#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-02
<popey> i am building on x86_64
<popey> (and it builds)
<Azelphur> \o/
<popey> you want it built for 10.04?
<shauno> there goes that idea then :)
<Azelphur> popey: that'd only really be a stopcap, I like to keep things up to date
<popey> wow, we must have been through this before
<popey> I have a znc ppa
<Azelphur> oh fun :p
<Azelphur> I really need to check and see if I can build other projects besides znc
 * Azelphur thinks of something to try and build
<popey> cowsay
<Azelphur> is cowsay c++? :P
<hamitron> Azelphur: openoffice? ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: on a server so don't really wanna pull all those dependencies
<hamitron> xorg?
<hamitron> ;p
<shauno> interesting that it didn't die on the same file in both pastes
<Azelphur> yea, it seems to move around
 * TheOpenSourcerer is back from t' pub. A great live band Jazz/Funk stuff. Very enjoyable.
<hamitron> ok
<hamitron> no more minecraft tonight
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 5 hours straight :/
<shauno> I've found weather has kinda solved minecraft for me.  I play until it rains, and then disconnect :/
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I kinda like the weather
<hamitron> I wish snow settled
<hamitron> and that water mod someone showed was cool
<Azelphur> Just tried compiling inspircd, which is also C++
<hamitron> then it could rain to "top up" the ocean
<Azelphur> same crash, my g++ is screwed somehow
<hamitron> does gcc work?
<Azelphur> hamitron: clearly not, I get the same internal compiler error: segmentation fault error, while compiling 4 different versions of ZNC and inspircd
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> does it compile hello world?
<Azelphur> dunno
<ali1234> run it in gcc
<penguin42> Azelphur: Does it seg fault in the same place each time?
<ali1234> i mean gdb
<shauno> hello.cpp is a fine idea.  narrow it down to the simplest case
<gord>  snow does settle doesn't it hamitron? freezes water and puts snow on grass/leaves?
<hamitron> it does?
<hamitron> that just shows how much I've taken notice
<hamitron> :D
<popey> anyone here got a vodafone dongle?
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/yznPjuw3 I probably did it wrong :p
<ali1234> Azelphur: yes
<ali1234> you ran make in gdb
<ali1234> you need to find the g++ command that make runs that causes the crash
<ali1234> and then run that in gdb
<popey> line 101 in that paste?
<ali1234> exactly
<gord> i keep wanting to make an ice-house in minecraft by freezing layers of water, but weather takes so long :(
<ali1234> gotta figure out which directory it was in when it ran it too
<ali1234> make likes to cd a lot
<popey> top level of znc by the look of it
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you run it again do you get exactly the same failure at the same line?
<popey> it references modules/foo
<popey> or rather inspirecd
<popey> -e
<Azelphur> penguin42: nope, It happens in different files pretty much every time
<Azelphur> but it's always Internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if popey ever sleeps?
<popey> rarely
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, then in that case it's much more likely you have bad ram or other hardware - Gcc is very good at finding it
<Azelphur> I've had a feeling I have had bad memory
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> I wonder how I can test that on a server I have no physical access to
<penguin42> Azelphur: Then run memtest86
<popey> uhm
<popey> Azelphur: have you run g++ in gdb yet?
<popey> before assuming its hardware :)
<Azelphur> popey: working on it, not sure how to pass arguments to gdb :p
<ali1234> if it always crashes in a different place it;s not reproducable :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: gdb g++
<popey> gdb g++ -o modules/cmd_unloadmodule.so -pipe -fPIC -DPIC -pedantic -Woverloaded-virtual -Wshadow -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-format-attribute -Wall -O2 -g1 -Iinclude -DMODNAME=cmd_unloadmodule.so -fPIC -shared -rdynamic /home/user/inspircd/src/commands/cmd_unloadmodule.cpp
<ali1234> then run <command line args>
<popey> direct from line 101
<popey> oh, you cant pass them?
<ali1234> popey: no, gdb don't work like that
<popey> bum
<popey> sorry
<ali1234> maybe it does if you pass --
<popey> ah maybe, I was sure I had done something like that
<penguin42> Azelphur: run the g++ command with -v   that shows you the internal subcommands it's running; it's unlikely it's the g++ command itself that's segging
<gord> *turns on u1, destroys hotel internet for all*
<penguin42> Azelphur: But to be honest, if it's segging differently each time I'd run memtest before bothering with gdb
<popey> gdb g++ -o modules/cmd_unloadmodule.so -pipe -fPIC -DPIC -pedantic -Woverloaded-virtual -Wshadow -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-format-attribute -Wall -O2 -g1 -Iinclude -DMODNAME=cmd_unloadmodule.so -fPIC -shared -rdynamic /home/user/inspircd/src/commands/cmd_unloadmodule.cpp
<popey> oops
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/37999/what-is-different-about-the-mac-iso-image/
<popey> guy leaving comments is useless
<popey> why is he bothering
<shauno> that is pretty bad
<Azelphur> still having no luck with gdb D:
<shauno> aw, I don't have enough rep on askubuntu to downvote
<gord> askubuntu.com really likes to destroy my cpu :(
 * popey starts a bounty on that question
<gord> i would guess that its kernel stuff, but i have no idea
<Azelphur> ali1234: it won't build with the g++ command either, it complains about inspircd.h being missind
<gord> upboated
<gord> i earned the critic badge!
<popey> i just earned the "Famous Question" badge :)
<gord> i have nearly enough for reduced advertising, that seems weird
<gord> reducing the number of advertisements of people who use your site a lot?
<ali1234> no, reducing adverts for people who contribute a lot
<ali1234> you can use stack exchange a lot while contributing very little
<Azelphur> on the basis that the crash point continually changes it's highly likely to be memory :p
<ali1234> you can also earn a large amount of rep while using the site very little
<Azelphur> before I bring my host in on this I definitely need to get rsnapshot working, can anyone give me a quick crash course on it?
<hamitron> brb, coffee
 * popey â bed
<Azelphur> useful :p
<gord> is it just me or is the snickers in my minibar laughing at me?
<ali1234> popey: why don't you download the regular ISO and see how it fails? should provide you with an answer :)
<jacobw> uh huh
<shauno> on mine, they both fail in the same place :)
<ali1234> lol hand-wavy
<Azelphur> hmm, I'm trying to get myself access to my servers root account using an ssh key, the guide I'm reading says scp .ssh/id_rsa.pub root@remotebox1.server.com:.ssh/authorized_keys2
<Azelphur> which I translated as scp .ssh/id_rsa.pub from my PC to /root/.ssh/authorizedkeys2
<Azelphur> but I still get a password prompt when attempting to ssh :(
<ali1234> Azelphur: use the seahorse
<Azelphur> the what now? o.O
<ali1234> "passwords and encryption keys"
<ali1234> "my personal keys"
<ali1234> right click your ssh key
<ali1234> "configure key for secure shell"
<ali1234> fill the wizard
<ali1234> done
<lazarus_> trisquel is cool
<ali1234> who?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I broke it, it says couldn't open fd 23: Bad file descriptor Permission denied (publickey, password)
<Azelphur> :(
<ali1234> well... maybe because your server has bad ram?
<Azelphur> I can ssh in on normal users o.O
<Azelphur> also the root account is passwordless, as is the default with ubuntu
<Azelphur> it looks like it's trying something with password which I assume won't work :p
<lazarus_> ali1234: not who is a what
<lazarus_> trisquelgnu linux is cool
<jacobw> its the new gnunewsense
<jacobw> gnewsense even
<penguin42> I did see there was an open bug about ssh failures
<Azelphur> there, got it now following a different guide :)
<Azelphur> anyone got any idea what error (if it even is an error) http://pastebin.com/wrKFDHfW this is?
<Azelphur> never mind I'm just stupid
<hamitron> 16Mb ram disk, 48Mb for OS to use \o/
<hamitron> will cut things down more some other time
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> have anyone got experience with net booting using rpl?
<gaz> bitplane
<gaz> oops
<Azelphur> planes of bits!
 * Azelphur throws a bitplane at hamitron
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron throws a beginners manual to linux at Azelphur
<hamitron> of*
<hamitron> bah
<hamitron> tired :/
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> can't decide how to set things up
<Azelphur> doing an rsnapshot of my server, huge download \o/
<hamitron> on your sky broadband?
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: indeed
<Azelphur> good way to test unlimited, gonna be doing 1MB/sec for the next 10 hours at least I would think
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> so long as it has resume.....
<Azelphur> rsnapshot better have resume or I'm officially declaring it full of fail :P
<hamitron> how big is it?
<shauno> if it's rsync based (which appeared to be, based on your last paste), it'll resume just fine
<hamitron> your collection of data I mean ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: like 40GB
<hamitron> I was gonna offer my vps, but it only has 14Gb free
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I managed to use 1Gb of 500Gb monthly use last month
<hamitron> so i am improving :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: call me when you hit 3TB :P
<hamitron> my vps is the cheapest I could find, and seems ok
<Azelphur> reminds me of my 32MB vps days :)
<hamitron> I had a problem after some upgrades, but the tech support guy was really good
<hamitron> $15 per year for 128Mb vps I like
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not really upto what your server does though
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> I started on a 32mb vps for $8/mo
<Azelphur> it was bad :(
<hamitron> I could live with 32Mb
<hamitron> I was given one by a friend who found it crap
<hamitron> but he was more of a centos guy
<Azelphur> hamitron: I lived in it too, until my VPS host gave me hell :D
<hamitron> the only things I could get working right on it was slackware
<hamitron> my main problem....
<hamitron> it was friends, under their name
<hamitron> so i ddin't feel like I could do wtf I wanted
<hamitron> in case it came back to bite them
<Azelphur> hamitron: mine worked for a while till they oversold the server and someone started 100%ing the CPU to the point that it had 90% packet loss
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> didn't they kick that user?
<Azelphur> at which point the VPS host said "YOUR OUT OF RAM!" and kept on pasting me the output of free -m, which clearly showed I wasn't out of ram.
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=733805 XD
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I'm with buyvm
<Azelphur> that's my review on them, fun fun
<hamitron> I don't expect anything good from them
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> but gives me something to play with
<Azelphur> I didn't expect anything good, but 30-90% packet loss isn't really usable
<hamitron> no
<Azelphur> like, you can't even ssh on that :P
<hamitron> I've been ssh'ed into mine for 4 days fine
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> as I use chrome for main web browsing, then firefox with socks proxy settings
<Azelphur> fun, I do that too
<Azelphur> great minds :P
<hamitron> my vps provider offer a distro with a GUI :/
<hamitron> not tried it, but can't be good
<hamitron> my ping is generally 180ms
<Azelphur> haha, gui on servers for the kiddies :P
<hamitron> I've never had a server with a GUI
<Azelphur> me either
<hamitron> when i started on linux, struggled to get X working, so learnt commands
<hamitron> and actually had a server before a desktop
<Azelphur> I did run a windows 98 server in my bedroom when I was like 13, before I was using Linux :p
<hamitron> 98 server? ;/
<hamitron> no way!
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> 98se.
 * hamitron shakes head
<hamitron> I was on windows 95 on my machines, when I got into linux
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> I used to write bots with mIRC scripting, so I used to have to host them on windows 98 xD
<Azelphur> then I switched to Linux and went "ooo, python" and ported them.
<hamitron> that is 1 thing I have never done, that I would like to
<hamitron> IRC bot stuff
<hamitron> seems to be a things everyone does, that I have missed
<hamitron> thing*
<Azelphur> I'm pretty decent at it, been doing it since I was about 12 years old
<Azelphur> nearly a decade now :D
<hamitron> you use eggdrop now I assume?
<Azelphur> no, I still use python.
<hamitron> I not looked closely, what does eggdrop use?
<hamitron> I assumed it would do different languages
<Azelphur> afaik eggdrop is tcl
<Azelphur> but I've never actually used it
<hamitron> I need to change DNS provider
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> who you with?
<hamitron> 1and1 don't support ipv6
<Azelphur> check out namecheap, I use them and I generally only hear good things about them :P
<hamitron> I don't wanna move away from 1and1
<hamitron> just host the DNS elsewhere
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> oh :p
<hamitron> I used to go to somewhere cheaper, and they just stopped working
<hamitron> site still up, still able to pay them money
<hamitron> but domains don't register
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> namecheap do actually offer freedns
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> yea, I was about to mention that
<hamitron> do they support ipv6?
<hamitron> seems so
<Azelphur> dunno
<hamitron> the problem still remains
<hamitron> not much to be gained from enabling ipv6
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> almost pointless me bothering
<Azelphur> :p
<hamitron> ah ffs
<hamitron> my vps provider removed ubuntu 10.04 basic install
<Azelphur> I hate it when VPS providers mess with the installation
<hamitron> because of a bug in tar that I had
<Azelphur> they so often do really irritating things like enable the root user by default
<hamitron> but easy to fix when you got guys in here ;)
<Azelphur> and remove certain repositories to save bandwith
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but removing the install option is a pain
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 10.10 is too new for me
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> I better not break my 10.04 install i suppose
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> or I'll have to use debian 6
<hamitron> right
<hamitron> need sleep
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron is weak
 * ball staggers around a bit.
<shauno> evening
<shauno> woah, timestamp fail
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> ah he's gone :/
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> In 11.04, whats the other name for Ubuntu Classic Mode /
<kaushal> ?
<kaushal> I mean Ubuntu Classic Mode vs ?
<MartijnVdS> Unity?
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Desktop?
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> Ubuntu Classic Mode vs Ubuntu Desktop
<kaushal> ?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<Knightwise> Morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: took some pics of knights yesterday :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/
<Knightwise> looks fantastic !
<Knightwise> and very hot inside that armor
<MartijnVdS> Probably, yes :)
<Knightwise> but pretty darn cool nonetheless
 * Knightwise decides to have an off-twitter day
<Knightwise> americans and their osama crazyness are a  bit too much for me
<MartijnVdS> s/crazyness/silliness/
<Knightwise> keeps me wondering : who the fanatics are ...
<Knightwise> (just read gwbush's facebook comments)
<Knightwise> God bless .. god this .. god bless .. etc etc
<Knightwise> *shivers*
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: Gawd bless their guns
<Knightwise> allthough some of the retweets are hilarious
<Knightwise>  ( Chuck norris just got back from afganistan etc ..)
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: "Trump will want to see the long-form death certificate"
<Knightwise> LOL
<Knightwise> poor trump
<Knightwise> what they did to him at the dinner was hilarious !
<phonex01> god god god they killed bin laden
<Bin> Hi
<Pendulum> morning
<Bin> good morning
<AlanBell> Bin_Laden: change your nick
<AlanBell> morning all
<Bin_Laden> ohhh why ?
<Bin_Laden> it is just a name ?
<Bin_Laden> ohhh no democracy in ubuntu rooms
<Bin_Laden> shame on you !
<Myrtti> IRC is not a democracy
<Bin_Laden> ok it is just a name
<Bin_Laden> what is the problem with it !!!!!
<Bin_Laden> even bin laden is dead now !
<Myrtti> politics is a sensetive subject and usually ends up in a heated discussion that muddles up the original reason of the channels existance, which is to discuss about Ubuntu
<AlanBell> Bin_Laden: yes, I know, celebrate some other way please
<Myrtti> so we kindly ask people to check their political opinions at the door before joining the discussion
<Bin_Laden> im not celebrating i LOVE bin laden
<Bin_Laden> that is why i use his name
<Myrtti> see, now I think you are trolling
<Bin_Laden> and this a freedom
<Bin_Laden> i will not talk about policy
<Bin_Laden> but please dont tell me to change my nae because this a freedom
<Bin_Laden> nae * name
<Myrtti> good call
 * suprengr thanks AlanBell 
<AlanBell> change your nick and you can talk about stuff that isn't politics
<phonex01> hi it is me bin laden !!!
<phonex01> haha ok i will not talk about policy
<iulian> Hahah.
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 5th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<kvarley> Having difficultly removing a file from a drobo nas unit, the file is write protected aparently. It's a .bin file made by Windows backup, I'm trying to remove it but I can't figure out how to, any ideas of where to start?
<pipa> kvarley, have you tried changing the permissions on the file?
<kvarley> pipa: In the permission tab in nautilus it says they couldn't be determined
<daubers> Morning
<dutchie> josh@betelgeuse:~$ ls /media/titan/
<dutchie> ls: reading directory /media/titan/: Input/output error
<dutchie> josh@betelgeuse:~$ umount /media/titan
<dutchie> /sbin/umount.udisks: no device for /media/titan: No such device
<kvarley> pipa: ls -al gives: drwx------ 1 kevin kevin   0 2011-05-02 21:20 . drwx------ 1 kevin kevin   0 2011-05-02 21:09 .. -r-x------ 1 kevin kevin 528 2010-05-04 16:46 damn.bin
<dutchie> i think i may need a new disk
<pipa> kvarley, have you sudo rm -f [filename]
<kvarley> pipa: Permission Denied
<kvarley> pipa: Trying to recursively delete the folder the file is in gives me "Invalid argument"
<pipa> kvarley, can you sudo chmod 777 damn.bin
<kvarley> pipa: Operation not supported
<kvarley> pipa: I have an idea, I think maybe it's because I'm going through a droboshare to get to the drobo. Gonna go try USB connection directly to the drobo and see if I can delete it afk 5 mins
<hoover> mornin all
<kvarley> pipa: Managed to get rid of it, because it was over the network sudo didn't like it.
<daubers> kvarley: Mounted over NFS?
<kvarley> kvarley: Samba
<kvarley> daubers: Samba - Is that the same thing?
<daubers> kvarley: No.... I don't think samba inherantly understands chmod et al
<kvarley> daubers: Ah ok, well that was my problem. Had to plug into it via USB
<kvarley> Windows was trying to clutch onto me but I destroyed it :)
<daubers> heh
<Pendulum> sorry for disappearing earlier. the net dropped and then the cats settled on me
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hiya dwatkins :)
 * dwatkins is running an anti-malware scan on Windows 7 due to java trojans
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> Seems Mcafee didn't find the malware on this Windows 7 machine - yet another reason to use Ubuntu, I guess :-/
<dwatkins> In fairness, I'm sure if Ubuntu were more popular, it would be a bigger target for malware writers, but it's also more difficult to get trojans or viruses on linux, of course.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: not solely ubuntu, but any gnu/linux distro, and or unix more generally, rather than one specific distro alone.
<dwatkins> yeah, brobostigon - although I get the impression Ubuntu is probably the most popular right now out of all the linux distros on the home desktop.
<dwatkins> I was impressed with Unity's ease of use, which will probably help matters further.
<brobostigon> maybe yes.
<brobostigon> unity is ok,but i doesnt really work aswell,for me, as it could. gnome-shell fits for me better. but mind you, i am a weird creature.
<Psychobudgie> gnome-shell is da bees knees
<popey> I must get around to trying that one day
 * daubers hugs python decorators
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: do you have gnome3 an gnome-shell on highlight?
<dwatkins> I'll suggest gnome-shell to my other half, she may find that a lot more functional than unity
<dwatkins> Is there an easy way to switch between unity, gnome shell and normal gnome?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: not yet, as gnome-session is still broken, and needs fixing.
<Psychobudgie> on highlight?
<popey> dwatkins: not yet
<dwatkins> ah ok, thanks folks
<popey> dwatkins: not sure that's planned anywhere
<popey> maybe in fedora or suse you will be able to ;)
<Psychobudgie> dwatkins - not until unity moves to gnome3
<Psychobudgie> and gnome-shell is technically normal gnome
 * popey downloads GNOME 3 ISO images for openSUSE and Fedora
<dwatkins> ah ok, I wasn't sure, Psychobudgie
<brobostigon> dwatkins: gnome-session withinthe gnome3-teams ppa,is being fixed as we speak, to llow changing betweenthose properly.
<dwatkins> llow, brobostigon?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: allow*
<dwatkins> aha excellent
<brobostigon> dwatkins: be assured, i will report, when it is fixed.
<dwatkins> I was impressed to notice that SLES added options to switch between twm, fluxbox and gnome or kde
<dwatkins> thanks brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> What's a good virus scanner to run on Ubuntu in order to scan a drive containing Windows executables?
<brobostigon> !antivirus
<lubotu3`> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<dwatkins> ah yes, thanks brobostigon
<dwatkins> Samba is exactly what I use. The disk was causing problems until I applied a fix mentioned in the bug report to disable the disk from sleeping.
 * dwatkins begins the process of scanning all his virtual machines and storage 
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: scary?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it's a little daunting, considering the number of virtual machines. I suspect the infection happened on Friday, so it's less of a problem than if it had happened a long time ago.
<daubers> django is lovely, that is all
<brobostigon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid/+junk/saab-hybrid/view/head:/BareSaab1/BareSaabv2/BareSaabv2.pde i have some of the mathematics working now.
<suprengr> boo!
<suprengr> (&hi from 1104)
<AlanBell> yay
<suprengr> o/ AlanBell
<JGJones> Wish Google would just update Picasa for Linux, the latest works just fine in Wine.
<AlanBell> it is just a photo organiser though isn't it?
<suprengr> JGJones: if you check filesystem it always works with wine - no wine before install, install picassa - wine folder appears
<MartijnVdS> libwine
<JGJones> AlanBell, basically yes, but it is fast and does have some useful features that make it worthwhile.
 * suprengr agrees
<JGJones> suprengr, I usually just install Picasa for Linux, and then the latest Picasa for windows under windows and transfer files to replace the "Picasa for Linux"
<JGJones> under wine I mean
<suprengr> ;)
<arsen> erp
<arsen> doenst look like 11.04 has had a good reception
<arsen> googling for upgrade looks like bad news :x
<czajkowski> http://www.ukuug.org/events/opentech2011/
<suprengr> on same [sort of] subject seeing Shotwell still not implenting 'random' in slideshow I checked the status of my bug / brainstorm submission & found they gave up on it because they couldn't understand what a 'random' or 'shuffle' was!
<suprengr> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25199
<suprengr> as in - what a what a 'random' or 'shuffled' display order was :(
<suprengr> even after... "This is a reasonable feature request. I've created a ticket for this in Shotwell's bug database:http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/2198-Adam Dingle, Yorba
<suprengr> http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/2198 refers
 * popey clicks 'Restart' on the 11.04 install on czajkowski's Dell Mini 9
<czajkowski> OMG!
<czajkowski> :D
<popey> logon screen...
<popey> bongo drums
<popey> desktop
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/laurasdellmini9.png
<madfish> hazzah! czajkowski's computer works - but I'm not quite sure what's been going on.#
<bigcalm> Might have to upgrade the Dell laptop to Natty then
<madfish> Merry Bank Holiday BTW!
<dwatkins> nice, popey - wanna run bootchart to see if you can shave a couple seconds off that? ;)
<MartijnVdS> madfish: another one?
<popey> :)
<madfish> MartijnVdS: you're living in the wrong country ;)
<czajkowski> popey: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<czajkowski> May 2nd
<czajkowski> finally some good karma!
<Azelphur> popey: still running that initial rsnapshot haha :p
<Azelphur> I got it working last night \o/
<MartijnVdS> madfish: I'm taking Thursday and Friday off, and I get several days in june for free
<popey> Azelphur: dunno what you're talking about :)
<Azelphur> You suggested I use rsnapshot for server backups, I'm using it now? :D
<popey> czajkowski: you at home?
<Azelphur> initial backup is a huge download, been running for 12+ hours now lol
<madfish> MartijnVdS: nice :)
<Azelphur> at 1MB/sec \o/
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<czajkowski> popey: at least for the next 28 days :p
<popey> want me to drop this off?
<czajkowski> popey: if you could that would be great, but if you're doing stuff I've managed long enough without causing hassle
<czajkowski> popey: does sound work ?
<popey> dunno, lemme try
 * popey pokes Nafallo 
<popey> czajkowski: yes, sound works
<popey> volume keys work
<popey> what else was broken previously?
<czajkowski> that was it..
<czajkowski> whoo I can now skype the mothership
<czajkowski> who knew being able to skype her would make me hapy
<madfish> skype may be closed source and horribly proprietary, but it does make families happy....
<czajkowski> madfish: it really does tbh
<popey> czajkowski: I'll install skype and test that
<czajkowski> and sometimes one needs to just be able to communicate without the drama of explainin about closed source things
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<madfish> czajkowski: very true :)
<dwatkins> I wish there was a equivalent to Skype which used SIP.
<popey> dwatkins: gizmo?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: http://icanblink.com/
<popey> oh, discontinued :(
<madfish> dwatkins: asterisk can do video iirc
<Azelphur> indeed, gizmo died :P
<Azelphur> check out blink :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0R01gP3m0 don't blink!
<popey> was killed more like :(
<madfish> google bought gizmo then killed it
<madfish> (possibly)
<dwatkins> sorry, I should have been more specific, I wish there was an application and a company which provided really-easy-to-setup SIP communication from any desktop PC running linux, windoze or OS X
<popey> :)
<popey> Facetime :)
<dwatkins> google talk seems to work well, though
<popey> eventually
<Azelphur> dwatkins: that is blink
<madfish> ekiga?
<hamitron> does the skype stuff in pidgin work now?
<dwatkins> oh cool, I'll check it out, thanks Azelphur
<madfish> actually, ekiga is windows and linux
<dwatkins> ekiga wouldn't work last time I tried to configure it
<madfish> didn't realise it did windows
<popey> czajkowski: this laptop isn't exactly quick is it :)
<czajkowski> popey: it was on Karmic :s
<czajkowski> hactually hardy
<czajkowski> sorry when I bought it
<czajkowski> what ever the last LTS was
<popey> might be worth trying unity2d
<popey> 8.04
<popey> hardy
<czajkowski> hardy so
<AlanBell> unity-2d is surprisingly good
<czajkowski> all that laptop is used for is for travelling and skype tbh
<czajkowski> so if you think 2d would be faster
<czajkowski> I trust your opinion
<AlanBell> "gosh this is quick" good on a Dell P4 from 2002
<popey> I'll install it and have a play
<popey> its only an apt-get away
<AlanBell> just do it anyway, it gives you another option on the login menu
<popey> yeah
<popey> anyone fancy skyping me to test this laptop?
<AlanBell> sure, just signed in
<JGJones> Ekiga's problem is that it use OPAL for video codecs - so in Ubuntu it is limited to just H.261
<JGJones> it doesn't use gstreamer
<JGJones> however on Windows, it does use H263 and H264.
<AlanBell> I see popey
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> sound is a bit of a struggle
<dwatkins> JGJones: the one thing people cite with skype is the ease of use, I've not found a SIP client that just works like that, sadly
<hamitron> :/
 * suprengr running Unity 2D on a Dell Dimension [old] & finds it as fast as a fast thing going fast.
 * suprengr also running it on early Acer Aspire One - ditto
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/popey.png
<czajkowski> oi thats sams hat
<czajkowski> :)
<andylockran> hey guys!
<andylockran> Made it to the Porterhouse on Thursday, but didn't get there til around 2300, and didn't recognise anyone.  First time I've been at the correct venue on a release party though.. maybe next time eh?
<AlanBell> oops andylockran!
<AlanBell> went earlier than that as I had a train to get
<czajkowski> and food
<czajkowski> :p
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/popey.png
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: cute pic
<hamitron> put the ubuntu hat on to hide bad hair? ;/
<popey> yes
<popey> exactly
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> is that using the proper skype client?
<popey> yes
<popey> i am evil
<popey> etc
<hamitron> no, I was just asking out of interest
<hamitron> :)
<czajkowski> popey: at least it's on a native Ubuntu machine :)
<popey> it isnt
<hamitron> I am all for closed source apps personally, if the distributer feels that way
<popey> I'm on OSX
<czajkowski> :o
<czajkowski> popey: ahh thought it was the mini
<popey> tested that and it does work
<popey> but it seems to have trouble with video
<hamitron> have you tried skype in pidgin?
<popey> goes jittery when the camera is on
<czajkowski> as llong as sound works thats the main thing
<czajkowski> thank you
<ana_> i think i upgraded to the latest ubuntu, 11.04 a few days ago. the theme didn't change then but today suddenly, i switched it on, and it has all changed, menus have disappeared, things are more difficult to find ... and i don't find a way to get it back ...
<ana_> i've gone to "appearance". for a start ..
<ana_> but i can't get the menu bar back on top of the screen with that
<ana_> and the statux bar at the bottom, where my open programs used to be, are gone too
<ana_> i'd like help to get those back ... please
<czajkowski> ana_: menu is now at the side of the screen
<ana_> yes i can see it there
<czajkowski> ana_: if you want log out and change the theme to classic and you're ok
<popey> !classic
<lubotu3`> The default interface in Ubuntu 11.04 is !Unity. You can switch back to regular !Gnome by logging out and clicking on your user name, in the Session box at the bottom of the screen select Ubuntu Classic.
<ana_> thanks will try that - thank you all!
<hamitron> is it a good idea changing back is Markie wants to remove it in the next version?
<hamitron> s/is/if
<ali1234> yes
<Nafallo> popey: hi. let me know in private, cause I'm a little bit busy now.
<popey> Nafallo: server down
<popey> mirror
<hamitron> ali1234: just thinking back to me never moving off the classic start menu from windows 95..... I have found the jump to windows 7 rather tough
<hamitron> kinda of wish I had made the effort to get used to the new XP menu
<ali1234> hamitron: w7 still supports classic star menu
<hamitron> it does?
<ali1234> oh my mistake
<ali1234> you have to download thrid party add on
<hamitron> well, I've spent a few weeks suffering the pain to get to "know" it
<hamitron> so damage is done
<hamitron> ;)
<ana_> seems to have worked, thank you _:)
<ali1234> ah here we go
<ali1234> you can do it without any third party software
<popey> czajkowski: seems okay. what else needs installing / testing ?
<ali1234> just make a shortcut folder, and put whatever you want in it
<popey> wifi works, sound works, camera works. I've installed Unity 2D and thats the default for now, but you can switch on logon as you know
<ali1234> just that windows users consider downloading random shareware apps from the internet "safer and better"
<hamitron> ali1234: I think I am just getting lazier, leaving everything default these days
<czajkowski> popey: thats it
<czajkowski> popey: on the plus side, a clean install and no bugs to report :D
 * hamitron is a huge fan of clean installs
<hamitron> even if the main site advises you to upgrade
<hamitron> ;/
<Nafallo> popey: fixed
<Nafallo> popey: remind me to swap out thttpd later this evening or so (in 3-4 hours)
<czajkowski> Nafallo: all packed yet
<ali1234> i just upgraded a machine to 10.04
<ali1234> when i run update-grub i get this: /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: Couldn't find PV pv2. Check your device.map.
<czajkowski> I really should eat some food other than peanut butter on toast
<hamitron> honey on toast?
<ali1234> oh hang on, i upgraded to 10.10
<DJones> czajkowski: Peanut butter? Just chew on a chair leg, its the same piece of wood, but has slightly more flavour
<ali1234> well, might as well go all the way to 11
<Nafallo> czajkowski: I've been here for DAYS
<Nafallo> czajkowski: as in, arrived Saturday afternoon.
<JGJones> dwatkins, I agree...something like Skype is easy to use...however I *must* have a SIP/H323 client that works with open standards especially as defined by Total Converstaion in EU (for video/text/captioned relay)
<JGJones> dwatkins, Ekiga is one client that already goes a long way to meet almost all, but lack of video codecs kills it
<dwatkins> JGJones: yeah, I guess it needs a company to take responsibility and make a SIP client which is open but can be used with their network to make outgoing POTS calls with calling-cards you pay them for or something.
<hamitron> is there a need for video most of the time? :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm still running that rsnapshot I started running last night XD
<hamitron> hahaha
<hamitron> nutter
<hamitron> ;p
<Azelphur> this is totally one way to test if your ISP has a FUP :D
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> 1MB/sec flat out for the past 14 hours and counting :p
<hamitron> but is it really needed? ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: are backups really needed? silly question is silly :o
<hamitron> yeh, but backups of that kinda are normally not done by a home user? ;/
<Azelphur> backups are needed even if it's one user, let alone if it's ~30,000
<hamitron> kind*
<Azelphur> hamitron: true :p
<hamitron> also, for that amount I would also pay someone at the other end to put on dvd-r for me
<hamitron> ;D
<Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug* it's only 40GB once
<Azelphur> after the initial backup it only downloads incremental changes
<hamitron> only 40Gb......
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> so it'll just be like 200MB/day or something
<dwatkins> My limit used to be 20 GB up or down.
<dwatkins> That's per month.
<Azelphur> haha :p
<Azelphur> I switched to sky, they don't have a FUP
<hamitron> mine is 60Gb down
<dwatkins> I switched to unlimited because we kept breaking it.
<Azelphur> hehe :p
<hamitron> Azelphur: they really have "no" FUP? ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: yep.
<hamitron> that will change if people like you keep appearing
<hamitron> ;)
<DJones> hamitron: Yep, Sky broadband is unlimited
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/broadband/
<Azelphur> "Please note that this Fair Usage Network Management Policy does not apply to Sky Broadband Everyday Lite or Sky Broadband Unlimited."
<Azelphur> :D
<dwatkins> I think BT's limit is actuall 300 GB when you're on their most expensive "unlimited" Broadband package.
<dwatkins> *actually
<dwatkins> I'll switch to BeThere as soon as I can, though.
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I usually burn that in one month, including back when I was on 60GB peak unlimited off peak
<Azelphur> so I managed to do 300GB between midnight and 8am weekdays, and weekends :P
<hamitron> may I ask, wtf you download?
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: everything!
<hamitron> and how you store it?
<Azelphur> hamitron: I just keep buying 1TB+ HDDs
<dwatkins> Download or stream?
<Azelphur> I have 2x1TB and a 2TB
<Azelphur> I'll probably be needing another 2TB before long
<dwatkins> What sort of content are we talking here, if I may be so bold as to ask, Azelphur?
<hamitron> Azelphur: you must delete something then
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I'm a self admitted pirate :p
<Azelphur> hamitron: I never delete anything xD
<dwatkins> Azelphur: ah, I won't touch on that subject again then
<hamitron> but if you download 400Gb per month.....
<Azelphur> dwatkins: but I do get other stuff too, I watch cc movies as well and I play a bunch of games all of which usually have insanely large updates
<hamitron> and you have only a few hdd
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I also stream radio and TV
<hamitron> ah
<dwatkins> I don't pirate software, because I'd be hurting my own employer's bottom line if I did.
<hamitron> TV will be bad I guess
<dwatkins> and because it's wrong and all that, but I'm not lecturing.
<Azelphur> hamitron: but 400GB/month on with a total of 4TB is nearly a year, it's not that far out dude :)
<dwatkins> anyway, I said I wouldn't talk about it so I'll shush :)
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, I usually don't pirate software
<dwatkins> talking of storage, I plan on getting a Drobo.
<Azelphur> I bought all my games legit, I own minecraft etc
<hamitron> I like to buy stuff tbh :/
<Azelphur> Most of the stuff I download is stuff I couldn't purchase legally even if I wanted to
<Azelphur> Because it's not available in this country / not out on DVD yet etc
<hamitron> "yet" ;/
<hamitron> I do download stuff, but buy as soon as it is offered :)
<Azelphur> I would do that, but DVD encryption and region locking has put me off that idea, I'd rather boycott it :p
<hamitron> I do have a huge problem with paying for "download only" things though
 * hamitron just stays with region 2
<Azelphur> I don't, if there was a legit way for me to get all my TV shows and DVD releases direct from the web I'd do it
<Azelphur> but there's nothing like that :(
<hamitron> I like to buy that "physical" disk
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> I don't, I like having space in my bedroom :D
<hamitron> fancy cover and case too
<hamitron> well yes, I do have a slight problem....
<hamitron> I got about 100 pc games with the old style "big box"
<hamitron> and they are spread across 2 rooms in teh house
<hamitron> and I can't flatten them, as I like to keep everything "as new" with all the paper slips and receipts :/
<hamitron> I have a right mess here \o/
<Azelphur> hamitron: ignoring my movie collection, if I was to purchase my TV collection alone on DVD, it would be approximately 224 DVDs
<hamitron> I suppose renting some, then buying the slect few you really want is best
<hamitron> select*
<Azelphur> so if I had a DVD shelf with 3 rows, and they was all standard size DVD cases, I'd have to have a huge 1 meter wide cabinet to make it happen
<hamitron> Azelphur: you can put them in boxes
<hamitron> and rip them onto your comp yourself
<Azelphur> and it'd cost me around Â£2,240 if each DVD was Â£10, which I think is an under estimate
<Azelphur> hamitron: ripping to the comp is illegal now isn't it?
<hamitron> technically, but it is better than downloading them
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> not really, illegal is illegal
<hamitron> if they sue my ass for ripping dvd I bought for personal use, to ease storage, it wouldn't look good
<hamitron> since I bought them for personal use
<hamitron> and they got the money for it
<Azelphur> lets factor my movie collection in too, that's another ~106 DVDs ignoring box sets / extra dvds :p
<Azelphur> that'd bring my DVD case up to 1.5 meters wide
<Azelphur> at an approximate cost of Â£3,300
<hamitron> I only pay Â£3 max, for a dvd.....
<Azelphur> hamitron: even at Â£3/DVD that's still Â£990
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> and?
<Azelphur> then you've got other stuff to worry about like the DVD's getting scratched and you having to rebuy
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> not if you rip them
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> which is illegal :P
<hamitron> and ripping your own dvd is not stealing
<hamitron> it is just slight misuse
<Azelphur> yea it is it requires circumvention of copyright protection which is a DMCA violation
<hamitron> putting a brick through a window is illegal, so is shooting loads of people on the street...... they don't compare
<Azelphur> hamitron: your right they don't, the guy who puts a brick through a window usually gets away with it :)
<Laney> DMCA?!?!?!?!?! what country are we in?
<Azelphur> Laney: haha, good question :p
<hamitron> I don't care legally anyway, I just buy things because I wouldn't want people taking my work for free. makes me feel better
<Azelphur> I get that by spending my money on more cool things made by people who arn't asses :p
<Azelphur> eg buying humble indie bundle for $50
<Azelphur> and minecraft :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: you could vote with your feet, and not use the items from major software companys
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> or movies, or music
<Azelphur> hamitron: I do, I don't pay them :D
<hamitron> or hardware even
<hamitron> ah, but that is not the same
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> pfft
<hamitron> by not using their stuff, you are showing you are principled enough to do without
<Azelphur> yea, I am starting to get to the point where I'll be able to do that :D
<Azelphur> it'll be nice when youtube tv comes along
<hamitron> streaming isn't really an option for me
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug* can always pause n buffer with youtube
<Azelphur> or just youtube-dl
<Azelphur> and it's heavily bandwith optimized so it'll be faster to download/buffer than anything else.
<hamitron> and if I got more internet connections to make it so, I couldn't afford the dvd's with shiny covers and cases ;)
<Azelphur> haha :D
<hamitron> SHINY
<hamitron> ;D
<Azelphur> hamitron: I have a computer for my shiny kicks :)
<hamitron> so i win I think
<hamitron> pfffffft
<hamitron> taking a power station's worth of power
<Azelphur> shiny :p
<hamitron> windy ;p
<hamitron> hair blowing in the air currents caused by your comp
<hamitron> haha
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/April%202011/IMG_20110502_154710.jpg shiny :P
<hamitron> dull ;p http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/lappy.jpg
<Azelphur> hamitron: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Dell_XPS_M1730_Singapore.jpg shiny :P
<hamitron> I like a shiny I can put in a box when I sleep :/
<hamitron> then leave my quiet comp running
<hamitron> :)
<popey> wow, size of that fan
<Azelphur> a computer in a box what?
<Azelphur> popey: the top one? :)
<popey> yeah
<popey> monster
<Azelphur> yea, it's 200mm
<hamitron> Azelphur: dvd's are shiny and can be put in a box while my comp is left running
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> all the fans are pretty big so I can run them really slow. It's very quiet :)
<hamitron> my target is fanless
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> i need quieter fans
<hamitron> and it is gonna happen
<Azelphur> popey: you won't like the fans I just bought for my water cooling system then, haha :D
<popey> heh
<hamitron> the grid of fans you mean? ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea :p
<hamitron> I didn't realise you still had a stock cooler
<Azelphur> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-0usGR-Ok I got 4 of these :)
<hamitron> although, my stock cooler seems fine
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> skip to 3:00 for the short version
<czajkowski> I really wish there was a way to turn off twitter on linkined
<czajkowski> :s
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, my stock cooler isn't fine, I'm switching off of it soon
<hamitron> czajkowski: we will soon live in a virtual world with everything integrated forcibly :/
<Pendulum> czajkowski: you can't remove it?
<hamitron> Azelphur: does yours have a copper base?
<czajkowski> Pendulum: not found a way to block yet
<Pendulum> czajkowski: that sucks.
<czajkowski> Pendulum: I've an evil bf :) http://twitter.com/#!/filace/status/64820876457152512
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea
<Pendulum> now I'm glad I never put my twitter on there to begin with
<hamitron> Azelphur: mine doesn't :/
<hamitron> I was worried at first, but seems fine
<Azelphur> czajkowski: hahaha
<DraKBLuE> hi all
<Azelphur> Are there any free alternatives to ksplice? :p
<AlanBell> yeah, rebooting!
<Azelphur> AlanBell: besides that xD
<hamitron> Azelphur: what you got that can't be rebooted because it is too critical?
<hamitron> teh game server?
<Azelphur> yep
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> game server / irc server / websites
<Azelphur> ZNC takes ages to sync with that many users, a reboot would take at least 15 minutes
<hamitron> suppose you could get a 2nd server, and maybe put the ircd on a vps
<hamitron> then move the vps between servers?
<hamitron> or is there a way to transfer the "state" of it to a temp rig?
<AlanBell> until you want to update the kernel inside the VPS
<hamitron> true
<AlanBell> why not use ksplice?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: they charge, I'm being cheap :(
<AlanBell> install the desktop kernel on the server
<Azelphur> how do you do that? :P
<AlanBell> just install the package I think
<Azelphur> interesting
<hamitron> ircd could be got around by moving users to another server in advance, surely?
<Azelphur> hamitron: at best it'd be a netsplit :/
<hamitron> why would it?
<Azelphur> because that's what happens when you shut down one node on an IRC network?
<hamitron> if no users were on the server, no harm done
<Azelphur> that's called having an empty server? XD
<hamitron> yeh
<Azelphur> that's...useless?
<hamitron> empty it 2 days in advance
<hamitron> reboot, then refill
<Azelphur> (16:36:52) Azelphur: hamitron: at best it'd be a netsplit :/
<hamitron> but no user would know....
<hamitron> not like you are kicking them off
<Azelphur> yea they would? how else would you get them to move
<hamitron> change dns
<Azelphur> people don't reconnect to IRC every 5 seconds I hate to tell you :p
<Azelphur> most people use BNC's/servers with irssi
<hamitron> it isn't a net split if you just shut down the server
<Azelphur> yes it is
<Azelphur> everyone on that server gets disconnected
<hamitron> you don't have users split across multiple server
<Azelphur> and they would then reconnect and join the other one
<hamitron> it would take them less than 1 second....
<Azelphur> so as I said that's a netsplit lol
<hamitron> I consider a netsplit where the link is broken, so users are seperated
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> forcing users to terminate their connection allows them to reconnect to the other server instantly
<Azelphur> I consider shutting down the server while people are using it silly :p
<tombrough> is it me or has gb.archive.ubuntu.com just disappeared off the face ofthe earth?
<Azelphur> tbh it should be a stock thing in server distributions, it kinda voids the whole point of a server if your expected to continually reboot :D
<hamitron> I suppose another option is to use a custom kernel
<Azelphur> tombrough: seems down for me
<tombrough> dns lookup doesn't even return ip address
<hamitron> then only replace it with a new one, when something you know needs fixing, is fixed
<Azelphur> tombrough: does for me
<hamitron> but that requires effort
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> that confused me o.O
<hamitron> a lot of kernel updates are often only changes to things you don't need
<hamitron> or use
<Azelphur> and some of them are security patches o.o
<hamitron> the security ones are ones you need
<Azelphur> I know?
<hamitron> if the security patch is for something in your kernel anyway
<hamitron> I'd personally just use dns records
<Azelphur> dns records solve nothing :p
<hamitron> it minimises the effects
<hamitron> bbl, off out into garage
<BananaMan> question: I'm packaging an application and would like it to appear in the classic menu (10.10).  Is a .desktop file all I need to do this?
<ahayzen> @BananaMan ... I am doing a similar thing (probably a few stages behind) .. but i found that if you added a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications then it will appear ... u just need to then have the right destination for the command eg. in /usr/bin/xxx .. then as long as the script from there points to your project .. which could be in eg. /usr/lib/ .. then it should work :) But i'm not perfectly sure..as I haven't go
<ahayzen> t to that stage yet but that is my understanding of how they system works. Hope that helps Andy
<Azelphur> ali1234: my server fails the quick n dirty memtest86 on this page http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/misc/quick-and-dirty-memtest86
<Azelphur> I get 3 different md5sums :(
<Azelphur> you agree that = 100% broken memory? :p
<popey> Azelphur: doesnt look good
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<Azelphur> I ran that test and got 3 different md5sums.
<popey> so i saw :)
<Azelphur> oh yea, I already said that. oops.
<Azelphur> fired off a mail to my host, the fun begins \o/
<popey> Azelphur: get them to yank the ram from another customer :)
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/1tyfj.jpg \o/
<popey> heh
<BananaMan> When packaging, how do I get an application into the gnome classic menu?
<ali1234> put a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications
<BananaMan> is the .desktop file sufficient on it's own, or do I need to do something to refresh the menus?
<ali1234> .desktop should be enough
<BananaMan> ok
<ali1234> the classic menu widget watches all the directories for new .desktop files
<BananaMan> How often does the menu widget poll?
<BananaMan> Should I be waiting for a while, or does it update more or less instantaneously?
<ali1234> BananaMan: it uses inotify or whatever i guess, so it should be instant
<zleap> hi 11.04 looks nice,  ok i lack unity due to hardware being older but just booted up a  live cd
<popey> zleap: tried unity-2d?
<zleap> er nope
<zleap> do i need to install that from a live cd or when i install it
<hamitron> bk
<hamitron> :D
<zleap> wb hamitron
<hamitron> wow, yahoo have a new webmail interface again
<MartijnVdS> people use yahoo's webmail?
<hamitron> yeh :)
<MartijnVdS> 3 or 4, worldwide? :P
<hamitron> I've kept my original email address and mobile number
<hamitron> as I find it annoying when everyone changes them all the time
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: So have I.. but I moved mail handling to Google Apps :)
<hamitron> I go use google apps for most email, but it just forwards to my yahoo
<hamitron> :/
<Neoti> hi all ... need help .... upgraded ubuntu to 11.04 and my compiz has messed up ... can some one tell me how to reset compiz to defaultfs so i can set up how i had it before... i can not move windows or nothing ....
<hamitron> s/go/do
<Neoti> i should point out im in ubuntu clasic now as did not like unity
<ali1234> people use yahoo because they do not like gmail's threading, and prefer to just top post
<ali1234> this was told to me by a yahoo user
<ali1234> i'm not making it up
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I _love_ gmail's threading
<hamitron> threading? ;/
<ali1234> i know right
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I also love "Send & Archive"
<hamitron> I just like an inbox that email arrives in
<ali1234> but there is a certain type of person who does not actually want to read emails
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: well it shows related messages together, in proper sequence. I don't need more
<hamitron> oh, I like date order
<ali1234> they just hit reply and write "OK" on the top without reading it
<ali1234> yahoo is designed for such people
<ali1234> that's who is using it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah, my project manager at work
<ali1234> for these people gmail's threading makes it harder to do what they do
<MartijnVdS> yes, they should pay attention :)
<gord> evening' guys
<ali1234> or so i'm told
<hamitron> doesn't gmail have date order?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: always
<hamitron> I stick with yahoo mostly because I am too lazy to change all my accounts I have signed up online
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: that's why I have my own domain :)
<ali1234> what should i do when an upgrade fails part way?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Everything just mails there.. and I can redirect it at will :)
<ali1234> oh it's grub-probe again
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: I so want to get to that
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: So do it :)\
<hamitron> I'm never even sure if I have an account when I go somewhere :/
<hamitron> need to spend maybe 3-6 months noting down all my accounts I login to
<fred_> eveing all
<Neoti> can someone help i dont no how to enable my desktop effects... i right click the desktop click on change desktop and  Visual Effects are not there ... the upgrade his kinda scroded my desktop up a little ....
<Neoti> can some one please help me
<suprengr> Neoti - u tried installing compiz settings manager?
<Neoti> i had that installed before the update... i have managed to get most of the settings back but all i want to do now is right click desktop > click visual effects and slect the last one in the list like i did on 10.10 ... however its not there... all i want to enable now are the standard desktop effects from that option if that makes sense
<suprengr> Neoti - check ccsm is not broken [reinstall if needed] but as far as I have so far found on 1104 the right click option on desktop doesn't offer that [& cant remember a version that did actually]
<suprengr> Neoti [but there then again... I'm on very basic [intel on-board] graphics]
<Neoti> this is the tab i mean ... http://www.crankup.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/appearance.jpg
<Neoti> i want to enable the extra settings that is all ... then my desktop is back to how it was
<Neoti> simples
<ali1234> that tab was removed in 11.04
<Neoti> so how do i enable  them then ?
<ali1234> select classic on login screen
<Neoti> i am using the clasic view as did not like the unity thing....
<Neoti> and this screen is now there
<ali1234> it was remvoed
<czajkowski> anyone heard of http://www.fubra.com/
<suprengr> ali1234 - that's why I don't remember a version where it was there... my brain currently not going back that far ;)
<ali1234> you can't remember 1 month ago?
<suprengr> [sssh]
 * suprengr hides head in shame
 * jacobw is connnected on a netbook tethered to EDGE
<suprengr> thinking of desktop bits no longer here... who nicked the current weather indicator gone from time & date in 'panel'?
<jacobw> ~6kbps
<jacobw> i miss that as well suprengr
<Neoti> ok so i have most of the stuff back... but not impressed..... its taken me 10 hours to do this upgrade and get settings bakc etc ..... !!!!! its not put me off ubuntu ... but just not impressed at the moment..... i'll get over it tho ... still some of the features i like ... so all in all i think its good .... upgrade could have gone a little more smoothly ... hehe.......
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3`> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<suprengr> [next line from lubotu3` probably nicks my favourite comeback... "gives me a headache just thinking down to your level]
 * suprengr hugs his Douglas adams books
 * jacobw has just moved in to his new place
 * suprengr sends jacobw a virtual bottle of home warming party wine
<jacobw> :)
<zleap> any idea if start up disk creator can creat dual boot start up disks
<zleap> so i can put both 32 and 64 bit ubuntu on 1 2gb or bigger device
<AlanBell> yes
<zleap> cool
<zleap> so just put a 2nd iso on to it, and don't select erase media
<popey> uhm
<popey> you would need two partitions surely?
<AlanBell> hmm, I might have misunderstood the question
<AlanBell> I did
 * daubers ponders trying Kubuntu again for a little bit
<zleap> AlanBelll like you have with cover cd's you get a menu so you can choose which distro to try out
<AlanBell> I may or may not have been correct, I have no idea :)
<zleap> i am guesing however that it just copies the contents of the iso to the disk,  so if I copy to 2 directories e.g ubuntu11.04-32 and ubuntu11.04-64 and perhaps install grub and point the config file to the right place
<zleap> i will suggest it for the next dclug meet as a mini project
<jacobw> daubers: i've tried kde again recently, gnome just works
<daubers> jacobw: That was my experience last time
 * jacobw is an ex-kde fanboi
<jacobw> in the 3.x days :|
<daubers> KDE just seems to eat so much screen space :(
<hamitron> if so many are against the changes, won't old versions be maintained?
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> er..
<jacobw> no
<hamitron> why?
<daubers> hamitron: The people upset with the changes are just those who shout loudest :) Most of the devs want the changes so the old stuff won't get maintained
<hamitron> then the noisey buggers can learn what they've taken for granted?
<hamitron> ;)
<daubers> There isn't an ânumber of devs
<hamitron> yeh :/
<hamitron> but if there are enough wanting something, there would be
<daubers> Says something about the people making the noise really
<jacobw> it isn't exciting so it would get done
<jacobw> *wouldn't
<hamitron> jacobw: maybe a good point that actually
<hamitron> :)
<daubers> I'm waiting until my desktop is openCL accelerated :)
<hamitron> you only work on something to get it "working", the polishing is tough to motivate yourself
<jacobw> CL?
<daubers> !info python-opencl
<lubotu3`> Package python-opencl does not exist in maverick
<daubers> :(
<Hornet> all desktop envs are going to hell in a handcart tbh
<ali1234> !info python-pyopencl
<hamitron> like CUDA style?
<lubotu3`> python-pyopencl (source: pyopencl): module to access OpenCL parallel computation API. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.92~beta+git20100709-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 298 kB, installed size 1428 kB (Only available for amd64 i386)
<Hornet> nowhere is safe
<jacobw> i think people will be using gnome 2.30 for a few years yet
<daubers> ali1234: Ta
<jacobw> i will be anyway on my machines running debian stable
<daubers> Be interesting to see which way debian swing
<hamitron> if enough users don't make the switch, major financial contributors will step in to provide what that load of users want I'd guess
<Hornet> tbh the speed they update it'll be decades before anyone notices anyway
<jacobw> you mean unity or shell?
<daubers> jacobw: Indeed
<jacobw> almost certainly shell..
<Hornet> hopefully ubuntu will go back to gnome soon
<Hornet> can't see it happening though
<hamitron> daubers: you hoping for the "boring way"? ;)
<jacobw> ubuntu hasn't departed from gnome
<daubers> hamitron: I actually quite like Unity
<hamitron> actually, since debian 6.0 is kinda new, it can't be moving anywhere fast
<Hornet> seems it... unless there's a gubuntu hiding somewhere
<daubers> hamitron: Took me a few weeks to get used to it, but I get a bit lost on a standard gnome desktop now
<ali1234> i like the shell but when ever i point this out i get told "ubuntu is supposed to be for everyone not just what you want"
<hamitron> daubers: I will give it a go when the next LTS comes out for sure, as there is no OS I am super happy with atm
<jacobw> ali1234: which means "i like it how it is so stfu"
<daubers> hamitron: Based on how far it came this release, end of next release should be amazing
<hamitron> then I can't wait :)
<jacobw> 12.04 will be a great LTS
<daubers> hamitron: Did you try the early alphas?
<jacobw> unity/wayland/cloudy stuff
<hamitron> daubers: I haven't been on 10.04 6 months yet
<hamitron> still on 8.04 on some machines
<jacobw> hamitron is behind the curve
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> if I get much more behind, I'll loose sight of the curve ;)
<daubers> hamitron: Seriously, Unity has come on leaps and bounds in the last 6 months, it's kinda staggering how fast its moved
<ali1234> i hear the same thing about empathy too
<hamitron> my guess is, by the time they have 3d sorted in the open source nvidia drivers, ubuntu won't run on my hardware with old cards anyway
<ali1234> "it will improve loads when i we put it in by default"
<ali1234> but none of the problems that prevent me from using it have been fixed yet
<hamitron> I am just hoping ubuntu doesn't rush moving things on
<hamitron> the harm it could do to the acceptance of linux on the desktop could be huge
<ali1234> i wish they would move things forwards instead of backwards
<daubers> I haven't actually used IM for personal use in about 2 years
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> this is what I've been saying...
<hamitron> a lot has improved in the acceptance in recent years
<gordonjcp> hamitron: the Unity desktop is the best advert I've ever seen for Windows XP
<daubers> I had to use WinXP today, forgotten how much had changed in 7/8 years
<hamitron> at least MS will be pulling the plug on XP
<hamitron> :)
<gordonjcp> I can no longer recommend that non-techy users use Ubuntu
<daubers> Noticed things like all the icons being non-resizeable and having noticable black outlines
<gordonjcp> Unity is obviously designed for the uberl33t
<ali1234> gordonjcp: no, unity is designed for people who only open one window of each app
<gordonjcp> ali1234: and can remember the magic incantation to get there
<daubers> gordonjcp: Click the thing in the top left you mean?
<ali1234> it's also designed for people who never learn anything
<ali1234> this is why there is only a search option
<ali1234> and no real menu
<hamitron> I guess the average user will now be more familiar with technology..... with phones and stuff, but are they ready for what has been done?
<ali1234> it's because the designer assumes you cannot ever remember anything and so will prefer to use a slow search engine every time
<gordonjcp> daubers: ... and then what?
<ali1234> gordonjcp: then type what you want, wait for the indexing system to find it, then press return
<hamitron> indexing? :/
<gordonjcp> ali1234: see, that's what happens when you press alt-f2
<gordonjcp> so you need to know the name of the thing you want
<ali1234> gordonjcp: no, alt-f2 gives you a shell prompt
<daubers> gordonjcp: Or click on the applications icon
<gordonjcp> and you need to know that you have to type it in very slowly
<gordonjcp> daubers: I don't know what that is
<ali1234> the dash does a full text search of .desktop files
<gordonjcp> daubers: is that one of the little squares
<gordonjcp> ?
<daubers> gordonjcp: Looks like a magnifying glass with a + in it
<ali1234> so you don't have to type in "seahorse" to get password manager
<gordonjcp> daubers: I don't know what that is
<ali1234> you can type in "password" or "encryption" or "keys"
<gordonjcp> ali1234: well that does kind of make sense
<daubers> gordonjcp: Says "Applications" when you hover over it
<hamitron> what if they user can't type?
<gordonjcp> daubers: that's the only way I can use Unity, hover over everything until it decides to show a tooltip
<hamitron> the*
<ali1234> gordonjcp: it makes sense if you assume that users are idiots who neev the computer to help them find what they want every single time and can never learn for themselves
<gordonjcp> daubers: assuming it ever does
<gordonjcp> ali1234: the alt-f2 box does the same painfully slow searching thing
<daubers> gordonjcp: Does so pretty instantly here...
<hamitron> some people only type 1 char every 2 seconds
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> gordonjcp: yes, i know, that's why i don't like to use that either
<gordonjcp> daubers: right, but it takes a long time to go over every square
<ali1234> gordonjcp: i prefer a menu with everything and not have the icons move around all the time
<daubers> gordonjcp: Second from the bottom (ignoring the bin), thats where that one will  always be
<gordonjcp> daubers: right, but still nothing is labelled
<gordonjcp> it's all just little squares
<daubers> gordonjcp: Once your in that menu, everything is labelled.
<ali1234> that menu sucks
<gordonjcp> daubers: right, but it's just bigger squares with a tiny label
<gordonjcp> it's such a waste of screen real estate
<gordonjcp> I'm only using a 1680x1050 monitor
<ali1234> too much space wasted on "apps you might want to download but probably don't, otherwise you would have done by now"
 * popey files bug 775925
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 775925 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash appears momentarily after a lens closes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775925
<gordonjcp> how about ditching the squares altogether and just having the label, since that's the meaningful bit
<ali1234> between that and the MRU, 2/3 of it is wasted with useless stuff
<daubers> gordonjcp: To >90% of the world the icons can more easily identify with a program
<gordonjcp> daubers: I can't see icons
<ali1234> guess what, every single thing in the MRU is already pinned to the launcher anyway, because i use them all the time
<gordonjcp> daubers: I'm dyslexic, it's quite a common thing
<daubers> gordonjcp: If you just want text, why not just go back to an ncurses based desktop
<gordonjcp> daubers: semiotics are wasted on me
<gordonjcp> I can tell the firefox icon apart because it's mostly orange
<daubers> *sigh*
<popey> Are we in the matrix?
<gordonjcp> daubers: "*sigh*" what?
<ali1234> daubers: recommending a system where the only sane way to launch programs is to type the name over a system where the only sane way tolaunch applications is to type the name...?
<gordonjcp> daubers: they've deliberately redesigned it to be unusable by a fair chunk of the population
<daubers> "Nothing should ever change because I'm used to the old thing and you can't reproduce all of the features of the old thing instantly so I'll be grumpy and stomp my feat and complain but not actually provide any development assistance to add the features I want."
<daubers> Otherwise known as NIMBY
<hamitron> can't we just accept the freedom to choose, and choose? ;/
<gordonjcp> good bloody riddance
<gordonjcp> sorry, do I not have a legitimate reason to complain here/
<popey> yes, you do not
<ali1234> "it's different so it must be better"
<popey> the right place to complain would be the ayatana project
<popey> the design team
<gordonjcp> popey: right, good, glad I could clear that up
<popey> the desktop team
<popey> or bugs
<popey> ranting in here wont fix anything at all realistically will it?
<ali1234> gordonjcp: best bet is buy a ticket to budapest and heckle during the keynote
<gordonjcp> popey: since Unity is now as unusable to me as if it was one of those colour-blindness charts and I was colour blind
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's a thought
<popey> hehe yes, do that ali1234
<gordonjcp> I really wish I wasn't stuck supporting bloody Ubuntu
<popey> there is an accessibility team who want to fix these issues too
<gordonjcp> actually, you know what?  Sod Ubuntu
<hamitron> you can use ubuntu as a core also, then add what you want around it
<popey> That's the spirit!
<ali1234> nobody wants to tweak ubuntu, as i pointed out the other day, if i wanted that, i would start with a distro where it is supported
<hamitron> ali1234: you can use the distro/variation someone makes I suppose
<hamitron> :/
<gordonjcp> ali1234: well this is why I use Arch most of the time
<ali1234> good luck getting anyone to look at your bugs if they don't affect unity
<hamitron> backporting patches/bugfixes is another I suppose
<hamitron> and sticking to old featured s/w
<hamitron> there are always enthusiasts who stay behind
<ali1234> i see a lot of question on AU about "program X won't show up on the launcher" - this is why i hate docks, too unpredictable
<ali1234> keep the launcher and the window list separate and have an entry per window
<ali1234> this is the only sensible way to do it
<ali1234> even OS X does this
<ali1234> even though they have a dock ...
<hamitron> brb, need to click on avg install on comp downstairs
<gordonjcp> right, launchpad deactivated
<gordonjcp> have fun with unity ;-)
<hamitron> bk
<hamitron> so teh super key opens the list of icons on the left?
<ali1234> sometimes
<hamitron> :s
<hamitron> can you disable searching files/folders on The Dash?
<ali1234> sort of
<hamitron> that sorta thing tends to overload my system(s)
<ali1234> you can blacklist every single path in zeitgeist
<hamitron> and I like the look of Workspaces
<ali1234> the UI for it will still be there and the daemon will still run
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> but it just won't work
<hamitron> does anyone know how much launchpad charge for non-free software?
<hamitron> I was wondering the other day, gordon reminded me of it
<hamitron> oh, I've found it this time of looking
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> so how much?
<hamitron> $250/year/project
<hamitron> plus VAT
<hamitron> bargan? ;/
<ali1234> not really
<hamitron> yeh, I was messing
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> do any other website use the launchpad code?
<hamitron> dunno
<hamitron> I just thought, it would be helpful been on launchpad
<hamitron> something many people use
<hamitron> sorta like paying to be in a directory
<X3N> github is pretty cheap for private hosting
<AlanBell> I would consider launchpad private hosting
<X3N> why?
<AlanBell> customer specific stuff
<AlanBell> when doing an openERP deployment we might write some interesting new module that the world can benefit from, which would be totally open
<AlanBell> but there is almost always going to be a module specific to the rollout with basically tweaks and settings in it
<AlanBell> right now in a bzr tree on one of our servers
<ali1234> what's the best way to try a recent gnome-shell?
<ali1234> ah they have a livecd
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-03
<popey> ali1234: they have 3
<popey> well, two I guess
<hamitron> brb, coffee :) feels cold tonight
<brobostigon> good night. sleep well.
<ali1234> hamitron: turns out you can uninstall zeitgeist without breaking unity
<ali1234> dash no longer works though
<hamitron> you tried it?
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> yes, i don't want a file indexing service
<ali1234> never have, never will
<hamitron> me neither, I have too much junk
<ali1234> quite amusing what happens actually
<hamitron> but in an organised way.....
<ali1234> the dash still appears but when you type in it it just "searches" forever
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> and you can't access any of the "more applications" stuff either
<hamitron> does it search network locations too?
<ali1234> probably
<hamitron> that would hurt me
<ali1234> if you can figure out how to attach to one with unity (lol)
<hamitron> haaha
<ali1234> they removed "places"
<ali1234> so there is no way to actually use a network drive now
<hamitron> I use mount :/
<hamitron> or cifsmount
<hamitron> or whatever
<hamitron> I always end up typing smbmount to get the new way
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i just tried using classic for like 10 minutes, or however long it was between logouts
<ali1234> and now i don't like that either
<hamitron> (12:25:58 AM) ali1234 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
<hamitron> (12:27:24 AM) ali1234 [~ajb@robotfuzz.co.uk] entered the room.
<hamitron> that long? ;)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i logged in from classic
<hamitron> only ones I can live with are fluxbox (after some work) and LXDE (if I am lazy)
<hamitron> so normally ends in LXDE
<hamitron> everything else just feels like it does everything but make my coffee
<hamitron> if they made the coffee, I'd forgive them
<ali1234> i do prefer using it without a bottom panel
<hamitron> but just missing something
<ali1234> but having a dock sucks
<hamitron> I guess that helps most on widescreen?
<ali1234> yeah
<hamitron> I think the side idea is sound
<ali1234> wouldn't be a problem if it was still possible to buy a decent none widescreen monitor
<ali1234> having it on the side is fine
<hamitron> yeh :/
<ali1234> except for the issue with dual monitors
<ali1234> what i actually need is unity on primary monitor and gnome-panel on secondary
<hamitron> I see no reason to tell the user where it should be tbh
<ali1234> and make the workspace switcher do an instand switch
<hamitron> is unity side only?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> oh :(
<hamitron> so it would be even worse if you wanted to use a widescreen monitor in portrait mode
<ali1234> yes it would be terrible
<ali1234> hamitron: install gnome-activity-journal and be amazed at exactly what zeitgeist is tracking
<hamitron> wb
<ali1234> hmm that's odd, i reinstalled zeitgeist but the file search icon didn't come back
<ali1234> that is, i reinstalled unity-places-files
<ali1234> it came back this time
<ali1234> odd
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> well the braindead nvidia driver strikes again
<ali1234> it decided that my primary monitor has a refresh rate of 59.95 Hz and the secondary is 60 Hz
<hamitron> braindead.... or just dead? ;/
<ali1234> guess which one it uses when you select sync to vblank
<hamitron> 2nd?
<ali1234> right
<hamitron> I dunno ;/
<hamitron> I've broken the new yahoo mail
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron headbutts desk
<ali1234> cool, i fixed it
<ali1234> for once, there was actually an option to select the display to sync to
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> nice :)
<ali1234> now the tearing is on second monitor, i don't care about that
<hamitron> could it be yahoo charges for email forwarding and pop3..... but imap is free?
<hamitron> :|
<hamitron> ali1234: having fun? ;)
<azelphur_> hamitron, omg
<azelphur_> 4 minutes downtime for ram replacement
<hamitron> get the ircd running then
<hamitron> ;/
<azelphur_> I'm taking the opportunity to do some distribution upgrades.
<hamitron> :(
<azelphur_> hamitron, it fixed the issue though by the looks of it, the md5sums match now
<hamitron> I have just flipped with my vps provider
<hamitron> wicked
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I hate "features" been removed
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> wanna try another distro on my vps
<azelphur_> lol
<hamitron> but can't, knowing they've removed the minimal image I used
<hamitron> also, my account doesn't include the backup option now
<hamitron> gotta pay for it
<azelphur_> :(
<hamitron> so just used tar manually
<hamitron> ;)
<azelphur_> hamitron, time for offsite rsnapshot backups like me?
<azelphur_> haha
 * hamitron downloading the image now
<hamitron> sort of
<hamitron> but mine is only 96Mb
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> well, just under 97
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> even my connection can cope
<azelphur_> haha :D
<hamitron> so now, I'm gonna try another distro
<hamitron> and have the image for teh old distro
<hamitron> and sure can somehow get that back on
<hamitron> moving /bin and stuff
<hamitron> if not, oh well
<azelphur_> hmm, not getting amazing download speeds for the upgrade, only 478KB/sec from a dedi on 100mbit
<azelphur_> what's a good mirror to hit for superfast downloads? :P
<hamitron> from where? ;/
<hamitron> doesn't your provider have a local mirror?
<azelphur_> hamitron, nope
<hamitron> you'd better hope the new kernel works
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> your host fixes your ram, then you got and break the OS \o/
<hamitron> go*
<hamitron> azelphur_: I am getting 20Kb/s off the debian servers
<azelphur_> hamitron, it should work, it's not a modified version of Ubuntu
<hamitron> so consider yourself lucky
<azelphur_> Ubuntu isn't an official option with my provider
<hamitron> ah
<azelphur_> so I just gave them a link to the ISO
<azelphur_> and they installed it
<hamitron> good of them
<hamitron> tbh, dunno why they couldn't offer the option to upload an ISO
<hamitron> that would be cool
<azelphur_> yea, it would :p
<azelphur_> but yea, if it runs stock 10.04
<azelphur_> then it should run stock 11.04
<azelphur_> :)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> why upgrade btw?
<azelphur_> hamitron, because 10.04 old?
<HazRPG> \o all
<HazRPG> still not convinced on 11.04 yet
<HazRPG> some of the ideas are nice... but some of them are pure pants
<HazRPG> and the inconsistencies would make a HCI guy just go mental
<HazRPG> azelphur_: 10.04 is an LTS dued
<HazRPG> s/dued/dude/*
<azelphur_> HazRPG, yea, there's also been shitloads of speed optimizations since then
<HazRPG> azelphur_: also, 11.04 has some power management bugs
<azelphur_> that gets a meh from me it's a server XD
<azelphur_> plugged into a wall
<HazRPG> my laptop isn't though xD
<hamitron> I'm upset my vps only provide 10.10 now
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I want 10.04
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 10.10 just means I gotta use a different version to my other systems
<HazRPG> seriously? They don't support 10.04? that's just madness considering 10.04 server is supported for 5 years!
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but there are 2 bugs in it
<HazRPG> in 10.04? Or 10.10?
<hamitron> and they were causing a lot of users problems
<hamitron> 10.04
<HazRPG> 10.04 is now 10.04.2 though...
<hamitron> I patched one manually
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> tar is broken with the kernel they use
<HazRPG> ouch
<hamitron> so apt-get doesn't work
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> then they fail, its not 10.04's fault
<hamitron> so you are kinda screwed unless you extract it manually elsewhere, then scp it in
<HazRPG> my vps is 10.04 and it works swimmingly :)
<hamitron> they use centos kernel
<ali1234> vps providers like to use crap old kernels
<ali1234> like 2.6.9
<ali1234> and other dumb things
<hamitron> but it is annoying they removed the install option
<hamitron> as there are ways around it
<ali1234> my vps provider does not support anything newer than 8.04
<hamitron> you just need to know basic command line
<ali1234> and if you try to upgrade you can get 8.10
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> but if you go further it dies because their kernel is too old to run a modern glibc
<hamitron> ali1234: have you tried copying the root filesystem manually?
<hamitron> ah
<hamitron> I am tempted to try build a filesystem using linuxfromscratch instructions
<ali1234> basically nothing that they offer on the install page is still supported
<azelphur_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/2011-05-03-031958_570x498_scrot.png
<hamitron> just to be different
<azelphur_> I think my dedi host has invented time travel
<hamitron> ali1234: I guess at least my host is continuely updating support
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just annoying I have to move with it
<azelphur_> hamitron, look at that screenshot lol, how is that even possible
<hamitron> they employ someone very fast
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> and you can bet they aren't paid by the hour
<hamitron> ;D
<azelphur_> haha
<hamitron> they'd round it up for sure
<hamitron> to 1 hour? ;/
<ali1234> how is it possible that you send an email and receive one in the same minute?
<ali1234> i don't know, seem not unlikely
<azelphur_> ali1234, no, they actually replaced the ram
<azelphur_> in that <1 minute period
<HazRPG> I have a feeling they just moved you xD
<ali1234> no, they just migrated your image to another machine
<azelphur_> and all my data? xD
<ali1234> yes
<azelphur_> in <1 minute
<ali1234> sure, why not?
<azelphur_> There's 40GB/sec ethernet now?
<HazRPG> mv /root/server1/azelphur_ /root/server2/azelphur_
<ali1234> um, yes?
<azelphur_> that's new to me o.O
<HazRPG> azelphur_: you do realise they'll probably have fibre internally right?
<azelphur_> yea I guess
<azelphur_> that makes sense as a possible way for how they did it xD
<ali1234> who even knows
<HazRPG> in fact, it would make more sense to have fibre... cos then not only can they shift things just as fast as you seen... but it means they're not going to be totally bombed down with traffic issues with 1M++ servers
<ali1234> replacing the ram in under 4 minutes isn't exactly difficult either
<HazRPG> (exaggerated for effect)
<azelphur_> ali1234, it's not 4 minutes, it's less than 60 seconds
<azelphur_> the time stamp on the emails is the same :P
<ali1234> it's not like they have to start unscrewing a stupid PC case with all neon lights and stuff in it
<HazRPG> replacing ram isn't hard, and doesn't take time... but to get someone to the right server and replace in under a minute is a bit too optimistic
<azelphur_> HazRPG, indeed
<hamitron> Arch (beta unsupported), CentOS 5.6, Debian 5 (with known problems), Debian 6, DesktopOS (CentOS based), Fedora 14, Slackware 13.1 (beta unsupported), ubuntu 9.10 (with known problems), ubuntu 10.04 LAMP (with known problems), Ubuntu 10.10
<ali1234> yeah why would they take the server down and then wander out to where it is?
<hamitron> so basically most aren't supported to work?
<ali1234> all this proves is that some guy was able to replace the ram in the same time it takes you to open firefox and write an email
<hamitron> azelphur_: guess you *did* keep that 100% uptime
<ali1234> which isn't saying much
<ali1234> meh
 * hamitron can type faster than replace ram
<hamitron> does wonders for their stats I guess
<HazRPG> replacing ram doesn't take much time... esp in a server environment
<ali1234> also no guarantee that the clocks are in sync
<HazRPG> *pull out rack... pull out ram... put in new ram... power on*
<azelphur_> hamitron, :P
<HazRPG> that wouldn't take more than a minute
<ali1234> of course it wouldn't
<HazRPG> but to do that and write an email and to find the right server...
<ali1234> the emails are obviously automated
<azelphur_> Still, customer support that raises questions about being physically possible has to be amazingly awesome
<HazRPG> azelphur_: agreed
<azelphur_> xD
<HazRPG> azelphur_: dude, seriously check the timestamps!
<HazRPG> azelphur_: I wanna know how many seconds it was! :P
<azelphur_> HazRPG, how can I check them?
<azelphur_> it doesn't say in gmail :(
<HazRPG> show details :P
<HazRPG> click the show details bit
<azelphur_> nope, show details doesn't show seconds either :(
<ali1234> show original
<ali1234> read headers
<HazRPG> show original ungarbled version
<azelphur_> where's that at?
<HazRPG> click the arrow
<HazRPG> (where it says reply - but click the actual arrow)
<azelphur_> ah :)
<HazRPG> and pick "Show original")
<HazRPG> and it'll show you the headers in the message and its true html stuff
<azelphur_> My email at Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 02:34:47 +0100
<azelphur_> theirs at Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:34:46 -0400
<azelphur_> wat...
<HazRPG> there's your reason dude ;)
<HazRPG> their server times are different
<azelphur_> yea
<azelphur_> one of the relays says  Mon, 2 May 2011 18:35:32 -0700 (PDT)
<azelphur_> so still <1 minute anyway.
<HazRPG> that could have been anywhere between 1-5 minutes
<HazRPG> I knew there was a reason I always sync my times up to the same server xD
<azelphur_> lol
<HazRPG> www.pool.ntp.org
<HazRPG> ftw \o/
<HazRPG> shame not everyone uses them tho
<HazRPG> my mage I drew on the computer 2 years ago is now in my minecraft server \o/ http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/minecraft/2011-05-02_04.07.10.png
<ali1234> "mages gonna mage"
<azelphur_> HazRPG, win :D
<HazRPG> ali1234: ?
<ali1234> http://twenty-somethingtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/haters_gonna_hate.gif
<HazRPG> ah
<ali1234> i dunno why it just reminded me of that
<HazRPG> heh
<hamitron> 4am
<hamitron> bed time o/
<azelphur_> ali1234, hamitron mentioned that for game servers it might be more sensible to use the desktop kernel, because the server kernel is optimized for throughput rather than latency, and also I can get free ksplice. Thoughts?
<ali1234> i dunno
<azelphur_> very thoughtful :p
<MartijnVdS> try & compare
<MartijnVdS> I don't think you'll see a difference
<MartijnVdS> also, ksplice is SCARY
<livingdaylight> just (finally) installed 11.04. I'm quite liking the new mac feel to Ubuntu
<kaushal> Hi
<livingdaylight> is it possible to configure the side panel?
<livingdaylight> hi kaushal
<kaushal> I have a Thunderbird message which contains .csv file as an attachment and needs to be pushed to a web server automatically
<kaushal> is that doable ?
<kaushal> this message is stored in the inbox
<livingdaylight> kaushal, just exploring the new mac-feel /look ubunt 11.04 here. Are you using unity or have you switched back to the old gnome-style?
<kaushal> and comes as an attachment
<kaushal> livingdaylight: please suggest
<kaushal> livingdaylight: I have not tried the new 11.04
<livingdaylight> kaushal, don't know about that - sorry. Are you still on 10.10 ?
<kaushal> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> kaushal: You'll probably need to write a Thunderbird extension to do that. Suggest joining #thunderbird
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning BTW
<AlanBell> morning all
<Pendulum> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski *gentle poke* just until you're better :D
<czajkowski> :)
<KrisDouglas> Good morning
<dwatkins> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning.
<JamesTait> Good morning, people!
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<popey> morning all
<brobostigon> morning popey
<MooDoo> morning popey are you well?
<s-fox> o/ MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: good morning ma'am :)
<s-fox> How are you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm very well thanks, what about your good self?
<popey> tickety boo thanks MooDoo
<MooDoo> popey: brill :D
<s-fox> Just started work, sifting though my inbox attempting to find anything important
<s-fox> But I am okay thank you for asking
<MooDoo> s-fox: you're most welcome :)
<s-fox> Did you have a good vacation MooDoo ?  The weather was very good.
<MooDoo> s-fox: i was working the weekends so i only had the bank hols of, but when i was off i did have a good time.  Did you get up to anything?
<oimon> do SSD drives really fail that much? reading popey's tweet about SSDs
<BigRedS> oimon: I keep hearing <1yr failure times, but I've not yet seen anyone claim to have calculated an average
<s-fox> A few things yes. I tried to stay afk for most of it. Think I did okay.  I spent most of it at the gym, out shopping with friends and reading.  I did touch my computer yesterday to finish up the zenix artwork in time for the next release. :) MooDoo
<oimon> BigRedS: it's a ridiculously high rate IMO
<MooDoo> s-fox: sounds pleasant :D
<s-fox> Oh and basement cat had more playtime than normal since I was in ;) MooDoo
<BigRedS> oimon: well, it depends how well you can deal with hdd death
<MooDoo> s-fox: yay :)
<BigRedS> I know a couple of people who reckon the performance increase is worth it for having to reimage a disk every so often
<oimon> at that rate, even RAID 6 on a data array might not be enough
<oimon> i feel that manufacturers get sloppy on these things, like laptop battery half-life of around 1 yr , we all seem to accept
<MooDoo> s-fox: plans for today?  chill and relax?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I finish work at 18:00 . When I get home I am going to be correcting a bug in the zenix installer. :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: zenix? the ubuntu remix?
<s-fox> MooDoo,  Well it was ubuntu, then swapped to Debian Squeeze ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox:  zenix-os.net?
<s-fox> Yes,  the new site is not live yet.  It has been overhauled completely.  New site, new forum, new everything really. lmao.
<MooDoo> s-fox: ah :D
<s-fox> I can link you to RC2 if you want to try it MooDoo
<s-fox> MooDoo,  http://bodhizazen.net/zenix-RC2.iso
<MooDoo> s-fox: thanks, i might just do that :)
<s-fox> If you find any bugs, please either let me know or pop into #zenix and report them to bodhi.zazen
<s-fox> We found a nice one yesterday with awesome and keymapping on live cd
<popey> s-fox: what's zenix?
<MooDoo> popey: alternate os
<popey> well duh
<MooDoo> it's not the xenix unix that i was thinking about earlier ;)
<popey> ah, it has a website
<popey> so it's ubuntu plus a firewall and some firefox bookmarks?
<s-fox> popey,  it was.
<s-fox> Was being important ;)
<popey> so its debian plus a firewall and some firefox bookmarks?
<s-fox> popey,  well we are not running firefox but yes. It is designed to be lightweight.
<s-fox> Give it a whirl ;)
<popey> sorry, i was going by http://zenix-os.net/
<s-fox> popey,  Website seriously outdated. New pages will be up soon, as soon as we are finished with the iso's
<popey> thanks, but no :)
<dutchie> !ping
<dutchie> is lubotu3` ill?
<popey> I quite like Ubuntu
<lubotu3`> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<s-fox> lol
<dutchie> ah, better now
<dutchie> hmm, this dpkg process really does not want to die
 * dutchie will try a reboot after lectures
<popey> hello envygeeks
<envygeeks> Morning Alan.
<envygeeks> You know my name why not call me out :P
<envygeeks> So popey, you ready for a good session today?
<Laney> O_O
<popey> envygeeks: call you out?
<popey> envygeeks: it's common convention to use peoples irc nicknames on irc
<popey> especially given the wonderful tab completion of irc clients
<envygeeks> popey: ah yes, I forget you guys aren't privy to my special language yet, I meant use my name :P
<popey> envygeeks: The CC meeting? it's another 9:45 hours away iirc.
<popey> er, make that 11:15
<popey> or something
<popey> Tue May  3 09:44:25 UTC 2011
<popey> oh I give up :)
<envygeeks> I mean Open Week, I've decided to chim in this time (well this week) for the first time
<popey> not seen the calendar for today
 * popey checks
<popey> heh "U1 is awesome" - that'll me amusing
<popey> I anticipate a lot of dropbox fans will turn up and provide counter arguments to that assertion
<AlanBell> u1 could be awesome if you forget about the file syncing thing
<envygeeks> I'll be one of them.  I have a lot of questions about user security, one of which I asked yesterday which I didn't like the answer to
<popey> heh
<dutchie> i find u1 file syncing perfectly satisfactory fwiw
<dutchie> about the only thing i actually do use it for
<popey> not sure the guy taking the session will know tbh envygeeks
<popey> dutchie: useful if you only use ubuntu
<dutchie> popey: yeah
<dutchie> need to think about upgrading at some point
<dutchie> anyway, lecture
<dutchie> s
<envygeeks> popey, dutchie and AlanBell: It does have a few sync problems, mostly with heavy write syncs.  We use Dropbox here to sync an AES database with client passwords across all computers, U1 had some troubles keeping up with the writes and we got really out of sync.
<popey> envygeeks: do you have some kind of app to manage your passwords or is it just a plain text file, encrypted?
 * popey wants a better way to store passwords
<envygeeks> popey: we write from 1Password using 1Password anywhere (which was started on a Windows laptop I have)
 * popey takes a look at that
<envygeeks> Popey: http://agilewebsolutions.com/onepassword/win * http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html
<popey> no ubuntu version I take it?
<envygeeks> Not yet, even though they say they don't plan to support Linux, they hint at Global support around the map in their "What we need to do" speech about what they expect from their software
<popey> cool
<envygeeks> They kept denying the Windows version till the day they sprung it on the world
<popey> haha
<envygeeks> popey: http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/645-1password-for-linux-dont-hurt-me-lol/ << this thread says you can run Windows version in Wine too
<gord> morning all
<envygeeks> morning
<brobostigon> morning gord
<oimon> bug 743494
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 743494 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Natty) "Did not store passwords" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743494
<oimon> hmm changelog in lucid still says otherwise
<livingdaylight> dropbox icon doesn't paint properly on panel since insall of 11.04
<envygeeks> oimon: Natty came after Lucid so you'll need to backport the fix into Lucid.
<oimon> back to firefox then
<DJones> oimon: I've not had any problems with passwords not being stored using chromium-browser in either maverick or natty
<envygeeks> @oimon it was fixed in Natty so of course you won't have problems :P his problem is with Lucid though (I assume based on his comment)
<davmor2> Morning all nice weekend foreveryone?
<seeker> Still the weekend for me \o/
<oimon> DJones: which version u have?
<DJones> oimon: I'm not on the machine to check, but should be the default version from the repo
<oimon> DJones: envygeeks, actually the changelog didn't show the latest iteration at the top: update manager just gave me v 11.0.696.57, which should fix the problem
<oimon> panic over :D although i think chromium uses more mem than firefox4 even :(
<envygeeks> @oimon there is a Javascript memory leak lots of users are reporting with web 2.0 sites in ff4 though it's unconfirmed as far as I know the exact cause I do know there is a mem leak. users of all operating systems are reporting almost 2GB+ for ff
<dogmatic69> o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka
<DJones> oimon: I've not tried ff4 on ubuntu yet, I like chromium/chrome, haven't noticed any memory problems (although having just upgraded to 4gb hopefully I won't)
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreet geeza!
<Chris_London> Afternoon all.  Could someone please point me in the right direction for a 'moving engine' screensaver that was in Jaunty?
<davmor2> MooDoo: good weekend?
<MooDoo> davmor2: i was working sat and sun, but monday was ok, trying to persuade my mates that unity is good, it's just different
<davmor2> MooDoo: tape them to a chair, super glue their eyes open and play youtube videos of it being used to them contently for 48 hours if that fails you could always try electrocution #Hardcore_Ubuntu_Advocacy for more ideas ;)
<BigRedS> Chris_London: that the one showing various cylinder layouts?
<MooDoo> davmor2: rock on...love it
<envygeeks> Never gonna give you up
<envygeeks> Never gonna let you down
<Chris_London> yes BigRed, that's the one.
<davmor2> envygeeks: you muppet stop trying to rickroll people via irc
<DJones> Heh Silly email "My Norton Antivirus free version is about to expire, click >here< to renew" Ermmmmm I think not
<envygeeks> davmor2: I can't help it, I get bored :(
<dogmatic69> DJones: seems legit
<DJones> dogmatic69: It is legit, but why would I pay to use Norton when there are free antivirus software available that doesn't slow things down to a crawl anyway (for the maybe once a month I log into win 7 anyway)
<envygeeks> DJones: My computer is too fast, sometimes I prefer it to slow down, perhaps that's what they want you to do? Did they figure out that you might have an i7?
<DJones> envygeeks: Well its got an i3, but even so, default installation junk, I've only left on because I've not been bothered removing it yet, probably stick AVG or Security Essentials on when I get round to clearing the windows side
<davmor2> envygeeks: Use windows for 24 hours that should give you enough slow down :)
<envygeeks> DJones: I'm not big Microsoft fan myself, I am die hard Linux but on my one Windows machine I will say, Microsoft security essentials is legit.  It's even VB100.  Microsoft put a lot of work into making sure it would be good.  I give them props on Security Essentials.
<MartijnVdS> Run one of those "CPU burning" tools, setiathome, distributed.net
<DJones> envygeeks: Agreed, on the other machines in the house with Windows, I've put security essentials on them, certainly had any reason to complain about them.  Even my wifes heavy facebook "click this random link" problems haven't gone wrong
<DJones> AlanBell: A week or so back we were talking about the different Alt+tab, super key options etc for Unity, was there one for enabling super & tab to give a app switcher that moved things across the screen
<AlanBell> shift switcher
<DJones> Thanks, couldn't remember which one it was, need to enable it on my wifes laptop
<oimon> DJones: solaris used to have an application called xworms which was as efficient as norton anti virus - do you know it?
<DJones> oimon: No, can't say I've heard of it
<oimon> DJones: it was an X app to slow down your CPU. caught as many viruses as NAV too
<DJones> heh
<livingdaylight> hi
<livingdaylight> not exactly ubuntu related, but would anyone know whether I can replace my virgin media coaxial adaptor with a 2-way coaxial splitter?
<livingdaylight> wondering whether these things are standard or whether VM has specific ones for internet and tv / phone
<popey> livingdaylight: you can get generic splitters from places like maplin
<BigRedS> my word Thunderbird 3's search thingy is useless
<livingdaylight> popey, yes, I noticed, on ebay too... I just wondered whether they would do the job? whether they were compatible and didn't diminish broadband quality/signal at all or whether VM used other than generic splitters - thanks
<popey> yes, i use one
<BigRedS> or just utterly incompatible with how I search for things
<livingdaylight> popey, you do? kewl... after we upgraded our broadband to 30mb we had issues and while i was out and partner was in, they came and ripped one of the boxes out. Currently we have one coaxial adaptor/box and two cables and have to switch 'em round depending on whether we want tv or broadband
<popey> interesting, I'm going to 30Mb this week
<livingdaylight> they figured the extra box created a surcharge which was diminishing and compromising optimal 30mb performance
<livingdaylight> its only been hassle so far, but hopefully it will be worth it in the end; as yet not noticed any benefit from our previous 10mb speeds
<popey> that doesnt sound good
<livingdaylight> popey, like that? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150367542756
<popey> yes, exactly like that
<livingdaylight> thank you!
<popey> np
<livingdaylight> popey, paying Â£23.50 for 6 months before moving to the full whack of Â£28.00 pcm (or 28.50??)
<livingdaylight> Â£23.50 pcm for 6 months I should precise...
 * gord calls popey a show off, 30mb indeed
<livingdaylight> we were paying Â£21.00 or so for 10mb so for a couple pounds more 30mb seemed worth it, as we do use it a lot
<livingdaylight> gord, you still on the 56k dialup? ;)
<livingdaylight> I remember having a 14.4 dialup and wondering when and how I was going to get my hands on a cutting-edge 56k dialup
<oimon> who's ever heard of the other 9 most wanted? http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten
<DJones> oimon: I haven't, but I wonder who's claiming the $25M reward for the apprehension of Bin laden
<oimon> obama :D
<wintellect> DJones: perhaps they'll check the killing bullet and give it to the shooter
<oimon> the helicopter they trashed must have cost a few quid
<livingdaylight> as far as I know osama ( started writing obama, lol)  never even admitted responsibility for any part of 9/11.
<oimon> here we go...
<oimon> already heard teenagers on the train saying "i don't believe he's dead, cos i never saw photos, so i deffo aint going to no olympics this year"
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Good. Fewer people at oversponsored mass-marketing event.
<oimon> i work about 1mile from the olmypics but won't be going due to prices and lack of choice
<oimon> and the fact that a lot of events are in fact very boring
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Olympics = marketing for sponsors, not much else
<BigRedS> I intended to rent out my room for the Olympics and go somewhere nice and quiet
<BigRedS> but then I moved out of London, so it seems less worthwhile now
<oimon> hope you're not in weymouth :P the sailing events will be there :)
<BigRedS> haha, no, cambridgeshire :)
<BigRedS> but Dorset was briefly somewhere to be other than London
<oimon> anyone try google voice search on their phones? it is terrible in my experience
<oimon> i try an american accent and it works better, but trying an american accident when spelling out a postcode usually makes me sound australian and doesn't work :(
<gord> works fine for me
<bigcalm> It's useful for light entertainment
<kazade> PC Pro post on Unity: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/05/03/ubuntu-unity-the-great-divider/
<bigcalm> And accurate the rest of the time
<oimon> kazade: i don't see how natty should get a high review based on *potential* , it should be based on what is delivered here & now
<Psychobudgie> it does seem to split opinion, I'll give unity that
<X3N> oimon: I've found that if you set the langauge to US english it seems to work much better, especially for commands and such
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yup, we live in a corporate world and its all about da money - profit at all cost.
<oimon> x3n instead of UK english? i don't recall seeing that option
<kazade> oimon, agreed
<livingdaylight> just installed 11.04 and enjoying unity on the whole... very mac-ish with the panel at the top connected to what app happens to be open...
<kazade> I wouldn't give 11.04 a high review
<kazade> probs 7-8
<oimon> i'd give it whatever vista got :D
<MartijnVdS> A 5 for me. Unity doesn't work properly (or maybe it does, but I don't think it does)
<Psychobudgie> heh
<kazade> if I could disable merging controls/title/menu into the panel for all but the top maximized window, I'd be happy
<oimon> especially as  the reviews are already saying that ocelot will hopefully fix issues in natty
<livingdaylight> It's all about choice. I don't mind unity as long as the alternatives continue to exist; then I don't see what the complaining is about? Window Managers are just a means to getting to the apps. I'd like to see less focus on window managers in the linux world and more focus on new killer apps
<Psychobudgie> I'll stick to gnome-desktop
<kazade> When I find time I'm gonna patch Unity to work the way I expect it to work, then I'll be happy :)
<MartijnVdS> kazade: I've given up an installed Xubuntu instead
<popey> bigcalm: pong
<oimon> livingdaylight: it's unclear how much alternative will be officially supported in OO 11.10
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Xubuntu, Lubuntu :)
<Azelphur> Upgraded my server to 11.04 last night :)
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i'm not against the idea of unity (since i use docky right now) but it's the design choice and ability to tweak that that is the problem for me.
<oimon> bug 740232
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 740232 in unity "Window control buttons in the panel don't respect metacity theme" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740232
<MartijnVdS> oimon: But you shouldn't want to tweak! It's PERFECT!
<livingdaylight> oimon, that would be a valid reason for outcry; but i'm sure there will always be plenty of alternatives. As I said, my main concern is the lack of innovation in the area of applications. People will switch to Linux because of its applications not because of a spinning cube or whatever craze of the day is.
<oimon> although to some people, applications are diminishing since the web is everything to them
<livingdaylight> btw, is there a way to manage the workspaces, i.e. add more ? that used to be a right-click and preferences away in gnome desktop before
<livingdaylight> oimon, professionals in the field of science and graphic design and audio video media still look for great apps. Its not just about surfing the web and the social media such as bookface
<bigcalm> popey: lan over power. My dad has been using it just fine for a long time now with just 2 units. He's now bought another 2 units but is having trouble with them all talking. How many units do you have and is there a trick to get them all talking nicely?
<popey> bigcalm: 4
<popey> they all talk to eachother
<popey> has he enabled encryption on them? if so the new ones will need the same key
<bigcalm> popey: ok, good. I was wondering if they only worked in pairs. Sounds like one of his 4 might be faulty
<bigcalm> They each have a button to press to link them together
<popey> whats the command on redhat to tell it to go and update the list of kernel modules if you add one?
<oimon> modprobe -a ? depmod?
<popey> yes!
<popey> ta
<oimon> which one was it?
<bigcalm> depmod iirc
<popey> depmod -a
<popey> it vanished from my head for some reason
<popey> thanks :)
<popey> bigcalm: are the exact same mfr?
<bigcalm> popey: He hasn't said otherwise, but I think he's sensible enough to have bought the same ones. From PC HEll
<shadowlemon> Hi; I've put a static ip on a server in /etc/network/interfaces; on /etc/init.d/networking restart it gets the right ip, but after x amount of time it's ip changes. The pc is not being turned off,  and the ip is random, am i missing something?
<oimon> shadowlemon: can you provide example IP's of what it chagnes to?
<shadowlemon> oimon if you give me 2 minutes I can go to the server to check.. but as far as i know the ip should be 192.84.178.230
<shadowlemon> and only the last segment changes
<X3N> maybe dhclient is asking for a new ip address after a leasetime expires
<oimon> maybe also provide a pastebin of /etc/network/interfaces
<shadowlemon> i'll go there now..
<shadowlemon> ip changed from 178.84.178.230 to 178.84.178.236
<shadowlemon> i did a networking restart and i can connect again
<jonsaint> hi all. does anyone have the problem of the screensaver freezing after about 5 mins? i an get back to the homescreen but it takes ages and it seems slower with this current release AND i have to enter my keyring twice each time i log in....help!!
<gord> hotel wifi now 20 KB/sec :(
<awilkins> Is there something that I can use to just log (e.g) the title of each window I focus on to a file with a timestamp
<awilkins> What I'm basically after is something I can exploit to write timesheets for me by virtue of scraping a log for window titles / path / etc
<Azelphur> hmm, im running rsnapshot in gnome terminal and x has frozen
<Azelphur> any way to not kill that process?
<Azelphur> or if i kill it will it resume?
 * Azelphur prods popey :p
<bigcalm> This is so very much the wrong channel to post this in, but you never know who is lurking: a job if anybody is interested http://www.jobserve.com/IT-Engineer-and-DBA-London-Bridge-Permanent-WD5F452CCE3A1434E.jsjob?&r=571F6BE7261E9157
<awilkins> Essential : MCSE
 * awilkins giggles
<Azelphur> anyone care to unstuck me? :p
<awilkins> MS certifications in my experience test your ability to do things the One Microsoft Way and little else. (have studied for them but left the job that wanted them)
 * davmor2 throws some stick stuff remove in Azelphur direction
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> guess I'll have to loose my rsnapshot process
<Azelphur> :/
<Azelphur> stupid X freezes.
<awilkins> That'll teach you to use screen | at job | a paperclip
<Azelphur> typing screen every time i open a term would be madness :p
<gord> set your terminal to auto rejoin/open a screen session?
<awilkins> Set your terminal profile to run byobu instead of shell or something
<gord> echo... echo.... echo....
<Azelphur> how do i do that? :p
<awilkins> Terminal Menu <Edit> .. <Preferences> tab "Title and Command"   check "Run a custom command instead of my shell"
<Azelphur> what should I use, screen? :P
 * awilkins quite likes the byobu wrapper for screen
<dutchie> stupid bastardised dellbuntu images
<czajkowski> dutchie: oi language!
<dutchie> :(
<jpds> czajkowski: Dutch, yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Thanks for the picture for some Wasabi. But why?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\for\of
<czajkowski> waterloo last week
<czajkowski> just reminded me of you
<czajkowski> and the lack of
<brobostigon> is anyone else getting weird facebook chat spam?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> makes perfect sense really
<dutchie> brobostigon: fb chat spam usually means that the person responsible has had their account compromised
<HazRPG> Thought it was about time I did a blog post lol
<brobostigon> dutchie: i have had it , the samemessage from twodifferent peoples accounts now
<dutchie> brobostigon: maybe they both got hacked then, not sure otherwise
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o :)
<HazRPG> also, \o all
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good evening, :)
<brobostigon> dutchie: yes, sounds likely.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: the fb chat spam is usually for a bad application more than an actual compromised account however
<HazRPG> from*
<HazRPG> however, that bad application could be doing other things too... and so you should really warn those users.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so the two people i have got spam from, have subscribed to the same bad fb app?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have done. yes.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: there are hundreds of bad apps out there on facebook, so they could have just installed different ones.
<HazRPG> most likely, both apps (assuming not the same one) are using the same vulnerability
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, i see, i will advise them both, to check their apps.
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> if they remove the last few they added, they should be fine... however they should also scan their PC's of viruses and malware (assuming win boxes), and then change their passwords too
<HazRPG> also, tell them to contact facebook about it to, just to be on that safe side :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, i will do, thank you for your advice.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no problem dude :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: also, new blog post! Woo \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: let me check google reader, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<KrimZon> if i'm in a screen session and i ssh into a remote machine and connect to a screen session there, how do I detach from the screen session on the remote machine?
<HazRPG> ah crud, just realised I missed the bit about frame rates option when writing this
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: screen -rD
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: check the manual ("remote detach")
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have starred it, and shared it too all my friends on google reader, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: awesome :), you should check the video at the end, its pretty cool :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i will :)
<HazRPG> only a minute long, but it works :3
<brobostigon> :)
<KrimZon> yay
<KrimZon> ctrl-a, a, ctrl-d
<HazRPG> brobostigon: edited out the mistakes :3
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, :)
<HazRPG> Might just clean up a few of the other posts out, think I've pretty much worked out the best format/layout for my tutorial stuff I think.
<popey> 18:15:26 < dutchie> stupid bastardised dellbuntu images
<popey> ^^^^ completely fair comment IMHO
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: ah, you meant a screen inside a screen :) I misunderstood that :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] Tutorial: Stop-Motion in Linux - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/05/03/stop-motion-in-linux/
<HazRPG> ha, woot, didn't expect my post to randomly show up like that on here xD
<MartijnVdS> With your real name and all
<hamitron> evening
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I just read "Shuttleworth on Ubuntu 11.04 Linux & Unity" article by S J Vaughan-Nichols on ZDnet, and I now feel a lot better about unity
<envygeeks> Link?
<hamitron> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/shuttleworth-on-ubuntu-1104-linux-unity/8780?tag=nl.e539
<envygeeks> TYVM
<hamitron> I just feel it is a nice ballance article
<MartijnVdS> yes. It means I'll be staying with Xubuntu
<hamitron> love or hate it, life doesn't have to end
<Azelphur> hamitron: all my stuff is back online now :P
<hamitron> nice Azelphur
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I still won't recommend Unity to anyone.
<hamitron> problems all gone for sure?
<Azelphur> hamitron: yep.
<hamitron> cool
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: maybe not, but as stated, more to ubuntu than unity
<envygeeks> I don't like where he pretty much implies that if we are a Linux power user than we should take out from Ubuntu and find another Distro though :(
<hamitron> that was a little harsh
<hamitron> but reading on there are positives for those that want different
<Laney> that's an embellishment the reporter made
<jibadeeha> just tried Faenza icon set - really think Ubuntu should adopt this in the next release
<Laney> and it contradicts the last paragraph
<Laney> strange article
<hamitron> Laney: it is taking multiple angles
<hamitron> it is very much how I personally think about things
<Laney> that's one way of putting it
<hamitron> argue against everything, and see which wins in my head :)
<Laney> there's no room for you, but oh wait yes there is
 * Laney gets confused
<hamitron> from what shuttleworth says, I won't be using a vanilla ubuntu desktop personally
<hamitron> but still no reason to give up and go off in a huff
<hamitron> :)
<mgdm> this is probably an FAQ, but can you turn Unity off? :)
<mgdm> I've not upgraded
<Laney> you can pick the classic session
<hamitron> you can for now
<Laney> don't FUD
<Laney> nobody will be forced to use it ever
<mgdm> that's OK then
<mgdm> i'll upgrade and give it a shot, just wanted to know I had a fallback
<hamitron> someone said Shuttleworth said it was....
<hamitron> ;/
<Laney> show me
<hamitron> I didn't read it myself
<mgdm> [citation needed]
<Laney> classic might not be on the cd for 11.10, but you'll still be able to install it
<hamitron> tbh, that is why I don't worry
<hamitron> lots of things we all like are not on the cd
<hamitron> you just install them after
<mgdm> If I have the classic session, I can still do the stuff like turn off compiz, right?
<mgdm> compiz ruins multiple monitor support for me
<Laney> don't see why not
<Laney> metacity is still there
<mgdm> cool
<hamitron> just follow the same safety precautions as with any upgrade :)
<Laney> i hope the haters come together and make gubuntu
<hamitron> Laney: that would be nice and productive
<Laney> maybe i'll join in
<hamitron> I guess there will be g2 and g3?
<hamitron> or could be
<Laney> gnome 3 has a fallback mode
<hamitron> I've been wondering if it would be cool to have no desktop as such
<hamitron> just have seamonkey loading or something
<brobostigon> hamitron: gnome-shell doesnt have any true desktop, as we had it.
<hamitron> the gnome is fat ;/
<Laney> run x without a window manager then
<hamitron> Laney: yeh, just wondering how i could live with it
<Laney> i'm guessing not :-)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I have my doubts, I must say
<Laney> there are minimalist window mangers
<Laney> personally i prefer a tiling one (xmonad for me)
<hamitron> i kinda like LXDE
<hamitron> not tried lubuntu yet
<ali1234> the unity rant story is up on slashdot :)
<envygeeks> Which unity rant story? The #ubuntu mailing list is pretty much a live rant story right now :P
<hamitron> brb, testing new IRC client
<ali1234> envygeeks: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/03/1516235/Ubuntu-Unity-The-Great-Divider
<hamitron> my messing is over \o/
<awilkins>  /o\ what will you do now?
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> dunno :/
<exobuzz> more bad press for ubuntu/unity on slashdot (or is any press good?)
<awilkins> I have mixed feelings about it
<envygeeks> exobuzz: I have a feeling Ubuntu is going to be taking the heat until GNOME 3 comes out and people see how bad the UI is in Unity, then they'll be like "Oh, now I see why they made Unity, GNOME 3 is just bad, bad GNOME 3, BAD"
<awilkins> Upside ; like dbus-menu, like the self-hiding scrollbars
<envygeeks> I mean how bad the UI is in GNOME 3 not Unity*
<envygeeks> And by GNOME 3 comes out I mean makes it mainstream too, it's already out just not mainstream yet
<exobuzz> envygeeks, i just hope some of the issues with unity will be looked into and classic gnome will still be offered in the next release (they said they wouldnt)
<awilkins> Downside ; do not like the way all app windows are represented in launcher bar, even when not on current desktop. Do not like apparent inability to start an additional window for an app just by clicking it's launcher icon.
<awilkins> I could stomach the "no new window" thing if it took a modifier key (like shift, or ctrl)
<envygeeks> exobuzz: even though Mark said there were some things that were a no go for changes I too hope that he will fall to the demand and put in some of the most wanted things.
<exobuzz> envygeeks, issues like no alternatives to many often used applets.. and click top left. get  8 big icons on the display. on 1920x1080p they are too big and look silly (lots of mouse movement to get to them). on 800x480 they are still too big and dont fit on the screen
<awilkins> A good UI is about what feels intuitive - it felt intuitive to me when a straight click failed to spawn a new window, to try using shift or ctrl
<exobuzz> i still prefer the linuxmint style desktop with a "smart menu" like on some other os too
<ali1234> envygeeks: but gnome 3 is already out
<envygeeks> ali1234: read my second comment elaborating already out please...
<ali1234> so iow when f15 comes out?
<envygeeks> "(8:28:15 PM) envygeeks: And by GNOME 3 comes out I mean makes it mainstream too, it's already out just not mainstream yet"
<ali1234> gnome 3 will just make it worse
<exobuzz> why is everyone trying to re-invent the gui anyway.
<ali1234> because then people will realise that there isn't even an alternative
<ali1234> exobuzz: what do you mean "everyone"
<hamitron> new ideas are often tried, some stick, some go
<ali1234> gnome and canonical are the only ones trying to do it
<envygeeks> KDE 4 did it too ali1234
<ali1234> lol no
<ali1234> KDE4 is just a new theme on the same old KDE
<envygeeks> I'm pretty sure they had some major UI changes that people didn't like and especially backend changes
<exobuzz> ali1234, i mean, lots of desktop environments/os' jolios, ubuntu, kde (although kde aint too different), gnome 3, chromeos
<ali1234> yeah they changed all the backend
<ali1234> this has nothing to do with the UI
<ali1234> the UI itself is still exactly the same
<ali1234> they added on a windows 7 copy start menu but you can turn it off easily
<mgdm> I just did "vim http://pastebin.com/something" by mistake, and it worked!
<ali1234> other than that everything else is identical
<mgdm> Vim is magic
<ali1234> same old panel
<exobuzz> vim was made on the Amiga ;-)
<brobostigon> mgdm: :)
<ali1234> as for chromeos........ it's just google chrome running in fullscreen mode
<ali1234> that's only innovative in that nobody was dumb enough to try it before
<exobuzz> yeh. but really my things are with gnome3/ubuntu
<envygeeks> I've never used KDE but http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=55464&start=15 ... just sayin' :P
<ali1234> envygeeks: i don't understand what is your point
<ali1234> one guy liked it, so it must be completely different?
<envygeeks> My point is, that you are saying they didn't make changes to the UI when they did
<ali1234> no, they didn't
<envygeeks> right.
<ali1234> there is still a start menu, a task bar, and a tray with a clock, exactly like there has always been
<ali1234> the difference is that now they are generated using plasmoids, which means you can't theme them
<envygeeks> and by that theory because Ubuntu still has one in Unity it's not changed it's UI either
<ali1234> kind of like how you can't change the unity theme actually
<ali1234> but ubuntu no longer has a start menu or a tray
<ali1234> this is why people do not like it
<ali1234> it also doesn't have a task bar
<ali1234> so in other words, by this metric, unity is radically different, while KDE is exactly the same as old versions
<hamitron> lubuntu has all those
<exobuzz> and no support for the old applets
<ali1234> KDE still has all the same old panel applets it always had
<ali1234> unity has virtually none
<hamitron> lxde?
<ali1234> lxde and xfce are both not trying to reinvent the desktop too
<exobuzz> unity doesnt work on my small screen or my big screen. surely that's a failure. it was trying to target both ?
<ali1234> it's really just gnome 3 and unity
<envygeeks> Just go back to slackware and call it a day
<hamitron> ali1234: so if you want new, can use gnome3 or unity, if you want old, can use something else
<ali1234> the problem with lxde and xfce both is that they lack features
<ali1234> it's like using gnome from 10 years ago
<ali1234> and KDE is just nasty
<hamitron> suppose can use gnome2 then
<exobuzz> i havent tried kde for a while. might have to have a drive again
<exobuzz> used to use kde3
<ali1234> exobuzz: you still have to spend a few days setting it up to make it usable
<ali1234> in that respect nothing has changed
<exobuzz> i doubt it will take me a few days but i take your point
<ali1234> the defaults are as bad as they've always been, and the options are the same as always, so in the end you'll just end up configuring it exactly like you had KDE3
<exobuzz> im going to do a screenshot to show off "unity 2d" on the o2 joggler..
<hamitron> why not have a meta-package like gnome-desktop or classic-desktop?
<ali1234> the other problem with KDE is the developers don't seem to test with custom settings at all
<exobuzz> i think ubuntu should keep "gnome classic". after all. its just choice, and choice is good
<envygeeks> hamiltron: yesterday they implied that GNOME 2 UI is dead because it's no longer maintained and I don't think Ubuntu wants to take it up (just yet)
<ali1234> it's not hard to find graphical bugs in KDE as as soon as you modify one part, it tends to shift everything else out of the correct position
<envygeeks> "unfortunately the GNOME 2 interface is unmaintained, she did serve us well for 7 years though" -- JCastro
<ali1234> it's particularly bad with fonts, and has been since 3
<hamitron> so ubuntu moving to unity could be good for Gnome 2 interface
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> it could well draw attention to it
<hamitron> get it some love
<ali1234> gnome 2 isn't exactly great either tbh
<ali1234> the one thing it has going for it is it's reliable
<hamitron> but do you prefer it to unity?
<ali1234> yes
<hamitron> so there will be others too
<hamitron> some may even join in to maintain it
<hamitron> if they feel there is nowhere else to go
<exobuzz> unity on 800x480 - it could at least look at the screen res to work out the best size for the icons! http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png
<exobuzz> (unity 2d to be precise)
<ali1234> fail
<exobuzz> and on full hd http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png
<ali1234> why are those icons so damn big in the first place?
<exobuzz> (still too big)
<ali1234> the dash is complete fail
<Karti> Hi all
<hamitron> hi Karti
<Karti> hamitron, Hi
<ali1234> hi
<Karti> Any great opinions about virus protection within linux?
<mgdm> You don't need it
<mgdm> (yet)
<DJones> Karti: To be honest, I wouldn't bother with virus protection
<DJones> !virus
<lubotu3`> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<exobuzz> i use clamav
<ali1234> what mgdm means is you don't need it unless you run a server with php
<exobuzz> (mostly with my mail server)
 * mgdm looks at ali1234 
<hamitron> it is polite and maybe a good idea to run clamav to protect users who are unlucky enough to be on windows
<Karti> On my previous (and wifes) build used clamav with a pipe set up for Evolution, but I'm just wondering if I should bother with 11.04
<Karti> I like hamitron's polite bit
<Karti> So mine is really personal mail only rather than servers
<hamitron> well, your friends would consider it rude if you sent them viruses :)
<livingdaylight>  i miss the weather aspect to the time/date on panel
<ali1234> it's also handy for working out who you know who is an idiot
<livingdaylight> can still add world clocks, but not the weather
<Karti> hamitron, they would be shocked to get an email!!
<hamitron> as would mine :)
<hamitron> bbl, gotta tidy up some tools I was using earlier
<awilkins> livingdaylight, I think the weather applet is not installed by default now
<exobuzz> ali1234, I better have a forum whinge too ;-) http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=111&p=970#p970
<DJones> livingdaylight: Have you checked in software centre for weather applet?
<ali1234> a lot of the problems with unity are things that used to be a problem with gnome (and often still are a problem with KDE, XFCE etc)
<ali1234> for example, handling of fullscreen applications
<ali1234> it took gnome years to get that right
<ali1234> now unity comes along and it's back to square one
<exobuzz> 1 is generous.
<Karti> DJones, nice virus link before. Interesting read thanks
<DJones> Karti: Your welcome
<ali1234> this is why all the people saying "just switch" are so annoying
<ali1234> i could switch to KDE and start complaining about how that doesn't work right either
<ali1234> but then all the KDE people would say "well, why did you switch?"
<livingdaylight> DJones, no, haven't. awilkins I always thought it was part and parcel of the clock not a separate install/uninstallable app. Will look for it
<Karti> Can I assume that the discussion is on teh latest Natty desktop?
<ali1234> of course?
<awilkins> What else?
<DJones> livingdaylight: Seems to be something called indicator-weather in synaptic
<Karti> for my five pennies I like it  - looks good (though  30 years ago I DID wear tanktops!!)
<awilkins> I do like the slim scrollbars. I wish they worked consistently on everything.
<awilkins> e.g. - xchat-gnome, still standard scrollbar. Eclipse - slim scrollbar, but no popup scroll tool
<DJones> awilkins: When you think you've worked the scroll bars out, then you have to think about the same scroll bar in windowed and full screen apps being different
<Karti> I'm just pleased I was able to keep wobbly windows. I really don't know how I would have coped otherwise :)
<awilkins> What's with the little blue corner on the top left? Notifier tag?
<awilkins> (someone reply to me so I can test that theory)
<DJones> awilkins: What little blue corner?
<awilkins> The one that appears top left when an app has an alert flag raised :-)
<awilkins> Like the one that just happened
<DJones> I don't get that
<awilkins> Focus on another app
<awilkins> DJones, like that
<DJones> But maybe its because I'm using irssi via ssh
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> Probably other apps trigger it also
<awilkins> Anything that makes their launcher icon jiggle
<awilkins> Mmmn, redraw glitches
<awilkins> I'm actually looking forward to Wayland
<brobostigon> same issue in gwibber, left panel, new scroll bar.right side, old scroll bar.
<awilkins> If nothing else, Wayland will update the rendering, hopefully to the point where the window-texture-tearing is fixed
<DJones> Lets try with xchat
<DJones> Ping DGJOnes
<DJones> I see the little blue corner now
<livingdaylight> DJones, thanks... does it need a restart to put in place. I don't see it as yet, unless it now configures in a different manner
<DJones> livingdaylight: I don't know, I've not tried it, just saw it was available
<livingdaylight> k, thx
<Karti> Night all, thanks for teh AV stuff :)
<jibadeeha>  wonder when Ubuntu will use Wayland .. guessing some way off
<popey> jibadeeha: yeah, probably not until at least 12.10
<popey> doubt they'd put it in before 12.04 LTS
<jibadeeha> popey, do you think it will get rid of all that switching to and from the console, you know like when you shut down
<popey> the flicker?
<popey> would be nice wouldn't it
<jibadeeha> yeah really looks unprofessional
<jibadeeha> i know it can't be high priority but it would be nice yes
<hamitron> what flickering?
<mgdm> Hmmm
<mgdm> since my Natty upgrade, I have no sound
<mgdm> Right, so unmuting it in alsamixer worked
 * mgdm has ringing ears now needs new underwear
<exobuzz> ... booted into system rescue cd waiting for partition to resize...
<exobuzz> is it normal for resize2fs to sit at 100cpu for ages?
<exobuzz> (using gparted so i cant see whats going on really)
<gord> resizing file systems can always take forever
<exobuzz> aah now its actually doing something
<exobuzz> probably there was a lot to @think@ about
<exobuzz> (i have a lot of small files)
<exobuzz> reboot
<exobuzz> i was just looking at converting my partion table from mbr to gpt. you would think parted can do it but it seems i need gpt fdisk
<exobuzz> or i could note down the "offset" values and do it manually i guess.
<ali1234> why you want to do that?
<ali1234> mbr isn't really that important?
<exobuzz> to install windows 7
<exobuzz> *cough*
<ali1234> windows 7 requires it?
<exobuzz> on efi puters it seems so
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> weird stuff
<dutchie> well it appears that dell's modifications to ubuntu 8.04 have made it completely useless and destroyed ubuntu's image in the eyes of one facebook friend and probably a good chunk of her friends
<hamitron> dutchie: why?
<dutchie> "ughh is fed up with technology..ubuntu 8.04.. no skype and now locked out of student finance"
<dutchie> there appears to be a rather large lack of documentation, and i certainly couldn't help her with it earlier
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> to be fair, a lot of comp suppliers kill all OS ;) Packard Bell made me hate Windows 7
<hamitron> brb
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-04
<ali1234> this is completely true
<ali1234> i don't know why they even bother putting an OS
<ali1234> the first thing anyone with any sense does is wipe it and start again
<envygeeks> wait, Packard Bell is still around? I thought HP killed that brand
<envygeeks> Not HP sorry, Acer*
<minarge> hello?
<reaper4334> Hi
<reaper4334> anyone around? :]
<greeneyees> hooaammm,,
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<nigelb> Morning
<AlanBell> happy starwars day everyone
<AlanBell> May the fourth be with you
<MartijnVdS> ...
<gord> AlanBell, its starwars day?
<ging> may the fourth
<gord> oh
<gord> i get it
<HazRPG> heh I got a text at midnight about that
<HazRPG> apparently he always forgets every 4th of may about it... and this was the first time he remembered on time
<HazRPG> so he thought he'd share that with me at midnight... :/ lol
<DJones> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Pendulum> morning brobostigon
<DJones> Hi brobostigon Pendulum
<brobostigon> morning Pendulum and DJones :)
<Pendulum> hi DJones :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I have to always do insmod module.ko, I have added it in /etc/modules and /etc/rc.local
<brobostigon> morning kaushal
<kaushal> still it does not work
<kaushal> brobostigon: Good Morning
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> I think I might have to test gnome-shell
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> :D
<kaushal> checking again for the query ?
<knightwise> morning everyone
<popey> Morning
<gord> morning peoples
<knightwise> hey guyz
<knightwise> could i borrow some of your wisdom again ?
<wintellect> Mornin friends
<knightwise> ps : i also want you guyz to know i wrote up an article about you guys helping me with the podcast script . its kind of an 'epic story' and its featured in the latest knightcast podcast  (episode 52)
<knightwise> i've been tinkering with my "podcatching scritp' some more but seem to run into an odd problem when it comes to using Rsync
<knightwise> i've posted it on the ubuntu forums but haven't had any reply yet , perhaps you guyz know what could be wrong : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1699708&highlight=knightwise&page=2
<knightwise> The script scans a directory (with subdirectories) that hold all my podcasts.
<knightwise> it selects the latest podcast added and copies it over to a directory (with the cp command)
<knightwise> now i changed the cp command for an Rsync command (because i would like to use dropbox as a middle man) to my dropbox foder
<knightwise> it selects the podcasts , rsyncs them over .. and then suddenly deletes ALL of them again and copies 3 more.
<knightwise> realy strange
<awilkins> Any idea when Launchpad is coming back up?
<gord> an hour or so
<awilkins> Found my first non-Unity gripe with Natty :-(
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: the 600 security updates it already has?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, No, this is an audio driver problem
<gord> there are always a lot of updates shortly after release
<awilkins> Mic input isn't working at all ; was previously suffering from work-around-able bug #593018
<gord> there are a few weeks where no uploads are done whilst testing happens. so we prepare 0-day SRU's
<lubotu3> 'Error: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\n<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en"\n      lang="en" dir="ltr">\n  <head>\n    <title>Error: you can\'t do this right now</title>\n    <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/@@/launchpad.png" />\n\n    \n    \n\n    \n  \n  <link type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"\n        media="screen, print"\n        href=
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> the bot broke
<gord> launchpad is down remember
<MartijnVdS> it is?
<awilkins> I think it's more LP is down and the API doesn't distinguish between RO and RW method calls
<awilkins> The workaround no longer works ; mic input can't be coaxed into working. Can't Skype, can't work. Might have to go back to Maverick ( <sulk> )
<awilkins> Or boot into Windows for conference calling but that's a PITA because then I don't have access to my proper working environment
<gord> google is awesome, claimed i was signed in and signed out on the same page
<awilkins> That thing where you have a list of removable media, including unmounted ones, in GNOME, and you can select one and it will mount it and show it in Nautilus, is there an equivalent in Unity?
<awilkins> I have a drive that isn't in the fstab on a SATA port (in a removable caddy) ; doesn't count as a "removable" drive because it's SATA so it doesn't just mount when you socket it, but I can't find a place to mount it from the GUI
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: palimpsest?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: aka the disk utility?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, That works, not nearly as convenient as it could be though.
<awilkins> Aha, LP arises
<brobostigon> arghh, too much package breakage, tht i cant fix, i think i will do a reinstall :(
<JamesTait> Buenos dÃ­as a todos!
<dwatkins> moin moin
<brobostigon> moin dwatkins
<bigcalm> Good morning kids :)
<dwatkins> Good morning Bigcalm
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] Cosmology Meets Machine Learning - http://philbull.livejournal.com/59661.html
<jonsaint> hi all. does anyone know if theres a patch yet for the keyring because since upgrading i have to enter it twice!
<Guest72551> jonsaint, disable it in startup applications settings, win key + type startup
<bigcalm> Some people 'spreading the word of god' are about to knock on my door. Apart from ignoring the door, what's the best way to deal with them?
<kazade> invite them in, and ask them questions like "Could God create a rock so big that he couldn't lift it" etc.
<awilkins> Guns. Lots of guns.
<awilkins> I usually just tell them I already have a belief system (without going into detail).
<kirrus> bigcalm: If they're witnesses, ask them how only 180,000 people are allowed into heaven, when there are 7 billion people on planet earth, a good percentage of which are belivers
<kirrus> Not counting all who've died, of course.
<kazade> bigcalm, answer the door naked
<kazade> that'll work
<bigcalm> Thing is, I don't know enough about the bibble
<kirrus> kazade: answer to that one is, obviously, yes :P .. but the second would work as well
<BigRedS> Nah, best way is to open the door and say "Shalom". They love it when you do that :)
<kirrus> bigcalm: just calmly say that you'd like them to leave you alone please then, and they should.
<kazade> bigcalm, answer everything they say with "But, why?"
<andylockran> Heya guys and gals
<andylockran> How's things>
<andylockran> ? even
<bigcalm> Warm and sunny
<knightwise> Does anybody know if ANDROID devices are able to run webkit  ?
<kazade> knightwise, I'm pretty sure the built in browser is webkit
<popey> bigcalm: friend of mine is a god botherer, he said they do maintain a list of properties not to visit. if you tell them to never call again, they will add you to the list
<popey> like the Telephone Preference Service list ;)
<knightwise> thanx kazade
<bigcalm> \o/
<knightwise> :)
<dogmatic69> knightwise: opera is webkit, and that works im sure
<knightwise> dogmatic69: cool , we"ll give it a try
<kazade> dogmatic69, Opera is Presto, not webkit
<bigcalm> popey: I live accross the road from the vicerage. You can tell how isn't local by the way they aproach the house
<knightwise> our company had an ipad webb app developed , but i want to be able to make it accessable via ANDROID devices as well
<dogmatic69> kazade: so wikipedia lies? i dont belive that...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-based_browsers
<kazade> dogmatic69, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#Presto-based
<kazade> wikipedia is confused :)
<DJones> knightwise: Does this help http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html
<dogmatic69> kazade: you win, opera page has nothing on webkit
<knightwise> ok , i'll be able to get more infor from here.
<knightwise> Crud dogmatic69
<kazade> dogmatic69, I only knew because I used to think it was webkit too ;)
<knightwise> So if we develop a webkit based site , we cant run them on android devices ?
<s-fox> Hello :D
<kazade> knightwise, you can, the default browser is webkit
<dogmatic69> knightwise: why would you build a 'webkit' based site?
<kazade> and, yeah what dogmatic69 said
<knightwise> Sales dudes here where all IPAD horny and had a web based ipad app built
<dogmatic69> you should be building a xhtml/html4/5 etc based site
<knightwise> company policy is that it has to be cross platform compatible ( so also using 'non' apple devices)
<knightwise> so now we are a bit fucked
<knightwise> but i'll be right back ,
<dogmatic69> ok, i need to make a self signed ssl cert for my site... anyone have a easy tutorial i can go by
<davmor2> morning ubuntu lovers across the globe that congregate here :)
<X3N> dogmatic69: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/284
<X3N> or any of the other one's from google :p
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> the problem is none of them are remotely similar
<dogmatic69> just found this one that looked nice and easy http://articles.slicehost.com/2007/11/26/ubuntu-gutsy-generating-a-self-signed-ssl-certificate
<popey> dogmatic69: i would trust content on debian-administration over many other sites
<popey> the site admin has a lot of clue
 * dogmatic69 bookmarks
<dogmatic69> :) thanks
<oly> hi, anyone got unity working in seamless mode with in virtualbox ?
<oly> i cant access the launcher, looking for a way to make it permenant like with gnome 2 bars
<dogmatic69> if i do ls -al, what does <something> -> <anotherthing.file> mean?
<dogmatic69> is that a link of some sort
<X3N> yes
<dogmatic69> which is the 'actual' one?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: it's a symbolic link created by ln -s
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: the actual file is the latter part
<dogmatic69> ah, thanks
<krimzon2> oly, iirc I installed unity-2d
<krimzon2> someone also suggested I installed virtualbox 4, so I downloaded oracle's proprietary version
<oly> yeah i am using the propietry version,
<oly> not installed unity-2d if that exists wonder why that not the fall back instead of gnome 2
<oly> will give it a try in a sec cheers, if anyone has any ideas for keeping the full version be nice to know as well :)
<oly> it works till you go seamless, then i am guessing it just does not know what to bring to the front
<krimzon2> I remember now - I got a black screen a lot of the time until I installed unity-2d
<krimzon2> the main annoyance for me was that launcher items for programs on different workspaces weren't hidden
 * awilkins prefers the PUEL version of VirtualBox also
<chambo> Hi all.
<chambo> I have a question about upgrading to Natty
<chambo> Is it safe to run do-release-upgrade on ubuntu-server?
<bigcalm> Is it a live and critical server?
<chambo> It's live but I wouldn't say critical
<chambo> Just a home server that I use for LDAP, files and a few other things
<bigcalm> I tend to keep my servers on LTS releases
<chambo> I wonder whether I would be better off with a fresh install
<chambo> When the next LTS is out i'll likely put that on the server and stick with it
<chambo> I think I'll leave it on 10.10 for now as I don't think I can face going through LDAP configuration again
<popey> i keep my servers on LTS too
<jonsaint> anyone about?
<chambo> I guess if anything it stops those messages every 6 months saying "A new release is available" and then me spending 2 days fixing it after I broke it
<jonsaint> has there been a fix yet for the keyring as im still having to log in twice everytime i turn on my pc? and also this latest release aint half slow!!
<BigRedS> jonsaint: Is there a bug for it?
<BigRedS> 'cause that'll be where they'll publish the release of a fix
<jonsaint> im fairly new to ubuntu bigred so still learning the ropes
<BigRedS> jonsaint: aha, no problem. If you go to bugs.launchpad.net, and have a search around you *may* find someone's already reported the bug
<BigRedS> in which case you can click the 'this affects me' link and it'll send you updates
<BigRedS> or, if not, you can file a bug, though I'm not sure what the recomended way of doing that is
<BigRedS> I always have fun and games working out which package teh bug should be filed against
<jonsaint> il have a look
<jonsaint> will it be in the updates if they find a fix to the bug?
<chambo> Does anyone here use a PCI gbit ethernet card?  I'm affected by a kernel bug that causes lockups with my onboard card and would like to get gigabit speeds as I'm mounting home over ethernet
<BigRedS> jonsaint: yeah
<jonsaint> superb
<BigRedS> but the more people who're down as affected by a given bug, the more developer time they point at it :)
<jonsaint> cheers for the info.
<awilkins> I tend to guess which package the bug is for... and it generally gets corrected anyway
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: "It's for.. mplayer" "*bzzt* it's for totem"
<chambo> Is there anyway I can get a list of my installed packages from apt (From my current install) then install 11.04 and then install all the packages in that list?
<BigRedS> dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --get-selections
<chambo> I'm not doing a straightforward upgrade because I need to install winXP
<chambo> Thanks
<BigRedS> do dpkg --get-selections > somefile
<BigRedS> then get somefile to the new instrall
<BigRedS> then do dpkg --set-selections < somefile
<BigRedS> then apt-get upgrade
<BigRedS> (or perhaps dist-upgrade). there's several docs on that around, though
<chambo> Thanks!
<chambo> Will I end up wiuth any trouble due to deprecated packages or things like that?
<Laney> it's bad because it doesn't preserve auto-install markers
<Laney> and it shows libraries in addition to applications
<popey> BAH!
<mfraz74> eh?
<popey> mailing list
<popey> great long thread helping someone get his wireless working, and before he tries the many suggestions he decides to go back to 10.04/10.10
<popey> waste of everyone's time.
<mfraz74> have to admit I've tried a few things to get my wi-fi working properly and nothing has worked
<mfraz74> not sure whether to go back to 10.10 or try a clean install of 11.04
 * brobostigon returns
<davmor2> mfraz74: what chipset
<mfraz74> davmor2: atheros ar5b95
<mfraz74> davmor2: it is using the ath9k driver
<davmor2> mfraz74: apply the proposed repo there is a kernel fix for it, in the mean time try doing sudo rfkill --unblock wifi
<mfraz74> i've applied the proposed repo, still doesn't work
<davmor2> mfraz74: :(
<mfraz74> if I use rsync to sync files between my server and netbook after a while the traffic slows to nothing
<mfraz74> worked fine in 10.10
<davmor2> mfraz74: ah that's a different issue then
<davmor2> mfraz74: create a bug report and include the words Regression in it
<mfraz74> davmor2: bug #760304 is the one I've commented on
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 760304 in linux (Ubuntu) "When copying a large set of file on an smb share over wifi, the wifi connection breaks (Regression) (dup-of: 735171)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760304
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 735171 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "driver ath9k is too slow or not responding" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735171
<davmor2> mfraz74: you might want to comment on the one it's duped to as your comments will not be seen on that secondary bug
<davmor2> mfraz74: ie re-write the comment on bug 735171
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 735171 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "driver ath9k is too slow or not responding" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735171
<mfraz74> I wrote comment 26
<davmor2> mfraz74: ah yes just seen it
<brobostigon> what does the comment right atthe end of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096 mean, please.
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in linux (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that it's a confirmed bug?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or that he posted a stable release update? on 04-27?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i havent noticed any updates yet, really.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: SRUs can take a while
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: enable the -proposed repository to get it early
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me check.
<davmor2> brobostigon: If you look at the top now linux has been added to the bug and the linux part has been confirmed as being at fault too :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont have proposed, let me find a apt parameter.
<brobostigon> davmor2: yes, kms, is related.
<davmor2> brobostigon: cli way "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list" uncomment the proposed lines, gui way "open SC click on in the menu click Edit-> Software Sources type in your password then click on the updates tag and enable proposed and close"
<davmor2> s/tag/tab
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<MooDoo> *yawn*
 * brobostigon scp's MooDoo a pot of coffee
<MooDoo> i need it
<brobostigon> :)
 * dwatkins gets a cup of coffee
<dwatkins> Clearly I was subconsciously influenced by this talk of coffee.
<Azelphur> rsnapshots intervals are weird xD
<Azelphur> the default "hourly" snapshot runs every 4 hours \o/
<dwatkins> 4 Vulcan hours, clearly.
<Azelphur> indeed
<livingdaylight> AvÃ© Legionaries
<brobostigon> lets hope proposed doesnt break anything.
<dwatkins> Hail Caesar!
<Azelphur> dwatkins: you should see the documentation, it's even more confusing xD
<livingdaylight> lol
<dwatkins> Azelphur: is it in English or Medieval Chinese?
<Azelphur> it's like "interval hourly 6" "This will run backups every 4 hours so 6 times a day"
<popey> no
<popey> every 6 hours, 4 times a day
<Azelphur> dwatkins: probably medieval chinese :D
<popey> 0 */4   * * *          /usr/bin/rsnapshot hourly
<dwatkins> I'd like to learn Klingon just so I can translate the manual for the product I support into it.
<livingdaylight> guys, I need some advice/input on these N455 dual-core atom processors.... John Lewis is doing these deals on hp notebooks for Â£250, which is tempting me into making a purchase.
<Azelphur> popey: fun \o/
<popey> livingdaylight: url?
<livingdaylight> http://tinyurl.com/6cbsak3
<livingdaylight> the tiny url is about as long as the normal url, lol
<popey> :)
<dwatkins> I use dft.ba for shortening URLs.
<dwatkins> Don't Forget To Be Awesome ;)
 * popey uses popey.me :)
<dwatkins> well, officially I use bit.ly ;)
<livingdaylight> dwatkins, not heard of that one. Do they have a FF add-on?
<livingdaylight> popey, what do you reckon, maestro?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: that looks quite nice :p
<popey> livingdaylight: do you really want a netbook?
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: looks like it: https://addons.mozilla.org/af/firefox/addon/dftba-nerdfighters/
<davmor2> livingdaylight: I see your nick but in my head I hear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV4WGoyl4Q
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: oh wait, that's probably a theme
<dwatkins> davmor2: if that's the song I think it is, I hear it too
<livingdaylight> popey, don't mind. For the money a dual-core sounds good. Certainly don't want a big clunky thing for moving around with
<popey> you could get a 'proper' laptop for that money
<Azelphur> livingdaylight: I'm trying to get my hands on an inspiron duo :D
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237715
<livingdaylight> popey, what's the difference between a proper laptop and a notebook?
<popey> netbooks are smaller
<popey> small screen and keyboard
<popey> and often don't have many memory slots
<Azelphur> some netbooks come with full pitch keyboards
<livingdaylight> not seen proper laptops for that money unless they're old celeron processors. Maplin has a deal ( Â£275) for a lenovo 3000 (celeron 900)
<popey> livingdaylight: see that link i just posted
<davmor2> livingdaylight: for another Â£100 I got http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/hp-g62-451sa-core-i3-laptop-with-3gb-memory-black-08722513-pdt.html
<popey> guess it depends what the use of the machine is :)
<livingdaylight> davmor2, yea, another Â£100 :p
<livingdaylight> popey, that lenovo looks pretty awesome for the same money
<livingdaylight> thanks for the heads up!
<livingdaylight> i3 processors are very entry level, eh? I was told they're equivalent of dual-core processors... need to get i5 to make a proper move at that level
<DJones> livingdaylight: My i3 is dual core
<DJones> popey: Thanks for the email reminder about ask mark, I'd forgotten about that
<popey> np
<livingdaylight> davmor2, Â£350 and up I would be looking for a dedicated graphics (nvidia) card; always better than onboard ones, right?
<livingdaylight> popey, @ Â£409 I wouldn't have been interested because of the graphics card, but at its current reduction it makes it a very interesting proposition indeed.
<davmor2> livingdaylight: the nvidia one would still be on board ;)  this has dedicated memory as well as shared,  and it works lovely bar the wifi bleedin' Ralink
<popey> yah, looks nice
<livingdaylight> Just need to go to the shops and look at one in the "flesh" and test out the keyboard - always a decisive factor in my case
<livingdaylight> so, many of them still don't come with hdmi outputs, which is annoying
<livingdaylight> i love hooking up small laptops to a big screen
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: that reminds me, I need a mini displayport to HDMI adapter :)
<livingdaylight> dwatkins, is that vga to hdmi?
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: no, it's for the little output port in the side of my Macbook Pro.
<livingdaylight> ahh
<dwatkins> VGA is analogue, but I'd like to keep the signal digital and take advantage of my 1980x1080 television.
<MartijnVdS> DVI/HDMI \o/
<dwatkins> I sometimes connect my tiny ASUS Eee to the TV, which is fun.
<dwatkins> That little netbook is now a media server, however.
<livingdaylight> the lenovo does have hdmi out! ooooh....
<MartijnVdS> My PC has DVI, HDMI, VGA out
<MartijnVdS> and apparently, it can do HDMI-CEC...
<dwatkins> my docking station has two DVI outs for my work laptop
<Azelphur> reflashed my routers firmware without dropping from IRC. Winning :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: \o/ vps :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, I didn't loose my connection from here to my dedi :P
<Azelphur> my client remained connected
<popey> bet it didnt :)
<popey> bet it reconnected
<Azelphur> yea, but it reconnected in a way that didn't actually loose my IRC connection
<popey> indeed
<Azelphur> so when the firmware reflash finished I just got a small flood on IRC
<popey> nice when that happens
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<popey> i have accidentally slammed my laptop shut, causing it to suspend, opened up, reconnected to the network and ssh carried on
<popey> win
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I just blank screenw hen I shut my laptops lid, it gets irritating trying to move to a different seat or something and having to awkwardly carry the laptop while it's open
<dwatkins> yeah, I've taken advantage of the timeouts on ssh a couple times.
<dwatkins> also, if you're quick when resuming, you can ~. to kill the session before it hangs.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: <enter>~.
<MartijnVdS> or <enter>~~~~~~~~. for a 8-level edep ssh :)
<dwatkins> haha, yeah - I've had ... urrrm ... many levels deep
<Azelphur> What's the best / most compatible encryption mode for wifi now days? there's so many WPA2 options in DD-WRT
<Azelphur> Personal, Enterprise, Personal Mixed, Enterprised Mixed. Which WPA2 do I want? :P
<dwatkins> One with a long key.
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Access#A_high-level_overview_of_WPA_terminology might help, Azelphur - I need to read this myself, probably.
<dwatkins> I believe I use WPA-PSK at home. I suspect it's good enough unless you live next door to a hacker.
<Azelphur> ah I see :)
<Azelphur> yea, I probably want WPA2 Personal
<Azelphur> maybe changed to WPA2 Personal Mixed if I find any devices not WPA2 capable in the hosue
<dwatkins> Yeah, if you can, choose a nice long key, then save it to a text file somewhere you can easily get to after your hard disk dies and when friends bring round laptops.
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I use keepass :D
<Azelphur> text files are so retro
<Azelphur> keepass+dropbox = win
<dwatkins> ok, how do you get to that if your PC dies, though? :)
<dwatkins> ah ok
<Azelphur> protects against user error I believe too as you can rollback the file with dropbox
<MartijnVdS> drawpbawx
<dwatkins> but you might need to get online, that's my point. I was thinking of a USB key inna drawer.
<dwatkins> just thinking of the possibilities, having had problems with my wifi router recently.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I'll always be able to get at my keepass :)
<dwatkins> Even when MS stops your windows from working?
<Azelphur> I don't have Windows?
<dwatkins> ah ok, sorry, didn't see the ports
<Azelphur> yea, keepass is like insanely cross platform
<Azelphur> it's like there's cross platform, and then there's keepass x
<Azelphur> xD*
<dwatkins> do you have the data on multiple machines?
<Azelphur> yes.
<Azelphur> all my laptops, PC, and my android phone
<dwatkins> right, cool - the name is justified, then
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> I adopted it as a policy after someone broke into a service I used purely to get at my password
<Azelphur> and then used that password to abuse other stuff I used, because I used the same password for everything :p
<Azelphur> (I was only 13 or so at the time)
<Azelphur> but now I have unique passwords for everything with keepass, much more secure
<Azelphur> Anyone know much about wifi transmit power settings?
<dwatkins> When I was 13 I invented a phrase which I now use as a password, but back then the closest thing I had to a password was my PIN number.
<BigRedS> I worked for a while in a shop with no barcode scanner, but product codes on everything anyway
<BigRedS> I have a good amount of memerised pseudo-random strings for concatenating into passwords :)
<bigcalm> 321456 was my dad's old office number. Quite handy
<Azelphur> haha, that was pretty obvious re wifi transmit power, just went and asked about it in #hamradio
<dwatkins> I use old telephone numbers for that.
<Azelphur> the answer is: Leave it at default most laptops broadcast at 50ish and the power needs to be hiked at both ends to make any difference \o/
<dwatkins> ahh yes
<dwatkins> I installed a new graphics driver and now my XP laptop thinks it's 1992 and 16 colours are cool... well done IBM.
<Azelphur> bigcalm: I have my phone hooked up to some VOIP magic I have like 300 break-in numbers all over the planet :D
 * Azelphur is just a local call away :p
<Azelphur> my mobile is also a UK landline \o/
<dwatkins> nice
<Azelphur> tis pretty cool, and free \o/
<speedxco1e> hi all, I'm from sweden. How do I check the credit rating of an LTD.. I know it's Off topic, but I need the advice. Thanks
<dogmatic69> speedxco1e:  http://tinyurl.com/637cm9v
<livingdaylight> can we change the apps round on the Unity bar?
<popey> the launcher?
<popey> on the left
<livingdaylight> yes
<popey> yes
<Darael> livingdaylight: Drag them /away/ from the launcher first, then up and down.
<popey> hold mouse button down on one and drag to the right a bit
<livingdaylight> i'm right-clicking and everything, but can't figure it out
<livingdaylight> Darael, AhA!
<Darael> Took me a while to work it out, too.
<livingdaylight> wonderful! thx guys
<livingdaylight> so, that's called the launch bar - not unity bar?
<popey> Launcher
<livingdaylight> k
<Laney> grumble
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts/612
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements/612
<popey> those might help livingdaylight
<Laney> can i apply for a tax refund before the end of the financial year?
<livingdaylight> thx
 * Laney overpaid :(
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/36274/tips-and-tricks-for-unity/612
<popey> that too
<oimon> argh only just sat at my desk for the first time today :(
<NET||abuse> hey guys. i'm using 10.10 netbook remix on my EeePc 1000h, but i've switched to regular gnome and just culled the bottom panel.. however.
<NET||abuse> in this situation, i'm getting a problem with tomboy keyboard shortcut
<NET||abuse> alt+F12 won't work,
<suprengr> popey: http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts/34876#34876 might be useful
<NET||abuse> i've checked the gnome keyboard shortcuts and there's no conflict, and tomboy settings definately has the keyboard shortcut registered
<oimon> NET||abuse: could be a compiz shortcut overriding it?
<NET||abuse> hmm,
<NET||abuse> how could i lis tout all the compiz shortcuts?
<NET||abuse> would dread trawling through all ccsm sections to find it
<oimon> at least check the general options
<oimon> -> key bindings
<oimon> in ccsm
<oimon> i have some alt-f stuff
<oimon> although alt-f12 works for me in lucid
<NET||abuse> just had a look, don't see it.
<NET||abuse> under general options->key bindings in ccsm
<NET||abuse> nothing using F12
<NET||abuse> ALT+F12
<NET||abuse> fn+F12 does my volume, and that's working, so the key is fine :( 0
<NET||abuse> changing it to <Super>F12 didn't seem to work either.
<NET||abuse> one other thing that i notice, i can't seem to enable virtual desktops on this laptop... something in the settings of ccsm won't let me increase the "number of desktops" setting
<NET||abuse> Horizontal & Vertical] Virtual Size and
<NET||abuse>  [Horizontal | Vertical] Virtual Size are  set
<NET||abuse> but it won' tincrease beyond 1 for Number of Desktops
<NET||abuse> any reason the netbook remix installer would limit this by default?
<oimon> tbh 10.10 netbook remix is by far the worst linux experience i've had in years
<oimon> half-baked isn't the word
<NET||abuse> it's been fine for me other than these 2 things :)
<NET||abuse> oimon, really?
<popey> friend of mine runs it on his netbook just fine
<NET||abuse> that said, i'm left behind the netboo0k remix desktop setup, completely abandoned it and returned to plain on gnome
<oimon> ah ok i missed that bit
<NET||abuse> ah well, i blame popey..
<popey> wise.
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> not to worry, i've gone this long with this bug, i can live with it for now
<NET||abuse> updating to 11.04 at some point might reset some of my needs, unity or gnome 3.... and i might get a new laptop (finally after 4 years)
<NET||abuse> as i'm now no-longer employed but freelancing again :) -
<oimon> NET||abuse: you could always try creating a test user account on the netbook and see if that works with fresh settings
<NET||abuse> yeh,  good idea, i'll try that later tonight
<NET||abuse> right, back to the grind stone for me
<NET||abuse> gotta do my first ever OO based javascript app :)
<chambo> BigRedS, Thanks for the tip - A fresh install and it's like nothing ever happened :)
<Darael> IIRC changing the number of desktops never worked for me in Compiz in Maverick.  It does in Natty, though.  Just FYI, NET||abuse.
<NET||abuse> Darael, really? hmmm
<chambo> I just did a fresh install of Natty and somethign which never worked before (Changing number of desktops) works for me now too
<chambo> And I'm also a big fan of the "indicator applet complete"
<NET||abuse> i've used 10.10 on a desktop and it worked fine i think.. or did i never update from 10.04 on that desktop?.. hmm, have to think about that.
<NET||abuse> chambo, what do you mean by that?
<NET||abuse> complete as opposed to what?
<chambo> Don't know that's just the name of it in the add to panel dialog
<NET||abuse> oh, i see,
<NET||abuse> there's appmenu, session or complete.. never noticed that before
<NET||abuse> my install uses -session right now, what's the difference?
<chambo> They replaced the gnome clock
<chambo> Which I've always had problems with
<chambo> It also has sound and net properties there but not sure if that is in the session applet
<Darael> It took me a while to work out how to get the indicator clock in the format I like (had to use dconf-editor since I want short ISO-style dates, which aren't part of my locale, but it's just the tool that's changed (gconf-editor for the gnome clock))
<fujisan> where can i find the desktop effects in 11.04 ?
<fujisan> Hello btw :<
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I have a serious problem with an Ubuntu web server. A permission was changed somewhere, and the resulting problem is that no matter how much I chown files and update permissions- apache2 still says forbidden.
<SuperMatt> what are the current permissions on the file?
<SuperMatt> also: are you running selinux?
<BigRedS> KrisDouglas: are you sure the change isn't to the Apache config?
<SuperMatt> and are you using facls?
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, I assume not. Basically one of my colleagues stupidly tried to mount the server as a folder from the Connect to Server menu, and then share the directory with samba.
<KrisDouglas> --- so he could mount the server as a drive on a WINDOWS pc.
<KrisDouglas> but the / folder was mounted
<KrisDouglas> am I safe assuming the install is hosed? :P
<BigRedS> KrisDouglas: no, it probably isn't
<BigRedS> I'm havign trouble working out what this guy did, though
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, I am quite glad to hear that. I have noticed another problem. When trying to use sudo it says permission denied on the sudoers file. Luckily had root though
<BigRedS> he tried to mount some part of teh FS over nfs? smb?
<BigRedS> I'm not sure why that would change any permissions automagtically
<KrisDouglas> he mounted / of the office app server using SSH to a GVFS folder
<KrisDouglas> and then shared the GVFS folder across the network
<BigRedS> and then did some chowning adn chmodding?
<KrisDouglas> Not that I am aware. It just stopped working after he shared the directory
<KrisDouglas> but now permissions on the sudoers file, and other things aren't right
<BigRedS> that's a bit weird
<KrisDouglas> but ls -al shows they are owned by the correct users.
<KrisDouglas> it's very weird.
<KrisDouglas> Not seen it before.
<hamitron> permissions on the sudoers file?
<KrisDouglas> owned by root
<KrisDouglas> -r--r-----
<BigRedS> er, that'd be wrong
<BigRedS> *someone* needs to be allowed to write to it
<KrisDouglas> Oh shit.
<KrisDouglas> i mean
<KrisDouglas> bums.
<KrisDouglas> sorry
<BigRedS> I did once cobble together a script to get permissons off a backup and apply them to the files in-place
<BigRedS> but, er, it didn't work that well. You'll probably find a reinstall is the path of least resistance
<hamitron> mine is 440 too
<hamitron> my sudoers file
<KrisDouglas> if I change the permissions to 0440 (I am guessing?) I get permission denied.
<hamitron> but root can write anything anyway
<BigRedS> ooh
<BigRedS> not if it doesn't have rights to
<KrisDouglas> I am logged in as root at the moment
<KrisDouglas> (don't ask)
<hamitron> chmod 440 /etc/sudoers
<hamitron> doesn't work?
<hamitron> :|
<KrisDouglas> nope
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: do lsattr /etc/sudoers
<KrisDouglas> -----------------e-
<kirrus> Ok, that's normal. You can set a file to be imutable (old filesystem thing), which would refuse all edits.. but that's not it :(
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: is your filesystem read-only?
<KrisDouglas> it is not mounted as RO
<KrisDouglas> and I can make and change files.
<hamitron> what does that "e" mean?
<KrisDouglas> Not a clue in hell
<hamitron> have you tried running chmod on another file?
<KrisDouglas> I can change the permissions of the other file
<KrisDouglas> of an other file*
<fujisan> same as it ever was
<fujisan> there is water at the bottom of the ocean
<KrisDouglas> I am beginning to think I should just export the databases and web data and reinstall the server
<hamitron> is root still your super-user?
<KrisDouglas> yes.
<fujisan> has anyone sung this in a song yet: " my head contains cookie crumbs, google cookie crumbs for it's infinite cache and my cookie crumbs are part of the quantum entangled cognition of humanitas"
<fujisan> </question>
<hamitron> erm, no? ;)
<fujisan> i feel like someone from alzheimer to everything i know my brain contains cookies for google queries :-x
<fujisan> alzheimer being the future place i never hope to visit :<
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: try looking through the logs (/var/log/syslog) etc.. other than that, I guess reinstall would be the quickest way to get it back
<fujisan> am i peculiar?
<fujisan> oh sorry where is the offtopic channel to this channel?
<fujisan> i just realized this might be ontopic sorry
<fujisan> :/
<KrisDouglas> kirrus, Nothing in the logs, I had a nose through them before.
<kirrus> fujisan: there's #ubuntu-offtopic, but this channel does go offtopic from time to time, not a problem unless popey or someone says it is :)
<fujisan> oh ok
<fujisan> thanks
<bigcalm> cake and kittens!
<KrisDouglas> My last question, bit of a mysql one here- Is there a way to backup mysql without being able to access the client (for obvious reasons)
<kirrus> Chocolate cake?
<hamitron> but more cake than kitten
<hamitron> ;/
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: copy /var/lib/mysql/
<kirrus> that contains all the databases
<fujisan> korean kitten cake kirrus?
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: phpmyadmin
<kirrus> make sure you shut down mysql first
<kirrus> Or, yeah, phpMyAdmin.. or mysqldump on the command line, on the server?
<fujisan> i had it once it reminds me of meatloaf
<kirrus> fujisan: ugh
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm, mysql is broken :) mysqldump is broken
<fujisan> :>
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: what does work?
<fujisan> i had win7 on my bedroom pc but it was kinda slow so i put 11.04 on it
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: make sure it's stopped, and copying the files is the best you'll get. Hope you don't use InnoDB, because that doesn't like being copied
<KrisDouglas> not a lot :)
<KrisDouglas> I dislike innodb :)
<fujisan> since i only do simply stuff on it anyways perfect for ubuntu
<bigcalm> myisam is the default
<kirrus> When you get to the new install, just put the files back on top of /var/lib/mysql/
<fujisan> how do i install spotify on 11.04 same as 10.10?
<KrisDouglas> will they automatically kick in, kirrus?
<kirrus> Aye.. for now. The MySQL devs want to change InnoDB to the default in the next major release
<bigcalm> Hohum
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: yes. Make sure MySQL is stopped, and overwrite everything. It includes all your privilage tables and host permissions
<KrisDouglas> thank you :)
<fujisan> yvw
<KrisDouglas> You are a strange creature fujisan
<fujisan> welcome you are :)
<kirrus> fujisan: yes, just follow spotify's instructions. Still works after a release upgrade as well
<fujisan> ye that's what happens when you live vicariously through  television :-x
<fujisan> ok ty kirrus
<fujisan> 10.10 upgrade to 11.04 was a complete disaster btw had to do a clean install
<hamitron> look on the bright side, fresh installs are nice
<hamitron> :)
<davmor2> fujisan: should of asked me I'd of told you to do a fresh install :D
<fujisan> oh noes i can't find my sources list in 11.04 does anyone know how i can get it back?
<KrisDouglas> should be in /etc/apt/sources.list
<KrisDouglas> i can pastebin you mine if you need it
<fujisan> i mean the menu entry for it
<fujisan> so you will get all that gui
<KrisDouglas> Oh
<KrisDouglas> Open software centre
<KrisDouglas> and go to edit>software sources
<KrisDouglas> similar in synaptic.
<fujisan> ok ty
<KrisDouglas> took me about a week to notice that :D
<fujisan> ye very useful to know
<KrisDouglas> nearly ten to six and I'm still in the office :(
<fujisan> im listening to a song about the spelling bee aint life grand :(
<fujisan> Failed to fetch http://repository.spotify.com/dists/stable/non-free/source/Sources  404  Not Found << uhm something went wrong :/
<KrisDouglas> I know how the permissions got screwed
<fujisan> hmz
<KrisDouglas> "Nautilus needs to add some permissions to your folder to share it" he clicked add perms.
<kirrus> fujisan: Spotify doesn't have a source repository?
<fujisan> deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
<fujisan> that should be it according to their site
<kirrus> Do you have a deb-src line in your /etc/apt/sources.list next to spotify?
<fujisan> i dunno i am not working directly with sources.list
<KrisDouglas> check, because it makes for a really annoying error, fujisan
<KrisDouglas> as a matter of fact, I had to add Spotify manually to the list because the sources editor didn't seem to add it.
<fujisan> cant find the file sources.list
<KrisDouglas> just stick "deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free" at the bottom without quotes.
<fujisan> ok when i open sources.list i just get the gui again from software center
<KrisDouglas> open a terminal from applications>accessories
<KrisDouglas> and then type gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<fujisan> now i get some error box saying: "Could not download all repository indexes"
<fujisan> ok did like you said and added it manually and i am getting the same error
<fujisan> ok it seems to install irregardless :>
<fujisan> hmz it installed just fine and is currently running dunno why it gave me that error :/
<fujisan> meaning it would have worked all along :>
<fujisan> well thanks KrisDouglas :)
<fujisan> or maybe adding that gpg-key did the trick not sure
<KrisDouglas> you need the key too
<KrisDouglas> but it will go in the list with or without the key
<fujisan> which output module is best again for audio pulse or alsa?
<KrisDouglas> pulse imo.
<KrisDouglas> but they talk to eachother anyway
<fujisan> ok ty
<fujisan> i had the same error again with the audio stopping :/
<KrisDouglas> Which one is that?
<fujisan> it happens when i select pulse as well
<fujisan> that the audio stops playing when i play a video
<KrisDouglas> in what appa?
<KrisDouglas> app?*
<fujisan> vlc
<fujisan> set it on pulse audio in output module in preferences
<fujisan> already a
<fujisan> nd also alsa
<KrisDouglas> peculiar
<fujisan> the error is persistent
<fujisan> i am trying to change the hardware profile in Sound Preferences now
<Azelphur> ali1234: you have a inspiron duo right? have you tried minecraft on it? :P
<grogoreo> hi
<grogoreo> I've installed Apache and PHP but when I go onto any .php file firefox just pops up to download the file. I've enabled the php module and restarted.
<dwatkins> grogoreo: did you install mod-php?
<grogoreo> dwatkins, ye
<ali1234> Azelphur: no i dont have one of those
<Azelphur> oh :(
<MichealH> grogoreo, How did you install it? tasksel?
<grogoreo> MichealH, synaptic
<MichealH> Hmm
<MichealH> Ive only ever did mine with tasksel _> LAMP server
<dwatkins> grogoreo: you may need to create symlinks to the php modules in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/ from the mods-available directory, but using tasksel is probably easier.
<dwatkins> I didn't need to install the symlinks on my server, and it loads php ok after I install libapache2-mod-php5 and its dependencies
<Azelphur> Hmm, I'm trying to run bitcoin but it just hangs when I try and launch it
<popey> Azelphur: bug 758398
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 758398 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Bitcoin top-level window unmapped" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/758398
<Azelphur> popey: nice
<popey> Azelphur: it runs with compiz off, or you can get a patched version
<Azelphur> popey: already patched and GPU mining
<popey> you dont need the gui client for GPU mining
<Azelphur> popey: I know, but I like to see what's going on
<popey> heh
<popey> what gpu miner you using?
<Azelphur> poclbm.py
<popey> ah
<popey> I'm using the diablominer
<Azelphur> popey: fun, any better/will it work with nvidia?
<gord> minecraft is my gpu miner :(
<popey> dunno
<popey> i only have nvidia, so yeah
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> i also use deepbit so get somewhat more instant results :D
<gord> gotten any coins?
<popey> yes
<gord> interesting, any real world value?
<popey> yes :)
<gord> iiiinteresting. can i become a quite literal software pirate and hack into peoples gpu mining farms to steal all their coins?
<popey> only if you have a parrot
<jibadeeha> what is GPU mining is it mining as in data mining using GPU instead of CPU?
<popey> its doing complex mathematical equasions using the GPU
<popey> which is good at that
<popey> -typos
<popey> mining specifically means looking for bitcoins
<jibadeeha> thanks popey - had not heard of it until now
<gord> http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2011/05/04/intel-reinvents-transistors-using-new-3-d-structure - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting
<popey> google bitcoin :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> "More than 6 million 22nm Tri-Gate transistors could fit in the period at the end of this sentence."
<Azelphur> http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/05/04/1749215/Sony-Officially-Blames-Anonymous-For-PSN-Hack lolol
<Azelphur> when anonymous takes credit, it's maintenance. When anonymous states "It wasn't us", it's anonymous :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just wait until ARM work out how to employ tri-gate technology.
 * popey notes that wgetting an iso from releases.ubuntu.com now redirects to a cloudfront content delivery network
 * popey suspects this may have been wise a week or so ago :)
<Azelphur> popey: my GTX 570 is doing 109mhash/sec and my 8800GT is doing 22khash/sec :D
<Azelphur> and I have them both rate limited such that desktop things run smooth
<gord> huh... maybe apt repos should go in cloud stuff?
<gord> ooooh updates via ubuntu one anyone? ;)
<Azelphur> popey: according to bitcoinx.com my projected bitcoin profit is around 40BTC/mo ($145) :D
<popey> nice
<popey> whats the electricity bill to run those GPUs at fill tilt?
<Azelphur> dunno :P
<Azelphur> popey: less than $145, that's for sure
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Taking Notes at UDS - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/04/taking-notes/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=taking-notes
<popey> AlanBell: typo in your blog post, 10.10 should be 11.10
<AlanBell> thanks
<popey> AlanBell: is there any reason not to show the nicknames of people editing?
<AlanBell> no
<AlanBell> the idea is to do so
<popey> good stuff
<popey> i look forward to that :)
<AlanBell> but without the chat window or any other UI
<AlanBell> so take this: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-o-community-o-unity-developer-participation
<AlanBell> remove the bottom right pane so the list of names goes all the way down the right hand side
<popey> yeah
<popey> sounds great
<AlanBell> and remove everything above the list of names and the pad itself
<bigcalm> popey: new hardware has been dispatched or installed?
<popey> i havent installed it yet
<bigcalm> :O
<popey> i have it here
<bigcalm> popey: I think you need to hand in your geek licence
<popey> :)
<popey> well, i have been using the internet :)
<popey> bah
<popey> i copied some GB to a usb stick then shutdown the pc
<popey> its still shutting down
<popey> well, writing to the usb stick!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-05
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Speak to me! - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/05/speak-to-me/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=speak-to-me
<Azelphur> why does http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu say "built-in virus protection" ? XD
<Azelphur> what built in virus protection does Ubuntu have/need?
<stgraber> AlanBell: around?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Its just marketing, if your looking for an alternative operating system... then your clearly either a Mac or Windows user wanting to run away from viruses... it's a play on words, if they say "Built-in virus protection" what they really mean is that the security is tighter on a Linux/Ubuntu system... so having troubles with viruses is reduced down to a minimal (viruses do still exist for Linux/Unix just not as many!)
<HazRPG> you've gotta remember, viruses do still exist, and well if you install Wine... your still susceptible to viruses - however nothing is ever given "execute" permissions by default
<HazRPG> you could argue Wine is technically sandboxed... but well I've noticed that a default Install of Wine gives wine permissions to folders such as the music/documents/videos folders
<HazRPG> so if you have things in those folders, and you open up a virus... technically the information on those files could become corrupted or worse... however the advantage to Wine is that nothing in Wine can run on start-up
<HazRPG> (not unless you set something to run on startup)
<HazRPG> (i.e. scripts etc)
<HazRPG> also, files that have viruses (windows-based) injected to files will not run on linux unless your using those files with Wine... and even then I'm not sure how that would work exactly
<HazRPG> This is partly the reason why I've made a separate folder in my Home directory called "Wine" and inside that I have Documents, Music, Videos, etc so instead of giving it room to play it, its once again sandboxed out
<HazRPG> but that might just be paranoia on my part
<HazRPG> plus the fact that I don't tend to use Wine except for games I buy off steam
<MartijnVdS> You have to work quite hard to get Wine to do viruses
<MartijnVdS> but it can be done
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> right lets see if I can figure out how to setup the printer on my server...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just "Connect to server" from the desktop CUPS admin tool
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: maybe set up some ACL to allow that, but I wouldn't go mucking about with editing /etc/cups/printers.conf myself
<AlanBell> stgraber: hi
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm, you've lost me
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I was reading through this: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/cups.html
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that would work
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but instead of the web interface, you can use "Connect to server" in the System -> Administration -> Printers ap[p
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Yeah, for some reason I can't connect that way... was the first thing I tried... seems a config setting somewhere it stopping it.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I've just made sure that CUPS on my server is set to listen on its IP address... but still no joy, its just not allowed to auth.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so allow it :)\
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does this look about right? http://goo.gl/etCsA
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah wait.. does the web interface work?
<HazRPG> nope ^_^
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: even if you follow the Ubuntu wiki guide?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: "403"
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea then, sorry
 * MartijnVdS has a printer with a network port
<MartijnVdS> (much easier)
<HazRPG> lol
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 5th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Vote today on AV and Council Elections
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Woot! Think I've finally installed my printer to my server ;D
<HazRPG> just printing off a test page now
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<HazRPG> now I just need to see if I can get it install on all the clients now :)
<HazRPG> Hmm, is there not a way to limit who can fiddle with the settings... or are the settings on a client-by-client basis?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: username/password I think
<MartijnVdS> but some bits are per-client
<HazRPG> wow, this is more responsive then when it use to be on samba :o
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try the CUPS docs if you want some.. *cough*light*cough* reading
<DJones> Morning
<czajkowski> Aloha
<DJones> Morning czajkowski, seems a long time since you've been around (or maybe I've been asleep), how are you feeling now
<czajkowski> DJones: not bad thanks
<DJones> Thats good to hear, you seem to have been through the wringer lately
<rml_home> I have a weird problem.  I installed 11.04 on my twin screen system and now both screens seem completely independent, almost like 2 separate systems.  Any ideas?
<gord> morning all
<rml_home> mouse will move between screens, but can't drag windows...
<gord> sounds like you have set up separate xscreens rather than using something like twinview
<rml_home> gord: you could be right.  I'm a recent convert to Linux, so a bit of a n00b :)
<czajkowski> gord: aren't you glad I reminded you about the pg tips
<rml_home> gord: I shall give it a bit of a thorough Googling.  Thanks for the pointer
<gord> czajkowski, very :) although they have a starbucks down the road too
<czajkowski> :)
<JamesTait> Hello, world!
<gord> aww maaaan, i lost my membership in launchpad-bugcontrol
<gord> now i can't edit any bug on launchpad :(
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks JamesTait must be learning a new programming language
<JamesTait> :-P
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm trying a variety, in the hope that I'll find one that makes my boys do as they're told. ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - if you find it let me know will you.
<JamesTait> "sudo tidy your room" isn't working.
<JamesTait> And I tried to file a bug, but I couldn't find the project bug tracker.
<gord> i think you are the bug tracker ;)
<gord> why does google docs hate me so!
<DJones> gord: If you can't edit bugs now, does that make life eaier and quieter
<gord> no because i can edit some bugs ;) just when things are filed wrong or i need to edit quicky a bug on some other project, its more of a pain
<AlanBell> I think I will go cast a vote
<danfish> morning all
<danfish> anyone know which browsers in XP support websockets?
<danfish> nvm - latest chrome seems to work :)
 * oimon wonders why people still vote in person rather than postal voting, where you receive all the ballot papers up front, and you have time to decide
<czajkowski> odd.... my laptop has decided to reboot itself all on it;s own now twice this morning. For no reason.
<DJones> oimon: Surely if you vote in person, you have longer to decide because you don't need to send the vote off earlier
 * czajkowski needs to go find her place to vote
<oimon> DJones: depends when you receive the info on all the candidates. quite often it is when you turn up at the ballot box
<oimon> when i voted for london mayor, i seem to remember it was some AV style system
<DJones> oimon: Ah, we get plenty of blue bin spam in the run up
<DJones> Blue bin being recycling
<oimon> i've missed votes in the past due to sudden change of plans in the evening
<gord> we can vote?
<gord> what are we voting on this time? celebrities again?
<dutchie> czajkowski: is it overheating?
<oimon> the yestoAV crowd would have you believe that you are voting for celebs
<oimon> based on the spam i received from them
<dutchie> i received no yes2av spam
<oimon> well they picked the worst possible celebs
<dutchie> apart from one man handing out flyers on cornmarket street yesterday who i ignored
<oimon> i received it in the post
<oimon> my wife never receives these things, i think it's because they know it doesn't annoy her
<gord> .. anti virus?
 * Laney sprints off to the polling station
<oimon> on a different topic, i'm trying to work out why attachmate bought novell in the first place
<MartijnVdS> because it thinks it will increase stockholder value
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> which bits? i never really understood how novell made money in recent years
<popey> morning ratfans!
<AlanBell> morning rat
<brobostigon> morning oimon, popey and AlanBell .
<oimon> bonjour#
<oimon> anyone know how i can make an alternating white/blue background on an openoffice sheet without lots of donkey work?
<oimon> e.g. row 1 white , row 2 blue, etc
<MartijnVdS> oimon: perl -MSpreadsheet::WriteExcel'
<MartijnVdS> :P
 * MartijnVdS checks
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I think you can cobble something together with AutoFormat
<MartijnVdS> (it might be called something else, I'm back-translating from Dutch)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Format -> AutoFormat...
<oimon> MartijnVdS: hey that seems to work
<oimon> thanks
<oimon> i create a format style for a few cells, then under autoformat create new format and then apply it :D
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Spreadsheet guru, I bow to you
<oimon> isn't that what i'm suposed to say?
<oimon> i'm creating my year-end budget 3months early :S
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I only know the names of the features
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I don't know how to use them properly
<urbanbush> morning all. I upgraded to 11.04 yesterday to find X wont run and syslog message I am getting suggests that I should try module parameter 'video.allow_duplicates=1'. I don't know where to change this parameter. please point me in the right direction
<MartijnVdS> !bootoptions
<lubotu3> For a list and explanation on some of the boot options, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions
<MartijnVdS> wait, that's for the live CD
<MartijnVdS> urbanbush: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Editing Menus During Boot
<MartijnVdS> urbanbush: that's where you edit it -- add it after the "splash" bit on the "linux" line
<urbanbush> Dank u Martijn
<MartijnVdS> geen probleem, urbanbush
<gord> Ng! you around?
<Ng> gord: no I'm asquare
<Ng> ho ho ho
<Ng> what's up?
<MartijnVdS> â
<MartijnVdS> Ng: that's up
<Ng> thanks for helping me get up
<devush> hi. i am trying to run ubuntu 10.04 on the hosted server. i use desktop always. but my ISP does not supports the tools around ubuntu. they supports Centos mainly
<Ng> it's a necessary prerequisite for getting down
 * Ng gets down
<MartijnVdS> jump up jump up and get down!
<devush> i am left with the ssh login only. but on the other side CentOS is a real pain in terms of getting all the tools i need.
<MartijnVdS> time for a different ISP, I guess? :)
<devush> any suggestions advise?
<gord> Ng, i can't figure out a good workflow for maximising terminals in terminator. normally i just have a bunch of terminals open and navigate around them but on my netbook i really only have space for one, so i want to zoom it, do my stuff, then be able to switch to my other terminals
<devush> i wonder why the centos market share for server is so high compare to ubuntu. is the centos is long enough in the market? who else is hosting ubuntu server 10.04 e.g. here in UK?
<MartijnVdS> devush: Centos is like red hat, which has been in the "corporate support"/enterprise market for way longer than Ubuntu has
<MartijnVdS> devush: that said, there are loads of VPS providers that offer Ubuntu VPSes
<MartijnVdS> devush: and/or just leave the choice up to the customer
<phonex01> Hello people !
<devush> MartinjVdS:yes mine is also supporting 10.04 LTS compare to 4 versions of Centos. but with ubuntu just the ssh. with centos lots of control panels e.g. from Parallel to control the server
<Ng> gord: hmm. I do have to say that the typical workflow is lots of terminals all visible, but I do use ^X a lot to bring little ones up to full size to work in
<MartijnVdS> devush: No idea about that. I tend to not need anything besides ssh to control my server :)
<Ng> gord: keyboard navigation is a blind alley of failure, don't use that, but maybe try the built-in sloppy terminal focussing and ctrl-shift-x
<popey> devush: thats nothing to do with ubuntu vs centos, that's down to the provider
<devush> MartinjnVdS: yes. i think is again talk to back on the command line stuff. i have not really used the linux and commandline as i stuck with the big company for last 10-12 year. i used to be a web master and solaris administrator.
<gord> Ng, ctrl+shift+z/x seems to be working well, thanks :)
<Ng> gord: z is intended to be mostly to show people what's happening in a tiny little term, where x is about getting all the useful workspace
<Ng> gord: but that's just me :)
<bigcalm> Does anybody have a prefered WordPress plugin for Google Maps?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] LoCo Directory: Next Steps - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/05/loco-directory-next-steps/
<brobostigon> it is possible toreverse engineer a qr back, into the text that made it?
<brobostigon> qr code*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: elaborate please.
<MartijnVdS> 1 sec phone
<brobostigon> ok.
<MartijnVdS> http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx
<MartijnVdS> those people make a barcode decoding library (for photos etc., as it's used on phones)
<MartijnVdS> and they have an on-line decoder that can read the text in a QR code
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am trying to figure out todays googlenexus puzzle, http://www.google.com/nexus/challenge2/manpdkeho.html
<MartijnVdS> that looks like it's several QR codes in one.
<MartijnVdS> one for each colour
<MartijnVdS> or maybe some colour mixes (blue + yellow = green?)
<brobostigon> because i always thought, the whole qr needs to be a singlecolour.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that is correct
<popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190502910035&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123
<popey> interesting device
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: so what you do: take this picture, make all blue (and green) pixels black, scan
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: then take the original picture, do the same with yellow/green
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MartijnVdS> popey: but is it supported in Linux?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, interesting idea, i onder whoe to do it though.
<MartijnVdS> popey: (my card works but apparently there's a driver bug -- it tells some chip to add too much white noise before tuning, making tuning impossible. Or something :|)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: gimp, play with the colour/saturation bits :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or magic select + paint bucket
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, :)
<brobostigon> no gimp, need to install it.
<MartijnVdS> popey: apparently, it works: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Technisat_SkyStar_USB_2_HD_CI
<MartijnVdS> uhrm
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> "Currently unsupported"
<bigcalm> popey: stop tempting me with tech gadgets
<MartijnVdS> ah.. "it works" for some people
<popey> it works in 2.6.39
<MartijnVdS> popey: I love how it requires a "Sound blaster compatible sound card"
<popey> i just spoke to a friend who has one
<MartijnVdS> popey: stop tempting me :P
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'd want the CI-capable version though, and those cost twice as much :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: or could i justchange the different colour channels, back to black?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: as long as what's <colour> now becomes black (white?) and the other colours become white (black?), it shuold work
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: at least, I think that's it
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm, i think i see, this is my first time using gimp.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no better time to learn :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: simply to win a phone.
<brobostigon> or i have to much time on my hands, either way.
<Seeker`> bah, I'm ill, do I bother going out to vote?
<MartijnVdS> yes, you do
<brobostigon> gimp isnt friendly.
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: am ill enough to stay home from work
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: are you sick enough of FPTP :)
<Seeker`> not really
<MartijnVdS> remember: if you stay at home you don't get to complain about it if you don't like the outcome ;P
<Myrtti> I must be weird but I understand d'Hondt better than AV
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: You're Finnish, right? Your words have checksums. No wonder you understand weird voting systems ;)
<popey> lol
<Myrtti> yeah, Ã¤Ã¶y can't be in the same words as aou...
<Myrtti> I guess it makes sense
<Myrtti> my brain is wired differently
<MartijnVdS> :)
<popey> Myrtti: http://i.imgur.com/kk2lZ.jpg :)
<Seeker`> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uet4f3QwRQw&feature=related
<Myrtti> popey: I think that my lack of not-understanding go deeper than 1-2-3
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Have you ever seen Debian's voting system?
<brobostigon> i give up, i cant get it.
<Myrtti> is it CIVS?
<Seeker`> The count the "1" votes. if noone has 50%, they disregard the lowest candidate, and recount the votes, but if someone voted for the removed candidate their 2nd vote is used
<Seeker`> etc. etc. until someone has greater than 50% of the vote
<AlanBell> or until you run out of votes to transfer
<MooDoo> ooooo voting discussion.
<Myrtti> well, I'm so confused with the British voting system anyway and the party politics that my interest in the AV is purely theoretical.
<gord> *thrilling* isn't it!
<MooDoo> so who's voting no?
<Myrtti> I understand it's better than FPTP, but the underlying mechanics are bewildering
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: tories?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yes i know that :D
<popey> Be good to discuss the process, but lets not get into the specifics of who is voting which way
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Debian's voting works like this: http://seehuhn.de/pages/vote
<MartijnVdS> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method)
<Seeker`> I don't think AV will work unless most of the population understands that "coalition" means that the party will have to compromise
<MartijnVdS> We've never had anything but a coalition here in .nl
<MartijnVdS> So it _is_ possible :)
<Seeker`> most of this governments term so far has been filled with whining by lib dems that they aren't getting all of their manifesto promises, without actually understanding that they didn't _win_ the election
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: but neither dit the other guys
<Seeker`> No, but the other guys didn't get everything they wanted, and they got a larger number of seats too
<TheOpenSourcerer> FPTP FTW!
<popey> I just filed bug 777759, wonder who will get 777777
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 777759 in casper (Ubuntu) "10.10 live CD prompts to upgrade to 11.04" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777759
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: try saying that 10 times fast :)
<popey> yes, say it 10 times
<popey> in ##politics
<popey> :p
<MartijnVdS> popey: 8-)
<brobostigon> ##politics-uk :)
 * popey notes brobostigon says that every single time I say ##politics
<oimon> research has proven that endless reiteration of people's opinion via twitter does not make any difference
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> proportional d'Hondt â¥
<exobuzz> i had one of these last night. for a supermarket jar curry. wow http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/articles.aspx?page=articles&ID=216769
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: so I've even voted on a couple of concordet elections for Ubuntu related stuff, but it still doesn't make much sense in the UK parliamentary election connection. But then again, Finland is a small country and our system works fine for us. Probably impossible for the UK
<exobuzz> *hot*
<popey> \o/ yay for exobuzz changing the subject
<popey> double yay for it being curry
<exobuzz> hehe
<exobuzz> this thing hasnt lost any heat during processing by the body.
<oimon> exobuzz: i find that curry paste+tomatoes makes a much more authentic tasting sauce, for similar effort expended
<exobuzz> oimon, sometimes im drunk and lazy, but i have a cupboard full of spices and make my own garam masala etc
<exobuzz> (in a coffee grinder). coffee made in it tastes extra special after
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> "special"
<TheOpenSourcerer> exobuzz: http://twitpic.com/4evxfi
<exobuzz> but that jar sauce is worth a try. i was thinking "how hot can it really be".
<oimon> hmm i notice spotify now has a counter in the corner, telling me how long this month i have used it..until 10hrs cutoff point
<exobuzz> TheOpenSourcerer, very nice. what sorts? (cant read the labels)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now they are quite a bit bigger.
 * oimon can't eat food containing chilli since the age of 27 :(
<exobuzz> TheOpenSourcerer, i planted some habenero seeds the other day. a little late i guess but hopefully a long hot summer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/29/ot-the-return-of-the-chillies/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I start mine at the end of Jan.
<exobuzz> dorset naga. jolokia. your gonna be on fire
<exobuzz> you're
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am now going off to vote and get some lunch.
<TheOpenSourcerer> All this talk of food.
<exobuzz> i grew some purira chillies that i really enjoyed some yaers ago. something like that. very nice flavour and each plant was plentiful
<exobuzz> oh yeh. voting. must go and do that
<DJones> I might get some chillies now I've got a greenhouse
 * brobostigon plans to, at somepoint this afternoon.
<oimon> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/mark-shuttleworth-talks-windicators-changes-for-unity-in-oneiric-and-whole-lot-more
<oimon> for those who didn't catch it already
<exobuzz> thanks.
<exobuzz> "Are you satisfied with Unity in the recent Ubuntu version ?" Yes.. - oh dear
<MartijnVdS> More money than sense, that one :P
<DJones> Heh, I wonder if I can get commission for them quoting my question & his answer
<oimon> well, yes if you see how far they've come..no if you think it's finished
<exobuzz> repost. but am i satisfied with unity. not quite. could you change those icons sizes based on screen res please! http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png
<exobuzz> (my joggler)
<exobuzz> mouse accessibility is still broken in natty. they just need to downgrade mousetweaks. taking their time :(
<oimon> "Weâll work out the details in round two." - this is why i'm staying with lucid for now - natty is vista
<exobuzz> overlay scrollbars are terrible and dont work well on touchscreens too.
<Myrtti> Xubuntu â¥
<exobuzz> Myrtti, no gvfs though right? i like the simplicity though
<exobuzz> "windicators" hmm. im not convinced about this
<Myrtti> exobuzz: no, but I have no or little use of it anyway - nothing that commandline script couldn't do
<davmor2> exobuzz: you can of course install plugins that replicate the bulk of the gvfs work or install gvfs being as it is gtk+ based not sure what else of gnome that would pull in though
<exobuzz> because i like the classic desktop style, xfce might be a choice depending on what happens at ubuntu. or i might go back to linux mint.
<exobuzz> i like the mint menu, although it could be a bit leaner and quicker to load
<popey> exobuzz: tried unity2d on joggler?
<exobuzz> popey, yep. thats the screenshot
<popey> oh
<exobuzz> 3d unity doesnt work with emgd as with other opengl apps.
<exobuzz> popey, it works, but since you cant use applets, not brightness control in the menubar
<popey> cant you whitelist the applet?
<exobuzz> i actually find the classic desktop easier to use on the joggler still
<popey> e.g. skype is whitelisted
<exobuzz> popey, i dunno, i thought applets just didnt work fullstop? is there documentation on getting things working ?
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/how-to-hide-or-show-app-tray-applets-in-ubuntu-11-04/
<davmor2> popey: you'll get shuned if you use omgubuntu links
<exobuzz> popey, is this just for systray apps or it works with actual applets too?
<exobuzz> i guess i can try it
<exobuzz> thanks
<popey> davmor2: meh
<popey> davmor2: find me the documentation on an "official" site and I'll use that
<oimon> to sort of people than shun for using certain links are the sort of people than shun ubuntu users for not using a more l33t linux distro :D
<davmor2> popey: I'm teasing I do it all the time and get whinged at :)
<oimon> popey: http://askubuntu.com/questions/30742/how-do-i-access-and-enable-more-icons-to-be-in-the-system-tray/30748#30748
<popey> brilliant, thanks!
 * popey upvotes
<exobuzz> popey, you can try unity 2d on my latest natty image on the joggler. would be interested in seeing what you think. i find the classic menus still quicker to navigate on the joggler touchscreen
<Dave2> notification area!
<popey> YES! THAT!
<Dave2> I wonder if it's still called that in Gnome 3. It doesn't notify you of much.
<gord> the "pssst have you heard? shhhhh" area
<popey> the "LOOK AT ME, I'M SKYPE" area
<brobostigon> Dave2: yes, it is, but it does much more now, it holds applets aswell.
<davmor2> Dave2: no it technically doesn't exist in gnome3 honest notifications come from the bottom of the screen
<Dave2> davmor2: it's still there when you move the mouse to the bottom-right
<brobostigon> Dave2: or pops up, when you get a noitifivation, or an applet comes alive.
<davmor2> Dave2: still less than informative
<oimon> anyone still think lastpass is safe?
<DJones> You mean now they might have been hacked?
<oimon> yeah
<Dave2> brobostigon: I thought the notification itself appeared at the bottom, but the area didn't.
<popey> oimon: yes
<brobostigon> Dave2: both are true, it pops up there, and live in the bottom to bottom right.
<Dave2> (I've been using it on my desktop for a while now, after accidentally replacing Gnome 2 with it. I was trying to find out whether I found it more tolerable than Unity. Which thankfully I do.)
<Dave2> (However I'm currently at work where I'm running Gnome 2 so am going from memory.)
<davmor2> Dave2: Now I'm the other way round, I found gnome shell really nice in comparison with unity in 10.10 but now much prefer unity over gnome shell in 11.04
<Dave2> I didn't give Unity too much of a chance, but I now can't give it any, what with having replaced Gnome 2. But it just annoyed me to work with it. Maybe being stuck in Gnome 3's forced me to adapt to it, and if I did the same with Unity I'd also be fine.
<Dave2> But then, I'd have to familiarize myself with multiple interfaces, as I'm not going to be running Ubuntu everywhere. (This machine's Fedora.)
<oimon> Dave2: classic gnome is still an option from the login screen in natty
<Dave2> Not when you've accidentally replaced Gnome 2 with Gnome 3 it's not. (And nor is Unity. Well, both are options listed, neither work.)
<oimon> oh, i didn't realise it was possible to actually replaceit
<oimon> gnome3 has the biggest, most useless title bars i've ever seen
<Dave2> most useless?
<DJones> Dave2: From what I've read, Unity & Gnome 3 are incompatible at the moment
<popey> in 11.04, yes
<DJones> popey: Yes, sorry, should have added that bit
<Dave2> DJones: exactly my point
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great deal at Tesco express for lunch. Ch. Tikka Masala & Pilau Rice Â£2.59p, 6 x O.Bhaji Â£1.00
 * bigcalm wallows in his chicken meat 'n chips
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: on a diet again ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Smothered in freshly chopped habanero chilli.
 * danfish hides my pastie and monster munch lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> The chilli adds lots of important vitamins. 500x Viit C. of an Orange apparently
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: and a portion of your five a day :)
<bigcalm> Ignoring the phone while on lunch is so much fun
<oimon> twitter needs a politics filter :(
<exobuzz> TheOpenSourcerer, nice! hungry now :
<popey> \o/ pizza
<exobuzz> + habanero chilli. lol
<exobuzz> pizza yay
 * danfish has just got to finish some websockety stuff and then it's semi-automatic chilli watering system time:)
<KrisDouglas> I have no lunch
<KrisDouglas> and there is nobody in my office :(
<KrisDouglas> so I can't leave
<KrisDouglas> I do however have a can of relentless :)
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: have something delivered to the office
<KrisDouglas> No delivery places are open in the daytime in Stone
<oimon> what does relentless taste like?
<oimon> all those energy drinks seem to taste of chemicals
<KrisDouglas> Slightly sharper than red bull.
<oimon> eww
<KrisDouglas> It tastes like apple juice
<KrisDouglas> kinda.
<oimon> red bull tastes of nasty with added tcp
<KrisDouglas> I don't like red bull.
<bigcalm> TCP/RB ?
<oimon> rootbeer?
<KrisDouglas> I tend to only drink tea and squash :P
<oimon> when i was little i liked the peanuts strip so i went to mcdonalds and bought a rootbeer cos thats what snoopy liked. discovered that it was the basis for the tcp-like taste in redbull
<exobuzz> i wish i hadnt drunk ta whole bottle of wine last night after 2 pints of cider and a pint of stella.
<KrisDouglas> I don't drnk
<KrisDouglas> Drink*
<exobuzz> and then posted drunkenly on a forum. need computer breathalyzer
<oimon> lol
<KrisDouglas> Ooh "Help improve Microsoft SQL Server 2008"
<KrisDouglas> "Yes please microsoft, put an uninstall icon on my desktop for me."
<popey> "port it to linux"
<KrisDouglas> Good god man.
<KrisDouglas> Once you get around the slowness of the management studio, it's a relatively usable database platform. Sadly.
<KrisDouglas> We're moving to postgres or mysql though
<MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: except you can't really use it from other OSes
 * brobostigon returns from doing his democratic duty.
<oimon> what's the future of mysql ?
<KrisDouglas> We don't run desktop apps in our office.
<MartijnVdS> oimon: /dev/null
<oimon> it's still the defacto standard her
<KrisDouglas> oimon, MartijnVdS, I think that's about right
<oimon> her=here
<MartijnVdS> I've used PostgreSQL for ages now
<MartijnVdS> MySQL feels scary, with its broken referential integrity and broken transaction support
<MartijnVdS> (even with innodb)
<MartijnVdS> also, its non-SQL99/SQL2003-compliant dialect *shudder*
<oimon> "There is no real argument for the No campaign." - just written by some numpty on facebook
<oimon> but how do you spell LAMP with postgres?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Linux, Apache, My App, Postgresql
<KrisDouglas> LAPP
<KrisDouglas> So what do you guys recommend database wise, I do not mind changing to something better. I don't really like the way My is going anyway
<KrisDouglas> popey, feel free to shoot me if you don't want this dirty offtopic talk here
<davmor2> oimon: Linux, Apache, Mission_critical_database_postgresql, PHP
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, Classic.
<smilcha30> is this channel live? anyone here?
<KrisDouglas> smilcha30, Yeah it is.
<davmor2> smilcha30: no
<smilcha30> omg
<oimon> just 140 bots chilling out
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, spoilsport
<smilcha30> any sexy ladies here?
<oimon> lol
<KrisDouglas> smilcha30, davmor2
<smilcha30> just joking
<oimon> only bearded ones
<KrisDouglas> oimon, haha
<smilcha30> has anyone tried to run linux on new sandy bridge  processors ?
<smilcha30> I`m just a newbie and got my ubuntu on  only today
<davmor2> smilcha30: I've not personally
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: Sexy I may be, so much so that when I met prince william he said I need a hair cut like that and promptly started shedding hair, but I'm no Lady!
<oimon> sexy is subjective anyway
<smilcha30> it is hard to believe that only bearded guys are here, back in my country we had some nice chicks as admins
<oimon> do you work on a chicken farm or something?
<popey> ahem
<oimon> AlanBell has some chicks working for him
<smilcha30> nvm
<smilcha30> just got here by mistake,
<KrisDouglas> I don't have a beard.
<oimon> i don't either, but i don't understand the shaving every day thing if you aren't a sales person
<KrisDouglas> And ubuntu is the only distro I can think of that has quite a hefty number of ladies working.
<oimon> \o/
 * popey suspects AlanBell knows the %age of women who are Ubuntu members
<oimon> which other distro can say they sell ladies tshirts in their store
<popey> which other distros have stores?
<popey> i guess fedora does?
<brobostigon> suse?
<popey> SOOOOOZAH!
<oimon> you could work out the %age of ladies names on the oggcamp list and extrapolate it to the entire open source population. that what most surveys seem to do
<popey> heh
<oimon> i see suse has become the "german distro" again
<smilcha30> all right guys. I`m ready to learn some linux stuff, where should I start?
<bigcalm> smilcha30: what bits are you interested in?
<MooDoo> popey: fedora doesn't really have one, redhat does
<popey> ah
<oimon> i have redhat gear
<popey> Start with minecraft :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<MooDoo> +1
<bigcalm> popey++
<oimon> tshirt, cap, bag, mug, usb stick, rechargeable battery, pen holder
 * DJones wonders if the redhat store sells hats in other colours other than red?
<davmor2> popey: That just evil!
<MooDoo> smilcha30: download a live cd and start with that :D
<gord> i bet people looking for red hats on google are certainly very disappointed
<gord> or fedoras really
<smilcha30> MooDoo,  got my system up and installed,
<MooDoo> smilcha30: ah ! :)
<bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2224#comic # this is the real reason for shaving :S
<DJones> !manual | smilcha30 Possibly a good place to start would be this link,
<lubotu3> smilcha30 Possibly a good place to start would be this link,: The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<davmor2> smilcha30: what do you want to learn?
<smilcha30> no idea
<smilcha30> just to use ubuntu as dayly os
<DJones> !terminal
<lubotu3> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
<MooDoo> smilcha30: just get yourself familiar where evertyhing is
<DJones> smilcha30: Thats another good one to start looking at
<smilcha30> kk thanks
<oimon> i also recommend the manual
<popey> !manual
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Too late
<DJones> Heh, I was also going to suggest not talking about female ubuntu users as chicks etc, that probably won't be appreciated
<oimon> irc is funny...sometimes when i pop into another room and ask a question, i feel like i should idle for 1 hr after the qu is answered then leave
<Pendulum> DJones: +1
<brobostigon> DJones: +1
<gord> gord +1
<popey> +42
<bigcalm> +19
<gord> cheater
<oimon> DJones: i find it better to pretend i don't know what he means
<Pendulum> that said, if AlanBell ever gets chicks of the avian variety, we can talk about his chicks
<DJones> Pendulum: he has chickens
<popey> I cuddled AlanBell's chicks a while back
<oimon> time for my budget meeting with big boss
<Pendulum> DJones: I know. In the US chicks = baby chickens and you never refer to adult chickens as chicks
<MooDoo> i think i called pleia2 a chick once......still got the virtual bruises :D
<popey> I called pleia2 and other women "guys" once :)
<DJones> Pendulum: Right, I call baby chickens fried eggs in waiting & adults chickens a sundy roast :)
<popey> oops
<MooDoo> popey: oooops
<gord> guys is non gender specific to me, but maybe its just me
<Pendulum> haha
<popey> was especially lolworthy given my mail was about Ubuntu Women :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: "NOBODY.. CALLS ME.. CHICKEN" </McFly>
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Chicken! :P
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: :)
<gord> ... didn't open tag
<MartijnVdS> woohoo, made gord throw an exception 8-)
<DJones> Maybe saying "Alright chuck" would be ok around manchester area (In a Vera Duckworth husky voice)
<popey> Hi-yaaaaa!
<popey> </laura>
<gord> </kungfu>
 * MartijnVdS tries Unity 2D on $old_machine
<MooDoo> czajkowski: alright chick :)
 * MooDoo is waiting for the punch
<AlanBell> popey: just over 5% but the stats for this month have not yet been run
<AlanBell> oggcamp was just under 10% for the first 200
<Pendulum> somehow I think oggcamp is a bit higher of a percentage than most of open source
<AlanBell> it is not a global thing
<Pendulum> yeah
 * davmor2 punch MooDoo on czajkowski behalf
<gord> wow branching lp:unity is huge
<MooDoo> davmor2: cheers laddo
<nigelb> gord: does bzr have a depth option like git?
<davmor2> gord: it is scarily big isn't it
<gord> nigelb, depth?
<nigelb> gord: that way you get latest and nothing more and you can use it normally. Its faster.
<nigelb> gord: (you can't get history, because its a shallow clone)
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/05/a_15_computer_to_inspire_young.html
<davmor2> MooDoo: didn't want you feeling unloved
<MooDoo> davmor2: too late, she's not even poked me :(
<popey> http://www.raspberrypi.org/
<DJones> That looks more like a naked USB stick
<gord> nigelb, i assume so, but such a thing isn't useful to me, normally i have bzr share branch tree's, so you have a directory containing unity trunk that you keep up todate and any branches you make in that directory come from your local trunk, which is fast
<nigelb> gord: ah, yes. I forgot I do the same for summit and loco-ddirectory. Its much cleaner, yes :-)
<KrisDouglas> mozzarella
<KrisDouglas> What the god happened there, i was supposed to be posting bizarre.
<KrisDouglas> I didn't even use spellcheck, i just typed that.
<DJones> KrisDouglas: That is more bizarre thinging bizarre and spelling it mozzarella
<KrisDouglas> Someone mentioned pizza
<KrisDouglas> and I has just told my GF we are having pizza for tea.
<KrisDouglas> Makes sense.
<KrisDouglas> Yay, I killed Ubuntu-UK
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<dogmatic69> whole vhost for that?
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Why not?
<KrisDouglas> popey, I like it.
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> popey: get it its own ipv4 address :P
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: those cost money now
<davmor2> dogmatic69: I told him to animate it rolling off the page cause it would be far funnier but no
<KrisDouglas> Speaking of hosts, I need to get a static IP for my house. Need to get my website back up.
<MartijnVdS> \o/ IPv6
<popey> it's one of many
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/ comes out when pizza is mentioned
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: aws charges you if you dont use it
<bigcalm> joke.
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: why just use dyndns
<dogmatic69> popey: lol
<KrisDouglas> popey, do you actually have a day job? :P
<popey> Yes, but I dont work for canonical!
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what? v6?
<davmor2> popey: ah so you have time :P
<KrisDouglas> davmor2, I never really liked that service, can you assign real domain names to that nowadays?
<KrisDouglas> (as in, not a .dyndns hostname)
<popey> yes
<KrisDouglas> Oh.
<popey> i used to point popey.com at a dyndns.host
<popey> and then that pointed to my house
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: v4
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: you can on paid iirc but on free you can have various include .org again iirc
<KrisDouglas> I am way behind the times with that, I might go check out to see how much it is to not get nagged every 2 weeks.
<KrisDouglas> i have krisd.eu
<popey> KrisDouglas: nagged?
<popey> I never get nagged
<MartijnVdS> Is there a way to get Thunderbird to play nice with the Messages indicator?
<popey> i have a domain and point it at a dyndns hostname (cname) and that points to my dynamic IP
<DJones> KrisDouglas: I do the same, point a website at dyndns & that points to my home which in turn points to a server
<popey> near-zero effort
<KrisDouglas> $2.50 a month is perfect.
 * popey pays $0.00 a month
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#ebsPricing
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I don't use AWS
<dogmatic69> pay if you ask for one and dont use it :P
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: yes, also http://newenterprise.allthingsd.com/20110325/got-any-old-ip-addresses-need-to-raise-cash-you-may-be-in-luck/
<KrisDouglas> Hmm, thanks for the info. I will setup a free account in that case and try it out :)
<DJones> dyndns did bring something in where if you didn't log in to dyndns or something changes/checked in automatically, you'd get a monthly nagging email
<popey> oh?
<DJones> (with the free service)
<popey> i have never had a mail from them
<DJones> I've only had one in about 6 months
<popey> ah
<DJones> I think if your connection drops for any reason, that forces a checkin which resets the counter
<KrisDouglas> DJones, I get that.
<KrisDouglas> I was getting one every fortnight or a month
<KrisDouglas> drove me round 't bend.
<KrisDouglas> t' bend*
<DJones> popey: Inactivity Expirations
<DJones> A Dynamic DNS Free host's activity is measured by how often the host's IP address is updated. If a host is not updated within 30 days, it will be removed from the system.
<DJones> To prevent these expirations, you can click the link in the expiry email sent every 25 days
<popey> ooo
<DJones> From http://www.dyndns.com/support/kb/dyndns.html
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: DJones just setup ddclient
<DJones> davmor2: I have :)
<davmor2> DJones: there is also dyndns as an app on ubuntu now too oldly
<livingdaylight> Haro
<dwatkins> Even my router at home does dyndns now.
<livingdaylight> popey, I looked up one review of lenovo 550 and it seemed to have hdmi out even though it was a lower spec processor. Unfortunately, the one on sale doesn't. That site has good deals though.
<davmor2> dwatkins: mine says it does but I kept getting issues from it so went for ddclient on my server instead
<kazade> what the...  I've had some kind of graphical corruption on my Xchat window all day that made it look like no-one had said anything all day.. I just moved the window and I can see about 6 pages of chat scrollback! :/
<popey> haha
<livingdaylight> This HP G62 seems a nice deal at Â£350http://www.ebuyer.com/product/257135
<dwatkins> davmor2: I'd best check my BT Home Hub really is doing it then, thanks.
<davmor2> dwatkins: most seem to without issue I think mine is just trying my patience :)
<dwatkins> Seems to be working ok, although knowing BT's hardware it'll fall over mid-evening.
<gord> dynamic dns is really annoying these days, because of the 30 day problem, would love to just run some software on my server that does the same thing
<dwatkins> the fact they require you to visit the site each month with a free account?
<dwatkins> gord: that's enough to make me very tempted to pay, and it's not particularly expensive, is it?
 * popey wonders why he isnt getting any of these issues
<gord> its not a service i feel i want to pay for though, i'd rather do it myself
<livingdaylight> can anyone recommend a better computer for Â£350 or less than said HP G62 above?
<gord> if it was for more than just "so i can ssh home when i'm away" - i would be more inclined to pay
<davmor2> popey: did you pay dyndns?
<popey> no
<gord> does your ip change a lot?
<popey> hence why I am boggling at all this talk
<popey> no
<popey> rarely
<davmor2> popey: or did you setup ddclient or dnydns locally?
<gord> do you have magical powers?
<popey> my router does the dyndns stuff
<popey> which is sensible surely?
<davmor2> popey: that's why then
<bigcalm> Does anybody have Adobe Acrobat Reader X installed? I need to know if it has an save or export to JPG feature
<popey> right
<popey> so everyone moaning.. do that
<popey> and stop moaning
<dwatkins> yeah, I think my router does the updates, and because my IP changes regularly, it satisfies the 'update once a month' thing
<popey> and no money changes hands
<popey> win
<davmor2> popey: the router is updating it once a day
<popey> my mum also uses it and I installed ddclient for her
<bigcalm> I use ddclient so that I can use the dyn feature on my own domain names with joker.com
<gord> my router does the dyndns stuff and i still lose my account frequently :)
<gord> hrm,
<gord> maybe its that my router only updates the dyndns account *when* my ip changes, whereas popey's updates it say, every week regardless
 * popey shrugs
<popey> its some netgear thing
<kazade> Haha, classic letter in this week's MicroMart: "The truth of the matter is they [Linux users] have been forced to onto Linux not because of a badly written OS from Microsoft, but their inability to operate it in the proper manner"
<dwatkins> and my IP address changes all the time because I'm with BT ;)
<popey> wow, people buy MicroMart?
<bigcalm> My grandmother has sky but no server, so the router is set to use dyndns.org. Sadly her IP address doesn't change often enough to stop the 30 day timeout
<dwatkins> the proper manner for operating windows is 1) insert linux CD or USB stick 2) reinstall? ;)
<kazade> popey, heh, me and a couple of other people
<davmor2> popey, gord: netgear does it each day or week where as mine does it on change same as yours
<davmor2> gord: install ddclient
<gord> davmor2, ddclient gets around router problems? i'm not sure if dyndns guess your ip from whatever is connecting or if you supply the ip
<gord> it was a problem like 5 years ago when i last had a client update it
<davmor2> gord: ddclient is designed to just ping dyndns with your ip as far as I can see
<davmor2> livingdaylight: that is the one I said to get from currys, 349 :P  also you'll have woes with the ralink 5390 wifi if you get it I'll try and find you the link that finally worked for me
<KrisDouglas> kazade, that is typical.
<KrisDouglas> kazade, the contents of the message, that is.
<KrisDouglas> popey, what router do you have?
<popey> uuuuuhm
<popey> no idea
<popey> white netgear thing
<popey> however I am moving to a superhub
<popey> probably tomorrow because I'll be at home :D
<hamitron> superhub?
<popey> virgin 30Mb
<hamitron> heh, super ;)
<popey> needs a new modem because it's a new DOCSIS version or something
<popey> yeah, I hear it's "super"
<bigcalm> popey: when do you get your next bill? ;)
<bigcalm> Ooo, 3 4sq friend requests. I am popular!
<popey> :D
<bigcalm> 2 added, 1 ignored
<bigcalm> Not sure what you do with friends on 4sq though
<popey> compete for points :)
<popey> one of my co-workers checks in as he drives past places :(
<Myrtti> popey: the "not-Canonical" reminds me with my (lately smaller than before) problem of "not-Nokia"
<popey> :S
<popey> join!
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
<popey> all except gord are welcome
<popey> :)
<davmor2> popey: really?
<popey> and you
<popey> and her
<popey> and him
<MartijnVdS> :|
 * davmor2 takes potshots at popey with his spud gun
<hamitron> people think you work for them?
<davmor2> popey: let me know if they get close
<oimon> the trouble with those giant 150g bags of sensations crisps is that it's easy to eat the whole bag in one go
<hamitron> :D
<oimon> it's very hard to judget what a normal bag zied amount of crisps is without weighing them
<krimzon2> I'd say stop before you feel satisfied, but no amount of crisps is actually satisfying
<hamitron> they so are
<popey> eat chocolate first
<popey> crisps are much tastier after chocolate
 * DJones looks at the multipack of walkers crisps set at the other end of the room and notes that it containts 40*25g bags
<hamitron> I used to eat 20 bags of space invaders at school
<oimon> yummmm
<oimon> pickled onion ones still live on as pickled onion niknaks
<oimon> just finished easter egg numbre 1
<oimon> i need to pick up the pace
<hamitron> yeh :/
<AlanBell> you have a pickled onion easter egg?
<Azelphur> just ordered my dell inspiron duo, got it for Â£320 :D
<hamitron> nice going
<Myrtti> I wish I had a tube of pringles
<oimon> does it work on ubuntu?
<Azelphur> oimon: inspiron duo? should do :p
<oimon> ummm
<oimon> not out of the box
<Myrtti> see, now my thoughts are polluted
<Azelphur> oh sure not ootb, but I can just reload it.
<Myrtti> one can always read: "does it work for ubuntu"
<davmor2> Myrtti: I have one I'll share it with you
<oimon> i'm about to buy a thinkpad x220 tablet for someone
<oimon> the x201 is ubuntu certified ..x200 not quite yet
<oimon> CentOS PubCrawl on 10th May, London Earls Court Area; signup + details :http://bit.ly/iCNfoh
<oimon> sorry wrong room :P
<Azelphur> Anyone know how I'd go about debugging gmail sending all mail from my domain(s) to the spam folder?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: gmail or gmail-for-your-domain?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ("normal" or "apps")
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I have google apps, but my webserver sends mail out for account registration and stuff
<DJones> Azelphur: All mails you send from your domain are going into other people spam folder?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it probably thinks your server = spam server (because you forwarded spammy messages)
<DJones> Blacklisted?
<Azelphur> DJones: not n any blacklist I know of
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: enable dkim
<MartijnVdS> it might help (but it might not)
<Azelphur> it's in a situation atm where mail from my webserver is all spam
<DJones> Azelphur: https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=81126
<Azelphur> but spam I send from google apps is ok
<Azelphur> DJones: nice, I'll go through that
<DJones> Azelphur: Thats linked from "If you're sending to Gmail users and are seeing your messages marked as spam, please review our Bulk Senders guide."
<shauno> spf & dkim aren't too painful to setup, and seem to get you on gmail's good side pretty quickly
<Azelphur> yea. I'll give it a go :)
<Azelphur> lol every single mail on the first page of my spam folder isn't spam \o/
<oimon> been told i haven't spent enough this year :(
 * DJones sends oimon a bill for "Consultancy services"
<oimon> going on a shopping spree for Â£30k of gear
<oimon> "use it or lose it"
<Azelphur> oimon: computer gear? :O
<oimon> yes ..IT gear
<bigcalm> Scuba gear!
<Azelphur> awesome XD
<MartijnVdS> computers have gears?!
<oimon> mainly PCs and printers tbh
<Azelphur> oimon: alienware laptop + custom built supercomputer?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: glxgears?
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ...
 * oimon is happy with his standard dell desktop
<MartijnVdS> DJones: you mean.. glxgears = transparent window?!
<oimon> although 2nd monitor/vga card would be nice
<selinuxium> Hi all, how is everyone?
<livingdaylight> what happened to the spinning cube craze?
<MartijnVdS> people got crazy :)
 * oimon checks to see if he has the cube
<oimon> i can't live without wobble on my windows though
<livingdaylight> my windows don't wobble or anything
<oimon> it's less of a wobble, more fluidity
<gord> whenever i see the apple logo on someones system it always reminds me more of a moon eclipsing a giant apple rather than a bite
<CaMason> oh fie - 11.04 installer crashed
<livingdaylight> CaMason, have to tread carefully, there are landmines
<CaMason> evidently
<livingdaylight> everyone fill in their consensus forms? For some reason it is criminal not to do so - can't figure out why. Just had a guy at my door step visiting about it.
<DJones> Does rotate cube work with unity? I thought when I looked at enabling it, it brought up a warning message about something having to be disabled
<CaMason> livingdaylight, yup, it's a legal requirement. What's more - a US arms company are dealing with all the data.
<CaMason> ..which the US gvt could legally access under the Patriot act
<livingdaylight> CaMason I don't want to submit anything as a matter of principle; it seems illegal to me to force people into giving information like the one's their asking.
<CaMason> precisely
<Azelphur> hmm, this is fun. My text rendering is kinda doing every other character
<oimon> i don't remeber them asking an particularly personal questions
<DJones> Pretty much all I remember about filling in the form is Name, address, age, where do I work, what is my job title, marital status
<oimon> yeah
<gord> summit.ubuntu.com pages have QR-codes now, thats awesome
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-05-155649_3840x1200_scrot.png
<Azelphur> what is this madness
<popey> thats a url
<CaMason> lol
<Azelphur> popey: was more interested in the contents of the URL :p
<Azelphur> more specifically where half my text seems to have wandered off to
<popey> oh, i know that
<Azelphur> text, I can only has half of it :p
<popey> it's a portable network graphic file
<popey> hosted on dropbox
<livingdaylight> DJones, all that information they have already. As I say it's more the principle and what baffles me is how they intent to bully people into submitting it, or else...
<popey> HTH HAND
<Laney> "too much bling detected"
<DJones> yay, Desire HD is getting a gingerbread update
<CaMason> random characters missing. My Favourite is 'ETWORK'
<popey> yeah, you dont have enough CPUs for all those pixels
<popey> something has to give
<Azelphur> lol
<oimon> DJones: how about regular desire?
<Azelphur> notice gcalctool is affected :p
<Azelphur> pretty much everything is affected, chrome is too
<Laney> i am jealous that you get to know the moon's phase at all times though
<oimon> i saw a galaxy s 2 yesterday, not bad, rather large but nice
<bigcalm> Titter \o/
<DJones> oimon: No idea, I just picked up on http://recombu.com/news/htc-desire-hd-gingerbread-update-rolls-out-to-vodafone-customers_M14226.html
<DJones> oimon: http://recombu.com/news/will-my-htc-phone-get-the-android-23-gingerbread-update_M13834.html
<Azelphur> popey: lol I switched to a tty and back as that usually fixes weird issues, now my display keeps freezing until I do something with compiz \o/
<DJones> oimon: Sounds like it will be happening, just doesn't say when
<oimon> (Three UK is promisingÂ an Android 2.3 update for theirÂ HTC DesireÂ customers mid-May.)
<livingdaylight> (Three UK is promising an Android 2.3 update for their HTC Desire customers mid-May.) <--- excellent
<Azelphur> and now the missing characters are back :D
<gord> had 2.3 for a while now, its good
<gord> worth it for the (for some chipsets) improved battery life
<oimon> speed + battery life eh?
<gord> didn't notice a speed difference, maybe slower phones have speed problems?
<oimon> hard to quantify though..often a placebo
<oimon> like when my car has a service it always goes faster
<davmor2> I'd completely forgotten about this wallpaper one for may the forth http://ubuntuone.com/p/r3y/
<oimon> davmor2: somebody spent some serious time on that
<oimon> i find stock android ugly compared to sense
<davmor2> oimon: they did in deed
<gord> i find stock sense tacky compared to android :)
<brobostigon> just saw a loan advert on tv, 1734% apr. auch, that should be illegal.
<popey> no, not at all.
<popey> if it's a short term loan then that makes total sense
<popey> I suspect the advert was for wonga.com?
<brobostigon> popey: i know it representative of the risk they are taking, but still, its is quite excesive.
<popey> no, it isnt
<popey> at all
<popey> A = Annual.
<brobostigon> popey: something similer, yes.
<popey> Yet short term loans are paid off very quickly
<popey> so you never accumulate that amount of debt
<brobostigon> true. yes.
<oimon> except that you do when you are the sort of person that needs a pay day loan
<brobostigon> popey: i think the length they were taking ws a length of several months, load period.
<brobostigon> loan*
<oimon> if you are short of Â£50 then you are the sort of person that will struggle to find the Â£75 repayment next month
<brobostigon> talking about*
<popey> oimon: generalisation fail
<popey> brobostigon: yes, and still not a year
<brobostigon> popey: no, true.
<oimon> popey: target market
<popey> oimon: some people have cash flow problems, or unexpected issues, car broken down for example, days before pay day
<oimon> otherwise why would i go to such a loan shark ^H^H^H^H company for Â£50 unless i was deperate
<popey> maybe they dont have a credit card
<popey> <- doesn't have a credit card for example
<oimon> if they have credit card or easy access savings then they will prob be in a similar position next month - i've read a lot of stories on moneysavingexpert and other sites of real users panicking about what's gonna happen to them
<brobostigon> me neither.
<popey> oimon: every case is different
<popey> I've been in a crap situation where bank balance reached beyond zero, out of my control
<popey> being self employed can do that to you.
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> it's not as simple as you paint
<oimon> nothing ever is black and white but there are trends and demographics
<popey> there are.
<oimon> i don't use a credit card for borrowing, i use it for easily pooling my outgoings rather than cash use which is hard to account for
<oimon> although it's sad to see Â£600 per month go on sainsburys & petrol
 * oimon notices Mr A R popey as the top reviewer on amazon for the Aspire revo r3600
<popey> haha
<popey> thats one of only two items I think I've ever reviewed
<popey> the other was an HP printer
<oimon> the r3700 is the one to get now right?
<popey> i think there's a newer one than that actually
<popey> maybe not
<popey> there's an ebuyer branded thing isnt there?
<oimon> i've seen ehttp://www.ebuyer.com/product/236579
<oimon> i need to get one to sit alongside my onelan signage screens
<Seeker`> credit cards are useful for getting a credit record
<Seeker`> if you don't have a credit record and need to borrow money companies tend to just peer at you suspiciously
<X3N> anyone here a fan of Meego (netbook)?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<oimon> i'd liek to see that tumbleweed moving
<popey> patches welcome
<oimon> i don't think meego would work on my eee 701
<DJones> Better tumbleweed http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/8/tumbleweed.gif/
<oimon> :D just needs sound
<popey> done
<popey> someone better at html / css can make it scale properly :)
<ixxvil> hi
<Seeker`> bah, tumbleweed is blowing the wrong way!
<Seeker`> They tumble from left to right. always.
<ixxvil> Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 13: $MFTMirr does not match $MFT (record 0).
<ixxvil> Failed to mount '/dev/sdh1': Input/output error
<ixxvil> getting these errors when i moutn an ext hdd
<ixxvil> i connected it to a different laptop and it worked
<popey> Seeker`: flip your screen upside down
<davmor2> Seeker`: No you are just sat the wrong side of the monitor
<oimon> wow that hurts my CPU
<kirrus> ixxvil: is it running NFTS?
<ixxvil> yes it is
<kirrus> http://wmarkito.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/how-to-fix-mftmirr-does-not-match-mft-record-0/
<ixxvil> NTFS is either inconsistent, or there is a hardware fault, or it's a....
<kirrus> Or in other words.. let me google that for you ;)
<ixxvil> gives me a bunch of directions
<popey> there are two instructions there
<popey> install ntfsprogs
<popey> run ntfsfix
<Seeker`> popey: http://pastebin.com/EQ5wHBp0
<popey> hah
<oimon> anyone using a type of kiosk mode on ubuntu?
<ixxvil> thanks
<ixxvil> also how do i do backups
<ixxvil> is it advisable to just copy the whole lot to a dvd or something?
<Seeker`> popey: \o/
<popey> ixxvil: deja-dup is a nice backup tool
<ixxvil> ok what does it do
<ixxvil> i mean it backs it up where though
<popey> where you tell it :)
<MartijnVdS> Can I teach unity to only show installed packages/programs?
<MartijnVdS> (and not the "Available for download" bit)
<ixxvil> thanks
<ixxvil> usually backup tools are it just saves all your files to somewhere you tell it to right?
<ixxvil> it's the same like writing to a disc isnt it?
<ixxvil> if i just get the whole hdd copied to a dvd or something, should work out right?
<selinuxium> Hmmm.... Anyone got any experience with grub rescue???
<ixxvil> nvm
<ixxvil> thanks
<davmor2> selinuxium: Nope but there is some good docs,  I'll see if I can find it for you if you want?
<selinuxium> davmor2, been reading a doc but isn't helpful... I am getting unknown file system...  think my linux parts are encryted..
<selinuxium> davmor2, everything showing as (hd0,msdos6) down to 1....
<davmor2> selinuxium: ah pass then sorry
<selinuxium> davmor2, np  :)
<selinuxium> davmor2, if it is too much bother I will just rebuild...
<davmor2> selinuxium: there is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<davmor2> selinuxium: from grub what happens if you login to rescue mode or is that what you meant?
<selinuxium> it boots into grub rescue... i have the first link... will look at the second link... :)
<selinuxium> booting froma live cd to find which part the /boot is actually held..
<davmor2> selinuxium: so you are dropping into grub rescue shell yes rather than booting?
<czajkowski> ok computer why are you randomly rebooting for no reason
<czajkowski> what so ever
<selinuxium> davmor2, yes... Just tried a manual restore of grub...
<selinuxium> finger crossed
 * selinuxium does a little dance... :) 
<kvarley> What program can I use to shrink a DVD9 disc DVD to a DVD5 disc size?
<selinuxium> davmor2, Sorted  :)
<selinuxium> davmor2, that second link helped! cheers...
<davmor2> selinuxium: Huzzah
<davmor2> kvarley: k9copy, dvd95
<selinuxium> handbrake?
<kvarley> davmor2: Thanks so much! I will try them out
<kvarley> selinuxium: I don't want to play with settings, just want to shrink the iso like dvdshrink does. Thanks for the suggestion tho! :)
<davmor2> selinuxium: handbrake copies it to hd in a format that you won't only doesn't it?
<selinuxium> davmor2, yeah, I think so...
<Azelphur> omg, I still have that missing text issue even after a reboot
<ali1234> funny how its just random letters
<ali1234> if it was all the 'o' it would make more sense
<ali1234> beginning to wonder if 2.6.28 has some weird memory corruption bug
<ali1234> i mean 2.6.38
<shauno> it'd be pretty strange for memory corruption to be restricted to freetype
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> unless it's very rare
<ali1234> ie it's not restricted
<shauno> if it's still just hitting his fonts after a reboot, it's not that rare
<Azelphur> my inspiron duo arrives tomorrow, exciting :p
<Azelphur> http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu says Ubuntu has "Built-in virus protection", what protection is built in? o.O
<kvarley> Azelphur: Read only access to the important parts of the filesystem?
<Azelphur> that's more of a resistance than a protection o.O
<kvarley> Azelphur: Hehe well idk
<Azelphur> when you say built in protection it usually means there's a built in scanner
<hamitron> bbl, pub, voting, pub
<davmor2> Azelphur: it actually say defence against viruses not an anti-virus,  so AA, separate root, zero open port by default etc are all defences against viruses
<Azelphur> I suppose :)
<DeathSling> Anyone know anything about vmbuilder?  I have it working on another host (a test host) but I can't get it to work this time round, wondered if it may be to do with a python release (I think I once saw something about it)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ping
<TheOpenSourcerer> pong czajkowski
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: want 2 tikcets for the rugby this weekend in twickenham ?
<czajkowski> Army V Navy ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - hang on a mo. Let me just check? What day/time?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: saturday
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: http://armynavymatch.org/
<awilkins> ok, UK voters can I ask favour i) if youve not voted yet, please do and ii) can you get snap of the QR code on your ballot paper for me?
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Blast - I can't make it I'm afraid - thanks for asking though - looks like a good day out.
<awilkins> I only thought about it after I voted, sadly
<Azelphur> no pirate party in my area so I cbf to vote :(
<awilkins> Don't even want to vote in AV referendum?
<awilkins> (thats what the QR code is on)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: no worries
<Ellipsis753> I've been trying to play a video with vlc, it really lags every few seconds, from terminal I go libva: va_openDriver() returns -1, suggesting that it can't work with my nvidia card. Any idea what I should do? I'd quite like to be able to play HD videos. Apparently I should ask here.
<ging> name stealer
<ging> i got confused as i thought i was talking but it wasnt me
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Future plans for this blog - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/future-plans-for-this-blog/
<MattJ> awilkins: I'm not sure I saw a QR code on my AV ballot
<awilkins> There was one on the left of mine, between the lines. It seemed to have more data than average - one of the larger capacity ones. Wish I'd thought of snapping it there and then.
<AlanBell> popey: boo
<minarge> boo to you too
<AlanBell> we have a team meeting scheduled for aroundabout nowish
<popey> evening
<popey> oops
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<MartijnVdS> evening popey :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 26th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<dmdrummond> Has anyone had a problem in Natty where when a window should be fullscreen it appears with a gap between the panel at the top about the size of a titlebar, and the mouse doesn't send click events where the mouse is pointing, but offset by the width of a titlebar?  It seems to happen randomly.  I also find some windows trying to appear offscreen.
 * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of gord 
<jibadeeha> dmdrummond, yes this happens to me when fiddling with compiz settings in ccsm
<dmdrummond> jibadeeha: just found a bug in launchpad which sounds similar, bug 772762
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 772762 in unity (Ubuntu) "evolution mail offset when maximizing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772762
 * brobostigon wonders why ##politics-uk isnt buzzing,
<dmdrummond> I love bots
<jibadeeha> thanks dmdrummond
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: because you're alone in the channel? :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: 7 peopleintheir, but i was thinking peoplewould want to talk aboutthings.
<MartijnVdS> Ooh USN-1111-1
<dmdrummond> jibadeeha: added a comment and a screenshot
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: AlanBell czajkowski and anyone else near enough to Farnham: http://digitalsurreymay.eventbrite.com/
<popey> ooo
<jibadeeha> dmdrummond, that is exactly what happens to me when using ccsm ... i have to log out and back in to sort it out .. the only difference is that the top panel goes blank .. thankfully i don't use ccsm frequently
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right. Time for bed said zebedee.
<TheOpenSourcerer> NN all.
<brobostigon> good night TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> I hope YOU ALL voted.
<brobostigon> yes.
<dmdrummond> jibadeeha: usually just unmaximising and remaximising sorts it out for me.  Unity keyboard shortcuts are soooo useful.
<wintellect> does unity support the standard gnome applets? If so, how do I access them?
<DeathSling1> dont know, sorry.
<wintellect> thanks DeathSling
 * hamitron burps
<DeathSling1> unity, is that the gave dev package?
<DeathSling1> game, not gave
<hamitron> has anyone here replaced capacitors on their motherboards that often?
<DeathSling1> never tried. Dont know an awful lot but I would have thought you'd need to be very careful with the heat
<hamitron> yeh, I was just wondering if anyone knew the most popular reasons why they pop to start with
<hamitron> I'm guessing bad PSU or shit caps
<hamitron> poor quality rather
<DeathSling1> possibly heat again.  Servers tend to be very fanned
<DeathSling1> but like i said i dont really know what i'm talking about
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-06
<hamitron> I remember the cpu did get hot when run at full speed
<DeathSling1> i'm trying to figure out how to get vmbuilder to work. I have it working on another machine but this just errors
<hamitron> but it is one of them AthlonXP-m chips, so can get it to stay at 800mhz
<hamitron> :\
<DeathSling1> ?
<DeathSling1> ah yeah, sorry. Brain is fading  ;)
<kirrus> http://www.osnews.com/story/24700/_PSN_Ran_Outdated_Unpatched_Apache_without_Firewall_
<kirrus> Just... no...
<hamitron> so nothing clever, just lazy
<hamitron> :/
 * brobostigon sets up gwibbers dual panes, to show election reuslts, seperatly.
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> when are AV results in?
<exobuzz> tomorrows
<reaper4334> Hi
<dragonkeeper> how do i get a .sh script to call a different .sh script in a different terminal ?
<dragonkeeper> i tried to call the script sudo ./scriptname.sh   but it runs in that terminal ;/
<ging> dragonkeeper: can't you just run it in the background or do you specifically want it to pop up into another terminal?
<dragonkeeper> ging: i want it to pop up another terminal and that new terminal to open a file
<AlanBell> I guess it could run the gnome-terminal command
<AlanBell> but this is a pretty odd thing to want to do
<dragonkeeper> i tried gnome-terminal scriptname.sh   but it just opened a terminal like normal
<AlanBell> gnome-terminal -e find / &
<AlanBell> that will launch a terminal in the background, and list all files on your system in it, then close
<AlanBell> I did find / because a short command like ls means the terminal barely opens before it closes again
<dragonkeeper> so if i do  gnome-terminal -e " then put a command here"  ?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> but like I said, this is an odd request
<AlanBell> what if you want to run the command whilst not running X?
<dragonkeeper> i just like alot of stuff to open at same time and some are scripts so wanted to make one script to boot it all up at same time
<dragonkeeper> that works perfectly
<dragonkeeper> now only if was a way to give script root privileges with out having type a pass
<AlanBell> there is
<AlanBell> setuid
<AlanBell> I have no idea how to use it, I never have
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid
<dragonkeeper> ahh ok ty
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> morning all
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning peeps
<TheOpenSourcerer> Got a meeting on your manor this morning popey
 * popey raises the drawbridge
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> :)
<pipa> Help! How do you create a list of packages that everything else depends on?
<czajkowski> Aloha
 * popey waits for 9am to phone virgin to get his internet back on
<popey> er 8am
<czajkowski> what happened?
<popey> got a new hub
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2092166_election_local_council_results "In Waverley, all opposition [to the Tories] has been virtually wiped out. "
<Pendulum> morning
<czajkowski> yes oddly enough whe I wen to vote yesterday
<czajkowski> there was a local election
<czajkowski> I'd not heard anything of
<czajkowski> back home I'd go 1 2  3
<czajkowski> over here I can only Go X
<czajkowski> very odd
<czajkowski> and I voted on the AV bring ye more in line with common sense voting
<pipa> I'd of voted Schulze method
<popey> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1283756073.png  MUAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH!
<MartijnVdS> popey: New internet connection in your Evil Underground Lair?
<popey> Yes!
<MartijnVdS> too bad about the upload though
<popey> that upload is just perfect for me :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'm getting 100/100
<popey> nice!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - that's fast.
<MartijnVdS> popey: speaking of upload :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame I live nowhere near a cable service
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how they're going to connect the fibre to my appartment
<MartijnVdS> (I'm on the 7th floor)
<popey> dangle a cable from a helicopter
<MartijnVdS> popey: unlikely
<gord> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=566
<gord> ooh what did we say this time
<MooDoo> hello all
<hoover> moning all
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> zoiks
<MooDoo> popey: ?
<popey> see the link TheOpenSourcerer posted
<gord> oh right its matt zimmerman leaving. sad days
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> so true
<czajkowski> the man is a great guy and so approachable
<MooDoo> blimey
<popey> wonder if he's off to Google :)
<MooDoo> hehe
<bigcalm> Morning peeps, good or otherwise
<popey> lo bigcalm
<MooDoo> sometimes it's just time to move on.
<czajkowski> MooDoo: true
<bigcalm> popey: what will you be doing with your new found bandwidth?
<Myrtti> mdz news makes me sad
<Myrtti> moin all
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti happy
<awilkins> Hmmph. Either it's a compression effect or my ISP has upgraded my bandwidth without asking. Bastards.
<czajkowski> I met him in barcelona when I wne to my first uds and sat talking to him, not exactly realising who he actually was.he was very helpful listened and has always been helpful when I asked him to speak at events.
<AlanBell> hello pipa and pippa
<AlanBell> pipa: you mean packages on your system?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: sounds a pleasant chappy.....
<czajkowski> he is
<Myrtti> I love the articles he shares in greader
<popey> bigcalm: right now, I am using debmirror :)
<czajkowski> ohh Bones
<czajkowski> and Big bang theory
<czajkowski> time for some beans on toast, and tea
<czajkowski> :D
<MooDoo> bones.....ftw!
<dwatkins> yeah, Bones rocks, as does Fringe
<MooDoo> yay fringe
<MooDoo> and smallville and eureka
<MooDoo> and ncis
<czajkowski> NCIS LA was damn good yesterday
<czajkowski> there is a mole in NCIS
<czajkowski> wonder wll the director go
<MooDoo> only watched the first few of those, think i need to catch up
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i thought it was jimmy at first but now i'm not so sure
<dwatkins> I used to watch Smallville, it got a bit wierd. Quite like Eureka though.
<czajkowski> noooo has to be someone on the new team
<gord> mmm beans on toast, could go for some of that
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i dunno, they are there only as part of their introduction coz they are the new spin off
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> really
<czajkowski> gibbs really hates them
<MooDoo> czajkowski: well i'm only guessing, but it was mentioned they were showing the new spin off team
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> no likey
<czajkowski> the blonde is annoying
<MooDoo> czajkowski: better not be abi :D
<czajkowski> one of the team is from Numb3rs
<MooDoo> really?
<czajkowski> ducky!
<MooDoo> oh yeah
<MooDoo> no not ducky
<MooDoo> i'm thinking a minor char
<czajkowski> denoza nope not after last nights ep, not jimmy, he wuldnt have the balls to do it, no abi as well,... no... not gibs, so it has to be ducky or his assistant, or the director is out for gibbs
<MooDoo> jimmy is duckys assistant
<czajkowski> oh thinking of ...
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> names..
<MooDoo> czajkowski: glad i'm able to download them from the states :D
<MooDoo> ooo bones ep 21 :D
<czajkowski> TIm McGee
<bigcalm> popey: have VM asked you to max out the connection for hours on end? ;)
<MooDoo> nah
<MooDoo> supernatuaral is another good one.
<wintellect> MOrnin
<MooDoo> o/
<popey> bigcalm: :)
<popey> bigcalm: I have downloaded ~50GB in the last 24 hours or so
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - shiny. 480core ARM Server: http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/calxeda-to-offer-480-core-arm-server-20110314/
<bigcalm> popey: Balls to the fair useage policy!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Laterz all.
<czajkowski> popey: please tell me thats not all natty updates :p
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: toodles
<popey> czajkowski: thats a copy of the entire natty repo, i386 and amd64
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ttfn
<czajkowski> popey: what odd testing are you doing
<popey> wel.
<popey> imagine having a USB stick that boots to either (optionally) the i386 or AMD64 ISO
<popey> you do the install, then point your apt at the usb stick and install anything you want from the repo
<popey> so you can do fully offline installs
<czajkowski> actually funny thing, I've not one USB in the house
 * AlanBell has a USB belonging to czajkowski 
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> you do
<czajkowski> ducky
<AlanBell> quack
<oimon> i have 3 usb sticks in my pocket at all times
<AlanBell> is that a USB stick in your pocket or are you just . . . never mind
 * MooDoo shakes head :D
<bigcalm> Just realised the folly of Radio 4 recording the Friday Night News Quiz on Thursday. As with them speculating over the wedding last week, it'll be speculation over the voting results today
 * Myrtti is watching a show about ospreys in UK, interesting
<oimon> there's been an election?
<oimon> ;)
<bigcalm> Not really that bothered about the local elections, it's the AV result I want to know
<oimon> i can tell you that already
<MooDoo> oimon: ah that explains the extra traffic
<MooDoo> bigcalm: 8pm tonight
<bigcalm> MooDoo: indeed!
<czajkowski> Myrtti: the rugby team ?
<MooDoo> but we all know the answer already :)
<Myrtti> czajkowski: no, the bird
<oimon> i have a new theory. the election result is always NOT what the masses on twitter are proclaiming
<czajkowski> Myrtti: oh right yes
<Myrtti> czajkowski: it's the official bird of these parts of Finland, the town I was born started out as a mill village of the parish called "osprey hill" in English
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ah ok, I just associate it with one of the rugy teams we play
<Myrtti> http://www.natureit.net/kamera/saaksisaatio
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you really are a rugby fan aren't you :D
<czajkowski> again I'm going to point out I'm from Limerick, which is in Munster the home of Irish rugby
<czajkowski> you either follow rugby or GAA
<czajkowski> it's as simple as that
<popey> bbc live news seems screwed today
<danfish> morning - my rugby highlight just pinged
<czajkowski> danfish: go pick another date YOU:RE free so we can go watch a rugby match again
<danfish> czajkowski: world cup soon so plenty of choice :)
<danfish> early matches though, so beer for breakfast
<danfish> BEEEEEEEEEEEEER :D
<MooDoo> :D
 * popey hugs ali1234 
 * popey is riding ali1234's train track
<MartijnVdS> popey: Minecraft?
<czajkowski> danfish: tons of time to find a ub we cna reserve a space !
<popey> ya
<czajkowski> last pub was grand and all but space would be idea
<czajkowski> l
<danfish> czajkowski: plenty on time for theopensourcerer to get a licence to serve booze and set up a pub in his back garden ;)
<gord> gmail takes longer to load than evolution!
<bigcalm> gmail crashes less than evolution!
<gord> and makes firefox throw up an unresponsive script thing. why must all email clients suck? :(
<MartijnVdS> a lot less
<MartijnVdS> gord: It's rule #1 of the internet
<czajkowski> :F
<czajkowski> :D
<MartijnVdS> gord: (from the same list as #34)
<gord> haven't seen evolution crash in a long time
<MartijnVdS> gord: going catatonic == crash
<MartijnVdS> It might not technically be a crash if it stays running in an infinite loop/wait
<MartijnVdS> But it's dead to me :)
<gord> use imap+
<MartijnVdS> gord: Sorry, employer uses Exchange
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<brobostigon> for everyone who wanted to try gnome3, from the gnome3-teams ppa, gnome-session 3.0.1, is inthere, and is fixed, to start other things from gdm, than only gnome-shell.
<popey> still breaks unity though, doesn't it?
<bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2237#comic
<brobostigon> nope, unity started fine.
<JamesTait> Hi hi, happy Friday! :)
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait :)
<brobostigon> vps suggestions?
<popey> bitfolk
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i use memset, people use linode or bitfolk
 * gord sings the i hate google docs song
<brobostigon> thank you chaps,
<gord> its the worst thing in the world
<dogmatic69> gord: it could be worse, you could be singing the i hate m$ office song
<gord> eh at least ms office sort of works, google docs just plain sucks
<brobostigon> bitfolk do debian sid on their vps's as an option, interesting choice.
<popey> brobostigon: they have an irc channel, #bitfolk on irc.lug.org.uk
<Myrtti> the best advice I can give you is "don't use anything free as in gratis"
<popey> drop by and say hi to grifferz
<popey> he can answer your questions
<brobostigon> popey: ah, intersting, will do, thank you.
<Myrtti> my problems with any hosting provider has always started when I've not paid for the service
<Myrtti> and thus can't expect any service
<bigcalm> Yesterday I prompted a client to have 10.04 LTS installed on their new VM with Bytemark. #doingMyBit
<bigcalm> Remind me how to change the default editor for the CLI?
<brobostigon> bitfolk looks like it will will do the job. good price aswell.
<popey> :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: they are very good, i just wanted cpanel on my box
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, ok.
<popey> if you mention my name if/when you sign up, then i get a bonus, which I donate to debian
<brobostigon> ah, thats ok.
<gord> much of a bonus?
<popey> well, I've referred a bunch of people, and the DPL dropped me a mail to say thanks :)
<popey> so probably not huge amounts, but a bit
<brobostigon> and ipv6.
<gord> ah, thats nice
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
<czajkowski> davmor2: pokes
<davmor2> Yay! hugs czajkowski
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you better enough to be poked again?
<davmor2> MooDoo: only on good days
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah!
<davmor2> MooDoo: you need to watch her twitter feed to find out which it is :)
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<czajkowski> davmor2: thanks :)
<MooDoo> heh
<MooDoo> ok
<davmor2> no probs
<JamesTait> Can anyone remember what the query parameter is to tell URL shortening sites to display a "preview" page telling you what URL you're about to visit?
<czajkowski> ivanka: thanks for replying to my mails so fast! clears up my inbox swiftly! :)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: offten adding a + to the end of the url will do that
<bigcalm> I should add that feature to my own URL shortener at some point :S
<JamesTait> bigcalm: That's the one - I just found it on Google, thanks. :)
<bigcalm> Ok
<oimon> at what point did memory management by linux applications become so bad that 4gb isn't enough RAM for some basic apps like email/internet/office?
<dogmatic69> oimon: my machine never makes it past ~2gigs
<oimon> dogmatic69: how often do you reboot?
<dogmatic69> 10:46:31 up 7 days, 22:52,  3 users,  load average: 0.37, 0.33, 0.32
<davmor2> oimon: it is here but then I shut down each night
<dogmatic69> chrome + ff ~50 tabs xchat, netbeans, ~10 terminals connected to 6 servers
<oimon> i have memory probs on most of my apps
<dogmatic69> skype dropbox music etc
<oimon> i'm on lucid
<dogmatic69> 10.10 32bit for me
<oimon> thunderbird/chromium/pidgin/hotot/openoffice/evince - killing my machine - each morning i have a 2gb swap in use and 60-80% RAM used
<davmor2> oimon: thunderbird in lucid had a memory leak, pidgin also iirc,  open office if left open uses more ram as it keeps saving automagically .
<oimon> also hotot and chromium eat RAM
<oimon> it didn't used to be like this
<davmor2> oimon: Banshee is my biggest memory killer
<oimon> i get that too, although disabling useless plugins helps
<reaper4334> Hi
<brobostigon> afternoonings reaper4334
<reaper4334> how is everyone?
<MooDoo> good here
<brobostigon> **** really, not so hot.
<Adriannom> hm...  what would my BASE_SERVER_VHOST be? :s
<Adriannom> the full hostname of the vps maybe?
<czajkowski> ok something is up with vlc
<czajkowski> it plays most of my movies
<czajkowski> the stops
<czajkowski> but continues juming but no sound
<czajkowski> *jumping
<czajkowski> so have to hard reboot then as all machine locks up
<oimon> i had a similar problem 2 days ago on my desktop pc - machine hard froze during vlc playback, needed to give it the finger
<oimon> http://www.talktalk.co.uk/ << LOL
<wintellect> Anyone tried the new nVidia driver which was released on 20/4 ? (270.x.x)
<popey> !info nvidia-current
<lubotu3> nvidia-current (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers): NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library. In component restricted, is optional. Version 260.19.06-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 25690 kB, installed size 76364 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<popey> ooo
<popey> wintellect: I haven't, is it any good?
<popey> wintellect: seems I'm using it on natty
<popey> its rubbish
<wintellect> popey: lubotu3 reported the 260.x.x version
<wintellect> the latest is 270.x.x - released about 15 days ago or so
<popey> i have 270 here
<davmor2> wintellect: 270.41.06-0ubuntu1
<davmor2> popey: so how is your 30 meg connection and do you get limited to 5 meg if you download more iso in peak hours?
<DeathSling> anyone here work with vmbuilder?
<popey> davmor2: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284032579.png
<kazade> envy
<kazade> I'm on ADSL about a million miles from an exchange :/
<popey> heh
<kazade> carrier pigeon is probably quicker
 * popey ponders slapping a 3rd 2TB disk in his server and migrate from RAID1 to RAID5
 * kazade ponders piggybacking popey's wifi
<kazade> heh, not worth the travel though :p
<kazade> right, off to see the Colonel about some fried chicken
<oimon> mmmmmm
<dogmatic69> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284037138.png
<dogmatic69> not bad :)
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: gimme a few minutes ;)
<dogmatic69> lol
<davmor2> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284039857.png
<bigcalm> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284040221.png
<AlanBell> gah, I have to install flash on this server to beat you
<popey> haha
<dogmatic69> popey's in front, im 2nd :P
<popey> oh, it's like that is it
<davmor2> meh I can't wait till june 6 at 3pm when my reliability issue disappear supposedly
<dogmatic69> davmor2: bigcalm: your 19.99 is no match for my supreme 20.05
<reaper4334> my download speed's depressing compared to most of those http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284041377.png
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> dogmatic69: that's a good speed for me I'll do it again this afernoon and watch it drop into the pits of hell
<dogmatic69> hehe
<Apacheuk> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1283793563.png he he :)
<dogmatic69> davmor2: mine will go up when every stops leaching it with work stuff
<bigcalm> Yep, VirginMedia do that to us
<bigcalm> Apacheuk: in a datacentre?
<dogmatic69> Apacheuk: bt? why so fast
<Apacheuk> nope, at home.... btinfinity
<reaper4334> wow!
<dogmatic69> :/
 * dogmatic69 wants bt  â
<bigcalm> BT Infinity won't be coming here as it's already a cabeled area
<Apacheuk> love the upload, makes backing up a lot quicker
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1284044303.png
<dogmatic69> bah
 * bigcalm kippers AlanBell
<popey> heh
<exobuzz> there is bt infinity here, but when they launched they had 300gb/month ,limits combined upstream/down which wouldnt be enough. however i believe they just removed that
<exobuzz> was going to wait to see what the 100mbit virgin offer looked like
<Apacheuk> AlanBell: I think you win!
<exobuzz> (mostly concerned about decent upstream)
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: where you get that?
<bigcalm> Denmark by the looks of it
<AlanBell> one of our servers
<AlanBell> germany
 * dogmatic69 wants 70Mb/s upload
<dogmatic69> oh
<dogmatic69> :|
<bigcalm> Doh, I always forget .de isn't denmark
<exobuzz> 100mbit would suit me fine
<AlanBell> it is a core i7 980 extreme running KVM, that is one of the VMs running Natty
<exobuzz> both ways
<AlanBell> it is in fact mumble.libertus.co.uk
<dogmatic69> 404
<AlanBell> yeah, not much of a web server there
<dogmatic69> ah
<AlanBell> not a 404 though, no web server on port 80
<dogmatic69> chrome complaining ~= 404 :P
<AlanBell> (there is interesting stuff on port 3000 and port 59125 for the curious)
<andylockran> heya all
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<reaper4334> AlanBell: that speech synthesis client is pretty cool
<AlanBell> reaper4334: yeah, and I got it working with speech dispatcher so you can integrate it with the desktop
<AlanBell> works with orca
<andylockran> popey: you well?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: that screams for a minecraft server
<AlanBell> I want to pop something together that listens on dbus for libnotify stuff and throws it at speech dispatcher
<AlanBell> so all the little notify popups get read out loud
<reaper4334> that'd be pretty cool
<reaper4334> useful too
<popey> yup yup
<andylockran> that makes me happy :)
<X3N> AlanBell: doesn't that happen already?
<X3N> with the accessibility stuff
<AlanBell> X3N: if you are running orca it can read notifications
<AlanBell> but that needs at-spi on by default which it isn't
<AlanBell> and lots of people would not want to run orca all the time
<X3N> oh right, this isn't for accessibility reasons?
<AlanBell> not directly
<AlanBell> but I have a general objective of getting accessibility tools in more mainstream use
<AlanBell> to get more eyeballs on them and more developers
<X3N> it should be pretty quick to write anyway :)
<AlanBell> yes
<X3N> you could even do it in a bash script heh
<AlanBell> really?
<AlanBell> how would you listen for notifications via a script?
<AlanBell> speaking is easy, just spd-say "hello world"
<exobuzz> some accessibility tools are incredibly useful. like simulate second click - for example on touchscreens
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> and an on screen keyboard with a touch screen
<X3N> something like, dbus-monitor "type='signal',sender='org.freedesktop.Notifications',interface='org.freedesktop.Notification'"
<AlanBell> ooooh
<X3N> though, i'm not sure if there is actually a signal for notifications
<exobuzz> AlanBell, the best onscreenkeyboard ive used so far is "florence"
<X3N> you can use d-feet to inspect what you have in dbus
<exobuzz> certainly its way more usable than the ubuntu default
<exobuzz> not tried the new meego one though
<AlanBell> there is this https://launchpad.net/libnotify-speech-dispatcher
<AlanBell> but a simpler bash or python based thing would be cool
<X3N> yeah
<AlanBell> exobuzz: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
<AlanBell> I did some themeing of onboard which should get into natty at some point
<exobuzz> the theming looks much better. but the keyboard doesnt type as well as florence. in terms of responsiveness and speed
<popey> AlanBell: that guide needs updating
<popey> there is a new version of the virtualbox extensions, the ones in the repo are outdated
<X3N> hmm that's not very nice, the libnotify-speech-dispatcher has to eves drop on messages going to the notify daemon
<exobuzz> AlanBell, http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/images/ubuntulinux3.png try florence out . would be nice to have it as the default in ubuntu
<popey> yeah, i like florence
<oimon> what's the smiley key?
<exobuzz> windows key i guess
<popey> 'super' key
<oimon> sorry but it looks naff
<exobuzz> yeh sorry super key
<popey> what does?
<exobuzz> its skinnable/themable..
<exobuzz> this is a simple transparent look
<oimon> the smiley key..the rest is good
<popey> hah
<popey> you might want to actually consider using it
<exobuzz> yeh
<exobuzz> heh
<popey> which is far more important than the look of one single key
<exobuzz> it's packaged for natty so easy to install now
<popey> oh nice
<bigcalm> Wah!
<oimon> i'm not suggesting i wouldn't not use it because of the naff smiley key
<X3N> did anyone see media-explorer released? would be interested in any comments/feedback
<oimon> how many negatives in that sentence?
<bigcalm> Absolute80s player cut off half way through David Bowie's Lets Dance :(
<oimon> too many :P the smiley key wouldn't stop me using it
<oimon> i wonder how much truth there is in the story that apple might soon start moving to ARM laptops?
<exobuzz> oimon, better for you ? http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=217749&ssid=77232
<exobuzz> :)
<bigcalm> Selecting in the source view of FireFox 4 is broken on Windows. Is this also true to Linux users? (I don't have a linux desktop to hand)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can view source if that is what you mean
<bigcalm> davmor2: can you select anything though?
<bigcalm> With ctal +a
<bigcalm> Or the edit menu
<bigcalm> Using the mouse still works for me
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeap
<davmor2> bigcalm: with mouse and ctrl+a
<Azelphur> yay, my inspiron duo came naked no OS :D
<MartijnVdS> hmm naked computers
<bigcalm> davmor2: Good, just my machine or windows then :)
<oimon> Azelphur: and no windows tax paid?
<Azelphur> oimon: yep.
<oimon> nice
<Azelphur> he just knows to send me osless machines now haha
<oimon> i'm about to buy 35 PCs and will save > Â£1k in win tax
<Azelphur> he knows I'm a linux nut and that it's entirely pointless :D
<Azelphur> haha
<oimon> i have to jump through hoops tho
<Azelphur> oimon: me and my brother always buy from this one place up in London, they hook us up with cheap prices and do things for us out of the way :D
<oimon> not dell direct?
<Azelphur> oimon: nah, he's a dell outlet guy
<Azelphur> he gets all the refurbs in and fixes em up
<oimon> ok - i have bought direct from dell outlet for home PCs before
<oimon> you get great deals..surprised to see a duo already in there!
<Azelphur> omg downloading ubuntu natty iso at 1.3MB/sec :D
<Azelphur> fastest by far my internets ever gone
<Azelphur> oimon: yea, he went out of the way to get some for me :p
<Azelphur> me, my brother and his girlfriend combined have probably spent 10k+ there over the years though
<Azelphur> so we get special treatment xD
<oimon> i'd be interested to hear your experiences on the duo
<oimon> about to buy a thinkpad tablet for a user, but cost 3x greater
<Azelphur> oimon: will do :p
 * awilkins is supposed to get 10Mb/s but it tends to tail off at peak times now... fricking 'torrenters  *slap*
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Don't blame torrenters, blame buffer bloat:
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bufferbloat.net
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Bufferbloat affects latency, no? Don't see how any amount of extra ping time cuts my bandwidth down to a fifth of what it should be.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: bandwidth != speed
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: bandwidth = speed * latency
 * awilkins is reading the "parking lot" metaphor
<andylockran> ;)
<X3N> arguing for patches upstream is more work than writing the actual code :\
 * awilkins can relate to that
<Laney> do enough non-controversial changes
<Laney> get commit access
<Laney> commit your dubious patch
<Laney> win!
<X3N> haha
<MartijnVdS> unless Linus merges
<MartijnVdS> then you get a flamewar
<awilkins> Sounds like a great arcade game
<awilkins> "Linus Merges! FIGHT!"
<X3N> haha, then you have to fight using git commands
<awilkins> "Linus rewrites your history! You cease to exist!"
<MartijnVdS> "You rebase. Linus gets angry."
<Azelphur> "Linus firewalls you, it's super effective!"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: killfiles
<MartijnVdS> mailing lists don't care about firewalls :)
<Azelphur> :p
<awilkins> <Scary boss music>   Microsoft files a patent suit!
<Azelphur> oh noes!
<MartijnVdS> Google countersues
<Azelphur> FSF Lawyer, I CHOOSE YOU!
<Azelphur> oimon: I'm starting to think Ubuntu on the inspiron duo is gonna be fun :)
<Azelphur> Ubuntu natty beta I had downloaded, compiz crashes and the installer doesn't load
<oimon> that's normal though Azelphur
<Azelphur> Downloaded alternate and it bleets about the installer encountering an error when I try and install ubuntu desktop \o/
<oimon> compiz was unstable until about beta2
<Azelphur> fair enough :p
<Azelphur> managed to get through the alternate install :p
<Azelphur> I don't seem to be getting a lot in the way of...anything though
<gord> google docs is the only office software i have ever used where i have to take breaks from typing to let the text catch up...
<Azelphur> yea, black screen lol
<gord> kinda weird typing on my netbook from a table. feel like i need to be laying out on my bed with my netbook in some weird position
<oimon> gord: microsoft office 365 is bound to be worse
<awilkins> gord, Yeah, even my old Epson PX-8 could keep up with my typing (Z80 processor)
<awilkins> It incidentally had the nicest laptop keyboard I've ever used. A shame the Nicad battery pack developed seriously heavy memory.
<awilkins> I used to connect it to my Amiga 500 via a null modem cable and type on it rather than use the Amiga keyboard
<Azelphur> attempt 2 on the install, I'll let it have networking this time and make sure to get openssh installed :p
<oimon> using the release version this time?
<Azelphur> oimon: I used a release version last time and got black screen
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> and failed to install ubuntu-desktop
<awilkins> You could make a zsync up-to-date version of the alternate CD with all the patches in
<Azelphur> if I can just get it installed and get ssh I can run an upgrade
<awilkins> Or jidgo or whatever works
<Azelphur> hopefully that'll make everything work
<awilkins> Yes, I always like that about Gentoo - always had ssh on by default
<Azelphur> I have the alternate install so I can install it by default
<oimon> thunderbird is becoming like outlook...fortunately we don't run it as root like windows users: http://lwn.net/Articles/441650/
 * popey gives AlanBell a http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/mark/errord/050611/bitterremarks.JPG
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> that would be a thread 31 entries deep I think
<oimon> "Prince Harry 'warned off Pippa Middleton' "  ..because that wouldn't be at all weird..not at all...
<dogmatic69> :D
<pippa> he's not my type anyway ;o)
<popey> lol
<oimon> you mean he's a windows user?
<popey> he looks more like a xbox user
<AlanBell> does that mean someone warned him off, or he warned Pippa off?
<Azelphur> oimon: yay, got ssh on the black screen :D
<Azelphur> installing ubuntu-desktop now xD
<oimon> a friend of friend of a facebook friend of an acquaintance said something to a newspaper so they could print pictures of the bridesmaids bum
<oimon> btw how can i explain this? we had 2 power cuts this morning affecting the whole area. one of the user's mac mini's still has a 25 day uptime :S
<oimon> no UPS
<Azelphur> how long was the cuts?
<oimon> quick
<oimon> but all our machines went down
<oimon> the non UPS'd ones
<Azelphur> oimon: sometimes some stuff can go off but some stuff can survive through it
<oimon> 200-odd machines, all went down except for 4 mac mini's
<Azelphur> I remember once I had a power cut and all my monitors went off but my PC went off
<Azelphur> sorry my PC stayed on*
<X3N> oimon: maybe there is enough residual power in the mac mini's power block to keep it running
<oimon> seems to be the case
<X3N> oimon: where abouts were the power cuts?
<oimon> ah, it has a laptop type power block?
<oimon> E1
<X3N> yeah
<oimon> i was beginning to suspect voodo
<oimon> o
<brobostigon> how much data would everyone say, would be used, running just irssi, on something like a vps, monthly?
<X3N> oimon: not far from me, i'm just outside aldgate :)
<popey> very little
<popey> less than any package you could buy
<oimon> x3n..only 1/2 to 1 mile away then
<brobostigon> popey: umm, little  vague, but a good anwser, thank you.
<X3N> no power cuts here anyway
<popey> brobostigon: its text, it takes next to no bandwidth at all
<gord> brobostigon, look at how big your log files are :)
<brobostigon> popey: very true, yes.
<brobostigon> gord: good thinking, :)
<brobostigon> 4.1 MB, inthree days. roughly, soyes,not much.
<popey> indeed
<Azelphur> hmm
<Azelphur> The disc drive for /dev/mapper/cryptswap1 is not ready yet or not present
<Azelphur> oh, now that error disappeared and it booted \o/
<Azelphur> woa, black screen of death
 * MartijnVdS pokes at unity2d some more
<oimon> my desktop PC isn't showing usb sticks that aren't inserted at boot :(
<Azelphur> I just got a real, legit BSoD
<Azelphur> that never happens :o
<Azelphur> with a kernel backtrace and everything
<MartijnVdS> Mine shows ISO images I've made USB sticks out of
<MartijnVdS> and they're unremoveable
<oimon> Azelphur: nvidia drivers?
<Azelphur> oimon: nope, on my netbook
<Azelphur> and first boot with GUI so stock everything
<oimon> is it a nvidia card tho?
<Azelphur> no, intel
<oimon> hmmm comments never get to the bottom of my problem http://tips4linux.com/usb-devices-not-mounting-in-lucid-heres-a-fix/
<Azelphur> got it booted into a GUI though, getting on wifi and doing an upgrade :P
<Azelphur> touch pad is insanely sensative
<Azelphur> I like it :)
<Azelphur> touch screen doesn't work ootb
<oimon> yeah i was expecting that
<oimon> Azelphur: there's info at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1658635 relating to meerkat
<Azelphur> fun fun xD
<Azelphur> aww, no multi touch
<oimon> http://plippo.de/touchscreen-tools might be helpful for you
<Azelphur> oimon: fun
<Azelphur> the fix on that thread doesn't seem to work in 11.04 :(
<oimon> the pain of being an early adopter means no multi touch yet
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> early adopting is fun though
<oimon> Azelphur: you become the guy that writes the help wiki then :P
<Azelphur> knowing my luck :p
<X3N> that's a bit sexist
<X3N> s/a bit//
<Azelphur> epic win, plugging or unplugging my inspiron duo on natty = kernel panic
<Azelphur> how do I get debug info for a kernel panic so I can file a bug ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: best way? Serial line
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or a screenshot (camera?)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the data goes off the top of the screen
<Azelphur> but I can take a photo I guess
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: even if you set a very huge resolution?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (assuming you have a KMS-capable graphics chip)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could try this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Netconsole
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've never seen a kernel panic before, but I assume this is one? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110506_173809.jpg
<Azelphur> as soon as I unplug or replug X dies and that appears
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that might be enough, but you might need more
<MartijnVdS> also.. turn off camera flash :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: funny enough, the one with camera flash came out better than the other 4 photos I took of it
<Azelphur> the no flash ones came out blurry
<MartijnVdS> tripod \o/
<MartijnVdS> (or open a curtain)
<Azelphur> opening a curtain gets reflections
<Azelphur> lol
 * Azelphur works on netconsole
<popey> blurry is because you're too close or not still
<popey> pull back until its not blurry then zoom in
<MartijnVdS> not still, I guess -- less light = longer shutter time
<Azelphur> popey: I think the camera has autofocus, it just can't autofocus in the dark
<Azelphur> but yea I can do netconsole in theory so that'll get me better info
<popey> so make it not dark?
<popey> its 17:52 not 01:00
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> pfft
<andylockran> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Bye all - Off to cricket with the kids then pub.
<brobostigon> bye TheOpenSourcerer o/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: FATAL: Error inserting netconsole (/lib/modules/2.6.38-8-generic/kernel/drivers/net/netconsole.ko): Unknown error 524
<Azelphur> yay.
<DJones> I wonder whether this will change the direction of Canonical/Ubuntu in any way http://blog.canonical.com/?p=566
<popey> Azelphur: http://prefetch.net/blog/index.php/2009/08/05/using-the-linux-netconsole-service-to-send-console-messages-to-remote-hosts/
<Azelphur> popey: I noticed that, however I also noticed that my ethernet card doesn't support polling :(
<popey> set the kernel boot option to have a very high res kernel terminal resolution, and take a pic ture of it?
<Azelphur> popey: good idea, how do I increase the terminal resolution?
<Azelphur> I assume it's a grub command line option
<popey> does the kernel barf even if you're in recovery mode?
<popey> i.e. with no gui running
<popey> single user mode
<davmor2> gord: you need to fix unity so the interface shows up in share my desktop via empathy, ie remote desktop viewer can see it ;)
<Azelphur> popey: I can try it, it probably will though, it happens when I change power states
<popey> davmor2: thats almost certainly a compiz issue
<popey> Azelphur: I'd be interested to know
<Azelphur> it's completely reproducable
<Azelphur> ok :)
<popey> anyway, boot to recovery mode
<davmor2> popey: hence gord needs to fix it :D
<popey> and there's an option VGA=ask
<popey> it prompts with a list of resolutions
<popey> maybe :)
<Azelphur> firing up in recovery mode now :p
<Azelphur> popey: yes, still panics in recovery
<popey> ok, good
<Azelphur> also, I noticed the text scrolling, there's quite a large chunk of it
<MartijnVdS> "good"
<Azelphur> I'm not sure if increasing resolution will help, but I'll try :p
<popey> well that means it's not something like gnome-power-manager triggering it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: higher resolution = more fits on screen (= maybe entire panic)
<popey> exactly :)
<MartijnVdS> it looks like it's either a buggy acpi table, or a bug in the acpi handler in the kernel
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you on the latest BIOS for your hardware?
<popey> hehe, bet you have to install windows to install BIOS :)
<popey> Azelphur: what exact device model number is this?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it's a new laptop, dunno if it's the latest
<MartijnVdS> popey: My BIOS can read new BIOS images from USB sticks itself :)
<popey> check their website?
<popey> yeah, my desktop can too
<popey> really nice feature
<Azelphur> popey: I believe there's only one model of inspiron duo, lemme check the underside :p
<popey> also, you could use upstream kernel
<popey> see if its an ubuntu patch causing it
<Azelphur> yea, just says inspiron duo on the bottom
<Azelphur> VGA=ask didn't prompt me
<Azelphur> popey: could do, but first I need to get it into a bug report :)
<popey> uhm, no, you dont
<Azelphur> why not? if it's a bug it needs to be reported/fixed?
<Azelphur> Ubuntu doesn't update the kernels so it'd need to be cherry picked
<Azelphur> either that or everyone can have crashing duo's till october :p
<popey> I'm suggesting using upstream kernel
<popey> to see if that works
<popey> if it does then thats an ubuntu issue
<popey> if it doesn't work then its a kernel issue
<Azelphur> oh, the same kernel version?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> the kernel ppa has packages for it
<Azelphur> could do, but I still wanna get the bug report up
<Azelphur> because which ever it is it's beyond me to fix :p
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<popey> yeah, I'm trying to help you get the best bug report
<Azelphur> just add that ppa and upgrade?
<popey> and file it in the right place
<popey> no
<popey> get the debs and manually install them
<jacobw> this could well be a stupid question..
<Azelphur> ok ty :D
<popey> what kernel are you on now?
<jacobw> but can i use a modem in a laptop to hold an adsl connection?
<popey> i.e. what does uname -a return?
<popey> jacobw: no
<jacobw> i thought not :)
<popey> jacobw: well, you can buy an internal adsl modem
<Azelphur> just booting it up again :p
<popey> jacobw: but not a traditional modem
<popey> Azelphur: grub menu is sufficient
<bigcalm> I'm not sure my dell laptop has a rj11 port at all
<popey> my mbp has no modem
<Azelphur> popey: 2.6.38-8-generic
<davmor2> bigcalm: my hp doesn't
<popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.38.5-natty/
<popey> Azelphur: is it 64-bit or 32 bit?
<Azelphur> 64
<popey> so grab the two amd64 debs and the middle "all" one
<bigcalm> Hayley's dell laptop has one though
<Azelphur> popey: ok
<popey> put them all in a folder and 'sudo dpkg -i *.deb'
<bigcalm> I think it might be time to reconfigure my office this weekend. It's sad that I'm excited by this
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Life, don't talk to me about life"
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Might dial 150
 * bigcalm ponders
<Azelphur> popey: done, reboot and unplug? :p
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Customer support?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: indeed. I want 30mb cable
 * bigcalm wants what popey has
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Now available at popey's
 * bigcalm throws a wee tantrum
<X3N> it's pub o'clock
<Azelphur> My ADSL was doing 1.3MB/sec today
<Azelphur> at peak time :)
<MartijnVdS> I'm getting 1.6 steady here
<Azelphur> popey: yep, still happens on mainline
<popey> ok, cool
<popey> upstream kernel bug then
 * bigcalm eyes VM
<bigcalm> You're in a Virgin Media fibre optic cable area, so you can enjoy:
<bigcalm> Broadband: Superfast, reliable broadband up to 100Mb
<Azelphur> popey: fun, what next?
<bigcalm> Do I dare?
<bigcalm> 35 quid a month
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: How many pints is that?
<popey> Azelphur: get the screen res higher and take photos
<Azelphur> popey: how do I get the res higher?
<popey> Azelphur: dunno, i would end up googling
<popey> Azelphur: what video card does it contain?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: if I were to have something enjoyable, 35 pints http://www.goodfoodoutlet.com/shepherd-neame-spitfire-premium-kentish-ale-500ml-cheapest-in-sainsbury-39-s-today-on-offer-p77204
<MartijnVdS> It's probably as high as it gets
<Azelphur> I have a feeling that increasing the res won't catch the whole thing anyway, It scrolls a bit when showing it and it's already at a pretty decent res
<popey> sure
<popey> but more is better
<Azelphur> popey: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation N10 Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)
<bigcalm> popey: by going to 30mb, have you restarted your 12 month rolling contract?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Good to know
<bigcalm> Not that we want to move
<popey> Azelphur: I would start building up some debug info about the hardware
<popey> to package it up ready to send to the kernel devs
<popey> Azelphur: did you give me the model number?
<Azelphur> lspci -vnnn ? :p
<Azelphur> popey: there's no visible model number, it's just an inspiron duo
<popey> ah ok
<Azelphur> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-duo/pd?ST=inspiron%20duo&dgc=ST&cid=41141&lid=1069630&acd=1240474352205656
<Azelphur> this thing :p
<popey> ta
<Azelphur> only I didn't pay anywhere near that for it xD
<bigcalm> Oh, that thing
<bigcalm> Looks nice. How heavy does the tablet feel?
<Azelphur> bigcalm: it's ok :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: that's cause the one you had, had a broken touch screen :P
<Azelphur> davmor2: lol, that would be funny :P
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/40792/whats-the-best-way-to-report-a-kernel-panic-bug
<popey> lets see if that works :)
 * Azelphur upvotes
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild#Reporting Bugs Upstream
<popey> there you go
<popey> thats some information
<popey> i dont think you should file in launchpad, but upstream in kernel bug tracker
<MartijnVdS> still link it on launchpad though
<bigcalm> Oo, Discovery and Alibi are both in the M tv package. Now I'm not so worried about losing Mates Rates
<MartijnVdS> as it's present in Ubuntu, and you want it fixed for oneiric
<bigcalm> Lets see what's offered on FreeSat
<MartijnVdS> (maybe even in natty)
<Azelphur> popey: agree'd :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Freesat has lots :)
 * MartijnVdS loves your freesat ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Alibi isn't on freesat :(
<DJones> bigcalm: What is broadcast on Alibi? I've heard of it & flicked past it, but never watched it
<bigcalm> Castle
<bigcalm> That's the only show we watch on Alibi
<DJones> Can't say I've heard of that, just looking it up
<DJones> Looks interesting
<davmor2> Castle, Murdock Mystries, Murder She Wrote, Diagnosis Murder and others
<bigcalm> Ah crap, I was looking in the wrong column. Alibi is not in the M tv package. That starts in L
<bigcalm> But Discovery is in M
 * bigcalm ho-hums
<Azelphur> popey: uhh, it just stopped happening lol
<bigcalm> We have all of these channels and watch 3 or 4 of them :( http://shop.virginmedia.com/digital-tv/channels.html
<Azelphur> I now can't reproduce it
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> crazyness
<popey> fun too
<popey> what did the laptop come pre-installed with?
<bigcalm> Azelphur: fresh re-install of natty
<Azelphur> all I did was change the resolution in grub, I wonder what happens if I change it back xD
<popey> is the battery full?
<popey> maybe thats why its not triggering any more
<Azelphur> nope, it's not, maybe.
<Azelphur> triggered it again without the grub resolution change
<popey> there are some odd bugs that only occur when the battery is in certain conditions
<Azelphur> lemme just test this a few times to make sure I'm not going insane re changing the grub resolution makes it not happen xD
<Azelphur> I'll let it charge all the way up too
<Hazmaster> \o
<popey> lo Hazmaster
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: playing around with multiple clients again? :)
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: heh, sort of :)
<Hazmaster> popey: lo :)
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: I'm currently running gnome3 LiveCD
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: and? like it?
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: I'm not sure... :S
<Cepheus> Hazmaster: how is GNOME shell compared to Unity?
<brobostigon> evening Hazmaster :)
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: Well personally gnome3 has done a lot better than Unity, but there's some things I think Unity just gets right that gnome3 doesn't - its quite frustrating actually :(
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: evening :)
<Cepheus> I like the minimality of unity, but the mac os x style context menus are an annoyance... as is the complete lack of customisation
<popey> Cepheus: that will come
<popey> its a first release really
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: that's just it, that's one thing that frustrates me about both... and I think Gnome3 is worse for that, its almost impossible to theme it your way
<Hazmaster> I do however love the interactive notifications! Fantastic idea!! (Gnome3)
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: you can use standard gtk themes, to theme gnome3/gnome-shell.
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: oh?
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: I've tried looking for something similar to "Change theme" though, and couldn't find one
<Cepheus> popey: that's the thing, it feels a little rushed out
<Cepheus> like they were under pressure to divulge from the linux distro crown
<Cepheus> *crowd
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: I wouldn't say that, Gnome3 wasn't frozen yet when 11.04 was in development... so it would have been hard for them to stick with Gnome in all fairness
<popey> 11.10 will rock, no doubt
<popey> especially as it will have the nice consistency of having Unity 3D and Unity 2D on the CD
<Hazmaster> popey: I have no doubt about that, but I really hope that they take the best ideas currently in use, and scrap away the useless stuff
<Cepheus> I ran into  the desktop cube bug with unity while messing around with cssm
<Cepheus> *ccsm
<Cepheus> that'll teach me =p
<popey> heh
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: let me find it, it is a special tool.
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: ah cool
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: I might have to install gnome-shell to my 11.04 install, I feel the gnome3 distro (which is technically fedora?) is missing a lot of things
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: like apt?
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: exactly ;)
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: prefer apt to yum
<Cepheus> I've heard rumours that Attachemate layed off the mono team?
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: I wonder why :S
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: thanks :)
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: you're welcome, :)
<Cepheus> Hazmaster: I imagine Mono is not very profitable.
<Hazmaster> now the question is... how hard is it going to be to install gnome3 to natty
<popey> !gnome3
<lubotu3> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
<AlanBell> I wouldn't
<popey> neither would I
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> wait a month and install oneiric
<brobostigon> i have it working successfully here, without issue now.
<popey> and unity 3d?
<Hazmaster> AlanBell: You mean oneiric alpha?
<brobostigon> last problemwas the gnome-session issue,whichwasixed this morning.
<brobostigon> popey: yes.
<AlanBell> or pre-alpha
<MartijnVdS> oneiric-development
<brobostigon> popey: as i said earlier, i tried it, and unity 3d started without complaint.
<Hazmaster> i thought you could have multiple desktop environments loaded with much conflict :s shows how much i know
<popey> Hazmaster: you can usually
<AlanBell> yeah, but gnome3 isn't just a shell
<popey> Hazmaster: but this is a ppa with gnome 3 libraries in it, which conflicted with the gnome 2 libs that unity is built on
<Cepheus> I imagine GNOME 3 messes with a lot of GNOME 2/Unity stuff like GConf?
<popey> brobostigon: if you run sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^  does it want to install lots of new stuff?
<Hazmaster> s/with/without/*
<AlanBell> gnome3 is not the same thing as gnome shell
<brobostigon> popey:  iwill try it, i have food coming, let me try after,
<Hazmaster> AlanBell: Isn't gnome-shell just the bit that goes on top of gnome3?
<Hazmaster> or can gnome-shell just be placed on top of anything?
<Cepheus> oh yeah, biggest pet peeve with unity: no application categories
<Hazmaster> anyone get chance to check out my first stop-motion video of minecraft btw :)
<Cepheus> that is all.
<brobostigon> popey:   branding-ubuntu libreoffice-style-human linux-headers-2.6.38-9-generic linux-headers-generic
<Hazmaster> I plan to do more if people are interested in seeing more
<brobostigon> popey: those are the new packages it tried to install.
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: my biggest pet peeve with both is the fact that its more of a chore to access your own folders >_<
<popey> Cepheus: yes there are
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: dont you just open nautilus like normal ?
<popey> Cepheus: right click applications in the launcher
<Hazmaster> i always click "Places->Home" is how i normally start it
<popey> Super+f
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: i have just stuck nautilus in the launcher, seemed simplest.
<popey> its already in the launcher
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: I guess ^_^
<popey> its the first thing, so Super+1
<Cepheus> popey: oh zing
<brobostigon> popey: it wasnt there as standard, i had to add it.
<popey> it is
<Cepheus> not very intuitive though
<popey> it might not have been if you upgraded from alpha/beta times
<brobostigon> popey: this is in gnome-shell, it wasnt there, when i first started it.
<popey> ah, sorry, thought you were talking about unity
<brobostigon> popey: i upgraded at last alpha.
<popey> I haven't even tried gnome 3
<Hazmaster> popey: ah that might make more sense, but if you think about it - most people will probably be upgrading then installing from fresh
<brobostigon> no worries.
<popey> probably wont bother
<brobostigon> popey: it isnt for everyone, and if it isnt for you, that is ok.
<popey> its not that
<Hazmaster> popey: I'd recommend at least trying the LiveCD of Gnome3 :)
<popey> i just have no need to use another desktop
<popey> i already run 4 different desktop environments, one more wont benefit me much
<brobostigon> popey: i had no choice, unity just simply didnt work for me, day to day, so this was simply one of the only  other options.
<brobostigon> popey: 4 other ones, may i askwhich ?please.
<popey> windows xp, osx, gnome classic, unity
<popey> well, five then
<popey> windows xp, osx, gnome classic, unity 3d, unity 2d
<brobostigon> wow. all on one singlemachine?
<brobostigon> gnome2 ?
<brobostigon> umm,
<brobostigon> scrub that.
<Hazmaster> oooooo interactive alt+tab!
<Hazmaster> like it!
<brobostigon> on thatone, i have haiku-os, and then ubuntu with gnome3 + gnome-shell unity-3d and unity-2d
<popey> no, not one single machine
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: hve you noticed how the alt-tab sorts by workspace.
<brobostigon> ok.
<popey> there are four machines on my desk
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> laptop running unity 3d, laptop running xp, laptop running osx, desktop running 10.04 LTS so gnome 2
<brobostigon> wow.
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: I did!
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: it makes alot sense, especially as i sort by workspace,
<Hazmaster> it does
<Hazmaster> i was meaning the interactive alt+tab in the sense that it groups things and you can use the arrow keys, I reall like that :)
<Hazmaster> really*
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: like when an app has more thanone window, and being able to choose the different windows from within the alt-tab.
<Hazmaster> the only thing i find wierd is the fact that you can't minizise things
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: yeah that :)
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: thats pretty cool
<Hazmaster> :3
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: as i have said before, why have a minmise, when you order your windows properly, and you have nothing to minimise to?
<Hazmaster> although, i keep expecting my laptop to make random pop noises when I press alt+tab though - I think its just because it looks very similar to the shape and colours of that of OSX
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: this is true
<brobostigon> ok, i havent tried mac os x in years, so i cant compare.
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: didn't understand what you meant when you were talking about it a few months back
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: it makes  sense when you think about it.
<Hazmaster> well yeah :)
<jacobw> i like gnome2, its stable :|
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: but i think, as you said, you need to try it, for it to make more sense.
<Hazmaster> I wonder if you can force each application to open up in its own workspace... that would be pretty neat if you could :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: i have gnome3 very stable and welltested up to now.
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: no idea, interesting idea. yes.
<Hazmaster> i must say, i'm so glad someone has finally realise that the desktop needs be nothing more than a pretty picture though
<brobostigon> i have found*
<SimonDBull> Hi
<Seeker`> hi
<sdh> hello
<SimonDBull> the software sources could not be located from the upgrade (using upgrade manager) to Ubuntu 11.04...could you help please, i know it's a tad vauge
<sdh> on natty, my /var/log/messages is empty - is this normal?
<sdh> it seems to be the case
<sdh> but would be nice to confirm
<Azelphur> popey: the askubuntu question got an answer :)
<sdh> got it
<Hazmaster> :( something broke Kega :(
<Hazmaster> its running hellish :(
<MartijnVdS> Kega?
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: yeah, its a multi-sega emu
<Hazmaster> (doesn't want to go out and drag out the megadrive, easier just to emulate it)
<jacobw> SimonDBull: pastebin the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list
<jacobw> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Azelphur> popey: also it does happen at full charge, however I am starting to notice it's intermittent, sometimes it'll be ok, the majory of times it won't be.
<MartijnVdS> woo acpi
<Cepheus> I can't find my mega drive anymore
<Cepheus> i think it was disposed of
<SimonDBull> jacobw: Thanks very much - i shall do that :)
<Hazmaster> Cepheus: that sucks
<Hazmaster> i wonder what broke kega to be so slow :/
<Cepheus> Hazmaster: I know. it makes me sad :(
<Hazmaster> and QtSixA is being even funnier to connect my controller up :/
<Cepheus> i haven't used bluetooth on linux since the days of KDE 3.5, what's it like these days? pretty much the same?
<MartijnVdS> bluetooth on ubuntu works out of the box
<MartijnVdS> bluetooth audio works great
<AlanBell> anyone like pulseaudio issues? http://paste.ubuntu.com/604222/
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Bluetooth still seems a bit flakey, Mine is only enabled whenever I do a warm reboot and so far, I've not been able to pair any device to my laptop
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Mine toggles on/off with the switch on my laptop
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I don't seem to be able to detect any bl;uetooth devices and other devices don't find the laptop
<Hazmaster> DJones: how odd, I've used bluetooth on both my laptop (built-in) and on my desktop (via usb dongle) and both seem to work great - most of the time. The PS3 controller seems to be a bit flakey, but i think thats more to do with the fact that it uses its own stacking methods to do the handshakes and stuff.
<DJones> happening
<DJones> Hazmaster: It works via Win 7, but can't get anything in Natty, service bluetooth status says "bluetooth is running" just trying to troubleshoot/identify whats happening
<Hazmaster> right, think I've messed around in this LiveCD enough for tonight :)
<Hazmaster> back to my main machine!
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> hmm, why do I get the option to suspend, but not shutdown...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hit alt- ,it was one of those weird design decisions.
<shauno> try holding alt
<HazRPG> yeah, I was trying shift and ctrl... didn't think to try alt
<shauno> I've a funny feeling that's another macism badly copied :p
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> why what does the mac do?
<HazRPG> personally I think it's a windows vista thing they've copied there sadly
<HazRPG> default install of windows vista had the power icon do a suspect instead of a shutdown
<HazRPG> however, at least vista had an arrow you could click on to pull up other options
<HazRPG> and change the setting altogether
<hamitron> !radeon
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<shauno> osx will change menu items slightly based on modifier keys.  that's the only place I'd seen it done previously
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You know that "Treble Spankers - 'Araban'" video you linked me to... the arabic on the cover found on that video says "Smirah" which is odd, I originally thought it said "Samirah" which is a girls name... however it wouldn't surprise me if smirah is a girls name too
<j0nr> hey folks
<j0nr> have a quick problem (hopefully)
<j0nr> I just installed LAMP server... went to localhost and got the default It Works! page... but when I put a php file in there and try to access it, my browser just tries to download the file rather the running it...
<shauno> you have libapache2-mod-php5 installed?
<czajkowski> cannot beleieve AV vote was rejected
<shauno> czajkowski: common sense has never won against FUD.  mud slinging is far too effective in british politics
<j0nr> shauno: yup
<gord> the snickers in my mini bar mocks me.
<shauno> j0nr: try a2enmod php5 - it'll either activate the module, or tell you if it already is
<j0nr> tells me it is already activated shauno
<shauno> (should require sudo I think; I leave that bit to common sense :)
<shauno> well, there go the easy answers :/
<j0nr> thats what I thought :)
<HazRPG> czajkowski: well that's just ruined my night, bah
<HazRPG> czajkowski: really had hopes up that it would get passed through :(
<Cepheus> HazRPG: it was patently obvious it wouldn't go through, really
<shauno> common sense never does.  ironically, the local elect in ramsbottom was decided by pulling straws.  because there's nothing wrong with the existing system or anything :)
<shauno> j0nr: are you using the php from userdirs?  (eg, localhost/~bob/)
<popey> shauno: dont you have to restart apache?
<popey> after installing that
<HazRPG> sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart :)
<shauno> can't hurt; never sure what a2enmod actually does over symlinking it yourself
<j0nr> shauno: sorted now thanks to http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/PHPDownload
<shauno> hm .. a2enmod should take care of that, it's already in the .conf.  can't argue with results tho :)
<gord> so i have to get a new laptop, mine is a little screwed. anyone have any recommendations for laptops with long battery life's + okayish cpus?
<popey> think pad x series
<hamitron> I'd prob go for one of the new generation core-i cpu laptops
<hamitron> do radeon cards with hypermemory work ok?
 * hamitron 's last ATI card had 4Mb memory
<hamitron> so kinda lost with ATI ;)
<gord> i refuse to use ati on linux :)
<hamitron> it won't be for gaming
<hamitron> and nvidia have annoyed me
<ali1234> you should get one of those new "3D" CPUs
<ali1234> they are supposed to be a whole 38% more efficient
<gord> i didn't think those were released
<ali1234> they're not
<hamitron> what about this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/199415
<ali1234> and 38% is still rubbish anyway
<hamitron> only uses 40W
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> well that's just messed up
<HazRPG> "sudo /etc/init.d/sixad status"; * sixad is not running; "sudo /etc/init.d/sixad start"; * Starting sixad; sixad started, press the PS button now;
<HazRPG> but it is now sat running in the terminal, surely this should just run as a service :S
<gord> ThinkPad X220 looks good
<gord> 14 hours battery life
<ali1234> why do you need a daemon to connect to a user input device?
<gord> wonder how cheep i can get it
<ali1234> X220
<ali1234> is a nice computer
<ali1234> like a netbook except it's got a real CPU
<gord> eh its a little big to be a netbook
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well, everyone..
<HazRPG> ooo, has there been an icon update for maverick?
<HazRPG> (just noticed the icon during update has changed)
<damian> evening all!
<damian> anyone experience problems with Flash on x64 ubuntu?  display just overlaps, doesn't draw properly etc
<AlanBell> evening
<AlanBell> I have not seen such issues running flash on 64bit in a VM
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening earthlings
<AlanBell> I am about to nuke my 32bit laptop and install Natty 64bit
<AlanBell> evening TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - scary stuff AlanBell
<damian> AlanBell: always messes up with blogtv when I'm broadcasting and ustream watching the bottom just doesn't render correctly.
<AlanBell> doing a 175GB backup first
 * TheOpenSourcerer is just back from a tour of local public hostelries.
<damian> I <3 my backup drive :)
<HazRPG> hmm, seems I have a lot to learn still
<HazRPG> trying to work out why sixad won't run as a proper daemon
<HazRPG> thought it might be in the /etc/init.d/sixad or /usr/bin/sixad scripts
<HazRPG> but the bash code seems fine
<HazRPG> seems the problem must be in the actual daemon itself /usr/sbin/sixad-bin
<damian> or maybe a permission?
<HazRPG> nah, the whole thing runs fine and dandy, the thing that annoys me about it is the fact that once you issue "sudo /etc/init.d/sixad start" and it starts up... it sits and waits for a controller to be connected... and once it does, it doesn't just run off in the background, it sits and waits there (controller runs fine, until you CTRL+C though)
<ali1234> i've been having a lot of problems with flash since upgrading to natty
<HazRPG> which to me is a badly constructed daemon
<HazRPG> ali1234: sup?
<ali1234> well i get white rectangles instead of what flash was supposed to render
<ali1234> not like it's not rendering anything at all though
<ali1234> it's just small bits
<ali1234> also it never happens on youtube
<ali1234> which is the only flash i haven't blocked
<HazRPG> random :S
<TheOpenSourcerer> How cool is this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/05/a_15_computer_to_inspire_young.html
<ali1234> yeah your problem with sixad is because it isn't coded properly
<ali1234> it doesn't even need to wait until the controller connects it should fork into background immediately
<HazRPG> well yeah exactly that's my point, its odd
<ali1234> you would be surprised how many programmers have no idea at all what they are doing
<ali1234> actually maybe you wouldn't
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-07
<HazRPG> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> It runs Ubuntu apprently
<ali1234> i want to know how you plug in a keyboard when it clearly has a type-A plug
<ali1234> even so
<ali1234> arm, usb, hdmi
<ali1234> sounds like what i've been looking for for quite some time
<ali1234> i wonder how much proprietary drivers you need to get the HDMI to work
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently it runs ubuntu 9.04 with iceweasle
<AlanBell> which is a bit odd
<HazRPG> interesting ...
<damian> ali1234: the white rectangles, thats what I have!
<damian> also perfect on youtube, but bad everywhere else.  Also youtube uploads are alot slower on ubuntu than on windows with the same video file
<ali1234> actually
<ali1234> i think it might be happening when a page has more than one flash element in it
<ali1234> damian: what graphics card do you have and are you using 11.04?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh. There's wet stuff falling from the sky. WTF is that?
<damian> 11.04 and nvidia geforce 210
<ali1234> bug 743951
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 743951 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "part of (flash or moving gif) windows will see on white in other windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743951
<ali1234> sounds like our bug
<damian> Yes!
<damian> seems to work better in Chrome although Chrome has the space bar issue
<ali1234> bug 755698 also
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 755698 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "I'm having graphical problems using the flash plugin in natty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/755698
<ali1234> chrome has it's own different built in flash plugin
<damian> ok
<ali1234> bug 761074
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 761074 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "flashplugin-nonfree draws white rectangles" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/761074
<ali1234> that one has a video
<ali1234> identical to what i see
<damian> Yes, thats what I get also
<ali1234> bug 776839
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 776839 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "Flash Player with rendering problems on Firefox 4 in Ubuntu 64 bits" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776839
<ali1234> gee, someone should start marking duplicates :)
<damian> 755698 seems to indicate its adobe's problem
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it probably is
<damian> well we shall sit tight and await a update soon :)
<damian> I'm off to bed.  Night all ! and thanks ali1234  feels better not to be the only one!
<HazRPG> I'm tempted to fork QtSixA and see if I can fix it...
<HazRPG> branch* even
<shauno> what you doing?
<HazRPG> shauno: sixad doesn't function as a proper daemon
<hamitron> nn
<HazRPG> bah, can't be bothered with this tonight... might try and do some pixel art instead
<HazRPG> actually... my sister made a good point earlier, wonder how hard it would be to use my scanner over the network (its an all-in-one printer)
<shauno> ugh.  this is no sane time to wake up
<HazRPG> shauno: ^_^
<HazRPG> shauno: dude, you messed with "sane" as a package before?
<HazRPG> for some reason same seems to want to install gimp :S
<HazRPG> sane**
<shauno> nope.  I'm not compatible with paper :)
<shauno> it looks like it doesn't want gimp, just libgimp?
<HazRPG> nope, it wants the whole thing it seems T_T
<shauno> fun
<HazRPG> odd thing however, is that it scans file without installing by issuing the command: "sudo scanimage >/home/user/image.pnm"
<HazRPG> fine* not file xD
<HazRPG> shauno: have a look, I just cp'd it to my tmp folder http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/image.pnm
<HazRPG> also, its not printing in colour, its just black and white for some reason :S
<shauno> I don't see a lot on that scan; intentional?
<HazRPG> although I find it odd that a scanner would work on -server without having to do anything :S
<shauno> why wouldn't server want scanners?
<HazRPG> shauno: it's a colour swatch lol, you'll noticed it has dotted lines between where the colours are meant to be
<HazRPG> I don't know, just seems odd for a server really
<HazRPG> (well except home servers)
<shauno> seems like a sensible addition to print servers :)
<HazRPG> I guess
<HazRPG> now to just work out how to get this shared properly ...
<shauno> (less common now that printers are adding themselves onto the network, but printer servers have been a staple of so/ho for a long time)
<HazRPG> true
<shauno> ours is disgusting at work.  it deposits the scans into a lotus db.  I prefer to pretend lotus doesn't exist :/
<HazRPG> holy cow people still use lotus o.O
<HazRPG> (last time I used lotus was back in win 3.1 days)
<shauno> yarp :(
<shauno> lotus notes seems pretty entrenched.  the rest of smartsuite pretty much died tho
<HazRPG> heh typical
<HazRPG> shauno: bah, this is a bit much isn't it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/604315/
<shauno> hah
<HazRPG> shauno: see what I mean :S
<HazRPG> also, seems I need it even though I can scan if I want to set this up as a scan server
<shauno> I'd look to see if sane-utils has what you need
<shauno> "This package includes the command line frontend scanimage, the saned server and the sane-find-scanner utility, along with their documentation."
<shauno> I'd assume you just want saned & libsane, rather than the frontends package
<HazRPG> bah, going to reboot and see what happens
<HazRPG> well yeah exactly :)
<HazRPG> might try that after it boots back up
<shauno> or cheat and use tasksel to just pick the print-server task
<shauno> (tasksel --test install print-server, and again without --test if it looks sensible)
<shauno> anyhow, gotta head to work.  stay sane inside insanity :)
<HazRPG> bah, well reading this was useless: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo
<shauno> Feels wrong being this light out. Usually light=late
<HazRPG> heh know the feeling :P
<HazRPG> shauno: apparently sane-utils is already installed it seems
<HazRPG> however I don't have a "scanner" group though, which I find odd
<shauno> So figure out how saned works :)
<HazRPG> lol this is what I'm trying to do ^_^
<HazRPG> o.o
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<HazRPG> scanners suck :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Oh? I plugged mine in and simple-scan picked it up and worked immediately
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nah on my server :P
<HazRPG> "sudo scanimage -L" picks up my scanner just fine... and can use said command to scan
<HazRPG> however I can't get saned to do the same :S
<HazRPG> (user called: saned)
<shauno> this sounds like permissions rather than a sane issue?
<HazRPG> well it is, but I can't work it out
<HazRPG> I've tried putting saned into group: lp, saned, scanner (had to create this group)
<HazRPG> and no joys
<shauno> have you figured out what it's using in /dev ?
<HazRPG> nope
<HazRPG> everything is either root, tty, dialout, disk, cdrom
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check with ACLs
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: install the "acl" package, then "getfacl" on the device
<MartijnVdS> (for example, check /dev/snd/* on your desktop -- they're root:audio but have the current desktop user added by ACL)
<MartijnVdS> (can of worms, anyone?)
<HazRPG> how do I even work out which one of these is my scanner (looks a massive list of /dev)
<HazRPG> its obv one of the usb ones though - that much I know
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Check with scanimage what the device name is
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mine says: device `plustek:libusb:002:003' is a Canon CanoScan LiDE25 flatbed scanner
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: so I check /dev/bus/usb/002/003
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and it's root:root, with me added by ACL
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: probably done by consolekit + udev working together
<HazRPG> I get "root:root" essentially
<HazRPG> and that's it
<shauno> getfacl doesn't show anything else?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I think you might need a custom udev rule to make it owned by user saned ?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: check /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules for examples, then create your own in /etc/udev/rules.d
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604330/
<MartijnVdS> (never edit in /lib or it be overwritten on upgrade)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that means "there's no ACL here"
<HazRPG> well my printer is already in /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's an integrated printer/scanner combination?
<HazRPG> yup
<MartijnVdS> y u no buy networked device? :)
<HazRPG> EPSON DX5050
<HazRPG> I no buy this one, mum bought me it as a moving-in present about 2-3 years ago
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ScanningHowTo#Permission issues ?
<HazRPG> I followed that earlier lol
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<HazRPG> I had to create scanner
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you su -s /bin/bash -u saned -
<HazRPG> even added saned to lp
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: does sane-find-scanner work? :)
<HazRPG> yup that works
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: and scanimage -L ?
<HazRPG> however scanimage -L still shows up as being "No scanners were identified..."
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what happens if you scanimage -d <string obtained from scanimage -L as root>
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it should tell you what the problem is
<MartijnVdS> oh maybe stop saned first (it might be hogging the device)
<HazRPG> scanimage: open of device epson2:libusb:001:002 failed: Access to resource has been denied
<MartijnVdS> At least it's a start :)
<MartijnVdS> what does "id" say?
<HazRPG> uid=105(saned) gid=113(saned) groups=7(lp),113(saned),116(admin)
<HazRPG> like I said, I shoved it into several places to see what would happen
<MartijnVdS> and ls -l /dev/bus /dev/bus/usb /dev/bus/usb/001 /dev/bus/usb/001/002
<HazRPG> although 116 should say scanner not admin
<HazRPG> which might be the problem
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you manually added that to passwd/group then?
<HazRPG> hold on
<MartijnVdS> adduser username groupname \o/
<HazRPG> yeah, that didn't work cos scanner didn't actually exist and was too lazy to remember the command to create it - so created it manually in /etc/group lol
<HazRPG> just changed it to 117
<HazRPG> hang on
<MartijnVdS> don't do that.. use adduser/addgroup
<MartijnVdS> maybe --system
<HazRPG> uid=105(saned) gid=113(saned) groups=7(lp),113(saned),117(scanner)
<HazRPG> \o/
<MartijnVdS> ok.. now try scanimage -L
<HazRPG> I did, and nothing :'(
<HazRPG> (10.04 server btw)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG:can you pastebin the ls -l /dev/bus /dev/bus/usb /dev/bus/usb/001 /dev/bus/usb/001/002
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the output of*
<MartijnVdS> (done as root)
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604334/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the device is root:root, not root"scanner
<MartijnVdS> so your udev rule doesn't work, or it wasn't triggered
<HazRPG> Hmm
<MartijnVdS> (your printer rule probably works for /dev/lp*?)
<HazRPG> I don't have a /dev/lp* anything
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Whichever device is your printer :)
<HazRPG> well in rules: /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules
<HazRPG> I have
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604335/
<HazRPG> which is my scanner
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: run "udevadm monitor", then unplug + back in
<HazRPG> just did lsusb and checked the codes, and they do match
<HazRPG> wow that did a lot of things >_<
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604336/
<HazRPG> its got a built-in card reader too btw
<HazRPG> (just looking at the output)
<MartijnVdS> that's the scsi bit :)
<HazRPG> lol yeah I know ^_^
<MartijnVdS> and you have an "usb/lp0" that's the printer part
<shauno> uhoh .. found out I'm getting feedback on my job application this morning.  this could be interesting.
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> shauno: good luck
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you need to make sure the udev rule ran
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: try finding a udev-rules debug guide :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: or double-check the device file now -- it might have been confused by the broken "scanner" group you had before
<MartijnVdS> (device might have changed after unplug -- re-check its location with scanimage -L)
<HazRPG> nope saned still can't see it
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what if you manually chgrp scanner the device?
<HazRPG> should I make my own /etc/udev/rules.d ?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not yet, first check if this is really the problem
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you manually chgrp it, and saned works, create the /etc/udev/rules.d/99hazmaster.rules to fix it :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also, file a bug about it
<HazRPG> chgrp what?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /dev/bus/usb/whatever/it/is/now
<HazRPG> so: chgrp scanner /dev/bus/usb/001/003
<MartijnVdS> if that's where it is now, yes
<MartijnVdS> (as I said, it might have moved when you unplugged and replugged)
<HazRPG> lol yeah that is what lsusb said
<HazRPG> 001/003
<HazRPG> bah, okay now saned can see it woo \o/
<HazRPG> although I figured that would work
<HazRPG> now to make a rule I guess...
<HazRPG> do I literally just put: ATTRS{idVendor}=="04b8", ATTRS{idProduct}=="082b", ENV{libsane_matched}="yes"
<HazRPG> and does the file have to start with 99
<MartijnVdS> no, it does have to start with 2 digits though, and be >30
<MartijnVdS> >40
<MartijnVdS> (after libsane)
<HazRPG> ah
<MartijnVdS> Lots of "udev rules" HOWTOs on the webs
 * MartijnVdS off doing some much-needed vacuuming
<jibadeeha> time for my first coffee of the day me thinks
<shauno> after a week off work, I'm not sure what I should do first.  minecraft or movies :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Minecraft movies?
<shauno> even bettererer.  james bond movies :)
<HazRPG> ^_^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, this is ironic, but does this look sane? (Its a copy of the original, however I've added ", GROUP="scanner" and seems to work (tried unplugging it and plugging it back in)
<HazRPG> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604343/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good find, file a bug :)
<HazRPG> I wasn't sure if the start and end parts were needed - all I was sure about was line 6 which starts "ATTRS..."
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ^_^
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Was skimming through the udev docs and just after it mentions stuff about KERNEL etc it said GROUP... and instantly took my interest lol
<HazRPG> although not sure where to file this under
<HazRPG> sane?
<HazRPG> udev?
<HazRPG> general 10.04 bug ?
<shauno> looks like it'd be libsane
<HazRPG> (one thing I hate about filing bugs... never knowing where to put it)
<HazRPG> shauno: thanks :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Also, much thanks for helping fault find :0
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Just file a bug on libsane (whichever package /lib/udev/rules.d/40libsane.rules is in)
<HazRPG> :)*
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that the "setfacl" at the bottom doesn't seem to work
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> how do I burn a .iso to a CD from the command line?
<shauno> believe wodim is cdrecord's modern equivalent
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I've got a script somewhere I made to do that
<HazRPG> AlanBell: but yeah, shauno is right its wodim - I use: wodim dev=/dev/scd0 -v -data cd_image.iso
<HazRPG> woot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/778896
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 778896 in sane-backends (Ubuntu) "Epson DX-5050 setfacl not working properly for saned" [Undecided,New]
<HazRPG> I swear I can never do enough on launchpad to keep any karma at all it seems
<HazRPG> think I've wrote that bug report alright?
<HazRPG> think that's the first proper bug report I've actually had to hunt for
<HazRPG> (or rather hunt the package for even)
<AlanBell> thanks HazRPG
<HazRPG> AlanBell: no problem
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: file more bugs :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't come across bugs very often :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just wodim cd_image.iso works if you only have one burner
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I have two ^_^
<HazRPG> I also use -v cos I like to see what's happening :P
<HazRPG> the only reason I use wodim usually though, is for writing several data tracks though
<MartijnVdS> Ponder.. http://www.bol.com/nl/p/elektronica/motorola-xoom-wifi/9005000011298863/index.html
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: shiny! Although I think "touchpads" are pointless though lol
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'll probably change my mind should I ever own one
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't know if I want it :)
<MartijnVdS> it's a lot of money for "maybe"
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> bah
<HazRPG> seems part two of my epic adventure isn't coming along as planned
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG IN SPAAAACE ?
<MartijnVdS> time to raid a supermarket.
<HazRPG> does /etc/inetd.conf still exist in 10.04.2 :S
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: if you have inetd installed
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Most people don't have it though.. just run the daemon :)
<HazRPG> I just have
<MartijnVdS> or install xinetd, or micro-inetd
<HazRPG> ooo wait
<HazRPG> I heard the scanner do something
<MartijnVdS> rinetd rlinetd
<HazRPG> woo \o/
<HazRPG> we has scanning capabilities xD;;;
<HazRPG> *jumps around, while bouncing off the walls!*
<MartijnVdS> (blue gel?)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might as well be xD
<HazRPG> please say my sis left herself logged in *slides chair over to her PC*
<MartijnVdS> is there a sane driver for windows?
<HazRPG> ooo yay ;D
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: errr... *don't know*
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: There's no windows in the household no more, all got scrapped when I finally got ubuntu-server running
<HazRPG> the only system actually before I did that, that still had windows was my PC... all the rest had been converted about a year ago
<HazRPG> going to draw a picture to scan, so that I can scan it on my sister's machine and leave it running for when she's next on it to show I finally got the scanner going
<AndroUser> Hello folks
<AndroUser> Trying to get usb tethering with htc Desire working on 11.04. Connects but no Internet
<AndroUser> Or any way to install php5-gd with no network? I have network on my phone, downloaded php5 - gd deb but depends on phpapi-20060613+lfs
<AndroUser> Can't find a deb for that
<shauno> MartijnVdS: apparently the windows version is only as a front-end to a unix-hosted server
<HazRPG> shauno: makes sense really
<HazRPG> its twain that windows uses iirc
<HazRPG> or at least it did back when I had a parallel port scanner
<shauno> I think it's WIA now
<dragonkeeper> anyone used gnome 3 yet ?
<MartijnVdS> dragonkeeper: brobostigon has, but he's not here atm
<shauno> I tried it for an evening, but not much more than that; haven't sorted out my wireless drivers yet
<dragonkeeper> when you click on a windows does the  files edit view  menus go to the top taskbar like unity does ?
<shauno> nope
<dragonkeeper> :) cool  ill try it then
<shauno> I found it interesting, and worth playing with; but! ..
<dragonkeeper> but unity wont work again
<shauno> there's no sane / supported downgrade path from the PPAs, so make sure you trust your backups
<shauno> (eg, bring your own Plan B, because they don't have one)
<dragonkeeper> ahh everything is stored on slave drives (incl saved config files and passwords  so backups are not an issue
<shauno> just checkin :)
<Psychobudgie> I'm using gnome 3 and gnome-desktop here
<Psychobudgie> have been for 3 weeks now
<Psychobudgie> prefer it greatly to unity
<Psychobudgie> the whole 'unity won't work again' thing, I viewed as a positive
<dragonkeeper> i prefer no gui to unity lol
<popey> brobostigon said thats been fixed
<shauno> I won't deny that myself.  I just think if they're going to make potentially one-way changes, it's fair to make them aware of that first
<Psychobudgie> I agree
<Psychobudgie> people should be aware of the consequences of what they install via ppa
 * dutchie wonders how much space he will need for a debian chroot
<dragonkeeper> will i need to reboot after or just restart session ?
<Psychobudgie> reboot
<Psychobudgie> also once you are happy it is all working, you may wish to uninstall unity completely
<dragonkeeper> yes i would   atm i only use gnome classic
<Psychobudgie> especially as it's the only way of effectively removing the unity scrollbars
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: uhrm. no.
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, uhrm. yes.
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: just removing the overlay-scrollbar + related packages worked for me
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: not all of unity
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, didn't here
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, others have had the same problem
<dragonkeeper> is the unity scroll bars the  orange strips that when highlighted  brings a slide bar up ?
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: without liboverlay-scrollbar it can't draw those new-fangled scrollbars...
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, the only thing that worked was completely removing the unity package
<MartijnVdS> just like it can't show global menus without appmenu-gtk
<MartijnVdS> (remove package -> WIN!)
<popey> and appmenu-qt :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: yes, and that.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I heard mucking about in /etc/X11/Xsession.d works as well
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I don't know why, but I can assure you that despite removing the scrollbar package in the beta working fine, in the final release it did not work
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: Well, it works for me :)
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I had to remove the unity package to get it to go
<Psychobudgie> splitting hairs anyway
<Psychobudgie> it's awful no matter how you remove it
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: setting the LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 environment variable (in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ somewhere) should be enough
<shauno> nuking the site from orbit should be sufficient
<MartijnVdS> shauno: as always
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, again, that worked in the beta for me, but not with a clean install of the final release
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that, or the "Alderaan method"
<popey> wonder how many distros have chosen to go with GNOME Shell
<MartijnVdS> popey: Fedora. Aaand.. Fedora.
<shauno> I wonder how many distros have simply decided it's too early to chose?
<shauno> if I was $random_distro, right now I'd be maintaining the status quo whilst waiting for the dust to settle everywhere else.  then emulate the survivors
<popey> http://vimeo.com/13797705
<popey> wow
<popey> look at the size of the top of that gedit window
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Why emulate if you can innovate? :)
<popey> thats a massive waste of space
<MartijnVdS> eek
<MartijnVdS> same with the nautilus window
<popey> you could fit 6-8 lines of text in that
<shauno> MartijnVdS: when innovate means 'emulate osx badly'?  :p
<popey> thats insane
<MartijnVdS> popey: Next thing they'll implement a "Ribbon"-like interface
<popey> :)
<Psychobudgie> it's gnome-desktop on a netbook
<MartijnVdS> and become even more unusable
<popey> that doesnt look like a netbook resolution to me.
<MartijnVdS> 1920x1200x10" 8-)
<popey> heh
 * popey gets a microscope
<Psychobudgie> popey, you are aware that you can actually turn that toolbar off ?
<dragonkeeper> hmm everytime i sudo apt-get install gnome-shell  it just gives me a window sayinbg system detected a problem    do you want to report the problem now   cancel or report options ...   thought i got away from these error reports when i kicked windows to the curb
<Psychobudgie> popey, like most things there's an option for that
<shauno> I don't get it.  window chrome + menubar + toolbar + tabbar has been pretty normal in most mdi for a while
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sure, but the trend is to have less chrome
<MartijnVdS> and less menubar
<MartijnVdS> and less toolbar
<Psychobudgie> shauno, yeah it has, but popey is using dapper
<popey> i am?
<Psychobudgie> see
<MartijnVdS> Dapper.. the first LTS to go out of support
<Psychobudgie> I miss Dapper
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: get a vm :)
<Psychobudgie> heh
<shauno> dapper went out of support about 2 weeks after  Ifound my disks for it.  typical.
 * popey digs out his warty cd
<popey> cds
<MartijnVdS> shauno: It'll go out of support next month.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (server bits)
<shauno> I had those, but they didn't make the move back to europe with me
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah back when the Live CD and install CD were different :)
<popey> yeah
<Psychobudgie> sniff
<MartijnVdS> also, before proper hardware management
<Psychobudgie> Unity was but a twinkle in satan's eye
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: you're calling sabdfl satan now?
<shauno> but they'd already poached jdub & ruined my debian+garnome setup
<dragonkeeper> i keep getting this error when trying to install  dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes standard_3.0.0-2~natty1_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/HighContrastInverse/index.theme', which is also in package gnome-accessibility-themes 3.0.0-0ubuntu1~build2 dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) Errors were encountered while processing: /
<dragonkeeper> var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes-standard_3.0.0-2~natty1_amd64.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<MartijnVdS> ooh http://ubuntu.ecchi.ca/wallpapers/
<Psychobudgie> you need to remove the gnome-accessibility-themes before installing
<shauno> heh, with a special entry for the naked people debacle.  nice :)
<Psychobudgie> it's on the ppa thread on the forums I seem to remember
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, do that and it should work hunky dory
<AlanBell> popey: did you mention the other day that the .iso downloads now go to somewhere else? a CDN?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Hmm naked people :)
<AlanBell> I think that has broken the zsync downloads
<dragonkeeper> well it wont install or uninstall anything   it just keeps asking me to  sudo apt-get -f install  to correct the errors  in with i get the error previously posted
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1742343&highlight=gnome+ppa
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, follow that
<dragonkeeper> cant
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, Issues with strange themes, go to that bit first then do the install
<popey> AlanBell: yeah, the 11.04 isos do
<popey> AlanBell: you can see that by wgetting one
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/604363/ AlanBell
<dragonkeeper> phychobudgie  huh  no  it wont install anything now  it wants to install gnomes-themes-standard  before it will do anything else and that gets errors on install
<shauno> tried apt-get -f install ?
<dragonkeeper> yup and i get and error
<dragonkeeper> an*
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, I had that problem during the beta, trying to recall how I fixed it
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --configure -a?
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, the answer is in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10669295
<MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge offending-package
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, I just can't remember where
<Psychobudgie> dragonkeeper, sudo dpkg -i --force-all /var/cache/apt/archives/gnome-themes-standard_3.0.0-1~~build1_amd64.deb
<Psychobudgie> pretty sure that's how I got round it
<Psychobudgie> thanks MartijnVdS for the memory jog
<dragonkeeper> yup that worked
<Psychobudgie> now, follow that first link starting with the themes bit, and then the install and you should be fine
<AlanBell> thanks popey
<popey> np
<AlanBell> should the amd64+mac disk be just as good for people who don't have a mac?
<dragonkeeper> reboot
<shauno> AlanBell: as far as I can tell, they won't notice a difference if their machine doesn't use efi/uefi at all
<shauno> the +mac bit comes in if you try to boot with efi, but do so in ways that don't quite match up with the uefi spec
<popey> AlanBell: no
<AlanBell> bother
<AlanBell> with bittorrent can you start with nearly the right file and get the rest like you can with zsync?
<dutchie> i believe so
<popey> really?
<dutchie> well bittorrent does chunking anyway, no?
<popey> surely it's going to re-get the whole thing
<gord> depends how much of a change it is
<AlanBell> it seems to be re-getting the whole thing
<popey> given no two iso images are going to be much the same
<AlanBell> well amd64+mac is 99.3% similar to amd64
<gord> if something is added to the start and pushed further down, then that screws up all the blocks so you'll get almost everything
<AlanBell> according to zsync
<popey> AlanBell: measured how?
<AlanBell> but zsync then fails
<AlanBell> zsync http://releases.ubuntu.com/natty/ubuntu-11.04-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync
<AlanBell> try that
<dragonkeeper> ok this looks messed up now o.O
<popey> yeah, fails here too AlanBell
<AlanBell> reads the zsync then fails to start the download?
<AlanBell> I *think* it is because of the CDN redirect
<dragonkeeper> this has the unity feel ;/
<popey> AlanBell: debian bug 444159
<lubotu3> Debian bug 444159 in zsync "zsync does not handle HTTP redirects" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/444159
<popey> bug 661308
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 661308 in zsync (Ubuntu) "zsync fails with "aborted" when target file is redirected" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661308
<dragonkeeper> ok how do i uninstall unity completely ?
<popey> AlanBell: fixed in zsync 0.6.2?
<popey> i have 0.6.1 on my server
<popey> and 0.6.1 in natty
<AlanBell> I found the bytemark mirror
<AlanBell> not broken there
<AlanBell> so I am sorted, where do I report the problem?
<popey> well, mirrors wont be doing 302
<popey> there is already a bug for it bug 661308
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 661308 in zsync (Ubuntu) "zsync fails with "aborted" when target file is redirected" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661308
<popey> request an SRU for it?
<AlanBell> fair enough, but how do I report that releases.ubuntu.com would be well advised not to do a 302?
<popey> i disagree with that
<AlanBell> or change the zsync files
<AlanBell> the zsync files have a relative URL in them
<popey> its a bug in zsync not the website
<AlanBell> that could pont to a non-302 file
<popey> heh, nice
<popey> it could but then you're not going to be using the cdn
<AlanBell> it is a bug in zsync, true enough
<popey> and thus place more strain on the canonical servers
<AlanBell> doesn't matter for zsync
<popey> (I realise almost nobody uses zsync)
 * AlanBell is indeed little more than a rounding error
<popey> :)
<popey> it will break testdrive though
<popey> which uses zsync
<popey> I'd try to get an sru for zsync
<AlanBell> oh it is broken in natty too, certainly sru for that then
<popey> and lts
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> ok, CD downloaded and burned, reboot time
<AlanBell> see you in 64 bits o/
<brobostigon> o/
<dragonkeeper> ok i sorted gnome 3 out  just a slight graphical issue now
<brobostigon> dragonkeeper: what is it?
<dragonkeeper> dots at bottom of my main desktop where the notification bar is    icons dont show up properly in the  menu  and colour dots with black backgrounds behind sum text and buttons
<brobostigon> dragonkeeper: i have seen that phenomina, its when simply the icons for certain things arent available, that explainwhy no icons but textshows up in the notiifications.
<dragonkeeper> it does it with the activity menu button as well
<dragonkeeper> now my main screen has just gone black ;/
<brobostigon> dragonkeeper: do you mean where the desktop used to be?
<AlanBell> Bug #774349
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 774349 in Ubuntu "Natty 11.04 64bit Live CD won't boot " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774349
<dragonkeeper> i mean  i have 2 monitors 1st monitors gone all black and i can talk to you on 2nd
<dragonkeeper> all reboot see if i can get it back
<brobostigon> dragonkeeper: ok, i have never tried gnome-shell with multi-monitors, so, umm, sorry.
<AlanBell> Bug 754130
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 754130 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "amd64 debian-installer, natty from 04/05 fails " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754130
<AlanBell> that is really annoying
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> so the 32 bit iso works, the amd64 and amd64+mac isos don't work
<AlanBell> (I thought at first it was because I picked the +mac one)
<DragonKeeper> hmm now the taskbar at top has all lines through it o.O and the icons replaced by orange boxes
<AlanBell> not sure what to do now :(
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: there is no taskbar, atthe top.
<DragonKeeper> well i have one :S
<livingdaylight> running chrome first time in Unity. There is no menu bar at the top, like with some other apps, such as FF?
<shauno> chrome doesn't use a menubar.  everything's done from the couple of icons top-right
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: do you mean the bar,with the clock, and the logout etc menu, and the activities button?
<DragonKeeper> yes
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: yes, you confused me alittle with taskbar, as gnome-shell doesnt have a taskbar to listtasks inthe traditional way.
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: can i suggest, k, so you are getting assentially graphical artifacts?
<livingdaylight> shauno, true... just wondered; had thought I heard that chrome was doing something specific for ubuntu in mind. Must have been something else
<livingdaylight> is chromium now the ruler of them all?
<DragonKeeper> well atm the dots have cleared up and replaced by a gradient black shading   the icons show up as normal  its just the top bar thats having issues  its got green and purple lines with orange boxes where icons supposed to be and the activity button is only just readable through the amount of white dots on the button
<livingdaylight> saveonlaptops.co.uk has some great deals
<livingdaylight> The lenovo thinkpad edge 11-15 are beautiful, but don't come with a mic jack?
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: i am just trying to think, who you could go and chatwith, who will know more.
<DragonKeeper> laptops are just portable space heaters
<shauno> boy do I love my spaceheater
<DragonKeeper> lol i prefer my desktop  after like 30 mins with laptop on i could turn it over and fry an egg on the back
<AlanBell> maybe an install of 10.10 64 bit then an upgrade to natty :(
<livingdaylight> some heat less than others. I nearly bought an HP G62 yesterday until I felt the heat yesterdays at PCCurry's. So, back to the drawing board. Glad though, coz I discovered apart from eBuyer saveonlaptops.co.uk some great deals
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: as its graphical errors, i was going to suggest having a chat with the ubuntu xorg  chaps.
<livingdaylight> Looked at msi cr6200 yesterday - no heat - Acers seems pretty good too for no heat. As much as I love lenovo's they do emit a little, although not as much as some.
<DragonKeeper> brobostigon  oki
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: and they should be able to point you in a further right direction, and or help you.
<livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, what have you got? I had a lenovo R60e I could cook with. It got worse with time. I think Ubuntu on it didn't help
<shauno> mine doesn't tend to warm up too much unless I'm playing games or rendering video (or running natty)
<livingdaylight> is there much if anyting in it between a dual-core and an entry level i3 processor?
<DragonKeeper> livingdaylight i have a old easynote r005  laptop with debian 6  and a custom built desktop with 6 cores with ubuntu 11.04
<livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, I'll avoid the easynote then ^^
<DragonKeeper> i cant wait for the htc sensation release
<DragonKeeper> i want that phone :)
<livingdaylight> shauno is it because these laptops are not truly designed with Linux in mind? I@m pretty sure Ubuntu ruined my laptop
 * DragonKeeper has never had an o/s ruin a computer (installed different o/s's on 100s pcs)
<livingdaylight> lenovo ideapad U450 for Â£300 has got to be a good deal - http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/Lenovo_IdeaPad_U450_679711.html
<livingdaylight> just not sure on the dual-core vs i3 processor question
<DragonKeeper> i prefer amd. i like to buy a computer with out having to take out a mortgage
<livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, not directly, but if one os heats a laptop up more than another, presumably it could be attributed to doing so indirectly. The more (constant) heat the sooner the cpu is going to fry or fan as in my case will go.
<gord> i3 is a better choice htz for htz over a dual core
<DragonKeeper> if you have good cooling then im sure it wouldnt matter, tho laptops dont really provide that
<gord> i keep buying passively cooled stuff for my portables, its nice
<livingdaylight> DragonKeeper, note its specifically laptops i was referring to.
<DragonKeeper> lol everytime i log out of gnome 3 and log bk in something changes with the graphic problem
<AlanBell> i3 is dual core hyperthreaded, shows as 4 CPUs in the operating system
<gord> most dual cores are hyperthreaded too, will show 4 cpus
<livingdaylight> AlanBell, that's what I'm wondering - what's the difference then?
<DragonKeeper> gord   4 cores*
<gord> no
<gord> dual core
<DragonKeeper> yeah but will show 4 cores not 4 cpus
<gord> hyperthreading basically pretends to be four cores when you really have 2 (or eight cores if you have four)
<livingdaylight> coz there are real deals out there on dual-cores given that i3's, i5's and i7's are now cutting edge.
<gord> ... your software really does not care if they are cores or cpus
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: http://votegeek.org.uk/
<DragonKeeper> gord my point was it shows cores not cpus  if im not mistaken 2 cpus is the max for 1 motherboard
<livingdaylight> apart from gaming is there anything we use now adays that requires all this 'moar' powah than what used to serve us fine back when we used celerons and semprons
<AlanBell> core i7 fills the triangle in about 5 seconds
<gord> DragonKeeper, your software does not care if they are cores or cpus, it does not make any distinction
<gord> the kernel reports them as processors
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: not now that we rejected AV ;)
<DragonKeeper> grr gnome 3 crashed
<gord> livingdaylight, getting more done in a shorter time, rendering websites and such. its not about sustained raw power, its about snappyness and efficiency
<livingdaylight> the rejection of AV proves that one can't leave important decisions to the masses.
<AlanBell> sometimes a self appointed benevolent dictator for life sounds like a reasonable system of governance
<dutchie> back to absolute monarchy
<AlanBell> but that would be *really* dull to do maths about
<AlanBell> right, lets see if Maverick 64bit boots and installs . . .
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> AlanBell: btw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/triangles.png 404s
<dutchie> it is linked from your 3-way swingometers
<AlanBell> hmm, ok
<dutchie> which currently do a sterling job of crashing the chrome tab
<AlanBell> probably /votegeek/triangles.png
<dutchie> yeah, that works
<gord> mark for king?
<Gothfunc> i was using ubuntu studio karmic until recently.  i was using oss, but i'm guessing it wasn't true oss, but emulated?
<MartijnVdS> Gothfunc: most likely, yes
<Gothfunc> MartijnVdS, and i assume that's done with alsa-oss?
<MartijnVdS> Gothfunc: no idea, haven't used oss in a ges
<MartijnVdS> ages
<Gothfunc> hm, ok thanks
<Gothfunc> updated to meerkat using just alsa and the dj software i'm using has started to go too slow to use, but no devices are showing up on oss, and alsa-oss is installed
<Gothfunc> not started to go slow, it just was instantly
<AlanBell> fun, boot a maverick live CD and it asks if you want to upgrade it to Natty
<AlanBell> past the point of no return now
<Gothfunc> i'm just guessing it's ultramixer's flakey alsa support
<DragonKeeper> brobostigon  seems to be a driver issue when i turn off fglrx drivers it looks fine but the res isnt to my liking and a cant play games ;/
<Gothfunc> does anyone know how i can begin to diagnose why ultramixer can't see any devices via alsa-oss?
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: ah, interesting, atleast you know now.
<Gothfunc> (it could before)
<DragonKeeper> brobostigon yup but now need know how to fix it so can run both my screens ad play games with gnome3 and the fglrx driver
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: on that front i have no clue, at all.
<DragonKeeper> ok ill ask in a different channel
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: i would start by asking the xorg chaps.
<DragonKeeper> noone answering over there
<brobostigon> DragonKeeper: they will answer, be patient, i have had to be patient there many a time.
 * dutchie files bug 778983
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 778983 in jockey (Ubuntu) "Should use aptdaemon to install drivers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778983
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* dutchie
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> upgrade has started, hope this works
<czajkowski> AlanBell: see now yer jinxed
<AlanBell> deb files are downloading and being cached (in case I need to go round and do it again)
<kvarley> How can I play youtube videos from within Banshee Media Player?
<kvarley> Nevermind, had to enable it in the preferences and then show the context pane
<safiyyah> hi guys I have a basic question. I have added arabic as one of my keyboard languages, so now there are two. There is a thingi that goes on the panel that lets you easily switch between the two layouts, but it isn't coming up when I click add to panel
 * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of HazRPG 
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: HazRPG is our local Arabic expert :)
<safiyyah> it is called Keyboard indicator
<safiyyah> he is away
<safiyyah> ohhhh!
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: If you have two keyboard layouts defined, it should pop up when you click it
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: do the other indicator menus pop up when you click them?
<safiyyah> it does, but it comes up within the notification area
<safiyyah> I wanted it as part of the panel
<safiyyah> that was how I had it previously
<MartijnVdS> that's not possible anymore
<MartijnVdS> I think
<safiyyah> but keyboard indicator is no longer on Lucid
<MartijnVdS> safiyyah: If you set more than one keyboard layout, an icon will appear next to the clock to change layouts
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> thanx
<MartijnVdS> Or you can set a special modifier to change using a keystroke.
<MartijnVdS> (in the "Options" section/subdialog of the keyboard settings)
<MartijnVdS> ("Keys to change layout")
<safiyyah> MartinjnVdS thank you
<damian> ali1234: Seems that the flash problem is only affecting Firefox, using rekonq this morning so problems what so ever!  I left kde downloading/installing overnight
<AlanBell> yay, I have natty 64 bit installed
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> yay
<popey> AlanBell: yay
<AlanBell> alt+prtscr works now
<damian> Excellent!
<czajkowski> hmm i want rice crispy buns
<damian> Id rather someone refill my coffee
<AlanBell> interesting https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=208
<NRWlion> hello from germany ;)
<brobostigon> moin NRWlion :)
<gord> Hello from Hungary!
<NRWlion> hey folks looking for s-fox
<AlanBell> 66GB VBox.log files ftl
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> popey: did you see the askubuntu question got an answer?
<brobostigon> is it possibleto block one specific friend i have on facebook from IM'ing me?
<zleap> not sure
<brobostigon> i could do it directlyin empathy, but that doesnt solve the issue.
<AlanBell> might as well unfriend them
<AlanBell> because that is what will happen when they find out you blocked them :)
<brobostigon> good point AlanBell
<zleap> is there a reason you want to block, other than these ims
<brobostigon> no.
<kvarley> Which text encoding system does Ubuntu use? Ascii or Unicode?
<kvarley> Or another?
<AlanBell> unicode mostly
<ali1234> utf-8
<kvarley> utf-8 = ?
<kvarley> That's just unicode still?
<AlanBell> basically
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks :) just geeking up for my Computing exam
<ali1234> it's way of encoding unicode with which ascii is forwards compatible
<kvarley> ali1234: Interesting
<AlanBell> so for ascii characters you get 1 8 bit byte per character still
<kvarley> AlanBell: That's some nice compatibility then! In Ascii the characters have a numeric code - e.g. 65 = A, do you know whether Unicode takes this approach or not?
<AlanBell> yes, but bigger numbers
<AlanBell> or it can include bigger numbers
<AlanBell> !unicode
<AlanBell> á´
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thank you, I shall stop pestering you now hehe
<AlanBell> ctrl+shift+U 1234 made that character
<AlanBell> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1234/index.htm
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks for the help :)
<ali1234> á¾©
<AlanBell> suspend and resume is working well for me in Natty
<AlanBell> I can shut the lid and it just works, restores and reconnects ssh sessions and keeps playing last.fm music
<kvarley> AlanBell: :)
<AlanBell> close and go, just like having a macbook
<kvarley> AlanBell: Except it's better because it's Linux :P
<ali1234> if it keeps playing music it isn't suspending
<AlanBell> ali1234: it resumes playing the song it was playing when it was suspended
<NRWlion> cu guys
<ali1234> so it turns out that getting rid of resize grips is actually really really easy
<kvarley> ali1234: Are you talking about the annoying little square in the bottom right of the window which doesn't match the UI at all?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so now i just have to figure out how to make the launcher not annoying
<livingdaylight> I can't seem to right click xchat panel to send it to another workspace?
<kvarley> livingdaylight: Make sure the window isn't maximized then try
<livingdaylight> kvarley, just discovered that! how weird!
<kvarley> ali1234: That's the only feature which annoys me, it's cool that it's there but it just doesn't match the UI
<kvarley> livingdaylight: I had the same problem, most likely it's something they'll fix :)
<ali1234> i use human theme
<ali1234> so none of the new stuff matches it
<livingdaylight> also noticed that when I un-max it the window peels off the top panel but is still maxed out otherwise for all intent and purposes and spills off the screen into other workspaces
<kvarley> Does anybody know when I un-maximize a window why the menu bar (that contains File, Edit, Tools, etc) doesn't join up with the window? It's really irritating having to select the window and go to the top everytime
<livingdaylight> I actually came in to ask about video rendering. Downloaded a couple movies and they play fine off other laptops, with 11.04 on this desktop the colors are all weird?? black is pink and stuff like that.
<livingdaylight> when I play the movie in the examples folder it is fine, just the stuff I've downloaded.
<livingdaylight> at first thought I downloaded something corrupted, but then I tested something else out which I know played perfectly when I transferred it to a laptop, but also plays wonky on thid Desktop.
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/4umnhe nyommy
<kvarley> livingdaylight: What media player are you using to play it?
<livingdaylight> kvarley, tried both... first the default player then installed vlc - same result
<kvarley> Anybody know why I have a blue triangle in the top left of my screen on the Ubuntu button?
<livingdaylight> at first i thought the problem could be coz file was .mkv and installed vlc
<kvarley> livingdaylight: Weird, have you checked your gfx drivers config panel to see if the hue/saturation, etc aren't changes
<livingdaylight> kvarley, you have won a price! there are only a couple triangles like that!
<kvarley> livingdaylight: hehe I wish
<livingdaylight> kvarley, no, I didn't.
<kvarley> livingdaylight: Although it's weird that the colours on other videos are fine for you :/
<livingdaylight> kvarley, exactly
<kvarley> czajkowski: Jealous, they look tasty
<kvarley> Right as I go to upload the picture of the triangle it disappears =/
<shauno> pirates \o/
<MartijnVdS> Arr!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (ssh! no spoilers)
<shauno> that's not a spoiler :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no, but it might start of a discussion :)
<MartijnVdS> off
<shauno> arr.
<shauno> still not sold.  no-one ever has sensible conversations about pirates :)
<hamitron> pirating is wrong ;)
 * MartijnVdS buys Rickie Lee Jones - Pirates from U1MS
<hamitron> sometimes
<MartijnVdS> (really!)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Pirates_and_global_warming
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer:
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> there probably is a trend tbh
<hamitron> :s
<Azelphur> popey: I think it was you the other day that mentioned a variant of top for networking?
<Azelphur> so I can see what processes are using how much bandwith :P
<hamitron> ntop?
<Azelphur> hamitron: seems to want a webserver? XD
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Hmm?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Someone had an arabic problem?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: oh nevermind, they've gone offline...
<HazRPG> hamitron: there's an ntop?
<HazRPG> hamitron: I've been using "mon" this whole time
<HazRPG> or is it nmon
<HazRPG> Azelphur: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/top-linux-monitoring-tools.html
<Azelphur> fun
<jibadeeha> HazRPG, nice link
<HazRPG> jibadeeha: useful stuff though right :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I have a feeling iptraf is what your after really from that list
<jibadeeha> HazRPG, i discovered iftop the other day - another good one
<HazRPG> jibadeeha: nice :)
<jibadeeha> iotop is also good - helped me on a few occassions
<Azelphur> HazRPG: yea, it looks good :D
<jibadeeha> HazRPG, very useful list .. some i have not heard of
<HazRPG> indeed, some of the are already pre-installed and used by most scripts
<HazRPG> ps and grep always go hand-in-hand
<HazRPG> esp. when you pipe them out ;)
<Snomi> hi
<Snomi> For some reason my internet connection is half as fast on ubuntu as on windows
<Snomi> downloading
<Snomi> I assume this is something to do with the wireless card
<Snomi> I am running an acer 7736g laptop
<HazRPG> Snomi: not sure about that, I find my internet is faster in ubuntu then windows
<popey> Azelphur: iftop
<Snomi> HazRPG: hmm
<Snomi> I'm not really sure what to do
<Snomi> .np
<Snomi> oops
<HazRPG> I love the fact that I can now scan again ;D
<HazRPG> without having to make a stupidly long cable to connect the printer with ;D
<HazRPG> \o/ for sane
<AlanBell> Snomi: I saw someone else with a similar issue asked a question on askubuntu.com
<Snomi> AlanBell: hmm
<Snomi> I get 800kbps on windows, and about 300 on ubuntu
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/39631/wifi-too-slow-with-an-atheros-ar928x
<HazRPG> and I just got rid of the squeak in my chair \o/ - thank you WD40!
<HazRPG> must be a driver fault then
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/37409/why-is-my-internet-so-slow-with-an-atheros-wireless-card
<AlanBell> Snomi: ^^
<AlanBell> probably do that if you have an atheros card
<Snomi> also I quit out of my 11.04 install half way and I get an error logging into any old vers.
<Snomi> it says it cant mount /
<Snomi> even the 'safe modes'
<MattJ> Azelphur: how many monitors do you have nowadays?
<popey> a Miiiiiiiilion
<MattJ> I was waiting for "over 9000"
<Azelphur> MattJ: connected to 1 PC?
<Azelphur> or can I count everything in my house :p
<HazRPG> ... erm, this site is random: http://newsmap.jp/
<MattJ> Azelphur: at your workstation, however many PCs you have :)
<Azelphur> 4 active, soon 5
<Azelphur> when nvidia gets into gear and enables xrandr proper multi monitor support, 7
<Azelphur> when it's sorted I'll buy another 2 monitors so I can have a tri screen gaming setup while still maintaining my dual screen IRC setup at the same time :P
<andres_kain> Hi, I installed 10.10 unr on a friend's netbook. Until when will she have support and will the update manager force her to upgrade
<andres_kain> ?
<Azelphur> the upgrade manager will never force her to upgrade
<andres_kain> OK thanks! that was my main worry.
<Azelphur> andres_kain: however, you will only get security updates for 2 years I think
<MattJ> Azelphur: it's just that this picture always reminds me of you: http://awesome.naquadah.org/images/6mon.medium.png
<Azelphur> so when 12.10 comes out it's probably time to upgrade.
<Azelphur> MattJ: that's the screenshot on the front page of awesomewm :D
<Azelphur> it's a nice setup.
<MattJ> Yes :)
<HazRPG> woot \o/ http://hazrpg.deviantart.com/art/Happy-Puff-Ball-207960432
<Azelphur> MattJ: I get tempted to switch to awesome, I may well do when nvidia fixes itself up
<andres_kain> Thanks Azelphur!
<Azelphur> Compiz isn't very multi monitor happy
<Azelphur> andres_kain: welcome :)
<Azelphur> andres_kain: why the reluctance to upgrade, though?
<HazRPG> I must say, the scanner seems to work so much better under sane then it ever did with the windows epson software
<andres_kain> well I'm always told to wait 3 months or so for next upgrade
<Azelphur> why? o.O
<AlanBell> I have one of the samsung monitors in that rig
<Azelphur> where's your sense of adventure, I updated my main machine 3 months before natty came out :D
<andres_kain> she is not very good with computers so I'll have to show her how to do a back up. ... but I guess I can simply tell her to just copy files.
<Azelphur> yea, copy paste is easiest
<HazRPG> Azelphur: you brave soul lol
<Azelphur> HazRPG: that's nothing, I continually buy hardware with no Linux drivers.
<andres_kain> and I'm in a different country so can't give much support.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I don't update mine straight away for the simple fact that I use mine for both pleasure and work
<Azelphur> HazRPG: totally me in this comic, http://xkcd.com/644/ :D
<Azelphur> andres_kain: a clever trick that requires very minimal work is to install the OS on a separate partition to /home
<Azelphur> andres_kain: that way if the OS ever breaks, you can reload it without loosing your documents or application configuration.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: heh I use to do that :P
<Azelphur> I still do :)
<hamitron> haha Azelphur
<andres_kain> Yes, I keep reading about that... somewhere but never got around to do it myself.
<Azelphur> I have / on an SSD and /home on a 1TB hdd :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I remember when I'd upgrade while the daily builds or alphas were being pumped out :P
 * hamitron is the total oppersite
<hamitron> opersite
<Azelphur> hamitron: I know, you still run off a P1
<HazRPG> Azelphur: but that's just because I wasn't too worried about it breaking
<Azelphur> hamitron: opposite :p
<hamitron> ty
<hamitron> tired
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> HazRPG: same, I've got piles of machines here if one breaks I just use the other one until I fix the busted one xD
<Azelphur> also, I finished assembling my radiator
<HazRPG> Azelphur: also, I buy broken hardware too xD
<hamitron> it should be underfloor heating
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I used to do that when I didn't have much money :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my printer/scanner only just started working properly in linux over the last year, I've had it like 2-3 years now xD
<Azelphur> HazRPG: got a really nice computer for a tenner at a boot sale once, turned out it just had a misconfigured bios.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hah nice
<andres_kain> Azelphur, she has a netbook with Hdd but a sdd slot for an sd card. Do you think she could have \home in ther hdd and the rest on the sd? or too far fetched?
<Azelphur> andres_kain: entirely possible, but I wouldn't recommend it, SD cards die after a certain amount of read/writes, and that usually flies by rather quickly with a desktop OS on there
<Azelphur> (been there done that, it died in a month)
<Azelphur> (twice, although they was both cheap chinese generic brand cards)
<ali1234> sd cards are also damn slow
<Azelphur> that too.
<andres_kain> pity, I hat the same netbook and I would install it in mine and simply mail her the sd card.
<andres_kain> though my model is an sdd netbook. might be a bit different anyway.
<Azelphur> andres_kain: should be relatively easy to talk her through, I've talked a fair through rookies through the install myself
<Azelphur> just make sure she backs up before doing it, then you can't really go wrong
<hamitron> you could have teh OS on teh SD card, loading into the memory
<Azelphur> hamitron: not with Ubuntu on a netbook you couldn't
<andres_kain> yes I  guess. she was OK with installing spotify through wine so installing should be easier.
<hamitron> prob not full ubuntu, no
<Azelphur> yea :)
<hamitron> would need 2gb ram
<Azelphur> in other news, cooling this is how you do it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110507_225957.jpg :p
<hamitron> the grid
<hamitron> :)
<andres_kain> how much different is dropbox from ubuntuone btw?
<hamitron> nice cushion btw
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I think what your looking at is a rug xD
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> andres_kain: not a lot, they pretty much do the same
<andres_kain> I was goint to instal beta ubuntu on winxp but quit on having to install net 4.0
<andres_kain> wooo!!! I just got firefox 4.0.1 on ubuntu netbook LTS! I thought it was never going to happen!
<andres_kain> I'm one happy bunny
<andres_kain> If I don't have anything to save... can I just go for a shutdown or is that malpractice? I know windows is bound to crash on closing...
<penguin42> huh? Of course you can just shutdown
<Azelphur> andres_kain: by shutdown you mean clicking the shutdown button?
<Azelphur> or do you mean holding the power button
<penguin42> Azelphur: Good point
<andres_kain> clicking
<Azelphur> andres_kain: clicking the shutdown button is always ok, regardless of operating system
<Azelphur> and is recommended on all of them
<andres_kain> well. my work xp machine at work begs to differ... If I have outlook on I will run into problems for example. and If it's running a backup it will be worst.
<andres_kain> though I'll go to your recomendation of shutting down my work pc more often.
<penguin42> andres_kain: Backups can be a bit special
<AlanBell> Azelphur: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-dx-o-unity-bigscreen-productivity/
<Azelphur> AlanBell: just hangs at loading for me
<AlanBell> oh the pad, don't worry about that there is nothing in it yet
<AlanBell> refresh and it should work
<AlanBell> that is a tuesday AM session
<AlanBell> on unity on big monitors
<penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm will that also include things like multihead?
<AlanBell> probably
<andres_kain> are you guys serious about using 7 screens on one pc?
<andres_kain> one user?
<penguin42> that would be nice; I think I've seen pictures of 6 being done
<JGJones> having a lot of screens is always essential when you're an evil "take over the world" mastermind.
<shauno> or a flightsim nut
<JGJones> there's a difference?
<andres_kain> or on stock exchange
<andres_kain> same thing as well
<andres_kain> XD
<andres_kain> guys who work on energy companies also use at least 4.
<shauno> that said, it used to be normal to see sim nuts with far, far too many screens - I'd think a small handful of mid-sized TVs would be just as good now (and a lot cheaper)
<andres_kain> batman also uses loads of screens...
<JGJones> Penguin say that Batman is evil.
<JGJones> and Penguin is good. Otherwise it wouldn't be the mascot for Linux ;-)
<penguin42> http://www.quadvision.co.uk  seem to do lots of multihead stuff - and multi-lcd mounts - they've got wonderful case studies like: http://www.quadvision.co.uk/case-studies/teleperformance.html
#ubuntu-uk 2011-05-08
<HazRPG> hmm, someone sent me a message on YouTube about one of my videos it seems!
<HazRPG> hmm, my minecraft server died... that can't be good
<hamitron> died?
<HazRPG> yeah
<hamitron> like the full server is dead?
<HazRPG> the actual server itself is fine
<hamitron> or just mc
<hamitron> ah :)
<HazRPG> just mc died
<HazRPG> can't seem to figure out why it conked itself out though
<hamitron> it does it to draw attention from the admin, to avoid it been left unattended..... a feature
<HazRPG> ah, is that ubuntu feature? Or minecraft?
<hamitron> mc
<HazRPG> hmm
<hamitron> teh webby says the server is unstable
<hamitron> :D
<HazRPG> but I have a gmap script constantly interacting with it
<hamitron> have you fixed the memory it uses?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> might just do a 4 hourly check to make sure its still running
<HazRPG> woop!
<HazRPG> grep -c is perfect!
<HazRPG> (so glad I'm getting into the habit of checking the man pages xD)
<HazRPG> well this works so far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/604649/
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> use upstart
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> never done anything with upstart
<HazRPG> beside I though /etc/init.d/ should have kept it running anyways :S
<HazRPG> ali1234: I don't know how to convert my script to upstart :(
<Bulldog> im having an annoying issue over here ;/
<Bulldog> i removed fglrx and installed ati drivers  then it rebooted and now gnome session wont load
<mikefmail10> Hello
<Bulldog> hi?
<mikefmail10> Just installed this irc client and I am still finding my way around it.
<mikefmail10> Have been using Ubuntu for quite a while now. I think that it is brilliant, much better than anything Windows has to offer.
<Bulldog> that is true
<HazRPG> it is :3
<HazRPG> Bulldog: I'd help you out with your graphics problems, but I've never dealt with ATI stuff before
<HazRPG> might be worth trying to see if an older version of the ATI drivers work better though (or newer)
<Bulldog> HazRPG im doing a new install of ubuntu
<Bulldog> graphics was fine  its just gnome 3 doesnt liek them
<Bulldog> like*
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> weird
<Bulldog> might put the open ati driver on instead of fglrx  and see how well they run
<Bulldog> i hate how unity is laid out
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<Bulldog> can i install a gnome 3 environment  while keeping a gnome 2 session ?
<MartijnVdS> No idea. Don't think so though
<Bulldog> hmm
<MartijnVdS> What happened when you tried :P
<Bulldog> i havnt yet  but gnome 3 was a bit glitchy so i wanted to have both sessions so i can test with out it messing up again
<Bulldog> MartijnVds  what if i add another user ?  could i have gnome2 on one and 3 on other
<MartijnVdS> Bulldog: it all depends on the packaging
<MartijnVdS> Bulldog: not on the number of users you're using
<Bulldog> hmm im gonna have a try
<MartijnVdS> good luck
<Bulldog> hmm there must be a way because u can have  no effect mode / safe mode ect..
<KrimZon> in lucid, I added the session indicator applet to my panel and it worked at first, but then having rebooted it no longer hooks up to pidgin properly and just shows me as being offline
<Bulldog> try backing up /home/"user"/.purple/"accountsfile"   then uninstall pidgin  reinstall   then put the accounts file back   try a reboot and see if it works ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jibadeeha> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning jibadeeha :)
<jibadeeha> i need my second cup of coffee - too early
<brobostigon> no.
<Bulldog> think i figured it out MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> gpu lockup, :(
<sdh> :(
<Bulldog> grr all media players are playing audio and video at like x20 the normal speed with no sound
<Bulldog> something is wrong with gstreamer ;/
<Bulldog> whats the difference between the ati linux driver on the website and the Fglrx driver ubuntu offers
<jacobw> ubuntu just packages the driver as released by ati
<jacobw> there can't be any source differences because ati's driver is closed source
<jacobw> however, there's a open source driver called 'radeon' included in recent ubuntu releases
<Bulldog> ok
<Psychobudgie> Bulldog, you can't have both gnome2 and gnome3 installed at the same time, you can however try gnome3 in a virtual machine
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: gnome-session was fixed yesterday, to allow starting of other options at hdm thn just gnome-shell.
<brobostigon> gdm*
<Psychobudgie> it's not about selecting it
<Psychobudgie> as far as I'm aware
<Bulldog> i figured that if i build gnome3 then i can replace the session when i want to use it
<krashan> Can anybody help me? I have a quite a large problem>.<
<Psychobudgie> As I understand it you would have to uninstall gnome 3 completely and reinstall gnome 2 every time you switch
<brobostigon> however, to the point, gnome-session is now fixed, as of yesterday, so you canstart unity 3d/unity 2d, aswell as gnome-shell.
<Bulldog> hmm
<krashan> I installed the updated version of ubuntu (Think its 11.something something) And now when i open a firefox window amongst other things it turns white... As well with the idle screen is completely white...
<Psychobudgie> I'm quite happy leaving unity in the bin, but that's another story
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: me too, but i said i would report back, when gnome-session was fixed to allow for it.
<Bulldog> well if i gnome-shell --replace  when i want to use gnome3  then can have gnome2 installed as well
<Psychobudgie> try it, but my money is on it not working and probably trashing your system
<jacobw> you won't trash your system
<Bulldog> ok  its a fresh install so testing purposes
<jacobw> this isn't windows
<Bulldog> lol
<krashan> Are you guys talking to me?O.O
<Bulldog> no ...  but am now
<Psychobudgie> oh believe me, when it comes to unity/gnome2 and gnome 3 switching it's easy to lose track of what's broken and easier at that point to clean install
<krashan> Thanks:D
<Psychobudgie> lol
<Bulldog> yeah my other sessions broke last time had to reinstall 11.04
<Psychobudgie> this fantasy that reinstall is something that only ever happens in windows is just that
<popey> krashan: might be better asking in #ubuntu
<krashan> Alr
<jacobw> krashan: did you do a fresh install or upgrade from a previous version?
<krashan> No i did not:)
<popey> Psychobudgie: not for everyone
<krashan> I dont have any more cds to freshly install ubuntu>.<
<Psychobudgie> I never said it was, I know of systems that have been running windows xp for years without issues but others that need reinstalling after days
<Psychobudgie> that's my point
<Bulldog> use a usb then  krashan
<krashan> Alright... Though i have tryed that before but it did not seem to work...
<krashan> Could not find the usb and boot from it
<jacobw> to create a live usb you need to use liveusb-creator
<Bulldog> if you bios can boot from usb  then use unetbootin to load a iso to usb
<krashan> Unetbootin?
<krashan> Hmm could try that
<Bulldog> i fid unetbootin to work better than liveusb
<Bulldog> find*
<jacobw> krashan: have you updated since upgrading to 11.04, if not you may want to try that
<krashan> Alright ill just try:)
<popey> Bulldog: ditto
<krashan> I could not find any updates to it>.<
<krashan> Is there a way to repair ubuntu? Like a fresh boot ?
<Bulldog> yeah
<Bulldog> reinstall ;)
<jacobw> :|
<krashan> Danmit>.<
<brobostigon> krashan: repair, define what broken, to want to repaair?
<jacobw> krashan: so, when you start firefox it is just a white box?
<Bulldog> guess u could delete all files u put on there remove all packages u installed   but thats lot work
<jacobw> krashan: and the screensaver is just white was well?
<krashan> Well what is broken is the firefox.... and a couple of applications that just turns white.. and screeensaver as well:)
<jacobw> krashan: this sounds like a bug in your graphics driver
<Bulldog> graphics or flash problem
<awilkins> Which screensaver do you have configured - sounds like an OpenGL thing
<krashan> Hmm...
<brobostigon> krashan: can you be more specific, white, ok, the wholewindow including the window controls? ir just the main part of the window?
<jacobw> krashan: what graphics card are you using?
<awilkins> And which driver for it?
<jacobw> Bulldog: i'd say it was graphics problem seen as its not limited to firefox
<krashan> The white screen is with no buttons and im using a  nvidia graphics c ard a 125mb(or whatever mb counts froe a 100 mb graphics cards)
<Bulldog> you using the default driver ?
<awilkins> krashan, Are you using the default OSS "nv" driver or the proprietary one?
<brobostigon> if its a graphics issue, wouldnt errorspop up in xorg's logs?
<popey> we ship nouveau not nv these days
<awilkins> popey, 'pologies
<brobostigon> awilkins: or nouveau?
<krashan> Im trying to install a old versxion of the graphics card driver:)
<krashan> Cross your fingers...;)
 * Bulldog crosses his finger toes and eyes  for extra luck
 * Psychobudgie crosses his ears
<awilkins> If it's an nvidia card with ~100MB of RAM it's fairly old
<krashan> *Cough cough* I dont know what your talking about*Wishels*
<awilkins> I have a GF4MX mobo chipset (shared system RAM) powering my HTPC box, no shame in old
<jacobw> `lsmod` shows you what kernel modules are loaded
<krashan> IT WORKED!:D FUCK YEA!:D THANKS EVERYONE!:D
<jacobw> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<krashan> Sorry>.<
<jacobw> it's not a problem this time though :P
<jacobw> i wonder how he's tested it works :|
<awilkins> No longer draws white boxes instead of apps?
<Bulldog> firefox prob works again .....
<awilkins> I have to say, I can't remember having a positive experience with an OSS GPU driver... which I blame more on the dogs at nvidia and AMD, but it's still not the best default experience...
<jacobw> i've found radeon better than fglrx
<Bulldog> i like fglrx the best   the default driver doesnt run 3d acceleration     but i wanna use gnome 3  ad it doesnt like fglrx :(
<jacobw> fglrx has bugs that haven't been fixed for years, radeon keep fixing its bugs and improving
<Bulldog> yeah but i cant play games with the default driver
<jacobw> what games are these out of interest?
<Bulldog> mainly play AoE3  but i also install other games like call of duty  sims ect..
<awilkins> I just boot Windows for games.
<ging> minecraft not enough for you?
<jacobw> i'm not a gamer so i can't comment
<Bulldog> i dont like to disgrace my computer by booting into windows
<awilkins> I don't have time for minecraft. I realised this after building a secret underground lair with an exit in a small cabin on a tropical island.
<Bulldog> lmao
<Bulldog> dont you have to pay for mine craft ?
<awilkins> One-off payment of $10 or something when I bought it
<Bulldog> why buy it  it has no point   i thought it was just put and remove blocks o.O
<awilkins> Why buy lego, it's just put and remove blocks
<Bulldog> i didnt
<jacobw> why play computer games? its just put and remove bits :p
<awilkins> It's a toy, one that's not limited by the constraints of real world rules
<awilkins> A giant animatronic construction toy
<Bulldog> that would be a excuse for WoW
<jacobw> hi hamitron
<hamitron> hi guys
<hamitron> games are fun!
<awilkins> I find MMOs like that because I'm socially stunted
<hamitron> all I have to say
<hamitron> :D
<jacobw> they are, i'm using reducto ad absudium :p
<Bulldog> i mainly play black ops online  i find other games pointless because they are to easy
<hamitron> dunno wtf you are on about, but ok ;)
<awilkins> MMOs are social networks with orks
<jacobw> lol
<awilkins> I used to play EVE and quite enjoyed the social side of it, hanging with people I used to chat to on gaming forums
<awilkins> I also, for some inexplicable reason, find space mining really soothing
 * hamitron likes MMO for the player vs player aspect.... humans are unpredictable and cry when you beat them
<awilkins> Something about the whooshing of that orange mining beam, collecting valuable ores....
<hamitron> yeh
<awilkins> (* for given value of "valuable magnetic domain on a server in Iceland")
<hamitron> i also like mining in eve
<hamitron> but I also like the risk factor
<awilkins> Actually, I think the servers may be in London
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> in eve, you don't have a button saying "let nobody shoot me"
<hamitron> like in WoW
<awilkins> Yeah, losing your multimillion ISK mining vessel was always tense
<hamitron> I lost about 520 million last time :/
<awilkins> I used to wing it and mine the really valuable stuff in deep 0.0 using a crappy Osprey and get away with it unescorted because no-one thought you'd be dumb enough to do that.
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> the cormorant was ok for that too
 * awilkins wonders if he should speculatively register some domains that seem to be free just because he *might* use them one day
<hamitron> I have 1 name
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> Same name, different TLDs
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I got this idea for a project in my head
<hamitron> but not got enough understanding to make it
<hamitron> so working towards it
 * awilkins signs a virtual NDA
<awilkins> What's the idea?
<hamitron> a racing game, but just different
<awilkins> Alas, my games programming is non existent
<hamitron> but I see nothing like my idea done
<awilkins> Currently struggling to motivate self to write a Key/Value store frontend for git
<awilkins> So much struggling that currently 30 minutes aerobic torture on the rowing machine seems appealing
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I'm gradually moving away from IT with work
<hamitron> which I want to do
<hamitron> then intend to re-ignite my thirst for computing
<hamitron> it is starting to come back now tbh :)
<hamitron> but working ya ass off fixing other peoples problems all day, really puts me off working out other problems on a night
<hamitron> :/
<awilkins> I know THAT feeling
<awilkins> I have a hard time motivating myself to fix their stupid problems during the DAY
<hamitron> yeh, haha
<Bulldog> "i want to have a robot body so i can live forever"   "yeah but knowing your luck it will be powered by windows vista"
<awilkins> The problems at the moment are all very self-inflicted - they ignored me when I said (2 years ago) ; this software (we bought in) is cra, please throw it away and we'll have something better in 6 months.
<hamitron> on friday, I had to fix an RJ45 connector that had pulled itself off the cable
<hamitron> Â¬Â¬
<awilkins> Those damn self-motile RJ45 plugs
<awilkins> What were they thinking, not making them out of *inert* plastic
<hamitron> as people get more IT literate, I swear they seem to be getting more stupid
<Bulldog> "what can we make these out of  "  "erm lets see what scrap i have in this box"
<hamitron> at least when the average user was wary of technology, they were put off from touching it
<hamitron> messing, breaking
<hamitron> what had really happened I reckon, a member of staff had moved the server, thinking they would save calling me out for a fee
<awilkins> When I have an IT problem it's usually either i) Stupid password policy meant that I changed my password to something absurdly secure and forget it 5 minutes later
<hamitron> haha
 * hamitron pats his notepad
<awilkins> Or ii) Something Really Bad caused by Meddling Where I'm Not Wanted
 * jacobw also pats hamitron's notepad ;)
<hamitron> hands off!
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> use `apg`
<awilkins> I was thinking of getting one of those OTP generator things
<awilkins> Yubikey or something
<hamitron> apg?
<awilkins> A Password Generator?
<jacobw> `sudo apt-get install apg`
<jacobw> it generates phonetically memorable passwords
<hamitron> I just use a random gen :/
<MartijnVdS> pwgen -s
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<hamitron> main problems are: Typing errors + Reading my own handwriting
<jacobw> e.g.
<jacobw> Told5quo (Told-FIVE-quo)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: so does pwgen
<hamitron> is it not more secure to have a totally random password?
<hamitron> ;)
<awilkins> I pick song lyrics and mangle them as per my own internal password mangling algorithm
<awilkins> Makes for passwords that are at least long
<hamitron> gawwwwwwwwwwwd
<hamitron> glad I am getting out of it
<hamitron> :D
<awilkins> Our stooopid email password thing has an UPPER limit of 14 chars
<jacobw> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9943718&postcount=16
<jacobw> this is cool as well
<hamitron> length limits are a pain
<hamitron> :/
<awilkins> But if you enter more than 14, it truncates them silently. So you end up locked out fairly easily
<hamitron> also, certain weird requirements on some sites
<awilkins> I wanted a PAM module that uses scancodes, not chars ... the <del> in the middle? That's part of your password.
<awilkins> Guess that, password cruncher!
<hamitron> Ih8<Del>tree
<jacobw> what are you getting out of hamitron ?
<hamitron> IT
<hamitron> wanted to do more hands on engineering for a while
<hamitron> still not found what I will do long term though
<hamitron> gotta do what work there is atm
<Bulldog> there is no work here except cleaning o.O
<awilkins> So, who's recommended as domain registrar?
<hamitron> I use 1and1
<MartijnVdS> gandi.net
<MartijnVdS> (they're quite opensource-friendly)
<hamitron> I just set my dns and leave it
<hamitron> :D
<awilkins> It it just me, or are you really reluctant to search for domain names on the front page of registrars, in case that domain shows up parked the next day?
<hamitron> hehe, yeh
<hamitron> I stick to getdotted.com for that reason, for searching
<hamitron> everything I search on there never seems to get registered, so I stick to it
<hamitron> but I'm sure there are plenty that wouldn't do that
<Bulldog> maybe theres a reason noone wants it.  what you searching for lol
<czajkowski> hmm  not liking dr. who so far :(
<hamitron> most first choices are taken :/
<hamitron> DON'T SAY ANYTHING  czajkowski
<hamitron> plz
<hamitron> I got it recorded :/
<czajkowski> hamitron: say please  properly and not sms speak so
<hamitron> please
<hamitron> :)
<czajkowski> fine
<hamitron> thanks :D
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: next week will be better (Neil Gaiman's episode)
<MartijnVdS> *CAN'T WAIT*
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: mutters cant comment hamitron said please
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: go watch now, so we can talk again in here :P
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I'll be watching later, when everyone else in the house is
<hamitron> I should maybe get a tv
<hamitron> 5 computer screens + a tv would just push my desk space over the edge
<hamitron> :/
 * MartijnVdS has a 42" TV in the living room to watch BBC (One) HD on :)
<awilkins> I could stream it as ASCII art to the IRC channel..... (dammit, excess flood)
<hamitron> my parents is only 40"
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> non-HD
<MartijnVdS> Also, C4 HD (\o/), ITV 1 HD (why?!)
<MartijnVdS> Freesat++
<hamitron> why what?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I haven't seen anything I want to watch on ITV yet :)
<hamitron> I prefer ITV to BBC
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I only watch Top Gear, QI and Doctor WHo
<hamitron> Top Gear, Doctor Who and F1
<MartijnVdS> ah and F1
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<hamitron> that is about it
<hamitron> I prefer ITV news
<MartijnVdS> I watch the Dutch news, usually :)
<hamitron> I'll be dropping F1 at this rate
<hamitron> just bored with it
<MartijnVdS> It's great background tv
<hamitron> Motorsport UK on ITV I find better
<MartijnVdS> when cleaning
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> ITV 4 I mean
<mang0> ello ello
<hamitron> hi
<hamitron> :)
<mang0> I'm trying to get nvidia drivers to work
<mang0> but they don't seem to want too :/
<hamitron> what card you got?
<mang0> nVidia Geforce FX 5200
<mang0> fairly old
<hamitron> you are using the 96 driver then?
<mang0> but basically, in the additional drivers thing, it had nvidia drivers. I installed it, and restarted, but it says that its installed but not in use
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> I'm not on a ubuntu machine atm :/
<mang0> :S
<mang0> hamitron: http://www.truploader.com/view/321986
<hamitron> hmmm
<Bulldog> gnome3 is taking ages to build o.O
<hamitron> well, 173 series driver should be fine
<mang0> yeah, hamitron they are installed, but deciding not to enable
<mang0> http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/5/12708042020-orig.png thats what I see in the xconfg file in terminal
<hamitron> I've had a quick search, not found a solution yet
<hamitron> I have to leave I'm afraid
<hamitron> so hopefully someone else can help
<hamitron> :/
<mang0> :/ okay, cya :) thanks for looking
<hamitron> I'll look later if it isn't sorted then
<mang0> thanks
<hamitron> :)) good luck o/
<mang0> I was about to ask if you are in UK
<mang0> but obv
<mang0> haha
<jacobw> Bulldog: it will, its a massive set of programs
<jacobw> Bulldog: most people would use the PPA.. ;)
<Bulldog> jacobw yeah but i want to have gnome 2 and 3
<mang0> just gonna reboot hold on
<Bulldog> jacobw if you use ppa it updates the gnome-shell so you can use both
<Bulldog> cant*
<Bulldog> :D it works
<Bulldog> i can just --replace with the gnome3 shell and gnome 2 shell
<Bulldog> its a mix of gnome 3 and 2  so i get the desktop icons as well
<mang0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10786637#post10786637
<mang0> elp!
<Bulldog> mang0  on the login screen is you will have a drop down bar to choose a session   make your its on unity
<Bulldog> make sure *** :S
<mang0> I didn't see unity listed there, I'll check in a minute though
<Bulldog> kk
<Bulldog> "im not drinking and driving ... im driving while im drinking so its not illegal"
<Guest90902> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thans in advance
<Azelphur> Anyone here using Unity tell me if the Window decoration plugin is supposed to be enabled?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: gord knows
<Azelphur> I'm having a distinct lack of window decorations without it, but when I enable it it messes up unity :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: in what way
<Azelphur> the top panel just goes black.
<MartijnVdS> even after logging out and back in?
<Azelphur> yes
<Azelphur> and restarting unity
<Azelphur> if I turn off window decorations the top panel works, but I have no decorations xD
<Azelphur> It does seem to be an entirely cosmetic glitch, if I guess where the buttons are on the top panel I can click them fine
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<mang0> How do I exit the X server?
<mang0> I need to, for a driver installation
<popey> Azelphur: window decoration is enabled on my machine by default
<popey> mang0: sudo service gdm stop
<popey> which will kill your x session
<popey> and log you out
<mang0> kk
<davmor2> popey: 'Ow do
<popey> lo
<popey> Azelphur: http://0WWwH
<popey> bah
<popey> Azelphur: http://imgur.com/0WWwH
 * davmor2 is currently enjoying a huge costa coffee, thinks he might need it not getting to budapest till 22:20 plus 40 mins to hotel + getting bag could be a long day
<Azelphur> popey, fun, ty
<Azelphur> there, fixed :D
<Azelphur> enabled window decoration and relogged, seems to be alive now
<davmor2> popey: hows the super hub, and does it cover your dyndns?
<popey> davmor2: great, it doesnt do dyndns, so i have ddclient on a box inside the lan
<popey> it also doesnt seem to let you set dns servers
<davmor2> popey: no justs ping your account every so often to save you having to refresh your account
<popey> no
<popey> i have installed ddclient
<popey> so i dont need to do anything at all
<davmor2> popey: there is also a dyndns package
<popey> its okay, i have ddclient
<davmor2> I forgot the it
<davmor2> no it just pings.....
<davmor2> popey: sorry the superhub doesn't, not ddclient I misread your comment
<Azelphur> I don't think this is meant to be possible, I got unity + compiz cube :D
<Azelphur> (good thing)
<davmor2> Azelphur: nope that is fine
<Azelphur> I thought it was blocked?
<davmor2> Azelphur: no just doesn't make much sense to a new user from what I understood
<Azelphur> ok :p
<Azelphur> It wasn't long ago I was fighting with it because unity depends on desktop wall which conflicts with desktop cube
<Azelphur> davmor2, yea, I can't do it on my netbook :p
<Azelphur> Desktop Wall provides the feature largedesktop which is required by the plugins "Ubuntu Unity Plugin"
<Azelphur> wait, that's stupid :s
<Azelphur> Plugin Desktop Wall provides feature largedesktop which is also provided by Desktop Cube
<Azelphur> so then why is it complaining that largedesktop is required by unity when cube provides it, argh :p
<davmor2> Azelphur: blame gord ;) works for me :D
 * Azelphur blames gord :P
<Azelphur> davmor2, and now I'm getting the same panel drawing issues on my netbook, clearly unity doesn't like cube at all :D
<davmor2> Azelphur: man any one would think you thought unity was there for customisation man ;)
<davmor2> Azelphur: just change the backdrop and get on with life :D
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> I like unity and customization, I'm making it happen :D
<Azelphur> I've more or less got it working on my netbook, looks kinda cool the unity menu stays static while the cube rotates inside it
<davmor2> Azelphur: yeah that sounds right
<Azelphur> lol, it looks like compiz mouse grabbing doesn't work, I can only rotate the cube within the bounds of my display
<Azelphur> once the invisible mouse pointer hits the edge of the screen I can't rotate the cube any more D:
<Azelphur> oh wait, that's just a synergy quirk.
<Azelphur> yep, got it working flawlessly on my netbook now :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: Yay! you 1337 hacker you :D
<Azelphur> davmor2, you should have seen what I did the other day, I ordered some parts from wcuk, and the total came to Â£13.37 http://bit.ly/lm7Aza :p
<davmor2> haha
<ocean_> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<Guest67286> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<penguin42> Guest67286: Did you try the rescue/recovery option on the grub menu?
<Guest67286> penguin42, no i havent done that, can u explain me how to do it
<Guest67286> thanks
<penguin42> Guest67286: Can you get the grub menu up?
<Guest67286> penguin42, yes it comes up with grub initially
<penguin42> Guest67286: OK, i think the option 2nd down on that menu is rescue/recovery or something similar
<Guest67286> penguin42, yes i have seen that. what can i do after selcting that option, is it command line?
<penguin42> Guest67286: I can't remember to be honest, but it should at least give you some more diagnostics rather than a black screen if you are lucky
<Guest67286> penguin42, i thought rescue mode is command line from where u can operate ubuntu
<penguin42> Guest67286: Well the important thing is to find out why there is a black screen, if you are lucky it will display more information there - I think the rescue mode doesn't use th e pretty splash screne etc - it just displays the info
<Guest67286> penguin42, i think it is the problem with the switchable graphics
<Guest67286> .
<penguin42> yes that's possible
<Guest67286> penguin42, rescue mode does it boot up with GUI
<Guest43043>  hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Banishing the demons of distraction - http://daubers.co.uk/2011/05/08/banishing-the-demons-of-distraction/
 * dutchie notes that despite that blog post there is still a daubers on irc :P
 * DJones points out to dutchie that daubers _IS_ the distraction :)
 * brobostigon likes daubers's choice of wordpress theme.
<gord> bout ready to go home now, uds doesn't really need unity sessions right?
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> popey, this inspiron duo is going to be such a bucket of fun :D
<popey> is that sarcasm?
<Azelphur> kernel panics, headphone don't work, touch screen don't work, advanced touch pad features don't work xD
<gord> evolution is claiming folders i have which i know have lots of mail, have non. i am inclined to believe it is lying
<Azelphur> popey, a little, but I do see it as a learning opportunity :D
<Azelphur> do you have any new suggestions on what I should do to capture the kernel panic log?
<Azelphur> I've been asking around and havn't got any answers :(
<XenoPhoenix> Does anybody know what might be causing green video since the 10.10 -> 11.04 upgrade? Goes away when I replug the display, but if I turn the display off and back on again afterwards it's green again :/
<brobostigon> ok, opinions, debian stable/testing or unstable/sid, or  ubuntu 10.04 lts or 11.04, for vps. now debian sid is a definate bad idea, aswould testing, i reckon. any ideas, on guidance, please.
<XenoPhoenix> what Virtualisation technology is the VPS using? ubuntu-ec2 kernel is good for xen
<brobostigon> XenoPhoenix: bitfolk, so xen.
<XenoPhoenix> I had good experiances with LTS on xen, very stable / fast not played with the others in a vps environment though so somebody else might be able to give a better comparison
<brobostigon> ok, thankyou for your point of view, XenoPhoenix :)
<popey> brobostigon: i run 10.04 on three Bitfolk VPS's
<brobostigon> popey: ok, thank you also, in mymind it was either debian stable or 10.04.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: personally for servers that are mine to play with I run the same operating system as my laptop (natty now)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that would for me, be sid and or natty.
<popey> yay, my RAID10 array has nearly finished migrating from RAID1
<popey> huzzah!
<popey> i love linux software raid
<popey> you get no security updates in sid brobostigon
<popey> which I would be concerned about for a public facing box
<brobostigon> popey: very true, yes.
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> bug 779391
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 779391 in exim4 (Ubuntu) "CVE-2011-1764: format string vulnerability" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779391
<popey> wonder when that will get fixed
<Guest43043>  hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<brobostigon> ok, so either debian stable, or 10.04. hmmm.
<hamitron> both seem ok from my experience
<brobostigon> debian stable is now only a few months old. lts is now over a year old.
<shauno> it's a tough choice atm.  yes lts is over a year old, but you're pretty sure when the next version will be.  debian's roadmap is never that concrete
<brobostigon> very true, yes, also.
<hamitron> I'd personally use ubuntu because of that, only used debian on my vps cuz the choice was ubuntu 10.10 or debain 6
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> Hmm, if a devices headphone port doesn't work out of the box, but it does work with a config edit, should I still file a bug?
<brobostigon> hamitron: you have a good point, yes,
<hamitron> shauno made it tbh
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> Hmm, this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/654008 says fix committed
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 654008 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] - no sound from Headphone" [Low,Fix committed]
<Azelphur> does that mean it's in natty already?
<MartijnVdS> or oneiric
<MartijnVdS> fix committed was in october
<MartijnVdS> so it's in natty
<Azelphur> well I'm still getting that issue on natty :p
<Azelphur> fun, it's still broked then D:
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ubuntu-bug audio :)
<brobostigon> overall, i think ltc 10.04 might be the best.
<brobostigon> lts*
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, can I do that with the alsa-base.conf edit in still? or should I take that out to re-break sound :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'd re-break first (keep a backup)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it'll wizard you through some "Is it still broken if I do this" steps
<Azelphur> k :)
<Guest43043>  hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, it's the headphone port that breaks without the alsa-base.conf edit :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ubuntu-bug will guide you to create a bug. You can attach the fixed alsa-base.conf later :)
<Azelphur> Guest43043, can you get to grub?
<Guest43043> Azelphur, yes i can
 * Azelphur does some quick googling for the arguments I'm trying to remember :p
<Azelphur> Guest43043, select the line in grub for booting 11.04
<Azelphur> press E
<Azelphur> delete the words "quiet splash" then boot (I think it's F10 to boot, it'll say at the bottom)
<Azelphur> that should stop the splash screen from appearing, allowing you to see any errors that may be causing brokenness
<Guest43043> Azelphur, sorry how can I delete the splash
<Azelphur> with the arrows on the keyboard and the delete key? it's a text editor...
<Guest43043> Azelphur, i have got a switchable graphi card
<Guest43043> can it be the problem
<Azelphur> lets start this from the beginning :p
<Azelphur> can you get to grub?
<Guest43043> Azelphur, yes i can get to the grub menu.first time when i did a hot restarting it did not get to ubuntu 11.04. did a cold restarting and i could use the ubuntu 11.04 as i mentioned earlier
<Azelphur> right, in grub can you see the 11.04 line?
<brobostigon> ohdear, i just realised, i havent actually ever properly   setup a firewall under linux yet.
<Guest43043> Azelphur, yes i can see that still.
<Azelphur> Guest43043, right, so select that line and press E
<Azelphur> it'll bring you into a text editor.
<Guest43043> Azelphur, ok so what happens then
<Azelphur> then you delete the words quiet splash in the text editor like I said and you can see the errors \o/
<Guest43043> Azelphur, so i will press E, delete the quiet splash with the text editor, and do i need to restart it again?
<Guest43043> to c the errors
<Azelphur> Guest43043, no, then you need to press the button to boot, it'll say what it is at the bottom, I believe it's F10
<Guest43043> Azelphur, the  "quiet splash" comes under inverted comas right? do I have to remove just those wordings or includint the inverted comas.
<Azelphur> I don't believe it's in inverted commas
<Guest43043> Azelphur, ok, so would it allow me to boot into 11.04 or is that the step to c errors
<Azelphur> it's just a step to see the error.
<Guest43043> ok
<Guest43043> Azelphur, :-( so what should i do with errirs now
<Guest43043> Azelphur, i am so sorry to ask this stupid Q
<Azelphur> put them on pastebin.com so we can see them?
<Azelphur> and then we might have a better idea what's causing your issue :p
<Guest43043> Azelphur, ok, i can come on my desktop no under the name "ocean" is that oka
<Guest43043> y
<Azelphur> yes
<Guest43043> Azelphur, thanks
<zleap> is there a channel for open office ?
<AlanBell> #libreoffice
<zleap> ok thanks
<brobostigon> have fun everone, going to the pub.
<zleap> i am trying to select some fontwork text and can't
<mang0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10787619#post10787619
<mang0> :)
<mang0> hamitron: I found out some stuff about my card...
<popey> mang0: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TabletSetupWizardpen
<mang0> ah
 * mang0 facepalm
<popey> that was from googling WP5540U
<zleap> how do I change the text in fontwork ?
<zleap> open office
<mang0> popey:  what is this "google" you talk of? :P
<MartijnVdS> mang0: it's like bing, but different
<mang0> bing?
<mang0> XD
<mang0> Just trollin' :)
<MartijnVdS> just feedin' :)
<hamitron> :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Wasn't "Bing" the original form of Rick Rolling http://bit.ly/y63Os
<MartijnVdS> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow
<DJones> :)
<Guest85736> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04(fresh install) on my hp pavilion dv6 3150 sa. the X crashes on the restart, please find the pastebin http://paste.ubuntu.com/604907/ can any one help please
<Guest85736> hi popey, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04(fresh install) on my hp pavilion dv6 3150 sa. the X crashes on the restart, please find the pastebin http://paste.ubuntu.com/604907/ can any one help please
<popey> Guest85736: thats a fresh install?
<Guest85736> popey, yes it was a fresh install on some spare space i had on my new laptop. i ahve got 10.10 and win 7 along with athat
<popey> looks like you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf there. you might want to remove that
<Guest85736> popey, how can i do that popey, and after all whats the problem there?
<popey> sudo mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf_backup_20110508
<Guest85736> popey, can i come back after running that command on rescue mode?
<popey> how are you here now?
<popey> in windows?
<Guest85736> popey, i am using my other laptop
<popey> ok
<Guest85736> popey, it says etc/X11/xorg.conf no such file or directory
<popey> interesting
<popey> did you have a / in front of that etc?
<Guest85736> popey, yes /etc
<popey> no idea then sorry
<Guest85736> popey, i can pastebin anything if u want from it if that helps
<Guest85736> when i initially installed it the hot boot did not work, the cold boot worked alright, and it started crashing since i used the ubuntu classic desktop once
<Guest85736> when i initially installed it the hot boot did not work, the cold boot worked alright, and it started crashing since i used the ubuntu classic desktop once
<popey> you might be better off asking in #ubuntu
<Guest85736> popey, i was referd here from #ubuntu
<popey> o_O
<Guest85736> popey, u know i had some trouble with the same laptop when i installed 10.10, the problem was with the switchable graphic card
<Guest85736> popey, it crashed when i installed a propritary driver for the ATI graphics card
<Guest85736> popey, The X crashed
<popey> sorry, i cant help right now
<popey> someone else may be able to
<Guest85736> popey, its ok, can u guide me in the right direction, #ubuntu is that the best place to get some help abt it
<popey> #ubuntu or http://askubuntu.com/
<AlanBell> Guest85736: does the live CD do the same thing?
<Guest85736> AlanBell, no i have used the live CD alright.
<Guest85736> AlanBell, any help?
<AlanBell> hmm
<AlanBell> you mentioned an ATI card, but that log is from an intel card
<AlanBell> oh switchable
<AlanBell> um, switch it the other way, see what happens?
<Guest85736> AlanBell, please see this issue i have filed in launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/698274 the first one i s the same kind of problem i had with 10.10 the last post is my current problem
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 698274 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu) "ATI/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics driver issues" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<Guest85736> AlanBell, there is no option to switch it even in bios. win 7 can do it automatically when u plygin to ac power
<ali1234> why doesn't notify-send work?
<popey> wfm
<ali1234> command line used?
<popey> notify-send moo
<ali1234> i see no notification
<popey> I'm on 11.04 unity
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> reported
<ali1234> which package actually draws them?
<ali1234> libnotify?
<ali1234> notify-osd?
<DJones> Guest85736: Is this of any help with switchable graphics https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics
<Guest85736> DJones, now  the problem is x is crashing on restart
<ali1234> well, this is fun
<ali1234> notify-osd is broken, and pidgin bonjour is also broken
<ali1234> and i need to take a screenshot of the osd
<ali1234> so could everyone please spam me with /msg? thanks
<ali1234> well thats interesting, notifications from pidgin stopped working too
<safiyyah> something wierd has happened with my desktop view. The panels and background, even the cube have kept the settings but when you open nautilus or open office, it looks like windows 98. the icons, the folders etc
<ali1234> gnome-settings-daemon crashed
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> so i need to do what?
<safiyyah> ali1234, ?
<ali1234> open a terminal, run gnome-settings-daemon
<ali1234> see what it says
<popey> will also need to restart nautilus
<popey> it doesn't get updated immediately by a restart of gsd
<popey> known bug
<ali1234> popey: tracked down my osd problem: something is blocking low and normal urgency notifications here
<ali1234> any idea what could do that?
<popey> ooo
<popey> no
<popey> gconf somewhere?
<ali1234> eg notify-osd -u critical hello gets displayed
<safiyyah> okay $ restart nautilus    doesn't work
<popey> oh, are you set away?
<safiyyah> what was I supposed to have types
<ali1234> i use pidgin
<ali1234> pidgin says i am available
<popey> hmm
<popey> skype?
<popey> no safiyyah
<ali1234> no don't use skype
<popey> hmm
<ali1234> pidgin is notoriously unreliable when setting status though
<popey> i bet its that
<ali1234> often it says "available" and all you're buddies see "on holiday" or something dumb like that
<popey> hah
<popey> sweet
<safiyyah> okay I am sorry but as usual, I need a step by step
<ali1234> i think the problem with pidgin is it doesn't handle status on multiple accounts well
<ali1234> safiyyah: close nautilus and then open it again, in the normal way you do that
<popey> safiyyah: in a terminal do this:-
<popey> ali1234: thats not sufficient
<popey> ali1234: you have to killall nautilus
<ali1234> hum
<safiyyah> i already did that and rebooted
<popey> after restarting gsd
<popey> safiyyah: do this:-
<popey> kilall gnome-settings-daemon
<popey> bah
<popey> killall gnome-settings-daemon
<popey> then killall nautilus
<popey> see if the theme resets itself
<safiyyah> okay killall gnome-settings-daemon made me lose everything
<safiyyah> now even the panels are back to the strange view
<popey> right
<popey> now run
<popey> gnome-settings-daemon
 * popey tickles daubers 
<daubers> lo
<safiyyah> thnx popey that worked
<popey> np
<safiyyah> next problem
<safiyyah> can't install libre office
<safiyyah> not found on synaptic at all
<popey> what version of ubuntu are you using?
<safiyyah> lucid
<popey> its not in the repository I think
<daubers> lucid is OOo only isn't it? PPA for libre (iirc)
<safiyyah> i have to get it from their site?
<popey> libreoffice is only in natty and newer
<popey> yes safiyyah or a ppa
<popey> !libreoffice
<lubotu3> Current stable releases of Ubuntu use OpenOffice.org, and do not have supported packaging for LibreOffice. Ubuntu developers are working on packaging for Ubuntu Natty and backports for 10.10 and 10.04. See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-January/032298.html for more information on progress and an unstable, unsupported PPA.
<safiyyah> are you guys no longer running lucid?
<popey> safiyyah: why do you want libreoffice?
<daubers> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/libreoffice-gets-3-3-0-stable-version-released-ppa-installation-instructions-included.html
<popey> what does it have that openoffice doesnt?
<ali1234> a better name
<safiyyah> no I will put open office back
<popey> debateable
<safiyyah> one other question
<ali1234> OO.o is a silly name
<popey> as is libreoffice
<ali1234> less silly
<safiyyah> has anyone installed MSOffice on PlayOnLinux?
<popey> i have not
<mgdm> libreoffice had a working presenter mode for doing presentations for me
<mgdm> OOo did not
 * daubers bangs his head against an electronics book
<safiyyah> night from me gusys
<safiyyah> guys*
<Laney> rawr
<ali1234> what is zubuntu?
<hamitron> zuma!
<hamitron> maybe
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> oh he means xubuntu
<fujisan> hello
<fujisan> i have a problem :(
<shauno> fujisan: being able to admit it is the first step :)
<fujisan> hehe
<fujisan> nah Ubuntu 11.04 on my bedroom pc is a bit wonky
<fujisan> kinda dependent on my bedroom pc now Mac is being repaired since the superdrive is busted
 * Laney wibbles
<shauno> what's it doing?  wonky's a bit vague
<Laney> who from -uk is in budapest?
<fujisan> whenever i try to change the resolution in 11.04 the resolution gets messy i get redraw errors every window leaves traces it doesn't refresh it's a mess basically
<james_w`> Laney, do I count
<james_w`> ?
<fujisan> shauno:  and its so hot now :(
<Laney> james_w`: always â¥
<Azelphur> Hmm, interesting. Certain addresses can't connect to my server, and my server can't connect to them. The packets are dropped in the datacenter on the hop before my server o.O
<Azelphur> sent a ticket off to my host, wonder what causes that xD
<popey> I've had that, routing issue
<popey> there's an ISP in canada that can't get to my VPS
<popey> or any VPS on that subnet
<ali1234> i found out why i am "away"
<ali1234> it's because i am running eve fullscreen
<ali1234> i'm clearly not away though, it's on another desktop
<ali1234> look, i am not away, i am right here
<hamitron> eve <3
<Azelphur> ali1234, :P
<Azelphur> popey, interesting, was your issue inside the datacenter too?
<popey> the issue was the crappy routing at the canadian ISP
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> nah, for me if the client traceroutes me it gets all the way to the last hop in the datacenter
<Azelphur> and if I traceroute the client it doesn't make first hop
<popey> yes, same here
<popey> oh, i can get back
<Azelphur> that's weird
<Azelphur> yea, I can't get back at all, dropped before first hop
<popey> nice
<Azelphur> fired off an email to the datacenter, they are clearly pondering it as it's been like an hour and usually they reply in seconds :p
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-30
<popey> pip pip
<Azelphur> haha, your up early
<Azelphur> was just about to ask in here, everybody has probably heard of soreau, nice guy who is working on wayland and wrote the compiz git scripts for Ubuntu and is a generally all round really cool guy
<popey> i am in sfo
<Azelphur> just found out he's still using a really old P4 2.8ghz, so I'm trying to crowd source him a new PC
<Azelphur> I found a AMD Athlon 4200+ x2 with 2GB RAM for $110, so any money towards that appreciated :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: him using an old machine is good, it means wayland will perform on old hardware a:P
<Azelphur> haha, but trying to develop on that, he needs to compile stuff, really must take forever on that old hardware
<Azelphur> and we all want stuff like wayland to be ready soon
<MartijnVdS> The Cloud :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> but no, donate or I will continue to guilt you! xD
<popey> AlanBell: ubuntu-uk fix0r3d
<popey> problem was logrotate changing permissions on log files, and then restarting lighttpd and that caused it to fail to statr
<popey> time for sleep
<ali1234> as long as you don't buy him a nvidia or ati card
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> why not?
<ali1234> then he won';t be able to run wayland at all
<Azelphur> works with the open drivers?
<ali1234> you mean, it works if the open drivers work
<Azelphur> yea, it does work with the open drivers
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> amd athlon 4200+ x2, dfi lanparty ultra-d mobo, 2gb g.skill ddr 400
<Azelphur> is the hardware I'm getting
<ali1234> do no tbuy g.skill rubbish
<Azelphur> it's used, kinda have to take what I can get
<Azelphur> and g.skill isn't rubbish :o
<ali1234> whut
<ali1234> i thought you were crowd sourcing?
<Azelphur> I am, I found a guy with a used machine who will sell it very cheap, and now I'm crowd sourcing some cash
<Azelphur> and then I'll buy it and have it shipped to him
<ali1234> oh i thought you were crowd sourcing da money
<ali1234> and then buying something actually good :)
<Azelphur> well I mean if I got a sensible amount of money I'd buy something better
<ali1234> seriously, g.skill?
<Azelphur> I can only really go to about $80 on my own, and the machine is $110
<Azelphur> dunno how many donations I'll get, but I assume not much more than that
<Azelphur> and that machine is way better than a P4 2.8ghz with 1GB RAM
<Azelphur> and some shitty AGP graphics card
<ali1234> afaict g.skill is designed for people who overclock their computer so much that it is guaranteed to crash, therefore they won't notice it is completely horribly unstable even if you don't overclock it
<Azelphur> if you have some parts to sell, I can swap it out :)
<Azelphur> (or even better, parts to donate)
<ali1234> i've got some g.skill ram you can have for free
<Azelphur> cool, how many GB and what type? :D
<ali1234> 2GB DDR 400 i think
<Azelphur> sounds good, that'll knock the price down as I can tell the guy I'm getting the parts from I don't need no ram
<ali1234> it claims to be 1600 mhz however that is a complete lie
<ali1234> also it doesn't work
<ali1234> i had to replace it after about a month when i figured out it was the reason my computer crasshed every day
<ali1234> though it does pass memtest
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> if it passes memtest it does work, perhaps the instability was elsewhere in the machine
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231046 reviews say it all :P
<ali1234> lol, no
<ali1234> well if you want it you can have it
<ali1234> i bought it as a pair
<Azelphur> sounds good, when I got everything sorted I'll give you his address, you can just ship it straight to him :D
<ali1234> the other one works just about as long as you don't overclock it
<Azelphur> yea I don't think we have any intentions of overclocking here
<ali1234> haha no, i don't want him to think i palmed off crap on him
<Azelphur> feel free to palm off better crap ;)
<ali1234> well you don't get the other one, it's in another machine
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I'm even willing to buy parts if you have any good spares floating about (or even any suggestions on where to get good parts)
<ali1234> i don't keep spares
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> ali1234 = Voldemort
<MartijnVdS> "KILL THE SPARE!"
<ali1234> i have a lo of althon cpus
<ali1234> and celerons
<MartijnVdS> I gave up on AMD
<ali1234> basically i don't have anything better than his current system
<ali1234> except for things i actually use
<Azelphur> hehe
<Nafallo> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
 * TheOpenSourcerer is now running 12.04 (A big move for me from 10.10). Seems pretty good so far.
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski and AlanBell
<mungojerry> tried to import some photos into shotwell...oh dear
<mungojerry> took 90 mins before OOM crash
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever managed to get OOM on a desktop
<oimon> :-\
<oimon> try shotwell :D
<BigRedS> always assumed there were safeguards or something in the way
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I think I did try shotwell once, but the CPU was the massive bottleneck for whatever it was doing
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> closest i have had, is the load becoming so high, that the system just ground to a halt.
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<oimon> u1 shows file sync is disabled. try to enable, it gets stuck when i click enable.
<oimon> is file sync the normal u1 feature?
 * oimon notices shutter now has a publish to ubuntu one feature
<czajkowski> oimon: yes, ask in #ubuntuone
<oimon> ah yes, i recall they are quite helpful
<czajkowski> oimon: yes I recall pointing out this channel to you on more than one ocassion
<oimon> :D
<oimon> well this is a good location to find recent 12.04 users (i hope)
<directhex> nah, we all run maverick
<oimon> i skipped that one
<oimon> and N & O..
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! *8OD
<ali1234> is quantal out yet?
<oimon> my ARM shares seem to have dropped 15% this week :(
<directhex> oimon, intel's x86 android phone is not terrible. arm are doomed!
<directhex> well, on the scale of 0 to android, anyway
<oimon> however they did go up 5% when rumours of a ipad 7' version came out
<oimon> ipad galaxy
<Myrtti> tralala
<MartijnVdS> good morning Myrtti
<Myrtti> I wonder where the Nanode is
<MartijnVdS> Eaten by nanotech bots
<Myrtti> mmm
<MartijnVdS> Grey goo imminent
<searcher> gá¸¿orning
<MartijnVdS> my terminal.. it's bleeding
<Myrtti> although I should design the circuit first
<oimon> discovered a fun desktop game called ri-li at the weekend. kept my son occupied watching while i played it
<searcher> I cant go online  wirelessly, on my Dell notebook
<MartijnVdS> searcher: does it show the network list"?
<MartijnVdS> searcher: what kind of Dell?
<Myrtti> oimon: ooh, sounds interesting
<searcher> yes  it shows the list, its dell vostro 1520
<MartijnVdS> searcher: and if you click on a network in the list, it asks for a password too?
<oimon> snake bores me, but snake on a train? yay
<MartijnVdS> searcher: (assuming the network is password-proteced)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Samuel L. Jackson? Snakes on a Train?
<oimon> sort of MartijnVdS
<searcher> it doesnt ask for passwd
<MartijnVdS> searcher: is the network protected?
<searcher> its running firestarter but thats all
<MartijnVdS> searcher: no I mean, is there a WPA or WEP key?
<searcher> sorry ,yes theres aWEP key
<MartijnVdS> Is changing it to WPA an option? WEP is getting very little testing because WPA is much more secure (and fewer and fewer people have WEP)
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea what the problem could be -- it should ask for the WEP password
<searcher> iÄºl just try that now, thanks
<oimon> see if dmesg or /var/log/syslog says anything
<ali1234> look for stuff about CRDA
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: nah, crda is about frequencies that are allowed
<ali1234> yeah it ca cause this problem
<MartijnVdS> look for stuff about network-manager and/or wpasupplicant
<ali1234> you select AP, enter password and then... it just won't work no matter what you do
<ali1234> until you change frequency of the AP
<ali1234> and it very often picks the wrong list of frequencies because it takes into account everything it can see and produces the most conservative possible list
<ali1234> but it only prevents tx so you can still see the AP, you just can't talk to it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: well if the AP broadcasts "I'm in Japan!", and your laptop agrees, you'll only get 3-4 channels
<MartijnVdS> because that's the most conservative set
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Japan
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if the AP says HK and the laptop says UK everything works except channel 13
<bigcalm> Gah, time to descale the kettle again
<ali1234> well everything you expect from the UK anyway
<oimon> i was thinking more along the lines of broadcom firmware...
<oimon> is it a broadcom?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 12 and 13
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and JP also has 14
<oimon> searcher, was it an upgrade or fresh install?
<searcher> Ichose wpa &WPA2 Personal under the wireless security tab, I entered a password , however it does not allow me to save that info
<searcher> it was a fresh install, but iá¸¿ dual booting with windows vista
<searcher> its a broadcom driver
<MartijnVdS> Just selecting WPA2 in Ubuntu won't help. The router/access point needs to have that set first :)
<searcher> yes the access point have the passwd that im trying to ener in WPA2
<oimon> searcher, if you type lspci | grep -i broadcom what output do you get?
<searcher> enter
<searcher> lspci gives an output of display options and PCI access options
<oimon> which model is it ? bcm4312?
<searcher> sorry i input only part of the grep command
<searcher> ill try again, one sec pl
<searcher> sorry, I cant paste the output to screen. itÅ on a different pc
<oimon> do you know the model of card? BCM4312?
<searcher> it doesnt give any Broad com output
<oimon> even typing lspci without any grep?
<oimon> i think i have a fix but need to confirm it's the card i think it is
<searcher> ok BCM4312
<oimon> http://askubuntu.com/questions/125529/wireless-doesnt-work-on-a-broadcom-bcm4312
<oimon> ^^ see link
<searcher> yes it is BCM4312
<oimon> hopefully that page should resolve your problem :D
<oimon> see the top answer with 5 votes
<oimon> 2 votes
<searcher> thanks oimon iÄºl try that link, thanks a lot
<oimon> no probs
<oimon> anyone in here using xchat? i get no scroll bar on the chat window?
<directhex> wfm
<oimon> 12.04 directhex ?
<directhex> yes
<oimon> i get thsi http://ubuntuone.com/1dL4FbcOgLvcu5r2Dd8MzR
<oimon> only scrollbar for users
<oimon> restarting..
<oimon> still not there :(..off to launchpad
<directhex> new user account?
<directhex> that's usually a good test for things
<oimon> i'll try on my laptop too
<oimon> bug 766581 seems related
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 766581 in xchat (Ubuntu) "overlay-scrollbars stop working in Ubuntu 11.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/766581
<ging> does anyone know if it is possible to switch the side of the launcher on unity?
<searcher> thanks to you guys for your input, I really appreciate it : )
<oimon> working now searcher ?
<czajkowski> ging: dont think so no
<oimon> is power pc now dead as a platform? i have a spare macmini which is a convenient size and noise for putting under the telly as an iplayer player - is flash still supported, or am i wasting my time?
<kjalil> hello, to manage the graphical effects on precise pangolin I believe I have to install the compizconfig-settings-manager package? or is it compizconfig-backend-gconf?
<gordonjcp> oimon: seems not
<zleap> kjalil, setttings manager i think
<oimon> gordonjcp, hmm. maybe get_iplayer is a solution, or maybe i shouldn't bother
<gordonjcp> oimon: you could use get_iplayer and transcode it
<oimon> :D
<zleap> if you want to enable desktop wall etc
<zleap> or the cube thing
<oimon> now i wonder if xbmc is supposed
<oimon> ^sed^rted
<Darael> kjalil: compizconfig-backend-gconf isn't a configurator; the configuration tool is ccsm
<kjalil> Darael: ah so compizconfig-settings-manager then, as there is no ccsm package
<Darael> kjalil: That's right.  The program is ccsm, the package is compizconfig-settings-manager.  Not sure why.
<kjalil> Darael: yes thanks, got it now
<kjalil> zleap: thanks
<zleap> np
<kjalil> I just need to change the sliding in/out animation when changing workspaces, it's a bit annoying
<zleap> compizconfig-settings-manager - Compiz configuration settings manager
<zleap> i did a quick apt-cache search for compiz settings
<zleap> an i rightin thinking the behaviour of the launcher is changing fo r12.04, right now as apps open full screen and havcing the close button near the trigger results in me getting the launcher when i want to close a program down or do things like go back in firefox
<kjalil> awesome, changing Desktop Wall -> Viewport Switching -> Wall Sliding Duration fixes it :-)
<Darael> Something I've wondered for a while: Is there a way of generating a minimal list of packages to install to get all packages currently installed on a system?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Silicene - the new Grahpene: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/127887-silicene-discovered-single-layer-silicon-that-could-beat-graphene-to-market
<Darael> It would have not to use information on whether a package was manually or automatically installed, because the idea would be to get as much as possible from dependencies on other things.
<directhex> ARGH
<directhex> am i the only one for whom the global menu shows menus in a random order on 12.04?
<directhex> e.e. View, Edit, File, in that order?
<AlanBell> it is just you
<jacobw> haha
<jacobw> sorry
<ali1234> i've never seen that but it wouldn't entirely shock me either :)
<AlanBell> in all applications directhex?
<directhex> mostly noticed it on evo
<AlanBell> doesn't totally shock me
<ali1234> i've never used that, maybe that's why
<AlanBell> there are a number of things where unordered collections are going to be less predictable than they used to be
<ali1234> if your code depends on the order of unnordered collections... well
 * TheOpenSourcerer (for once) knows what AlanBell is talking about ;-)
<ali1234> http://dangelog.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/hash-changes-in-qt-5/
<AlanBell> yeah, that kind of thing. It is being fixed in python and other places too.
<MartijnVdS> Perl has had a fix since forever
<czajkowski> uk list is rather noisy this week
<czajkowski> you;d think if people are having this musch issues with upgrades th'd have tested before hand :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok - what's the *right* way to install skype on a 12.04 64bit desktop?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: harass davmo2
 * MartijnVdS gives czajkowski a new keyboard
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: go to the software centre, type skype
<ali1234> that still doesn't work even today
<popey> "morning"
<AlanBell> skype is in the partner repo for precise, it should work
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not in mine it isn't.
<popey>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ precise/partner amd64 Packages
<czajkowski> popey: herrro
<popey> tis here
 * TheOpenSourcerer refreshes the list
<Darael> Is there an apt-cli equivalent for "aptitude markauto"?
<Darael> Never mind; found it.  apt-mark markauto.
<Myrtti> popey: planet.ubuntu-uk.org feeling poorly?
<AlanBell> how is SF popey?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have the Canonical Partners enabled in the Software sources. Closed and re-opened the Software Centre. Nowt. Opened a terminal and ran sudo apt-get update. Re-opened the software center. Still no skype.
<Darael> TheOpenSourcerer: Is app-install-data-partner installed?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno? wtf is that
<Darael> It's the package that makes the things from the partner repo show up in the Software Centre.
<TheOpenSourcerer> OMG - Skype finally appears in the list - after about 20minutes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher but I want to edit the settings for it. Where is the configuration for it? (doesn't seem to be in ~/.local )
<AlanBell> what settings?
<TheOpenSourcerer> the executable path , the name...
<AlanBell> /usr/share/applications/appname.desktop
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anything really.
<popey> AlanBell: warm
<TheOpenSourcerer> "So I "locked" a new icon to the launcher"
<TheOpenSourcerer> it's not a repo app
<ali1234> there is no tool for editing that under ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> and when I locked it I wasn't asked for sudo
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: I didn't ask for a too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> l
<ali1234> ok let me put it another way. there is no way to edit that in ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> no way to edit it? Really?
<TheOpenSourcerer> where is it stored?
<ali1234> probably somewhere in dconf
<Darael> TheOpenSourcerer: It's not under .local/share/applications?
<TheOpenSourcerer> no
<popey> bug 705007
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 705007 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705007
<ali1234> ^ see i told you :)
<popey> \o/ 1 year old
<AlanBell> in dconf-editor you can go to desktop/unity/launcher and see the list of favourites which is a bunch of .desktop files
<AlanBell> not entirely sure how non-desktop file things work
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - that sucks.
<AlanBell> probably creates local .desktop files somewhere
<ali1234> also what exactly do you want to edit? the backing .desktop file?
<TheOpenSourcerer> sabdfl "I really do not agree we want a "properties" view of a launcher. KISS!"
<ali1234> i doubt there even is one
<ali1234> since unity creates them on the fly
<TheOpenSourcerer> unity-launcher-editor
<ali1234> if there was one and yu edited it, it would probably create a second icon the next time you ran it
<AlanBell> .local/share/applications is where the automatically created ones go I think
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> just tried it
<ali1234> then don't
<ali1234> there is a dconf key
<ali1234> desktop/unity/launcher
<ali1234> which has "favourites"
<ali1234> but it only lists the real ones, not the automatic ones
<AlanBell> yes, I just said that :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh FFS
<ali1234> if i lock something that has a backing .desktop it appears instantly in that key
<ali1234> but the apps that are autodetected don't work that way
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I have to create a .desktop file
<ali1234> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> great.
<ali1234> and put it in the .local
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's helpful.
<ali1234> yeah i know right?
<ali1234> again, i've been complaining about this for a year
<popey> what is this desktop file for?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did that for one but thought when you "lock" something it must create something "similar" elsewhere...
<ali1234> well apparently it doesn't
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> It must, but it is very well hidden.
 * AlanBell is guessing multiple openerp GTK client launch options
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's one yes.
<popey> ahhh
<popey> yes, that was my use case
<AlanBell> so lots of .desktop files really pointing at different config files
<TheOpenSourcerer> different versions too.
<popey> multiple firefox browsers with command line options
<TheOpenSourcerer> indeed.
<ali1234> i hope you're not trying to make multiple icons for the same binary
<TheOpenSourcerer> I need it for Thunderbird and various profiles I have for extension development
<ali1234> because that doesn't work *at all*
<ali1234> you can do it with the quicklists though and just one icon
<AlanBell> yeah that is going to get totaly confused with the bamf stuff
<ali1234> bamf has a hard enough time telling java applications apart
<AlanBell> true, that is a much better way to do it, with quicklists in the .desktop file
<ali1234> you still need a .desktop though
<ali1234> in the end all of these problems are caused because docks are a bad design choice
<AlanBell> yeah, comes down to copying daft stuff from mac os X
<AlanBell> http://mhall119.com/2012/02/contributing-to-unity-for-non-developers-quicklists/
<popey> Myrtti: planet fixed
<Myrtti> thankies â¥
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're Captain Planet? :)
 * popey swooshes
<ahayzen> \me is installing XP in KVM and doesn't remember there being background music while using the setup wizard before =-O
<MartijnVdS> soothing music?
<ahayzen> yeah weird
<ahayzen> never noticed that before when installing XP
<oimon> it's forced on you
<Darael> Frankly a number of UI conventions are suboptimal, and docks are not (in my somewhat arrogant opinion) the worst of them.  For example, why not use ring-shaped menus? (yes, yes, one can - with great effort - get such a thing working).
<ahayzen> its scary
<oimon> i decided to annoy people in my office by booting up 5 new laptops , and pressing space (to accept terms) at slightly different interval
<oimon> cue pan pipes out of sync
<oimon> unmuteable
<ahayzen> yh lol
<ali1234> dock is by far the worst and the easiest to fix
<ali1234> just go back to the seperate launcher menu and window lists that we've had since forever
<ahayzen> yey the music is over :)
<ali1234> and round menus would be preferable to the hud
<AlanBell> Darael: funnily enough ring shaped menus are something that could be done now that dbusmenu is there, the global menu data could be presented in several ways
<Darael> Round menus are just common sense, considering Fitts' Law.
<ali1234> circles are not efficient for displaying a list it words though
<daubers> AlanBell: You where right re: plus.net
<Darael> Assuming you allow a slight motion to select an option, of course.  Making people go all the way out would defeat the point.
<oimon> what's the mobile internet on o2/giffgaff like?
<AlanBell> they would be more findable and browseable than the hidden global menu
<oimon> and can you transfer your number to giffgaff?
<AlanBell> daubers: oh good!
<Darael> oimon: To the latter, yes.  to the former, I don't know.
<ali1234> circular menus could only really replace existing context menus though
<daubers> AlanBell: Just need to get the keys then can get them to move stuff
<daubers> also get to keep my static IP :)
<ali1234> http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/circular-application-menu-Screenshot-35967.html
<ali1234> that looks kind of good. i mean it *looks* good. it's probably horrible to use with all the unlabelled icons
<Darael> ali1234: I don't see why.  To do more, one would need keyboard-modifiers or more than three mouse buttons, yes, but there's no reason it couldn't work.
<oimon> right now i'm comparing 3 and giffgaff on price, but no idea on general reception
<oimon> loooks like i'll have to get some sim cards and play
<Darael> ali1234: /That/'s easy to solve:  Have the name of what you're hovering over show up in the middle.  Provides explorability without the ugliness of labels floating beneath them.
<ali1234> except the "middle" is too small to fit any more than about 4 letters
<ali1234> that's what i meant about circles being innefficient
<Darael> Move the icons further apart and have a small motion into a "slice" highlight it, then.
<ali1234> and besides fitt's law is stupid and needs to be heavily debunked
<ali1234> apart from anything else making everything tiny just makes it harder to click on
<Darael> ali1234: Fitt's Law /agrees/ with that.
<Darael> ali1234: Fitt's Law says that larger things are easier to hit, and closer things are easier to hit.
<ali1234> yeah, the latter isnn't true
<ali1234> larger things are easier. distance makes no difference at all
<ali1234> fitt's law seems to be used as a justification for making everything smaller, because smaller means less mouse movement
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmmm - I had eclipse open on one desktop. I minimised it. Now I can't find it. If I click on my launcher icon, it tries to start another instance and fails because there is one already running... Eclipse is not from the repos BTW.
<ali1234> so those two rules are in direct conflict at the very least, and it comes down to which you think is more important
<Darael> ali1234: Trivially, the point currently under the cursor is the easiest thing to hit.
<TheOpenSourcerer> How can I find my minimised app.
<TheOpenSourcerer> ALT+TAB doesn't show it.
<ali1234> the point under the cursor can be considered to be infinite in size though
<ali1234> since you literally can't miss it no matter how you move the mouse
<Darael> ali1234: I forget the phrasing, but I'm reasonably sure it /ought/ to emphasise size.  That's why the screen edges and corners are such prime real-estate.
<ali1234> screen edges are turning into more of a ghetto :/
<Darael> ali1234: Except that things following the cursor are Really Annoying, so it's better to spawn them beneath it and let people move them.
<ali1234> where everything that designers don't know how to handle just gets dumped
<TheOpenSourcerer>  How can I find my minimised app?
<Darael> They /are/, which is a shame.  They're the easiest places to put things.
<ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: stop using unity
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah.
<ali1234> two icons for the same app is a common problem caused by the whole idea of bamf being made of fail
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have only been using it for 12hrs and already have some issues. All to do with personalisation.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Dean Sas] So long and thanks for all the fish - http://deansas.org/blog/2012/04/28/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Translation Help Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/28/translation-help-needed/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Miia Ranta] Viglen MPC-L from Xubuntu 10.04 LTS to Debian stable - http://myrtti.fi/blog/2012/04/30/viglen-mpc-l-from-xubuntu-10-04-lts-to-debian-stable/
<Myrtti> :-)
<Myrtti> \o/
<AlanBell> minimised apps should be in alt-tab and should come back when clicking on the launcher icon :/
<ali1234> AlanBell: they should, yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> this does not.
<ali1234> except that bamf can't handle java
<AlanBell> ah right :/
<ali1234> and it thinks all java apps are the same and/or completely unique
<AlanBell> that isn't good
<ali1234> so when you click on the eclipse icon
<ali1234> it makes a second icon for the actually running copy of eclipse
<ali1234> click it again and it makes another one etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a .desktop for my eclipse install.
<daubers> ali1234: I don't get that problem....
<ali1234> this doesn't happen with repo eclipse because everything in the repos has been specially patched by thousands of slaves to prevent this from happening
<ali1234> but any java app you run that isn't in the repos is likely to have this issue
<TheOpenSourcerer> But you get screwed up when you try to update eclipse or your addons from the eclipse updater
<Darael> Slaves?  Nah, slaves need feeding, they wouldn't use /slaves/.
<ali1234> probably yes
<ali1234> bug 757991
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 757991 in unity (Ubuntu) "java applications a double icon appears " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757991
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did have it installed from the repo but it barfed when I tried to update some stuff which the package manager wouldn't allow. I guess I need to run eclipse as root to do that ;-)
<daubers> Hmm.... I use a locally installed copy of eclipse and don't get that double icon thing....
<ali1234> incidentally, writing a .desktop file won't fix this
<ali1234> it doesn't make any difference at all in fact
<TheOpenSourcerer> But anyway - I have an instance of eclipse running on a workspace. But I can't now restore it. Any way to bring it back?
<ali1234> this is once again a side effect of having a dock which has to guess which windows belong to which applications... that's the entirity of what bamf does
<ali1234> click the launcher icon
<AlanBell> well you could try "unity --replace &" which will do scary stuff, and hopefully come back with all your windows running (save things in other applications before doing this)
<ali1234> the second one
<ali1234> if there isn't any icon, then no, it's gone forever
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: I only have the one laucher icon
<ali1234> and it doesn't have an arrow next to it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I click that it tried to start a new instance of eclipse.
<TheOpenSourcerer> no
<ali1234> are you sure it didn't just crash when you minimized it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> No.
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, tried alt-tabbing on every desktop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> But when eclipse starts it coughs because it is already running.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes
<oimon> ps -ef | grep -i eclipse?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes - it is running
 * AlanBell bets on unity --replace & bringing it back
<oimon> run an instance of docky - that will show all windows :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> what is "docky"?
<oimon> another dock
<oimon> when started, it will show all running apps on the dock
<AlanBell> and the docky author is on the unity team
<oimon> docky works better than unity
<TheOpenSourcerer> that was even more weird...
<ali1234> you might be able to get it back if you can find the window id
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Id managed to find eclipse and added the arrow to the launcher. BUt the app was completely transparent!
<oimon> ah yes, that happens sometimes
<oimon> i've seen that with other apps
<AlanBell> odd
<oimon> unity also says "waiting to install" on an app i've installed
<TheOpenSourcerer> At least I could close it now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Man - and this is an LTS?
<ali1234> do wmctrl -l
<ali1234> find the window
<brobostigon> ok, what am i missing when making a virtualhost inside apache, put the virtualhost files in sites-available and sites-enabled, then a2ensite newhost, then restarted apache, am i misssing something?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: it is the first release of unity that is ready for people to start testing :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes.
<AlanBell> brobostigon: don't put it in site-enabled
<TheOpenSourcerer> I should probably reboot now. Thunderbird has also gone invisible
<AlanBell> brobostigon: a2ensite should create the symlink in enabled to available
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, let me retry, one moment, ah, didnt think about that.
<ali1234> i always make the symlinks by hand :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that works too (or putting the files there works too) but doing both is probably unwise
<soulnafein> hello, anyone here had to upgrade the kernel to 3.3.2 in order to fix the graphical glitch (e.g. https://twitter.com/#!/soulnafein/status/195944650765385728/photo/1/large)
<ali1234> btw, unity --replace will crash you out to the login screen about 50% of the time if my experience is typical
<AlanBell> not had that much, but sometimes you have no window decoration and no ability to focus on anything to fix it
<oimon> my machine just froze hard when clicking on the launcher. not cool
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, that didnt work, any further ideas?
<ali1234> when that happens i switch to virtual console and metacity --replace
<AlanBell> brobostigon: your vitualhost file is probably wrong in some way
<brobostigon> AlanBell: let me pastebinit,
<ali1234> you need a line in the main apache config to enable vhosts
<ali1234> let me check my notes
<brobostigon> AlanBell: http://pastebin.com/dHKTEvbv
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have a virtualhost on said server already, that works, so already have that enabled.
<ali1234> yeah you need to do something to allow more than one
<ali1234> or maybe not any more hmm
<ali1234> why do you think it doesn't work?
<ali1234> you get the wrong site?
<ali1234> or an error?
<popey> soulnafein: thats pretty
<soulnafein> popey, :D
<brobostigon> as far as i can see, i have basically copied the other virtualhost, with the correct adaptions, so i dont see what is wrong.
<ali1234> do you have UseCanonicalName Off anywhere?
<soulnafein> popey, this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir3-2/Pangolin suggested to upgrade to kernel 3.3.2
<brobostigon> ali1234: let me look,
<ali1234> possibly in _default_.conf
<soulnafein> popey, that solved the problem but now I would like to install bcmwl-kernel-source but it doesn't compile with 3.3.2 :'(
<popey> â¹
<brobostigon> ali1234: i dont see that config option, in apaches config.
<soulnafein> popey, how can I know which wireless driver am I using?
<ali1234> i think that's the line you need for it to work
<popey> soulnafein: nm-tool will tell you
<brobostigon> ali1234: however why does my other virtualhost, on that server work?
<soulnafein> popey, 'cause this bastard works on the wireless at home but not with the one in my friend's house :(
<popey> â¹
<ali1234> brobostigon: becuase it is using the canonical name
<brobostigon> ali1234: so what do i add?
<ali1234> UseCanonicalName Off
<brobostigon> ok,  let me try,
<soulnafein> popey, thank. It seems like I'm using brcmsmac
<ali1234> apparently it is off by default?
<ali1234> it's also possible your other vhost doesn't work and just appears to work for various reasons :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: same result, no change.
<ali1234> what exactly is happening?
<brobostigon> ali1234: i am getting chrome cannot find etc, errors when i try the url.
<ali1234> meaning what?
<ali1234> 404?
<ali1234> dns error?
<ali1234> 403?
<popey> brobostigon: use wget, you get real error messages
<brobostigon> popey: one moment,
<ali1234> could be incorrect permissions on the docroot
<popey> could be lots of things :D
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> web hosting is fun
<brobostigon> Resolving stats.taylorworld.me.uk... failed: Name or service not known.
<brobostigon> wget: unable to resolve host address `stats.taylorworld.me.uk'
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> that's a dns error
<ali1234> nothing to do with apache
<brobostigon> ok.
<ali1234> you probably didn't enable wildcards
<ali1234> or forgot to add the stats subdomain to you dns config
<ali1234> i can guess what your next question will be...
<popey> bacon?
<ali1234> how to forward all subdomains except stats to the main website :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: dns config? zone file, or server end?
<popey> oh, not that then
<ali1234> zone file
<brobostigon> ali1234: ther is no entry there, for the other virtualhost.
<ali1234> btw, the answer o your next question is modrewrite :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: in the virtualhost config?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> in the dns configuration for your domain name
<ali1234> also dns changes take a while to propagate
<ali1234> if you just added the subdomain it will take a while to actually be visible
<ali1234> depends on ttl... you should be able to change that too
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, let me lok through, minute.
<ali1234> who is your dns provider?
<ali1234> is it same as web host?
<brobostigon> ali1234: gandi, i just checked dns entries, and they look right. my webhost, is my vps, on bitfolk.
<ali1234> i use gandi :)
<ali1234> i can show you how to write the zone file cos i spent a weekend figuring it out
<ali1234> you need to add a wildcard entry basically
<brobostigon> ali1234: i just checked an A and AAAA entry, pointing to stats, with my servers ip.
<ali1234> well you might need to wait several hours for that to go through
<brobostigon> i set the ttl to 20minutes, on both.
<ali1234> that change is subject to the old ttl
<brobostigon> thats was how i set the ttl, originally.
<brobostigon> i havent changed it.
<ali1234> your dns cache might be out of date
<ali1234> stats resolves for me
<ali1234> hmm wait no it doesn't
<ali1234> it resolves but no ip
<brobostigon> probebly, yes, i think coffee time, and wait.
<ali1234> nope, you've configured it wrong
<ali1234> this is what mine looks like
<ali1234> * 300 IN CNAME example.com.
<ali1234> ... irrelevant stuff ...
<brobostigon> it looks the same here, compared to the other entry.
<ali1234> @ 300 IN A 1.2.3.4
<Laney> students come back â university internet goes down the tubes
<Laney> hmmmmmm
<directhex> porn.
<directhex> the tubes are clogged with porn
<Darael> QoS thy own traffic to much higher priority?
<bigcalm> Using an 8 characters from a-z 0-9, how many possible combinations are there?
<jandro> Hi. I know this question is a bit off topic, but could anyone recommend me about a good UK based DNS registrar? thanks
<directhex> bigcalm, a whole bunch
<bigcalm> 36 chars to pick from
<directhex> bigcalm, 8 characters, or 1-8?
<Laney> yes, because I have the ability to QoS traffic at the university level
<bigcalm> directhex: a string will always be 8 chars long
<directhex> bigcalm, 36^8 then?
<bigcalm> Hopefully that'll be enough
<Oli> Is the GB archive mirror going slower than expected (even allowing for the upgrade rush) for anyone else? I've only been getting 50-70KB/s for a while now and it's driving me loopy.
<bigcalm> Writing a transaction interface. Asked the client how they wanted transaction references to be generated. "Random. 8 characters, alpha and numeric intermixed"
<Oli> Hmm, just did a whois on its IP and the internet thinks gb.archive.ubuntu.org lives in Barcelona. Very local.
<directhex> deb http://mirror.krystal.co.uk/ubuntu/ precise main universe restricted multiverse
<directhex> Oli, ^^
<jpds> Oli: It doesn't.
<oimon> there's a button you can press in ubuntu to find the fastest mirror
<bigcalm> Just wondering how many transactions can be made before they run out of references numbers
<ali1234> 2.8 trillion
<Oli> directhex: thanks
<jpds> Oli: You want: gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> ali1234: good to know :)
<bigcalm> ali1234: are you basing a billion on a million million or a thousand million?
<oimon> ah, cannot right click on my unity launcher..bugs ahoy atm
<Darael> jandro: I've had good experiences with http://goscomb.net if it's domain registration thou'rt after, or for DNS hosting, Hurricane Electric have a very good free service (even though they aren't UK-based).
<ali1234> a thousand million
<Oli> jpds: Oh my bad - pinged the wrong address, .com is returning datahop
<bigcalm> Is a trillion a thousand billion then?
<ali1234> yes
<Darael> bigcalm: That's how the short scale works, yes.
<ali1234> 2,821,109,907,456 is the actual number
<bigcalm> Right, they have enough possible reference numbers then
<Darael> bigcalm: I'm aware it's silly.  Clearly we should be working in hundreds, thousands, lakhs, and crore.
<bigcalm> Darael: what are the last two?
<ali1234> crore is indian
<Darael> bigcalm: Indian numbering.  One lakh is a hundred thousand, one crore is a hundred lakh.
<bigcalm> I see
<jandro> Darael: thanks, i'll check it out
<Darael> It's silly too.  A crore is written 1,00,00,000.
<bigcalm> That is silly
<ali1234> they don't have a word for million, like we don't have a word for 10,000
<Darael> All numbering systems are silly in some way or other.
<ali1234> unless i am mistaken
<bigcalm> :)
<Darael> ali1234: In fairness, they don't have a word for 10,000 either.
<ali1234> considering they invented 0, i'll give them a pass
<Darael> But that is correct.  One million is just ten lakh.
<oimon> does anyone have issues in thunderbird , clicking a message does not always show the message in preview pane? (usually when attachments?)
<DJones> Interesting, MS invested $300M in B&N Nook e-books, yesterday they were talking about B&N selling off the nook to a new company
<oimon> DJones, :-\
<oimon> B&N were the ones who called out MS on the fake patents
<bigcalm> oimon: wfm
<oimon> bigcalm, wfm some of the time, not always...
<bigcalm> I've yet to see it not work
<Myrtti> so I see the Pirate Bay block is extending from Finland to UK now
<oimon> i've never visited that site
<oimon> what is it, a search engine for pirated videos and games?
<Myrtti> torrent searchh
<Myrtti> -h
<oimon> i wonder how much of it is trojan infested
<Darael> I always preferred isohunt, myself.
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: wfm
<Myrtti> well I'm sure it will for a while
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17894176
<ali1234> they gonna block tor?
<ali1234> good luck with that
<Darael> Wasn't there a browser plugin to bypass DNS blocks?
<oimon> isn't tor incredibly slow?
<ali1234> yes but magnet links are like 1kb
<oimon> oic
<Oli> Darael: Is it just a DNS block? Surely OpenDNS, Google DNS, etc will keep on working then
<Darael> Well, a routing block would be hideously hard to set up, so surely it'd have to be.  And yes, I'd assume they would.  What a "shame".
<bigcalm> I've had to drop I, O, 1 and 0. Reduces the number of possible transaction references :(
<bigcalm> Now 34^8
<bigcalm> Erm, 32^8
<MartijnVdS> powers of 2!
<bigcalm> That does make it a little nicer :)
<bigcalm> 36^8 = 2 821 109 907 456, 34^8 = 1 785 793 904 896.
<bigcalm> A loss of 1 035 316 002 560 possible transaction reference
<bigcalm> Grrr
<bigcalm> Keep doing 34 not 32
<bigcalm> (36^8) - (32^8) = 1 721 598 279 680
<bigcalm> And now I need to cater for foul language
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Have been told to park it :)
<zleap> what would be a good partition size for a 160 gb hard disk  100 for /  50 for /home and 10 for swap (does that sound reasonable)
<Darael> Depends.  Personally I'd have /home larger than /, because in my experience more data ends up in there.
<Darael> As for 10 for swap, I see few use-cases requiring that much.  Hibernation in systems with large amounts of RAM, perhaps?
<Myrtti> I've never seen / go beyond 20GB
<Myrtti> (in normal desktop use)
<Myrtti> even depends of course on what you install, if you load it with several games with huge data files, then of course it's possible to fill it...
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: arguably crap like that should go into something like /home/common
<Myrtti> indeed
<Myrtti> or /var or some other funky place
<gordonjcp> but I guess that's what /usr/share is meant to be
<Myrtti> or make /usr/share a separate partition
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> but that's a bit messy
<gaz1069> hey all
<BigRedS> Am I g'morning!
<BigRedS> er. just "g'morning!"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have noticed that if I am not in the same workspace as thunderbird then the notification doesn't appear. Seems a bit useless that. Anywhere I can configure this? A new 12.04 user.
<Guest79689> hi all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why doesn't the [freenode] room list appear in Empathy?
<Guest79689> hmmm, went to have a look but I don't have Empathy.  I must have uninstalled it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah - it isn't actually supposed to work> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-idle/+bug/426795
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 426795 in telepathy-idle (Ubuntu) "empathy can't get roomlist (from irc.freenode.net)" [Low,Triaged]
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why don't they just remove the label? Would make more sense.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pidgin worked though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<Guest79689> urgh, that's boring. I use XChat which w
<Guest79689> *works really well
<BigRedS> I found that the fix for most empathy related problems is to go back to pidgin
<Darael> Frankly, I just use irssi for IRC and Psi+ for XMPP, and that's all I need.  MSN and Yahoo can go and die in a fire, and Google Talk will talk to the few people I know who use AIM.
<Guest79689> I've got a massive problem I'm trying to sort out.  Reinstalled my laptop not realising I'd get stuck with this dammed useless unity desktop, with no obvious way of getting rid of it. :(
<Guest79689> ooo, didn't know google talk worked with AIM
<brobostigon> Guest79689: simplest would be to install something else, and then choose on login.
<Azelphur> Operation buy the poor wayland developer a PC is going well, up to $170 :D
<Azelphur> Can probably get him a nice low end AMD rig now
<BigRedS> Guest79689: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop gets you something that looks like an old gnome desktop
<BigRedS> if you log out and then choose it on login
<BigRedS> alternatively, could just try unity for a bit and see if you can get used to it
<Guest79689> tried that, the unity settings seem to affect other desktops, so the system menu is missing, restart is missine. etc.
<Darael> Mhm, quite happily.  I forget what the necessary domain is, but it works fine.  Unfortunately, AOL's gateway isn't open, so it will only work with GTalk accounts, but it /does/ work.
<Darael> Guest79689: There's a fair number of other choices to Unity.  Most of them either are close enough to gnome2 that the differences are really annoying or have something of a learning curve.
<Darael> Guest79689: The missing menus can be fixed by a conf setting, although I'm afraid I forget where it is.  I don't know about the restart option.
<BigRedS> what was that bug that means that if you ask alt+F2 for what you want it can't find it?
<BigRedS> AlanBell filed it IIRC :) I thought I'd subscribed, but I can't find it
<AlanBell> bug 842108
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 842108 in unity-lens-applications (Ubuntu) "run command (alt+F2): results do not contain the exact match" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842108
<BigRedS> ta!
<AlanBell> !info wayland
<lubotu3> Package wayland does not exist in precise
<Azelphur> AlanBell: wayland is the replacement for X, pretty much the future of the Linux desktop :p
<Azelphur> he's developing for it on a P4 2.8ghz :x
<BigRedS> Another future of the Linux desktop? :)
<Azelphur> no, wayland actually is the replacement for X
<BigRedS> yeah, I know
<Azelphur> hehe
<BigRedS> I just have trouble taking seriously any prophecy involving the term 'the linux desktop'
<Azelphur> so yea, I've been organising some donations and am trying to get him a better PC :D
<Azelphur> tis going pretty well, got enough money for a low end AMD rig now
<BigRedS> alt-tab, by default, is still almost exactly as infuriating as it was the first time I tried it in Unity
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, this is probably not default...
<BigRedS> Is there a 'reset unity to defaults' button?
<BigRedS> oh, apparently that's what   unity --reset    is for
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: command-line
 * BigRedS stops thinking through the keyboard
<AlanBell> Azelphur: yeah, I am aware of wayland, it is kind of in precise a bit, but GTK isn't compiled right for it
<AlanBell> hopefully it should work nice in Quantal
<MartijnVdS> Is there a xorg-wayland yet?
<AlanBell> does this look broken: https://help.ubuntu.com/community
<MartijnVdS> So you can run "legacy" apps as well?
<AlanBell> !info weston
<lubotu3> weston (source: weston): reference implementation of a wayland compositor. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.85.0-1build1 (precise), package size 178 kB, installed size 437 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<ali1234> afaik wayland doesn't yet have a "real" (ie functional) window manager or any way to run x11 apps
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I hear it's coming along
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: cool
<Azelphur> and said developer is working on "compiz for wayland"
<ali1234> it's still at the level where anything you run with it runs without a window border or any way to resize or move windows around
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe in this LTS-to-LTS cycle then :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 2 more years should be enough for something basic
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, he says in 2 years it'll be up and running
<BigRedS> AlanBell: not really; what looks wrong to you?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: no CSS, the theme is all broken
<MartijnVdS> Looks fine here
<BigRedS> nah, looks fine to me
<AlanBell> ah, broken for people who are logged in
 * AlanBell sets theme to default
<ali1234> 2 years is probably about right. then another 2 years to port all the software to it
<Azelphur> ali1234: I made the build a lot better, got more donations than I thought I would :D
<ali1234> and once that is done companies like nvidia will start to think about writing drivers for it
<Azelphur> AMD Athlon II X3 455 3.3Ghz Triple core, 4GB DDR3 1333 (2x2)
<Azelphur> and a motherboard to go with \o/
<ali1234> 4GB is not enough
<Azelphur> he has 1GB atm
<ali1234> for developing you need at least 8GB
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> no wonder it's not done yet
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<MartijnVdS> Triple core is weird
<Azelphur> already hit the budget wall and he doesn't have a PSU yet, so don't think another 4GB of RAM is on the tables
<AlanBell> are you saying wayland is being developed by one person who can't afford a computer?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I did some googling and it seemed to be popular in budget build, benches about the same as a low end i3
<Azelphur> AlanBell: no, I'm saying one of the developers, who also happens to be a really nice guy that you've probably heard of (soreau) is running on old crap
<Azelphur> and baring in mind all the cool stuff he does for the community (git scripts, countless bugfixes in compiz and wayland, and now wayland development), deserves better :D
<AlanBell> ok, and yes soreau is nice
<MartijnVdS> soreau?
<Azelphur> yea, soreau is really cool, pretty much everyone has heard of him, he's helped me loads of times too
<AlanBell> but there is a funded team somewhere is there?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not sure, I don't think so
<Azelphur> http://collabedit.com/sw6va is the build I have set up atm, that just about scrapes inside budget
<Azelphur> :D
<MartijnVdS> woo "G-SKILL"  memory
<Azelphur> nothing wrong with G.Skill :P
<MartijnVdS> except when you need it to work :P
<MartijnVdS> it sounds like an overclocker's brand.. like OCZ or GeIL
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Also.. you want to buy intel, because intel gpus are the only ones with proper working free drivers
<ali1234> i already said all these things this morning
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: he says that the open drivers are fine
<Azelphur> the mobo has onboard AMD and someone is donating an nvidia, so he can test on both :D
<MartijnVdS> And intel :(
<ali1234> i can save you all the effort and just tell you they don't...
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: feel free to suggest a mobo :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?model=h61m-vs ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: on newegg it says that board doesn't have an onboard gpu
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's because it's in the CPU
<MartijnVdS> Supports IntelÂ® HD Graphics 2000/3000
<MartijnVdS> according to asrock.com
<Azelphur> oh I see, you get an i3 and drop it in there?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't do HDMI though
<MartijnVdS> that's the H61M-HVS
<MartijnVdS> (which is â¬5 more expensive here in .nl)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: thing is i3 is like twice as much, don't have the cash for it :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't get Ivy Bridge, get Sandy Bridge
<MartijnVdS> intel introduced new CPUs last week
<MartijnVdS> old ones are cheap :)
<Azelphur> yes, the i3-2120 is the cheapest on newegg at $124.99
<Azelphur> current cpu is $79.99, so it puts us $45 over budget
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Celeron G530
<MartijnVdS> is the cheapest I can find
<Azelphur> ah, that looks more like the business
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: tweakers.net/pricewatch has amazing "find a part" options :)
<Azelphur> woo, new budget is $270 :D
<ali1234> hey
<ali1234> i just thought of something
<Azelphur> yea?
<ali1234> i have some amazon gift balance
<ali1234> in USA
<ali1234> i can't use it
<Azelphur> ali1234: cool, I can probably trade that on -otc for paypal usd or even buy a part off amazon
<Azelphur> send it over :D
<ali1234> i can't send it over
<Azelphur> aww :<
<ali1234> i can't do anything except spend it on amazon
<Azelphur> oh yea, of course
<Azelphur> how much you got on there?
<ali1234> about $15-20 i think
<ali1234> abut enough to cover shipping from USA to UK
<Azelphur> hehe, perhaps we'll get the PSU off amazon
<Myrtti> ali1234: use on kickstarter
<Myrtti> :-P
 * Myrtti backed http://www.geekmom.com/2012/04/wollstonecraft-kickstarter-steampunk-book-for-geekgirls/
<ali1234> kickstarter sucks
<ali1234> also, not possible
<Myrtti> d'awww.
<ali1234> it can only be redeemed on amazon.com
<ali1234> if it was usable with amazon payments i could just send it to my UK account
 * jacobw thinks about pxe booting a preseed 
<gordonjcp> hrmm
<gordonjcp> why is there a process called "whoopsie" running?
<gordonjcp> surely that's not very ubuntu, whatever it is
<gordonjcp> calling a process after an offensive term for a homosexual
<jacobw> i was not aware of that :|
<DJones> Me neither, I thought it was knock down stuff in a supermarket, thats the only time I've heard the term
<DJones> But its the Ubuntu crash databas submission daemon
<AlanBell> !info whoopsie-daisy
<lubotu3> Package whoopsie-daisy does not exist in precise
<AlanBell> !info whoopsie
<lubotu3> whoopsie (source: whoopsie-daisy): Ubuntu crash database submission daemon. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.32 (precise), package size 25 kB, installed size 107 kB
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://collabedit.com/sw6va sound like a good build? :D
<ali1234> 600W PSU is overkill
<ali1234> also where are the hard drives?
<Azelphur> yea, was thinking of getting a 500W off amazon with your voucher
<Azelphur> he has a 1TB hdd in his current box, figured it didn't need replacing.
<Nafallo> 600W PSU is needed in some machines...
<Azelphur> ali1234: I might try and get a case too
<Azelphur> Nafallo: my desktop has 1200 :P
<ali1234> mine has 400W PSU
<Nafallo> Azelphur: does it need it?
<ali1234> it is a quad core, two hard drives, 16GB, and nvidia 240
<Azelphur> Nafallo: i7 clocked through the roof, GTX 570, 8800GT, probably getting another 2 GPUs soon, 2 SATA2 1 SSD, 14 case fans, 3 x 4GB ram
<ali1234> the peak current draw when i max out everything is 200W at the wall
<Azelphur> ali1234: perhaps I shouldd rop to a 430W PSU then
<Azelphur> only $6 difference
<dr_balor> czajkowski: I see blue jerseys in the Cup final :)
<czajkowski> dr_balor: indeed. whats with the nick
<czajkowski> dear gods has it happened
<czajkowski> are you finaly finished studying
<oimon1> anyone know why the login screen isn't showing the desktop backgrounds as it should?
<oimon1> (12.04)
<AlanBell> are they standard backgrounds
<oimon1> no AlanBell
<oimon1> do i need to chmod it 777 ?
<AlanBell> do you have encrypted home?
<oimon1> not that i know of...how to check?
<BigRedS> oimon1: in general, no
<BigRedS> nothing needs to be 777
<oimon1> no, /home doesn't look encrypted
<oimon1> couldn't find anything on askubuntu on initial search
<Nafallo> mount
<Nafallo> if it has /home/$USERNAME/.Private mounted as type ecryptfs, you've got encrypted home
<oimon1> nope, not encrypted
<oimon1> weird. no one else got this behaviour then?
<Nafallo> the rest of us run encrypted... ;-)
<oimon1> i don't suppose anyone runs picasa here either?
<oimon1> have an issue where it doesn't work well with the launcher
<AlanBell> oimon1: what are the permissions on the file?
<AlanBell> I would think it would need o+r
<oimon1> 775
<AlanBell> octal permissions need to die in a fire, but yeah, that should be enough
<oimon1> i saw something on OMGUbuntu:I actually found on my own 12.04 install that only wallpapers which are in /usr/share/backgrounds or ~/Pictures will display. At first I didn't think this new feature was working for me because I keep my stuff organized and put all my wallpapers in a folder I created (~/Pictures/Wallpapers).
<Nafallo> they so don't need to die at all
<oimon1> gonna try that if i can find the picture again...
<Nafallo> they are very handy
<oimon1> back in a mo
<oimon1> not sure if solaris allowed anything else back in the day
<AlanBell> Nafallo: they are a marginally useful shortcut for people who know what they mean - and they propagate ignorance
<Nafallo> AlanBell: I don't agree.
<Nafallo> I've got more problem with ugoa
<oimon1> ok , that advice from OMG works
<oimon1> the pics need to be in top level of Pictures folder
<oimon1> weird
<oimon1> also gonna remove the dots. http://askubuntu.com/questions/72620/how-do-i-remove-the-dots-from-the-lightdm-greeter/121620#121620
<oimon1> btw i'm not sure octal permissions are any more/less obvious than ugo
<oimon1> i always forget the o bit
<oimon1> and how would you describe it succinctly?
<oimon1> but i digress. thanks for the moral support :D
<diplo> evening all
<AlanBell> user group and other
<AlanBell> with read write and execute
<zleap> AlanBell, does this help from my website  (file permission table) ?
<dr_balor> czajkowski: oh yeah.  I haz PhD
<dr_balor> czajkowski: and I'm registered as balor in work, so I needed another nick
<czajkowski> dr balor!
<czajkowski> congrats
<dr_balor> czajkowski: thanks
<Monotoko> hey guys.. just let me start by saying I like Unity, I will be using it as primary and I don't want to start a flame war... I just noticed that wine doesn't integrate all that well and wanted xfce for my wine applications, is there any repercussions from installing xfce as well? Will it break Unity?
<bigcalm> Monotoko: it's very difficult to start a flame war in here. We're all far too nice
<Monotoko> bigcalm, I don't know.. I'm subscribed to the mailing list ;)
<bigcalm> Monotoko: Unity shouldn't be affected by installing xubuntu-desktop. But if in doubt, install on a VM 1st
<bigcalm> Monotoko: we're much more friendly in here :)
<Monotoko> excellent :)
 * Monotoko pulls up a bed
<Monotoko> staying here a while I think c:
<DJones> Monotoko: don't know about xfce, i've got a machine with standard Ubuntu installed, which I've added lxde without any issues
<DJones> i use that as the default, it's just a select option at the login screen
<bigcalm> Monotoko: if you do install xfce4, install the xubuntu-desktop package otherwise you'll have hard time (in my experience any way)
<Monotoko> hmm, gonna go google lxde and see which I prefer I think
<DJones> !lubuntu
<lubotu3> lubuntu is Ubuntu with LXDE instead of !GNOME as desktop environment, which makes it extremely lightweight. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu - /join #lubuntu for lubuntu support.
<Monotoko> and that's just lubuntu-desktop?
<bigcalm> !lubuntu-desktop
<lubotu3> k/ed/x/l/ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage. It depends upon other packages and brings them in; you can safely remove it, but it is recommended that you re-install it when upgrading.
<Monotoko> cheers :)
<bigcalm> :)
<Monotoko> 362mb... not bad
<diplo> Anyone fancy helping me out with suggestions in some html ?
<bigcalm> !ask | diplo
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<diplo> Not a ubuntu question :)
<bigcalm> It's quiet in here :)
<diplo> jej
<DJones> bigcalm: out of interest, on your Xoom, do you use connectbot for irssi? I've started using "irssi connectbot" and it's a lot easier with so many preconfigured control keys
<bigcalm> !ask > foo
<diplo> heh*
<Azelphur> bigcalm: funny part is foo is actually a person
<diplo> So... don't ask why but I'm helping a charity but they have a web portal
<bigcalm> DJones: I use andchat on my phone when I need it
<Azelphur> xD
<diplo> So stuck a iframe in side of there site to give it some functionality they want
<bigcalm> Azelphur: but not in here ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<diplo> all fine and dandy in chrome/ff
<diplo> But... IE caches the iframe
<diplo> I can't add any JS to the portal to get it to refresh on load
<diplo> Anyone know of any other hacks ?
<bigcalm> When you call the iframe, tag a random number on to the end of the url with ?
<bigcalm> So: foo.html?3498753
<bigcalm> Another is to set the caching options in the html page that the iframe loads
<diplo> Anyway of creating random chars in html
<bigcalm> Not if it's a static html site, no
<diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Cache-Control" Content="no-cache">
<diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Pragma" Content="no-cache">
<diplo> <meta http-Equiv="Expires" Content="0">
<diplo> like that ?
<bigcalm> diplo: yes, though I'd search for IE specific bugs
<diplo> Doesn't work - IE sucks
<bigcalm> No kidding ;)
<diplo> yeah have been, all involve loading JS on page
<diplo> And this portal basically sticks <p> around all code you put in the wysiwyg editor under the source area
<diplo> Annd overwrites some of my other code
<diplo> Getting close to bashing my head against a wall atm
<bigcalm> diplo: my condolences
<diplo> heh
<bigcalm> Does the wysiwyg editor offer a 'source' or 'html' option?
<diplo> Started work at 5:30am and finished at 8pm tonight, and then find an email begging me to finish it :(
<diplo> yep, and even under source it still adds <p>
<bigcalm> diplo: are you being paid?
<diplo> No
<bigcalm> Then it can wait
<diplo> Not for the web stuff
<Azelphur> operation get the compiz developer a PC that doesn't suck is almost done, $44 more and I can get him a better motherboard :D
<diplo> Got to see them in the morning :) One of them is rather pretty :)
<diplo> <-- fool
<bigcalm> Haha
<diplo> Already offered me brownies, trying to up the auntie
<Monotoko> hmm... you're a group of knowledgable people and the talk of work reminded me of something, I have a .co.uk set up with nameservers, I can point a .com at them and use it fine, but if I try to point another .co.uk it fails at the registrar (123 reg)
<Monotoko> any ideas why that would be the case? Is there some limitation on .co.uk relying on another or something?
<AlanBell> fails with what message Monotoko?
<Monotoko> hold on AlanBell
<Monotoko> AlanBell, "create_nameserver failed! Parameter value syntax error"
<Monotoko> that's all I'm getting from 123reg
<AlanBell> sounds like they have a bug
<Monotoko> hmm... let me try it from another registrar
<bigcalm> mVf:E!4b7<#LUxJn
<bigcalm> Humm, this isn't my shell
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Thanks again, didn't get anywhere
<bigcalm> pwgen -sBy is great for fairly obscure passwords
<diplo> But my body is now starting to shut down so I think it's bed before the kids wake me up
<bigcalm> diplo: use a tiny bit of javascript. It'll save you hassle
 * diplo takes note of above code for a later date
<diplo> I can't load it in the editor
<diplo> Wraps <p> tags around it to stop it loading
<diplo> :/
<diplo> Haven't found a way round it yet
<bigcalm> You can still do <script type="text/javascript">...</script> and the <p></p> shouldn't affect it
<diplo> Clear mind in the morning, last try and then tell them there hosting is to rubbish and I can't help then
<diplo> Yeah didn't load last time I tried
<bigcalm> Indeed, sleep is good :)
<bigcalm> Shame
<diplo> Will try with something very simple tomorrow with a alert or something
<diplo> And work my way up
<bigcalm> Might be converting < and > to &lt; and &gt;
<bigcalm> Indeed
<diplo> Could be, will hax0r it in the morning and let you know
<diplo> cheers
<diplo> <- bed!
<bigcalm> Toodles
<diplo> gn all
<ali1234> relying on the random function of user's browser sounds like a spectacularly bad idea depending on the use case...
<Monotoko> AlanBell, you were right... got the same message changing the NS to ns1.helloworld.co.uk and ns2.helloworld.co.uk
<bigcalm> ali1234: try and solve diplo's problem then :)
<ali1234> well i don't know what the use case is
<bigcalm> Read up ;)
<bigcalm> IE cashing an iframe
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> ie iframe support is dreadful
 * Monotoko remembers making a website in the 90's with iframes
<bigcalm> Monotoko: it would have been frames, not iframes
<bigcalm> iframes are the slightly less evil offspring of frames
<Monotoko> ahhh perhaps :)
<Monotoko> I can't even remember the code I used these days...
<ali1234> i assume the iframe is from another site?
<bigcalm> Who knows, he's gone to bed
<bigcalm> But it's a good guess
<bigcalm> Yay
<ali1234> he should use the real http headers on the other server
<bigcalm> Got payments and repeat payments working via SOAP to paypoint.net
<ali1234> to control caching, not the html embeded stuff which fails in an iframe
<ali1234> it might still not work but it has more chance because it doesn't rely on html parser which as we all know sucks
<bigcalm> When I say it works, I mean that without any error checking at all :D
<bigcalm> The worst thing about client websites are the clients
<bigcalm> Life would be simpler if they didn't have to enter content
<ali1234> nah
<bigcalm> Users are worse than the clients?
<ali1234> no the worst thing is the client's nephew who promises to "make the site really cool" and then introduces 100 vulnerabilities
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> This is why I like working for _very_ big companies
<bigcalm> They don't run into those sorts of problems
<bigcalm> Sadly, I currently only have 3 such clients
<bigcalm> But 3 big clients keep a roof over my head
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Gradual and silent encroachments - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/04/30/gradual-and-silent-encroachments/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gradual-and-silent-encroachments
<bigcalm> I think it might be time for a nap
<bigcalm> I can haz? http://www.cultofmac.com/163920/ikeas-cardboard-knappa-is-the-worlds-cheapest-digital-camera/
 * bigcalm zeds
<bigcalm> Night ya'll
<Monotoko> hmm... think I may need a reboot... RAM: 6GB used, 150mb free XD
<BigRedS> it's only a problem if you run out
<BigRedS> nothing wrong with using ram
<AlanBell> !info wayland-demo
<lubotu3> Package wayland-demo does not exist in precise
<AlanBell> !info wayland-demos
<lubotu3> Package wayland-demos does not exist in precise
<AlanBell> hmm, was deleted
<linuxloony89> Hi all, has anyone had any luck getting there iphone 4s working on 12.04?
<popey> AlanBell: hmm
<popey> AlanBell: weston
<popey> !info weston
<lubotu3> weston (source: weston): reference implementation of a wayland compositor. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.85.0-1build1 (precise), package size 178 kB, installed size 437 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<Azelphur> linuxloony89: *crickets*
 * Azelphur runs
<popey> linuxloony89: to do what?
<popey> i use my iphone4s for various things
<linuxloony89> popey: even connect, put music on, maybe some tv shows... I cant even get Virtualbox to see my iphone, although lsusb does show it
<dogmatic69> linuxloony89: I just plug my iphone in and it worked. think its just a 4 though
<dogmatic69> doubt you will just put music / videos on it with all the itunes drm stuff
<dogmatic69> i have no problems moving pictures on and off.
<linuxloony89> I don't work with drm items, I rip all mine from cd's
<linuxloony89> I mainly use amarok so I'm hoping I can use that
<AlanBell> popey: weston is there, but the sample things are not published
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/wayland-demos
<popey> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wayland-demos/
<AlanBell> yeah, oneiric has been published
<popey> maybe ask bryce?
<AlanBell> yes, but not right now, bedtime for me
<linuxloony89> night AlanBell
<linuxloony89> popey: what packages did you need for your iphone and what version of iOS is it?
<popey> linuxloony89: i dont put music and movies on mine
<linuxloony89> ah, mind you, sounds like your a lot further than me as only lsusb reconises my iphone...
<linuxloony89> got ifuse installed but it doesnt see my phone to mount
<popey> when i plug my phone in, nautilus pops up
<popey> i can import photos to shotwell, or just drag it off the phone manually
<linuxloony89> hmmm, could it be something todo with me running from a kubuntu install?
<popey> *shrug*
<linuxloony89> hmmm, thanks anyway, if I figger it out I'll post it in here for future reference..
<Azelphur> ali1234: I changed up the build even more, http://collabedit.com/sw6va
<Azelphur> managed to get it up to an i5 on the same money \o/
<Azelphur> ali1234: can you check up on your amazon credit too? :D
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-01
<popey> !backports
<lubotu3> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm after making use of that amazon credit of yours whenever your about, got an awesome build here now, i7 2600 :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] First Ubuntu Accomplishments Release - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/01/first-ubuntu-accomplishments-release/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<christel> morning
<DJones> Morning folks
<DJones> Don't forget Ubuntu Open Week kicks off today with "Ask Mark" at 2100UTC https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<DJones> So by my reckoning, current time in UTC is 7:13AM which would make the session 10:00pm tonight
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
<Myrtti> morning
<rml_home> anyone here with a deep knowledge of DNS magic?
<czajkowski> DJones: well done yes
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Morning czajkowski
<JamesTait> Morning all! *8OD
<mattt> hola
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Are the uk mirrors still getting hammered ?
<daubers> looks like it to me
<smittix> Is there no ubuntu minecraft server anymore?
<daubers> smittix: ?
<DJones> smittix: I think popey took his down
<smittix> Ahh
<DJones> Give me a sec while I check something
<smittix> where do you play now DJones? Looking for somewhere safe for my 12 year old nephew.
<TheOpenSourcerer> smittix: I had one running on one of our VMs but it *eats* resources. My son is rather unhappy with me currently :-(
<smittix> heh
<gordonjcp> smittix: avoiding Planet of the Cock People?
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<simonrjon> kkjjA):w
<simonrjon> ^ sorry, wrong window...
<awilkins> IRC is not vim!
<bigcalm> How I wish it were
<oimon> is there any good information on wine interactino with unity launcher?
<oimon> run picasa, you get a second wine icon
<oimon> the picasa icon doesn't light up
<awilkins> bigcalm, http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=931  :-)
<bigcalm> No screenshots, shame
<awilkins> I dimly remember trying it once
<awilkins> My main clients since then have been irssi and XChat
<awilkins> So it can't be that good, or maybe it didn't even work
 * awilkins shamefully used to use mIrc for Windows and is sorry now
<awilkins> The new Prometheus trailer leaves me in little doubt that Charlize Theron's part is an android.
<awilkins> So the shock is probably that she's actually a human..
<smittix> irssi ftw!
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t! getting about 12.7Kbs from the ubuntu-uk servers ;-)
<awilkins> I've been using my ISPs mirror
 * awilkins wonders if downloading the EVE Online client just so you can rip it's music is "wrong"
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I had same issue earlier, can't believe they are still being hammered
<daubers> Oooh professional cad software for Ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I did a clean 12.04 install on my main work desktop on Sunday - has taken ages to get everything installed.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
<sagaci> ah, 12.7K
<TheOpenSourcerer> feels like the afternoon already ;-)
<brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> Just taken about 1/2 hour to get 40mb of updates here
<sagaci> sounds almost like dialup
<diplo> Debating about doing my VPS tonight to Precise, will make sure i point it at his apt-cacher
<smittix> diplo: I use the Virginmedia mirrors. I was getting 3.6mb/s down last night.
<diplo> Cool, I must change mine here then, as at work we are on Virgin and I'm getting sod all
<BigRedS> Heh, my non-use of Ubuntu on servers means that the 12.04 release is all about the soon-ness of a 12.10 upgrade...
<BigRedS> I noticed that release parties feel more like the end of that release than teh beginning of it
<bigcalm> End of the toil just to hit an arbitrary date
<mattt> BigRedS: heh, i only use ubuntu on servers, use mac os x on laptop
<czajkowski> I really am beginging to wonder did anyone on the UK loco test precise before it was released given the issues they seem to be going on about on the list, one would think it wasn't out before hand so you could test before upgrading
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nah people like to install on release then complain till the next one.
<czajkowski> it looks like that
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I kept meanign to, and kept not really knowing what to do to 'test'
<BigRedS> and, besides, every time I ranted an Alan told me it was fixed already
<MooDoo> BigRedS: just using it is a good "test"
<BigRedS> I missed popey's big testing drive 'cause I was working
<BigRedS> MooDoo: yeah, but there's a proper testing thing whose entry I keep missing
<shauno> I've barely used it at all because I lack the motivation to write my own keymap :/
<smittix> I didn't use it until near release because of mouse driver problems made it unusable on my laptop.
<czajkowski> lovely :/
<MooDoo> i think i might install it into a vm this evening ;)
<directhex> czajkowski, once upon a time i installed ubuntu+1 prior to release, but i hit some *really* severe bugs a few times, so consider myself too old for that now
<BigRedS> directhex: +1s are getting better
<czajkowski> s now we have another thread about 12.04 oddities
<BigRedS> you still need to be able to cope with retarded decisions for a week at a time every so often, though
<czajkowski> just seems really unhelpful if people wait till after release to complain
<directhex> bigcalm, i don't want more "oops we hosed x" or "oops we hosed libc" issues in the last month of development
<BigRedS> what's teh point in having a release date if everybody is supposed to have used it beforehand?
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, I don't use +1s at work
<bigcalm> directhex: eh?
<directhex> bigcalm, change your name so you don't tab-complete from big.
<bigcalm> Pfft
<BigRedS> haha
<Dave2> directhex: change your name so you don't tab-complete from d :(
<BigRedS> to be fair, I think he got bi<tab> first
<bigcalm> No idea how long I've had bigcalm. Late 90s I guess
<directhex> Dave2, 3 characters is the tab complete moan threshhold.
<czajkowski> I'm only waiting for someone to give out to Anton to stop his top posting again on threads
<Dave2> directhex: change your name so you aren't the same as the DOS directory listing command
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Dave2> directhex: I bet that's deliberate, you love the Windows and .NET or something.
<bigcalm> I don't mind top posting, just as long as everybody does it in a thread
<directhex> Dave2, yes, clearly
<bigcalm> For the same reasons, I don't mind bottom posting
<Dave2> bigcalm: this is a family-friendly channe
<Dave2> l
<bigcalm> !ohmy | bigcalm
<lubotu3> bigcalm, please see my private message
<czajkowski> BigRedS: fair enough but it's been said god knows how many times, it's bottom posting on that list :)
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Who was that directed at?
<directhex> bottoms!
<czajkowski> bigcalm:
<bigcalm> czajkowski: :)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I just set a very low effor threshold and don't read anything that takes more than that to read it
<BigRedS> This way, I just skip all mail that might otherwise make me annoyed :)
<directhex> i just don't subscribe to lists
<BigRedS> where do you rant?
<directhex> twitter
<BigRedS> ahhh
<czajkowski> and directhex manages good rants in 140 characters
<BigRedS> yeah
<dogmatic69> is it just me or does apt-get upgrade now download multi packages at once
<dogmatic69> 17% [2 google-chrome-stable 5,002 kB/27.2 MB 18%] [1 samba 4,322 kB/8,041 kB 54%] [3 mahjongg 1,364 kB/2,332 kB 58%]                                                                            157 kB/s 5min 34
<dogmatic69> never seen that before
<TheOpenSourcerer> YAWN YAWN YAWN... 58% [4 phpmyadmin 2,842 kB/5,343 kB 53%]                          77.6 kB/s 32s
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: use a different mirror?
<bigcalm> Software sources chose bytemark as my best mirror
<TheOpenSourcerer> could do bigcalm - but I keep thinking I'm about done for now.
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
 * MartijnVdS upgraded his work machine to btrfs
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: oh! I've been wanting that for years!
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it's getting google-chrome-stable from the Google servers, samba from security, and mahjongg from the "normal" repos
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: o.o you should be using git for phpmyadmin
<MartijnVdS> You shouldn't use anything with "php" in the name :P{
<dogmatic69> haters gonna hate
<TheOpenSourcerer> it's only on my desktop for development so I can browser and fix a db when I break it ;-)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: why about phpmyunauthenticatedremoteshell?
<AlanBell> version in precise is fairly new I think
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: the new pma is much better, what version is that?
<AlanBell> !info phpmyadmin
<lubotu3> phpmyadmin (source: phpmyadmin): MySQL web administration tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:3.4.10.1-1 (precise), package size 5217 kB, installed size 15113 kB
<TheOpenSourcerer> what is pma? dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> php my admin
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I see.
<dogmatic69> pma is quite active, there are updates in the repo almost daily
<AlanBell> so how far apart is 3.4.10 and 3.5?
<TheOpenSourcerer> by the looks of this - not very far: https://launchpad.net/~nijel/+archive/phpmyadmin
<dogmatic69> there is 3.4.11, 12, 3.5 is RC
<dogmatic69> git diff RELEASE_3_4_10..master --shortstat
<dogmatic69>  1243 files changed, 689812 insertions(+), 384001 deletions(-)
<DJones> czajkowski: That last tweet of yours is very funny
<czajkowski> http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/boy-11-urinates-36k-worth-apple-macbooks-744098  for everyone to share
<DJones> I wonder how long he's been grounded for
<czajkowski> I know I'm not a lover of macs but dear gods 36K worth of damange
<czajkowski> *damage
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: sounds like a load of pish to me
<shauno> 'and the cart' makes it sound like the just wrote the whole lot off.  some insurance adjuster will have the lot of them on ebay soon enough
<DJones> shauno: With an air freshener in each box
<shauno> apple's a bit odd at the moment.  I'm really not fond of the direction they're moving, but I'm loathe to move off them because I've not found another desktop that's even passable
 * AlanBell wonders how many raspberry pi computers you would have to wee on to get a bill of $36,000
<Dave2> Assuming 100% destruction, 1,440 model B, or 1029 model A
<Dave2> Although the model As would be slightly higher
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: well they're wee computers already aren't they
<bigcalm> mrevell: joining us on Wednesday night and/or Thursday?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Unlikely Wednesday. Maybe Thursday. I'm off to UDS on Saturday, so I have a lot to get done before that.
<bigcalm> mrevell: fair enough :)
<DJones> AlanBell: I wonder how much you'd have to drink to be able to wee on $36,000 worth rasberry pi's
<mrevell> Does anyone here use squid-deb-proxy or apt-cacher? I've noticed that when using either of these I get very slow package downloads. Any normal connection to the machine hosting the cache is fine, though.
<czajkowski> mrevell: ello
<mrevell> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> mrevell: you doing ubuntu updates and finding it slow ?
<mrevell> czajkowski, Both updates and installing new packages. I had assumed it was only when I had the proxy in place but it appears to be happening with or without the proxy. I'm guessing it's just release-releated slowness.
<smittix> Change mirrors
<smittix> I had to change because of the speed. I changed to the Virgin Media Mirrors and all is well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh FFS it has happened again! I have a copy of Talend running (not a repo based installation) and I accidentally selected the "Show Desktop" option on the tab switcher thingy. Now I cannot get Talend back because it has no launcher icon. This is a huge bag of annoyment.
<TheOpenSourcerer> How can I open a minimised app without a launcher icon?
<oimon> alt-tab or docky
<oimon> or find the invisible icon on the dock
<oimon> i have worse issues with wine apps...
<TheOpenSourcerer> alt-tab doesn't reveal the app - it doesn;t have an icon in the launcher
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Oooh. That's a good one!
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I switched quickly between the "show desktop" and a nautilus window that was open in the alt-tab switcher, my Talend app came back!
<oimon> installing debian on a powerpc mac mini :-\
<oimon> the only reason is that it is small..
<DJones> AlanBell: Did you pick up on this http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/043012-linux-desktop-258724.html?page=1
<popey> morning all
<popey> mrevell: i do
<DJones> Morning popey
<mrevell> Hello popey. I think my speed problems have been due to the load on the gb archive, rather than probs with my local cache. I've switched mirror now and it seems okay.
<popey> mrevell: yeah, i use a different mirror now
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<bigcalm> I didn't know about the mirror selection until popey g+'d about it
<bigcalm> Pleased that it's in 11.10
 * popey notes a bazillion mails in the list 
<DJones> And none of the mails are about top posting :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> The list has been busy today
<bigcalm> Maybe it's the weather stopping people from going outside to play
<DJones> I guess its not much of a surprise though, only a week after release, so people will have issues
<oimon> is it a deliberate feature of nautilus window to close when ejecting stuff?
<awilkins> Hmmp, odd Unity bug
<awilkins> Not *visually* losing the window chrome, but behaviour as if I am
<awilkins> e.g. the titlebar, borders, etc, are "intangible" to the mouse, cannot resize by grasping them, clicks to title bar and buttons go through to window behind
<awilkins> oimon, I think it's deliberate from the POV that you just ejected the drive you were looking at, but it's a bit overzealous
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had an application go all "transparent" on me yesterday. Menu in the top bar but no window or contents :-(
<awilkins> DJones, Already detected at least a few ounces of horse manure in this networkworld.com article
<diplo> I got halfway down the first page and cba, read some of the comments and it seems widespread
<awilkins> "You have to switch to the new version of Linux every year" #Bzzzt Ubuntu LTS is supported for 5 years, even the STS releases are 18 months
<diplo> RH/CentOS are now 10 years server? not sure about desktop
<awilkins> Was trying out that WebNotes thing on that Cabinet Office questions thing
<awilkins> There should be a collaborative document markup thing for us OSS guys so we can debunk things online
<awilkins> Also, for things like CISPA, ACTA, Wikileaks cables, etc, so you can collectively pool resources to review things
<diplo> OK, you code it i'll put some input once it's finished
<diplo> :)
<awilkins> Using it to search for prior art in the USPTO software patent database would be good too
<awilkins> If Amazon can put one in a Kindle..
<TheOpenSourcerer> OMG! I just realised that if you choose the "Show Desktop" thing in the alt-tab switcher it minimises all apps on all desktops!
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It didn't used to do that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> How exceedingly stupid is that!
<oimon> is there an un-show desktop?
<TheOpenSourcerer> nope
 * awilkins also finds this deeply annoying
<awilkins> The old way, where there was a key that would toggle it, was better
<awilkins> And looked cool as well
<awilkins> "Hold on while I grab that file on my desktop" #Pwip pwing fwoop
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - thanks to J Fernyhough, the minimised app does show up in Expo! Huraahh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not in alt-tab, but in Super+W
<TheOpenSourcerer> go figure
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think it is very clear that the Unity developers are not using Ubuntu.
<oimon> quite a lot of their tweets used to come from macs..
<oimon> how do i use b43-cutter if i have no internet connection? does it download firmware from the internet?
<oimon> (and does airport extreme require it?)
<gord> oimon, unity developers? no
<bigcalm> gord: joining us on Thursday?
<gord> bigcalm, might be a bit tricky, i don't think national rail can route from oakland to wolverhampton
<bigcalm> gord: bah. How did you make it to UDS?
<DJones> gord: Can you not borrow Canonical One ?
<oimon> gord, is njpatel a unity dev?
<gord> i go every time? not missed a UDS since i joined canonical, i think Lucid was my first
<gord> he is
<gord> well was
<oimon> he used to tweet from a mac , doesn't say that he didn't have 2 laptops with him at all times though
<oimon> i recall others did too
<oimon> although not 100% on their unity or canonical status.
<gord> he loves iphones ;) but his main computer is https://plus.google.com/116146157446190736812/posts/1K6kTnUa2vq
<oimon> not sure if twitter still shows that info
<gord> some people have macs, but everyone did 100% of development and worked 9-6 every day entirely on ubuntu
<awilkins> Hmm, the other unity bug that's been bugging me ; coming back to a window and finding it whited out... resizing it is usually enough to redraw the content
<oimon> awilkins, chromium?
<popey> i looked around at this canonical summit yesterday
<awilkins> oimon, gedit, synaptic
<popey> most people have thinkpads
<awilkins> oimon, Not chromium so far
<popey> contrary to what the internet thinks
<awilkins> I have a Thinkpad from work for the first time instead of an HP and would probably buy one if I needed a personal laptop
<awilkins> The keyboard is nice
<oimon> i have a thinkpad 600E . screen is still nice. processor is not
<awilkins> * after you reconfigure the BIOS to put ctrl in the corner where it's supposed to be, natch'
<awilkins> Screen is a universal annoyance on all laptops now
<awilkins> Stupid HD TV panel factories
<oimon> ?
<gord> my thinkpad screen is fantastic
<gord> IPS, you can look at it from any angle and it doesn't get washed out/inverted
<awilkins> gord, What's it's native res
<gord> standard laptop whateverx7something
<gord> its a small screen, not a large one
<popey> 1366x768
<awilkins> That's what annoys me, the 768 pixel high screens
<awilkins> Because it's economic to produce them in the same factory that makes small TV panels
<gord> its fine, with unity ;) all i care about is the dpi really and the dpi is quite good here
 * oimon has vertical pixels to burn
<awilkins> I had a laptop 10 years ago that had a 1600x1200 screen, why do I have to regress because of the darned TV industry
<oimon> 2 x 4:3 monitors = 1 widescreen
<gord> 1080 monitors bug me though, you get a really big monitor then have pixels the size of your thumb
<oimon> awilkins, viao has 1920x1200 or whatever it is
<popey> i only discovered yesterday that the x220 can drive two external monitors at full hd
<popey> one on vga one on displayport
<awilkins> I have a pair of 22" 1680x1050 panels and the pixels are just fine and dandy tiny enough for me
<oimon> sweet
<gord> popey, i think even more with the dock
<popey> golly
<popey> i love this laptop
<popey> so many people here have the same one, i didnt bother bringing my charger down today
<gord> be nice if i had hdmi instead of display port though
<popey> first guy to walk in has a thinkpad, blagged his
<awilkins> I'd love a machine that could run more displays, if it wasn't for the fact that I'd have to go through endless pain and suffering to get work to issue me with more monitors
<gord> you need a charger with the x220? ;)
<oimon> my work lapto pis so awful i hardly use it
<awilkins> oimon, My work laptop is a nice Thinkpad T420 spoiled by a 32-bit build of Windows with a tonne of corporate crapware on it
<popey> bah, next person to walk in has a macbook
<awilkins> Full disk encryption, even though I never deal with confidential data? Check. Locked out USB ports, making it a PITA to copy files ad-hoc? Check.
<oimon> installing debian in 2012 feels like installing debian in 2002
<awilkins> Worst virus scanner on the planet (McAfee) eating 40% of CPU time every time you do something IO heavy? Check.
<DJones> awilkins: I would have thought Norton would be worse
<oimon> kaspersky is heavier but occasionally catches stuff. mcafee and sophos don't even catch things
<awilkins> DJones, Not sure... we did have Symantec. I resented the 5% CPU time it drank, little did I know
<awilkins> Some of our IO heavy  processes went from 2 minutes to 8 minutes
<oimon> i bet the IT boys turn theirs off or run linux
<DJones> I've not used it for years, but I seem to remember it was like a black hole for the computer, everything vanished into it
<awilkins> But they changed because they got a bundle deal with the other awful corporate ware from Novell.
<awilkins> Zenworks ; daily struggles to install the same patches, fails horribly.
<awilkins> Something that audits every file on your machine by enumerating it's path (including inside archives) and then spends 20 mins of pegging the CPU zipping the list up to send back to base
<awilkins> The IT boys are minimum wage subcontractors, poor devils
<oimon> bad IT = lower productivity
<awilkins> Even my wife doesn't understand why an organization that is basically IT incarnate subcontracts it's IT
 * awilkins works for gov.uk
<awilkins> It's one of those things that is easier to understand if you think of it from the "monetization efficiency" POV rather than the "actual efficiency" POV
<awilkins> Dammit, my spell checker recognises "monetization" as a real word. We're all doomed.
<awilkins> Encrypted USB drives : had a closer look at the ones we buy. Discovered they are just a std USB drive with a partition containing the software.
<awilkins> I'm not going to disclose how much we pay for one of these 2GB USB flash drives, but it's too much.
<awilkins> Our official encrypted drive advice appears to have been drafted by the supplier though, because they say "destroy the device when no longer in use"
<awilkins> I got marked down on our security assessment for thinking that "wipe the key block, re-use expensive drive" was the right answer
<popey> oimon: just showed your bug 985710 to our design lead
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 987223 in unity "duplicate for #985710 Launcher doesn't autoscroll when holding an icon (can't reach trash)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987223
<popey> so yeah, that's broken âº
<gord> i fixed that bug two years ago!
<popey> hah
<popey> also, need to file a bug about launcher tooltips
<oimon> gord, do you run any wine apps?
<popey> in that if you click an app the tooltip stays on screen
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am seeing that - esp. with Thunderbird for some reason.
<popey> it happens with all apps
<awilkins> How about this one : tap super key, use launcher icon r-click menu to "Open New Window", dash remains open
<gord> not in a long time
<oimon> popey, yeah the wine apps is a different bug i noticed last night
<oimon> need to find the corresponding bug # in lp
<popey> awilkins: file it and gimmie bug number
<awilkins> popey, Already filed : https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/937338
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 937338 in Ayatana Design "When selecting an action from a quicklist after opening the dash the dash stays put" [Medium,Triaged]
<oimon> bug 704187, well over year old
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704187 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to add Wine applications to Unity launcher" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704187
<czajkowski> gord: did you remember tea bags?
<popey> i forgot tea bags â¹
<gord> no... :( but why would i remember tea bags when i have a lovely irish lady who brings me tea bags! :)
<czajkowski> would you like me to bring some t?
 * czajkowski shall get a box of pg tips for gord and popey 
<bigcalm> Does the US really have no tea?
<gord> yes please!
<czajkowski> gord: I'm going to remember this when I've got a bug and I need you to fix it mister!
<awilkins> The US has mostly hippy style tea
<awilkins> No proper Northern Working Mens club tea
<popey> \o/ now 4 thinkpads on this table
<czajkowski> gord: is it pg you want or a different type
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you can get imported teas, but the hotels tend to only have crap like liptons
<czajkowski> I'm going to tesco later to do some shopping
<bigcalm> Pendulum: ew :(
<czajkowski> popey: any requests?
<czajkowski> liptons is FOUL
 * awilkins votes for Yorkshire, but has no stake in the matter
<czajkowski> added to that USA doesn't boil their water it's barely luke warm, makes for an awful cuppa tea
<czajkowski> Pendulum: herrrro
<Pendulum> czajkowski: that's just because of hotels putting out water and then leaving it rather than having kettles out to boil it constantly. if you go other places it's boiled properly
<gord> finding actual milk is often a struggle also...
<Pendulum> popey: if I have the energy, do you want me to see what I can find in SF today or tomorrow and bring it out to you?
<Pendulum> czajkowski: hiya
 * Pendulum happens to be in a hotel that actually has earl grey in the room this week \o/
<bigcalm> Pendulum: take it all with you
<gord> or digestives, whats a cup of tea without a digestive?
<Pendulum> digestives are the hard part :(
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I don't have that much. I'll drink it all
<czajkowski> gord: oh yes dunking time
<Pendulum> although there ought to be some place in SF that sells digestives
<Pendulum> gord: are you also already over?
<gord> yeah
<Pendulum> have you thought of asking any of the SF-area community folks if they know about where to procure proper tea and digestives
<Pendulum> I would think there has to be at least one shop somewhere around
<popey> I'm sure they know the answer is the UK :D
<gord> i really only just got here, haven't even left the hotel to have a look about yet ;)
 * bigcalm bangs his head against these error messages
<Pendulum> or, you know http://www.britshoppe.com/ (hours not great for you folks, but I could try to get by and pick stuff up and bring it out since I'm about 2 BART stops from the hotel)
<bigcalm> Silly PHP
<DJones> Don't forget its the "Ask Mark" Open Week session tonight at 2100UTC, ususal classroom channel
<popey> oh, you're here gord?
 * popey loks around
<popey> *looks
<gord> popey, yeah but not doing ps stuff until tomorrow, just working from hotel room unless someone needs me today
<popey> ok
<popey> hotel wifi is pants
<oimon> popey, i see that bug is now High, Critical :D
<oimon> the popey effect
<gord> its fine here :) its 200kb/s but thats basically what i get at home anyway
<popey> well, its fine now all of us are not on it anymore but on hte ubuntu wifi
<popey> :D
<oimon> installing from universe complains "cannot authenticate packages"?
<oimon> http://pastebin.com/D5DLFcHY << cannot install via software center.
<oimon> anyone else have this?
<oimon> i was installing qtnx
<DJones> czajkowski: Don't know if you know anybody that this may apply to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17900220
<czajkowski> DJones: oh interesting, but don't know anyone up in NI
<DJones> But may be handy to pass on to anybody thinking about university
<czajkowski> true
<gord> oh, happy mailman day
<DJones> Presumably it applies to anybody with an Irish passport whether North or South
<DJones> Couldn't tell if the article was just highlighting the effect on Northern Ireland, or the overall situation
<czajkowski> seems to highlight NI
<czajkowski> I have an English passport and an Irish one
<czajkowski> I just renewed my english one
<czajkowski> not had one since I was 16 and had that since I was born
<bigcalm> Having 2 is just greedy :)
<czajkowski> entitled to them both :)
<czajkowski> born in England, mum is Irish, dad is English, moved to .ie when I was 14 months old. lived here for 30 odd years
<DJones> My cousin has Australia & Ireland (Lives in Australia, Father/grandparents are of Irish descent so he got the Irish one as it was easier to get into the US
<czajkowski> in theory I can also get a polish one but not bothered about it tbh
<czajkowski> dont really have any connection to there bar well of course my surname
<BigRedS> DJones: surely an NI passport is a UK one?
<AlanBell> you can get an Irish one too if you want to
<BigRedS> yeah, but that's Irish, not NI
<BigRedS> unless you mean there is an NI one
<AlanBell> read the article :)
<AlanBell> congratulations Laney :)
<AlanBell> I love seeing the comings and goings from https://launchpad.net/~not-canonical
<Laney> har de har
<MartijnVdS> http://www.kalimedia.com/Atlas_of_True_Names.html
<AlanBell> 4 former members now
<Laney> very observant
<AlanBell> and sladen joined it at 2 minutes past midnight
<Laney> yeah that is interesting, wonder where he's off to
<popey> heh
<gord> i have launchpad friends... i'll find my way into that team somehow...
<AlanBell> he is off to fix his boat mostly
<gord> hum, i know you can tether from android -> computer, but what about computer -> android?
<BigRedS> so have android use the computer's net connection?
<MartijnVdS> gord: to have the android use the computer's network?
<gord> yeah
<MartijnVdS> gord: you can set up the PC as an AP
<gord> that won't interfere with it getting its own connection from wifi?
<MartijnVdS> Modern cards (except intel?) can be both client and ap at the same time
<MartijnVdS> but it might interfere, in that case: use a separate wifi adapter
<MartijnVdS> $2 from dealextreme..
<shauno> a bit late on the passport thing, but I've been looking .. it looks like I can get one here simply based on 5 years' residency.  half tempted just for the novelty value
 * MartijnVdS sticks to the NL one
<BigRedS> I briefly looked into an Israeli one, but then they pointed out the national service thing
<shauno> hah.  yeah, that could be interesting
<BigRedS> expensive commute
<shauno> reminds me of the trouble HazRPG had leaving egypt on his :/
<BigRedS> on an israeli one? It's not the most universally useful passport to hold
<shauno> he got stopped leaving & asked to document why he hadn't done service there.  awkward much.
<BigRedS> ahhh
<shauno> I like the idea of getting a .ie one tho.  I've noticed there's plenty of places that are a bit friendlier towards the irish than the brits
<BigRedS> oh yeah, apparently it's the most useful passport to have
<BigRedS> according to several travveling friends of mine
<BigRedS> seems the only country ie's ever really annoyed is england
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: well they're quite catholic, might not go well with hard-line muslim countries
<BigRedS> I don't think anyone looks into it that deeply, do they?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sometimes they have these "arrested for trying to convert muslims" things
<BigRedS> I don't think I know anyone whose been to a hard-line muslim country, thinking about it
<MartijnVdS> they like to use it as an excuse
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<MartijnVdS> I know someone who's been to Iran, he said he was pleasantly surprised
<shauno> speaking of which, I got my uk one renewed recently.  one of the new biometric jobbies.  not impressed.  they feel like cardboard instead of vinyl now
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Of course, all the crap is on a political level; like everywhere else.
<gord> biometric ones are neat coming back in, get to use the fast computer line thing
<popey> the only downside with those fast lanes is the idiots who can't stand still
<popey> or look in the right direction
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I need to renew mine
<popey> or hold their passport correctly
<BigRedS> I thought they were taking those away?
<shauno> I don't visit the UK often enough to see much benefit from that :/
<jpds> BigRedS: That's IRIS, different thing.
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> I don't go through anything that hi-tech
<BigRedS> I only go abroad on tunnels or boats
<zleap> Hello
<BigRedS> hello!
<zleap> how are you
<bigcalm> Pendulum: tea and biscuits - http://www.yousaytomato.biz/
<shauno> the other catch with flying into the UK is that I'm usually coming from ireland, so there is no passport control at all ;)
<bigcalm> Pendulum: recommended to me by an English friend who lives in SF
<BigRedS> I have accidentally smuggled someone to France before
<BigRedS> zleap: pretty good, you?
<zleap> i am god
<zleap> good
<BigRedS> oh
<zleap> (sorry)
 * BigRedS bows
<BigRedS> haha
<zleap> key board is a bit dodgy i think
<shauno> BigRedS: we got in trouble for that in italy.  they threw a hissy when we left because she (USian) didn't have an entry stamp.  it's strange system when it's almost working
<gord> suddenly, people are protesting outside ...
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<popey> oh?
<BigRedS> I'm always amused when I get a passport stamp
<BigRedS> pleasantly so
<BigRedS> outside millbank?
<popey> there were some occupy oakland people around last night
<BigRedS> not about unity again
<BigRedS> oh, no, you're on some jolly abroad aren't you
<zleap> popey, are you in oakland then
<popey> yes
<popey> as is gord
<zleap> is this for some conference
<popey> yes
<popey> Ubuntu Developer Summit next week
<zleap> ubutu developers summit (guessing)
<popey> ya
<zleap> ah cool
<zleap> sounds good
<gord> one of the signs said "the system is broke", could of been about ubuntu i guess!
<gord> they should file bugs though, more efficient
<zleap> so is this summit to plan for 12.10
<smittix> My daughter is absolutley rolling. She has found the program 'Cheese'
<zleap> ;)
<BigRedS> Free software has given me unreasonable expectations
<BigRedS> I try to file bugs about all sorts
<zleap> at least when you file bugs you get some feedback,  i think with MS it goes in to the great Microsoft bug database and you never get feedback on things
<zleap> not as an end user anyway
<BigRedS> Oh, I didn't mean software. Things like sleeping bags and maps
<Myrtti> czajkowski: just as a side note to the launchpad blog - when it's published on the planet, it doesn't actually say who wrote the blog entry, so it makes it a bit difficult to pinpoint who exactly is the person "looking forward to hearing from you all"
<zleap> BigRedS, ok sorry :D
<shauno> I have that with apple.  your bug *always* gets marked as a duplicate of an internal bug.  even if the internal one is more recent.  and of course, you can't view internal bugs ..
<BigRedS> zleap: fortunately, I don't tend to use any software that doesn't have a public bugtracker :)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: oh interesting
<czajkowski> Myrtti: as if you view it on blog.launchpad.net you see the authour but I think thats the same for all the planet feeds that come in via other blogs like deisgn/cloud etc
<Myrtti> czajkowski: just pointing it out that on a shared blog like launchpad one it might be a good idea on pointing out when using "I" or "me" or "I'm" who it's about, atleast on the first reference
<czajkowski> Myrtti: nods good point thanks
<czajkowski> it was copied in from an email that was sent around
<czajkowski> so possibly should have been tweaked a bit more
<brobostigon> has lts-lts server been tested? by anyone.
<directhex> brobostigon, in theory, yes, repeatedly
<brobostigon> directhex: went without breakage?
<BigRedS> It's not testing if it doesn't break
<brobostigon> directhex: i do debian sid upgrades everyday on my desktop, so a certain amount, i cam deal with, worse than that?
<directhex> brobostigon, pass
<brobostigon> directhex: hmm, is that an answer?
<directhex> brobostigon, it means i don't work for canonical so i don't know how much breakage they left in
<brobostigon> directhex: ah, good point, but i meant, as too if someone has tried,
<gord> lts-lts is well tested, its one of the supported upgrade paths iirc
<brobostigon> gord: so it should no break on my vps?
<gord> depends on the vps, some of them require custom kernels and funkyness like that
<gord> it should work fine as long as its a stock ubuntu install
<brobostigon> gord: ok. bitfolk.
<brobostigon> Linux ptaylor 2.6.32-38-generic-pae #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 12:11:13 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
<Pendulum> gord: May Day Occupy protests
<BigRedS> Oh, today was email-Theresa-May day
<Pendulum> there's one near me in Sf as well, plus the transit workers near the Golden Gate bridge are having a protest
<Pendulum> apparently there was an occupy protest that went bad in the Mission district last night and ended up with a bunch of car and business damage
<brobostigon> gord: so do-release-upgrade should work, within a running system?
<gord> brobostigon, should do, it'll open up another ssh connection in-case things go wrong, backups are always important however
<brobostigon> gord: backups done, you ssh to my vps?
<gord> brobostigon, me? noo
<brobostigon> gord: ssh should be stable shouldnt it?
<brobostigon> ok, so can i keep everything running, untill reboot, and all being equal.?
<gord> it'll reboot once its finished upgrading, you should expect a reboot
<brobostigon> yes, ofcourse, a reboot. ok.
<brobostigon> am i right in saying, do-release-upgrade will fire up snother screen instance?
<BigRedS> it starts a new sshd AFAIK
<BigRedS> never seen it start a screen instance
<brobostigon> so i can start it, within the screen instance i have open already.
<BigRedS> yeah
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Lens Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/01/ubuntu-accomplishments-lens-released/
<Wobbo> I have changed "/home" from a harddisk to another harddisk... But, Ubuntu can't find it anymore. Where or what do I need to change?
<BigRedS> Wobbo: have you told it to mount the new disk at /home ?
<Wobbo> case it had only 4GB
<Wobbo> On the same hardisk there was still 450GB free.
<BigRedS> hm?
<BigRedS> have you edited /etc/fstab so that the OS will mount the new disk at /home?
<Wobbo> nope
<BigRedS> that will be why it can't see it. What have you done so far? Have you been following a guide?
<diplo> evening all
<BigRedS> morning!
<Wobbo> The guides arend always helping me. After all these time I am using Ub, it sometimes works super to do it by just trying...
<BigRedS> Yeah, I just want to know what you've done so I can tell you what there is left to do
<Wobbo> Well, how to get a list showing UUID of all harddisks on my PC?
<diplo> ls -ltr /dev/disk-by-uuid/
<diplo> I think
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Close
<diplo> ls -ltr /dev/disk/by-uuid/
<zleap> diplo, why not cat /etc/mtab or cat /etc/fstab
<diplo> OK, centos4 ( where i found that command ) didn't display uuid's :D
<diplo> tbh, bar for work servers I can't say i've looked at fstab in years
<diplo> And most of our servers still run CentOS4 :/
<zleap> centos is red hat derived iiirc
<zleap> iirc
<diplo> Yupsy
<Nafallo> Wobbo: sudo blkid
<BigRedS> blkdi?
<AlanBell> just the logos are changed basically
<BigRedS> blkid, even
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<[NPO]It_Hz>  /server ir.swiftirc.net
<[NPO]It_Hz>  /server irc.swiftirc.net
<BigRedS> [NPO]It_Hz: /connect
<BigRedS> probably
<oimon1> i just realised there's a version of mint for PPC. just as i finished getting debian ready :-\
<BigRedS> Debian > Mint
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, I meant arch. I keep getting those two mixed up somehow
<BigRedS> still not used mint
<Nafallo> ArchMint
 * Nafallo considers bed
<oimon1> yeah, except installing on a mac mini means lots of non-free stuffs
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> I've never used PPC Linux for a desktop
<MartijnVdS> I have
<oimon1> thinking of using it for a quiet bedroom PC
<MartijnVdS> back when iMacs were green and blue and pink
<oimon1> for viewing iplayer downloads (non flash of course)
<oimon1> mint would have been useful because i want codecs and things
<oimon1> and to watch DVDs
<oimon1> mind you, the macmini is 6yrs old so unsure what's possible..
<MartijnVdS> hd video will be hard
<oimon1> yeah, HD not essential
<MartijnVdS> DVD will work fine
<MartijnVdS> you could try xbmc
<oimon1> bit noisy when installing from DVD though ...scratchy
<oimon1> xbmc doesn't work on ppc, does it?
 * oimon1 checks again
<MartijnVdS> it's open source. Compile it :)
 * oimon1 finds a debian media repo
<shane_> hi anyone know how I can add Auto-Mute control to alsamixer?
<MartijnVdS> auto-mute?
<MartijnVdS> shane_: earcandy - Sound level manager for PulseAudio
<shane_> auto-mute for jack detection
<shane_> when I plug in headphones the speakers don't mute
<MartijnVdS> strange
<shane_> I noted that auto-mute is missing from the /var/lib/alsa/asound.
<MartijnVdS> maybe your hardware can't do it?
<shane_> I have two acer aspire laptops
<shane_> it has worked with 11.10
<shane_> no problems
<shane_> since new lts , and alsa driver 1.0.25 was released its not worked
<shane_> seems to work ok with snd-hda-intel model=auto
<shane_> but it breaks 5.1 surround and the other laptop looses the mic
<shane_> will see what earcandy can do
<shane_> shouldn't have to do this on an LTS though :(
<oimon1> after a good first impression, precise is failing the spouse test atm.
<oimon1> should have waited till 12.04.1 with the family laptop
<shane_> I agree, no way is canonical going to get the numbers they want
<BigRedS> I don't get this LTS thing. Surely each release should be as good as any other, LTSs just stay updating for longer
<shane_> yep
<oimon1> this LTS had 2 betas and a no-break rule
<BigRedS> a no-break rule?
<MartijnVdS> &nbsp; ?
<oimon1> "don't break precise", so that testers can keep testing during beta phase
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<AlanBell> well that was relating to canonical not landing broken stuff
<DJones> oimon1: I have the opposite result, my wife loves 12.04, had to upgrade to the beta rather than wait for the final release
<AlanBell> which didn't stop accessibility being broken for most of the cycle
<oimon1> i have a list of bugs to file/search for @weekend
<shane_> I think the issue here is alsadriver and then 3.2 kernal
<BigRedS> yeah, I didn't have a broken 12.04 at all for teh whole pre-release, but I had many dumb ideas
<oimon1> including dragging an app to launcher and it doesn't stick
<oimon1> happens regularly
<AlanBell> still broken in a number of places in fact
<oimon1> the picasa thing is major since it doesn't show on launcher or alt-tab
<popey> picasa under wine?
<oimon1> yes
<shane_> it would be a wine glass
<shane_> all wine apps show as wine glasses
<popey> bug 704187
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704187 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to add Wine applications to Unity launcher" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704187
<shane_> seriously though anyone know of how I can make auto-mute stick
<oimon1> popey: it's worse than that, since i have a valid .desktop file (i think), but launcher doesn't show the arrow, and alt-tab doesn't show the app, hence if you open another window, you lose it
<shane_> you know if you run alsamixer from terminal you should see auto-mute, provided your pc sound is working fine
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/40821/picasa-icon-disappeared-in-unity-launcher
<oimon1> answer is not the right one though :-\
<oimon1> maybe i'll try the deb file of v3.0
<oimon1> rather than v3.9
<shane_> thanks MartijnVds, but ear candy is not helping
<shane_> is there anyway to down grade the alsa driver to 1.0.24?
<oimon1> thanks for the suggestion though popey
<oimon1> i think the old issues related to pre 12.04
<oimon1> or something
<oimon1> gonna check on my work PC and raise a bug for precise if necessary
<mikeatvillage> Hi, I'm totally braindead this evening and need help :-(
<shane_> wazup
<oimon1> i think opensourcerer was complaining of similar issues with alt-tab
<shane_> join the club
<mikeatvillage> I'm getting 'Hosy key verification failed' connecting to my server and can't remember what files I delete to fix it !
<BigRedS> it tells you in the message...
<BigRedS> you remove the line in ~/.ssh/known_hosts that contains the host you're connecting to
<BigRedS> assuming, of course, that the new key is correct
<oimon1> MartijnVdS: this debian media repository is solving all my issues with just an apt-get of xbmc, all the lovely codecs are getting pulled in as deps :)
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<oimon1> anyone tried minitube?
<shane_> nope
<Azelphur> I have
<mikeatvillage> BigRedS: I told you I was braindead ... I'd been deleting root's known hosts file instead of my own!
<oimon1> Azelphur: how is it?
<BigRedS> mikeatvillage: haha
<BigRedS> We've all been there
<Azelphur> oimon I like it
<BigRedS> (well, I hope everyone else has
<BigRedS> )
<oimon1> are you flash free Azelphur
<Azelphur> no
<mikeatvillage> Thanks for helping me out of it :-)
<Azelphur> Operation get soreau the compiz developer a new PC was a great success :D
<Azelphur> $470 in donations, I managed to build him an i5 rig with 8GB of RAM and still have money left over to get a 23" monitor
<Wobbo> Thanks!
<oimon1> now that superskinny /superfatty has been on telly, i'm gonna raid the kitchen cupboards
<Wobbo> Bye
<gpd> anyone reporting problems with courier-imap failing with 12.04?
<shane_> guess I'll have to go out and buy windows 7
<shane_> only joking...
<shane_> did I scare then off
<shane_> i'm gonna stop eating I think oimon1 then skinny people make me look fat
<shane_> well wish me luck been playing with my conf files if im not back I broke something
<AlanBell> popey: no more spinning rust for me, SSD is great!
<gord> but expensive :(
<MartijnVdS> But fast!
 * brobostigon pipes jethro tull, everywhere.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> czajkowski: hi
<czajkowski> AlanBell: wanna help step in for a emea meeting
<AlanBell> sure
<czajkowski> step in
<oimon1> anyone used a wiimote to control their media centre, say with xbmc?
<gpd> oimon1: keysonic wireless keyboard works for me - with trackpad - good for mythtv / chrome on a large TV
<oimon1> combined trackpad & beyboard..nice
<gpd> nice thing is that the mythtv box is in the cellar (no noise) and the usb sender is through the floor inthe room - so verygood signal - no drivers - easy.
<Azelphur> anyone know what type/size of bolt I'd need to bolt a fan onto the back of my case?
<daftykins> well sometimes you get 25mm "height" fans, sometimes bigger
<Azelphur> daftykins: this is to mount my radiator onto the back of the case
<Azelphur> so basically...as long as possible
<Azelphur> overshoot doesn't matter
<daftykins> 'fan' was a trap then? :D
<daftykins> also i'm back in Guernsey woo \o/
<Azelphur> yea, same size hole though
<daftykins> decent intertubes and my lovely lovely screens 8)
<Azelphur> how many you got? :D
<daftykins> well 2 x 24" 1920x1200
<daftykins> but for the past 3 months i've been on a 13" 1366x768 lappy
<daftykins> so it's good to stretch out :D
<daftykins> i had so many updates to do :O
<daftykins> i was running Chrome 14, firefox 9...
<daftykins> old school :)
<daftykins> but yeah back to lovely 16Mb \o/
<DJones> Openweek "Ask Mark" due to start in #ubuntu-classroom &
<DJones> & #ubuntu-classroom-chat in a few minutes
<popey> haha  AlanBell
<Myrtti> hum. Do I want to install Android SDK just to take a screenshot...
<bigcalm> If you had cyanogenmod, you could take a screen shot without the SDK
<Myrtti> yeah I know
<bigcalm> Is there an app to take screenshots?
<Myrtti> I just haven't found any reason to have CM on my Nexus One
<Myrtti> no
<bigcalm> SDK it is then
<bigcalm> Or a camera pointing at the screen
<Myrtti> that I could do
<Myrtti> good idea
<Myrtti> oh dear, remind me not to go watch Prometheus
<robjohnc> Myrtti - my desire HD had screenshot functionality (Hold Power & tap home) in the update to gingerbread. No such luck with the Nexus one?
<yothsoggoth> I'm about to attempt an upgrade to 12.04. Fingers crossed it'l go smoothly :D
<AlanBell> I have upgraded 3 machines over the last couple of days
<d3ngar> hi there
<d3ngar> My system doesn't seem to start up after I upgraded to 12.04
<d3ngar> I get the error SP5100 TCO timer: mmio address already in use
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-02
<directhex> lollerskates
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Accomplishments Needed: Can You Help? - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/02/accomplishments-needed-can-you-help/
<popey> moo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning
<czajkowski> herrro
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<Myrtti> yawn
<JamesTait> Good morning, folks! *8OD
<MooDoo> morning
<Myrtti> awwww, queenie meets other corgis...
<Myrtti> how cute
<bigcalm> Iced doughnuts with sprinkles is a good breakfast, yes?
<kjalil> bigcalm: yes, and nowadays it's pretty safe too :-)  http://yfrog.com/khfwudtj
<bigcalm> o.O
<kjalil> yeah it's something to do with the protests yesterday...
<bigcalm> There were protests?
<bigcalm> I live under a rock
<czajkowski> indeed
<kjalil> yes apparently so, though I didn't notice much. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/335606/20120501/occupy-london-day-2012-trafalgar-square-police.htm
<oimon> postmodern protests are weird. no one can ever really pin down what they want to achieve and how they will achieve it
<iclebyte> protests?
<MooDoo> new one to me as well
<MooDoo> oh dear, another occupy london one
<iclebyte> MooDoo, Can't beat capatilism
<MooDoo> iclebyte: they've been asked to leave, just move em, simples.
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> i think i'm going to setup occupy nottingham to make mcd's open 20 mins earlier, it's my right to eat
 * MooDoo shakes head
<Knightwise> Morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning Knightwise
<Knightwise> Hey MooDoo how are you
<MooDoo> Knightwise: going to organise a protest in nottingham, haven't decided the pointless reason yet, but i'm sure people will follow me non the less. :)
<iclebyte> They're always asked to leave
<iclebyte> hippies.
<MooDoo> lol
<Knightwise> MooDoo: protest against unity ?
<MooDoo> Knightwise: unity?  ubuntu unity?
<Knightwise> MooDoo: for example
<MooDoo> Knightwise: wouldn't know i use windows ;)
<Knightwise> although , i must admitt , i've kinda fallen for unity
<Knightwise> was ready to kick it to the curb after 11.10
<Knightwise> it has however gotten a LOT better
<BigRedS> yeah, I find it pretty usable now
<BigRedS> still prefer Gnome 3
<BigRedS> but I use Unity at home
<kjalil> hmm, I'm using synergy b/w a ubuntu desktop (12.04) and Windows 7 laptop. Everytime I go back to Ubuntu with the mouse, the HUD pops up. It was NOT doing this yesterday...
<ali1234> b/w
<ali1234> ?
<kjalil> between :)
<ali1234> which one is master?
<kjalil> ubuntu desktop is running synergys
<ali1234> synergy syncs the screensaver
<ali1234> some apps send alt to prevent the screensaver
<ali1234> might be related
<kjalil> I also had to do "xset -dpms" otherwise it would flicker everytime I went back to ubuntu as well
<kjalil> ali1234: have you noticed suddens "stops" in firefox as well? It happens sometimes when I'm scrolling, goes away in a few seconds
<ali1234> i've noticed that, not relating to synergy though
<ali1234> just firefox being slow
<ali1234> it stopped happening after i upgraded ram
<Wobbo> Anyone knows why there is different between 12.04 classic 3D and 2D?  How to change it? Is all about de ALT-richtclick options. For example ik cant remove / replace like the "time/bluetooth/audio/etc.".
<iclebyte> anyone rocking 12.04lts in production yet?
<Wobbo> http://imgur.com/0xAfF&bAe9A&fDkAb
<Wobbo> Or stuff like shadows problems http://imgur.com/3kUF9
<ali1234> classic is gnome panel ported to gtk3
<ali1234> it is quite buggy
<TheOpenSourcerer> So is unity. Just had to reboot (again).
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like being back on Windows.
<ali1234> yeah
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> gord, mrevell, bigcalm: I won't be at the lighthouse Thursday,  Sunday my back went into spasm the rigid muscle phase has just knocked off
<czajkowski> davmor2: prods
<bigcalm> davmor2: ok, hope you recover soon
<czajkowski> davmor2: gord is state side
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's fine just letting whoever might of been going that I won't be but thanks
<mrevell> davmor2, Damn, sorry to hear that :( It's unlikely I'll be there as I have so much to get done before UDS.
<mrevell> bigcalm, ^^^
<bigcalm> gord is at UDS and won't be there
<bigcalm> Just me and Alex
<bigcalm> Might as well cancel this one
<bigcalm> davmor2: can you let Alex know?
<davmor2> bigcalm: will do
<bigcalm> davmor2: thanks
<bigcalm> Means that I can stay all night at the LUG meeting tonight
<bigcalm> I'll just moan about being tired in here tomorrow :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: moreati says ok
<bigcalm> Thanks
<diplo> iclebyte, Updating my VPS tonight
<diplo> If that counts :)
<iclebyte> it does. I'd just finished deploying 10.04LTS to all the boxes in the DC!
<czajkowski> 10.04?
<directhex> mornin' ikonia
<diplo> heh I did think the same thing czajkowski
<diplo> Reason I am updating is to get some new versions of stuff
<czajkowski> yes update
<czajkowski> but to 1.04?
<diplo> Supported till April 2015 though.. so..
<diplo> But me I would update to 12 in a few months in a business enviro
<MooDoo> christel: <3
<hoover> hi folks
<MooDoo> hi hoover
<hoover> Hey MooDoo
<czajkowski> diplo: aye tis supported but upgrading now to it just seems odd, I'd have understood it back in 2010 mind but tis 2012
<hoover> Weird: cannot join channel #centos, you are banned
<christel> hullu MooDooVooDoo
 * hoover wonders why? 
<diplo> heh, I expect I am hoover, there are a bunch or morons in there anyhoo
<davmor2> morning MooDoo by the way
<diplo> I found them very unhelpful most of the time
<diplo> I totally agree czajkowski, if it takes a while to deploy though it means he could be waiting a few more months to deply 12.04
<czajkowski> christel: herrro
<hoover> ok
<czajkowski> diplo: each to their own, can imagine explaining another deployment to people, nope just another upgrade to another LTS to do :)
<MooDoo> christel: mwah! :)
<diplo> Got issues hoover or just generally joining the channel
<diplo> ?
<diplo> oimon recommends the Scientific channel, ( Built on rh/centos ) so can ask the same questions
<christel> <3
<christel> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> :)
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> (ish)
<czajkowski> christel: how goes the packing
<christel> slowly
<czajkowski> know the feeling I'm unpacking
<czajkowski> and its currrently flung on the floor
<czajkowski> back went
<czajkowski> :/
<davmor2> czajkowski: I sympathise
<christel> auchies
<Knightwise> czajkowski: i loved your wallpaper on google+
<MooDoo> Knightwise: it was poo nuff said lol
<Knightwise> MooDoo: :) Lol
<czajkowski> Knightwise: ah yes
<czajkowski> am having a lot of fun with my weekly wallpaper
<MooDoo> czajkowski: we love it too :)
<Knightwise> czajkowski: packing/unpacking . Referring to traveling or moving ?
 * Dave2 moves without travelling.
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/photos/102921374554385564572/albums/5730819334465556225
<czajkowski> Knightwise: moved house
<czajkowski> am also in the middle of packing for uds
<Knightwise> lots of boxes / suitcases then
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> :/
<Knightwise> bummer .. kinda throws you off completely
<bittin^work> slow day at work today
 * Knightwise needs to pack for a camping trip next weekend
<Knightwise> Gonna sleep in these http://www.google.nl/imgres?q=tranendreef+heks&um=1&hl=nl&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&authuser=0&biw=1221&bih=684&tbm=isch&tbnid=7JL1cSviPC8PLM:&imgrefurl=http://enersfotodagboek.skynetblogs.be/archive/2012/04/12/de-tranendreef.html&docid=z5_alRxR87775M&imgurl=http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/167222/4273290820.JPG&w=1204&h=752&ei=OSGhT76LJOv14QT9nujVCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=906&sig=110603102820559633957&page=1&tbnh=12
<Knightwise> oops , sorry i meant http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/167222/4273290820.JPG
<bittin^work> iam running memtest and trying to not fall asleep
<czajkowski> Knightwise: that looks so wrong
<czajkowski> how do you even get into them
<hoover> is it possible to enable desktop wrap-around in Unity?
<hoover> So when I hit the first virtual desktop in cycling, it wraps around to the last and so on?
<AlanBell> hoover: you can enable the cube if you want
<hoover> And that would help AlanBell?
<hoover> I don't want any fancy animations, just simple pager wraparound like in xfce & friends
 * hoover is currently trying again to get to grips with unity
<hoover> my-unity is a step in the right direction ;-)
<AlanBell> the cube wraps around
<AlanBell> or in fact in ccsm the desktop wall plugin has an allow wrap around checkbox on the viewport switching tab
<AlanBell> my-unity is just a bad reimplementation of a few bits of what ccsm can tweak
<Knightwise> czajkowski: you need to get a ladder to get into them
<Knightwise> its prety cool.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And another thing - the stupid pop-up scroll bar widgets don't work in Eclipse/Java apps either. grumph hrumph hrumphs...
<oimon> diplo, just read the scrollback
<oimon> a lot of SL comms is done via the mailling list. the forum is also used a little bit, and irc has a few people but the best knowledge would be the mailing list if there is a specific question
<oimon> although more people on the irc would make it a better place :P
<oimon> for hoover,  ^^
<oimon> hmm having all sorts of issues with pidgin and unity. quite often the buddy list window doesn't appear , and cos the launcher doesn't know about it, you can't see it or choose it
<dogmatic69> I just updated from the software manager and it did not ask for my pw
<hoover> ccsm?
<hoover> AlanBell: thanks, I'll take a look
<hoover> Works like a charm, thanks Alan
<popey> morning
<Knightwise> hey popey :)
<Knightwise> when am i finally gonna be able to catch you for an interview !
 * Knightwise feels like a fanboy chasing a rockstar
<popey> hahah
<directhex> you can interview me instead. i'll talk all about how awesome mono is
<jpds> directhex: No thanks, I like stereo.
<directhex> nah, the beatles are best in mono
<jpds> The Beatles also used to hang out around Reeperbahn.
<jpds> Coincidence? I think not.
<directhex> it's all bars & czech hookers these days
<directhex> no proper brothels
<Knightwise> popey: i must admit , i think unity is starting to get pretty good now
<Knightwise> have been ranting and fuming about it for a year though.
<popey> you are not alone
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://twitter.com/#!/CountVonCount
<bigcalm> Twitter thinks I should follow @fosdem and @Raspberry_Pi. I can resist
<gord> i, being completely impartial and independent, would also like to state that Unity is pretty good! congrats to the people that developed it! especially any developers based in the north of england
<bigcalm> gord: such modesty :)
<diplo> I don't mine unity, I do find though even after it starting out in 11.04 that it is still to buggy/slow niggling issues that shouldn't be there now
<diplo> I use it daily, but some times in 2 minds whether to change or not.
<kvarley> Is there a way in terminal that I can return all the lines which begin with "function" from a plain text file?
<diplo> grep function filename
<diplo> or grep -i to make it case insensitive ?
<kvarley> diplo: Thanks for much - really need to learn then grep syntax! It keeps coming up wherever I go
<diplo> Can do lots more with it, defo worth learning and using it with other commands as well
<bigcalm> kvarley: grep -ir "^function" foobar.txt
<hoover> cheers all
<bigcalm> The ^ means at the absolute start of a line, so it won't return lines that have white space before the function
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<kvarley> bigcalm: that's better. Is there anyway I can get those lines but stop when it gets to a ( ?
<selinuxium> BigRedS, Hey fella, how's tricks?
<bigcalm> kvarley: time to google grep regex
 * bigcalm tickles christel
<oimon> i'm running nx client..look what unity launcher thinks it's called: http://ubuntuone.com/4izhR01Hc9ReiNnuqBsbgZ
<selinuxium> Have I been logged off test.... :
<oimon> i find it strange that the dash understands the icons, and the launcher doesn't
<TheFred> hello
<gord> oimon, two difference systems, the launcher gets a window, it has to then figure out what that window is. which is a very complex problem. the dash just reads lots of .desktop files that clearly explain what icon/name to use
<TheFred> Im running 12.04 LTS, and i cant get my wireless card to start... any ideas on how to get it working?
<DJones> Heh, just had  a spam email "Damaged or leaking Windows may be costing you money", turns out, its not to do with memory leaks in windows or corrupt registries
<mattbuntu> TheFred, which wireless card do you have?
<oimon> gord, other docks/launchers don't sturggle with it though :(
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<diplo> Can anyone recommend a good place to get images for use for a charity
<diplo> Specifically want an image of a house that I can overlay ( using one from discovery.com atm, and I don't want them getting told off )
<diplo> openclipart.org seems to have a few but nothing great
<DJones> diplo: Maybe this helps http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/34448/best-free-images-library-websites
<diplo> looking ta
<diplo> http://health.discovery.com/tools/childproof/images/house_off.gif
<oimon> diplo, flickr have a creative commons search
<diplo> Is what I'm using if it enlightens anyone
<diplo> yeah, problem I'm finding is i would like something like the discovery one if possible
<diplo> Having issues finding one though :)
<oimon> do an image search in google for google sketchup house
<oimon> has some interesting results
<diplo> oooh ta
<diplo> http://issathen.co.uk/pap/
<diplo> Doing this for them, basically they wanted to click on a room and list what they need to buy for donations
<diplo> Using a bit of jquery etc
<diplo> ( Not finished product )
<oimon> nice
<bigcalm> Goodness, spotify is struggling to keep a connection this afternoon
<DJones> They've just released spotify for ipad haven't they
<MartijnVdS> so it's all the ipadlings breaking spotify?
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<bigcalm> Damn them
 * MartijnVdS hugs his CD collection
 * bigcalm likes convince and is willing to pay for it
<brobostigon> just found something interesting, www.m.tvcatchup.com , uses rtmp streams, so no flash needed.
<bigcalm> Wonder why my shared ssh keys aren't working with my parents' replacement server
<bigcalm> Copied the keys from the old box and put them onto the new one. I can ssh out of the box with the keys just fine. But I can't ssh in with local keys (keeps asking for a password)
<Myrtti> I've got a similar pickle with my viglen
<bigcalm> Maybe I should give in and re-create keys
<Myrtti> can't ssh in with connectbot into the debian, authorized_keys is the same as it was
<bigcalm> Myrtti: glad(?) that it's not just me then
<popey> almost always permissions on ~/.ssh/*
<popey> which cause that
<Myrtti> huuu
<Myrtti> that could be it
 * bigcalm lookies
<bigcalm> Same permissions in both locations
<Myrtti> ha!
 * bigcalm makes new keys
<Myrtti> popey â¥
<bigcalm> Or do I?
<bigcalm> :(
<DJones> Looks like VM have started blocking piratebay https://twitter.com/#!/ruskin147/status/197720167445307393/photo/1
<Myrtti> silly Myrtti doing a Linux backup onto NTFS external drive
<davmor2> bigcalm: the install is different though right so the access details are like to be different right?
<bigcalm> davmor2: copying keys should work though
<bigcalm> Creating new keys worked
 * bigcalm gets on with life
<bigcalm> Life involves deciding what to have for tea tonight ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: When I did the fresh server install here I had to use ssh-keygen -f "/home/blah/.ssh/known_hosts" -R ip.add.res.s then login again fresh and magically it all worked :)
<bigcalm> The online menu lacks prices
<bigcalm> How helpful
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll have the steak anyway
<bigcalm> davmor2: This might be true, but I like the illusion of choice :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is a choice, rare, medium or well done :P
<bigcalm> Haha
<Myrtti> what
<Myrtti> Mark Shuttleworth on BBC1, looks older and grayer than usually :-P I suppose that's not "our" Mark
<Myrtti> and gone already
<popey> really?
<popey> what was he on?
<Myrtti> popey: namesakes abound
<popey> ahhh
<popey> also.. bah
<Myrtti> a cricket club manager
<czajkowski> evening folks
<brobostigon> evening czajkowski
<popey> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey: lunch time snacks are looking good
<popey> they are naughty
<Laney> ah, the UDS temptations
<popey> woman just came to take it all away
<popey> so i leapt up and snagged two more bits of melon
<popey> huge and juicy
<popey> AND THE MELON!
<popey> me so funny
<daubers> I see popey is drunk again
<czajkowski> popey: you know what else is nice with melon, bacon and syrup
<popey> bleh
<popey> they do eggs to order here
<popey> so far i have had fried, omlette and scrambled
<popey> tomorrow, poached!
<popey> also, piles and piles of bacon
<Laney> complicated american fried eggs
<Laney> "sunny side up"
<popey> pfft, i give no credence to these details
<popey> "fry me some eggs dude!"
<popey> "would you.."
<popey> "Don't care, fry them!"
 * brobostigon wonders about the gas flow in a few hours.
<czajkowski> gmb: ping
<czajkowski> gmb: photo walk route gonna blog it
<popey> you might wanna check with him first
<popey> he went out along the walk i think
<czajkowski> ah cool
<czajkowski> it's the route I need from hm to blog it's being done
<popey> he's busy taking photos today though
<popey> i haven't seen him since brekkie
<popey> think he's holed up in a room somewhere
<czajkowski> ah headshots
<czajkowski> :)
<Laney> want to come climbing at UDS? http://www.touchstoneclimbing.com/gwpower-co/tour
<Laney> ^o)
<czajkowski> Laney: yer bonkers :)
<TheFred> Hello folks :)
<TheFred> Im testing 12.04, so far, so good
<TheFred> Anyone else liking it?
<chris_w> can't get squid to work since upgrade to precise panglion. squeed seems to only listen to ipv6 lsof -i :3128
<chris_w> squid i mean
<gordonjcp> yup, 12.04 *still* doesnt' have the alt-f2 to start a program working
<gordonjcp> *doesn't*
<gordonjcp> steps to reproduce - press alt-f2, type the name of something you want to run (in this case gedit), watch as Unity starts something else seemingly at random
<smittix> gordonjcp: works for me ?
<czajkowski> whoo it's up and out - OggCamp 12 is live http://oggcamp.org/ don't forget to register and come along to the great event!
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: \o/
<TheFred> czajkowski, Im downloading the .ogg now :)
<AlanBell> I feel a reboot coming on
<the-penguin> Hello. Is this the UK channel for 'Precise' support?
<brobostigon> the-penguin: we do ubuntu advice, support, and talk about basically anything inbetween.
<brobostigon> including, beer, and curry.
<AlanBell> mmmm curry
<smittix> mmm beer
<the-penguin> np thanks brobostigon mmm beer
<brobostigon> :)
<the-penguin> and curry mm
<AlanBell> I think that all the machines in my house are now running precise
<smittix> A nice bottle of Old Speckled Hen :)
<smittix> AlanBell: I am very happy with it.
<the-penguin> or a pint of bitter
<AlanBell> just done my server reboot, three assorted kids machines, my laptop (rebuilt on SSD)
<smittix> Touchpad needs tweaking a little more but that's about it.
 * brobostigon has had a few glasses of leffe
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> my accessibility testing machine is on precise
<AlanBell> just the OLPC isn't, and that runs fedora
<smittix> I need to sort my daughters laptop out. That's just reminded me. I am surprised she hasnt said anything this evening. She only uses it for the cheese effects heh.
<brobostigon> on my eeepc, yes, unity2d works well, but is sluggish, gnome-shell semms miles more resource effecient, and less laggy. but certainly, my mum prefers unity, to gnome-shell in certain ways, and gnome-shell in others.
<AlanBell> wonder if I should take the OLPC to UDS
<brobostigon> i think my mum likes the dash, a more visual representation of what is running, but she seeems to find, gnome-shell's superkey thingie, to be more fluid and swifter.
<brobostigon> so i think a combination of unity and gnome-shell is needed for her.
<cid> hello?
<Psybernetic> WHOIS Azelphur
<Azelphur> WHOIS Psybernetic
<Psybernetic> lol
<Azelphur> :P
<Psybernetic> i'm new to IRC :)
<Azelphur> hehe, welcome
<Psybernetic> ty
<Psybernetic> I've never used such a communication system...until i got into linux
<Psybernetic> so i'm just trying out commands...please ignore me
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> you probably want /whois :P
<Psybernetic> oh..
<Psybernetic> it doesn't work :(
<Azelphur> check your status window
<Psybernetic> um...where would that be?
<Azelphur> the tab at the top, probably says "freenode"
<Psybernetic> it just shows the Window title...
<Psybernetic> ah i see
<Psybernetic> lol
<Azelphur> :D
<Psybernetic> it was on the right in my case
<Azelphur> fun, my xchat tabs are on the left
<Psybernetic> well, i mixed up my directions so mine is on the left as well
<Psybernetic> :P
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-03
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning everybody
<smittix> Morning DJones
<DJones> Hi smittix
<popey> mng
<DJones> Morning popey
<DJones> Is this an early start for you, or a late going to bed
<MooDoo> morning all
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning Knightwise how goes it
<dwatkins> I appear to be able to use Amazon's cloud drive now as well as Google's.
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<daubers> No power again this morning \o/
<MooDoo> yay :S
<dwatkins> I wonder how long it will be before this is a widespread problem.
<dwatkins> are you in a remote location, daubers, or does the building just have wiring issues?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<oimon> seeing more reports of hard freezes in 12.04. i've have some myself on 2 different machines :-\
<ali1234> what hardware?
<oimon> intel based dell laptop , and nvidia graphics on a HP
<oimon> core2duo
<oimon> usualy when clicking on the launcher
<oimon> but reisub didn't work for me last night
<oimon> quite hard to file bugs about it
<daubers> dwatkins: It's an underground wire fault in the area. Quite hard to track down
<dwatkins> daubers: ah, not good
<gordonjcp> daubers: TDR, tone injector and probe...
<dwatkins> I thought you could only do that for low voltage cables, such as telephone cables
<daubers> gordonjcp: No idea :) I know they where out sniffing for it a couple of times when it's gone
<ali1234> dwatkins: if the power is out, it;s 0v...
<dwatkins> ali1234: very true, I would be concerned about frying an expensive device that's meant for testing ethernet/telephone cables on a mains circuit
<AlanBell> we can haz office :)
<ali1234> well i would expect they have a custom device
<dwatkins> yeah, a trained badger ;)
<christel> AlanBell: DO TELL
<christel> (tell me all the things, particularly whether it has room for me and popey!)
<christel> ;)
<christel> (and hooray, congrats, etc)
<MooDoo> hehe it's always good catching up with Amber Grainer :D
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: you rock god, how the devil are you!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Pain easing but still there other than that sound as a round pound on the ground, you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking mate, just spoke to amber grainer, she a good egg :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah she's a lot of fun
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup
<DJones> \o/ Work related task for the day, look at laptops on the internet and get prices/specification....Its a hard life :)
<ging_> on a fresh install of unity does it put the close and minmise buttons on the left not the right?
<DJones> ging_: I'm not sure, although I think that might be the default theme
<ging_> why am i ging_ ?
<DJones> You have a tail :)
<gordonjcp> is there a way to exclude dependencies when  installing something with apt?
<gordonjcp> the jackd package in Ubuntu has some silly superfluous deps
<ging> my buttons are on the right and i can't find an option to move them left
<gordonjcp> ging: it's a thing you change in gconf-editor
<DJones> ging: Which theme are you using? I think its only Ambience and Radiance that do that
<ging> gordonjcp: is itunder unity shell?
<AlanBell> christel: in the granary, behind sugarcraft
<AlanBell> near the statin
<AlanBell> station
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not much room for "hangers-on" though...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd call it small but perfectly formed.
<AlanBell> it is *nice*
<christel> cool :)
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: tsk tsk!
<AlanBell> apparently we can upgrade it to a bigger one at some point
<czajkowski> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer well done
<czajkowski> dont forget oggcamp 12 is live, http://oggcamp.org/  dont forget to register
<MooDoo> yay oggcamp
<czajkowski> MooDoo: will you be showing up ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hopefully, i'm on the crew mailing list, want to get involved with that.
<czajkowski> great :)
<christel> AlanBell: that is nifty should you get more people onboard :)
<christel> the limited pictures i can see online look good! i am glad you found something a bit more modern!
<AlanBell> there is a meeting room and we have been told we can have a party in it :)
<christel> haha
<christel> a moving office party? ;)
<AlanBell> it isn't really right for a big party as such
<AlanBell> maybe an installfest or something
<AlanBell> must check out the Waverley Arms
<AlanBell> http://www.wadhamandisherwood.co.uk/find-a-property/property2.php?id=5631
<Myrtti> :-D
<AlanBell> it is the door on the left http://www.wadhamandisherwood.co.uk/uploaded-files/property/5631/images/3680/property-detail.jpg
<christel> how much are you ending up paying for it?
<AlanBell> Â£460/month ish
<czajkowski> MooDoo: what tool do you use for the daily thingy you do
<christel> *nod*
<christel> incl. rates etc?
<AlanBell> quite a lot per sqare foot but that is all inclusive
<AlanBell> and it is *nice*
<czajkowski> nice indeed
<work-experience> hi
<AlanBell> hi work-experience
<work-experience> are you from ?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: congrats, looks good
<christel> AlanBell: sounds good!
<work-experience> hi
<MooDoo> czajkowski: the fedora paper?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> what tool?
<MooDoo> http://paper.li/
<czajkowski> paper.li?
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> looking for an alternative
<czajkowski> MooDoo: cheers
<MooDoo> czajkowski: http://alternativeto.net/software/paperli/ this help?
<MooDoo> hmm actually maybe not
<MooDoo> i really should stop that paper lol
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oh handy
<oimon> anyone got wine installed in precise?
<diplo> oimon, yep
<oimon> diplo, care to confirm something for me please?
<diplo> Shoot
<oimon> open dash, type notepad. drag notepad to launcher, and run notepad.
<diplo> OK
<oimon> does the arrow appear next to notepad?
<diplo> Yep
<oimon> now close note pad and try running it from launcher
<yothsoggoth> oimon: Does for me, too
<yothsoggoth> oimon: arrows still appear
<oimon> 64-bit precise?
<diplo> Arrow doesn'tappear second time
<oimon> diplo. ok now minimise notepad
<yothsoggoth> 32-bit here
<diplo> OK, minimised
<oimon> diplo, now try to get it back
<oimon> try alt-tab
<oimon> you now have a running app you can't get back
<oimon> now we try to find someone who cares :D
<diplo> Yep, I already have another wine app thats running
<diplo> that always shows in alt tab
<oimon> which?
<diplo> oimon, can get back with Super + W
<oimon> picasa and notepad aren't showing
<diplo> SQLYog
<yothsoggoth> it shows fine in alt-tab in 32-bit Precise, for me
<diplo> Mysql db app
<oimon> yothsoggoth, strange. i'd like to try with any other ppl running 32/64 variants
<diplo> I'm 32bit btw as well
<MooDoo> sigh fedora do pick some sad codenames :S F18 - Spherical Cow :S
<oimon> definitely doesn't show in alt-tab
<diplo> yeah Wine icon disappeared from alt-tab now i've closed yog
<diplo> But notepad still open
<oimon> diplo, yeah so you have same bug
<diplo> Record it like popey does oimon ?
<oimon> there is a bug 704187, which predates 12.04 but is the most similar
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 704187 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unable to add Wine applications to Unity launcher" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704187
<oimon> but assignee->nobody now :(
<yothsoggoth> MooDoo: Yeah, some of their older names are pretty cool, then stuff like Beefy Miracle and Spherical Cow Â¬Â¬
<oimon> serious issue for my wife running some wine apps, and for me too
<MooDoo> yothsoggoth: then again ubuntu's aren't brilliant, after q i axpect r to be totally unprenounsable lol
<oimon> gord assigned jason smith to it, but now it's unassigned
<yothsoggoth> MooDoo: Yeah, Quantal Quetzal's already pretty difficult, doesn't exactly roll off the tongue does it lol
<oimon> ah, maybe that's just bamf (whatever that is)
<oimon> diplo, can you "affects me" on that bug too pls,
<MooDoo> yothsoggoth: next one will be ranunculaceous racoon ;)
<yothsoggoth> MooDoo: Spherical Cow isn't looking too bad now eh?
<MooDoo> lol
<oimon> i said i would use beefy miracle if they called it that.
<MooDoo> some nice sponsors of the UDS :)
<diplo> oimon, Simon?
 * christel sponsors MooDoo 
<oimon> :P
<oimon> say simon in a high voice
<diplo> I may create a video and attach it to it, been meaning to try it out for months
<oimon> kazam ?
<diplo> But before that I'm going home to get some lunch
<diplo> Yah
<MooDoo> christel: oh christel stop making me fall for you ;) lol <3
<oimon> kazam is an example of a program to do a simple task done well
<oimon> i'm amazed nobody wrote a twitter app to do twitter well
<christel> hahaha
<christel> <3
<MooDoo> :)
<christel> there goes my plan of buttering you up to come help me assemble some furniture...
<oimon> my best experience of getting bugs fixed is show them to popey, then they magically get fixed
<christel> i'll have to try my luck on AlanBell next!
<MooDoo> christel: i'm other end of the country am i not
<christel> true :(
<christel> my other half is completely useless at anything practical
<christel> he took 6 days off work to "help pack before we move"
<MooDoo> christel: if i were closer obviously i'd have jumped at the chance to be in your presence ;)
<AlanBell> gosh
<christel> in those 6 days he managed to pack ONE box of dvds..
<MooDoo> wow
 * AlanBell reads back for context
<jussi> christel: Ill assemble all the furniture you want if you pay for my ticket there :D
<christel> jussi: deal!
<jussi> cool, send the the details :D
<MooDoo> christel: you should of had a packing party )
<christel> tell me when you're free! hehe
<christel> MooDoo: ooh good thinking!
<jussi> christel: oh, you also have to provide me with a corner to sleep in :D
<jussi> christel: now.  :)
<christel> that i can do!
<MooDoo> any one else here going to ogg camp?
 * BigRedS is pondering it
 * gordonjcp is
<DJones> I may have a visit as its only down the road, but busy time with cousins wedding, birthdays and holidays in August, so may not get the chance
<christel> MooDoo: i am debating it!
<christel> AlanBell: are you going?
<AlanBell> no, can't really this time
<christel> *nod*
<MooDoo> christel: <3 :)
<christel> i think i might do, the boys would benefit from a weekend of bonding i am sure!
<MooDoo> christel: i'll le tou buy me and others beer :)
<BigRedS> Hm. I need suggestions for another hostname in a theme
<christel> MooDoo: how very kind of you ;)
<BigRedS> I've already got amazing, fantastic, brilliant and awesome
<AlanBell> superlative
<MooDoo> christel: always thinking of you  :) lol
<BigRedS> nah, that's their subdomain
<AlanBell> exquisite
<AlanBell> splendiferous
<BigRedS> oooh, that'll do
<andylockran> Â³Â²Â±Â¶ÃµÂ±Ã©Ã§Ã©Ã±Ã¤Ã¨Ã©Ã¨Ã¤Ã¯ÃªÃ¤Ã©ð°°­Â°Ã¬Â²Ã«Ã¯Ã·ÃªÃ¤ÃÃÃÃÃÃ®Ã®Ã®Ã®Ã®Â²q
<andylockran> sorry
<andylockran> messing with some keyboard shortcuts
<MooDoo> yummy beans on toast
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes it was MooDoo
<TheOpenSourcerer> With curry and chilli powders
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i've got some hot chillies i have on everything, my tastebuds are now shot lol
<dogmatic69> I broke the paste bin http://paste.ubuntu.com/964595/
<dogmatic69> :/
<AlanBell> wrap would be nice
<dogmatic69> it is kinda bad as pastebinit now uses that.
<AlanBell> it does by default, which is normally good
<AlanBell> the wrapping needs fixing really
<ali1234> no spaces at all?
<AlanBell> there are spaces
<AlanBell> it is in a <pre>
<AlanBell> to be fair that is not going to look pretty under any circumstances
<ali1234> http://jsbeautifier.org/
<ali1234> nope, still looks awful
<BigRedS> do pastebins normally want to wrap?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got any recommendation for a kbd/mouse bundle to use with a laptop (Ubuntu)?
<DJones> If anybody has a joggler, O2 is dropping support at the end of the month http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/03/o2_drops_support_for_joggler_family_tablet/
<ali1234> is that... a hash of functions?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh no! I have a Joggler - somewhere...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - Logitech's kbd/mouse says Windows & Linux 2.6 kernel or later :-)
<sagaci> TheOpenSourcerer: kernel 3.x should work pretty well then
<sagaci> wonder how long it will take for items to stipulate 3.x and later
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any thoughts on wired kbd/mouse vs wireless?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I use a Logitech M505 wireless mouse on UBuntu without any issues
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a Logitech Performance Mouse here - It's great. But I want something for the (new) office to use with my lappy.
<DJones> I find a wireless mouse is a lot better than a wired one with a laptop, no matter whether you've got the laptop on your lap, on a desk, to your side etc, you don't have to worry about cables getting in the way
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure about wireless/wired and whether it's better to go for a separate kbd & mouse.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I can't quite understand why I'd want a wireless kbd somehow.
<TheOpenSourcerer> MOuse yes.
<MooDoo> i use the microsoft wireless keyboard and mount, seems ok for me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is what I have at home - the dogs danglies: http://www.ebuyer.com/172750-logitech-performance-mouse-mx-with-darkfield-laser-tracking-usb-with-nano-910-001121
<sunday> \pyramid
<MooDoo> pyramid
<MooDoo> ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's like a 3d triangle
<TheOpenSourcerer> but with a square base
<MooDoo> i know that lol quite a random statement unless i've missed the conversation :D
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: surely you're more likely to lose a wireless mouse than keyboard?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - I don't tend to lose much.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wireless mice are good - they move much more freely.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But cheap ones aren't too hot - can be slow, short battery cycle etc.
<AlanBell> I like my little red logitech mouse
<AlanBell> have not replaced the battery yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> what model is that one?
<AlanBell> M185
<TheOpenSourcerer> does it have the thumb buttons for forward/back?
<AlanBell> no it is a cheap basic one
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
<BigRedS> Ah, I use a trackball because it means I need a smaller area of tidy desk than for a mouse
<BigRedS> which might explain how I lose mice
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<BigRedS> Hm. Thunderbird keeps dragging the system to a crawl and then exiting with error messages that are probably not all that useful
<BigRedS> anyone know a way to run it with more info?
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: You can run it from the cli and add -jsconsole to open the Error Console
<TheOpenSourcerer> or -g starts it in the debugger
<davmor2_> BigRedS: it is a huge memory/cpu hog while it does and initial import of mail
<davmor2_> BigRedS: if it is crashing it should ask you to send a report
<davmor2_> BigRedS: if it hasn't may I suggest you empty /var/crash and try it again
<BigRedS> Ah, yeah, maybe it's just trying to download everything, running out of memory and crashing...
<BigRedS> why can't these things be well-behaved?
<brobostigon> any pages people can advise on setting up a mumble server ?
<BigRedS> what I got earlier to terminal was this: http://pastebin.com/mMURV7s7 which I think isn't overly useful
<BigRedS> 'techteam' is an imapfolder with several thousand messages in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> several thousand doesn't seem like a lot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unless they all have large attachments
<TheOpenSourcerer> Most of my accounts in TB have tens of thousands of messages.
<BigRedS> yeah, I've not seen TB have an issue with this mailbox before
<BigRedS> but 'before' wasn't ubuntu :)
<BigRedS> Is there some way to tell it to ignore old mail?
<TheOpenSourcerer> might want to try on the #ubuntu-mozilla-team room (sorry that isn't the right name and Empathy doesn't give you a room list) :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although most of them will probably be in California now.
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> it's #ubuntu-mozillateam
<BigRedS> ta
<BigRedS> (forgot there'd be a ubuntu-flavoured place to go)
<popey> Morning!
 * awilkins grunts incoherently
<bigcalm> Good morning popey :)
<MooDoo> hello popey
<BigRedS> hm. Thunderbird takes longer to crash now that I have a swap file...
<AlanBell> my raspberry pi has been dispatched
<BigRedS> I might just create a 20GB one and leave it be overnight
<davmor2_> popey: you in Oakland by any chance?
<popey> yes
<davmor2_> popey: slap gord a high 5 at some point
<popey> are you american?
<AlanBell> wonder if my raspberry pi will arrive in time to bring to UDS
<popey> mine has just been shipped
<AlanBell> popey: are there any HDMI monitors kicking about?
<davmor2_> popey: No but when in rome.....
<popey> in your room, yes
<AlanBell> cool
<AlanBell> if it turns up I will bring it
<popey> uhm, if mine turns up, wanna go and get it from my house and bring it? âº
<AlanBell> yeah, OK
<davmor2_> AlanBell: the correct answer to that is Yeah but it'll cost ya
<davmor2_> AlanBell: you going to UDS too?
<popey> ok, have asked clare to let me know when it comes
<AlanBell> at heathrow "are you carrying anything belonging to someone else?" <snap of rubber gloves>
<popey> âº
<davmor2_> AlanBell: Don't say yes I have a raspberry pie that'll be undisclosed food for starters :D
<jpds> AlanBell: Better is the more philosophical one: "Could anyone have put anything in your luggage _without your knowledge_?"
<bigcalm> 2 hours to go
<popey> until?
<davmor2_> bigcalm: till what?
<bigcalm> The nexy Galaxy is unveiled
<davmor2_> bigcalm: how do you know it will be nexy
<popey> pfffft
 * popey is waiting for ubuntu phone âº
<bigcalm> davmor2: google 'next galaxy'
<bigcalm> Oops, next, not nexy
 * bigcalm sighs and gets on with "stuff"
<aquarius> who do I ping with ubuntnuforums questions, these days?
<jpds> aquarius: #ubuntuforums ?
<aquarius> there's a channel? ha!
<BigRedS> haha
 * awilkins contemplates death for the developer who copied hard-coded credential pairs into a user acceptance test config
 * AlanBell has gnome-calculator running in wayland
<davmor2_> yeah popey when that happening?
<czajkowski> Laney: ping
<Laney> hello czajkowski
<czajkowski> Laney: the CC meeting is on now and reviewing all the CoC feedback
<czajkowski> in case you're interested
<Laney> aha
<Laney> i thought it was friday for some reason
<Laney> SLASH WINDOW FIFTEEN
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> Laney: you're welcome
<Laney> :-) cheers boss
 * czajkowski dangles digestives and tea bags in front of gords
 * czajkowski dangles digestives and tea bags in front of gord
<davmor2_> czajkowski: I'm pretty sure that should be in the COC that you're not allowed to tease devs :P
<czajkowski> I don't tease devs
<czajkowski> I mearly bring tea to gord in the hope he makes hud nicer
<czajkowski> granted so far this has failed
<davmor2_> czajkowski: hud is nicer
<davmor2_> it at least accepts whole words now
<AlanBell> even if you type the whole words into a VM
<zleap> hi
<AlanBell> http://www.honeproperties.co.uk/available.php that is our new office
<zleap> AlanBell, nice :)
<popey> thats only two alans in size
<popey> not nearly big enough
<AlanBell> well it is a start
<AlanBell> and we can move about within that building as stuff becomes available
<bigcalm> Love how the page keeps refreshing itself as if there was more than one image to display
<AlanBell> yeah, bit of a fail
<AlanBell> there will be zero to display soon :)
<bigcalm> Does it come with those 4:3 monitors and printer?
<AlanBell> not sure!
<AlanBell> it does come with the desks
<bigcalm> They look ok
<bigcalm> Well done on your office find :)
<AlanBell> we just bought some desk voip phones and more monitors and stuff
<bigcalm> Yay toys!
<yothsoggoth> Does anyone here use a web-based password manager, such as LastPass?
<popey> yes
<popey> i do
<bigcalm> I'm going to have to eat tea instead of watch Samsung Mobile Unpacked
 * bigcalm grumbles
<yothsoggoth> popey: What do you think of it? I'm considering signing up and getting Premium so I can use it on my phone, too.
<ali1234> isn't that a bit of a pointless question? obviously he likes it or he wouldn't use it. and the rest of it probably don't think it is a good idea or we would...
<ali1234> personally i think you are safer printing the passwords on a piece of paper and keeping it in your desk
<yothsoggoth> true, but he might have had some things he disliked about it that he would've mentioned :P
<yothsoggoth> To be honest, I'm thinking of doing it more out of laziness than security. My most important passwords I remember anyway, because i use them so often
<yothsoggoth> it's just the general day-to-day passwords I tend to forget, or when I go back to something I haven't had to log onto for a while I find I've forgotten the password and lost the piece of paper I wrote it on or something
<ali1234> i just use "recover password"
<popey> YaManicK1ll: i love it
<popey> the fact it supports yubikeys is cool
 * Laney eyes halifax
<Laney> this 4 minute wait is suspiciously long
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you know about gmail's "?" key showing all shortcut keys?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I just discovered it by accident!
<popey> woah
<popey> never seen that before
<MartijnVdS> popey: very Unityesque :)
<popey> turns out its been there for 4 years
<MartijnVdS> wow
<ali1234> how do i actually use this?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what, keyboards?
<ali1234> say i go to gmail .com and i wnt to read the first message in the inbox, what keys to i press?
<popey> you need keyboard shortcuts switched on
<popey> its an option
<ali1234> ok. now what?
<popey> press ?
<popey> learn the keyboard shortcuts
<popey> win
<ali1234> i already did that
<ali1234> it doesn't explain how to use it
<popey> how to use what?
<ali1234> gmail with keyboard
<popey> http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6594
<ali1234> for example it says "p / n: previous next message"
<ali1234> but when i press them nothing happens
<popey> they work when in a message
<ali1234> so how do i open a message?
<popey> 20:02:51 < popey> http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6594
<ali1234> that's just the same thing!
<popey> it answers your question
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<ali1234> no at all
<MartijnVdS> You could apply some basic brainpower
<MartijnVdS> and/or trial + error
<ali1234> i'm applying trial and error and nothing does anything on the front page except enter to go to the first conversation
<ali1234> and then i can't go to any others
<ali1234> just go up and down inside that one
<popey> it says j / k
<ali1234> yeah they do nothing
<popey> works for me
<ali1234> and why use different keys to do the same thing on different screens?
<ali1234> why not just use the arrow keys
<MartijnVdS> jk are the same as in vi
<MartijnVdS> it's up/down
<popey> and mutt, and google reader
<MartijnVdS> up/down inside a message means something else (probably browses the trhead)
<davmor2_> popey: man keyboards are so old school when can I tell my computer what to do and just have it do it
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just bought a Galaxy SIII and got a Galaxy Tab for free with it.
<AlanBell> oooh
<TheOpenSourcerer> CPW
<TheOpenSourcerer> first 1000 customers.
<AlanBell> cool
<Azelphur> envy.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going with Vodafone coz O2 annoyed me so much.
<AlanBell> don't drop it
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what, calls? :P
<AlanBell> how big is the tab?
<MartijnVdS> 8 spaces
<ali1234> 4 spaces!!
 * AlanBell claps
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 8!
<ali1234> 4!
<MartijnVdS> 8!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno
 * AlanBell googles it instead
<TheOpenSourcerer> It says worth ~Â£399 so I guess the 10" (DO they even make a small one?)
<MartijnVdS> Aren't there 9001 variations of Galaxy Tab these days ;)
<AlanBell> oh, there are three
<AlanBell> http://www.samsung.com/uk/galaxytab/
<MartijnVdS> or was that the Transformer?
<AlanBell> I want the transformer infinity when it comes out (if there is a chance it will run Ubuntu at some point)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right. Time for a beer and some telly. Will see you at the station (near our new office) before 07:58 tomorrow AlanBell
<AlanBell> ok
 * MartijnVdS loves the Google Documents "comment" feature
<MartijnVdS> Where you can comment on (parts of) a document
<MartijnVdS> in conversations
<MartijnVdS> and then mark them "resolved"
 * bigcalm kicks the Rackspace portal up the bum
<bigcalm> Work you silly thing!
<MartijnVdS> but.. it doesn't WANT to!
<dwatkins> bigcalm: threaten to switch to web-toast.co.uk (they're a pound a month)
<bigcalm> Ooo, must be good
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, I imagine it's pretty basic and there's no support
<dogmatic69> anyone know of half decent reseller hosting?
<dwatkins> reselling what, the hosting itself, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> I want to get a reseller account
<Nafallo> have we got any electricians in this channel? :-)
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I should do the course and become a qualified electrician in case I ever need to find work.
<dwatkins> Nafallo: what level, on a scale of can-replace-a-plug to re-wired-my-own-house?
<Nafallo> dwatkins: I'm trying to figure out if I can find a really flat cable, and still use it for TV / speakers / media player / dvd player / external hard drives etc...
<Nafallo> the once I've found seems to be 2 core...
<dwatkins> Nafallo: there's no reason a flat cable would perform any better, assuming it has enough of a surface area of copper to transmit the required current
<Nafallo> ...which probably isn't awesome for the use case.
<dwatkins> sounds like you have a mains cable
<dwatkins> is this for putting under a carpet?
<Nafallo> no, I'm rather worried about it being worse :-P
<Nafallo> under a wardrobe door ;-)
<Nafallo> if I can shut it, so much the better :-)
<dwatkins> so long as it's not really thin cable you should be fine (if it's bell wire, it might heat up if you try to pass too much current, I think)
<dwatkins> what do you mean by 'use it'? Mains? composite audio?
<dwatkins> I mean composite? audio? etc.
<Nafallo> mains :-)
<Nafallo> no power socket inside the wardrobe
<Nafallo> :-(
<Myrtti> builtin wardrobe?
<Nafallo> yeah
<Myrtti> rental?
<Myrtti> what kind of hinges does it have?
<Nafallo> the safer alternative might be an extension that I just keep disconnecting when I want to close the doors
<Nafallo> and house share, so yeah... rental
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/ircc/ we can haz blog
<Nafallo> hinges are not easily removable
<AlanBell> gah, wrong channel
 * popey pastes
 * popey mass joins 18 channels
<Myrtti> Nafallo: I was just thinking that you could unscrew the hinges a bit so the cable would fit better
<Myrtti> depends on the hinges and doors tho
<Nafallo> yeah, can't do that with these
<Laney> I'm going to have to give in and watch Quantum of Solace before long
<Laney> damn that Shuttleworth
<Azelphur> does anyone know if thepiratebay is supposed to be blocked yet?
<Azelphur> I can still access it
<AlanBell> I think BT were considering appealing
<aquarius> is blocked from virginmedia.
<popey> Laney: you flying with BA to USA?
<popey> it's one of the in flight movies
<Laney> QUANTAL OF SOLACE
<Laney> united, sadly
 * AlanBell is flying BA to UDS
<popey> eww
<Laney> possibly sadly, no idea what they are like
<mattt> evening evening
<dogmatic69> there is a slight delay in terminal connected to a pc next to me. I think something on the fs is going crazy. any way to check?
<dogmatic69> seems like 60% full disks was the problem :/
<dogmatic69> cleared out some stuff and its find now
<Azelphur> hmm, so this piratebay thing seems to have come on rather sudden, was we never given any chance to object?
<shauno> probably not, as it's been done thru the courts rather than legislatively :/
<Azelphur> :/
<Azelphur> I'll just knock up a one click multi-OS bypass.
<Azelphur> if I disappear, you know the feds got me
<shauno> UK law is based heavily in case law, and this is basically a replay of the newzbin case
<Azelphur> yay.
<shauno> the pessimist in me wonders how long it'll be until they try to block foreign news services that are breaching superinjunctions.  once the mechanisms are in place, the ability to be silly with them gets more and more slippery
<Azelphur> shauno: exactly, it's happend loads of times in other countries, we're screwed now
<popey> meh
<shauno> It's still a long way from here to there, but it's not unimaginable anymore. I pick the superinjunction example carefully because it just takes two concepts which already exist in UK law.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-04
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Waiting - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/05/03/waiting
<Knightwise> hey everyone :) good morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell unlike you to be online so early ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha  http://twitpic.com/9gaj36
<popey> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<AlanBell> choo choo
<diplo> Morning
<justso> hi
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers does the excited dance
<MooDoo> morning all
<selinuxium> Morning all
<selinuxium> Erm... Google.co.uk .... Human Centipede? O_o
<DJones> bigcalm: What did you think of the S3 now its been announced/reviewed etc
<DJones> Happy star wars day btw
<dwatkins> May the forth be with you all
<bigcalm> Good morning all and happy 4th May :)
<bigcalm> DJones: my irssi proxy emailed me when you mentioned me as I wasn't yet connected to it. Really like that :)
<bigcalm> DJones: yes, I'm looking forward to having a sgs3 in my hands to compare to the htc1x
<bigcalm> The htc1x is big to hold, hoping that the sgs3 is a little more comfortable
<DJones> Looking at the spec's, it looks to be about 1/2 cm longer/wider than my Desire HD
<bigcalm> The same with my nexus one. Hope that t-mobile have dummy handsets in their shops soon
<DJones> Must admit, I'm 50:50 whether to change phones & get an S3 (or better) when my contract is due in November, or just to keep this phone and just go with a giffgaff sim
<bigcalm> My contract was due to renewal at the begining of April
<bigcalm> The waiting is terrible
<DJones> Heh, yeah, I was like that last time, I waited for the HD to come out for a couple of months
<bigcalm> Yikes
<bigcalm> The s3 is wider and taller than the 1x
<bigcalm> Though slightly thinner
<DJones> How does it compare to the Note?
<bigcalm> htc1x 134.4 x 69.9 x 8.9 mm
<bigcalm> sgs3 136.6 x 70.6 x 8.6mm
<DJones> Whats a couple of mm between friends
<bigcalm> note 146.9 x 83 x 9.7 mm
<DJones> Not much between the htc & the S3 then
<bigcalm> Well, I find the htc1x uncomfortable to hold. So the handset I chose will now be down to what's in it
<DJones> Heh, 1st 1000 order for the S3 at carphone warehouse get a free Galaxy Tab
<bigcalm> DJones: that's what Alan Lord did
<bigcalm> I'm happy with my Xoom, so don't have a need
<DJones> bigcalm: http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/samsung-galaxy-s3-vs-htc-one-x-vs-iphone-4s
<bigcalm> Looks like I'm not working this morning then :P
<DJones> :)
<bigcalm> I wonder by whom the reviews are trusted
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Can you .htaccess a symlinked dir ?
<bigcalm> diplo: if the .htaccess rules in the parent directory say so
<diplo> IE website is /srv/www/html and I have a symlinked dir from /srv/dir to /srv/www/html/dir
<bigcalm> Follow symlinks
<bigcalm> Or something similar
<bigcalm> Try it :)
<diplo> Yep, all on :)
<diplo> I have, can't get it to work.. just wanted to make sure I read it right
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<DJones> bigcalm: http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1059098/vs05-03_20-02-41x1020_gallery_post.jpg Looking at that, I prefer the HTC
<bigcalm> Yeah
<diplo> thehtc the onex ?
<bigcalm> Though I did like the look of the s2
<diplo> Sister is debating ordering the S3 this weekend
<bigcalm> I have a month to mull it over
<diplo> I defo want my next phone to have no buttons at the bottom though
<smittix> Morning all.
<oimon> it makes me laugh when people scream "we want games on linux". then there's news about EA , and the haters go "not those games!"
<bigcalm> And the release day is while we're in Northern Ireland to celebrate Hayley's 40th birthday
<diplo> I have big chubby fingers and keep hitting the hard buttons at the bottom
<diplo> heh oimon - Always going to be some isn't there.
<DJones> diplo: Now you've said that, smething I've never noticed is that mine doesn't have a button at the bottom
<oimon> diplo, yeah, and vocal too. looks like reddit tells a lot of people what to think
<bigcalm> I'm used to having the ball on my nexus one
<diplo> I have a wildfire and the little butons at the bottom get hit all the time
<bigcalm> Which is handy when the touch interface goes crazy if I'm lying in bed
<oimon> does it?
<bigcalm> Oh, those buttons. I like them on my n1
<oimon> bigcalm, ah, if you have it under the covers then condensation forms on the screen
<BigRedS> I do keep wishing my galaxy2 had more buttons than just the iPhone one
<bigcalm> oimon: indeed, but this is out side of the covers. Starts off ok and then slowly goes crazy
<oimon> hmm
<BigRedS> bigcalm: mine does that sometimes on charge. Hasn't since I changed the USB cable i was using
<bigcalm> Again, this is while it's unplugged (I don't think it makes a difference for me)
<bigcalm> Goodness I'm tired
<JamesTait> Happy Star Wars Day! *8OD
<bigcalm> JamesTait: 4th May be with you
<JamesTait> bigcalm: And you. :)
<bigcalm> http://vimeo.com/40539993
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<wintellect> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi wintellect
<dogmatic69> anyone know why my servers wlan0 keeps disconnecting? its been fine for a whole month, now 4 times in two days I have had to sudo ifdown wlan0 && sudo ifup wlan0 to make it work again
<dogmatic69> is there anything I can look at to see what is causing this?
<oimon> anything in dmesg?
<oimon> or /var/log/syslog?
<dogmatic69> one sec. I will go check
 * dogmatic69 takes the kb with :/
<dogmatic69> oimon: would it be [61650.020019] wlan0: authentication with c0:d0:44:48:e7:b5 timed out
<dogmatic69> oimon: this is the last bit of dmesg http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1625039826
<dogmatic69> funny how it connected right before I plugged the kb in
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> have some nice easy Lp questions if folks wnat to help
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/195927
<czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/195898
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you have slashdotted the lp database
<czajkowski> nah time of day for maintence
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> prod czajkowski
<czajkowski> poke
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2, how's your health?
<davmor2> bigcalm: much better, still a fair bit of pain but I got a lot of movement back, thanks you?
<bigcalm> davmor2: glad to hear that you're recovering. I'm ok ta, have that Friday feeling but too much to do as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but mondays is a day off too so that was nice
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> Or will be nice
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> from the London Mozspace :)
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
<mattt> morning guys
<brobostigon> morning mattt
<mattt> brobostigon: how you this morning?
<brobostigon> mattt: headache the size of saturn. and you?
<mattt> brobostigon: off this week, so doing alright :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: That sounds like a fantastic name for a geek night club
<brobostigon> mattt: :)
<mattt> AlanBell: is that place open to the public?
<AlanBell> open to geeks :)
<AlanBell> it is really good
<mattt> free to use?  :P
<AlanBell> http://thenextweb.com/uk/2012/03/23/a-look-inside-mozillas-new-london-co-working-space/
<AlanBell> yeah, it is amazing
<mattt> wow, looks great
<mattt> great place for meetups, etc. too
<ali1234> http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/03/bikeshed200.jpg i don't like this sign
<ali1234> it should be blue
<BigRedS> blue?
<bigcalm> Orange isn't an Ubuntu exclusive colour you know :P
<Myrtti> ali1234: haha
<AlanBell> but I think someone should paint it green
<directhex> tee hee @ ali1234
<gordonjcp> ali1234: heh ;-)
<AlanBell> it looks exactly like that with the same one bike on the wall
<AlanBell> this place is quite empty but very nicely finished
<brobostigon> it seems con-dem, have kinda took the hit, i predicted yesterday.
<brobostigon> and some labour and green increases.
<bigcalm> Getting this as a daily email from my proliant server: http://paste.ubuntu.com/966685/
<bigcalm> Not sure what I need to do
<BigRedS> bigcalm: check what the postrotate script for mysql does and see why it's failing
<BigRedS> /etc/logrotate.d/mysql  will have the script in it
<BigRedS> er .../mysql-server
<cesarsdquadros> hello
<cesarsdquadros> give me some help here
<cesarsdquadros> someone to answer?
<bigcalm> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<bigcalm> !patients
<cesarsdquadros> i'm from brazil, working on brazilian army, we use ubuntu 10.04 lts
<cesarsdquadros> and when i open
<cesarsdquadros> the "terminal" don't appear any word like ubuntu@ubuntudesktop ~
<cesarsdquadros> and i can't write anything too
<cesarsdquadros> what is wrong
<cesarsdquadros>  i'm from brazil, working on brazilian army, we use ubuntu 10.04 lts  and when i open  the "terminal" don't appear any word like ubuntu@ubuntudesktop ~ and i can't write anything too  what is wrong
<cesarsdquadros> oh i have discover what is the mistake, is the colors of the terminal, i get use the color of the system sorry for the inconvenience. att. Pvt Quadros. 26 GAC - Brazil
<AlanBell> ni cesarsdquadros
<AlanBell> hi even
<AlanBell> great to hear that Brazil is using Ubuntu :)
<jpds> AlanBell: Didn't know you became a knight.
<AlanBell> I just like to say ni
<bigcalm> Everybody should say ni
<bigcalm> Just don't say it
<cesarsdquadros> We from brazilian army, use the ubuntu yes :D since the 9.04  and we are sattisfacted. with the evolution of linux and ubuntu debian versions, it's free! and the better OS on world
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> BigRedS: the debian-sys-maint user password needed updating - I had copied all of the databases from my old dev server to my new one. Including the mysql db
<BigRedS> ahhh!
<BigRedS> yeah, that'll do it :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptang Zoo Boing Zow Zing
<bigcalm> davmor2: nasty twitch you've got there
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://borepatch.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/we-are-no-longer-knights-who-say-ni.html
<DJones> When people complain about Ubuntu not supporting playind DVD's OTB, can we refer them to this in future http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/45545/no-dvd-playback-for-windows-8
<DJones> s/playind/playing/
<BigRedS> as sort-of implied in that article, do many people try to watch DVDs on a computer still?
<DJones> I never have, but I'm sure some do
<Myrtti> we even bought the Limited Edition set of Harry Potters just because it came with both DVD and Bluray
<Myrtti> I don't have a TV or DVD player at my apartment, but I do have a DVD drive on my laptops.
<BigRedS> yeah, I watch films on computers sometimes, I just don't use DVDs to do it
<shauno> I took the dvd drive out my laptop a week after I got it.  much more valuable as a second sata bay :)
<BigRedS> Anyone know of a way to print a dump of all the code to be executed by a PHP file, including include()d code and the like?
<bigcalm> Includes might be conditional
<BigRedS> yeah, but I just want a dump of the code, so I figure the entirety of the included file can go in the conditional
<BigRedS> get_included_files does what I want, though
<BigRedS> I was just wondering which file might be breaking a page that somebody else wrote
<BigRedS> though they seem to have fixed it now
<DJones> bigcalm: Sorry to interrupt the work, start of this video is interesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9718735.stm
<bigcalm> DJones: so the camera is on all the time to drain the battery?
<DJones> Not sure, I can't see it
 * Myrtti â¥ christel
<MooDoo> *yawn*
 * AlanBell haz many many Ubuntu 12.04 CDs
 * AlanBell pops to the post box with the pre-orders
 * AlanBell has no raspberry pi :(
<AlanBell> popey: did yours arrive?
<MartijnVdS> isn't popey on the other side of the world?
<AlanBell> yes, but if it arrived I will pop round and collect it from @therealpopey
<mattt> aww, Adam Yauch from beastie boys has passed away :(
<MartijnVdS> MCA
<gordonjcp> mattt: :-/
<bigcalm> :O :(
<buzz_> mattt, :(
<czajkowski> gord: I have bickies and tea bags for you
<kvarley> How would I go about doing the following? I want to find all files with a certain file extension and extract only those files from the archive. The archives are in rar format.
<gordonjcp> what, extract only certain files from the archive?
<gordonjcp> have a look at the options that unrar gives you
<AlanBell> http://mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/buy-yourself-something-pretty/
<AlanBell> 12.04 loco CDs have arrived, if you want one then you can have one http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<zleap> cool
<kvarley> gordonjcp: Found a forum post on it. Thanks anyway
<zleap> hi issyl0
<ali1234> ok so win8 won't play dvds... will it play blu-ray?
<DJones> ali1234:  For optical discs playback on new Windows 8 devices, we are going to rely on the many quality solutions on the market, which provide great experiences for both DVD and Blu-ray."
<ali1234> so no?
<DJones> Doesn't look like it with out buying/installing after market software
<DJones> In other words: If you want to watch that Bridesmaids DVD on your next plane trip, you're going to have to pay extra for software that will let you play it, even if your laptop already has a DVD drive. And don't think getting Blu-ray is an option â you can't play that straight from the box, either.
<ali1234> so in other words exactly the same as the situation on ubuntu?
<DJones> That is all from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/windows-8-dropping-ability-play-dvds-171546904.html
<MartijnVdS> Yay patent wars
<DJones> ali1234: Yep
<ali1234> likely this is a calculated ploy to get people to use windows marketplace
<ali1234> they will probably "relent" 1 week after release and put something on there for free
<DJones> Although, Ubuntu may be better off, that will play non-encrypted dvds by dfault won't it, from the sound of it Win 8 won't play dvd's period
<ali1234> thus forcing everyone to sign up
<DJones> Or install VLC
<ali1234> unencrypted dvds on totem? lol
<ali1234> VLC won't be allowed in the marketplace
<zleap> ali1234, won't that cause problems with competition laws if only certain software is allowed in there
<ali1234> er, no?
<AlanBell> no
<ali1234> didn't cause problems for android or iphone or mac os
<ali1234> or meego or ubuntu
<AlanBell> vlc removed themselves from the apple store
<zleap> ok
<AlanBell> http://www.tuaw.com/2011/01/08/vlc-app-removed-from-app-store/
<ali1234> well yes
<AlanBell> bit more complicated than I stated
<ali1234> if apple or microsoft says "you can't put GPL software in the app store"
<ali1234> then the developer has a choice between relicencing or removing it from the app store
<ali1234> intel's appup T&C are really bizarre
<ali1234> they have standard stuff that makes it impossible to ship GPL software
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, imagine
<ali1234> then a clause which completely contradicts all that and basically says "oh yeah btw you can put GPL software in here too"
<ali1234> so basically their T&C is not internally inconsistent
<ali1234> and it happened because someone pointed out that the T&C would prevent GPL, so they just slapped a band aid on it
<MartijnVdS> because GPLs are teh evals!
<funkyHat> Sounds like an exception rather than an inconsistency
<Azelphur> funkyHat: the GPL says stuff that conflicts with the license, so if you allow one of them has to be nullified
<ali1234> http://create.msdn.com/downloads/?id=638 see sections 1. L and 5. E
<mattt> anyone buy any oreilly books today?
<popey> ivanka: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/984088
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 984088 in linux (Ubuntu) "Upon resuming from suspend messages appear in tty" [Medium,Triaged]
<AlanBell> night all
<brobostigon> night AlanBell o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-05
<spiritech> hi
<spiritech> if i am running compiz, metacity and cairo-dock is there any need for me to have gnome or unity desktop installed?
<spiritech> ??
<spiritech> do i even need metacity and compiz installed together?
<spiritech> or can i just have compiz installed?
<spiritech> well i am removing metacity and rebooting to find out. so fingers crossed.
<spiritech> i have removed metacity and rebooted, all is still well. :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<mattt> morning
<AlanBell> czajkowski: hi
<popey> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> see you shortly popey
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you at the aiprort?
 * czajkowski is sitting in the ounge having a bacon roll 
<AlanBell> 7czheading out now
<AlanBell> nom
<czajkowski> coolio
<czajkowski> I start bording at 9:30
<czajkowski> am on the upper deck on the virgin flight :D
<popey> someone else went on the top deck and got seasick
<czajkowski> really?
<czajkowski> hmm fingers crossed so
<dogmatic69> why does updates no longer require pw?
<dogmatic69> second time now that I have not had to enter a pw to update
<sagaci> it's likely that you recently entered your password
<sagaci> thus it's not nagging you again
<dogmatic69> no, just started up
<dogmatic69> besides say a month back, even if I just entered it updates always required a pw
<head_victim> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Update_Manager_doesn.27t_prompt_for_security_updates
<dogmatic69> just found http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1973069
<dogmatic69> its only for installing now
<popey> and so to bed
<dogmatic69> anyone used gimp 2.8 on 12.04?
<gord> oh oh, i have
<dogmatic69> I just installed it
<dogmatic69> the splash screen is nice. no single window :/
<dogmatic69> I am dissapoint
<dogmatic69> found the option \o/
<gord> single window should be default really
<dogmatic69> ye, I think they dont do that as people are used to the old way
 * AlanBell is in the airport
<AlanBell> playing where's wally looking for czajkowski
<SuperEngineer> dogmatic69: [from the release notes] GIMP 2.8 introduces an optional single-window mode. You can toggle between the default multi-window mode and the new single-window mode through the Single-window mode checkbox in the Windows menu.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: boo
<czajkowski> AlanBell: where are you now?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: am gonna head to boots in 5 mins as need to get some stuff
<AlanBell> czajkowski I was in dixons not buying stuff, I will try to find boots
<czajkowski> ok
<gord> AlanBell, czajkowski bring treats for gord! flumps!
<AlanBell> if you make.hud work with orca :)
<AlanBell> leverage is hreat
<AlanBell> can't find boots. you are in T5 czajkowski?
<tsimpson> an airport without a boots? such a thing can't exist!
<AlanBell> I found boots, but czajkowski.is in T3!
<tsimpson> at least you can both smell nice when you finally meet up
<AlanBell> quit fragrant
<MartijnVdS> flagrant?
<jacobw> good morning
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> How does one upgrade a 10.04 server to 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> do-release-upgrade
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> iain@banana:~$ sudo do-release-upgrade
<bigcalm> Checking for a new ubuntu release
<bigcalm> No new release found
<bigcalm> :S
<MartijnVdS> which mirror are you using?
<MartijnVdS> you may need to enable the 'updates' repository first as well
<MartijnVdS> so you get post-release updates (non-security)
<MartijnVdS> but I don't know that for sure
<bigcalm> This is on my Bytemark VM. I thought they used their own mirrors, but sources.list seems to point at us.archive.ubuntu.com
<brobostigon> i think there are more parameters, like -r
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have 12.04 on mine :)
<jacobw> they definately use their own mirrors
<bigcalm> I can upgrade 10.04->10.10->11.04->11.10->12.04 by setting the Prompt in release-upgrades to normal
<bigcalm> But leaving it set to lts gives me nothing :(
<hamitron> is there a rush to upgrade a server?
<hamitron> 3 years left
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> That's not helpful
<hamitron> yeh :/
<brobostigon> reckon my eeepc, will be able to boot off a usb dvd drive ?
<bigcalm> Yes
<brobostigon> :) yay
<bigcalm> Ah, it's a known thingy
<bigcalm> Will be able to do it with 12.04.1
 * bigcalm waits until July then
<azmodie> clear
<bigcalm> Maybe it's time to attempt a 12.04 upgrade on my work station
<bigcalm> It's that or get work done
<penguin42> and we can't have that
<bigcalm> It is Saturday
<bigcalm> But I have so much to do (always so much to do)
<bigcalm> Now chatting via my irssi proxy (rather than xchat) and I feel as though I'm back in 1997
 * bigcalm notes that there isn't much chatting to be had
<jacobw> i like irssi
 * hamitron hates IRC.... seems to be a too gooda distraction
<bigcalm> hamitron: if you don't like IRC, why are you using it?
<hamitron> because it is good
<hamitron> ;)
 * bigcalm tuts at your confusion
<hamitron> you've never talked on IRC instead of getting on with work that should be done?
<hamitron> ;D
<bigcalm> Everyday :)
<bigcalm> Which is why some days I don't open xchat
<hamitron> that is probably a good idea
<bigcalm> Yay 12.04
<popey> morning
<SuperEngineer> popey: you'll have to talk louder - it appears nobody can hear you from there ;)
<SuperEngineer> o/
<popey> :Ã¾
<bigcalm> popey: HELLO!
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> What's new?
<popey> breakfast was new
<popey> until I ate it
<bigcalm> Nandos and Avengers Assemble soon :D
<simon__> Hi, I really need some help enlarging the pointer size on 12.04, I have followed this http://askubuntu.com/questions/126491/how-do-i-change-the-cursor-and-its-size and created a .Xresources but it wont work. It's an upgrade for a partially sighted person and this is a real show stopper... help?
<MartijnVdS> simon__: did you do the update-alternatives thing/
<MartijnVdS> simon__: then log out and back in again?
<MartijnVdS> also, dconf-editor + logout/back in
<DJones> simon__: This may well help http://askubuntu.com/questions/126491/how-do-i-change-the-cursor-and-its-size
<MartijnVdS> DJones: he said he followed it
<DJones> Ah yes, my eyes scrolled past that :)
<simon__> yeah, thanks but it doesn't work
<simon__> i have been so full of praise for ubuntu but this is really frustrating, it should be such a simple thing
<MartijnVdS> can you make sure both settings are done?
<MartijnVdS> also.. .Xresources? That's _old_
<simon__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxfa2fXJ1Wc
<MartijnVdS> that guy doesn't know what he's talking about
<simon__> ^ that vid says you need to use .Xresources too
<simon__> oh right
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> nvidia?
<MartijnVdS> can you put the output of the "update-alternatives" command on pastebin?
<simon__> sure
<MartijnVdS> Also, tell us what's in the "cursor-size" and cursor-theme dconf settings?
<MartijnVdS> (capitalization is important)
<daftykins> that's pretty shocking that it's not just in GUI settings
<simon__> http://pastebin.com/GA1x0bLc
<simon__> ^ there's my update-alternatives
<MartijnVdS> simon__: did the cursor colour change to black?
<MartijnVdS> simon__: after logging out and back in?
<simon__> yes
<MartijnVdS> OK so that bit works
<MartijnVdS> and the dconf keys?
<simon__> then I loaded dconf Editor and go 'org.gnome.desktop.interface'
<simon__> cursor-size 64
<simon__> and cursor-theme DMZ-Black
<simon__> one of them is working because when I load firefox the cursor suddenly gets bigger
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a bug to me
<simon__> I think that's the dconf
<daftykins> was there a fix for that blue colours in videos online thing?
<daftykins> or was it just nvidia drivers
<daftykins> someone asking in #ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that's just nvidia being poo (as always)
<daftykins> i'll bet it's more OSS changing things and them being expected to catch up ;D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: they don't even do xrandr yet!
<daftykins> only time i've used that is to rotate a screen :>
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: sure the tool.. but the "multiple displays" bit also uses that
<MartijnVdS> "2 desktop monitors", "laptop at a conference/presentation"
<daftykins> tool?
<MartijnVdS> command-line tool
<MartijnVdS> xrandr
<daftykins> oh as in you're saying what i already knew, that i used it directly rather than that nvidia haven't caught up to make their GUI tools make use of it?
<MartijnVdS> but the extension is also used by the graphical "set up monitors/resolution" bit
<daftykins> yarr
<simon__> ok I'm going to try a few changes and reboot etc. see if some combination of cursor will work, thanks for the help
<daftykins> oh wells
<MartijnVdS> simon__: if you can't get it to work, please file a bug
<simon__> I will, that's 3 serious bugs for accessibility to report, two of which were fine in 11.04!
<MartijnVdS> :(
<simon__> (the menu on the far right with all the shut down options etc. disappears if you use high contrast)
<spiritech> hi
<spiritech> can anyone tell me the best options for running compiz and cairo dock?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Oakland Ubuntu Folks: Severed Fifth Playing Tonight - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/05/oakland-ubuntu-folks-severed-fifth-playing-tonight/
<MooDoo> hello all
<jacobw> hi
<martii> :)
<martii> hi
<yothsoggoth> hello
<martii> :) is any of you having amd a4 based laptop?
<martii> I just installed Precise and my HP 4535s seems to be much too noisy
<mattt> evening
<jacobw> evenage
<czajkowski> gord: I've tea bags and digestives
<penguin42> chocolate digestives?
<czajkowski> no plain of course for dunking
<penguin42> czajkowski: I'll admit to being neither a tea drinker or dunker; but wouldn't a thin slightly plasticy layer on your digestive allow you to dunk for longer without the biscuit falling to bits?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> heavier
<czajkowski> dunks and falls in
<penguin42> hmm
 * penguin42 suspects that depends on the temperature of your tea
 * yothsoggoth thinks that it's all about practice; timing is everything with biscuit dunking!
 * hamitron likes to dunk chocolate digestives
<yothsoggoth> seems pretty quiet on here tonight
<czajkowski> lots of folks asleep or travellingor in the usa
<yothsoggoth> good point, I didn't realise the time!
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> gosh is that the time!
<penguin42> AlanBell: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-16638217  not this Alan Bell?
<AlanBell> an imposter!
<penguin42> AlanBell: Well, you could go and do some timing....
<AlanBell> I might end up doing something
<AlanBell> they have interviewed me but not assigned any task yet
<AlanBell> I might get a few jobs driving a BMW around London or something
<penguin42> we'll know it's you if the 100m is won in 13.37 seconds
#ubuntu-uk 2012-05-06
<AlanBell> lol
<OmNomDePlume> AlanBell, my Welsh friend.
<OmNomDePlume> Are you following the snooker?
<ali1234> why does vlc have an indicator?
<ali1234> and when they were designing it, why did they think it would be a good idea to include a control for playback speed?
<gord> i would assume vlc has an indicator because it had a system tray icon
<AlanBell> well I think I have stayed up long enough now
 * Laney phases back in
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> howdy, Knightwise
<popey>   morning
<MartijnVdS> evening popey
<Knightwise> popey: Can i book you for an interview on a wednesday evening ?
<Knightwise> I've been chasing and staling you for quite some time :p
<Knightwise> hey MartijnVdS good morning
<popey> Knightwise: hey, tricky, i am in oakland, so evening for you is daytime for me
<Knightwise> i was thinking somewhere wednesday , in two weeks ,
<popey> oh sorry
<popey> thought you meant this wednesday
<popey> sure
<popey> and now bed
<Knightwise> how about :  Sunday the 13th at 9am
<Knightwise> OR
<Knightwise> Wednesday the 23rd between 1900 and 2200 hours (i'm gmt plus 1)
<mattt> morning
<mattt> pretty interesting blog post: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/05/05/python-faq-webdev/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jacobw> good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning jacobw
 * jacobw is digesting this week's political occurances
<brobostigon> the start of the con-dem downfall, yes.
<jacobw> i was distressed by seeing a link of google news to a telegraph article entitled 'how boris johnson could become to next conservative prime minister'
<brobostigon> that would be funny, him pm.
<SuperEngineer> or as Mark Shuttlewoth said: "We know that we are sort of dancing naked through a minefield and there are much bigger institutions driving tanks through,"
<jacobw> i was like, 'what?! i've been out of the UK for a few days, what's happening?!'
<tsimpson> boris would never become PM, we only take a joke so far ;)
<jacobw> hehe
<brobostigon> yeah :)
<mattt> that'd be downright scary :(
<mattt> boris being PM is a bit like GWB being president
<mattt> and no one needs to see that again
<jacobw> it would be embarrassing
<gordonjcp> how do I get the thing that lets me enter a path up, in the file viewer in 12.04?
<ali1234> press ctrl-l
<gordonjcp> ali1234: ah, thanks
<gordonjcp> it's annoying that the thing on the toolbar is gone
<jacobw> quantal
<jacobw> i like it
<AlanBell> morning all
<Flashtek> what an annoying buglet that was..
<Flashtek> kernel issue stopped my WiFi from working... which meant I was unable to upgrade the kernel via WiFi to fix the problem to get WiFi working to upgrade to fix the problem to......
<Flashtek> good job I have ethernet available on this laptop too...
<maddog320> hello
<Flashtek> hey maddog320
<ali1234> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=e4bfd2ff060b89b2b7119bcb6a5c6bfb02815601
<ali1234> considering that was only fixed yesterday, why can't i reproduce it in ubuntu?
<maddog320> hi all
<gordonjcp> christel: happy birthday, btw!
<Neoti_Laptop> hello all.... been a while.. hows peeps
 * SuperEngineer  breathes deep sigh of relief -after yonks of me asking "why not" - my sister has just "converted" her netbook to Ubuntu
<SuperEngineer>  ...next stop -the desktop pooter
 * SuperEngineer develops evil plan
<SuperEngineer> ssshhhhhh .... gosh - the channel is quiet today
 * dogmatic69 bangs some pots
 * DJones lets off the fire alarm.... Everybody out
<SuperEngineer> run! oops - sorry - walk calmly to nearest exit
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17916879   BBC short interview with Mark Shuttleworth - good reading
<SuperEngineer> but don't read it till you've calmly waled to nearest exit & left the building
<currymonster> Anybody know how to change default boot entry in grub?
<popey> morning
<tombrough> pre grub 2 default =
<tombrough> post grub 2 set default =
<currymonster> tombrough: where do i find the config file?
<tombrough> /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<currymonster> cheers
<tombrough> if its ubuntu
<currymonster> yup it's ubuntu
<tombrough> good luck ;-)
<currymonster> ty
<currymonster> damm i cant figure it out
<currymonster> unless
<DJones> currymonster: I've not used this, just found it be searching, but sounds a fair bit simpler https://help.ubuntu.com/community/StartUpManager
<currymonster> DJones: thanks, i'll try that
<DJones> I can't seem to find it for 12.04 though
<yothsoggoth> Perhaps this will be helpful: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Configuring_GRUB_2
<SuperEngineer> DJones: I used to use StartUpmanager a lobng time ago - till I found [the hard way] what happens when the original option you chose changed to a different image - system fail -reinstal grub from live Cd needed
<SuperEngineer> *long
<DJones> SuperEngineer: From what I can see, it went out of fashion when grub1 went of fashion
<SuperEngineer> DJones: it certainly is out of fashion... I'm glad.
<SuperEngineer> but grub is still cool
<SuperEngineer> disclaimer - "other boot managers are available"
<SuperEngineer> guffaw
<Flashtek> tombrough = the tombrough I know from  #DCLUG ?
 * SuperEngineer is glad to hear it's not in 12.04 repsitory
<currymonster> brb
<jacobw> lilo is really old now
<moreati> but it's heavily patched, so it doesn't leak
<SuperEngineer> How to regain control of the panel's notification area in 12.04 http://imagebin.org/211313  ;)
<jacobw> yes, there's a whitelist of applications that can display system tray icons
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: [no white list needed] just dconf editor and 5 taps of a keyboeard ;)
<jacobw> systray-whitelist ['update-notifier','foo','bar']
<SuperEngineer> dconf editor 'all'
<SuperEngineer> simples
<SuperEngineer> 'all' being added to correct key of course
<jacobw> yus
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... found a new bug in bug in 12.04 screen display - I can see it walking across screen now - its got wings as well!
<SuperEngineer> new bug fixing method - blow at bug - it flies away ;)
<penguin42> ah yes, a mobile ,
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> cruel tricks time [popy's away in USA]... you post a single liner that says....
<SuperEngineer> OMG - Minecraft's been bought by Microsoft  and closed down!
 * SuperEngineer sniggers
<penguin42> OMG - Rhythmbox in QQ only plays Jonathan Cage
<SuperEngineer> [yeh, cruel I know]
<SuperEngineer> Google has blacklisted Mark Shuttleworth!
<SuperEngineer> [or is that just too cruel for a popey to read when jetlag goes]
<penguin42> hehe
<DJones> popey: Like the photo you posted of a Quetzal on twitter
<SuperEngineer> http://twitter.com/popey/status/199183386512850944/photo/1
<DJones> And for all you Pi fans http://themagpi.wordpress.com/ popey TheOpenSourcerer  etc
<SuperEngineer> And for allyou fans of good quotes [MarkShuttleworth in BBC News interview]....
<SuperEngineer> We know that we are sort of dancing naked through a minefield and there are much bigger institutions driving tanks throughâ
<DJones> SuperEngineer: I thought that was a wonderful line
 * SuperEngineer goes looking for a minefield - feels like doing some naked dancing
 * DJones passes the mind bleach around
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<arsen> here's an interesting one - anyone have any experience of setting up a webcam security system? like one or two webcams, hooked up to some simple ubuntu box, rsyncing images to a web server every min or something?
<DJones> arsen: I set up a live webcam using "motion" a few years back, that worked reasonably well, I didn't do any syncing to a webserver, but I hgad access via a web browser
<DJones> !mn Star Wars - [The Clone Wars - Secret Missions 01] - Breakout Squad, by Ryder Windham (epub).rar
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> !mn Star Wars - [The Clone Wars - Secret Missions 02] - Curse of the Black Hole Pirates, by Ryder Windham (epub).rarUgh
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> arsen: There's also this that may help http://popey.com/blog/2010/12/20/my-ubuntu-webcam-setup/
<arsen> DJones   - yeah i read something about that
<arsen> oh cool.
<DJones> Thats the right cut & paste
<arsen> basically my parents are building a house, i fancied setting up a webcam to do security on site, and also for later on to do a timelapse video :)
<arsen> the site has internet, which is abnormal, so i figure some small machine (pogoplug or something?) plus a webcam or two, and rsync to my webserver for watching! :)
<DJones> Sounds an interesting project
<arsen> yeah, figure it could be fun
<arsen> there's a site office (a little pikey trailer..) with internet, gona see what i can whip up, get it setup and running and courier it to them to plug and go!
<DJones> Heh, sombody will probably point the camera in the onsite toilet :)
<arsen> likely.
<arsen> gona get two, one facing the house so i can get criminals and a timelapse of the house going up
<arsen> and one of the entrance :d
<arsen> be nice if i can goto the house's website and view its progress too.
<arsen> looks like popey has done exactly what i was aiming for.
<arsen> could probably add an rsync / cron delete to clean up archived and ensure it's backed up elsewhere.
<arsen> so now i need some hardware!
<SuperEngineer> the answer is not always in the bottom of a beer glass - sometimes it is! - drink plenty - you will eventually find that glass with the answer at the bottom ;-)
<arsen> so a dreamplug and logitech c910 :D
<arsen> sounds cool.
<arsen> dreamplug is awesome, can deffo see some uses for that afterwards!
<SuperEngineer> ...but a Ubuntu glass is likely to have that answer at the bottomm of the 1st glass ;0
<awilkins> Anyone else already getting flash content that refuses to play on the latest available Flash player?
<penguin42> haven't seen any, but most of mine is youtube
<DJones> awilkins: have you got an example website
<awilkins> https://drive.google.com/start#home
<awilkins> I also keep getting pages on the register downloading the SWF files instead of playing ads
<DJones> That works for me
<awilkins> Hmm.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And me.
<penguin42> fine here
<awilkins> Ok, something is up then
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening all vtw
<penguin42> hmm, but is that using Flash for me?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\v\b
<penguin42> I'm not getting any right click menu on that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Says about Flash Player 11.2.202.233...
<DJones> I don't get a right click menu when in Chromium
 * TheOpenSourcerer is using Firefox
 * penguin42 is using Chromium
<DJones> switching to firefox gives me the same right click menu
<penguin42> I suspect it's using HTML5 rather than Flash
<DJones> But version 11.2.202.235
<penguin42> yeh, same version here in ff
<DJones> I think I had an update earlier today
<SuperEngineer> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<SuperEngineer> Dear BBC Weather feed site: you cannot convince me it is currently: Sunday at 19:00 BST: sunny. 10Â°C (50Â°F).... I win - you loose
<DJones> Somewhere it'll be 10C and 1900 BST
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..but 24 hrs ahead?!
 * SuperEngineer is pretending it's stll Saturday btw
<Monotoko> it's okay, bank holiday tomorrow!
<SuperEngineer> ...but either way way- it aain't 19:00 - unless t'internet has *really* slowed down
<SuperEngineer> Monotoko: if it's still Saturday - how can the bank hol be tomorrow?
 * SuperEngineer still wants it to still be yesterday
<SuperEngineer> [makes the weekend last longer]
<mattt> SuperEngineer: what are you on about
<Monotoko> SuperEngineer, ahhh fair point ;)
<Monotoko> I once had a bug where my computer told me it was 105:30
<SuperEngineer> ...I'm gauging a "response" as to what might happen if, on Tuesady a.m., I decided to stay in bed & convince the boss that -he- is wrong, not me ;)
<mattt> like that advert
<SuperEngineer> ...&so far - sounds promising
<mattt> where they weird the boss out, and send him home
<SuperEngineer> you got it!
<Monotoko> Tell no-one to turn up... then when he rings "You woke me up! This better be good, I'm having my Sunday morning lie in"
<SuperEngineer> Monotoko: [anyone got a horse custume & near boss's addess? - that would do it!]
<SuperEngineer> ooo - well I never - just checked calendar & it's actually *Friday* evening
 * SuperEngineer wondewrs if that might be pushing luck too far... ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You don't have the password to your ntp server do you?
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> oops: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/apple-security-blunder-exposes-lion-login-passwords-in-clear-text/11963
<bigcalm> !ccm
<bigcalm> !cmm
<bigcalm> :|
<Monotoko> penguin42, you read HN? :P
<DJones> bigcalm: Which one are you looking for
<DJones>  !ccsm only has an extra "s"
<lubotu3> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<penguin42> Monotoko: No, that one came via /.
<Monotoko> penguin42, ahhh... it's at the top of HN at the moment as well XD
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> !ccsm
<lubotu3> To enable advanced customization of desktop effects in Ubuntu: install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' (or 'simple-ccsm' for pre-Oneiric). If you install the latter, a new option will appear in your appearance properties - See also !compiz - Help in #compiz
<bigcalm> I need more than 4 workspaces
 * penguin42 always runs with 9
<bigcalm> I was told to look at that
<DJones> http://askubuntu.com/questions/34572/how-can-i-reduce-or-increase-the-number-of-workspaces-in-unity
<SuperEngineer> on the assumption that tomorrow is Saturay ;
<SuperEngineer> 0 - i'll see yuz all tommorrow :0
<SuperEngineer> bfn
<DJones> bigcalm: That myunity does the job very simply
<bigcalm> DJones: just installed, worked a treat. Thanks :)
<DJones> You're welcome
<ali1234> linking to arch linux documentation on ask ubuntu questions... lol
<awilkins> Ugh, Ralink driver code is rubbish
<awilkins> "if this, then do thing x. else, also do thing x"
 * awilkins slaps ralink with a wet haddock
<MooDoo> evening all
<miky0870> mythtv-users
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-29
<redtape> Good moro Good Sirs !   |     Today is haircut day !
<knightwise> morning everyone !
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
<knightwise> how are you today.. at work or getting ready to get wasted tonight
<MartijnVdS> neither :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: you using 13.04 ?
<MartijnVdS> of course :)
<knightwise> could you do me a favor ?
<MartijnVdS> maybe
<knightwise> could you try to install easytag ?
<knightwise> I get a dependency error when I do it and was wondering if it was related to my machine
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Uitpakken van easytag (uit .../easytag_2.1.7-2_amd64.deb) ...
<MartijnVdS> Instellen van easytag (2.1.7-2) ...
<MartijnVdS> now problems here
<MartijnVdS> no problems, even.
<knightwise> did you do an apt-get install ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<knightwise> ok ,then I'll just have to see whats wrong with the install at home
<knightwise> i'll look up the error code
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if you could pastebin the error :)
<knightwise> Don't have the machine handy right now (its the IBM thinkpad I have)
<MartijnVdS> IBM? That's *old* ;)
<knightwise> its a lenovo thinkpad e212e
<knightwise> i212e
<knightwise> 11.6 inch , I3
<MartijnVdS> Lenovo is newer :)
<knightwise> its a cool piece of kit
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for intel's new 'haswell' CPUs
<MartijnVdS> then I'm buying a new (desktop) PC
<knightwise> hey steve
<SuperMatt> I'm not steve :(
<knightwise> hey siriusly (he is steve)
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt !
<knightwise> how are you guys doing ? :)
<SuperMatt> my thighs hurt
<knightwise> Lol
<knightwise> been slapping the stairmaster silly again ?
<SuperMatt> no, I went for a run in my local park for the first time. I had no idea how hilly it is
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: how long was your run?
<MartijnVdS> running = teh cools :)
<SuperMatt> 1.72 miles
<MartijnVdS> NIce distance for a first run.. first run ever?
<SuperMatt> not first run ever
 * MartijnVdS did 10km yesterday
<SuperMatt> but first in a long time
<MartijnVdS> but I've been doing it for 3 years now :)
<SuperMatt> when I say long, I mean loooooooooooooong
<SuperMatt> If I run around the houses, it'd be nice and flat, but houses aren't as pretty as parks
<SuperMatt> maybe I can find another, flatter park
<MartijnVdS> I live next to a small artificial lake, it's almost exactly 4km around
<knightwise> ooooh painfull
<MartijnVdS> add the golf course and football fields, and it's a round 10km (the golf course == hilly ex garbage dump :)
<knightwise> I did about 15 km's walking yesterday
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: you live in Holland.. EVERYTING is flat !
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: not the golf course!
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: only because its artificial
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it's full of hazardous chemicals too (http://coupepolder.nl/) :)
<knightwise> at least its better to have a toxic golf course then to have a toxic residential area #lekkerkerk
<knightwise> "Toxic-Golf" ... does have a nice ring to it
<knightwise> less boring then "regular" golf
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: yeah, glow-in-the-dark golf balls.. we've all heard the jokes ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: a bit like disco bowling 8-)
<SuperMatt> huh, I've found something I like about bing
<SuperMatt> the maps have an ordinance survey overlay, so I can see elevation
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh oh
<knightwise> SuperMatt: that you can turn it off ?
 * knightwise is on fire today 
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: google has a "Terrain" option that does that, I think?
<SuperMatt> I couldn't figure out how to view that
<SuperMatt> one tick
<SuperMatt> oh wait, you can't turn it on in satelite mode
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: it works in satellite mode in the Google Earth app :)
<SuperMatt> hmmm, google maps doesn't give me as much detail as the bing ordiance survey does
<knightwise> Nah : still can"t see my house properly
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: is it too small to be resolved? ;)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: yes
<SuperMatt> so godaddy have supermatt.com "up for acution." I would like to buy that, except godaddy expect me to pay for an "auction account" before I can place any kind of bid
<knightwise> and the shitty thing about having an underground batcave is that its hard to find on streetview too
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: also, it's godaddy.. :(
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> I wonder if they'll just give up the domain when the action ends
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: they have street view bicycles now
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: supermatt.pro? ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: supermatt.eu? ;)
<SuperMatt> I already got supermatt.net
<SuperMatt> would be nice to have the .com
<knightwise> super.mat
<knightwise> we need to create a country first
<MartijnVdS> superm.at ?
<MartijnVdS> that country already exists..
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: Do what you dutch do best : Throw some sand in the sea, turn it into an island and call it matadonia or smething
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: we have the "Zandmotor"
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zandmotor
<JamesTait> Good morning all, and happy International Dance Day! *jazz hands*
<MartijnVdS> *\\o o//* *\o/*
<JamesTait> Ooh, pom-poms!
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<mungbean> how do i disable the facebook birthday announements appearing on my phone as an alert?
<mungbean> quite in here.
<brobostigon> quiet*
<mungbean> anyone want a job?
<MooDoo> mungbean: tea boy?
<mungbean> mixture of linux and windows infrastructure software
<mungbean> thought there might be some in here out of work or soon to be
<MooDoo> mungbean: curiosity button pressed, got a url for the job spec?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: hullo matey
<mungbean> http://tinyurl.com/cw49ynu
<mungbean> MooDoo: ^
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka how am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin ta
<MooDoo> mungbean: looks good, want me to share it out for ya?
<mungbean> sure
<mungbean> i rec it as a step up
<mungbean> rather than sideways step
<MooDoo> yeah looks good
 * TheOpenSourcerer just upgraded from 12.10 to 13.04 at the office. Took about 20mins in total with one reboot. You can't do that with Windows ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> One annoying feature - missing tree view in nautilus. Who at gnome thought that was a good idea should be shot.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Weird that multiple desktops were turned off by default.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: possibly the same person who thought getting rid of the time last modified was a good idea too :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Didn't like the fact that UbuntuOne got re-installed even though my system 12.10 was purged of it.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: that's cause it is install by Ubuntu Desktop which is what an upgrade does
<TheOpenSourcerer> fir enough but it *should* recognise that I had removed it and didn't want it back again.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/fir/fair
<Nafallo> apt-config dump | grep Rec <-- handy ;-)
<Myrtti> multidesktop was my favourite feature down at Debian potato and Fedora 12. It's a shame it can be confusing to noobs.
<Nafallo> not sure if the release-upgrader cares, but still...
<Myrtti> s/12/2/
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: basically what it does is disable 3rd party repos, change quantal to raring in the repos that are left and then run apt-get install x-desktop package and update any others that you have installed, it's not actually smart enough to figure out if you removed any default apps.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: at least that was my understanding of it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a minor thing. The fact I went fromk 12.10 to 13.04 in about 20 mins was rather amazing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have fast broadband and I have an ssd :-D
<MooDoo> hmmmm ssd
<brobostigon> is there an android messenger client, that does that bonjour messaging thing, empathy does? i am hitting a dead end.
<Myrtti> awwwwww
<Myrtti> I was going to link to a funny blog post about a game development simulation game, but they're updating their website now.
<Myrtti> ooh, never heard of http://coralcdn.org/ before
<mgdm> It's quite neat, been around for a while
<Myrtti> there we go, now I can link the page http://www.greenheartgames.com.nyud.net/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/
<Myrtti> they've got Linux version of the game too it seems
<redtape> OT | Looks like I'm heading to the UK next week .. Lanc.s to be specific .. Grand-Mama past away last night .. 92 gawd bless her .. Attended a prayer meeting this morning for the first time in years.. feel ok .. Anyway, I'm in the UK near Manchester next week if anyone wants a coffee .. be nice to change the topic of the crossing for an hour or two .. May even look up the local LUG .. dunno yet.
<popey> morning
<redtape> Hi popey, hows the US going ?
<popey> good so far
<redtape> I hope the sun comes out for you .. :D
<popey> it was lovely and sunny yesterday, forecast is sun all week
<popey> not that I will see it
<popey> Myrtti: that was an interesting and depressing read
<popey> rather cunning
<shrik> a PSA: ditch the GNOME3 ppa before upgrading to 13.04. It messes things up something fierece.
<shrik> fierce*
<Darael-webchat> I have an... interesting one here.
<Darael-webchat> Got a new laptop.  It supports UEFI.  It will happily boot by UEFI from removable media, but refuses to recognise anything installed on the hard drive.
<Darael-webchat> (still loads fine if I install things in BIOS mode)
<directhex> Darael-webchat, is that with secure boot disabled?
<Darael-webchat> Yup.  First thing I checked.
<directhex> are you booted from removable media right now?
<Darael-webchat> Nope; using the W7 from the hard drive it came with in BIOS mode.
<directhex> 32 or 64-bit windows?
<Darael-webchat> 64-bit.
<Darael-webchat> But it's definitely installed in BIOS mode; the two partitions on this HDD are NTFS, so neither can possibly be an EFI boot partition.
<directhex> you're remarkably well informed on this topic. this is very refreshing, i must say
<directhex> so you can't boot windows, if you install it in uefi mode?
<Darael-webchat> I can't even install it in uefi mode; the CD freezes at the Windows logo in uefi mode.
<Darael-webchat> Searched around a bit, and it seems that's commonly solved by changing the SATA mode to IDE, but all that does is actually get me to the logo before the freeze, instead of during the four-balls animation.
<Darael-webchat> Ubuntu CD boots and installs in uefi mode fine, though.
<Darael-webchat> Just won't then recognise it as a bootable HDD.
<davmor2> QUESTION: Is there a way to find out when a package got replaced? for example when libudev0 got replaced by libudev1
<Darael-webchat> davmor2: Short of grepping /var/log/apt/history.log (or something very much like that)?
<Darael-webchat> The only hint I have is that enabling uefi boot is only available after one chooses "Windows 8" instead of "Others" in an option called "Operating System" in the BIOS.  Which might imply that there's some kind of irritating lock-in thing that'll only allow W8 in uefi mode.
<directhex> davmor2, locally or on the server?
<directhex> Darael-webchat, windows 7 in uefi mode requires BIOS-based access to the video card firmware. i couldn't install windows 7 as UEFI on this thinkpad unless i had "CSM" enabled in the BIOS. can you check for a similar setting? otherwise it just froze on the windows logo.
<davmor2> directhex: more on the whole,  I thought packages.ubuntu.com might hold some insight but no it's not that useful apparently :)
<directhex> urgh, "in the bios"
 * directhex kills self
<Darael-webchat> The thing is, what else do we call it?
<Darael-webchat> We've got so used to calling the firmware configurator "the BIOS"...
<davmor2> directhex: I'm going to try Darael-webchat example but I'm not sure if I've done a fresh install for testing something else or not in the meantime :)
<directhex> Darael-webchat, "firmware setup" is the technical name
<Darael-webchat> directhex: I don't seem to have a "CSM" setting.  I saw that when I was looking around, and even that NVidia cards specifically could be a problem, but I don't have the option to disable it.
<Darael-webchat> directhex: True.  Time to retrain our brains...
<Darael-webchat> Or enable it, rather.
<Darael-webchat> Well, I can double-check.  Back momentarily.
<directhex> davmor2, udev is an interesting case. libudev0 is from "udev" and libudev1 is from "systemd", so the change happened when modern systemd was uploaded, post-udev-merge
<davmor2> directhex: yeah
<Darael> directhex: Same Darael, now from an Ubuntu live session.  Simply because I like it more.
<Darael> No such setting.
<directhex> hmph
<directhex> it might not be there. which would be user hostile, but not out of spec
<Darael> ...irssi, now was not a good time to segfault.
<Darael> Anyway, as I was saying, there's no option to disable the discrete card, either.  Which makes it all the more annoying that I couldn't get a machine without Optimus.
<Darael> I *swear* irssi used to be more stable than this.
<MartijnVdS> irssi is unstable?!
<MartijnVdS> lies!
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Mine is.  Segfaults all over the place.  It's *probably* irssi-plugin-xmpp's fault.
<MartijnVdS> plugins make it less stable, yes
<Darael> Should really move to bitlbee at some point.
<directhex> <directhex> hmph
<directhex> <directhex> it might not be there. which would be user hostile, but not out of spec
<Darael> I got the first of those.
<Darael> And yeah, that was my conclusion.
<directhex> can you run "efibootmgr" on your live session?
<Myrtti> Darael: that's my experience with irssi - it's stable as a rock until you start messing with it.
<directhex> (assuming your live session is a uefi live session)
<Darael> directhex: After apt-get installing it, it exits immediately.
<Darael> Hmm.
<directhex> as root
<Darael> A live session won't mind if I hotplug drives.
<Darael> I should probably do that with the drive that has an EFI boot partition on it.
<Darael> Yup, that runs happily enough.
<directhex> w
<directhex> pastebin the output
<Darael> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616185/
<SuperMatt> what's the name of the site that has lots of ubuntu related assets on it?
<popey> http://design.ubuntu.com/ ?
<SuperMatt> I'm certain the one I'm thinking of isn't official
<directhex> Darael, is that output what you expect? i.e. just one entry for windows, no entry for ubuntu?
<SuperMatt> it has things like impress templates, etc
<popey> http://spreadubuntu.org/ ?
<SuperMatt> that's it!
<Darael> directhex: No!  This drive shouldn't have anything Windows-related on it.  'scuse me.  I did, after all, boot with a different drive in it.  Going to see if I've confused it.
<directhex> Darael, efibootmgr is retrieving values from your efi variable store, not your efi boot partition
<directhex> Darael, use the -v flag
<directhex> Darael, it should show you what it thinks is the actual corresponding efi application in a boot partition
<directhex> e.g.
<directhex> Boot001A* Windows Boot Manager	HD(1,800,32000,a5537a27-f981-47a4-b01c-bcf40f81cfef)File(\EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi)WINDOWS.........x...B.C.D.O.B.J.E.C.T.=.{.9.d.e.a.8.6.2.c.-.5.c.d.d.-.4.e.7.0.-.a.c.c.1.-.f.3.2.b.3.4.4.d.4.7.9.5.}...a................
<Darael> Having rebooted, it's looking *really* confused.  It's got an entry for the Windows Boot Manager (though the only Windows-related present is the DVD) and *two* entries each for the live thumb drive and the DVD drive.
<Darael> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616205/ (without -v) and http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616208/ (with -v)
<Darael> I can't make head nor tail of the latter.
<directhex> that windows entry looks incomplete, since it isn't referring to a specific bootmgfw.efi
<MartijnVdS> ~
<MartijnVdS> oops
<Darael> Frankly there shouldn't be one at all:  This box has never *had* a uefi Windows install.
<directhex> yeah, it's weird
<directhex> you can delete the entry with -B Boot0000
<directhex> i think
<Darael> -Bb 0000, actually, but yes.
<Darael> Which is interesting, because it won't accept setting the boot order, or setting BootNext.
<Darael> Fails without error message.
<MartijnVdS> yay firmware!
<Darael> At least adding and deleting entries worked.
<Darael> Well, I haven't tried adding.
<directhex> sounds like a garbage firmware implementation tbh :/
<Darael> But if deleting works one would *hope* adding would, too.
<Darael> Yeah, that's the conclusion I've been reaching.
<directhex> ubuntu installer should have added...
<Darael> Well, EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi is at least *present* on the EFI boot partition.
<directhex> so... let's see if we can work out the format for adding
<directhex> Boot0018* ubuntu	HD(1,800,32000,a5537a27-f981-47a4-b01c-bcf40f81cfef)File(\EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi)
<directhex> oh, efibootmgr automates it
<directhex> it should just do it, if /boot/efi is mounted, and you call "efibootmgr -c"
<Darael> Nope.  Fails silently.
<directhex> oh. good.
<directhex> no wonder the ubuntu installer failed.
<directhex> dumb question: is there an updated FW on the laptop manufacturer's site?
<Darael> Nope.
<Darael> Had a look, but no luck.
<Darael> Well, yes and no.
<Darael> There are two things in the firmware package.  One is the BIOS, which is the same as the version installed.
<Darael> One is some other thing, listed in the setup as "KBC/EC Firmware", which is supplied at version 1.02.04 but installed at 1.02.03.
<Darael> But I don't trust that, because AFAICT it's just what's on some Russian website, whereas Clevo provide a whole bunch of downloads, all of which are drivers for W7 or W8.
<Darael> *Must* find a way to stop getting Clevo rebrands.
<mungbean> galaxy tab 3 announced
<Darael> Right.  So, with no firmware updates I trust, I guess it's time to give up and just install everything in BIOS mode.
<Darael> Pity.
<Darael> Never mind.
<directhex> Darael, well done for giving it a proper go without screaming conspiracy
<directhex> srsly though, shipping a broken uefi is more expensive than shipping a working one, since it means you looked at intel's mit-licensed implementation which works fine and decided "nope, let's not use that, let's do it ourselves instead. i'm sure we're smarter than intel's army of engineers and OSS contributors"
<Darael> Yup.  Somewhat irritating.
<directhex> looks like american megatrends' uefi implementation, "aptio", is based on tianocore
<directhex> also phoenix securecore
<directhex> so who is writing bad firmware??!
<ali1234> tianocore is itself broken
<ali1234> so basically everyone
<ali1234> sara_: please try this kernel http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/btpatch/
<Darael> The last laptop I had also had an AM firmware, as I recall.  And the UEFI *worked*, except for the minor detail that the screen backlight wouldn't come on in UEFI mode.
<directhex> ali1234, but it's common broken. meaning tianocore workarounds should be global workarounds
<directhex> Darael, seems like vendor-specific fuckuppery there
<directhex> er, ill chosen words, maybe
<Darael> directhex: Yeah, that was my guess.  Still an interesting one.
<directhex> getting this thinkpad going with uefi was easy(*)
<sara_> ali1234, how to do that safely?
<ali1234> download the three files and then install them with dpkg -i or by just double clicking
<ali1234> linux-headers then linux-image then linux-image-extras
<ali1234> then reboot
<ali1234> after reboot run dmesg | less
<ali1234> the third line should contain "root@al-raring32" if you are running this kernel
<ali1234> then run hciconfig -a
<sara_> ali1234,  step by step please
<sara_> no assumptions (except that i dont know what dpkg  is
<ali1234> just download the files
<ali1234> then double click on each one
<ali1234> and follow the instructions
<sara_> :) oh crap they are .deb     (i just woke up, i am a bit slow, i understand how to use .deb
<celesteh> hi, i'm trying to write a script that determines if a particular audio device is  attached to my computer.  I can find that via aplay -l |grep and store that in variable, but I'm doing something wrong with the if statement...
<directhex> ali1234, good show, btw. compiling a kernel for someone is a big jump in helping someone outness
<sara_> ali1234, is it nessucary to boot into a different kernal as it's saying i need to remove 3 packages  and to reinstall the packages
<sara_> directhex, if i had a job i'd send ali1234  flowers
<sara_> or chocolate
<sara_> or something
<sara_> thats how greatful i am
<sara_> ali1234, http://dug.im/19bb6
<sara_> is this normal?
<ali1234> sara_: hmm. no
<ali1234> use dpkg instead
<ali1234> sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-3.8.0-19-generic_3.8.0-19.29_i386.deb
<ali1234> and the same for the others
<sara_> or drag and drop the packages onto a terminal :D
<ali1234> yes, i suppose that would work
<ali1234> it should say something about "unpacking replacement"
<sara_> discovered that by accident. Saved my litterally years of my life
<sara_> yes
<sara_> i will paste the output then reboot
<sara_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616598/ i accidentally pressed ctrl +c but i think it corrected it
<ali1234> ah you attempted to install them in the wrong order
<ali1234> yeah that should be ok... hopefully
<sara_> if not?
<ali1234> have a livecd handy
<sara_> ok
<sara_> vi ses
<sara> ali1234,  "no adaptor found" when i try to enable it
<ali1234> pastebin dmesg and hciconfig -a
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616639/
<sara> both posted in the same output
<ali1234> ok, hang on, building another kernel
<sara> i so owe you chocolate
<sara> :P
<mungbean> oooh precise-proposed now has the gpu hang fix
<Laney> test it and report back on the bug!
<mungbean> its my work pc.. gonna do 1st thiung :)
<ali1234> what's the name of the bot to search freenode channels?
<ali1234> answer: alis
<ali1234> sara: new kernel: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/btpatch/2/
<ali1234> this still won't work but it will put lots of debugging into dmesg
<sara> ok
<sara> ali1234, like this  sudo apt-get install '/home/sara/Downloads/linux-image-extra-3.8.0-19-generic_3.8.0-19.29_i386.deb' '/home/sara/Downloads/linux-image-3.8.0-19-generic_3.8.0-19.29_i386.deb' '/home/sara/Downloads/linux-headers-3.8.0-19-generic_3.8.0-19.29_i386.deb'
<sara> right?
<sara> or different order?
<ali1234> you should install linux-image-extra last
<dwatkins> all this awesomeness reminds me I've never actually compiled a Linux kernel - is there a good tutorial on how to do it? Last time I tried, I appeared to be missing some essential config files, iirc...
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617107/ same nomatter where i put it @ ali1234
<ali1234> it has to be in the current directory
<ali1234> dwatkins: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<ali1234> it's really out of date and doesn't work properly though
<dwatkins> hmm, ok thanks - will have a look anyway
<sara> no use, same issue
<ali1234> also it takes about 2 hours
<ali1234> whether it works or not
<ali1234> sara: wait you're supposed to use dpkg
<shauno> seriously?  it used to take me 10 minutes or so
<ali1234> shauno: full ubuntu kernel builds every module
<shauno> ah.  that used to be half the point of building it
<dwatkins> that it was quick, shauno?
<shauno> to be able to remove everything you haven't heard of
<dwatkins> ah right
<dwatkins> I was just thinking it might be useful as a learning experience, or if I have hardware which doesn't work, but can be patched etc.
<shauno> it's been quite a while since I've messed with this, but it used to be that if you wrote a kernel straight to a floppy, it'd end up bootable.  not very portable, since things like root= can't be changed without a bootloader (it defaults to the current root when it was built)
<shauno> but handy in a crunch
<dwatkins> ahhh, floppy disks, I remember the days...
<dwatkins> iirc the first slackware distro I used needed two floppies
<shauno> the first one I used needed a tonne (3.3), but you only really needed the 7 or 8 'A' disks
<shauno> but yeah.  nostalgia aside, there used to be fairly reasonable reasons for taking out anything you didn't need.  whether for disk or ram constraints.  now hardware's practically free, convenience rules
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617130/ AlanBell
<sara> ali1234,
<dwatkins> yeah, and systems are more likely to have 32GB of RAM than 32MB of it, well almost.
<shauno> indeed.  I'm trying to scrape together 64GB for my current build.  my first linux box had 3MB.  priorities have changed :)
<mungbean> hoarders programme inspires me to tidy up
<mungbean> channel 4
<shauno> but I'll keep quiet about that, else I'll just end up griping about DDR2 prices when others are trying to be useful :/
<dwatkins> I just upgraded my main laptop to 8GB, it's nearly 3 years old and going strong, but I'll probably have to bite the bullet and get an i7 someday soon
<mungbean> ali1234: how to use alis?
<ali1234>  /msg alis help
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617141/ ali1234
<ali1234> well that's interesting
<ali1234> ok i need to build another kernel it looks like
<sara> dmesg | less
<sara> no?
<ali1234> yeah. it didn't do anything
 * sara goes to make food
<brobostigon> theres dedication for you.
<dwatkins> yeah, much respect to ali1234 for continuing to compile kernels
<sara> dwatkins, they are akin with wonderwoman or batman :)
<sara> brobostigon, i would have given up at kernal
<brobostigon> sara: is it a kernel patch, that allows for your individual hardware, that isnt in standard kernel?
<sara> its a widely used bt card
<sara> k53u asus
<brobostigon> ok,
 * dwatkins thought ali1234 was compiling the entire kernel, not just providing patches
<dwatkins> then again, it's presumably a case of applying patches -yo- the kernel
<dwatkins> *to
<brobostigon> thats what i thought,
<dwatkins> ah ok sorry
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i maybe wrong though.
 * popey wonders why he got an SMS telling me Philip Taylor has photos to show you on Path!
<popey> with a url I'm not about to click on
<bigcalm> Who and what?
<popey> well, "Philip Taylor" might be brobostigon or it might be a random name
<popey> but this sms came from a number I have never seen, and gives me a path.com/i/xxxxxx url
<popey> so I assume brobostigon signed up to it and somehow had my mobile number
<brobostigon> popey: sorry, a new piece of software dud sonething unexpected, sorry.
<brobostigon> foursquare?
<popey> ok, so i know where it came from now, thanks brobostigon
<brobostigon> popey: my apologies, several people have told me it did this in the last hour, so i have nuked my account with path to avoid more problems.
<popey> heh
<popey> np
<brobostigon> best thing to do.
<bigcalm> I've been catching up on the new shorter uupc eps. Was listening to a recentish one where popey says "14th, 15th & 16th". At the moment of saying "16th", my system froze and I had popey saying "eenth" over and over and over again
<brobostigon> it isnt worth it, if it hassles people like that.
<bigcalm> popey: as much as I love your voice, that was a little disturbing after a while
<shauno> bigcalm: sounds like that deserves a refund :)
<bigcalm> shauno: you get what you pay for ;)
<shauno> I have a fun problem with my laptop where it just hangs hard.  doesn't seem to matter what OS it's running at the time.  stops dead, parks disks, and then beeps very very loudly.  louder than I had any idea these speakers were capable of
<shauno> I think I'd rather have popey stuttering
<bigcalm> Sleep mode
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-30
<czajkowski> I'd be well pissed if someone decided to bring a kid even if I said no kids
<mungbean> they said because of space on the invite.
<diplo> yeah I didn't want them at mine, I love kids ( have 2 ) but not at my wedding day :D
<czajkowski> *shrugs*
<mungbean> obviously i would ask first maybe infomrally via another channel
<czajkowski> if others do the same thing, then eventually there will be no space :)
<mungbean> babes in arms is not the same as kids
<czajkowski> mungbean: you clearly haev your mind made up :)
<Myrtti> go and ask them.
<Myrtti> I'm sure you'll get some kind of an answer.
<mungbean> i will find out, but not ask directly in case they feel obliged to say yes
<Myrtti> this discussion makes my mind set more and more for elopement
<Myrtti> less hassle++
<czajkowski> Myrtti: true, and people tend to not respect peoples wishes
<czajkowski> which is shite tbh
<Myrtti> I wouldn't know about that, I've never organised anything where I've had other wishes than "please come"
<Myrtti> and I've tried not to organise anything too.
<Myrtti> I escaped my 30th birthday to a cottage in Cornwall.
<czajkowski> hehe I went to canada for mine
<czajkowski> and managed to upset my entire family by doing so
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
<bigcalm> Vietnam?
<Myrtti> I should continue my jumper.
<diplo> I'm going to go away for my birthday for the same reason
<Myrtti> my main reason was to give my family and relatives an excuse to not get me any presents and for me to escape the harsh reality that I wouldn't get anything useful or reciprocal to what I've given them anyway
<BigRedS> I've never understood the idea of a useful present
<BigRedS> I always buy people useless tat
<mungbean> amazon wish list seems to work well for my family
<TheOpenSourcerer> We had a "no kids" wedding. Totally Black Tie event. Would have been outraged if anyone had brought a kid along. In fact I would have kicked them out.
<diplo> Myrtti: I'd rather I didn't get anything, but people never listen :)
<BigRedS> "Kits will be shot on sight"
<BigRedS> er, kids
<diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: My uncle and auntie still brought their kids, even though I had explicitly called her and told her why :/
<mungbean> i think i go to different kind of weddings
<diplo> heh, most of the weddings i go to allow kids mungbean
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I would have evicted them.
<diplo> Mine was on a very tight budget ( i paid ) and I also didn't want kids there :)
<mungbean> most of my family are erally close and would love to have kids but there's just not enough room
<diplo> Should have done yeah, my ex was quite annoyed
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is the bride and groom's day. If they do not want kids then they DO NOT WANT KIDS. What is so hard to understand?
<mungbean> because it's not as clear cut
<diplo> If i was in your position, I'd either have one of us go or find a sitter and pop back if possible
<TheOpenSourcerer> Either you accept kids or you don't.
<diplo> We did that a few times over the years
<Myrtti> BigRedS: either a consumable (sauces, jams, cookies, yarn, tea, book, giftcard works) or a piece of kit or tool or something else useful that they've heard me talk about. I buy my nieces and nephews mobile phone charging cable, hair straightener iron, shaving kit, laptop batteries and harddrives, mobile phone covers etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hold a separate event for families and have a bouncy castle ;-)
<mungbean> i'm obviously gonna ask, but there will be a couple of close friends who will have v young babies that are a bit young to stay with anyone else, and would be carried etc, hence without baby then cannot come
<TheOpenSourcerer> In my boat that means they don't come then.
<diplo> heh, I never know what to buy Myrtti. I am so awful at buying anything
<mungbean> in which case, sometimes the couple say, of course bring the sprog, it's cos we don't have room for 1-15yr olds
<mungbean> and other people say nope
<mungbean> depends on the couple though
<mungbean> its rude to not ask of course
<Myrtti> atleast this Christmas I didn't get any cosmetics after telling people that I still have about 40kilos of Bodyshop stuff and I won't use them in my lifetime
<mungbean> i used to imagine that after my nan died we'd find a room stacked to the ceriling with oil of ulay
<Myrtti> "do not buy me moisturiser or bath bubbles, I won't be able to go through it"
<DJones> We said no kids at our wedding, the only exception turned out to be an Aunty who was so near full term that she started with labour pain during the evening reception, didn't end up having the baby until 2 days later though
<diplo> hah DJones, that would have been fun
<diplo> An event to remember for everyone
<DJones> IT would have made a mess of the dance floor
<diplo> :)
<mungbean> just anyone have any just cause ...ARTTTTTGFHGHGHGHHH
<mungbean> iIIITITISSS COMING
<Myrtti> WINTER IS COMING
<Myrtti> PREPARE YOURSELVES!
<DJones> mungbean: Is that with DJ playing pop-goes-the-weazel tune
<diplo> Mates just sent me a image from his 35 holiday, says it's live the med on the devon coast, not sure if i like him anymore
<diplo> :(
<diplo> 35 quid*
<mungbean> scummer
<MooDoo> diplo: disown him
<mungbean> i went to devon in june
<mungbean> rain EVERY DAY
<Myrtti> I should get on with planning the wedding tho
<Myrtti> been nearly a year since I got my ring
<mungbean> weddings are overrated
<diplo> I need to plan my divorce :(
<diplo> Put it off for 2 1/2 years already
<MooDoo> diplo: :(
<BigRedS> Myrtti: yeah, I generally get odd bits of outdoorsy/motorbikey/computery tat and trivia. I've been carrying around a bottle opener that I got that way for about 10 years now...
<diplo> it costs sooooooo much!!!
<mungbean> solicitor fees?
<MooDoo> diplo: got kids?
<mungbean> i keep watching hoarders next door and being inspired to tidy
<diplo> Just everything, can get married for like 50 quid, going to cost me 7-800 to get divorced. yeah MooDoo
<MooDoo> diplo: ah crap
<diplo> She left me so I feel she should pay for it :/
<czajkowski> diplo: why didnt you just ask them to leave
<diplo> Because they had driven 200 miles, and didn't want to cause a family row, they kept them out of the way most of the time.
<mungbean> the wedding is in sussex, one of you can go as my SO then
<czajkowski> thats still shite
<MooDoo> +1
<awilkins> The wedding industry is like a country of ghouls that prey on the memories of Disney dreams that grown women carry from their childhood.
<diplo> Yep, I even phoned them previously so my dad didn't have to do it and cause him any agro
<czajkowski> and people who do it as they know the people who requested not to bring kids are ding it to suit themselves
<mungbean> awilkins: creepy but lol
<diplo> Well I got invited to one of the cousins wedding but didn't go in spite last year :D
<awilkins> Seriously, paying Â£12,000 so 200 of my wife's relatives who I don't know (or care to know) can sit down to a chicken dinner in their Sunday best is not my idea of a useful spend
<diplo> Should have taken my 2 boys up there though really, would have shown them!
<diplo> :P
<mungbean> weddings shouldn't be so massive, since if couples live together they are practically married already, and if they didn't then the marriage is the occasion, not the wedding
<czajkowski> such a manly way of thinking lads :)
<diplo> yeah my wedding itself was 40 people, evening about 120
<mungbean> its always interesting looking at guest list of your wedding to think, why did i invite them?
<diplo> Was great, everyone got totally drunk and did stupid dancing and stuff, most relaxed wedding i'd been to in years if i don't say so myself
 * bigcalm intends to have a jolly good wedding in October. And a happy ever after. No Disney required :)
<diplo> mungbean: I didn't invite any of the should I/ shouldn't I people, made that decision early on
<czajkowski> I think every wedding is unique and cant really be compared tbh
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I found some cufflinks!
<awilkins> czajkowski, Wouldn't mind unique - would much prefer an effort to make unique memories every year
<mungbean> i was so nervous for wedding i didn't enjoy it
<diplo> I hate weddings themselves, would love to go to one of these ones where they dance and stuff, now that would make it less formal
<bigcalm> Came by fedex this morning http://www.etsy.com/listing/61040400/sterling-silver-pacman-cufflinks
<czajkowski> if ne group[ asks 200 people and the other 20 it's still their choice and their prerogative
<davmor2> Morning all from 13.04 at last, shuggin fashin uefi
 * mungbean has spitfire ones
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nice
<diplo> Never owned any cufflinks
 * TheOpenSourcerer thought ours was brilliant.
<czajkowski> I do like black tie events though
<czajkowski> went to a lot of them in college any excuse to get into a ball gown
<awilkins> But weddings are largely cookie cutter assembly line jobs in my XP - they have a whole industry dedicated to stamping them out and extracting the money from flowers, photos, party favours, chocolates to sit on the tables, cake, table decorations, balloons, the anchors you tie the balloons to ... etc etc etc etc etc
<TheOpenSourcerer> We got married here and had the reception etc.
<diplo> Never been to one myself
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.clandonpark.co.uk/
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: nice
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I also have a set of minecraft ones coming from the US http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/105932237/minecraft-creeper-cuff-links-laser-cut
<czajkowski> awilkins: ours tend to be different and start off in church, and if not there, a pub before hand, then church, then post pup and then off to hotel foods drinks dancing and most definately ear hours singining
<TheOpenSourcerer> Went to one in Sligo that was a real craick czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> We all had to "do a trun" at the reception - much fun.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/trun/turn
<czajkowski> aye mates one started at 2pm that was the drnks in the pub oposite the church and finished up at 6am and back up for 10am fry up followed by BBQ
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: great night last friday! cant wait for next year.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh jeez - will you be coming again then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
 * diplo wants to do a release party at some point, always falls when I have the kids :/
<bigcalm> diplo: have a release party with them
<DJones> Last wedding I was at was South AFrican themed, normal church wedding first, then wedding breakfast with south african bbq'd food, evening had south african drummers & dancers
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: and we have the RAT to look forward to
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have a release party with a bouncy castle and/or water pistols ;-)
<czajkowski> but wont be as yummy ciders :(
<diplo> My youngest would be bored, my eldest already uses my ubuntu machine, just gets on and uses it, never asked why it's different from his windows laptop :)
<SuperMatt> mmm... ciders
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Feck - you coming on that too?
<diplo> Kids are great
<mungbean> my 3yr old was sitting in bed this morning and had a piece of paper and crayon
<mungbean> then he wrote his name
<diplo> DJones: That sounds a great wedding, all the ones I attend bore me to death
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: yup ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh lovely...
<diplo> mungbean: first time ?
<mungbean> completely independently . i was amazed
<mungbean> yes
<MooDoo> mungbean my 18 month old had paper and a crayon then though it would be more fun to write on the carpet
<mungbean> it actually loked like proper letters
<diplo> Cool, it's great the first time, they start writing everywhere else soon
<diplo> Got my first name writing in a box in the loft, good memories
<mungbean> yeah we used to put crayons back in a special tin
<DJones> diplo: It was good, Cousin was born in SA & lived there for about 14 years before moving back to the UK,
<mungbean> he has a mario booklet with paper in
<mungbean> mario ,shaun the sheep and ninja warrior are faves atm
<diplo> IF and that's a big if I ever get married again, I defo want to do something slightly different
<DJones> Didn't somebody get married while doing a bungee jump (I seem to remember seeing pictures in the newspapers), That would be different :)
<diplo> Sounds great, or a skydive!!
<DJones> Yep, I thought I'd seen it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084734/Pictured-The-couple-wedding-kiss-upside-bungee-line.html
<diplo> hah great!
<DJones> Wasn't quite what I thought though, I had visions of bride & groom, vicar & witnesses bouncing up & down at the bottom of the bungee rope reciting the wedding vows
<diplo> heh, I thought that as well. But 7k! ooer
<bigcalm> Anybody know how I use openjdk-6 on 13.04?
<directhex> 6?
<bigcalm> 6
<directhex> you don't
<davmor2> bigcalm: see if there is a 6 first
<directhex> well, you could download sun java from oracle
<bigcalm> usc says that 6 is installed
<bigcalm> (as well as 7)
<directhex> left over from quantal
<directhex> sudo update-alternatives --config java
<bigcalm> I did a fresh install
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Yep, listed 6. Thanks
<SuperMatt> java /o\
<bigcalm> I know jack about java. Makes getting this app to run rather tricky
 * bigcalm pokes the developer some more
<SuperMatt> java's OK for my first programming language
<brobostigon> how do i remove a package, properly, that i installed via a debian package,?
<MooDoo> sudo apt-get --purge remove xxxxx won't that work for you?
<MooDoo> or is it delete, can never remember
<brobostigon> i am trying to work it out, aswell.
<SuperMatt> you can just use apt-get purge
<brobostigon> apt-get purge packagename ?
<SuperMatt> yup
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<SuperMatt> that'll remove all config files too
<brobostigon> yes, it did, :)
<SuperMatt> good
<brobostigon> just migrating something, from one vps to another, that has more free resources.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: oooo fun :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :) yes, openvpn-as
<MooDoo> can't say I've used that....
<brobostigon> it is assentially a preconfigured, easy to install package, that does most of the openvpn configuration for you.
<MooDoo> yeah just read about it online.
<brobostigon> the licence is limited to two people, doesnt bother me, as i will be the only person using it,
<brobostigon> oh dear, that would have made things easier, they have a debian repo for their packages,
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<MooDoo> lol
<brobostigon> would make removing also easier,
<brobostigon> need to work out, ipv6 on it next.
<SuperMatt> I'm not looking forward to the day I have to learn about ipv6 D:
<brobostigon> i have had ipv6 here at home, using radvd and a tunnel, on my wrt54gl, for atleast the last year.
<mgdm> I need to put a different firmware onto my GL so I can do IPv6
<brobostigon> if i remeber, it has a version of openwrt.
<mgdm> apparently the default DD-WRT firmware includes a gadget to make old Xboxes be able to play games across the internet, instead of IPv6
<directhex> i'm waiting for BT to catch up with the glorious ipv6 future
<directhex> i cba with tunneling
<mgdm> so I need the firmware for weird people who never owned an old Xbox
<directhex> xlink kai?
<directhex> iirc
<mgdm> something like that
<mgdm> It seems an awfully niche feature to be in there by default, instead of something useful
<ali1234> if you want useful use openwrt
<MartijnVdS> \o/ openwrt
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> my router doesn't support it
<MartijnVdS> I decided which router to buy based on OpenWRT workingness
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I will buy my NEXT router based on OpenWRT workingness (current one is getting a bit long in tooth)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: WDR4300 from TP-Link
<MartijnVdS> seems to be the choice of the moment
<awilkins> Not sure what bands my wifi bridge downstairs supports either
<awilkins> :-(
<MartijnVdS> that one is dual-band
<MartijnVdS> though I turned down the txpower of the 2.4GHz bit so devices actually pick 5GHz
<awilkins> The MythTV box is on a bridge
<MartijnVdS> ooh exciting.. new king is going to do his oath now
<awilkins> Because wake on lan doesn't work on wifi
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: wake-on-wifi is a thing
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Didn't work at the time - box is over 10 years old
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, It's an ageing Sempron
<MartijnVdS> ah, I can see why then :)
<awilkins> It's weathered really well, even if it is now running off a cannibalised ATX power supply hanging out the back of the case because it won't fit
<awilkins> Problem is I can't be bothered to upgrade it until we go HD
<awilkins> TVs that fit into my requirements just get cheaper and better every year...
<ali1234> any router that supports dd-wrt supports openwrt, because dd-wrt is just openwrt repackaged for xbox bros
<MartijnVdS> same problem as PCs really ;)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: not really.. some high-end hardware has for-pay dd-wrt
<awilkins> I guess I'll buy when the power requirements of my current big heavy CRT exceed the cost of a new one
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and no openwrt target
<awilkins> But for now I like my viewing angle and true blacks
<awilkins> Maybe when you can get OLED in 28" or better
<awilkins> (can you?)
<awilkins> I mean, I know they've been showing off Stupidly-Expensive-Giant-o-Vision OLEDs
<awilkins> With curved screens just because they can (tm)
<SuperMatt> woo, successful raring upgrade :)
<bigcalm> I want to upgrade, but I also want to know for definite that my workstation will continue to be as usable as it is right now with 12.10. Curse my unique set-up
 * bigcalm consoles himself with a lunch break trip to Maplin
<MartijnVdS> /dev/console?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I've been doing work on a serial console. Correct spelling is optional on IRC ;)
<ocean22> Hi guys.
<ocean22> Not sure if this is an ubuntu problem and I can post this up here. Guide me to the right place if it must be at some other places please.
<ocean22> I am using ubuntu 13.04 with mozilla firefox as the web browser (default version on ubuntu 13.04). I have noticed that firefox stop streaming some media content around 15 to 20s (that is after playing the add) but keep saying âbufferingâ but would never play it again. I had this issue with previous versions of ubuntu but google chrome browser was spared but seems its chromium broswser (installed from repo) is affected on ubuntu
<ocean22>  13.04.
<ocean22> but intrestingly, youtube has never been affected and still not. i ahvent done anything apart from installing ubuntu restricted extras to start playing youtube videos.
<ocean22> please see a link to one of the websites where it happens
<ocean22> http://www.manoramanews.com/cgi-bin/...d=14&BV_ID=@@@
<ocean22> please guide me and any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
<mungbean> i get this problem with 4od website
<mungbean> i don't think its client related but a server issue
<mungbean> series 1 of a programme worked
<mungbean> series 2 didn't
<SuperMatt> if you have an add blocker install, 4od might not work
<mungbean> tried that
<hoover> join #puppet
<hoover> oops, sorry ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<oly> hi, anyone know if there is a way to see what webapps are detected by firefox / chrome ?
<oly> having real issues making them work and i constantly hit road blocks, but if they dont load its difficult to know why
<dwatkins> oly: what do you mean by webapps?
<sara_> ali1234, hi
<popey> Morning!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning popey
<davmor2> popey: pfff might be for you, some of us have been working hard for hours already,  although I'm glad to be here rather than at the sprint to be honest, sprints scrambles your head with info overload :)
<popey> sprints are great
<oly> dwatkins, the unity webapp integration
<oly> figured it out in the end, syntax error in javascript
<oly> i found out the chrome version of the plugin has debug options you can enable
<sara_> popey,  hej
<oly> could not find the same in firefox though
<MooDoo> davmor2: hulllooooooo
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: yes great
<dwatkins> oly: aha
<dwatkins> sara_: any joy with the bluetooth?
<sara_> :)
<brobostigon> wow, they are advertising ST 12 on tv, amazing,
<brobostigon> omfg, google play updated itself auto-magically, wow.
<sara_> :'(  I watched a very sick video today
<sara_> it was part of a tv programme about the RSPCA
<sara_> they raided apuppy farm, and showed what they found, including footage of some puppies in the back garden which had been burried alive.
<sara_> when they dug them up they where still alive :(((
<sara_> somepeople are really sick
<mungbean> the number 6 for dortmund is called sven bender
<mungbean> lol
<sara_> ali1234, hiii
<ali1234> sara_: i should have a new kernel for you in half an hour or so... maybe a bit longer
<sara_> ali1234, :) you are sweet
<mungbean> awesome idea for schools: wish my kid was old enough to have an airfix party http://www.airfix.com/project-airfix/
<mungbean> should probably arrange a "team building exercise" for my office
<ali1234> sara_: new kernel: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/btpatch/3/
<sara_> dpkg -i
<sara_> is that right?
<ali1234> yes
<sara_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5620513/
<sara_> no for a reboot
<sara_> now*
<sara_> ali1234,
<sara> ok so ali1234  thats recognising the broadcom devoce which is awesome, I can add a new device (nexus 4 in this case) BUT i have no access to services, eg "service not available" when i click send file to device
<ali1234> broadcom?
<ali1234> broadcom?!?
<ali1234> whaaaaaaaaaat?
<sara> may have the name of the bluetooth wrong
<sara> sorry wait
<ali1234> it should be atheros?
<sara> this:
<sara> 04:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
<ali1234> no, that's your wifi
<ali1234> pastebin dmesg and hciconfig -a please
<ali1234> sounds like it is working though if you paired a phone
<sara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5620548/
<ali1234> Manufacturer: Atheros Communications, Inc. (69)
<ali1234> last line
<sara> ok
<sara> will try a few services and feed back :) Thank you for your work I really appriciate it
<sara> OBEX Push is not working how can we work towards fixing this?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> this is above the kernel layer
<sara> ok :) I read about what a kernal is (not just popcorn apparently) so i understand on a basic very very basic level what it is
<ali1234> does anyone know what the correct mailing list is for bluetooth patches?
<directhex> bluez list? http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-bluetooth
<sara> directhex, anyway of giving ali1234  a cookie? a nice one made out of chocolate. not a tracking cookie...
<ali1234> i need to remember how to git-send-email too
<Laney> wakka wakka
<ali1234> ok, reported on linux-bluetooth
<ali1234> sara: that kernel is only a temporary workaround and the fix will stop working when there is an update in ubuntu
<ali1234> but hopefully it gets fixed upstream and then it will be fixed permanently in 13.10
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-01
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Sunflower Guerrilla Gardening Day! :-D
<BigRedS> JamesTait: you made that up.
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> http://guerrillagardening.org/community/index.php?board=306.0 er nope :)
<BigRedS> this is all an elaborate ploy
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it is a real thing: http://goo.gl/aQALS
<MooDoo> JamesTait: I know I just pasted the link into the forums explaining it :D
<BigRedS> Ooh. Very elaborate, JamesTait has even registered that domain under someone else's name
<BigRedS> :)
<JamesTait> BigRedS, my aliases are many and varied. ;)
<BigRedS> haha
<redtape> The Lemote has arrived off ebay ! Yay !!  \o/
<mungbean> wow , sen this nook for Â£30? http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5011276.htm
 * BigRedS is skeptical
<BigRedS> My brother had the full-blown nook and that was irritatingly laggy
<DJones> mungbean: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/120744-nook-simple-touch-plummets-in-price-to-29-glowlight-69 <--- Saw that yesterday
<mungbean> BigRedS: laggy for turning pages?
<mungbean> slower than a real book?
 * DJones huggles his kobo touch
<BigRedS> mungbean: just the UI; it wasn't clear whether you'd interacted with what you thought you had
<BigRedS> really irritating to use, always waiting on the device to confirm whether it was about to do what you thought you'd told it
<mungbean> good for skinflint though?
<BigRedS> perhaps. Personally I'd rather save and get something less annoying
<BigRedS> I do get unduly annoyed at poor software, though
<mungbean> anyone used the google chart js tools?
<mungbean> i have a funky idea i don't know if its possible
<mungbean> want to use a slider that shows a different set of data e.g. show feb results, show march results - using a slider control
<mungbean> like this thing allows you to change view dependent on donuts http://code.google.com/apis/ajax/playground/?type=visualization#programmatic_control_changes
<mungbean> i think i have to make a whole chart for all results and then filter feb/mar like paris/USA http://code.google.com/apis/ajax/playground/?type=visualization#dependent_controls
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<selinuxium> BigRedS, mungbean you could look to root it and stick another operating system on for that prince... http://www.rootmynooktablet.com/
<DJones> selinuxium: They're only ebook readers though rather than tablets
<selinuxium> DJones, http://lifehacker.com/5926798/turn-your-rooted-nook-into-the-ultimate-ereader-with-these-10-apps   there are many different sites for rooting the nooks...
<DJones> It surprises me you can do that
<BigRedS> selinuxium: yeah, the one thing I really liked about the nook was that you could git clone it off github :)
<BigRedS> But, aside from a slightly less clunky browser, I'm not sure what more I'd want from my kindle
<BigRedS> Emails are possible, but hard enough that I'd really rather not, which is perfect :)
<DJones> It would make an even better ereader in that you could have the kindle app/kobo app/fb reader all on one device which would sync with the account
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> I've smashed my phone :( with no insurance :(
<andylockran> what's the deal on getting an ubuntu /android phone - any recommendations?
<davmor2> andylockran: the best target is a nexus 4 if you are buying a new one if that is what you mean
<BigRedS> The Sony Desire Z is waterproof. If I get a new phone, it'll be that one I think
<BigRedS> er, it's not a desire. It's an Xperia
<MooDoo> I'm going to see if I can re-align the dilithium crystal which will hopefully reset the space time continuum.
<MooDoo> the best response to a support ticket i've ever seen :D
<SuperMatt> sounds like the kind of thing I need to do to get this bloomin centos box working
<MooDoo> lol
<DJones> MooDoo: Hope they didn't do it with wet fingers, too much risk of a shock
<SuperMatt> why oh why is rpm the *official* package management system?
<BigRedS> for centos?
<BigRedS> 'cause it's rhel without the cool bits
<BigRedS> though rpm's actually pretty sane these days
<SuperMatt> I believe it's the official one for free desktop
<BigRedS> is that still a thing?
<MooDoo> I like centos, use it myself
<BigRedS> it used to be that all software was distributed in rpm and you had to alien it for debian, but now it's largely the other way round, which is nice
 * SuperMatt nods
<SuperMatt> it's not *terrible*, I just... I can't ever figure out how to use it properly
<BigRedS> haha
<SuperMatt> which is insane, because I'm a linux systems administrator
<SuperMatt> centos, redhat and fedora always seem to be fighting me
<BigRedS> yeah, just need to get used to it. I got a bit fluent in it for a while when I was interfering with Centos frequently, and we've now replaced ubuntu with it at work so I'll be getting more familiar....
<MooDoo> oh it's easy :) lol
<MooDoo> man rpm ;)
<SuperMatt> yeah yeah, but it's defaults like having selinux set to enabled and iptables populated with some gumph
<SuperMatt> aint nobody got time for that
<MooDoo> SELINUX = DISABLED, there that's that one sorted and as for iptables, pah you don't need the firewall enableing ;)
<SuperMatt> I know! but those are defaults!
<BigRedS> everything has some daft defaults that need fixing
<MooDoo> yeah i know, i turned them off last night lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah but your somewhat of a sadist I mean you pick on czajkowski so there is something not right with your head
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning by the way
<czajkowski> davmor2: you do it daily to torment me
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning, I don't pick on czajkowski I like her unlike you :p
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok that was uncalled for..../poke czajkowski
<Myrtti> happy May day everyone
<davmor2> czajkowski: I didn't say I was sane I was merely pointing out that MooDoo wasn't either
<davmor2> Myrtti: Yay it's May, and happy may day to you too
<MooDoo> I'm perfectly sane thanks very much, now where that copy of dos 3.1 i want to hack into a webserver ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you fool you need OS warp for that
<MooDoo> davmor2: damn forgot about OS/2 Warp.....
<davmor2> MooDoo: I knew there was a number in there I just couldn't remember what it was, it's been an odd couple of weeks
<MooDoo> davmor2: any one would think you've been busy with distro releases or something!
<andylockran> just bought a nexus 4
<andylockran> now, where to sell a samsung s2 with a smashed scren?
<davmor2> andylockran: ebay
<MooDoo> what about - http://www.mazumamobile.com/ or a site like that?
<shrik> the "fix" to window-switching within the same app alone is the best reason to upgrade to Raring
<mgdm> oh, nice
<mgdm> what does that do?
<BigRedS> I don't think I noticed that change... what should I be making use of now?
<davmor2> mgdm: I'm assuming he means that you can you the scroll wheel on the mouse to flip between windows on  the launcher app.  ie 3 terminals open, hover over the terminal icon on the launcher and scroll will switch between them
<BigRedS> oh
<mgdm> ah
<shrik> oh, also that you can right-click on the app icon in the launcher to get a list of open windows
<shrik> and a chap on reddit just told me that you can use Alt+` to do the same
<shrik> (that's a backtick)
<mgdm> Yeah, that worked before, it's the same as Mac OS X
<AlanBell> that nearly works quite well now
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I've just remembered how much more insane it used to be
<Myrtti> backtick as in ` or '
<AlanBell> key above tab
<TheOpenSourcerer> On a UK kbd that is.
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> key above tab, whatever
<Myrtti> Â§Â½ that's what I get from key above tab ;-)
<Seeker`> key above tab is a backtick
<Seeker`> `
<Myrtti> right, so that advice is useless for most Finnish and Swedish users then
<Myrtti> oh well.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No - What AlanBell said.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's whatever is above the tab.
<TheOpenSourcerer> On a Swedish kbd its that squiglly s thing.
<directhex> the simoleans sign. the currency used in The Sims!
<Myrtti> section sign
<Myrtti> used in law text in Finland
<TheOpenSourcerer> On  french layouts it's a ^ or little circle.
<Seeker`> weeeeeeeeeeird keyboards
<Myrtti> oy, I love mine
<Myrtti> it makes perfect sense for me.
<mgdm> backticks and hence the key to switch app windows are above left alt on Mac keyoards
<Myrtti> I thought the idea of key above the tab was difficult to understand because it took me three tries to understand that
<Myrtti> but that sentence.
<Myrtti> I think I need more tea
<Seeker`> tea sounds good
<MooDoo> english breakfast
<Seeker`> that or vanilla. Or chocolate chip.
<Myrtti> yorkshire with whole milk
<Seeker`> from teabags?
<Myrtti> yup
<MooDoo> yeah yorshire tea is my wifes fave tea
<Seeker`> :( @ teabags
<Seeker`> loose leaf tea++
<MooDoo> :)
<Myrtti> Seeker`: finding Yorkshire for Hard Water as loose leaf has never been successful when we've run out.
<Myrtti> even if it is teabags, it's still better than many others I've tried
<Seeker`> Myrtti: use a water filter?
<Myrtti> Seeker`: I do. That doesn't stop the kettle going furry altogether
<Myrtti> I've never had to descale my water kettle in Finland, here I do it atleast twice a year
<Seeker`> :/
<mgdm> I've never ever had to do that ever
<mgdm> Then I've never lived for any time otuside of Scotland
<Seeker`> Myrtti: tbh, I think that loose leaf tea in hard water areas still tastes better than stuff in teabags
<Myrtti> but yeah, Yorkshire â¥ After I tried Yorkshire it was like an epiphany. Good tea (in comparison to the muck sold in Finland) doesn't taste absolutely horrid after letting it steep four minutes too long.
<Seeker`> how long do you leave your teabags in the tea?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tea is duisgusting.
<Myrtti> "too long"
<Myrtti> I'm sorry but I'm not a connoisseur by any stretch. I like tea, but not enough to stand by the teapot to time how many minutes I let it steep
<MooDoo> Seeker`: i prefer it weak so I let the tea bag wave hello then remove it lol
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: says he who drinks warm beer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> And what is wrong with proper beer?
<MooDoo> hmmmm beer, i prefer it to lager i'm not afraid of a little flavour
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lahga is for northerners and kids
<MooDoo> lahga, is that shoft for wife beater ;)
<BigRedS> do they drink lager in the north? I always assumed it was more southern
<TheOpenSourcerer> The only people I know who drink Lahga are from 'tup North but now live down here.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So that must be a fact
<BigRedS> Ahh
<BigRedS> they've come south and gone soft
<MooDoo> I'm from midlands and I use lagha to clean my loos as that's all it's good for ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I saw one at the Beer festival last last weekend and he actually said to me, he'd found some beer that tasted like Lahga.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Go figure.
<BigRedS> haha
<MooDoo> disgusting
<TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/peteDL1/status/328109981838753792
<MooDoo> I hope you unfriendd them
<brobostigon> lahga, i will make a note of that,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, no; he's quite funny really.
<TheOpenSourcerer> he's a proper northerner and that's how he pronounces it.
<MooDoo> is it lahga or laaaaaaaaaahga! ;)
<brobostigon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/40970.wss
<MooDoo> could of made it cooler and said it was tron and cursor ;)
<MooDoo> but very cool
<davmor2> beer around the world seems to be called Larger in some fashion, apart from america there they call beer cors  they are the real criminals ;)
<brobostigon> or in certain parts of europe, it is a pilsner, or a hefe-weizen.
<MooDoo> http://www.beer-pages.com/images/lager-boy.jpg
<BigRedS> so what's the background made of?
<sara> off to italy.
<redtape> sara, that's interesting | I've been invited to Southern Italy this summer  .. what is the cheapest flight for you ?
<shrik> I've been to Italy a couple of times. Ryanair is almost always the cheapest, but you get what you pay for..
<christle> ho ho ho
<MooDoo> green giant?
<directhex> now there's a blast from the past
<Myrtti> *WWWHHHOOOPPP*
 * Myrtti jumpglomps christle 
<Myrtti> AlanBell: http://www.buzzfeed.com/babymantis/20-pictures-of-chickens-wearing-sweaters-1opu
<christle> hey myrtti! ;3
<christle> are you in the uk atm? :)
<Myrtti> I am, stranded in the Fens while the D goes to the office to build meerkat burrows
<christle> i say!
<christle> you should bring D into london and come to my movie premiere on friday!
<Myrtti> I would but his working hours are silly
<Myrtti> well, rather, strict office hours
<christle> ah boo!
<diplo> Afternoon all
<AlanBell> Myrtti: that is quite cool, but my chickens have feathers :)
<AlanBell> o/ christle
<christle> hullu diplo :)
<christle> Alanis!
 * Seeker` wonders if christle forgot how to spell her name
<christle> Seeker`: yup! ;)
<diplo> Blimey, christle long time no see. Been hiding ?
<Seeker`> Ah, It is 'el' at the end, in case you were wondering :P
<christle> yes! you all scare me!
<diplo> heh
<Myrtti> I think she's hiding
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I just thought they looked cute :-P
<AlanBell> oh, did you see my egg skelter Myrtti?
<AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/kitchen/egg_skelters/8531/egg_skelter_red_for_medium_to_large_eggs/
<Myrtti> that's nice!
<Pendulum> christle: hiya!
<christle> heey pretty
<Pendulum> christle: you keep abandoning us, it's not nice :(
<christle> aww i will stop at some point! :P
<christle> abandoning you that is
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<SuperMatt> 'noon
<popey> morning
<DJones> czajkowski: Are you ok for a pm?
<daubers> wth happened to nautilus in 13.04??
<daubers> It looks like something I made! (That is _NOT_ a good thing!)
 * popey points daubers at upstream GNOME
<daubers> sigh
 * daubers gets the blowtorch
<czajkowski> DJones: sure
<SuperMatt> woo, skype is now fixed for raring64
<bigcalm> Oh? I can undo the fix I jimmied in?
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/8698327851/in/photostream
<mgdm> :D
<mgdm> I have space invader ones
<bigcalm> I wanted decent space invader ones in silver. But the only ones I liked are sold out
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: I guess
<SuperMatt> it's working for me now
<SuperMatt> ooh, and they've fixed the thing where when it's pinned, if you click the button again it loads a new instance
<bigcalm> I didn't have that trouble in 12.10
<bigcalm> Wish I could remember what it was I did to make skype work on 13.04
<SuperMatt> did you follow a think on webupd8?
<SuperMatt> or did you downgrade a package?
<bigcalm> I followed a thing
<SuperMatt> well done
<bigcalm> I should google
<SuperMatt> I tend not to follow things unless I make sure I know how to undo the thing
<sara> redtape, i got invited  today and they paid the ticket today so about 1000 for a return from glasgow
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: can you look through your history
<SuperMatt> history | grep skype
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: it was by adding a 2 line export and run bash script in /usr/local/bin. Just removed it, updated, upgraded and happy skype once more
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: thanks for the notification
<bigcalm> 40 mins to quittin' time. 130 mins to beerin' time (LUG)
<SuperMatt> you're welcome
<SuperMatt> quittin time is in 10 minutes, then I'm going on a run
<SuperMatt> round regents park
<popey> quitting time here is in ~5.5 hours
<bigcalm> I know it was only out on Thursday, but I'm surprised that there haven't been more updates for 13.04
<SuperMatt> I'm waiting for the go-ahead to switch to 13.10 :D
<bigcalm> popey: you can never quit the thinking machine.
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: I'm guessing that you're in favour of the rolling release then :)
<SuperMatt> of course
<popey> most of the company are on a sprint
<popey> I'd expect more updates next week
<popey> also, on thursdays â»
<bigcalm> popey: that is a very good point
<MartijnVdS> which is tomorrow
<SuperMatt> I can't wait until the cutting edge gets upgraded automatically
<bigcalm> popey: why Thursday in particular?
<SuperMatt> (if that's happening)
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: not a fan of stability?
<SuperMatt> I am
<SuperMatt> I just don't have many machines that I'd call "production"
<bigcalm> Daviey: this you? https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/943487_655051764524280_436371696_n.jpg
<MartijnVdS> doesn't look like him?
<SuperMatt> my laptop normally goes first, then my work desktop, then my home desktop, followed by my servers
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: the middle one, not the dog :P
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: oh!
<bigcalm> I have to have my work station always working. My laptop gets the latest and greatest. Which has been my down fall on occasion when I've needed a unbroken laptop
<SuperMatt> the rate at which I convert is quite sporadic
<SuperMatt> basically, I'll convert everything else once I've found there's something on my laptop that I like soooo much
<popey> bigcalm: thursday is not friday
<popey> best not to release stuf on friday
<popey> â»
<SuperMatt> indeed
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/raring-changes/2013-April/thread.html
<popey> quite a few updates
<bigcalm> popey: I quite agree, the kernel team needs to agree as well some day
<SuperMatt> our rules for go-live here are "never after 3.30, and never on a friday"
<Daviey> bigcalm: not me!
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfQwXEqYaI
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: omg
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: why are my ears bleeding?
<bigcalm> :)
<mungbean> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<Laney> pang
<mungbean> 5 hrs no talky must er a record
<popey> shhh
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> hey all o/
 * mgdm listens to the Wurzels doing Common People
<daftykins> :o
<popey> hi daftykins
<daftykins> that sir, sounds like genius
<daftykins> popey: i ordered myself a Nexus 4 via the ship2me.co.uk couriers that bring things over from Southampton, in the end :)
<popey> heh
<daftykins> Â£12.50 for the service
<popey> i have another one on order, should arrive today
<mgdm> daftykins: it most certainly is
<popey> (I still hate them)
<mgdm> daftykins: on Spotify, if you have that
<daftykins> however, a friendly chap at the HMRC informed me that i can actually demand under UK law that they refund me the tax, as my order counted as an 'indirect export' outside of the EC \o/
<daftykins> so i've told my latest Google Support pal 'Brianna' to pass this information on to the UK tax wing at Google, as one as lowly as a customer is not permitted to converse with them direct
<daftykins> and i expect my fob-off soon
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> popey: what're you doing with them then? :D
<popey> installing ubuntu on it
<Laney> dropping it
<daftykins> i'm quite liking mine, super fast :)
<daftykins> i got one of these Ringke Fusion cases for it
<popey> wakka wakka
<daftykins> nice plastic around the side with a clear back so you can still see the pretty pattern on the rear :>
<popey> reminds me, wlil need to buy a cover for it
<popey> different colour one so I can tell the difference between them
<Laney> orange?
<popey> wise!
<Laney> #DD4814
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMRICK-Nexus-Google-Protective-Purple/dp/B00AF7JBKS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1367446668&sr=8-4&keywords=nexus+4+cover
<popey> aubergine!
<Laney> COMMUNITY
<popey> hehe http://www.amazon.co.uk/iGloo-Silicone-Cover-Nexus-Mobile/dp/B00AZZN97Q/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367446705&sr=1-5&keywords=nexus+4+cover+orange
<popey> 10 of them!
<daftykins> how the hell did i not see this the other day 0o
<daftykins> heh :D
<daftykins> you know what always makes me laugh?
<daftykins> peeps selling screen protectors for products with gorilla glass
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/iTALKonline-ORANGE-Bumper-Protective-Armour/dp/B00BSGNLLA/ref=sr_1_10?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367446808&sr=1-10&keywords=nexus+4+cover+orange
<popey> why is that odd?
<popey> gorilla glass still scratches badly
<popey> http://phandroid.com/2013/04/11/nexus-4-rant/  haha
<daftykins> i've taken keys to my HP Touchpad
<daftykins> 'twas fine
<daftykins> but then i think i just care for my gear better than most :D
<daftykins> mines got those new feet ^
<mungbean> my tp got smashed
<daftykins> aww :(
<mungbean> by a falling bowl
<mungbean> but i replaced thew screen \p/
<daftykins> :D
<mungbean> then it died from overdrawn battery
<mungbean> but i replaced the battery \p/ (harder than screen)
<mungbean> heh my nephew puts hour long minecraft vids hes made on youtube. i dont have clue wats happning
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i don't understand how anyone has the patience for minecraft
<daftykins> though, i'm not a creative person
<daftykins> plus i've lost interest with gaming entirely :D
<mungbean> if i was15 i would
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> true
<mungbean> no time to be intrested now
<daftykins> it's funny when you see what the youngsters of today misspend their youth with
<mungbean> feeding babies and sleeping is all i do now#
<mungbean> keeps them off street corners
<daftykins> adoption?
<mungbean> if i had time id make more airfix models
<mungbean> irl is better
<daftykins> =]
<mungbean> bought new airbrush 6 weeks ago, haven't had spare second to try it yet
<daftykins> nice :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-02
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Play Your Ukulele Day! :-D
<MooDoo> When I'm cleaning windows....
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon MooDoo
<mungbean> morning
<mungbean> looks nice again outside
<brobostigon> afternoonings mungbean
<brobostigon> prediction for the local elections today, the lib-con vote will decline, badly.
<mungbean> there's elections?
<brobostigon> yes.
<Myrtti> in some places
<mungbean> council ones outside london i guess?
<brobostigon> council and a by-election in south shields.
<brobostigon> yes.
<MooDoo> yes we've got elections in nottingham as well
 * brobostigon has already done his vote.
<mungbean> councils =/= parliament though
<MooDoo> i'm doing mine tonight
<mungbean> people protest vote and ruin their local area
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i think 22:00 is closing for most
<Myrtti> I just find British elections highly confusing, too little to choose from
<brobostigon> three big parties, a splattering of independents, and then a few tiny parties like, monster raving loony.
<mungbean> and the whip ensures MPs generally toe the line even if they disagree
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes I finish at 5:30 so i'll be ok
<brobostigon> MooDoo: thats why, i have noticed, there are tons of independents.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, :)
<brobostigon> mungbean: thats why, i have noticed, there are tons of independents.
<brobostigon> sorry tab fail, on the first one,
<MooDoo> my friend is trying to be elected.
<brobostigon> good luck to him.
<mungbean> unless he's a jerk , then .. :P
<mungbean> an independent or party drone MooDoo ?
<brobostigon> monster raving loony candidate?
<MooDoo> mungbean: conservative
<brobostigon> more luck needed, that being the case.
 * brobostigon shakes his fist, at unannounced silent calls and not so silent calls, 
<brobostigon> also arent they distinctly illegal, unless you have a preior relationship with said company, ?
<mungbean> Talktalk got done for doing it to their own cystomers
<brobostigon> yes, i heard about that, they got fined twice, if i remember.
<mungbean> redhat's logo is called shadowman. i find that creepy
<BigRedS> it's certainly not as happy-clappy as "circle of friends"
<amayer> have there been any updates to 13.04 since it was released?
<andylockran> Well my #nexus4 arriced today
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan__> flashed it with ubuntu touch yet?
<diddledan__> :-p
<brobostigon> lol, i just checked my long-not-updated blog, brobostigon.wordpress.com which i havent updated in atleast a year, and this year 28 people have looked at it, amazing.
<diddledan__> 28 real people?!
<brobostigon> seems so.
<diddledan__> you're more popular than me.. I don't think I even know that many people :-p
<jussi> andylockran: as did mine!
<brobostigon> i last updated it on 27/03/2011, so over two years. not one.
<diddledan__> I dread to think how long I've let my site dwindle
<diddledan__> although I did add a couple of password-protected portfolio items yesterday - first time I've looked at the site in ages
<AlanBell> bug 1131646 is very annoying
<lubotu3> bug 1131646 in Unity "alt-tab: cursor keys to navigate switcher are counter-intuitive" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1131646
<diddledan__> sorry about the noise
<diddledan__> was trying to work out emacs and erc. I decided that emacs keybindings are evil
<diplo> Guys, easiest way to check a web hosting company has an outgoing port blocked ?
<BigRedS> AlanBell: yeah, the alt-tab thing isn't quite insane any more, but it's still fairly broken
<diplo> telnet to the ip / port of the service you are trying to connect to ?
<diplo> Mine is SOAP related, running on 8733
<BigRedS> yeah, and also from a host where you know it's open, to demonstrate that it's not the remote host blocking it
<diplo> ok yeah tried that
<diplo> ta
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, it is almost back to as good as it was when it was a window switcher
<BigRedS> I can't think of a way for a nonprivileged user to determine where the block happens
<BigRedS> AlanBell: but I still frequently alt-tab to the desktop by mistake
<AlanBell> I am annoyed that the gnome-shell implementation of the same thing feels much more logical
<BigRedS> Generally, gnome-shell seems to be done better than unity
<BigRedS> especially when it's not running in Ubuntu
<ali1234> bug 1174054
<AlanBell> up and down cursors actually do the same kind of thing, but they *look* like they are going to do it
<lubotu3> bug 1174054 in unity (Ubuntu) ""Always on top" breaks spread/expose" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174054
<BigRedS> yeah, I can't remember what the unity one looks like now, but the gnome one made instant sense to me
<czajkowski>  BigRedS any idea where else we should promote http://hackntalkjune.eventbrite.com/ to ?
<czajkowski> hate spamming lists
<AlanBell> unity displays the window thumbnails in a 2d collection for the app concerned, but you can't navigate up and down, just left and right, and you can't start by going right
<czajkowski> but be nice to let others know about it
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/alttab.png
<AlanBell> looks like that
<BigRedS> czajkowski: gllug? Not sure otherwise. I'll mention it at nerdy events I find myself at
<BigRedS> Though that sort-of requires that I pull my finger out and start going to more of them
<BigRedS> gllug's probably quiet enough that they'd appreciate the traffic :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: yu on the list
<BigRedS> yeah, if you're not I'm happy to post to it
<BigRedS> I don't think I've mailed it this decade, though :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: yes that would be great please
<czajkowski> thank you
<czajkowski> might let you off giving a talk now :p
<BigRedS> haha, I don't do interesting things, I've nothing to talk about :)
<BigRedS> Have you mailed any other lists? I just tried to plagiarise your ubuntu-uk post but there doesn't seem to be one
<BigRedS> You've not even blogged yet! Tsk tsk. http://hackntalk.org/ :)
<mungbean> anyone on centos6 can give me a centos extras repo file please?
<MooDoo> mungbean: hang on
<MooDoo> mungbean: damn where is it?
<neuro>  /etc/yum/yaddayadda?
<MooDoo> mungbean: only got these in yum.repos.d CentOS-Base.repo       CentOS-Media.repo  epel.repo
<MooDoo> CentOS-Debuginfo.repo  CentOS-Vault.repo  epel-testing.repo
<neuro> mungbean: this what you're after? https://gist.github.com/evilneuro/5503129
<MooDoo> lol just pasted him that :)
<neuro> haha
<MooDoo> thats for 5 though not 6 :)
<neuro> yeah, i only have immediate access to 5.9 hosts
<MooDoo> not that there is much difference
<neuro> (hosts that i'm trying desperately to burn off the face off the earth and replace with 12.04.2)
<MooDoo> lol
<BigRedS> neuro: haha, we're going the other way
<neuro> shame :)
<BigRedS> well, 10.10 to 6.x
<neuro> ooh, github are doing drinkies in edinburgh next friday
<mungbean> anyone have issues rebooting new poweredge servers running linux?
<mungbean> gets stuck at blank screen when you would expect clean shutdown and POST
<mungbean> R815
<popey> morning
<diddledan__> allo popey
<diddledan__> ooh don't I sound the cockney geezer with my "allo"?!
<diddledan__> no offence intended to real cockneys, obviously
<diddledan__> bbl, going home
<davmor2> morning popey how is SF?
<popey> warm
<diddledan_> and back
<Laney> <._.>
<popey>  /89
<popey> bah!
<DJones> Has anybody come across an app appearing in the unity bar with a ? as the icon, hovering over the icon gives it the name "exe", right clicking shows a blank top line with lock to launcher & quit below it.  Running Top and clicking on the icon doesn't appear to do anything, nothing unusual jumps to the top of running apps, can't quit/close it down
<dwatkins> DJones: perhaps it's a storage device?
<DJones> dwatkins: I can't see that, I haven't plugged any devices in
<dwatkins> hmm, no idea then
<shauno> seems the installer and the booted system enumerate my eth0/1 ports back to front.  is that normal?
<dwatkins> perhaps the drivers loaded in the opposite order
<shauno> should be the same driver, they're identical (onboard)
<shauno> just trying to figure out the logic because it has my slightly worried that they might renumber after a reboot
<redtape> OT | Not sure if anyone's mentioned it , but it looks as though Ubuntu TV is now an unknown "wildcard" according to Mark .. @4:30 in the vidz [ http://bit.ly/1336VKw ] Note this has been shared over 25 times already, off UWNewsletter .. the 'baggs' are signs to me that the teams are in overdrive as far as getting it to manufacturers. Wonder if they will  "make a baggs of it". out.
<popey> "baggs"?
<mungbean> confused
<mungbean> what the heck is wrong with iplayer. its a lottery whether you will get the programme you want
<diddledan> doesn't that sum up british telly in general? :-p
<popey> worked for me last night when i grabbed doctor who
<diddledan> even if the programme is the same as advertised, it probably isn't what you "wanted" it to be
<mungbean> man lab only showing 1 episode
<mungbean> stuff used to be around for weeks
<diddledan> grr man
<mungbean> and its episode 1
<mungbean> ep5 was on last week
<mungbean> i videod ep1 and it had the man making faces in the corner
<popey> I see 5 of them
<mungbean> link pls?
<mungbean> i see "watch now" 24 minutes left
<popey> no, in get_iplayer
<diddledan> that man in the corner is in quite a lot of demand - he seems to be on everything that's shown late at night. I donno how he remembers his lines for so many different shows
<mungbean> check get_
<popey> \o/ Nexus 4 arrived
<mungbean> popey , i see 1 in get_iplayer?
<diddledan> woot
<Laney> *smash*
<mungbean> whic ids?
<popey> hah
<diddledan> popey, did you flash it with fondle-buntu, yet? :-p
<popey> its downloading episode 1 now
<popey> diddledan: doing it now
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> interesting, get_iplayer is also showing me only ep1 of 'man lab'
<mungbean> popey is on drugs?
<shauno> you're probably stil crazy, but at least it isn't solitary confinement
<popey> -rw-rw-r--  1 alan alan 7.4M May  2 21:39 James_Mays_Man_Lab_Series_3_-_Episode_1_b01rmhlc_default.partial.mp4.flv
<popey> on its way
<mungbean> ep1 is the only one i can see
<diddledan> I suppose I'm gonna have to go hunt down get_iplayer now to tesst myself?!
<mungbean> < popey> I see 5 of them
<diddledan> oh how friendly, it's in the repos
<mungbean> for a while iplayer was the equivalnet of "i'll photoshop it later"
<mungbean> if you forgot to record a programme
<mungbean> but now its useless
<mungbean> ep5 FIRST BROADCAST: 25 Apr 2013
<shauno> it might actually be the data coming out of the beeb that's at fault
<shauno> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0105yvp   says latest episode is series 3, ep1
<mungbean> i think ep1 was repeated so is available again
<diddledan> I see 5 eps
<mungbean> what is this witchcraft?
<mungbean> what search term?
<diddledan> $ get-iplayer "man lab"
<mungbean> :(
<mungbean> gonna try from my work pc
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5627162/
<mungbean> hey!!!
<mungbean> 5 eps from my work machine
<popey> get_iplayer caches
<shauno> different versions if get_iplayer?
<mungbean> same ver
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5627165/ I'm running 2.82, shauno you're running 2.66 - might be a potential reason
<shauno> yeah, this machine is on LTS
<mungbean> i'm on 2.82 on both
<shauno> I don't do anything exciting with something I can't walk to :)
<diddledan> vps?
<shauno> yup
<shauno> removed ~/.get_iplayer/*cache, same result
<mungbean> WARNING: No programmes are available for this pid with version(s): default (audiodescribed are available)
<mungbean> cannot download it?
<popey> right, so it downloaded the first one but wont download any more
<mungbean> scummers
<diddledan> I can't download any of them, not even the first one
<mungbean> nor me anymore
<popey> -rw-rw-r--  1 alan alan 338M May  2 21:48 James_Mays_Man_Lab_Series_3_-_Episode_1_b01rmhlc_default.mp4
<popey> just finished
<popey> get_iplayer -g "man lab"  --vmode=flashhd,flashvhigh,flashhigh
<mungbean> which command please popey
<popey> thats what I did
<mungbean> WARNING: No programmes are available for this pid
<mungbean> i think the timer on ep1 was running down and about to expire
<mungbean> looks like just did
<mungbean> its on youtube , panic over
<dwatkins> Under Jobs, Ive worked as the head of product design.
<mungbean> thanks for confirming that bbc are scummers
<mungbean> i only had an hour before the next feed and spent 20 mins fannying
<diddledan> better that than the reverse :-p
<mungbean> now i've got all your attention - a poweredge server refuses to reboot without the finger - centos6.4
<mungbean> any idea?
<mungbean> bios version up to speed
<diddledan> ..|..
<diddledan> "unscrew the cap and push off"
<mungbean> everyones gone quiet as they are now watching manlab
<mungbean> i notice they follow the mythbusters format of "lets see how we get on later in the show"
<diddledan> time for bed
<dwatkins> "Here's one I prepared earlier"
<shauno> well, that was possibly the most disgusting command I've ever run.  for each .deb in /var/cache/apt/archives, apt-get --purge -y ${file/_*/}
<mungbean> eww
<bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
<mungbean> still waiting for system snapshots due to btfrs
<shauno> that would come in quite handy right now
<mungbean> having a punchable face (ie. nigel farage) surely can't help in politics
<dwatkins> next time I install an OS, it'll just be cirtual, so I can use snapshots
<dwatkins> *virtual
<shauno> that's what I'm aiming for.  but this is the box that's to host them
<shauno> despite afore-mentioned hosing.  it'll get a clean slate once I've figured out why the setup I built in a VM isn't working in hardware
<mungbean> https://www.suse.com/communities/conversations/introduction-system-rollbacks-btrfs-and-snapper-sles-11-sp2/
<shauno> this openstack stuff is still confusing the life out of me, but it looks like our best bet until vmware stop demanding windows for all their management tools
<mungbean> vmware are making progress
<mungbean> sooner or later vsphere will be a virtual appliance without need for win client
<directhex> dwatkins, you can do snapshots without it being virtual, e.g. with lvm
<shauno> well that's notable.  if your preseed wants to set a mysql password, and you have a pre-existing db on disk, it just stops dead.  ^C didn't break either.  had to ssh in and kill mysqld
<dwatkins> directhex: neat, thanks
<mungbean> i'll always be grateful to reddit for the one piece of advice that changed my life
<dwatkins> what's that, mungbean?
<directhex> don't eat yellow snow
<mungbean> if you have a meeting at 11am and you look at your watch..10.56
<mungbean> but you feel a poo coming on
<mungbean> you sit down and need a speed poo
<mungbean> rock 3 forward times so your head goes down to knee level
<mungbean> you'll make that 11:00 meeting
<mungbean> and few pounds lighter
<mungbean> repeat if necessary, but 3 rocks usually helps
<mungbean> lol @ manlab using cats with webcams to detect burglars
<dwatkins> webcams fitted to cats?
<mungbean> cameras
<mungbean> sorry not webcams
<mungbean> caught james anyway
<shauno> catburglaralarms do seem like the logical response to catburglars
<mungbean> S03E02
<shauno> hm, now the installer is hating me.  I think I may give up for tonight
<dwatkins> thanks mungbean, I will look it up after it's finished
<mungbean> this guy on the news pays 900pm on an interest only mortgage?
<directhex> that's a lot
<directhex> i pay 750 on capital repayment. down from 1050 last year
<mungbean> he sounbds like a victim(has Â£6 in savinds), but it was his choice
<mungbean> gonna have to get smaller house then
<dwatkins> I had six quid in savings once, then I bought a house...
<mungbean> 6% interest on 189k
<mungbean> on the plus side, if he lost the house he wouldnt lose capitak
<mungbean> just would be like renting for those years
<dwatkins> yeah, I never saw the point of interest-only, unless you're renting the place out
<mungbean> unless you are expectinh inheritance in 15yrs
<popey> our mortage is ~1K too. somewhat painful.
<dwatkins> considering the current research being done on mice, I'm half expecting my parents to be immortal.
<dwatkins> I have a fairly small flat on the 3rd floor, but that's offset by being close to the centre of Edinburgh, so I'm paying about three quarters of that.
<mungbean> popey: capital too right?
 * dwatkins assumes popey has more than 2 bedrooms
<popey> 3
<popey> Sam has the really small room tho
<shauno> okay, now I can go to sleep a happy chappy .. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23042/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-02%20at%2023.59.02.png
<daftykins> what on earth be they 0o
<shauno> it's finally bringing nodes up without complaining about anything.  given the time, that's all I'm going to ask for tonight :)
<daftykins> what's the eventual aim?
<shauno> being able to bring up & tear down labs from a nice simplified UI so I don't have to be involved
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> sounds useful for education
<daftykins> at least, at a high level anyway
<shauno> the next fun bit will be turning out 'appliance' into something I can use.  it's usually deployed on vmware
<daftykins> =]
<shauno> but because it's meant to be the controller for the management lan, it's difficult to have multiple versions living side by side.  they bicker like children
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> i recall a lab at my Uni, where they hadn't filtered traffic between a teaching lab with custom installs vs. some sun workstations
<shauno> so the idea is to be able to replicate various setups by just ticking which versions of which applications they want on the network, and it'll go off and build it
<daftykins> playing with SNMP or some-such, the students in the lab had accidentally instructed the sun gear to switch themselves all off, having considered themselves 'subordinate' somehow
<daftykins> ah nice :D sounds fun
<daftykins> is it in education at all, or?
<shauno> yeah, we have a similar problem with this beastie.  if it's plugged into the wrong network, it'll go looking for various devices with default credentials, and assume ownership of them
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> i love it when tech appears almost alive
<shauno> and since said devices are our products, there's quite a few of them laying around the network
<shauno> not educational so much, more being able to troubleshoot our own products by recreating the scenario so we can see what actually happens
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> virt is great for that i'd imagine
<daftykins> i use virt a lot for testing installs, software configs, etc.
<shauno> I'm not sure it's ideal, but it's a whole lot easier to make happen, than requesting various bits of hardware that just never seem to arrive
<daftykins> yep, just put together a box with plenty of RAM and fast storage and weeeee
<daftykins> is it a pretty serious piece of kit you're cranking out those little systems on, or are they quite simply spec'd?
<shauno> it's a previous-generation server.  so nothing impressive, but more than sufficient
<shauno> I'll be happier once I manage to beg/borrow/steal some more ram, but 15k disks & two xeons is way more than we need
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-03
<redtape> OT | Just realised that I am not missing anything on USA-TV then, Look at this bunch-o-balls :: http://getglue.com/stickers ,for some clue of what's on . Feel sorry for the popey-miester on his travels. (dunno if returned, or not).
<redtape> bit random, but it's 3am and the clock too cantankerous to talk to. Nite 'all.
<MooDoo> hello all
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy World Press Freedom Day! :-D
<MooDoo> lol JamesTait don't ever stop these, they do make me chuckle :D
<JamesTait> MooDoo, glad to be of service. :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, a lot of them make me smirk as well. There's some absolute nonsense, really, but I think it's less boring than just "Good morning".
<MooDoo> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I thought World Press Freedom day was yesterday?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - my bad.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just saw some stuff about it on twitter yesterday
<JamesTait> Disappointed that I won't be able to hail Star Wars Day this year.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> I intend to punch anybody saying "May the fourth be with you" tomorrow
<BigRedS> I might just not go out
<MooDoo> you know it's going to happen
<brobostigon> it was my dads birthday yesterday, so i bought him nice food and beer etc last night, i asked him this morning how he was, he said and i quote "i feel terrible, and i blame you." lol
<MooDoo> lol
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<diddledan_> when all else fails, pass the buck onto shauno
<diddledan_> he loves it
<brobostigon> or in my case, onto me.
<diddledan_> nah, you sidestep and reblame shauno :-p
<brobostigon> okies.
<diddledan_> obviously if shauno fails, then it's all on canada
 * diddledan_ sings
<brobostigon> oh canada, etc. woopsie.
<shrik> anyone know why my wireless would work in KDE but not in Unity?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<bigcalm> So, who is working and who are playing Portal instead?
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> I'm working
<bigcalm> I'm working as well :(
<bigcalm> But steam is grabbing Portal at 7.5MB/s, so I don't know if I'll be working for much longer
<brobostigon> my dad just asked me, what sky'd broadband and customer service is like, as he wants to switch from talktalk, i said to him, i dont know, any advice?
<brobostigon> sky's*
<shrik> sky is pretty good where i'm at
<shrik> (west london)
<bigcalm> shrik: the customer service?
<shrik> yep, they're extremely helpful, and escalate to proper techs if the script doesn't work
<shrik> (having said that, i'm just switching to plusnet as it saves about 8 quid a month)
<brobostigon> ok, thank you shrik
<shrik> also, I believe Sky is the only broadband provider that don't do traffic management
<bigcalm> VirginMedia's service is great, it's their customer service that lets them down sadly
<brobostigon> interesting,
<shrik> np, brobostigon
<shrik> why would my wireless work only in KDE and not in Unity..? bug in NetworkManager?
<brobostigon> i do beleieve they both use different network management utilities.
<BigRedS> they use different applets, but both use NM underneath
<BigRedS> so, perhaps a bug in nm-applet (as used by Gnome & Unity)? What doesn't work shrik
<brobostigon> ah
<BigRedS> ?
<shrik> the wireless networks are listed, but I'm unable to connect to any of them
<shrik> (in Unity)
<shrik> the /var/log/syslog output looks fine up to a point, when it just says "Authentication timed out"
<BigRedS> ooh, odd
<shrik> it was actually fine till last night, only was a problem today morning
<shrik> and literally nothing changed (that I know of) since then
<mungbean> why is my centos 6 server networking not coming up on boot? i have disabled ownership by networkmanager. when i do service network restart it comes up?
<mungbean> (also system-config-network doesn't show the new style devices :( )
<diddledan_> try chkconfig network on?
<mungbean> bah, lost connection, gonna have to go over :(
<mungbean> unless drac express gives me console?
<shauno> diddledan_: didn't do it!
<bigcalm> Do I really need more O'Reilly books?
<mgdm> in eBook form, sure
<mgdm> in dead tree? Probably not
<bigcalm> 50% off today with the code DRM2013
<mgdm> nice
<mgdm> is that for any book or a specific section?
<bigcalm> Yeah, I don't really get on with eBooks for technical material. I like to be able to flick back
<bigcalm> Um
<bigcalm> http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zo9ma1efg1oajrh0msu5gl8lpeuv9ds7k3s7jlk8?imm_mid=0a712a&cmp=em-npa-books-videos-day-against-drm2013-direct
<bigcalm> lornajane's book is in there for instance. Might get that
<mgdm> Yeah, that was what I was thinking
<mgdm> I suppose if I get it on dead tree I can get it signed :-)
<mgdm> GPG signing an ebook just isn't the same
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> What else might be worth picking up? Git maybe?
<mgdm> I've got a bunch of the JavaScript ones
<mgdm> (The Good Parts, JavaScript Patterns, a couple more)
<bigcalm> Already have JavaScript and AJAX definitive guides
<mgdm> I'd recommend having a look at JS: The Good Parts
<bigcalm> Righto
<mgdm> While the Definitive Guide book tells you all about everything, TGP is more about good patterns and conventions to follow
<mgdm> it's also quite short :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Grrr. Laptop on 13.04 occasionally drops its wifi connection and the ap it was connected to disappears from the list. Other wifi devices remain connected though
<bigcalm> I wonder if 13.04 is a coincidence and it's due to running a xbee wireless mesh network that's causing weirdness
<mungbean> diddledan_: yes, network service was not on!!
<mungbean> thanks , how strange
<diddledan_> I think because they expect networkmanager to handle it instead
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> No books on qml :(
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<mungbean> anyone tried redirecting console output to idrac express?
<bigcalm> Grr
<bigcalm> ^w does different things in different windows :)
<diddledan_> you thought you were using nano?
<mungbean> generally closes stuff dunnit?
<BigRedS> ^-L in
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> ^L in Pidgin is the one that gets me
<diddledan_> nano is the culprit for most of my ^w mistakes
<mungbean> i get peeved if using unity and alt-E to switch to channel 13 in irrssi
<BigRedS> I think I'm getting to firefox's address bar, but instead I clear the chat history that I didn't realise was focussed...
<directhex> ^W is close tab in everything except nano
<directhex> yay nano
<BigRedS> It doesn't seem to do anything in the One True Editor
<MooDoo> oooo watching the election results is exciting lol
<brobostigon> lib-con backlash evidant.
<MooDoo> too early where i am to tell, but yes i'm expecting that
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> in the seat here, ;abour got it by atleast over 200 votes, over second , which is conservative.
<MooDoo> labour gained one seat from the conservatives
<funkyHat> ^W is also "delete a word", which leads to endless fun for me when I'm using a browser-based terminal emulator. ^W...aw crap I closed the tab again
<brobostigon> 24% turnout, ohdear.
 * funkyHat didn't know there were elections
<brobostigon> exactly, thats why there was a such a low turnout.
<brobostigon> no one seems to read the newspapers nor watch the news on the tv.
<brobostigon> funkyHat: out of curiosity how old are you? as statistics show, you are more likely to be interested and vote if you are older.
<funkyHat> brobostigon: 25
<brobostigon> funkyHat: there you go, you are within the young disinterested bracket, being that age.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: that explains why I voted lol
<funkyHat> â¢)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes, maybe,
<MooDoo> lol
<funkyHat> I'm not totally disinterested. I would have made an effort if I'd known there were elections... I usually vote
<funkyHat> Hm, maybe I forgot to register when I moved
<brobostigon> but the facts are, more older people vote, generally, than the young,
<shauno> I can't seem to get registered, which is a nuisance
<brobostigon> funkyHat: ah, i see.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yum labour seems to be taking a few conservative seats
<MooDoo> yup i meant
<brobostigon> MooDoo: yes.
<davmor2> so bigcalm how you getting on with raring?
<diplo> Hi all
<diplo> Any cups people here ?
<diplo> Got a printer that will only print duplex
<diplo> Can't work out how to disable via cli, any ideas ?
<diplo> All online stuff is people wanting the opposite, both Canon printers
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's on my laptop, but I haven't done much with it yet. There's an issue with wifi buggering off, but I think that might be my network
 * bigcalm treats himself to a wee bit of Portal
<Myrtti> new glasses today whee wheeeeeeeeee wheeee wheee
<directhex> from google?
<Myrtti> I haven't robbed anyone.
<Myrtti> so no. from Tesco.
<neuro> oh my $deity
<neuro> today could be expensive
<neuro> http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/day-against-drm.do
<neuro> 50% off all ora e-books
<Myrtti> must not buy all Craft:
<Myrtti> although I seem to already have most of them
<czajkowski> hmmm skype is being an arse on raring
<czajkowski> I make one call and it freezes
<czajkowski> restart it and it's fine
<czajkowski> most annoying
<neuro> Cart Subtotal $69.59
<neuro> squeeee
<Myrtti> czajkowski: that's considerably better than some of the apps I've got on my Debian Wheezy. Keepass2 crashes silently to a state where nothing else helps than relogging into session.
<czajkowski> Myrtti: just annoying as I've to use it on my phone for reliability
<Myrtti> I had to install Skype on Wednesday because my sister uses it still
<neuro> see, this is why I use a Mac ;)
<czajkowski> yeah I talk to my folks back on it
 * neuro awaits the inevitable slappage
<Myrtti> *crickets*
<neuro> no slappage? woot!
<neuro> having to deal with hassles as you mention outweighs, *for me* personally, the benefits of a fully open source desktop, unfortunately
<neuro> but i appreciate things are getting better
<Daviey> neuro: As long as you are not implying that Mac is hassle free :)
<neuro> jeez, not at all
<BigRedS> neuro: I maintain that it's an inevitable path
<BigRedS> certainly for sysadmins
<neuro> just that for me, it's less hassle than ubuntu desktop
<neuro> BigRedS: i can't sing the praises of Server enough
<neuro> i don't deploy anything else these days
<Daviey> neuro: Ubuntu Server?
<neuro> and it was a nice surprise to see the quantal kernel in 12.04.2 when installing fresh :)
<neuro> Daviey: course!
<BigRedS> you start off all enthusiastic and build you own kernels and write your own DE. Then you move to Slack or Gentoo, then to Arch or something, then Debian, then Ubuntu or Fedora and finally you go "sack it, I'll get something that's finished" and buy a mac
<neuro> EXACTLY
<neuro> :D
<Daviey> neuro: I just pee'd a little.  Care to write a blog post about what you do with it?
<czajkowski> and in BigRedS case he has an issue with online services and breaks things :p
<neuro> Daviey: um
<BigRedS> czajkowski: *I* didn't break them :)
<neuro> haha
<czajkowski> BigRedS: I think you'll find you did :)
<neuro> Daviey: i'm not doing much exciting at the moment
<BigRedS> It all seems to work in Debian :)
<neuro> infra for my house and my folks file storage, and currently replacing win+centos with 12.04.2 for work
<neuro> the latter being a paaaaaaaaaaaain
<neuro> batch scripts for the lose
<Daviey> neuro: I'd like to read about your work stuff FWIW.  How well we do (or not) to replace other options.
<neuro> both me and my boss like it
<neuro> </body></html> :)
 * mgdm hopes to sack CentOS in favour of Ubuntu Server some time soon
<Daviey> mgdm: Do write about it. :)
<neuro> Daviey: i'm only 3.5wks into the job, not sure how appropriate it really is for me to start waffling about it
<neuro> especially when time spent waffling at length about it is time spent not working or resting :)
<Daviey> neuro: fair point.  I didn't know you switched gigs.
<neuro> switched gigs for funemployment about 10 months ago
<neuro> signed on at the end of march and then lo and behold a wild job appeared
<mungbean> know anyone else out of work atm looking for job?
<neuro> me? no
<neuro> well, not in the uk
<MooDoo> not out of work lol
<neuro> :)
<Daviey> mungbean: I think most people here would consider for the right Â£lol.amount. :)
<neuro> although in saying that, if anyone groks php dev and lives near oxford, there might, *might* be a gig at my new place
<mungbean> yeah Daviey i wouldn't say its big bucks or worth leaving somewhere for
<neuro> we lost a contractor last week, he came up for renewal and got a better paying gig in nodnol
<directhex> for enough money i'd work in nodnol
<mungbean> how much directhex
<mungbean> i currently work in the wasteland beyonf the city wall, but used to work in nodnol for 35% more Â£Â£
<mungbean> decamped to spawn twice
<directhex> given the hassle of commuting... i'd be expecting closer to 80% more
<directhex> which ins't unreasonable if i started working in finance
 * neuro hugs his telecommute job
 * mungbean glares
<directhex> i work from home 4 days a week
 * mungbean glares at everybody
<Daviey> I feel like i work from home 8 days a week.
<neuro> I'M IN MY PYJAMAS LOL
<neuro> kidding
<mgdm> No pyjamas?
 * mgdm shudders
<mungbean> however i did just go to pub for lunch in the sunshien
<neuro> fully clothed, my friend, fully clothed
<mungbean> doesn't make up for sharing an office and toilet with 40 animals
 * Daviey pictures neuro half naked, on his computer.  irccop.jpg style
<neuro> NOOOOOOOO!
<directhex> i've worked naked before.
<neuro> stop
<directhex> depends on the day
<neuro> just stop
<directhex> today i need to take the boy back to the hospital, so clothes will be needed
<mgdm> the thought of neuro half naked is making even neuro wince...
<bigcalm> Ha
<neuro> ##ifeelthebreezeofmypsufansovermygentlemansarea is over that way ->
<Daviey> ew.
<neuro> oh by the way
<neuro> non-ubuntu thing:
<mungbean> lost my hayfever pills
<neuro> Jeff Hanneman has died
<mgdm> I dunno, my laptop has no fan.
<mungbean> who?
<neuro> so you must all be listening to Slayer a lot today
<mgdm> I never got into Slayer
<neuro> mungbean: founding member of Slayer
<mungbean> God killed him for all the devil music?
<neuro> another benefit of working from home
<neuro> macbook pro + itunes + 28" apple display + slayer + volume up button pressed many many times
<mungbean> some jerk wearing a jumper has just turned off the ac
<neuro> and i can be a total idiot and airplay it simultaneously to my surround system in the lounge and hassle my neighbours
<mgdm> my weekend project is to make my Raspberry Pi be an airplay endpoint
<neuro> noice
<mgdm> it was last weekend's, but stuff
<neuro> stuff wins
<mgdm> not in this case :)
 * neuro tickles ec2
<mgdm> neuro: what's your current gig again?
<neuro> Senior Systems Engineer at www.angloinfo.com
<mgdm> ah ha
<BigRedS> Whoever it was I was ranting to about a /var-on-separate-volume bug, it was 525154
<neuro> wheee
<neuro> i gave up mounting usr and var on separate partitions years ago
<mgdm> I put /var on one, never really bothered with /usr though
<neuro>  /usr/share can get pretty gnarly if you install particular packages with lots of docs or support files
<neuro> but it's not worth the hassle imho
<neuro> and i don't like race conditions :)
<BigRedS>  /var and /home in lvs is our default server install
<BigRedS> but, yeah, that was what got us talking about dropping ubuntu for centos
<neuro> i always put /home on another partition, or another disk if possible
<neuro> in fact i move it to /data/home
<neuro> i always do that now, have additional disks and the like mounted under /data
<BigRedS> why?
<neuro> makes it easier in my head to manage
<BigRedS> that reminds me of windows drive letters...
<BigRedS> one of the things an OS is supposed to do is be an abstraction layer above the hardware. IMO that involves not forcing me to care about how many disks are there and where they're used
<neuro> well, i don't care once i've mounted them
<neuro> then i just care about the data underneath
<BigRedS> if you don't care that it's on a separate disk, why put it under /data?
<neuro> because it's where my data lives
<BigRedS> well, your home dir
<neuro> no, i mean everything
<BigRedS> mv / /data ?
<neuro> tch
<neuro> *all* *my* *data* :)
<neuro> http://pastebin.com/BjwdXAH7
<BigRedS> ew
<neuro> yeah, probably
<BigRedS> I've a far higher opinion of some of the servers I look after now :)
<neuro> ha!
<BigRedS> still, if I don't have to use it, I can't really claim to care too much :)
<BigRedS> I've been getting annoyed recently that when mysql gets its own volume, everyone here seems to feel the need to mount it at /mysql and change its data_dir for no apparent benefit
<neuro> isn't that the point though?
<BigRedS> the point of what?
<neuro> punting the data to another storage location
<BigRedS> no, the point is to get it on its own volume
<BigRedS> and there's no reason to not mount that volume at /var/lib/mysql and stop surprising everyone
<neuro> oh, you're mounting on top of /var/lib/mysql
<BigRedS> well, I'm advocating that
<neuro> totally valid
<BigRedS> but everyone else just mounts at /mysql
<neuro> i'd do /data/mysql ;)
<BigRedS> so I ls /var/lib/mysql/ see nothing and wonder what's happened...
<BigRedS> yeah, you would! :)
<neuro> ha!
<diddledan_> I would follow convention as far as possible - if mysql usually lives under /var/lib then that's where I'd mount any volume that is supposed to house it
<BigRedS> yeah, exactly. There's is an attempted filesystem hierarchy standard, and it seems a bit sensible to stay close to it
<diddledan_> I agree with BigRedS on this. changing locations for no benefit is pointless
<neuro> well convention is one thing, but as long as any production changes made are fully documented, then in theory the mysql data could live anywhere
<BigRedS> neuro: it *could*. But there's no benefit, and there's a loss in thaat you now have an additional thing that you need to document
<diddledan_> yes, it _can_ live anywhere, but everyone expects it in /var/lib/mysql
<BigRedS> it's like switchign the keymap on a server to azerty just because, and noting that down somewhere
<BigRedS> documentation is good, but not needing it is better
<diddledan_> please, if you do that, give me a graphic of the keylayout! :-p
<diddledan_> it's a good way to avoid shoulder password watchers however
<neuro> i'm not getting drawn any more into this argument this close to beer o'clock on a friday :D
<shauno> I love bind mounts for that kinda mess
<MooDoo> neuro: well your no fun i was about to start an ubuntu sucks argument ;)
<BigRedS> shauno: creating it or resolving it? :)
<shauno> BigRedS: yes :)
<BigRedS> haha
<shauno> move mysql onto the array, and then bind-mount it to /var/lib.  so the files are where I want them, and they're accessible where they're expected
<diddledan_> or jsut symlink
<diddledan_> I have spaghetti symlinks all over the shop
<diddledan_> I <3 symlinks!
<neuro> hardlinks are cooler
<shauno> hardlinks don't traverse physical, which I thought was the topic
<BigRedS> no, but I guess you could hardlink to the mountpoint
<directhex> they traverse the *metaphysical*. which is even better
<BigRedS> I've already typed the '-s' before I'm aware of having typed the 'ln' so it's always a moot point for me. Every link is symbolic
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning alan
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<Seeker`> woo, think I'm going to SIGGRAPH
<diddledan_> Gentoo for servers is not fun
<diddledan_> or rather it's fun, but tedious
<diddledan_> you're constantly battling against the elements to get anything done, especially on systems as outdated as my workplace ones are
<neuro> been there, got the brain embolism
<diddledan_> I've got 40 machines to go through fixing stuff before we can even consider ensuring they're security patched
<neuro> :(
<funkyHat> 40 gentoo boxes?
<neuro> are you having to hand hack stuff individually or can you automate it a bit?
<neuro> (dsh is your friend)
<diddledan_> well 10 boxes, and 30 VMs
<diddledan_> unfortunately because they're all so unaligned with each other in terms of what's installed etc I'm having to do it individually
<diddledan_> they _should_ be fairly uniform, but they're not
<neuro> :(
<neuro> i've been there before, albeit with about 10 servers and a slew of workstations; i feel your pain, sir
<redtape> OT | GAME News | Looks like after the steam portal announcement, "The 39 Steps" is in the works , a linux game actually about London (finally !) ::::::: http://news.softpedia.com/news/quot-The-39-Steps-quot-Unique-Game-Will-Combine-Film-and-Literature-349091.shtml   ::
<popey> aquarius: good trip home
<diddledan_> I'm off home, toodles
<kvarley> Does anybody here own L4D2 on Steam?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Has the linux beta gone live yet?
<MartijnVdS> checking
<kvarley> Was meant to be  this week
<MartijnVdS> no
<kvarley> :(
<MartijnVdS> POrtal 1 is though
<kvarley> Think they may have had setbacks and released that instead then
<MartijnVdS> Portal 1 on intel graphics = all textures are grey black/white and very grainy :)
<kvarley> heh
<kvarley> It's only a beta tho remember
<kvarley> I'm just itching to get my hands on L4D2 and CS:Go
<MartijnVdS> sure, and I have a shitty old intel cpu/gpu :)
<MartijnVdS> I can installa CS:S
<MartijnVdS> what is CS:Go?
<kvarley> CounterStrike: Global Offensive
<MartijnVdS> I hope the current set of games will run on Haswell
<MartijnVdS> (so buying a new CPU next month will be worth it ;)))
<brobostigon> john paul jones, is drumming with seasick steve on jools holland later, cool
<brobostigon> not drumming, scrub that.
<MartijnVdS> just.. slacking around then? :)
<brobostigon> lol :)
<brobostigon> i had john bonham's son, jason bonham in my mind.
<shauno> john paul jones is an odd name, I know it from US independence era
<MartijnVdS> shauno: when you were just a lad? ;)
<shauno> lol.  actually, that's close to the truth.  I know most my US history from Sid Meyer's Civilization
<shauno> no, Colonization
<MartijnVdS> hah, not Colonization?
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<shauno> else I wouldn't have prefixed with his name, because everyone remembers civ
<MartijnVdS> I still have colonization on cd-rom here somewhere
<shauno> I have it on three 770k floppies :/
<dwatkins> civ was great
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I think that's what's on the CD.. floppy images or similar
<MartijnVdS> shauno: + an installer
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: colonization kind of glossed over slavery a little bit
 * brobostigon waves prince of persia floppies around.
<MartijnVdS> (it didn't mention it at all)
<shauno> iirc the dos version you could mush the floppies together just by putting the contents in the same folder
<MartijnVdS> ooh! I still have my dosbox dir with it installed!
<MartijnVdS> *starts*
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> I have the amiga version, which is vastly superior, but I can't remember why anymore
<diddledan> ergh, why am I playing with kernel stuff?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "diddling with the kernel"
<diddledan> I need to figure out where it's searching for war.h when compiling for mips in the openwrt tree because.. it says it can't find it when clearly it's blind
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: which branch of openwrt, and which target?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: use "make V=99" for verbosity .. it should show compiler output, which should help a lot
<diddledan> aah, well that's the thing - it's a custom target for mikrotik's "metarouter" which I have bastardised an old patch for linux-2.6.smth onto linux-3.7
<MartijnVdS> also, which package
<diddledan> as for branch
<MartijnVdS> still, V=99 should do things
<diddledan> looks like it's trunk from a couple weeks ago
<diddledan> and package - it's linux itself
<diddledan> the kernel
<MartijnVdS> cool :)
<diddledan> looks like the make v=99 doesn't help for the kernel compile
<MartijnVdS> capital V
<diddledan> yeah, that too :-p
<diddledan> openwrt have their own makefile layer on top of the kernel makefiles
<MartijnVdS> I know.. but usually this works
<diddledan> let me pastebin the output
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5629956/
<diddledan> I'm not sure why it asks me for the system type every time, but that's bearable
<MartijnVdS> wow.. in bounds.s
<MartijnVdS> that's asm
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what happens if you move the stuff in build_dir aside, and restart the entire compile?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it should rebuild the toolchain
<diddledan> exactly the same error
<MartijnVdS> that's quick
<diddledan> I thought so too
<MartijnVdS> rebuilding the toolchain (gcc etc.) should take a while..
<diddledan> it can't have rebuild the toolchain in that time
<MartijnVdS> maybe that's in staging_dir/
<diddledan> aah, yes, there's a toolchain in staging_dir
<diddledan> I'll blow away both for now and rerun from scratch
<diddledan> the kernel is very much a dark art for me
<diddledan> I know nussing
<diddledan> </bad italian>
<diddledan> I think the metarouter patch that mikrotik produced is from kamikaze?!
<MartijnVdS> that's _old_
<diddledan> hence it's need to be updated
<MartijnVdS> what's metarouter anyway?
<diddledan> nobody still have packages for it
<diddledan> metarouter is a proprietary virtualisation that runs on mikrotik's routeros
<diddledan> I say proprietary - the kernel is gpl so they might have published their sources?
<MartijnVdS> it's a "special" one then?
<diddledan> their website is evil
<diddledan> yeah
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. routeros itself seems OK though
<diddledan> it doesn't conform to the qemu-style I don't believe
<diddledan> i.e. kvm and xen
<diddledan> looks like the company were gpl violators in 2009
<diddledan> I can't find much more recent about gpl vs mikrotik tho
<diddledan> compile is still running
<MartijnVdS> yeah it's recompiling the whole toolchain (gcc, etc.)
<diddledan> random: why do I feel the need for at least three monitors? surely my dual head system should be enough, right?!
<diddledan> I need MOAR
<diddledan> I totally want three 24inchers
<diddledan> I totally can't afford to tho
<diddledan> and I totally sound chav by using "totally" in this manner
<diddledan> ho hum
<MartijnVdS> like, totally
<diddledan> init guv
<MartijnVdS> u wot m8
<diddledan> sorry, sysvinit :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-wot-m8 (maybe not safe for anyone)
<DJones> Aww, Jeff Hanneman has passed away
<diddledan> ok, it got to the end of the compile - same error as before
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I don't know then, sorry
<MartijnVdS> other than "google it"
<diddledan> /home/dllewellyn/openwrt-trunk/build_dir/target-mips_uClibc-0.9.33.2/linux-mr-mips/linux-3.7/arch/mips/include/asm/war.h:12:17: fatal error: war.h: No such file or directory
<diddledan> the first war.h exists
<diddledan> the second is referenced by an #include <war.h> line
<diddledan> inside the first
<MartijnVdS> that's how it should work
<MartijnVdS> but the -I should be set properly
<diddledan> I can't seem to get it to print the commandline it uses at all using V=99
<diddledan> there's a line in arch/mips/Makefile that says:
<diddledan> cflags-$(CONFIG_METAROUTER) += -I$(srctree)/arch/mips/include/asm/mach-metarouter
<MartijnVdS> does that dir exist?
<diddledan> yes, and there's a war.h in there
<diddledan> I think the patch didn't apply cleanly
<diddledan> it looks like the metarouter bits are in the wrong place in that makefile
<diddledan> maybe not, I'm not good at reading makefiles
<czajkowski> Laney: is there an ubuntu design mailing list ?
<Laney> czajkowski: there's a unity-design one on launchpad
<Laney> that's all i know about
<czajkowski> we foud mpt
<czajkowski> all is good
<Laney> so is there one?
<diddledan> ok, I've got make outputting verbosely now
<diddledan> it looks to NOT be including the extra -I argument for the war.h directory
<diddledan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630318/
<diddledan> eww @ no linewrapping
<AlanBell> pro tip http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630318/plain/
<AlanBell> (with launchpad login for some reason)
<Laney> yeah ubuntu pastebin misfeature
<mungbean> evening
<diddledan> omg it's building!!!
<diddledan> and another failure
<diddledan> this time symtab.h is missing
<diddledan> find says it's at ./security/selinux/ss/symtab.h
<diddledan> no mention of selinux at all in my .config
<mungbean> wow i never have build iissues anymore
<mungbean> since 21st century
<diddledan> yeah, I'm playing with openwrt
<diddledan> trying to build it on an unsupported platform
<diddledan> for**
<diddledan> using a patch that's like 5 years out of date
<diddledan> the patch is against kernel 2.6.31.10 - the latest in openwrt's trunk is 3.7
<shauno> some things never change .. you really don't like yourself, do you :p
<diddledan> shauno, just because I'm playing with Gentoo, also :-p
<diddledan> Gentoo's work, however, this is personal
<shauno> friday night and I'm trying to convert a pre-built vmware appliance to something kvm can boot.  so self-flagellation all 'round I guess
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> yes, we all suck
<diddledan> obviously I'm not quite as sucky as everyone else
<mungbean> watching another manlab as i cant move off sofa
<diddledan> mostly becauase I'm me
<diddledan> google's never heard of symtab.h
<diddledan> I seem to be making progress
<mungbean> guys: https://github.com/Athou/commafeed
<diddledan> OMG, THE KERNEL COMPILED!!!
<diddledan> I amaze myself at my own awesomeness
<mungbean> \p/
<diddledan> I'm so glad doctors aren't like IRC clients.. having an operation time out when you're the patient doesn't sound fun
 * mgdm was writing C but didn't manage to make it segfault
<mgdm> I call that a  win
<diddledan> mgdm, that's impressive
<diddledan> writing C that compiles is good. writing C that compiles AND doesn't segfault is amazing
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> also, it actually works
 * diddledan bows before God
 * AlanBell is compiling c++ stuffs
<diddledan> erm.. s/God/mgdm/
<mgdm> heheh
<AlanBell> woot it built and installs and runs
<AlanBell> just added some extra logging to wvdial, hardly rocket science, but it all worked first time
<shauno> holy blast from the past batman
<diddledan> shauno, what's in the vmware image you're trying to run?
<shauno> in-house 'appliance'
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> centos 6.3 underlying though
<diddledan> it should be as simple as running it through qemu-img then?
<diddledan> although, latter kvm - such as in 13.04 as far as I've tested support booting directly from vmdks
<shauno> sort of.  that's got me bootable.  playing nice with openstack/ec2 requires a few more refinements
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> openstack is evil
<diddledan> great when it's running, but getting it there is a horror film
<shauno> I've got it going as far as I need it, for now  (I need to investigate Quantum later though, because I need more tricks on the network front)
<shauno> crash course in yum, I haven't used anything redhat based since RH5.2
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> my knowledge of yum extends to `yum search foo` and `yum install foo`
<diddledan> oh and `yum update`
<shauno> heh, pretty much.  except it's not finding any repos
<diddledan> gah
<diddledan> /etc/yum.d?
<diddledan> there should be a repo.conf or similar name
<diddledan> maybe repos.conf?
<diddledan> or reponame.repo?
<shauno> yeah, I'm getting there :)  I found some suspicious looking enabled=0 lines in the entries in /etc/yum.repos.d/
<mungbean> you can also enable one-yime
<diddledan> new error - much further in the compile tho - kernel related again: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5630639/
<mungbean> yum --enablerepo=extras install gedit
<diddledan> line 5 is the actual error
<mungbean> yum provides is useful
<mungbean> diddledan: you are goinf down a rabbithole od doom
<mungbean> farage looks like a simpsons cgaracter
<diddledan> just remembered to put the washing on - hopefully my neighbours won't mind the spin cycle at 1am
<shauno> oh yes.  this is the rpm I know and love from 1997.        libyaml-0.so.2()(64bit) is needed by PyYAML-3.10-3.el6.x86_64
<diddledan> who was first with packages, redhat or debian?
<diddledan> that weren't just tarballs, I mean
<diddledan> 'cos slackware would beat everyone if we were counting those
<diddledan> afaik slack is the oldest still running distro available
<shauno> ohhhh.  fantastic.  they have yaml for i686 but not x86_64
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> how did they compile pyYAML then?!
<shauno> pretty sure I'm doing something wrong here
<shauno> besides keep typing rm -i instead of rpm -i
<mungbean> do yum localinstall
<mungbean> since it piulls in deps
<shauno> it's not finding most these packages so far, which is why I've been trying to add them manually
<shauno> it's easy enough just to faceplant it a few times, I'll be starting over once I've figured out what I need where
<shauno> the first run is to get it working, the second is to add a little grace to the proceedings so I don't grow the qcow image any more than I need to
<redtape> shauno: still hammering ?
<shauno> eh.  I'll keep pushing the gas as long as you keep screaming
<redtape> yep, it's pretty late .. I have to set up a new netbook tomorrow ..
<diddledan> that's what a mustachiod bloke said in the 40s
<shauno> :(
<shauno> pushing the petrol just doesn't seem to work.
<redtape> any-howser ...
<diddledan> accelerator?
<redtape> I'm deep in bootstrap territory .. anyone used it before ?
<diddledan> I need to do some of that, too
<shauno> the webby stuff?
<redtape> not sure 'boutthat .. not without the monster jar of coffe that keeps seducing me .. saw this vidz , but really want to get to know the program 'bootstrap' more  | OT | :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKwWPQ1Orzs :: BTWay.
<redtape> **about that  .
<redtape> shauno: See the vidz ? Prob.ly best for Caturday-afternoon thou .
<shauno> I can't tell if it's the hour, but I'm oddly distracted by trying to figure out if that 'tache+glasses combo is a $2 disguise set :/
<diddledan> spin cycle just kicked in
<diddledan> sorry people next-door :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-04
<shauno> hm, cloud-init isn't doing its magic.  I wonder if it's bedtime yet
<redtape> shauno. I seem to spend half my time informing yanks that their youtube videos dont work with /that/ type-a music license on it , over here .  [!! gruff gruff]
<shauno> my biggest gripe with youtube is that I get adverts in french.  even when I'm logged in
<redtape> shauno: My biggest problem is a flirting lance every month of videos from 'nixie pixel'. who ccould be in an old ipod advert or perhaps one of these : http://bit.ly/17CrxKA
<redtape> OT | OK so the question of the night is : If I were to pimp this [ http://bit.ly/18j1Y2L ] out (replacing & upgrading all components incl. 3d printed keyboard etc) with everything modern - except keeping the clam-shell. What components would you use (that fit obviously) to get this up-to , say, a dell-netbook standard ? & don't just say that's comparing apple with i-oranges, because that's not the point.
<redtape> OK, goodluck, good-night, and happy spiral dreams !
<diddledan> http://www.firstmenonthemoon.com/
<diddledan> I'll just leave that there
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> I have successfully posted a care package to a friend for her birthday, so I can sit back and relax and potter around fixing things at home for the rest of the day now.
<dwatkins> One day, there will be a Star Wars game for Ubuntu that they can put on offer for May the Fourth.
<SuperMatt> so... whose up for a game of l4d2?
<dwatkins> yeah, SuperMatt
 * dwatkins is 'glymph' on Steam
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: steam://friends/joinchat/103582791434248589 <- click that
<dwatkins> my IRC session is on another machine and it doesn't seem to work in the browser on Win8
<SuperMatt> oh right
<dwatkins> silly windows
 * dwatkins reboots as he's lost his mouse on the first display having alt-tabbed out of the game
<SuperMatt> does your picture have a mullet?
<dwatkins> no, it's the blue one from Bubble Bobble
<SuperMatt> invite sent
<dwatkins> ta, now grub has decided to ruin my day...
<SuperMatt> lollers
<dwatkins> there we go, restarting
<SuperMatt> sweet
<dwatkins> hooray for not having to use windows
<SuperMatt> :)
<SuperMatt> I should have said that earlier
<dwatkins> no worries, today I learned something awesome :D
<dwatkins> Steam appears to be entirely 32-bit.
<SuperMatt> yuppers
<dwatkins> Hopefully this will be fine, it's busy installing stuff now, updating.
<SuperMatt> it will be :)
<SuperMatt> so, you've not upgraded to raring?
<dwatkins> not yet, is it relatively painless?
<SuperMatt> yus
<SuperMatt> it's the most painless release yet
<SuperMatt> I might move my laptop over to saucy
<dwatkins> cool, will pencil that in for tomorrow morning
<dwatkins> if the wifi driver worked booting from USB, I'd put Ubuntu on my Macbook Pro, I assume there's some kind of licensing thing there.
<dwatkins> heh, Steam's progress windows change theme every time
<dwatkins> <Doc Brown>Eighteen Gigabytes! </Doc Brown>
<dwatkins> <Doc Brown>Eighteen Gigabytes?!</Doc Brown>
<SuperMatt> is that how big it is?
<dwatkins> I appear to be required to wait between 6 and 10 hours to download the beta of l4d2, yes.
<SuperMatt> cripes, yeah it is
<SuperMatt> dang
<dwatkins> Ah, it's decreasing as it finds more peers to download from. 2 hours now.
<SuperMatt> right, new plan for my laptop, 5 partitions: raring 32 (for work vpn purposes), saucy 64, arch, magia and finally a partition for any os that I wanna test
<dwatkins> you must reboot a lot ;)
<SuperMatt> my laptop, yes, because it's not used for anything because messing around
<dwatkins> aha cool, I have a netbook that I use for that sort of thing
<SuperMatt> my desktop is the one machine that I don't upgrade until release
<dwatkins> I tend to mostly use my desktop for gaming, so it doesn't make a gigantic difference what it's running.
<dwatkins> It's neat that I can throw a text file at Festival and have it read it out whilst I do other stuff.
<SuperMatt> that's cool
<dwatkins> http://www.xenocafe.com/tutorials/php/festival_text_to_speech/ for the curious (I didn't follow this, but it might be all you need)
<dwatkins> Not sure how you select voices, I changed the config file.
<Nafallo> dwatkins: I tried that with an IRClog back in 2005. didn't work very well ;-)
<Nafallo> it kept saying < > :-P
<dwatkins> haha, yeah - it doesn't do too well with things like that - I'm listening to it read out the history of usenet, and it keeps saying the section numbers like they're part of a sentence.
<dwatkins> for the curious: http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ch106.x10
<popey> yayMorning!
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: the game failed to start, so I'm trying an upgrade to Raring.
<dwatkins> ello popey
<dwatkins> I trust all goes well.
<popey> ya
<popey> \o/ home
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<dwatkins> Welcome back to the land of semi-skimmed milk and slightly concerned beekepers.
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: D:
<popey> also, no buffalo wings
<popey> i had buffalo wings almost every day while out there
<MartijnVdS> flying buffalo?
 * dwatkins notes that xscreensaver has been removed
<dwatkins> How will I get my GLMatrix now? :'(
<popey> !info xscreensaver
<lubotu3> xscreensaver (source: xscreensaver): Automatic screensaver for X. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.15-2ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 261 kB, installed size 852 kB
<popey> that bot probably should be updated to raring
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/256410
<ali1234> unity screen corruption
<SuperMatt> now x-screensaver has been removed, does that mean that a more thematically consistant unlock screen can be made?
<ali1234> raring seems to be the worst version yet
<ali1234> SuperMatt: no, because that was never xscreensaver in the first place
<SuperMatt> I couldn't disagree more
<brobostigon> new dr who tonight, bbc1 6.30pm, :)
<SuperMatt> ali1234: sure, but I think that x-screensaver was then calling a different library for unlocking
<SuperMatt> or something
<dwatkins> from what I understood, the unlock screen was simple for security reasons
<dwatkins> I'm not bothered about the password entry box, I just want to have GLMatrix as my screensaver :D
<ali1234> also, in what sense has xscreensaver been removed? it is still in the repositories like always
<ali1234> it hasn't been installed by default since about 2007
<dwatkins> oh, I got the impression from the upgrade that it was going to be removed from my system
<ali1234> probably, upgrading often does weird things
<dwatkins> fair enough, I'll have a look assuming the upgrade completes ok second time around
<ali1234> bug 1176348
<lubotu3> bug 1176348 in unity (Ubuntu) "title bar pop up menus corrupt display" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1176348
<ali1234> may or may not be related to 1174054
<popey> surely xscreensaver has been unmaintained upstream for _years_ ? http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=xscreensaver
<dwatkins> I'll screenshot any further messages about it.
<dwatkins> Perhaps because the default is to use gnome-screensaver, it removes xscreensaver when upgrading.
<dwatkins> discussed in bug 775369
<lubotu3> bug 775369 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Update manager removes xscreensaver and replaces with gnome-screensaver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775369
<ali1234> 5.2104-Feb-2013 - so unless by upstream you mean "debian"
<popey> i thought it was abandoned upstream (not debian). maybe not.
<popey> http://ftp-master.metadata.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xscreensaver/unstable_changelog
<popey> doesn't look heavily maintained
<MartijnVdS> jwz moved on to mac stuff, didn't he?
<popey> yes, and the DNA Lounge
<dwatkins> a 24/7 pizza place, nice
<dwatkins> (next door to the DNA Lounge)
<MartijnVdS> L4D2 Beta for Linux!
<MartijnVdS> on Steam
<MartijnVdS> "Preparing Left 4 Dead 2 Beta files for install..."
<dwatkins> It's a bit of a big download.
<MartijnVdS> only 11.5GB
<MartijnVdS> "Time remaining: 25 minutes"
<MartijnVdS> \o/ fibre
<SuperMatt> 18... it's 18 gig
<MartijnVdS> oh.. it's 11 if you have the other HL2 engine stuff installed
<SuperMatt> ah right
<SuperMatt> makes sense
<MartijnVdS> "5.3 MB/s current rate"
<MartijnVdS> 5.9
<MartijnVdS> 6.1
<SuperMatt> I'm so jealous
<MartijnVdS> 6.3
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: 100/100 fibre, with a gbit media converter (so I can upgrade to 500/500 or 1000/1000 when $ISP allows it)
<SuperMatt> :'(
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: come to the Netherlands, most homes will have this kind of connectivity by 2015
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: stating in smaller towns, then later the bigger cities
<ali1234> how do i hide users from the login screen?
<SuperMatt> in /etc/lightdm/users.conf or something
<ali1234> no, that is broken
<ali1234> you have to give them uid < 1000
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> that sucks
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<SuperMatt> I had no idea
<ali1234> then they are "system" accounts
<ali1234> which is what i actually wanted anyway
<MartijnVdS> how hard can it be to have tests that make sure things like this don't break?
<ali1234> it never "broke"
<ali1234> it's never worked
<MartijnVdS> :(
<ali1234> i'm now back on gnome-fallback because of the screen corruption and blank windows in unity
<brobostigon> 3 minute warning, to new dr who, bbc1.
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> I'm already seated and waiting
<brobostigon> :) beer in hand.
<SuperMatt> I'm off alcohol at the moment
 * dwatkins begins streaming
<redtape> Why is doing group calls on skype such a clusterfaq every Weekend ?
<zleap> dunno,  i take it you mean it isn't working properly
<SuperMatt> I do so love that sontaran
<dwatkins> his misunderstandings are the best
<shrik> hello all
<SuperMatt> hello
<Myrtti> redtape: "use Google Hangouts"
<brobostigon> no spoilers chaps and gals, for those that have to record and not watch now.
<SuperMatt> ok, we shan't
<SuperMatt> but that thing with the chiken was awesome
<Myrtti> yeah, I'm watching ice hockey *now* (because it's delayed 30mins on youtube already) and Dr. Who later
<SuperMatt> dang, I'm now going to have to watch it later to >.<
<SuperMatt> my mum's partner has switched the over to golf, and tbh, I wasn't fully paying attention :/
<brobostigon> oh dear :(
<penguin42> hmm interesting - 1st time I plugged in the Nook it ID'd as an OMAP, only now after a first boot/register is it showing up as a Nook
<SuperMatt> nm, I'll just download an HD copy tomorrow and watch it on monday
<brobostigon> get_iplayer :)
<SuperMatt> eztv.it works well for me
 * popey grabbed it via get_iplayer last week and watched it on the plane on the way back today
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> haha, I knew that kid was going to be called that
<dwatkins> something about the way he spoke
<popey> no spoilers!
<dwatkins> of course, it was a great episode though.
<brobostigon> it was good, yes.
<meet> I am using ubuntu gnome 13.04. I upgraded the gnome 3.6 to 3.8. But many of the features i listed on the gnome site are missing. for example search settings or clock or even classic mode. How do I get those?
<brobostigon> meet: ok, between 3.6 and 3.8 fall back mode was removed, and uses gnome extensions to emulate something more traditional.
<meet> brobostigon: but the privacy or search settings and the clock app? those are also not there
<brobostigon> meet: i havemt tried 3.8 yet, so cant be of much help, sorry.
<meet> ok..thanks
<brobostigon> anyways i run gnome in full mode, not fallback etc, so those things are alittle difefrent.
<meet> brobostigon: ya i also don't want the fallback mode. i was just saying that these features are missing
<brobostigon> meet: so you dont have clock and date in top-centre? and when you press it, calendar doesnt appear?
<brobostigon> and or*
<meet> some features are there. clock and date are there. In 3.8 they have got something clocked clock app. or the privacy and search settings are provided for what is searched in the overview search.
<brobostigon> clocked clock app?
<meet> sorry.. *called clock app
<brobostigon> meet: what happens if you reinstall gnome-shell and wipe it settings, does it go back to normal?
<brobostigon> its*
<meet> did not try that. I mean I am using ubuntu gnome so don't know what will happen if i remove gnome-shell itself
<brobostigon> i dont see why it shouldnt be a problem, but some inside the upgrade might have screwed the settings, i am wondering what will happen, if you take it back to standard.
<meet> so do you mean i remove 3.8 and downgrade to 3.6?
<brobostigon> as long as for example, you remove gdm3 then reboot without a login manager.
<brobostigon> meet: no, just reinstall 3.8 and wipe its settings on remove.
<brobostigon> meet: so it starts as standard with standard settings.
<meet> but if i do apt-get install gnome-shell it says nothing to install or upgrade
<brobostigon> because, that is trying to install something that is already there, and a version that is already there.
<brobostigon> apt-get purge - then apt-get install
<brobostigon> meet: it works here, but please ask other for advice, it can go wrong.
<meet> brobostigon: so at the end of purge.. will i have to restart?
<brobostigon> meet: dont, as it might remove gdm3, and that will mean if it might throw you into cli on reboot, insted of gui login.
<meet> ok.. and after removing do i add the same ppa?
<meet> and same packages?
<brobostigon> meet: apt-get install gnome-shell. :)
<meet> ok..
<brobostigon> meet: but pleaee hang out, and ask other for their opinion, i have managed to break it several times in many ways.
<stevepdp> hey folks
<penguin42> hmph raring's file's what kernel 2.6.32 at least; a bit new to stuff onto a random ARM device, wheezy's armhf is happy with 2.6.26
#ubuntu-uk 2013-05-05
<shauno> what on earth are they doing releasing debian at 3am.  how am I meant to drink to that?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you can't drink at 3am?
<SuperMatt> morning
<dwatkins> wotcher
<SuperMatt> how do?
<dwatkins> good, ta - currently re-encoding Silent Running for later viewing
<dwatkins> how's tricks?
<SuperMatt> all good
<SuperMatt> did a run this morning, I'm getting faster :D
<dwatkins> I need to collect my bike so I can start cycling to work again.
<SuperMatt> I might have to start running before work, because it's really helping me lose weight
<dwatkins> I changed my diet, that made a huge difference.
<dwatkins> Cycling helped, too, of course.
<SuperMatt> yeah, I've changed my diet too
<SuperMatt> basically, I've reduced a lot of what I eat
<dwatkins> I switched to keto, seems to do the trick.
<SuperMatt> keto?
<dwatkins> no sugars or carbs
<dwatkins> essentially, I've replaced chips/rice/bread with salad
<SuperMatt> aha
<dwatkins> I was quite surprised how well it worked, and I don't feel hungry all the time, either.
<SuperMatt> well my plan was to ditch the bread for sure
<SuperMatt> didn't think about ditching rice :/
<dwatkins> There's sugar and carbs in so many things, it's not easy to know what to eat.
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neris-Indias-Idiot-Proof-Diet-Twig/dp/0141027436/ is appaently quite good, I've just been making it up as I go along, but will eventually get around to reading this.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: The "start running 7-10km 3-4 times/week" diet worked best for me ;)
<dwatkins> They seem to have brought back the l4d1 characters for the Ubuntu beta of l4d2.
<directhex> but bread is delicious and so is rice
<directhex> and pasta
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (started out with 1-2km ;))
<directhex> and pots of pure gluten
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I suspect a lot of my 15 kg weight loss was due to suddenly cycling 10 miles a day ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah that tends to help :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> wotcher
<brobostigon> ?
<dwatkins> hello in Reading-speak
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> some of my cousins live there.
<dwatkins> it's not so bad, the architecture's a bit dull compared to Edinburgh ;)
<brobostigon> true enough.
<brobostigon> any ideas for an android mmo, i am bored.
<neuro> One where all Samsung phones get beaten to a pulp, letting other manufacturers build "proper" Android devices?
<neuro> "You have smited 17 Samsung engineers, and replaced the ROMs on 2915 Samsung devices!  Level up!"
<neuro> actually, quick question, guys:
<neuro> can anyone remember the name of the package that lets you create a virtual connection to another machine beside you to "extend" your keyboard and mouse influence?
<neuro> so your keyboard can control the machine in front of you and the machine to your right or whatever?
<neuro> it's completely eluding me
<neuro> since it's years since i've used it
<neuro> it's not duplicity, it's not ubiquity, but it's something like that
<neuro> never mind
<neuro> found it
<neuro> Synergy
<neuro> :)
<directhex> neuro, synergy
<directhex> oh, wait, you foudn it
<neuro> :)
<neuro> thanks anyway!
<neuro> ah crap, trackpad batteries nearly dead :(
<neuro> hmm brand new batteries ... "Trackpad battery level: 83%" ugh.
<neuro> oh, netsplit
<neuro> thought my broadband had borked
<MartijnVdS> b0rkband
<popey> Good moaning.
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<SuperMatt> word.
<SuperMatt> hardly morning though, popey
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: he's probably a bit lagged
<SuperMatt> yes, I guess you're right
<MartijnVdS> http://teespring.com/negativefeedback
<dwatkins> I'm still not sure if Dave from EEVblog was right about his Flux Capacitor t-shirt or if he shoudn't have sold it [for money].
<dwatkins> s/money/profit/
 * penguin42 wishes debootstrap would install apt by default in the 1st stage
<penguin42> ah, so much better - bash, sanity
<Darael> I've had an issue - for a while, now - that appears to be triggered by the Programmer Dvorak keyboard layout.  I'm pretty sure it's some kind of bug, and it's been present in at least the last four releases.  Does anyone know what the best package to file a bug with is?
<Darael> (Yes, I'm "anyone"-ing.  Sorry.)
<popey> Darael: depends where the bug manifests itself
<popey> Darael: what happens?
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diddledan> o/
<MartijnVdS> another week, and I'll be on your side of the water :)
<popey> yo
 * penguin42 wonders if there are any SDL e-reader things for e-readers - touchscreen etc
<dwatkins> There's apparently nupdf, which miht go some way to achieve what you're after, penguin42 - SDL PDF reading.
<penguin42> ooh thanks - the android thing on this nook is crap
<dwatkins> no idea if it'll cmopile etc. but I'm sure it'll be fun finding out.
<penguin42> anything will compile with a large enough hammer
<diddledan> for various definitions of compile
<penguin42> nod
<diddledan> compilation is like schroedinger's cat
<penguin42> you only know if it worked when you try and run it?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> until you run it it's both correct and bad at the same time
<diddledan> and neither too
<diddledan> my sister in law can't get her head around the concept - she just complains it's cruel on the cat
<penguin42> well it might be, it might not
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> diddledan: My experience is that compilers can maintain the wave function past running; especially on multithreads
<diddledan> yeah, I can appreciate that
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Schroedinger's Compiler?
<diddledan> I've got an idea for an irc-to-jabber-and-back-again daemon which allows for full interaction between irc users and jabber MUC users with neither side necessarily being aware that the other exists (i.e. NOT an XMPP "transport", and independant of any specific implementation of IRC/XMPP servers). My question relates to people's opinion of what a suitable language would be to write it in which allows for multithreading/processin
<diddledan> g for better scalability than single-threaded implementation
<MartijnVdS> Well, that's python out ;)
<MartijnVdS> one of the Jabber daemons is written in erlang
<diddledan> yeah, that's ejabberd
<MartijnVdS> hence the 'e' ;)
<diddledan> I was thinking about going that route, but I know nothing about erlang
<MartijnVdS> yeah I know the problem
<MartijnVdS> you could start with Python or Perl (yes, it does threads now)
<penguin42> diddledan: C
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: C + threads = lots of thinking about threads
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and not much thinking about code
<diddledan> penguin42, I figured that might be the case
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Shrug
<penguin42> diddledan: C+pthreads in particular
<MartijnVdS> Perl's threading has grown up in recent years
<MartijnVdS> and speed isn't bad
<redtape> OT | Anyone still trying to use the Auction sites today ((??)) .. I is Still tryin' to find a UK version of these .. that elusive bit of metal grill http://bit.ly/15izrvm :: Perhaps I should have given bettr instructions for you to XD my ass?
<^Snake^> Looking for info on how long Terminal should take to partition a drive ?
<diddledan> partitioning is very quick. putting filesystems on the resulting partitions will be slower and resizing/moving existing filesystems will take forever and a day depending on how big they were beforehand
<diddledan> but Terminal doesn't do any of that itself.
<^Snake^> what I have, an old 160Gb HDD with a 10Gb hidden Recovery partition, the Recovery partition is what I am trying to copy over to a new 500Gb HDD
<^Snake^> Terminal seemed to cause the hard drive light to go crazy for 5 mins, now it's quiet, rarely lighting up
<^Snake^> From reading sites, terminal shows as busy, the "ubuntu@ubuntu" has not displayed yet, showing it's finished
<^Snake^> that was about an hour or so ago
<^Snake^> the partition is 10Gb, but only has about 6.8Gb in use, is there any way to find out how much has been copied, or how long is left?
<diddledan> a bit of background on Terminal - that is an application which runs an interface for a "shell". the "shell" (bash usually) is an interface to running programs, but doesn't do anything itself. The command that you entered into bash is what is doing the work, not bash nor Terminal. So, what was the first word of the command you typed, as that is the program doing the work?
<^Snake^> the line I typed into Terminal "dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sda1 bs=1M"
<penguin42> ^Snake^: I'd expect that to take a reasonable amount of time
<^Snake^> ok, am I looking at 2, 3, 4 or more hours, it's at least an hour or so ago it started?
<diddledan> ok, so you're using the "dd" program to copy from the first partition on disk 2 to the first partition on disk 1. You can get a readout of how much data it's copied by opening a new termianl and running the command "killall -USR1 dd"
<penguin42> ^Snake^: How big did you say the disks were?
<penguin42> ^Snake^: I'd expect it to be able to do at least 100GB/hour on a modern machine
<diddledan> be very careful with that command tho, because without the -USR1 or with something other than -USR1 it will stop the dd program in it's tracks
<diddledan> so you'll have to start it again
<^Snake^> New HDD 500Gb, old HDD 160Gb, the partition is 10Gb, but only uses approx 6.8Gb of data
<penguin42> yeh I'd expect that to be just a few minutes for a 10GB partition
<^Snake^> when I click the X, Terminal says there is still a process running, & from websites, it says when it's done, the prompt should read as "ubuntu@ubuntu:~$"
<^Snake^> so far, it's just a flashing cursor
<^Snake^> ok, opened another Terminal, typed in the command @diddledan said, "Operation not permitted"
<diddledan> yeah, you might need to run it with sudo
<diddledan> if you ran dd through sudo then you will
<diddledan> in which case it's `sudo killall -USR1 dd`
<^Snake^> if I run it with "sudo" I get no response, just a new line, if I use it without sudo, I get the "Operation not permitted. dd: no process found"
<diddledan> the output will be on the window where you're running dd
<^Snake^> no change in original Terrminal, or the new one
<diddledan> sounds like dd has hung then
<^Snake^> how to fix it?
<^Snake^> should I click the X on the original terminal window, then ok to the warning about killing the active process?
<diddledan> try forcing dd to close by going to the terminal where it's running and pressing ctrl+c together - if it quits it should tell you how far it got, and if it doesn't quit you know something went wonky
<^Snake^> if I CTRL + C, all it does is "^C"
<diddledan> ok, that indicates that dd got stuck and can't quit on it's own
<diddledan> we can force it to die painfully by running in the other terminal the command `sudo killall -9 dd`
<^Snake^> will that damage the old or new hard drive?
<diddledan> it won't affect the /dev/sdb1 (where you're copying from) but it may leave /dev/sda1 (where you're copying TO) with an incomplete image of the source partition
<penguin42> diddledan: Although if it's a dd that's stuck it's probably stuck on IO and might not die
<diddledan> penguin42, didn't think of that
<^Snake^> I should be able to delete the partition if that is the case, without any problems?
<diddledan> ^Snake^, you can delete the partition, yes, but that doesn't delete any data off the disc, so there isn't really any need to do so unless you're wanting to use the space for something different
<diddledan> e.g. a differently sized partition
<^Snake^> ok, killed the process, started up gparted, the partition is there, shows as 10Gb, but not used or unused, & flagged as possibly no file system
<diddledan> try running `sudo fsck /dev/sda1` in a terminal and see what it says
<diddledan> o_O penguin42 what happened to the ntfs-utils (or was it -tools?) package which supplied fsck.ntfs?!
<^Snake^> Superblock invalid, bad magic number in super-block
<penguin42> diddledan: I don't know - never done ntfs stuff
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> ok, superblock invalid suggests that the copy didn't complete before it got stuck
<penguin42> that suggests it failed early - superblock is normally fairly early
<diddledan> indeed
<^Snake^> in Windows Vista / Computer Management, it showed the partitions as C & D Drive partions as NTFS, but the Recovery partion (1 = Recovery, 2 = C, 3 = D) as EISA Configuration
<^Snake^> that is from the old hard drive
<diddledan> that's normal
<diddledan> probably type 12
<diddledan> partition type 12 I mean
<diddledan> it's probably still ntfs
<^Snake^> I'm really new to using Linux, the codes supplied on 1 website wouldn't work, so instead of copying all the partitions, I just created a single 10Gb partition, then used Terminal to transfer the data
<^Snake^> is that a valid way to do it, or should I use some other method.
<^Snake^> the website was refering to using the same size hdd for the old & new, but mine are way differernt in size
<diddledan> my preferred way to ensure that you get everything would be to boot from the ubuntu install disc and run the dd with the old disc and new disc without any 1/2/3.. suffixes so that you copy the whole disc (it doesn't matter that they're different in size as long as you're copying from the smaller to the bigger). then once that's done I'd shut down and remove the old disc and then run the ubuntu installer to install ubuntu onto
<diddledan> some of the unoccupied space (or run gparted to mess about with partition resizing first)
<^Snake^> the whole reason for the transfer, the old drive spectacularly crashed last weekend, could not access windows, had to reinstall, install failed, bought new drive
<diddledan> aha, that sounds suspiciously like you'll not be able to get anything off it then
<^Snake^> I have the old drive in an external caddy, transfering data of 3rd partition (D Drive) is working perfectly
<^Snake^> "...data of 3rd..." is "OFF 3rd partition"
<n1md4> hi.  just did a do-release-upgrade.  it seemed to work but i ran out of disk space whilst updating initrd. I freed some space, and ran an upgrade, and rebooted.  now I get this message on boot http://pastie.org/pastes/7805603/text
<diddledan> ensure you get all your data off the data partition before you do anything else so you know you've got everything sentimental
<^Snake^> I know the "C" partition is not installable, but it looks like it can read & write to, definately the same with "D"
<^Snake^> I will be removing the last of my personal data later, is there a utility to test if the hidden (Recovery) partition is also damaged?
<diddledan> once you've got all your photos etc safe you can try resurrecting windows again by copying the recovery partition in the same way you tried already - a nice way of watching it's progress and determining if it's hung is to run in a second terminal the command `watch sudo killall -USR1` which will run the sudo killall every 2 seconds so your dd command should output it's progress every 2 seconds in unison
<diddledan> if you had a windows cd/dvd you might be able to get into a recovery console to run chkdsk on the recovery partition
<diddledan> I'm thinking that you're missing the required package to check the data in linux/ubuntu (if you have it there will be a program called /sbin/fsck.ntfs which you could run - e.g. `sudo fsck.ntfs /dev/sdb1`)
<^Snake^> I have the Recovery Console in the Hidden Partition, as well as on DVD, but it's a Samsung Recovery Solution Disc, it only gives you 2 options, install full, or install basic windows files.
<diddledan> if you've got a dvd which will reinstall windows then I would contend that it is a duplicate of what's in the recovery partition with nothing extra in the latter so you can probably ignore the recovery partition entirely and not bother copying it
<^Snake^> "/sbin/fsck.nfs"
<^Snake^> the DVD doesn't install the same way as the Recovery Console on the HDD
<diddledan> typical :-/
<diddledan> that sucks
<^Snake^> using the hdd version, I can make my own backup as well, the default won't even work, from the CD/DVD, unless the hidden partition is on the drive
<^Snake^> what is the code`sudo fsck.ntfs /dev/sdb1` to be used for
<^Snake^> ?
<diddledan> if you have the program /sbin/fsck.ntfs then it will check the recovery partition on the old drive to see if there's any problems with it
<^Snake^> ok, the file I found is fsck.nfs is that the same ?
<diddledan> no, unfortunately not
<^Snake^> I'm using "Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS" as a Live CD
<^Snake^> afk, bbs
<diddledan> ooh, the fsck program is replaced with /bin/ntfsck - so run `sudo ntfsck /dev/sdb1` to check the consistency of the recovery partition
<^Snake^> back, ok
<^Snake^> I still have the 2 instances of Terminal up, in the first or second?
<diddledan> it doesn't matter which one
<^Snake^> ok
<^Snake^> says "bad jump" & "bad NTFS Magic"
<^Snake^> & running that code on sdb2 (C Drive) shows as "Volume is dirty" ???
<^Snake^> "Unsupported cases found" what does all that mean ???
<^Snake^> I've just asked my daughter for her hard drive, her laptop is identical make, model, version & production date, so hopefully I can copy the hidden recovery partition off her computer
<diddledan> bad jump and bad ntfs magic either means that the sdb1 partition is hosed and will be difficult to recover OR that the filesystem isn't ntfs
<diddledan> the volume is dirty means that there are possibly errors on the c drive and a more thorough check is required. unsupported cases found I'm unsure what that means
<^Snake^> in Ubuntu, the hidden is listed as Unknown, but in Windows Vista, it's EISA Configuration
<^Snake^> ok, thanks
<diddledan> excellent idea, having your daughter's disc to copy the recovery partition is probably the most reliable way to get the thing intact
<mungbean> what happens if u use all your data on giffgiaff?
<diddledan> mungbean, the internet implodes? :-p
<^Snake^> ROFLMAO.........
<^Snake^> yeah, I was hoping it's just a problem with the way I was trying to copy, but I'll use her computer & run the same tests first, then try to copy the partition
<^Snake^> if you use all your GiffGaff data, you are stuffed
<^Snake^> until you purchase another topup
<^Snake^> GiffGaff is NOT a good network
<diddledan> no more data causes the internet to stop expanding and potentially start contracting until it forms a singularity
<^Snake^> @diddledan, brilliant :-D
<diddledan> so, for the love of all things, please don't use all your giffgaff data. the survival of humanity depends on it
<mungbean> hmmm
<mungbean> 7.50 one isnt showing
<mungbean> GG is excellent
<mungbean> why the hate?
<^Snake^> my daughter & mom use it, it's NAFF
<^Snake^> anyway, back to Linux/Ubuntu problems, in Wind(bl)ows, I have to use that Green tick icon to remove the external drive, what do I use in Ubuntu ?
<diddledan> if you're not accessing the drive in any way (mounted filesystems) then you can just unplug. if you have a filesystem accessible then you can eject the disc by opening the file manager and clicking the eject icon next to the partition/disc's name
<mungbean> ^Snake^: u know its o2 right?
<^Snake^> yes, I do
<diddledan> or if it's shown on the launcher down the left-hand of your screen then you can right click that and click eject
<^Snake^> it only shows when I click on the Home Folder, inside that, it shows as 2 (C & D Drives) USB Icons with the Drive Labels
<^Snake^> D Drive had an eject icon, I clicked that, so now if I close the Home screen, I should be able to just remove it now?
<diddledan> yes, it should be safe now
<^Snake^> k tks
<mungbean> ah, 7.50 goodybaf from 14th may
<Myrtti> so, has anyone had a look at Wheezy on Viglen?
<Myrtti> is it even possible?
<diddledan> hmm? wheezy on viglen?
<Myrtti> ie. new Debian Stable on Viglen MPC-L
<diddledan> aah
<^Snake^> ok, transfered daughter's hdd into caddy, ran "sudo ntfsck /dev/sdb1" it says "Unsupported: replay_log()", "Unsupported: check_volume()", & "Unsupported cases found", but nothing is listed as bad
<diddledan> you should be able to just copy the partition without any problems from your daughter's disc
<^Snake^> ok
<^Snake^> I had a look at the code from the website earlier
<^Snake^> the code they said to use to do the partitioning "dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1" however, when it comes to transfering the data "dd if=/dev/sdb2 of=/dev/sda2 bs=1M"
<^Snake^> the bs=512 or 1M, that is to do with sectors, why the diff between 512K & 1Mb?
<shauno> I think 512 bytes, not k, because that's the size of the mbr.  which is why count=1 too
<^Snake^> ok
<diddledan> the first command copies the partition table - the count=1 tells it to copy exactly 1 block of 512bytes (as shauno suggests)
<directhex> MBR partitioning reserves the first 512 bytes of the disk for the partition table and the boot loader. hence bs=512 count=1
<directhex> for actually transferring a bunch of data, you want bs (block size) to be a reasonably large number, so you can take advantage of things like disk cache
<directhex> transferring 1 byte at a time is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
<^Snake^> ok, I've just had a look at the Drive info, the drives (old & new are both 512 Sector Size), does it matter what the "bs=" on the second line of code?
<diddledan_> hmm, my other machine seems to be hanging
<^Snake^> my irc client dropped me earlier, I still can't get in on my registered ID
<diddledan_> the bs= on the second line makes the reads more disc friendly - 1M should yeild quite a speed increase over 512 for large reads
<^Snake^> when I bought the new HDD, it is listed as 16Mb cache
<shauno> I'm actualy not sure how you figure out the optimal block size for copying.  I get the logic that eating one pea at a time takes years, but trying to swallow a steak whole you just choke.
<diddledan_> mm, steak, now there's an idea
<^Snake^> I like your train of thought ;-)
<^Snake^> I have been known to eat food quickly, LOL
<diddledan_> I'm a fast eater
<^Snake^> Don't you just hate a meal going cold before you've finished
<diddledan_> heh, irony of ironies.. been helping you, ^Snake^ with your hard disc failure. I think mine has just died on my desktop computer
<diddledan_> hard disc death day
<^Snake^> lol, not good
<^Snake^> I can be "problematic" though
<^Snake^> I "watch sudo killall -USR1" & wondered W(hy)TF nothing is happening, forgot the "dd" at the end, DOHHH!!!!
<redtape> OT | Who thinks the Loco meetsy needs an evening like this one ? http://bit.ly/129Gpgk ::::::  Semore ? [rand.Xdesign/Europe Day]
<^Snake^> well, that was fun, it looks like it's knackered my daughter's recovery console :-(
<diddledan_> it shouldn't have touched your daughter's disc
<^Snake^> I used "dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1"
<penguin42> that would be a bad idea depending what the sda and sdb are
<^Snake^> the external, daughter's hdd is sdb 160Gb, internal sda 500 Gb
<penguin42> ^Snake^: Thus you have learnt the importance of being careful with dd
<^Snake^> I just used daughter's hdd back in her computer, it still loads windows ok, but the recovery solution sits & does nothing in bootup, but in windows, only gives option to basic or full restore, no option to make a backup
<^Snake^> the code I used supposedly transfers a copy from external to internal, but I've just doublechecked everything I typed, it's exactly as the code on the website, so I don't know why it's overwritten with nothing?
<penguin42> ^Snake^: Be careful the sda and sdb are pretty dependent on the hardware and sometimes flip at each boot
<^Snake^> is there anyway to restore it, or undo ?
<penguin42> not if you've overwritten but I think that data is generally retrieavable - I'm trying to remember if that 512bytes includes partition table
<^Snake^> is there a partition recovery program I could use ?
<penguin42> is it a dos style partition table - I guess so on the small disks
<^Snake^> dos style ?
<penguin42> ^Snake^: Normal BIOS partitions, not fancy EFI stuff
<^Snake^> basic partition, not an extended, if you meaning that type
<penguin42> no, but ok, not tried it but you could try testdisk - sounds promising
<redtape> Have last rollie before you go to the land of Angletere's they said, it'll be fun they said.
<redtape> Damn ! on patches and spit nicorete spray till Thurs. ... just hope my 'Not one puff' policy around distant family doesn't run into a distant Auntie  havin' a stoggie round the back of the lav's
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-28
<penguin42> which one?
<daftykins> sandybridge asus laptop, the U36SD
<mapps> yay
<mapps> i can now use 4od over 3g
<mapps> 3gunrestrictor ftw
<daftykins> 0o
<mapps> apps sop u using them on 3g
<mapps> wifi only like 4od
<mapps> which is annoying if you got unlimited
<daftykins> Apple ;)
<Azelphur> daftykins: did you hear about my hilarity with three?
<Azelphur> I got them to disable tethering detection on my line lol
<daftykins> :O that's pretty impressive
<daftykins> how'd they go for that? :D
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> three let me tether for no extra
<Azelphur> daftykins: I found an app which sends firefox as the HTTP User agent, and called them asking to fix it
<Azelphur> they fixed it by disabling tethering detection
<Azelphur> tl;dr, install pvstar+ and call three if it disconnects you :P
<mapps> haha
<mapps> app for what is this
<Azelphur> mapps: it's just a youtube viewing apps, but lets you do it in the background (good for music)
<mapps> AHH
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thatd be awesome if we had that on ios
<mapps> i assume its for android?
<mapps> hmm
<Azelphur> mapps: yup, Android
<Azelphur> iOS isn't the greatest of things :P
<diddledan> ios isn't the greatest?!
<diddledan> you .. you .. thingy
<diddledan> I can't think of a suitable slur
<diddledan> so thingy will now be my slur of choice
<Azelphur> lol
<mapps> woo judge judy
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> nn guys, have a good week
<mapps> nn
<MooDoo> moening all
<jussi> moaning MooDoo
<bashrc_> morning
<jussi> sigh... cold again
<MooDoo> hayfever for me
<jussi> MooDoo: I was talking about physical temperature, not sickness...
<MooDoo> ah lol
<mapps> ah hayfever sucks
<MooDoo> yeah but i'll get some stuff for it at dinner and I'll be fine.
<mapps> think i have that..whenever i go to my dads i cant stop sneezing..find it harder to breathe too
<MooDoo> it's a pain in the neck if nothing else.
<dwatkins> hey peeps
<MooDoo> howdy dwatkins
<dwatkins> Starting the day with a deep discussion on facebook is always fun.
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> depends what the conversation is about
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<dwatkins> MooDoo: it started because I shared an image of a bunch of skeletons saying that we're all the same on the inside, whatever our race, religion or sexuality.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: say no more :)
<dwatkins> It's not a bad discussion, just a long one.
<dwatkins> anyway, happy Monday people :)
<MooDoo> :D
 * dwatkins fires up a virtual machine and get out the big guns (wireshark)
<mapps> what you doing dwatkins
<dwatkins> mapps: trying to get a definitive list of all the domains used by an application in order for a whitelist specification
<DJones> Hmmh, phone died at the weekend & had to be replaced, cheap non contract phone actually seems quite reasonable for the price
<MooDoo> DJones: i'm suck to death of my s3 crashing, I'm tempted to just bin it
<DJones> Hah, new test hardware for the Ubuntu phone developed http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/28/chap_builds_mobe_based_on_raspberry_pi/ :)
<DJones> MooDoo: I had a S3, then swapped with my wife once I got a N7 tablet & she needed a more reliable phone (than the Desire HD she was using), that finally died a death yesterday after getting stuck in the rom boot menu, picked up a Â£50 Alcatel OneTouch android phone which is pretty decent for what it is
<MooDoo> DJones: I put cyanogen mod on it, but it's crashing every 2 mins :(
<DJones> I was tempted to try that to see if it would rescue the phone, but decided I couldn't be bothered wasting the time to do it
 * DJones installs 14.04 in virtualbox to try the upgrade to 14.10
<bashrc> I'm also running cyanogen on a phone currently.  Havn't had any crashes
<ali1234> cyanogen crashes all the time for me
<ali1234> almost every time i get a phone call
<ali1234> it never used to do this
<ali1234> i think my phone is too old now and it is triggering the watchdog
<bashrc> yes, it's probably that the memory is too limited and the oom-killer is doing its thing
<bashrc> a bit like a problem I was having on the Beaglebone
<ali1234> yeah that's also quite likely
<DJones> When I come to upgrade, I might be tempted by the OnePlus One phone
<ali1234> why would you buy anything but nexus? seriously?
<ali1234> or maybe SGS
<bashrc> I got a second hand nexus 4
<DJones> ali1234: Yeah, will probably end up being a choice between Nexus 5/SGS5/HTC M8
<Myrtti> ooh errr. Nests on Google Play. I don't know how well they work in British homes though. We got OWL installed at ours.
<dwatkins> are we the mice?
<MooDoo> or are we men?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it won't work in mine -- I can only turn heating up (or down) by twisting knobs on my radiators
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I saw an ad for thermostats like that in telly few days back, Danfoss apparently has some fancy new kit
<jussi> MooDoo: we are but men, ROCK ON!
<MartijnVdS> jussi: are we human? Or are we dancer?
<MooDoo> jussi: pic of destiny ;)
<MooDoo> yay LPIC-1 has arrived.
<MooDoo> book
<popey> retro
<MooDoo> light reading for when I've done my MS exam next month lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon BigRedS
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and BigRedS
<Myrtti> I'd really prefer if the furry baby would jump and go sleep in his basket
<davmor2> Morning all
<jamieshepherd> Hi guys, up until about an hour ago the command :  route add -net 141.163.0.0 netmask 255.255.0.0 dev ppp0 would work to route traffic to my Uni's VPN from my VPS (after I do pon plymuni)
<jamieshepherd> However, now whenever I enter this command the whole VPS freezes
<foobarry> can any scripting wiz show me the best way to extract a givenname field from a list of gecos and sn? python does "subtract" on strings doesn't it?
<dwatkins> jamieshepherd: perhaps something has changed on the VPN; how are you connecting to the server?
<jamieshepherd> That's what I thought, but I can connect on my laptop fine
<jamieshepherd> Just on my VPS, I usually write pon plymuni, followed by adding the route
<dwatkins> how are you connecting to it, jamieshepherd?
<jamieshepherd> And it's worked literally for the past 3 weeks, and now it's presentation day about 1hr 30 away rofl and it doesn't work
<jamieshepherd> Sorry, how do you mean? Through a VPN
<dwatkins> before you activate the uni VPN, yeah
<dwatkins> ssh, vnc, console access to the virtual machine through a browser?
<jamieshepherd> How am I connecting to the VPS? Just ssh
<dwatkins> does the OS freeze, or just your ssh connection to it?
<jamieshepherd> But when I add that route command nothing responds, ssh closes, websites cease to work
<jamieshepherd> Digital Ocean lists it as "Active" still but, nothing can connect traffic wise
<jamieshepherd> So perhaps there is a clash
<dwatkins> I assume you're stopping your own traffic from reaching it, then.
<jamieshepherd> Here is my ifconfig: https://gist.github.com/jamieshepherd/11367656
<jamieshepherd> Could you see something that might be clashing here?
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: what's your local IP? Are you on the 141.163.0.0/16 network?
<jamieshepherd> I am not no
<jamieshepherd> Oh
<jamieshepherd> That's a massive lie
<jamieshepherd> I actually am
<jamieshepherd> I'm at the Uni now.. This would make a lot of sense
<dwatkins> perhaps the order of the routes has changed so it uses the VPN as the default when you execute the command
<dwatkins> aha
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: It's trying to send all traffic to you over the VPN instead of directly :)
<jamieshepherd> Ah of course, well that was dumb of me
<dwatkins> easily sorted, though :)
<jamieshepherd> At least i know what's causing it now, just means I can't connect to the website from the Uni I guess
<jamieshepherd> Is there a way I could get it working for this presentation?
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: try using 'ip link', 'ip route' and 'ip addr' -- they're the "new" tools :)
<dwatkins> whereabouts is the website, jamieshepherd?
<jamieshepherd> Amsterdam
<dwatkins> I mean in network terms
<jamieshepherd> I'm sorry, I don't understand
<dwatkins> why can't you access it directly right now?
<jamieshepherd> Away from the Uni, i.e. not on the network
<jamieshepherd> So anywhere else I can connect to the website, just at the Uni I cannot
<jamieshepherd> Because of the reason MartijnVdS said I suppose
<MartijnVdS> then don't set the route?
<dwatkins> so you need to set the VPN as the default route?
<dwatkins> I'm guessing here.
<jamieshepherd> Times out without the route
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you don't want that!
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: I always see how to fix network/routing things best when drawing them on a piece of paper
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: machines (nodes) as squares, with a line for each network interface
<dwatkins> good plan
<MartijnVdS> include your local machine, both ends of the VPN, your server, etc.
<MartijnVdS> the website too
<jamieshepherd> [My Machine]--connected to Uni VPN--[Uni VPN]--connected to uni VPN--[Amsterdam VPS]
<jamieshepherd> only problem is the presentation is about an hour away
<jamieshepherd> so was just wondering if there might be a quick fix
<dwatkins> can you access other ports on the server?
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: also consider what the VPN is running on (the interface(s) it's using)
<MartijnVdS> jamieshepherd: also, a real drawing works best because you can add *all* the network interfaces
<jamieshepherd> PPTP
<MartijnVdS> (a VPN is a connection inside a connection)
<jamieshepherd> Well, at least I know what the problem is
<jamieshepherd> Just don't have time to fix it before the presentation
<jamieshepherd> So I'll just tether my phone on 3G and connect my laptop to that ;D
<jamieshepherd> Thanks for your help anyway guys much appreciated as always <3
<dwatkins> sounds like quite a restrictive university network
<jamieshepherd> Yeah they're almost as clueless as me I think
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: A VPS sounds like a weird place to terminate a VPN to me:)
<jamieshepherd> Pretty sure it's run by students
<jamieshepherd> The VPS is one I own Martin
<jamieshepherd> DigitalOcean droplet
<jamieshepherd> Unrelated to the Uni ^
<jamieshepherd> It's just, the database for the application has to be hosted at the Uni
<MartijnVdS> sure.. but usually you run a VPN connection to a secured network from your local workstation
<MartijnVdS> not from a random VPS
<jamieshepherd> So I had to do some retarded routing from my VPS website to the database
<jamieshepherd> Yeah the VPS hosts a website, which uses features of teh database on the Uni network
<MartijnVdS> you could just a add a route to *just the database server*, instead of the entire /16
<foobarry> wonder if anyone can help me approach this problem?
<foobarry> probably with some bash script
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: which problem was that again?
<foobarry> need to do a large ldap modify. list of givenname fields to go with surnames
<foobarry> i have a text file of givenname.txt and gecos.txt
<foobarry> i want to create an ldif file that says, line by line,
<foobarry> add a given name of the xth line gecos entry  to be the xth line of the  givenname file
<foobarry> i can do the ldap bit, but not the bashy bit
<foobarry> for a single file i do for x in 'cat file' do echo x done
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: this sounds like an awk kind of job
<dwatkins> it's handy that there are so many types of Chrome/Chromium I can install, I'm running three separate instances of it at the moment.
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: you may be right :D
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: or Perl, because awk is awkward :)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: let me whip something up :)
<foobarry> wow cheers
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: untested, needs modification, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7352024/
<foobarry> great, thankyou
<jussi> MooDoo: you about?
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: works perfect, cheers
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: \o/
<dwatkins> looking at snippets of Perl like this is a good way to learn a language
<dwatkins> I assume you used 'chomp' to remove the newline at the end of each line, MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> not really necessary if you extract the fields (using regexes or split or something) anyway.
<dwatkins> still a good programming practise, I imagine
<MartijnVdS> Yeah.. though I don't read a lot of text files these days ;)
<MartijnVdS> mostly database work
<dwatkins> I'm still learning how to do that from PHP. I assume it's not something you would do from JavaScript, though, as it's client-side.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I'm assuming there'd be a global object/API to do that
<MartijnVdS> in "stand-alone" javascript
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: probably, but if I'm writing the entire site, I assume it's best to not give anything external access to the database, and have the PHP retreive data from the server itself.
<MooDoo> jussi: wassup?
<dwatkins> ah I see what you mean, executing a JS file directly, perhaps yeah.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, that does sound useful :) Except that it's still PHP :P
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine mostly JS is used for things like resizing a page, forms and so on, not database connectivity
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: have a look at nodejs and be scared ;)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I will be doing that eventually, gotta learn basic JS and jquery first.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but.. also.. you want a very thing "API" layer that does nothing but handle requests for data from a (JS) front-end
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: have a look at Angular :)
<MartijnVdS> https://angularjs.org/
<dwatkins> thin, I assume you mean ;)
<MartijnVdS> thin, yes
<dwatkins> interesting, thanks - I assume that's mostly about formatting the data
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: also about retrievign it
<dwatkins> I'm jumping the gun a bit and assuming that you wouldn't want your users to have access to any kind of database ever, but I guess if they're just reading from it via some kind of interface that presents as http or something, that's fine
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: That sounds good. Except if your database has programmable access controls (like an HTTP server has -- you write the controllers that present the data to the client side :))
<MartijnVdS> then the client side uses the HTTP output as its model
<MartijnVdS> all very dynamic and JS and hip and modern
 * dwatkins puts on his horn-rimmed glasses
<dwatkins> no really, I have some on my desk (they're a prop)
<MartijnVdS> were they.. propped up by something?
<dwatkins> badum tschhhhhhh
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Can you see PROPerly with them?
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0063CZWRU/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> morning
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> turned out nice again
<Azelphur> Yup, Ubuntu 14.04 is a lesson in frustration for me, copy paste doesn't even work properly any more :(
<Azelphur> yay for the continual degradation of multi screen support \o/
<bashrc> 14.04 seems ok to me
<Azelphur> bashrc: yea, this bug won't affect you unless you have separate X screens
<dwatkins> copy & paste was always a bit hit & miss for me, especially as there was never a consistent keyboard shortcut for it across all applications
<Azelphur> yea, the way Linux handles it is a little bizarre, rather than pulling into memory it just expects the data to still be there in the original application when you paste
<Azelphur> I've copied something out of chrome, closed the tab, then tried to paste it so many times by accident.
<davmor2> Azelphur: wait till gnome drop middle mouse copy/paste :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<dwatkins> that's the thing, though - there are both Gnome and app-specific mechanisms for copying and pasting
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I have a feeling it's the gnome ones that are broken, I can copy from other applications (firefox) but not from gnome ones (terminal, gedit, ...)
<bashrc> ah, so far I usually only have one screen, aothough currently I am using two
<penguin42> hmph, that's annoying - the latest version of the newsblur android app requires Android 3, and I don't think the old one is working any more
<popey> Dishwasher is broken. Having to wash crockery by hand. It's like the DARK AGES here! #firstworldproblems
<penguin42> how many extra glasses/plates/takeaways have you ordered to avoid that
<davmor2> popey: you could always just fix the dishwasher instead :D
<popey> this evenings meal was made with only one pan â»
<popey> i have googled, seems the "float" is broken
<popey> or clogged, the moter runs constantly to pump out water, even when it's empty
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> i get that
<foobarry> u have a bosch exccel by any chance?
<foobarry> get to 0 mins and its still chugging
<foobarry> popey: i get it quite a bit, i haven't yet had to take the side off the dishwasher yet, although soemtimes it gets bad for a whole week
<davmor2> popey: possibly water logged float maybe
<foobarry> usually it's either some foil/sweetcorn under the drain bit. i ensure the drainage bit at the bottom is clean completely
<foobarry> then pour a little washing up liquid, boiling water and leave a little while
<foobarry> then press the buttons to reset the cycle
<foobarry> which manually drainsthe water
<foobarry> then pour v hot water in the bottom bit again and start a hot wash without many dishes in
<foobarry> usually it clears after a while
<popey> no, neff
<popey> its a built in machine though
<popey> there's a little tap icon in the display
<popey> I'll give that a try, thanks
<mapps> evening
<popey> I did pour hot water in earlier, but I think it's knotted up with cheese
<popey> wifey cleaned the filter the other day
<penguin42> under maintenance?
<popey> I believe these are related
<daftykins> built-in units can be a real son of a gun
<daftykins> had this one in Portsmouth that nobody could work out how to remove
<mapps> hm
<foobarry> i tell my wife its not a waste disposal unit
<foobarry> http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F234959926-airfix-124-hawker-typhoon-on-the-flight-line%2F
<popey> i think she sufficiently dislodged cheese into the bottom
<foobarry> wow, that is a stunning model plane
<popey> that is impressive
<diddledan> just got done watching white house down - I feel patriotic.
<daftykins> diddledan: for Brits? :)
<daftykins> or to... rather
<diddledan> foobarry, that's impressive
<diddledan> daftykins, unfortunately for america
<diddledan> I dang near cried when the lil girl waved the president's flag to ward off an air strike
<daftykins> XD
 * diddledan looking through movies. got to the matrix. I'm trying to remember the name of the wachowski brother - for some reason Lana's name springs to mind easily but her brother I can't remember
<diddledan> and post sexchange, are they to be referred to as "the wachowskis" or "the wachowski siblings"?
<diddledan> wiki says it's the former - interesting bit about a netflix series they're making to debut later in the year
<daftykins> ah yesi'd forgotten about that
<maps|wrk> hai
<daftykins> o hai
<maps|wrk> sup daftykins ?
<daftykins> not much sir
<daftykins> just gaming
<popey> \o/ Jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<Azelphur> Jabber party \o/
<Azelphur> it has been a while :p
<daftykins> i never get why you lot used to say that
<popey> its a greeting
<maps|wrk> fail to see how people love this bbc show the callcentre
<maps|wrk> it's pretty dull, watching it on iplayer atm
<popey> i dislike people like that so find it hard to watch
<maps|wrk> kinda amusing when the managers say to young staff ..'youve got potential you just need to change your attitude' ./..seriously it's a call centre,
<daftykins> what kind of people popey?
<maps|wrk> self serving idiots that run basic companies and try to portray it off as something more than it is?
<maps|wrk> it's a call centre that makes nuisance calls thats all..nothing more imo
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> sounds terrible
<maps|wrk> well i mean, any of us could run a call centre like that..pay people minimum wage, make nuisance calls to get people to have insulation etc and make money off the grants
<maps|wrk> but its still..nothing more than that
<penguin42> popey: you mean the type of call centres that lower the level to which the turing test has to reach?
<popey> I mean, I don't like outgoing pushy people â»
<penguin42> yeh, me neither
<maps|wrk> yea me too..he's the kinda clown that'd embarass you infront of everyone and tihnk it's ok
<maps|wrk> *think
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-29
<maps|wrk> grmph
<maps|wrk> everyone gone to sleep?
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> anyone looked at http://goodnightlamp.com/ ?
<shauno> I don't get it
<maps|wrk> im not sure i do really
<maps|wrk> it seems a bit pointless to me?
<maps|wrk> Good Night Lamp is a physical social network. It allows you to keep in touch with people all over the world. When you buy Good Night Lamp it comes as a set of two lamps: a Big Lamp and a Little Lamp. When you turn on your Big Lamp, the Little Lamp turns on too. You can send your Little Lamp to your friend or family member anywhere in the world. There is no lengthy setup and no internet connection needed.
<maps|wrk> uses the phone network and when  i turn my big light on the small liht also come on..great whats the point of that?
<maps|wrk> * The Good Night Lamp Lightning service is free for five years. pah they expect people to pay after? O_o
<shauno> sounds reasonable enough
<shauno> I mean, you'd be crazy to promise lifetime support when you're selling stuff that's so pointless you're not going to be in business next week
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> but the actual concept? i dont see the need for it
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> morning MooDoo mate
<MooDoo> how's it going mapps
<mapps> not bad mate...u?
<mapps> was just watching black gold:) always find theres stuff on between 6-8am i like watching
<dwatkins> is that a TV channel, mapps?
<mapps> its the show about drilling for oil..us show shown on ITV2/3 atn like 6/7am
<mapps> just watched the following finale ;D
<dwatkins> aha interesting
<dwatkins> are there prizes? do they eject people from the house^W rig if they're naughty?
<DJones> mapps: Has Bobby Ewing got out of the shower yet
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1239472/
<mapps> i dont think so dwatkins
<mapps> its just kinda interesting imo
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm just kidding
<mapps> you seen it? its decent enough
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> morning diplo
<mapps> the finale of the following was good too
<dwatkins> no, I did enjoy Ice Road Truckers, though.
<mapps> ah yea thats kinda cool
<bashrc> morning
<mapps> morning bashrc
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> sleep time for me now
<mapps> think im the only one that works nights here heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You asked: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2014/04/how-to-install-a-squid-dansguardian-content-filter-on-ubuntu-server/
<popey> yay
<smittix> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy smittix
<smittix> :D
<brobostigon> [A
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<andylockran> howdy all
<brobostigon> morning andylockran
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<BigRedS> does setting xdebug.profiler_enable to 0 effectively turn xdebug off (so I can rule that out as why everything's going slowly)?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<BigRedS> oh, and good morning everyone! :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Ow's Life up norff
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye not bad lad
<jussi> got a good laugh out of this... http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/sorrynotsorry
<ali1234> what browser is "browser"?
<brobostigon> any of dozens of possibilities. :)
<ali1234> it doesn't work properly anyway
<brobostigon> which one?
<ali1234> ubuntu browser
<brobostigon> firefox, chromium, etc. ?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> ubuntu web browser
<ali1234> the web browser made by ubuntu
<MooDoo> ali1234: there isn't such as thing
<ali1234> popey: tell them ^
<popey> Yup.
<popey> oxide
<ali1234> it doesn't appear to support javascript
<popey> example site?
<ali1234> dev.drumoff.tv click on the blue video thumbnails
 * MooDoo shuts up, you're referring to mobile aren't you
<popey> no, desktop
<MooDoo> oh
<ali1234> it's available on desktop too
<popey> webbrowser-app html5test.com
<popey> seems to show quite a bit of support
<ali1234> it still have the mobile UI though, which makes it incredibly difficult to use, but hey, early days
<jussi> waiiit.... what?
<jussi> ubuntu wants to become google?
<ali1234> also it isn't correctly preserving aspect ratio on divs
<popey> ali1234: what doesn't work?
<popey> (I mean, specifically on your site)
<popey> I am seeing the nice pictures scrolling, cat!
<ali1234> popey: click the blue video thumbnails - the videos don't play. it doesn't even load up
<ali1234> compare the site on ... well pretty much anything else
<popey> plays here
 * popey watches someone drum
<popey> mohawk!
<ali1234> also if you horizontally resize the window, notice that the thumbnails aspect ratio isn't preserved
<ali1234> oh yeah mohawk guy... well, why doesn't it work here?
<popey> some do, some dont
<popey> you're missing codecs
<ali1234> hmm
<popey> oxideqt-codecs-extra
<popey> install that
<ali1234> the horizontal resize/aspect ratio thing applies to the whole page... that's really weird
<ali1234> well, it can't be codecs... the div doesn't even get replaced with the iframe
<ali1234> in the jquery code, when you click a video, it gets the parent element of "Choose a video." and does .html('<iframe>...') on it
<ali1234> that event isn't even firing here
<ali1234> and yeah the resize thing is because it's resizing a bitmap while it rerenders the page properly
<ali1234> still doesn't work with the codecs
<popey> odd, works here.
<ali1234> though the javascript must be running, because the thumbnail rows work okay
<ali1234> can i get a debug console?
<ali1234> object inspector?
<popey> --inspector
<popey>   --inspector        run a remote inspector on port 9221
<ali1234> what's the command called?
<popey>  webbrowser-app --inspector dev.drumoff.tv
<popey> should do it?
<popey> never used it myself..
<ali1234> are you rnning a bleeding edge version or something?
 * popey points at chrisccoulson 
<popey> trusty
<ali1234> because i've only got whatever demo is in trusty
<diplo> Anyone use php curl here ?
<popey>   Installed: 0.23+14.04.20140416-0ubuntu1
<diplo> On my local dev my code downloads images I'm trying to get fine, on my VPS it downloads as a 404 file, exactly the same code
<ali1234> jsbin.com doesn't work at all for me
<selinuxium> Hi all, anyone here had any experience with Spiceworks?
<popey> Ooh, thunder
<DJones> ...thunder...thunder...thundercats...hoooo
<MartijnVdS> DJones: oh man I used to watch that :)
<MartijnVdS> a *LOT*
<MartijnVdS> back in the 80s?
<diplo> heh, my kids are in to it in a big way now
<diplo> And 80's sounds about right
<DJones> Yeah, same here, it nice to relax to as a student
<davmor2> DJones: see I see popey type thunder and I hear this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk
<davmor2> curses youtube for ruining his childhood cartoon connection :)
<DJones> I had either thundercats or "bolt and lightning, very, very frightening"
<MartijnVdS> galileo?
<DJones> Yep
<davmor2> Figaro
<MooDoo> da da da da da da da da da dadadada :)
<DJones> Heh https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/486694_467187566724623_2128209998_n.png
<MooDoo> DJones: oh that's fab :)
<DJones> Made me smile anyway
<MooDoo> me too I've shared it on FB
<DJones> Wonder how long it'll be till McDonalds, Starbucks & Burger King try to get it taken down
<ali1234> DJones: http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/31/de/e5/31dee50261eabeeb7fd0721308fb5a2d.jpg
<ali1234> top left is relevant, the others are amusing too
<DJones> Top left isscary
<foobarry> if i am configuring calendars for the evlution data server, do i need evolution app too?
<foobarry> i want to configure calendar apps that alelgedly support eds
<MartijnVdS> no e-d-s is separate
<popey> nope
<popey> i dont have evolution installed and i use eds
<popey> (we use it on the phone too)
<foobarry> how does one config eds?
<awilkins> I've just ignored eds since I've never found a way to integrate it with Thunderbird / Lightning / Google Calendar
<popey> i only know the answer for ubuntu
<awilkins> Is there a Calendar lens?
<foobarry> popey: what's the answer for ubuntu pls?
<foobarry> would be a start
<popey> cog -> online accounts
<foobarry> !info evolution-ews
<lubotu3> evolution-ews (source: evolution-ews): Exchange Web Services integration for Evolution. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.8.4-0ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 289 kB, installed size 1481 kB
<foobarry> not in 12.04 :(
<aquarius> popey, ping: what would you want to see in a syncthing indicator?
<popey> aquarius: is it running, is there an update (shush about packaging), any transfers pending, whether every other machine is in sync or not
<aquarius> OK, cool.
<aquarius> I'll look at the updates stuff
<popey> aquarius: buttons to pause/restart sync would be handy
<popey> dunno if syncthing has an api to pause/restart sync
<diplo> I couldn't get syncthing to work last time I tried
 * diplo sets as a TODO for tomorrow 
<popey> updated mine to 0.8.2 today
<aquarius> afaict you can't pause and restart from the web gui
<aquarius> so there's no API
<aquarius> the feature may not even exist
<aquarius> you can of course entirely stop syncthing
<aquarius> but how you do that is massively system-dependent
<aquarius> on my machine you'd do "stop syncthing" but on yours probably not :P
<diplo> https://github.com/calmh/syncthing - That the right one ?
<popey> yes
<diplo> Great thanks
<popey> i love it â»
<diplo> I really like the look of it but couldn't get it to run between my machines
<diplo> Would like to also do windows machines that I had an issue with
<diplo> Do you just use it locally popey ?
<popey> i use it between 3 machines at home
<popey> i haven't yet exposed it to the outside
<diplo> ah right, probably what I want to do.. but I'll try between this machine and a VM for a start I guess
 * peng42phone waits for the bus back from Alton towers
<Laney> man
<Laney> aren't rainbow just a great band
 * Laney inches closer to becoming his dad
<peng42phone> Who?
<Laney> rainbow
<peng42phone> Never heard of them
<Laney> i recommend changing that fact
<bashrc> what genre?
<Laney> i suspect you'd probably call them classic rock nowadays
<peng42phone> A.t. was pretty much empty, walk on to most stuff (especially as single rider) and the weather has been great
<peng42phone> Laney: what year where they big?
<Laney> second half of the 70s to the 80s
<peng42phone> Hmm, I do know a lot of the softer 70s stuff and more common stuff
<Laney> you probably know since you've been gone
<peng42phone> And anyway when people say rainbow I think zipper and bungle
<peng42phone> Y
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz32na7dtmsk65k/IMG_20140429_170456.jpg
<daftykins> glad these aren't for me
<Laney> srsly
<Laney> can't you get third party ones :(
<daftykins> you can if you don't want them to last
<ali1234> popey: i rewrote all my jquery and it works now in webbrowser-app... weird
<daftykins> far too much cheap knock off stuff going on for lightning, if you check out amazon the reviews are not great
<aquarius> popey, wanna try the indicator? It doesn't talk to actual syncthing yet because calmh hasn't written the events API, but you can experiment with it and send fake events
<ali1234> i notice that webbrowser-app follows the same none-standard behaviour of safari and chrome, where it won't autoplay html5 video unless the user clicks the player once
<Laney> webbrowser-app handily triggers a nouveau bug which locks up my machine
<ali1234> this "feature" would be fine if there was a way to do feature detection on it, but there isn't :(
<ali1234> the only way to detect it is to try to autoplay a video, wait 5 seconds, and then test if the video is hanging
<peng42phone> Ali1234: hmm that sounds a reasonable feature frankly
<ali1234> or do browser sniffing. both ways really suck
<ali1234> yeah it's reasonable. it's only a feature on mobile devices
<ali1234> so iphone and android
<aquarius> that's not non-standard.
<popey> aquarius: sure, in an hour, on a call.
<ali1234> show me where it is documented how to tell whether a webbrowser will do this or not then
<daftykins> auto video playback should be banned
<aquarius> that you can't tell whether it's doing it or not does not mean that you're not allowed to do it. :)
<peng42phone> Ali1234: I think I'd like it on desktop as well
<aquarius> the standard actively encourages browser vendors to require user interaction
<ali1234> you can disable autoplay on deskop too
<aquarius> I agree that it's annoying that you can't tell whether it's happened!
<aquarius> although...
<ali1234> but the way it is implemented also prevent any site that wants to have a play button that is outside the video window
<aquarius> can't you just check one second after the page loads whether the video is in playing state?
<ali1234> and rather than say, just doing nothing, if you call playVideoById() on one of the non-standard implementations, it hangs the player on a black screen
<ali1234> aquarius: no, because i am not trying to autoplay a video
<ali1234> i am trying to implement a playlist, remember?
<ali1234> the only problem for me is that 1. i need an annoying workaround in the code just for this case and 2. the user has to click twice instead of once before they can watch a video
<aquarius> you could make the "play" button *be* the video element, and then just move it when they click on it ;)
<ali1234> user has to click the playlist item for the video, and then click the play button in the video window. but only on mobile devices
<bashrc> is there any way of showing bank holidays on the calendar, as in KDE?
<ali1234> aquarius: no, impossible, because i am using youtube embeds
<aquarius> ah
<aquarius> popey, nw, let me know when
<popey> aquarius: yo, around
<aquarius> popey, git clone https://github.com/stuartlangridge/syncthing-ubuntu-indicator.git
<aquarius> popey, edit syncthing-ubuntu-indicator.py line 58 and set it to wherever your syncthing is
<aquarius> popey, run "python testserver.py" in a terminal
<aquarius> popey, run "python syncthing-ubuntu-indicator.py" in another terminal
<aquarius> then you can generate events in the testserver.py terminal by pressing keys 1-5
 * peng42phone passes a sign 'Beware! Bikers'  I wonder if that's aims are 2 or 4 wheeled readers
<popey> i see a cloud
<aquarius> good. If you hit 3 in the testserver window, which is a "PULL_START" event (a file has started syncing down to this computer), the cloud should indicate that syncing is going on
<aquarius> and there is information in the menu that syncing is going on
<popey> the cloud does, it's grey though so hard to see
<aquarius> hitting 4 in the testserver window will send a "PULL_COMPLETE" event (that file has now successfully synced to this machine), and the cloud should stop indicating that syncing is happening
<popey> yup, that all works
<aquarius> grey? shouldn't be; the cloud is white
<aquarius> screenshot?
<aquarius> basically, you've seen what it does, now -- the question is, what else should it show, and how? and does it need all the info that it currently displays?
<popey> https://imgur.com/PS8ZUnA
<popey> dropbox sync thing tells you which specific file is being synced which is nice to know
<popey> "Oh, it's doing that giant file"
<popey> "Oh, why is it syncing that, i thought I'd deleted it"
<popey> etc
<aquarius> ah, that's a good idea, yeah, I can do that
<aquarius> wtf?
<aquarius> ah.
<popey> dropbox also has a recently changed files thing
<aquarius> I used the same icon names as the sync menu
<aquarius> I bet it's using the sync menu icons for you, not mine (which are very similar)
<aquarius> I'll fix that
<aquarius> and I'll show currently syncing files
<popey> cool, thanks!
<aquarius> and recent files (perhaps in a submenu)
<shauno> 'recently changed' is ftw, that's the most common reason I use the dropbox icon rather than the folder
<popey> its not stopping when i CTRL+C
 * popey kills
 * popey wanders off for a bit
<popey> aquarius: also, notifications
<popey> e.g. I see "17:14:45: Connection to Desktop closed: ping timeout" in the web UI
<popey> that would do as a notification
<popey> maybe
<aquarius> popey, most of that stuff now fixed
<popey> ooh
<aquarius> popey, ^C works; you should get my icons now; recently synced and currently syncing
<aquarius> I'm not sure about notifications
<aquarius> it's really really irritating to get a zillion notifications...
<aquarius> popey, update with "git pull", I think
<popey> still grey
<aquarius> rly?
<popey> and ctrl+c still fails to kill it
<aquarius> does "grep client-idle syncthing-ubuntu-indicator.py" show any lines?
<aquarius> ok, I don't think you've got the newest version :)
<aquarius> try "git pull origin master"
<popey> oh, hang on
<aquarius> man, I hate git :)
<popey> pull failed because I edited it
<aquarius> ah
<aquarius> yeah
<aquarius> you could edit it back
<popey> nvm
<popey> delete, re-clone
<aquarius> or "git fetch" or "git merge" perhaps
<aquarius> but just bin it and reclone is prolly easier ;)
<popey> too much effort
<popey> new ugly icon â»
<mapps> evening folks
<aquarius> popey, ha!
<aquarius> popey, bust out inkscape and do better ;)
<popey> â»
<aquarius> popey, the rest should work though
<popey> yup
<aquarius> good. Anything else you think it should do, or that it does do that you think that it does not need?
<aquarius> (note: it also will tell you about updates, if there are any)
<aquarius> annoyingly, it needs a config window, I think
<aquarius> unless reading syncthing's own config file is kosher
<popey> aquarius: a link to the support disqus site?
<aquarius> I think that reading syncthing's config file is kosher, so I'm gonna do that.
<aquarius> No config windows for me; that's rubbish
<aquarius> it makes the indicator feel like a separate app rather than part of syncthing.
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all, trying to connect to wife from console, but dhclient hangs on dhcpdiscover
<TheProphet[S]> To WiFi sorry
<daftykins> lol
<TheProphet[S]> I'm using wpa supplicant and the wext driver
<daftykins> i was going to say, that protocol hasn't been refined yet
<daftykins> does static addressing work?
<neuro> GOOD EVENING PEOPLE, IT IS I, THE NEURO
<daftykins> oh crikey not you!
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> popey: git reset --hard HEAD && git clean -d -f
<neuro> daftykins: YES, TIS I
<daftykins> *gasp*
<davmor2> neuro: seeing that statement now makes me wonder if it is actually you, or just an elaborate double bluff :)
<neuro> TIS NOT AN ELABORATE BLUFF
<neuro> LOOK AT MY USE OF CAPITALS
<daftykins> ooh my, drama and intrigue in #ubuntu-uk
<TheProphet[S]> Daftykins not sure about static addressing
<daftykins> give it a try?
<davmor2> neuro: but I haven't seen you use one yet I mean no LONDON, EDINBURGH nothing
<daftykins> TheProphet[S]: though often no DHCP communications suggests a bad driver, or failed wireless key auth
<neuro> London? Edinburgh?
<neuro> I am in neither of these places
<davmor2> neuro: no but they are CAPITALS :P
<neuro> jpc
<TheProphet[S]> I guess "network is unreachable" is not a good message to get when trying to ping
<neuro> nope
<daftykins> ^
<TheProphet[S]> Maybe the syntax is wrong, but I followed how to on Ubuntu forum
<mapps> hm
<mapps> 9eps behind on hannibal serie 2
<daftykins> TheProphet[S]: sometimes routers/APs in mixed-mode WPA1 and 2 can trip things up
<TheProphet[S]> I'm probably doing something wrong
<TheProphet[S]> I start with ifconfig wlan0 up
<TheProphet[S]> Then wpa_supplicant -B -Dwext -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
<TheProphet[S]> The conf file contains network={
<TheProphet[S]> ssid="abcd"
<TheProphet[S]> psk="pass"
<TheProphet[S]> }
<daftykins> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<daftykins> hopefully you have a space there "-c /etc/wpa_su..."
<TheProphet[S]> I'm actually typing it sorry, I'm using my phone to chat because of no connection on PC
<TheProphet[S]> There's no space on man pages between -c and path to file
<daftykins> that seems odd
<TheProphet[S]> I think wpa_supplicant works with no spaces, same goes for the driver wext option -D which becomes -Dwext
<TheProphet[S]> Problem could be that when I start wpa_supplicant as stated above the daemon starts successfully but I get an Invalid Argument error twice
<daftykins> yeah that's definitely not good
<daftykins> your interface definitely is wlan0 then and not eth1 or something odd?
<MartijnVdS> I installed a new machine last week, and it ended up with "p1p1" and "p3p1" instead of eth0 and eth1
<TheProphet[S]> Yes it is wlan0
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: heh, funky drivers?
<MartijnVdS> 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 06)
<MartijnVdS> apparently these names are "less confusing"?
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/biosdevname/+bug/1293633
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1284043 in biosdevname (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1293633 udev renaming the same hardware network i/f to different name, breaks networking and firewall" [High,Confirmed]
<MartijnVdS> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035670.html
<MartijnVdS> it's because it's a server install
<daftykins> hrmm
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> howdy
<czajkowski> aloha
<daftykins> a wild czajkowski o/
<diddledan> in the wild, too
<czajkowski> nope actually in the UK and working
<czajkowski> although boggling at gmail
<czajkowski> webmail shows 88 in inbox
<czajkowski> desktop client shows 112
<czajkowski> no idea why the difference
<daftykins> my Nexus 4 tells me i have '1 unread' when the inbox is at 0
<daftykins> drives me mad but if you go through pages and pages not one appears unread XD
<daftykins> could it be threading?
<czajkowski> hmm possibly
<czajkowski> trying to get to 0 before Friday
<daftykins> *mission impossible theme*
<diddledan> htf have I got 16.85million emails in my gmail account?!
<diddledan> (apple's mail.app is still syncing after setting it up yesterday)
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> mail clients are so 2000's
<czajkowski> I do love thunderbird
<czajkowski> nothing has come close to replacing it
<diddledan> yeah, but I like to pgp
<daftykins> ugh i have a client with thunderbird, its' settings for accounts and storage just became far too confused
<daftykins> they're too tight to let me have them all standardised with google apps
<daftykins> mainly 'cause their current mail host keeps forgetting to charge them for anything, so their current fee = Â£0
<penguin42> it's embarrassing when you realise a supplier has never asked you to pay for something
<daftykins> :D
<czajkowski> hah #78 take that
<daftykins> a clients web hoster had a unique approach to finally asking for some money
<daftykins> pulling the website with no warning
<daftykins> \o/
<penguin42> nasty
<penguin42> daftykins: I've seen it where an electricity company only asked us to pay for 1 of 6 meters in a company I worked for - it took us a year or two to convince them we should be paying, and we were running a few 100A off it
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> classic
<penguin42> daftykins: It was after I went to look about adding more capacity and went to track down the details that I had to go look at the bill, and came to the conclusion we hadn't been paying for about 5 years
<daftykins> that is some impressive stuff
<penguin42> anyone got any idea what  http://imagebin.org/308206   text is - it's overlayed (with a load of other computery text) on 'The Smiler's funky displays
<daftykins> hmm certainly getting nothing from Google from a guess of 'callPanelDivFreqInput'
<aquarius> popey, syncthing indicator now reads your config file to know where syncthing is, so no more editing needed for you
<popey> aquarius: sweet!
<popey> thanks for working on that
<aquarius> nw
<aquarius> makes sense
<aquarius> I'm the one who customised his syncthing port, after all :P
<ali1234> penguin42: it's the log from some mobile phone
<ali1234> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4EzzENTDmFgJ:home.educities.edu.tw/fushiyun2000/gameconsole_jxd_jxd_200_hardware_uart.htm+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=ubuntu
<penguin42> ali1234: Since that says 'game console' and the other thing I found said playstation maybe it's more game dev?
<ali1234> http://www.tripleoxygen.net/files/cybergame/log/minicom.cap1
<ali1234> it's from some chinese fake-iphone thing that doesn't know if it's a phone or a games console
<penguin42> oh weird, mention of eCos as well
<aquarius> popey, something to think about: it's rare that you'd open the menu without a reason, which means that you are likely not to see that there's an update to syncthing
<aquarius> popey, this suggests that there should be an icon for "there's an update available". So, two questions: what does it look like, and more importantly what happens if there's an update available *and* a file is syncing?
<aquarius> perhaps some sort of "download arrow" overlay? but it's a pretty small icon to show that sort of thing
<popey> it should change colour
<popey> </mpt>
<directhex> um...
<directhex> rip off sparkleshare? a down arrow overlay for downloading, an exclamation mark for "look at me"
<directhex> (plus corresponding up arrow)
<aquarius> to what? there's no standard highlight colour, I can't think of any particular colour which means "there are updates", symbolic icons are monochrome, and I'm already worried about what it looks like with the radiance theme :)
<popey> blue
<popey> messaging menu
<aquarius> directhex, what happens if it needs looking at *and* it's downloading?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
<aquarius> I already have circle arrows for "stuff is syncing" and an exclamation point (plus red icon) for "there is an error"
<popey> arrow in it, and blue
<aquarius> popey, ya, but that's calling for attention. Is "there's an update" worthy of calling for attention?
<popey> yes
<popey> rarely enough
<ali1234> why aren't updates handled by the normal package manager?
<popey> they could be if it was packaged
<aquarius> ali1234, because nobody's packaged it yet
<ali1234> seems like the answer is obvious then
<aquarius> sure thing. Let me know when you've packaged it. :)
<ali1234> i don't even use it. why would i package it?
<ali1234> i don't even know what it is :)
<aquarius> you said the answer was obvious; I assumed you meant that it was clear that you should package it ;)
<aquarius> you can't have meant it was obvious that *I* should package it; I know nothing about debian packaging. :)
<ali1234> no, i mean the answer is you shouldn't worry about it
<popey> I'm inclined to agree. you shouldn't have to
<popey> that way lies windows nagware
<aquarius> the reason knowing about updates is important is that it's still moving really fast, and if you upgrade one node it breaks all the others :P
<ali1234> when there are updates it should pop up a fullscreen modal dialog saying "please package this application"
 * aquarius laughs!
<aquarius> I don't understand why you're not on the design team. I think they're missing an important voice. :)
<directhex> no no no, you're going about it all wrong
<directhex> it should not report that it has updates
<directhex> the standalone updater app, with its own tray icon, has that job
<aquarius> so, two suggestions so far: go blue (popey), overlay some sort of icon (directhex)
<directhex> this also works around your "how to show update AND sync icon" dilema
<ali1234> yes, bring back the update notifier tray icon
<directhex> the updater app can show a modal dialogue on boot!
<ali1234> removing it was stupid, now i have to deal with that weird popup thing stealing focus all the time
<ali1234> of course this won't help if it isn't packaged, but there you go
<popey> "all the time"
<popey> I never see it
<directhex> the updater app can also helpfully install a browser toolbar on every update, unless you tick the hidden tickbox
<ali1234> it pops up multiple times every day
<ali1234> it pops up after every time i do "sudo apt-get update"
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVwAodrjZMY lol @ the bot
<ali1234> and then it pops up again when "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" finishes, to tell me to reboot
<ali1234> and if i just close it, it pops up again after about 8 hours
<ali1234> also all of my indicators are broken - whenever i try to use them i get dbus permission errors, ever since i installed ubuntu-sdk
<ali1234> gnome-15 is also broken
<ali1234> looks like installing ubuntu-desktop^ and ubuntu-sdk turned my system into a locked-down mobile-style thing where i can't touch anything or it crashes
<ali1234> i think placekitten has banned me :)
<penguin42> oh dear, ff29 is rolling out to trusty - and changing the whole layout to users during a normal upgrade
<ali1234> nah, it's barely different
<ali1234> the biggest difference is the fugly tabs
<penguin42> ali1234: The hidden menu bar is the problem
<ali1234> it's not hidden tho
<penguin42> well, it certainly changed
<penguin42> ali1234: I bet that'll fox a lot of non-technical users
<aquarius> menu bar isn't hidden; the global menu is still just as it was before, according to chrisccoulson
<penguin42> aquarius: Bzzt - not here
<ali1234> yes, or if you use a real desktop, you get a real menu bar just as before
<ali1234> you have the unremovable hamburger thing as well
<penguin42> ok, on Kubuntu it changed
<aquarius> ah. I don't know about Kubuntu.
<ali1234> works fine on xfce
<penguin42> It's easy enough to find the preferences thing and reenable display of menubar, but it's going to fox non-techies
<ali1234> non-techies should not be using KDE
<chrisccoulson> i suspect these non-techies (ie, the other 400 million firefox users) probably won't care about the menubar when the functionality they use is accessible via the main menu panel
<penguin42> chrisccoulson: They'll need showing where it is
<aquarius> it's going to fox non-techies who are running Ubuntu and have installed an alternative desktop, yep. Why aren't Kubuntu distro-patching it, then? Ubuntu are, in order that it fits in with their desktop.
<penguin42> aquarius: Because it's not their fault - it's Firefox's/packagers for changing the default like that
<ali1234> xfce certainly haven't patched it and it has a menu bar by default - or at least if you upgrade your profile
 * penguin42 doesn't know this is only KDE - I'm just saying what I just hit as the upgrade hit here
<aquarius> chrisccoulson, I am mildly disappointed that we need to distro patch it and FF upstream aren't doing that -- I bet they are for Mac, for example.
<ali1234> i have even disabled all the ubuntu extensions
<ali1234> maybe if you have never ever toggled the menu bar on/off it will hide it by default
<chrisccoulson> aquarius, there's a bug open, but I just don't have time to drive our patch through their review process atm. somebody is more than welcome to pick that up (and mozilla are open to having that functionality included)
<aquarius> chrisccoulson, ah, they're happy to take it? Then fair play, and I apologise for doubting; if it's just going to take time to have that happen, that's cool with me
<penguin42> It's going to be a PITA for people with non-tech relatives/or labs full of stuff
<chrisccoulson> penguin42, it's nobodies fault. the UX design of firefox doesn't include a menubar, because it doesn't really need one. the only reason unity (and mac) have one is because there's a global menubar that isn't part of the app
<chrisccoulson> seriously, 400 million users are not going to be complaining that they no longer have a menubar that they didn't previously need to use anyway
<chrisccoulson> you're in a very small minority
<penguin42> <sigh>
<aquarius> man, it really isn't. It works on at least two major Ubuntu desktops without change; Firefox shows you a nice upgrade thing; it's now the same as Chrome; and saying "the menu is now here" is really not hard. My dad adapted to the window buttons being on the other side in seconds, he really did, despite everyone saying that naive users would now abandon their computers for abaci because of it
<ali1234> neither is saying "right click on the new menu thing and tick menu bar"
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i suspect it's not going to be a problem. chrome doesn't have a menubar, and I don't think IE11 does either (i could be wrong there)
<chrisccoulson> the small number of people who want to reenable it in firefox will be able to figure out how to
<ali1234> chrome is really horrible for webdev :/
<chrisccoulson> in fact, the firefox menubar has been disabled on non-linux platforms since firefox 4 anyway
<chrisccoulson> IIRC, they used the firefox button on the left-hand side instead
<ali1234> yeah. you could enable that in ff28 by hiding the menu bar, but now that's gone unless you use classic theme restorer
<penguin42> chrisccoulson: My concern here isn't the lack/presence of it - my concern is just the change
<penguin42> curious, I've been out all day and the number of from-internet surewall warnings has been much lower than previous days, but it seems to have started going back up after I got in and started browsing - I wonder if I'm blocking something useful or it's just something spots an active IP somehow
<diddledan> it's the NSA have spotted you're at home - they were attacking your phone while you were out
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> sorry, been watching snowden
<penguin42> yess....
<czajkowski>  whooo #36
<czajkowski> may have to call it a night!
<diddledan> o_O
<maps|wrk> hai
<diddledan> ello maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> hey diddledan
<maps|wrk> up to much?
<diddledan> right at this second I'm reading that harry split with his g/f (prince harry)
<diddledan> other than that nowt
<maps|wrk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b042m637/My_Brother_the_Terrorist/
<maps|wrk> watching that atm
<maps|wrk> pah barmy women, her son gets convicted of terrorist activities, trying to make bombs all that lot and she says he 'deserves' anothger chance
<maps|wrk> pff
<shauno> I'm glad there was no such thing when I was a kid.  because a lot of what I called "being a kid" would probably be called domestic terrorism these days
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> this guy was in his 20s and buying chemicals trying to make bombsa
<maps|wrk> think his mum struggles to understand tyhe meaning of the word 'deserves'
<diddledan> I've just got to the bit
<diddledan> "he spent all his time online" <-- that's me
<maps|wrk> yea and how he played games..yea because thats likely the cause
<maps|wrk> il scour iplayer see if theres anything else i fancy watching :)
<maps|wrk> hmm madagascar on there..not seen that
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-30
<diddledan> in my view: anyone who turns into a nutjob should be called a nutjob
<diddledan> and that's all I have to say on the matter :-p
<shauno> I'm just wary of labelling people on that vague a description.  "terrorist activities" can mean pretty much anything these days
<diddledan> obviously definitions of nutjob vary
<maps|wrk> sure it can
<maps|wrk> but these bunch be it white or asian are barmy
<shauno> eg, to the police, almost everything can fall under terrorist activities, because it means they get to use all the nice new super-vague powers they've been given
<maps|wrk> yea
<diddledan> shauno, like stopping our favourite astronaut for having a beard?!
<diddledan> oh it was his friend. I forgot
<diddledan> soon, my precious!
<diddledan> he's sporting a pretty impressive fur these days
<maps|wrk> how on earth is the call centre so popular
<maps|wrk> watching ep4..onlky because im at work;p
<diddledan> the adverts were enough to put me off that
<shauno> you're four episodes in and complaining people watch it?
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> im at work though shauno
<maps|wrk> so im half watching it
<maps|wrk> and i cant find much else on 4od/iplayer
<shauno> still a bit pot/kettle though
<maps|wrk> pah
<maps|wrk> recommend me something off iplayer/4od/chan5;p
<shauno> heh, I don't (can't) use them.  I tend to download whole series to take to work with me
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> i sometimes take my nexus7 with films/tv on
<maps|wrk> depends :)
<maps|wrk> hi Chaser
<maps|wrk> anyone been watching fargo?
<maps|wrk> e3 tionight
<shauno> mornings like this, I doubt the zombies could tell the difference
<mapps> morning
<mapps> sup shauno
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> hey MooDoo
<Myrtti> moin
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> morning diplo
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Mate shut down his VPS last night I'm guessing, lost my irssi conn and configs :/
<SuperMatt> :(
<SuperMatt> what you need is a small rackspace cloud server
<SuperMatt> :P
<nigelb> Or digital ocean
<nigelb> which is what I use for irc.
<SuperMatt> ooooor rackspace
 * nigelb looks at SuperMatt 
<nigelb> Do you work at Rackspace? :P
<SuperMatt> noooooooooooooyes
<diplo> nigelb, I now have a DO droplet, just not touched it in a few weeks
<diplo> Busy..
<diplo> SuperMatt, do them as cheap as DO ?
<diplo> I did check them out at one point I'm sure
<nigelb> SuperMatt: heh
<nigelb> Rackspace potentially has better routing.
<nigelb> DO has fairly crappy routing :)
<nigelb> which is fine for the cost.
<SuperMatt> I don't know what DO pricing is like, tbh
<diplo> cheap :P
<smittix> Morning
<mapps> one more tea then bed
<mapps> :D
<mapps> SuperMatt you run your own email server?
<diddledan> mapps stay awake with us that have to work during the day!
<diddledan> mapps like we do overnight with you :-p
<diddledan> (well, I do, and shauno sometimes does)
<mapps> pfffffff
<diddledan> email servers are a pain
<SuperMatt> mapps: yeah
<mapps> no chance...)
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i was hoping someone could point me in the direction ofa good tutorial
<smittix> Especially when they run exchange (:
<SuperMatt> though I route my email out via mailgun
<mapps> so i can just mess about and learn how to do it
<SuperMatt> I found the ubuntu community help page is good
<mapps> what do you use then dovecot/postfix what kinda thing
<SuperMatt> but I'll be serious: install webmin. Use that to turn on and off options and stuff until you find it works
<SuperMatt> dovecot and postfix, yes
<mapps> anything else?
<diddledan> dovecot and postfix are pretty much the only sane option IMO
<mapps> you dont need anything else for it to work?
<diddledan> I did run a dovecot/qmail for a while. qmail is esoteric
<mapps> i could try webmin but i think id have to compile from source as my apache install was manual? and when i installed zentyal it screwedthings up:)
<diddledan> for qmail to be secure/useful you need to patch it up the wazoo
<mapps> yea
<mapps> so all i need is dovecot and postfix?
<mapps> coolies
<jussi> webmin.... is that now working with ubuntu?
<jussi> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<SuperMatt> ah, fair enough
<mapps> ah
<diddledan> o_O
<mapps> so is that a yes..thats all i need?:D
<diddledan> what exactly is incompatible about the way it handles config files?
<mapps> someone answer me:(
<jussi> diddledan: I have actually no idea to be honest, and they may have fixored it...
<jussi> !-webmin
<lubotu3> webmin has no aliases - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 19:18:33 - last edited by tsimpson on 2011-03-03 21:32:45
<diddledan> sorry, mapps , yes postfix and dovecot will provide both incoming and outgoing support
<mapps> ive got another question ..maybe SuperMatt knows is it possible to change it from /~user on mod_userdir
<jussi> old factoid..
<mapps> so like http://ip/user
<mapps> no ~
<mapps> i couldn't see anywhere in the config
<diddledan> mapps you might want to add some extras for email scanning or routing to folders such as procmail (the latter) and spamassassin/clamav (the former)
<mapps> yea id read about clamav
<mapps> i was just a bit confused reading about MTA etc
<mapps> what exactly are dovecot/postfix
<diddledan> MTA is the part that postfix provides : "mail transfer agent" - the smtp side
<mapps> and what does dovecot provide
<SuperMatt> mapps: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MailServer
<SuperMatt> that's what I used
<diddledan> the other one is MDA I believe or Mail Delivery Agent which is a combo of dovecot for serving it out to the end-user's client and procmail for delivery-time filtering into specific folders
<SuperMatt> but you've got to have a good grasp of how mail works
<SuperMatt> in fact yes, before anyone sets up a mailserver *ever* they need to have a good grasp of how email works
<SuperMatt> I'm tired of explaining to people why their servers are sending out spam and why I simply can't unblock them from spam lists
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> SuperMatt I guess you get alot of that kind of request
<mapps> i understand email basics, smtp/imap/pop3 but not too knowledgable on MTA/MDA
<mapps> il read that page thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> yeah, I think that's the best place to start
<mapps> any idea about my 2nd question? which isnt really important
<mapps> its more just curious if its possible
<SuperMatt> what was the question?
<mapps> well ive got apache working with mod_userdir so http://frogs.zapto.org/~mark is it possible to make it /mark not ~/mark
<mapps> i know i could do some kinda redir or mod_rewrite i think
<diddledan> you could use mod_rewrite to silently convert from /foo to /~foo
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thats what i thought..so no way of doing it in the actual config file..i did check the config file and couldnt see anything
<diddledan> RewriteRule /([^~].*) /~$1
<diddledan> the rewrite rule can go in the config file
<mapps> you can change the userdir from public_html to something else..but i couldnt see any point..i guess most people just stick with public_html?
<diddledan> there's no requirement for rewrites to be controlled solely by .htaccess files
<mapps> yea
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> il read that ubuntu community page at work tomorrow
<mapps> :D
<bashc> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<awilkins> Wow, I've not upgraded either of my main work systems to Trusty yet. Something is clearly wrong, or I have too much work on.
<DJones> Does anybody know when "do-release-upgrade -d" will be available for testing 14.04 to 14.10 upgrades
<bashc> I may stay on 14.04 on the work machine, since its an LTS
<mapps> whats -d for
<diddledan> mapps - development version
<DJones> development release
<Myrtti> I've not yet upgraded a single computer 12.04 to 14.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haz bacon :-D
<nigelb> \o/
<mapps> nice TheOpenSourcerer
<brobostigon> yes please, :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had bacon :-(
<smittix> mmmm Bacon
<MooDoo> someone say bacon?
<DJones> Jono Bacon ?
<MooDoo> DJones: he's not a piece of meat you know ;)
<DJones> MooDoo: Probably won't fit between 2 slices of bread either
<brobostigon> depends how big the slices of bread are.
<foobarry> anyone successfully got evolution ews working with recent exchange/o365?
<smittix> Anyone noticed gnome-tweak-tool going crazy when you switch options?
<foobarry> oh wow it is actually working
<MooDoo> !bug
<lubotu3> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<MooDoo> oops sorry
<MooDoo> !bug 786325
<lubotu3> bug 786325 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Unable to change mouse cursor theme and size" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786325
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: sir, how the devil are you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: better than you if FB feed is anything to go by :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: raaaaa
<smittix> MooDoo ranting on facebook? He never does that :/
<MooDoo> smittix: shut it you or I'll victor meldrew your a**
<MooDoo> :D
<smittix> meh
<diddledan> hold your horses there, people have facebooks that I'm not stalking?!
<smittix> Anyone know if Spotify are still actively developing their Ubuntu client?
<diddledan> :-p
<smittix> heh
<smittix> I stalk you all on Google+
<diddledan> I really should g+ more
 * smittix goes back into the shadows.
<smittix> I like G+
<smittix> I need to connect with more like minded folk.
<diddledan> facebook is where my family are, and g+ is where the geeks are
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> if only I could get my family to move
<smittix> Yeah but then you'd have to get their friends to move and then their friends and then their friends.
<smittix> For them to stay heh
<diddledan> indeed
<MooDoo> I've tried closing facebook, but either get moaned at coz my family are on at, or the damn devil keeps making me re-open my account.
<shauno> I found a really easy way to get rid of fb
<shauno> just wait until a sibling has their first child.  you'll never open it again
<MooDoo> luckily my sis has already had her kids lol
<popey> i only have my family on fb, nobody else
<MooDoo> hmmm no there is a plan
<bashc> I follow the typical Facebook profile.  I was on it from the early days when it first was opened to the general public rather than just ivy league universities.  Stopped using it in 2010, closed account in 2011 then rejoined at the end of 2013
<popey> and only really use it for keeping in touch with them and seeing updates from kids school and dance class
<jussi> popey: thats a good idea
<popey> works for me
<bashc> my reasons for re-joining were similar to those given by James Vasile in a Freedombox talk
<smittix> I may do that. I wil delete MooDoo first.
<popey> wise
<smittix> :P
<popey> how many times have you deleted your fb account now MooDoo ? â»
<popey> (I have once)
<jussi> yeah, that MooDoo, shady character..
<diddledan> deleting MooDoo is always on my wishlist
<diddledan> :-p
<nigelb> MooDoo: THe best soluttion is to keep it deactivated
<nigelb> and activate only when/if needed.
<jussi> I have a big fat pimple. it hurts. this sucks.
<smittix> nigelb: When you need to stalk?
 * diddledan carries on cleaning his gun
 * TheOpenSourcerer is pondering deleting his LinkedIn account - beginning to really dislike them
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought about it.
<nigelb> But if you delete your linkedin account
<bashc> Facebook is the lowest on my social media food chain.  I use Friendica which posts to pump.io which posts to Twitter which posts to Facebook
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: I did that a few months ago, was getting tons of spam
<nigelb> those connection requests and it's reminders keep coming :(
<jussi> unfortunately linked in is a big part of my work...
<jussi> (I have a paid linked in account)
<smittix> TheOpenSourcerer: I constantly get recruitment agencies adding me and IT suppliers. Fills my inbox
<shauno> procmail vs linkedin \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do not like their Ts & Cs one iota.
<jussi> smittix: Im an IT supplier - can I add you? :P :P :P
<diddledan> I joined a load of linkedin groups related to my line-of-work. BIG N00B mistake!
<shauno> I junked it years ago.  it started off bad, and just got worse.  it's near useless now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> When you get bored read this: http://www.hrexaminer.com/why-i-killed-my-linkedin-account/
<popey> i deleted my linkedin
<MooDoo> me too
<jussi> smittix: actually, curiousity question - How would you actually _like_ prospective suppliers to contact you?
<diddledan> now I have emails daily with things highlighted along the lines of "in which country you are developer?" (exact phrasing!)
<nigelb> jussi: what does paying for it give you?
<popey> nigelb: nope, you can block the connection requests too
<nigelb> popey: OH. HOW?
<popey> link at the bottom
<popey> i have had to do it 3 times, once per main email address I use
<jussi> nigelb: seeing full profiles, who looks at your profile and such things. oh and inmails to contact people outside your network
<smittix> jussi: To be honest I've never thought about it. I like to approach them first I guess.
<popey> i never see them now
<nigelb> I never had those work.
<nigelb> I keep unsubscribing.
 * smittix is trying steam on ubuntu for the first time.
<popey> there's an extra "never send me this crap" button
 * popey hugs steam
<TheOpenSourcerer> I rarely use LN and really think people can find me if they need to.
<shauno> I've got rid of most of them.  it's just the "foo is still waiting for your reply" that they send using the user's email address rather than their own
<jussi> smittix: so I guess the question is then, how do you find new suppliers?
<TheOpenSourcerer> As I can find them
<popey> yeah, the whole social referral thing is overrated
<smittix> jussi: I hunt them down on the interwebz
<smittix> jussi: But I like to go with recommendations from people I know.
<MooDoo> smittix: works fine, downloaded a few games last night for it :D
<shauno> the referral thing went down the pan when they started fishing for recommendations on your behalf.  and then your friends feel obligated to fill them out because they think *you* are asking *them*, rather than just the systel trolling them
<smittix> MooDoo: Is CSS available?
<jussi> smittix: hrm, ok.
<MooDoo> smittix: I think that's the one I've downloaded...
<MooDoo> smittix: I play css all the time :d
<smittix> MooDoo: That and BF2 is all I ever play.
<MooDoo> smittix: I'll have to come onto to a server with you so you can see how bad I play :)
<diddledan> I play CSS and HTML and PHP
<smittix> MooDoo: haha
 * smittix looks at diddledan 
<popey> hmm, prison architect is only Â£6.79 now, was Â£14.99
<MooDoo> diddledan: is HTML POV?
<diddledan> lol
<popey> I've recently been playing OpenSpades a lot
<popey> so much fun
<diddledan> is that like hearts?
<MooDoo> diddledan: and how do you strafe in php?  <?php strafe(); ?>  ???
<popey> no idea
<diddledan> otherwise known these days as "the windows xp card game"
<popey> no
<popey> a cross between minecraft and tf2
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> voxel based shooting and destruction
<diddledan> close
<popey> its very funny
 * diddledan googles
<diddledan> can one google with bing?
 * smittix faints
<jussi> hrm, anyone know a decent "red alert" or "starcraft" type game for linux?
<jussi> the age of empires clone is rubbish
<diddledan> jussi: openra
<davmor2> MooDoo: No you press shift and the arrow keys like any other 1st person death trap you play
<jussi> diddledan: is it actually decent+
<smittix> jussi: I'd like to know that also, I loved Red Alert "Cha' Ching"
<diddledan> tanya was a hottie
<smittix> aye
<jussi> :D yep
<diddledan> jussi: http://openra.res0l.net/ <-- it's a direct clone
<jussi> diddledan: yeah, its already installing... :P
<smittix> Battlefield 2 isn't available :(
<smittix> jussi: Downloaded the package?
<MooDoo> smittix: that's the downside, lots of windows games aren't available.
<jussi> smittix: yes
<smittix> MooDoo: HL2 DM is though w00t
<smittix> Let's see how my Optimus performs, eek.
<diddledan> jussi, for more recent fare I've been meaning to play "wargame: airland battle" and "wargame european escalation" but don't know whether they're available on loonicks yet
<jussi> diddledan: Im not much of a gamer really, I do like red alert and heroes3 :D
<smittix> Someone should make a Valhalla clone for linux
<smittix> If there isn't one already
<jussi> oh and civ3, but my CD of that went missing :(
<davmor2> you know that feeling when you wake up more tired than when you went to sleep, If you've had that for a few days and haven't flown anywhere that is a bad thing right
<diddledan> davmor2: welcome to my life
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've had that for 5.5 years, it's called children
<smittix> MooDoo: HEH
<directhex> openra doesn't do the single-player campaign, which diminishes its usefulness
<MooDoo> davmor2: the more sleep I have the worse I feel
<shauno> last I heard they're working on that. they've stuffed lua in there sideways so they can script the missions
<MooDoo> davmor2: I stick to about 5.5 hours
<directhex> in terms of strategy games, look at http://store.steampowered.com/search/?snr=1_4_4__12&term=#category1=998&os=linux&genre=Strategy&sort_order=ASC&page=1
<shauno> I stick to 1-3 hours sleep, and then just don't wake up on saturday
<smittix> Dota 2 is supposed to be pretty decent
<MooDoo> shauno: I'd love that but with a 2.5 year old and a 5.5 year old, it doesn't work like that lol
<popey> someone keeps wanting to trade with me on steam
<smittix> Oh no, Goat Simulator isn't available either. Don't know what I'm going to do down.
<popey> offering me 4 TF2 things for a pair of earbuds
<MooDoo> smittix: nethack
<smittix> s/down/now
<directhex> goat simulator port has been contracted, but not completed
<jussi> you know, its really fun to make up your own names for acronyms when you arent familiar with them...
<jussi> like for me, DOTA becomes "DEATH of the Apple" :P
<davmor2> jussi: Team Fortress 2 at a guess
<jussi> davmor2: TF2? Tragic Fails 2? :P :P
<davmor2> jussi: not Total Fubar 2 then?
<jussi> ooh, that one is good!
<jussi> :D
<jussi> Totally F#Â¤KED 2? :P
<jussi> errr... that may have sounded a little too NSFW.... maybe we should move on...
<davmor2> jussi: man your spelling of Thanked there is too street for me :)
<davmor2> Totally Fanked 2
<jussi> hah!
<diddledan> what's wrong with regularly FSCKing your disks?
<smittix> Total Freecall 2 - Open Source version of the hit movie
<davmor2> diddledan: but this is Totally FSCKED 2 how much fscking can happen till a disk is totalled
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> smittix is that an 0800 memory service?
<smittix> haha
<smittix> 2 weeeeeeks
<bashc> I think if problems occur during FSCK you can lose data
<diddledan> she was in the remake, too
<bashc> so use FSCK sparingly
<smittix> diddledan: I refuse to watch it.
<diddledan> there were no aliens
<smittix> No mutants?
<diddledan> nope
<smittix> Please tell me Quatto was in it?
<directhex> popey, earbuds are one of the four standard barter currencies in the tf2 economy
<diddledan> he was, but he wasn't in anyone's belly
<smittix> diddledan: That's not good enough
<popey> directhex: what does that mean? â»
<directhex> earbuds are worth 18.5 keys.
<popey> he said he was collecting for a charity of some bs
<directhex> yeah, that's BS
<directhex> buds are one of the most valuable standard barter items. converted price is about 35USD
<popey> heh
<foobarry> 107.95 up front and 2.25 pm for whole year of phone and broadband \o/
<popey> directhex: he's offering me money now â»
<directhex> there are three standard units of exchange
<directhex> "buds" are the apple earbuds given to early users of steam on mac. because the supply is fixed, they are usable as a commodity trade item.
<popey> he offered 20 eur â»
<directhex> "keys" are purchased for cash, and needed to open occasional "crate" rewards from the game. you can buy them for Â£1.49 each from valve
<directhex> "ref" is "refined metal", it's the basic input material for crafting tf2 items. people need ref in order to create specific desired items. it's the lowest value common trade currency. it's about 145 ref to 1 bud
<popey> he's offering paypal money
<popey> which I guess he'll pull back once the sale is done?
<directhex> "bill's hat" has fallen out of fashion as a currency
<directhex> popey, he might. might not. â¬20 is undervaluing it, it might be a legit offer where the only scamming is offering you 20% under its value
<MooDoo> damn keyboard
<directhex> popey, trading for steam games is safer, if you have games you want
<smittix> Awesome, HL2DM runs perfect.
<popey> yeah, wise
<popey> was gonna ask for 50USD â»
 * popey looks on his wishlist instead
<smittix> MooDoo: When we doing this CSS game
<popey> smittix: is it you and MooDoo behind http://www.winstructions.net/ ?
<MooDoo> smittix: dunno yet, I'll try and get on later this evening, I'll message you later about ti
<smittix> popey: Yeah
<popey> no news for a month.. no news is good news!
<MooDoo> popey: yes it was a side project :D
<smittix> popey: I know :(
<MooDoo> popey: I think we're getting sidetracked abit with ubuntu stuff lol
<popey> you should put up an article about this microsoft event where they're showing off their Linux phones â» http://www.eventbrite.com/e/mobilemonday-tampere-presents-arcticevening-and-nokia-x-tickets-11399737923
<directhex> popey, it's a $35 item. take a little less since you're not actually interested in the item - but not a lot less since that's just not needed
<popey> directhex: kk
<smittix> popey: Had you bookmarked the site or something?
<MooDoo> wonder if we can get the founders of omg ubuntu to do one omg windows lol
<popey> smittix: no, i just remembered it
<smittix> ahh
<popey> well, my browser did when I typed "win"
<MooDoo> brain the site of a planet has our popey ;()
<popey> and this pain in the diodes down my left hand side
<smittix> popey: I have been concentrating on linux and smittix.co.uk
<popey> how about omgsurface
<MooDoo> omg-extreame-ironing.co.uk :)
<smittix> OMGNostartmenu
<smittix> I do quite like Windows 8 though
<popey> i have considered setting up a site with just ubuntu phone news and stuff on it. maybe some videos
<MooDoo> darn it, I wish windows would mark text like it does in a putty shell lol
<smittix> I didn't care that they had changed to the start screen/dash.
<foobarry> popey: called phabulous?
<MooDoo> popey: do it :)
<smittix> popey: Ubuntu Mobile would be good
<smittix> for tabs too?
<MooDoo> damn that reminds me I have to send in the form for ubuntu.technology
<popey> foobarry: yeah â»
<MooDoo> darn darn trademanrk agreement.
<foobarry> moobuntu ?
<diddledan> moob.. untu?
<diddledan> ... of manboobs
 * diddledan examines his own
<MooDoo> ew ew ew
<diddledan> :-p
<davmor2> tmi
<smittix> he's still examining them.
 * smittix looks away
<smittix> Does anyone know of an indicator or something to tell me which graphics card steam is using?
<diddledan> smittix: if it is smooth then it's using the ubercard, otherwise it's using intel god that's poor (IGP)
<smittix> :|
<davmor2> smittix: you on an optimus laptop or something?
<smittix> davmor2: Yeah
<davmor2> smittix: how do you have it setup with nvidia-prime or bumblebee?
<smittix> Whatever the default is.
<smittix> I haven't touched any of that yet.
<davmor2> smittix: then you are just using intel
<smittix> davmor2: Should I install nvidia-prime then?
<smittix> It installed an Nvidia driver earlier though
<davmor2> smittix: you need to install nvidia-331 and nvidia-prime, then you can open nvidia settings and select it under prime-options or something like that
<smittix> davmor2: Ta, will check it out
<MooDoo> come now davmor2 don't pretend you know what you're doing!
<smittix> At the minute im trying to get .NEF files to preview meh
<davmor2> MooDoo: I had to test it for the dev so this one I do know :)  For a change
 * MooDoo faints
 * smittix steals MooDoo's wallet.
<MooDoo> smittix: google wallet, so it's virtual do there ner ner ner ner ner
<davmor2> smittix: oh you collect moths do you
 * smittix points to diddledan 
<davmor2> oh I do like the new apt it is much nicer than apt-get the tab complete missing is a pain but the other features are really nice
<diddledan> hmm?
 * diddledan looks up
<davmor2> smittix: PRIME profiles infact
<diddledan> sorry, I was.. well, moobs..
<MooDoo> ew ew ew
<diddledan> :-p
<bashc> new apt?  is it shiny?
<popey> it has a nice progress bar!
<davmor2> popey, bashc: it does nice highlighting and list/search too
<shauno> here's a bad sign.  timing page load times.  went off and made coffee.  it's still going.
<diddledan> 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi ..
<diddledan> shauno, measure it in cups
<shauno> lol, I wish.  I'm at 15 minutes and counting
<diddledan> shauno, how come it didn't timeout
<shauno> the wonders of javascript
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> are you sure it's actually doing something rather than spinning for the sake of it?
<shauno> nope.  I'm pretty convinced it doesn't exist.  but dev have assured us it's been "fixed" and it does load.
<diddledan> step 1) display spinny thing. step 2) try load a resource. step 3) fail. step 4) ... step 5) profit? step x) were we meant to do something with that spinny thing?
<popey> Interesting, Steam update.. it now says "SteamOS + Linux" in the dropdown, not just Linux anymore
<diddledan> shauno, when this coffee's done, set a screen recorder running and hit reload. go make a coffee. 30 minutes later hit stop on the screen recorder and send the video to the dev
<diddledan> at the least it'll make him sit through 30 minutes of cr*p
<shauno> 30 minutes might not be long enough.  it takes 68 seconds to load an account containing one entry.  I'm trying to pull up a corp-sized account.  if it scales linear, it should be loaded by time I go home
<diddledan> oh god
<diddledan> I need food
<diddledan> feed me!
<diddledan> sudo feed me?
<DJones> Roll on 4:30 pm tomorrow, 4 day weekend
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> friday isn't a bang holiday, again, is it?
<DJones> I wish it was, going for a cortisone injection in my elbow
<diddledan> oh :-(
<MooDoo> diddledan: not friday, monday is.
 * MooDoo finishes at 11am tomorrow then back Tuesday
<diddledan> part timers
<davmor2> MooDoo: sciver
<MooDoo> davmor2: studying
<davmor2> MooDoo: now you're just using teachers excuses for the 6 week holiday
<MooDoo> pmsl....I've got an exam on the 16th May
<DJones> MooDoo: I'm tempted to swap you a cortisone injection for the studying
<MooDoo> DJones: it's a microsoft exam, both equally as painful ;)
<DJones> :) Ouch
<MooDoo> DJones: installing and configuring windows 2012 server.
<diplo> Ive done that course MooDoo
<diplo> Never took the exam
<MooDoo> diplo: cool :)
<DJones> MooDoo: In that case, I won't swap, I'll stick with the injection
<MooDoo> DJones:  :)
<smittix> Why is it when I make a picture my desktop background it copies it to 'Wallpapers' and messes up my OCD file structure.
<MooDoo> user error
<smittix> Try it Mr MooDoo
<davmor2> smittix: because when you tell it to be a wallpaper it's a wallpaper ;)
<MooDoo> not at home at the moment,
<smittix> I have /home/wallpapers/scenery I right click a image in scenery -> make background and it copies itselft to /home/wallpapers/
<DJones> I quite like the auto-changing wallpapers in 14.04
<popey> ooh, a jolla handset has arrived at my abode
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> what's one of those sir?
<popey> a phone, innit
<daftykins> but from whom!
<popey> Jolla
<Myrtti> derp :-D
<daftykins> ok i suppose i was more after a site with specs/pics XD
<popey> jolla
<daftykins> but failed to actually express that accurately
<popey> .com
<popey> â»
<daftykins> XD
<DJones> popey: How many phones have you got now, at this rate you'll be able to open a phone shop
<daftykins> popey: for that you're getting a cat pic
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/posxtzrtt9t4oro/IMG_20140430_130430.jpg
<daftykins> "well harro there neighbour"
<popey> DJones: sadly it's not for me
<popey> 5
<DJones> Ah well, I'll hold off on registering popeyphone.com then
<Myrtti> I've got Little Miss Purry in my lap again
<Myrtti> purr purr
<MooDoo> soft kitty warm kitty little ball of fur
<diddledan> I want a little miss purry
 * diddledan pouts
 * diddledan stomps his feet
<Myrtti> she smells of fish
<jussi> !pony | diddledan
<jussi> awww
<diddledan> lol
<jussi> !pony-#ubuntu-offtopic | diddledan
<lubotu3> diddledan: PONY! Ponyponyponyponypony! http://windowseat.ca/images/monster_pony.jpg - NO PONIES FOR YOU!
<diddledan> dear god what did they do to her?!
<jussi> hehe
<diddledan> that's going on facebook
<shauno> I assume the ! negates, so that's simply the negative-pony
<diddledan> lol
<jussi> ...
<daftykins> Myrtti: :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/shlz5xupyzg811m/IMG_20140430_132931.jpg
<daftykins> someone's enjoying the sun
<shauno> sun?  summer was last weekend :(
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> perhaps in your corner ;)
<daftykins> meant to rain from 5pm though
<popey> awww
<popey> my two are almost certainly on the kids beds
<popey> sky on sams, salem on sophies
<smittix> My cat kind of acts weird when I take his photo - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mav27vczh0g4e6c/DSCF1390.JPG
<smittix> I should have called him Derp
<shauno> your cat spends too much time on reddit
<smittix> heh
<daftykins> that is a face alright
<smittix> Yeah with the look on his face in that picture I guess he's been in /r/wtf
<daftykins> "here Tom" ... "WAT!?"
<smittix> He's a good cat though
<DJones> Ooh, Bob Hoskins has died
<daftykins> what :(
<smittix> DJones: Source?
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27224995
<DJones> smittix: BBC website
<smittix> :(
<jussi> who was bob hoskins?
<DJones> jussi: Who framed woger wabbit actor
<shauno> he wasn't roger rabbit, in who framed roger rabbit
<jussi> oh
 * Myrtti tries to upload a photo
<smittix> sad news
<smittix> He was also Smee from "Hook"
<DJones> Just looking at imdb, he was Mario in the Super Mario Bros film
<smittix> DJones: Oh yeah, forgot about that one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Always remember him in "The Long Good Friday". Great film.
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/YgWuMpuVkE2
<daftykins> awww
<daftykins> i love the little white chest bit, an old fave cat of mine had that
<smittix> daftykins Tom can take a decent photo too heh https://www.dropbox.com/s/40v4ywkf6h4jsgr/DSC_4146%20copy2.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> srs bsns
<smittix> heh
<daftykins> anyone seen these adverts on sites? someone in another chan just linked me, totally SFW - http://adultcatfinder.com/
<daftykins> first time i had a seriously 'wtf' moment
<smittix> haha
<smittix> I'm sticking that on my blog
<Myrtti> then the official comic relief, princess' sibling Pepe thinks he's a dog.
<Myrtti> favourite toy of all time is a soda bottle top, or a plastic twist top of any kind, that he brings to anyone and asks it to be thrown so he can fetch it.
<daftykins> :D
<smittix> Tom likes biting peoples toes
<daftykins> 'fetch' with any pets at my parents place always meant 'throw and never see again'
<Myrtti> no, he literally brings the bottle top over, drops it on your lap, or next to you in your bed, or better yet if you have a plate, on your plate, mews, and if there's something he can do it on, does the whole 'duck retriever dog' pose and mews again if you're too slow to throw the top for him
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/06yr18f57620t9v/IMG_20140430_140324.jpg
<daftykins> shall soon be wrestling with this as i can go and get my replacement drive shortly
<diddledan> daftykins, hotswappable?
<shauno> diddledan: it does work!  1 hr 45 minutes.
<diddledan> shauno: I think that's stretching the definition a bit
<diddledan> so, how many cups?
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah
<diddledan> shauno, two cups of coffee and a soup?
<daftykins> diddledan: shame i don't have a proper enclosure, but 6 disks and the nicest i've seen (and bought for others) are 5 disk >_<
<diddledan> dang
<foobarry> my voicemail had disabled itself. does that after 60 days *LAME*
<foobarry> giffgaff fail
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shauno> as much as I hate morning shifts, it's kinda nice to get home at 3pm
<shauno> 'lo bigcalm
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: :)
<diddledan> shauno no fair
<shauno> well, that's how I feel when my alarm goes off at 5am
<diddledan> shauno, but then I guess I didn't have to sit on my thumb waiting for a 1hr45min javascript call
<shauno> not the least productive thing I've done on the clock
<MooDoo> shauno: 7 - 3;30 for me, it's nice isn't it
<foobarry> will g+ allow screen sharing?
<MooDoo> hangouts you mean?
<MooDoo> https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1660627?hl=en-GB
<foobarry> neither of us have to install stuff locally?
<MooDoo> not sure never tried it
<foobarry> have a user who is failing to login with keys in putty although it works when i try it
<smittix> foobarry: I think you will have to install a browser plugin for hangouts
<foobarry> hmm
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: ?
<foobarry> i just installed a kde app :(
<foobarry> 120mb of dependencies.
<foobarry> sorry to my PC
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: rackspace are sending me a tshirt, you  all rock
<SuperMatt> we did that? Why?
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<SuperMatt> who did it, I need to make it known
 * foobarry wants a tee
<daftykins> just been to the post office to get my new HDD
<daftykins> desperately in need of this 1TB disk to pop in my array to replace a dead one
<daftykins> what did amazon do?
<penguin42> was it there and in one piece?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogvzz7615wrvwz0/yHWSmQJVfm
<daftykins> check out the label in pic #3 - WD10EFRX
<penguin42> damn, you seem to have some free bytes
<daftykins> and yet now i'm scuppered 'cause they'll all be wasted in my array >_<
<penguin42> no no, it's really a ploy to get you to order a bunch of new 2TB drives
<daftykins> it is isn't it :(
<daftykins> plus now i get this one a third off
<daftykins> so they're saying "g'wan buy 5 more"
<daftykins> that's a BAD amazon!
<daftykins> i feel really weird about wanting to actually complain i got more than i bargained for...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> HOW DARE YOU GIVE ME MOAR
<daftykins> exactly :(
<diddledan> at least it's the right traffic-light
<diddledan> i.e. red
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> SHTAP dafty, this array rebuild ish not ready yet
<diddledan> mm tea
<diddledan> alan_g|tea your round
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> my milks off though so don't use that
<daftykins> had a funky gut upon getting into bed last night =|
<smittix> Reddit is a strange creature, you get downvoted to oblivion for helping people. heh
<daftykins> sounnds like #ubuntu
<smittix> /r/Linux is not a nice place heh
<mapps> hello
<mapps> i have returned
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> mornign
<mapps> time for some more tv:D
<diddledan> I watched three movies last night
<diddledan> including world war Z
<daftykins> three!
<daftykins> i wasn't fond of World War Z
<diddledan> I found wwz rushed the finish
<diddledan> it was great until suddenly it was over
<diddledan> at least with resident evil the apocalypse has eeked out 4 movies
<diddledan> and there's still more to go
<diddledan> btw, alice: totally hot
<daftykins> wow i just spoke with amazon live chat
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i enjoyed world war z tbh
<daftykins> they're ok for me to keep the 2TB disk
<daftykins> O_O
<mapps> what pther films diddledan
<daftykins> mapps: check out my 1TB WD Red order from Amazon - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogvzz7615wrvwz0/yHWSmQJVfm
<diddledan> mapps, resident evil (the latest one) :-p and priest
<mapps> hmm think i seen res evil
<mapps> priest..good?
<diddledan> I enjoyed it
<diddledan> fusion of gothic with Wild West
<diddledan> gothic - vampires
<diddledan> wildwest - gunslinging deserty types
<mapps> ok qyestion
<mapps> http://radio.betfair.com/
<mapps> anyone know how i could make that work on iphone?
<daftykins> i would feel dirty permitting Apple talk in here ;)
<mapps> well pretend ts not:)
<diddledan> mapps looks like it's windows media
<mapps> yea
<mapps> or flash
<diddledan> it opened in flip4mac on my mac
<mapps> is there anyway i could open it on ios??
<diddledan> there _might_ be an app which can open it but I wouldn't bet on it
<daftykins> hmm here we go, seeing some addresses in the sauce
<daftykins> ah no just ads by the looks
<mapps> :((
<daftykins> i don't have the plugin installed to see what windows media might do
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> but it might give you a .asx with a stream URL in
<mapps> works witth flash but thats no good eh
<daftykins> not for trying to thieve a source URL nah
<mapps> anyone watch marvel agents of shield?
<daftykins> nah, been told it got better though
<diddledan> I saw the first ep
<diddledan> then forgot about it
<diddledan> I think I've got it all on sky+ though
<daftykins> sub TV diddledan, i'm shocked!
<diddledan> yeah, I suck
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> ugh saying no to getting that disk swapped has kinda locked me into the idea of either selling it for profit or buying another 5
<diddledan> another 5!!!!!!!!!!1!
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> yeah :D
<diddledan> then sell the old ones
<daftykins> 12 port controller, 6 x 1TB right now
<daftykins> nah half have been spinning for 6 years
<daftykins> they're worth 0
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> could maybe donate to my old college
<diddledan> yeah, if they're all 6y/o then it might be worth a phased replacement anyway
<daftykins> Â£302.90 for another 5
<mapps> what machine u got them in
<daftykins> mapps: did you see my pics of them sending me the wrong thing?
<mapps> nopes
<mapps> i remember you saying
<daftykins> i just got a 2TB WD Red instead of a 1TB
<mapps> ya
<mapps> but what machine u got all these disks in:D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogvzz7615wrvwz0/yHWSmQJVfm
<daftykins> just a custom server
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/06yr18f57620t9v/IMG_20140430_140324.jpg
<mapps> no pic loaded hm
<daftykins> first or second link?
<mapps> Preview failed.
<mapps> first
<diddledan> what do the two mobo headers go to?
<diddledan> sata**
<daftykins> sounds like a prog tried to view it instead of the browser
<daftykins> diddledan: the mobo ones or the 3ware controller card ones?
<mapps> what cpu/ram/case u got :) just curious
<diddledan> daftykins the mobo
<daftykins> got a 120GB samsung 840 vanilla OS + VM disk in there
<daftykins> and a 2TB downloads disk
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> mapps: i shall share in a mo, it's not terribly exciting. just gonna nip to the coffee shop
<mapps> oke:)
<daftykins> oook
<daftykins> so it's an old Coolermaster Stacker case with an Asus P5KC mobo (DDR2 and 3 LGA775) with a Pentium dual-core E2180 2GHz, 4GB RAM...
<mapps> ah cool
<daftykins> 3ware 9650SE 12 port SATA RAID controller with 6 x 1TB WD Re's, aforementioned 2TB and SSD
<daftykins> put the array together back in Jan 2008 as an upgrade from the prior 8 x 250GB
<penguin42> The 3wares were always the best for reliability/doing the right thing - but can you get any write bandwidth from it
<mapps> i need to build a new server at some point..no idea on motherboards/cpus anymore, any i get will be fine for a raidcard anyway?
<daftykins> penguin42: i can't say i've really got any metrics to confirm, only tend to copy onto it from the Downloads drive, so it's only really reliability i go for
<daftykins> naturally it's more than enough to saturate gigabit LAN
<daftykins> mapps: well as you would see if the pic link worked for you (try again? :) ) the RAID controller is in a second PCI-E 16x slot, though it itself is only an 8x card
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i just wanna build a nice quiet server to sit in the corner and chug away..my current machines too loud..and id keep that for testing anyway
<daftykins> my old card was a PCI-X
<diddledan> I want an HP microserver
<diddledan> they looks the business
<daftykins> they always seemed tiny in pics to me, like they couldn't take many disks
<mapps> but they can im guessing by what you say
<mapps> LD
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> http://www.ebuyer.com/616877-hp-proliant-microserver-g7-n54l-1p-4gb-u-non-hot-plug-sata-150w-ps-744900-421
<bigcalm> Aww, I was hoping it would be on offer again
<diddledan> no such luck :-(
<daftykins> mapps: mine does a few things like run a web server VM, another VM that this IRC client runs from... yada yada
<daftykins> so a choice might depend on what you want it to do
<mapps> so recommend me something thatll do for my beasty but quiet server :)
<daftykins> well knowing the use-case would possibly point at better choices
<mapps> what can u fit in the hp..i cant tell
<daftykins> mine doesn't even support Intel VT for my VMs yet it still runs them fine
<bigcalm> I bought my last HP Proliant microserver from Servers Plus: http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers
<bigcalm> Sometimes they have cash back offers
<mapps> basically just a machine thatll sit there and store all my films/tv/music and a few other things ..it wont run any servers http/vpn etc ..vpn/http/squid will be run on my old machine
<mapps> thisll just be storage and possibly used to download from or to...#
<daftykins> you might even be better off just getting a Synology NAS then
<daftykins> but a full computer is muchly tempting since then you can run anything you want
<mapps> yea id prefer to be able to do what i want
<mapps> maybe use xbmc who knows mythtv etc
<daftykins> low power i-series intels may well be at a premium, lets see
<daftykins> mapps: so that definitely doesn't work in your browser? https://www.dropbox.com/s/06yr18f57620t9v/IMG_20140430_140324.jpg
<daftykins> i can pop it up elsewhere if not
<mapps> sec
<mapps> aha now it did
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i was thinking some kinda low power setup maybe 4-6gb ram ...4x2tb ...just dunno case/cpu/
<mapps> and then just run ubuntu server no gui needed
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> hang on i have some geek pr0n you'd appreciate
<mapps> an i5 or something would be too overpowered?
<mapps> dont think its needed
<daftykins> yeah definitely
<daftykins> but i was wondering if a low power i3 might exist
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> Â£70 exc VAT on ebuyer for an i3 4130
<mapps> what case though? those micro ones are nice - i used to like those shuttle pcs..had a load of them at uni in one of the rooms
<daftykins> hrmm 54W TDP
<daftykins> could definitely do way better than that power wise
<daftykins> perhaps even one of these funky AMD APUs might be good power wise
<daftykins> well disk space would be your controlling factor there
<mapps> i cant see how many hdds those hps can take..u sure it says on that site
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i was just saying those shuttles were nicep
<mapps> ;p
<daftykins> it wasn't my link but i don't remember nah
<diddledan> the HP micros can take 4x3.5in
<mapps> hm
<mapps> thats not too bad
<mapps> could chuck 4x2tb in
<daftykins> i'd recommend keeping your OS separate from storage volumes though
<daftykins> sadly with my current array i'm stuck in Windows land as it's an NTFS volume
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i didnt even think about that
<mapps> good point
<mapps> could us
<mapps> just get a 5th and partition it and that
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j4jb3sxx1thyegp/disks.jpg
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> :)
<mapps> help me with the cpu/mobo and case daftykins you know better than me
<mapps> i dont really know what kinda cpu to look for..just know i5/i7 isnt needed for this..its just gonna be a storage vault
<daftykins> lovely icybox enclosures
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xz6g491uau5uqr4/icyboxes.png
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> okie dokie shall continue browsing
<daftykins> the above is a clients 12TB RAID6
<mapps> nice
<daftykins> currently has...  2TB free
<diddledan> hah, I guessed right
<mapps> ive read about people using atom cpus ..but dont think thats appropriate imo
<daftykins> the very latest atoms might not be too bad, but my HTPC is an atom and...
<daftykins> i would not want to do much with that :D
<mapps> heh
<mapps> then what freaking cpu daftykins;p no i5/atom
<daftykins> alright alright! :P
<mapps> newest generation of celerons?
<mapps> i only used a celeron years back when they sucked bad
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Processors-Intel/subcat/Socket-LGA-1150-Haswell?limit=30&sort=price%20ascending&page=1
<daftykins> that G1820 is meant to be quite capable
<daftykins> with onboard graphics now you can avoid having a card at all, too
<mapps> yea
<mapps> would be no need really
<daftykins> (mine just has some cheap ass Â£15 passively cooled thing)
<daftykins> i of course use it via RDP so it's headless
<mapps> 31.88 thats cheap
<mapps> and what mobo?
<daftykins> still a 53W TDP on that though
<mapps> is that a big deal?
<daftykins> well it's technically only what it pushes max load
<diddledan> why do I like my typing to make a lot of noise at times
<diddledan> I love pounding on keys
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> can be satisfying
<diddledan> the apple wired keyboard is pretty good for that
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/398830-amd-a4-5300-3-4ghz-socket-fm2-4mb-l2-cache-retail-boxed-processor-ad5300okhjbox
<Laney> hope you don't have to share the space with other people :(
<daftykins> 65W TDP 0o
<diddledan> I sometimes hit the enterkey with menace when I think I've fixed something that's been bugging me and I'm confirming the git commit
<diddledan> complete with flaring hand over my shoulder
<daftykins> mapps: only trouble with setting up some proper storage, is it's a commitment to keep buying and re-doing every few years... like the situation i'm in now where my disks are old and could continue flaking out at any moment
<mapps> http://www.ebuyer.com/546300-asus-h81m-c-socket-1150-dvi-8-channel-hd-audio-matx-motherboard-h81m-c thatd be good enough daftykins?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but its better than having stuff all over the place on several diff machines
<mapps> and hdds
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> deffo
<daftykins> hilariously when i built my new array
<mapps> that mobo good enough? cheap as chips
<diddledan> daftykins, plug the new one in immediately!
<daftykins> the old one got its' very first bad sector the very same day
<daftykins> i lost exactly one TV episode
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> thats ok then
<daftykins> that *is* a very cheap board
<daftykins> very few SATA ports
<mapps> hm
<daftykins> you need to think about how you'd handle the storage
<daftykins> my controller card was Â£Â£Â£
<daftykins> but i like that when the you know what and the fan meet, my hair stays quite intact on my head
<daftykins> i think a lack of experience on my part would make dealing with software RAID under Linux a very stressful time
<mapps> yea i imagine itd be a pain for me too
<mapps> so i should prob chse a diff board
<daftykins> depends on your budget
<daftykins> a lot of these guys run those HP microservers so there wouldn't be any shortage of assistance for the software RAID aspect i guess
<mapps> well dont wanna spend more than necessary..as i say this is just basically a big storage thing
<daftykins> yeah, if you combine all the disks into one volume you'd want some fault tolerance though
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> unless you wanna just use the 4 x 2TB as separate volumes
<mapps> so you mean like have 4x2tb and use 4tb of it as mirror
<mapps> ?
<daftykins> RAID5 would lose one disk to parity, so 4 x 2TB would come out as 6TB usable
<daftykins> but any one disk can fail and it'll keep going until you replace it
<daftykins> but a second failure would be game over
<mapps> but id know about first and could replace
<mapps> ?
<mapps> how many SATA ports should i look at getting..surely il err need a raid card
<daftykins> yeah i'm sure even software RAID screams at you in logs a fair amount
<daftykins> my 3ware controllers auto verify every Friday night, so i get emails to confirm
<daftykins> amusingly i'd just fixed mines email config when i got the email showing a disk was going :)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> nice
<mapps> how many sata ports you think
<daftykins> well i always aimed for double the ports i was gonna use
<daftykins> then in future you can add more
<daftykins> first time i did it i had 8 disks on an 8 port, time came for a new array and i was screwed. had to drop Â£350+ on a new controller just so i could migrate the data from one to the other
<daftykins> now, i have 6 on a 12 so i can buy another 6 disks and copy over
<daftykins> ooh i just realised i know someone with a 1TB spare
<daftykins> 8D
<mapps> hmm but u said that mobo doesnt have many ports..does that matter if im getting a raid card?
<daftykins> it won't no
<daftykins> depends what you can do in controller terms
<daftykins> as i say mine was serious money
<daftykins> i got mine from scan.co.uk last time as they offered them
<daftykins> http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=3ware
<daftykins> heh i used to talk to Frank at Portsmouth Uni about my RAID plans come to think of it :>
<daftykins> <him> 3ware 3ware 3ware 3ware!
<daftykins> there y'go mapps, bargain - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3ware-sas-9750-24i4e-sgl-24-port-int-4-port-ext-6gb-s-sataplussas-pcie-20-512mb
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ouch so Â£431 inc is the cheapest 8 port
<daftykins> so yeah big decision to make there
<daftykins> you could just be brave and go the software route :)
<Myrtti> May Day eve. Methinks it's time to put the ciders and ginger ale into fridge
<Myrtti> especially since the dog cat decided to knead my arm with his nails and it itches and stings like hell now
<mapps> woah raid cards expensive eh daftykins
<daftykins> sure are
<mapps> Myrtti what ciders?:D strongbow dark fruitis ace
<Myrtti> mapps: it's a Finnish brand, not sold in UK
<daftykins> mapps: you could just get a dumb simple card that offers more ports and just go the software route - totally down to your confidence really :)
<mapps> hmm why would i need a card to go sw route
<daftykins> oh you wouldn't
<daftykins> could just get the board with more
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> ugh i don't know if i really want to spend on this junk again XD
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> feels like its warm enough to wear shorts to work
<MooDoo> ewwwwwwwww ;)
<daftykins> i'm wearing them in the day but it tends to get nippy enough to change in the evenings inside
<mapps> lol whats wrong with shorts MonsterKiller
<mapps> MooDoo
<mapps> fs
<MooDoo> lol nothing at all, just picturing your white legs ;)
<MooDoo> bet they are not as white as mine ;)
<mapps> hahaha
<mapps> i could be black or asian
<mapps> but yea im not..im pale white;p
<MooDoo> lol nothing like me stereotyping people is ther ;)
<mapps> but its right
<mapps> lol
<mapps> pale pasty white brit
<mapps> :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> mine are super pale thin sticks
<daftykins> cyclists legs
<MooDoo> lol
<daftykins> i believe they could be weaponised via a fiendish image online
<daftykins> but i'm just not that cruel
<daftykins> ...yet.
<mapps> off to work i go
<mapps> but never fear il be back online;p
<MooDoo> have a good one :D
<mapps> avoiding work at all costs
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> quick, screenshot and email mapps' boss
<maps|wrk> back
<maps|wrk> ;]
<maps|wrk> got an awful kb though..keys dont feel right and its too loud everyone can hear me tapping away:(
<daftykins> stealth maps is no more!
<maps|wrk> well
<maps|wrk> yea its a bit annoying
<maps|wrk> im also sitting where people can see my screen..but noone really in
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> normally i try and find an office with noone else in it..with the pc facing the wall so noone can see the monitors
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> do they just have banks of workstations?
<daftykins> haha school time style
<daftykins> 'the kids at the back are always trouble makers!'
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> well im doing my job at the same time
<maps|wrk> a SuperEngineer  AND a SuperMatt
<maps|wrk> :)
<SuperEngineer> but of course!
<SuperMatt> we're just too super
<jussi> just super!
<jussi> (yeah, I know, I sound like gary, but he isnt here, so someone has to do it...) :P
<maps|wrk> people are alive..hoorah
<diddledan> morning
<maps|wrk> hey diddledan
<diddledan> a patchin' we will go, a patchin' we will go, ee aye the adio, a patchin' we will go
<diddledan> whoever says I'm not a sucker for punishment, I challenge to physically assault me
 * diddledan counts on his fingers.. no wait.. does that work right?
<diddledan> soon, my precious
<soon> why ... I dont even know you :-)
<diddledan> wait, what?
<soon> you called me precious :-)
<diddledan> .. my precious
<soon> lol
<diddledan> smeegul no mean to hurt any ones
<soon> ..this is off topic I know ... I'm watching Orphan Black ... get-iPLayer didn't get episode 4 completely ... corrupted :-( ... It's now off iPlayer ... anyone happen to have that episode on local file?
<diddledan> not I
<diddledan> someone else might
<soon> I was hoping, someone might
<maps|wrk> hey soon
<maps|wrk> orphan black s1?
<maps|wrk> orphan black was decent
<maps|wrk> s2 just started!
<soon> hey - yup S01E04
<soon> I missed series one all together, so I'm cathing up :-)
<maps|wrk> aha
<maps|wrk> slow
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> seen s1 and now onto s2 watched s2e2 on sunday
<maps|wrk> and soon just check tpb? it *must* be on there:)
<soon> I know s2 just started
<soon> tpb?
<diddledan> them thar be pirates!
<diddledan> yarr
<soon> you know why they're called pirates?
<maps|wrk> the pirate bay!
<maps|wrk> :D
<diddledan> and thems has themselves a haul in their bay
<soon> .... they just aarrre
<maps|wrk> iplayer is kinda annoying...wish they kept styuff on their longer
<soon> of course ... tpb ... I'm not a member there though ..
<diddledan> shouldn't need to be?
<soon> yes, you have to keep your wits about you not to miss anything
<maps|wrk> you dont need to be soon
<soon> no? I've never actually been to tpb
<maps|wrk> http://thepiratebay.se or http://tpbunblocked.me
<soon> I'll have a look
<maps|wrk> or thwww.thepiratebay.gg
<diddledan> the priate bish unblocked me?
<maps|wrk> ;]
<diddledan> or. the pretty bird unblocked me?
<maps|wrk> or the pirate bay unblocked;p
<maps|wrk> ya soon you dont download stuff? tsk tsk what a waste of your internets
<diddledan> wait, that doesn't make any kind of sense, maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> what doesnt
<soon> i'm just a do-gooder, nice boy
<maps|wrk> make no sense why
<soon> It's asking to install an exe file ? weird stuff ...
<diddledan> maps|wrk that they'd name it "the pirate bay unblocked" - that's just plain nonsense
<diddledan> ooh, don't go running any exes
<diddledan> I downloaded a load of movies which claim to have the codec in an exe alongside
<diddledan> methinks it's a trojan
<soon> well im obviously not going to run an exe file (on linux :-)
<diddledan> oooh, yeah
<diddledan> hmm, wine?
<soon> no wine, just linux
<diddledan> I don't tend to think things through very hard
<diddledan> beer?
<diddledan> that's free dun'tchaknow
<diddledan> free as in beer
<soon> StartDownload.exe is what I'm getting when I click download ...
<diddledan> aah, you're clicking the wrong download button :-p
<diddledan> further down there should be textual links to "magnet" or "torrent"
<soon> Yes I found the torrent ...
<diddledan> grr, nfs is messing me about
<soon> thanks for your help ..
<diddledan> np, welcome to teh undergrounds
<diddledan> where we're all really just geeks who like ubuntu but flirt with n0rty things when it serves a purpose such as shiny tv
<diddledan> becuase... shiny
<diddledan> who doesn't like shiny?!
<soon> dunno?
<diddledan> maps|wrk you like shiny, right?
<diddledan> I'll bet it's that damned shauno who doesn't. damn you shauno. damn you to ireland!
<shauno> wut
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> <-- sleep deprevation
<maps|wrk> brb switching machines
<diddledan> did I scare him off?
<soon> who? me?
<diddledan> nah, maps
<diddledan> wb mapps
<diddledan> maps|wrk
<maps|wrk> yo!
<diddledan> how long does it take for sleep deprivation to become terminal. be that via exhaustion or via everyone else attacking the deprivee to shut him the F up?
<shauno> for the former, I think it's about a week for complications & two weeks for serious complications.  actually dying of it can take months though
<shauno> for the later, I want to say about 7 minutes.
<maps|wrk> how much sleep do you two gett..youre aloways around;p
<maps|wrk> but aslong s u get 5-6 /night is enough imop
<shauno> usually about half that.  but I make up for it on my first day off :)
<maps|wrk> i try to get 5/6 a night
<maps|wrk> and you diddledan
<diddledan> I tend to do 2days without sleep then sleep around 10 hours
<diddledan> or more
<diddledan> more hours sleep, I mean
<shauno> hm, how to make bash put things in history even if they start with a space
<maps|wrk> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derek/4od
<maps|wrk> derek s2e1 was giid
<maps|wrk> good
<Bob____> Hey is anyone able to help me with a game related issue with Ubuntu?
<maps|wrk> ah oops didnt see
<diddledan> "don't attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence"
<maps|wrk> this docu on chan5 'newcastle after dark' wow it seems hideous at night..i get every town is kinda bad for binge drinking
<maps|wrk> but they have 'street pastors' , police galore, a booze bus parked up to take care of people
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> i've never been to newcastle mind, not sure i want to
<diddledan> southampton has the boozebus and street pastors too
<diddledan> I had a good conversation on my way out to get pished
<diddledan> they're thoroughly nice folk the street pastors
<maps|wrk> oh really, didnt know
<maps|wrk> i lived in portsmouth for 3 years and i never saw either there
<shauno> I like newcastle.  but I did notice some of the best pubs look pretty grim from the outside
<maps|wrk> never seen the bus/pastors in woking/guildford or anywhere in Souf London
<maps|wrk> I just have this image of newcastle as being a very poor, very uneducated chav area?:)
<maps|wrk> all the fake tan and makeup doesn't do the image any favours
<maps|wrk> lol another thing i cant understand, all the girls taking there shoes off...even when not that drunk...streets everywhere are filthy
<diddledan> maps|wrk flipflops to the rescue
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> drunk or not..some of the heels these girls wear cant be comfortable ever
<diddledan> I don't think heels are comfortable, period.
<maps|wrk> stone cold sober ...i imagine some of the heels to be an absolute teeth grinding pain to wear
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> exactly
<diddledan> it's supposed to make a girl appear to have longer legs
<maps|wrk> i see
<diddledan> I don't get it myself
<maps|wrk> is Newcastle as bad as i imagine ..in terms of poor/chav or is it just all the shows ive seen making me think that
<maps|wrk> it irrirates me hearing girls whine about how their feet hurt..if i wore skin tight jeans I imagine sitting down wouldn't be too comfortable..shock horror
<maps|wrk> thats another barmy one tbh..spray on jeans..like girls or guys they CAN'T be comfortable
<diddledan> comfy ftw
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> ive got my shorts on atm
<maps|wrk> :D
<diddledan> I like my aged teeshirts and comfy jeans
<maps|wrk> yea i dont like tight clothing, and also with these skin tight jeans...how do you have room for a wallet and phone?
<maps|wrk> as it is I find a lot of jeans have rubbish pockets for phone/wallet..but skin tight..lol
<diddledan> I don't get how you actually physically absorb them
<maps|wrk> ive worn trousers before that are a bit tight and its not comfortable
<maps|wrk> and that wasnt on purpose..i mustve just put weight on;p
<diddledan> lol
<maps|wrk> got my old old shorts on atm, and an old hoodie;p
<diddledan> I imagine skintight jeans come with an application tool?
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> sprayed on i thought
<maps|wrk> clearly dressed professionally:D
<diddledan> lol
<maps|wrk> my old glastonbury hoodie..shorts and trainers
<maps|wrk> well real shoes would look weird with hoodie and shorts eh
<maps|wrk> some other departments have to wear proper work clothes hah1
<diddledan> yey for liberal dress code
<maps|wrk> ya when i started had t wear shirt/shoesproper trousers right pain
<maps|wrk> used to wear a jumper to hide my unironed shirt:)
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-get-a-council-house/4od#3682152
<maps|wrk> gotta love it
<maps|wrk> 'tower hamlets has one of the highest rents in the country but its also one of the poorest areas'
<maps|wrk> i dont get why all these people feel so entitled to it
<maps|wrk> you don't find it strange?
<maps|wrk> what a joke this womens getting 500/wk benefits and she's complaining and she says 'i can cut mobiles and sky' and the guy in the council laughs and says 'you've still got sky?'
 * penguin42 giggles
<maps|wrk> seriously i dont get how she could sit there and say that
<maps|wrk> O_o
 * penguin42 is much to mean to buy sky
<maps|wrk> but if someone else was paying?:D
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> sky's rubbish anyway, had it years and years ago..but i mean, all the ads annoy me
<maps|wrk> paying a monthly fee and then getting ads galore pfff
<maps|wrk> who here has sky?
<maps|wrk> Oh my
<maps|wrk> a teaching assistant and she put on the form 'to expensive'
<maps|wrk> tsk tsk
<dogmatic69_> upgraded to 14.04 the other day and now this ... http://i.imgur.com/llz9ndB.png
<dogmatic69_> any ideas why?
<dogmatic69_> so far it is only mysql workbench I have seen this happen too
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> moment
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: That looks like a missing font
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: some where removed between 13.x and 14.04?
<ali1234> what toolkit is mysql workbench written with?
<dogmatic69_> no idea
<dogmatic69_> changed all the fonts in the config to Ubuntu/Ubuntu mono and its good now
<dogmatic69_> was helvetica and something else
<maps|wrk> whats that from or meant to be
<maps|wrk> oh u said, sorry
<maps|wrk> crap soccer coming up for me
<maps|wrk> ;[
<maps|wrk> daftykins:
<daftykins> what-o
<maps|wrk> you use anything like webmin ior zentyal?
<daftykins> nah webmin is dead and unsupported in debian land afaik
<daftykins> !webmin
<lubotu3> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system.
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> and not encountered t'other
<daftykins> ultimately i think it's fair to say, in all seriousness, that anything that holds your hand in Linux land stops you learning it right
<maps|wrk> yea i agree with that:)
<maps|wrk> what servuices do you run on your box
<maps|wrk> *services
<penguin42> daftykins: There are times though when you have to fight something you rarely fight that it's nice to have something that does it for you
<maps|wrk> on another topic
<maps|wrk> has anyone been to bem brasil?
<daftykins> is that something other than brazil?
<penguin42> it's a resteraunt chain specialising in meat
<daftykins> ah ty
<daftykins> don't have chains here
<daftykins> penguin42: definitely true, though i think a solid grounding in the hard-way 'round means you can diagnose it better than the experience obtained from the easy way
<daftykins> sorry was just gaming thar
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh, it's just once in a couple of years you have to fight something rare and never really get the chance or time to get the detail - and you just want the button to press
<daftykins> maps|wrk: my local webserver is just that basically, running a single wordpress instance on a VM atop my real file server, then a second dedicated VM just runs irssi :D
<daftykins> maps|wrk: i have a VPS with bigv.io that holds a 3 or 4 websites too, but nothing special
<daftykins> they are ubuntu server 10.04.4, ditto and debian respectively
<daftykins> Â£10/mo for the bigv, single core with 25GB disk, 1GB RAM and 300GB/month traffic i think
<maps|wrk> why a vm just for irssi and a vm just for apache?
<maps|wrk> penguin42:  have you been?
<penguin42> no
<maps|wrk> ah ok
<penguin42> I think we've got a few in Manc
<maps|wrk> was hoping someone had and could tell me if its worth going to
<maps|wrk> yep
<daftykins> short answer: because i can :) got the file server running 24/7 already, so anything i want can go on top.
<maps|wrk> going to united v hull on sat and was thinking about going to bem brasil rather than nandos;)
<maps|wrk> qwhy not run it on the file server
<daftykins> because it's Windows
<daftykins> and VMs = ace
<penguin42> daftykins: I really should move to bigv, I'm on their older (more expensive) VMs
<daftykins> originally though i did the web server as an experiment into learning how, so not knowing how hard it would be to secure it against the wider world i segregated IRC as i didn't trust it running on the same instance
<daftykins> i was new to both web admin and irssi at the time
<maps|wrk> what you running?
<daftykins> penguin42: a friend had VMs on the other, apparently they waive the fees if you want some time to transition smoothly
<maps|wrk> apache here..i know people say nginx and lighthttpd are better pfft
<maps|wrk> for my site it doesnt matter 1hit/week
<maps|wrk> lol
<daftykins> i heard of a few big advisories to do with nginx that were quite showstoppers, so not sure there
<daftykins> given i've got so few sites on my bigv but it's showing as using 750MB still (RAM) even after tweaking instances i'd probably give lighttpd a spin
<maps|wrk> what you using atm then apache?
<daftykins> ja
<maps|wrk> same
<daftykins> i think these ubuntu 10.04.4 machines have 1 yr left of support, so at some point i need to rework them on 14.04 perhaps
<daftykins> or maybe i'll go super masochistic and do a minimal debian of some variety
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh I should at some point; although I'm currently fighting bytemarks domain transfer thing (which seems entirely undocumented)
<daftykins> ah :(
<daftykins> not handling any domains through them
<daftykins> +myself
<daftykins> speaking of domains
<daftykins> my Guernsey .gg needs renewing =|
<daftykins> Â£45 / yr!
<daftykins> they're such a rip-off
<penguin42> ouch
<penguin42> do they let you have e.gg ?
<daftykins> i've been meaning to ask a local politician why a monopoly is allowed
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> e.gg hah
<daftykins> i think they have issues with anything two characters or below
<daftykins> i once wanted wp.gg
<penguin42> why?
<daftykins> oh what - they're owned now!
<daftykins> wp.gg forwards to some russian thing
<daftykins> infiplay.ru
 * penguin42 was looking for bu.gs the other day but someone already has it
<daftykins> d'aww
<maps|wrk> lol thats a cool one
<maps|wrk> theres a whole loada new tlds coming tho penguin42
<maps|wrk> http://www.willhill.com/ work for anyone?
<daftykins> gah i wanted je.je too but that's owned now too
<penguin42> yep
<daftykins> www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com
<daftykins> yep working
<maps|wrk> doesnt work for me
<maps|wrk> hmm
<daftykins> what's your DNS?
<ali1234> hey can anyone access www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com?
<maps|wrk> no idea
<maps|wrk> at work
<ali1234>  /trolling
<daftykins> ali1234: isitdownrightnow.com
<daftykins> ;D
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-01
<maps|wrk> tired now ugh
<maps|wrk> and spilt my drink somehow ;[[
<maps|wrk> how much memory has your windows machine got to be able to run all those vms daftykins
<daftykins> all two? :)
<daftykins> well fun fact there, the web server has 256MB and this has 128MB
<daftykins> file server has 4GB
<maps|wrk> oh
<maps|wrk> i just assumed mored
<daftykins> software was a lot simpler back on that version i think
<daftykins> even a 32-bit server VM i installed of 14.04 seemed to consume a lot of RAM at first boot
<Azelphur> daftykins: I ran a webserver on a machine with 32MB RAM
<daftykins> minimal might sort that out though
<Azelphur> :P
<daftykins> :D external? what kinda timeframe?
<Azelphur> this was in ~2008, maybe before.
<maps|wrk> what dist was that
<shauno> I still have a mailserver consuming almost nothing
<maps|wrk> running what shauno  dist and all
<shauno> postfix on debian wheezy
<shauno> tends to sit around 10Mb in 8 processes
<penguin42> yeh my bytemark box is just my mailserver
<penguin42> lets see, it's saying 480M used, of which 277MB cached, 70MB buffers, so I guess that's about 140MB processes
<penguin42> ov which about 100MB is spamd
<Azelphur> maps|wrk: debian :)
<daftykins> shauno: O_O
<daftykins>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<daftykins> Mem:          1002        746        256          0        136        401
<daftykins> that's my hungry hungry hippo VPS
<daftykins> seem sane?
<penguin42> sheesh, 1GB of RAM
<shauno>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<shauno> Mem:           128        126          1          0          0        123
<shauno> 126 used with 123 caches means kernel, postfix & sshd (all that box runs) take up 3Mb atm
<shauno> (literally all it runs.  no syslog, no cron, no 'consolekit', etc)
<penguin42> unusual to show the full 128 in the 'total' if that's really the total amount of ram
<penguin42> on all the machines I've got the total is a bit less than the total
<penguin42> after the kernel and the bios have taken a chunk
<shauno> I have a feeling it's a container, it's a super-cheap ($15/yr) vps
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> it does the trick though.  it's just store & forward as a second mx so I've a bit more breathing space breaking the main host
<shauno> (hence the el-cheapo - it doesn't feel like overkill when it's 75p / month)
<penguin42> yeh I don't think that would cut it for the anount of spam that I have to discard
<daftykins> penguin42: that's the bigv ja
<penguin42> in fact, I think I did used to have 128MB before bytemark increased there limits and I used to get exim running out of memory
<daftykins> does mine look a bit terrible given it runs 2 wordpress' (only one 'active') and 2 static sites?
<daftykins> amusingly despite some earlier convo i am actually using bytemark's 'symbiosis' management jazz on it XD
<shauno> spamd doesn't run on the second host, it just passes mail back to the primary & allthe clever runs there
<shauno> it just means I don't get the naggy emails when, eg, the debian mail lists are quite anal about bounces
<penguin42> so what does the 2nd host do?
<maps|wrk> whats the host that u opass it to run
<shauno> accepts mail and requeues it to send to the primary.  it runs as a lower priority than the primary, so mail should only go there when the primary isn't accepting (spammers don't obey this  heh)
<daftykins> this 'meet the new google maps' message is soooo old
<daftykins> i clear my browser cache all the time so please stop telling me!
<shauno> so when the primary is down, the queue builds up on the secondary.  and then when the secondary comes back it all pushes through
<shauno> it just stops the sending server sending "undeliverable but I'll keep trying" bounces
<penguin42> shauno: Do you do anything clever about validating the adresses on the 2ndary to stop them bouncing when the primary comes back?
<shauno> nope :/  it'd be neat but I have no idea how
<maps|wrk> what do you run on your mail hosts
<shauno> one's on lucid, the little one's on debian.  both postfix, with dovecot, spamd and dkim on the primary
<maps|wrk> not sure what dkim is :D off to google
<maps|wrk> no clamav or spamassasin?
<shauno> spamd is spamassassin
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh some people get a bit annoyed if the secondary were to bounce stuff when the primary came back since you get it as a way for the spammers to cause traffic
<maps|wrk> ah sorry
<maps|wrk> you tried clamav?
 * penguin42 runs spamassassin and crm114 - but no av
<shauno> I don't have much use for clamav
<maps|wrk> i just always see people mention it
<shauno> right, "I" being the important bit there.  I don't have users, windows, etc
<daftykins> i always thought running your own mail could be a serious headache? when new to it
<penguin42> it is when it breaks
<daftykins> hehehe
<penguin42> especially when you do it for your family etc
<shauno> it is a headache  heh
<daftykins> i was giving someone assistance with web server stuff, he kept trying to get me to help setup his own mail - i kept resisting and said just pay the fee for google apps
<daftykins> he eventually gave in
<daftykins> only one address, i'd rather that and Â£33/yr than the headache of self hosting
<daftykins> especially as his system died the other day...
<shauno> I host my own mail, dns, jabber, etc.  it's my pennance for being 90% apple at home (and helps stop me completely forgetting how computers work)
<penguin42> DNS I use bytemarks
<daftykins> hehehe
<penguin42> they have a system for pushing DNS entries into their servers
<daftykins> my provider handle DNS for free for .gg and .je domains thankfully
<daftykins> *handles
<maps|wrk> The RewriteBase directive specifies the URL prefix to be used for per-directory (htaccess) RewriteRule directives that substitute a relative path.
<daftykins> given they cost 4 x that of a .co.uk it's the least they can do =|
<penguin42> daftykins: It's obviously because they have to hand carry the DNS definitions to the mainland and so the extra cost is to pay for the ferry
<daftykins> penguin42: :D
<maps|wrk> does that basically mean the specified prefix will be used in case of /dir/dir
<daftykins> any ideas what's stopping more than one single company being the one in control though?
<daftykins> http://www.channelisles.net/
<daftykins> this is the monopolistic bunch of *ahem*
<daftykins> http://www.channelisles.net/register-domains/prices/
<penguin42> the co.gg isn't quite as bad
<penguin42> (and is quite nice)
<shauno> wow .. that actually looks worse than my last laptop - http://imgur.com/a/NmqNb/  (spoiler - it still 'works')
<daftykins> my little muckabout as you may've seen is www.techblo.gg
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5gonubn8iikntk0/IMG_20140501_022342.jpg
<daftykins> warning, cat pic
<maps|wrk> SSL connection error
<maps|wrk> hms
<maps|wrk> must be my end
<shauno> works here (can confirm cat)
<maps|wrk> an someone help me again, how could i go about changing ~/user to /user
<shauno> not sure I get what you're asking
<maps|wrk> so http://ip/~user becomes http://ip/user
<daftykins> you're actually having to type the tilde into that subfolder?
<daftykins> *into the address bar to reach that subfolder ?
<maps|wrk> well for the users dir yea tyhats what mod_userdir does
<daftykins> ok, it's apparent to me that my brain is gone right now
<daftykins> :D
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> need some good new films to watch hmm
<daftykins> i still haven't gotten around to Captain Wotsit
<daftykins> Captain Philips
<daftykins> ok i really should not be here, gnight!
<maps|wrk> ah nor have i
<maps|wrk> cya daftykins
<shauno> I think I'm gonna head to bed too.  I have to be up at 5, and 3am is no sane time to be staring at RewriteCond
<maps|wrk> lol
<shauno> :/
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapps> fear not
<mapps> i am back
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> phew the world is saved ;)
<mapps> ;]
 * smittix yawns
<smittix> Morning all
<mapps> morning smittix
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> morning diplo
<diplo> Good evening had by all ?
<mapps> been at work..sleep for me soon
<mapps> :D
<diplo> Couldn't do nights
<diplo> Used to work through the night, but not do permanent or shift work
<mapps> i get left alone which is good
<mapps> so i can come on here..watch iplayer etc
<mapps> heh
<diplo> What trade?
<mapps> gambling industry
<MooDoo> mapps: tech support?
<mapps> nie
<mapps> maps ...pro trader
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> bet365.com
<mapps> combination of the job and hours allow me to do my own stuff while at work
<MooDoo> fab
<mapps> could do it if i did the job on days..but more people around who might wonder why im wasting time;p
<MooDoo> lol let's hope no one you know is on there then ;)
<mapps> on here?
<mapps> pah unlikely
<mapps> work is like all microsoft and windows..windows is the best zzz
<mapps> all the tech stuff ..service desk yada yada is ms
<mapps> occasionally i get told ive gotta sit with someone or rather them with me for training
<mapps> thats a real PITA
<mapps> stuck unable to visit any work sites or anything :)
<MooDoo> Lots of companies use MS just due to it's gui and ease of setup etc.
<smittix> o/
<MooDoo> howdy smittix
<smittix> Alreet?
<MooDoo> yeah man, finish work in 2 hours till Tuesday ;)
<smittix> Nice
<MooDoo> yeah :D
<smittix> 8 Hours for me
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Been here 3 already
<smittix> DPM failure
<MooDoo> 7am start for me, although i normally get here at 6:30
<smittix> at least I have spotify to keep me company.
<MooDoo> I've got a IPIC stugy guide lol
<smittix> Moved into a massive office on my own to oversee a project. I feel like I have been exiled.
<MooDoo> minecraft it is then :D
<smittix> Good thing is it takes me away from the daily IT dribble which the other guys have to handle.
<MooDoo> I'm dealing with it now, live chat servers were down earlier, boooo
<smittix> meh
<MooDoo> as it's 3rd party servers, nothing we can do apart from chase :(
<smittix> Data Protection Manager is inconsistent all over the place.
<mapps> IPIC?
<ujjain2> there is free tv in the UK right?
<mapps> well you have to have a license really
<SuperMatt> morning peeps
<smittix> moaning
<MooDoo> ujjain2: we have freeview, but you still need a license if you have any device that's capable of receiving a tv signal
<MooDoo> mapps: sorry LPIC
<shauno> I kinda miss the TV licence
<ujjain2> MooDoo, a license? you need to pay?
<MooDoo> ujjain2: yes
<MooDoo> ujjain2: read this - http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/
<SuperMatt> The UK system is weird, but I wouldn't have it any other way
<MooDoo> it should be scrapped, it's daft we have to pay.
<MooDoo> oh sorry forgot, we pay for repeats of eastenders lol
<SuperMatt> I think it's properly good value
<MooDoo> pah!
<shauno> oh it is.  I pay about the same here, and don't get the bbc for it
<MooDoo> scrap it that's what I say
<SuperMatt> When I think about how much stuff like Doctor Who cost and how much joy it brings, I realise that the amount we pay isn't so bad.
<SuperMatt> and lest we forget that top gear gets sold all around the world, which brings in a lot more money, so we're actually paying for a small part of a much larger investment
<MooDoo> as much as i hate them, I'd rather have adverts than pay a licence.
<mapps> lol
<mapps> it isnt bad but then when you see how much they pay the staff its a joke
<mapps> and how many staff the bbc send to the world cup..glasto..etc
<mapps> they just burn through money as it's no object..taxpayers money
<shauno> yeah, they should cover the world cup from a wooden shed in Wiggan.  it'd be much cheaper
<SuperMatt> but it's not *only* tax payer money because there's so much they export
<shauno> curious, does anyone know off-hand who the swiss national broadcaster is?
<shauno> just seems like some interesting perspective, they pay twice the licence we do.  we get the bbc and they get ...?
<soon> Any KDE afficionadoes here?
<nigelb> I think jussi sort of likes KDE ;-)
<soon> I can ask over on kubuntu instead :-)
<SuperMatt> I've kinda fallen for the gnome-flashback session
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yes I like that
<SuperMatt> it's really only because my work PC sucks, and can't deal with transparency all that well
<SuperMatt> which makes unity slooooow
<dogmatic69> I need apache to run something as another user (sphinx)
<dogmatic69> I added this to visudo Defaults:apache !requiretty
<dogmatic69> apache ALL=(sphinx) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/indexer
<dogmatic69> and then get the following error: sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified
<MartijnVdS> popey: are you flying again today? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27225649
<MartijnVdS> popey: (because you seem to attract bluescreens on airport displays... ;))
<popey> luckily not
<MooDoo> they will get rid of XP one day; )
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the last day of the universe
<smittix> I noticed a super market till still using windows 98 the other week.
<smittix> I nearly fainted
<shauno> I used to work for a hotel who were still using dos right up until 2008
<shauno> complete with y2k issues 'n all  (you couldn't book too far ahead because every year was 1999)
<MartijnVdS> omg
<MartijnVdS> but "hey it works right"
<shauno> it worked well enough that no-one could justify replacing it, yeah
<MooDoo> dos - ftw!
<MartijnVdS> I replaced an old DOS box running the milking machine at my uncle's farm last year
<MartijnVdS> replaced it with an identical machine too!
<MartijnVdS> (yay attics full of old hardware ;))
<shauno> (if it's any consolation, they're not just out of business, they literally tore the place down.  it's a nice little beachfront park now)
<popey> I know a guy who still uses dos for controlling milling machines. It's running on an Amstrad PC 1640
<bashrc> for those dedicated apps replacing them doesn't make much sense if they're still working
<shauno> as long as they have a plan B when the hardware finally gives up, sure
<bashrc> yes
<bashrc> although old hardware can keep going for a long time
<popey> it gave up a few years ago and he called me, turns out his floppy disk had more than 512 files in the root
<popey> i deleted some crap and he can carry on for another 10 years
<bashrc> nice
<popey> https://i.imgur.com/8UnPtur.jpg
<popey> i want the black one!
<shauno> I may never understand your nipple fixation
<dogmatic69> anyone know why "apache ALL=(sphinx) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/indexer" does not allow apache user to run as sphinx ?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what does 'sudo -l' as apache say?
<jussi> shauno: I like nipples also!
<jussi> :P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS:  https://gist.github.com/dogmatic69/10c5cf306f481b42cbe2
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS:  updated with my current visudo config
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I'd say "sudo -u sphinx /usr/bin/indexer" should work
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS:  it totally does :D
<dogmatic69> thanks
<dogmatic69> my issue is not using full path....
<MartijnVdS> sudo wants full paths for security stuffs
<smittix> popey: Have you played CS:GO?
<popey> no
<foobarry> libreoffice looks like a wine app on my laptop - any suggestions what i might have done wrong? or not have done
<foobarry> (i'm on elementary but it works fine on my desktop)
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> apt-get install libreoffice-gnome
<foobarry> thanks askubuntu
<Laney> thaskubuntu
<Laney> good day davmor2
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * DJones wonders what timezone bigcalm is in
<bigcalm> DJones: my very own :)
<DJones> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do, how was the lug last night
<bigcalm> davmor2: it was good. We even chatted about Linux things now and then. Quite rare for us
<Laney> bash sed awk grep cut tr tac seq paste
<Laney> ^- handy linux chat if you ever get stuck
<penguin42> Laney: yes
<shauno> exit
<shauno> gah
<penguin42> no, I don't believe unix does have a   gah command
<popey> it should symlink to meh
<bigcalm> !info gah
<lubotu3> Package gah does not exist in saucy
<bigcalm> Why is lubotu3 still looking at saucy?
<MartijnVdS> poor backwards bot :P
<DJones> !info gah
<lubotu3> Package gah does not exist in trusty
<DJones> bigcalm: It doesn't like you (or you have to poke the right person to get it changed)
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> I'll go with automations not liking me
<penguin42> lubotu3: Who is your master
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> I think it took that as an attempt to define who
<popey> http://pastebin.com/AaSYZTHt
<awilkins> Erm, is Trusty Server really only available in 64-bit?
<Laney> no, not really
<penguin42> awilkins: No
<penguin42> awilkins: http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/ubuntu-14.04-server-i386.iso
<awilkins> penguin42, Good, 'cos my neolithic workplace only permits 32-bit Windows on our desktops and virutalizing 64-bit OS on them is a PITA
<penguin42> awilkins: Time for a new job?
<MartijnVdS> haha 32-bit Windows
<MartijnVdS> they still make that?
<awilkins> The justification runs like this -
<awilkins> i) We still have some software that needs a 32-bit OS (this probably includes things with device drivers that aren't 64-bit and things that are actually 16-bit apps and need the WOW32 thunking layer)
<awilkins> ii) Supporting Win64 as well as Win32 is more work
<penguin42> that is true
<awilkins> iii) Therefore everyone has to use Win32
<awilkins> My interjection : Can I just shove more RAM in my desktop and
<awilkins> install a lightweight Linux on it configured to run VMs and run the corporate OS in a VM instead?
<awilkins> Because frankly, it's a resource-hogging pain in the butt anyway
<penguin42> awilkins: The problem is the standard windows licensing doesn't allow it
<awilkins> And the ability to shut it down whenever I pleased would greatly please me
<awilkins> *sigh*]
<penguin42> awilkins: And they would have to maintain the Linux layer
<awilkins> Oh, they don't do Linux
<awilkins> Except of course, for the thing they used to install Windows on our machines via PXE boot
<awilkins> Which seems to be Linux. Yes, they use Linux to install Windows. Twisted.
<penguin42> how do you know it's linux?
<awilkins> Because it says so when it boots.
<penguin42> oh odd
<awilkins> Very sensible and practical TBH
<awilkins> Can you imaging trying to get Windows to boot over PXE on a heterogenous collection of hardware?
<penguin42> there was a company who did a windows image/reinstall system can't remember their name - started with an a
<awilkins> "Aaaargh Windows Crashed"  ?
<diplo> We used to use WDS to deploy windows images
<diplo> Worked ok, mainly used it for Terminal Servcices servers
<penguin42> awilkins: Ah no, acronis
<andylockran> howdy all
<awilkins> I think I had Acronis backup supplied free with an external drive once
<awilkins> I use Duplicity / Duplicati now though
<penguin42> awilkins: Acronis had a neat trick where it would restore windows to a machine with different hardware
<mapps> so annoying companies always changing the use inteface just because
<mapps> too many people having to justify their jobs i expect
<mapps> *user
<penguin42> haha what on?
 * awilkins mumbles stuff about Windows Server
<awilkins> Windows 7
<awilkins> And it's not like you can just fall back to the command line or editing config files either...
<mapps> penguin42
<mapps> betfair
<mapps> they always redo the site and then the forums FULL of people moaning
<penguin42> ah, I don't bet
<mapps> i have to use it for work
<penguin42> ?!
<mapps> well i work in the gambling industry
<penguin42> ah
<mapps> and need a betfair account so we know if we're exchanging basically
<penguin42>  'exhcanging' ?
<mapps> bet with us at say 6/5 and cay lay off at evens on betfair
<mapps> guaranteed a small % profit
<mapps> urgh tired
<diddledan> morgin
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all, the Ubuntu network icon on the task bar says Wi-fi Networks device not ready, and I can't connect to the Internet of course. Is there a solution to this? I need to update the system after it froze last time and I haven't been able to recover it. I'm running in recovery mode
<MartijnVdS> what kind of wifi chip do oyu have?
<TheProphet[S]> Uses the ath9k driver
<TheProphet[S]> And it's the ar9285
<MartijnVdS> that should work out of the box
<MartijnVdS> I have a TP-Link with a similar chipset
<MartijnVdS> is it USB?
<TheProphet[S]> It did work out of the box
<TheProphet[S]> It says PCI express
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> hmm in recovery mode..
<TheProphet[S]> On lshw - c network
<MartijnVdS> what does 'iw list' say?
<TheProphet[S]> Just regular stuff I guess, what it supports, frequencies etc
<TheProphet[S]> Unfortunately I cannot pastebin it
<MartijnVdS> TheProphet[S]: is the network-manager service up?
<TheProphet[S]> Sorry I have to go now, I'll have to look into it later on, thanks for your help MartijnVdS
<bigcalm> Networking type peeps!
<bigcalm> How would I route requests for 192.168.56.# to a server on my network?
<bigcalm> That server has a load of virtual machines running on it on the network 192.168.56.#
<bigcalm> I tried sudo route add -net 192.168.56.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.1.10
<bigcalm> That let me ping 192.168.56.1 (the virtual interface on the server)
<bigcalm> But I can't ping the virtual machines such as 192.168.56.8
<davmor2> bigcalm: put in an alias in a file,  let me try and find which one for you
<cookieholic_LSVP> hey :)
<cookieholic_LSVP> im pretty new here, just installed ubuntu like 10 mins ago
<bigcalm> cookieholic_LSVP: welcome to freedom :)
<cookieholic_LSVP> awh thanks bigcalm :D
<cookieholic_LSVP> how's everyone?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Fixed it buy putting the static route in my router :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: mod /ect/hosts
<diddledan> bigcalm, does your VM host have ip forwarding enabled and also does it have a return route for 192.168.1.0/24?
<diddledan> aah fixed
<diddledan> nvm
<diddledan> ignore me then
<bigcalm> :)
 * bigcalm eyes freenode
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh get you and your mr fancy pants fixed it myself ;)
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Thanks for the suggestions though guys :)
<davmor2> no worries ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, inorite, how inconsiderate is that to fix something BEFORE you even get anyone to help?!
<bigcalm> Did I netsplit or something?
<diddledan> bigcalm, you should be ashamed of yourself!
<davmor2> bigcalm: no we see you
<bigcalm> But I have an underscore
<bigcalm> What happened to bigcalm?
<diddledan> you do?
<diddledan> no underscores here
<bigcalm> Oh, it's xchat and irssi proxy being weird!
<diddledan> ergh
<bigcalm> That's better
<bigcalm> I just reconnected to the irssi proxy and the _ went away
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's because you had to reboot your router ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: haha, why didn't I think of that :D
<diddledan> lol @ http://cdn.acidcow.com/pics/20140501/gifs_22.gif
<ali1234> diddledan: i have a wordpress question
<bigcalm> Unexpected and also wonderful :)
<maps|wrk> hewwo
<ali1234> diddledan: i have some custom tables that i want to behave similar to posts, but i don't want all the custom posts stuff. is it better to replace the custom table with a custom post type, or keep them separate and have logic to keep them sync'd?
<diddledan> if the data in the table is suitable for a post-type then I would set it to be such and do away with the extra table - it's always best to work within the WP ecosystem if you can. I tend to dislike any extra tables in the DB unless absolutely necessary
<ali1234> well, these are my custom tables: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7374932/
<ali1234> i want each round to have it's own page on the site
<ali1234> so currently when making a new round, i also create a new custom post and store the ID in postID
<ali1234> so i'm wondering whether to just get rid of that table and store all the data in wp_meta
<ali1234> thing is, i don't want admin to be able to delete rounds, ever
<ali1234> or various other things that admin can do with posts, that would break the website
<ali1234> but i do want to allow comments on rounds, and have automatic archive pages, and other things that you get for free with posts
<diddledan> hmm, I might be inclined to keep it as a separate set of data then as you've got. If you tie it to a post in the db, however, you can still get the admin removing that post and breaking your linkup, so I'd recommend neutering wordpress for that part of the site so that urls under /rounds/* for e.g. are handled by code you write only
<diddledan> and don't use the post system at all
<diddledan> oh, comments
<ali1234> also this is complicated by the client not really knowing what they want wrt navigation on the site
<diddledan> yeah that makes it more complicated
<ali1234> and also we have a whole legacy site, where each entry was a post, rather than each round, and i need to figure out what to do with all that
<maps|wrk> wrt?
<ali1234> "with respect to"
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> doph
<maps|wrk> sorry
<ali1234> i will probably need some heavy rewrite rules no matter what, because i want /vote to always show the latest round, and vote/1/April to show the round from year 1, called April
<ali1234> but then i still want the archive pages somewhere - those would normally be under /vote but i want them under vote/archive or something
<maps|wrk> i find rmod_rewrite and regex so hard
<maps|wrk> need to find a good tutorial to learn regular expressions;)
<MartijnVdS> maps|wrk: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596528126.do
<bigcalm> Grr. I thought that adding a static route to the router had fixed it. But it hasn't. Back to the drawing board - after dinner
<maps|wrk> thanks MartijnVdS
<daftykins> heh i've borrowed a disk to fix my array
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vz6xxpugeu5saw/IMG_20140501_201500.jpg
<daftykins> she's standing but it's fiiiine! :D
<MartijnVdS> lots o'disks
<penguin42> old school; not done a server like that for a long time
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> it's a pure storage volume so meh
<daftykins> 5% rebuilt already, that's what we like to see
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1lm0b70y2ikmiqv/array.png
<daftykins> i'm looking at a netbook today, lawl
<daftykins> Asus Eee 1005PX, with windows 7 starter edition!
<daftykins> Intel Atom with 1GB RAM >_<
<TheProphet[S]> Re all
<maps|wrk> hey, whats up TheProphet[S]
<maps|wrk> hey whats wrong with netbooks daftykins
<maps|wrk> i use my netbook all the time and i ALWAYS take it on holiday with me ;)
<TheProphet[S]> Trying to get wifi to work again
<daftykins> lol, they're glorified calculators
<TheProphet[S]> Network manager says the device is not managed, if I change the flag in Networks.conf from false to true then it says device not ready
<daftykins> what ubuntu is this? is it a clean install? what's the wireless hardware?
<daftykins> i love a challenge at the best of times but you can make it easy for us too ;D
<TheProphet[S]> Not a clean install, it's 14.04, device is ar9285
<TheProphet[S]> Using ath9k driver
<daftykins> afaiui /etc/network/interfaces should have no references to the interface in order to let NM have full control
<maps|wrk> pff get lost daftykins  they work fine..and i love taking it on holiday;p rather than a huge laptop
<daftykins> glad i don't own one \o/
<maps|wrk> pfffffffffffff
<maps|wrk> SSSSH
<TheProphet[S]> I should add I haven't been able to update for a while due to a problem half way through a massive update
<daftykins> i wouldn't have this long hair anymore, it'd be pulled out in frustration ;)
<daftykins> TheProphet[S]: got a wired interface to fix that with first? :)
<TheProphet[S]> daftykins wired interface is not easy to connect, I would need about 20 metres of cable unfortunately
<daftykins> no reason you can't fix it up by the router temporarily
<daftykins> go hook it up and run a sudo apt-get -f install :)
<daftykins> and pastebin it for us \o/
<TheProphet[S]> I don't really have a monitor,  just a 42" TV connected to the pc it would take a considerable amount of moving to do that unfortunately. I have noticed though that on that file you mentioned there is a ref to the device and also the ssid and password for the wireless connection
<daftykins> oh it's a desktop? nasty
<daftykins> ah - so network manager isn't being allowed to handle it, it's hard-coded to connect using wpa_supplicant
<TheProphet[S]> Not a glorified calculator no :-)
<daftykins> laptops are not netbooks ;)
<daftykins> if your aim is to try using network manager, you'll want to backup that file and replace it with the default
<TheProphet[S]> I might have messed that up myself cos I was trying to connect with wpa_supplicant a couple of days ago
<daftykins> oh, was network manager already not working at that point, so that was an attempt to get it connecting?
<TheProphet[S]> I couldn't get the ui to start due to that botched update
<daftykins> nasty
<daftykins> sounds like wireless is the least of your problems
<TheProphet[S]> And was trying to connect from recovery mode
<TheProphet[S]> I think if I manage to get the Internet working and  run a dist_upgrade apt will find its supercow powers and fix everything
<maps|wrk> would it not be possible to download the required files and then move to a usb stick and use on that pc
<maps|wrk> as hes obviously get net on sopme pc
<daftykins> not really
<TheProphet[S]> I need to undo the stuff I did with wpa_supplicant
<maps|wrk> why not dafty? you can download the stuff manually
<TheProphet[S]> If I delete the interfaces file? Or delete references to wlan0 manually?
<daftykins> maps|wrk: how do you know what apt wants to install without a connection to run an update? :D
<daftykins> TheProphet[S]: tell you what comment them all out with a # at the start of each line, save and reboot
<TheProphet[S]> Ok
<maps|wrk> heh
<TheProphet[S]> There's a line with lface wlan0 inet dhcp, should I comment the whole line? Or just wlan0 and dhcp?
<MartijnVdS> the whole line
<TheProphet[S]> Ok done, sorry about before MartijnVdS, real life knocked on the screen
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MooDoo> yo!
<TheProphet[S]> Connected now :-) thanks guys!
<maps|wrk> so what was it?:)
<TheProphet[S]> The interfaces file clashing with network manager due to my tinkering with wpa_supplicant
<TheProphet[S]> Right?
<MartijnVdS> network-manager stops managing an interface if it sees it in /etc/network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> because it assumes you know what you're doing in that cae.
<diddledan> lmao @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hUQ0C8CGHmU
<maps|wrk> aha
<TheProphet[S]> Should I run safe, full or dist upgrade now? I use aptitude rather apt usually
<TheProphet[S]> After the botched upgrade
<TheProphet[S]> I went for safe
<Azelphur> haha, the gnome-screensaver on 14.04 is super broken for multi X screens
<Azelphur> it doesn't protect anything besides :0.0 any more
<maps|wrk> no idea, im still on 13.10:D
<TheProphet[S]> MartijnVdS you said you used a similar wireless chip, did you also add the option nohwcrypt=1?
<MartijnVdS> ano
<TheProphet[S]> Not sure what it does but it should improve the wireless connection and reduce packet loss apparently
<MartijnVdS> it makes the CPU do all the encryption
<MartijnVdS> instead of the dedicated chip on the wifi card
<MartijnVdS> I never use that option.. that chip is there for a reason -- to offload crypto workload from the main CPU
<TheProphet[S]> Wpa_supplicant is crashing now
<MartijnVdS> did you edit its config file? maybe it's looking at that instead of the one it's expecting?
<TheProphet[S]> Yes I did edit wpa_supplicant.conf
<TheProphet[S]> Actually I removed the file
<maps|wrk> http://www.uannysmejdirky.cz/
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> staying there for 4/5 nights
<MartijnVdS> that language hurts my eyes though :|
<maps|wrk> lol
<maps|wrk> dutch looks odd to us too
<maps|wrk> ik ben
<maps|wrk> :D
<TheProphet[S]> Sorted, everything works. I have to migrate from Ubuntu one to Dropbox now :-/
<TheProphet[S]> I even used Ubuntu one music streaming everyday
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> you must've been the one customer ;)
<maps|wrk> i never used it, ubuntu oine music did it have a good catalogue>?
<TheProphet[S]> I guess
<maps|wrk> take it it wasnt popular
<daftykins> it's more that they realise competing isn't worth trying
<TheProphet[S]> True
<TheProphet[S]> Other companies were giving away to much free stuff
<maps|wrk> they do?! like who and what
<TheProphet[S]> For them to be able to compete
<TheProphet[S]> 15gb from gdrive for instance
<maps|wrk> ah
<maps|wrk> that hotel looks nice and cosy , hopefully not a letdown
<maps|wrk> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0421lxt/Under_Offer_Estate_Agents_on_the_Job_Episode_3/
<maps|wrk> this is vaguely interesting
<maps|wrk> working my way through everything on iplayer heh
<Laney> just been watching that
<Laney> the whole making offers and counter offers business looks extremely tiresome
<maps|wrk> ughh
<maps|wrk> had to do some 'work'
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> did you see some of the prices
<maps|wrk> ]crazy eh
<daftykins> maps|wrk: just saw a bit of that call center prog on my TV's iPlayer proggy
<daftykins> is it me or does Swansea have a lack of eyebrows? they seem to all need to draw them on ;)
<maps|wrk> lol never noticed daftykins
<maps|wrk> noticing odd things
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i find makeup ridiculous
<daftykins> array 94% rebuilt \o/
<maps|wrk> off friday and sat
<maps|wrk> yay
 * penguin42 has had all this week off
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-02
<maps|wrk> nice
<maps|wrk> done much?
<penguin42> not a vast amount, one day of doing a pleasently warm and mostly empty theme park
<penguin42> bit of walking but not a lot
<penguin42> oh and buying discount easter eggs
<daftykins> aww yeah array all sorted.
<daftykins> discount easter eggs seems a fine plan
<maps|wrk> what theme park?
<penguin42> maps|wrk: Alton Towers
<maps|wrk> ahh nice
<maps|wrk> really that empty?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> maps|wrk: Most things less than 5mins wait, Smiler was longer - except for the single-rider queue that was again 5 mins or so
<maps|wrk> thats good though isnt it
<penguin42> wonderful
<maps|wrk> i havent been for geez about 15+years
<maps|wrk> especially good penguin42  because my understanding is that they sell queue jump for all the rides and that now
<penguin42> maps|wrk: I can thoroughly recommend riding Nemesis at the front, bare foot
<penguin42> yeh they sell 'fast tracks' for an extra chunk of fortune over and above the existing entrance fortune
<maps|wrk> so normal people like me that dont wanna pay extra
<maps|wrk> would be left queueing forever:?:D
<penguin42> indeed, me also
<maps|wrk> so you got a good day:)
<penguin42> maps|wrk: Yep, I think I scored 3 nemesis front row, 2 air, 3 smiler, 2 spinball and about 1 of most other big ones (except Rita that was down and anyway I'm not a big fan)
<maps|wrk> nice
<penguin42> the smiler is insane, I gave up counting the number of inversions
<directhex> alton towers lacks a good wooden coatsre
<directhex> with wood
<directhex> and rolling
<directhex> and coasting
<penguin42> directhex: I can get to Blackpool easy for that - but I prefer things with inversions
<directhex> i find too many inversion-heavy rides jolt me about too much. give me a headache
<directhex> goudurix @ parc asterix is particularly bad for that
<penguin42> directhex: I find I'm OK if they're smooth
<directhex> smoothest roller coaster i've been on is probably dragon khan at portaventura
<directhex> which was a record holder for inversions until 2002
<maps|wrk> the cable cars are good;p
<penguin42> directhex: The one at blackpool that used to be at southport is just too painfully rough now, when it was newer and at southport it was wonderfully smooth
<penguin42> directhex: since I tend to go off season it can be a bit odd - I rode that southport one otherwise empty - it's odd riding a big coaster by yourself
<maps|wrk> you go on your own?
<penguin42> nod
<maps|wrk> even to towers?
<maps|wrk> i assumed went with family or something
<maps|wrk> i wouldnt like going on my own..but thats me:)
<daftykins> gotta restart the host file server due to the IE11 zero day out-of-band fix
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> brb
<penguin42> maps|wrk: Don't really know people to go with for that
<maps|wrk> ah
<penguin42> daftykins: Can you just confirm something to me - did you just manage to replace an existing drive in your RAID array ina  seamless, no-downtime, all OK fashion -  and then have to reboot for an IE update?
<daftykins> yes sir :)
<penguin42> rigggghhhhht - just checking
<maps|wrk> always quiet now
<maps|wrk> probably 2-3 awake most
<mapps> hey
<Myrtti> heeeeyyyy.
<Myrtti> </fonzie>
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> daftykins: server needs a reboot after an ie patch?
<jussi> áµá´¥áµ
<jussi> is there _ever_ going to be a next meeting?  :D
<MooDoo> pah got kicked off
<diplo-> moi aussi
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan_> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> moo
<foobarry> doo
<brobostigon> meep
<foobarry> why do i only ever feel rough on days off?
<awilkins> Your subconscious is a member of the Conservative Party and seeks to punish you for your idleness.
<brobostigon> lol
<awilkins> Hmmph, Ubuntu upgrades take ages
<awilkins> (distribution upgrades, not std. updates)
<awilkins> Also, seriously? Ubuntu can't upgrade to a *current* version of Eclipse even though it's nearly a year old now?  3.8.1-1 to 3.8.1-5 ?
<awilkins> Canonical are hiring a Java maintainer though....
<diddledan_> awilkins, can't it?
<awilkins> diddledan_, 3.8 is the old-UI-toolkit version of 4.2
<awilkins> diddledan_, Current version is 4.3
<awilkins> Which has been out since last year
<diddledan_> so why can't ubuntu upgrade to that?
<awilkins> diddledan_, It's not available in the package archives.. I usually install it by installing the package (for the dependencies) and then unpacking a release archive in my home folder
<diddledan_> oic. no maintainer?
<awilkins> I guess since it's so easy to run from an unpack, that Debian pacakers just don't really care very much
<awilkins> And TBH the packages are arguably worse than running it from a folder
<diddledan_> I actually don't like that eclipse doesn't follow file-layout conventions
<awilkins> There's this horrible friction between things that have their own package management, and debian packages
<awilkins> Like Ruby (kings of bleeding-edge)
<diddledan_> yeah, and node/npm
<diddledan_> python/pip is going that way too
<diddledan_> and perl/cpan has always been a pain
<awilkins> Canonical are hiring a Java maintainer... tempted to apply but my C++ isn't really very good
<diddledan_> I like how gentoo does perl/cpan stuff - it provides a utility which creates a new definition in the package manager but still uses the up-to-date cpan source
<awilkins> https://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=777
<awilkins> diddledan_, That sounds like the way my mind was working on the problem just now... "how about something that integrates the foreign packaging system into the debian one..."
<bashrc> havn't done much with java, although I did one write a GWT UI
<bashrc> lots of folks seem to hate java
<awilkins> I don't really think it's a rational hatred
<awilkins> Like all the stuff about it performing badly...
<shauno> my main gripe with it lately is just the error messages being insane
<diddledan_> I've never had a problem with java as a technology, only the programs written using it all looking ugly
<diddledan_> client programs**
<shauno> I just hate getting error messages like http://pastebin.com/eZr1ztYP
<diddledan_>  shauno fun
<shauno> I have problems trying to convince others to go log-diving when troubleshooting, when even a simple UnkownHostException is 20+ lines long
<awilkins> Hmm... maybe it's best to just have easy means of posting these things
<awilkins> THe long stack traces are actually useful, in th emain
<shauno> they're useful .. for someone else.  that's the problem
<awilkins> That's a lotta spring though
<shauno> but we get logs that are stack traces that log4j has wrapped up in xml, and the result is quite imposing
<MartijnVdS> this is why disk space became cheap after Java use exploded
<awilkins> What, hosted service disk space?
<awilkins> I have nightmares about what our own ICT dept. charges us for SAN space...
 * awilkins now has to reboot because his Trusty upgrade has finished
<diddledan_> I'm sat watching http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iss-hdev-payload instead of working
<bashrc> it is amazing how unproductive work can make you
<diddledan_> http://www.projectnaptha.com/
<diddledan_> copy text out of random images in chrome
<shauno> that could be a total accessibility win for lolcats
<jussi> awilkins: seems you managed to reconnect, so the upgrade was at least somewhat of a success?
<awilkins> Yeah... going to have reinstall Eclipse I think
<awilkins> Keeps dropping dead whenever I start it up
<awilkins> Hmm, maybe not
<awilkins> Might have just been the old workspace
<awilkins> Trashed that and it stopes greying out and apporting
<awilkins> My portable drive is 13.04, I guess I'll just back it up and reinstall
<awilkins> Ok, this is a weird upgrade bug : where has my "u" gone..... : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/where-is-my-u.png
<awilkins> Just in the dash
<awilkins> Hope that doesn't last more than a reboot :-)
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diddledan_> Moo
<brobostigon> afternoodlings MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<ujjain2> How can the govenrment find out if you watch tv at your home?
<ujjain2> you need to pay a tv entertainment license I heard
<MooDoo> ujjain2: detector vanes
<MooDoo> vans
<diddledan_> MooDoo they don't use vans no more
<MooDoo> diddledan_: ok bloke with a meter then lol
<diddledan_> ujjain2, if you don't have a license they'll visit occasionally to verify
<MooDoo> it's not worth not having one, you even need one for a computer that has the ability to receive a tv signal
<MooDoo> even though it's not a tv
<ujjain2> There are no TV detector vans. It was originally a PR stunt to frighten people into thinking they could be detected and then pursued for not having a TV licence.
<MooDoo> well even if there isn't, no point in trying to dodge it, you'll get caught eventually
<ujjain2> but how, is what i wonder.
<MooDoo> they have a way....i guarentee it
<ujjain2> I know they have,
<ujjain2> but which way, I don't even watch TV, but I wonder.
<MooDoo> no idea.....
<diddledan_> ujjain2, if you don't have a license they'll visit occasionally to verify
<ujjain2> ah ok, but I can just disconnect the tv
<ujjain2> before I let them in
<diddledan_> they're smarter than that, they'll see the telly and assume you've been watching unlicensed
<MooDoo> no that won't work, you have the tv in your place, you still need one even if you don't watch it
<ujjain2> I have a TV in my room, I don't watch TV on it, sometimes a movie with a girl.
<ujjain2> I'd be screwed then.
<MooDoo> you still need a license :D
<shauno> just get rid of the TV.  if you don't watch it, and don't want to licence it, it's just a liability
 * penguin42 notes that the latter outcome is perhaps the intent
<shauno> plot twist .. the girl is an undercover (tv) inspector!
<diplo> You don't need a TV license, they don't have rights to come on your property as far as I know
<diplo> They need proof that you use it and don't pay, either by someone telling them or not paying
<diplo> But even if you have an inspector they don't have the right to enter your property
<diplo> Well that used to be the case anyway
<Myrtti_> I wish UK would move to a TV tax like Finland has
<diplo> As of 2012 it was still the case, they need a court order/warrant
<diplo> ujjain2, https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/index.app
<popey> ujjain2: if you don't watch live TV, either on the TV itself or streamed, you do not need a TV licence.
<Myrtti_> atleast in Finland if you had a device that could receive TV signal and display it, you needed a licence irregardless of if it was hooked into an antenna or not. Only if you removed or disabled the tuner you could be exempt while owning a tv.
<popey> ujjain2: they can't enter your house.
<popey> ujjain2: the downside is if they know you have a TV they will keep sending you threatening letters and turning up at your door to annoy you
<popey> ujjain2: you can basically tell them to go away though.
<diplo> I've read someone took the company Capita? to court for harassment at one point to stop that
<popey> yeah
<popey> many people are very anti-TV licence
<jussi> Finland just charges everyone now...
<popey> including Azelphur
<diplo> Ridiculous in one way I suppose, my ex took the TV license that I paid for as it was in her name
<diplo> So I had to pay a whole year again
<diplo> It's not done on the premises
<shauno> they're trying to do that here - make the TV license mandatory across the board, whether you own a TV or not
<shauno> iirc it is for the premises, but if it's in your name you can transfer it with you when you move
<Myrtti_> jussi: unless what you'd have to pay is less than 50â¬
<diplo> I tried argueing the point that I had paid out of my account for the last year, but I was failing to win
<diplo> And couldn't be bothered after a certain while
<diplo> Which I expect they were aiming for
<andylock1an> got to the end of the line with me running my own VPS
<andylock1an> :(
<andylock1an> not fot the time to maintain it any more .
<popey> what is there to maintain?
<diddledan_> my server has been running happily for several months without being touched
<diddledan_> I want to get it upgraded to 14.04 but do-release-upgrade doesn't recognise the path yet (I'm assuming until june?)
<jpds> diddledan_: do-release-upgrade -d
<jpds> It's not enabled until .1.
<SuperEngineer> anyone know of a way to configure xchat on Ubuntu so that it does not keep putting up all those "x is now known as y" messages?
 * awilkins doesn't know
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> bashrc is now know known as that-is-bad-grammar
<shauno> SuperEngineer: http://ocaoimh.ie/2012/10/10/hide-the-annoying-bits-in-xchat/  ?
<SuperEngineer> hmm... just checked - no "is_now_known_as" handle in use - must.. stop... evil.... thoughts. must.. stop... now
 * SuperEngineer moves keyboard further away.   must.... stop,,,, arrrrrgh!
<diddledan_> SuperEngineer: what about "the_artist_formally_known_as_the_artist_formally_known_as_prince"?
<diddledan_> nicklen!
<diddledan_> grr
<diddledan_> silly freenode prolly won't allow it for being too long >.<
<awilkins|crisps> Yeah, mine was meant to be the-guy-who-doesnt-know
<diddledan_> crisps?!
 * diddledan_ stomps his feet
<diddledan_> no share?
<diddledan_> :-p
<awilkins> Ooops
<awilkins> They were cheese & bacon ones, if you want to imagine how nice they were
<diddledan_> grr
<shauno> I used to love prawn cocktail
<shauno> so much so that I'd shame anyone else for eating them "because they're pink", just so they were all left for me
<diddledan_> shauno, I love them too
<diddledan_> I also really like frazzles and chipsticks
<daftykins> shauno: :D marie rose sauce is a sauce of the gods
<awilkins> I really fancied a prawn and rocket salad with a yoghurt, lemon and black pepper sauce earlier in the week
<awilkins> Tesco had run out of rocket. And prawns without a stupid marinade.
<daftykins> :(
<shauno> last time I went to tesco they were clean out of almonds.  any variety at all.  was kinda strange
<awilkins> I think they too are suffering from austerity.. of stock levels
<awilkins> Trying to cut down on perishable waste by just not having any...
<awilkins> Although almonds don't seem very perishable
<shauno> heh, austerity .. aren't they responsible for a surprising amount of the UK's cash turnover?
<awilkins> One pound in 7 is spent in Tesco was the last stat I heard
<shauno> sounds familiar.  nuts I tell ya
<diddledan_> I wonder what the other supermarkets go at
<diddledan_> tis prolly partly 'cos tesco does so much other chav-loved items like huge, but impossibly cheap TVs
<diddledan_> 56inch at 300Â£ kinda stupid prices
<shauno> 56"?!  that's not a TV, that's a solarium
<diddledan_> (caveat, invented stat)
<diddledan_> first out the box illustrates my point, however: http://www.tesco.com/direct/e-motion-50209g-50-inch-full-hd-1080p-led-tv-with-freeview/603-5651.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=603-5651
<shauno> I still can't use their delivery thing because they say my house doesn't exist
<shauno> my last house didn't exist either.  I'm starting to think they just don't like me
<diddledan_> you could get it delivered to work and then put it on your back for the journey home
<diddledan_> or.. does work exist?
<shauno> that'd be more annoying than just going to tesco.  at least I can get a bus from there
<shauno> that's a good question actually.  since we don't have a building number, we might not
<shauno> work's weird though.  I still have to call it "the digital building" for taxi drivers, even though most of them didn't live in the country when DEC still owned it
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> i'm so disappointed in Microsoft that they patched that IE zero day on XP =|
<daftykins> *after* its' announced death date no less
<diddledan_> I think it was a case of "omg this is REALLY serious"
<diddledan_> it's along the lines of the heartbleed for IE
<daftykins> yarr
<daftykins> would've been nice to help see the back of it though
<daftykins> but i suppose what it really is is they fixed it for paying support extension customers and decided to release it into the public domain, to prevent a fiasco in future if it were uncovered
<shauno> yeah.  leaving that one would have been a nice big talking point.  THIS is why you need to move off XP.  not hypotheticals
<diddledan_> yeah
<diddledan_> it'ld be nice to say "look at all these holes you've got"
<shauno> well, "this hole that's in the news" vs "the other holes that probably exist"
<shauno> instead of trying to convince them that one day their belt may come lose, you can point out that their pants are around their ankles *now*
<mapp> evening
<daftykins> what-o sir
<daftykins> hrmm i still haven't committed to a decision about my storage
<daftykins> this 2TB WD Red is just sat here on the desk doing nothing
<ali1234> shauno: now we know how many holes it takes to fill the albert hall?
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Icy-Box-IB-545SSK-5-Bay-Channel/dp/B006BQYSFA
<daftykins> hmm this looks nice
<popey> see the reviews?
<daftykins> hmm
<ali1234> it's icy box
<ali1234> it's going to have rubbish fans
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> really, just throw away the ones it comes with and buy proper ones
<daftykins> i've had a fair few of the 555SSK's in other setups actually that do great
<daftykins> not encountered any fan issues
<daftykins> they refer to SATA 3Gbps but really that shouldn't have anything to do with the enclosure
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Icy-Box-IB-555SSK-Channel-Backplane/dp/B002BLZ8TO/
<diddledan_> I've noticed a proliferation of the name "startech" on a lot of listings for io cards
<penguin42> daftykins: It depends if they did the board/connector design well enough to manage 6Gbps
<daftykins> indeed
<diddledan_> things like tv cards specifically I've seen
<penguin42> diddledan_: startech do a lot of io cards/adapters
<penguin42> diddledan_: Quite a range of fairly random convertery type things, IP KVMs, leads, all random stuff like that
<diddledan_> yeah
<shauno> I think they made my mini-rack
<penguin42> it's normally pretty well made, not necessarily that cheap but they normally have some way of connecting one random thing to one other random thing via some other thing
<diddledan_> ooh: https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/doctor-who-star-matt-smith-joins-terminator-5-cast-161836084.html
<diddledan_> sounds tasty
<DGJones> czajkowski: One for you I think http://3milliondogs.com/rescue/24-pugs-who-were-saved-and-ready-for-adoption
<daftykins> ok i caved in... 5 x 2TB ordered
<daftykins> that means i'm gonna go from 5TB -> 10TB *and* cut down on power consumption yet again
<diddledan_> daftykins, you know it makes sense
<daftykins> i do sir, i do
<daftykins> mainly given the age of these suckers though - and being out of warranty
<daftykins> 6 years is a loooong time
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/474845-wd-care-express-1-extra-year-warranty-1-day-rma-wdcexp0010-e
<daftykins> oooh hey
<shauno> amazon's a little strange sometimes.  "Want it Thursday, 8 May? Order it within 91 hrs 42 mins and choose Two-Day Delivery at checkout."
<penguin42> haha yeh that's weird
<daftykins> Â£20 off ebuyer for 5 x WD care extended
<daftykins> can't really sniff at that
 * bashrc sniffs
<daftykins> d'aww what's up bashrc ?
<bashrc> just sniffing at it
<bashrc> the pump.io plaintextpocalypse has been averted btw
<ali1234> the what?
<bashrc> the plaintextpocalypse
<bashrc> passwords.  in plain text.  in the server logs
<ali1234> "pump.io is designed to be a standalone server" and it's written in node. why am i not surprised that it leaks passwords...
<bashrc> don't worry, the bug only took 10 months to fix
<ali1234> lol
<daftykins> rapid turnaround!
<bashrc> trouble is that pump.io has a very low bus factor
<ali1234> javascript man... should never have been allowed outside the browser
<MooDoo> evening all
<mapp> evening
<mapp> going pub @ 10..gotta make sure i dont mug it...cant be at the casino at 6am
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yes, BAD maps
<mapp> ive got form for this stupid behaviour
<daftykins> no moar gambling for you! there's a server to build!
<mapp> few beers..hmm better go out
<mapp> few more hmm casino..few more few more
<mapp> ive gotta be up at 10;30 am too!
<daftykins> D: !
<robotninja> Mmmm beer would be nice. Alas, none in the house.
<daftykins> i have some but don't find the desire when home alone
<mapp> i do/did
<mapp> my old routine would be
<daftykins> though that may also have something to do with it being cheap carlsberg export :D
<mapp> finish work 5am..go to genting casino have a few..head down to grosvenor casino till 6am
<mapp> then head to tesco for some home beers
<mapp> 3/4 times a week heh
<shauno> I've got into the strange habit of having one.  just one.  10-years-ago shaun would be so confused
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-03
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7j3l9a6zassx7q/IMG_20140503_053409.jpg
<daftykins> today's dinosaur
<daftykins> (:
<daftykins> pencil unlocked multiplier! \o/
<mapp> fuck
<mapp> daftykins
<mapp> spent my night at st thomas
<robotninja> daftykins: nice fossil :) I came across pretty much a full AthlonXP system under the stairs, everything but the case.
<mapp> ywhen my mum was in kings ;/
<mapp> didnt do her any goo eh
<mapp> she had a stroke in a coma for 2months
<EmsY> hey guys!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<EmsY> morning
<EmsY> I can't open my terminal in ubuntu 14.04
<EmsY> can someone help?
<brobostigon> define? gnome-terminal ?
<EmsY> yes, exactly
<brobostigon> is it installed to start with
<EmsY> ye lol. It was ok but then one day it just stopped workin
<EmsY> When I press ctrl + alt + F1 and type in my login/pw it says " Welcome to Ubuntu 14.04" and then it asks my login and pw again
<brobostigon> ok, that doesnt sound related to gnome-terminal, but something else.
<EmsY> ye, I think it's bash
<brobostigon> have you done a search on launchpad for bugs related.
<EmsY> there are similar. Maybe one or two threads but they didn't help me
<EmsY> oh, the only way how can I open a console is a Alt + F2 and type in env SHELL=/bin/sh gnome-termina
<brobostigon> maybe file a new bug then, if its brand new?
<EmsY> maybe.
<EmsY> I posted a thread in askubuntu.com
<EmsY> I hope someone will help.
<brobostigon> i dont use that site personally, but i know some do.
<EmsY> what site do you use?
<brobostigon> for which purpose?
<EmsY> for solving problems
<EmsY> if you have
<brobostigon> bugs.debian.org launchpad.net , and then ones related to quite a few different sw packages, including openvpn and many more.
<EmsY> which ubuntu do you have?
<brobostigon> i have installs of, the last two lts versions, debian testing and sid/unstable, and various other OS's like haiku-os and raspbian and a few others.
<arc__> good morning everyone
<arc__> Its a nice day out side
<robotninja> morning
<robotninja> yup, wish I had time to get out on the bike. hopefully it'll be this nice tomorrow too.
<mapp> FFS
<mapp> I mugged it again daftykins
 * mapp cant control himself
<mapp> big mug
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> afternoon o/
<dwatkins> or Guten Tag, as they say here in Munich
<MartijnVdS> or MÃ¼nchen, as they say there in MÃ¼nchen ;)
<dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> or "ganz genau".... ;)
<dwatkins> I saw someone yesterday I hadn't seen for 22 years, he and I had a good chat which included mention of elementary OS, so I have some research to do as to what it's like.
<bashrc> elementary OS seems to be the new shiny
<Azelphur> anyone care to help me with bumblebee? after updating to 14.04 it no longer works, Cannot access secondary GPU - error: [XORG] (EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA GPU at PCI:1:0:0
 * penguin42 grumbles; newsblur's android app needs a version of Android too new for my ancient phone
<penguin42> I guess I could try the new CyanogenMod builds - my current CyanogenMod is ancient but they never officially did a cyanogenmod 10 for this
<Krenair> My laptop is broken. I was trying to update it to 14.04, but it got stuck trying to load stuff (I can see the startup log, for some reason).
<Krenair> I could get to recovery mode and mount the FS and stuff there, but fsck would get stuck when run from the menu (which stops me from using the dpkg repair tool).
<Krenair> Then someone suggested that I run update-initramfs from a root shell and now it's even more broken: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10971457/IMG_20140503_225345.jpg
<Krenair> uh, that's https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10971457/IMG_20140503_230808.jpg
<daftykins> Krenair: fsck from a live session CD/DVD/USB may be more fruitful to start
<Krenair> daftykins, 506799/17367040 files (0.6% non-contiguous), 6659711/69463296 blocks
<daftykins> was that purely "fsck /dev/sdx" or did you use any switches?
<Krenair> sudo fsck -f /dev/sda5
<daftykins> is it a multi-boot system, for sda5 to be root?
<Krenair> yes
<daftykins> hrmm, do you have a separate /home?
<Krenair> daftykins, no
<daftykins> a decent backup disk? :)
<Krenair> also I've been unable to mount my private home folder from this live cd
<Krenair> So while I don't think I have anything important there, I can't actually check.
<daftykins> oh, encrypted?
<Krenair> yeah
<daftykins> ah i have no experience with that :(
<Krenair> ecryptfs-mount-private says "ERROR: Encrypted private directory is not setup properly"
<daftykins> that one's beyond me unfortunately
<daftykins> the pic of your screen almost suggests UUIDs changed, i wonder if you could mount and chroot your install then re-run grub-install
<directhex> ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/
<directhex> from the initramfs prompt
<directhex> will answer the "did uuids change?" question
<directhex> you can also force matters from grub - hit e to edit an entry, change the rot= param to /dev/sda5 instead of a uuid, press f10 to boot
<Krenair> directhex, no such file or directory
<daftykins> is that in a live session?
<Krenair> that's from the initramfs prompt
<Krenair> it was fine from the live cd
<Krenair> any ideas daftykins/directhex?
<daftykins> did you try editing grub for a one time boot as he suggested?
<daftykins> switching the root FS UUID for sda5
<Krenair> daftykins, I also checked ls -l /dev/sda5
<Krenair> which showed nothing
<daftykins> Krenair: what were you trying to do with that command?
<Krenair> check to see if it would be able to find the drive itself directly
<daftykins> hrmm not sure that's too fruitful
<daftykins> 'sudo fdisk -l' should show those partitions still exist
 * penguin42 pokes p42phone
<p42phone> Oww
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> penguin42: how was your day sir?
<penguin42> not too bad, but I seem to have spent too long fighting android on my phone
<penguin42> and you?
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> yeah :) went to a friends who's just bought a house and moving in
<daftykins> so sorta began to look at helping get the phone socket setup fathomed for making their broadband service decent
<penguin42> ah, muscles needed
<daftykins> XD i'm quite wrong for the job there but i did help move some wardrobes and dismantle a bed back at his parents to take over \o/
<daftykins> and even got a free feed
<Krenair> daftykins, hm, yeah it does show that
<Krenair> guess I'll try this grub idea
<Krenair> daftykins, can I put comments in this file?
<daftykins> editing a one time GRUB boot? nah
<Krenair> guess I should record this UUID then
<daftykins> you just wanna test for now, it won't permanently commit changes
<daftykins> you just edit for one boot
<Krenair> oh right
<Krenair> daftykins, same error, this time for /dev/sda5
<daftykins> which is that?
<Krenair> instead of the /dev/disk/by-uuid/...
<Krenair> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10971457/IMG_20140503_230808.jpg
<daftykins> what does it actually say? "...does not..." ?
<Krenair> does not exist
<daftykins> that is very odd indeed
<daftykins> were you able to mount /dev/sda5 in a live session?
<Krenair> yes
<daftykins> contents looked ok?
<Krenair> there wasn't much to see
<Krenair> but it looked ok
<Krenair> I couldn't mount my private directory but meh
<daftykins> Krenair: if you want any data from it i think you should focus on that and then just clean install
<daftykins> failing finding someone more experienced that is :)
<daftykins> oh wait, hrmm
<daftykins> boot the live session, mount sda5 then chroot it and try to finish off your upgrade
<Krenair> 'chroot it'?
<daftykins> !chroot
<lubotu3> A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<Krenair> um
#ubuntu-uk 2014-05-04
<Krenair> okay so I should run a command to finish the upgrade in the mounted drive, but chrooted so it thinks it runs on the drive
<daftykins> correct
<Krenair> daftykins, tried to install 'dchroot' as the page suggests, it can't be located
<daftykins> shouldn't be necessary, just "sudo mkdir /mnt/chroot" then "sudo mount -t ext4 /dev/sda5 /mnt/chroot"
<daftykins> then "sudo mount -o bind /proc /mnt/chroot/proc"
<Krenair> done
<daftykins> that should be enough, then "chroot /mnt/chroot"
<daftykins> not sure if that needs sudo or not
<Krenair> ok, great
<Krenair> now I need to finish the upgrade
<daftykins> then try "sudo apt-get update"
<daftykins> to see if it has networking
<Krenair> I'm root, don't need sudo
<Krenair> hm, no networking
<daftykins> it might just be lacking DNS
<daftykins> open another terminal that's still in the live session - presumably that's online fine?
<Krenair> yeah, I just logged it into the wifi
<daftykins> cool
<Krenair> but the programs under chroot can't use it
<daftykins> so in the chroot terminal, you may need to force some DNS server IPs by overwriting /etc/resolv.conf
<daftykins> it'll need to contain at least "nameserver x.x.x.x" where those X's are either your router IP, or just pick something like google's with 8.8.8.8
<Krenair> that apparently doesn't exist, creating
<Krenair> yay, apt-get update runs now
<daftykins> excellent
<daftykins> now try a "sudo apt-get -f install"
<Krenair> it said run dpkg --configure -a
<Krenair> which appears to be completing the install
<daftykins> :)
<Krenair> Might this fix the issue with initramfs?
<daftykins> it may
<Krenair> great
<Krenair> thanks for all your help so far daftykins
<Krenair> (especially at this ridiculous hour)
<daftykins> :) my pleasure
<daftykins> i'm often on the nightowl shift
<Krenair> ugh. lots of dependency issues
<Krenair> it's leaving lots of thing unconfigured
<Krenair> and halts processing after too many...
<daftykins> is it still going or completed?
<Krenair> it stopped
<Krenair> too many errors
<daftykins> erk, perhaps it's in a significantly broken state neither in the prior OS nor in the new
<daftykins> stuck in limbo
<Krenair> I'll try apt-get -f install now
<Krenair> which appears to be setting up a lot of stuff, not many errors
<Krenair> maybe it'll even resolve some issues the other command was having
<daftykins> could be, apt-get doing the install is kinda the daddy to dpkg as the child in some ways
<daftykins> how's it looking?
<Krenair> still running
<Krenair> It actually just ran update-initramfs
<daftykins> mmm lots to do perhaps
<daftykins> ooh
<Krenair> Which is one of the commands that got me into this mess
<daftykins> perhaps configured right now
<daftykins> right as in correctly
<Krenair> ah, okay
<Krenair> so it just finished and listed some errors
<daftykins> can you pastebin them?
<Krenair> one moment
<Krenair> daftykins, http://pastebin.com/3WLxCZps
<Krenair> not particularly useful
<daftykins> sec
<Krenair> also http://pastebin.com/tCHz90yw
<daftykins> running it again continue at all?
<daftykins> ah it is missing /dev/pts
<daftykins> think that can sometimes be an extra step in a chroot
<Krenair> do we need that?
<daftykins> not sure
<daftykins> apt-get -f install just keep repeating now?
<daftykins> or does it attempt to make progress :D
<Krenair> looks like it is not making any more changes
<daftykins> from your pastebins where it says "...but it is not configured yet"
<daftykins> try running "dpkg-reconfigure <packagename>" on some of those
<Krenair>  /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: network-manager is broken or not fully installed
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> well that's pretty conclusive
<Krenair> my system is broken?
<daftykins> just that package
<Krenair> well
<Krenair> and all the other packages listed
<Krenair> like libpam-systemd:amd64 (that looks like a fairly important package, just going by name...)
<Krenair> aptdaemon
<Krenair> pulseaudio, ubuntu-system-service, policykit-1
<daftykins> i presume an attempt of "apt-get install --reinstall network-manager" will just complain about other stuff not working?
<Krenair> daftykins, E: Internal Error, No file name for network-manager:amd64
<Krenair> daftykins, maybe I should try booting and see what happens?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> i think as you pointed out some pretty serious stuff is broken though
<Krenair> daftykins, yay, it booted
<Krenair> and got to the login screen
<Krenair> some styling a bit messed up, but meh
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> surprising
<daftykins> it could probably still do with a lot of sorting out
<Krenair> I can log in!
<Krenair> And see my files!
<daftykins> step 1: backup time :D
<Krenair> Thank you so much daftykins !
<Krenair> (but we still have stuff to do.)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> glad i could help
<Krenair> Running "sudo dpkg --configure -a" now. "sudo apt-get -f install" next.
<daftykins> i'm gonna have to head to bed now
<Krenair> yay, looks like that fixed everything.
<daftykins> oh really :O
<Krenair> thank you again daftykins
<daftykins> excellent 8)
<daftykins> np! you may repay me by backing up ;)
<daftykins> g'night \o
<Krenair> g'night
<mapp> oh
<mapp> no
<dwatkins> moin moin
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMat1> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<Myrtti_> D is explaining me his school. Finnish schools don't have houses, so I have to draw from my circle of experience. "Is it like Gryffindor?" :-D
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti_> "YOU WENT TO HOGWARTS!"
<brobostigon> i think any little boy or girl would be excited by that.
<Myrtti_> I didn't realise how the school holidays went either before I read HP's
<brobostigon> hp's?
<MartijnVdS> harry potter
<brobostigon> yes, sorry. brain fail. brian still half asleep
<brobostigon> brain*
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> why would two seperate domains, result in, one pointing at /var/www and the other pointing at /var/www/wordpress and both resulting in the same page coming up.?
<penguin42> because you've accidentally overridden the wordpress one with the /var/www one?
<brobostigon> the only thing i can think of, is for some reason both domains seem to be pointing at /var/www/wordpress ,
<brobostigon> the question is why, where do i look.
<penguin42> I guess at the site def for the wordpress one?
<penguin42> but I'm not good at debugging this stuff
<brobostigon> def ?
<penguin42> the thing in apach2/sites-available?
<brobostigon> http://pastebin.com/bGip14pR
<brobostigon> that the one pointing at wordpress.
<penguin42> and what's the other one you have?
<brobostigon> thats the only one in there, except for 000-default.conf  default-ssl.conf
<penguin42> ok, so that's setting DocumentRoot which I think will set it for the whole host
<penguin42> what do you actually want to do?
<brobostigon> i want the right domain, pointing at the right place, one pointing at wordpress the other pointing at /var/www
 * penguin42 doesn't know how multiple domain names on the same thing work, but I read that as saying that for that port you get that document root, so I don't see how it selects based on the name
<brobostigon> so i change that documentroot, and theoreticlly it should point at the right place again?
<penguin42> but I don't understand what you've done for your other domain
<brobostigon> with MartijnVdS's help the other day, i setup the virtualdomain, for the domain welltravelledbear.co.uk to point at the wordpress folder.
<brobostigon> i dont know either, why that wont point at the place.
<penguin42> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/vhosts/name-based.html
<penguin42> so I think you need another one of those virtualhost sections with the other serveralias/servername that you want
<brobostigon> so i setup another virtualhost to point at /var/www ?
<penguin42>  'If no matching ServerName or ServerAlias is found in the set of virtual hosts containing the most specific matching IP address and port combination, then the first listed virtual host that matches that will be used.'
<penguin42> yeh I think so
<brobostigon> ok,
<penguin42> because my reading of that page is that if you don't have a servername/alias match then it just picks the 1st one
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> that seems to have done it.
<brobostigon> ty penguin42
<beilby> Ubuntu 14.04 please help, I cannot get one user to use a password at logon, user has a password set
<penguin42> is that just because they have the automatic login set?
<beilby> no, automatic login is not set
<beilby> to see if that would help I did set automatic login then reboot then remove again and reboot
<beilby> account was originally created without a password I think, then a password was set from command line, passwd, then was changed using the user settings dialog, we still have a situation where the user does not need to enter a password at desktop logon
<Krenair> So last night with the help of daftykins I managed to get my laptop back to a usable state. Now I've noticed some minor issues:
<Krenair> When I lock the computer and then go back on, I get two login screens, one after the other
<Krenair> On the main signon screen there is a white patch around where the user name and password input are
<Krenair> There is a similar white patch on the calendar around the alternative (non-local) clocks
<SuperEngineer> I still use 12.04.  Would I be correct in assuming it's ok to also install 14.04 to spare partition?
<SuperEngineer>  switch back to 12.04 & reinstal Grub from 12.04 to correct the order of things in grub selection & also be able select 14.04 [to give it a better try than just using live dvd]?
<SuperEngineer> [yeah gads - that was a long winded question!]
<penguin42> yeh that should work
<beilby> still have the issue
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: just be careful you know exactly which disk you're installing to
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: will do ;)
<popey> penguin42: no crash yet with upstream 3.14
<penguin42> popey: Promising - then you just have to apply the internal blame resolution operator
<popey> â»
 * SuperEngineer ponders on whether the release of 12.04 was 2 weeks too early... 
<SuperEngineer> If they'd just waited until after the my op... I could have done as sooo much bug hunting!
<SuperEngineer> [or have been sooo much of a pain in backside for reporting duplicates]  ;)
<popey> 12.04?
<popey> i keep mistyping 14.04 as 12.04
<beilby> what is the best thing to do with this user login without password issue?
<SuperEngineer> popey: correct - I do appear to be suffering the same 12.04 / 14.04 temptation.. is this a bug???
<SuperEngineer> bug: CRITICAL  no auto catch in 12.04 when meaning to type 14.04 or vice versa
<popey> http://launchpad.net/popey file a bug â»
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: file it against dwim
<Krenair> Also all of gedit's menus are disabled
<beilby> okay will submit as a bug
<SuperEngineer> bug #1315902
<lubotu3> bug 1315902 in popey "Ubuntu 14.04 released before *I* got to test it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315902
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist
<beilby> not sure if anyone is or has talked to me but have logged bug Bug 1315901
<lubotu3> bug 1315901 in popey "Problem, it is not possible to log onto Ubuntu 14.04 i386 desktop using a password using a specific account. My understanding is that an account created without a password, later a password was created using passwd, subsequently the password was changed using the "user accounts" dialog. Also tried turning on automatic login, rebooting, turning automatic login off again and rebooting." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131
<shauno> beilby: what does passwd --status thatuser say ?
<beilby> P 05/04/2014 0 99999 7 -1
<shauno> hm, so it's not locked.  odd
<penguin42> beilby: Tried logging in on the text console?
<beilby> no
<daftykins> what does that user's /etc/passwd entry look like?
<beilby> we get asked for password when installing packages etc.
<SuperEngineer> beilby: I think you have just looged your bug against popey!  Try looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<beilby> used the link in IRC text
<Myrtti_> who was it who had the ubuntu spicecollecton hot or not, AlanBell_ ?
<beilby> logging into the text console works with current password, does not work with a simple carriage return, I get to text console with CTRL,ALT,F2... is that correct?
<penguin42> yep
<penguin42> beilby: OK, so I think you're saying you can login to the text console, but not through the GUI?
<beilby> I can login at the GUI without a password using enter key or mouse click
<beilby> I can login to both, text console requires password GUI does not require password, would like password protection
<penguin42> nod
<beilby> passwd is hashed (/usr/bin/passwd)
<penguin42> we know that there is a password since that's what the text login is doing
<beilby> indeed
<penguin42> so it's only the lightdm config I guess that can autologin stuff?
<beilby> big security issue, the GUI does not require it to give access
<penguin42> right, but it's something that you're allowed to enable like that
<beilby> so need to disable
<penguin42> beilby: Can you cehck /etc/lightdm
<beilby> from command line?
<penguin42> beilby: I've got a /etc/lightdm/users.conf   with [UserAccounts] section showing minnimum-uid, hidden-users and hidden-shells
<penguin42> beilby: Yeh command line, are there any other files in /etc/lightdm or any other items in users.conf ?
 * SuperEngineer logs off to instal 14.04 on spare partition
<beilby> lightdm.conf  users.conf
<penguin42> beilby: Right, do you have an /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf - when I turned on auto login it added an entry to lightdm.conf
<penguin42> beilby: You should find it says autologin-user=youruser
<penguin42> beilby: so just to confirm as well, if you go to system settings, user accounts, select the user with the problem what does the 'Automatic Login' thing show?
<beilby> how do I display contents of lightdm.conf
<penguin42> cat lightdm.conf
<beilby> automatic login off in system settings
<penguin42> ok, what does that lightdm.conf look like
<beilby> [SeatDefaults] autologin-user=
<beilby> just those 2 lines
 * penguin42 is out of ideas - since that's where it seems to put users with autologins
<beilby> auto ogin is disabled, this user does not autologin
<beilby> you have to login manually
<penguin42> oh hmm, so you have to login manually - but it just works with a return?
<beilby> thats right yes
<penguin42> oh hmm
<beilby> where is that setting? seems strange given there is a password associated
<penguin42> I didn't know what you're seeing is possible
<beilby> would you agree it is a security issue then?
<penguin42> beilby: On your system yes, but it's not obvious to me what's wrong on your system yet
 * penguin42 will be back in ~20mins - I have a crumble to crumble
<beilby> sorry, I am no expert on Linux thanks for your help
<penguin42> beilby: OK, how many users do you have on this system?
<beilby> 2 users
<beilby> actually logged in as affected user atm
<penguin42> beilby: OK, and the two users, do they have similar usernames - it's not like one is a shorter version of the other or anything like that?  and the user with the problem, is the password 'normal' - i.e. no weird characters or anything?
<beilby> no nothing like that
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> beilby: So after you login as this user without the passowrd, I'd take a copy of /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log    you should see something like    Authentication complete for user  whatever  with return code 0        starting session ubuntu
<penguin42> beilby: I'd check you are seeing that - there are a lot of other messages as well - that file is the one that has a lot of the login debug
<beilby> getting cat: x-0-greeter.log: Permission denied
<beilby> got it with sudo
<beilby> yes I see Authentication complete for user  whatever  with return code 0
<beilby> also seeing Starting session ubuntu quite a few lines lower
<penguin42> beilby: OK, I think you need to file your bug by running the command     ubuntu-bug unity-greeter
<brobostigon> stargate, ch5, :)
<beilby> what should I put under further information?
<penguin42> beilby: You'd describe everything
<beilby> copy this transcript then?
<penguin42> beilby: Things like the way you need the password for a text login, the information about how it didn't originally have a password, then you set it, the contents of those /etc/lightdm files that we looked at before
<penguin42> beilby: can do - but don't miss anything out
<penguin42> beilby: Be clear about what works and what doesn't
<beilby> how about this
<beilby> two users on this system, other user works as exprcted. Other user does not, my understanding is that the faulty user was originally set without a password. Later a password was set with passwd, from this point onwards logging on to text console worked as expected with a password but logging on to GUI did not require a password simply pressing enter key was sufficient to logon
<penguin42> beilby: Put the important stuff first - the important stuff is that you can login with just the enter key on the gui, then make sure to note that it's only the gui
<beilby> draft 2
<beilby> Firstly I can logon with the affected account simply by pressing the enter key but only on the GUI. There are two users on this system, one user works as expected. Other user does not, my understanding is that the faulty user was originally set without a password. Later a password was set with passwd, from this point onwards logging on to text console worked as expected with a password but logging on to GUI did not require a password simply pre
<beilby> ssing enter key was sufficient to logon. Beyond this the password has been changed using the user settings dialog, also, automatic login has been enabled and enacted then removed again to no avail.
<penguin42> yeh go for it
<beilby> ticking  This bug is a security vulnerability?
<penguin42> beilby: Not sure - we don't know what's actually wrong on your machine
<beilby> OK done, my new bug is 1315919
<beilby> what do I do about bug 1315901
<lubotu3> bug 1315901 in popey "Problem, it is not possible to log onto Ubuntu 14.04 i386 desktop using a password using a specific account. My understanding is that an account created without a password, later a password was created using passwd, subsequently the password was changed using the "user accounts" dialog. Also tried turning on automatic login, rebooting, turning automatic login off again and rebooting." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131
<penguin42> are you sure it's 919 - I don't see it
<penguin42> oh, did you mark it security?
<beilby> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1315919
<lubotu3> Error: launchpad bug 1315919 not found
<beilby> user has password but GUI gives access to system without a password Edit    Ubuntu    âunity-greeterâ package    Bugs    Bug #1315919
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1315919 could not be found
<penguin42> beilby: Yeh it's hiding that one - I think because you set security on it, the security guys will look at it
<beilby> yes I think so
<beilby> what do I do about bug 1315901?
<lubotu3> bug 1315901 in popey "Problem, it is not possible to log onto Ubuntu 14.04 i386 desktop using a password using a specific account. My understanding is that an account created without a password, later a password was created using passwd, subsequently the password was changed using the "user accounts" dialog. Also tried turning on automatic login, rebooting, turning automatic login off again and rebooting." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131
<beilby> do I need to change information type on 919?
<penguin42> you should be able to close it
 * penguin42 goes to consume crumble
<beilby> not seeing that option
<beilby> how do I close bug 1315901? created in error
<lubotu3> bug 1315901 in popey "Problem, it is not possible to log onto Ubuntu 14.04 i386 desktop using a password using a specific account. My understanding is that an account created without a password, later a password was created using passwd, subsequently the password was changed using the "user accounts" dialog. Also tried turning on automatic login, rebooting, turning automatic login off again and rebooting." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131
<penguin42> beilby: I've closed it for you
<beilby> Thank you for all your help
<beilby> my preference is rhubarb
<daftykins> noooo, apple!
 * penguin42 burps apple crumble
<penguin42> twas good
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> so where's mine?
<dwatkins> I had it.
<daftykins> with hot custard i hope
<daftykins> ugh i pop out for 5 mins and dwatkins swoops in :(
<dwatkins> No, squirty cream.
<daftykins> that's infinitely inferior
 * penguin42 had his crumble neat
<daftykins> :o
<dwatkins> I hope there's lactose free custard.
<daftykins> nope.
<daftykins> should i call an ambulance?
<daftykins> aaah finally able to add more data to my array now that it's happy
<dwatkins> It's fine, normal milk just makes me fart a lot.
 * penguin42 flicks the lighter
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1lm0b70y2ikmiqv/array.png
<daftykins> oops.
<penguin42> daftykins: You need a pile of 2TB drives
<daftykins> i ordered some ;)
<Azelphur> what's the easiest way to move contacts from an iPhone to Android?
<maps|wrk> gah regular expressions confuse me
<daftykins> Azelphur: i think a mate bought an app when he upgraded ;)
<daftykins> maybe that was more a Windows prog
<maps|wrk> windows eh
<shauno> there's an app "my contacts backup" that'll export to vcf (yeah it's third-party, but it's free if you've got less than 500 contacts - http://mycontactsbackup.globile.biz )
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/xcmd355.jpg
<daftykins> wow.
<penguin42> that's ....odd
<popey> penguin42: 3.14 - still crashed
<penguin42> popey: hmm, and it's a solid hang - but alt-sysrq works?
<ali1234> popey: who is responsible for the ubuntu irc logs?
<ali1234> it would be infinitely easier to use if they were stored by channel/year/month/day instead of year/month/day/channel
<ali1234> this could even be done with symlinks, thus not breaking existing links
<penguin42> popey: SO you've got an ssh into this laptop from somewhere else; can you just leave it running a vmstat 1    it should print out a line of stuff every second
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-27
<ball> hello minsky
<mappps> is it a bank holiday tomorrow?
<ball> I do hope so.
<ball> Oh wait, I don't get bank holidays.
<mappps> someone told me it is (here in gib)
<mappps> so is it in UK too?
<mappps> i trasferred some money and it said 1 working day is why im wondering
<ball> I don't know. I don't have a UK calendar this year.
<ball> Usually I have one up in the study.
<mappps> hm
<ball> I should pay my satellite television bill this week.
<mappps> a month till i go back to Knightsbridge:D
<ball> Is that in London?
<mappps> 24-29th may short visit
<mappps> yea
<mappps> where are you ?
<mappps> Then back to gib:)
<ball> I live in Illinois, USA.
<ball> brb
<mappps> nice
<ball> It's alright. Not like home but it has its good days.
<mappps> where's home?
<ball> Wiltshire.
<mappps> heard of
<mappps> manchester?
<ball> I am aware of Manchester.
<mappps> no i mean wiltshire is manchester?
<ball> No, Manchester's in the midlands I think.
<mappps> where's wiltshire
<ball> Central Southern England, though we consider ourselves "West Country" I think.
<ball> ...which made Cornish frinds point and laugh.
<mappps> oh
<ball> friends*
<mappps> nowhere near surrey then?
<mappps> thats where im from orig
<ball> I think my grandfather used to live in Surrey, on my mother's side.
<mappps> nice place
 * ball nods
<ball> I've been there once or twice.
<ball> Not in recent years though.
<mappps> i swapped surrey/london for gib
<mappps> doubt il ever move back really
<ball> mappps: I can relate to that. Even if I could afford to go back it would be a difficult transition.
<mappps> yea
<mappps> i haven;t lived with family for ~12 years (since uni)
<mappps> no way i'd go back
<mappps> and it's a super safe place here
<mappps> like london muggings are normal..here it'd make front page news
 * ball nods
<ball> Here they mostly just shoot you.
<mappps> here it's just non existant
<mappps> last month there was a murder..and everyone was worried
<mappps> turned out the girlfriend murdered her kids boyfriend and killed herself
<ball> Well that's unfortunate.
<Knightwise> mornin
 * ball waves
<Knightwise> heya ball ! hows it goin
<ball> Not too bad. I'm anout to turn in.
<ball> There are things I should be doing but I'm too tired to care.
<Knightwise> just got up on this end of the blue sphere.
<ball> Knightwise: That makes sense.
<Knightwise> hahah :) I'm in my productive hour. That quiet hour before the rush starts is when I pound everyone down with my caffinated emails :p
 * ball grins
<Knightwise> need to get my Raspberry pi 2 finalised today.
<Knightwise> Was thinking of using it as a desktop by that is a little overkill. I have plenty of desktops and vms to play with.
<ball> My Raspberry Pi is running at the office.
<Knightwise> I have a raspberry pi 1 running as my main terminal machine. I ssh into it, vpn into it, it runs irssi, telegram, my calibre server etc
<Knightwise> very pleased with it :)
<ball> I like mine but I'm looking forward to the better NIC on the Raspberry Pi 2
<Knightwise>  I'm gonna try to run Mate on mine. Always handy to have a gui , especially when I want to use it to drag new books into my calibre library
 * Knightwise loves to read
 * ball nods
<ball> I should charge up my Kobo
<Knightwise> I have a Kobo too. use it mostly in the summer to read outdoors
<Knightwise> when I read indoors or at night I use my tablet
<ball> I can understand that.
<ball> I've not tried Calibre though.
<Knightwise> its great , The web browser on my Kobo even iterfaces with it :)
<Knightwise> so i can download books off the calibre webserver on my PI straight to my Kobo
<ball> Nice.
<ball> I should go to bed.
<Knightwise> Get some sleep dude :)
<ball> Thanks
<ball> I have to be up in a little under five hours
<Knightwise> I need my 8 hours or i'm a zombie
<MooDoo> morning all
<Knightwise> hey MooDoo
<Knightwise> how are you doing dude
<MooDoo> Knightwise: yeah i'm doing ok thanks, you?
<Knightwise> ok for a monday :)
<directhex_> there we go, my 2 mystery chips have been added to lspci
<MartijnVdS> you have mystery chips?
<directhex_> MartijnVdS: two USB controllers not known to pci.ids
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: hey dude, how's life?
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> I installed *Debian* on my Laptop yesterday.. hadn't actually done that since Ubuntu 4.10 came out :)
<popey> golly
<MartijnVdS> But somehow I've gotten used to that left sidebar thing ;)
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> (and no other DE seems to provide one easily)
<foobarry> i moved plank to the left to make the switch easier for mrs foobarry
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<foobarry> my workplace looks quite pleasant in the sun http://i.imgur.com/EabmdcV.jpg
<bashrc> looks nice
<bashrc> are you on a barge?
<foobarry> heh no onthe river bank
<foobarry> walking in to work
<foobarry> however the river boat people congregrate here in sunny weather
<bashrc> I have seen barges with solar panels, so it would be possible to live on a barge and stay connected
<foobarry> you can get wifi from the uni with a good antenna
<popey> there's a couple of ubuntu contributors who live on boats
<zmoylan-pi> break out the cantenna... :-)
<foobarry> they should probably have a mesh thing on house boats
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Tell a Story Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> and as soon as you made a mesh network some gobdaw would try and run netflix on it soaking up all the bandwidth
<popey> golly https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/592612273782423552
<czajkowski> popey: it's a pretty big thing I'm flying home to vote :)
<zmoylan-pi> no postal vote?
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: nope
<popey> what are you voting on?
<czajkowski> I'lll go BArcelona -> Stockholm -> Shannon and back to UK that week
<czajkowski> popey: marriage equality
<popey> oh yes.
<popey> thought it was abortion
<czajkowski> popey: exactly YES :D
<zmoylan-pi> AND allowing for a president younger than 35
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: ag yes that throw away vote
<foobarry> voting by proxy not allowed?
<czajkowski> nope
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of folk on twitter seem to have sorted the postal vote thing
<foobarry> i already voted in teh UK general election
<bashrc> vote early and often
<foobarry> helps with smug face when people are trying last ditch attempts
<czajkowski> popey: see pm :)
<foobarry> evernote is really annoying sometimes
<foobarry> certain lack of intuivity
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think by now all devices would have a memopad like one in palmos that 'just worked'
<foobarry> what's google keep thing like?
<foobarry> they could rule the market
<foobarry> as evernote seem to struggle
<foobarry> doesn't quite seem to be achieving the same thing as evernote
<foobarry> i use evernote as a document storage system, not a temporal post it throaway todo list thing
<diplo> foobarry: I use keep, works ok for me but I only use it for shopping lists and things like that
<zmoylan-pi> i use a text file in dropbox.  separated by dates and hashtags.  works for me.
<bashrc> I use a git repo and org-agenda
<popey> https://twitter.com/harrym/status/592618805542711296 interesting to anyone running wordpress
<bashrc> years ago I stopped using wordpress mainly because it seemed a chore to maintain. There seemed to be a never-ending stream of security patches
<popey> well, it auto updates now
<popey> but it's zero day today
<davmor2> JamesTait: Once upon a time in a galaxy far far away telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
<bashrc> for blogging I now use a flat file based system. far easier to maintain and with a smaller attack surface
<zmoylan-pi> isn't everyday a zero day for wordpress? :-P
<ali1234> heh, that vuln is weaksauce
<ali1234> who enables the online plugin and theme editors anyway?
<zmoylan-pi> if the platform is aimed at a lot of non technical people... many
 * awilkins remembers a WordPress instance with over 100 plugins enabled at his old job
<awilkins> On Windows
<zmoylan-pi> did they leave the doors and windows unlocked too just to be sure? :-P
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: how do chap how's life?
<popey> bigcalm: enjoying GTA5? :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: not too shabby ta, yourself?
<bigcalm> popey: yes. Loving it. Having to play in short bursts though. Otherwise I'd get sucked in for hours
<popey> heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: a tiny bit busy but other than that grand thanks and looking forward to the caravan for the long weekend :)
<bigcalm> Also, I had been close to rage quitting on the Rampage mission
<popey> I dialed down the detail and it now runs at a decent framerate here
<bigcalm> For the most part it looks fine to me. Little bit jerky in the city with lots happening though. Might dial it down as well
<bigcalm> Love Trevor. He is so well written
<bigcalm> That said, he also scares the crap out of me
<bigcalm> davmor2: busy? But the release has happened. Surely you should be relaxing now
<bigcalm> popey: have you tried the online bit yet?
<popey> briefly
<bigcalm> Same
<popey> i have it at 720p which made a big difference
<bigcalm> Are you popeydc, by any chance?
<bigcalm> Interesting
<popey> yes
<popey> at 1080p i was running ~30 fps
<popey> now it's 720p at ~70+ fps
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<popey> still looks great.
<bigcalm> Cool. Will play later tonight
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> I think I'm enjoying this more than IV
<bigcalm> The sense of freedom is very welcome
<popey> yeah, totally
<popey> not getting 5* for crossing a bridge is nice
<popey> stealing a helicopter and flying away is fun
<popey> i do like the scammers who try to claim someone is being attacked and when you give chase they attack you
<popey> I usually gave my gun out ready :)
<bigcalm> Oh!
<bigcalm> I hadn't thought that some of them might be scammers
<bigcalm> I've bought suppressors for all of my guns. Makes life a lot easier
<bigcalm> Did you manage to get the bug van without the alarm being raised?
<foobarry> hello sir, i'm calling because i've been told you were in a car accident
<foobarry> (put on mute after saying hello)
<davmor2> oi ubuntu-uk no gta-V-uk ;)
<foobarry> i can just hear this little voice on the phone on my desk
<foobarry> hello...hello...can you hear me?
 * bigcalm tickles davmor2 with some fun
 * popey fills in his lenovo battery recall form
<popey> biab
<popey> bah no eligible
<bigcalm> Danger of explosion?
<popey> http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/hf004122#special
<diplo> popey / bigcalm not played gta v at all before ?
<bigcalm> diplo: no
<diplo> OK, tip I learned after :)
<popey> no
<bigcalm> diplo: The only console I have is a Wii U
<diplo> When you get to the Lester scenes, buy stocks in whatever company he asks you to do something about :)
<bigcalm> Makes sense
<diplo> Makes life a lot easier, I'm debating playing it again to do that, quite enjoyed it
<diplo> Would like it on the PC, but I don't think my old beast could run it
<bigcalm> Except for Live Invader. As we made the price plummet
<diplo> Might also try for gold / 100% on everything this time
<bigcalm> I like that I can play with an Xbox 360 controller for everything and then switch over to keyboard and mouse when I need to play with guns
<bigcalm> Terrible at aiming with a job pad
<diplo> So am I, although got better
<diplo> Bought the kids Halo this weekend, I was actually quite good at it :P_
<bigcalm> You bought it for yourself
<popey> I can't watch films set in NY or LA now without thinking of GTA :)
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Yikes! I have two Lenovo 9-cells here....
<diplo> bigcalm haha, nah kids have been hounding me for ages
<diplo> Their friends play it
<popey> i had to fill the form in manually because the auto-detector thing requires windows
<TwistedLucidity> If the Lenovo site ever loads, I might be able to find out
<popey> it actually asks you why you're doing it manually!
<TwistedLucidity> "Because you hate freedom, Lenovo"
<ali1234> yes, is it a free form field?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Site is so very, very s-l-o-w.....
<popey> yes
<TwistedLucidity> Is this a new recall? Because Lenovo have had to do this many, many times
<ali1234> any details on the actual fault?
<popey> i have no idea, i got the link from foobarry last week iirc
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: All the previous ones have been about over-heating, fire, explosion, stealing your last Rolo
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: says they are expanding the existing recall
<TwistedLucidity> I wouldn't know, I can't get on the site!
<ali1234> well now you do :)
<ali1234> april 21st 2015
<davmor2> yay mine's not listed
<ali1234> nor mine, but it is really old
<TwistedLucidity> Damned thing just times out....
<ali1234> problem may be at your end, it works fine here
<ali1234> it's not even slow
<davmor2> popey: my laptop is about 2 and 1/2 years old so you know what that means right :D
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Site has always been nearly unusable for me
<TwistedLucidity> Probably VirginMedia
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: it's slow here but it works I'm on virgin
<TwistedLucidity> Works well on Windows, I am going to change my User agent.....
<TwistedLucidity> Seems I am no eligible. Guess that's a good thing
<popey> TwistedLucidity: works fine here, also on VM
<popey> davmor2: mine is over 3 now.
<popey> not seen a new one I want
 * zmoylan-pi still has an original olpc here...
<zmoylan-pi> still the best screen on a mobile device i have ever used
<TwistedLucidity> popey: It's find on the Windows box, just not Kubuntu. Very strange
<davmor2> popey: this will be 6 years, oh how the time flies :)
<popey> https://www.flickr.com/photos/c64tv
<zmoylan-pi> jetpac \o/
<bigcalm> Fantastic
<ali1234> wow
<popey> i like the skool daze and paradroid ones
<popey> the voxel thing reminds me of cube world
<diddledan> I don't get why voxels are being so popular
<diddledan> seems everyone and his dog wants to create a voxel game
<awilkins> Because Minecraft did so well
<awilkins> Have you seen Notch's house?
<diddledan> also minecraft seems to be getting everyone to do "low res fctw"
<diddledan> ftw**
<zmoylan-pi> people don't want minecraft since ms bought it?
<diddledan> I wonder what the long-term plan is for minecraft now ms own it
<awilkins> Notch's House : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhM56v9UVQ
<awilkins> That's why there are so many voxel games
<awilkins> The tail end of people going "Wowzer, that Minecraft thing is doing awfully well, isn't it?" and jumping on the bandwagon
<awilkins> I doubt that people stopped liking Minecraft since MS bought it
<zmoylan-pi> aren't ms adding downloadable content to minecraft?
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen a few complaints already over that
<diddledan> that house is way OTT
<shauno> I don't think msft have done anything at all with it yet.  the "complaints" are scaremongering
<zmoylan-pi> if you were handed a few billion wouldn't you go for volcano lair or evil villan ship instead? :-)
<shauno> not to say I trust msft much further than I could throw them, but waiting for them to actually do something before I whine about it :)
<awilkins> I would find the house a bit much
<diddledan> I don't think I'd like to live there
<diddledan> I like cosy
<awilkins> Community
<diddledan> and community (no, wait, I'm a hermit, community doesn't really count)
<awilkins> If I had unlimited money and Elon-Musk-like resources I'd have a town pad within walking distance of all the fun stuff, and a country pad with a nice kitchen garden
<awilkins> And a hyperloop subway that went between them in < 10 minutes
<zmoylan-pi> or a jetpack...
<awilkins> Naah, practical Jetpack technology is basically impossible ATM
<zmoylan-pi> ok an autogyro
<zmoylan-pi> hipster helicopter :-)
<awilkins> Little Nellie from the Bond film
<awilkins> Retrohipster
<zmoylan-pi> with it's addons of course
<diddledan> america are trying to pin a charge of unlicensed aircraft on a guy with an autogiro who landed on some green space outside their capitol building
<zmoylan-pi> he was a postman and he was delivering letters...
<diddledan> that's the guy
<shauno> seems like one of the easier charges to make stick.  they have some exemptions for ultralights but they all have geographic restrictions (built-up areas, airports, etc)
<zmoylan-pi> not sure they ever managed to prosecute lawn chair larry
<TwistedLucidity> IIRC an autogryo can fly faster than a helicopter
<zmoylan-pi> well yes and no.  not much development has gone into them since wwii
<zmoylan-pi> and they've pushed helicopters to the limit
<TwistedLucidity> Physics is a buggre like that
<zmoylan-pi> 293mph for an unassisted (no attached jets for thrust) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_X3
<zmoylan-pi> pity the canadian swingwing didn't take off (pardon the pun) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84
<zmoylan-pi> *tiltwing
<TwistedLucidity> The Osprey is a thing, innit?
<TwistedLucidity> Also there was some X-plane or other that was a jumped-up copter but could lock the "rotors" and in effect have a pair of forward/aft-swept wings
<zmoylan-pi> with a horrendous safety record
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit of an f35 in budget terms...
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yes it's a bird ;)
<arsen> hh the macbook 12 1.4 petabyte edition
<daftykins> diddledan: two failed disks from the _same user!_
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> jeez
<diddledan> you're getting silly with it :-p
<daftykins> ;]
<davmor2> daftykins: well if you will put computers in magnets room you will have to expect this kinda thing
<penguin42> what are you doing with them - mri?
<daftykins> no these are all helpees asking for support in #ubuntu
<daftykins> i tend to go from "my system is a little slow..." to diagnosing a dead disk pretty quick XD
<zmoylan-pi> does he work at the sledgehammer testing lab?
<diddledan> I think daftykins either has shares in the disc companies OR he invents faults that aren't real
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> *disk
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> no, disk is for floppies - disc is for hdds
<davmor2> shiny spinning platters?
<daftykins> diddledan: you lie!
<daftykins> disk is for square, disc is for round \o/
<diddledan> nope, it's the truth
<daftykins> well, or rectangles
<daftykins> -ular :/
<diddledan> disk is an abbreviation of diskette whereas disc is a circular thing
<daftykins> i disagree
<davmor2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_disc
<daftykins> ah yes the finest resource known to man
<foobarry> hello..
<daftykins> hi
<diddledan> OED says disk for everything
<davmor2> daftykins: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/componentprofiles/p/p_hdd.htm
<MartijnVdS> disque
<davmor2> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Generic-Hard-Disk-Drive-250GB/dp/B000OUI8QO
<daftykins> why are you linking me to this crap 0o
<foobarry> so there's some twitter feeds that have lots of dupes
<diddledan> aah yes, it's obviously disc with a C for HDDs because windows uses C to indicate such
<foobarry> i would like to write a twitter bot that retweets only unique stories and i can follow that instead
<diddledan> i.e. C:\windows
<foobarry> sound easyish?
<diddledan> C:\ means disC:\ :-p
<diddledan> I believe, also, that I've earned troll-of-the-day with that one :-D
<davmor2> daftykins: sorry it was for diddledan I was backing up your disk argument :D
<davmor2> like what I did there :D
<diddledan> obviously disks are for KDE users
<daftykins> kallthethings!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins, davmor2, diddledan: your names confuse :P
<daftykins> o0
<popey> evening slackers
<MartijnVdS> hey popey
<diddledan> marnin
<mappps> csi cyber seems ok if you stick with it
<mappps> did you watch aymore diddledan
<mappps> 1st ep sucked but ive carried on..on e8 now
<diddledan> mappps: my downloader missed e6 so I haven't seen that or 7 or 8 yet because I didn't want to do it out-of-order
<mappps> ah ok
<mappps> you agree it got better after e1
<diddledan> aye
<mappps> i almost dumped it after the 1st ep;p
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-28
<MooDoo> morning all
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Indeed it is.
<TwistedLucidity> And a good one too
<TwistedLucidity> It's sunny, not a cloud in the sky and the last day of the grind for a while.
<TwistedLucidity> Yay! \o/
<MooDoo> bit cloudy here, but it's good although it was a bit cold this morning
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea what you mean
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: why do you find our nicks confusing?
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> popey: You are very diplomatic I must say
<popey> heh
<diplo> Basically want to sell something but I can't be bothered to learn how to do it properly :/
<popey> well, debian packaging isn't straightforward
<diplo> Yeah but as you say, first hit when googling for it returns good results, he's just not trying
<bashrc> debian package is not that hard, but has a lot of rules
<ali1234> good results for how to make debian packages? no, they don't exist
<diplo> :)
<directhex> in the simplest case, debian packaging is really easy
<directhex> but knowing how to handle anything beyond the simplest case is often learned knowledge, rather than googleable knowledge
<diplo> yeah its what I mentioned in my emails, jot down what you do and learn by your mistakes until you find the correct way of doing things
<ali1234> there is no way to even know if you are doing it correctly or not
<directhex> that';s the problem
<directhex> and causes people to propagate "the wrong way"
<directhex> because the way they found works for them
<ali1234> right, and there are a very large number of wrong ways to do it
<directhex> i've been doing packaging since 2006, and am still making mistakes
<ali1234> i still maintain that packaging is harder than writing the software in the first place
<directhex> packaging apps is easy
<directhex> 3 minute job
<diplo> I packaged SQLite into an RPM a few months ago, that was an experience :) but a few clean vm's later and documents I got it to build and work
<foobarry> packaging is easy on rhel distros
<directhex> packaging libraries is much harder than apps
<directhex> as you need to think much harder about how a library interacts with other packages
<directhex> i also work full time on this stuff now, for both rpm and deb. i would say both have their highlights, but rpm is much more stupid on average
<ali1234> packaging apps that are written in C/C++/something else native and have an autotools build script and don't have any dependencies that aren't already packaged - is just about as easy as it gets
<ali1234> and it still isn't particularly easy
<directhex> easy enough to fit the full instructions in a tweet
<popey> https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
<popey> why was everyone up in arms about paid mods?
<popey> is it because there's the danger it would be like IAP on mobile?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's because the split was ridiculous
<ali1234> they should have launched it with someone willing to take a smaller cut
<popey> oh, the mod maker only gets 25%?
<ali1234> right
<popey> I can see why then.
<popey> that's bonkers.
<ali1234> i mean it depends entirely on the mod
<ali1234> that's the problem
<popey> sure
<ali1234> i mean say someone makes a skin for a weapon model in skyrim
<ali1234> that's worth maybe $1 tops to the end user
<ali1234> maybe not even that
<TwistedLucidity> Silly question, why does Bethesda get a cut of someone else's work? Don't they make money from selling the game and running the severs?
<ali1234> the split doesn't seem to bad in that case
<TwistedLucidity> I guess they could claim they provide a service to the modders as well and need paid for that.
<ali1234> but say someone makes a total conversion
<ali1234> then the split is going to really inflate the price to the point it will cost twice as much as the original game
<ali1234> so if anything it will discourage large mods, and have everyone making the mod equivalent of shovelware instead
<TwistedLucidity> Well, that's easy. The first $0.50 plus 25% (or other figure) goes to Bethesda; the rest to the modder. Not sure what cut Steam wants.
<ali1234> 35%
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cubicle Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Steam wants 35%? For what, exactly?
<TwistedLucidity> Even PayPal doesn't take that much!
<ali1234> for running the store, handling payments, and downloads
<foobarry> a la playstore/apple store
<ali1234> the more important question is why does bethesda deserve 30%?
<ali1234> sorry, 40%
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: For licensing the valuable IP. Or something.
<ali1234> moddrs aren't distributing any IP
<directhex> valve take 30% on all store transactions, as the vendor
<directhex> every game, every bit of dlc
<directhex> it's their standard rate
<TwistedLucidity> Not sure what work Bethesda has to do to support modders.
<TwistedLucidity> If any....
<ali1234> directhex: except for mods, they wanted 35%, for no explainable reason
<ali1234> unless i have been misinformed
<TwistedLucidity> But they'll take whatever the market will stand, if the market will stand a 40% cut....then that's what Bethesda gets. Seems the market couldn't stand that.
<directhex> ali1234: valve took 30%, beth took 45%
<ali1234> okay
<TwistedLucidity> And corrected.
<directhex> as per http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/
<ali1234> in any case, i don't think people had anything against steam charging in the same ballpark that they always do, which is the same as every digital distributor anyway
<ali1234> it was always ethesda's cut that people were unhappy with
<TwistedLucidity> OK, so Bethesda created some kind of toolkit. How much that cost, how often it gets used....I dunno. 40% seems rather high, especially as the mod gets bigger and bigger.
<TwistedLucidity> Flat fee + smaller cut would seem to make more sense. Or maybe the cut scales down as the cost of the mod scales up?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<TwistedLucidity> The only one paying extra for large mods would appear to be Steam in terms of storage, transfer etc etc.
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: the concern is that beth get paid to make a broken game
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: e.g. "skyui" is considered essential by many skyrim players - it makes the inventory system mouse-friendly rather than just using the same inventory as the consoles (which is chunky, for TV viewing). skyUI went paid-only
<directhex> so why should bethesda get paid 45% of the money people paid for skyui to fix bethesda's bad UI?
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: I dunno, which was kinda my point. They should get a cut for making the modder-tooling (whatever that may be) but is 40% the right amount in all cases?
<TwistedLucidity> Either way, if the market (i.e. the modders) will accept Bethesda taking a 40% cut, then a 40% cut Bethesda will take.
<ali1234> but they won't, and they should have known that
<ali1234> should have launched with a developer/publisher willing to take a 5% or less cut
<ali1234> probably an indie
<awilkins> 40% does seem like rent seeking
<awilkins> I mean, they made those tools principally for authoring their own game content, so it's paid for. People who bought Skyrim already licensed all the IP in it. Modders are only adding to that, why should Bethesda take any cut at all?
<awilkins> If they beavered away and made the mod for their own amusement, they'd pay Bethesda dick squat nothing
<awilkins> But because they distribute it for cash, Bethesda should get a cut of the money from people who's money they already have?
<awilkins> Pardon for slightly channel-inappropriate language
<awilkins> Thought I was in the other channel I discuss gaming in.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Do modders pay Betheda for the Skyrim tool-kit?
<foobarry> people get so worked up about games
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, No, it's a free download if you already have the game... so I guess they paid for it in their game license.
<awilkins> I would have strong suspicions that it's Bethesda's internal toolkit for making Skyrim content anyway
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Ah, gotcha. In that case I'd still expect to pay Bethesda a bit (for bug fixes etc etc) just not 40%.....
<awilkins> Ok, they probably added things like Steam Workshop integration
<awilkins> But the mod community is a large part of why Skyrim still sells
<awilkins> The value they get from people making mods worth selling is that people will still want to buy Skyrim
<TwistedLucidity> I see no issue with the software OEM taking a cut for writing the software (it's simpy a different payment model) but 40% does seem to be overvaluing the software, especially as it doesn't scale with the effort the software's user puts in.
<TwistedLucidity> Same goes for Valve. 30% seems awfully high, but maybe they don't have the economies of scale yet (or maybe they do have genuinely high costs)
<awilkins> Naah, I think Valve are printing money
<awilkins> Have you seen the Valve employee manual?
<TwistedLucidity> Well, clearly the market is accepting the rates they set.
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Not working for Valve; no.
<awilkins> Oh, it's been put up on the web
<awilkins> By Valve! https://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf
<awilkins> The section that came to mind is "How to enjoy the corporate vacation." They charter a jet, and take everyone off on holiday.
 * TwistedLucidity wishes he was good enough to work for Valve
<awilkins> It sounds freaking awesome
<awilkins> You decide what you work on.
<awilkins> You decide how you work on it.
<awilkins> You decide who you work with.
<awilkins> Valve is kind of a snapshot into what work would be like with a Universal Basic Income
<directhex> but
<directhex> valve are not afraid to fire you if your performance figures don't look good
<directhex> and they are happy if their recruitment process rejects 99% of people who would be perfect for the company, to avoid risking hiring someone who interviews well but isn't very good in real life
<awilkins> "What if I screw up?
<awilkins> Nobody has ever been fired at Valve for making a mistake.
<awilkins> It wouldnât make sense for us to operate that way. Providing
<awilkins> the freedom to fail is an important trait of the company"
<awilkins> But yes, they are happy to let people go if they are not good enough
<awilkins> Again, in a world with Universal Basic Income, I like to think that i) That would be the norm and ii) no big deal
<TwistedLucidity> I wish to restate my previous statement
 * TwistedLucidity wishes he was self-motivated enough to work for Valve
<popey> i thought the woman (Anita?) who worked on controllers left under a cloud?
<czajkowski> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32481382 confusion ahead if you are hiring a car this summer
<TwistedLucidity> czajkowski: Yeah, good old gubbermint. "What's the worst possible way we could do this?"
<awilkins> czajkowski, I'm happy that they don't want paper counterparts any more
<awilkins> czajkowski, I can never find the damn thing
 * awilkins would be entirely happy if it were all just apps on a smartcard
<popey> I have never taken my paper counterpart
<foobarry> mine is in a safe place
<foobarry> which i have forgotten about
<awilkins> Mine is somewhere in my house
<czajkowski> I dont have one but thought it might be useful to share on here
<czajkowski> :)
<foobarry> somewhere with the photo albums of photos i took as a ten yr old
<foobarry> can't find them anywhere
<awilkins> The DVLA is one of the government IT success stories
<TwistedLucidity> How odd....the DVLA can't seem to find my dirving license....
<awilkins> You can get your car tax paid for online in less than 5 minutes. It's all integrated.
<zmoylan-pi> did you change your middle name to drop table; TwistedLucidity? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> though i do like that real names cause problems... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-do-i-correctly-pass-the-string-null-an-employees-proper-surname-to-a-so
<TwistedLucidity> AH, working now
<popey> I'm going on holiday later in the year with the inlaws, both of them have thrown that bbc link at me
<TwistedLucidity> Wonder how it works when I borrow my dad's car in the EU.
<popey> who also both previously told me never to throw away the paper counterpart
<popey> (I have hired way more cars than both of them put together, and have never used the paper counterpart)
<popey> "Oh, ok mum!"
<TwistedLucidity> And I most certainly will not be destorying the couterpart. I keep all documentation like that, I even have my original pass certificates
<TwistedLucidity> I do not want to have to re-sit the test because the DVLA mess up (there was a spate about 5 years ago of them losing categories off peoples licenses).
<directhex> argh
<directhex> bloody rpm
<Laney> ruddy rpm
<Laney> cute rpm
<Laney> ickle wickle rpm
 * Laney fluffles rpm
<nigelb> Is that like code word for strangulate?
<MooDoo> RPM?  Really Pants Management?
<jpds> deltarpm++
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-32495447
<Myrtti_> I value Guardian app telling me of breaking news, sometimes I just wish I had the same cultural background or atleast knowledge than Britons of my age
<Myrtti_> "Keith Harris has died. ... who's Keith Harris? Oh. Ok then."
<zmoylan-pi> finland had moomins, uk had orville...
<Myrtti> sure, apart from the fact that Moomins are more famous than Keith Harris... (because Japan)
<foobarry> finaland had moomins, we had the flumps
<Myrtti> the whats?
<Myrtti> mmkay
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDXMUR7eY_8
<bashrc> Keith harris I think was big in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Even as a kid I found his performances kind of nauseating
<zmoylan-pi> it didn't have the same depth and social commentary as rod and emu :-D
<bashrc> true
<davmor2> foobarry: not true we had the moomins too
<bashrc> I vaguely remember that the emu stuff was rather anarchic
<penguin42> yeh, I don't think Orvill attacked as many people
<bashrc> yes
<davmor2> bashrc: Keith harris was 80's and 90's and not does panto seasons
<foobarry> JamesTait: happy ed balls day!
<JamesTait> Oo-er missus!
<popey> Ed Balls
<brobostigon> anyone happen to have a jolla going spare i can borrow, by chance?
<zmoylan-pi> can i borrow a cup of nexus... :-)
<popey> they're quite expensive for a loaner.
 * brobostigon has two nexii
<brobostigon> that they are, it seems like an interesting concept, would be nice if they were cheaper.
<popey> there is a discount code floating around that you could use
<popey> I had a play with one for the first time last week.
<popey> the UI is somewhat quirky
 * brobostigon goes on a search for the discount code.
 * popey asks friend who has one
<brobostigon> oe on ebay for Â£122, not bad, next one up, Â£174.
 * brobostigon installs multirom on his nexus4, and finds a nexus 4 image by jolla to try out.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Sailfish does look interesting, I just wonder how stable the Android emulation is
<zmoylan-pi> worse than android running the app? :-)
<brobostigon> android emu, ie alien dalvik is only licensed to work on the sailfish os version for the jolla phone.
<popey> I win at lunch.
<popey> left over roast chicken + curry paste + mayo + bagel = winning bagel
<ne2k> nice
<awilkins> Nom
 * awilkins drank pinkish beige sludge
<zmoylan-pi> waffles, beans and sausages...
<awilkins> I like those tins of beans + sausages cold
<awilkins> Remove lid, apply spoon.
<penguin42> yeuch
<zmoylan-pi> it was on one of those tins... they're nice
<zmoylan-pi> but zapped in microwave on waffles
 * brobostigon rages at fb killing off jabber/xmpp, :(
<zmoylan-pi> are you paying fb for their service?
<shauno> hm.  well pants.  that's the one bit of fb I actually use
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: not a chance.
<brobostigon> use their official app on IOS or android, otherwise your screwed.
<zmoylan-pi> it's got to the point that i will use a service but i have no loyalty whatsoever anymore to them.  i'll recommend if they're good and drop them like a shot when they aren't
<foobarry> like amazon
<foobarry> who are losing me rapidly
<zmoylan-pi> i have never used facebook, amazon
<foobarry> after their "exlusive to prime members" scam
 * penguin42 uses amazon when it's cheapest
<diddledan> shauno: facebook cancelled something?
<brobostigon> diddledan: yes, on the 30th fb will kill off jabber/xmpp for fb messenger
<diddledan> aah yes
<diddledan> grrr
<diddledan> it's been written on the wall for a while but. sucky in the most.
<bashrc> showing their commitment to open standards, no doubt
 * brobostigon agrees.
<zmoylan-pi> it's like they want people to stop using them
 * brobostigon has found a potential bitlbee plugin which may work after shutdown.
<bashrc> if they had xmpp they could maybe have people on facebook chatting with people on google, and then where would it end?
<bashrc> obviously all communications should take place within the facebook fortress, overseen by a central committee
<diddledan> bashrc: except google are also being very open-standards and suggesting they're gonna close their xmpp too
<bashrc> yes
<bashrc> google are doing the same
<penguin42> have either of them got an alternate published protocol for accessing it?
<penguin42> I've got some sympathy if they decide that xmpp is broken for one reason or another as long as they have something else
<zmoylan-pi> they think they have a monopoly
<zmoylan-pi> and a lot of people will sign up and use their new service
<foobarry> i need some LED g9 bulbs
<foobarry> some people say they strobe a bit though
<foobarry> any suggestions?
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-66-SMD-Energy-Saving-85v~265v/dp/B00HJ0B012
<foobarry> 8p each?
<intrbiz> auto pricing alogorithm issues?
<popey> what do g9 fit in?
<davmor2> popey:  look like my halogen spot or it's bigger brother at least
<bashrc> are the BQ ubuntuphones still on sale?
<davmor2> bashrc: http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html I'm going to say yes
<bashrc> cool
<bashrc> I thought there was a flash sale which ran out
<davmor2> bashrc: no flash sales finished
<bashrc> ah
<davmor2> bashrc: they were only on while they judged popularity and awaited the first batch arriving from the factory :)
<bashrc> I see
<ne2k> I have a GT-I9100 running Android 5.1. is it going to be worth trying Ubuntu phone on it, or is the experience just going to be so rubbish that there is no point?
<davmor2> ne2k: no ubuntu doesn't yet support android 5.1 it would need to be on 4.X for ubuntu support
<ne2k> davmor2, I thought it replaced android?
<ne2k> isn't it meant to be a native linux OS, rather than android/java/bytecode/dalvik/slow/cack?
<davmor2> ne2k: it depends on the drivers.
<popey> we use certain kernel modules for access to devices ne2k
<popey> like gps / radio / sensors
<ne2k> davmor2, popey, so it uses the kernel from android, but nothing else?
<popey> basically, yes.
<popey> we don't have the "cack" as you call it :)
 * brobostigon has ubuntu touch installed on his nexus4 with multirom, dualboot, :)
<intrbiz> popey: how much of Ubuntu touch is QML ?
<brobostigon> loads of sw missing though, like pushover/pushbullet, IM client, etc.
<popey> many of the core apps, much of the shell
<popey> never needed an IM client on a phone, or indeed pushbullet
<popey> everyone has different use cases
<brobostigon> exactly. yes.
<intrbiz> so it trades java/dalvik for Javascript/v8
<popey> you dont _have_ to use qml :)
<intrbiz> sure
<popey> some of our stuff is written in C++
<brobostigon> btw, there is a pushbullet client on ubuntu touch, however i filed a bug that its broken, so i am not considering it to be functional.
<popey> camera and galery for example.
<awilkins> I rather liked the unified IM client on the N900
<awilkins> They managed to include Skype and all sorts as well as SMS
<awilkins> I like that Hangouts tries the same thing but it needs to be more inclusive (or they need to re-enable XMPP federation)
<awilkins> I use bitlbee on my desktop because I do like unifying my chats in one window
<intrbiz> Palm Pre had the best messaging I've come across
<awilkins> And the IRC support in Empathy is *terrible*
 * bashrc uses irssi
<popey> "people" don't use IM anymore. they have silos.
<popey> WhatsApp, Telegram, Viber etc.
<popey> (I mean, generic IM apps)
<diddledan> it's a worrying trend
<davmor2> popey: you forgot the book of face
<popey> "etc" covers that
<diddledan> the openness of the internet is being subverted to be siloed
<intrbiz> its been a growing trend of the last 5 - 10 years, internet is dominated by a few silos where people communicate
<awilkins> Yeah
<popey> I think the long term plan is for the Ubuntu messaging app (SMS) to also have IM features
<davmor2> diddledan: is that not what unix is based on?  Do 1 thing do it well, now everyone else is doing it you are complaining ;)
<popey> so there's one app for "everything"
<awilkins> You have Twitter people, Facebook people
<popey> Also, RIP Keith Harris
<awilkins> Although Facebook supports XMPP
<popey> not for long
<awilkins> Oh
<awilkins> How aggravating
<brobostigon> 30th is Dday
<popey> 2 days in fact
<diddledan> davmor2: no not at all - do one thing and do it well so that others can utilise it
<diddledan> davmor2: unix supplies interoperability out of the box - the communications siloes aren't doing that
<awilkins> Probably the reason Google was so keen on Wave
<awilkins> And continue to push Inbox
<shauno> hopefully we'll just end up with something that uses fb's native api in libpurple
<brobostigon> the sailfish os messaging client does it well, combines sms/fb-messenger etc all in the same app.
<awilkins> Yeah, sailfish is done by the chaps who did Maemo - same philosophy as that N900 IM client
<popey> but it's evil proprietary software!
<popey> etc
 * brobostigon has looked at ffos aswell, OSS, :). however lacks again so many areas, and where it does have the apps, they are badly broken and non-functional.
<popey> didn't find them that broken
<popey> FFOS seemed okay to me, on the Flame.
<shauno> hah
<brobostigon> ffos itself fine, the basic apps, email contacts etc, however some of the other apps on it, again pushbullet/pushover, IM etc.
<shauno> I'm looking forward to ubuntu getting some actual apps, rather than just web wrappers
<brobostigon> same issue with ffos.
<popey> some people have created wishlists of apps people want to see
<brobostigon> the whole discussion is mute anyway, because as of the 30th, to use FB messenger, i will have to use android.
<popey> http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/04/24/ubuntu-touch-app-wishlist-april-2015/
<popey> s/mute/moot/
<popey> no you won't. you can use messenger in the webapp
<brobostigon> moot, yes.
<popey> you dont have to have the fb app installed, or the messenger app
<brobostigon> it however wont notify me, when i get new messages from people.
<shauno> all that, and they haven't thought of stuff like .. an email client?
<popey> there is one already
<popey> dekko
<popey> https://uappexplorer.com/app/dekko.dekkoproject
<shauno> yeah, I have it installed.  it's .. well I can't think of a nice way to put it
 * popey waves to DanChapman 
<popey> patches welcome
<davmor2> \o/ Dekko
 * DanChapman waves back
<popey> shauno: got any specific useful feedback?
<shauno> well, one's OS-wide, in that leaving the message view seems to hinge around the smallest target on the screen - for the single most likely action
<shauno> then hiding prev/next behind a submenu compounds to too
<shauno> starring things and deleting things is all very accessible.  actually reading one mail to the next is a chore.  which is what I tend to do with my email
<popey> DanChapman: did we ever talk about left/right swipe to/from next mail?
<DanChapman> shauno: i agree with you on that one. I've brought prev/next up with one of the design guys before, but was suggested to stick it in that drawer where it is now.
<DanChapman> popey: there was talks of it being vertical, so a slightly resisitive pull at the end of a message would bring up the next but oxide hasn't got an api yet for that kind of thing
 * DanChapman would like swipe left/right though. 
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> I think the design guy might be considering aesthetics over usability
<awilkins> Hmm, compose on my keyboard is not as documented
<shauno> I think moving it to the drawer just leaves the same problem in a different place?  swipe would be nice though (or scrolling off the bottom)
<DanChapman> there's a bug for it if you want to add anything to it.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1378282 would help give some weight to the change
<diddledan> swipe left n right doens't impact aesthetics and it provides a simple usability
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1378282 in Dekko "[Dekko] It should be possible to swipe left/right between messages within a folder" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<awilkins> <alt-gr>+'+e is not e acute but e circumflex  Ãª
<popey> we use swipe left/right for prev/next track in music
<popey> so it has use elsewhere.
<awilkins> <alt-gr>+;+e is a acute Ã©
<popey> Ãª
<awilkins> See
<popey> that was alt-gr + ' + e
<popey> Ã© that was with ;
<awilkins> Yeah, docs all say that should be Ã© not Ãª
<ahayzen> popey, we should really animate that swipe as its not very discoverable :)
<popey> +10000
<shauno> one I did notice is that you can swipe the topbar in scopes, but nothing else.  is it a different widget, or just not being used?
<popey> Make it so, number one!
<ahayzen> :)
<ahayzen> should be easier when the new media-hub lands
<popey> haha
<popey> you always say that! :D
<popey> i like that sturmflt wants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorillas_%28video_game%29 ported :)
<popey> internet two-player would be fun
 * brobostigon points out also, sailfishos is the forrunner, as it has support for his pebble.
<diddledan> omg I remember that game!
<diddledan> written in BASIC
<popey> yeah, qbasic
<diddledan> to play it I loaded the .bas in qbasic and used the "run" feature
<popey> well done ã
<popey> we don't have snake on ubuntu touch
<popey> this is a terrible omission
<diddledan> :-o
<awilkins> Results of compose sequences differ from docs at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable
<popey> oh, there is one https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.wellsb.snake-port
<diddledan> looks a bit ugly to nme
<awilkins> Although my settings say "compose key : disabled"
<awilkins> So why it's composing at all is a mystery!
<popey> yeah, I want one that looks like a nokia phone version
 * penguin42 burps a mug cake
<popey> \o/
<popey> I made one of those last week
 * penguin42 was out of orange marmalade though
<shauno> the other one I'm still trying to figure out, is why some apps obey the setting to vibrate on tap, and others don't.  I haven't found any rhyme or reason yet
<popey> shauno: be good to list the broken ones. happy to file the bugs for you
<shauno> that's what I've been trying to figure out .. I'm not sure if it's the apps themselves.  eg, I have an app that was meant to read hackernews.  in that, I get the buzz in the titlebar but not in the webview
<popey> feel the need for http://www.ebuyer.com/583689-binatone-the-brick-mobile-phone-1000249
<popey> month of standby :)
<penguin42> haha
<popey> 128x160 display.. _with_ snake!
<diddledan> popey: that's awesome!
<Knightwise> intereting project tonight. programming dmx interfaces
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: let there be light!
<zmoylan-pi> except for those irritating blue leds hopefully
<Knightwise> its a christmass display
<zmoylan-pi> so just a few lasers pointing away from the tree to discourage cats...
<Knightwise> no , a pretty massive one :)
<zmoylan-pi> bigger lasers only encourage larger cats...
<Knightwise> outdoors, about 40000lights
<davmor2> popey: oh man you just peeked my interest with the _with_ snake!  I mean wow
<foobarry> piqued
<davmor2> foobarry: that too
<shauno> I was just looking at http://snayke.net .. shiny
<zmoylan-pi> my brand new shiny nokia dumbphone does *NOT* have snake :-(
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Man that is a dumb phone
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: is it big enough that it can prop open doors still though?
<zmoylan-pi> it's like they wanted to show it's an ms nokia and not a real nokia...
<shauno> does it have minesweeper?
<diddledan> apparently solitaire is back in win10
<zmoylan-pi> it's a dumb nokia.  i could club a terminator 800 robot sent back from the future to death with it :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it shipped with a bunch of demo games which i deleted
<diddledan> brb, rebooting my router
<shauno> just slightly concerned that if it doesn't have snake *or* minesweeper, you might have accidentally bought a charger instead of a phone
<zmoylan-pi> i'll have to find a few good ones to add.  i'd like rogue...
<zmoylan-pi> and ms have killed the nokia store and opera's store now shows up for software instead.
<shauno> doing dist-upgrade on my mailserver.  what could possibly go wrong :)
<penguin42> shauno: It's normally a good idea to stop and disable the incoming mail server before doing that
<shauno> yeah, I shut off postfix before the backup, so stuff wouldn't be moving beneath me
<shauno> I can't really stop it coming, but I can hope to be back before the sending server quits trying
<shauno> (except debian's mail-lists, which have some really grumpy bounce handling)
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tiko3d/tiko-the-unibody-3d-printer
<popey> that thing has gone a bit crazy
<popey> 2.6M USD
<popey> back it now, get it in a year :S
<penguin42> yeh that's a bit nutty
<zmoylan-pi> are they printing them off? :-)
<foobarry> does all4 work on linux?
<foobarry> doesnt on mine
<ali1234> "In most 3D printers, the most expensive (by far) item is the frame." no it isn't, it's the servos and electronics
<ali1234> the frame is just some threaded bar that you can buy for Â£2/m
 * penguin42 thought enclosed 3d pritners got slapped with some patent fees from someone who'd managed to patent the idea of a box
<zmoylan-pi> could they not just make it a parallelogram or trapezoid? :-P
<popey> foobarry: works here
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> chrome?
<popey> yes
<popey> well, i say that, one worked, one doesnt
<popey> just spinning
<popey> so no.
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> spinny
<diddledan> you spin me round baby right round
<penguin42> hmm
<zmoylan-pi> start crushing their happiness young... https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/tumblr_nmirsgbnuh1qjnhqgo1_500.jpg?quality=94&strip=all
<davmor2> baby like a record baby right round
<foobarry> its the hal thing i thinkn
<popey> foobarry: http://www.channel4.com/4viewers/faq/name/can-i-use-all-4-using-mac-and-linux/id/400287879
<popey> :)
<foobarry> heh lies!
<foobarry> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/peep-show/on-demand/36687-004
<foobarry> spinny spinny
<ahayzen> foobarry, install HAL from ppa:mjblenner/ppa-hal for 4od to work
<foobarry> is that proven to still work in the advent of all4?
<ahayzen> oh
<ahayzen> foobarry, i clicked on that peep show link and its playing the advert
<ali1234> i can't even sign in
<foobarry> indeed, ad is now playing
<foobarry> will find out in few mins if prg works
<foobarry> that was another chestnut
<popey> i dont even get adverts
<popey> never mind though, all4 sucks on all platforms
<popey> not just linux!
<ali1234> no channel 4 i am not giving you my name address and phone number just to watch shows
<ali1234> do they have a smart TV API that i can abuse to watch without signup?
<ali1234> i bet they do
<penguin42> the registration for the extended guarantee on my kettle (free extra eyar) wanted dob and marital status, two phone numbers etc
<foobarry> just wiat till u watch a programme
<foobarry> so many ads
<foobarry> also no chromecast support
<ahayzen> oo it says "Welcome, Andrew" before the program lol
<ali1234> that's creepy
<popey> stop watching...
<foobarry> popey: after installing the hal from that ppa i get it
<popey> you'll get an email later "Hey Andrew, if you want to carry on watching..."
<popey> ok
<ali1234> FFFFFF.....
<ahayzen> lol popey but peep show <3
<diddledan> that wasn't 4 who said that - it was gchq letting you know they're watching
<popey> true enough
<ali1234> i get those emails from ebay and amazon "hey you forgot to buy this thing you looked at" - no i didn't, go away
<shauno> that's not always bad though.  I went to buy some speakers from a store in limerick, but during the checkout it said they'd be delivered the next day.
<foobarry> nathan barley is tisted but compelling
<shauno> so I held off until I had a day free
<shauno> they phoned me up and offered me a decent discount :)
<popey> it's well weapon.
<shauno> it would have been annoying, except I was going to finish the purchase in a few days anyway.  so they knocked almost 100e off the price for no need
<foobarry> strange, this notion of customer service
<foobarry> i had stone slabs delivered in pieces and the company refused to replace them
<foobarry> they were good only for rubble
<ali1234> did anyone see that news story yesterday? apparently there is a shortage of bricks
<zmoylan-pi> the riots for that will be strangely peaceful? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> or will the invites go out byob...
<shauno> is anyone else besides zmoylan-pi in ireland?  trying to figure out who does a good rate on payg data
<zmoylan-pi> only tesco mobile do payg in ireland now.  all the rest are rolling contracts where the credit you buy is used up with in 2 weeks
<zmoylan-pi> as someone who can make â¬5 of credit last 2-3 months this would put my mobile bill by at least 400% :-)
<foobarry> hey giffgaff just upped the data onthe Â£7.50pm to 500MB !!!yay
<foobarry> i was onthe verge of switching provider
<zmoylan-pi> i use opera mini as browser and can last all day browsing the web, rss, twitter, email <50mb daily allowance
<foobarry> boingboing.net/2015/04/28/bedtime-stories-sound-way-more.html
<foobarry> weird
<shauno> hm.  vodafone don't let you pick what size sim you need.  that seems a bit .. out of the loop
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a guillotine that cuts large sims to size?
<shauno> I guess I'll have to wander into town and get them to chop it?  I just ordered off their website
<daftykins> shauno: unless you're handy with a knife yourself :>
<shauno> still seems a bit backwards.  I guess they've been out of the business for the last 5 years or something
<daftykins> most ones i get these days are multi size and you just pop 'em out?
<daftykins> biab
<zmoylan-pi> tis ireland, we use flint sims :-)
<ball> I've been to Ireland!
<shauno> heh, I honestly don't know.  o2/3 make you choose, and I don't really go through them that often
<zmoylan-pi> well good news o2 and 3 are now one and the same.  should we call them o5?
<shauno> they don't seem to care what I call them  lol
<diddledan> surely o6, no?
<diddledan> or o23
<diddledan> and means multiply
<diddledan> or means add
<zmoylan-pi> or o2/3 which would be read as o two thirds... which does sound like what we'll end up with :-P
<zmoylan-pi> the network has been down a few times since the takeover
<diddledan> my honeypot found a new spamm0r: http://www.projecthoneypot.org/ip_185.81.158.66
<intrbiz> has ofcom approved it yet?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shauno> it's already happened here
<bigcalm> Finally sorted out the networking at home. My irssi proxy is back at last
<Myrtti> I just hope O2 and Three joining up means that the reception gets better, not worse from what it is now
<shauno> all I've noticed so far, is that my monthly call begging me to get a new contract, comes from a new number now - so I accidentally answered it
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-29
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMat1> morning
<diplo> Not seen you about these parts for a while SuperMat1
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> yay SuperMat1 must be all the rackers goodness he's been getting over the past few months
<SuperMat1> ???
<SuperMat1> oh yes, I haven't been around much cos I'm very busy :(
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> tzag
<popey> morning
<foobarry> i ran out of RAM and my terminal fonts are corrupted at only one size
<foobarry> ctrl- fixes it, but when i return to the regular size it's still broken!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Wish Day! :-D
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1NeogMh1JI
<JamesTait> davmor2, so... you wish you could buy me a coke?
<davmor2> JamesTait: no I wish the world would just get along :D
<zmoylan-pi> the world does get along, it's just the innocent bystanders that get caught up...
<brobostigon> is there a way of pushing irssi highlights to my xmpp server?
<diplo> http://cybione.org/~irssi-xmpp/
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Doesn't seem to have been updated in a while though
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/29/apple-ipad-fail-grounds-few-dozen-american-airline-flights
<diplo> brobostigon: https://gist.github.com/markhibberd/5315470
<brobostigon> ty diplo
<brobostigon> diplo: is that the same as the irssi-plugin-xmpp package?
<diplo> I believe so, seems quite a few have forked it and made changes
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<brobostigon> anyways, it seems to have loaded and connected to my xmpp server fine.
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> just need to find out now, if it works or not.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, my XMPP address is on my launchpad profile, if you want to test. https://launchpad.net/~jamestait
<brobostigon> ok, ty JamesTait.
<brobostigon> that proved it didnt work, as your highlight didnt show up in my xmpp account.
<shauno> I think you still need to provide the glue?  adding xmpp as a transport to irssi just lets you message jabber users
<brobostigon> glue? ok.
<shauno> so you're still missing the magic sauce that passes messages from one to the other
<shauno> (I had a look, but I got nothing - I do this out-of-band, so irssi is passing messages off to a notification service)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> allo folks
<brobostigon> i have found an xmpp notify script, however when i try and load it, it throws up errors.
<diplo> popey uses something to alert via an android app from memory
<brobostigon> yes, on android i use irssinotifier. however this is for other systems that support xmpp, but not a notification system like irssinotifier.
<foobarry> Amazon UK doubles the minimum spend for free delivery to Â£20ï»¿
<foobarry> game over guys
<directhex> ouya's in trouble.
<popey> oh?
<Myrtti> foobarry: damn.
<foobarry> including the "this item is exclusive to prime customers"
<bashrc_> there is a minimum spend on amazon?
<foobarry> for free delivs
<diddledan> I thought prime gave you free next-day
<foobarry> it does
<foobarry> so it is now becoming a club
<foobarry> that you have to join to buy stuf
<bashrc_> I did get some spam for prime, but I buy things on amazon maybe once or twice per year so it's not worth it
<czajkowski> davmor2: popey on 15.04 does skype work ?
<foobarry> b&q near me is rubbish and don't have stock
<foobarry> i have no choice
 * popey calls the skype lady
<davmor2> czajkowski: no idea don't install skype
<foobarry> welcome to skypecalltestingservice
<czajkowski> popey: this determines my ability to upgrade :/
<bashrc_> use mumble instead
 * diddledan mutters something under his breath
<czajkowski> bashrc_: most of the people I need to talk to daily are via skype
<diddledan> see there's a reason people tell you not to mumble :-p
<czajkowski> I also use hipchat bluejeans and that evil system goto which doesn't work on Ubuntu or anything other than windows or mac
<bashrc_> mumble is pretty easy, and open source
<czajkowski> bashrc_: indeed I agree but also not suitable for me
<popey> mumble is not easier than skype if the other person already has skype
<czajkowski> I can load skype with credit and ring  places outside of the UK which also is a chunk of things I do daily
<awilkins> Mumble is not easier than Skype even if the other person has neither
<czajkowski> as popey points out it's also more hassle if everyone else I need to talk to doens't use mumble but does use skype
<davmor2> bashrc: these are real people she talks to not geeks, it's a job thing
<awilkins> We use Zoom
<awilkins> They just got around to having a Linux client
<awilkins> It segfaults on my machine
<awilkins> Easiest : WebRTC
<bashrc_> a mumble client was quite easy to install on android. I'm not sure about UbuntuPhones though
<awilkins> e.g. http://talky.io
<ali1234> jitsi is easier than skype even if you already have skype
<ali1234> "go to this webpage"
<awilkins> Is jitsi now WebRTC?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> czajkowski: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/skypetest.mp3
<czajkowski> popey: brilliant thank you!!!
<awilkins> Any webconferencing platform that doesn't use WebRTC is cruising on it's inertia
<ali1234> yep
<czajkowski> goto is citrix and is EVIL!
<czajkowski> so backward with it's requirments
<awilkins> Goto have a WebRTC client now
<czajkowski> awilkins: ohh
<diddledan> jitsi now owned by atlassian?
<czajkowski> I just dial in do tell me more
<willcooke> Anyone got any thoughts on a cheap 3g data plan for USB dongles which will be used very rarely?
<ali1234> willcooke: three
<willcooke> thx ali1234
<awilkins> WebEx works cross-platform but to get it to work properly on Linux you need to set up a special 32-bit environment for it
<awilkins> WebEx is Java + native libs AFAICT
<ali1234> willcooke: cpecifically the "1 2 3" payg account
<czajkowski> willcooke: sim only on 3 ?
<awilkins> willcooke, GiffGaff with a non-recurring gigabag?
<ali1234> of course the problem with three is they have awful coverage
<ali1234> so it depends where you're going to use it
<davmor2> willcooke: giffgaff data buckets are kinda crappy, great for phones though.  3 probably gives you the largest data plan on pay as you go
<davmor2> awilkins: ^
<awilkins> davmor2, I only use the phone plans, and tether if I need data
<awilkins> davmor2, As long as you're on a plan with a cap, tethering is totes allowed
<davmor2> awilkins: my point exactly it's great for phones.  but the data only plans kinda suck
<awilkins> If you're willing to switch your phone, it's a great plan for phone + occasional data access
<awilkins> But I can't say about the data only plans because I've never needed to research them
<awilkins> Re : ewbconf
<awilkins> When someone successfully integrates WebRTC + Wave, game over
<awilkins> WebRTC + Wave (with lots of different wavelet apps like mindmapping / document editing)
<awilkins> The next step up from there is VR webconferencing with haptic interfaces editing 3D models in real time
<daubers> Just dropped into say, upgraded my machine to 15.04 and Unity is now pretty good to use. Thanks guys :)
<daubers> Also, what's the MTA of choice these days?
 * penguin42 still uses exim but hmm
<daubers> I've never used exim. I've used the one that I want to say is postgres but isn't and still starts with a p :)
<penguin42> yes, that one....
<daubers> postfix!
<penguin42> right
<daubers> Sorry, I knew it was post<something> and I've been using too much postgres recently
<penguin42> bulbs are complicated; 12W LED bulbs seem to give about 1000 lumens out, and are listed as 75W equivalent, yet wikipedia lists 100W/230v as 1160 lumen, so you'd think it would be closer
<foobarry> where are you buying the bulbs penguin42
 * penguin42 is googling a bit
<penguin42> foobarry: CPC list 12W LED bulbs at ~1000 lumen
<foobarry> amazon and ebay seem sto sell dodgy chinese stuff
<foobarry> b&q are Â£Â£
<foobarry> not much in between
<penguin42> foobarry: I'm not really convinced that there are is any good stuff
<foobarry> its so dreary and cold today i'm having soup :-|
<intrbiz> bring back incandescent i say
<diplo> Electrical Wholesalers!
<penguin42> intrbiz: Well, since I was woken at 7am (3 hours after I went to bed) by someone changing a compact-flourescent that had just expired at under 5 months old (and therefor <2000 hours use) - grrr
<diplo> Just don't buy cheap, won't last
<zmoylan-pi> incandescent never went away
<diplo> Well we're not allowed to sell it zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure i saw some on shop shelf in last year somewhere.  it suprised me
<penguin42> diplo: Oh, well, of course you can buy rough service bulbs, for those erm specialist applications
<penguin42> diplo: And oddly those seem to be available everywhere
<diplo> Hadn't read about that, just reading an article on it :P
<diplo> I used to work for Electrical Wholesalers, now work for a software company supplying software to electrical wholesalers :)
<penguin42> diplo: Ah, fun
<penguin42> diplo: So they can track the 25000 different SMD components that all look the same and can track the certifcates of compliance and things?
<diplo> nah, we're the ERP side, selling over the counter.. sod getting into all that
<diplo> :P
<popey> Daughters lava lamp only works with incandescent lamps... hard to get ones that last
<penguin42> what makes over the counter for electrical wholesalers any different from any other over-the-counter?
<foobarry> mine still works for 20 years
<diplo> popey: What type of bulb is it ? I can take a look here if you like
<diplo> They do LED ones that look identical to incandescent now as well
<diplo> penguin42: Trade accounts and prices, specialist Three phase stuff
<diplo> Not having to deal with cash people so much
 * zmoylan-pi realised last night that if they switch off the fm radio stations here in favour of dab that my 30yo fm radio will be obsolete...
<popey> LED is no good
<popey> they don't get hot enough to make the lava melt
<penguin42> diplo: ah yeh
<penguin42> popey: Do you often have problems with lava?
<diplo> True, never had a lava lamp, wasn't sure if the bulb just worked to light it up and an element did the softening
<zmoylan-pi> well apart from the guy with lava lamp who won a darwin award
<diplo> Well if you have a make and model of the bulb I can see what if you like
<diplo> anyhoo off to get a sandwich
<popey> no, it needs to be hot
<popey> to make the wax lava melt
<popey> looks like mathmos themselves sell them
<popey> http://www.mathmos.com/E14-SES-Screw-fitting.html
<foobarry> can you get IR bulbs
<foobarry> http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/golfball-40w-ses-clear/p1075/
<foobarry> i think only banned for 60w and over?
<foobarry> or did i make that uip
<ali1234> get a 1000W LED floodlight
<ali1234> not only will it be hot enough to melt the wax, it will also blind anyone in the immediate vicinity :)
<diddledan> ali1234: +1
<foobarry> aterry: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/apple-watch-tattoos-could-break-key-smartwatch-functions-10211777.html
<foobarry> woops
<zmoylan-pi> those poor hipsters...
<daftykin1> XD
<daftykin1> how *will* they cope?
<daftykin1> ah neat, my das keyboard is dropping O's again today
<awilkins> Those Cherry switches aren't infinite in lifetime, are they
<zmoylan-pi> version 2 of the apple watch will have a laser to drill for skin...
<awilkins> I have a G80-3000 (Cherry assembled keyboard) and some of the switches need "warming up" some days
<zmoylan-pi> you may experience some pain for the first few days of wearing version 2 :-P
<daftykin1> well i don't think this is that old
<daftykin1> typically after a warm up it plays nicely
<zmoylan-pi> is the keyboard clean?
<daftykin1> yeah i've stripped and cleaned it before to no avail
<daftykin1> now my scroll wheel is starting to go up when i roll down :<
<daftykin1> there's a war on my desk, my input devices hate me
<zmoylan-pi> your mouse... it's coming right at you!! ::blasts it with nerf::
<daftykin1> i shall feed it to the cat
<daftykins> amazing i didn't even see my nick
<diplo> foobarry: Asking me if I can get IR bulbs? If so yeah afaik, used to be able to
<diplo> Also it was 100's then 60's and now all are banned
<Flashtek> Q: with a 14.04 install, is it possible/sane to use dns-nameserver entries in the interfaces file ?
<diplo> popey: 40watt about Â£1.60 + vat from one of our suppliers
<daftykins> Flashtek: dnsmasq might fight you i would expect
<daftykins> best to purge resolvconf then hardcode into /etc/resolv.conf
<Flashtek> dnsmasq not installed
<daftykins> i don't know much about it so can't even tell you if that's the package
<Flashtek> kk
<popey> diplo: proper lamps?
<diplo> yeah, Osram ones I believe
<diplo> They are halogen bulbs it appears
<diplo> Par16/40w ses
<diplo> if you do a search for that on google you find some cheaper prices than the link you sent
<diplo> http://www.oceanlighting.co.uk/light-bulbs-c111/reflector-spots-light-bulbs-c167/bell-bell-05042-40w-clear-r50-par-16-reflector-spot-ses-e14-bulb-p16874/s16875?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgoKqBRDt_IfLr8y1iMUBEiQA8Ua7XX8PFeclc7mXQgfQEbVXePFDQffJJnRIGdSy-Lm4lDYaAmyy8P8HAQ
<diplo> Like that
<diplo> https://www.easy-lightbulbs.com/light-bulbs/halogen-lighting/par-halogen-reflector-bulbs/screw-in-14mm-diameter/p1640fl-ses-ca/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgoKqBRDt_IfLr8y1iMUBEiQA8Ua7XbDTAylXASgp_5PIvDHUc82oHFJsf5DfIPwDGEWvwvoaArCS8P8HAQ
<diplo> Or that
<Flashtek> does anyone else know if the dns setting within /etc/network/interfaces is valid ?
<daftykins> just do what i mentioned and life will be fine
<Flashtek> daftykins: if it were down to me, that's how it'd be done... however I need conclusive proof that it doesn't work as expected
<Flashtek> i'm fairly sure it's a depricated feature
<daftykins> why must you configure these things via the interfaces file?
<daftykins> the word is deprecated - depreciate means to drop in value :>
<Flashtek> daftykins: it's part of a salstack controlled environment
<daftykins> which way around is deprecated?
<daftykins> that means nothing to me
<Flashtek> dropped feature
<daftykins> no i'm asking which approach you consider to be deprecated?
<Flashtek> nameservers in interfaces file
<daftykins> not sure on that, i just don't do it that way
<daftykins> modern versions are a bit too automagic, so i purge the package resolvconf and set manual config
<daftykins> you can probably do it via interfaces as well as hardcoding /etc/resolv.conf direct - just bear in mind that one reboot after purging /etc/resolv.conf will likely still overwrite that file, only subsequent reboots will it persist
<Flashtek> we have mixed installs where some of the systems are DHCP
<Flashtek> and a handful are statis
<Flashtek> *static
<daftykins> for servers!?
<Flashtek> depends on how you define 'server'
<daftykins> computer running a service accessed from elsewhere
<Flashtek> yes then
<Flashtek> sshd
<daftykins> seems unreliable
<daftykins> Flashtek: anywho this might help, it explains some of what changed since 12.04 time - https://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/24/dns-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<Flashtek> thanks daftykins
<daftykins> np :)
<Flashtek> seems that the dns-nameservers entry in interfaces is not documented anywhere handy... aside from stating "needs resolvconf"
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> assuming this host is never going to move environment, i'd prefer hardcoded myself
<penguin42> daftykins: If you're setting up static then just take networkmanager out and put the dns server in /etc/resolv.conf ?
<daftykins> NM wouldn't be there if this were a server? (this is the approach i'm coming from)
<penguin42> daftykins: Right
<daftykins> also resolvconf handles resolv.conf as above due to automagic evils
<penguin42> right, but you can knock it all back to be simple
<daftykins> i guess i never asked if it were desktop or server
<diddledan> techy, but some might moan at me for mentioning: ms build is about to start in 15 minutes (http://channel9.msdn.com/) be interesting to see what they say about 'dows10
<diddledan> in other news, I'm 32 and my beard is already turning grey. I'm not only a neckbeard, but a greybeard too!
<diddledan> not as bad as my dad tho - his is completely white now
<penguin42> diddledan: Ah, distinguished
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> I'm sporting a pretty decent nerdy-tail with my hair these days, too
 * bashrc_ is amused to find a command called "lunch"
<diddledan> bashrc: you're doing android or related dev :-p
<diddledan> there's also brunch
<bashrc_> but is there a teatime?
<diddledan> or is it breakfast?
<bashrc_> dinner?
<diddledan> alas, no
<diddledan> android and ubuphone's build process is a bit black-art to me
<diddledan> but then build processes in general confuse me
<diddledan> autotools is a mystery
<diddledan> cmake even more so
<foobarry> mmm camke
<foobarry> cake
<diddledan> foobarry: get yourself invited onto the podcast - they always seem to have cake
<diddledan> wow, when did they go up? I've missed three episodes of it
<foobarry> i've misssed the past 3 years
<popey> diddledan: build process for phone itself or apps on the phone?
<foobarry> somehow got out of the habit
<diddledan> popey: is the naming scheme beers?
<popey> no
<diddledan> popey: the build process for the actual phone - the androidy bits specifically
<popey> yeah, no idea how that works
<diddledan> damn
<diddledan> I will figure out this naming scheme!
<popey> it's a fun one :)
<diddledan> has anyone guessed yet?
<popey> not that anyone has told me
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> I'm still in the running then :-p
<diddledan> there is a prize, right? :-D
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> we all know we want "more quizzes"
<bashrc_> cmake is a riddle inside of an enigma
<popey> heh
<diddledan> bashrc_: you need a bombe to crack the outer enigma
<popey> we use cmake for many of the apps on the phone
<bashrc_> :)
<diddledan> yeah cmake started as a qt or kde thing so it makes sense to use it extensively for apps considering they're mostly qt-based
<ali1234> cmake is nice
<ali1234> diddledan: aren't you thinking of qmake?
<diddledan> oh maybe I am
<diddledan> damn you memory-cells!
<ali1234> i don't think they are related, i could be wrong though
<ujjain> greetings
<ujjain> http://getworkdonemusic.com/# can somebody check if the play button on this site works?
<ujjain> I've been repetititevely been pressing it for 2 minutes
<ujjain> maybe it's a metaphor: "don't listen to music, get work done"
<daftykins> :D pretty good idea. sorry don't trust such sites.
<popey> doesn't work here in chrome on ubuntu
<ujjain> it was in my firefox bookmarks
<ujjain> from 3 years ago
<ujjain> I guess soundcloud integration broke
<ujjain> cleaning up bookmarks, I think I'm one of the few these days that still uses bookmarks
<daftykins> :D anything i bookmark i never look at again
<daftykins> i browse by manually entering URLs, but age is making the ol' memory suffer
<shauno> I bookmark things to force them to show up in the guesses when the omnibox tries to read my mind
<popey> same here
<daftykins> :D
<Flashtek> ujjain: click fast, or faster
<awilkins> ujjain, There's a codec thing you need for it to work
<ujjain> hmm ok
<ujjain> it does work now :p
<ujjain> I like this song
<ujjain> boom boom boom boom
<ujjain> boom boom
<popey> http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/29/microsoft-shocks-the-world-with-visual-studio-code-a-free-code-editor-for-os-x-linux-and-windows/
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft is not a friend of open source
<popey> historically...
<zmoylan-pi> the patent trolling on android now remains
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yes, you check the licenses on their c# stuff and find it doesn't grant patents except for use in c# systems, so if you pick up their code that's free in it and use it elsewhere you're in a world of pain
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Free to use from copyright point of view, but not patent
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen their behaviour since the 80s.  i'll never trust them
<penguin42> nod
<shauno> still interesting to see a new CEO make some new moves though
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to put up a list of companies screwed over by ms. but it's such a huge list...
<bashrc_> penguin42: I think MS still has a "patent promise" which is legally worthless
<awilkins> MS totally copying the "Ubuntu phone is your PC" thing then
<zmoylan-pi> with things like the pi about the day when you can build your own mobile device to your own spec and capabilities is getting ever closer
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's difficult - a lot of getting the device small, thin, light etc is squashing what you want into the case, and small changes are hard - the modular things from Google kind of look interesting, but still look a bit thick
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the psion ii. and how the ones we had at work lasted long into the wince/pocket pc era as they were just so useful.
 * penguin42 had the 3a - well, the Acorn version of it
<daftykins> 3c here :O still lurking somewhere
<daftykins> i think it was relegated to crossword duty for the old girl
<zmoylan-pi> and also how every one i knew who used a psion ii had a story of driving over it with a land rover for some reason, usually accidental...
 * penguin42 wonders if material science could build one of those with a decent hinge now
<daftykins> haha they really did creak didn't they?
<penguin42> mine has a hinge broken after a few years of use
<zmoylan-pi> they creaked, they squeaked but land rovers never killed one of them...
<penguin42> you ran over a psion in a land rover?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: are you secretly part of a land rovers anonymous club?
<zmoylan-pi> it just seems that every time i met someone with a psion ii they had driven over accidently with their land rover.  and it always seemed to be a land rover.  no minis... about 4-5 seperate stories from different people.
<zmoylan-pi> usually they had put the psion ii on the roof of car to open door and then forgot it which was 2-3 of the stories
<zmoylan-pi> and then when realising and driving back they dinged it the second time
 * DJones hands daftykins Some diet pills
<daftykins> ;)
<davmor2> popey: with have the winner for the W release Worrisome Worms with the catchline "Incoming"
<popey> lies
<davmor2> popey: you can't tell me you don't want this as the next backdrop http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.13839012.8439/fc,550x550,white.u1.jpg
<davmor2> popey: obvious with the origami backdrop ;)
<daftykins> hey diddledan did you hear the news?
<daftykins> the Microsoft Edge browser, now with mspaint integration - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH1D31YHsgY
<daftykins> perhaps that's what Spartan is
<diddledan> yeah I'm watching the keynote now
<diddledan> project spartan is now known as "Microsoft Edge"
<daftykins> have you a linky?
<diddledan> it was earlier, I'm watching the video I cached from channel9.msdn.com
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> me too now \o/ ty
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-30
<diplo> Morning all
<Knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<Knightwise> doin an upgrade to 15.04 on the Surface pro
<Knightwise> have been having some terrible wifi performance lately :(
<Knightwise> been trying everything , but by the looks of it this is becoming my last option
<foobarry> wow facebook suddenly decided to email me twice today about some random persons birthday
<foobarry> i have other emails turned off
<foobarry> and log into to fb most days. i don't think the email is necessary!
<zmoylan-pi> it's a social experiment to see at what point people snap...
<foobarry> liekwise for amazon
<foobarry> trying to dial down the amount of notifications i receive, especially useless ones
<foobarry> anyone aware of a twitter aggregator code i can use to retweet unique tweets ? some accoutns i follow have lots of dupes and i want to see only unique tweets
<diplo> Do dead projects not get removed from the repos?
<diplo> Turpial hasn't had a update since 2011 yet is installable on 14.04
<diplo> Bugs haven't been answered etc
<diplo> !info turpial
<lubotu3> turpial (source: turpial): Light, fast, and fully functional Twitter client written in Python. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0+dfsg-1 (vivid), package size 340 kB, installed size 1200 kB
<diplo> Is that a command :D I don't know them :)
<diplo> yay
<foobarry> looks like teython might do it, not sure about unique
<foobarry> twython*
<popey> diplo: yes, if someone files a bug to have it removed
<diplo> I'll work that out, do I do it just against the package ?
<diplo> Github repo also not been updated in 4 years, so not just launchpad
<foobarry> maybe it's stable :P
<foobarry> but probably dead
<diplo> I'd go with the latter
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> i think i had that installed at one point but it stopped working when twitter started restricting number of tokens to client apps
<foobarry> remember gwibber? lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Poem in Your Pocket Day! :-D
<nigelb> JamesTait: I'm disappointed to wear a shirt with no pockets today.
<zmoylan-pi> apart from a few limericks/haikus i have never enjoyed poetry
<JamesTait> nigelb, zmoylan-pi: maybe Honesty Day is more to your taste?
 * zmoylan-pi looks shifty when nodding agreement...
<JamesTait> Or International Jazz Day? Or Oatmeal Cookie Day?
<nigelb> The Thursday Before Long Weekend Day.
<popey> diplo: yeah, file a bug against it, I have done this for a few apps. let me find one so you know who to ping
<awilkins> Anyone know anything about getting thunderbolt ports to work as a display on Ubuntu?
<zmoylan-pi> extra long in dublin as it looks like a bus strike on friday which will make it impossible for some to get to work
<diplo> thanks popey :)
<awilkins> Ok, looks like it's not going to work, it's just stack dumping in the kernel logs
<popey> diplo: you know this will only remove it from 15.10 onwards, we generally don't remove packages retrospectively
<popey> (we have once or twice though)
<popey> like owncloud
<diplo> Well I guess it's worth it though
<diplo> As it has already been packed for vivid
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10950679/
<JamesTait> Very good, davmor2!
<davmor2> JamesTait: My mom read me that when I was young cause I loved trains, I still love trains and I always remember that peom :D
<MooDoo> hody davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice write up on hosting your own site
<MooDoo> davmor2: ta, wasn't really for the tech, but just a generalisation, works for me :D
<MooDoo> glusterfs is ace does exactly what i wanted.
<popey> so which distro are you on this week? :)
<MooDoo> ubuntu
<MooDoo> sticking with LTS releases though on the servers, it'll do.
<popey> found out my desktop hasn't been backed up for 2 months :S
<popey> so now it's doing a very chunky backup
<diddledan> chunky! :-p
<foobarry>  last backed oup on world backup day?
<popey> 26 feb as far as I can see from the rsnapshot log
<zmoylan-pi> ouch
<foobarry> :-|
<popey> not a massive problem as I rarely use the desktop
<foobarry> world backup day = 31/03
<popey> so probably only thing it will backup is updated steam games :)
<foobarry> yeah, i threw my desktop away/loft
<popey> oh, and my photos
<popey> mine's been booted to windows mostly recently for GTA5
<popey> and a bit of game dev
<zmoylan-pi> so world system crash day is 30-03?
<foobarry> by definition yes
<MooDoo> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Has anybody tried out MS's Visual Studio Code on Linux yet?
<bigcalm> (in here)
<bashrc_> no. And I don't intend to
<zmoylan-pi> ditto
<bashrc_> what license is it under?
<diddledan> bigcalm: it only came out last night. yeesh :-p
<bigcalm> Was a simple enough question :)
<ali1234> i heard it's just http://atom.io with some plugins
<ali1234> i heard this on reddit so it might be false, i dunno
<Myrtti> hubby did
<Myrtti> apparently the font was too small -___- ^___^
<Myrtti> that's what you get from buying a 4k laptop
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't there a complaint when last version came out that all menus were in uppercase so it was like it was shouting at you? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17413001/disable-all-caps-menu-items-in-visual-studio-2013
<diddledan> it uses microsoft's monaco editor which is also embedded in the azure control panel
<diddledan> so I'm not sure it quite qualifies as "just atom.io with plugins"
<diddledan> I think that's akin to saying microsoft.com is just google chrome with html
<diddledan> (because I'm viewing it in chrome)
<zmoylan-pi> nah, microsoft.com is ie4 with notepad :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i shouldn't have said that this close to lunch, should i? sorry :-)
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, i tried it, in terms of downloaded, ran it, closed it :)
<popey> Myrtti: CTRL+ expands the font size
<Myrtti> popey: I think he's having a problem with everything being too small, still
<popey> yeah, it's not good on those laptops
<popey> still not sure what I'm going to upgrade to when this x220 dies
<popey> tempted to just keep it and run it into the ground
<popey> just progressively put larger SSDs in it as needed
<popey> /dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root  205G  159G   35G  83% /
<popey> /dev/mapper/data_crypt  235G  189G   34G  85% /home
<popey> seem to be doing okay for the moment
<directhex> don't get a macbook pro
<zmoylan-pi> get a computer on a stick when the processor ram is too slow and remote desktop from the x220 into it :-)
<directhex> they're pretty poopy for linux
<popey> i had a macbook pro before this x220, the mbp is now wifeys facebook machine
<bashrc_> are thinkpads no longer made?
<popey> they are
<popey> I guess I'd need a whole new dock
<popey> only real "upgrade" I can do to this x220 is a bigger / faster SSD
<popey> this one does 5GB/s - dunno if it will go faster
<bigcalm> popey: I can't extract the downloaded zip. Failing at the 2nd hurdle
<popey> wat
<popey> 50d4547e3617ace370f040edace6d7cd  VSCode-linux-x64.zip
<popey> dunno if they updated it since yesterday
<bigcalm> Archive manager reports: An error occurred while extracting files.
<popey> i think I just did "unzip foo.zip"
<bigcalm> 50d4547e3617ace370f040edace6d7cd  VSCode-linux-x64.zip
<popey> try unzip
<bigcalm> Yeah, that worked
<popey> yeah, file roller fails here too
<popey> wonder why
<bigcalm> Yep, it worked. Back to life now
<bigcalm> Ooo, 1st night this week that I'm not doing any thing
<bigcalm> Any Hayley is out at work until 10.30pm
<bigcalm> GTA V with the soundbar :D
<bigcalm> s/Any/And
<bigcalm> s/any thing/anything
<ali1234> you could say... you are not doing... alot of any thing
<bigcalm> I'll possibly be doing a lot of swearing at the computer
<bigcalm> Oh, I do that in my day job already
<foobarry> google news: Interested in Sheldon Cooper?  Yes/no
<foobarry> wut
<foobarry> odd. afaik sheldon is not a real person or a news item
<foobarry> hmm i think it is harvesting my searches for these suggestions. i once googled tina turner to find out if she is still alive, and she is in my suggested news items
<popey> bigcalm: I had a stress relieving evening last night shooting a lot of people in GTA5
<bigcalm> :D
<zmoylan-pi> for that i shoot people during ad&d games with nerf...
<Laney> tip: save the assassination missions for the endgame
<bigcalm> It's nice that if you fail missions too many times you are offered the chance to skip it (not that I have). What's amusing is that the mouse cursor then changes to a hand giving the middle finger on that screen
<bigcalm> It took me a while to complete the Rampage mission with Trevor
<bigcalm> and the rednecks
<popey> the rednecks wasn't too bad, took me 3 goes, found a place to back away and have them mostly in my eyeline
<popey> bigcalm: http://i.imgur.com/2tUzvNR.jpg
<bigcalm> Nice!
<popey> i like getting diverted from one mission to others as they come up.
<diplo> I think I'm going to have to play it again now
<diplo> :/
<directhex> i haven't really played much GTA5
<directhex> just enough to take a couple of screenshots on new PC
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2uZBEi471o
<popey> fun
<popey> guy changed his name to Michael Green and is standing against Grant Shapps
<directhex> http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/31866079871703277/7069B8C4DE0E9CDD2FEF362E72868FF48BE56442/2048x1152.resizedimage
<ali1234> what causes zombie processes that don't die even when reparented to init?
<penguin42> ali1234: that depends
<penguin42> ali1234: how do they appear in ps ?
<ali1234> [Defunct]
<intrbiz> do you know what forked them?
<ali1234> have to wait until it happens again to give you any more details
<ali1234> what forked them? bash
<penguin42> I think 'defunct' is normally where the parent process didn't wait() for them?
<ali1234> going to try to attach a debugger
<penguin42> if they are marked defunct I'd bet you can't
<ali1234> first of all, i wrote the program and it should never terminate
<penguin42> your complaining that a program that shouldn't terminate hasn't terminated?
<ali1234> no, i'm complaining that it stops working for no reason and then can't be killed
<penguin42> ah
<intrbiz> a zombie is already dead however, so it can't be killed, surely
<foobarry> or undead
<ali1234> it uses the raspberry pi camera so for all i know it is a bug in the firmware
<ali1234> it also uses a lot of glib timers and could be deadlocking somewhere in that
<ali1234> but i don't know if that would cause a zombie
<ali1234> what it can't do is exit the glib mainloop
<ali1234> oh it also uses i2c-dev
<penguin42> ali1234: if you can't attach gdb, the other thing you can do is look at /proc/pidnumber/stack    that is a kernel backtrace
<ali1234> i removed all the timeouts and i2c code and with just the camera stuff it doesn't seem to crash or whatever it is doing
<ali1234> okay i'll check that, thanks
<foobarry> i have a scatter plot in gnuplot, anyone know how i can add a line of y=x to the same chart?
<bashrc_> I think it can be done by adding another line to the plotfile
<dutchie> "plot x" works just on its own
<foobarry> doesn't get added to chart though
<dutchie> so something like "plot x, datafile"
<dutchie> however you call it, i forget the details
<bashrc_> where datafile could just contain a couple of points
<bashrc_> plotted with a line style
<foobarry> AAH
<foobarry> thanks, need to be on the same line
<dutchie> np
<foobarry> seems to kill imgur :P
<foobarry> perhaps because its not a cat
<foobarry> the gnuplot manual is horrific
<bashrc_> I have used gnuplot quite a lot on various projects
<foobarry> they tell you about linetypes and point types but don't tell you what the different types are
<diddledan> daftykins: if you're around in 30 minutes, another "keynote" is happening at MS Build
<foobarry> where does the phrase keynote come from?
<diddledan> no idea
<ali1234> possibly from "keystone"?
<foobarry> the note or tone on which a key or system of tones is founded; the tonic.
<shauno> The term key note comes from the practice of a cappella, often barbershop singers, playing a note before singing. The note played determines the key in which the song will be performed.[citation needed]
<foobarry> the main idea or central principle of a speech, program, thought, action, etc.
<foobarry> google confirms it
<foobarry> set the tone for the conference
<directhex> i have a conf call, i'll miss the keynote
<diddledan> aww :-(
<diddledan> they'll record it tho
<diddledan> if you're lucky you can jump onto the livestream and scroll it back to the time of the keynote
<penguin42> directhex: You mean you can only do one conf call at once?
<directhex> yes!
<penguin42> directhex: Week!
<penguin42> a
<diddledan> I can't multitask either - I'm good at context-switching however
<foobarry> you can't eat and watch tv?
<davmor2> diddledan: no you're not
<diddledan> I'm not?
<diddledan> why not?!
<davmor2> diddledan: cause I said so :D
<diddledan> well that's just sucky for me
<davmor2> foobarry: I go one further I breath, eat and watch tv, get me and multitasking skills :D
<davmor2> we don't need to multitask anyway we have computers for that :D
<foobarry> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29177801/is-it-possible-to-create-an-xy-aka-scatter-plot-using-kibana-4
<foobarry> found someone else who has my problem
<foobarry> no answer :(
<daftykins> diddledan: did anything fun happen?
<diddledan> minecraft has a new mod-creation addon for visual studio
<diddledan> that's about it
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i downloaded the 950MB MP4 of the windows 10 news one, they made it like they were going to answer some questions then added nothing
<diddledan> android apps and ios apps can be recompiled for windows with few if any changes
<daftykins> "yeah lots of people wanna know what 'free upgrade' means... so if you sign up you'll get the answer in the coming months!"
<DJones> daftykins: Along with a spam email every other day
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> diddledan: a proper mod api?
<ali1234> does it still use the bizarre "decompiler and spreadsheet of obfuscated method names -> human readable ones" system?
<diddledan> ali1234: they didn't say so, more that they're taking the already used api and providing type hinting and intellisense in visual studio
<shauno> isn't "already used api" an overactive imagination?
<ali1234> no, there are a couple of API systems already
<ali1234> but they are third-party and have to figure out the decompiled, obfuscated code themselves
<ali1234> despite one of them maybe technically being owned by mojang now
<shauno> I never figured out if mojang actually own bukkit, or just acqui-hired the contents
<shauno> I mean, I thought they actually bought them, but it's been a few years, and they've never actually acted like it
<DJones> ali1234: owned by mojang, would  that suggest owned by Microsoft as well
<DJones> Maybe not directly, but "controlled"
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> shauno: they seem to think they own it. the GPL might say otherwise, but the whole project was never really GPL compliant in the first place. the whole thing is a giant mess and nobody really knows what is going on
<ali1234> and it's not like they weren't warned about it either
<diddledan_> I wonder if they'll ask my question at MS Build (channel9.msdn.com)
<diddledan_> I requested they ask about display output on the pi
<daftykins> diddledan: in what way?
<diddledan_> whether win10 IoT can drive it
<diddledan_> the kinda answered it via someone else's question tho explaining the the ui is whatever your app displays
<shauno> aww, lucid is dead :(
<diddledan_> shauno: good riddance :-p
<shauno> meanie
<diddledan_> bit fat meanie!
<shauno> I wasn't going to make it that personal :p
<diddledan_> lol
<penguin42> sniff, Lucid was good to us
<diddledan_> it's crazy that it;s 5 already
<shauno> it also means a few months of having to point people to old-releases to dig their way out
<shauno> (and no, not complaining, just commenting.  I don't mind it being dead - the predictable release cycle has been their strongest point for me for a long time)
<daftykins> i find it weird i just got a new kernel on lucid just now
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> someone forgot to tell the security guys?
<daftykins> seems like it
<daftykins> since new year when people come in with lucid problems i tell 'em, well - you can fix it and have 3 or 4 more months - or you can just put the effort into a reinstall
<daftykins> i've already rejigged my web server VM, so it's just this little on that runs irssi left now
<daftykins> hardly mission critical :D
<diddledan_> well done :-)
<daftykins> *one
<ali1234> diddledan it can certainly drive the display
<shauno> I keep getting an odd itch to redo my mailserver in docker, for no good reason other than curiousity
<ali1234> diddledan you get this when you boot it http://ms-iot.github.io/content/images/DefaultAppRpi2.png
<ali1234> "DefaultApp"
<ali1234> so presumably you can replace it
<ali1234> what it doesn't have is anything resembling a desktop
<shauno> odds that someone will create one?  lol
<diddledan_> they're onto talking about .net on mac and linux
<shauno> I might actually wet myself laughing if someone ports Calmira
<diddledan_> I don;t know tht one
<ali1234> progman.exe replacement?
<shauno> it was a replacement shell for windows, win95-style on win16
<diddledan_> aah
<ali1234> sorry, PROGMAN.EXE
<diddledan_> what about litestep?
<shauno> and it took a loooong time to die.  last I looked they were trying to make win3.1 look like vista
<daftykins> lulstep
<shauno> calmira is basically evidence that germans do have a sense of humour
<daftykins> hmm my brother just said he turned on an older Dell LCD and it went pop! with added burn smell
<daftykins> wonder if that can be remedied
<zmoylan-pi> only with a skip if the magic smoke was released
<daftykins> =]
<ali1234> sounds like a dead capacitor
<daftykins> power supply portion though perhaps
<ali1234> easy enough to replace, but you don't know why it died
<zmoylan-pi> home soldering and fixing of monitors might qualify you for darwin award
<ali1234> only CRTs
<ali1234> LCDs are nowhere near as dangerous
<shauno> yeah, LCDs aren't scary.  HT voltages are specific to tubes
<ali1234> they might still have some HV for the backlight but nothing like a CRT
<zmoylan-pi> less dangerous yes but i'm more worried about home repairs starting a fire than electrocuting the repairer
<shauno> no more so than anything else you point a soldering iron at, really
<ali1234> worst that will happen is you replace the dead capacitor and the new one pops within a few days
<shauno> (or possibly even less so, given the number of chinese wallwarts I've exploded)
<daftykins> i took apart an acer LCD once that had a really odd quirk, after a while of being on the image would bounce up and down as if it were a window blind someone was repeatedly raising and lowering
<diddledan> vga sync
<diddledan> it lost the lock to the syncpulse
<ali1234> wouldn't that just roll?
<daftykins> it was VGA only and i couldn't find a cheap replacement for the board so i gave up
<ali1234> i was reading about HDMI the other day... it's literally just digital VGA
<ali1234> has sync packets and everything
<daftykins> D:
<ali1234> nothing is buffered
<diddledan> hence why you can get analogue vga from the same circuitry I guess
<diddledan> just need a D2A
<ali1234> not quite, but it does mean the converters are easy to make
<ali1234> it's not a raw bitstream... it is packetized into lines, horizontal sync packets, and vertical sync packets
<diddledan> DVI and DisplayPort/Thunderbolt display lines are just HDMI in a different plug AFAICT
<ali1234> and audio packets, which are sent in the blanking interval
<ali1234> displayport is similar but not compatible
<daftykins> TMDS signalling for the most part yeah, different voltage in DP though i think
<diddledan_> signalling protocols are weird
<diddledan_> QAM ftw?
<ali1234> PCIe is not a million miles away either
<diddledan_> seems everyone and his dog wants QAM
<ali1234> QAM is simple
<daftykins> it's out of phaaaaaase, maaaaan!
<diddledan_> better invert the phase
<diddledan_> or modulate the phase
<daftykins> reverse the polarity, Marty!
 * diddledan_ tries to remember a quote from StarTrek that involves phase
<diddledan_> reverse the polarity of the phase inverter?
<ali1234> phasers on stun?
<daftykins> imagine for a moment, if you will... Carlton Banks from Fresh Prince as Geordi La Forge
<diddledan_> oh god
<diddledan_> including the dancing?
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> WHY
<ali1234> i can't see a problem with this
<shauno> speaking of WHY, I appear to be watching Thunderbirds.  a new version.
 * zmoylan-pi watches st:voyager
<daftykins> shauno: live action or the CG thing?
<ali1234> watch thunderbirds 20x6
<daftykins> i watched all of the original not long ago, this might entertain
<ali1234> *2086
<shauno> daftykins: CG, 'thunderbirds are go', looks like it was recorded off itv
<daftykins> don't tell me you obtained this through unscrupulous means, shauno !?
<shauno> oh no no no
<shauno> it just shows up on my xbmc box
<daftykins> o0
<shauno> I fear there may be some script somewhere acting nefariously though
<daftykins> ;[
<daftykins> * ;]
<shauno> anyway, it's not completely terrible, but it's .. close.  and a little to ADD for my taste
<daftykins> flitting from one thing to another repeatedly is it?
<shauno> it may have just been the first episode trying a bit too hard to show us all the toys
<daftykins> ah yes
<shauno> it takes some real effort to require all 5 in one episode, and they managed to do so without making that effort
<daftykins> i hope it has the mandatory repeating scenes of the thunderbird launching each episode
<shauno> lol, yes, 2, over and over
<shauno> I have a feeling the countdown is ripped from the original too
<zmoylan-pi> i always felt tb1 was... irrelevent
<shauno> (but sticking with the ADD theme, they seem to have cut the gaps between the counts out, if that makes sense.  he doesn't sound sped up, but it's not a 5-second count, and it's missing the DUUUN camera angles between each count)
<shauno> 1's just fast.  his job is to get there first so he can make a failed effort & add suspense before 2 shows up and fixes it
<ali1234> does anyone else remember this show? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5nlh_CUWYM
<shauno> not me
<ali1234> the english dub had the same theme music
<ali1234> it's basically thunderbirds rescuing dinosaurs
<shauno> because that makes perfect sense :)
<ali1234> it was pretty awesome
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaepFVfxOcU
<shauno> oh hah, they've kept some of the whackier design trends from thunderbirds.  like having the flight deck on jumbos hanging off the back like a cargoship
<shauno> (apparently being able to see the runway is wildly overrated)
<diddledan> I'm confused, is it puppets and models or cartoon?
<diddledan> (dinosaur patroll, I mean)
<shauno> yes?
<ali1234> yes!
<diddledan> their naming is pretty .. uninventive
<diddledan> "carry donkey"
<diddledan> and "born free"
<diddledan> really?
<ali1234> it gets better/worse
<diddledan> "pilot, land over there"
<diddledan> no pointing or anything
<ali1234> i don't think anyone involved in the translation of this spoke japanese
<diddledan> and had a terrible idea of dialogue
<diddledan> "look, a cliff!"
<shauno> I think mot things like this only survive with rose-tinted glasses.  if you go back to anything 80s-90s without the nostalgia, it's just ..
<diddledan> I think they've recorded several soundbites and just mixed them together to form the actual dialogue
<diddledan> it's either that or their voice actors can't act (even as just a voice)
<ali1234> brilliant... a random thunderbirds style close-up of a wrist watch on a real human arm
<ali1234> as if the mix of cartoon and models wasn't weird enough
<mappps> 5 months till my next trip
<mappps> sheesh
<mappps> going to uk and spain in between but they dont count:)
<mappps> 7/09 -15/09 going to Ukraine
 * penguin42 hands mapps a flak jacket, helmet and emergency supply of vodka for bargaining
<mappps> :D
<shauno> I actually thought about trying kiev this summer
<daftykins> mmm chicken kiev
<shauno> turns out I completely underestimated 'close'.  the train to the slovak border is 14 hours
<shauno> (but only 15euro lol)
<daftykins> O_O
<mappps> should do
<mappps> ya
<mappps> you can get a train from Latvia to Moscova
<mappps> cheap
<mappps> but its like 22hrs
<mappps> you in slovakia shauno?
<mappps> i was just in czech republic
<shauno> not now, but I'm over there often enough
<shauno> probably june now, may's kinda spoken for before it even started
<mappps> been to vz then i take it?
<shauno> vz?
<mappps> cz i mean
<shauno> ah, yeah, but not so much
<mappps> ah
<mappps> been to prague i take it?
<mappps> the view from the astronomical; clock is COOL
<shauno> been trying to make more trips into the country instead of just bratislava, but they don't make it easy
<shauno> english disappears really quickly outside the city, and I'm hopeless at languages.  I'm getting better at reading it, but spoken, I couldn't even tell you what language it is half the time
<daftykins> same :D
<daftykins> noises i cannot comprehend!
<shauno> they have noises I can't even discern when they're trying to make it easy
<shauno> they have sounds that simply don't exist in english.  the same way germans have trouble with 'th' because it's not a sound native to german
<daftykins> must be that whole thing of how you can't hear new phonemes (sp) after a young age
<shauno> pretty much.  so I'm not just stupid, and I'm old and stupid :(
<daftykins> d'aww
<penguin42> yeh, I'm hopeless at languages
<penguin42> when I was last in Germany I was trying to fall asleep watching a German TV program teaching English
<daftykins> i remember a mate trying to learn some phrases from a chap in Thailand, the Thai guys just laughed their asses off at him when he tried saying something, it sounded exactly like what they said, but clearly it was something we could no longer hear
<daftykins> Ich liebe Deutsch. Ich hatte for funf jahr lang Deutsch in die Schule gelernt.
<daftykins> s/for/fur/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-01
<shauno> right, same way I can't tell the difference between Å¥ and 'ch'
<shauno> I keep getting told "not 'ch', 'ch'!"
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> and then they have whole chunks of grammar that we don't.  like the difference between (it is a) good day and (have a) good night is a different spelling of 'good'
<shauno> apparently 'good night' is accusative?
<penguin42> shauno: I think there are also things we have that they don't; the way that we change the tense when we talk about something someone else said for example
<shauno> honestly don't know about that one
<shauno> I know they have 8 different word endings, I haven't figured out what they're all for :)
<daftykins> ugh that sounds horrid
<penguin42> shauno: Neither did I until I heard them explaining it
<penguin42> shauno: For example, if you said "I'm going to eat a pie" then I might say to daftykins, "shauno said he was going to eat a pie";  I've put the 'was' as a past tense
<shauno> that's right about where I start to lose my mind .. I think they'd put 'said' and 'eat' in a different tense, instead of am/was
<shauno> so the concept exists but it doesn't translate well.  that's how a lot of things come out sounding like a bad holywood russian
<penguin42> shauno: Yes, the russians tend don't tend to say 'the' in a lot of places
<penguin42> ...tend not to say....
<shauno> oh here we are.  4 gender-cases, 3 nominative(number) cases, gentive, dative, accusative, locative and instrumental
<daftykins> shaundo didst spake that he may a pie devour
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> -d
<shauno> oh man, don't get me started on how many mutations they have of names.  I'm  not sure there's even rules there
<shauno> so yeah.  I'm at menus and streetsigns :)
<shauno> and even menus get weird.  I've given up trying to keep track of all the mutations of 'potato' and just assume anything containing 'zem' involves potatoes.
 * penguin42 did a bit of this for German trying to translate things I'm allergic to - they have so many ways of saying nut (and mutter is not that type of nut)
<shauno> although oddly, I seem to have committed 'cabbage' and 'ladybird' to memory.  I'm sure that'll come in useful some day
<shauno> so even when I do pick up the odd word, I seem to place the emphasis on 'odd'
<shauno> but I still can't use them in sentences.  I can't say "two butterflies" because I don't know what gender butterflies are
<shauno> google translate seems to struggle with this too.  posteÄ¾ and posteÄ¾ova both translate to 'bed'.  so I'm not sure which one I'm going to, but goodnight
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nn sir
<Knightwise> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<zmoylan-pi> friday
<zmoylan-pi> good morning comrades... ready to fight the capitalist oppressors?
<elfy> nope - only one of those I'll see today will be a dentist - not fighting them when I'm lying down with my gob open and they've got pointy things
<zmoylan-pi> would you prefer the dentist with the blunt instruments? :-)
<elfy> sharp and pointy is fine - I'll just not be fighting them :D
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<shauno> elfy: what do we want?  "effuffllffuuh".  when do we want it?  "owww!"
<elfy> ha ha
<zmoylan-pi> now spit!
<knightwise> There :) just upgraded from my p1 to my p2 :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> happy May day
<knightwise> morning
<bashrc> rpi2?
<knightwise> yep :)-
<bashrc> I expect it's a lot faster
<knightwise> I run my calibre ebook server on it too :) its a LOT more responsive now
<knightwise> happy I did the move
<bashrc> what's the stability like? Do you ever need to reboot it?
<knightwise> just did an apt-get upgrade , and copied over the Sdcard of my p1 to my pi2 and boom
<knightwise> now all I need to do is build a remote backup solution using bittorrent sync
<knightwise> or rsync
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Batman Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> batman was a capitalist... this is internaltional workers day \o/
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<dutchie> lo
<knightwise> 0/
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/bb/5b/81bb5bbc94a8aacae12292664bd85c47.jpg I return you to my bat appreciation day image
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: technically it is victory in europe day and the only ones not celebrating it are the victors, go figure :D
<shauno> isn't that next week?
<popey> \o/ \o/ \o/ friday
<davmor2> yay we are all winners popey long weekend too
<popey> ya!
 * popey is in that london today
<davmor2> shauno: you are right it's the 8th oh and we still don't get it off, like the rest of Europe
<JamesTait> davmor2, we have a book here (somewhere, in a pile, in a box, in the boys' room) called Batty Cat. It didn't look anything like that.
<davmor2> popey: oh go give joc a slap
<davmor2> popey: I am off to the caravan at Lunchtime \o/
<shauno> yeah, was talking to a friend on the continent .. pretty jealous they get the 1st and the 8th off.  Ithink france has 4 public holidays in may?
<davmor2> shauno: indeed
<zmoylan-pi> ireland been a staunch catholic country doesn't like socialist holidays so we don't have the 1st off.  but we do get first monday off instead.  they tried getting rid of thatt but people just took the day off instead causing chaos.  so it came back
<shauno> I'm not sure I'm a fan of this whole thing of moving all the holidays onto mondays - as much as I'd like to see mondays banned
<shauno> a couple of years back, xmas & boxing day fell on sat/sunday.  I worked both days - someone else worked mon/tues 27/28 and got the holiday pay for it instead
<zmoylan-pi> decimal time and dates... bonus points it'll get rid of the american mm-dd-yy
 * zmoylan-pi rabble rouses
<awilkins> YYYY-MM-DD 4tw
<awilkins> I had to deal with systems that stopped working if the server locale was set to "USA" (ie, the default)
<foobarry> just saw miliband tripping off the stage LOL
<awilkins> Because the code did a load of parsing 6-figure dates assuming they were British format
<awilkins> The MS Script host does it too
 * awilkins wonders if it's still a bug
<awilkins> VBSCript :
<shauno> I do like the iso one.  especially for logs, since date-order and alphabetical-order are the same thing, everything seems to just work
<awilkins> CDate("12/01/1990") comes out "1st december 1990" regardless of locale
<awilkins> CDate("13/01/1990") comes out 13th January
<awilkins> Writing ASP Classic pages in VBScript and having to contend with that is SUPER FUN
<awilkins> If you must store dates as text, always, always, ISO format
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Tesla Powerwall :  7kWh battery for the home
<awilkins> Wonder if it would be an economic prospect just with Economy 7 here in the UK
<awilkins> Apparently $3,000 to fitters
<awilkins> UK typical daily consumption is 9kWh
<awilkins> Anyone know what the economy 7 rates are vs standard rates?
<davmor2> awilkins: http://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/economy-7/
<awilkins> Yeah, been there
<awilkins> CAn't find like, numbers
<awilkins> That site just makes you walk through their price comparator and gives you aggregate yearly savings
<awilkins> Ok, one from Feb last year
<awilkins> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2548171/What-Economy-7-does-work.html
<awilkins> So, night rate is 6-7p cheaper than day rate
<awilkins> Let's say 6
<awilkins> If you're able to shift 70% of your energy consumption to using the battery, then you can save Â£138 a year if you have average usage of 3300 units
<awilkins> So : at Â£2,000 wholesale a bit of a pricey prospect.
<zmoylan-pi> but if you're in an area with intermittent power like a remote rural place where you might expect to have 2-3 days without power a year...
<awilkins> Yeah, they do a  10kWh one as well
<awilkins> If you're in that remote location you probably want to supplement with renewable generation, maybe a windmill and some solar
<awilkins> The marketing is that you can get off grid because you can store your excess
<awilkins> Not sure how that works with having a Tesla in your drive as well
<awilkins> Since that will eat charge like mad
<davmor2> awilkins, zmoylan-pi: water wheel is more reliable
<awilkins> Definitely, but locations where you have enough drop are fairly scarce
<knightwise> my inlaws have a watermill , my dad in law is a retired professor who knows a lot about electronincs,
<knightwise> making power with a water wheel is not that simple
<zmoylan-pi> only because water power has fallen out of favour as till recently did wind power.  we're more interested in large scale power production instead of small decentralised localised power production
<awilkins> Are we talking a mid level between millstones, and dams with turbines?
<awilkins> Because turbines beat waterwheels for efficiency
<zmoylan-pi> turbines beat everything for efficiency
<zmoylan-pi> this isn't about efficency, this is about decentralised, small scale power production.
<zmoylan-pi> and more and more people are interested in living off the grid
<awilkins> Sorry, was misplacing the "we" - you meant "we as a civilization" rather than "we as a group of people interested in waterwheels"
<zmoylan-pi> ooops, sorry, there are a lot of we's :-)
<zmoylan-pi> some want huge single centralised, some want smaller scale scattered, some want distributed.  never going to make everyone happy
<bashrc> centralize and you build in weakness
<zmoylan-pi> centralised gives you economy of scale. not to be sneezed at
<awilkins> The problem comes when the robustness of your centralised system is eroded for the sake of profit
<zmoylan-pi> then it becomes a how much input the state has to ensure standards/fair play
<bashrc> it seems to me that a lot of bad things in life can be traced back to too much centralization
<davmor2> knightwise: I've seen a mill in the uk that is self sufficient based on it's water wheel
<bashrc> whether it be web servers or windmills
<zmoylan-pi> yet when you compare how different the mobile phone systems are in europe versus usa when central government enforced rules versus capitalism...
<bashrc> think of the gigantic server farms. In any future war where do you think those will be on the target priority list?
<directhex> awilkins: i have an electric car. ish. what was the question?
<zmoylan-pi> they make take our freedoms, but they'll never get our pi's!! :-)
<ali1234> pretty low because disrupting the enemy's ability to look at cat photos will only give them more time to build weapons
<awilkins> directhex, We were talking about the new Tesla home battery and speculating if Economy 7 makes it an economic prospect
<awilkins> Upshot : average home will save Â£138 per annum by shifting 70% of their electric usage to the battery and charging it overnight
<directhex> so filling it up at 6p a unit, and using it during the day when you'd be billed 11p a unit?
<awilkins> Cost of battery being Â£2,000 wholesale, this seems like poor value
<awilkins> Difference is 6p
<directhex> most home greenery is a long-term investment. solar panel installation doesn't break even for more than a decade either
<directhex> am i saving money when i spend 200 on getting a car charger installed, 150 on a cable, etc?
<awilkins> Solar panels don't wear out as much as a Li-ion battery though
<awilkins> If you have the car you're probably saving money
<awilkins> Because a car's energy use is so much greater than a house's
<directhex> mmm, the charge cycle is pretty predictable though on the home battery
<awilkins> But that's a different question
<awilkins> directhex, I suppose you can decrease the charge wearing a lot on a home battery
<directhex> especially w/ trickle charging
<directhex> did i see someone say it was 10kw?
<directhex> er, 10kWh
<awilkins> There's a 7kWh model and a 10kWh
<awilkins> Â£138 figure is for the 7kWh model
<awilkins> Average leccy usage of 9kWh/day
<awilkins> Hence 70% on battery
<directhex> well, i wonder if they've done something similar to the volt
<awilkins> If you moved a power hungry thing like laundry to the night as well you could probably get that %age up to 100
<directhex> volt battery is 16kWh, but software limited to 10kWh for load balancing
<ruben_> ruben
<directhex> lol
<Laney> ED BALLS
<ali1234> can you run your house off your car battery?
<zmoylan-pi> my brother lives in rural location that usually loses power 2-3 times a year.  he runs a fair few devices off the batteries in his van using inverters
<ali1234> i mean if you have an electric car
<ali1234> "easily"
<zmoylan-pi> i think the new prius have an option for that
<zmoylan-pi> http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Man-Uses-a-Toyota-Prius-to-Power-his-House-During-Weeklong-Blackout.html
<shauno> that sounds like something involving caravans is just waiting to go wrong
<moreati> ali1234: yes, in Japan (for Â£4000 in 2012) http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/nissan/nissan-leaf-can-power-your-home maybe more widespread and probably cheaper now
<popey> awilkins: i thought there was no such thing as economy 7 anymore
 * popey catches up
<bashrc> economy 8?
<foobarry> econ7 is often more Â£Â£
<bashrc> if a car had a fuel cell then maybe it could power a home
<zmoylan-pi> if you could afford a car with a fuel cell you could afford a backup generator/solar/wind installation
<awilkins> I can't justify anything more than an Â£8k econobox for a car
<awilkins> TBH I'm of the opinion that unless your business involves hauling objects or people, anything more is just posturing
<awilkins> I suppose if you drove a LOT, comfort is a factor
<bashrc> There are some encouraging trends. Electricity requirements for consumer electronics (laptops, phones, tablets, TVs) are getting smaller and also things like solar are getting cheaper
<zmoylan-pi> or size of family
<awilkins> zmoylan-pi, My parents, and my family, both functioned with a normal sized saloon
 * zmoylan-pi waits for the day i can run my solar powered tv inside powered by the light of the solar powered tv... :-)
<awilkins> There are already cameras that are powered by the light they are taking the photo of...
<shauno> that's slightly different though - they're not creating the same light, so it's not a closed system
<popey> wifey wants me to get rid of my car and get something else.
<popey> I rather like my old nail
<zmoylan-pi> my parents had 5 kids.  the 7 of us in fiat 850 travelling length of ireland on driving holiday in the 70s is still something we all remember... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_850
<popey> hehe
<shauno> has she already mandated what something else is?  or could you stimmy the convo with some well-placed motorocycle brochures ;)
<popey> nice
<popey> motorcyles are veoted
<popey> was a condition of marriage
<popey> (ish)
<MooDoo> anyone have problems openening up java files from 15.04 just by double clicking on them?
<diplo> hah, I had the same veto popey :)
<awilkins> No mobikes allowed, mum won't let me
<diplo> No need to worry anymore :)
<awilkins> Granddad had a nasty mobike accident early on in life
<awilkins> Had the scars and pins in his leg to prove it
<popey> MooDoo: works here
<awilkins> Probably saved him from being drafted (along with being a good engineer and needed to work on planes and torpedoes and stuff)
<MooDoo> popey: do you have a "open with link to java" when right clicking on a java file?" in my case minecraft.java ?
<popey> minecraft.java
<popey> ?
<popey> surely minecraft.jar?
<awilkins> minecraft.jar ?
<MooDoo> sorry .jar
<popey> i do
<shauno> (we had 5 kids too, but a volvo 240 instead of a sewing machine.  luckily, being the tallest, I was never subjected to the barfbench in the boot)
<popey> i right click,. open with -> open with openjdk
<MooDoo> wierd, ok thanks
<popey> wifey doesn't want to dictate which car we have next, just that mine is a bit of a nail, and needs replacing
<popey> but it's the car the kids grew up with so they know it well :)
<popey> been on holidays in it and stuff
<shauno> yaknow how quantum theory dictates small things and relativity dictates big things?  I'm pretty sure the number of children you can fit in a volvo 240 estate is the physics no-mands-land between the two
 * popey hugs volvos
<davmor2> popey: I can recommend the Skoda Superb lovely and basically a passat :)
<davmor2> popey: big boot and loads of space inside too :)
<zmoylan-pi> a fiat bambino, for family togetherness... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_500
<Myrtti> "Volvo"
<foobarry> volvo means rolling wheel or something doesn't it?
<foobarry> ah "i roll"
<awilkins> Volvo - the motto of the Autobots
<awilkins> Shame none of them turn into Volvos
<awilkins> They should have an Autobot accountant / Health and Safety exec who turns into a Volvo
<zmoylan-pi> none of the autobots want to be called boxy
<awilkins> "Hey, I'm Boxy, but I'm good!"
<zmoylan-pi> it's an older meme... but it checks out...
<zmoylan-pi> so much to chose from... :-) http://thechive.com/2015/05/01/some-people-dont-just-want-their-cars-to-get-them-from-a-to-b-40-photos/
<shauno> Reason: Not allowed to browse Lingerie/Bikini category
<shauno> o_O
<shauno> you trying to get me in trouble?
<zmoylan-pi> only cars and the... remains of cars on that page.
<zmoylan-pi> right, to the post office to pay bills...
<zmoylan-pi> ::insert spinning euro symbol::
<foobarry> so i bought a fitness band
<foobarry> turns out its useless if i can't sign in to teh app
<foobarry> haven't been able to sign in yet ..2nd day trying
<Myrtti> I was thinking of crocheting or knitting a cozy for our smart scale
<Myrtti> the top is made of glass and we seem to accidentally kick the scale so it bumps against the radiator pipes or wash basin pedestal
<foobarry> my mrs is now selling her hand spun merino and alpaca is the local craft shop :D
<Myrtti> nice
<Myrtti> hm.
<Myrtti> that's a good point.
<Myrtti> I have some selfspun ramie leftover from the UV hat that would be excellent for the cozy
<ali1234> foobarry: fitbit and jawbone both have linux software
<ali1234> (third-party)
<foobarry> eaten too much cake this morning
<foobarry> not sure lunch is ready for me yet
<foobarry> ali1234: cheers, i just found a reddit sub that showed me some 3rd party apps for my miband
<foobarry> i call it ed
<foobarry> in forum "you need to reply to post to get download link for app" . so 2592 pages of posts, no idea if any contain useful info. worst idea ever
<foobarry> has nayone watched "going clear"?
<ali1234> foobarry: bad forum rules: "don't make a new thread, post on the thread for <whatever>"
<ali1234> no, this is why forum software has categories
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> morning
 * penguin42 yawns
<popey> bugger, forgot to pay for parking
 * popey pays now and hopes he doesn't get a ticket
<diddledan> :-(
<moreati> sounds like an opportunity, parkup.io - Automatic PAYG parking
<moreati> (I may have been binge watching Silicon Valley)
<penguin42> you would need accurate and trusted position stuff for that
<popey> nah
<popey> car parks aren't that close to eachother generally
<moreati> i'm thinking smartphone + iBeacon(s)
<popey> well, i say that and there are two at Farnborough station I think
<popey> yeah https://www.myringgo.com/parkinglocator/2002 and https://www.myringgo.com/parkinglocator/2013
<moreati> closest I've found so far is www.dashpark.com
<penguin42> It does require GPS to be on though; sometimes my google position on my phone is a few miles out
<davmor2> popey: I'm at the Caravan in the sunshine sipping coffee and testing phones does it get better than this
<popey> \o/
<popey> Sunny in (that) London too
<diddledan> gotta love when it's sunny in "that london"
<foobarry> London SA?
<foobarry> London oklahoma?
<popey> BlueFin in Southwark Street
<daftykins> hmm just had a nice plug and play experience with a logitech C525 webcam on a 12.04 machine up at a clients
<daftykins> just had to drag the microphone sensitivity up in sound settings and it's perfect in skype :O
<penguin42> most webcams just work (there's a USB camera protocol standard)
<daftykins> yeah UVC
<daftykins> i did check all that before buying naturally, it's just we had some entitled asshat in #ubuntu last night who was getting all "I'M TAKING IT BACK RIGHT NOW!" claiming it wasn't working
<daftykins> working on Linux didn't even really matter, it just saves me a reinstall :>
<daftykins> though that box could probably do with running 14.04 by now
<diddledan> daftykins: the same asshat that you installed it for>?
<daftykins> no
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> no doubt a 'murican
<diddledan> just coinkydink?
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> i found it quite funny someone had the same model
<diddledan> especially moaning the day before you're due to install one
<daftykins> absolutely
<daftykins> they then went back to the drawing board with cheese and somehow remedied it without telling us how
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I hate when people just say "oh I fixed it, bye"
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> even the word 'fix' gets thrown around a bit :>
<diddledan> yeah sometimes people use "fix" to mean "gave up and did something else"
<dutchie> obligatory https://xkcd.com/979/ and https://xkcd.com/763/
<daftykins> :S
<intrbiz> yay, my odroid C1 arrived :D
<diplo> intrbiz: Didn't you order that months ago, or was that someone else ?
<diddledan> what's the diff between that and the pi2?
<diplo> I remember talking to someone about running Kodi(XBMC) on it
<diddledan> or should we call it 2pi-r?
<diddledan> or pi-d?
<daftykins> ;)
<diplo> I'm not 100% sure, I was checking it out before the pi2 came out, but overall it had more ram/better cpu etc
<diddledan> they're missing out on mathematically funny in-jokes
<daftykins> 6.28318...
<diddledan> the main difference I See is giganet instead of fastnet
<diplo> http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=9152
<daftykins> perhaps that NIC isn't foolishly attached via USB too :D
<diplo> Lots of info there
 * penguin42 wonders when odroid are going to get around to doing 64bit stuff
<davmor2> popey: 1st world problems, I've had to mostly close the blind so I could still see the screen E:TOOMUCHSUN :D
<diddledan> davmor2:  :-o
<diddledan> davmor2: this is why I prefer nighttime! :-p
<diddledan> plus the sun does nasty things to my complexion
<shauno> I don't actually prefer nighttime.  it just seems to be the natural result of "too lazy to get up" vs "too lazy to go to bed"
<diddledan> I believe the kids these days call it a "sun tan"
<daftykins> do you take any vitamin supplements to counteract the lack of exposure?
<diddledan> nah, there's no fun in that
<daftykins> ;]
<shauno> if that ginger beard isn't just a figment of my imagination, I fear he's actually designed for the lack of exposure
<diddledan> so, even if you hate microsoft, look-out for talks involving one "Scott Hanselman" - he's fun
<penguin42> shauno: That's just an extremely late chronotype
<diddledan> shauno: lolo
<diddledan> shauno: at least my hair isn't ginger, only my beard
<diddledan> although I do love redheaded girls - they purdy
<diddledan> there's something about the freckles
<diddledan> so random topic change - what do folk think about private addresses in public dns?
<shauno> silly but harmless, unless you're paranoid about revealing internal topologies
<diddledan> e.g. we've got a zone in company dns for our vpn hosts with 10.0/24 addresses
<diddledan> that's my thinking, it doesn't really matter IMO
<penguin42> diddledan: It does let people know a bit too much about your internal network
<shauno> you could go google split horizon if you want to make it tidy :)
<diddledan> I've just heard folk moan about such things in the past
<penguin42> diddledan: I think it's more normal to have an internal. subdomain that doesn't resolve externally
<diddledan> we've got vpn.example.com which is public
<shauno> we do it for a lot of things where we have a 10.address internally and a dmz address externally, for the same hostname
<daftykins> huzzah remembered how to change grub default menu choice
<diddledan> daftykins: grub2?
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I mean it wont break; but I don't think I'd have it public
<diddledan> I have no idea about 2
<shauno> split horizon isn't as difficult as it sounds.  you just define two acls, and then attach a different zonefile to each
<daftykins> diddledan: ja
<shauno> the trouble tends to be remembering to update them both ;)
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> luckily our vpn internal addresses rarely change, but we have many hosts so remembering them all by number is a pain to say the least
<shauno> you're not meant to remember them.  make them predictable, make them documented, and point names at them :)
<diddledan> I might investigate hiding the vpn from public dns because obscurity means security
<shauno> see also: how the zark am I meant to remember these ipv6 addresses
<shauno> be careful trying to hide the vpn.  remember that clients connecting to it kinda need a public address :)
<diddledan> I wonder how many ip6 names are gonna end up with things like BABE or CAFE or the like in them
<diddledan> or B00B :-p
<penguin42> people have done that for years :-)
<shauno> or face:b00c  lol
<diddledan> penguin42: I mean the actual ip6 number, not the address
<diddledan> dns address**
<shauno> oh they've been doing it with ipv6 addresses for about as long as they've been able
<intrbiz> diplo: ordered it yesterday, their is a UK distributor now
<diddledan> there**
<penguin42> diddledan: Yeh I know :-)
<intrbiz> its a quad core A5 @ 1.7GHz, 1Gb RAM, about 30% faster than rPi2 and has reall gigabit nic
<daftykins> *GB
<intrbiz> even, yeh
<penguin42> Oh I've not come across anything with an A5 before
<intrbiz> the gig nic is RGMII, no USB, so can actually shift 1Gb/s
<shauno> I have some ram chips that actually are 1Mb, not MB
<penguin42> people like 'quad core' so you get the chips with the lowest spec cores but 4 of them
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> at almost double clock speed of the rPi2, even with the A5 rather than the A7 cores, the Odroid C1 get about 30% over rPi2 on benchmarks
<daftykins> shauno: that notation annoys me :> why not just call it 128KB D:
<intrbiz> it also supports UHS for the SD card, so you can get faster IO for the SD Card
<intrbiz> daftykins: because KB = Kelvin Byte
<daftykins> wat
<shauno> daftykins: no idea.  especially since it is actually addressed in words, so there isn't 1M addresses
<intrbiz> daftykins: Capital K is Kelvin
<intrbiz> so kilo is a lower case
<diddledan> mb confuses me - millibits?
<daftykins> pff
<daftykins> millibars of pressure D:
<intrbiz> kilo is the only multiplier in SI which is not capital
<penguin42> and then I think you get the geneticists using b   for base pairs
<intrbiz> plus, we should actually say: GiB not GB as it's base2
<moreati> intrbiz: only multiplier > 1 that is lowercase
<diddledan> intrbiz: you mean the only non-fractional multiplyer
<daftykins> i'm in a really amusing situation, an old spare machine here has fried motherboard USB, so i can't hit BIOS POST screen key combos to install another OS
<diddledan> multiplier
<intrbiz> multiipler rather than divisor
<penguin42> diddledan: Fractional multiplier ?!
<penguin42> oh
<diddledan> penguin42: e.g. 10^-3
<intrbiz> yes
<intrbiz> m = 10^-3, u = 10^-6
<diddledan> i.e. multiply by 10^-3
<intrbiz> k = 10^3, M = 10^6
<diddledan> intrbiz: they're all multipliers
<diddledan> intrbiz: you don't divide by 10^-3
<intrbiz> 1 * 10^-3 = 1 / 10^3
<penguin42> I did see the zeptolitre used for the 1st time a few days ago - that's a scary small number
<diddledan> penguin42: err...
<shauno> fwiw, deca and hecto are lower-case positive too
<penguin42> diddledan: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn303767b
<diddledan> wat?
<diddledan> dna boxes?
<moreati> TIL...
<penguin42> diddledan: Yep
<diddledan> I've seen it all now
<intrbiz> shauno: ah, indeed
<diddledan> what would we store in such things? dna cars?
<penguin42> diddledan: It's called DNA origami; they've figured out how to make pretty much arbitrary shape chunks of DNA
<diddledan> but. why?
<shauno> grants :)
<penguin42> diddledan: They're hoping to do things like trap a drug inside the box, and then get the box to open when it's in the right type of cell
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> nanites, anyone?
<moreati> diddledan: with any luck it's a route to molecular manufacturing aka nanotech
<shauno> since everyone has their nerd on, something I was pondering earlier
<penguin42> diddledan: http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/bio2.0/dna_origami
<shauno> does gravity actually have a theoretical limit to its range?
<diddledan> shauno: I don't believe it does
<diddledan> I don't know tho
<diddledan> e.g. we're detecting gravity from far flung places IIRC
<moreati> shauno: I think it's speed of light limited, so I'd guess the limit is the observable universe
<penguin42> shauno: It's inverse-cube (?) law though so gets very weak over long distances
<shauno> I mean it obviously has practical limits, mars hasn't pulled anything off my shelf
<diddledan> lol
<moreati> penguin42: inverse square
<shauno> I thought inverse-square, but that may have just been a guess.  but that still has the catch where you're dividing something infintely
<penguin42> moreati: Ah, yeh - it's magnetism that's cube?
<shauno> so I guess the question would be whether it acts like a particle enough that it reaches a single quanta that can't be subdivided
<intrbiz> presumably inverse square is radiating in 2 dimentions, inverse cude in 3 dimentions
<moreati> penguin42: pass, EM is all partial differentials which are above my comprehension
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, I don't know, but isn't the argument that gravity just deforms space so I'm not sure it needs any particles to communicate it
<shauno> (and no, this didn't come out of KSP, KSP has cheaty physics where you're only ever within one sphere of influence)
<shauno> yeah, I don't believe it acts like a particle for most things, which is how it can get away with only ever being an attractive force, rather than offering a negative form of itself
<diddledan> is brian cox on the twits?
<shauno> but if you stop believing in gravitons entirely, startrek goes to all hell, so I kinda have to cling to something there
<diddledan> lol
<moreati> .g brian cox twitter
<moreati> oh, wrong channel for that bot
<diddledan> moreati: which channel were you thinking? (#wordpress' bot responds to that query)
<moreati> diddledan: pookie in #lesswrong
<penguin42> hmm, what's #lesswrong?
<diddledan> it must be non-public - it's not in the list
<penguin42> neither was tic-tac-toe
<moreati> penguin42: stated: rationality and AI safety comunity. http://lesswrong.com/
<penguin42> interesting site; points out the things I always get wrong :-)
<daftykins> diddledan: installing the win10 10074 on this spare core 2 quad i have :O
<daftykins> i liked that i was able to pick "keep nothing"
<daftykins> silly broken USB :<
<diddledan> heh
<daftykins> feels so wrong not booting from media directly and 'doing it properly'
<diddledan> lol @ hack guys: We all went into the woods with pens and pads of paper and ate hallucinogenic berries we found to come up with ideas. Someone suggested two equal signs followed by a greater than sign and we all burst into uncontrollable laughter. The laughter was followed by intense philosophical introspection into the nature of symbols, and how it's weird that we draw two parallel lines for the equal sign, and how it's fun to think about how
<diddledan> they decided which symbols went on the standard keyboard. As the effects of the berries wore off and we started to walk back, we looked at the ==> symbol we had written down and thought about how it all fits together with the abstract architecture of the universe, and how it strikes a chord within us that gives a calming sense of harmony with the world.
<diddledan> ref: http://docs.hhvm.com/manual/en/hack.lambda.operator.php
<daftykins> no berries for you, young man
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> ello MooDoo
<diddledan> dammit, I got it wrong
<diddledan> I meant: m00
<MooDoo> lol
<daftykins> omw Windows 10 build 10074 is so fast even on an ancient core 2 quad
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/ibm-just-cracked-one-of-the-biggest-problems-facing-qua-1701173052
<diddledan> daftykins: spartan still uses a ton of memory tho
<daftykins> *shrug* i have no need for it
<diddledan> msoffice installer is weird
<diddledan> or rather the 365 variant that I use
<diddledan> it goes through a quick process and then pops up a window that says "you can use your programs now" yet also says "office is installing in the background"
<directhex> diddledan: yeah, that thing is weird
<directhex> i have no idea what it's doing, but it's not lying!
<diddledan> I don't get how it can be installing and installed at the same time
<diddledan> are they using quantum mechanics maybe?
<daftykins> afaiui it's using application virtualisation from Azure perhaps to give you the progs remotely whilst it downloads and installs the real ones
<daftykins> personally though i dug through the pages and downloaded the normal ISO
<daftykins> if i'm somewhere installing office it needs to get done, not sit there downloading
<diddledan> the 365 installer is tied to your account so you'd not want that for client installation anyway
<directhex> 360 works well for my wife
<directhex> er, 365
<daftykins> diddledan: nah because it asks for a product key / account at install
<directhex> it's an educational discount, with a 2 machine limit, so i can't use hers
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah that's what I'm saying, the 365 installer doesn't
<daftykins> oh
<diddledan> daftykins: you run the exe and it says "Hello, <yourname>"
<shauno> creepy
<diddledan> i.e. it knows your account and whether you're licensed via the downloaded exe
<daftykins> been a while since i did it so it's not gotten memorised yet
<daftykins> in fact i think it's really just purchases of 2013 via PKC and not 365 that i mean
<diddledan> PKC?
<daftykins> product key code
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> where you get no disc
<directhex> i wonder what win10 will cost.
<diddledan> they still haven't said anything other than free-upgrade
<daftykins> indeed
<diddledan> so the non-upgrade costs are still unknown
<davmor2> 1,000,000 Dollars muhahahahahahahahahahaha
<diddledan> and also upgrade-after-one-year costs are also unknown
 * daftykins spots davmor2's raised pinky
<diddledan> daftykins: pervert
 * diddledan gets his coat
<davmor2> moves his little finger from the corner of his mouth, no not me mate
<diddledan> "I've let the channel down, I've let all of you down, and worse, I've let myself down"
<davmor2> diddledan: the correct answer is 1p per kb :D
<diddledan> anyone got a calculator?
<davmor2> so how big is windows 10 :D
<directhex> i guess i could install from dvd, i have a blurry drive now
<directhex> usb
<directhex> davmor2: the install, or the installer?
<diddledan> davmor2: before or after extraction?
<davmor2> which is biggest :D
<diddledan> directhex: you need something to bring that drive into focus
<directhex> 2.8gb for 32-bit, an extra gig for 64-bit, for the installer
 * daftykins deletes Windows.old
 * directhex deletes WINDOWS.000 and WINDOWS.BAK
 * directhex installs daftykins to C:\PROGRA~1
 * daftykins segfaults on initial run
 * daftykins is not a 32-bit application
<diddledan> daftykins: you mean "access violation"
<shauno> "please wait while windows looks for a solution to your daftykins"
<daftykins> None found.
<diddledan> does windows _ever_ find a solution to problems?
<shauno> I'm kinda curious if that ..
<shauno> yeah, what he said
<diddledan> certainly it never has for anything it's popped-up for on one of my systems
<daftykins> i turn all that junk off
<daftykins> waste of time
<shauno> I only seem to get it when I kill firefox.  which leaves you thinking "no, windows, that WAS the solution"
<davmor2> diddledan: yes that is why the buy other companies
<daftykins> you know what's amazing? this spare PC had win7 + xubuntu in a dual boot, i ran the win 10 install and GRUB got left alone O_O
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> nowai
<diddledan> that's unpossible!
<daftykins> i've seen it with my own stalks :O
<diddledan> are you sure you weren't dreaming?
<daftykins> mine tend to be a bit more interesting than GRUB's status :>
<diddledan> oh myy
<diddledan> you mean you dream about the whole boot process or taking a computer's chasis off and prodding inside?
<diddledan> speaking of which, I need to watch "ex machina"
<daftykins> wussat?
<diddledan> movie
<diddledan> there's three similar movies about right now: ex machine, automata and chappie
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYGzRB4Pnq8
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> totally unrealistic, no true nerd would live away from a decent net conn
<shauno> Ikeep trying to tell people here that!  I know quite a few who live so far in the sticks that 3g is their home connection
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> i can't tell whether it hampers progress or reduces procrastination
 * daftykins tickles his cats tummy
<shauno> someone was asking me advice on plans because I have a dongle too.  I had to point out that it's just what I use at work to keep me sane.
<daftykins> shauno: does it work? :>
<shauno> ;)
<diddledan> this looks.. interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DODmqNrKh-o
<diddledan> oh that wasn't the right link
<diddledan> I was watching an advert
<diddledan> the advert was for tomorrowland movie
<diddledan> the movie at the link I did paste looks good tho
<ali1234> how do you send a private message on youtube these days?
<diddledan> can you even do that?
<ali1234> you used to be able to
<diddledan> isn't youtube tied into google+ now?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> only the comments, which are public
<mappps> hi all
<MooDoo> howdy mappps
<popey> moo
<diddledan> simon pegg - kill me three times - looks fun
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eO3rYcSMCA
<diddledan> rotten tomatoes says "9%" so it's gonna be awesome!
<diddledan> there's a film remake of "the man from u.n.c.l.e."
<ali1234> guy ritchie?
<diddledan> yup
<ali1234> gonna be terrible
<MooDoo> can't wait for it myself :D
<daftykins> i guess i'm 22 hours into a dead OS now! (typing from irssi on a 10.04.4 VM)
<MooDoo> daftykins: you rebel you lol
<daftykins> oh i don't intend to be, bit odd i only just got a new kernel though
<daftykins> 2.6.32-74-generic-pae
<MooDoo> I tend to stick to latest LTS releases.
<daftykins> same, just now checking my irssi config on the newer install
<daftykins> i skipped 12.04 as it didn't offer any reasons to move :>
<daftykins> smoooooth
<daftykins> nothing like a successful change :>
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> these IRC clients that state someone has a macbook pro, seriously :/
<daftykins> (in quit messages)
<zmoylan-pi> slumming it here instead of using facetime like proper apple drones...
<daftykins> :D
<webpigeon> ... that is a thing o.O
<daftykins> the quits? 'fraid so
<zmoylan-pi> no different from emails with make and model of phone as a signature...
<daftykins> 22:43 -!- doomlord [~textual@host86-184-11-43.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦]
<popey> oh thats textual
<popey> i see that all the time from the design team
<daftykins> i actually advise clients to edit their signatures to something neutral of vendor :P
 * popey notes wifey has been on the phone for over 2 hours
<webpigeon> That's a long convosation...
<popey> indeed
<daftykins> clucking? :)
<zmoylan-pi> is it plugged into charging cable?
<popey> no
<popey> plugged into the side of her head
<popey> http://blog.launchpad.net/general/git-code-hosting-beta
<popey> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> it always amuses me when i see person charging their mobile phone while using it on a call.  kinda defeats the purpose...
<daftykins> which purpose?
<popey> not if you have free calls
<webpigeon> wow, that took a while
<zmoylan-pi> the mobile wireless part
<dutchie> also if you don't have a landline
<daftykins> i don't seem to get phoned from anyones landlines
<popey> i used the landline today for the first time in ages
<popey> other than to shout at people selling me stuff
<daftykins> since i signed up i've had 3 calls on my landline :D first was a wrong number, second was a survey about my sign up process to the telco, third was a friend wanting to save money
 * webpigeon doesn't really use phones for anything but data...
<daftykins> mmm i wonder how far it would get if i tried to contact our utility regulator and say we shouldn't have to have a phone service to have broadband connections...
<zmoylan-pi> can i have the water company deliver the data via sonar in the piping...
<daftykins> what data do you get via water? :>
<zmoylan-pi> 1's and 0's no number twos...
<daftykins> 2's are nightmares for robots like Bender
<diddledan> how is it that bender is the only bending robot to be named after his job?
<zmoylan-pi> because he isn't doing his job?
<penguin42> daftykins: I'm fairly sure in mainland-UK there are providers who will sell you broadband without voice
<zmoylan-pi> there are isp providers who'll sell you broadband without data if you gave them a chance :-)
<diddledan> broadband without voice is one thing. a phone line without voice is another
<diddledan> but aaisp will do it
<zmoylan-pi> leased lines id it all the time
<zmoylan-pi> *did
<zmoylan-pi> all those telex machines...
<penguin42> diddledan: Right yes, I thought a few of them would
<penguin42> the early days had the problem of BT engineers borrowing lines that didn't have a ring-tone on
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder how old the oldest phone cable still in use is...
<zmoylan-pi> though i suspect i have had a modem connected to a few of them... :-)
<elfy> suspecting some random wire wandering around a Scottish glen would do the job
<elfy> or the cable out to Norley Wood
<ali1234> probably something in the american midwest
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one pos location in cork that couldn't sustain data over 4800 at any time
<ali1234> somewhere flat and dry
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: haha, nice
<zmoylan-pi> 1-2 a week dialling in to transfer updates and data...
 * penguin42 bets ones into the old civil defence bunkers are pretty ancient, there were apparently exchanges down there for emergency use
<zmoylan-pi> but laid with super heavy mil spec cable perhaps
<daftykins> still find it weird CPC sells copper coated aluminium
<daftykins> how plain evil
<penguin42> daftykins: Given that CPC sell everything from singing snowmen, teabags to ludicrously expensive test equipment (all possibly on the same catalog page) - it's hardly surprising they sell CCA
<ali1234> teabags? really?
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> heavu duty waterproof teabags? :-D
<ali1234> "pics or it didn't happen"
<penguin42> ali1234: http://cpc.farnell.com/tetley/nwt005/tea-bags-tetley-440pk/dp/OE06093
<ali1234> heh, first hit on google too
<daftykins> that bag looks really swingable
<ali1234> "you may also be interested in: NAILS"
 * penguin42 doesn't get that
<zmoylan-pi> no suggested products for me...
<ali1234> oh, it's cos i followed the link from google
<penguin42> (Not that they're cheap on that - Asda are 2.97 for 240)
<penguin42> I really don't understand how CPC decide what to stock
<daftykins> pin the tail on the donkey, i expect
<ali1234> well, those chinese sellers on ebay make CPC look perfectly normal
<zmoylan-pi> sends us 50kg of nails, screws and throw in 2kg of teabags... they'd make money on remote locations
<penguin42> oh yes, you could pretty much get a kit for everything you need for a new office
<shauno> awww, farnell ireland don't :(
<shauno> I probably would end up buying random junk from them too, because their shipping is awesome here.  they'll next day anything over 20e for free
<penguin42> yeh CPC do the same
<penguin42> (although their next day is more random than it used to be)
<ali1234> shauno: what is cpcireland.farnell.com ?
<shauno> it's been pretty spot-on for me .. even though it goes from leeds to germany to get to me
<penguin42> shauno: Hey?
<shauno> ooooh
<shauno> well that could get me in trouble.  I've only ever used ie.farnell.com, which appears to be quite different
<daftykins> put the TLD is the subdomain!
 * daftykins is confused
<diddledan> com.farnell.ie would be just as weird
<daftykins> ugh Â£47 to renew my .gg
<diddledan> grr
<daftykins> for one year =|
<diddledan> that's nucking futs
 * diddledan sleepy
<daftykins> same here
<daftykins> also, why do i still watch Family Guy - it's not even funny
<diddledan> itunes install on windows is weird - it's gone up to 100% on the progress meter several times
<daftykins> what on earth are you touching that tripe for?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-02
<zmoylan-pi> com.farnell.ie would be so... so... american... :-P
<shauno> I think it should be com.ie.farnell, but that ship has sailed
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/BBgutCEb wtf?
<daftykins> it's a trap!
<Azelphur> never thought I'd see such a daft error on Linux lol
<shauno> heh, "danger will robinson, danger!"
<daftykins> someone's replaced your 'cd' with a trick one
<Azelphur> don't think so, it works fine before and after that
<penguin42> oh that's impressive
<shauno> or it's failed to write to ~/.bash_history
<Azelphur> I see
<daftykins> i found my nano_history owned by root today 0o
<zmoylan-pi> type something nice for all the north korean hackers? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> happy birds tweeting outside my window... probably leeching off my wifi... :-)
<mappps> ;]
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> 5h37 of deep sleep :D
<foobarry> allegedly
<foobarry> 8h of sleep
<TheProphet[S]> Hi all, anyone else having problems logging into graphical mode due to systemd? I'm referring to the bug "starting version 219"
<TheProphet[S]> Bug #1432171
<lubotu3> bug 1432171 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[udev] Shows "starting version 219" boot message even with "quiet"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432171
<ali1234> "starting version 219" is the very first thing systemd prints
<ali1234> just because it is also the last thing you see does not mean systemd is the problem
<TheProphet[S]> Ok, it's not my assessment, it's what cro said in comment #17
<TheProphet[S]> He says that by going back to upstart everything works fine
<TheProphet[S]> His solutions are: " Either replace the display manager startup scripts to work with `systemd`, or remove `systemd` and replace it with `upstart-sys`"
<TheProphet[S]> Now I can't even see the tty properly
<AndChat|336756> Can't see anything now, I can still ssh lickily
<TheProphet[S]> Should I just purge xorg and nvidia drivers and try to start from scratch? Is that even the right way to start from scratch short of formatting?
<TheProphet[S]> This graphical problems I'm having are a nightmare
<mrindeed> help, my computer doesnt lock and i want to be the hibernate which i enabled to be remove from the menu
<mrindeed> help, my computer doesnt lock
<StevenR> anyone else running xubuntu?
<StevenR> I've noticed that when I go to shutdown my laptop, if I click cancel, it still shuts down.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> just clicked cancel... ::waits::
<zmoylan-pi> one hippopotamus... two hippopotamus... three hippopotamus...
<zmoylan-pi> taps spot where i'd have a wrist watch if i wore one...
<zmoylan-pi> nope, not happening here sorry...
<zmoylan-pi> same for logout, other options?
<ali1234> StevenR: that's odd, can you report it please
<ali1234> where exactly did you click on cancel?
<ali1234> also i assume 15.04
<ali1234> trying it in a vm
<ali1234> doesn't seem to do it here
<zmoylan-pi> touchscreen or mouse/trackpad?
<ali1234> doesn't do it on the login screen either (it has a different ui)
<brobostigon> do we have an xmpp/jabber client for ubuntu touch?
<StevenR> ali1234: using the latest LTS
<StevenR> ok. Can no longer replicate it. hmmph.
<ali1234> where exactly did you click cancel?
<ali1234> there's multiple ways to shutdown the computer
<zmoylan-pi> http://catb.org/jargon/html/D/dancing-frog.html :-)
<StevenR> ali1234: I click the little power logo on the bar, select shutdown, hit cancel, the computer shuts down. At least, that's what happened. Doesn't happen now.
<StevenR> ali1234: the little logo has other options, like about this computer
<ali1234> on the bar or on the start menu?
<StevenR> on the bar
<ali1234> wait, latest LTS? so 14.04?
<StevenR> yup
<ali1234> okay i am looking at the wrong version then
<ali1234> i don't have a vanilla 14.04
 * zmoylan-pi just checked... is on 14.04 my kitchen laptop
<ali1234> i can't see any similar reports
<SuperEngineer> if one switches channel and one sees...
<SuperEngineer> ali1234> on the bar or on the start menu?
<SuperEngineer> <StevenR> on the bar
<SuperEngineer> ...one does tend to laugh
<ali1234> xubuntu has a start menu...
<SuperEngineer> [so do many otther other distros, I was reading "bar" as "pub", much better for the brain]
<SuperEngineer> Looking at the /topic I see the beer train [RAT] is still prominent... that must be one one heck of a hangover!
 * SuperEngineer is jealous
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=V-pxI8PlY0o#t=1080
<ali1234> "proactive suggestions"
<ali1234> "help the user find value in the store"
<ali1234> "beautiful pictures"
<ali1234> no, adverts, adverts, adverts... everywhere
<zmoylan-pi> so buy the hardwarem pay for a commercial os and get stuffed with ads...
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm..... how about no
<zmoylan-pi> wow the lag on that stylus sucks
<ali1234> does anyone know of a normal PC case like this: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4-bay-25-qnap-ts-451s-nas-solution-with-intel-celeron-dual-core-cpu-1gb-ram-sata-6gb-s-2x-gigabit-la
<ali1234> those are 2.5" bays
<mappps> so cold
<mappps> 25c
<mappps> ;/
<penguin42> 9c :-(
<mattcarver> Hello there, is it possible to get a quick hand configuring my synaptics touchpad with Ubuntu 15.04
<mattcarver> I would rather appreciate it
<knightwise> mornin peeps
<directhex> ali1234: a PC case with multiple hotswap 2.5" bays?
<ali1234> which is the same size as that one, yes
<ali1234> same form factor, but a standard PC that I can install whatever i want on
<directhex> er... can't think of anything like that from any of the big players in cases
<ali1234> and it doesn't have to be hotswap, just front accessible
<OerHeks> nice, 4 x 2.5" in 5.25" space http://www.mypccase.com/icydotomb4x2.html
<ali1234> yeah, seen those. so then i'd just need a case with 1x 5.25" bay and nothing else
<OerHeks> Not sure you can hotswap in linux though
<ali1234> you can
<directhex> okay, THAT i can find you
<directhex> the smallest possible case with a 5.25" external bay?
<ali1234> i'm interested...
<directhex> mATX okay, or you want ITX?
<ali1234> whichever has the widest selection of motherboards available i guess
<ali1234> whichever is most "standard"
<directhex> mATX by a mile, but mATX is much larger
<directhex> mini-ITX is 17x17cm, mATX is up to 24x24cm
<ali1234> what about NUC?
<directhex> nobody's going to put a 3.5" bay on a NUC
<directhex> and the motherboard in a nuc isn't something you get control over
<ali1234> :(
<directhex> there are a *limited* number of has-a-cpu-socket mini-ITX boards
<directhex> and all micro-ATX boards do
<directhex> but let's take http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0788.html as an example case
<directhex> plus a motherboard from http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/ITX_Motherboards.html and the enclosure suggested by OerHeks
<directhex> or http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0874.html (available in a range of colours)
<directhex> or http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0849.html
<directhex> most mini-ITX cases use laptop slimline optical drives, if any
<ali1234> i'm going to want something that runs cool and silent too
<directhex> how about a pony?
<ali1234> i don't want any optical drive
<directhex> http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_55245.html - passive cooling
<directhex> ali1234: why do you think these cases have any 5.25" bays? just because you're looking to put 4x 2.5" bays in there, doesn't mean that's not why those cases have a 5.25" bay
<ali1234> because they are designed for HTPCs
<directhex> right
<ali1234> i want to build a silent NAS with SSDs that can also run mythtv
<ali1234> (backend not frontend)
<directhex> okay. do it. i gave you three possible cases, and an array of motherboards
<penguin42> ali1234: You can get the same CPUs as the NUCs on full size boards
<directhex> yeah, that works too
<directhex> you'll need to spend the time checking clearance heights for cases vs coolers
<penguin42> directhex: Well, the passive ones you suggested are good - I've got the older MSI c834
<penguin42> oops, c847
<directhex> i am on an MSI kick right now, due to the "Linux out of the box" guarantees
<penguin42> directhex: Well, in the end it's pretty much an Intel chip slapped on the board - not much else there
<directhex> penguin42: ethernet? wifi? vaguely non-broken firmware?
<penguin42> directhex: Yes (RTL), no, vaguely
<directhex> penguin42: i mean in general
<directhex> penguin42: if i buy a gigabyte & the firmware has "boot windows & only windows" breakage, their tech support people will tell me to take a flying leap
<penguin42> directhex: Really it has that kind of breakage?
<directhex> penguin42: such breakages exist
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh, but they are rare and I've found firmware screwups on pretty much everything. TBH the firmware in the MSI doesn't do that much for me, it works but I had some startup problems when I first got it that I'd guess at firmware
<directhex> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html
<penguin42> yeh, I remember that one
<directhex> also, NUCs had the same issue in the shipping firmware
<directhex> had to update to $latest to boot non-windows
<penguin42> that does suck, I expect more from Intel, but was it a general non-windows or was it just a screwup?
<penguin42> that's very different from that Lenovo one
<directhex> in 99.9% of cases, it's screwups
<directhex> even the lenovo one was a screwup
<directhex> we have 40 years of bad BIOS bugs, and the workarounds/fixes to them. we only have a few years of bad UEFI bugs, and the workarounds/fixes to them
<penguin42> yeh but that was a specific string compare screwup, as opposed to say a device setup that doesn't work with some kernels
<directhex> basically, firmware developers are totally terrible at their jobs
<penguin42> I agree on that
<penguin42> my main desktop I have to pass a kernel parameter to get modern kernels to boot on it because of some interrupt remapping kernel
<directhex> the NUC it was also a string compare error iirc
<ali1234> maybe i should just buy the QNAP and use their virtualization thing
<directhex> i.e. it was hardcoded to only boot Windows Boot Manager from the fixed disk
<penguin42> directhex: Ah ok, thats dumb
<directhex> so it would install, but not boot, linuxes (linuxorum?) in EFI mode. fine with BIOS emulation
<penguin42> directhex: The EFI boot process isn't exactly simple
<directhex> yeah... but the BIOS one is total nonsense in 2015
<directhex> "hello, i am an 8088, i will now boot 16-bit 8088 machine code from the first 448 bytes of the first ATA device on the first ISA bus"
<penguin42> yeh, technology
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ATA drive? Hah!
<penguin42> directhex: It's all actually a lot scarier than that; things like figuring out how many CPUs you've got involves reading values from the RTC
<penguin42> all insane
<penguin42> all reasonable bits of evolution at the time
<penguin42> DOS mode FP exceptions, A20 lines etc etc
<directhex> my 6-core 64-bit Haswell-EP is still also an 8088, just in case I want to boot it in the manner of my ancestors
<directhex> er, Haswell-E. Haswell-EP is xeon
<penguin42> yep
<directhex> i expect that to go away, with windows 10 basically killing CSM
<penguin42> directhex: It depends, if they still have to support it working in VMs they might keep the hardware
<directhex> penguin42: well Windows 10 logo certified hardware basically won't have it
<penguin42> directhex: 'wont have it' - you mean it wont have bios compatible boot ?
<directhex> yup
<penguin42> right, that's just the bios module
<ali1234> what exactly is the reason that xeons exist?
<ali1234> ECC support?
<penguin42> ali1234: ECC, and multisocket on some of them
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: more cores per package, ECC, Registered, more money per customer?
<directhex> ali1234: reasons already given. multi-socket, ECC, more cache, more cores
<directhex> my board takes an 18-core chip
<penguin42> directhex: What board is that?
<directhex> penguin42: an X99 board.
<penguin42> and it lets you take the E5- series Xeons?
<directhex> yes
<directhex> my old PC would take xeons too. if it can't take a xeon, it's for plebs!
<penguin42> interesting
<directhex> when intel started doing core i3/5/7, i7 was "basically a xeon", with the i7-9xx range. but people moaned about price, and they shipped the "slightly faster i5" series, the "i7-8xx". it's continued to this day - there's "i'm not a xeon, honest" i7's, and "don't look too closely, or you'll see i'm an i5" i7's
<directhex> so socket 1366 was used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon; 2011 was used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon; 2011-3 is used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon
<penguin42> but aren't the 18 processor beasts multisocket only with different busses (CSI?)
<directhex> X58, X79 and X99 (the relevant chipsets for the above sockets) use the same bus as xeon. hence supporting xeons :p
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_X99
<penguin42> directhex: What's confusing me is that shows DMI2.0 as the interface from the Xeon, where as I thought Xeons used QuickPath
 * penguin42 is just reading http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/xeon-e5-v3-datasheet-vol-1.pdf
<penguin42> ah, it has both
<directhex> QPI for communication between sockets
<directhex> DMI for communication to motherboard chipset
<directhex> my old X58 system was QPI for both
<directhex> well, except for being uniproc
<directhex> but still, QPI for the chipset comms
<penguin42> directhex: Interesting, I hadn't realised this
 * penguin42 observes from that doc that 'Enable Safe Mode boot' and 'Enable Intel Trusted Execution Technology Agent' are pins on the chip
<ali1234> they should just make one CPU, it would be so much easier
<penguin42> ah, the E7's still have a different socket
<penguin42> hmm, although hmm,
<penguin42> that data sheet says the E7v2 socket is 'Socket R1' LGA2011-1
<penguin42> so that's still the same?
<ali1234> okay next stupid question: why do they need so many different sockets? they all look pretty much the same
<directhex> ali1234: It's Complicated
<penguin42> ali1234: It sounds like the answer is they're slowly coming to not having many different sockets
<directhex> ali1234: but, in essence, it's down to how many physical connections the chip needs to the motherboard - for example, an i7-5930k can drive 40 PCIe lanes, an i7-4790K can drive 16
<penguin42> and also you need more pins to get more power into the chip
<directhex> the i7-4790k can do dual-channel memory, the i7-5930k can do quad channel
<directhex> in server chips, some pins are also for inter-socket links
<directhex> IBM POWER8 has 15823 pins (!)
<ali1234> whaaaaat?!?
<penguin42> directhex: But your observation, which is interesting, is that now they're just using the same sockets on the xeons as the i7's and just ignoring the inter-cpu links
<penguin42> directhex: I bet 90% of those are power/ground
<directhex> penguin42: not quite 90%, but good guess
<directhex> 6000 for power, 7700 for ground
<penguin42> not far off :-)
<ali1234> http://www.v3.co.uk/IMG/964/287964/ibm-power8-540x334.jpg?1429512233
<directhex> ali1234: :D
<shauno> 2099 for signals, apparently.  that's still quite a crazy amount
<penguin42> they look quite boring compared to the old MCMs
<penguin42> they also have to be careful just on layout - there's only so many pins you can get out through a PCB from teh centre of a package like that
<ali1234> well, i would guess that's another reason why so many are power/ground
<directhex> penguin42: not if you go deeper!
<ali1234> since you have to route them on the die as well
<penguin42> directhex: There'sa  limit to how many layers you can sanely do as well
<ali1234> yep, power and ground will probably get a layer each
<directhex> for ali1234 , that's another major issue - a socket with more pins needs more layers, and more layers are MUCH more expensive
<shauno> aren't power8 usually used for supercomputers?  I think they can probably budget a few extra layers :)
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh and they start to even get heavy when you get really thick boards - one place I worked did a backplane that was getting silly
<penguin42> shauno: They're also available as servers - I think 2Uish
<directhex> they're billing power8 as a cloud server chip
<penguin42> directhex: By putting the word 'cloud' on the billing
<directhex> :D
<penguin42> shauno: http://www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/
<shauno> I can't imagine what makes it particularly cloudy, other than being 8-core
<directhex> i'm going to bed
<penguin42> that's a good place to be
#ubuntu-uk 2015-05-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing today :)
<brobostigon> not bad, and you? knightwise
 * brobostigon has a few questions about ubuntu touch, and about the system upgrade process depending on the type on install.
<knightwise> doing ok , just restoring my Surface pro tablet to Windows 8.1
<knightwise> I need to do a prsentation on the cloud pretty soon
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> not obvious to restore it after you installed ubuntu on it :)
<knightwise> brobostigon: your question about ubuntu touch. Is that on the phone or the pc  ?
<brobostigon> ah,
<brobostigon> knightwise: phone.
<knightwise> ok , lets see if i can help you
<knightwise> what would you like to know ,
<brobostigon> ok, if i do an install into my nexus 4, ie, full install not dual booted in some way, will ubuntu touch versions upgrades work as normally.?
<knightwise> i have no experience with that , i just bought the bq preinstalled :(
<brobostigon> ok,
<knightwise> but i do think you'll get the updates
<brobostigon> ok, ty. but it has to be a full proper install?
<knightwise> of that i'm not sure
<knightwise> when i tried it on the nexus 7 , there was no dual boot
<brobostigon> so you did a full install with phablet-tools?
<knightwise> yep , but this was about a year ago
<brobostigon> ok,
<knightwise> sorry i'm not much help ..
<knightwise> now I have to say , my first impressions of ubuntu phone are .. mixed
<popey> brobostigon: yes
<popey> if you install ubuntu touch on the nexus 4 you'll get over the air updates
<brobostigon> but not in dualboot?
<brobostigon> updates depending on which channel i choose as well?
<popey> I don't know anything about dual boot, never done it
<brobostigon> ok,
<DanChapman> updates work for dual boot aswell.
<DanChapman> wel the used to when i used multirom manager
<DanChapman> s/the/they
<brobostigon> ok, ty you both.
<popey> I haven't charged my bq phone for at least 2 days. still 62% battery
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> haven't charged my nokia for 3 still 100% :-P
<brobostigon> is anyone familier with trouble shooting fb's sms notifications,?
<mappps> ordered a new portable charger..stupid connectors seem to have become a bit dodgy on my anker one
<mappps> having to hold the cable while it charges is no fun;)
<daftykins> sounds like someone does not baby their possessions enough!
<mappps> pfft
<mappps> i kept it in my pocket while phne charges its portable..for out and about
<mappps> it works fine..just have to hold the USB cable in
<mappps> which well kinda sucks :)
<daftykins> aaah loving win10 so much, lovely fast UI
<mappps> really?
<mappps> running in a VM?
<daftykins> nah on this spare quad core desktop i have
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/win10-10074.png
<mappps> ah cool
<mappps> how much ram?
<daftykins> says right there
<daftykins> ;]
<mappps> ah
<daftykins> super snappy despite some low end nvidia card
<mappps> nice
<mappps> not used it yet myself
<mappps> was talking to someone yesterday still using vista lol
<mappps> either use XP or 7..vista ugh
<mappps> and obv now support's ended finally for xp
<daftykins> XP should not be touched, nah
<daftykins> plus i'd rather not see its' installer ever again
<daftykins> still get people coming in #ubuntu after a suggestion on what to install on their ancient netbooks, amusingly
<daftykins> i say bury the damn things
<mappps> but vista?
<mappps> pfff
<mappps> i love my netbook;)
<mappps> on it now:P
<mappps> samsung nc10
<mappps> perfect little machine..brilliant for travelling
<mappps> use lubuntu/xubuntu/win7 all run fine on them
<diddledan> the hampshire police had a thingie in sainsbury's which allowed you to sign up for some spam service they're offering. it was running vista.
<mappps> heh
<mappps> vista ugh
<diddledan> this was on wednesday
<mappps> i dont think i used it for more than a day
<mappps> stuck with xp then onto 7
<mappps> for my windows adventures
<daftykins> mappps: you probably just have very low standards on how a machine should perform ;)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, nice to see such a closed mind at work - your comment re netbooks... you obviously have never heard of Ubuntu MATE ;)
<mappps> pfff
<mappps> :)
<daftykins> Vista is terrible yeah, 7 was a great improvement
<mappps> yea
<daftykins> and in fact 10 is to 7 as 7 is to Vista, so far
<mappps> really?
<mappps> I#ll try 10 eventually..i've got the ISO dl but not got round to it
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: closed mind? netbooks sucked when they came out, in the bin they belong
<daftykins> (well electronics recycling ideally)
<mappps> pfff
<mappps> il have them all then
<daftykins> mappps: probably the wrong version now, it's on build 10074 right now
<mappps> il give netbooks a good home
<mappps> yea will be an old build
<mappps> wll grab a new build later
<daftykins> definitely keen for it to go gold :D
<daftykins> rumoured release of July apparently
<mappps> what's gold mean?
<mappps> production i guess
<daftykins> yes, final
<zmoylan-pi> i love netbooks
<mappps> ya
<daftykins> though in MS terms it's typically RTM - release to manufacturing
<mappps> yay
<mappps> what ne you got zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> i still have my olpc and a hp netbook with a 14hour battery life
<mappps> nice
<mappps> 14hr is impressive
<zmoylan-pi> slow but it just keeps going
<daftykins> you need that time to get anything finished ;)
<zmoylan-pi> well i can off load processing jobs to servers and desktops nearby while i sit in garden with decent keyboard and battery life.
<zmoylan-pi> ultrabooks which were meant to replace them have gone nowhere.  the netbook has come back in a new guise as chromebooks
<zmoylan-pi> even ms were flogging cheap windows laptops that were netbooks in all but name
<daftykins> meh, my asus i5 sandybridge does 10hrs
<zmoylan-pi> some people can't get by with the small screens and keyboards but for me as someone who uses public transport i prefer small
<daftykins> that FHD Dell XPS 13 does 15hrs :D
<diddledan> FHD: It's Flippin' HD Dammit
<zmoylan-pi> that's what you said fhd :-)
<daftykins> Full HD
<daftykins> as sadly HD beans 1280x720 up :(
<daftykins> beans!? means
<daftykins> this keyboard is odd
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> 720 = CHD aka Crud HD
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> or NRHD : Not Really HD
<daftykins> PTTTHD, pretender to the throne HD!
<diddledan> or HHWGYMNHD aka HA HA We Got Your Money Now HD
 * zmoylan-pi waits for i can't belive it's not hd
<diddledan> speaking of which, you know butter.. I can't believe it's not "I can't believe it's not butter"
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> and related, don't try to spoonerism the "Vicker of Dibley"
<diddledan> have I spelled that right?
<diddledan> vicar
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ugh i plugged my secondary screen in over VGA, text on here is so blurry XD
<daftykins> them thar first world problems
<daftykins> or 1.1 since it's Guernsey
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if i can still get my mitts on a working cga monitor...
<daftykins> think my old man's hiding an amiga one from my mum somewhere :D
<diddledan> I've got a black-n-white cga monitor from an AMSTRAD PC1512
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, hang around the electronics skip at your local recycling centr... you'll probably own one within an hour!
<daftykins> my dads mate calls that place Meerkey alley
<daftykins> er Meerkat
<diddledan> meerkey alleys are where the dirty women live
<diddledan> I don't mean dirty as in grubby, either! :-p
 * zmoylan-pi remebers when dec in ireland threw out a skip load of alpha powered workstations.  word went out on the grapevine and a lad from the office snagged one onto his scooter... kids were hauling them away on skateboards as he left
<daftykins> haha
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shauno> I used to work in dec's old factory.  I took a peek around, but there's nothing left
 * popey generates openstreetmap tiles for portugal for the lulz
<popey> wonder how much disk space this will take
<zmoylan-pi> cheaper than the roaming rates :-)
<popey> exactly :)
<popey> making my own little offline osm webapp
<ging> didn't this channel used to be a lot more full?
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I've got two raspberry pis that were given to me by a friend, it looks like they may both be broken though. I'll start off with the most functional one, It turns on, starts to boot raspbian, then just boot loops. I had it boot once or twice, but it froze after a few seconds. Any ideas?
 * penguin42 assumes you tried with different SDs ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: 3 different SDs, one of which is an official Raspberry pi one
<penguin42> and different power supplies etc?
<Azelphur> yup
<penguin42> have you got a working Pi ?
<Azelphur> nope
<penguin42> hmm, neither have I - I just thought it would be good to test the SD/Powersupply etc combination with a good Pi
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> have you tested the sd cards?
<Azelphur> I mean I have it on a 1A charger that was designed for the tiny TP-Link router
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope
<ali1234> there's probably a reason why you got given this stuff
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, he died :P
<penguin42> how inconsiderate
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> but I know he treated his stuff real bad, so it's no wonder if it's broken
<ali1234> test the SD cards first
<penguin42> Azelphur: Have you got an SD card of your own you could try writing ?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> ali1234: how would I test them? :)
<ali1234> put it in an SD card reader and try to read it?
<Azelphur> oh
<penguin42> yeh, checking you can do a full read   dd if=/dev/sdwhatever of=/dev/null bs=1024k
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea they all pass that test obviously, I had to write the OS to them..
<ali1234> second get a bigger power supply
<Azelphur> ali1234: I tried them on my Bolse smart charger that does 2.4 on a port I think
<ali1234> 1A is not enough for the original pi with a keyboard and mouse and HDMI plugged in to it
<Azelphur> I have power, hdmi and sd, NOTHING else
<ali1234> 2A should be though
<ali1234> chargers aren't much good either, they sag under load
<ali1234> consider that you only need 4.2V to charge a lipo
<Azelphur> I tried a bunch of different ones, the ones for my Tablet, and even a USB Battery, none of them brought it to life
<penguin42> I had heard the Pi was fussy
<penguin42> but I don't have one
<ali1234> sounds broken then
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-02
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<daftykins> happy bank holiday \o
<AuroraAvenue> knightwise: Good moro, kind sirs.
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> how are you doing
<daftykins> all good here ta, trying out this game 'Dark Souls' (#1) - and yourself?
<knightwise> Just got into work.
<knightwise> and running some posts on facebook about this weeks podcast
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brmbrmcar> Good morning
<knightwise> hmm,  ffmpeg doesnt want to behave
<knightwise> Ive been trying to convert some webm files to mp3 but keep getting errors
<brobostigon> :(
<AuroraAvenue> Leicester will be crowned champions if Tottenham fail to beat Chelsea tonight . http://ow.ly/4njgUq
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> that's a quirky task!
<AuroraAvenue> What's that daftykins ?
<knightwise> still can't believe we don't have a client for the Google Drive these days
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> you'd sooner get a OneDrive client ;
<daftykins> ;D
 * brobostigon has a more simple wishlist, irssinotifier for ubuntu touch.
<knightwise> daftykins: you are probably right
<daftykins> i'm not even hugely impressed by the G Drive client in Windows land, i put it in at a clients with their documents sat inside it hoping for auto backup, most times i visit it's not even running in the system tray... and it breaks the windows indexer service so search doesn't work (well) in there - even on an SSD say
<popey> MOrning
<popey> brobostigon: I'd like that too!
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> wouldn't it be easier to use one of these more modern clients that lurks on one host and you can connect in from multiple device types?
<daftykins> znc or such like
<brobostigon> ssh?
<daftykins> no
<daftykins> that's general purpose ;)
<popey> not really, i only want it for notifications
<popey> and I already use irssi
<popey> Myrtti: do you know the irssinotifier developer? I have a vague recollection you said you did.
<daftykins> i can't think of the names but i'm sure there're more modern approaches to the whole thing that'd tie that in, but i too use irssi and can't be bothered to branch out!
<Myrtti> popey: icb bloke I know, but I probably could get in touch with the in guy too, easily, why?
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> https://github.com/murgo/IrssiNotifier
<popey> oh!
<popey> ta
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> The Synology Sync client on my linux machine is a tad slow
<knightwise> but it appears to do the job
<knightwise> I'm happy it works though.
<daftykins> that the backup only type one, or the home dropbox type one?
<knightwise> Home dropbox type one
<knightwise> works pretty smoothly these days
<daftykins> mmm, i debated trying it for some folks - a home OpenVPN setup letting them browse to mapped drives to docs seems useful also
<knightwise> true , but I'm not always able to setup a vpn,
<knightwise> mostly i work behind clients firewalls en stuff
<daftykins> *nod* i'm sure the circumstances always vary
<knightwise> so I run into scenarios where they dont allow me to dail in
<knightwise> + its essential for me that I can work offline too
<knightwise> When I do presentations I always need to have a realtime copy of the presentation on my laptop and on the home server
<knightwise> just in case something happens
<daftykins> just had an email from an uncle who wants to try out connecting back into his office as it goes! what timing
<knightwise> 4
<knightwise> sorry , wrong window
<daftykins> i blame zmoylan-pi
 * daftykins whistles
 * zmoylan-pi puts the cattle prod on charge...
<daftykins> oh hi!
<zmoylan-pi> hi daftykins lets meetup... >:-)
<daftykins> i'm free on the first of neveruary
 * zmoylan-pi lobbies for changing the names of months...
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be a cold day in neveruary...
<daftykins> do you have a day off over on the Emerald Isle today, sir?
<zmoylan-pi> tis a bank holiday.  for all us socailists comrade
<daftykins> ah har
<zmoylan-pi> the government tried to get rid of such a soviet holiday a few years back and the country just took the day off so lesson learned they stopped trying
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> here on the rock we have another one next Monday as it's liberation day!
<zmoylan-pi> midnight-6am of may 1st was listening to state radio station broadcasting the dawn chorus from all across europe.  was wonderful
<zmoylan-pi> the russian section with russian wildlife expert and translator *PLUS* time lag was particularly surreal... :-)
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> the austrian section were they had to relocate as the middle of the forest they had chosen was for some reason the source of a huge party...
<daftykins> :D oops
<knightwise> Calibre + conversion of Epubs and 'send-to-kindle' is the bomb :)
<zmoylan-pi> the norwegians who found the irish engineers excitement really funny at been up at dawn in minus umpteen degrees listening to critturs they couldn't see
 * zmoylan-pi makes sign of the ebook at mention of calibre as it is a lifesaver...
<knightwise> Agreed !
<knightwise> Went for a nice walk yesterday .. explored some of the regions of the mine of Cheratte:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mine_of_Hasard_de_Cheratte
<knightwise> Urban explorers wet dream
 * zmoylan-pi limped to shops for a few hours.  spotted a heron by the seaside again, plus cormorants drying out which always looks cool to me
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-03
<mappps> hi
<daftykins> mornin' o/
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mappps> sup
<daftykins> mmm woke up early, caught a baseball game... now trying out this Night Manager series
<mappps> ah its decent
<mappps> i enjoyed it
<daftykins> mappps: some amazing scenes in this
<daftykins> Mallorca :o
<mappps> hey yea
<mappps> i think it set in the most expensive villa in majora
<daftykins> :D
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> howdy \o
<gregoryfenton_>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER gregoryfenton_ hwztweyzxrtb
<gregoryfenton_> sorry
<daftykins> best to use the status window for such commands, :)
<gregoryfenton_> Copy paste is the devil
<daftykins> indeed!
<davmor2> Morning all happy Monday that isn't
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> myh
<bashrc> fake mondays
<brobostigon> is that like fake coffee thats made of sawdust?
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Mon^H^H^HTuesday, and (one for the X-Philes) happy Paranormal Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: can only be these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe93CLbHjxQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdNLUT0MdNg
<foobarry> i haz a new doggy
<popey> yay
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/wFda5i4.jpg
<foobarry> he's super friendly with kids and dogs
<popey> awwww
<zmoylan-pi> he looks worried, has he seen your backup implementation? :-)
<foobarry> he was watching my son play mario kart
<foobarry> zmoylan-pi: i saw your name in linux voice :D
<foobarry> did you knwo you were in it
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> no, screenshot of irc channel?
<foobarry> https://www.linuxvoice.com/issues/018/Linux-Voice-Issue-018.pdf page 23
<foobarry> yep
<knightwise> installing 16.04 in a vm. I want to make sure my synology client works on it before I do an inplace upgrad
<foobarry> does unity8 work with nvidia drivers?
<popey> foobarry: not yet
<foobarry> ah, ta popey i thought i saw something about a versino in march that supported it
<davmor2> foobarry: initial support is in the latest released that doesn't necessarily mean available for us yet :)  Soon though at a guess
<diddledan> this looks terrible: https://youtu.be/QlSAiI3xMh4
<diddledan> problem is Iâm gonna watch it
<popey> oh gosh, that looks awful
<knightwise> oliver stone , mr bru-ha USA is going to do this movie ?
<knightwise> the man from platoon, no ?
<diddledan> popey: it really does!
<aptanet> Anyone know the relationship between Ubuntu Software, Software Updater and the notifications of updates? Are they looking at different things?
<diddledan> theyâre all looking at apt
<aptanet> In which case why do I keep getting a notification of available updates when Software Updater can't find any?
<aptanet> and why did Software Update put some updates in this morning, when Ubuntu Software was and still is showing one update?
<aptanet> although what it is I don't know, it just says OS Updates, which is about as vague as Windows!
<DJones> aptanet: I get the same thing,looks like its a bug with some software conflicts being held up, for me its libjpeg-turbo-progs which conflits with another version
<aptanet> ooh, apt-get update lists 19 updates that Software Updater can't see
<DJones> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16201756/
<aptanet> Nothing listed as needing removing, I did an autoremove this morning and thought all was sorted
<davmor2> popey: that's not fair, Eye gaugingly painful might be a better description
<aptanet> I've only just found apt, I used apt-get (etc.) for ages, then switched to aptitude (although apt-get is still needed once in a while to sort out the database)
<aptanet> it would be nice to have a single recommended tool rather than several almost complete options
<aptanet> Hmm, looks like the Ubuntu Software 1 update was actually 12, I'll see how things go with future updates
<aptanet> So far 16.04 seems pretty unexciting, but I guess that's better than exciting in the wrong way :)
<davmor2> aptanet: you'll find a down arrow in update-manager if you click on that it will break down all the packages being installed.  Some of them only list an overview for end user that don't care about every change and just want an overview
<aptanet> davmor2: it was Ubuntu Software that was being vague, Software Updater (update-manager) didn't see any updates at all
<aptanet> I only tend to use the GUI tools when they pop up telling me there are updates, I'm generally much happier in the cli
<aptanet> GUIs are getting dumbed down so much they are making things difficult!
<davmor2> aptanet: yes gnome-software only shows updates for applications it knows about. So it would see all the ones that update-manager and apt will know about
<aptanet> well it was seeing more than update-manager and less than apt until I updated
<aptanet> update-manager 0; gnome-software 1; apt 10
<aptanet> although updating through gnome-software seemed to update all 10, whereas update-manager updated nothing
<aptanet> well, it did a batch this morning, but I was getting notifications of updates yesterday that it didn't see and then more this afternoon that it missed too
<aptanet> not causing problems, I just get curious when things don't match up!
<aptanet> right, back to sorting out the letsencrypt renewal script
<bashrc> I have one of those already
<aptanet> I've been playing with the official one and it falls over everywhere on my apache configuration
<aptanet> I wish their online support was nicer, I'm not a fan of the sort of forum they are using (well, any forums really I guess)
<aptanet> the format is even harder to work with than standard forums :(
 * diddledan blames popey
<Seeker`> for anything in particular?
<diddledan> he told me to
<Seeker`> or just everything?
<diddledan> ubuntu-uos
<diddledan> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22661/ubuntu-community-qa/
<Seeker`> fair enough :P
<daftykins> hrmm openvpn setup at my uncles is immensely unreliable
<daftykins> i wonder if 14.04.4 server with the 4.2 kernel was a mistake
<diddledan> I canât decide which track to watch for the next uos session
<diddledan> Iâm trying to decide between âsupporting legacy apps in mir and snappyâ from convergence track and âsnappy interfacesâ from the core track
<diddledan> Iâve gone with convergence
<daftykins> an old girlfriend of mine used to have a t-shirt with a crocodile on it and the words "don't be snappy!"
<zmoylan-pi> kids tv is a little darker than i remember... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k
<daftykins> heeey wait a minute that seesaw isn't SAFE!
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough i confess we made it ourselves
<popey> ooh, that's excellent
<zmoylan-pi> now if they'd do the same with postman pat and the wombles... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> zombie wombles...
<zmoylan-pi> there is a an irish skit of postman pat that is slightly too rude to post even in ireland... :-)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> arsen sam has sadly all but disappeared from online sources, at least last time i looked
<zmoylan-pi> the net isn't forever despite what you hear
<daftykins> whoever came up with that idea was a genius, play it backwards and voice over explaining why Sam starts fires everywhere
<daftykins> gives back the sandwiches at the end... "your sandwiches were rubbish, as usual!"
<zmoylan-pi> remember the magic roundabout was surral as the english dubbed over french cartoon with completely different scripts iirc
<daftykins> haha really? that's new to me - but then that one was before my time
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Roundabout#English-language_version cheaper than buying/translating the scipts
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: daftykins: magic roundabout wasnât translated at all - the stories of the English language version were invented to match the actions rather than translated
<diddledan> yeah, wiki knows all!
<diddledan> I wonder if thereâs a wookie on wiki anywhere?
<zmoylan-pi> a cookie eating wookie on wiki...
<daftykins> interviewed by ricki lake
<diddledan> is she still going?
<daftykins> i'm not even sure
<zmoylan-pi> it is 2016... *dun* *dun* *dun*
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you fool 2016 isn't done if it was it would be 2017 :P
 * zmoylan-pi puts on copper underwear and steps away from davmor2 in case of lightning...
<daftykins> hmm imagining zmoylan-pi in copper underwear seems to have killed the channel for an hour
<zmoylan-pi> it depolarises the elctron stream... well known fact...
<diddledan> I cross those
<foobarry> can anyone recommend a micro usb->hdmi cable for my tablet?
<diddledan> you should ordinarily never cross the depolarised electron streams
<foobarry> do i need a fancy converter?
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're wearing electrum underwear in which case it's fine
<foobarry> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/251791488365?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=1006886&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-156022141026&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122
<foobarry> or would this work?
<foobarry> ebay urls you suck
<diddledan> foobarry: unfortunately micro-usb and micro-hdmi connectors are different
<diddledan> theyâre shaped differently
<diddledan> I think thatâs the case, anywho
<diddledan> remember IANAL
<foobarry> what would i need to connect a hudl2 and/or kindle fire 2015 to a telly?
<diddledan> well that link says it works with the hudl2 so .. I guess itâs ok?
<diddledan> itâs 2.85 so not too much of a pain if it doesnât work
<foobarry> oh wow, i have a micro hdmi on the side
<daftykins> best not tell the wife
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> so micro hdmi -> hdmi would work?
<zmoylan-pi> it's a battle wound you got facing a scart in it's natural habitat... :-P
<foobarry> 2.85, what a rip
<foobarry> i'm getting a 2.49 one
<zmoylan-pi> and spending the 36p on a packet of crisps to celebrate? :-P
<daftykins> boat officially pushed out!
<zmoylan-pi> party like it's 2016 and just out of a recession
<foobarry> won't work on kindle fire though, might need a special thing
<daftykins> bearing in mind most apps that you would probably want to pipe out of a tablet into a large screen disallow playback on connected displays i think
<daftykins> unless they got rid of all of that
<zmoylan-pi> if they got if that it would be helpful to people so i'm going to guess no...
<foobarry> really?
<foobarry> why would they disallow
<daftykins> not sure, i remember hearing folk say things like catchup TV services disallowed it
<daftykins> might want to check any apps you'd want to use to see what they do or don't, an amazon FireTV is a great investment if so
<daftykins> (full one, not the stick)
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxZquE0vEHc seems ok for the hudl
<foobarry> hudl2
<foobarry> shame about lack of root on it
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-04
<mapps> hi
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> mooning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls,
<MooDoo> patched my servers with the new openssl :)
 * bashrc just did the same
<davmor2> fancy virgin switching cable in off peak times
<davmor2> don't they think about the home workers o/
<diplo> Well
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Star Wars Day! ð  May the fourth be with you!
<foobarry> is there a way to ask irssi not to notify where there is activity in a channel?
<foobarry> i want to lurk but not get the white channel number showing activity
<davmor2> JamesTait:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI2CZikoxo0 and erm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNv5sPu0C1E
<davmor2> JamesTait: feel free to watch the rest of the starwars epic rap battles :D
<diplo> foobarry: activity_hide_targets
<foobarry> for a specific chan diplo ?
<diplo> so /set activity_hide_targets #channel1 #channel2
<Myrtti> /set act
<diplo> Myrtti is the irssi master :P
<Myrtti> I've got activity_hide_level = modes joins quits parts nicks
<Myrtti> and some channels that don't show up at all
<foobarry> thanks guys
<foobarry> and ladies
<foobarry> thats helpful
<rossigee> #openstack
<foobarry> #pigeons
<diplo> hehe I was going to do that then thought it was chilidish or something :P
<zmoylan-pi> #tumbleweed
<daftykins> oy, unreliable VPN servers are no fun :>
<zmoylan-pi> they are a test of your ability to be calm in a crisis
<daftykins> ah it's only a test implementation thankfully, so no stress :>
<daftykins> and no crisis!
 * zmoylan-pi wiggles the cable running daftykins internet...
<daftykins> i had a puncture again whilst out yesterday, walked it past the bike shop on the way home and picked up some far more road suitable tires \o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q08ff5n8urtive8/AABOCs5plGUTxeITwfNSz1s6a?dl=0
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> this thing flies now, so i'll at least be able to go and prod this troublemaking machine in record time ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i used to just carry a spare tube in my backpack and could replace punctured tube in about 10 mins by side of the road..
<daftykins> carrying a pump as well would be a pain :>
<daftykins> thankfully the islands not so big!
<zmoylan-pi> well now you can carry co2 cannister and tiny gizmo to inflate tyres. but i carried a heavy steel pump as it worked wonders with dogs that liked to nibble cyclists
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> most dogs you could push away but some more /persistent/ dogs needed a tap on backside to go away
<zmoylan-pi> you learn these things as you're trying to merge onto a roundabout with a bus on your arse, a truck cutting across you and a dog clamped onto your leg...
<daftykins> that's quite the image - i can see you shouting "no free rides!"
<zmoylan-pi> my battle cry was simpler... *NO* *BRAKES* >:-D
<zmoylan-pi> made pedestrains crossing against the lights part like red sea
<daftykins> \FLAC\The Offspring\Americana (1998)\10 - The Offspring - No Brakes.flac
<daftykins> ;D
 * arsenip awakes, pokes daftykins 
<daftykins> arsenip: eep
<arsenip> love that my hightlight hilights 'arsen' but not 'arsenip'
<arsenip> you mentioned me, i arose
<daftykins> as soon as i typed that i thought it might have highlighted you XD
<arsenip> :D
<daftykins> arsenip: no way i'm using my old Sony TX3XP as a test VPN server
<daftykins> about all it's good for now, totally dead battery - 1GB RAM and single core :>
 * zmoylan-pi puts hands over my rasp pi's ears and tells it to ignore the nasty man... :-)
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> my music player is producing a loud hiss, where other apps aren't :S
<zmoylan-pi> some mixer setting?
<foobarry> eq is flat
<foobarry> clementine music player
<daftykins> it must be trying to scare away Indiana Jones
<zmoylan-pi> and no snake has entered your room?
<foobarry> http://xps13-9333.appspot.com/#background_noise
<foobarry> however my music player is producing it, not the video player
<foobarry> same song plugged into my dell with same music player is fine
<foobarry> oh, its clementine. how sad. other music player is fine
<daftykins> nuke its' config?
<zmoylan-pi> it's an odd one...
<foobarry> will be next step i think
<foobarry> or at least login guest mode and play the track
<foobarry> i just upgraded to no avail
<foobarry> mv Clementine Clementine.old indeed fixes the hiss
<foobarry> thanks for encouragin me to do the obvious
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> gave you someone to blame if it didn't :-)
<daftykins> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and now by technical support legacy any problems foobarry has for next 10 years are daftykins fault... :-P
<foobarry> i was scared of doing a library rescan
<foobarry> but it's done it already
<foobarry> i lost my playlists though
<zmoylan-pi> nothing annoys me more than that especially when all i did was ejecy memory card on device to copy non music on or off...
<daftykins> foobarry: perhaps clementine uses a sane config format so you can pinch them from the .old?
<foobarry> just dunnit
<foobarry> hopefully thats the end of the faffing
<foobarry> clementine still rules
<foobarry> and it has the hypnotoad
<daftykins> huh?
<foobarry> what!
<zmoylan-pi> wow!
<foobarry> importing the old playlist , the hiss is back!
<daftykins> O_O
<foobarry> only on that playlist
<zmoylan-pi> double wow!
<zmoylan-pi> is it trying to do gapless playback...
<daftykins> an oft underappreciated feature
<foobarry> i removed duplicates and it removed half the list, including good tracks
<foobarry> which fixed the hiss
<foobarry> super weird
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a size related problem.  big playlists cause some wackiness?
<daftykins> you'd not think any such playlist entry issue would make it modify the sound O_O
<zmoylan-pi> no, but old software can 'acquire' weird features
<foobarry> its not that big a playlist
<foobarry> it has some non english characters in it
<daftykins> milk skin on a latte :(
<zmoylan-pi> #first world problems
<davmor2> daftykins: could be worse, could be a ring of milk loving wasps
<aptanet> bah, my updates are all over the place again, apt and update-manager show 3 ssl updates and gnome-software tells me there's nothing
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> better call customs as i hear they might be smugglers... https://www.dropbox.com/s/aohmjkpp4knvn4d/HeathrowAirport_2016-May-04.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> well that's that controller fired, VTOL gear could've gone on the helipad!
<davmor2> aptanet: gnome-software only tells you about software it knows about and it only knows a limited amount it has to be a app with a .desktop file to launch it for example so it most likely won't know about so low level ssl lib
<aptanet> ah, so in other words ignore it as it is of little use then
<aptanet> it does seem to have replaced update-manager as the source of notifications of updates, so I assumed with it replacing the software centre it was the new go to place
<davmor2> aptanet: Nope. It possibly will latter but not right now
<aptanet> I'll stop worrying about it and go back to the cli, far less confusing that all these gui things that try to make things easy!
<daftykins> :) too right
<aptanet> the first time I noticed the concept was years ago on a navigation course I did, they tried to make it easy for people and confused me completely
<aptanet> when I decided to ignore the teacher and stick with mathematical vectors I was quite happy
 * daftykins cracks out the polos
<foobarry> fruitellas
<diplo> grapes
<ali1234> how can i add a shell script to the unity launcher?
<ali1234> pin it, i mean
<popey> create a .desktop file :(
<ali1234> i did that, it doesn't show up in the launcher or in the dash :/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-05
<mappps> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> ;]
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> i have this song in my head today
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp2qcCrdBLA
<foobarry> is there a way to turn off nicklist in irssi for certain channels? that would be great. big channels i don't care, but < 10 ppl i do need to see the nicks
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy World Password Day! (passwordday.org) ð ð ð
<zmoylan-pi> as long as no one else uses password password i'll be grand...
<diplo> I use p@ssword1234 - 12 characters and numbers!!!1=111~!
<JamesTait> At parents' evening a few weeks ago, one of the teachers was wanting to get away and had been entrusted with another teacher's account to close off some report.  So he then passed on the username and password to the teacher I was with.
<JamesTait> "His password is password...."
<diplo> Did you have a word ?
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRFHXMQP-QU pretty good password right there
<diplo> My girlfriend is ateacher, they have ipads ( quite a lot of them ) there account password is a townname and the year.... this is devices with kids info on it! I couldn't believe it really, they seem so lax about it
<JamesTait> I held my tongue, because the words that wanted to come out of my mouth would likely have had me escorted off the premises.
<diplo> I have thought about looking into what they should have in place ( even though my kids don't go to this school ) mine might be just as bad
<bashrc> given the choice people will choose bad passwords, and so this is why for my own projects I generate random passwords and then get users to write them down
<JamesTait> I didn't manage to stifle the snort of disbelief, though, which got me a raised eyebrow.
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLE7zsJk4AI is the best password related video
<diplo> heh that is good :P
<foobarry> anyone remember the bladerunner spoof where he tries to load windows?
<zmoylan-pi> would explain why all the robots were homocidal... :-P
<diplo> Nope, I may google that
<foobarry> i can't find it :( my google fu aint working
<zmoylan-pi> this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s2sTif3yS4
<foobarry> its a spoof of this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0
<foobarry> he's in his dark house trying to boot windows on that thing and getting BSOD
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD-MdiUm1_Y song stuck in my head today :)
<daftykins> hrmm here's that track Led Zep are being dragged through the courts accused of pilfering for 'Stairway' : https://youtu.be/xd8AVbwB_6E?t=40
<foobarry> this predates stiairway?
<SuperMatt> daftykins: hasn't thing been going on for years?
<daftykins> foobarry: allegedly
<daftykins> ah yes allegedly 50 years running, now
<SuperMatt> it's one of those legal battles which will keep going on until one side runs out of money
<foobarry> stoopid lawyers
<SuperMatt> and I can guarantee it won't be Led Zepp
<zmoylan-pi> non stupid lawyers, lawyers putting their kids through lawyer school on one job
<daftykins> i heard it on the radio and meant to read up on it
<daftykins> sounds like a lot of Led Zep's tracks have attracted such attention over the years o0
<SuperMatt> problem is, there's no such thing as a song that cannot have some claim put on it
<SuperMatt> A band I love, Dream Theater, even name sections of their songs after the tunes that inspired them
<daftykins> mmm, all a bit messy - i'd link to the article i found on bloomberg but it has a particularly inappropriate header image that you'd not want to open at work
<SuperMatt> they're even on video saying "and this is the inspector gadget section"
<zmoylan-pi> well some tunes predate copyright and they are public domain. still get illegal claims on them that have to be beaten off
<daftykins> http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-led-zeppelin-trial/img/filing-chart.jpg
<daftykins> that's amusing
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: my VPN tweaking mission continues :) i have to ride back and remove a ; i added to the config breaking things today :|
<daftykins> i've been riding there, setting things up, then riding to my friends art gallery nearby to use their connection for testing before riding home :D
<popey> can you not test over 3g?
<zmoylan-pi> well ride safe...
<daftykins> popey: weirdly where my uncle lives, i get a really shoddy mobile data connection
<daftykins> but as the intended uses are services unavailable from my phone, it needs a proper test over broadband really
<popey> bummer
<daftykins> for example, trying to hit google with a search of "my ip" to see the IP change, was taking north of 40 seconds to load
<daftykins> to be honest i think i need to tell him that his 20/1 ADSL service is far too inadequate, needs to move up to the 40/5 VDSL like i'm on
<daftykins> openVPN running via UDP was just not even cutting it until i switched it to TCP
<daftykins> and then it had upwards of 1.5 seconds of latency routing just a ping O_O
<daftykins> ah well, we wouldn't want it to be easy now, would we? :)
<daftykins> https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
 * daftykins chuckles
<SuperMatt> yeah, I looked at a bit of that
<SuperMatt> completely the wrong thing for apple to do
<daftykins> i raised an eyebrow when a client had sync'd a new iPod to her desktop iMac, but on pulling it out down in Spain to play some music discovered it was empty
<daftykins> but Apple things just work! ;)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/rit/status/549814266094551040
<diddledan> daftykins: idevices do just work. they just donât work the way you expect.
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> anyone on libreoffice5 able to do a test for me?
<SuperMatt> sure
<foobarry> ta
<SuperMatt> 5.1.2.2
<foobarry> document with text in it. unfocus selection by clikcing browser or something else. click back on LO5 doc and it selects a block of text
<SuperMatt> nope, nothing of the sort happening for me
<foobarry> thanks
<foobarry> 5.1.1.2
<SuperMatt> what os are you running? I can quickly spin up a vm
<foobarry> its ok, i will ask on elementary #channel
<SuperMatt> cool cool
<SuperMatt> right, who in here was keeping track of the number of jobs I've had? MooDoo?
<DJones> SuperMatt: Off the top of my head, 356
<SuperMatt> one of those numbers is correct, and another will be correct as of June 6th
<DJones> 5 & 6 then I guess
<SuperMatt> correct!
 * DJones stops hacking SuperMatt's computer
<daftykins> crikey!
<daftykins> hopefully this was your choice, SuperMatt!
<SuperMatt> yup
<DJones> Its always seemed like that for the people I speak to IRL that work in IT, they change jobs fairly regularly asprojects finish or change
<SuperMatt> that's how it goes
<SuperMatt> IT skills are always in demand, and because you learn so much on one job, it's easy to apply that to the next and get paid more for it
<DJones> Yep, although they're framed as permanent positions, in reality, they're project jobs
<SuperMatt> The next one feels like it could well be a little more permanent for me
<DJones> Good luck with it anywy
<SuperMatt> thanks
<daftykins> indeed, gl!
<davmor2> SuperMatt: pfff whippersnapper multiply it by 5 or 6 and you get closer to mine ;)  But then I was in manual jobs for a long long time.
<SuperMatt> I'm 31, that's an average of a new job every two years out of Uni... actually, that's not too bad
<foobarry> SuperMatt: you're leaving rackspace?
<foobarry> i did about 5 jobs by age 30. then 2 jobs since then.
<SuperMatt> foobarry: I left there 6 months ago
<SuperMatt> I'm leaving this one now too
<foobarry> :o
<foobarry> why did you leave rs?
<SuperMatt> because management kept adding too much work without adding staff
<foobarry> i had an email from their recruiter the other day
<foobarry> and your next job sucked?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I was a temp driving for years so I held 30-40 positions there, prior to that I did all sorts and often got made redundant last in first out policies and all that, and then finally I had 6 long term positions Driving for companies rather than temping and then canonical :)
<SuperMatt> foobarry: not that it sucked, I haven't really been engaged in it, and the next job is pretty damn difficult to refuse
<foobarry> google?
<foobarry> new google
<foobarry> uber driver?
<foobarry> facebook?
<foobarry> canonononononical?
<SuperMatt> Sky, actually
<foobarry> how's the journey?
<foobarry> aren't they far away?
<SuperMatt> An hour, so not too bad
<foobarry> ok. rs was in hayes though, which is a show stopper for most ppl
<foobarry> i know a guy at sky, his journey is 2hrs each way
<SuperMatt> yeah, it can be mental, but I can scoot round the side of london
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/islamscifi/status/727905700861587456
<diddledan> I like that
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> oh, itâs electionday
<diddledan> oops
<zmoylan-pi> vote early, vote often :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or vote late and tamper with the voting boxes later... :-P
<diddledan> lmao
<daftykins> i wondered why that curtain had a raspy-pi hanging from it, it's making sure the coast is clear whilst zmoylan-pi fiddles the numbers!
 * diddledan fiddles with zmoylan-piâs numbers.. oh myy
<zmoylan-pi> my number is pi... all the way down...
 * diddledan writes that down
<zmoylan-pi> fiddle with that and you break the universe
<diddledan> jeez, how long is this thing?!
<zmoylan-pi> there was an interesting story on how many digits nasa uses of pi for calculating orbits recently
<diddledan> tv series to watch: quantico.
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: they use all of them, no?
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think nasa would be sticklers for accuracy and so use a lot but nope... and the margin of error even with those few is tiny in a space the size of a solar system iirc
<daftykins> lemme catculate that - https://i.imgur.com/uwmIj3I.gifv
<diddledan> wow, that cat is a genius?!
<daftykins> ikr!
<diddledan> heâs like newton reincarnated!
<daftykins> mewton
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> well newton invented the cat flap so he prepared for his comeback :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> probably the biggest time saving device invented ever :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<diplo> Morning all
<brmbrmcar> hello
<knightwise> hey everyone :) how are you doing
<brobostigon> back pain, but ok, and you knightwise ?
<knightwise> doin ok :) Slow day at work today , so i'm gonna catch up on some email and stuff
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> might even do a dist upgrade on my 14.04 XPS
<knightwise> (feeling daring)
<brobostigon> lol.
<zmoylan-pi> windows 10 it is... :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: :)
<knightwise> well, its free up to june 10th
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> oooh, just managed to crash chrome in a new and interesting wa
<popey> *way
<popey> go to a site like youtube where you can upload files, click upload, get a file dialog, leave that there, looking at a file, without uploading. Open terminal, rename the file. chrome dies :)
<SuperMatt> interesting
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
 * knightwise has been asked for a speaking gig at a MAJOR multinational
<knightwise> no idea what to charge
<Laney> 9999999
<knightwise> yeah
<knightwise> something like that
<foobarry> "the going rate"
<brobostigon> charge them the equivulant of a months beer money, :)
<foobarry> which is zero for me :\
<foobarry> but jelly snakes/haribo money...
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> 3 unicorns...
<foobarry> 2 french hens
<zmoylan-pi> then they can haggle you down to 2 unicorns so everyone is happy
<bashrc> if it's MAJOR and they have the money then charge an arm and a leg
<zmoylan-pi> 4 hooves and a horn, it's your big chance :-P
<bashrc> although it depends on the situation. If MAJOR was microsoft then I wouldn't take their dirty dollars.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Beverage Day! ð  â
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTjC6rxHz8g
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm right though aren't I and also a great tune for setting the mood on a Friday too :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, I can't argue. âº
<foobarry> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.fsf.org
<foobarry> :(
<davmor2> foobarry: ooopsie
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> ready to dist-upgrade my os
<SuperMatt> gl
<knightwise> wof would you recommend a clean install ?
<SuperMatt> what are you upgrading from?
<SuperMatt> and did you upgrade that from something else?
<knightwise> nope
<knightwise> that was a clean install
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> dist upgrade dont work ?
<SuperMatt> do a do-release-upgrade
<knightwise> An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade.
<knightwise> This can be caused by:
<knightwise> * Upgrading to a pre-release version of Ubuntu
<knightwise> * Running the current pre-release version of Ubuntu
<knightwise> * Unofficial software packages not provided by Ubuntu
<knightwise> could it be that Dell shipped a non final release of 14.04 on this machine ?
<MartijnVdS> either that, or they (or you :P) didn't keep it "clean" :)
<knightwise> define clean ?
<SuperMatt> do apt update and apt upgrade, see what happens
<knightwise> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16258085/
<SuperMatt> maybe disable the steam repo for now, and try again
<SuperMatt> if this is the first time you've seen that error, you probably haven't kept your machine up to date at all
<foobarry> or the i386 one at least
<knightwise> ok , so how do i throw out the steam repo ? i've removed the lists in /var/lib/apt/lists
<foobarry> ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<foobarry> edit the steam one and put a # in front of the steam repo line(s)
<foobarry> apt-get update again
<knightwise> looks like that fixed it
<knightwise> stupid steam :)
<knightwise> nope ,
<knightwise> another error
<knightwise> W: There is no public key available for the following key IDs:
<knightwise> 1397BC53640DB551
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/766883/there-is-no-public-key-available-for-the-following-key-ids-1397bc53640db551-goo
<foobarry> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 1397BC53640DB551
<knightwise> thanx foobarry
<knightwise> no error
<knightwise> but no upgrade either
<knightwise> or do i need to take it to 15.10 furst ?
<knightwise> its runnig :)
<SuperMatt> well done
<SuperMatt> what version were you on before?
<knightwise> 14.04
<knightwise> upgrading now
<SuperMatt> 14.04 to 16.04 does not need an intermediate update
<knightwise> yep did that one
<knightwise> as display manager , what should i pic (i'm running mate)
<knightwise> gdm or lightdm ?
<SuperMatt> what did you have before?
<SuperMatt> because it makes little difference
<knightwise> i'm not sure
<knightwise> the default is lightdm
<SuperMatt> was the login box on the left or the centre?
<knightwise> center
<diddledan> http://www.theverge.com/tldr/2016/5/4/11593084/dont-get-busted-copying-code-from-stack-overflow
<foobarry> yeah lol
<foobarry> even typoe'd it
<diddledan> foobarry: did you run the code at the bottom?
<foobarry> no
<diddledan> doo eet
<foobarry> its a rick roll
<diddledan> :-)
<foobarry> i let other follish people do things first
<diddledan> I read the code and verified it wasnât gonna blow-up my pc
<foobarry> wasn't even tempted
<diddledan> itâs actually pretty impressive
<diddledan> thereâs spoilers, but starwars the force awakens as emoji: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adgnlbRWo_Y
<knightwise> anyone played with pip and 16.04 ? i'm getting the following errors : The 'pip==1.5.4' distribution was not found and is required by the application
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: did you install the python3-pip package?
<knightwise> yep , sais its the newest version$
<MartijnVdS> maybe the thing you have wants python 2?
<diddledan> joy: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/04/uk_government_10_year_jail_copyright/
<zmoylan-pi> that'll get the private jails business a real kickstart
<knightwise> i have python 2.7 installed
<knightwise> the error i'm getting is that there are files missing in python 2.3
<diddledan> this is good news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/06/29_years_of_data_shows_no_mobile_phone_brain_cancer_link/
<diddledan> also, probably doesnât roast your nuts, either
<zmoylan-pi> unless you're smuggling a *LOT* of phones into prison...
<diddledan> not for internal use
<diddledan> or âfor external use only"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.amazon.com/B001V9SVMI
<diddledan> 404
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001V9SVMI
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-07
<knightwise> morning peeps
<knightwise> just did a fresh reinstall of my xps13
<brmbrmcar> hello
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<brmbrmcar> Morning.
<brobostigon> morning brmbrmcar
<brmbrmcar> hi
<knightwise> there,
<knightwise> ubuntu reinstall complete (agai)
<daftykins> heh
<knightwise> i had installed hibernate
<daftykins> do you have to run yours set to AHCI in the BIOS?
<knightwise> I'm not sure daftykins
<knightwise> but after I had installed hibernate the system wouldnt boot up anymore
<daftykins> the default on my 9350 was RAID which stops a Loonix seeing the NVMe SSD
<knightwise> your xps ?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> i run Windows though :>
<daftykins> it would probably still show up as NVMe with RAID turned off to be honest, i just haven't tried since i don't run a Linux distro on here
<knightwise> but we only have one drive ,
<knightwise> why set RAID in the bios ?
<daftykins> intel RST.
<daftykins> it's the controller mode being sought, not necessarily a disk configuration
<knightwise> I will check my bios , but i think its set to AHCI
<daftykins> i don't think you would have been able to install otherwise, yeah
<daftykins> in my new desktop, my M.2 NVMe SSD shows up as an nvme device from sudo lsblk
<ali1234> be careful if you ever do boot linux on a system that is using RST
<daftykins> haven't seen any issues
<ali1234> i have seen the SSD and HDD partitions get out of sync, causing no end of weird problems
<daftykins> ah, horrible disk combos
<ali1234> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Response_Technology that thing
<ali1234> i though it was the same as RST but apparently it is just a small part of it
<daftykins> yeah, annoyingly confusing names
<penguin42> I do love it when I don't miss a train because the train is late
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> hrmm another suspicious IP is hitting my friends web server and making it fall over
<daftykins> i can't even think there's anything to be done about that
<daftykins> 185.130.5.48 this time
<daftykins> sounds like apache's mod_evasive is a good plan
<guamaboy> So... does anyone know where i an find some free Netflix accounts
<daftykins> no - and that's not appropriate to ask on freenode
<daftykins> so best be on your way.
 * zmoylan-pi puts a few organs up for sale on ebay...
<daftykins> :)
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: big churchy ones?
<zmoylan-pi> nah, they cost a fortune in shipping, mouth organs, harmonicas.  saves on postage...
<penguin42> that does sound mildly disgusting
#ubuntu-uk 2016-05-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<daftykins> \o
<penguin42> hey daftykins
<daftykins> happy Sunday :)
 * penguin42 yaaaawwwwwnnnns
<daftykins> Liberation day tomorrow, another day off for island folk
<penguin42> you seem to have chosen to have a national holiday on a potentially warm day
<zmoylan-pi> the gods of bank holidays will not be pleased...
<tpe> Jersey or Guernsey?
<daftykins> well both got liberated on the same day ;)
<daftykins> as did the others!
<tpe> I only know Jersey, my other half is from there and we regularly visit her parents. Only thing I've seen of Guernsey is the airport thanks to indirect flights. ;)
<daftykins> ah you're missing out, Jersey is a boring 'little England' for the most part to my mind
<MartijnVdS> with better weather though :P
<MartijnVdS> in my experience
<tpe> And a playground for the rich. Seeing the rich/poor divide in such a small place is interesting.
<daftykins> eh it's not really like that
<zmoylan-pi> where you have water you have yachts...
<daftykins> actually i suppose it is
<daftykins> it was quite amusing hearing Jeremy Vine on BBC Radio 2 getting very close to trying to claim that all channel islanders are rich and tax avoiding a bit ago, before our treasury minister called in and told him where to stick his rubbish
<tpe> Been meaning to visit Guernsey though, should spend a day or two there next time we're over.
<daftykins> :D definitely warming up now!
<daftykins> the killer humidity is what does it though, rolling around 80% right now i think
<daftykins> t-shirt and shorts weather at only 14 deg C
<tpe> 22 here and sticky as hell.
<tpe> 22 is nothing without the damn humidity!
<zmoylan-pi> 16c and cloudy with a nice wind... http://wttr.in/dublin
<tpe> Though I probably shouldn't have had that tea.
<daftykins> wow it's like a browser and a ceefax/teletext machine had a baby!
<zmoylan-pi> i know, i think that's why i like it...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> all its missing is thee blinking sun in the corner...
<penguin42> wow - I like it!
<zmoylan-pi> just replace the city with your own...
<daftykins> yep how'd i know picking me would error...
<daftykins> yay Guernsey works
<zmoylan-pi> it'd be a rare seaside town without a weather station
<daftykins> they do ignore our capital it seems and have one up the airport instead
 * tpe puts his town in, gets some place in Australia
<zmoylan-pi> flippin colonies... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> what town name?
<tpe> Wivenhoe
<zmoylan-pi> there's about 13 towns called dublin mostly in usa...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> odd they all claim roots from elsewhere so strongly ;)
<zmoylan-pi> http://wttr.in/wivenhoe-uk
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: There are loads of Manchester's
<zmoylan-pi> names do get recycled a fair bit
<tpe> Seems the noon temp is more accurate than the top summary. Doesn't really feel 25 yet.
<daftykins> i'd visit the Guernsey in the US but it's in the middle of nowhere, so quite the spend just to take a snap with a sign :>
<zmoylan-pi> rent a telepresence bot and have it take a selfie with your pic on it's screen... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the other minimalist weather page i like is... http://isitraining.in/Dublin
<zmoylan-pi> perfect for a rasp pi project...
<penguin42> haha
<brobostigon> how do i print the encryption details of a luks encrypted disk?
 * penguin42 isn't sure but I'd ask cryptsetup
<penguin42> brobostigon: cryptsetup luksDump ?
<brobostigon> let me try that.
<brobostigon> penguin42: cryptsetup status <name> seemed to do the job.
<penguin42> ah cool
<daftykins> i found - http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/101347/how-can-i-extract-the-hash-value-of-a-luks-device
<knightwise> afternoon everyone
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> have a wee issue with the new 1.04 install
<knightwise> 16.04
<brobostigon> afternoon knightwise
<knightwise> when i power down the laptop it doenst shut down :( just keeps running the ubuntu animation
<knightwise> afternoon brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> do you run "poweroff" or "halt"?
<penguin42> knightwise: How long for ? I've seen it take a minute or two
<penguin42> knightwise: I think it's a stuck process that something else is waiting for it to shutdown but I've not figured it out yet
<knightwise> indefinately , it doesnt shut down unless i press the powerbutton
<knightwise> $
<knightwise> used to work fine on 14.04
<penguin42> oh interesting, mine normally does it after a minute or two
<knightwise> but thats way too long for a laptop .. no ?
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> knightwise: I'm assuming it's some screwup either in a process shutting down or the dependencies between shutdown
<knightwise> hmmm.. gonna look into it
<penguin42> knightwise: I suspect turning on alt-sysrq, and dropping to a text console and using the alt-sysrq to get a backtrace of remaining processes at that point might help; but yes it's very annoying
<daftykins> quite the basic function to go wrong :(
<penguin42> it's annoying when you want to unplug and go
<knightwise> added a line to the grub config to force ACPI off , see if that works
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> that's drastic
<daftykins> surely that'll trash any and all power management?
<knightwise> fixed it !
<knightwise> well , it powers it down
<knightwise> I don't have a lot in terms of power manangement (hibernate doesnt work in ubuntu, remember)
<daftykins> i get the feeling you'd wave goodbye to battery with no ACPI?
<knightwise> else
<knightwise> else
<knightwise> sorry
<daftykins> if if!
<daftykins> :>
<knightwise> quiet splash acpi=force
<knightwise> so with acpi=force I turn it off or force it on ,
<penguin42> knightwise: Hmm interesting - I think there are two or three different ways of the kernel telling the host to power down - it might be possible to just flip between them
<MartijnVdS> which kernel are you using?
<MartijnVdS> the 9350 needs a *very* recent one (4.5 or the 4.6 RCs)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: 4.4.0.22
<sebsebsebb> at last in here on this tablet. convergence
<popey> :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's irc, i can get here with a dumbphone and a java app :-)
<sebsebsebb> popey, still messing around the O2G USB keyboard way a bit, even though had bluetooth keyboards a while now. ill look at those properly tommorow or something
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, he h yeah, but
 * popey wonders when his bq m10 will arrive
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, in the case of Ubuntu devices got to use the IRC client via phsyicall keyboards for now
<sebsebsebb> popey when did you order? you went for the FHD black one didn't you as well?
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, that can take a bit of time to set up, plus using a UK USB keyboard but in a us layout on the software hmm
<sebsebsebb> means some stuff is differnet
<popey> yes
<popey> last week
<sebsebsebb> popey  ok so soon I guess then, and you orderd the FHD black one?
<sebsebsebb> popey he h I wonder who actually has the HD white one, other than me, and some guy who did a video review on omgubuntu. I know most fan boys from that site went for the black FHD and that was that.  Ill probably buy a FHD at a much later date as well, but this white one is more than fine for now :)
<zmoylan-pi> are you not going to put the tablet in a case? is colour therefore not irrelevent?
<sebsebsebb> popey, also we need you to make more apps for Ubuntu touch h eh,  not web apps real apps. I have used one or two or so at least that you made. stallboard for example
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, I got a black case with the tablet
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, but when gonig to use it, got to take out of the case
<daftykins> o0
<sebsebsebb> daftykins moo
<daftykins> time to cut some holes :)
<zmoylan-pi> depends on the type of case...
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, well with the bq one it's what I said
<zmoylan-pi> i like the flip cover cases for tablets
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, but having it in a tablet case that don't have to take it out to use could be more usful, if ti dops hmm
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi, also the two m10's isn't just colour, but some what I assuem are quite minor hardware differences to.  one is HD and the other is FHD, and the FHD has a bit of a better camera to, and I think that's it really or about
<zmoylan-pi> which when closed goes inside a slip cover... i take protection of hardware very seriously...
<sebsebsebb> z
<sebsebsebb> m
<sebsebsebb> z
<sebsebsebb> m
<sebsebsebb> i
<sebsebsebb> I broke a ipad air quite badly when the dogs distracted and
<sebsebsebb> it fell on a tittled floor
<sebsebsebb> dont want a similar fate for any of my other tablets :)
<zmoylan-pi> i once dropped a brand new psion 5 within a month of getting it... have been super paranoid ever since
<sebsebsebb> that was without any cover on or anything as well
<sebsebsebb> a guy from my LUG did a fix up job, but side has come off, he needs to look at that again
<sebsebsebb> sie
<sebsebsebb> d
<sebsebsebb> side fell off when dr opped again since dog, but not by much etc.  but I supopsue it's just glue so
<sebsebsebb> oh what happended to the psion
<sebsebsebb> 5
<sebsebsebb> ?
<sebsebsebb> I
<sebsebsebb> bro
<sebsebsebb> I b
<sebsebsebb> ro
<popey> uhm
<sebsebsebb> u
<popey> you're getting a bit spammy :)
<sebsebsebb>   uh xchat gnome sucks like this
<daftykins> i think it's your fingers, not the client ;)
<sebsebsebb> yeah its since I am trying to use the tablet like thsi for IRC, which isn't
<sebsebsebb> go
<sebsebsebb> i
<sebsebsebb> going
<sebsebsebb> as
<sebsebsebb> t
<sebsebsebb> ha
<zmoylan-pi> i had it in really nice bag safe from elements but managed to pull it out and slip out of my hands and hit tiled floor in a supermarket killing the screen. replaced under warranty for small fee.
<sebsebsebb> w
<sebsebsebb> h
<sebsebsebb> uh
<daftykins> sebsebsebb: ok you're really annoying me now
<daftykins> ignore o'clock!
<zmoylan-pi> shop that did the replacement told me he could have earned a good chunk of money selling it as the demand at the time was insane and accountants/architects were offering twice the price for them
<sebsebsebb> ok using xhat gnome the convergence way via o2g  usb for computer keyboard didn't go so well
<sebsebsebb> back but trying web chat now
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi  nice story :d
<daftykins> perhaps hexchat is a bit wiser than xchat
<sebsebsebb> I have broken two lap tops hardware wise in my life so far, and neither of them were mine
<sebsebsebb> the first one I got at school, and it wsn't under a insurance to I think, so they weren't happy
<sebsebsebb> the second one was a Sony Vaio and those are meant to be so great,  and over 10 years ago now.  but ended up doing whatgever to it and then one day it refused to power on so
<sebsebsebb> I thought daftykins had put me on ignore I guess not then
<daftykins> thankfully you stopped by then
<sebsebsebb> I think it was to do with the client as well, trying to do it via convergence
<sebsebsebb> web chat is working great right now in the Firefox on the tablet
 * sebsebsebb waits for popey to have a tablet and then potentialy f lood irc trying out the IRC client :d
<popey> might have a look at packaging hexchat for it
<sebsebsebb> I have heard of hexchat, but not used it
<sebsebsebb> or I think I have heard of hexchat
<sebsebsebb> my preferd IRC client so far has been konversation, but right can't just have that on the tablet I guess, since it's a KDE  program
<popey> it's possible
<popey> we can have a go
<zmoylan-pi> irssi on rasp pi, jmirc on dumbphone, quassel when i used windows, mac and linux desktop under one roof as it looked the same on all of them...
<sebsebsebb> popey: seems stuck with the default stuff still, unless using libertine?
<sebsebsebb> apparnatly no need anymore to set the whole file system to read write mode so
<daftykins> nothing stopping you from installing KDE libs surely, just a bit wasteful
<sebsebsebb> daftykins: can't just apt-get whatever is wanted or pretty much, well not juset yet
<daftykins> can you not?
<daftykins> i have no idea what setup you're speaking of so *shrug*
<sebsebsebb> daftykins: on the tablet I meant
<sebsebsebb> Ubuntu Touch
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> hadn't really considered that it isn't a normal system in a way :>
<sebsebsebb> seems there's a way to like change the thing that has the default apps though, a bit of hacking hmm
<sebsebsebb> daftykins: it's not a normal ssytem exactly
<daftykins> yeah i got that
<daftykins> wow that Canada fire, someone caught their house burning up over a security system on their phone it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTlGFsP4JeQ
<zmoylan-pi> isn't technology wonderful...
<daftykins> it's ok the smoke alarm is going!
<daftykins> wow i just noticed the guy left his expensive DJI drone in the lower right
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't fit in his go bag probably
<sebsebseb> ok back
<sebsebseb> kiwi irc this tie to, and rotatin lock on tablet to that's better
<sebsebseb> daftykins: So yeah it's not a normal system ,but that's what makes it interseting, will use a lot of stuff from desktop ubuntu though really I guess
<sebsebsebm10whit> oh
<sebThreeM10white> nearly
<sebsebsebM10whit> too long
<sebthreeM10white> ok
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: good news! http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/5/8/11635442/raspberry-pi-tube-amp
<zmoylan-pi> i saw that a few weeks back.  proper tubes in an amp.  so it should take a good 30 seconds to warm up... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it'd remind me of the radio my parents got as a wedding present.  a beautiful philips tube radio. wonderful reception
<daftykins> how'd it sound? :)
<zmoylan-pi> people often talk about the warmth of the audio of tube radios and they're right
<zmoylan-pi> i do regret not taking the radio when i left home but it was huge
<zmoylan-pi> mind there was an article yesterday about someone blowing their own valves... home made valves...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> a few 1000 of those and you could make a word processor... :-P
<daftykins> but can it run Linux? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> then you'll need 1337 valves of course
<zmoylan-pi> but no systemd!! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> that would require punch cards...
<zmoylan-pi> i always feel like punching something when systemd comes up...
<sebsebseb> popey thats better using one of my bluetooth keyboards now
<daftykins> this is neat, my new motherboard has a headphone amp i believe... so the headphone jack on my case sounds quite good straight from the onboard audio!
<daftykins> auto switching :O
<popey> thats novel
<popey> never seen a mobo with a preamp
<zmoylan-pi> either that or it's an amp with serious cpu power... :-P
<daftykins> 300 ohm headphone amp
<daftykins> hrmm
<zmoylan-pi> great you can listen to dave listers ohm song... :-D
<daftykins> bet it wouldn't work under Linux
 * daftykins whistles
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a tube radio...
<popey> BED TIME FOR ALL
<daftykins> aww does that mean you're shuffling us out on the door step?
 * daftykins hopes it's not raining
<sebsebseb> backlit keyboard
<daftykins> i keep taking my new laptop up to bed and forgetting it has one, then suddenly going "AAAAH! *jab* huzzah i can see keys!"
<daftykins> then the cat looks at me funny
<sebsebseb> your new keyboard oh?
<sebsebseb> your new keyboard oh>?
<daftykins> new laptop
<daftykins> has a backlit keyboard
<sebsebseb> oh right I see
<sebsebseb> well I am finally trying out first time with ubuntu tablet this backlit bluetooth 3.0 keyboard i got the other week
<sebsebseb> how's yours in the dark? this one with it's 7 or so colours is okish I guess, but this is the first time I am using one as well
<daftykins> just white on the Dell XPS13, with two different levels of brightness
<sebsebseb> oh you only get the colour white
<sebsebseb> I got 7 or so colours yep, and two levels of brightness
<sebsebseb> I guess the person who said here in IRC the other weekk that they are a bit of a gimmick is rigght really
<sebsebseb> but at least can see what's on the keys in the dark now, but not in a particulary nice way\
<daftykins> yeah i was almost thinking it's not so stupid after all on all these desktop keyboards now, as my officey room here isn't very well lit
<sebsebseb> yeah can be in a room with not much light
<sebsebseb> or you could be watching tv in the dark otherwise
<sebsebseb> I think I am going to get bored  quite quickly of the 7 colours already am really, but it isn't really a toy anyway
<sebsebseb> and oh typing to you is working better like this,  than via the normal usb keyboard via a o2g device
<sebsebseb> still a bit slow to respond to my typing speed I think really, or is it hmm
<sebsebseb> not sure what some stuff is on the keyboard, but can also use it to adjust the tablet speaker volume so that's good :).  and oh this thing has nice speakers :) been listening to libre.fm :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ikonia> I dont' suppose any of you have a strong recommendation for a company that makes high quality custom networking cables
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a nice WiFi IP camera for indoor use, monitoring kids?
<zmoylan-pi> won't average kids be able to disable the camera 'accidently'?
<Azelphur> sure, but mum would of course see that :)
<zmoylan-pi> but mammy, i didn't know my emp device would disrupt the camera... :-P
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> but yea, just after something nice, 1080p, indoor use, night vision would be nice.
<daftykins> Azelphur: my mum just got some little foscam toy for seeing my nephew when he starts to stay over soon, i got roped into setting it up the other day - just has an accompanying smartphone app i saw so far
<penguin42> you'd think there would be easy ways of converting old phones
<Azelphur> daftykins: got a link to it? is it any good?
<daftykins> i'm sure there would, but then my mum tends to just buy things on amazon before asking
<daftykins> well naturally anything wifi only is going to suck because wifi sucks but it seems servicable so far
<penguin42> note I haven't seen any of the consumer camera things that are in any way secure
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Foscam-C1-Wireless-Viewing-Camera/dp/B00T7NX6SY/
<daftykins> i reckon it's that thing, at least he pic matches
<Azelphur> daftykins: fun :)
<daftykins> *the
<daftykins> no idea if you could do anything with it directly, didn't really have much time with it
<Azelphur> yea, I'm not intending on doing anything fancy with it
<daftykins> seems enough for the old girl to monitor the wee one remotely anywho
<Azelphur> indeed, that's exactly the use case here
<daftykins> ^_^
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-02
<MooDoo> howdy
<SuperMatt> orning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hows everyone doing today?:
<brobostigon> back to work after holiday, oh well.
<MooDoo> yup
<SuperMatt> doing well, thank you
<SuperMatt> really getting in to writing in go
<davmor2> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Baby Day! ð¶ ð¼
<zmoylan-pi> dammit, i forgot to get jelly babies yesterday...
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
<foobarry> happy encode to mp3 day
<foobarry> https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/prod/audiocodec/audiocodecs/mp3.html
<zmoylan-pi> wav's day will come back :-P
<diddledan> microsoft have a thing in 25 minutes - educationally focused maybe
<diddledan> http://event.microsoft.com/MayEvent/
<zmoylan-pi> prediction:they'll have some new exciting non netbooky name... :-)
<diddledan> windows cloud
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be their version of the chromebook using azuer as the backend
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be dearer, worse and wonky...
<diddledan> "Windows 10 S"
<diddledan> "has a new desktop image"
<diddledan> that's a headline feature right there
<diddledan> only runs windows apps from the store
<SuperMatt> I'm not surprised, it's not different from google play, or the apple app store
<zmoylan-pi> well you can sideload apps on android
<zmoylan-pi> the day google remove that i'll chuck all my android devices through their windows one by one... could take ages if i find all my ancient devices.... :-P
<SuperEngineer> is it time to say "zzzzz" or "ssshhhhh" yet? [or maybe just a teensy weensy quick BOO!] ;-)
<diddledan> "codebuilder for minecraft education edition"
<foobarry> minecraft for minecraft, minecraft edition
<SuperEngineer> Mnecraft for train spotters.... boring edition
<diddledan> what really annoys me about the various minecraft versions is they don't interoperate
<diddledan> and like the windows 10 edition doesn't support the same "mods" as the java version
<diddledan> was there a split or did irccloud go down?
<Azelphur> I got disconnected - not using IRCCloud
<diddledan> surface laptop has 14.5 hours battery life?!
<foobarry> is it ARM?
<diddledan> nope, i5 or i7
<foobarry> sounds like lies
<diddledan> lighter and thinner than any mba or mbp. 50% faster than the air and "faster than the mbp"
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds really cheap and accessible to school kids...
<diddledan> $999
<zmoylan-pi> that'll kill the chromebook market... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> or if it runs linux well really boost the linux market :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ah cheap ones for $189... https://liliputing.com/2017/05/microsoft-surface-laptop-designed-students.html
<zmoylan-pi> but they all seem capable of been upgraded to full win10 so that suggests they'll run linux despite ms efforts to lock them down...
<zmoylan-pi> so might be a better option for those who want netbooks than trying linux options on a chromebook
<diddledan> 189 isn't for the ms device
<diddledan> 189 is third-party crud
<zmoylan-pi> that's more my end of the market... :-)
<diddledan> the upgrade to win10pro is free
<diddledan> modems in 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17zfz017s9A
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder what % still use modems these days in areas without broadband....
 * zmoylan-pi is tring to remember if the opera he is using is using server side compression to speed up things...
<zmoylan-pi> ah the icon on the toolbar is turned off :-)
<daftykins> i know a guy in the US on satellite, but also know a guy up in Michigan whose in-laws are on dial-up heh
<daftykins> perpetually non-updated software
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, when my brother was on dial up out in the sticks i had to replace his windows pc with a mac as he never let it download 4mb of av updates twice a week for some reason...
<zmoylan-pi> the mac needed fewer updates and i could throw them on a cd once a month
<zmoylan-pi> then he rang his phone company once a month till they got annoyed and gave him broadband...
<daftykins> knowingly supplying a mac, nasty! :)
<zmoylan-pi> at the time they were the best option... i'd happily install windows if it were the best option and if that level of crazy ever happens i'll let you know... :-D
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> just taken my four legged friend to a local cattery today, her new digs whilst the insurance work goes on
<zmoylan-pi> and when she gets back a great threat for when she misbehaves in future... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> do you want to go back to moggy prison? do you? :-)
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> getting to be about time to power everything off here, electrician comes tomorrow i think
<zmoylan-pi> will you be able to visit her while she is there? or is that discouraged?
<daftykins> sounds like you can if you call and arrange ahead of time
<daftykins> assuming she doesn't cause any trouble in the showers and the warden permits it...
<zmoylan-pi> had a mate who's cat escaped from cattery while he was on holiday.  she climbed a smooth 12foot wall and crawled out a tiny hole as best as they could work out
<daftykins> dedication!
<zmoylan-pi> found a few months later living on a farm, wiping out rats to a farmers delight...
<daftykins> bet the farmer didn't want to let her go back!
<zmoylan-pi> he was disappointed to let her go but wanted what was best for her
<zmoylan-pi> she would line up rat bodies in front of the barn... he was impressed with her neatness...
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> time to go, catch y'soon \o
<diddledan> what daftykins doesn't know is I've been planning to raid his home to steal all the things while he's away
<daftykins> :O
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> take care o/
<daftykins> i'm glad i've moved it all into the office locked by another key ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that's cheating!
<daftykins> ooh yes, gotta cheat when builders are about
 * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan a copy i made of the key...
<daftykins> drat!
<zmoylan-pi> right time for a late walk...
<diddledan> tis dinner time!
<diddledan> popey: thankyou for your blog post on getting a unity-like layout for gnome - I have followed most of your suggestions, but found I preferred a larger icon size for the dock (I can't remember whether I made any other tweaks)
<diddledan> my duck is somewhat aromatic.
<diddledan> and crispy
<diddledan> and v. tasty
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-03
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy
<zmoylan-pi> howdy? dems fightin' words!! :-P
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'm happy with howdy it means he isn't copying me :D
<JamesTait> Almost forgot: good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy World Press Freedom Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> we can't talk about that here :-)
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: "World, UK excepted, Press Freedom Day", no?
<TwistedLucidity> And Russia
<TwistedLucidity> And most of the Middle East
<TwistedLucidity> And NorK
<TwistedLucidity> And....
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q
<zmoylan-pi> NorK has the freest press... they drop them from great height if they displease the fat one...
<davmor2> JamesTait: or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uEIvzbmwG0 which I think was directed at the press and paps
<davmor2> NorK has the best and freest everything Kim said so
<foobarry> topcashback getting on my tits :(
<foobarry> they never notify if payment is declined
<davmor2>  "Amazon.co.uk" <account-update@amzon.co.uk>  Hmmm this looks legit I best click on the link in the email immediately
<zmoylan-pi> only has to work on <.001% to be profitable
 * diddledan clicks davmor2's link
<diddledan> davmor2: re: norks having the best things.. Kim also has normal hands!
<diddledan> davmor2: and he also has many words. the best words. and bombs
<davmor2> diddledan: trumps are small though Kim said so
<davmor2> diddledan: Trump is just a skin suit that Kim wears, he said so, so it must be true
<diddledan> and that's one of the more sensible explanations of the weirdness
<davmor2> diddledan: you're welcome :D
<diddledan> when it makes more sense that the us president is a foreign dictator who usurped the election with help from russia you know the world has gone bizzaro
<diplo> Hey guys, just after some thoughts/advice please.. We host a few of our customers at our headoffice on VM's, we create a vlan for that said customer on our internal network and they VPN into us ( router to router ) so they can print from our system to their sites.
<diplo> We are looking at maybe moving this away from us being a single point of failure to external hosting somewhere
<diplo> Only issue I can see is with the VPN for the printing.. what would you guys suggest, hosting a VPN on the same server and VPN in direct or seeing if someone else offers a service like this
<diddledan> mozilla are taking a turn at symantec-bashing : https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/03/mozilla_backs_google_in_symantec_cert_dispute/
<diddledan> diplo: that sounds like an esoteric setup. I'm unsure about vpn-as-a-service that behaves in the way you desire
<diddledan> can you put your vpn on a load balancer? (I don't know how that would work, just a thought though) in which case could you use amazon ELB?
<diddledan> combine amazon elb with route56
<diplo> Sorry got stuck on the phone, will take a look at that now.
<diplo> See I don't really need it load balance, I basically need lots of sites to connect to one application as if they're on local network, I may just setup a droplet and get what I have in my head and see if I can make it work, I'm probably explaining it badly :P
<diplo> Oooh amazon VPC may do it
<diddledan> I'd roll my own vpn to back onto a vpc like you're doing currently, so that you're not hit by the costs of running amazon's vpn for each customer
<diplo> yeah I just checked that too, lots of things to work out.. will need lots more info from sites on how much bandwidth we transfer etc, may set up snmp on the router and monitor it
<Azelphur> well, that was interesting
<Azelphur> TSB: To open an account, you need to come in branch, show us your passport and a bill, and oh no, that thing you brought from Eon that says "Your bill is increasing" and shows how much you're paying and will be paying isn't a bill, so we can't accept that.
<Azelphur> NatWest: Apply online, enter your passport number and your other debit card info, ok you're registered here's your account and sort code
<Azelphur> score one for NatWest XD
<foobarry> could someone with RH access tell me the answer to this pls? https://access.redhat.com/solutions/313693
<foobarry> can't find the guy with the login here
<zmoylan-pi> these are all new things to stop terrorists creating accounts to fund terrorism... we have the same silliness in ireland... they've gotten stricter recently were they are now contacting people with old accounts to provide passports or driving licences to match against accounts
<zmoylan-pi> it's funnier when you realise that till the 80s the banks were helping customers create fake accounts to avoid the tax man... so they are now trying to get customers with old accounts to bring in driving licences or passports to identify them...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Star Wars Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bzWSJG93P8
<JamesTait> davmor2, if that's not Theresa May promising strong and stable government while the Imperial March plays in the background, you've failed me.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I failed I just went with the imperial march
 * JamesTait sacks davmor2 
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtJAGYTUXVE I think it is funnier still
<zmoylan-pi> capturing the mood of he moment with the imperial march...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: I'm in QA Of course I come from the dark side
<JamesTait> davmor2, OK, you're on probation. ð
<davmor2> woohoo!
<TwistedLucidity> QA - Quite Annoying
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: we are English QA it is Quintessentially Annoying
<foobarry> has anyone got a fidget spinner?
<brobostigon> we have some at work, yes, :), we sell them.
<foobarry> i love fidget toys, i'ld like to get one
<foobarry> probably a oilyrainbow smooth metal one
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> haven't tried one
<brobostigon> ok,
<foobarry> i also notice fidget cubes are cheap
<brobostigon> yep, we sell those too.
<foobarry> are they any good?
<brobostigon> they are fairly simple and uncomplicated, good to keep children amused.
<davmor2> foobarry: you can print one http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2007417
<TwistedLucidity> IRC is my fidget
<foobarry> which is "better", cube or spinner?
<brobostigon> the more popular seems to be the former.
<brobostigon> i mean the latter, sorry.
<brobostigon> the spinner
<foobarry> plastic or metal?
<brobostigon> the ones we have are a combination of both.
<foobarry> ok thanks
<brobostigon> the gyros are metal, but the main body of it is plastic.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nohQReM7BpI this is impressive :)
<JamesTait> Connagh has a fidget spinner with ceramic bearings. Callum's just ordered one.
<JamesTait> We had Connagh's parents' evening last week, and one of his teachers said they're quite popular now and she prefers him having that to the magnetic bearings he used to fidget with before because it's less distracting for the other kids.
<JamesTait> davmor2, that is pretty good. ð
<foobarry> JamesTait: is he ASD?
<JamesTait> Not that we're aware of.
<foobarry> or just finds they help for work
<foobarry> my whole desk is a fidget paradise
<JamesTait> It was his ASD friend who introduced him to them though.
<davmor2> Wow StarWars is 40 years old this year man now I feel old
<JamesTait> davmor2, you *are* old.
<davmor2> JamesTait: :P
<foobarry> i went to see empire strikes back at cinema
<popey> foobarry: yeah, my son has a fidget spinner, as do most of the kids in his class
<zmoylan-pi> in my day we had casio game watches... :-)
<Laney> they sound fun
<Laney> I had a powerball a few years ago, was also good
<foobarry> i have one of those
<brobostigon> one of the benefits of working in a toy shop, :)
<foobarry> made my hand sore though
<foobarry> chafing
<Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dclMb2arY
<Laney> :D
<zmoylan-pi> the casio game watches never caught on for some reason... :-) http://s728.photobucket.com/user/super_hectorus/media/sella.jpg.html
<foobarry> "Canonical's design team wanted to improve was the design sign off process whilst increasing visibility for developers of which design was the final one among numerous iterations and inconsistent labelling of files and folders. Here is the process they developed."
<foobarry> verbatim from ubuntu official facebook post.
<foobarry> minus the proof reading
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: this had issues too which was a shame cause it was a pretty awesome watch http://kennywithers.com/featured-online-marketing-articles/the-seiko-wrist-computer-1984/
<zmoylan-pi> i remember reading about that... i never saw one in the wild though...
<davmor2> had one but they got recalled so when I took mine back to the shop because it was playing up they just took it away and gave me a refund
<davmor2> part of the reason I stuck with analogue watches from then on in :D
<zmoylan-pi> my boss had the timex with the built in badcode scanner that read pim info from crt screens... pity they went away...
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Android does that via the phone's camera
<zmoylan-pi> i don't let android devices near my contacts or pim info
<TwistedLucidity> What's odd is, not all Android phones can generate the QR codes from a contact. Strange.
<TwistedLucidity> Mine gets sent to my owncloud server. AFAIK it does not hit Google, except inadvertently
<brainrangers> Evenin peepz
 * brobostigon is back from work.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> Today is going to be another lazy day
<brobostigon> morning.
 * brobostigon wont be lazy, he has work this afternoon.
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Revenge of the Fifth! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2oMkN3Sfiw
<davmor2> JamesTait: also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtqfnp4sWhU
<MooDoo> howdy
<davmor2> MooDoo: how do owld chap?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah crackin thanks, ready for the weekend, you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: oh hell yes I have been all day :)
<davmor2> worked over last night as I have to take wifey off to the hospital before we can go off to the Caravan this week
 * Laney is watching http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/electionresults/2017 fill in
<davmor2> Laney: sometimes I forget you are a sad lonely muppet and then you come out with things like that ;)
<davmor2> Laney: It could be worse of course you could be in the room counting them instead :D
<Laney> I BITE MY THUMB AT YOU SIR
 * davmor2 awaits the yelp of pain from Laney's direction
<davmor2> Oh look at that Wolverhampton Labour no surprises there then
<davmor2> Laney: what's the population there that it takes so long?
<Laney> Don't think they started counting until today
<davmor2> Laney: that would do it then :D
<davmor2> lib dems and ukip are the biggest losers
<Laney> I reckon it's going blue
<Laney> http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/electionresults/2017/DetailedResults
<davmor2> yeah that is like the complete reversal of Wolverhampton :D
<davmor2> Laney: so what's happening in ashfield with all the independents?
<Laney> I wonder!
 * Laney doesn't actually live in the county
<Laney> must be some local campaign
<ali1234> i was just looking at that
<ali1234> it's the guy who was kicked out of the lib dems because their are pedo accusations against him
<Laney> zadrony or something
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> he also ran for PCC but lost
<Laney> I'm sure I've seen him running for other things too
<Laney> seems he found a way in
<MooDoo> Laney: yup all blue here, blue won in my village
<Laney> blueeeeeeeeeeeee
<ali1234> http://www.mynottinghamnews.com/sherwood-by-election-result/
<MooDoo> I'm watching it here http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/electionresults/2017
<ali1234> my link is for the one seat on the city council
<Laney> Yeah the city is a different story
<Laney> http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/media/1160/map1.jpg?width=465&height=581
<ali1234> which labour retained
<davmor2> I'm impressed with the turn out in heathtown, 14,000 here halve that roughly for people eligible to vote and about 2,500 actually did so that isn't too bad
<Laney> heh
<Laney> now the Mansfield Independent Forum got 4 seats
<Laney> maybe they'll get a ........ Coalition Of Chaos
<Laney> think the cons have to get all the remaining seats to get their majority now
<arsen> you're notts based Laney ?
<Laney> nottm, not notts
<Laney> but close enough to care
<arsen> christ, is that map current?
<arsen> very.. red
<Laney> lib dems got wiped out a few years ago
<arsen> my sis lives in sherwood
<arsen> i used to (live with her)
<Laney> nice, I'm NG5 too
<arsen> interesting, so notts is widely tory, but city is labour
<arsen> there was a time when notts was quite libdem :/ back when i voted there.
<Laney> there's the shire/city thing
<Laney> and some old mining towns and stuff
<Laney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_City_Council_election,_2011
<Laney> wasn't even much opposition back then tbh
<arsen> notts seems to have changed quite a bit since i lived there pre-09
<Laney> good pub scene going on now
<arsen> would be good to see it - i'm effectively a foreigner now so wouldnt know where to start :D
 * brobostigon is back from work.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> is there a defective update to 16.04 which broke libsecret? my desktop can't access my gnome keyring now either
<Nokaji> is there a page that details the naming convention for file/proggie versions? - e.g. the difference between - libcups2 (= 2.1.3-4) -AND- 2.1.3-4ubuntu0.2 (and what the 2.1.3-4 means)
<acheronuk> Nokaji: 2.1.3 is upstream version, -4 is the debian packaging revision and the ubuntu after that wil a number indicates that there are ubuntu specific changes to the packaging compared with debian
<Nokaji> Ah! - makes sense at last, thanks acheronuk  presumably the first digit in 2.1.3 takes priorityand higher is more recent, through to the last digit (3)?
<acheronuk> Nokaji: yes, 2 is the major version of the software. .1 is is a minor release in the version 2 series, and the .3 most likely indicates the 3rd micro or bugfix release of that
<Nokaji> Marvellous, thanks acheronuk ...
<Nokaji> If I'm getting an error report as follows " Depends: libcups2 (= 2.1.3-4) but 2.1.3-4ubuntu0.2 is to be installed" then (if I understand right) this is telling me the additionally used package has been upgraded however the main proggie I wish to install is unaware of the upgrade and expects the older version - does it is unfixable until 'they' fix it?
<Nokaji> thus it is unfixable* (unless I at least manually edit the pkgs)
<Nokaji> put another way - it is a developer issue - not a problem with my system
<acheronuk> Nokaji: that sounds familiar. lemme check something....
<Nokaji> It's cups I'm trying to reinstall, by the way
<Nokaji> ... or the whole cups/printing she-bang
<acheronuk> Nokaji: knew it sounded familiar. You are on Xenial I presume?
<Nokaji> 16.04
<acheronuk> there was an update to cups that got 'pulled' by the ubuntu archive admins, but some people may have got it and upgraded to it.
<acheronuk> see: https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?t=71637
<Nokaji> Ah, that was the gist I got but I'm rather new at this. It didn't seem to have the high coverage/awareness I might have expected
<Nokaji> thanks for the link, acheronuk - Im guessing they have a solution then, e.g. downgrade something
<acheronuk> so most likely need to identify and force downgrade any cups packages of that bad version back down to 2.1.3-4
<Nokaji> We are getting somewhere at last, O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! - lol
<acheronuk> Nokaji: I replied from post #6 in that thread
<acheronuk> (which is why I remembered it)
<Nokaji> Righty :)
<Nokaji> I guess this is a temp fix and they'll auto-fix it in future upgrades, or maybe there is not auto-mechanism for removing more recent numbers
<Nokaji> I'll have to read it and learn
<Nokaji> you've explained why not everyone has the problem - i.e. how quickly ppl update will vary
<acheronuk> Nokaji: the release of updates is also 'phased'. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhasedUpdates
<acheronuk> precisely to pick up regressions or issues while only a small percentage of user have the update.
<Nokaji> Ah, to destress servers, I guess - and maybe based on local, eg uk servers
<Nokaji> Oh
<Nokaji> is there a roll-back mechanism for premature upgrades?
<acheronuk> AFAIK, just releasing the previous version with a new higher revision number, *if* it's deemed serious enough
<acheronuk> more than that I can't comment
<Nokaji> hmh
<Nokaji> I guess eventualy there will always be a higher number so it would be self-healing
<Nokaji> could take some time though, ofc
#ubuntu-uk 2017-05-07
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<danielthebague> !#ubuntu-touch
<lubotu3> Information about the Ubuntu Touch platform for Phone and Tablet is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch . Support and discussion in #ubuntu-touch
<diddledan> who saw this yet? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/04/uk_bulk_surveillance_powers_draft/
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen it discussed in more tin foil hat wearing channels...
 * diddledan buffs his up
<zmoylan-pi> that you're still using tin foil and haven't upgraded to lead... *tsk*
<diddledan> lead is dangerous. otherwise they wouldn't put it in the water supply
<zmoylan-pi> but it is as i see it only making legal what we know/suspect what the various spy agencies have been doing for decades
<diddledan> I don't think that makes it any better
<zmoylan-pi> makes it legal :-)
<zmoylan-pi> you can always drag your government to the eu courts... :-P
<diddledan> Not once brexit is done
<zmoylan-pi> you've got 2 years to get it done :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ...or come up with an unbreakable encryption system
<diddledan> I'll get right on that
<diddledan> iOS prediction is weird when you just blindly accept whatever it suggests without typing anything
<diddledan> E.g.
<zmoylan-pi> or get 2-3 mates and swap blocks of text with to drive them nuts :-) xsdub asdoe asdkj asdje werlo
<diddledan> I'm gonna go for it and I'll have a bad time
<diddledan> That was entire iOS
<diddledan> Entirely
<zmoylan-pi> the first thing i do when i get a tablet or phone with touchscreen is kill autosuggest/correct
<zmoylan-pi> hate it hate it hate it
<diddledan> Apparently my phone wants me to say "I'm a bad guy"
<zmoylan-pi> it's why i love my nokia e63... i can tap out text on that ancient bugger super quick
<diddledan> I'm gonna go for it but it's gonna go bad but it's gonna go on the worst day ever man and I'll always have a good day
<diddledan> Seriously whacked!
<ali1234> i want to make a program that makes all the voice assistants talk to each other, modulo autosuggest for each platform
<zmoylan-pi> another thing i cannot abide... a microphone always listening... and now amazon is adding a camera to a version of their echos
<diddledan> Good idea, ali1234
<ali1234> you know none of them constantly stream to the cloud right?
<ali1234> that's why you have to press a button on the raspberry pi versions of google and amazon
<zmoylan-pi> if i used a voice assistant i'd want a clapper in front of it to turn it on... clap your hands twice and _then_ it turns the microphone on...
<ali1234> they didn't release the thing that detects "okay google" because it is done locally
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: even better is the amazon camera is built to perve on you getting dressed and undressed
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: the google voice one has that
<zmoylan-pi> but it's doing it in software i'll bet and not hardware like the clapper light switch from the 70s
<ali1234> it isn't functionally different to saying "okay google", it is just easier to program
<ali1234> yes it is done in software
<ali1234> but it also supports a button
<ali1234> so does the amazon sdk
<ali1234> actually the amazon one only supports a button
<ali1234> it turns out you can run that raspberry pi stuff on ubuntu unmodified btw
<diddledan> Not all droids can do okay google activation so require button activation
<ali1234> its written in python
<zmoylan-pi> i don't want software in charge of the button... that can be bypassed. hardware is much harder to /hack/ remotely http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1820747
<diddledan> Now who's tin foiling?!
<ali1234> well then you would need to make the button power on the pi and wait for it to boot up before making your request
<ali1234> that would probably be doable in about 2 seconds at best
<diddledan> A pi takes longer than that. Much longer
<zmoylan-pi> i'll openly admit to wearing tin foil hats... but then i'm in ireland were you could at one point bid on english spying equipment that sinn fein used to put up on an auction site after finding it in their cars/offices and homes
<diddledan> More like 30seconds or more
<ali1234> only if your distro is really rubbish
<ali1234> ./googlesamples-assistant -i 1.wav -o 2.wav && aplay 2.wav && ./googlesamples-assistant -i 2.wav -o 1.wav && aplay 1.wav
<ali1234> quickly degenerates to "sorry, i'm not sure how to help with that" after like 3 iterations
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<luna_> anyone in London that wants free tickets to an IT Security Expo in June?
<SuperMatt> I am in London, but I don't want said tickets
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't a real geek sneak in? :-P
<SuperMatt> but it's going to be SUPER SECURE, surely?
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't be worth sneaking in otherwise... :-P
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> anyone going to AWS summit London next week ?
<SuperMatt> I'd be very surprised if my boss didn't ask someone in the team to go
<czajkowski> .c
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: would need to register soon then
<czajkowski> bah hipchat doesn't work on 18.04 :/
<czajkowski> *grumble*
<daftykins> what kind of doesn't work?
<czajkowski> Package hipchat4 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<czajkowski> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<czajkowski> is only available from another source
<czajkowski> E: Package 'hipchat4' has no installation candidate
<SuperMatt> czajkowski: If I was going to something AWS related, we'd be showing off, rather than be sold to
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: fair, I kinda have to be there
<czajkowski> but may catch some sessions
<czajkowski> was just going to suggest if others were going, to meet up for a drink, face to face
<SuperMatt> well I have not been told anything thus far, but we might get invited along
<daftykins> !info hipchat bionic
<lubotu3> Package hipchat does not exist in bionic
<daftykins> (:
<czajkowski> I always see that smiley face as the chessire cat from alice in wonderland
<czajkowski> and never know if it's a :) or a :(
<SuperMatt> there's no hipchat snap either
<SuperMatt> I think it's mostly on its way out
<czajkowski> you're probably right, can use webchat for the time being
<czajkowski> I suspect we'll all end up on slack :/
<SuperMatt> I'm on slack now for work
<SuperMatt> That happened a couple of weeks ago
<daftykins> way too many chat progs :)
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry google will sort that out :-)
<Seeker`> s/sort it out/make it worse
<Azelphur> Upside: 3d printed a part that causes my window to vacuum seal, Downside: water is coming in from another window now. This storm is nuts on Margate seafront xD
<Azelphur> and water coming in the front door too
<SuperMatt> Have you tried putting your house through the tumble dryer?
<daftykins> hrmm anyone experienced on the vmware ESXi front? i'm attempting PCI passthrough of my 3ware RAID controller to a guest VM but just got "Failed to register the device pciPassthru0 for 3:0.0 due to unavailable hardware or software support."
<diddledan> daftykins: does your server have VT-d?
<diddledan> otherwise known as IOMMU
<daftykins> it does, however there was no BIOS parameter for it - so i just removed it from the VM's settings and it has now powered on :O
<diddledan> I'm not sure the freebie ESXi lets you use VT-d - I've not tried
<diddledan> ooh, 6.7.0 is out
<daftykins> ja i'm using 6.7.0-8169922 - turned out i didn't have enough personal details shared to be allowed a key all these past years xD
<daftykins> diddledan: might be a case of Ms. Configuration - 2018-04-30T19:23:41.689Z cpu0:2100697)WARNING: PCIPassthru: 5292: Couldn't setup PCI passthru IOMMU domain because the IOMMU can't reach the entire VM's memory range (lastIopn = 0x7ffffff, lastPPN = 0x7fffffff)
 * diddledan goes googley eyed
<daftykins> i wonder if it's relevant that i have it in the secondary slot rather than the primary, so it might be PCH attached rather than CPU attached
<daftykins> diddledan: wow i just got the driver installed for the 3ware and now see my RAID volume inside the guest OS :D
<diddledan> #o/
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> now i just need to run those commands to pass through my directly attached disks and my evil plan to decouple my Linux VM from being atop Windows has succeeded
<daftykins> my only concern is i don't have a clue how you update ESXi free...
<diddledan> this site keeps track of the updates and provides shell commands to update manually: https://esxi-patches.v-front.de/
<daftykins> ooh very handy, thanks - i currently have ESXi installed on a testing SSD inside the machine but i think that might be a waste
<daftykins> have you ever done much physical install conversion? kinda tempted to image up my old Windows install (on another SSD) as a backup, then mount it directly under a VM and see if i can make it boot
<diddledan> I haven't done any
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i've prepared accordingly but reinstalling the old host as a guest would be a lot of work
<daftykins> take a gander at what i've done today if you're interested :) dumped the old core 2 duo kit and moved to one of my ebay specials (haswell) https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/giWeZ9DfLpYzgEz
<daftykins> also seriously de-dusted the case since it suffered from my building works last year :(
<diddledan> is that a tall tower or is the window sill giving me optical hallucinations
<diddledan> ?
<daftykins> coolermaster stacker, hooooooj!
<diddledan> don't confuse that toothbrush with the one in your bathroom
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> what's this sata box? https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/giWeZ9DfLpYzgEz#//IMG_20180430_175341.jpg
<daftykins> just a SATA backplane
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> looks like it's got redundant uplinks?
<daftykins> i have a 6 disk array though so one has to ride up top separated xD
<daftykins> yeah for SAS i think
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> I want one of those!
<diddledan> gimme!
<daftykins> best part is when you first buy it and connect all your cables to the wrong set - and wonder why you see no disks!
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> they're pretty dear :( Â£100
<diddledan> ouch
<daftykins> i'd love another but yeah, ow
<daftykins> the new noctua fans are ace as well, super quiet PC now
<daftykins> but then it's been in the same config for over 10 years so the others were likely just wearing out
<daftykins> hmm ah well spoke too soon, looks like my RAID card is dropping a few bricks when made to do some heavy IO
<diddledan> dang
<daftykins> if IOMMU *did* work with it in the primary slot, it might have a chance at avoiding this
<daftykins> diddledan: welp i changed slot, no change, started to wonder if a host driver is needed for IOMMU use, but i think i have to just give up and accept my controller is too old to be supported
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> sadface
<daftykins> i can keep trying to use passthrough without IOMMU, as it might be a driver version mismatch... buuuut i think it won't go anywhere
<daftykins> the controller just completely reinitialised over and over when trying to run crystaldiskmark against the array
<daftykins> after getting a rather ace 450MB/sec read rate ;D
<diddledan> reinitialising suggests that the vm and the host might be fighting for contorl
<daftykins> well the host has the passthrough driver module loaded for the device and is passing it through to the VM fine with BIOS boot and no IOMMU etc
<daftykins> diddledan: think i found i was on an old driver in the Windows guest, buuuuut i may've broken the VM installing it 8D
<diddledan> oops
<daftykins> s'ok, only a testing one with no value
<diddledan> don't you love governments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3WkMeObqRY
<daftykins> have you caught the one about the 'ewaste' PC guy who was shipping Windows restore discs for 25c/copy and has been sent down for 18 months (or more, i forget) for doing so?
<daftykins> MS managed to convince the court, for similar reasons as in that vid, that he was conducting acts of piracy and distributing potentiall unsafe software
<daftykins> +y
<daftykins> (oh i should add i meant manufacturer restore discs, so e.g. Dell, Lenovo, HP...)
<diddledan> yeah, stupid
<daftykins> Louis has a 2 hour interview on youtube but i haven't found the time yet xD
<diddledan> I love this one: https://www.youtube.com/embed/fViHxVwA6hk?start=166&end=185
<daftykins> phew.
<daftykins> well well, it doesn't fall over this time when the Windows VM isn't up to date - just has the controller driver on
<daftykins> meh this probably isn't worth the risk of instability
<zmoylan-pi> windows... stable... *bzzzzzzz* words not usually associated with each other! :-P
<daftykins> i was kind of afraid to replace that server of mine, it's been rock solid :)
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, lets take something that's worked ok for ever and replace it with new shiny kit...
<daftykins> not wise to stay on core 2 kit due to spectre
<daftykins> plus i've doubled my cores, dropped the noise and hugely dropped power consumption
<zmoylan-pi> just disconnect it from all networks :-)
<daftykins> that would defeat its' purpose
<zmoylan-pi> lots of floppy swapping....
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-01
<daftykins> hey i'm still getting over the last set i touched :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<czajkowski> ello ello
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> hey czajkowski
<luna_> Videos from Linux Fest Northwest 2018 is out on Youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e6BKJPnb5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-UEJ0bka44&list=PLjDc7gDlIASRIr2cr2AkhOSEGY96WhscR
<knightwise> aha  just received the replacement wifi/bluetooth adaptor for my dell xps13
<knightwise> the broadcom that i have does not want to work under ubuntu
<daftykins> diddledan: psst you awake?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-02
<knightwise> morning peepz
<daftykins> \o
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> how you doin man
<daftykins> not too bad thanks, succeeded in a nice home server rebuild :)
<daftykins> all well with yourself?
<SuperMatt> morning
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> yes it is
<SuperMatt> and it's going to be the last day of rain before the summer properly starts :)
<SuperMatt> After today, no more jackets
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> that warm weekend a bit ago, i had the shorts on just long enough to remember i hadn't gotten the pocket holes repaired yet!
<SuperMatt> I very rarely get my legs out, but I did that weekend
<daftykins> that's the spirit :D
<SuperMatt> But you'll never catch my in sandals
<daftykins> same! an abomination
<daftykins> and very rarely flip flops
<AuroraAvenue> They got the gibson :D
<AuroraAvenue> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43967923
<SuperMatt> oh, I've just discovered cool things that I didn't know about previously
<SuperMatt> in mysql/mariadb in 18.04 (and maybe 16.04, I don't know), there's no root@localhost password, and instead you have to connect via socket
<SuperMatt> also, there's a cool tool called mariabackup, which does a great job or backing up your dbs
<Gargoyle> Hi.
<Gargoyle> Is there a dedicated snapcraft channel?
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<Gargoyle> Found it... #snappy
<daftykins> SuperMatt: i remember seeing an intro to mariadb on 16.04 - suggesting to run the hardening script, seemed neat
<Gargoyle> Well this is odd!! /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.11.0-openjdk-amd64/bin/java -version = openjdk version "10.0.1" 2018-04-17
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-03
<diddledan> daftykins: if you're restricted by vmware esxi, it looks like someone is making a community build of xenserver without the license fees - you need to use a webui instead of the citrix xencenter because the latter doesn't work with it - the webui is free if you build it yourself, or has license fees for advanced functionality if you use the blessed build
<daftykins> funkeh
<diddledan> https://xcp-ng.org
<daftykins> diddledan: oh i won in the end though, i used vmcenter converter to take my old physical server's OS install and send it straight over the network onto my new server, the ESXi host, now everything is running as if it was never gone
<diddledan> so if you're happy rolling your own then you can get advanced functionality for freebie
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> how did the windows license cope being moved into a vm?
<daftykins> no IOMMU but i don't even know if that would benefit it
<daftykins> oddly enough it gave zero hoots - just shows up as activated still xD
<diddledan> well blow my raspberry!
<daftykins> indeed! i have a feeling they may care very little about 7 now though
<diddledan> maybe it copied the hardware strings into the vm configuration
<diddledan> I don't know which strings are important to do it myself though
<daftykins> Barber's Adagio
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> I got one of these cheap off ebay .. it's in the post for delivery in a couple days: https://www.lantronix.com/products/lantronix-spider/
<daftykins> but yeah, so the newly converted VM then had the physical disks that OS used to have attached to it via commands to make it think they were .vmdk's - and the RAID controller was passed through so that came up as before, moreover every service in the house is running without batting an eyelid really
<daftykins> ah yeah, cor you were eyeing that up ages ago :>
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I had a couple Â£10 vouchers so I used them
<diddledan> came to ~Â£60
<daftykins> cor bit steep for something that looks like your mates Nintendo Wii knock off controller
<diddledan> new they're super expensive
<diddledan> direct from manufacturer they're $392.00 new
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> so, that's about Â£290-300?
<diddledan> at 1.4-1 $-Â£ that's Â£280
<daftykins> i'd noticed the rate is kinda nice again now
<diddledan> oh, xe.com says the rate is about 1.35:1
<diddledan> that adds $8
<diddledan> err 8Â£
<diddledan> bah @ back asses
<daftykins> :<
 * daftykins continues the application of the new win10 build
<diddledan> the april 18 build?
<daftykins> yipyip
<diddledan> that landed on the 1st of may
<daftykins> indeed! but i was busy with the server so refreshes weren't exactly top of my list
<daftykins> i had some amusing scenarios during the first boot of that converted-to-vm physical host btw
<daftykins> "why does it think the IP is in use? oh yeah, 'cause the REAL box behind me is using it"
<SuperMatt> morning all
<Gargoyle> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<czajkowski> ello ello
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> wow there's some sun out today down 'ere, wintery in the shade / indoors though
 * diddledan wonders what popeycore is doing with core
<daftykins> champion idler ;)
<czajkowski> popey++ camera is very nice!!
<popey> yay
<czajkowski> if anyone wants to read a new advenutre I'm working on with Leslie, we're blogging weekly on various of topics and looking for suggestions also
<czajkowski> https://medium.com/@leslielauralive/our-first-advice-column-developer-relations-and-personal-integrity-23df6677b00f
<Azelphur> Does anyone know if Virgin needs to lay cables all the way to your house, or if they just need to get fiber to the cabinet?
<daftykins> do they do VDSL as well as coax now or something?
<Azelphur> I honestly don't know, I'm asking because I live in a listed building, and they are laying cables on the street outside, and the cabinet is literally as close as it can be to me
<Azelphur> so if it's FTTC, I'm good, if it's gotta come all the way into the house, I get nothing :(
<daftykins> mmm pass then, not seen true fiber tech over here
<DJones> Azelphur: I keep getting virgin salespeople calling at our house offering their full fibre services, despite the fact that our estate doen't even have virgin cabling installed, they're spammers, they make talktalk look like god service providers
<DJones> s/god/good/
<daftykins> DJones: do you have phone lines? i think virgin may also be an LLU ISP choice
<diddledan> Azelphur: they're fttc but they need to run a coax into your home
<diddledan> unless you already have the coax installed
<diddledan> my ISP doesn't do too badly (AAISP) https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8029-aaisp-idnet-and-hyperoptic-the-big-winners-in-april-ratings-battle
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> with a mainlander mates help we picked Zen for London, haven't had it long to comment :D
<daftykins> diddledan: oh is that that Andrews and Arnold i have been told about?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> so it is
<daftykins> think my mate warned me they had a rubbish FUP or something though, what did he say...
<diddledan> they have a transfer allowance
<diddledan> no FUP just a cap
<diddledan> I'm on their 1TB/mo service
<daftykins> ok, still a limit but different meanings :)
<daftykins> i would not be a fan of that, although i can see it working for the majority
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-04
<knightwise> morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<knightwise> hey guys
<knightwise> how are tricks !
<SuperMatt> bloomin twitter and github
 * zmoylan-pi changes twitter password... a plain log file... how... dumb...
<zmoylan-pi> had that password for 10 years... :-)
<SuperMatt> I don't think it would have been a plain log file. I image they probably had a logging system that was capturing all the POST variables, and they probably forgot to leave out log in requests.
<SuperMatt> But I've now I've been through my passwords and changed all the ones that matter, I.E those which could potentially cost me money
<SuperMatt> I'm using a password manager now, so I'm just using fully random passwords for everything
<DJones> daftykins: We have phone lines, but at the end of the day, no matter which ISP I use, they're using the same hard wired cables, so to me, I don't think it'd make a difference
<daftykins> DJones: yeah i just meant (that i think) it doesn't immediately mean Virgin can't offer you anything if you have no coax in your area
<DJones> daftykins: Agreed, BT & Sky are the biggest suppliers in the area, so presumably have the largest infrastructure, which is why I'm not changing
<DJones> Must admit, Sky haven't been a problem, decent speeds, no downtime etc, so can't complain about them
<daftykins> i think if you don't push much data they're probably a good choice yeah, as i think Sky have caps?
<daftykins> down here in the islands we don't have BT, there are three ISPs but two small ones just resell the same service of the main one
<DJones> No caps that I'm aware of, although I'm not downloading anything that would hit a cap anyway
<nucc1> does anyone consider it a bug that open-scsi installs a service which waits *indefinitely* for network connection at startup?
<daftykins> !info open-scsi
<lubotu3> Package open-scsi does not exist in artful
<daftykins> more like just not a sane default? can't say i know what that is though
<nucc1> sorry, i meant open-iscsi
<nucc1> yes, it's an un-sane default :)
<nucc1> ships by default in the 18.04 server (or it installs by default) can never tell nowadays :)
<nucc1> anyway, even the installer refused to progress without a network connection
<nucc1> I don't know if I somehow ended up with a "cloud" spin of bionic or something
<nucc1> also, this is Bionic Beaver
<nucc1> !info open-iscsi
<lubotu3> open-iscsi (source: open-iscsi): iSCSI initiator tools. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.874-4ubuntu3 (artful), package size 287 kB, installed size 1558 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<daftykins> kinda had a feeling it could've been iSCSI but didn't want to spam the bot too much more without being sure :>
<daftykins> standard server image then huh? i can't remember if subiquity had much of a step for picking software
<nucc1> yes, it's the standard server image
<daftykins> such as the older server LTS releases had tasksel
<nucc1> Yea, the whole thing seems to assume that I'm deploying to a public cloud
<nucc1> i'm now manually undoing all the unwanted things it caused that i can find
<daftykins> well apparently it is coming with this cloud-image rubbish on it now
<nucc1> yea, it's called cloud-init (kinda wanna call it cloud-innit?)
<daftykins> honestly i'm a bit hesitant to make use of bionic with all the junk it comes with - i think it has a 3GB default install size even on digitalocean
<daftykins> that's the one - i keep forgetting its name as i haven't put much time into bionic yet
<nucc1> hmmm, i'm building a router, and i just wanted the latest-greatest so i could poke into the innards
<daftykins> i don't like the new method for static IP addressing either
<nucc1> well, that was a surprise, but i think it makes sense
<daftykins> is that all it's going to do? think i'd rather run pfsense
<nucc1> YAML is i assume good for scripts
<nucc1> i am more comfy in ubuntu
<daftykins> thing is i don't think i'll be memorising that yaml config format anytime soon versus i knew the /etc/network/interfaces file inside out
<daftykins> right but it's general purpose, you have to reinvent the wheel to run *buntu as a router rather than something specifically designed to be a router
<nucc1> yes, the re-inventing the wheel part is the only way I think i'll update my knowledge.
<daftykins> oh ok so more of a test setup rather than live system? :>
<nucc1> it will become my main router, and then i want to use it to learn about traffic accounting in linux
<daftykins> what's the hardware? curious as i recently did a big overhaul of my main home server and cut power draw hugely \o/
<nucc1> i got a jetway jbc 365
<nucc1> and a 2GB stick of RAM.
<nucc1> https://www.mini-itx.com/store/~JBC365
<nucc1> it turns out that all developers apparently run Xeon CPUs with PCiE SSDs
<nucc1> because I couldn't use a good old spinning disk inside this machine.
<daftykins> ooh neat
<nucc1> The bios assumes that the disk is bad because it's slow at POST
<nucc1> so i only got it to boot successfully about 50% of the time
<daftykins> yeah you don't wanna go running spinning rust in low power kit anyway
<daftykins> does it have a BIOS with spectre mitigations available?
<nucc1> well, it had a lot of capacity so i figured perhaps i could set up a cifs share on it too
<nucc1> he he, i have not bothered about spectre
<daftykins> granted the newer one just came out in the news, but it's not something that should be ignored
<nucc1> i don't think merely crafting packets is enough to exploit it, but well, i'm being cavalier about it
<daftykins> i'm moving away from all the old core 2 systems i had since intel abandoned patching them
<nucc1> that's paranoid :)
<nucc1> keeping my good old sandybridge
<nucc1> haven't even bothered to check for fixes.
<nucc1> it's not a cloud machine
<daftykins> it's not the primary reason i'm dumping them, like i said i cut power on my home server by dumping a core 2 duo and moving to a low TDP i5 haswell
<daftykins> i've a Sony sandybridge laptop here that'll never get patched
<nucc1> Yea, I have generally avoided re-purposing old hardware to use as a router...
<nucc1> even though getting a low-power machine as I did costs more probably than old hardware would use in electricity, it sits better with me mentally.
<daftykins> too much power for a router yeah - i have a couple of those AMD APU2 systems from linitx.com for pfsense routers
<nucc1> this isn't a bad machine: https://linitx.com/product/pc-engines-apu2-c4-system-board-with-4gb-ram/14822
<daftykins> yeah that's the one
<daftykins> 16GB mSATA SSD
<daftykins> good company too
<diddledan> why fireworks?
<daftykins> fireworks?
<diddledan> fireworks!
<daftykins> in amazingstoke?
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> celebrating 40 years of spam email? :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-05
<brobostigon> morning all.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<luna_> morning
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today... bed early to catch dawn chorus program tonight from midnight on radio... https://www.rte.ie/radio1/mooney/generic/2018/0327/950416-dawn-chorus-2018/
<nucc1> do the /etc/network/if-pre-up.d hooks continue to work on 18.04? or is there some new place if i want to specify scripts that execute on network events?
<nucc1> daftykins: trying to use ubuntu 18.04 as a router looks increasingly like a bad idea
<nucc1> the /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/ hooks don't work for one thing. dnsmasq is shipped and installed, but no systemd service exists for it, and of course, systemd-resolvd exists just to get in your way :(
<Guest76993> Hi room. Just did a fresh install of ubuntu 18.04 on my laptop and was trying to use my epson sx100 scanner on ubuntu. Installed iscan driversl.This worked perfect on previous versions of ubuntu but not detecting the scanner this time. can any one help .thanks in advance
<zleap> has anyone produced a poster to promote ubuntu 18.04 ?
<zmoylan-pi> any windows 10 poster? :-D
<zleap> there used to be a site for things like ubuntu promo stuff
<zleap> a few years ago i made a few posters
<zleap> but other people made better ones
<zleap> i installed 18.04 along side mint,  it won't boot properly and just freezes, so I am now trying to figure out how to make grub boot mint 18.3 by default again
<zleap> ok got it,  brb just testing
<zleap> not sure why 18.04 hangs, as the livecd booted fine and ubuntu installed fine
<penguin42> at what point does it hang?
<zleap> i pressed esc to get messages up it got as far as startng user manager for pid 120
<zleap> i think
<zleap> then nothing happened no keyboard response (not even caps lock light on / off)
<zleap> however i can select recovery mode and get in that way
<penguin42> there's a whole bunch of flags you can pass to systemd to get ti to give more info or take things one step at a time
<zleap> ah ok
<zleap> this system is dual boot so hard to be here and ask questions let along find a way to pste error message links in here
<Guest27068> Hi guys. Just installed ubuntu 18.04 and find that image scan for linux is not identifying my epson printer anymore. It worked fine on earlier versions of ubuntu. Did a bit of googling but no much help. Can  some one guide me in the right directions. thanks
<zleap> sane
<Guest27068> zleap, yes installed sane following data and core package
<Guest27068> but keep saying printer not available
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i guess it was working before
<Guest27068> zleap, yes with previous versions of ubuntu no problems
<zleap> can you apt search for your printer
<Guest27068> zleap, how do i do that?
<zleap> for me apt search printer
<zleap> however doing apt search printer | grep epson   which searches the output for epson gives me nothing for epson printers
<Guest27068> zleap, does that mean it is not supported
<zleap> have you plugged the printer in
<Guest27068> yes
<zleap> is it usb or wireless
<Guest27068> usb
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so if you open a console and type dmesg
<zleap> what happens (last message should refer to printer being removed (or item being removed) plug printer back in abnd do dmesg and you may get a message saying someting has been plugged in
<Guest27068> https://pastebin.com/2vEK9C7H
<Guest27068> thats the output with the printer
<zleap> USB Bidirectional printer dev 12 if 1 alt 0 proto 2 vid 0x04B8 pid 0x0841
<zleap> suggests it knows the printer is there
<Guest27068> zleap, printer is working but just the scanner which is not working
<zleap> erm
<Guest27068> sx100 epson which is all in one printer
<Guest27068> zleap, intrestingly simplescan is working with the same scanner
<Guest27068> http://support.epson.net/linux/en/iscan_c.html this is the place where i get iscan for ubuntu normally. did this time too from the same site
<zleap> can you use simplescan
<zleap> which ubuntu did you use before
<Guest27068> zleap, ubuntu 16.04 and yes i can scan with simplescan.
<zleap> 1 hold on to the links to pastebin in a text file somewhere
<zleap> so just use simplescan or are you looking for specific features
<Guest27068> iscan was use ful to adjust scanning environment and resolution etc
<Guest27068> also worked will with gimp. but now cant scan into gimp as iscan not working
<Guest27068> zleap, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1728012 this is the kind of issue that i am facing
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1728012 in sane-backends (Ubuntu) "Many 3rd party scanner drivers are broken by a sane change" [High,Confirmed]
<zleap> i ah
<zleap> that could be it then,  thanks lubotu3
<zleap> i am off,  getting really tired
<zleap> i'll try and help tomorrow
<zleap> cyua
<Guest27068> okay zleap
#ubuntu-uk 2018-05-06
<zleap> back
<zleap> so 18.04 stops loading at the point where it is loading the user manager for pid 120
<zleap> i have no idea how to do all the previously mentioned systemd stuff
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> that was a long night... listening to bird song across the world... can't wait for next year...
<SuperEngineer> !patience | zmoylan-pi
<lubotu3> zmoylan-pi: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or https://ubuntuforums.org or https://askubuntu.com/
<SuperEngineer> please wait for next year
<SuperEngineer> next year may not be online right now
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> [I hear next year usually comes online only after new year's eve has gone off line
<fujisan> sup popey and ikonia
<zleap> just a question on ubuntu not being able to boot, it stops when loading user manager
<zleap> as the system is dual boot I can view the file system ubuntu is installed to from my mint install,  what should i look for on the ubuntu file system to try and narrow down (or for people to help me do that) what the issue may be ?
<penguin42> hmm what's 'user manager'
<zleap> when booting ubuntu,  i can press esc and get messages during boot
<zleap> however when it gets to user manager for pid 120 the system just hangs
<zleap> oddly the live cd works fine,  it is just post install it has failed
<zleap> i can also boot fine with recovery mode
 * penguin42 isn't sure what 'user manager' is
<zleap> neither am i
<zleap> i am just trying to copy the message i get
<zleap> however there 'has' to be a log of this somewhere on the file system it is a case of finding  that then copying the info to pastebin or somewhere to help
<Guest32919> Hi guys. Just installed ubuntu 18.04 and find that image scan for linux is not identifying my epson printer anymore. It worked fine on earlier versions of ubuntu. Did a bit of googling but no much help. it says sane change has brken soem thrid party scanner drivers on launchpad. Can  some one guide me in the right directions. thanks
<Guest32919> zleap,
<penguin42> zleap: If you can boot into recovery you can try journalctl -b-1  to get the log of messages from the last boot
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> is there anything specific i should be lookinng for int eh log
<penguin42> the thing that made it break :-)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i will give that a go,  brb
<Nokaji> That's a point, my 16.04 hasn't performed any upgrade to 18.04 - I guess it is in my settings, somewhere
<Nokaji> I have selected: Notify me of a new ubuntu version "for long term support versions"
<penguin42> yeh but they don't normally enable lts upgrades until a bit later for stuff to shake out
<Nokaji> Ah, okay ... it's not just me then
<Nokaji> maybe I can/should wait, then ... hopefully not too long though
<zleap> ok back,  i decided to re install 18.04 and still get the same error
<zleap> started session c1 of user gdm
<zleap> started user manager for uid 120
<zleap> after which system stops repondingm but I can reboot with ctrl-alt-sysrq RSEIUB
<zleap> so there may be some kernel magic I can use to do something other than reboot the system
<penguin42> zleap: Can you ctrl-alt-f2/f3 at that point to get a text console ?
<zleap> i will try later, i need to reboot for that
<zleap> i am sure I ahve tried and it failed but if I manage that, i will see if I can log in
<penguin42> zleap: My guess would be that it's a graphics driver choking when it tries to start up the graphics
<zleap> so why do I get a live session ok
<penguin42> yeh, good question
<zleap> ill grab a netbook and instal on there,  it will be slow but just to figure out if there is an issue with the install media
<zleap> is there a list of key bindings similar to ctrl-alt-sysrq RSEIUB
<zleap> not sure exactly what to search for for that
<penguin42> not sure; there's two separate things there
<penguin42> the alt-sysrq stuff is documented somewhere, but that's quite separate to the virtual console switching
<zleap> yeah but if there is a sysrq thing to release the keyboard it may then allow me to use alt-f2 etc if it doesn't work initially
<penguin42> note ctrl-alt-f2 or try f3) - you shouldn't need any other keys for that unless it's very very hung
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-enable-all-sysrq-functions-on-linux#h6-the-sysrq-magic-key
<zleap> no idea what that page is doing,  trying to print it and it says it can't print as it page still loading
<zleap> i want to just print to pdf for reference
<zleap> ok i need to do some reading in
<zleap> https://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/sysrq.txt
<zleap> to figure out what i am doing with alt-sysrq,  as a few things are not enabled
<zleap> i am guessing having 256 in there enables everything
<penguin42> zleap: it takes a special value of '1' to enable everything
<zleap> ah ok
<zleap> right now it is 176  so 128+32+16 debugging dumps, sync reboot power off
<zleap> so if I edit https://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/sysrq.txt and use 1 is that safe / recommended
<zleap> penguin42: got documentation printed off,  so some light reading for later :D
<zleap> back shortly
