firmware Upgrade Required.
<diplo> Powering off, logs just stop no entrys for shutdown
<diplo> Which points me again to hardware ?
<directhex> run if off another power supply?
<diplo> yeah tried that, duals - tried it singly on each
<diplo> Will see if the nagios checker gives us some info over the weekend I guess
<diplo> Or could try leave it running with a live CD for a day or two
<diplo> See if that also fails
<directhex> you said it was on a UPS
<directhex> are *both* power supplies on the same UPS?
<diplo> yep
<diplo> I don't know for defo but I would expect so, only a very small server room
<directhex> move one onto regular power
<diplo> Thinking bad feed from the ups ?
<directhex> yes. if the UPS is futzed, then it's a single point of failure
<directhex> i'd never run two feeds from the same UPS into one server. kinda defeats the porpoise
<diplo> A few other servers running from same UPS though, so should affect them
<diplo> Really, I used to run all my servers through one UPS, as did a lot of the people I used to go and see
<diplo> Couldn't afford/fit two in my last place
<diplo> I see your point though, but for me it was there in case of power failure, hadn't thought about if it had caused the issue
<directhex> if the UPS fails - and they do fail - then your server is down. better to have one feed with no UPS than both on the same UPS
<directhex> and your UPS will drain much faster in the event of power failure if it's feeding redundant power supplies
<diplo> I defo see your point
<diplo> I hadn't done that on my 60+ servers at my last job :D
<diplo> oops
<diplo> It was my first time designing a Server room
<directhex> when you have 400 servers, you get selective over what to UPS
<BigRedS> So many people plug both/all redundant power supplies into the same UPS
<diplo> yeah we got to that point directhex
<diplo> BigRedS: Lot's of sites I went to did yes
<diplo> Some quite large
<directhex> diplo, it's not until you have a complete power failure that you learn why you suck :p
<diplo> We had lots of power failures
<diplo> Just never a UPS one
<directhex> diplo, e.g. "oh bumfarts, the server is covered, but i can't power it off because the kvm and switch are not"
<diplo> The genny I bought in could pretty much run the building let a lone the server room
<diplo> UPS was only ever used for 30 secs max 
<directhex> yeah, at oxford we... used a lot of power. about 1300 units a day iirc for our server room
<diplo> All I can remember ( not been there for 2 years or so ) is that we ran about 26/27 amps a phase
<diplo> Which was getting close to the limit
<directhex> ... yeah. we were specced for two 32A plugs per rack
<diplo> yeah same :)
<diplo> Right, swimming lessons... catch you guys tonight
<diplo> Thanks for all your input!
<diplo> My kids lessons btw  :)
<directhex> 1MW feed, 60% allocated to room power (40% for cooling) makes... 2500A!
<directhex> by my sums
<MooDoo> has it gone all quiet?
<kvarley> MooDoo: Seems so
<ali1234> i've got a question
<ali1234> it may well be the most intellectually challenging question of the 21st century
<AlanBell> 42
<ali1234> i asked google, and google doesn't know
<ali1234> here is my question:
<ali1234> how does slash play guitar and smoke cigarettes at the same time without setting his hair on fire?
<directhex> fire-retardant hairspray
<gordonjcp> yup
<ali1234> wow, i actually found the answer. apparently the sweat puts it out. nice.
<popey> barbecue lit \o/
 * brobostigon smells a barbecue, from his eeepc, in his back garden, but popey is too far away.
 * kvarley is proud of his little venture today - http://kvarley.co.uk/tmp/RaspberryPi.CardCase.jpg
<jacobw> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o9
<kvarley> My friend is having difficulty installing proprietary drivers on Ubuntu 12.04. Is there anything obvious in his log? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1006823/
<ali1234> "fglrx"
<gordonjcp> hmm
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/949641 still not fixed, so it's probably that
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 949641 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "Installing both fglrx and fglrx-updates results in: error exit status 1 -"/etc/init.d/atieventsd exists during rc.d purge"" [Critical,Triaged]
<gordonjcp> "sudo apt-get remove --purge apache2" has left things in an impressively ruined state...
<mattt> haaaai
<diplo> evening ladies!
<AlanBell> anyone know the current best practice for having iptables rules come back on a reboot?
<mattt> sure
<BigRedS> that's one of those things that nobody agrees upon
<BigRedS> I like using shorewall for that
<mattt> no, i don't know best practice, i just add a pre up in interfaces file :)
<mattt> works
<mattt> perfectly fine
<Azelphur> Does anyone know of any software that allows you to use your PC as a bluetooth headset to answer your phone?
<Azelphur> so you don't have to keep switching headsets every time you get a call
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, I am reading lots of conflicting advice, most of it presuming a centos system
<diplo> AlanBell: iptables-save
<diplo> It's what I use anyhoo
<AlanBell> and then iptables-restore in in if-up script?
<diplo> I had a good example for my vps, two secs will make sure
<mattt> AlanBell: correct
<mattt> you can also iptables-save on post-down
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, iptables-save/restore is a pretty common way of doing it
<BigRedS> nobody's going to be surprised to find it
<AlanBell> so I have the output of iptables-save in /etc/iptables.rules
<diplo> yeah that's how I had mine
<diplo> Or could try iptables-persistent.. on my list to try
<AlanBell> oooh that would appear to be a better answer
<diplo> Not had time to try it yet
<AlanBell> I just installed it and it offered to save the current rules
<diplo> time = I am a lazy mofo :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that looks like it should work
<AlanBell> lets reboot the remote server with no emergency console access and see if it comes back
<diplo> lol
<AlanBell> down it goes
<AlanBell> why don't people make boot time a priority for server hardware
<AlanBell> they sit around contemplating their raid hardware and beeping randomly and flashing lights for ages
<diplo> It's all the checks isn't it
<diplo> Post checks, need to update the bios to something new / better, not uefi
<AlanBell> I don't want it to check, I want it to come back up
<diplo> And do something for the hardware cards as well
<diplo> I used to reboot file server at my old place of work, used to take 6-8 mins from Clicked Restart to fully backup
<AlanBell> if a server needs a reboot I want it to come back up before the phone rings
<diplo> Used to scare the bejeebers outta me
<BigRedS> AlanBell: then you're doing it wrong :)
<diplo> I feel the same way
<BigRedS> I really dislike all this recent effort towards speedy booting which can only be at the expense of other priorities
<AlanBell> well I don't tend to reboot servers, but when I do, I don't want to wait
<AlanBell> for booting up my laptop, I am fine with waiting, I can walk to the kettle and relax as it warms up
<BigRedS> They do tend to have fscks in the middle which would wreck that couple-of-second optimisation
<AlanBell> servers are the things where the boot time should be engineered faster
<AlanBell> yay, it came back
<BigRedS> well, they're perhaps the last things where anybody cares now, yeah. I don't still don't think it should be *that* far up the priority list
<BigRedS> er, I *do* still don't think :)
<BigRedS> When I'm rebooting servers, normally there's some work to be done on it which takes longer than the boot up by enough that there's more to save by me getting an electric screwdriver than faffing too hard with the  boot process
<AlanBell> normally when I am rebooting servers it is remotely as well, so I don't have any visibility of the reassuring flashing lights and beeps
<AlanBell> just 3 minutes of wondering if I mucked up the firewall rules
<AlanBell> and then happily I find that I didn't \o/
<mattt> need to get a DRAC / iLO man :-/
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> I'd hate to wait on a boot like that
<mattt> then you don't have to hold onto your butt when you reboot
<AlanBell> mattt: yeah, normally we have that on our servers, this is for a customer who wanted a different datacentre
<mattt> AlanBell: shoulda gone w/ hostchopper.com
<AlanBell> ours are in hetzner in germany, but this customer wanted it physically in the UK
<mattt> do boxes at hetzner have console ?
<AlanBell> good question, they have a console that can reboot the server, and do a rescue pxe boot
<mattt> ah
<AlanBell> yeah, no serial console as such
<mattt> i've had a box w/ hetzner for ages, need to cancel it
<AlanBell> the one I was setting up today for a customer is at https://www.openmindhosting.co.uk/
<AlanBell> dual hex core xeon thing, with raid0 SSD
<mattt> fancy :)
<mattt> what do your customers use these for?
<mattt> you run that odd erp stuff right?
<AlanBell> this one is vtiger
<AlanBell> 8 virtual machines running vtiger
<mattt> why don't they just put it in the cloud ?
<diplo> Still not tried Vtiger
<diplo> But I have enough things to play with
<AlanBell> mattt: how is this not in the cloud?
<mattt> AlanBell: oh, thought you bought metal and ran your own virtual machines :)
<AlanBell> yeah, which is a cloud :)
<mattt> uh
<AlanBell> unless you are defining cloud as "paying amazon"
<mattt> no :)
<mattt> no, and no
<BigRedS> a cloud is basically a botnet in a cabinet
<mattt> if you're paying a monthly fee, and you can't spin up / down at will, then not cloud
<AlanBell> we can spin up and down at will
<BigRedS> the whole point of "cloud" as a term is that nobody knows quite what it means
<diplo> I was about to type the same thing BigRedS
<AlanBell> just paying a fixed montly fee that is quite a bit cheaper than running 8 VMs with amazon
<mattt> AlanBell: to the max that the hardware supports
<mattt> people know what cloud means
<AlanBell> sure, then we buy another lump of hardware
<mattt> what are you lot on about
<BigRedS> mattt: yes, and they don't all agree
<mattt> right, and wait hours for it to get provisioned :P
<AlanBell> err, ok
<mattt> that's not cloud man
<mattt> seriously
<BigRedS> for a start, 'cloud' happens at all sorts of levels. I've seen Gmail described as 'the cloud'
<AlanBell> but spinning up another system involves purchasing an office, a warehouse, ~5 vans and recruiting 15 people
<AlanBell> waiting a day for a server isn't really a factor
<mattt> AlanBell: but i'm with you on the cost
<mattt> a lot of time dedicated hardware at a monthly cost will be far cheaper
<mattt> which is why i have my hetzner box :)
<mattt> i can slice it up as i see fit, much cheaper than buying individual instances w/ whoever
<AlanBell> amazon makes masses of sense if most of the stuff you occasionally want is turned off most of the time
<AlanBell> if you want stuff that is turned on all the time it doesn't make sense
<mattt> yep
<mattt> fully agree
<mattt> AlanBell: sorry, didn't mean to bash your opinion of cloud
<BigRedS> yeah, it's designed for people who have the odd, predictable spike
<BigRedS> it's engineered for something quite different...
<AlanBell> and if you want a fixed monthly bill from a regular company that will send you nice invoices and give you 30 days to pay by BACS etc.
<AlanBell> mattt: thats fine, it is always good to have traditional thinking challenged :)
<AlanBell> and also, by purchasing metal we can tune it differently, like our small, but fast SSD array
<mattt> AlanBell: what are you using for virtualization?  kvm ?
<AlanBell> yeah, kvm
<AlanBell> I wanted to do eucalyptus or openstack, but you need too many boxes to run the virtualisation before you run any actual stuff
<mattt> i'm guessing you could run everything on a single machine w/ openstack
<mattt> there's quite a lot of services tho, probably not an ideal setup
<shauno> I've heard 5-6 machines is considered the bare minimum for openstack.  and that's for a 'proof of concept' rather than an actual deployment
<mattt> shauno: i know for a fact that's not true
<AlanBell> shauno: yeah, I think the documentation is 6
<mattt> i've seen everything running on one, but then VMs on a separate machine
<shauno> well, that's what they're telling people when they present it
<AlanBell> I am sure you could do it on less, but I gave up on the idea at that point
<mattt> shauno: where did you see it presented?
<AlanBell> so I could buy â¬50*6 per month to get a system that I can add managed nodes to, or just install KVM and get on with life
<mattt> (openstack that is)
<mattt> AlanBell: yeah, i'm not sure how beneficial openstack is for 8 VMs anyway
<AlanBell> this isn't for our main infrastructure, this is one particular customer
<AlanBell> we have 4 boxes in hetzner now running an assortment of VMs
<AlanBell> we don't sell hosting as a standalone product, but we do provide hosting for our consulting customers
<mattt> ah right
<mattt> then openstack to manage that all may work
<AlanBell> one day we might re-visit that and use openstack
<mattt> are there more people in here interested in openstack?
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to be interested in it :)
<mattt> i never see or hear about london openstack meetups
<AlanBell> but right now KVM works great, virt-manager allows me to see all the VMs across all the hosts, I can't do some crazy dynamic stuff that openstack would allow and I don't really need to do
<mattt> (or uk ones for htat matter)
<mattt> BigRedS: :P
<AlanBell> I could in theory do a live migration between hosts but I don't think the network configuration would be seamless
<BigRedS> mattt: it's something that's on our radar at work, but we're not interested enough to have got round to using it anywhere, and we're not using it enough for anyuone to be forcibly interested in it...
<AlanBell> really KVM does everything I need, openstack would only be because I want to play with the fasionable toys
<mattt> BigRedS: i tested it personally about a year ago in the public cloud
<mattt> was kinda neat booting VMs on VMs
<shauno> I keep meaning to look more into all these new toys, but they just make me feel like a grumpy old man atm
<mattt> AlanBell: do all your hosting clients have VMs, or do any of them have shared hosting?
<mattt> shauno: yeah, so much to look at these days, not enough time
<AlanBell> all our clients have VMs, but one of our clients uses his VM for shared hosting
<AlanBell> graphic designer, small sites
<AlanBell> I dislike shared hosting
<mattt> for small sites it's fine
<AlanBell> I don't want one customer to be able to cause a problem that affects another customer
<mattt> AlanBell: does KVM have IO throttling ?
<AlanBell> I want to sort out disk IO quotas at some point
<AlanBell> no, it doesn't and that is a problem
<AlanBell> we have had VMs OOMing and killing the disk and taking out other VMs
<mattt> yeah, that's an issue w/ xen and xenserver i believe
<mattt> i know xenserver has some sort of io throttling, not sure if it works properly tho
 * AlanBell kicks of a 10GB sftp between Germany and London
<AlanBell> it keeps getting faster
<mattt> how do you back up your VMs?
<AlanBell> 10.9 MB/s
<AlanBell> gosh
<AlanBell> it varies, some of the VMs are actually "warm spares/backups" for on-site physical boxes
<AlanBell> so they have an on-site server, which backs up stuff nightly to the VM, the VM is always running the state of the database at close of the day before
<AlanBell> if the on-site machine fails they can just start using the VM and we will increase the RAM as required
<mattt> ah, neat
<AlanBell> others we back up to FTP space on hetzner
<AlanBell> and a few (mostly our internal stuff) with rdiff-backup to a 3TB drive in my house
<AlanBell> I think for this rig of 8 VMs we will back them all up to a single VM in Germany (then back that up to FTP space)
<diplo> Quite a setup AlanBell
<AlanBell> well it is pretty small fry really
<diplo> But I mean organised
<AlanBell> and we don't manage it as efficiently as a dedicated hosting provider would
<diplo> we run a small fry network, but it sucks
<diplo> I'm not allowed time to do anything unless it breaks
<mattt> AlanBell: the million $ question, how do you monitor it all ?  :)
<AlanBell> we would suck on the open market for hosting, we wouldn't be able to compete on price, so we just sell to our consulting customers
<mattt> diplo: where do you work?
<diplo> #small software company based in Nottingham, me and a colleague work remotely near Bath
<AlanBell> mattt: yeah, that would be another reason why we don't want to compete against the hosting providers with 24/7 staff
<diplo> Exactly what we do AlanBell
<diplo> The guys in my office know what they know, no more no less
<diplo> It's hard work at times, they aren't willing to try things
<AlanBell> we monitor it using the hetzner tools for pings and http fetches, and virt-manager for live VM overview
<AlanBell> we should do better monitoring really, but it is OK right now
<mattt> i've been playing w/ nagios these past few months
<mattt> a lot of people hate it, i really like it tho
<AlanBell> generally things just work, if they don't then we know about it fairly quick
<diplo> Ah that's one thing I have a good setup of
<BigRedS> mattt: you'll learn to despise it :)
<diplo> Really, I don't mind it BigRedS
<mattt> BigRedS: i started out with zenoss, i learned to despite that very quckly
<AlanBell> oh, one good monitoring trick, put irssi in screen on your most important server :)
<mattt> AlanBell: haha!
<AlanBell> so what do you monitor with nagios?
<mattt> so far, not as much as i'd like
<mattt> since a ton of stuff only runs snmpd, and i despise snmpd
<mattt> but it ranges from monitoring network latency/packet loss, SSL certificate expirations, site availability, service availability, rabbitmq queues, etc. etc.
<AlanBell> the openminds server is running snmpd, they monitor the hardware, that isn't our problem
<diplo> I monitor mainly http/latency
<diplo> But lot's of other stuff on some customer sites
<AlanBell> disk space and IO is what I would like better visibility of
<diplo> HBA Cards
<mattt> AlanBell: it's great for those :)
<BigRedS> mattt: you can have things running on the hosts themselves send nsca updates to nagios for things like diskspace and loadaverage and the like
<diplo> Can do all that, rrd info
<BigRedS> we use mon for that, but it's easy enough to write your own scripts to do it
<diplo> That's the part I haven't spent much at yet
<mattt> BigRedS: problem is we have a bunch of hosts that are stripped down, and we can't really install anything further ... fortunately they have snmpd running, otherwise we'd be at a loss
<mattt> diplo: i like graphite / carbon as an alternative to rrd-based things
<mattt> nagios can actually check carbon values too, so you can alert on your metrics
<mattt> or performance data
<mattt> err, whisper, not carbon
<mattt> BigRedS: mon ?  let me look
<cocoa117> after UK freeview change their frequency does it mean my crystalpalace dvb-t file no longer works?
<AlanBell> \o/ 10GB transferred
<BigRedS> mattt: ahh, yeah, we've got a load of general-purpose servers so adding crap like that is fine
<mattt> AlanBell: yay!
<mattt> BigRedS: yeah, i'd just go nagios+nrpe in that situation, until i realize that nsca is better (haven't looked into that at all)
<diplo> nsca is for windows ?
<diplo> I may be wrong, don't monitor any windows stuff
<mattt> fortunately no windows boxes in our env :P
<BigRedS> for windows? No idea, never monitored a windows box
<diplo> I monitored about 80 of them at my last job
<diplo> but used snmp with Centreon there
<mattt> diplo: sorry you had to go through that
<diplo> heh, we used to 99% linux when I joined, by the time we left we were 95% windows ( New Finance Director )
<diplo> Who as it turns out was sacked :)
<mattt> i was going to say
<diplo> But he also implemented SAP, so between the two...
<mattt> that seemed like an odd choice, for finance director :)
<diplo> We all believe kick backs
<mattt> anyway, time for me to crash
<mattt> night all
<diplo> gn
<BigRedS> mattt: I've no idea which is better, I just got here and we were using nsca so I've stuck with that
<diplo> Sod it, im off as well
<diplo> gn
<mattt> back again
<christel> with a renegade master.
<mattt> tidy little discount on nostarch.com -- code geekpride
<mattt> christel: hate that song w/ a passion :(
<christel> aww, sorry!
<mattt> christel: it's up there with the janga (jenga?) bus
<BigRedS> venga?
<christel> haha
<mattt> that's it :P
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-26
<AlanBell> morning al
<awilkins> NHS Hack Day!
<Azelphur> o.O?
<awilkins> Not cracking, hacking
<Azelphur> still wat
<awilkins> Train arrives, must gather self
<DJones> i was just about to tell my wife not to switch her laptop on so she didn't get hacked
<DJones> :)
<DJones> anyway who's idea is 18C at 8am on a weekend, too warm to sleep, too sleepy too get up
<DJones>  This is the life, lying in bed, updating a server using a tablet
<Mez_> So, I receive an email from paypal
<Mez_> from a known phishing address
<Mez_> (server)
<Mez_> but it's DKIM signed
<Mez_> and domainkey signed
<Mez_> correctly as paypal.
<Azelphur> o.O
<Mez_> I've tried sending it to spoof@ who say it's a legit email
<Mez_> But I don't believe them
<Azelphur> I'm curious, you can forward it to me if you want xD
<Mez_> (Email telling me that my account was in arrears... but it wasnt..
<Mez_> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<czajkowski> morning
<Mez_> hmm
<Mez_> thats what I thought
<Mez_> but its not working
<Mez_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1007759/
<christel> i didnt think your PP account could go in arrears
<Mez_> I think it can if someone charges back and you've spent the money
<Mez_> or if you lose a dispute or something?
<Mez_> but I'm rather concerned by that email
<Mez_> even if it doesnt go to a fishing site... it's not legit
<MartijnVdS> won't they try to get it back to 0 by charging your cc?
<Mez_> looks to be a test
<Mez_> but concerned that domainkey and DKIM is there
<Mez_> and correct, AFAICS
<Azelphur> Mez_: yea, it's definitely a phish xD
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: don't log in through the mail
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: type "paypal.com" into your browser and check it like that
<Mez_> MartijnVdS, I wouldnt XD
<christel> MartijnVdS: yeah thats what i would have assumed, that they just used the "funding sources" on file to balance the account
<Mez_> Azelphur, the link actually goes through to PP
<MartijnVdS> it looks legit
<Mez_> MartijnVdS, even though the links dont go to paypal and it wasnt sent by paypals servers?
<Azelphur> Mez_: that pastebin you gave is epicly corrupted fyi
<Mez_> Azelphur, how so ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's not, it's quoted-printable
<Azelphur> "2.=09Click =E2=80=98Add Funds=E2=80=99 near the top of the page." :P
<Mez_> what MartijnVdS said
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: the "List-Unsubscribe" is fishy
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: and the reply-to
<Mez_> and the servers it was sent through
<MartijnVdS> no wait.. that's the From: as well.. and it's @paypal.com
<christel> yet it is addressed to you by name so doesnt seem super generic
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: report suspecting phish on paypal.com, and check balance there :)
<Mez_> MartijnVdS, I reported it - i just get an automated email back even though I've asked for an explanation
<Mez_> saying it's legit
<Mez_> which I don't believe
<Mez_> espescially as the servers it's sent through have been reported for a paypal phish attempt before on a major scale
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> and that mkt2944 site is known for phishing
<MartijnVdS> isn't it just a big mailserver service provider?
<Mez_> yeah - as far as i can see
<Mez_> It's like a "mailshot" kinda email
<MartijnVdS> makes sense to use the same service provider as the one you're trying to spoof ;)
<Mez_> MartijnVdS, do you think the email is legit, or not?
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: do you have the GMail "show authenticated mails" lab hing on?
<MartijnVdS> thing*
<MartijnVdS> if so, does it show a yellow key next to the mail?
<Mez_> yes it does
<MartijnVdS> then gmail thinks it's legit
<Mez_> as I said - the DKIM/Domainkey is legit.
<Mez_> Which is why I think it's a massive security concern
<Mez_> as the email is saying  I've got a negative balance, which I dont
<Mez_> it wasnt sent through paypals servers
<Mez_> and is from a known phishing mail host
<Mez_> therefore - I'm concerned that DKIM/Domainkey has been compromised here
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: if spoof@paypal doesn't think it's a spoof, it's their problem
<MartijnVdS> Mez_: how would they know your full name though
<Mez_> MartijnVdS, because they can quite happily get that through G+ these days ?  Because I've got my name all over the web ?
<MartijnVdS> good pointw
 * Mez_ is rather concerned/disturbed by this
<shauno> that's a really odd one.  nothing looks actually wrong, just a lot of red flags
<shauno> mkt2944 doesn't look particularly scammy.  they're using markmonitor as their registrar.  and they're freaking expensive.  $40k for a one off, but you can beat them down to $10k in bulk
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> Mez_: presumably your account is non-negative?
<Mez_> AlanBell, yes. it's something like Â£6 positive?
<shauno> The more I look, the more it looks legit to me
<czajkowski> AlanBell: mail sent
 * MartijnVdS upgrades to Q
<kvarley> How can I find out what resolution a pdf file is?
<MartijnVdS> PDFs don't have resolution. The images in them can
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: what are you trying to do?
<kvarley> Trying to dump a pdf page to a jpeg without any change in size
<kvarley> It's an open source diagram but the author used a microsoft visio format so I don't think I can edit that
<kvarley> My bad
<kvarley> LibreOffice opened it perfectly =D
<kvarley> Sorry about that xD
<popey> Morning all
<penguin42> Hey Popey
<Seeker`> o/
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
<bigcalm> Goodness, is it only just afternoon?
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm :)
 * bigcalm dislikes getting work done on a Saturday morning
<bigcalm> Got Hayley's presents wrapped though :)
<bigcalm> Hey brobostigon
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<penguin42> hmm got my 1st 'we use cookies' warning
<ali1234> i got one yesterday by email
<ali1234> email!
<dwatkins> I got one from Rapid Electronics.
<ali1234> yes me too :)
<dwatkins> haha, and Domino's
<bigcalm> Bored of coding
 * bigcalm pokes popey with mc
<popey> yo
<StevenR_> Awesome. I walked two miles in wonderful leafy sunshine. I bought a printer. I walked two miles home, carrying the printer. I plugged the printer in, connected it to my precise laptop, and clicked next a few times, and now I have a lovely printer test page.
<StevenR_> from my previous dealings with printers (on any and all OSes), I expected this process to suck more.
<popey> Printers are devices for causing pain.
<popey> They also sometimes print stuff.
<ali1234> printers lol
<Seeker`> people still print things?
<Seeker`> other than circuit boards
<StevenR_> popey: yes. The good part of being a network specialist, is that if I can ping the printer, my work is done.
<Azelphur> printers?
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> yo czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey having a good wrekend ?
<czajkowski> weekend even
<gord> eurovision night \o/
 * Darael screams and runs away, cowering under a sofa.
<penguin42> heck, 381MB of upgrades to Precise in the last week?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: you don't like it? go install Windows!  ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..count your MB in GB
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh I'm ok with it, it's just unusual
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: for what it's worth - I updated 4 Ubuntu systems this week in less time than one windoze sys
<penguin42> oh I've never had Windows systems at home, and haven't used any at work for a few years
<dogmatic69> Vista service pack 1 back in the day was 1.something gigs
 * SuperEngineer is choosing between vallium, suicide or putting a hammer through the the tv.... anything to avoid eurovision
<popey> penguin42: yes including my very first package update to unity and bamf! :D
<penguin42> popey: How long did you sweat on it before doing the commit ?
<popey> far too long! :D
<popey> next week its lenses
<penguin42> :-)
<popey> my team have taken over releases of unity, bamf, dee, libunity etc
<popey> nice to get the gimp fix out
<penguin42> what was up with that?
<popey> of course we're just packaging the fixes everyone else does, and don't do the actual fixes ourselves
<popey> bamf isn't perfect
<popey> especially with multi-window apps like gimp
<popey> glad to see upstream have fixed that by making single window gimp ;)
<penguin42> yeh, pity that missed PP - I must give it a go
<popey> yeah, guess we can get it in a backport
<popey> once it hits quantal
<Daviey> popey: is your team the new Didler?
 * popey hugs Laney 
<popey> yes
<Daviey> super
<ali1234> single window gimp is not as good as it sounds
<ali1234> you might have expected MDI, but no
<ali1234> it uses tabs so you can't look at two images side by side
<penguin42> your gimp doesn't like being trapped in a single window?
<popey> erk
<ali1234> it's probably the weirdest thing i've ever seen
<popey> you cant open in a new window?
<penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't let you tear a tab off?
<ali1234> no and no
<popey> wow
<popey> thats demented
<popey> almost worse
<ali1234> it's like they implemented single window in the worst possible way just so they could later drop it because "nobody uses it"
<Daviey> I *really* wish they'd review the name of it.
<popey> fork it :D
<Daviey> go fork yourself. :)
<penguin42> Daviey: Yeh, it's really difficult to google for instructions on using the mask feature
<popey> best offer I've had all day
<popey> zoiks
<popey> just tried that
<Daviey> popey: hah
<Daviey> "gimp mask feature" .. first 3 hits for me are accurate :)
<ali1234> gimp masks lol
<ali1234> gimp doesn't support using a path as a mask
<ali1234> that really sucks
<ali1234> also it doesn't support adjustment layers
<ali1234> nor smart objects for that matter... they're not as useful though
<ali1234> the thing about the name is... if it had a better name, people would expect it to be actually good
<Laney> my god
<penguin42> yes?
<Laney> #thehump
<penguin42> oh
<ali1234> my money is on spain after they said they didn't want to win
<ali1234> i can see trolls all over europe voting for them just to try to bankrupt the country
<penguin42> yeh that's being suggested everywhere
<ali1234> of course it could have been the most amazing piece of reverse psychology
<SuperEngineer> my money is on Greece
<SuperEngineer>  - and LLoyds - and RBS - Nothern Rock
<SuperEngineer> please don't tell me we've turned into Ubuntu-Eurovsion.. please... please... please
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntuvision?
 * MartijnVdS is watching NED-BUL
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: When do you sing?
<ali1234> what's a NED-BUL?
 * SuperEngineer is singing now
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ball of feet
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: pre-EC "trial" football match
<MarquessDeBonBon> Anybody else watching Eurovision?
<MarquessDeBonBon> Russian grannies are on right now.
<MartijnVdS> I prefer good music :P
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: if football translates as ball of feet... I love to hear NED->UK for basketball ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah football translates as voetbal :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and basketball we don't bother to translate
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ooo - cutting!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah, practical reasons -- we speak English well enough
<MartijnVdS> also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korfball already took the proper translated name
<MarquessDeBonBon> Baskjetbjall.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: no Dutch != Swedish
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: most other nations speak Enlish better than [some] English peeps I know ;)
<MarquessDeBonBon> SuperEngineer: apart from Americans.
<MarquessDeBonBon> English is spoken in the US as if it's their fifth language which they only use when talking to their elderly grandma at weddings and Christmas.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: Americans speak a horrible version of English :)
<SuperEngineer> MarquessDeBonBon: that's because they think england is just a cute little American airbase
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they're wrong, that's Scotland
 * SuperEngineer giggles
<MarquessDeBonBon> And Wales is where Pot Noodle is mined.
<SuperEngineer> MarquessDeBonBon: you should see Gloucestershire.... we've got treacle mines!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://wiki.openttd.org/Climate#Toyland ?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: toffee quarries as well?
<MartijnVdS> Cola wells?
<MarquessDeBonBon> Little known fact: Gloucestershire is pronounced "Gloostershire".
<MarquessDeBonBon> True story.
<MartijnVdS> Plastic fountains?
<MarquessDeBonBon> I literally do not know where Gloucestershire is.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: it's pronounced "Here be dragons"
<MarquessDeBonBon> Is it in the north?
<SuperEngineer> no
 * MarquessDeBonBon opens up maps.google.com
<MartijnVdS> I tried typing it into google maps
<MartijnVdS> but I mistyped it as "Gloucestershite"
<MarquessDeBonBon> Well fuck me, it's almost in Wales.
<SuperEngineer> try slightly north of Bristol up the M%
<MarquessDeBonBon> That's why I didn't know where it was.
<MartijnVdS> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<SuperEngineer> ...& we are not welsh
<MarquessDeBonBon> The whole east of the UK is "here be dragons" for me.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: Welsh dragons
<MarquessDeBonBon> Well
<SuperEngineer> MarquessDeBonBon: & the west,apparently
<MarquessDeBonBon> Anywhere that isn't the Home Counties, Greater London or Essex is "here be dragons" on my mental map.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Scotland is like...Discworld.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Except the turtles are alcoholic wifebeaters.
<MartijnVdS> MarquessDeBonBon: Midlands? Yorkshire?
<MarquessDeBonBon> Never been there.
<MarquessDeBonBon> My strategy for when I find myself outside the HCs or London: "Get to St. Pancras".
<SuperEngineer> MarquessDeBonBon: are you sure that's not St. Pancreas?
<MarquessDeBonBon> I call it St. Pancreas.
<MarquessDeBonBon> Damn...this Danish chick is hot.
<daubers> Evening
<Laney> turkey so far tbh
<ali1234> why do javascript developers use so many anonymous functions?
<ali1234> it makes the scoping really difficult to figure out
<MartijnVdS> because they hate you
<ali1234> :(
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: don't worry, there's http://i.imgur.com/oH16b.jpg
<ali1234> :C
<DJones> Laney: When did C3PO get a twin and learn to sing?
<Laney> for small "learn"
<Laney> it's catchy :$
<Laney> i like it :(
<cocoa117> anyone here using Intel DQ67SW mobo?
<MarquessDeBonBon> cocoa117: what's the issue?
 * AlanBell wonders if it is too late for cake
<brobostigon> always time for cake, :)
<popey> why is http://www.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7343176.stm the 2nd most popular video on bbc now
 * brobostigon wonders, what people would vote for, in eurovision.
<popey> i have managed to avoid every single eurovision song and programme
<brobostigon> good idea.
<brobostigon> i did fnd, 1, maybe two songs, that were any good.
<AlanBell> it *was* time for cake. Chocolate Guinness cake.
<brobostigon> sounds yummy.
<penguin42> talking of cake; this is incredible: http://io9.com/5913308/this-tim-burton-zoetrope-cake-is-way-too-nifty-to-eat
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-27
<hamitron> is there a way to change the order of icons on the left bar in unity?
<hamitron> found it
<hamitron> drag the side bit of the icon does it
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Azelphur> morning :p
<Azelphur> someone needs to make it not be so hot
<Azelphur> http://gprime.net/video.php/kill9 :D
<popey> morning
<Azelphur> morning :)
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/135818/the-size-of-apt-get-update-lists-is-too-big is interesting
<popey> for me an apt-get update is ~20MB
<MartijnVdS> Debian uses diffs to make updates smaller
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: do they do it for packages too or just the lists?
<MartijnVdS> just the lists
<Azelphur> I see
<MartijnVdS> Woo
<MartijnVdS> $isp now gives me a free upgrade to Spotify Premium
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nice
<MartijnVdS> now to find some music I don't already have :P
<popey> i wrote a script to save spoify tracks as wav files on my local machine whilst I'm listening to them. Handy when I want to play them when on machines that don't have that app
 * popey boggles at http://www.cityinkexpress.co.uk (via Dave2)
<popey> i had no idea you could do such a thing let alone people sell them for most printers
<popey> good if you print a lot of pictures I guess
<Azelphur> ah yea I saw these a while ago, my dad always used to manually refill his cartridges with bottles of ink
<MartijnVdS> popey: at-home refill kits, you mean?
<Azelphur> yea
<popey> no
<popey> these have pipes that run to the cartidges
<popey> from an external resovior
<Azelphur> yea, the thing popey linked will run your printer forever and you just drop in new bottles of ink
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M7-qzb6kFBg
<Azelphur> probably the way it should be in all printers by default, really :)
<MartijnVdS> It sounds like something for rich people
<popey> looks like a little bit of faff to install it, but once done you're sorted
<MartijnVdS> with the prices of ink being what they are
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: opposite, bottles of ink are cheap, cartridges are expensive
<popey> nah, they're stupid cheap
<popey> and you transfer the chip from an existing cartidge so they dont commit suicide like normal ones do
<popey> or something âº
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QP_RnOYhGw&list=UUdeWZ--ehN5ogld7cJaYhEw&index=3&feature=plcp shows moving the chip
<MartijnVdS> glad I have a laser printer :P
<MartijnVdS> Toner cartridges last ages
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> guten morgen brobostigon
<brobostigon> moin jacobw
 * MartijnVdS plays the Doctor Who PS3 game
<MartijnVdS> it's a puzzle/platform game
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> is it any good, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> it's punny, at least ;)
<MartijnVdS> I haven't played enough to get the story started
<MartijnVdS> ooh cybermen
<MartijnVdS> and collectible hats 8-)
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I need a fez
<SuperEngineer> Raspberry Pi on TV ch4 now
<dwatkins> cheers SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> :)
<directhex> fez is okay
<directhex> but in the recent digital download game stakes, it's not in the same league as journey on ps3
<dwatkins> yeah, journey is next on my list
<bigcalm> Good morning peepies :)
<brobostigon> good morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> How's brobostigon this sunny Sunday?
<MartijnVdS> oooh
<MartijnVdS> f1 in an hour
<brobostigon> bigcalm: could be better, this heat is affecting my eczema. and you?
<bigcalm> Mine seems to be behaving right now :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :)
<bigcalm> I really should be packing for our holiday that starts in 6 hours :S
<SuperEngineer> bfn folkies... I'm off to [virtual] Monaco --- it's Grand Prix time [Live coverage 1205-1530, BBC1]
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * penguin42 yaaawwwnnns
<jacobw> utc is better than bst and cest
<directhex> jacobw, Swatch Beat Time is better than UTC!
<jacobw> interestage
<popey> Afternoon all, lovely day.
<Azelphur> too hot D:
<DJones> Azelphur: It can never be too hot
<Azelphur> DJones: it can be for bitcoin miners :(
<DJones> Heh, you'll have to put some of your gains to work with an air con unit
<Azelphur> got one, it's running flat out today
<DJones> :)
<Azelphur> unfortunately the rig heats the walls up which in turn heats my room up, where there is no AC D:
<DJones> I just took the dog for a walk, decided to take him out in the woods so we'd be in the shade for most of it
<ali1234> t's only 27C today, yesterday it was 29C
<ali1234> there's a breeze too
<DJones> We had a breeze yesterday as well, it was quite comfortable sitting outside with a beer and a BBQ
<ali1234> my neighbours are finally cutting their 2 foot tall grass
<DJones> Our neighbours are like that, we've been in the house 9 years, I've only seen them cut the grass twice in that time and despite having 2 children, they never use the garden, they've never sat out in it, had a bbq, played in it, seems a bit of a waste
<directhex> bitcoin is still profitable?
<Azelphur> directhex: hell yes :)
<Azelphur> \o/ found a bug in google http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/May/est%20time%20-%20Google%20Search-153638.png
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lies! :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ PI!
<funkyHat> Ï?
<MartijnVdS> raspberry!
<funkyHat> I got an email on Thursday saying mine has been shipped!
<MartijnVdS> I got my "shipped" mail on tuesday
<MartijnVdS> but no tracking code
 * brobostigon blows raspberry's at everyone.
<MartijnVdS> but I still got it!
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: evening :)
<funkyHat> Only problem is I had them deliver it to my parents' house, but I'm going back to my house in London tonight -_-
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: you got it today?
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: yesterday actually
<MartijnVdS> but I hadn't bothered to check my mailbox yet
<funkyHat> Nice, so mine should arrive in a couple of days
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: evening :)
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: I'm in .nl, that might skew the delivery time :)
<funkyHat> Ah right
<MartijnVdS> but it seems to have been shipped from the UK (Royal Mail, Farnell)
<funkyHat> WHY ISN'T MINE HERE ALREADY THEN. UNFAIR
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: are you far up north maybe?
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: no, Northampton
<MartijnVdS> where it's harsh and unforgiving, and mail trucks only come once a fortnight
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: so you're a bit north :P
<MartijnVdS> well mid
<funkyHat> I'm told that "north" is anything north of the Watford Gap. So Northampton is not north, but only just
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: Google Maps brings me to the same location for Northampton and Watford Gap
<funkyHat> â¢D
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: did you get a tshirt?
<jacobw> i've met americans who consider birmingham to be in the north
<jacobw> it's crazy
<funkyHat> s/americans/londoners/
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: no
<directhex> anything north of birmingham is scotland.
<directhex> except for the bits north of leeds, which are scandinavia
<MartijnVdS> directhex: and then there's Shetland
<DJones> hmmh, that makes me scottish then
<directhex> isn't that an arctic ice floe?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Faroe
<directhex> isn't that an arctic ice floe?
 * penguin42 puts on his finest Mancunian-Scottish accent for directhex
<bigcalm_laptop> Cooiee
<jacobw> hi
<MartijnVdS> \o
<michael__> Hello all - could someone please help with VPN?  Ive set one up to connect to where I work, used the same settings as those on my works laptop (which uses windows xp) though cant seem to find 'how' to connect to the VPN - its not listed under places >  Network.  Am I doing something wrong?
<MartijnVdS> michael__: what kind of vpn is it?
<MartijnVdS> michael__: openvpn? Cisco? ...?
<michael__> Oh Ive no idea
<MartijnVdS> then how did you set it up?
<michael__> just went to where my wifi bars sit on the top of the screen, clicked it, went down to vpn connections and selected 'configure vpn'
<michael__> (im using ubuntu 11.04 by the way)
<MartijnVdS> michael__: if you do "apt-cache search network manager vpn gnome" in a terminal, it'll show you all VPN clients/technologies supported by the GUI (install the relevant package)
<dwatkins> you probably need to know the hostname of the end-point, michael__ - you may also have to authorise the client machine
<MartijnVdS> it'll be added to the list of VPN technologies you get when you click "Add" in the networks dialog
<michael__> Openvpm is in that list of stuff I just got listed
<michael__> openvpn-gnome to be precise
<michael__> but nothing else I recognise
<michael__> just get this (sorry, should use paste bin I know but its only a small bit...) network-manager-pptp-gnome - network management framework (PPTP plugin, GNOME UI)
<michael__> network-manager-openconnect-gnome - network management framework (Openconnect plugin, GNOME UI)
<michael__> network-manager-openvpn-gnome - network management framework (OpenVPN plugin, GNOME UI)
<michael__> network-manager-vpnc-gnome - network management framework (VPNC plugin, GNOME UI)
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> if you're connecting to a Cisco VPN network, install network-manager-vpnc-gnome
<MartijnVdS> if it's openvpn, use network-manager-openvpn-gnome
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<michael__> its our work systems and I think they're all just Microsoft stuff
<michael__> The reason Im going this is I have a VPN system on my windows XP works laptop - that laptop has decided its going to be a pain in the backside tonight so I thought id just set the same VPN thingy up on my Ubuntu laptop
<michael__> Ive already got my work emails on here
<popey> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening popey
<bigcalm_laptop> Ello popey :)
<michael__> evening
<popey> haha
<popey> bigcalm_laptop: have you left yet?
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: if I were still at home, I would be using bigcalm via my proxy :)
 * StevenR_ wonders if laptop plus cables plus rucksack plus 2 shirts plus filofax plus washkit will exceed his baggage allowance for hand baggage
<bigcalm_laptop> If you ever seem me with this nick, it means that I'm away from home
<bigcalm_laptop> We're staying at Hayley's parents' for the evening then off for the coach tomorrow morning
<popey> ahh, nice
<bigcalm_laptop> Oh, and because there is no client attached to my irssi proxy, I get an email everytime my nick it highlighted
<bigcalm_laptop> Handy, but only when I'm not here on my laptop :D
<popey> bigcalm oh really
<popey> bigcalm that must be annoying
 * bigcalm_laptop kippers popey 
<bigcalm_laptop> I'll get 1 email with a few lines afterwards in a set time window
<gord> bigcalm_laptop, sooo why not connect to the proxy from the laptop?
<bigcalm_laptop> gord: haven't opened the ports on my router to do so
<gord> oh right, fairy nuff
<bigcalm_laptop> But I could do so at some point I guess :)
<michael__> ooo do either you bigcalm or gord know how to replicate my windows xp VPN onto my Ubuntu machine?
<gord> not me
<bigcalm_laptop> michael__: pptp?
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: arent you on holidays ?
<popey> 21:09:03 < bigcalm_laptop> We're staying at Hayley's parents' for the evening then off for the coach tomorrow morning
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: technically that's from tomorrow
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: ah cool, happy holidaying :)
<czajkowski> tyring to plan mine now
<michael__> you have to go easy on the jargon bigcalm as im not down with it.  Ive just written all the settings down from my windows machine, and punched them into the vpn settings box onmy ubuntu machine.  Pretty much as far as ive got so far
<czajkowski> heading to ireland for 10 days but thats not a holiday as still working
<bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: I've managed to get a few things done this evening which will make my holiday a little more relaxing
<bigcalm_laptop> michael__: not a clue then sorry
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: cool
<bigcalm_laptop> Amused that my boss commented on my facebook status
<bigcalm_laptop> Everybody telling me no
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: subtle :)
<bigcalm_laptop> :O
<bigcalm_laptop> No IRC?!
<bigcalm_laptop> Even in a non-worky way?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Lots of Pink Floyd on BBC4 tonight
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep, all marked, :). and get_iplayer set to record.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Sleeeeeeep
<bigcalm_laptop> See you kids in a week :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-20
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<SuperMatt> morning
 * MartijnVdS is back home!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<mungbean> favourite place you visited?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Minack theatre
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: see g+ for a video :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: The Minack is great isn't it. Did you see a performance or just visiting?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I saw Nerina Pallot there
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool. I've just wandered around it before, not seen show. Always fancied seeing a bit of Shakespeare there myself.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmPVS_iGK9U
<MartijnVdS> dear btrfs, what the HELL are you doing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice - not my cup tea musically but the setting is great.
<MartijnVdS> (thrashing, I know, but why?)
<SuperMatt> woo, I removed tracker (and gnome-documents) and now my PC is lightning fast
<MartijnVdS> I have neither installed and my PC is dog slow
 * MartijnVdS blames btrfs
<MartijnVdS> and the 5400RPM disk
<SuperMatt> I still haven't had a good experience with btfs
<SuperMatt> but the one thing I do know is that btrfs and vms don't really work too well together
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Monday and happy World Metrology Day! :-D
<MooDoo> lol
<Myrtti> metrology?
<JamesTait> Myrtti, http://www.worldmetrologyday.org/
<JamesTait> "Measuring stuff accurately", basically.
<Myrtti> right
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: metric or imperial?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yes, probably.
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I think, given that it's celebrating the signing of the Metre Convention, metric.
<JamesTait> But that could just be a cunning ploy to confuse the unwary.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Good thing only the US, Burma and (in part) the UK still use it then ;)
<BigRedS> I love how the UK has gone from using the 'confusing' imperial system to a more confusing mish-mash of imperial and metric
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yeah, but we'll convert the rest eventually. ;)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I had a speed conversion sticker on my window last week
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "50? Here? Oh wait they mean 80."
<JamesTait> BigRedS, the classic example being fuel - I buy my petrol by the litre, and measure my fuel economy in miles per gallon.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: See we do that in km/liter :)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I've also seen litres/100km.
<JamesTait> Just to really confuse things.
<MartijnVdS> but that's an easy conversion, relatively
<JamesTait> Except that its an inversion of what we're used to. 50mpg is better than 40mpg, so my brain is wired to think that 20litres/100km is better than 10litres/100km.
<JamesTait> Because the bigger the number in the fuel economy display, the better, right?
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> My SMART runs 20.7km/l
<MartijnVdS> at least, it did last week on long drives :)
<BigRedS> I only know fuel consumption in miles-per-tank
<MartijnVdS> I know driving to cornwall and back was not as expensive as I thought it would be ;)
<Laney> why can't i find anyone who delivers newspapers around here? doesn't that happen any more? :(
<dwatkins> Laney: don't the local newsagents do it?
<Laney> no
<Laney> i don't know of any friendly newsagents like that nearby
<Laney> sainsburys, tesco, spar
<AlanBell> fuel consumption should be measured in mm^2
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ml/mm
<MartijnVdS> oh you mean mmÂ³/mm? :)
<AlanBell> the units cancel :)
<AlanBell> 0.04831 mm^2
<AlanBell> is your 20.7km/l in mm^2
<directhex> rods/hogshead
<mgdm> that's the way I likes it
<AlanBell> 981600 rd/hhd then
<MartijnVdS> nanocenturies!
<mgdm> microfortnights!
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: light-nanoseconds!
<MartijnVdS> attoparsecs per microfortnights!
<mgdm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFF_system
<mgdm> "Another notable constant based on those units is the speed of light, known as "Strapp's Constant" (Jock "Strapp" Marshall), which is 1.8026Ã1012 furlongs/fortnight."
<mgdm> where the 1012 is actually 10^12, clearly
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> what happens to light-leapyears?
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS and AlanBell
<AlanBell> ah, light years are based on 365.25 days obviously enough
<MartijnVdS> Also, don't they use parsecs usually?
 * mgdm shrugs
 * MartijnVdS listens to some more CHVRCHES.. they should really release an album soon!
<mgdm> there's 3 and a bit parsecs to a light year, so unless it makes maths simpler I'm not sure there's much difference
<shauno> never thought about the 1/4 day.  I long for the day my fuel consumption has to be accurate to 0.003 lightyears
<mgdm> so that you can exactly predict when you have enough fuel to make it to the next service station on the hyperspace bypass?
<MartijnVdS> speaking of service stations
<MartijnVdS> They're almost twice as far apart as in the Netherlands
<shauno> which is why you go before you go.
<mgdm> I bet that's fun if you don't take that into account along with the miles/km difference
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: good thing my car can go from Harwich to Minehead (Exmoor) on just over one tank ;)
<mgdm> I have no idea where those places are, but it sounds good
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: Near Ipswich, and near Taunton?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: also, gmaps :)
<shauno> mgdm: what the rest of us know as "the south"
<mgdm> shauno: heh
<MartijnVdS> "The Souf"
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: yeah, when I get round to it :-) I know where Ipswich is
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: and Exmoor? :)
<mgdm> Still dn't know about Taunton, though
<mgdm> I've heard of Exmoor, don't know where it is either
<mungbean> middle of nowhere. its great
<shauno> Exmoor's difficult.  just when I think I know what they're talking about, I realise I'm thinking of dartmoor
<mgdm> shauno: when I used to live in Lewis I once went to a conference calling itself 'PHP North West', where I had to travel 300 miles south to get to it
<mungbean> holidayed in exmoor last yr
<mungbean> can recommend a nice place
<mgdm> err, 478 miles south, apparently. \o/
<shauno> I can't imagine there's much you don't have to go south for from there
<mungbean> i will be holidaying on portland island this year, thats pretty far south
<shauno> I've never lived much further north than glasgow-ish (gareloch/loch long).  anything past that is just a wilderness that we feed coachloads of bluehairs to
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I went to Minack theatre (near land's end), which was quite good :)
<mgdm> shauno: true, but it didn't stop me winding them up about their name
<mgdm> shauno: and, oi :P
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<shauno> so today's theme is vpns killing kittens :/
<MartijnVdS> death to kittens!
<shauno> I'm so close to a working configuration.  except it turns my wifi off the moment the server gives me the thumbs up.  perplexed.
<shauno> completely OT here, but .. grrrrrrr
<diplo> morning all
<wintellect> hey andre
<davmor2> shauno = "kittens"  lets see how he bands around the term kill kittens now :D
<shauno> I dunno, this grumble grumble is taking a pretty good shot at me too
<cptcel> hey everyone.. i just installed ubuntu, worked fine for about 24 hours, now i'm not sure what i did but unity doesn't load no matter what i do
<cptcel> i have a feeling it's because i tried to switch to nvidia drivers but now i can't switch back - graphical driver switcher fails to apply changes and dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg does nothing
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: BOO!
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> What's new?
<SuperMatt> a baby
<SuperMatt> relatively so
<ubuntuGod> hi all
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: yours?
<SuperMatt> no, I was just suggesting that babies are relatively new
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i think youi'll find babies have been around for millions of years ;)
<bigcalm> What he said
<SuperMatt> yes, but babies what are currently babies are quite new
<bigcalm> :D
<mungbean> mine is 8 weeks old: http://ubuntuone.com/0cImRHlVUg1Ri2ejsUYyvd
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> have you guys seen the interview with stallman on Unity ?
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<AlanBell> is there a new one knightwise?
<bigcalm> I wonder if popey ever got his train tickets
<davmor2> knightwise: is that the stallman monologue on how evil Ubuntu is and it's full of spyware?
<AlanBell> think I might try out this recipe later http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1505633/?utm_expid=13353178-7
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: marmite on bread?
<MartijnVdS> ah toast even!
<AlanBell> yeah, marmite on bread wouldn't count as "cooking"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: unless you made your own bread and/or marmite
 * MartijnVdS just had a "Broeders" beer, made by my brothers! :)
<MartijnVdS> Yay South of England ;) https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233
<MartijnVdS> Except 3 streets from popey's home, where I hit a curb ;)
<assymetric> Ubuntu is so facking terrible.
<assymetric> Ubuntu is so facking terrible.
<MartijnVdS> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<assymetric> Why teh fak is it so bloated
<MartijnVdS> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<Myrtti> assymetric: oh come on now
<MartijnVdS> assymetric: Do you have any specific questions?
<Myrtti> tadah!
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Stupid Question for the evening... I want to mount my S3 phone (Stock Samsung Android 4.1.2) on my machine so I can do some file management. Apart from Shotwell, everything else I try shows me just the top level completely empty directories in the S3 file system
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm on 12.04 on this machine.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you may need to install the new ptp layer (it's a PPA I think)
<MartijnVdS> also, set the phone from PTP to MTP, which is "multi"media not just photos
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've set it to MTP and installed MTPFS
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: mtpfs isn't the right thing.. you need the new & improved mtp libraries
<MartijnVdS> it got fixed in 12.10 or 13.04 I think
<MartijnVdS> and there is a backport to 12.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> You mean this? http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/upgrade-to-gvfs-with-mtp-support-in.html
<MartijnVdS> yes!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks installing now.
<AlanBell> are stupidly cheap things like this reflashable with ubuntu? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Android-TV-Dongle-Box-Stick-Smart-TV-Player-Mini-PC-wifi-HDMI-with-2-Host-USB-/261210498123?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Internet_TV_Media_Streamers&hash=item3cd15be44b
<penguin42> AlanBell: Ish
<penguin42> AlanBell: The freeness of the kernels varies and you don't necessarily get much choice - so you're stuck on one kernel for some models; some models also have very broken flash code that can only be unbricked from Windows
<MartijnVdS> even the cheap chinese crap ones?
<penguin42> AlanBell: The spec on that seems a bit odd as well, Allwinner A10 is Cortex A8 not the better A9
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Especially
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: *shudder*
<penguin42> The problem is it's very CPU specific; so A10 lots of people are working with, rk3066 has two levels of reflash where the deepest one is windows only to reflash (and I've bricked mine and don't have Windows)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - Still an empty list. :-D
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: does it work in other OSes?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't have any *other* OSes
<MartijnVdS> My Galaxy Nexus shows "Internal filesystem" in the root, then all the media directories and some app stuff further down
<MartijnVdS> (using nautilus, not an mtpfs mount)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Huzaah!!! Needed to log out to load the new gvfs I think. I can now see the file system
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yay!
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY MartijnVdS
<diplo> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o diplo
<diplo> How are we all ?
<MartijnVdS> Bit sleepy
<MartijnVdS> didn't sleep very well on the boat last night
<diplo> :(
<diplo> I've not slept properly in 2+ months
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Kid? :)
<diplo> I have 2, but nope
<diplo> ill :/
<diplo> Been going on for 5+ months now
<MartijnVdS> diplo: mungbean was complaining about that
<diplo> They think i have a thing called Horners syndrome, basically have a permanent migraine/pain in my left arm
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<diplo> Maybe a damaged nerve, but can't find it.. had MRI's and CT's amongst 20+ other tests probably
<MartijnVdS> that sounds very not good
<diplo> Nope :/ I could deal with the pain / problems, whats getting me more is 3-5weeks between appointments! So sloooooow
<penguin42> diplo: I'm glad I've got med insurance for that type of thing
<diplo> yeah, I'd prefer to pay Private and not NHS at times. Other times NHS can be great
<BLOOMBERG_> UBUNTU is garbage
<Myrtti> well at least this channel was saved from his outbursts...
<diplo> :P
<Jez> Hello.
<Darael> Greetings.
<Jez> Where might I find further support with regard to Auto-Apt, please?
<Jez> Specifically getting it install packages.  It keeps getting stuck trying to install them.  Then I made the mistake of running it under sudo and couldn't turn it off.
<Jez> Or exit from the Root account in the Terminal either.
<Darael> Auto-apt never did work for me the way I expected... I can't help myself, but I suggest #ubuntu as the main Ubuntu support channel.
<Darael> Jez: ^ - sorry for the delay in my response.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-21
<HM_> anyone awake?
<HM_> preferrably someone in the UK on virgin media
<penguin42> sorry, I'm not on VM
<HM_> I need someone with linux knowledge to collaborate a hunch regarding their shitty network, run a traceroute and/or ping
<HM_> penguin42: you're on demon, can you ping continuumdatacenters.com ?
<HM_> my VPS is there and I'm trying to find out why the fuck the entire data center is unroutable from Virgin media users in the UK
<penguin42> sure give me a sec
<penguin42> 64 bytes from cdc.io (173.243.123.51): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=123 ms
<penguin42> also pings from my bytemark vm
<HM_> grrrrrrr
<HM_> i've confirmed it works from by EU VPS, a friend on Bt infinity, now you on demon
<HM_> but nope, not Virgin media....they've fucked up their peering and blackholed the entire place
<HM_> first they fuck with my broadband, now they're fucking with my business website
<penguin42> it's possible it's not VM; I mean routing is damn complex and it could be some one else; but since both demon and bytemark can ping it, it doesn point to your VM
<HM_> complex my arse
<C-S-B> I've got a shell on a VM connected box if needed.
<C-S-B> and bt infinity.
 * penguin42 would gently point to the language rules on this channel...
<HM_> C-S-B: can you ping from your Virgin box to continuum?
<HM_> sorry
<C-S-B> HM_: sure.
<shauno> that's odd .. I can ping from home (upc.ie) and hetzner, but not from bitfolk
<C-S-B> ping continuumdatacenters.com
<C-S-B> PING continuumdatacenters.com (173.243.123.51) 56(84) bytes of data.
<C-S-B> 64 bytes from cdc.io (173.243.123.51): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=103 ms
<HM_> C-S-B: can you traceroute that and PM me the trace?
<C-S-B> HM_: ^
<HM_> i know this isn't ubuntu talk but i didn't know where else to find people in the UK
<HM_> especially tech savvy peeps
<C-S-B> HM_: What happens from your side?
<HM_> from my end i can't get past my gateway
<HM_> from the box itself (ssh'd in via a proxy on my EU VPS) i can't get past a dozen hops
<penguin42> it's less than 11 hops from my demon ADSL to it apparently
<HM_> nothing else seems to be effected just the Continuum IP range, which makes no sense
<penguin42> can you ping 100gigabitethernet13-2.core1.chi1.he.net ?
<HM_> nope
<HM_> i can't ping anything in 184.105.223.0/24
<HM_> Boom
<HM_> and now it works
<penguin42> routing hickup then
<HM_> nothing's a hiccup when it comes to virgin
<HM_> i've had extreme packet loss at peak times for a month
<C-S-B> HM_: I just had trouble from the VM connection getting to ubuntu to install traceroute.
<C-S-B> then it worked as you said yours did. Possibly related.
<C-S-B> Traced fine to continuumdatacenters.com
<HM_> traces fine here now as well
<HM_> but it was out for 40 minutes
<penguin42> still, I guess that shows that someone is actually using 100GbE - nice :-)
<C-S-B> or just an optimistic hostname :P
<HM_> yeah it's probably ethernet over fibre at that rate.
<shauno> wouldn't find 100g hugely surprising for he.net, to be honest
<penguin42> I knew you could buy 40GbE but hadn't realised 100 was around
<HM_> thanks for assistance anyhow
<C-S-B> np
<HM_> urgh
<HM_> but yeah, avoid virgin if at all possible
<HM_> 120 Mb/s broadband sounds nice but it's a pipe dream
<HM_> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/b3d0e6783f3ab5b874ecd250e18a80e1-20-05-2013.html <-- the red shows packet loss all morning today
<HM_> stopped dead at noon for no apparent reason
<penguin42> no infinity here unfortunately, so I'm stuck with ADSL2 or vm if I want faster
<HM_> infinity are available here now but switching is painful due to the fam
<HM_> they all use virgin email addresses, watch the tv package etc
<HM_> bundling doesn't make going to BT just for broadband cost effective
<MartijnVdS> Whoa.. flickr changed
<Myrtti> yup
<knightwise> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> 2\o
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> heh
<diplo> HM_: Conversation from last night I know, but I still have my virgin email address 3-4 years after leaving them, plenty of time to get people slowly moved over :)
<Myrtti> I need more tea, and perhaps even a glass of wine.
<Myrtti> and yes, it's again one of *those* mornings
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: at this hour?
<diplo> Wine?!?!!?
<diplo> :P
<Myrtti> atleast my death threat tally for today is still 0
<MartijnVdS> outgoing or incoming?
<Myrtti> incoming
<Myrtti> outgoing is too enumerous to count
<Myrtti> I just don't usually say them out loud or type them
<Myrtti> just cringe and twitch my hands :-P
<Myrtti> it's just so heartwarming when someone tells that they know where you are and what they'll do
<Myrtti> there's that little difference of twitching and saying and doing
<diplo> Freenode related Myrtti  ?
<Myrtti> I do the first
<Myrtti> diplo: yeah.
<diplo> That sucks, sorry to hear that
<Myrtti> but yeah, I definitely need more tea
<Myrtti> and yes, even if today sucks, I've had worse days. tea should help a bit.
<diplo> Suppose I ought to get second tea on, given up on alcohol so tea/juice it'll have to be :P
<knightwise> Mornin everyone
<diplo> Morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey diplo
<knightwise> how are ya dude
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, yourself ?
<knightwise> bogged down in a financial meeting
<knightwise> going to have to give some infrastructure and security advice
<shrik> morning all
<diplo> But on IRC, good work!
<shrik> 24 hours without the internet feels like AGES
<diplo> Great thing about this job, very few meetings.. pity the job sucks
<diplo> :P
<knightwise> diplo: only way not to fall asleep
<BigRedS> Is "The partitioner in the installer doesn't allow the setting of filesystem labels" too terse for a bug report? I can't think what else to say...
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Don't think "The partitioner in " adds much.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just "Installer doesn't allow the setting of filesystem labels"
<BigRedS> You're making it even shorter!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - do you mean the title or the actual report?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> the actual report
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: How about a screenshot and description of any error message (or not as the case may be)?
<BigRedS> There's no error message, just no "set label" button
<BigRedS> think I'll just file it and wait and see if it provokes questions
<Myrtti> popey: first hole in my nabees :-(
<shrik> TheOpenSourcerer: does "Print Screen" work for taking screenshots during installation?
<BigRedS> Presumably in the liveCD
<BigRedS> at least
<TheOpenSourcerer> shrik: Dunno. Good question though.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<mungbean> 1tb on flickr :-|
<BigRedS> blimey
<BigRedS> I keep forgetting flickr exists
<MartijnVdS> I was just in the process of switching to G+ as its photo bits are a lot better
<MartijnVdS> also integrated with social features
<mungbean> you are using 0.046% of your 1TB
 * mungbean closes the snobby 500px account
<Myrtti> I push my mobile phone photos to Google+ as a backup, but all the photos I actually care of go to Flickr. I hope their new Android app has some kind of automation
<Myrtti> I haven't yet looked
<mungbean> the slight thing about flickr is that it is now more "social"
<mungbean> but i only have 2 contacts on there
<mungbean> so it forces you to remove them all or add more
<mungbean> because their pics dominate
<mungbean> i'm glad they are trying to be awesome again though
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: phone version has no auto-upload
<MartijnVdS> also, I can't figure out how to do anything except "show photos my contacts made"
<MartijnVdS> *remove*
<mungbean> be patient, it will come
<MartijnVdS> I already auto-upload to Google. I don't need two backups
<MartijnVdS> <famous last words>
<Myrtti> I'd rather auto-upload to flickr...
<mungbean> +1
<shauno> kinda bizarre situation atm where I'd actually trust flickr to stick around longer
<MartijnVdS> shauno: my real backups are on my own physical media
<MartijnVdS> and at my parents'
<mungbean> mine are in amazon glacier
<MartijnVdS> g+ and/or flickr shutting down would only be an inconvenience
<mungbean> pay a few pennies for it
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I've got them there too :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: $1.50/month
<MartijnVdS> my NAS supports automatic timed backups to Glacier. Win :)
<DJones> Who needs backups, if ever you lose a file/picture etc, just email MI6/Homeland security and ask them for a copy that they've 'stored for security purposes' :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Of course. But convenience man!
<shauno> that doesn't actually seem impossible.  just cc your local MP on everything, and then file freedom of information request if you ever need it back
<MartijnVdS> or wait for a more (or less) reputable newspaper to do it for you
<MartijnVdS> "Whose nude pics are those, mr MP?"
<brobostigon> just found an interesting phrasing of a photo setting in android g+ app, "auto-awesome".
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, it creates an animated gif, or panorama, or some other coolness
<MartijnVdS> I think
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting,
<MartijnVdS> https://support.google.com/plus/answer/3113884?p=photos_auto_awesome&rd=1
<Myrtti> or does all the levels and contrasts and smoothing for you
<MartijnVdS> that's auto-improve, I think
<MartijnVdS> separate feature
<brobostigon> looks interesting,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the phone pics in my "England" album are auto-optimized
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: what is auto-optimised then ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that's the automatic levels/contrast thing Myrtti mentioned
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it makes colours a bit brighter, and makes more details visible
<Myrtti> mmm distracted by cookies
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: some good pictures there.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have a few more I haven't bothered to convert to JPG yet :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
<MartijnVdS> also.. land's end is a LOOOOONG drive
<brobostigon> loool
<Myrtti> admittedly my flickr and google+ has a lot of photos nowadays I can't watch, but that's life. I'd give you a link to my auto-improved pictures, but I auto-improved them last week and cried enough then, I'll wait for a few weeks before I'll look at them again.
 * Myrtti tries to distract herself with cookies again
 * mungbean looks at baby pics
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: your own? :)
<mungbean> yes, that would be....weird
<mungbean> even when baby is screaming i look at cute pics to remind me she can be cute
<MartijnVdS> haha aww
<mungbean> suppress the rage/furstration
<MartijnVdS> how did people do that before computers?
<MartijnVdS> or before *photography*
<mungbean> e.g. http://ubuntuone.com/0cImRHlVUg1Ri2ejsUYyvd
<MartijnVdS> mischievous smile
<mungbean> aww how could a cutie like that scream so much
<mungbean> etc etc
<Myrtti> mustard machine
<mungbean> colmans english
<mungbean> or, humbrol 24, trainer yellow
<mungbean> since breastfeeding stopped, we stopped getting the coarse grain mustard
<BigRedS> That was a really weird sentence before I read up to see the history. I sort-of wish I hadn't
<mungbean> heh context
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> i think a bacon sarnie is called for for lunch, :)
<mungbean> cannot sign into gmail chat from pidgin. looks like the xmpp droppage happened already
<MartijnVdS> that's quick
<mungbean> bad habit they are developing of ditching stuff at short ntoice
<Laney> i'm still on it
<shauno> federation was still working for me about 8 hours ago
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<Laney> morning UTC, anyway
<mungbean> seems broke now
<DJones> I thought Google were going to continue to allow xmpp connections from apps like pidgin
<mungbean> i wonder if its at all possible to get hangouts wroking on pidgin
<mungbean> DJones: don't look possible atm
<DJones> mungbean: This is what I was going on http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/hands-on-with-hangouts-googles-new-text-and-video-chat-architecture/
<Laney> just signed out and in, still works
<DJones> In the good news, bad news section
<DJones> "he good news is that Hangouts will still support client-to-server connections via XMPP, though only for one-to-one text chat. That means that Web and client-side chat applications that have used XMPP to connect to Google Talk will still be able to see presence information about their contacts in Google+ and chat with them via text in Hangouts. That news will come as relief to users of multi-service IM clients such as Adium, Pidgin, and Web-based an
<mungbean> fantastic
<mungbean> restarted pidgin and connected now :P
<penguin42> I wish I could still see presence data on the G+ web interface
<shauno> I think that'd require people to actually use G+?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: in the phone app, offline people have a faded-out icon
<MattJ> Google :/
<Myrtti> DJones: got cut off at Adium,  Pidgin, and Web-based a
<DJones> Myrtti: such as Aduim, Pidgin, and Web-based and mobile tools like Imo and Xumi.
<DJones> Didn't really cut much off
<Myrtti> what client are you using?
<Myrtti> if irssi, load splitlong.pl
<DJones> I'll have a look at it
<DJones> Ta, that works, I alreadey had it installed, just had forgotten to autoload it
<HM_> diplo: ty
<diplo> AlanBell / TheOpenSourcerer : What is the dedi server company you use in Europe, having a blank atm
<diplo> Begins with an H I'm sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hetzner?
<diplo> aha, was just about to type
<diplo> that
<diplo> Ta
<diplo> Still happy with them
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.hetzner.de/page_en.htm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep. No issues really.
 * AlanBell is also happy with them
<AlanBell> apparently not so great if you need lots of support
<diplo> No, we just use a company that sucks some of the time
<diplo> Either going with a VPS from them, or debating about a dedi box
 * penguin42 uses Bytemark
<diplo> Just don't understand how they're so cheap
<TheOpenSourcerer> Scale I think.
<AlanBell> bytemark and bitfolk are also good, probably better for vps, but we wanted cheap real hardware with lots of bandwidth
<diplo> My biggest downside is the server be it VPS/Dedi needs to be administered by some non sys admin people
<diplo> So our current people offer cpanel/whm with the VPS..
<diplo> Have debated wedmin though
<diplo> or ispconfig
<AlanBell> cpanel /o\
<TheOpenSourcerer> Arrggghhhh
<TheOpenSourcerer> That and Plesk. Bags of #fail.
<penguin42> diplo: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/symbiosis
<diplo> I don't use them personally, but they don't want to be to dependant on me :)
<diplo> So I'm open to any suggestions, thanks penguin42 looking now
<diplo> In 20+ years of this company running, I've wrote more documentation in the last 2 weeks than combined 10+ staff have in that time :P
<BigRedS> diplo: webmin has the distinct advantage that you can still administer the machine normally
<diplo> yeah.. going to set up a test box and see how the others get on with it I think
<diplo> They *know* cpanel and want that, but it also costs Â£10-15 a month extra..
<diplo> that symbiosis is opensource, maybe worth a play
<penguin42> diplo: I've not tried it
<BigRedS> webmin is a good deal less featureful than cpanel
<diplo> I think I'll order a plain old VPS, test that with webmin for a week, ISPConfig for a week and then maybe try that symbiosis for a week and whichever they like the most we can try for the last week a second time
<BigRedS> and you probably want to add virtualmin; lots of people seem to not notice it. Adds proper vhost support in apache & postfix
<diplo> yeah I had a quick play myself, about to move office soon and have a spare line so may even test on there
<diplo> I suppose I could test in a VM here later
<bigcalm> mgdm: is this still the best way of preserving numeric keys when merging arrays? http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.array-merge.php#40205
<mgdm> bigcalm: not something I do a lot of, but if it works then I don't see anything wrong
<bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough. Just a 9 year old comment is still relevant...
<davmor2> bigcalm: Alex has joined the 21century and got broadband :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: lucky lad. We'll never see him at the LUG again. Too busy downloading things
<davmor2> bigcalm: I said to him you want to download an iso just cause you can and be amazed at how quick it arrives, he said I've already got 13.04 installed.....D'oh
<brianb> hi
<brianb> have a problem with k3d
<penguin42> it would be better if you said what the problemw as
<brianb> having problem writing to disk
<brianb> says no write permmisions
<penguin42> where is it trying to write?
<brianb> to either a usb cd/dvd drive or the internal cd/dvd drive
<brianb> also canot see my internal usb drive when using home
<brianb> have ubuntu12.04 installed on a laptop
<brianb> k3d shows both drives
<MartijnVdS> KDE, there's your problem :P
<brianb> even brasero will not burn to cd/dvd
<MartijnVdS> any error messages?
<diplo> Error 503 Backend is unhealthy
<diplo> :(
<brianb> just seems to come up with error while burning unknown error occured
<MartijnVdS> brianb: does cdrecord file.iso work
<MartijnVdS> on the command line?
<brianb> im trying to burn a iso file
<MartijnVdS> brianb: yes, if you open a terminal, can you burn it using "cdrecord"?
<brianb> have not tried that
<MartijnVdS> because if you can, the problem is not in talking to the drive, it's one of the layers between the GUI and "cdrecord"
<penguin42> brianb: Oh, you mean k3b!
<brianb> and would that be on both k3d and brasero?
<MartijnVdS> brianb: could be
<MartijnVdS> brianb: the advantage of cdrecord is that it actually gives useful error messages ;)
<brianb> what command do i need to enter in the terminal
<MartijnVdS> brianb: where is the .iso file?
<MartijnVdS> in ~/Downloads?
<MartijnVdS> then:
<MartijnVdS> cdrecord ~/Downloads/your_file.iso
<MartijnVdS> If you have more than one CD/DVD drive, use:
<MartijnVdS> cdrecord dev=/dev/XXX ~/Downloads/your_file.iso
<MartijnVdS> where XXX = the device name of your drive
<MartijnVdS> (see dmesg, probably)
<brianb> yes a usb and the internal cd drive
<MartijnVdS> brianb: can you put the output of "dmesg" on pastebin
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> "cdrecord -prcap" prints capabilities of all drives, including their names
<MartijnVdS> if you could pastebin *that*, it would be more helpful than dmesg, I think
<brianb> ok im trying to use the cdrecord cmd first
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin :)
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<MartijnVdS> :)
<brianb> in the terminal it dects both drives but msg says wodim : no write mode specific
<MartijnVdS> brianb: can you paste everything cdrecord/wodim writes into the terminal on paste.ubuntu.com?
<brianb> how do i do that
<MartijnVdS> brianb: you can copy the text as usual.. with the mouse and right-click "Copy"
<MartijnVdS> brianb: then go to paste.ubuntu.com with a web browser, and paste it there
<MartijnVdS> it'll give you a link to paste here
<brianb> ok
<brianb> ive disconnect the usb drive and tried the cdrecord cmd trying to write to the intenal cd/dvd drive
<brianb> my url thats my email ?
<MartijnVdS> No, http://paste.ubuntu.com/ -> poster = "brianb", Content = whatever cdrecord says
<MartijnVdS> then click "Paste!" and it will tell you what to do
<brianb> ok
<brianb> i will redo the terminal again
<MartijnVdS> brianb: the URL will look like http://paste.ubuntu.com/12342342
<MartijnVdS> brianb: if you paste that here, we can see what you pasted :)
<brianb> just going to past
<MartijnVdS> ok, what's the URL of the paste?
<brianb> 5687505
<MartijnVdS> "Cannot load media"
<MartijnVdS> is the drive closed?
<brianb> yes
<MartijnVdS> brianb: can you pastebin the output of "cdrecord -prcap"
<brianb> yes
<brianb> 5687516
<MartijnVdS> It only detects one drive
<brianb> yes because i have disconected the usb cd/dvd and have tried to use the internal cd/dvd drive
<MartijnVdS> can you connect the external drive, run "cdrecord -prcap" again (and pastebin its output), please?
<brianb> so it should write to its internal drive
<brianb> ok
<MartijnVdS> yeah, but it thinks the drive is open and it can't close it.. for some reason
<brianb> do i need any media in the usb drive?
<MartijnVdS> no
<brianb> 5687540
<MartijnVdS> still just detects the one drive
<MartijnVdS>   Number of supported write speeds: 0
<MartijnVdS> Uh.. wut?
<MartijnVdS> Looks like the drive returns garbage
<penguin42> bit limiting :-)
<brianb> dont i have to put some media in to mont the drive?
<MartijnVdS> brianb: hm, maybe prcap only prints capabilities of the default drive
<MartijnVdS> brianb: let me check
<MartijnVdS> can you try "cdrecord -inq"
<penguin42> brianb: I'd say it's worth getting the info with media in
<brianb> ok tryed both cdrecord -inq and prcap with media in
<MartijnVdS> is the second drive detected?
<brianb> 5687553
<MartijnVdS> if not, can you paste the last screne of output of "dmesg"?
<brianb> yes i can access it via home
<brianb> the paste still appears the same even though there are two drives present?
<MartijnVdS> hence my question: could you paste the last screenful of "dmesg" output?
<brianb> yes just doing it
<brianb> its a large txt
<MartijnVdS> brianb: dmesg is large, the last few lines should be enough (10-20 lines)
<bigcalm> dmesg | tail -20
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: \o/
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Even better would be: dmesg | tail -20 | pastebinit
<MartijnVdS> but not everyone has pastebinit installed
 * MartijnVdS wants a TARDIS
<brianb> 5687593
<MartijnVdS> Or something that makes it the middle of june now
<MartijnVdS> brianb: cdrecord dev=/dev/sr1 -prcap
<MartijnVdS> brianb: cdrecord dev=/dev/sr1 the_file.iso
<MartijnVdS> one PRints CAPabilities
<MartijnVdS> the other should record.
<brianb> so what would you like?
<MartijnVdS> try prcap first
<MartijnVdS> then if that shows the capabilities properly try the recording option
<brianb> says the device is busy
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> sounds like some other program is using it then
<brianb> using the prcap do i need to take the media out?
<MartijnVdS> no
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: pastebinit is easy enough to install: sudo apt-get install pastebinit :)
<brianb> still says its buys
<brianb> says the device is\mounted
<brianb> its busy....
<brobostigon> question, and an interesting one, does such software exist, so if you take sufficiant and detailed pictures, it can create an type of 3d dimensions, from those pictures ?
<brianb> 5687625 for both
<brianb> any ideas what might be causing the problem
<WickedBInary> hi
<brianb> 5687658 another try without any media
<ali1234> brobostigon: yes it exists
<brobostigon> ali1234: what is it called ?
<ali1234> brobostigon: "the software that makes kinect work"
<brobostigon> ali1234: hmmmm,
<bigcalm> brobostigon: you want whatever they were using in Darkman
<brobostigon> bigcalm: darkman ?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099365/
<bigcalm> What I said would only make sense if you had seen the film
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ah.
<Guest60170> can anyone help me partition recovery with lubuntu and windows7?
<Guest60170> I used testdisk and it got the intact partition table. I then used the write options. then it asks to restart. and after that I get no change.
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<mgdm> evening bigcalm
<bigcalm> Having a fun evening, mgdm?
<mgdm> for some values of 'fun', I suppose
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011 - See http://oggcamp.org/
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Is there to be an oggcamp this year I wonder. August is only 3 months away
<bigcalm> As much as I enjoyed phpnw, it's not the same thing
<bigcalm> I see gpg support for Geary has been pushed from 0.4.0 to 0.5.0 :S
<mgdm> bigcalm: look at oggcamp.org
<mgdm> bigcalm: and you really ought to try and make Whisky Web next year ;-)
<bigcalm> mgdm: then there is hope!
<bigcalm> mgdm: humms
<bigcalm> mgdm: Yes, I probably should
<mgdm> I will make damn sure you know about it, at least
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> What month is it likely to be in?
<mgdm> April/May-ish
<bigcalm> Ok I'll try and cater for it :)
<mgdm> \o/
 * bigcalm grumblingly writes a spec
<mgdm> anything exciting?
<bigcalm> I had no idea that "grumblingly" was a word that didn't upset the spell checker
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> I wonder if there's a point where you're so far off the map that it gives up
<bigcalm> Heh, I think my phone does that
<bigcalm> Not an exciting spec. Just an admin interface to a gearman job queue within a project
<bigcalm> I don't think Geary likes me using 4 imap accounts. Damn thing keeps crashing
<mungbean> crashes with one fir me
<mungbean> uploaded logs to lp
<D_O_U_C_H_E> WTF
<D_O_U_C_H_E> niggers
<D_O_U_C_H_E> NIGGERS
<IdleOne> !ops
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<D_O_U_C_H_E> NIGGERS!
<D_O_U_C_H_E> LOL
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<D_O_U_C_H_E> BITCH ASS NIGGERS! UBUNTU NIGGERS!
<D_O_U_C_H_E> BITCH ASS NIGGERS! UBUNTU NIGGERS!
<D_O_U_C_H_E> BITCH ASS NIGGERS! UBUNTU NIGGERS!
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<Azelphur> !ops
<D_O_U_C_H_E> BITCH ASS NIGGERS! UBUNTU NIGGERS!
<lubotu3> Help!  dgjones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<D_O_U_C_H_E> BITCH ASS NIGGERS! UBUNTU NIGGERS!
<D_O_U_C_H_E> !ops
<D_O_U_C_H_E> !ops
<D_O_U_C_H_E> !ops
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<Azelphur> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-22
<penguin421> ah good
<MangaKaDenza> Ahh
<MangaKaDenza> Well
<MangaKaDenza> Thats over
<MangaKaDenza> bye
<MartijnVdS> I wonder what inspires someone to do things like that
<daftykins> what's that?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: some guy during the night spammed the channel
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> holy moly my blog got its' first legit comment in several years
<knightwise> mornin
<knightwise> congrats dweaver
<knightwise> daftykins i mean
<daftykins> knightwise: hehe thanks
<knightwise> I think that "comments" aren't realy the thing anymore since social media came around
<daftykins> there's comments that are possible through social media logins i guess?
<daftykins> although what way do you mean is the primary replacement?
<knightwise> yep
<daftykins> if there were an article, just linking to it via the social means d'you mean?
<daftykins> rather than comments
<knightwise> yeah ,but that doesn't help the article I think.
<knightwise> people nowadays share the article on social media and comment on it on those platforms
<daftykins> indeed
<knightwise> a petty realy because comments on the actual article enrich the content
<knightwise> its demotivating sometimes when you blog.
<daftykins> *nod*
<Myrtti> oh thats nice, no death threats from that spammer
<daftykins> mine are mostly just reports on how i solved problems
<Myrtti> good morning
<daftykins> hi Myrtti
<daftykins> now, to inflict myself on others today or not
<daftykins> that is the question
<daftykins> i tend to be a little crazy when i've not slept
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer
<daftykins> hypothetical question
<daftykins> you're cycling in a cycle lane at the road side, it's a bi-direction cycle lane, on just one side of the road.
<daftykins> someone is heading toward you cycling the opposite way, which side do you stick to? you're in the UK.
<daftykins> well, technically you're on my crazy island but it's English enough that it feels like the UK
<daftykins> any takers?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think the side nearest the motor traffic should face it. Similar to when you walk where there is no pavement.
<knightwise> to the right
<TheOpenSourcerer> 4 eyes better than 2 and all that.
<knightwise> (if you are in .be)
<daftykins> see i'd say stick to the left no matter what
<daftykins> well, in this cycle lane situation
<daftykins> since we're on the left on the road, why not consider the cycle lane a miniature road
<knightwise> bidirectional cycle lane = road
<daftykins> indeed!
<TheOpenSourcerer> was there any [ahem] protection between the cycle lane and the main road lanes?
<daftykins> well you're on a kerb
<daftykins> so think of it as <road here>___|kerb, cycle lane here | pedestrian bit here |<wall>
<TheOpenSourcerer> if there is some separation then yes, it's just another road.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We drive on the left.
<daftykins> i get so irate at other cyclists coming my way and them going to the right =|
<TheOpenSourcerer> With no separation (just a white line) I'd want to do the above, nearest side faces oncoming vehicles
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> this pales in comparison to the anger i feel when there are pedestrians walking in the cycle lane
<daftykins> apparently the cryptic hieroglyphics depicting a bicycle and a person are just that - cryptic :>
<knightwise> the great thing is you can run them over
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> have you got experience of that? :)
<knightwise> watched girlfriend run another cyclist of the road once because he wouldn't budge .
<knightwise> they were cycling side by side and thought that might girlfriend would yield.
<knightwise> she didn't and plowed the guy into the ditch.
<daftykins> ooooh
<daftykins> a game of chicken
<knightwise> while remaining upright.
<knightwise> she actually rammed him
<daftykins> they sound like lycra-clad roadies
<knightwise> lol
<daftykins> impressive!
 * knightwise 's girlfriend (now wife) IS impressive :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<Nafallo> http://t.co/68iVj9GKtB â slightly relevant ;-)
<daftykins> the other one yesterday, was a pedestrian strolling into the cycle lane to stand and await a crossing without looking left or right beforehand
<daftykins> naturally i expressed my sentiments on the matter O_.
<knightwise> Case and point :  Âµ
<daftykins> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> She is from Suffolk.
<daftykins> oh deary me, that's the exact attitude euthanasia is here to help
<daftykins> lol, quick delete your twitter account! that'll save the day!
<diplo> Morning all
<Nafallo> no evidence left if you delete the evidence ;-)
<daftykins> heya
<Nafallo> clearly
<daftykins> Nafallo: sounds legit
<daftykins> so has anyone else felt an angry phase in their lives? does it go away?
<shauno> no.  you're now officially a grumpy old man
<daftykins> aww :(
<daftykins> didn't even make it to 30 before it set in
<daftykins> this does not bode well
<shauno> and I can't stand cycle lanes.  they just seem to complicate everything
<daftykins> too true
<daftykins> a 50-something guy was just killed on the one i speak of recently
<daftykins> it's got some serious design flaws
<shauno> cycling with traffic, at least I know what I'm supposed to do, what they're supposed to do, where the pedestrians will be, etc.  everyone has a fairly sane set of expectations from everyone else
<daftykins> the pavement is so narrow at some points that the cycle + pedestrian lanes merge into one block
<daftykins> shauno: indeed
<daftykins> comment on that news story contains this: "We even have adopted a standard of unclipping from the pedals and putting a foot down every time, since the local police department objected to stopping in-place (doing a trackstand) at stops."
<daftykins> you won't get me doing that
<nucc1> i've played around with a few linux based network appliances that have something like "configure" where it asks you for ip, netmask and gw and does what it needs to do to /etc/network/interfaces. do we have something likethat in ubuntu?
<daftykins> if i'm at a traffic light i quite enjoy messing about rolling back and forth staying still without using the brakes or putting a foot down
<daftykins> nucc1: well you can configure network manager to apply static details
<nucc1> no, i need to reconfigure my network constantly
<nucc1> cos i use the VM for testing stuff.
<nucc1> gets tiring to keep editing the file
<daftykins> so it has to keep changing network?
<nucc1> yea
<daftykins> is there a specific set of them?
<daftykins> you could just make a set of 'interfaces' files with each one
<nucc1> nope
<daftykins> ah
<nucc1> the answer is no then.
<nucc1> maybe i'll think about writing one...
<daftykins> well don't assume my knowledge is complete
<nucc1> there's always that caveat
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> I think I'd revert to writing one there too.  if it's always static, it's basically bash+dialog & a here doc ?
<nucc1> yea, always static. just IP, subnet, and gw. there are often multiple interfaces though, one for management access and the other for the grunt work
<daftykins> if they change so often you don't even need to hardcode the config surely?
<daftykins> unless it does ever persist after reboot
<nucc1> often here is a span of a few days.
<nucc1> sometimes i need to power down the vm to spin something else up, having finite resources...
<nucc1> i've been at this for like a year now,
<nucc1> and got annoyed just now for having to do it again :p
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i did a lot of similar stuff when doing a virt project for my degree at Uni
<daftykins> got very handy at all the interface / route / DNS config lark that's for sure XD
<daftykins> although deleting a default gateway tends to be the one i fudge a few times before i get it right
<daftykins> awkward syntax on that one
<shauno> because I'm really bored, bash/dialog network setting thingie http://pastebin.com/n9gepLEZ    (result is something like https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23042/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-22%20at%2009.05.03.png  )
<shauno> wouldn't recommend actually using it (it just prints the results to screen atm), but dialog is fun for making bad bash look convincing :)
<Myrtti> daftykins: you're keeping yourself busy
<daftykins> Myrtti: in #ubuntu ?
<Myrtti> daftykins: *EVERYWHERE* :-D
<diplo> shauno: Bitfolk VPS ?
<daftykins> Myrtti: err... yeah a little too talkative i suppose
<Myrtti> it's fine, I just found it funnyy
<daftykins> shauno: nice one :)
<daftykins> Myrtti: daftykins is far more sedate when getting adequate sleep
<daftykins> :>
<Myrtti> hehe
 * Myrtti pours daftykins a glass of Crabbies from her can
<daftykins> oh my word you have Crabbies
<daftykins> you ma'am are my new best pal ^_^
<daftykins> good ol' alcoholic ginger beer
<daftykins> although 9am is a tad early to start methinks
<daftykins> though i appreciate the sentiment...
<Laney> i didn't know they did cans of crabbies
<daftykins> i've only seen glass bottles
<daftykins> but i sense that may simply be semantics
<daftykins> Myrtti: have you tried it with lemon as the labels suggest? any preference as to with / without?
<czajkowski> aloha
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> how do?
<Myrtti> yeah, we bought four to make ginger beer can chicken
<Myrtti> but ended up buying a Weber beer can chicken thingie instead of using the can
<Myrtti> daftykins: no I haven't
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy International Day for Biodiversity!  This year's theme is water and biodiversity. :-D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daftykins> Myrtti: i recommend it!
<daftykins> hey brobostigon o/
<brobostigon> hey daftykins
<SuperMatt> we should start having a sweepstake for this morning things
<daftykins> say what?
<shauno> diplo: yeah bitfolk, I'm on my mac at work, which is a bad place to sketch out that kinda thing :)
<SuperMatt> sorry, I was talking about JamesTait's morning "Day of ..." thing
<daftykins> oh to guess what he'll say the next day?
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, I'll have to find more sources then, otherwise it'd be too easy to guess. ;)
<SuperMatt> hah, true
<daftykins> i could've given you Liberation Day for the Channel Islands, the other week :(
<shauno> oh dear oh dear.  "ergonomics audit".   I guess that's my fault for saying I was bored
<daftykins> precisely
<SuperMatt> shauno: never, ever say you're bored
<SuperMatt> and if you are, walk around with a clipboard or something
<SuperMatt> *look* busy
<SuperMatt> never *be* busy
<shauno> I'm almost always bored.  it's half the job - staring at green dots waiting for them to turn red
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, are you dickturpin in disguise?
<SuperMatt> not that I know of
<SuperMatt> I'm pretty certain I'm just a regular guy
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, http://identi.ca/dickturpin <-- "look busy, never be busy" sounds like something I might read there. ;)
<daftykins> SuperMatt: pleased to meet you Mr. Turpin
<SuperMatt> mornign bigcalm
<SuperMatt> D:
<SuperMatt> I'm so confused
<bigcalm> Who let Pete in here?
<JamesTait> bigcalm, we think SuperMatt is Pete in disguise. ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<JamesTait> To be fair, there are *much* worse people to be compared to. :-P
<bigcalm> Well, if it means more people come to the Wolves LUG. Imposters or not
<bigcalm> JamesTait: like davmor2
<bigcalm> Now we have to wait until 11am for him to retort
<JamesTait> Yeah, exactly! :-P
<SuperMatt> I feel like I'm being made fun of, but I'm not eactly sure how
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: not to worry, the focus has sifted to davmor2 I think
<bigcalm> And shifted
<SuperMatt> oh god, this has just happened to me: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wisdom_of_the_ancients.png
<SuperMatt> http://xkcd.com/979/
<SuperMatt> literally one google result with the same error message
<daftykins> a googlewhack eh?
<SuperMatt> no no
<daftykins> oh was that a single word
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, and no answer?
<daftykins> i forget
<SuperMatt> lots of other "related" results, but nothing with the exact combinations
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: pretty much
<SuperMatt> daftykins: a google whack is supposed to be two words with one result
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i don't like that seemingly new Google style
<SuperMatt> man, so many other websites trying to be "cool" and "maintaining" googlewhacks have clearly misconfigured their servers because google is now brining back those results in the googlewhacks, thus making them not googlewhacks any more
<daftykins> 'hey did you mean to search for LESS words than you typed?'
<bigcalm> FEWER
<daftykins> oh piss off
 * bigcalm slithers back to work
<daftykins> be content i can spell Â¬_Â¬
 * SuperMatt imagines bigclam, instead of bigcalm, slithering back to work like Zoidberg
<SuperMatt> whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> bigcalmclam
<daftykins> doctor clam-berg
<mungbean> decided i'm man enough to pull off riding a "commuter scooter"
<bigcalm> Some people indeed know me as bigclam. christel is such a person :)
<SuperMatt> that's how I've always read it
<daftykins> XD
<SuperMatt> yuck yuck yuck
<SuperMatt> I hate logging in to our centos box
<daftykins> aww why so?
<SuperMatt> because it's icky
<SuperMatt> and because it always takes me too long to unscrew my *deb head and stick on my rpm head
<mungbean> can any clever peole tell me the difference between the following items on amazon?
<MartijnVdS> depends.. what are the items? :P
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Razor-13073001-A5-Lux-Scooter/dp/B002YD7K5E
<mungbean> and
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Razor-A5-Lux-Kick-Scooter/dp/B002EZZGJO
<MartijnVdS> I think they're identical
<SuperMatt> the size of the picture
<mungbean> one takes 2 days extra to order
<mungbean> and is Â£5 cheaper
<mungbean> description is different slightly, but i suspect there is only one model
<mungbean> weird eh?
<MartijnVdS> the cheaper has no reviews
<MartijnVdS> thoguh it's dispatched & sold by Amazon
<mungbean> yes, odd.
<daftykins> nobody can take you seriously talking about 'yum install' versus 'apt-get install' imo :(
<shauno> mmmm packages  *drools*
<daftykins> bad shauno, DOWN!
<czajkowski> ohhh I want pancakes now!
<Laney> we made sourdough pancakes the other day
<Laney> they were weird/tasty
<SuperMatt> mmmm... pancakes
<SuperMatt> damn this diet!
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: pancake diet?
<MartijnVdS> you can eat what you want, as long as it's pancakes
<bigcalm> Hayley has been making Slimming World pancakes. Odd but still enjoyable
<SuperMatt> I used to make gluten free pancakes when I thought I may have been coeliacs
<daftykins> i still have pleasant memories of Uni when my French housemates would knock on the door and say simply; "you want Crepes?"
<MartijnVdS> daftykins:
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: "No that's the next door"
<daftykins> ^_^
<bigcalm> Who doesn't always want crepes?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: when they're crepe ;)
<daftykins> i tell you, if they left the kitchen in a mess i wouldn't have taken their Crepes
<daftykins> *whistle*
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<daftykins> tough crowd.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: So, how long did you have to put up with their crepes?
<daftykins> just a year
 * bigcalm sneaks a Toy Story reference into a spec
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: to infinity, and beyond!
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: exactly!
<daftykins> bigcalm: ah specs! thanks for reminding me, need to tighten them before i lose a lens
<bigcalm> daftykins: get rimless specs, far fewer bits to go wrong :)
<daftykins> haha, they wouldn't go well with my cycling unfortunately
<daftykins> likely break a lot more often :S
<bigcalm> Only screws in my specs are in the hinges
<bigcalm> Aww
<daftykins> ah my lenses are clamped too
<mungbean> how strange. trying to call a major chain of shops and they have a central number. nobody picks up
<mungbean> ends up timing out after 5 mins
<Laney> impressed you held on for that long
<mungbean> i'm at the office
<mungbean> just carry on working
<daftykins> :D
<mungbean> its as if they don't want me to buy anything from them
<daftykins> i find that about trying to get people to do work for me on my new house
<daftykins> there you are trying to give people work and they don't phone back O_O
<mungbean> and why do all builders drive such flashy cars
<daftykins> umm
<daftykins> over here they tend to just be vans
<MartijnVdS> white ones
<daftykins> well, mostly white
<daftykins> no MOT over here ;)
<mungbean> thats their work car
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> don't see their domestic ones tbh
<mungbean> nor does the taxman :-0
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> mister tax maaaaaaan
<daftykins> i wonder if depression is abnormally high in tax workers
<daftykins> i was told a tale the other day of how a traffic warden locally would have people spit in the faces of his kids out on the town high street of weekends
<mgdm> w t f
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> bit extreme
<mungbean> how would they know? small town?
<daftykins> island
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> right i'm getting nothing done
<daftykins> so i best depart
<daftykins> later all \o
 * daftykins slices some lemon and hands it to Myrtti 
<Myrtti> namnam
<davmor2> bigcalm: man now I need to go dig through the backlog so I know why I need to slap you silly
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Morning
<davmor2> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pancakes
<TheOpenSourcerer> God I'm starving. Tummy is rumbling like an Oaklahoma Tornado...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was that not a good metaphor?
<dogmatic69> too soon
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry. My bad.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: your tummy was responsible for the Oaklahoma Tornado!  I hope you are ashamed of the damage you caused
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels suitably chastised
<TheOpenSourcerer> BUt still !"Â£$%^&*() hungry.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think I might need to go for an early lunch...
<davmor2> bigcalm: your saying I'm worse than the canonmiester....... You know the next Lug meeting, I'd wear a crash helmet if I were you :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: speaking of which, I can't make it next week. Meal out to celebrate Hayley's birthday
<davmor2> you trying to say that sat in a pub with a bunch of geeks isn't the ideal meal out for a birthday?
<bigcalm> I did suggest the LUG for said meal out
<bigcalm> She didn't give me a positive look
<mungbean> oggcamp isn't on this year, right?
<bigcalm> mungbean: no idea. The website is a single graphic
<mungbean> previous years, tickets have been out since end of april
<mungbean> wifey said i can go this year if its in the south
<mungbean> doesn't look like it will happen :(
<bigcalm> Maybe it's later this year if it's happening
<mungbean> since all the people involved got jobs with canonical ;)
<bigcalm> All being 1?
<mgdm> well, given the website says "Oggcamp 2013", I guess there's a decent chance it will happen
<bigcalm> Some how I don't see Fab working for Canonical
<mgdm> just because tickets were out in April before doesn't mean much
<mgdm> Also I selfishly would prefer it not to be in the south :-)
<bigcalm> Bring it back to Wolverhampton :D
<davmor2> The city of dreams
<czajkowski> are you sure that's what they call it
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeap everyone dreams of escaping it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sainsbury's has Chicken Phall as a ding meal :P
<JamesTait> bigcalm, +1 for Wolverhampton. ;)
<JamesTait> It's a nice steady drive down the A38 for me.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: straight along the A41 for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chuffing miles 'tup north for me :-(
<Laney> JamesTait: you derby-ish then?
<JamesTait> Laney, without the ish, yes. :)
<Laney> yay for more east mids-ers
<JamesTait> Laney, you're in Notts, right?
<Laney> sure am
<Laney> cycled to derby the other week
<Laney> there's a cool veggie cafe place near the bus station
<JamesTait> In Derby?  I tend not to go into town much these days.
<JamesTait> Then again, I go to Nottingham even less!
<Laney> http://goo.gl/maps/psHSd that
<JamesTait> I didn't know about that place!
<Laney> pay it a visit!
<davmor2> Laney, JamesTait: the best thing about derby is the A38 or the way out as I like to call it ;)
<Laney> The other time I went there recently was to get a bus straight out to Ashbourne :P
<Laney> Derby*shire* is great
<JamesTait> davmor2, you're just jealous of our mascot.
<davmor2> derby is a smashing place really it's just I only ever see the A38 as I travel through it to get up North
<JamesTait> Laney, yeah, we're quite lucky to have some great countryside very close by, and some pretty decent cycle routes too.
<Myrtti> peterborough
<JamesTait> davmor2, you'll have to stop by for a cuppa next time you're passing through - I'm literally 5 minutes' drive from the A38.
<Laney> ah p-town, me home city
<Laney> I wonder if the Met Lounge still exists
<Wobbo> Facebook doesn't work in Empathy anymore. Any tips or just wait until this bug (if it is known) solved?
<Laney> the "Success" thing?
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was in my Lorry Driving days I had a lot of deliveries to Sheffield and it is the quickest route from Wolves
<Laney> Wobbo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-signon/+bug/1180297
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1180297 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Opening facebook "Success" page in external browser" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> Wobbo: there's a workaround in comment 4 there
<davmor2> Wobbo: is there a button top right saying reauthenticate if so there is a bug for that too
<davmor2> Wobbo: top right of empathy that is
<JamesTait> davmor2, http://goo.gl/maps/PL7iA next time you're passing by, look me up. :)
<Wobbo> Thanks
<davmor2> JamesTait: that ram is just a wolf in sheeps clothing ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, better not bring the lorry though, we might struggle to make space for it. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Not driven one for a while I don't think my shoulder would take it :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I thought you were supposed to sit in the cab, not carry it! :-P
<DanChapman> Hey guys. If i have cloned a branch in launchpad, does bzr keep it in sync with new additions/merges or do i need to regularly update my local copy?.
<TheOpenSourcerer> DanChapman: bzr pull
<Laney> aka "no"
<Laney> or "no, and yes you do"
<Laney> ;-)
<DanChapman> TheOpenSourcerer: thats great thanks
<mungbean> installing .net v4 on a windows machine. EULA is in a box that only shows 2 lines at a time, (or 1 line if just showing the heading)
<mungbean> they *really* don't want you to read it
<BigRedS> The raring installer claims to need only 5.4 GB of disk space; surely it needs more than that by default?
 * awilkins powers up his Raring VM
<czajkowski> BigRedS: xnox or Laney might know
<xnox> BigRedS: 5.4 GB should be sufficient for a default installation + installing extra apps / language packs + have some space for your personal files.
<awilkins> Hmm, my Raring VM refuses to start a desktop
 * awilkins throws another 16MB of video ram at it
<BigRedS> xnox: really? I was expecting LibreOffice and that sort of thing to use that much space
<xnox> BigRedS: we are good like that.
<awilkins> The 12.10 install fits easily onto my 8GB thumbdrive
<BigRedS> Just wondered if it thought "Hm, no disk space, I'll not install $extraApps"
<BigRedS> xnox: you've even got room for two online accounts thingies! :)
<xnox> BigRedS: ideally you'd want more space, but it depends on your usage.
<BigRedS> Yeah, I have more, I just happened to actually read the dialog for once
<awilkins> 5.1GB used for a live install of Quantal
<shauno> that boggles my mind.  my ubuntu VM is <300MB
<n1md4_> hi.  does anyone what what determines the set resolution in X?  specifically if not used with a DE.
<n1md4_> .. short back story.  I have an htpc connected to my tv, and i'm trying to launch steam, but the resolution is wrong.  xorg says 1920x1080 but what's displayed is more like 800x600, and doesn't fit the screen (if that makes sense)
<n1md4_> ..and here is xorg.conf http://pastie.org/pastes/7931632/text
<SuperMatt> n1md4_: what graphics drivers are you using?
<n1md4_> SuperMatt: 304 I think
<SuperMatt> nvidia?
<n1md4_> sorry, yeah
<MartijnVdS> wow.. Google+ photo search got smart
<MartijnVdS> VERY smart
<SuperMatt> n1md4_: I'm really not sure if I can help. It may be an issue with your TV rather than the drivers
<MartijnVdS> you can search for "cat" and even if you never tagged a photo as containing a cat, it'll find pictures of cats
<MartijnVdS> same with lots of other words
<SuperMatt> that's quite cool
<SuperMatt> one of these days I need to upload my 80ish gigs of photos to google
<SuperMatt> still waiting on that google drive client for linux
<MartijnVdS> I have 100G of storage on Google, because I bought the Chromebook
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<SuperMatt> I have 100G which I pay very little money for :)
<SuperMatt> it's nice and cheap
<mungbean> SuperMatt: flickr?
<mungbean> 1tb
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but not very well integrated with other social stuff
<mungbean> http
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> that's not integration, that's composition ;)
<SuperMatt> I've never liked flickr
<MartijnVdS> I used to, but I like Plus more now
<SuperMatt> plus, I wanna put my pictures on drive so I can maintain the formatting
<SuperMatt> rather than picasa
<awilkins> Yeah, I watched Google IO and for "smart" I read "creepy"
<awilkins> The thing processes all your photos and marks them according to how important they are to you. Including... people who are in your family. People smiling. etc.
<SuperMatt> thing is, we all have to work out what makes our live better and what makes it worse. Does it matter that google knows I've taken pictures of a cat?
<SuperMatt> not really
<awilkins> Which means they are doing full fledged facial geometric reco on them all
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: does it matter that it knows you like pictures of cats? I don't think so.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: not just faces, also other things -- I tried "weather", "snow", "sunset", "car", "wheel", "train"
<MartijnVdS> all worked
<awilkins> Probably not. Does it matter that it knows you regularly associate with a particular set of people? Not until a totalitarian government decides they are worth hunting down.
<awilkins> I agree, in a perfect world it doesn't matter at all, but I don't see a perfect world forming outside my window any time soon...
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: nobody's forcing you to use it though
<awilkins> Indeed.
<SuperMatt> ok, it has so far found butterfly, lion, monkey and gorilla from my trip to london zoo
<SuperMatt> and it didn't find tiger, which I thought it might
<SuperMatt> lemme try cat
<SuperMatt> well, it didn't find the lion in a search for cat, but it did find dogs
<SuperMatt> uh-huh
<SuperMatt> it found my ex even though she's not tagged in anything
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yeah it's scary like that
<awilkins> So many people are going to love the photo-auto-adjust
<SuperMatt> right
<awilkins> Try "cupcake"
<SuperMatt> it knows which of my budgies is which
<MartijnVdS> wut
<awilkins> The only photo of a cupcake I have has "cupcake" in the caption
<awilkins> So it's not really a good test
<SuperMatt> aha
<SuperMatt> I don't think it's as clever as all that
<MartijnVdS> Lots of my photos don't have captions
<MartijnVdS> they're just auto-uploaded from my phone
<SuperMatt> so there's a gallery with my ex's name in it. I imagine that it picks names from gallery titles and captions and tries to work out what keeps reappearing.
<SuperMatt> which is how it knows which budgie is which, simply from titles and captions
<SuperMatt> you know what evolution needs? the ability to run just one section. So I can use it as a calendar without loading all the other components
<diddledan> SuperMatt, I thought that was going to be a rant on the state of affairs between religion and darwinism
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> any chance if anybody knows why my wifi card on my macbook air is so slow ?
<knightwise> I run 12.04 and have a broadcom BCM43223
<knightwise> 43224
<knightwise> after a couple of minutes its start to slow down to a crawl
<diplo> evening all
<DJones> Does anybody use (or have tried) Insync Google Drive, I'm wondering how well it works
<penguin42> insync?
<DJones> Yep
<DJones> Insync
<penguin42> what's that?
<DJones> Its a GDrive client for linux
<DJones> http://www.howopensource.com/2012/11/install-insync-google-drive-client-in-ubuntu-12-10-12-04-ppa/
<penguin42> ah
<diddledan> DJones, I'm using it. It works fine - documents appear as microsoftie formats, but other than that it's good
<diddledan> I lie
<diddledan> seems they're appearing as open document format
<diddledan> \o/ for the good guys
<DJones> I'm just trying it out now
<diddledan> in fact, why aren't I using that more?!
<diddledan> it's awesome
<DJones> Does it autostart on boot?
<diddledan> it's started when I login I believe
<DJones> Ta
<diddledan> don't you love that ubuntu tells you when a "package is of bad quality"?!
<diddledan> yeah, so google royally screwed everyone on storage costs - they used to charge $5 per YEAR for 20GB upgrade. NOW they charge $2.49 per MONTH for 25GB
<diddledan> upping to 100GB isn't so bad tho, $4.99 per month for that
<DJones> Hmmh, restarted but Insync didn't auto start
<brobostigon> i just thought of a great idea, mens clothing websites, should have a section saying, "these items are approved by our customers girlfriends/wifes."
<diddledan> might have to plop it into startup applications manually
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> brobostigon, I'm sold!
<brobostigon> diddledan: ummm,
<diddledan> yeah, that didn't come out right
<diddledan> I mean, I like the idea
<shauno> they should probably have a moral obligation to let you know when it's too late to dress like you're still in college
<diddledan> wait, it's too late?!
<brobostigon> aint that a great idea though ?
<shauno> it is actually a decent idea, yeah.  I'm hopeless at clothes.
<mgdm> "Dress for the job you want." - that's why I go to work in an Iron Man suit
<brobostigon> in that case, shouldnt i go in a sheldon suit ?
<mgdm> hehe
<mungbean> unity sidebar not working in this session. i could log out again...or?
<mungbean> any other suggestion to wake it up?
<mungbean> unity --repalce
<mungbean> got it
<ubuntu-gnome> hi i am trying to install ubuntu gnome. i already have ext4 partition with mint. in the live usb nautilus shows all the partitions properly including ntfs ones. but in the setup screen no partition table is shown. how do i fix this?
<Jez> Hello.
<Jez> Hello.  How do I get my Command Line to actually sync with the GUI?
<Jez>  I make a directory in the command line, nothing appears in GUI.
<Jez>  I try to go to a folder in my GUI home folder from Command Line, it says it doesn't exist.
<Jez>  I'm confused.
<zleap> I am logged in to bugs.launchpad.net how do I submit  bug report
<dogmatic69> zleap: in terminal 'ubuntu-bug <app>'
<diddledan> ergh, how do I go about getting access to a device when I've forgotten what subnet it's listening on let alone what ip address it has?!
<zleap> i am sure i did it with the website last time
<shauno> diddledan: go looking for it's LL ipv6 address?
<diddledan> I don't know how to do that
<zleap> ok
<shauno> diddledan: "ping6 -I eth0 ff03::1" .. everything in local scope should reply.  then you can go through them one by one and see what they are :)  (unless you can remember the mac address off-hand  hehe)
<diddledan> I've got the mac writted down in front of me - I tried arp table hacking but couldn't get a response
<shauno> the autoconf addresses are a mutation of the mac address, so just matching up the last few chars should narrow the list a lot  (unless you have a fiendish lan)
<shauno> this saves my hide more often than I care admit.  ping ff03::1 and ssh to the replies.  even if the v4 configuration is completely wrong  (and especially when the v4 is wrong)
<diddledan> I'm getting zero response from that
<diddledan> $ ping6 -I br0 ff03::1
<diddledan> PING ff03::1(ff03::1) from 2001:470:6904:8008:58f9:16dc:5829:93f4 br0: 56 data bytes
<diddledan> and then nada
<shauno> ah .. bridges are a little more awkward
<diddledan> fooey
<diddledan> will it work on windows - I've got one of those running over yonder I can play with
<diddledan> else I could reboot it to loonicks at a pinch
<diddledan> I should change my spelling of that to llewnicks
<shauno> I actually have no idea.  it should, I assume.  but I only have XP, which seems to take to ipv6 like a duck to astrophysics
<diddledan> joy
<shauno> what have you lost where?
<diddledan> an access point
<diddledan> thing is I don't think it's recoverable with a long-press on the reset button, 'cos it might be running openwrt which doesn't respond in such a manner
<shauno> hm, that could be fun
<shauno> would it be advertising any services?  or trying to reach any other machines?
<diddledan> I think it's set not to do dhcp, and so it's dumb as .. well .. me
<shauno> doesn't have to be a useful service, just anything that'd cause it to arp out for whohas/tell that'd show up in wireshark/tcpdump
<shauno> ie, if it's got samba, it'll spend all day telling anyone who'll listen what its wins name is.  just anything that makes noise on the wire
<diddledan> hmm, maybe the long-push reset did do something - it's showing up as SSID dd-wrt now
<diddledan> I can't seem to connect to it tho
<diddledan> [275995.988487] wlan0: authentication with d4:ca:6d:86:a2:2a timed out
<shauno> I gave up on arp stuffing because most the devices at work are a pain.  they'll only respond that way if you send them a ping of a specific size.  ipv6 broadcast has become my go-to
<daftykins> diddledan: can't connect to it via web management or wireless LAN?
<diddledan> daftykins, yes
<diddledan> both
<daftykins> i think dd-wrt sometimes uses a non-standard port, no?
<diddledan> fudge
<daftykins> is it one you modded with dd-wrt?
<diddledan> yeah, it's an old lafonera
<daftykins> could be just https enabled too
<daftykins> configuration could be locked down to wired only, directly in and not even via a switch between too
<daftykins> *shrug* all total guesses
<diddledan> tis all pretty academic if I can't find what IP it's listening on, though, no?
<daftykins> oh you've got that challenge too
<daftykins> yes indeedy ^_^
<daftykins> 192.168.1.x subnet could be a worthwhile attempt
<shauno> interesting.  that ipv6 broadcast ping seems to be completely useless on linux machines that have more than one interface
<daftykins> 0o
<shauno> machine with two nics, each connecting to a different lan.  if I ping6 -I eth0 ff03::1, it sends a ping from ipv6 address that's assigned to eth0, and gets replies
<shauno> if I ping -I eth1 ff03::1, it sends out to eth1, but still using the address that's assigned to eth0, so replies don't come home
<daftykins> sounds like bug talk to me!
<daftykins> in ping6 mayhaps?
<shauno> so I'm assuming the reason dan got no replies on br0 is because the source address (2001:..) it was using isn't assigned to br0
 * penguin42 admits to not understanding ipv6 addressing enough - but that does sound pretty dumb
<diddledan> got the blighter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!
<diddledan> it's ALIVE
<ali1234> oh hey
<ali1234> next time just look at the mac address and insert an arp table for whatever IP you want
<penguin42> send whats his name and whats hisname to retrieve....
<ali1234> as long as you get the subnet right it will work
 * penguin42 wonders where Nook got this supply of nasty USB connectors from
<daftykins> diddledan: what was the winning IP?
<diddledan> turns out it was actually listening on 192.168.1.1 - donno why it wasn't responding when I tried that before though - admittedly that was through an intermediary router when it didn't work
<diddledan> mikrotik.com <-- the dude is actually pretty useful (I'll leave GPL violations discussions for another day :-p)
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm officially full time bitcoin now, came off the benefits, got myself a business account
<Azelphur> :D
<diddledan> congratulations Azelphur
<Azelphur> ty
<shauno> hah, okay, I'm officially an idiot.  for some reason I had ff03::1 in my bash history so went with that because it looked good.  it's ff02::1.  sigh.
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> NOW you tell me!
<daftykins> shauno: DOH
<Azelphur> Santander is trying to rip me for Â£7200 though, which is fun :P
<shauno> that explains crazy results :|  (hey, I've been up since 4am)
<daftykins> exciting new bug averteD?
<shauno> sadly :(
<shauno> diddledan: curious though, try it with ff02::1 and see if you get a fun picture of your lan?
<diddledan> looks like 5 hosts responded
<diddledan> maybe 6
<shauno> do any of them end with the same ending of the mac address?  I'm curious if it would have worked if I wasn't a complete idiot :)
<diddledan> nope, none
<shauno> oh well
<daftykins> why'd they end with similar MACs? bunch of same brand gear, or VMs?
<shauno> the link-local addresses are usually generated from the mac address, so if you know the mac of the machine you're looking for, you can narrow down the list
<diddledan> my chair is far too squeeky
<diddledan> I think probably because I'm far too fat
<diddledan> cuddly**
<shauno> oh well.  I still like my little trick.  I have a script somewhere that iterates through the replies and pokes them with nc to see if/what ssh answers
<penguin42> shauno: That's what the privacy setting is for - right?
<shauno> no, that doesn't affect local addresses
<diddledan> the hotspot crowd still haven't figured out how to do ipv6 with a captive portal
<shauno> the idea behind that is that with autogenerated addresses, my IP is myprefix:mymac.  were I to connect to the same site from home, take my laptop to work, and then connect again there, they could match that the mac is identical, despite being a new IP
<penguin42> oh ok
<shauno> so with privacy extensions, you generate a random address for outbound connections (but still have the normal address).  so you have the predictable (autoconf) one where you need it (inbound), but don't advertise it by connecting out with it
<penguin42> hmm ok
<shauno> diddledan: I'd have thought that'd be quite easy?
<diddledan> shauno, you'd think so, but for some reason there's been argument and complaints that "ipv6 won't let you NAT, therefore captive portals are impossible"
<shauno> why does a captive portal require nat?
<diddledan> no idea
<daftykins> single point to transparently intercept behind maybe
<daftykins> *shrug*
<daftykins> but then any network should have that in the form of any gateway 0o
<penguin42> I assume they make it respond to every IP that the victim tries to connect to
<shauno> I'd have thought the annoyance would be that with privacy extensions, their address changes every hour so you'd keep forgetting who they are
<shauno> but the captive part is basically port forwarding.  forward outbound 80 to the handler unless they're on 'the list'.  and you can do that by interface, not by address
<shauno> I'm still annoyed that my lightbulbs don't have ipv6.  way to ruin a perfectly good stereotype.
<penguin42> what do they run?
<daftykins> shauno's bills sky-high
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> they're on zigbee, but there's an IP gateway for them.  but it only does v4
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> i've been tempted by some home automation gear
<penguin42> shauno: Can't you get a zigbee module for a PC?
<shauno> it just strikes me as ironic that the only device in my house that doesn't do v6, is the one that'd best match the "internet of things" stereotype
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> how many do you have?
<shauno> lightbulbs? or devices  lol
<penguin42> ip connected lightbulbs
<shauno> three
<penguin42> on/off or can you change colours or anything?
<shauno> all of the above :)
<shauno> colour/brightness/timers/etc
<penguin42> got them wired up to anything interesting?
<shauno> although I still haven't managed what I actually bought them for.  I want xbmc to dim the living room when I hit play, and back again when I stop/pause
<shauno> so far, just my calender.  so the bedroom lights turn on an hour before my next shift
<penguin42> haha
<shauno> working on getting my coffee machine to do the same, but belkin's protocol is a lot more cumberson - the lights are just http/json
<diddledan> HTCPCP
<penguin42> belkins? Is it a pdu?
<diddledan> HyperText CoffeePot Control Protocol
<shauno> technically, but with a single socket
<diddledan> it's a bona fide standard, dun'tcha know?!
<shauno> this; http://www.belkin.com/us/wemo-switch
<penguin42> US plug sockets look like they're really really scared
<shauno> it does work with ifttt, so it'd be prety straight-forward if I was still using google calendar.  but ifttt won't connect to arbitrary caldav sites
<shauno> xbmc is annoying me more though.  because what I've tried so far works fine from my laptop, but not on my appletv.  so it's less a case of making it work, and more an issue of figuring out just how badly python's been bludgeoned on the appletv
<penguin42> put your own python on?
<penguin42> ok, that's better - I can now build the nook kernel from source on my ubuntu box
<shauno> it seems to be using one that's been bundled with xbmc, which is complicating things a lot
<penguin42> almost as bad as Java
<shauno> plan to just replace the box eventually, but all my silly plans move at glacial pace due to budget :/
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-23
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnV1S> \o
<ali1234> is there a tool which will make a bunch of nested directories and small files? for testing filesystems?
<ali1234> i want a directory with 10 directories in it, with 10 directories in each of those, and then 10 files in every directory at every level
<ali1234> or even better i can choose...
<MartijnV1S> ali1234: for x in `seq 1 10`; do for y in `seq 1 10`; do mkdir -p $x/$y; done; done
<MartijnV1S> ali1234: add more nesting as required
<MartijnV1S> add a "touch" in there if you also want to test *file* entries :)
<ali1234> ok, what if i want it 100 levels deep?
<MartijnV1S> P="."; for x in `seq 1 100`; do P="$P/$x"; mkdir $P; done
<ali1234> that won't make a tree...
<MartijnV1S> ali1234: it makes 1/2/3/4/5 for me
<ali1234> i want 1/1/1/1/1/1... * 100 to 100/100/100/100/100... * 100
<MartijnV1S> just merge the two command lines I posted
<ali1234> ie 100^100 directories
<MartijnV1S> will that even fit?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> but the point is, i want it to be arbitrary depth and width
<MartijnVdS> time to break out ye olde perle interpretere
<ali1234> you mean pythonr ight
<MartijnVdS> if you're so inclined
<ali1234> hmm why can't i chown a file so i am not the owner of it?
<MartijnVdS> only if you;re root
<ali1234> well that is annoying
<ali1234> how can i make a file that i can't delete without being root?
<MartijnVdS> chattr +i ?
<MartijnVdS> you can still delete it
<MartijnVdS> (if you chattr -i it)
<MartijnVdS> but it's harder
<ali1234> it has to make nautilus pop up an error while deleting
<MartijnVdS> I think chattr does
<ali1234> here is the deal: the new nautilus has that combined file progress dialogue
<ali1234> so you copy or delete files and it puts them all in one window
<MartijnVdS> chattr doesn't work on btrfs though
<ali1234> but there is a catch: errors still go to the window where you started the copy
<MartijnVdS> even if you closed that window?
<ali1234> and if you closed that window the error never pps up
<MartijnVdS> fial
<ali1234> and the operation just stalls
<ali1234> and what is more, no further error from any operation will ever be shown
<MartijnVdS> that's .. bad
<ali1234> so i am trying to make a testcase for this
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: use a directory with a few ISOs, delete one of the ISOs before nautilus gets to it
<MartijnVdS> or rename it
<ali1234> also if you close the stalled operation group window then a new one will never appear
<ali1234> so from then on you are working completely blind
<ali1234> so i want a small script to make all the files etc
<ali1234> and then say "run this, delete the direct in nautilus, close the window"
<ali1234> so i need a big directory structure to give time to actually close the window
<ali1234> and i need a file that will cuase an error when nautilus tries to delete it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or copy a number of large files
<ali1234> hmm
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: (on a relatively slow disk, say over SMB)
<ali1234> i could set it to no read
<ali1234> and then try to copy or move
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: mv file file.not_there_anymore_haha
<ali1234> that is too hard for a testcase
<ali1234> it has to be easily reproducable
<MartijnVdS> because gnome devs can't use the command line?
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> chmod a-rwx and then trying to copy seems to work
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo diddledan
<knightwise> diplo:
<knightwise> hw are you guys today
<knightwise> aside from freezing arse off
<MooDoo> lots of people have said they are cold, can't feel it myself.
<knightwise> MooDoo: where are you hiding out ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: in the sauna at work ;)
<diddledan> hello knightwise
<diplo> Was very sunny here till about 15 mins ago
<diplo> I've got to spend the next 2 hours sat outside at my kids sports day!
<diddledan> I really should have thought more thoroughly the time it would take to move a 400GB LVM pv from one disc to another at 8:30 when I should have been travelling to work
<diplo> At least they can run around :(
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> 20% done
<diddledan> sports day fttptc
<diddledan> that's "for the 'taking part that counts'"
<diddledan> alternatively ftwld
<diddledan> for the win lose or draw
<knightwise>  does anyone know the difference between Mint Xfce and Ubuntu ?
<knightwise> (if you take the LTS versions ? )
<diddledan> knightwise: mint xfce doesn't use unity
<knightwise> diddledan: Sorry i mistyped
<knightwise> Mint XFCE and Xubuntu
<diddledan> mint guys include some "added extras" which aren't available in the ubuntu repos
<knightwise> ok , so its a "richer" 12.04
<diddledan> I wouldn't say richer unless those added extras are things you want
<diddledan> I forget what they add in their repo
<ali1234> mint has a totally reworked package manager
<knightwise> ok , so no Ubuntu software center there
<ali1234> yeah
<knightwise> ok ,
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning morning morning
<MattJ> Good morning
<andrewebdev> morning all. Am in a spot of trouble here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/298881/13-04-unity-graphics-suddenly-broken-for-no-reason
<MooDoo> morning
<andrewebdev> I'm wondering if unity stores some info about the desktop, layout and graphics in my home folder? If so where is that located and am I safe to just delete all of that?
<czajkowski> andrewebdev: you might have some luck in #ubuntu-desktop
<czajkowski> as all the devs are in the channel
<andrewebdev> ah cool
<bigcalm> When in doubt about desktop environment settings, I create a new user and log in as it. That was I get to see the defaults
<mungbean> was alan wake game any good?
<mungbean> windows only i know :(
<directhex> alan wake i enjoyed
<directhex> it's better than a lot of modern horror games
<directhex> i felt the writing was far above average
<mungbean> they are doing a pay what u like
<mungbean> but who am i kidding, when would i get the time to play it?
<mungbean> or the inclination to install windows
<mungbean> i just bought myself a kick scooter for commuting
<mungbean> to make the journey between stations more interesting
<BigRedS> windows is a lot less bad to install than it used to be, you only really need to get the network driver manually IME
<mungbean> well you also need disk space, time, windows, etc
<BigRedS> oh, yeah. But given those
<BigRedS> also, mine's a legitimate OEM one so no faffing with circumventing protections
<knightwise> there
<knightwise> Ubuntu studio isntalled on the little laptop
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> Xfce is a tad faster then unity i must say
<mungbean> try elementary, fastest of the lot while still having bling
<mungbean> question about giffgaff payback - if i have 500 points and can't reclaim via paypal because they want 1000 pts minimum, what happens?
<mungbean> do your points hang around till the next payback?
<BigRedS> knightwise: it's also way more clunky
 * mungbean remembers to change his goofdybag to the 7.50 one
<knightwise> BigRedS: it depends.
<knightwise> i use kupfer as my launcher and try to use keyboard commands as much as possible
<knightwise> its not that bad then
<ew3r23r> !Cozette [14084] Naked Empire - Terry Goodkind.epub
<lubotu3`> ew3r23r: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<mungbean> my wife only just found out what happened yesterday in woolwich :-|
<BigRedS> knightwise: I couldn't work out how to get dual monitors to do anything but mirror, and the alt-f2 box took about 12 seconds to appear so I went back to Unity
<diplo> Anyone know of any python modules that scan for metadata ( info ) from all media files, basically want to create a library like xbmcs
<diplo> Going to check their code later to see how they do it, but was wondering if there was a generic one or I'm going to have to do mp3tag one and then something else for movies
<diplo> Seems like calling mplayer with the options i need is the way most people are doing it
<bigcalm> Tum-te-tum-te-tum
<bigcalm> Feels like Friday
<shauno> diplo: I'd probably look at the python gstreamer libs?  (look at gstfile.py in python-gst I believe)
<penguin42> bigcalm: Not quite
<penguin42> and anyway, I've got the week off, so don't make my holiday go any faster thank you
<diplo> shauno: ta, hadn't come across that yet
 * diplo looks
<SuperMatt> I've had such a long run of 4 day weeks, for various reasons, that 5 day weeks are getting really dedious
<davmor2> bigcalm: Sue went up town today instead of tomorrow so I really think it's friday, I was so looking forward to the weekend :(
<shauno> that should give you a common method to get tags from anything gstreamer handles, that than worrying about per-codec like mp3tag
<knightwise> anyone know a nice ubuntu client
<knightwise> i tried hottot several times but it just doesnt seem to work
<knightwise> i boot it up but when I need to type in my account .. it just freezes
<drbalor> czajkowski: http://www.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/w16.jpg <-- never say I don't think of you
<czajkowski> drbalor: lol
<davmor2> knightwise: if you are on 13.04 you can try friends, still early development but much nicer than gwibber, or just use the webapp maybe?
<knightwise> yeah davmor2 but I would like to update twitter and facebook at the same time
<knightwise> friends app is still very early days
<mungbean> anyonen tried cronopete?
<mungbean> http://www.rastersoft.com/programas/cronopete.html
<BigRedS> does that use fancy fs features, or just hardlinks?
<mungbean> dunno
<directhex> it does a full tarball snapshot of your rootfs every 5 minutes, obviously!
<funkyHat> https://github.com/rastersoft/cronopete/blob/master/doc/README.html < explanation there mungbean, BigRedS.
<funkyHat> Looks like it does the hardlink thing like all the rsync backup things, but from the description I'm guessing it doesn't actually use rsync, and just comapres modified times
<funkyHat> The main "clever" thing that Time Machine does is uses directory hardlinks, so it doesn't even have to keep a tree of links if that part of the fs hasn't changed. Which means it only works on HFS+. And then it breaks if you use a network backup location and you close the lid the wrong way while it's backing up, and trashes the whole of your backup history.
<bigcalm> davmor2: gran's funeral tomorrow makes for a sort week and a crappy way to start a long weekend
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed
<bigcalm> davmor2: why do I want pie when talking to you?
<mungbean> wife tells me my son just had a 30 minute kick/screaming tantrum in tesco over a bread roll :S 5 strangers came up to him to try and calm him down
<mungbean> the joy of toddlers
<bigcalm> I think humanity would be better off without children
<funkyHat> Perhaps in the short to medium term
<mgdm> mungbean: :/
<mungbean> bigcalm: might start to have an impact soonish though
<bigcalm> Maybe this is how life would be without children as we know them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_and_the_Stars#Setting
<bigcalm> I should re-ready my sifi collections
<bigcalm> reread
<davmor2> bigcalm: because I am the piemaster of olde ye London Town all who call upon my name require pie as sustenance :D
<mungbean> did anyone read enders game and think it was lame?
<davmor2> bigcalm: that or you are thinking of the pie factory
<mungbean> everyone seems to rave about it
<bigcalm> davmor2: mmmmm, pie factory
<davmor2> bigcalm: not the first option then
<bigcalm> davmor2: I do not trust any London pie references for I have seen Sweeney Todd
<funkyHat> mmmmm london pie
<JamesTait> $TZAG, all. :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: see that's your problem you are trying to cram all of London into a pie of course there will be the odd person in the mix who didn't get out the way quick enough :D
<penguin42> gah my notes on how to boot this netflex were nowhere near enough
<penguin42> hmm - if I've got a debootstrap'd (but not working world) can I push another package into it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: chroot into it, dpkg -i ?
<MartijnVdS> or doesn't chroot work either?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: You know how I said it wasn't working :-)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it could be that /bin/sh at least worked
<MartijnVdS> but not much else
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you could do it the hard way(r) and un-ar the deb, untar the data.tar.gz into the chroot, then run the package scripts (chrooted) from one of the other .tar.gzs
<MartijnVdS> but .. I don't know exactly what kinds of failure modes that creates
<shauno> you should be able to dpkg -i --root=/mnt/target yourpackage.deb
<MartijnVdS> ooh, dpkg has a --root option
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<shauno> that also runs pre/post in chroot though, so if your target is broken enough that they might fail, it's still thin ice
<penguin42> shauno: Nice!
<penguin42> shauno: I want to install the -dbg package for libc
<penguin42> this is an armhf root inside a an armel root on an android machine with an old kernel
<penguin42> right, nothing that --force-all doesn't fix :-)
<daftykins> saw someone struggling with a messed up EFI installation attempt from 13.04 last night
<daftykins> anyone know if 13.04's ubiquity can handle changing between an MBR and GPT setup on a disk during the partition stage?
<daftykins> i should really VM it and try ^_^ not even touched that version yet
<xnox> daftykins: GPT vs PC-BIOS partition table does not matter for UEFI.
<xnox> daftykins: in general it preserves existing partition table.
<MartijnVdS> doesn't that depend on your uefi implementation?
<xnox> MartijnVdS: no.
<daftykins> xnox: that's not what i asked
<xnox> MartijnVdS: it depends on the bootloader, and grub will happily UEFI boot of any.
<xnox> daftykins: you can wipe and create a new partition table, but it doesn't offer you to choose which one you want, nor will it convert one to another.
<daftykins> that's a bit weak
<MartijnVdS> xnox: but what if UEFI can't find the boot partition because it doesn't know how to read that specific kind of partiton scheme?
<shauno> most I've run across have both schemes, which is bad for your sanity, but works
<xnox> MartijnVdS: UEFI is a specification - a text document =) firmware generally can bring up a disk drive. And there is only one UEFI partition allowed per drive, it doesn't even read partition scheme, just searches for the marker/label.
<xnox> of the efi partition.
<MartijnVdS> xnox: Does the UEFI spec specify which partition types it must be able to read boot-code from? :)
<xnox> which is reduced FAT.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> scary
<xnox> MartijnVdS: yes, EFI partition label, which is reduced-scope & limited FAT.
<directhex> the UEFI spec mandates FAT for the EFI system partition, and includes the full specification of the filesystem (and requisite patent license)
<daftykins> a specification PC manufacturers have yet to get right
<xnox> lowest commend denominator which _everyone_ knows how to read =)
<MartijnVdS> xnox: and they did so well with iso9660
<MartijnVdS> xnox: and/or ufs
<MartijnVdS> no not ufs.. the other one
<MartijnVdS> UDF
<shauno> pick a standard, any standard, we have hundreds to choose from ;)
<daftykins> few standards are standard :<
<MartijnVdS> ooh, I have "new maps" now
<daftykins> latest Google Maps app?
<MartijnVdS> website
<daftykins> ah
<MartijnVdS> it's an obvious beta though
<MartijnVdS> or it doesn't like my gpu
<MartijnVdS> or both
<daftykins> or driver
<MartijnVdS> Intel
<daftykins> or wind direction
<MartijnVdS> waiting for Haswell now.. only a few more weeks
<daftykins> do you upgrade much?
<penguin42> has someone got a running arm system (modern kernel) that they can give me a /proc/self/maps from?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Not as often as I used to
<MartijnVdS> this is a pre-SandyBridge i3, so it's getting a bit oldish
<daftykins> haha
<directhex> penguin42, how modern a kernel?
<daftykins> i'm still rocking LGA775
<directhex> penguin42, my efikamx is bound to an ancient freescale kernel
<penguin42> directhex: anything new enough to run armhf
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: isn't that 1990s? THe old intel card?
<daftykins> :P
<directhex> daftykins, pfft, and to think you used to be part of the pc enthusiast community :<
 * penguin42 has an i7-860
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: oh wait that waws the "740"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I have the i3-530 from that era
<daftykins> directhex: yip, guess i grew up :D
<directhex> penguin42, http://paste.debian.net/6044/
<directhex> i7-920!
<directhex> on socket 1366!
<MartijnVdS> I'm saving up money for the 4770k or something similar
<penguin42> directhex: Hmm and that's running armhf?
 * penguin42 was expecting a vector page at the top
<directhex> penguin42, notice the triplet in /lib
<directhex> penguin42, but, again, this is an ancient freescale kernel
<directhex> penguin42, let me ssh to a debian porterbox
<penguin42> directhex: Hmm - my problem is I've got this nook, and it runs an armel chroot fine, but the debian armhf segs in ld-linux, I've already built a new kernel with the vector page in, but it's still not happy - so I'm assuming it's missing something useful from the kernel - just not figured out what yet
<directhex> penguin42, okay, harris.d.o: http://paste.debian.net/6045/
<penguin42> directhex: Thanks!
<penguin42> hmm, ok - so my theory of it being memory layout is bogus - that's the same as my new kernel
<daftykins> on the topic of upgrading, i'm too aware of how, even if i did have the latest hardware, it wouldn't actually feel any more worth it than what i run now
<daftykins> the only true change is that of your bank balance :D
<penguin42> yeh I used to upgrade when I could get something 5 times faster, these days that's just not doable
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i went from an Athlon XP to a quad-core Intel last, that felt nice
<penguin42> P90->533MHz Alpha->Dual 1.8GHz Athlon    were my first 3 Linux machines
<daftykins> probably won't see that change again, just newer OS's that are chunkier so need faster hardware to make them feel as smooth as Windows 7 atop my intel quad
<daftykins> penguin42: nice :D
<penguin42> then core2, then this i7-860
<daftykins> i'm putting a gaming PC together for a friend soon, that'll give me the ideal exposure to new hardware to see just how disappointed i'd be, assembling one for myself - only without spending the money! :D
<daftykins> actually i put together an i7 3770 for a client a while back too, so i've already done it
<directhex> this pc is 4 years old now. all original parts
 * penguin42 doesn't really game
<directhex> except for the extra 6G RAM i bought from Azelphur
<directhex> and the two GPU upgrades
<directhex> and the SSD
<directhex> other than that, totally original 4 year old pc!
<penguin42> so yeh other than most of the rest of the machine it's just the same....
 * penguin42 has only added an SSD in the 3 years since he had this
<directhex> well, the motherboard and cpu are original
<directhex> and the case and the power supply
<shauno> I tend to max mine for ram as soon as I can.  after that, upgrades get boring
<directhex> and, um, the blu-ray drive
<directhex> also it no longer runs vista home basic :D
 * penguin42 rarely pushes the 8GB on this home machine
<penguin42> ahha - the TLS register is 0
<shauno> I hit that with VMs way too easily.  a bit disappointed this one won't go past 16
<penguin42> shauno: I tend not to have big VMs, I have two or three with playing with things or trying different versions out, but if I'm doing a big dev (like I had one which had a new KDE build in) I just let that take most of the RAM
<shauno> I have an appliance that cries foul if it doesn't have 8GB at install-time (but can be reduced later), and a dependency that gets cranky in less than 2
<shauno> so half my laptop is eaten before I've even started doing anything :/
<penguin42> ouch
 * penguin42 does have a machine with 128GB at work, very nice for looking at large debug traces on
<daftykins> lol Vista home basic
<daftykins> bad directhex!
<daftykins> (for the past)
<directhex> penguin42, i miss the 1T server at work
<directhex> daftykins, i had a vista ultimate upgrade from work, but needed a base oem OS first for licensing raisins
<penguin42> ooh 1T, yes that would be fun
<penguin42> directhex: Was that a test machine or did it use 1T for something useful?
<directhex> penguin42, itanium powered!
<penguin42> superdome?
<directhex> penguin42, you'd be amazed what kind of new science is possible when you can load data sets that large into a single system image
<penguin42> or UV?
<directhex> penguin42, predates UV. altix 4700
<penguin42> ah ok, yeh
<penguin42> yeh we had a one or two brick altix for testing
<daftykins> Â£57.75 for a new main oven thermostat for my smeg oven :(
<directhex> smegging hell :|
<penguin42> daftykins: How old is it?
<daftykins> er dunno, i got it with the place i bought
<daftykins> looks like it got converted for Guernsey's gas supply back in 2005
<daftykins> so probably that old
<daftykins> i called someone around to repair it, he was going to order me the part but i've heard nothing in over a month!
<daftykins> which is great because it's an easy job so i'll just do it myself
<penguin42> are you allowed to or does it fall under the type of things you can be hung for tampering with a gas appliance?
 * penguin42 wonders if Guernsey's gas is thicker and creamier
<daftykins> thinner and rubbisher :(
<daftykins> LPG
<penguin42> yeuch
<daftykins> ah well it's an electric oven part so yeah should be fine
<daftykins> hrmm ebay is half that price
<daftykins> but do i trust them?
<shauno> what could possibly go wrong?
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> Â£34.99 on ebay
<daftykins> think i'd rather spend more and get it from a reputable firm
<daftykins> espares.co.uk seems legit
<daftykins> but twice the price is harsh :(
<diddledan> mornin
<diddledan> so.. when you boot into windows for the first time in however long, don't trust the clock to tell you when it's time to go home
<penguin42> haha
<diddledan> I was all set to stay till 7pm thinking it'ld be 6pm
<daftykins> :>
<penguin42> diddledan: You last booted before the summertime change?
<daftykins> that element of multi-boot was often a pain
<diddledan> side note however is that ubuntu runs quite nicely under hyper-v
<daftykins> i find hyper-v nasty, the whole domain + SQL server requirement
<diddledan> penguin42: nah, it's the issue with windows using localtime from the rtc while ubuntu uses gmt in the rtc
<diddledan> so once ubuntu sets the RTC to gmt (localtime - 1 hour) then windows reads localtime back from the RTC without correcting
<penguin42> diddledan: You can configure which it will use can't you?
<diddledan> yeah, but I haven't
<diddledan> I'd completely forgotten about the issue until 5/6pm today and I wondered why I was the last person in the office
<diddledan> daftykins: no domains or sql server here
<daftykins> on the host box running hyper-v?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> used to be their requirement i thought, perhaps they've lifted it
<daftykins> or maybe that's just to use SCVMM
<diddledan> yeah system center probably requires both of those
<diddledan> the hyper-v itself works fine on it's own - they've even packaged a free version of windows server to just run hyper-v similar to the freebie offerings of citrix and vmware
<daftykins> ah yeah, it's a bit useless if you have to control the host via RDP to run VMs though
<daftykins> ah great, websites that don't have the Channel Islands listed on their payment pages
<daftykins> and also charge VAT :(
<knightwise> hey everyone
<shauno> heh, I only found that out very recently.  had a customer who complained about being charged VAT, which left us with a blank face
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> actually, there's a question for you.  do you usually get charged VAT for delivery?
<diddledan> channel islands don't pay vat?
<diddledan> I knew amazon et al got around vat by putting their distribution centre on the islands
<daftykins> that only worked until LVCR, low value consignment relief got canned
<diddledan> I didn't know that residents didn't pay vat either
<daftykins> we have our own government
<daftykins> so yeah, our own laws
<diddledan> which island is the one with feudal government? :-p
<daftykins> Sark
<daftykins> should be going there this bank holiday Monday for a birthday event actually :O
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> not been over in a while
<daftykins> though allegedly it might rain Monday :<
<diddledan> looks like I might have won a freelance web dev contract \o/
<diddledan> I rock
<daftykins> :O nice
<diddledan> rain doesn't rock
<daftykins> i hope you're nice and moral with your fees
<daftykins> a client of mine recently got fleeced for a custom skin on wordpress deal, to the tune of 3 grand >_<
<diddledan> yes, I bid higher than everyone else
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> and offered hosting for it... get this...
<daftykins> for Â£1200/yr
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<diddledan> ouchies
<diddledan> that's an expensive hosting
<daftykins> i was able to at least pinch the hosting part :D
<daftykins> 1) buy VPS 2) host site 3) charge 10% of the above
<diddledan> fair enough I pay in the tune of about 300Â£ per mo on servery stuff but 1200 for a single site is crazy
<daftykins> you got that many up though?
<diddledan> nope, all personal stuff
<daftykins> this is my first client for the hosting part :D
<daftykins> got myself one of bytemark's bigv VPSs
<diddledan> I've been waiting for someone in #ubuntu-mirror to pull their wotsit out and review my mirror request - uk.ubuntu.bowlhat.net
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'd like it if the Guernsey mirror weren't just a fake, at least i think it is a fake
<daftykins> gg.archive.ubuntu.com iirc
<daftykins> yep it's going to London
<shauno> I'd like it if the ie mirror wasn't slower than using an australian one :/
<daftykins> getting lost in cogentco mirrors and ooh orobas.canonical.com
<diddledan> use mine ! :-p
<daftykins> :O
<shauno> actually, they seem to be quicker than gb today.  that's new.  if it's not a fluke, I might actually start using it again
<lardman> Evening all. Are there many people with multihead (and multicard) setups here?
<lardman> As usual, my working 3 monitor setup (under Precise) has become non-working with an upgrade to Raring, though this time I don't seem to be able to find any lucky Xorg.conf combination to get it back again
 * lardman wonders if there's a multihead "support" group :)
<AlanBell> if you are using an xorg.conf then it has already gone horribly wrong
<AlanBell> I use dual screen (laptop+external monitor)
<AlanBell> and unity is a bit rubbish on it
<AlanBell> gnome shell isn't much better
<lardman> ah, well I'm trying to not use Unity, and am using the "fallback" setup
<ali1234> what's the name of that screen recording tool? it's called yazzam or something...
<ali1234> kazam
<ali1234> i was close
<lardman> Unfortunately my setup is a little complicated, single monitor on an nVidia card and two on an ATi; xinerama all round, worked perfectly (with some fiddling after each upgrade), but no longer
<ali1234> lardman: azelphur is our expert on these things
<ali1234> by which i mean the only person here who uses it
<Azelphur> I havn't tried 13.04 yet
<Azelphur> but I run XFCE, it's much less of a pain in the ass for multi monitor
<lardman> Azelphur: what cards (manuf) do you use?
<Azelphur> nvidia 570 + 630
 * lardman curses xchat-gnome for not letting him change from , to :
 * AlanBell upgrades server to 13.04
<lardman> ah, single manufacturer, I'm tempted to ditch the ATi card to see if that makes life easier
<mungbean> Azelphur: u in margate?
<Azelphur> mungbean: yup
<AlanBell> power cut today rebooted me so I might as well update
<mungbean> did i watch the mary portas prog?
<Azelphur> I dunno, sorry the cameras I have in your front room arn't working atm
<mungbean> i/u
<Azelphur> nope :P
<mungbean> it was about margate
<mungbean> shopping and how grim it is
<Azelphur> I see, the whole "all the businesses in margate are shutting down" thing?
<mungbean> watch it :P
<lardman> Azelphur: what setup do you use? Twinview(?) or xinerama or single server per monitor?
<Azelphur> lardman: 2x twinview
<Azelphur> lol
<lardman> hmm, this is one of the places where Windows is so much better than Windows - multimonitor just works, as does hw accel even across different manuf cards. Annoying
<lardman> doh
<lardman> Windows->Linux in the second case
<funkyHat> I've never had an issue with 2 monitors on Linux, but then I haven't had 2 monitors at once for all that long I suppose (well, a few years now but yeah)
<lardman> funkyHat: driven by the same card?
<funkyHat> lardman: yes
<lardman> yeah, that tends to be easier as you can use the proprietary driver built-in multimonitor support
<funkyHat> For a while it's been with the open source radeon drivers, actually
<lardman> yeah true, not in the old days though
<lardman> bbiab
<lardman> re
<lardman> I seem to remember that my particularly unimpressive Ati card is not (well) supported by the open source radeon driver, but I must check again
<ali1234> wonderful
<funkyHat> superb
 * lardman goes to look for Xorg segfault bug reports
<ali1234> dell... sucks so bad
<mungbean> ?
<ali1234> i don't know if i should even tell this story, that's how bad it is
<mungbean> i like dell
<mungbean> business lines
<funkyHat> dell are a mixed bag, in my opinion
<lardman> this Dell laptop works well under Linux
<ali1234> let's just say... if you send a laptop to dell for repair, wipe it first. because you don't just have to worry about dell employees seeing the contents.
<mungbean> continue..
<daftykins> ah, latest nvidia cards finally got outed
<lardman> 780?
<mungbean> ali1234: another hugin stitch, no intervention, wheres the stitch pt?
<daftykins> yep
<mungbean> http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/8806487576/
<daftykins> GTX 780 indeed
<ali1234> mungbean: just slightly to the right of the wing cannons in the yellow part it is visible
<ali1234> it's pretty good though. hooray for open source
<ali1234> (also quite visible in the roof supports)
<ali1234> also another one visible on the red cord thing in front
<ali1234> would probably take me no more than 10 minutes to fix those bits up in photoshop, so that probably is a time saver even if it isn't perfect
<mungbean> yep :)
<mungbean> the biggest thing is perspective tweaking
<ali1234> really though the point where it fails is when you have horizontal and vertical stitching
<ali1234> that seems to be harder to deal with
<mungbean> its much better with exposure gandling than the canon one
<lardman> daftykins: mmm, that looks pretty cool
<lardman> so does the Typhoon :)
<lardman> Is the 780 the same gen as the Titan?
<directhex> afaik yes
 * lardman wonders if his power supply is enough to power one of those
<daftykins> yeah it's a cutdown Titan
<daftykins> you'd want 650W+ depending on the rest of your system
<lardman> oh it's cut down is it, interesting
<lardman> I think I have a 1000W supply, so should be enough power, space might be the issue though
<daftykins> haha 1kW
<daftykins> madness
<lardman> 1000W sounds like quite a lot mind you
<daftykins> sounds like enthusiast spec alright
<penguin42> with a PSU like that you can     make tea
<lardman> yeah sure can, warms up my legs when I'm doing sim work
<lardman> and bloody noisy too
<daftykins> ugh remoted into a clients system to perform a Google Apps migration
<daftykins> Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook is saying 'Error: cannot create profile' =|
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKu20y1f_RU can anyone make that video play past 11:57?
<daftykins> nope seems knackered
<daftykins> froze up about 11:55 then kept the same frame
<daftykins> won't seek
<shauno> works fine here (played from 11:40 to 12:40)
<diddledan> I can seek past 11:55 from the start
<diddledan> got to 13:58 then the endscreen popped up
<diddledan> now it's reporting the video is 2:22 long
<shauno> past the 14min mark now
<shauno> not on linux, but call it a control test I guess.
<diddledan> I'm on 'dows
<shauno> orly?  that's curious
<ali1234> yeah i got past 11:57 be seeking then it cut out again at 16:01
<ali1234> i reported it
<shauno> curious, either of you using Chrome?
<diddledan> yup
<shauno> if I play in chrome, it hiccups somewhere around 13:58 .. sends the seek bar to the start, but starts replaying video from about 5 second prior
<shauno> if I play it in safari, I don't see any issues at all  (chrome bundles's own flash build)
<ali1234> firefox
<shauno> well there goes that theory :/   still curious that I get different results in different flash builds though
<daftykins> battery dying so time to do other stuff
<daftykins> g'night all \o
 * lardman also heads for bed
<lardman> night all
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-24
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<knightwise> how are you today
<diplo> Not to bad thanks, yourself ?
<dwatkins> ali1234: there's always youtube downloader on userscripts, of course
<ali1234> i've seen it before anyway
<ali1234> are steam or skype available on raring yet?
<ali1234> ah steam is up now. cool
<ali1234> oh wait, no it isn't
<ali1234> h it looks like the problem is there is no longer a 64 bit package
<dwatkins> I was using Steam a couple days ago on 64-bit Raring.
<dwatkins> I think it mostly uses 32-bit packages, unless I'm missing the existence of a "force 64-bit" option somewhere.
<ali1234> it won't show in software center unless you add the partner repo by hand
<ali1234> same for skype
<dwatkins> ah ok, that'll be why I saw 'i386' in the diag output.
<ali1234> if you had steam installed thru software center on 12.10 you will see "steam (64 bit)" in "software previously purchased" but you won't be able to install it because it is now just "steam"
<dwatkins> ali1234: that video appears to be 11:57 long on my browser
<ali1234> which is a different package which won't show up until after you maually add the partner repo
<ali1234> "Steam needs to install these additional packages:
<ali1234> 	libgl1-mesa-dri:i386, libgl1-mesa-glx:i386, libc6:i386"
<ali1234> ok, why couldn't the package manager do it?
<dwatkins> I wonder that, perhaps they wanted complete control of the packages installed.
<ali1234> it installs them from the package manager anyway
<ali1234> along with a load of other i386 stuff
<ali1234> i think more likely they are just incompetent
<dwatkins> it always worries me when people reinvent the wheel
<ali1234> "to install skype these packages must be removed: libjack0 libjack-dev"
<dwatkins> at least it uses package manager, though
<AlanBell> it will probably move to click packages at some point
<AlanBell> which will break it again I imagine
<AlanBell> it is a shame that the stuff in the partner repo has always been dodgy to use, it should be flagship software really
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, it's not like the stuff that is installed by default is any better
<ali1234> why does steam make a "bing bong" noise when you minimize it?
<AlanBell> stuff in the repos tends to stay there from release to release and not put you in a world of pain when it goes away
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> cos things never go away from ubuntu right?
<AlanBell> oh, things do go away, sure,
<AlanBell> but they don't go away by default every release
<ali1234> cool i has portal
<AlanBell> partner repo is normally empty at the start of each release, no testing pre-release
<AlanBell> you only find out if software is coming back when it comes back, if it does
<ali1234> and by the end of the release it has... identical deb files to what it had in the previous release
<ali1234> what is "chivalry: medieval warfare 2 d" and why is it on my steam account?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 2d = 2 days
<ali1234> oh it is a free weekend thing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a "free weekend"
<ali1234> i thought it was a 3d game
<ali1234> steam is too confusing
<AlanBell> skype is in saucy parter repo already which is good
<ali1234> nobody will ever use this it is much too hard
<ali1234> oh it's the "turtle mode" game
<ali1234> i thought i recognized the name
<ali1234> it crashed. nice
<ali1234> this is rubbish, it crashes constantly
<ali1234> /home/al/.local/share/Steam/steam.sh: line 704: 14621 Illegal instruction     (core dumped) $STEAM_DEBUGGER "$STEAMROOT/$PLATFORM/$STEAMEXE" "$@"
<MartijnVdS> steam crashes? wow
<MartijnVdS> Never had that.
<AlanBell> really should have done that do-release-upgrade in byobu or something
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: known issue too
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: doesn't it start its own screen anymore?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it used to start at least its own sshd.. and I think even its own screen
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: to fix it you have to manually download 32 bit flash from adobe and uncompress it into a directory that doesn't exist until you create it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah.. I just get "Flash not available" in steam
<ali1234> yeah they have "fixed" that now
<ali1234> now it tries to use HTML5
<ali1234> and that causes it to instacrash
<ali1234> i must say that the whole steam UI is shockingly bad
<ali1234> just goes to show that good UI design counts for nothing in the end
<ali1234> but neither does stable working software
<MartijnVdS> does anyone have experience with this? http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Cooling-Heatsink-Radiator/dp/B009SJR3GS
<MartijnVdS> (or similar)
<ali1234> i'm kind of tempted to get X3: terran conflict
<ali1234> bit pricey though
<MartijnVdS> XÂ³
<ali1234> yeah that one
<MartijnVdS> don't know it.. I have the latests XCom though 8-)
<ali1234> yeah ... no
<ali1234> i wish they would accept bitcoins
<ali1234> i would buy this game right now if they did
<MartijnVdS> you can have Azelphur buy & gift it for you ;)
<ali1234> that is a fantastic idea
<ali1234> X3 looks like a single player version of EVE. which is a multiplayer version of elite.
<ali1234> i could never get it to work though
<ali1234> in wine
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Tiara Day!  :-D (No I am not wearing a tiara)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: you should, really
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I've told you before, only on Saturday nights.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Pleaaaaase?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, no, Jasmine only comes out at weekends.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Friday night doesn't count as the weekend/
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, it does set up another sshd, not sure about the screen session
<AlanBell> I just didn't fancy unplugging at the grub stage of the process
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, it's only Friday morning!  I have a whole day of exciting, scary stuff to do before the weekend! ;)
<bpisti> hi, if anyone is here, i would like to get some help with ubuntu 12.04
<bpisti> i cannot access any files after reinstall
<czajkowski> bpisti: what errors are you seeing what have you done ?
<bpisti> well, lightdm cannot log in, it push me back to login screen
<bpisti> my home is in separate partition, it downgraded from 13.04 because the laptop is old
<AlanBell> does a guest login work?
<bpisti> i'm currently root, using gdm to log in, and yes, guest worked
<MartijnVdS> anything in your ~/.xsession-errors?
<MartijnVdS> and/or /var/log/lightdm/*
<knightwise> ok , silly question but .. if I put the latest build of Ubuntu Touch on my nexus 4 ... whats gonna work so far ?
<bpisti> well, no xerrors, but lightdm log has something with SIGTERM
<knightwise> Gmail ? Internet access ? twitter ? Facebook ?
<czajkowski> knightwise: you following rick spencers posts
<czajkowski> they're blogging what is currently working
<knightwise> ah , i'll google him
<knightwise> or do you mean on Google+ ?
<czajkowski> http://theravingrick.blogspot.co.uk/
<knightwise> thanx czajkowski !
<MooDoo> helolo all
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: trolololo to you too, MooDoo ;)
<MooDoo> :)
<czajkowski> knightwise: np
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> hey, cool new feature in Chrome
<bpisti> greetings! i have the home in a separate partition and i'm about to reinstall 12.04, but how will it recognize it?
<MartijnVdS> 3rd party iframes loaded over https:// get an URL bar inside the page
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: you can select it in the installer, if you choose manual partitioning
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: make sure you don't set it to 'format partition', just 'use partition'!
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: why is that a cool feature?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Some web shops use an external payment processor in an iframe
<bpisti> i understand this part, but the last install i put the same machine name, username, and i didn't have access to my files
<AlanBell> ah, so you can see where it is coming from, I get it now
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: which should be secure, but before, you could never check (because you couldn't see the iframe URL and/or access its certificate info easily)
<AlanBell> bpisti: were you using encrypted home?
<AlanBell> or is it that the UID has changed?
<bpisti> i'm not sure, but i would say no
<bpisti> i don't think
<AlanBell> so if you do ls -lh /homepartition/bpisti does it show the owner or 1003 or something
<bpisti> i have saves, and as root i can copy stuff, but then the advantege is lost
<bpisti> yes, yes
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: Does it show the owner's username, or "1003"?
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: "yes" is not a useful answer here ;)
<bpisti> sorry, it's showing "1000" for owner username
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: is this from the installer, or from the installed system?
<bpisti> i had to go on liveCD, because i couldn't log in, even as root... but it was the same situation as now
<bpisti> so if i have to reinstall again, i would like to do it good, because i'm already behind schedule :D
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<mungbean> bpisti: do ls -l /home
<mungbean> and paste the output
<bpisti> i'm on a live cd, so the installed /home looks like this: drwxrwxrwx 7 1000 1000     4096 May 23 10:56 Desktop
<bpisti> but if i were on the installed ubuntu, it would look just like this
<MartijnVdS> 777? that's not good.
<MartijnVdS> Have you run "chmod" on it?
<mungbean> didi you run the command exactly?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: on the live CD, /home isn't the installed /home
<MartijnVdS> but the "live-cd /home"
<mungbean> ok so the partition may not even be mounted
<bpisti> yes, i tried to access the files, but there are still problems (like firefox, nautilus, etc.)
<MartijnVdS> bpisti: what _exactly_ did you do to access the files?
<MartijnVdS> Which commands did you type, or which graphical programs did you use (and how)
<bpisti> i logged in as root
<MartijnVdS> how?
<bpisti> and chown pisti:pisti *
<bpisti> alt+f2
<MartijnVdS> On the live CD? On the installed system? How?
<MartijnVdS> you can't log in as root, there is no root password on Ubuntu systems
<MartijnVdS> well you can if you set one, but you should never do that because it's unsafe
<bpisti> on the installed, and i set it.. otherwise i couldn't use it
<bpisti> it's a home laptop, no sharing
<MartijnVdS> still
<MartijnVdS> root password = no-no
<bpisti> i understand it, but i couldn't do anything, even if i managed to log in
<bpisti> let's say i reinstall, because it's relative fast. will i run into the same problem, or i can use the partition for good?
<SuperMatt> I'm still waiting for the day that my boss decides that we don't need root access. All we all need is sudo and our keys
<SuperMatt> but all the while debian requests a root password when you set it up, I don't think he'll see it that way
<AlanBell> bpisti: chown doesn't do recursive by default
<bpisti> even with the -R?
<AlanBell> with the -R it does :)
<AlanBell> 11:18 < bpisti> and chown pisti:pisti *
<AlanBell> ^ that won't though
<bpisti> yes, google helped me find out that
<AlanBell> also grep pisti /etc/passwd
<AlanBell> that will show you your UID
<AlanBell> probably 1000
<bpisti> yes
<bpisti> it is
<ali1234> or echo $UID
<ali1234> when ls -l shows number instead of username it means there is no user with that uid
<bpisti> if i click in the installer on Erase ubi 12.04, that will delete the files on the separated home, or just on the / ?
<bpisti> anyway i went to manual, unchecked formatting, maybe it will work... thanks for the help, have a good day everyone!
<bpisti> i'm working on a game, here you can see some dev videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/bialkoistvan
<samuel__> hello ubuntu-uk long time no speak!
<SuperMatt> hello
<samuel__> hi supermatt
<samuel__> whats your excuse for being here at 2 in the afternoon? :D
<SuperMatt> I'm at work
<samuel__> ah, i remember when i used to come here at work
<samuel__> do you use ubuntu at work?
<samuel__> or someotherlinux?
<SuperMatt> I use ubuntu at work, yes
<samuel__> ahhh lucky you, my new work has too much microsoft centric stuff for me to switch over yet
<samuel__> i've only been there 5 months :D
<samuel__> dont feel like its a good time to dick around with my workstation yet
<Myrtti> I clearly need more tea to parse what people write on Google+ at the moment
<AndreaA> hello
<AndreaA> I'm experiencing some problems while trying to upgrade to Ubuntu Precise Pangolin
<AndreaA> can anyone please help me?
<SuperMatt> what issues are you experiencing?
<AndreaA> hey SuperMatt, thank you for answering :). So, I tried to upgrade yesterday and my laptop lost its power in the middle of it. Now I'm getting the "recovery mode" window, and when I go to "Resume Normal boot" it says that version "GLIBC_2.14" is not found
<SuperMatt> ouch S:
<MooDoo> would a sudo apt-get -f install complete the upgrade?
<SuperMatt> ok, try this:
<AndreaA> it also says that "CONTROL-D will terminate this shell and reboot the system"
<SuperMatt> go to recovery mode and select the option that drops you to root shell
<SuperMatt> from there, run mount and read what device is on /
<SuperMatt> skip that step actually
<SuperMatt> run mount -o remount,rw /
<SuperMatt> and then run apt-get -f install
<SuperMatt> that *might* work
<SuperMatt> but it was a little silly of you to upgrade without pluggin in!
<brobostigon> isnt there a warning somewhere, for that?
<AndreaA> I will try, thank you SuperMatt and MooDoo. Right now, I downloaded the ISO file on an another computer (the same version, ofc) and attached the USB file, and now it says that "Asking for cache data failed" and "Attached SCSI removable disc". what does that mean?
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<brobostigon> first thing. check you dd'd the iso to the usb drive properly.
<AndreaA> I did. I downloaded it from here: http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/
<AndreaA> I tried to type in "sudo apt-get -f install" in terminal and it says this:
<AndreaA> "Not using locking for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock"
<AlanBell> gulp, that sounds like a messy situation AndreaA
<brobostigon> that imples dpkg/apt/aptitude etc is already running and is taking up that file.
<AlanBell> do you want to fix what you have, or would it be simpler to do a reinstall without overwriting your home directory?
<AndreaA> AlanBell, whatever is possible. I would just like to upgrade to 12.4, and that's it. Now I typed "sudo dpkg --configure -a" like it suggested and it says that it's unable to access dpkg status area: Read-only file system
<AlanBell> so do you have stuff in your home directory you want to keep? Now would be a good time to get a backup if you do
<brobostigon> i would remount rw, as SuperMatt suggested, and try again.
 * SuperMatt nods
<SuperMatt> I was gonna say that
<SuperMatt> mount -o rw,remount /
<brobostigon> but yes, backup asap.
<AndreaA> I have some stuff I would like to keep :((. and I don't know how to do a backup... I'm a new user, and never did it with terminal
<AlanBell> got a USB memory stick with enough room on it for your stuff?
<SuperMatt> what would you back up to?
<AndreaA> Alan, yes, it does!
<AlanBell> easy way is probably to boot from the USB in live mode
<AndreaA> I have some backups that were created before, SuperMatt
<AlanBell> and then drag stuff to the USB stick
<SuperMatt> ^ this
<AndreaA> and how to do that?
<MooDoo> AndreaA: do you have an ubuntu live cd?
<AndreaA> No, I have Ubuntu on USB
<MooDoo> but that's a live usb boot right?
<AndreaA> YES
<AndreaA> yes, I think it is
<MooDoo> beacuase what you could do is boot into a live cd/usb environment and drag and drop all the files you want from your laptop in live mode to the USB stick, then once you're happy you have your files, do a complete re-intall and you'll have your files in the usb
<AndreaA> I understand you, but I don't have a clue how to do that. The previous version of Ubuntu I installed from the same USB went fine and nothing like this happened before
<AlanBell> if you put the USB in and click the Try Ubuntu button rather than the install ubuntu button it should take you to a desktop
<MooDoo> beat me to that
<AlanBell> from there you can use the normal file manager to browse to your home directory on the hard drive, and copy, and browse to the USB stick and paste
<mungbean> i hate SCOM with a passion. worst software i've used in years
<MooDoo> +1
<AlanBell> then you can go through the install ubuntu process, and instead of telling it to wipe the disk tell it to do "something else" and give it your existing partitions to install on
<AlanBell> if you tell it not to reformat the partitions it should preserve your home directory
<AlanBell> however this is a mildly risky area and if you press the wrong button you could end up formatting the disk and wiping your stuff, so  a backup first would be a good thing
<AndreaA> AlanBell: well, the trouble is that it doesn't say anything when I put in the USB device... nor "Try Ubuntu" or "Install Ubuntu"... nothing. you know what? I will take a photo of my screen and send it to you, it will be easier.
<AndreaA> when I start my laptop (with USB in), I first get this screen: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/ublx.png/
<MooDoo> AndreaA: that's a normal boot
<MooDoo> when you start the laptop as it's doing the bios checks is there an option for a boot menu, probably f1 or f12 or del or something like that.
<MooDoo> if you get that grub menu you've gone to far
<AndreaA> no, that's the first thing I get when I start it
<AndreaA> so I go to recovery mode. Should I do something differently?
<diddledan_> microsoft are going to license a halo: the tv series?!
<diddledan_> really?
<SuperMatt> yes
<diddledan_> I'm assuming spielburg isn't director or exec prod, but in fact the lead character
<diddledan_> now that I'd watch
<diddledan_> I prefer tv to games anyway.. I haven't died once while watching tv but when playing games I'm guaranteed to die at least every 20 minutes
<SuperMatt> yes, games are a weird thing
<SuperMatt> they're the only medium that stops you pregressing when you can't work out what's going on
<diddledan_> I like to be told what's going on - saves everyone the hassle of assuming I'm actually intelligent
<first-time-here> hii
<first-time-here> how i can solve this error?
<first-time-here> http://pastebin.com/aGctH1Uh
<dwatkins> first-time-here: To see the supported input formats, use "ffmpeg -formats", according to the manpage.
<first-time-here> dwatkins: i get loooong list - what i need to looking for?
<AlanBell> first-time-here: v4l2 isn't a video format as such
<AlanBell> so, you are trying to restream a camera or something?
<makt> evening all
<daftykins> ooh my mate is ok with ignoring the GTX 780 from nvidia in favour of sticking to a 680 for his new PC
<daftykins> so i may well have a nice PC build soon :D:D
<n1md4_> hi.  what does the 'd' and 'c' characters mean in diff?
<n1md4_> e.g. 2d1 or 11c10
<n1md4_> ..and is there a way to only print the c differences?
<daftykins> 'man diff' ?
<n1md4_> daftykins: I couldn't find anything useful
<daftykins> you're right, doesn't even seem to tell you what the letters mean
<daftykins> that's very unimpressive
<daftykins> http://www.computerhope.com/unix/udiff.htm
<daftykins> that's also a bit non-descript
<n1md4_> daftykins: there are 3 characters i can tell, from trial and error, a d and c.  i guess these to be added deleted and common (meaning it starts the same but finishes with a difference)
<daftykins> sounds fair
<daftykins> you could create two test files to confirm that i guess
<n1md4_> my new question then, how to only print added or deleted lines.
<n1md4_> .. or how to not print common lines
<n1md4_> hmmm http://serverfault.com/questions/470210/how-can-i-get-diff-to-show-only-added-and-deleted-lines-if-diff-cant-do-it
<daftykins> uh-oh spaghetti-o's, it's getting dangerously close to regular expression talk
<daftykins> oh no wait it is
<n1md4_> yeah .. this is going to be an awesome one-liner :P
<n1md4_> thanks.
<daftykins> n1md4_: hey you did it all ^_^
<leolol> anybody here to help me out?
<daftykins> ask away
<leolol> ok. i installed ubuntu on a ProLiant server (dual xenon 3,6ghz) and it all worked out fine, after loads of trial and error
<leolol> but i still face one problem:
<daftykins> no coffee making function
<daftykins> i know, it gets us all :(
<daftykins> sorry, do tell
<leolol> once i boot i get a message from my monitor that says: "the current input timing is not supported by the monitor. Please change your input timing to 1920x1200@60hz or any other monitor timing as per the monitor specifcations"
<leolol> yeah, coffee :3
<leolol> i tried a different monitor, same result
<leolol> and without a display it's pretty hard to set up a remote desktop..
<leolol> cause i don't even know if it is running
<leolol> oh and i tried ubuntu server, ubuntu (12.04)
<daftykins> yeah what are you intending on doing with the system? because a server distro on server hardware might be a good idea anyway
<daftykins> but you should be able to fiddle with that in the display settings
<leolol> yeah i installed the server edition, but normal ubuntu (and any other linux i tried) has the same result
<leolol> it doesn't let me on my display it self
<leolol> is it possible that the pretty old server doesn't like 16:9?
<daftykins> servers do tend to have very basic graphics
<daftykins> no you'd change it inside ubuntu
<leolol> yeah.. but i can set my output on my pc to 1x1 and it would still be displayed by the display..
<leolol> ok
<leolol> maybe i can try it without seeing anything
<leolol> over code.. but i'd need a step by step explanation
<daftykins> those LCDs that cover the whole image telling you 'YOU'RE STUPID, YOU SHOULD BE IN RES A x B!' anger me
<daftykins> what's installed on it right now?
<leolol> Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS
<leolol> 64 bit
<leolol> yeah but it says something about "timings" which i do not understand at all
<daftykins> did you install it, then install the desktop package or something?
<daftykins> well, if you're connected with a VGA cable, it could be talking about pixel clock, refresh rate or more
<leolol> i didn't install a gui yet, but i can't even see the thingy where i enter the commands
<leolol> *command line
<daftykins> do you see the bootup scrolling messages?
<leolol> i see everything that comes from the bios
<daftykins> how about switching between TTYs? (press ctrl+alt+F1 through F6)
<leolol> and i saw everyhting while installing
<leolol> TTYs? let me try that
<leolol> will take a few seconds to boot
<daftykins> they're like, all the different login screens. the acronym is the old term 'Tele-TYpewriter'
<daftykins> no problemo
<leolol> what time does it usually take to boot?
<leolol> it's the first linux machine i have
<daftykins> if it's server and you didn't pick any extra packages during 'tasksel' aka Task Selection, typically after BIOS i'd say under 15 seconds
<leolol> LOL
<leolol> sorry
<daftykins> depends on the disks in that server
<leolol> but i have a solution lol
<daftykins> ? :D
<leolol> i just started the system
<leolol> and forgot to plug in the monitor
<leolol> cause i tried the other one
<daftykins> :)
<leolol> plugged it in
<leolol> saw a login screen lol
<daftykins> well if you're just starting out, is there anything else you want to start trying and ask about now that you're there?
<leolol> maybe you can explain to me how i can set up a gui and remote desktop thingy?
<daftykins> to be honest installing a GUI on top of server kind of defeats the purpose of installing server to begin with
<daftykins> but sure, it can be done
<daftykins> you can login and type 'sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' first to get the latest updates
<leolol> mhmm
<leolol> ok
<leolol> hopefully i configured my network correctly
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> you may seem some errors if not ^_^ but that's ok, we can fix that too
<daftykins> the first means - 'get the newest package lists' and the second means 'update every currently installed package to the newest version'
<leolol> can we set up a remote desktop first or should i do the updates?
<daftykins> well you have no GUI to remote to :) installing the latest packages is best first, before there are more packages on
<daftykins> (more packaged will obviously be added when installing a GUI)
<leolol> it asks [sudo] password for username:
<leolol> but i can't type anything..
<daftykins> your password won't be visible as you type it
<daftykins> it's a security 'mechanism' to stop people counting asterisks to know how long it is
<daftykins> if you feel like you make a mistake, just hold down backspace for a few seconds to clear it out
<daftykins> *made
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> leolol: also, whilst doing things at the command line as you are now, don't be afraid if you glance away and the screen goes blank. the command line view has a sort of 'screensaver' which blanks the display after a set amount of time
<daftykins> that one always gets new users :D myself included way back when ^_^
<leolol> is it possible that my sudo password isn't the same as my account password?
<daftykins> nah, it'll definitely be the one you entered for your user during setup
<leolol> cause i'm 99,9% shure that the one i typed was right
<leolol> didn't have that yet :P
<daftykins> huh? have what?
<daftykins> oh i get you
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> just pre-empting it ;)
<leolol> ok worked
<leolol> but it doesn't seem to have a working internet connection
<leolol> lol
<leolol> cause i didn't plug in the cable.
<leolol> facepalm
<daftykins> leolol: hehe, ok it won't auto get an IP address from just plugging it in now
<daftykins> unless you configured it with a static IP
<leolol> my ip hasn't changed i think
<leolol> it is on 22% but it gets an error now i think
<leolol> once i've set it up i'll be using no-ip i think..
<daftykins> so the update and upgrade is working?
<daftykins> i guess you must've given it a static IP during setup
<leolol> dono, sometimes it says "no adress assigned to hostname"
<leolol> but it is on 23%
<leolol> seems to be stuck now
<daftykins> what's the last line?
<leolol> while connecting
<leolol> connecting to us.archive.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> ok
<daftykins> ctrl+c to stop that
<leolol> and then something with security
<daftykins> do you know your router's internal IP? e.g. 192.168.0.1
<daftykins> also have you got some networking experience so i don't sound rude? :D
<leolol> i think if would have just workd lol it got a translationindex and another translationindex :P
<leolol> i know my way around pc's, i know what my IP is etc
<leolol> my IP hasn't changed
<leolol> since i configured my network
<daftykins> i don't mean your internet facing IP
<daftykins> oh i get you, your DHCP lease
<leolol> you mean my routers IP?
<daftykins> first diagnosis step, ping your router's internal IP
<leolol> windows or linux?
<daftykins> that'll tell you if the server has anything configured
<daftykins> well the command is the same
<daftykins> 'ping x.x.x.x'
<leolol> x.x.x.x is my IP?
<daftykins> well i don't know what your router's IP is
<daftykins> so you need to substitute it in :D
<leolol> can it be the one i have when i search for "my ip" on google? lol
<daftykins> nah that's your internet facing one
<leolol> it would be 62.178.128.100 (maybe that's stupid to type in the internet.. idk)
<daftykins> tell you what, are you typing from windows?
<leolol> mhm
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> open up a command prompt
<leolol> yeah
<leolol> i am
<daftykins> and type "ipconfig /all"
<leolol> in windows?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> in the command prompt program
<daftykins> in the mass of info it'll have a 'default gateway' beside say, your wired internet connection
<daftykins> in my case mine's a Marvell Yukon blah blah
<leolol> for some reason my CMD opened up with my default storage space
<leolol> in front
<daftykins> C:\users\your username\ ?
<leolol> yeah
<daftykins> that's normal
<leolol> but the ip thingy isn't working
<daftykins> does typing 'ipconfig /all' not do anything? without the quotes of course
<leolol> must have had a spelling mistake
<daftykins> i loved command line growing up
<leolol> ok so what do you need to know from there?
<daftykins> didn't give you what you wanted? you only have yourself to blame ^_^
<leolol> yeah :P
<daftykins> 'default gateway' and 'dhcp server' should be the same
<daftykins> that'll be your router's IP address, probably 192.168.0.1 for the most common
<leolol> where in the line is this?
<leolol> i see dhcp
<daftykins> on mine it's beneath the network connection i'm using
<daftykins> "Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:"
<leolol> but i can't seem to find the fefault gateway
<leolol> Ipv4 adress?
<daftykins> few more lower...
<daftykins> although if you told me your IPv4 address i might be able to guess your router's IP
<leolol> 192.168.0.15 (prefered)
<leolol> oh i see it
<daftykins> yep sounds like 192.168.0.1 is your router then
<leolol> lol
<leolol> facepalm #2
<daftykins> ok so you can see the difference on windows and Ubuntu
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> 'ping 192.168.0.1' in your command prompt
<daftykins> and do the same on your ubuntu server system
<leolol> in ubuntu or windows
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> windows will do it 4 times
<daftykins> ubuntu will carry on infitely, so you stop it with ctrl+c again
<daftykins> if it even works that is...
<leolol> ok
<leolol> you need to know something about my network?
<leolol> i'm running over powerlan if that makes a difference
<daftykins> between router + both your server and windows PC?
<leolol> linux says it's unreachable
<leolol> yeah
<daftykins> yep, ok i expected as much
<daftykins> nah powerline should be fine
<leolol> windows never made problems with it
<daftykins> so we need to tell the server to get a new IP since it was disconnected before
<leolol> my laptop doesn't like it and windows had to activate something
<daftykins> you can either restart it, or tell it to look for a new one
<leolol> to make it work
<daftykins> we'll try option 2: 'sudo dhclient eth0'
<leolol> hmm it know the IP i told it while setting up
<daftykins> ah ok
<leolol> ok
<leolol> it knows*
<leolol> but i told it my internet IP
<leolol> not my routers
<daftykins> ah that might be what went wrong!
<leolol> so we'll change that :D
<daftykins> indeed ^_^
<leolol> :D
<daftykins> did the above command work though?
<leolol> i'm still so glad that i can finally see something
<leolol> the "ping 192....."
<leolol> yeah
<leolol> without a result
<leolol> oh
<leolol> the other one
<daftykins> nah the next one :D
<leolol> let me try
<daftykins> ja
<leolol> german?
<daftykins> er i learnt some in school years back but i just kinda mess around
<daftykins> i'm from Guernsey
<leolol> where ever that is :P
<leolol> i'm austrian :)
<daftykins> little island between England and France
<daftykins> ah ok ^_^
<leolol> ooh the "no taxes" islands :P
<daftykins> in that case i best not attempt any of my terrible German
<daftykins> hehe, how is it that everyone knows that now XD
<leolol> oh, austria's the same.. not with taxes but we got like ... mhmm
<daftykins> does your local news talk about how the English government is on the war path about us tax havens?
<leolol> nope
<daftykins> ah
<leolol> ^^
<leolol> we got like privacy with banks
<daftykins> ah yeah
<leolol> they aren't allowed to give out information about who owns the conto etc (dono if conto's a word in english)
<leolol> ok linux says
<leolol> nothing atm
<daftykins> try pinging again
<daftykins> you can tap cursor up just like in Windows to repeat older commands
<daftykins> it's not english, but i guess you mean 'account'
<leolol> now i'm just typing.. before that there was always like username@Server in front..
<leolol> yeah i meant account
<daftykins> ah it's kinda stuck thinking
<daftykins> ok, try ctrl+c to give up
<daftykins> that should hopefully return you to the normal 'prompt'
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> back to normal?
<leolol> try the dhclient again?
<daftykins> next step, i think checking if you have some network configuration wrong is a good idea
<daftykins> type 'cat /etc/network/interfaces'
<daftykins> you should see a few lines of text
<daftykins> including 'auto eth0' ?
<leolol> seems to get stuck on that
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-25
<daftykins> the cat command?
<leolol> ok
<leolol> no
<leolol> the dhclient
<daftykins> oh, did ctrl+c not get you back?
<leolol> it did
<leolol> but i tried it again
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> yeah i don't think that one will help
<leolol> it tells me: No such file or directory
<daftykins> is it typed ok?
<daftykins> cat /etc/network/interfaces
<leolol> i'm checking
<leolol> oh there's a space i missed
<daftykins> by the way, saving these commands in a notepad file on your windows PC is a great way to make a 'cheat sheet' to learn from :)
<leolol> yeah it has info in there
<leolol> adress is wrong
<daftykins> does it have many lines after 'auto eth0' ?
<daftykins> ok :)
<leolol> network too.. it's all my internet IP
<leolol> gateway too
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> so, what we want to do is edit those values to ones that will work
<leolol> broadcast is also, just the last 3 digits are different (255 instead of 100)
<daftykins> ok so you're going to use your first CLI text editor :O
<leolol> good or bad? :P
<daftykins> type 'sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces'
<daftykins> good, exciting! :D
<leolol> let me get something to drink :P
<daftykins> i'm on beer #2
<daftykins> i recommend this
<daftykins> :>
<leolol> i'm on loud music and water :P
<leolol> you helped me more then ubuntuforums in 4 days lol
<daftykins> XD
<leolol> lets do this :D
<daftykins> happy to help the first steps \o/
<daftykins> i'm not all that experienced but i know the basics of CLI
<leolol> like a toddler
<leolol> :P
<daftykins> ja baby steps ^_^
<leolol> if i can do anything for you (i'm a graphic designer) just email me at felix.wenzl[at] gmail[dot]com
<daftykins> oooo
<daftykins> do you make logos for companies at all?
<leolol> and btw those 1u rack servers are damn loud. lol
<daftykins> haha yeah they are
<leolol> i make a good amount of corporate identity yeah
<daftykins> sweet :) thanks
<leolol> help for help :)
<leolol> so let's continue :D
<daftykins> wow i added you in my gmail and it auto grabbed a Google+ pic
<daftykins> ok, so now you should be inside 'nano' the text editor
<daftykins> and looking at the contents of that configuration file
<daftykins> you can use your cursor keys to move around to the lines that are wrong
<penguin42> leolol: 1u servers aren't as loud as either 1) a rack full of 1u servers or  2) 4u servers
<leolol> yeah google+ lol
<daftykins> so, i'm guessing you should have 'address' 'netmask' and 'gateway'
<leolol> how do i get into nano??
<leolol> yeah i see those
<daftykins> type 'sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces'
<daftykins> you want 'gateway' to be 192.168.0.1, netmask to be '255.255.255.0'
<daftykins> and 'address' you kind of get to pick - i'd recommend '192.168.0.100'
<daftykins> nice and memorable
<daftykins> hopefully nothing is already using that address on the network...
<leolol> nope can't do that.. it just gets me to my last used command
<leolol> tried that
<leolol> but ut always opens a new command line beginning
<daftykins> the sudo nano line?
<leolol> *it
<leolol> i type that cat /... etc. and i get the result, but i always makes a new line with felix@server
<leolol> so i can't choose the things that i just got
<daftykins> yeah 'cat' just spits out the contents of the file
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
<leolol> so i gotta access it
<daftykins> ^ that opens the file with nano
<leolol> ah ok
<leolol> facepalm #3
<daftykins> it also uses 'sudo' because we need to have the Linux equivalent of 'administrator' rights to edit this file :)
<leolol> ok
<leolol> so i start editing it
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> you want 'gateway' to be 192.168.0.1, netmask to be '255.255.255.0', address to be '192.168.0.100'
<leolol> now i need network, adress and broadcast
<daftykins> those actually won't be necessary
<diddledan_> network and broadcast can be deleted or set to .0 and .255 respectively
<daftykins> well, address was
<daftykins> i'd put a # symbol in front of the network and broadcast
<leolol> yeah got adress
<leolol> ok
<leolol> both to .0?
<daftykins> one sec i'll pastebin an example just so we're 100% ok
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/Fg3sQd1Z
<daftykins> there you go i sort of just copied mine and edited it as an example to how yours should look
<daftykins> it shouldn't matter what order the lines are in
<leolol> x.x.x. or just .0?
<daftykins> with the # at the start of the lines, we're telling it 'ignore this line' so it doesn't matter :)
<daftykins> you could put 'broadcast BEER' and it won't care :D
 * daftykins broadcasts beer to diddledan_ 
<leolol> ah ok thought so
<diddledan_> \o/
<leolol> wht kinda beer btw? :D
<leolol> *what
<daftykins> i'm just drinking some horrible stuff a friend left at my house
<daftykins> Fosters :(
<daftykins> normally i like ales
<diddledan_> "good call" "huru"
<diddledan_> I asked an aussie friend whether she knew the term huru and she'd never heard of it
<leolol> ales are the brigher colored ones?
<daftykins> i like dark ales 8)
<leolol> not familiar with the english terms for beer
<daftykins> schwarz ale 8D
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> leolol: so once you're happy, press ctrl + X to save
<leolol> like a dark ale is a bit strnger then a regular beer? (not talking about those light light light american beers)
<daftykins> yeah strong with a specific taste
<leolol> what should i change the dns nameserver too?
<daftykins> oh it's got more
<daftykins> 192.168.0.1 as well
<leolol> yeah we got awesome beer in austria :)
<daftykins> interesting...
<daftykins> do you have any local ale events?
<leolol> i think isaved it
<leolol> mhmm in vienna for sure
<leolol> but also in the countryside
<daftykins> yeah it should have asked you Y/N/cancel
<daftykins> so Y for yes of course
<daftykins> then it asks to confirm the file name
<leolol> a restaurant i go topretty often when i'm visiting family
<leolol> has like 40 beers
<leolol> i confirmed
<daftykins> "File Name to Write: interfaces"
<daftykins> then you just hit enter
<daftykins> then you're out and back at the prompt yep?
<daftykins> 40 beers :O sounds great
<leolol> yiha
<daftykins> i love trying new ales
<leolol> out of that notepad thingy too
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> so now we want to tell it to reconfigure the network interface with those new values
<leolol> from dark, to bright everything :D
<leolol> one's called "deer beer" :P
<daftykins> 'sudo service networking restart' should do it
<leolol> ok
<daftykins> hehehe
<leolol> so what command? :)
<leolol> ok
<leolol> it isn't scrolling automatically here..
<daftykins> i think it's 'networking', might be 'network'
<daftykins> did it go off the bottom of the screen?
<leolol> one says unknown instance (netowkring)
<leolol> and the other one says unrcognized service
<daftykins> hrmmph
<leolol> the website?
<leolol> yeah it's not auto scrlooing
<leolol> scrolling
<daftykins> so when you type new commands is it just becoming unreadable?
<daftykins> i'm not sure i understand what's happening
<leolol> no
<leolol> i can read it
<daftykins> ok instead of above, try 'sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart'
<leolol> talking about the website here not ubuntu
<leolol> :)
<daftykins> oh ok
<leolol> it is reconfiguring the interfaces
<daftykins> sweet
<daftykins> ping 192.168.0.1 should work now :O
<leolol> ok
<leolol> it says
<leolol> running /etc/init.d/networking restart is deprecated because it may not enable again some interfaces
<leolol> dono if that's normal
<leolol> ^^
<daftykins> yeah, that's ok, it's basically saying 'daftykins doesn't know the real command, he's a BAD person'
<leolol> ok i try that
<leolol> nope
<leolol> it had something with 192.168.0.1 but now it is on .100 and says unreachable
<daftykins> do you have a smartphone / camera you can take pictures of the screen with and upload to imgur.com or some similar site?
<leolol> noep nothing
<leolol> sure
<daftykins> if you type 'ifconfig -a'
<daftykins> then take a picture please
<leolol> you got skype?
<daftykins> yep
<leolol> i could point a webcam at what i do
<daftykins> sounds good \o/
<daftykins> <-- username
<leolol> added
<daftykins> he wasn't joking
<daftykins> it's loud ^_^
<daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-035-OC
<daftykins> 100GB 'SATA 2' SSD for Â£49.99 inc
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> you can get 1TB HDD for same price now too
<ali1234> seems the prices are finally starting to drop again
<ball> ...and there's me juggling files to free up space on a 20G PATA drive.
<ali1234> haha
<daftykins> oh hey ball. long time no see
<daftykins> you were penguin42's partner in crime for running ancient hardware right? :D
<ali1234> i spent the last two days juggling files across about 3TB of total space so i could image a 500GB drive for recovery
<ball> Probably :-)
<ali1234> and then it turned out to be the wrong drive anyway
<daftykins> you know, HD films make saturated gigabit LAN feel slow :(
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigmonkey> irc.UK-IRC.net
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<first-time-here> hi
<first-time-here> i cant do "cat /dev/video0" i get "cat: /dev/video0: Invalid argument"
<penguin42> I'm not sure what the mechanisms for reading video are - not all devices have to respond to normal read/writes
<penguin42> first-time-here: The package 'motion' is a way that has worked for me for recording video easily before
<first-time-here> penguin42: i want to make stream of my webcam
<AndreAM> hello! it's me again. is there anyone who would know how to fix this please: http://askubuntu.com/questions/299789/experiencing-problems-while-trying-to-upgrade-to-pangolin
<AlanBell> hi AndreAM I would definitely go for a reinstall, without overwriting the home directory - and backup first
<penguin42> first-time-here: Yeh, I used motion to do that
<penguin42> first-time-here: Also try guvcview
<AlanBell> or vlc, you can stream a webcam with vlc
<MartijnVdS> you can stream anything with vlc :)
<MartijnVdS> is it june yet?
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<daftykins> waaa D:
<MartijnVdS> eeee!
<daftykins> ^_^
<SuperEngineer> so cool to have a 3 day break instead of working [what seems like] most weekends as as weekdays :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I've had 2 weeks (+ 2 days) off, have to work again on Monday :|
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Monday?  tell them it's a bank hol in UK and to be politically coorect you need to observe it!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah we had one last Monday.. and the thursday the week before that
<SuperEngineer> lucky whatits#
<SuperEngineer> *whatsits
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: blame it on the Catholics ;)
<SuperEngineer> :)
<MartijnVdS> ascension day and "the day after pentecost"
<SuperEngineer> "the day after pentecost"???
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah we extend easter and pentecost by one day, so you get the Monday off work
<MartijnVdS> it's our version of your bank holidays really
<SuperEngineer> typical - to laid back to do it on the day ;)
<MartijnVdS> but more catholic
<daftykins> guys, i was asked to help out with this person doing an EFI install of ubuntu 13.04
<daftykins> apparently 12.04 worked fine in the past
<daftykins> i noticed from repeated questioning and experimentation that, in their two drive setup, the intended boot drive (an SSD) is attached to a Marvell 6Gb SATA controller, whilst the 3TB storage drive is attached to the 3Gb SATA ports provided by the intel chipset
<daftykins> warning bells go off for me for mixing SATA controller, i'd rather have had the SSD on the intel provided 6Gb SATA not the external Marvell controller
<MartijnVdS> that might be the problem.. shouldn't be, but might be
<daftykins> any thoughts?
<MartijnVdS> I'd put it on the intel and try again
<daftykins> apparently 13.04 installs, but at boot time GRUB says something like 'no such partition'
<daftykins> yeah - i was having a hard time convincing this person to feel up to touching the hardware ;x
<daftykins> based on the very acceptable view that 'it worked with 12.04'
<MartijnVdS> well yes
<daftykins> although of course kernel support for the different controllers could be what's going wrong
<MartijnVdS> maybe the system is confused (or the EFI partition is confused?)
<daftykins> yeah, there is a total GPT/MBR headache going on too
<daftykins> i want the 3TB disk to be disconnected completely for the install
<daftykins> so that the SSD is there on its' own
<daftykins> because throughout the whole thing (i'm like the 4th person getting involved or something) the SSD has been sdb
<daftykins> i tend to be pretty perfectionist about all OS installs, you'd never get me allowing my OS drive to be anything other than the primary
<MartijnVdS> it should not be a problem
<MartijnVdS> as long as the 3TB disk doesn't have an EFI partition (and the SSD does)
<daftykins> apparently the 3TB is GPT'd also - it has evidence of having had Windows on it before
<daftykins> and the 3 partition setup
<MartijnVdS> 3TB has to be GPT, I think? because MBR only supports up to 2TB?
<daftykins> yep
<MartijnVdS> but GPT isn't the issue, the EFI boot partition is
<daftykins> i'd rather run the install with just the SSD connected just to rule it out personally
<MartijnVdS> if both disks have EFI partitions, one with "old" 12.04 grub, one with "new" 13.04 grub, it'll probably confuse itself
<daftykins> yeah that's the other thing, we don't 100% know the 'state' of each disk
<MartijnVdS> Time to break out the backup disks and wipe before reinstalling ;)
<daftykins> the Asus motherboard's boot options refer to the Windows Loader being present, so there might be remnants of a Windows 7/8 install on the 3TB i think
<daftykins> hehe, yeah apparently the SSD is easily nuked
<daftykins> so that should make some of it easy
<daftykins> i was almost tempted, in googling about, to ask them to run this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bootinfoscript/
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<SuperEngineer> whoopee! just found why the last few kernel updates have done the headers but not the kernel!
<daftykins> :o?
<SuperEngineer> the generic package is no longer installed [probably removed during an over zealous clear up long time ago]
<daftykins> hehe oops
<SuperEngineer> but which should I reinstall?
<daftykins> so you were getting the latest version header package but staying on the oldest kernel you had on?
<SuperEngineer> linux-generic?
<SuperEngineer> linux image-generic?
<daftykins> may as well
<MartijnVdS> linux-generic = ok
<daftykins> unless any more specific flavour benefits you
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: (hint: probably not ;))
<daftykins> :D
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: only if there is a "banana" or "coffee" flavour ;)
<daftykins> mmm coffee
<daftykins> i just had a late lunch from Costa
<daftykins> the carrot cake is still sat on my desk...
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: speaking of coffee: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/bieren/
<daftykins> the caramel latte was great as always \o/
<daftykins> this is the trouble with living right on the high street of the islands capital
<daftykins> the Costa and 3 other cofffe shops are all within 50m of my front door
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: My brothers made those beers, one has coffee in it (they used 8l on a 300l tank)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: which island is that? or are you rich? ;)
<daftykins> lol no not rich
<daftykins> Guernsey
<daftykins> we're in the news a lot for Cameron being angry at tax havens
<MartijnVdS> Also, I wonder what "the high street" of London would be
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> it seems to have several
<daftykins> ours is a road literally called 'High Street' XD
<daftykins> http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=49.456106,-2.536581&spn=0.0034,0.003932&t=m&z=18
<daftykins> \o/
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: hmm your brothers and I have something in common
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: lots of noms de rues franÃ§aises
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: coffee and beer?
<daftykins> indeed, 'tis a very French influenced place :)
<daftykins> hearing English / tourists pronounce place names is hilarious
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's probably like my GPS
 * SuperEngineer used to be a [rather good] brewer
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: hehehe
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: when I was driving to Cornwall, its Dutch voice was pronouncing all the names
<daftykins> lmao
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: and that makes lots of place names come out French-ish
<MartijnVdS> (places ending in "-mouth" come to mind)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i was over at my parents last night, doing stuff on their ancient Athlon XP + nforce2 setup i put together years ago from spares
<daftykins> the hard disk is streaming hardware ECC errors in its' SMART info
<daftykins> i changed the PATA ribbon cable first naturally, but it kept going - probably going to die catastrophically some day isn't it? :D
<MartijnVdS> eeeek
<MartijnVdS> Once SMART starts to cry, you run to the store
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> too true
<daftykins> although PATA - won't be buying anything fresh of that :D
<daftykins> sadly it's one of the two Abit NF7 boards that doesn't have the Silicon Image 3112a based SATA ports :<
<MartijnVdS> but.. they've been saving money for a new computer.. right? :)
<daftykins> hahaha
 * SuperEngineer loves the phrase "donker bier" [even if he does know the tanslation - it sounds good ;)
<daftykins> blowing it on constant home 'improvements' =/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "donker" = dark
<daftykins> crazy old girl is after replacing the entire kitchen again
<daftykins> there's nothing wrong with it >_<
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: They've just "gone pro" after a crowd-funding run among friends and family, these are their first 2 beers (after brewing almost 50 one-off homebrews)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I wish the the very best of luck
<SuperEngineer> all free samples this way please - purely for quality control of course ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they'll be in the UK in August I think
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: cool
 * SuperEngineer looks forward to free samples ;()
<SuperEngineer> back in 90 minutes - f1 qualifying replay time  :-)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: have you got any experience with uEFI Ubuntu installs at all? i'm wondering if you can tell / choose whether you boot 13.04 in legacy mode
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I did one once.. but it was a clean install on a clean system
<daftykins> i wonder if i can EFI install in a VM
<daftykins> probably not
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/OVMF
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: + http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52996/how-to-boot-efi-kernel-using-qemu-kvm
<daftykins> ah i don't run Linux on the desktop
<MartijnVdS> VMWare can do EFI guestsd
<MartijnVdS> vbox seems to be able to do efi guests as well
<daftykins> hmmz
<daftykins> time to download 13.04 for fun
<daftykins> wow 13.04 still has the same ugly boot logo and menu on the liveCD
<daftykins> < Parsi> sudo dd if=/usr/lib/syslinux/mbr.bin of=/dev/sda6
<daftykins> got some guy that ran that on his windows partition :X
<daftykins> hmm, indeed there appears to be no information regarding what *form* of partition table ubuntu creates during install
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<daftykins> ok this has been pretty handy to learn a bit more
<popey> Â¡ola!
<daftykins> hi popey
<daftykins> oops nearly called you pipey
<Laney> put that in your pope and smoke it
<daftykins> Laney: :D
<daftykins> pub time
<mungbean> trying to sort out my ISAs ...what a pain
<Laney> not looking forward to having to transfer mine later this year
<Laney> stupid bonus periods
<mungbean> modern life is stressful
<mungbean> 1 day per year to sort out ISA
<mungbean> another to sort out home insurance
<mungbean> then car insurance, etc, etc
<mungbean> because everything is designed to rip you off
<mungbean> not to mention phone line/broadband
<mungbean> nationwide isa.interest rate 2.25% until sep 2014..then 0.5%
<penguin42> mungbean: THey normally get a bit more desperate at the end of the tax year
<mungbean> this is cool flight sim vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipWoINtJX0
<ball> Is there software for Ubuntu or Xubuntu that can write music files to an Apple iPod Nano (in a form that it can play)?
<MartijnVdS> rhythmbox?
<MartijnVdS> just drag the file to the device?
<MartijnVdS> maybe banshee?
<ball> Oh. I thought the iPod needed some sort of database "thing" made on it before it would play the files.
<MartijnVdS> it does
<MartijnVdS> and banshee knows how to handle that
<MartijnVdS> and rhythmbox
<ball> Oh.
<MartijnVdS> if it's not the newest possible version
<ball> I'll see if I can install one of those on her PC then.
<MartijnVdS> sometimes the very latest versions don't work
<MartijnVdS> because Apple wants you to use Apple hard/software ONLY
 * ball nods
<ball> vendor lock-in.
<ball> If I were buying her a music player, it wouldn't be an iPod.  Her mum has an old one though.
<ball> iPod Nano 4th gen. I think.
<MartijnVdS> old ones tend to be fine (because they've been reverse-engineered)
<ball> Too new for Rockbox but hopefully old enough for Rhythmbox
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
 * ball waves
 * penguin42 yawns
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-26
<daftykins> penguin42: i hear ya
<penguin42> busy tonight on here....
<daftykins> you are?
<daftykins> oh the idle
<daftykins> i just got in from the pub
<daftykins> i'm a little bit tipsy it must be said :(
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> in fact i went to the pub before i had eaten anything
<daftykins> so now i need to go and make some food
<daftykins> but my affliction is that i always spell pretty much perfectly even when under the influence :<
<penguin42> haha - no pub grub?
<daftykins> i was too late for that really
<daftykins> over here, the good pub that sells good ales doesn't do food :(
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> R5L, 12:00 (UK) - F1
<MartijnVdS> As it's only on Sky and/or other for-pay TV Channels :(
<brobostigon> <----------- hangover central,
<MartijnVdS> f1 sounds = good for afternoon nap ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> interesting films on, the original italian job, then ST6, :)
<brobostigon> film4.
<popey> I was singing the songs from the Italian Job last week while driving in these mountains... https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/cyjf6jYnTyS
<popey> This didn't inspire confidence in my driving with my brother and sister
<brobostigon> lol, woops.
<MooDoo> just looked at the images on g+, it looks stunning.
<popey> yeah, was amazing. took loads of pics, didn't want to flood with tooooo many â»
<brobostigon> i just noticed something, in the background, in charlie's flat in TIJ, a private eye poster in the background.
<daftykins> ah-har that person's on with the EFI troubles
<daftykins> i'm trying to convince the SATA port swap first \o/
<daftykins> and disconnecting the other drive for fun
<MartijnVdS> popey: The tire is still inflated ;)
<daftykins> popey: did you work out how to rescue all the gold bullion then? ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Baroque Cycle reference? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: (with popey as Jack Shaftoe)
<daftykins> Italian Job ;) as he mentioned above about his pics
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<MartijnVdS> still.. stealing gold from the south of Spain is one of the things that sets the plot of the Baroque Cycle going ;)
<daftykins> the who what now? :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baroque_Cycle
<daftykins> 0o
<MartijnVdS> it's a good set of books/doorstops ;)
<daftykins> history is a big snore for me a lot of the time, sadly
<daftykins> making some progress here at last
<daftykins> got the SSD on the onboard 6Gb SATA
<daftykins> and found out the BIOS is ancient
<daftykins> scratch that, my hair pulling moment is getting closer
<daftykins> :(
<brobostigon> like a homer moment, when he finds out marge is pregnant.
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> it's ok, we're back on track
<daftykins> just frustrating at times when you're helping someone that isn't quite as content to change hardware things as you yourself would be
<SuperEngineer> '\o/'
<penguin42> which reminds me, I need to figure out how to get the case back on my nook with the serial lead
<SuperEngineer> back in a mo - just realised I'm on 3G dongle - switching to wireless
<daftykins> YES \o/
<daftykins> dafty wins again, the lass' EFI install worked this time :)
<MartijnVdS> yay
<daftykins> taking the SSD off the external Marvell controller and making it become /dev/sda instead of sdb was the ticket
<daftykins> plus a bit of judicial partition nuking with gparted before running ubiquity
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: aww she got a kernel panic on reboot after an upgrade :(
<penguin42> daftykins: What panic?
<daftykins> "kernel panic -nott syncing attempted to kill init!"
<daftykins> she typed that
<daftykins> i'm asking her to try booting the older kernel
<MartijnVdS>   sounds like it can't find / /
<MartijnVdS> ?
<daftykins> the liveCD installed -19 kernel worked fine
<daftykins> -22 gave the panic, though i'm not sure if maybe it was just a one off
<MartijnVdS> weirdness
<daftykins> sequence of events are that she updated, then overwrote her /home with a backup from 12.04
<MartijnVdS> maybe the update-grub confused the system
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm trying to remember, trying to kill init suggests it found an init but then died - odd
<penguin42> I want this display: http://www.pcworld.com/video/26362/inside-at-t-s-network-operations-center.html
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: if it has its initramdisk, it has an "init"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: if that can't find the proper /, it'll "die"
<penguin42> true
<daftykins> ah it just worked on a second try
<daftykins> so maybe it was a fluke
<daftykins> i recommended running memtest sometime to be sure the system is ok, but maybe it was just a one-off
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<daftykins> sure was
<daftykins> apparently it's saying permission denied a lot as she's overwriting all her ~/ dot files 0o
<daftykins> surely not many of them are locked during use?
<penguin42> she hasn't created a new user or has two installs and this is a different install?
<daftykins> the old /home is from a 12.04 yeah - i had her chmod it to her username to move over as she wanted her config back
<penguin42> maybe a chown -R ? On the directory not on directory/*
<daftykins> yeah did that
<daftykins> i think she installed with encryption so that might've caused the temporary panic before?
<daftykins> can you make the login screen the same resolution as your desktop res? for like in a VM where the native resolution isn't auto set
<daftykins> is there an easy way to remount /dev/shm as read+write versus read only?
<penguin42> wth would /dev/shm be read only?!
<daftykins> oh, turns out her chroot didn't have /dev/shm at all
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> penguin42: apparently it's a security consideration :D
<daftykins> although basically she's decrypting her /home in the livecd to try and copy the other /home backup onto it
<daftykins> if that makes sense
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> i've no idea why it was proving so impossible within desktop, but that's the idea she's come up with
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> only thing I can think is stuff getting confused if she has two lvm volume groups with the same name?
<daftykins> i got her to install with LVM off
<daftykins> what'd be the right way to mount /dev/shm for the chroot? she tried: sudo mount -o bind /dev/shm /mnt/dev/shm
<daftykins> penguin42: kristenbb is the one with the /home troubles, not sure if you feel like helping out - you've definitely more experience than me :D
<kristenbb> hi
<penguin42> oh oh.....
<penguin42> kristenbb: So what state is this thing in then?
<kristenbb> how can I access my encrypted home from a live cd ? I tried mounting the system (and binding proc, sys and dev) and then chrooting into it, but when I 'su kristenbb', it says: 'open: permission denied. error locking counter'. How to avoid that ?
<penguin42> kristenbb: When you say encrypted, is that encrypted whole dist (luks/lvm) or is it ecryptfs - just encrypted home?
<kristenbb> just home
<penguin42> ^dist^disk
<penguin42> ah, hmm I've only done whole disk
<kristenbb> well with 12.04 I was able to decrypt the home folder with just the commands above, plus ecryptfs-mount-private
<kristenbb> but here with 13.04 I get this error locking counter error.
<penguin42> I've not seen that counter message before
<daftykins> surprises are what we love though right? :D
<daftykins> tackling the root cause of trying to just overwrite the /home data outside of the livecd could be another plan though
<daftykins> but yeah we were both stumped as to why that would do that
<penguin42> kristenbb: did you run the ecryptfs-mount-private before running the su ?
<kristenbb> no
<kristenbb> the sequence was:
<kristenbb> the bunch of mount commands, then chroot, then su kristen, then the error message (this is the output, but the command still returns)
<kristenbb> and then if I try ecryptfs-mount-private, it remains encrypted.
<penguin42> ok, try the ecrypytfs-mount-private before the su
<mungbean> what a numpty i am
<daftykins> her chroot didn't have /dev/shm at all, which seemed to be what it wants for the decrypt
<mungbean> faffed around installing kindle app on wine,
<mungbean> just realisd chrome has a kindle app
<mungbean> no faffing required
<kristenbb> penguin42: are you sure it makes sense ? If I don't log into /home/kristen, how would it know which user to decrypt ? It would try to decrypt the root home, would it not ?
<penguin42> kristenbb: Well, according to the thing on the web it looks for a .Private directory
 * penguin42 should at this point state I've never done this
<kristenbb> penguin42: if I use it from root, it says: error: encrypted private directory is not setup properly
 * kristenbb never have I
<kristenbb> on 13.04
<kristenbb> but on 12.04 it worked fine.
<penguin42> don't know then - I've never used ecryptfs - always stuck to luks
<kristenbb> it seems an overkill to encrypt system files that are otherwise public. just my own files would be enough, and would be probably faster too
<penguin42> kristenbb: Well, that depends
<kristenbb> besides aren't there cold boot issues with full disk encryption ?
<penguin42> kristenbb: Since luks encrypts everything it doesn't have the same per-file penalty, but it does have per-block penalty
<penguin42> kristenbb: It's not quite full - /boot isn't encrypted
<penguin42> kristenbb: But it does mean things like swap and any place you might drop temporaries get encrypted
<kristenbb> so what to do from here?  Yet another install ? I've had a lot of issues to install this one, many many hours spent in the last week, over 10 installs
<penguin42> you've got different problems if you're doing 10 installs - go back, what's the full story
<kristenbb> that's a long story
<penguin42> kristenbb: First, what are you installing on?
<daftykins> the EFI troubles i solved by helping her change SATA port, penguin42
<penguin42> oh god EFI
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> SSD was on an external controller by Marvell before
<daftykins> i figured it was causing issues
<daftykins> kristenbb: which made 11th time the charm, didn't it? :D
<penguin42>  'external controller' - what do you mean?
<kristenbb> daftykins: yes it did
<daftykins> her motherboard has a Marvell chip alongside the intel PCH SATA ports
<daftykins> providing two additional SATA 6Gb/sec ports
<penguin42> kristenbb: So hang on, forgetting about the little issue of your encrypted data, what state is everything in?
<kristenbb> penguin42: everything is fine
<daftykins> penguin42: she's got a fresh EFI install on the SSD, with some data on a 3TB storage drive beside it
<kristenbb> penguin42: I would just like to get it working again, by copying my old home into my new computer
<penguin42> kristenbb: ok, great - now you say you can get to the encrypted data from 12.04 ?
<kristenbb> penguin42: and incidentally, I'd like to be able to get to my files from a live cd if anything should go wrong
<kristenbb> penguin42: I don't have 12.04 anymore, but I copied my old home into another drive, yes
<penguin42> kristenbb: OK, hang on - what version do you have currently installed?
<kristenbb> 13.04
<penguin42> with encryption or without?
<kristenbb> with
<kristenbb> with home encryption
<kristenbb> not full disk
<penguin42> ok, what I was about to suggest won't work then
<penguin42> what is your install on, and what is your old encrypted data on?
<kristenbb> the old home is not encrypted
<kristenbb> anymore
<penguin42> so why are you trying to use ecryptfs-recover-private?
<kristenbb> I just plan to copy it back into the new system, and securely delete it.
<kristenbb> penguin42: I'm just trying to copy these unencrypted files into my new home, which is encrypted
<penguin42> but if you boot into your 13.04 doesn't automagically decrypt them - or is that the problem?
<kristenbb> it does, but it says permission error on some files when I try to copy them, I'm assuming that's because they're in use
<kristenbb> hence all the livecd and chrooting issues
<kristenbb> however
<penguin42> kristenbb: OK, so let me just clarify; your new 13.04 is running just fine with encrypted home directory all perms are fine, no problem ?
<kristenbb> even if there's another solution to copy the files into the new home without going through the chroot issues, I'd still like to know how to access my files from outside the new system, jusst in case
<kristenbb> penguin42: right
<penguin42> kristenbb: OK, so the only problem is extracting the data from the old home?
<kristenbb> penguin42: well I did have a kernel panic, but maybe it was just random
<kristenbb> penguin42: no
<penguin42> kristenbb: So what's the other problem?
<kristenbb> penguin42: the only problem is putting the data back to the new home.
<penguin42> kristenbb: Right, ok
<kristenbb> penguin42: the extraction is done.
<penguin42> kristenbb: as root, chown -R youruser on the old data, then as your new user copy that data
<kristenbb> from the livecd?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> kristenbb: From your booted, happy system
<penguin42> kristenbb: on your booted happy system, where is your old data?
<kristenbb> this I had done before, and I got these permission errors
<kristenbb> penguin42: another disk
<penguin42> kristenbb: OK, lets take it step at a time
<kristenbb> penguin42: but as I said, I'd still like to be able to access my new home from outside the new system, in case anything ever happens.
<kristenbb> and I think that if I solve this issue, I'll be able to solve the other one regarding the permission errors as well.
<penguin42> kristenbb: well, I don't know how to do that with ecryptfs except as suggested with that webpage, and if that's not working I've not got any suggestions on that except don't use it
<kristenbb> :(
<penguin42> I can do it with luks, but I've never touched ecryptfs - you might have more look if you find an ecryptfs wrangler
<penguin42> but as you might notice, I kind of treat ecryptfs like dangerous black magic
<daftykins> >:D
<kristenbb> :'(
<daftykins> i was amused at the black magic reference but yeah that's a shame
<daftykins> i didn't follow the above sadly as i'm on the phone
<penguin42> kristenbb: So if you boot a 13.04 rescue disk and then try that manual ecryptfs stuff can you unlock it?
<kristenbb> by rescue disk you mean live cd ?
<penguin42> yeh
<kristenbb> and what do you mean by manual ?
<penguin42> well using the ecryptfs-mount-private from the live cd
<kristenbb> well no I can't unlock it using this command, that's the whole point of my question.
<penguin42> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2011/04/introducing-ecryptfs-recover-private.html  says to run the ecryptfs-recover-private under sudo - not as your user
<kristenbb> my question is: how to unlock my home folder from a live cd, seeing as I get this 'error locking counter' error when chrooting and then using 'su kristen'.
<penguin42> kristenbb: Try following that page and don't do the su
<kristenbb> well then if I don't do the su, I get this other error
<kristenbb> error: encrypted private directory is not setup correctly
<penguin42> ok, then you need an ecryptfs expert - sorry, I don't know where to go on that
<kristenbb> would you happen to know one ? :)
<penguin42> no
<kristenbb> :(
<penguin42> I think they all hide from people trying to recover their data
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<daftykins> kristenbb: sorry we couldn't get 100% of the way :(
<kristenbb> it's ok i'll be waiting until someone that knows how to solve this gets here
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> i wonder if it's the encryption not helping
<kristenbb> but this has nothing to do with ecryptfs though, even without writing anything encryption related, i get this error with su. this is anormal
<daftykins> i was thinking back to the main task of just the /home overwriting really
<kristenbb> what will happeen when I really need to recover my home though?
 * penguin42 pats luks
<penguin42> Rule number 5: When debugging something that doesn't make sense, check you're looking at the right log file
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<daftykins> penguin42: #6: on the right system
<daftykins> <--been there done that
<penguin42> hehe yes
<penguin42> kind of just about has his Nook ST running X  - but it's far from happy :-)
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> just for fun? :)
<penguin42> well yeh and insanity :-)
 * penguin42 has an xclock on the display, but there are some...minor... problems
<penguin42> like it not getting the touchscreen and it only updating the eink display when I give it a command
<daftykins> penguin42: heh i bet doing graphics would work it harder than its' used to :D
<penguin42> yeh someone has a demo with angry birds running on it with a kernel patch to put the eink into fastmode, but I've not figured that out yet
<mungbean> whats it like as an ebook rdr
<daftykins> penguin42: were you able to contact the guy? or do you want the challenge for yourself? :D
<penguin42> mungbean: Awful iMHO - it offers a choice of a font too large or a font too small; I'm hoping I can put something nicer on; I guess that's also doable under android
<penguin42> daftykins: there are some patches and stuff I'm using and I've asked some people who've got a bit further on different models as well
<daftykins> cool :)
<mungbean> not even 30 quid worth penguin42 ?
<mungbean> maybe font is easily hackable
<penguin42> mungbean: I guess it depends what you're reading - I was trying to read PDFs, I suspect stuff specifically formatted for it are probably OK
<penguin42> daftykins: Nook supply the kernel source which is good; it's a bit ancient though
<daftykins> ah that's good of them
<penguin42> it's 2.6.29 which is a bit grim (too old for udev for example) - it's not clear to me what the parentage of the source is, and there are loads of different Android and ARM trees out there
<daftykins> penguin42: you could be the official cyanogenmod project runner :O
<daftykins> penguin42: to port CM onto it \o/
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> how are you today bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> daftykins: splendid thank you. And yourself?
<daftykins> yep, tired but good thanks :)
<daftykins> just got introduced to Joe Walsh - Life's Been Good :O
<bigcalm> Whom?
<daftykins> bigcalm: some famous musician
<daftykins> anyone - is it ok to just create custom scripts in /etc/init.d/ called whatever i want?
<penguin42> yes
<daftykins> cool
<daftykins> i found a guide how to do what i was after
<daftykins> http://www.glennposton.com/posts/how_to_get_noip_client_working_in_ubuntu_1104
<daftykins> helping this guy out
<daftykins> that was a init script for a dynamic domain updater :>
<daftykins> from noip
<daftykins> penguin42: what do i run to find out what a file is? i downloaded a java .jar but it might be zipped or something :S
<penguin42> jar's are zips themselves
<penguin42> daftykins: use the    file    command
<daftykins> ah that's the one
<daftykins> craftbukkit-dev.jar: Zip archive data, at least v2.0 to extract
<directhex> yeah, jar files *are* zips
<directhex> so are docx, and odt
<directhex> and zip]
<daftykins> i just installed oracle java
<daftykins> i can't even tab complete this jar let alone run it
<daftykins> java craftbukkit-dev.jar
<daftykins> Error: Could not find or load main class craftbukkit-dev.jar
<directhex> java -jar
<daftykins> aaah
<daftykins> ty sir :)
<daftykins> 02:51:30 [WARNING] Can't keep up! Did the system time change, or is the server overloaded?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> need to adjust the RAM parameters i see
<penguin42> dpkg on uSD is slow
<daftykins> penguin42: :(
<penguin42> I guess I should swap to the class 10 I got
<daftykins> definitely
<daftykins> overclock that sucker ;)
 * penguin42 is just waiting for epiphany-browser to install 
<daftykins> alright i think it's time to sleep
<daftykins> i'm going to Sark on the boat with friends tomorrow hopefully
<daftykins> (small island near mine with 600 people and no cars)
<penguin42> nod I've heard of it
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> which island are you on?
<daftykins> it's a beaut
<daftykins> Guernsey here
<penguin42> nice
<daftykins> Sark's quite literally in my bailiwick :)
<daftykins> hmm 10am there and 6pm back boats
<daftykins> Â£27.80 omfg
<penguin42> cheaper than getting to London from here
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> penguin42 directhex thanks for the help guys, nn!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-19
<diddledan> omg: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/16/apple-google-settlement/
<diddledan> aah it's not as important as I thought it was after reading it
<daftykins> can't we just get along?
<diddledan> only as long as you don't make your sheet of glass flat and rectangular
<diddledan> virgin media have netflix
<diddledan> that's new
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> and they have their tivo thingy
<daftykins> as in, an app on their set top box?
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> sky on the other hand are trying to make a new walled garden of their own
<daftykins> indeed, i saw it had updated on the boss' box
<daftykins> i got asked to take a look at it one day haha, as no channels were working
<daftykins> the ol' power cord trick did it
<diddledan> one of my lnb feeds is broken on my sky setup :-(
<diddledan> I need to call sky to come over to fix it
<daftykins> it's probably cheaper just to buy a new LNB and slap it on :>
<daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/16/imessages-issue-lawsuit/
<daftykins> lol
<diddledan> yeah I saw that
<diddledan> bit of a stupid situation apple landed themselves in with that
<diddledan> I guess they thought once someone had an iphone they wouldn't ever want to go elsewhere
<shauno> it's just messups in layers
<diddledan> shauno, like the third reich?
<shauno> eg, the address book lets you put in phone numbers as different types .. phone, office, etc.  one of htem is 'iphone'
<shauno> if you put in a number as an iphone number, when it's not going to an iphone, you'll cause exactly the same situation
<diddledan> hah
<shauno> and then there's imessage taking way too long to timeout on delivering it as an imessage, which has to time out on your side & apple's (before it gives up and resends as sms)
<daftykins> hey guys
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxxd6kokb2xwfcx/IMG_20140516_165146.jpg
<daftykins> i just can't giggle enough at those prices
<shauno> you've never priced out a xeon workstation from another vendor then?
<shauno> last time I tried, there was surprisingly little difference between dell & apple
<daftykins> i haven't no
<diddledan> the dual firepro amd GPU cards is prolly a large percentage of that
<shauno> it's amazing how much difference (price-wise) the xeon makes :/  (what actual difference it makes, I have no idea .. I have no xeons recent enough to compare)
<diddledan> I don't get the difference between workstation class gpu and gaming gpu is
<daftykins> someone i know from another channel was actually speccing up a cheap upgrade
<daftykins> instead of an i5, she picked some Xeon 2354 or similar, it seems to perform as well as an i7-4770K but for Â£200
<shauno> the one in the "entry level" mac pro is a $600 processor :/
<daftykins> exchange rate is almost 1.7:1 right now :O
<shauno> the gpus are weird though.  it's not two running in parallel.  only one of them actually has any influence on the display
<shauno> the other one is entirely deadweight unless you have one of very few loads that use it for computation rather than graphics
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtorpc6mk0qdc7t/IMG_20140519_014933.jpg
<daftykins> have an olive
<shauno> lol, nice
<shauno> I think all in all the price isn't the bizarre part.  it's trying to put a xeon workstation in a small form-factor  (and people who'll pay the extra grand without actually requiring a workstation)
<shauno> I've completely messed my sleep pattern up :/  antibiotics kick me in the pants
<diddledan> shauno, welcome to nocturnal
<daftykins> shauno: you were pretty quirky before no? doesn't that mean you're waking up normally for a 9-5 now? :D
<shauno> I've always been "quirky"  but napping 2-10pm took it to a whole new level
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> i just got linked to this
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/gallery/0K2iD
<daftykins> the postman pat one omg
<diddledan> omg. bbc three right now - tyger the older boy from "outnumbered" - his dad happens to be britain's number one male porn start
<diddledan> star*
<shauno> I had no idea they were ranked
<shauno> I think this'll make me "officially old", but there's actually some pretty decent stuff on radio4
<shauno> hm, youtube buying Twitch doesn't sound like it'll end well for anyone
<daftykins> oh deary me
<daftykins> confirmed happening?
<shauno> not confirmed yet, that I know of
<daftykins> oh guys this is gold
<daftykins> http://jimllpaintit.tumblr.com/
<brx_> anyone got a link for the new game of thrones?
<daftykins> that's not appropriate for this channel or network
<brx_> soz dad
<daftykins> lawl so funny
<daftykins> took you 7 minutes to come up with that
<brx_> your mum said stop being cheeky to your new dad
<daftykins> you should be asleep it's a school night
<brx_> daftykins, shut up and find me a link
<daftykins> leave.
<brx_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkL1K3rLPWw
<shauno> ooh, I forgot it's GoT night.  that'll mean there's another episode of Cosmos up
<brx_> i really wanna watch it :(
<shauno> then quit wasting your time in the wrong place
<daftykins> shauno: http://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/137320543/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/tumblr_mixypynaCh1s6ylubo1_1280.jpg
<shauno> henry vs dyson.  that's difficult
<shauno> wait, tyson on a dyson?
<daftykins> apparently it's goldie
<daftykins> whom i do not know
<shauno> ow
<brx_> hes a drum and bass producer. dafty the next link had better be got or im gonna have to regulate you
<brx_> daftykins*
<daftykins> that was ace
<daftykins> i thought the degenerate drink of choice was white lightning though, what's that stuff 0o
<shauno> I get the impression that's what he's going for, but with a less family-friendly name
<brx_> IVE FOUND IT
<brx_> SCREW YOU daftykins
<daftykins> i'd prefer you go die in a fire now
<brx_> RIGHTUPYOURARSE
<daftykins> sorry i'm more into the ladies.
<brx_> well you just too a length. i hope you enjoyed that.
<brx_> im only joking mate, have a good night
<daftykins> in all seriousness are you <20?
<brx_> 17
<brx_> i bossed you though didnt i?
<daftykins> nope not even a good try
<daftykins> also you sound like a real chav :( but i'm getting personal now so i shall stop
<brx_> a chav? far from it
<brx_> daftykins can we make friends
<jussi> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<jussi> morning mr MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo:
<davmor2> morning
<MooDoo> davmor2: ello
<MooDoo> how are you jussi davmor2
<jussi> MooDoo: not bad. still in the "alive" area... :D
<MooDoo> cool
<Myrtti> I'm still stiff and sore :-|
<Myrtti> also feeling a bit paranoid about my nose being a bit stuffy
<Myrtti> was sitting in the back garden yesterday waiting for the bbq to warm up when something wet landed on the edge of my sunglass and in my eye
<Myrtti> --> now wondering what kind of eye pox I get
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Alien spores.
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: bird flu or something like that has occurred to me
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: maybe it was just some insect droppings
<Myrtti> https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/p180x540/10341857_10152442119142065_6535201542531891974_n.jpg
<Myrtti> evidence says no
<MartijnVdS> BBQ grease?
<Myrtti> bird poop
<MartijnVdS> A drop from a leaky airplane toilet
<Myrtti> and that's supposed to make me feel better than the thought of a bird poop?
<Myrtti> you failed, my friend
<MartijnVdS> oh you wanted to feel *better* :P
<MartijnVdS> sorry ;)
<Myrtti> :-P
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: sprinting lots of meetings
<czajkowski> davmor2: boo
<Laney> virgin fault this morning
 * Laney wah
 * Laney lag
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<xnox> Laney: hm, virgin announced downtime for me on friday. what is all about, i wonder....
<Laney> xnox: gremlins crawling around the cablez
<Laney> about three days to crawl from london to nottm
<xnox> Laney: that's ok, i have a water sprinkler. oh wait....
<Laney> sounds plausible to me
<mapps> feel so grateful that we could
<mapps> donated 2.5k to kings a&e few months back and theres people crying over 2 quid
<mapps> :D
<dvrr> Hi  everyone ..............
<czajkowski> Myrtti: are you close to Helsinki oslo or stockholm!
<Myrtti> nope :-/
<czajkowski> jussi: I'm coming! June 11th to Helsinki
<Myrtti> merry old England for me
<jussi> czajkowski: woohoo!
<czajkowski> June 12th Stockholm
<czajkowski> and June 10th Oslo
<czajkowski> you had better show your face! :)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ohh didnt know you're over here now full time
<Laney> haz internet
<jussi> Laney: congratulations :D
<Laney> :P
<dvrr> How  to configure  windows user authentication by linux samba ldap   centos 6  please  guide me
<dvrr> i configured in centos 5.6 it's working but  how to configure  centos 6
<feisar_> I believe you want to be looking at SSSD
<dvrr> MooDoo:
<daftykins> hrmm i have an old macbook of a pals to look at today
<jussi> daftykins: dont do it! :P
<jussi> itll poison you! :P
<daftykins> it's ok i'm immune!
<daftykins> i have to deal with macs for someone and i already lul at their fair share of problems
<jussi> :)
<jussi> daftykins: ok then, but use protection...... :P?
<daftykins> jussi: ok, Naked Gun full body you know what now donned
<jussi> ...
<jussi> daftykins: you scared Moodoo off!  :P
<daftykins> he always was a wee bit squeamish
<jussi> lol
<Myrtti> could someone fix my ice hockey video stream ;___;
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: done! did my fix work?
<SuperEngineer> [might take a while for the telepathy to work]
<Myrtti> no :-(
<SuperEngineer> darn!
<Myrtti> I've paid to see this game on this shoddy stream ;____;
<SuperEngineer> I just phoned Microsoft to see if they could you - they asked "have you tried rebboting?"
<SuperEngineer> *rebooting
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<popey> hello all
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<SuperEngineer> popey is now known as popeyjustranamileinfrightcozsomeonewentboo!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> ditto
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> hi sir
<daftykins> s
<awilkins> Some of us are in the tail end of the afternoon
<daftykins> i hate macs.
<awilkins> Someone wants me to port an application to one
<daftykins> they don't give decent reasons as to why they won't boot things :P
<daftykins> o rly
<awilkins> It's a Java app
<daftykins> that's... surely not much work then?
<awilkins> So technically it should just be a matter of dropping in the Mac binaries for the native libs it uses
<awilkins> But also have to remove the references to i) The Windows Registry ii) Outlook and iii) The Windows help system
<awilkins> I feel some dependency injection coming on
<awilkins> Well, I think I'll just straight out port the help to something less awful
<awilkins> I mean, it's basically an embedded browser... you'd think the help would be available from within it...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> alrighty, making some progress with this thing at last
<diddledan> I guess I need to go into the hoffice
<diddledan> tomorro**
<diddledan> my colleague has riled management by doing something he believed they agreed to which they're backpeddling
<daftykins> diddledan: =/ are you skiving?
<diddledan> nah
<daftykins> just work from home? o0
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> soo i've managed to install snow leopard and update to lion on this old late 2007 macbook
<daftykins> but it still has a disk with bad sectors and a dead battery :D
<shauno> wouldn't you be tempted to do something about the disk before you worry about putting an OS on it ?
<daftykins> it's a mates with no money :)
<daftykins> so i was more seeing what OS would go on to start to deem whether he could sell it for much
<daftykins> as it goes, Lion is the newest this one can run
<daftykins> you can get replacement batteries for Â£16 O_O
<daftykins> ebay specials mind, so not legit i'm sure
<brobostigon> question, why would you be able to see a device on the same network, using bonjour and ssh, but not dlna?
<ali1234> because dlna is a very poorly specified "standard"
<ali1234> it is not unusual that devices can't see each other with it
<brobostigon> thats doesnt answer the question sadly.
<brobostigon> it can see my dlna anables tv.
<ali1234> bonjour is 100% apple. things either work with apple's implementation, or nobody cares
<brobostigon> it works, i can ssh to it, using a bonjour addr.
<ali1234> dlna however is made by a consortium of different companies, one of which is microsoft
<ali1234> as a result, there are a million different interpretations of the spec, all subtly incompatible with each other
<ali1234> dlna is also known as upnp
<ali1234> it is somewhat like microsoft's other networking standard: samba/cifs/whatever you call it
<brobostigon> i knew all this, it still doesnt answer my question, or bode a path to a solution.
<ali1234> in that half the time half your computers can't see the other half for no paticular reason
<directhex> brobostigon, how are you attempting to "see" the device with dlna?
<ali1234> well, okay, to start with, which two dlna devices are you trying to make communicate?
<brobostigon> directhex: using various android playback apps, to listen to downloaded eps of hitchhikers.
<directhex> brobostigon, and which dlna server are you running?
<brobostigon> directhex: minidlna on debian testing.
<ali1234> so the best upnp/dnla client for android is skifta. try that one if you haven't
<ali1234> i think that's what it's called, let me check
<ali1234> yeah that's it
<ali1234> if that doesn't work you should try a different server. rigel is supposed to be the most compatible
<brobostigon> i just dont know how to troubleshoot it, as it has worked upto this point, so i dont know where to proceed from.
<ali1234> so it worked before?
<brobostigon> yes.
<ali1234> well, that's different then
<brobostigon> hence i dont know how to troubleshoot it, as to why it is not working,
<brobostigon> hence me asking what i did.
<directhex> have you tried turning it off and on again?
<ali1234> did you update anything?
<brobostigon> directhex: devide or sw or both?
<brobostigon> device*
<ali1234> there are actually three pieces of software involved with playing media from a upnp media server
<ali1234> the server itself, the media player, and the media controller
<ali1234> the controller finds the server using broadcast addresses, then it gets the media listings and sends one to the media player, which streams it on http using a normal connection
<ali1234> step one is probably tcpdump on the server and see if there is multicast activity
<brobostigon> ie, mdns ?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> upnp discovery packets
<ali1234> look for udp port 1900
<ali1234> on "weird" IP addresses
<ali1234> 239.*.*.* i think
<brobostigon> ok, i shall have to work out how to filter to just that port.
<ali1234> tcpdump -n -i eth0 udp port 1900
<ali1234> when i start skifta on my android ablet i see a bunch of traffic on that on my desktop, but i don't have any upnp servers at the moment
<ali1234> although i do see my router advertising it's port forwarding in response
<ali1234> add "-A" to see contents of the packets
<brobostigon> yep. shows loads of entries, from my android device when i fire up said sw.
<ali1234> do you see a response from miniupnp?
<ali1234> you *should* do...
<lazarus_> i've been looking to optimise some code that i put together since i know there are like 100 ways to write shell scripts http://pastebin.com/1wsBDd8d
<ali1234> use rsync
<ali1234> !rsync
<lubotu3> rsync is a fast remote file copy and synchronization program - For more see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-20
<Zanehood_> Can I please ask for some help
<Zanehood_> Is anyone available?
<Zane> Hey I can only boot my ubuntu laptop up with running generic mode
<Zane> any idea as to why?
<Zane> if i let it run normally the screen gets static all over the screen once i log on and i can not see anythingf
<mapps> morning
<popey> http://www.jonobacon.org/2014/05/19/goodbye-canonical-hello-xprize/
<MartijnVdS> end of an era
<popey> ya
<nigelb> wow.
<ali1234> popey for new community manager?
<MartijnVdS> he doesn't say 'community' nearly enough
<popey> Yeah, I don't have that skill on my CV
<MartijnVdS> popey: can you say "community?
<MartijnVdS> "
<nigelb> popey: Did Ahmed leave Canonical or is he working on something else?
<popey> he left years ago
<popey> he wasn't at the company long
<nigelb> ahh
<nigelb> and jcastro, I guess is doing Juju stuff?
<jussi> ACHMED...Silence... err, wait, thats something else :P
<jussi> actually, I could so see that...
<popey> yeah, jorge is rocking juju
<nigelb> :)
<jussi> Im calling Mark, to put in my recommendation for popey to be new community manager
<nigelb> he'll shut everything down! (sorry popey :P)
<jussi> alternately we could have AlanBell as community manager, and everything would have a hencam theme :P
<SuperMatt> I'll do it
<jussi> SuperMatt: what would your "signature" be? :D
<SuperMatt> how do you mean?
<SuperMatt> do I have to have hen webcams?
<jussi> SuperMatt: no, you need to have $your_thing
<jussi> or else you are boring!
<SuperMatt> I dance a lot
<SuperMatt> is that enough?
<jussi> SuperMatt... the dancing community manager! :D
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> jussi: I'm not going to be dancing around for the enjoyment of the community
<jussi> SuperMatt: you just lost the job...
<jussi> :P
<SuperMatt> nooooooo
<TwistedLucidity> jussi: Ooh, I'd love to see the changelog expressed an interpretive dance.
<TwistedLucidity> Aaaaaaand DuckDuckGo re-skinned themselves to look like Windows 8. :-(
<TwistedLucidity> Just like KDE
<TwistedLucidity> :-((
<jussi> yay, yesterday's pizza for lunch
<jussi> TwistedLucidity: that could be fun...
<jussi> a very different changelog
<TwistedLucidity> Pet Peeve #6984: Software that won't work unless the keyboard and regional settings are US English.
<TwistedLucidity> Pet Peeve #6985: Server software that requires the server to run X in order to go through installations.
<MartijnVdS> .. Oracle?
<TwistedLucidity> Close, but not the one I was thinking of
<TwistedLucidity> Pet Peeve #1432: Software which requires authentication/licensing before it can be used for more than a trial period (despite us being partners with the vendor)
<TwistedLucidity> Pet Peeve #1433: People who consistently forget #1432 when creating VMs and then wonder why things don't work a year later.
<MartijnVdS> they're like the Rules of Acquisition
<MartijnVdS> but for sysadmins
<awilkins> #1434: Software that requires online authentication with a limited number of activations per license, but no sunset date on those activations. Chance of hitting the activation limit for a given user after years of Windows reinstalls = ~ 100%
<MartijnVdS> DRM F yeah!
<awilkins> #1435: When a third party buys the company who controls the activation server for your software but doesn't carry over the accounts from their support system so you have to navigate the maze of support yet again.
<MartijnVdS> at least we don't have dongles anymore.. right?
<awilkins> #1436: When you have to develop against the API for a piece of software but they've run an obfuscator over most of it so you are confronted with things like Class A with method b()
<awilkins> You might think all three of those apply to the same piece of software, I couldn't possibly comment.
<awilkins> People still do dongles
<jussi> yeah, ive seen those. CAD software is really bad for dongles
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: at least they're not parallel-port ones anymore I hope?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, You can still <get> them : http://www.keylok.com/products
<awilkins> The "Fortress" model sounds like the only one worth using
<awilkins> It's the one that runs application code on a secure processor in the dongle
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: #1436 should be a non-issue, the API docs should suffice. LOL! I crak me up sometimes....
<selinuxium> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<Myrtti> â¥  https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/14042214478/  â¥
<DJones> Myrtti: Do you have arthritis in your hands & fingers? My wife & her mum do something similar either crochet or knitting and stitch them together to make baby blankets, they've done so much of it their fingers & hands are knackered
<Myrtti> DJones: I don't do that much crochet, and I knit Continental style. continental is quicker and easier on hands than the english method
<Myrtti> someone even recommended it to people with arthritis, but I don't know if it really is better, but I assume it is
<DJones> I'll have to suggest that to them
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuRLFl36tDY
<DJones> Knowing how long they spend making squares, i'm impressed with number you've done
<DJones> More so if you've spun the the wool as well
<Myrtti> granny squares are so easy to make it took me about three nights to do those
<Myrtti> had to order more wool though, I can't finish these with the yarn I've got
<DJones> Sheesh, thats quick
<Myrtti> the purling is taught totally weirdly on that video
<diplo> I've written a backup script in python, works fairly well.. mounts a usb drive, copies files from src to dest in <day>/srcdir/files etc
<diplo> Always has run as root
<diplo> I've been asked to be able to manually run it
<diplo> as a standard user
<diplo> Thus I'm guessing using sudoers to allow them to do things
<diplo> Set NOPASSWD should stop prompt of password if my script does sudo python  path/to/script
<diplo> ?
<diplo> I've never played with sudo and it seems straight forward but still getting prompted for password
<Myrtti> that sounds like a road to hell, is it for personal/family use or something more nefarious?
<diplo> Work, very old systems
<diplo> Basically want to backup cisam db to usb drive before running updates
<diplo> Customer wants to back up himself to save calling
<diplo> Open to any other ways of doing it :)
<awilkins> setuid
<awilkins> But very evil
<awilkins> But less evil that sudo with no passwd
<Myrtti> indeed
<awilkins> Hang on, c-isam DB?
<awilkins> Does the DB process have access? Is it root?
<Myrtti> I tried to make a video of how fast I crochet but I couldn't keep the camera steady enough under my chin :-(
<diplo> cisam db, but it needs to be run as a user awilkins
<diplo> Basically need to mount a usb drive and create/delete directories
<awilkins> Does the DB have a "dump" utility or are you backing up the raw storage files?
<awilkins> Or are the elevated permissions more about mounting a USB drive than accessing the data?
<diplo> Raw storage files
<diplo> Yeah it's about mounting/creating dirs/ deleting dirs
<diplo> And no dump util, very old version.. all we do is install drivers and thats it
<awilkins> So.. should be able to stick the volume you are mounting to into /etc/fstab with option noauto
<diplo> I have debated doing that, but the only downside is the customer has 6 seperate drives so I guess I'd just have to stick all five UUID's in
<awilkins> no FUSE for this system?
<diplo> yeah should have thought so, am I overthinking stuff ? :)
<awilkins> Dunno, I have root on everything I use so I just use sudo :-)
<diplo> I do normally, my colleages have implemented this all over ( I don't think it has worked on any site and they haven't checked I'm guessing )
<diplo> As the script runs as root normally they just expected it to work, I looked at one of the sites this morning and asked how do you expect this to work
<awilkins> Any backup is only as successful as your last restore
<diplo> "Dunno, just thought it would"
<diplo> awilkins, exactly what I've been trying to say to them
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MartijnVdS>  \o
<MooDoo> Just read about Jono....wow ace move
<MooDoo> wonder if they will have another UCM?
<DJones> I nominate MooDoo a UCM
<DJones> Or maybe cz[Tab]
<MooDoo> DJones: don't be silly :)
<MooDoo> DJones: now jono has left, I've installed fedora ;) lol
<DJones> Heh
 * davmor2 slaps MooDoo till he reinstalls Ubuntu that or windows as he knows that is really MooDoo 's favourite distro
<awilkins> Whoa, http://www.muktware.com/2014/02/valve-offers-free-games-ubuntu-developers/20827 : (found that in the hops away from the Jono Bacon article)
<awilkins> Wonder if a couple of patches in Bazaar counts :-P
<awilkins>  Bah, "people who can upload to Ubuntu central archive"
<MooDoo> davmor2: sir, don't be silly DOS is my fave distro :p
<awilkins> CP/M is my favourite distro!
<awilkins> The Epson PX-8 is my favourite laptop that runs my favourite distro
<ali1234> question: if a colo company goes bust with my hardware, what can i do?
<awilkins> Take it back? Not like they own it, they are just renting it a rack
<ali1234> how?
<awilkins> I presume you could send someone round to collect it
<awilkins> Or go around yourself
<awilkins> Baliff?
<ali1234> yeah so i go to the datacenter and say "hi, i'm a customer of this hosting provider that no longer exists. please let me in to collect my stuff"?
<awilkins> You can't be the only person to be doing it
<ali1234> we don't even know what data center it is in
<ali1234> the company has completely cut off all contact
<awilkins> That makes things somewhat more awkward
<awilkins> This a UK company?
<ali1234> yes
<awilkins> So they hold data on where your hardware is located, so under the data protection act you are entitled to know that stuff
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Contact the receivers
<ali1234> here's the twist: they went bankrupt 2 years ago
<ali1234> the server was sitting in the data center for 2 years
<ali1234> the first we found out about it was a week ago when it went offline
<Myrtti> wow
<Myrtti> that's harsh
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... htop gave me an "uptime" of just under 4 days. considering I turned the pooter off last night that might just make me more of Dr. Who than Dr. Who.
<SuperEngineer> [following a full bleachbit & restart - it is now accurate....  double hmmmm
<awilkins> Maybe the CMOS clock was empty
<awilkins> Or slow
<SuperEngineer> awilkins: so sys time is correct but it got lazz overnight?  darn! remid me to put more petrol in it next time ;)
<SuperEngineer> lazz=lazy
<dvrr> how to configure ldap+samba windows client centos 6.x   please help me
<daftykins> we don't support CentOS.
<daftykins> the clue's in the topic and channel name
<dvrr> in ubuntu 12.10  please guide me
<daftykins> 12.10 is EOL
<daftykins> !eol
<lubotu3> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<diddledan_> bbl
<dvrr> i updated all packages
<dvrr> daftykins:
<daftykins> dvrr: 12.10 is EOL, you'll need to be running 12.04.4, 13.10 or 14.04
<TwistedLucidity> dvvr: "sudo apt-get do-release-upgrade" and get on to 13.10 or 14.04
<TwistedLucidity> Then worry about ldap+samba
<TwistedLucidity> If this is a server, I don't think the "official" server version (14.04.1) is out yet.
<TwistedLucidity> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
<daftykins> 14.04 server is still server, .1 is just the first release update
<daftykins> that's just the point when LTS -> LTS upgrade becomes available
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, that's what I meant
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Thanks for making it clear
<daftykins> np :)
<dvrr> thank you very much given support i will do now
<Myrtti> awwwww kittens
<Myrtti> http://new.livestream.com/tinykittens/dancing
<daftykins> zomg
<daftykins> omw, a minimal 14.04 install uses 933MB disk space
<daftykins> what's going on with that?!
<daftykins> Myrtti: heh mama kitty's face when one of them started climbing over her
<daftykins> "WAT!"
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> diddledan: o/
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mns8dwhrj0w6e3g/IMG_20140520_183905.jpg
<diddledan> yummy
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> that tiny kittens is compulsive
<MartijnVdS> hey man thanks for defining the word âmanyâ for me. it means a lot
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: hmm? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: read it again
<MartijnVdS> slowly
<daftykins> nope, drawing a blank
<MartijnVdS> what does 'many' mean?
<daftykins> more than one
<MartijnVdS> or.. "a lot"
<daftykins> yeah still fails with me out of context as it is :(
<MartijnVdS> it's a joke, there is no context?
<diddledan> I think it's self-contained
<diddledan> it means a lot vs it means "a lot"
<daftykins> diddledan: you need to weigh-in in #ubuntu, there are guys talking about gentoo being great for servers ;)
<diddledan> ooh
<daftykins> well they actually stopped thankfully
<MartijnVdS> weirdos
<daftykins> as it's off topic
<diddledan> aww I misseded it
<ali1234> yeah so apparently this server is now co-located in the cloud :(
<diddledan> ali1234, :-(
<MartijnVdS> so.. it went to heaven?
<diddledan> ali1234, do you at least have any backups?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: exactly
<ali1234> diddledan: it was a google mini, there's nothing to back up, it just indexes another server
<diddledan> totally sucks that the colo co didn't even tell you they were shutting shop
<ali1234> well they didn't have to
<ali1234> see, the thing is...
<ali1234> there's the web dev company, the colo company, and the data center
<ali1234> the web devs had a contract to host the mini at the data center
<ali1234> the web devs knew that the colo company was shutting down but didn't do anything
<diddledan> >.<
<ali1234> so apparently last week the datacenter did some kind of audit and found a server that nobody was paying for
<ali1234> and then disconnected it
<ali1234> but we don't even know which datacenter is it in
<daftykins> damn
<directhex> IP?
<ali1234> directhex: pm'd
<directhex> alentus?
<ali1234> right, that's the colo company which seems to no longer be trading
<directhex> hm, they have(had?) 8 different colo sites
<directhex> more than
<ali1234> the IP is now pointing at a different server, which is really weird
<ali1234> and the UK subsidiary appears to have done a runner and is now just an unmaintained website and a telephone answering service that goes nowhere
<shauno> so we can expect to find a cheap google mini on ebay?
<ali1234> probably
<daftykins> ooh my
<daftykins> i could buy 8GB DDR3 1600, a haswell i3-4130 and an Asus H81-M motherboard for Â£142.48
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lVH3ogPE0w
<lazarus_> what is the correct way to use zenity --progress because i dont think im doing it right unless you assign the % values manually which isnt accurate
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-21
<mapps> morning
<mapps> new fargo ep..yay
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you mapps
<mapps> not bad mate,you?
<mapps> just paid for my flights to cz:D
<MooDoo> yeah I'm ok, what you going there for?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<mapps> going to see my friend in Nymburk again
<mapps> went to prague last year..and travelled to nymburk 2 days to see him
<MooDoo> mapps: fab :)
<mapps> this time going to stay in Nymburk..30mins outsude prague :D
<mapps> MooDoo
<mapps> you see latest 24?
<mapps> what a good ep:)
<MooDoo> mapps: no just seen ep 3 / 4 yes
<mapps> ah
<mapps> 4 was good:)
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> Lizvyvyan@richborne.co.uk   on Microsoft Outlook,
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa damn right click
<locodir-user> Hi everybody, please help me erasing files from trash. I moved to trash 17gb to save space then I pressed restore and now I can't erase everything :(
<MartijnVdS> Restore? That moves the files back *out* of the trash
<Adriannom> lo. my machine is moving like a snail and 50% of 8gb of ram is used by cache, 45% by programs, cpu usage is low. is ubuntu badly managing the ram or something? is there a way to make it better?
<Adriannom> 55% / 45% rather
<Adriannom> when my ram usage drops below 100% everything runs faster
<locodir-user> yes Martijnvds so what do u suggest me to do?
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: no, lots of cache is good
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: it's not swapping is it?
<MartijnVdS> locodir-user: I have no idea.. delete the files again?
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, how can i tell?
<locodir-user> yes but is telling me error :(
<locodir-user> There was an error deleting
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, i mean, if 100% ram usage is a good thing and if there's no alternative then i can only assume that it is. however it goes on for ages and really disrupts my work, gotta wait sometimes 10 seconds or more for each click or whatever to take effect :/
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: you can count the "cached" bit as "free" RAM in  Linux
<Adriannom> yup, i get what you're saying there
<Adriannom> i mean i guess there's no alternative, it must be swapping
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: it's only used as a disk cache, so the OS doesn't have to re-read things from disk all the time (RAM is *way* faster)
<Adriannom> i trust you ;)
<MartijnVdS> it can't be swapping a lot if 50% is disk cache
<Adriannom> and it makes sense
<MartijnVdS> "free" shows you how much swap is used
<Adriannom> ok
<Adriannom> actually i can see 25% swap space is in use on the system monitor
<Adriannom> but it's not sluggish now so :/
<MartijnVdS> something might have used a lot of space earlier
<MartijnVdS> lot of memory, even
<MartijnVdS> so everything else was put into swap
<MartijnVdS> now the offender might be gone
<Adriannom> right
<MartijnVdS> but everything is still in swap
<Adriannom> thing is
<MartijnVdS> using it will get it out
<Adriannom> i looked at the processes straight away and there was nothing big there
<MartijnVdS> you can check the likely offender by running 'top' and pressing 'M' (capital M) to sort by memory use
<Adriannom> but i suppose it might have gone already by that point
<Adriannom> i suppose i had to look at the processes BEFORE the sluggishenss?
<Adriannom> ok
<Adriannom> yeah there is/was nothing since the time the machine started choking
<MartijnVdS> check the kernel log, if the "out of memory" killer killed it, it;s in there
<Adriannom> nothing in there about memory/ram/cache/swap
<Adriannom> interestingly i see periodic nfs server not responding messages
<popey> Afternoon.
<Adriannom> lo
<Myrtti> :-| I want licorice ice cream
<DJones> If you've got an ebay account, you may want to change your password http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27503290
<MooDoo> Afternoon all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Exciting day, eh?
<locodir-user> so ubuntu cannot erase my files from trash
<davmor2> locodir-user: what does it say
<MooDoo> davmor2: what does who say?  the fox? ;)
<davmor2> we all know what the fox says
<MooDoo> lol
<locodir-user> There was an error deleting
<TwistedLucidity> Not...helpful...umm, tried checking in /var/log/syslog?
<MartijnVdS> have you tried doing it by hand?
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/05/ebay-password-database-hacked-users-asked-to-change-passwords/
<daftykins> change your ebay and paypal passes
<daftykins> =|
<MartijnVdS> great
<MartijnVdS> they don't allow copy/pasting in a new password
<MartijnVdS> AGHGH
<daftykins> you lazy git :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I'm not re-typing a 32-character random password.
<MartijnVdS> twice.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> do you use password managers?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes, but paypal somehow work around it
<MartijnVdS> (actually, using 'pass' + a gnupg key from the command line, so I always copy/paste)
<daftykins> oh it was more an aside query
<awilkins> Ugh, our servers at work are configured like that
<awilkins> just provokes swearing when you have to type a gobbledegook password
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> blast from the past: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g5h01jwuvs8dk63/lappy2.JPG
<Azelphur> who needs a keyboard :P
<shauno> why do places stop you pasting passwords?
<shauno> especially since they're almost all using jquery now, you can just $('input').unbind()
<daftykins> Azelphur: damn straight! there was a pic beside it assembled, but i shared that once before :>
<Azelphur> shauno: yea it's annoying, I always just inspect element and disable the "feature"
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i just... deal with it
<daftykins> do any of you have a good rsync template script you could share? :)
<shauno> I thought I did, and then it ate my apache config
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> that's nasty
<daftykins> i'm beyond amateurish with the way i have backup implemented for clients
<daftykins> might just ask a mate if he'd like to sub for me to have an overhaul :D
<daftykins> as these are Windows users
<shauno> if you google time machine + rsync, you'll find a lot of people who have put rsync to work mimmicing time machine's behaviour with incremental backups & hardlinks
<daftykins> that'd be for *nix though right?
<shauno> as long as the destination is *nix, I'm not sure it'd matter.  but just figured it might send you in the direction of whole-backup scripts
<daftykins> true, that
<daftykins> i mostly have Synology NASs in for people really
<daftykins> i wonder if i should push people to do some cloud backup too to prevent these in-house NASs being a bit disingenuous
<shauno> I was actually pondering the other day, how well rsync would handle copying an entire device
<daftykins> plus NASs are online and could be encrypted by those malware nasties =/
<daftykins> hehe
<mapps> hewwo
<daftykins> hey mapps what's new?
<mapps> nothing much
<mapps> still the same awful net :D
<daftykins> did you catch my major server overhaul pics?
<mapps> nie
<mapps> lets see
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/skrzdfi8q9rokxb/AADVgOITYFmr_8HPIXH2THT-a
<mapps> nice
<daftykins> old array's unplugged now \o/
<daftykins> i really hate macs. creating .DS_Store files all over my network drives >_<
<daftykins> though i did once hear it's an option to disable ;D
<shauno> yeah.  http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1629
<daftykins> not exactly what you want to do in a hurry though :>
<cbx33> oh hai popey
<popey> cbx33: yo
<cbx33> popey, how the heck are ya dude?
<popey> Great thanks, hows you?
<cbx33> yeh pretty good
<cbx33> just thought I'd pop in and say hey
<davmor2> popey: are you allowed up this late
<davmor2> popey: phone should have wifi, contacts, and a gallery app that works  with tomorrows updates
<popey> yay
<diddledan> random. just changed my ebay password as advised. the confirm email lists two IP addresses, called "IP Address" and "ISP Host" - the second one appears to be a private address, so I'm confused as to what it's referring
<daftykins> i took it to mean a gateway IP in my ISP
<diddledan> so how do ebay know what the internal IP my ISP uses for it's gateway?
<diddledan> 10.91.112.66
<diddledan> that's the IP it lists
<diddledan> 10.x.x.x is private unroutable
<daftykins> i think i deleted my similar email already
<daftykins> yeah i had a 10. listed too
<shauno> mine was ISP host: 10.91.112.70
<shauno> perhaps they mean that's what server took the connection on their side?
<shauno> eg, if they need moar logs, that's where they'll be
<daftykins> nice one paypal
<daftykins> your "send me a text to verify i'm me" doesn't accept Guernsey mobile numbers
<diddledan> grr
<Azelphur> daftykins: I had one from them once, went something like "Payment for null from bank account ending in null failed because null"
<shauno> what a coincidence - null is my postcode!
<daftykins> Azelphur: :D magic
<diddledan> good ol' bobby tables?
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> diddledan: in the voice of Nibbler from Futurama, "None... other..."
<shauno> barely related, but one that always gripes me .. ryanair demand a postcode.  they're an irish company, they should know ireland doesn't have them.
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> so you have to fudge it with a fake?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> I normally put it as 'eire', because it actually looks semi-literate when it's printed
<shauno> but I get a lot of mail for 'null' and 'default'
<shauno> I think 'default' is anything that gets my address from paypal
<daftykins> something you might find amusing is Apple don't actually accept Guernsey people as customers for the iTunes store and what not
<daftykins> it forces you to put in a UK postcode to function =|
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-22
<daftykins> not a problem for me, but it's made my problem as i have to deal with peoples Apple toys occasionally
<directhe`> time for dinner
<shauno> but you're not in the UK?
<daftykins> shauno: correct
<daftykins> we have our own postcodes but it rejects them
<shauno> so the actual issue is that itms isn't available in your country :p
<shauno> curious, will amazon ship you writable media?
<daftykins> 'itms' ?
<shauno> itunes music store
<daftykins> well sort of, bit rude to neglect us
<daftykins> yeah, app store stuff too
<directhe`> moop
<daftykins> a wild directHE!
<directhe`> DINNERFOOD!
<daftykins> oh my, i just twigged
<daftykins> perhaps they wanted a space where i put none
<daftykins> or didn't want one where i put one
<daftykins> lets see before i submit this help email...
<daftykins> ugh can't find where to manually do it now
<daftykins> oh i screenshotted
<daftykins> ok, i think it was a pinkware problem
<daftykins> FALSE ALARM
<shauno> now what are we supposed to do with all these pitchforks?
<daftykins> save them for Apple
<Azelphur> Hmm, I'm playing with init scripts, in /etc/init.d/skeleton, in the stop function, why are there two start-stop-daemon calls, both of them --stop?
<Azelphur> the second one seems to hang for me, which is why I ask
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> morning sir
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> morning
<Myrtti> don't forget to vote!
<MooDoo> howdy Myrtti
<daftykins> there's a vote on? :)
<MooDoo> No pirate party where i live....booooo :D
<MooDoo> daftykins: european elections
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> i'm not in the EU
<daftykins> :)
<MooDoo> where are you?
<Myrtti> MooDoo: euvox.eu
<Myrtti> still :-)
<daftykins> Guernsey!
<mapps> hey guys
<daftykins> hi mapps
<MooDoo> thanks Myrtti
<mapps> sup mate
<daftykins> mmm not much going on here
<daftykins> got the cat asleep on my lap
<mapps> haha
<mapps> why u up so early!
<daftykins> i am simply more broken than usual, today!
<mapps> not slept?:P
<daftykins> correct!
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/J5EUMZh.jpg
<daftykins> have an elephant joke
<mapps> go ahead;]
<mapps> get paid friday
<mapps> and i havent blown all last months
<mapps> wooo
<mapps> although it was bonus month;p
<daftykins> bonus month in April 0o
<mapps> well
<mapps> we get it in 2 payments end of march..end of financial year
<mapps> and september
<mapps> 38% of my salary this year:D
<MooDoo> nice
<MooDoo> 28th is payday for me.
<MooDoo> I'll go vote at 4 this afternoon when I get home
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 how goes it.
<davmor2> Good ta chaos but good \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: you?
<daftykins> hmm good chaos
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah good thanks, roll on weekend off to bakewell
<mapps> meow
<mapps> bakewell?
<daftykins> is that intel's next processor range?
<mapps> i was thinking of the food
<daftykins> i can always go for a bakewell
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> yeah, i was trying for a joke
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> mapps: it's the home of the bakewell pudding :D
<mapps> :D
<mapps> absolutely bucketing down ere
<mapps> same for y'all?
<MooDoo> yeah here too
<mapps> u watch the americans MooDoo?
<mapps> finale was last night
<MooDoo> mapps: no
<mapps> :(
<popey> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning alan
<davmor2> MooDoo: tart
<davmor2> in bakewell
<popey> had excellent curry last night
<davmor2> popey: oh that sounds nice where was that at?
<popey> lemme find it on google maps
<popey> oh, no streetview here
<popey> basically out the hotel turn left past the swimming pool over the road, along about 500 yards
<popey> Arabic & Indian restaurant
<MooDoo> I gave my dad some chilli sauce to spice up his curry, it was naga based lol oh how i laughed when he tried it
<popey> basically the whole place was canonical people
<popey> at one point there were about 16 of us in there
<daftykins> D:
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: my father had his first taste of naga based sauce for tea last night, once he'd recovered he punched me :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha. Nice one MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahahahaha
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: and i thought it was quite mild lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: that'll teach you to tell him it was a mild curry paste :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: ooops my bad
<MooDoo> was nice though :)
<daftykins> at least have a glass of milk on hand in future ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hope everyone who can is going to vote today. I have already.
<daftykins> Voteman will get you otherwise!
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: doing it at 4pm no pirate party where i am though :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone running 14.04 and not yet done the update for this morning?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I noticed getting something called the "Ubuntu Web Broswer" which I'm not sure I ever installed before. Looks like it is the converged browser to run on phones etc, but is a bit of a pig to use with a mouse :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> commandline is # webbrowser-app
<TheOpenSourcerer> to start it
<diplo> Yep, on mines as well TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> it's part of the mobile stuff I guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Was it there before today's update? I never recalled seeing it before...
<diplo> Can't say I've seen it before, but guess I've not been looking that hard either
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<hoover> Morning folks
<MooDoo> howdy hoover
<hoover> Any known problems with 14.04 losing keyboard focus / input methods when the screen is locked for some time?
<hoover> std unity desktop btw
<Laney> i'm supposed to hate the look of new spotify aren't i?
<Laney> unfortunately i actually like it
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<xnox> VOTE FOR LIBDEMS =)
 * xnox goes to vote
<brobostigon> lol.
<Laney> I already voted
<Laney> they thought it was weird that I took my cup of tea with me
<bashrc_> morning
<brobostigon> i am going just after lunch.
 * TheOpenSourcerer voted at 07:00am. Was expecting to be first in line at 06:57 but was 2nd :-(
<brobostigon> :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apologies for the unnecessary "am" there.
<bashrc> vote early and often
 * awilkins will probably vote Green
<awilkins> Having read the manifestos I agree more with them than other parties
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I go to work at 7, but they only opened the polling place at 7:30. So I'll go vote after work.
<awilkins> They just need to fix their silly retrogressive policy on nuclear energy
<TheOpenSourcerer> It doesn't really matter who you vote for*. Just as long you vote.
<TheOpenSourcerer> * Apart from the mad UKIP and ultra-right parties of course...
<awilkins> The Green party should enthusiastically support the development of fusion
<bashrc> I don't know if there is any fusion research being done in the uk
<TheOpenSourcerer> IMHO We should invest the 50Bn they are planning to spend on that railway line into Fusion research instead.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes there is bashrc
<TheOpenSourcerer> JET
<Laney> scrap HS2, spend money developing fusion
<awilkins> Yeah, we sponsor JET
<Laney> oh hey, snap
<TheOpenSourcerer> One of the pioneering Fusion research centres.
<bashrc> fusion has been the great hope for a long time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Culham Labs nr. Didcot/Oxford
<TheOpenSourcerer> JET = Joint European Torus
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_European_Torus
<awilkins> We need to  spread the wealth
<awilkins> Sponsor lots of projects, not just pour money into tokamaks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Agreed. 50bn would go a *very* long way.
<awilkins> Yeah, you could start 50 independent fusion foundations each charged to find and support a different project.
<bashrc> http://www.ccfe.ac.uk/MAST.aspx
<awilkins> Should be the Manhattan project of this age
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: does that mean they'll only develop it if there's a war on?
<awilkins> I sponsored these guys because I liked their Google talk a while back : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/focus-fusion-empowertheworld--3
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, There will be a war of one kind or another over resources
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, You could claim that the initial moves are already being made what with the Russian gas thing
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: true
<awilkins> And the middle east wars of the USA (which some suspect were done for purely economic reasons - to discourage trading of oil in Euro)
<xnox> Laney: maybe it wasn't cup of tea they weired out about. But the fluffy slippers & dressing gown?! =))))))
<Laney> :P
<xnox> Well most of British nuclear power comes from.... EDF and their french power plants =)
<xnox> italians, german and australians are strange to be so against it....
<awilkins> The problem is all these antiquated PWRs
<xnox> PWRs?!
<awilkins> And people wanting to build more of them because they are "proven technology!!"
<awilkins> Pressurised Water Reactor
<xnox> ack.
<bigcalm> syn
<awilkins> Governments *really* want to build more of them because they make plutonium
<awilkins> But more modern reactor designs have fewer headaches
<bashrc> the pressurised water reactors detonate if they lose cooling.  That seems like a design flaw to me
<TwistedLucidity> In that case, vote Green today; they're anti-nuke.
<Myrtti> â¥ noodles â¥ I've finally found my favourite noodles, been going through the inventory of the Central Oriental supermarkets but no more
<Myrtti> Indo Mie's Mi Goreng Satay noodles â¥
<cocoa117> how do you make public_key authendication possible when you going through hoops of machines. E.g. server1 should only use firewall's public key to login, even when user connect it through hoops of firewall
<cocoa117> at the moment, it seems the ssh always asking for local machine's private key to authedicates
<awilkins> cocoa117, Allow agent forwarding
<cocoa117> awilkins, on which machine? from the local machine?
<awilkins> cocoa117, Also, note that if you are using a screen multiplexer to keep sessions alive on these machines, disconnecting and reconnecting usually breaks that agent forwarding (for me, at least)
<cocoa117> awilkins, so u mena tmux as multiplexer?
<awilkins> cocoa117, add ForwardAgent yes to your ~/.ssh/config file (on a per-host basis if you are security minded)
<cocoa117> awilkins, ok, i will give that a try, hold on
<awilkins> cocoa117, I use byobu with tmux or screen usually
<cocoa117> awilkins, i enabled on config file for both machine, the final server and firewall, it still showing permission denied (publickey) issue
<awilkins> So it's enabled on your local client, and you established a brand new session to the first machine in the chain?
<cocoa117> awilkins, i did have ControlPersist yes setup, should i close that one and try again
<awilkins> Yeah, AFAIK it sets an environment variable for your agent when you first connect
<awilkins> So existing terms will have no variable / old variable when you reconnect
<awilkins> Which is why it breaks across sessions
<cocoa117> awilkins, still not working. by enabling debug, i can still see following
<cocoa117> ffering RSA public key: /root/.ssh/id_rsa
<cocoa117> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey
<cocoa117> debug1: Trying private key: /root/.ssh/id_dsa
<cocoa117> debug1: No more authentication methods to try.
<cocoa117> Permission denied (publickey).
<cocoa117> awilkins, i am guessing it still trying using my local key to authendicate
<awilkins> It's trying roots keys
<cocoa117> awilkins, by the way, i am using ProxyCommand ssh firewall nc %h %p 2> /dev/null
<awilkins> And yes, local ones
<awilkins> No idea what ProxyCommand does
<awilkins> Are the keys you want on the servers?
<cocoa117> awilkins, on config file for which host should i set the ForwardAgent yes? should it both firewall and final destination server?
<cocoa117> awilkins, yes, i can issue manual ssh server1 on firewall to login right way without asking password
<awilkins> Is the key you want actually in root's home folder?
<awilkins> Maybe this article will help :http://blog.lyte.id.au/2012/03/19/ssh-agent-forwarding-is-a-bug/
<awilkins> Or is that what you got it from :-)
<bashrc> voted in the EU elections
<marcushaslam> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g2uhnen63lkhl43b5e5znxxjcqa
<exobuzz> popey, still got your Joggler ?
<popey> exobuzz: sadly not
<exobuzz> bah :)
<exobuzz> did you sell it and get all your money back ?
<popey> yeah
<exobuzz> they still sell for only Â£10 less than original price :) Â£10 for a joggler for 3+ uyears is good value.
<exobuzz> popey, i shoehorned xubuntu 14.04 onto them. it's a little ugly, in that its an ancient xserver (due to driver), and some sticky tape. latest xbmc works though
<popey> exobuzz: i saw your post, nice one.
<exobuzz> good to know my spam is still getting through ;-)
<popey> â»
<diddledan> we all know what a "brazillian" is, so what's a "brazillian blow dry"?
<diddledan> (as advertised at me by groupon)
<mapps> and it starts again few hours no rain..pourin down now;/
<popey> \o/ bright and sunny here
<daftykins> rain down here
<daftykins> storm predictions
<daftykins> i love a good storm
<brobostigon> rain here also.
<brobostigon> unfortunatly, the rain might inhibit me from going to my local for quiz tonight.
<popey> do you not own a coat?
<popey> or indeed an umbrella
<brobostigon> several of both,
<directhex> The Witcher 2 lands on steam/linux
<awilkins> Whoa
<awilkins> Wonder if it runs better than on Windows?
<mapps> brobostigon taxi?:D
<mapps> its absolutely heaving down here..but il probably still go out later just means getting a taxi
<brobostigon> mapps: not likely, it isnt very far, maybe 15 minutes walk,
<mapps> yea thats all it is to the casino (assuming i go)
<mapps> but 15mins in rain == very soaked
<brobostigon> depends how heavy, yes.
<daftykins> there's something really satisfying about re-doing laptop cooling solutions
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nb7rbkq7qasuh4r/IMG_20140522_173609.jpg
<daftykins> before
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nb97r3ebo4tk2hz/IMG_20140522_174656.jpg
<daftykins> and after ^_^
<Myrtti> I used to brush and vacuum my laptop
<Myrtti> not sure if I'm allowed to this one
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: have you tried fluffing and blowing it instead?
<daftykins> i had to double-take that as not being a diddledan line for a moment
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I'm glad I have a reputation
<daftykins> lol
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: I mean I opened it and brushed the dust loose with a fine watercolour brush with a low power vacuum cleaner in the other hand
<diddledan> said the actress to the bishop
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... spend the money - get some air duster... & blow it
 * SuperEngineer thinks this channel could soon go off air ;)
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, as long as the blowing isn't of the brazillian variety
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> seriously, I want to know what a brazillian blow dry is
<SuperEngineer> oh ohhhh!"
<SuperEngineer> !google
<lubotu3> While Google is useful for helpers, many newer users don't have the google-fu yet. Please don't tell people to "google it" when they ask a question.
<MooDoo> a combination of formaldehyde and keratin to keep locks straight for up to three months,
<MooDoo> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2488081/As-Jennifer-Aniston-forced-chop-hair-short-experts-warn-Brazilian-blowdry-effects.html#ixzz32StkoUwa
<MooDoo> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
<MooDoo> damn didn't mean to copy all that, but there is your answer diddledan
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it probably forced the attribution into your clipboard sneakily
<MooDoo> oh </sarcasm> damn missed that
<SuperEngineer> ...said the... nah!
<popey> yeah, there are plugins to disable that copy/paste stuff
<MooDoo> yeah sorry about that
<popey> meh
<popey> we have all done it
<popey> worth finding the extensions though :)_
<popey> tynt is one iirc
<ali1234> speaking of really stupid javascript things on websites
<ali1234> gmail now has a right click menu which prevents you from opening an email in a new tab
<ali1234> is there an extension to prevent websites from hijacking the right click menu?
<ali1234> oh even better, there's just a firefox setting for it
<Myrtti> oh wow, it wasn't necessarily an old normal thunderstorm then
<Myrtti> http://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/latest-news/video_gallery_tornadoes_spotted_over_huntingdonshire_1_3612122
<daftykins> haha
<Myrtti> our bbq cover has taken flight and can't find it anywhere :-(
<daftykins> darn why do i always forget the key combo to zap the PRAM
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it's probably somewhere near Scotland by now
<mapps> hm double argh
<mapps> i took an old dell apart a while back..delayed doing anything else
<mapps> cant remember where the svrews are:|
<mapps> and im stuck in a queue on the phone to student finance :(
<daftykins> mapps: D:
<daftykins> mapps: but you've not been a student since forever!
<mapps> ARGH
<mapps> yea daftykins
<mapps> but almost paid it back and have to switch to direct debit so as to not overpay
<mapps> so i phone up to setup an online ac and anyway they send me a link ythat dont wor
<mapps> work
<mapps> fixed after resetting it all again
<mapps> urgh
<Krenair> Needed a basic VM on my laptop to emulate a slow computer, thought I'd stick Ubuntu in there (Ubuntu is also the host if that matters).
<Krenair> I get up to the 'Try Ubuntu or Install Ubuntu' screen, and then stuff breaks. I haven't run into an issue like this while installing Ubuntu before..
<Krenair> It appeared to go back to the 'Ubuntu . . . . .' loading screen thing, and is currently at a blank screen
<directhex> http://imgur.com/a/vshJG?#0
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-23
<dogmatic69> anyone got some ideas for a cheap, reasonably quick linux based thing I can use for a dev web server
<dogmatic69> Looking to replace my blade as its loud and eats electricity like its the 1950's
<Myrtti> http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/05/22/morgan-freeman-on-helium/
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: How do
<MooDoo> davmor2: how are you?
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> I read that Jono Bacon is leaving Canonical
<DJones> This is true
<MooDoo> bashrc: yes indeed, moving to xprize
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon how goes the way?
<MooDoo> war?
<brobostigon> the war is fail.
<cocoa117> when you using ProxyCommand to jump through hoops, you have to have authendication to those hoops machine on your local machine (public key wise), otherwise you can't get on to next one. Is there anyway to allow the machine connect to it authendicate this rather then the local machine initialised the connection?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rl7dk3ex9hvxyt9/IMG_20140523_105358.jpg
<daftykins> new shirt arrived :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Pat went postal? :)
<daftykins> he went Breaking Bad!
<MartijnVdS> Ah yes :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> subtoe enough a reference to enjoy
<MartijnVdS> well, going postal would've worked ;)
<daftykins> heh subtoe, subtle too
<daftykins> ah this macbook is looking a lot healthier now i've cleaned it up a bit
<daftykins> did you catch my nude macbook shots yesterday? :)
<MartijnVdS> I think i saw one yes
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nb7rbkq7qasuh4r/IMG_20140522_173609.jpg
<daftykins> that was the dirty one :>
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpn76t2gzzl1jmc/AAAyeSY2RKOC9QpJygG1qgYla
<daftykins> actually that's the whole series in one
<daftykins> heh
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<daftykins> hallo bigcalm
<daftykins> o/
<MooDoo> hello bigcalm
<trilitheus> Hi there - when loggin into Ubuntu Server, if it needs a reboot it tells you  - does anyone know if this is queryable?  Flag set in a file somewhere?
<diplo> http://serverfault.com/questions/92932/how-does-ubuntu-keep-track-of-the-system-restart-required-flag-in-motd
<diplo> Check for the presence of /var/run/reboot-required
<diplo> Hmm that's 09 actually
<diplo> so maybe old
<trilitheus> diplo - awesome many thanks
<trilitheus> diplo, still valid on 12.04 at least
<diplo> Glad to hear it, Sure I looked at many moons ago
<diplo> And that was probably 12.04
<diddledan> SOLAR FREAKIN' ROADWAYS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU
<diddledan> then of course there's this: http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/05/22/morgan-freeman-on-helium/
<mapps> HEY all
<diddledan> mornin mapps
<diddledan> I really should listen to my answerphone - got 7 messages that I haven't listened to yet
<mapps> hey diddledan :)
<daftykins> diddledan: i'm sure they're nothing major ;)
<mapps> just started watching motive
<daftykins>                     chronometer (750ml bottle)
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufzaiukciewz8jd/IMG_20140523_225655.jpg
<daftykins> clawed through a thin shirt D:
<dogmatic69> is it easy/possible to run vista/win7 etc virtualized on a ubuntu server (headerless)
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> that's an edge-case and a half
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> daftykins: what would be the best way to run virtualised windows on ubuntu?
<daftykins> with your headless caveat?
<dogmatic69> I guess it does not have to be headerless
<daftykins> hang on, when you said headerless that sounds like 'without kernel headers installed' ? :)
<dogmatic69> without a screen in my eyes :D
<dogmatic69> headless...maybe
<daftykins> i don't really understand X stuff enough to know if virtualbox would let you fire something up without somewhere to direct an image to
<daftykins> assuming you can even create a VM and start it under vbox on the command line
<dogmatic69> so generally its a case of running virtualbox?
<shauno> vbox should, that's what Vagrant uses
<dogmatic69> ye. vagrant uses vbox
<daftykins> ah, not familiar with that
<dogmatic69> I would like said windows 'box' to be as if it was just on the network IRL
<daftykins> i guess there's nothing to stop you setting one up on a box with a head, then throwing it over to the one without?
<dogmatic69> so I could from my pc use remmana to access it on the server doing the virtualising stuff if you know what I mean
<daftykins> once it's up and has any necessary RDP access, it should start up happily
<dogmatic69> ubuntu server vs desktop, is it just the GUI difference?
<daftykins> nowadays it is yep
<daftykins> same kernel, afaik
<dogmatic69> ok, I could use desktop then.
<dogmatic69> planning to get a new mini-itx based rackmount job
<daftykins> 0o
<dogmatic69> 32Gb ram, i3/i5, ssd for boot and 4 3TB
<dogmatic69> something like that
<dogmatic69> daftykins: ?
<daftykins> sorry just raising an eyebrow
<daftykins> what's it gonna do? :)
<shauno> the virtualbox package provides /usr/bin/VBoxHeadless and VBoxManage .. it looks like they'll be where you should be looking
<daftykins> and the reason for Windows? :D
<dogmatic69> well work has lame domain server for remote desktop which I cant make work
<dogmatic69> so need windows to remote into work
<dogmatic69> daftykins: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3PwU2
<daftykins> would you not be putting your workplace at risk by hosting such a box out there in the wild? :)
<dogmatic69> in the wild?
<dogmatic69> this is at home
<dogmatic69> so I can access work
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> thought you meant rackmount for in a data centre
<dogmatic69> daftykins: I was looking at this chassis http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111277489673?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
<dogmatic69> nope, got a 24U case in my garage :)
<dogmatic69> got a HP Dl360 + DL380, but too noisy, hence the mini-itx
<shauno> ah, garage makes more sense.  I was about to choke at 1U @ home
<dogmatic69> shauno: I do web-dev from home, hence the servers.
<dogmatic69> got a NAS for storage etc. New pc should replace it all
<shauno> do they have to be server-shaped though?
<dogmatic69> well its out the way like that
<daftykins> cor
<daftykins> what do you run that kind of gear at home for? :)
<shauno> 1U get hellish noisy just because they demand "angry midget" fans.  almost any other form-factor will be much quieter for the same load
<daftykins> i just made up a standard kind of PC in a big coolermaster stacker case
<daftykins> and suck less power, i had a P4 era Xeon that was getting given away by the local power company
<dogmatic69> daftykins: well like I said I do webdev. I got it set up with bind routing all *.dev domains to the webserver so I can access from any device for testing etc.
<daftykins> omw that thing
<dogmatic69> if my actual pc dies it does not matter as it is almost like a dumb terminal
<dogmatic69> just have browser, ide etc
<dogmatic69> daftykins: the DL360's suck power too, Â£60 pm each :/
<dogmatic69> the itx should be closer to Â£10/15 pm
<daftykins> :O do you know in watts?
<daftykins> mine sucks 75W now since an upgrade
<daftykins> speaking of whom my RAID controller just email'd me that it's beginning its' weekly verify :D
<dogmatic69> according to pc parts picker this new one will be around 200
<dogmatic69> atm I am too tight to power up the blade, so doing the dev on rpi :D
<dogmatic69> slow as heck
<daftykins> >_<
<shauno> heh, I do that with my xeon box.  it gets turned on for 30 minutes, and then killed again.  too loud, too much juice
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-24
<mapps> hey
<mapps> what a dull night
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> http://www.rathergood.com/chicken
<daftykins> this'll perk you up
<shauno> trying to explain the shipping forecast to an american.  not easy
<mapps> lol nice daftykins
<diddledan> that site is nsfw, daftykins :-p
<mapps> shipping forecast?
<diddledan> I just clicked on "base *nking*
<mapps> i thought it was diddledan im not at work..but it sees ok
<mapps> haha
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> diddledan claiming something as not safe
<daftykins> never thought i'd see the day
<daftykins> ;D
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> o_O talking gentoo in #ubuntu again?
<daftykins> yeah rww is willy-waving his knowledge, despite it breaking the very rules
<diddledan> \o/ for willy-waving
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> i kinda feel like teasing more but i was asking another channel regular about the saxophone he's fixing just prior
<daftykins> #ubuntu kinda annoys me, because when the channel's quiet, you get pounced on for saying *one* offtopic thing, even if you've been in there helping for years
<shauno> it goes quiet?  it's changed a bit since I peeked last then
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> occasionally
<mapps> damn my legs ache did legs yesterday..squats etc not done it for a while and then some cardio
<mapps> yea daftykins i agree
<mapps> f its quiet who cares imo
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl2cqqc9fsca0tw/IMG_20140523_150420.jpg
<daftykins> gardens near here that i walk through to get somewhere i go regularly :)
<daftykins> diddledan: careful, you'll become a regular!
<diddledan> oh god
<shauno> this guy is having way too much fun.  I'm jealous.  http://www.colinfurze.com/magneto.html
<daftykins> hrmmmm
<daftykins> yeah he's either high, on a caffeine/sugar rush, or been briefed on 'becoming super sensational'
<mapps> motive series seems ok watched  3 eps..gonna watch that new series gang related now :)
<daftykins> diddledan: stealing my thanks ;_;
<diddledan> :-D
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> thanks stealing...pfft
<mapps> ;p
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan> I'm going nightynight
 * diddledan zzz
<daftykins> nn sir
<mapps> night mate
<mapps> bank holiday weekend eh
<mapps> i still have work tomorrow or today (sat) and monday
<mapps> pfft
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> i suppose with your shifts, you could technically say you never get a day off ;)
<mapps> nights is nice tho being left alone
<mapps> aka irc'ing off my box and watching iplayer etc
<mapps> during day i coudldnt
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> do you not feel kinda isolated from most of humanity 0o
<mapps> well yea i mean at times for sure..work in the office and ike could be me and 1 guy in my department
<mapps> loadsa other people in..but diff departments,.diff buildings
<mapps> still id rather be isolated than be doing the other jobs..less money and watched..pfft that dont sound fun
<mapps> lp
<daftykins> troo dat
<mapps> i know people on phones and they get set breaks..counted down to the minute..cant go on any websites not work (blocked) supervisors etc waching them
<mapps> that enough would be annoying enough
<mapps> anyway i see people at the gym..or if i go out at night;p
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngf0h0nkwqmua62/VID_20140501_222503.mp4
<daftykins> my cat and her crazy kneading
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> she's doing it tonight where i've only got a thin shirt on
<daftykins> = ow
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> nn mapps, i'm gonna bail
<mapps> night mate
<shauno> I do believe it's bedtime here too :/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> back from holiday in cornwall. spent most of it puking with the rest of the family and wanting to die
<MartijnVdS> Cornwall isn't that bad is it?
<MartijnVdS> Not when I was there anyway
<foobarry> it is when your baby carries a contagious virus in her belly
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<MartijnVdS> :(
<foobarry> wife was so sad as we went with her wider family and we couldn't see them
<foobarry> took some photos to pretend we had a nice time though
<brobostigon> using G+'s auto-awesome,
<foobarry> had a nice walk up roughtor on first day though. love that place
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> when using AEB+-2 on your camera, does it automatically take 3 shots at once?
<foobarry> on one's camera.
<MartijnVdS> depends on the camera
<MartijnVdS> On mine, I have to press the shutter 3 times
<MartijnVdS> it's not automatic
<foobarry> . Focus and press the shutter button completely. The three bracketed shots will be taken in this sequence: Standard exposure, decreased exposure, and increased exposure.
<foobarry> If you use AEB with [  ] (single shooting), press the shutter button three times to take the three bracketed shots. If [  ] (continuous shooting) has been set and you press the shutter button completely, the three bracketed shots will be taken continuously in this sequence:
<foobarry> if you have to press it 3 times, and you don't have a tripod, that would be failsome, surely?
<MartijnVdS> for HDR, yes
<MartijnVdS> for "picking the best", the fel millimeters sdon't matter
<foobarry> generally use AEB for increasing the DR, for Sky+detail
<foobarry> amazon delivered something to my "safe place"..nothing there :(
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Morning moreati
<moreati> yo
<bigcalm> moreati: I still have your clock/temp sensor. I hope you have been keeping time okay without it
<moreati> yes, thanks, that's one of two and I never bother to set the clock on either
<moreati> was it of use?
<bigcalm> Yep, it showed that my own temp sensor is correct
<bigcalm> Or as wrong as yours ;)
<foobarry> didn't they keep 3 altimeters on ships?
<foobarry> so they knew which was wrong?
<penguin42> do you mean altimeters?
<foobarry> probably nor
<foobarry> not
<penguin42> I suspect you mean chronometers
<foobarry> *eters
 * penguin42 would assume ships don't have that much use for altimeters, since they're almost always at sealevel
<moreati> I may have to steal that joke :)
<bigcalm> :)
<penguin42> moreati: I'm just waiting for some particularly smart mariner to tell me some odd reason why that's not true
<moreati> penguin42: I suppose if heath robinson needed to track progress through a flight of locks
<penguin42> true. I mean something like the panama canal or whatever
<popey> morning
<popey> ish
<penguin42> yeh, it's close
<foobarry> got sucked in to the zinio 40% off offer :(
<bigcalm> Wassat?
<foobarry> zinio sent a promo code to get 40% off subscription of any mag
<foobarry> *any mag they do
<foobarry> i hate digital mags as i like to keep mine. don't have confidence i'd see mine again if zinio went under.
<foobarry> and it wasn't even the mag i want to subscribe to (they don't have it). but i subscribed to something else for Â£17, compared to Â£40 for the ideal mag
<foobarry> promo code is MAY40 until may27th
<mapps> that ooks good
<mapps> chicane were playng live last night
<penguin42> has anyone played with ubuntu-touch on Nook HD's - I just got a 2nd hand one and thought I might give it a go
<daftykins> mapps: the old school dancey/trancey type Chicane?
<Myrtti> http://imgur.com/a/UKGmQ found this from my laptop...
<shauno> hah, yeah; the blank for the cardslot
<daftykins> wow, that one's actually useful
<shauno> dell?
<daftykins> not sure what the whole curly top bit is trying to do though
<daftykins> certainly doubt it's going to open any bottles anytime soon ;)
<Myrtti> shauno: yeah
<Myrtti> daftykins: letter/package opener
<daftykins> hmm
<moreati> It's to cut your seatbelt if you ever crash a car into a lake, and your laptop is in the passenger seat
<daftykins> hahaha
<moreati> You''l find a device for breaking the window in one of the USB ports
<daftykins> a serrated-edge disc in an optical drive
 * penguin42 worries about daftykins ninja skills
<daftykins> what is wrong with my machine today, won't resolve domains for KiTTY or WinSCP
<daftykins> aaah auto DNS, with my daft ISP router
<Myrtti> aaannnd  then this happened http://imgur.com/gallery/f6HnMJL
<bigcalm> Great film :)
<moreati> one for popey http://imgur.com/gallery/PYdu6W7
<shauno> hm, I heard about the sequel to Sharknado ..
<daftykins> well that's not bad work for one evening, got a custom wordpress theme all installed and running :)
<daftykins> now for tomorrow, i just have to learn how to drive it so i can customise it to me \o/
<shauno> heh, that's pretty much my evening too.  weird
<daftykins> :O!
<shauno> (luckily it's not for me.  phew!)
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> they can be pretty messy endeavours
<shauno> the problem I always have is the difference between the theme they found on themeforrest, and what it looks like when they install it
<daftykins> *nod* thankfully mine from the very same site came with a sample
<daftykins> i'll PM you my test domain if you'd like a gander? :)
<shauno> heh, maybe another time?  I'm quite sick of it by now  lol
<daftykins> hehe no worries
<daftykins> i'm calling it a night and going off to the TV i think
<shauno> the whole "I spent $45 on this, make it work" thing is argh
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> plus all those plugin requirements... ugh
<daftykins> shauno: out of interest, what was the theme-name of your prison? :)
<shauno> two, continuum and soundboard
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-25
<daftykins> ah i think i tried out the former
<daftykins> do you do a little web hosting on the side, then?
<shauno> nah, I just have problems saying no to friends
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> I can't believe I'm buying 60eur of tea just because I broke my teacup
<daftykins> O_O
<penguin42> ?!
<shauno> exactly :)
<daftykins> <shauno browsing online> yes, yes for all the tea in China
<shauno> well the order has to be over 50eur to get me free shipping.  and then I have a 20eur gift token, but that doesn't count toward free shipping ..
<shauno> so to replace my 8eur cup, I'm going to place a 70eur order.  just because free shipping.
<daftykins> how much is shipping O_O
<shauno> 5eur  lol
<shauno> I'm well aware the sensible option is to spend the 20eur token on cup+shipping+7ur of whatever
<shauno> but .. but free shipping
<daftykins> well, that would be too easy
<shauno> besides, what use is a tea cup with no tea
<penguin42> the sensible option is to walk into a shop and buy a 4E cup
<shauno> but then it won't match the other cup
<penguin42> then the sensible option is to walk into a shop and buy 2 4E cups
<shauno> but they have to be very thin glass cups else they won't match the teapot
<penguin42> you have a matching teapot?!
<shauno> (hey, guess how I broke it .. heh)
<penguin42> you poured coffee into it?
<shauno> nah, simple gravity
<shauno> I have this; https://www.adagio.uk.com/teaware/concert_teapot.html
 * penguin42 assumes you knocked it with the transparent spout of your tea pot
<shauno> it just doesn't look right with regular cups
<penguin42> shauno: Can I suggest that you buy extra cups ?
<shauno> look sir.  2am is not the time for sensible :)
<shauno> that is a good idea though.  noted.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> just had to tell a drunkard to vacate the area outside my place
<shauno> strange things happen when you leave england.  you find yourself compensating in strange ways.  you will have a matching tea set.  beer will be cellar temperature - not room temperature, not fridge temperature.
<daftykins> i could hear his entire mobile convo from inside
<daftykins> 6 episodes of Deep Space 9 remain
<daftykins> oh no, 8
<d3ngar> Good evening
<daftykins> hi
<mapps> morning
<shauno> evening
<mapps> ;]
<popey> morning
<ball> hello popey!
<ball> Goodnight!
<mapps> morning
<gebbione> hi
<brobostigon> 890~ day uptime wiped away, great
<brobostigon> can someone check to make sure the stats work please.
<mapps> what happened?
<brobostigon> the networking on vps failed, so had to restart it entirly.
<mapps> :(
<brobostigon> could someone try it please.
<mapps> try what sorry
<brobostigon> the stats page, for the channel, it is linked in the topic.
<mapps> yep
<mapps> working
<brobostigon> good, was worried things had broke for a minute.
<mapps> heh
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Colin_brrrrr> Good evening
<penguin42> hey
<Colin_brrrrr> anyone here able to help me with a mounting problem
<penguin42> make sure you're facing the right way and put the foot in the stirrups?
<penguin42> Colin_brrrrr: Any more detail?
<Colin_brrrrr> yep, will type as fast as i can
<Colin_brrrrr> am studying digital forensics and doing some stuff on ubuntu
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ag8kdpcqyu7upj/AAAkWzq-olwDkdIFNcgyhcf8a
<daftykins> some snaps and a vid here in the sun
<Colin_brrrrr> have a windows disk image using EnCase v6 and trying to mount it
<Colin_brrrrr> have mount_ewf.py installed
<Colin_brrrrr> however, when I try and mount my disk image (EWF container) it appears to do it without any problems but when I go to the /mnt folder all is not well
 * penguin42 doesn't know of EnCase
<daftykins> not well how? the path is empty?
<Colin_brrrrr> <daftykins> yes empty and an ls -al shows a load of questionmarks
<Colin_brrrrr> <penguin42> EnCase clones a disk into an evidence container file with CRC etc..
<Colin_brrrrr> maybe need extra stuff such as fuse files ??
<daftykins> http://epyxforensics.com/node/39
<Colin_brrrrr> <daftykins> will have a look...
<daftykins> just FYI that was one of the first hits off google
<daftykins> ;)
<Colin_brrrrr> <daftykins> <penguin42>  thanks all, will try this out, kinda half way there but come a bit unstuck, thanks
<mapps> brr
<daftykins> cold?
<mapps> got soaked earlier stupid weather
<penguin42> yes, it has been a bit
<popey> been sunny here all day
<daftykins> think i'm gonna make some bacon sarnies
<mapps> walked to work to get my bank cards - left them on my desk :( was there about 30seconds came out and it's bucketing down!
<mapps> hm
<mapps> boring day
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fl24diko3kbmkel/VID_20140525_224919.mp4
<daftykins> 0o
 * penguin42 sighs at his ability to kill SSDs
<popey> â¹
<penguin42> don't suppose you know how to repair mysql do you if it's lost an ib_logfile
<popey> nope
<penguin42> I've lost my mysql database for zoneminder, I do have a dump of it so could restore from that
<bigcalm> penguin42: will the 'repair <table name>' command not work?
<penguin42> bigcalm: mysql won't start so I don't think I can get that far
<bigcalm> Poop
 * penguin42 seems to have it running again - I'm not quite sure what was lost in the end... but I deleted the log files, turned on the force innodb recover in the log file, restarted it, stopped it and then turned that flag off like it told me to and well it seems to be running
<bigcalm> \o/
<daftykins> backup time \o/
<penguin42> yeh well, I was about to take another backup...
<daftykins> so what's with you and SSDs? :)
<penguin42> I don't know - that's two in 4 days
<penguin42> different makes, in different systems, doing different things
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> which kinds?
<penguin42> mine was a Crucial bottom end 64GB, / on my firewall
<daftykins> ah, a V series?
<daftykins> ah no thinking of the wrong thing
<penguin42> V4-CT064V4SSD2 crucial one
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-18
<mapps> hm
<knightwise> Morning everyone
<knightwise> hey mapps
<knightwise> how areyou
<mapps> yay
<mapps> hey
<mapps> im good
<mapps> 5 days and back in Knighstbridge
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> GIB -> LHR ->Knightsbridge (tube)
<mapps> probably take ~ 4-5hrs
<mapps> then 5 days later the same miserable journey back;[
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<mapps> episode 7 of secrets and lies then bedtime;)
<brobostigon> morning mapps
<mapps> morn
<mapps> 3 more eps
<mapps> i wanna see it all but need to sleep
<mapps> 10mins of secrets and lies then silicon valley
<mapps> anyone else watch silicon valley?
<zmoylan-pi> i like silicon valley o/
<mapps> yea
<mapps> cool show what ep u on
<zmoylan-pi> last weeks.
<zmoylan-pi> *squeak squeak squeak*
<mapps> :D
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> torrential rain here :( if it keeps going like this we're going to be flooded :D
<zmoylan-pi> light rain here, so technically a drought :-)
<diplo> We had light rain from 6am onwards
<MooDoo> not nice here too, should be done by dinner time, fingers crossed
<popey> gonna pick up this afternoon http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2649672
<diplo> yeah this afternoon it supposedly is clearing up, back to rain until Thursday :(
<popey> then a good bank holiday weekend
 * popey books next tuesday off
<MooDoo> i'm thinking friday
<diplo> Hopefully it clears up, my birthday Tuesday, another wedding this weekend and half term, so need to take some time off with the boys!
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Houses on pontoons, you know it makes sense! And yes, they really are an actual thing.
<TwistedLucidity> Bank Holiday (which I can remembered to book off for once) and beer festival. Huzzah!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy No Dirty Dishes Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> paperplates ftw!! \o/
<Sebsebsebb> Morning
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's the way forward!
<Sebsebsebb> hmm laptops two to choose from both the same really except for the processor and graphics and I don't know which one would be better to go for really with Linux comparability in mind as well
<directhex> Sebsebsebb: what are the options?
<zmoylan-pi> the older chipset is usally the most compatible.  _usually_
<bashrc> yes
<Sebsebsebb> also I assume these machines are more than  good enough to run virtualbox and some Linux 3d games
<Sebsebsebb> intersingly the one on the hp site with intel processor and graphics is out of stock at the moment and quite a bit more than the and one at john lewis
<Sebsebsebb> Yes that's what I been thinking the older hardware is probably more compatibke
<directhex> well...
<Sebsebsebb> its intel vs and I'll get links now
<directhex> that's not always a useful thing to think
<directhex> many parts of a system basically don't change between revisions, so the older one isn't more compatible, it's just older
<directhex> hence 10:43 <directhex> Sebsebsebb: what are the options?
<ali1234> make sure the intel one has virtualization support
<ali1234> a lot of intel mobile chips have it disabled
<Sebsebsebb> i think that's rather new intel processor and graphics but not suet, however it seems the Appollo on http://entroware.com runs the same or similar hardware, and the AMD hardware has been around a year or so already I think going by looking up
<Sebsebsebb> ill get the actdual links to the two machines now
<Sebsebsebb> yeah without hardware virtualisation support stuck with software, but yeah with 8gb ram guess what I want to use it for? Yes running at last two vms at once I guess
<Sebsebsebb> at times
<Sebsebsebb> linux distro vms :)
<Sebsebsebb> http://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=M0R72EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
<Sebsebsebb> yeah looks like these lap tops are similar to the lenovo yogas
<Sebsebsebb> there was a older one from last year that apparantly going by a comment was nicely linux compatible, but not sure about the later
<Sebsebsebb> and now for the John Lewis link....
<TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: You can spec that Apollo in other places for about Â£100 less, but of course you don't get any GNU/Linux support and nothing flows back to other projects.
<Sebsebsebb> Yes not buying entroware since to expensive for what actually get
<popey> (1366 x 768) :(
<Sebsebsebb> so yes the hp kink is what I was thinking as a possibility since I want small and portable to and the one with and hardware instead of intel was on John Lewis so I'll get that link now
<Sebsebsebb> popey what for the computer I linked to?
<popey> the hp one
<popey> I'm looking for a laptop, and 1366x768 was the resolution of laptop I bought 3 years ago
<popey> and it was silly then
<Sebsebsebb> oh
<Sebsebsebb> well I guess a bit of a rubbushey resolution since it'd a 13 inch screen?
<directhex> well, there's no law saying 13" means crap resolution
<directhex> it's a windows problem
<directhex> basically, traditional windows apps don't scale well to non-100 DPI. which has guided laptop screen resolution for decades
<directhex> making high res screens was never impossible - users just hated it
<directhex> i had a housemate with a high DPI (1600x1200) laptop screen on a dell in 2002. they just stopped making them due to customers complaining about tiny fonts
<directhex> windows 8 is better at it, especially on "metro" apps
<directhex> and he's gone
<directhex> bloody mibbit
<ali1234> all he had to do was post two links
<directhex> yeah, sometimes that's too much for people
<directhex> providing the info needed to help is a big ask
<ali1234> i don't really see the point of hi dpi, my eyes just aren't good enough for that
<ali1234> i mean if you have a 42" TV then maybe, but 13"?
<directhex> to an extent, that's the idea
<directhex> to make pixels so tiny you can't distinguish them
<bashrc> probably makes little difference at 13"
<zmoylan-pi> i watch most stuff on 7" tablet as my eyes are happiest with that
<ali1234> that's what i mean though. i can't distinguish pixels on my 24" 1920x1200 monitor
<Sebsebsebb> Ok so same machine by the looks of it but amd hardware instead http://www.johnlewis.com/hp-pavilion-x360-13-a052na-convertible-laptop-amd-a8-8gb-ram-1tb-13-3-touch-screen-silver/p1833363?navAction=jump
<ali1234> to be quite honest i would not touch HP with a long pointy stick
<ali1234> given the choice between those two though, i would get the intel if the extra Â£150 was not an issue
<directhex> i would not touch an AMD laptop with a long pointy stick
<zmoylan-pi> touching hp with a spear is _one_ way to destroy it... :-)
<ali1234> i would consider buying from john lewis though
<ali1234> their customer support is much better than what you will get if you buy direct from the manufacturer
<Sebsebsebb> Well my Asus eeepc x101ch that replacing now well once got a computer was a 10 inch worked alright but some of the Linux programs would get cut off
<TwistedLucidity> That's a cheap HP consumer unit - it will have issues.
<zmoylan-pi> they have to be seen to be adding something to the buying experience.  can make the 3rd party well worth the money
<TwistedLucidity> Entroware is re-badged Clevo (like many small-scale re-sellers) - it will have issues.
<TwistedLucidity> e.g. I am not 100% sure the touchpad works properly
<directhex> there are only like 10 companies that make laptops anyway. the big-names are still wistron or clevo
<ali1234> that many?
<ali1234> but yes. they are all made to a budget by the same handful of companies and you get what you pay for
<bashrc> if you're getting a laptop I think there are ones which ship with ubuntu installed
<ali1234> even better than that, ou can get ones that ship with ubuntu mate :)
<bashrc> yes I think so
<ali1234> ...from entroware
<ali1234> they cost twice what these HPs cost though
<awilkins> My HP started doing a weird thing
<bashrc> I would be tempted to go with something where I knew there weren't going to be weird problems (eg. with graphics/wifi)
<awilkins> Shutting it down makes it reboot
<directhex> foxconn, wistron, clevo, compal, quanta, ecs, asus, pegatron, flextec, inventec, uniwill, arima, mitac, fic
<directhex> i think that's the full list
<awilkins> Saw a similar ticket for another HP model that claimed a BIOS update fixed it but it doesn't
<ali1234> https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/apollo
<bashrc> also beware of EFI stuff that can't be turned off if it ships with Windows
<ali1234> that is actually not massively more expensive than the intel HP
<directhex> bashrc: like?
<ali1234> and has a better screen
<ali1234> not 360 degree hinge but that is a gimmick and will probably break
<bashrc> I don't know, but remember reading something about some windows systems not having the ability to turn off EFI
<directhex> bashrc: you can't turn off EFI. computers only have one firmware. on modern ones, it's EFI
<directhex> whether or not you can enable BIOS emulation isn't the same thing
<directhex> (and BIOS emulation is bad, not good, kids!)
<Sebsebsebb> Uh just lost what I was typing silly ipad
<ali1234> also it has better networking
<directhex> moving from BIOS to UEFI is one of the best bits about my new desktop
<Sebsebsebb> and yes uefi worrys me a bit
<directhex> BIOS is so bad it's funny
<directhex> i for one welcome our new UEFI overlords
<ali1234> i tried to do uefi on my dad's PC but ubuntu wouldn't boot
<ali1234> it would boot the installer, install, boot up once, and then refuse to ever work again
<Sebsebsebb> ideally need to make sure can turn uefi off but distros have support now more
<ali1234> so i just switched it to bios mode
<ali1234> then it worked fine
<directhex> Sebsebsebb: "turn off UEFI" makes literally no sense
<directhex> "i turned off my firmware" is nonsense. "i forced 1970s boot emulation" isn't the same thing as "i turned off my firmware"
<zmoylan-pi> not when the new windows 10 laptops won't allow it
 * Sebsebsebb Thinks it will be fun to try out the soon to be released Mageia 5 with the new UEFI EFI, delayed for quite a whike, because of stufff like that, but well small community disto
<ali1234> i really really don't understand why people use stuff like that
<ali1234> i mean distributions have exactly one job, which is to package software in a timely manner
<ali1234> ONE JOB
<intrbiz> so why would people use debian acording to your one law?
<ali1234> i don't know!
<Sebsebsebb> since it's actually quite a nice distro, just the development team is well I guess only about 200 people overall for now
<ali1234> i mean there's always unstable
<popey> Do HP require you to pay for bios updates on laptops the way they do on servers?
<Sebsebsebb> Mageia is all about quality the amount of testing it goes through before a final release is amazing and even with such a small amount of contributors, however it does mean only really one final stable release per year, but yeah it's on the like opposite end of the scale to Ubuntu in the small community section, with Ubuntu being on the other end in
<Sebsebsebb>  the big and commercial section
<Sebsebsebb> hi intrbiz :)
<intrbiz> Sebsebsebb: hi
 * Sebsebsebb Is thinking of doing a nice multi boot once got new lap top, so Windows 8 hmm later upgrade to 10 on the free upgrade, Ubuntu for Unity, Fedora for well GNOME is nice in Fedora and I started with Fedora, and Mageia since.... Yeah
<Sebsebsebb> so uefi EFI nonsense better work well enough or I guess that idea isn't really going to work
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: windows 10 logo certification no longer mandates BIOS emulation, and makes secure boot disable optional rather than mandatory. the former is no big deal because BIOS is awful. the latter... i expect HP etc to not allow disable, whilst ODM laptops and all motherboards bought outside a PC will keep it
 * zmoylan-pi suspects that secure boot switches will disappear quickly from low end of market making linux a luxury os so to speak
<directhex> well, making "Free" distros working out-of-the-box a luxury, sure.
<Sebsebsebb> So going back properly to the two lap tops which our of the two is better reakky
<directhex> ubuntu or fedora are verisign-signed, so will work out of the box
<zmoylan-pi> will kill adoption of linux when kids on their cheap systems can't experiment
<ali1234> good.
<intrbiz> don't we (as a linux community) have a signed stage one bootloader?
<bashrc> it's secure boot switchability which I was wondering about earlier. The most evil scenario would be if the boot system only permitted specific Windows kernels
<directhex> intrbiz: yes.
<Sebsebsebb> as for price yes cheaper on John Lewis, but meant to be able to get a bit of a discount directly from hp anyway since...
<directhex> bashrc: that wouldn't be a compliant implementation
<intrbiz> so, secure boot isn't really an issue, for making a distro boot
<directhex> bashrc: there's a whole key signing infrastructure which people should be using. any binary signed with a trusted key should just work
<intrbiz> I'd agree with the stance that consumers should not be locked out of their devices etc
<directhex> sign your own binaries. enroll your own key
<ali1234> directhex: so is it possible yet to make a computer which can boot linux but not windows, without having to self sign anything or load keys?
<directhex> block microsoft's key!
<directhex> ali1234: hm... not without doing one of those things
<ali1234> can be done only with loading keys?
<ali1234> ie you can still use the normal ISO downloaded from ubuntu.com?
<Sebsebsebb> ali1234 going back to earlier why don't you like hp directhex going back to earlier why don't you like amd
<directhex> ali1234: ubuntu's boot loader has been signed with the verisign (microsoft) key for ages, so works out of the box on windows 8 only systems
<ali1234> i don't like hp because in my experience their support is rubbish, their website is rubbish, their hardware only works with drivers from hp, and their laptops are locked to prevent you from using any third party hardware in them
<popey> I stopped buying HP when they made you pay for BIOS/firmware updates.
<directhex> Sebsebsebb: ati's driver is crap on linux
<Sebsebsebb> oh at popey
<intrbiz> HP servers are off my list, due to the updates issue
<popey> (certainly for microserver, dunno if that applies to laptops, I'd ask them)
<ali1234> directhex: so can i type in a key and then secure boot will allow ubuntu to run, but not windows 8?
<intrbiz> popey: IIRC it's just the server lines
<popey> thats a blessing I guess
<directhex> ali1234: you can remove the verisign key, and add the individual signatures of ubuntu's binaries and your device firmwares
<ali1234> so no then
<ali1234> i have to either self sign everything, or calculate the checksums of a load of different files
<ali1234> which are different on every computer
<ali1234> and change with every software update
<directhex> going out of your way to block installation of windows on arbitrary consumer hardware is a weird goal
<ali1234> why?
<directhex> and signed GPU firmware will bite you in the ass anyway
<zmoylan-pi> but weirdly satisfying :-)
<Sebsebsebb> directhex yeah I have got that impression to over the past few years that amd isn't good in Linux for graphics, but I wasn't sure about currently. Whatnabout the processor though or won't that raally matter, the intel hp one is dual core it seems and the John Lewis and one is quad core it serms
<ali1234> AMD isn't good in anything for anything
<Sebsebsebb> Apparantly going by some blog post I read the other night AMD is more for gaming and intel more for graphics. Or the other way around
<Sebsebsebb> ali1234 yeah maybe that's why the amd one even at John Lewis is quite a bit cheaper than the intel one with only 4gb ram
 * bashrc doesn't particularly care about gaming and only cares about graphics insofar as drivers that work
<Sebsebsebb> bashrc yeah same really
<popey> I've managed to avoid AMD/ATI entirely thankfully.
<Sebsebsebb> it seems popey doesn't like them either
<intrbiz> just switched out my nvidia cards for AMD cards, had no driver issues (using free drivers), unlike the nvidia cards
<popey> I have one machine with an AMD CPU and that's my HP Microserver
<Sebsebsebb> so out of the two lap tops overall the intel one is probably the better one out of the two, and for what I wanted to do?
<Sebsebsebb> and yes the hinge thing is a gimmick as someone put earlier, but why not may as well have it, and don't need a lenovo yoga or flex for it
<Sebsebsebb> Lenovo with pre installed spyware malware whatever it was, any opinions on thst
<intrbiz> TBH for a laptop the CPU would be of lesser concern for me than screen, battery life and SSD
<zmoylan-pi> for me it's screen>keyboard>battery life>hdd capacity
<Sebsebsebb> intrbiz did you go on the two links I linked to earlier
<Sebsebsebb> for me the internal storage space is important hence rulleing out for example the yoga 3 11 inch since 128gb would be to small
<zmoylan-pi> for me a laptop needs at least .5tb these days
<Sebsebsebb> hard disk or ssd whatever, it's the amount of space itself that I care about
<zmoylan-pi> you can get that in flash but i trust hdd more
<intrbiz> I'd rule out that HP on screen res alone:     1366 x 768 @ 13.3 if awful
<Sebsebsebb> intrbiz that's what popey basically said, but how awful is it really and compared to my asus eeepc x101ch whatever that had
<Sebsebsebb> and that was a 10 inch screen
<TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: What is your budget?
<popey> Think I've decided to just run my thinkpad into the ground
<popey> maybe upgrade the SSD now and then and that's it
<popey> it's maxed out RAM and isn't exactly slow for doing what I do.
<directhex> this macbook is basically junk for linux. i'll get something else next time
<intrbiz> 1366 x768 is fine on 9 or 10, 13.3 need 1680x1050 at least in my mind
<popey> yeah
<Sebsebsebb> TwistedLucidity 300 to maybe about 500 I guess, but don't want to spend to much on one, since well can end up breaking them in the end
<TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: T430 off ebay, can be your for around Â£350 witha 250GB SSD. The build quality will blow HP and Entroware out of the water
<TwistedLucidity> Note: At that price the graphics are only Intel, so it won't do much gaming
<TwistedLucidity> And RAM is 8GB
<Sebsebsebb> HP one had 1TB
<TwistedLucidity> The screens are shockingly dreadful though
<Sebsebsebb> for which
<TwistedLucidity> Lenovo. The worst screens known to man.
<Sebsebsebb> oh it's a lenovo
<TwistedLucidity> The T430 will happily swallow extra drives, and there's always USB3.
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah T430 = Lenovo Thinkpad T430.
<popey> yeah, i put two drives in my x220
<Sebsebsebb> Screen is bad how?
<popey> I think that's a matter of opinion
<Sebsebsebb> Yep
<popey> and some hyperbole
<TwistedLucidity> They are simply cheap. So not full HD, not IPS, poor viewing angles and if you have a gloss one (like me) hard to use in sunlight.
<popey> My Toshiba had a terrible screen.
<TwistedLucidity> But it's about the only think wrong
<TwistedLucidity> I want to swap my screen for a matte one from the X1 Carbon. Need to find the correct adapter lead though....
<TwistedLucidity> The new T440 and so on have a *much better* screen, but they are outside your budget
<Sebsebsebb> And for the other one the bad resolution is opinion to, but how small is it really for text etc hmm
<awilkins> Chap in my hackspace just noted that this monster of a laptop has been reduced : http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/pd
<Sebsebsebb> TwistedLucidity well I could do about 700 in a way, but it seems to much to me for a portable etc lap top
<TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: All depends what you want to use it for. VMs do mean you'll need beefy RAM and CPU
<zmoylan-pi> i could never carry a 15" laptop anymore.  just too big
<TwistedLucidity> I'd be inclinded to run the VMs on a home server/cloud and buy a data SIM.
<Sebsebsebb> I am also looking to get a 15inch or so lap top sorted out for my much younger little brother, as a first lap top of his own, so I was thinking maybe to one of thiose pre installed ubuntu buyer ones
<popey> first laptop = ebay laptop :)
 * popey hugs his Thinkpad X61S from ebay for 60 quid
<Sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi same for me personally I like small lite waistband portable so 15inch nope
<moreati> Sebsebsebb: "waistband portable"?
<Sebsebsebb> pooey well in a way, but I am not paying for it, so can get him something better
<Sebsebsebb> mainly for typing stuff for school and stuff like that. I am thinking of getting one without Windows pre installed so he hopefully starts learning some Linux though, and then dont have to think about viruses ettc in windows.
<zmoylan-pi> i love my olpc's size, shape, handle and it has the best mobile screen ever which can be used in bw mode outdoors in the sun.
<zmoylan-pi> it's keyboard and processor are sub par though
<popey> I love my Intel Classmate
<popey> nice handle too
<Sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi lite waight correcting above
<zmoylan-pi> 3rd time lucky :-)
<knightwise> afternoon peeps
<TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: If it's for school, he will probably be required to use Windows.
<knightwise> Currently waiting for a quote on a Dell XPS13 to arrive
<knightwise> finally gave in after quite some doubts on what model to pick
<bashrc_> so, my mobile phone is dead. I think the battery died completely. I'm tempted to get an UbuntuPhone, but I don't know if the apps are quite there yet in terms of xmpp/otr, tor, etc
<diplo> Dont think there are any messaging apps yet, talk of pidgin etc but I don't think it's been done yet
<bashrc_> I probably have enough skills to write apps, but just not the time
<diplo> Porting jitsi maybe worth the effort I guess
<bashrc_> yes I expect so
<bashrc_> also what's the browser like on the UbuntuPhone? Can I do things like block ads and visit sites with self-signed certs?
<diplo> Based on chromium I *think*, been a while since I read up on it to be honest.. popey will probably answer later :)
<bashrc_> so I guess the conservative choice would be something like a N5, where I could run either cyanogen or ubuntutouch
<zmoylan-pi> nah, conservative would be a nokia 3310 :-D
<diplo> heh I'm thinking of doing the same, except the n4 as I don't have the cash for the 5
<bashrc_> my dead phone is a n4
<diplo> MartijnVdS: You're just down the road from me according to G+ :)
<diplo> On holibobs ?
<diddledan> ello
<zmoylan-pi> allo allo
<zmoylan-pi> theese eesss night 'awk
 * diddledan loved allo allo
<zmoylan-pi> wonderfully bad
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> it didn't need to be emaculately turned-out because it was silly
<diddledan> the whole concept being based in nowhere france that had absolutely zero impact on the war
<directhex> good moaning
<zmoylan-pi> it's that idiot english policeman who thinks he can speak french...
<ujjain> I won Â£1600 at a casino, now they say they "you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. " as per T&C... that's painful :(
<awilkins> Nasty
<awilkins> I know casinos are full of unfairness but that one seems particularly churlish
<OerHeks> deposit Â£10, walk around, return Â£60 in chips, buy Â£60, walk around and return Â£360, buy Â£300, deposit Â£1600, done
<awilkins> 6 times *first* deposit. They thought of that one.
<OerHeks> oh ..
<zmoylan-pi> they're set up to make them money, not you
<OerHeks> Oh that is why casino's in NL are in hands of our gouvernment :-D
<awilkins> They dangle the prospect of large unowned riches in your face... and then the T&Cs say (except when it actually happens..)
<awilkins> *unearned
<ujjain> deposit Â£20, automatically added bonus of Â£20, win Â£1600, forcefully have to play for 2 more hours because of minimium Â£1k spending limit, withdraw... T&C... you can only win max 6xÂ£20 deposit, 93% of the Â£1600 stayss with them.
<directhex> the house always wins
<directhex> unless you side with caesar's legion
<awilkins> Best way to win at a casino : eat dinner
<awilkins> Last time I was in a casino, got a cracking 4 course dinner for Â£15, including Â£5 of chips.
<zmoylan-pi> lots of slots winners who've won big are told it was a computer error and are not paid too
<awilkins> They make it nice to lure you in.
<awilkins> "Computer error"?!? Sorry, that's just bent. If it's your machine at fault, you should pay out.
<zmoylan-pi> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/sorry-grandma-that-42-million-slot-machine-jackpot-was-a-computer-glitch/
<ali1234> awilkins: the solution is simple then. make another account and fold the money to yourself on heads up poker
<ujjain> I thoguht about that lol
<ujjain> roxy palace does have poker
<ujjain> argh
<ujjain> can't even unscerw myself
<ujjain> Eva: this is a part of the terms and conditions
<ujjain> Eva: I wish I could change it but I cannot
<ali1234> not true actually
<ali1234> "Management reserves the right, entirely in its sole  discretion, to waive and/or modify the application of this clause in  individual instances."
<ujjain> Yeah, but I've asked via chat, and they refer 4 times to the T&C.
<ujjain> not even asying more, so yeah.
<ujjain> seems quiet horrible to work for chat support for a casino, a lot of upset people.
<awilkins> Ok ubuntoids : what about this bug where shutting down my computer just makes it reboot?
<bashrc> sounds odd
<awilkins> Basically this : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1346269
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1346269 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 14.04 won't shut down (reboots)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<awilkins> After upgrading to 15.04 I think
<awilkins> Got home the other day and my laptop had been running in my bag for 90 minutes - it was a bit warm
<diddledan> eep
<awilkins> I'm guessing it's some ACPI weirdness
<awilkins> Upgraded my BIOS, didn't help :-(
<awilkins> Some hint on that bug that graphics drivers may also affect it
<awilkins> Will go and twiddle the nvidia driver to the newest one
<awilkins> Have to bleach and reinstall it anyway at some point to encrypt the drives
<awilkins> Have found a fix to my constant rebooting problem
<awilkins> Involves going into the BIOS and turning off _everything_ with the word "wake" in it
<awilkins> Don't know what it was but perhaps some USB device (wired into the motherboard) is still awake when things shut down and it wakes the computer back up again in it's dying moments
<directhex> awilkins: my wife had a similar issue. was a root USB hub, apparently, to blame
<awilkins> If I could be bothered I'd selectively re-enable things
<awilkins> But I can't
<awilkins> Only happened recently so *shrug*
<diddledan> I just sent a big moany email at my colleagues :-p
<zmoylan-pi> moaning about?
<diddledan> the lack of upstreaming patches to drupal.org
<zmoylan-pi> ah freeloading users of drupal... :-)
<diddledan> we appear to be collecting patches which we don't need to be
<diddledan> we have about a 8 different patches that I've told them all they really need to be filing upstream
<zmoylan-pi> but that would help the competition who also use drupal!!
<diddledan> IMO changes to drupal core or contrib modules should ALWAYS be upstream
<zmoylan-pi> that's communism!!!
<diddledan> /kickban zmoylan-pi Microsoft apologist
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft are commies? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> worst. commies. evar.
<diddledan> err no, you were moaning about the commies
<zmoylan-pi> no no they think open source is cancer
<awilkins> Open Sores Losers are Commies!
<diddledan> I kb'd you because you're obviously anti-open-sauce
<awilkins> Open Sauce is the worst.
<zmoylan-pi> i always put the lid back on the sauce AND the toothpaste
<awilkins> You leave it open and it collects spores and you  end up with furry sores
<zmoylan-pi> i've also started keeping the sauce in the fridge
<diddledan> I need coke, brb.
<awilkins> So you can have cold sauce?
<zmoylan-pi> a little late for caffine stimulants?
<zmoylan-pi> just trying it, someone recommended it and am seeing if i can taste difference at end of bottle
<awilkins> I kept a bottle of Worcestershire sauce for 5 years at uni
<awilkins> It gets better as it matures
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, but that tastes the same when it goes off :-)
<awilkins> Then my mother in law threw it away because of the date on it
<daftykins> diddledan: collecting patches? perhaps a quilt is being made!
<awilkins> Host servers, get free heating http://www.nerdalize.com/#heating
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-19
<diddledan> awilkins: WAT
<diddledan> the woman says "does it buzz? does it hiss? does it beep?" and then says "no" as though she expected it to
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFUlGMhWMAAko2N.jpg <-- nawww
<daftykins> nice find :D
<diddledan> twitter's emergency kittens ftw
<daftykins> flapjack calls but i'm wary of how bad an idea it is
<daftykins> given i eat the whooooole lot
<daftykins> 8D
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> noone awake? O_o
<diddledan> ello
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<elfy> good morning
<brobostigon> morning elfy
<MooDoo> hello all
<ujjain> hello
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Ho ho and a bottle of rum
<MooDoo> bigcalm: as long as it's the kraken spiced rum :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy May Ray Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> named after people named ray born in may?
<zmoylan-pi> or people named may soaking up some rays?
<aquarius> It's a day to enjoy the sunshine, apparently. Presumably if you live in, say, Florida :)
<zmoylan-pi> and not ireland...
 * zmoylan-pi links to obligitary funny pic of irish person sun bathing... http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/funny-pale-irish-girl-sun-bathing-sand-pics.jpg
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's lovely and sunny here, but give it five minutes....
<bigcalm> The sun just went away. About to get some rain I think
<zmoylan-pi> or fog, hail or an outbreak of snow...
<JamesTait> Aha, here comes the rain!
<MooDoo> holy cr*p just noticed it out the window :D
<JamesTait> You have Windows?
<MooDoo> lol yeah just the one though
<JamesTait> It gets mighty loud in here when the rain gets heavy. Polycarbonate roof.
<zmoylan-pi> when you can't hear a radio beside you from heavy rain...
<bashrc> good moaning
<TwistedLucidity> Are you jist pssing by?
<bashrc> :)
<zmoylan-pi> he 'as the butteries for the ridio down 'is poonts
<MooDoo> :)
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<MooDoo> hi selinuxium
<selinuxium> Hey MooDoo  How's tricks ?
<MooDoo> selinuxium: not bad thanks :D
<popey> http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/car-crashes-lower-earley-estate-9287075
<popey> fun comment from Mr Srobot
<daftykins> interesting, a client with a place in the south of Spain has found someone selling access to a local WiMAX product
<daftykins> offering 20Mb down and 6Mb up
<diddledan> been messing with polymer today: http://diddledan.github.io/validate-string/
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11232135/
<ali1234> anyone want to guess how the checksums are calculated?
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> incrementally?
<ali1234> nope, tried that
<ali1234> it's not xor either
<diddledan> is this your photoframe again?
<ali1234> different handset now
<diddledan> aah
<ali1234> hacking the address book
<ali1234> it stores 16 byte string for the name and 13 bytes bcd for the number, and then a checksum
<moreati> Does anyone have Chrome (not Chromium) installed? Does https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-tone/nnckehldicaciogcbchegobnafnjkcne?utm_source=chrome-app-launcher-info-dialog work? I get a an error about being offline
<ali1234> seems to work for me
<diddledan> surely there's a privacy nightmare in that?
<moreati> diddledan: how so?
<diddledan> randomly broadcasting your browsing to anyone within earshot
<moreati> it only broadcasts when you click the button
<diddledan> is it actually audible to humans or supersonic?
<moreati> diddledan: audible, sounds like a synthesiser riff.
<diddledan> I'm guessing it's the same tech they use in android to connect to chromecasts without knowing the wifi details
<moreati> a variant, the ChromeCast tech is ultrasonic
<moreati> ali1234: were you saying Tone works for you? If so, on Chrome or Chromium?
<ali1234> i didn't try running it
<moreati> cd src
<moreati> FTR Tone probably works in Chrome, but not Chromium because it requires Chrom(e|ium) 43.x, and Universe  currently ships 41.x - once universe catches up all should be well
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-20
<intrbiz> yay, I have sheepdog up and running
<daftykins> how long until you're on one man and his dog?
<intrbiz> well I guess I might be able to borrow on of those boston dynamics creations
 * OerHeks takes a ride on his chihuahua, yipeee!
<daftykins> hahaha
<mapps> morming
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy diplo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day mates
<MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt and MooDoo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Weights and Measures Day! ð
 * directhex measures JamesTait 
<JamesTait> How many cubits?
<MooDoo> 1.21 jiggawatts isn't it
<popey> Morning slackers
<MooDoo> morning ;)
<brobostigon> gigawatts, MooDoo
<kjvarley> Got a weird apache2 problem after doing updates last night. All of my virtualhosts have stopped working.
<kjvarley> Chrome reports ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED for them
<kjvarley> My entries are still present in /etc/hosts and here is the content of my /var/log/apache2/error.log : http://paste.ubuntu.com/11242632/
<diplo> They're not errors, just notices, basically just sayings its restarted. Could set the servername to drop that one
<diplo> So no sites work at all ?
<kjvarley> diplo: Correct
<kjvarley> It's weird, because I ahven
<kjvarley> It's weird because I haven't changed the virtualhost files
<diplo> Was it a big update? or just a security one, changes from apache 2.2 -> 2.4 had some major config changes
<kjvarley> Is there a way to view what I updated last ?
<kjvarley> Got it
<diplo> Maybe, not sure of that.. I'll check.. can check your apache configs I think by apache2 -t
<kjvarley> Software centre lets you view it
<diplo> Ah is this running locally then ?
<kjvarley> Yeah, sorry I forgot to say
<kjvarley> Here's the error from apache2 -t http://paste.ubuntu.com/11242824/
<kjvarley> The APACHE_LOCK_DIR variable is set in /etc/apache2/envvars tho
<diplo> Not seen that before, that is set in /etc/apache2/envvar
<diplo> Does that exisit on yours
<kjvarley> Yeah it seems to
<kjvarley> My /etc/apache2/envvars http://paste.ubuntu.com/11242834/
<diplo> http://askubuntu.com/questions/452042/why-is-my-apache-not-working-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-14-04
<kjvarley> I have disabled the default config tho
<kjvarley> Via sudo a2dissite 000-default
<kjvarley> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11242874/
<diplo> Ah, reading another post.. it is because you haven't defined servername apprently
<diplo> add localhost to servername in apache2.conf or your preferred fqdn
<diplo> I've not had that on mine, odd
<diplo> http://serverfault.com/questions/558283/apache2-config-variable-is-not-defined
<diplo> Was the post, mines not set either though
<diplo> But... I updated today.. not sure if that was a apache update though
<diplo> Hmm tis confusing as others are putting down different reasons, your site.conf is set to /var/www or /var/www/html ? as that seems it could be the issue too. Also why I may not have seen it as I change my DocumentRoot to something completely different than /var/www
<kjvarley> I'm not using the default config
<kjvarley> my web roots are in /srv
<kjvarley> /srv/domain.localhost/public_html
<kjvarley> I've managed to get it to show me something
<kjvarley> But now the magento install is saying invalid PHP version. Saying 5.3.0 or newer...But I'm on 5.6
<kjvarley> It's odd
<diplo> Does sound like something is odd about your install
<diplo> php -v returns the same ?
<kjvarley> Sorted
<kjvarley> Added this to the virtualhost
<kjvarley> <Directory />
<kjvarley> 	  Options FollowSymLinks
<kjvarley> 	  AllowOverride All
<kjvarley> 	  Require all granted
<kjvarley> 	</Directory>
<kjvarley> Ooops sorry for the spam...
<kjvarley> I think I removed the newrelic php module and that disabled PHP. But that wasn't causing the virtual host issue
<kjvarley> Fixed now anyway :)
<diplo> That change is the 2.2 -> 2.4 apache thing I mentioned earlier, but I got a completely different error from memory
<kjvarley> Haha thanks for your help diplo :)
 * diddledan picks his nose
<diddledan> quiet in here today
<popey> davmor2 isn't around, that's why
<diddledan> aah
<zmoylan-pi> maybe we could clone davmor2 to davmor3...
<diddledan> ooh good idea
<zmoylan-pi> a backup
<zmoylan-pi> or davmor2 could get an apprentice to fill in for their absences
<diddledan> so what pet projects are folk working on? I'm personally messing about with polymer webcomponents
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: an intern will do a reasonable job plus they never sleep
<diddledan> do interns get paid?
<zmoylan-pi> all the coffee and biscuits they can stomach
<zmoylan-pi> rich tea and digestive biscuits and instant coffee
<diddledan> lol, chrome's omnibar - I wrote "do interns" and the top suggestion was "do interns get paid?"
<zmoylan-pi> an occasional custard cream...
<diddledan> I'm assuming a custard tart is something NSFW
<zmoylan-pi> tescos do a very nice custard donut
<diddledan> the french refer to custard as "creme anglais"
<diddledan> as in "english cream"
<diddledan> one of my polymer webcomponents contributions: http://diddledan.github.io/validate-string/
<diddledan> a utility component
<diddledan> I even wrote a testsuite for it : http://diddledan.github.io/validate-string/test/
<diddledan> that was the first time I have ever done Test Driven Development
<diddledan> I impressed myself
<shauno> o/
<diddledan> I think I probably would have been bashing my head for longer than I did if I hadn't had the testsuite
<diddledan> allo shauno
<shauno> evening cupcake
<diddledan> how are you sweetheart?
<shauno> hm.  how come it only creeps me out when you do it
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> for some reason I come-across creepy no matter what I say - it's a gift I guess
<shauno> I'm panicking.  or packing.  I'm not sure what the difference is at this point
<diddledan> going away?
<shauno> kinda.  spending 3 days sailing offshore
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> will you be able to remain civilised (connected)?
<shauno> so my bag so far has socks and dramamine
<diddledan> if there's one thing you want when you're at sea, it's to be intertted
<diddledan> internetted*
<diddledan> you only need socks - other clothes are overrated
<shauno> just one of those "I should have put more thought into this" moments :)
<diddledan> may want something waterproof
<diddledan> e.g. a boat
<shauno> anyhow, projects .. my pi thing is gathering dust waiting for me to get the faceplate cnc'd
<diddledan> and probably a rubber ducky for when you fall in
<shauno> it mostly works, it just looks like it all fell out of a shoebox and accidentally worked
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> this does seem to be a trend with the pi though.  it's very difficult to do anything that doesn't look like a spider
<diddledan> a dead spider!
<diddledan> or maybe a colony of dead spiders
<shauno> I did get some pigtails to dress it up though.  that's helping a lot
<bashrc> morning
<shauno> evening bashrc
<daftykins> hrmm just ordered an Amazon FireTV stick for Â£20 delivered - should be fun for a tinker
<daftykins> especially with Kodi installed 8D
<shauno> hm.  pulled two chips and put them Somewhere Safe.  looks like I'll have to order new ones :(
<daftykins> damn.
<daftykins> that'll teach you for being careful!
<shauno> I took pics to keep track of which way around they went on the board.  I should have took one of where I put them!
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry, once you open the packet the new ones come in, you'll remember :-)
<ChunkzZ> is this a pure uk channel?
<daftykins> in what sense?
<daftykins> i don't think anyone demands proof of ID ;)
<ChunkzZ> lmao
<ChunkzZ> can anyone recommend a car for cheap insurance in the uk?
<intrbiz> ChunkzZ: http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/insurance/car-insurance-groups/
<ChunkzZ> yeah, not what I was looking for.
<daftykins> brb going to the insurance company next door for help with Ubuntu
<daftykins> :D
<ChunkzZ> hence why I asked daftykins no need to be an arse
<daftykins> oh that's what you meant by pure UK 0o
<daftykins> genuinely that was impossible to understand
<daftykins> anyway, calm down - it's called humour
<ChunkzZ> you're always doing it, funny humour.
<daftykins> ah relax.
<directhex> insurance groups are silly
<directhex> my chevy is a higher group than an identical-model vauxhall, which only differs by badge on the bodywork
<daftykins> heh
<intrbiz> one assumes there is more profiling involved that just the mechanics of the car
<shauno> bookies don't always offer 50/50 odds on a toincoss either.  almost exactly the same deal.  it doesn't depend on logical odds, it depends on the odds of "the house" losing money
<intrbiz> indeed
<intrbiz> or the reality that younger drivers are more likely to crash etc
<intrbiz> along with people who do it often
<daftykins> i could see directhex driving like Ace Ventura
<directhex> ._.
<DJones> daftykins: Erm, do you meam Driving Miss Daisy's chaufeer
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i have no data!
<shauno> we won't mention daftykins' driving, there was enough stitches last time ;)
<daftykins> was that of laughter or the ones in hospital
<daftykins> i don't actually have a driving license, never bothered
<shauno> you only need one if you get caught anyway ;)
<daftykins> not many places to run on an island ^_^
<shauno> I just got an odd mental picture of the police using the benny hill tune as a siren :|
<daftykins> i was told a great story the other day by a guy who had his parked car crashed into by someone
<daftykins> the police phoned him up and asked him to attend his vehicle, then the 18 year old copper tried to get him breathalised
<daftykins> for a parked car :>
<shauno> hmmm
<shauno> devil's advocate: the police don't know the car wasn't moving at the time, and want to rule out that he ran away for fault?
<daftykins> nah it would've been along the side of a narrow local street, where cars all park end to end
<daftykins> *one way street no less
<daftykins> but nah he went into the station and suggested the young PC be educated in the ways of not breathalising someone who was at home
<shauno> most my silly police stories are from the states.  like the one who showed up to bust a bride & groom for underaged drinking at a wedding reception
<shauno> which isn't the punchline!  his car got stolen while he was inside =x
<daftykins> the copper or the groom? :D
<shauno> the copper
<shauno> it takes a very special sense of humour to steal a policecar in a town of <1000
<daftykins> was it the Blues Brothers?
<shauno> no :(  just someone else who was drunk at the same party
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> (and yes, busted at their own wedding.  one of the sillier side effects of having a 21 agelimit)
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> the silliest one, naturally, being moving there at 20 and being told you're not old enough to drink anymore
<daftykins> that's pretty silly
<KrimZon> when I run "sudo lshw -C network", what does "*-network DISABLED" actually mean?
<KrimZon> as in, who or what disabled it and can it be enabled?
<KrimZon> I'm trying to get atl1e drivers to work for wired lan
<daftykins> is the interface down?
<KrimZon> i think so
<KrimZon> ifdown says the interface isn't configured
<intrbiz> KrimZon: what does `ip link` show as up / down
<KrimZon> lo up, eth1 down, wlan1 up
<KrimZon> oh... "sudo ifup eth1" responds "RTNETLINK answers: File exists" "Failed to bring up eth1."
<daftykins> http://serverfault.com/questions/601450/dhclient-what-does-rtnetlink-answers-file-exists-mean
<KrimZon> aha, fiddling got it to come up
<intrbiz> looks like eth1 has no link
<KrimZon> I gave too many things a gateway in /etc/network/interfaces
<KrimZon> oh it's forgotten its nameservers again
<KrimZon> I could've sworn I put them in the place where it'd remember
<KrimZon> I can't figure it out now either... does anybody know?
<intrbiz> KrimZon: dnsmasq or /etc/resolv.conf ?
<diddledan> first minute is some reminiscing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eu23_if6Lw
<KrimZon> actually, it's right in resolv.conf
<KrimZon> it can't connect to any non-lan IP now
<KrimZon> should "ifconfig" show the gateway if it has one configured?
<davmor2> we haz t'interwebz
<daftykins> diddledan: typical mac owners, icons along the finder bar as wide as the screen ;)
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> :|
<diddledan> wow, github's api is seriously rate-limited
<davmor2> popey: you are lucky I'm in Orlando and can't jump in my car ;)
<diddledan> 60 requests per hour for anonymous or 5000 for authenticated
<diddledan> that really sucky
<diddledan> means my fix might not be accepted :-( (https://github.com/PolymerElements/iron-doc-viewer/pull/25)
<ali1234> popey: i saw an interesting link on xubuntu mailing list today
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candle_problem#Glucksberg
<ali1234> specifically:
<ali1234> "turning the task into a competition for limited resources can create mild levels of stress"
<ali1234> "This stress response effectively shuts down the creative thinking and problem solving areas of the brain"
<popey> ali1234: where'd that come from?
<ali1234> which part?
<popey> just wondered why you pinged me about that
<ali1234> popey: because of that thing we talked about on PM a few months ago :)
<popey> you have a way better memory than me :)
<popey> also, combined with my terrible memory
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-21
<mapps> norn
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo , not great, and you?
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> brobostigon: it's my friday so I can't grumble
<brobostigon> :)
<Laney> quiet today
<Laney> is everyone else doing something fun that I don't know about?
 * brobostigon is installing the new pebble v.3 sdk.
<diplo> It's been quiet all week
<Laney> suspishus
<foobarry> we all moved to another chan
<MooDoo> #naughtystep is the new channel
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy I Need A Patch For That Day! ð
<czajkowski> salut
<JamesTait> Bonjour!
<bashrc> g'day
<JamesTait> Howzit!
<ujjain> hello
<ujjain> I'm hungover.
<directhex> i'm directhex
 * brobostigon is the brobostigon'ator.
<ujjain> i'm ujjain
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: So you didn't see that Horizon docu last night?
<TwistedLucidity> Scary stuff. Time we added alcohol to the Class-A list. Because we all know making something illegal works!
<popey> brobostigon: do you have a pebble?
<brobostigon> yes popey
<ujjain> I did not.
<ujjain> Yeah, works well.
<popey> brobostigon: i have the pebble time on order
<brobostigon> popey: cool, :)
 * brobostigon should try and write a pebble app for ubuntu touch.
 * bashrc never really saw the point of smartwatches
<knightwise> popey: I will never eat chocolate breakfast buns again.
<knightwise> your picture scared the crap out of me
<bashrc> I mean, I don't really need to know how many steps or heartbeats I've done since last tuesday
<bashrc> I don't particularly need to know the time in Japan
<bashrc> the number of times that I actually look at my watch per day is small, and mostly in the morning
<popey> knightwise: super
<popey> bashrc: none of those things are why I'm getting one
<bashrc> why are you getting one?
<shauno> that does seem a tad shortsighted though.  I mean, my old dumbphones were low-interaction devices that I didn't look at habitually
<bashrc> currently I change my watch battery maybe every six months. It's actually questionable whether a watch is useful to me at all, since I have other technology which can display the time
<directhex> bashrc: my fitness tracker has been life-changing
<bashrc> If you have a compelling reason to monitor your heart rate then a smartwatch might indeed be useful
<popey> bashrc: it's not about it being a timepiece
<popey> focussing on it being a timepiece is like saying smartphones are just phones.
<shauno> I'm just curious about "I don't need my watch to do anything because I don't look at it"  vs "I don't look at my watch because it doesn't do anything"
<popey> i almost never use phone to make a phone call
<popey> it's way more a 'pocket computer capable of making telephone calls' than 'phone'
<bashrc> yes I agree
<awilkins> Haven't changed my watch battery in 6 years
<awilkins> Mind, it's a CR2016
<awilkins> I took it in for a battery replacement and it was just loose
<awilkins> Still going strong
<awilkins> Largest battery in a watch I've ever seen
<awilkins> It's one of those Indiglo faces so I guess the large battery is for that reason
<awilkins> But the upside is that if you don't spam the backlight a lot it apparently lasts a very long time..
<popey> here's a good reason to get a smartwatch ã face generator https://plus.google.com/u/0/+Tom%C3%A1%C5%A1Hol%C4%8D%C3%ADk/posts/2VQWsZtq1jn
<popey> http://www.watchface-generator.de/v3/
<brobostigon> :)
<ujjain> does cashing a cheque cost money?
<directhex> paying in a cheque to your bank account doesn't cost money
<directhex> going to a dodgy payday loan shop and asking them to give you instant money from a cheque costs money
<ujjain> I signed up for a payday loan
<ujjain> half a year ago
<ujjain> for 50 pound cashback and maybe build some credit history
<ujjain> they never paid the cashback
<ujjain> appearently payday loan companies aren't the most reliable ones
<popey> haha
<popey> this is not news
<ujjain> I got screwed by a casino, taking away 93% of my winnings, Â£1500
<bashrc> was it 2500% interest?
<ujjain> www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67255 my story
<ujjain> I paid it back after 1 week, I actually think it didn't do much to my credit score, a 1 week loan :p
<ujjain> I have a credit card, but just not a long history on it
<shauno> I'm not sure you'd actually want a "payday loan" on your credit history.  they're usually pretty desperate, which isn't the position a lender wants to see
<ujjain> I was told you can't tell if it's payady or not
<ujjain> but yeah, you are right
<ujjain>  All credit reference agencies differentiate payday loans on your credit report. Theyâre in a different section, so underwriters (who make lending decisions) can tell how much and how often you've used payday loans.
<ujjain> I also read otherwise
<ujjain> http://experian.co.uk/consumer/questions/askjames375.html http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/questions/askjames246.html
<shauno> that second one seems to have all 3 positions :)  that paying it off would be a positive, that requiring it in the first place owuld be a negative, and that some lenders may not differentiate
<shauno> either way, personally I think they're predatory scum, and you're best off treating the episode as "lesson learnt"  (pure opinion)
<ujjain> Yeah, I agree.
<TwistedLucidity> ujjian: Use the credit card for web purchases (which is good practice), holidays etc and you will soon get a history. Bizarrely enough, you can have a "poor" rating for paying back loans/credit quickly; they don't make enough money
<foobarry> why do you need to build your credit history?
<TwistedLucidity> I have an extremely dim view of Experian and their ilk. I galls me that they create this problem for "credit history", which they charge companies to see, and then they want to charge *YOU* to view what is in essence your own data. And it's not a small fee either.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: You want a mortgage or to buy a car on a credit agreement? You better have history.
<foobarry> in general, yes
<popey> Experian are indeed terrible humans
<TwistedLucidity> If the fee for viewing my own data was nominal (say a couple of Â£ a month), I wouldn't mind. Server cost money. Last time I checked it was Â£20 or something, ridiculous.
<foobarry> i put all my spending on cc
<foobarry> even Â£3 lunch from sainsbury
<foobarry> then pay it off monthly
<foobarry> i do hear that credit scoring companies don't have all seeing eye on everything
<TwistedLucidity> Nah, I mostly used cash or DD. CC is for web and high-value. Mostly because Santander are a useless bank.
<TwistedLucidity> Really need to move accounts.
<popey> I don't own a credit card at all. \o/
<TwistedLucidity> popey: They have their uses.
<popey> sure
<popey> i used to have one, don't anymore
<TwistedLucidity> Great for web purchases. Using anything else is madness
<popey> quite happy not to
<TwistedLucidity> I was happy to have the CC once when I got stuffed at an airport with no cash and no access to my bank account. Called the CC hotline, explained the situation, had cash from an ATM in 15 mins.
<TwistedLucidity> This was overseas.
<TwistedLucidity> I was well chuffed.
<foobarry> i am Â£200 in credit with amazon
<foobarry> although i don't like those guys any more
<ujjain> why not?
<ujjain> I want to build credit score without a reason
<ujjain> because it's called score, would be nice to have it high
<ujjain> I was yesterday in chiswick, I opened the rightmove app, 1.7million for a simple 4-bedroom appartment, nothing special
<foobarry> they started moving stuff i buy into prime customers only
<ujjain> ah, my roommate has prime, so he gave me free prime, but sucks yeah :(
<ujjain> amazon prime is much money, especially since you probably would not use the media advantages and just the free prime shippping
<foobarry> and i buy 1 item a month max
<SuperMatt> ujjain: I pretty much get the value out of my amazon prime
<SuperMatt> if you order anything big, or regularly, it's worth it
<popey> yeah, i got a refund for the bit of prime I don't use
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: "score" is misleading. It's not like you get "99/100 credit points". It's more of a profile and different companies will assess the ratings differently depending on the product/service in question.
<popey> (the streaming video)
<ujjain> 170 orders placed in the last 6 months
<ujjain> wow
<ujjain> I think half amazon free apps though :P
<SuperMatt> In fact, these days, I tend not to order something unless it has prime
<ujjain> TwistedLucidity, yeah, I guess that's true
<SuperMatt> and with my lifestyle, I often require various items at very short notice
<popey> yeah, i do the same
<TwistedLucidity> I've found Amazon to bet getting less value-for-money.
<TwistedLucidity> We bought a BBQ recently. Â£210 on Amazon, Â£160 in Homebase. Go figure.
<ujjain> Yeah, I guess sometimes getting something locally can be cheapre, epsecially with poundlands
<ujjain> Yeah, IT equipment, shoes, etc, not always cheapest at Amazon
<ujjain> especially if you know what you want, specific brand, specific type
<TwistedLucidity> I also try to avoid Amazon due to their agressive accounting practices.
<TwistedLucidity> Same reason I try to avoid supermarkets
<ujjain> accounting?
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Sizes as well, with only a few expections (i.e. brands I already know) I would never buy clothing on-line
<ujjain> I bought 4 pair of shoes, arrived yesterday, have to send back 3, didn't like them, at least free returns.
<ujjain> Yeah, clothes online is always tricky
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Indeed. How shall I put this...tax limitations measures that whilst legal, one may find distasteful
<ujjain> I just don't enjoy clothes shopping at all
<ujjain> tax limitations = tax evasions methods?
<TwistedLucidity> A further example, Starbucks
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: No, tax evasion is illegal. I never said what Amazon did was illegal
<ujjain> oh sorry, I'm not an English native
<ujjain> like tax schemes
<ujjain> via Ireland etc, only paying very little
<TwistedLucidity> It's just...err...highly efficient.
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Bingo
<ujjain> Yeah, right
<shauno> I'm less fussed by the tax thing.  the way I see it, if I could legally get away with paying half the tax, I would
<ujjain> You might be able to, by becoming a contractor
<popey> Doesn't make it morally right.
<ujjain> but I think it's not very fair, that Amazon can make profits in the UK
<TwistedLucidity> I'd rather pay slightly more and have some reasonable certainty that cash was flowing to the Exchequer to keep the lights on, than save money on a purchase and have to see income tax increase to cover the tax loses.
<ujjain> and pay taxes on that UK profits
<popey> "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
<ujjain> in a crappy country
<TwistedLucidity> shauno: Good tax management is one thing (I offset some stuff against taxes). Creating company structures that are unreleated to business function simply to reduce tax...I find that unpalateable.
<TwistedLucidity> Problem is, where one crosses the line is hard to define. And HMRC are increasingly understaffed.
<shauno> and tax laws incredibly convoluted, else the loopholes wouldn't exist in the first place
<TwistedLucidity> So as the rich pay less and less tax, the revenues falls. This means the % that has to be raised from the rest of us (or cut from budgets) rises.
<TwistedLucidity> If people just paid their blasted taxes, we'd probably all wind up paying less in the long run.
<TwistedLucidity> Not that I like paying taxes.
<TwistedLucidity> I don't like dentists either, but I still go.
<ujjain> I don't know if there are tax loopholes for that rich though.
<ujjain> I have been trying to find tax loopholes for somebody making 300k, but I don't know if there are
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Of course there is. Usually done via trusts and LLPs via London as we have lax financial regulations.
<TwistedLucidity> The accountancy firms offer packages to make all this easy. Just ask Jimmy Carr. :-)
<ujjain> people who have used EBTs are very much ***'ed though
<ujjain> they are in very stressful situations now that last years, EBT's with loan schemes are very obvious
<ujjain> a lot of people at contractoruk who used them, have ended up regretting it they wrote
<TwistedLucidity> The idea of taxing the gross income rather then the profit is interesting, although that has issues for industries with very high costs and tight margins.
<ujjain> Limited company is not a tax loophole, only difference is the national insurance and expensing things
<ujjain> I would love that, I'm a contractor, I don't have much expenses either, I'd rather pay 5% on gross income, then 20% on profit, then pay dividend tax (same as income tax)
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: a ltd co isn't, nor is an LLP really. But they can be used as such. For starters, you can hide ownership with an LLP, and an LLP can own and LLP...
<ujjain> (same as income tax after calculating corporationt ax)
<ujjain> Yeah, maybe. But to me it seems that most people making 100k or 300k pay taxes, don't have that many tax loop holes.
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, 5% on the gross (or some figure like that) would probably be cheaper to collect. "Oh, you took in Â£200k last year. OK, where's our Â£10k?" Simples.
<ujjain> maybe I should marry a 18 year old student though, to pay less tax and make her 50% owner of the Limited company
<ujjain> and pay her 50%, that would be a nice tax saving
<ujjain> that's true, but seems to remove all room for companies operating on small margins, which are often the most effective companies
<popey> you dont need to be married
<popey> just have a partner in the company
<TwistedLucidity> I am sure there would be some way to contribute to Ubuntu/Linux/F-OSS that can be offset against tax
<TwistedLucidity> ujjain: I will happily colelct 50% to reduce your tax burden. :-)
<ujjain> can it be my little dutch brother living in NL? I don't think so though.
<ujjain> TwistedLucidity, you're a true hero
<Laney> risked washing up without using rubber gloves
<ujjain> I don't really know many people in the UK I trust that make almost no money though
<Laney> OH GOD MY HANDS
<popey> were you using caustic soda to wash your things up?
<popey> don't think I've ever washed up with rubber gloves. they feel weird.
<Laney> method washing up liquid
 * Laney is a sensie
<Laney> we had dishwashers for ages before moving in here which doesn't have one
<Laney> maybe my hands just need to get used to it again, never had to use them before
<popey> washing up is fun
<popey> drying up and putting away is the chore
<popey> always used to fight for washing up duty with brother
<Laney> you risk having your work rejected if you are the washer upper
<Laney> that makes me unreasonably irritated
<brobostigon> knightwise: is there a reason why, the download button on your podcast site, returns with a page not found error?
<ali1234> google have closed my youtube account
<shauno> tsk tsk tsk naughty boy
<popey> ali1234: how come?
<popey> did you close your G+ account ?
<ali1234> "repeated severe voilations of the community guidelines"
<popey> erk
<ali1234> the only thing i can think of is that i wrote this software: https://github.com/ali1234/ytsubs
<ali1234> so i'm wondering whether to go to the register with some story along the lines of "youtube forces people to use v3 API, then bans people for using it"
<ali1234> i can still share videos on G+ though
<shauno> why el reg?  why not something people still read?
<ali1234> i dunno what people read these days
<ali1234> register loves sensational stories
<TwistedLucidity> El Reg is the Daily Mail of the tech news world. It's also my guilty pleasure.
<ali1234> actually it looks like google has gone on a banning spreee
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Did you ever receive a notification of these "severe violations"? Sounds like the kind of thing they had said "You naugthy person" before weilding the ban-hammer
<ali1234> apparently a video i posted like three years ago was flagged as spam
<ali1234> this caused my account to be instantly closed
<TwistedLucidity> Three. Years. Ago. ?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> "This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy against spam, scams and commercially deceptive content."
<TwistedLucidity> And what was said video of?
<zmoylan-pi> was youtube g+ then?
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I think so, or the start of it at least
<foobarry> a tin of processed meat?
<TwistedLucidity> Hah!
<zmoylan-pi> so signing up to g+ seems to be biting people in the backside...
<TwistedLucidity> It's kinda hard to avoid. Meat-space me has managed it though.
<TwistedLucidity> I find G+ ugly and hard to use. SO I don't use it.
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: it was a picture stretched out to 1 hour, no audio, no description, no tags, unlisted video, and was only ever viewed like 3 times
<shauno> I try to avoid the Empire as much as possible
<foobarry> i have flagged some spam videos on yt
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: See? foobarry just confessed!
<foobarry> mostly ones that were a single photo and a link to amazon affiliate
<foobarry> supposed to be a review of a fridge/freezer
<ali1234> they are probably autodetecting that type of video now
<TwistedLucidity> That sounds like a silly/annoying video and probaby, unforunately for you, close enough to some kind of spam-crap-ola.
<TwistedLucidity> But to wait three years for the ban....whut?
<zmoylan-pi> or just letting the manufacturer of fridges who pays them more mark what they want as spam
<ali1234> yes, that's why i suspect that they went looking for a reason to ban me
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Sod 'em. Run MediaGoblin instead. :-)
<foobarry> sounds like an autoban
 * TwistedLucidity hears Kraftwerk
<ali1234> i'm not really interested in publishing videos anyway
<zmoylan-pi> put them on twitter now that tweets are showing up in google searches? :-)
<foobarry> make about 50 vines
<shauno> and duct-tape them together?
<zmoylan-pi> some app that takes the frames of video from pics tweeted under a hashtag...
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: How's synergy going these days? Not used it in a l-o-n-g time
<ali1234> don't know, i don't use it any more
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTUPkidackw
<TwistedLucidity> She is just so ^happy^ and ^perky^ with so much ^up-speak^.....
<TwistedLucidity> (^..^ indicates that a works should be spoken in a high-pitched squeak)
<ali1234> so essentially the issue here is that having a "deceptive" video = account closure
<popey> have you confirmed that's the case?
<ali1234> where 99.9% of all videos on youtube fit the definition of "deceptive"
<zmoylan-pi> there goes ever political broadcast uploaded to twitter... :-)
<ali1234> popey: there is no way to contact anyone at google and they don't give a reason
<zmoylan-pi> there is no one at google to answer your questions.  then they'd have to pay people for work they want computers to do...
<ali1234> popey: that guidelines video was posted less than two days ago, they've clearly gone on a banning rampage
<ali1234> this is possibly related to the postponement of the removal of collections
<popey> yeah, seems so
<ali1234> i bet their new thing uses metadata to generate automatic collections, and they found out that the metadata on all videos is terrible
<ali1234> so they discovered at the last minute that it was going to be awful
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Complain to the EU that Google is crushing freedom of speech. I am actually semi-serious. The EU seems to itching to kick Google in the conkers.
<TwistedLucidity> What I despise about YouTube is the way it suggests things I don't give two damns about and hides the things I want to watch.
<bashrc> amen
<TwistedLucidity> Does it remember that I watch every new "Scott Manley" video? No. But it will list about 10 "trending" categories and "Popular in UK" tripe that I couldn't care less about.
<TwistedLucidity> That channel I go on nearly every day? Not listed. Have to search for it.
<TwistedLucidity> So much for presenting the content I like.
<TwistedLucidity>  /rant
<bashrc> in my case the suggestions are nearly always worthless
<TwistedLucidity> It's like Amazone continuing to suggest an item months after you've already bought the exact thing. Pointless.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: is amazone like amazon at all :P
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: <insert witty retort here>
<davmor2> pfff
<diddledan> wow that metadata video is terrible
<diddledan> she comes across completely condescending
<TwistedLucidity> It's also discrimination. What if the uploader has dyslexia? INSTA-BAN!
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> I'm actually unfair to people online in a similar way - I like things to be spelled perfectly at all times (excepting obvious typos) so I moan at people who don't which means I might be offending someone who actually has difficulty spelling correctly
<intrbiz> diddledan: language is not binary
<diddledan> intrbiz: ineed
<TwistedLucidity> Or the language they are using isn't their first, leading to grammatical issues.
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> indeed*
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: another good point
<intrbiz> it's fecking grammar i wish we'd get rid of
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> "grammar nazi"
<TwistedLucidity> So long as the first and last characters are correct, the othre can appear in any order. It's still readable.
<intrbiz> and the usual teachers nonsense of 'english has rules' - go learn what logic is
<diddledan> yeah that research was enlightening, TwistedLucidity
<TwistedLucidity> English *does* have rules. The first half completely contradict the second half though!
<diddledan> intrbiz: English does have rules, but never adheres to them consistently
<diddledan> yeah what he said :-)
<intrbiz> rules with exceptions are f**king pointless
<diddledan> the problem is English is a frankenstein language
<TwistedLucidity> Also, English is not fixed. Not even in England, let alone Britain.
<intrbiz> indeed
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: It's a language of hybrid vitality. :-)
<diddledan> we've taken words from so many sources that rules which apply to some words cannot be applied to others because they came from a different source language
<intrbiz> sorry for the rant, being dyslexic, you get used to people moaning
<diddledan> intrbiz: you're entitled to be ranty :-) dyslexia-descrimination is actually one form of descrimination that isn't widely acknowledged so you have a right to encourage people to think about it
<TwistedLucidity> And some really daft rules. "The user log on at the log-on using their logon". ARGH!!!!!!
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: lol
<TwistedLucidity> "The user log*s* on at the log-on using their logon"
<intrbiz> i hate when people use 'he/she'
<diddledan> and as I said I'm guilty of do it :-(
<TwistedLucidity> They/Their
<TwistedLucidity> We actually do need a gender neural third-person (I think that's the one)
<TwistedLucidity> Or is it second?
<TwistedLucidity> Great. Now I'm confused.
<diddledan> he/she is a pre-op transexual?
<zmoylan-pi> there are a few out there but they sound forced
<zmoylan-pi> they are a preop transsexual
<TwistedLucidity> I use "one" alot more these days rather than "you". Actually make life easier sometimes as it's stops people thinking one means *them*.
<intrbiz> at least it is a neuter language
<TwistedLucidity> "Roads are feminine"? Really? Give me strength......
<directhex> most languages have gendered pronouns for all nouns
<directhex> so roads *are* feminine in french, for example. so are cars
<diddledan> haha: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/05/hackers-obscene-electronic-billboard/
<TwistedLucidity> I know. It makes no sense
<diddledan> hackers being bumholes
<intrbiz> shucks they pixilated it
<TwistedLucidity> I have an unpixelated link. How family friendly is this channel?
<TwistedLucidity> Or just use a search engine.....
<diddledan> the "assange shuffle collective" <-- they're lolsec reformed methinks
<diddledan> they're just doing it "for teh lulz"
<diddledan> and that page also tells us that "the Beryl Reid Appreciation Society was behind recent hacks against healthcare insurers"!!!
<diddledan> </out-of-context>
<TwistedLucidity> That's nothing, did some bloke hack the engine controls of a flying aircraft via the entertainment system?
<diddledan> yeah that story is complete idiocy
<zmoylan-pi> he says yes, the airplane manufacturers who have nothing to hide say no...
<diddledan> I believe he stated that he did it in simulation with virtualbox machines
<TwistedLucidity> "The Naked Scientists" claimed it had been done for real. I'll have to check the story
<TwistedLucidity> A VBox simulation is hardly the same thing
<intrbiz> on struggles to see why an infotainment system needs any connection to the fly by wire systems
<TwistedLucidity> It doesn't. But that doens't mean their isn't one.
<intrbiz> indeed
<intrbiz> i'm merely skeptical
<zmoylan-pi> well there was a network cable linking all the devices together and they were adding a multimedia player network...
<TwistedLucidity> "Say Bob, do we need two seperate networks and double the cabling?" "Nah, just bung it all down one wire to save weight"
<zmoylan-pi> we'll just use different ip ranges and no one will know...
<diddledan> from prior reading into similar stories it was pointed out that they should be separate networks but they still need a shared uplink to the satellite
<intrbiz> you'd hardly route realtime sensitve data feeds over networking for media with totally different use cases
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think that...
<diddledan> and then because the uplink is shared there is potential for cross-pollination
<intrbiz> personally more interested in the A400M crash
<zmoylan-pi> software glitch by the look of it
<intrbiz> yes
<TwistedLucidity> That the one where three engines shut down?
<zmoylan-pi> not good for a military aircraft
<intrbiz> yes
<intrbiz> not good for any aircraft
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Chinook?
<diddledan> I like the doomsday scenarios of the late 20th century (1990s) about the minellium bug - several films were made - "the clock has reset and the nuclear reactor doesn't think it's been installed yet so it's shut down the cooling"
<zmoylan-pi> an airbus plane meant to be the 21st century long range military jet transport for gear and troops instead of hercules jobbies
<intrbiz> IIRC the chinook had engine management software issues initially
<diddledan> wasn't there something recently about fighter jets crossing the international date-line?
<zmoylan-pi> also mucked up when raf bought them without radar as they wanted to fit their own then crashed one with all the military folk on board
<zmoylan-pi> the fighter jets is an old one, pre 2000 iirc
<diddledan> I recall it happening this year
<zmoylan-pi> windows for warships did/didn't disable a ship that needed to be towed home when someone typed in the wrong number depending on who you talk to
<zmoylan-pi> in falklands the british ship was hit by a french missile as no one had told the ship that the enemy was using french missiles and it wasn't a friendly
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oops
<zmoylan-pi> the south african aa gun was allowed to shoot any direction it wanted and that went badly wrong.
<zmoylan-pi> the anti missile system used in gulf war i was controlled by windows 95 and went slightly /wrong/ when it was run continuously for a few weeks
<intrbiz> if you read vulcan 607, or about hms conqueror, they were well aware that we were fighting against weapons which were not expected to fight against
<zmoylan-pi> there was a british torpedo test after wwii where the torpedo hit the ship that launched it
<diddledan> that was a movie
<zmoylan-pi> one moment... ::searching for actual ship::
<intrbiz> well conqueror sunk the belgrano using WW2 era MK8 torpedos, as they didn't trust the wire guided tigerfishs to work
<diddledan> that's probably why it got-through the belgrano's defences
<diddledan> they were expecting sophistication
<intrbiz> the belgrano was a WW2 era ship
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Tullibee_%28SS-284%29#Fourth_war_patrol_and_loss us sub lost to own torpedo.  still looking for british ship
<intrbiz> the belgrano was orginally USS phoenix
<intrbiz> hms conqueror was also the first and only nuclear submarine to sink a vessel at war
<diddledan> does that prove that we don't need nuclear subs? :-p
<nucc1> anyone know what package i need to install if my firefox looks like GTK2 ? :)
<diddledan> like "we don't need trident. we've never had to fire it so that proves it's not needed"
<zmoylan-pi> british ship lost to own torpedo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trinidad_%2846%29#Loss
<intrbiz> diddledan: conqueror was an attack sub, rather than SSBN, which would have been the resolution class subs at the time
<diddledan> intrbiz: yeah, I was off on a tangent
<Azelphur> What are the chances of me getting Ubuntu on this? http://www.tesco.com/direct/asus-transformer-pad-tf103cx-101-tablet-8gb-wi-fi-black/481-4428.prd?sc_cmp=tp4_aff_1018132
<intrbiz> diddledan: whether to keep the detterent is a long and complex argument
<popey> low Azelphur
<Azelphur> popey: aww, I was hoping the Intel chipset would make it somewhat easier
<popey> ironically not
<popey> windows tablets tend to be easier to do that to than android ones
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> shame really it's so cheap, Â£89 with a code and I have some tesco points too
<directhex> windows has a standard boot loader that ubuntu can handle
<directhex> android does not
<TwistedLucidity> A sad day when NTFSKrnl is freer than Linux!
<Azelphur> Someone needs to make a directory of kickstarter projects that are 100% done and ready to ship, so you have a feed of things you can buy that are cool.
<ali1234> virtually all projects on kickstarter can't be bought after they ship to backers
<ali1234> they just start up a new kickstarter
<ali1234> digital products are of course the exception to this
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> and my account is un-banned... for now
<ali1234> ooo, adblock made a browser for android
<ali1234> *downloads*
<Azelphur> ali1234: why not just use real firefox? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/?src=search
<ali1234> because firefox on android is absolutely awful
<Azelphur> uwot
<Azelphur> I use it as my daily driver
<ali1234> it's extremely slow, has an ugly UI, can't download files
<ali1234> and it crashes all the time
<Azelphur> works fine on my nexus 5, matter of opinion, I've downloaded many files with it, never had it crash iirc.
<ali1234> oh... this is firefox :(
<ali1234> i was hoping they forked chrome or android browser tbh
<Azelphur> ali1234: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=KRr6595g1QNBKdi no issues here
<ali1234> i'm going to factory reset my nexus 7
<ali1234> it's just got so slow it is barely usable
<Anne> hi
<Azelphur> hello
<Anne> How are you
<Azelphur> fine :)
<Anne> that's great :)
<intrbiz> FFS by broadband is currently getting 0.6Mb/s :((((
<diddledan> yeouch that's sloooow
<intrbiz> yeh, ridiculous
<intrbiz> been like it since about 18:00
<diddledan> can't blame windows updates this week
<diddledan> although there was a new win10 as of last night
<diddledan> I don't think that would account for your slowness tho - prolly not enough density of insiders to kill your local loop
<diddledan> blame your ISP :-p
<intrbiz> it's either an isp issue, or impact from FTTC work (I hope that is going on)
<diddledan> phone 'em up and moan
<intrbiz> with openreach one does not know what they do, very little it seems
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> openreach are supposed to be in charge of the wires I believe. they then sell use of those wires to BT and other suppliers (apparently they actually priorities other suppliers' fault reports over BT consumer to prevent offcom from saying they're prioritising anyone)
<diddledan> so bt gives bt a lesser service
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> the FTTC date there has been pushed back twice already, with no explaination or communication
<diddledan> sucky
<intrbiz> and no communication as to whether they will get it done by june (not sure if that is end or start)
<intrbiz> I somehow suspect not
<diddledan> a few years ago the town my parents live in "won" a BT competition to install fibre ahead of schedule as a promotion by having a "100%" of the town saying they want fibre. roll-on 2 years and they still haven't got it fully
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> nationalise openreach and rollout FTTP I say
<diddledan> here ya go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25722513
<intrbiz> diddledan: you hampshire way then?
<diddledan> yup
<intrbiz> shrewsbury got FTTC very early, mainly because most of the lines were so poor, people could barely get 1Mb/s on ADSL
<diddledan> so did basingstoke - that's where I am now
<intrbiz> right
<popey> evening slackers
<diddledan> allo
<czajkowski> popey: welcome back
<popey> bloke next to me on the train was playing solitaire on his phone
<popey> when he finished it I went "YAY! \o/"
<popey> he looked at me like I was odd
<popey> I said "I'm joining you in celebration of your solitaire win!"
<popey> *he* is the weirdo
<czajkowski> lol
<diddledan> popey: I think we should decamp to twitter to make his acheivement trending
<daftykins> popey: :D
<popey> hah
<daftykins> fun one about a flaw in lots of routers - http://thehackernews.com/2015/05/netusb-router-hacking.html
<daftykins> wow, malware/rootkits running on the GPU - that's a novel one
<awilkins> Getting 5.1 audio over SP/DIF to work on Ubuntu is a PITA, isn't it?
<daftykins> i wouldn't have thought so, if you have a good player that can just do the passthrough
<daftykins> assuming you're playing back content with a DD/DTS stream
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-22
<awilkins> daftykins, have got it working
<awilkins> daftykins, not passthrough AFAIK
<daftykins> so just getting stereo from 5 channels or decoding a surround audio'd film to it?
<awilkins> Watching Oblivion on Netflix in Chrome
<awilkins> Seems to have all the appropriate postitional noises
<awilkins> And bowel juddering
 * diddledan loses his bowels
<awilkins> Small "decode" light on my speaker console is lit
<daftykins> ah i don't know what Netflix'd do re: audio
<diddledan> yey for another ssl vuln
<diddledan> logjam!
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> because no vulnerability is worth it's salt without a catchy name
<daftykins> diddledan: gotta catch 'em all
<awilkins> The speaker test correctly makes the speakers speak
<diddledan> obviously I mean salt in the non-cryptographic sense :-p
<awilkins> Not tried a DVD yet
 * diddledan jams logs in the loo
<daftykins> is that this loo-owl i keep hearing of?
<diddledan> well I wasn't the one who mentioned bowel juddering!
<daftykins> awilkins: sounds like passthrough to me ^_^ aka bitstreaming
<diddledan> steaming pile of bits :-p
<daftykins> anyone ever try out ultraviolet btw?
<awilkins> Had to do this thing to PulseAudio to make it use the 5.1
<diddledan> yeah I use uv
<diddledan> but I'm on 'dows
<daftykins> same sir
<daftykins> if you buy a DVD only copy do you get the aitch-dee stream?
<diddledan> don't you love how "'dows" can be so easily misspelt as 'dos
<awilkins> All my vidya-rips are stereo because I made them for my tablet, I think
<daftykins> eww :D
<diddledan> no, a dvd will only give an SD digital copy
<daftykins> aww that's rude
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> it's ok i didn't buy a film, just thought about it up at the boss'
<daftykins> as i was adding some of his collection onto the file server today
<diddledan> because you didn't license it in HD when you bought the license in sainsburys - because we all know we license the movie on a dvd
<diddledan> having a physical disc doesn't mean we "own" anything
<diddledan> I've had good success with the bluray ripping thing
<diddledan> can't remember what it's called
 * awilkins plays a DTS 5.1 tet vid on Youtibe
<awilkins> Ok, that doesn't work properly
<awilkins> Front left also coming from rear left
<diddledan> makemkv
<diddledan> thassit I think
<awilkins> Maybe it's the browse as a player
<daftykins> yeah i have swapped out the libs on my HTPC with makemkv and that made Kodi play bluray
<diddledan> of course now we've got 4k bluray looks a bit blurray
<awilkins> Ok, so VLC correctly identifies this as a DTS file
<awilkins> But no sound
<awilkins> Gnnarg
<daftykins> did you enable Dolby digital 5.1 bitstreaming but not DTS?
<daftykins> that's the theory anyway, not the practice
<awilkins> I have a "Digital Surround 5.1" device
<awilkins> The "Advanced" tab with the DTS option box isn't enabled
<awilkins> Interesting. The DTS file blocks all the other audio
<daftykins> yeah bitstreaming typically owns a device
<awilkins> But it's silent
<daftykins> is your receiver capable 0o
<awilkins> It has a wee DTS digital surround logo on it
<daftykins> ah
<awilkins> This is a DTS-hd file
<awilkins> This may be the problem?
<daftykins> definitely
<daftykins> but typically those files still contain a DTS core audio track
<daftykins> so you need to disable DTS HD in VLC perhaps
<awilkins> Only one track in it
<daftykins> yeah they're kinda wrapped
<daftykins> run mediainfo on the file
<daftykins> my amp in the lounge supports DTS HD MA but the HTPC doesn't bitstream it, so i just get standard DTS films
<awilkins> So specs of thing say :
<awilkins> THX certified
<awilkins> Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding
<awilkins> DTS decoding
<daftykins> mmhmm
<awilkins> Mediainfo says
<awilkins> It's a BDAV file
<daftykins> o0 a 1:1 dump?
<awilkins> Format DTS / MA / Core
<daftykins> ah there you go
<daftykins> so you need to fight VLC to tell it your receiver doesn't support DTS HD MA
<daftykins> so that it falls back to DTS core
<daftykins> i don't use it so can't comment sadly
<awilkins> Oh, ok, I must have reset something
<awilkins> Had to poke pulseaudio to reset card
<awilkins> profile
<awilkins> 5.1 test vid is working so far
<awilkins> Cool, even the phase tests work
<awilkins> Ok, definitely capable of fivepointoneiness
<daftykins> \o/
<awilkins> Not sure this is the std. operating mode of Netflix though
<awilkins> Ok, so they mostly use pro-logic
<awilkins> Have pavumeter running and no difference between front and rear channels
<awilkins> Will try this movie from the DVD instead of the Netflix
<awilkins> But tomorrow, probably
<intrbiz> does ubuntu 14.04 use logind?
<awilkins> systemd-logind
<Azelphur> um...did we just have an earthquake or something?
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/search?q=margate&src=typd&vertical=default&f=tweets holy moly...I think that was an earthquake
<diddledan> nothing here in hampshire
<Azelphur> guess it was a small one that only hit thanet
<Azelphur> I'mma go check for damage I guess
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/bitcalm/status/601507792109707264/photo/1
<Azelphur> http://m.emsc.eu/earthquake/earthquake.php?evid=443215 yup, confirmed
<Azelphur> that happened o.O
<diddledan> 4.3 isn't very small
<diddledan> that's a reasonable size IIRC
<diddledan> certainly for britain
<Azelphur> yea was definitely a reasonable bumpe
<diddledan> about 18 miles from margate?
<diddledan> 23km apparently
<Azelphur> yup
<diddledan> looks like that page is still getting updated
<diddledan> it's gone from 2km depth to 10
<diddledan> and macroseimic intensity has changed from F(Felt) to IV(Largely Observed)
<diddledan> and depth is now 1km
<Azelphur> yea, definitely largely observed
<Azelphur> I have family and stuff all messaging me at 3am in the morning after being woke up by it, and my mates TV fell down.
<zmoylan-pi> at what point does facebooks send a status in an emergency situation kick in? :-)
<diddledan> I think this should qualify
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if the no to gay marriage in ireland will see this as a /sign/
<diddledan_> well it was a sign of something
<daftykins> whoa it shook so hard diddledan got cloned
<diddledan_> heh different pc
<daftykins> ;]
<Azelphur> lol
<diddledan_> trying to get the latest win10 on the other one
<zmoylan-pi> his bunker pc with a years worth of food and internet... :-D
<daftykins> ah yes i just installed that new build
<daftykins> it trashed a lot of things for me
<daftykins> blank start menu tiles, spartan kept becoming the default browser even when changed to FF
<daftykins> very odd indeed
<diddledan_> I tried it earlier but hit the issue of install hanging at 18% that the twits have been moaning about
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> Roald Dahl never meant for them to have computers, after all
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/601566306731593728
<diddledan_> that's what I'm trying right now
<diddledan_> it's prepareing right now
<diddledan_> --e
<diddledan_> finally got win10 installing
<diddledan_> I had to uninstall "apple device support" or the winusb packages (I actually did both so can't say which was the culprit)
<diddledan_> winusb is the usb drivers for interacting with windows phones
<diddledan_> daftykins: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFlLIOTWIAEMvJU.png
<daftykins> i just passed my cat on the stairs, her leaving the bedroom, me heading to it
<daftykins> unsure what her plan is, could be dermur
<zmoylan-pi> cat is going to find a place to sleep in the sunrise
<daftykins> could well be
<zmoylan-pi> cats do not waste sunbeams... :-)
<daftykins> that made me think of the Nirvana track/cover Jesus don't want me for a Sunbeam ~
<diddledan_> the sun is only useful for sleeping under
<diddledan_> yey! build 10122 is installed!
<zmoylan-pi> for a cat sleeping in the sun or in a really warm spot means they don't need to waste energy warming themselves.
<daftykins> ten wan tutu
<diddledan_> my internet connection: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFlC3BCVAAA8qWm.jpg
<daftykins> Mischief doesn't need to either, she curls up to me and steals my heat
<daftykins> are you Matthew Broderick by any chance?
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> yes. yes I am
<zmoylan-pi> so you're merely a mobile warmspot
<diddledan_> I found a cool game server the other day
<diddledan_> it thinks I'm some dude by the name falcon
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i'm putting that on my CV
<daftykins> ok nn guys \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> it's early yet
<daftykins> a night in the pub gave me the alearm clock effect yesterday
<daftykins> i actually woke up O_O
<daftykins> now i've ruined it by being up again
<_1_Mansfield> hi
<mapps> hi all
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> Azelphur: intents don't work in firefox for android
<diddledan> o_O
<ali1234> (still, after four years)
<diddledan> ooh, that's fun
<diddledan> ms surface pro 3 with ms edge browser - drawing on webpages
<andrewebdev> Is there _any_ way to make ubuntu alt-tab behave sanely when using multiple monitors?
<nucc1> define sanely
<andrewebdev> (busy ... :) )
<andrewebdev> I have multiple terminals and windows open at the on two monitors, when I hit alt tab, I'd like the order to be prioritized for the current monitor
<andrewebdev> or is that hoping for too much?
<nucc1> it is ordered by recently used
<andrewebdev> It makes it really hard sometimes to get to the actual window I'm looking for, without using the mouse, especially with multiple terminals open, cause they then get grouped up even
<andrewebdev> looks like I'm not the only one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2211863
<andrewebdev> maybe I'll try that, but I really didn't want to install the ccsm
<nucc1> lol
<nucc1> you don't want to install the tool that will give you what you want.
<andrewebdev> no need to be patronizing ... I'm just asking if there something built into unity to disable the window grouping, without having to install extra stuff.
<nucc1> i'm not patronizing you. you may realize that silence usually means "I don't know". but then, you found a tool that probably does just what you want, and then "you don't want to install it". Pardon me if I find that funny.
<andrewebdev> np, I'm just reluctant to "keep installing" stuff just to make the core system be more usable. To me that feels like windows
<nucc1> the whole idea of apps is that you install those that you want/need
<nucc1> and as you can imagine, not everyone is dissatisfied with the default alt-tab behaviour
<nucc1> I personally never found it wanting, but then, I don't use it much. I use the mouse for pretty much everything
<andrewebdev> As a keyboard user the current alt-tab behaviour is infuriating
<andrewebdev> ... that said
<popey> uh
<popey> ccsm is what you need
<andrewebdev> if there are no way to do this using default settings then I'll install ccsml
<nucc1> popey: he found it, he he. he just wants to argue that it should be part of the default suite of apps in ubuntu
<popey> I know
<popey> I'm re-iterating it's what's needed
<ali1234> i recommend xubuntu :)
<andrewebdev> I just didn't want to bloat  my system that's all :)
<nucc1> ali1234: another funny one. Because that ships with ccsm by default?
<ali1234> no, it doesn't even use compiz
<nucc1> andrewebdev: let me guess, your system has 8G of RAM perhaps? and you run CCSM and quit it. How is that bloat?
<ali1234> if it was installed by default, how would it be less bloated then if you installed it manually?
<andrewebdev> ...
<nucc1> bloatâ¦ unless you're so poor that you can't afford a better machine, that is a very lazy complaint
<ali1234> the bloat *is* starting to get out of hand...
<nucc1> you can get a computer today that will run default ubuntu and a ton of other apps you can throw at it for less than 300 quid
<ali1234> but it's not really the fault of ubuntu
<nucc1> there were people who argued that the GUI was bloat
<ali1234> firefox is the worst resource hog
<nucc1> ali1234: you open 200 tabs and then complain that it is using too much RAM.
<ali1234> nah, they've fixed the ram problems
<ali1234> the problem now is that background tabs keep running loads of javascript
<ali1234> there's no good reason for that; background tabs should be paused
<nucc1> it's not a mobile phone
<ali1234> unless it's a music player, but those could be whitelisted
<ali1234> it will be in a couple of years
<popey> there are plugins for that
<diddledan> chrome is the main offender of background processes
<ali1234> remember all that "phones can run a desktop now" talk?
<nucc1> ali1234: the reason phones behave like that is to conserve limited battery. of course it would be nice for desktops to behave like that, because it's more efficient, but that is not quite the same thing as bloat
<ali1234> sure it is
<nucc1> well, as you said, you have a ton of options
<nucc1> plugins, different browsers etc.
<ali1234> there's really only two browsers and neither of them is known for efficiency
<nucc1> it helps to remember that the resources on your computer are meant to be used.
<popey> hmm https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/05/21/help-test-changes-to-new-tab-in-firefox-beta/
<nucc1> popey: which plugin?
<popey> nucc1: I'm using chrome, there's a few
<nucc1> i use opera :), but lemme know the names so i can know what to search for
<nucc1> the only time i actually value this kind of functionality is when i'm running off battery
<popey> just search for suspend tabs
<ali1234> https://hg.adblockplus.org/suspendbackgroundtabs <- removed from mozilla app store
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Donât Fry Day! ð
<andrewebdev> well there we go... ccsm crashed my desktop just now attempting to enable another window switcher
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Morning. Remember that video about YouTube and metadata? Remember how it also said that one should be careful of the thumbnail one chooses? Nothing too provocative etc?
<ali1234> andrewebdev: yeah it does that, everything should just start up again with the new options you set
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: yes i remember it
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Well, imagine my surprise when I switch on the TV and was greeted by a massive pair of boobs thanks to YouTube ("The Barber" movie trailer). Someone really should report that.
<TwistedLucidity> Think of the children!
<nucc1> TwistedLucidity: the kids are probably unconcerned with it. it's your dirty mind playing tricks on you.
<nucc1> unless they were bare of course :p
<popey> wow, that tab pausing extension made a massive difference
<diddledan> does ubuntu phone do tethering?
<popey> it can
<diddledan> is it a manual commandline thing or has the ui caught-up?
<popey> both
<diddledan> lol
<popey> there's a command line way and there's a separate app which can do it
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> I spotted that the bq device is listed as dual sim so I thought maybe I might plop this month's excess on it
<bashrc> cool
<popey> I see rumours of another device coming soon
<diddledan> the meizu?
<diddledan> or a third?
<bashrc> I'm thinking of maybe getting a bq phone as a secondary phone for development
<bashrc> I'll stick with android as my main phone OS for now, because it has all the secure messaging apps
<popey> a third
<diddledan> ooh
 * diddledan goes to omgubuntu to see what the news is
<bashrc> potentially I could develop some messaging apps for ubuntutouch, although it would be a long process because I don't have much time to do that kind of stuff
<popey> diddledan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices last one on that list
<diddledan> the WorkInProgress list?
<popey> right at the bottom
<diddledan> VegetaHD?
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> yes it would seem so. John is a member of the canonical devices team
<diddledan> curiouser and curiouser :-p
<diddledan> aha the github gives away alot
<diddledan> i.e. the manufacturer and device name
 * diddledan wonders if this is the high-end device mark mentioned in the UoS the other week
<popey> don't think so
<diddledan> it's got some pretty amazing specs
<diddledan> for the price
<Myrtti> wheee
<diddledan> ello Myrtti
<Myrtti> turned the home server on finally
<Myrtti> well, back on
<Myrtti> dishwasher decided to protest me fiddling in the undersink cupboard few weeks back, relocating the extension cord it was plugged to, tripped the power in the whole house a few times and then went on melting and fusing its plug to the extension cord
<Myrtti> decided to keep sensitive computing gear off until repairman came and assured us the house wasn't going to burn
<diddledan> Myrtti: it's trying to kill you, like arnie would
<Myrtti> possibly yeah
<Myrtti> we've also had an IKEA puzzle to assemble
<Myrtti> which is still ongoing
<Myrtti> fun times.
<nigelb> Myrtti: Heh, I've discovered that you can never assemble furniture without getting halfway and realizing you did something wrong initially (and having to start over)
<Myrtti> our only problem is that it's huge
<diddledan> said the actress to the..
<nigelb> Oh dear. what is it? A bed? Dining table?
<Myrtti> set of four Pax wardrobes taking a whole wall of the main bedroom
<Myrtti> 3x50cm and 1x100cm
<nigelb> wooooo
<Myrtti> we've assembled the frames, but haven't attached anything to each other or the wall yet.
<Myrtti> just fiddled with the order they're in last night, installed few of the inbuilt led strips and decided which doors to put where
<directhex> i'm waiting on an IKEA delivery
<ujjain> I'm planning to visit the USA for 9 days. If I could visit 3 cities... New York - Las Vegas, and?
<directhex> they didn't have what i wanted in stock in MK
<Myrtti> directhex: we went there three-ish weeks ago, realised the frames and doors wouldn't fit our Volvo and went and ordered online, as the delivery charge was the same either way. As a bonus got extra set of soft closing hinges - they're included in the price when shopping online but have to pick and pay separately in store
<Myrtti> they've got their online whatamajig in Peterborough. It's a shame they don't do click and collect there.
<ujjain> what does gbp hedged mean?
<foobarry> context
<ujjain> iShares S&P 500 GBP Hedged UCITS ETF
<foobarry> do you know waht hedging is
<popey> is it like cottaging?
<ujjain> I thought a hedge funds was a "risky" funds
<foobarry> thats not the definition
<foobarry> hedging is when you take a position that reduces any potential loss
<foobarry> its an insurance
<foobarry> e.g.
<directhex> hedge funds are funds where you'd get a beter return by just shoring your money in a hedge
<directhex> storing
<directhex> or shoving
<nucc1> shoring works too :p
<foobarry> ARM get a lot of income in international markets, but they are a UK company
<ujjain> GBP hedged means they make sure they don't get screwd if the USD value goes down then
<foobarry> their profits depend on the strength of pound
<directhex> there's a reasonable chance the damage to your cash by wildlife is less than the damage to your cash by hedge fund managers
<foobarry> so they would trade in FX markets to ensure they hold a position in USD to offset any large swing either way that would reduce profits
<foobarry> or an emotional hedge...
<foobarry> i support arsenal, so i might bet on chelsea winning the league
<foobarry> i offset my emotional loss (arsenal losing makes me sad) by a financial gain
<foobarry> :)
 * arsen must improve highlight regex
<foobarry> if arsenal win then i don't mind losing the stake i put into the chelsea bet
<arsen> can't keep coming back here to find i've been highlighted for 'cottaging' ;)
<ujjain> ah lol
<arsen> the idea behind a hedgefund is a portfolio of hedged investments, so that whatever happens, you should make just above market growth. combine that with huge funds (multi-billions), the profits are significant, though range from losses up to around ~17-18% for the best in the world.
<arsen> investment A might make me 15%, but if it doesnt, investment B will cover it and return me 5% instead.
<foobarry> but there is a safety net in theory
<foobarry> to reduce masssvie swings up or down
<foobarry> its like putting a chip on a black number in roulette
<foobarry> but also poping a chip on red too
<ujjain> ah ok, I don't think I'll take a hedged fund for Europe or US, although US dollar might evaluate (opposite of devaluate)
<arsen> the fund you pasted looks like S&P hedged against sterling
<arsen> so that works on the premise that one of them is gona do well.
 * bashrc hedges against hedge funds
<ujjain> makes me wonder if I pay currency conversion costs if I make a ETF S&P 500 purchase.
<arsen> not a bad investment, if we have no further financial crises
 * foobarry puts his house on the red square
<bashrc> that's got to be a losing bet
<arsen> typically, investing in the S&P isnt a bad shout, the mark of a good hedgefund is one that can continually beat S&P
<arsen> for example: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-22/hedge-funds-underperform-sp-7th-year-row-here-are-their-top-holdings
 * arsen goes back in his box
<ujjain> Yeah, but the majority of funds does not beat the market
<ujjain> if you also claculate the cost of the fund itself, so yeah
<ujjain> I'm going for a long-term passive investment anyway, I don't want to waste my free time on thinknig about this too much
<ujjain> maybe I should just invest all my money 1000x hedged in a company
<ujjain> 1000x leveraged*
<awilkins> So : 5.1 working nicely ; if I switch outputs away from the 5.1 the output disappears from the Sound config panel and I have to set it with a pacmd manually
<diddledan> m00
<zmoylan-pi> mÃº?
<diddledan> Î¼
<diddledan> (I had to google to get a copy+paste :-p)
<zmoylan-pi> all irish keyboards have Ãº...
<diddledan> Ãº isn't Î¼
<zmoylan-pi> true but it does alter the pronounciation of the u
<dutchie> it's not even a u
<dutchie> more like an m
<nucc1> there's a way to automatically choose a uk mirror for apt right?
<popey> you can force which mirror you want, yes
<popey> i find the .de mirror is faster than the UK one
<Myrtti> I just use the "choose the fastest" tool
<popey> that too
<Myrtti> "select the best server" that is
<popey> germany usually wins for me
<Myrtti> goscomb for us
<popey> oh yes, that one is good too
<nucc1> so how do i do that?
<nucc1> somehow mine is retrieving files from us
<nucc1> US
<brobostigon> i find the ocford uni mirror to be very fast.
<brobostigon> oxford*
<Myrtti> nucc1: "software and updates"
<Myrtti> "download from:" "Other..."
<nucc1> Myrtti: thanks :)
<Myrtti> "Select Best Server"
<nucc1> i wish this thing chose the mirror based on locale :)
<nucc1> it chose goscombe for me.
<nucc1> pity their ISP stuff is too expensive
 * diddledan just installed owncloud
<nigelb> diddledan: It's pretty nice.
<nigelb> Though, I've had issues with Android sync which I haven't been able to pin down.
<diddledan> huh? ms are being rumoured to buy crackberry?!
<diddledan> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/is-microsoft-about-to-buy-blackberry--1294712
<nigelb> They will serve the enterprise market gloriously.
<TwistedLucidity> If you can't build a good product, destory the competition
<brobostigon> as steve jobs vowed to do to google.
<brobostigon> i mean, like he tried to do to google.
<diddledan> so a colleague just got php to talk ntlm2 by making it pretend that it talks ntlm2
<diddledan> he just fiddled with the flag that it embeds in the stream to say "yo I is totally a v2!"
<bigcalm>  /ignore-on-twitter popey
<diddledan> oh? is he twitting?
 * diddledan fires-up the twittle
<bigcalm> diddledan: he's trolling me, nothing out of the ordinary
<diddledan> popey: +1
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> I am so not
<bigcalm> Missread n as h
<diddledan> I could try freaking shauno out by agreeing that popey is so hot
<popey> heh
<diddledan> shauno: are you at sea yet?
<diddledan> I take that as a resounding yes
<diddledan> obviously shauno sits around waiting for me to mention his name when he's not at sea
<zmoylan-pi> the ferries claim to have wifi though how sucky it is is another story
<directhex> "X has wifi" is generally code for "X has a single 3G MiFi, shared amongst all users"
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much.  though the ferries between uk and ireland have tried to up their game to compete with cheap airlines.  i do miss the hydrofoil service they had in 80s.  that looked coolest.
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: seacat?
<zmoylan-pi> it's fast but not as exciting
<directhex> or hoverspeed.
<directhex> both companies died about 10 years ago
<zmoylan-pi> hovercraft were seriously cool but once the chunnel came along...
<zmoylan-pi> they wouldn't work on uk ireland route well enough to be reliable.  ditto northsea...
<zmoylan-pi> both the russians the usa operate large landing hovercraft, the rest of the world seems to have given up on the tech sadly
<intrbiz> the hydrofoils on lake garda were pretty neat
<zmoylan-pi> my mother was a fan of the dublin -> liverpool run as the weather made it really exciting
<ali1234> what's the best london transport map for android tablets?
<diddledan> ali1234: is there not a TFL app?
<diddledan> the oracle says: http://www.london24.com/entertainment/top_5_london_transport_apps_on_iphone_and_android_1_1180640
<ali1234> this is the best one https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jamsoftltd.tubeassistant
<ali1234> teh TfL one is rubbish
<diddledan> how do you get owncloud to recognise filesystem changes that it didn't make itself
 * diddledan maps mappps mapping
<diddledan> popey: you've thrown a spanner in the works, haven't you! I can't decide whether to wait around for the potential secret sauce suggested by the workinprogress list in the wiki or drop a ton on the currently available e4.5
<diddledan> e4.5 - not to be confused with a beauty cream
<ali1234> wait for goku
<popey> haha diddledan
<davmor2> Back to a real timezone soon \o/
<zmoylan-pi> paris time \o/ :-D
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: more the fact that I'm in orlando currently and will be so happy to be home now :D
<jpds> http://www.ubuntu.com/ - cool.
<diddledan> oooh
<DJones> Hmmh, does that mean popey has "00" status, "008 3/4 Licenced to thrill"?
<diddledan> ergh http://www.networkworld.com/article/2923882/opensource-subnet/ubuntus-shuttleworths-call-to-arms-in-open-source-stirs-up-controversy.html
<intrbiz> diddledan: 'ergh' at the statement or article?
<daftykins> what the KDE guy says makes sense
<diddledan> it annoys me that ubuntu seems to be the new whipping boy
<intrbiz> how competition works in regards to open source, seems somewhat taboo in the open source community
<diddledan> as in the boy that get a royal flogging
<intrbiz> diddledan: success = get whipped
<diddledan> mark sums up well with "live and let live"
<daftykins> it would be nicer if competing plans weren't made though
<intrbiz> frankly it's ironic for mr shuttlecock to argue that we should all band together
<intrbiz> for two reasons, a) that is not what he has practised, and b) (more importantly) people don't work that way
<intrbiz> if we accept that competition (ie: forking in open source parlance) creates better results, then his statement is somewhat misguided
<intrbiz> in addition I wouldn't have said that ubuntu get adversely criticised, when you consider its size
<intrbiz> Bryan Lunduke's Linux Sucks talk is an interesting listen
<diddledan> its time for me to snooze. nn
<diddledan> ill try to remember to look him up tomorrow
<intrbiz> IIRC Bryan Lunduke works for suse these days
<daftykins> says right there on the page
<intrbiz> hehe, tech me for skim reading everything
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> not fond of this guy, watching the Linux sucks 2014
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> that was my reaction at first
<daftykins> he does say to hold on for the second half though XD
<intrbiz> hold out to the second half
<daftykins> so i can let most of it slide, just not how 'muricans can't even pronounce ubuntu
<intrbiz> it kinda explains the concept of the talk
<intrbiz> once you dial back your rage, it makes sense
<intrbiz> he's a bit jeremy clarkson IMHO
<daftykins> i bet even he wouldn't like that comparison :>
<intrbiz> which one
<daftykins> maybe both
<intrbiz> IMHO he is being deliberately inflamatory to demonstrate our internal biases
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-23
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<halt2> hi all, I made a huge mess with my laptop, and working on it now, I resolved quite a lot already, but now I'm stuck a bit, so i have an encrypted lvm volumes, and I managed to delete all my kernel version, so I reinstalled the kernel and updated the grub, but the grub can't mount the root lvm volume due to the encryption, how should i edit the boot options to ask for the unencryption ?
<halt2> btw i did the kernel re-installation with a live usb disk and chroot
<MooDoo> morning all
<bashrc> morning
<penguin42> oh that's a fun spam, I wonder what they do with it.  It's an html attachment that's a copy of a form from BT's website with just a shange in the form action to another site
<popey> morning
<penguin42> hey popey
 * popey is cooking some spicy potato wedges
 * penguin42 has just had breakfast
<popey> got some left over stuff in the fridge
<popey> thinking of cooking it all up and freezing for later
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> craack some eggs into the potatoes
<czajkowski> yummy
<mappps> hello;
<MartijnVdS> hi
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/tomdale/status/601930842726772736
<diddledan> windows 10 seems busted today
<directhex> diddledan: fine here. i hear it's broken on radeons
<diddledan> directhex: build 10122 with an updated applied last night?
<directhex> oh, just 10122
<diddledan> I can't work out what update installed last night but when I turned-on today it said "updates were installed" and now I can't get any modern app to stay open more than one second (including the start menu and cortana)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nice
<diddledan> makes a very useful brick tho
<directhex> in fairness modern apps were super fragile for me on 8 and 8.1 too
<directhex> just use the issue reporter! it's a nice modern app in the default start menu!
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> yeah. 1) no start menu. 2) the reporter app won't stay open long enough to report anything
<brobostigon> if your in town tonight, beware, the brobostigon'ator and his gf are painting the town red, lolz 2.1.1
<brobostigon> sorry.
<directhex> i remember going out in the evening. before we had a toddler.
<popey> haha
<popey> we're just getting to the point where Sophie can babysit
<popey> soon
<diddledan> who's eurovisioning?
<diddledan> I'm wondering when conchita is gonna sing
<popey> o/
<intrbiz_cr> o/
<popey> she briefly did at the start
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> not the awesome song from last year tho
<intrbiz_cr> well the interval music is the best act, can I vote for that
<diddledan> intrbiz_cr: yeah I thought that too - it was epic
<diddledan> I liked the russian tho
<diddledan> sorry about the delay - we're having issues witht the internet here at my parents
<diddledan> bt fttp
<intrbiz_cr> hehe
<intrbiz_cr> my internet keeps crapping out too
<intrbiz_cr> I wonder what impact eurovision has on european internet links
<penguin42> intrbiz_cr: You mean the sudden peak in access to everything else?
<intrbiz_cr> hehe
<penguin42> http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/kitchen-appliances/tefal-toast-n-egg-toaster/11074447.html      that's probably pretty good
<intrbiz_cr> penguin42: but is it a talky toaster
 * zmoylan-pi hands intrbiz_cr a hammer and waits for the talkie toaster to be dealt with...
<intrbiz_cr> :)
<penguin42> intrbiz_cr: It doesn't seem to offer the option to chop the toast into soldiers for the eggs
<zmoylan-pi> they'll try flogging robots with genuine people personalities next!!
<intrbiz_cr> but can they master ambivelance
<zmoylan-pi> meh... :-P
<popey> penguin42: it is not dualit therefore it is not the one true toaster
<penguin42> popey: You've not got a dualit have you?
<penguin42> our toaster must be about 20 years old, isn't a dualit, but still works pretty well
<penguin42> after a repacement knob was put on since it's down lever broke
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<SuperEngineer> I got my 1st smartphone this weekend [not a BQ Ubuntu though]
<SuperEngineer> Samsung Galaxy GT5830 [hmmm]... but Â£20 - full, legal & honest
<SuperEngineer> [surprising what you get as rewards for helping people ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..but what worries me is it is destroying my reputation as "luddite" :D
 * SuperEngineer researches cyanogenmod
<marshmn> hi; setting up a laptop which has no physical ethernet and the WiFi card doesn't seem to get picked up by default (I guess it needs some proprietary driver)
<marshmn> am I best trying to get the WiFi working whilst in the 'live' USB boot - or should I just install first without network and worry about sorting the WiFi after?
<marshmn> (if it matters either way)
<daubers> lo
<penguin42> marshmn: Any idea what the wifi is ?  lspci should tell you some
<marshmn> actually, don't worry about it... I managed to find a USB network adapter lying around...
<marshmn> that probably makes things easier :)
<penguin42> ah good, which ubuntu are you installing that it didn't find the wifi?
<marshmn> 15.04 64 bit
<marshmn> just running off the live USB right now
<marshmn> WiFi looks to be "Broadcom Corporation BCM4352 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter (rev 03)"
<penguin42> yeuch
<marshmn> :(
<penguin42> I seem to remember there's a firmware thing, but I'm surprised 15.04 didn't have it
<marshmn> when I go to the 'Additional Drivers' section in system settings, it lists the device but just says 'this device is not working'
<marshmn> I can install from the USB device for now
<marshmn> will need to figure out how to solve that at some point
<penguin42> marshmn: If you're incredibly lucky an update will get pulled in that will fix it, but dont bet on it
<marshmn> ah, now I was able to activate it in the additional drivers in the end
<marshmn> looks to be working now
<marshmn> at first I didn't see that there were options below if I scrolled
<marshmn> since it's crazy small scroll bar on silly hidpi display
<marshmn> ok, all working on WiFi now
<marshmn> many thanks
<marshmn> now to try and understand what the hell all these 8 partitions are that the machine came with configured...
<marshmn> penguin42: so, just FYI, the WiFi driver was included on the 15.04 live USB - it just didn't get activated by default
<penguin42> marshmn: Can you see if there's already a bug filed for that - if not there should be one
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-23
<mappps> urgh
<mappps> getting hot again
<mappps> makes sleeping hard
<knightwise> morning everyone
<popey> morning knightwise
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> SuperMatt: what makes you SuperMatt do you wear your pants on the outside and always wear a lycra top with SM on it :D
<SuperMatt> davmor2: I couldn't possibly tell you any of my super secrets
<zmoylan-pi> do you at least have an arch nemesis? if not is there an application process? :-)
<SuperMatt> Currently I have no arch nemesis, except my own laziness
<bashrc> GNU/Morning
<bashrc> here's a question: is there an image build system for Ubuntu Touch? Could I make my own flavour?
<foobarry> anyone tried cloudready the chromebook alternative
<SuperMatt> link?
<SuperMatt> oh, it's like a chromium version of chromebook
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> hmmm, cloudready might be able to breath some life in to my crummy laptop
<Switches> Morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> SuperMatt: your own laziness is always the biggest nemesis
<SuperMatt> always has been and always will be
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I mean I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony but then that would mean doing something so I'll leave it for tomorrow and blame JamesTait for every global disaster that happens ;)
<SuperMatt> that sounds like a truely sensible plan
<zmoylan-pi> not enough sticks to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony
<Switches> Wouldn't be sticks you needed.
<zmoylan-pi> with nails in them of course
<Switches> Well that might work
<zmoylan-pi> though with a nick of switches you might be biased :-P
<Switches> lol
<popey> Have put a post-it note on the outside of the front door "Hello DHL! I am _in_! Please knock loudly :) "
<Switches> pmsl
<Switches> popey: Way to go!
<popey> bet I still get carded
<zmoylan-pi> today the illiterate dhl delivery guy is on your route, no i don't know how that works either :-)
<Switches> Probably you know what they are like.. be thankful it's not Yodel
<popey> true
 * popey <3 DPD
<Switches> Hmm this wallpaper in Fedora 24, is it the same one as 23? either way it's bloody horrible imo, bland as hell
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Lucky Penny Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> well as a euro user let me give you my 2c :-P
<zmoylan-pi> except i can't as we now round to nearest 5c... haven't seen a 2c coin in a while
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-rB0pHI9fU
<knightwise> morning peeps
<foobarry> tried out the cloudyready thing , the fan was a bit busy
<foobarry> doesn't seem much lighter than , say elementary
<knightwise> Tried Cublinux yet ?
<foobarry> it does what it says on the tin though, its basically chromiumbook
<foobarry> nope knightwise
<popey> seen http://www.chromiumosforsbc.org/ ?
<knightwise> give it a whirl, its also a pretty good attempt at a light and neat lin distro
<knightwise> Oooh !
<knightwise> now THIS i have to try out
<foobarry> felt a bit dirty giving all my credentials to the computer
<foobarry> at first login
<foobarry> obviousl it's needed to get all your chrome plugins
<foobarry> but never felt comfortable tying my login to an email account
<zmoylan-pi> it's a horrible idea in windows when it then constantly logs you in to your email account
<selinuxium> Hi all, any perf gurus about? I have a server where the load is steadily climbing... According to perf swapper is using 87% of the cpu-clock
<foobarry> what does top say?
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: yet its a default if you run windows 10 (and not work with a local account
<selinuxium> top is just cycling trough the usual.
<foobarry> selinuxium: also use the < > keys to discover high memory usage
<foobarry> from top
<selinuxium> foobarry: there isn't high continuous CPU/MEM...
<selinuxium> My load is only at 9.75 across 16 cores... But it is usually around 2
<penguin42> selinuxium: If swapper is using a lot of cpu that's not good
<penguin42> selinuxium: What does the line in top that starts with KiB Swap:   say ?
<selinuxium> penguin42: KiB Swap: 16777212 total,   180548 used, 16596664 free. 13279320 cached Mem
<zmoylan-pi> i decoupled one mates laptop from his email account and windows did an update and recoupled it.  he's not a fan.  just bought a chromebook ironically. but now he uses 2 email accounts one for chromebook and seperate one for his email which he keeps logged out when not in usee
<penguin42> selinuxium: So you're using a little bit of swap, but not much -   you could use vmstat   to see if you're actually swapping a lot
<selinuxium> penguin42: I will give it a go...
<foobarry> iostat to check heavy io too
<foobarry> knightwise: have you used sublinux?
<foobarry> cub*
<foobarry> whats the performance like?
<knightwise> cub
<knightwise> pretty sweet
<knightwise> well made , and spiffy fast
<foobarry> based on 14.04
<knightwise> yep , i believe so
<selinuxium> penguin42: foobarry: vmstat   ---->  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16631086/
<selinuxium> penguin42: foobarry: iostat ----> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16631118/
<Switches> Hmm that Cub Linux is what used to be Chromixium then. Downloading now :p
<knightwise> Switches: correct
<penguin42> selinuxium: Hmm ok, so you're not swapping
<penguin42> selinuxium: Well, apparently you're machine is pretty much idle and twiddling it's thumbs with an occasional burst of IO
<selinuxium> Which is what I thought...
<knightwise> maybe its just another hard working member of a russian pornbot network ?
<selinuxium> So... why the high load? Why is perf saying that swapper is using 87.67%... Driving me nuts!
<penguin42> selinuxium: There have been bugs before with swapper going nuts
<selinuxium> penguin42: Nope.... Well... 13 days ago I had a kernel oops. Other than that...
<selinuxium> perf report ---> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16631192/
<penguin42> selinuxium: Is this a VM or real hardware?
<selinuxium> penguin42: VM
<penguin42> hmm
<penguin42> selinuxium: I wonder if this is just an artifact
<penguin42> selinuxium: I think the native_safe_halt is just when the CPUs are going idle
<selinuxium> penguin42: Possibly. :)
<selinuxium> penguin42: I am still at a loss as to what is keeping the load average so high...
<selinuxium> comparatively speaking
<penguin42> selinuxium: try iostat -x
<penguin42> selinuxium: load is 'processes trying to run' so not just CPU time, but also waiting for IO
<selinuxium> penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16631275/
<penguin42> that seems boring as well
<selinuxium> Yup.
<selinuxium> All just strange...
<selinuxium> penguin42: Thanks for being an extra set of eyes...
<Switches> Cub almost set up in a VM lets see what has changed since Chromixium (apart from the naming)
<amunizp> bashrc: I disconnected before I saw an answer. Can a flavour of ubuntu touch be made? both techicslly and legally i Guess? what was the answer?
<DJones> amunizp: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu-touch as well about that, although somebody like popey might know the answer to that
<popey> amunizp: yes, there's already been another flavour
<zmoylan-pi> yes but popey has new toy to play with today... :-)
<DJones> Just like the genie in aladin, mention his name & he appears
<zmoylan-pi> beetlejuice, beetlejuice...
 * DJones raises on beetlejuice & mentions pinhead
<davmor2> candyman, candyman, candymamppppgffffff
<DJones> Jack Torrence from The Shining
<foobarry> dilbert looks weird. i'm scared
<DJones> So does the marshmellow man from from ghostbusters
<davmor2> DJones: so do the various reincarnations of the joker and two face
<DJones> Except for Jack Nicholson, he just looked silly
<foobarry> guest artist week.
<davmor2> DJones: silly, weird just different views of the same image
<DJones> True
<zmoylan-pi> rebooted batman from 60s version
<DJones> There's only ever been 2 tv films/episodes that have given me nightmares, one was an episode of space 1999 where something like a squid sucked people in and spat dry husks out, the other was Quatermass & the pit
<DJones> I was under 12 at the time
<zmoylan-pi> quartermass was brilliant
<foobarry> quatermsass me too
<foobarry> and the shining
<zmoylan-pi> they should so reboot that
<foobarry> and psycho 2
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Yeah, he could have been the new doctor who if given a chance/reboot
<foobarry> i was about 7
<penguin42> DJones: Oh that was just the locust-like people in Quatermass wasn't it
<penguin42> DJones: Disappointingly there is no Hobb's lane station
<DJones> Hmmh, just looked at the original release date for quatermass & the pitt, 1959, I must have been watching a repeat that was 15 years old
<DJones> 1958....
<zmoylan-pi> there are a few quatermass films that i liked... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Quatermass
<DJones> Oh the era or real british scifi/horror :)
<zmoylan-pi> wobbly sets and lots of tinfoil... still gave us daleks...
<DJones> Kids today don't know the real meaning of scifi & horror and using your imagination
<DJones> For most kids, horror is being chased by a zombie in minecraft
<zmoylan-pi> 50000 hammer horror movies can't be wrong :-)
<penguin42> Dr Phibes anyone?
<DJones> Out of interest, what would you say were the best scifi/horror stories when you were growing up, for me scifi would be e e doc smiths lensman series, and horror/fantasy would be brian lumley's necroscope series
<zmoylan-pi> growing up my first sci fi was hitch hikers on tv, then the book.  then when i started reading sci fi stainless steel rat, asimov, heinlein, clarke
<zmoylan-pi> i reckon i still have read less than 1/2 of what asimov published...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'm dyslexic so mine went films Starwars, star trek, tv lost in space, land of the giants, and then onto audio versions of war of the worlds, lord of the rings, hobbit etc
<zmoylan-pi> c4 on sundays had a lot to answer for :-)
<davmor2> c4 man I'm going back to when there were only 3 channels
 * penguin42 never read much; 2001 and Rendevous  were about the only things I read; HH, Space 1999, Star trek, lots of stuff
<zmoylan-pi> rendevous with rama... that first book...
<knightwise> READ space 1999 ?
<zmoylan-pi> i think there were a bunch of books
<knightwise> loved rendez vous series, 2001 series,
<knightwise> a lot of star trek and star wars (reading)
<knightwise> didnt know they had novels on 1999
 * knightwise is curious
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Space:_1999_books_and_other_media
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen them in second hand books shops.  never tried them...
<davmor2> pffff books
<diddledan> I spit on your books!
<zmoylan-pi> yesterday i found my first star trek 'lego' in second hand market... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/734445823656886276/photo/1
<DJones> Shouldalso mention Heinlen etc as classic scifi
<zmoylan-pi> apart from starship troopers very unhollywooded
<foobarry> my wife asked me to watch avengers..ultron on saturday for date night
<DJones> Can't really think of a movie that has done justice to the original historical book
<foobarry> overdosed on crummy cgi in the first five minutes but endured till the end
<zmoylan-pi> 2001 but that was made as the book was written... :-)
<DJones> My favourite scifi movie is Silent Running
<foobarry> davmor2: silence of the lambs?
<foobarry> sorry i meant DJones
<DJones> foobarry: Still think the original book was better
<zmoylan-pi> hewey dewey and louie... really brilliantly done for silent running.  have the dvd...
<foobarry> shawsahnk?
<foobarry> the fog?
<DJones> Never seen that
<davmor2> foobarry: is that I ate your books with some father beans and a nice chianti
<foobarry> also we have "better" and "accurate"
<foobarry> apocalypse now, bladerunner
<DJones> Apocalyplse now the movie was good becvause of the music, bladerunner wasn't a patch on do android dream of electric sheep
<DJones> (Excuse the spelling, starting to have warnings of a seizure)
<diddledan> :-(
<zmoylan-pi> 300 was a good make of the book... :-)
<diddledan> DJones: be safe
<foobarry> most things made from a stephen king short story
<DJones> diddledan: Yep, brain scan & MRI over the weekend
<foobarry> shawshank, the fog, misery,
<foobarry> at the opposite end of the scale is catch22
<foobarry> great book, schoking film
<zmoylan-pi> i still like the film
<DJones> Was misery the one where shehulk breaks ankles?
<diddledan> yup
<DJones> Hmmh,didnt enjoy that
<diddledan> I winced when she hobbled him
<foobarry> didn't enjoy it
<diddledan> I really didn't see it coming
<diddledan> I'm cringing right now thinking of it
<DJones> Yep
<foobarry> i had a disagreement with the size of hulk
<foobarry> in avengers. he seems massive
<foobarry> she said the 70s series didn't have massive hulk due to lack of cgi
<foobarry> i need to check size of hulk in comics
<zmoylan-pi> for me hulk is 70s lou ferringo... ::walks away:: slow piano playing... :-)
<foobarry> hmm he does seem big
<diddledan> puny God
<foobarry> http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/3/50/4bb639715543a/portrait_incredible.jpg
<foobarry> he's not that big here though
<foobarry> i actually hate comics(except beano)
<zmoylan-pi> my comic was 2000ad... judge dredd, rogue trooper, stronium dog...
<mappps> hi
<diddledan> I can't print on Tuesdays: (legit!) bug #255161
<lubotu3`> bug 248619 in file (Ubuntu Karmic) "duplicate for #255161 file incorrectly labeled as Erlang JAM file (OOo does not print on Tuesdays)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248619
<penguin42> my favorite bug
<zmoylan-pi> reminiscient of the 500 mile email... http://www.unix.com/war-stories/238965-500-mile-email.html
<diddledan> haha, that 500 mile email is class
<zmoylan-pi> have you ever had to track down an intermittent bug like that, can drive you bonkers
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> I'm well past bonkers having done a few nutty bugs
<zmoylan-pi> you learn first don't trust what the user reports and log everything
<diddledan> got someone in #wordpress who says "nothing has changed" .. "everything stopped working"
<diddledan> somehow those two statements seem orthogonal to me
<diddledan> did I use the right word there?
<diddledan> contradictory?
<penguin42> talking of weird bugs; there was one mentioned a few days ago; Windows 8.1 uses a lot of CPU if the username contains the word user
<popey> hah
<penguin42> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3053711
<foobarry> good solutio
<popey> brilliant
<penguin42> I bet there were things like testuser or projectoruser or something
<diddledan> is github experiencing problems right now?
<diddledan> https://status.github.com/
<diddledan> that suggests the error rate has shot-up
<bashrc> github is down! To the lifeboats!
<bashrc> oh it's back again, but certainly slower then usual
<diddledan> app server availability has dropped from solid 100% to around 95% now
<diddledan> I guess they did a roll-out of code in the past hour or so which caused issues
<diddledan> they're reporting that there's a database issue now - which they're investigating
<diddledan> why am I subscribed to this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/llvm-defaults/+bug/1584089
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1584089 in llvm-toolchain-3.6 (Ubuntu) "Segfault of __thread varaible in Linux/ARM due to bug of LLVM ARM code generation" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<m0nkey_> k.. so my ubiquiti router just rebooted twice
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> m0nkey_: awesoem!
<m0nkey_> not awesome
<diddledan> m0nkey_: I haxxed j00 :-p
<diddledan> </bare-faced lies>
<penguin42> diddledan: Probably because you were subscribed to another bug that got duped to it
<diddledan> there aren't any dupes that I can see
<diddledan> the reporter is who subscribed me (according to the notification email)
<daftykins> hmm not sure if these work in this old macbook i have: nt2gt64u8hd0bn-ad
<daftykins> seems identical to http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/macbook-3%2C1/CT7932255
<maukiwi> Hello everyone, I consider myself to be an advanced GNU/Linux user and I am going to do a fresh install of my ubuntu on my laptop. This laptop has no CD and I will use a usb to boot. I have UEFI enabled and I don't have windows on this machine. When I first installed this ubuntu it was 14.04 and now I have 16.04... but I don't think I am really having all that ubuntu 16 can give... my question is... to install 16.04 from a USB do I have to do any tric
<maukiwi> k to get UEFI working properly or do I have a mature support by now? I am afraid to start the process and some how lose my files in the home partition due to an unexpected fail to install...
<daftykins> maukiwi: EFI has been fine since 12.04 so no, no trick... just dd the ISO onto the drive and it'll be good. With regard to data, you should really have an off-system backup regardless of if you keep the same /home partition or not
<maukiwi> Thank you daftykins, I will do.
<daftykins> best to confirm it truly is a separate partition, too :)
<maukiwi> Yes it is... I will do a off-system backup of that partition... I have been passing that partition from distro to distro over the time and now it is time to delete some .app folders with old configs... I will keep just what really matters
<daftykins> *nod* i would probably copy everything off, then only bring back in what i need :)
<maukiwi> Well I think that is safer... Ok, cheers !!!
<daftykins> np
<davmor2> maukiwi: uefi and secureboot are both supported on ubuntu on 64bit
<davmor2> maukiwi: you can also use Disks and Ubuntu Usb Creator to create the bootable usb pen drive
<maukiwi> The way I did back in 14.04 was dd the iso to the usb, Then entered in the BIOS (UEFI) mode and selected the legacy mode to boot. did the installation and after that I re-enabled UEFI mode... It did'nt allow me to boot, so I kept legacy mode for a while... one of the updates it said that there was a ubuntu UEFI mode that could be loaded and right there in the update-manager it gave me the option to change from legacy to UEFI. when I reboot it was real
<maukiwi> ly changed to UEFI so I didn't touch it.
<daftykins> just boot the flash drive as EFI, what brand is the system?
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/lphyklT.gifv
<maukiwi> HP Pavillion Sleekbook 15
<daftykins> might be F8 through F11 for a boot menu then
<zmoylan-pi> i thought f10 on hp...
<daftykins> i felt like i'd seen it vary but yeah
<zmoylan-pi> they do like to changee things around to see if you read the 'read me first' documentation :-)
<maukiwi> OK, cheers!!
<diddledan> it's F11 on my UEFI mobo, but as you say it varies
<daftykins> anyone got any thoughts on a good bagless cylinder vacuum?
<diddledan> daftykins: preferably one without a bag
<daftykins> that'd be bagless ;D
<zmoylan-pi> just make sure you can buy filters into the future as i bought one bagless hoover that they stopped making filters for
<diddledan> I wonder how to get firefox on ubuntu to support the DRM plugins
<diddledan> it might not be possible at all, I guess
<diddledan> specifically: "Adobe Primetime is available on Windows Vista/7/8/10 for both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Firefox. Google Widevine is available for Windows 7/8/10 and Mac OS X 10.9/10.10/10.11 for both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Firefox."
<diddledan> that suggests no
<zmoylan-pi> adobe... that will end well...
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> replace one closed-ecosystem with another
<zmoylan-pi> 6 million updates and nothing on... :-)
<Switches> Should be enough warning with just the "Adobe" name attached to it
<zmoylan-pi> think how things would improve if we could convince them to make viruses... :-P
<Switches> rofl
<Switches> I thought they already did..
<diddledan> well they'll not be very good viruses
<Switches> Flash is a virus isn't it? :p
<zmoylan-pi> but they'd be industry standard viruses...
<diddledan> they'll let bad guys use them as a vector for their own viruses
<diddledan> and then we'll have virus-squared
<zmoylan-pi> but you'd see tonnes of popups and acceptance boxes before the virus did anything giving you time to deal with it
<diddledan> who remembers that adobe flash application runtime thingy that allowed flash to run outside the browser?
<diddledan> flex?
<diddledan> it's now gone to where all proprietary things go t die: the apache foundation: http://flex.apache.org/
<zmoylan-pi> and not inside a pdf file?...
<diddledan> it's still getting updates?!
<diddledan> last news item 11apr THIS YEAR!
<zmoylan-pi> the malware must get through!!
<diddledan> the runtime was called "air"
<diddledan> flex is the framework
<diddledan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_AIR
<zmoylan-pi> ouch... windows phone below 1% of markey... how much did ms spend on it again? http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/23/11743594/microsoft-windows-phone-market-share-below-1-percent
<diddledan> 1 beeleon?
<diddledan> 7 beeleon?
<diddledan> something like that
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was a bit more
<zmoylan-pi> $8b just buying nokia
<diddledan> that was what I was trying to quote
<zmoylan-pi> and that's not counting money on all the wince, pocketpc, winmobile variants
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh but that doesn't count what they gain from Nokia patents, and pouring some of the same stuff into the tablet code
<zmoylan-pi> i think they have a licence to use the nokia patents but not to sell them.  i'd need to check on that
<zmoylan-pi> nokia still owns most of nokia...
<zmoylan-pi> there are now 3 nokias.... ms-nokia, nokia-nokia, hmd-nokia
<diddledan> MS recently divested itself of some of the old nokia stuff
<zmoylan-pi> hmd-nokia is now the dumbphone nokias
<zmoylan-pi> ms-nokia is still trying to push lumias but now without the nokia name on them
<zmoylan-pi> and nokia-nokia just bought alcatel and can if they so chose use nokia name on phones next year
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<popey> sebsebseb: pong
<sebsebseb> popey: you got it?
<popey> yup
<sebsebseb> ok how is it?
<sebsebseb> popey: also does the hardware make a difference. I mean really Ubuntu touch has always been a bit slow I guess on the 4.5, the mx 4, and the m10 as well
<sebsebseb> seems the hardware is a bit overkill for the OS, but is it really?
<popey> It's quite a bit quicker
<sebsebseb> how do you notice the speed differences?
<sebsebseb> popey: how's Gold colour as well :d.   I think it's slilver on front gold on black, like the MX 4 I didn't get
<popey> sebsebseb: white front, silvery/pink back
<popey> sebsebseb: just feels faster, faster to launch apps, faster to swipe etc
<sebsebseb> popey: silverly pink back oh? I thought you got the Gold one? I thought Gold was the only Ubuntu  version for sale for now as well?
<popey> its called gold
<popey> but it doesn't look gold to my eyes
<sebsebseb> oh
<popey> box says "Color: GOLDEN"
<sebsebseb> popey: ok you got the right box :d
<sebsebseb> popey: I got a invoice that said Gold  on it for the MX 4, but a box that said Silver.  however that seems ok now. since that means I got MX 4 in Silver, which looiks like many poples iphones though uh.  but then when I buy Pro 5 some time later on this year I guess,  I'll have the other colour on the higher end device
<popey> and now ... bed
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-24
<mapito> hi
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> hey guys
<JeffH> Hi - looking for a decent ubuntu laptop - any ideas would be great!
<JeffH> or suggestions...
<zmoylan-pi> do you want it shipped with ubuntu, dell do laptops with ubuntu, don't they?
<zmoylan-pi> removes a lot of guesswork/research
<knightwise> JeffH: i have the dell xps13, Its very decent
<JeffH> I guess o - have found a company called Entroware which ships lappies with Ubuntu - would be good to hear from someone who has used them
<JeffH> Dell XPS13 - from the Dell site?
<knightwise> Correct but you have to be sure you have the developer edition ,
<knightwise> comes with ubuntu
<knightwise> or you can go with a thinkpad , they come with windows but ubuntu runs very well on them too
<knightwise> JeffH: i did a review on it (podcast) http://knightwise.com/kw1006-reviewing-the-dell-xps-13/
<JeffH> Nice! I'll take a look.. cheers all!
<knightwise> no prob :) Good luck
 * zmoylan-pi shares cut of dell money with knightwise :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: :) hahaha
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Escargot Day! ð  ð
<knightwise> We'll have a a snail of a time!
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's a reach but in a good cause https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViftZTfRSt8
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'll give you that one. ð
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDkp7GysvbY this one is better the uploader didn't play with it :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: I thought it was good one :)
<foobarry> !lts
<lubotu3`> LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise sorry miles away :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is always this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B3TN2rEckQ
<diddledan> the tron 2 soundtrack is epic
<diddledan> could be the best bit of the movie
<davmor2> diddledan: that's not fair there was that really nice bit at the end.......no no after that.......no no after that........no no you know right at the end where you see the scrolling names it was such a relief to see that :)
<diddledan> lol
 * zmoylan-pi has more than 1-2 movies on dvd that i got just for the soundtrack... ::glares at hackers::
<knightwise> The tron soundtrack is amazing
<knightwise> Hackers .. great soundtrack too
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: hackers is so bad that it's awesome
<knightwise> Listening to the audiobook of hackers at the moment
 * zmoylan-pi looks at watch and sees it's almost time to hack the planet \o/
<knightwise> Love that movie
<knightwise> the guy who plays dade is the same guy who plays sherlock in "elementary"
<diddledan> plus it's got Angelina's Jolies
<zmoylan-pi> flash gordon for it's superb queen sound track
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: heck yeah
<knightwise> Inception
<knightwise> and 'the adjustment bureau'
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: and a cool brian blessed cameoish performance
<knightwise> angelina jolie was horrible with that bobcut in hackers
<knightwise> she looked like a homesexual lesbian
<diddledan> knightwise: can you get heterosexual lesbians? :-p
<knightwise> good question
<foobarry> she looked like a funny looking teenager in the way that many teenagers do
<foobarry> they most spoddy and meh looking girls at school blossomed into beauties in their 20s
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> http://www.stickyday.com/top-20-celebrities-as-teenagers-can-you-recognize-them/4/
<knightwise> i rest my case
<foobarry> you mean http://www.stickyday.com/top-20-celebrities-as-teenagers-can-you-recognize-them/1/
<foobarry> hmm that jay-z picture looks like north london
<foobarry> yes its london
<foobarry> can an in-law vote by proxy?
<foobarry> or just blood relation
<SuperMatt> I think anyone can vote bu proxy
<SuperMatt> http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/how-do-i-vote/voting-by-proxy
<SuperMatt> there's no stipulation there
<foobarry> hmmm i usually do postal vote by default but looks like i have to fill in another form on this occasiona
<SuperMatt> "You cannot be a proxy for more than two people at any one election or referendum, unless they are a close relative."
<foobarry> nope, i do have a postal vote \o/
<SuperMatt> so anyone can proxy anyone, but you can only be the proxy for more than 2 people if you're close relatives
<foobarry> re-read that and it makes sense
<davmor2> NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO   KATO is dead :'( RIP Burt Kwouk   man suck to be a celeb this year
<foobarry> :( worst one yet
<diplo> Didn't even know who he was :)
<davmor2> diplo: you've never seen the pink panther
<diplo> maybe a long time ago, not enough to remember him obviously :)
 * davmor2 slowly shakes head at diplo 
 * Seeker` bans diplo until he has seen the pink panther again
<davmor2> Seeker`: no need just tut and shake your head slowly he'll get the point ;)
<sebsebseb> hi
<diddledan> poor KATO: http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/total-recall-1990-kuato.jpg
<diddledan> https://media.giphy.com/media/4YRVJZKtyzbyM/giphy.gif
<davmor2> sebsebseb: hello
<sebsebseb> davmor2: hi
<popey> yo
<zmoylan-pi> not now you fool... :-(
 * zmoylan-pi goes to add the pink panther movies to my media player...
<sebsebseb> popey: ping
<sebsebseb> who's here?
 * popey is just popping out
<popey> ttfn
<Switches> cya popey
<sebsebseb> popey: ok
<sebsebseb> Switches: nice getting the first part of my Jolla tablet re fund soon it seems
<Switches> :D
<sebsebseb> however I am wondering how it's best to use that money once got it
<sebsebseb> Switches: they will pay me back in dollars on Pay pal
<Switches> Should be converted then?
<sebsebseb> Switches: well I got Humble Bundles I want to buy for example
<sebsebseb> and that's in dollars
<sebsebseb> with pay pal currency doesn't really matter anyway
<Switches> True
<sebsebseb> Switches: however I can send the money from Pay pal into my bank account
<sebsebseb> tried that earlier this month with something else
<sebsebseb> first time
<sebsebseb> then I guess it matters, how much the dollar is worth compared to the pound
<Switches> Yeah, just takes a while to set up, or atleast used to. I have had my account set up for taking money from and paying to it for years
<sebsebseb> Switches: it's just there now, you get credit
<sebsebseb> Switches: credit in the sent currency,  or may even be asked if wanting it in pounds
<sebsebseb> on Pay pal
<Switches> Ohh cool
<davmor2> sebsebseb: you gonna treat yourself to an m10 instead?
<sebsebseb> davmor2: already got one, but it's the white HD
<sebsebseb> davmor2: might get the black FHD at a much later time
<diddledan> which do folk recommend for adblocking: adblock (getadblock.com) or adblock plus (adblockplus.org)?
<zmoylan-pi> ublock is what i use
<zmoylan-pi> ublock origin as there is a second not so good variant
<diddledan> yeah, that's what I use in chrome
<diddledan> this is for edge
<davmor2> diddledan: just install a decent browser and done ;)
<diddledan> well yeah
<diddledan> there is that option
<diddledan> but I'm somewhat masochistic :-p
<davmor2> diddledan: oh in that case just use w3m
 * zmoylan-pi hands out the sticks...
<diddledan> dear god man! there's masochism and then there's THAT!
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1mcsko/adblock_edge_vs_adblock_plus_is_adblock_edge_is/
<davmor2> diddledan: yeah but you get no adds :P
<davmor2> diddledan: use wget and read the html? I mean w3m is a doddle :P
<zmoylan-pi> lynx in green and black for maximum geekiness
<foobarry> is the "best" adblocker the fastest, most privacy friendly, or more effective at blocking ads?
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's the one that hunts down the company that paid for the ads and hits them with a stick till they stop...
<zmoylan-pi> we'll have to wait for it till a standard for a keyboard that electrocutes idiots becomes common
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: HID-Compliance standard - for making the user comply
<zmoylan-pi> i'd settle for making them suffer...
<diddledan> crazy max's hairy highway is surprisingly tense
<diddledan> what can I buy with about Â£9.30 from amazon?
<penguin42> that's a very specific about
<zmoylan-pi> gummi bears?
<diddledan> well I got a 10Â£ voucher to spend and I was thinking of getting https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000LATMQW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3PUL0HK47UUUS
<diddledan> which leaves Â£9.34
<Myrtti> tried a recipe from the new Hairy Dieters book. Szechuan chicken stir fry or something like that, 10/10 would recommend. If you've got a pressure cooker and a slow cooker, it's got recipies for those too.
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: nope doesn't sound intersting enough to me
<Myrtti> fair enough. We've got all the Hairy Dieters books.
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: maybe with quorn chicken peices it would a bit, but those aren;t that nice.  yes I went veggie :d
<Myrtti> this promises to have recipes that take 30 minutes or less active cooking time, so it had immediate appeal
<Myrtti> sebsebseb: they've got quite a few vegetarian recipies in there and replacement suggestions too, noticed one that called for either smoked bacon or smoked firm tofu
<Myrtti> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: yeah there's  alterantives for bacon and things like that
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: even fish!
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: I had vegan fish and chips at the weekend,  at a big event for vegans etc. and wow that really did taste like cod from what I remember
<daftykins> yawn veggie :P
 * sebsebseb thinks going vegan or mostly, would be easier if lived in a place that actsaully sold the kind of products that were there at the weekend, but no that isn't the case.  and I put mostly since vegan milk is well a bit uh really, I got a sweet tooth etc, milk shakes yum :)
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yes veggie, not vegan though :D
<sebsebseb> daftykins: if you ever tried any actsaul proper vegan products, well some taste awful at first, but I guess just need to get used to that more
<sebsebseb> yawn daftykins :p
 * daftykins continues nomming a Lamb curry
<daftykins> hi Mr.Chatty
<sebsebseb> Mr chatty me ?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: Well you can have my animal-free chocolate sorbet recipie
<sebsebseb> penguin42: yeah I got some like veggie fudges in a packet as well and rassbery something sweets to, not tried any of those yet though
<sebsebseb> veggie I meant vegan
<zmoylan-pi> i give sherbert fountains to our vegetarian dm as they are animal free
<sebsebseb> vegan wagon wheel altenratives two of them even, again not tried yet
<penguin42> hmm
 * sebsebseb would have come back with a load more vegan food I expect, if it hadn't been so pricy compared to well usaul food
<zmoylan-pi> wounded cabbages are hard to capture subdue...
<penguin42> sebsebseb: http://www.treblig.org/daveG/chocsorbet.html   - the only thing you need to watch out for there is to make sure you get veg glycerin
<sebsebseb> penguin42: what's glycerin ?
<zmoylan-pi> made from dead cows
 * sebsebseb might do some baking tommorow actsually, but probably from a vegan cook book that bought at the weekend
<penguin42> well from any fats actually
<sebsebseb> yeah it's annoying there are hidden non veggie things to, gelatine etc
<sebsebseb> rennet etc
<penguin42> sebsebseb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol   you find it in a lot of things to keep them moist
<penguin42> sebsebseb: You could try looking for kosher/halal stuff - they tend to avoid gelatine/renent
<sebsebseb> penguin42: kosher is a shop I think?  halal is a term that comes up at times in things
<sebsebseb> halala I keep on thinking what's that still, but only really done lilfe style change for about  two years now
<penguin42> sebsebseb: No, Halal is food under Muslim food requirements, Kosher is the Jewish equivalent
<penguin42> sebsebseb: But since they both have restrictions on what they can use from animals they tend to avoid gelatine and animal rennet
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: events are fun aren't they?  go to geek ones, and yeah geeks all over h eh, ok done some of that,   now been to another type of event from anything I been to before and wow that was something to
<sebsebseb> it can be lilke you go to anothehr world sort of, for a day or a few hours or so
<Myrtti> sebsebseb: I've been to quite a few geek events, I think I've done my share of them for a while
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: yeah I know you been to OGG Camp, but what else you been to?
<Myrtti> Ubuntu release parties, conferences here and there
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: I think a v egan event has certain similarites to a geek event actsually, going by the one I went to at the weekend
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: even has the really ethical people :d but I didn't see any of the talks,  but signed up to some sort of trail to some sort of magazine that would be more left wing etc
<Myrtti> mmmkay
<sebsebseb> it was maybe a bit to big, I know I didn't get round to it all in the time I had each day, but what i get for getting there lateish on both days I guess
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: daftykins penguin42 zmoylan-pi  ethics over software yeah? morals?  ok not to the Richard Stallman extreme, but enough yeah,  wanting to use free software usually by default? hence using Linux for years yeah?  answer that and then I'll move on to the second part :d
<daftykins> don't highlight like that.
<Myrtti> I don't understand the question
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: why do you use Linux basically, and its done for ehics moral reasons?  or is it?
<sebsebseb> but not to the totally extreame end like RIchard Stallman I Guess, won't use any non free software etc etc
<Myrtti> I know it, I can tweak mine to be what I want it to be easier than I would other OS's, and ethical/philosophical reasons do play on it but it's mostly about practicality
<sebsebseb> probably mixed in with a open source  usually just works better
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: what kind of ethical moral reaons in your case?
<daftykins> lol, what are you smoking if you think it works better XD
<diddledan> da weed
<sebsebseb> except for daftykins job maybe :d, he needs Windows!
<sebsebseb> diddledan: no I have never actually smoked anything in my life
<diddledan> I smoked a cigarette once. well a bit of one, anyway.
<diddledan> am I cool now?
<sebsebseb> diddledan:  h eh
<sebsebseb> yeah I have second hand smoked stuff I guess though,  breahted whatever in uh
<daftykins> i support all the things!
<diddledan> daftykins: ALL the things!
<sebsebseb> daftykins: you need to make money from the consumer, so well Windows :D
<sebsebseb> the not so technicals
<Myrtti> the usual tripe about open source and how it makes the world a better place, and evens out some of the injustices of the world. Handwaving, singing kumbaya by the campfire and feeling togetherness etc.
<daftykins> what makes yu think putting in Linux for someone wouldn't make money?
 * zmoylan-pi gives daftykins a copy of os/2
 * diddledan sings kumbya
<sebsebseb> daftykins: it would but less since it works better generally :d
<daftykins> anyone running 16.04 would make someone a fair few quid right now ;D
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> sebsebseb: i don't think that statement is based in any amount of reality
<diddledan> RedHat seem to be making a small fortune
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: I did this here a bit the other day I think with someone,  not you though :d.  but if can get ethical over software etc, why not eating animals :D ? or well not eating them I should say.  seems most people don't really care much about that. f or me when thinking stuff through it made more sense,  to care about that as well, more so than software actsaully, it's real, software is cyber
<diddledan> I fail to see correlation
<Myrtti> sebsebseb: I've got absolutely nothing against vegans and vegetarians. It's just not an option I can personally take right this moment or in the near future for personal reasons.
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: yep indeed everyone is differnet,  I won't go vegan becasue of certian personal things that I like too much it seems, or been to used to being able to have for years now, uhmm yes milk shakes with real milk for a start, youghurts etc :).  why woudn't you go vegan or veggie ?
<Myrtti> as I said, I've got personal reasons that I won't divulge on a public IRC channel or to people I don't know
<sebsebseb> Myrtti: hmm ok
<sebsebseb> but yeah some people can't eat this and that for example since health reasons
<sebsebseb> ,but can eat  other things meat for example
<sebsebseb> penguin42: hmm frozen desert link, just read through porperly, so you either eat it hot, or get it frozen in the freezer?
<penguin42> sebsebseb: No, always freeze it
<sebsebseb> penguin42: ok not making that tommorow :d
<penguin42> sebsebseb: and I have an ice cream making machine that I do it in and then into the freezer (although I suspect it's not a good machine)
<sebsebseb> yeah a home made ice creme machine could be fun :d
<sebsebseb> and nice
 * penguin42 has considered it, but I'm really not a mech person
<sebsebseb> penguin42: a what person?
<penguin42> mechanical
<sebsebseb> penguin42: you said you had one though?
<sebsebseb> ice cream maker
<penguin42> yes, I bought it
 * sebsebseb apparnatly some girls may even like a guy more, I mean a lot, if he gets all nicely into baking and cooking nice things :D
<sebsebseb> t ech interests gneerally going to be a downpoint for most
<sebsebseb> but what I just put could be a pluss he h
<daftykins> definitely when they buy early tablets
<daftykins> *whistle* ;)
<penguin42> well, I can make sorbet and I can make an apple crumble - I'm sorted then?
<sebsebseb> daftykins: 1st gen Ubuntu tablets :D ?
<sebsebseb> daftykins: well Linux full stop, most just won't understand etc
<sebsebseb> shame really
<sebsebseb> penguin42: I remember having home made ice creame as a kid, at someone we were visitng, she made this lovely strawberry ice creame, tasted awesome
<sebsebseb> oh so long ago now h eh
<penguin42> so that explains that; my dad planted cat mint; completely spaced out cat on the lawn
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> (Not that we have a cat of our own)
<daftykins> next the neighbourhood with be rabbling!
<daftykins> *will be
<daftykins> oy i need my head examined, this is becoming too frequent :P
<m0nkey_> oh dear. bad practice time. SLOG and L2ARC on the same device :)  (talking ZFS)
<daftykins> o0
<Switches> Hmm that was a good Linux Unplugged time for more coffee though
<daftykins> you best plug it back in to charge it whilst you're gone ;D
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Well I like watching it, although there are a few bits in there I am really getting to dislike lol
<penguin42> does anyone know of any large power outages today - there's a ~30min dip in the UK power usage of about 10% at about 3:30pm
<daftykins> ah the exotic pronunciation of open source projects *facepalm*
<Switches> Havenât noticed anything here (Bristol)
<penguin42> me neither (Manchester)
<Switches> Plus if we get any surges here it normally trips the whole damn house >.<
<penguin42> daftykins: Yes, the throat-wabbler-mangrove project?
<daftykins> i fired up the latest ep of that Linux Unplugged Switches mentioned and heard MATE get mentioned, i find all those wonky pronunciations pretentious
<Switches> lol
<penguin42> oh Mate is odd, as are all it's replacements for gnome projects (they need different names to stop clashes - but they have some very odd ones)
<daftykins> someone with some artistic skill should do a strip about attempting to pronounce a few, just as some FOSS ninjas leap out and very yawningly correct that person
<Switches> Tbh the Ubuntu/Canonical bashing gets to me a bit. Everytime I hear that and them saying about NiH it makes me a bit mad, being as imo Redhat has more "NiH Syndrome" than any other Linux distro lol
<daftykins> i'm not familiar with NiH?
<Switches> Not Invented Here
<Switches> It's something that a lot like to blame Canonical with, when all I see is Canonical trying to push barriers and overcome, yeah I don't always agree with them on stuff but at the same time I think Canonical are the only ones that offer users atleast an option.
<Switches> But enough of my outlook on things :p time for some music lol
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-25
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<diplo> Anyone know much about this ransomware stuff ?
<diplo> Wondering if it's easy to identify which one someone is infected with ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Towel Day! ð  ã·
<zmoylan-pi> i know were my towel is...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_pEDblOH8Y
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rOMGIbY-9s
<IsleXpoCom> Morning.
<IsleXpoCom> bye checkout the conference www.islexpo.com
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3V_20oD4A have this instead
<ging_> anyone have any idea how to flush the dns resolver cache on ubuntu 16.04 ?
<davmor2> ging_: did you try sudo /etc/init.d/dns-clean restart?  you can also install nscd and restart that service and dnsmasq I take no blame if you blow up your network though ;)
<davmor2> ging_: http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2013/07/flush-dns-cache-ubuntu-13-04-12-10/
<ging_> dns-clean restart doesnt seem to work on 16.04
<ging_> maybe it does if you run it with init
<ging_> not sure it does anything though
<Switches> ging_: systemd doesn't keep a cache for resolve afaik, just a sudo systemctl restart systemd-resolved should clear it
<diplo>  
<diddledan> well done, diplo, you win the Internet for the most said with the least words
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> ?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: 14:07 <diplo>
<zmoylan-pi> i was just adding my 2c without words diddledan
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> it seemed like you were questioning :-D
<zmoylan-pi> it's a quote of the worlds shortest letter :-)
<zmoylan-pi> sorry telegram... It is said Hugo was on vacation when Les MisÃ©rables (which is over 1200 pages) was published. He telegraphed the single-character message '?' to his publisher, who replied with a single '!'.
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> now i'd have been snarky and replied '&' :-P
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Alt tab+space and hitting enter without noticing excellence diddledan :)
<diddledan> this doesn't really seem very "new" to me: https://boingboing.net/2016/05/25/pastejacking-using-malicious.html
<penguin42> diddledan: I think it's working around a previous restriction that the web browsers added
<diddledan> maybe
<diddledan> the POC code looks really simple
<penguin42> diddledan: I thought at one point they banned any manipulation of the clipboard from js, but it seems they now allow it but under some restricted (but not enough) conditions
<SuperMatt> And this is why I'm fond of switching to running most things in Docker
<SuperMatt> if it's not something I need for my day to day, it's going to exist in a container
 * zmoylan-pi finds dos does the trick... :-)
<penguin42> diddledan: It's ff 41 that enabled it in any 'event handler that is able to pop-up a window (semi-trusted scripts)' - i.e stupidly too easily; so he's just found that it's just too broad an openining
<Switches> I need more coffee
<SuperMatt> although I just tried copying the "not evil" example and it didn't paste anything bad
<diddledan> MOAR!
<SuperMatt> oh wait, there it is
<SuperMatt> it just needed more timer
<SuperMatt> -r
<diddledan> SuperMatt: it only works when you copy with a key-combo. right-clicking and selecting "copy" from the menu doesn't work
<SuperMatt> ah, I see
<diddledan> that might be a limitation of the POC but I think it's down to how they manage to bypass the protection
<diddledan> https://www.thrillist.com/tech/nation/google-patents-smart-contact-lens-to-take-photos-with-eyes
<diddledan> I wanted to be a glasshole
<zmoylan-pi> no judge, i didn't poke his eye out, i was just checking to see if he was complying with our no cameras policy...
<zmoylan-pi> oh wow, i learned to program on a terminal just like this... http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/DEC_VT100_terminal.jpg
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Have your thumbs recovered from the hard shift keys yet?
<zmoylan-pi> i can do a fantastic vulcan nerve pinch penguin42 :-D
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> here's the weird thing.  that keyboard was really high about 1.5" from the desktop.  and no one ever had rsi with them...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: At college we had a handful of vt100's and they were the better terminals they had, I found someone at a radio rally selling more for Â£15/each and told our admin and we filled the lab up with them
<zmoylan-pi> you could stuff in a flat screen, a few terabyte drives and a rasp pi 3 now for retro computiness...
<zmoylan-pi> and after using them for 12 hour days in college the screens were very easy on the eyes...
<penguin42> well, ours were a little blurred :-)
<zmoylan-pi> well it 80x25 text so still readable... :-)
<penguin42> yeh we had one or two that had enough ram to do wide mode :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i came from a zx spectrum with 12x40? so i was glad of the extra text
<penguin42> oh I was already using an Archimedes with 132 column
<zmoylan-pi> when i first got a pc that could do 80x43 i stuck with 80x25 as it felt much more comfortable
<bashrc> 132 columns? Luxury!
<penguin42> bashrc: Yeh 132x32 on a standard monitor
<penguin42> bashrc: and I've never really been happy with 80 column coding limits since :-(
<bashrc> Now it's mainly about avoiding excessive nesting and having multiple terminal windows
<zmoylan-pi> well i used ms quick basic and it's compiler used more memory if the lines went over 128 characters so we made an effort to keep the lines short :-)
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> of course i had to read the entire manual to find that on page 872 sunsection 12 subparagraph b under 'how to format a floppy' instructions... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i rewrite a whole program that had run out of memory to sub 128 character lines in a week to prove it to my boss. worked like a charm... smug mode was firmly on that day... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> until i was handed a list of 20 other programs that needed /adjusting/
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: A place I worked over summer we had it getting down to using pretty much every single character variable name in Beeb Basic
<zmoylan-pi> that was one method for shortening lines... so verbose programs became quite cryptic...
<diddledan> love that. an email service providing status updates for downtime. by email.
<daftykins> >:D
 * diddledan ignores that they also do sms
<zmoylan-pi> they wanted to send telegrams but diddledan refused to tip the telegram boy
<daftykins> ooh you rudeler! he came all that way!
<diddledan> I don't use telegram
<penguin42> smoke signals?
<daftykins> i think zmoylan-pi means the original meaning of telegram ;)
<diddledan> "can you believe I sent a telegram to X but the boy who tried to deliver it reported that X isn't a member"
<zmoylan-pi> babies in baskets left on your doorstep with a note explaining the status of the service pinned to the basket?
<diddledan> s/isn't a member/have the app
<diddledan> hmm, now I need to fix my regex: s/(have the app)/doesn't \1/
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> i think my UPS has been sipping the strong stuff - https://www.dropbox.com/s/yb8udz6rjq8soa1/ups.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> I still need to replace the flattery in mine
<zmoylan-pi> lightening strikes can be funny that way...
<daftykins> diddledan: have you done anything with that mac battery yet too? :P
<diddledan> not yet
<diddledan> no money :-p
<daftykins> holy tux, man!
<diddledan> ALL HAIL THE TUX
<zmoylan-pi> you need a tux costume and then busk at train stations for commuters for money...
 * Switches gives up on reading the drivel that some post in Ubuntu forums..
<daftykins> what like?
<zmoylan-pi> go read youtube comments for 5 minutes and it will make you see that ubuntu forums are not so bad... :-P
<Switches> Well someone was posting in there about Ubuntu not liking AMD cards.. because ofcourse not having FGLRX is "really" bad.. also that zeitgeist is now an "Attack Vector" because it "tracks" files.. Like what the hell does noone bother to read up before posting some of this crap
<Switches> Oh I know zmoylan-pi.. but the forums are getting to around the same point..
<diddledan> how is tracking files bad?
<Switches> I mean zeigeist is all about tracking, hell its what the thing is designed to do.. Why should it need a users permission to keep tabs on files so you can find them easier, its a "usability" boost. As for AMD FGLRX it was never "good" in the first place, tbf half the time it was a downright nightmare. I think i need more coffees
<penguin42> Switches: Yeh but there were times when fglrx was the only way to get a card to work
<Switches> I don't know, I read the post and he was saying about it not asking his permission to keep tabs on files..
<diddledan> it doesn't share the info with anyone so how is it bad?
<Switches> I aint got a clue, I can't understand how these people think, damn people say I'm nuts, people like that make me think I'm the only sane person around
<diddledan> maybe he's worried that his mum will see his porn flash-up when he's showing her something...
<zmoylan-pi> blame it on the cat walking across the keyboard...
<Switches> lol
<diddledan> this is why I don't let anyone use my ipad :-p
<Switches> Well at least I always get a laugh in here :p
<zmoylan-pi> the simple method is to use an alternate browser and do all your mucky stuff in that.  then when you hand the ipad to someone they use the normal browser and no one goes blind...
<diddledan> the internet is full of Game of Thrones spoilers today
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I think I've disproven the blind theory by now
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> then you're not using the right mucky stuff...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you mean like the one with the girl in the bathtub?
<zmoylan-pi> my little pony furries n swarfega pages....
 * diddledan watches the mental image get resurrected
<diddledan> here, have some bleech: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/735572429691596800
<zmoylan-pi> this fox has seen too much... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/735543618044366848/photo/1
<Switches> ...
<Switches> Hmm http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Atomic-PWM-Linux-4.7 that's great.. although I don't know anyone with a "vibrator" rigged up to their linux box >.>
<zmoylan-pi> connected to the microphone it generates white noise to irk the nsa when they hack in... :-P
<penguin42> Switches: There are millions of phones with them
<Switches> Or for that matter why anyone would want to connect it to a PWM..
<Switches> Well thats true
<penguin42> Switches: Your PWM lets you make it vibrate at a given frequency - exactly what you want your vibrator to do
<penguin42> Switches: You don't want the software to have to wiggle it back and forward burning CPU; you just tell the hardware to start wiggling it at a certainf requency
<Switches> ... penguin42 Do you even realise how awkward your making this sound. Look at the chat above and then read what I wrote..
<penguin42> Switches: Well, don't get all excited about it; we're just talking about precise control of your vibrator
<Switches> I'm sat here almost crying with laughter and I'm actually getting serious responses :p
<Switches> maybe I should have tagged j/k on the end
<penguin42> Switches: I mean you don't want the CPU to have to turn your vibrator on and off by hand for minutes on end do you?
<Switches> It was just you had diddledan and zmoylan-pi talking about the porn stuff then I read that article and just burst out laughing.. guess it was timing
<Switches> Well personally I don't have a vibrator, but each to their own I guess. :p
<zmoylan-pi> 2018 the year of linux on the very personal electronics...
<Switches> pmsl
<Switches> Well I guess it does bring "Linux is everywhere" into a whole new meaning...
<zmoylan-pi> and one bunch of hardware that no one uses second hand even if it is linux...
<Switches> lol
<Switches> Man I need to stop laughing, my jaws hurting now lol
<penguin42> Switches: Well, pull your phone out of your pocket and have a look in /sys/devices  - on mine there is a qpnp-vibrator-ee16d800
<Switches> Have a hard job doing that.. I got a Windows Phone xD
<zmoylan-pi> maybe he's like the head of google and uses iphone for privacy? :-P
<daftykins> Switches: Tux fan and yet own a Win phone !?
 * diddledan hides
<diddledan> I got a winpho knocking about here someplace, too
<zmoylan-pi> well as a linux user he is part masochist... :-P
<Switches> Yep, run linux everywhere but my phone tbh, but then I got it for free
<penguin42> Switches: oh well, then I'm sure it's probably just a matter of getting a vibrator handle and passing it to your ....
<zmoylan-pi> a *LOT* of people got winphone for free.  it's the only reason they have the numbers they do have
<Switches> It's just some pos contract phone tbh, EE had an offer on it when I renewed the contract
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: the problem is they didn't want it yet were forced to take it :-p
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> just opened a kitkat which was all smashed up inside :( sad times
<diddledan> "you will have this phone! you'll have it hard!"
<Switches> Would have rather had a Samsung really, but I wasn't willing to pay an every Â£15 a month for it
<zmoylan-pi> phone companies got badgered into taking winphone and then shifted them as freebies to contract customers who often passed them on as christmas/birthday pressies to family members...
<diddledan> daftykins: aren't we on lollipop now?
<Switches> ... rofl
<zmoylan-pi> the only thing ms didn't do was stuff them in baskets and leave them on peoples doorsteps before ringing doorbell and legging it
<daftykins> diddledan: ;)
<daftykins> Marshmallow actually
 * daftykins pats Nexus
<diddledan> and the next one is the nutjob
<Switches> Isn't it Android N now? lol
<daftykins> well it's not out eh
<daftykins> i think my Nexus 5 is getting the chop now, won't get N
<zmoylan-pi> android n, codename nokia...
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> booo
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: nutjob!
<Switches> Ohh thought it was released at Google io.. was that just an announcement?
<daftykins> it's ok, it was a mates that i fixed up for Â£26 for a new screen ;D
<zmoylan-pi> or neurotic
<daftykins> Switches: paper launch i reckon in true style
<Switches> bah
<daftykins> right now only beta sign-ups can play
<Switches> Wonder how popey is doing with that MX5, haven't seen anything from him about it today lol
<zmoylan-pi> probably connecting every piece of hardware he has to it to see if it works...
<daftykins> and recharging it every few ;)
<Switches> Gotta admit I was impressed with it connecting to the TV with that wireless dongle
<diddledan> popey's playing with his dongle?
<diddledan> ohhmyy
<zmoylan-pi> touch his dongle and he'll scream
<Switches> Really, you guys! lol
<zmoylan-pi> when it connects to tv does it run all apps or just a select few? can you use it as 'computer' with a bt keyboard?
<Switches> As far as it looked like it yeah, the phone turn't the screen into a touchpad pretty much
<daftykins> most things do Miracast these days
<zmoylan-pi> so a level of actual convergence
<Switches> Was pretty neat to watch.
<Switches> Yeah, basically
<popey> Switches: :)
<popey> might do another video tomorrow
<Switches> Ohh cool
<popey> i got a nice little stand to hold my phone
<popey> so i dont have to hold it in my hands
<Switches> Can't wait to see more of it, I'm getting really interested in seeing how it all works out. Especially with I think it was ota 11 next week?
<popey> maybe sooner, dunno
<popey> not read lukasz' mails recently
<Switches> Oh cool
<zmoylan-pi> if there's one piece of simple technology needed is a simple standard dock to connect keyboards to screens and or covers.
<Switches> Yeah a little bluetooth dock would be a great addition to something like that phone
<zmoylan-pi> the difficult is that the keyboard would have to support and balance the screen attached as if using it as laptop
<Switches> Tbh I wouldn't mind seeing the Roccat keyboard with something like the Ubuntu phone that would be pretty epic
<zmoylan-pi> but standard so that you could chose from a wide range of standard keyboards and know they'd all hold the screen well and safely
<Switches> something like http://www.roccat.org/en-US/Products/Gaming-Keyboards/Sova/ would be amazing lol
<zmoylan-pi> something like the palm stowaway keyboard... http://danbricklin.com/log/stowaway.htm
<Switches> Imagine that on the sofa with the phone plugged into it streaming to the telly :D
<KrimZon> what program is normally used to select a gtk3 theme in ubuntu 14.04?
<daftykins> much rather a dedicated device on the TV :P
<Switches> daftykins: Well I don't know the steam streaming seems to work pretty well, although that does raise a question.. The MX5 with Steam installed as a streaming device! xD
<Switches> hmm KrimZon you could try gnome-tweak-tool even when not using the shell it should be able to change the gtk3 theme
<daftykins> that's never going to be viable via Miracast yeah, plus a lot of DRM based services would probably deny use over that (i don't know how it is these days but the BBC iPlayer app used to block use on a TV)
<Switches> Yeah I know it was more a "this would be great" kind of thought
<KrimZon> Switches, thanks, i'll try that
<Switches> Like having a mini Ubuntu powered Shield
<daftykins> anything wireless has me cringe :)
<zmoylan-pi> i would prefer wired but that's just me paranoid... :-)
<Switches> No probs KrimZon hope it works, if not try unity-tweak-tool
<daftykins> meh, wired for reliability++
<Switches> rofl
<daftykins> the number of folks that come into #kodi because their darling little raspberry Pi toys are choking trying to stream over poor wifi
<Switches> Come on wireless aint that bad nowadays aslong as you set it up right and have a good N/AC router
 * zmoylan-pi pats my pi and tells it to ignore the silly man...
<daftykins> yeah, all those caveats :P
<Switches> lol true
<zmoylan-pi> no, but the pi's network is a bit crap
<Switches> Is it?
<daftykins> oh and have it in range, on 5GHz so there are no neighbour issues... and... and...
<zmoylan-pi> it's usb is a bit crap and the network is attached to that iirc
<daftykins> yeah LAN on the USB
<Switches> Don't know anything about the little SoC things tbh, was looking at them today to see it it may be worth getting one to toy with
<Switches> if it*
<diddledan> the wifi is on SD bus
<daftykins> i think folks that use gen 2 or 3 models with Kodi to play 1080p content from a local network share over wired do ok
<Switches> http://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=130 thats what i was looking at
<diddledan> yeah, 1080 is prob about 20Mbit/s?
<KrimZon> Switches, i'll try the other one, cause gnome-tweak-tool does nothing
<KrimZon> it's like there's no gtk theme selected and it's just using some default
<daftykins> maybe 35Mb tops for a really high bitrate bluray with DTS
<Switches> KrimZon: If it doesn't work have a look at http://askubuntu.com/questions/660855/how-can-you-change-unitys-theme-from-the-command-line thats how you do it from the terminal (you'll need to know the name of the theme you want to use)
<KrimZon> maybe the settings daemon isn't running - i'm using MATE
<Switches> Hmm not sure on MATE tbh, I don't use it at all
<daftykins> you probably should have started with saying MATE
<KrimZon> i thought it was just a matter of getting a theme picker to run
<KrimZon> i'm not sure what all the dependencies are
<KrimZon> I'll figure it out some other time
<Switches> KrimZon: In theory it should be that way, in practice it rarely is unfortunatly
<Switches> Hmm that looks interesting https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wooting/the-analog-mechanical-keyboard-for-precise-movemen
<penguin42> I wonder how many keys they can sense at the same time
<m0nkey_> I need one
<diddledan> love this from linkedin: "On May 17, 2016, we became aware that data stolen from LinkedIn in 2012 was being made available online. This was not a new security breach or hack. We took immediate steps to invalidate the passwords of all LinkedIn accounts that we believed might be at risk. These were accounts created prior to the 2012 breach that had not reset
<diddledan> their passwords since that breach."
<diddledan> I read that as "if the hackers have compromised your account already and changed your password thereby locking you out, then *middle finger* because we class the password change as being since the breach and therefore your account is 'secure'"
<Switches> probably mine then, haven't used linkedin for a good few years :p
 * zmoylan-pi changes Switches profile to windows me specialist...
<diddledan> "LinkedIn has taken significant steps to strengthen account security since 2012. For example, we now use salted hashes to store passwords"
<diddledan> love that they weren't using any salt prior
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think that they'd know how to find a good security expert...
<diddledan> aye
<penguin42> yeh I just ogt that as well
<zmoylan-pi> or even an ex ms security expert... :-)
<diddledan> do they count "completely random" as a similarity between passwords?
<diddledan> because I use completely random passwords most places which mean that they're all similar in being random
<diddledan> well that's a nugget of hope: "We donât yet know what the jury makes of it all. For what itâs worth, theyâre a fairly conscientious group of people who arrived on time (or earlier) every day at 7:45 AM, filling out notepad after notepad with their notes on Java, Android, OpenJDK, the GPL. On Tuesday, Judge Alsup called them âone of the best juries in
<diddledan> the history of this courthouse.â "
<diddledan> ref: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/why-the-very-silly-oracle-v-google-trial-actually-matters
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> don't you love how links on twitter to the "Windows Experience blog" take the form: "Microsoft.com/blogs/windowsex"
<diddledan> or similar
<diddledan> specifically the mention of windowsex
<Switches> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-26
<diddledan> here's the evidence I posted a while back: https://twitter.com/diddledan/status/722883209877295106
<Switches> lol
<daftykins> fancy not using a hyphen
<daftykins> there's a bit more of a risquÃ© item on your link however...
<diddledan> yeah, that profile pic needs to not exist
<daftykins> nah at the top
<diddledan> as I say
<diddledan> whoever that was needs to be shamed off the net
<diddledan> I don't really understand why it's listed in the thread
<m0nkey_> can the ubuntu server install do mdadm?
<daftykins> hrmm not sure
<daftykins> i'd VM to check
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/advanced-installation.html seems to claim so
 * penguin42 would be surprised if it couldnt
<m0nkey_> the answer is, yes it does.
<mapito> hi all
<daftykins> mapito: 'lo o/
<daftykins> what's new?
<mapito> nada, watching NBA..and prob watch mr right after
<mapito> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2091935/
<mapito> or triple 9
<daftykins> looks suitably trashy ;)
<mapito> pfff it sounds good
<mapito> i havent seen zoolander..so no point seeing 2nd..and dont cre for stiller
<mapito> you watchin baseball?
<daftykins> got a BBC documentary on Legal Highs in Portsmouth on atm
<daftykins> shocking stuff
<mapito> whens it from?
<daftykins> might be 2 years old, no idea
<mapito> new? il dl nd watch if so
<mapito> ah
<mapito> think ive seen thn
<daftykins> hmm guy in Amsterdam 'Dr. Z' that cooks up these things, horrible :/
<daftykins> http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/25/girl-orders-cushions-from-ebay-but-the-reality-she-received-is-a-lot-smaller-5903184/
<mappps> phew my nets back
<mappps> ya daftykins  but people dont have to take them
<daftykins> true
<daftykins> still immoral to make
<mappps> hm what was tht stacey dooley documentary i saw advertised a month or so ago
<mappps> grmpf cant remember
<daftykins> no idea of that name
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> g'day
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> yay new PSU arrived to make up my old desktop again :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> you can unplug your pc parts from the scaletrix power supply \o/ :-P
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> Also means you don't have to hold down the little trigger to make your PC go
<zmoylan-pi> pull too  hard and the pc explodes... :-)
<daftykins> nah i pinched the PSU for my new build, the old desktop has sat in a partially empty case
<diddledan> so I finally, after 10 years of living here, figured-out that my tv antenna sockets aren't connected to anything and that I was receiving TV on the wire only
<diddledan> it was surprising it worked at all
<diddledan> I now have a proper antenna
<diddledan> ooh, tv tonight. referendum debate
<zmoylan-pi> in the 80s a mate had his spectrum wired up to a portable tv and also had a set of bunny ears on it.  there was so much signal leakage in his built up area he got cable tv channels on the bunny ears
<diddledan> cable tv on bunny-ears? how?
<diddledan> that's nuts
<zmoylan-pi> i saw it working... someone must have had a repeater broadcasting the cable tv channels nearby
<zmoylan-pi> very illegally. for years...
<SuperMatt> diddledan: which channel is the debate on?
<diddledan> bbc1 I think
<SuperMatt> cool, I might check iplayer later
<SuperMatt> not that it's going to make a blind bit of difference which way I vote
<TwistedLucidity> Will it be done Gladitators style? I'd watch that
<zmoylan-pi> thunderdome rules...
<diddledan> 1 man enters. 2 men leave.
<diddledan> wait..
<TwistedLucidity> A) Their corrupt and out-of-touch toffs or B) Our corrupt and out-of-touch toffs
<SuperMatt> diddledan: that explains how male twins are born
<diddledan> lol
<SuperMatt> This whole thing should never really have happened
<diddledan> aye
<TwistedLucidity> They only have themselves to blame
<zmoylan-pi> no no you blame the voters this way
<SuperMatt> If the media had done a better job in the last few years of informing the electorate about how EU politics works, and how they can get involved, then we would never have had this referendum
<diddledan> I'm on holiday when the election happens so I'm hoping my postal ballot arrives in time
<SuperMatt> The Greens have won the prize for todayâs most outlandish EU referendum headline. Sian Berry, the Green London assembly member, sent out a press release headed: Brexit could mean break-up for 1 in 10 London couples
<TwistedLucidity> I will confess to having no idea who my MEP is. I know who my MP is and that information depresses me
<diddledan> I'll be on my way back home on the Friday following election night
<SuperMatt> TwistedLucidity: that's exactly it, there is no EU engagement
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Indeed. It's just a country club where the champagne is subsidised by us. All meetings in secret etc etc
<TwistedLucidity> It *should* be good, but it isn't.
<SuperMatt> Then we need to make sure we're voting in the correct MEPs
<TwistedLucidity> A united Europe would be a great thing, the EU is a horror
<SuperMatt> As it stands, maybe, but we can't change anything by getting out
<TwistedLucidity> We can't change anything in the UK, let alone the EU!
<SuperMatt> We had the chance with the voting referendum
<SuperMatt> Can't believe we stuck with FPTP!
<zmoylan-pi> it suits both parties
<zmoylan-pi> keeps out those pesky 3rd parties from getting a foothold
<TwistedLucidity> Just look at our continuing failures to stamp out corruption in the City (dodgy bankers, tax evasion...), Westminster (expenses) and so on
<SuperMatt> TwistedLucidity: that's fine, but that's only due to local politicians being complacent, and nothing to do with the EU
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: I was more thinking, if we can't get our own house in order how can we hope to sort out the EU?
<SuperMatt> sure, I agree
<SuperMatt> so let's not cut off our nose to spite our face
<zmoylan-pi> when was the last time you could trust the city?
<SuperMatt> I trust it now with Sadiq sitting atop the iron throne
<TwistedLucidity> More just give up and try to survive
<foobarry> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<foobarry> heh
<SuperMatt> heh
<foobarry> i wonder if thats even a chan
<TwistedLucidity> Can we have a vote on that?
<diddledan> I vote that it's not a real channel
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> probably just tells you to go to #argument-uk
<penguin42> or #argument-eu
<zmoylan-pi> argument-eu is where you go to get the french all riled up
<zmoylan-pi> by very clearly and repeatedly typing 'NO... SPEAKO... FROGGO...' :-P
<diddledan> or "no parley frenchais"
<TwistedLucidity> Â¿Que?
<zmoylan-pi> cÃ©?
<diddledan> \o/ bank holiday rain
<zmoylan-pi> not a proper bank holiday unless it rains
<zmoylan-pi> and you're stuck behind a caravan in a traffic jam
<diddledan> everyone plans a barbemacue and end-up cooking it indoors
<zmoylan-pi> or under an umbrella on a bbq in the rain
<zmoylan-pi> seering the skin on your front with ice water running down your back... trapped between fire and ice...
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: I did a bbq in the rain on the last one! It was dry when I started :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's always dry when you start.  the weather waits till you're committed... :-)
<diplo> I was told to bring it inside, NEVER! was my response and it all worked out
<penguin42> wouldn't it be a bit dangerous running a bbq inside?
<diplo> :P
<foobarry> i've hit ctrl-q too many times. getting the firefox addon
<foobarry> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/disable-ctrl-q-shortcut/
 * penguin42 sighs at addons that should be configs
<foobarry> its a very small piece of code
<zmoylan-pi> especially as ctrl-w is used so often
<diddledan> ctrl+w is a pain when you start getting used to using nano's search feature
<diddledan> use nano regularly and get used to using ctrl+w for find. move to browser and try to find some text on the page..
 * diplo doesn't use ctrl-w, whats that for...? Investigates
<diplo> close window
<Dave> diddledan: and then you get to learn about ctrl+shift+t
<zmoylan-pi> all hail the genius who added ctrl-shift-t
<diplo> ooooohhhhh all the shortcuts today!
<penguin42> my favorite KDE shortcut is ctrl-alt-shift-pageup
<zmoylan-pi>  /texttosearchfor is probably my most used...
<diddledan> http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/us-military-uses-8-inch-floppy-disks-to-coordinate-nuclear-operations/ar-BBtvwsY?ocid=spartandhp
<diddledan> sorry for the Microsoft link :-/
<penguin42> well, it's pretty much hacker proof
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> that's what I thought when reading it
<diddledan> I mean what's the chances that a kid has a dialup modem that they would use to phone WAPR?
<zmoylan-pi> no no you just leave a few 8" floppies on the ground outside with a virus on them... :-)
<diddledan> even if they did have a modem it probably would try connecting too fast
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> of course the capacity of 8" floppies is small you'll have to label the floppies 1-3 and make sure they insert them in the right order so instructions to install all the virus will be needed...
<zmoylan-pi> depressingly this will work...
<zmoylan-pi> and i still have a modem around here that will do 300baud which is what a lot of the old systems talk...
<diddledan> I know I did have a modem around here, but not sure where it is right now
<diddledan> a proper rs232 one rather than the winmodem-style
<zmoylan-pi> none of tha winmodem rubbish... proper hayes compatible jobbie...
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/05/google-to-bring-official-android-support-to-the-raspberry-pi-3
<diddledan> how do they keep finding people who can sing that aren't already known? http://www.itv.com/britainsgottalent/live-shows/beau-dermott-gives-us-goosebumps
<SuperMatt> turns out people can practice
<SuperMatt> and some people who didn't want to go on before have changed their mid
<SuperMatt> *mind
<SuperMatt> it's inconceivable, I know
<SuperMatt> but it happens
<SuperMatt> that is a pretty fantastic voice, to be fair
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Talent, determination, luck, connections.
<TwistedLucidity> You need at least 3 out of 4
<SuperMatt> also, I'm sure that Cowell's cronies are told to find only a couple of a certain type of person each season, so good talents are left behind because they're not marketable... yet
<TwistedLucidity> She maybe 12, but that voice is around 25 :-P
<davmor2> diddledan, TwistedLucidity, SuperMatt: this was one of my favourite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5dvu4feCFk
<diddledan> davmor2: that's the one in fifth elephant, right?
<davmor2> diddledan: it is
<TwistedLucidity> I'm getting sore throat in sympathy
<SuperMatt> davmor2: christ almighty, that's impressive
<SuperMatt> Trump is officially the republican party nominee
<popey> (lol)
<penguin42> SuperMatt: How long until he finds the launch disk ?
<SuperMatt> someone get a magnet to it now
<penguin42> SuperMatt: And apparently he's currently leading Clinton in the polls - so he really could get in
<SuperMatt> considering the news out today, it seems quite possible
<SuperMatt> I just hope america comes to its senses
<penguin42> this seems unlikely
<diddledan> I think Obama's last act should be to nuke his own country to save the world from enduring Trumpageddon
<diddledan> obviously that's a jest
<TwistedLucidity> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<TwistedLucidity> :-)
<diddledan> I would hope that Trump be more sensible should he win the office.
<TwistedLucidity> Well, Trump will scrap TTIP. So that's at least something
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> just the ttip
<TwistedLucidity> Bernie is probably the best, shame he's anti-science
<diddledan> said the actress to the ..
<TwistedLucidity> Then again, they all are
<TwistedLucidity> What're the standings in the Democract race anyway? Is it Clinton, Bernie or Ficus?
<SuperMatt> Clinton is a mere cat's wisker away from being the Democratic Party nominee
<popey> bernie is refusing to step aside
<TwistedLucidity> Isn't she being impeached or something?
<popey> I was in a cab in the US and the passengers all agreed he should step aside for her
<TwistedLucidity> popey: All the passengers were morons
<popey> they were american
<SuperMatt> The biggest problem with news from the states, is that it's quite often passed through a filter of an extremely vocal yet completely uninformed electorate
<TwistedLucidity> Careful now, I am sure cultural stereotyping is against the CoC
<popey> I said nothing
<TwistedLucidity> LOL
<popey> Just clarified where I was.
<TwistedLucidity> I'll still balme you though. :-)
<popey> ok
<TwistedLucidity> In case anyone was wondering why I said "Ficus". #13 http://hoaxes.org/Top/satirical_candidates/P10/
<popey> For once in their lifetimes they have a real opportunity for positive change in their country
<popey> And they're going to screw it up and let Trump or Clinton in.
<popey> Morons, yes.
<TwistedLucidity> Thing is, if you have change and fairness, transparency etc, you now have to pay the true cost. Who would vote for that?
<TwistedLucidity> Clear thinking people, sure. How many of those are there?
<diddledan> are you allowed to culturally stereotype your own culture?
<diddledan> like Jewish lawyers referring to themselves as sheisters?
<TwistedLucidity> So I can say "All Irish are drunken idiots"?
<diddledan> that's what I'm wondering
<TwistedLucidity> Hrm...I guess context is the thing. One has to be so careful these days, some folks are so quick to take offence when none was intended or there was a simple misunderstanding.
<diddledan> I reserve the right to offend
<diddledan> I also reserve the right to be offended
<diddledan> that doesn't mean you're not allowed to offend me though. you have that right, so have at it
<TwistedLucidity> At what point does the right of indiviuals' to cause offence through free speech become an issue? e.g. hounding of people.
<TwistedLucidity> I guess it also comes down to saying "That idea is stupid" as opposed to "You are stupid". If someone is deeply invested into an idea, they can still take offence at the former even when there's nothing to take offence at.
<TwistedLucidity> Me, I prefer to take little notice of the lower orders. ;-)
<diddledan> stupid is as stupid does
<TwistedLucidity> My box of chocolates always told life was like momma
<TwistedLucidity> Wait, what?
<diddledan> mah momma always said laaf is laak a box of chocolets
<diddledan> gotta love Tom Hanks
<diddledan> he's had some amazing films
<diddledan> poor Wilson, though.. that was heartbreaking
<TwistedLucidity> Have you seen "John Wick"?
<TwistedLucidity> (I know it's not a Hanks film)
<diddledan> I have, but I've forgotten it
<TwistedLucidity> [WARNING SPOLIERS] One word: puppy
<diddledan> gotcha
<TwistedLucidity> I felt sick
<diddledan> that's enough to remind me :-)
<TwistedLucidity> I think that's the first time I've Reeves do an expression other than "gormless"
<TwistedLucidity> That said, loved him in Constantine
<davmor2> diddledan: hmmm john wick great film
<daftykins> not sure what they'll do for #2!
<zmoylan-pi> disappoint the fans is the usual thing to do... :-P
<daftykins> my friend brought me 5 dead iDevices... https://www.dropbox.com/s/tuy8buigtrmo7ku/IMG_20160526_174629.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> so much fun awaits!
<zmoylan-pi> someone queued for all those devices...
<Switches> daftykins: lol looks like it
 * Switches goes back to finding Dual 8pin PSU and EATX case
<daftykins> a physicist might say they all have dual spin, Switches ;D
<Switches> daftykins: Trying to find a PSU with dual 8 pins for CPUs, If I can find one. If not guess I'm going to be getting a splitter :(
<daftykins> ah the EPS connections?
<Switches> Yep
<daftykins> i saw a Y of those just the other day when ordering my extension for my new PSU
<daftykins> (for the Q6600)
<Switches> Think amazon does the Y splitters, but was trying to find a PSU that doesn't need it as it makes the cabling look horrible :p
<daftykins> *nod* i know what you mean
<daftykins> i've ordered a white replacement screen for the iPhone 5 in the pic, for <Â£18 :)
<Switches> Hmm that's an idea actually.. could get a custom splitter made I guess
 * Switches runs off to look at cablemods site
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> bare wires wrapped around matches plugged into the mother board always looks neat...
 * daftykins finds Switches in 3 weeks, debating pink braided wire vs. black and green
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: ah a man of taste
<Switches> Well I got two Xeon E5620 Quads sat here doing jack, just found a Supermicro board on ebay for them so looking at what it will cost me to build a decent storage machine
<daftykins> that backblaze study suggests HGST SATA 3.5" hard disks rule the roost, if it's of any relevance/interest :)
<Switches> Yeah so I read, was thinking of maybe getting a few of them and a couple of small ssd for caching on ZFS
<daftykins> hmm would the data you store be of the type to justify such a cache, or would it be for the fun of it?
<Switches> I mean having a server with 8 cores, 16 threads and a few nice drives should work ok, even if my credit card will hate me for a few months :p
<Switches> For the fun of it really
<daftykins> has anyone done an iPad screen swap before?
<daftykins> they strike me as a risky beast, evil glue 'n' all
<daftykins> (please forgive my poor grammar, rocking a 30hr all-nighter right now :) )
 * penguin42 notes that doing an iPad screen swap after a 30hr all-nighter might not be he best move
<zmoylan-pi> unless you want the weirdest frankenpad in the office :-)
<daftykins> haha, oh no i've not got the tool, ifixit sell this neat microwaveable strip thingy
<daftykins> https://eustore.ifixit.com/out/pictures/master/product/1/5e47b6830415a055facbb468665cb3ae.mtAZTMRDOMhYBGHN.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> why's the screen sideways...? :-P
<daftykins> you know those fruity types :)
<daftykins> in fairness i've exercised quite remarkable restraint, i took the two screws out of the iPhone and prised the screen off... but i've left it there, only 2 screws out!
<daftykins> i'm even umm-ing and arr-ing over a 99p SIM tray :D
 * zmoylan-pi gets ready to start ripping 30 rock dvds
<diddledan> I've started listening to the david lagercranz girl with the dragon tattoo sequel audiobook
<daftykins> diddledan: ah yes that's the commissioned fellow? good call, i was going to try that
<daftykins> heard there was quite the complaint from the guys estranged wife, mostly along the lines of Â£Â£Â£
<daftykins> my software dev friend just asked me how, on a Linux system, you would generate the current time for use in a tag in a database - any thoughts?
<penguin42> daftykins: In C  clock_gettime or gettimeofday
<diddledan> ooh the debate is on
<diddledan> forgot to watch out for it
<daftykins> apparently it's running in a docker container o0
<daftykins> "db takes any string as a tag"
<penguin42> daftykins: One thing I'd warn would be don't overly specify the time; using high res timers can be expensive on some systems
<diddledan> what language, daftykins ?
<daftykins> i know she primarily devs with java but i've not heard a clear answer yet, hrmm
<diddledan> daftykins: then whatever java provides for it's timeofday function
<penguin42> oh java probably has some class hierarchy for finding times
<diddledan> seems a bit of a silly question to me
<diddledan> "I want X" .. the answer is "get X then"
<daftykins> :D she does have a wee habit of such
<diddledan> most languages have portable libraries which implement such things
<diddledan> Linux isn't some magic unicorn that you have to do things strangely
 * daftykins looks at the stable he built, glances back
<daftykins> diddledan: i've got some hay and sugar cubes you can buy...
<diddledan> rainbow poo
<daftykins> only if you play your cards right
<daftykins> thanks folks, awaiting a response but it's slowgoing XD
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/YbYWhdLO43Q
<diddledan> well I'll be jiggery-pokeried by a monkey's uncle
<diddledan> ooh, popeylicious! the ubuntu podcast has been updated
<diddledan> that there America, eh?
<diddledan> OMG GOOGLE WON!!!!!!!1!!111! http://www.cio.com/article/3069529/linux/linux-is-the-largest-software-development-project-on-the-planet-greg-kroah-hartman.html
<diddledan> wrong link
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/google-wins-trial-against-oracle-as-jury-finds-android-is-fair-use/
<penguin42> now, for the appeals
<diddledan> awww, don't ruin it!
<m0nkey_> holy cow. Canonical has an office in Montreal
 * m0nkey_ looks them up to see if any jobs are going
<popey> we've had an office there for many years
<m0nkey_> I've never really checked. But I was looking at this Landscape thing, noticed the support number was a 514 area code
<m0nkey_> On Boul St. Laurent :)
<penguin42> m0nkey_: You do realise that for a lot of tech companies they let you work at home; you don't actually need to be in/at one of their offices?
<penguin42> m0nkey_: Obviously unless your job is to put the smoke back in to machines that happen to be there
<diddledan> I love that magic smoke
<m0nkey_> The magic blue smoke?
<diddledan> it's always best to let it be free
<penguin42> where would we be without it?
 * diddledan takes a photo of his picase
<m0nkey_> wha? 16.04 doesnt come with nfs-common installed?! what is this world coming to?
<diddledan> https://cloud.bowlhat.net/s/UJvXDyLLqDJZ5cJ <-- magic blue smoke
<lopta> What does NFS-Common do?
<lopta> (I mean, I know what NFS is)
<diddledan> provides common nfs stuff
<lopta> ...-common?
<lopta> Ah, ok
<diddledan> stuff that gets shared by multiple nfs-related packages
<lopta> Ah, I should have guessed that by the name.
<diddledan> i.e. stuff that nfs-server and nfs-client both need
<m0nkey_> can't mount nfs shares from fstab without it :)
<m0nkey_> i'm in the process of moving my freenas jails to VMs on my proxmox box
<m0nkey_> best of all worlds there.. debian base, ZFS and ubuntu VMs :)
<lopta> m0nkey_: Is there an advantage to mixing Debian and Ubuntu?
<m0nkey_> Probably not. But Proxmox is Debian based
 * lopta doesn't know what a Proxmox is.
<m0nkey_> It's a virtualization platform based on KVM
<lopta> Ah, ok
<m0nkey_> It also contains LXC goodies too
<lopta> LXC?
<m0nkey_> Linux Containers
<lopta> Oh, those.
<m0nkey_> And the kernel has ZFS baked in. I love the ZFS filesystem.
<lopta> I know the Solaris, Illumos and FreeBSD people like it.
<lopta> ...but I've heard it wants gobs and gobs of RAM.
 * m0nkey_ has become a FreeBSD guy
<m0nkey_> Yeah, my FreeNAS box typically uses 12GB RAM
<lopta> I haven't tried it recently. Last time was about fifteen years ago.
<lopta> I'm typing this on a NetBSD box.
<lopta> (at the office)
<diddledan> m0nkey_: they replaced the openvz then, or is that still in there too?
<lopta> I should probably learn FreeBSD for ZFS and Jails.
<diddledan> in proxmox I mean
<m0nkey_> openzv is gone as per v4 of proxmox
<lopta> ...it's a challenge to make the time though.
<zmoylan-pi> spacex livecast starting in a mo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYC4f79iXc
<penguin42> hmm, still starting soon
 * zmoylan-pi remembers waiting for apollo missions to be launched while waiting at nearby tv shop window so waiting for youtube to start is a little easier... :-)
 * penguin42 isn't that old
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's showing 1hr:32min countdown until the livestream starts
<zmoylan-pi> yeah seems to have been pushed back :-(
<diddledan> it feels later than 11:20
<zmoylan-pi> are you east of gmt? :-)
<Switches> Hmm don't you just love BST
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Looks like it's flipped to tomorrow
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-27
<diddledan> daftykins: did you crash yet?
<MooDoo> morning all
<Switches> Morning
<MooDoo> Thought I was the only crazy nutter up this early :)
<Switches> Na, I just don't do much sleeping :p
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> yes
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> mornign peeps
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Donât Fry Day! ð  â¼
<knightwise> morning peeps
<SuperMatt> why would we not do any frying?
<knightwise> Frying is never bad
<brobostigon> especially fried potatoes, :)
<SuperMatt> I would love a bacon sandwich today
 * knightwise drops the sandwich
<brobostigon> yes please, too.
 * zmoylan-pi fires up 1980s fact of the day app in dosbox... 'bismark hit by torpedo'
<knightwise> whooo
<knightwise> that was a  intense one
<foobarry> belgrano?
<foobarry> or it's just telling you thats how the bismarck as sunk in WWii?
<zmoylan-pi> and weirdly the attack succeeded as the planes used were so obsolete the guns predictors on the bismark found it hard to track them
<foobarry> fairey swordfish?
<zmoylan-pi> stringbags
<foobarry> and they were verstaile and could be carried on aircraft carriers
<zmoylan-pi> they outlasted 2 planes meant to replace iirc
<zmoylan-pi> *replace them
<foobarry> are you just reading wikiepdia?
<zmoylan-pi> when my health was at it's worst i may have read the internet once or twice... :-P
<foobarry> i made a 1/32 tiger moth with rigging
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/mtWD9ZR
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: That's pretty neat. Every time I've tried something like that it ends up looking like a perfect replica.
<TwistedLucidity> Post crash. :-(
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> trying to get to tab-zero
<foobarry> close about 10 tabs a day
<foobarry> still got over 50
<TwistedLucidity> And Moz killed tab groups :-(
<zmoylan-pi> i use a lot of rss and 10-15 tabs
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNGaa5Opfmc
<davmor2> JamesTait: or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag8XcMG1EX4
<anes_> Hi friends , i try preseed using pinguy , but not working
<anes_> my preseed is : http://pastie.org/10854841
<anes_> custom.seed file
<anes_> any body pls help
<anes_> no body hAVE IDEA?
<davmor2> anes_: only thing I can do is point you at the official preseed doc for ubuntu but that is easy to find with a quick google
<davmor2> anes_: but I don't think that will help much, you might want to ask on #ubuntu as there are more people there and someone might of use the software and preseed
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4l7kjd/found_a_text_file_at_work_titled_why_should_i/
<davmor2> \o/ I can use the t'interwebz again
<davmor2> man I forgot what this kinda slow was like
<SuperMatt> hoorah!
<davmor2> has 128kbs connection till I repositioned the areals on the router now I'm up to a balmy 2mbs
<SuperMatt> 128kbps? that was a pipe dream for me in the 90s
<SuperMatt> christ, I want this long weekend to start already
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I am only getting 30Mbps from a supposed 300Mbps link - is there some secret sauce guide to aerial-fu?
<SuperMatt> HURRY UP
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: if you get a faster connection by the router then the likelihood you need to direct the aerials in the general direction of where you pc is, so the router here is up stairs the aerials where upright, this basically meant that very little of the signal was being bounced downstairs
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...I was in the lounge within 2m of the router.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: so by putting them at a 45Â° angle and turning the router in the direction of the laptop I got a much better signal
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: went from 8-12% to 52%
<TwistedLucidity> I'm seeing ~75% signal
<TwistedLucidity> I'm clearly too stupid for this kind of thing.
<DJones> SuperMatt: Having 7 day long weekends isn't the paradise you want, they're really boring
<SuperMatt> DJones: I've been on my notice period for the last three weeks. I've done no work. Coming in to the office to do no work is *worse* than staying at home
<DJones> SuperMatt: Being at home on long term sickness/benefits isn't any fun
<SuperMatt> ah, yes I can imagine so
<SuperMatt> I'm trying to convince the fiancee that when she officially finished uni that she doesn't want to be a stay at home wife, because she will get bored
<SuperMatt> Any money she earns will be completely disposable income, because I'm already paying the mortgage, bills, food, etc
<SuperMatt> we could save quickly for a holiday
<Seeker`> good luck with that
<SuperMatt> the convincing or the saving?
<foobarry> SuperMatt: i have colleagues who have done no work in 15 years
<Seeker`> my wife graduated at the same time as me (8 years ago). She currently picks online orders for a local supermarket. Can't convince her to do anything more
<DJones> SuperMatt: Wife.... Shoes & Handbags/////
<TwistedLucidity> Heh, looking for infor on my router I wonder of Bufallo are guilty of false advertising. It's meant to be 300Mbps, but not test has got faster than 70Mbps....
<SuperMatt> Seeker`: if it brings in even a little money, I'd be ok with the mrs doing that kind of thing
<DJones> SuperMatt: s/Wife/whife or Fiance/
<SuperMatt> she's probably going to graduate with a first, so she shouldn't have too much trouble getting a good job
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah, I think I'll stop banging my head against a brick wall - the unit can't push the data Buffalo claim. Why claim "300Mbps" when it can barely top 70Mbps?
<SuperMatt> anyway, I think I'm going to bugger off early because the boss isn't here
<SuperMatt> ciao
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: run speedof.me :)
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: also stop all the torrenting and you'll have interwebz again too :D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: As I'm wired right now, it won't tell me much.
<TwistedLucidity> speedof.me claim 35Mbps, fast.com says 160Mbps. How queer.
<akxwi-dave> davmor2, Powerline adaptors are your friend..
<TwistedLucidity> Not if you are a radio ham
<akxwi-dave> thats very true..  but i bet sooner or later it may be.. :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: heh yeah i slept far before midnight :P
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: and what about speedtest.com
<TwistedLucidity> Err...a free dating site?
<TwistedLucidity> .net
<TwistedLucidity> ~160 down. THat's about right
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeap .net
<foobarry> arrgggh
<foobarry> tried debugging a blurry graph issue and it turns out the firefox page have been ctrl-+ zoomed
<popey> heheh
<TwistedLucidity> Some plonker near me is running their WiFi onc channel 5. I bet they think they're clever
<popey> i flashed replacement firmware on mine to move it up to ch 13
 * popey hugs MartijnVdS 
<TwistedLucidity> Won't 13 overlap 11? Also, isn't 13 on for Japan (or USA)?
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, no. I have 13. Maybe it's 14 or somehting
<foobarry> knew i should have bought 2 pairs of same trainer. they don't sell that model anymore :(
<foobarry> my favourite soe
<foobarry> karrimor don't seem to do many with vibram sole any more
<penguin42> foobarry: I found most of my karrimor's at sports direct and it was pretty random
<foobarry> gonna go back and have a look tomorrow
<foobarry> the cheap ones have nasty flat sole, but the mid range have nicer shape and support
<penguin42> but I always tended to pick the cheapest that didn't look insane - well, the cheapest
<foobarry> i've had both
<daftykins> any of you folks keep any old kit around? i need a pretty specific size of graphics card fan (just the fan)
<penguin42> my current pair have a very thin sole - you can feel each rock
<foobarry> even as a cheapskate i recommend the vibram or dynagrip sole
<zmoylan-pi> the last video card i found was so old it hadn't even got a heat sink... :-P
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af297/oldbanian/vfan054-2.jpg~original
<foobarry> worth asking
<daftykins> whoever came up with this design needs to be shot
<zmoylan-pi> wow that's ugly
<daftykins> the heatsink uses a non-standard mount approach too, so i can't just swap the lot
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one cpu fan that got killed and had no replacement for.  i ended up using a completely different fan that took creative screwing to fit the heatsink it sat on
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> just now i used twist ties to mount a 120mm fan to an expansion slot blanking plate, slips in nicely :>
<zmoylan-pi> great minds... :-)
<daftykins> i used to do that a lot though, add a fan by screwing into a Pentium III's heatsink for example
<daftykins> i had a 600MHz beaut that ran at 800
<penguin42> the SPEEEEEED
<daftykins> :D
<Seeker`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYC4f79iXc spacex
 * popey chromecasts to telly
<zmoylan-pi> up she goes
 * penguin42 watches just hte technical webcast
<zmoylan-pi> touchdown
<Seeker`> it's almost as if they're getting good at this
<penguin42> have they reused any of the stage1's yet for actual launches?
<zmoylan-pi> not yet aiui
<zmoylan-pi> i think the first one is going in a museum
<Seeker`> I think they're planning that for later in the year
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-28
<daftykins> new one on me
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/97pnqycygeyp9m9/paypal_issue.PNG?dl=0
<m0nkey_> TAX DODGE!
<penguin42> that must be a real pain
<daftykins> it's not stopped me before from ebay items, this was ifixit europe
<daftykins> changed from "UK Guernsey" to "UK", took the Â£2.50 VAT hit and now it's on its' way :P
<daftykins> quite tired of being a second class citizen though
<penguin42> haha so you just list it as UK but specify the right postcode?
<m0nkey_> heh, i said it was a tax dodge :P
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> and shunted a couple of fields back so i could put 'Guernsey' as my city
<m0nkey_> anyone know of any decent open source monitoring tools that aren't nagios?
<daftykins> 'fraid not
<penguin42> m0nkey_: I've heard of but not tried opennms
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xs5xgzsa8np9666/IMG_20160528_043131.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> an ex glass/digitiser XD
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * zmoylan-pi fires up 80s fact of the day dos app... 'ian fleming b.1908'
<diddledan> <troll> âIâm running umbunto warty. how I upgrade 16.4?"
<diddledan> thatâs pretty much everything wrong with the internet morons
<zmoylan-pi> yes, it's leenux ubunto warty... :-P
<diddledan> I blow my nose in your general direction
 * zmoylan-pi builds giant wooden rabbit and prepares trebuchet... 
<diddledan> RUN AWAY!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs
<popey> downloaded all of england OSM, did a search for various tags, there appears to be only one place that is tagged yurts in the whole of the UK
<penguin42> where?
<popey> and one tagged winniedepooh ð
<popey> lets see
<zmoylan-pi> whereas loads of places are tagged mine....
<popey> hm, this isn't as easy as I thought  ð
<popey> I want to extract a bunch of points of interest, like maybe some statues, post boxes and a few other things
<popey> I'll settle for just statues for now
<popey> so far I grabbed the gb pbf file from geofabrik, and converted with osmconvert to o5m format, then used osmfilter to extract stuff, but it generates many many GB xml files
<popey> need to limit it a bit further, kills my laptop doing this, giant IO wait
<zmoylan-pi> points of interest... post boxes... :-P
<penguin42> those are GB files for GB?
<popey> yes
<popey> zmoylan-pi: yeah, not especially interested in those
<popey> it's for a game
<penguin42> this a scavenger hunt type of thing?
<popey> bit like ingress. I want to find some points in the UK that people can go to and find/do something
<popey> yeah
<popey> but want to make the sourcing of the points of interest easy
<popey> as people outside the UK may play, want to use some specific tags which might work everywhere, or is that perhaps optimistic :)
<popey> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=tourism%3Dartwork and http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=historic%3Dmemorial look good
<popey> hmmm http://paste.ubuntu.com/16768306/
<penguin42> I do like the waffle irons on the SpaceX rockets
<zmoylan-pi> takes care of any passing seagulls
<brobostigon> how do i tell apache which php version to use? if i have several php versions installed?
<penguin42> hmm apparently the Beeb have commissioned a new series of HHGttG
<penguin42> (radio based on 'And Another Thing'
<zmoylan-pi> i'd prefer more cabin pressure at this point
<zmoylan-pi> because they'd have to recast a lot of parts for the series and it would feel just a little off
<penguin42> it's not impossible it would work; just slightly improbable
 * zmoylan-pi plugs improbability drive into piece of fairy cake and a really strong cup of tea
<diddledan> m0nkey_: there is icing, which is nagios-like in that it reuses nagios agents
<diddledan> incinga**\
<diddledan> icinga**
<diddledan> damned interfering mac osx
<m0nkey_> I found the motherload
<m0nkey_> http://omdistro.org/start
<m0nkey_> it includes icinga
<m0nkey_> It has Nagios + plugins, NagVis, Icinga, pnp4nagios, rrdtool, check_mk, and ton of other stuff pre-installed and configured
<penguin42> interesting
<diddledan> why both nagios and icinga installed together? o_O
<diddledan> seems redundant
<m0nkey_> not sure, about to try it
<m0nkey_> why doesn't anyone provide KVM qcow2 images for 'appliances'?
<m0nkey_> how the heck do you say 'icinga' .. because ici.. french, here.. nga.. ummmm. wont go there
<penguin42> I'm never sure if it's eye-king-ah or icing-ah
<foobarry> i use adagios
<foobarry> nagios but the bad bits fixed
<Switches> Evening ubunuts!
<sebThreeM10white> hi
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Curiously long nick you have there
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42: yeah, but you know who I am, and what my knick means right :)?
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Well, I suspect I know who you are, but the rest of the name, hmmm - I'm not sure what the M10 is - I mean Daystrom only went upto m5
<Switches> sebsebseb: Got a White BQ M10 then :p
<zmoylan-pi> tis the ubuntu phone
<penguin42> 10 is the tablet?
<Switches> yeah
<sebThreeM10white> Switches: yep bingo and the white is the HD, not the black one that most of the fan boys got
<sebThreeM10white> that's F HD
<sebThreeM10white> I may get one of those at a much later date as well
<sebThreeM10white> but that's really low on my things I may want to buy that are tech list :d
<sebThreeM10white> since I hav this one :)
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: So, how are you liking it?
<Switches> 720p screen rather than the 1080p? or is a 900p?
<sebThreeM10white> PaulW2U: well using it instead of lap top right now with blue tooth keyboards:d
<sebThreeM10white> uh for penguin42
<penguin42> nod
<sebThreeM10white> switches something like that, but I bought htis at a time when I was short enough on money for 40 pounds or so difference to actsually be quite a lot
<sebThreeM10white> switches plus I like having the one thats the like rejected one h e h eh or mostly rjected, well if you read the things I did on omgubuntu etc I mean he heh
<Switches> Well tbh mate I don't see the point in all the Full HD screens in tabs and phones... but thats just me
<sebThreeM10white> at least osmeone else has the white one though, since there was a review he did that went on there
<sebThreeM10white> switches whys that?
 * sebThreeM10white prefers the colour white now for tech as well, black is so uhmm standard common and boring
<sebThreeM10white> as for the camera yes the other one has a bit of a better one but genreally the one I ghot here should be fine enough.  altough the app crashed the other day when I was trying to  take a more detailed photo with it hmm
<penguin42> Switches: I dunno, full HD is reasonable; the quad-hd is getting a bit silly; the size of a pixel for a full-hd tablet at arms length is similar to a full HD TV at TV distance
<Switches> Well you can't really stream Full HD over most the "cheaper" versions Wireless connections, mine only streams 720p with a 900p screen. but then I'm just a cheap bastard
<sebThreeM10white> switches its pretty much the same hardware excpet for a few little differences
 * sebThreeM10white thinks that yes for basic such as IRC email play8ing msuic etc, sure can replace a lap top nicely with these Ubuntu devices really, but can also do  more than just basics with them,  espeically once got xmir set up to do so :d
<Switches> I can understand that some need the higher resolutions with things like Miracast becoming more of a thing (and Convergence stuff). But I mean just for walking around
<sebThreeM10white> switches yeah or your popey and anyting with a less res is now seen as bad
<sebThreeM10white> a low res
<Switches> :p
<sebThreeM10white> sebThreeM10white: penguin I think the xmir feature is going to be more interesting than convergence :d
<sebThreeM10white> for penguin42 switches
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: What do you mean by switches?
<sebThreeM10white> that's his nick
<penguin42> oh
<sebThreeM10white> the tablet has a demo of some of the desktop linux apps on it by default
<sebThreeM10white> firefox, gedit, the gimp and xchat gnome
<sebThreeM10white> and libre office
<penguin42> right, all that stuff should just work
<penguin42> and it's got 2GB of RAM so it should be useful (even if it's just A53 cores)
<sebThreeM10white> however there's a way to hack that so it can run lots of other things, vlc and yep yep yep lots of stuff,,but it's getting offical support worked on now well i MEAN IN A  more suprted way]
<sebThreeM10white> I think the next over the air up date has the like start of that being more supported etc more properly, no need for the hack
<sebThreeM10white> want other stuff ok
<Switches> Well Xmir isn't really a "future" thinking thing though, it's more a "keep old stuff going for now" thing. I don't find it that interesting, I do understand the need for it though
 * penguin42 doubts X is going to disappear quickly
<sebThreeM10white> switches well yes it's to make the old desktop linux stuff work, but it's still interesting :)
<sebThreeM10white> certain stuff wont' work with it, but it should be able to run most things in the future :)
<Switches> What's got me interested at the mo is Mir having Vulkan support
<penguin42> oh yeh I must look at Vulkan
<sebThreeM10white> Vulkan sounds familur, what's that?
<Switches> Vulkan is going to change a lot of thinking
<Switches> Replacement for OpenGL
<Switches> Used to be called AMD Mantle
<sebThreeM10white> oh right yeah that
<sebThreeM10white> I think read about that before
<sebThreeM10white> or possibly
<sebThreeM10white> switches I see that as an advantage being able to run well thousands of Desktop Linux programs on the Ubuntu devices :)
<sebThreeM10white> and well enough for most of them to I guess, well in the future, xmir is still experimental etc now it seems
<Switches> Yeah it's a "low level" graphics API, exposes a lot more hardware resources and allows a lot better resource management
<sebThreeM10white> well I havrn't reid the hack thing,  was meaning to.  but I know can get vlc and inkscape and lots of things working like that
<sebThreeM10white> but libertine is goingg to have like more proper support in the GUI etc in Ubuntu touch  for that kind of thing so
<Switches> yeah libertine sounds interesting
<sebThreeM10white> sebThreeM10white: yeah thats for xmir what it uses etc
<sebThreeM10white> uh for switches
 * sebThreeM10white probably doesnt really need to try and highlight now anyway switches is around and probably penguin42 as well
<Switches> sebThreeM10white: Yeah it looks to have a lot of advantages
<sebThreeM10white> Switches: penguin42 I should have probably said  how great the chrome book was the other day,  to my older brother, even if not quite what I thought, since now since his WIndows computer got slow, hes bought a cheap net book with WIndows 10 instead hmm
<Switches> lol
<sebThreeM10white> a chromebook would have at least been lLinux hmm
<Switches> Chromebooks are pretty amazing tbf
<sebThreeM10white> switches yeah he's been using a lapt op with WIndows 7 for quite a few years now
<penguin42> there are a few that are actually good spec now as well; but still most are pretty poor
<sebThreeM10white> I said  something about the OS  being to basic,  probably shoudn't have said that in a way
<sebThreeM10white> it is basic though by default
<Switches> penguin42: I really like the "pixel" specs
<penguin42> Switches: Yeh, HPe were talking about a nice spec one as well
<Switches> Yeah saw some posts about that and seems Asus got a new one soon aswell
<sebThreeM10white> switches penguin chromebooks are meant to be quite nice with a proper Linux distro on.  however he might have been hmm to be me putting one on so uh
<Switches> lol
<sebThreeM10white> switches penguin42 apparnatly they out sold macs as well going by an article from like last week
<sebThreeM10white> that first time they out sold macs
<Switches> Yeah
<sebThreeM10white> but thats not so suprisng since macs are expensive
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Mostly to schools I think
<sebThreeM10white> and apple has most of its sales as a result from the iphone and ipad
<penguin42> still, it's good they're putting decent spec displays in them - having less than full-HD is IMHO just cheapskating it
<sebThreeM10white> for the chomre book you mean?
<Switches> Well when you look at the panel technology now, yeah it is
<penguin42> yeh
<sebThreeM10white> did bq cheap sake it then to
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Yeh
<sebThreeM10white> or just thought lets have both versions sold at same time
<sebThreeM10white> for the tablet instad of what they did with the phone
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Sorry, I have no sympathy in going below fullHD - ask why they didn't go above fullHD for the high spec version
<sebThreeM10white> came out with the low end bq awuara 4.5 first, then like three months later came out with a bf e5 hd as well ( I hope I can still buy one of those hmm, but not yet (
<Switches> Anything badged as "high spec" should be Full HD atleast
<penguin42> Apple get a lot of sales for just glorious displays they have
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42 you can go above full hd ?  even bigger better resolution ?
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Why not?
<sebThreeM10white> switches pengui42  m10  white so hd,  and m10 black so fhd, are both sold at nearly the same price,  its about 40 pounds price difference thats all
<sebThreeM10white> both devices cost over 200 pounds
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: My phone is 1440x2560 pixels (5.5") - which admittedly is ludicrous (I won it - I probably wouldn't have bought that spec) - but less than full-HD is just silly, and you can easily go more
<Switches> yeah theres a few QHD displays now, My argument about the Full HD was more aimed at things like phones and small tablets, once you get to around 10"+ viewable Full HD should be standard
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: The Chromebook pixel-c is 2560x1800 on 10.2"
<sebThreeM10white> well thist mostly rejected by the fan boys etc Ubnuntu fan boys and so on, is still a nice device, but yes hd
 * sebThreeM10white wonders what kind of difference if any really would notice between  the HD and FHD
<sebThreeM10white> when it comes to resolution
<sebThreeM10white> the screen
<sebThreeM10white> also appantatly yes bq generally come out with lower quality hardware,  compared to say Meizu :)
<sebThreeM10white> if  wanting something more high end thats Ubuntu,  yep Meizu is the way to go for now
<Switches> It's not much pixel density is better the higher you go, but on small screens imo it doesn't pay, especially when you look at the money difference
<sebThreeM10white> switches its not really worth it at times the hgher price you mean for stuff like that?
<sebThreeM10white> with tablets?
<daftykins> i see mr.chatty has an annoying name to match now
<Switches> But then I hardly ever use my phone for anything but calls and texts, my tablet is basically an "ebook reader" lol
<sebThreeM10white> daftykins ha ha you love me really :d :p <3
<daftykins> ;)
<sebThreeM10white> switches indeed ebook readers hmm,  I saw there was something on indiegogo being crowd funded,  but I thought like eh,  I got tablets anyway, so why have that
<penguin42> Switches: I use gmaps/osm on my phone, browse the web/news read on it, even ssh/read my mail
<sebThreeM10white> mreant to havr been a bigger screened e book reade than the usaul size though
<Switches> Unless you have money to burn or you use the tablet a lot, it's not worth it for me. I can get a tablet for like Â£90 that does what I need (maybe less than that if there's a deal on). So paying like Â£200+ for something just for a Full HD is a waste for my use
<sebThreeM10white> switches I see your point, but it's good to have at least one Ubuntu touch device trust me :)
<sebThreeM10white> and a few options now
<sebThreeM10white> for which one to buy :d
<Switches> lol
<sebThreeM10white> or did bq really stop selling the 4.5  and ef hd hmm if so that's stupid]
<Switches> Well once I can get one from EE I will :p
<penguin42> Switches: why buy it from EE though?
<sebThreeM10white> well for the ef hd its stupid.  there are stil people otu there wanting  to buy one of  those or at some stage, that's uhmm me, and I think even popey
<sebThreeM10white> e5 hd hasnt even been sold for a year by them and apparnatly no longer sold hmm
<Switches> I get it with money off cause of my account, that's the only reason :p
<sebThreeM10white> I guess they want people buying m10's now, but  a tablt is not a phone, would be better if they had a ubuntu phone and a tablet on the market
<penguin42> Switches: Oh right, yeh I did that when I got my first smart phone; the ZTE Blade (aka Orange San francisco)
<sebThreeM10white> switches EE/Orange suck I think,  I was so glad to switch away,   had a not good contract for the money from ORange
<Switches> Well I gotta say I like the look of the M5
<sebThreeM10white> I pay about half of what I did with EE for a better deal with Giffgaff :d
 * penguin42 is on a stupidly good ee/orange/t-mobile PAYG deal
<sebThreeM10white> switches the m5? do you mean the Meizu Pro 5?
<Switches> oops yeah the Pro 5
<sebThreeM10white> ok whats your number so I can phone you penguin42  :d  ok that will be ok,  I need daftykins though since he'll get annoyed at me I guess if I do that :d
<Switches> The one Alan been showing off on G+
<Switches> Also the one Alan dropped on Youtube xD
<sebThreeM10white> switches that might have issues with some convergence thing the miracast or whatever it was, but otherwise that will be an awesome device, I have the MX 4 and been using that as my phone for months now
<sebThreeM10white> switches the pro 5 is the upgrade
<Switches> Well popey showed it off connecting to the TV no problems over a MS dongle
<Switches> That's what impressed me with it :p
<Switches> And the performance looks like its right on point
<sebThreeM10white> switches ok so buy one :) ?/
<sebThreeM10white> switches I want to buy a pro 5 eventually, but its reasonably low down on my tech devices I want to buy list, since I have the MX 4,  but since the Mx 4 is good quality I know the pro 5 shoul d be as well
<sebThreeM10white> switches I got to give my address for two intersting crowd funded things, and then should get them next month :d   and something else is already on the verge of coming to me crowd funded
<Switches> Nice one seb!
<Switches> I will buy an Pro 5 once I finish what I have planned for my PC, can't spend way to much :p
<sebThreeM10white> Switches: was a disapointment the LUG meeting earlier, since you didnt turn up h e h :d
<Switches> lol
<sebThreeM10white> switches you should come next month seriously :)  espeically if you want to see some interesting crowd funded stuff, I think I'll have the things I got in mind by then :)
<Switches> Well we will see.
<sebThreeM10white> Switches: most people didnt turn up earlier,  but that happens at timnes, only some turn up  genreally
<sebThreeM10white> switches about 10 people at most which is ashame really,  yars ago before I Went it had  more
<sebThreeM10white> maybe the guy earlier had a point, are people still using LInux or just not that interestd anymore  h e h
<Switches> Well over time peoples lives change they can't always make the time
<sebThreeM10white> switches indeed
<sebThreeM10white> thingshappen other things to do
<sebThreeM10white> people move away as well etc
<Switches> Well I think it's more people just don't have time to attend meetings and the likes, plus everything nowadays seems to be on the net lol
<sebThreeM10white> switches you mentione some stuff a bit, but as long as you can walk around the streets of Bristol a bit,  then sure why not come to the LUG :) ?
<Switches> Maybe we should just get a monthly Mumble server lol
<sebThreeM10white> switches its at a pub, but to get there you'll have to be on the streets a bit I guess he heh
<Switches> Well once I can walk around the streets of bristol I will turn up :p
<sebThreeM10white> switches podcasting can be fun,  unless got annoying people in the background when wanting to podcast,  which is quite likely in my case since where I live currently and who with etc
<Switches> Well i was thinking more just somewhere to sit and chat with a few cans, not a podcast as such :p
<sebThreeM10white> switches maybe but meeting in perosn is still better
<sebThreeM10white> switches have a pint some food etc
<Switches> Yeah I know
<sebThreeM10white> switches altough I dont think the food is pariatuarly good at that pub, but then I Go eat some where else usaully after before going home :d
<Switches> lol
<sebThreeM10white> switches tried a newish place  for my second time earlier,  hadnt been there for months, and oh that ice creame was great :)
<sebThreeM10white> the food was alright to that had
<penguin42> ooh ice cream
<Switches> Well that's good
<sebThreeM10white> switches when I went first time I was disapointed with the menu seemed lacking of stuff etc, but maybe they impved it a bit or something
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42 switches yeah  but not just any ice creame and only veggie or vegan ice creame,  actsaully that whole place its a veggie and vegan  only food place
<sebThreeM10white> one of Bristols four or so places like that
<sebThreeM10white> near  the bus st aiton to which is quite nice :)
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Hey well as long as it's chocolate ice cream....
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42  yeah chocolate brownie I semed to get, in well ice creame they had made them selves that tasted great :)
<sebThreeM10white> and actsually a resoanble amount to
<sebThreeM10white> for what had paid as well unlike certian places
<penguin42> yeh well, I mean there's no point in having a little bit of ice cream
<sebThreeM10white> yeah there's like a indian place around here, well her own indian food etc, I remember having ice cremae there
<sebThreeM10white> but the portion of her own made ice cremae was well not much at all
<sebThreeM10white> about a scoop and that was it uh
<sebThreeM10white> switches yes weather spoons pubs are quite   sucky genreally for food it seems
<sebThreeM10white> switches lug meets up in one so
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42 indeed if buying any ice creame,  you want a good amount, I agree with that :)
<daftykins> this is fun proof why not to ever touch Apple gear, strong language in this video though - some info is a bit out of date too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVAmnV65_zw
<penguin42> daftykins: TBF I don't think any vendor releases test suites
<daftykins> not so much that as the 'replace motherboard' at authorised sites angle
<penguin42> daftykins: I don't know; most places are pretty dumb about it
<penguin42> daftykins: Most repair places don't do component level repair - they just swap boards/modules
<sebThreeM10white> I wonder if there is a bug or something maybe with Ubuntu touch
<sebThreeM10white> where it likes putting the volume back on some kind of default set one or whatever it is that is loud
<sebThreeM10white> when got  a new song on, or that youtube video
<penguin42> sebThreeM10white: Does it only do that if it detects it would be really embarrassing - like if in a library?
<sebThreeM10white> or it does taht sometimes, started doing that to me just now
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-29
<sebThreeM10white> penguin42 maybe I dont know heh, it was load  started trying to play the  apple video.  plus this house sucks for sound,  someone going to sleep or whatever in the other near enough room,  I can imagine them maybe getting annoyed at me if I have the video on now to loud
<sebThreeM10white> well that was a good blast listening to libre.fm :)
<sebThreeM10white> ok back some issues with firefox or whatever
<sebThreeM10white> so as I was saying
<sebThreeM10white> that was a good blast with libre.fm but then started doing that sound issue,  I think after I had skipped a song or something
<sebThreeM10white> or  or or or yes, afater I had adjusted the volume using theh ardware control, that was probably it, I think that's it, then after that, it likes to play all new media on some kind of set default volume that actsully is usually quite high sounding
<mappps> yay
<mappps> getting curtains for my lounge.ony got nets
<mappps> so cant watch tv there during day too sunny
<m0nkey_> diddledan, I've settled on check_mk, the agent support ZFS :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> and todays fact of the day from 80s dos app is about hillary and tensing getting to top of everest...
<Switches> Afternoon all
 * penguin42 starts digesting breakfast; good morning, erm afternoon :-)
<knightwise> Afternoon peeps
<knightwise> Hangin out at the coffee shop here, having tea and punching in over my iPad
<Switches> lol hope the coffee is good atleast knightwise
<knightwise> yep :)
<knightwise> So is the connection :)
<knightwise> and I have a keyboard so , its ok
<Switches> :)
<zmoylan-pi> having tea at the coffee shop... you rebel... :-P
<Switches> Well seems nothing on Twitch worth watching..
<diddledan> wow, thereâs a weird thread happening on the tor-users mailing list right now
<m0nkey_> ?
<diddledan> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2016-May/009366.html
<diddledan> tor-relays, sorry, said the wrong name
<penguin42> diddledan: Is it possible he accidentally installed a package that configured it?
<m0nkey_> Take a look at this.. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394
<lubotu3> Debian bug 825394 in systemd "systemd kill background processes after user logs out" [Normal,Open]
<m0nkey_> It's a systemd dev asking tmux to change their code, because systemd breaks something.
<Switches> systemd just "decided" to change KillUserProcess from the default "no" to a default "yes"
<Switches> Which means on logout of a session it kills everything, including ssh sessions..
<m0nkey_> systemd just broke approx 30 years of behaviour by changing a default parameter. bravo.
<m0nkey_> And then ask other devs to correct their code
<Howard__> Good afternoon, N00b here - just thought I'd check in !
<penguin42> Howard__: Welcome to the party
<Howard__> penguin42: Hi just watching the latest Q and A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIJjEzCs3iM
<Howard__> snappy seems to be core to the phone now.
<Howard__> weell that was good-oh.
<daftykins> o0
<sebThreeM10white> hi
<daftykins> lo
<ball> Mornin'
<user2635> Night
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-22
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/19/new_version_of_os_2_arca_os_5/
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> m00
<brobostigon> meep
<MooDoo> hello all
<SuperMatt> ahoy
<foobarry> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACSWZDXkAAHlgN.jpg:large
<foobarry> wannacry good customer support
<MooDoo> yes I've just seen that lol
<SuperMatt> I've actually heard a lot of good things about ransomeware support
<SuperMatt> I guess it doesn't help to be dicks when you already have the upper hand
<foobarry> their language sounds like english or US english is their first language
<foobarry> except for "overestimated income"
<foobarry> "indeed" is a very englishism
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I have a feeling that there might be something going on behind closed doors to get some of the NHS stuff decrypted without paying a penny
<arsen> NHS should write an email to them like that
<arsen> health service
<arsen> be like 'hiya, please dont kill people'
<arsen> populist ransomeware.
<foobarry> does anyone know if its bad that there's a bees nest under my house?
<foobarry> seen a lot going into the vent brick. my house is vented undenearth
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, you want a professional to deal with that... bees swarm and sting intruders. potentially very dangerous.
 * zmoylan-pi had a wasps nest outside my front door
<SuperMatt> bees don't tend to be too bad. I lived in a place which had a nest, and a couple would come in each day, but they'd die on the window sil pretty quickly, and never did us any harm. If you're worried though, you need the council to come and look at it.
<SuperMatt> There are types of bees which cannot be re/moved because they are protected, but wasps will be booted out the door faster than Will Smith in Fresh Prince
<SuperMatt> Interestingly, Rentokil is one of the biggest pioneers in IOT. They're creating connected traps, which alert as soon as a rodent enters a cage, and can sometimes be collected within the hour. They also use the data to track movements of the animals, to better predict how best to catch them.
<SuperMatt> big data vs small vermin, who will win?
<SuperMatt> That's was a little aide, but I thought some would be interested
<penguin42> but will they evolve
<zmoylan-pi> rats on roller blades with pagers hacking the traps... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Stealing bits of kitchen foil to short things out
<zmoylan-pi> having long learned that the traditional rat method of widdling on it is not good when leccy is involved...
<foobarry> internet search shows that bees are generally ok
<foobarry> and just like being near my flowers
<foobarry> and will go away after a year
<diddledan> http://25.media.tumblr.com/b5f171ad8fc41d81a200aedd5c264a5f/tumblr_mzvqpi9T5f1toejcbo5_250.gif
<diddledan> https://68.media.tumblr.com/f3f092b9cbce2a7215312699646b99a9/tumblr_mr3fq7kSWb1qm1x8bo6_250.gif
<diddledan> and just for good measure: http://68.media.tumblr.com/db60d592f3ddbbaaa85de3c37a65be68/tumblr_inline_n8zmw8W5IE1qg2wxf.gif
<foobarry> i'm not killing them
<foobarry> although that killed my window manager!
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi is killing them
<diddledan> MOYLAN!
<diddledan> KHAAAN
 * diddledan pings zmoylan-pi just to make his pc ping
<sebsebseb> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-23
<acheronuk> yikes. waking up to horrible news!
<KhmerKerry> KhmerKerry
<KhmerKerry> Hi - new to Ubuntu and Xchat is this correct channel for Ubuntu Technical discussions
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<hazrpg> hey all \o
<hazrpg> Has anyone been having problems with their gnome-keyrings? Chrome now keeps asking for my password whenever I login now, but the PAM module for it is enabled. So I'm highly baffled!
<SuperMatt> Nope, no issues
<SuperMatt> but I also don't use Chrome
<diddledan> why would chrome want your password at all?!
<diddledan> and I haven't ever heard of a chrome-related pam module
<diddledan> https://www.petri.com/microsoft-lets-chinas-government-use-encryption-windows-10
<hazrpg> diddledan: It's not a chrome-pam module. Its the PAM module for gnome-keyrings
<hazrpg> i.e. libpam-gnome-keyring
<hazrpg> For some reason, when I login it isn't unlocking the passwords keystore
<diddledan> chrome doesn't use gnome-keyring
<hazrpg> or the login.keystore file
<hazrpg> diddledan: of course it does!
<diddledan> no, it really doesn't
<hazrpg> diddledan: https://prnt.sc/fb55we
<diddledan> well I'll be a monkey's thingy
<hazrpg> The default behaviour is to use gnome or kde keyrings if it finds them, or resort to basic if it can't
<diddledan> ROGER MOORE!!!!!
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40018422
<diddledan> sadface
<zmoylan-pi> non moving eyebrow... :-(
<penguin42> :-(
<diddledan> wtf? manchester had something happen last night?
<diddledan> I've only started looking at the news so I wasn't aware, and still haven't grokked what happened yet
<zmoylan-pi> suicide bomber at a kids concert. 20 dead.
<diddledan> does anyone mind if I swear profusively!?
<diddledan> up to 59 now?
<zmoylan-pi> hey. i'm irish, there's no profanity you can use that will shock me... can't speak for the rest of the channel mind
<diddledan> oh 59 is including injured
<foobarry> roger moore died too
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: nokia are rubbish!
<zmoylan-pi> that's not profanity. that's just your madness showing...
<diddledan> how about this for profanity then?: 4G
<diddledan> and "broadband"
<zmoylan-pi> any time you want to play phone conkers against a nokia let me know...
<diddledan> I guess those are more voodoo
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have said marketing bs...
<zmoylan-pi> not real information... 4g: because you want to hit your data cap in 15 minutes... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> broadband: you have no idea what it is so we'll sell you the version that barely meets the standard and charge you as much as possible with a few hidden fees
<BigRedS> have we got any heartbeat/crm users? I don't seem able to use ocf:heartbeat:Route to set a default route
<diplo> Guessing not :/ made me google it though as I hadn't heard of it before :)
<BigRedS> haha, well, it doesn't appear to work :) Or, at least, didn't in Squeeze :)
<diplo> Not used debian in years! this for work I'm guessing
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm almost exclusively debian now, which is why I'm so quiet in here these days...
<diplo> I was the other way round, but use CentOS for all the servers at work, debian channel anygood? I hated teh centos one that I won't even idle there :)
<BigRedS> Er, I've not even thought to try the debian channels!
<diplo> tbh, most of the IRC channels I'm in are going Very quiet now
<zmoylan-pi> there's been a fair bit of ddosing going on by the leaves and joins in some channels on freenode
<diplo> Have that all set to ignore on mine :)
<Oli> netsplit?
<diplo> I don't see that either
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't look like a normal one as that usually gets flagged as a netsplit.  this was just 90% of a channel leaving and then 5 minuts later rejoining
<diddledan> #go-nuts is getting a lot of flooders pop in, flood, then leave
<diddledan> usually the flood involves mentioning everyone's nickname at least once to annoy the poo out of the population
<diddledan> ho hum. don't you hate when you have a holiday and a builder decides that's the perfect time to schedule some work
<diddledan> as in a holiday where you're not home
<diddledan> hopefully they can reschedule
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-24
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/JoeIngeno/status/867182806769819652
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwi1e> morning brobostigon
<knightwi1e> long time no C
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> yes,
<knightwi1e> hectic times with my company
<knightwi1e> doing super long hours and stuff
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> actually its a :), as thats a sign things are doing well.
<knightwi1e> true. not complaining at all , just not enough time to geek out
<brobostigon> :)
<hazrpg> hey all \o
<hazrpg> Not sure if what I did fixed my chrome/keyring issue, or if it was an update... but thought I'd give everyone an update in case someone else looks for a solution (the solutions on AskUbuntu are rubbish! No one should ever have to put a blank password for the keyring!!)
<hazrpg> I followed the stuff found here to make sure some PAM settings hadn't been messed with: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeKeyring/Pam - obviously this is aimed towards gnome-shell then unity, so checking /etc/pam.d/unity and /etc/pam.d/lightdm as well
<hazrpg> Chrome seems to still take forever to load though, but at least its not waiting on gnome-keyring anymore, and more importantly unlocking when I login successfully :)
<hazrpg> oh, after checking /etc/pam.d/passwd, and all the others, I restarted and I changed my password too using passwd, to make sure both my login and keyring were using the same password.
<SuperMatt> Sounds very convoluted
<SuperMatt> firefox just works
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40027706
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadminjobs/comments/6aalbq/hiring_remote_australian_outback_jackofalltrade/
<foobarry> anyone fancy a change?
<zmoylan-pi> not enough insect spray on the planet...
<diddledan> Microsoft are also doing win32 x86 emulation on a windows build for ARM CPUs https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2017/P4171?wt.mc_id=DX_882763
<zmoylan-pi> whilest win10s won't run win32 apps...
<zmoylan-pi> so you'll need a rasp pi beside your win10s to do that... :-)
<diddledan> it uses the same tech that they currently use for x86 binaries on x64 builds of windows (called WoW or Windows on Windows) in addition to a cpu emulator
 * acemastr slaps daftykins around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
<Oli> The pay on that job seems a little low for essentially becoming an IT hermit
<zmoylan-pi> out of the city with no traffic jams would be enough for some
<Oli> You can work from home and still make significantly more than that.
<Oli> I'll grant you, it's not outback âand that will definitely appealâ but you give up a lot of comfort too for that.
<Oli> It sounds a lot like Firewatch... without the walkie.
<zmoylan-pi> some people like jobs with lots of driving, just not in traffic
<diddledan> hah, if you play this in the app (not the web) you'll get a lightsabre progressbar: https://open.spotify.com/album/6h5p1LLfhcyYHnSVdlghJT
 * acemastr slaps daftykins around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
<acemastr> it's like he ignored me
<acemastr> -d +s
<diddledan> best. episode. ever! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chL2fBZUh8c
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-25
<hazrpg> SuperMatt: The issue wasn't Chrome... the issue was Ubuntu itself! The keyring should have been getting unlocked on login, but wasn't. So my wifi password, etc, couldn't get accessed either without first unlocking the keyring manually.
<hazrpg> I think I spoke too soon about my gnome-keyring issues... PhpStorm is now playing up! Seems if I run "gnome-keyring-daemon --start --replace" everything works fine (albeit that I have to initially type my password in because I get a message saying "login passwords was not unlocked on login").
<hazrpg> looks like this is it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/+bug/1689825
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1689825 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "gnome-keyring not unlocked on boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * acemastr slaps directhex around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
<directhex> hm?
<DJones> Can somebody turn the sun down to gas mark 3 instead of gas mark 5
<penguin42> hmm, time to start off a batch of sorbet making, the problem is the process of making it is hot at the start
<acemastr> gas mark 5... psht
<DJones> I used to love heat, holidays abroad, thermometer melting in the sun at 50C, now I wish it was winter, guve me temperatures below 10C I'm happy, I can sit in the conservatory with the door open reading a book
<diddledan> Windows Defender now runs on Linux: https://github.com/taviso/loadlibrary
<acemastr> 10am, 28c :p
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ImranGarda/status/867710933627490305
<Laney> https://soundcloud.com/peter_walker/ukip-manifesto-launch-booing-of-journalists-questions
<diddledan> wtf? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/05/att-suggests-cutting-game-of-thrones-to-20-minutes-for-mobile-devices/
<zmoylan-pi> people don't have the attention spans they used too... nice shoes by the way...
<diddledan> sorry, I got sidetracked. what were you saying, zmoylan-pi ?
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> something, something, oranges, something... i think...
<diddledan> ooh, squishy!
<diddledan> come here squishy
<diddledan> I love Dory
<diddledan> she's awesome
<diddledan> oh wow. amazing kid is amazing: https://twitter.com/MasonCrossBooks/status/867687194718351360
<zmoylan-pi> flippin liberals... :-P
<diddledan> I like how it starts off all normal and then they whip out the war crime bit
<diddledan> "it's not really that fair. oh yeah, WAR CRIME!"
<zmoylan-pi> i think collective punishments is in the geneva war crimes list
<diddledan> that's what the kid said
<diddledan> they spelt Geneva wrong, but that's ok because they're only a child
<zmoylan-pi> the teacher could probably use that as a technicality to render the claim invalid :-P
<diddledan> if this were a warcrime tribunal, maybe, but I don't think teachers signed up to the geneva conventions anyway so the brutal mass punishment can carry on
<zmoylan-pi> they are government employees...
<diddledan> I really hope they don't start developing chemical, biological, or newcler</gwbush> weapons
<zmoylan-pi> i _did_ have a teacher as a kid who consumed a lot of guiness so that ship has sailed...
<diddledan> I suppose if they eat a hot vindaloo on a sunday night and then let rip in school the next day it would count as using a chemical weapon
<zmoylan-pi> right off for daily walk... o/
<diddledan> \o
<diddledan> Windows Defender sounds passive aggresive when it tells you your pc is clean: "Windows Defender has not found any threats (damn you!)"
<diddledan> I wonder how accurate that is: https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/867851763247972352
<zmoylan-pi> might be wishful thinking, would be nice if she lost
<diddledan> look how teeny that fan is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bYGmolzlc
<zmoylan-pi> looks like a cpu fan of intel piii era to me...
<diddledan> wow. prices! I wonder if I still have mine lying around somewhere (the gfx card) http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xrage+fury+maxx.TRS0&_nkw=rage+fury+maxx&_sacat=0
<diddledan> anywho. tis bed time
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-26
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon>  morning boys and girls.
<vimar> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry> github desktop app is electron. yet they don't make it for linux users :|
<foobarry> https://desktop.github.com/
<foobarry> or perhaps it does work https://github.com/desktop/dugite/pull/45
<popey> we're working on it
<foobarry> \o/
<foobarry> some ppl have it working. nothing official though
<diplo> I always found the github app a bit hungry, defo needs some optimisation
 * popey slaps acemastr 
<acemastr> damnit, beaten
<popey> :)
 * acemastr slaps daftykins around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
 * acemastr slaps directhex around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
<acemastr> not spoken to them in about 8 years and they ignore me :(
<directhex> ._.
<acemastr> he's a live!
<acemastr> How are you?!
 * penguin42 takes acemastr's penguin sized rocket
<zmoylan-pi> it's not just personal... it's a family matter... :-P
<acemastr> get away from my rocket you wannabe fish
<penguin42> acemastr: It's a penguin sized rocket, so that means it's for a penguin
<acemastr> it's the size of a penguin
<acemastr> be a tight squeeze
 * penguin42 lights the blue-touchpaper
<acemastr`> oops, don't try to charge a mifi device with your laptop
<directhex> acemastr`: busy. prepping for the move. lots of paperwork & life reorg.
<acemastr`> move to where?
<acemastr`> i moved too!
<directhex> acemastr`: i'm relocating to the US for work
<diddledan> directhex: easier to just copy the instance and run a directhex in each region. AWS supports this
<diddledan> :-p
<directhex> yeah, but i'm in the azure division at MS, so...
<diddledan> hmm. azure does it too :-p
<diddledan> (I've got some sites hosted on azure - I like the high-tenancy ability of having multiple app services on the same "service plan")
<acemastr`> [10:33:48] <directhex> acemastr`: i'm relocating to the US for work
<acemastr`> where abouts? I moved to Florida 3 years ago
<directhex> massachusetts
<diddledan> to do it on aws you'd need to treat it as a vps hosting
<directhex> yes i'm learning how to spell massachusetts
<acemastr`> ouch :P
<diddledan> mass.
<diddledan> that's easier
<directhex> MA
<acemastr`> couldn't find anywhere warmer? :P
<directhex> i couldn't get MS to pay for somewhere warmer
<directhex> and somewhere warmer wouldn't put me in the same office as my team
<acemastr`> you work for microsoft?!
<diddledan> nowt wrong with that, acemastr`
<acemastr`> not at all, just ironic lol
<acemastr`> given his linux past and.. this channel
<acemastr`> good luck with the move, so far I've found the US a much nicer place to be
<directhex> directhex@flame:~$ pkcs11-tool --module libgtop11dotnet.so.0 -r -d 3f0559b8f3e91c673f8424bf90ef8b71a2aa72c6 -y cert 2> /dev/null | openssl x509 -inform der -noout -text | grep Subject:
<directhex>         Subject: DC=com, DC=microsoft, DC=corp, DC=europe, OU=UserAccounts, CN=Jo Shields
<directhex> smartcard!
<diddledan> speaking of windows: https://twitter.com/jarwidmark/status/867424417994780672
<acemastr`> knew that as soon as 10 was released
<acemastr`> tis fancy
<acemastr`> very unhappy with them removing the control panel link in win-key + x
<directhex> not my department
<foobarry> not my circus , not my monkey
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> oh i believe three delayed "ow" 's are due
 * acemastr slaps daftykins around a bit with a penguin sized rocket
<acemastr> dafty!
<daftykins> heya
<acemastr> how've you been?
<daftykins> heh you caught me in a big period of offlineyness as i'm living in a holiday apartment right now whilst my house is worked on from an insurance job :>
<acemastr> burn it down?
<daftykins> naw lovely water leaks from the bathroom
<daftykins> ah the years haven't been too bad, ta! i see you're stateside now?!
<acemastr> I am, moved to Florida 3 years ago
<daftykins> what prompted that one? that state is too hot and flat for me :>
<acemastr> was in the works for many years, US immigration finally got round to it
<daftykins> the old qnet haunt still around? :)
<acemastr> it is fairly flat, I go dirt biking on some hilly areas though
<daftykins> i heard many impressions of me were done over the years XD
<acemastr> lol, still around, not quite as busy though
<acemastr> 25 people now
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> seem to recall closer to 100 but then there were probably only ever that many active tops
<acemastr> where are you now?
<daftykins> i moved back to Guernsey after Uni and have been here since ^_^
<daftykins> do my self employed small biz IT bit
<acemastr> ohh, what you doing?
<daftykins> or 'paid to watch progress bars' as my software dev mates say :>
<acemastr> sounds like my job
<daftykins> :D last we spoke you were trying to escape retail, sounds like you succeeded!
<acemastr> god, that was a long time ago then, over 8 years
<acemastr> i did support at a small software dev company, then moved here and now work as an IT consultant
<daftykins> vewy gewd
<acemastr> none of this uni crap :P
<daftykins> degrees are definitely a joke
<daftykins> though some of the folks on my course said they'd barely touched MS Office before they came to it - a networking degree
<acemastr> i learn everything when i need it lol
<daftykins> i could do with more clients right now but ah well :> pretty comfy other than that
<acemastr> can never have enough
<daftykins> well i like that i have free time to go watch progress on my house right now
<daftykins> would hate to have a rigid 9-5
<daftykins> did you escape with any family, or leave 'em behind?
<acemastr> my dad's here, has been for 17years
<daftykins> oh yeaaaaaah i remember now
<acemastr> trying to fit grip tape to the frame protector on the dirt bike... this isn't fun
<daftykins> i still stick to the pedal variety myself :>
<acemastr> there's nothing better than a way-too-fast dirt bike on deep sand :P
<daftykins> GTA 1 taught me no bikes!
<acemastr> back down to 2 bikes now :P
<daftykins> whaaaaat, the Queen Mary lives in Long Beach as a permanently stationary hotel?
<daftykins> g'night \o
<diddledan> early!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-27
 * zmoylan-pi rebuilds second wonkiest pc to replace main pc which barfed when i tried to remove 4gb of old kernels...
<penguin42> it barfed during kernel removal?
<zmoylan-pi> yup... took 10 hours and then got stuck in a loop trying and failing to remove some
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Oh, I've seen some of that - although not the barf
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Everytime dpkg removes a kernel it triggers the trigger that updates grub to regenerate the list of kernels
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Now, because you have zillions of kernels installed that takes ages
<zmoylan-pi> after a fsck it booted again but i'm pulling data off it to wipe and go with latest xubuntu
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NhVHMEbodI
<daftykins> http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=12
<daftykins> just wow at the lightning over the Channel right now
<penguin42> we're due it tomorrow
<acemastr> lightning? in england? (ish)
<acemastr> that's rare lol
<daftykins> i did see heavy rain predicted for Sunday, so since i've only just kicked off my roof water leak insurance claim now i'll have to pop home and catch it dripping :P
<penguin42> acemastr: We do get it a few times a year
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points it'll rain fish so you arrive home to an indoor aquariam
<penguin42> there was another occurence of that happening in the news the other day
<zmoylan-pi> i think that was what made it spring to mind... i haven't seen a report in donkeys age
<zmoylan-pi> though there was that shark found inland last year i think
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: had all those kernel packages made you hit an inode limit? :D
<acemastr> we just get aligators crossing the road
<acemastr> some guy ran over one on his motorcycle last week
<zmoylan-pi> we have an infestation of foxes... :-) https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/866280440570814466/photo/1
<penguin42> they are cute though :-)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> ripping out lath and plaster - things i hope to never do again
<DJones> daftykins: Hot, sticky, bitty etc?
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> black stuff coming out of the nose due to the dust, oy
<DJones> Yikes
<zmoylan-pi> i think when you hit the asbestos it's all done... :-P
<daftykins> my Dad thinks i've been lucky not to find any XD
<zmoylan-pi> it was used _everywhere_ in the 60s...
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM7RHrwBQIo
<daftykins> that's my progress vid
<zmoylan-pi> you should be wearing a breathing mask to catch the particles though... cheap at any diy place...
<daftykins> yeah, no time for that though
<daftykins> all done and we move on :>
<zmoylan-pi> sez the diy enthusiast coughing up a lung...
<daftykins> oh i'm not that at all, i just know how much in the hole i am with the contractor already!
<zmoylan-pi> that's why they always charge an arm and a leg, they know how bad the internal organs will be... :-P
<daftykins> they're making the apprentice do it at Â£22/hr
<zmoylan-pi> how much do you charge per hour of i.t. work?
<daftykins> originally i was just going to have thermalboard thrown on top of what was there, but i said nah tear it down - and uncovered the roof leak
<daftykins> depends how awkward they are ;D
<zmoylan-pi> well naturally, but how much for custards?
<daftykins> Â£40/hr has been a long standing rate for old clients, up it for new work though
<zmoylan-pi> ooops theresa may was dragged into the british airways offshoring i.t. row last year... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/24/ba_job_offshoring_gmb_union_hand_delivered_letters/
 * penguin42 would like to know what actually went wrong before blaming them for offshoring it
<penguin42> but saying 'the root cause was a power supply issue' - people do have this thing where they get reliant on one data centre; you should always assume data centres will fail
<diddledan> I'm wondering if it's related to the capita datacentre failure
<diddledan> an entire DC went offline earlier in the week
<daftykins> British Airways didn't seem to do well today, claiming a PSU took down worldwide operations!?
<penguin42> daftykins: I think it's more claiming they lost power as opposed to a PSU
<zmoylan-pi> well it was like the storm problem in new york were they had the diesel generators for backup on a high story and had to hand cart the diesel fuel for a few days up umpteen flights of stairs... you only find the problems with your system when it really goes wrong
<zmoylan-pi> who knew the elevators would stop when the power went?!
<daftykins> could be, i kinda skipped past the heading just now reading some news
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh or the Japanese Nuclear site at Fukushima where the new electric gates wouldn't allow them to get to the fire engines
<zmoylan-pi> it's really complicated... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WHM2rchJ0
<penguin42> damn that's neat
<zmoylan-pi> in our rush to replace things with new and shiny we abandon old working practical tech
<zmoylan-pi> but you wouldn't want it were kids might try and play on it... but i reckon that's frowned upon at a nuclear plant anyway... :-P
<DM8_> Hello. I wonder if anyone can assist. When I connect to my VPN using the network manager, the DNS lookups no longer work. /etc/resolv.conf specifies 127.0.1.1 as nameserver which is dnsmasq service. However, I need to manually add a nameserver of 192.168.1.1 which is my router before my VPN traffic will flow.
<acemastr`> might as well use google's
<acemastr`> not entirely sure what the question is though lol
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<andylockran> afternoon
<andylockran> Anyone got any tips on getting decent internet when openreach don't have any availability in the local cabinet?
<brobostigon> afternoodlings andylockran
<penguin42> andylockran: I'm on Virgin
<penguin42> andylockran: They're customer service aint great, but the bits move fast
<andylockran> Yeah, i'm not in their area :(
<penguin42> andylockran: is your local cab problem that they only have ADSL or is it worse than that?
 * penguin42 has that problem; they didn't bother fibreing up my cab because it's not got many people on
<andylockran> local cab has fibre & asdl
<andylockran> but quality is quickly deteriorating
<penguin42> ah, those problems seem to be almost impossible to get them to fix - is your voice signal clear?
<penguin42> and also, just how bad has it got (on what service?)
<daftykins> when you say fiber at the cab, what do you really mean by that?
<daftykins> backhaul so you can have VDSL services, or?
<penguin42> That's what I meant, (lets check andylockran's meaning as well); our cab is a passive wiring cab; no DSLAM
<daftykins> i'm gonna have scaffold up soon, ideal time to remove some of the 4 phone lines that run across the front of my house :) ripped out extra ones i don't use inside my place \o/
<daftykins> have to be sure not to chop the neighbours one ;)
<penguin42> are you allowed to do that?
<daftykins> well in the same standard as BT, the local telco has the control over everything up to master sockets - but for unused cables there's no service 8D
<daftykins> so probably not, i certainly won't touch the WW2 era terminals of where these cables join onto the ones coming out of the ground
<daftykins> could just snip them back to close to there, though water ingress could potentially ruin them all i suppose
<penguin42> your wires come out of the ground? Weird....
<daftykins> yep, how they should be
<penguin42> ours come from polls
<daftykins> some areas of the island have poles :)
<daftykins> wouldn't fancy that myself though
<penguin42> (cable comes up from the ground)
<penguin42> daftykins: Never had a problem with the use of a pole, I guess it just meant they could put in a whole bunch of houses at once
<daftykins> my house is about 50m from the nearest cabinet though
<daftykins> totally passive one again but then the exchange is about 600m behind that
<andylockran> daftykins: not sure.  I'm on cab 33, if that means owt
<andylockran> want to know what to look for
<daftykins> not to me, i'm not in England :D
<daftykins> but what's your current situation, what service are you on and what do you sync at?
<andylockran> BT
<daftykins> by service i really meant which DSL technology and expected max speeds
<andylockran> saying:  Line state:	Connected
<andylockran> Connection time:	1 days, 12:07:01
<andylockran> Downstream:	12.92 Mbps
<andylockran> Upstream:	771.9 Kbps
<andylockran> but not getting anywhere near that
<daftykins> have you got a proper combo filtered master socket in place, or sketchy sockets with microfilters plugged in?
<andylockran> proper combo filterred master socket
<daftykins> hrmm and the length of cable from where the line enters the property to that is of a decent standard?
<daftykins> also, it doesn't run near any mains wiring
<andylockran> all true - it's been fine since I mvoed in 5 years ago
<andylockran> just gradually got worse
<daftykins> that sync is definitely pretty bad
<daftykins> buuuut if it's a passive cab then it might be all you can expect
<daftykins> i usually like to pop the socket directly onto the pair coming into the property to confirm things
<daftykins> those little grey boxes they put before internal wiring is joined on
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-21
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hows it hangin dude
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
 * brobostigon is getting dressed for a job interview.
<knightwise> Good luck brobostigon ! ! !
<knightwise> May the force be with you
<brobostigon> ty, :)
 * knightwise is having a day off, nerding into my morning by watching the BBS documentary
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> what job are you going for ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: It support, for a medium sized multi office solicitors.
<knightwise> Ok, big tip , make sure you understand a little bit about the office and the processes they have
<knightwise> just go "in know Xyz is important to you because you want to achieve xxx", thats why i think having your xxx system up and running smoothly is important
 * brobostigon has done his research, after the last few days.
<knightwise> understand their pain, ... and offer to fix it
<brobostigon> i have made notes.
<knightwise> awesome , and just be open and confident
<knightwise> gently try to mimic their body language,
<knightwise> lean in when they do, lean out when they do
<knightwise> builds rapport
<brobostigon> certainly.
<knightwise> Good luck dude ! ! :)
<brobostigon> knightwise: ty, :)
<zmoylan-pi> good luck o/
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> diddledan: this time i caught the cat in the act whilst i was on the same side of the kitchen door :D https://imgur.com/a/Lizpi3R
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> that's a brave kitty
<daftykins> once i was up top painting when i saw her lose her hind footing and swing on her front paws around a rung for a moment, it was a bit concerning
<daftykins> that top gap between the scaffold and neighbours wall, she likes to vault over too
<diddledan> she's nuts
<daftykins> a true Guern
<penguin42> does anyone know what: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCWf9I4qnFu2HElT2  is?  before I take it to some flower identification forum
<ali1234> penguin42: i think blackberry or similar
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm not matching what I get when I search for blackberry
<ali1234> the white things are not petals, they are stamen(s?)
<penguin42> oh, possible - although the pictures I see of blackberry flowers  have dark blobs on the end and a noticeable flower rather than the big cone
<ali1234> yes, also you should be able to easily identify it from the spikes
<ali1234> but f/e https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackberry#/media/File:Blackberry_flower_(2).jpg
<ali1234> imagine that if all the petals fell off and a cone grew in the middle
<penguin42> hmm true
<daftykins> Coneheads 3, in a cinema near you
<penguin42> although I'm not sure I see the thick stems of them all over - these are more stalks - almost like a grass
<penguin42> ali1234: Ahha!
<penguin42> ali1234: Searching for white anthers helped
<penguin42> ali1234: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_lanceolata
<ali1234> looks like a match :)
<penguin42> ali1234: Thank you; the fact they weren't petals is the thing that helped
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-22
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> hope interview went well
<brobostigon> o/
<brobostigon> yes, it wasnt bad, i think i made the right impression.
<Knight_Pi> ah  good to hear !
<Knight_Pi> been thinking about how it went
<brobostigon> :)
<Knight_Wrk> been watching the BBS documentary series by Jason Scott , immensly interesting to see how all that used to work
<zmoylan-pi> used to.... they haven't gone away you know... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> for those that can't handle the frantic pace of irc :-D
<zmoylan-pi> rare server room problems... https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/8kzx5p/some_kind_of_explosive_lying_on_the_floor_of/
<Knight_Wrk> watching halt and catch fire while being sshd into my pi at home via my ipad is kinda cool
<Knight_Wrk> ah yes  tha bomb in the serverroom
<Knight_Wrk> we have you the bomb
<Knight_Wrk> all your base now belong to us
<sebsebsebb> popey: ping
<popey> sebsebsebb: pong!
<popey> How are you?
<sebsebsebb> popey: doing another event, was  wondering if could maybe get some ubuntu stuff again ?
<sebsebseb> popey: not sure I can fill in the form etc,  plus its less than fofur weeks now
<popey> What's up with filling the form in?
<sebsebseb> popey: looks like  there's a part which loco are you, that is required to fill in
<popey> so put uk :)
<sebsebseb> popey: also  itless less than four weeks, but hopefully :)
<popey> we review them every wednesday
<sebsebseb> popey: right good so should be seen tommorwo then ?
<popey> yeah, we review them in the afternoon.
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah 9th june is coming up !
<popey> :)
<sebsebseb> popey: you any good at down graidng or  updating  UEFI hp bioses ?  seems that's the only way I will get Linux back on this lap top properly
<popey> Oh dear. No. Not really. I avoid anything UEFI really.
<sebsebseb> same here
<sebsebseb> but
<popey> I think daftykins is a bit of an expert there...
<sebsebseb> after a new otherobard put in from their partner company
<sebsebseb> I haevn't been able to put Linux back on
<sebsebseb> Grub can comoe up on a USB stick or memtest but  then black screen on a kernel
<sebsebseb> live session boot,  black screen. seems someone else had a similar issue  going by a google and down graded the bios
 * sebsebseb but hey at least quassel for windows is working hmm
<sebsebseb> popey: also usb's for ubuntu been totally dropped it seems?  yet  the form does mention having 12 usb's s  sent in one of the options still
<popey> I think we still have some
<sebsebseb> popey: yes I would like usb's sent,  we got 50 some how that other time,  even  if they are just standard usb's for some
<sebsebseb> the two options are a bit eh,   and I don't see a bit to put proepr comments in even uh
<sebsebseb> popey: we want to give out some ubuntu 18.04 usb's.  might get more people this time, since  well partly, since such a nice mention in linux format :)
<popey> i dont think we have any 18.04 usb's
<popey> always nice to get mentions in magazines :)
<sebsebseb> popey: well we can burn our selves
<popey> ok
<sebsebseb> but yes having usb's sent would be great
<sebsebseb> we don't have usbs
<sebsebseb> he h I remember that 50 from before being blank, and had to burn our selve
<daftykins> haha Talk Talk face yet more drama, wow you'd have to have nerves of steel to be with those folks
<penguin42> what have they done now?
<penguin42> oh wps screwup
<daftykins> yeah, slightly less relevant i suppose since ISP-own routers are always going to be iffy
<penguin42> wow, notified of it 4 years ago and done sod all
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> daftykins: It kind of amazes me why; I mean having thousands of the same model, often just a rebrand from another large company, should make it really easy to roll out updates
<diddledan> 4 years ago?!
<diddledan> wow
<daftykins> penguin42: i can only imagine there's some massive optional firmware updates price attached, as i've asked my ISP down here whether there are any updates to the Technicolor branded routers they tend to put out - only to be told nope - but then ISPs in England with the same models have newer versions at times
<zmoylan-pi> not as bad as the jimi hendrix eircom flamingo up... https://seeit.org/eircom/
<zmoylan-pi> free internet \o/
<diddledan> "some clueless muppet"
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: You have to admit that's a pretty random set of lyrics
<daftykins> ah that was very common over here too with some earlier models
<daftykins> oh ok not quite the lyric bit, but just the ability to deduce the key from the SSID :>
<penguin42> https://hackaday.com/2015/12/29/32c3-beyond-your-cable-modem/  was a thing on German cable modems
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> does anyone actually still remember what "CAPTCHA" was supposed to be an acronym of?
<daftykins> of course!
<daftykins> Completely Automated Public Test to tell Computers and Humans Apart
<diddledan> you googled it!
 * penguin42 didn't think he ever knew that
<daftykins> nope just came back with a snack :)
<daftykins> these microwaveable little oat bars that look a bit like flapjack are ace
<daftykins> they come in packs of 2 for about Â£1.60 - Quaker Oats product
<penguin42> hot oat bars?
<daftykins> well it was once i heated it :>
<penguin42> are they intended to be microwavable?
<daftykins> yeah instructions on the pack and all, though the 10 seconds suggested is useless in my 800W
<zmoylan-pi> everything is microwaveable... if it's someone elses microwave... :-)
<penguin42> hmm, is this the 'porridge to go' ?
<daftykins> yeah sounds like the one
<daftykins> Louis hides on twitch for his livestreams these days and then edits them down for youtube later :D www.twitch.tv/rossmanngroup
 * penguin42 hasn't quite figured out what 'stand time' is for in microwaved foods, other than when they might explode
<daftykins> heh yeah, i never do that but do open the door and let it vent out for a few moments before retrieving
<penguin42> it's wise to do it for gloopy stuff
<penguin42> just enough for anything to vent rather than explode when touched
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> weirdly that packet says not to heat longer than the 10s - what could oats do?
<penguin42> daftykins: you know nuclear fusion....
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-23
<knightwise> morning peepz
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mgdm> afternoon
<penguin42> and a warm sunny afternoon it is
<knightwise> on the edge of a thunderstorm here in  .be
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> thunder and lightning
<knightwise> very very frightening
<diddledan> very very
<diddledan> pretty
<mgdm> http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=10 So I see :-)
<diddledan> https://t.co/sF4VZwjiP4
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-24
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<Gargoyle> Mornin' all.
<Gargoyle> I've installed a few different fonts from nerd-fonts, all supposed to be monospaced, but they are showing up as proportional in Font Manager and are not available to use in gnome-terminal. Is there anything that can be done to fix this, or do I have to wait for nerd-fonts to fix them?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-25
<Knight_Wrk> good morning everyone
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<Knight_Wrk> hey zmoylan-pi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-26
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<DJones> Morning/afternoon/evening brobostigon
<brobostigon> evening DJones
<DJones> Evening
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-27
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
