#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-21
<sabdfl> witing for mdz
<mdz> sabdfl: yes?
<sabdfl> let's talk about releasing right away
<sabdfl> elmo's asleep, and deserves it, i am happy to go without him unless he said anything about having more to do before release
<sabdfl> we can wake him up if there's a /.'ing
<mdz> he said nothing to me
<sabdfl> or, unless anything thinks he'd be upset to miss it
<Kamion> I haven't done my usual battery of testing yet, it took unexpectedly long to rsync everything
<Kamion> but there's been plenty of other testing this time round
<sabdfl> he's key to the mirroring thing, but i expect he will be up before the major news sites are carrying the story
<sabdfl> one advantage to releasing now is catching the full day's news on US tz's
<mdz> even on EST it's only 0715
<mdz> but if you want me to send out the announcement, it's either soon (stay up a bit) or much later (sleep)
<sabdfl> i'm happy to announce now, have kamion watching it for the next 8 hours while you sleep, then you covering it
<Kamion> ok, shall I copy to release dirs?
<sabdfl> any objections to a release now?
<Kamion> my install-i386 test is still running, but hey :-)
<sabdfl> eta till that's done?
<mdz> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DraftHoaryPreviewAnnouncement has seen some tweaks; you want a final review before I paste it into email?
<Kamion> coupla minutes
<sabdfl> mdz: has everyone had a chance to add their tech pieces
<sabdfl> ?
<Kamion> I'm still unconvinced about claiming "multimedia ready"
<sabdfl> i think the preview should be aimed at developers
<Kamion> that was something sivang added IIRC
<mdz> it's seen a bunch of revisions
<mdz> I haven't really tracked them
<mdz> Kamion: I agree, that's a bit shady
<sabdfl> can i add python 2.4?
<sabdfl> editing now
<mdz> about the only multimedia feature we have out of the box is Vorbis playback
<sabdfl> let me say vorbis playback then
<Kamion> what are we going to do with http://www.ubuntu.com/download/?
<Kamion> it has a load of direct links to warty images at the moment
<mdz> sabdfl: we had that in warty, too, of course
<mdz> let's not link to /download/ at all in this announcement
<Kamion> although only some of the links are warty-specific, some would cover both
<Kamion> it's a bit of a mess
<Kamion> mdz: we do kind of have to link somewhere ...
<Mithrandir> could we drop the multiple exclamation marks, pretty please?
<mdz> Kamion: link directly to cdimage
<Kamion> Mithrandir: meh, yeah
<Kamion> mdz: well, releases.u.c
<mdz> yes, please
<mdz> Kamion: right
<sabdfl> what's the link? i've got the Big Plone Lock
<Kamion> http://releases.ubuntu.com/hoary/ (does not yet exist)
<Kamion> it'll be hoary-preview-*
<sabdfl> just that link should be enough then
<mdz>  /hoary/ ?
<mdz> or /hoary/preview/ ?
<Kamion> with the same "select a CD" page that's on /warty/
<Kamion> mdz: this is what we did for warty preview
<mdz> hmm, ok
<Kamion> please don't make me reorganise releases.u.c *again* :-)
<sabdfl> works for me
<sabdfl> Kamion: sydney :-)
<Kamion> cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/preview/ is organised thus
<Kamion> releases.ubuntu.com exists with the express purpose of being simpler
<Kamion> because sabdfl wanted it that way :)
<sabdfl> any other changes?
<mdz> sabdfl: s/apt-get.org/& and more/ ?  we've imported stuff from other sites as well
<Kamion> install-i386 is good
<Kamion> er
<Kamion> sabdfl: drop the "and DVD" please, near the top
<ogra_live> sabdfl: there will be a lot of stuff in universe not yet on apt-get org for release (hula, php5 etc)
<Kamion> we decided not to do DVDs for preview
<sabdfl> my sed-fu isn't so good.. does that mean s/apt-get.org/apt-get.org and more/
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: yes
<Mithrandir> & is "replace with what the replacement matched"
<Kamion> ok, about to publish: going ...
<Kamion> going ...
<Kamion> gne
<Kamion> +o
<Kamion> drama is marginally less effective when misspelled
<mdz> sabdfl: you want the announcement to go anyplace besides ubuntu-announce?
<sabdfl>  /hoary/ not found
<sabdfl> Kamion: yes, adds that essential Dr Evil component, though
<sabdfl> mdz:  /.?
<mdz> sabdfl: do they have an email submission address?
<mdz> I thought someone had to submit through the webiste
<mdz> website
<sabdfl> no, got to do it manually, maybe let's NOT submit it
<Kamion> sabdfl: /hoary/ will be there in a bit, it takes it a while to copy and then to md5sum THE WORLD
<sabdfl> lwn, distrowatch et yes
<sabdfl> Kamion: and the UNIVERSE?
<mdz> wow, we're >100 points ahead on the 3-month distrowatch
<mdz> sabdfl: lwn is subscribed to -announce, that seems to be how they prefer to do it
<mdz> I can copy them as well, but there isn't much point
<fabbione> after tomorrow we will be way more than that :-)
<sabdfl> ok, -announce is fine for now then
<Kamion> sabdfl: fortunately little does not mirror universe ;-)
<mdz> is there a distrowatch equivalent to lwn@lwn.net?
* sabdfl searches memory for a long-lost set of bits
<mdz> ah, distro@distrowatch.com
<mdz> they don't seem to be on -announce, so I'll CC them
<Kamion> mdz: just to confirm, daily/20050310.2 and daily-live/20050310, right?
<mdz> though they pick up stuff from our discussion lists very quickly
<Kamion> i.e. targets of */current
<mdz> yes, unless you did another build when I wasn't looking
<Kamion> nope :-)
<mdz> whatever matches the md5sums in preview/
<Kamion> preview/ is what I'm creating at the moment
<mdz> whatever you mirrored to preview and then rm -rf'd earlier, then :-)
<Kamion> oh god it's re-md5summing .pool/warty-*, sigh, I must fix that to be more intelligent
<mdz> f1e7bf00ced6e10db4cad8fb9c33d2f6  hoary-install-amd64.iso
<mdz> 0f04de0a00e922cda2e6c49c37eceb7f  hoary-install-i386.iso
<mdz> 1281b9ae6bd527e7d236eb8e44e8c84e  hoary-install-powerpc.iso
<thom> ouch
<Kamion> or else it gets slower for every release we do :-)
<Kamion> still, faster to do this than to rewrite the publish script on the fly
<mdz> 1bef5179a459a07c9e4320127193ae69  hoary-live-amd64.iso
<mdz> 022b6e193cf8c95e943c97bb94c03d00  hoary-live-i386.iso
<mdz> etc.
<mdz> is what I tested
<Kamion> ok, good
<mdz> sabdfl: waiting for you to save the announcement
<sabdfl> Kamion: /hoary/ still not found
<mdz> md5summing THE WORLD
<Kamion> sabdfl: we're not there yet :-)
<Kamion> going as fast as I can
<sabdfl> mdz: i'm saved
<sabdfl> time to upgrade little :-)
<Kamion> nah, time to fix scripts ;)
<sabdfl> i was thinking
<sabdfl> releases will grow linearly
<sabdfl> moores law is exponential
<mdz> "the preview of their second release - Ubuntu 5.04 Preview"?
<sabdfl> in theory, time should decrease after some future release
<sabdfl> 5.04-preview
<sabdfl> you have the lock
<Kamion> the linear growth is only an artifact of me md5summing everything rather than just the new stuff
<ogra_live> hmm, shouldnt the hoary description also read "matured" ?
<sabdfl> i was just taking issue with a very technical point in the long term :-)
<sabdfl> (12:34:48) Kamion: or else it gets slower for every release we do :-)
<Kamion> that was referring to me currently md5summing warty+hoary
<mdz> I guess it can't hurt to metnion preview twice
<mdz> to avoid "Ubuntu 5.04 is released!!11"-itis
<mdz> sabdfl: "I must fix that to be more intelligent...or else..."
<sabdfl> Kamion: yes, but if the cd size to be md5summed grows linearly, and system speed grows exponentially, then at some point time will start to decline
<Kamion> fortunately CD size cannot grow linearly :-) but DVD size might; md5summing all that all over the place will be a laugh
<Kamion> but yes, you're right :)
<mdz> I've copied the draft announcement
<sabdfl> i suppose we might switch to dvd-only releases at some point
<mdz> and fixed the double !!
<Mithrandir> mdz: thanks
<mdz> standing by
<Kamion> lr-x------    1 cjwatson warthogs       64 Mar 10 12:41 3 -> /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/www/simple/.pool/warty-install-amd64.iso
<Kamion> sigh
<Kamion> and one of those days we need to un-nny little
<Kamion> s/those/these/
<mdz> nny.com will be with us 4-ever
<sabdfl> not least, when we spin off new business ideas, we can use nny
<sabdfl> for old times sake
<fabbione> sabdfl: eheh cool idea :)
* mdz yawns
<Kamion> hm, we'll want live torrents
<mdz> we have them already
<Kamion> not in simple/hoary/ we don't
* Kamion generates
<Kamion> for some reason it only torrents the install CDs automatically, that's a bug
<sabdfl> mdz: need to ping cliff for a new splashscreen
<mdz> it doesn't copy the ones you already generated?
<sabdfl> i think we could make it really nice with the new look
<Kamion> no, I wasn't sure if they were URL-dependent or what
<Kamion> and I can't rely on having torrents for dailies anyway
<Kamion> oh, besides, the ones in releases.u.c have "Ubuntu CD releases.ubuntu.com" as the comment
<mdz> sabdfl: he has made some, but they were sort of left behind by the last-minute desktop changes
<sabdfl> mdz: should we put the .torrent url's directly in the announcement?
<mdz> sabdfl: tough call
<sabdfl> let's do it
<mdz> 6 URLs is too many to pack in there, I'd say
<sabdfl> can i edit again?
<mdz> edit away, I'm branched already :-P
<sabdfl> ok, have it your way :-)
<sabdfl> i suppose the directory listing will include the torrents?
<Kamion> yes
<sabdfl> so people will use them when our bandwidth is maxed
<mdz> - it's a lot of URLs
<mdz> - not everyone can use the .torrent, and those who can't will be confused
<sabdfl> fuck, i forgot to bump up our ceiling
<sabdfl> will do it for final
<mdz> - if we don't list them all, we'll have to choose which architectures
<mdz> sabdfl: how much advance notice do they need?
<sabdfl> mdz: not much
<sabdfl> i don't think there's actually a cap on there
<Kamion> 'k, syncing
<sabdfl> but it might result in a bill
<Kamion> (to mirrors)
<mdz> sabdfl: if there is, it's >=200mbit
<sabdfl> we've hit 300mbit before easily
<sabdfl> and for final i'd not be surprised if we crack 500
<sabdfl> that's like a CD every 10 seconds
<sabdfl> like a virtual mako
<mdz> elmo said we would receive no bill for bursting
<mdz> so I assume we'll just get out-competed at some point
<sabdfl> in general i've held them to that
<sabdfl> ok, just left a voicemail for the guy, so he doesn't get the WTF experience
<Kamion> come on, mirnyy, you can do it
<sabdfl> mdz: take a nap, we'll call when little is done :-)
<sabdfl> ah, mirnyy
<Kamion> little's done, it's all the rsyncs now
<mdz> aren't those syncing from little?
<thom> torrents should be up
<Kamion> although will need another sync-mirrors run 'cos I forgot to update the releases.ubuntu.com index, but that should be quick
<Kamion> mdz: yeah
<mdz> surely little is the bottleneck
<sabdfl> !!! w00t
<Kamion> but I stop regarding it as little's responsibility :)
<sabdfl> sorry, premature exclamation
<fabbione> that "w00t" looks so much to the one that was in the apache build process....
<fabbione> was that coming from you sabdfl ?
<Kamion> I thought that was netgod's fault
<sabdfl> cosmic ray, synapse
<mdz> is that the one that echoed a bell to the terminal too?
<Kamion> oh, it's still doing http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/preview/, hmm
<mdz> man I hated that
<Mithrandir> mdz: you have beeps on?
<Kamion> bind 'set bell-style none'
<fabbione> mdz: ????
<Treenaks> xset b off :)
<fabbione> 
<mdz> you people are crazy
<fabbione> ^^this ring a bell
<mdz> no
<fabbione> it should...
<mdz> I'm talking about debian/rules which would do echo ^G
<mdz> I thought it was apache
<fabbione> no no
<fabbione> last i did was to use figlet to tell users to die .. or something like that
<fabbione> can't remember
<mdz> maybe openssl
<Mithrandir> hoary i on releases.u.c
<mdz> something which got a lot of security updates :-P
<Kamion> ok, it's up
<mdz>  /hoary/ needs to say "preview" somewhere in big bold letters
<mdz> in the title as well
<mdz> right now it just says 5.04 and looks final
<sabdfl> yes, need a <title> and <h1> that include PREVIEW
<Kamion> mdz: title changed, better suggestions welcome
<mdz> maybe we should call the preview 5.03 :-)
<sabdfl> mdz: did think of that
<sabdfl> i think 5.04-preview is better
<Kamion> hm, that <h1> looks crap
<sabdfl> t's good enough for me
<sabdfl> anything else to be done?
<mdz> sabdfl: should I change the announcement text to say 5.04-preview instead of "5.04 Preview"?
<sabdfl> Kamion: could you update the ReleaseChecklist with notes from today's glitches?
<sabdfl> mdz: yes please
<Kamion> downgraded the other headings a notch
<mdz> I made sure that the line doesn't wrap between 5.04 and preview :-)
<mdz> ok, done
<sabdfl> Kamion: better. take back what i said about text-boy
<Kamion> :-)
<sabdfl> are we ready?
<mdz> ready
<sabdfl> Kamion: ?
<Kamion> sabdfl: I've updated my to-do list to fix the md5summing, I think everything else was OK
<Kamion> ready
<sabdfl> mdz: nazhmitye pazhalusta balshoi krasnuyu knopku.
<mdz> is that zulu for "send the damn email already"?
<sabdfl> russian
<Kamion> looks Russian to me
<Kamion> use Cyrillic script :-)
<sabdfl> please press the big red button
<Kamion> LOL
<mdz> sent
<sabdfl> 'cept i think my cases are all shot to hell
<sabdfl> well done everybody
<sabdfl> !! w00t (sorry fabbione)
<fabbione> ahhaha
<fabbione> why sorry with me?
<sabdfl> mdz: would you like to announce to the irc channels too?
<Kamion> hm, actually, yeah, there are a couple of releasechecklist items
<sabdfl> ok
<mdz> will do
<sabdfl> Kamion: while you're there, could you put the artwork one week before in UPPER CASE and BOLD?
<mdz> waiting for the announcement to show up in the list archive so I can link to it
<Kamion> sabdfl: absolutely :-)
<Kamion> sabdfl: done
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> now, where are those bandwidth charts :-)
<fabbione> ehhehe
<ogra_live> elmo prmised them to me in mataro....havent seen them yet though :)
<mdz> sabdfl: I can get to them
<sabdfl> mdz: privmsg acess details?
<thom> is there anything sysadminy required for the release?
<Kamion> thom: not sysadminy, but would you mind verifying the preview jigdos?
<thom> sure, it'll take about 5 mins
<thom> Kamion, amd64 jigdo iso worked fine
<Kamion> cool, thanks
<thom> powerpc iso is building as i speak
<thom> Kamion: x86, powerpc jigdos look good
<Kamion> thom: thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-22
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Burgundavia] : Saturday 12 March 22:00 UTC: Doc Team Meeting -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting20050312 || Tuesday 22 March 2005 22:00 UTC -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda || Tuesday 15 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || Thursday 31 March 2005 17:30 UTC http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ub
<titus`> hello
<dholbach> hai
<zul> hey dholbach 
<hsprang> hy :)
<dholbach> hey you two, how are you? :-)
<hsprang> I'm fine, my flu is finally really gone today :)
<dholbach> oh good to hear :-)
<hsprang> i didn't tell here because there was no danger for anybody  :)
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> i think you told me in #u-m 
<hsprang> ok.  but anyway, that was the past :)
<hsprang> #u-m is a funny abbreviation when talking here at #u-m :)
<dholbach> haha, you're right
<zul> hey mdz 
<mdz> hi
<Kamion> can we have a reminder of the agenda URL?
<dholbach> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryDevelopmentMeeting20050311
<jani> hi all
<Nafallo> hi! :-)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Friday 11 March 17:00 UTC: Hoary Development Meeting -- https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryDevelopmentMeeting20050311 || Saturday 12 March 22:00 UTC: Doc Team Meeting -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentationTeamMeeting20050312 || Tuesday 15 March 2005 20:00 UTC: Technical Board -- http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda. || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> I removed the CC meeting and the MOTU meeting because they're both some time away, and the topic was full
<Mithrandir> can we please do the ooo2 stuff first?  I have to leave in ~1 hour and would like to contribute on that (given that it has "amd64" in the description)
<sivang> when is the development meeting?
<mdz> Mithrandir: funny you should ask
<dholbach> in 45 seconds
<mdz> Mithrandir: because doko wants to do it +30 minutes, because he'll be late
<sivang> dholbach: ok, thanks
<sivang> dholbach: is there a meeting now? (please excuse me)
<Mithrandir> mdz: bah, ok, if we can do it in 30 minutes and try to make it quick, that works for me.
<mdz> doko: ping?
<mdz> ok, let's begin
<mdz> is everyone here?
* pitti waves
* mvo nods
<dholbach> ogra not yet
<Kamion> here
<dholbach> but questions regarding universe are later
<Keybuk> here
<dholbach> so i hope he turns up before
<thom> here
* sivang waves as well
<mdz> fabbione: elmo thom daniels amu: jbailey doko
<elmo> here
<fabbione> here
<seb128> hey
<mdz> doko said he may be late due to cebit; pinging amu and jbailey
<haggai> doko is next to me setting up network
<jbailey>  I'm here. =)
<mdz> haggai: is his ETA still 1730?
<dholbach> hi doko 
<mdz> doko_: thanks
<lamont> her
<lamont> e
<mdz> doko_: is amu with you also?
<doko_> no
<haggai> amu isn't at cebit
<pitti> Hi ogra
<sivang> hey ogra 
<mdz> ok, so let's begin
<ogra> hi, pumount just hardlocked my system :(
<mdz> we'll skip ahead to oo.o2 since Mithrandir needs to leave
<mdz> haggai: would like your confirmation on this stuff as well
<pitti> ogra: ibreakify
<haggai> righty
<mdz> my understanding is that we have three issues to address: Java/Help, amd64 support, and bugs
<haggai> doko & I have just been talking about java and ant
<mdz> any conclusions?
<pitti> mdz: not ia64?
<ogra> argh, pitti, youre right, i forgot that i used the 2.6.11 snapshot for testing.... sorry for the noise
<mdz> pitti: not for hoary
<haggai> we may have a workaround (thanks to rene) using libant instead of ant, which is already possible to get into main
<mdz> pitti: if it happens, great, if not, we are still OK
<jbailey> Thibaut claims OOo works on ia64 now.
<mdz> jbailey: 1.1.x
<Kamion> jbailey: right, for OOo1
<doko_> libant's build-deps are installable in hoary as well
<mdz> libant as in libantX.Y-java?
<Kamion> I assume we aren't going for OOo2 by default?
<mdz> or is there a libant in C or something?
<wasabi_> hi.
<haggai> Kamion: sabdfl is keen to get OOo2 in, and Novell are doing it too
<mdz> Kamion: sabdfl wants us to make the attempt
<Mithrandir> jbailey: OOo1 works on ia64, yes.  I ran it off t-bone's server last night.
<doko_> libant's dependency list is a much shorter than the one for ant
<wasabi_> doko, did you check out the OTHER libant?
<Kamion> ok
<wasabi_> yeah.
<wasabi_> the one for ant includes non-free pieces.
<mdz> haggai: ant is used purely at build-time, right?
<doko_> the patched one from fedora?
<haggai> mdz: yes
<mdz> haggai: to generate the help data?
* wasabi_ jumped in in the middle.
<haggai> mdz: no, for docbook/xml filters and scripting
<haggai> mdz: ie not essential
<haggai> mdz: but it would still need work to patch those out
<mdz> haggai: we have docbook/xml tools in main already
<mdz> what would the methodology be for ant?
<haggai> mdz: and if we're going to do work it would be imo better to do it on ant rather than patch OOo
<mdz> build it and its deps using gcj, or use gij, or what?
<wasabi_> What's up with this discussion about ant?
<wasabi_> I have packages half made that fix Ant up.
<mdz> wasabi_: see agenda
<mdz> wasabi_: we've skipped to the end due to scheduling
<wasabi_> #Other business?
<haggai> mdz: current debian libant builds using jikes & sablevm
<thom> wasabi_: OOo2
<wasabi_> and does not produce /usr/bin/ant
<wasabi_> Ahhhh.
<mdz> wasabi_: this is an Ubuntu development meeting, the agenda is at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryDevelopmentMeeting20050311
<haggai> wasabi_: that's ok I said we have a workaround for /usr/bin/ant
<wasabi_> I am a bit afriad about doing Ant wrong. It's not just there for OOo.
<mdz> what's the short list of tasks to get it building using the ant approach?
<haggai> wasabi_: ? I'm only trying to find a short term soln
<wasabi_> k
<haggai> mdz: get libant in main and then build OOo with it
<wasabi_> http://kyoto.larvalstage.net/ubuntu/hoary/ant_1.6.2-2ubuntu0.dsc
<doko_> mdz: libant1.6, not the current  1.5 in hoary
<wasabi_> ^ work in progress
<mdz> haggai: a bit less short than that.  :-) what's involved in getting libant into main, and how do we use libant in place of ant?
<mdz> have you already attempted to use libant in the build?
<wasabi_> mdz, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/JavaPackagingProgress
<haggai> getting into main: fix broken build
<wasabi_> Look at the first entry.
<haggai> *** Semantic Error: You need to modify your classpath, sourcepath, bootclasspath, and/or extdirs setup. Jikes could not find package "java.lang" in:
<haggai> etc
<wasabi_> Ant has a lot of deps, which need to be in main too.
<haggai> rene has got OOo building with a patch he authored for libant
<wasabi_> Almost all of Ant's depends dependend on Ant themselves. ;)
<mdz> wasabi_: that's just bookkeeping; we need to establish the plan for actually doing the work
<haggai> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/ooo-build/patches/src680/ant-only-main-classes-hack.diff?rev=1.2&view=markup is the hack at the moment.
<wasabi_> Well, I mean. All that needs to be done is to start pulling apart all those dependencies one after another.
<wasabi_> What is the VM goal?
<mdz> there is none
<mdz> the goal is getting oo.o2 building
<haggai> what isn't yet clear is what to do about the needing gcj >> 3.3
<wasabi_> Ooo requires a VM, rigth?
<jbailey> There's a status update from yesterday on the Fedora list (provided by Robilad) for building on gcj: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.java/149
<wasabi_> And Ant requires one to build. So we need to pick on. Me and jbailey have been planning to use gcj4 (because it works)
<mdz> wasabi_: <haggai> mdz: current debian libant builds using jikes & sablevm
<mdz> haggai: which part of this needs gcj >> 3.3?
<mdz> and we do have gcj-4.0 available if needed
<haggai> mdz: there are several bugs that OOo+java triggers in earlier gcjs
<haggai> mdz: I know its available, problem is we then may need gcc/++ 3.4 or 4.0 too
<mdz> haggai: what about jikes+sablevm?
<mdz> this is very much sounding like more work than diking out ant
<mdz> as a temporary workaround
<wasabi_> uh huh.
<jbailey> sablevm will probably need an update to make sure it has all the latest GUI stuff.
<haggai> mdz: for OOo?  You really don't want to try new toolchains with OOo at this stage
<haggai> mdz: or do you mean for ant?
<mdz> haggai: I mean for both
<doko_> according to haggai, all C++ libs needed for OO are included in the sources, so C++ ABI problems shouldn't be an issue.
<mdz> getting ant, gcj, etc. all into harmony sounds like a better long-term solution, but what we need at this stage is more along the "short term hack" lines
<haggai> mdz: ant is built with jikes+sablevm in debian, so I was assuming it wouldn't be a lot to use with ubuntu and was such a short hack.  I didn't mean jikes+sablevm for OOo build
<wasabi_> Is anybody aware of the the Javaintegration wiki page and our plans for Java?
<wasabi_> Just don't want to duplicate work here.
<haggai> wasabi_: we're looking for a short, very quick, hack
<mdz> I'm weighing "get libant and its dependency chain working with jikes+sablevm or gcj, may require updating one or both, modify oo.o build to use libant, get gcj/etc. working to the point of being able to drive this part of the oo.o2 build, etc." vs. "replace the libant portion of the build with a shell script"
<wasabi_> Okay. I get it.
<mdz> wasabi_: we have a very specific, short-term goal here.  If hte JavaIntegration plan can do this within the next couple of days, great, if not, it isn't an option
<wasabi_> I would then suggest making a temporary libant just for Ooo and building it with ecj-bootstrap + gcj3.
<wasabi_> =)
<doko_> mdz: so, recording the gcj/gij calls made from ant, and "replay" them with the shell script?
<wasabi_> ecj-bootstrap is in.. universe right now. It is however a very simple package... and can probably be done with gcj3
<mdz> haggai: what about pregenerating the docs?
<wasabi_> oh wow. that's more hacky than I wanted to get into. ;)
<mdz> doko_: I mean using the existing tools to do docbook/xml operations, rather than java
<mdz> eliminating the java dep entirely
<mdz> feasible?
<haggai> mdz: hmm maybe we're not talkiung about the same feature.  This is import/export support for docbook and xml formats from within OOo
<mdz> haggai: hmm, apparently we were not
<mdz> haggai: I thought you meant docbook/xml transformations for the help system data
<haggai> mdz: ah :)
<wasabi_> Can somebody tell me what Ant features are required for OOo?
<wasabi_> I can check to see if I can whip something up.
<haggai> mdz: right, no it's a special tool written in java to transform the help sources
<mdz> oh, nice. ooffice2 crashes on startup for me now
<haggai> mdz: if all we are interested in is the help docs, we can do this another way without enabling java in OOo itself
<mdz> haggai: would this be a regression from 1.1.3?
<amu> rehi
<haggai> mdz: no
<mdz> haggai: forget it, then, let's not enable that feature
<mdz> haggai: and only worry about the docs
<haggai> mdz: (we went over these things in that thread between sabdfl & I that you were cced on)
<mdz> haggai: yes, and now we're back to where I thought we were at the start of this conversation
<mdz> which is that we're talking about building the documentation
<haggai> in that case I read Java/help wrong..
* haggai looks at help build scripts again
<mdz> haggai: in what part of the source tree does this stuff live?
<haggai> mdz: xmlhelp is the tool
<haggai> mdz: has rather a lot of dependencies :(
<haggai> xmlhelp :       ucbhelper XmlSearch sablot jut unoil berkeleydb
<haggai> so that's not going to be trivially easy to split out
<mdz> ok, there's more to talk about here than I thought
<mdz> we need to split this out into a separate meeting
<mdz> haggai, doko: when can we reconvene?
<doko_> mdz: one moment ...
<mdz> Mithrandir: the amd64-relevant bit is determining whether we can build it natively, or if it needs the oo.o2-amd64 treatment, not much more thana that
<Mithrandir> I've begun looking on amd64 and powerpc wrt ooo2, but so far it has had conflicting build-deps.  seb128 has sorted that out and is uploading {now,shortly}.  amd64 ooo2 is rumored to build, but being amazingly brittle (on amd64)
<Mithrandir> (build with a few patches)
<Mithrandir> mdz: sabdfl has asked me to take a look at it and give him feedback with cc to you.
<seb128> Mithrandir: I've uploaded eds 
<mdz> ok
<Mithrandir> as I haven't actually built it myself yet, I can't say anything about it's brittleness or not.
<mdz> doko_, haggai: get back to me with possible meeting times
<mdz> we need to move on
<Mithrandir> so "maybe"
<mdz> fabbione: kernel
<haggai> mdz: ok
<fabbione> yes
<Mithrandir> but I would be conservative and say no for now.
<mdz> inotify or dnotify for hoary?
<fabbione> default: dnotify
<fabbione> inotify optional as bootparameter
<fabbione> patches have been cleaned up in -26
* koke 's going to try his new wireless card :)
<fabbione> to be more robust
<mdz> seb128: is there some other way to address the bugs which were fixed by inotify?
<mdz> iirc, the "volume icons not appearing" stuff was fixed by dnotify->inotify, and has now regressed
<seb128> nop
<seb128> ?
<seb128> that's the other way IIRC, volumes icons should work fine with dnotify
<tseng> they do
<fabbione> mdz: inotify is a better way to do dnotify
<tseng> inotify doesnt break it, gamin does
<seb128> inotify with the "busy drives" issue
<fabbione> it doesn't fix anything
<tseng> gamin fix doesnt work on its inotify backend
<fabbione> it is suppose to improve performance
<seb128> fabbione: it does
<mdz> the "busy drives" issue was worked around in gamin by special-casing /media, yes?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> but
<seb128> fabbione: no need to have a fd on the device to monitor stuff, so no drives locked
<tseng> inotify in gamin cant use polling special case
<tseng> so we have regression on volume icons showing up
<mdz> ok, so in fact it is fixed for dnotify only
<tseng> but no locking of the device as with dnotify before fix
<Kamion> so in fact we're just better off with dnotify all round?
<tseng> Kamion: yep.
<tseng> until gamin gets real support anyway
<fabbione> so you want me to remove dnotify as well?
* Kamion looks at fabbione
<seb128> no no, why ?
<tseng> erm? I think dnotify should be default atm
<fabbione> ah ok
<tseng> works well with latest gamin
<mdz> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4597
<fabbione> i misread your sentence Kamion
<mdz> that is the bug I was thinking of
<mdz> but apparently the user was mistaken
<mdz> though I'm not entireyl convinced
<tseng> mdz: no
<mdz> there are reports of the icons not appearing
<tseng> mdz: we still get that with gamin + inotify
<seb128> mdz: that's fixed by switching to dnotify
<mdz> but the user reported it with -25.2, which has inotify disabled
<pitti> mdz: I have heaps of other bugs related to this issue
<pitti> mdz: so the current situation is really broken
<mdz> pitti: can you group them together somehow?
<seb128> mdz: yeah, I've reassigned some of them to pitti
<pitti> mdz: I can't close them as duplicates, but I can do a metabug
<ogra> mdz: there are also reports of icons not dissapearing after unmount
<mdz> pitti: that would be helpful
<tseng> ok can I explain breifly again? to avoid any confusion
<tseng> about the bug mdz posted
<mdz> since inotify is a bust, we need to find some other way to fix those problems, they affect many users
<tseng> the bug posted affected all gamin users at one point. it was fixed by falling back to polling /media/*
<mdz> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6088
<pitti> so we can use polling?
<tseng> gamins inotify backend *doesnt support* polling
<tseng> so the bug still exists on inotify kernels
<seb128> forget about inotify
<pitti> tseng: I mean with dnotify?
<seb128> we run dnotify atm
<tseng> its fixed for everyone else
<tseng> or, fixed for all my systems
<mdz> there are still an awful lot of bugs appearing around this area, as pitti says
<pitti> mdz: however, they might be from the time when we still had inotify and similar
<seb128> yeah, we need to figure what bugs happen with dnotify and gamin 0.0.25
<mdz> pitti: when you've collected a list, please work with tseng and seb128 and see which ones are still valid
<pitti> mdz: most of them were reassigned to me today /yesterday, I did not yet have time to evaulate
<pitti> mdz: I'll do
<mdz> and if the remainder are significant, we can decide what to do
<mdz> moving on
<pitti> mdz: I think we can defer this some days, then I can actually evaluate them
<mdz> the other kernel item, we have occasionally discussed adding a kernel to the i386 CD
<fabbione> Kamion: what kernel do we ship on cd?
<mdz> fabbione: -386
<mdz> only
<mdz> which means no higmem support, and no SMP support
<pitti> we have ~70 MB
<mdz> pitti: how much for the remaining langpacks?
<pitti> in comparision to ppc and amd64
<fabbione> i think that either we add 686 and k7 or none
<pitti> mdz: ppc would allow 42 MB for langpacks
<mdz> Kamion: can we do per-arch germination of ship?
<fabbione> otherwise users will be discriminated
<fabbione> but hounestly i really prefer to save space on CD
<mdz> fabbione: -686 works on both
<elmo> mdz: eh?
<fabbione> mdz: nope...
<mdz> herbert says otherwise
<fabbione> not here at least
<Kamion> sorry, catching up, one sec
<Kamion> -686 does not work on both as far as I know
<mdz> the last time we spoke about it, he said that it was not guaranteed in general, but that it was currently true
<fabbione> mdz: that makes it an non option for me
<fabbione> we so do NOT want to get bugs because there is the wrong kernel installed
<Kamion> mdz: adding a kernel is trivial, and I think a good idea; some minor base-installer improvements are needed to make it work well (i.e. proper fallback ordering)
<Kamion> but I already have those in progress
<pitti> 70 MB would be enough for 2 additional kernels?
<Kamion> I see no reason not to add both 686 and k7, frankly
<pitti> SMP?
<fabbione> Kamion: space
<Kamion> no
<mdz> Kamion: I do; they're huge
<Kamion> we already have to reserve that space!
<Kamion> because powerpc requires three kernels
<Kamion> so we have to reserve the space arch-independently anyway
<mdz> Kamion: I was asking whether we could use per-arch items in ship
<Kamion> mdz: we already do per-arch germination of ship
<mdz> because we may NOT be egalitarian about this
<pitti> can a SMP kernel run on a non-SMP machine?
<mdz> if we have room for more language support on i386, we may do that
<ogra> sure
<T-Bone> pitti: yes
<thom> pitti: yes
<fabbione> pitti: not always
<jbailey> pitti: Generally.
<mdz> pitti: yes, but with a performance penalty
<T-Bone> what mdz said
<mdz> I have no idea of the numbers
<T-Bone> depends on the arch
<fabbione> smp kernel on sparc doesn't boot on a  UP box
<mdz> fabbione: what about highmem in -386?
<pitti> T-Bone: I mean 386
<T-Bone> can amount to a few percents in general
<mdz> is that possible?
<pitti> we don't have additional space on ppc/amd64 anyway
<lamont> nonSMP allows you to stub out the mutual-exclusion that you need in SMP.. depending on the architecture, that can be anywhere from 0+ to large
<fabbione> mdz: iirc there were several reasons for not doing it
<lamont> (large == <10%)
<Kamion> pitti: amd64 isn't so bad
<Kamion> but mdz's right, we could decide to make language support asymmetric
<mdz> pitti: what is the total size of the remaining langpacks which are not already in ship+live?
<fabbione> mdz: let me check.. one sec
<pitti> Kamion: oh right, mixed that up with ia64
<pitti> mdz: 45 MB
<Kamion> mdz: note that the live CDs are currently maxed out due to the addition of WinFOSS
<pitti> mdz: (not including the support packages)
<Kamion> mdz: amd64 is right at the limit; i386 is about 20MB below
<pitti> mdz: but we only have about 42 MB left for ppc
<pitti> mdz: we miss by a few MB
<Kamion> and amd64 tends to grow
<mdz> Kamion: that's based on the Warty amount of winfoss, or the full set?
<pitti> mdz: however, we could strip a few packages to get them
<Kamion> I've asked Henrik to cut it down a little
<dholbach> dumb question: are packages on the CD already using bzip2 compression?
<Kamion> mdz: that's current, I added WinFOSS this morning
<hno73> I'm currently uploading a win-foss pack shrunk by 7mb
<mdz> I don't mind shipping the Warty amount at all; that was ~half the size
<Kamion> dholbach: some are, but bzip2 has a speed penalty
<dholbach> Kamion: shouldnt it be taken into account?
<Kamion> dholbach: we have done it for some packages based on what seemed sensible
<hno73> I should be able to get out a further 3-4mb wihout removing more apps
<Kamion> where it was most effective
<Kamion> it's a speed/size tradeoff
<ogra> dholbach: unpacking may take ages on some systems
<fabbione> mdz: it should be possible to enable it. but we will need to check it very carefully
<dholbach> well since we're short on size...
<mdz> fabbione: ok, that doesn't sound very good for a post-preview change
<Kamion> dholbach: size isn't everything :-)
<ogra> heh
<fabbione> mdz: but my memory recalls something bad about it
<dholbach> Kamion : haha :-)
<fabbione> mdz: i just do not remember what
<mdz> compressing the -686+ and -k7+ kernels with bzip2 is not a bad option
<mdz> they will only be installed on reasonably modern systems
<fabbione> mdz: yes it is
<Kamion> hno73: what are the app differences between what was on Warty and what's in Hoary?
<fabbione> mdz: we did test them and we gain 0
<fabbione> mdz: the only package gaining was -doc-
<mdz> _0_?
<hno73> Upgraded versions and PDFCreator removed
<Kamion> dholbach: we compress all the language packs with bzip2; they exhibited a substantial gain
<fabbione> mdz: compressing the images with bzip2, we lost around 5/8% on the image
<dholbach> Kamion: i can easily imagine
<Kamion> hm, so how come Warty's was half the size of Hoary's according to mdz?
<fabbione> we did this test when bzip2 was brand new and shiny
<mdz> Kamion: I'm not sure what hoary's is at this point
<mdz> Kamion: what I do know is that for warty, we removed things
<mdz> that astronomy program, e.g.
<Kamion> ah; is hno73 up to date with those removals?
<dholbach> gtranslator as well
<mdz> I was asking earlier whether we are using the same set of stuff for hoary
<mdz> mizar:[/space/cache/apt/archives]  dpkg --fsys-tarfile linux-image-2.6.10-4-k7_2.6.10-26_i386.deb | gzip -9v >/dev/null; dpkg --fsys-tarfile linux-image-2.6.10-4-k7_2.6.10-26_i386.deb | bzip2 -9 -v >/dev/null
<mdz>  62.9%
<mdz>   (stdin):  3.018:1,  2.650 bits/byte, 66.87% saved, 44748800 in, 14825047 out.
<mdz> fabbione: 62.9% vs. 66.87%
<fabbione> mdz: the images were big and i am sure about it.
<fabbione> i can retest it if you want
<hno73> We removed Celestia, etc. for Warty, but it hasn't been put back in
<doko_> mdz: we have to leave the booth around 6:45 UTC, Chris will be available tomorrow 5pm UTC for an hour or so. That time is ok for me as well (I'm at home tomorrow almost the whole time). Disscussing the help build with haggai, it looks like prebuilding the docs and including these in the package might be a short term solution as well.
<fabbione> mdz: and you need to check using make-kpkg because it does a lot of weird magic to build the deb
<fabbione> compressing that way is not the same apparently
<hno73> I've built the Hoary Win-FOSS from a Warty CD content source, just updating stuff
<hno73> Warty size 115MB, current Hoary size 108MB
<fabbione> mdz: anyway.. HIGHMEM on i386 for me is a too big risk right now
<fabbione> and adding new kernels.. up to you but do not rely on 686 works on k7-smp
<fabbione> or stuff like that
<Kamion> I don't think changing base-installer to assume 686 works on k7 would be a good idea, certainly
<Kamion> that code ought to be safe, or it comes back to bite you
<amu> Win-FOSS, we add it also to kubuntu?  
<fabbione> Kamion: +1
<Kamion> in any case, the improvement appears to be 1.8MB for bzip2 of -k7 at the moment; doesn't really seem like a significant win
<Kamion> amu: if you like, but I'm not sure you have room at the moment
<pitti> mdz: I'd rather strip some more packages, that will give us ~10 MB
<Kamion> amu: you probably just about have room on i386
<amu> Kamion: i would like, cause it soo cool, btw. ppc is 610mb atm
<pitti> mdz: e. g. dpkg is a hog, and will be rebuilt anyway (hopefully) to fix the Replaces: bug
<Kamion> amu: WinFOSS only goes on i386 and maybe amd64
<hno73> amu: I can always make a version sans OOo
<hno73> that'll work
<Kamion> amu: ok, Kubuntu CD changes are pretty much by request of you guys FWIW
<T-Bone> fabbione: just my 2cents but I bet that users with machine having enough ram to need HIGHMEM will update their kernel to use one corresponding exactly to their CPU anyway...
<amu> Kamion: i386 537, amd64, 557mb
<fabbione> T-Bone: that too
<Kamion> amu: it won't currently fit on amd64, but I'll add it to your i386 live CD
<T-Bone> (it'd be rather silly to run i386 kernel on a Dual Xeon P4... :)
<amu> Kamion: hno73: i would like it, let's delay it, till we get an prefinal iso 
<Kamion> amu: (better to do these things earlier rather than later in my experience, but whatever you like)
<amu> Kamion: ok, that's an better solution, pls do it like this
<amu> Kamion: ack
<fabbione> brb
<dholbach> couldnt there be script checking if bzip2 saves at least x% and then use bzip2? so users with an old box wouldnt have the pain generally?
<hno73> amu: email me about the Win-FOSS stuff for Kubuntu and we'll work something out
<amu> i would say, i've also some problems with the default kernel, my ltop has 2 gig ram, no prob for me maybe for others 
<amu> hno73: cool, phone is already prefered? ;)
<mvo> desktop now?
<fabbione> re
* sivang barely has net access, down/up streams of 20Kb/s :-(
<T-Bone> sivang: that's way enough for irc ;o)
<amu> hehe :P
<Treenaks> sivang: don't complain, I IRC using GPRS sometimes
<sivang> T-Bone: yeah, but just about for that :)
<Kamion> ok, I think we're done with kernel
<sivang> Treenaks: god, what's the specs from such a connection/
<Kamion> g-a-i .desktop database
<Kamion> who's responsible for that?
<mvo> Kamion: is jdub around?
<dholbach> he said he was too tired on the list
<mvo> Kamion: ross and jdub, but ross is on vacation
<Kamion> no, he's gone to sleep
<fabbione> mvo: no
<sivang> doesn't seem so
<Kamion> mvo: do you know the current status?
<mvo> Kamion: I branched ross archive to add i18n updates and small fixes
<Kamion> amu: ok, you'll get WinFOSS on the next Kubuntu live-i386 build
<dholbach> Kamion: jdub said: 1) g-a-i data drop to be delivered this weekend.
<mvo> but I don't know if jdub wants to do the .desktop stuff himself
<amu> Kamion: rock
<mvo> dholbach: ah, cool
<dholbach> reference: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005473.html
<mvo> ok, I'll contact jdub 
<mvo> evince?
<Kamion> ok, I guess that satisfies that agenda item
<sivang> mvo: what's in it for doing the .desktop files?
<mvo> sivang: later please :)
<sivang> mvo: oops right 
<dholbach> evince rocks, but somebody said it had problems with CUPS integration, but i don't know if it's exactly true
<thom> personally, i think we should go for evince 
<ogra> is evince matured enough ?
<Kamion> seb128: opinion on evince?
<seb128> evince is pretty, use gnome printing, is localized
<sivang> seb128: misses some fonts no?
<Kamion> there was some talk about problems with large PDF files
<seb128> sivang: ?
<pitti> and sucks for large documents :-)
<elmo> "iz pretty".  you sold me ;-)
<seb128> elmo: look on xpdf, that's ugly
<thom> pitti: only for you
<sivang> seb128: I recalled jdub saying something about it
<sivang> seb128: I may be wrong
<pitti> seb128: would it be possible to sanitize the thumbnail generation?
<thom> sivang: that's gpdf
<elmo> seb128: does it have gpdf's problem with fonts?
<Kamion> oh, I wonder what happened to mdz
<seb128> sivang: if you have evidence to point, do it, but don't come now with random idea :p
<elmo> and/or only displaying 1/5 of the docs xpdf does
<ogra> elmo: it uses xpdf afaik
<elmo> ok
<seb128> elmo: nop
<seb128> it is as good as xpdf
<sivang> seb128: ok, sorry 
<fabbione> Kamion: when the elder are off... the mice party!
<seb128> pitti: probably
<seb128> pitti: we can generate them only if the side pane is open
<seb128> or add a gconf key
<sivang> then what's the issue here? it looks far better and has much better and user freindly ui
<pitti> seb128: lower priority thread
<seb128> upstream are threading it for that, but that's not for hoary probably
<pitti> otherwise thumbs up for evince
<seb128> pitti: it's not threaded atm
<jani> it doesn't seem to have 'recent documents'
<mvo> nor does xpdf?
<seb128> jani: xpdf neither
<jani> and I think case sensitive search
<sivang> pitti++
<jani> oh, was comparing to acroread ;)
<Kamion> ok, general opinion seems to be in favour of evince, if the thumbnail generation is made faster
<jani> otherwise really nioce
<seb128> jani: the current default is xpdf
<jani> oh better than xpdf by all means
<Kamion> but would like to wait to see what mdz says about switching at this late stage
<seb128> Kamion: thumbnail is not really an issue imho
<mvo> Kamion: ++
<Kamion> let's move on
<Kamion> gksu
<ogra> ugly behavior....
<Kamion> mvo: has the gksu issue on the agenda been fixed by your upload today?
<seb128> nop
<mvo> Kamion: not, not all issues
<mvo> some
<Kamion> what are the remaining issues?
<seb128> do we want to grab the keyboard mouse or not ?
<mvo> the big problem is that it can go into the background and then grabs the mouse 
<ogra> it would be ok if the pointer wouldnt get stuck ...
<pitti> seb128: why should it grab?
<seb128> there is some bug open saying that we should not grab them ...
* pitti favors non-grab and appear in the foreground
<ogra> i often have the angle pointer instead of the arrow locked..... 
<Kamion> I think you have to grab
<mvo> the user clicks on sth that needs gksu and then starts something else. it may happen that the gksudo window comes up, then the other window comes up (over gksudo) and then gksudo grabs the pointer and users are very confused
<Kamion> surely
<seb128> pitti: I don't see a real reason to do it, basically kov says that's to not get something getting up and grabing the password
<seb128> but with the new metacity ...
<mvo> ogra: angle-pointer should be fixed by the upload today
<ogra> yay
<Kamion> not everyone is using metacity ...
<seb128> right
<pitti> Kamion: other apps can certainly steal the password even with grabbing
<seb128> but is "random app can get the focus" a security issue ?
<Nafallo> we should not grab it. shouldn't users became confused and start looking when nothing upons by clicking something?
<Nafallo> s/upon/open/
<pitti> seb128: why can't the window appear in the foreground, always?
* sivang thought it was logical to do that right now, since asking a password is enough important to block since it's done.
<mvo> pitti: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7432
<ogra> Nafallo: they will hit the reset button i guess
<mvo> it's the focus stealing stuff 
<sivang> s/since/until/
<seb128> mvo: if you interact on something during the starting time metacity don't steal your focus
<Kamion> pitti: it helps a bit, though; certainly ssh-askpass-gnome grabs keyboard and pointer for that reason
<Nafallo> ogra: they would if they thinks input devices hung to ;-)
<Kamion> mdz sent me an SMS saying that he's involuntarily offline; we'll keep going
<pitti> Kamion: okay, I would at least require either grab _and_ foreground, or nothing
<ogra> Nafallo: every input is locked
<seb128> pitti: right, if we grab we need to fix the foreground
<pitti> Kamion: but I don't see why inter-process-communication should be blocked by keyboard/mouse grabbing?
<seb128> the question is to know if we want to grab or not
<Kamion> IMHO gksu should grab the X server
<Kamion>  * There is only two run-time options: if you set the environment variable
<Kamion>  * "GNOME_SSH_ASKPASS_GRAB_SERVER=true" then gnome-ssh-askpass will grab
<Kamion>  * the X server. If you set "GNOME_SSH_ASKPASS_GRAB_POINTER=true", then the
<Kamion>  * pointer will be grabbed too. These may have some benefit to security if
<Kamion>  * you don't trust your X server. We grab the keyboard always.
<Kamion> Nafallo: there'll be a password window in the foreground waiting for input; it will be obvious
<pitti> so the only sane solution is grab+foreground
<Nafallo> hmm, me actually likes being able to open synaptic on desk #1 and when done loading change desktop and open other stuff before going back and type in password.
<Nafallo> Kamion: yea, I know :-)
<Nafallo> btw, the final decision is that it should have borders?
<seb128> loading is that long for you ?
<Kamion> there seem to be clear security benefits to grabbing the X server and keyboard while requesting a password
<seb128> what kind of box do you have ?
<lamont> Kamion: definitely
<pitti> Kamion: then the only solution seems to be clear
<seb128> Nafallo: 
<mvo> the problem is to teach gksu to be in the foreground all the time
<Nafallo> seb128: nope, I just like to start all tasks I need early as possible to save battery time :-).
<sivang> Kamion++
<Nafallo> seb128: amd64 1,6GHz, 1GB ram, laptop
<seb128> Nafallo: you have a -g option to gksudo to not grab the events
<Kamion> how about gtk_window_set_keep_above()?
<Nafallo> seb128: ahh, kewl. didn't knew that. not an issue for power-users then :-).
<seb128> ok, let's keep the grabing and fix the issue
<pitti> next point?
<Kamion> Documentation
<Nafallo> seb128: ++ in that case :-)
<Kamion> Yelp fixes needed for Hoary?
<seb128> mvo: I'll ping the metacity guys to know of to force the first plan/focus
<Kamion> jdub's mail sort of covered that
<sivang> Kamion: we need to make the docs more accessible form yelp toplevel
<seb128> Kamion: jdub is working on yelp issues with the yelp author
<sivang> Kamion: if jdub already managed with that, it's cool, I have researched about it and find only half of the solution
<Kamion> all right, that seems to be what jdub was talking about; he said he'd report this weekend or early next week
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005473.html
<Kamion> Help topics organization
<ogra> just for the record ^^^^
<Kamion> is this just a subset of the previous item, or is there more?
<ogra> nope, the previous
<seb128> dunno 
<Kamion> the new Ubuntu documentation is rather mixed in with stuff like the Fdutils FAQ at the moment
<ogra> oh, i thought the mail link
<Kamion> or the documentation of the GNU time command
<HiddenWolf> is this 'the meeting'? 
<sivang> Kamion: that was what I were talking about
<ogra> HiddenWolf yup
<sivang> Kamion: I thought that was what jdub going to fix
<Kamion> all right, then, next item
<Kamion> Screenshot updates to reflect artwork changes?
<Kamion> as I understand it, the Hoary artwork is not yet final, but somebody does need to take responsibility for updating screenshots
<Kamion> I don't see what we can do until the artwork's finalised, but it needs to be on a checklist somewhere
<dholbach> sounds good
<amu> Kamion: i started once a kind of QS Document .... 
<Kamion> by default, probably one for jdub; suggestions for good screenshots would probably be a good idea
<Kamion> amu: QS?
* sivang has 5.26 lag :-/
<amu> err QA
<ogra> Kamion QA
<dholbach> Kamion: u-users@ will love to send in screenshots ;-)
* mvo needs to leave now, will read log
<Kamion> mdz's ISP has lost all of Southern California; there is no ETA for it returning
<ogra> dholbach: but you will have to review them a lot (to make sure the right theme is used etc.)
<amu> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/QAtesting
<tseng> can we replace the gdm screenshot on the homepage? heh.
<thom> davyd's document here: http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-10/ is a good example of introducing new features and how to use screenshots
<Kamion> closer to the time, perhaps a -users survey would be appropriate
<sivang> Kamion: sounds like it does
<ogra> tseng: i think sabdfl wouldnt like that
<Kamion> yes, the GNOME 2.10 notes were very good at that
<ogra> yup
<tseng> you know davyd uses ubuntu, he might be up for the job :)
<Kamion> amu: ok, that seems very appropriate for later in the agenda
<Kamion> tseng: good idea; can somebody talk to him?
<thom> he just went to bed
<thom> i'll ping him later
<Kamion> there will be more than GNOME to cover
<Kamion> Content review
<Kamion> again, this is one that jdub said he would do
<Kamion> but please can everyone responsible for Hoary features review the release notes and other documentation
<seb128> k
<seb128> wb mdz
<Kamion> and send the documentation team updates for features they were responsible for
<Kamion> mdz: hello again, we're up to Content review
<jbailey> Is http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/docteam/release-notes/release-notes.html the best source for the release notes?
<enrico> jbailey: it is THE resource
<Kamion> jbailey: I believe the documentation team have svn too
<enrico> well, ok, svn
<ogra> mdz wb
<enrico> moment
<mdz> yay, back
<mdz> Kamion: can you paste me a log?
<mdz> yes, svn seems like a better source
<Kamion> enrico: all developers should be entirely capable of using that :-)
<Kamion> mdz: what was the last thing you saw?
<mdz> Kamion: --> silbs (~jane@host217-37-231-22.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
<mako> jbailey: it's updated about once a day
<mdz> 1755 UTC
<jbailey> mako: Cool, thanks.
<Kamion> mdz: mail ok? there's a lot of it
<enrico> ok, I'm in
<mdz> Kamion: yes
<enrico> The svn repo is https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk
<Kamion> mdz: sent
<enrico> I assume it's time for the docteam related things
<Kamion> enrico: thanks
<mako> jbailey: that is autobuilt daily and then updated (semi-automatically) when i wake up
<Kamion> enrico: we've been on documentation items for some time here
<enrico> that's autobuilt when I see commits and I can run a script, actually
<enrico> Kamion: you don't want to know where I was
<sivang> enrico: we talked about the positioning of ubuntu docs in yelp
<mako> enrico: sorry i missed some of it
* mako was supposed to alert enrico
<enrico> I was phoning my gf at a phone booth because UK trains made her miss the plane
<enrico> I could have used a ping
<Kamion> enrico: if you have anything to say belatedly about the first three doc items on the agenda, please go ahead
<sivang> enrico: jdub us supposed to report back about the yelp stuff, as Kamion noted.
<enrico> Yelp fixes needed: it depends on what's needed to put the docs where we want them
<enrico> Help topics organization: we all know where we want them, we have no idea how to get them there
<Kamion> does jdub have a clear spec from your team of where you want them to go?
<enrico> Screenshots updates: I'd put that together with content review
<enrico> Kamion: the best place would be right in the toc and not in a subcategory
<mdz> right
<mdz> the ubuntu-specific docs should be out in front
<enrico> froud: [topic: where to show the docs in yelp's TOC] 
<mdz> jdub says he has worked with yelp upstream on a solution for this
<sivang> enrico: where would that be? a catagory like "Ubuntu documentation" at toplevel doesn't make much sense, 
<seb128> jdub is working on that
<enrico> Kamion: however, we have no idea if that is possible at all
<mdz> but I have no details or ETA
<sivang> enrico: since it's an ubuntu system :-)
<mdz> enrico: it is possible
<enrico> mdz: oh, cool.  In that case, we'll wait for jdub to report what he found, right?
<doko_> a mapping between doc-base and yelp would be nice, so you don't have to change every doc package.
<doko_> ... to move the docs where you want it
<mdz> enrico: no, please don't wait for him, but be proactive
<enrico> so, ping him?
<mdz> enrico: ask him until you get an answer
<seb128> :)
<enrico> I hate doing that
<mdz> doko_: we already have that
<seb128> should do that for the desktop files for g-a-i too 
<Kamion> enrico: we don't have a lot of time to spare for waiting
<enrico> Yes, but we're talking about jdub, not someone external
<mdz> enrico: if you would prefer, you can work directly with yelp upstream
<mdz> enrico: that is fine with me
<enrico> Oh, well, I'll keep pinging him
<Kamion> like many of us, jdub has many things to do, which means some may get forgotten :-)
<enrico> mdz: it's fine I keep pinging jdub, thanks
* Kamion hands chair back to mdz, assuming he's caught up
<enrico> So, that was the easy part.  
<mdz> to jump back briefly
<enrico> The screenshots, they are difficult to translate, and there's little we can do as a docteam
<mdz> since I was talking to myself for a bit
<thom> doko_: that's just a case of changing the scrollkeeper mappings in doc-base and rerunning install-docs
<mdz> regarding the kernel stuff
<mdz> <mdz> Kamion: this seems to be the same general problem as with language-support-*
<mdz> <mdz> it would be nice to have some way to queue those packages for later installation, and inform the user
<mdz> <mdz> Mithrandir, mvo: an update-notifier hook?
<mdz> such a facility would allow us to queue packages, which are not on the CD, for later installation
<enrico> The FAQGuide, it should be reviewed and decided if we want it in Hoary or not, since most of it refers to Warty
<mdz> mvo: is it feasible to use the hook facility for this?
<enrico> I've contacted Chua Wen-Kiat about it, I wrote him twice, but he didn't answer me
<pitti> mdz: maybe for hoary it could be integrated into hte installer?
<Kamion> update-notifier hooks are per-user, I thought
<enrico> It's also true that Chua just came out of a bad case of *dengue fever*
<mdz> Kamion: there are both per-user and per-system hooks
<pitti> oh, cool
<Kamion> pitti: the installer has to give up at some point; if the network is not available, it needs to queue l-s-*
<dholbach> i'm not quite sure... i guess mvo just left for sports... i'll call him
<Kamion> it cannot keep running forever
<enrico> are we still talking about documentation?
<pitti> Kamion: no, I mean just like you currently handle the l-support packages
<Kamion> kernel stuff should be handled by base-installer, not by the second stage
<pitti> Kamion: if the user has no network, he would be doomed, but at least this would be an improvement that is not too invasive
<Kamion> if at all possible
<mdz> mvo: are you here?
<Kamion> mvo left
<pitti> Kamion: but that would rule out u-mgr at all
<Kamion> 18:34  * mvo needs to leave now, will read log
<mdz> gah
<ogra> enrico: this guide is awful and will need a hell of a lot of changes... i would suggest something new based on it for hoary.....(with help from the docteam and technical reviews)
<mdz> ok, we'll follow up on that later then
<enrico> ogra: what guide are you talking about?
<mdz> pitti: the issue is that l-s-* are so big
<ogra> enrico: ubuntuguied
<ogra> guide even
<mdz> too big for a reasonable download time during installation if the user does not have a fast connection
<pitti> mdz: issue related to which?
<pitti> mdz: ah, I see
<pitti> right
<enrico> ogra: ok.  It's actually not awful: it's one of the most quited and referenced pieces of documentation ever
<mdz> enrico: what is the status of the User Guide for Hoary?
<pitti> mdz: but modem-users generally don't install with network, or do they?
<enrico> s/quited/quoted/
<mdz> are we planning to use it at all?
<pitti> mdz: at least all my modem-using friends did install networkless
<dholbach> mdz: have him on the phone   he says update-notifier should be fine using synaptic --set-selections
<enrico> mdz: user's guide is stalled.  The goal was the release notes, the about ubuntu and the quick Guide
<enrico> The user's guide has been put aside, with doubts if we should work on the Gnome User's Guide instead
<mdz> pitti: seems like a 30-minute download on ISDN
<ogra> enrico: lets talk this over after the meeting, i have a lot objections telling users to edit config files without pointing out the danger
<mdz> enrico: I was talking about the gnome user guide
<mdz> I wasn't aware there was any other
<pitti> mdz: we shouldn't optimize for modem/isdn, they cannot download all this stuff anyway (same for kernel)
<enrico> mdz: John Hornbeck started a Ubuntu User's Guide
<mdz> seb128: do you know if upstream has updated the guide at all?  the one in yelp says 2.6 still
<dholbach> mdz: shall i ask him anything else?
<enrico> wrt the Gnome User's Guide, we never sorted out how to interact with upstream and stuff, so we focused on teh QuickGuide, which was an easier target
<seb128> mdz: hum, lemme check
<mdz> dholbach: ask him to send me email with the details, feasibility for hoary
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<enrico> now we have quite some infrastructure in place
<mdz> enrico: I think we should probably remove the gnome user's guide if it cannot be brought up to date
* enrico suggests everyone to have a look at the QUick Guide: it's really, really good
<enrico> THe best introduction to a Desktop OS I've seen so far
* mako will vouch for the quick guide as well
<enrico> mdz: doesn't gnome 2.10 have a user's guide?
<sivang> enrico: maybe we can replace it with some of our stuff? quick guide?
<ogra> enrico: url ?
<mdz> enrico: it is unfortunate that nobody can find it :-)
<mdz> ogra: help->other documentation
<seb128> mdz: shaunm has updated a bunch of user-guide documents on the CVS 2 days ago
<mako> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/docteam/quickguide/
<ogra> mdz: thanks
<enrico> ogra: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
<froud> mdz: here is what we have in plan http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
<dholbach> mdz: done, he thinks its feasible
<froud> mdz: currently
<enrico> Quick Guide is not a user's guide: it's a "I'll show you your new flat" kind of document
<mdz> enrico: that's sor tof what the gnome user's guide is anyway
<seb128> mdz: user guide is 2.8 in yelp here
<enrico> For the User's Guide, I think the best bet is to take what happens from Gnome's side
<mdz> but it is a bit more detailed, it explains how to use the system
<seb128> mdz: and I remember updating for warty ... that's only the title beeing wrong and displaying 2.6
<enrico> Maybe we can see if they need help, but people in the docteam are used to the workflow we have now, and it'd be quite disrupting to propose a new one now
<mdz> seb128: oh
<mdz> seb128: can you fix the title? :-)
<seb128> "GNOME 2.8 Desktop User Guide"
<seb128> on the page
<enrico> Especially after the chaos of the last days, which just sorted out after lots of efforts
<seb128> I'll update to 2.10 from the CVS
<mdz> I didn't look at the content
<mdz> seb128: ok, great, thanks
<seb128> np
<mdz> moving on
<mdz> Keybuk is going to help us next week with dpkg bugs
<mdz> especially #164595
<enrico> mdz: Quick Guide says "this is the toilet", but doesn't tell you how to flush it
<mdz> which is needed for the langpack update mechanism
<sivang> how compatiable are we the gnome 2.10 manual? don't we have changed menu items and nautilus stuff?
<mdz> is there any other dpkg work we need, while we have him?
<mdz> enrico, sivang: if there is more docteam material to cover, let's schedule a separate meeting. we have been here 2 hours already and have much more to cover
<enrico> mdz: we have a docteam meeting tomorrow, 23:00UTC
<mdz> ok
<sivang> mdz: right, sorry for creating noise
<enrico> mdz: you're welcome to show up there
<mdz> ok
<mdz> any other dpkg items? no?
<mdz> seeds
<ogra> enrico: do you have any process in place for dev reviews ? 
<mdz> pitti: this is the langpack selection stuff
<pitti> yeah
<mdz> we want to fit as many as we can on both install and live
<pitti> I already said, but again:
<mako> ogra: hwat do you mean by review?
<mako> ogra: copy edit, proof, tech edit?
<pitti> ppc allows us to accomodate some 42 MB until we reach 650
<mdz> Kamion: do we have space for winfoss and the remaining 42MB of langpacks?
<ogra> mako: to avoid technical mistakes like the ones done in the ubuntuguide.org
<mdz> on i386/
<mdz> ?
<pitti> we currently have about 45 MB of langpacks which are not on the CD already
<mako> ogra: tech editing
* froud wants to discuss that in docteam meeting
<ogra> ah, thans mako
<pitti> mdz: depends on how many kernels we ship in addition
<enrico> ogra: you can review on the HTML preview and then post comments
<pitti> mdz: on i386 we have an extra 75 mb
<ogra> enrico: great, i'll add it to my todo :)
<mdz> pitti: I only skimmed the log, but it sounded infeasible to ship more kernels
<enrico> ogra: reviewing DocBook would be even better
<mdz> pitti: before or after winfoss?
<pitti> mdz: it shouldn't be infeasible to ship them, just to integrate their installation
<ogra> enrico: k
<enrico> ogra: the repo is open read-ponly to everyone and you can post pathces to the list
<pitti> mdz: I looked at the size of the preview CDs
<mdz> pitti: integrating their installation is done
<mdz> pitti: the only problem is shipping them :-)
<T-Bone> as fabbione pointed out, they're huge
<mdz> base-installer has code to select the best kernel for the system
<pitti> mdz: what should be the problem with putting -k7 in ship?
<mdz> pitti: the fact that there are far more 686 systems than k7?
<pitti> mdz: sure, we have to pick
<pitti> mdz: but anyway
<Kamion> mdz: no
<mdz> we either ship one kernel which works everywhere (as we currently do)
<pitti> ppc allows 40 mb, i386 allows 115 mb
<mdz> or we ship all of the custom kernels
<mdz> because the kernel team says that we cannot reduce it safely for hoary
<T-Bone> the first choice seems better to me in the long run
<pitti> ia64 allows 45 mb, amd64 allows 90 mb
<T-Bone> number of flavours can do only one thing: increase
<Kamion> mdz: with WinFOSS, i386 has about 20MB free
<mdz> Kamion: eek
<thom> Kamion: presumably that means amd64 is right on the limit with winfoss added?
<Kamion> mdz: (live CD, obviously)
<mdz> pitti: what can we do with 20M of langpacks?
<pitti> 20 mb is enough for about 40% of the other langpacks
<Kamion> thom: yes, about 1MB short
<mdz> oh, live cd
<Kamion> we do not have WinFOSS on the install CD at the moment
<mdz> live CD compression is ~60% I think
<Kamion> is it wanted there?
<mdz> lamont: ^^?
<lamont> yes
<mdz> Kamion: no
<Kamion> good
<lamont> it's at about 35-40 %
<mdz> pitti: so 45M of langpacks should -> ~15M of live CD space
<lamont> WinFOSS is outside the cloop, of course.
<pitti> mdz: if we optimize a bit, we _could_ squeeze all the stuff onto the ppc cd
<crimsun> a lot of new users seem to complain that the installer doesn't select an "optimised" kernel by default, but it doesn't make sense to tie up that much space with custom kernels. It makes more sense to stick with the default base kernel that works everywhere.
<pitti> mdz: erm, I'm already talking about .deb sizes#
<Kamion> mdz: i386 install CD is at 533 MB
<mdz> crimsun: it will choose the best kernel on the DVD; we don't even have room for one more kernel on the install CD
<T-Bone> silly idea, but what about picking the correct kernel automagically in stage 2 if the user selected internet download?
<mdz> nm, I confused instal and live CD sizes
<Kamion> we have room for lots more kernels on the install CD
<mdz> Kamion: ok, plenty of room
<mdz> the i386 kernel flavours are ~16M apiece
<pitti> Kamion: s/lots/2/ ?
<mdz> we could put -686, -k7, -686-smp, -k7-smp
<Kamion> pitti: easily
<T-Bone> (that would delay booting the new kernel to the next reboot, of course)
<Kamion> ] 
<pitti> Kamion: I mean until we reach the ppc size
<Kamion> I think we can live without -smp variants personally
<pitti> Kamion: then we have an equal amount of space for langpacks
<T-Bone> Kamion: ^^^
<sivang> I second crimsun , with the addition that some tool should exist to do the touch finishing of the installation, as provide you with a clickable solution to install optimized drivers for you vid-card, install an optimized kernel etc.
<mdz> Kamion: those would be the first to go, certainly
<Kamion> T-Bone: prefer to avoid that if at all possible
<mdz> Kamion: but for server installs they're awfully handy
<T-Bone> k
<pitti> mdz: OTOH servers will probably have a good net connection
<Kamion> T-Bone: and there is *no* code for that right now; writing new kernel selection code is not the thing I want to be doing right at this moment
<T-Bone> pitti: that too
<Kamion> mdz: true
<mdz> Kamion: I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with having base-installer select hte kernel this late in the release cycle, though
<T-Bone> Kamion: ah ok, i thought the current code could be used in stage2. sorry
<Kamion> erm; it already does select the kernel, on netboot installs
<mdz> Kamion: I think I really really like the idea of having the same kernel boot in stage1 and stage2
<mdz> but netboot is an extreme corner case for Ubuntu; we don't even document or advertise that it is possible
<Kamion> hm, I'm ambivalent
<Kamion> we do document it :)
<doko_> they throw us out, we have to leave now. I'll read the log back in Berlin
<mdz> now :-)
<elmo> netboot good
<sivang> doko_: c'ya
<dholbach> bye doko 
<elmo> no netboot bad
* T-Bone contemplates elmo :)
<lamont> same kernel both stages good
<mdz> Kamion: we do have bug reports where the -smp kernels fail, but the -386 kernel works
<pitti> elmo spoken
<thom> * elmo hit no netboot with big club
<lamont> s/club/thagomizer/
<mdz> let's pass on the kernels issue for Hoary; reliability is most important at this point
<Kamion> mdz: I'm equally uncomfortable with having one kernel in stage2 and another kernel in the first reboot after stage2
<Kamion> when that first reboot might be next week
<Kamion> failing earlier is better than failing later :)
<mdz> the other kernel flavours are only truly important on servers (where the admin will know what to do) and very high-end desktop
<fabbione> Kamion: +100
<T-Bone> true
<thom> Kamion: that sounds worse by far, agreed
<mdz> so let's not add kernels to ship
<mdz> getting back to langpacks
<fabbione> mdz: agreed
<Kamion> all right, then
<ogra> elmo: that was the documentation ?
<fabbione> is there anything more to discuss about kernel?
<elmo> can I request we bump anything to do with me up the agenda (i.e. archive I guess) - I have to catch a train at some point this evening, and they only run so late
<mdz> we can definitely add all langpacks to ship for i386
<pitti> mdz: I will sum up the langpack statistics to u-devel
<fabbione> i wouldn't mind to go and have some dinner
<mdz> Kamion: how much space left on ppc?
<pitti> 42  MB
<pitti> (install)
<mdz> ok
<Kamion> mdz: install or live?
<mdz> pitti: go ahead and add the remaining langpacks to i386 ship
<T-Bone> fabbione: order a pizza ;)
<mdz> Kamion: install
<mdz> (42M apparently)
<Kamion> yes, what pitti said
<pitti> mdz: and to amd64 as well, I suppose
<sivang> T-Bone: my pizza is in the fridge downstairs :)
<mdz> I  know these meetings are long, believe me my wrists are killing me
<mdz> but we don't do this very often, and we have a lot to discuss
<pitti> mdz: we probably have to pick a little for ppc
<Kamion> ok, numbers:
<mdz> so I need for you guys to stick around
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  583636992 Mar 11 08:24 hoary-install-amd64.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  558759936 Mar 11 08:33 hoary-install-i386.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  634318848 Mar 11 08:58 hoary-install-ia64.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  636979200 Mar 11 09:12 hoary-install-powerpc.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  680626176 Mar 11 11:50 hoary-live-amd64.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  661864448 Mar 11 11:51 hoary-live-i386.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  599754752 Mar 11 11:52 hoary-live-ia64.iso
<Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  615639040 Mar 11 11:53 hoary-live-powerpc.iso
<Kamion> limit is 681574400
<lamont> <Kamion> -rw-rw-r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  680626176 Mar 11 11:50 hoary-live-amd64.iso
<lamont> eep!
<mdz> 650M hoary-live-amd64.iso
<T-Bone> live amd64, gosh
<Kamion> lamont: that's with WinFOSS
<pitti> Kamion: oh, the http page says "608 MB" for ppc
<mdz> what happened there?
<lamont> Kamion: ah, ok
<mdz> oh, winfoss
<Kamion> which can be reduced
<mdz> we can kill winfoss from amd64 if necessary
<Kamion> pitti: yes, divide by 1024*1024, not 1000*1000 :)
<mdz> Kamion: ls -sh :-)
<pitti> do we have 650 * 1024^2 or 650 * 1000^2 bytes?
<pitti> Kamion: I know, but I'm unsure about the size of a CD
<mdz> unknown
<lamont> 650*2^20
<Kamion> pitti: 650*1024*1024
<Kamion> I checked this morning against cdrecord source
* pitti is relieved
<Kamion> 333000 sectors, to be exact
<lamont> but DVD's are 4.7*10^9
<T-Bone> err
<T-Bone> can we stop the maths?
<pitti> okay, then we do have 42 MB for ppc
<Kamion> so in fact 681984000 bytes
<lamont> Kamion: warty live was already against the wire
<mdz> so 650.4 * 1024^2
<pitti> mdz: I do the maths more exactly and report back with the ppc status
<jani> no 700Mb CDs?
<pitti> mdz: I can find out whether stripping would be enough to fit everything
<mdz> pitti: ok, but definitely add the langpacks for i386
<mdz> pitti: for the next daily
<pitti> mdz: sure (and amd64)
<Kamion> jani: that's often asked, but we already get a lot of bug reports due to bad media
<Kamion> jani: I am very uncomfortable with raising the bar even higher
<jani> Kamion, oh ok didn't know
<mdz> jani: remember, we also press proper 650M standard CDs
<mdz> not only images for CD-Rs
<mdz> moving right along
<mdz> elmo: you're up
<mdz> and lamont
<lamont> woot
<mdz> now seems like a good time to start the test rebuild
* lamont looks at elmo
<mdz> and fix the uninstallables
<mdz> for supported architectures
<mdz> lamont: you said you needed a test archive?
<ogra> mdz:does this includeuniverse ?
<lamont> yep
<lamont> ogra: yes
<ogra> ah, great
<lamont> full rebuild will be all components
<mdz> Kamion: in whata way?
<mdz> er
<mdz> ogra: in what way?
<Kamion> briefly about langpacks> by the way, the slowness with installing lots of them should now be resolved; let me know if it isn't
<mdz> the test rebuild?
<ogra> mdz: in what way great ? 
<mdz> lamont: you're the only one who would notice the time difference (installing langpacks on the live rootfs)
<lamont> ogra: I won't generally be _fixing_ things in universe, but we will build them all;
<jbailey> Nice.  Are the rebuilt packages what go into the archive, or ar they thrown away?
<mdz> ogra: in what way universe?
<mdz> jbailey: thrown away
<elmo> jbailey: thrown the hell away
<dholbach> mdz: i hope we can get a list of packages, not installable/buildable
<ogra> mdz: in the way: we need a list of packages that need fixing
<mdz> hence "test" rebuild :-)
<jbailey> Mmm, too bad.  It's not a big deal for now, but when we bump glibc or gcc major revs we should make sure we do this.
<lamont> build logs will go in a sibling to buildLogs on p.u.c
<elmo> for the test archive stuff, I have a machine available, but the combination of hoary-test, vancouver and this week's install fest, has meant I haven't installed katie + w-b on it yet
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: lamont should be able to give you a list of the failures without much additional work, if any
<Kamion> mdz: (it also made a difference for people selecting languages where the langpack was not installed)
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: regarding uninstallables, "apt-cache -i unmet"
<elmo> jbailey: dude, no we shouldn't
* thom calls to mind elmo's "HERE'S JONNY" quote
<dholbach> mdz: thanks
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: Charles Majola is starting to work through them, coordinate with him
<mdz> Kamion: oh, true
<jbailey> elmo: Tracing unreproducable abi bugs really sucks.
<mdz> elmo: ETA?
<ogra> mdz: wow, didnt know about "unmet" thanks :)
<elmo> mdz: early next week
<lamont> jbailey: if you mean do a test rebuild, certainly.  If you mean rebuild the archive and lose all our mirror sites, certainly not.
<elmo> jbailey: not having a mirror network and not supporting partial upgrades sucks more
<dholbach> ogra: i put it on the wiki
<ogra> dholbach: thks wiki master :)
<dholbach> ogra: (after a sorting) :-)
<jbailey> lamont: Doesn't have to be done in one shot, but over the course of a release every package should be touched at least once after a glibc or gcc bump for sanity.
<thom> elmo/lamont: in fairness, this is exactly what fedora are doing currently in rebuilding the world on gcc 4.0, and they don't appear to have caused people to run away screaming
<elmo> thom: I run away screaming from fedora all the time
<T-Bone> that's a good thing :)
<ogra> heh
<thom> elmo: pffft, you know what i mean
<elmo> thom: and last I checked fedora aren't 60Gb
<elmo> sorry, but it's madness
<elmo> if gcc/glib require that - they're broken
<Kamion> SMS from mdz: "offline again"
<ogra> grr
<elmo> if fixing is hard, fine, but then we're giving up on supporting partial upgrades
<sivang> Kamion: seems like he has a net connection as good as mines
<jbailey> It's not required, there are just often subtle changes that require older things to use compatability code.
<jbailey> And a rebuild just makes them go away, so as soon as you recompile to get a decent backtrace, no more bug.
<lamont> jbailey: so there are bugs
* lamont likes partial upgrades
<elmo> jbailey: seriously how often does this happen?  maybe I'm being dense, but I can't recally many/examples of that with Debian stuff?
<elmo> in any event, it's -ETOPIC, and we can discuss it out-of-band
<Kamion> errno?
<mdz> elmo: ok, thanks
<mdz> elmo: germinate/archive sync is up to date now, right?
<mdz> I added that agenda item before we talked about it last
<jbailey> Yup.
<elmo> mdz: yes
<mdz> back
<Kamion> mdz: recovered scrollback?
<mdz> yes
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: quick universe status update?
<mdz> _quick_ :-)
<pitti> mdz: just added the remaining langpacks to amd64 and i386
<ogra> mdz: we plan to do kind of a "softfreeze" 
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<pitti> mdz: rest -> mail
<Kamion> er, we skipped over uninstallables a bit
<ogra> mdz: so wecall it a freeze, but everybody will know its not but should be cautions what he uploads
<Kamion> I volunteered to try to get britney to output universe uninstallables separately; will try to look at that next week
<dholbach> mdz: python transition is nearly complete, howl transition (not that much work) nearly done too
<ogra> mdz: we still have a lot to reveiew
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> that's what i was anxious to discuss
<dholbach> lots of things are already fixed and need review to be uploaded
<ogra> mdz: mostly done by dholbach since i was dragged away by my real world probs and hwdb-client, i will take up again next week
<dholbach> but we seem to have no capacity
<dholbach> so if some of you just picked a random package of the "to review" section of MOTUTodo we'd be really really happy
<ogra> dholbach: we should focus on people already having a key up
<mdz> dholbach: send an email to ubuntu-devel asking for volunteers
<dholbach> i know that we're faster in reviewing than the debian new maintainer crew, but still
<mdz> dholbach: most of the people here have a lot of tasks already
* jani feels  guilty for not doing motu work this week
<ogra> dholbach: lets sort them this way
<dholbach> i wont thrash anyone into it
<mdz> Kamion: can you exclude ia64 from hoary_probs.html?
<elmo> no, but I can
<ogra> we got a lot of motivated people out there, but nearly everyone has probs to get a signed key
<mdz> pitti: some language-support-* are still uninstallable?
<T-Bone> mdz: why?
<mdz> Kamion: right, sorry, I keep forgetting :-)
<T-Bone> mdz: i track that
<mdz> T-Bone: so that we can see what needs to be done for the release
<pitti> mdz: oh? I don't have bug reports any more
<Kamion> mdz: I don't see the need, since most of that stuff is about to be fixed
<dholbach> jani: please don't feel guilty :-)
<pitti> mdz: is there an automatic page for this?
<T-Bone> mdz: how having ia64 in that list prevents you to do so?
<mdz> pitti: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/testing/hoary_probs.html
<mdz> T-Bone: by presenting me with a lot of information that I don't care about
<T-Bone> a lot?
<pitti> mdz: thanks, will sort this out
<mdz> T-Bone: about 1/3 of that stuff is ia64
<mdz> T-Bone: let's not argue about this. we can split ia64 into a separate file
<mdz> elmo: right?
<elmo> err, I can run britney twice, sure
<lamont> elmo: what about spilling ia64 errors into another file?
<elmo> she's cheap-ish
<mdz> ok, solved
<Kamion> let me know where to mirror stuff from
<mdz> pitti: I think some of it might be thunderbird
* T-Bone notes that we don't care about ia64
<mdz> pitti: at this point, if the packages cannot be easily fixed (e.g., sync from Debian), we probably need to remoev the deps
<mdz> T-Bone: not for the Hoary release we don't
<pitti> mdz: yeah, will do
<mdz> we've been over that
<T-Bone> that'll teach me trying to fix blockers
<Kamion> T-Bone: it's not a release target; please don't have a go at mdz for only caring about release targets, he has a hell of a lot to consider
<pitti> mdz: some of it might be OO.o
<T-Bone> ok
<Kamion> T-Bone: the universe guys are also working on stuff that is not release targets
<Kamion> T-Bone: that doesn't mean it's unimportant, just that it should be possible to consider release targets separately from anything else
<T-Bone> Kamion: my understanding was that ia64 would be reconsidered if the two big blockers were solved
<crimsun> elmo: (thanks for looking after my GPG key)
<pitti> mdz: mozilla locales, too
<mdz> right.  ia64 and universe will do the best they can for release, but they will not block us
<Kamion> we won't be putting universe into hoary_probs.html either
<mdz> pitti: same answer there
<elmo> crimsun: (np, sorry for delay)
<pitti> sure
<mdz> moving on
<mdz> warty upgrades -> language pack/support install
<mdz> that's a documentation issue as far as I'm concerned
<mdz> we don't have much else
<Kamion> T-Bone: I don't know the status of that; for the moment, it seems entirely fair to split ia64 out of hoary_probs.html, until such time as the status changes
<mdz> pitti: can you add that to HoaryUpgradeNotes?
<pitti> mdz: I think this could be solved with upgrading hooks
<elmo> anything else for me in the agenda?  sorry to be trying to skip out, but it's a long journey back to leeds
<pitti> mdz: yes, I can
<pitti> mdz: however, maybe we can hook it into the upgrade manager
<mdz> elmo: only remaining item would be any further server testing
<pitti> mdz: I ask mvo about this
<mdz> pitti: ok, please do
<elmo> mdz: *cry* you want me to do that AGAIN?
<mdz> elmo: not on the same scale
<mdz> elmo: let's talk about it later, go
<dholbach> pitti: shall i ping mvo about something specific - i make notes for him already
<elmo> ok, thanks.  sorry.  etc. 
<mdz> next item: security policy review
<mdz> pitti: we need to ensure that we haven't regressed from warty
<pitti> dholbach: I'll ask him on monday, I already noted this
<mdz> pitti: e.g., new setuid programs or ports
<dholbach> pitti: alright
<pitti> mdz: I will do another warty install, upgrade and compare setuid and process lists
<mdz> pitti has a lot to do right now; can someone else do that review?
<mdz> lamont: ?
<pitti> that'd be fine, too :-)
<mdz> lamont: while you're waiting for the infrastructure for the test rebuild, can you do a Warty vs. Hoary setuid diff?
<pitti> lamont: this would involve to note all setuid binaries that were added, and all processes which now run as root in addition
<lamont> mdz: wouldn't be hard to do, no
<mdz> and ntan
<mdz> that
<mdz> lamont: great, thanks
<pitti> mdz: I also need to do a full security review for Hoary packages
<mdz> language-support-* mvo said he would investigate
<mdz> pitti: what kind of review?
<pitti> mdz: my Ubuntu CVE status page already helps a lot, but it does not contain all CANs
<mdz> oh, of known vulnerabilities
<pitti> mdz: some CANs might have slipped though the cracks
<pitti> mdz: like, on syncinc packages or so
<mdz> pitti: can you recruit someone to help?  maybe gerardo?
<mdz> pitti: we could bounty it
<pitti> mdz: gerardo, sivang, lamont?
<sivang> mdz: I'm in :)
<mdz> ok
<pitti> mdz: hmm, I'd rather control this myself, if you don't mind :-)
<pitti> mdz: similar to the warty release
<pitti> mdz: this worked pretty fine
<sivang> pitti: that was for you also :)
<mdz> pitti: ok, I'm concerned about you being overloaded though
<pitti> mdz: I'll coordinate, not do everything myself :-)
<mdz> pitti: so please get some assistance for the research; this is easy to parallelize
<ogra> pitti: something else you can drop `
<ogra> ?
<mdz> Kamion: installer test plan
<pitti> ogra: yes, bug fixing :-)
<mdz> Kamion: can you put together an outline by, say, RC-7days?
<Kamion> on my list; amu posted a link earlier which could be extended
<Kamion> although that seems to be more the installed system actually
<Kamion> mdz: yes, I'll adapt from the Debian installer test plan
<mdz> yes, that's for the live CD
<mdz> ok, thanks
<Kamion> oh, good point
<mdz> the live CD test plan covers much of the desktop, last I looked at it
<Kamion> one sec I'll find the link
<mdz> amu: do you have that URL?
<mdz> it's not in my log
<thom> Kamion: if you need help on that one yell
<Kamion> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/QAtesting
<mdz> thom: can you work on the server test plan?
<thom> sure
<mdz> thom: basic functional testing of the common server stuff, apache, php, mysql, whatnot
<Kamion> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/d-i/trunk/installer/doc/devel/release-checklist?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<Kamion> ^- d-i test plan
<mdz> all of this should be written up at the level that anyone with reasonable Ubuntu command-line skills can follow it
<mdz> so that we can ask all volunteer testers to follow the plan
<thom> right
<mdz> Kamion: do you want to do server-mode installs as part of the installer test plan, or the server test plan?
<Kamion> mdz: both, I think
<Kamion> different focus
<mdz> Kamion: ok, send thom the relevant info
<mdz> that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> I have one more item
<mdz> BUGS
<mdz> I recently made a pass over all >=major bugs
<mdz> but there are probably bugs out there with the wrong severity
<mdz> each of you, please review your open bugs
<mdz> and ensure that anything which should be on my radar for Hoary is set to >=major
<pitti> mdz: do you consider warty->hoary upgrading issues as major? (I do)
<mdz> please do that by the end of next week
<mdz> pitti: yes
<pitti> mdz: e. g. fixing console-tools is a bit nontrivial
<HiddenWolf> just wondering: there are a lot of bugs posted on the mailing list, are these filed in bugzilla?
<pitti> HiddenWolf: not automatically
<mdz> send me a note when you've finished your review, so that I know when I can consider the release-relevant bug list to be fairly complete
<mdz> HiddenWolf: if you see someone reporting a bug to the mailing list, and you are sure it is a real bug, ask them to file it in bugzilla
<mdz> we ask people to report issues to the mailing lists when they are not sure
<mdz> any other business?
<ogra> HiddenWolf: ....and if you are sure that its not a universe bug 
<HiddenWolf> mdz: are all those gamin issues in bugzilla already?
<mdz> ogra: :-)
<mdz> HiddenWolf: which ones?
<tseng> HiddenWolf: there are several different reports
<tseng> HiddenWolf: they need to be sorted out in the next week
<sivang> ogra:  what happens to unvierse bug ATM? they are awaiting malone?
<mdz> HiddenWolf: pitti is going to work on triaging them, can you help him?
<ogra> mdz: today and yesterday a thread started on -devel
<ogra> (gamin)
<tseng> sivang: right now they seem to go to -users.. yes @ waiting for malone
<sivang> tseng: ok
<ogra> sivang: see tseng
<tseng> the gamin thread on devel is pretty useless
<ogra> yup
<HiddenWolf> mdz: if he needs the help...
<pitti> HiddenWolf: most of gamin issues are already assignede to me and filed, yes
<tseng> "gamin is teh b0rk"
<dholbach> thanks mdz, thanks kamion
<pitti> tseng: fam is b0rked, too
<tseng> sure is.
<mdz> any other business before we close?
<Kamion> I added DVD testing to the agenda
<pitti> EBANDWIDTH
<mdz> oh, I haven't reloaded
<mdz> who here has DVD writers?
<Kamion> I've ordered a DVD burner and DVD+RWs, but I would like people with bandwidth and DVD burners to have a go, too
<jbailey> I do
<mdz> (I have one)
<dholbach> me
<tseng> I have a dvdr
<ogra> mdz: me
* pitti raises hand
* lamont has a burner, but bandwidht can be a challenge some days
<seb128> do we have DVD isos for the preview ?
<sivang> mdz: have bandwidth, no burner :-/
<thom> i was planning to acquire such a beast, i can move it up the schedule
<Kamion> because the DVDs are almost entirely untested, and, as shown by Linux Magazine, people are going to want to ship them
<mdz> seb128: no
<Kamion> seb128: we have weekly-dvd builds on cdimage.u.c
<mdz> seb128: because we didn't have time/people to test htem :-)
<seb128> k
<pitti> sivang: burner, no bandwith -> let's move together
<seb128> I'll have a try on the current one
<seb128> I've a medium bandwith but my server can download during the night :)
<mdz> Kamion: looks like we have a reasonable list of people who can test, once we have a plan
<jbailey> I may want to look into want my maximum transfer is for the month and get a better package, though. =)
* dholbach gets it too
<ogra> pitti: going to .il ?
<pitti> erm...
* thom hugs unlimited transfer
* pitti curses 3GB/week
<sivang> pitti:  :-)
<ogra> pitti: the other way around would be no benefit *g*
<Kamion> I am aware of an archive-copier bug that causes DVD installations to copy a LOT of data to the hard disk at the moment
<Kamion> I'm in the process of fixing that
<mdz> Kamion: at what time of the week does the DVD build take place?
<Kamion> 17 12 * * 6     /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.weekly-dvd
<mdz> pitti: you should be able to jigdo the CD data onto the DVD, at least
<Kamion> per colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/cdimage--mainline--0 etc/crontab
<pitti> dholbach: could you snailmail me a DVD?
<thom> Kamion: all of the packages on the dvd, perchance?
<Kamion> thom: everything in Ubuntu supported
<dholbach> pitti: query me your adress
<thom> ouch indeed
<Kamion> thom: plus the live cloop
<mdz> dholbach,tseng,ogra,pitti,thom: it would be aa good idea to download the current weekly DVD, so that you can rsync up to the next one
<Kamion> it's a combo
<mdz> our weekly churn should be fairly reasonable at this point
<Kamion> I'll probably make it go more often than weekly
* ogra starts download
<Kamion> maybe Saturdays and Wednesdays, or something
<mdz> even better
<jbailey> Are DVDs usefully rsync'able?
<pitti> mdz: I get one snailmailed and update from it
<mdz> what I do for CDs is to set up a nightly rsync job, so that I'm always up to date and don't have to wait for downloads
<thom> yeah, i'm gonna kick that off now
<mdz> if you don't have transfer limits, I recommend doing the same
<ogra> jbailey: isnt it a iso ?
<mdz> jbailey: they're as rsyncable as the install+live CDs
<jbailey> Cool.
<mdz> jbailey: though when they're generated weekly, less so
<mdz> Kamion: I think twice weekly is reasonable
<Kamion> alright, will do
<mdz> ok, is there any other business before we break?
<mdz> we're at the 3-hour mark ;-)
<mdz> ok, hearing none, meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<ogra> i will need some server for hwdb-client, but we can do that in PM
<mdz> anything else, mail ubuntu-devel@
<ogra> and later
<sivang> ogra: PM ?
<ogra> sivang: personal message
<tseng> thanks mdz 
* sivang goes to restart his net connection, hope this will work since should have 1.5Mbit unlimited.
<pitti> thanks mdz, long but great meeting
<lamont> pitti++
<jbailey> \o/
* lamont isn't sure he _wants_ to understand that emoticon
<Kamion> lamont: imagine arms lifted up in a "yay" gesture
<thom> i'm not sure if it's "I surrender" or "throws hands up in glee"
<zul> its like what the comic bookshop guy said "there is no emoticon for the rage im feeling"
<jbailey> lamont: Cheering pitti's statement.
<lamont> ah, ok
<mgalvin> hi all i just got back and saw that dvd's need testing, the last one is from the 8th, since that one will prolly not work for me, does anyone when the nest one will be rolled
<Kamion> mgalvin: why won't that work?
<Kamion> mgalvin: but it'll be tomorrow sometime
<mgalvin> Kamoin: my machine was affected by the sata bug from the other day that the release was delated for
<Kamion> hm, the last weekly-dvd build was kicked off manually by me
<Kamion> mgalvin: ah, ok
<dholbach> Kamion: so new dvd-isos tomorrow?
<Kamion> dholbach: yeah
<ogra> dholbach: start the DL immediately, then do a rsync
<Kamion> starts at 12:17 UTC
<dholbach> alright
<Kamion> will take several hours I imagine
<mgalvin> I will download the new dvd image when its ready and give it a go, i have an unlimited connection here and get up to 700/kbs :)
<thom> Kamion: you need to fix up the HEADER.html for the dvds...
<Kamion> thom: hm, yeah, that'll be interesting
<Kamion> noted
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-23
<Simira> Kamion: ping?
<HostingGeek> tooo many meetings
* enrico walks in and hangs the coat on the side
* froud wakes up from dead sleep
* jeffsch walks in, trips over shoelace
<froud> nhla lets do this thing
<froud> enrico: you lead
<enrico> are we all there?
<froud> here
<trickie> here
<jeffsch> here
<froud> what's first topic enrico 
* enrico pulls up the wiki page
<drasko> hi all... 
* ogra waves from the bleachers
<enrico> Good.
* enrico coughs
<enrico> Good morning/afternoon/evening/night, ladies and gentlemen
<Burgundavia> hello
<enrico> Welcome to the third Ubuntu Docteam Meeting
* froud nods in the direction of Burgundavia 
<enrico> I'm loosely leading the session, and I'll post minutes to the mailing list and in the wiki
<enrico> We have three main topics in the agenda:
<enrico> 1) Clarification of recent events
<enrico> 2) Releasing Hoary
<enrico> 3) Post Hoary
<trickie> i posted the first topic on the wiki, because i was not understanding what was going on very recentyl in regards to the team
<enrico> We can start with the first one, just quickly I'd say: we seem to have reached harmony, and I don't want to shake it too much :)
<froud> basically Burgundavia and I kissed and made up
<Burgundavia> right
<trickie> love is in the air...
<Burgundavia> well I am single
<trickie> ha ha ha
* enrico hugs Burgundavia 
<enrico> I have a personal take on the event, though
<froud> however as general we need some guidelines to contributions at various dev stages
<froud> prose are not code
<enrico> froud: yes.  We've been needing some freeze, or half-freeze, for quite a while
<jeffsch> phases like: planning, writing, editing, release?
<froud> jeffsch: yes
<froud> we have used @status in the docs
<froud> if people want I can change them
* enrico likes the idea
<enrico> I mean, the idea of phases
<enrico> I'd just remove the "planning" phase
<froud> normally we use outline, first draft, second draft, camera ready
<enrico> It seems to me like the analogue of the "work in progess" icon on webpages
<enrico> Sometimes it helps to make it so that either a work starts, or it isn't there.  "planning" phases tend to sit there forever
<froud> outlining is a plan
<enrico> froud: ah, ok
<froud> see it as a skeleton
<trickie> thats how i see it
<froud> from outline we can derive status docs
<froud> and allocate work between us
<froud> after each decides on a section we prepare first draft
<froud> collectively
<froud> then we switch sections as we go to second draft
<froud> each checks and edits the other
<froud> after second draft we do technical review
<froud> at which point major edit should be limited to
<froud> technical error, punctuation, spelling grammar
<froud> opinions
<enrico> You need a tightly coupled team to for the switching sections part to be successful
<trickie> i agree, using those phases and limiting edits in certian phases will certainly increase our productivity
<jeffsch> big changes near a release are not good: one thing gets fixed, and two get broken. it is normal for that to happen
<froud> enrico: what do you suggest
<enrico> But I think the limiting edits to "technical error, punctuation, spelling grammar" is a good step
<enrico> I mean, a step to make at some point
<trickie> if someone sees something they would like to change (majorly) but it is already in final draft, then they should line it up for the next release
<froud> yes, in each release the docs should go through the same phases
<froud> over the course of several releases
<enrico> From what froud said, I'd keep at least the freeze-like phase, and apply it to the QuickGuide now
<froud> quality and quanity is built
<froud> over time and provided that the whole OS does not change, stability is created
<enrico> froud: yes.  I'm curious to see what the QuickGuide will have become by Grumpy or Perky
<trickie> I am not sure how smoothly the switching sections bit will be either... but it will only be easier as participation grows
<froud> yes, Quick Guide is the platform to build on
<enrico> .oO(I guess people will have noticed that I'm a shameless fan of the quickguide)
<froud> trickie: the switching happens on nodes
<froud> some nodes move faster than others
<froud> basically the @status shows the stage a node is at
<trickie> yes agreed on that, whether every node gets to go through the whole process or not is what i meant
<froud> so status="first-draft"
<froud> the main problem I see is the interaction with the technical review
<froud> it's not such a problem with quick guide
<froud> but for user and admin guides it will be
* enrico thinks
<froud> we need devs to do the technical reviews
<trickie> yes, we will have to probably include developers
<froud> and to save them time
<trickie> yes
<froud> we have to give specific reference to what they should check
<Burgundavia> a dev read over might be a good thing at certain point
<enrico> I like the idea, but I'm still wondering if it applies to the more caotic nature of our project
<Burgundavia> catch things like the sudo error
<enrico> I was however liking the idea of phases
<froud> Burgundavia: yes :-)
<enrico> How about:
<trickie> yes i found dev feedback for the release notes was good, but because i asked for general review and comments it came in over a few weeks
<enrico> 1) "Wiki mode": everyone adds contents everywhere, even comments
<enrico> 2) "Style mode": people pull the contents of a section together in a nicely readable way, giving them a narration and a consistent meaning and style
<enrico> 3) "Review mode": as froud was saying
* ogra offers dholbach a place at the bleachers
<froud> I was thinking devs do svn up we give them xpath
<trickie> great idea
<froud> they check the node and add <!--comments--> or make direct edit
<enrico> uh, and of course:
<enrico> 4) Ready for release
<froud> they make patch
<enrico> Being a Debian Developer, I sometimes forget that there are releases :-)
<Mithrandir> enrico :)
<trickie> a patch would be good, because if they have content they would like to see, or a change to existing content, they don't usually have time to phrase it as the rest of the doc
<froud> there are also more devs that writers
* enrico thinks it's safe to declare that the first main point "clarification of recent events" has been fully covered :)
<froud> patches are easier to control
<trickie> agreed
<enrico> second point is: Releasing Hoary
<Burgundavia> have we had a dev do a technical check of the docs?
<enrico> can we safely conclude that the QuickGuide is in "review" phase as defined above by froud ?
<trickie> enrico, have you heard anything about whether the .pot file i sent you for the quickguide was asustiable for the translators?
<enrico> "edit should be limited to technical error, punctuation, spelling grammar"
* froud wonders how we get devs to do checks
* froud wonders how we notify devs
<enrico> trickie: good question.  I'm checking ubuntu-translators
<ogra> froud, we are watching you
<Burgundavia> I was about to say that
* froud tilts head to oneside
<trickie> froud, maybe we should ask em?
<trickie> ha ha ha
<froud> you think they can see but not hear?
<trickie> dunno, never can tell with those devs
<trickie> :)
* froud pinches ogra for signs of life
<ogra> lol
<enrico> trickie: I sent the potfile you gave me to Carlos Pereillo, but I still haven't heard back
<froud> ogra: how can we notify devs in an orderly manner
<enrico> Hello Liz!
<mdz> Jeff Waugh (jdub) is already starting to review the docs
<trickie> enrico, no probs!
<Mithrandir> froud: bribery with beer always works.
<Liz> hi enrico
<Liz> morning all
<mdz> but he probably needs some prodding
<ogra> froud: you can drop by in #ubuntu-motu and call for help
<trickie> mdz, ok, i'll warm up the taser
<Liz> jeff lives on caffeine
<froud> ogra: and are the devs ok with the process outlined above?
<froud> I mean svn co, xpath etc
<drasko> froud, how to know that?
<ogra> froud: i think so, but you guys must keep in mind tha time is getting shorter for us as well with the nearig release time
<froud> drasko: how to know what?
<froud> ogra: that's why we giv eyou xpath
<froud> you get just the nodes you must check
<froud> not the whole doc
<enrico> tricky thing is, the more we approach release, the more we need reviews from the devels
<enrico> however
* ogra never used xpath, has to look into it
<enrico> the more we approach release, the more we have to do without the devels
<ogra> yup
<enrico> froud: what for, xpath?
<froud> xpath makes a query
<drasko> froud, nevermind... I was wondering about devs. But ogra has been explanatory
<froud> in xml
<enrico> the good news is that if we write something wrong, we can always blame the devels who didn't check
<Burgundavia> we probably only need one dev checkover, at the beginning of stage 3
<enrico> (redirecting blame is an ancient italian art :)
<Burgundavia> after that, there is not supposed to be any new stuff going in
* Burgundavia looks around, whistles, turns red
<ogra> enrico: its german too :)
<drasko> enrico, gree
<drasko> a
<trickie> it would be nice to have something on the web, that wraps the current doc previews, and allows the devs to leave comments there?? comments??
<trickie> then they don't have to svn co
<enrico> Burgundavia: just say that you were short of sleep :)
<trickie> dunno just a spur of the moment thought
<Burgundavia> I am always short of sleep
<enrico> trickie: oh, it'd be nice
<froud> ogra: example. please check
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[3] /sect1[5] /sect2[2] /sect3[1]  - id="qg-openoffice-ooow" status="complete"	quickguide.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu/trunk/quickguide/quickguide.xml	1728:0
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[3] /sect1[5] /sect2[2] /sect3[2]  - id="qg-openoffice-oooc" status="complete"	quickguide.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu/trunk/quickguide/quickguide.xml	1737:0
<froud> /book[1] /chapter[3] /sect1[5] /sect2[2] /sect3[3]  - id="qg-openoffice-oooi" status="complete"	quickguide.xml	file:/home/sean/projects/ubuntu/trunk/quickguide/quickguide.xml	1746:0
<enrico> but there's no really good framework for annotating webpages afaik
<enrico> everyone would like that, though
<trickie> enrico, ok no prob
<Burgundavia> what about just a post to ubuntu-doc?
<enrico> froud: it's not trivial to generate those xpaths
<froud> well it is. just //sect3
<trickie> enrico, it could be done by script based on status
<froud> and you get the above
<enrico> froud: what do you mean with //sect3?
<froud> xpath starts with //
<trickie> enrico, that gets all sect3's
<froud> you want all sect3
<dholbach> froud: not always
<enrico> Ah, ok, sure
<dholbach> froud: you can also start with / - it depends
<froud> you can also make it specific to a section //sect3[2] 
<froud> will only show
<enrico> froud: ah, ok, you didn't get me
<dholbach> trickie: for the script you could use   xmllint --path
<froud> we already use xmllint in the validation
<trickie> well when we generate the status reports for each doc, we can also generate the xpaths for all sections marked with a certain status
<froud> .sh
<enrico> I mean, I know xpath: what I meant is that there's no trivial methods to make them (say, clicking to some text and getting the xpath query to it)
<dholbach> (although i'm not aware of what you're trying to do=
<enrico> and there's no easy way to open up the document and jump to a given xpath
<trickie> dholbach, thanks, exactly what i was thinking
<froud> I think treebeard does that
<enrico> treebeard?
<froud> but it is java and I know how you love java
<enrico> it's not in apt-cache search, so it doesn't exist :)
<froud> http://treebeard.sourceforge.net/
<froud> then you must suffer :-0
<enrico> However, the problem here is to point a specific section to the devels
<ogra> enrico: it does only mean that nobody pointed MOTU at it yet ;)
<ogra> treebeard ^
<enrico> ogra: well, right.  I've no familiar with that MOTU device, but it seems powerful
<trickie> i reckon generating the xpaths when we build status reports is fine for now
<froud> ok
<ogra> enrico: the Masters of the Universe ;)
<enrico> trickie: how do the devels get the text from the xpath, then?
<froud> xpath returns the nodes and the values
<enrico> froud: right, but that's not the best format for reading
<enrico> Aren't there, say, HTML anchors?
<froud> they can see it in the xml
<froud> they should hav ethe xml src right
<enrico> Like, making an HTML anchored link from the status page to the corresponding point in the real document?
<froud> enrico: xml is sans presentation
<froud> xpath takes you to the spot
<enrico> Well, if the devels are happy with xpath queries, then I'm fine
* jeffsch thinks the devels are born with that kind of knowledge that allows them to deal with xpath
<enrico> however, I fear it'd end up that they'd have to figure out how to get the text out of that, and would slip reviewing lower in their overful TODO-list
<trickie> wel we could also generate the HTML links in the status report
<enrico> at least, that's what my instinct tells me to do when I have my devel hat on :(
* froud points anyone who does not know XPath to http://www.zvon.org/xxl/XPathTutorial/General/examples.html
<enrico> Right.  To pull that all together
<enrico> I'd say: ask the devels for review
<enrico> if you find some who want xpath, give them xpath
<enrico> else, give them "street directions": "go to the title "Fooish bar", turn right, follow the path until the big tree, then go down a section and it's after the third comma: you can't be wrong"
<enrico> It all boils down to negotiating the preferred way with the other endpoint of the conversation
<ogra> yeah, with gps navigation :)
<froud> +1
<Burgundavia> and I say any sort of dev feedback is good feedback
<froud> +1
<enrico> depending on who this other endpoint is every time
<trickie> agreed
<Mithrandir> enrico: I'm not following the doc stuff closely, but are all docs in XML files?
<enrico> Mithrandir: yes
<froud> those in svn are
<enrico> Mithrandir: DocBook XML
<ogra> Mithrandir: yelp compatibility :)
<enrico> So, we have a QuickGuide to submit to the devels for review.  jdub's on it already, but he should be pinged
<Mithrandir> enrico: ok.  DocBook just makes me want to stab myself with a spoon or something.
<enrico> people, meet Mithrandir 
<trickie> hi
* Mithrandir ducks and hides
* froud hands Mithrandir a spoon
<enrico> Mithrandir is more of a Kernel guy than a documentation guy :)
* froud hands Mithrandir a spade
<Mithrandir> enrico: I don't do kernel stuff.  toolchain and low-level stuff is fine, though.
<enrico> Ok, he's a GCC hacker
* Mithrandir puts the spoon and spade into his toolbox.
<froud> Mithrandir: you will do just fine then
<Mithrandir> I guess so. (:
<enrico> Rusty said he became a kernel hacker because he couldn't understand what gcc hackers were talking about
<froud> b'sides you dont have to do the docbook stuff, just check the text :-)
<Mithrandir> gcc is simple.
<enrico> Mithrandir: right.  I can't even read to the end of the manpage :)
<enrico> well, I can, but not everyday
<Mithrandir> froud: most of my stuff doesn't really have any docs per se, it's porting work, but I guess I'll manage.
<Mithrandir> enrico: the source is easier to understand.
<Burgundavia> back to releasing hoary
<froud> yes
<froud> +1
<enrico> Burgundavia: yes
<Burgundavia> so we need a dev to check our stuff
<Burgundavia> what else?
<enrico> jdub's on it, so we're fine (provided we ping him)
<froud> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170074
<froud> the xref problem
<Burgundavia> ah yes
<froud> can one of the devs please fix this in yelp
<Burgundavia> now that 2.10 is out, can that be fixed for 2.10.1?
<enrico> mdz: that is Yelp needing fixing
<Burgundavia> doc team is yelping at you mdz
<enrico> Is there a way to open a bugzilla item on ubuntu linked to that bugzilla item on Gnome?
<Burgundavia> if that can't be fixed, where do we go from there?
<Burgundavia> enrico: you can just list it in the bug comments
<enrico> Burgundavia: ok
<Burgundavia> seb128 does that
<enrico> We can report that as a bug for Yelp, then give it to seb
<enrico> however, that report is not that easy to understand
<Burgundavia> a screenshot and code might be helpful
<Burgundavia> I will do that
<enrico> Burgundavia: that's great"
<enrico> Burgundavia: that's great!
<froud> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6899
<froud> the scrollkeeper/omf problem
<froud> how to get ubuntu in top level of yelp
<enrico> jdub was trying to figure it out
<enrico> however (guess?) we need to ping him :)
<froud> If those tow bugs can be closed then the docs are good for go after tech review
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-24
<Burgundavia> the yelp bug makes the docs almost unreadable, IMHO
<enrico> Right.
<Burgundavia> what if we don't get it fixed?
<froud> Plain HTML
<froud> :-)
<trickie> agreed
<froud> Any Web Browser Compatible
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> are we going to ship HTML anyway?
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: do you have a real help page where the yelp problem shows?
<enrico> Ok.  For translation we're waiting for feedback from the translation team
<Mithrandir> (so I don't have to browse around for it)
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: install quickguide
<enrico> Burgundavia: sure: in /usr/share/doc/<package>
<enrico> Mithrandir: package is ubuntu-quickguide
<trickie> enrico, i have also been looking into rebuilding xml from .po files, i'll keep ya psoted
<trickie> posted
<Burgundavia> look at  getting started --> login in the quickguide
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: users and groups and ubuntu update manager should not be a title like that
<enrico> trickie: so good!  Thanks!
<trickie> enrico, np at all!
<enrico> I think we have a clear schedule about releasing Hoary, now
<froud> one more thing
<enrico> froud: sure
<froud> trickie and I discussed BitTorrent
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: it's in the about ubuntu under other documentation, right?
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: yep
<froud> enrico: we need to finish it
<froud> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/status/qg-report.html
<enrico> froud: ok
<froud> problem is none of     us know how to get started with using it
<trickie> i have used it
<Burgundavia> what is important about bittorrent, if I understand, is that the launcher in the menu is for sharing stuff out
<froud> so I guess niether will users
<froud> when you fist start it you need to specify a file
<froud> and that's where I got stuck
<trickie> froud, a torrent file?
<froud> dunno I guess
<trickie> i can write this bit
<Burgundavia> trickie: no, it is looking for some sort of meta file to share stuff out I think
<froud> and add a screencapt
<enrico> How about we just ask on #ubuntu-users for people using BitTorrent?
<trickie> Burgundavia, really? i thought it was a client program
<Burgundavia> bitorrent is both
* froud is now as confused as ever
<Burgundavia> I just checked. It will take just a straight torrent
<Burgundavia> I stand corrected
<mdz> enrico: you need something from me?
<Burgundavia> but the users are almost never going to actually use it that way
<enrico> froud: BitTorrent is good for downlading.  It speeds things up by sharing what you downloaded already, so that you find many peoplet o download from
<Burgundavia> mostly they will click on links within their browsers, or double click on files in nautilus
<enrico> mdz: yesterday you asked if Yelp needs fixing: it doesn
<enrico> does
<froud> Ok, what ever so long as somebody can write it cooorrectly
<enrico> mdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170074
<mdz> enrico: ok, do you have a list?
<enrico> mdz: Burgundavia will post more info about htat bug
<enrico> mdz: then there's the "show our docs in the front" part that you said jdub is working on
<trickie> Burgundavia, you wanna do the torrent app?
<trickie> Burgundavia, i just use it like you have just tested
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I can do that
<froud> Burgundavia: thanks
<trickie> Burgundavia, i didn't know it was integrated into nautilus etc etc
<trickie> Burgundavia, excellent!
<Burgundavia> should be
<Burgundavia> if it isn't, it is a bug
<froud> enrico: that should be all for release requirements
<enrico> froud: good, I was about to say the same
<enrico> Third and last point
<enrico> .oO(I fear)
<enrico> post Hoary!
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: ok, I understand what the bug is now -- for some reason, I had two quick guides registered and the first was _really_ broken, so it took me a bit of time
<Burgundavia> Mithrandir: hmm
<Burgundavia> I spewed my mind
<Burgundavia> now I want to hear other peoples ideas
<froud> enrico: to yelp or not to yelp
<enrico> Discussing about post-hoary now is tricky
<enrico> that is, we risk talking forever
<froud> Discussion with Riddell 
<Burgundavia> that is why we discussed it last
<froud> on #kubuntu
<Riddell> hello
<froud> kde team would also like docs
<enrico> Hi Riddell !
<froud> enrico: Riddell likes Quick Guide
* Riddell ports yelp to KDE
<ogra> quick guide is great :)
<ogra> opposite to FAQ which is horrible
<froud> Riddell: would also like doc on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE
<ogra> (but thats my personal opinion)
<Riddell> if we could get that guide with KDE info in it that would be great, marked so that you can convert to HTML with KDE paragraphs or with gnome ones
<Burgundavia> ogra: that is faqguide from ubuntuguide.org?
<enrico> Oh, now that I think about it
<ogra> Burgundavia: which is as wrong as anything can be, yes
<enrico> We also have to consider if we want the FAQGuide in Hoary or not
<Burgundavia> ogra: good idea, but implementation
<Burgundavia> s/but/bad
<enrico> It's got two problems at least:
<enrico> 1) It covers warty
<enrico> 2) It's not in sync with what's on ubuntuguide.org
<froud> enrico: it would need concerted effort of a week
<Burgundavia> I would add 3. not in the ubuntu style
<ogra> enrico: its not ubuntu at all
<froud> enrico: for KDE do you think we can do K Quick Guide?
<Burgundavia> ie, use the default apps, the graphical ones, etc.
<enrico> I tried to reach Chua but he's not replying at the moment
<Riddell> froud: how do you mean?
<ogra> its originated from a redhat guide with very less changes
<enrico> He must be busy.  I hope nothing bad happened to him
<ogra> and will need a LOT of changes
<froud> Post hoary we should develop verion of quick guide for kde
<enrico> ogra: ??
<Burgundavia> have they stablised on apps for kbuntu hoary+1
<Burgundavia> ?
<enrico> ogra: the quickguide.org originated mainly from the wiki afaik
<froud> Burgundavia: doesnt matter
<trickie> froud, +1
* froud nods at trickie 
<Burgundavia> I don't use kde, but I don't see why we should exclude them
<ogra> enrico: telling a user to edit xorg.conf without telling him that he cant use any automated system tool that touches the file anymore is very bad manner
<Riddell> Burgundavia: we havn't stabalised on apps for hoary yet, but will do this week
<enrico> So, I'm considering proposing not to package the faqguide in Hoary after all
<Burgundavia> ogra: and not telling them about the graphical tool that does the job too
<ogra> there are special steps to take for such an edit
<ogra> Burgundavia+++
<Burgundavia> enrico: +1
<enrico> ogra: did you send a mail to Chua telling thim a better way for it?
<trickie> enrico, +1
<ogra> enrico: several, he always told me he would correct it, he never did
<ogra> that was at the beginning or warty
<Burgundavia> ok, but I feel there is a niche there that we should fill
<enrico> ogra: remember he had *Dengue fever*
* froud wonders if this can be done in time for hoary
<ogra> its good as an advanced guide for people who know what they are doing
* froud knows ploves took some tim eto do it
<enrico> ogra: that's quite a bad one to have.  It got him stuck quite severely
<Burgundavia> as ubuntuguide.org and the FAQ forums aren't giving good advice
<ogra> enrico: since when, we talked oin oct 2004 till nov 2004
<enrico> ogra: after the conf in Matar
<ogra> enrico: so we talked long before....
<enrico> He was fine after the Tsunami and for new Year's Day
<enrico> he got sick after that
<Burgundavia> so can we take the faqguide and ubuntuize it? I would be happy to lead this effort
<froud> enrico: FAQ GUIDE should be in Docbook FAQ format
<enrico> Burgundavia: I tried to sync with Chua to do that together
<ogra> enrico: i was doing a lot of support in #ubuntu at this time and was tired of fixing the broken systems that resulted from following the guide
<enrico> ogra: ok
<ogra> enrico: bob2 is still doing this support job, you guys should get him in the process
<froud> Burgundavia: can you do it in <!DOCTYPE faq
<Burgundavia> froud: I can learn
<enrico> ogra: support!
<ogra> yay
<froud> +1
<enrico> ogra: I didn't know there was someone doing support especially
<enrico> ogra: the docteam should really be in touch with people doing support
<ogra> enrico: i have the choice betwenn support and devel.... :) i moved on :)
<ogra> but will go into support again after release..... to fill the gap :)
* froud is concerned to stay desktop neutral in docs
<Burgundavia> froud: hard to do, when more and more of what you want to show people is gui-based
<enrico> ogra: it's imperative to have support in touch with docteam
<froud> I would like to know what people think of staying neutral
<Liz> neutral
<enrico> docteam can help support (such has, with relevant FAQs) and support helps the docteam (for example, providing the list of relevan questions)
<ogra> enrico: i know, thats why i attend this meeting ;)
<trickie> froud, it would be great, but i do not know exactly how we would do it
<froud> Th eproblem is the incompatability between khelpcenter and yelp
<enrico> what format does khelpcenter eat?
<froud> if we use things like ghelp:foo we get locked to yelp
<froud> html
<froud> xhtml
<trickie> froud, oh, you are talking about doc format? not screenshots etc
<froud> man
<enrico> froud: ok
<froud> yes
<froud> I dont care about hthe presentation layers
<froud> they dont exist
<froud> so long at the src can be used cross desktop I am happy
* enrico had a long day and is quite tired
<Burgundavia> so to round up this part:
<Burgundavia> 1. talk to support people
<trickie> I really like html based docs, i can use them anywhere, including when i am not using a linux desktop at all
<Burgundavia> 2. desktop neutral docs
<Burgundavia> 3. ubuntuize faqguide, with screenshots
<froud> 4. K Quick Guide
<Burgundavia> One further thing, we should have a better web presence for these docs
<froud> How do people feel about LearnLinux with Ubuntu
<trickie> froud, i like it
<froud> http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za/
<froud> The src is there
<trickie> 5. We need a trnaslation support policy too
<froud> I have a drop in my local and am customizing
<drasko> froud, I am interested
<froud> are people ok if I commit the src at some point
<Liz> ive already started that course
<froud> Liz: cool
<froud> I havked the code
<froud> I have forked the code
<froud> I also have a fork for a glossary database
<Burgundavia> cool idea
<jeffsch> it sounds like a great idea
<froud> http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/
<froud> this is a fork from TLDP Linux Dictionary
<froud> both docs are under CC-BY-SA 2.0
<froud> we have a dual license policy
<froud> anyone see any problems here
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> aside from the cc and gfdl are not compatible?
<froud> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamLicense
<Burgundavia> we can make an exception for this stuff
<froud> mako: ping
<enrico> the original idea ws to make a web alias
<froud> yes
<froud> enrico: do you still want it that way?
<enrico> but that hasn't been made yet
<froud> enrico: leanlinux needs some work to become ubuntu
<froud> but the base is debain
<froud> debian
<enrico> we basically have to decide what to put into the web alias site
<froud> how do you mean
<trickie> enrico, 'web alias site', what is that?
<enrico> froud: the web alias pointing at mako's pages, which does not exist yet, but was in Mako's and Elmo's 
<enrico> sotty:
<enrico> It was ot mako's and mine intentions
<froud> enrico: you lostme 
<enrico> froud: that's because I'm barely awake now
<enrico> you were asking about the web presence 
<froud> hey dude its 1:30 am and I now hav emy second wind
<enrico> I told the original way was to make a nice web alias pointing at mkako's wbespace
<froud> r we speaking about the same stuff here
<Burgundavia> why don't we meet again and discuss this
<trickie> Burgundavia, +1
<Burgundavia> we have some stuff decided
<enrico> wouldn't be a bad idea
<enrico> right.  We have everything for releasing Hoary
<jeffsch> it is very sunny here
<enrico> I do have one concern though
<enrico> that is:
<enrico> We now picked up rhythm by writing in the QuickGuide.  Now that's almost finished: how do we keep up teh rhythm?
<jeffsch> what is next thing that needs to be complete?
<trickie> I would like to start getting into the Admin guide
<froud> continue with either FAQ, ADMIN or USER
<froud> and or LearnLinux
<trickie> and also working with enrico to get translations working
<enrico> i'd also like to lay our hands on some upstream documentation
<froud> we have problems in that area
<jeffsch> and is it too early to think about a style guide?
<enrico> Like, improbing the Gnome User Manual and other existnig docu
<enrico> but yes, that'd change our process in sme way
<froud> upstream is scattered far and wide
<froud> today I wante dto fix stuff in synaptic
<froud> which repos to patch against
<froud> mako points to mvo
<froud> does mvo have own snapshot
<froud> or do I go to top src
<froud> https://oops.kerneljanitors.org/repos/synaptic/trunk/help/C/
<froud> this question arises time and again
<froud> which GNOME User Manual to Update
<froud> the one in gnome.org
<froud> or the one in some ubuntu repos
<froud> lord knows which one
<froud> working at the fringes changes our focus
<froud> away from ubuntu-doc
<trickie> so could we say our immediate concerns are FAQ, ADMIN, USER and LearnLinux?
<enrico> FAQ I'd like to coordinate with Chua before doing stuff
<trickie> not necessarily in that order
<froud> I go +1 on the list in http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocteamProjects
<froud> and if people want LearnLinux I will add it
<enrico> Peple, I can't make it
<trickie> yes
<enrico> It's been the 5th time I deleted garbage from the input line
<trickie> +1` me too
<froud> anyone else agree
<jeffsch> it is too sunny and warm here: I must go outside
<froud> enrico: go sleep
<enrico> garbage that came in because I was typing half-asleep, or just fell asleep before taking one finger off a key
<enrico> i'll pick up the logs tomorrow and make the minuites
<froud> ok
<trickie> ok... well lets call it quits for now
<froud> Burgundavia: r u +1
<froud> jeffsch: and you
<froud> Liz: and you
<jeffsch> +1
<enrico> I'd say thank you everyoen for attending, if you want to go on, I'll make the minutes of what I'll find in the logs
<froud> Ok thanks enrico 
<ogra> enrico: sleep well
<sm> hi all - can I ask one other thing, what's the preferred new naming scheme for the icon files in the wiki ? any constraints on those names which must be honoured ?
<trickie> enrico, sllep well!
<enrico> it's been a really good meeting
<trickie> sleep
<Mithrandir> I think somebody owes me beer.
<Liz> nite enrico
<Mithrandir> I've found and fixed the yelp bug.
* enrico hands Mithrandir a beer
* enrico hands Mithrandir LOTS of beers
<trickie> Mithrandir, awesome!
* froud passes Mithrandir a beer
<ogra> Mithrandir: youre the master 
<drasko> enrico, good nigh
<enrico> do please get back to sm about the naming scheme for icons
<Burgundavia> yep
<Liz> =1
<enrico> he made images work in Moin! 
<Liz> +1
* froud kicks enrico into bed
<enrico> now he just needs to know how to name them
* enrico rolls over to the bed
<Mithrandir> change /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/html/db2html-xref.xsl ; <xsl:apply-templates select="key('idkey', $endterm)" /> to <xsl:value-of select="key('idkey', $endterm)" />
<enrico> People, good night!
<sm> simplest think is IconBookmarksClosed -> BookmarksClosed.png, I'll do that then
<Mithrandir> did I tell you I don't like XSLT? (:
<jeffsch> good night enrico
<froud> Mithrandir: did you patch it
<Mithrandir> if somebody can verify that it DTRT for them, I'd appreciate it.
<Mithrandir> froud: it seems to do the right thing for me, but I'd like verification before uploading a fix
<froud> ok
<trickie> Mithrandir, im not on my hoary box... sorry
<Mithrandir> froud: can you make the change and verify that it works for you?
<Mithrandir> Burgundavia: or you?
<froud> yep hang ten
<trickie> well ladies and gentlemen, unless someone wants to talk more doc with me, i must bid a good day/night
<YokoZar> wait
<YokoZar> I just have something
<YokoZar> Ok, I'm writing a scrollkeeper OMF file to put the Wine documentation in a standard place so it's viewable from the help menu.  The trouble is I'm having trouble figuring out what category to place it in from the list at ( /usr/share/scrollkeeper/Templates/C/scrollkeeper_cl.xml ) - is it possible to add an entry to that list, or is there one I should pick from?
<YokoZar> Since I heard there's a doc meeting here...perhaps a doc team member can point me in the right direction?
<trickie> YokoZar, Sorry i have never seen or contemplated an OMF file in my life. think enrico (or Sean?) has been doing that for us
* Liz has no idea about OMF at all
<YokoZar> Well, how about this question then: when I go to the help menu and click applications, where should the Wine documentation show up?
<YokoZar> (this is what I'm configuring in the OMF file, I think)
<trickie> i am not sure, but i would have thought it would have been in system or something and not applications?
<trickie> YokoZar, really though, i have no idea
<YokoZar> Hmm, ok.  I'll just put it alongside the Evolution User guide and deal with it later when we have a better idea about how the Wine interface will look to the user
<froud> Mithrandir: I can confirm that it works
* froud hands Mithrandir a case of beer
<Mithrandir> froud: rock!
<froud> Mithrandir: thanks a million
<Mithrandir> can somebody who has a gnome bugzilla account submit http://err.no/patches/yelp_handle_endterm_db2html-xref.xsl.diff as a patch for it?
<froud> ok
* ogra opens the gate and waves in the beertruck for Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> it's so much easier to give people a patch than to say "please change foo in bar"
<Mithrandir> ogra: trying to drown me? :)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> Mithrandir: just put it in the storage ;)
<Mithrandir> my fridge is actually still quite full after all the beer I brought home after FOSDEM.
<mdke> is the doc meeting still active?
<Mithrandir> but, it's 0100 here now, so I'm off to bed.
* Liz just found out what OMF is ..heh
<Liz> nite Mithrandir
<Liz> im gonna go enjoy the sunshine here
<mdke> guess not huh
<trickie> mdke, just sorta stopped being a meeting
<trickie> but i think people are around
<mdke> bah
<mdke> i suck
<mdke> someone will make up minutes i guess?
<trickie> mdke, yep
<mdke> :)
<trickie> :)
<trickie> well i am outta here, see ya all!
<froud> Mithrandir:  done http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170074
<froud> well team good noght
<froud> night
<mdke> night mate
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-03-26
(mdz/#ubuntu-meeting) jdub is unlikely to be awake at this hour; I've pinged seb128
(mdz/#ubuntu-meeting) I don't feel confident that we can take a decision on this during this meeting
<Q-FUNK> my point is that Gnome might as well skip minor releases completely if we only ever release the first major release of every new version.
<mdz> I suggest that the issue be raised and discussed on ubuntu-devel so that we can get more input
* pitti strongly feels against a second stable branch
<ogra> pitti ++
<azeem> has there ever been a security issue with GNOME stuff?
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> evolution, for example
<dholbach> libxml2 too
<Q-FUNK> Keybuk: well, given how close to Hoary we are, might as well focus on that one.  that's how I would alter my proposal to mean $release-updates.
<smurfix> Q-FUNK: the proposal mentions Debian. Ubuntu isn't Debian, and some QA would still have to be done.
<pitti> and things like gnome-system-tools are vulnerability-prone as well
<smurfix> mdz ++
<Keybuk> Q-FUNK: but then we'd again be having to do security support for both pure-hoary and hoary-updates while at the same time doing breezy
<Q-FUNK> smurfix: you are aware that seb128 produces packages for both debian and ubuntu, right?
<mdz> Q-FUNK: will you start the discussion on ubuntu-devel?
<dholbach> breezy?
<Q-FUNK> mdz: gladly
<dredg> gnome is *big*. working it into a release is one thing. bludgeoning it into an already stable release is.. scary.
<mdz> ok
<mdz> any other business?
<Keybuk> is the wine thing at the bottom on the agenda?
<ajmitch> morning jeff
<ajmitch> no, it's not, it should have been
<mdz> is Scott Ritchie here?
<smurfix> Q-FUNK: He's still just one person.
<dholbach> yokozar
* ogra looks for YokoZar
<dholbach> he seems not to be here
<mdz> he doesn't seem to be online
<ogra> nope
<mdz> he mentions the winetools package
<mdz> is there actually an issue for this package?
<Keybuk> I'd like to see well-supported wine in main; but I'm nervous that people might not want to provide support for 18-month old versions of it
<ogra> which we will put in unioverse as soon as 3 MOTUs have reviewed it
<mdz> it is a new package which he would like to see in universe
<ogra> (according to our NEW policy)
<dholbach> it's not just winetools, but wine and wine-dev as well, ogra, am i right?
<mdz> ogra: ok, has there been any issue or delay with the review?  is there a backlog?
<mdz> well, there is a separate issue of whether we use Debian's wine packages or Scott's wine packages
<ogra> dholbach, no its currently just winetools
<azeem> wasn't the issue that somebody (YokoZar?) thought the Debian maintainer was too slow with new upstream releases?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> Mithrandir, raised a important point in the mailing list today
<dholbach> while the debian maintainer was ill or something
<mdz> support is not an issue at this point
<mdz> wine is in universe, and so we make no guarantees about it
<Q-FUNK> thatnk goodness we have redeundancy at least in chapter and *verse.
<mdz> the questions at hand, as I undertsand it, are: 1) do we include winetools, and 2) do we use Debian's wine or Scott's wine
<mdz> 1) seems obvious; we should include winetools pending review
<ogra> these two schould be independent
<Kamion> Q-FUNK: note that we do not only release the first major release of every new version; we have the space between preview and final release to catch minor updates
<azeem> Debian's wine seems to be maintained again
<Kamion> (sorry to go back, I was coding)
<azeem> and Ove Kaaven probably knows a lot about it
<dholbach> my point was to get both yokozar and the debian maintainer of wine in a meeting to hear their points
<mdz> if the review process represents a bottleneck, we should address that, because we want this to go smoothly for new packages
<ogra> yup, and the maintainer said he would look at scotts package soon in a changelog entry
<stockholm> dholbach: i would not do that.
<mdz> dholbach: that sounds reasonable
<mdz> neither of them are present here
<Kamion> stockholm: can you elaborate?
<stockholm> dholbach: ove kaaven is *extremly* shy
<herve> YokoZar could also co-maintain wine with Debian's maintainer
<stockholm> he is very awkward to talk to inperson
<ogra> thats what i suggest since about a month herve 
<stockholm> i would recommend anything but in-person meeting
<smurfix> stockholm: on IRC too ?
<ogra> stockholm, online
<stockholm> no, on irc is better
<stockholm> much better
<mdz> I suggest that we invite both of them to attend one of our scheduled meetings
<Kamion> I think that's what we were talking about to start with :)
<stockholm> sorry, then
<ogra> sorry for the flood:
<smurfix> mdz: makes sense. ideally these two should combine their efforts.
<ogra>  * Mention Scott Ritchie's Wine packages in README.Debian.
<ogra>     Since I have been sick a lot lately, I have not had time
<ogra>     to review these packages yet, but I can at least mention
<ogra>     them. After I bring the current Debian packages up to
<ogra>     date, I'll review his packages, and if I like them, I may
<ogra>     turn over maintainership to him. Until then, I'm only
<ogra>     mentioning his packages with caution.
<ogra> thats from the debian wine package
<mdz> ogra: will you send an email to both of them and invite them to the CC meeting in one week?
<ogra> yup
<ajmitch> ogra: and he's done the bringing debian packages up to date
<mdz> then we can discuss this more meaningfully, with them present
<ogra> yup
<herve> it's more reasonable to offer help rather than arguing about Debian not being productive enough
<ogra> yup
<mdz> ok, any other business?
<sivang> seems not
<mdz> meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, all
<sivang> thanks mdz
<dholbach> thanks mdz
<ajmitch> thanks mdz
<ogra> thank you mdz 
* amu waves
<ogra> elmo `
<ogra> elmo, did you recognize i got approved for main uploads ? any action required for that ?
<elmo> ogra: yes, mail keyring@ - I'll deal with it tomorrow morning
<sivang> ogra: the wine packages could use more help ?
<Treenaks> elmo: same with my universe stuff?
<fabbione> ogra: you need to bend over and offer yourself to elmo
<dholbach> hahahaaaaa
<ogra> fabbione, i thought zhaz was your part
<fabbione> ogra: i can't do everything ;)
<ogra> lol
<sivang> fabbione: LOL
<fabbione> i had my share of elmo to have my DD account :P
<ogra> *G*
<crimsun> Treenaks: yes, same.
<Treenaks> crimsun: :)
<ogra> Treenaks, crimsun you heard what fabbione said ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: yeah, but you're our fearless MOTU leader
<Treenaks> ogra: so you can do it FOR us
<ogra> lol
<sivang> fabbione: so that's why people have been complaining about the DAM ? ;-)
<dholbach> Treenaks: don't be such a sissy :-)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: weren't you appointed as well? :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: hey, you're german, you're used to it!
<dholbach> Treenaks: used to what?
<Treenaks> dholbach: abuse, in any sort shape and/or form
<dholbach> oh... i didnt realize :-)
* dredg laughs
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-20
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-m]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by Seveas
<dAndy> l
* `NeRVaL hmmmm
<llODxCOll> testes
<Xaero_Vincent> Is Ubuntu going to ever have a new search feature like Vista's instant search and MacOS X Spotlight? That would be really cool I think.
<Xaero_Vincent> instant file searching as u type...
<Xaero_Vincent> i hear the documentation search is going to be drastically faster in Dapper... so Im just wondering
<ajmitch> this channel is only used for meetings, sorry
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board Meeting
* lilo waves
<JaneW> hello
<JaneW> Edubuntu Meeting goes check-in now
<JaneW> s/goes/goers/
* jelkner is Jeffrey Elkner
<spacey> hi
<JaneW> hi ogra, kjcole, jelkner, pips1_away, highvoltage, Yagisan, spacey 
<ogra> hi
<JaneW> is flint joining us today?
* Yagisan waves hello
<JaneW> ok let's hit it
* ogra twiddles thumbs ...
<JaneW> jelkner: you here for long?
<jelkner> 30 minutes
<JaneW> can we start with tech, or do we need to start with docs?
<jelkner> then students come
<ogra> tech update: made flight 5 :) thats all 
<JaneW> ok docs first
<kjcole> hi all
<JaneW> ogra: you not getting off that lightly! :P
<ogra> my ubuntu tasks are taking all my time currently ...
<jelkner> things are moving forward with the cookbook
<JaneW> jelkner: \o/
<ogra> JaneW, i didnt do more :)
<jelkner> and now we have an extra 6 weeks, yes?
<JaneW> is the 6 weeks decided yet?
<JaneW> I don't think so
<ogra> jelkner, we're discussing a 6 week delay, if and only if we would do that, the doc deadline would move 
<JaneW> but I missed the TB last night
<ogra> TB had nothing to decide
<jelkner> i thought that was discussed yesterday
<JaneW> there hasn;t been a definite call either way yet AFAIK
<JaneW> jelkner: it was discussed
<ogra> we made the proposal for a new schedule *if* we postpone 
<JaneW> at length
<JaneW> the decision is still pending though
<ogra> (we == TB in that case)
<jelkner> for edubuntu that would be *great*
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not really
<flint> JaneW, I will find out.
<JaneW> it's a fairly strong possibility though
<jelkner> yes, really
<JaneW> we can not change our goals
<ogra> edubuntu is ready and on track for releasing april 20th 
<jelkner> a june yearly release is what we need
<JaneW> no new features will be accepted
<ogra> there is nothing i can do anyway ...
<jelkner> i understand
<jelkner> but the june release date would be better for the future
<JaneW> only exceptions for thing that were meant to be in anyway, like espresso and l10n
<ogra> the freezes will stay (apart from ui freeze for polish) so there is not much edubuntu gains
<JaneW> jelkner: it's a once of change
<JaneW> s/of/off
<JaneW> it would be back to April next year
<ogra> and it will only this one release that will change it 
<jelkner> why?
<ogra> the dapper+1 release will be back on schedule for oct
<flint> this will give use time to make "dapper docs" :^)
<JaneW> flint: yes it would
<ogra> so in fact its very bad, since we wont likely get localdevices in oct either 
<jelkner> why april?
<ogra> (time for dapper+1 is to short for big changes)
<jelkner> for edubuntu, a june release is *much* better
<JaneW> ok we can't argue whether it should or shouldn't happen - here. The town halls were held, and the TB and CC will weigh in and a decision will be made
<ogra> jelkner, yes. but its ontly a one tier 
<JaneW> we will have to deal with it either way
<ogra> and cripples the next release
<ogra> *timer
<Yagisan> jelkner: edubuntu is married to the ubuntu release. It can't get divorced.
<spacey> can we get back to the cookbook stuff? :p
<jelkner> i understand
<JaneW> ogra: unless you have time to start on it pre Dapper release? But I guess not, since you get sucked into ubuntu work?
<ogra> from a ubuntu perspective its fine, from an edubuntu perspective i'm very unhappy
<jelkner> so i was hoping this june thing would become permanent
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<JaneW> jelkner: well it won't - sorry
<ogra> see my tech update above :)
<JaneW> ok so back to the cookbook
<JaneW> we MAY havenmore time
<ogra> screensaver will draw my time the next weeks ..
<JaneW> which will assist with completeing the cookbook
<spacey> i think we need another call for more writers.
<spacey> jelkner: that cookbook worksheet still has emty status columns.
<JaneW> we can;t count on it until the decision is made though...
<spacey> quite hard to determine what has to be done
<JaneW> jelkner: you said it is going well...?
<ogra> if we postpone, i might have spare time after april 20th ...
<jelkner> yes, we have recipes on backup
<flint> edubuntu may be married to ubuntu, but ubuntu is staying out late...  we do not know it may become permanent.
<ogra> flint, it wont
<ogra> we know
<JaneW> jelkner: cookbook update please...
<jelkner> and another one coming on content filtering
<ogra> flint, instead dapper+1 will only have 4.5 months for development
<jelkner> and one more on multimedia stuff in the works
<ogra> and we'll have to cut down features a lot
<spacey> jelkner: what software do you offer in the content filtering? 
<JaneW> jelkner: another what on content filtering? I don't follow?
<jelkner> squid guard and dan's guardian
<spacey> JaneW: cookbook part
<JaneW> jelkner: oh recipes
<jelkner> yes, recipes
<JaneW> great, sounds good :)
<spacey> but the basic ingredients are still not there
<jelkner> spacey ?
<JaneW> jelkner: is the end in sight yet? or is the task still monumental?
<spacey> the basic stuff
<spacey> of the cookbook
<ogra> what is the backup one using ? 
<spacey> is missing
<flint> spacey, yes, but the concept is there!
* ogra hopes not mondo/mindi
<jelkner> JaneW: the "end" of a cookbook is *never* reached ;-)
<spacey> its really fancy you write up stuff like content filtering but if you dont cover proper installation i think you miss your point
<jelkner> we just keep collecting recipes as we go
<JaneW> jelkner: that's encouraging ;)
<JaneW> jelkner: sounds like a Harry Potter book :P
<flint> ogra, i agree that mondo/mindi is a bit rough... but what are the alternatives?
<jelkner> lol
<JaneW> jelkner: but we get to a 'can be published' point at some stage I hope?
<spacey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet <-- still empty
<JaneW> spacey: good point
<flint> JaneW, you knew I would get my HP licks into this eh?
<jelkner> JaneW: me, too, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it
<ogra> flint, jelkner, sivang is developing a backup tool that should hit universe these days and will be the official backup solution for dapper+1
<ogra> please talk to him
<JaneW> jelkner: I was just wondering if we know how far away that bridge is...?
<JaneW> ogra: if mdz allows it in. It's a bit late.
<ogra> JaneW, universe
<JaneW> ogra: yup
<flint> ogra, that is worth knowing, thanks.  got any info or a url beyond this?
<ogra> mondo/mindi is nothing i like to have in the cookbook
<jelkner> JaneW: as you can see from what ogra just said, we are writing a desciption of a moving target
<ogra> it requires to compile kernel stuff and uses incompatible kernels 
<jelkner> i'm not so sure publication off the web is such a good idea
<jelkner> things change too fast
<ogra> nothing we should do to teachers
<spacey> dapper doesn't change
<jelkner> an on the web cookbook is more useful because it is easier to keep up to date
<flint> ogra, one of the most unsettling things abou the cookbook, it that it is there for the users, and many parts will not please developers.
<ogra> jelkner, moving target ? the backup spec was developed in motreal ...
<spacey> flint: what part will not please developers?
<jelkner> ogra: is that ready to go now?
<JaneW> flint: I don't see that as a problem
<ogra> flint, mondo/mindi is a high level administrator tool ... nothing for teachers/user
<JaneW> I think the book is more for the users
<jelkner> we can only write "recipes" for what works
<ogra> jelkner, please talk to sivang 
<JaneW> devs know how to find and ask for info
<JaneW> users don;t, so an compiled book for them to read is best for them
<flint> ogra, I am on sivang, how do I dig him up?
<jelkner> ogra: what is sivang's email?
<ogra> flint, he is on IL time, usually in #ubuntu-devel 
<spacey> jelkner: i don't see any moving targets or stuff that doesn't work at all in the cookbookworksheet. but its still almost empty
<kjcole> should we be writing the cookboook to specs?  was the backup spec in montreal targeted at dapper or dapper+1? 
<jelkner> spacey: than pick a recipe and write it! ;-)
<spacey> jelkner: i did
<jelkner> good
<ogra> jelkner, flint, sivan@piware.de
<jelkner> thanks!
<spacey> but i can't write all
<flint> excellent
<jelkner> that's how the cookbook will get filled in
<jelkner> spacey: indeed
<jelkner> you can only do what you have time for
<jelkner> this is a volunteer effort
<JaneW> jelkner: agreed
<jelkner> so we can only take what comes
<spacey> kjcole, jelkner i remember last week you wanted to fill in the status column of the worksheet so we have a better understanding of the status and the work to be done
<ogra> even if the tool isnt ready, please dont promote mondo/mindi as a default (its good to have it in a *very advanced* section thjough)
<jelkner> spacey: yes, we couldn't meet last sunday
<JaneW> jelkner: it would help to have the status column populated, can you do that?
<flint> ogra, the nice thing abou this user cookbook framework is that ther is a plug-ability to it.  unplug one reciepe and plug in another...
<spacey> jelkner: when that status stuff is there its easier to ask other people to contribute since its more clean what still needs to be done
<jelkner> ogra: we feel some solution is better than none, even if it is not ideal
<JaneW> jelkner: it would help for volunteers wanting to help to see where input is needed
<jelkner> the cookbook is aimed at end users
<kjcole> That's why the worksheet is there.
<JaneW> jelkner: yes I agree
<flint> when sivan has a receipe that works we put it in the cookbook.
<jelkner> it could provide solutions that are not really ready for prime time, but which are essential to solviing folks problems in the present
<JaneW> jelkner: can you and kjcole fill in the status? or send it to me in a mail and I can do it on the wiki...
<jelkner> so it will change as better solutions come available
<ogra> jelkner, flint, the default reciepe should be a good explanation to set up tar/cronjobs/cdrecord and some scripts ... please dont provide users with rocket science if they only need a bycicle 
<jelkner> kjcole: can we agree to do that this weekend?
<ogra> i agree that mondo/mindi is a good thing for people who are unix admins since some years
<jelkner> ogra: you don't need to fear that
<ogra> great :)
<kjcole> jelkner, sounds good
<jelkner> one big advantage i have is that i'm not nearly smart enough for rocket science
<JaneW> I would say the point of the cookbook is to 1) Help USERS to understand Edubuntu, and how it is set up and works and
<jelkner> if i can understand, chances are most other people can too
<JaneW> 2) to reduce the support requirements, but fullfilling point #1
<ogra> JaneW, but since some of our users need to be the admins as well, it gets a bit blurry
* pips1 finally caught up with the discussion
<pips1> hi
<JaneW> ogra: true, but admins may not need it
<ogra> so we should provide the easiest ways to achieve the tasks ...
<JaneW> ogra: someone who KNOWS can always find the info elsewhere, so if the info is a bit beneither them it's ok
<JaneW> we can't cater for everyone
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ok, so with all that said, is it going ok jelkner and kjcole ?
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> i think it is
<JaneW> excellent! Thank-you :)
<JaneW> I have faith that it's going to ROCK
<jelkner> cya next week then, same time, same channel...
<JaneW> thanks
<JaneW> bye
<Yagisan> kjcole: jelkner: need some docs on securing edubuntu ?
<jelkner> Yagisan: how do you mean?
<kjcole> Yagisan, if written with teachers in mind, sure.  Why not?  (Just keep the intended audience in  mind.  Many who may be a bit timid about Linux.)
<Yagisan> jelkner: securing against malicious users etc. I can't find server security in your cookbook draft
<ogra> jelkner, Yagisan is security cionsultant
<spacey> Yagisan: i don't think the Edubuntu cookbook can go much further then setting proper limits.conf
<JaneW> Yagisan: thanks for offer to help, can you and jelkner discuss in #e or the mailing list?
<Yagisan> I can assist with basic documentation in that area
<Yagisan> I'll be in #edubuntu If you'd like it
<JaneW> Yagisan: any doc help would be greatfully accepted
<flint> Yagisan, my deepest condolences on your profession of being a security consultant.  I have don this.
<JaneW> gratefully too
<jelkner> great, now i need to get ready for the arrival of the munchgins...
<JaneW> ok, so flight 5 is out
<JaneW> how's it looking?
<flint> ogra, what is the url for flight 5?  I would like to test it.
<pips1> flint, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentEdubuntu
<JaneW> ogra: did the announcement page get updated?
<ogra> flint, the latest link to a dev release is always in the #edubuntu channel topic 
<ogra> JaneW, there were not enough noticeable changes imho, and Mithrandir already covered edubuntu in his announcement 
* pips1 updated the links in the above wiki page
<flint> pips1, thanks, I just did not have it handy, Olli, I had a feeling you had it in the same place...
<ogra> flint, if i release a flight i update the topic immediately
<ogra> so safest is to look there 
<JaneW> ogra: I saw Mithrandir's announcement linked to edubuntu too
<ogra> yep
<flint> ogra, gotcha, and now i see it.
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> ogra: so there aren't many changes
<kjcole> flint also  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
<JaneW> bug fixes?
<pips1> ogra, re flight5, did you mainly fix that manual update ssh keys step, or where there other changes too?
<ogra> JaneW, only small ones and the one that required you to run ltsp-update-sshkeys after install .... 
<ogra> so currently it should work as breezy did ...
<ogra> wrt install
<JaneW> ok
<flint> ogra, do you think that will fix the login bug?
<ogra> it does
<JaneW> what else need to be done?
<flint> ogra, excellent!!!
<ogra> artwork 
<JaneW> are you more or less done with the dev now?
<ogra> i need some days time to jump on the artwork 
<JaneW> you mentioned colours not working well...?
<ogra> yes, only bugfixing ...
<JaneW> ogra: cool, well done
<ogra> they are still adjusted in ubuntu, lets see what comes out
<pips1> ogra, are the bugfixes mainly stuff that can be seen in launchpad, or do you have a list of bugs of your own?
<ogra> i get ltsp fixes from debian, our ltsp package was added to debian testing yesterday
<ogra> thats very helpful ...
<JaneW> ogra: ok, just keep an eye on it, cos breezy edubuntu looked good (even if a small minority doesn't think so), so we need to make sure we are distinctive
<ogra> pips1, usually i encounter the bugs locally and fix them immediately :)
<pips1> ic
<ogra> pips1, there are only 2 or 3 user reported bugs in LP
<ogra> (for ltsp)
<JaneW> ogra: not sure if that is efficient or lazy ;)
<JaneW> *joking*
<pips1> JaneW, give that man a break! 
<ogra> JaneW, very efficient, but it misses out user bugs ... but unless i get reports i have nothing to fix
<pips1> ah!
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<flint> ogra, how is malone working out on your end?
<JaneW> pips1: I think he knows it was said in jest :)
<ogra> so either ltsp is perfectly bugfree or users are shy :)
<pips1> ok, sure :-)
<ogra> flint, great using it daily
<flint> ogra, or no one is testing...
<flint> ogra, that is what I thought... no more bugzilla at all.
* JaneW was a little concerned about Burgrundavia's comments, but that's a bit OT
<ogra> since bugzilla is nonexistent it would be hard to use it :)
<JaneW> ogra: I think we must post more calls for testing on the mailing list
<flint> It is out there, just not for this.
<JaneW> speaking of which we need to discuss the mailing list name
<ogra> lets just call it edubuntu ...
<pips1> ogra, +1
<JaneW> does everyone agree we should change the 'edubuntu-devel' list to 'edubuntu'
<spacey> yup
<JaneW> ok, so how does that happen?
<JaneW> as per that mail to the list?
<ogra> JaneW, jdub
<ogra> he needs to create the new one ... then we need to subscribe everyone from -devl to it 
<JaneW> does everyone have to update their saved address only?
<jdub> change or add a new list?
<ogra> then we can delete -devel 
<ogra> jdub, name channge
<jdub> would it be useful to keep devel for those discussions?
<JaneW> jdub: the proposal is to change  'edubuntu-devel' list to 'edubuntu'
<ogra> we want it to be edubuntu instead of edubuntu-devel
<JaneW> since ppl are scared to post on 'devel'
<spacey> and its not really a devel channel anyway :p
<jdub> the rough standard we currently have would suggest edubuntu-users - how's that?
<ogra> jdub, not really the terffic is low enough for both ...
<JaneW> and it's an all purpose list as our community is small still
<kjcole> +1 edubuntu-devel ->  edubuntu
<ogra> jdub, it shall cover devel as well as users, so calling it -users might be confudsing
<JaneW> jdub: we would splity into devel and users if the traffic grows enough to warrant it.
<JaneW> ogra: you and I have the same speed-typing bug ;)
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> jdub: so what's the verdict?
<pips1> I'd like to talk a bit about the website...
<JaneW> pips1: yes, that's on my list
<jdub> ok, can i suggest we create an edubuntu-users list, subscribe everyone to it, and you guys can carry out most discussion there, until you need to start pushing stuff over to -devel? i don't want to be doing things out of standard, particularly when it's going to change again (hopefully soon)
* pips1 waits for his queue
<JaneW> jdub: ok, I can live with that
<JaneW> ogra: ?^
<ogra> hmm
* jdub tries very hard to keep consistency :-)
<ogra> does it really need to be -users ? 
<pips1> hmm too
<ogra> ok, then i'd opt for having -users and -devel rather 
<JaneW> ++
<ogra> even if it doesnt make sense with the amount of traffic
<JaneW> ogra: we can push them to the same mail folder...
<ogra> sure
<jdub> ogra: by not doing -users, it means we're inconsistent now, and when you decide to split, it's far less likely that people would want to rename, so we'd be permanently inconsistent :)
<spacey> you gonna subscribe everyone on both lists?
<spacey> or move everyone to users
<JaneW> spacey: hrm...
<spacey> and let them subscribe to devel again?:P
<JaneW> yup, move everyone to users and let ppl sub to devel if they want to...
<jdub> (kubuntu had both lists to start too)
<ogra> spacey, everyone to both and leave it up to them to unsubscribe from one ? 
<jdub> ogra: yeah, i think it's easier to do that
<ogra> yep
<spacey> yeah probably best
<JaneW> I prefer my way, else well get dozens of 'take me off this list' mails
<ogra> it will break mail filters though ..
<spacey> they subscribed to devel anyway
<spacey> :)
<jdub> JaneW: oh, later on when e-d starts being used?
<JaneW> whatever
<ogra> can we postpone the decision ? 
<JaneW> jdub: we'll mail you :)
<ogra> and ask on the list for the preferred methiod ? 
<jdub> heh, ok
<JaneW> jdub: thanks for the input
* JaneW cues pips1 
<pips1> ok
<pips1> highvoltage is on the ball the design/theme
<pips1> I am working on the content structure
<pips1> the basic idea is that we want to be very inviting for non-geeks
<pips1> I wrote up some ideas about the subject a while ago: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
<JaneW> pips1: I saw what highvoltage had done yesterday, looking nice
<JaneW> I agree with your idea
<ogra> JaneW, have you also checkeed pips1s example setup ? 
<ogra> its very good
<JaneW> it needs to be encouraging and non-threatening and very intuitive
<pips1> drupal is a very flexible tool... there are many things you can do... but I would like to start it "small" and only grow as needed, instead of offering too much functionality to confuse user unnecessarily
<JaneW> ogra: briefly yes :)
<JaneW> pips1: yes, agreed
<pips1> one thing that's on my mind
<pips1> newbies are very happy to use forums
<JaneW> yes
<JaneW> BUT
<JaneW> they need moderation
<pips1> I remember someone mentioned that they will create a new forum for edubuntu over at ubuntuforums
<JaneW> and we can;t expect ogra to provide support there as well...
<pips1> JaneW, yes, that's what I am getting at
<spacey> hook it up to the mailinglist?
<spacey> like they did with others
<JaneW> ok, I'll back off ;)
<ogra> JaneW, you wont get me reading/using a forum :)
<JaneW> ogra: good :P
<spacey> didn't they hook up ubuntu-users with a forum?
<ogra> the prob is that people with only halfbrewed knowledge often give wrong help in forums (at least i see that in the ubuntu forums) 
<pips1> so I wonder: we could have a forum on the new edubuntu site, but keep the discussion on non-technical subjects, ie everything that has to do with the operating system, desktop, blablabla will be in the ubuntuforums, BUT we could have some "educational" topic on the edubuntu website forum, what do you think?
<Yagisan> ogra: so polite
<ogra> and that dves very seldom handg around in forums to fix that
<spacey> say again? :)
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, i'm biund to the CoC, you know :P
<flint> ogra, one of the great un-answered issues is the idea of developoer-support before you can think about user-support...
<ogra> *bound
<ogra> flint, thats what edubuntu-devel was thought for
<pips1> ?
<ogra> on a sidenote and a bit OT, edubuntu was on german TV last week :) http://80.237.148.5/cebit.avi
<JaneW> pips1: might be good for edu content discussions and curriculum stuff and sharing...
* pips1 thinks that his idea went past everyone's head
<pips1> :-)
<flint> ogra, I understand, did it work?  or do you have random people giving out bad advice on the edubuntu channels?
<ogra> pips1, thats why we called it -devel first place
<JaneW> pips1: did you see my comment?
<pips1> JaneW, that's what i was thinking... but there are already other site that are very dedicated to educational topics too... 
<JaneW> pips1: and ppl can discuss the latest edu app they found etc
<ogra> flint, i'm observing the ML and #edubuntu and #edubuntu-de very closely ... only if one slips through so ...
<JaneW> pips1: yes but our users may not know them...
<flint> ogra, you are like hercules at the gate.  but even you have to sleep.
<flint> ogra, that is no solution.
<ogra> sadly, yes
<pips1> JaneW, yes, maybe that should be the focus on our "own" forum, what edu *apps* do they want to see in edubuntu...
<flint> ogra, we need a command "apt-make ogra-clones"
* ogra looks for his caffeine drip 
<JaneW> ogra: that's ubuntu not edubuntu :P
<Mez> JaneW, surely it wouldnt be too hard to link to other forums regarding curriculum etc etc?
<spacey> nice video fragment :)
<ogra> :)
<flint> spacey, where?
<spacey> <ogra> on a sidenote and a bit OT, edubuntu was on german TV last week :) http://80.237.148.5/cebit.avi
<spacey> german is so cute
<ogra> i like when they say "response from schools is appreciated and expected" :)
<pips1> Mez, yes, we just provide links to dedicated sites, and keep the stuff on our site relevant to Education + Edubuntu, that's what I was thinking
* Riddell likes how that video has KDE logos in the background
<ogra> hehe
<spacey> pips1: yeah thats great
<spacey> pips1: no need to duplicate ubuntu stuff
<ogra> Riddell, so where are the Kedubuntu people ... i want to drop kdeedu :)
<Mez> Riddell, I was thinking that
<Mez> lol - kedubuntu sounds like a headache waiting to happen
<pips1> so, do people think that an integrated forum on the new edubuntu site is something we want?
<spacey> pips1: you can always do it later
<Seveas> Edkubuntu
<ogra> pips1, nope, but its something users will like :) 
<JaneW> ah now that I have the WHOLE clip I see edubuntu ;)
<ogra> i think our audience is pretty different from the general ubuntu forum users
<flint> cebit is big time...
<ogra> so i think it makes sense to have our own forum
<kjcole> should be kid-ubuntu, and you could even  have a  superhero / cowboy  'Look!  It's Kid  Ubuntu!'
<kjcole> ;-)
<JaneW> or id oubuntu
<pips1> ogra, right
<spacey> ogra: which kind of end-users do you want to target it at. the endusers that deploy edubuntu or the end-end users who actually use it.
<JaneW> kjcole: I like it!
<ogra> the teachers ... the students ...
<Mez> spacey - or the end-end-end users (the kids)
<pips1> so ogra, would you mind checking in on our "own" forum then? against what you said before in general regarding forums? ;-)
<spacey> ok thats great
<spacey> so really no technical stuff then
<spacey> besides some openoffice tips and tricks
<ogra> spacey, support ...
<spacey> and some tips for linux games
<flint> JaneW, you neve liked my Harry Potter/ magic thing, i think you are playing kevin as your favorite...
<spacey> :P
<ogra> that will include tech stuff
<spacey> ogra: but end-end users don't do that stuff
<flint> spacey, I think they are receipes...
<Mez> pips1, see /query
<ogra> pips1, i'll have to fight me into it i guess
<JaneW> flint: it was your handicapped duck I didn't like!
<ogra> spacey, ? 
<spacey> ogra: the end users who use edubuntu daily dont do techinal stuff
<flint> JaneW, that cut, very deep, my art rep is gone!
<flint> \:^)
<JaneW> ok our official time is up
<spacey> the guy or girl who administrators the edubuntu machine does
<ogra> spacey, but the teachers using it might have tech questions
<pips1> sorry, guys, i need to run, I have a meeting!
<flint> thanks all.  
<pips1> good input though, thanks!
<JaneW> pips1: ok thanks, I think a small forum is good
<ogra> spacey, and the students might rather have app related ones
<JaneW> we still need to decide what to put in it though
<flint> Yagisan, we might want to talk security. email flint@flint.com
<pips1> cu next wed
<JaneW> ty
<Mez> ogra: you have the people who set it up and admin it - the teachers and the pupils/students
<ogra> ciao pips1 and thanks
<spacey> ogra: hmm yeah and i forget you can also do desktop installs
<JaneW> thanks everyone
<Mez> what an annoying setup
<ogra> spacey, yup
<JaneW> and thanks for a better controlled discussion today
<flint> sksk
<Yagisan> flint: no worries. I'll add you to my contacts list
<spacey> JaneW: i think it was still quite messy ;p
<JaneW> less bickering and general disruption :)
<JaneW> spacey: I agree
<ogra> Mez, the first two are often the same
<JaneW> I said LESS
<JaneW> it;s a start
<spacey> :D
<Mez> ogra true :D
<ogra> Mez, and are rather teachers then techs
* JaneW is going to hire Seveas for next week's meeting
<Seveas> que?
<JaneW> he knows how to keep tight control of a mob
<spacey> JaneW: yeah he was spying on us anyway :P
<Seveas> ah
<JaneW> heh
<Mez> ogra: thanks for fixing that bug up in xscreensaver btw - 
<Mez> it was nice for it to throw off an edubuntu presentation
<ogra> which one ? i fixed a ton the last week :)
<Mez> *sighs*
<JaneW> Seveas: the edubuntu meetings are notoriously messy ;)
<Mez> ogra: the planet feed one
<ogra> ah
<Mez> where "wave your bullshit wand with me"
<ogra> thats not fixed yet :)
<Mez> decided to scroll across my screen during a presentation
<ogra> so be careful ...
<Mez> :D
<cusco> hi
<cusco> how about the meeting?
<cusco> is dapper being delayed?
<ogra> Seveas, !!
<Riddell>  /mode +b cusco
<Seveas> cusco, that was yesterday - please see wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary
<cusco> ok thanks
<Seveas> ogra/Riddell - relax - he's the first oen today
<cusco> sorry I was away
<Seveas> one*
<ogra> oki
<ogra> and we are done anyway i think
<Seveas> (nice type - oen is dutch for stupid person ;))
<Kaja> 8D
<spacey> ogra: where is that cebit.avi hosted? on a dsl line or?
<ogra> nope, a vserver i own ...
<ogra> my play adound box ... with free traffic
<spacey> enough bandwith?
<ogra> *around
<spacey> wanted to blog about it for some extra exposure
* JaneW goes to stretch
<ogra> dunno, i never stresstested it ...
<spacey> but don't want to rape some box
<spacey> :p
<Riddell> ogra could put it on people.ubuntu.com
<spacey> although i'm not that popular :p
<ogra> go ahaead, worst case i'll put it on people.u.c
<ogra> Riddell, its a good opportunity to test the vserver ;)+
<spacey> in my dreams that my blog is that popular you can stresstest :p
<ogra> so do we close ? 
<JaneW> yes
<ogra> spacey, you are on planet, arent you ? 
<spacey> not yet
<JaneW> yes
<Seveas> he should be
<spacey> need to poke jdub for that
<JaneW> oh, I thought I saw you there?...
<ogra> yes
<ogra> spacey, DOIT !
<Seveas> JaneW, he's on the dutch planet ;)
<ogra> dutch planet ? 
<ogra> haha
<spacey> planet ollanda
<ogra> you are one of the smalles countries and have a planet ? :)
<JaneW> spacey: ok, I def saw you somewhere, I must have been snooping around ;)
<ogra> beware the dutch taking over the world :)
<Seveas> ogra, planet.ubuntu-nl.org is sometimes more filled than planet.ubuntu.com
<ogra> thats just because i never blog :)
<jdub> puc is slow
<jdub> need to encourage more members to join in the fun
<jdub> like JaneW 
<ogra> yeah !
<spacey> jdub: can you add my blog? :)
<jdub> spacey: please email me the rss feed url and link to a hackergotchi if you have one
<spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey
<spacey> :)
<spacey> ok
<spacey> i'll find a poor soul to make a new hackergotchi first
<spacey> :P
<Seveas> spacey, treenaks is good at that
<spacey> Seveas: sure? :P
<JaneW> jdub: er do you actaully read my blog!?
<JaneW> jdub: NSFW sometimes!
<ogra> JaneW, *i* would .... if it would show up on planet
<JaneW> yeah but I actually have to face you guys a few times a year...
<JaneW> I;d prefer not to be dying of embarassment at the time
<Mez> JaneW, lol - you should add it to planet :D I'm sure a few of us all say things on our blogs we regret
<Mez> hence why I have a personal and a geeky blog
<neuralis> JaneW: a bit of nsfw is exactly what planet needs. :)
<Seveas> JaneW, what's the url of your blog?
<Mez> neuralis, once xscreensaver is fixed ;)
<Mez> Seveas, googling for it doesnt seem to work
<Seveas> Mez, I found that out already
<Seveas> JaneW, !
<Mez> Seveas, though googling for it does list JaneW's Cellphone number
* JaneW gets new cell phone
<Seveas> rofl
<Mez> JaneW, lol - seriously - google your name and the word "blog" and goto page 2
<Mez> someone quoted an email in which you signed with your Cell # on the end
<JaneW> er, is it safe?
<JaneW> my mobile is at the end of every message I send, so it's ALL over
<JaneW> on the mailing lists and in release announcements etc
<Seveas> Jane 'JaneW' Weideman - The Project-Mistress with the Whip
<Mez> lol
<Seveas> but still no blog ur
<Seveas> url even
<Mez> I guess you're not going to enlighten us JaneW ?
<JaneW> Mez: where's yours?
* JaneW needs to screen you first
<Seveas> JaneW, planet Ubuntu ;)
<Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/
<Mez> I'm on planet ubuntu :d
<Mez> screen me?
<Mez> o_O
<Seveas> Mez, full cavityi search
<Mez> JaneW, all I have to say is "end point of order" :P
<JaneW> that whip page won;t open
<JaneW> LOL
<JaneW> Mez: yes I remeber that game BROKE me
* JaneW curses iwj
<Mez> JaneW, I believe it broke EVERYONE....
<JaneW> 'also'!
<Mez> yeah 
<Mez> that was insane
<Mez> :D
<ogra> JaneW, thats \sh's blog, might be he cant pay for his server anymore
<JaneW> heh, ok
<Mez> that reminds me
* JaneW SO needs to bring a whip to the next gathering
<Seveas> @quote add * JaneW SO needs to bring a whip to the next gathering
* Mez wonders when his server is next due a payment
<neuralis> JaneW: +1.
<ogra> i cant reach him, tried after his last entry ...
<Mez> JaneW, that might even be reason for me to come to the next one :D
<ogra> but seems he neither can pay his phone bill anymore
<JaneW> ogra: should we be worried?
<ogra> JaneW, i am a bit, yes
<JaneW> ...
<neuralis> JaneW: no changing the subject. we're still earnestly trying to coax the url of your blog out of you.
<JaneW> neuralis: what kind of country is an educational institution?
<neuralis> JaneW: in my case, one with a royally screwed up government :-D
<JaneW> neuralis: Zimbabwe!
<neuralis> JaneW: not quite, but most non-europeans have never heard of my country, so zimbabwe is close enough
<spacey> so what country is it
<spacey> could be any country
<neuralis> originally croatia, though i'm in the US now
<spacey> aha
<spacey> i know that
<ogra> neuralis, btw, i had a guy who wanted to run 20 servers and 750 clients on edubuntu with clustering, i pointed him to you, did he approach you ? 
<neuralis> ogra: nope, didn't hear from him
<ogra> ah, sad
<neuralis> he wouldn't be able to (easily) do it
<neuralis> at least not until we release openssi packages for dapper, which might be a while longer
<spacey> you can use a load balancer though
<spacey> and spread the connections over servers
<neuralis> sure, but that's usually very messy
<neuralis> spacey: google my name, first hit, click talks, then look at the slides of the presentation i gave at ltsp by the seaway on clustering ltsp
<neuralis> in practice, simple load balancing turns out to be a massive pain
<spacey> neuralis: can't read that
<spacey> its not english
<spacey> spanish
<neuralis> wrong url.. let me look it up for you
<Seveas> spacey, learn spanish :
<ogra> spacey, Seveas will translate for you :)
<neuralis> oh, i think he googled my irc nick instead of my name
<ogra> yeah, whois is a helpful tool :)
<neuralis> spacey: anyway, here: http://hcs.harvard.edu/~krstic/11-2005-clustering-ltsp.pdf
<spacey> actually i'm learning spanish
<spacey> i'm quite sure i googled your irc nick
<spacey> too bad i missed that talk on UBZ
<neuralis> spacey: right, i said google my name. anyway, i found the url, it's above, so no worries.
<spacey> whois is really difficult in gnomexchat
<spacey> you need it type it :P
<ogra> spacey, unless yu right click the name, no ? 
<neuralis> you have to be able to right click the nick and get a context menu
* ogra still uses xchat ...
* neuralis can't ween himself off irssi
<spacey> ogra: doesn't work
<ogra> neuralis, xchat-gnome might be different 
<spacey> xchat had it really nice indeed
<ogra> just use that then :) 
<ogra> neither is in the ubuntu-desktop package anymore
<spacey> xchat gnome has it advantages
<spacey> really?
<ogra> i cant see any ...
<ogra> apart from noisy notifications
<Seveas> I tried chat-gnome - briefl
<Seveas> y
<ogra> we dont ship any chat program by default in dapper ... (apart from gaim)
<Seveas> it's horrible :/
<ogra> yep
<Seveas> I understand the switch to gnome-screensaver much bett than the switch to xchat-gnome ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> me too, even if g-s-s is giving me the worst headaches evah
<spacey> i can remember that openssi stuff from ubz
<spacey> someone came up with that quite at lot
<spacey> must have beeen neuralis :p
<neuralis> spacey: i discussed it in the clustering meeting, yes
<spacey> i remember it coming up quite a lot during BOFs
<neuralis> really? i didn't hear it mentioned outside of clustering-bof
<sivang> Seveas: would it be possible to add to the topic the current meeting that is going on for those who like to pop in and out occasionaly? :-)
<ogra> there is no meeting...
<ogra> we just keep the channel warm for the next one :)
<Seveas> sivang, the channel is -t, anyone can add things to the topic
<spacey> neuralis: ah you work on hybserv as well?
<sivang> Seveas: k, thanks.
<Seveas> I could get ubugtu to speak webcal and update the topic
<Seveas> that would be fun
<sivang> Seveas: tasty!
<sivang> Seveas: frdige support webcam for it's events?
<neuralis> spacey: yeah, in fact, hybserv's pretty exciting at the moment
<spacey> neuralis: does it have ldap support yet? :P
<spacey> neuralis: oh i see hybserv3 is completely in python? thats cute
<Seveas> sivang, yes
<Seveas> I have it in my evolution
<neuralis> spacey: well, we've just begun the rewrite, but the goal is that when we write it, you'll be easily able to hook in something like ldap support, if that floated your boat
<sivang> Seveas: is it easy to connect to from evo?
<Seveas> yeah, just add the fridge webcal url to the calendar
<spacey> neuralis: but i guess it will be a while before its finished?
<neuralis> spacey: yes, we're still in super-early planning stages
<Seveas> sivang, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10292
<sivang> Seveas: cool, so http://fridge.ubuntu.com/webcal?
<Seveas> ical
<Seveas> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<sivang> okay, evo crashed when adding it
<Seveas> rofl
<Seveas> file bug 
<neuralis> sivang: it's wednesday. evo crashes on wednesdays. it's a feature.
* neuralis ducks
<Seveas> hahahahahahahahaha
<Seveas> neuralis, you can't duck - it's not safe with the avian flu flying around
<sivang> ogra: heh
<neuralis> Seveas: i actually considered typing /me drakes, but i thought that would be way too nerdy even for this channel.
<Seveas> no way
<Seveas> my first response was - hey, you should drake, not duck
<Seveas> but then I remembered the crap from ubuntu-devel this morning 
<neuralis> hah yeah
<Chousuke> hmm.
<highvoltage> hmmm... this channel is getting to warm
<highvoltage> l8rs :)
<sivang> Seveas: okay, it's working now. slick
<sivang> Seveas: thanks for the tip
<Seveas> @load Webcal
<Seveas> @config list plugins
<Seveas> sigh
<Seveas> @load Webcal
<Seveas> @config list plugins
<Ubugtu> @Admin, @BanTracker, @Bugtracker, @Channel, @ChannelRelay, @Config, @DCC, @Exploitban, @Facrs, @Facts, @Fortune, @Mess, @Misc, @Owner, @Quote, @Quotes, @Seen, @User, @Webcal, and alwaysLoadImportant
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.url http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<sivang> Seveas: what, is it ready? how did you load it with it so fast?
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.url
<Ubugtu> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
<Seveas> sivang, what you just saw is the etent of its capabilites so far - loading a stub plugin and setting a config variable
<sivang> Seveas: ah, I see. for that you already have biolerplate code?
<Seveas> yeah, supybot is quite easy
<sivang> Seveas: btw, could you do me a quick favor? see if you can sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso ?
<Seveas> I just need to write the parser now and somehow find a timer
<sivang> Seveas: or write a timer of your own
<Seveas> where is test.iso?
<sivang> Seveas: lemme put i online
<Seveas> no, supybot has timers i think - just need to hook it up
<Seveas> and make it non-intrusive 
<sivang> Seveas: muse.19inch.net/~sivan/test.iso
<sivang> wget it or something and then attemp to loop back mount it. are you on dapper btw?
<Seveas> yes
<sivang> okay, let's see then
<Seveas> dennis@mirage:~$ mount -o loop test.iso test_iso/
<Seveas> mount: only root can do that
<Seveas> dennis@mirage:~$ sudo mount -o loop test.iso test_iso
<Seveas> Password:
<Seveas> mount: Not a directory
<Seveas> test_iso IS a directory..
<sivang> yes it is
<sivang> weird no?
<Seveas> quite
<sivang> do you know any other way to mount a loop back device through the 'mount' command?
<Seveas> stat64("/sbin/mount.iso9660", 0xbfa08fcc) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<Seveas> mount("/dev/loop0", "./test_iso", "iso9660", MS_POSIXACL|MS_ACTIVE|MS_NOUSER|0xec0000, 0x8074f38) = -1 ENOTDIR (Not a directory)
<Seveas> not really
<sivang> I also stracd it lik ethis, and it didn't make sense. maybe a glibc bug?
<Seveas> I have really no idea
<sivang> okay, I made it work. stupid me:
<sivang> sudo mount test.iso ./test.iso -o loop
<sivang> this is the correct form
<sivang> oh no
<sivang> it was not
<Seveas> shouldn't matter
<sivang> same dir problem again
<sivang> yes , it shouldn't
<sivang> but that way itworked
<Seveas> the strace indicated that it took the correct paths
<sivang> for some weird reason
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @load webcal
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
<Seveas> good
<Seveas> now on to phase 3: doing something useful
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> ah feck
<Seveas> @quit
<simira> huh
<simira> what is the status of the delay-issue?
<Seveas> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary
<simira> what is IndLinux?
<Seveas> Indian Linux distro
<Seveas> @quit
<simira> right...
<Seveas> woohoo
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: (1 more message)
<Seveas> now to hook that up
<Seveas> @more
<Ubugtu> Dapper Development Status Meeting
<sivang> @topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: (1 more message)
<sivang> coool
<Seveas> @more sivang
<sivang> @more
<Ubugtu> Dapper Development Status Meeting
<Seveas> I'm trimming it to the next 6 items on the agenda 
<sivang> yes, makes sense
<Seveas> now to figure out how to update the topic
<Seveas> (ie: retrieve current topic, and only change if different)
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 17 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC:  Technical Board Meeting
<Seveas> right, one step closer
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : bogud
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : bogus
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu Meeting | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status Meeting | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board Meeting
<Ubugtu> bogus
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @load WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @load WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<MarioMeyer> nice feature :P
<Seveas> will be nicer
<Fracture> a nice feature will be a command that allows showing that info in a specific timezone .. like @topic Australia/Brisbane ;)
<Seveas> Fracture, very nice
<Seveas> I'll add that
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Fracture> :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : narf
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : narf!
<Seveas> Ubugtu, you creep
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : moo
<robotgeek> Seveas: having fun, eh
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : foo
<Seveas> <Ubugtu> The topic of #ubuntu-meeting is managed by me and filled with the contents of http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical - please don't change manually
<Seveas> he spits that in private msg 
<Seveas> ok, now to hook up a timer
<sivang> Seveas: beware not to create a monser :) mUHHA
<Seveas> sivang, if it goes out of control i'll send robotgeek to catch him
<robotgeek> heh
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Seveas> @topic
<Seveas> good
<robotgeek> sweet
<Seveas> it would be very annoying if it would change the topic to the same text over and over
<robotgeek> heh, trigger bot maybe?
<Seveas> I want to make it change the topic every n minutes if it needs to be changed
<robotgeek> yeah, the would work reasonably well also. 
<sivang> Seveas: hheh
<robotgeek> i came to find out when the super meeting would be CC + TB
<sivang> Seveas: wow, we would have super bot!
<sivang> robotgeek: when??
<sivang> robotgeek: and who told you?
<oRED> anybody has the dapper_flight5 .torrent to send me? the link in website is broken
<robotgeek> sivang: i came to find that out
<sivang> robotgeek: ah
<sivang> heh
<oRED> amd 64 dapper_flight5 .torrent ok
<oRED> hehe
<robotgeek> oRED: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-5
<oRED> robotgeek its broken, the link for dapper 64 .torrent
<robotgeek> oRED: what do you mean broken? it works for me
<robotgeek> oRED: the torrent file, i.e
<oRED> [robotgeek] : when try to download it, comes the iso file note the torrent file
<oRED> [robotgeek] : when try to download it, comes the iso file not the torrent file
<robotgeek> oRED: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-5/dapper-install-amd64.iso.torrent
<oRED> robotgeek its broken
<robotgeek> oRED: it downloads the torrent file for me, i don't know what you are talking about
<oRED> robotgeek can you send the torrent for me?
<oRED> it is about 50kb
<robotgeek> oRED: are you saying that it doesn't download for you?
<oRED> robotgeek sorry for my english
<oRED> robotgeek i'm saying that it points to the .iso file
<robotgeek> oRED: no, it doesn't 
<oRED> robotgeek it begins downloading the iso and not the torrent
<robotgeek> oRED: no, it just downloads the torrent, no the iso. 
<oRED> robotgeek could you please download it for me and send me it
<robotgeek> oRED: http://rapidshare.de/files/15572683/dapper-install-amd64.iso.torrent.html
<oRED> robotgeek now it works! thanks a lot!!!
<oRED> but as I said, this link before points to the .iso file
<robotgeek> oRED: that is the point of a torrent file
<oRED> [robotgeek] : but that link should point me the .torrent
<oRED> so I could use my torrent client to download it
<robotgeek> oRED: it does point to the torrent
<oRED> not here
<oRED> my firefox begins downloading the .iso
<oRED> who haves 656mb
<oRED> or something like
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> moo
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> moo
<Seveas> @quit
<Seveas> absolute madness
<sivang> @more
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> now to get the funkiness going
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @load WebCal
<Seveas> @load WebCal
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @quit
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<xhaker> Hooch is crazy.. or should i say.. Ubungtu
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : moo
<Seveas> @topiv
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : moo
<Seveas> now to find out how bad my code is
<Seveas> very.
<xhaker> Ubugtu is coded in which language?
<Seveas> python
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> gnaa
<Seveas> can't get the timer part right
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> grr
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> interesting
<Seveas> supybot gets wedged it seems
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> mo
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> nle
<Seveas> odd, the crapy thing gets completely wedged :/
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : asdas
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : test
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Seveas> sivang --^
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<sivang> Seveas: where does it say the current meeting?
<Seveas> That's not yet implemented
<Seveas> it's not all that obvious either
<Seveas> I'm thinking about a 5-min timer that sets the current meeting 10 minutes before the start and removes it 30 minutes past the end
<Seveas> but first time to make dinner 
<MarioMeyer> :P Seveas is having some fun w/ his supybot today.. :P
<dAndy> Seveas: using twisted?
<Seveas> dAndy, yeah
<Seveas> @config drivers.module
<Ubugtu> twistedDrivers
<sivang> Seveas: yes, I also made to prepare dinner
<sivang> Seveas: cool, this makes much more sense that what I said
<fstat> hello
<fstat> can anyone help me with a little post-installation prob. I have?
<Seveas> not in here - this is a meeting channel. #ubuntu is for support
<sabdfl> Kamion: ping
<sabdfl> mako: ping
<Kamion> sabdfl: hi, here now
<sabdfl> alrighty
<sabdfl> Keybuk: ping
<sabdfl> mjg59: ping
<mjg59> sabdfl: Hi
<mdz> ok
<Keybuk> sabdfl: present
<sabdfl> great, that's TB + CC sans mako, right?
<Keybuk> elmo is here?
<sabdfl> can we circle around and get final +1, -1 and dates views on the delay proposal?
<sabdfl> elmo's *here*
<mdz> elmo is here
<sabdfl> tried to reach mako
<Kamion> can we have a summary of the TB's provisional decisions from last night's meeting, please?
<sabdfl> not much notice, but did try to reach him
<Keybuk> last night at the TB we drew up:
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
<Keybuk> as requested on the agenda
<mdz> I read over the log
<Keybuk> this was a provisional schedule proposal based on a 6-week slip
<mdz> and you were considering the same sorts of things that I was
<mjg59> As far as the documentation freeze goes, we're keen on knowing what the doc team think
<Keybuk> it moves BetaRelease to the April 20th date previously given to FinalRelease
<Keybuk> (so 5 weeks until Beta)
<sabdfl> looks good, beta goes back 4 week,s release 6
<Keybuk> and places FinalRelease on June 1st
<mdz> I'm happy with the slewed schedule as it stands
<Keybuk> Beta goes back 5, Release 5
<Kamion> I'm content with the slewed schedule
<Keybuk> March has a cunning 5th week, just to surprise you <g>
<elmo> Maybe May 31st would be better on a lame psychological level?
<mdz> sneaky
<sabdfl> good idea to get signoff on doc freeze from them, i don't think that affects anyone else
<elmo> then it's 2006.05 rathenr than 2006.06
<mdz> elmo is channeling silbs
<sabdfl> elmo: mad s/6.05/6.06/run on the 31st...
<Keybuk> elmo: May 31st would get timezone arguments about whether it was 05 or 06 depending on how much time it took to prepare -- at least declaring it 06 is safer
<Kamion> May 30th would be an alternative
<Keybuk> plus gives us a headache if it slips a day, as we'd have to sed the entire thing
<Kamion> which is a Tuesday
<Kamion> I think I prefer releasing later in the week though
<Kamion> more concentrated time right beforehand for testing
<sabdfl> thursday?
<Kamion> 1st June's a Thursday
<Kamion> Thu is fine by me, we've done that before and it leaves us a day of the work week in case it goes tits-up
<mdz> thursday is what we have been doing and it works well
<sabdfl> any other thoughts? or +1 -1 on 1 June 200*6*
<mdz> +1
<elmo> 0 because I'm still half channeling silbds
<Keybuk> there's a question about what we do with the extra time;  I have an INBOX full of screaming demands for Network Manager 0.6 to support WPA -- is that the kind of thing that's valid or exempt for the extra time?
<Keybuk> (my reason for not doing the update so far was simply "not enough time to test before release")
<Kamion> +0; I'm still concerned about the Parkinson's Law effect that pushing the freeze back is demonstrably having (see Keybuk's question), but I'm mollified by (a) extra time to keep the troops in line (b) sane-sounding plans for a short dapper+1 release
<sabdfl> Keybuk: we can discuss exceptions, i've discussed that one with mdz
<mdz> and I mailed Keybuk earlier today about it
<sabdfl> ok
<Keybuk> the question's still valid though ... if I reword it slightly -- what will we use the extra time for?
<sabdfl> on my list of please-pleases are X fallback for live cd install sanity, WPA, and [NM] 
<Keybuk> I wasn't aware that dapper was in a "bad state" of buggyness
<sabdfl> that's IT
<mdz> Keybuk: this was outlined in sabdfl's email proposing a delay
<mdz> sabdfl: dude, you forgot localization
<mjg59> We have the minor problem that X, well, doesn't work
<sabdfl> i do't mind if WPA is done by community without NM
<Seveas> (WPA+NM needs driver patches too)
<Mithrandir> WPA in general does work without NM, though
<Keybuk> are we likely to send people through the bug tracking system, with a "you must triage N bugs a day" kind of work?  or it is just "6 more weeks of whatever you're doing now?"
<mdz> can we not have the WPA discussion right now?
<Seveas> sorry
<mdz> we're not here to debate new dapper features
<sabdfl> lets just say "lots more bug work" than how it will happen, mdz's call
<Kamion> I had a question last night which I'm not sure was answered
<Kamion> (can't remember)
<sabdfl> long day, kamion :-)
<Kamion> are we planning to explicitly allocate developer time to trawling through parts of the bug system that they would not ordinarily visit (i.e. outside their usual package maintenance) to add general bug-fixing polish?
<Kamion> we haven't really been doing that since warty/hoary or so, and I think it shows in some places
<mdz> Kamion: yes
<Kamion> ok, thanks, quick answer :)
<sabdfl> TB call IMO
<mjg59> That suits me. I'm going to have little time over the next few weeks (possibly months)
<mdz> mjg59: we seem to have a number of interesting laptop-related bugs...
<mdz> any other questions from TB or CC members?
<mjg59> mdz: Yes. I'm entirely unable to keep on top of them right now.
<Keybuk> from me, a 0 if it's just a 6 week delay;  a +1 if time and effort is deliberately spent to mine malone for bugs; and blow the dust off those that have sat unconfirmed for too long
<OverCraft> hello
<mjg59> I'm with keybuk on this
<mdz> OverCraft: there is a meeting in progress
<sabdfl> +1 on dedicated bug time
<sabdfl> perhaps that shoudl go in the schedule?
<Keybuk> a delay on its own pretty much balances for positives and negatives;  a delay to do something new like that would be a good thing I think
<mjg59> Providing the time does actually go into ensuring that we have a better distribution, I'll go with that
<sabdfl> 2 weeks, three weeks?
<mjg59> Bug fixing time doesn't impact on the dates of the documentation freezes, right?
<Kamion> bug fixing would have to respect freezes
<mjg59> Leaving a bigger gap between doc freeze and release gives more time for translations
<Kamion> if it gets into major documentable changes or string changes or UI changes or what have you, it'd be subject to those
<mjg59> But I'd still like to hear more from the doc team and translaters
<sabdfl> i think the "mark works on foundation business with cell phone and irc switched off so no new requests can be made" phase can be explicit in the schedule
<Kamion> the current slewed schedule is the same as the old one in that regard, right?
<mdz> I'd rather not debate the specifics of the release schedule; that's not TB+CC sort of material
<sabdfl> +1 from me on the slewed schedule, with TB free to work out specifics
<mdz> +1 exactly
<mjg59> Ok
<sabdfl> so we have:
<sabdfl>   mdz +1
<sabdfl>  keybuk +1
<sabdfl>   mjg59 +1
<sabdfl>  elmo 0
<sabdfl>  sabdfl +1
<sabdfl>  kamion +1
<Kamion> (erm, +0
<Kamion> )
<sabdfl> some with caveats on dedicated cleanup and bug time
<mdz> last I saw was +0 from Kamion
<sabdfl> sorry, kamion +0
<Kamion> but even so, that's 4/7, no negatives so far
<sabdfl> anything we can do to tip the 0's in favour?
<Kamion> my reading of mako's position last night was generally positive, though don't want to put words into his mouth
<elmo> I'll de-channel and revote as +1
<mdz> we can exorcise Jane from elmo
<sabdfl> vague sounds of "...you all" waft in the air
<Kamion> I can lean towards Keybuk's position on deliberately mining for bugs; my remaining concern is burnout due to extended crunch-mode for release
<Keybuk> (says the guy buggering off to debconf for two of the weeks <g>)
<Kamion> that was somewhat addressed last night, though; I think we'll need to acknowledge that we will get more like four weeks' extra work than six
<Kamion> if that's acceptable, then +1
<sabdfl> kamion: what about a long weekend (3 days) over debconf for everyone
<sabdfl> dedicated R&R time
<Kamion> we've done that before (warty preview release, right?) and it worked well
<sabdfl> ok, let's do that
<Kamion> hopefully we can make the beta release not take too much time and energy; we're getting better at these
<Keybuk> when is debconf week?
<sabdfl> ban * form #canonical and related channels
<Kamion> Keybuk: May 14th-22nd
<sabdfl> it would be better, sooner
<sabdfl> folkswere aiming to peak mid-April
<Kamion> how about shortly after the beta, then?
<sabdfl> fine by me
<sabdfl> after beta flood is handled
<Kamion> right
<sabdfl> distro team only?
<Keybuk> April 14-16 ?  that means freeze, relax, fix bugs next week before Release
<mdz_> that'd be the weekend after RC
<mdz_> er, where RC would have been...
<mdz_> probably the last pre-beta Flight that week
<sabdfl> ok, can TB settle this?
<sabdfl> kamion, do we get +1?
<Kamion> I think I'm persuaded, yes
<Kamion> +1
<sabdfl> i've agreed to the time off for canonical distro team, up to TB to decide when that will have best effect
<Kamion> 6/7, no mako
<sabdfl> ok
<elmo> shall I try channeling mako?
<sabdfl> thank you! i'm very sorry not to have called the original schedule better, and i really appreciate your support on this
<Kamion> elmo: go on, it'll be funny
<sabdfl> Kamion: if you could only hear
<Kamion> who'll put together the announcement? we should do that quickly, since the word will be getting out soon enough anyway
<mdz_> sabdfl: I think I get to take credit for that error, actually
<sabdfl> shared grief
<sabdfl> ok, we know for next time we do an LS release
<xhaker> LS?
<sabdfl> i'll draft something up tomorrow and circle it round CC/TB?
<sabdfl> "long support"
<mdz_> ok
<Kamion> xhaker: long-term support, or some such
<mjg59> Ok
<Keybuk> isn't LS the badge they put on the back of the cheap and nasty Ford Escorts? :)
<sivang> lol
<sabdfl> Keybuk: you'd know
<Kamion> sabdfl: works for me
<sabdfl> ok. well handled and thanks for the very good process
<mdz_> good night, ubuntuland
<sabdfl> we're there yet
<sabdfl> Keybuk: ^^
<Keybuk> ??
<sabdfl> "are we there yet"-ster
<sabdfl> night all
<Keybuk> g'nite
* sivang is glade this meeting ended so quickly
<ogra> mdz_, night
<xhaker> sivang: you slacker, you dislike meetings?
<Seveas> no, sivang wants to pla with Ubugtu :
<sivang> hehe
<Seveas> anyway, now the meeting is over I'll work on your feature request
<sivang> xhaker: not at all, but I'm working in the background and it's hard to hack while trying to keep track :)
<sivang> Seveas: yay!!
<Seveas> unfortunately I have to test in here 
<sivang> Seveas: I owe you a beer when we meet
<Seveas> hehe
<xhaker> by the way call 6-10 (Edgy Eagle) - and say it like Zach Braff does on Scrubs
<Seveas> Edgy Elephant
* sivang goes back to testing Burning from HUB
<xhaker> Seveas: i want that ascii
<Seveas> because it'll be heavy
<xhaker> Edgy Elephant was my gf bet :(
<spacey> is it that heavy weight?
<Seveas> I'll merge my wikipage with names with the Ubuntu wiki soon
* xhaker out to eat
<xhaker> bbl folks
<spacey> my favourite is still wifebeater wombat
<spacey> but i guess that one will never make it :p
<zorba64> Edgy Emu?
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @reload WebCal
<Seveas> @load WebCal
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @quit
<Seveas> @webcal
<Ubugtu> (webcal <command> [<args> ...] ) -- Command dispatcher for the Webcal plugin. Use 'list Webcal' to see the commands provided by this plugin. Use 'config list plugins.Webcal' to see the configuration values for this plugin. In most cases this dispatcher command is unnecessary; in cases where more than one plugin defines a given command, use this command to tell the bot which plugin's command to use.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : test
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ |
<Stormx2> @list Webcal
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Mithrandir> Seveas: can we whine at you to test in an empty channel, or is that painful?
<Seveas> yeah, then i'd have to shuffle lots f code around
<Seveas> I've been testing the parts that don't require this channel elsewhere
<Seveas> (you wouldn't want to see that place)
<Mithrandir> heh, ok.
<Seveas> there are some evil quirks in supybot
<Bonzodog> supybot is fun...I have one in another channel
<Seveas> it's quite nice
<Bonzodog> I have a friend who wrote her own bot
<Bonzodog> for IRC
<Qball> her?
<Qball> that doesn't often happen.
<Bonzodog> yup, a female hardcore unix geek
<Bonzodog> she uses a Sparc as her home computer
<Qball> hmmmmm damn where can I find those.
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 19 Apr 03:00 UTC: 7th International Free Software Forum | 20 Apr 00:00 U
<Qball> @reload gf-finder
<Seveas> urgh
<Seveas> bad...
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Qball> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Qball> @topic
<Qball> @topic
<Qball> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %Qball!*@*]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by Seveas
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
<Seveas> aaaaaaaaargh stupid bot
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> nice
<Seveas> very nice even
<Seveas> Had to throw in a lambda
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ |
<Seveas> Ubugtu, what the hell?
<xhaker> it's autonomous now
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.template
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.topic
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | %s
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Seveas> weird
<Seveas> it uses the SAME function to determine the new topic
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+t]  by Seveas
<Seveas> @reload webcal
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-t]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by Seveas
<Seveas> case sensitivity--
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<ubijtsa> Seveas: a lambda? It's written in Lisp ??
<Seveas> python
<ubijtsa> ah, less obscene :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status Meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status Meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> YES!
<Seveas> mission completed, only one more topic change to go
<ajmitch> good
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Seveas> stupid supybot timers got annoying
<Seveas> sorry for all the spam in here 
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-21
<mako> Kamion, elmo, sabdfl, etc: sorry.. i was in class giving a presentation.. wednesdays are bad.. i just got out now
<mako> but Kamion channeled me correctly.. i'm in favor
<sabdfl> thanks mako
<sivang> okay, one hour to go out for lunch and come back for status meeting
<natroll> what?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Dapper Development Status Meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<pitti> Hai
<JaneW> ok everyone here?
<JaneW> I have appologies from jbailey
<Kamion> here
<dholbach> here
<JaneW> and fabbione said he may be late
<Riddell> I'm here
<JaneW> hi Riddell - I see you :)
<Mithrandir> iz here
<Riddell> yay :)
* pitti waves to Mr. Scott :)
<doko> hi
<JaneW> ping: BenC, heno, infinty, iwj, Kinnison , mdz, mvo, ogra, seb128, sivang
<seb128> JaneW: pong
<infinity> pong
<BenC> JaneW: pong
<JaneW> hi BenC :)
<ogra> meep
<dholbach> the UK guys might be lunching
<pitti> iwj's on vac, isn't he?
<dholbach> (UK ... sprint ... guys)
<Kamion> iwj is on holiday, yeah
<JaneW> pitti: yes you are right
<JaneW> ok we are waiting for: heno (goal implemented),  Kinnison (goal implemented), mdz (at sprint), mvo(at sprint),  sivang
<JaneW> with 2 mins to go
<infinity> 1 min, by my clock.
<infinity> So, do we get to start with "I" this week? :)
<JaneW> infinity: sure :)
* infinity hates always being in the middle.
<JaneW> hello heno
<infinity> Or, we could go based on first names...
<mvo> JaneW: here (sprinting)
* dholbach hugs mvo
<JaneW> infinity: you are ahead of time there :P
<JaneW> hi mvo
<JaneW> mvo: mdz with you?
<heno> Hi JaneW
* BenC doesn't mind first or last name usage :)
<kbrooks> look at your clock.its 9:00
<JaneW> infinity: you a middle child?
<daf> JaneW: mdz is not here
<mvo> JaneW: no, he is at a different sprint
<JaneW> hrm
<infinity> JaneW: Youngest.
<JaneW> shall we wait for mdz for a few mins?
<JaneW> or proceed.
<dholbach> somebody could try to call him
<Kamion> I'll phone him
<BenC> considering we were going to change the entire day of the meeting for mdz, maybe we wait :)
<JaneW> we will need to tell him it's important to be punctual :P
<Mithrandir> I think we should just start.  We have an hour, this meeting is supposed to start on time.
<infinity> Mithrandir: No, it's only meant to END on time. :)
<infinity> So, if we start 30 mins late, it's only 30 mins long.
* JaneW waits 1 more min
<Mithrandir> infinity: I have stuff to do today and would prefer not being stuck waiting for somebody to show up.
<BenC> but then again, I just got on the clock, and I'm sure others are waiting to go to bed
<Kamion> mdz will be here in a moment
<JaneW> Kamion: thanks
<mdz> good morning
<JaneW> hi mdz
<mdz> Kamion: thanks for the call; lunch ran late
<Kamion> no problem
* infinity waits for JaneW to wag a finger at mdz.
<BenC> someone has to :)
<JaneW> *little wag*
<mdz> BenC: ready?
<BenC> Dapper Kernel Status: Bugs have mostly been caught up with. Major updates since last week:
<BenC> - SPARC Niagara support courtesy of DaveM, and much effort from Fabbione.
<BenC> - IPW2200 1.1.1 synced. This should fix a lot of firmware error bugs (will be in -18.28)
<BenC> - Lots of sound fixes merged from alsa, coutesy of Daniel T. Chen (crimsun)
<BenC> - cPad driver update (now known as synaptics-usb). Most people were seeing a crash from this driver.
<BenC> Major bugs still needing fixes:
<JaneW> infinity really wants to go first
<BenC> - ACPI-PnP: Loss of functionality. Matthew Garrett (mjg59) is looking into isolating the patch from ACPI-git to fix this problem.
<BenC> - PPC Sound: Tumbler is still in regression since my fixes to get Toonie working. I think I am just going to revert the Tumbler portions of this for dapper. Working with BenH to get the over-all patch fixed for Tumbler as well.
<BenC> - Odd crash with some x86 machines running -686 kernel. Seems SMP related. Other distros are experiencing this. Working with lkml folks to resolve it.
<BenC> - Crash with amd64 systems running x86 kernels.
<mdz> JaneW: ok, he's next
<BenC> - powernow-k8 seems to not be working for people with x86 kernels. Some people even report it not working with amd64 kernels. This is working for me with exact same CPU as at least one other person reported having the problem on. Investigating.
<infinity> JaneW: No, no, it's okay.  I was being sarcastic. :)
<BenC> - Various regressions on rare peripherals. Working on these as I can.
<mdz> BenC: we seem to have a collection of interesting laptop-related bugs at the moment
<mdz> BenC: e.g., mvo's laptop hibernating when he disconnects the power
<infinity> BenC: Does that ipw2200 merge include an ipw2100 merge as well?
<BenC> mdz: yeah, those are on the list too
<infinity> BenC: And the 3945 stuff? (so I can do the LRM side of that)
<BenC> infinity: it will, but 2200 was more important
<pitti> BenC: I deem broken capabilities as not too unimportant, too
<mvo> BenC: if I can help you debugging it let me know
<BenC> mvo: I'll email to schedule some time, if that's ok
<Keybuk> BenC: the PNP stuff is (unsurprisingly) causing problem for everyone
<mvo> BenC: sure, that's fine. best is next week when I'm back from the sprint
<Keybuk> personally I blame mjg59, as his Mactel is the only i386 around *without* PNP :p
<BenC> infinity: 3945 needs a tester so we don't dump stuff in blind like I did with rtl81xx junk
<infinity> BenC: Yeah, I think we're waiting on someone (anyone) to actually get one in the mail.
<BenC> Keybuk: yeah, me too :)
<infinity> BenC: I'd love to see a T60 before release.
<BenC> I have PCIE, but not mini-PCIE
<mdz> BenC: did you get much feedback from the most recent Flight?
<kbrooks> may I ask a question?
<BenC> and I can't find a adapter board
<pitti> kbrooks: you just did :)
<BenC> mdz: it seems we are getting a lot more testing now
<mdz> BenC: do we have a handle on where we stand as far as regressions?
<kbrooks> so I'm allowed. OK.
<BenC> mdz: I think so
<Keybuk> I think it'd be worth blessing the next Flight (or even 5) with a "ready for large-scale testing" label
<Kamion> kbrooks: if it's on-topic for this team meeting; otherwise please use a different channel
<infinity> BenC: That's to be expected as we near release.  Sadly, most regressions get found within a month or less of release, which will put you in hardcore crunch mode for a while.
<mdz> Keybuk: indeed, and explicitly random hardware testing
<mdz> right, we need to move on
<mdz> BenC: thanks
<BenC> I agree, things are ramping up, and odd bugs are being found
<mdz> dholbach: ?
<BenC> now it's in time, but later it will be too late
<dholbach> mdz: not infinity? :)
<kbrooks> hibernation: i think we should show a progress bar for it.
<dholbach> example-content: another version uploaded, flat directory structure
<dholbach> icon-mission: prioritisation ongoing, community efforts are planned, will setup buildsystem today
<dholbach> this week (done): GNOME 2.14.0, started triaging HUGE bug backlog
<dholbach> this week (todo): icon-mission, bug triage, HUG DAY on Friday!
<dholbach> next week: (bug triage)++
<mdz> dholbach: he said he wasn't serious
<dholbach> right
<kbrooks> thatis all. 
<infinity> Sarcasm is lost on this group.
<BenC> kbrooks: off-topic... -devel mailing list would be best
<mdz> dholbach: example-content is looking good
<mdz> dholbach: GNOME 2.14.0 seems a bit rough around the edges
<mdz> what's your assessment?
<kbrooks> dholbach, icion-mission: i'm unfimilar with it. what is it, anyway? and i might participate in the bug triaging
<dholbach> mdz:  to be honest I don't have an overview yet... i have 1705 unread desktop bugs mails
<doko> mdz: can I make example-content make depend on openoffice.org? (pictures show up in the OOo gallery ...)
<Keybuk> infinity: it's not lost, it just fades into the general background of sarcasm
<dholbach> kbrooks: I don't think we have the time to elaborate here, let's chat after the meeting
<kbrooks> dholbach, all right.
<dholbach> kbrooks: but I'm happy if you join the bug efforts :)
<mdz> doko: can you conditionalize it so that they're added to the gallery if ooo is installed, otherwise do nothing?
<kbrooks> dholbach, where? :)
<doko> mdz: I'll have a look, or mabe a new binary package
<mdz> doko: ok
<mdz> dholbach: do you need help with the bug day?
<mdz> now would be the time to round it up, if so
<dholbach> mdz: I'd be happy if somebody joined seb and me
<dholbach> you can add yourself and your tasks to: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay 
<doko> dholbach: can do that for 1/2 day
<infinity> dholbach: I'd be happy to pop in and dump FTBFS bugs on everyone as I go through build logs tomorrow, but I can't promise much help with mentoring/sponsorship type stuff.
<dholbach> nice, thanks
<pitti> dholbach: since now I'm in real bug fixing mood, I'll join
<mdz> Kinnison: would you do a bug day sortie as well?
* ogra adds a screensaver task to the page 
<dholbach> i plan to do them every 2nd week from now on
<JaneW> mdz: Kinnison isn't here yet, we are pinging him
<mdz> are we missing anyone else?
<JaneW> everyone else is accounted for - except sivang
<doko> iwj
<JaneW> iwj is on leave
<dholbach> but he's on vacation
<seb128> doko: he's on VAC
<mdz> right
<JaneW> fabbione is prepping for funeral
<mdz> thanks dholbach
<mdz> doko: ?
<JaneW> and jbailey said he isn;t needed
<kbrooks> funerals suck... :) </random>
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap: final versions in the archives for all architectures (v8 on sparc), java problems on hppa (not that critical for main), lamont not yet happy, infinity starts feeling better.
<doko> - toolchain-roadmap-ng: blocked
<doko> - openoffice.org: results from the OOo sprint last weekend in the archive (closed about 120 reports for things fixed in 2.0.2, fixed another 15 at the weekend or later), more complete report today to ubuntu-devel.
<doko> - other: uploads and bug fixed on OOo related packages, OOo & l10n and OOo & font discussions
<mdz> JaneW: correct
<mdz> doko: how was the sprint?
<doko> too much pizza
<mdz> (overall, I'll wait for your report)
<mdz> productive?
<doko> but anyway, we finished many things, yes!
<infinity> doko: You forget to mention the ia32-libs-dev purge I see in my INBOX right now.
* sivang is here now
<Kamion> kbrooks: hibernation> this isn't the place for random bug reports or wishlist ideas, I'm afraid; please take those elsewhere. This is a status meeting to establish what distro team hackers have done this week and what they're planning to do next week.
<mdz> doko: hopefully it will make it easier to continue collaboration online as well
<doko> infinity: ahh yes
<doko> mdz: I think so, it was a good start.
<mdz> doko: thanks
<mdz> heno: anything to report?
<heno> * example-content: implemented. Some updates and tweaks to individual files will continue to be made. mdzzzz.ogg is no longer the default video :)
<infinity> Shame.
<mdz> heno: something a bit longer?
<pitti> mdzzzzzzzz ;)
<dholbach> yes a recorded desktop session
<mdz> oh, interesting
<mdz> will check it out after the upgrade
<Mithrandir> heno: it's a fresh video from the latest sprint instead?
<heno> a video of the dsktop in action, but it needs to be redone with the new look
<nhaines> What a shame.  :)
<mdz> thanks heno
<mdz> infinity: next
<infinity> last week buildd: Finish with sparc and ia64 catching up, lit up hppa buildds and began the long, hard road to hppa catching up again.  Went through every failed build log I could find in the last two weeks and did judicious fixes/give-backs to try to sort what I could.
<infinity> last week distro: Helped Colin and Tollef release Flight-5, upated LRM for new fglrx and AVM Fritz, random bugfixes in packages that were either FTBFS or causing others to fail.
<infinity> next week buildd: Taking another hack day or two (already approved by mdz) to work with cprov on soyuz buildd shortcomings, trying to finish the hppa backlog, and going further back in time with failed build logs, fixing or bugfiling where appropriate.
<infinity> next week distro: Bug triaging and fixing in just about everything I pseudo-maintain, focussing first on crucial bugs in initramfs-tools.  Testing and uploading pkgbinarymangler to replace pkgstriptranslations and do Maintainer field mangling.
<mdz> infinity: what sort of issues are afoot with initramfs-tools?
<infinity> The worst being that if /tmp or /boot run out of space, it just blindly carries on and you end up with an unbootable system. :)
<infinity> (Yes, that bug's been there isnce breezy)
<infinity> since, too.
<mdz> sweet
<infinity> doko tried to hurt me earlier today for that one, so it's time I fixed it.
<infinity> There are other poorly (or non) handled failure cases that are slightly less severe, I'll go through a bunch.
<doko> heh, why do have _I_ find these things as the first person? :-/
<mdz> doko: because you fill your disks with openoffice builds?
<infinity> doko: You weren't the first, just the scariest / most German.
<mdz> thanks, infinity
<ogra> infinity, did bddebian file a bug for you? seems cpqarray doesnt end up in the initramfs recently
<doko> mdz: not my /boot partiton ;p
<mdz> we have no iwj?
<mvo> on vac
<seb128> mdz: he's on VAC this weel
<seb128> week
<mdz> right, of course
<infinity> ogra: He caught me on IRC.  It's mentally filed.
<ogra> oki
<mdz> Kamion: next
<Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: Identification page totally reworked; several other small UI changes.
<Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Partitioning committal moved to the main installation progress bar. Some gparted bugs are currently blocking me from testing part of this properly, though.
<Kamion> ubuntu-express: Internationalisation support on its way, now that I've implemented the escape capability in debconf.
<Kamion> misc: Little spec progress this week, since I had about half the week eaten by the installer security vulnerability in Breezy. We're going to release updated Breezy CD images at some point, although they won't make the last shipit batch.
<Kamion> next-week: Integrate Fabio's disk selector (really). Finish internationalisation. Deal with various partitioning bugs that have been reported. Start on updated Breezy CD images.
<mdz> Kamion: is the wiki todo up to date?
<Kamion> yes
<mdz> it's still a bit distressingly long
<JaneW> Kamion: can you do %'s again?
<mdz> Kamion: of those items, the partman commit (for usability) and localisation (for the benefit of translators) look to be priorities
<Kamion> I could do with help on UI bits, which account for a lot of the length; hope Kinnison can do that when he's finished launchpadding
<mdz> Kamion: ok, will see who I can get for you
<Kamion> mdz: the partman commit is IMHO not a huge deal now that most of it's been moved to the final progress bar
<Keybuk> UI is possibly something I can help with
<JaneW> ok fabbione sent the following
<mdz> Kamion: hmm, ok, haven't done an install since last week
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<Kamion> it's only starting up partman a couple more times, is all
<JaneW> fabbione * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. Added rc.local support on mdz/sabdfl request.
<JaneW> fabbione * ubuntu-cluster: Waiting ocfs2-tools release for new userland to sync with the kernel that will allow (finally) full desync later.
<JaneW> fabbione * last week: Finished with partman-auto core modifications to present disk-selector and later how to trash a disk. Patch is in Kamion hands for string love. Bug fixing. Started looking into some X stuff. No don't start asking me when bug foo will be fixed because I have no idea.
<JaneW> fabbione * next week: hw upgrade at the office, bug fixing and more bug fixing.
<Kamion> mdz: that only went in about twenty minutes ago anyway
<heno> does UI require coding or will testing and advice help?
<mdz> Keybuk: please dive in then; coordinate with Kamion
<Kamion> heno: code
<heno> oki :)
<JaneW> and iwj asked me to reminder everyone of his request for LP feedback
<JaneW>  (as sent to warthogs)
<Kamion> I mean, testing and advice won't hurt, but we do have rather a lot of that piled up already and I think it might help to clear this lot of feedback away first before getting another pile
<JaneW> s/reminder/remind/
<heno> yep, np
<mdz> yes, please do ensure that your most critical launchpad needs/feedback are sent to iwj
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<Kamion> er, fabbione and I obviously miscommunicated, I didn't realise he was expecting me to finish off the partman-auto disk selector patch
<Keybuk> udev: some minor bugs fixed, including one that affected Installer.
<Keybuk> netbase: still a strange bug where for no apparent reason, wifi cards cause "Configuring network interfaces" to stop on boot
<Keybuk> network-manager: have been investigating 0.6 and would like to recommend that we look at shipping that in dapper, along with wpa_supplicant -- with the extended release cycle it would still get more testing than I was expecting 0.5 to get.  It also fixes a lot of damned irritating problems.
<Keybuk> n-m on livecd: generally response has been good, except for casper seeding /etc/network/interfaces badly -- haven't had a response from Tollef yet about that.
<Kamion> I thought I had already told him my views and that he would finish it off
<Keybuk> next week: going to grep every binary for /var/run, /etc/hotplug, etc. and fix them all.
<Keybuk> other: I'd like to help out with ftp archive/cd building/etc. do we need more people for this?
<mdz> Kamion: ok, please follow up via email
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: huh?  I haven't seen anything about that from you?
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: are you /dev/null'ing your Malone mail?
<Keybuk> or is Malone just sulking
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, not ttbomk
<Kamion> Keybuk: not much with CD building now that Mithrandir and infinity are up to speed on it, but I'm the only active archive admin at present
<pitti> Keybuk: _ion is already working on 0.6 packages and ported much of our changes, are you aware of that?
<Keybuk> pitti: yup, I'm going to merge his work with mine
<Kamion> which chews up more of my time than I would like
<mdz> Keybuk: when you have 0.6 in hand, let's revisit whether to add it to desktop
<Keybuk> Kamion: I'd be happy to learn that and take some of the work from you
<infinity> Kamion: I have ftpmaster rights, but have not been abusing them out of deference to others.
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: k, let's go over it after meeting
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: 'k
<infinity> Kamion: If you need more help in that area, just holler.
<Kamion> mdz: opinion on ftpmastery?
<mdz> Kamion: is elmo still helping out there?
<Kamion> if Keybuk's keen, I see no reason not to
<Riddell> Keybuk: are there packages for n-m 0.6 yet?
<Kamion> mdz: not since the switch to Soyuz
<Kamion> which I think is more a matter of time than policy
<Kamion> (since he's busy with the tools)
<mdz> Kamion: ok, please help Keybuk get up to speed then
<infinity> Kamion: There are certainly times when doing buildd stuff that I'd like to NEW things on my own, etc, but don't, as I don't want to to step on toes.
<Kamion> Keybuk: please mail RT to get access
<Kamion> I also don't object to infinity being able to smooth his own path
<mdz> Keybuk: please munge Kamion's teachings into a wiki page for the next time around (and for me)
<Kamion> Keybuk: let me know when that's done and I shall dispense runic wisdom or something
<mdz> infinity: feel free to deal with binary NEW yourself
<mdz> Keybuk: I'll try to remember to tap elmo when I see him later today
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<infinity> Keybuk: You need to be added to the "lp_archive" group for ftpmastery (make that explicit in your RT ticket)
<mdz> Kinnison: here?
<pitti> speaking of archive tools, if I sat down and wrote a tool that does syncs, would anyone hurt me?
<mdz> pitti: I spoke to kiko about this yesterday, and he said that josie has been ported to soyuz already
<Kamion> pitti: I understand that elmo's part-way through such a tool, but you could talk to him
<mdz>   /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/scripts/sync-source.py  --help
<pitti> oh, neat
<infinity> elmo's tool is stalled on him having some anger management issues with his tools, apparently.
<mdz> Kamion: <kiko> in lp_queue's home there is a HOWTO-SYNC file
<Kamion> mdz: can you get a definitive answer out of elmo on whether that's definitely OK to use?
<mdz> Kamion: not at the moment; try it and see?
<Kamion> I don't like using tools that look finished but might not be blessed yet
<pitti> I pile up new requests every day, and doing them later doesn't help to make UVF exceptions better
<Kamion> been bitten by that already
<infinity> Kamion: Last I heard, it was still somewhat unhappy.
<mdz> infinity: once the tool is sorted, would you own syncs going forward?
<infinity> Kamion: Or, in his words, "I though it was working, then it broke again"
<infinity> mdz: Sure thing.
<infinity> mdz: If you can chase up elmo on the status of said tool, that'd be cool, since you'r ein the same town.  If not, I'll bug him when we cross paths.
<JaneW> I'll mail Kinnison 
<mdz_> infinity: once the tool is sorted, would you own syncs going forward?
<infinity> mdz: And if you missed my previous message:
<mdz_> Kamion: I'll follow up with kiko/elmo
<mdz_> JaneW: thanks
<infinity> 07:32 < infinity> mdz: Sure thing.
<Kamion> thanks
<mdz_> infinity: cool
<pitti> thanks
<dholbach> yeah, cool :)
<mdz_> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> misc: keyboards.  Korean keyboard handling is getting there, espresso's keyboard handling is getting there and I'm getting bored of keymaps.  Also done some small fixes to gdm, evolution and the clock applet for pet peeves.  Also: released flight-5
<Mithrandir> next week: More keyboard stuff, possibly flight-6 (end of next week), possibly popcon.u.c
<Mithrandir> blocked: no
<mdz_> Mithrandir: what remains on espresso keyboard stuff?
<Mithrandir> mdz_: it doesn't actually apply any of the settings yet.
<Mithrandir> it needs a map from installer keymaps to X keymaps and do immediate-apply of those
<infinity> (Does Mithrandir get bonus points for visiting the Korean embassy just to get a keyboard?)
<mdz_> infinity: yes
<sivang> heh
<Mithrandir> mdz_: it's "almost there", but I keep being distracted with stuff like the korean keyboards and such, which is why it's moving slower than I'd like.
<mdz_> Mithrandir: however, espresso is still very high priority, so don't let the Korean keyboard become too much of a time sink
<Kamion> (the map is easy, BTW, we just lift it out of xserver-xorg.config)
<mdz_> that can land later, needs less testing
<mdz_> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz_> mvo: next?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - ui-sprint: 
<mvo>   * new notification-bubbles design in the archive
<mvo> - i18n-sprint:
<mvo>   * build/uploaded a bunch of thai support packages
<mvo>   * worked on a general input-method solution (uploaded, only zh_HK missing)
<mvo>   * banged my head against fontconfig for CJK (it's all pretty horrid)
<mvo> - misc:
<mvo>  * various update for update-manager, g-a-i, update-notifier, fonts
<mvo>  * a bit of work on the dist-upgrade tool (little, I need my usual setup to properly work/test stuff)
<mvo>  * finished the backport of the tools for the dist-upgrader
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - get hold of infinity to get the auto-dist-upgrade test chroot setup
<mvo> - get the upgrade tool into the archive
<mvo> - try to get promotion to main for the backported python-vte in breezy-updates (from universe to main) if that is possible (for the dist-upgrade-tool)
<mvo> - catchup with the stuff that I wasn't able to do due to sprinting (my todo list is pretty long currently :(
<mvo> - see if the OFL font license is suitable for main (seems so)
<Kamion> ug, don't know whether we can promote stuff just in breezy-updates
<mdz_> mvo: any hope for fontconfig?
<mvo> Kamion: it would be nice otherwise people need to add breezy-updates universe
<Kamion> I can try, I guess; will need to clone off an anastacia setup for breezy+breezy-updates to make sure the world remains sane
<mdz_> mvo: please send me your todo list via email; I'll give you a hand with prioritization
<pitti> mdz_: we had a pretty nice discussion with Abel some hours ago, will have another round after the meeting I guess
<mvo> mdz_: very hard problem, unfortunately we have no real expert here. we will probably send configs for the languages that need special treatment
<doko> mvo: OFL?
<mdz_> mvo: if you can find someone upstreamish, I'm happy to fund a bounty to get what we need
<mvo> mutl-languages font configuration is a big problem in general, that's for sure
<mvo> mdz_: thanks, I'll try
<mvo> doko: open font license
<ogra> doko, open foint license ?
<mdz_> mvo: I don't think we can target multi-language configurations for Dapper; focus on getting each language right first
<mvo> mdz_: the current plan is to ship configs in language-selector (fontconfig snippets)
<mvo> mdz_: that are selected based on the default language (if they are required)
* pitti tries not to make sounds of anger and pain
<mdz_> eek
<mvo> doko: http://scripts.sil.org/OFL
<pitti> mvo: so you discarded the 'let's chop fonts' approach?
<mdz_> mvo: how will we get it set up correctly at install time?
<mvo> the trouble is that zh_CN and zh_TW have different preferences for fonts and we can't easily put that in language-{support,pack}
<doko> mvo: one nice unicode font is there ...
<mvo> doko: which one?
<mvo> pitti: that solve only part of the problem
<mvo> mdz_: we need to work that out 
<pitti> mvo: right, but better one part solved and one open than two open :)
<pitti> the other problem is an intrinsic font design problem that we can't solve
<doko> mvo: Gentium
<mdz_> mvo: ok, thanks
<mdz_> we can continue the fontconfig discussion after the meeting
<mdz_> ogra: next?
<mvo> daf had a idea what we could try to solve one problem without chopping 
<ogra> * general: flight 5 preparation and testing, fixed ltsp-update-sshkeys to copy the keys even if sshd isnt running, other small ltsp fixes, hunted the gnome-screensaver GL hacks flicker, found the reason, working on a fix. fixed the "two menu entries for screensaver preferences" bug (upload pending (will happen today)), worked on dirtributor-icon inclusion for edubuntu-artwork, no edubuntu-docs work yet. prepared and moved the complete hwdb dataset
<ogra>  (~4.5G) to the DC.
<ogra> next-week: poke gnome-screensaver harder, get the flickering fixed (make sure GL screensavers are displayed in a GL visual by gnome-screensaver), more edubuntu-artwork stuff, more edubuntu-docs work, look into progressbar handling of ltsp-client-builder.udeb now that UI freeze slided, more small ltsp fixes.
<mvo> doko: we have it in multiverse currently (can probably go to universe/main)
<mdz_> ogra: what's the reason for the flickering?
<ogra> mdz_, g-s-s uses the default visual of the screen
<ogra> it must use the GL visual 
<doko> mvo: yes, was on my TODO list, now on your's ;p
* mvo kicks doko
<ogra> xscreensaver has handling for that in the daemon
<mdz_> ogra: good, should be straightforward from here.  thanks for tracking it down
<ogra> my job, eh ? ;)
<mdz_> indeed
<mdz_> pitti: next?
<pitti> educing-duplication:
<pitti>  * status: no progress last week; gnutls transition is ready on primary arches, SCCs need to catch up;
<pitti>  * plan: sort out SCCs for gnutls12, finish libgd demotion, discuss libsqlite0 demotion with infinity (php5-sqlite is the only package that needs to be changed)
<pitti> general stuff done this week: security updates, new langpacks, tons of bug triage and fixing, annoyed Kamion with lots of espresso bug reports, lots of font discussion for the l10n sprint
<pitti> next week: bug fixing, CD testing
<pitti> s/^/r/ :)
<Kamion> I demoted some of libgd yesterday
<pitti> I think it needs a rebuild of *desktop to get the python-gdchart out of it
<pitti> should be mostly brainless stuff
<infinity> pitti: I'm babysitting the SCCs with gnutls, I'll ping you when it's ready.
<pitti> thanks
<infinity> pitti: And we can discuss sqlite at another time.
<mdz_> pitti: looks like the main inclusion queue is back down to a reasonable size
<pitti> the only serious issue is sqlite, the rest is straightforward
<pitti> mdz_: I tried hard, but I still shy away from things like asterisk...
<Kamion> anastacia isn't too bad at the moment either
<sivang> asterisk to be brought in main? interesting.
<pitti> I did some cleanup yesterday, will do a followup on that next week
<mdz> Kamion: indeed, looking much more manageable
<mdz> thanks, both of you
<Kamion> there's some noise from hppa which will go away once it's caught up
<pitti> some stuff in it needs packaging fixes
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> This week: GNOME 2.14.0, fixed firefox so GNOME stuff build again, fixed xorg cursor theme use, played with new xkeyboard-config that fixes GNOME xkb issues which are a frequent user complain, update menu item names and tooltips with changes pointed by mail
<seb128> Tomorrow: bug day
<seb128> Next week(century?): bugs catching up and fixing (went from 10 unread bug mails before UI sprint to 400 and that's with keeping one mail unread by bug usually...lot of backlog to work on)
<Kamion> silbs tells me that the ops team is ready to go with promoting Xubuntu, so I may do that pretty soon
<Kamion> ops/support that is
<mdz> seb128: mmm, would be good to get GNOME+xkb sorted
<janimo> \o/
<seb128> mdz: updating xkeyboard-config from 0.6 to 0.8 would do it
<seb128> mdz: Mithrandir is looking on it
<mdz> janimo: ;-)
<Keybuk> . o O { it'd be nice if GNOME/X could get the right bloody key for PrintScreen }
<seb128> according to daniels there should be no issue with the upgrade
<seb128> (and works fine for me)
<mdz> seb128: what can we do to help you and dholbach process the desktop bugs faster?  any low-hanging fruit we could change in malone?
<pitti> seb128: for french keyboards :)
<seb128> mdz: nothing obvious no, the issue is the quantity of bugs coming atm ...
<kbrooks> Keybuk, isnt that discussion offtopic here
<seb128> mdz: would be nice to have the search non returning closed bugs though
<pitti> seb128++
<seb128> but bradb knows about it
<sivang> seb128++
<pitti> that's utterly annoying
<seb128> atm it takes ages to find a bug due to that
<mdz> seb128: is there a controversy over whether it should be changed?
<mdz> or is it to be fixed?
<seb128> to be fixed
<mdz> good
<Keybuk> I sat down with bradb a couple of weeks ago and gave him the spec for a "bugs I need to fix" page
<mdz> I'm not going to make it over to the LP sprint before I leave, but they're charging ahead over there
<Keybuk> I think the reason it isn't done is that LP would struggle to produce it in time
<Keybuk> so hopefully with the performance upgrades they've been doing, we'll see it soon
<mdz> Keybuk: is it written up?  I'd like to see it
<seb128> extending the number of bugs by page would be nice too
<mvo> seb128++
<pitti> right, even if it's just manually changing batch_end (but that doesn't work ATM)
<seb128> because having to browser 10 pages to browse the nautilus bug is really subobtimal
<Keybuk> mdz: I didn't, I'll find out whether he did
<dholbach> and make sorting work not across the 20 bugs displayed, but across the whole set
<mdz> seb128: agreed
<pitti> these issues are mainly a db problem
<seb128> dholbach: you can edit the URL for that
<pitti> it's not that it's wanted that way
<mdz> dholbach: really, does it not sort the full list?
<mdz> I see
<pitti> no, just the displayed batch
<Mithrandir> the sorting is useless due to that, IMO
<dholbach> mdz: the last time I tried not... from that time on, I only used advanced searches with handpicked bug statuses
<seb128> mdz: no, they dropped the option from the UI, and clicking on the column acts on the page
<seb128> mdz: but you can add the parameter by hand to the URI as a workaround
<mdz> ok, either deal with bradb/kiko directly or queue issues with iwj for next week
<mdz> seb128: thanks
<mdz> sivang: ?
<sivang> mdz: here
<mdz> sivang: you wanted to report something?
<sivang> mdz: had some good progress the last week, I can see the end now, approxmt. in one week from now or less
<mdz> sivang: ok
<sivang> mdz: backend are are ready, including burn and isobuilding, all left is glade and PyGTK UI hacking to finish.
<sivang> (including supoort for multisession for differential backups)
<mdz> sivang: please type your updates in advance in the future; it saves a great deal of time
<sivang> mdz: yes, sorry 
<mdz> sivang: thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>  ui sprint artwork
<Riddell>  flight 5
<Riddell>  fix the main problems in flight 5, and test & upload numberous other bugfixes people have sent me
<Riddell> currently doing:
<Riddell>  kdm usplash_down
<Riddell> next week: 
<Riddell>  kde espresso, KDE 3.5.2 packaging
<sivang> mdz: (a package will get uploaded soon to universe , so you could see where this is going)
<Kamion> espresso's gtkui has moved on a fair bit; though I've tried to keep kde-ui up to date with some of it, I couldn't manage it all, so you'll have a fair bit of catching up to do
<Kamion> suggestions for things that could be moved into common code are welcome
<sladen> * sivang pinged me about reviewing it, so I guess it's nearly there
<Riddell> Kamion: yep, I'll look out for that
<mdz> Riddell: happy to fund external work for kde espresso if you can find someone
<Riddell> some people from a spanish uni are helping but currently they seem to be rewriting the whole frontend, which isn't terribly helpful
<mdz> Riddell: how is the overall bug situation for kubuntu?
<Kamion> Riddell: that all sounds disturbingly familiar and should be nipped in the bud sooner rather than later
<Riddell> mdz: major bugs has improved a lot, CUPS is the only vital one still
<Kamion> people need to learn the value of incremental improvements that can be looked at piece by piece
<JaneW> mdz: I know this has been asked a million times but what's happening re the delay descision, has there beena  special TB sitting yet, or is one scheduled?
<mdz> JaneW: it happened yesterday
<pitti> Riddell: would upgrading to 1.2beta help in any way?
<Kinnison> mdz: When is bug day?
<mdz> the decision was ratified
<Kamion> JaneW: already done, delay agreed - sabdfl will be writing an announcement
<JaneW> oic
<mdz> Kinnison: tomorrow I think; coordinate with dholbach
<Kamion> and circulating it around CC/TB before sending
<JaneW> ok thanks, I missed that
<Riddell> pitti: I doubt it would make any difference, the problem is on KDE's side
<kbrooks> Kamion, what the?
<BenC> mdz: will this affect the sprint scheduled in May?
<kbrooks> oh SHIT...
<JaneW> I assumed it would be passed
<mdz> BenC: yes
<pitti> Riddell: I know, but KDE might port to 1.2 directly
* kbrooks curses at ubuntu
<Kinnison> mdz: I can only do that if I get agreement from stevea
<mdz> kbrooks: please
* Kinnison will ask him now
<dholbach> kbrooks: calm yourself
<JaneW> mdz: do we know any details of new sprint dates yet?
<BenC> mdz: delayed, or change of priorities in the sprint?
<Kamion> kbrooks: this is not the place. Please refrain from deliberately disrupting our meeting.
<Riddell> pitti: sure, it wouldn't make things any worse certainly
<mdz> BenC: will be rescheduled
<JaneW> BenC: I asked sabdfl and he said if Dapper is delayed the sprint will be delayed till after dapper is released
<mdz> JaneW: no, silbs and I were discussing it today
<JaneW> mdz: oh
<mdz> but yes, definitely after Dapper
<mdz> tentatively mid-June
<infinity> mdz: Which would put it pretty close to Spain, then.  Is that also affected/changed?
<mdz> infinity: probably will be replaced
<mdz> or merged
<JaneW> well need to sort this out soon, so that all the leave plans can get figured out again etc
<seb128> bah, after GUADEC was nice
* infinity agrees with JaneW.
<mdz> JaneW: silbs is planning it
<Kinnison> mdz: Essentially the answer is "no" unless I can get everything done I need to before then
<JaneW> mdz: and the debain folk can still go to debconf?
<infinity> I was planning on leave around the conference, so I'd like to get some dates so I can put in requeusts and plan. :)
<Kinnison> mdz: We're very busy here and since they only have me for a week they're making heavy use of me
<mdz> seb128: yes...but we will already be short on time for dapper+1 and need to meet earlier
<mdz> Kinnison: right, I thought you were there next week rather than this week
<mdz> Kinnison: no worries
<mdz> JaneW: as planned
<Kinnison> mdz: nup, I'm back on distro next week :-)
<mdz> infinity: it'll go out to the lists as soon as it's finalized
<infinity> mdz: Excellent, danke.
<infinity> Are we through meeting, then?
<mdz> we have a backlog of bugs in Malone which no one has looked at yet
<mdz> i.e., bugs which aren't automatically CCed to anyone
<mvo> do we have a filter for "main" and "universe" now?
<mdz> traditionally I had trawled these, but it's grown so far beyond my available time that it's laughable
<JaneW> I will be bugging anypone with goald which are not yet marked 'Implemented' in the morning. Be warned.
<Kamion> is there a way to get a report of those?
<infinity> How do we find bugs without auto-CCs?
<Kamion> snap
* seb128 tries to look quite often to new bug and grab desktopish one and reassign some
<mdz> seb128: yes, but you, too, are only one person ;-)
<seb128> right
<pitti> I tried to in the past, but the flood of universe bugs makes tracking ubuntu-bugs almost impossible
<Keybuk> there's no main/universe filter that I'm aware of
<pitti> or, at least, needs too much time
<mdz> Kamion: was talking with kiko about that yesterday, will see what can be done
<Keybuk> I was told that that query is damned hard in Launchpad, and would take minutes to run
<mdz> for now, ubuntu-bugs is a good start
<mdz> mvo: not yet, but it's on the whiteboard next to me as a target for the LP sprint
<mvo> Keybuk: maybe it would be possible to generate a static page for this (as a workaround)?
<Kinnison> Keybuk: pardon? minutes?
<mdz> mvo: kiko said it wouldn't be too hard
<sivang> seb128: please CC me on  g-s-t stuff that goes through you , I'll start taking look at them when I've finished with HUB.
<seb128> no human is able to keep up with ubuntu-bugs traffic
<Kamion> Keybuk: you mean the main/universe filter would take minutes?
<seb128> sivang: you know, you can subscribe to a package
<Keybuk> Kamion: yeh
<Kamion> I look at subject lines of about half the new bugs, randomly
<mdz> Kinnison: if you could poke a bit for us at the sprint about getting the report we need (bugs that no developer has looked at yet), that would be a great help
<Keybuk> Kinnison: cross-referencing all bug reports against component
<mdz> Kinnison: I didn't get that onto the original list
<sivang> seb128: oh right, will do :)
<Kamion> Keybuk: it could be done more easily as an X-Launchpad-Bug thing when mails go out, though, couldn't it?
<Kinnison> mdz: If you can produce a list of the queries we're interested in I will sit with brad and help him work out how to do it
<Kamion> that's simple, "is this bug filed on a package in main or universe"
<Keybuk> Kamion: that assumes you have every ubuntu-bugs e-mail in your mailbox ready to be filtered
<Kamion> I do. HAND. :-)
<Keybuk> Kamion: I was talking about getting a page of bug links for mass-triage purposes
<seb128> Keybuk: would be nice
<mdz> Kinnison: in addition to "display only bugs in main" functionality (which is on the list already), we need a report which shows us bugs we haven't touched yet
<Kamion> actually, we already have component=main in X-Launchpad-Bug
<Keybuk> Kamion: we do, yes
<Kamion> right, might start procmailing on that then
<Keybuk> if you have ubuntu-bugs, the headers are useful
<mdz> yes, I filter on that for ubuntu-bugs
* Keybuk gave up with ubuntu-bugs, it was just too much traffic
<mdz> there are other useful bits in the headers as well
<mdz> we need to wrap up here
<Kinnison> mdz: seriously I have no context as to what this is "in addition to" and I have only very patchy IRCness currently
<pitti> cool, /me will adjust his procmail settings for that
<Keybuk> mdz: release schedule
<Kinnison> mdz: mail it to me :-)
<mdz> revised release schedule is up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
<Kamion> release delay is NOT AN EXCUSE for new features
<mdz> Kamion++
<Kamion> i.e. we're still in feature freeze
<mdz> Kinnison: please read the log; you should know what was said here anyway
<Kinnison> okay, but it's gonna be tonight before I have time to trawl the log
<mdz> Kinnison: no problem
<Kinnison> okay
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<mdz> adjourned
<dholbach> thanks
<pitti> I have a last question: does anyone know whether/when we can do backports again?
<seb128> thank you mdz
<sivang> thanks mdz 
<doko> thanks
<nhaines> Wow, my first attended meeting.  Kinda exciting.
<nhaines> Thanks, everyone.  :)
<mdz> pitti: no, I don't...might be a good one for iwj next week
* mvo goes to back fontconfig
<infinity> pitti: Waiting on the backports automation tool to exist for LP.  Another elmo-special.
* sivang runs for a while
* dholbach hugs mvo
<Kamion> aren't backports a special case of syncs?
<pitti> alright, thanks
<infinity> pitti: I'll chase that one up this week, if you violently ping me.
<Kamion> oh, no, not quite I guess, version number gets tweaked
<infinity> Kamion: They're syncs with scary automated changelog abuse.
<pitti> the LP guys asked me for postgresql 8.1 packages, but now that we have them in b-backports, I'd like to keep them current
<Kamion> so syncs are a special case of backports. ;-)
<infinity> :)
<nhaines> dholbach, if you have time, I'd like to speak with you about bug triaging?
<dholbach> nhaines: we could move to #ubuntu-bugs
<nhaines> Thank you.
<infinity> Kamion: If what you're driving at is "there's common code here, and they could probably even be the same tool, with an extra scary 'this is a backport, fudge the version'" option, you're likely right.
<infinity> Kamion: If elmo doesn't have time, I can probably take his sync tool, snag the binNMU code from sbuild that does versoin and changelog munging already, do some s/perl/python/ across it, and call it good.
<infinity> Kamion: Or something. :)
<pitti> alright, thanks to everyone
* infinity parts as well./
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Mar 20:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
* Seveas hugs Ubugtu 
<sivang> Seveas: yes, he's is behaving today :)
<Seveas> and he will continue to
<Seveas> btw: all launchpad auth problems are solved too, work continues steadily on the bantracker
<Seveas> hmm
<sivang> Seveas: cool
<Seveas> sivang, what?
<sivang> Seveas: anwering on your previous comment
<Seveas> ah 
<Kinnison> that's a v. cute character
<highvoltage> 
<Kinnison> indeed
<Howdy125> Looks like an .. a with a squiggle over it and a pair of dice to me .. 
<jbailey> Howdy125: Make sure you're using utf-8
<jbailey> Otherwise some words like Montral will come out poorly, too.
<Howdy125> ty
<xhaker> i want that char combination
<xhaker> haha
<Lure>  
* toma is tom albers
<toma> hmm, maybe to early
<Riddell> toma: 1 hour 45 mins to go
<toma> ah, utc even
<toma> pompompom
<_^Smash^_> ? kubuntu-meeting?
<FunnyLookinHat> It's in 40 minutes.
<FunnyLookinHat> err,
<FunnyLookinHat> Yes.  40 minutes
<toma> 20
<Mr-Petah> hi all
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu Meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<raphink> hi
<allee> ho
<raphink> hi allee
<raphink> hi Lure
<Riddell> evening all
<Lure> hi raphink
<raphink> :)
<raphink> meeting now?*
<Riddell> certainly is
<robotgeek> hey Riddell raphink :)
<raphink> who is there for it?
<raphink> hi robotgeek
* toma is tom albers
* robotgeek is in for voting sprees and getting the latest on what's going to happen
* robotgeek is VenkatRaghavan
* Tm_T hides
* Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
<allee> allee is Achim Bohnet
* raphink is Raphal Pinson
* Lure is Luka Renko
* Tm_T is Jussi Kekkonen
<Riddell> no hobbbsee or jpatrick
<Riddell> Lure: are you LukaRenko?
<Lure> yep
<Riddell> good, glad one person with agenda items turned up :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> good thing indeed
<Tm_T> 13:47 < Hobbsee> night all...see you at 7am my time, 20.00 UTC
<Tm_T> ;)
<raphink> hopefully she'll be here by the minute
<raphink> heh
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> there
<Tm_T> haha
<Hobbsee> hey everyone!
<raphink> well done Tm_T ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<raphink> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> my machine thought actually booting up was overrated...
<Lure> hi Hobbsee
<raphink> hehe
<Hobbsee> hey Lure and raphink 
<Hobbsee> it booted the *third* time!
<Riddell> hmm, no tonio or jpatrick for this first item
<raphink> i'll call tonio
<Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> so second item is from Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> ah, yeah
<raphink> tonio is coming
<Hobbsee> do we want to wait for tonio?
<Riddell> Hobbsee: no, on you go
<Hobbsee> how many people do we have this morning?
<raphink> Hobbsee: I just called him he's coming
<Hobbsee> okay
<raphink> but you can begin
<Riddell> Hobbsee: at least seven I count
<Hobbsee> well, after last meeting, i checked out knemo - it looks pretty useful.  have people checked this out at all?
<jjesse> i'm here now
<raphink> kwwii: are you there?
<robotgeek> i'm not a dev, but i'm here for LukaRenko's point
<apokryphos> knemo is very cool; worked when I tried it last on dapper IIRC
<Hobbsee> how does it go on your system, in terms of cpu?
<kwwii> raphink: yepp
<raphink> kwwii: good :)
<apokryphos> knemo is never really server intensive :P
<robotgeek> Hobbsee: i use it, it seems fine
<Hobbsee> I suggest that we have a revote on it, as more people have now had time to test
<raphink> knemo is very light
<Hobbsee> Luka mentioned that it was cpu heavy, hence the question
<raphink> it is useful, informative and doesn't crash
<raphink> ah?
<Lure> I do not object in including it by default (I can turn it on), but it has impact on power management
<allee> I use knemo for more than a year.  CPU ~ 2 -3 % with min freq
<raphink> on power management Lure?
<raphink> how so?
<Lure> s/on/off/
<Tonio__> hi ;)
<Tonio__> sorry for beeing a bit late
<raphink> Lure: the version that is in dapper? or the newest one?
* apokryphos has to go out for quite a bit, but for the record I totally agree with the Description (Name) formulation for the K-menu
<Lure> CPU load of 3-4% when on low CPU freq
<raphink> hi Tonio__
<Riddell> do we have a main inclustion report for knemo?
<Lure> raphink: Dapper version
<Riddell> yes, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKNemo
* apokryphos *always* has knemo on. Not intensive :P
<raphink> Lure: doesn't the dapper version only watch the connections?
<Tonio__> Riddell: no news on that point, knemo is still universe, and I can confirm Lure's bug
<Lure> apokryphos: it is not intensive (that you would feel), but on lightly loaded system it uses same CPU time as xorg
<Riddell> doesn't knemo conflict with wlanassistant in terms of systray space?
<Hobbsee> hey Tonio_ 
<Tonio_> Riddell: wlassistant doesn't fit in the systray
<allee> knemo has customizable menu.  If we will make use of it (??) that's something knetdock apps has not
<Lure> Riddell: wlassitant does not really compare (and not in systray)
<Riddell> ok cool
<Tonio_> there is another app
<Riddell> so a voluteer please to add that main inclusion report to the main inclusion queue
<Lure> knetdockapp is similar (at least last version) and knetworkmanager (for future)
<Tonio_> called knetdockapp
<Tonio_> Lure: yeah ;)
<Riddell> then I'll put it on the CD and we can see if we get any complaints/complements
<Riddell> Hobbsee: care to volunteer since you brought the item up? :)
<Tonio_> I'm in contact with upstream, and it is activelly developped
<raphink> how many DF do we still have to go with the new schedule Riddell?
<Tonio_> but not as nice as knemo actually
<Lure> knetdockapp has almost 0% CPU usage, but universe version is not latest and as nice as knemo
<allee> Isn't knemo disabled by default? 
<Tonio_> allee: it  is
<Riddell> raphink: DF?
<raphink> dapper flight sorry Riddell
<Hobbsee> hehe preferably not.  i wouldnt know what to put in a main inclusion report
<Lure> allee: knemo is configured but not started by default
<allee> So do you turn it on to get feedback?
<Riddell> raphink: no idea, flights just come every two weeks if it's sane to do so
<allee> s/you/we/
<Riddell> Hobbsee: in the list of things to be reviewed
<allee> Riddell: to get feedback maybe a good idea for at leat one flight
<Tm_T> jpatrick: welcome
<Riddell> allee: yes, agreed
<jpatrick> Tm_T: hi
<Riddell> ok, lets move on
<Riddell> jpatrick had an item and Tonio_ is here now
<Lure> as I said, I do not feel CPU load is showstopper, but just concern as linux PM is already not as battery efficient as the ugly OS
<Tonio_> Riddell: as we discuss about network tools, could we take the oportunity to talk a bit about wlassistant ?
<raphink> hi jpatrick
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: please.  i'm always on the search for good ones :P
<jjesse> Tonio_: i used wlassastiant last night but couldn't get it to give me a dhcp address
<jjesse> had to do a sudo dhclient eth1
<jpatrick> bonsoir raphink 
<Tonio_> I didn't put it on the agenda, cause I finished the package last night, and I'm not available during the day now.....
<toma> Lure: those who have a problem with battery life, can turn it off if they get hit by it
<Lure> toma: exactly, this is why I am fine to turn it on by default
<toma> k
<Riddell> Tonio_: if it works better than kwifimanager we should try and get it in
<Tonio_> Riddell: testers needed for this ;)
<jjesse> it worked a lot better then kwifimanager
<Lure> Riddell: it is better, fot sure
<Riddell> Tonio_: where can we get it?
<Lure> s/fot/for/
<Tonio_> Riddell: revu
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: i'll test when i next take my laptop to uni.  because of the lack of wpa support, i cant test it at home
<jjesse> i couldn't get it to give me an ip address via dhcp, had to manually due it
<robotgeek> it's unanimously hated, kwifimanager
<Tonio_> still few polishing needed, but should be working
<Riddell> ok, everyone test wlanassistent!
<Riddell> and watch out for dhcp problems
<Hobbsee> robotgeek: +1.  it lies!
<Tm_T> Riddell: if you buy wlan system to me ;)
<robotgeek> Riddell: i have been using it since yesterday on powerpc, broadcom airport extreme, it works decently well
<Tonio_> Riddell: robogeek didn't have that problem yesterday, that's why more test is needed
<Tonio_> robotgeek: hehe, you're faster than me
<robotgeek> heh 
<Riddell> can we move on?
<kwwii> robotgeek: help me get my broadcom working and I'll test it :-)
<Tonio_> Riddell: please ;)
<robotgeek> kwwii: sure, after meeting maybe
<Riddell> jpatrick: go
<jpatrick> I thought we agreed on keeping the tabs on the button
<Tm_T> jpatrick: I thought too
<Av|XeN> is it possible that kubuntu can use multiple audio sources at the same time on onboard sound (i've tried a few guides)
<robotgeek> Av|XeN: wrong place to ask, please ask in #kubuntu
<Riddell> Av|XeN: that's a support question
<Av|XeN> ok sorry
<Riddell> jpatrick: I think they are all on the bottom now
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: i thought we did too, which was why the konsole tabs are now on the bottom too
<Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed, I changed all of them, except konqueror, of course
<Riddell> yes, so sorted?
<jpatrick> yep
<allee> yeap
<Lure> yes - new layout makes sense
<Riddell> Hobbsee: up again
<Hobbsee> ah crud.
<Riddell> :)
<Hobbsee> Are we going to get some kde pictures for flight 5? Surely we dont only have improvements only to gnome. Mornfall should have some pictures of the new Adept and the Update Notifier which should be somewhere in the documentation. What other areas of kde have been changed between breezy and dapper, that are worth putting into the summary page?
<Hobbsee> we're starting to get questions on "well, what does the upgrade do for me?  what's new in kde?  i can see all this stuff in gnome"
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I'd love someone to work on the flight info pages for kubuntu
<Riddell> it just needs someone to do it
<robotgeek> that page was usually done by doc team, i think
<jjesse> Riddell: i would like to take that role, but i'm a little busy rright now
<Hobbsee> do we have a main list on what's been changed or something?
<Riddell> screenshots don't take long but finding what to screenshot and the text and all does take time
<robotgeek> for ubuntu, atleast
* Snake__ is Ken Minardo
<bkjones> I could volunteer some small amounts of time to help with the docs there, riddell
<Riddell> bkjones: excellent
<Riddell> next flight may well be end of next week
<jjesse> flight6?
<raphink> ok
<Hobbsee> i'm kinda busy for the next week or so - darn uni assignments all being due then, so  i'm hesitant to commit to much
<jjesse> Riddell: how owould you see the pages looking like, DapperFlight6/Kubuntu
<jjesse> ???
<Riddell> bkjones: fancy talking with jjesse and whoever does the ubuntu flight notes to make sure kubuntu is well covered?
<raphink> jjesse: or the opposite?
<bkjones> riddell: that's my first volunteer thing for kubuntu. I'll need either an account on some wiki or an email addy to mail docs to. 
<jjesse> KubuntuDapperFlight6?
<robotgeek> Matt Galvin
<Tm_T> jjesse: I like to help a bit with it if I can
<bkjones> bkjones@gmail.com :-
<bkjones> :-)
<Riddell> bkjones: anyone can get a wiki account, just sign up on launchpad.net
<jjesse> bkjones you could work with me (jjesse@iserv.net)
<bkjones> ok
<Riddell> bkjones: jjesse's release notes already contain a lot of what's new
<raphink> bkjones: you only need to sign up on launchpad.net and log with this account on the wiki
<robotgeek> bkjones: possibly join us in #ubuntu-doc too
<bkjones> robotgeek: done. 
<Riddell> bkjones: do join us in #kubuntu-devel and I'll poke when flight is going to happen
<Lure> bkjones, jjesse: thanks for this - I think getting message through is as important as fixing bugs
<jjesse> bkjones: we canchat on this
<bkjones> maybe the general docs are better for me. I've used breezy and now I'm on dapper, but I'm not sure I could really list changes between the two. 
<raphink> Lure: indeed
<jjesse> Lure: its something that i've been meaing to do, but need to finish my booik chapter first
<jjesse> if you guys would stop changing things :)
<Lure> ;-)
<raphink> jjesse: lol
<Riddell> bkjones: ask us on #kubuntu-devel, we'll tell you what's new and good
<Tonio_> jjesse: hehe
<Hobbsee> jjesse: you dont have books that change automatically?  weird
<Snake__> Lol
<jjesse> grin :)
<bkjones> hey, by any chance, are there plans to add widescreen wallpapers? 
<raphink> Hobbsee: hardcoding doc is bad :p
* bkjones has dual mons. 
<Riddell> bkjones: that's other business, wait to the end
<Riddell> Lure: you're up
<Lure> bkjones: that is very wide... ;-) 
<bkjones> heh. 
<bkjones> k
<bkjones> :)
<Lure> Should we change default layout of KDE menu from "Name (Description)" to "Description (Name)"
<Hobbsee> -25
<Snake__> How come??
<jjesse> too late to change that the doc is done :)
<allee> +25
<Riddell> Lure: I think we go with the KDE default on this
<Lure> this was discussed on forums and got big support
<Tonio_> Lure: I personnaly don't like "description (name)"
<Riddell> and I know KDE has switche back and forth, so I don't want to do the same
<Snake__> -25 as well..
<robotgeek> jjesse: i have a script , talk to me :)
<kwwii> bkjones: we could make a 16:9 or 16:10 version of the wallpaper if there is space or it is another question
<raphink> I don't like this either
<Riddell> Lure: and neither way solves the problem
<allee> GenricName (name) passed my family test
<Hobbsee> personally, i say use name (description), because a) it seems more logical, and b) if you launch an app from the run command, or from katapult, you need to know it's name.
<Snake__> Lure: Just out of curiosity, how come?
<jjesse> i don't think this needs to be changed
<raphink> allt he more that Name is requried in desktop files, whereas GenericName is not
<bkjones> kwwii: that'd be good. 
<Tm_T> Hobbsee: agreed
<raphink> Hobbsee: yes
* Snake__ would like to hear his side of why.
<bkjones> ack. Meeting for me. Bbiab. 
<Riddell> some apps we want to have branded so you know the name, others we don't, I'd like a field added to the .desktop files to indicate the correct way to show them
<allee> Newbies don't care about app name, that search for GenericName
<Riddell> Lure: do you have any rationale?
<Lure> Snake__: it is due to most KDE apps starting with k, requiring more to read. See the link on forums for explanaation
<allee> Hirvinen: and appname is in () to alt-f2
<Tonio_> Lure: there are plenty of applications that use a crappy GenericName like "a kde application"
* Snake__ nods with Tonio_ 
<Tonio_> I always change that in my package, but that can cause an issue too
<allee> Tonio_: This needs to be fixed independently of this topic ;)
<Lure> Tonio_: I have switched and not that many have bad description - but some should change
<Hirvinen> allee: Are you addressing me or are you just using an inferior IRC client?
<raphink> allee: well this is a fact that our apps are not ready for this
<allee> Hirvinen: oops
<Tm_T> Hirvinen: prolly bad tabfill
<Tonio_> allee: well, it is of any interest talking about the way to display the information
<Tonio_> the Name is always good, not the genericname
<jjesse> can i ask why we would deviate from what is default from KDE?
<Tonio_> so the first given information as to be the valid one to me
<Hobbsee> what is the default kde?  name (description) ?
<allee> jjesse: better for newbies (in my experience)
<Lure> allee: +1
<raphink> Mandriva has an easy switcher in the kmenueditor iirc
<Riddell> hmm, my menu is  description (name)
<raphink> to switch between "name (description) and description (name)"
<Snake__> :-/
<Tm_T> raphink: it's in kicker options
<raphink> actually
<Tonio_> Riddell: my one is default, and is "Name (Description)"
<jjesse> i have amarok (Audio Player)
<raphink> they allow to switch to another kmenu presenttion too
<Riddell> Tonio_: I'm sure I haven't changed it, curious
<Snake__> Ive never had a problem with Name (Descip)
<robotgeek> mine is in Name (Deskcription) format
<Tm_T> raphink: that what I need
<Lure> Riddell: ;-)
<nlindblad> Name (Description) here too
<Snake__> People chatch on to whats going on
<Lure> Riddell: and you like it? ;-)
<Snake__> catch**
<Riddell> neither is great, and I don't see any one option being significantly better than the other
<robotgeek> Riddell: i had that problem as i moved my .kde from breezy
<jjesse> could this be a discussion for dapper+1?
<Hobbsee> and when you have more than one media player, it shows up as (mediaplayer) app 1, mediaplayer, app2, mediaplayer, app 3, which looks weird adn unhelpful
<Tm_T> I have just "name"
<jpatrick> Tm_T: +1
<robotgeek> one big -ve is that we have to change all kubuntu docs
<Snake__> +1 Hobbsee 
<nlindblad> jjesse: yeah, not that big of an issue
<Tm_T> descriptions use too much space ;)
<raphink> jjesse: +1
<Hirvinen> It seems that a lot of people at least on freenode are using clients that try to complete the first word of a line into a nick. Which is a bit problematic when people begin with a hi.
<Riddell> jjesse: yes, I'd like to do it better for dapper + 1, where we can choose which to show in the .desktop file
<Hobbsee> Riddell: breezy seemed to prefer Description (Name)
<allee> When I first wanted to switch to genericname (name) is as already selected by not used.  deselecting and selection again made it work (but that was long time ago)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: that could well be that KDE changed it then
<Tonio_> Riddell: if we can be sure desc is not a "a good kde application" for ALL universe apps, then I'll approve
<Lure> Hobbsee: this is actually better, as they are auto-grouped
<Tonio_> but that generic genericname is very often used
<Lure> robotgeek: good point about docs...
<allee> Tm_T: there no difference between space of 'description (name)' or 'name (description)'
<Riddell> a lot of gnome apps don't have a GenericName too
<Tm_T> allee: I use only 'name'
<allee> Tm_T: purist
<Tm_T> allee: but no, it's not good default
<Snake__> Tm_T: just name would be confusing tho..
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes, gnome apps generally use a description as "name"
<Riddell> Tonio_: which just shows that the spec if broken, if they feel they can't stick to it
* Snake__ could see the users going to launch amarok and typing "Media-Player" in run...
<nlindblad> yeah
<Riddell> does anyone feel strongly about this issue, or can we agree to stick with KDE default until dapper+1?
<nlindblad> +1
<trappist> I think the description is a parenthetical issue, where the name is not.  I like to see what app it is, then maybe the description.  especially since so many apps have identical descriptions (see your multimedia menu)
<Snake__> +1 Riddell 
<Tonio_> Riddell: exactly
<jjesse> +1 riddell
<allee> Kmenu: uses currently  name (genericname) and on comment is shown in tooltips
<Hobbsee> +1 Riddell 
<Lure> Riddell: if no generic name, than name is used (se open office)
<jpatrick> +1
<Tm_T> +1 Riddell 
<Lure> s/se/see/
<raphink> Riddell: +1
<robotgeek> so we arent changing what is currently in my menu? if so, +1
<Riddell> anyone know who V7 is?
<Snake__> +1
<raphink> let's report to dapper+1
<Lure> Riddell: I do not feel strongly, just that newbees would be better with proposed change
<Hobbsee> Riddell: nope, but i'd say that's a very useful key map to do
<Riddell> I'm happy for win key to map to k-menu, I just don't know how
<Hobbsee> because the windows key is fairly useless at the moment
* robotgeek uses mod4 key for a lot of things
<Riddell> I remember looking at it years ago and not being able to work it out
<Tonio_> Riddell: I know how ;)
<nlindblad> Riddell: that's something we want, yeah
* raphink has no win key on his powerbook
<Riddell> so first one to come up with the patch to k-d-s gets their name in the changelog
* Tm_T use winkey to handle desktops
<toma> I would like that mapped as well, but i understood it was not possible anymore in KDE
<kwwii> screw the win key
<Riddell> so long as it doesn't conflict with other uses of the win key
<Tonio_> Riddell: I will have a look on that soon
<Hobbsee> Riddell: what, no pony?  :P
<Riddell> I don't even have a win key on my thinkpad
<robotgeek> for mac users, the windows key becomes the command key
<raphink> the win key is used for amarok
<Tonio_> guys do you appreciate ksnapshot on the print key ?
<raphink> by default
<Tm_T> raphink: yup
<raphink> win + V 
<kwwii> i would love it if I had one
<Riddell> raphink: I know, means I can't use any shortcuts for amarok by default
<toma> Tonio_: yes
<raphink> to stop playing in amarok
<nlindblad> Tonio_: yes
<kmon> Tonio_: +1
<Lure> Tonio_: +1
<nlindblad> Tonio_: +1
<Tonio_> it is already added for info ;) just wanted a feedback
<Tm_T> Tonio_: +99
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: +1
<allee> Tonio_: +1 for ksnapshot
<robotgeek> Tonio_: i don't use it, but +1
<raphink> Tonio_: rock
<Tonio_> just press "print"
<Riddell> Lure: next item is yours
<Snake__> Tonio_: Print screen would be great
<Lure> I am just wondering if there is more candidates that could test Kpowersave
<Lure> I would personally like to get latest powersave/kpoersave in Universe for dapper
<Tonio_> Lure: ++
<nlindblad> Lure: what is it? Brief introduction
<raphink> Lure: I still need to be able to build the latest version ;)
<Lure> replacement for klaptop
<nlindblad> advantages?
<Tonio_> way better replacement :)
<robotgeek> Lure: will this work on powerpc machines as well?
<Lure> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave
<raphink> Lure: when I get an option to build it without libsysfs.la
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave for more info
<Tonio_> nlindblad: well, by far better in any point of view ;)
<Lure> robotgeek: it should, but no packages yet
<nlindblad> IMO, klaptop is old and poorly translated
<Hobbsee> Lure: i'll certainly test it out, when i get the chance
<Tonio_> it is a top3 app on kde-apps
<robotgeek> Lure: i can build from source package myself
<nlindblad> not very userfriendly
<Lure> robotgeek: and we need to fix building issue with latest libsysfs
<Riddell> people testing doesn't solve the main issue which is that I've been too busy to learn how they both work and what the best way to do power management is in kubuntu
<Hobbsee> and klaptop seem to crash every time i hit suspend, which is kind of inconvenient.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: true
<allee> raphink: that's easy;) rebuild all sources that have libsysfs.la in their .la files.  Grep is your friend ;)
<raphink> allee: libsysfs.la was voluntarily removed from the libsysfs-dev package by pitti
<Tonio_> Riddell: my opinion : gnome is using the best gtk apps available, and it is a bit sad not using one of the best kde application "because we have to stick with gnome choices"
<Riddell> if those packages are in main, raphink has main upload rights now so he can fix them all :)
<Lure> raphink: exactly - we need to ask pitti for reason
<Tonio_> Riddell: although I can understand this of course ;) but if we want the best kde desktop implementation, we have to use the best apps
<allee> raphink: I know. Rebuild that packages that have libsysfs.la in their .la files and libsysfs.la reference goes away
<Lure> Riddell: I am shooting for Universe only - this will ensure testers.
<raphink> Lure: yes I agree. I tried to ping him. It seems to be fixing a Debian bug. didn't check further though
<Lure> Riddell: if feedback is good, then decision for main would be easier
<raphink> allee: hmmm
<Riddell> so plan is for Lure to get new version into universe, and me to read up on these power tools
<allee> raphink: \sh once did this when libXft.la went away
<raphink> same here
* nlindblad has a stupid idea
<Lure> I am counting on MOTU for getting packages in... ;-)
<raphink> allee: mhm
<Tm_T> nlindblad: what is it?
<nlindblad> why not have a repository for things we WANT tested
<Riddell> nlindblad: launchpad will provide peronal repositories at some point
<raphink> Lure: sure, ping Riddell, Tonio_, jpatrick or me for uploads
<nlindblad> Riddell: nice
<Lure> Riddell: I will also try to get some feedback from ubuntu-laptop people (Matthew) to get buy in
<raphink> (I think I'm forgetting some people..
<jpatrick> Lure hi
<Riddell> Lure: yes, please do
<Riddell> is Nirvana here?
<Tm_T> Riddell: is he ever here?
<Lure> jpatrick: hi
<Snake__> Lol
<robotgeek> i remember Nirvana posting last meeting too, i think
<jpatrick> hehe
<Riddell> well if he reads the logs, he can go and ask amu about klickibunti
<Riddell> kmon: next
<raphink> yes he posts but doesn't show at the meeting
<Hobbsee> what is klickibunti?  same as klik?
<kmon> AFAIK gnome has a usplash theme for the halting process... When will this enter kubuntu?
<Snake__> Hobbsee: I dont think so..
<Riddell> kmon: I've actually been working on this all day and not got very far :(
<Hobbsee> no, can that, i dont want to know.  there are better things to discuss.
<Tonio_> Riddell: :(
<Riddell> kdm is horribly complex and I got it working for shutdown from kdm, but not shutdown from within KDE
<kmon> I though it was changing the artwork only... but I don't know anything about it, really
<kwwii> I made the (I think) current usplash, I can make the shutdown pic too
<Riddell> this is a technical problem, and one the usplash authors never bothered to tell me about
<Hobbsee> kwwii: the very blue one?  it's horrendous!
<Riddell> we need kdm to run usplash_down at the right time
<kwwii> hehe
<robotgeek> Hobbsee: http://www.klickibunti.org/buntibunti.php
<Snake__> LOL
<kwwii> Hobbsee: did you see the lighter version? I will probably make that even lighter and you will love it :-9
<Hobbsee> ARGH!  My eyes!  my eyes!
<Riddell> I'll post my patch on the bug report, but I don't want to spend ages on kdm
<Riddell> so... artwork
<nlindblad> how is suspend2 doing?=
<raphink> robotgeek: ouch
<robotgeek> lol
<Tm_T> robotgeek: murderer
<kmon> Riddell: ok, thanxs for the info
<Tonio_> kwwii: is it added to k-d-s ? I didn't saw any change past 4 days
<kwwii> I put it up on the wiki, below the first one
<Tonio_> kwwii: url ?
<kwwii> it shows how much better it can get by being only a slight bit lighter, so going even more extreme will work even better
<Riddell> kwwii is working on the artwork for dapper, if anyone has things he should be working on add them to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperArtworkTodo
<kwwii> wiki.kubuntu.org/DapperKubuntuDesktop I think
<Tm_T> kwwii: I will talk to you about this later ;)
<raphink> :)
<kwwii> I realize now, after seeing the artwork that you like what you want
<nlindblad> is Firefox in kubuntu-desktop yet?
<robotgeek> Riddell: offtopic, but do you know when/if the "certificate error" will go away on wiki.kubuntu.org
<apokryphos> yuck 
<Tm_T> nlindblad: stop cursing
<jpatrick> nlindblad: never ;)
<nlindblad> Tm_T: sorry
<Tm_T> ;)
<Riddell> nlindblad: no, we use konqueror
<kwwii> and I will say now that I do not want to go soooo non-saturated but lets meet half way and see what comes out
<nlindblad> I know
<kwwii> the pic posted on the meeting page is probably not 16bit safe btw
<Hobbsee> kwwii: +1
<Riddell> robotgeek: not remembering it seems to be a KDE bug, maybe it's fixed in KDE 3.5.2
<Lure> kwwii: +1
<robotgeek> Riddell: heh, definetly not a kde bug. 
<Tonio_> kwwii: ++ ;)
<Riddell> kwwii: will we be able to get a stupidly large wallpaper for 1900 screens or is that too much work?
<nlindblad> why not SVG?
<apokryphos> why not svgs? :)
<Lure> Riddell: my 1920x1200 is only 15.4"
<Lure> ;-)
<Snake__> Holy crap Lure !
<raphink> svg rock :)
<Riddell> nlindblad: it's rendered from a 3D modelling tool
<nlindblad> Riddell: okey, sorry
<Tonio_> svg with that quality image and so many effects would be REALLY heavy
<raphink> ah
<allee> current bg is too nervous imho.  Hobbsee suggestion is much more releaxed.
<sladen> Tonio_: but it's only rendered once, and cached after that
<bkjones> back
<nlindblad> having the default wallpaper as SVG would give people a nice impression
<Hobbsee> there's a wallpaper for that too, apart from the kdm theme.
<Snake__> nlindblad: and also kill my P3
<Tonio_> sladen: hum.......
<nlindblad> Snake__: sorry, I must have too new hardware here ;)
<Tonio_> kwwii: any opinion on svg wallpaper ? I really doubt it but well....
<Riddell> sladen: SVG wallpapes are not cached
<Riddell> Tonio_: it's not an option
<Lure> sladen: so it is stored in .png in cache dir?
<Riddell> Lure: don't listen to sladen, he didn't write the code (I did)
<raphink> breezy had a svg wallpaper iirc
<Snake__> Where can I find this SVG thing at?
<Snake__> the wallpaper..
<Seveas> Riddell, then add the caching code ;)
<Riddell> there is no SVG wallpaper!
<kwwii> hrm
<Riddell> any other artwork comments?
* Snake__ hides
<Tonio_> raphink: breezy had svg source of png wallpaper ;)
<bkjones> just my "dual screen wallpaper" request, riddell
<Tonio_> which is different :)
<bkjones> :)
<kwwii> well, I can definitely post the xcf file for the wallpaper if that helps
<Riddell> bkjones: what's the requirements again?
<raphink> well I made my comments on the new window style killing my powerbook already ;)
<bkjones> there's a good bit of it, just doesn't come with the distro
<Hobbsee> Riddell: to change the kdm, and maybe the default screensaver to http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30314 ?
<Riddell> we have a default screensaver?
<Hobbsee> there seem to have been many complaints in the past few days about the bright blue
<Hobbsee> er, desktop
<kwwii> dude, I turned up the bling on the crystal style and my powerbook is running fine
<Hobbsee> but why *dont* we have a default screensaver?
<robotgeek> Hobbsee: _1
<Snake__> KDE has screensavers?
<Snake__> j/p
<robotgeek> +1
<kwwii> although, I do have 1.5GB of RAM
<raphink> Riddell: good idea
<Riddell> because screensavers are annoying and get in the way
<bkjones> requirements would be that the wallpaper should be twice as wide as it is high. I'm not a graphics geek. Sorry. 
<bkjones> :(
<Riddell> (in my humble opinion :)
<Lure> raphink: I am also seing delay on rendering - particularly with "ati" driver on low CPU freq
* jpatrick likes the clock one
<Riddell> bkjones: you have the same wallpaper on both screens?
<Tm_T> jpatrick: I like too
<Tonio_> Riddell: ++ I never used screensaver
<bkjones> I think what I have now is 2560x1024
<kwwii> a really simple screensaver with a kubuntu logo on black might be nice
<Riddell> bkjones: I think that's very hard to satisfy with a default wallpaper
<raphink> Lure: I'm seeing it just without nothing special launched
<bkjones> riddell: wallpaper crosses screens. 
<bkjones> riddell: not default, just make it available
<bkjones> default wallpaper looks goofy on dual mons. 
<kwwii> bkjones: you mean stretching the pic to cross screens?
<bkjones> gets all stretched out. There's not a good way to deal with them on duals. 
<kwwii> or mirroring it, etc.
<bkjones> yeah. 
<Riddell> bkjones: ask kwwii for the xcf's and make one for us
<Tonio_> bkjones: we can't provide 100 wallpapers to fit with exceptionnal configurations like yours
<bkjones> exceptional? Half my dept. has the same setup!
<Tonio_> how many different resolutions do exist ? dozens I assume :)
<nlindblad> off-topic: is the installation program capable of resizing NTFS-partitions?
<Riddell> bkjones: that's quite an exceptional departement :)
<bkjones> well, thanks ;-)
<robotgeek> maybe art.kubuntu.org is required
<kwwii> I have a long list of resolutions available on modern hardware if anyone wants it
<Riddell> nlindblad: it uses libparted, see their website
<trappist> we could have kde-wallpapers-$(resolution) packages
<kwwii> it is really long
<nlindblad> Riddell: okey
<toma> i would welcome a background which is usable for dual monitor setup as well
<bkjones> yeah, you can find these wallpapers on kde-look and any other site that has wallpaper, but it'd be awesome if they were "just there(tm)". 
<bkjones> Just a thought. I'm done :)
<kwwii> to be honest making so many resolutions is not soo hard, it is more the point of making about 3 different aspect ratios
<Tm_T> kwwii: if I print it as reasonable font, would it be over 100 pages?
<Riddell> toma: don't most dual monitor setups use 1 image on each screen?
<kwwii> 4:3 16:9 and 16:10
<kwwii> Tm_T: well, more like 20 lines or so
<bkjones> look at the available ones online. I believe they only make like one or two widescreen sizes for each one. 
<toma> Riddell: hmm, i was thinking about it, but i'm not sure, too bad im not at my office now. 
<Riddell> kwwii: but even if we have that I don't think we have a way to get it to use the right one by default
<Tm_T> kwwii: bah, boring, I thought I have some night reading
<toma> Riddell: you might be right.
<kwwii> yeah, so forget it
<Riddell> toma: I've no idea, never used one
<bkjones> I love the "soft green" wallpaper, btw, which I think just appeared after an update last night at home. 
<kwwii> we could put optional aspect ratios in some package somwhere though
<kwwii> it is almost crazy to talk about doing that for dual monitor setups
<toma> bkjones: is that with xinerama?
<kmon> i currently use this: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556 Tm_T liked it ;)
<bkjones> just throw 'em in a directory under the default. 
<kwwii> just mirror the pick
<bkjones> toma: twinview :-)
<bkjones> so when I browse for wallpaper I can find them, but they're out of the way of most users. 
<toma> bkjones: ah, i think xinerama uses the same on both minotors.
<Tonio_> kwwii: I would, personnaly, appreciate that kubuntu offers something other that "only blue"
<Tm_T> kmon: and I already modified it
<toma> i'm pretty sure...
<bkjones> no, xinerama will let you do the same thing I'm doing. 
<Tonio_> kwwii: just a suggestion, of course ;)
<Riddell> well, that's an hour up, I have to go in a sec, any other business?
<kwwii> Tonio_: making different color versions will be very easy
<Tonio_> Riddell: just a point about emergency bugs :)
<kwwii> Tonio_: in the end the bubbles are all on one level with alpha and the bg color is on another
<Tonio_> is that possible ?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: just more stuff about everything now being far too bright blue
<Lure> Riddell: I heard rumors that NM 0.6 was discussed on developers meeting. true?
<kwwii> so theoretically we could just use the grey mapped pic and colorize it in kde
<Riddell> Tonio_: go
<Tonio_> we still have no idea of what to do with kdeprint, and my patch on kicker systelapplet creates an issue
<Riddell> Tonio_: patch on kicker?
<Tonio_> Riddell: the systemapplet, using system:/
<Riddell> Tonio_: in the worst case for kdeprint well include a CUPS 1.1 package
<Tonio_> Riddell: works nice, but causes the "system" button in konq sidebar to fail loadingh
<Riddell> Tonio_: what's that issue again?
<Tonio_> I couldn't find the reason, so coder needed
<kwwii> if we did it with a grey scale pic, we could even include three or four kde themes with different colors for everything
<Tonio_> Riddell: but it works nice for the systemapplet itseft
<Riddell> Tonio_: I suggest discussing with ervin on #kde-devel
<raphink> Riddell: I'd think cups should not get these messages on the error output
<toma> maybe explaining the whole issue?
<Tonio_> Riddell: I will thanks :)
<Tonio_> raphink: +1
<Hobbsee> kwwii: that'd be cool
<Tonio_> this is what the gnome-cups-manager does
<Tonio_> the error message appears, but only in the standard output
<Riddell> Lure: yes, keybuk did mention n-m 0.6, if that goes in we should package knetworkmanager toot sweet and get it working
<raphink> no the gnome-cups-manager just ignores the message
<toma> Tonio_: what are you trying to do?
<Tonio_> toma : concerning systemapplet ?
<raphink> the best option would be to shut the message up in cups
<Riddell> Hobbsee: talk to kwwii :)
<Lure> Riddell: I do not this we should go with old cups due to error message
<toma> yes
<toma> Tonio_: yes
<Hobbsee> will do
<Lure> Riddell: great news
<Tonio_> toma: the dault usage of "syste:/home causes many issues, so I patched it to use $HOME instead
<Tm_T> ok, thanks for your time, I go to sleep, good night ->
<Tonio_> toma: works nice, but now the system componant of konqsidebar fails loading
<Tonio_> and I don't figure why
<Riddell> anyone want to write minutes from this meeting?
<Tonio_> kwwii: in fact I was talking about a "bicolor" theme
<Tonio_> instead of several "monocolor" ones ;)
<toma> Tonio_: would it be better to fix the apps?
<Tonio_> like you did with suse for example ;) nice mix of blue and green
<Tonio_> toma: fix the apps ?
<Tonio_> toma: can you imagin how many fixes to provide ?
<Tonio_> ;)
<raphink> +1 for green
<toma> Tonio_: what kind of troubles are there with apps?
<raphink> well contrary of suse I would say
<raphink> blue being main color and green completing the picture
<Tonio_> toma: about all applications are copying files in tmp before execution
<Tonio_> like kate, kaffeine etc........
<kwwii> Tonio: bicolor, for accesability you mean
<Tonio_> toma: that's a PAIN when using files more than 60 megs
<kwwii> I am done working on green
<kwwii> :-)
<raphink> lol
<toma> Tonio_: yes, but i think that that is the problem to be solved, not changing system:/home's behaviour
<kwwii> ahhhh, now I get it
<Tonio_> kwwii: just using 2 colors because it is a bit nicer that basing everything on one only in my view :)
<allee> Tonio_: afaiu this is not done by apps by what ever does   %f interpretation in .desktop files
<Tonio_> toma: I don't feel the need of that system:/home feature
<Lure> toma: how - as too many aps consider system:/ as remote
<kwwii> Tonio_: I understand now
<Tonio_> except making the address bar nice, what does it brings ? only problems
<allee> Exec=whatever %f    # everything other than file:// url are copied and then passed to app
<raphink> kwwii: I think having a bit of green woiuld be nice
<Tonio_> allee: so patching .desktop files could do the job ????????
<toma> Lure: a call to mostlocal() from kio would solve that, but that is only for kde apps
<kwwii> Tonio_: it is really hard to work out a theme like that which is changeable in any way. Once it looks good you normally cannot change anything without messing it up
<toma> that would convert system:/home/bla to /home/toma/bla
<kwwii> raphink: yeah, I was just kidding about the green
<allee> Tonio_: no :(  %u  will pass all kinds of URLs
<Riddell> toma: so that's what kaffeine needs to do
<raphink> kwwii: hehe ;)
<toma> Riddell: exactly
<Riddell> but wouldn't solve the problem for openoffice
<Tonio_> Riddell: and ANY gnome app ;)
<Tonio_> gimp causes problem
<Riddell> yes
<Tonio_> firefox too
<kmon> One issue I had with using the default system:/ behaviour in the location was that I could compress files with ark
<allee> Tonio_: IMHO system: home: etc should be converted to /path/to/file and then passed to the app.
<Tonio_> kwwii: yes I can understand that 
<kmon> s/could/couln't
<allee> Tonio_: obviously not all of KDE core can handle system: home:
<Tonio_> allee: yes but well........
<toma> ok, is that passsed to the app via the cli or how does the system:/home comes into OOo?
<Riddell> toma: yes, passed as an argument when it starts
* Snake__ is still Ken Minardo
<toma> the same issue is there for media:/sda1 for usb sticks
<toma> so you keep on patching things
<Lure> allee: can the conversion be done by the process doing Exec from .desktop?
<Tonio_> really that change in the systemapplet only brings problems
<allee> Lure: yes, that was my understanding
<Tonio_> not one intersting feature at least......
<toma> i can provide a executable which converts it, if that helps
<Tonio_> toma: and what about widely used gnome apps, like gimp ?
<kwwii> if I make the wallpaper much ligher it would be easy to get away with using a very light green theme for the default konqi startpage
<toma> Tonio_: what do you mean? It can never be called from the cli with a system:/home parameter
<toma> that will never work
<toma> so it has to be converted before
<Tonio_> toma: what about when you're browsing the system with system:/home
<Tonio_> and double click an image to open it with gimp ?
<Tonio_> that crashes........
<Tonio_> that's why the idea has been to make usage of $HOME
<toma> right, but the same goes todocuments located at media:/sda1 
<Tonio_> witch works in *any* cases
* allee assumes that gnomes kill us if we use media2path in their desktop files
<toma> allee: that would be fun you mean ;-)
<Tonio_> toma: yes that's another issue
<toma> Tonio_: i would prefer 'localizing' the parameter, but i dont have a solution....
<Tonio_> toma: that's the problem
<Tonio_> and my patch doesn't work as nicelly as it should
<allee> Tonio_: if we can find that does the URL -> %f conversion, we could add your code to preprocess to file://
<Tonio_> so waiting for a better solution, correcting my patch for the system:/home part would be nice ;)
<Lure> Tonio_, toma: which process handles %f - this one could do translation on-the-fly
<Tonio_> allee: indeed yes
<allee> toma: isn't this an attractive challange :)
<toma> messy ;-)
<Lure> allee: I am a bit suprised this is not a concern in general KDE community
<Lure> or is system:/ Kubuntu specific?
<toma> no
<allee> Lure: no KDE in general
<Lure> then let's kill system: ;-)
<allee> Lure: KDE devels are aware of the problem AFAIK, but the korrect solution needs KDE 4
<toma> yes, i fundamentally agree that system:/home is evil.
* allee nods
<Lure> toma: there is also system:/users...
<toma> someone goes into a terminal and assumes /home =system:/home
<Lure> and home:/
<Lure> I kind of think this is against usability goal of Kubuntu
<toma> hmm, you can wonder what system:/ adds at all
<Riddell> toma: I think it's so that the Up button works as expected
<toma> ;-)
<toma> what dfunctionality would you loose if we did not compile system-kio?
<Riddell> the system applet on kicker for one
<kwwii> ouch, you need that
<Riddell> so no minute taker?
<kwwii> either that or an icon for all of that through hal on the desktop
<kwwii> Riddell: my wife was amazed at the quality of your minute taking abilities
<allee> media:, system:, home: whatever is kind of useful in knoqueror and save*dialogs, but evil as soon as passed via K*Process like classes to outside kdelibs core
<kwwii> my wife seemed to have spent a good deal of time googling for your name
<sladen> kwwii: Riddell is a well practised Quaker at such things :)
<Riddell> kwwii: to make sure I won't be a bad infuence on you?
<kwwii> Riddell: I think so...you passed her test
<allee> toma: system:, home: and media: collect infos distributed in a tree to a flat view
<Riddell> sladen: not today I'm not, or I'd have them all done by now
<kwwii> I didn't come home drinking any more or less than I did before :-)
<Riddell> so end of meeting?
<allee> e.g, / and /media/whaever (and /var or /usr/local etc)
<allee> Riddell: yes :)
<Riddell> thanks all, carry on discussions on #kubuntu-devel
<raphink> k
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> @reload webcal
<Seveas> @topic
<Seveas> very well, no crashing
* Mr-Petah esta Ausente, Razon: ( Volver... no s cuando, pero volver... xD (time to eat) | http://mrpetah.homelinux.net ) | Desde: ( Thursday, March 16, 2006. 19:45:35 ) Xlack v2.1
<Seveas> Mr-Petah, please turn of away messages in this channel
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> hi
<Burgwork> Seveas, there
<Seveas> what is your timezone?
<Burgwork> UTC -8 (-7 during DST)
<Seveas> what's the name of it?
<Seveas> America/...
<Burgwork> Pacific Standard Time
<Seveas> @schedule PST
<Burgwork> and Pacific Daylight Time (-7)
<Seveas> dang, PST is not the correct abbreviation
<Burgwork> what is this about?
<Seveas> just I feature of Ubugtu i just completed and want to show off ;)
<Seveas> anyway, let's try another one
<Seveas> @schedule US/Michigan
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> (local time!)
<Burgwork> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 12:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status
<Burgwork> very cool
<Seveas> quite useful I'd say
<Burgwork> @schedule US/Mountain
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 05:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 13:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 13:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 05:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 19:00: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> now just to make it not reply in public ;)
<Kinnison> well, if you had to /msg ubugtu ubuntu-meeting schedule US/Mountain
<Kinnison> that'd be better
<Kinnison> in-channel commands suck
<Seveas> true
<Burgwork> does it deal with daylight savings time?'
<Seveas> it should
<Kinnison> otherwise there'll be people saying @blarghle and nothing will be said back
<Seveas> but stub would know for sure (I'm using his pytz lib)
<Burgwork> one way to find out is to change the date on teh server temporarily
<Seveas> I'm using the fridge - ehich outputs UTC
<Seveas> (ubugtu manages the topic too)
<Seveas> @schedule Jamaic
<Seveas> @schedule Jamaica
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> very, well, works with private messages too (/msg Ubugtu schedule timezone)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-22
<khanman02> is there any logs of past ubuntu meetings?
<Seveas> check the topi
<Seveas> c
<khanman02> i swear that wasn't there before (j/k lol...)
* _^Smash^_ is Away, Reason: ( de fiesta... ) | Since: ( Thursday March 16 2006. 16:30:08 ) Xlack v2.1
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b %Qball!*@*]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by Seveas
<robitaille> @reload webcal
<robitaille> @reload topic
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
* robitaille hugs ubugtu
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Mar 13:00: Documentation Team | 22 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 12:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status
<ajmitch> robitaille: interesting, what timezone formats does it recognise?
<robitaille> I'm not sure.  I was looking at logs from the channel a few hours ago when Seveas was playing with it
<ajmitch> @schedule NZDT
<robitaille> @schedule Jamaica
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Mar 16:00: Documentation Team | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
<ajmitch> I guess not
<ajmitch> @schedule Pacific/Auckland
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Mar 10:00: Documentation Team | 23 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 24 Mar 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 29 Mar 08:00: Technical Board | 30 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 14:00: Dapper Development Status
<ajmitch> that's better
<robitaille> I wonder if it loads the fridge schedule automatically, or we have to do it manually
<Seveas> ajmitch, all official timezones
* ubijtsa prefers times to be quoted in UTC if more than one country is involved..
<ubijtsa> removes confusion over stoopid summertime as well
<Seveas> ubijtsa, that's why the topic is in UTC
<ubijtsa> yup
<ajmitch> Seveas: I was curious since I'd say that NZDT/NZST is official :)
<Seveas> it's probably not the official abbreviation
<ajmitch> it is afaik
<Seveas> @schedule NZ
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Mar 10:00: Documentation Team | 23 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 24 Mar 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 29 Mar 08:00: Technical Board | 30 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 14:00: Dapper Development Status
<ajmitch> Fri Mar 17 21:00:56 NZDT 2006
<ajmitch> 'date' gives me that
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> Pacific/Auckland
<ajmitch> that worked, I tried it earlier
<robitaille> Seveas: does your bot  check the fridge automatically, or we have to poke at it after we upgrade the calendar?
<Seveas> it updates it's meeting cache every 60 minutes
<Seveas> and every minute it checks whether the topic has to be changed
<robitaille> impressive
<Seveas> not at all
<robitaille> we have been replaced by a machine :)
<Seveas> pytz and ical libs were found online, all I had to do was glue the bits together
<ajmitch> Seveas: it seems happy to ignore my private requests
<Seveas> not for me (I just reloaded the module which went wrong the first time, you may have been just at the wrong time)
<Zerlinna> Hi there, can someone tell me if the decision about the delay of dapper has already been taken officially? 
<mvo> Zerlinna: it is
<Zerlinna> mvo: great, is there any site with an official announcement?
<juliux> Zerlinna, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
<Seveas> Zerlinna, no there is no official announcement ye
<Seveas> t
<Zerlinna> Seveas: thank you.. because in Germany everybody is already spreading that there would be!
<juliux> Seveas, see www.golem.de
<Seveas> I know - they should hurry up with the announcement
<Seveas> rumours spread insanely fast
<mvo> Zerlinna: there will be a anouncement soon 
<amu> moin junks
<Zerlinna> Seveas: so should we stop them from spreading this or just wait to the real official announcement?
<amu> & maedels :)
<Seveas> just tell them to wait
<juliux> Zerlinna, heise know that they have to wait
<juliux> but i dont know why golem dont wait
<Zerlinna> juliux: they just point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary and it is clearly indicatet that this is NOT an off. ann.
<Zerlinna> Seveas: ok so I'll send some emails
<Seveas> Zerlinna, please don't
* amu remembers to the security warning, this posting was also too fast 
<Seveas> don't link to unofficial business
<Seveas> just point them to DapperDelayMeetingSummary and tell them to wait
<Zerlinna> Seveas: that's what I wanted to do.. 
<Seveas> Zerlinna, argh
<Seveas> I misread your lines
* Seveas grabs coffee - needs to wake up
<Zerlinna> Seveas: no prob :-)
<Zerlinna> So about when can we expect the official announcement? Will it be on ubuntu.com? 
<Seveas> when it's ready and yes
<Zerlinna> Seveas: :-) ok
* amu wounders who put this news on this portal
<sivang> Seveas: what was the last meetin about?
<Seveas> development progress iirc
<Seveas> janimo, if you plan your meetings a bit more on time and notify the fridge crew, then Ubugtu can put it in the topic ;)
<janimo> Seveas: ok :)
<janimo> it may even bust attendance ;)
<Seveas> possibly
<Seveas> it will be listed on the fridge and here
<janimo> boost
<janimo> hmm we may just make it regular weekly meeting at the same hour
<janimo> we'll decide in todays meeting
<Seveas> sounds good
<janimo> 2 minutes
<Gloubiboulga> hi janimo
<janimo> hi gauvain
<nomed> hi
<nomed> soumyadip ?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: no news on netswitch yet
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, nothing new
<janimo> btw is it using /etc/n/interfaces or some custom config of its own?
<janimo> from the website it seems it aims to be like network manager 
<Gloubiboulga> it uses its own config iirc
<janimo> ah, hmm it may not be good for main after all if it does not do things the debian way
<janimo> shall we wait for soumyadip ?
<janimo> let's start then
<nomed> janimo, we wait him to discuss localisation issues
<janimo> 1) panel plugins
<nomed> yep
<Gloubiboulga> we can move the 2nd item to the end if he's late imo
<Gloubiboulga> ok, just a quick look at those plugins
<janimo> the plugins not uploaded so far are those which do not seem to work
<janimo> for all of us
<janimo> weather and diskperf are in this categpry
<Gloubiboulga> except the clipman plugin
<janimo> the rest are not yet ported
<janimo> I uploaded clipman today :)
<Gloubiboulga> ok :)
<janimo> dii not update the wiki though
<Gloubiboulga> xkb is ready, I can package it quickly
<nomed> janimo, Gloubiboulga it's strange that weather works fine here
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: cool I just wanted to ask you about it
<nomed> was it in breezy ?
<janimo> nomed: yes
<janimo> it wass buggy though
<Gloubiboulga> for all the not-yet-ported plugins, the author are working on them
<janimo> I could not change kb layout using it
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: great
<Gloubiboulga> except lua plugin
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: that's irrelevamt to most users
<janimo> too techincal
<janimo> so not a priority
<Gloubiboulga> ok, so we can just forget it I guess
<janimo> right, or package it if it gets ported
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> prioroty is weather/dsikperf/xkb
<janimo> especially xkb for localisation 
<janimo> screenshot plugin seems not to be a good idea as upstream said
<Gloubiboulga> xkb will soon be packaged :)
<janimo> so I may juts make it an executable
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: I know, I just wanted to stress that it's the most important plugin issing right now IMO
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: I loooked in goodies svn two days ago and saw nothing
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<janimo> so assumed xkb is no worked on
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, the author emailed me this morning that it's ready
<janimo> great
<janimo> anything else to add for plugins?
<janimo> if not 3) archiver
<Gloubiboulga> we should remove datetime and xfce4-toys from the archives imo
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: datetime is replaced too?
<nomed> and add a meta pkge ?
<janimo> with toys I agree it is just not easy to remove from the arch
<nomed> with all the working plugins ?
<janimo> busy admins
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, datetime is not working iirc, and there are similar plugins with the panel
<janimo> nomed, lets' wait till it's clear which plugins make it to dapper
<nomed> k
<janimo> I add the plugins one by one to xubunt-desktop so we know explictely what is tested and deemd ok for default install
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok, there are some other xfce pkgs which need purging from the arch will need to ask for all of them in the same time
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<janimo> the old 4.2 plugins + toys
<janimo> old xfprint xfdesktop if they are still there, xterminal
<janimo> old package names which we used in hoary
<janimo> 3)archiver
<nomed> ok
<nomed> the devel is working actively on it during these days
<nomed> the release 0.4 will be just when iso support will be fixed
<nomed> in the mean time i asked him to use a version control
<janimo> you mention thunar plugin for 0.4 to in the wiki
<janimo> is that so?
<nomed> he's happy with bzr at the end
<nomed> yep
<janimo> good
<janimo> so will he take care of integrating the plugin? I did not look at it
<nomed> he'll add an --extract opt
<nomed> and he will work on thunar plugin then
<janimo> oh but we do the thunar bits right?
<janimo> ok
<nomed> then ..
<nomed> i think we should pkge it from bzr
<nomed> help him on solving issues
<janimo> ok
<janimo> I agree
<nomed> then 0.4 should be ready for dapper
<janimo> we still have to test if it is stable, does not eat data
<janimo> and this kind of stuff
<nomed> janimo, he sent me new two patches
<janimo> since it is a potentially destructive app 
<nomed> now it should be mostly bug free
<janimo> nomed, let's wait for bzr if he promised Monday
<nomed> the known bugs are gone
<janimo> which were they btw?
<nomed> i'll have a gmail chat session with him
<nomed> i'll help him on that
<nomed> i'll mail you when ready
<janimo> ok
<janimo>  I just noticed the png not found warnig at start
<nomed> janimo, adding files to an archive
<nomed> for the 2 3 times
<nomed> had some issues
<nomed> not anymore
<Gloubiboulga> janimo, netswitch author has just confirmed, he doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces
<janimo> hmm, it would have been better if he released now so we can test and then fix the iso handling :)
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<janimo> hmm, I would have preferred to be an equivalent of gnome-net-setting without gnome libs instead of a whole new
<nomed> janimo, k i'll ask for it
<janimo> incompatible way :)
<nomed> i think a 0.3.1 or something like that should be a problem for hi
<nomed> m
<janimo> 0.3.1 is the last AFAIK
<janimo> 4) Dapper Look
<janimo> our weak point ;)
<nomed> hehehe
<janimo> it's good we have 6 more weeks
<nomed> the dapper-look chan is not really active
<nomed> anymore
<janimo> to wait for soemone to do the artwork :)
<nomed> but that guy told me he had something ready
<janimo> maybe even upstream releases 4.4 by then
<nomed> i was not on irc during the week end
<nomed> i hope to meet him soon
<janimo> but once we have ISOs I think there's going to be more contributions in this area for sure
<janimo> which leads us to 5)
<janimo> ISO images
<Gloubiboulga> is there something scheduled for this ?
<janimo> they are approved but still blocked
<janimo> appreved to be supported by canonical so they can go to main
<nomed> janimo, we should have it soon
<janimo> which is what I thogh was the case so far but was not apparently
<nomed> i think we should fix something in capser for xubuntu
<nomed> casper
<janimo> so we need the pakcages in main than they can build CD-s there are more people doing that now besides Colin Watson
<janimo> nomed: what?
<nomed> janimo, will xubuntu have even a livecd ?
<janimo> nomed, I sure hope so
<janimo> and an espresso installer
<nomed> it's possible we should fix something on them
<nomed> casper and espresso
<janimo> what exaclty ?do you know something specific or wondering
<janimo> espresso shoulf be gtk only
<nomed> i've seen casper has some scripts for gnome stuff ..
<nomed> i need to take a deeper look on that ..
<nomed> but there are gnome specific scripts
<janimo> I hope it just looks ate the livecd seed and does the right thing
<nomed> and maybe xfce needs some too
<janimo> since it works for kde I think it's not gnome dependent
<janimo> as soon as we start doing install cd-s I'll take a closer look to the live seeds
<janimo> I did not pay much attention to them
<janimo> only to the desktop seed
<Riddell> the gtk side of espresso does stuff with turning off gconf, but nothing very gnome specific
<janimo> Riddell: thanks
<nomed> i've seen it but i didn't check the code very well ..
<janimo> anyway since that is the livecd it may even use some small gnome bits as long as it does not install them ;)
<janimo> so the conclusion is flightX will be available but I cannot estimate when
<nomed> janimo, i was thinking on configuration stuff
<janimo> since it depends on when packages will be put in main
<janimo> nomed, yes/
<janimo> ?
<nomed> janimo, i'll take a deeper look on that during the week end and i'll be more specific 
<janimo> nomed, unrelated: if you like pyxfce you may want to package the bindings
<janimo> also the pyexo stuff
<nomed> janimo, yep it would be cool ..
<janimo> that would sit well with the whole ubuntu line ;)
<nomed> but maybe for dapper +1 ?
<janimo> nomed, sure
<janimo> shouildn't be hard though
<janimo> just a small matter of packaging ;)
<nomed> yep
* janimo remembers some very frustrating times with such 'small matters of packaging'
<nomed> ehehe 
<janimo> anything else?
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<janimo> besides 6) future meetings
<nomed> i having that time
<nomed> friday is fine for me
<janimo> ok I think we could have a fixed weekly schedule for future meetings
<nomed> i agree
<Gloubiboulga> yep, I agree too
<janimo> Friday may not be good for some people
<janimo> we should chose a day we have small chances to overlap with other meetings
<janimo> edubuntu has their every Wed 
<janimo> any prefs regarding day/hour?
<janimo> what to exclude?
<nomed> i have no problems if i know that in time
<Gloubiboulga> same for me
<janimo> even during the day? 12-16utc) ?
<Gloubiboulga> except tuesday 13-17 UTC and friday before 15 UTC 
<janimo> Ok let;s have them on Wed 14 UTC
<janimo> an hour after edubuntu
<janimo> if we show up next time we can keep the same schedule from now on
<nomed> ok
<Gloubiboulga> fine with me
<ogra> janimo, talk to the a11y team
<janimo> ogra: they have fixed schdule too?
<ogra> they usually have theirs after ours, but no fixed schedule
<janimo> hmm soon ubuntu-meeting wil need a scheduler
<janimo> ogra, thanks for th eheadsup
<ogra> Seveas is working on it ;)
<janimo> ogra, do otrher teams have their fixed days?
<Seveas> janimo, poke the fridge team with your schedule and Ubugtu will know it
<Seveas> (ogra: no it's finished so I'm no longer working on it ;))
<ogra> janimo, most have ...
<janimo> Seveas,we thought we may have a somewhat fixed schedule 
<nomed> janimo, Gloubiboulga soumyadip is here
<janimo> so we dont; forget poking each week :)
<nomed> 2. Localisation Issues <--
<janimo> soumyadip: hi, we'll talk about scim in  a few minutes
<ogra> Seveas, nah, thats only the first step ... calendaring isnt a full scheduling solution yet ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hi soumyadip 
<soumyadip> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
<janimo> lets' try nex Wed at 14 utc and if it conflicts we postpone it to Thu
<janimo> soumyadip: let's talk about scim & co
<soumyadip> janimo, right
<janimo> do you have a list of packages which we need in xubuntu so they provide out of the box functionality for indic langs
<janimo> the one you sent to th elist is that?
<soumyadip> no that was for scim
<soumyadip> IIRC
* soumyadip checking
<janimo> yes
<janimo> what else is needed
<janimo> I know next to 0 about this subject :(
<soumyadip> we also need the ttf-indic-fonts metapackage, that pulls in all the individual font packages
<soumyadip> we need to look into a couple of aspell packages
<janimo> what is the status of ubuntu/kubuntu re this subject
<janimo> is this the frentic work in progress at the l10n sprint ?
<G0SUB> janimo: much more than that ...
<soumyadip> janimo, nah, most of the packages are already in Ubuntu
<soumyadip> janimo, we are currently trying to fix a rendering problem on OO2
<janimo> GOSUB, I hope the sprint is much more than that not that we need much more than the sprinters are working on
<soumyadip> janimo, well we did solve a rendering issue with firefox
<janimo> soumyadip: OO2 does not directly concern xubuntu
<soumyadip> ah yes
<janimo> soumyadip: so we need to pick the packages which gnome/ubuntu installs for indic languiages and we;re fine?
<soumyadip> janimo, you asked about the frenetic work :)
<soumyadip> yup
<janimo> soumyadip: ah, ok :)
<soumyadip> janimo, apart form one small thing about the locales
<janimo> translations for xfce apps?
<janimo> I think we'll add language chooser
<soumyadip> janimo, well translations are conducted by individual language teams
<soumyadip> janimo, great
<janimo> when xubuntu packages go to main, the plan is (was) to add them to langpack-base
<soumyadip> janimo, since the language teams work autonomously, not all languages are translated completely
<G0SUB> soumyadip: is XFCE in Rosetta yet?
<soumyadip> G0SUB, no
<janimo> since they are relatively small
<soumyadip> janimo, ok
<G0SUB> better get those in then
<soumyadip> janimo, I started work on some translations
<janimo> not in rosetta bc the policy is AIUI do not put stuff in rosetta if upstream does not use rosetta
<soumyadip> G0SUB, that is not for me to decide
<janimo> and xfce is not using it
<janimo> soumyadip: great, are you coordinating with xfce i18n
<janimo> although if dapper got imported in rosetta may mean that we can use it for packages indep of upstream
<janimo> I am not sure
<soumyadip> janimo, no, I'm currently translating .po files and sending them over to Runa Bhattacharya, who is the contact for Bengali i18n
<janimo> soumyadip: apps in general you mean not just xfce?
<soumyadip> janimo, no XFCE specific
<soumyadip> I started work on thunar
<janimo> and Runa sends to xfce then?
<soumyadip> janimo, correct
<janimo> soumyadip: great
<janimo> so input methods, fonts , aspell and language packs
<soumyadip> well the bengali translation team is divided between India and Bangladesh, so importing into rosetta would be beneficial for Bengali at least as people from both countries could work collaboratively
<janimo> of these only input methods is trickier than the latin locales right?
<soumyadip> janimo, does XFCE concern itself with hunspell ? there are hunspell dictionaries too
<soumyadip> janimo, yup
<soumyadip> janimo, all of them are covered by scim-tables-additional
<janimo> soumyadip: they don;t have any app that uses a spell checker afaik
<soumyadip> janimo,  ok
<janimo> is abiword covered?
<Seveas> ogra, true, but this channel is not nearly full enough to need a complete scheduler
<soumyadip> janimo, Indic rendering in Abiword is hopelessly broken
<janimo> upstream problem?
<soumyadip> janimo, yup
<janimo> So I guess OO will be used even with xubuntu?
<soumyadip> if the user so decides
<janimo> well if rendering is broken and user wants indic rendering :)
<soumyadip> exactly
<janimo> OT: how is koffice in this regard
<Riddell> janimo: which?
<janimo> indic rendering
<Riddell> same as all the rest of KDE
<janimo> meaning ? :)
<Riddell> I've not heard any complains apart from Kate, so I assume it works
<soumyadip> janimo, well I personally haven'ty tested KDE at all
<janimo> Riddell: why don;t you ship koffice instead of oo?
<janimo> soumyadip: ok, I was just curios if oo had some advantages afetr all
<janimo> anything else to discuss?
<Riddell> janimo: koffice lacks a number of features, kword isn't perfectly WYSIWYG, koffice 1.4.0 was quite unstable and their MS import filters are not as good as openoffice (except kspread) and export filters are non-existant
<janimo> so meeting next week Wed 14UTC 
<janimo> Seveas, can you put it on the fridge ^
<janimo> thanks
<Riddell> we do ship krita on the CD from koffice
<janimo> Riddell: thanks
<soumyadip> janimo, ok, I'll play around to see if there are any more issues
<janimo> ok thanks everyone we meet next Wed
<nomed> cu next Wed
<nomed> janimo, one question ...
<Gloubiboulga> cu
<G0SUB> Gloubiboulga: :)
<janimo> nomed: sure
<Gloubiboulga> hey G0SUB :)
<Seveas> janimo, I'm no fridge person, poke fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<nomed> wouldn't it be possible to have an xubuntu cd using the pkge that are already in main ?
<janimo> Seveas: aha I thought you were
<janimo> nomed: only gnome/lde are in main :)
<janimo> that's why we dont; have a CD yet
<nomed> and just for xubuntu team ?
<nomed> ubuntu has already released 5 cds ..
<nomed> i hope we'll not have too much issues on xubuntu cds :/
<janimo> you mean a cd with packages in universe then?
<nomed> yes
<janimo> nomed, I hope so too
<janimo> but I don;t want to start building and uploading CDs myself
<janimo> since it needs bandwidth a lot of time
<nomed> i undesrtand
<janimo> and mostly skillz :)
<janimo> which I am not sure is the best time for me to start learning now
<janimo> especially since the CD;s should be done any day now (TM)
<nomed> ok
<janimo> but I'll ask Colin again
<nomed> so cu next Wed :)
<nomed> ciao
<ruy> hi
<Zerlinna> hi there, is it _really_ sure that there is no official announcement of the delay of Dapper yet? - Because ubuntuusers.de (& also heise.de)  have already post that on their site.
<Zerlinna> ping Seveas
<Seveas> Zerlinna, there is no official announcement yet
<natroll-> gonna wait till the 19th?
<Zerlinna> Seveas: ok thank you! I just needed to be really sure
* Burgwork is Corey Burger, in and out
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Documentation Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<mdke> who's around?
<LaserJock> I am
* manicka nods
<mdke> cool
<mdke> shall we get straight into it?
<trappist> let's do, this is the only thing keeping me from going home :)
<mdke> agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<mdke> first up, Author attribution - proposal is to have the author of every document as the Documentation Team, with the team email address. Individual contributors can then be listed in the <legalnotice> tag.
<mdke> we've already discussed this briefly in the chan
<mdke> anyone have any clarifications/questions/worries?
<LaserJock> ok, so where exactly are we setting this?
<LaserJock> in bookinfo.xml or the omf file?
<mdke> in each document, wherever it is relevant
<mdke> it's in the <bookinfo> tag yeah, but that may not always be a separate file
<Burgwork> works for me
<trappist> I'm not sure I like it - I think that info is less useful than an actual author's name
<mdke> to my mind, the ideal example is this: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml
<trappist> but I haven't really thought it through
<trappist> what's the argument for it?
<mdke> trappist, i think docs look better when they come from a team, rather than individuals.
<Burgwork> we have a single contact, the doc team
<mdke> and it's better for contact details, as Burg says
<Burgwork> because as some of us have seen, sometimes teams are revolving doors, while the team is constant
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, but what about the omf files. They have <creator>, <maintainer>, and <contributor> tages?
<trappist> that does make sense
<mdke> LaserJock, i would say creator+maintainer = team, and contributor = individuals
<mdke> not sure
<LaserJock> the only thing I would like to have is some separation a far as what doc team members are "in charge" of each doc
<mdke> LaserJock, yes, that's why I like the way you've done it in the packaging guide bookinfo
<LaserJock> I agree ;-)
<LaserJock> but I think I need to change the omf file
<mdke> yes
<mdke> hi jjesse 
<jjesse> hello
<mdke> jjesse, we're on item 1
<jjesse> ok, grabing the agenda
<jjesse> any decision made on that?
<trappist> so author=team, maintainer=maintainer and contributors=a list?
<mdke> jjesse, the general feeling is pro, what are your views?
<mdke> trappist, precisely
<jjesse> i have no problem with it
<trappist> mdke: as opposed to author/maintainer=team
<jjesse> for example in the release notes i included some authors in the list but missed some and was asked about it
<jjesse> i like trappist idea author=team maint. = maintainer
<manicka> a contributor list should be more than enough
<mdke> trappist, yes. in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml you'd have the maintainers and contributors in the <legalnotice> tag, and the author (docteam) in the <authorgroup> tag
<trappist> I don't see a maintainer - as in, who's "in charge of" that particular doc
<mdke> trappist, right, that would be added to that file
<trappist> which is useful info, at least for me
<trappist> gotcha
<jjesse> confused a little
<jjesse> maintainer would be the person "in charge" of that doc, like laserjock for kubuntu destkop guide
<mdke> a bit like this: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/bookinfo.xml except maybe the maintainer list could be separate from the contributors
<jjesse> ?
<trappist> in that case, +1 to the proposal as I understand it
<mdke> jjesse, sure, except its robotgeek :)
<jjesse> grin i never keep it straight
* mdke inserts an apostrophe in "its" before trappist sees
* trappist puts away his apostrophe-shaped cluebat
<mdke> ok, everyone seems in favour
<mdke> any more comments?
<jjesse> so for the docs we have to redo and add a bookinfo.xml file?
<jjesse> cause i know releasenotes and about kubuntu don't have them
<mdke> jjesse, no no. You can do it all in one file too
<mdke> jjesse, it's in the <bookinfo> tag in release-notes.xml and about-kubuntu.xml
<jjesse> ah sorry, brain is fried from a long work week
<mdke> i know the feeling :/
<mdke> all clear?
<jjesse> yes
<LaserJock> I think so
<mdke> LaserJock, go ahead if it's not
<LaserJock> mdke: so the packaging guide is ok? I just need to adjust the omf file
<mdke> LaserJock, you should adjust the list in bookinfo.xml so that it is clear you are the maintainer. Maybe even split the list into two lists
<mdke> IMO
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, maybe you should send a sample (template) to the list so everybody can see
<mdke> ok
<mdke> it's two lists already actually
<LaserJock> I just split it into "doc team members" and "contributors"
<mdke> LaserJock, something like this: http://pastebin.com/608084
<mdke> except without the grammatical errors
<LaserJock> that looks good to me
<mdke> note: I've also changed the authorgroup to use the entity, but that is trivial
<LaserJock> and then in the omf I would have author == doc project and maintainer == laserjock
<mdke> creator == doc project, I suppose. there isn't an "author"
<trappist> that does make more sense
<LaserJock> there isn't?
<LaserJock> doh, there isn't
<LaserJock> ok, I'm all good
<mdke> great
<mdke> next item:  Internal doc freeze dates? What/when are we giving docs to translators? 
<mdke> we haven't heard back from the TB about the doc freeze yet
<jjesse> remember that this will be the first time that kubuntu docs will be included in rosetta
<LaserJock> ok, so I was talking with Keybuk in -devel about the doc freeze
<mdke> me too
<mdke> he seemed happy but said to wait for the rest of the TB
<LaserJock> he thought the present scheme on wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule was good
<mdke> erm
<mdke> that is kinda the opposite of what we've been saying on the thread on the mailing list
<mdke> it is a 6 week delay
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> that is my point
<jjesse> i thought on the mailing list we talked about a 2 week delay for the docs
<mdke> when I spoke to him today he was happy about amending that to 2 weeks
<LaserJock> mdke: ok, I talked to him yesterday I think
<LaserJock> he must have changed his mind ;-)
<mdke> LaserJock, I'm pushier than you :)
<mdke> I'm really against a 6 week delay
<LaserJock> well, the point he brought up was that UI Freeze was also pushed 6 weeks
<mdke> those poor translations are gonna have like 10 times the strings they had for breezy, and even then it wasn't enough time
<LaserJock> so we will freeze before UI Freeze
<mdke> I don't have a problem with that, as I said in my email. what do others think?
<trappist> I don't have my head around what needs to be done or how much time we *need*, so I don't really have an opinion.
<LaserJock> Corey didn't think that the UI freeze would affect much and I tend to agree. I think the changes should be pretty small
<LaserJock> but I'm not writing a doc heavily using the UI ;-)
<mdke> I agree too. I think that any changes can be sorted out by us changing and notifying the translator list
<mdke> but I'm still keen on freezing early formally, rather than informally
<LaserJock> agreed, so +2 weeks on all docs?
<mdke> can the packaging guide handle it?
<LaserJock> I sure hope so
<mdke> heh
<LaserJock> 2 extra weeks will good
<LaserJock> It might not have as much polish as the rest of the docs
<trappist> I can polish
<mdke> any more thoughts on this? votes +1 or -1 for 2 weeks (subject to TB approval):
<LaserJock> +1
<trappist> +1
<mdke> +1
<mdke> Burgwork, jjesse, mgalvin, manicka ^
<manicka> +1
<Burgwork> +1
* Burgwork has no idea what he just voted for
<mdke> lol
<mdke> Burgwork, 2 week extension on the freeze, rather than 6
<Burgwork> sounds good
<mgalvin> +1
<LaserJock> my biggest concern with the packaging guide is that it won't have much developer review, but I think I'll have to wait for Dapper+1 for that
<mdke> ok, that brings us onto the next one
<mdke> Current doc status. Where are we at with each doc?
<mdke> go LaserJock 
<LaserJock> umm, well, uhhh
<LaserJock> I'm getting there
<LaserJock> I'm pretty happy with the introduction and getting started chapters
<LaserJock> I think trappist could work his magic there
<mdke> so, packaging guide and server guide would appear to be good targets for trappist and other like minded magic-workers
<mdke> the desktop guide is looking good, I think. How about kubuntu stuff? <-- jjesse
<LaserJock> I was supposed to get help from other MOTUs etc. but that hasn't shown up. I think I'll have to brute force it :(
<trappist> I've already been busy on serverguide.  I can make time for packaging guide once LaserJock's got it stable.
<mdke> trappist, any idea which chapters are missing from serverguide? it's nearly there, right?
<LaserJock> ok, so I wanted to bring up status reports in relation to this
<trappist> yeah, it is.  some network-config stuff, a lot of email stuff and maybe some firewall stuff still needs work iirc
<mdke> LaserJock, what's on your mind?
<trappist> oh and wireless.
<LaserJock> ok, I think all the docs should have status reports, and we should be using them for this stuff
<trappist> I totally agree.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure exactly what I need to do that
<mdke> LaserJock, we've been getting better at status reports recently. they are generally up to date, I think. BUT there is one major problem
<trappist> the serverguide has one that seems pretty up to date and it's been very useful to me, looking for stuff to work on
<mdke> if you take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/sg-report.html, you'll see that far too many sections have tags
<mdke> even the really minor sub-sub-sub sections have them
<mdke> which is really confusing
<LaserJock> I agree
<trappist> mdke: what about a tree-view status report, then?
<mdke> we could write up a wiki page about status tags
<mdke> trappist, that would rock. no idea how to do it
<trappist> how are these status reports generated?
<mdke> trappist, in the Makefile, in a similar way to the html previews
<trappist> I'll look into that and see if I can make it happen
<LaserJock> ok, so looking at the Projects wiki, I don't see links to many of the Kubuntu doc status reports or the packaging guide and style guide
<mdke> I would tend to prioritise that quite low
<mdke> maybe even dapper+1, if we only have 3 weeks left
<trappist> yeah
<LaserJock> mdke: so do I need to tweak the Makefile to generate a status report?
<mdke> LaserJock, you may have to add an entry for the packaging guide yeah
<LaserJock> ok
<mdke> LaserJock, and you'll need status tags in the doc, if you haven't got them already
<LaserJock> I've got 1 so far for trappist ;-)
<LaserJock> but I'll go through and add the rest
<mdke> cool
<mdke> the various tags are at the bottom of the Projects wiki page
<LaserJock> ok, so I guess I'll put "review" when I'm ready for some word nazi action?
<mdke> that's it
<LaserJock> k, I'll get it done ASAP
<mdke> okies. next issue
<mdke>  Screenshots? How many and for what docs? How will the UI Freeze affect them?
<LaserJock> ok, so that was for Madpilot kinda
<LaserJock> I noticed there was some discussion about including screenshots in the user guides
* mdke nods
<mdke> placeholders need to be in before string freeze, but they can be taken/updated after that, if things change before UI Freeze.
<LaserJock> yeah, and they wouldn't be translated ...
<trappist> I think nobody should be taking screenshots until after the ui freeze
<LaserJock> should we make a list of screenshots we need for each doc? maybe on a wiki?
<trappist> so there won't be any wasted effort, and we should have time then, due to the string freeze
<mdke> LaserJock, they should just be inserted into the document, in my opinion. then they can be taken later, as trappist says
<LaserJock> I was just thinking that the authors could put up a list of screenshots (that need to be done) for each doc and then people could attach them. It might go a little faster that way
<LaserJock> just a thought
* LaserJock notes the silence. Must have been a grand though ;-)
<LaserJock> thought
<mdke> it might work. But making a list of screenshots is not a lot slower than adding placeholders into the doc directly
<mdke> slower/faster *
<LaserJock> mdke: I mean after the placeholders are in
<trappist> mdke: but looking at a list is faster than looking for placeholders
<mdke> ah sure
<mdke> yes, agreed
<mdke> we should have plenty of time to do that after the strings are frozen, as trappist says
<LaserJock> I was thinking that way that the author could solicit screenshots ;-)
<mdke> yeah, good plan, my bad
<LaserJock> ok, so we use placeholders until after the UI Freeze, right?
<mdke> that's right
<LaserJock> ok, next item?
<mdke>  Do we have any prioritization of wiki pages (cleanup) that should be done before Dapper is released?
<mdke> Burgwork, good item for you if you're around
<LaserJock> I was just thinking that maybe some wiki pages need to be prioritized for the release
<trappist> do we even have an unprioritized list?
<mdke> trappist, CategoryCleanup
<LaserJock> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo maybe
<trappist> holy crap that's a lot of wikis
<trappist> how does stuff get onto/off of that list?
<LaserJock> you fix it ;-)
<trappist> I can get on that
<LaserJock> at the bottom of the page is usually the list of categories a page belongs to
<mdke> yeah, just delete the reference to CategoryCleanup once it's clean :)
<trappist> got it.
<mdke> trappist, for future word-nazi-ing reference, you call them "wiki pages" rather than "wikis"
<trappist> check.
<mdke> "This wiki page is a guide to etc"
<LaserJock> anyway, I could be totally wrong, but I thought that maybe we need to make sure that all the most important wiki pages are ready for dapper
<Burgwork> we are looking for a list of priority pages?
<trappist> I dunno if I can maintain a 10-a-day pace until release, so yeah I guess prioritization will be helpful
<mdke> but LaserJock's item is a valid one
<Burgwork> BinaryDriverHowto is badly in need of a rewrite
<mdke> a number of things will need updating for dapper
<mdke> codecs have changed packages etc
<Burgwork> we need to decide what to do with DVD support in Dapper
<LaserJock> arggh
<mdke> heh
<mdke> that is rather waiting on upstream tbh
* mgalvin has to run, will catch the log later
<Burgwork> dvd support has not been ported to gstreamer0.10
<mgalvin> later guys
<mdke> Burgwork, it's been ported, but some features are missing
<Burgwork> ugh
<mdke> menus, subtitles are missing
<Burgwork> all I know is there is not a package yet available. I call that not ported
<mdke> apparently there is a chance of it getting fixed for dapper, but only a chance
<mdke> I was led to believe there is a package
<LaserJock> I think so
<Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PageHits <-- this is a good guideline for figuring out what needs to be done
<mdke> good point
<LaserJock> nice
<trappist> great link
<Burgwork> I will create a subpage of WikiTodo called CheckedForDapper and list some that need to be checked
<Burgwork> once someone has checked a page, sign off on it on that page
<mdke> maybe even a category?
<Burgwork> page is easier, we don't need extra categories, IMHO
<mdke> alright, if you don't mind doing the list
<Burgwork> I will do it tonight
<LaserJock> way cool
<mdke> cool
<LaserJock> ok, so I just wanted to briefly mention that I was able to get the Ubuntu docs to register with doc-base
<mdke> yay
<LaserJock> but I haven't done the Kubuntu docs yet
<LaserJock> it looks like they should be easier
<mdke> yep, they are all under /usr/share/doc/kde/en/HTML/kubuntu
<mdke> will be hell to localise, stupid kde
<LaserJock> so I just have to add the proper control files and tweak the packaging
<LaserJock> and then build a test kubuntu-docs package
<LaserJock> man they take a long time to build
<mdke> do you want a user account on our server?
<mdke> the builds are fast
<mdke> in fact they should be fast on any reasonable computer
<LaserJock> perhaps that might be useful
<mdke> ok
<LaserJock> what every you want. If I could use my dual core iMac maybe it would be faster ;-)
<mdke> heh
<mdke> any other business, can we wrap things up?
<trappist> I got nothin
<dsas> quick question: I take it that will there be a meeting after dapper release to discuss the next cycle?
<LaserJock> many, many meetings ;-)
<dsas> sounds fun ;)
<mdke> yeah
* trappist &
<mdke> me too
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-23
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<i3gaim> testes
<i3gaim> kkk
<robitaille> @reload weblink
<robitaille> @topic
<robitaille> humm... Ubugtu is gone....
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<robitaille> Seveas: what happened to your bot?
<Seveas> it disconnected
<highvoltage> poor bot.
<Seveas> Have to fix the bugzilla plugin before I can restart it 
<robitaille> I miss the bot...I even had to change the topic by myself last night.  Poor me... :)
<Seveas> hehe
<Seveas> eweka (where he's hosted) had an exploding router oslt
<Seveas> and I was in the middle of reworking pieces of the bugtracker plugin
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu meeting | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> robitaille, --^
<robitaille> Thanks!
<Seveas> robitaille, please change meeting to Meeting on the fridge (xubuntu meeting)
<Seveas> (Ubugtu filters out Meeting)
<robitaille> done
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status
<Seveas> (@topic forces cache refresh, otherwise cache is refreshed once per hour)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-25
<Seveas> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 06:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 12:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status
<BlueDevil> @schedule EU/EET
<Seveas> BlueDevil, try Europe/Somecity (see the notice Ubugtu sent)
<BlueDevil> @schedule Etc/GMT+2
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 10:00: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 12:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 18:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 10:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 00:00: Dapper Development Status
<MarioMeyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 09:00: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 11:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 17:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 17:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 09:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Dapper Development Status
<siretart> @schedule Berlin
<siretart> @schedule Europe/Berlin
<Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 15:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-03-26
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Spec> i'll try to be back here in ~30 minutes, i have to go somewhere though. :-/
<YukiCuss> Ping.
<Spec> flint: hello
<flint> Spec, good morning from the Frozen North....
<YukiCuss> flint, Spec, the hot down-under here?
<Seveas> Spec, YukiCuss: good to see you around - there's at least 2 points from the agenda that can be handled
<Seveas> I'm afraid it was too short notice for a few others
<jsgotangco> ahh .au team
<YukiCuss> :)
<flint> Seveas, based upon the current situation, I would wonder who is here from Media? :^)  I am just here to get Nick Wheeler as a MOTU
<Seveas> flint, today no one is appointed MOTU - it's all about membership
<jsgotangco> that's TB
<Seveas> Kamion, elmo, mako - ping
<Seveas> 16:03 UTC here
<Spec> flint: membership first
<flint> Seveas, that is not what was said two weeks ago.  can you send the agenda url to the screen?
<Seveas> wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<YukiCuss> flint, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda ?
<flint> Seveas, thanks.
<Seveas> flint, you need to be a member before you can become a MOTU - for membership a cheerleading squad from the community is needed
<flint> YukiCuss, thanks even more :^)
<Seveas> for becoming motu you need other motus to vouch for you
<flint> Seveas, I represent the cheerleading squad.  I am not interested in being a member of anything.
<Seveas> flint, ok, put on your dress and start dancing around 
<flint> I was drafted into being the first DC LOCO
<Spec> flint's my cheerleader? dear lord...
<jsgotangco> what happened?
<flint> Seveas, my dancing is kinda like watching the Hindenburg land at Lakehurst NJ... 
<Seveas> flint, that's way better than mine so go for it 
<Seveas> anyway - the idle times of the CC members aren't promising...
<jsgotangco> there's one
<Seveas> hi mark!
<sabdfl> hi folks
<YukiCuss> sabdfl! :)
<sabdfl> sorry to be late
<jsgotangco> 2 mor
<jsgotangco> e
<Seveas> you're the first one here for a change 
<jsgotangco> sabdfl: actually you're not late
<flint> sabdfl, Hey Mark!
<sabdfl> flint! long time no see
<sabdfl> CC meting due now?
<Seveas> yes
<flint> sabdfl, trying to stay out of trouble... :^)
<sabdfl> meeting, that is
<Seveas> kamion/mako/elmo not in sight
<sabdfl> flint: you and me both
<jsgotangco> we seem to have low attendance today
<sabdfl> ok, have pinged the guys, will sms kamion and elmo too, sec
<elmo> I'm here
<Seveas> hi elmo!
<flint> sabdfl, if you want I can go wake up mdz :^) ...nah...
<neuralis> i can sms mako, if need be.
<Seveas> flint, mdz isn't on the CC ;)
<ogra> flint, hey, youre here to work, not for your hobbies :)
<flint> ogra, lol
<flint> ogra, waking mdz is a religious experience!
<highvoltage> flint: what is this about? :) wiki.ubuntu.com/gins
<jsgotangco> gins?
<flint> highvoltage, changed the name to wiki.ubuntu.com/gin like the drink mostly...
<jsgotangco> heh
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<Spec> links2 doesn't support ssl :-/
<sabdfl> vidya was asking earlier about recognition for hte Ubuntu Women's team
<mdz> flint: you are a menace to sleep
<sabdfl> elmo: are you happy to start without Kamion and mako, and then we can ask them to +1 / -1 member candidates based on the log and email?
<elmo> sabdfl: sure, if you want
<sabdfl> ok, lets do that
<Amaranth> kamion said something about picking someone up from school
<sabdfl> morning mdz
<sabdfl> locoteams!
<flint> gin is gnome instant nationalizaiton, a command line tool to change languages.
<flint> they need it in edubuntu classrooms.... not a big deal... 
<flint> talked to olli about it and he seemd to be ok with it.
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: ping
<flint> later refactor in python and hook it to a gui if you want.
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, hello! :)
<jsgotangco> flint: shhh
<sabdfl> tell us about ubuntu down under
<flint> mdz damn, good morning!!! 
<YukiCuss> We're just starting up work, more or less, but so far it's looking very promising.
<Seveas> gotta love random disconnects...
<Seveas> did I miss anything?
<Amaranth> i don't think so
<mdz> flint: I've been up since 0600, but damn you anyway
<YukiCuss> We've had our first meeting (just today), and we've got a roadmap organised (more or less) for how we're going to tackle various projects around here.
<sabdfl> Seveas: just getting started
<Seveas> thanks
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: where's here?
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, here is Australia. :)
<jsgotangco> that's a big place
<jsgotangco> heh
<YukiCuss> We've got members all along the east coast so far.
<YukiCuss> And we're hoping that we can find some more elsewhere.
<elmo> (Kamion is on his way)
<Seveas> YukiCuss, cool, what are you focussing on as team?
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: nice wiki page, wide spread of members across the country
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: are you all setup w.r.t. virtual server if you want it?
<YukiCuss> Seveas, at the moment we're looking at the three major groups; home users, business, and school.
<Kamion> hi, sorry I'm late, was picking the child up from school and had to run an errand in the meantime
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, yep, we've got that pretty much organised, just letting the delay of email take its toll :)
<sabdfl> Kamion: no worries, mate
<sabdfl> g'day
<sabdfl> ok, YukiCuss, are you the group leader, have you had any process to confirm that internally?
<Kamion> sigh
<YukiCuss> Particularly we're inspecting schools; demonstrations of how Ubuntu can be used inside a school, and also FOSS.
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, I am the group leader, and it's been confirmed that I'm the team contact at a meeting.
<YukiCuss> We had our first one today, it worked out well. :)
<Seveas> YukiCuss, do you promote edubuntu too?
<ogra> YukiCuss, you should get in contact with the edubuntu community :)
<sabdfl> it's nice for the CC to have a primary contact for a loco team - so that's great
<sabdfl> anything you'd like from the CC?
<YukiCuss> Seveas, ogra, of course.
<jsgotangco> increase the sheilas!
<jsgotangco> =)
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, at the moment, we're hoping that we can get some form of priority with ShipIt; we'd like to be able to get Dapper out here as quickly as we can, before the rush.
<sabdfl> jerome, you suggesting we have sufficient sheep?
<YukiCuss> (rush of downloads begins, that is; I think the convenience of a real CD will overwhelm them :))
<YukiCuss> Other than that, we're going to keep self-regulating (meeting every fortnight has been agreed on and seems to be convenient), and see how we can let our projects take off.
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: local production an distribution depends on having a company locally that can do it well at great prices, if you have nominations, the right person to ping is hmb
<sabdfl> on freenode
<sabdfl> hande@canonical.com
<YukiCuss> Thanks!
<sabdfl> YukiCuss: we've yet to find a regional company that can do it cost effectively, but would love to get it working well
<YukiCuss> sabdfl, we've got a few people who are very interested in doing local mailouts.
<Seveas> YukiCuss, local mailouts rock
<sabdfl> we can probably do high priority shipment after release if you have a specific function or requirement
<Seveas> it's quite popular here in NL too
<sabdfl> anyway, thank you for checking in, and thanks for setting up the team
<YukiCuss> No problems! ^^
<YukiCuss> Thank you.
<Seveas> YukiCuss, and sleep well ;)
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz?
<Seveas> not around
<Seveas> tried to ping him to no avail
<sabdfl> ok, let's move on
<Seveas> members or women?
* sabdfl notes that Michael Moore is an interesting person to have on a Loco Team :)
<sabdfl> sheilas!
<jsgotangco> haha
<ogra> heh
* YukiCuss grins.
<Seveas> :) 
<sabdfl> is svaksha here?
<svaksha> yes , Vidya Ayer here
<Seveas> "#ubuntu-women on Freenode - officially recognised or not."
<sabdfl> svaksha: would you introduce Ubuntu Women, please?
<Seveas> is there such a thing as an official channel?
<svaksha> sure, 
<svaksha> well I dont about the official bit ...
<sabdfl> svaksha pinged me earlier by email
<svaksha> Ubuntu Women is a group functioning under Ubuntu to provide a platform and encouragement for women to contribute to Ubuntu-Linux Membership is open to all.
<sabdfl> asking about official recognition of UbuntuWomen by Canonical, and I think recognition by the CC is more important
<svaksha> the non-official part i heard from another forums member Susana
<svaksha> ok
<sabdfl> svaksha: are there several different groups that are related to "women in ubuntu", or is your group the primary initiative?
<Seveas> I realy don't like to see women as a separate group, sounds very sexist - but I'm probably missing something 
<elmo> Seveas: you are missing something
<jsgotangco> Seveas: we'll do ubuntu-blokes don't worry
<elmo> Seveas: you should probably review the history of debian women
<elmo> Seveas: that deeply flawed argument has come up before
<sabdfl> i tihnk it's very worthwhile to have a group focused on this
<svaksha> after I wrote to you last year , panickthumb from the forums mentiioned about this and I asked him to contact you or canonical directly 
<Seveas> elmo, ok
<sabdfl> as long as we never have folks suggesting that the ONLY place for women in ubuntu is that group
<Kamion> right
<highvoltage> i've been on the debian-women mailing list before, i've never seen so many "*hugs*" on a list before :)
<sabdfl> are there any other comments on the idea of having a group focused on "women in ubuntu"?
<svaksha> sabdfl, i dont know what happened after that but I noticed a URL registered in Dec and in Jan got your OK
<ogra> highvoltage, you dont share a list with dholbach, do you ? 
<ogra> :)
<sabdfl> there is some concern that different groups are trying to achieve the same thing
<highvoltage> ogra: yep :) debian-women have mor!
<sabdfl> i would like to make sure everyone is talking together
<jsgotangco> sabdfl: the u-w list has been pretty active (im subscribed)
<jsgotangco> there's lots of promise
<sabdfl> jsgotangco: me too :-)
<jsgotangco> hah
<Seveas> <highvoltage> i've been on the debian-women mailing list before, i've never seen so many "*hugs*" on a list before <-- sounds like a list for dholbach
<sabdfl> svaksha: can we consolidate the different domains that have been registered by different people?
<sabdfl> and make sure everyone's working on the same initiative?
<sabdfl> are there any reasons why that should not happen?
<highvoltage> i think that ubuntu-women might be a good idea, not as a feminist activist group, or as a group for just women, but as a forum to discuss the general involvement of women in the project
<svaksha> no
<G0SUB> the issue is that there are a lot of unofficial UW sites / blogs / wikis ... we should try and get them together to avoid redundancy
<highvoltage> and to monitor current community activities and evaluate how we can involve the other half of the world population in ubuntu
<sabdfl> svaksha: so have you chatted with susana, and you're certain that she's happy to work with you?
<Seveas> highvoltage, agreed, as long as it's NEVER going to be women-welcom-only or women-only-welcome-there which is what I'm a bit afraid of
<sabdfl> Seveas: we will make certain of that, yes
<highvoltage> Seveas: agreed, I would think that 'they' feel the same
<svaksha> i did ask her to bring up the issue on the list 
<ogra> Seveas, highvoltage i think thats up to the team to define itself ;)
<Kamion> highvoltage: mentorship seems valuable too
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> its been asked
<Seveas> ogra, true that
<svaksha> its not women only ...please read this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
<sabdfl> i'm pretty certain mako would be thrilled with this :-)
<Seveas> do I dare ask why?
<highvoltage> ogra: also agreed, it was just my attempt to explain that a group about women in Ubuntu may add value
<sabdfl> very nicely done wiki page, svaksha
<Spec> How many members are on the u-w list?
<svaksha> thanks
<svaksha> around 70+
<Kamion> I like how that page lists technical skills first
<svaksha> yes but that scares away newcomers so Clytie toned it down a little
<Seveas> the wikipage looks very nice indeed 
<Kamion> a lot of women's-groups pages I've seen have almost seemed embarrassed at the idea that technical skills might be involved, which always seemed incongruous to me - I like what you have there
<Kamion> oh, is that Clytie Siddall (spelling?)
<svaksha> yep
<Kamion> cool, encountered her sending huge piles of Vietnamese translations
<svaksha> :)
<flint> The Ubuntu community is very well represented by the male persuasion, yet women are a precious precious to this.  As an individual married for over a quarter-century let me give you all some advice.  They want a room, they get a room.  
<sabdfl>  #ubuntu-women it is then ;-)
<svaksha> thanks :)
<jsgotangco> yay!
<sabdfl> ok, any further comments?
<highvoltage> :)
<Seveas> yes, one comment
<Seveas> Welcome!
<ogra> :)
<sabdfl> ditto :-)
* psusi wonders why they feel the need to associate with each other... have their own channel... go to the bathroom with each other... weird.
<svaksha> thanks to you all for the support and the CC too :)
<Seveas> psusi, 42
<jsgotangco> haha
<flint> psusi, if that is all you ever worry about...
<Seveas> ok, shall we move on to new members?
<flint> :^)
<sabdfl> psusi: there are greater mysteries in life
<sabdfl> like handbags
<sabdfl> i'm doing some research in this regard
<azeem> psusi: AIUI, the channel is welcoming male people as well?
<Spec> heh
<neuralis> sabdfl: it's a dead end. give up and run away while you still can.
<Seveas> sabdfl, they come from the bermuda triangle it seems
<sabdfl> ok
<Seveas> half the world can disappear into it
<sabdfl> members!
<Whatsisname> supposedly one guy completely figured out how women work
<Seveas> Spec, your 3-liner please
<Whatsisname> but he died of laughing before he could tell anyone
<Seveas> Spec == NicholasWeeler
<sabdfl> Whatsisname: easy, tiger
<Spec> Hello, I'm Nicholas Wheeler, and I'm applying for membership to help with the Ubuntu cause. I'm interested in becomming a MOTU eventually.
<Spec> Currently I'm involved in bug triaging of all sorts -- particularly interested in making the science packages, err, work.
<Seveas> is the MOTU cheerleading squad arround to support Spec ?
<flint> I am here to vouch for Nick.  He is a good hack.
<flint> elkner would be here but he is busy teaching newer hacks.
<ogra> he wrote a great Howto on the wiki for mondo/mindi use :)
<Seveas> \o/ from me for doing bug triaging
<Spec> I also wrote a how-to for the broadcom 43xx card
<flint> ogra, indeed he did.
<Seveas> we need much more bug triagers
<flint> Seveas, i fully intend to understand Malone, I promise I will if you pass Nick.
<flint> :^)
<Seveas> Spec, your wikipage is not completely clear - for how long have you been contributong to Ubuntu?
<Spec> Contributing, only a couple of months.
<Spec> I've been using it since hoary I think.
<psusi> hehe... 42
<Seveas> couple of months sounds good, any MOTU to confirm that?
<Seveas> ogra, ?
<flint> I have not status here but I can confirm that by direct observation.
<Seveas> flint, how is the DC loco doing, dormant or active?
<ogra> Seveas, he is the webmaster of the DC LoCo team, when went that online ;)
<flint> Seveas, the DC loco is represented by Kjcole who just joined.  It is VERY active.  ask him.
<Spec> It is very active. :)
<Seveas> nice
<ogra> Spec, are you innvolved in the edubuntu deployment thing in DC ?
<flint> kjcole, you need to say something glib, I know you can...
<kjcole> Hi all.  Sorry to be late. ;-)
<Seveas> hi Kevin - please help Spec by cheerleading 
<Spec> ogra: yeap
<ogra> cool !
<kjcole> The DC LoCo's now got a few active bzr projects starting up.
<sabdfl> Spec: how was FOSE?
* ogra cheers for Spec
<Spec> very very successful, gave out 1300 ubuntu cds
<spacey> thats quite a lot
<Spec> (+1300 opensuse, but that doesn't matter)
<Seveas> WOW
<kjcole> Nick and I represented the LoCo at FOSE, and it was a great show.
<Spec> We were very popular at the convention.
<Kamion> that MondoMindi page is pretty hideously hackish; can we please get the existing packages up to scratch instead?
<Spec> Being next to the bathrooms has it's advantages, i'll have to say...
<Seveas> (I need some point of reference - how big is the DC area, how many people live there?)
<sabdfl> +1 from me on Spec for membership based on advocacy and bug triage, not sure if elmo or kamion have additional questions
<Spec> Kamion: I believe in dapper they are up to scratch, in breezy it's a lost cause.
<kjcole> We also had the trifold Ubuntu brochures that I picked up at UBZ and handed those out as well.
<Kamion> ah, I see that in the wiki page now, although it's kind of brief and easy to skip over, maybe a bit more text is called for so that people don't go to more work than necessary
<Kamion> fair enough
<kjcole> (Unfortunately, I didn't have quite as many of those brochures.  And I now wish I'd had bumper stickers as well.)
<elmo> yeah, kamion++, that wiki page is making me cry
<flint> Kamion, I am responsible for the hackishness of these pages, not nick.
<jsgotangco> kjcole: wink and you shall receive (hopefully)
<Spec> I'll edit flint's work to make it prettier :)
<elmo> if the "Not needed for >= Dapper" bit at the top could be highlighted, that owuld be good
<elmo> but in any event ack from me
<Kamion> other than that, no questions, the other work seems good, and I probably need to have a look over the bcm43xx page myself ...
<kjcole> jsgotangco, Yeah.  My fault.  I should have thought about those sooner.
<Kamion> so +1 from me
<Spec> Kamion: It's pretty good, but there's lots of guess-work to get it working still. I think that's the driver's fault.
<sabdfl> so +1 from Kamion?
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> welcome aboard
<Seveas> ok, congratz Spec !
<ogra> Spec, welcome :)
<Spec> thank you :)
<flint> thank you all.
<sabdfl> i'll approve it in LP
<Spec> I have to thank my cheerleaders, as well :)
<Kamion> Seveas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_DC
<kjcole> jelkner, you're just in time to congratulate Spec... ;-)
<jelkner> congratulations!
<sabdfl> hey jeff
<jelkner> the DC LoCo needed a MOTU
<sabdfl> victor!
<jelkner> sabdfl: hi
<sabdfl> bstqc_ostl around?
<jelkner> yeah DC LoCo Team!
<Seveas> probably not
<jsgotangco> sabdfl: i think you met this guy
<sabdfl> i've met victor in beijing, would be lovely to have him as a member but i don't think the TZ works for this meeting
<Seveas> I spoke to him earlier, sounds like a good candidate
<Spec> (So how do I get a ubuntu/memeber cloak? :p)
<sabdfl> yes, very much so
<sabdfl> but lets get him on board later
<Seveas> Spec, poke me in a /msg so I don't forget to do that
<jsgotangco> i can vouch for him too
<ogra> ah, cool, he's the guy who sends the pdf testreports to -devel :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<dholbach> yes, I'd like to see him as a member too
<Seveas> BlueT_, (Matthew Lien) is around it seems
<sabdfl> BlueT_: ping
<dholbach> I communicated with him for the test plans and he has great ideas and put incredible work into testing hoary and breezy
<kjcole> BTW, since I arrived a little late, if it hadn't already been mentioned FOSE is in it's 30th year, as the largest US federal government computer convention...
<Seveas> BlueT_, is not around I guess
<Seveas> and neither is Kuyaedz
<sabdfl> kjcole: do you think it';s a conference that should be on silbs' list?
<Seveas> that only leaves the topic of the next meeting. I think we should set a time right now
<sabdfl> ok, I will update the wiki page for the meeting
<sabdfl> when last did we do a UTC-morning meeting?
<sabdfl> for the AsiaPac characters?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, right on time!
<sabdfl> ah, welcome Kuyaedz
<Seveas> sabdfl, I think it would be nice to have an early morning meeting
<Kuyaedz> Just got out of class :)  ..glad someone came looking for me, I didn't know when this was.
<jelkner> ok if i steal Spec so i can get some work outta him?
<sabdfl> Seveas: define early
<kjcole> sabdfl, I'll check.  (I'm not familiar with what's type of stuff's already there, though I think I stumbled across that list before...)
<sabdfl> jelkner: all yours
<jelkner> now that his head is all swelled and all
<Seveas> sabdfl, after Kuyaedz' topics have been handled 
<Spec> thank you all :p
<jelkner> cya all later
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, please introduce Ubuntu-Utah to us
<sabdfl> cheers spec, jelkner
<Kuyaedz> Ubuntu-Utah is a loco team I started a few months ago.  We've steadily been growing but are still relatively small.
<Seveas> how many members?
<Kuyaedz> 11 members registered on the launchpad page, but I know of ~4-5 more that aren't 'official' yet.
<Seveas> around 10 - not too bad
<Kuyaedz> We've got members at 3 Utah Universities, which I think is helpful.
<Seveas> not bad, 10 active members is good for a starting team
<Kuyaedz> We've set a goal to double that by Dapper release.
<Seveas> What is the team doing to promote Ubuntu besides handing out CD's?
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: how active are you in the forums?
<Kuyaedz> Well the CD distribution and team recruitment are the short-term goals that we're currently working on.  In the long term we would like to present school districts with Ubuntu/Edubuntu.
<Kuyaedz> sadbfl: I have roughly 750 forum posts.
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, nice
<ogra> yeah !
<Seveas> I'm quite happy with how the Utah team is forming the way I see now
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: have you seen the proposals about a forums council?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, is there a specifi reason to use ubuntu-utah.org instead of ut.ubuntu-us.org?
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: I'm glad to hear that.  I have the day off today & was hoping to get more team-related work done.
<Kuyaedz> sadbfl: I have not.
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: There is not.  I did not know who to contact concerning an official team site so I registered one.  Also we have requested an official mailing list 3x with no responses.
<Kamion> Kuyaedz: was that request to jdub?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, I was going to ask what you would like to see from the CC, but that's clear now 
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: np, i appreciate your initiative in going ahead
<G0SUB> IMHO the mailing list creation is a bit of a bottleneck as jdub is a very busy guy
<sabdfl> G0SUB: would it help if we put mailing lists into LP?
<Kuyaedz> We've been using a google-groups system for the time being.
<Seveas> Who is the contact for *.ubuntu-us.org, smurf or someone else?
<G0SUB> sabdfl: yes it will
<sabdfl> G0SUB: i think you mean "yes it might" ;-)
<Seveas> sabdfl, or simply give jdub an assistant
<G0SUB> sabdfl: heh ...
<G0SUB> Seveas: ++
<sabdfl> but, we've been looking at that here this week
<sabdfl> we can do it, it will just take a little while
<G0SUB> sabdfl: what about giving jdub an assistant?
<G0SUB> I can help with this
<jsgotangco> fridge jr
<Kuyaedz> Concerning the mailing list I contacted MathiasUlrich & also sent an email to Jeff Waugh.
<jsgotangco> heh
<sabdfl> G0SUB: offer to help, i'm sure he will accept
<G0SUB> sabdfl: should I mail him directly?
<Seveas> G0SUB, put my name in that mail to - I want to help there if possible
<G0SUB> sabdfl: fine, I will CC you 
<G0SUB> thanks :)
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: I was wondering if it would be possible to get a layout template so our team site could nearly match the look/feel of the central.
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: i think that's all public
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, as you can see the organizational things are sometimes problematic - but it'll be solved soon I guess. I will keep poking jdub/g0sub and smurf about it
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: thank you
<Amaranth> when did launchpad turn into sourceforge?
<G0SUB> oh, one more thing ... can we put up the moinmoin, drupal themes used in u.c & fridge somewhere?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, I have a PHP based template for ubuntulinux.nl - you might want to look at that after the meeting, but poke me after the meeting for that
<G0SUB> so that people can reuse them?
<sabdfl> Amaranth: when some of us had a spare weekend
<Amaranth> sabdfl: hehe
<G0SUB> haha
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: will do
<sabdfl> ok
<ogra> Amaranth, pfft, sourceforge is sooo last century
<Amaranth> seriously, about the only thing missing is bzr write
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: thanks for your work on Utah
<jsgotangco> sometimes its like friendster
<sabdfl> what about your membership?
<Seveas> Amaranth, supermirror 
<sabdfl> Amaranth: it's coming
<Kuyaedz> sadbfl: happy to do it. I just wish we had more time/resources :)
<sabdfl> fairly soon, as it happens
<Amaranth> cool
<Amaranth> then i can use launchpad for alacarte instead of gnome cvs (eww)
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, lack of time is a global problem ;)
<Amaranth> </offtopic>
<G0SUB> [repeat]  can we put up the moinmoin, drupal themes used in u.c & fridge somewhere?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, habe you collected a cheerleeding swuad to support your membership application?
<sabdfl> G0SUB: speak with henrik, they are already public somewhere
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: membership?
<G0SUB> sabdfl: ok, thanks
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: Well I was going to see what members of the team could come along, but even I didn't have much notice on the meeting :)
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, true. it was very short notice
<Kuyaedz> sabdfl: What can I tell you about membership?  Is there more I can do?
<sabdfl> your wiki page is excellent
<sabdfl> very happy to see the laptop testing info
<Kuyaedz> sabdfl: I was hoping to update a few of those with Dapper results before the meeting..
<sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on membership and loco leadership, kamion and elmo may have more questions
<elmo> +1
<Kuyaedz> sabdfl: thank you.
<Seveas> \o/ from me, wikipage looks good, active since october and doing great things in Utah
<Kuyaedz> elmo: again, thank you.
<sabdfl> +1 on the elmo-statue from you, Kuyaedz?
<G0SUB> Kuyaedz: awesome! that's great :)
<Seveas> sabdfl, yes, we need an elmo statue 
<G0SUB> sabdfl: heh, I already spoke about it in the last meet
<G0SUB> wrt the statue
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: have you applied for membership in ubuntumembers in LP?
<Kuyaedz> sabdfl: I did
<Kuyaedz> If there is anything else you'd like to see me do, or the team, don't hesitate to ask.
<sabdfl> Kuyaedz: i don't see you in the list
<sabdfl> what's your LP nick? display name?
<sabdfl> or real name?
<Kuyaedz> sabdfl: kuyaedz or christer-edwards
<Seveas> kuyaedz
<Seveas> I see him in the list
<sabdfl> ok, it would be nice to put your proper name in the LP account
<Kamion> ok, sorry I've been discussing things elsewhere, +1 from me
<sabdfl> done
<sabdfl> welcome!
<Seveas> Kamion, great
<Kuyaedz> thank you.
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, welcome aboard!
<Kamion> Kuyaedz: and thanks for the JigdoDownloadHowto page, I've been meaning to write something like that for a while
<Kuyaedz> I'm very excited. thank you.
<sabdfl> good work!
<G0SUB> Kuyaedz: welcome!
<dholbach> congratulations Kuyaedz
<jsgotangco> congrats
<highvoltage> congrats, Kuyaedz 
<ogra> congrats Kuyaedz 
<Seveas> sabdfl, about the meeting time, given that the CC is in the UK largely 8/9AM UTC-ish?
<sabdfl> Kamion: what's the drill on the meeting agenda page, should i delete the folks approved in the last meeting, make a note of those approved here, and delete those who did not show up?
<Kamion> sabdfl: yes, yes, no make a note of those who didn't show up
<sabdfl> Seveas: i'd prefer 10am, and excuse elmo :-)
<Seveas> sabdfl, usually I take care of the editing ;)
<Kuyaedz> I'm glad I made it in time.  The councilagenda page said "TBA".  I was just hoping someone would contact me
<G0SUB> yay! jdub
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, I tried
<Kamion> can we get mako at 10am UK time?
<elmo> (fwiw, I can get up, if I need to)
<Kamion> ok, if we've got elmo then it doesn't matter
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: atoponce mentioned in #ubuntu-utah. Thanks for coming to find me.
<YukiCuss> Kuyaedz, I barely managed. :)
<Seveas> 10am is ~4am mako-time iirc
<Seveas> sounds like a bad idea
<Kuyaedz> Is there anything immediate that everyone would like to see done with the Utah Team?
<Seveas> (for him, that is)
<Kamion> jdub: did you see the stuff above about mailing list creation?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, yes, one thing
<Seveas> Keep rocking!
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: I will find you later concerning the template.  Also should we migrate to ut.ubuntu-us.org?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, you don't "have to" but it would be nice
<Seveas> (which reminds me, I should still migrate to ubuntu-nl.org)
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: Should I also speak with you later about that & access?
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, yes, preferably in an hour or two (dinner time)
<jdub> Kamion: no - but elmo's sorting out the RT queue for them, which will make it *vastly* easier to manage.
<Seveas> Kamion, sabdfl, elmo: so tue april4 10am UTC? 
<Kamion> works for me
<Seveas> it'll be DST then
<jdub> Kamion: there's two pending atm, utah and ebuntu
<G0SUB> jdub: can I be your assistant in setting up the mailing lists?
<Kamion> slightly better than today actually, sorry for setting a meeting time and then being late for it :)
<sabdfl> errr... actually i might be on a flight to a conference
<Seveas> sabdfl, hmm, move the meeting to monday? 
<neuralis> Seveas: that'll be 5am EST, so no dice if you're trying to get mako.
<Kuyaedz> Seveas: will do.
<jdub> G0SUB: it requires access to the server and so on - there's not a lot of work involved, and it ends up being more policy than anything else
<sabdfl> no, sec, i'm just trying to find out
<Seveas> ok
<G0SUB> jdub: sabdfl told that you might be in need of some help wrt this
<G0SUB> ok
<Seveas> (fiancee is pulling on my ears to get me to the dinner table - I may disappear suddenly)
<sabdfl> monday is clearer for me, elmo, are you still on EST?
<Kuyaedz> Ok well I'll get ahold of Seveas later.  Is there anything else I'm needed for?
<elmo> sabdfl: yes, but I can shift without problems
<Seveas> Kuyaedz, no, we're done here
<Seveas> sabdfl, ok, monday april 3 it is then
<Kuyaedz> thank you again.
<sabdfl> 9am?
<elmo> G0SUB: we're redirecting the list admin stuff to RT, which means there'll be 2 more people helping with lists stuff
<Seveas> if 9am is ok with Kamion and elmo 
<G0SUB> elmo: that'd be great then
<Kamion> 9am's doable as long as Kirsten is well again by then to take Benedict to school
<Kamion> which should be the case
<Seveas> ok, elmo?
<elmo> yes
<Seveas> cool Apr 3, 09:00 UTC it is
<jsgotangco> nice
* Seveas off  - fiancee is getting mad
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep too
<jsgotangco> good meeting
<G0SUB> jsgotangco: good night :)
<Kamion> ok, thanks all, guess that's adjourned
<kjcole> Good night to those of you half a world away... (Noon'ish here.)
<highvoltage> night kjcole 
<sabdfl> night all
<svaksha>  g'night all
<Amaranth> kjcole: central time?
<Surak> perhaps the channel topic may reflect this change.
<Amaranth> good night to those of you in odd time zones :P
<G0SUB> Amaranth: hehe lol
<kjcole> Amaranth: Eastern.  Actually 12:25 PM.
<Mizar> bye
<flint> kjcole, will call and bother you... sksk
<kjcole> Ta-ta, all.
<Seveas> @load webcal
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Fujitsu> Did the CC meeting end up happening 5 hours ago?
<Seveas> yes
<Fujitsu> OK.
<Fujitsu> How'd it go?
<Seveas> it went all right 
<Fujitsu> Good.
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-21
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Mar 08:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu
<pips1> hi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Mar 08:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<s|g> Seveas: msg ?
<Seveas> s|g, sure
<s|g> Seveas: gimme me a min.
<Seveas> s|g, minute's up :p
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-22
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 08:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<ranf> !date -u
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 Mar 08:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 08:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 Mar 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Mar 08:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-23
<dholbach> hellas
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 27 Mar 10:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 00:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 22:00: Marketing Team
<cbx33> .
* cbx33 has 400 to spend on a media pc
<cbx33> sorry .... wrong window
<Simira> heh/
* Simira read "has to spend 400 on a media pc", and wondered if there was any problem
<Burgwork> cbx33: why not just buy a micro atx and install it in an old radio?
<cbx33> Burgwork, that's an idea i suppose
<Burgwork> anyway, we shouldn't be talking in this chan
<cbx33> no
<gouki> @schedule portugal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Portugal: 27 Mar 09:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 21:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 21:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 23:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 21:00: Marketing Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-24
<Hobbsee> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Mar 08:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 27 Mar 18:00: MOTU | 28 Mar 06:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 08:00: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Apr 06:00: Marketing Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Mar 03:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 17:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 15:00: Marketing Team
<beuno> what?  wasn't the marketing meeting 20:00 UTC?
<beuno> yes it is, crazy bot
<beuno> oh, chicago
* beuno shuts up
<mark007> @schedule New York
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Mar 04:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 16:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 16:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 18:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 16:00: Marketing Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 27 Mar 18:00: MOTU | 28 Mar 06:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 06:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 08:00: Xubuntu | 30 Mar 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Apr 06:00: Marketing Team
<BFTD> !time
<BFTD> !meet
<BFTD> !meeting
<mc44> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Mar 08:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team
<BFTD> yes but i want to know the time till a paticular meeting
<BFTD> or rather what time in the day it'll be for me
<mc44> do @schedule location
<BFTD> @schedule los_angels
<BFTD> @schedule los_angeles
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 27 Mar 01:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 13:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 13:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 15:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 13:00: Marketing Team
<BFTD> sweet
<BFTD> 3 PM is perfect
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-03-25
<Toadstool> a"5
<Toadstool> uhuh
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 27 Mar 10:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 22:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 00:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 22:00: Marketing Team
<juliux> @schedule
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 Mar 08:00: MOTU | 27 Mar 20:00: Technical Board | 28 Mar 20:00: Edubuntu | 28 Mar 22:00: Xubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Apr 20:00: Marketing Team
<sacater> e/win 21
<sacater> sorry
<Ubugtu> Announcement from my owner (Seveas): ubugtu will be taken offline and integrated with ubotu - epect some downtime
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-19
<james_w> Morning all
 * slangasek wavse
<evand> hello
 * ogra_cmpc yawns
<asac> hi!
<bryyce> heya
<calc> hi
 * ArneGoetje waves
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
<Hobbsee> evening
 * slangasek waves to the round of new arrivals :)
<cjwatson> good morning
<TheMuso> Morning cjwatson.
 * bryyce waves
<cjwatson> ok, so the first thing I had was to check up on beta status, and find out if there are any red lights
<asac> green light from me
<bryyce> xorg: green
<TheMuso> Intend to do another FAT32 wubi install in the next half hour or so, but green appart from a few non-critical a11y issues that are ongoing.
<ogra_cmpc> ltsp needs some post beta love still but good for beta ... same for edubuntu
<slangasek> things appear to be on schedule, no one's milestoned any new bugs that would force us to reroll all the CDs
<evand> things look ok here, oem-config is missing tzmap fixes, but they don't cause it to crash or are devistating.  Ubiquity looks good aside from the usability issues in the tzmap.
<calc> 2.4 final releases next week, barring any other issues cropping up
<asac> ogra_cmpc: btw, my classmate install i did for testing didn't work anymore when i wanted to demonstrate it this weeken
<calc> and i plan to have debs for it as soon as possible after release, i have about 66 in progress bugs to go over for it
<ogra_cmpc> define "didnt work"
<asac> ogra_cmpc: well, after login the desktop comes up, but its rather frozen
<ogra_cmpc> (and probably better past meeting :))
<asac> e.g. i cannot do anything at all
<asac> yeah
<cjwatson> bug 199129 worried me slightly; is that generally being seen during testing?
<evand> ah indeed.  That showed up for me during testing, iirc.
<evand> Though I clicked cancel
<evand> and thus had no issue progressing
 * cjwatson <- slightly freaked out by beta candidates being ready a day early, though not actually complaining ;-)
<slangasek> ehm, it's not early according to the schedule... :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, that langasek guy is scary
<ogra_cmpc> getting us ahead of time :)
<cjwatson> I was thinking of past form more than the schedule. :-)
<slangasek> and we still need more TESTS so we can know if the candidates are any good ;)
 * evand will thoroughly test the candidates after a few hours of sleep.
<cjwatson> right. so does anyone have a good reason to be doing anything other than beta candidate testing today?
 * TheMuso will be doing just that tomorrow.
<cjwatson> (modulo timezones)
<slangasek> yes, I also have to draft a release announcement
<slangasek> :)
<Hobbsee> is getting very drunk a good reason?  :)
<TheMuso> And can give wubi a good flogging if need be.
 * ogra_cmpc raises hand for classmate work ... but i did my ltsp and addon installs yesterday already
<asac> i can spend a half day without feeling bad. i have backport security fixes and drive general blocker bugs forward
<calc> cjwatson: i can do testing, or continue on the OOo stuff :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: and I have to review it, but yes ...
 * ArneGoetje is still downloading the image since yesterday... download speed for kubuntu images really sucks here at the moment...
<evand> indeed, I'll also try to break Wubi.
<TheMuso> evand: I'm assuming no progress on the kernel command-line thing...
<calc> doko: wrt GoOOCon i hadn't heard definite from you yet if you are also attending?
<slangasek> flogging wubi implies rebuilding the CDs so the new version gets on there?
<evand> TheMuso: there possibly is, but it's lumped in some changes that are awaiting a beta freeze exception
<bryyce> I'll go through and do reinstalls on my systems too.  Most of my remaining bug priorities are more minor
<slangasek> or is it just the standalone that we're worrying about?
<ogra_cmpc> ArneGoetje, use rsync, even rsyncing kubuntu on top of an ubuntu image you have already saves bandwith
<evand> TheMuso: though he shoved some things in the preseed file so the issue should be mitigated regardless
<ArneGoetje> ogra_cmpc: rsync is even slower... :(
<slangasek> (I'm not opposed to selective CD rebuilds with good cause; there are certainly bugs we can fix along the way for a stronger beta if we do that, such as the 199129 that cjwatson mentioned)
<ogra_cmpc> bah
<ogra_cmpc> bad ISPs
<TheMuso> evand: Ok great.
<cjwatson> re download speeds, cdimage is very slow at the moment; I found that repeatedly ctrl-c'ing and wget -c helped
<evand> slangasek: the version of wubi on the CDs should be good.
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: thanks for the hint... will try
<ogra_cmpc> same for rsync i found
<cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: I think it's a DC problem; lots of people are reporting it, and elmo has mentioned that cdimage is badly overloaded
<slangasek> hmm, ctrl-c'ing an rsync and restarting it is tricky though
<cjwatson> yeah, rsync is hard
<bryyce> mirrors?
<ogra_cmpc> slangasek, why ? it just starts over
<slangasek> ogra_cmpc: yes, it starts over /from the beginning/ ;)
<ogra_cmpc> right
<slangasek> which is not what wget -c does
<cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: if you ctrl-c it, it will either discard all the stuff it's rsynced so far, or it will truncate your image and you'll have to download all the rest of it the hard way
<ogra_cmpc> it usually hangs at 0 or 1%
<ogra_cmpc> so there is not much lost
<TheMuso> Setting a partial dir can help.
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: yes, much better now... :)
<evand> and here I thought my download issue was all Comcast's fault.  Fantastic.
<ogra_cmpc> and i havent had a truncated image yet
<TheMuso> evand: heh yeah I thought I was shaped for a bit.
<TheMuso> shaped, as in gone over quota, and speed limited.
<evand> heh
<cjwatson> I didn't know about --partial-dir; that looks ideal for solving this problem
<cjwatson> I think I settled on my rsync habits when we were preparing warty, and --partial-dir is newer than that :-)
<cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: truncation is if you use --partial
<cjwatson> (not --partial-dir)
<ogra_cmpc> i dont use either ... only -az --progress
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I have a script to fetch all Ubuntu images, and derivatives, I've been thinking of rewriting it in python and making a GUI actually, I think it would be useful for a lot of people.
<slangasek> not me, short of buying a bigger disk :)
<TheMuso> Anyway, back OT.
<bryyce> TheMuso: cool; put it up on people.ubuntu.com :-)
<TheMuso> bryyce: I was thinking of packaging it actually, and putting it in ubuntu-dev-tools, or maybe its own package.
<TheMuso> slangasek: I don't keep old images.
<ArneGoetje> TheMuso: wouldn't that hurt cdimage even more? :P
<TheMuso> I only have one image for each.
<cjwatson> calc: if you can get images in time, doing testing today would be valuable
<cjwatson> (instead of other things)
<calc> cjwatson: ok
 * TheMuso reminds all that his core hours will be 4 hours earlier than usual tomorrow, so will be able to help out with testing even earlier than usual, if images are still being tested.
<cjwatson> calc: but check iso.qa.ubuntu.com first for where the current holes are
<bryyce> ArneGoetje: maybe it needs a bittorrent backend ;-)
<calc> have the images already been release?
<calc> er released
<TheMuso> calc: not afaik
<calc> ah, too bad i'm due to bed right after the meeting
<slangasek> define "released"?
<cjwatson> calc: iso.qa.ubuntu.com should have links to current candidates
<calc> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> ok, so aside from beta, I wanted to welcome james_w to the platform team
 * asac hugs james_w 
<james_w> thankyou
<bryyce> heya james_w
<TheMuso> james_w: Nice to welcome you officially after all this time.
 * slangasek waves to james_w
<calc> hi james_w!
<evand> welcome james_w!
<ArneGoetje> Hi james_w !
<james_w> thanks all, it's good to work with you all.
<cjwatson> James will be helping us out with general bug-fixing, and you may also know him from bzr-builddeb, so he'll be working on improving our toolset for collaborative maintenance
 * dholbach hugs james_w
<asac>  \o/
<TheMuso> Nice.
<slangasek> james_w: so I have this bug that was blocking me from merging from the Debian grub subversion repo... :)
<TheMuso> lol
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<ogra_cmpc> hey james
<TheMuso> I have this bug about Debian using git. :p
<james_w> slangasek: I saw that. You're really pushing the boundaries there, I don't know anyone who has done what you are :)
<james_w> slangasek: I'll take a look later.
<evand> I have these ~ 500 bugs ;)
<calc> evand: i have fewer bugs now :-)
<evand> calc: does this mean I win something?
<Hobbsee> evand: not a pony.
<evand> it's a race to the top, right?
<evand> :(
<calc> evand: yea heh
<ArneGoetje> evand: are you breeding them? :D
<calc> evand: went from ~ 675 bugs to ~ 375 now
 * Amaranth is down to 189 bugs
<calc> wow cdimage is going at 3KB/s for me
<Amaranth> some of which come from calc getting rid of his bugs :P
 * asac doesn't count bugs anymore
 * ogra_cmpc stopped as well 
<Amaranth> asac: yikes, i can see why
<cjwatson> so, do we have any other business for the day? my head is full of beta
<calc> wow some of the cdimage servers are much faster than others
<evand> testing of wubi is appreciated
<asac> cjwatson: is rtg on holiday or something?
<evand> this applying to anyone that still has a copy of windows lying around
<asac> i tried to msg him because of some issues we have with intel wifi chipsets
<bryyce> calc, 2.03K/s
<slangasek> haha, Windows
<slangasek> ;)
<asac> e.g. bug 183928 for instance
<calc> bryyce: i hit one that is going at fullrate for me
 * calc keeps its ip secret ;-)
<TheMuso> I'm caring for wubi/windows because its a way of possibly getting more people involved/testing/using Linux a11y.
<slangasek> asac: rtg is on vacation; I think you want to talk to amitk or BenC
<asac> slangasek: ok ill try
<cjwatson> www.canonicaladmin.com is good for checking on vacations
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> there's a holiday calendar widget
<bryyce> calc: whoa you're right
<ogra_cmpc> asac, amitk is MINE ! (until cmpc resume works)
<Amaranth> but amitk also has this interesting compiz bug i wanted to look at... :P
<cjwatson> right, doesn't seem like a whole lot of other meeting business
<cjwatson> thanks all, and I'll let you get back to beta :-)
<cjwatson> adjourned
<asac> thanks!
<ogra_cmpc> thanks :)
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<Amaranth> hey, while i've got everyone: can anyone reproduce https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/131679 ?
<james_w> thanks
<evand> thanks
<TheMuso> thanks
<TheMuso> wooa lag
<asac> Amaranth: i haven't seen this, but i don't have a screensaver
<asac> e.g. just black when locked
<Amaranth> no one seems to be able to reproduce it but new dupes keep showing up
 * calc doesn't use compiz
<james_w> Amaranth: we need to suspend first?
<bryyce> night!
<calc> Amaranth: are they all with nvidia driver?
<Amaranth> i don't think so
<calc> Amaranth: oh
<Amaranth> because i have nvidia and i can't reproduce
<calc> well i haven't seen it with just metacity
<calc> but i am on -intel with metacity
<Amaranth> and Hobbsee doesn't have nvidia and could reproduce at one time
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: i've not been able to reproduce it recently
<calc> ok
<Amaranth> frustrating bug because the stacktrace is worthless and it keeps getting milestoned for the next release and then bumped
<asac> Amaranth: how do you know that the dupes are actually dupes if its a bogus stack?
<Amaranth> asac: that's the thing, i don't
<Amaranth> all stacktraces that show compiz dying in eventLoop are basically worthless, it probably went bad some time before this
<asac> ok. i would assume that the bug is just a sink for unrelated bogus compiz crashers :)
<slangasek> so what you need is for someone to try to run their compositing window manager under valgrind... :)
 * slangasek gets the dry heaves
<Amaranth> slangasek: sure, just go make a sandwich or something while it starts
<asac> Amaranth: maybe you could post instructions on how to run compiz to get more valuable information?
<slangasek> Amaranth: I think my laptop would melt down, and that would make me sad
<asac> of course if out of luck those that reported the bug don't see it again
<Amaranth> no one seems to get this more than once
<Amaranth> until i try to close the bug, then they come out of the woodwork
<Amaranth> but when i ask them to help me fix it they all go away again
<calc> Amaranth: mark it won't fix then? ;-)
<Amaranth> i'm tempted
<slangasek> oh?  for instance, I don't see any follow-ups to bug #198467 (the latest dupe)
<calc> its the closest to can't fix we have
<slangasek> which was filed after the last comments in the main bug, so
<Amaranth> how the heck did apport manage to autodupe that one?
<slangasek> apport is maagic
<asac> Amaranth: is there usually enough system information gathered during bug submission? otherwise you could add an apport hook to compiz package
<slangasek> anyway, we can probably take this over to #u-devel, right?
<Amaranth> yeah
 * calc gone to bed
<ogra_cmpc> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00: MOTU
<foldart> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00: MOTU
<foldart> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 20 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 27 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 15:00: MOTU
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 20 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 27 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 15:00: MOTU
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 19 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 28 Mar 00:00: MOTU
<keescook> @now utc
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 19 2008, 18:28:18 - Next meeting: Server Team in 2 hours 31 minutes
<nijaba> @now utc
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 19 2008, 20:02:57 - Next meeting: Server Team in 57 minutes
<jdstrand> hi kirkland!
<jdstrand> hi nijaba!
<nijaba> hey jdstrand, long time no see ;)
<kirkland> jdstrand: howdy, i think the meeting is in +1 hour, right?
<Seveas> kirkland, ubotu just said that :)
<nijaba> ubotu just said 57min
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about just said 57min - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<kirkland> so say ubotu
<kirkland> Seveas: yep, I agree ;-)
<jdstrand> kirkland: ah, maybe
<jdstrand> I thought someone said 2 hours 15 minutes about 2 hours and 15 minutes ago
 * jdstrand goes back under his rock
<gcleric> @now utc
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: March 19 2008, 20:04:44 - Next meeting: Server Team in 55 minutes
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<zul> evening
<sommer> hello
<gcleric> aloha!
<mathiaz> helloww !
<keescook> \m/
<nijaba> meow
 * jdstrand waves
<mathiaz> alright - let's get this started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:00. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * kirkland o/
<mathiaz> welcome to this pre-easter server team meeting
<nijaba> pre beta as well
<soren> o/
<mathiaz> nijaba: right - I was putting my stomach before ubuntu...
 * soren is only sort of here.
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] iSCSI Support
<MootBot> New Topic:  iSCSI Support
<mathiaz> soren: while you're around what's the move on iscsi ?
<soren> That's me.
<soren> Right, I've gotten the "Ok, go!" from our mighty release manager to make the appropriate changes to make root-on-iscsi work.
<mathiaz> soren: when would that work land in hardy ?
<mathiaz> soren: I guess it won't make it for beta
<soren> I've got the easy 65% done, but I'm missing the confusing last 65%.
<soren> No, certainly post-beta.
<soren> Unfortunately.
<mathiaz> soren: the next widespread testing would be RC
<mathiaz> We should try to get widespread testing before that
<soren> Sure.
<soren> I'm off from after this meeting until Tuesday, so if anyone wants to pick it up, now's the time to sout.
<mathiaz> soren: what is needed to test root-on-iscsi ?
<soren> shout, even.
<soren> mathiaz: Fancy, expensive hardware :(
<mathiaz> soren: pick it up == implement it ?
<nijaba> what about iscsi target, would it work?
<soren> mathiaz: The specific use case I'm trying to cater for is blade servers that have iscsi support in the bios.
<nijaba> guess not then
<soren> It hurts my head just thinking about it.
<soren> These things install grub on the iscsi share... and it works.
<soren> It's very confusing.
<mathiaz> soren: do you have access to such hardware ?
<soren> mathiaz: Nope.
<mathiaz> soren: or do you know of such products ?
<soren> mathiaz: ...and that's not helping either :)
<soren> mathiaz: I'm aware of their existence, and I have a friendly guy that tells me that it doesn't work.
<soren> and I totally see why, and he's given me some helpful hints about what to do.
<mathiaz> soren: so you have a tester at least
<soren> Yes.
<mathiaz> soren: great.
<nijaba> faulkes- might have some dell blade at hand, not sure if he can use them for testing though
<soren> I just need to accept that fact that the initial booting procedure works and the try to make ends meet.
<mathiaz> of course if anyone has access to such hardware, I'm sure that soren would appreicate some help in that
<nijaba> and I don't even know if dell blades supports this
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] LSB compliant init script
<MootBot> New Topic:  LSB compliant init script
<mathiaz> kirkland: how do you survive to this task ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: :-)  The task will not be completed in Hardy
<kirkland> mathiaz: discussion ensued on ubuntu-devel@
<kirkland> mathiaz: and it was determined that these changes are not acceptable in a Beta Freeze timeframe
<nijaba> (from Dr. Seuss' Horton Hears a Who), "A feature's a
<nijaba> feature no matter how small".
<kirkland> mathiaz: I still believe in the importance of the work, but I understand and agree with the freeze process
<kirkland> mathiaz: at this point, I suggest that we work with Keybuk on a plan for Intrepid
<zul> imho ideally we should have a spec for this in ibex and we can pile in more features that we want
<mathiaz> kirkland: Well - to be correct - the changes are suitable for a FeatureFreeze Exception
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - let's differ that to UDS
<kirkland> mathiaz: s/differ/defer/, yes
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'll update the Roadmap accordingly
<mathiaz> kirkland: thanks.
 * kirkland action ^
<mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to update the Roadmap wrt to the init script work
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to update the Roadmap wrt to the init script work
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Guide
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Guide
<mathiaz> sommer: so tomorrow is string freeze
<mathiaz> sommer: what's the state of the guide now ?
<sommer> should be good to go!
 * nijaba hugs sommer
<sommer> made a bug fix, grammar fix, update commit about 45 min ago
<zul> yay!!
<mathiaz> sommer: which section have been updated and reviewed wrt last week ?
<sommer> mathiaz: pretty much all of them
<mathiaz> sommer: so once we're in documentationstring freeze, what are you plans ?
<sommer> I guess the only one I may have a question about is the bzr section
 * nijaba thinks sommer should take some vacations
<sommer> heh, probably help test dapper to hardy upgrades and what not
<mathiaz> sommer: I meant on the documentation front ?
<mathiaz> sommer: are we pretty much done for hardy ?
<sommer> mathiaz: oh right, I think we're pretty well there
<sommer> I guess if there are ideas for ibex we can start gathering them
<sommer> I have a few, but the more the merrier
<mathiaz> sommer: could you add them to the IdeaPool page ?
<sommer> sure, will do
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/IdeaPool
<nijaba> I think someone should go sort the good ideas from the brainstorm stuff
<mathiaz> for general interest, this page is used to track ideas for the next cycle
 * zul didnt know about that
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to add ideas to the IdeaPool page about documentation improvements during the next release.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to add ideas to the IdeaPool page about documentation improvements during the next release.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's new on this front ?
<nijaba> We are currently fixing the last bugs
<nijaba> and waiting for the security review of limesurvey by keescook
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Status reporting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status reporting
<mathiaz> I've been trying to rework the satus reporting
<faulkes-> there were some questions re: isci booting and testing?
<mathiaz> and how we try to know what's happening in the Ubuntu Server team on the development side of things
<soren> faulkes-: Yeah. WOuld you be able to help with testing?
 * nijaba notes that he asked faulkes- to join about iscsi testing
<nijaba> duh
<faulkes-> yes, I can help, there is one caveat to that, which is time based
<soren> -> /msg
<faulkes-> I inherited this environment, the previous admin who shall remain nameless has never turned on the iscsi box ;)
<faulkes-> so I have to go to the colo and conf it up
<faulkes-> which won't be until next week, tuesday most likely
<mathiaz> so I have the idea of publishing a weekly status report from the server team
<faulkes-> otherwise, I'd be happy to help test it
<soren> faulkes-: Cool.
<mathiaz> to list what we've done and what needs to be tested and or when we request feedback
<soren> faulkes-: I'm off until Tuesday. We can talk then?
<faulkes-> sure
<mathiaz> any ideas on the form this could take ?
<mathiaz> email or blog or something else ?
<mathiaz> would this be useful ?
<nijaba> blog is nice
<nijaba> but should it be weekly?
<mathiaz> nijaba: well - there is already the montlyreport
<mathiaz> nijaba: however a lot of things are happening in the server team
<mathiaz> nijaba: and our section in the monthlyreport is already big.
<nijaba> I mean, we could have a server team blog where we log the new stuff
<mathiaz> nijaba: may a every other week then
<nijaba> does not have to be a *weekly* thinkg
<mathiaz> nijaba: I thought about starting a blog for the serverteam
<mathiaz> nijaba: mainly focused on development
<nijaba> yes
<mathiaz> nijaba: a sort of - what's cooking in ubuntu-server
<sommer> would it be called "You've been Served" ?
<mathiaz> the content would be based on the ReportingPage
<mathiaz> sommer: I don't know how it could be named
<mathiaz> sommer: I like the idea of cooking - what's coming from the kitchen of the server team
<sommer> heh, my last comment was mostly a joke :-)
<sommer> from south park???
<sommer> I think it's a great idea though
<mathiaz> Ok - so I'll think about this a bit more.
<mathiaz> Just wanted to throw the idea
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Hardy Beta
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardy Beta
<mathiaz> As you may know, we're planning to release beta tomorrow thursday
<zul> yippe skippe!
<nxvl> wasnt' the beta released on sunday?
<mathiaz> As usual - testing is welcome !
<mathiaz> nxvl: nope - we always release on Thursday
<nijaba> I have added some test cases for JeOS https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/JeOSInstall
<nxvl> oh you are right
<mathiaz> nijaba: is anyone responsible for testing JeOS ?
<nijaba> I've been on it...
<mathiaz> nijaba: they're not listed on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<nijaba> people should defintely register on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<nijaba> they will be right after beta
<nijaba> was too late for beta, sorry
<mathiaz> nijaba: ok
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<nijaba> bug #162167 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 162167 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mySQL password asks only once" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162167
<nijaba> was cited in LinuxJournal
<nxvl> 16:30 < mathiaz> email or blog or something else ?
<nijaba> nice paper about the security features of the server
<nxvl> sorry for that
<nxvl> i hit the button i shouldn't hit
<faulkes-> nxvl: dell media direct?
 * faulkes- whistles innocently
<nxvl> faulkes-: nop, left click -> middle click :P
<nxvl> nijaba: what about that bug?
<nijaba> well, I think we should make sure it is fixed soon
<nxvl> ok i will work on it right now
<nxvl> :D
<nijaba> Thanks Nicolas
<mathiaz> alright then
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: yep
<nxvl> +1
<nijaba> +1
<sommer> o//
<faulkes-> +1
<mathiaz> awesome - so see you all in a week
<mathiaz> and happy beta testing/easter chocolate eating :)
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:45.
<nijaba> thanks all
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Mar 04:00 UTC: MOTU
<coreymon77> hi, im here
<dwidmann> something
<coreymon77> blargh
<seele> meeting time?
<Riddell> good evening friends
<Riddell> anyone here for a meeting?
<nosredna_ekim> good evening
 * seele waves
<Nightrose> heya
<jpatrick> evening
<dwidmann> good evening indeed
<neversfelde|mobi> moin moin
<apachelogger_> ahoy
 * bzyx slaps Riddell around a bit with a large trout
<Czessi> Hi
<MPS> moin
<Hans_> Moin!
<blueyed> Hi
<Hans_> Good morning!
<Hobbsee> morning all
<nosredna_ekim> wow... lots of people I haven't seen :)
<MPS> :)
<awen_> hey everybody
<Riddell> unless nixternal is awake we're lacking quorum
<jpatrick> nosredna_ekim: my fault I see...
<Hans_> Early in the morning... or late in the eveing?
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<mhb> hi all
<Riddell> memberships is the usual way to start
<Riddell> blueyed: about?
<alleeHol> hi
<blueyed> I'd like to become member of kubuntu-members to express my commitment for Kubuntu and to have commit access to the different bzr repos, e.g. "kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts", to help with providing a better experience for Kubuntu users.
<blueyed> I'm very active in bug triaging and have become MOTU in February.
<blueyed> Please let me be part of this wonderful team :)
<blueyed> questions? :)
<Riddell> I've seen a good number of patches ceom from blueyed, which is very welcome
<Hans_> Questions? No, Kubuntu is running! :-]
<apachelogger_> :P
<apachelogger_> unless someone broke it
<Hans_> It runs!
<apachelogger_> blueyed: what, in your opinion, makes kubuntu the best KDE based distro?
<Hans_> No viruses...
<Hans_> Wherefore i need a bluescreen?
<nosredna_ekim> Hans_: this is a dev meeting, please stay on tpic
<Riddell> blueyed: I see you're in 5-a-day, how is that going?
<blueyed> apachelogger_: well, I can help out with it.. ;) I also like that we provide both 3.5 and 4.0 (which I'm using)
<Hans_> Oh... *searching his glasses
<apachelogger_> nosredna_ekim: I am doing karaoke, how much more off topic can it be? :P
<blueyed> Riddell: quite good, see the stats.
<apachelogger_> blueyed: any future plans for Kubuntu?
<Riddell> blueyed: do you actually manage 5 bug triages each day?
<hydrogen> if your answer does not include hugs apachelogger will not be happy.
<apachelogger_> yeah
<blueyed> apachelogger_: nothing in particular, bug^Whug fixing.. ;)
<apachelogger_> very good :D
<blueyed> Riddell: yes, 5 a day at least..
<Riddell> I'm impressed
<blueyed> I'm currently looking at fixing virtualbox-ose, which can be used to run Kubuntu in it.. :)
 * apachelogger_ never gets above 3
<Riddell> +1 from me for lots of bug work
<Riddell> we don't really need a vote though since you're already an ubuntu member
<blueyed> yep
<Riddell> Hobbsee: got a vote anyway?
<jpatrick> +1 cheer from me :) (even if I can't vote)
<daSKreech> apachelogger_: returning hug love?
 * alleeHol thumb up
<apachelogger_> hm
<apachelogger_> +1 for using KDE and the hugs
<apachelogger_> daSKreech: more like neverending
<Riddell> blueyed: thanks for coming along, welcome to kubuntu membership (I guess Hobbsee fell asleep)
<Riddell> Czessi: about?
<Hobbsee> +1
 * Hobbsee was searching for missing money, sorry
 * apachelogger_ gives Hobbsee a cup of coffee
<Riddell> ah, groovy
<Czessi> My name ist Marcus Czeslinski and was bor in June 1978, Germany/Berlin. I work for Kubuntu, especially Kubuntu Germany, since september 2005. In real live I id nothing with computers/linux.
<blueyed> Thanks! And hugs!
 * Hobbsee doesn't drink coffee :P
<Czessi> I'll willl become a Kubuntu members because my next step ist to become a MOTU, but still no time in this monemt. More about my work is listet on my wiki page https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Czessi
<daSKreech> Riddell: From all that waking up she did?
<Hobbsee> yay, Czessi is back!
<Czessi> questions?
 * apachelogger_ takes the coffee away and gives Hobbsee a cup of green tea
 * Hobbsee doesnt' drink that either.  better give me pineapple juice, water, or coke.
<seele> mmm.. tea
 * Hobbsee hands the tea to seele
<seele> danke
 * apachelogger_ gives Hobbsee a coke light
<apachelogger_> we need a bar in here :P
<Riddell> Czessi: how is kubuntu-de doing and how is the relationship with ubuntu-de?
 * \sh cheers Czessi 
<Hobbsee> Czessi: do you still run your third party repo?
<Hobbsee> apachelogger_: !! light? !!
<mhb> emonkey cheered for Czessi, but he fell asleep, so he couldn't say it himself
<MPS|afk> apachelogger_: what about kubine as a barkeeper :D ;)
<Hans_> Have a good night and bye! :-)
<apachelogger_> Czessi: you have been around for a while, what took you so long to consider membership?
 * Nightrose cheers for Czessi since he does excellent work at kubuntu-de
<apachelogger_> MPS|afk: kubine is overrated
<nosredna_ekim> ah... have to go eat... i'll read jpatricks notes and the logs:)
<MPS|afk> apachelogger_: :D
<Czessi> kubuntu-de supports the german kubuntu users an will try to get the people involved in kubuntu-de and kubuntu
<Czessi> at events we work fine togeathe with ubuntu-de
 * MPS|afk is going to bed now. have fun
<apachelogger_> MPS|afk: good night
<MPS|afk> theakki: moinsen tt ;)
<theakki> MPS:moin
<Czessi> next time is planned an entry page for all the german ubuntu and kubuntu sites
<MPS|afk> theakki: bin trozdem pennen. bis nachert
<Czessi> to the question from Hobbsee
<theakki> mps: i denke du bist off
<Czessi> When I switched from Debian SID to Kubuntu 5.04 I missing always the latest Amarok, Kaffeine and K3b packages. That the begin of my packaging work. Some month later Riddell has launched the repositories at kubuntu.org. But there still lack of some futures in this packages (like libtunepimp with mp3 support or k3b with dvd ripping support) and so I enlarge my repository. Now the repository is dead because the Kubuntu.org or
<Czessi> the Kubuntu ppa packages are great and I have no time for packaging in this moment.:(  When I've more time for packaging I'll upload to Ubuntu directly and hopefully become a MOTU.
<apachelogger_> hm, MOTUs ftw!
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<Czessi> the question from apachelogger_  ...
<yuriy> hi
<Czessi> my english is very bad and so i have some panic to write in english
<apachelogger_> learning by doing :)
<Czessi> oh yes :)
<apachelogger_> Czessi: future plans for Kubuntu?
<apachelogger_> besides becoming a MOTU
<Hobbsee> Czessi: it's fine, for a german :)
 * txwikinger cheers for Czessi. He does a lot for the Kubuntu-de.org site
<Hobbsee> (seeing as they tend to have a fairly whacky sense of english anyway)
<Czessi> Hobbsee: thanks ;)
 * Hobbsee runs away from all the germans in the room
 * neversfelde|mobi too
<neversfelde|mobi> Czessi is an allround kubuntu supporter. He looks after the kubuntu-de.org main portal, he is around at every "free software event" in germany and manages our booth and in addition he coordinates german speaking community. Marcus is absolutely essential for kubuntu-de.org project, but there is one mistake:
<neversfelde|mobi> The "c" in his name Marcus, maybe he should rename himself to MarKus :D
<Nightrose> haha Hobbsee
 * apachelogger_ takes the coke light away from Hobbsee
<fat-head> heya
 * Nightrose puts away the cookies she had for Hobbsee
<Nightrose> :P
<fat-head> this strictly kde ?
 * txwikinger wonders what Hobsee has against Germans
<txwikinger> Hobbsee even
 * daSKreech applies for said Kookies
 * blizzzek cheers for Czessi and his work for kubuntu-de and his fine organization for events as linuxtag
<Riddell> Czessi gets +1 from me for great community work and I look forward to him becoming MOTU
<Czessi> future plans: packages and fix bugs are good things but i think kubuntu need more promotion. i see that we have in future some good marketing stuff
<Hobbsee> txwikinger: nothing.  in fact, i even speak al ittle german.  i just know tha tthey often don't speak english (grammar-wise) well, as it's so different to german.  the italians are worse, though.
 * Nightrose hands the Kookies to daSKreech
<Hobbsee> +1 Czessi from here too
<apachelogger_> +1 for packaging love, kubuntu support and the event promotion
<\sh> Riddell: you will get a second apachelogger_ ;)
<daSKreech> Whoot!
<apachelogger_> breaking KDE every once in a while? :P
 * daSKreech gets stuffed
<Riddell> Czessi: we will need to wait for a third Kubuntu Council member to confirm the vote, but its looking good, congratulations
<\sh> apachelogger_: bah...fixing your breaks ;)
<Czessi> thanks
 * Hobbsee curses launchpad.
<Hobbsee> forgot to log in the second time.
<apachelogger_> \sh: breaks are what makes using latest dev series interessting IMO ;P
<Riddell> anyone else going for membership?
<Riddell> then apachelogger_ has an agenda item
<Hobbsee> and i do, at the end.
 * neversfelde|mobi pokes txwikinger
 * genii puts on another pot of coffee
<txwikinger> neversfelde|mobi: yes
<apachelogger_> eean suggested some weeks ago to make dragonplayer the default player for KDE 4
<apachelogger_> I guess eean or mxcl are going to give us some thoughts why that is a good idea
<mxcl> hello
<Riddell> eean is in luck, it already is :)
<mxcl> good decision :)
<apachelogger_> we just need to keep it that way ;-)
<Riddell> however that could change in future releases
<daSKreech> so does that clear up the agenda?
<Hobbsee> why not amarok?
<apachelogger_> Oo
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I presume this is for video
<daSKreech> Amarok doesn't exist?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: ahhhh....
<Riddell> mxcl: are there plans for embedded dragonplayer in konqueror?
<mxcl> dragon is a nice just works, simple, sensible defaults video player, I'm sure eean will keep it that way
<eean> Riddell: yes
<mxcl> Riddell: codeine had that, so I assume eean is just being lazy in not having a kpart yet
<eean> it is a kpart ;)
<eean> already
<eean> the plan is adding the javascript support
<mxcl> I take it back.. :)
<daSKreech> mxcl: Or you were lazy for not checking :)
<Riddell> eean: so will it work with bbc.co.uk for example (my main use case)
<mxcl> daSKreech: guilty indeed
<eean> so that it can be useful for something (by pretending to be quicktime or wmp)
<Riddell> eean: we recently added automatic codec install to kaffine in KDE 3, can that be added to dragon?
<yuriy> i coulda sworn i had dragonplayer embedded in konqueror yesterday... didn't work too well though
<eean> Riddell: well I added that support to Amarok, so sure :)
 * apachelogger_ cheers
<eean> yuriy: yea that sounds about right
<alleeHol> Riddell: when phonon will uses gstreamer don't we get codec install for free?
<\sh> eean: what about rtmp(s) support, to have a native player != flash? ;)
<Riddell> alleeHol: not honestly sure
<Hobbsee> hm, nice pink desktop
<eean> \sh: well that's up to the phonon backend
<eean> I'm not even sure what rtmp is exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's a phonon issue
<eean> :)
<apachelogger_> alleeHol: I think that would currently pull in a lot of gnome dependencies
<nixternal> bah
<\sh> eean: flv is flash media server videos ;)
<apachelogger_> nixternal: go do your votes!
<Riddell> eean: I noticed dragonplayer doesn't play multiple files when I start them on the command line, is that deliberate?
<\sh> eean: and hopefully not phonons part of being a video container format ;)
<nixternal> Riddell: +1 on blueyed
<eean> Riddell: yes, there's no playlist support
<\sh> eean: and rtmp is adobes streaming protocol
<nixternal> Riddell: +1 Czessi
<daSKreech> So if I call dragonplayer file1.ext file2.ext it only plays on?
<Riddell> well done to blueyed and Czessi
<apachelogger_> Czessi: congrats *hug*
<eean> Riddell: part of keeping simple
<Czessi> thanks a lot :)
<eean> Daviey: yes
<eean> erm
<eean> daSKreech: yes
<\sh> eean: you can get more infos about it on http://osflash.org/red5 (which is an OSS rtmp streaming server)
<nixternal> congrats blueyed and Czessi! welcome!
<neversfelde|mobi> Czessi: congrats
 * Czessi spend some virtual beer
<daSKreech> eean: what if I drag and drop a folder on it
<eean> \sh: heh seriously, its not even a phonon issue, it's a gstreamer, xine issue
<nixternal> sorry about being late
<\sh> Czessi: blueyed congrats :)
<Hobbsee> hi vistalover
<Nightrose> congrats Czessi and blueyed
<neversfelde|mobi> congrats blueyed
<blueyed> thanks :)
 * apachelogger_ gives blueyed some cookies
<\sh> finally czessi made it :) cool...something to celebrate during linuxtag :)
<Riddell> eean: and presumably it plays DVDs?
<eean> \sh: dragon player is a few thousnd lines of code on top of a very large stack of multimedia code that someone had to write
<yuriy> congratulations Czessi and blueyed !
<eean> Riddell: yep
<Hobbsee> is jussi01 really not amember yet?
<asobi> hmm, i like playlist support...
<Riddell> eean: do you have an opinion on xine vs gstreamer?
<apachelogger_> Riddell: it's actually using solid, so it will autodetect which drive to use when you got 2 drives :D
<eean> Riddell: well right now it requires xine, I'm working with phonon to remove this
<mxcl> playlists and video are not generally desired by the 90th percentile
<\sh> eean: good then :)
<nixternal> heh, xine nor gstreamer works for me...the only app I can watch videos on is MPlayer, everything else is broken
<eean> Riddell: already added subtitle support to phonon, now just need dvd menu support
<Hobbsee> bah.  Riddell beat me.
<asobi> whaaaaaaaaaaa? playlists are awesome
<daSKreech>  nixternal cause you are installing them on vista!
 * daSKreech ducks
<Riddell> eean: I think that's all, it's already on the KDE 4 CD as I say, thanks for a useful app and I'm looking forward to it playing news.bbc.co.uk videos
<mxcl> asobi: welcome to the 5th percentile
<eean> Riddell: heh ok :)
 * apachelogger_ thanks eean and mxcl
<\sh> time to hit the bed
<Riddell> Hobbsee has an agenda item?
<apachelogger_> \sh: nini
<Nightrose> nini \sh
<Riddell> eean: oh, have you had seele or the like look it over for user testing?
<mxcl> oh and a pleasure :)
<seele> not me
<eean> Riddell: no. but I consider mxcl to be a UI genius. ;)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: once launchpad gets their act in gear, there will be a mailing list for kubuntu-members-kde4, instead of going to my inbox.
<Hobbsee> so this is a warning to people to sign up for it, when it's done.
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I assume you will let us know when it is ready to sign up for?
<Hobbsee> i don't know when it will actually get done, as iirc it's been over a week already, and they say they turn it around in a couple of days normally.
<nixternal> hahaha, sorry
<Hobbsee> nixternal: yeah.  but i only check every once in a while myself, as i doubt i get email over it.
 * Hobbsee has asked for an ETA recently, but got no response, due to time of day.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: and that'll be used for build notifications?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah, and anyone who emails it to communicate.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: would be nice to put bugmail on there too, i guess, isntead of spamming everyone in the team.
<Riddell> ok
<Riddell> hopefully that'll get set up soon
<Riddell> thanks Hobbsee
<Riddell> daSKreech had an agenda item?
<daSKreech> Debian is having KDE 4.1 alpha packages then a set of regular packages after that tracking trunk
<nixternal> daSKreech: where are they storing them?
<daSKreech> I had asked a few times for packages to track trunk but it's not an easy task
<daSKreech> nixternal: servers I'd guess ?
<daSKreech> I didn't ask I can find out
<Riddell> its not a hard task, its just time consuming
<nixternal> daSKreech: where did they announce this at?
<Riddell> and we already have two KDE versions to look after
<daSKreech> would it make sense for us to work with them?
<daSKreech> nixternal: They didn't I asked on irc.debian
<nixternal> daSKreech: still, we have to change 99% of what Debian does
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: just got an email about the new list - so I guess it is up and running
<Riddell> if someone wants to compile 4.1 packages for hardy or even gutsy, by all means do
<daSKreech> nixternal: 99% sounds high
<daSKreech> ;-)
<Riddell> I expect in Intepid we'll get a lot closer to Debian again if we go for /usr
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: ah ha.  my whining in #launchpad did something, then.
<nixternal> Riddell: I have already started working on a script to attempt the automation of such a feat, but like you said, it is very time consuming
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: ;-)
<Hobbsee> Nightrose: the link doesn't work though.
<Nightrose> meh
<Riddell> daSKreech: you could just throw their sources at a PPA and see what sticks
<daSKreech> Would it make sense for us to work with them? We could probably help get out packages faster (the current rate I heard being thrown around was every 2 weeks)
 * Nightrose beats apachelogger_ with a large neon
<apachelogger_> ah
<apachelogger_> that wasn't nice :(
<daSKreech> and they could help provide scripts and unit tests for us
<Nightrose> sorry honey ;-)
<daSKreech> does PPA do unit testing?
<nixternal> Riddell: tried that, nothing sticks unfortunately
<apachelogger_> trunk roling is actually quite easy
<nixternal> ie. remember the decibel issue for one
<apachelogger_> if done properly
<apachelogger_> I am currently working on nightly builds for amarok
 * hydrogen also neons apachelogger_
<apachelogger_> including it's most important deps
<apachelogger_> like qt-copy and kdelibs
<daSKreech> apachelogger_: want to help bridge the debian packages?
<nixternal> I already have a qt-copy package completed
<apachelogger_> http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/User:Apachelogger/Project_Neon/Dev
<Riddell> daSKreech: we do already base our packages off theirs
<apachelogger_> if anyone is interessted
<daSKreech> Nightrose: Neon?
<Nightrose> daSKreech: see link
<Riddell> daSKreech: got any specific unit tests in mind?
<daSKreech> Riddell: I know. but we have no plans for a 4.1 run yet
<nixternal> we won't be dealing with 4.1 until after the first couple of months of Intrepid
<daSKreech> Riddell: I was hoping for meta packages to be tested for the sub packages install and a single run
<Riddell> nixternal: I'd expect we'd dive right in
<nixternal> we will do our 4.1 run on that more than likely and then backport when ready
<nixternal> Riddell: oh no doubt
<daSKreech> Yes but Alpha 4.1 ships I think on the same week of Hardy shipping
<daSKreech> let me check that
<Riddell> so we can start on alpha the next day :)
<nixternal> daSKreech: if you want to fire up a 4.1 ppa, like Riddell said, by all means go ahead
<apachelogger_> hum
<daSKreech> ok :)
<nixternal> I know I am a bit strapped for time currently to do so
<apachelogger_> Riddell: when do we have the party then? Oo
<Riddell> apachelogger_: the same night :)
<apachelogger_> that is going to be one awesome 4.1 start-off :D
 * nixternal has to go eat dinner...back in a few...will read scrollback
<daSKreech> I guess it would make more sense for me to do a gusty ppa since there are plans for interpid ?
<daSKreech> Intrepid
<Riddell> daSKreech: hardy
<daSKreech> -->_<-- sorry hardy
<Riddell> with beta out tomorrow everyone should be onto hardy now
<Riddell> has everyone been doing beta testing???
 * Nightrose has but will keep her gutsy for another week or two ;-)
 * apachelogger_ has been doing alpha fixing and hopes that was good enough so that there is no need for beta testing
<daSKreech> Kinda :)
<Riddell> we need more gutsy -> hardy upgrade testing
<daSKreech> I reinstalled my machine with hardy but I have KDE4 pure on it
<Nightrose> Riddell: will do when I get back from visiting my family - is that good enough?
<Nightrose> think monday or tuesday
<Riddell> Nightrose: well beta is out tomorrow, but all testing is good
<Nightrose> will be sitting in a train tomorrow ;-)
<Riddell> nixternal: did I see you were doing release notes?
<neversfelde|mobi> is testing in a virtual box good enough, or should I do this on a real machine?
<Riddell> neversfelde|mobi: virtual box is fine
<neversfelde|mobi> Riddell: will do some testing then
<neversfelde|mobi> but tomorrow, gn8
<daSKreech> night
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: best scenario would be with all kde packages installed
<Czessi> i will reinstall my system and i can test on my real system
<calc> Riddell: don't forgot dapper->hardy as well ;-)
<Riddell> any other agenda iteams?
<neversfelde|mobi> apachelogger_: k, is there a way to easy install all kde packages?
 * txwikinger will do some testing too
<calc> Riddell: or is hardy not a LTS for kubuntu?
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: just search in adept for KDE and install everything that turns up ;-)
<Riddell> calc: its not but we should still test that since people will be doing it anyway
<apachelogger_> calc: no, it is not
<calc> Riddell: ah ok :)
<apachelogger_> I have a dapper VBox here
<apachelogger_> so I can test that
<neversfelde|mobi> apachelogger_: that isn't as easy as I hoped. :)
<Riddell> apachelogger_: you'd need to use update-manager
<calc> Riddell: yea people might end up assuming it will work since kubuntu and ubuntu are so closely related
<apachelogger_> Riddell: k
<apachelogger_> neversfelde|mobi: pfft :P
 * awen_ digs out his old dapper cd for testing
<Riddell> if no other agenda items then hugs to all the beta testers and thanks for coming
<seele> 'night all
<Nightrose> Hobbsee: you can subscribe on launchpad though - just did that
<Riddell> oh yuriy had an item
<yuriy> i was wondering if it would be possible to get the new gtk-qt-engine into hardy
<yuriy> blueyed tried packaging it but got stuck on something
<apachelogger_> I guess it would need a FFe
<blueyed> I could invest some more time into it, but I think others might be more experienced with kde packaging.. See also bug 188415 ..
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188415 in gtk-qt-engine "GTK themes doesn't work properly in KDE4" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188415
<Riddell> yuriy: gtk-qt engine isn't the most stable of software, in my opinion it may well not be post-beta material
<Riddell> on the other hand gtk apps to look ugly currently, so if it works we could try
<apachelogger_> Riddell: gtk-qt-kde4 is working quite well here
<apachelogger_> some rendering glitches
<apachelogger_> but better than unthemed GTK IMO
<yuriy> apachelogger_: David's one or the other one off kde-look?
<apachelogger_> kde-look
<blueyed> Have you tried running gtk apps with GTK2_RC_FILES unset, or from krunner?
<yuriy> i haven't tried yet, but that just makes it run with the GTK theme right?
<yuriy> not ideal, but would be better (and an easy solution) than having them unthemed at all
<dasKreech> so we have to wait till luscious leopard to test LTS -> LTS ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-20
<nixternal> Riddell: yes I am doing release notes
<nixternal> I have to tweak my screenshots and then upload them, and that will be that
<nixternal> I kind of changed the way I did release notes this route, so take a look at them and let me know what you think
<Riddell> yuriy: so get it packaged and we can add it easily enough
<nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Beta/Kubuntu
<blueyed> apachelogger_: have you packaged gtk-qt-engine already?
<apachelogger_> nope
<blueyed> just installed?
<apachelogger_> yeah
<apachelogger_> blueyed: you did package it?
<yuriy> are you talking about the same things?
<dasKreech> KDE 4.1 alpha and Hardy relelase are not the same week they are 5 days apart
<blueyed> Can you look at it maybe? I've tried it, but build fails..
<apachelogger_> just wanted to suggest that :P
<blueyed> apachelogger_: great!
<yuriy> apachelogger_, blueyed: http://gtk-qt.ecs.soton.ac.uk/index.php and http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/gtk-kde4?content=74689 i mean
<yuriy> i was talking about the former
<blueyed> yuriy: yep, that's the one I've tried (and uscan pulled in)
<apachelogger_> yuriy: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/GTK-QT+Theme+Engine?content=9714
<apachelogger_> so we were talking about the same :P
<apachelogger_> blueyed: do you have the packaging uploades somewhere?
<blueyed> apachelogger_: not yet, but will do so now..
<apachelogger_> k
<dasKreech> rid7\
<dasKreech> 858479\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\+ f5
<dasKreech> \
<dasKreech> 45
<dasKreech> 55
<dasKreech> 23+
<dasKreech> 654789++++++
<dasKreech> sorry my dog wanted to join in
<dasKreech> Riddell: were 4.1 alpha packages planned anyway?
<blueyed> apachelogger_: http://www.codeprobe.de/spool/debian/gtk-qt-engine_1.1-0ubuntu1.dsc - but it may be in very bad shape.. ;)
<apachelogger_> blueyed: what problems did you have?
<dasKreech> Riddell: For hardy of course
<blueyed> apachelogger_: build failure.. something undefined IIRC, see http://www.codeprobe.de/spool/debian/gtk-qt-engine-build.log
<blueyed> couldn't find ui_searchpaths.h for some reason..
<apachelogger_> yeah
<apachelogger_> upstream issue
<apachelogger_> apparently it doesn't support out-of-source-builds
 * apachelogger_ diggs into the cmake files
<seb128> hey
<Hobbsee> hi seb128
<pitti> bonjour mes amis
<Keybuk> bonjour, Ã§a va?
<MacSlow> Mahlzeit allerseits!
<MacSlow> :)
<pedro_> porque no hablar en espaÃ±ol mejor?
<seb128> pitti: bonjour ;-)
<kwwii> servus
<MacSlow> pedro_, pure coincidence?! :)
<pedro_> MacSlow: seems so ;-)
 * mvo waves
<seb128> hey mvo
<pedro_> hello mvo
<seb128> hey Hobbsee
<Keybuk> Riddell: awake?
<Riddell> hi
<MacSlow> hey seb128, kwwii, Riddell
 * seele waves
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> let's begin
<tedg> Good $(time of day in your timezone) everyone.
<mvo> hey everybody! I will be on vacation next week, if there is anything urgent, please call my landline (or mobile)
<MacSlow> ok
<Keybuk> I'll also be on holiday next week, anything urgent, please talk to pitti or mdz
<seb128> tomorrow and monday are local and national holidaus
<seb128> holidays
<pitti> mine too
<pedro_> tomorrow is also holiday here
<seb128> Keybuk: no catchup calls then I expect?
<pitti> we're all slackers :)
<kwwii> fri and mon here as well
 * Riddell working tomorrow
<Keybuk> Riddell: oh?
<MacSlow> indeed... but I skip those very likely... got some catchup to do due to cebit and gtk+-hackfest :/
<seele> tomorrow is a holiday?
<Riddell> Keybuk: I took jan 2nd off
 * MacSlow should not have started the hardy-upgrade of his desktop an hour ago
<MacSlow> if I suddenly vanish you can guess why :)
<Keybuk> lol
<Keybuk> ok, onwards
<Keybuk> seb128: I turned one of your activity report notes into an agenda item
<Keybuk> (seb128) There is still quite some desktop glitches and annoyance but no real stopper, help to fix desktop milestoned bugs is welcome
<Keybuk> bugs are important :-)
<Keybuk> we're actually in pretty good shape as a team, but we could always do better
<Keybuk> who'd like to volunteer to help out?
<MacSlow> I assume not working effects-profile-recognition is one of them
<MacSlow> but I'm on that whole issue anyway
<pitti> well, shouldn't we all? :)
<pitti> I still have quite a bunch of bugs 'in progress', but I'm happy to help out with important ones
<Keybuk> pitti: kwwii isn't great at udev issues
<MacSlow> kwwii, btw... were you able to work on the second (scale) icon?
<Keybuk> and I've stolen MacSlow for other duties
<seb128> Keybuk: speaking about udev... ;-)
<kwwii> MacSlow: yeah, I'll get that to you soon, still not quite happy with it
<seb128> anyway
<Keybuk> but otherwise I'm happy if you want to assign bugs to people seb128 and nag them about it
<MacSlow> kwwii, ok
<Keybuk> seb128: it's damned hard to fix that bug - I've fixed it for people doing gutsy->hardy
<Keybuk> but for people who actually got hit during an upgrade through hardy, it's hard to fix
<kwwii> udev is certainly not my forte :-)
<seb128> Keybuk: ok
<Keybuk> since the vital information gets lost
<Keybuk> (and I've fixed it for fresh hardy installs)
<seb128> if people want to look to the desktop bugs issue I've noted, I use the desktop-bugs team as assignee and milestone those ubuntu-8.04
<mvo> I will post upgrade issue bugs and milestone them for 8.04
<Keybuk> seb128: are there any that you think particular people would be good at?
<pitti> seb128: feel free to assing some to me if you want help with them (and which I can actually help with :) )
<seb128> Keybuk: there is some compiz integration issue where mvo or MacSlow could help I guess, and pitti is likely good for gvfs, hal, etc issues ;-)
<seb128> pitti: ok, noted, thanks
<Keybuk> seb128: wrt to Compiz, I am hopeful that I'll have approval today for a short-term contract with one of the upstream guys
<Keybuk> similar to what we've done with Gicmo
<pitti> right, I'm currently concentrating on hal issues since there are still quite some hw specific issues I'd like to see fixed
<seb128> Keybuk: ah, that's good news
<pitti> seb128: gvfs sounds good to me
<seb128> pitti: we already have gicmo helping on gvfs so there is not too much to do but I might ping you on some of the remaining integration bit with nautilus, gvm, etc
<seb128> well, there is lot to do
<MacSlow> btw... having a new/default use also be part of group "disk", what package would that end up in?
<pitti> seb128: (like the floppy b0rkage)
<Keybuk> MacSlow: they shouldn't be
<seb128> but having gicmo is already good help there ;-)
<pitti> MacSlow: argh, ho
<pitti> no, I mean
<Keybuk> MacSlow: disk is a scary group
<pitti> disk == root
<MacSlow> but then /dev/raw1394 needs some other ownership
<MacSlow> because without that firewire-capture from a DV-cam in kino does not work
<pitti> MacSlow: no, it shouldn't be accessible for users
<pitti> we had that discussion years ago
<MacSlow> I see
<Keybuk> MacSlow: no, the kernel's ieee1394 subsystem needs a kicking
<MacSlow> ok well
<pitti> /dev/video1394 should be fixed to do what app devs want
<Keybuk> firewire devices can execute code on the host processor
<Keybuk> so raw access to all firewire devices as any user means you have root
<Keybuk> anyway, topic
<Keybuk> ACTION: seb128 to hand out desktop team bugs to people as necessary
<Keybuk> ACTION: Keybuk to get contract for compiz bugs sorted
<Keybuk> ACTION: pitti, mvo, tedg to assist with desktop bugs
 * seb128 likes those action items ;-)
<mvo> I will do my best - I'm also looking into upgrade issues currently
<pitti> seb128: bug fix slave at your service!
 * pitti salutes
 * seb128 hugs mvo pitti
<Keybuk> ok, next one
<Keybuk> #
<Keybuk> (seb128) There has been some discussion about menus, non-consistent labeling (using the application name or not in the title) and system, preferences going over the bottom panel on a 1027x768 screen (maybe we should consider moving things to the applications, system tools category, we tried to not list it because it's confusing but you quickly get one anyway when installing extra softwares)
<pitti> seb128: I dont' quite understand how system-tools moving helps with preferences
<pitti> they are in admin
<pitti> and preferences >> admin
<pitti> I do agree, though, that the prefs menu is horrible
<pitti> takes ages to find something there
<seb128> pitti: well, there is different issues there
<seb128> - inconsistant labelling
<seb128> - system tools which comes back quickly, not sure if that's worth trying to mask it in the default installation
<seb128> - and preferences which has too many items (that one has been discussed several times at UDS without any obvious solution)
<seb128> about the first one
<seb128> I know it's late now, but it worth trying to fix the consistency now?
<pitti> ah, you mean apps -> system tools, not gnome-system-tools, sorry
<Keybuk> there's been a long thread about this on devel-discuss recently
<seb128> I know we had jane reviewing those before dapper and we did some cleanup by then
<Keybuk> did that come to any useful conclusions?
<seb128> Keybuk: not really no
<seb128> the discussion was not really focussed
<seb128> rather lot of ideas from different users
<seb128> nothing new nor really useful though
<Keybuk> do you have any ideas? :)
<seb128> as said there is different points there
<seb128> let's tackle the first one which should be easy
<mvo> is your suggestion to break the UI freeze and relabel them?
<seb128> do we want to have a review and fix labels to be consistent now?
<seb128> or is it late?
<seb128> mvo: yes, we have things like "transmission" which give no indication of what the thing is doing
<pitti> tricky for translations, but since we can clean them up step by step, it would be nice to do it
<Keybuk> translators also have some grace this time in the form of 8.04.1
<pitti> I don't think that the default install is that bad, maybe three or four things which really need improvement?
<seb128> pitti: right
<seb128> one of the issues users had is "Video Player" against "Rhythmbox Music Player"
<pitti> seb128: indeed, transmission is the only one which really sticks out
<seb128> ie, some items have software names, some other don't
<pitti> seb128: tools doesn't have any app names, but at least consistently
<pitti> and they don't really have names
<pitti> but within a menu it should be consistent, yes
<pitti> seb128: the vnc viewer thingy, that's vino or so, right?
<pitti> it shuold get a name, too, perhaps?
<seb128> vinagre
<pitti> that, and transmission, and the net menu would be fine
<kwwii> did someone say viagra?
<pitti> seb128: system tools> could we add the gnome system monitor and thus make it a little less hilarious?
<pitti> then there are at least two things inside, and I don't think we can permanently ban the menu anyway
<Keybuk> pitti: isn't that under System->Admin at the moment?
 * pitti has 4 items in apps -> system tools
<seb128> pitti: well, that was my second point, either we still try to mask it in the default install or not
<pitti> Keybuk: no, AFAIK it's just an applet you can add?
<seb128> I think it's pointless
<pitti> seb128: I agree
<seb128> as soon as you install vmware, virt-manager, etc you get it back anyway
<seb128> and it looks stupid because there is only one or two items there
<pitti> and I don't really see where else to put hwtest
<pitti> and gnome-system-monitor is really useful IMHO
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so
<pitti> if nothing else, it gives you some system/ram info for bug reports
<pitti> but you can kill runaway processes, etc.
<seb128> - let's fix the labelling of the menu items which are not right and warn translators about the change
<seb128> - and let's use applications, system tools again
<seb128> anybody against that?
<pitti> deal
<MacSlow> nope
<Keybuk> seems fine to me
<seb128> ok, preferences menu having too many items is not something we will fix this cycle
<seb128> we should consider switching to gnome-control-center shell or something at some point
<seb128> but that's later material
<MacSlow> seb128, indeed
<pitti> it's a small point, but we could remove the network manager editor
<mvo> ok
<seb128> pitti: yeah, I want to have the menu fitting on 1024x768, so I'll make sure we drop one item from the list or move it somewhere else
<pitti> ah, if one is enough, then IMHO we should kill nm-editor
<seb128> Keybuk: we are done with this one, thanks, you can move to next item ;-)
<pitti> you can get the same from the nm-applet
<pitti> and it's ominous enough anyway
<seb128> pitti: right, asac didn't disagree to that and I milestoned the bug
<Keybuk> ok :)
<Keybuk> sounds like you're agreed
<Keybuk> (pitti) solving bug #198808; in essence: do we rather (potentially) break suspend/resume on some machines which worked with gusty, or don't fix it for a lot of current popular and any future hardware?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 198808 in hal "[Hardy] HAL breaks pm-utils quirks and resuming" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198808
<seb128> pitti: I'm not sure to understand why we change the behaviour over upstream
<tedg> Yeah, that one is odd.  Did you find out why the logic was reversed?
<seb128> but I think it would make relation with upstream, etc easier to no diverge
<Keybuk> pitti: what does the patch do?
<pitti> right, I'm currently discussing this with mjg59, but I'm still not 100% clear why we need this silly patch
<pitti> in short, hal has a patch which effectively reverses the default quirks we use for suspend/resume
<pitti> i. e. if we don't have an explicit FDI rule for a particular laptop, upstream assumes 'no quirks'
<pitti> while our patch from mjg59 assumes 'all quirks'
<pitti> but a lot of machines break if you actually use 'all quirks'
<pitti> the rationale, as given by mjg59, was to maintain behavioural compatibility to what acpi-support did in previous releases
<pitti> seb128: exactly my point
<pitti> since with that, we break current and future models
<pitti> -[ "$HAL_PROP_POWER_MANAGEMENT_QUIRK_DPMS_ON" = "true" ] && QUIRKS="$QUIRKS --quirk-dpms-on"
<pitti> +[ "$HAL_PROP_POWER_MANAGEMENT_QUIRK_DPMS_ON" != "false" ] && QUIRKS="$QUIRKS --quirk-dpms-on"
<Keybuk> pitti: do we have any data on whether things are better with or without the patch?
<pitti> ^ like that, for all existing quirks
<pitti> i. e. if $VAR is empty, it defaults to 'use quirk'
<pitti> Keybuk: I don't at least
<seb128> well, the rest of the world is improving quirks
<seb128> I really think we should work in this direction with them
<pitti> I wish this would have come to me much earlier
<Keybuk> pitti: does your laptop work without the patch? :)
<pitti> then I would have reverted it immediately and sorted out the remaining problematic models with positive quirks
<pitti> Keybuk: haven't even tried yet (discussion started yesterday, too much CD testing to do, sorry)
<tedg> The only thing is I think we should leave it in for LTS and then change it early in Intrepid.
<seb128> I don't think we should
<tedg> It's a pretty big change for lots of folks.
<seb128> other distros are using the upstream things and are not known to be buggier than ubuntu afaik
<pitti> TBH I think that patch was an absolutely wrong idea in the first place
<pitti> but it wasn't documented, so I never investigated until I saw that bug
<pitti> and it already causes lots of bugs with hardware we have today
<Keybuk> err
<pitti> so it's a bit like 'damned if yuo do, damned if you don't"
<Keybuk> removing that patch makes suspend and resume work for me again
<Keybuk> (they've been broken for a while in hardy)
<Keybuk> like, actually, *really* well
<Keybuk> I'd be inclined to remove the patch for 8.04 and put it back for 8.04.1 if things really go bad
<pitti> Keybuk: with the patch it works on mine, except that STD causes the VTs to break
<Keybuk> (or work with upstream to fix the things broken)
<pitti> Keybuk: I'd rather stuff new FDIs into -updates TBH
<pitti> for particular modesl
<Keybuk> pitti: with patch on mine, compiz crashes on resume, keyboard often fails, and VTs don't switch
<seb128> I would be in favor of dropping it now
<Keybuk> without the patch, I just did 5 cycles without problem
<seb128> we still have some weeks until 8.04
<seb128> and we can revert if we get really bad feedback
<MacSlow> re
<pitti> I feel the same actually
<MacSlow> sorry... that upgrade didn't work out as planned
<pitti> but really, that patch is a PITA to maintain (not the patch itself, of course, but the consequences)
<pitti> MacSlow: n-m restarting? :-)
<Keybuk> agree; without the patch, putting quirks back where needed is a simple matter of FDI
<pitti> ^ and absolutely appropriate for SRU, too
<pitti> since it selects precise HW models
<pitti> and hal-info is no code at all
<pitti> but there is no chance we can revert the patch post-release
<Keybuk> ACTION: pitti to remove the patch and keep an eye on incoming bugs to identify needed quirks
<pitti> since then we'd break stable installs
<MacSlow> partly... and using a trackpoint-mouse for more than two weeks did strange things to my hand-eye coordination using a normal mouse... thus hitting the reboot button although I "aimed" for the cancel-button
 * pitti bounces
<Keybuk> MacSlow: so not a _software_ bug then? :)
<pitti> chuckle
<Keybuk> though I'm sure mpt would say one button should be bigger
<pitti> HW usability bug
<MacSlow> pebkac
<MacSlow> indeed
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> next item
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<mvo> MacSlow: no other issues during the upgrade? that is good
<MacSlow> hm... gtk-window-decorator looks odd
<Keybuk> seb128: bug #191451 seems to have your name against it for no easily discernible reason
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 191451 in m17n-db "Bad default choices for Vietnamese installation" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191451
<MacSlow> but I don't want to rule out me using nvidia's 169.12 driver here on my desktop box
<seb128> Keybuk: it has a gtk task
<Keybuk> seb128: is there something there you can do?
<Keybuk> seb128: it says Declined for Hardy
<seb128> Keybuk: I'm waiting for a reply to my mail
<Keybuk> ok
<seb128> Keybuk: the guy mailed me with explanations about the change
<seb128> that's basically a one liner change to gtk
 * Keybuk sets it to Incomplete
<Keybuk> seb128, Riddell: bug #159712
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159712 in serpentine "kde menu entry for 'Serpentine Audio CD Creator' has no icon" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159712
<seb128> I just want to know if that makes sense for debian so we can get it there and sync or if that's just a quick hack for hardy
<seb128> Keybuk: this bug should not be on the list and serpentine is universe now anyway
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> can you unsubscribe the sponsors team
<seb128> Keybuk: it's supperseded by bug #199277
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 199277 in serpentine "[needs-merge] serpentine_0.9-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199277
<seb128> Keybuk: done, and I've subscribed the universe sponsors
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #104553 - this doesn't seem to have an attached patch?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104553 in fontconfig "upgrade failed when fontconfig cache dirs are newer than system date" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104553
<mvo> Keybuk: it has a patch, but the patch is more a hack - I would rather want to see it fixed in fontconfig
<Keybuk> ok, not suitable for sponsoring then
<mvo> it is claimed to be fixed there, but I haven't managed to reproduce it yet
<Keybuk> can you unsubscribe the team, and turn off the patch checkbox for the patch
<mvo> (even with a old version)
<Keybuk> mvo: bug #87914 has a patch :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87914 in update-manager "Progress bar refers to "1 minutes" or "1 hours"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87914
<mvo> Keybuk: tricky to write a good ngettext() thing for this, I don't think the patch is quite there yet
<Keybuk> ok, unsubscribe the sponsors team and uncheck the patch checkbox
<mvo> will do
<Keybuk> (with anything on Daniel's list, if it can't be fixed by an immediate upload - it should not be on the list
<Keybuk> the entire point is that these are known good patches that just need uploading
<MacSlow> mvo, sofar only gtk-window-decorator gives my issues here
<Keybuk> if the patch isn't right, always unsubscribe the team and unmark it as a patch
<Keybuk> that way someone else won't upload it later)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> qa bug list
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html
<Keybuk> doesn't look like there's anything new there to me
<pitti> has it actually been updated since two weeks ago?
<Keybuk> it claims to be updated
<pedro_> yes it's updated
<Keybuk> the status are all correct fwict
<mvo> I think I read it in the activity report that it got updated
<pedro_> now there's less than last weeks
<Keybuk> pedro_: it'd be nice if it were obvious which were newly added
<Keybuk> (or if none were)
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> anything from activity reports need discussing?
<Keybuk> or any other business?
 * pitti hides an Easter egg
<pedro_> Keybuk: ok i'll talk with leann about it
 * kwwii goes back to work on gdm
<MacSlow> kwwii, btw... the new gdm-theme is nice
 * Keybuk heard kwwii's laugh of despair from here
<kwwii> MacSlow: thanks
<kwwii> lol
<MacSlow> Keybuk, kwwii: why... was the current gdm-theme any "battle"? :)
<pitti> Keybuk: enjoy your holiday next week!
<Keybuk> MacSlow: I was up until 2am last night "discussing" it with Mark
<MacSlow> Keybuk, sweet
<Keybuk> MacSlow: not so much
<MacSlow> Keybuk, kwwii: the "light from below"-look is cool there
<kwwii> MacSlow: well, wait and see what we end up with, then tell me you love it :p
<seb128> speaking about themes, what gtk is going to be used in hardy?
<Keybuk> seb128: ubuntu-looks
<seb128> gtk one
<kwwii> seb128: ubuntulooks
<seb128> bah
<MacSlow> okyday... I'll hold my breath
<MacSlow> kwwii, but it's murrine-based still, right?
<kwwii> seb128: we will look into changing it for +1 again
<kwwii> MacSlow: actually ubuntulooks is a fork of an older version of clearlooks
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> thanks all
<seb128> thank you Keybuk
<mvo> thanks Keybuk
<kwwii> thanks, bye
<pitti> thanks all
 * MacSlow goes and tries to get his prism54-based wifi-nic to work again after the upgrade
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-21
 * Czessi-m is away: Gone away for now.
 * Czessi-m is away: Gone away for now.
 * Czessi-m is back.
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 26 Mar 16:00: Server Team | 27 Mar 23:00: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-22
<Hobbsee> darn, clark fell over a copule of months ago, it looks like
 * Hobbsee wonders how long ago they were set
<jpatrick> *!*@gateway/tor/*!#ubuntu-ops -> opps, should be -proxy-users
<jpatrick> yay!
<Hobbsee> rotten chanserv.  it hates me.
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-03-23
<noober> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-16
<knome> somebody here for the cooperation meeting?
<knome> anybody for the cooperation meeting? let's start in a few minutes.
<cody-somerville> I'm here
 * charlie-tca waves
<knome> right, so anybody *not* from xubuntu here?
 * tgm4883 isn't from xubuntu
<knome> ok. let's wait for a few more minutes for people to arrive
<tgm4883> not sure what happens in this meeting, but Mythbuntu people are here
<knome> tgm4883, you can see the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
<tgm4883> knome, thanks
<knome> let's start then, shall we
<knome> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:05. The chair is knome.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<knome> So we're here to discuss about the things raised up in UDS Jaunty
<knome> We have a set of notes collected from the meeting on the wiki
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-cooperation
<knome> You can also see through the agenda we have today from the wiki
<knome> [TOPIC] Making and keeping contact lists up-to-date
<MootBot> New Topic:  Making and keeping contact lists up-to-date
<knome> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
<knome> there is a contact/team list in the ubuntu wiki, which happens to be quite outdated.
<knome> not all teams are even listed in it.
 * tgm4883 will get mythbuntu on there an up to date
<knome> what happens, when somebody wants to contact a team or several teams? where can he find the team leader contact information?
<knome> [ACTION] tgm4883 will add MythBuntu to the Teams list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tgm4883 will add MythBuntu to the Teams list
<knome> this is also not the only place where we have outdated information
<knome> however as we have so little people taking part, i'll send a mail about this to the ubuntu-devel mailing list.
<knome> [ACTION] knome mails ubuntu-devel@ ML about keeping the Teams list up-to-date
<MootBot> ACTION received:  knome mails ubuntu-devel@ ML about keeping the Teams list up-to-date
<knome> [TOPIC] Making functional teams healthy again
<MootBot> New Topic:  Making functional teams healthy again
<knome> there was also discussion about the unhealthy functional teams at uds
<knome> especially artwork team was raised up
<knome> i've been hanging aroud their IRC channel a while and i can't say it's unhealthy, but it's very ubuntu (desktop) centric.
<knome> there isn't really any conversation about the xubuntu, kubuntu or mythbuntu artwork
<knome> any ideas how to get cooperation working better?
<knome> how can we contact the artists within several flavor teams?
<Riddell> in kubuntu we are happy using KDE artwork for the most part
<tgm4883> well for the most part, mythbuntu artwork consists of themes for mythtv, which we have been having conversations about in our own channel
<tgm4883> We felt it better this way as mythtv themes have zero relevance in other distros
<knome> Riddell, what about countdown banners or wallpapers?
<Riddell> knome: wallpapers are from KDE.  countdown banners we're done separately before
<knome> tgm4883, i see your point there. we also develop and discuss about xubuntu artwork on our own channel, but i've asked for some feedback for them on the artwork channel
<knome> Riddell, right. have your artists followed the ubuntu-artwork list and looked at what they were doing with the banners
<knome> i feel the artwork channel should be a place to discuss every piece of artwork made
<knome> and for artists, a place to get feedback from other artists, not only developers
<knome> Riddell, tgm4883: can you think of pointing your artists to show off their stuff to ubuntu-artwork list or irc channel?
<knome> personally i'd like to see what's going on because we could greatly benefit from the work of others
<tgm4883> i'll point our art team to show their work in the ubuntu-artwork channel, there are only two members on that team so I don't guarentee that they will develop the themes in that channel though
<tgm4883> but i'll get them to at least show their work
<knome> [IDEA] Team leaders to encourage artists to show off their artwork in the artwork team IRC channel and/or mailing list
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Team leaders to encourage artists to show off their artwork in the artwork team IRC channel and/or mailing list
<knome> tgm4883, right. thanks. i think that's valuable.
<Riddell> knome: we don't have artists
<knome> Riddell, right. so you would greatly benefit if the artwrok team could work on several flavors rather than sticking to just one?
<knome> *the people in the artwork team
<knome> i remember somebody saying that ubuntu studio is quite full of artists and they don't have tasks to work on. maybe they could help you.
<knome> Riddell, do we agree? :)
<tgm4883> well if Riddell doesn't want there help, i'm sure we can find something for them to do ;)
<knome> right.
<knome> [ACTION] team leader to encourage artists to work cross-flavorwise.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  team leader to encourage artists to work cross-flavorwise.
<knome> [ACTION] Team leaders to inform the artwork team for job opporunities (Ubuntu Wanted)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Team leaders to inform the artwork team for job opporunities (Ubuntu Wanted)
<knome> somebody has any comments?
<knome> ok, let's move to the next item.
<knome> [TOPIC] Restarting art.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Restarting art.ubuntu.com
<knome> again, i'm referring to the UDS session
<knome> i don't think we can get really anywhere here as we don't have many artists here, so let's skip this topic if nobody wants to say anything?
<knome> [TOPIC] Mailing list for flavor cooperation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mailing list for flavor cooperation
<knome> again, i'm referring to UDS session...
<knome> when we had the session, we decided to set up a mailing list for all kind of cross-flavor information and cooperation things
<knome> Luis Guimera (luisbg) volunteered to create the list, but i don't know about the current state
<knome> [ACTION] knome to poke luisbg about the cooperation list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  knome to poke luisbg about the cooperation list
<knome> [TOPIC] Monthly coordination meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Monthly coordination meetings
<knome> we had a discussion about monthly coordination meetings like this with Emmet (persia)
<knome> i see quite a little sense to pick any dates here as we have such a lousy participation
<knome> i personally think we would benefit from this kinds of meetings
<knome> if we had enough people to participate and from different teams
<knome> any comments on this?
<cody-somerville> What would we talk about?
<knome> any arisen issues and needs for cooperation.
<knome> decisions which would affect other flavors
<knome> decisions meaning changing something in a package
<knome> i talked with robbie williamson from foundations and he also took note that they could try to inform about things maybe broken a bit better
<knome> the meeting could be a good place to discuss those
<knome> it's also valuable to know how things are coming up on a different flavor
<knome> maybe there is something they might need a helping hand but are not quite sure where to ask
<knome> if you look at the wiki page, there is also some issues that arose in the uds session
<knome> any comments?
<knome> right...
<knome> [ACTION] knome will talk with people and set up a new meeting for april if it seems worthwhile
<MootBot> ACTION received:  knome will talk with people and set up a new meeting for april if it seems worthwhile
<knome> [TOPIC] Any other arisen discussions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other arisen discussions
<knome> anything you want to say?
<knome> i talked with _MMA_ and i see this is something people have tried to get up earlier.
<knome> maybe we can't get it working now either or maybe we can.
<knome> let's end this meeting as it's starting to be a monologue.
<knome> thanks for participating and sorry it turned out that there was not much people to have discussions.
<knome> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:54.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-17
 * persia peers about
 * Hobbsee throws rotten tomatoes at persia
<Hobbsee> GOTCHA!
 * persia applies the handy uncursed towel (P)
<Hobbsee> er, what are you actually peering about for?
<persia> There was a rumor that the AsiaOceania RMB might meet now, when there might be quorum about.  Given the lack of others, I'm guessing the rumour was unfounded.
<persia> As a result, I expect the meeting will be held later, and don't know if we'll get quorum, as it will be late in Australia.
<MaWaLe> persia: the meeting is planned fot the 15UTC (on the wiki page)
<persia> MaWaLe, Indeed, that's what the wiki page says.  As I said, it was an apparently unfounded rumour.  So, 5 hours from now, I'll peer about again :)
<MaWaLe> hope that it'll be a quorum this time
<Technoviking> morning all
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> mdke and Burgundavia are not around and I guess mako is not up yet
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:01. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> it seems we have one agenda item today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Forums Council Re-Elections and New Members
<MootBot> New Topic:  Forums Council Re-Elections and New Members
 * dholbach needs a minute or two to get on top of the discussion :)
<sabdfl> arrgh, south african bandwidth
<ubuntugeek> :)
<dholbach> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation only applies partly, there's no real "team" connected to the "Forums Community"
<Technoviking> sabdfl: lagging here too, never heard of St. Patick day lag before:)
<sabdfl> usually, post-St Patrick's day lag :-)
<jussi01> *g*
<sabdfl> dholbach: i thought we agreed to create such a team?
<dholbach> sabdfl: there's https://launchpad.net/~forum-council/+members but there's no "members through Forum's participation" - I think I recall us saying that we revisit the decision in a few months of time again
<dholbach> sabdfl: IIRC the IRC and the Forums community did not like the idea much
<dholbach> Technoviking would know better than I do :)
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> i keep thinking we agreed it, because it's what i wanted, but that's not always true :-)
 * dholbach hugs sabdfl :)
<Technoviking> are you talk about a team for all forums members?
<dholbach> Technoviking: ubuntumembers through forums activity
<dholbach> so in the absence of such a team right now, it'd make sense for all CC members to review the nominations and cast a vote
<persia> Could perhaps the polity be all ubuntumembers?  Those inactive in the forums would likely abstain.
<sabdfl1> i.e., a team of folks who have made significant and sustained contributions to Ubuntu  *in the forums*
<nhandler> persia: That vote wouldn't be able to take place via IRC it would need to be on LP
<sabdfl1> i don't think there's a *requirement* for voting on LP
<sabdfl1> if there's an agreed, fair and safe voting mechanism in the forums, or the IRC world, communities can use that
<sabdfl1> for votes inside that domain, where people are comfortable with those tools
<nhandler> sabdfl: But if we allow all ubuntumembers to vote, it would be difficult to do it on irc (especially to enforce that only members vote)
<persia> And the polity needn't necessarily even vote, as long as the right polity is identified/
<sabdfl1> it's cross-team things that usually need LP
<sabdfl> sorry, with all the dropping off and reconnecting, i fear i'm not keeping up with the conversation
<nhandler> You didn't miss anything sabdfl
<dholbach> for now I think we should decouple the ubuntumembers-through-forums-activity from the new FC members discussion
<elmo> I agree
<Technoviking> I guess first thing is, is the CC ok with the Forums Council expanding to 7 members?
<elmo> I am
<dholbach> me too, it is a big responsibility and the FC will definitely benefit from more trusted Forums leader to be on board
<dholbach> sabdfl?
<Technoviking> must have dropped again
<dholbach> if we don't come to a conclusion in this meeting I'd suggest starting a new thread with all the voting options to the CC and set a cut-off date in 1-2 weeks so everybody has enough time to send in their vote
<dholbach> the FC election organisation thread got fairly long already and maybe it wasn't sufficiently clear what was expected of each member
<Technoviking> dholbach: sounds good
<dholbach> elmo, sabdfl: does that sound fair to you?
<elmo> dholbach: sounds good to me
<Technoviking> I will prepare it
<dholbach> thanks a lot Technoviking
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<persia> I'd just like to thank the CC for continuing the meeting schedule reliably over the past many months, regardless of DST changes, inconveniences of personal schedules, or other matters.
<dholbach> thanks persia, I'd like to give credit to Claire Newman who reminded me of the meeting dates when I did not think of them. :-)
<dholbach> ok seems we have no other business - thanks everybody
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:30.
 * dholbach will update the Team Report
<Technoviking> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> Technoviking: thank YOU
<sabdfl> argh. ftr, +1
<sabdfl> dholbach: ^ sorry for the lag
<dholbach> sabdfl: no worries - I think it's good if we get all votes of the CC for such an important decision
<sabdfl> me too
 * persia peers about
 * MaWaLe hoping that there'll be a quorum
<aamachu> hi
<hito_jp> hi
<Belutz> amachu, sorry for my long absence
<MaWaLe> hi amachu
<persia> hey Belutz
<Belutz> hi persia
<Belutz> persia, how things going?
<persia> Alright.  For you?
<Belutz> I'm alright too, thanks :)
<Belutz> just a lot of work to do
<Belutz> and i'm still in the office at 10pm now :D
<nijaba> @paris
<sommer> hey all
<persia> nijaba, The bot can't process the google calendar, and so doesn't track the schedule.  Checkhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<persia> Server Team meeting is at 16:00 UTC, which is in an hour
<nijaba> oki, ta persia
<aamachu> Belutz: you there :-)
<aamachu> great the time change worked?
<Belutz> amachu, i'm here :D
<aamachu> persia: yes.
<aamachu> so let me check for one more person
<aamachu> elky: Hey are you there?
<Belutz> amachu, maybe it's not working for our friend in australia
<Belutz> it's probably 2am in there
<aamachu> lifeless: ?
<aamachu> Belutz: Yes. persia had commented with his concerns on that
<b0i_kut3^^> hello
<aamachu> Belutz: got to know about zakame?
<Belutz> amachu, no i'm not
<aamachu> persia: we still need one.
<persia> aamachu, Indeed.  If zakame doesn't join us, I think we won't reach quorum.
<mathiaz> Hello all - for those attending the Ubuntu Server Team we'll move to #ubuntu-server
<nealmcb> hmmm - the fridge says 16:00 UTC for server team meeting, but Mathias said we'd changed to 15:00
<khanh_coltech> can i become Ubuntu member?
<persia> nealmcb, It seems to be related to some confusion based on some governments insistence that there should be changes to the hours on clocks.
<nealmcb> indeed....
<persia> khanh_coltech, Possibly.  If we can get one more of our board members to arrive in the next 10 minutes or so, we'll process the applications in the order they appear on the wiki page.
<persia> khanh_coltech, If not, we'll try to reschedule the next meeting to assure a sufficient number of people will be present, and review them then.
<khanh_coltech> persia: thanks, i will wait :)
<hito_jp> khanh_coltech: please fix your wikipages link, I think that it needs "s/k/K/'.
<aamachu> persia: while we wait lets decide on concerns you had raised on your comments while editing the wiki page
<khanh_coltech> hito_jp: ok, it fixed
<aamachu> yes. I too agree 2 AM is difficult for Aussies
<persia> I'm just not convinced we can reach quorum at 15:00, and think we oughtn't schedule any meetings then until we are assured of quorum, as it's unfair to those who attend.
<aamachu> persia: yes. And it getting repeated for quite a number of time
<aamachu> and themuso ?
<persia> is in Australia
<PmDematagoda> persia: has the meeting been held before?
<Belutz> aamachu, actually, the previous time is fine with me, but sometimes works in the way
<persia> PmDematagoda, Several times, but we have yet to reach quorum this evening.
<PmDematagoda> persia: Ive been having trouble attending any meeting all this time, most of the time I was caught up in something, my apologies for that
<aamachu> Belutz: you mean the 11.00 UTC or 9.00 UTC?
<Belutz> too many different time zones for asia & oceania :D
<Belutz> aamachu, both, but at both time i will be still at the office
<persia> Belutz, Can you meet from the office?
<aamachu> its office time here in India too..
<Belutz> persia, yes, if there's no meeting :)
<aamachu> but I can manage
<persia> To avoid colliding with the CC, let's do 10:00
<aamachu> persia: you mean to say consistently for all four weeks?
<Belutz> and because sometimes i travel out of town, it's sometimes hard for me to get a connection
<aamachu> on tuesdays?
<persia> aamachu, Or even just every other week.  We didn't do so well with every week, but I think we'd do better with every other week.
<persia> I do like Tuesdays.
<aamachu> persia: as long as we could meet it I am Ok. So the first and the third or the second and the fourth?
<aamachu> Belutz: what do you say?
<persia> second and fourth is better for me, but only marginally.
<Belutz> aamachu, ok, let's try that
<MaWaLe> so there will not be a meeting today?
<Belutz> aamachu, could you please set up a google calendar, so I could subscribe to the meeting schedule and get sms notification for that? :D
<persia> MaWaLe, We haven't reached quorum, and we're 15 minutes in, so likely no.
<persia> aamachu, Just be sure to invite the fridge when you do :)
 * MaWaLe is so sad
<aamachu> yes
<aamachu> Belutz: and for you?
<Belutz> yes, it's ok with me
<MaWaLe> can i ask a question please
<Belutz> i hope the candidate won't be to dissapointed :)
<aamachu> persia: : I do update fridge these days
<persia> MaWaLe, Go ahead.
<aamachu> MaWaLe: has been waiting for so long :-)
<MaWaLe> how do you (RBM) calculate the needed quorum?
<persia> The RMB is 7 members, so it requires at least 4 to make a binding decision.
<aamachu> MaWaLe: We are seven on the board - > 50% is four
<MaWaLe> i think that waiting was a good experience for me to have more activities and knowing more people (like amachu and persia)
<MaWaLe> but now it's taking to much to wait all this time
<aamachu> MaWaLe: I suggest you also apply to other Boards
<aamachu> yes I agree its taking long here
<MaWaLe> amachu: but like mentioned on the edward's rule : for the next and the third time when there's no quorum for an official meeting, the quorum needed is no more 50%
<aamachu> but without quorum we can't proceed. Hope you understand
<MaWaLe> amachu: actually i didn't have an internet connection at home so i can't attend to toher RB
<MaWaLe> this one fit perfectly with mu job time
<MaWaLe> i understand perfectly
<aamachu> MaWaLe: Thanks for that.
<MaWaLe> thanks for all of you
<MaWaLe> it was a pleasure and thank you for the reply amachu
<aamachu> The fourth Tuesday comes next week, and I will schedule the meeting at 10.00 UTC
<aamachu> will that be fine persia, Belutz?
<persia> Good for me.  Please also send out an announcement to our Australian colleagues, so that we have a good chance of quorum.
<Belutz> fine with me
<aamachu> persia: yes.
<persia> Excellent then.  Good night.
<MaWaLe> good night
<aamachu> fine. lets wind up for the day.
<aamachu> persia: Belutz: look out for your nominations for Board Member
<aamachu> :-)
<aamachu> Thank you everyone for participating
<Belutz> aamachu, thanks :)
<MaWaLe> thanks
<Belutz> persia, thanks :)
<Belutz> for all candidates, thanks for your understanding :)
<zaafouri> =)
<MaWaLe> Belutz: I'm a regularI'm a regular now :p
<Belutz> :D
<MaWaLe> Belutz: can i speak to you in private please
<Belutz> MaWaLe, feel free to pm me :)
<MaWaLe> thx
 * manjo waves
<cooloney> cooloney, waves
 * smb_tp waves back
 * amitk waves
<pgraner> Its about time for the Weekly Kernel Team IRC meeting
<pgraner> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is pgraner.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * apw hovers at the edge of your vision
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Items from last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Items from last week
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in #kubuntu-devel incase anyone is in here for it
<pgraner> * sconklin, bring up archiving of Hardy/Intrepid OEM LPIA trees after the sprint
 * smb_tp remembers he still has to add some calendar entries
<pgraner> * sconklin, coordinate testing by the OEM team for Hardy and Jaunty lpia
<rtg> pgraner: sconklin is out today
<pgraner> rtg: Understand, just for completeness.
<pgraner> awe: the OEM team testing and news?
 * pgraner look at awe
<awe> no news...working on testing this week
<pgraner> awe: thanks can you send an email to kernel-team letting us know how it goes?
<awe> i'm bringing the hpmini up to the latest abi / oem-kernel first
<awe> will send an email when i've finished testing
<pgraner> [ACTION] awe to report back to kernel-team on LPIA testing status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  awe to report back to kernel-team on LPIA testing status
<pgraner> * ogasawara, handle another call for testing for A6
<cking> awe: so no pushing new commits then?
<ogasawara> pgraner: sent email, although I'm concerned about the fact that Beta should have users testing via check box but that wasn't available for the A6 cft
<apw> yes the upload i expected to occur tue last week did not occur
<pgraner> ogasawara: yea, I found out about that yesterday, rtg is pushing the package, so we should send out a revised CFT
<apw> seems it needed some FF exception and so it being requested now
<rtg> rt will puch the package as soon as apw delivers it
<pgraner> ogasawara: once the checkbox pkgs is uploaded
<awe> cking: correct
<ogasawara> pgraner: ok good.  I'll send another pre-beta cft when it's ready.
<pgraner> apw: can you let ogasawara know when to fire the CFT out since you working it behind the scenes?
<apw> yep
<pgraner> [ACTION] apw to inform ogasawara when revised CFT can go out
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to inform ogasawara when revised CFT can go out
<pgraner> * apw and smb, look through the bugs ogasawara mentioned .... hows it going?
<apw> ack
<smb_tp> We have one which is a bit tricky (the crash)
<smb_tp> One is fixed by now
<smb_tp> And one could go to manjo (he just isn't aware of it yet)
<manjo> smb_tp, send it my way
<smb_tp> ack
<ogasawara> pgraner: from my end they look to be getting the proper attention
<smb_tp> manjo, Its another Dell server hardware issue on Hardy
<manjo> ok
<pgraner> [ACTION] smb to send manjo bug on Dell server hw issue on Hardy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb to send manjo bug on Dell server hw issue on Hardy
<manjo> is that the hibernate problem ?
<pgraner> ogasawara: thanks for the update
<smb_tp> manjo, No some sort of sata3 disk
<manjo> k
<pgraner> * apw, confirm the ack requirements for jaunty...  not sure what this one is about
<apw> that one was done, in the last meeting and can be closed
<pgraner> apw: nice
 * pgraner likes closed actions
<apw> just confirming we need one ACK for commit to Jaunty currently
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy - Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy - Intrepid
 * rtg has been slacking on that a bit
<smb_tp> Hardy: Upload planned for tomorrow including
<smb_tp> â¢ rt: Updated PREEMPT_RT support to rt27
<smb_tp> â¢ fix apparmor memory leak on deleted file ops
<smb_tp> â¢ KVM: MMU: Add locking around kvm_mmu_slot_remove_write_access()
<smb_tp> â¢ serial: 8250: fix shared interrupts issues with SMP and RT kernels
<smb_tp> â¢ 8250.c: port.lock is irq-safe
<smb_tp> â¢ ACPI: Clear WAK_STS on resume
<smb_tp> Intrepid: Upload has been done, linux-meta needs to get through
<smb_tp> CVE updates are currently being triaged and processed
<smb_tp> Thats basically it
 * pgraner is impressed with smb_tp cut n paste ability :-)
<smb_tp> :-P
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
<pgraner> rtg: how we a lookin'?
<rtg> an ABI bumper is coming today.
<rtg> it contains ATI r6/r7 bits
<rtg> 2.6.28.8
<rtg> and some other stuff
<rtg> oh, and built in EHCI/UHCI/OHCI
<IntuitiveNipple> ha!
<amitk> rtg: OHCI too?
<rtg> I think its looking pretty good. no serious problems that I know of.
<pgraner> rtg: any expected fall out from EHCI and friends?
<rtg> actually, it ought to clear up some issues with USB transfer speeds.
<IntuitiveNipple> As long as the link order is correct :)
<rtg> essentially, its the same solution in the kernel that folks have employed in initramfs
<IntuitiveNipple> That one will solve a lot of USB speed complaints
<rtg> I think the biggest issues with Jaunty are ARM related at this point
 * cking is encouraged by this 
<amitk> how widely is OHCI used?
<pgraner> rtg: will hit arm in a few min
<rtg> AA and aufs do play well together
<rtg> don't
<rtg> ok, full stop
<pgraner> Jaunty Alpha 6 ... ogasawara how does it look from your standpoint?
<pgraner> will come back to that...
<ogasawara> pgraner: looking good here, but seem to be getting more suspend resume bugs
<pgraner> ah
<pgraner> ogasawara: what type? hangs?
<apw> i get the feeling suspend/resume has not been that great ever and we are now
<apw> seeing the badness via the incoming bug stream as people switch over
<ogasawara> pgraner: the ususal, failure to resume.  and I think the increased bug reporting is because of the apport hooks
<apw> to jaunty.
<IntuitiveNipple> From my experience the suspend/resume code in many drivers was an after-thought to catch up with the API
<pgraner> ogasawara: any way to tell if they are false positive? For example I have shut the lid (with it set to suspend) and then opened it immediately and I get the apport notification... anything like that?
<rtg> IntuitiveNipple: I think most drivers have caught up wrt to suspend.
<ogasawara> pgraner: I do see what seem to be false positives coming in too.  I've tried to tag them "false-report" so we can investigate.
<pgraner> ogasawara: great...
<apw> ogasawara, yeah i have a couple of thoughts on that one
<IntuitiveNipple> We have a few false positives based on the TEST_SUSPEND_SECONDS = 5 and I'm investigating what would be a sesnsible higher value to set that based on a collection of kern.log reports ogasawara collected from launchpad
<apw> if they are false we can start dup'ing them onto matt's original false one
<IntuitiveNipple> It looks like increasing it to 9 or 10 would solve alot of those false positives
<ogasawara> apw: sounds good
<pgraner> Well that lead us into the Suspend/Resume topic... which we just covered
<pgraner> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<pgraner> amitk: what say you?
<amitk> as rtg mentioned aufs and apparmor don't like each other
<bradF> the AA and aufs issue that rtg was referring to ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/344370
<amitk> or rather AA doesn't like imx51
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/344370/+text)
<amitk> bradF is looking at the problem
<pgraner> amitk: ok, any other show stoppers out there for ARM?
<rtg> I'm concerned that the problem is something systemic.
<amitk> I am working on finalising the imx51 configs for mobile team
<pgraner> amitk: thanks
<amitk> pgraner: we have dying ttys on the babbage boards. That seems to be the major showstopper right now
<pgraner> amitk: I guess that keeps the end user experience short huh?
<apw> physical or virtual dying?
<pgraner> amitk: any theories on why/how etc...?
<amitk> pgraner: yeah, a bit
<amitk> compiling in AA causes problems, w/o it things are somewhat better
<cking> just somewhat?
<pgraner> amitk: have we reached out to upstream to see what they think?
<amitk> cking: we don't know the next problem we'll encounter after that :)
<amitk> pgraner: I've talked to John Johansen
<rtg> pgraner: or the Freescale dudes?
<amitk> he seemed to think it shouldn't happen
<pgraner> amitk: let me know if you need to talk to Freescale and I'll get some one on the line for you.
<amitk> honestly, given our time constraints, we don't have the experience to track down the AA issue
<rtg> John's explanation made it sound like it could be a fundamental problem.
<amitk> so I am trying to bypass it for now
<amitk> pgraner: thanks
<pgraner> amitk: ok, sounds like a solid plan forward for now
<pgraner> Since sconklin is not here we'll skip the lpia for this week, if there are no objections....
 * rtg has no objections
<cking> nope
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
<pgraner> ogasawara: your time to shine :-)
<ogasawara> pgraner:  I only have 2 to bring up and both seem to be getting looked at
<ogasawara> bug 343556 - regression-potential but apw looks to be investigating
<ogasawara> bug 212485 - hardy SRU that smb_tp looks to already be taking care of
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343556 in linux "MacBook rev3: Wireless works in 8.10 but not in Jaunty" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343556
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212485 in linux "kernel bug rpc nfs client" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212485
<pgraner> ogasawara: thanks... looks in order
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<pgraner> Floor is open...
<manjo> is ext4 going to be a default in jaunty ?
<pgraner> manjo: no
<pgraner> manjo: purely optional
<manjo> current option is the chose manual partition to get ext4...
<pgraner> manjo: as planned
<manjo> k
<pgraner> Any idea when we will see 2.6.29 go final?
<rtg> we're seeing some complaints about ext4
<cking> just some?
<rtg> 175 on one report at last count :)
<cooloney> rtg, right, ext4 lost data ?
<manjo> in my testing ext4 has major issues
<amitk> pgraner: its already -rc8, so soon
<rtg> the next upload has some patches that change some behaviors to be closer to ext3
<apw> rtg is that the patch kit to expedite the open modify rename stuff
<rtg> I did so at apw's suggestion
<rtg> ^^
<cking> kde users will be happy
<pgraner> ogasawara: should we highlight the new ext4 patches and ask for some out of band testing for the willing?
<rtg> the truncated files will be happier too :)
<Riddell> we will?
<ogasawara> pgraner: sure, wouldn't hurt.
<pgraner> ogasawara: can you arrange?
<ogasawara> pgraner: yup
<pgraner> [ACTION] ogasawara to issue CFT around ext4 data loss patches
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to issue CFT around ext4 data loss patches
<cjwatson> manjo: (also you can boot with partman/default_filesystem=ext4 on the kernel command line, if that makes things more convenient for you while testing)
<pgraner> Riddell: yea, ext4 eats kde dot files and leave them zero length
<cooloney> pgraner, sorry, CFT = ?
<rtg> call for testing
<Tonio_> hi (sorry was locked in a meeting here...)
<cooloney> OK
<Riddell> Tonio_: kubuntu meeting in #k-d
<manjo> cjwatson, thanks that works lot better
<pgraner> Anyone have other items... going once... twice
 * rtg flees to another meeting
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
<pgraner> Same time and channel
<apw> ack
<smb_tp> ack
<cking> ..different reality
<cking> ack
<lieb_> ack
<cooloney> ok
<manjo> k
<pgraner> Thanks everyone! Appreciate it!
<amitk> thanks
<pgraner> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:36.
<cooloney> thanks
 * smb_tp shuffles away
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<nhandler> juliux: FYI, ubottu no longer manages the schedule. Look at the gcal
<Laney> nhandler: Have you time for a couple of FFes?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-18
<Laney> oh
<Laney> uh,
<Laney> meant to ask that in -motu, pleae move to there
<robbiew> hello
<cjwatson> hi
<evand> Hallo
<liw> hi
<TheMuso> hi
<TheMuso> for a sec I was sure I had the time wrong. :)
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> hi
 * robbiew was in too many irc concurrent conversations
<robbiew> so not much of an agenda this week
<robbiew> few topics
<robbiew> [TOPIC] BetaFreeze
<MootBot> New Topic:  BetaFreeze
<robbiew> it's tomorrow, correct?
<slangasek> yes
<robbiew> okay...figure everyone knows this...so moving on
<cjwatson> check for unreleased stuff lying around your hard disk, if you're anything like me
<robbiew> heh
<slangasek> (I'll send out a quick reminder to u-d-a this morning about the impending freeze)
<liw> hm, I have a bugfix to python-fstab that might be nice, if anyone wants to sponsor an upload tonight
<robbiew> poor liw...no upload rights :(
<TheMuso> Is the beta freeze starting at 0UTC?
<liw> I'm not poor, I am rich in opportunities to talk people into helping me, it is quite fascinating :)
<slangasek> TheMuso: probably not, in practice
<TheMuso> ok
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<robbiew> jono is now sending platform managers monthly stats
<robbiew> "These stats are not intended as a name and shame, but to instead provide  some insight on which members of your team are not meeting the expected  requirements of the queue."
<Keybuk> that sounds like naming and shaming ;)
<Keybuk> "these don't incriminate, they just tell you who's guilty"
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> FWIW, I'm not keeping score month to month
 * Keybuk hasn't done any sponsoring
<slangasek> the stats probably aren't very accurate anyway, since "work on the sponsorship queue" != "uploading", particularly during freezes
<robbiew> but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't notice significant droughts :P
<robbiew> slangasek: yep
<slangasek> which is not to say that I've been keeping up appropriately
 * mvo coughs
<robbiew> well...understandably these numbers will fluctuate depending on where we are at in the release cycle
<robbiew> I'll just use it mostly to show how much our team kicks a$$
<robbiew> heh
<mvo> we have james_w, we can not loose :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Allhands
<MootBot> New Topic:  Allhands
<robbiew> Just a reminder to start booking travel
<slangasek> Portland is booked
<slangasek> our charter jet will be arriving at noon on Tuesday
<robbiew> heh
<Keybuk> slangasek: need a pilot? :p
<slangasek> :-)
<robbiew> the Austin Cartel travels separately to protect the organization from a single point of failure
<robbiew> folks should update https://wiki.canonical.com/AdminTeam/Travel/Barcelona2009
<robbiew> once travel is booked
<slangasek> "Austin Cartel", isn't that the name of some DJ on MTV?
<robbiew> heh...I wouldn't know...don't watch MTV :P
<robbiew> that's really all I got
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/Good News?
<slangasek> DebConf paper submissions? :)
<GrueMaster> Actually, federal travel regulations specificly state that Texans shouldn't co-mingle.
<robbiew> ah
 * robbiew follows up now...sent an email
<slangasek> thx
<liw> debconf wants papers?
<robbiew> liw: heh
<slangasek> well, talks
<cjwatson> good news: oem-priority bug list down to 1, which is not ours
<cjwatson> have been beating on it a bit
<robbiew> liw: a pre-req for doing a talk is to register...but we are to wait for registration
<robbiew> cjwatson: whoot!
<evand> bad news: still suffering DNS issues, requesting that IS move my forward to my other domain now.
<robbiew> evand: heh...yeah, you're bouncing mail all over the "internets"
<evand> sorry
<robbiew> slangasek: randa is checking with marketing...hopefully we get an answer soon :/
<slangasek> mmk
<liw> robbiew, what's the issue with talk registration?
<robbiew> liw: the issue is that we are supposed to wait to register
<robbiew> liw: I think we get some sort of discount as a sponsor
<robbiew> liw: but if you want to submit your talk proposal...you need to register :/
<slangasek> well, I've already failed at the "wait" part, I assume randa will be able to clean it up after the fact anyway ;)
<liw> ah, ok
<slangasek> my question is whether I have a green light to submit my talk
<robbiew> slangasek: heh...I wouldn't worry too much about it
<cjwatson> robbiew: travel for debconf: I'm planning on bringing the family, so I'm not sure how booking is going to work yet
<robbiew> slangasek: yeah...waiting on that
<robbiew> cjwatson: ok
<slangasek> mvo: so is the conflict checker no longer live?
<cjwatson> robbiew: I'm also not sure yet whether I want to ask to go on Canonical's time but pay my own travel+accommodation, or just ask to go entirely on my own time :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: heh
<mvo> slangasek: unfortunately not, there are some migration issues with the new storm version :/
<cjwatson> I suspect the former is probably more sensible, but I'm planning to go to some of debcamp as well
<slangasek> mvo: okie
<robbiew> cjwatson: I agree
<cjwatson> but anyway, that's what I'm stuck on before doing anything cromulent about debconf
<robbiew> sure
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> once...
<mvo> slangasek: I can try to give it some love, but the issue was a bit tricky
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I'm not sure that's a valid use of the word "cromulent"
<robbiew> twice...
 * mvo looks up "cromulent"
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:26.
<evand> thanks
<cjwatson> Keybuk: it's a perfectly cromulent use
<Keybuk> mvo: "valid" roughly ;)
<liw> thanks
<Keybuk> thus my punny response to colin
<TheMuso> thanks
<robbiew> thanks
<mvo> thanks
<randa> robbiew, to submit papers for Debconf we have time until 15th April. I will try Marketing to give me an answer this week
<slangasek> mvo: some love would be good, I was asking for purposes of mentioning it in the beta freeze pre-announce, which I won't then
<GrueMaster> So, exactly what was this meeting about?  It isn't on the fridge schedule.
<Keybuk> GrueMaster: things tend to fall off the fridge
<Keybuk> it's a remarkably good metaphor
<Keybuk> this was the weekly meeting of the Ubuntu Foundations Team at Canonical
<Keybuk> a BBC Production
<Keybuk> the Producer was...
<GrueMaster> It would be nice if startmeeting had a subject line.
<Keybuk> (it is on the new fridge calendar, of course)
<Keybuk> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<GrueMaster> ok
<GrueMaster> Still getting used to PDT time change (happened while I was in Oxford).
<robbiew> randa: thnx
<davmor2> Hello :)
<heno> hey everyone
 * ara waves
<davmor2> hello again
<jcozens> Hi
 * ogasawara waves
<bdmurray> Hi
<fader> Howdy
<pedro_> hola!
<pedro_> salut cr3
<cr3> pedro_: hey hey! by the way, I must apologize for not having found time to participate in that samba hug day. just too darn busy :(
<heno> sbeattie, ping
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> ok, let's start
<pedro_> cr3: no worries :-)
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> [TOPIC] UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  UbuntuBugDay highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> Last Thursday we celebrated the Samba hug day, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090312
<pedro_> lot of bugs were triaged as you can see per the graphs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090312?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=samba-1day-triaging.png
<pedro_> The server team helped us a lot solving questions we had (thanks ttx and mathiaz!)
<pedro_> and they made a pretty good marketing as well
<pedro_> blogging about it and remember it on the server meetings
<heno> as we talked about earlier pedro, we should make a point of bringing future bug days to other team meetings
<heno> so that they can plan their participation
<pedro_> yes that'd help a lot to improve the participation from their side
<heno> what's the next theme?
<pedro_> Ill add that to the organizing page
<heno> great
<pedro_> heno: cups
<pedro_> ok so our bug days heroes: paulduf, jgoguen and bigal50, thanks a lot guys for helping out and keep up the great work!
<pedro_> tomorrow is the cups hug day https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090319 and jgoguen already started to work
<pedro_> so be fast or he is going to squash them all
<bdmurray> Also keep an eye out for new apport bug reports as they'll include the new printing hook which has lots of information.
<heno> pedro_: is Till in the loop?
<heno> indeed
<heno> [TOPIC] New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  New bug control members! -- bdmurray
<pedro_> heno: haven't pinged him yet, isn't clear who is responsible for the package just looking to the changelog, but i'll do it and ping pitti as well he's doing some work there too
<pedro_> heno: will start adding the hug days to the meetings for the next one then (xorg)
<heno> pedro_: excellent, thanks
<bdmurray> We have one new bug control member this week - Andres Mujica. Andres is particularly interested in kernel bug reports.
<bdmurray> We also have one application, Joel Goguen, currently under review.
<heno> congrats Andres!
<heno> [TOPIC] Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Testing day topic & highlights from last UTD
<heno> ara? ^
<ara> In the last Testing day we were testing notify-osd
<ara> there was a good communication in the u-testing channel during european times
<ara> low points: MacSlow didn't show up in the end, but eeejay was a great help
<ara> also, people start testing, but there is no way to track their testing a la Litmus
<ara> so, if they don't find any bugs, they cannot show any where that they were there
<ara> ideas?
<davmor2> ara: attendees page
<cr3> ara: what's Litmus?
<heno> I'm planning a meeting next week with Shaun and Nigel to look more at result tracking
<davmor2> cr3: paper used to test acidity ;)
<ara> cr3: https://litmus.mozilla.org/
<cr3> davmor2: that's with a lower case
<ara> heno: great
<ara> next week topic is beta smoke testing, davmor2?
<heno> in the old days we used wiki pages for this :)
<davmor2> Yes beta smoke
<cr3> heno: could you suggest using Launchpad for this? they already get test results from checkbox, perhaps they could have an interface for either displaying or at very least querying test results
<heno> davmor2, fader: can we have a call tomorrow about Beta ISO testing?
<davmor2> yes
<fader> heno: Absolutely
<heno> fader: we can tack it on to our existing call
<fader> Sounds good :)
<heno> cool
<heno> 13.00 UTC
<heno> davmor2: I'll send you connection details
<davmor2> heno: for the call?
<davmor2> ta
<heno> davmor2: yes, does that work?
<davmor2> yes that's fine
<heno> cr3: LP is an option but probably not flexible enough
<cr3> heno: the advantage of LP is that it could potentially create bugs based on failed test results
<heno> back to ara's question: what should be the testing day week after next?
<davmor2> could this not be integrated into tracker as it is a regular occurance now
<heno> should we do a server day?
<heno> alternatively audio
<ara> if you see the Calendar, we are running out of topics: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Calendar
<cr3> davmor2: it would require openid integration and all that, possible but not trivial
<ara> heno: server is a good idea
<heno> ara: can you coordinate something with the server team?
<ara> heno: sure, will do
<heno> perhaps we'll all be testing in the cloud for one day :)
<heno> [TOPIC] Bug gravity - bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug gravity - bdmurray
<cr3> heno: checkbox-satellite integration with ec2 is something I would like to discuss during uds
<stgraber> hey there
<cr3> satellites go in the clouds anyways, so how appropriate
<heno> heh
<ara> cr3: poet!
<heno> hey stgraber
<bdmurray> Last week I mentioned the bug gravity report and showed some demos of it.  I've added the script that generates the report to the ubuntu-qa-tools bzr branch if anyone wants to use it.
<heno> bdmurray: remind us of the link?
<pedro_> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/tmp/gravity/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/tmp/gravity/
<heno> (esp those of us who were not here), thanks
<bdmurray> Those are some sample reports, not updated, from last week
<bdmurray> pedro_: did you have a chance to look at any of the desktop ones?
<heno> is the weighting formula simple, would it appear in a legend?
<pedro_> bdmurray: i did some work with it during the last week, find it pretty useful
<bdmurray> heno: it adds gravity for tags, bug privacy, then duplicates, subscribers and users affected
<bdmurray> heno: I could add in a legend of sorts
<heno> bdmurray: great, good to be transparent about these things :)
<sbeattie> bdmurray: it might be interesting to explore adding the webpage hits stuff to that as a low-level weighting, too.
<heno> is the plan to eventually add gravity to assignment lists?
<heno> (I forget if we covered this)
<bdmurray> We hadn't really covered a use case for it.  I think it is helpful when you have a large amount of bugs needing triaging.
<heno> or fixing
<bdmurray> To find out which ones should maybe be triaged first
<heno> bdmurray: what would you like from the group - using the list and give feedback?
<bdmurray> Shouldn't the importance be the gravity when looking at bugs to fix?
<bdmurray> heno: yes, last week I was looking for feedback to see if it would be useful for us to run the report on qa.ubuntu.com for some packages.
<heno> true. gravity can perhaps be a guide in setting importance
<heno> linked from the status pages perhaps?
<heno> Yes, I think we should try a few on qa.u.c
<bdmurray> That seems reasonable and then maybe remove the more than 2 duplicates and other reports
<heno> makes sense
<heno> ok, next
<heno> [TOPIC] Patch testing workflow - bdmurray
<MootBot> New Topic:  Patch testing workflow - bdmurray
<heno> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PatchTesting
<heno> That looks very useful!
<bdmurray> Based on some community interest I documented how I test patches that are attached to bug reports at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PatchTesting.  I wanted it to be approachable so it glosses over a couple of things like building virtual machines and setting up a package build environment.
<bdmurray> I've walked through it a couple of times myself so could use feedback on the process.
<heno> This would be a good developer week session
<ara> bdmurray: great doc!
<heno> or bug/testing day theme even
<davmor2> bdmurray: if it's okay I'll have a look through it tomorrow and see if I can follow it.  I figure if I can anyone can :)
<bdmurray> davmor2: thanks!
<heno> at the very least worth a blog post :)
<heno> [TOPIC] Mozilla landing page - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mozilla landing page - ara
<ara> OK. I am just concern about our landing page
<heno> http://quality.mozilla.org/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://quality.mozilla.org/
<pedro_> the one at qa.ubuntu.com ?
<ara> if a person is thinking in participate in either mozilla qa or ubuntu qa, their page beat our http://qa.ubuntu.com/
<ara> pedro_: yes. if you google for "ubuntu qa", that's the first result
<ara> I like the way Mozilla QA landing page starts with a general question "how do you want to get involved?"
<ara> it is very likely that, if you're already part of the qa team, you skip the landing page and go to wherever you need in that moment (reports, testcases, ...)
<ara> but if you're new, and want to get involved, the first thing that you try is qa.ubuntu.com, isn't it?
<ogasawara> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/QAPortal
<heno> stgraber: is it easy to edit that page from the drupal backend (given content)?
<jcozens> I came in originally from ubuntu.com following the "Get Involved" link.
<ara> heno: is there any plan to push the development of the landing page?
<heno> I suspect we have over-engineered it and should step back and just write a decent landing page by hand
<heno> lot's of good ideas on that spec but we should just get a better page up
<heno> schwuk: you like writing things :) Can you do one based on the mozilla page?
<heno> I'll speak with stgraber tomorrow about posting it
<schwuk> heno: sure
<heno> (if you write a book you get picked on to write stuff :) )
<heno> thanks ara for bringing that up
<heno> [TOPIC] Checkbox 0.7 - schwuk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Checkbox 0.7 - schwuk
<ara> heno: it could also be a topic of a summer internship
<heno> ara: the more extended portal, yes
<schwuk> heno: I guess I deserve that...
<schwuk> So, Checkbox 0.7 has been released, and uploaded to Jaunty!
<schwuk> Please prod, poke, test, and use it.
<davmor2> \o/
<ara> schwuk, cr3: congrats!
<ogasawara> schwuk: nice!  so I can run the supend/resume test using checkbox now right?
<heno> yes, please try the suspend script esp!
<heno> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/SuspendResume
<schwuk> ogasawara: Yes!
<schwuk> ara: thank you
<cr3> ara: thanks, but it doesn't have the new shiny logo yet :)
<ara> cr3: yes, the most important feature, just left out, ouch!
<heno> any other topics?
<davmor2> I got a question
<davmor2> all these feature using scripts will they eventually end up in lp itself?
<cr3> davmor2: what do you mean by "feature using scripts"?
<sbeattie> davmor2: you mean the greasemonkey scripts?
<davmor2> Like bdmurray's gravity stuff
<davmor2> sbeattie: yes
<heno> davmor2: unlikely
<heno> though they may adopt some metrics and lists
<bdmurray> some of the greasemonkey scripts are scheduled to end up in LP
<davmor2> cool :)
<heno> ok, let's wrap up!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:01.
<heno> thanks all!
<schwuk> thanks heno
<pedro_> thanks
<davmor2> ta
<ara> thanks!
<bdmurray> thanks
<sbeattie> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-19
<ogra> moop
<persia> RIght.  Time for the Mobile Meeting.
 * NCommander waves
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> Agenda is [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090319
<persia> [topic] persia to investigate 338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to investigate 338148
<persia> At the last meeting we thought this was a simple merge.  It's more than that.  I've been looking at it, but don't have all the bits in my head yet.  I'll need it carried over.
<persia> [topic] NCommander to post dmesg for jacx10 to 280669
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to post dmesg for jacx10 to 280669
<NCommander> please carry over, been working all week on Redboot
<persia> [topic] lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool to spec ec2-package-builder for jaunty+1
<persia> lool ?
<lool> No progress
<persia> [topic] ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim selection-of-arm-images to a smaller scope
<ogra> carry over
<ogra> as well as the next one
<ogra> babbage kernel issues kept me busy
<persia> Right.  That takes us to roadmap.
<persia> [topic] offline-installer
<MootBot> New Topic:  offline-installer
<ogra> same status
<persia> [topic] mobile-setup-wizard
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-setup-wizard
<persia> no progress
<persia> [topic] arm-library-optimisation
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-library-optimisation
<persia> lool, ?
<lool> Progress but need to file FFE and blocked by betafreeze now
<lool> move to next item please
<persia> [topic] pouslbo-packaging
<MootBot> New Topic:  pouslbo-packaging
<persia> I still need to document stuff: the plan is changing a bit, but it's still not working well enough to use properly.
<ogra> WTF
<persia> ogra, ?
<ogra> why is offline-installer a drupal project now ?
<persia> Because of a launchpad bug.
<ogra> ah
<persia> Just ignore that for the moment :)
<persia> Moving on...
<ogra> hard if you want to look at your specs :P
<persia> Yes.  I expect we can get manual resolution of the outstanding ones in the next couple weeks.
<persia> [topic] general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  general-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling
<ogra> no progress
<persia> [topic] arm-softboot-loader
<MootBot> New Topic:  arm-softboot-loader
<NCommander> No progress
<persia> [topic] selection-of-arm-images
<MootBot> New Topic:  selection-of-arm-images
<lool> NCommander: You're looking into kexec soon though
<ogra> slow progress, started the automatic image builder script for the babbage image today
<ogra> but currently blocked on broken kernel
<NCommander> lool, true.
<persia> [topic] lpia-versus-i386
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia-versus-i386
<lool> nothing new to reprot
<persia> [topic] mobile-spec-cleanup
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-spec-cleanup
<persia> status unchanged
<persia> [topic] bug #299847
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #299847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299847 in linux "Shared memory operations on very fast ARM hardware suffer from non-atomic operations and race conditions." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299847
<NCommander> No progress
<persia> [topic] bug #328167
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #328167
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328167 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon eating 100% CPU at login in Jaunty" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328167
<ogra> i need to rebuild from source onm upstream request
<ogra> but need my babbage for other stuff atm
<persia> ogra, Do you want an action item for that, or is roadmap sufficient?
<ogra> will do that once i have my hands off the image builder scripts
<ogra> sure, make it an action item
<persia> [action] ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to rebuild gnome-keyring-daemon to troubleshoot 328167
<persia> [topic] bug #280669
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #280669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280669 in linux "DMA mode and driver jax10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280669
<NCommander> No progress.
<persia> [topic] bug #336770
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #336770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336770 in linux "Problems Installing Jaunty On NSLU2" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336770
 * persia removes it from the roadmap
<ogra> reload your wikipage :P
<lool> Let's drop that one?
<ogra> its gone already
<persia> ogra, I reload before nearly every topic, and I skipped once, and you got me :)
 * ogra removed it at the start of the meeting
<persia> [topic] bug #338148
<MootBot> New Topic:  bug #338148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338148
<ogra> fix your proxy :)
<persia> I've already got a carried over action item on it: needs more merge effort (different versions).
<persia> [topic] NSLU2 enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  NSLU2 enablement
<ogra> works :)
<ogra> could surely need some extra love
<ogra> like tasksel adjustments and the like
<persia> Do you still want a roadmap item?  Will more discussion or tracking help?
<ogra> but really not in scope atm
<ogra> well, if we see regressions i could report on it
<persia> OK. Let's leave it then.
<persia> [topic] Babbage enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Babbage enablement
<ogra> so leave it there, i can easily nod it off every meeting
<NCommander> RedBoot for Babbage board has been packaged
<ogra> amit is working on the merged kernel configs
<NCommander> Its sitting in universe, pending MIRs
<ogra> redboot and friends are packaged by NCommander
<NCommander> debian-installer-imx51-netboot has just been successfully started.
<ogra> NCommander, hey, my duty !
<NCommander> ogra, the installer or the news?
<ogra> (leave the reporting to me and just add stuff i miss)
 * NCommander goes mute
<ogra> else it gets to confusing
<ogra> lool is working on the fconfig scripts
<lool> we miss installer, either d-i or ubiquity, and that implies a good scenario for install still; some candidates have been discussed
<ogra> i am working on the autobuild scripts atm
<lool> Depending on what works and on the final scenario, we need differing bits
<ogra> we're currently hit hard by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/344370/
<lool> flash-kernel integration is likely to be needed if we can't get a kexec solution to work
<persia> What support do we need in d-i outside the kernel?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 344370 in linux "imx51 AppArmor oops during bootup" [Medium,In progress]
<persia> Is it just kernel selection, or is something else broken?
<ogra> persia, a bootloader udeb or some such
<lool> persia: We don't build any netboot image for babbage ATM, and I would think a SD image would be useful
<NCommander> ogra, we have a redboot udeb
<lool> We do?
<lool> Cool
<NCommander> Yeah, I figured you might want it so I saved some work and did it all in one go
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/344955 sopped me form working forward the last three days
<NCommander> (much to the confusion of the poor REVU reviewers)
<ogra> but its fixed now
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/344955/+text)
<persia> OK, so the redboot udeb can give us an alternate image, and we can make an SD live image.
<lool> Then you also need some d-i logic for the redboot udeb, currently it only provides files
<ogra> right, we need lools scripts
<lool> IOW we need a story for the d-i install as well
<NCommander> lool, it needs to be in the udeb build-deps, and then have the arch-image target glue all together, and get out a bin blob like NSLU2
<ogra> thats silly
<ogra> lets just do a real alternate image
<ogra> instead of netboot
<lool> ogra: netboot is trivial and is useful for people using various scripts
<NCommander> ogra, sure, I can add a cdrom target easily, netboot images are easy to do
<lool> We don't need it, but it would be the first thing I'd add
<NCommander> I already booted the imx51 netboot initrd
<persia> If we have alternate, netboot isn't significantly more work.
 * NCommander hasn't run the install yet.
<ogra> persia, other way round
<persia> ogra, either way :)
<ogra> netboot is easier but not a good fallback if we fail live
<persia> Right.
<ogra> so i'D like to se the focus on alternate
<persia> I don't think live is an issue, as long as we pick the right kernel.
<NCommander> ogra, netboot is three lines of code to get a initrd
<ogra> in cae we hit issues with ubiquity we didnt foresee
<persia> In many ways, live is easier to do than alternate, because not as much of d-i is involved.
<ogra> but live install isnt yet
<lool> Let's not debate netboot, it's not the target and will be done if anybody touches d-i because it's trivial
<ogra> its easy up to the package install
<ogra> but the final step to make the install bootable only exists theoretically yet
<ogra> and we might hit issues we didnt expect
<lool> My main concerns for *either* install is a) getting partitioning right and b) installing redboot and flash-kernel properly if needs be
<ogra> so i'd like an alternate image as a safety net
<persia> OK, so essentially we need the glue that installs the bootloader somewhere (which isn't grub)?
<ogra> our target is to have a milestoneable image
<persia> Right.
<ogra> which netboot isnt (and cant be)
<lool> ogra: Isn't that what we released for A5/verstaile?
<ogra> so lets leave netboot as a nice to have
<ogra> lool, netboot ?
<ogra> ye
<ogra> s
<lool> yes
<lool> It's at least something
<ogra> but was considered not sufficientr
<ogra> management request was a fixed milestoneable image
<ogra> no netboot
<lool> for release
<ogra> which is why i'd like to see NCommander working on a,ternate instead of netboot
<ogra> so we have a fallback in case ubiquity fails
<NCommander> ogra, netboot already exists
<lool> let's forget netboot
<ogra> right
<NCommander> ogra, just so I can fix the partitioning and flash-kernel, and then just drop the cdrom bits in.
 * NCommander doesn't want to write a 700MB image just to test the installer.
<ogra> but thats what we're supposed to have
<NCommander> ogra, let me rephrase
<NCommander> While we're developing the installer variant
<persia> NCommander, The trick is to just replace bits in the 700MB image with each iteration of installer work.  I'd be happy to help you with workflow.
<ogra> you will need significant cjhanges tro the cdrom detection code
<ogra> to work from SD
<NCommander> ogra, we do?
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> No, we can use the cf variant
<ogra> so please test with a real d-i image
<ogra> if you can do that, thats fine, but please test it
<NCommander> ogra, to build alternates, I need access to cdimage.u.c
<NCommander> I can't build a full image on 127.0.0.1 with just the d-i package unless I'm mistaken.
<persia> NCommander, No you don't.  After the meeting, let's chat about image construction.
<NCommander> fair enough.
<persia> [action] persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia & NCommander to review workflow for testing alternate images.
<persia> Anything else for Babbage enablement?
<ogra> NCommander, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/
<ogra> there are alternate images
<ogra> use and modify them
<persia> OK.  Moving on then.
<persia> [topic] ARM benchmarking
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM benchmarking
<lool> I think no progress
<ogra> we anyway only need it as a base for KK
<persia> NCommander, ?
<ogra> so its not milestone critical or something
<NCommander> sorry, no progress (no ARMv7 build)
<persia> OK.  That concludes roadmap review.
<ogra> just has to be there at release
<persia> We've one topic on the agenda that's been pending
<persia> [topic] Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss moving meeting time to be more convenient for those in UTC-5 through UTC-8
<ogra> but still not all team members
<persia> No, but those absent fall into the range that's inconvenient.
<ogra> same prob as last week
<GrueMaster> I thoughtthe idea was to wait for DST world wide.
<GrueMaster> Then shift.
<lool> I don't want to discuss this without david anyway
<persia> Given that the previous discussions were talking about times that would be inconvenient for all of those present, let's find the least inconvenient one.
<persia> OK.  We'll carry it over another week then, and the next meeting will be at this time.
<persia> Anyone have any last minute additions to the agenda?
<GrueMaster> Action Reports are due NOW.
<NCommander> GrueMaster, you got mine.
<lool> GrueMaster: you're good!
<ogra> heh
<lool> Ok, /me lunch &
<persia> OK.  Meeting adjouned then.  Thanks everyone.
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:36.
 * persia peers about
<persia> So, who's here for the Java meeting?
<ttx> \o/
<persia> Right.  We need a bigger team :)
<persia> Nothing new on the agenda.
<persia> robilad isn't here
<ttx> come on everyone, java is fun ! Or not.
<persia> slytherin isn't here
<persia> I didn't file the SRU for sun-java5 yet, so we can't drop it.
<persia> ttx, Any progress on Java-Contents?
<ttx> yes, !
<ttx> So I finished the script and ran it through intrepid
<ttx> documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/JavaContents
<ttx> I will add a few examples to the docs, run it through current Jaunty
<ttx> but I already accpt feedback / bugs in the script
<persia> Cool!
<persia> Could you add a link to that on the Roadmap?
<ttx> I might create a project in LP rather than just a +junk branch
<ttx> so that bugs can be filed against it
<ttx> sure, i'll link it from the roadmap and the knowledge base pages
<ttx> it's interesting to see unneeded code duplication as well
<ttx> roxen4 in the example
<ttx> anyway, that's a good tool for every Java packager
<ttx> I know I've been missing something like that a lot during this cycle.
<persia> It's also a good tool to use to clean up.
<persia> We likely don't need all of that: I'd hope we could drop it from both roxen and glassfish in your example.
<persia> I'm sure we have *many* more.
<ttx> oh yes, I picked javax.servlet by accident.
<ttx> ludovicc: welcome, we were talking about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/JavaContents
<persia> Dunno if it needs an LP project.  Might make sense to add it to one of the developer tools packages.
<persia> Something like ubuntu-dev-tools or javahelper.
<ttx> ludovicc: a mapping file that shows package/jar/classes contents in a release
<ttx> persia: i'll try to find a good match
<ttx> there isn't much point in regenerating it yourself though. takes time
<ttx> there are ~800 packages containing jar files.
<ttx> and more coming up :)
<ludovicc> i'm not familiar with JavaContents, but it looks like it may duplicate the information you can get from Maven descriptors
<persia> I wonder if it's worth asking the archive-admins to add it to the scripts they run against the archive on a scheduled basis, and just referencing it.
<persia> ludovicc, It would, except that it also covers stuff that isn't maven.
<ttx> persia: once it's debugged, might make sense, yes
<ludovicc> lots of stuff is not Maven, yet even those have POM descriptors describing them
<ludovicc> available on online Maven repositories
<persia> ludovicc, Ah.  I see.  The difference is that JavaContents provides a report on the contents of the Ubuntu archive, so we can detect duplication, etc.
<persia> We could probably run the same thing against Debian.
<persia> Until all the packages have been updated to include POM descriptors, it's a different view.
<ludovicc> ok, so that's more like a tool for keeping the repository clean
<persia> In fact, one could probably use JavaContents to help identify what should be added for POM descriptors.
<persia> Well, and finding out on which package one needs to depend or build-depend when packaging.
<ttx> ludovicc: it also helps in determining in which debian package is defined a given class
<ttx> for example I've been looking for javax.faces
<ttx> difficult to be sure it's not already provided *somewhere*
<ludovicc> that would be good yes, but there are alternative solutions as always
<ttx> with javaContents, I have the answer
<ludovicc> the nice thing with this idea is snice you work with classes and packages, not with jars, it can work out very nicely with OSGi
<ludovicc> so why not?
<ttx> that's all on that subject
<persia> OK.  Next up: attracting more Java packagers
<ludovicc> OSGi uses package names to locate services and organize classloaders
<ttx> persia: so I've been looking at missing libraries... apparently Maven in debian is now ready (ludovicc could confirm) so all basic libs/plugins have been added
<ludovicc> many of them, but it's far from complete
<ttx> ludovicc: do you have a list somewhere in debian of missing pieces ?
<ludovicc> only 5 or 6 plugins have been packaged, there are dozens yet to package
<ttx> ludovicc: the idea is that if we have some Java packagers wanabees we want to point them to a list of things they can do
<ttx> (and contribute back to Debian)
<ttx> I also wanted to run a few Java lib packaging classes, where that list could be used
<ludovicc> no list, but it's easy to get it: compare the list of plugins on the Maven site with what's in the pkg-java svn repo
<ttx> so you'd say what's missing are maven plugins ?
<persia> ludovicc, Do you think it would make sense to file a collection of RFPs for those, and for us to put out a call for Java packagers to tackle them?
<ludovicc> that would be a good idea, but before I would like to be clear with Torsten Werner about the strategy for packaging Maven and its POMs
<ludovicc> it's almost there though, so we can get started on that
<ludovicc> I mean the RFP
<ttx> ludovicc: ok
<persia> ludovicc, That sounds reasonable.  Would you be able to get back to us next week about the strategy?
<persia> I'm sure ttx or I could find the time to file lots of bugs, and then put out the call.
<ludovicc> hopefully yes, if I can get Torsten to work with me, he seems busy now
<ludovicc> but anyway I have already a lot working on my side, if you could try it and give me your opinion, that would help
<ludovicc> check https://code.launchpad.net/uj and https://code.launchpad.net/maven-packaging-support
<ludovicc> lp:~ludovicc/maven-packaging-support/maven-repo-helper contains a tool for including Maven POMs into normal Java library packages
<ttx> ludovicc: I seem to be confused on how complementary the work of Torsten and yours are
<ludovicc> Torsten is working on a pure Maven solution, where you use Maven to build your package
<ludovicc> I'm trying to complement this to provide Maven POMs for those many libraries not built with Maven
<ludovicc> those POMs will then be placed in /usr/share/maven-repo, and used when building Maven projects dependent on external libraries
<ttx> ok
<ludovicc> so lp:~ludovicc/uj/junit and lp:~ludovicc/uj/modello are an exemple of those Maven-enabled libraries
<ludovicc> I hope to get agreement from Torsten soon, and merge this work to Debian
<ttx> that would be great.
<ttx> ludovicc: do you plan to come at UDS ?
<ludovicc> now I've got time, but no money...
<ttx> that's why sponsoring is (was) for :)
<ludovicc> missed it...
<ttx> persia: anything else ?
<persia> I don't have anything.
<persia> ludovicc, ?
<ludovicc> I started some time ago a guide for packaging Java libraries
<ludovicc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/KnowledgeBase/Packaging
<ttx> ludovicc: I wrote one too.
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/LibraryPackaging
<ludovicc> yeah, I saw it
<ttx> mine is more Debian-packager oriented
<ttx> "here are the differences in Java"
<ttx> yours is more step-by-step
<ludovicc> mine is more Java oriented (for the guy who know naught about Debian), but still very incomplete
<ludovicc> it's based on the Python packaging guide, I'm sure we can do as well for Java
<persia> Those look nicely complimentary.
<persia> ludovicc, Do you need help, or just more time?
<ludovicc> I need more time, but if you want to help, feel free to edit.
<persia> heh :)
<persia> OK.  Anyone have anything else?
<ludovicc> no
<ttx> no
<ludovicc> see u folks
<ttx> bye ludovicc, thanks for coming !
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-20
 * lool waves and pokes sladen 
<lool> ups
<lool> slangasek:
<lool> not sladen, sorry
 * slangasek is poked
<ScottK> \o
<heno> hi
<pitti> hello
<slangasek> mdz, pgraner, robbiew, cjwatson, rickspencer3, Riddell, sbeattie, Hobbsee, fader: ping
 * fader waves.
<sbeattie> hey
<mdz> slangasek: good morning
 * pgraner yawns
<dendrobates> o/
<mdz> finally I get to attend without a meeting conflict!
<slangasek> :)
 * rickspencer3 throws cold water on pgraner
<pitti> I'm sure he'd rather appreciate a coffe
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> slangasek: I sent you a couple of additional topics by email (sorry for it being last minute)
<pgraner> pitti: cold water is better :-D
<mdz> they should be quick
 * rickspencer3 hands pgraner a non-fat soy latte
<slangasek> [LINK] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-20
<MootBot> LINK received:  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-03-20
<cjwatson> whoa, I forgot about the time change
<pgraner> rickspencer3: me hands it back
<slangasek> mdz: ack, seen now
<slangasek> [TOPIC] outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
<slangasek> bug #88746 remains an eyesore on my todo list for another week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 88746 in linux "ehci_hcd module causes I/O errors in USB 2.0 devices" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88746
<slangasek> I confirmed the suspend/resume test plan with ogasawara last night
<fader> A summary of the hardware testing is on ogasawara's weather report
<slangasek> fader: did you get a chance to talk to ogasawara about linking the HW cert report from the weather report ?
<slangasek> ok, great!
<fader> Updated once per day atm
 * ScottK tosses out a thanks to cjwatson for figuring a way to avoid the qt4-x11 ICE on powerpc (previous week's action).
<cjwatson> ScottK: doko fixed the gcc bug too, so that can be dropped the next time qt4-x11 is getting an upload anyway
<mdz> wow, that's a lot of comments on 88746
<ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.  Good to know.
<slangasek> yes, it's probably a dozen or so bugs in a single bug report :/
<mdz> fader: that's great
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> 'hardware testing' is the only thing on my agenda here - are we in good shape for certification testing on the beta?
<fader> Yup, we're getting good coverage
<fader> file:///home/fader/Desktop/cr-20090320.html
<mdz> the (only) two failures both look like problems with the test suite
<heno> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~fader/hw-testing/current
<cjwatson> there is a known problem with cciss and lvm, which fader's testing uncovered
<fader> Modulo a couple of hardware issues that we're still working through, there are only 2 failures that as mdz says are things we need to look at with checkbox
<cjwatson> bug 341928
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/341928/+text)
<mdz> ouch
<davmor2> cjwatson: beat me to it
<cjwatson> I suspect that at this point we won't manage to clean that up for beta, but we have a rough idea of whereabouts the problem lies
<mdz> release note?
<slangasek> cjwatson: something that we could preemptively errata then?
<cjwatson> yes, I think so
<slangasek> (erratate?)
<slangasek> cjwatson: can you take that action?
<cjwatson> I see that it was mistakenly not targeted to jaunty, so I'll do that now
<cjwatson> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to document cciss+lvm problem for beta
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to document cciss+lvm problem for beta
<cjwatson> (it's only for removing LVM on such systems, BTW; setting up LVM is fine)
<cjwatson> (which is why I'm not panicking)
<slangasek> heno: anything else showing up as a concern from the QA side?
<mdz> I believe there's some infrastructure work on the ISO tracker for beta
<slangasek> ah?
<pitti> heno: is the process of feeding bugs to teams and getting them reviewed/processed/ct-rev'ed working now?
<mdz> RT 3363
<mdz> 33363, rather
<mdz> ETA is today
<heno> yes, we've been allocated a new server, not sure if we will migrate for beta, likely not
<slangasek> would that at least give you streamlined access to the SQL db, or is that dependent on migration?
<slangasek> I got halfway to putting UNR on the tracker, but I would need another RT to add test cases for it :)
<mdz> I gave a heads up to IS that cdimage was a likely contentious resource
<heno> pitti: the infrastucture is all working, not sure how much uptake there is - some teams still have a long list of old assigned bugs
<mdz> (for beta image testing)
<heno> slangasek: I'm sure we can do db updates even on the current setup
<lool> slangasek: Test cases are a bit of a mess, we have a bunch of them, but it's not clear which site to fix (testcases.qa.u.c or the wiki)
<pitti> heno: from my perspective it's working well, we get some important bugs tossed from QA, and I channel them to people, etc.
<lool> But we certainly have a list of things to test in UNR, thanks to OEM's earlier testplan efforts
<heno> we're setting up a backup mirror just in case too
<mdz> there are 48 bugs on the regression list, 15 of which have no importance set yet
<heno> sbeattie: ^
<cjwatson> ... 13
<heno> slangasek: about other concerns - not yet, but I'd like us to do some more audio testing
<heno> We are also doing a run of manual testing of the laptops in Montreal starting today, following the test plan at http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Plans/LaptopTesting
<heno> This will include running the suspend / resume script
<slangasek> what sort of audio testing?  verifying that it works on different hardware?
<mdz> there are 276 open suspend/resume bugs resulting from the testing, about half triaged I estimate
<slangasek> lool: test cases for what?  ISO testing?
<heno> fader: is that all lined up to go ahead?
<lool> slangasek: for UNR
<lool> slangasek: Yes, for the iso testing tracker
<fader> heno: Yes, we're doing manual laptop tests today
<heno> slangasek: yes that and some more testing around VoIP
<fader> David Bensimon is helping with that which I really appreciate :)
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Ubuntu-Netbook-Remix
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Ubuntu-Netbook-Remix
<lool> QA folks in the mobile team are aware of these and will use them
<heno> we've seen issues with skype and gizmo
<slangasek> lool: hrm, how many is "a bunch" then?  we don't want too much combinatorial explosion on the ISO test cases...
<lool> slangasek: There is a lot of coverage, I don't think you want to link them all to the ISO testing site, but we could select some for that
<slangasek> heno: sounds good - shall I assume that any problems found will be filed and escalated?
<heno> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> lool: that would be helpful
<slangasek> [ACTION] lool to identify a set of UNR test cases to link from the ISO tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to identify a set of UNR test cases to link from the ISO tracker
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<pitti> as usual, report is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> rickspencer3: heyo
<slangasek> (and pitti :)
<pitti> please notice that I took the fixed bugs off the list (some were still mentioned in the agenda)
<pitti> we made quite some good progress on fixing RC bugs last week, especially in the X.org area
<pitti> unfortunately the list still grows instead of shrinks, but that's mostly because there are more and more "less critical" things getting on that list now
<pitti> the first four bugs are still nasty, but all other bugs are entirely tractable and on track to get fixed by the release; I grouped them accordingly on the wiki page
<slangasek> pitti: which ones were still on the agenda that were fixed?  that list should've been filtered already
<pitti> we'll get a new GNOME maintainer next week, so he can hopefully help out with e. g. 325973
<pitti> slangasek: the nss comodo one, the fglrx migration
<mdz> 304871 -> has that been escalated to intel?
<pitti> and the compiz flicker
<pitti> mdz: yes, many times
<pitti> mdz: they basically stop supporting old hardware :(
<pitti> and likewise, putting most of their energy into developing UXA
<mvo> pitti: compiz is still flickering with notify-osd?
<pitti> so keeping support for the i8xx chips has become pretty much a community effort nwo
<rickspencer3> mdz: to them, the fix is to buy a shiny new card that works with their new code
<pitti> mvo: oh, is it? I thought that was fixed for good?
<mdz> rickspencer3: more like a new motherboard or laptop :-/
<pitti> mdz: which isn't entirely out of Intel's interest..
<pitti> </snide remark>
<mvo> pitti: yes, should be fixed
<lool> exactly what I was thinking :)
<pitti> mvo: right, what I thought
<slangasek> mvo: yes, pitti was commenting that he had closed the bug :)
<pitti> so, option 1 is to transition those people to vesa on upgrades
<pitti> rickspencer3 and I also mentioned short-term contracting a driver developer, but I guess they don't exactly grow on trees
<mvo> aha, sorry. misread the comment then
<mdz> option 2 is to punt and say that it's dead upstream and we can't do much about it
<slangasek> pitti: bug #304871 does show a different error with the new upstream version than it did before, perhaps that's more tractable?
<pitti> mdz: right, that's pretty much option 1 (i. e. at least not entirely break the upgrade)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<mdz> I'm happy for the desktop team to make the call on how to handle it; do we need to discuss more in the meeting?
<pitti> slangasek: I noticed, but to me personally it's just gibberish, I'm afraid; I'll consult with bryce, the last testing results are not even a day old
<slangasek> (there's also wildfire saying that he has "the same failures" after upgrade, but there's no context for what that means since he hadn't previously commented on the bug with any kind of error message...)
<pitti> mdz: not from my side; we can always move them to vesa as a last resort
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> slangasek: Anand Kumria did comment a lot before, and it's not fixed for him either
<slangasek> pitti: he commented a lot, but *none* of his comments link his problem to the error in the bug title
 * ScottK has i865 hardware he can do testing with if needed.
<pitti> ah, I see
<ScottK> (and a related self interest in this getting fixed)
<pitti> ScottK: can't hurt; the bug is about i845, but if it previously failed for you, and now works, that'd be a good sign
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to try to reproduce bug #304871 on his i865 hardware
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to try to reproduce bug #304871 on his i865 hardware
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304871 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i845G] Fatal server error: Couldn't bind memory for BO front buffer (Jaunty)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304871
<ScottK> There were some comments about i865 too.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> list of specs and bugs on our radar <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap>; current high-level status per topic:
<lool> * UNR: good shape; most bugs discovered during testing of this spin are not UNR specific
<lool> * MID image was broken, likely due to the broken deps on lpia which cjwatson fixed recently; Emmet and Steve looking at fixing it and QA (Paul and Tobin) to look at it again on Monday; 345621
<lool> * armel's "iMX51 Babbage" work: providing install media images, general enablement, kernel fixes/debug, integration, installer; good progress, but installer work is the scary part and is late; 345534 and misc others
<lool> * VFP optimized libs: infrastructure now runs fixed kernels \o/  vfp libc pushed, ~4 other remaining libraries to come next week after beta (pango1.0, gtk+2.0, cairo, ffmpeg-debian); relatively low risk as the changes should only add files to the armel binaries; 303232
<lool> * NEON: last minute request to support NEON hwcaps; kernel part uploaded; needs a couple of glibc patches similar to VFP support aimed at just after beta; 343602
<lool> * milestoned bugs: almost no progress, more focus on them once we have a babbage daily image
<lool> * Poulsbo drivers: late, but initial packaging for intrepid seems ready now; needs checking with bryce that it's ok to proceed to similar changes in jaunty, FFE, and actual upload; still seems preferable than a SRU; 335276 for intrepid
<lool> <done with dump>
<mdz> lool: is it still impossible to test UNR using KVM due to the launcher requiring 3D?  that may be a consideration for ISO testing
<cjwatson> lool: also, armel is in bad shape installability-wise right now
<cjwatson> I've been working on fixing some of that stuff up today
<cjwatson> but it will bite any current images
<lool> mdz: I asked qa folks in our team to see whether virutalbox GL support helps
<davidbarth> lool: does it support GL on Linux now?
<lool> cjwatson: Ok; I've seen the number of ftbfs was relatively high yesterday ~350 or so and thought we'd look more into it as we face installability issues when building images and when working on general archive consitency; it has indeed been less of a focus recently
<davmor2> I'm sure most people who have netbooks can at least test live desktop if not install
<slangasek> lool: 280669, 338148 are not targeted to jaunty (from your roadmap); should they be?
<cjwatson> lool: a lot of it was due to libgnome being outdated, which will be fixed as soon as the armel buildds get unstuck from whatever they're very slowly building at the moment
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<lool> davidbarth: I think it did support a subset, but I only read indirectly about it
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> slangasek: 280669, no; we just owe the kernel team to look at it quickly, but not related to jaunty
<lool> slangasek: 338148, no, just an armel ftbfs which we're trying to get fixed to improve the number of building packages
<slangasek> lool: could you open tasks on 303232 on the libs that are going to be changed, so that the scope of this is more easily apparent?
<lool> slangasek: (These bugs are the ones we visit at our weekly meetings)
<mdz> are we at risk of not having installable armel images for beta?
<lool> slangasek: Ack, action me on it if you mlike
<slangasek> [ACTION] lool to open per-lib tasks on bug #303232
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to open per-lib tasks on bug #303232
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303232 in gcc-4.3 "armel gcc default optimisations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303232
<cjwatson> mdz: I think we'll be OK
<cjwatson> the only reason there hasn't been more progress today yet is that there were a couple of very long-running builds in the queue
<mdz> cjwatson: ok, thanks
<cjwatson> I'll raise a red flag if it's still looking bad on Monday
<lool> mdz: For babbage we're at risk of not having images for beta; for the other targets, we're not outputting isos so they are uninstallable rapidly
<lool> cjwatson: thanks
<lool> did I miss any question?
<slangasek> I don't think so
<slangasek> and... done digesting, so ready to move on
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<slangasek> pgraner: hi
<pgraner> 334994: Degraded RAID boot fails - apw will update with the latest
<pgraner> apw: ^^^^
<apw> that one is in progress.  have just received a kvm image which should
<apw> allow me to reproduce the issue.  looking like an interacton between
<apw> kernel and userspace tools at the moment
<apw> possibly an interaction between the kernel udev and the madmin recovery
<pgraner> LP 326621: kernel support for Ralink rt2870 802.11n - Fix Committed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326621 in linux "Ubuntu lacks support for Ralink rt2870 based 802.11n chipsets" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326621
<mdz> will there be kernel uploads during beta freeze?
<pgraner> we will realistically have at least one
<slangasek> when is that coming?
<pgraner> to deal with issues that pop up
<slangasek> ("today" would be a good answer)
<amitk> slangasek: it should be today
<mdz> what is the status of suspend/resume bugs?
<mdz> given that's a focus area
<pgraner> apw: your turn again
<apw> most of the bugs we have are still being investigate
<apw> we have a lot of bugs, but no real view on a single low haning fix
<apw> we also have those false positives which we will want to push out an
<mdz> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=suspend shows 276 bugs, *lots* of incomplete but a significant number still new
<apw> update to the userspace tools
<apw> yes.  regressions are taking priority at the moment
<mdz> are the suspend/resume regressions tagged as such?
<slangasek> the false-positives are included in that count of 276?
<apw> they will be yes
<mdz> slangasek: yes, I can see several in the list which are open
<mdz> apw commented he thought he had found one of the false positive triggers
<mdz> which sounds like it could affect a lot of folks
<apw> mdz i haven't tagged any as regressions, but that is a fair point and should be done
<apw> yeah i think i have managed to trigger a false positive here, and think i know the underlying cause
<mdz> it should be standard practice in triage to read the comments and if they indicate it's a regression, tag it
<apw> just need to figure out how it gets left in a mess
<slangasek> is there enough information in the false-positives to let QA systematically clean them out?
<apw> mdz agree, my bad
<apw> slangasek, they are indistingishable unless the user knows they didn't suspend
<mdz> slangasek: they generally say "I don't know why I'm seeing this, I didn't notice a problem"
<slangasek> ah
<apw> but we should put together a standard reply and ask qa to do first dibs touch on all of them
<mdz> also, as I mentioned in email to slangasek, I'm concerned about the number of maintainer script failures in the kernel packages
<mdz> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=apport-package
<pgraner> Kernel package installation/upgrade failures https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=apport-package
<slangasek> [LINK] Kernel package installation/upgrade failures https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=apport-package
<MootBot> LINK received:  Kernel package installation/upgrade failures https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=apport-package
<pgraner> I'm asking ogasawara to take a pass thru them and get a better idea of why and how they are happening
<mdz> slangasek: many of them look to be related to update-grub
<mdz> based on a random sampling
<cjwatson> some of those are "victim" failures; the "operation not permitted" ones are due to the casper bug on USB sticks that Evan fixed a little while ago
<ogasawara> pgraner: finding a lot of em are really grub issues
<cjwatson> (I'm not sure why the linux side of that particular bug is still open)
<pgraner> We should have a clear picture early next week
<slangasek> yes; a certain amount of that is inevitable based on the limited improvement we were able to make to update-grub to avoid it silently clobbering configs on upgrade
<mdz> cjwatson: there are also some random program crashes and such
<mdz> but I think there are hints that the maintainer scripts could be made more robust
<cjwatson> ogasawara: bug 292159, for your reference
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292159 in casper "MASTER update-initramfs is disabled since running on a live CD but it is running from a flash drive. " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292159
<ogasawara> cjwatson: yup, saw a few dups of that bug as well
<pitti> I also saw a bug where dpkg was completely hosed
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21112577/DpkgTerminalLog.txt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21112577/DpkgTerminalLog.txt
<mdz> a lot of them are on pre-jaunty kernels
<mdz> not sure if they're old or being reported on stable
<pitti> like someone or something deleted /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list or so
<cjwatson> pitti: right, probably filesystem corruption that will result in a random firehose of bugs to miscellaneous packages
<pitti> I generally find a lot of noise and local corruption issues on those package failures
<cjwatson> me too
<mdz> cjwatson,pitti: let's discuss some heuristics to help filter those out
<mdz> (offline)
<pitti> yeah, and also better log acquisition to do auto-duplication
<mdz> e.g. segfaults should probably never be reported this way
<mdz> if it's a real bug, it'll have its own crash report
<mdz> pitti: yes, it takes a lot of trawling through DpkgTerminalLog.txt to get to the real problem
<mdz> what's the verdict on kerneloops?
<pgraner> kerneloops package. We are continuing to fix bugs. The package will stay in universe for Jaunty, we will MIR for Karmic. Foundations team (Keybuk) will be taking ownership for Karmic.
<mdz> should probably update the MIR bug accordingly, that's currently an open High importance bug
<pitti> it got a lot better with kenvandine_wk's and mdz's fixes yesterday, but it's late indeed
<pgraner> mdz: ack I'll do it after the meeting
<pitti> and either way this isn't something we'd ever want to enable by default in stables anyway
<mdz> I think this is the right thing to do; we didn't get kerneloops working at all until quite late, and it's turning out to have a lot of problems
<pitti> so if we want to enable it for beta and disable it again for final, that'd be acceptable from my POV
<slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to update status on the kerneloops MIR bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to update status on the kerneloops MIR bug
<mdz> pitti: it's not even installed by default at this point (it's in universe), I don't think it's worth trying to add it given the problems
<mdz> but we can invite people to opt in by installing the package if you want
<mdz> maybe in the beta notes?
<pitti> right, some blogging on planet.u.c. might attract just the right interested people
<pitti> sounds good to me
<pgraner> mdz: I'll blog and release note it
<mdz> pitti: we'll probably want to clean up the suspend/resume bugs first, since they currently share the same tag (is there a bug open about that?)
<slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to draft beta release note entry inviting users to install kerneloops
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to draft beta release note entry inviting users to install kerneloops
<pgraner> mdz: rtg was fixing it
<pgraner> mdz: I'll open a bug to be sure
<mdz> pgraner: if it requires more than a trivial change to the script, he should probably reach out to pitti
<davidbarth> pgraner: make sure you take the patch for the dialog box (should be integrated since yesterday); ie don't rely on the fallback dialog on n.osd
<mdz> davidbarth: yes, that's done
<pitti> indeed, they are still apport.report.Report(type='KernelOops')
<pitti> they shouldn't be
<pgraner> mdz: ack
<pitti> mdz: it's not truly trivial, since the type determines some UI strings
<pgraner> davidbarth: got it
<slangasek> pitti: is there an action item there for you?
<pitti> slangasek: I guess so
<pgraner> slangasek: for me to file a bug and get some help
<apw> pitti, is not the error there tho, that its KernelOoops in stead of KernelProblem
<apw> not that the share a type
<pitti> apw: well, but the Type: field determines thet ag
<slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to file a bug regarding wrong tag on kernel suspend/resume bugs and solicit pitti's help
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to file a bug regarding wrong tag on kernel suspend/resume bugs and solicit pitti's help
<mdz> apw: KernelProblem isn't a valid type, only KernelCrash and KernelOops
<pitti> apw: and if you want to tell apart suspend/resume problems from oopses, they need to have a different type, so that they get a different tag
<mdz> (neither of which is appropriate for a suspend/resume failure)
<pitti> apw: or do you want to filter by bug title?
<mdz> pitti/apw: (offline?)
<pitti> ack
<slangasek> please take further discussion out of band, we're running behind
<pgraner> An FYI for everyone, the MX51 kernel will *not* have AppArmor enabled, it has huge issues on ARM. amitk can provide details offline if anyone is interested.
<apw> ack
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<cjwatson> so due to me screwing up the time I don't have our release status page updated, sorry about that; but the bug count is quite low so I'll just comment here
<cjwatson> 44194 - moves of various libraries to /lib in the archive now, but wpasupplicant still needs to be syslogified before we can fix this; apparently this has now landed upstream which should make it straightforward to finish off after beta
<cjwatson> 323108 - mvo just hasn't quite had time yet, but will look at it tomorrow or early next week and is still optimistic for beta; not as important as it looks since update-notifier will nag about it eventually
<cjwatson> 334284 - evand has made this a lot better than it was, but it's still a bit off. We'll finish this after beta
<cjwatson> also still trying to get 337306 fixed, which is quite nasty for server OEM users
<cjwatson> and a couple of us have been beating on the lpia shlibdeps problem that doko identified, which has required a number of rebuilds
<cjwatson> slangasek gave us approval to keep going on that into beta freeze, since we were over halfway through already, so hopefully we'll finish that
<cjwatson> finally have also been trying to beat down the number of uninstallables across the board to achieve some kind of reasonable archive consistency for beta
<cjwatson> Debian added some new sections to their archive recently, which caught us a bit by surprise and meant that a few recent syncs/merges have failed
<slangasek> the lpia rebuilds are rather beta-critical, to the extent that they might leave packages installable but missing libs
<cjwatson> the Soyuz guys are dealing with that as a matter of urgency and I've moved all our existing packages out of the obsolete 'base' section, which in fairness we ought to have done years ago
<slangasek> (at least for anything in the default system)
<cjwatson> right, some of that has been slowed by running into build failures
<cjwatson> which tuned me into the uninstallables problem on ports
<cjwatson> but no major worries from our team AFAICS, beyond that
<slangasek> 334284 - seems like a rather high-profile installer UI blemish, should we release-note that for beta as well?
<cjwatson> it is, although the points are much less far out than they were in an earlier version
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> but yes, I think that will probably deserve a release note; action me
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to document bug #334284 for beta release notes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to document bug #334284 for beta release notes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334284 in ubiquity "Timezone map cities are incorrectly placed" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334284
<cjwatson> I'm done, if you want to move on
<slangasek> yep, no other questions here - thansk
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates> hi
<dendrobates> kirkland has turned over some debugging infor to Andy on  bug 334994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334994 in linux "Degraded RAID boot fails: kobject_add_internal failed for dev-sda1 with -EEXIST, don't try to register things with the same name in the same directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334994
<dendrobates> Apart from that we seem to be ok.
<dendrobates> the likewise-open ffe went through this week.
<mdz> dendrobates: please read the agenda; there's a bug on there requesting status from you
<slangasek> I think I saw some bug states moving around on #341159?
<mdz> 341159: dkms handling of non-default kernel flavors
<slangasek> dendrobates: I don't recall seeing a likewise-open FFe bug, and I still see likewise-open 4.1 in jaunty - what do you mean "went through"?
<mdz> slangasek: dendrobates said earlier this week that likewise-open 5 was going to universe, and we are staying with v4 for 9.04
<dendrobates> slangasek: we are keeping 4.1 in main and putting 5 in universe
<slangasek> right, status on 341159 is "wontfixed the other tasks"
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> that explains why I wasn't seeing it where I was looking :)
<slangasek> has likewise-open5 gotten its pam integration fixed?
<dendrobates> slangasek: yes, but it does not cleanly upgrade from 4.1, hence the universe.
<mdz> dendrobates: there are several High bugs on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<slangasek> ok
<dendrobates> sbug 341159
<dendrobates> bug 341159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 341159 in kvm "package kvm-source 1:84+dfsg-0ubuntu7 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341159
<mdz> and 18 Undecided
<mdz> dendrobates: ayt?
<dendrobates> mdz: I haven't had time to review all the bugs since my return, my team reported no critical bugs.
<mdz> I understand IS testing will begin very soon, please make sure that any resulting bugs end up on your radar
<dendrobates> mdz: ack
<slangasek> moving on?
<dendrobates> yep
<mdz> no more from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> hello
<ScottK> Python 2.6 is still the main source of excitement.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK> There's plenty left to do and I imagine there will be until final freeze.
<ScottK> Process wise we've started public discussion of a motu-release charter.
<doko> ScottK: are these not yet converted packages? or packages where upstream doesn't have 2.6 support yet?
<ScottK> Up to now we've pretty much just done stuff ....
<ScottK> doko: It's a mix.
<slangasek> bug #338079 is the high-profile python-4suite 2.6 compat bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338079 in python-4suite "[Jaunty] packages incompatible with python 2.6" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338079
<ScottK> Personally I haven't had a lot of time to spend on it this week as $WORK has gotten busy.
<ScottK> This still unresolved, but at least upstream has shown some interest.
<ScottK> I don't think there's anything else that needs to be brought up.
<slangasek> hmm, upstream seems to be unable to reproduce the build hangs that I saw; is someone (dktrkranz?) taking responsibility for interfacing with upstream on that bug?
<ScottK> Yes.  So work is being done, but no idea if we'll get it sorted.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> I should probably toss in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/MOTUReleaseCharter if anyone is interested.
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/MOTUReleaseCharter
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/MOTUReleaseCharter
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<slangasek> as noted earlier, we have some work to do on triaging the regression-potential bugs; overall these seem to be under control
<mdz> slangasek: I just noticed they don't show up on the weather report, and perhaps it would be useful if they did?
<slangasek> there were very few bugs that needed to be highlighted for alpha6, those that were are pretty well-known by this point
<mdz> slangasek: shameless plug for bug 328035?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328035 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "*** glibc detected *** free(): invalid next size (fast) for xf86Wakeup() call" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328035
<slangasek> mdz: I don't think it's a good "weather" indicator since we don't expect to be completely regression-free as a criterion for release; I prefer to just make sure the regressions get release-targeted if they're critical
<mdz> slangasek: maybe regression-potential+>=High would be useful
<slangasek> mdz: well, I'll continue abusing my video inputs today, but I can't reproduce that bug now so I think it's all on you :)
<mdz> slangasek: do you have a simple method to determine whether a random crash is caused by that bug or something else?
<mdz> I only noticed by stracing
<mdz> (bah, let's take this out of band)
<slangasek> ack
<ScottK> If we're shamelessly plugging, I'll throw out Bug 290153.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
<slangasek> regression-potential+high - I think it's still possible we would release with such a bug in some reasonable cases, so the weather report would never go green for that item
<sbeattie> ScottK: wasn't that also a problem in intrepid?
<ScottK> sbeattie: It is.  It's a regression from hardy that's still unresolved.
<sbeattie> ScottK: generally, we tag those as regression-release, to differentiate from regressions introduced by the current development release.
<ScottK> Two weeks ago I got told it should have both tags.
<mdz> sbeattie: you will triage the list and ensure they all have importance set, yes?
<sbeattie> mdz: yes
<mdz> dendrobates: there are several regressions assigned to canonical-server
<mdz> dendrobates: these need your attention to assign them out to your team
<mdz> I see two New/Undecided hotkey regressions on the list
<mdz> slangasek: I find http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html a more useful overview than the launchpad URL you gave in the agenda
<mdz> (e.g. it shows assignee)
<mdz> there are quite a few with no assignee; who is expected to do that? sbeattie?
<sbeattie> mdz: yes.
<pitti> slangasek: speaking of hotkeys, with acpi-fakekey not working, does it make much sense to keep those bits in acpi-support?
<mdz> sbeattie: I count 25 unassigned
<pitti> I guess many hotkey regressions are coming from that, since acpi-support doesn't actually work any more
<slangasek> hmm; I continue to assume that the regression lists are intended primarily as input into the release targeting process
<slangasek> pitti: which bits, acpi-fakekey itself or scripts that use it?
<pitti> slangasek: both actually
<slangasek> pitti: I think it's useful to keep the latter as documentation until we can move it somewhere else
<pitti> slangasek: given that the scripts don't work if acpi-fakekey doesn't work?
<slangasek> pitti: also, there's a chance that acpi-fakekey *happens* to work for some systems+keys
<pitti> slangasek: oh, does it? okay; I thought it was completely broken
<slangasek> sbeattie, ScottK: I think it's reasonable for release regressions still present in the current release to also carry the regression-potential tag?
<slangasek> anyway, need to move on here, still have one more item and it's non-null :P
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> the Ubuntu dailies have all gone oversized in the past week
<cjwatson> this is mostly delta language packs, isn't it?
<slangasek> and unfortunately it happened all at once when some deps that were mysteriously absent from the ISO popped back in and added 5MB, so I don't know (yet) where the size went
<mdz> can you attribute the increase to something specific?
<cjwatson> I admit I haven't done a detailed comparison
<mdz> cjwatson: do you have a script for that?
<cjwatson> mdz: slangasek does, cd-size-analysis on antimony
<slangasek> I'm going to work on getting us to where we can get ongoing meaningful comparisons of package sizes
<slangasek> that script depends on the .debs being on disk still
<cjwatson> right
<slangasek> so fails miserably in many cases
<cjwatson> we're due new base language packs on Monday, in any case
<slangasek> anyway, it could be langpacks, in which case we'll see significant improvement with the full langpack export which I believe is in progress now
<slangasek> other than that... now is not a good time to ask to add anything to the CDs ;)
<slangasek> and I'll hopefully know more by Monday
<slangasek> but as usual, if anyone has brilliant ideas for saving space...
<cjwatson> slangasek: are you taking the action to look into this in more detail, or do I/somebody-else need to?
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to find out where our CD space went
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to find out where our CD space went
<slangasek> that's it, then
<slangasek> AOB?
<pitti> slangasek: I can probably squeeze out 0.5 MB of live CD space with some package fixes to remove gconf translations
<pitti> (compiz, totem, mousetweaks, devhelp)
<pitti> ah, devhelp isn't on CD
<slangasek> .5MB> I expect that's worth doing
<pitti> there's not a lot of air left in /usr/share/gconf/schemas/, though
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> ok - any other space-saving schemes we can discuss out-of-band
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<slangasek> thanks, all
<lool> mdz: ( http://vbox.innotek.de/pipermail/vbox-announce/2009-March/000013.html )
<lool> 3D support in linux hosts in dev release
<GrueMaster> lool:  VirtualBox has had GL support on the Linux Host since 2.1 (maybe 2.0).  What 2.2 adds is GL support to the Linux Client drivers.
<GrueMaster> (I know because I have been using it since 2007).
<lool> GrueMaster: Are you sure?  I read earlier a news from december 2008 that it just got GL guest support but only for windows hosts
<lool> and then this news that they add GL support for linux hosts
<lool> GrueMaster: Ah perhaps it's virtualbox versus virtualbox-ose
<GrueMaster> possible.
<GrueMaster> The note I see (from your link is "* OpenGL 3d acceleration for Linux guests "
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-21
<wolter> hi, could someone please update the american regional boards to set the date for the next meeting?
<leoquant> @schedule
<leoquant> ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-03-22
<JomLinux> sape dari Msia?
<JomLinux> anyone from asia?
<jomlinux> hi
<jomlinux> auto-identify'
<jomlinux> anyone read my message here? please pm me
<jomlinux> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-22
<Lonely-Troll> Hi! Nice to meet you
<Lonely-Troll> Who is here? is it a deathly channel?
<kees> mdeslaur: quick meeting?
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> 2 person meeting will be quick indeed :)
 * robbiew is here btw
<mdeslaur> kees: yep!
<mdeslaur> jdstrand is still on vacation?
<kees> mdeslaur: yeah, he's out today, back tomorrow.
 * jjohansen waves
<kees> mdeslaur: and yeah, I'm cool with triage again -- there are some bugs I wanted to examine more closely
<mdeslaur> kees: okay, cool
<kees> uhm, let's see.  I'm going to try to crank out the various updates that are medium-priority embargoed-by-us issues that came in through LP a few weeks ago
<kees> I think there are 3?  I'll re-check the list
<kees> other than that, I'll be looking at beta bugs
<kees> your turn!  :)
<mdeslaur> I am currently adding to the samba test script to get the updates I made tested
<mdeslaur> and should be releasing them this week
<mdeslaur> and will then see how to test puppet
<mdeslaur> which I'll probably be releasing this week also
<kees> cool
<mdeslaur> and I'll go down the list after that...nothing special on my agenda besides updates
<kees> excellent.  jjohansen, robbiew: anything you guys want to bring up?  (or anyone else?)
<jjohansen> not me
<robbiew> nuthin from me
 * robbiew apologizes for not sending out the weekly summary reports...and will get one out today :/
<kees> alrighty then!  quick meeting is quick.  :)  thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-23
<elky> TheMuso, hi
<TheMuso> elky: Hi, no aplicants.
<TheMuso> applicants even
<ZachK_> Hello?
<elky> TheMuso, it seems that way.
<elky> ZachK_, hi?
<ZachK_> meeting?
<ZachK_> Was wondering if ya'll are considering people for Ubuntu Membership......
<elky> ZachK_, if they're on the agenda, we do. Nobody is on our agenda today though.
<ZachK_> I thought i was....coulda sworn I had edited it....probably forgot to...
<elky> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania is the page you need to put details on so we can consider you next time.
<ZachK_> dang...
<elky> Did you maybe put it on another board's page?
<ZachK_> elky: nope........completely forgot.....was intending to do so....
<ZachK_> Ah well....
<elky> ZachK_, sorry. we don't even have quorum anyway, so you haven't missed really. put your stuff up there now and we'll see you in a fortnight, ok? :)
<ZachK_> ah ok....
<ZachK_> when is the next meeting?
<elky> One fortnight from this moment.
<elky> I think....
<elky> Yes, pretty sure.
<ZachK_> fortnight is two weeks right?
<elky> yes
<ZachK_> cool....
<ZachK_> thanks....
<ZachK_> gonna add myself now
<elky> Thanks :)
<lifeless> \o/
<persia> OOps!
<elky> wait, we have quorum?
<persia> Sorry about that.
<elky> That's ok, he hadn't added himself anyway. not sure opening the floodgates to walk-ins is really worth it
<persia> I'd much prefer not to do that, just on general principles.
<elky> Yeah
<elky> Once you do it once...
<persia> But I still feel bad for being late.
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * ogra waves
<JamieBennett> moo
 * GrueMaster blinks
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100323
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100323
<dyfet> rubs eyes
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] GrueMaster & plars to investigate imx51 suspend issue
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster & plars to investigate imx51 suspend issue
<plars> seems to be fixed, from my perspective
<plars> tested a new kernel
<plars> this time, not just backing out patches, but with an actual fix
<plars> in both cases, I am no longer able to reproduce the bug
 * davidm needs coffee
<ogra> ++
<GrueMaster> davidm: grab me a cup, please.
<plars> GrueMaster: ? are you still seeing it though?  iirc you were still able to reproduce it even with some of the kernels where I was not seeing it
<GrueMaster> I was going to look yesterday, but got pulled away.  I'll look at it now.
<GrueMaster> yesterday's image works for me.
<GrueMaster> I'll run your checkbox test later for more thorough testing.
<asac> hi
 * NCommander waits for the goahead to move on
<plars> great!
<asac> NCommander: sending a round ping to all before starting would be a good addition to your services
<GrueMaster> Roll on one.
<asac> :)
<plars> NCommander: I think we're done
<NCommander> [topic] persia to bring remove any unneeded images from antimony
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to bring remove any unneeded images from antimony
<persia> StevenK: killed the last of them yesterday.
<persia> We ended up a bit delayed because of beta, but we're down to six images.
 * ogra will add more :P
 * persia dreams of kernel unification
 * NCommander +1s that dream
<StevenK> Yes, it will jump up to 9
<StevenK> Soon
<asac> persia: what images got killed?
<StevenK> asac: ubuntu-desktop alternate
<ogra> well, if we ever get a working kernel for omap at least
<asac> kk
<asac> ok
<asac> can we move on?
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<asac> ok seems all is waiting for me ;)
<asac> StevenK: is the webservice office part seeded?
<ogra> slacker !
<ogra> :)
<plars> heh
<StevenK> Is it in main yet?
<asac> StevenK: it has an approved MIR
<asac> dyfet:  Package and maintain Canola and deps in a ppa
<asac> whats going on there?
<StevenK> asac: Okay, give me the bug number and I'll sort it out tomorrow
<StevenK> Promotion, seeding, etc, etc
<asac> StevenK: guess the only bug open against webservice-office-zoho ;)
<dyfet> We are not packaging the current canola stuff
<StevenK> I was guessing you had the bug number handy. Guess not. :-P
<dyfet> At least outside of a ppa
<JamieBennett> StevenK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/webservice-office-zoho/+bug/537323
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 537323 in webservice-office-zoho "[MIR] Main inclusion request for webservice-office-zoho" [High,Fix released]
<asac> dyfet: that task is about getting the stuff in a ppa
<dyfet> It is in a ppa now for lucid :)
<asac> dyfet: which ppa?
<dyfet> We were hoping to archive it for lucid though
<asac> no archive was off the plate for a bit
<dyfet> It's a temporary one I setup...I can send you the url in just a sec
<asac> dyfet: please post that as a status update to the blueprint and set your work item to DONE
<dyfet> asac: https://launchpad.net/~dyfet/+archive/canola2 - okay, will do
<asac> dyfet: are all the packages in there, not in the archive?
<asac> or are some updates/patched packages?
<dyfet> They are all there and updated for current packaging policies
<dyfet> Originally I was hoping to push them to revu...
<asac> dyfet: i mean: is there any package in the ppa that isnt in the archvie?
<asac> err
<ogra> heh
<asac> any package that also is in the archive ;)
<dyfet> Probably not
<asac> i want to understand if all packages are NEW
<dyfet> Yes they are all new
<asac> ok
<asac> dyfet: so what makes you think this is not going to happen in the archive?
<dyfet> Because most are packages that are now abandoned
<asac> i dont understand that
<asac> please elaborate ;)
<dyfet> That is canola2 is being written using different dependencies
<dyfet> (re-written)
<asac> who is leading that effort
<dyfet> So episilon and all the etk stuff are dead-end packages
<asac> ?
<dyfet> I have to go back into my email...
<asac> lets take that offline
<asac> thanks for the update
<dyfet> okay :)
<NCommander> can I move on?
<asac> yes next standing item please
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
<cooloney> hi guys
<asac> hi cooloney
<cooloney> no much from my side
<asac> cooloney: one question
<cooloney> i think we fixed the suspend/resume regression
<cooloney> asac: yeah,
<asac> cooloney: do you have getting the NEON thing into karmic-proposed on your plate?
<asac> the kernel was dropped because of security update
<asac> and now we need to get that in again as some folks need that ;)
<ogra> asac, i thought smb wanted to care for it
<cooloney> asac: i did not track that, i assume it was in karmic-proposed already
<asac> ogra: nothing happened
<cooloney> right, smb helped that i think
<asac> cooloney: it was in tehre, got dropped and yesterday nothing has happened
<asac> cooloney: can you drive this? e.g. poke smb etc.?
<cooloney> actually, i did not test karmic for several weeks
<cooloney> asac: no problem, please an action item for me
<cooloney> s/an/add
<asac> [ACTION] cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
<ogra> i just pinged him in the other channel, please take over  :)
<asac> NCommander: ^
<cooloney> ogra: thanks man
<asac> cooloney: suspend/resume: did you close the bug?
<asac> ;)
<cooloney> asac: yeah, it should be close since the patch was merged
<asac> found that kernel bugs often dont get closed when they are fixed
<asac> cool
<NCommander> [action] cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
<GrueMaster> asac: Little premature.  Let me run the test suite today first.
<asac> cooloney: ok.thanks
<asac> ericm isnt here
<asac> lets  move on then
<ogra> amitk isnt either :(
<plars> GrueMaster: I believe it's just going into proposed at this point
 * ogra would like an update on the omap kernel
<ogra> we need to invite him for future meetings
 * asac takes care that they get in next time
<asac> [ACTION] ncommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk
<NCommander> [ACTION] ncommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ncommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk
<NCommander> asac: ericm should be here
<ogra> he has a standing invite
<asac> NCommander: not for me ;)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
 * asac hands mic to GrueMaster 
 * ogra moves to the edge of his seat in awe and excitement
<GrueMaster> Beta 1 looks very solid.  Still some bugs to work on, but major progress towards image stability has been made.
<plars> beta testing done, netboot images failed pretty badly, other than that, and a carried over bug on imx51 (dup of a non-arm specific bug) images were in pretty good shape
<plars> suspend/resume results have started to show up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Testing
<asac> GrueMaster: any bugs of particual interest that need to be worked/discussed?
<ogra> cooloney asked about a graphics issue on imx51 recently
<ogra> that seemsed to show up since plymouth changed
<plars> I was unable to reproduce that on babbage 3, but he mentioned that he was on 2.5
<cooloney> ogra: sorry,
<GrueMaster> We are still having sound issues on Dove.
<cooloney> i did apt-get dist-upgrade
<cooloney> now it works fine
<ogra> ok
<ogra> then i'll count that as a non-issue :D
<plars> GrueMaster: sound issues are on both imx51 and dove
<asac> same issues?
<plars> but yes, I've done some more debugging on the dove one, and need to go get straces now
<asac> all pulseaudio related?
<plars> unless someone beats me to it
<plars> seems so,k yes
<cooloney> ogra: do you have any feedback about the regular issue from fsl?
<asac> plars: do we have simple test cases in the bugs?
<plars> asac: yes
<cooloney> regulator
<cooloney> sorry
<plars> very
<ogra> cooloney, nope, we pointed it out in the last call but no answer yet
<ogra> asac, ^^^ lets poke again tonight
<cooloney> ogra: got you
<asac> yeah
<ogra> and start considering it as nice-to-have probably
<GrueMaster> The sound bug on Dove is Bug #528524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528524 in pulseaudio "Sound not working in all apps on dove" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528524
<ogra> i.e. make it vanish from the action items
<ogra> s/action/work/
<asac> plars: the checkbox result pacge.
<asac> maybe this can have an executive summary on top?
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Testing/SusresResults/imx51-20100318
<asac> thats where i am looking at
<plars> asac: the easiest thing to do is to click on "questions"
<plars> and focus on that section for results
<persia> Sound issues on specific hardware are very unlikely to be related to pulseaudio in anyway.  It's most likely an ASoC issue or some mismatch between ALSA lib versions.
<plars> I basically just convert the output to a wiki format as best as possible with my rudimentary knowledge of xslt
<asac> well. pulse needs some sophisitaction of the drivers
<asac> mighzt be that ours are just too dumb ;)
<asac> plars: yeah tahts fine
<asac> plars: what are we doing with those that failed?
<persia> asac: pulse *doesn't* have drivers.  ALSA/ASoC do.
<asac> persia: yes, but the issue is still a pulse issue as its unconvered by it ;)
<asac> sure its a driver issue in the end
<asac> just a pulse specific one ;)
<plars> asac: bugs are in for them, I'll try to go back and update with the bug #'s... at least one failed because of something I need to fix in the test.  I'll get that fixed up and update
<asac> (if its pulse related at all)
<persia> I guess, but it can't be fixed in pulseaudio, so I still say the bug isn't targeted properly :)
<asac> plars: the "wait a bit after resume so the CPU settled" fix?
<plars> asac: yes, exactly
<plars> really just needed in that one case
<plars> because of timing
<asac> persia: well. pulseaudio folks are best to analyze that imo as they are the ones that know what the driver needs to support ...
<asac> persia: but yeah we can move it to alsa
<asac> the alsa folks should be aware now ;)
<asac> ok lets move on
<persia> Is it ALSA or ASoC for that board?
<asac> cooloney: ?
<cooloney> persia: is ASoC
<cooloney> actually ASoC is a sub system of ALSA in kernel
<asac> what does it stand for?
<persia> Right, so let's retarget it to "linux-mvl-..."
<cooloney> it's good for SoC's
<persia> ALSA System On a Chip
<cooloney> ALSA SoC = ASoC
<cooloney> yeah
<cooloney> System on Chip
<asac> if we target it aganist linux-mvl- ... this has to be fixed by mvl
<asac> if we use alsa, some random guy might have some ideas - guess the code is public
<ogra> linux-mvl- is too
<asac> ogra: yes, but noone knowing anything about sound is subscribed to that package
<persia> And it's 90% likely to be an issue with quirking in the ASoC stuff.
 * GrueMaster is going to regret this but...
<persia> asac: If you want crimsun to look at the bug, that's just a matter of asking :)
<GrueMaster> How about if I check the latest alsa?
<persia> GrueMaster: That's another good idea.
<asac> GrueMaster: how much time would that take?
 * asac doorbell
<ogra> ALSA or ASoC dorbell ?
<GrueMaster> asac: I don't know off hand.  Need to download the code and build against current kernel.  Also will need the existing audio disabled in the kernel.  two days for build time?
<asac> lets first get crimsun etc. comment on the bug
<persia> GrueMaster: Take care: if it's ASoC, ALSA trunk won't help much.
<asac> and then decide what to do
<plars> asac: he has been looking at it
<GrueMaster> persia: why do you say that?
<asac> plars: what did he say?
<plars> asac: next thing he asked for was a stack trace
<plars> that was last night, and I haven't had a chance yet
<asac> ok cool. do what he says for now
<persia> GrueMaster: Last I heard, ASoC included a number of patches to some ALSA stuff that meant it was better to pull ASoC trunk than ALSA trunk to play.  I may not be current, or I may even be wrong.
<plars> asac: I will do it this morning
<asac> [ACTION] plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
<asac> NCommander: ^^
<asac> thanks
<asac> lets move on ;)
<GrueMaster> I've seen a bunch of ASOC patches fly through the alsa mailing list recently.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
<NCommander> [ACTION] plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
<cooloney> yeah, ASoC is in the heavy development
<cooloney> since it supports hundreds of SOC and hundreds of CODEC
<persia> Yeah.
<JamieBennett> Not much to report, webservice-office-zoho needs seeding and this branch needs sponsoring: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jamiebennett/+junk/webservice-office-zoho.auto.distutils
<persia> Moving on ...
<cooloney> but for userspace, it is supposed to be the same as alsa
<cooloney> ok
<asac> JamieBennett: can you produce the packaging?
<asac> e.g. the three pieces?
<JamieBennett> asac: OK
<asac> we have to redo the branches and kill the debian/ part of it so i can sponsor it ;)
<JamieBennett> asac: OK I'll chat after the meeting about it
<JamieBennett> move on?
<asac> yes
<JamieBennett> NCommander: ^
<JamieBennett> heh
<ogra> can someone call his mobile ? :P
<JamieBennett> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<plars> yeah, sec
<ogra> we need a remote controlled ship-horn near his laptop :)
<dyfet> I did a number of ftbfs/missing deps last week.  I will list them on the status page
<asac> dyfet: did those get uploaded?
<StevenK> ogra: "foghorn"
<NCommander> sorry
<ogra> StevenK, ah, that was the word, yeah
<dyfet> I know NCommander offered to sponsor a few
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<asac> dyfet: please more aggressively request sponsorship from me too
<dyfet> okay :)
<ogra> StevenK, publically accessible via a webpage (and i'll blog about it :) )
<asac> things shouldnt wait for an upload longer than half a day
 * NCommander got distracted by his other half
<asac> dyfet: which packages are those you fixed? anything from main still?
<StevenK> Huh? ECONTEXT
<dyfet> A couple were from main, including a kde related package
<NCommander> OOo's fix uploaded, and the build broke. Seems to be buildd instability, but will have to watch closely
<ogra> did you see likewise FTBFS ?
 * ogra gave it back, seemed to be a segfault
<ogra> please keep an eye on it though
<NCommander> ogra: do I hadn't
<NCommander> *no
 * dmart reconnects
<asac> so for libplist we ended up in a situation where builders fail
<NCommander> anything else?
<asac> because they dont have thumb support
<ogra> ugh
<asac> its testcases that get sigill
<asac> so its the first time we have that
<ogra> thats the first package we have failing like that
<dmart> Aren't the builders v7?
<ogra> snap
<asac> dmart: kernel isnt
<asac> dmart: i would think
<asac> its pegatron
<NCommander> ogra: can't we disable sigill?
<NCommander> er
<asac> so we can wait for the builder upgrade
<NCommander> *cough*
<NCommander> the test case
 * asac pokes lamont again
<ogra> asac, can we ?
<asac> or use -marm to get that built
<dmart> Thumb-2 in userspace should still be supported.
<ogra> when is that due ?
<dmart> Localised -marm might be OK as a solution
<asac> dmart: it definitly isnt on those machines. it works well here on bbg/dove and in chroots on both
<dmart> Is libplist important?
<asac> when logging into the pegatrons i get SIGILL
<asac> dmart: its in main
<asac> dmart: i fixed endianess for floating point, so at least we should use -marm
<dmart> I mean, is it performance- or code-size- critical in any way?
<ogra> unlikely
<asac> dmart: i dont think so
<asac> its used by:
<asac>   python-imobiledevice
<asac>   libplist-utils
<asac>   libimobiledevice-utils
<asac>   python-gpod
<persia> It's really only important for dealing with client iPods.
<asac>   libplist-dev
<asac>   libplist-dbg
<asac>   libplist++1
<dmart> -marm is probably OK then
<asac>   libplist++-dev
<asac>   libimobiledevice0
<asac>   libgpod4-nogtk
<asac>   libgpod4
<ogra> Description: Library for handling Apple binary and XML property lists
<asac>   libgpod-common
<persia> !paste | asac
<ubottu> asac: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<asac> (sorry for the ast)
<asac> yeah pod
<asac> dmart: ok. lets do that and retry without when we have the bbg builders
<asac> persia: you just created additional noise
<dmart> OK
<asac> for no news ;)
 * asac will upload with -marm
<asac> ok thats it from my side
<ogra> move on ?
<NCommander> [action] asac to upload libplist with -marm
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
 * ogra kicks NCommander 
<ogra> move one back
<asac> what did he skip?
<ogra> image status
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status
<ogra> heh
 * NCommander is not with it this morning
<ogra> imx51 and dove images build stable since several days and look good
<ogra> omap is in preparation
<ogra> x-loader and u-boot are in the archive, MIRs will be filed today
 * dmart has an AOB (delayed by looking up the bug number)
<asac> when do we expect the first images to become available?
<asac> dmart: thats next ;)
<ogra> i'll shove them on asac's desk then
<asac> thanks
<dmart> k
<ogra> the kernel isnt there yet
<ogra> so without kernel no images
<ogra> as soon as its there its a matter of 1-2 days
<asac> ogra: thought the kernel just didnt boot ;)=
<ogra> me working out the image concept and testing it, StevenK committing it to the builders
<asac> e.g. we could get images with a non-booting kernel
<ogra> asac, it has tons of bugs
<ogra> its not in the archive
<asac> right. just wonder why waiting for the kernel blocks finishing all the imaging stuff
<ogra> i wouldnt mind having buggy images
<asac> ah
<ogra> but it needs to be uploaded and go through NEW
<ogra> and we dont have a meta yet
<ogra> which d-i needs
<ogra> for our fallback images
<ogra> everything blocks on that atm
<StevenK> asac: Because I need to see where the kernels lands, main or universe for my livecd-rootfs changes
<StevenK> And a meta package for the kernel
<ogra> StevenK, will be main
<asac> main yeah
<ogra> but meta needs to be there and we need the debian-cd patches
<ogra> or cdimage ... fwiw
<StevenK> Both
<StevenK> I'll upload livecd-rootfs tomorrow
<StevenK> Er, today
<ogra> great
<StevenK> At some point in the next diurnal period
<ogra> so i can roll squashfs'es for testing
<ogra> as soon as we have a kernel
<StevenK> You can't, since it will want the kernel
<StevenK> Ah
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> for image building we should be able to abuse the code dove uses
<asac> ok so imx51/dove are good and we should have an omap image by end of week. sounds good ;)
<ogra> just adding two cp's to get MLO and u-boot in place
<ogra> right
<ogra> move on
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<asac> dmart: ^
<dmart> Thanks ;)
<dmart> I just reconfirmed this one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/443147
<StevenK> ogra: I think about the only thing is how to make the image bootable
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 443147 in firefox-3.5 "Firefox inappropriately adds scroll bars to many frames and images" [Medium,Triaged]
<dmart> It applies to 3.6 too
<dmart> I'm wondering whether the priority should be bumped
<asac> hmm
<asac> found issue?
<ogra> StevenK, right, the vfat might need to be special (active and marked bootable or some such)
<asac> let me try
<dmart> The pain really starts when Google maps starts drawing balloons
<StevenK> ogra: Anyway, you and I can sort that out once we have a kernel
<ogra> StevenK, beyond that we only need to copy the two binaries into the vfat in the right order (MLO needs to be in the first sectors of the image)
<ogra> right
<asac> dmart: i dont see it if i start it through ssh
<asac> dmart: thats bbg?
<dmart> Yes, hang on I'll see what happens with ssh for me...
<asac> the chromium dove issue definitly persists through ssh
<asac> so if this doesnt it means its coming from X server somehow
<asac> try setting browser.zoom.full to false in about:config
<asac> and zoom out using ctrl--
<asac> maybe it goes away with smaller fonts?
<asac> hmm i see it on google maps
 * NCommander notes we're now over
<NCommander> asac: can you take this discussion offline?
<asac> yeah. that bug should get upstreamed
<asac> and so on
<asac> wilil follow up
<NCommander> anything else to be brought up quickly?
<asac> nope
<asac> go ahead and close the meeting ;)
<NCommander> [action] asac and dmart to follow up on firefox bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac and dmart to follow up on firefox bug
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:02.
<dmart> asac, I'll follow up with you on this in a moment
<asac> yeah
<GrueMaster> Also, I will hopefully have the equipment to reproduce/debug Bug #519905 this week.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 519905 in linux-fsl-imx51 "Slow Ethernet throughput and framing errors when connected via a hub" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/519905
<kees> \o
<ogra> GrueMaster, cool
<dmart> GrueMaster: cool, it would be good to progress that one
<ogra> (lets take that to -arm)
<cjwatson> Google calendar says the TB meeting is now, but surely this is a DST error
<cjwatson> it is usually at 1500 UTC
<kees> cjwatson: why is google calendar so unfriendly?
<cjwatson> I wish I knew
<kees> :)
<kees> should we do 1500 then?
<cjwatson> unfriendly because it made you get up for 6am?
<persia> IT used to be at 14:00, and then moved to 15:00 for winter time.  Is it not expected to move back (admittedly in another week or so)
<GrueMaster> Google calendar doesn't understand UTC
<cjwatson> or is it 7am
<cjwatson> persia: are you sure?  I thought it was scheduled in UTC
<kees> cjwatson: luckily, it's unfriendly and follows US DST, so I got up at the same time.  :P
<kees> (7am)
<persia> cjwatson: Yes, I'm sure.  I'm not sure *when* it moved from 14:00 to 15:00 though: it may not have been this most recent fall.
<cjwatson> hmm.  I looked at a random point in September and it was 1500 then, presumably BST, so I guess that would be 1400 UTC
 * kees wonders if could set it to Reykjavik's timezone, as they are UTC with no DST
<kees> *if we ...
<persia> kees: No.  It seems to autodetect desired DST based on the last person to update it.
<cjwatson> we don't have much on the agenda, so if everyone's here we can go ahead, otherwise next hour
<kees> persia: ewww
<kees> cjwatson: I will need to vanish for another appointment in an hour, but it's flexible.
<cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk: here?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: err?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I have TB in my calendar at 1500
<cjwatson> Keybuk: interesting, it lies differently to different people
 * pitti didn't even know that it'll move UTC time, but I'm here now
<cjwatson> 14:06 <cjwatson> we don't have much on the agenda, so if everyone's here we can go ahead, otherwise next hour
<persia> Just for the record, my recollection was the the TB meeting followed British time.
<Keybuk> UTC time hasn't changed
<Keybuk> only the US has changed
<cjwatson> Keybuk: yes, I know gcal is hopelessly buggy
<Keybuk> but I'm here now ;)
<cjwatson> I swear it shows it as 1400 here even though it probably shouldn't, and it shows the current time as 140something
<Keybuk> and quite happy for us to do it here and now
<Keybuk> on the floor if needsbe
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:11. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<cjwatson> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy  upstream is http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Minor_Point_Release_Policy/Draft; Riddell to get agreement with KDE on point release criteria
<cjwatson> Riddell: any progress on this?
 * cjwatson times out
<cjwatson> dholbach to finalise LeadershipAppointment page, and close bug on sabdfl role in TB
<cjwatson> the latter has been done, not sure about the former
<dholbach> cjwatson: sorted out
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing
<cjwatson> great, thank you
<cjwatson> cjwatson to implement edubuntu-dev delegations
<cjwatson> done today
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<cjwatson> none
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<pitti> (nothing from me, FTR)
<cjwatson> I took the liberty of removing archive reorganisation from the standing actions list; we seem to be doing fine at bringing up individual items when they're needed
<pitti> ah, that sounds fine; at this point it wasn't really clear any more what to discuss about it
<pitti> thanks
<cjwatson> also, sabdfl needs to write up the last set of minutes :-)
<cjwatson> [ACTION] sabdfl to write up minutes from 2010-03-09 meeting, or delegate
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to write up minutes from 2010-03-09 meeting, or delegate
<cjwatson> I fished them out of irclogs.u.c
<cjwatson> OK, doesn't sound like anything else
<Keybuk> I'm next alphabetically?
<cjwatson> kees is
<kees> whee
<Keybuk> oh yes, e < y
<cjwatson> Keybuk: did you reach a decision on whether you were going to continue as a member of the TB?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I am going to try and find enough time to do it
<Keybuk> and see how that goes ;-)
<cjwatson> OK, great, glad to hear it
<Keybuk> in general, I need to do less better
<cjwatson> right, I guess that's it, I'll half-expect to need to chair another meeting in 40 minutes' time ;-)
<cjwatson> I know the feeling ...
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:20.
<pitti> that was a quick one
<mdz> cjwatson: hi
<pitti> thanks everyone
<mdz> I guess I missed it
<pitti> mdz: we had long debates, and a real flamewar :)
<cjwatson> mdz: ah, I just replied to your SMS
<mdz> cjwatson, pitti, Keybuk, hi
<cjwatson> hello; are we going round again?
<mdz> cjwatson: it was a bit unclear from scrollback
<mdz> and I missed the previous meeting, so I'm lacking context
<mdz> it looks like a lot of things have vanished from the agenda page
<mdz> does that mean they're completed?
<cjwatson> Google Calendar was hopelessly confused and was displaying 1400 UTC for some people and 1500 UTC for others, so since we had a quorum with four people we decided to go ahead
<cjwatson> I flushed the agenda based on what seemed to have been done
<cjwatson> also
<cjwatson> 14:16 <cjwatson> I took the liberty of removing archive reorganisation from the standing actions list; we seem to be doing fine at bringing up individual items when they're needed
<cjwatson> feel free to restore that if you disagree, it just seems to have been handled adequately otherwise
<cjwatson> as far as I know my agenda changes were accurate aside from that
<mdz> cjwatson: ok
<cjwatson> we voted in the units policy last time, and approved edubuntu-dev delegation
<cjwatson> sabdfl was the chair so the minutes have not been written up ;-)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: minutes were withheld for tax reasons?
<JFo> o/
<smb> \O
<amitk> o/
<kamalm-away> o/
 * ogasawara waves
<cnd> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: cking, rtg, apw and manjo are all out today
<bjf> #
 * jjohansen waves
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
<JFo> yep, I failed in that.
<bjf> will carry it over
<JFo> I need to get with pgraner on the schedule going forward
<JFo> ok
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
<JFo> this item is in progress
<JFo> please carry firward
<bjf> will carry it over :-)
<JFo> forward*
<JFo> :)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs, 3 blueprints)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (108 bugs against all packages)
<JFo>  * 13 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (300 bugs against all packages)
<JFo>  * 30 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 0 blueprints
<JFo>     
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:119 (up 4)
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
<bjf> i'm assuming nothing new here
<smb> I guess all in good shape
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
<sconklin> Testing of the beta has been mostly good so far, I have a couple of "blank screen on install" bugs to look at
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
<jjohansen> another lkml push going out today, will
<jjohansen> also issue pull requests for the bug fixes
<jjohansen> it includes.
<jjohansen> since beta 1 release have picked up
<jjohansen> another couple bugs to look at with security team
<jjohansen> Bug #544819, Bug #544789, Bug #544764
<jjohansen> and there is Bug #529288 which I haven't been able to reproduce and currently looks as if it is caused by memory corruption
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544819 in apparmor "apparmor does not work with midori" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544819
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544789 in apparmor "apparmor-logprof not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544789
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544764 in apparmor "unkillable apparmor_parser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544764
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 529288 in linux ""Kernel Oops" - unable to handle kernel paging request at ffff880323279bf2 RIP is at aa_dfa_match_len+0xd9/0xf0" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529288
<jjohansen> ...
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
<bjf> probably nothing new here
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
<bjf> Still working on the bug survey. I've moved to working on modifications to arsenal
<bjf> scripts to do more of the work. I've done a bit of refactoring of Bryce's process-new-bugs.py
<bjf> script and sent it to him. I'll take his feedback and appy the changes to our scripts
<bjf> as well. I'm trying to make it so we don't fork the scripts quite so much.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
<cnd> sent some patches upstream to pm-utils
<cnd> waiting on feedback
<cnd> will push out a new set of packages when I hear back
<cnd> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> Testing fix for Bug #527208, which also seems to fix Bug #540378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540378 in linux-ec2 "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 66s! [swapper:0]" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540378
<jjohansen> other than those its looking good
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (smb)
<smb> Dapper:      2.6.15-55.83  (security)
<smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.68  (security) *
<smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.46  (security)
<smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (security)
<smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-20.58  (security) *
<smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (updates)  *
<smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-212.26 (security) *
<smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-109.25 (security) *
<smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-305.13 (security) *
<smb> Packages marked with '*' have been uploaded to proposed. Planned acceptance
<smb> into proposed is tomorrow.
<smb> Oops
<smb> Too used to be called only for later
<bjf> :-) fooled you
<smb> Ok, apw uploaded a kernel including 2.6.32.10 and a newer igb driver
<smb> I uploaded meta today so it will probably get offered soonish
<smb> I would gather updates till Friday
<smb> And then do another upload.
<smb> ..
<bjf> was that an abi bumper?
<smb> 2.6.32.10, yes. But even if it would not have been, we would have bumbed
<smb> Just to keep a fallback kernel for people
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> see above.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 328/438 Lucid Bugs (up 110)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential (up 40) ====
<JFo>   * 128 lucid bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-update (up 1) ====
<JFo>   * 12 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
<JFo> ==== regression-release (down 1) ====
<JFo>   * 53 karmic bugs
<JFo>   * 22 jaunty bugs
<JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
<JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed (no change) ====
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
<JFo> please note the big bump in regression potential
<JFo> ..
 * smb notes
<JFo> incoming should only be 438
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> * Today is another Kernel Team 'regression-' bug day. Thanks for working on these last week. I'll be sending out an e-mail this week with the Kernel Team Bug Day schedule for the remainder of the release schedule.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<JFo> o/
<bjf> go JFo
<JFo> I'd like to welcome kamalm to the kernel team
<JFo> :)
<kamalm> thanks!
<amitk> welcome kamalm
<bjf> welcome!
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> bjf: I've got something . . .
<bjf> ogasawara, go
<ogasawara> As apw is away on holiday this week, I'll be filling in for him at the release meeting on Friday.  That means I'll be nagging anyone with unfinished work items from blueprints for status.
<ogasawara> Note that Beta-2 is ~2 weeks away.
<ogasawara> ..
<smb> charming nag :)
<ogasawara> smb: of course :)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:16.
<smb> bjf, Thanks
<JFo> thanks bjf
<kamalm> thanks bjf
<amitk> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks
<psurbhi> thanks bjf
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-24
<lool> heya
<mvo> hello
<barry> hiya
<cjwatson> afternoon
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> let me just quickly create an agenda ...
<ev> hi
<james_w> hi
<tremolux> hey
<cjwatson> this also gives my bug list script a little more time to run
<doko__> hi
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0324
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0324
<cjwatson> Keybuk: here?
<cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
<cjwatson> mvo, slangasek, ev, tremolux, lool, doko, cjwatson, james_w, Keybuk, barry
<mvo> worked on software-center and upgrade issues (update-manager), buried ratings&reviews for lucid, will work on upgrade bugs, beta-2 items
<mvo> (done)
<slangasek> worked on: beta
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
<cjwatson> (whoops)
<ev> oh I see how it is
<ev> ;)
<slangasek> working on: UbuntuSpec:foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries
<slangasek> (done)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: nope, I'm other there -->
<ev> fixed quite a few beta-2 bugs, working on getting the rest sorted and the last oem-config work item finished, landing branches now that all my freeze exceptions have been granted (thanks pitti!)
<ev> (done)
<tremolux> Continue Software Center bug fixes and triage, other tasks as needed.
<tremolux> (done)
<lool> Fixed small build issues in qemu-maemo and packaged it in my PPA (Beagle and N900 support!); worked on a cross-compilation presentation
<lool> (done)
<doko> sorry
<doko> * packages for final python releases
<doko> * llvm prerelease pacakges
<doko> * minor toolchain updates
<doko> * python bug triage
<doko> (done)
<cjwatson> done: helped with beta-1 plymouth/upstart confusion, let's have no more of this :-); grub lvm/raid fixups, localisation fixes, various upgrade fixes; fairly serious bug catchup; filed FFe request for ntfs-3g
<cjwatson> todo: figure out why my raid test system can't get past the initramfs; look at raising grub-installer MBR question priority again in d-i; more partitioning cleanup
<cjwatson> --
<Keybuk> Last week I was mostly fixing the Plymouth bugs that stopped us releasing Beta 1 on time.
<Keybuk> This week I've been mostly introducing new Plymouth bugs that will stop us releasing Beta 2 on time.
<Keybuk> --
<barry> completed computer janitor refactoring; branch landed; FFe submitted; bug triage.  worked a little bit on ratings and reviews; officially deferred until 10.10. pep 3147; more test fixing and mailing list discussions; pep updated. upgraded main dev box to lucid \o/.  update manager bug 132311; tracker discussion; bug triage.  little bit of work on launchpad mailing lists. lazr.enum packaging for universe; b
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 132311 in update-manager "update-manager should remove more old kernels" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132311
<slangasek> Keybuk: not funny :P
<james_w> Working on Launchpad to get some things we need for UDD to progress, as well as sponsoring, archive admin etc. Plan for more of the same, but hope to wrap up this first set of LP branches soon.
<james_w> --
<Keybuk> slangasek: I'm not the one who introduced a broken patch to Plymouth *at the very last minute*
<Keybuk> :D
<slangasek> Keybuk: it was only lightly broken :)
<Keybuk> suuure, what's a segfault between friends? :p
<slangasek> hrm?
<Keybuk> anyway, banter aside, let's let cjwatson get on with the meeting <g>
<cjwatson> like I say, I'm desperately hoping my script will finish in time :)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<cjwatson> cjwatson to spec out requirements for launchpadlib bug report script
<cjwatson> requirement is "add assignee column to the reports we're using"
<cjwatson> barry to implement script
<slangasek> Keybuk: that patch didn't cause any segfaults that I've seen, only a mountall assert?  (The fix for which is in bzr and I'd like to upload - is the branch in a state that I can do so?)
<cjwatson> since I only produced the requirement today, I decided to do it myself ;-)
<barry> cjwatson: is there anything more to hack on or are you happy enough with your script?
<Keybuk> slangasek: NO!!!!!!!!
<slangasek> Keybuk: ok, when will it be?
<Keybuk> slangasek: you know how ever time I say "oh, by this evening" it takes another day?
<cjwatson> barry: the main bit that's being a right pain is that I can't see any way to query by targeted (NOT nominated) series in the API
<cjwatson> barry: so I'm having to do a larger search and then trim it down by iterating over all bug tasks, which is painfully slow
<Keybuk> slangasek: I thought I'd upload it yesterday ... a day later and I'm still trying to fix the bug that stops plymouth working at all <g>
<cjwatson> and I think the results are still wrong
<slangasek> Keybuk: heh
<cjwatson> so, yeah, I could use some iterative help
<barry> cjwatson: hmm.  i don't know off hand, but i can ask on #launchpad-dev.  why don't you push a +junk branch so we can collaborate on it?
<cjwatson> barry: yup - will do that after the meeting
<barry> cool
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<cjwatson> from last week:
<cjwatson> 16:11 <mvo> python-apt was pending last I checked
<cjwatson> 16:11 <barry> cjwatson: not yet, but c-j is coming
<cjwatson> 16:11 <mvo> ratings&reviews is also still in limbo :(
<cjwatson> 16:11 <cjwatson> ntfs-3g still, I guess, need to find time to look at that
<mvo> python-apt got granted and is uploaded
<barry> R&R is deferred for sure
<barry> FFE for c-j is submitted but i've heard nothing about it since
 * mvo waves r&r goodbye for lucid
<cjwatson> pitti granted ntfs-3g and I'll upload that today
<ev> waiting for a comment on ubiquity timezone changes: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/538156
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 538156 in ubiquity "Freeze exception request: remove the seconds from the time zone map time" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> I would like to support the c-j dbus branch strongly because the current code is a mess of thread deadlocks that the dbus branch makes go away
<Keybuk> c-j dbus branch?
<Keybuk> oh, computer-janitor
<Keybuk> took brain a while to expand that
<barry> :)
<Keybuk> slangasek: I'd like a FFe for a D-Bus update itself
<cjwatson> I'm OK with the ubiquity timezone page change
<cjwatson> (as an installer hacker not a release team bod)
<ev> cjwatson: thanks, landing
<ev> oh, damn :)
<cjwatson> commented on the bug though
<slangasek> Keybuk: that sounds like an unlikely candidate for getting an exception, what's the need?
<Keybuk> slangasek: it stops the hang with multi-threaded D-Bus apps like evo
<barry> Keybuk: oh, i'd like to see that!
<barry> that maybe was ambiguous.  s/see/have/ :)
<slangasek> Keybuk: and we can't take the bugfix without new features? :)
<Keybuk> slangasek: I don't have the time to backport just the bug fix
<Keybuk> but if others do, sure
<Keybuk> there aren't any new features though
<slangasek> ok; file the FFe and I'll have a look
<Keybuk> just new other bug fixes
<slangasek> er - then it doesn't need an FFe
<Keybuk> D-Bus 1.2.x is fully in maintenance mode
<Keybuk> oh, I thought I needed an FFe to sneeze nowadays :p
<slangasek> only because when you sneeze, people's machines fall over
<slangasek> :)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
<Keybuk> not my fault people let me use computers ;)
<cjwatson> so as I said, I've been trying to produce a more useful view of this, but running into a few problems.  At the moment the list I have is of bugs milestoned to beta-2, but it doesn't take targeting into account properly, which is annoying
<cjwatson> but maybe http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html is useful anyway
<cjwatson> so that has upstart bug 531494 which I'm guessing is still a catfight between Keybuk and smoser?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531494 in upstart "cloud-init job sometimes not running in cloud images without ramdisk" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531494
<cjwatson> bug 522910 - mvo?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522910 in update-manager "hardy installation fails to take direct route to lucid" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522910
<cjwatson> (or barry?)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: it's not a catfight ;)
<cjwatson> bug 527870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527870 in update-manager "karmic -> lucid CDROM only upgrade fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527870
<cjwatson> bug 537007
<Keybuk> smoser has helpfully set up a machine hung in that state and given me ssh access to it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537007 in ubiquity "flash-kernel fails hard when network access fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537007
<barry> i can take some u-m bugs since i'm wading into that code now anyway
<cjwatson> bug 538129
<Keybuk> I'm unhelpfully been fixing my own release critical bugs first <g>
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538129 in software-center "UI freeze exception: Remove stars and reference to non-existent "reviews"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538129
<Keybuk> (before helping the server team with theirs)
<cjwatson> bug 539324 (that's mine, just forgot to assign)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539324 in debian-installer "Setting up swap fails when setting lvm+encryption" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539324
<barry> my c-j fix committed bugs will go to fix released when the ffe is accepted and the update lands
<cjwatson> bug 539710 - ev, you were in that code recently?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539710 in ubiquity "OEM Lucid installation - configuring system for a new user - error occurring installing new packages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539710
<cjwatson> bug 539827
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539827 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes after clicking "try ubuntu"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539827
<mvo> cjwatson: sorry, I have not looked at those two u-m bugs, but I will
<cjwatson> bug 534473
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 534473 in ubiquity "Wrong CD device used when installed from a Cruzer Micro." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534473
<ev> 539827 scares me
<cjwatson> bug 540686 - this is a weirdo upgrade bug, I'm not quite sure what's going on with it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540686 in initramfs-tools "update-initramfs fails in mkinitramfs with "cpio: ./different/files: Cannot stat: No such file or directory"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540686
<ev> I'm not sure what on earth could be causing it, but I'll keep at it
<doko> cjwatson: the status column doesn't seem to be up to date
<cjwatson> bug 386099
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386099 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Netbook OEM install does not create a 'prepare for shipping' icon" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386099
<ev> 539710> indeed, it's at the top of my list
<barry> i'll take 522910 to at least see if i can do something about it
<cjwatson> and I'll stop there for the moment since you can look at the unassigned list for yourselves
<cjwatson> doko: it's a statically generated page - my cleverness is limited
<cjwatson> doko: and the script takes tens of minutes to run, and is currently a bit broken
<Riddell> I was planning on doing the Kubuntu Netbook OEM icon bug, it's not hard
<mvo> cjwatson: if you could comment #540252 that would be nice, its sort-of releated to the initramfs failure
<cjwatson> Riddell: if you could tackle or get somebody to tackle bug 540202, that would be good too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540202 in ubiquity "kubuntu ubiquity shows ${RELEASE} briefly at start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540202
<Keybuk> huh
<cjwatson> slangasek: when barry and I polish this list up a bit more, will it be of use to you?
<Keybuk> there's an "LVM" bug assigned to me
<Riddell> cjwatson: yes, that's on my targets too
<Keybuk> bug #527666
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527666 in mountall "multiple LVM volumes not mounted in Lucid" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527666
<cjwatson> mvo: ok
<slangasek> 540686> a similar bug was already fixed in module-init-tools, but I wonder if that isn't ultimately an initramfs-tools bug for not sanitizing the input to cpio; a similar bug was just reported in Debian, and in that case the dangling symlink was user-provided :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes :)
<Keybuk> initramfs-tools is where bugs go to die
<ev> lol
<cjwatson> slangasek: I think for the lucid list we would also like to limit it to tasks that aren't milestoned for the current milestone - do you agree?
<slangasek> initramfs-tools is a roach motel?
<slangasek> cjwatson: makes sense
<Keybuk> the other trouble is that initramfs-tools tends to collect bugs that aren't really its fault
<Keybuk> like if all bugs were filed on dpkg because that was what installed things
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ... they are
<cjwatson> oh, sometimes they're filed on debconf because that's what asks you questions
<mvo> or update-manager because that is on the screen
<cjwatson> slangasek: we could at least work around it by sanitising the input, even if that might be too big a hammer
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
<cjwatson> without a list of what's in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs and not in the milestone list, this remains tricky, but there are a couple of bugs that caught my eye
<cjwatson> bug 445852 is nasty - does anyone know what's going on here well enough to attack it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445852 in libatasmart "devkit-disks-probe-ata-smart causes HSM Violations on SSD, and potential hardware death" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445852
<Keybuk> err, isn't that -desktop
<cjwatson> and bug 426027, Keybuk, are we planning a new version of util-linux?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 426027 in util-linux "/dev/disk/by-uuid doesn't exist in karmic kernels" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/426027
<Keybuk> pitti maintains udisks
<cjwatson> Keybuk: yeah, but it isn't a udisks bug as such
<Keybuk> cjwatson: there is no new version of util-linux?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: it's a libatasmart bug, which is only used by udisks and packaged by pitti?
<cjwatson> ah, I didn't realise its use was that limited
<cjwatson> Keybuk: the bug implies (and I've only skimmed it) that a newer upstream version fixes it
<cjwatson> possibly a git checkout or something
<Keybuk> since we're using the newest, shiniest, util-linux version
<Keybuk> that happens to also be GIT HEAD
<Keybuk> they lie
<cjwatson> ok
<Keybuk> oh, wait
<Keybuk> that bug is talking about KARMIC
<Keybuk> we obviously have newer in Lucid
<cjwatson> should the lucid task simply be closed?
<Keybuk> slangasek: you opened the lucid task
<cjwatson> Keybuk: on 2009-10-30
<Keybuk> did you have any reason for that?  I can't find any mention of lucid in the bug
<cjwatson> lucid was kind of new then, it was just carry-over from karmic
<Keybuk> ah
<Keybuk> quite right
<Keybuk> I shall mark Fix Released in karmic
<Keybuk> err in LUCID
<cjwatson> I'm also a bit scared that bug 417757 has come back like a bad smell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417757 in eglibc "[karmic regression] all network apps / browsers suffer from multi-second delays by default due to IPv6 DNS lookups" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417757
<cjwatson> we've fixed this twice already by my count
<cjwatson> doko: are you on top of that?
<doko> the "fix" is applied in the package
<doko> cjwatson: yes, will lok at it this week
<slangasek> is it?  the lucid task was reopened distinctly on that one
<cjwatson> it's one of those dogpile bugs, so I could well believe that the current issue has nothing to do with the original one, but
<slangasek> (by pitti, not by $drive_by_commenter)
<slangasek> doko: if you think it's fixed, I can re-run my test for lucid that I did for karmic
<cjwatson> one of the trailing comments claims to still have problems with lucid beta-1
<Keybuk> our users have many problems, not all of them with Ubuntu
<doko> slangasek: if you can do this faster than me, would be nice ...
<cjwatson> BTW, the reason we dropped Tollef's patch was that upstream's changes were supposed to supersede it
<cjwatson> at least that's my memory from the last go-around on this
<doko> yes, that's what I remember too
<cjwatson> looks like comparing very closely against FC12 wouldn't go amiss, if we haven't already :)
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<cjwatson> (skipping a bit)
<slangasek> Number of days without a world-breaking plymouth upload on the job site: 12
<slangasek> ;)
<Keybuk> 12?!
<lool> haha
<lool> slangasek: *hours* you mean
<Keybuk> I don't think we've even gone 7 surely
<Keybuk> I remember plymouth uploads in the small hours last week for beta
<slangasek> Keybuk: ah, but those were world-*fixing* :)
<mvo> upgrade feedback is overall pretty positive
<mvo> (modulo button order change)
<cjwatson> with a bit of outside help, Keybuk and I figured out that we have a decent chance of being able to use efifb as a boot framebuffer in lucid+1, fixing lots of issues along the way
<cjwatson> (it's a BAD IDEA in lucid given the kernel)
<slangasek> neat :)
<Keybuk> it's very sexy if you build a mainline with lucid's config though
<Keybuk> I tried it last night
<Keybuk> I made grub go purple with the ubuntu logo
<Keybuk> and the mode stayed set, and the screen did not get cleared
<Keybuk> and plymouth drew more on it and animated
<cjwatson> rocking
<Keybuk> it was very awesome
 * cjwatson wonders if we could persuade design that, with this, a one-second delay in grub isn't so bad after all
 * cjwatson fed up of not being able to get at the grub menu in kvm :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: in grub2, you can't pass vga= at all anymore?  so if you want to specify a video mode, you *have* to use gfx_payload=keep and trigger efifb?
<cjwatson> slangasek: you can if you use linux16/initrd16
<slangasek> ah
<cjwatson> but yeah, it's rocky right now
<cjwatson> efifb would be a lot easier in many ways, even though it's Different
 * slangasek files that rune away for future interactions
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> I saw a bug comment this week from someone who said "I got my video mode working just fine, just remove vesafb from the blacklist in /etc and edit these three other config files..."
<doko> are the rebuild tests running? besides the ones lucas did make
<Keybuk> vga= gets picked up by the initramfs too
<cjwatson> slangasek: yeeeees.  uh, it depends
<Keybuk> the efifb problem, for the record, is that the switch into a real kms framebuffer is a bit rocky
<Keybuk> slangasek: I tend to recommend people do that
<cjwatson> doko: oh, bugger, I keep forgetting.  why don't we get you into ubuntu-archive as agreed and you can do it :)
<Keybuk> with the big BUT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO RESUME FROM SUSPEND above it
<mvo> cjwatson: what is a good place for maitenance check lucid.hints file ? ~ubuntu-archive too?
<slangasek> Keybuk: my understanding from cjwatson was that the kernel never *sees* the vga= because grub2 filters it magically when using the 32-bit boot protocol
<cjwatson> mvo: is it worth putting it in the seeds?
<cjwatson> vga= is a bit weird
<Keybuk> slangasek: oh, dunno about that ;)
<cjwatson> it was always interpreted by the boot loader, and shoved into the boot parameters structure that the kernel gets from the boot loader
<cjwatson> it was never passed as an ordinary command line option, really
<mvo> cjwatson: not sure, kees asked for a special override file (this is how I implemented it currently). its outside the seeds currently
<cjwatson> the bit of the kernel that interprets it is in the 16-to-32-bit bring-up code
<cjwatson> mvo: I think the seeds would be best if that's doable, but failing that I think maybe something that ubuntu-core-dev can write to
<doko> cjwatson: I'm fine with it, would you mind give some help for the first run?
<cjwatson> doko: certainly
<mvo> cjwatson: thanks, that is fine with me, I will update my code for this and talk to kees if/how to put it into the seeds
<cjwatson> I needed help from bigjools, it's not the sort of thing you can figure out from scratch even if you're already used to running the archive :(
<cjwatson> doko: first thing tomorrow?
<cjwatson> doko: oh, wait, I don't start until 11:30 London time on Thursdays, so after that
<cjwatson> ok, please send me your activity reports if you haven't already, and I'll put them in the wiki
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:58.
<doko> cjwatson: sounds fine
<tremolux> see ya's, good day all
<mvo> thanks
<ev> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<james_w> thanks
 * fader_ waves.
 * ara waves
<fader_> marjo has a scheduling conflict so he's asked me to kick off the QA meeting today
 * sbeattie waves
<fader_> So without further ado...
<fader_> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is fader_.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<fader_> Agenda:
<fader_>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<fader_>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<fader_>     * Upgrade Jams -- ara
<fader_> [TOPIC] SRU testing (sbeattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing (sbeattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-17):
<sbeattie> * karmic: 8 new packages in -proposed (devicekit-disks, gst-plugins-bad0.10, language-packs, linux-firmware-nonfree, lupin, mountall, packagekit, papyon) and 4 packages pushed to -updates (app-install-data-partner, landscape-client, linux, samba)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 packages pushed to -updates (landscape-client, linux)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 package pushed to -updates (landscape-client, linux)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 package pushed to -updates (kdepim, linux)
<sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
<sbeattie> Thanks to Douglas Mackay, timroll, David Tombs, SÃ¶ren Wegener, Alessio Treglia, Derek Simkowiak, Onkar Shinde, AG, Ricardo Sanchez, Andreas Wenning, and Besterino for testing SRUs this week.
<fader_> No SRUs for dapper... all the bugs must have been worked out by now :)
<sbeattie> There's a bit of a buildup of SRUs for karmic, so if people are looking for things to do, that'd be a great place to start.
<pedro_> anything that might need more attention (help) there ?
<pedro_> the queue is quite big compared to previous week
<sbeattie> well, a new linux kernel just popped in this morning, I think.
<sbeattie> that made the queue appear a bit larger.
<pedro_> ah ok, thanks sbeattie
<sbeattie> pedro_: clearing out some of the ones that have been languishing for a while would be great.
<sbeattie> Any other SRU questions?
<fader_> Doesn't seem like it... thanks, sbeattie!
<fader_> [TOPIC] Bug Day status (pedro_)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status (pedro_)
<pedro_> On Thursday 18th we had a bug day based on Gwibber, yes the microblogging app
<pedro_> you can have a look at the progress of that day on the graph at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100318
<ara> the micro blogging application, with macro start up times
<pedro_> ~84 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes:  vish, kamusin, c-korn, Boniek, fle and bananeweizen
<fader_> ara: Heh :)
<pedro_> heh
<pedro_> thanks also to kenvandine for looking into the bugs we triaged and raised that day
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day for all the translators in our lovely Ubuntu project, the target is the ubuntu-translators project
<pedro_> there's plenty of bugs to be triaged: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100325
<pedro_> so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage and translations join us, we'll be glad to help you out to start
<fader_> Any bug day questions or comments?
<fader_> Doesn't seem like it.  Thanks, pedro_
<pedro_> my pleasure ;-)
<fader_> :)
<fader_> [TOPIC] Upgrade Jams (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Upgrade Jams (ara)
<ara> As you may already know, this weekend is the Ubuntu Global Jam
<ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<ara> as part of the UGJ we are asking people to upgrade to Lucid and report back
<ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
<ara> anyone is going to an UGJ this weekend?
<fader_> Unfortunately I have plans this weekend, but maybe I can find one to drop in on.  I heard the last jam was really incredible!
<bladernr_> +1 fader_ ... I have had my weekend planned out for me :(
<ara> well, I will be sending a reminder to the ubuntu-qa list to see if any of our members can help out people upgrading during the jam
<pedro_> I'm going to one here in Chile, the local community is organizing one so i'll be there
<fader_> pedro_: Awesome!  Take lots of pictures ! :)
<ara> pedro_, nice! tell people to upgrade to lucid! :D
<pedro_> fader_, ara sure! will do both tasks ;-)
<fader_> Thanks, ara!
<fader_> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<fader_> Going once...
<fader_> Going twice...
<fader_> Looks like that's it.  Thanks, everyone!
<fader_> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:18.
<bdmurray> thanks
<kamusin> :)
<sbeattie> thanks.
<pedro_> thanks!
<highvoltage>  * Edubuntu meeting in 4 minutes
<highvoltage> Good evening!
<Lns> hellooooo
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> let's give everyone a minute or so to check in
<highvoltage> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> anything else that should be added?
<stgraber> doc day ?
<Lns> window control button placement in 10.04? ;)
<highvoltage> right!
<highvoltage> ok updated (that is, when the page finishes saving)
<stgraber> Lns: heh :) we have alternative themes to deal with that ;) personaly I'm getting used to having them on the left side
<Lns> stgraber: =) true true, i keep forgetting its just in a theme
<highvoltage> let's start with that, I had lots of mixed feelings abou tit
<highvoltage> *about it
<highvoltage> so earlier this week I updated the artwork packages so that we use the light theme
<highvoltage> stgraber and I talked about it on jabber where he suggested it
<highvoltage> I wasn't sure whether we should do it since *many* schools have mixed environments, and having different button positions may be a bit weird for some users
<alkisg> Hi all
<Lns> Personally I just think it's unnecessary, period
<highvoltage> I've tried the light (radiance) theme though and it works *really* well for Ubuntu, it matches our colours very well
<highvoltage> especially the red highlight around text field entries
<highvoltage> we also keep a little closer to ubuntu, but I think it's a mild benefit.
<highvoltage> I'm jumping around a bit here, so apologies for being a bit ADHD, but tonight I got the Edubuntu Options dialog working, it pops up near the end of the installation process and asks whether you'd like to install LTSP and/or the Netbook Remix packages
<stgraber> yep, here I'm running Ambiance (dark one), it's let me reduce my backlight quite a bit and proved very usable. I'd still keep the old one around though and make sure Window borders are restored correctly when switching back to the old one
<highvoltage> we *could* add an option for "Legacy Window Positions" there
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm setting up a test environment here in our libvirt cluster, I'll try to give you acces to that later on, might be useful for debugging ;)
<highvoltage> although when you do move the buttons to their old positions it also breaks the theme, so I'm not sure whether that would be a good idea.
<Lns> For default install, it's going to confuse a LOT of people, especially the ones we're targeting - non-techie educational types
<highvoltage> stgraber: thanks, it should also be a lot faster than my virtualbox setup :)
<highvoltage> what we could perhaps do, is have the option for "Legacy Theming". that could use the Human metacity theme and restore the old window buttons
<Lns> highvoltage: that's available through appearance menu anyway right?
<highvoltage> Lns: unfortunately not. you can set the Metacity theme, but not the window action positions
 * mhall119 is late
<Lns> woah, i thought the position was tied to the theme..
<highvoltage> Lns: nope, the buttons will be on the left regardless of the theme
<Lns> k
<Lns> well anyway my vote is 'no' but that's just me :)
<stgraber> that's actually a one-line gconf command to switch it
<highvoltage> ok, so we should leave it out of the edubuntu-conf script?
<stgraber> yeah but I'd make the gconf options of our old themes hardcode the old order
<stgraber> so if someone switch to one of the old ones, the order will be reverted
<stgraber> (that's similar to the change I made to enable the icons in the menu)
<highvoltage> stgraber: you can do that in a theme?
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure, each theme comes with its set of gconf keys
<mhall119> didn't know that
<stgraber> ah no, my mistake ;)
<stgraber> it seemed that way in the packaging
<stgraber> actually what we seem to have in edubuntu-artwork is a debconf question that asks for default/plain/young
<highvoltage> pity, that would've been nice
<stgraber> and depending on that applies different gconf keys
<stgraber> highvoltage: debian/gconf/*
<highvoltage> yes, I don't think that works with the ubiquity installer anymore
<stgraber> indeed
<highvoltage> so... perhaps there should be a dialog that asks which default theme should be used, and then have default/plain/young/legacy
<Lns> I like that option since it ties into what we had discussed before about themes for different ages/schools
<highvoltage> perhaps for lucid+1 we could make it default/plain/qimo/legacy
<stgraber> it's just too bad we are that late in the cycle, otherwise we could have done a nice gtk window showing the new and old themes and asking which one should be the default
<stgraber> new one would have the controls on the left, old ones on the right
<highvoltage> stgraber: I was thinking the same thing!
<Lns> that would be so cool
<stgraber> we can probably make the tool for that and have it in the edubuntu-dev PPA but that won't be in for Lucid
<stgraber> though it most definitely needs to be properly advertised and be in for Lucid+1
<highvoltage> *nod*
<Lns> +1 for lucid+1
<Lns> hehe
<highvoltage> well all the themes will be installed, we should just have a section on the website telling administrators how to change the theme if they'd like to do so post-installation
<nixternal> hola
<highvoltage> (rather than re-installing from scratch just to get the theme)
<highvoltage> howdy nixternal
<nixternal> I was writing some docs in the background trying to make freeze for &kubuntu;
<highvoltage> nixternal: make freeze?
<highvoltage> oh I see
<nixternal> string freeze :/
<highvoltage> ok all above is noted
<highvoltage> I leared all about plymouth this week, we have our basic theming done, can fine-tune it a bit when the Logos come
<highvoltage> an issue we'll have to live with is that some computers where KMS isn't supported will show an Ubuntu splash screen
 * stgraber tests LTSP live ;)
<highvoltage> that we can only have fixed for Lucid+1 as well
<highvoltage> I guess that's it for artwork? Anything else?
<highvoltage> (I always feel like I'm typing *way* too much in these meetings :) )
<highvoltage> ok on to technical then
<highvoltage> as stgraber pointed out, we do have LTSP live now!
<highvoltage> it doesn't work in today's build but it will after the next ltsp package release.
<highvoltage> it only requires two steps currently. 1. set up a NIC, 2. run ltsp-livecd
<nixternal> highvoltage: I need to learn plymouth as well, was it easy?
<highvoltage> ltsp-livecd takes about a minute to run from the livecd on my virtualmachine, so it doesn't take long at all to get a demo ltsp server going with a livecd
<Lns> That is pretty neat!
<highvoltage> nixternal: it's simpler than usplash, you don't have to compile anything, there are some tricks with getting the colours right. it doesn't use alternatives yet so you use plymouth itself to handle the symlinks
<highvoltage> nixternal: give me a ping when you want to work on it and I'll tell you everything I know about it
<alkisg> Did anyone try ltsp-livecd in a real hardware? Is the speed bearable?
<stgraber> alkisg: currently I have it on our development network, so that's a quad-opteron + 8GB of RAM but it's mapped to a physical VLAN so I'll be able to test on real hardware
<highvoltage> alkisg: I booted 2 thin clients from the vm and it was quite bearable, the catch is of course that I booted from an ISO and not from a disc
<alkisg> That's not too uncommon, though
<Lns> I can try it out once i get the image downloaded
<Lns> anyone have the quick link for meh? :)
<stgraber> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/lucid-dvd-i386.iso
<stgraber> if I remember well
<highvoltage> Lns: yes download that so long, and then when the new build is done with the newer ltsp packages then you can just rsync to the latest version
<Lns> cool
<Lns> ty!
<highvoltage> ok so about edubuntu-conf. that's a little script that pops up a dialog in ubiquity that asks whether you want to install the netbook remix and LTSP
<highvoltage> it didn't work for me before (the experimental pop-ups), but for some reason it works fine now
<highvoltage> I think I might have had too little ram assigned to my VM before
<highvoltage> we should have that working fine by the end of the week as well, so next week we'll need all the testing we can get
<stgraber> please note that next week we'll be in beta2 freeze with beta due the 8th IIRC
<highvoltage> stgraber: we can still make bug fixes right?
<nixternal> highvoltage: groovy, thanks
<stgraber> highvoltage: sure but package will have to be accepted one by one by the release team
<stgraber> not much of a problem though
<highvoltage> ok we'll just have to sort out any problems as far as possible this week still
<stgraber> yep
<highvoltage> (which I agree shouldn't be too much of a problem)
<stgraber> though I'm very confident we'll meet our roadmap
<highvoltage> although that logo we're waiting on is becomming a bit of a problem in terms of artwork
<stgraber> which is probably a first in Edubuntu's history ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: :)
<stgraber> also, I uploaded LTSP 5.2.1 and LDM 2.1.1
<stgraber> which after 2 additional uploads now work correctly
<highvoltage> pity sbalneav couldn't make the meeting, I'm sure he wouldn't wanted to discuss doc day
<stgraber> thanks to alkisg for the testing ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh
<highvoltage> alkisg to the rescue as always
<stgraber> it was also the occasion to switch off compression for our squashfs
<alkisg> :)
<stgraber> that should hopefully make all these kernel panics and squashfs errors at boot time vanish
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's mostly for fixing plymouth issues right?
<stgraber> yeah, that also contains the fixes for plymouth
<stgraber> and for VT switching
<highvoltage> do you happen to remember how much bigger it makes the image?
<stgraber> my test thin client here boots in between 10s and 15s without a flicker
<stgraber> hang on a sec, I have both images here
<Lns> wait what, turn off compression for squashfs image?
<stgraber> 217M compressed, 522M for uncompressed
<stgraber> chroot is over 600M on the disk
<stgraber> Lns: equivalent of ltsp-update-image -n
<highvoltage> shew.
<Lns> that doesn't affect network transfer right?
<highvoltage> Lns: yep it does
<Lns> so..its slower?
<stgraber> Lns: it does take a little more bandwidth at boot time, though you're free to comment that option in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
<highvoltage> Lns: although it should mostly for booting
<Lns> oh ok
<Lns> cool
<stgraber> Lns: it takes less CPU but a bit more data have to be sent
<Lns> nice
<Lns> and building would be much faster i'm sure
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> a few secs vs a few mins
<stgraber> in some cases
<stgraber> (like fat clients)
<alkisg> stgraber: I wonder if the compression problems were due to multiple processors being used for the compression... and if we forced squashfs to use only one, they'd go away...
<stgraber> that'll unfortunately make our DVD image 200MB bigger though
<stgraber> alkisg: I tried all combinations of all mksquashfs flags without much success unfortunately :(
<alkisg> Ugh
<Lns> very nice :)
<stgraber> alkisg: I have thin clients that'll always boot fine with a compressed squashfs and some others that'll always crash or panic
<stgraber> alkisg: seems to depend on the network card, network trafic, CPU usage or something
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm interested what it would do with low compression
<Lns> that's interesting issue
<highvoltage> (or small block size, at least)
<stgraber> I'd personaly bet on some kind of network issue as it doesn't seem to affect the LiveCDs and these are using compressed squashfs
<highvoltage> imho having a little bit of compression would be nice if possible
<alkisg> maybe nbd client is losing some packets while trying to decompress...
<stgraber> highvoltage: with squashfs you can't exactly choose the level of compression, you can just choose what you want compressed
<stgraber> highvoltage: and that's what I tested with all the combinations I could think of with some working slightly better than others
<stgraber> but none where my test thin client could boot 10 times in a row without kernel panic
<stgraber> only uncompressed gave me a whole night of reboot without crashes
<stgraber> but we should make sure that the procedure to turn compression back on is easily available on the wiki
<stgraber> it's a single line to comment in the configuration file
<stgraber> and if their thin clients work fine with compressed squashfs, then they should definitely use it (as it reduces the network trafic quite a bit)
<highvoltage> ok, let's move on
<highvoltage> any other technical issues?
<highvoltage> I spoke to Hedgemadge earlier today about the website, biggest blockers there is basically the logo, which isn't really all that big anyway
<highvoltage> we should have the website she and dhillion-v10 worked on up well before release at least
<stgraber> has the theme been updated to reflect the new colors ?
<highvoltage> not yet, the theme I last saw was quite basic
<highvoltage> I was thinking today of drawing up a bit of an Edubuntu branding guide, similar to the Ubuntu one on the wiki
<highvoltage> I think we could also include the different desktop themes there and gather some wider input
<highvoltage> it would most probably be too late to make actual changes by the time we've gathered input, but it would make decisions easier for M
<stgraber> +1
<highvoltage> yay, someone else is alive :)
<alkisg> :)
<highvoltage> ok when I have that done I'll send the link out to the mailing list so that everyone knows about it
<highvoltage> should we discuss doc day on #edubuntu when sbalneav is around?
<stgraber> yep
<highvoltage> I think he might want to host it, unless anyone else feels compelled to :)
<stgraber> we should schedule it after we have the artwork done
<stgraber> or we'll have issues with screenshots and similar stuff due to the final logo not being there yet and remaining artwork changes
<highvoltage> we could probably do a website day too the week after next week
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> I can't think of anything else
<stgraber> nothing to add here
<highvoltage> ok, that's that then. thanks for joining everyone, seems like we snugly fit it into an hour :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-26
<pitti> o/
 * slangasek waves
 * marjo waves
<ScottK> o/
 * ogasawara waves
<ttx> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-26
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-03-26
<ScottK> pitti: I'll be giving the Kubuntu report today since Riddell is away.
<jdstrand> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * review status of branding for Kubuntu, Edubuntu next week
<slangasek>   * asac to talk to mozilla upstream about the need for system cairo in Ubuntu
<asac> o/
<slangasek>   * ScottK, slangasek to review python sync/merge candidates
<slangasek>   * pitti to get people to investigate #528524
<slangasek>   * pitti to file bug about sound indicator being muted
<pitti> sorry, I'll be "really" here in a minute; firefox ate all my tabs
<pitti> slangasek: sound indicator bug filed, conor is debugging it
<slangasek> ScottK: any progress on branding?
<slangasek> stgraber: ^^
<slangasek> pitti: ok, great!
<ScottK> slangasek: Nope.  Silence.
<slangasek> asac: have you reached out to Mozilla upstream?
<pitti> and #528524 made some progress
<slangasek> ScottK: mm
<asac> slangasek: awaiting reponse from them today on the cairo bug. they want to pursue this upstream and have assigned a dev to it (so it gets finally resolved).. if we dont get anything by monday we will go with what we have and replace it when they have a real solution
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to shake the branding tree and see what falls out
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to shake the branding tree and see what falls out
<pitti> slangasek: wrt. mozilla, we decided to go ahead and apply the patch in the firefox source; Chris Coulson did that, but now it's looking worse than before, so investigations ongoing
<ScottK> slangasek: We need to think about if this is something we'd really want to touch after beta 2, but having an Ubuntu splash on Kubuntu is going to make a lot of users not happy.
<slangasek> asac: that's a reasonable timeline, thanks.  Is Mozilla aware of this Monday deadline?
<slangasek> pitti: er, heh
<asac> slangasek: yes, they are aware of the urgency
<asac> pitti: interesting. was that local build?
<pitti> yes
<asac> ok fine
<slangasek> pitti: 528524 - ok, good; is there a further action item there?  Is Luke the correct assignee to carry it forward?
<pitti> *nng*, firefox, start
<pitti> slangasek: it should probably be reassigned to crimsun, he's currently working on it
<slangasek> done
<slangasek> ScottK: yes, I really wouldn't like us to be changing this post-beta2, so I'll see what I can do to get things moving
<slangasek> ScottK: python sync/merge - I have time for that today if you do
<ScottK> Possibly.
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> marjo: hello
<marjo> * Hardware testing
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbook:
<marjo>    passed:  11 (79%) failed:   1 ( 7%) untested: 2 (14%)
<marjo> Laptop:
<marjo>    passed:  32 (100%)   failed:   0 (  0%)   untested: 0 (  0%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Server:
<marjo>    passed:  63 (91%)   failed:   0 ( 0%)  untested: 6 ( 9%)
<marjo> Desktop:
<marjo>    passed:  13 (100%)   failed:   0 (  0%)   untested: 0 (  0%)
<marjo> per asac's request:
<marjo> * Beta 1 Outstanding Serious Bugs Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html
<asac> hah
<marjo> asac: better?
<cjwatson> marjo: can we get an assignee column in that list?
<asac> looks nice.
<cjwatson> if we can, a variant would supersede some hacking work I've been doing
<marjo> cjwatson: will do, thx for feedback
<slangasek> marjo: looks nice - though it looks like bugs that were referenced more than once are repeated, would be nice to fix that :)
<marjo> cjwatson: ok, working w/ bdmurray on improvements for usability
<cjwatson> still some weird dups in that list
<marjo> slangasek: ditto re bdmurray's help
<cjwatson> can we get bugs actively *off* that list without fixing them?  bug 527377 has been true forever
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527377 in ubiquity "on resize mode i can't choose in which disk install to" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527377
<slangasek> marjo: anything we need to discuss re: the 8 machines not yet tested for hw testing?
<marjo> cjwatson: sure, we can consider that
<fader_> slangasek: We're actively looking at all of them.  The two netbooks we can test with a USB installer so they're certain to get tested soon
<marjo> slangasek: not really, they're basically on deck
<cjwatson> mind you, I can just dup that bug
<marjo> cjwatson: go for it!
<fader_> The dead HP server is dependent on HP getting it fixed and back to us; the one that needs a serial dongle should be up by EOD today
<slangasek> marjo, fader_: ok.  also, in past cycles there's been hw that was not yet provisioned that as a result wasn't even listed as "untested" - is there anything like that pending this cycle?
<fader_> slangasek: Yes, anything we don't physically have is not reflected in this report.  As I receive hardware I add it to the list
<marjo> slangasek: i think that's the proper way, doesn't make sense to list "not yet provisioned"
<fader_> +1, especially as we're never 100% certain when or even if we will get all the hardware that is targeted :/
<slangasek> marjo: if it's hardware that we have an obligation to get provisioned and certified before it's too late to change 10.04 to fix anything, I think we do need to have it on the radar
<slangasek> (but I have no visibility into what hw we might have such obligations on...)
<marjo> slangasek: agree, will consider
<marjo> slangasek: yes, that needs to be considered in the reporting
<marjo> next topic ok?
<slangasek> marjo: can I give you an action item to check on this?
<marjo> slangasek: please do
<slangasek> [ACTION] marjo to confirm whether there are committments to certify any hardware for 10.04 that's not yet provisioned
<MootBot> ACTION received:  marjo to confirm whether there are committments to certify any hardware for 10.04 that's not yet provisioned
<slangasek> next topic
<marjo> Lucid Quality (wrt Bugs) Status Report
<marjo> 34 days left and 322 bug tasks to fix
<marjo> Barring no new work - we need to fix 9 bug tasks a day now
<marjo> The Canonical Desktop Team needs to deal with 21 bug tasks
<marjo> Chris Coulson is the most overtasked with 10 bug tasks
<marjo> Martin Pitt is rockin' with 66 bug tasks fixed
<marjo> Yesterday's hero was Martin Pitt with 2 bug tasks fixed
<marjo> not exactly 34 days, due to final freeze milestone
<ttx> and the day before yesterday, the hero was Martin Pitt.
<pitti> I talked with Chris about his'
<bdmurray> the day before yesterday was actually Dustin! ;-)
<pitti> he said he has fixes for many of them already, and the firefox ones will be fixed in one go
<ttx> hah!
<slangasek> :-)
<pitti> Dustin and I have a permanent race on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html, yes :)
<ttx> we are trying to help him, he releases most of the team fixes.
<pitti> (oh, on par again .. /me pedals harder)
<marjo> Specs Status
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-bugs-hwdb-querying
<marjo> Status: On track
<marjo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-bugs-hwdb-querying
<marjo> Status: On track
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<marjo> slangasek: Bug:530380: checkbox writes to .cache/checkbox/submission before submission completes
<marjo> Status: cr3 has submitted the merge request. Waiting for review by release team.
<marjo> that's it folks
<marjo> thanks for all the feedback
<marjo> hope you find the reports useful to focus your work on quality!
<marjo> slangasek: that's it from QA team
<slangasek> ok, thanks!
<slangasek> any questions from anyone?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> ttx: hi
<ttx> o/
<ttx> So we are in good shape with beta2-targeted bugs, mostly thanks to a eucalyptus sprint where smoser, mathiaz and kirkland have been fixing the euca beta2-targeted issues
<ttx> The others should all get fixed by beta2Freeze
<ttx> I'll mention bug 522509 being blocked by a FFe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522509 in tftp-hpa "[FFE] tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522509
<ttx> ... which might not be necessary (conversion to upstart is a feature ?)
<ttx> Ah, I forgot to paste the link
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> makes it easier to follow ;)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<ttx> Questions about our beta2-targeted bugs ?
<slangasek> well, upstart jobs are all still supposed to be passed to Foundations for review prior to upload, so an FFe works as well as anything for that
<ttx> slangasek: ok :)
<slangasek> I can review this today
<ttx> cool, thanks
<ttx> On the specs side, looking at High specs < 75 % completion:
<ttx> server-lucid-uec-testing (33% completion): Incompatibilities between testrig and installer capabilities threaten multi-network automated testing, in which case we'll switch to manual testing. The rest is on track.
<ttx> server-lucid-papercuts (33% completion): On track, one work item per week. 11 targets, 36% fixed
<ttx> will work next week on improving that score
<ttx> server-lucid-eucalyptus-merging-and-packaging (71% completion) is onn track
<ttx> server-lucid-ec2-ebsroot (0%): just a cleanup script is missing, should be completed by Tuesday
<ttx> Bugs affecting server, in other teams:
<ttx> bug 531494: upstart does not run cloud-init job (Foundations)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 531494 in upstart "cloud-init job sometimes not running in cloud images without ramdisk" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531494
<slangasek> ttx: is mathiaz actively working on the openldap bugs?  I can easily see those overrunning the beta freeze if he doesn't get an early start on them
<ttx> I couldn't get an updated status from him on those
<ttx> I'll watch ethm and possibly help
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> I've been discussing this bug with cjwatson
<padhu> ttx: great job of ubuntu team
<ttx> since foundations need to prioritize where they spend their upstart/plymouth efforts
<ttx> we have a way to trigger the bug much less often, which is the workaround we did for beta1
<ttx> (re-enable ramdisks)
<ttx> so we'll reenable them for lucid. Doesn't mean the bug shouldn't get fixed
<ttx> since it's a race that can certainly still be lost
<ttx> some questions remains around the EC2 images
<slangasek> "less often" - that hardly sounds like something we want to leave you with for release
<ttx> since they ship without ramdisk for quite some time in Lucid now
<ttx> slangasek: taht was an overstatement
<ttx> we never lost the race so far with ramdisk enabled
<ttx> but we still fear the race could be lost.
<Keybuk> shouldn't get fixed => the problem is that the cause of the bug has not been isolated
<cjwatson> I don't think a fix is going to be practical at this point
<slangasek> ttx: ah, ok
<Keybuk> and it's impractical to expect foundations to isolate the causes of bugs that are only replicable on cloud systems
<Keybuk> (since only server are familiar with them)
<ttx> let's say that needs some combined expertise. But I agree your efforts are better spent elsewhere right now
<Keybuk> the problem is the length of the "right now"
 * slangasek nods
<ttx> so we still need to decide what's best for EC2 image, before Beta2freeze ideally
<ttx> bug 527208: EC2 kernel fails to boot in c1.xlarge (Kernel)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527208 in linux-ec2 "ec2 instance fails boot, no console output on c1.xlarge" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527208
<Keybuk> I believe that, legally speaking, the age at which I will not have a million things clamoring for my attention is 65 in this country ;-)
<ttx> could we clone you ?
<Keybuk> ttx: I have indicated that I would be amenable to this approach, yes ;-)
<ttx> I didn't get an update from jjohansen on this one
<ttx> it was in good shape last time he reported about it, so I wonder why it's still open
<slangasek> ogasawara: ^^ do you know where that bug sits?
<slangasek> "in good shape" how?
<ttx> The others are well-known issues about installer
<ttx> "slangasek: fix tested and working"
<slangasek> ok
<ttx> bug 527401, bug 539324 and bug 546929
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527401 in partman-base "grub-installer fails to install on a raid1 array" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 539324 in debian-installer "Setting up swap fails when setting lvm+encryption" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539324
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546929 in linux "most PATA/SATA modules missing in Lucid netboot" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546929
 * JFo looks those over
<cjwatson> the first one's done, you're out of date :)
<ttx> beh
<ttx> Other/future issues expected to impact the Lucid release:
<cjwatson> smb promised that the third would be uploaded today
<smb> cjwatson, Yep working on that
<ogasawara> ttx, slangasek:  I'll get with jj when he gets back from vaca about it's current status
<ttx> Rising controversy from an otherwise-calm community about missing server boot messages
<ScottK> The opinions are pretty one sided on that.
<ttx> I discussed it with cjwatson and I think we ahve an agreement that the default server boot should be more verbose
<ttx> and not hide any init.d output
<ogasawara> ttx: 546929 should have a fix uploaded today
<slangasek> ttx: hum, plymouth doesn't give us many options there; we have one dip switch for "verbose", and that's to turn off splash
<slangasek> anything else requires plymouth development work
<Keybuk> huh
<ttx> cjwatson mentioned other possibilities
<Keybuk> it gives you lots of options
<cjwatson> there's a "details" plugin, I'm given to understand
<slangasek> Keybuk: that don't require feature work?
<Keybuk> slangasek: indeed
<Keybuk> the problem isn't Plymouth
<ttx> we have bug 542666, but it's about one side of the issues (suppressed init.d output)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 542666 in upstart "No verbose output on ubuntu-server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542666
<ttx> not really default behavior
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, that gives *lots* of details (and is what happens when you disable 'splash')
<Keybuk> Plymouth has lots of features to capture console output and log them, and allow plugins to display them
<Keybuk> you can even write graphical plugins with scrolling boot messages
<slangasek> Keybuk: I'm including "plymouth theme work" in "plymouth development work"
<Keybuk> the problem is that in Ubuntu, right now, we don't connect the init.d scripts to the console :p
<cjwatson> I don't think the server folk want anything graphical
<ttx> cjwatson: I guess I need to file a better bug about "verbose text boot by default" ?
<Keybuk> slangasek: details behaves like this bu default
<Keybuk> cjwatson: Mark does AIUI
<Keybuk> that being said
<cjwatson> Keybuk: so I've vaguely heard, but ttx didn't seem to know about this
<Keybuk> those following bzr may have noticed that I've subtly arranged the packages so that server simply need to not seed a plymouth-theme-* package ;-)
<cjwatson> and if the server tech lead doesn't, I'm assuming that it has not been very clearly stated
<ttx> and jib is with me, FWIW
<Keybuk> and then they'll have details.so only
<Daviey> One issue i've heard about is using Plymouth with a serial console, i haven't yet tried this.
<Keybuk> ttx: if you and jib tell me not to seed a graphical theme ... I will not do so
<ttx> Keybuk: works for me :)
<Keybuk> (you have to tell me not to :p)
<ttx> that's about it from me
<slangasek> alrighty
<slangasek> any other questions for server?
<Keybuk> slangasek: just one note
<Keybuk> if the initramfs-tools update I just did works
<ttx> cjwatson: should I file a bug about default text verbose boot for server ? If which, against which package ? plymouth ?
<Keybuk> then I'm happy to re-enable "console output" for init.d scripts
<Keybuk> since Plymouth will capture it all anyway
<slangasek> should it also be re-enabled for other upstart jobs?
<Keybuk> slangasek: the easiest thing will be just to change the default inside Upstart
<cjwatson> ttx: file it on ubuntu-meta, subscribe me, and we'll take it from there
<ttx> ok
<slangasek> Keybuk: easiest; but safe?
<cjwatson> since we know we'll at least need a seed change
<Keybuk> slangasek: I can't think of any danger
<slangasek> Keybuk: I can't either, but I think I'd like that change to happen before b2 freeze if it's going to so we have time to notice issues and back it out
<Keybuk> slangasek: *nods*
<Keybuk> I plan to have this plymouth package uploaded by three days ago
<slangasek> excellent, I'll test it yesterday
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> asac: hi :)
<asac> hi
<asac> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<asac> so openoffice fix uploaded. somehow the build is still in queue
<asac> so pending verification
<asac> omap enablement is chunk of work now for rest of cycle
<asac> it didnt went as well as hoped
<asac> but thats expected
<asac> kernel is broken, but seems on track to be fixed by amitk
<slangasek> hum, the bug had said there was a successful build of OOo already, oops
<asac> all i know is that we havent verified the latest upload on our own :)
<asac> so omap being a bit behind made a late MIR for x-loader and uboot go away
<asac> we will rely on the flash being properly setup for omap this cycle
<slangasek> asac: oh, there's a 3.2.0-4ubuntu2 upload as of 9h ago, with unrelated changes - is -4ubuntu1 tested at all?
<ogra> i think -4ubuntu1 was what doko was referring to in his comment
<asac> slangasek: right. its not tested by our QA and i dont believe it until they confirm
<slangasek> (is it still installable, or does the reupload break that?  if it's not installable, can I suggest grabbing the dependencies from the librarian by hand?)
<asac> ;)
<ogra> unless we want more testers that should be closed
<asac> but its probably fixed
<asac> slangasek: we will get that verified today
<slangasek> right - if there's enough doubt about the fix to be keeping the bug open, then you shouldn't be waiting until Monday for -4ubuntu2 to be built on arm
<asac> *nod*
<ogra> for the omap image building we could need some help from a cdimage person, StevenK integrated my build scripts, we have livefses but somehow no actual image comes out on the rear end
<pitti> I think it was closed, but doko reopened it again because debian/copyright was wrong or so
<ogra> i cant find any problem looking at the code
<pitti> (doko tested it and said OO.o was working fine on arm now..)
<doko> ogra: I checked that the notice is removed in 4ubuntu2
<ogra> doko, great, so it can be fully closed now
<slangasek> ogra, asac: I need to talk to someone about this omap stuff and what our expectations for release are, because this was never mentioned when https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ReleaseManifest was being put together and I expect anything we do there for 10.04 to land *very* rough
<asac> slangasek: yes, sory for that
<asac> slangasek: we can go over that on monday
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek, asac to discuss omap plans for 10.04
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek, asac to discuss omap plans for 10.04
<ogra> slangasek, we dont do any special effort, userspace works as well as on other armel, the only issues are kernel related for 10.04 there is a "as good as it gets" approach
<slangasek> ogra: yes, I want things pinned down a bit more specifically then that; will discuss with asac on Monday as suggested
<asac> so on spec front only thing that is missing is email webservices, where i waited for permission to use icons of the mail providers ... i think this wont happen, so i am redoing bits of the integration to work well without icons. that will go up asap then we are set
<slangasek> asac: you have bug #532733 on your list, which is marked 'medium' - bump to 'high'?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<asac> slangasek: yes, we can make that high
<ogra> higs seems appropriate ...
<asac> we have no lead on that though
<slangasek> <shrug> you've marked it as a blocker and said it should be RC, so 'high'
<asac> yes
<asac> done
<slangasek> anything else?
<asac> the few thumb2 porting bugs will get resolved before beta-2
<asac> either by getting the real fix or by dropping to -marm ...
<asac> its two that have no fix according to my book
 * slangasek nods
<asac> besides from that we are done
<slangasek> any questions for mobile?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<asac> thanks ;)
<ogasawara> Overall Kernel Team status is summarised at the first URL below, including the items called out in the agenda.  Beta-2 activity is summarised at the second URL below, with items pushed out shown as At Risk.  The burndown chart for Beta-2 is at the third URL, and our burndown chart is at the fourth:
<ogasawara>     [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogasawara>     [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid#Milestone%20ubuntu-10.04-beta-2
<ogasawara>     [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara>     [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<slangasek> asac: thank you!
<ogasawara> Of the pushed out Beta-1 items, the investigative tasks are either complete or on track to be complete by beta-2.  The remaining items should be nearing completion with patches awaiting final review, test, and upload.
<ogasawara> On the items pulled out on the agenda, our blueprint status is as follows:
<ogasawara>   * The KMS strategy review has one bug In Progress with test kernels built and posted.  The other bug is still under investigation.  The remaining work item is investigative and should be on track to complete by beta 2.
<ogasawara>   * The ureadahead optimisation work remains to be tested but is a small patch kernel side and does not impact any features.
<ogasawara>   * Apparmor development saw another push to LKML this week and is still hoping to hit the 2.6.34 release.
<ogasawara>   * The configuration review is complete and patches to pull out some built-in drivers have been committed and released.
<ogasawara>   * For bug handling, the documentation review is now complete and a re-work of the kernel team wiki's is underway.
<ogasawara>   * The investigation of ALSA quirks which could likely leverage the device tree work has been postponed to M.
<ogasawara> Our list of bugs on the agenda grew quite substantially this week compared to last.  I've posted a status summary for each bug on our release status page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid .  Patches and/or test kernels have been posted for the majority.  Bug 491210 doesn't seem to have been confirmed to exist with Lucid so I'm questioning if this should really be milestoned for beta-2 at the moment.
<ogasawara>   I also assigned bug 544741 to our team to get futher investigation.  I'll get with apw asap when he returns to try to get kernels uploaded with fixes for the majority and avoid having to SRU these.  An upload should be happening today to close out bug 546929.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491210 in linux "[i865G] Monitor Resolution limited to 800x600" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544741 in linux "[X700] KMS, amd64: Kernel panic while trying to launch system > preferences > appearance" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546929 in linux "most PATA/SATA modules missing in Lucid netboot" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546929
<ogasawara> Also, linux-2.6.32-17.26 was uploaded last week and primarily contains the 2.6.32.10 stable patches. linux-fsl-imx51-2.6.31-605.10 was also uploaded last week and contains a fix for bug 537083. The new linux-ti-omap-2.6.33-500.3 also landed yesterday which should provide us a reference kernel for the TI OMAP ARM processor.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537083 in linux-fsl-imx51 "Suspend no longer works after updating to 2.6.31-605.9 kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537083
<ogasawara> <done>
<slangasek> ogasawara: "patches to pull out some built-in drivers" - do you mean that there are still some changes there that are committed but /not/ released, or have they all been released?
<ogasawara> slangasek: should all have been released
<slangasek> ok, because I'd have to nack any further reshuffling of the kernel config on that level, given the critical bug we already have regarding sata drivers missing from netboot
<ogasawara> slangasek: ack, the netboot bug was a result of that shuffling
<slangasek> yes :)
<ogasawara> slangasek: smb should be uploading that fix today
<cjwatson> netboot> and everything else
<cjwatson> (notwithstanding the bug title)
<slangasek> ScottK: looks like you've volunteered to test bug #491210?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491210 in linux "[i865G] Monitor Resolution limited to 800x600" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491210
<ScottK> slangasek: Yes, but didn't get to it yet.
<slangasek> ScottK: think you will by Monday?
<ScottK> Maybe.
<ScottK> Need to either find my USB stick or my stack of CDRs.
<slangasek> 357673 is an action item from me, to test the kernel patch that implements the alsa mixer for the thinkpad bios
<slangasek> I'll get that done today
<slangasek> ScottK: ack :)
<slangasek> any other questions for kernel?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> ogasawara: thanks
<pitti> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> beta-2 WIs are well on track (7 left to do), we are in almost 100% bug fixing mode now
<pitti> Good progress with RC and general bug fixing, but they keep coming in. (Which is actually an improvement in processes and cooperation with QA, thanks to them! At least we know very well where the fires are)
<pitti> Specs called out in release team meeting invitation:
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-xorg-multitouch: Code changes for Lucid are done. One remaining WI is testing, the other is evaluating kernel changes, which I believe was just forgotten to be closed. Will check with Andy when he comes back next week.
<pitti> - desktop-lucid-startup-speed: Only WI left is for OLS team, to defer startup of u1 sync daemon; being worked on, and trivial to fix
<pitti> - lucid-duplicated-packages: Dropping db4.7 still seems feasible to do; we probably have to defer tcl/tk8.4 at this point of the release cycle.
<pitti> Bugs called out in release team meeting invitation:
<pitti> - bug 537356 - that is for the mobile team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho "application menu entries dont do anything" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537356
<marjo> pitti: thank you!
<pitti> - as a fair trade, bug 432631 is in the desktop field now (from foundations)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432631 in sudo "clean up system/per-user proxy handling" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432631
<pitti> status for other bugs is on the wiki page, I spare the copy&paste
<pitti> I also have three questions to discuss, shall I go ahead with them?
<cjwatson> that's a fair trade as far as I'm concerned!
 * slangasek grins
<slangasek> pitti: yes, go ahead
<pitti> Last week, after releasing beta-1 with an one-day delay, we thawed very late (after Europe went to sleep and weekend already); that caused some interesting fallout over the weekend. For situations like that, can we either thaw earlier (when it's clear that we won't rebuild any more), or defer the thawing until the Monday after?
<cjwatson> my opinion at the time was that it wasn't clear that we'd have responded to the situation any more quickly on a Monday night than on a Friday night
 * pitti apologizes for the cdbs trouble
<cjwatson> I think it's worth examining the timeline in detail before responding
<pitti> well, there were some brave souls (thanks StevenK, persia) who worked on Saturday to fix it
<cjwatson> I think there are other things we should have done - there's no evidence that escalation was done to the extent of phoning people and getting them out of bed
<cjwatson> AFAICS
<pitti> so in this particular case it wasn't too bad
<pitti> cjwatson: no, there wasn't
<slangasek> pitti: I don't think it was practical to thaw earlier because the people who would do the thawing were still bound up in releasing
<pitti> it's just a general strawman proposal to mitigate the impact
<slangasek> we could have unfrozen the archive for new uploads but left the queue in place for later review?
<cjwatson> I'd have been concerned about momentum problems with thawing later
<slangasek> OTOH, I reviewed and accepted that cdbs upload thinking it looked reasonable in scope
<pitti> slangasek: that might be a good compromise
<cjwatson> some of the very same people who were saying we should have thawed on Monday were clamouring for a thaw on Friday :-)
<robbiew> cjwatson:FWIW, I was phoned...but could only update the twitter status :/
<ScottK> slangasek: I think a better idea is people shouldn't upload stuff during the freeze they don't want in before the milestone.
<pitti> cjwatson: I suppose you mean seb128?
<cjwatson> robbiew: were you out of your normal environment?
<cjwatson> pitti: I don't recall the names, and am not sure that naming names would be productive even if I did :)
<pitti> To be fair his concern was thawing on a Friday night, not thawing ASAP so that we can continue to develop lucid
<robbiew> cjwatson: yes...and by the time I returned...folks were working on it
<slangasek> ScottK: desktop team wouldn't be happy with that, their workflow involves pushing things off their desk and into the queue ASAP
<cjwatson> robbiew: ah
<pitti> anyway, no need to spend a long time discussing this, but I thought I'd bring it up
<pitti> slangasek: well, we do that because it's possible
<cjwatson> pitti: when it wasn't possible, there were many objections
<slangasek> pitti: and if it wasn't possible, seb128 wouldn't be happy :-)
<pitti> if it's better to not stash uploads that way, we can stop doing that
<pitti> we have bzr, after all
<cjwatson> I think it's fine to stash uploads that way, personally, but I think we could have responded better to the situation that arose
<cjwatson> there was some explicit handoff that wasn't done, too
<pitti> I guess it also comes down to "test your changes better" (which I take as a "brown paperbag" for me)
<cjwatson> it wasn't really perceived as a crisis until it was far too late, AFAICS
<ScottK> I know I initially was confused because the problem description sounded to me a lot like what the upload was intended to fix.  My initial thought was it was people who hadn't updated with problems.
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone for your opinions
<pitti> I guess I should go on
<pitti> FFE bug 546933 -- should we go ahead with this? It looks like a quite intrusive change, but it'd avoid releasing a third configuration format change for input devices, and also get us much better aligned with Debian; and it's also relatively easy to test; but like any change of that magnitude, there's a certain regression potential, of course
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 546933 in xorg-server "FFE: xorg.conf.d/inputclass backport" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546933
<pitti> should we disuss that in the meeting, or in the bug report?
<slangasek> bug report, I think
<pitti> ok
<pitti> </report>
<ScottK> For Kubuntu:
<ScottK> We expect KDE 4.4.2 tarballs to start packaging any moment now, so that should be our version for Beta 2 and almost certainly for release.  Likely we would upload this Monday or Tuesday.
<ScottK> Branding has already been discussed.
<ScottK> tseliot's Plymouth smooth transition patch for KDM is uploaded.  kdebase-workspace is building now.
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<slangasek> any other questions for desktop team?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<slangasek> njpatel_: around?
<slangasek> ok, moving on; we'll circle around if they show up later
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> Release collaboration with Debian: per doko, we currently have a pre-release of IcedTea 1.8 in lucid, and both lucid and squeeze will get 1.8 final (no new features) in time for lucid release
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<cjwatson> We are pretty much in full bug mode now; see the URL above for status of trailing work items.  slangasek, what's happening with foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries?
<cjwatson> There are still quite a few installer bugs (Steve expressed concern about this in the agenda), but we fixed three milestoned ones today and are making good parallel progress on several more.  The worst outstanding one is the LVM+encryption failure, which I'm working on.
<cjwatson> For full bug details, see the URL above.
<cjwatson> (that's it, short summary, long wiki)
<slangasek> cjwatson: supportable-binaries> I'm going to plow through this today/tomorrow
<njpatel_> slangasek, hey
<slangasek> njpatel_: hi; are you available to give us a DX status update after we finish w/ Foundations?
<davidbarth> slangasek: sorry, currently on a call; the weekly report is at the usual location: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus#preview
<cjwatson> slangasek: can I help?
<njpatel_> erm, let me see, I though dbarth was around for todays (I don't know the status of the blueprints)
<cjwatson> mind you maybe I should be fixing my bugs instead
<slangasek> cjwatson: yeah, I think having two people working on this is probably a waste, I just need to sit down and finish it
<slangasek> unfortunately it went long enough after UDS without action that the memories faded a bit, and the spec doesn't fully document the agreed algorithm for identifying removal candidatse
<ScottK> slangasek: We can discuss that if you want.
<ScottK> (later)
<slangasek> ScottK: sounds good
<slangasek> no more questions from me on Foundations; anyone else?
<cjwatson> the second beta has been good in that it's given us time to shake out a bunch of serious installer bugs, but it's been bad in that the bug flow has been enormous.
<cjwatson> we should post-mortem at UDS
 * slangasek nods
<pitti> however, we get a lot of "good" bug reports due to that, too
<marjo> cjwatson: agree, but i think it's a good thing overall
<cjwatson> pitti: we do, it's a mix
<pitti> mix> absolutely
<slangasek> post-mortem> we're not dead yet, let's save this conversation for UDS :)
<cjwatson> he's pushing up the daisies!
<marjo> slangasek: agree
<cjwatson> he's gone to join the choir invisible
<cjwatson> ahem
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/LucidReleaseStatus
<Keybuk> slangasek: easy for you to say
<slangasek> any questions for DX?
<slangasek> davidbarth, njpatel_: there were a couple of WIs on dx-lucid-me-menu that were still targeted to beta-1 which I've moved; it's ok if you don't have status on those currently, but I want to make sure it's on your radar
<njpatel_> slangasek, thanks, will take a look through the blueprints again
<slangasek> Keybuk: if you're dead, don't admit it, that'll just tell people you don't need to take breaks for physical needs ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<jdstrand> not a lot to report (again). we are in bug fixing mode. one bug worth mentioning is bug #528274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 528274 in ubuntuone-client "syncdaemon should have AppArmor profile" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528274
<jdstrand> it has been unmilestoned and deferred to lucid+1 due to all the changes with ubuntu-one that are still landing (ie, profiling a moving target is difficult). I suggested that we at least ship a supported but disabled profile, like we do with firefox, which we can turn on in 'm'. It seems the ubuntu-one people will do this.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any questions for security? :)
<jdstrand> none from me ;)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> sure! :)
<slangasek> sistpoty|work, ScottK: how goes?
<sistpoty|work> o/
 * ScottK lets sistpoty|work go first.
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: didn't have much time for ubuntu this week, so nothing to report from my side :(
<ScottK> There was some concern about the pace of syncs for the Ruby transition this week.
<ScottK> That got into a long discussion about how we deal with syncs in general.
<ScottK> I found out today that due to the fix for http://bugs.python.org/issue691291 landing in the archive in python2.6.5, we broke at least one package.
<ScottK> Fortunately the Debian maintainer had already fixed it and I got it sync'ed.
<ScottK> I don't know how many others (if any) got broken.
<ScottK> Bug #548849 is the one in question.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 548849 in gaupol "Sync gaupol 0.15.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548849
<ScottK> Do we have a good way to investigate this?
<ScottK> BTW, thanks jdstrand for the sync.
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<slangasek> doko: ^^ do you have any insight here?
<cjwatson> is there a way to grep for the problem?
<doko> looking
<cjwatson> we don't have an unpacked lintian lab like Debian, but we could do a full-source grep, it would just take a while ...
<ScottK> codecs.open( ... would give you a list.
<cjwatson> what was the breakage?
<ScottK> It wouldn't be all that use the function, just those that made the wrong assumption about binary/text mode.
<cjwatson> ah
<jdstrand> ScottK: you're welcome
<doko> hmm, have to run, will look at this tomorrow ...
<ScottK> slangasek: Maybe an action then.
<slangasek> doko: you're taking that action?
<slangasek> [ACTION] doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291
<MootBot> ACTION received:  doko to grep the archive for codecs.open in python code, to find other packages broken by http://bugs.python.org/issue691291
<slangasek> anything else?
<sistpoty|work> oh, we've got delegates still outstanding
<ScottK> We seem to be doing OK without ....
<sistpoty|work> *shrug*
<slangasek> I keep promising to reply to that email and it hasn't happened
<slangasek> I'm afraid part of it is I keep winding up bogged down trying to map nicknames in the mail to people
<slangasek> and then I get pulled away
<slangasek> I'll reply today for reals
<sistpoty|work> thanks!
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: if you want, I can resend with a list of lp-ids and names instead of only nicks
<slangasek> sistpoty|work: if you can do that quickly, that would certainly expedite my response :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<davidbarth> slangasek: it is, there's no remaining feature to implement; mostly a reminder to check for IM client status bugs (sorry to talk on another topic)
<slangasek> davidbarth: ok
<slangasek> going once...
<slangasek> going twice...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:44.
<slangasek> thanks, folks
<marjo> slangasek: thx
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sistpoty|work> slangasek: sent
<slangasek> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-03-28
<jussi01> o/
<jussi01> o/
<topyli> o/
<tsimpson> o/
<jussi01> nhandler: ?
<jussi01> tsimpson: you are chairing ;)
<tsimpson> I guess...
<tsimpson> if I can remember how to
<tsimpson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:06. The chair is tsimpson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<tsimpson> [TOPIC] Discuss what the floodbots are and are not for, why operators should not become reliant on them
<MootBot> New Topic:  Discuss what the floodbots are and are not for, why operators should not become reliant on them
<jussi01> right. :)
<tsimpson> so, this one is really just a "reminder" of what those bots are and are not
<tsimpson> I'll probably send an email about this too, but here it goes
<tsimpson> the FloodBots are not operators, they are just code with no common-sense
<tsimpson> the operators in a channel with the bots should monitor the bots (and be in the monitor channel)
<tsimpson> the bots may mute someone for flooding, but you still need to look out for repeat flooders/trolls
<tsimpson> and when the bots ban someone on notice, one of the ops should really start a dialogue with the user to see if it was an error
<jussi01> Yes, this definately needs to go to email.
<jussi01> and probably be added to the op guidelines
<tsimpson> basically, the bots are just tools and they do make mistakes, it's the job of the operators to monitor and correct their mistakes when necessary
<topyli> agreed, operators must understand this
<jussi01> ok, so shall we say bring it to the list and add to the guidelines?
<tsimpson> yep, a quick email and something in the guidelines
<jussi01> Ok, tsimpson are you going to do it then?
<tsimpson> I'll send the email
<topyli> tsimpson, maybe you should just say what you just said in mail and throw it to the wiki too
<jussi01> should we have a vote here?
<tsimpson> on the guidelines update, probably
<jussi01> tsimpson: can you make a vote then ? :D
<tsimpson> trying to phrase it properly
<tsimpson> [VOTE] the operator guidelines should be updated to include information on the floodbots
<MootBot> Please vote on:  the operator guidelines should be updated to include information on the floodbots.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<jussi01> Excellent. :)
<tsimpson> #endvote
<jussi01> I wonder where nhandler is...
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<tsimpson> we have 3+, so...
<topyli> jussi01, he did say he became uncertain if he'll be back in time from wherever he had to go
<tsimpson> [AGREED] the operator guidelines should be updated with information regarding the floodbots
<MootBot> AGREED received:  the operator guidelines should be updated with information regarding the floodbots
<jussi01> topyli: ok
<tsimpson> [AGREED] tsimpson to send an email to the mailing list with information on the floodbots
<MootBot> AGREED received:  tsimpson to send an email to the mailing list with information on the floodbots
<jussi01> Whats next?
<topyli> the core thing
<tsimpson> [TOPIC] Define what our core channels are and what makes a channel 'core'
<MootBot> New Topic:  Define what our core channels are and what makes a channel 'core'
<topyli> so i saw you guys having a good discussion earlier. the email discussion did not amount to an internet-wide debate
<jussi01> [19:19:52] <tsimpson> I'm thinking something like: A core channel is defined as an official channel in one of the following categories: * Support for an official Ubuntu derivative; * Main development channel for an official Ubuntu derivative; * Main off-topic/discussion channel for an official Ubuntu derivative; * Official IRC management related channel; The IRCC have the final say as to if a channel is considered a "core channel" and may,
<jussi01>  on occasion, add channels t
<jussi01> [19:19:53] <tsimpson> o the list that do not fall into the above categories
<jussi01> that is pretty close to what I think^^
<topyli> i like what that amounts to. we pretty much have the list or core channels now, but we weed to formally define it. we also need the final say
<tsimpson> this is what I got, a bit more refined: (flood)
<tsimpson> A core channel is defined as an official channel in one of the following categories:
<tsimpson>  * Support for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative
<tsimpson>  * Main development channel for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative
<tsimpson>  * Main off-topic/discussion channel for an officially supported or officially recognised Ubuntu derivative
<tsimpson>  * Official IRC management related channel
<tsimpson> The IRCC have the final say as to if a channel is considered a "core channel" and may, on occasion, add channels to the list that do not fall into the above categories.
<jussi01> We would then need to add the mytbuntu and xubuntu and ubuntustudio devel chans.
<Daviey> "The IRCC have the final say as to if a channel is considered a "core channel"" .. what if the channel doesn't *want* to be considered a core channel by the IRCC?
<tsimpson> jussi01: that's what I changed it to "officially supported or officially recognised" as xubuntu is recognised
<tsimpson> Daviey: why would they not?
<ScottK> tsimpson: Does it matter?
<topyli> Daviey, i can't see how a core channel can decide to not be core, say #ubuntu. the council must treat it as such
<Daviey> tsimpson: it seems somewhat rude for the ircc to just say "it's ours"..without any promiseof discussion or even informing.. and because it's "final say", no grounds to say otherwise.
<tsimpson> ScottK: only because I can't think of a reason why it would matter to them
<ScottK> tsimpson: Perhaps not everyone is thrilled to have the IRCC take over their channels.
<Daviey> tsimpson: #ubuntu-devel is an example of this.
<tsimpson> ScottK: you assume the IRCC will take over anything
<tsimpson> the IRCC is responsible for Ubuntu's IRC channels, why should we not decide if a channel is core?
<jussi01> Daviey: This can be discussed and revised. However, we have been delegated the duty to sort this out, so we are doing this. We havent had any complaint from Ubuntu devel saying otherwise.
<Daviey> hah, "we are doing this" .. why even have it in the meeting if it is already decided?
<jussi01> Daviey: the meeting is part of doing this...
<Daviey> jussi01: it seems it's already done.
<topyli> we do need to decide on whether or not to create a definition based on the above musings. this should be done in a meeting
<topyli> so let's
<guntbert> Daviey: the point of a meeting is to have proposals and to discuss/accept/decline them ...
<tsimpson> Daviey: why, specifically, would #ubuntu-devel object to being considered a core channel?
<topyli> guntbert, we've provide plenty of time to give feedback and suggestions on the mailing list
<topyli> provided
<ScottK> tsimpson: What would that be fixing that's broken?
<guntbert> topyli: agreed - I wasn't critizing the agenda :)
<Daviey> tsimpson: from history, it already has
<Tm_T> same
<Tm_T> the definition should include " * A channel that IRCC is been asked to include and has decided to include" ?
<Tm_T> ah, there
<jussi01> Daviey: From my discussions with Colin, there hasnt been an issue. Is there something you would like to bring up?
<Tm_T> Daviey: and falls into those defined categories?
<Daviey> Tm_T: that solves my issue.
<Tm_T> I think the additions outside of those categories needs to ask to be included, or IRCC cannot act
<topyli> ScottK, the council has been unable to answer the simple question, "what is a core channel and how to become one?" and we felt that was a problem worth soslving
<Daviey> jussi01: no.. i'm saying that from the past, it has been an issue.
<Tm_T> Daviey: you mean additions there, not currently considered channels, right?
<Tm_T> ScottK: take over?
<jussi01> Daviey: and We have a new ircc since then, and things seem to be going fairly smoothly over there.
<Tm_T> tsimpson: but if you decide what is core...
<Daviey> jussi01: yes.. but the definition isn't limited to #ubuntu-devel
<Tm_T> tsimpson: technically you could define it broad enough to contain all ubuntu channels (:
<topyli> Tm_T, we define it, we don't make it so
<tsimpson> Tm_T: that's why we are defining it here, so we have something to refer to
<jussi01> Daviey: Is there an issue we should know about here? has something happened that we have missed?
<Daviey> jussi01: no
<Tm_T> I think the dialogue is needed when adding new channels yes, especially when they doesn't fall in one of those categories
<Tm_T> but for current core channels, no new discussion round to be needed I think
<ScottK> Some of you will recall that #kubuntu-devel did not initially react well to the arrival of the IRCC.
<tsimpson> and we discussed the issues they had and came to a resolution
<Daviey> but the changes which are being done, doesn't mandate a discussion
<tsimpson> the main issue, as I recall, was that they thought the IRCC was taking over all management of the channel, which is not the case
<Daviey> it's outlining "we own you, if we decide, and there is nothing you can do"
<Tm_T> tsimpson: topyli: ye
<jussi01> I think the idea here is that there will be core ops available across a certain set of channels. This was asked for by Mark. We understand that devel channels act differently to support channels, so there are 2 groups of core ops.
<Tm_T> ScottK: true, mostly because it wasn't discussed beforehand, we are not changing anything for it
<ScottK> Sounds like this core channel thing is more of the same.
<ScottK> You are one and there's nothing you can do.
<Tm_T> Daviey: being a core channel isn't about owning in my mind
<topyli> Tm_T, we have called for discussion on the mailing list
<topyli> mostly because very long debates are very convenient when the meeting is already on and we should decide
<Tm_T> true
<ScottK> Just keep in mind that 'the mailing list' only gets you a very narrow slice of the Ubuntu community involved in the discussion.
<topyli> it gets the irc team, which is a good population for discussions such as this
<ScottK> Just don't expect people not on the IRC team to automatically agree with what you've decided among yourselves.
<topyli> all users of ubuntu irc channels are not expected to agree with us
<jussi01> Ok, so to the task at hand. Are there any other issues with the idea tsimpson put up?
<topyli> no. we can always refine the wording so it's nice and ambiguous, but i'm happy with it
<Tm_T> same
<tsimpson> so let's vote
<tsimpson> [VOTE] add the definition of a "core channel" to the /IRC/IrcTeam/Scope wiki document
<MootBot> Please vote on:  add the definition of a "core channel" to the /IRC/IrcTeam/Scope wiki document.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
 * tsimpson pokes jussi01
<jussi01> sorry
<jussi01> so thats core channel as specified above?
<topyli> yep
<jussi01> or just adding it in general?
<jussi01> ok
<tsimpson> yeah, it can always be modified later
<jussi01> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi01. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<tsimpson> [AGREED] add the definition of a "core channel" to the /IRC/IrcTeam/Scope wiki document
<MootBot> AGREED received:  add the definition of a "core channel" to the /IRC/IrcTeam/Scope wiki document
<jussi01> Just want to say, for Daviey and ScottK and others, Please dont hesitate to bring things up you want to see changed - even if they are written on the wiki. its not a stone wiki :D We promise to have a look at the situation and listen to things that are vbrought up.
<tsimpson> I think that's it, unless anyone has any other (short) issues?
<jussi01> We may not agree, but we can talk about it.
<topyli> shall we action that to someone, or will we fight about it later?
<tsimpson> @random jussi01 tsimpson topyli
<ubottu> topyli
<tsimpson> I guess it's you :)
<topyli> brilliang :)
<tsimpson> if that's it then, I'll end the meeting
<topyli> fair enough, i'll add it. as is, and we go polish as needed
<jussi01> thats it from me
<tsimpson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:51.
<topyli> oh one more thing
<topyli> not really of course :)
<jussi01> tsimpson: remember to do the minutes and stuff.
<Tm_T> thanks tsimpson and others
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-21
<JackyAlcine> o/
<mdeslaur> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> here
<jdstrand> alright, let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:22. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> I contacted xorg-security@ list and would be good if members of the ubuntu-security joined that list
<jdstrand> I followed up and security@ubuntu.com should now be joined
<sbeattie> yep
<jdstrand> I don't think there are any other action items
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> kees is on holiday today. I am not sure everything he has planned, but he is triager for the week, and I noticed kernels are getting ready for publication
<jdstrand> as for me, I'm in the happy place
<jdstrand> I am working on several updates (libvirt, openldap and dbus-glib)
<jdstrand> I've still not followed up on the bunch of little bugs I keep talking about, but need to do that (esp for ufw) before Thursday, which is the freeze for beta
<jdstrand> I should be looking into Blackhat registration
<jdstrand> as well as archive admin work for Beta
<jdstrand> that should be it for me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on happy place this week, but since kees is triager and on holiday, I'll pick up the triager role
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on php5 and subversion, and will pick up a couple of more things to work on this week
<mdeslaur> That's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: fyi, I think he'll be on at least Tue and Wed...
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're next
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: oh? ok...I'll triage whenever he's not here
<sbeattie> I covered mdeslaur's triage last week, I guess I'm on community this week...
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> I think mdeslaur updated the /topic for that
<jdstrand> sbeattie: btw, I uploaded the security fake sync for libcgroup this morning, so you don't have to worry about that
<sbeattie> jdstrand: cool, thanks.
<mdeslaur> I just put whatever I thought the next rotation was, but if that's not appropriate, we can change it
<jdstrand> that feels appropriate to me...
<sbeattie> right, I'd thought this week was my regular triage week.
<sbeattie> but, whatever works.
<sbeattie> anyway, published krb5 and the armel openjdk (huzzah, finally) last week.
<sbeattie> I pushed up an apparmor 2.6.1 release candidate this morning, and want to release the final version this week (it's a small set of fixes over 2.6.0)
<sbeattie> In particular, mod_apparmor is broken in natty
<sbeattie> will also submit a merge to fix for natty before beta freeze
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are you planning to package that for natty before beta?
<jdstrand> ah
<jjohansen> small but important fixes
<sbeattie> yeah
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I fixed via non-variable the multiarch stuff so natty wasn't broken, but we should make a decision on what to do there
<jdstrand> (as upstream)
<jdstrand> then merge that into the update
<sbeattie> right, I saw that, but haven't thought about it carefully.
 * jdstrand either
<sbeattie> anyway, I'll probably try to pick up another update this week
<sbeattie> and I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> micahg: you're up
<micahg> sorry, I apparently was thought I was here before, but wasn't
<micahg> going through webkit CVEs, then will prepare uploads for karmic-maverick
<micahg> guessing there will be a chromium update we need later this week...
<jdstrand> lovely
<micahg> we dodged 2 already :)
<micahg> next round of mozilla updates hopefully not until Apr 19
 * jdstrand nods
<micahg> I'm worried about xulrunner-1.9.2 in natty since it will be unsupportable, so I might look and see what I can do there after webkit is done (probably not this week)
<micahg> and I haven't piloted yet, so that will be sometime before the end of the month
<micahg> I think that's it
<jdstrand> micahg: re xul> sounds reasonable-- please coordinate/share load with chrisccoulson
<micahg> jdstrand: will do
<chrisccoulson> at this moment in time, i think that xul-2.0 is more unsupportable ;)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: we need to chat about that in a bit :)
<chrisccoulson> from the ML discussion upstream, it is only going to be supported until ff-5.0 is released
<chrisccoulson> which will be 3 months ;)
<chrisccoulson> or 4
<micahg> chrisccoulson: and 1.9.2 will probably be dropped next month ;)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<jdstrand> I'll let you two duke that out outside of this meeting
<jdstrand> :)
<micahg> right
<chrisccoulson> kill it
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<jdstrand> +1
<chrisccoulson> i'm wasting far too much time on a load of crappy applications i never use ;)
<jdstrand> seriously, it is turning into an internal dependency these days...
<jdstrand> why not just embrace it :)
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> micahg: thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> first up, self-eval part of performance reviews are due by the 25th. I ask that you have them done by the 24th if possible so I can look at them
<jdstrand> (I need to countersign them, etc, and would rather not be trying to fix problems on friday after HR went home)
<jdstrand> also, I wanted to mention oss-security@
<jdstrand> I'm not sure how others are dealing with it, but I have personally not been looking at it extremely closely. I think that is wrong
<jdstrand> esp with the demise of vsec
<jdstrand> wrong because I noticed that mitre has been quite slow recently, and people are releasing things before CVEs are in our tracker
<jdstrand> s/people/other distros/
<jdstrand> so, please keep oss-security@ in mind when triager
<jdstrand> I don't have anything else
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is there anything you'd like to bring up for us to help with?
<jdstrand> (or anything else)
<jjohansen> hrmm, nothing I can think of atm
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> I think that is a wrap then
<jdstrand> thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:50.
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-22
<zul> hi
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<jamespage> o/
<zul> who is running the meeting?
<raphink> hello :)
<jamespage> zul: SpamapS
<jamespage> (according to the wiki)
<zul> good good
<jamespage> speak of the devil and he shall appear!
<SpamapS> ---===}o{
<smb> *poof*
 * SpamapS parks the ti-fighter
<SpamapS> Well then, lets not delay
<SpamapS> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is SpamapS.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<hallyn> o/
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred)
<Daviey> dammit... deferred.
<SpamapS> alright
<SpamapS> [ACTION] Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to talk with wider docs team regarding translations (deferred)
<Daviey> thanks.
<SpamapS> Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug.
<Daviey> That is making progress, but not as good as we had hoped
<Daviey> Have been in contact with upstream, cjwatson and security team and Debian Maintainer.
<Daviey> (of isc-dhcp)
<soren> Which bug is this?
<Daviey> It's likely it needs a patch to resolve a potential regression
<SpamapS> yes bug number would be helpful
<Daviey> soren, one mo
<soren> ta
<Daviey> bug #717166
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<SpamapS> Daviey: shall we carry that over to next week as well then?
<Daviey> SpamapS, it's being followed up on... please
<Daviey> thanks
<SpamapS> [ACTION] Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to post another followup one euca-dhcp bug.
<SpamapS> smb to look into kernel fs modules config for bug 732046
<Daviey> ta
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 732046 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Missing filesystem modules in -virtual package" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732046
<SpamapS> smb: want to cover that during your time later?
<smb> I think there was the missing codepage sumbmitted for sru
<smb> its ok now as well
<smb> An extra modules package is rather unlikely
<smb> But rather have a limited set (what is really needed) in the virtual build
<smb> ..
<SpamapS> alright that seems covered
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Natty Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
<SpamapS> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<SpamapS> Seems we need to pick up the pace or start postponing
<SpamapS> s/start/continue/
<SpamapS> wow.. lively bunch.. don't everybody talk at once please.
<raphink> \o/
 * smb did a natty server install and feels aubergine...
<SpamapS> So anyway, we should be hovering around 75% completion
<SpamapS> smb: ^5
<SpamapS> Moving on..
<RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: sir yes sir :P
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<RoAkSoAx> TLF, April 2nd, both kirkland and I are presenting
<SpamapS> As noted previously, I will be at the MySQL User's Conference April 13/14, speaking on April 13 about Drizzle on Natty.
<kirkland> \o/
<SpamapS> whats TLF?
<kirkland> and UDS-O is comming up
<kirkland> Texas Linux Fest, SpamapS
<robbiew> Texas Linux Fest
<jamespage> good luck!
<SpamapS> Nice
<raphink> the lone star conf
<SpamapS> I blieve sponsorship nominations for UDS-O are due by next Tuesday right?
<SpamapS> Is there a wiki page or google calendar with only Ubuntu Server related events?
<zul> nope
<SpamapS> That would be cool.. ;)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> are you starting one? :)
<SpamapS> noep
<SpamapS> hggdh: here? got anything?
<hggdh> Only update from me: Daviey and I are trying the change to DHCP proposed by Euca, but no success yet
 * hggdh was typing :-)
<hggdh> oh
<hggdh> and dear jamespage is bringing on Jenkins for real :-)
 * SpamapS gets all giddy
<hggdh> questions for me?
<hggdh> a last point, really: I would like ideas on *what* we can test for server
<SpamapS> hggdh: what is the average air speed velocity of an unladen Macaw?
<hggdh> SpamapS, slightly faster than a, er, laden, one
<hallyn> libvirt-tck and kvm-autotest :)
<SpamapS> hggdh: boot, install a package from the seed, shutdown, boot back up.. see if the root fs was unmounted properly. ;)
 * hggdh goes writing down
<SpamapS> hggdh: jhunt and I are going to propose jenkins jobs that do that on every upload.
<hggdh> SpamapS, perfect!
<jamespage> SpamapS: sounds good
<hggdh> hallyn, kvm-autotest... will look at it.
<SpamapS> jamespage: I'm so glad you say that and not "thats impossible!!"
<SpamapS> :)
<SpamapS> ok lets move on
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
 * smb thinks people aught to know he is feeling very depressed (about Xen)
<smb> Apart from that
<hallyn> hggdh: cool.  i have some work to do for ubuntu guests.
<jamespage> hggdh: everythings possible with Jenkins...
<smb> there is one thing I wanted to bring up
<smb> bug 720095
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720095 in linux (Ubuntu) "vsftpd causes a vmalloc space leak in Lucid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720095
<smb> Looking at that basically brought up that having NET_NS (network namespaces) enabled in Lucid was not the best idea
<smb> Because teardown is slow as hell
<hallyn> quantify?
<smb> IT was done to support some containerize stuff, the question to the server-team would be, how loud would be the expected complaining and shouting should we need to disable it
<smb> hallyn, 1 namespace per second
<hallyn> very
<smb> while you easily can create 8 in the same time
<hallyn> is there a cherrypickable fix?
<smb> That is sort of the problem
<smb> I have not really found a smallish change (yet) and not sure there is one
<hallyn> lots of ppl using lxc on lucid, so turning off is not really an option
<smb> There has been a long series of changes towards Maverick
<hallyn> hm
<smb> that batched up destruction
<hallyn> yeah it rings a bell
<SpamapS> is it possible to use the maverick kernel on lucid for heavy lxc usage?
<hallyn> what do other distros do?
<smb> The last hope is to try whether locking could be relaxed in inet_twsk_purge, but that is probably neither simple
<hallyn> they may have a patch...
<smb> Well, the option was marked experimental at that time
<smb> Not sure they use it
<hallyn> which means little :)
<smb> SpamapS, The problem seems to be in that case that there is other problems somewhere else preventing to use the maverick kernel
<SpamapS> also can you boot a lucid guest on LXC from maverick?
<hallyn> well i dont mind tracking thagt down next week
<hallyn> yes
<smb> SpamapS, don't now (boot lucid gues on lxc)
<smb> know
<hallyn> but that won't ease user's minds who want stable host
<smb> I have been making a backport for the approach of queuing /batching ns destrucktion
<smb> from upstream
<hallyn> who from?
<smb> Though it seems to work, it is 6 or 7 patches
<SpamapS> hallyn: if they start w/ natty, that will get them to the next LTS .. so its not the worst thing.
<smb> from between 2.6.32 and 2.6.35
<smb> Side effect is that connection speed goes down
<SpamapS> smb: how likely is that to be SRU'able?
<smb> I mean the rate of connects to the vsftp server
<hallyn> cnxn spd?
<hallyn> you mean veth data rate?
<hallyn> or dev creation?
<smb> SpamapS, Only in emergencies I geuss
<hallyn> ah
<smb> hallyn, rather dev creation I guess
<smb> (its similar in Maverick)
<smb> I just don't know whether that could be seen as a regression in Lucid
<hallyn> there will be loud cries if netns is turned off in lucid
<smb> Anyway. That was mainly what I wanted to know. :)
<hallyn> smb: thx :)
<SpamapS> smb: anything else?
<smb> nope
<smb> other questions?
<smb> does not seem to
<smb> so I am done
<SpamapS> smb: thx!
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<SpamapS> So .. sommer has I think officially disappeared. Should we approach the ubuntu doc team about our need for a server guide maintainer?
<SpamapS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs?field.searchtext=server&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<SpamapS> haha whoops
<SpamapS> anyway, server guide bugs are mounting. :-P
<hallyn> sure?
<SpamapS> Hah ok glad we have consensus
<jamespage> sounds like we need to
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<kim0> Howdy folks .. Just a reminder that Ubuntu Cloud Days is tomorrow 4pm UTC .. Please spread/tweet/dent ...etc
<kim0> Updates to the schedule include an OpenStack session, thanks soren
<kim0> A Eucalyptus session thanks obino, and Daviey has made up his mind and doing puppet :) Thanks Daviey
<kim0> That's basically all for me
 * SpamapS will be doing a demo of Ensemble as well
 * Daviey screams.
<kim0> Rock n Roll @SpamapS
<hallyn> Daviey: sshhhh
<SpamapS> kim0: dekujume moc! (thank you very much)
<kim0> :)
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> hallyn: go!
<hallyn> ?
<SpamapS> [hallyn] Reduce meeting notes delivery duplication? (blog post only, perhaps?)
<hallyn> oh, yes.
<hallyn> what SpamapS said :)
<SpamapS> hallyn: do you know about the unbuntuserver-minutes code?
<hallyn> can we agt least drop ubuntu-devel?
<kim0> SpamapS: It's a language google translate doesn't seem to know about .. what's that
<hallyn> i tried it once
<SpamapS> hallyn: I have a fixed version that works a little better  lp:~clint-fewbar/+junk/ubuntuserver-minutes/
<hallyn> and it avoids the need to reformat?
<SpamapS> hallyn: allows to send to multiple email addresses at once.
<SpamapS> yes it renders the page from the wiki
<SpamapS> into the email and blog post
<hallyn> SpamapS: can you put a link in mtg notes?
<hallyn> i'll try it next time
<hallyn> sounds awesome.
<SpamapS> [ACTION] SpamapS to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  SpamapS to put his version of ubuntuserver-minutes in directions for writing minutes
<SpamapS> Anything else?
<hallyn> thx!
<SpamapS> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> Tuesday, March 29 2011 16:00 UTC
<SpamapS> Be there or be square (I'll be square.. on holiday)
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:39.
<hallyn> \o
<raphink> :)
<jamespage> cheerio all :-)
<raphink> bye
<kirkland> o/
<JFo> o/
<sconklin> \o
<herton> o/
<kamal> o/
<vanhoof> \o/
<cking> p/
<sforshee> o/
<smb> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (8 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta 1 Milestoned Bugs (88 across all packages (down 16)) ====
<JFo>  * 4 linux kernel bugs (down 4)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (273 across all packages (down 20)) ====
<JFo>  * 20 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 73 Linux Bugs (up 2)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 94 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:83 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
<JFo> nothing to report
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw)
<ogasawara> We've uploaded the 2.6.38-7.38 kernel which is a no change upload to rebuild against the recent compiler update.  I do not expect any further uploads of the kernel until after Beta.  Note that Beta freeze is this Thursday.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Last week, all kernels except Dapper completed QA and certification testing, and were released.
<sconklin> || Dapper has now completed testing and should be released soon.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || New packages have been placed in -proposed, beginning another cycle. However, due to the upcoming Natty
<sconklin> || release and insufficient testing resources, it is expected that further SRU kernels will not be released until
<sconklin> || May. However, the stable kernel team will continue to hold to a normal two week cadence, and complete
<sconklin> || verification of fixes for each cycle until release testing can resume.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-55.93         || 2.6.15-57.94         ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.15.56            || 2.6.15.57            ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.15    || 2.6.15-55.13         || 2.6.15-57.15         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || hardy    linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24   ||                      || 2.6.24.18-29.9       ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24       || 2.6.24-28.47         || 2.6.24-29.48         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.24    || 2.6.24-28.37         || 2.6.24-29.38         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.24.28.30         || 2.6.24.29.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.24-28.86         || 2.6.24-29.88         ||    2 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-mvl-dove                    || 2.6.32-211.27        || 2.6.32-216.33        ||   32 ||       27 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               || 2.6.32.209.12        || 2.6.32.216.18        ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   12 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.30         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.4               || 1.34.7               ||    1 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.60         ||    5 ||        1 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-mvl-dove                    ||                      || 2.6.32-416.33        ||   17 ||       14 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-mvl-dove               ||                      || 2.6.32.416.6         ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.4               || 1.38.5               ||    3 ||        2 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.49         || 2.6.35-28.50         ||    6 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  359 Natty Bugs (up 62)
<JFo>  1232 Maverick Bugs (up 14)
<JFo>  1045 Lucid Bugs (up 11)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 42 maverick bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 75 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 162 natty bugs (up 31)
<JFo>   * 242 maverick bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 221 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 8 natty bugs (up 3)
<JFo>   * 0 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> I've postponed today's bug day to next week. I was unable to prepare for it, so I will send out e-mail
<JFo> today for the next one which should be covering bugs in the confirmed state.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> Are bug days accomplishing anything ?
<JFo> seem to be, just not as much as I would like for them to
<bjf> ok
<bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> Answered some askubuntu questions with the help of various team members. Other than that, it was a slow week for triage.
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:07.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<cking> wow speedy
<jjohansen> thanks bjf
<sconklin> thanks!
<ogasawara> record time, thanks bjf
<kamal> thanks bjf
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-23
<mvo> hi
<jhunt> howdi
<barry> o/
<cjwatson> hi
<ev> hi
<doko_> hi
 * cjwatson wonders if robbiew is around
<psurbhi> hi
<robbiew> o/
<robbiew> sorry...lost track of time
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:06. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * robbiew enabled 11n speed on his Intel wireless adapter
<robbiew> un-blacklisted it
<robbiew> ....*pretty* good
<robbiew> but sometimes I'm dropped...without any visible indication :/
<robbiew> beyond no one responding to me on mumble or irc
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> okie dokie
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> mvo?
<mvo> Slightly shorter week, took friday
<mvo> Apt-clone: add integration with update-manager, add packaging, bootstrap first if restore dir does not exist, fixes in {save,restore}_state, better tests
<mvo> Apt-ordering: bug triage over the dpkg issues (I don't like bug triage), able to reproduce only #571030 and only on karmic->lucid (pre-depends ordering bug with openoffice.org)
<mvo> Apt: fix issues in the mirror method: used mirror display, InRelease file ahndl\
<mvo> ing, per-host randomization, new upload
<mvo> auto-upgrade-tester: got a bigger disk in pommerac! apt-clone restore python-all test-image
<mvo> Python-apt: help backport maverick python-apt to lucid (for nxvl, lamont)
<mvo> Rnr-server: look over aarons usefulness-by-user review
<mvo> Software-center: debug/fix crash with new zeitgeist, fix test in pathbar-work-mvo branch, review/merge arrons review-usefulness branch, upload new version
<mvo> unatttended-upgrades: upload new version (FFe #729214)
<mvo> (done)
<robbiew> wow...I'd hate to see how long that list would be if you DID work Friday
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> thnx
<mvo> barry:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/584357 <- if you are interessted in the few python releated messages from the post-upgrade test
<mvo> lol
<robbiew> jhunt?
<jhunt> Worked on bug 436936. Helped out a bit on bug 737487: this needs more
<jhunt> user input before we consider merging I think since (a) I am unable to
<jhunt> recreate the problem (some) users are seeing and (b) we need more
<jhunt> testers! Got the Upstart vim syntax highlighting accepted by Bram
<jhunt> upstream. Appraisal stuff. Fixed initctl2dot (although no MP yet) which
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Karmic) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<jhunt> is currently broken as a result of the new "emits" Upstart syntax. Wrote
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 737487 in bootchart (Ubuntu) "Bootchart data not generated" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/737487
<jhunt> as-yet unpublished blog post on visualisation which will be published
<jhunt> when the initctl2dot fix is unleashed. Most of my time has been spent
<jhunt> investigating chroot bug 728531 (very convoluted debugging).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728531 in upstart (Ubuntu Natty) "chroot support is not reliable" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728531
<jhunt> Making progress, but my feeling is that quite a lot needs to change.
<jhunt> Begun work on an Upstart intro/cookbook/best-practises guide with Clint:
<barry> mvo: thanks.  have you filed any bugs on those?
<jhunt> https://launchpad.net/~upstart-documenters. Output is here:
<jhunt> http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/cookbook. We are currently
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/cookbook. We are currently
<jhunt> collecting content and at an appropriate juncture, I'll perform fix-up
<jhunt> and convert it to docbook to gain maximum benefit. We haven't announced
<jhunt> it yet as it is still very "raw" (and incomplete), but... err, I guess I
<jhunt> just announced it! :-) Comments, suggestions and abuse welcome.
<jhunt> EOT
<mvo> barry: some old ones, haven't had the time to look prperly
<barry> mvo: k, np
<psurbhi> jhunt, cool! :)
<jhunt> Oops! commen re 737487 needing more work is wrong - that comment refers to 436936.
<psurbhi> jhunt, the cookbook looks very useful, thanks!
<robbiew> whoohoo for Upstart documentation!!!
<mvo> cookbook \o/
<jhunt> please let myself + clint have comments, suggestions!! I'd like some more udev examples if you have any for example :)
<robbiew> thnx jhunt
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> mostly recovering from pycon (catching up on email, administrivia, etc.); writing pep 396; looking at pycentral->dhpy2 transitions; done.
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> cjwatson: ?
<cjwatson> done: RC bug-fixing: grub Xen detection (692691), live-boot dependency tweak (724452), mklibs multiarch (737055), bootchart multiarch (737487), review/sponsoring of vesafb rearrangement (702090), console-setup in chroot (738159), d-i accessibility (739445), grub2 move-mount handling for Wubi (738345, mostly finished)
<cjwatson> todo: more RC bug-fixing, at least: plymouth missing text display (728611); performance self-appraisal
<cjwatson> --
<mvo> impressive list of fixes
<cjwatson> [I say "mostly finished" but it has just mysteriously broken; love playing whack-a-mole :-/]
<robbiew> indeed...those are some heavy hitter bugs
<robbiew> cjwatson: thnx!
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> Short week; travel from Pycon on Thursday, and then the usual catch up.  Last day of sprinting at Pycon (expanding test coverage in the standard library and fixing bugs in Python 3).  Fixing bugs in ubiquity and partman-auto, attempting to break upgrade/reinstall functionality to surface any bugs.
<ev> Using Mock to greatly expand the test coverage in ubiquity. TODO: merge expanded tests branch, fix layout issues on the partitioning page, keep trying to break ubiquity, and write more tests (done)
<robbiew> \o/ for expanded test coverage
<robbiew> thnx ev
<robbiew> doko?
<robbiew> PyCon recovery...bootstrap...multiarch...yada yada :P
<ev> heh
<robbiew> will come back to him
<robbiew> psurbhi?
<psurbhi> *) Worked on the samba bug 526464 (traced the output logs and wireshark trace - identified where the bug lies and traced some code, before giving up on this)
<psurbhi> *) submitted a merge proposal for a mdadm bug: #728435
<psurbhi> *) resumed work on event driven initramfs - added support in upstart to chroot and execvp the real root. Ongoing work - rewriting code as per upstart's standards (https://code.launchpad.net/~csurbhi/upstart/upstart-add-pivot-handling) and jhunt's review
<psurbhi> *) also wrote a script that overwrites the /etc/fstab in initramfs depending on the kernel command line argument.
<psurbhi> (DONE)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 526464 in samba (Ubuntu) "intermittent authentication: check_ntlm_password: Authentication for user [someuser] -> [someuser] FAILED with error NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526464
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728435 in mdadm (Ubuntu Natty) "raid1 boot degraded mode fails" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728435
<cjwatson> the mdadm merge is just waiting for you to address a few small review comments, BTW - if you can still do that today, I can sponsor that fix in time for beta-1
<psurbhi> ok
<robbiew> thnx psurbhi
<psurbhi> cjwatson, i will do that
<psurbhi> thanks
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Natty
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty
<robbiew> Beta 1 freeze tomorrow
<robbiew> luckily we now have a Beta 2...so no worries :P
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> I'm going to ratchet up my bug involvement...make sure we work on the important ones...and politely push others to updates where possible
<cjwatson> could somebody deal with bug 690873?  I'd hoped to, but I'm not sure I'm going to get to it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690873 in sudo (Ubuntu Natty) "latest natty sudo upgrade prompts for conffile update and potentially removes %admin from /etc/sudoers" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690873
<cjwatson> it's cleaning up a mess that was created towards the end of last year
<cjwatson> fairly ugly conffile handling
<mvo> I meant to work on this since a couple of days but something came in between everytime, I can give it a shoot tomorrow
<cjwatson> many thanks
<doko_> robbiew: just for completness:
<doko_> came back from PyCon, more porting work, final (?) toolchain updates (robbiew, read "bux fixes"), gcc-4.6 testing before the upstream release, preparing openjdk updates for beta1
<robbiew> doko_: ack
<robbiew> mvo: thanks sir!
<mvo> (responsible for most of the warning in the auto-upgrader-tester currently)
<barry> cjwatson: what's the status of that wubi bug?
<cjwatson> barry: which one?
<robbiew> heh
<barry> ;)  let me find the bug number...
<cjwatson> barry: bug 693671 you mean?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693671 in Wubi "wubi install will not boot - phase 2 stops with: Try (hd0,0): NTFS5" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693671
<barry> yep
<cjwatson> dead and gone, I'll close out the wubi task now
<robbiew> barry: read cjwatson's blog ;)
<barry> awesome
 * barry will!
<ev> (there's also a lovely blog post by cjwatson on it)
<robbiew> is there an echo in here?
<robbiew> lol
<ev> oh, whoops
<ev> whatevs
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Oneiric
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric
<robbiew> I'm slacking on requirements
<robbiew> will put out a call to the Server community today...and create a FoundationsTeam wiki page for us to note features we'd like
<robbiew> I think allison is also driving a wider Ubuntu community request for features too
<robbiew> that will feed into the various teams
<doko_> binNMUs ...
<wendar> have a post about ready to go to ubuntu devel
<robbiew> be sure to send me names of people you had sign up for sponsorship
<robbiew> wendar: cool
<cjwatson> doko_: we did a complete spec for that in LP a while back, AFAIK it's purely blocked on resources there :-/
 * robbiew had to think for a second of who the hell "wendar" was 
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> unless somebody wants to be an LP hacker for a couple of weeks
<cjwatson> (oh, speaking of which, we should have data.tar.xz and orig.tar.xz support shortly, once all the bits are rolled out)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB/GoodNews
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB/GoodNews
<cjwatson> should've listed that in the lightning round
<cjwatson> please look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs?field.milestone=33574 for anything you can help clear up
<mvo> got some really nice fixes for squid-deb-proxy today, contributors/community is just awsome
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> multiarch has arrived!!!!
<cjwatson> heh, actually using it is tricky due to bug 740072
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740072 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "apt.Cache.__iter__ breaks when multiarch is enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740072
<cjwatson> tends to cause postinsts to fail :-/
<jhunt> cjwatson: if you can recreate, could you sanity check my gdm.conf fix on bug 436936?
<mvo> *ough* I need to look into this
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436936 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu Karmic) "gdm upstart job checks /proc/cmdline for single user mode, won't start on post-boot runlevel change" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436936
<cjwatson> jhunt: ok, will try ...
<cjwatson> (once I clear out laptop state)
<robbiew> jhunt: if you are looking for further testers...mdz hits this one :P
<jhunt> robbiew: thx! I'll ping him...
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:36.
<robbiew> thnx all!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks!
<ev> thanks
<jhunt> thx!
<jhunt> it's that echo again :)
<barry> cjwatson: impressive!
<cjwatson> took way too long :-/
<cjwatson> not an easy bug
<james_w> hi
<jelmer> 'evening James
<jelmer> How's your week?
<barry> hi guys.  hopefully usa@dst hasn't messed us up too much.  starting in 2m
<jelmer> barry: Seems about right
<jelmer> g'morning poolie
<james_w> good thanks jelmer
 * slangasek waves
<poolie> hi all
<CensoredBiscuit> hi all
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi everybody and welcome to this week's udd meeting.  it's been a few weeks, how is everyone?
<poolie> good
<poolie> it feels like a long time
<barry> indeed
<barry> [TOPIC] agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110323
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110323
<poolie> thanks for chairing, barry
<barry> poolie: np!
<barry> hi jelmer, james_w.  anybody know if jam is around?
<james_w> I don't
<barry> shall we jump right in then?
<poolie> remember he's in europe now, so this is late at night for him
<poolie> like 11pm
<poolie> let's go
<barry> ah, right
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * poolie to advertise udd projects to non-staff contributors
<barry>  
<jelmer> barry: jam was around an hour or so ago but mentioned he was heading out
<barry> jelmer: thanks
<poolie> i think done
<poolie> but if other people have good ideas for how to get more help on it i would welcome them
<poolie> or, they can just do it :)
<barry> poolie: cool.  related: is bzr participating in gsoc this year?
<poolie> no
<poolie> i don't think it's a good tradeoff on the whole
<barry> okay.  if there were interest, it could be done under the psf umbrella
<barry>    * poolie to integrate jml's feedback into lep
<barry>  
<poolie> yes, done
<barry>    * poolie to meet with robbiew re lep
<barry>  
<poolie> not yet sorry
<poolie> carry it over
<barry> poolie: will do
<barry>    * jam to propose/report plan for quilt imports
<barry>  
<barry> i'm guessing that's to be carried over...
<poolie> there was some discussion about them probably needing to be imported to looms
<poolie> i'm not sure if jam's action is to do more than that
<barry> i'll send him an email to get his status
<poolie> ok, good
<barry>    * poolie talk to stakeholders about bfbip scheduling
<barry>  
<barry> poolie: remind me what bfbip means? ;)
<poolie> build from branch into primary
<poolie> and i have not done it yet
<barry> poolie: ah yes, of course, thanks
<poolie> :(
<poolie> but i will soon
<barry> cool
<barry>    * poolie to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<barry>  
<poolie> !
<poolie> thanks for the reminder :)
<poolie> jelmer could i hand that off to you?
<barry> poolie: np.  i can help with that if you want
<poolie> or you, barry?
<jelmer> poolie: Yes, sure
<barry> jelmer: why don't you and i chat about it tomorrow?
<jelmer> barry: sure, sounds good
<barry> [ACTION] jelmer and barry to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jelmer and barry to prepare udd sessions for uds-o
<barry> that's it for action items
<barry> [TOPIC] LEP bfbip
<MootBot> New Topic:  LEP bfbip
<barry>  * LEP [[https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BuildFromBranchIntoPrimary]]
<barry>  
<barry> this is a hold over from our last meeting.  is there much more to say about it?
<poolie> the main thing with it now is to schedule a lp squad to actually do it
<poolie> the bzr team will help but i think (as does francis) it's going to have enough ongoing work it's better done in house by lp
<poolie> we're hopeful it will be the next feature scheduled and therefore be live by uds-o
<barry> poolie: sounds good.  i guess in that case we don't need to keep i on the udd agenda.  we can just get updates in the normal lp way or celebrate in aob when it lands
<poolie> good idea
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Package importer progress
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Package importer progress
<poolie> we've fixed some more bugs in the importer
<poolie> especially in scheduling
<poolie> and the number of failures has dipped .. a bit, but not dramatically
<barry> [LINK] http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<poolie> we got some bug reports about failures from ubuntu devs, which is a good sign
<slangasek> there seem to be new bugs always popping up that affect importing of precisely those branches I've touched before :-)
<poolie> and they're pulled into our team queues
<poolie> hm
<poolie> any particular packages or bugs people would like to nominate for attention?
<slangasek> gobject-introspection, for me
<james_w> that's the one that's waiting on a new bzr being rolled out to jubany
<james_w> #1 failure currently I think
<poolie> ah, ok
<poolie> [action] poolie to talk to mthaddon about getting new bzrs rolled out faster
<barry> james_w: is that: 80 packages failed with key AssertionError:<module>:main:find_unimported_versions:check
<poolie> i wonder if we can persuade them to deploy from a branch or something
<james_w> no, repository.user_url
<poolie> james_w do you have an opinion about that?
<james_w> not really
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to talk to mthaddon about getting new bzrs rolled out faster
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to talk to mthaddon about getting new bzrs rolled out faster
<poolie> or maybe that's charlie
<james_w> so perhaps not #1, but #1 growing currently I think
 * slangasek nods
<barry> i'll write it up as LOSA
<barry> any other feedback on the package importer?
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Bugs of interest:
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Bugs of interest:
<barry> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<slangasek> I can say that I've been doing a lot of UDD branches over the past month for multiarch, and gobject-introspection was the only out-of-date branch I ran into - great job, guys :)
<barry> slangasek: how did you find out it was out of date?
<slangasek> barry: I'm in the habit of not trusting the branches at this point and always compare with the archive before I begin work :(
<barry> slangasek: yeah.  i see bug 609187 is in the queued column on kanban.  that will help a lot i think
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzr branch ubuntu:foo (a.k.a. lp:ubuntu/foo) should warn when foo is out of date" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/609187
 * slangasek nods
<poolie> slangasek, thanks for that (both the positives and the specific negative)
<poolie> we're all finding the kanban pretty good btw
<poolie> it is encouraging some people (though not yet me ;-) to have smaller in progress queues
<barry> there are an impressive number of bugs in release and needs release.  that's really awesome
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> it's been pretty good
<poolie> now everybody is back from vacation it should be better :)
<poolie> next item?
<barry> any other bugs to discuss?
<barry> if not...
<barry> [TOPIC] aob
<MootBot> New Topic:  aob
<james_w> none from me
<jelmer> I have a question. Now that we've done some FFe's and SRU's I was wondering if there was any guidance on how to do those with UDD?
<poolie> oh, we have four rotation candidates; i'm hoping at least one will proceed and start working from our may sprint
<jelmer> poolie: W00t. That'd be really nice.
<barry> \o/
<barry> jelmer: i've done one and iirc it wasn't much of a different workflow, after using a different url to get the code
<barry> not much of a data point, but i don't remember any udd-specific issues
<jelmer> barry: I guess that means there isn't a particular reason not to use UDD for SRU's at least then; I'll give it a shot next time one comes up.
<slangasek> I was surprised to see a UDD merge request the other week for -proposed
<jelmer> barry: thanks
<slangasek> surprised because it worked, actually :)
<barry> slangasek: yay! :)
<barry> not strictly udd, but: i want to give a shout out to jam.  python finally switched to mercurial, and there have been a huge number of messages on python-dev about it.  jam's messages always have a very high signal to noise ratio, and i really appreciate his expert involvement
<slangasek> barry: how is this supposed to work, in general?  does pushing to a new -proposed branch work yet?
<poolie> should be fun for them too
<poolie> thanks barry
<poolie> barry, prod him to ask you for a 360 review thing
<barry> oh, and it makes me *really* appreciate bzr, but more on that in a blog later :)
<barry> poolie: i will
<barry> slangasek: sadly it was a while ago and i don't remember exactly what i did
<slangasek> ok; just wondering if the one that worked worked only because there'd been a previous SRU for that package, so the branch was pre-populated
<barry> if/when folks do sru via udd, please do update the wiki with your experience
<barry> oh, which reminds me: the udd guide was integrated with the ubuntu packaging guide, so technically the wiki is out of date.  i will take an action item to see if dholbach has published it on the web somewhere and update the wiki documentation to point to the upg as the canonical information
<barry> [ACTION] barry to check with dholbach about publishing of upg with udd docs, and update the udd wiki pages
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to check with dholbach about publishing of upg with udd docs, and update the udd wiki pages
<barry> there was a little impedance mismatch there, but it was mostly a smooth integration, and we can clean things up as we go
<barry> anybody have anything else?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:37.
<barry> thanks everyone!
<james_w> thanks
<slangasek> thanks :)
<poolie> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-24
<ogra_> shmoo
 * ogra_ twiddles thumbs
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<ogra_> GrueMaster, can you poke him ?
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra_> ah :)
<NCommander> Had to retrieve my laptop charger from underneath someone
<ogra_> someone eh ?
<ogra_> who is she ?
<NCommander> ogra_: random bodies on the couch
<ogra_> oh, more than one
<GrueMaster> I had a bunch of rain soaked campers show up late last night.
<rsalveti> hahah
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110324
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110324
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to determine if mono still crashes on tegra
<janimo> hi
 * NCommander pokes ogra_ 
<ogra_> NCommander, c/o
<NCommander> ogra_: k
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<rsalveti> just moved one WI from edid bp to done, the others will wait until beginning of next week, then if not yet done will move it
<rsalveti> had to spend more time than I wanted with the pvr drivers
 * ogra_ wishes ff4 wouldnt lock his machine all the time
<NCommander> anything else or can I move one?
<GrueMaster> I will have my task completed next week.
 * ogra_ didnt have a chance to look at the tracker yet
<ogra_> one sec
<ogra_> ff4 is really unhappy on arm wrt RAM usage
<ogra_> move, looks fine
<ogra_> (sorry for delaying)
<rsalveti> NCommander: move! :-)
 * ogra_ will kill the serial tty stuff, wont go into upstart, is better in jasper now
<GrueMaster> He's having network issues.
<ogra_> and the kbd bug will be postponed
<NCommander> [[to[topic] Unity 2D Status
<ogra_> GrueMaster, tell the guys on the sofa to move off the network cable then
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra_> we have 3.8 since yesterday :)
<ogra_> closed over 60 bugs
<rsalveti> \o/
<ogra_> please test as soon as netbook builds again
 * ogra_ really likes it
<NCommander> ogra_: can we have changelog messages that are useful to glance at without referencing a lot of LP bugs? kthxbye :-P
<GrueMaster> I'll do a dist-upgrade today.
<ogra_> NCommander, nope
<ogra_> not if i have to manually add >60 entries myself :P
<GrueMaster> ogra_: I few of the others here in pdx were also commenting on that.
<GrueMaster> Apparently there is a tool to do this.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i'm trying to teach upstream to use dch but they arent there yet
<ogra_> the list of bugs was necessary for the lp janitor
<ogra_> else i would have left that one out too like i usually do
<ogra_> anyway, move
<NCommander> ogra_: your the maintainer, when I look at changelogs, I expect sometihng useful :-P.
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
<ogra_> NCommander, look at the treee then
<rsalveti> Ubuntu-2.6.38-1206.8 just uploaded for omap4
<ogra_> will need a rebuild though
<rsalveti> this kernel should have better support for wifi, full hdmi support and SGX compatible
<ogra_> new gcc was uploaded too ... right afterwards
<NCommander> ow
<rsalveti> ogra_: after this kernel hits the archive you can remove the cmd arguments for dvi
<ogra_> rsalveti, yep, on my list
<ogra_> the question is if images are buildable again *before* the new kernel is there :)
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra_> i doubt the kernel has settled before saturday
<rsalveti> probably
<rsalveti> I also updated the SGX kernel module to be compatible with 38, so it should just work now if you install the sgx packages from tiomap-dev/trunk ppa
<ogra_> btw, given that ppisati does SRUs and the like, he should probably be added to this topic too :)
<rsalveti> after it's properly tested I'll move the sgx stuff to the release ppa, and we can start testing the ti icon again
<ogra_> in case he has to report anything
<rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, makes sense
<ogra_> and to give GrueMaster a chance to whine at him for having to test all these old releases ;)
<rsalveti> NCommander: can you also add ppisati to the topic?
<janimo> rsalveti, no sgx drivers into restricted/multiverse this cycle?
<GrueMaster> I get plenty of whineing in on #ubuntu-kernel.  :P
<rsalveti> janimo: not yet, still waiting some more updates from TI (and IMG)
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<rsalveti> janimo: so not to a point that we'll get just bugixing
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> damn lag
<lag> NCommander: Grrrrrrrrrr
<GrueMaster> heh
<ogra_> he is in linaro now
<GrueMaster> That makes it worse.  :P
<NCommander> lag: not you, referring to latency
<NCommander> anyway
<ogra_> that linaro has the lag ?
<NCommander> ANYWAY
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> is mono fixed ?
<NCommander> I stumbled upon a workaround for mono last night that allows us to disable SMP for it
<rsalveti> ogra_: 2.6.38-1206.7 finished building already, but don't know yet if it's in the archive
<NCommander> I need to code a patch to make this the default behavior on ARM, but f-spot and banshee appear to work properly
<janimo> NCommander, you mean mono to only use one core?
<GrueMaster> I tested this on panda last night.  It does work, and better than panda running nosmp.
<janimo> good news!
<ogra_> awesome !
<NCommander> janimo: yeah, which sidesteps the whole Mono on ARM dies horribly on SMP machines
<NCommander> I poked upstream .
<janimo> it's a good workaround I guess
<rsalveti> awesome
<NCommander> but they haven't responded with a good way to debug the ARM specific code for SMP safety, and nothing obvious jumps up
<janimo> rsalveti, but the SGX stuff is planned for inclusion into the archives just blocked right now?
<janimo> NCommander, and the issue is present on 2.10 as well?
<NCommander> Question: since we have *gasp* a working mono*/gasp*, are we going to change our seeds to now resemble the desktop versions of Ubuntu
<janimo> once the mono package is updated I'd say yes
<ogra_> we will drop RB and pull in banshee
<NCommander> janimo: yes still screwing around with it, but I'm seeing if theres a way to run mono under valgrind which one would hope find the damn SMP headache
<ogra_> not sure what other mono apps are in desktop
<GrueMaster> f-spot
<NCommander> ogra_: f-spot + tomboy
<ogra_> huh ?
<ogra_> f-spot is gone since maverick
<rsalveti> janimo: I'll try to request the inclusion, once we get what will be the final version for this cycle, but the dev is still going heavily atm
<GrueMaster> I thought they brought it back.
 * GrueMaster checks.
<ogra_> i dont think so
<ogra_> but i'll compare the seeds if i have to make the changes
<ogra_> as soon as i get a go for it
<NCommander> I'll cook up something today or tomorrow and upload
<ogra_> no hurry
<rsalveti> banshee should be our best test case
<ogra_> qeueu is    so full it will take days anyway
<NCommander> rsalveti: unfortnately without workign sound on Panda it is a tad difficult to know if it works fully
<ogra_> NCommander, though dont forget we're frozen
<rsalveti> as f-spot is out for shotwell
<ogra_> beta-1 freeze kicks in later today
<NCommander> ogra_: I'll poke the release team
<GrueMaster> Just checked x86 manifest.  Still shotwell.
<janimo> NCommander, aren't there some pulse audio trick to redirect sound to another machine?
<ogra_> not sure they want to take the risk for other arches
 * NCommander whimpers in fear at janimo's suggestion
<NCommander> ogra_: its going to be a patch wrapped with #ifdef ARM
<ogra_> great
<ogra_> -that should work
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> moving on
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> headless is perfect !
<ogra_> all our preinstalled images are fully preseedable on cmdline now
<NCommander> ogra_: cool, I didn't know you found a way to run without your head!
 * NCommander ducks
<ogra_> (will add preseed file support in OO)
<ogra_> NCommander, google for stoertebeker ;) we northern gearmans are famouos for running without head
<NCommander> ogra_: I won't know :-)
<ogra_> i havent looked at netbook for about two weeks, GrueMaster do you know what happened to the gnome-settings-daemon issue ?
<ogra_> i havent seen a bug for it and didnt file one either
<GrueMaster> It was still there on the 0321 image, but updating fixed it.
<ogra_> but if it still happens i'd call that a beta blocker
<ogra_> oh, and our omap3 builder seems to be broken
<ogra_> i pinged lamont in -release earlier today and also generally pinged in #is but didnt get any answers yet
<GrueMaster> Not sure if an update actually fixed it or something shook loose.  May still happen on fresh image.
<ogra_> yeah, we need to check that asap
<GrueMaster> Hard w/o a fresh image.
<ogra_> but with the archive as it is now itr will still take a while until we can build again
<ogra_> GrueMaster, dont tell me
<ogra_> working on headless was real fun :)
<ogra_> nothing holds up rebuilds
<ogra_> anyway, NCommander move
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Testing SRU kernels for dove seems to be the highlight of the week.  3 kernels at one time in proposed.
<ogra_> fun
<GrueMaster> Made sure the latest kernel had all of the previous fixes prior to testing.
<GrueMaster> Also started looking into some other more obscure bugs that are still open.
<GrueMaster> Installed unity-2d-latest on maverick from daily ppa.  Works much better so far.
<ogra_> natty would be more intresting though
<GrueMaster> I wish they would add natty to their daily builds.
<ogra_> since -2d uses bits and pieces that are only in natty
<GrueMaster> They keep telling me to retest with daily on maverick when I run into bugs.
<GrueMaster> They only build natty daily for x86 I think.
<ogra_> well, it doesnt help much to test on maverick if the bug is in interaction with other    desktop pieces
<GrueMaster> Don't tell me.
<ogra_> indicator, bamf and the dash protocol are completely different
<ogra_> but we have the latest in natty now
<GrueMaster> So, should I pull my own bzr tree and do my own daily builds?  I really don't have the resources to do that.
<ogra_> i also expect development to slow down a bit with the freezes getting colder
<NCommander> anything else or can I move on?
<GrueMaster> move
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> everyone tell Amaranth to hurry up with compiz fixing for GLES :)
<Amaranth> If I could get a working GLES stack somewhere :/
<ogra_> yeah, blame mesa :P
<ogra_> Amaranth, as discussed above, rsalveti has new drivers that will work with the new kernel :)
<ogra_> NCommander, time to close ?
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:42.
<kees> hola
<kees> oh, dst
<kees> see you in an hour
<Keybuk> morning
 * czajkowski hugs Keybuk 
<Keybuk> hmm, either nobody is here for the TB meeting
<Keybuk> or I'm an hour early due to DST
<Riddell> 17:00 < kees> oh, dst 17:00 < kees> see you in an hour
<Keybuk> gnargh
 * Keybuk updates his calendar
<mdz> Keybuk, I added the outstanding items from my TB mailbox onto the agenda
<Keybuk> mdz: thanks
<mdz> I will need to leave at :30 unfortunately
<Keybuk> ok, I see you've put your items on first
<cjwatson> I will likely need to keep it shortish too
<cjwatson> are we expecting sabdfl?
<cjwatson> kees: here?
 * pitti is here, FTR
 * Keybuk is trying to find the mootbot documentation
<pitti> Keybuk: hash startmeeting
<mdz> cjwatson, according to the calendar, no
<pitti> it'll print the commands
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<Keybuk> good morning everyone ;-)
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<pitti> hey Scott, howdy
<Keybuk> thanks mdz for marking his items as done, likewise cjwatson
<Keybuk> pitti: there's three items assigned to you, can you update us on those?
<mdz> pitti's first one is done
<Keybuk>  * pitti to kick off brainstorm review
<Keybuk>  * pitti to respond to uTouch package set request
<Keybuk>  * pitti to add PPU rights for Serge Hallyn per ML
<pitti> all done
<Keybuk> great, thanks pitti
<pitti> brainstorm> 9/10 sent
<pitti> still waiting for Andy's reply about the kernel issue
<cjwatson> what's the tenth?
<pitti> but I'm on it
<cjwatson> ah
<cjwatson> Andy is off getting married
<cjwatson> I wouldn't recommend waiting for him
<Keybuk> cjwatson: that woman must be a saint ...
<pitti> and kudos for cjwatson for getting in the first response and fix
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks
<pitti> (wasn't in the holiday cal)
<cjwatson> ogasawara is filling in
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Proposal to install ubuntu-restricted-* by default (mdz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Proposal to install ubuntu-restricted-* by default (mdz)
<Keybuk> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/723831
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/723831
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 723831 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer â The option to 'install third-party software' when installing Ubuntu should be selected by default (aka "make Youtube work")" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<mdz> Jono passed this to technical-board@ about 2 weeks ago
<mdz> it also came up in my Q&A last week
<mdz> the short version is that it proposes ticking the "install third-party software" box by default
<pitti> ah, I think this already came up once
<cjwatson> personally, I'm very unhappy about crossing this line by default, even though I understand the reasons offered by the design team
<Keybuk> is this third-party software licenced under open source licences?
<ScottK> No.
<Keybuk> or is this software non-free
<mdz> Keybuk, nope, or we would almost certainly be installing it by default :-)
<pitti> TBH I'm not too happy about it, as now it would take an informed decision to get free software (what we actually advertise on the cover)
<mdz> I think there's no meaningful difference between installing it by default, and ticking a box which downloads and installs it by default
<Keybuk> then the long version is that it proposes changes our stance from "we only use proprietary code if it's needed to get the hardware working" to "we install every bit of proprietary code we can to make farmville work"
<pitti> mdz: agreed
<Keybuk> mdz: agreed
<pitti> I do agree to installing wlan drivers, but this is too much for me
<Keybuk> perhaps legally there is a meaningful difference, but in terms of ourselves, there isn't
<mdz> I assume that somewhere on our website there is still a page which says that Ubuntu is free software
<mdz> and we make a deliberate exception for hardware compatibility only
<mdz> and we limit that pretty strictly
<m4n1sh> One more question: As bdrung said, can it be split this into two parts - gstreamer-* and non-free packages and then discuss
<mdz> Keybuk, yes, I think the legal spectre in that bug is a distraction
<pitti> http://www.ubuntu.com/project -> "The Ubuntu Promise
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/project -> "The Ubuntu Promise
<pitti> Ubuntu is free."
<mdz> pitti, that's ambiguous though; there is a page which talks about licensing specifically, and the exception
<cjwatson> I share bdrung's opinion to some extent; patent-problematic packages may carry risk (which Canonical would have to evaluate, I expect), but I don't regard them as having the same moral problems
<mdz> I can't find anything since it was last reorganized...
<pitti> yeah, currently searching for that; but I've seen it as well
<highvoltage> mdz: http://www.canonical.com/about-ubuntu says that "Ubuntu is and always will be absolutely free."
<mdz> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/licensing
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/licensing
<highvoltage> mdz: *absolutely*
<Keybuk> cjwatson: right, but we've always said that patent-problematic packages *can* go into main or universe
<highvoltage> mdz: I'm just saying :)
 * kees here now, catching up
<Keybuk> and we've never shirked from installing them by default either (cf. ubuntu's font rendering)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: yes; although there is a standing TB decision from years ago saying that libavcodec may not go on CDs
<mdz> highvoltage, that "free" is at best ambiguous; i think the page I just linked to clarifies this particular point well though
<cjwatson> from 2007-01-02
<Keybuk> cjwatson: was there, I thought there was a standing "we need someone legal to make a decision"
<mdz> the title of the bug ("make youtube work") implies that it's the non-free bits which are considered important
<cjwatson> Keybuk: well, we can go back and analyse the logs some other time
<Keybuk> cjwatson: indeed
<Keybuk> I think we have a pretty good consensus here, would there be any objection to voting on the issue at hand?
<pitti> mdz: right, last paragraph on that page is what I remembered
<cjwatson> for me, this is a line in the sand - I don't really see a point in taking a stance on free software if we're going to give up when it's hard
<pitti> and we already have the codec installer for totem, and plugin installer for flash
<pitti> which can convey the problem in more words than this single and already overloaded tick box in the installer
<mdz> if the question here is whether we consider the Flash plugin to be as vital to the user experience as, say, the ability to use a graphics card or a wifi adapter, then my position is "no"
<cjwatson> I'm more than happy to continue a trend of making it easier for people who have a need
<pitti> mdz: agreed; and more to it, we do offer free alternatives in the plugin installer, such as gnash
<kees> yeah, I don't want non-free stuff in by default. that's totally against the principles of ubuntu.
<Keybuk> [VOTE] Proposal to install ubuntu-restricted-* by default
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Proposal to install ubuntu-restricted-* by default.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from pitti. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<cjwatson> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cjwatson. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<kees> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from kees. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<mdz> pitti, joeyh pointed out on identi.ca:
<mdz> "@mdz regarding making youtube "just work", the 90% solution (but 100% free) is to ship browsers with the html5 beta cookie enabled"
<Keybuk> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Keybuk. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<mdz> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from mdz. 0 for, 5 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -5
<pitti> "A great day for freedom"
<cjwatson> yes, making youtube just work is "wait until html5 is there"
<Keybuk> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 5 against. 0 abstained. Total: -5
<popey> Thank you.
<mdz> I feel like we're very close on web video
<highvoltage> popey: +1 :)
<ScottK> Nicely done.
<mdz> and to lessen our resolve now would be counter-productive
<Keybuk> [AGREED] Ubuntu will not enable ubuntu-restricted-* installation by default, and will retain its stance
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Ubuntu will not enable ubuntu-restricted-* installation by default, and will retain its stance
<mdz> someone will need to follow up on the bug
<Keybuk> who feels they could be eloquent enough to do that?
<pitti> I have no problem responding there
<mdz> thanks pitti
<Keybuk> ok
<pitti> it's basically closing as wontfix with a friendnly, but clear summary of the discussion here
<Keybuk> [ACTION] pitti to follow-up to bug 723813
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to follow-up to bug 723813
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 723813 could not be found
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 723813 could not be found
<pitti> did it go away that quickly? :-)
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] ubuntu-devel moderation (mdz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-devel moderation (mdz)
<mdz> so this is anecdata
<Keybuk> "I'm concerned about moderation delays discouraging upstream/third-party participation"
<mdz> but I wanted to bring it up and ask if anyone else had seen a problem
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/740065
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/740065
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 740065 in linux (Ubuntu) "TCP Cookie Transactions (RFC-6013) API updates" [Undecided,New]
<mdz> I notice this because I tend to be slow catching up on ubuntu-devel
 * Keybuk must admit, I unsubscribed from ubuntu-devel years ago
<pitti> I certainly noticed that maybe two weeks ago I suddenly got a whole load of -devel@ mail dating back to January or so
<mdz> and so as I'm working through my mailbox, I notice messages which are old and received no response
<pitti> can we address this by giving more people access to moderation?
<mdz> and sometimes they haven't actually been sent that long ago
<pitti> I usually run listadmin two or three times a week, for -de@, -devel-announce@, techboard
<mdz> pitti, maybe, to a degree
<mdz> I wondered if cases like this should be handled by the patch pilot?
<pitti> and I guess other people do as well
<mdz> this is someone who is not directly participating in Ubuntu but has a patch they want to submit
<pitti> do we only have one moderator for this ATM?
<cjwatson> I'm sorry - speaking of freedom, nouveau ate itself
<cjwatson> moderators for ubuntu-devel are currently me, Evan Dandrea, and Sarah Hobbs (inactive)
<cjwatson> I think the appropriate resolution to this question is to add at least two or three more
<pitti> I agree
<cjwatson> (because that's more sensible than me just being guilty about not running listadmin often enough)
<mdz> is there even a correspondence between "people listed as moderators" and "people who have the list moderation password"?
<cjwatson> I believe so ...
<mdz> from a governance perspective, I would be quite happy for any Ubuntu developer (who can post unmoderated to the list) to also approve other people's messages
<mdz> I run listadmin but very irregularly
<cjwatson> should I take an action to find several more people I trust, then, or do you want something a bit more inclusive than that?
<mdz> if there is someplace where we can just publish the password where only developers will be able to see it, that seems like a good idea
<kees> private bzr tree?
<mdz> I also think that the patch pilot should scan the mailing list and pick up things like this
<mdz> kees, interesting idea
<pitti> well, we should at least ensure that moderators know the list policy
<cjwatson> there's a wiki page for that
<mdz> yp
<mdz> yep
<cjwatson> UbuntuDevelModeration
<mdz> is it worth considering a reminder system or something like that, so that someone notices if the list hasn't been moderated for too long?
<Keybuk> mdz: I'm pretty sure mailman sends those reminders ;-)
<mdz> Keybuk, iirc it sends them *every day* so people filter them out
<Keybuk> and I'm pretty sure people do exactly what they do with all such reminders, and /dev/null them
<mdz> once a week would probably be sensible
<kees> well, that's part of the disconnect between people listed as moderators and those with the password
<Keybuk> mdz: it might be configurable, we should ask barry
<mdz> and only if the list hadn't been moderated for >7 days
<mdz> kees, also right
<pitti> that would make them more useful indeed
<cjwatson> moderators feel some responsibility (maybe not enough but ...)
<pitti> I just grew a habit of running listadmin after my initial morning email catchup
<cjwatson> so I don't know that I think we should just spread it far and wide, because then everyone will think that somebody else will do it
<mdz> anyway, if Colin is willing to take an action to follow up on this, I trust his judgement for how to resolve the problem
<cjwatson> I'd rather have a team large enough to keep up but small enough to care
<mdz> we don't need to debate it here
 * mdz de-bikesheds
<Keybuk> ok,
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to stoke the fires of the ubuntu-devel moderation team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to stoke the fires of the ubuntu-devel moderation team
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ok? :)
<cjwatson> aye-aye
<mdz> thanks cjwatson
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Ownership of package sets\
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ownership of package sets\
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000744.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-March/000744.html
<cjwatson> is that the mail from geser?
<Keybuk> is Michael Bienia here?
<cjwatson> (sorry, am avoiding X atm so that nouveau doesn't crash again)
<mdz> cjwatson, yes
<cjwatson> we resolved that on #ubuntu-motu, and geser filed a Launchpad bug; wgrant is going to sort it out
<cjwatson> (and fix the data)
<mdz> I added it to the agenda on his behalf, since I saw no reply on the ML
<Keybuk> ok, nice and easy then
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> LP wrongly set the new owner to the series owner rather than the previous package set owner
<Keybuk> mdz scanned the ML archive for us prior to the meeting, thanks
<Keybuk> argh
 * Keybuk hates click-to-focus
<Keybuk> I always ^W the wrong thing
<Keybuk> in terms of community bugs,
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/451390
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/451390
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 451390 in Launchpad itself "limited upload rights no longer give series nomination accept/decline rights" [Critical,Triaged]
<mdz> I've never forgiven GNOME for making ^W a shortcut for close
<mdz> this had just been escalated the last time we looked at it
<mdz> now it's importance=critical
<mdz> but I don't see any further activity
<Islington> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/723831  has this been discussed already?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 723831 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer â The option to 'install third-party software' when installing Ubuntu should be selected by default (aka "make Youtube work")" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<mdz> Islington, yes, https://identi.ca/notice/68055337
<Islington> thanks
<Keybuk> mdz: should there be any further activity?
<mdz> Keybuk, yes, the bug should get fixed. :-) I don't think the TB needs to nag anyone just yet though
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/273921
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/273921
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 273921 in ubuntu-website-content "old http://www.no-name-yet.com/patches/ URLs broken" [Low,In progress]
<mdz> the only thing this is blocking for the TB is the long-standing drivers bug
<Keybuk> has a follow-up saying it has been fixed
<Keybuk> and a test here suggests it has been
<mdz> I think it's also obsoleted by DEX
<Keybuk> ah, it's people.ubuntu.com/patches that works
<Keybuk> not n-n-y.com
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> none of these seem to need follow-up yet
<Keybuk> AOB?
<mdz> yes, and the patches are all indexed at http://dex.alioth.debian.org/ubuntu/ancient-patches/status/
<mdz> Keybuk, one brief one
<mdz> no decision to make
<Keybuk> mdz: go
<mdz> but I am curious if folks have any feedback on DEX or suggestions for what its next project should be
<Keybuk> I haven't seen DEX until you pasted that link
<mdz> http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2011/03/16/dex-debian-and-its-derivatives-getting-things-done-together/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2011/03/16/dex-debian-and-its-derivatives-getting-things-done-together/
<ScottK> mdz: You might look at QA maintained packages in Debian with an Ubuntu diff and see how much if it can be just uploaded in Debian.
<pitti> mdz: what I'd really like to see is that more Ubuntu devs become committers for the debian package groups
<pitti> e. g. pkg-gnome
<mdz> http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110318
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110318
<mdz> ScottK, I like that idea, thanks
<pitti> this already works well for pkg-utopia (well, it's really just me, and a magnitude smaller than pkg-gnome), but for -gnome and -python it would certainly make stuff a lot more efficient
<mdz> pitti, that's a good thing to work on, but hard to make actionable for DEX
<pitti> I just don't have a good idea how to convey that in DEX, right
<mdz> I'm looking for concrete projects which can be "finished"
<ScottK> pitti: The Python teams are very open to Ubuntu people.
<ScottK> pitti: I even have admin access to the projects to add them.
<pitti> ScottK: splendid
<mdz> http://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2011/03/msg00024.html explains current status and the other ideas under consideration
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2011/03/msg00024.html explains current status and the other ideas under consideration
<mdz> that's all
<Keybuk> ok, whose next on rotation for chair?
<mdz> alphabetically I think it's me
<Keybuk> mdz: are you able to do it?
<mdz> calendar looks clear
 * ScottK notes that wasn't actually a commitment.
<mdz> Keybuk, yes
<Keybuk> ok, great
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:35.
<Keybuk> thanks all
<mdz> ScottK, I don't think he was questioning my ability or commitment, just my availability :-)
<ScottK> :-)
<pitti> thannks everyone
<mdz> thanks Keybuk
<kees> thanks Keybuk!
<Keybuk> hmm
<Keybuk> I can't edit the wiki
<Keybuk> I just get INTERNAL SERVER ERROR
<highvoltage> just press f5 and it will tell you that you already saved the page
<pitti> Keybuk: it'll still save your changes, though
<highvoltage> or remove preview from the url and hit enter
<Keybuk> pitti: no, I get ISE when trying to *login* to the wiki
<pitti> oh
<pitti> so I better not log out now?
<pitti> (not that I ever did in the last 5 years or so..)
<pitti> mdz, Keybuk: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/723831/comments/19
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 723831 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer â The option to 'install third-party software' when installing Ubuntu should be selected by default (aka "make Youtube work")" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<cjwatson> pitti: thanks
<pitti> I guess we should close the ubiquity task as "wontfix" as well?
<charlie-tca>  
<mr_pouit> o hai
<charlie-tca> Hello
<charlie-tca> I need to make sure TB is finished with their meeting
<cjwatson> charlie-tca: we are
<charlie-tca> Thank you, cjohnston
<charlie-tca> sorry, cjohnston
<charlie-tca> thank you, cjwatson
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:01. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> This is the weekly Xubuntu Community Meeting.
<charlie-tca> The full agenda for today's meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
<charlie-tca> ask knome to do some drafts with a grey background and a black background
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-black.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-black.png
<pleia2> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-lightgrey.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-lightgrey.png
<charlie-tca> Great!
<pleia2> to compare, this is the blue one: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website1104b.png (imagine the other stuff in the body too :))
 * pleia2 prefers the blue
<charlie-tca> I like the light grey! It is bright and conveys a light feeling
<charlie-tca> the blue is good too. That has served us very well, and can stay as the default.
<charlie-tca> I find the black dark and dreary, though
<pleia2> yeah, same
<charlie-tca> Any other comments on this?
<beardygnome> hi everyone
<charlie-tca> I fear the light grey might become an eyesore, with the background and text and other stuff. It can easily become too bright.
<charlie-tca> Hello, beardygnome
<charlie-tca> We are looking at a couple of website drafts, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-black.png
<charlie-tca> and http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website/draft-lightgrey.png
<charlie-tca> compared to http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/website1104b.png
<charlie-tca> which is the current one
<charlie-tca> Any comment?
<charlie-tca> I can close the task now, at least. :-)
<pleia2> :)
<beardygnome> i prefer the blue one
<beardygnome> followed by the black one
<pleia2> knome prefers the blue as well
<beardygnome> i agree with charlie-tca on the grey
<charlie-tca> Let's go with the blue then
<pleia2> sounds good :)
<charlie-tca> thanks for working on this, pleia2
 * micahg likes the grey one, then blue
<mr_pouit> +1 for the blue, too
<micahg> maybe a lighter blue?  it seems loud
<charlie-tca> No, because it will do the same thing as the grey if it is lighter. It will make the eyes hurt after a little bit
<beardygnome> i think it fits well with the rest of the page
<beardygnome> it's the same blue as in the logo, right?
<charlie-tca> I think so.
<pleia2> yeah
<charlie-tca> Blue is very good, and it keeps the colors together. It makes us seem like we know what we are doing
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team Updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team Updates
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your turn?
<mr_pouit> okay
<mr_pouit> * Included the new default wallpaper (still missing the full-sized second one though)
<charlie-tca> I knew you did something, my computer went nuts this week!
<mr_pouit> * Fixed another bug in garcon, related to monitoring  (Xfce #7423).
<mr_pouit> aha
<mr_pouit> * Included a patch from upstream git to fix a workspace size issue in xfce4-display-settings.
<mr_pouit> * Restored the default blue for the alternative installer, instead of the aubergine that actually looks pink in all terms I tested (only gnome-terminal is fine).
<charlie-tca> +1 on pink
<mr_pouit> * Imported gmb 1.1.7 + shimmer patches.
<mr_pouit> and I think micahg has uploaded xfce4-mixer 4.8.0 (but I didn't have time to check)
<mr_pouit> that's all I guess
<charlie-tca> WOW!
<charlie-tca> you been busy again.
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much for all your efforts!
<charlie-tca> Any questions for development?
<micahg> I'll be uploading shortly
<mr_pouit> :)
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
<charlie-tca> The only thing triage and testing did is try to get things tested this week
<charlie-tca> 64bit alternate image is not available for Ubuntu and Xubuntu right now. I don't why.
<charlie-tca> We have the beta1 release next week. Any testing is really appreciated. We would like to know the images look good this week, if possilbe
<charlie-tca> if possible, too
<charlie-tca> Any status on the slideshow?
<mr_pouit> merged a few days ago afaik
<mr_pouit> (but I don't think they have been uploaded yet)
<charlie-tca> Great! I guess I should look closer at the slides, then
<charlie-tca> We will have it in the beta?
<mr_pouit> I hope :p
<charlie-tca> Thanks.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
<charlie-tca> any other updates here?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: your turn
<charlie-tca> hm, I will take that as a no, then.
<pleia2> no updates, still waiting on canonical :(
<charlie-tca> I think the website is looking real good, and the fact that it now sends the news items to the Planet is a real bonus!
<pleia2> yeah
<charlie-tca> Thanks for your hard work on that, pleia2 and knome!
<pleia2> I might give the ticket a nudge this week to see where they are
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
<charlie-tca> Beta1 release of Natty is due next Thursday
<charlie-tca> UserInterfaceFreeze and BetaFreeze is today at 23:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal, to be released as Xubuntu 11.04, is due out on April 29
<charlie-tca> Anything else to announce?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for their participation in Xubuntu! It is great to have people getting involved.
<charlie-tca> I think we can skip next week, and have the next meeting in two weeks, on April 7 at 19:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> Any one have anything they want to bring up?
<mr_pouit> Agreed, I don't think we'll have much to report because of the beta freeze.
<beardygnome> bugs / issues to the ml then?
<charlie-tca> Please help with testing next week if you can
<charlie-tca> yes, beardygnome, please do send them to the ml
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: testing = using the beta, right?
<charlie-tca> or come on in to #xubuntu-devel and ask us :-)
<pleia2> charlie-tca: how are the testing docs looking?
<charlie-tca> testing next week is the ISO testing for the release, per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
<charlie-tca> but, yes, we want you to use the beta, if you can, also
<charlie-tca> pleia2: smack me
<charlie-tca> I will go look at them today
<pleia2> thank you :)
<mr_pouit> What about xubuntu-docs?
<charlie-tca> My trackball broke, and I am down to a mouse that hurts my hands
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: as far as I know, they are ready to go
<pleia2> at our Jam we'll be focusing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short with LiveCD (I doubt many will be able to do installs)
<charlie-tca> I will hunt down Daniel to verify it.
<pleia2> so as long as all that's up to date, we're good
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] check on 11.04 docs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  check on 11.04 docs
<charlie-tca> That page works well, pleia2
<pleia2> and general "click around and break things" testing :)
<pleia2> ok great
<charlie-tca> If we can get the apps checked out, and see if the panels, etc work, that would be terrific
<pleia2> sounds good
<beardygnome> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, beardygnome
<beardygnome> where has the icon box panel applet gone?
<charlie-tca> what is it?
<charlie-tca> It may not be a Xfce 4.8 compatible plugin
<beardygnome> it's like the task list (10.10) / window buttons (11.04) applet, but only shows the window icon rather than the name etc
<mr_pouit> or it may have been merged with another plugin or simply dropped.
<Sysi> window buttons can be set to work like it
<beardygnome> they can? excellent
<beardygnome> very hand for a netbook screen
<beardygnome> especially as the windown buttons are at the top now
<charlie-tca> yeah, a few changes
<beardygnome> Sysi: is that in the applet's preferneces?
<charlie-tca> For confusion, run two systems, on with 10.04 defaults and one with natty side by side monitors
<Sysi> beardygnome: yup
<beardygnome> i'll check that out later
<beardygnome> thanks
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] Review Testing wiki pages - charlie-tca
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Review Testing wiki pages - charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Any thing else ?
<charlie-tca> If not, we will see everyone in TWO weeks this time.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for showing up!
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:38.
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: I had a question for you about involvement with the xubuntu project
<charlie-tca> Well, by all means, ask
<beardygnome> it seems to me that a lot of the people who show up to these meetings are doing very practical things to drive xubuntu forward
<beardygnome> like artwork, packaging etc
<charlie-tca> yes, they are
<beardygnome> whereas i'm just showing up here, voting and generally using xubuntu
<charlie-tca> and telling us where we broke things, and reviewing docs :-)
<beardygnome> so what i'm wondering is what's the path from where i am to where, for example, you are?
<Sysi> volunteer to tasks you are able to do, larn more and do different tasks
<charlie-tca> showing up in #xubuntu-devel, helping out where you are able to, stepping in and fixing things like the wiki pages for us.
 * charlie-tca had to think of the right way to say all that ;-)
<beardygnome> so #xubuntu-devel is where the tasks that need doing are discussed and allocated?
<charlie-tca> they are discussed. We seldom allocate tasks to specific people if they don't step up first.
<Sysi> mailing lists also?
<beardygnome> that's what i meant
<charlie-tca> yes, that would be right, then.
<beardygnome> i'm on the ml but there doesn't seem to be that much activity on there at the moment
<charlie-tca> We just throw the tasks out there, like, "We need to update the slideshow"
<charlie-tca> We also have some discussions, but generally it is pretty quiet in -devel for us
<charlie-tca> but that is the place where things do happen
<beardygnome> i guess the big tasks are packaging, documentation and marketing?
<charlie-tca> testing and bugs, too.
<charlie-tca> without testing, the final product kind of stinks
<charlie-tca> I started out just testing the images daily and coming in to #xubuntu-devel to tell what they did that day
<beardygnome> so generally you're waiting for people to step up and say "i'll do that", rather than having people whose "job" it is to do them?
<charlie-tca> exactly. It is pretty difficult to assign jobs, when people are volunteers and not always available.
<beardygnome> well you're doing a good job, as things seem to be running pretty smoithly from my point of view
<beardygnome> *smoothly
<charlie-tca> If someone is testing on a continuous basis, we will ask them to take the testing lead position.
<charlie-tca> but to tell someone they have to test daily is kind of difficult
<Sysi> http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ is this xubuntu- or doc team's responsibility area?
<beardygnome> what does testing lead involve, other than the testing?
<charlie-tca> never heard of it
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: keeping up the testing pages at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> filing bugs for the things that are broken
<charlie-tca> Sysi: I don't even know where that comes from...
<beardygnome> thanks
<charlie-tca> Does all that make any sense?
<beardygnome> as a newbie to this, i didn't want to jump in and offer to do loads of stuff as i wasn't sure if that was the right way to go about things
<beardygnome> plus, i've been crazy busy at work recently
<Sysi> charlie-tca: doc.ubuntu com seems to be leading to ubuntu doc team
<charlie-tca> Well, having you go through those docs before was great! That really did help us.
<charlie-tca> Sysi: I will ask Daniel then, maybe he knows, or I can track down j1mc about it.
<beardygnome> glad to be of service :-)
<Sysi> http://doc.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/ln-id303536.html
<charlie-tca> The help we get is why I try to let everyone participate in these meetings.
<beardygnome> i'll try to drop in to #xubuntu-devel every few days and see if there's anything i can help out with
<charlie-tca> Sysi: Then we should talk with Book_Em_Dano about that too, shouldn't we?
<Sysi> related to this, as regular irc helper, would i need to join xubuntu-team?
<charlie-tca> Thanks, beardygnome
<beardygnome> i'm a bit wary of offering to do stuff in case i need loads of help with it or can't get it done for some reason
<beardygnome> and people wish they'd done it themselves
<Unit193> If I know how, I would help
<charlie-tca> I told the the whole team "I am just a user" for over year, helping where I could
<charlie-tca> Unit193: Do you know how to review and edit the wiki?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I have never done it
<beardygnome> i don't know how to do that
<charlie-tca> You could just  open every application and see if it works.
<charlie-tca> If you can do an install once a week or so, that would help.
<Unit193> Also check for broken links and report them?
<charlie-tca> Even in VirtualBox, it gives us more than one person saying something is wrong
<charlie-tca> yes, Unit193
<charlie-tca> we need to find those
<charlie-tca> Read through the help for each application, and see if it makes sense or even exists.
<charlie-tca> If you use a language other then English, is help available in that language? Do the menus work?
<charlie-tca> When looking at wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu, does the page make sense, or is it outdated for natty?
<beardygnome> charlie-tca: how do we edit the wiki if it is wrong?
<charlie-tca> click the edit button on the page and make the corrections. Every change is verified, and can be changed back if need be.
<beardygnome> thanks for the help charlie-tca
<Unit193> beardygnome: Would this help? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnEditing
<charlie-tca> I am subscribed to every page having to with Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> so, I see every change that is made to those pages
<beardygnome> thanks Unit193
<charlie-tca> If it bothers you to edit it, just let us know on the mailing list what is wrong, and we will get it fixed.
<beardygnome> got to leave now, but will try to drop in to the devel room later.  are most of you on european or us time?
<charlie-tca> both
<charlie-tca> half of us are USA and half are Europe
<beardygnome> so there should be someone around most times then
<beardygnome> see you later
<Thermi> gn8
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-25
 * marjo waves
<zul> hi
 * skaet waves
<skaet> hi all
<pitti> o/
<cjwatson> hi
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> dear wiki, stop 500ing when I'm trying to read you
<skaet> [Topic] Natty overview - skaet_
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-03-25
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty overview - skaet_
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-03-25
<skaet> .
<skaet> User Interface Freeze and Beta Freeze came into effect March 24th (at 2300 UTC ), so now on the focus is on getting the Beta images ready for the wider audiences!
<skaet> .
<skaet> Awesome progress on closing out some of those high/critical bugs over the last week!   By my count - over 65 of the bugs we were monitoring for the release moved into a resolved state.   :)  Thanks to all involved!!
<skaet> .
<skaet> As of 2011/03/24 bugs for Natty that are are targetted for fixing were broken down as follows:
<skaet>       * kernel:   linux: 7  drivers: 5
<skaet>       * foundations:  19
<skaet>       * server: 6
<skaet>       * desktop: 14
<skaet>       * ubuntuone: 2
<skaet>       * kubuntu: 6
<skaet>       * desktop experience: 26
<skaet>       * arm: 9
<skaet> .
<skaet> This is still up from where we were with maverick, so appreciate the continued focus on it.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Milestoned bugs for beta 1 can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=33574.
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+bugs
<skaet> .
<skaet> Note that the renaming of beta to beta-1 caused some links to become inaccurate.  If you spot any that are broken, please let me know.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming Significant Dates:
<skaet> Beta 1 Release is March 31st.    :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Freeze windows for beta 2 and the final images are still under discussion,  but we'll likely be going with Scott's recommendations for the back part of the cycle (and staying in beta freeze for now).   If no one has further comments by end of day today,  I'll go ahead and broadcast out the revised freeze dates on ubuntu-release mail list for those interested.
<skaet> .
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any general questions about the release before we go into the round table?
 * skaet is hoping we have a working IRC channel today... 
<skaet> marjo,  are you able to see this?
<marjo> skaet: yes, looks fine on my end
<skaet> great thanks,
<skaet> lets head into round table then if no questions.
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update - marjo
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update - marjo
<marjo> hi folks
<marjo>  * Natty Beta 1 Work Items
<marjo> Natty Beta-1 Work Items
<marjo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cloud-server-n-uec-qa
<marjo> hggdh still blocked due to lack of working UEC since after Alpha 2. Blocked on Critical bug 717166
<marjo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-qa-n-laptop-testing-tracker
<marjo> All done. Thanks to primes2h and ara for their work on this.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<marjo>  * Natty boot regression report
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/
<marjo> Bug reports will be submitted by bdmurray
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/
<marjo> sorry wrong link
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/index.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~brian/daily-bootcharts/index.html
<marjo>  * Natty Blocking bugs
<marjo>  bug 717166
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 717166 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Natty) "Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/717166
<marjo>  * QA Dashboard
<marjo>  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/qadashboard/qadashboard.html
<marjo> Note linux, unity, ubiquity and firefox are all in both the "Last Day" and "Last 7 Days" metrics.
<marjo>  * Testing status:
<marjo>  Desktop Automated Testing results
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo> List of bugs found is at the bottom of page.
<marjo>  Server Automated Testing results
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12/view/ISO-server-Natty/?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/desktop-testing/natty/
<marjo>  1 test failed. hggdh will investigate.
<marjo>  Desktop and Alternate Image Testing results
<marjo>  http://204.236.234.12:8080/view/natty-desktop/?
<marjo>  Desktop tests are currently disabled. Alternates pass.
<marjo> jibel is investigating failures on desktop images
<marjo>   Automatic Upgrade Testing
<marjo>  1 test failed.
<marjo>  sudo problem that causes the post-upgrade test to fail is fixed, but not yet in the archive, due to the freeze. Once its in, it should make all but main-all and python-all green.
<marjo>  Thanks to IS team for the bigger harddisk that enables the additional python-all test
<marjo>  * Nvidia drivers Unity testing
<marjo> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/graphics_testing/natty/
<marjo> 	* 34 different nVidia graphics cards have been tested
<marjo> 	* 20 bug reports have been submitted; 3 are high importance
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/graphics_testing/natty/
<marjo> ..
<skaet> Thanks Marjo!
<skaet> How did the ubiquity bug day go yestereday?
<marjo> skaet: will get you stats on that
<skaet> thanks marjo.  :)
<skaet> any one else have questions for marjo?
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - victorp
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - victorp
 * skaet looks around for victorp or ara
<skaet> hmm... ok,  lets move on and circle back to hardware cert at the end
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> hi
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> All work items tied to the release process are completed.
<skaet> sweet
<jdstrand> (though we have several remaining)
<jdstrand> In terms of milestoned bugs, after talking with pitti and doko, micahg is planning on fixing bug #663294 by rebuilding with gcc-4.4. We fixed several others (see the above report). As usual, team has been focusing primarily on stable release updates.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 663294 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu Natty) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<jdstrand> Dealt with various FTBFS due to multiarch fallout. Members of my team have come across this several times already. Is there a plan to ensure buildability for supported packages? Is the archive going to be rebuilt?
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand
<skaet> we need to get the plans for the multiarch fleshed out,  and work with slangasek on that
<skaet> expect it to be the subject of discussion at UDS ;)
<jdstrand> well
<jdstrand> it needs to be worked out prior to then, at least in terms of building from source
<jdstrand> otherwise my team won't be able to effectively update packages in natty stable
<cjwatson> I think we have a test rebuild due ...
<skaet> [action] slangasek, jdstrand, skaet work through update packages issue for natty stable.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek, jdstrand, skaet work through update packages issue for natty stable.
<jdstrand> cjwatson: is that part of the release interlock or you saying "yeah, we need to do that"
<cjwatson> I can't find the dates, but I was under the impression that it was scheduled
<cjwatson> I'll need to check with doko though
<jdstrand> ok cool
<jdstrand> skaet: care to add doko to that action?
<skaet> will do
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<skaet> Thanks for bringing up the issue.
 * jdstrand nods
<skaet> any other questions?
<marjo> o/
<skaet> go marjo
<marjo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110324
<marjo> Low level of activity, but some people weren't using the bug day wiki page for some reason. bdmurray will investigate.
<marjo> ..
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> will follow up with you offline.
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<marjo> skaet: ack
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> The remaining ubuntu-11.04-beta milestone work items are not critical to the release and should start to move to completion within the next week. The Natty distro kernel is now at v2.6.38-7.38 however we still need to upload v2.6.38-7.39 which is a no-change upload to rebuild against the new compiler update. This will require a beta freeze exception which I've already notified skaet about. Beyond this we do not anticipat
<ogasawara> e any further uploads of the kernel until after Beta. We continue to track the upstream stable v2.6.38.y kernel as we move forward and have recently rebased to upstream stable v2.6.38.1 which will be in the first post Beta upload.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out on the agenda against the kernel, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> #539467 SATA alpm is now disabled in userspace, possible fix for Nvidia mcp65 controllers when in minimal power mode has been tested with positive feedback;
<ogasawara> #542660 testing with v2.6.38 final still problematic, needs further investigation.
<ogasawara> #625364 looks possible to work around using a pm-utils quirk;
<ogasawara> #630748 remains waiting on Intel for updated wireless firmware;
<ogasawara> #634487 workaround exists, but proper fix still needs investiagion.
<ogasawara> #707353 Fix released in linux-firmware-1.49.
<ogasawara> #712075 partial fix in place, testing requested with 2.6.38 final kernel;
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara!
 * skaet looks around...
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Lots of good bug progress this week.  That mad plymouth segfault should be dead, Michael fixed sudo upgrades, Surbhi fixed RAID1 boot degraded mode, and we landed the changes to avoid involving vesafb in the boot process unless we have to (which is huge for text-free boot, and has apparently made a significant dent in the visible bug flow).
<cjwatson> Surbhi is making good progress on converting the initramfs to Upstart, although this is for Oneiric.
<cjwatson> We do still have several high-priority bugs open for beta-1:
<cjwatson>  * 671016: Alejandra Obregon has offered to help design this landing page.  It may slip beyond beta-1, though.
<cjwatson>  * 728611: I can't reproduce this on my test systems so far, so will take more effort
<cjwatson>  * 730759: under discussion with MIR team
<cjwatson>  * 736111: if this is going to be fixed, I think it may need to be a workaround by the ARM team
<cjwatson>  * 739400, 739489: uncertain of status, but these were recently filed by Evan and assigned to himself so I assume he's on top of them
<cjwatson>  * 737603: active discussion between James and Steve - I'm not clear on whether openjdk-6 actually needs to change here, or whether it's all in libjna-java
<cjwatson> The count is still fairly significant, but I'm pretty sanguine about our state at the moment.
<cjwatson> Working on rolling out data.tar.xz and orig.tar.xz support in Launchpad.  We're nearly there.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson
<skaet> In your mind,  we'll finally be good for WUBI testing again with beta?
 * skaet thinks all the blockers are gone, but wants to double check.
<cjwatson> I think so, though there are still a few odd bugs lurking
 * skaet nods
<cjwatson> bug 741859 came up yesterday evening and I don't understand it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 741859 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "natty wubi install shows grub shell after update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741859
<cjwatson> so, yeah, work required
<skaet> fair enough for this part of the cycle.
<skaet> nice work on getting so many of the bugs closed last week.  :)
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - zul
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - zul
<zul> Hi
<zul> We are behind the trend line for beta-1, but we have been busy. Ill be poking people to update their specs. Also we added an auberienge color scheme and the ubuntu command line. Bugs that have been nominated are the following:
<zul> Outstanding bugs:
<zul> Outstanding bugs:
<zul> 561779 - squid - squid is not started on runlevel transition 1 -> 2.
<zul> 	* need to update upstart relatively easy to do.
<zul> 727286 - libvirt - apparmor is blocking libvirt-bin from accessing folders in "/
<zul> 	* Fixed already in natty.
<zul> 733914 - autofs5 - autofs races network interfaces, ends up not working
<zul> 	* Upstart job needs to be updated and tested.
<zul> 728088 - debian-installer - iscsi root (amd64) with or without auth fails to boot
<zul> 	* Assigned to the canonical foundations team
<zul> Ongoing bugs:
<zul> 697753 - eucalyptus - bittorrrent recomendations prevents demotion
<zul> 	* still pending upload
<zul> 717166 - Eucalyptus - Broken with v4 isc-dhcp-server in Natty
<zul> 	* still ongoing testing and debugging
<zul> 580319 - dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start
<zul> 	Assigned to JamesHunt
<zul> 727342 - FE for open-vm-tools kernel module
<zul> 	* test
<zul> New bugs:
<zul> 726769 - eucalyptus - Eucalytpus failed to install
<zul> 735017 - php-fpm failed to install if /var/www doesnt exist.
<zul> i just noticed 726769 so Ill get Daviey to work on it and the php-fpm bug is a known bug that has already been fixed in debian we just have to cherry pick the fix
<zul> ...
<jdstrand> zul: I fixed bug #727286 last week. not sure why it is still on your list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 727286 in libvirt (Ubuntu Natty) "apparmor is blocking libvirt-bin from accessing folders in "/"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727286
<skaet> thanks zul!
<zul> jdstrand: yeah i noticed this morning as well thanks!
<zul> i suspect alot of these bugs will be fixed after the beta
<skaet> re:  727342, I thought that Daviey tested it and was good with it?
 * skaet hopes zul's right ;)
<zul> the open-vm-tools one? i thought serge was still asking for testers
<skaet> yeah,  that's the one.
<zul> ill double check
<skaet> ok,  we'll look into it more offline then.
<skaet> thanks
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> General status:
<pitti>  * We made great progress with eliminating the old xulrunner-1.9.2 and also xulrunner-2.0 from main, as these are now pretty much unsupportable after the recently announced changes for Firefox' release schedule. Bug 740815 coordinates the work, still some things to do post-b1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 740815 in xulrunner-1.9.2 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Updates to enable us to drop xulrunner from main" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740815
<pitti>  * New natty langpacks will be uploaded Sunday evening. Firefox search plugins will be back.
<pitti>  * i386 CD oversized by 5 MB; that will be rectified by fresh langpacks, and eliminating some egl packages which we currently pull in through libcairo. We need to split out the GL backend, as it causes ridiculous memory leaks with the NVidia driver, and is only required for wayland.
<pitti> Blueprint implementation:
<pitti>  * On track for entire cycle
<pitti>  * Remaining work for Natty:
<pitti>   * unity a11y: We decided to give this one more week after beta (i. e. one release cycle), and if it's not good enough by then, we'll default to the classic GNOME session for the a11y profiles which need screen reading
<pitti>   * Some remaining porting to xulrunner-2.0/webkit (see above)
<pitti>   * Some remaining upgrade migration for deprecated applets
<pitti>   * Various "test that this works", discuss user testing
<pitti> RC bugs:
<pitti>  * as usual, on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs
<pitti>  * For the ones we can't realistically fixed we now got contingency plans and workarounds, so we should make some good progress there right after b1 (maybe some fixes can still slip in)
<pitti> ..
<skaet> Thanks pitti!
<pitti> sorry for the FFE rush for xulrunner, but we'll go insane if we don't do it
<pitti> (that hit us pretty unexpectedly..)
<jdstrand> pitti: thanks for working on it :)
<skaet> understood,  it happens.   will look into your contingency plans for the rcbugs offline and get back to you.
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team - Chipaca or joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team - Chipaca or joshuahoover
 * skaet looks for Chipaca_ ?
<Chipaca_> I'm afraid I haven't done my homework this week; the status page will be updated next week
<skaet> hmm, something must have happened,  will circle back at end then.
<Chipaca_> that's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/NattyReleaseStatus
<skaet> ok
<Chipaca_> on the FFE front, bindwood is pretty much done, yay :)
<skaet> Thanks,  please send me a ping when I can look at it then.
<Chipaca_> ..
<Chipaca_> (sorry)
<skaet> Thanks Chipaca_  will get with you off line.  Can you please update this agenda with your comments after you get the summary figured out?
<Chipaca_> skaet: sure. Actually I'll get joshua to do it :)
<skaet> [ACTION] Chipaca_/Joshua to add ubuntu one summary directly to 2011-03-25 agenda status page.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Chipaca_/Joshua to add ubuntu one summary directly to 2011-03-25 agenda status page.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - Riddell
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> :)
<Riddell>  * CDs in decent shape for beta
<Riddell>  * switching Qt to opengles on ARM means fixes needed to packages which use opengl, workaround in progress.  I've also been helping linaro folks package kwin for opengles
<Riddell>  * Qt security fix for Comono fake SSL certificates in natty
<Riddell>  * Qt accessibility bridge in ppa:jr if anyone wants to test
<Riddell>  * KDE SC 4.6.2 due out the Tuesday after Beta 1
<Riddell>  * http://goo.gl/23eui 10 bugs milestoned for beta
<skaet> ..?
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> :)  Thanks.
<skaet> of the 6 bugs called out in the agenda,   do they actively have someone working them,  or are they in limbo.
<victorp> skaet - when is the release meeting?
 * skaet hasn't dug into each individually yet this week... 
<Riddell> skaet: actually I don't know how to list those 6 bugs
<skaet> Riddell,  ok, I'll get with you offline.
<skaet> and see if we can figure out how to get an effective summary from both sides,  prob. after beta -1 though ;)
<skaet> victorp, started 40 minutes ago.
<skaet> victorp,  we'll call on you after the rest of the round table,  ok?
<skaet> any other questions for Riddell?
<skaet> Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth
<dbarth_> hi
<skaet> :)
<dbarth_> status report at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/NattyReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> some ffe news first
<dbarth_> overlay scrollbar and multitouch integration are done and "green lighted"
<dbarth_> we're blocked on a11y for places, trying to scope that down to just support alt-f2
<dbarth_> (pitti was also mentioning it earlier)
 * skaet nods
<dbarth_> 2 new small FFEs for MT apps (see report)
<dbarth_> for the rest, nice bug fix counters for both unity shell and foundations
<pitti> dbarth_: oh, did sabdfl ack the scrollbar FFE? I didn't see that on the bug
<dbarth_> not yet
<dbarth_> Yet another batch of 60 bugs fixed this week! - see https://launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/3.6.8 - including
<dbarth_> numerous crashers for compiz, its decorator, unity, nux or places
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released]
<dbarth_> lots of UI tweaks, like a nice search progress signal
<dbarth_> ?!
<dbarth_> and
<dbarth_> 20 bugs fixed in Foundations this week https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-foundations/+milestone/unity-3.6.8, including
<dbarth_> a lot more fixes for places, including a nasty crasher 737396
<dbarth_> desktop menu update from Ted 692194
<dbarth_> improvements in the ayatana-scrollbar 728418 and whitelist support 740276
<dbarth_> ..
<pitti> dbarth_: for a11y, my most recent knowledge is that Luke should test b1, and if it's not good enough, we'll use classic for profiles with screen reading?
<dbarth_> b1 doesn't contain anything that can make alt-f2 work for him
<dbarth_> we're trying to propose a patch on monday, but that won't go into the images anyway
<dbarth_> after monday, we should drop the feature if we can't make it work
<dbarth_> other questions?
<skaet> ok.   will work with you around tuesday to make sure we've got the release notes appropriate for this release.
<dbarth_> sure
<skaet> btw - Thanks dbarth_!   awesome job on all those bug fixes getting in this week.
<dbarth_> i'll pass that on to the team, thanks; they we're really on fire on wednesday night!
<skaet> any other questions?
<dbarth_> (were)
<skaet> dbarth_, yes,  they were, and it was much appreciated.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra
 * ogra_ waves
<ogra_> Status is at:
<ogra_> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> Summary:
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<ogra_>  * OMAP4 TI kernel has HDMI support again (image builds need to change boot cmdline before beta for this)
<ogra_>  * PowerVR SGX drivers ported to .38 and already available at the TI PPA
<ogra_>  * unity-2d was updated to the latest release (3.8) with about 60 bugs fixed.
<ogra_>  * Mono ARM research is going on, NCommander thinks he has a workaround for the identified SMP issues on ARM with mono.
<ogra_>  * ARM specific FTBFS list for main only has KDE packages left.
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> Image status:
<ogra_>  * Netbook images are currently broken, waiting for the archive to settle
<ogra_>  * New headless/serial image works fine but is broken due to new kernel upload atm.
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> Specs:
<ogra_> Entire status: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> Milestone: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta-1.html
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> Bugs:
<ogra_>  * 619981
<ogra_>  * 721531
<ogra_>  * 633227
<ogra_> ..
 * skaet notes that ogra's separators are the same as .. for end.   not sure if he's done?
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> should i use two separators at the end of my paste in the future ?
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra!   does it look like we'll be able to resolve all the ARM FTBFS for KDE by monday?
<skaet> yup, 2 separators would work.  :)
<ogra_> not sure, the gles bits seem to require some bigger changes for some apps
<skaet> ok,   what about the 9 bugs on the agenda?
<ogra_> but i think not all apps that ftbfs are on the images
<ogra_> i will look over them, some shouldnt be milestoned at all
<skaet> ok, please do.
<ogra_> bug 728335 seems to not be arm related
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728335 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Natty) "No visual feedback on the splashscreen during jasper run" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728335
<ogra_> i have no idea why cross toolchain bugs show up on our list
<skaet> if they're not appropriate, that's also what I want to know.   So I can make sure they're not orphaned.
<ogra_> they are linaro
<skaet> feel free to cut/paste them there, when you see it.
<ogra_> i'll go over the list piece by piece offline before beta and talk to you if they are wrongly assigned
<skaet> generally if they have armel tag,  I use that as indicator.
<skaet> great
<skaet> thanks!
<ogra_> thats definitely wrong
<ogra_> armel covers everything thats armel :)
<ogra_> not team specific at all
 * skaet is happy to figure out some better heuristics with ogra...  :)
<ogra_> only hw specific ...
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> yeah
<skaet> any other questions for ogra?
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ScottK
<ogra_> we usually subscribe the ubuntu-armel team to the bugs we're intrested in
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ScottK
<ScottK> Hello
<ScottK> We were going to discuss a mass giveback at this meeting.
<ScottK> armel's just been done, so no need to do it again.
<ScottK> I think we ought to do i386/amd64/powerpc.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> ok,  things I'm aware of happening are the kernel builds.
<skaet> cjwatson,  pitti,  what do you estimate the builder loads will be like?
<ScottK> The retries are almost all Universe so shouldn't block stuff in Main at all.
<ScottK> If we do it today, it'll be done before Monday.
<pitti> skaet: I think we should do it now to make use of the weekend
<pitti> and i386/amd64 are empty right now, it's just arm struggling
<pitti> so, +1 from me
<cjwatson> right, I can check why all those buildds are disabled
<skaet> ok, sounds like we should be good to do it then.
<cjwatson> and if armel's just been done, that answers that part of it
<cjwatson> so yeah, let's do it
<ScottK> It has.
<pitti> cjwatson: the first three are known to lamont; it's not a spurious disconnect which we can just re-enable
<pitti> skaet: and there won't be too much gardening of unapproved over the weekend; and if so, we can always bump their build score
<cjwatson> yup
<skaet> pitti, cjwatson, ScottK - sounds like should be fine.  lets go for it.
<cjwatson> I'll take care of it (either directly or via lamont)
<ScottK> Great.
<skaet> ScottK,  you pulling the trigger?
<cjwatson> 15:58 <cjwatson> I'll take care of it (either directly or via lamont)
<ScottK> skaet: I have no trigger.
<skaet> oops
 * skaet interpretted cjwatson
<ScottK> I will write an email to warn people.
<skaet> comments about the builders not working rather than the start of the give back
<skaet> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> oh, right, yeah, I meant the give-back
<skaet> thanks for writing the warning note ScottK
<skaet> :)
<skaet> any questions for ScottK?
<skaet> [Topic] Linaro update - JamieBennett
<MootBot> New Topic:  Linaro update - JamieBennett
<JamieBennett> o/
<JamieBennett> So not much to report this week
<JamieBennett> we uploaded a new kernel which fixed a tonne of bugs
<JamieBennett> but the multi-arch stuff still continues to happen
 * skaet nods
 * victorp says hi
<JamieBennett> the aim is for an integrated but not fully functional multi-arch story by end of cycle
<JamieBennett> and a rocking 11.10
<JamieBennett> so with that in mind we are just fixing issues that have happened due to the changes
<JamieBennett> there are no other real intersections to report
<JamieBennett> ..
<skaet> fair enough.   Thanks JamieBennett
<skaet> any questions for JamieBennett ?
<doko_> ScottK: mass give back was done for all archs beginning of this week. why is another one needed?
<ScottK> doko_: Was it done for all archs or just armel?
<ScottK> If it was all archs, then it's not.
<ScottK> (needed)
 * ScottK thought it was just armel.
<ScottK> doko_: A quick sampling I see !armel build failures older than this week.
<ScottK> (I found 3/9 just checking a few)
<skaet> [ACTION] doko, ScottK, cjwatson review what's still needed for the giveback and initiate for non-armel if necessary.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  doko, ScottK, cjwatson review what's still needed for the giveback and initiate for non-armel if necessary.
<skaet> victorp?  do you have stable connection?
<victorp_> kind of
<victorp_> trying webchat.freenode.net
<victorp_> :)
<victorp_> skaet I have emailed you my update
<victorp_> anyone there?
<skaet> yup
<victorp_> ok - shall I go?
<skaet> do you want to try posting,  so we don't have extra work
<doko_> ScottK: they were given back, if there are new ones ... I don't know
<skaet> yes please...  just sec.
<skaet> Topic] Hardware Certification team update
<victorp_> lets try
<victorp_> This weeks coverage is the biggest that we got so far. Lab issues are being fixed and new systems that we plan to certify for 11.04 are being added. You can find the report in the usual location:
<victorp_> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/hw-testing/current
<victorp_> We keep improving our tests to reduce false negatives  Some issues:   * The bug about the Tecra R700 not suspending/resuming properly is still outstanding:
<victorp_> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/708286
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 708286 in linux (Ubuntu) "Resume after suspend not working - Toshiba Tecra R700" [Undecided,New]
<victorp_> * Some of the new systems added this week are not pxe booting. This looks like a configuration issue and we are still investigating
<victorp_> Also, we reported Bootmetrics to the QA team
<victorp_> ..
<marjo> victorp_ thx!
<victorp_> marjo - no probs
<skaet> thanks victorp_  :)
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
 * skaet looking around.... 
<skaet> Thanks to marjo, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, zul, pitti, Chipaca_, Riddell, dbarth, ogra, ScottK, JamieBennett, victorp_, doko
<skaet> #endmeeting
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:10.
<jdstrand> thanks skaet
<marjo> skaet: thx!
<Chipaca_> de nada, actually :-/
<victorp_> skaet thx! will try to get a better connection for next week
<skaet> Chipaca_, appreciate you following up with joshuahoover, and making sure there's something recorded.   so thanks are appropriate.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks victorp,  looking forward to better connection and DST issues getting resolved.  :)
<victorp> :) now is working fine
<victorp> must be your meeting skaet ;)
<doko_> jdstrand: archive rebuild still planned before the b1, but we need to fix basic multiarch things first, or else we see too many failures
<skaet> victorp,  lol.  yeah keep that excuse,  it might even work ;)
<jdstrand> doko_: noted. thanks
<lamont> cjwatson: the buildds get disabled because the packages they're being asked to build so massively overtax the buildd that either (1) it falls over dead, or (2) launchpad decides it has, even though it hasn't.  in either case, launchpad then moves the build onto the next buildd and we knock that one over in turn
<lamont> and since gcc, gcj, openjdk, and such are (1) examples, (2) needs-build/building, and(3) in main, it really really sucks to be a universe package
<victorp> ;D
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-03-27
<jussi> o/
<topyli> \m/
<tsimpson> ok..
<tsimpson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is tsimpson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<topyli> zarro boogs
<tsimpson> [topic] Review last meetings action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review last meetings action items
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/March
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReports/11/March
<tsimpson> jussi: did you get anywhere on "[ACTION] jussi to document thoughts on namespace limits"?
<topyli> jussi: have you gotten around to documenting the namespace limits? i suppose you've been a bit distracted by travel
<jussi> tsimpson: no, Ive been away and barely had time to think-
<tsimpson> I'll put that on the review items for the next meeting then
<jussi> thanks
<tsimpson> so eir then
<topyli> we have feedback
<tsimpson> I don't think we got any real objection to its using NOTICEs, so that should be ok
<topyli> yeah
<tsimpson> I was thinking that, when we enable it, we could use #ubuntu-ops-team for its reporting
<tsimpson> that way it can be done in public, but not have everyone read internal comments etc
<jussi> that sounds sane to me
<topyli> it does
<tsimpson> it would probably be better than having everything in /msg, as ubottu does now
<jussi> Im a bit out of things, what still needs to be done for integration with ubottu?
<tsimpson> mostly some technical issues with getting ubottu to figure out the ban/action ID
<topyli> tsimpson: it would be much better, we'd have some "papertrail" even if it's not public
<tsimpson> eir just knows "the last ban from <nick>", but it's a little more complex for ubottu
<tsimpson> I'm working on having ubottu query eir for the ban, then using that to get the ID
<tsimpson> but it's a bit of a pain, especially as our DB is quite large
<jussi> Ok. one thing that I do suggest (and Im quite willing to help) is that we make sure the usage is all documented before we implement.
<tsimpson> but it's not impossible, just a bit technical to find the "best" way
<tsimpson> basically what I'm trying to do is, when eir pokes you for a comment in -team, ubottu will pick up the comment that you give to eir
<tsimpson> so you don't have to repeat yourself to ubottu and eir
<topyli> sounds good if you can get it working
<tsimpson> it may take some fiddling, eir uses ! for commands, where ubottu uses @
<tsimpson> but we can mash something together, as !find and !info do now
<jussi> ok.
<tsimpson> so in general, we agree that, when ubottu is ready, eir should be added to #ubuntu?
<jussi> yes
<topyli> yes i support it
<tsimpson> [agreed] eir to be added to #ubuntu once ubottu interoperates with it
<MootBot> AGREED received:  eir to be added to #ubuntu once ubottu interoperates with it
<topyli> let's review progress at meetings
<jussi> ++
<tsimpson> [action] progress review for ubottu-eir interoperability at the next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  progress review for ubottu-eir interoperability at the next meeting
<tsimpson> :)
<topyli> right :)
<tsimpson> I think that's all the items from the last meeting
<topyli> it also completes our agenda :)
<tsimpson> is there anything else anyone wants to discuss?
<topyli> oh one thing
<topyli> we should ask for ideas for uds
<tsimpson> ah, yes
<topyli> jussi: you're going there right?
<jussi> I mentioned this in -ops a few days back
<jussi> topyli: no idea
<topyli> oh
<jussi> Lets see if they sponsor me
<topyli> there is that
<topyli> anyway, an email to the list might be a good idea
<tsimpson> perhaps we should wait until we find out if one of us is going ;)
<topyli> i suppose :)
<topyli> however, the ideas will probably find a good place somewhere in the community stream even if we didn't have our own sessions
<tsimpson> yeah
<jussi> Have either of you applied?
<tsimpson> wiki page + email would be my suggestion
<tsimpson> well I definitely can't go this year
<topyli> i haven't applied
<tsimpson> I'm not sure if I'll even be around on irc during UDS
<tsimpson> hopefully, but not sure
<jussi> topyli: you have 2 days :)
<topyli> oh that's plenty! :)
<jussi> but yes, I agree with tsimpson - wiki + email should do it
<jussi> topyli: http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/23/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open/
<tsimpson> who wants to set that up?
 * tsimpson gets @random ready
<jussi> @random elky nhandler tsimpson topyli jussi
<ubottu> tsimpson
<tsimpson> bad bot!
<topyli> ha
<tsimpson> I guess I'll do that then...
 * tsimpson makes a note to blacklist "tsimpson" from @random ;)
<jussi> I can help out. (you can be responsible)
<topyli> yeah you can write a draft and we'll chip in
<tsimpson> there was also #ubuntu-helpteam before I forget again
<tsimpson> it's unused
<tsimpson> and should be closed/forwarded somewhere useful
<jussi> drop it.
<tsimpson> @random drop close forward
<ubottu> drop
<topyli> haha
<tsimpson> the bot agrees, it shall be done
<tsimpson> anyone want to do that one?
<jussi> I gues just idle there a few weeks as to make sure someone doesnt pick it up
<jussi> I can
<tsimpson> I've been idling there for a couple of months...
<tsimpson> I just keep forgetting to bring it up
<jussi> anyway, Im on it
<topyli> i don't really know how to drop channels :)
<topyli> sounds like a technical thing!
<jussi> topyli: /msg chanserv drop #channel
<jussi> :P
<topyli> oh
<tsimpson> we'd want to get staff to do it for us though, we aren't +F
<tsimpson> and to give you an idea of how unused it is, it has a link for 8.10 in the topic..
<topyli> action nhandler then?
<tsimpson> [action] jussi to get staff to drop #ubuntu-helpteam
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jussi to get staff to drop #ubuntu-helpteam
<jussi> action completed :)
<topyli> heh
<tsimpson> anything else now that's done?
<jussi> [action] Jussi to go to bed.
<jussi> :P
<topyli> is there something we should do publicly about the rubbish channels?
<tsimpson> we were going to mention dropping other channel right?
<topyli> yeah
<jussi> ahh, yes.
<jussi> We should probably mail the list about that
<tsimpson> all the obviously off-topic and unused ones should probably just be dropped
<tsimpson> we can compile a list of the others and attempt do do something sensible with them
<topyli> are there a lot of channels we're uncertain about?
<jussi> uncertain?
<topyli> whether they're useful or not
<tsimpson> well the ones with freenode-staff as founder need sorting
<tsimpson> and there are a *lot* of channels to look through
<jussi> I would think that if the channel is active and has FS as founder, then need to sort. otherwise, just get them dropped.
<tsimpson> we need to go through the list and weed them out, that's going to take some time though
<tsimpson> and it's not something I'd like to action to one person ;)
<topyli> i wonder if we can get help from ops
<topyli> nobody probably *wants* to :)
<tsimpson> we can just work our way through them, marking the ones that need dropping, and batch the drops
<tsimpson> then go into details of in-use channels later
<topyli> i suppose it'll be done sooner or later if we get to it
<jussi> I think thats the best way
<jussi> We have the document with the list already, so just to start marking them
<topyli> yeah
<topyli> my new hobby!
<jussi> lol
<tsimpson> [action] IRCC to drop unused and off-topic channels, and contact other channels with freenode-staff as founder
<MootBot> ACTION received:  IRCC to drop unused and off-topic channels, and contact other channels with freenode-staff as founder
<jussi> excellent :)
<tsimpson> I think that really is all this time
<topyli> alright. thanks guys
<tsimpson> [action] tsimpson to do post-meeting tasks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to do post-meeting tasks
<tsimpson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:41.
<jussi> thanks lads!
<Thermi> gn8
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-19
<roadmr> hey!
<bazhang> hi
<roadmr> hello everyone! Time for the 1600 UTC Ubuntu Friendly meeting!!
<roadmr> #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 19 16:01:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is roadmr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Meeting | Current topic:
<roadmr> Hi everyone, welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting!
<roadmr> Today we have the following topics to talk about:
<roadmr> * Checkbox 0.13.5 and Precise Beta 2 (roadmr)
<roadmr> * Any Other Business
<roadmr> As usual, you're welcome to participate, to do so, indicate you want to speak by raising your hand (o/). Don't forget to also signal when you're done using ..
<roadmr> Let's get started with the agenda!
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Checkbox 0.13.5 and Precise Beta 2  (roadmr)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Meeting | Current topic:  Checkbox 0.13.5 and Precise Beta 2  (roadmr)
<roadmr> We want to try to include a new version of Checkbox (0.13.5) in Precise Beta 2, to get as much exposure and bug reports/fixes as possible in this important milestone.
<roadmr> This is not a done deal yet, we expect to prepare the upload tomorrow and the Beta freeze deadline is this Thursday. But I'll send a message to the mailing list if we manage to make it on time.
<roadmr> If so, expect this new version of Checkbox to land with Beta 2 on March 29th!
<roadmr> So once again, we'd like to ask for your help in running it and reporting any bugs you may find (by running ubuntu-bug checkbox, for instance).
<roadmr> This will allow us to continue fixing those bugs in time for the 12.04 release.
<roadmr> Note that thanks to the awesome work from both community and the Checkbox team, we had a large number of bugfixes which will hopefully make it into 0.13.5. Thanks everyone!
<ara> o/
<roadmr> ara: go ahead!
<ara> are we going to try https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/957090 to be part of that upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 957090 in checkbox "[UIFe] [Checkbox Qt] The welcome tab is confusing a lot of users" [Undecided,In progress]
<ara> what about the comments field?
<roadmr> ara: if we manage to get the exception approved, yes, ideally
<roadmr> ara: about the comments field thing, there's a bug about that, do you think we'd also need UIFe for that?
<ara> roadmr, yes, if we want it in precise we will need both uife and ffe
<roadmr> ara: ok, so I guess it depends on the paperwork being done in time then. I'd prefer to avoid a scramble like we had for 0.13.3, preparing everything at the last possible minute
<ara> roadmr, OK, let's give us today to get the paperwork done for those two
<ara> roadmr, what's the bug number for the comment field?
<roadmr> ara: let me find it...
 * roadmr looking
<roadmr> ara: ok, I lied, there's no bug about the comment thing :( so far it's a [FEATURE]
<roadmr> but I agree on trying to get those bugs today and starting with the upload tomorrow
<roadmr> ok, shall we move on?
<roadmr> [ACTION] roadmr to file bug on the comments feature
<meetingology> ACTION: roadmr to file bug on the comments feature
<roadmr> ok let's move on then :)
<roadmr> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<roadmr> Anything else you'd like to discuss, comment on, or bring to the team's attention? now's your chance!
<roadmr> any takers? :)
<roadmr> nobody?
<roadmr> last chance! :)
<roadmr> Well I guess this wraps things up for today. Thanks for attending! Remember the mailing list is open to all your UF-related comments and inquiries.
<roadmr> Thanks ara and everyone else! have a good day!
<roadmr> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 19 16:19:54 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-16.01.html
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> Hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 19 18:08:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Julian Taylor (jtaylor) provided a debdiff for oneiric for super (LP: #954579)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week. I'm happy to see that after running process_cves this morning, there was nothing new in oss-security
<jdstrand> (I went back 5 weeks by exporting my oss-security folder in evo as mbox, then running check-cves --untriaged on it)
<jdstrand> so, hopefully this indicates we are back on track despite mitre's efforts to thwart us :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> my focus this week is on finishing up my MIR secruity audits. I completed many last week but have 3 left. I think 1 more will be coming after that though
<jdstrand> depending on time, I will then move to install audits
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: you did the locate_cves on it first though, right?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you know, I missed that step :)
 * jdstrand will report back momentarily
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: whoops :)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
<mdeslaur> I'm working on a ca-certificates-java issue, and will go down the list after that
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> meh, nothing further to report
<mdeslaur> sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week, and have at least mahara to review.
<sbeattie> Otherwise, I'm working on apparmor bugs
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: tag, you're it.
<micahg> I have patch piloting, as well as everything I didn't finish last week (Thunderbird update, Icedtea regression, thunderbird SRU), all to be completed this week, then there's webkit and possibly a chromium major update if they're on their 6 week schedule
<micahg> well, thunderbird SRU not to be completed, but uploaded :)
<micahg> questions?
<micahg> off to tyhicks then :)
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> Making good progress on the freetype update. I noticed that Debian mainly only patched the invalid write vulns, while I'm also patching the invalid reads.
<tyhicks> It is a taking a bit longer, but I've got all the tests in place and I've backported everything to oneiric. Hopefully the other backports aren't too bad now.
<tyhicks> I've got another revision of my patch for bug 842647 done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842647 in eCryptfs "[git] file blocks duplicated at the end of the file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842647
<tyhicks> test kernels just got finished building and I'll be posting a link to those shortly, after doing a quick smoke test
<tyhicks> That's about it for me. I'll be moving on to another update after I'm done with freetype.
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I am continuing to look at Bug #959560, and any other apparmor bug that surfaces, or needs looking into (that includes following up with Christain on the mod_apparmor bug and also the APPARMOR_STOP mode for debugging).  I need to post out the next revision of the mount rules kernel patch to lkml, get some mount rule tests added to the regression test suite,  I also needed to start catching up on some of the deferred kernel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959560 in AppArmor "deny mount does not work correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959560
<jjohansen> sigh, /me needs to also work on getting that paste right so it doesn't show up as one big blob
<jjohansen> jdstrand: back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> so it looks like there were 6 things in oss-sec we didn't have. still not bad
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jruby.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rt73.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xcftools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/chasen.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/open-vm-tools.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I noted you were planning on doing install audits; should we also start verifying qa-r-t tests for precise?
<sbeattie> I'm asking because I fixed on issue with mysql/qart on precise, but now the upstream tests are failing, and it may require fixing something in the mysql package.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I'm not sure how we want to do these. we (I) failed in getting them done for precise and aiui the qa team is incorporating them
<jdstrand> sbeattie: my feeling at this time is to just update them as we have time
<jdstrand> and fix any bugs that the qa team reports. we can maybe formalize this a bit more next month. I don't think any of us have time to get this done before april all things considered
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: what are your thoughts?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I somewhat agree, and in fact, the whole reason I looked at mysql was due to GrueMaster pointing out the breakage.
<mdeslaur> I think we should wait for qa team bug reports and/or patches
<sbeattie> but for some things it's better to know in advance...
<mdeslaur> well, for stuff like apparmor where we're pretty much the maintainer, I agree we should be looking at them for precise
<mdeslaur> but for other packages, I assume the qa team is running them on the dev release
<jdstrand> sbeattie: certainly. the QA team is supposed to get to the point where they are running these all the time, so the advanced notice is just part of our normal qa process.afaik, we aren't there yet, but should be fixing any bugs that they give to us
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh certainly. if a qrt package is tied to our acceptance criteria, we need to be running it
<jdstrand> s/package/script/
<jdstrand> sbeattie: can you hand that mysql failure to someone else on the team for now?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: can discuss outside of the meeting
<sbeattie> jdstrand: okay.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 19 18:31:32 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-18.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-18.08.html
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
 * micahg had something else, but it can wait until next week
<micahg> jdstrand: thanks
<beam> Hi...I have a question, and I will be very grateful if someone could help me.I do not know whether this is the place, and certainly does seem a bit frivolous, but I still wonder.with ubuntu 10.4 am and I've installed opera from opera_11.61.1250_i386.deb.
<beam> his opera itself actually works perfectly, but it open where the icon appears on top of the panel to the notification area is slightly unsized (slightly smaller than that of starter and any glare and reflections).I know not, who knows what the problem, but I ceased provoking. so I hope someone knows where the system loads the icon to change it to another level.
<micahg> beam: you want #ubuntu
<beam> aha
<beam> but there is like a honeycomb
<micahg> beam: there's also askubuntu.com and answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<beam> aha...
<beam> so... you do not know
<ScottK> beam: The question is off topic for this channel.
<beam> ooo
<kees> mdz, cjwatson, soren, stgraber: tech board in 5 min ...
<cjwatson> hi
 * stgraber waves
<mdz> kees, hi
<soren> Er... It's in an hour.
<soren> Right?
 * kees head-desks
<soren> Didn't we agree to keep the UTC time?
<kees> yes, sorry.
<kees> I'll re-ping in an hour...
<soren> The wiki wasn't updated when I looked earlier today.
<cjwatson> yay for google calendar
 * stgraber blames his phone for saying it was now
<kees> soren: I just touched the wiki up a few minutes ago.
<cjwatson> soren: I only remembered to do the minutes after seeing pitti's apologies mail
<kees> okay, I've tied my google calendar event to Reykjavik now
<kees> I swear I'd done that already
<micahg> umm, the fridge calendar should be fixed to be in UTC then
<micahg> or rather the meeting, as it's still showing as now
<cjwatson> that's a consequence of the google calendar
<micahg> no, there's a GMT time zone you can set appts in that won't change when the meeting is based on DST
<micahg> GMT/no DST or something like that
<Mkays|> What meeting are you having?
<soren> None. We'll be having the Ubuntu Technical Board meetin gin 50 minutes.
<soren> This is the pre-meeting where we discuss when to have the real meeting :)
<Mkays|> I see
<ScottK> soren: Whoa.  Better plan that.  You wouldn't want to dive straight into the pre-meeting with no planning.
<soren> ScottK: Are you volunteering for the pre-meeting planning committee?
<ScottK> Nope.  I was once in the Navy and it turns out that's an acroynm for "Never Again Volunteer Yourself".  It's a motto I try to live by.
<highvoltage> That motto is easier said than done :)
<Mkays|> It looks like a loop
<ScottK> highvoltage: Right.  I try.  I often fail.
<Mkays|> First you volunteer and say that and  then you volunteer again
<ScottK> You can't not do it again until you've done it once.
<Mkays|> Pre-meeting is probably good pplace to ask, what is Ubuntu technical board?
<ScottK> Mkays|: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/
<Mkays|>  Ok
<Mkays|> Looks interesting :-)
<kees> cjwatson, mdz, soren, stgraber: tech board in 5 min (for real this time)
 * stgraber waves again
<soren> o/
<mdz> kees, hi
<mdz> (having to juggle a bit because the calendar said it was an hour ago)
<kees> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 19 21:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> micahg: I wasn't saying it was an inherent consequence of google calendar, but rather that it's a consequence of the calendar as currently set up
<micahg> fair enough
<kees> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<cjwatson> I didn't fill out the actions, best check the minutes for that, sorry
 * kees goes to find minutes, one sec
<kees> cjwatson: hrm, where did the minutes end up? I don't see them on ubuntu-devel
<kees> skipping for now...
<cjwatson> devel-announce
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-March/000942.html
<kees> [topic] Soren agreed to send mail regarding meeting time changes.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Soren agreed to send mail regarding meeting time changes.
<kees> er
<kees> [topic] Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<kees> Soren agreed to send mail regarding meeting time changes.
<kees> I didn't see that go to tech-board list. is that still outstanding?
<soren> Yeah.
<kees> okay
<kees> [action] Soren to send mail regarding meeting time changes.
<meetingology> ACTION: Soren to send mail regarding meeting time changes.
<kees> I don't see any other actions in the minutes.
<kees> [topic] Brain storm review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Brain storm review
<kees> I failed miserably at this.
<kees> there was discussion about how we could improve the process.
<kees> do we want to tie this to releases? or mid-release time frames?
<cjwatson> well, a few things there, imho
<cjwatson> we want it to be at a point when people aren't in crunch mode
<kees> right
<cjwatson> we also want it to be at a point when people can say "oh yes, great idea, I've implemented that for the next release" 'cos that feels good
<cjwatson> so I'd like it to be somewhere in the feature development slot
<kees> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule <- before "Feature Definition Freeze" ?
<cjwatson> well, that's for big stuff requiring lots of planning, I think it's fine for this to be later, personally
<kees> hrm, is it worth doing before UDS?
<kees> there aren't a lot of good places to sneak this in
<kees> well, I propose we have it due the week before Debian Import Freeze.
<kees> thoughts?
<soren> I have no problem with that.
<kees> okay, I'll send an email to the list with that mentioned.
<kees> [action] propose slot in devel cycle for brainstorm feedback
<meetingology> ACTION: propose slot in devel cycle for brainstorm feedback
<cjwatson> ok
<kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
<ScottK> Is there stuff in Brainstorm that's actionable and worth doing?  Admittedly it was quite awhile ago, but I once looked through it pretty deeply looking for something I could say "Nice idea, I'd like to spend some time on that" and came up dry.
<ScottK> (sorry that was late)
<kees> ScottK: that was my experience too, which is what contributed to my epic fail this time around
<cjwatson> ScottK: the last time I did a TB review it wasn't too bad
<ScottK> OK.
<cjwatson> there were certainly actionable and useful things there, although a certain amount of it was indeed not actionable
<kees> I don't see anything on the list that has gone unaddressed.
<cjwatson> restricting to the top ten helps, as does not having to restrict to things only the person looking for things can do
<cjwatson> (I suspect the trail goes dry not desperately far below the top ten, but)
<danel> hello I'm new to this room
<danel> michael rawson recommended me to the room(known as mg&tl from the forums)
<kees> hi danel, this channel is used for regular ubuntu meetings. (and we're in the middle of the technical board meeting currently.)
<kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<stgraber> what's the status of Ubuntu Studio regarding LTS status?
<kees> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/252368 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375 are still there with no more action.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252368 in Launchpad itself "Automatically associate DD and DM accounts with GPG keys in keyring packages to allow DDs to use the Launchpad Email interface" [Low,Triaged]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged]
<kees> stgraber: according to meeting minutes, tb asked for more details.
<kees> stgraber: I haven't seen anything about it since the last meeting, though.
<stgraber> yeah, I seem to remember we were supposed to get more details by mail to the mailing list
<kees> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<kees> Any one have anything to bring up?
<mdz> nope
<cjwatson> not I
<kees> chair?
<stgraber> nope
<mdz> I think I'm next in sequence?
<soren> nope
<kees> okay, mdz is chair for the Apr 2nd meeting.
<kees> alright, thanks everyone!
<kees> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 19 21:28:53 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-21.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-19-21.02.html
<danel> do I need permission to speak from another member?
<ScottK> danel: No, but this place is pretty quiet except during meetings.
<danel> ok
<danel> well I have been wanting to contribute to ubuntu front/back end
<danel> don't know too much but....
<danel> here is an example of a file I wrote that hasn't been compiled yet
<ScottK> If you're interesting in development, you should try #ubuntu-devel.
<danel> whoops
<danel> sorry wrong xchat room
<danel> it's in freenode as well?
<danel> ok thanks
<ScottK> yes
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-20
<hallyn> \o
 * justinlw not attending, on ARM tech review meeting
<zul> hello
<Ursinha> hello
<smoser> o/
<arosales> Hello
<lynxman> o/
<Daviey> o/
<Daviey> Oh, it's me!
<Daviey> Sorry
<Daviey> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 20 16:05:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is Daviey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Daviey> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> arosales: add subtopics for release-bugs/BP;s under precise/current development
<hallyn> think i saw that done
<arosales> Hello
<arosales> I think I saw that was added,
<Daviey> cool
<Daviey> nothing else?
<Daviey> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Precise Development
<Daviey> So... 2 days until Beta 2 Freeze
<hallyn> "eek"
<Daviey> lets go through the bugs:
<Daviey> #link http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> bug 883988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883988 in glance (Ubuntu Precise) "db migration failing when upgrading glance - trying to create existing tables" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883988
<Daviey> adam_g: ^^ ?
<arosales> hallyn: thank you for adding the release /blueprint subtopicks (I was diff'ing to see where that came in)
<hallyn> arosales: i didn't :)  accident of wiki misbehavior
<Daviey> bug 850443: considering deferring
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850443 in python-eventlet (Ubuntu) "Nova API does not listen on IPv6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850443
<Daviey> smoser: is bug 928990 you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 928990 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "fsck / dirty filesystem on instance is death" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928990
<smoser> well, unless someone else wantsn to look at it.
<smoser> it would be good to get in, but its been that way for ever.
<Daviey> :(
 * utlemming can't attend due to a phone conflict with
<utlemming> a vendor
<Daviey> utlemming: ok, can you comment if bug 893926 is progressing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 893926 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "Contains traces of UEC" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893926
<SpamapS> lol, I've no excuse. Just forgot now that it is so much more convenient. ;)
<Daviey> SpamapS: bug 930916 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<utlemming> I've done the initial scoping, hoping to have something this week
<SpamapS> Daviey: its a simple fix, just haven't prioritized it yet.
<Daviey> adam_g: bug 956366
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956366 in nova (Ubuntu) "self-referential security groups can not be deleted" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956366
<Daviey> utlemming: thanks
<Daviey> roaksoax: Are you likely going to have capacity to work on bug 880339 this week?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<roaksoax> Daviey: no TBH
<Daviey> I suspect it's a "no"..
<Daviey> SpamapS: Can you take that?
<Daviey> zul: bug 907197 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907197 in nova (Ubuntu) "ip address can't be injected into the instance when using lxc " [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907197
<zul> was not able to reproduce and no feedback from bug reporter
<Daviey> jjohansen: Hey, how is bug 925024 progressing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925024 in linux (Ubuntu) "apparmor makes it impossible to install postgresql-common on Precise" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925024
<Daviey> zul: Make it incomplete ?
<zul> ack
<SpamapS> Daviey: the apparmor bug has been fixed for a long time.. I think
<Daviey> SpamapS: ah cool, can you update the bug with what you know?
<Daviey> zul: bug 954692
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 954692 in nova (Ubuntu) "cannot detach volume from terminated instance" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/954692
<SpamapS> Daviey: I did.. the reporter has not responded.
<jjohansen> Daviey: err that one should be fixed
<Daviey> SpamapS: hah
<Daviey> jjohansen: oh great!  Can you update the bug task? :)
<Daviey> zul: tracking, bug 901881?
<zul> Daviey: fix was uploaded this morning
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<jjohansen> Daviey: yep, sorry
<zul> Daviey: yep
<Daviey> zul: bug 959610 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959610 in Keystone "keystone is not logging" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959610
<Daviey> jjohansen: Thanks!
<zul> fix has been proposed
<Daviey> super!
<Daviey> Soo... We are tracking a bunch of MIR's.. but firstly.. is there anything not being tracked which are purely b1 critical ?
<Daviey> As in a release blocker for B1 only.. ie, needs fixing this week
<SpamapS> B2
<Daviey> err, yeah
<Daviey> SpamapS: I'd like to jump in a time machine :)
<hallyn> well the lxc apparmor stuff is close to that...
<SpamapS> If juju's support for subordinates lands this week, on time, I'll be filing a fairly late FFE for B2 for all the new stuff in juju.
<Daviey> hallyn: how is it progressing?
<hallyn> Daviey: it's sort of whack-a-mole right now.
<Daviey> SpamapS: Are you tracking it's development and testing closely ?
<hallyn> so i don't know if we're one step away, or not
<Daviey> SpamapS: does it change charm format at all?
<Daviey> hallyn: :(
<hallyn> but, i guess it can go in after next freeze if need be
<Daviey> hallyn: can you keep me posted on trajectory ?
<SpamapS> Daviey: no, but a bootstrapped env from the current one will fail to launch once the distro is updated because of the changes which allow you to reboot machines.
<hallyn> Daviey: ok
<Daviey> smoser: Do you know if the cloud locale image issue was resolved now?
<Daviey> SpamapS: ok
<smoser> not resolved.
<smoser> its working as expected.
<SpamapS> Daviey: the charm spec has not changed, but juju is more strict on types .. so if there are string type config items that have boolean or int defaults, that will fail...
<Daviey> smoser: Yes, the bug is bugging as expected.
<smoser> i left that in utlemming's hands.
<smoser> there is good explanation (i think) in his MP at https://code.launchpad.net/~utlemming/cloud-init/cloud-init.lc_all/+merge/97768
<Daviey> I need to follow up with infinity about bug 759545.. would really like to get that at beta2-ish
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 759545 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "user prompted to update unmodified grub configuration during Ubuntu server upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759545
<Daviey> Okay... Any other bugs which MUST be resolved before release?
<Daviey> (that are not being tracked)
<Daviey> (final release)
<hallyn> final release?
<zul> i just got bitten by this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/936667
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 936667 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Upstart early job logging causes boot failure for systems with no initramfs (error is "No available ptys")" [High,Confirmed]
<Daviey> hallyn: You know we release this stuff, right? :)
<hallyn> doh
<Daviey> jodh: how is bug 936667 looking?
<smoser> zul, that has a solution, right?
<zul> smoser: it has a bzr branch attached to it
<smoser> maybe we just need to get james to poke at it.
<smoser> right.
<Daviey> james = jodh
<Daviey> i guess jodh is afk.
<smoser> (but if you're running into it, zul, you're doing it wrong ... you shouldn't be using the tarball cloud images on openstack)
<Daviey> Okay... a new addition this meeting....  BLUEPRINT TIME \o/
<zul> smoser: gah?
<smoser> use the full disk images.
<smoser> or just type 'cloud-publish-ubuntu'
<zul> ok
<smoser> err... i guess you have to add '--disk'
<Daviey> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/#Servercloud
<arosales> How should we step through the blueprints?
<Daviey> zul: does openvswitch still need to be in main?
<arosales> Priority and Completing?
<jodh> Daviey: it's fixed in upstream. will hopefully get into Ubuntu Thu/Fri, but may be safer to say Monday as updating init on Friday isn't optimal ;-)
<zul> Daviey:  no i dont think so
<Daviey> arosales: want to take this?
<Daviey> jodh: Sounds too conservative to me... :)  if it compiles, ship it, right?
<jodh> Daviey: errrr...
<arosales> Daviey: sure, just want to discuss how we should identify the blueprints we should discuss here
<arosales> I am looking at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> and sorting by Priority and Completion
<Daviey> arosales: go for it :)
<arosales> roger that
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-orchestra
<arosales> 50% Essential
<arosales> roaksoax: working on MIRs?
<roaksoax> arosales: when we MIR maas, we'll mir those dependencies
<arosales> roaksoax: ok
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack
<arosales> zul:  Daviey: looks like packaging is in progress
<arosales> also waiting on some MIRs, correct?
<Daviey> arosales: yes
<Daviey> that is the primary risk atm
<zul> arosales: right
<arosales> ok
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-qa-standard-sru-testing
<arosales> 0% Essential
<Daviey> 'Essential' :)
<arosales> looks like qa team mostly though
 * arosales looking at Highs
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-hdp-hadoop
<arosales> I think jamespage is making good progress here with BigTop
<jamespage> I'm likely to land hadoop 1.0.2 and hbase 0.92.1 into PPA's in the next 24 hrs or so
<jamespage> but other than that looking OK
<arosales> cool, thanks jamespage
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-cloud-portal-growth
<arosales> I think smoser and utlemming have been working on updating the cloud image pages.
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-charms
<SpamapS> arosales: I believe that is more about cloud.ubuntu.com
<arosales> SpamapS: ah, ok
<smoser> yeah, i have not done anythign on cloud.ubuntu.com, but utlemming did make cloud-images.ubuntu.com look purdy
<arosales> Daviey: is the charms also blocking on MIRs?
<arosales> Daviey: same thing with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-openstack-testing
<arosales> I think utlemming had a few todos on cloud.ubuntu.com, I'll catch up with him later
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-juju-charm-testing
<Daviey> arosales: no
<arosales> m_3: SpamapS: how is testing against different providers going?
<Daviey> arosales: charms are irrelevant to MIR/archive work
<SpamapS> arosales: everything is stalled on merging my JUJU_DEFAULT_NS changes into juju
<arosales> Looks like adam_g (who is away) has some todos for charming
<arosales> on openstack
<Daviey> arosales: I'll dig through them later with him.
<SpamapS> Went from a one line change to parsing out series, user and schema.. kind of got ridiculous
<arosales> ok
<SpamapS> so hazmat has taken that on
<SpamapS> hopefully Atlas doesn't shrug ;)
<arosales> SpamapS: any eta on getting that in?
<arosales> from hazmat?
<SpamapS> arosales: no
<arosales> ok
<arosales> :-(
<SpamapS> I'm staying out of their hair until subordinates land
<SpamapS> arosales: I can do it with a wrapper.. so I"m not totally blocked
<SpamapS> arosales: and that spec doesn't really have any time pressure
<m_3> arosales: just starting testing against other provider today... summit's pertty much wrapped... yay!
<arosales> good to hear :-)
<arosales> that covers the high and essentials
 * arosales skimming mediums . .  
<arosales> Any other blueprints others would like to discuss?
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-cloud-power-management
<arosales> has a few remaining todos for aquette
<arosales> Daviey: progress ok on that one?
<Daviey> arosales: no
<Daviey> arosales: mostly dropped
<arosales> defer?
<Daviey> arosales: an excellent candidate for next cycle tho :)
<arosales> ok
<Daviey> arosales: Yes, but i wanted to speak to the spec owner first.
<arosales> Any other blueprints?
<Daviey> Nothing to declare.
<arosales> Daviey:  sounds good
<arosales> ok, those are the ones that jumped out at me.
<Daviey> thanks arosales
<Daviey> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> Too early to mention openstack summit?
<arosales> POSSCon
<arosales> I think jcastro is going to be there
<arosales> m_3 came back from MountainWestruby
<Daviey> 16th-20th April, Many people will be in San Fransisco, for Openstack Design Summit and Conference
<Daviey> any others?
<Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<Daviey> How is our QA looking?
<Daviey> jamespage: Openstack QA lab back to live 'n kicking?
<jamespage> Daviey: almost
<Daviey> jamespage: ETA?
<jamespage> hopefully today
<Daviey> jamespage: \o/
<jamespage> :-)
<Daviey> Anything else relevant for QA at this part?
<Daviey> (smoke testing would be appreciated by all, as we run up to B2)
<Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<Daviey> hey smb o/
<smb> hi
<Daviey> smb: How is our lovely kernel?
<Daviey> smoser: Is this your section?
<smb> Daviey, Always geting better
<Daviey> smb: \o/
<smoser> i dont reallyhave any thing for smb
<smb> Not much from me either
<smoser> although, i bothered hiim about a system with btfs
<smb> Just one note
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipxe/+bug/948323
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948323 in ipxe (Ubuntu) "Rom images for e1000 and ne2k missing vendor and device id" [Low,Confirmed]
<Daviey> smb: Did you have a chance to look at bug 960311?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960311 in linux (Ubuntu) "Networking on Dell PowerEdge R300 with Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express is not functional" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960311
<smb> Think the change is in our delta and maybe lynxman could verify that...
<smoser> generally, i would like someone from the kernel team to look at why a system is so slow during 'apt-get upgrade' usin btrfs root. (ie, 180 packags install took like 100 minutes , after download).
<Daviey> smb / hallyn: We've gone our own way with ipxe...
<Daviey> we have a newer version than Debian, and i suspect they might not have that bug
<smb> Daviey, yes and I deffered until we have more info
<SpamapS> smb: try it with 'eatmydata' .. probably fsync problems
<Daviey> smb: If you require more support to get this in, give me a shout at any time.. ok?
 * smb avoids btrfs actually
<smb> This helps too... :-P
<Daviey> heh
<Daviey> smb: Did you manage to look at the bug i punted you shortly before the meeting?
<hallyn> Daviey: smb: oh, you're saying we should go ahead and push?
<hallyn> (For ipxe)
<hallyn> if so, smb, please feel free.  I trust you've done gobloads of testing :)
<smb> hallyn, Maybe not as indipendant but when ther eis something anyway
<Daviey> hallyn: I think so... based on the fact we already have a huge delta.
<smb> Daviey, already answered that in the stream :)
<smb> Daviey, I looked at the bug but it has not much info in it
<smb> Daviey, Beside a message saying likely a firmware issue
<smb> Daviey, Would be nice to know whether it ever worked
<Daviey> otp
<Daviey> smb: right!
<Daviey> Thanks smb !
<Daviey> anything else for kernel?
<smb> hallyn, I did some test compiles and things seemed to move into the right places (ipxe)
<smb> And hope nothing else depends on the other link -names (the names for the kvm part remain the samee)
<hallyn> smb: please feel free to push.  you have the rights?
<smb> hallyn, still no ;)
<Daviey> smb: you suck :)
<Daviey> smb: Get upload access! :)
<smb> Daviey, I know, not to be trusted for such things
<Daviey> heh
<Daviey> incorrect.
<Daviey> right, thanks smb for giving us a lovely kernel
<smb> Daviey, I assume the path to become core-dev is to ask people to sponsor so often until they become bored and vote for you... ;)
<Daviey> smb: :)
<Daviey> okay, best move on.. thanls
<Daviey> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<Daviey> Hmm.. moving on
<Daviey> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> zentyal has been accepted into precise!
<Daviey> \o/
<Daviey> Good work jamespage
<jamespage> EOM
<Daviey> anything else?
<jamespage> good work bencer who did the packaing
<Daviey> \o/
<SpamapS> yah, hooray for zentyal!
<Daviey> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> Tuesday 2012-03-27 at 1600 UTC
<Daviey> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 20 16:57:31 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-16.05.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-16.05.html
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 20 17:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<kamal> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<cking> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> P/omap4: a new kernel (3.2.0-1409.12) is out - 3.2.11 topped with latest TI BSP.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.04-beta-2.html
<ogasawara> || apw        || hardware-p-kernel-boot                || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-config-review       || 1 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||            || hardware-p-kernel-delta-review        || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-2 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<apw> :)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprint: hardware-p-kernel-power-management (cking)
<cking> nothing to report this week
<cking> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Precise Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We intend to uploaded the 3.2.0-19.31 kernel today.  This upload
<ogasawara> contains a rebase to v3.2.12, disables CONFIG_DRM_PSB_CDV, and provides
<ogasawara> a necessary fix for pre-core99 UP machines which then allows us to
<ogasawara> proceed with removing the non-smp PowerPC flavor.  This will be the last
<ogasawara> upload prior to Beta-2 Freeze this Thurs, March 22.  Any uploads after
<ogasawara> that are subject to approval of the release team.  Beta-2 is next Thurs,
<ogasawara> Mar 29.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 22 - Beta-2 Freeze (~2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Mar 29 - Beta-2 (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> Currently we have 72 CVEs on our radar, with one new CVE added this week.
<apw> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<apw>  
<apw> Broadly the backlog is unchanged this week:
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Oneiric/Natty/Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (Mar. 06):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.100 - Regression testing; A single CVE.
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-40.87  - Ready for -updates; CVEs, eCryptfs, NFSv4, block, and other misc. fixes.
<bjf>  * Maverick - 2.6.35-32.67  - Ready for -updates; A single CVE.
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-13.57  - Ready for -updates; CVEs, eCryptfs and some other fixes.
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-16.29   - Regression testing; CVEs and 3 stable upstream releases.
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 20 17:06:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-17.00.html
<cking> blink and it's over
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> jsalisbury, thanks for running the meeting
<brendand> Daviey, looks like bug 960311 is happening with Oneiric too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 960311 in linux (Ubuntu) "Networking on Dell PowerEdge R300 with Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5722 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express is not functional" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/960311
<brendand> wrong room
<czajkowski> greg-g: itnet7 huats xdatap1
 * greg-g waves
<czajkowski> SergioMeneses: aloha
<xdatap1> hello everybody
<greg-g> Hello there everyone, lets get the LoCo Council meeting started!
<greg-g> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 20 20:01:27 2012 UTC.  The chair is greg-g. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: ping
<thelinuxer> hi czajkowski
<greg-g> We only have one thing on the agenda today, and that is the approval of the Egyptian LoCo
<greg-g> hi thelinuxer
<czajkowski> anyone else here from the team
<thelinuxer> hi greg-g
<huats> hello
<greg-g> do you mind doing a quick introduction of the Egyptian LoCo?
<thelinuxer> yes ashams MohamedAlaa98
<thelinuxer> greg-g: of course
<greg-g> #topic Egypt LoCo Approval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Egypt LoCo Approval
<thelinuxer> the team started to be really active almost 2 years ago
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
<SergioMeneses> hi guys
<thelinuxer> we made our main objective to introduce more people to free software
<thelinuxer> and we decided that ubuntu was the right way to go
<greg-g> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/ApprovalApplication
<thelinuxer> we had several install fests
<thelinuxer> workshops
<thelinuxer> and of course we do support on our different channels, IRC, Faceboook ...etc
<greg-g> there was a choice? :)
<SergioMeneses> thelinuxer, nice pictures!
<greg-g> (of Ubuntu vs ???) ;)
<thelinuxer> SergioMeneses: thanks check out more on facebook
<czajkowski> lovely application folks well done
<czajkowski> does make things a lot easier!
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: thanks
<thelinuxer> yes we had a choice :)
<SergioMeneses> they have a good number of ubuntu members
<thelinuxer> but ubuntu was winning in every way :)
<itnet7> Very concise, I really enjoyed reading about what the Egypt team has been doing
<greg-g> thelinuxer: :) I know I know, we all do. I'm not always serious in meetings :)
<thelinuxer> itnet7: thanks :)
<thelinuxer> are there any questions ?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: so tell us how things are done in your tema
<czajkowski> *team
<czajkowski> how do you organise events?
<czajkowski> any issues you've come across and how you've delt with them
<thelinuxer> yes of course there are always issues with venues
<thelinuxer> but most of this is solved because we have so many active members in different universities
<thelinuxer> which is really a good place for our events
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> true
 * greg-g nods to issues associated with venues
<thelinuxer> mostly to organize an event we set a date for it like a week after the release date
<thelinuxer> then we start to search for an appropriate venues
 * greg-g nods
<SergioMeneses> thelinuxer, I like the new structure, it's working now?
<thelinuxer> we start calling for volunteers for the help desk activities and FAQs and giving presentations
<thelinuxer> we are actually test driving it right now
<thelinuxer> some bugs have been reported on launchpad
<thelinuxer> but it's not 100% active
<thelinuxer> still some rough edges :)
<SergioMeneses> thelinuxer, ok!...
<thelinuxer> SergioMeneses: :)
<czajkowski> you do seem very active my only concern is many members being from unis, will they still be involved once they finish and how to get non uni folks invovled
<thelinuxer> we are trying our best, but the fact is if we get for students involved then this technology choice would adopted by companies
<thelinuxer> and hence we can make real change
<czajkowski> great stuf
<czajkowski> I've no other questions
<thelinuxer> we also have a couple of members who has graduated and they are still active
<xdatap1> thelinuxer, I like the idea of an orientation session. Could you tell us more about it. How do it works? Is it online or face-face activity?
<itnet7> Definitely true thelinuxer
<greg-g> very good.
<thelinuxer> xdatap1: sure
<czajkowski> I will say I'm not gone on the use of n00b would perfer to see the word new user. but that's my only comment
<greg-g> #voters czajkowski itnet7 huats greg-g xdatap1
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski greg-g huats itnet7 xdatap1
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: sure we can think about another geeky term :)
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, I'm agree
<greg-g> agreed re "n00b" :)
<greg-g> alright, I think we ready to vote!
<xdatap1> greg-g, wait, I asked a question
<greg-g> ah, yes, please do
<thelinuxer> xdatap1: the session should includedfull details about how the team works
<thelinuxer> and what's the different activities people can get involved in
<thelinuxer> if it's offline then it would be a normal presentation so the new folks would meet the team
<thelinuxer> and if online we can use IRC, Google+ or whatever platform we choose
<thelinuxer> )done answering the question :
<thelinuxer> :)*
<greg-g> :)
<xdatap1> thelinuxer, thanks, it's a nice idea, congrats
<greg-g> any other questions? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Hard to read people's faces over IRC :)
<thelinuxer> xdatap1: thank you very much
<itnet7> good here
<xdatap1> thelinuxer, last info, just a curiosity
<thelinuxer> xdatap1: please do
<xdatap1> thelinuxer, egypt is a very big country. Where are from most of the members? Are them mainly from big cities or do you have people from all around?
<thelinuxer> i am happy you asked that
<thelinuxer> our biggest governorates are Alexandria and Cairo
<thelinuxer> a great number of members are from these 2
<thelinuxer> but also there is a small governorate called Mansoura
<thelinuxer> some people from Mansoura joined the team
<thelinuxer> and one of our very active members is originally from Mansoura
 * xdatap1 checking the map :)
<thelinuxer> they are planning to start a team there but it hasn't been officially on
<thelinuxer> and they were the ones who gave us a chance to participate in OSDay in Mansoura
<xdatap1> cool! Thanks thelinuxer!
<thelinuxer> xdatap1: yw :)
<greg-g> awesome
<xdatap1> greg-g, I'm ready to vote
<greg-g> alrighty, I think we're all ready then
<greg-g> #vote Egypt LoCo Approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: Egypt LoCo Approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<greg-g> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from greg-g
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<SergioMeneses> +1
<xdatap1> +1 keep up the good work
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work received from xdatap1
<czajkowski> +1 well done
<meetingology> +1 well done received from czajkowski
<paultag> 20:11 < greg-g> #voters czajkowski itnet7 huats greg-g xdatap1
<paultag> you missed SergioMeneses
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<huats> great work
<greg-g> whoops!
<paultag> :)
<greg-g> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Egypt LoCo Approval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<huats> I realy like the  application
<SergioMeneses> I see
<thelinuxer> thanks everyone :)
<xdatap1> congratulation thelinuxer !
<greg-g> oh well, Egypt still was approved without SergioMeneses' vote :)
<thelinuxer> huats: that's Menopia's work our designer :)
<Menopia> thanks everyone :)
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, :D
<greg-g> great job thelinuxer and everyone else in the Egypt team
<itnet7> Awesome job, way to go!!
<greg-g> SergioMeneses: my apologies, my second faux pas during the meeting ;)
<thelinuxer> Thanks again I will go spread the news :)
<czajkowski> well done folks
<SergioMeneses> thelinuxer, congratulations
<greg-g> is there any other business for this LoCo Council meeting?
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, don't worry!
<czajkowski> and again if you could use another word for n00b like new user that would be best
<greg-g> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<thelinuxer> SergioMeneses: thanks :)
<czajkowski> we have a new wiki page created
<czajkowski> for approval/re approval process
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: we will reconsider the names for sure
<czajkowski> it would be good to get that out there and possibly ask for translations
<czajkowski> so we need to A) update our wiki page
<greg-g> #topic approval/reapproval process
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: approval/reapproval process
<czajkowski> b) post to loco contacts
<czajkowski> c) add to a blog
<czajkowski> d) translate
<greg-g> alright, who wants to edit the wiki and who can do the announcements?
<xdatap1> czajkowski, +1 it looks like a good plan
<czajkowski> it's basically copy n paste from sergio and pop into our wiki
<SergioMeneses> we have to chage this page too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamApprovalGuidelines
<greg-g> so, just that page and this one, right https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoTeamReApproval ?
<greg-g> SergioMeneses: mind updating the wiki sense you have the wiki text, right?
<czajkowski> yes
<greg-g> s/sense/since/
<czajkowski> which does make sense
<czajkowski> :)
<greg-g> #action SergioMeneses to update LoCo Council wiki pages with updated text
<meetingology> ACTION: SergioMeneses to update LoCo Council wiki pages with updated text
<greg-g> thanks SergioMeneses  ;)
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, jaja
<SergioMeneses> oks
<xdatap1> thanks SergioMeneses  :)
<czajkowski> once there're done I can ask dpm to get the translations in order
<greg-g> alright, blogger, anyone want to blog? I can if no one else does
<greg-g> czajkowski: cool, thanks
<czajkowski> greg-g: I'll add it to the loco council blog
<greg-g> #action czajkowski to ask dpm for translation help
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski to ask dpm for translation help
<czajkowski> once I find my login
<czajkowski> :)
<SergioMeneses> czajkowski, :D
<greg-g> #action czajkowski will add the announcement to the Council blog
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski will add the announcement to the Council blog
<greg-g> czajkowski: do you want me to write a quick "Here's our updated policy..." post you can copy paste?
<greg-g> "sure"
<greg-g> #action greg-g to write a quick post re the updated policy document
<meetingology> ACTION: greg-g to write a quick post re the updated policy document
<greg-g> I think that's it for that topic
<greg-g> anything else?
<YoBoY> can I suggest you to keep the list of the LC members on a separate page to let translator include this list and not "translate it" ? it can help to keep all the page updated
<greg-g> YoBoY: yeah, not sure why we're listed there, honestly. It might be an <<include>>'d page anyway
<xdatap1> we can keep them in a separate page and then include it
<greg-g> (oh, its not)
<czajkowski> greg-g: sure :)
<YoBoY> greg-g: there or on other pages. can be usefull on lot of other pages :)
<SergioMeneses> the list is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil
<greg-g> xdatap1: mind doing that? making it a separate page that we include where appropriate?
<xdatap1> I can fix it, no problem
<greg-g> cool, thanks
<greg-g> #action xdatap1 to separate out the list of Council members to separate page and <<include>> where appropriate
<meetingology> ACTION: xdatap1 to separate out the list of Council members to separate page and <<include>> where appropriate
<greg-g> anything else?
<greg-g> going once...
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, continue
<greg-g> going twice
<greg-g> going a third time... :)
<greg-g> alright, thanks everyone for showing up!
<itnet7> :-)
<czajkowski> nope all good
<czajkowski> thanks greg-g
<greg-g> have a great rest of the day!
<greg-g> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 20 20:31:48 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-20.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-20-20.01.html
<czajkowski> greg-g: update the wiki and the team report :)
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, great work!
<xdatap1> thanks everybody!
<greg-g> czajkowski: sorry, no more #actions can be added :P
<greg-g> czajkowski: will do. :) Mind if it waits until tomorrow?
<czajkowski> nope no worries
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-21
<orionsonofneptun> anyone there
<thelinuxer> hi czajkowski
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: what I was asking if there were some log on launchpad where I can see who did what ?
<thelinuxer> actions like adding  a mailing list, changing team details, approving members ..etc
<thelinuxer> czajkowski: please ping me when u read this
<czajkowski> thelinuxer: this is the wrong channel can you please join #launchpad
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu qa community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 21 16:03:51 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:
 * balloons waves
<balloons> who's all about?
<astraljava> o/
<balloons> ok, well let's get started..
<balloons> hopefully there are a few other lurkers..
<astraljava> It'll be a short one if there aren't...
<balloons> [TOPIC] Previous actions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  Previous actions
<balloons> indeed ;-)
<balloons> ACTION: phillw to fix feb 29th log, merge them, and make the regex for meetings page display all the logs again
<balloons> Looks like phillw is still working on that as the page is still not showing the new logs
<balloons> I'll re-add it for him, I know he couldn't make it today
<balloons> [ACTION] phillw to fix feb 29th log, merge them, and make the regex for meetings page display all the logs again
<meetingology> ACTION: phillw to fix feb 29th log, merge them, and make the regex for meetings page display all the logs again
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to poll community members on preferred meeting day and time
<balloons> This was done, and the results are in and can be found here.. http://whenisgood.net/mzs4etp/results/x83kbr
<balloons> It seems like overall people would prefer something earlier in the day
<balloons> thoughts?
<astraljava> For eastern people (from GMT), it might prove to become difficult, if jobs don't allow participating during the working day.
<balloons> err.. maybe I'm reading this wrong :-)
<balloons> yea.. those numbers are confusing.. it's not the number of people who can make.. it's showing the number of people who can't
<astraljava> I don't even know how to use it. :)
<balloons> ??? that's really odd
<astraljava> It is odd, I agree.
<balloons> it is showing that this time isn't a particuarly good one
<astraljava> Ahh... I see, when you move your mouse on the grid, it shows ya who feel that time to be either suitable or not so.
<balloons> yea.. mouseover helps
<balloons> clunky, but whatver
<balloons> so.. yea, if it's just the two of us.. what do you think astraljava ?
<astraljava> Why can't there be a listing for most suitable times or something?
 * balloons doesn't know. 
<balloons> I tried to find a useful "find a time" web service
<astraljava> balloons: Best times for me would be after our office hours, provided I find a job with office hours, but I assume as much.
<balloons> but the typical ones didn't support the multiple time zone and generic days
<astraljava> So it'd mean about 3 pm. GMT and later.
<balloons> we have a nice slot @ 7 pm UTC on Tuesday
<balloons> both 6 pm and 7 pm UTC on tuesday many folks can make it
<astraljava> Yeah, it should be fairly usable, provided you have a bit of time to spend on it.
<balloons> basically 6-9 UTC on tuesday looks the most open
<astraljava> Sounds good to me.
<balloons> so, we can pick from this feedback then, or we can poll (again) with a couple specific options that were best
<astraljava> Either way, I'm good.
<balloons> I think since not many folks could make it, I'd still like to hear some feedback on the timeslot.. let's chose Tuesday @ 7 pm UTC and see what everyone thinks
<astraljava> Well if you're gonna have another poll, then better give it a couple of options.
<astraljava> We can spend some time on the results of the first, and find out the most popular, and suggest those again.
<balloons> well I meant not polling again
<balloons> but that's the question.. I could pull the top 3 or 5 out of here and poll with those day times and see
<astraljava> Oh okay, I misunderstood the "see what everyone thinks" part, then.
<balloons> yea, sorry
<balloons> I'm thinking aloud to some extent
<balloons> :-)
<astraljava> Heheh. :) I do it a lot, as well.
<balloons> So, poll again with top time slots? or just declare a time and see if it works out better
<astraljava> Yeah, if we're not in a hurry for the change, I'd suggest polling again with the top 5 or so.
<balloons> ok, I'll do a writeup and include the top times
<astraljava> Sounds good.
<balloons> [action] balloons to send results of poll and provide the most suitable timeframes for one last round of polling.
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to send results of poll and provide the most suitable timeframes for one last round of polling.
<balloons> k, last item from befor
<balloons> ACTION: balloons to share qa team proposal to mailing list
<balloons> I did this and got some good feedback... Actually I think I need to respond to a post, if I remember correctly
<balloons> I spoke with the newly forming u+1 team as part of sharing the plan and they had some suggestions on the proposal
<balloons> anything you wish to discuss about astraljava ?
<astraljava> Are we already into the flavors section?
<astraljava> Or do you mean in general?
<balloons> I mean did you have any feedback on the proposal
<balloons> we were simply discussing the last action, sorry :-0
<balloons> if not, we'll move on to updates
<astraljava> Ahh.. no, I have missed that email, sadly.
<balloons> ahh.. well, here's a link to it again for the logs: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2012-March/002044.html
<balloons> let's move on then
<balloons> [topic] ubuntu updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  ubuntu updates
<balloons> A quick ubuntu update is prep is going on for beta2.. The checkbox manual app testing is going to occur again with some more apps and test coverage.
<balloons> An installer sprint is also occurring right now and we as a community are helping out by doing specific iso testing to verify bugs/regressions have been fixed by the dev team
<balloons> [topic] other ubuntu flavor updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  other ubuntu flavor updates
<balloons> astraljava, care to give us an update?
<astraljava> Sure.
<astraljava> Studio has had some trouble with the images lately.
<astraljava> ubiquity would hang, and the installer process would not finish, then.
<astraljava> But just recently cjwatson fixed one casper bug about it, so we're waiting to see progress on today's images.
<astraljava> Otherwise, we still need an FFe for better theming of the live session/ubiquity.
<astraljava> Because we're bringing in a new package.
<astraljava> But that's about it for Studio.
<astraljava> ..
<balloons> good to hear your ubiquity issues are getting some <3
<astraljava> Yep. Thank $deity for the rockstars in our community. :)
<balloons> ;-) Alright, in keeping with our quickness theme, I will move on to the last topic, conveniently titled 'other topics' :-0
<balloons> [topic] other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu qa community Meeting | Current topic:  other topics
<balloons> I don't have anything else to chat about today, astraljava anything you wanted to bring up specifically?
<astraljava> As the head of testing and QA for Xubuntu announced leaving the project after this cycle, I just had a chat with the leader of Xubuntu.
<astraljava> So I am to announce stuff re: QA for Xubuntu in the future, too.
 * balloons didn't see that
<astraljava> I think it only arrived on Xubuntu's mailing lists.
<astraljava> But am not sure.
<balloons> ahh
<astraljava> So, if you keep track on the contact people for flavors, you can fill me in on Xubuntu as well.
<balloons> i do, and noted.. I'll add you for xubuntu ;-)
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<astraljava> No other business from me.
<balloons> thank you.. Alrighty, I think that concludes everything then.. hopefully this change can see our next meeting with a few more people ;-)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 21 16:34:22 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-21-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-21-16.03.html
<balloons> thanks for coming astraljava!
<astraljava> Thanks for chairing!
<gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 21 20:04:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<gilir> hi :)
<phillw> o/
<jmarsden|work> o/
<balloons> o/
<gilir> agenda, still at the same place : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
<gilir> no action item from previous meeting
<gilir> I'll skip point from people not here, to speed up the meeting a bit
 * phillw loves being 1st up!
<gilir> :)
<gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
<phillw> The Ubiquity (installer) sprint (get rid of as many bugs as possible is the shortest time) is now drawing to a close, they have nailed several bugs that really annoy / break. The final remix with the results will be in tomorrows build.
<phillw> I've asked balloons to attend in case he has something extra to add.
<phillw> There was also raised the fact that we have bugs going back > 90 days that have not lapsed.
<amjjawad> Hi
<amjjawad> is there a meeting?
<gilir> any decision concerning bug 775124 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 775124 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity should have a command line option to override the free space check" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775124
<phillw> I'll ask how best to address clearing these off
<phillw> gilir: afaik, it is an active work in progress.
<phillw> gilir: you will have seen my and others comments about it.
<gilir> this bug block installation with live ISO of any 4Gb hard-drive netbook, which is not so unusual hardware :)
<phillw> gilir: I did make that clear on my submission to the bug :)
<gilir> great, I'll wait to see the progress, thanks :)
<amjjawad> phillw: hi, I'm late sorry ... the meeting already started right?
<phillw> gilir: as an MOTU, and 'boss' of lubuntu you have more chance of creating such a fuss that they eventually give in & accept that it is wrong.
<phillw> amjjawad: is okay, still on QA
<phillw> stuff
<amjjawad> ok phillw thanks :)
<phillw> gilir: can I please confirm that lubuntu is now non-pae by default?
<gilir> phillw, yes, it should :)
<amjjawad> gilir: hi, if it's PAE will that be a huge problem?
<phillw> okies, just so we can set up the wiki for it
<amjjawad> coz no one replied my email yet
<gilir> I didn't test it yet, but if it's not so far on a daily, it's a bug
<phillw> gilir: just as well we had some non-pae testers working on it :)
<gilir> amjjawad, what do you mean by problem ?
<amjjawad> if Lubuntu follow Ubuntu and go for PAE Kernel so will that be a problem?
<amjjawad> I sent an email already about that
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: It will be a problem for people with non-PAE CPUs if the kernel requires PAE...
<phillw> gilir: I believe  it landed, but have not had chance to fully catch up with the email section of 'non-pae testing' on lubuntu-qa lists
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: so they won't be able to boot?
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: correct
<amjjawad> i see, thanks a lot jmarsden|work  :)
<amjjawad> and if someone wants to add the PAE support, it's piece of cake, correct? jmarsden|work ?
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: It's a kernel compilation option.
<phillw> amjjawad: I did comment on how to add PAE for those who have > 3.2GB RAM. I'm just awaiting confirmation that the instructions from a couple of years ago still work.
<amjjawad> ok, thanks guys, I will wait for a confirmation then :)
<amjjawad> quick silly Q ... the best thing for testing is the daily build or the milestone build? I guess the daily one right?
<gilir> the daily is better, because it's the most up-to-date
<phillw> amjjawad: depends on what you wish to test, see me after the meeting & I'll be happy to explain anything on our Testing wiki page you do not understand.
<amjjawad> ok phillw thanks ... thanks too gilir  :)
<phillw> amjjawad: if you do not understand it, it needs to me made more clear.
<gilir> anything to add for QA phillw ?
<phillw> gilir: I think that's all from QA
<gilir> thanks phillw :)
<amjjawad> if Karl is not here, I will take care of Comms Updates if I may :)
<gilir> Unit193 seems away, so yes, going to comm team update :)
<gilir> #topic amjjawad Weekly report - Update from comms team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  amjjawad Weekly report - Update from comms team
<amjjawad> Ok, so long story short ... I'm sure everyone is aware of my last email ... Comms Team needs an access to ALL Lubuntu Social Networking Pages/Group/Etc
<amjjawad> beside, WOW Lubuntu must start action and be something like OMG Ubuntu
<amjjawad> Also, I need someone who is GOOD in making YouTube Videos as I want to make some nice stuff about Lubuntu ;)
<amjjawad> so 3 main points from Comms Team
<gilir> thanks amjjawad :)
<amjjawad> 1- An Active Member of Comms Team must have access to ALL the pages on Fb and Google+ and I have asked for that many times ago!
<phillw> amjjawad: I saw leszec join. he is the master of vids.
<jmarsden|work> Comms Team needs X: so go ahead and get X, do whatever it takes to acquire X... do you have a plan to acquire "access to all Lubuntu Social Networking Pages...", and to "start action" for WOW Lubuntu, and to find someone with appropriate video creation skills?  Stating a need is not really a plan for action...
<amjjawad> phillw: if he has time then that would be super great. We must be on everywhere ... youtube, facebook, etc etc
<amjjawad> WOW Lubuntu is my project but I need someone to help me with it. As for having access, I have access to Lubuntu Google+ Page and Lubuntu Group but NOT the Facebook Page that has more than 4K users
<amjjawad> Comms Team has 12 memebrs if I'm not wrong and WE must work as a TEAM.
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: So, how are you planning to gain such access to the Facebook page?
<amjjawad> Time here is short so I can't explain too much ... that will be for a mailing list :)
<amjjawad> well, the admin of that page need to give me that access :(
<gilir> amjjawad, for the access to the accounts, it's in progress, just have technical issue on twitter side
<amjjawad> I'm not an admin
<amjjawad> I'm not talking about twitter, I don't care much about it. I care more about Fb
<amjjawad> it has 4000 users and I need to work on them
<amjjawad> I need to be as close as possible to them. Not me, Comms Team as a whole must be close to those users
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: So is the Facebook page admin here?  if not, do you know who it is and have you contacted them and asked for access?
<amjjawad> Yes, gilir is one :D
<jmarsden|work> OK, so sounds like that is taken care of, it is in progress.
<amjjawad> Not really I'm afraid.
<jmarsden|work> gilir: do you have a time when you will be able to get amjjawad the access he needs on Facebook?
<amjjawad> It's ONE click away and I have no idea what it did take so long :(
<amjjawad> why*
<gilir> jmarsden|work, I already added it on my list to things to do
<gilir> just wanted to solve also the twitter stuff
 * phillw my overall wish is that Lubuntu has ONE fb page. Concentrate our energies there. 
<amjjawad> I don't mind controlling Two. I'm very active on F
<phillw> gilir: that was a change in the API for twitter for the drupal site.
<amjjawad> Fb
<amjjawad> those who added me can see me there all the time
<phillw> gilir: mario has asked if we have someone who can get it working again.
<amjjawad> So, gilir i will be waiting :(
<amjjawad> let's do the fb then worry about Twitter
<amjjawad> and PLEASE don't add any feed to the website, that won't be nice IMHO. Just my thought about it
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; what working again on the website?
<MrChrisDruif> The twitter stream?
<gilir> #action Add amjjawad to lubuntu fb page
<meetingology> ACTION: Add amjjawad to lubuntu fb page
<MrChrisDruif> (Well, stream?)
<phillw> amjjawad: we did it as a test. it didn't work. The twitter feed is to allow registered people to tweet.
 * gilir add the action, so amjjawad can blame me if I don't do it next week
<amjjawad> phillw: ok but hope the final website version will have no feed neither for twitter nor fb.
<amjjawad> gilir: come on :P
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; why not?
<amjjawad> so, for the guy who is good in YouTube, I will search for him/her on the mailing list. As for WOW Lubuntu Project, I will send an email to later on
<phillw> gilir: as you said, we need to get this nailed down before 12.04 launches... the clock is ticking.
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I don't want to blame anyone but I will keep reminding though :P
<MrChrisDruif> Why not have a "Social" page on there so people can see some of the stuff we do and how people like it?
<amjjawad> oh you mean why for the website?
 * phillw can we get back on 
<phillw> Agenda?
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; yup
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; sure
<amjjawad> I'm just saying ... no need for feed streem. that will take so much work plus that will require a real time stuff
<phillw> amjjawad: comms team ar the there to sort that :)
<amjjawad> I'm no expret in web desginign but being on fb which is using a real time thing ... that IMHO will take so much time and effort which is not needed for now
<amjjawad> Ok so let's keep that chat on the mailing list :) I'm done here
<gilir> ok, thanks amjjawad :)
<amjjawad> gilir: you welcome ;)
<gilir> #topic amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  amjjawad - Weekly report - Update from Support Team
<gilir> I don't know if the support team is active again
<amjjawad> Oh yes
<amjjawad> I'm here :D
<gilir> If you don't have anything to say, we can pass this topic :)
<amjjawad> However, nothing so far. I'm focusing on Comms bcoz it got re-activated again
<amjjawad> sure, pass to the other one
<gilir> ok :)
<gilir> #topic gilir- Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  gilir- Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
<gilir> it's kernel week :)
<gilir> to confirmed, we have non-pae for i386 by default for 12.04
<amjjawad> so we are following Xubuntu's Steps?
<gilir> also, for powerpc, a switch to smp kernel will be done also
<gilir> but it should not impact hardware support, just maybe a small impact on performance on 1 CPU hardware
<amjjawad> I'm on GRUB2 and the daily build for 20032012 has Generic Kerenl :) I see
<gilir> amjjawad, yes
<phillw> gilir: I think, for lubuntu, that is excellent news.
<gilir> we also finally pushed fixes for the the "empty icons in the systray", please test it :)
 * phillw what, you mean my 3G device will not be a gap any more? :)
<gilir> to finish, I'm working on the ISO sizes, by putting back some languages on the ISOs
<amjjawad> gilir: that bug when you suspend and after that empty spaces will be on systray? I will test that coz I got a test laptop ;)
<gilir> please ping me if you see oversized ISO for daily
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed
<gilir> phillw, that's a different bug, I'm afraid
<amjjawad> it should be 700MB and less, correct?
<gilir> amjjawad, yes and yes
<phillw> gilir: if you can keep the dailies cd sized, that would be one heck of an acheivement
<amjjawad> gilir: thanks :)
<phillw> darn paper cuts :(
<gilir> that's all for me, any questions ?
<amjjawad> Yes please
<amjjawad> I can't run LSC :(
<amjjawad> it crashes once I click on it and it is not loading at all
<amjjawad> Lubuntu 32-bit daily build 20-3-2012
<gilir> amjjawad, please report a bug directly
<amjjawad> ok will do
<amjjawad> is it possible to add "Lock Scree" in Menu?
<amjjawad> Screen*
<phillw> amjjawad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing#Reporting_Bugs
<phillw> amjjawad: requests are requests, bugs are bugs.
<gilir> amjjawad, it's a bit late for 12.04
<amjjawad> gilir: ok :(
<MrChrisDruif> And besides, you can get lock screen with the shutdown menu and with Ctrl + Alt + L I believed
<phillw> amjjawad: we open for requests soon after 12.04 launches. please feel free to request it for 12.10
<MrChrisDruif> With other words amjjawad: make a list ;-)
<amjjawad> I did that for Lubuntu 12.04 long ago but looks like I did not follow the correct approach
<gilir> phillw, we have a lot of work to triage such requests / bugs, the bug tracker is full of them :(
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: no, you can't do that for Lock Screen, you need to configure it ;)
<phillw> amjjawad: well, you now know how to do it :)
<amjjawad> phillw: i don't so i will ask u and u will help ;)
<gilir> amjjawad, the right approcach is the bug report
<amjjawad> which someone will turn it to a wishlist I guess
<gilir> however, we have to clean our bug tracker a bit ...
<phillw> gilir: hence my comment earlier about blitzing the out of date bugs that hang around like a bad smell.
<amjjawad> as I did that with the Clippboard Manager issue
<MrChrisDruif> amjjawad; indeed, you are right: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Guides#I_want_to_bind_a_key_to_lock_my_screen.2C_how_do_I_do_it.3F
<phillw> gilir: as MrChrisDruif has scraped in late (he did let me know) could you give him the #topic?
<gilir> phillw, it's a normal bug triaging process, we just didn't spend time on this recently :(
<gilir> phillw, current topic ? it's in the title of the room, no ?
<gilir> ok, let's move to the last topic, to finsih in time
<phillw> gilir: MrChrisDruifWeekly report - Update from Docs team
<gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, docs don't need much of your time ladies and gents
<gilir> ok, thanks MrChrisDruif :)
<MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, I didn't see any bad links mentioned on the lubuntu-users and lubuntu-wiki mailing-lists so I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp can also be redirected
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: we have some alterations to make over the switch of PAE
<MrChrisDruif> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; I'll get to that later
<gilir> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<MrChrisDruif> And Jonathan I believe send some more human-readable code for removing old kernels
<gilir> any other questions, you have 2 minutes :)
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks gilir, I wasn't done ^_^
<amjjawad> what is the name of the current login manager? it is same as the one in Xubuntu 11.10
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, arf sorry :(
<MrChrisDruif> ^_^
<amjjawad> ok ignore me, MrChrisDruif please go on
<MrChrisDruif> I'll try to update the wiki for removing old kernels asap
<MrChrisDruif> As far as going back to non-pae I'll have to check what needs to be done
<MrChrisDruif> in terms of documentation
<MrChrisDruif> AOB???
<gilir> well, we went to back to the situation we had on 11.10
<MrChrisDruif> So no LightDM?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, I mean, for the non-pae kernel
<MrChrisDruif> Ah, okay
<gilir> we still have lightdm, the same than xubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> And the login manager question of amjjawad, it's still lightdm unless something has changed?
<gilir> amjjawad, ^
<MrChrisDruif> Alrighty
<amjjawad> it does not look like Ubuntu :(
<amjjawad> I mean LightDM
<gilir> amjjawad, yes, because it's another "greeter"
<amjjawad> I see
<amjjawad> and no way to make it just like Ubuntu coz it is too late, right?
<gilir> amjjawad, it's too late, and we have to write a new greeter
<MrChrisDruif> Yup, but maybe it's an idea to post your idea about how the login manager should look to the design team?
<amjjawad> ok, thanks gilir  :)
<gilir> ideas and mockups are always welcome :)
<phillw> gilir: it is possibly worth a mention in the release notea?
<phillw> s/notea/notes
<gilir> phillw, the fact that we are using lightdm ? sure
<amjjawad> with another greeter :)
<gilir> I think I added in a release note for alpha or beta 1
<amjjawad> so everyone will be aware and in the loop ;)
<jmarsden|work> More importantly, is there anything that was easy/obvious how to do/trivial in the previous greeter that is now harder/more obscure/impossible in the new one?  If so, *that* should be documented.
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed, but I'm not informed enough about the big differences between the two login managers
<MrChrisDruif> Except for eye-candy that is ;-)
<gilir> jmarsden|work, the greeter, I don't think so, unless you make theme of LXDM
<gilir> jmarsden|work, the login manager, maybe yes, like the autologin stuff
<jmarsden|work> Documetning "we are now using lightdm" doesn't mean much to novice users.  DOcumenting "to change languages you now need to do THIS instead of THAT" might save some support calls.
<gilir> it's now different
<gilir> the configuration is also completly different than LXDM
<MrChrisDruif> Maybe this is something for the mailing-list?
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, are you aware of any documentation about th elogin manager on Ubuntu ?
<amjjawad> I wish LXDM will be much more better and will back to action in 12.10
<gilir> amjjawad, probbaly not, sharing this type of application which others devs is really nice
<jmarsden|work> amjjawad: "much more better" is pretty subjective... make specific clear suggestions for improvements and they might have a chance to be added to lightdm :)
<MrChrisDruif> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutoLogin#Enabling_AutoLogin_from_command_line
<amjjawad> jmarsden|work: will do my best to do that once I have some time :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, thanks, so it should be the same on lubuntu for 12.04 :)
<MrChrisDruif> Afaict there isn't much help pages about lightdm
<MrChrisDruif> gilir; but the wiki might have more info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LightDM
<jmarsden|work> MrChrisDruif: Sounds like a new "opportunity" for the Docs team :) :)
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, this is more for testing and report bug, not really for users :)
<MrChrisDruif> Indeed
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: go nag the xubuntu people, they went over last release :)
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, I'll see what pleia2 can tell me ^_^
<gilir> phillw, they should share this type of documentation ;)
<phillw> MrChrisDruif: She will give you ever support that she can.
<MrChrisDruif> phillw; I know and she's involved with Xubuntu
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, anything to add for documentation team ?
<MrChrisDruif> I'll see what info we've currently got about LXDM and try to hunt back all that functionality in LightDM and document it
<gilir> MrChrisDruif, thanks, many users asked about this for LXDM, so I'm sure it will be very useful
<MrChrisDruif> I probably think this is a multi-week subject for the docs team (seeing I'm one of the only active ones around)
<phillw> #action MrChrisDruif check to see what community documentation is available for LightDM
<meetingology> ACTION: MrChrisDruif check to see what community documentation is available for LightDM
<gilir> thanks phillw :)
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks buddy ;-)
<phillw> soz MrChrisDruif :)
<amjjawad> MrChrisDruif: I will do my best to support you but I'm much more focusing on Comms Team right now :(
<MrChrisDruif> It's alright amjjawad, everyone's time is limited
<amjjawad> yep :(
 * phillw proposes #endmeeting
<gilir> we are already late, so I'll finish the meeting if nobody have any other topics
<MrChrisDruif> +1
<gilir> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 21 21:17:07 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-21-20.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-21-20.04.html
<gilir> thanks everyone :)
<amjjawad> gilir: thanks a lot :)
<phillw> gilir: as always, thanks for herding cats.
<balloons> gilir, ^^
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-23
 * skaet waves
 * skaet seeing some familiar faces show up...  :)
 * scott-work waves at skaet 
<astraljava> o/
<skaet> welcome astraljava.   :)
<astraljava> Thanks! Glad to be here.
 * skaet glad to see scott-work too.  :)
<pitti> hello
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar 23 15:00:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet>  [TOPIC] Release general overview - skaet
<skaet> Please remember to .. when you're done, and o/ if you want us to pause. :)
<skaet> Agenda can be found:
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-03-23
<skaet> Individual team status links will be added to it from:
<skaet> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/thread.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> We're now in Beta 2 Freeze, and the archive is frozen, so all changes will need to be reviewed by the release team.   Changes to the unseeded universe can continue to go in, but changes to seeded packages will need review.
<skaet> #ubuntu-release if questions, please.
<skaet> .
<skaet> For the first time we'll be using precise-proposed as a staging area while we're in Freeze.   unity is currently blazing the trail for us there using this new capability.
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Schedule is at:
<skaet>  #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet>  #link http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ubuntu-release-calendar/
<skaet>  .
<skaet> Upcoming Dates:
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/24 - Framework for Beta 2 release notes available for input
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/29 - DocumentationStringFreeze for ubuntu-doc and server-guide at 2100 UTC
<skaet> â¢ 2012/03/29 - Beta 2 Release
<skaet> .
<skaet>  Bugs committed to be fixed by the engineering teams can be found:
<skaet>  #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
<skaet> Bugs that you would like the engineering teams to consider for fixing, should be assigned to specific teams, so they can be found.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Individual Team Statuses Received by 1500 UTC:
<skaet> Hardware Certification - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001015.html - brendand
<skaet> Quality Assurance -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001019.html - jibel
<skaet> Security team  -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001016.html- mdeslaur
<skaet> Kernel team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001000.html - ogasawara
<skaet> Foundations -https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001024.html -  cjwatson
<skaet> Server -https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001020.html - arosales
<skaet> Linaro -  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001011.html - fabo
<skaet> Ubuntu One - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001006.html-  joshuahoover
<skaet> Desktop Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001012.html - pitti
<skaet> Unity Framework Team - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001022.html - dbarth
<skaet> Unity Services and Settings - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001027.html - Cimi
<skaet> Kubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001025.html-  Riddell
<skaet> Edubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001008.html- stgraber or highvoltage
<skaet> Xubuntu - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001014.html - astraljava
<skaet> Ubuntu Studio - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001017.html - scott-work
<skaet> Lubuntu  - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-March/001021.html - gilir
<skaet> Mythbuntu - no update received - superm1
<skaet> .
<skaet> [TOPIC] Comments, Question and Answer Session
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments, Question and Answer Session
<Riddell> hi
<mdeslaur> hello
<arosales> hello
<Riddell> \o
<skaet> hello everyone.   :)   was just about to ask for show of hands,  but Riddell's started us off.   :)
<skaet> go Riddell
<Riddell> that was deliberate as a starting question: how's everyone feeling about beta 2? any worries or things to look out for?
<highvoltage> o/
<pitti> I'll feel much better once that unity is in, and works :)
<highvoltage> (just waving hi, not noting any worries)
<Riddell> I think Kubuntu is good from smoketesting today but I still don't have precise images working on my arm board (of ubuntu desktop never mind kubuntu)
<tumbleweed> hi, no mail from MOTU this week, nothing big I'm aware of
<pitti> I'm not aware of true blockers in ubuntu desktop yet
<pitti> (again, that's pre-unity landing :-P *knocking on wood*)
<Riddell> pitti: what about wallpapers?
<pitti> Riddell: oh, we still have the old one? /me puts that on his list
<arosales> The MIR and security team have been doing a great job on plowing through the MIRs for server, that was one of the worrisome points.
<Riddell> pitti: I don't know but I heard rumours your artists haven't got round to either getting the precise ones in or the FFe needed for them
<Cimi> I am on wallpapers
<Riddell> pitti: NBS and component mismatches all good?
<Cimi> doing reviews this morning
<Riddell> Cimi: got a FFe?
<pitti> Riddell: mopping up the last things; kenvandine is on fixing telepathy-qt4, to get back beer on precise_probs
<Cimi> Riddell, not yet, we don't have the default set either
<Cimi> Riddell, we are targeting at beginning next week
<Riddell> pitti: oh interesting, is he talking to shadeslayer about telepathy-qt4?
<Riddell> Cimi: beginning next week is beta freeze
 * pitti relays that
<skaet> Riddell, Cimi - we're beta frozen now.
<Cimi> Riddell, we are not ready for them today
<skaet> this is pretty late
<Cimi> skaet, they are published in the bugreport
<Cimi> skaet, but we need higher resolution
<Cimi> skaet, and few of them might get removed
<pitti> we can do Monday under the condition that the size doesn't grow noticeably
<pitti> if it's bigger than the current one and overflows images, we have to do it post-beta
<skaet> Cimi,  is what's up there now going to be ok for ubuntu-docs to do their screenshots from?
<pitti> with "noticeably" == <= +200 kB or so
<Cimi> pitti, we'll probably have less wallpapers than ubuntu wallpapers in 11.10 package
<pitti> Cimi: sounds promising :)
<Cimi> ;-)
<arosales> o/
<skaet> Cimi,  what about the screen shots?
<Cimi> skaet, screen shots are taken against default wallpapers, isn't it?
<Cimi> *wallpaper
<skaet> Cimi,  yes
<cjwatson> I thought we'd been told the default wallpaper was changing a bit too
<Riddell> Cimi: will the scrollbar and slider behaviour be changing in 12.04?
<Cimi> skaet, the default wallpaper won't change that much
<cjwatson> how about it not change at all?
<Cimi> Riddell, you mean the left-click thing?
<cjwatson> then it won't affect screenshots
<Riddell> Cimi: I guess so yes
<Cimi> cjwatson, it changed so subtly, you won't notice
<pitti> if just the non-default ones change, it's not crucial to press into b2
<pitti> same for the subtle default change, I figure
<cjwatson> Cimi: I love being told that kind of thing ... actually not really
<Cimi> all the process of the LTS is to taking up 6 cycles and refining, the wallpaper is part of this process and is a refinements of the last
<cjwatson> if it's so subtle you won't notice, we could skip any screenshot risk by not taking that change
<Riddell> Cimi: are your processes aligned to the ubuntu release cycle including freezes?
<Cimi> Riddell, not really, but I am personally aware of them
<Riddell> is there someone aware of them or is that a team failure?
<Cimi> Riddell, I've asked the final default wallpaper, I'll look at it in a minute
<Cimi> Riddell, I'm not speaking of the system team now, I am dealing of a designer thing
<Riddell> skaet: maybe an action to ensure the design team is aware of the cycle they are working to?
<skaet> Riddell,   yes,  I was making a note of that.
<Cimi> systems team is doing great :-) and it's not that designers are doing bad, just that the selection and all the contest took more time
<Riddell> Cimi: what is the systems team?
<Cimi> Riddell, the team I am representing now
<Cimi> Riddell, I am an engineer of Systems but I work in London with designers
<skaet> #action - review design schedules, and dx system team release shedules against Ubuntu release schedule at UDS for Q
<meetingology> ACTION: - review design schedules, and dx system team release shedules against Ubuntu release schedule at UDS for Q
<Riddell> Cimi: isn't that Unity services and settings?
<Cimi> Riddell, it is
<skaet> Riddell,   yes, its the systems aspect.
<Riddell> "systems" seems awfae generic sounding, that's why I'm getting confused
<Riddell> anyway more important things to discuss I expect :)
<Cimi> Riddell, I will make sure designers will respect release schedule more firmly
<Cimi> no worries, skaet as well
<Cimi> I apologize for the issues if there were any
<cjwatson> mm, I never knew what Systems meant myself :)
<cjwatson> (maybe that should be "[DX Systems] Release Meeting 2012-03-30", since most of us aren't DX?)
<skaet> ..?
<cjwatson> yah, sorry
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> A documentation freeze exception (and adjustment of the translations deadlines) was made for ubuntu-docs and the server guide - to give them more time to get the content created.   Anyone who is able to help them with parts,  would be welcome.   Details of what needs to be done can be found:
<skaet> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-docs-todo (contact jbicha if questions)
<skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide (contact pmathulis if questions)
<skaet> it was relevant to the prior point, of impact of some of the changes being discussed,  so seemed appropriate to insert here.
<skaet> ..
<Cimi> give me few mins to check the final 12.04 default wallpaper
<skaet> Cimi,  sure.
<skaet> arosales,  go
<arosales> Just a coment
<arosales> cjwatson: Riddell: Thanks for your help on bug 948437 and bug 948438
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948437 in chef (Ubuntu Precise) "Remove unsupported release from Precise" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948437
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 948438 in ohai (Ubuntu Precise) "Remove unsupported release from Precise" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948438
<arosales> ..
<skaet> :)
<Riddell> all in a day's work from your friendly archive admin team
<skaet> o/
<Cimi> Riddell, for the left-click thing on the scale/scrollbar, it will get in 12.04 only if it will get merged in upstream gtk
<Cimi> Riddell, we will not distropatch gtk+
<Cimi> seb128 can confirm
<Riddell> Cimi: and any plans for Qt as used by various Ubuntu Desktop things?
<Cimi> Riddell, no plans for 12.04 I'd say
<Cimi> Riddell, but I doubt the patch will be difficult to do
<Riddell> mm, inconsistent scrollbar behavious between applications seems nasty
<Cimi> Riddell, what are you referring to?
<Riddell> patches are always harder than expectred :)
<Cimi> Riddell, overlay scrollbars or left-click jump-to behavior?
<Riddell> Cimi: if you're using ubuntu desktop and gtk changes then you have different behaviour between say firefox and ubuntu one
<Cimi> Riddell, overlay scrollbars for qt are not in the plans
<Riddell> dunno whatever
<Cimi> ah ok, you're talking abut overlay scrollbars now, and yes there are no plans now
<Cimi> and I think we should keep the conversation apart from this meeting
<Cimi> but thanks for raising the issue
<Riddell> ..
<skaet> brendand, any questions about apw's summary?  is there an ETA when some of that retesting they're asking for can happen?   also is  https://bugs.launchpad.net/hw-labs/+bug/834731 still a blocker since it can't be reproduced?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 834731 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Dell PowerEdge R810 fails to mount file system at /dev/sda1" [Medium,Incomplete]
<skaet> ..
<brendand> skaet, no - i will discuss taking the tag off it with ara
<Cimi> skaet, Riddell I received the new final 12.04 default wallpaper
<brendand> where is apw's summary?
<skaet> brendand,   he posted it to ubuntu-release mail list
<Riddell> Cimi: tell it to the desktop team :)
<Cimi> it won't affect screenshots with apps used in the ubuntu electronic manual on the desktop
<skaet> Cimi, thats good news, thanks.
<Cimi> maybe it should be used for the default screenshot in the ubuntu webpage once 12.04 is released, for sake of consistency
<brendand> skaet, ah ok. good news is that bug 714862 is fix released now and tested
<Cimi> but I don't think we are dealing with something that affects focs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 714862 in Linux "Atheros AR3011 cannot be turned up/is not recognized." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/714862
<skaet> [ACTION] skaet discuss screenshots for ubuntu web page with web team and Cimi.
<meetingology> ACTION: skaet discuss screenshots for ubuntu web page with web team and Cimi.
<skaet> brendand,  Can the ones looking for retesting get scheduled for early next week/later today?
<brendand> skaet, probably. i'll check and let you know
<skaet> its probably too late for Beta 2 at this point, but getting them in as soon as possible after the Beta2 release seems prudent.
<skaet> Thanks.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for other o/ before going on to her next one ;)
<Riddell> skaet: you're next :)
<skaet> :)
<skaet> dbarth, ogra_ - any estimates on when compiz will pick up the OpenGLES?
<skaet> ..
<skaet> fabo, ^  probably as well.  ;)
<ogra_> skaet, i uploaded the gles driver today 8sits in NEW and waits for an archive admin to letz it into multiverse)
<ogra_> once thats in i'll throw the compiz patch into our package
<ogra_> (patch is ready but without driver we couldnt test yet)
<ogra_> (it works in the luinaro images though, so i dont expect actual issues)
<ogra_> skaet, i would say right after beta
<ogra_> (i dont want to risk beta image stability for it)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> ogra_,  thanks,  :)  That's what I was trying to figure out.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> jibel,  any preliminary feedback on the Beta 2 images that started going up earlier today?
<jibel> from a QA perspective and the testing we did, B2 is in a rather good shape. The installer sprint helped a lot
<jibel> But I'm prudent, Unity never land without a bunch of surprises. So we'll know the real status of 12.04 once it's in.
 * skaet nods
<jibel> pitti, any ETA for a fix for bug 916291? It is now blocking oneric main and universe testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916291 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "failed to upgrade from Oneiric to Precise: ERROR: Cannot determine language! - exit status 134" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916291
<jibel> upgrade testing I mean
<pitti> jibel: we actually believed it to be fixed already
<pitti> so, as we currently didn't debug yet what's causing it, still a couple of days
<pitti> which will unfortunately mean post-b2 :(
<jibel> ok, thanks
<skaet> .. I think,  next question/comment?
<dbarth> ogra_: great news
<skaet> scott_work, astraljava, highvoltage, Riddell - any FFE's being waited on for your images?
<Riddell> not that I know of
<highvoltage> skaet: nope
 * skaet puts ticky mark in the Kubuntu column. :)
<highvoltage> (stgraber did a good job of poking me all the time to get things in on time)
 * skaet ticky marks Edubuntu.   :)
<Riddell> highvoltage: teachers pet!
<highvoltage> hie hie
<skaet> lol
<skaet> any other FFE's  that folks want to see in Beta2 but haven't been commented on?
<scott-work> skaet: no FFe's that i am aware of
<scott-work> i believe all we had are already completed
<skaet> thanks scott-work.
<skaet> also,  thanks tumbleweed for the update on Universe last week,  attached it to the minutes from last week.  :)
<scott-work> not sure about xubuntu, i asked in channel and astral.java is away from computer at the moment (who is here for xubuntu)
<skaet> scott-work, he was here at the start of the meeting, so something must have come up. :/
<ScottK> BTW, there was a volunteer to test powerpc images for Xubuntu on (IIRC) the QA list today.
<Riddell> volunteers to test the kubuntu images on arm welcome
<scott-work> skaet: i think he was on a tram with a laptop and low battery
<skaet> ScottK, interesting,  that's not one on Xubuntu's manifest for this release.
<ScottK> Yes.  They specifically asked if it could be added back.
<ScottK> IIRC it was just dropped due to lack of testers.
<skaet> pitti, cjwatson,  ^ thoughts?
<pitti> question for xubuntu really; if someone wants them and can test them, sure
<pitti> we should just keep in mind that adding a powerpc image quadruples image build time
<ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2012-March/002054.html
<pitti> in case they need fast turnarounds for bug fixes
<pitti> but that's not a big blocker, of course
<ScottK> skaet: I'm not sure there are Xubuntu people active on that list.  Could you follow up with them since they aren't here?
<skaet> I'll follow up with Xubuntu team offline.
<skaet> :)
<ScottK> Great.
 * skaet sees ScottK is faster at typing than she is.  :)
<cjwatson> the new-powerpc-buildd RT looks days away from completion
<cjwatson> ...
<skaet> ..
<skaet> anything else before we wrap up?
<Daviey> Things look surprisingly good!
<skaet> Thanks for your participation, brendand, jibel, mdeslaur, cjwatson, dbarth, Daviey, arosales,  fabo, pitti, Cimi, Riddell, stgraber, highvoltage, ogra_, tumbleweed
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar 23 15:52:33 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-23-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-23-15.00.html
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<arosales> skaet: thanks for chairing
<arosales> have a good weekend all
<Daviey> ta!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<skaet> Have a good weekend all.   :)
<jibel> thanks skaet! enjoy your week end all!
<scott-work> thank you :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-03-25
<funkyHat> Ã´/
<Pici> \o
<topyli> a smoke and i'm ready
<AlanBell> evening all
<AlanBell> #startmeeting ircc meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Mar 25 18:00:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ircc meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> agenda is over here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> so who is here for the meeting o/
<topyli> o/
<funkyHat> Ã´//
<bioterror> \o
<Pici> cogito, ergo sum.
<topyli> heh
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ircc meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review last meetings action items
<AlanBell> #progress Pici to send mail to the list about the guidelines document to encourage edits and fixes to the FIXMEs
<MrChrisDruif> o/
<Pici> I put together an email about the wrong thing. Sooo.. I didn't send that, but should have this email out either today or tomorrow.
<AlanBell> ok, that would be great
<topyli> good
<AlanBell> I did a bit of tinkering with the guidelines etherpad
<AlanBell> I think it is nearly ready to go
<Pici> great
<topyli> AlanBell: so you left few FIXMEs to fix? :)
<AlanBell> I removed a few of them
<AlanBell> I think there are a couple left
<topyli> ok, good progress
<AlanBell> lets have another go at finishing that off this week and get it published at the next meeting if possible
<topyli> yes, would be nice to close this bug
<AlanBell> another pici action now
<AlanBell> #progress Pici to work on the list of expired members
<AlanBell> get anywhere with that?
<Pici> Not really. I'll take care of it though.
<Pici> .30
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> #progress oCean to edit the guide to add advice on support questions in -offtopic
<AlanBell> hmm, which guide was that supposed to be?
<AlanBell> that was relating to the supporters guide
<Pici> Was it?
<Pici> I think we asked this same question about this item last time too...
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide
<AlanBell> at the very bottom
<AlanBell> so this item is done
<topyli> great
<AlanBell> ok, that concludes the actions from the last meeting
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ircc meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> we have no open items \o/
<topyli> more than that, it's done well
<topyli> woo!
<MrChrisDruif> Hurray
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ircc meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> no new bugs
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788503
<AlanBell> this is in progress and we want to sort it out for the next meeting
<Pici> indeed.
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884671
<topyli> i'm not convinced that jussi has had the chance to really look into this
<topyli> he recently gained a real life :)
<ikonia> it's odd that this has been raised since jussi was one of the main people who pushed the existing process
<Pici> heh
<AlanBell> yeah, but thats fine, I just put the person who raised the bug in the agenda
<Tm_T> ikonia: that only means he cares of the process
<topyli> ikonia: it's good to have him lead fixing it then. he agrees with the premise
<ikonia> what's actually looking at being changed though ?
<AlanBell> we have had a few people apply for ops in #ubuntustudio, great to see that project reanimated
<Pici> Nothing wrong with taking another look at the process as a whole.
<ikonia> more so as ubuntustudio is understaffed
<AlanBell> ikonia: well for one, we are doing applications from existing ops as they happen, and we did process all the applications in all the queues from existing ops
<topyli> ikonia: we want to be able to appoint ops without the process, when we know the people to be good
<ikonia> topyli: wasn't that how it was before the existing process was put in place ?
<ikonia> AlanBell: yeah, it was nice to see that
<AlanBell> the other thing we are doing is batching recruitment a bit and doing the induction thing a bit differently
<topyli> the current process makes it easier for us to evaluate people whom we don't know
<ikonia> AlanBell: the post-acceptence stuff is really good, I'm looking at the application and post acceptence as two seperate things
<Pici> We should really reach out to our new ops as we get them and ask them if they think the process could have been done better.
<MrChrisDruif> So like asking me? ;-)
<topyli> ikonia: i think the current thinking is that we should have both ways at our disposal. the current process for people we don't know, and the "just do it" approach to people that we do know
<topyli> Pici: yeah, what did they find difficult or annoying, and what was useful
<ikonia> seems sensible
<Pici> Aye.
<AlanBell> well I think at the time of the precise launch we want to kick off another intake of ops across a wider selection of channels
<ikonia> the current new guys may not be the best measure as lots of it was being setup as they where being brought on board
<MrChrisDruif> The current process is that a op first gets approved, then after two months evaluated for continuation?
<topyli> three months iirc, but yeah
<AlanBell> three months, but yes, that is part of it, but this is more about how we find ops and when we process the applications etc
<pangolin> only two months? I've been an op for a year or so now and still being evaluated
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets move along
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu -ikonia
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500
<topyli> pangolin: everybody's being evaluated anyway :)
<pangolin> topyli, :)
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, clear
<AlanBell> would like to see a bit more on the eir like functionality from other bots
<AlanBell> there has been a bit of a trial of ubottu-fr
<AlanBell> how has that been going?
<topyli> how much did moving the eir nagging out of -ops-team help?
<ikonia> the ubottu-fr stuff seems good
<pangolin> topyli, there is less nagging in -ops-team, that is the only difference I have seen
<funkyHat> It means -ops-team is usable, not sure how it's affected the banlist in #u though ;)
<Pici> I for one am very glad that -ops-team can actually be used instead of it being nearly flooded by eir.
<ikonia> eir as a tool does not effect the ban list
<ikonia> it adds value auto-removing the floodbots
<Pici> Also, I don't think that ubotu-fr is in #ubuntu anymore, or at least its not doing any reporting in -monitor.
<ikonia> they where the main cause of the ban list filling up
<ikonia> Pici: it's been pm'ing
<Pici> Ah.
<Myrtti> Pici: it's been pm'ing, and it's also muted in #ubuntu, by me
<Myrtti> as a Ubuntu copy it was responding to factoid requests
<Pici> I haven't been able to do alot of opping in #ubuntu lately (work = busy)
<ikonia> the overall functionality of it has been good though
<ikonia> been a little confusing as I keep forgetting which bot we are meant to be using
<ikonia> in my view pushing forward with ubottu-fr is worth while as out of the box it beat eir for usability
<AlanBell> so what does ubottu-fr do exactly?
<ikonia> pretty much the base functionality of eir
<pangolin> it does everything eir does + ubottu
<ikonia> you get banned it asks you to set a comment on it, updates BT with a relevent comment in the right ban id etc etc
<ikonia> if it can auto remove floodbot bans I think it will be pretty much perfect
<ikonia> the main thing for me is the auto removal of floodbot bans, keep the ban list ok, then functionality that feeds into BT,
<ikonia> it seems a solid base to move forward from
<topyli> fresh comments on the bug would be useful, so we can get some tangible indication of progress
<ikonia> I'll put some feedback in on it,
<AlanBell> so it updates the ubottu bantracker?
<ikonia> AlanBell: correct
<AlanBell> yay
<topyli> ikonia: thanks
<AlanBell> yeah, feedback on the bug would be perfect
<ikonia> AlanBell: so when you query a ban, it reads from the same ban id
<ikonia> all in sync etc.
<ikonia> it's not %100 spot on, but it's a solid base for me
<ikonia> the sooner we can use that and dump eir, then move on with ubottu as a base, the better it will be in my view
<oCean> these bugs are filed against eir, but probably still exist when using ubottu-fr
<AlanBell> if people could put their thoughts there, or on the mailing list or elsewhere that would be great, then we can talk about the next steps at the next meeting
<ikonia> at the moment we are using a ton of bots so it's hard to get real usage
<oCean> err these bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=[eir
<ikonia> oCean: some of them are resolved in ubottu-fr
<Pici> agreed having only 1 tool is better
<topyli> absolutely
<ikonia> I think we've been in ubottu/ubottu-fr/eir limbo for a while
<ikonia> be nice to start pushing ubottu/ubottu-fr merge and start using it and fix bugs going forward
<AlanBell> yup
<pangolin> can't we just run our own instance of ubotu-fr?
<Pici> how doed ubotu-fr handle floodbot bans?
<ikonia> Pici: from what I've seen - nothing yet but nico was saying it can do it
<ikonia> Pici: I don't think it's doing it as it would cause a fight with eir
<ikonia> Pici: (not certain on that)
<ikonia> that's why I'm saying dump eir, get ubottu merged and running, then fix going forward
<AlanBell> pangolin: sure, but we had to try it out for a bit first
<Pici> are we going to have to do manual removals in batches like we did previously?
<ikonia> Pici: I'd check the functionality with nico
<pangolin> AlanBell, I don't know that anyone has actually used it for actual ban handling
<pangolin> it is there but has anyone set comments with u-fr?
<Pici> i'll check with him and look at the code myself
<AlanBell> #action people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500
<meetingology> ACTION: people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500
<topyli> heh
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541
<AlanBell> oh, we talked about this one already
<AlanBell> #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 916247 in ubuntu-community "devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916247
<AlanBell> it did get fixed, we were just keeping this bug around for a bit in case anyone felt like migrating the content to wiki.ubuntu.com
<AlanBell> I tried a bit, but it does require quite a lot of manual reformatting to moin syntax
<AlanBell> #topic Set all operators to renew at same time via LP so people can plan to deal with the renewals nicely
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ircc meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Set all operators to renew at same time via LP so people can plan to deal with the renewals nicely
<AlanBell> I did some tinkering with lplib to find out when people do expire, I will did that out in a sec
<AlanBell> anyone think this is a startlingly good idea?
<Pici> I think it'll fill up my inbox fast ;)
<pangolin> who clicks on the renew link for this?
<funkyHat> It would mean I could more easily mass-archive all of the renewal emails I get
<topyli> less regularly too
<Pici> But seriously, it would be nice to deal with everthing at once
<topyli> well, more regularly but less often
<topyli> there will be cases where people have just renewed and will have to do it again
<funkyHat> Unless we set everyone's renewals a year from now
<AlanBell> well we could set them all to two years from now
<AlanBell> or set them to all expire one week into the term of the next IRCC if we were feeling evil
<Pici> tsk tsk
<funkyHat> haha
<topyli> hehe
<AlanBell> I know one IT manager who set all the certificates in the business to expire one week after his 65th birthday
<funkyHat> hahaha
<topyli> nice farewell :)
<AlanBell> anyhow, back to the topic, is harmonising renewal dates a good idea?
<ikonia> I see benifit, I see pain
<funkyHat> I'm not especially concerned either way
<Pici> me either
<AlanBell> personally I can't see a net reduction in pain
<topyli> it is a good idea. the problem is how we do it in practice. give it a year for everybody sounds good
<Pici> i think we'll have issues qhen setting it for new ops
<AlanBell> in practice someone sits down with lplib and a python script for an hour or two then presses a button
<topyli> meh, i'm failing to have a clear opinion
<Pici> perhaps staggering the potential loss of ops would be better....
<AlanBell> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdEtaNkRRM0xIdWtrTnBKalhZUkdxLXc
<Pici> I dont really see an overwhelming need to change it right now.
<AlanBell> that is it, now sorted by expiry date
<AlanBell> yeah, right now I don't really see the problem that it solves
<topyli> maybe we should shelf this. nobody seems to be able to come up with a problem we would solve... yeah
<AlanBell> I guess we could give everyone a longer countdown, right now people have one week to press the button
<AlanBell> and if they don't then they miss it, and we can sort it out
<Myrtti> "here remember to set an alarm on your calendar"
<AlanBell> given that I just made a spreadsheet with all the dates on we could do that bit anyway
<pangolin> already spent more time on this than the bots issue
<Pici> heh
<AlanBell> ok, I think we should close this agenda item for the moment, it isn't remotely urgent and it is of questionable value
<pangolin> I'm sure this is important but how important?
<SilverLion> o/
<Pici> Sounds good
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
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<AlanBell> does anyone have anything else they would like to raise?
 * Pici thinks
<topyli> salaries don't count
<AlanBell> we should do some membership applications at some point, not done any of those yet
 * AlanBell doubles topyli's salary
<topyli> still 0 :(
 * pangolin thinks
<Pici> do we have any apps ine the queue?
<AlanBell> nope
<topyli> we're still not advertising irc membership enough
<Myrtti> do we have a schedule for harmonizing the channel access lists?
<Pici> Comparing with LP, or?
<AlanBell> Myrtti: good question, I was going to try and do that in April sometime, I was pondering a semi-automatic way of doing so
<pangolin> s/harmonizing/cleaning up/
<Myrtti> Pici: and other means of communication
<ikonia> question, is it worth revisiting (next meeting) the possability of merging some of the offtopic channels ?
<ikonia> or is it a dead waste ?
<AlanBell> yeah, we could talk about that
<Pici> I think it would be a good discussion
<pangolin> ikonia, I think it is a non-issue really. people want to relax in k-ot or whatever I don't see a reason to force them all into one channel.
<topyli> theoretically, i'd like a single offtopic channel. but i'm not sure what the other 'flavors' would think
<ikonia> if so I'll do an agenda item and put some points to/against it
<AlanBell> ok
<topyli> ikonia: good, thanks
<ikonia> if people think it's worth while
<Pici> a diacuasion fir another meeting.....
<AlanBell> ok, all done?
<Pici> topyli, me as well
<Pici> yep
<ikonia> I'll raise it then
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Mar 25 18:55:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-25-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-25-18.00.html
<AlanBell> less than an hour \o/
<funkyHat> yay ^Â·^
<topyli> awesome
<Pici> thanks all
<funkyHat> Thankyou
<topyli> thanks
<AlanBell> if anyone wants to have a play with http://notes.kde.org/ubuntuguidelines feel free to pile in and fix stuff
<topyli> ikonia: could you also send mail to the irc-team list and ask #k-ot, #x-ot, #l-ot and other ops to join the discussion?
<topyli> i might as well do it too though. but if you have already thought about pros and cons, it could be better
<ikonia> topyli: sure
<topyli> great, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-18
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi !
<jjohansen> o/
<sarnold> \o/
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 18 18:03:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> ChrisCoulson moved over to the security team as our browser security engineer. Chris has been a long-time friend to the security team as the Mozilla maintainer on the desktop team. Welcome Chris! :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> :)
<sbeattie> Woot! Welcome, chrisccoulson!
<mdeslaur> welcome!
<sarnold> hunh, I never noticed that extra 'c' :)
<chrisccoulson> hah, that confuses people ;)
<sarnold> tab-complete for the brain missed it entirely :) welcome :)
<jdstrand> me either-- that will make my irssi commands interesting :)
<chrisccoulson> all of my names begin with C. I'll let you try to guess what my other name is ;)
<mdeslaur> Custard?
<chrisccoulson> lol
<jdstrand> maybe in another channel :P
<jdstrand> Thanks to Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) who provided a debdiff for precise for tinyproxy (LP: #1154502) and a debdiff for oneiric for tomcat7 (LP: #1115053). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1154502 in tinyproxy (Ubuntu Precise) "Multiple open vulnerabilities in tinyproxy" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154502
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1115053 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu Precise) "Multiple open vulnerabilities in tomcat7 in 12.04 and 11.10" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1115053
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> n/a
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I'm working on a nova update
<jdstrand> I've also got another embargoed update
<jdstrand> the CVE list is pretty high atm. I hope to work on something else there
<jdstrand> I've also got a work item for apparmor dbus policy I need to do before next week
<jdstrand> I may pick up an audit as well
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I just published a couple of USNs
<mdeslaur> and I'm on community this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on perl updates
<mdeslaur> and will continue going down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: we need to send out the EoL notices
<sbeattie> \o/
<mdeslaur> a bunch of stuff in dying in a month
<mdeslaur> and that's it from me
<chrisccoulson> ooh, i like EoL notices ;)
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: ack
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor again this week, working on the display manager blueprint workitems
<sbeattie> I'm still working on the apparmor dm prototype, still tracking down some memory allocation errors on my part
<sbeattie> and digging into the mir codebase
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me. tyhicks: tag
<jdstrand> tyhicks: is out today
<jdstrand> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I need to finish up with a regression bug 1145234, and then fixing the loading profiles from cache issue.
<ubottu> bug 1145234 in QA Regression Testing "FAIL: parent ptrace(PTRACE_SINGLESTEP) failed - : No such process" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1145234
<jdstrand> s/://
<jjohansen> And then it will be back to the apparmor labeling wi
<jdstrand> jjohansen: can you elaborate on 1145234?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: did this come about because of a security update?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes our ptrace backport causes failures on lucid
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok, and only lucid? is it just with the backport kernels on lucid?
<jjohansen> yes only on lucid
<jdstrand> or even those kernels at all
<jjohansen> jdstrand: only the lucid kernel with the ptrace backport
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I know which patch even, however its not that simple as the patch is correct
<jdstrand> hrm
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> its the logic inbetween the backported patch that is missing that is causing problems
<jdstrand> so it needs either some more commits or some glue
<jjohansen> in other words we need to backport more than the 4 patches we are already doing for the bug
<jjohansen> yeah
 * jdstrand nods
 * mdeslaur gets out the Elmer's
<sarnold> did you guys ever get the exploit to work on lucid?
<jjohansen> sarnold: yes, it was hardy we failed on
<sarnold> ah :/
<jjohansen> but hardy should theoretically be vulnerable as well
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm finishing up the systemd-related MIR audits this week; I've also got the lxc MIR audit outstanding that I'll work on unless jjohansen hands me a new patch set first :)
<sarnold> I also upgraded my laptop to raring over the weekend, initial impressions are quite good :) a handful of small bugs to file, but ... yay :)
<jdstrand> nice
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson's turn
<chrisccoulson> so, for anyone who's not aware, one of the things i've been working on recently is improving our browser automated tests. i've done quite a lot of work for firefox already, but this week i plan to start improving the situation for chromium too
<chrisccoulson> starting with hooking the upstream tests in to jenkins, like we have already for firefox
<chrisccoulson> and then replacing our existing manual tests with more automated ones :)
<chrisccoulson> and i've got some wiki stuff to read ;)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: how would you characterize the status of the firefox tests?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, in mostly good shape. there's some failures i don't yet understand, and some random failures too (eg, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/ARCH=i386,label=adt/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/dom.media.tests/mochitest/test_peerConnection_bug840344_html/ - although we've just established this one is an OOM)
<chrisccoulson> but otherwise, the failure rate is very low. it would be nice to get it to zero though :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: not saying you should do this for this case, but is it possible to disable individual problematic tests?
<jdstrand> we've been looking at doing that with openjdk for example, where some tests are non-deterministic
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, there's the ability to skip problematic tests. and for some of the testsuites, you can also mark them as failing or random so that they still run (and an expected-fail test that passes will cause a test failure)
<jdstrand> heh, 'random'
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what releases are currently tested?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, only raring for now. i'd like to get them running on all releases really though
<chrisccoulson> i need to ask jibel about that though :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: well, since desktop lucid and oneiric are almost EOL, just precise and later would be enough
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that makes sense
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: you mentioned to me that these are run within an Ubuntu environment, is that right?
<chrisccoulson> mozilla are transitioning their test machines to ubuntu, so the upstream tests will be run on ubuntu 12.04 by mozilla as well
<chrisccoulson> which helps us a bit
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: what I am eventually leading to asking is how much we'll be able to trust that these tests are valid for our security builds (it looks like this is against daily too)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: re upstream> that is nice that they are aligned with our (soon to be) oldest supported LTS
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, i suspect there will still be additional high-level testing (eg, making sure flash works). but i hope i can automate that too
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool-- thanks for the deeper update. we can talk more about this another time. these automated tests will fill an important void for our team
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I may have cut you off. do you have anything else to report?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, no, i think i'm done now
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/extplorer.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rt-authen-externalauth.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tinymce.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/msmtp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/festival.html
<jdstrand> The above are some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security on Freenode.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I think we may want to consider moving our team meeting. I'll take an action to explore that and discuss next week
<jdstrand> [ACTION] jdstrand to follow-up on potentially changing time of team meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: jdstrand to follow-up on potentially changing time of team meeting
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 18 18:38:16 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-18-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-18-18.03.html
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> sure thing :)
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
 * stgraber waves
 * ScottK looks up.
<infinity> o/
<mdz> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 18 21:01:26 2013 UTC.  The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<cjwatson> Hi
<mdz> kees, ayt?
<mdz> I don't seem to have a list of actions from the previous meeting
<mdz> I'll have to dig it out of IRC logs unless someone has it handy
<stgraber> mdz: only action was for me to setup the two new flavours
<stgraber> mdz: which is 90% done, I think we're just missing Ubuntu GNOME on the iso tracker
<mdz> #topic action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
<mdz> stgraber to create packagesets + upload teams for Kylin and UbuntuGnome
<stgraber> done
<mdz> ok
<mdz> #topic Agenda
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Agenda
<mdz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda has:
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001527.html
<mdz> i.e. "Examine sabdfl's updated release management straw man"
<mdz> and that's it
<mdz> anything else for the agenda?
<mdz> there's this leadership meeting that Jono asked about: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001536.html
<cjwatson> I suspect the release thing will keep us busy
<mdz> ok
<mdz> #topic Proposed changes to release management
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Proposed changes to release management
<mdz> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001527.html
<mdz> so the core of this seems to be phasing out the non-LTS releases
<stgraber> ok, so who do we have here for this discussion?
<infinity> Or, rather, reducing their support cycle.
<micahg> o/
<stgraber> rickspencer3: around?
<rickspencer3> I'm hear, fwiw
<rickspencer3> so, what infinity said
 * xnox is just lurking.
<mdz> ah yes, this is newer than what I'd read
<cjwatson> Newer and quite different, I suspect - you'll want to catch up
 * lool is watching too
<mdz> yes, sorry I'm a bit behind on this, it's been a busy week
 * ogra_ waves from the balcony
<mdz> so what questions or concerns do folks have?
<stgraber> so from what I remember we appear to have some kind of consensus around shortening the support length of regular releases to 7 or 8 months
<infinity> I'm with the majority on the supporting the reduced lifecycle, but thinking 8 is more appropriate than 7, while we're bikeshedding.
<stgraber> therefore making reducing the number of releases we need to SRU fixes to and reducing the amount of work the security and kernel team have to do
<cjwatson> That seems to have been fairly broadly supported by mail; the exact details are bikeshed, but most people seem to prefer 8
<mdz> the previous proposal sounded more like debian testing + long term releases, this one sounds more like RHEL+Fedora
<cjwatson> (In my biased assessment)
<bryce> mdz, one other item if there's room in the agenda - MRE for xserver.  Proposal is in the techboard  list's moderation queue.
<mdz> bryce, ok, please add to the wiki as a reminder
 * cjwatson processes the mod queue
<mdz> I'm not sure if we will get to it given we have a meaty topic
<bryce> mdz, will do
<cjwatson> I think there probably isn't enough time for the board to process something received just now
<stgraber> bryce: we're usually happy to process those by e-mail so we can do that if as we suspect the release discussion ends up taking the rest of the meeting
<cjwatson> It's out of the mod queue though
<micahg> from a quality perspective, 9 would seemingly be the sweet spot at the moment in that it mirrors the LTS cycle (.1 is usually 3 months after release), meaning that most bugs that will be fixed are probably fixed by then
<mdz> it seems like the release proposal includes several parts which could potentially be considered separately
<cjwatson> Have we seen the indicated strawman from the kernel team on LTS kernel maintenance yet?
<ScottK> FWIW, Kubuntu would like 9.
<mdz> e.g. reducing the support duration for interim releases seems fairly uncontroversial
<cjwatson> months> TBH I'm easy as long as we reduce the overlap count
<ogasawara> cjwatson: it's essentially what we have written up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<mdz> are folks open to breaking it up a little so we can close out some of the items?
<lool> yes, there are proposed changes to LTS point releases too
<cjwatson> mdz: definitely
<infinity> mdz: That seems reasonable.
<bryce> stgraber, that would be fine (and probably sufficient for this).  Thanks.
<ScottK> For those catching up, Kubuntu, as a project, did a comprehensive review of the proposal.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001553.html
<stgraber> mdz: I think it's the only way to get anything done in this meeting, so +1 :)
<cjwatson> ogasawara: So my reading is that that indicates rolling Q-kernel-on-12.04 users forward, rather than continuing to support the Q kernel?
<cjwatson> Wait, bad example
<mdz> #subtopic Support duration for interim releases
<ogasawara> cjwatson: no, we agreed to support them to the LTS, not roll forward
<cjwatson> R-kernel-on-12.04 would be rolled forward in, er, 13.04 + 8/9 months
<cjwatson> ?
<cjwatson> If we stop 13.04 support then
<micahg> mdz: can we call them regular releases as kees suggested?
<micahg> interim implies not important (to paraphrase)
<mdz> I didn't see that. I'm not fussed about the name personally
<ogra_> yeah, that "interim" thing is an awful term
<mdz> "standard" is what we called them once upon a time
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> ogasawara: Mark's proposal calls for 13.04 support to cease before 14.04 LTS; I'm not clear whether https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack takes that into account
<micahg> that works fine too
<cjwatson> I guess this is more on the LTS-support topic, though
<ogasawara> cjwatson: we initially agreed that we would support each enablement stack for 18mo, ie naturally support duration, but with the proposal to the TB, I think we should support each until the 14.04.1 release
<ogasawara> cjwatson: so that would be the only deviation from what we have today
<mdz> what's the specific issue for the TB to arbitrate here, on the topic of maintenance for regular releases?
<cjwatson> ogasawara: I have some questions/concerns there, but should probably hold them off until we reach the relevant subtopic
<infinity> mdz: I think it just boils down to "do we cut the support cycle shorter" and "how long".
<infinity> mdz: The former seems to have broad agreement already, the latter needs a short bikeshed and vote, I imagine.
<mdz> agreed
<rickspencer3> I might add "and starting with which standard release"
<infinity> Oh, and that.
<infinity> I'd prefer to start with R.
<mdz> do we have representation from the security team here today?
<rickspencer3> me too
<infinity> jdstrand: You paying attention?
 * jdstrand reads backscroll
<ogasawara> cjwatson: I'm happy to follow up via email if needed (might be easier)
<cjwatson> If we had a way to poll our users in any kind of effective way, I'd like to explore retroactively starting with 12.10; but as it stands, I think that would be as likely as not to send a bad message and act as a distraction
<mdz> jdstrand, just looking for input on the question of maintenance duration for regular releases
<cjwatson> (aka, commitments are hard to unwind once you've made them)
<infinity> cjwatson: Comm... What you said.
<jdstrand> We are prepared to do 18 months if needed. I think 8 months seems reasonable for people to migrate, but we'll support 7+
<infinity> cjwatson: We can revisit SRU policy to keep 12.10 maintenance as lightweight as possible, but I think dropping support entirely would be in very poor form.
<jdstrand> ie, we're flexible :)
<cjwatson> infinity: Yeah
<cjwatson> I would definitely like to pare back the extent to which developers feel they have to do dual uploads to precise/quantal, because I do think that's a bottleneck
<ScottK> I think we can solve that within the SRU team.
<infinity> Absolutely.  But we're on a tangent again. ;)
<cjwatson> But I'm not going to press for dropping support entirely
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, could we take that as a future TB discussion point?
<cjwatson> Sure
<infinity> And yes, we can solve that without TB intervention.  We're good at rejecting uploads.
<infinity> Really good.
<mdz> does anyone have a serious objection to reducing the maintenance lifetime by at least 9 months?
 * ScottK likes precisely 9 months ....
<stgraber> right, SRU policies can be discussed on ubuntu-release@l.u.c and be brought to the TB if the SRU team feels they need extra power or want to run something by us (though we have a reasonable overlap between the two teams ;))
<infinity> mdz: From reviewing the thread, I think 9 would make most everyone happy.  8 would make almost everyone happy.  7 would make Mark happy, and the rest of us nervous.
<mdz> right, to rephrase: does anyone feel strongly that maintenance ought to be *longer* than 9 months?
<cjwatson> So, on 9 months, the arguments that (a) this brings us up to the LTS.1 sweet spot and (b) this lines up with upstream point release cadence (at minimum in KDE) are ones I find compelling
<mdz> trying to bisect the problem ;-)
<jdstrand> I think it was implied in my last comment, but 9 is fine by the security team
<stgraber> I'm perfectly happy with 9 months. I'd only be nervous with < 8 months.
<mdz> sounds like no objections
<mdz> would anyone be negatively impacted by making it 9 months exactly?
<mdz> i.e. could anyone not live with that?
<infinity> I think cutting our support cycle in half is already such a huge win that quibbling over another month or two isn't worth it.  If there are compelling reasons for 9 (and there seem to be), I'm all for it.
<mdz> infinity, is it implied by your comment that Mark would be dissatisfied with that?
<mdz> a bit odd that he doesn't seem to be here
<infinity> mdz: Oh, he hasn't expressed concern about people wanting 8/9, just that he initially wanted 7.
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> rickspencer3: Do you know if Mark has expressed a strong opinion on this particular bikeshed?
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, I do not know
<cjwatson> OK.  It sounds like 9 is a good common position, then
 * xnox o/
 * micahg apologizes, but has to go
<cjwatson> xnox: ?
<infinity> I'm pretty comfy with the 3 month overlap, personally.  While people upgrading Ubuntu->Ubuntu (or any in-archive flavour) can do their testing and upgrading fairly rapidly, 3 months gives derivatives a bit of breathing room to rebase.
<xnox> if we decide that raring gets 9 month support there will be no overlap between quantal EOL and raring EOL, unless quantal support is extended.
<ScottK> But "S" will be out before then.
<infinity> xnox: That's... What Scott said.
<ogra_> xnox, people are forced to upgrade
<mdz> ok, seems like we can put 9 months to a vote
<stgraber> xnox: we're also discussing allowing upgrading by more than a single release
<cjwatson> quantal support is probably a separate topic for at least two reasons, but ... what stgraber said
<infinity> (And leads to another discussion topic, where I think we need to support better upgrade paths)
<xnox> stgraber: ok.
<stgraber> mdz: do we want to also bundle what release to start the 9 months support with as part of the vote, or do you want to split?
<mdz> #vote Reduce maintenance period for regular (non-LTS) Ubuntu releases from 18 months to 9 months (starting with release TBD)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Reduce maintenance period for regular (non-LTS) Ubuntu releases from 18 months to 9 months (starting with release TBD)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mdz> stgraber, ;-)
<stgraber> mdz: that answers it ;)
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<mdz> we're missing kees, pitti and soren, yes?
<mdz> so that's all TB members present?
<cjwatson> Unfortunately narrow quorum for such an important topic
<mdz> we can ask for comments/votes by email as well
<mdz> if you want
<infinity> I can pretend to be kees.
<ogra_> xchat agrees, you are equally red colored ...
<mdz> a discussion about quorum should ideally have preceded the start of a vote
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Reduce maintenance period for regular (non-LTS) Ubuntu releases from 18 months to 9 months (starting with release TBD)
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cjwatson> Sorry, didn't mean to derail
 * cjwatson looks at the mails from the relevant people
<mdz> I'm comfortable with meeting quorum on this particular subtopic
<cjwatson> kees expressed support for truncating the support cycle
<cjwatson> So did soren and pitti
<cjwatson> OK
<mdz> the next topic should probably be when to make the change effective
<mdz> #subtopic effective date for new maintenance period for regular releases
<mdz> what are the main options?
<infinity> s/effective date/effective release/
<mdz> fair enough
<infinity> The former being somewhat ambiguous as to what it will apply to.
<cjwatson> I guess the main options are 12.10, 13.04, later
<infinity> ^
<cjwatson> I thought we'd essentially disposed of that part of the discussion above, but as you like :)
<infinity> 13.04 being, I think, the "obvious" middle ground between "we want this done ASAP" and "we don't want to shaft previously-assumed commitments".
<mdz> 12.10 doesn't seem workable for reasons discussed above, i.e. breaking promises to users retroactively
<cjwatson> It phases in effort savings over time rather than cutting things off immediately, but that's life, I think
<mdz> "Maintenance updates will be provided for Ubuntu 12.10 for 18 months, through April 2014."
<cjwatson> Well, "immediately" would in fact be at minimum four months from now in any event
<cjwatson> (That being 12.10 + 9 months)
<mdz> I haven't heard a compelling reason why we should go back on that promise
<mdz> how about 13.04? any concerns to discuss there?
<cjwatson> No, I agree.  It's an option, and we are right to consider it, but I think we're also right to reject it
<ScottK> Ideally this would kick in at the start of an LTS cycle, but that's a long time from now.
<stgraber> right, I don't think we should change anything we already released. Now the question is 13.04 vs 13.10.
<infinity> ScottK: What we were discussing in #-release should likely cover the scariness of this happening between LTSen.
<mdz> yes, that seems a lot to ask, especially if the goal is to help focus limited attention and resources sooner is much better than later
<ScottK> infinity: Agreed.
 * ScottK isn't arguing for this starting for 14.10, but putting out there as a natural spot in the meta-cycle.  As infinity said, it's manageable for 13.04/10.
<mdz> so there's some preference for 13.04 as it's sooner, so we can start implementing this sooner and get the benefits of less maintenance load sooner
<cjwatson> I don't think shortening 13.04 to 9 months is going to be a surprise to all that many people at this point.
<mdz> unless there's a specific reason to prefer 13.10, that seems like enough of a tiebreaker to me
<stgraber> right, so based on the above, the options really are 13.04, 13.10 or 14.10 (14.04 being special as it's an LTS)
<cjwatson> From the discussion I think we can just have an up/down vote on 13.40.
<cjwatson> 13.04.
<mdz> I think 14.10 is right out; if that's the fastest we can move as a project then we are doomed :-)
<mdz> cjwatson, agreed
<cjwatson> :-)
<stgraber> now with the upgrade changes being discussed, I'm happy to do that with 13.04
<mdz> #vote Implement the above change to the maintenance schedule effective in 13.04 and later
<meetingology> Please vote on: Implement the above change to the maintenance schedule effective in 13.04 and later
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Implement the above change to the maintenance schedule effective in 13.04 and later
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mdz> I'm looking at #3 on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001527.html
<mdz> it doesn't seem like there's much substance to it
<mdz> just a "designation"
<mdz> is there any practical impact to this part of the proposal?
<cjwatson> Well
<cjwatson> As stated it implies having an unstable series, which is quite a big deal operationally :)
<infinity> The second half of it is actually a fairly large technical snafu hidden in a quick aside.
<cjwatson> Sorry, not unstable, I mean a perpetual testing
<infinity> And given how quickly we freeze/release, I'm not sure it's worth it.
<mdz> cjwatson, oh?
<mdz> hmm
<cjwatson> We could perhaps meet the request by having an alias
<infinity> We've already been working to compress the FF->release window, etc.
<cjwatson> I actually always wondered why we never did suite aliasing, and I think the answer is "inertia"
<infinity> cjwatson: Oh, sure, we could absolutely do Debian-style symlink aliases.
<cjwatson> But having a dists/development -> raring (at the current time) symlink wouldn't be that big a deal
<mdz> we didn't do it because we didn't want the inter-release upgrade behavior that Debian had
<infinity> cjwatson: That's much more lightweight than what I assumed was meant here.
<mdz> cjwatson, yeah, that's what I assumed this would entail - a symlink which always pointed to the "rolling release"
<infinity> mdz: You'd agree that if we only alias "development", but not "stable", etc, then we don't have the Debian problem?
<mdz> whether that's an eternal suite or one which changes sometimes
<cjwatson> infinity: I may be being presumptuous, but I had the impression Mark's proposal was fungible in terms of exact implementation
<mdz> infinity, yes
<infinity> I'd be all for that.
<cjwatson> Then it's a bikeshed about the name which we don't need to have here
<infinity> I read it as a heavyweight "do development in something sid-like, fork for release, repeat".
<mdz> the proposal asks the TB to evaluate whether that's a good idea
<cjwatson> That said, that doesn't answer the question of PPAs easily building for just the "edge" release
<mdz> I'd be comfortable delegating that to the people running the archive
<stgraber> cjwatson: how much pain would you expect to result from opening the next dev cycle at the same time we hit final freeze (or even FF)? (and changing the "development" symlink to point to it at that point)
<mdz> (the implementation)
<cjwatson> stgraber: As it stands it's not possible - it causes madness in the implementation
<mdz> with a goal of making it possible to stay on the rolling release without explicit intervention from the user
<infinity> stgraber: Soyuz can't deal with two active releases.
<ogra_> and madness for doko perhaps :)
<infinity> stgraber: That's likely a solvable problem, but not a solved one currently.
<cjwatson> The problem I have with it is actually more fundamental than the implementation
<mdz> cjwatson, do tell
<cjwatson> I think that doing that distracts developer attention into ooh-new-shiny at exactly the point we want them to be doing final polish on the release
<infinity> It also, of course, sucks resources from the freeze and release.
<infinity> cjwatson: Jinx.
<ogra_> ++
<ScottK> We've got permission to open backports pre-release for stuff people HAVE to have.
<cjwatson> Which is why I've never put much energy into unhardcoding things like the one-development-series assumption in Soyuz, and sorting out the ancestry madness that I believe to exist
<cjwatson> (Er, don't ask me to expand too much on the latter - I think it's based on a comment from Celso from about five years back)
<stgraber> yeah, that's a fair point. We need developers to move from the "implement new cool stuff" to "fixing bugs" mode for at least a few weeks in the cycle.
<cjwatson> Anyway, I don't think this stops us having a dev -> whatever symlink
<mdz> cjwatson, hmm, maybe I'm misreading this
<infinity> So.  Back to the symlink topic.  That doesn't solve Mark's magical PPA that always targets devel strawman.
<mdz> but it wasn't implicit to me that this proposal meant changing anything in terms of the freeze
<cjwatson> I hear we have a release sprint at some point with the LP guys; perhaps we should put this on the table for that
<infinity> mdz: That was Colin and I responding to Stephane.
<cjwatson> mdz: It didn't.  I was responding specifically to stgraber's comment.
<cjwatson> 21:46 <stgraber> cjwatson: how much pain would you expect to result from opening the next dev cycle at the same time we hit final freeze (or even FF)? (and changing the "development" symlink to point to it at that point)
<mdz> just making it possible to stay on the newest/development release continuously
<mdz> ok
<cjwatson> infinity: How about we get together at a convenient point this week and see if we can work out something that would work, and take it to the Australian cabal for sanity-checking?
<mdz> so would the TB be comfortable taking a vote on declaring the project's intent that we should make it possible for users to track the development focus continuously and easily, while leaving the exact implementation open?
<cjwatson> I don't think we're going to invent something in ten minutes
<infinity> cjwatson: So, the PPA thing could be "solved" by doing a mass source+bin copy from rel-1 to rel when we open a new release.  Would grind ppa.lp.net to a halt for a ridiculous amount of time while it republished the world, though.
<infinity> cjwatson: But yes, we can discuss that out of band.
<cjwatson> mdz: yes
<xnox> i have been running raring from week1 and for about 2 months, I had quantal-updates & quantal-security enabled. I was still receiving packages from quantal pockets now and then. If opening a new dev-series will solve the problem of fixing next release first, I'm up for it.
<stgraber> I think at least the general idea of symlinking "development" (or similar) to the current dev release makes sense and doesn't hurt.
 * infinity nods.
<xnox> imho that would mean freasing release pocket at feature-freeze.
<infinity> xnox: That's a process failure that's beyond the TB to fix.  Bring it up with -release later, though.
<stgraber> assuming people have to change their apt config manually to that and we don't do weird things like using this by default in our pre-release images
<doko> cjwatson, it probably could help preparing the opening of the new release. however this currently can be done too by using non-virtualized PPA's, only that using the new release would be more visible
<mdz> #vote Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu as a "rolling release" rather than having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Please vote on: Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu as a "rolling release" rather than having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<mdz> wording ok?
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<cjwatson> well
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<cjwatson> "rolling release" has a ton of baggage
<mdz> suggested alternative wording?
<stgraber> I don't like the rolling release wording either (because it's not)
<ogra_> rolling development release ?
<infinity> Development release.  Or Development series.
<cjwatson> drop 'as a "rolling release"'?
<cjwatson> The sentence is fine without that
<stgraber> cjwatson: +1
<mdz> #vote Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu without having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Voting still open on: Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu as a "rolling release" rather than having to explicitly upgrade
<infinity> It's not a release.  And rolling itself has other baggage.
<mdz> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from mdz
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<cjwatson> mdz: oh?
<mdz> trying to find a way to cancel the vote I alread ystarted
<cjwatson> ah
<AlanBell> you have to endvote
<mdz> that will say that we confirmed that thing that we just agreed to change the wording of
<stgraber> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from stgraber
<cjwatson> how about we all -1 and then endvote
<cjwatson> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from cjwatson
<mdz> THE MEETING BOT IS ABOUT TO TELL A LIE
<mdz> oh
<mdz> NOW IT'S GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH
<mdz> #endvote
<ogra_> lol
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu as a "rolling release" rather than having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:3 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion denied
<AlanBell> yeah, do that
<mdz> #vote Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu without having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Please vote on: Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu without having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<mdz> sorry for all the noise
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<mdz> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Enable users to continuously track the development focus of Ubuntu without having to explicitly upgrade
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<mdz> ok that leaves the question of doing additional maintenance work on LTS releases
<cjwatson> to me, lots of this was stuff we're already doing
<infinity> Indeed.
<cjwatson> but then there's a handwave about lots more stuff we could do
<mdz> what needs deciding?
<ScottK> "required upgrades to newer versions of platform components" was the major change.
<infinity> And of the stuff we're already doing, some of it could be done better, but that's implementation, not policy.
<stgraber> to what extent do we need TB approval for that? It sounded to me like most of it can be done through the regular process by just having the SRU team change its criteria a bit
<mdz> what determines which upgrades are "required"?)
<ScottK> That seems to me approximately the last thing we should inflict on users of LTS releases.
<cjwatson> "required upgrade" I think means "in -updates with the same package name
<cjwatson> "
<infinity> I think there's a huge can of worms here, where assuming stable API/ABI isn't always true.
<mdz> cjwatson, that seems tautological
<cjwatson> rather than the X-stack approach of "rename a bunch of libraries", or putting things in -backports or PPAs
<cjwatson> ^- why it's not tautological
<infinity> We do this already for leaf packages (Firefox), and that's fine, but core system libraries WILL break your system when you didn't think they would.
<cjwatson> I think there are lots of things we can/should split out of this, but I'm not sure we're going to get it done here
<mdz> cjwatson, I'm not sure I follow
<cjwatson> things I can think of include:
<mdz> so the status quo is that there's a set of stuff that goes into -updates
<cjwatson>  - applying better autotesting to -proposed -> -updates transitions
<cjwatson>  - some kind of blessed-PPA system
<mdz> what is proposed to change about htat?
<micahg> infinity: firefox has a reason that it's needed for security updates
<cjwatson>  - better -backports infrastructure and advertising it better
<cjwatson>  - explicit SRU policy changes to weaken restrictions on some packages
<cjwatson>  - probably more
<mdz> the example given is upgrading Unity
<infinity> cjwatson: I think those break into two broad categories of "stuff that's just implementation fluff" and "stuff that needs broader discussion, not a TB vote".
<cjwatson> mdz: I am trying to clarify Mark's "required upgrades" vs. "optional upgrades" terminology into terms that the rest of us understand
<mdz> ok, we're out of time
<stgraber> I think I'd ideally like to see backports be replaced by blessed PPAs so we can better cover the case where we backport a whole stack and may want to support multiple version of that stack in parallel. But this would likely be a lengthy discussion that should only reach the TB when we have a concrete proposal.
<cjwatson> "required upgrades" -> we put it in -updates and you get it automatically
<mdz> seems like we can pick this up in 2 weeks given it doesn't change anything until next year, right?
<mdz> or is it proposed to be retroactive?
<cjwatson> "optional upgrades" -> we put it in something like -updates, but you have to opt in in some way (e.g. selecting a different kernel flavour)
<xnox> webkit is joining firefox support model for LTS releases.
<cjwatson> I think we can pick it up in two weeks either way, and/or continue by mail
<ScottK> Re Unity, look at the number of packages affected by bug 1154229, the new  Unity stack FFe, and ask if that's reasonable to deal with post-release.
<mdz> ok
<ubottu> bug 1154229 in unity-scope-gdrive (Ubuntu) "[FFE] New Unity Dash" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154229
<infinity> mdz: Some of this already applies to precise, and may be retroactive if we decide to do things differently, but I don't think the LTS stuff is urgent.
<micahg> xnox: same thing, security reasons
<mdz> ok, we'll pick up the rest at the next meeting
<mdz> which will be chaired by...
<mdz> #topic chair for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: chair for next meeting
<cjwatson> Unity is I think an unfortunate example, as I tried to cover in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-March/001531.html
<mdz> I think we're going alpha-by-nick, no?
<mdz> so it would be pitti?
<cjwatson> Yes
<stgraber> didn't pitti cover for a missing chair lately?
<mdz> who is conveniently not present to object. DONE
<mdz> yes he did
<stgraber> I think he did 2 meetings ago
<mdz> I don't recall who it was though
<stgraber> so it probably should be soren then (or me)
<mdz> ok, soren then
<mdz> Next chair: soren
<mdz> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 18 22:02:59 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-18-21.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-18-21.01.html
<mdz> thanks all
<ogra_> thanks !
<cjwatson> That was actually more of that topic than I expected to cover
<cjwatson> So thanks
<stgraber> mdz: thanks for chairing!
<mdz> np
<lool> good night
<JackYu> thank you:)
<stgraber> ScottK: I think I'd like to talk with the current backports team at some point in the near future to figure out whether we can get some kind of proposal which would cover the way we currently do backports and the way some people currently do them (outside of -backports).
<ScottK> stgraber: Sure thing.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-19
<arosales> Hello
<arosales> I think I am on point for todays meeting
<arosales> shall we get started ?
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 19 16:01:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<arosales> we really need to do a better job of updating minutes, actions, and sending out that information; especially me :-)
<arosales> before I jump in could we get a quick hello from folks for the Ubuntu Server meeting?
<zul> hi
<Daviey> o/
<arosales> I'll be following the agenda @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<plars> o/
<jamespage> o/
<smoser> o./
<smb> \o
<arosales> great, thanks and o/
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> Daviey: I think the call for A2 testing is no longer relevant, correct?
<arosales> Daviey: perhaps a call for Beta testing?
<arosales> jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<arosales> and one more for james
<arosales> jamespage discuss QA representation at Server Team meeting
<arosales> jamespage: are those valid and if so complete?
<jamespage> first still outstanding
<jamespage> second completed three weeks ago
<arosales> jamespage: thanks.
<arosales> jamespage: do you want an action for milestone testing?
<arosales> sorry for milestone docs
<jamespage> yeah - leave it on
<jamespage> I will get to it in the end
<arosales> james_w: ok
<arosales> # action jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<arosales> hmm didn't register
<arosales> #action jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to milesone documentation updates
<arosales> I'll also take the liberty to give Daviey an action item
<arosales> #action Daviey send call for Beta testing
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey send call for Beta testing
<arosales> #topic Raring Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Raring Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> so we are past Beta2 release
<arosales> and marching towards User Interface freeeze
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
 * arosales will step down through these four
<arosales> bug 1064527
<ubottu> bug 1064527 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "detect_ipmi needs improvement. detects non-existant device in nested kvm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064527
<arosales>  roaksoax around?
<arosales> smoser: any updates on this one ^
<arosales> bug 1073463
<ubottu> bug 1073463 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "User-configurable files are not installed in /etc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073463
<arosales> this one also is maas related
<smoser> no work on that detect_ipmi bug has been done to my knowledge.
<arosales> smoser: how about on the user-config files one?
<smoser> not that i know of.
<arosales> smoser: ok
<arosales> bug 1092715
<ubottu> bug 1092715 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Raring) "udevadm trigger --action=change not working in quantal and raring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1092715
<arosales> hallyn: any updates on this one?
<arosales> hallyn: was this in connection with bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1103022 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1103022 in qemu (Ubuntu) "70-udev-acl.rules needs to put g+rw on /dev/kvm" [High,Fix released]
<hallyn> arosales: fixed
<arosales> hallyn: is this fixed in raring too?
<hallyn> yes.  not yet sru'd to earlier releases
<arosales> hallyn: status in the bug looks to be confirmed, and in progress for the distro tasks.
<arosales> hallyn: is it appropriate to move to fix available and comment?
 * hallyn doesn't knwo what that means :)
<hallyn> it's fixed in raring.
<arosales> hallyn: sorry let me state it differently
<arosales> hallyn: could you update the bug to reflect its current state of being fixed (ie fix available) with a supporting comment?
<arosales> bug 1130610
<ubottu> bug 1130610 in horizon (Ubuntu Raring) ""SyntaxError: invalid increment operand" when parsing JavaScript using Firefox" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130610
<hallyn> bug 1103022 shows as fix released.   maybe you m ean the other one
<ubottu> bug 1103022 in qemu (Ubuntu) "70-udev-acl.rules needs to put g+rw on /dev/kvm" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103022
<arosales> jamespage: do you have 1130610 in progress?
<arosales> hallyn: I am referring to 1092715
<jamespage> yes - this will be fixed with the grizzly rc1 upload for horizon
<jamespage> its fixed in the trunk testing PPA
<hallyn> oh.  right.  arosales: that bug is not fixed, and likely never will be.  can you un-mark it targeting the release ro whatever?
<arosales> jamespage: thanks
<hallyn> i'll add a comment clarifying
<arosales> hallyn: could you add a comment into that bug so folks know why the status is as such
<arosales> hallyn: thank you
<arosales> :-)
<arosales> thats it for bugs.
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> well above the trend line
<arosales> zul: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-openstack-grizzly progressing ok?
<arosales> smoser: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-image-access ok ?
<smoser> we're making progress. slowly.
 * arosales reviewing BPs in the "red"
<smoser> yep. it is in the right color at the moment.
<arosales> smoser: ok, any tasks that need postponing, or not quite yet?
<smoser> not quite yet.
<arosales> smoser: ok
<arosales> thanks
<arosales> jamespage: how is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-seeded-qa-workflow
<jamespage> not well
<jamespage> its lower priority that other pieces so its not getting focus
<arosales> jamespage ok, any blockers?
<jamespage> other than time, no
<arosales> or just time and queue
<arosales> jamespage ok
<arosales> Daviey: how is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-cloudarchive ?
<arosales> or zul ^
<arosales> smoser: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-openstack-ubuntu-images also progressing ?
<smoser> dependent on the image-data... so :-(
<arosales> ok
<arosales> rbasak: any time for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-apt-improvements ?
<arosales> not sure norvald is here by the mysql one may need deferring (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-mysql_
<rbasak> I haven't had time to work on this recently - sorry. I still think I can get something in before raring release, but since we're past FF I don't expect anything to land
<arosales> hmm ok, any candidates to postpone?
<arosales> not sure if caribou is around either, but https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-kdump-tool may need some evaluation
<arosales> ok, that wraps up BPs
<Daviey> arosales: servercloud-r-cloudarchive is progressing well.. no concerns
<arosales> rbasak: may want to see what tasks you can postpone for the apt BPs
<arosales> Daviey: ok thanks.
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> mramm and hazmat were at pycon last week and has a poster session as well as a talk at Postgres day
<arosales> I think the next event on the list is OpenStack
<arosales> April 15-18
<arosales> any others?
<arosales> #link https://juju.ubuntu.com/Events/
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<arosales> any questions for hggdh and updates from hggdh?
<smb> arosales, -EWRONGPERSON?
<hallyn> ^ i swear i updated that,   did someone change it back?
<arosales> hmm https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands needs updating
<hallyn> plars: howdie :)
 * arosales will do that now
<arosales> sorry plars
<plars> hi
<arosales> any questions for plars or updates from plars ?
<plars> not too much from me today... there are a few of the conf file issues if someone wants to take a look
<plars> http://10.98.0.1:8080/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-upgrade-quantal-server/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=server-tasks,label=upgrade-test/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<plars> I did have one question, about ceph testing
<plars> are there any further plans for that still?
<arosales> jamespage any ceph testing plans?
<jamespage> hrm - yes
<jamespage> but I've got sidetracked
<jamespage> I have got some stuff running the the CI lab for multi-node ceph testing
<arosales> plars http://10.98.0.1:8080/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-upgrade-quantal-server/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=server-tasks,label=upgrade-test/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log is taking a bit to load for me . . .  not sure if others are seeing this.
<jamespage> plars, I think the utah test adds limited value as its so unlike an actual ceph deployment
<arosales> and timed out
<jamespage> :-)
<plars> jamespage: if you have it covered there, then all is well, just wanted to know if we needed to do anything with the tests still lingering (but disabled) in our jenkins right now
<jamespage> plars, can you give the external jenkins URL when referring to results please
<plars> ah, sorry
<plars> one sec
<plars> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-upgrade-quantal-server/ARCH=amd64,LTS=non-lts,PROFILE=server-tasks,label=upgrade-test/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/results/obsolete_conffiles.log
<arosales> ah better
<plars> that's all from me then
<arosales> plars: so colord and cups config it looks like
<arosales> ok
<arosales> any other questions for plars?
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<arosales> smb hello :-)
<smb> Not much to report. Pending review/sponsoring for Xen in Raring. Currently checking on a Xen regression which started in Quantal but requires a certain HW combination to trigger (Intel CPU and I suspect x2apic, though the latter is just guessing).
<smb> ..
<arosales> smb: ok thanks for the update
<arosales> any questions for smb?
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<arosales> rbask: any updates on ARM?
<arosales> I think rbask was here earlier . . .
<arosales> any ARM related questions?
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<arosales> Any other items to discuss?
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting: Tuesday 2013-03-26 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> thanks for joining smb, jamespage, Daviey, zul, roaksoax, plars, smoser, hallyn
<jamespage> arosales, thanks for charing!
<arosales> glad to
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 19 16:41:04 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-19-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-19-16.01.html
<hallyn> \o
<Daviey> thanks arosales
<arosales> sure, np.
<arosales> rbasak: I think I forgot to mention you, :-/ thanks for participating.
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 19 17:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<smb> o/
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sconklin> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<cking> o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> R/master: worked on adding support for a new arm soc.
<ppisati> R/omap4: still waiting input if we can drop the omap4 dekstop image.
<ppisati> R/nexus7: debugged an issue about display brightness.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-delta-review               || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-secure-boot             || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-aarch64                 || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-version-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-arm-kernel-maintenance     || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||           || hardware-r-kernel-misc                || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || hardware-r-kernel-config-review       || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || rtg       || hardware-r-delta-review               || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> The above summarizes the remaining work items owned by individuals on
<ogasawara> our team for the rest of the 13.04 cycle.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Raring Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have rebased Raring to the latest v3.8.3 upstream stable kernel and
<ogasawara> uploaded.  We have also started tracking the v3.9 kernel in an
<ogasawara> unstable-3.9 branch.  We have rebased that branch to v3.9-rc3 but not
<ogasawara> yet uploaded.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Raring:
<ogasawara>   * Thurs Mar 28 - 13.04 Final Beta Freeze (~1 week)
<ogasawara>   * Thurs Apr 04 - 13.04 Final Beta Release (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-03-19 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 69 CVEs on our radar, with 21 CVEs added and 6 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until tiday (Feb. 26):
<bjf>   *   Hardy - Nothing this cycle
<bjf>   *   Lucid - In Prep; (2 commits)
<bjf>   * Oneiric - In Prep; 4 upstream releases; (100 commits)
<bjf>   * Precise - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (150 commits)
<bjf>   * Quantal - In Prep; 1 upstream releases; (164 commits)
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>   * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf> >>
<bjf> >> Note: This is the week the last Hardy and Oneiric kernels may be built.
<bjf> >>
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 19 17:04:10 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-19-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-19-17.00.html
<smb> thanks jsalisbury
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<BobJonkman1> Hi LoCoLeaders: Are there still LoCo Council meetings? There's one scheduled at 20:00UTC according to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda but I see no activity here...
<czajkowski> yes but there is no agenda
<czajkowski> so we're taking part in the on air
<czajkowski> with jono with other mebers of the Leadership governance community
<BobJonkman1> OK, thx!
<BobJonkman1> Can I add a ReApproval  item for Ubuntu-ca to the LoCoCouncil agenda myself?
<BobJonkman1> (for next time, obviously_
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> it needs to be on 24 hrs in advance
<BobJonkman1> :)
<BobJonkman1> For 18 April, then.
<czajkowski> great
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-20
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> PING! beuno, cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat, head_victim, hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg, n0rman, Pendulum, PabloRubienes. Meeting time.
<jared> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 20 12:03:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is jared. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<jared> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for March 20, 2013. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<jared> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<jared> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<jared> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<jared> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<jared> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<amachu> jared: Hi
<tvoss> jared, hi
<jared> amachu: gday :)
<airurando> hi jared
<jared> #voters cjohnston Destine Pendulum jared
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum cjohnston jared
<jared> Ok, so looking at the page airurando is the first applicant off the ranks. While we read over your application page and wiki if you can please give us a brief introduction to yourself airurando that would be great.
<airurando> Hi Everyone
<jared> #subtopic airurando
<airurando> My name is Mike O'Donohue and I am a very active member and administrator of the Ubuntu Ireland LoCo
<airurando> my wiki page is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mikeodonohue
<airurando> I am a passionate advocate for ubuntu here in Ireland
<airurando> I am heavily involved in the organisation of, and participation in, the majority of Ubuntu Events held here in Ireland
<airurando> Over the past 9 months I have lead the effort to reboot the Irish LoCo in an effort to rekindle greater activity within the team
<airurando> My daughter is way more famous than me in Ubuntu circles.  Orla was the community pick winner of the inaugural Ubuntu Women Project World Play Day Competition in 2010
<airurando> I'm a microbiologist by trade
<airurando> That's me in a nutshell.  I'm happy to take any questions you may have
<jared> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ie/
<czajkowski> \o/
<jared> For those people unsure how to get to the LoCo page to see involvement
 * czajkowski is here to cheer for airurando 
<ebel> me too
 * tdr112 me too
<zmoylan> and me
<jared> Quite the cheer squad :)
<czajkowski> \o/
<airurando> thanks czajkowski, ebel, tdr112 and zmoylan
<jared> airurando: well done reinvigorating a Loco, I know from experience that can be a challenging role
<czajkowski> I'd just like to echo folks, airurando has been a great asset to the Ubuntu-IE community, always ready to lend a hand
<ebel> aye, very passionate and hard working
<airurando> thanks jared
<zmoylan> you can always depend on airurando to turn up at every meeting or event
<ebel> yeah, and he has often got much further to travel
<ebel> he really makes an effort
<jared> #vote airurando to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: airurando to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<amachu> airurando: good job. but then why took so long for applying?
<cjohnston> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjohnston
<Destine> +1 excellent on LoCo
<meetingology> +1 excellent on LoCo received from Destine
<airurando> amachu: not being technical I was hesitant
<jared> +1 good work with the Loco, I hope you are able to continue the energy levels into the future
<meetingology> +1 good work with the Loco, I hope you are able to continue the energy levels into the future received from jared
<jared> #voters cjohnston Destine Pendulum jared hggdh
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum cjohnston hggdh jared
<Pendulum> +1 great work!
<meetingology> +1 great work! received from Pendulum
<jared> airurando: the hesitancy is common, but community support is just as valuable as technical support.
<amachu> airurando: fine. may be at ubuntu-devel, it should have been the case
<amachu> +1 great job and continuos.
<hggdh> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from hggdh
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: airurando to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<czajkowski> yay
<czajkowski> well done amachu
<czajkowski> airurando:
<airurando> Wow...thank you cjonston, Destine, jared, Pendulum, amachu and hggdh
<jared> Congratulations airurando :) Well done and I look forward to hear how well you're doing into the future
<tvoss> airurando, congratulations :)
<airurando> this is amazing
<airurando> thank you all so much
<airurando> honoured
 * czajkowski looks forward to getting airurando blog on planet :) 
<tdr112> great news
<tdr112> well done airurando
<Destine> airurando, congrats!
<airurando> thanks tvoss and good luck
<hggdh> airurando: thank you
<tvoss> airurando, thank you :)
<zmoylan> congrats airurando
 * airurando is delighted
<airurando> thanks zmoylan
<airurando> thanks tdr112
<ebel> Congrats airurando
<airurando> thanks ebel
<jared> #subtopic tvoss
<tvoss> Hi all
<jared> Now we move on to the second application, if you can please give us a brief intro tvoss while we read over the application
<tvoss> jared, sure :)
<tvoss> again: Hi all
<tvoss> My name is Thomas VoÃ and I have been using Ubuntu since the 4.10 days
<jared> #voters cjohnston Destine Pendulum jared hggdh amachu
<meetingology> Current voters: Destine Pendulum amachu cjohnston hggdh jared
<tvoss> however, before joining Canonical around 11.10, I mostly used Ubuntu and advertised it to friends, family and co-workers.
<tvoss> When joining Canonical, I spent my first few weeks on ramping up the QA efforts around Ubuntu in preparation for 12.04. I then focused on teaching Chromium pixel perfect scrolling
<tvoss> before starting to work on the Ubuntu Touch project. There, I designed and implemented the platform abstraction layer that allows us to selectively reuse certain Android drivers and services.
<jared> tvoss: Just out of curiosity, how long have you been involved in the Touch project?
 * k1l cheers up for tvoss \o/
<tvoss> jared, in the Ubuntu Touch project (as in mobile)? From the very beginning
 * ogra_ joins k1l and pulls out his pompoms
<jared> tvoss: cool, just never sure as projects that new it's hard to judge looking at launchpad team membership join dates.
<hggdh> hi ogra_ :-)
<cjohnston> What's Mir?
<ogra_> (to cold here for a miniskirt, so bear with me :) )
<tvoss> cjohnston, Mir is a next-generation display server
<ogra_> cjohnston, the systemd of display servers ;)
<tvoss> right now, I'm working as a technical architect at Canonical, focussing on unity and mir, working towards a cross-formfactor future
<tvoss> k1l, ogra_ thanks :)
<tvoss> and that's pretty much me
<hggdh> tvoss: please give us a bit, discussing it
<jared> tvoss: I like the inclusiveness of your goals.
<tvoss> hggdh, sure :)
<tvoss> jared, thank you
<jared> #vote tvoss to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: tvoss to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjohnston> +1 to the moon!
<meetingology> +1 to the moon! received from cjohnston
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<Destine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Destine
<hggdh> +1 even with ogra cheering ;-)
<meetingology> +1 even with ogra cheering ;-) received from hggdh
<ogra_> hahaha
<cjohnston> poor ogra_
<hggdh> :-)
<tvoss> cjohnston, thank you :)
<jared> +1 awesome work and glad to see such impressive goals.
<meetingology> +1 awesome work and glad to see such impressive goals. received from jared
<cjohnston> no respect ogra_, no respect..
 * tvoss hugs ogra_ for cheering
 * ogra_ hugs tvoss 
 * hggdh hugs ogra_, and wonder when paths will again cross
<amachu> +1 and wish mir comes out really good
<meetingology> +1 and wish mir comes out really good received from amachu
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: tvoss to obtain Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<ogra_> hggdh, next physical UDS ... i'm sure there will be one again ... one day
<jared> Congratulations tvoss, I look forward to hearing all about Mir in the coming months.
<airurando> congrats tvoss
<hggdh> tvoss: welcome!
<tvoss> thank you all :) to those cheering and to those voting :)
<tvoss> jared, thank you
<ogra_> hggdh, after tvoss made us all famous :)
<hggdh> LOL
<jared> tvoss: well prepared application to, makes life very easy for us.
<k1l> congrats tvoss and airurando
<tvoss> ogra_, no pressure :)
<Pendulum> tvoss: congrats :)
<Destine> +1 on the physical uds!
<tvoss> jared, thank you, dholbach helped a lot :)
<tvoss> airurando, thank you :)
 * tvoss feels honoured, too
<airurando> great line tvoss:  thank you all :) to those cheering and to those voting :)  (i reiterate it)
<dholbach> congratulations tvoss!
 * tvoss hugs dholbach ... thank you
 * dholbach hugs you all back :)
<jared> Nice to see such a variety in applicants tonight, goes to show there are many ways of contributing.
<jared> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 20 12:33:58 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-20-12.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-20-12.03.html
<jared> Just for the sake of the logs the meeting is close, happy to discuss other issues if wanted :)
 * hggdh gets off to new office
<jared> hggdh: shiny
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<ev> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 20 15:02:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> xnox slangasek stokachu ogra jodh doko barry bdmurray cjwatson stgraber ev
<ev> win!
<xnox> win!
<ev> hah
<ogra_> pfft
<ogra_> ots cold at the edge :)
<ogra_> *its
<xnox> * mobile packaging followed up, good progress, but not merged yet.
<xnox> * carry over from last week: please remove guile1.6 bug #1154491
<xnox> * u1 ubiquity plugin FFe not granted, left in the branch
<xnox>   lp:~xnox/ubiquity/main-u1
<xnox> * waiting on dinstall, to sync boost1.53 into raring/universe to
<xnox>   replace boost1.50. Will help with transitioning to it in S.
<ubottu> bug 1154491 in guile-db (Ubuntu) "Please remove guile-1.6 from the archive" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154491
<xnox> * Uploaded ubiquity fixing a few UI / usability bugs targetted for
<xnox>   raring.
<xnox> * Helped design team to create and land ubiquity-slideshow changes for
<xnox>   raring.
<xnox> * upstart file bridge code review.
<xnox> * Followed up questions on:
<xnox>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile
<xnox> * Still have two high installer bugs to fix in release tracking
<xnox> * PSU RMA'ed, new PSU arrives on monday, hopefully I'll have my
<xnox>   machine all working then.
<xnox> ..
<slangasek>  * FFe wrangling
<slangasek>  * SRU processing of maas
<slangasek>  * work with pitti on initramfs-tools regression caused by libudev transition (bug #1154813)
<ubottu> bug 1154813 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Boot broken with initramfs-tools 0.103ubuntu0.5b1 - wait-for-root doesn't wait" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154813
<slangasek>  * work on dropping obsolete armadaxp images from the archive
<slangasek>  * discussions about how to support Panda boards going forward in light of no upstream 3d driver support
<slangasek>  * upstart MP reviews
<slangasek>  * discussion on bug #967229; had a flash of insight about a possible useful upstart core event, proposed on the mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/upstart-devel/2013-March/002428.html
<ubottu> bug 967229 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Text mode shown briefly with various "cryptic" texts when logging out or shutting down" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967229
<slangasek> (done)
<stokachu> (my bugs)
<ogra_> do we have a final decision for the pandas ?
<stokachu> bug 778627 - uploaded, waiting on sru approval
<stokachu> bug 1121874 - test package built, waiting for testing from interested parties
<ubottu> bug 778627 in bash (Ubuntu Precise) "In natty, bash completion now quotes shell variable references rather than expanding them" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778627
<stokachu> bug 1013798 - need to take a look at latest upstream work and hopefully get a sru built by end of week.
<stokachu> (other reported bug tasks)
<stokachu> bug 1109327 - infinity is assigned, however, chris arges is offering his assistance in getting debdiffs written up and attached.
<ubottu> bug 1121874 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu) "MySQL launch fails silently if < 4MB of disk space is available" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1121874
<stokachu> bug 982961 - someone marked this fix released pre-maturely, assignee is curious if this messes up any pre-existing workflow. I verified that precise was tested in comment #22 and applied tags properly, will this still be picked up by the janitor bot?
<ubottu> bug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013798
<ubottu> bug 1109327 in eglibc (Ubuntu Quantal) "who command gets "who: memory exhausted" for certain inputs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1109327
<stokachu> bug 1023069 - Needs sponsor/approval
<stokachu> bug 1057358 - Needs approval
<ubottu> bug 982961 in iptables (Ubuntu Precise) ""RATEEST" and "statistic" modules are broken " [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982961
<stokachu> bug 1130097 - Looks like it was sponsored but it doesnt look like it was uploaded yet
<ubottu> bug 1023069 in debootstrap (Ubuntu Lucid) "Packages was corrupt" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023069
<stokachu> preparing for seg sprint next week
<ubottu> bug 1057358 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Precise) "dhcpd in isc-dhcp-server-ldap cannot read /etc/ldap/ldap.conf due to missing entry in apparmor profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057358
<stokachu> - Worked with arges in developing/deploying latest seg dashboard
<ubottu> bug 1130097 in ubuntu-geoip (Ubuntu Precise) "geoclue-ubuntu-geoip doesn't support proxies" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130097
<stokachu> - New project for integrating salesforce accounts, cases, etc with seg dash and bridging relevant launchpad.net data (https://github.com/debugmonkey/python-salesforce)
<stokachu> misc:
<stokachu> - been working on a perl launchpad authorization/client library, purely research and experimentation.(https://github.com/battlemidget/Net-OAuth-LP)
<stokachu> (done)
<slangasek> ogra_: nothing "final", but we think we're keeping the builds in raring
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_>  * added changelog syncing to phablet images sync script
<ogra_>  * pulled android-x86 source down from 01.org to start building x86 emulator images (took only three days to download :P )
<ogra_>  * set up seed and ubuntu-touch-meta for starting to build raring ubuntu-touch images
<ogra_>    (seed is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.raring)
<ogra_>  * ubuntu-touch and convergence power-mgmt discussion
<ogra_>  * meetings about raring ubuntu-touch builds
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_>  * start wildly poking around in android-x86 until it is stripped down enough to us as a base for ubuntu-touch qemu emulation
<ogra_>  * start on the x86 buildd for git android image builds work
<ogra_>  * move nexus7 desktop images to pxz (do we still want that or will that image just go away in the near future ?)
<ogra_> ..
<ogra_> slangasek, ok
<ogra_> ppisati, ^^^ :)
<jodh> - blueprints:
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: no progress.
<jodh>   - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:
<jodh>     - Created FFE for upstart (bug 1155205)
<ubottu> bug 1155205 in upstart (Ubuntu) "FFE Request for Upstart in raring" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155205
<ogra_> (.. meant done btw)
<jodh>     - Added apport hook for Upstart.
<jodh>     - Raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-monitor GUI/CLI tool
<jodh>       (awaiting review - hint, hint all upstart devs :-).
<jodh>     - Tweaks to upstart-file-bridge (now in trunk).
<ppisati> slangasek: you mean desktop or server? because we don't have the pvr-omap driver wrt 3.8
<jodh>     - Good progress on libtestupstart.py (required for new DEP-8 tests).
<jodh>     - Raised MP on gnome-session to emit 'desktop' events for
<jodh>       users jobs that will ensure a fully operational desktop
<slangasek> ppisati: desktop
<jodh>       environment.
<ogra_> ppisati, desktop with 3.5
<jodh>     - Blog post on Upstart Sessions in Raring (in progress).
<jodh> - boot:
<jodh>   - Uploaded libnih 1.0.3-4ubuntu16.
<jodh>   - Wrote an apport hook for mountall.
<jodh>   - Investigating bug 1154040.
<ubottu> bug 1154040 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Upgrading to 1.7 on raring caused system to crash" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154040
<jodh>   - Raised bug 1157713 after identifying the failure cause.
<ubottu> bug 1157713 in upstart "upstart tests which run without inotify fail occasionally" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157713
<jodh> - misc:
<jodh>   - Appraisal stuff (ongoing).
<jodh>   - Sprint prep. admin.
<jodh> - TODO:
<jodh>   - look at steves quiesced event and respond.
<jodh>   - Upstart FFE work.
<slangasek> ppisati: I talked to ogasawara, the tentative plan is to just carry the quantal kernel in raring with no additional work on it
<jodh>   -
<jodh> Ä´
<jodh>  
<jodh> (ignore the last dash :-)
<bdmurray> I don't think doko or barry are around so I'll start
<bdmurray> modified bug-bot to comment on SRU bugs that may have a regression in the -proposed version of the package
<xnox> stokachu:  http://pad.lv/1023069 does this need sponsoring an upload, or just publishing in -proposed by SRU team?
<bdmurray> wrote a unit test for rate of crashes for errors
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023069 in debootstrap (Ubuntu Lucid) "Packages was corrupt" [Undecided,In progress]
<bdmurray> investigation into failed to retrace crashes on errors
<bdmurray> set up postgres / oauth in lxc version of errors
<bdmurray> updated 000-default in errors charm to have the right paths
<bdmurray> errors: modified package crash rate to take into account hours passed in the day
<bdmurray> errors: modified package crash rate to use standard deviation
<slangasek> ogra_: nexus7 pxz>  I don't remember this ever being a requirement at all?  There was concern about reducing the download size of images that would need to be deployed OTA, and xz was the solution there, so maybe this is useful as general build infrastructure work - but I don't know that we care about it for the n7 desktop image specifically
<bdmurray> worked on a filter for home page based on the logged in user
<bdmurray> resolved an issue with add_teams in errors and not committing data to the database
<bdmurray> code reviews for evan
<bdmurray> merged / improved fix for update-notifier bug 887650
<ubottu> bug 887650 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Upon inserting Ubuntu liveCDs older than current install, it still asks to upgrade" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887650
<bdmurray> test case creation for session-installer bug 1056545
<ubottu> bug 1056545 in sessioninstaller (Ubuntu Quantal) "session-installer crashed with AlreadyCalledDeferred in callback()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056545
<bdmurray> merge proposal for lightdm partial fix for bug 967229
<ubottu> bug 967229 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Text mode shown briefly with various "cryptic" texts when logging out or shutting down" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967229
<bdmurray> done
<cjwatson> Image building:
<cjwatson>  Set gfxboot default language to zh_CN for UbuntuKylin, and add a suitable background image.
<cjwatson>  (spec:foundations-r-future-release-infrastructure) More cdimage Python rewriting.
<cjwatson>  Finally killed off private branch of cdimage, so the whole thing is now open-source again at last.
<cjwatson>  81 commits to lp:ubuntu-cdimage in the last week ...
<cjwatson>  (spec:foundations-1303-cdimage-android-builds) Got IS to poke a firewall hole from PS Jenkins to nusakan:ssh.
<cjwatson>  (spec:foundations-1303-cdimage-android-builds) Set up "pending" symlink (OMG the bikeshed) and started to work with QA on figuring out how to get Jenkins to update "current".
<cjwatson> +1 maintenance:
<cjwatson>  Fixed unresolvable dep-wait in bsdmainutils.
<cjwatson>  Fixed tarantool build failure (over-optimistic assembly on i386).
<cjwatson>  Fixed various autopkgtest failures (ubiquity, software-properties, aptdaemon)
<cjwatson>  Fixed ruby-ffi build failure: this involved multiarching Tk and fixing multiple problems in ruby1.8.
<cjwatson>  Fixed slof build failure, using a cross-compiler.
<cjwatson>  Poked a bit at the Haskell transition, although a lot of it is beyond me.
<cjwatson>  Resolved an ambiguous Recommends in libpackagekit-glib2-14 which caused component-mismatches output to differ with germinate >= 2.6.
<cjwatson> Misc:
<cjwatson>  Fixed bug 1130284 (applied LibreOffice's patch to fix crash on rendering incremental Malayalam text input).
<ubottu> bug 1130284 in ICU "Libreoffice crash when typing some Malayalam text using ibus" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130284
<cjwatson>  Fixed bug 869825 (confusing Swiss keyboard layout descriptions).
<stokachu> xnox: looks like it needs both
<ubottu> bug 869825 in console-setup (Ubuntu Raring) "French (Switzerland) is no longer a layout choice in the installer" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869825
<cjwatson> ..
<ogra_> slangasek, it was a requirement for being able to re-pack the images on the fly before downloading so you can install on something else than the 8G model ... the sparse file overheaed make_ext4fs adds gets to big for flashing if the tarball doesnt get smaller
<ogra_> s/downloading/flashing/
<xnox> stokachu: ack.
<stgraber> Feature work:
<stgraber>  - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)
<stgraber>   - Pushed user jobs to dbus, gnome-session and gnome-settings-daemon. Now in the archive.
<stgraber>   - Prepared test version of gnome-session with desktop-start/desktop-end events. Will upload later today.
<stgraber>   - Started looking into our default Xsession scripts that need porting to upstart.
<stgraber>  - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)
<stgraber>   - Usual code review.
<stgraber>   - Roadmap for 1.0 and Linux Plumbers planning.
<stgraber>   - Release 0.9~rc1, got an FFe and uploaded to raring. 0.9 final is expected in 2-3 weeks and will be bugfix only so I'm going to try to get it in 13.04.
<stgraber>   - Some LXC/Android debugging.
<stgraber>  - Networking (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-networking)
<stgraber>   - Added an extra patch to isc-dhcp to fix a MAAS bug where clients would get two IP addresses assigned to them.
<stgraber>  - Mobile Networking (BLUEPRINT: client-1303-converged-network-stack)
<stgraber>   - Activated the new SIM cards to test dual-stack 3G (multiple PDP contexts)
<stgraber>   - Requested hardware to test ofono/Android integration
<stgraber>   - Rebased early NM+ofono patch on current NM, sent to cyphermox for debugging/testing
<stgraber>   - Attended G+ Hangout for networking QA
<stgraber>  - Mobile updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1303-single-image-update)
<stgraber>   - Had several interesting discussions with various people
<stgraber>   - Updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/Mobile to better reflect the way our current builds work
<stgraber>   - Some more scheduled discussions to discuss apps/local-packages and try to get a clearer picture of the whole thing before I start prototyping it
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - Spent most of Thursday getting the Beta 1 out, pretty much everyone but Ubuntu Desktop and Server participated
<stgraber>  - Fixed lintian upgrade issue (caused by a recent lintian being uploaded to quantal's extra repository a while back)
<stgraber>  - Prepared the Technical Board discussion on our release changes by re-reading all the various threads (quite a lot of e-mails ;))
<stgraber> Other time spent:
<stgraber>  - Spent half a day on the phone with airlines/travel agencies to get some flights changed and some others booked, anyway, I should now be pretty much ready for April/May :)
<stgraber>  - Peer reviews
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Continue planning the mobile update process and implement a prototype (need to reflash my Nexus7)
<stgraber>  - Upstart user jobs work (porting remaining Xsession, adding desktop-{start|end} event)
<stgraber>  - ifupdown SRU to quantal and precise
<stgraber> (DONE)
<slangasek> ogra_: ok.  I think fixing that for the n7 desktop image is a low priority, the priority is to get images for the n7 building for touch with as much of the stack as possible coming from the raring archive
 * ogra_ puts on a life vest ... being prepared for the flood
<ogra_> slangasek, yeah thought so
<ev> sorry, got pulled into #webops
<ev> - Brought the design of https://errors.ubuntu.com in line with other
<ev>   *.ubuntu.com *.canonical.com properties. The tables should be much easier to
<ev>   read. The pages look a lot less busy.
<ev>   - Work in progress: http://ubuntuone.com/0xSR2uux0f40gn1sjvYHeY
<ev>   - Redesigned the legend and navigation (to hell with qa.ubuntu.com) based on
<ev>     Matthew's mockup:
<slangasek> that's ok, but your time's up now so you'll have to only paste half
<ev>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=site-front-page.png
<ev>   - Implemented Emily's suggestion for grouping the x-axis months and dates
<ev>     into boxes over the weekend, with a lot more learning of d3.js along the
<ev>     way. Unfortuantely this doesn't look right so we're back to the drawing
<ev>     board.
<ogra_> haha
<ev> haha, you wish
<ev> - You can now log in to https://errors.ubuntu.com from the front page. Thanks
<ev>   to changes from Brian, the default view is packages you're subscribed to.
<ev>   This was also needed to make getting at the 'create' not require first going
<ev>   to a bucket or instance page.
<ev> - Debugging Swift with jjo.
<ev> - We're now 100% on Swift. NFS is dead \o/. We now also do Random Early Drop on
<ev>   the core submission Apache frontends.
<ev> - Made big improvements to the logging system for the retracers. With this and
<ev>   the above change, core submission should be much more reliable and quick to
<ev>   fix problems in.
<ev> - Fixed some issues in error submission as found in the OOPS reports on:
<ev>   https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops-local
<ev> - Implemented the first phase of weighting the average errors per calendar day
<ev>   (bug 1077122, RT 60205). Found a way to make the back population idempotent.
<ev>   Woo. Blocked on webops.
<ubottu> bug 1077122 in Errors "Machine weighted at 100% 89 days after last report, 0% 90 days after" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1077122
<ev> - Investigation into sending package installations and removals to a separate
<ev>   service from daisy.ubuntu.com to better inform the "rate of crashes changes"
<ev>   portion of phased updates. Discussion with Tom and James Troup, then Steve
<ev>   and Brian. Tabled for the first cut of phased updates. It's a relatively
<ev>   straightforward service to implement (save idempotent counters in a
<ev>   distributed database being an unsolved problem in open source code), but
<ev>   we're going to try to model our way out of this.
<ev> - Started building the new BucketVersions (sorry about the dates, my clock was
<ev>   off by some distance) and found a way forward with our usage of counters.
<ev>   Counters will be used as the quick but rough calculation, repaired nightly by
<ev>   reading from wide rows. This will also make this sort of back-population a
<ev>   lot easier:
<ev>   http://code.launchpad.net/~ev/oops-repository/bucket-versions
<ev> - Code reviews for Brian.
<ev> - Fixes to our juju charms to match recent changes to lp:daisy and lp:errors.
<ev>   We're finally moving services into prodstack, now that the core file storage
<ev>   is on Swift!
<ev> Other:
<ev> - Google Anayltics statistics are making me sad. I need to send an internal
<ev>   mail to get more developers using it. Blocked on opening it up to the wider
<ev>   Ubuntu developer audience (hi slangasek ;)).
<ev> (done!)
<ogra_> wow
<ogra_> if you would drop some linewraps you could be as short as stgraber
<ogra_> (hmm, that did come out wrong)
 * slangasek raises an eyebrow
<slangasek> any questions?
<ogra_> i meant the text ... only the text !
<stgraber> ogra_: ;)
<stgraber> ogra_: I was wondering if infinity had some bad influence on you lately ;)
<ogra_> hah
<infinity> *cough*
<ogra_> he definitely always has
 * hyperair notes that line breaks make you taller.
<ev> ogra_: don't go acting like keybuk and claim that the 80 character rule is stupid: https://twitter.com/keybuk/status/311278639150944256
<ev> I hate wrapped text.
<ev> with a passion.
<ev> err unwrapped
 * ogra_ has a 5760x1080 screen here ... needs quite big fonts to make 80 chars fit the width 
<cjwatson> wide lines are for people who don't have enough side-by-side terminals
<cjwatson> (or vertically-split vim buffers)
<slangasek> does your IRC client not wrap it for you/
<slangasek> my IRC window is not 80 characters wide :P
<ogra_> it would if the line would even reach the side
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<ev> slangasek: textual, so no
<bdmurray> bug 670096 came from the oem team
<ubottu> bug 670096 in OEM Priority Project precise "Ubuntu fails to boot from ISO if there's a NTFS partition with Windows hibernated on it." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670096
<ev> cjwatson: agreed
<slangasek> ev: ...
<stgraber> ev: that reminds me I need to copy my vimrc over to my shell machine. Expect more wrapping to 80chars after that ;)
<bdmurray> its just assigned to me for notification purposes
<slangasek> ev: I assure you, irssi which is textual knows how to wrap long lines for you and the result looks much better here than manual line breaks at 80 ;)
<slangasek> quick, let's turn this into a spaces-vs-tabs flamewar
<ogra_> LOL
<xnox> bdmurray: hmm... that bug above sounds like something for stgraber to poke, given the lupin/casper references.
<slangasek> 670096> er, so I guess they will want that fixed for the next point release
<stgraber> I wonder whether we can find any relation between spaces-vs-tabs and vim-vs-emacs ;)
<ev> slangasek: I grew tired of typing /win 3497049302843208342 (http://www.codeux.com/textual/)
 * xnox have you voted in the "text editor madness" cup yet?
<xnox> https://www.rackspace.com/blog/text-editor-madness-bracket-vote-for-your-favorite/
<slangasek> stgraber, cjwatson: looks to me like bug #670096 should actually be fixed in grub2, as it's a filesystem scan bug?
<ubottu> bug 670096 in OEM Priority Project precise "Ubuntu fails to boot from ISO if there's a NTFS partition with Windows hibernated on it." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670096
<stgraber> bdmurray: sounds like my kind of bug. Though as I mentioned on the call, my ability to run VMs is rather minimal at the moment so I could take a look at it but only once I get my laptop back
<slangasek> er, oh, this runs in the initramfs, not in grub
<slangasek> bdmurray: please assign to stgraber for follow-up
<slangasek> next?
<bdmurray> it loks like bug 1093055 needs a fix in precise
<ubottu> bug 1093055 in gcc-4.6 (Ubuntu) "internal compiler error: in build_zero_init_1, at cp/init.c:279" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093055
<cjwatson> bullet dodged
<stgraber> slangasek: looks like a bug with one of the fs scan casper does in the initramfs. I know we explicitly scan for swap and for cdrom drives, I'm guessing one of the two is the source of the problem. But I'd need to be able to reproduce it to look at it
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> stgraber: lupin's a casper add-on, in this case - the original analysis doesn't look too implausible
<slangasek> bdmurray: looks to be only relevant for an SRU of gcc-4.6; why is this bug a priority?
<cjwatson> gcc-4.6 - I suspect that'd be backed up behind the thread in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-March/002265.html
<slangasek> yep
<stgraber> cjwatson: there's that proposed commit: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ossug-hychen/ubuntu/precise/lupin/fix-670096/revision/190?start_revid=190 but I'd need to look into all the possible consequences (in general, not panicing on unknown fs sounds like a good plan)
<cjwatson> Yeah, indeed check the control flow since I expect it's non-obvious
<bdmurray> ah, okay moving on then
<bdmurray> there are a couple of wubi bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1155704
<ubottu> bug 1155704 in Wubi "13.04 installer doesn't create user account" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155704
<bdmurray> and bug 1134770
<ubottu> bug 1134770 in Wubi "Wubi fails to detect 12.04.2 and 13.04 AMD64 ISO" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1134770
<slangasek> hmm
<slangasek> it may be best to address this by not releasing wubi with 13.04, if it's not currently in good shape
<bdmurray> more generally there is bug 1078959
<ubottu> bug 1078959 in Wubi "Wubi installer/website should warn about potential data loss with root.disk corruption" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078959
<slangasek> not sure I agree with the thrust of that
<slangasek> yes, ntfs corruption could nuke your whole Ubuntu install, but why is that a likely outcome?
<cjwatson> it was more of a problem before we spent lots of effort on making sure we always unmounted cleanly, I think
<xnox> wubi doesn't work with windows8 quick hibernation, and no work is done on making wubi installer disabled that or work with it somehow.
<slangasek> cjwatson: do you want to follow up on that bug to clarify?
<slangasek> xnox: right
<slangasek> and Wubi is obviously not relevant to phones and tablets
<ev> :(
<ev> end of an era
<slangasek> we should be downplaying Wubi as an install option, rather than investing effort into fixing it
<slangasek> ev: bug #1 is fixed
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<slangasek> (launchpad lies ;)
<ev> hahaha, indeed it is
<cjwatson> I don't want to blow off bcbc as he's pretty much the top user supporting wubi
<ev> thanks Apple (and Google)
<xnox> realisticly i don't see it fixed in less than a month, fully validated, qa'ed, uploaded, signed, published, with Freeze exceptions granted....
<bdmurray> one of hte the forum links was about a 12.10 but the others were about 11.04 and 11.10
<slangasek> cjwatson: well - could you follow up in a non-blowing-off manner then? :)
<xnox> slangasek: note that valve / steam advertise wubi as a way to try ubuntu/steam on linux.
<cjwatson> slangasek: heh.  done
<slangasek> cjwatson: ta
<slangasek> xnox: yes, we've communicated to Valve that this is not something we're
<slangasek> - able to support them in
<slangasek> well, I should say, I've communicated to the business folks that this is the case
<xnox> ack.
<slangasek> maybe they're telling Valve something entirely different ;P
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
 * xnox emacs tetris is cross-platform surely that's enough gaming for everyone.
<bdmurray> slangasek: no, how will we go about downplaying wubi as an install option.
<slangasek> bdmurray: where is it advertised currently?
<cjwatson> ev: remind me where the wubi log goes for diskimage installs - is it in the windows temp directory?
<slangasek> I think we should not release wubi at all with 13.04, not include it in the release announcement, and preferably drop any links from the main download page
<bdmurray> I guess I'll look into where wubi is advertised.
<xnox> slangasek: drop it from the ubuntu.com or make it a page that one cannot get to via site map?!
<xnox> http://www.ubuntu.com/download "checkout windows installer" just below desktop is wubi
<slangasek> xnox: it may be something we want to keep wrt past releases, I'm not sure
<xnox> which takes one to wubi mini-site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/windows-installer
<slangasek> ah, indeed
<cjwatson> it's a bit less prominent than it was
<cjwatson> I think it used to be at the top
<xnox> that later page already has windows8 /uefi warning.
<slangasek> so either we should lose that link from http://www.ubuntu.com/download, or we should make sure 13.04 doesn't get added to the release list
<slangasek> xnox: warning about Windows 8 because of SB, not because of quick hibernation
<stgraber> slangasek: would we still build the wubi diskimage for 13.04 then or drop them too?
<slangasek> stgraber: drop
<infinity> +1 to that.
<stgraber> slangasek: ok, I'll update the manifest then
<stgraber> and we can probably turn off the cronjobs too
<slangasek> bdmurray: you're following up on the website side?
<cjwatson> seems worth some kind of announcement though!
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> stgraber: can you announce it on ubuntu-devel before you go shutting it off?
 * infinity nominates slangasek for the announcement, since he feels so strongly.
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> ok, I'll announce
<slangasek> stgraber: can you wait for my announcement before shutting things off? ;)
<stgraber> I'll do the cdimage/manifest changes post-announcement
<bdmurray> I'll take care of the website bits
<stokachu> could someone let me know if any of the bugs i reported are on anyones radar?
<cjwatson> we still have to fix 1134770 for 12.04.3 IMO
<cjwatson> (the vmlinuz vs. vmlinuz.efi one)
<xnox> stokachu: i'll look at debootstrap one.
<stokachu> xnox: cool man thanks
<slangasek> stokachu: from your descriptions I didn't see any that seemed to require intervention - are there particular ones that you need us to take action on?
<slangasek> stokachu: bug #982961, the janitor bot won't care if it's "fix released"
<ubottu> bug 982961 in iptables (Ubuntu Precise) ""RATEEST" and "statistic" modules are broken " [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982961
<xnox> stokachu: the rest are a bit far outside my comfort zone.
<stokachu> slangasek: ok
<stgraber> stokachu: the isc-dhcp ldap one is on my radar for precise but not really high prio here, so let me know if you need it done ASAP
<stokachu> stgraber: just as long are you are aware of it thats ok with me
<stokachu> i posted my status to the relevant teams so if i hear anything back that requires urgent ill ping here
<stgraber> stokachu: there was a first SRU attempt for that one which got sponsored but they got caught by the usual trick in debian/series which is that patches under a specific line will get reverted by debian/rules, making that specific upload a no-op ;)
<cjwatson> stokachu: 982961> setting the status back was good enough
<stokachu> cjwatson: ok cool
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * slangasek gets everyone out on time
<stokachu> stgraber: yea i think a new one was uploaded
<stokachu> err attached*
 * xnox notes to never buy bundled PSU with case ever again.
<slangasek> any other topics to cover in 30 seconds?
<infinity> stokachu: I have packages prepped for the eglibc one you highlighted, I just need to finish verifying the current SRUs.
<stgraber> stokachu: yep, there's a new debdiff that just needs bundling with another precise SRU
<stokachu> infinity: ok cool let me or arges know if you get to busy and we can do the processes work
<infinity> stokachu: I'm pretty sure the bug log even has links to the test packages I gave arges. :P
<infinity> stokachu: So, it seems odd that there needs to be offers of debdiffs after that.
<stokachu> infinity: ill have to look im just the messenger for that one
<infinity> (Maybe there weren't links, I dunno, didn't go read it again)
<infinity> But yeah, I should validate all the current pending bugs this afternoon, so eglibc can move on with life.  There are a few SRUs people want (none are critical, though).
<stokachu> infinity: cool man sounds good
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 20 16:02:11 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-20-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-20-15.02.html
<slangasek> that's a wrap
<ogra_> thanks !
<slangasek> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<stokachu> thanks :D
<jodh> thanks
<stokachu> spanks?
<xnox> cheers
<ev> cjwatson: ja
<cjwatson> ev: ta
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-21
<m_amine> Hello, I want to remove "samba" to prevent unnecessary updates, will this action cause problems ?
<dholbach> m_amine, can you ask in #ubuntu instead?
<dholbach> this channel is just for meetings
<m_amine> ok, thanks.
<dholbach> all the best!
<teolemon> any translators around ?
<teolemon> :-)
<dholbach> Gwaihir, pleia2, czajkowski, cprofitt, beuno? :)
<dholbach> hi teolemon
<pleia2> o/
<Gwaihir> o/
<beuno> o/
<teolemon> cqfd93 :-)
<cqfd93> yes!
<czajkowski> aloha \o/
<dholbach> and I just thought you typed your password into the wrong window :-)
<teolemon> hello hannie :-)
<YoBoY> Hi
<hannie> hi teolemon
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 21 17:03:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> welcome to the Community Council meeting :)
<pleia2> #chair dholbach Gwaihir czajkowski beuno cprofitt
<meetingology> Current chairs: Gwaihir beuno cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> it seems like we have 3 translation team members here at least already - shall we start with them? :)
<dholbach> and maybe round up the membership board folks in the meantime?
<pleia2> sure
<dholbach> perfect
<pleia2> #topic Translations team check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Translations team check-in
<Pendulum> I'm here. I'm not sure if anyone else from the membership boards
<Pendulum> could make it
<pleia2> Pendulum: great :)
<dholbach> welcome teolemon, cqfd93, hannie - anyone else here from the translations team?
<dholbach> how are you all doing?
<hannie> thanks dholbach doing fine
<dholbach> did you have some discussions about the things we talked about in our last meeting?
<cqfd93> thanks. doing fine
<teolemon> i pulled smg together
<teolemon> this afternoon
<teolemon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2013-03-21#
<teolemon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2013-03-21
<pleia2> smg?
<teolemon> something
<pleia2> teolemon: oh that's great
<czajkowski> that's very useful thanks
<pleia2> so we tried to get together a chat with dpm after last meeting, but he's been super busy and we weren't able to coordinate something between the time he replied and then went off on vacation (not sure when he's due back)
<dholbach> next week AFAIK
<dholbach> I love some of the ideas on the wiki page
<teolemon> for me i'm doing fine
<hannie> David Planella: I am currently out of the office until Mon 25th March 2012.
<teolemon> we're happy to report we've finished translating DDTP MAIN
<teolemon> MULTIVERSE
<teolemon> and
<teolemon> RESTRICTED
<dholbach> YES
<cqfd93> we're still working on main :-)
<teolemon> 400 strings
<dholbach> that must have been lots of work
<teolemon> come on :-)
<hannie> teolemon, congratulations. It is quite a job
<dholbach> do you feel like the list on the wiki page is complete or at least lists the most important problems?
<pleia2> oh, which translations teams are you from?
<teolemon> we've used automated translations from Google Translator Kit
<YoBoY> pleia2, french
<hannie> dholbach, I just replied to the translators list on that subject
<cqfd93> french (Sylvie Gallet)
<teolemon> the pad is bugging a lot
<teolemon> there are some extra spaces
<teolemon> i can't remove
<dholbach> thanks for replying on the mailing list, but I just meant https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2013-03-21# - do you think that's complete and lists the biggest issues you're looking at right now?
<hannie> ah, sorry
<Gwaihir> there's a couple of things in there that I guess will not easy fixable, if at all... .-/
<Gwaihir> the fuzzy thing is the first that comes to my eye
<dholbach> maybe it'd make sense to sort it by priority and then start commenting as a team and see what we can do about them
<hannie> good idea
<dholbach> for example the DDTP questions might be something where mvo could shed some light on
<Gwaihir> that makes sense, yes
<dholbach> and the GSoC idea is great
<Gwaihir> yes, he usually was involved in the past about that, I actually thought that that problem was already sorted out
<dholbach> ... if Ubuntu will be picked as a mentoring organisation
<pleia2> so, it looks like jcastro can add folks to the trello board - can those who want access bug him? :)
<pleia2> (we'll sort out admin after dpm gets back)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I can add whoever
<teolemon> also an item about scaling our process for the ddtp to all languages, and engage globally with Debian
<teolemon> yes please
<teolemon> i'd like to update it
<dholbach> is there any of the topics you'd particularly like to talk about or where you'd like to get some help with?
<hannie> Yes, Nightmonkey
<teolemon> a bunch of links about the ddtp
<jcastro> I just need to know which accounts to elevate?
<teolemon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/DDTP
<teolemon> pierre.slamich@gmail.com
<teolemon> @pierreslamich
<meetingology> teolemon: Error: "pierreslamich" is not a valid command.
<Gwaihir> hannie, does Nightmonkey work or it has the same timeout problem?
<hannie> Nightmonkey is not working anymore, which is very sad, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nightmonkey
<teolemon> LP still has the timeout issue
<teolemon> it works for restricted
<teolemon> kinda works for multiverse
<teolemon> and doesn't for main and universe
<dholbach> do you know if there's a bug filed for the issue?
<teolemon> yes
<czajkowski> teolemon: many of the times outs that are tagged critical should be fixed in the coming months
<dholbach> might be worth linking it in the wiki
<czajkowski> we're down to the last 100 crtical bugs
<pleia2> czajkowski: yay!
<teolemon> linked in the page
<czajkowski> but if you have a specific bug numbe rI can follow up on that for you and see when it will be fixed.
<teolemon> i hope to live long enough to see it solved :-)
<cqfd93> :-)
<czajkowski> we had over 300 :)
<czajkowski> so we're doing well
<teolemon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/+bug/869824
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 869824 in Launchpad itself "Doing a search in the ddtp-ubuntu project's translations templates times out" [Critical,Triaged]
<hannie> My collegue, Redmar, has written a nifty program to sort ddtp on popularity
<czajkowski> wil follow up on that tomorrow and let folks know when approximately it will get looked at
<teolemon> does he have the rights to sort it ?
<teolemon> my understanding is that the ddtp templates haven't been updated
<hannie> teolemon, it can be sorted offline
<teolemon> and reuploaded ?
<hannie> that's not (yet) possible
<teolemon> as we use automated suggestions from the bogus project, we translate online
<teolemon> so it's helpful for us if the online version is sorted
<hannie> yes, we had a discussion about that on the translators list
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> and something that worries me
<teolemon> it's not synced with upstream
<czajkowski> Is there something the CC can help with in the mean time?
<teolemon> some packages do not exist anymore upstream
<teolemon> and some strings have been modified
<dholbach> maybe it'd make sense to get mvo into the loop
<teolemon> and there's a patch
<teolemon> that sould be applied
<teolemon> see this bug
<teolemon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/+bug/1106174
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1106174 in Package Descriptions for Ubuntu "ddtp-ubuntu lp translations outdated in quantal" [High,Triaged]
<teolemon> been sleeping for 2 months
<dholbach> yeah, as I said: maybe best to ping mvo directly - he might know who to bug or what to do
<teolemon> ok
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> wow, this feels very productive already :)
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> do you do regular meetings in the team?
<teolemon> pinging dpm about the statistics tools
<teolemon> no
<teolemon> which is offline
<czajkowski> teolemon: do you have a link to it
<teolemon> oups
<teolemon> online for quantal
<teolemon> not avail for raring
<teolemon> http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ubuntu-12.10-translation-stats.html
<dholbach> maybe dpm could make the scripts for this available somewhere?
<trijntje> Hi all, sorry I'm late
<hannie> wow, so many languages
<Gwaihir> dholbach, I though it was already available...
<dholbach> ah ok... I didn't know
<dholbach> that might help get it up for 13.04
<dholbach> maybe a blog or mailing list post to get somebody take a look at the code
<Gwaihir> should be this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/ubuntu-translations-stats/trunk
<teolemon> we don't have access to the planet
<teolemon> dpm had
<pleia2> teolemon: are none of you Ubuntu Members?
<teolemon> nope
<teolemon> not me
<pleia2> translations certainly count toward membership, I'd highly recommend it :)
<teolemon> not sure about the others
<dholbach> you really should be! :)
<cqfd93> not me
<dholbach> and talk about the great things you do
<hannie> trijntje is
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership is the guide towards it
<pleia2> (one of the incentives is getting on planet to advertise your projects!)
<teolemon> it's not an issue about hosting
<teolemon> hum
<YoBoY> teolemon, I am, if you write the text I can publish it
<teolemon> could we have like a translation blog rather ?
<dholbach> I can tell from blog posts about added languages to the packaging/development guide that there is interest in that kind of stories
<teolemon> also
<teolemon> access to the social media accounts
<Gwaihir> teolemon, did the translation team have a dedicated blog? I do not remember that...
<dholbach> teolemon, you could just set one up on wordpress.com or something and get it added as a project blog to planet
<teolemon> nope
<pleia2> if an Ubuntu Member takes responsibility for it, a translations blog could be added (ubuntuclassroom and others just use a free wordpress.com blog)
<teolemon> we set up http://traduire.ubuntu-fr.org/
<teolemon> for the French team
<teolemon> and it's working great
<teolemon> in addition to the social networks
<teolemon> and all
<dholbach> teolemon, can you send a mail to dpm and me about the social media aaccounts?
<YoBoY> pleia2, I can take that responsability if it's fine for everyone
<pleia2> YoBoY: works for me
<YoBoY> (i have already all the right on that blog ^^')
<dholbach> +1
<pleia2> :)
<teolemon> takeover ?
<teolemon> ;-)
<YoBoY> nop, you still have to write the post ;)
<trijntje> I've tried to integrate my ddtp_popsort with the scripts that generate ddtp, but I haven't heard back from mvo about it
<hannie> who or what is mvo?
<pleia2> being mindful of time, are there other specific things we want to work through now, or should we invite follow-ups on email now that we've got things rolling?
<dholbach> mvo is Michael Vogt
<teolemon> to coordinate with Debian ?
<teolemon> mvo again ?
<teolemon> somebody else ?
<dholbach> hannie, the guy who wrote large parts of synaptic, apt, update-manager, software-center and other bits and pieces, a tea lover, huggable vegetarian hippie and good friend :)
<hannie> dholbach, thanks for the info ;)
<dholbach> mvo is a Debian maintainer too and knows the people in Debian who take care of DDTP
<teolemon> ok
<teolemon> also
<dholbach> he might be busy but at least have pointers
<teolemon> change of processes to ensure quality within a rolling release system
<teolemon> any additional info you could give us about that ?
<teolemon> in terms of technical implications ?
 * trijntje is just reading the wiki, isn't raring open for translation already?
<teolemon> yes
<teolemon> it's a summary from last time
<trijntje> teolemon: Oops, my bad
<pleia2> teolemon: the tech board decided to have a ongoing "development" release but 6 month releases will continue (no rolling release)
<pleia2> they just cut support for non-lts to 9 months (down from 18)
<hannie> March 21, UI freeze raring
<teolemon> so no potential issues for translations ?
<pleia2> teolemon: that's the hope, things should continue as before
<teolemon> potentially more frequent sync with upstream that could avoid duplication ?
<teolemon> in terms of translations
<Gwaihir> teolemon, I have to check, but translations in Ubuntu should be synced each time there is an upstream release of the same package
<trijntje> teolemon: I've started that discussion on the ML, but I haven't sumarised the results yet
<hannie> I do not see a great problem for translators
<teolemon> and finally Google Summer of Code
<teolemon> do you think it's worth creating a proposal ?
<trijntje> I agree with hannie: if we keep 6 month releases the impact on translators should be minimal
<dholbach> teolemon, bkerensa, lfaraone and dylanmccall are working on the application for ubuntu as a mentoring organisation - results from Google should be there in 2-3 weeks(?)
<teolemon> the issue is that we'd need a technical mentar
<teolemon> mentor
<dholbach> teolemon, they are points of contact and there's the ubuntu-soc@ mailing list
<teolemon> ok
<dholbach> teolemon, I'd try to do the following 1) agree in the team on a realistic set of things to work on, 2) ask on the mailing list who might be willing to mentor, 3) pick a student who you have confidence in and who maybe was part of the project before already or understands the project better
<dholbach> sometimes you can achieve 100% of all 3 points, but it might help
<dholbach> I'm very happy with how this meeting worked out - maybe it'd make sense to have a follow up meeting in the translations team and see what can be done about the issues we talked about?
<hannie> I'm all for it
<trijntje> dholbach: I'd like that, we are quite decapitated without dpm ;)
<dholbach> as we have the membership board lined up as well... is there anything else important you want to talk about or where you'd like to see help from the CC?
<pleia2> and feel free to ping any of us on irc if you run into trouble, we'll see what we can do :)
<dholbach> yeah
<hannie> that's good to hear.
<dholbach> all rightie
<pleia2> #topic Membership Boards catch-up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership Boards catch-up
<dholbach> thanks a bunch everyone for your tireless work!
<dholbach> big big hugs!
<trijntje> thanks everyone
<hannie> see you all
<dholbach> Pendulum, cyphermox: still there? :)
<Pendulum> I'm here :)
<dholbach> perfect!
<dholbach> how are the membership boards doing?
<pleia2> for reference here's the breakdown of members by hour slot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5634753/
<czajkowski> cheers pleia2
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards/SittingMembers
<pleia2> realized it was on the wiki :)
<Pendulum> In general good. We've cut down to one meeting a month for each board because there weren't enough applicants for each board to meet twice
<czajkowski> cjohnston: hggdh IdleOne ping
 * pleia2 nods
<czajkowski> Pendulum: makes sense
<Pendulum> IdleOne said he couldn't make it
<czajkowski> ok
<cjohnston> hi
<Pendulum> The biggest thing at the moment is looking at restaffing this year
<czajkowski> Pendulum: do you think this will be hard?
<czajkowski> much interest?
<pleia2> so it looks like 2 expiring, 1 inactive for 12:00, and 2 expiring for 22:00
<cjohnston> pleia2: I believe we also had a 2200 resign
<pleia2> ah yes, greg-g
<Pendulum> right
<pleia2> so 3 and 3, and eleanor and jared coming up in a few months
<pleia2> (both of them are 12:00
<Pendulum> I think there was a 4th on the 2200 board, as well
<pleia2> ah yes, beuno
<Pendulum> yeah
<pleia2> no, I counted him
<pleia2> 22:00:
<pleia2> Iulian Udrea
<pleia2> Martin Albisetti
<pleia2> Greg Grossmeier
<pleia2> right?
<pleia2> 12:00:
<pleia2> Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre
<pleia2> Penelope Stowe
<pleia2> Russell John
<Pendulum> Norman is also up on the 2200 board this year
 * beuno looks down
<pleia2> ah yes, so n0rman (22), eleanor and jared (12)
<Pendulum> right
<pleia2> so we can do another call in july to fill those three spots
<dholbach> or do it all in one go? :)
<Pendulum> The question we were wondering is if we want to do 2 calls this year
<pleia2> yeah, probably not
 * dholbach is for doing one
<Pendulum> as of right now, the people who are up in 2014 are all on the same date so it's only 1 call
<Pendulum> I like the idea of only doing 1 call a year
<dholbach> +1 :)
<czajkowski> +1
<Pendulum> So far the other folks on the boards seem to agree with me.
<Pendulum> I figure that makes it easier for the CC as well as the boards
<pleia2> so do we ask everyone expiring this year to resubmit their name if they want another term? (if they don't want another term, they can just stay on until their term expires july/august)
<pleia2> yeah
<beuno> +1
<dholbach> so shall we extend memberships until July? that'd give us more time to write the announce and everything(?)
<Pendulum> That makes sense to me. I think just about everyone on the 1200 board is planning on resubmitting
<pleia2> I'm planning on putting out the call for nominees today, hoping it won't take more than 3 weeks or so
<dholbach> I'll take an action to send a mail to the ubuntu council teams list to check the other councils/boards who's expiring in the S cycle
<pleia2> 2 week nomination period, 1 week for CC to decide
<pleia2> #action dholbach to send a mail to the ubuntu council teams list to check the other councils/boards who's expiring in the S cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: dholbach to send a mail to the ubuntu council teams list to check the other councils/boards who's expiring in the S cycle
<czajkowski> that makes sense
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to send out call for nominations for membership boards
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to send out call for nominations for membership boards
<dholbach> excellent
<pleia2> so, 5 spots on 12:00, 4 on 22:00
<Pendulum> One thing, personally, I'd really like to make sure is stressed in the call for nominations is that they do need to attend meetings
<pleia2> noted
<czajkowski> Pendulum: yes that's fair
<pleia2> now that's sorted out, any other things we should talk about? :)
<dholbach> :)
<pleia2> ok, thanks for joining us Pendulum!
<Pendulum> I can't think of anything :)
<pleia2> #topic other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: other business
<Pendulum> you're welcome! thanks for having us!
<cjohnston> nothin else here
<dholbach> perfect!
<dholbach> big hugs!
<czajkowski> lovely :)
<czajkowski> thanks for joining folks
<pleia2> I reached out to jbicha regarding docs stuff to see if we can move past the desktop docs being in a "critical" state
<pleia2> (he hasn't yet formally stepped down, but I am told it's still coming)
<czajkowski> nods
<pleia2> at a google hangout earlier this week a few folks stepped up to help move docs stuff along (get a better understanding of the whole process so we can train new people, then work on onboarding docs for new contributors and finally announce accepting of new contributors)
<czajkowski> the hangout was good
<dholbach> pleia2, that's brilliant - did they say what kind of help they needed?
<pleia2> dholbach: nothing new than from our last meeting
<czajkowski> dholbach: I think jono was going to talk to you re docs :)
<ScottK> AFAICT, no one seems to be doing a lot of work coordinating server documentation.
<pleia2> no one we actually spoke to on the hangout was actually at the hangout, just folks interested in helping
<pleia2> ScottK: did one of the ubuntu development teams end up getting commit access?
<dholbach> czajkowski, ok
<ScottK> pleia2: Not sure.  I haven't actually gone back and tried.
<ScottK> I should do that.
<pleia2> yeah, I don't remember a resolution to that thread
<pleia2> essentially the core of all these problems is that people want to help, but the barriers to entry are too high, and folks who can help with lowering them are too busy
<pleia2> I'll keep server docs in mind as we move forward with desktop docs, thanks ScottK
<ScottK> Thanks.
<pleia2> ok, sounds like that's it
<pleia2> thanks everyone :
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> thanks a bunch!
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day!
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 21 18:05:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-21-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-21-17.03.html
<YoBoY> thanks everyone :)
<dholbach> pleia2, thanks for chairing
<hggdh> czajkowski: sorry, confused TZs
<cyphermox> oh, shucks. I thought the meeting wasn't until tonight :/
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-03-22
<JStalin> what's the status of ubuntu TV ??
<popey> JStalin: probably better off asking that in #ubuntu-touch or #ubuntu-tv
<JStalin> thx
<george1> hello everybody!
<george1> 188 silent people! who can see that in real world?
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-17
<mdeslaur> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 17 16:41:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<meetingology> jdstrand: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> erf
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 17 16:42:06 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-17-16.41.moin.txt
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 17 16:42:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> [ACTION] chrisccoulson send oxide and qtwebkit benchmark results to mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: chrisccoulson send oxide and qtwebkit benchmark results to mailing list
<chrisccoulson> that's done
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool. where did that go? I haven't gone through all of my email yet from being off friday
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, https://lists.launchpad.net/oxide/msg00003.html
<jdstrand> awesome!
 * jdstrand hugs chrisccoulson :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I have pending updates
<jdstrand> and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I just published a couple of usns, and I have a few more that are at the testing stage
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: (fyi, sb eattie is off today)
<mdeslaur> that's about it, I'll be going down the list after that
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I submitted v2 of the dbus-daemon patches upstream last friday
<jjohansen> \o/
<tyhicks> so now I'm looking at kdbus and helping out with apparmor work items this week
<tyhicks> if I can get to it, taking another look at the test-kernel-security.py failures on powerpc would be good, too
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm pulling my hair out, err working on apparmor again this week.
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<jjohansen> There where some qrt test failures that sarnold reported at the end of the week that we need to finish looking in to.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: that is 2.8.95 related?
<jjohansen> and there are still issues around ipc, with sockets
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> hrm
<jdstrand> do we expect 2.8.95 to land this week?
<jdstrand> (that is for sarnold and jjohansen)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I think so
<sarnold> jdstrand: I think so, there were more QRT failures on the nexus 4 than I expected, but it was rough even getting it to run there, so perhaps itshouldn't be a surprise
<jdstrand> hmm
<jjohansen> jdstrand: 2 of the failures are due to things not being supported in the test environment/platform and not being properly detected as such. The others I haven't looked into yet
<jdstrand> tyhicks: didn't you do qrt on the nexus 4?
<jdstrand> I thought it was working
<jdstrand> but might be misremembering
<sarnold> jdstrand: .. and I think the 2.8.0 apparmor packaging on the nexus 4 fails your test plan in the same ways as the new 2.8.95 apparmor fails it, so I'm hopeful there :)
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I'm pretty sure that I did
<tyhicks> but I'd guess that sarnold is talking about testing 2.8.95 on the nexus 4
<jdstrand> sarnold: I'm interested in hearing more specifics about that
<jdstrand> tyhicks: yes, but just said that 2.8.0 fails similarly
<tyhicks> oh
<jdstrand> sarnold: we can discuss outside of the meeting
<jjohansen> yep
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> also landing apparmor this week
<sarnold> and I still have juju, schroot, strongswan, glusterfs, and cgmanager MIRs to start and finish.
<sarnold> so I'm really hoping we can land apparmor today :)
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson you're up :)
<chrisccoulson> this week, i've got mozilla updates
<chrisccoulson> also planning to land oxide in the archive
<chrisccoulson> and finish my ever growing list of oxide code reviews :)
<chrisccoulson> and hopefully get https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/network-callbacks merged, which has turned in to quite a significant chunk of work now
<chrisccoulson> i think that's me done :)
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: network-callbacks is the lion's share of the UA overrides work you mentioned in the oxide meeting?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand,  it is. but it also contains hooks for storage access permissions (well, currently only cookies, but this is going to be extended to local storage, appcache, indexeddb and webdb as well) too
<chrisccoulson> and it has support for third party cookie blocking
<jdstrand> ack
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> he Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/slurm-llnl.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gksu-polkit.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lib3ds.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/google-authenticator.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libdigidoc.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> I have some questions related to our major deliverables for 14.04
<jdstrand> based on the oxide standup today, oxide should be landing in the archive this week. webbrowser-app will follow after that and there is still quite a bit to do, but it is still believed that we will deliver oxide (and other teams webbrowser-app, UbuntuWebView and webapp-container)
<jdstrand> that is awesome
<jdstrand> apparmor 2.8.95 seems like it is close and sounds like it should land this week. We really need to make sure it does to pave the way for the next update
<jdstrand> jjohansen: you mentioned that there is a bug related to ipc, with sockets. is that the remaining known bug?
<jjohansen> the as in singular? no
<jjohansen> its one of the remaining problems
<jjohansen> v5 behavior (old kernel should be fine)
<jdstrand> jjohansen: assuming 2.8.95 was fixed and landed in the archive, what is left for landing ipc?
<jjohansen> new kernel has issues
<jjohansen> jdstrand: there needs to be some revisions around ptrace, signals, and other policy
<jjohansen> there needs to be some fixes to the network code
<jjohansen> I think its doable this week
<jdstrand> jjohansen: the network code is doable this week?
<jjohansen> I think so
<jdstrand> is the sockets ipc bug for this week?
<jjohansen> yes I plan to fix that this week
<jdstrand> jjohansen: 'new kernel has issues' - is that the network code, v5 behavior, or something else?
 * jdstrand meant to add to his items this week to comment on the ipc policy
<jjohansen> jdstrand: there are a few things, network code, there is a replacement issue around compound labels, there needs to be a versioning behavior change around the xtrans table in the parser that is fed into the kernel
<jdstrand> ok. so, I'm just trying to create a list so I better understand where we are
<jjohansen> jdstrand: lets put it this way, its good enough to pass the current regression tests, but issues are known (which just means we need to add more tests)
<jdstrand> cause I'm starting to get nervous about ipc landing
 * jjohansen too
<jjohansen> oh and I need to do testing of it as a backport on precise and make sure its working right there
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is the versioning change for this week?
<jjohansen> some that should be working but I haven't tested yet with the latest kernel
<jjohansen> jdstrand: yes it is needed
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is the replacement issue around compound labels the socket issue or something else?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: it is something else
<jdstrand> is the replacement issue for this week?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I have a patch to fix it, but applying that patch causes the kernel to die for a different but related reason so I need to fix that
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> jdstrand: the replacement issue can be put off, as things can work with out it.
<jdstrand> jjohansen: were you able to upload test packages to the ppa based of sarnold's 2.8.95 from last week?
<jjohansen> compound labels just don't get updated correctly after replacement
<jjohansen> jdstrand: I have not, yet. I can do that today
<jdstrand> jjohansen: re ppa> well, only if it helps people. perhaps wait until you have the final packages we plan to upload since they may land tomorrow
<jdstrand> personally, I won't be able to install them today
<jdstrand> but could tomorrow
<jjohansen> okay
<jdstrand> sb eattie is off today, so delaying to at least tomorrow makes sense to me
<jdstrand> jjohansen: 'there needs to be some revisions around ptrace, signals, and other policy' - are you talking about policy language?
<jjohansen> yes, its minor
<jjohansen> the actual work won't take long
<jdstrand> ok, so known issues. iirc, no one really responded to the policy language changes in the thread
<jdstrand> of course, we worked through a lot of that before
<jdstrand> do we feel like the policy language is in good shape (other than this minor issue)?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ^
<jjohansen> I don't even know that I'd call it an issue, as looking for clarification, so we are happy with a final syntax
<jdstrand> I see-- so, "yes, the final syntax is very close"
<jjohansen> something that needs input from more than just me
<jjohansen> yes we are close
<jjohansen> we are talking about sugar, not functionality
<jdstrand> right. perhaps respond to the list saying the lack of response is blocking it landing?
<jjohansen> can do
<jdstrand> jjohansen: does this look about right> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7109323/
<jdstrand> oh, I forgot to ask about testing
<jdstrand> jjohansen: do you know where we stand on coverage for these new features?
<jjohansen> ptrace is pretty good, signal less so
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I know that is a lot in sb eattie's domain, but curious if you knew
<jdstrand> ok'
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> that said, signal is not as bad as it may seem. It is actually getting tested in several of the other regression tests
<jdstrand> so, I think I captured all that. I'd like outside of this meeting to discuss a plan to land this, with assigning people to do different things
<jdstrand> tyhicks: should we push the v2 dbus patches once upstream ACKs them?
<jdstrand> tyhicks: push to trusty that is
<tyhicks> jdstrand: that's something I've been wondering
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I think it would be a good idea
<jdstrand> trusty is 5 years LTS
<jdstrand> it seems like it would be
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I feel confident in them and have tested them a considerable amount
<tyhicks> I think so
<jdstrand> ok, we need to come up with a plan for all this stuff
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jjohansen> yeah I think that its a good idea, to push them in
<tyhicks> all except for the last 2 patches in the series are a drop-in replacement
<tyhicks> we wouldn't push those last 2 patches, becaues they depend on a dbus-daemon method that isn't in trusty's dbus-daemon
<mdeslaur> tyhicks: what's special about the last to?
<mdeslaur> oh
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: it is a new method to get a peer's security credentials
<mdeslaur> ok
<tyhicks> we would live with our current distro-patched org.freedesktop.DBus.GetConnectionAppArmorSecurityContext() method
<tyhicks> that's no big deal
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<tyhicks> thanks!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 17 17:38:41 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-17-16.42.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> \o
<infinity> o/
<mdeslaur> infinity: having a fun monday? :P
<stgraber> hello
<infinity> mdeslaur: Nope!
<mdeslaur> stgraber: hi!
<mdeslaur> hehe
<infinity> It's a miracle if I get any actual work done on Mondays, with all the meetings.
<infinity> So, I think we have apologies from slangasek and pitti today?
<mdeslaur> yep
<mdeslaur> how many do we need to be to have quorum?
<slangasek> in fact I may unapologize
<infinity> kees: You around?
<mdeslaur> slangasek: hi!
<infinity> I'm not actually sure what quorum is for the TB.  4?  Is this documented somewhere?
<slangasek> well, I suppose quorum only matters if we need to vote on something :)
<mdeslaur> true, but it was also to satisfy my curiosity :P
<stgraber> 4 sounds right
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 17 21:05:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting | Current topic:
<mdeslaur> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Action review
<stgraber> any besides the LTS stuff which we said we'd do by e-mail (I really need to reply to some of those...) I'm not sure that we have anything to vote on anyway
<stgraber> s/^any //
<mdeslaur> so, we still have kees' "MRE" item
<mdeslaur> but he's not here, so let's defer that for now
<infinity> I guess that carries, since he seems to not be around to speak to it. :P
<mdeslaur> does anyone have any other action items that aren't on the wiki page?
<mdeslaur> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
<infinity> We could take the LTS stuff from email to meeting, if we feel we're in a position to JFDI on some voting there.
<slangasek> did the Ubuntu GNOME people make it today?
<infinity> slangasek: FWIW, I agree with your "nothing shorter than 3y for an LTS commitment".
<slangasek> darkxst said he was interested in discussing
<darkxst> slangasek, hey, I am here
<mdeslaur> I'd prefer waiting for a reply to slangasek's email
<slangasek> darkxst: hello
<mdeslaur> oh, cool. hi darkxst
<slangasek> darkxst: hi - have you seen my mail today regarding the need for an overlap between LTSes to give users a chance to upgrade?
<darkxst> yes, I just replied now
<darkxst> only just woke up ;)
<darkxst> "Was simply not aware that upgrades aren't enabled until 16.04.1. Certainly our intention is to provide some overlap for upgrades."
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> and yes, we generally hold off on flipping the switch on the server regarding upgrades until the .1 point release
<infinity> If you're okay with providing 3y, I think we should just go with that and approve it, unless there are objections?
<darkxst> and if 3 years support is the minimum we will support that time frame,
<slangasek> and that's a common switch that affects all flavors, not something we could make a per-flavor exception for
<slangasek> I think "3 years minimum" is the consensus, at least among the TB members here
<infinity> Is anyone gathering up all the LTS statuses somewhere handily central, so we can do the LP changes required to mark all the packagesets?
<slangasek> if we have the 3-year committment, are we happy to approve Ubuntu GNOME for LTS?
<infinity> +1
<mdeslaur> +1
<slangasek> +1
<stgraber> +1
<slangasek> darkxst: welcome to the LTS :)
<darkxst> thanks ;)
<mdeslaur> [AGREED] Ubuntu GNOME is a 3 year LTS
<mdeslaur> gah
<slangasek> infinity: well, I'm gathering them in the sense that they're all in a suitable mailbox
<slangasek> infinity: but if I have access to tweak the packagesets, I don't know how; is that something you could take the action for?
<infinity> It, hilariously, take an LP MP to make it happen, IIRC.
<slangasek> and if you need me to send you the summary of LTS flavors I can do that
<infinity> s/take/takes/
<infinity> slangasek: If you want to summarize the flavour/support bits, I can handle the LP side.
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to send infinity the summary of flavor LTS support for adjusting in Launchpad
<meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to send infinity the summary of flavor LTS support for adjusting in Launchpad
<stgraber> Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Kylin => 5 years and GNOME, Xubuntu, Mythbuntu and Studio => 3 years
<stgraber> that's what I have in my notes here anyway
<slangasek> ok, stgraber steals the action
<infinity> Heh.
<infinity> stgraber: Triple check and drop me an email (or an MP, if you're feeling adventurous).
<slangasek> [ACTION] infinity to mark 14.04 LTS flavor support in Launchpad: Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Kylin => 5 years and GNOME, Xubuntu, Mythbuntu and Studio => 3 years
<meetingology> ACTION: infinity to mark 14.04 LTS flavor support in Launchpad: Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Kylin => 5 years and GNOME, Xubuntu, Mythbuntu and Studio => 3 years
<slangasek> there, it'll be in the meeting notes too
<mdeslaur> I gather we're all in agreement about those?
<stgraber> hmm, did I miss an e-mail from Lubuntu or did they not answer wrt LTS status?
<infinity> I have no objections, after the back-and-forth that was had about XFCE support seemed to come to a reasonable conclusion.
<slangasek> yes, I'm +1 for all of the above
<mdeslaur> +1 from me also
<gilir> stgraber, Lubuntu answered on tb mailing list :-)
<stgraber> gilir: oh yeah, sorry, just found it.
<stgraber> so Lubuntu 3 years
<infinity> Ahh, indeed.
<infinity> +1 to that too.
<stgraber> +1
<infinity> Does that actually make all the flavours LTS this round?
<stgraber> so that's kind of nice, we have all flavours participating in the LTS this time around
<mdeslaur> \o/
<infinity> Alright, we should probably commit that to LP this week, so the Final Beta is showing the right support lengths.
<infinity> Since everything currently says 9m across the board.
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other items they would like to discuss?
<stgraber> nothing here
<slangasek> not me
<infinity> Nein.
<mdeslaur> ok, moving on
<mdeslaur> #topic Check up on community bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Check up on community bugs
<mdeslaur> no open bugs
<mdeslaur> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Technical Board meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting
<mdeslaur> next in the list is sabdfl
<infinity> s/sabdfl/pitti/ I'd assume.
<mdeslaur> pitti: tag, you're it
<mdeslaur> and...we're done!
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 17 21:23:21 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-17-21.05.moin.txt
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone!
<infinity> Lovely.  Thanks.
<stgraber> productive, short and sweet, I like that! thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-18
<gaughen> okay y'all it's me this week
<gaughen> so let's get this party started
<gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 18 16:03:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<lutostag> o/
<rharper> \o
<rbasak> o/
<gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> o/
<gaughen> the only action item was mine to do something with vuds, well that's done since vuds is over.
<gaughen> #topic Trusty Development
<gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Trusty Development
<gaughen> less than a month to release
<smoser> o/
<smoser> weee!
<gaughen> Final beta is March 27
<gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<gaughen> jamespage, zul there's a critical neutron bug bug # 1288696
<gaughen> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1288696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1288696 in neutron (Ubuntu Trusty) "Unable to migrate from ovs to ml2 plugin" [Critical,Triaged]
<jamespage> gaughen, yeah - the upstream script is almost ready - should make rc1
<jamespage> (icehouse rc1)
<zul> gaughen:  still being reviewed
<gaughen> excellent
<gaughen> okay next topic
<gaughen> #subtopic Blueprints
<gaughen> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-servercloud-overview.html
<gaughen> I've been impressed with how folks are keeping them up to date
 * gaughen looks at smoser pointedly
<gaughen> I need to add a blueprint from the server readiness topic last week
<smoser> yeah. i'm working.
<smoser> thanks to everyone else who is keeping up.
<gaughen> #action gaughen to create a blueprint from server readiness topic
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen to create a blueprint from server readiness topic
<gaughen> hehe, just had to mess with you smoser ;-)
<gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<gaughen> hrmm, caribou isn't here
<gaughen> so there must not be any bugs! moving on...
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<gaughen> psivaa, anything to discuss?
<psivaa> not much from our side
<jamespage> wow - that was fast
<gaughen> cool
<jamespage> gaughen, I had two things to headsup on in the trusty bit
<gaughen> ooh
<gaughen> sure
<gaughen> what's up jamespage
<jamespage> so first - ceph; the firefly release schedule has slipped and it looks like firefly won't be released until after 14.04 release date
<jamespage> discussing that with SRU and release team at the moment
<zul> couldnt we do the same thing we are doing for openstack for ceph?
<jamespage> zul, we could - and that is one option; to push in the interim releases between now and firefly so the SRU in the end is minimal
<jamespage> we already have a MRE - I thing we could swing that
<jamespage> I'm going to discuss with sage upstream later
<zul> jamespage:  yeah like a 0 day sru
<gaughen> jamespage, this isn't the first slip though
<gaughen> right?
<jamespage> second; I declined to upload the 1.17.5 juju-core release to trusty as it drops the juju-mongodb support; sinzui is aware of this and is gating the next release on that being included
<gaughen> so are we confident that they'll make this new date.
<jamespage> gaughen, no - it was mean't to be early feb
<gaughen> ?
<gaughen> so, that worries me a bit, jamespage
<jamespage> gaughen, both of those things worry me alot
<jamespage> the first more than the second as I think the juju team will sort things this week
<gaughen> jamespage, I hope sage can give you the warm fuzzy that it won't slip again
<jamespage> gaughen, maybe :-)
<jamespage> anyway - that's all I had to raise re trusty dev
<gaughen> jamespage, anything else?
<jamespage> oh - actually
<jamespage> zul and I where discussing continued inclusion of savannah in trusty
<gaughen> you mean, saraha now ;-)
<jamespage> upstream just renamed for icehouse and the packaging is not 100% complete or tested
<gaughen> sahara
<jamespage> so we elected no to ship it
<gaughen> any risk with doing that?
<jamespage> we can re-introduce next cycle
<jamespage> not in my opinion
<zul> gaughen: no
<jamespage> its not a core project
<gaughen> excellent
<zul> we already have hadoop dont we anyways?
<gaughen> those packages are a bit dated.
<gaughen> anyhow, moving along
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
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<smb> Not much right now, just a kind of warning that I am working on the FFE for Xen 4.4 after which maybe we should check how well that all works within OpenStack (via libvirt).
<zul> smb:  are you just waiting for it to be uploaded now?
<gaughen> excellent, thanks smb
<smb> zul, Half that half on something that I recognize as a approval from the release tem
<smb> team
<zul> ack
<zul> if you need someone to upload it lemme know
<smb> zul, ok, will do
<gaughen> cool, thanks zul, smb
<smb> zul, ta
<gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<gaughen> rbasak, anything?
<rbasak> No updates from me. Any questions?
<gaughen> doesn't look like it. thanks rbasak
<gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<gaughen> not aware of any upcoming community events.
<gaughen> last week was vUDS, watch the videos.
<gaughen> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gaughen> any other topics?
<zul> yeah i should probably do that
<gaughen> zul, yeah! you should!
<gaughen> zul, jamespage tried to cover openstack :-)
<gaughen> okay, no open discussion?
<gaughen> 3
<gaughen> 2
<gaughen> 1
<zul> heh...well dont schedule uds when im on vacation then
<gaughen> lol
<serue> yeah i'm sure that was an accident
<gaughen> coincidence, total coincidence...... maybe ;-)
<gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gaughen> next week - same bat time, same bat channel - March 25 at 16:00 UTC
<gaughen> zul you're listed as next
<gaughen> but I know you did the last one
<gaughen> so fight it out with hallyn
<gaughen> as he's after you
<gaughen> anything else? because otherwise i'm ending this meeting
<gaughen> okay
<gaughen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 18 16:22:47 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-18-16.03.moin.txt
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 18 17:00:10 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Trusty
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<henrix> o/
<smb> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<jsalisbury> || apw       || core-1311-kernel                      || 4 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || core-1311-cross-compilation           || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || core-1311-hwe-plans                   || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> || ogasawara || core-1311-kernel                      || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || core-1403-hwe-stack-eol-notifications || 2 work items ||
<jsalisbury> || smb       || servercloud-1311-openstack-virt       || 3 work items ||
<jsalisbury> ||           || servercloud-1311-openstack            || 1 work item  ||
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Trusty Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> The 3.13.0-18.38 Trusty kernel has been uploaded to the archive.  This
<jsalisbury> is based on the v3.13.6 upstream stable kernel.  I would also like to
<jsalisbury> remind everyone that Trusty Kernel Freeze is fast approaching on Thurs,
<jsalisbury> Apr 3.  Please make sure to get any outstanding patches submitted to our
<jsalisbury> Ubuntu kernel team mailing list for review asap.  After kernel freeze,
<jsalisbury> all patches are subject to our Ubuntu SRU policy.
<jsalisbury> -----
<jsalisbury> Important upcoming dates:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<jsalisbury> Thurs Mar 27 - Final Beta (~1 week away)
<jsalisbury> Thurs Apr 03 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Saucy/Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Nov. 26):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - No changes this cycle
<bjf>   * Precise - No changes this cycle
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification
<bjf>   *   Saucy - Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 18 17:04:27 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-18-17.00.moin.txt
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council Meeting - 18 Mar 2014
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 18 20:01:33 2014 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting - 18 Mar 2014 | Current topic:
<jose> Hello, everyone!
<jose> as we have no current agenda items, meeting is basically done :)
<jose> thanks for attending!
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 18 20:01:51 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-18-20.01.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-19
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox, amachu, and chilicuil. Meeting time.
<system76chick> Hello!
<jared> Evening/morning/whatever it is in your time system76chick  :)
<jared> We're just trying to rustle up enough board members now
<system76chick> Back at ya! Very early here :) Awesome!
<jared> Sorry system76chick, we're still working quorum. micahg and I are here we need 2 more
<jared> !rmb
<ubottu> cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat,  hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg,  Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox, amachu, and chilicuil. Meeting time.
<jared> Ping!
<system76chick> Sounds good, I'm here!
<pleia2> I can pitch in if needed
<jared> pleia2: thanks that's a 3rd
<system76chick> Good morning Lyz, thanks for being here!
<pleia2> morning :)
<cprofitt> here
<jose> morning, everyone
<cprofitt> I can help as well
<jared> cprofitt: great you're the 4th :)
<pleia2> shall we begin?
<system76chick> totally!
<jared> pleia2: just setting up :)
<jared> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 19 12:20:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is jared. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jared> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for March 19, 2014. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<jared> Just as a quick introduction we're going to be running with 2 Community Council members joining us to fill quorum, thanks cprofitt and pleia2
<jared> There is precedent for CC members filling in on the membership board to reach quorum so while it's not a written rule we're going to run with it
<jared> #voters jared micahg pleia2 cprofitt
<meetingology> Current voters: cprofitt jared micahg pleia2
<jared> #topic system76chick 's membership application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: system76chick 's membership application
<jared> system76chick: can you please give a 2 - 3 sentence introduction of yourself to the board
<jared> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/system76chick
<system76chick> My name is Emma and I live in Colorado. I love Ubuntu and I'm the leader of the Colorado Ubuntu team.
<jared> system76chick: I see you've been involved with getting the Colorado back to being approved, can you explain a bit about what that entailed for you, is there much support over there?
<system76chick> I'm responsible for planning all our events, updating our team wiki, responding to new Colorado users on our mailing list and encouraging local people to start using Ubuntu by helping install on their computer. For our team approval, I created a plan to get our team more active and everyone was very supportive of my initiative.
<jared> system76chick: and how have you found the good people of Colorado? Do you get many regulars pitching in to help?
<system76chick> People come to my events and offer advice on how to get more active. My first release party had 20+ members.
<pleia2> that's quite good
<jared> system76chick: good effort really, these things can be hard to get motivation for
<system76chick> Team members help respond to mailing list inquiries if people don't email me directly.
<jared> system76chick: good to hear, I am looking over your application and see some testimonials which is great, are there any loco members here to cheer for you?
<jose> well, there's a loco council member, does that count?
<cprofitt> system76chick: how many years have you been involved with the Ubuntu community?
<system76chick> Most of my coworkers are part of the team, so it helps to work with them every day. My boss is very supportive of everything I try.
<micahg> jose: sure :)
<pleia2> that's great :)
<jared> jose: indeed, just seeing if there are locals as well :)
<system76chick> 2 years, Jose and Lyz hopefully!
<pleia2> it's 6:30 am there in CO :\
<jose> I wanted to mention how responsive system76chick was during the verification process, we tried to do this as quickly as possible and with her we got everything ready to go in less than a week
<jared> jose: that sounds like a well functioning team if they can put it all together in under a week.
<system76chick> Thank you Jose. You were a major help in that process. Your support really kept me going!
<jose> :)
<jose> the team is going good as far as the LC concerns, so yep!
<cprofitt> sounds like you are doing some good work system76chick
<system76chick> Thank you! We have 5 events in April!
<pleia2> wow, nice
<micahg> very nice
<system76chick> I hope to get our team blog updated, but I need to get volunteers from our team to help. That would be a great resource for new Ubuntu users in Colorado
<jared> system76chick: seems like we've run out of questions, so thanks for that
<jared> #vote Please vote on system76chick 's application for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on system76chick 's application for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cprofitt> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cprofitt
<jared> +1 good work with the loco
<meetingology> +1 good work with the loco received from jared
<jared> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on system76chick 's application for Ubuntu Membership
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats system76chick :)
<jared> #action system76chick to be added to the Ubuntu Members team
<meetingology> ACTION: system76chick to be added to the Ubuntu Members team
<system76chick> I'm an Ubuntu member now? That's awesome!!!!
<jared> Congratulations system76chick, thanks for a well prepared application. It made the job easy.
<system76chick> I'm so excited! I won't let you guys down, I promise!
<jose> congratulations, system76chick!
<cprofitt> congrats system76chick
<system76chick> Thank you, I really appreciate your support!
<jared> I can't see the other applicants here so I think that makes the meeting short
<system76chick> I appreciate everyone attending and hope you all have a fantastic day/night
<jared> system76chick: keep up the great work :)
<system76chick> Thank you!
<jared> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 19 12:45:22 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-19-12.20.moin.txt
<jose> thanks everyone
<jared> system76chick: I've added you to the ubuntu members LP team as well now
<system76chick> Awesome. Thank you Jared :)
<AlanBell> hi all, IRC meeting starting shortly, please fill your glasses
 * IdleOne puts on his gloves and protective helmet
 * MooDoo watches from behind protective glass
 * AlanBell watches from behind protective wine glass
 * hggdh goes create a bit of space for more coffee
 * MooDoo also watches his 2 year old runnind the living room watching his wifes ipad.
<AlanBell> ok, lets get started
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC Operator team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 19 18:03:04 2014 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic:
<IdleOne> o/
<AlanBell> agenda is over here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> not sure where the meetingology logs are for the last meeting, but here is the day log http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/01/22/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<AlanBell> no specific ation items recoreded but we did quite a bit of assorted stuff since then :/
<knome> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.log.html
<AlanBell> ah, silly me I was looking in the #meetingology channel not ubuntu-meeting
<AlanBell> ok, so moving on
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> just checking the tracker . . .
<AlanBell> no open tickets
<knome> what's the tracker URL, and is it publicly accessible
<AlanBell> for those that don't know, the tracker is an osticket instance running here http://ubottu.com/tickets
<AlanBell> tickets get created when people email the appeals address
<knome> ack
<AlanBell> it isn't publicly accessible, but every meeting we declare anything going on in it at a high level
<phunyguy> (here)
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> we have a bug though
<AlanBell> bug 892501 has been reopened, and we can discuss that in more detail in a later item on the agenda
<ubottu> bug 892501 in ubuntu-community "Floodbots - need a re-write to be under ubuntu operator team control" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892501
<AlanBell> but first . . .
<AlanBell> #topic The IRCC going forward
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: The IRCC going forward
<AlanBell> so, we have a newish IRCC, following the elections in December
<AlanBell> since then there have been rather a lot of stressful interactions and IdleOne has sent an email of resignation to the list
<AlanBell> so we are back down to 4 members, AlanBell Pici Tm_T hggdh
<AlanBell> there have also been other discussions and suggestions about the IRCC, whether it is right for the team and so on
<AlanBell> I would be interested in feedback from others on what we do from here
<not_rww> o/
<hggdh> so would I...
 * phunyguy ponders
<MooDoo> Has the resignation been accepted?
<AlanBell> all options are open, we could have a vote of confidence in the current IRCC, we could have a vote on whether there should be an IRCC, we could open an election to fill the seat, we could invite the CC to fill the remaining seat
<not_rww> AlanBell: in terms of immediate issues, I would prefer either IdleOne un-resigning and being not-chairperson, or sticking to 4 members. I don't think electing another person is a good idea at this time.
<hggdh> MooDoo: yes, it has
<AlanBell> MooDoo: good question
<phunyguy> I do not think it should go away.   The IRCC has it's place in my eyes, and to do away with it would leave a giant hole.  Just my two cents.
<knome> does the IRCC have the teams support and is it trusted to steer the team?
<IdleOne> I have already stated that I am willing to un-resign with the coditions that rww has mentioned.
<AlanBell> quite whether a resignation can be withdrawn, I have no idea, we don't have a procedural path for that as such, but if the CC agrees I would see no problem with it
<ikonia> I see a problem with it personally
<IdleOne> I think this might be something that the current four member, the CC, and myself might want to discuss.
<knome> i don't think you can force anybody to stay a member.
<ikonia> IdleOne: has resigned without notice or hand over - done, move on
<knome> if it's not accepted, the resigned memeber can just do nothing
<ikonia> you have 4 members - move on
<AlanBell> yeah, we can't "not accept" the resignation
<knome> and it is effectively the same as "accepting" the resignal
<MooDoo> I don't think it's as simple as that
<ikonia> it is as simple as that
<phunyguy> I agree that flipflopping resignations is probably not a good idea....
<AlanBell> whether it can be withdrawn is an open question
<MooDoo> imo if it's been 5 members, then it needs to be 5 members
<AlanBell> we don't neccessarily need to do anything about it
<knome> whether it can be withdrawn is up for the whole teams' approval, not the IRCC only
<ikonia> MooDoo: why ? why does it need to be 5 members
<ikonia> why the magic of 5
<AlanBell> we had 4 members for some time, we gave the casting vote to the CC
<IdleOne> knome: why? the whole team didn't get a vote on who got elected
<ikonia> someone doesn't want to do the job - thats fine, they  have left, thats fine too, why make an issue out of them coming and going
<phunyguy> ^ yes the odd number is what needs to be.  Not even.
<MooDoo> what phunyguy said :)
<ikonia> I'm sure 4 people can manage to work out a judgment
<AlanBell> ikonia: I am not really, but it would be a failure not to have this agenda item
<ikonia> and it can go to the CC if someone feels a real deal breaker is needed
<ikonia> AlanBell: it's good that it's on the agenda
<knome> "Members of the Ubuntu IRC Members Team are eligible to vote."
<IdleOne> knome: not all those members got to vote afaik
<MooDoo> ikonia: but going to the CC just drags things out surely when it can be sorted by the power of 5?  just my two cents :)
<AlanBell> knome: yes, that is the voting group, which isn't quite a lineup with the operator team
<ikonia> MooDoo: it can be sorted by the power of 4 quite easy
<cprofitt> I would prefer not to have the CC have to get involved just to break a tie
<AlanBell> IdleOne: all that group did, just not all operators are in that groups
<ikonia> these aren't life and deather changes, a "hung" issue has pretty much never happened
<knome> IdleOne, that's a shortcoming of the voting procedure, and does by no means mean that it's okay for the IRCC to withdraw a resignation
<AlanBell> cprofitt: mostly an accademic issue, we have never had a tie
<ikonia> exactly
 * cprofitt nods
<ikonia> so 4 members, move on,
<cprofitt> on the subject of resignation and withdrawl
<IdleOne> anyway, not a big deal for me. I resigned and I'll stick to my choice. I offered to help if the need was there but I don't want to cause more problems. So I am fine with not being on the IRCC.
<elfy> cprofitt: I'd agree with that
<cprofitt> I think the question is less about the resignation and more about what it implies
<ikonia> IdleOne: if you want to do it - do it, if you don't thats fine too, it's just the limbo state that seems pointless to drag out
<knome> if the irc members team isn't up-to-date, update it
<IdleOne> I suggest we consider this matter closed.
<not_rww> with 4 people, majority is 3. with 5 people, majority is 3. shouldn't make much of a difference in reality, especially since everyone's usually on the same page
<cprofitt> I can certainly appreciate that the resignation was done in the heat of the moment while emotions were running high
<not_rww> especially since IdleOne doesn't seem the sort of person to avoid giving input just because he's not on IRCC *ducks*
<cprofitt> I can understand not wanting to alow a person to un-resign...
<IdleOne> not_rww: I'm not one to hold my tongue that is for sure
<ikonia> in fairness there was a real short list of candidates and people got pushed into doing it because no-one wanted to do it
<cprofitt> the question, for me, is if IdleOne can do the job or if allowing him to come back would negatively impact the team in the future
<cprofitt> +1 ikonia
<AlanBell> I think my view is that withdrawing a resignation is a rule we don't have, and probably don't want to have
<cprofitt> I think that is the larger issue -- not many candidates
<cprofitt> AlanBell: I agree...
<cprofitt> accept the resignation
<AlanBell> regardless of the circumstances of this one
<phunyguy> this is why I don't agree that this should be brushed off as "it happened, move on"
<ikonia> cprofitt: that is how I see it, IdleOne pretty much stuck his name in the hat due to lack of people coming forward
<knome> nobody answered my first question:
<knome> 20:16  knome: does the IRCC have the teams support and is it trusted to steer the team?
<cprofitt> that does not exclude a person from serving again in the future though does it?
<knome> which is definitely related to the IRCC going forward...
<hggdh> cprofitt: no, it does not exclude
<AlanBell> cprofitt: no, it certainly doesn't
<cprofitt> good question knome
<hggdh> but knome's question is, I think, important
<ikonia> knome: the last IRCC term was the best there has been, the new one is made up of mostly the same people, I have no reason to doubt the individuals
<AlanBell> so if we decided to fill the seat at the end of the term or before then IdleOne would be most welcome to stand
<cprofitt> so if it does not exclude a person from serving again... use your normal procedure to fill the fifth slot
<phunyguy> I can agree with that.
<knome> ikonia, i'm not doubting anything either, but i want to raise the question up
<phunyguy> put it up to another vote... the same way the IRCC is voted upon today?
<IdleOne> cprofitt: I agree wit not_rww another election now is just going to cause more problems. The IRCC can effectively do the job with 4 members
<phunyguy> oh.
<MooDoo> so basically stick with 4 until the next election?
<cprofitt> then we can go with 4... just follow the established procedure for restaffing
<phunyguy> I just don't think it should be vacant if it dosn't have to be.
<AlanBell> yeah, so are we agreed, carry on with 4, fill the 5th seat at some point when it seems like a good idea, but no urgency to that
<hggdh> +1
<IdleOne> not to mention I doubt there will be any more volunteers this time around especially with all that has been going on
<cprofitt> I would agree with focusing on getting the team healthy
<phunyguy> I would volunteer, but not a member, etc.
<MooDoo> phunyguy: snap!
<ikonia> IdleOne: that is a real concern, especially based on the last time
<not_rww> phunyguy: I think it has to be. Another election would be distracting and add another person to an already-confusing dynamic.
<MooDoo> I would stick with 4 until the next election go to CC if needed and let IdleOne stand if he wants to?
 * MooDoo shuts up
<AlanBell> part of the issue was the timing of the open letter, which was just before the call for candidates
<AlanBell> (I actually delayed the call for candidates by a few days as a result)
<phunyguy> OK I can agree with it staying 4 members then.  We can revisit later.
<AlanBell> but anyhow, I think we have a route forward which is what I wanted from this agenda item
<Tm_T> hi
 * phunyguy looks at his watch and taps foot at Tm_T
<not_rww> I'm interested in discussing knome's question next, personally.
<knome> if nobody "wants" to be on the IRCC, and only do it because "nobody else does", can *i* trust that the IRCC actually does their job well, and in the best intents for the team?
<IdleOne> yes you can
<knome> because?
<phunyguy> knome: that's a loaded question.
<AlanBell> #agreed stick with 4 people on the IRCC until further notice
<phunyguy> knome: because that person may have the ability, but not the confidence.
<ikonia> before we go any futher would it be possible to have a meeting without any more "jokey" comments
<ikonia> and actually disuss things without these off track comments
<knome> phunyguy, of course it's a loaded question, everything is.
<IdleOne> The four members on the IRCC are most trustworthy and in all my time on this team they have always acted in the best interest of the community
<knome> if somebody doesn't have the confidence, can i trust they are able to deliver their best?
<AlanBell> knome: there were more candidates than places
<phunyguy> knome: in most cases, yes, because they are judging themselves and put more time into their decision.
<ikonia> knome: I suggest anyone who isn't confident mails the team
<hggdh> knome: you mean the team's confidence, right?
<ikonia> rather than call it out in public
<ikonia> then their individual issues can be addressed
<AlanBell> ikonia: calling it out in public is fine, as I said, all options are on the table
<ikonia> (team = council )
<not_rww> My main concern with IRCC (not the current iteration, this has been a general thing) is that issues tend to take forever to get resolved. I don't know if that's just me being impatient and/or expecting too much for people in charge of real-time chat, or a genuine problem.
<knome> sure.
<ikonia> AlanBell: it's not really going to go anywhere is it
<ikonia> I have confidence / I don't - discuss
<not_rww> So I have the habit of not having confidence that issues are going to get sorted out promptly.
<ikonia> the issue is with $user / IRC Council
<knome> what not_rww said is also my concern as well
<AlanBell> not_rww: got a specific example?
<not_rww> But that's an institutional issue. In terms of the specific people we have right now, I have confidence that they will do the position to the best of their abilities, while hampered by institutional issues.
<AlanBell> it probably is fair that we try to slow things down sometimes
<knome> floodbots?
<AlanBell> and sometimes we are slow due to availablility and reluctance to deal with things
<not_rww> AlanBell: LjL comes to mind. I think he's stated, and I strongly agree, that that took way too long.
<cprofitt> not_rww: I think in many cases when you have a group of people that are tasked with making a decision that delay is part of the process.
<not_rww> AlanBell: FloodBots should have had a decision ages ago.
<cprofitt> I would assume 'easy topics' do not get elevated to the IRCC
<knome> AlanBell, reluctance... well said.
<cprofitt> it is the difficult ones that do
<ikonia> not_rww: who actually are you ? is not_rww your normal nick name ?
<ikonia> are you rww ?
<not_rww> ikonia: yes
<ikonia> ok, cool
<knome> AlanBell, so if the IRCC is "reluctant" to act on things, should i trust them doing their best for the team?
<knome> how can we deal with that reluctancy?
<not_rww> I could think of others that are also, as cprofitt said, difficult decisions. But the standard IRCC response in the past has tended to be inaction, and that needs to stop.
<cprofitt> knome - reluctant does not mean unwilling...
<AlanBell> there are quite a few things that we did reluctantly recently, we did them though
<cprofitt> reluctant means a realization that they need to take things slowly...
<knome> cprofitt, i acknowledge
<cprofitt> to take caution and care with them
<hggdh> I think there is merit to both sides
<ikonia> the time lag to have a discussion between the members can cause delay, thats frustrating, but I don't see how that can be improved.
<ikonia> thats not peoples fault they are in different time zone, or have to work, or look after a child
<knome> disclaimer: i'm not trying to cause drama and confrontation here...
<cprofitt> I agree that, at times, delay causes issues... just like quick action can
<hggdh> I cannot speak about previous IRCCs, but I can state that the current one had some quite difficult decisions to make -- and they did get made
<cprofitt> I do have faith that everyone on the IRCC is trying to do their best... quick action or delayed action
<knome> hggdh, i appreciate that
<AlanBell> shall we move on?
<cprofitt> with complex issues there is often a need to gather facts as well... which takes time
<knome> would it be fair to ask the IRCC to publicly response to any issue raised within some specified time, like a week?
<knome> and follow up weekly or beweekly about the status
<not_rww> Even if the public response is "we are looking into this"
<knome> *bi-weekly
<ikonia> knome: that sadly doesn't work
<AlanBell> hmm, if it is a defined item somewhere
<knome> ikonia, because?
<AlanBell> !appeals
<ubottu> If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.
<AlanBell> ^ email it there and create a ticket \o/
<ikonia> knome: they tried this with an issue for me - but the delay was down to people not talking to each other, so when I got an update they had not spoken to each other and the update was wrong
<knome> ikonia, ok.. so what you are saying is that "it hasn't worked in the past"
<cprofitt> knome: it would be fair to expect a response... as in 'we are looking at this' ... but not a decision
<knome> cprofitt, i'm not asking for a decision
<ikonia> knome: totally, yes, thats the correct wording
<ikonia> knome: if there is a delay doing $something it normally seems to be because people are away, in which case the update is either "nothing done yet" or "wrong" becauyse the guy giving the update is out of the loop
<ikonia> they have tried that
<knome> AlanBell, so should all issues raised to the IRCC go through the appeals email then?
<hggdh> cprofitt: that is not enough, I think. "We are working on it" is nice as a boilerplate, but updates are also necessary, with more details
<knome> if the IRCC give weekly notices and all of them are "nothing is done", maybe the team can question if the IRCC is fit in that situation
<AlanBell> knome: nope, just talk to us
<AlanBell> but if you want SLAs on it, then use the tracker
<not_rww> is IRCC/IrcTeam subject to Team Reporting? i forget
<knome> AlanBell, then how do i get weekly notices how things are going, since it's not a specified item?
<knome> SLA?
<cprofitt> hggdh: I agree it is nice to have more,... but I am not sure a one week period of time is enough to expect more
<AlanBell> service level agreement
<knome> not_rww, all teams should be
<knome> well, i just think the IRCC should give periodic reports on *all* issues they are working on.
<ikonia> keep in mind these people are giving up their time
<AlanBell> not_rww: we did that for a while, can do it again, I have no idea who reads them, nothing happened when we stopped doing them
<knome> if that's not happening, the rest of the team can't know if there is any progress
<Tm_T> knome: periodic report like, uh, these meetings?
<not_rww> then I'd suggest perhaps weekly/every two week interim team reports that get rolled into the monthly one
<MooDoo> I think a simple. hello $person, thanks for your $communication, we'll get back to you shortly, please bear with us is enought right?
<ikonia> knome: could it be put o the individual to chase up with the council /
<ikonia> eg: I raise the issue, I chase it up with them
<not_rww> and actually doing the monthly one ;)
<knome> not_rww, AlanBell: the team reporting sucks pretty much for all teams atm, but all teams are "subject" to it
<not_rww> and private issues that aren't suitable for there can be status-checked over the ticket thing
<knome> Tm_T, for example, but a report every month tends to just delay and delay
<AlanBell> so what is an "issue" that we are working on?
<Tm_T> knome: I know, I remember when we had monthly reports
<Tm_T> adding more bureaucracy doesn't sound a good way to go though
<ikonia> AlanBell: if you skip forward to the councils function, this query may go away
<knome> AlanBell, anything that an operator has raised and that needs IRCC intervention or decision that isn't acted on.
<knome> i'm not proposing to add bureaucracy...
<knome> i'm proposing to add communication to both direction
<Tm_T> knome: communication can be done in many ways
<knome> if an operator raises an issue for the IRCC, it would be nice to get reports back
<Tm_T> yes I totally agree with that
<knome> if it's an informal mail to the mailing list, cool
<knome> that would be completely okay
<knome> again, EVEN IF the report was "we're still working on this"
<hggdh> indeed. And I think this is doable, and should be done
<jussi> depends on the issue no, arent the issues raised with the ircc meant to be private/confidential ?
<knome> but if that reporting happens once a month in a team meeting, you only need to postpone it twice and by that time, quarter of a year has passed
<not_rww> jussi: and those would go over the ticketing system instead
<knome> jussi, obviously, if it's a private issue, report to concerned parties only
<AlanBell> most issues we just deal with them
<Tm_T> not_rww: all issues could go to ticketing if it requires followup
<hggdh> (an email to the ML, I mean. And, of course, private/confidential issues would have to be sanitised.)
<AlanBell> like someone asks for a cloak, someone needs to get access to a channel etc
<knome> AlanBell, that's good, in that case you obviously do not need to report
<knome> AlanBell, because the issue has been taken care of
<knome> i'm talking about open issues
<AlanBell> and some are not operator specific, like we need to clean up expired cloaks
<AlanBell> and those go on the meeting agenda
<Tm_T> I really recommend people to use the ticketing system more actively if there is something they really see important and isn't for irc team meeting or something that can be done in #ubuntu-irc
<AlanBell> anyhow, I think we need to move along . . so
<knome> i'm all in for that...
<AlanBell> #topic Paste and attack prevention in the main channels
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Paste and attack prevention in the main channels
<knome> but i would think the tickets should be public for the team to view at all times
<knome> not only if you know the ticket number
<AlanBell> so we had the floodbots for many years, and now they are gone
<knome> AlanBell, so no promise?
<knome> AlanBell, no response?
<tsimpson> knome: you can use LP for that
<knome> AlanBell, no action item?
<knome> tsimpson, that works for me, if the IRCC doesn't think that's too much bureucracy
<AlanBell> knome: I will follow up with something
<knome> thanks.
<Tm_T> knome: I promise to focus on communicating better, happy? (:
<knome> #action AlanBell to follow up with IRCC reporting back to community
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to follow up with IRCC reporting back to community
<tsimpson> knome: it already exists https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council
<IdleOne> regarding expired cloaks. I think after two weeks that a member has expired and has not requested to be added back on the team, the cloaks should be automatically removed. Membership is for life anyway (rare cases do happen), the ex-member can always request a cloak again later.
<knome> #action Tm_T to focus on communication
<meetingology> ACTION: Tm_T to focus on communication
<AlanBell> we have launchpad bugs, the ticket tracker, the mailing list, the meeting logs and you can *talk to us*
<AlanBell> IdleOne: yeah, we just have to do it, time consuming stuff
<knome> tsimpson, yes, i'm okay with that, as long as it's okay for the IRCC, and there is actually responses.
<knome> but cheers, i'm happy with this.
<AlanBell> so, attack prevention
<tsimpson> well reporting on the LP bugs is part of the regular meeting agenda
<AlanBell> we had the floodbots, jolly convenient they were too, but they are gone. We said we would put together some kind of tool for preventing accidental pastes, which we did
<AlanBell> we put a supybot instance together, running a modified AttackProtector plugin
<AlanBell> code is https://github.com/AlanBell/Supybot-plugins
<IdleOne> source is ?
<IdleOne> there it is
<Tm_T> AlanBell: are they verbose of their doings in some monitoring channel?
<AlanBell> the modification is to allow auto reversal of mode changes
<AlanBell> Tm_T: nope
<Tm_T> allright
<not_rww> I think it using NOTICE is already on your todo list, right?
<not_rww> b/c I don't care, but some people presumably do (and AntiSpamMeta does, amusingly)
<AlanBell> this bot was sat in the #unopaste channel for some time for a bit of testing
<AlanBell> not_rww: it is using notice
<IdleOne> AlanBell: it shouldn't be
<not_rww> AlanBell: right, i think people were saying it /shouldn't/ be noticing channels?
<IdleOne> was the point :)
 * AlanBell thinks it was rww that asked for it to be a notice
<not_rww> I didn't ask for it to be a notice...
<AlanBell> but sure, it can not be a notice
<AlanBell> someone did, I wouldn't just make that up ;)
<not_rww> I don't care what it is, but some/most people have crap IRC clients that care a lot about channel notices
<IdleOne> AlanBell: only because some clients send notices to server tab. New users might not know to look there.
<tsimpson> I really don't think it should notice the channel
<AlanBell> ok, I will change that later
<tsimpson> it should either notice the user, or /msg the user, or just use a normal channel message
<Tm_T> I agree no notice
<Tm_T> in channel that is
<not_rww> what tsimpson said. in decreasing preference order for me
<AlanBell> oh, maybe you said to notice the user
<IdleOne> channel message is best because that is where the user is looking when the are pasting mulitple lines
<not_rww> AlanBell: that sounds more like something I'd say
<AlanBell> what does that even do?
<Tm_T> not_rww: you mean rww would say?
<phunyguy> noticing the user is like a PM, but they see it everywhere... right?
<AlanBell> go on, notice me :)
<IdleOne> phunyguy: not in all clients
<phunyguy> oh.
<not_rww> depends on the client
<not_rww> what it does is send an RFC-compliant message to the user
<phunyguy> mine has settings to put it where you want.
<not_rww> some clients choose to display that in stupid ways, some don't
 * AlanBell sees nothing, anyone noticed me?
<hggdh> /invite #ubuntu-br-ops
<tsimpson> AlanBell: you have a notice
<knome> AlanBell, i just did.
<AlanBell> hmm
<IdleOne> phunyguy: You are an experienced IRC user though. The best solution is the one that covers all the bases. A channel message would be it
<AlanBell> less than totally effective
<phunyguy> yep.  I agree there
<AlanBell> oh, there they are in a status window, not hilighting me
<IdleOne> see
<AlanBell> I would never notice those notices
<tsimpson> the only problem with a normal channel message is that it can (theoretically) be exploited to ironically flood the channel, adding to the noise
<IdleOne> first time irc user in #ubuntu gets a notice, doesn't see it and is now upset about getting Can't send to channel messages from the server
 * Tm_T notices AlanBell not noticing notice
<tsimpson> but it's not something I see as likely
<not_rww> so use PM?
<IdleOne> not_rww: same problem
<knome> time limit the notice to one per 30 secs.
<IdleOne> new users might not see the new tab
<AlanBell> PM is less of a problem
<knome> or one per 1 minute.
<phunyguy> I am horrible at noticing PMs and I am an experienced user.
<MooDoo> AlanBell: but more intrusive?
<not_rww> presumably you'd have more chance to notice when you see you can't talk :P
<phunyguy> ask IdleOne, chu, and everyone else that PMs me
<AlanBell> anyhow we don't like the notice to the channel so I can change that
<knome> how commonly are there several floodpastes in 1 minute?
<knome> (from different users?)
<AlanBell> in principal though we can get it to do different things, message the monitor channel and other stuff
<IdleOne> A channel message is most effective because that is where the users attention is at the time they would get a message about pasting to the channel
<knome> or even in 5 minutes
<AlanBell> knome: really rare
<knome> see.
<phunyguy> not_rww: I thought when you are +q, it still sends to the channel on your end? Or is that only if +z is set?
<knome> just time limit the notice message to N minutes
<not_rww> phunyguy: only if +z is set, you get a server error if it's not
<phunyguy> so some may not realize...
<phunyguy> oh ok.
<phunyguy> well +z can be set at any point in time.
<phunyguy> (or unset)
<not_rww> anyways, apart from that bikeshedding, I think the bot is working fine as a starting point, and we can do more complicated stuff iff need be
<AlanBell> I made the bot some time ago (17 days ago) but the general opinion was to not send it in to the channel and see how we got on without it
<AlanBell> couple of days ago there was a bit of a complaint about the lack of floodbots so I sent it in and it has prevented a couple of problems
<not_rww> i'll be back in 5 minutes
<knome> AlanBell, is the code available and can you link to it
<AlanBell> knome: of course, and I did :)
<AlanBell> https://github.com/AlanBell/Supybot-plugins
<AlanBell> pull requests welcome
<knome> just missed that. thanks.
<AlanBell> so I think unopaste is staying, I am not hearing howls of anquish
<AlanBell> it isn't another eir ;)
<knome> AlanBell, AttackProtector is the right subdir, right?
<AlanBell> knome: yeah
<knome> cheers.
<AlanBell> oh, I need to push up the /notice bit
<AlanBell> that just isn't something to push upstream
<AlanBell> so, a few items to improve on that, but there we are for now
<knome> AlanBell, i've asked lderan to look at the code and come up with a time-limiter
<tsimpson> it could go upstream, if it was a configuration option
<Tm_T> good starting point and possibility to improve is all we need now
<knome> can ask him to look at that as well, if you want
<AlanBell> tsimpson: yeah, I just hard coded the text for now, if done properly then it might be worth contributing
<knome> AlanBell, asked for the conf option as well.
<knome> AlanBell, lderan will most probably be in touch with you.
<AlanBell> knome: sure, lderan can have all access required, no problem
<knome> AlanBell, yeah, i'm just *reporting back* on progress ;)
<knome> and noticing that somebody is actually looking at it.
 * rww reappears
<lderan> hello there
<AlanBell> we are not committed to this path, if there is a different anti-paste solution that anyone preferes, then we can totally switch
<AlanBell> hi lderan
<AlanBell> anyhow, lets trot along to the factoid review \o/
<AlanBell> #topic Factoid Review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Factoid Review
<rww> thank you for taking lead on pastebot by the way AlanBell. was good work :)
<AlanBell> so we have a bunch of factoids and one of the issues raised in the open letter and then again in assorted bits of drama, was the over-use or inappropriate use of factoids by the team and users
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/factoids
<AlanBell> so we thought we would have a look at what factoids might be in scope for that, and put the list on the pad that knome linked to :)
<AlanBell> so, lets go through them now, everyone should have access to the pad where comments have been left
<DJones> Evening
<MooDoo> hi DJones
<AlanBell> so, from the top :)
<AlanBell> !language
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<knome> that has -5 +2 (for new merging with !english)
<AlanBell> we had a number of people not liking this factoid and an alternative proposal
<AlanBell> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<AlanBell> !english
<ubottu> The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<knome> AlanBell, since the factoids are in the pad, do we need to copy/paste?
<AlanBell> so the proposal was to make both of them different
<Tm_T> AlanBell: I would prefer to see them merged
<AlanBell> knome: I am going to call them one by one, doesn't matter if we have extra text here, just makes the minutes look clearer
<AlanBell> ok, so we like the new text for both english and language?
<Tm_T> I'm ok with it
<AlanBell> !no language is <reply> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<AlanBell> !english is alias language
<ubottu> But english already means something else!
<AlanBell> !forget english
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<AlanBell> !english is alias language
<ubottu> english has been forgotten, use '!unforget english' to edit it again
<AlanBell> bah
<DJones> The only issue I can see with that will be disagreements on what constitutes "the main ubuntu channels"
<AlanBell> someone know how to do it?
<tsimpson> unforget it, then use <alias>
<knome> !unforget english
<ubottu> I suddenly remember english again, knome
<knome> !no, english is <alias> language
<ubottu> I'll remember that knome
<AlanBell> ah, angle brackets
<AlanBell> !english
<ubottu> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<AlanBell> hah
 * tsimpson mumbles something about the documentation
<AlanBell> yeah, I read it once
<knome> tsimpson, documentation, BOOORIING and TL;DR ;)
<AlanBell> in one eye, out the other
<AlanBell> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
 * phunyguy is running out of time :(
<knome> could actually made a alias of language now.
<AlanBell> so, for this one several people didn't like it at all
<phunyguy> yeah, these types of factoids should be more humanly conveyed.  As in, not a bot trigger
<AlanBell> !no ohmy is <alias> language
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<AlanBell> phunyguy: so we can forget things altogether, that is fine
<AlanBell> but there was a proposal to reword it that had some support
<phunyguy> ahh I haven't checked recently.
<AlanBell> !enter
<ubottu> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line. Don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<AlanBell> several forgets on this one
<AlanBell> !forget enter
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<AlanBell> !repeat
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<AlanBell> lots of people liked this one
<AlanBell> !anyone
<ubottu> A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<rww> kill with fire
<AlanBell> !forget anyone
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<phunyguy> ^ yes
<AlanBell> !behavior
<ubottu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<rww> people were abusing the hell out of that factoid :<
<rww> i like !behavior
<AlanBell> seems fine to me
<AlanBell> !etiquette
<ubottu> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See (in a private message with the bot, /msg ubottu <keyword>): !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !Caps, !NickSpam, !PM, !English - And most importantly, use common sense...
<AlanBell> for people who can spell etiquette
<jussi> I dont like behaviour. it feels very bossy
<rww> !behaviour =~ s/,/;/
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<knome> jussi, and a bit too direct, "Answers are not always available."
<rww> jussi: it's usually a response in kind to people getting complainy about not getting answered
<jussi> knome: yes "short"
<tsimpson> too !many !see !also !keywords
<rww> could be reworded tho, but the intent needs to stay
<knome> why not merge with guidelines, +3 for that.
<knome> !guidelines
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<jussi> yep
<AlanBell> knome: merge which one with guidelines?
<jussi> ettiquette
<knome> actually both
<jussi> which I cant spell
<knome> both have +3 for merging
<AlanBell> !no etiquette is <alias> guidelines
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<AlanBell> !no behavior is <alias> guidelines
<ubottu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<knome> reword behavior or merge it
<rww> AlanBell: behaviour, not behavior
<AlanBell> !no behaviour is <alias> guidelines
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<AlanBell> spelling, I fail
<AlanBell> !best
<ubottu> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel.
<knome> !behavior
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<knome> forget !best
<jussi> I like best.
<rww> i dislike best
<rww> also, I just remembered that !patience covers what I wanted !behavior to cover, so yay
<tsimpson> let's have a poll!
<jussi> haha
<knome> no,
<AlanBell> what is the best factoid?
<knome> there was a poll already
<rww> i vote for !best is <alias> worst-#ubuntu-offtopic
<knome> and if you must take polls, take them in #ubuntu-polls :P
<jussi> knome: serious face off for a min :P
<AlanBell> !worst-#ubuntu-offtopic
<ubottu> This factoid is supposed to be pretty terrible. Please contact rodserling if you find a factoid worse than this, in order to improve, I mean pejorate, this useless conglomerate of words, thank you, well not really. Worst is also the dutch word for sausage.
<AlanBell> yeah, that is pretty bad
<jussi> just needs an update that one
<rww> not as bad as !ettiquette
<IdleOne> no, it's the worst
<jussi> I think we just change roserling and IdleOne and its all good
<knome> i think we must stop joking
<knome> we're discussing !best
<AlanBell> I don't think we need a best factoid, if someone asks what the best virtualisation system is or whatever then people can ask them what their requirements are
<jussi> yeah, back to it
<knome> (i don't want to sit in IRC the whole evening talking about IRC)
<knome> !forget best
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<AlanBell> yay
<AlanBell> !who
<ubottu> As you can see, this is a large channel. If you're speaking to someone in particular, please put their nickname in what you say (use !tab), or else messages get lost and it becomes confusing :)
<knome> has +4
<AlanBell> that looks kinda handy
<knome> keep and move along
<knome> !away
<ubottu> Please do not use noisy away messages and nicks in Ubuntu channels. It is annoying and unnecessary. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently. See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<AlanBell> !away
<knome> -4 +1
<knome> probably better to notice personally about that.
<rww> "a simple PM to the user can help this", yes, !away > user
<AlanBell> good point, works well with >
<rww> it's not like it's something that really needs discussion, and people who get hit with it generally have heard about how awaynicks suck from elsewhere
<AlanBell> ok, keeping for now
<AlanBell> !pm
<ubottu> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<knome> can we keep !away, but edit !away-#ubuntu to give no response?
<phunyguy> yeah I just still hold firm that factoids like this should be more human and not a bot trigger, even if it is an !away > user
<AlanBell> knome: sure, go ahead
<phunyguy> just my opinion
<rww> "no response" don't think so
<knome> AlanBell, i mean, is that technically possible... and what do i set !away-#channel to?
<knome> !pm has -1 +4
<ubottu> knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knome> ubottu, quiet!
<AlanBell> didn't I do that for !ops-#ubuntu-ops
<AlanBell> oh, not quite, no
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i can file a LP bug ;P
<AlanBell> knome: ok, sounds like a good idea, if we can do it, lets move on :)
<knome> yep.
<AlanBell> so for pm, people don't like the last sentence
<phunyguy> I have to go to another meeting.  Farewell all for now.
<AlanBell> I don't think it needs to be there in that context
<AlanBell> !no pm is <reply> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice.
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<AlanBell> !details
<ubottu> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<AlanBell> !work
<ubottu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<rww> . !work is funny and pisses users off, !details is fine but a bit overused
<AlanBell> I like details, not sure why you would want to merge it with work
<AlanBell> so lets move on from details for now
<AlanBell> !shout
<ubottu> PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too.
<knome> !forget shout
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> thanks!
<rww> \o/
<AlanBell> OK, WHAT IS NEXT?
<rww> oh
<rww> so
<rww> you guys have a bunch of dangling aliases now
<rww> !caps
<ubottu> Error: unresolvable <alias> to shout
<knome> AlanBell, I CAN'T HEAR YOU
<rww> i call not it on fixing those
<knome> rww, aww for not being able to do that...
<knome> rww, i mean, understanding that
<AlanBell> rww: ok, fine, we can go through those later
<rww> can just remove as we find, i guess
<rww> !forget caps
<ubottu> I'll forget that, rww
<knome> !forget scrolling
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<AlanBell> well I can go through what we forget in this meeting and fix them
<knome> !forget return
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> !forget anybody
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<rww> next up, !o4o
<AlanBell> !o4o
<ubottu> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<knome> !forget somebody
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<rww> strong keep on !o4o
<knome> !forget !someone
<ubottu> I know nothing about !someone yet, knome
<knome> !forget someone
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> !forget expert
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<AlanBell> o4o seems worth keeping to me
<AlanBell> !stop
<ubottu> NOTICE - Please stop this discussion NOW. See !offtopic for things that are inappropriate to discuss in this channel. Continuing will result in action being taken.
<rww> and it's one of those factoids that has had iterations to remove bugs and is brushing up against the size limit, and I don't think it needs editing again
<knome> !forget good
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> !forget better
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<rww> i'm on the fence about !stop
<knome> !forget preference
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> !forget ppolls
<ubottu> I know nothing about ppolls yet, knome
<rww> knome: (/msg ubottu plz)
<AlanBell> stop wasn't on the list, do we like it
<knome> rww, i thought for logs/history
<knome> but okay.
<knome> then i can't follow the discussion!
<rww> then do it later :P
<AlanBell> knome: lets bash the aliases at the end of the meeting
<knome> doing it now in PM
<AlanBell> so, !stop, do we like that?
<rww> iirc !stop's intended for operator use, not user use
<tsimpson> in which case, it's dumb
<rww> mainly been used in -ot that i've seen
<tsimpson> in which case, it's more dumb
<rww> agreed
<AlanBell> doesn't make sense there
<rww> discussions don't usually get to a point in #ubuntu where it'd be necessary to be so harsh
<AlanBell> and you could just mute people, or set +m if it was that bad
<tsimpson> and then 'forget' to unset it
<AlanBell> !forget stop
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<rww> in -ot, I'm more of a fan of using !o4o's "stop when asked" clause and asking for stop, in a different tone from !stop
<AlanBell> !netsplit
<ubottu> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<jussi> thats a good one
<AlanBell> !lol
<ubottu> Please don't use "LOL" and "OMG" and so forth on a regular basis. This is IRC, not IM, and using those lines on their own is not required, and it is rather annoying to the rest of the people in the channel; thanks.
<AlanBell> !forget lol
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<knome> !inappropriate
<ubottu> The current discussion topic is inappropriate for this channel. Please stop.
<AlanBell> !nickspam lol
<rww> !netsplit =~ s/^/<reply> A netsplit is /
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<knome> ^
<AlanBell> !nickspam
<ubottu> You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Please set your preferred nick in your client's settings instead. See also Â« /msg ubottu Guidelines Â»
<rww> -1 on !inappropriate existing
<knome> !forget inappropriate
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<jussi> good
<rww> i have the same opinion of !nickspam as of !away
<AlanBell> nickspam seems popular in the pad
<knome> yes,
<knome> same as away
<AlanBell> keep, but stop it working in-channel if we can
<knome> make it PM-only.
<AlanBell> !u
<ubottu> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'ryt',  'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<jussi> I dont like that one. feels short and grumpy.
<knome> !forget lolops
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<knome> !forget lolcats
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<tsimpson> you could just get rid of the first two sentences of !u
<rww> . !no, u is <reply> Shortened English is difficult for some non-native English speakers to read. Please use full words instead. Thanks!
<knome> or merge with !language.
<AlanBell> much better
<tsimpson> like that, yep
<knome> !language
<ubottu> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<jussi> rww: ++
<Pici> hi
<rww> !no, u is <reply> Shortened English is difficult for some non-native English speakers to read. Please use full words instead. Thanks!
<AlanBell> hi Pici
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<jussi> heya Pici
<knome> isn't mangled english essentially "other language"
<rww> knome: no, it r txt liek dis
<AlanBell> !piracy
<ubottu> piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<knome> rww, yes... looks like other language to me :)
<AlanBell> popular one
<AlanBell> !noob
<ubottu> Acronyms or statements like noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
<rww> !-piracty
<rww> !-piracy
<ubottu> piracy aliases: warez, illegal, cracking - added by elkbuntu on 2007-03-11 14:52:32 - last edited by Pici on 2011-07-19 19:43:02
<rww> !-cracking
<ubottu> cracking is <alias> piracy - added by LjL on 2007-11-07 22:23:06
<knome> !forget noob
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<rww> . !piracy doesn't cover cracking. Should it?
<rww> also, !noob was +2/-2, not really a forget-without-discussion
<AlanBell> rww: possibly, however penetration testing, wireshark and wifi stuff that is in the repos is entirely supportable
<rww> then !forget cracking
<AlanBell> yeah
<knome> rww, can reintroduce if people feel strongly.
<jussi> noob should go from my point of view, tipping it to +2/-3
<Pici> We historically do not support the actual use of things like aircrack-ng even if they claim they are using it for legal purposes
<rww> on second thought, all the *f* acronyms in !noob are covered by !language
<knome> i've already !forgot all the aliases for !noob
<knome> (but i can reintroduce)
<knome> but i think it's just misuse of the factoid system
<AlanBell> I think the policy remains, stfu and so on are not acceptable, we just don't need a bot factoid to say so
<knome> exactly
<jussi> exactly
<knome> basically,
<rww> alrighty, i'll go with that
<knome> all factoids that are "op use only" should go.
<knome> well
<knome> don't take that black and white :)
<rww> . !noob wasn't op-use-only, but I agree
<rww> !google
<ubottu> While Google is useful for helpers, many newer users don't have the google-fu yet. Please don't tell people to "google it" when they ask a question.
<Pici> There are op-only factoids?
<knome> but there are usually better ways to handle
<knome> Pici, !stop was mentioned as one
<knome> Pici, and not *technically* ops-only
<knome> which is why they also should be dropped...
<jussi> I think a lot of the factoids that tell/order users what they must or must not do are not that useful/somewhat rude
<knome> !piracy ?
<ubottu> knome: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<AlanBell> so !google had some support
<AlanBell> !work
<ubottu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<knome> what happened to !piracy
<knome> did we decide something?
<AlanBell> !piracy
<ubottu> piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
<knome> keep?
<Pici> yes
<knome> (i guess)
<knome> ok
<AlanBell> keeping it
<AlanBell> but !work is less popular
<knome> i'm actually thinking -1 !google
<AlanBell> !details
<ubottu> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<rww> Pici: re: aircrack and such, I'd appreciate some pondering from IRCC about that and perhaps clarification on if it is or isn't supportable, since different ops seem to disagree in the past about it
<AlanBell> so !work and !details are similar
<knome> it sounds like something an op or and experienced user would throw at a not-so-experienced helper
<rww> i dislike work
 * phunyguy is back
<AlanBell> rww: that has previously been discussed, I will look it up, the CC was involved I think
<jussi> theres another one I dont remember that says something similar but better
<AlanBell> !no work is <alias> details
<ubottu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<knome> !details | jussi
<ubottu> jussi: Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<jussi> no
<rww> !-work
<ubottu> work is <alias> doesn't work - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:49:49 - last edited by AlanBell on 2014-03-19 19:46:11
<rww> !-doesn't work
<ubottu> doesn't work aliases: work, doesntwork, doesnt work, didnotwork, didn't work, dontwork, works - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 16:49:40 - last edited by Seveas on 2007-03-02 18:20:46
<jussi> it starts with e and is a long word
<Pici> I like work
<AlanBell> !no doesn't work is <alias> details
<ubottu> I'll remember that AlanBell
<rww> !elaborate
<ubottu> Please elaborate, your question or issue may not seem clear or detailed enough for people to help you. Please give more detailed information, errors, steps, and possibly configuration files (use the !pastebin to avoid flooding the channel)
<AlanBell> !work
<ubottu> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<jussi> rww: yup
<knome> yes!
<rww> i prefer !elaborate to !work
<jussi> yes, as do I
<knome> Â¡no, details is <alias> elaborate
<knome> ^
<rww> !-details
<ubottu> details aliases: doesn't work, example - added by LjL on 2008-11-06 23:26:49
<rww> knome: +1
<jussi> knome: also +1
<knome> and work too.
<knome> !no, details is <alias> elaborate
<ubottu> I'll remember that knome
<knome> !no, work is <alias> elaborate
<ubottu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<AlanBell> !work
<rww> !work
<ubottu> Please elaborate, your question or issue may not seem clear or detailed enough for people to help you. Please give more detailed information, errors, steps, and possibly configuration files (use the !pastebin to avoid flooding the channel)
<knome> !no, work is <alias> elaborate
<ubottu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
<AlanBell> already done, it is a chain of aliases
<knome> what?
<knome> stupid.
<rww> knome: it's fine :P
<knome> :)
<AlanBell> knome: relax
<rww> !elaborate =~ s/,/;/
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<knome> NEVAR!
<AlanBell> !please
<ubottu> Avoid following your questions with a trail of "Please, help me", "Can nobody help me?", "I really need this!", and so on. This just contributes to making the channel unreadable. If you are not answered, ask again later; but see also !repeat and !attitude
<AlanBell> !forget please
<ubottu> I'll forget that, AlanBell
<rww> !repeat
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<rww> !attitude
<ubottu> The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
<jussi> that one gets abused... (repeat)
<knome> #action knome to edit !repeat-#xubuntu to be more exact on xubuntu-specific links
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to edit !repeat-#xubuntu to be more exact on xubuntu-specific links
<AlanBell> it does, someone pastes a question, repeats hours later and someone tells them off for repeating :)
<Pici> I'm a little confused as to where the decision to remove some of these is coming from... like !please
<AlanBell> Pici: the pad
<knome> Â¡no, repeat is <alias> elaborate
<rww> knome: -1
<rww> knome: they're different issues
<AlanBell> if there is overwhelming -1s on the pad or +1s then I wassn't discussing in great depth
<Pici> -1
<knome> mmh, yeah, i acknowledge that..
<knome> just an idea
<rww> AlanBell: !please was +4...
<rww> oh no it wasn't
 * rww searches better
<AlanBell> rww: no, it wasn't
<Pici> sorry, I missed that on the pad
<knome> would !forget repeat
<rww> yeah, ignore me, I failed at ctrl-f
<Pici> no
<Pici> repeat is used a lot.
<Pici> repeatedly
<AlanBell> is that good or bad?
<knome> i guess that proves my point. :)
<rww> I think it's fine if it's not abused.
<Pici> Well, I was making a joke. It is used when it is necessary.
<phunyguy> jokes are not allowed here.
<knome> hmm,
<Pici> Remember that some people prefer to see things that ubottu says as 'official' despite other users telling them the same thing.
<knome> drop anything off !repeat except the last sentence?
<knome> While you wait...
<rww> hrm?
<knome> dunno
<knome> i'm just throwing ideas.
<AlanBell> if we can't decide now, lets move on
<AlanBell> !punctuation
<ubottu> Punctuation is good, but its overuse hurts readability. Please refrain from adding many ?'s or !'s to the end of your sentences. See also !enter
<Pici> k
<knome> forget...
<Pici> we got rid of enter :/
<knome> proves we should drop punctuation as well :P
<Pici> but then I can't do things like
<Pici> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!punctuation
<ubottu> Punctuation is good, but its overuse hurts readability. Please refrain from adding many ?'s or !'s to the end of your sentences. See also !enter
<rww> +1 Pici
<knome> punctuation is requested 141 times
<rww> i changed my mind, kill it
<knome> approximately 100 of those is Pici playing with the bot
<Pici> punctuation can probably go, I just liked !enter
<Pici> knome: probably :P
<knome> !forget punctuation
<ubottu> I'll forget that, knome
<jussi> yup
<AlanBell> !coc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is the document that spells out etiquette in the Ubuntu community | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<AlanBell> keep that one
<Pici> keep
<phunyguy> this is a good one
<AlanBell> !canibeanop
<ubottu> If you are interested in joining the Ubuntu IRC Team, take a look at both http://www.siltala.net/2010/03/24/ops-teams-applications-announcement/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements for info on the process and requirements.  You can also learn about what the job entails from people in #ubuntu-irc.
<rww> !coc =~ s/  / /
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<Pici> keep
<phunyguy> also a good one
<Pici> beanop
<rww> !canibeanop =~ s/  / /
<ubottu> I'll remember that rww
<knome> !meta
<ubottu> If you would like to help in #*ubuntu* but it just goes too fast to spot interesting questions, try joining #ubuntu-meta and watching for questions there (note that it is NOT a support channel, however, and questions should still be answered in #*ubuntu*)
<tsimpson> may be a good idea to move the blog link to the wiki somewhere
<AlanBell> yeah, I will move the content to the wiki
<knome> +1 for tsimpson's idea
<Pici> aye
<rww> #action Alanbell to move !canibeanop link content to wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: Alanbell to move !canibeanop link content to wiki
<rww> :3
<AlanBell> ok, that concludes the factoid review \o/
<knome> meta?
<phunyguy> phew
<rww> no it doesn't there is !meta :P
<tsimpson> -meta is dead
<rww> !forget meta
<ubottu> I'll forget that, rww
<knome> !forget meta
<ubottu> I know nothing about meta yet, knome
<AlanBell> knome: coming up next . .
<rww> I WIN
<knome> boo!
<AlanBell> I will send a summary of what has changed to the list later
<AlanBell> I will extract it from the minutes
<rww> #action AlanBell to send a summary of factoid changes to ubuntu-irc@
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to send a summary of factoid changes to ubuntu-irc@
<AlanBell> #topic Metabot and Bestbot - clean up, or re-implement
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Metabot and Bestbot - clean up, or re-implement
<knome> hmm, please
<knome> one more
<knome> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<phunyguy> that one is beat to hell also
<rww> alias to !elaborate
<Pici> I'd like to shorten that one up
<knome> rww, not quite the same issue... :)=
<rww> . !elaborate is my new favorite thing
<Pici> It used to be just "Don't ask to ask, just ask"
<knome> sounds alike to "someone"
<rww> brb on alt
<knome> just different wording
<knome> and !someone was dropped
<MooDoo> sorry guys brb little one playing up
<tsimpson> I don't see the relevance to !patience either
<knome> !no, patience is <alias> repeat
<ubottu> I'll remember that knome
<AlanBell> I think !ask is OK
<jussi> I say we keep ask in some form - Ive seen many channels using similar wording and its quite a well known/said thing. maybe a link to how to ask wiki is good
<knome> (it *was* the same factoid)
<phunyguy> While this factoid is probably OK, it just gets used a lot
<phunyguy> more than it should.
<AlanBell> people are hesitant to ask sometimes
<knome> does throwing a factoid help their thresold to ask?
<phunyguy> example, "anyone here use $someapplication?"
<phunyguy> about 4 people slam them with the bot factoid
<tsimpson> I'd remove everything in parentheses and the see also
<knome> i vote -1 to !ask
<phunyguy> same, -1
<Pici> I'd keep the words in the parens and remove the second and 3rd sentences
<knome> it is essentially the same as !someone
<knome> and all the reasons why we decided to drop that applies to !ask
<knome> wasn't the goal to reduce bot usage?
<knome> if we really miss the factoid, then reintroduce it.
<phunyguy> ^
<knome> </rant>
<AlanBell> the goal is to have a more human atmosphere
<not_rww> o/
<Pici> humans :(
<knome_webchat> i have lag.
<knome> i have lag.
<AlanBell> I read about humans in a book once, I am an expert now \o/
<tsimpson> !lag
<ubottu> You have lag, I don't have lag
<Pici> How long until helpers complain that ubottu isn't working because we removed a bunch of factoids?
<knome> tsimpson, was lag between my irc shell and freenode.
<phunyguy> Pici: good question... and that question can be answered pretty easily
<phunyguy> (their question I mean)
<MooDoo> back sorry about that
<Pici> phunyguy: yep.  And as always, I always tell them to suggest a factoid if they think it should exist.
<knome> so can people express their thoughts on !ask with -1 +1 -+0
<phunyguy> yes, I agree
<knome> i'm not sure what the general opinion is.
<phunyguy> in case it was missed, -1
<knome> -1 from me too
<knome> i need to go really soon.
<knome> anybody +1's !ask?
<phunyguy> yeah this has been an exceptionally long, but productive meeting so far.
<AlanBell> as always this stuff is reversable, if we get complaints we can undo it
<knome> so forget?
<AlanBell> I don't have a strong opinion on ask
<knome> ok, mind if i forget that and the aliases then?
<IdleOne> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<knome> ask, help, justask, metaquestion, problem, questions, question
<IdleOne> keep
<Pici> ask and help are useful.
<Pici> +1 on ask
<AlanBell> ok, lets keep it, now for this topic item :)
<phunyguy> ok, so keep it
<knome> ask == help
<knome> ok, i'm off
<phunyguy>  \o
<AlanBell> as well as the floodbots we no longer have the use of metabot and bestbot
<AlanBell> we have the option of trying to reimplement the functionality, or cleaning up the channels and wiki pages and factoids
<AlanBell> any thoughts?
<IdleOne> clean up
<phunyguy> +1 to clean up
<AlanBell> my view is to clean up
<AlanBell> ok, in the absence of any strong support for reimplementing . . .
<not_rww> +1 clean up
<AlanBell> #action ircc to clean up behind bestbot and metabot
<meetingology> ACTION: ircc to clean up behind bestbot and metabot
<AlanBell> #topic Review #ubuntu-ops-team and how we as a team use the various communication channels
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Review #ubuntu-ops-team and how we as a team use the various communication channels
<AlanBell> we touched on this earlier
<AlanBell> how the IRCC and team in general should use communication tools available
<AlanBell> there has been some suggestion that we should use the -ops-team channel less and use -irc more for topics that are appropriate there
<AlanBell> we could close -ops-team if people want it to not exist
<phunyguy> well I like -ops-team, but I can live without it.
<IdleOne> -ops-team is useful when trying to resolve and ban with a user and I'm not sure what to do
<phunyguy> yes, I agree there
<Pici> +1
<IdleOne> I say we keep the channel, but try and move much of the discussion as possible to -irc
<Pici> and a place for other ops to chime in without having to try to talk over the proceedigns in -ops
<IdleOne> ^
<phunyguy> right, purely for operator issues/assistance that need to be private.
<phunyguy> but discussing things related to the IRC team should be in -irc imo
<phunyguy> recent events being a good example.
<not_rww> +1 all above
<AlanBell> ok, I can reflect that in the minutes, a general preference to use -irc more
<AlanBell> #topic Operator Applicants
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Operator Applicants
<AlanBell> next item is operator applicants, now we were doing this on a per-cycle basis after UDS
<AlanBell> then UDS got a bit confusing, but we have just had one, so lets process some queues
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7121828/
<IdleOne> I think this should be tabled for now. I would like to discuss letting the channel ops pick and chose their own ops for the channels. IRCC can keep a veto power just in case it is needed.
<AlanBell> that is the list of all the channel groups on launchpad and the people who have applied to join
<Pici> what are the numbers?
<AlanBell> Pici: launchpad karma I think, for no particular reason
<Pici> o
<IdleOne> channels should be viewed as individual sub-teams to the irc-team.
<phunyguy> I picked #ubuntu-ops by accident, that can be removed.
<AlanBell> phunyguy: sure, will do
<phunyguy> I have not been an op long enough for that
<phunyguy> wait, I did apply for #ubuntu... am I missing it in there?
<not_rww> you're not in the proposed list for https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-ops
<AlanBell> IdleOne: channels are individual subteams on launchpad, and we do invite people to comment on applicants, I think for now we have to follow the process we have, which isn't completely incompatible with what you are saying
<not_rww> also, I'd like to postpone this topic until next meeting because I have input on some applicants that I want to express in private, and didn't realize it was coming up today
<not_rww> i am aware that this is my fault for failing at reading
<IdleOne> AlanBell: understood. I'll propose for next meeting perhaps.
<phunyguy> :(
<phunyguy> I am 99.9% sure I applied in #ubuntu.  Oh well.  I will reapply.
<AlanBell> ok, so I need to clarify where we are right now :)
<AlanBell> the process is that at some point (now) we put out a call for operators, and look at who is already in the queue
<AlanBell> at that point we sort out any administrative errors in the queues, like that phunyguy in the wrong one, and that deactivated account
<AlanBell> then we have a feedback period
<jussi> there is a clause there (iirc) that the ircc can just "approve" people if it wants
<IdleOne> AlanBell: I think that the IRCC voting on who should be an op in which channels is a little bit too much micromanaging. Let the channel ops decide who they think is best for their channel. I know many of us have ops over a lot of the same channels, but I think the channel ops are best placed to know who will be a good fit.
<AlanBell> !canibeanop
<ubottu> If you are interested in joining the Ubuntu IRC Team, take a look at both http://www.siltala.net/2010/03/24/ops-teams-applications-announcement/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements for info on the process and requirements. You can also learn about what the job entails from people in #ubuntu-irc.
<AlanBell> Apply to join the appropriate operator team(s) on Launchpad. For example, if you wish to become an #ubuntu-devel operator, you should apply to join ~irc-ubuntu-devel-ops on Launchpad.
<IdleOne> anyway, I'll drop it for now and propose something for a later meeting.
<AlanBell> When the Ubuntu IRC Council notices the need to have more operators in a particular channel or channels, they will send an email to the ubuntu-irc mailing list. After this email is sent, there will be a one week period for any last minute applications and/or for applicants to finish updating their wiki pages. During this time Testimonials and concerns can be emailed direct to the Ubuntu IRC Council mailing list, or listed on the ...
<AlanBell> ... applicants wiki page.
<AlanBell> ^ that is where we are now
<AlanBell> so, I am letting people know who is in the queue right now, and going to send a mail to the list opening the one week period
<phunyguy> please include me in #ubuntu on that email, I hit the button on LP.
<AlanBell> the channel ops are best placed to give feedback
<jussi> ahh the clause was about dropping applicants, not approving them
<MooDoo> ok sorry all, my little one is playing up, i'm gonna have to bail.
<AlanBell> yup, we can remove applicants from the list if they are not appropriate
<AlanBell> no problem MooDoo o/
<MooDoo> thanks all
<IdleOne> I'm out too. Good meeting thanks all.
<AlanBell> so, yes, operators in a channel are well placed to give feedback on the applicants, I will try and stress that
<IdleOne> oh, one more thing. idoru can go bye bye.
<AlanBell> we just don't have a channel operator voting process at the moment, but sure, one could be proposed and thought through
<AlanBell> in practice I would be surprised if the IRCC in any way ever "overruled" feedback from a channel operator
<AlanBell> though actually, it probably has happened that channel operators didn't give any feedback and were later surprised that someone was appointed
<AlanBell> anyhow, that is where we are, and I will be mailing the list accordingly
<AlanBell> #topic Membership applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Membership applications
<AlanBell> no membership applications on the agenda, but pretty much anyone who is an op would find it easy to demonstrate a significant and sustained contribution if they applied
<AlanBell> #topic Remove idoru from #ubuntu-offtopic and keep it out of there - rww
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Remove idoru from #ubuntu-offtopic and keep it out of there - rww
<AlanBell> so, idoru, any support for keeping it? anyone know why it is there?
<not_rww> because we used to get spambots in there, probably
<not_rww> i very much want it gone
<phunyguy> I fear teh spambots will come back and then we will want idoru back
<phunyguy> the*
<jussi> not_rww: why?
<AlanBell> the fun things about decisions on IRC is that nothing is final
<tsimpson> what's the problem with it being there anyway?
<AlanBell> so is it randomly klining people?
<not_rww> jussi: because it has not killed a spambot in a long while and has killed legitimate users, and freenode is bad at keeping an eye on klines it sets to make sure they're legit
<AlanBell> on a technical level, what do we have to do, ask staff to get it to part?
<not_rww> please refer to the comments I made when it got removed from #ubuntu, they apply to #ubuntu-offtopic too except more strongly
<not_rww> AlanBell: yes
<phunyguy> or kickban it
<not_rww> phunyguy: it's not affected by bans
<phunyguy> o.
<AlanBell> ok, anyone actively want to keep it?
<jussi> nope
<AlanBell> #agreed idoru to be removed from -offtopic
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Operator team meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<phunyguy> it can be added back again
<AlanBell> it can
<not_rww> i have an AOB item
<AlanBell> so, anyone else want to discuss anything else
<AlanBell> go ahead not_rww
<not_rww> I was pondering ways of making #ubuntu less broken recently and thought that perhaps adapting the 5-a-day bug system to support would be interesting. I'm curious if anyone else has thoughts / thinks this is a good idea.
<phunyguy> I don't know what that is.
<knome> adapting in what way?
<not_rww> i.e., trying to cultivate sustained contribution to #ubuntu by encouraging people to answer/participate in 5 support questions a day
<AlanBell> interesting
<phunyguy> eehhh
<not_rww> knome: one component of 5-a-day is tracking success over time, and I'm not sure how one would do that on IRC
<AlanBell> bit of gamification
<knome> not_rww, yep.
<phunyguy> I have a bad feeling abotu it, but I am also new.
<not_rww> AlanBell: indeed, which is good or bad depending on your opinion of gamification
<knome> i don't think it's a bad thing to come up with new ways to motivate people to help
<knome> but what's the "reward", since not_rww said, there's not really an easy way to track it
<not_rww> (or is there...)
<knome> sounds like either manual work or, ugh, pushing all questions through a bot
<phunyguy> I am not saying that coming up with ideas is bad
<phunyguy> I was actually talking about the idea.
<knome> phunyguy, so what's bad with the ideA?
<AlanBell> knome: not neccessarily
<jussi> metabot used to identify questions...
<not_rww> or just voluntary reporting to a bot when you answer/participate in a question
<phunyguy> knome, I don't really know, I just get a weird feeling about it.
<not_rww> since it's not like gaming it is going to get you much, and you're limited to getting "points" for five a day
<knome> jussi, but not if they were answered/who answered them, and if that was succesful or not
<phunyguy> like it won't last.
<phunyguy> Stuff like that works on forums, not sure it would work on IRC
<not_rww> "if that was successful" i don't think that's possible/useful to track anyway. not all bug reports are successful either, but they still counted
<not_rww> anyways, was just one of my random thoughts. but if it's not a good idea, we probably should ponder what /is/, since i have bad feelings about the quality of #ubuntu support right now
<knome> i think it would be fair to shout out to people that "you can do 5-a-day with irc support too, though you won't get rewarded points for that"
<phunyguy> not_rww: I do agree that support has been a bit terrible there.
<AlanBell> it would be possible to have a points system and leaderboard type thing
<knome> #xubuntu has lately went into a factoid-bashing mode too
<phunyguy> 9 times out of 10, I go in there to ask a question, then spend 3 hours helping others when I get no answer
<knome> maybe we should have a "IRC supporter day"
<knome> with some sessions on how to be helpful, or something
<knome> could also do sessions about bot usage etc.
<knome> just award points per lines said per day, and kick unhelpful/offtopic people :P
<AlanBell> grep for "thanks knome" or something
<knome> hmpf,
<not_rww> AlanBell: thankbot!
<not_rww> "lines said per day" encourages bad behavior, unfortunately
<knome> haven't heard that too much...
<not_rww> ( http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/08/24/articulating-irc-contributions-concisely/ )
<knome> not_rww, sure... but that's why i said kick unhelpful/offtopic people
<not_rww> knome: yep, but I prefer systems that don't encourage such things, much easier than working around such encouragement
<AlanBell> not_rww: yeah, thankbot, but more seamless
<knome> a thankbot would be manual rewarding
<not_rww> ( I've dealt with this problem a lot with public pisg stats tracking in various channels )
<knome> doing it automatically is hard
<phunyguy> so, this has gone an hour and 41 minutes over schedule already.
<phunyguy> just throwing that out there
<not_rww> yeah, we should probably table this and ponder it for future
<AlanBell> phunyguy: yes, it has, I know
<knome> phunyguy, at least things get dicussed
<tsimpson> perhaps start a ML discussion
<AlanBell> any other AOB?
<phunyguy> yes this is true.
<jussi> yes
<AlanBell> go ahead jussi
<jussi> the ircc hasnt actioned my expiring from teams, why not?
<AlanBell> not got round to it yet, wasn't on the top of the priority pile :)
<AlanBell> and I wasn't sure if you had finished expiring from thigns
<knome> jussi, file a bug.
<jussi> also, on the incentive thing, perhaps even takng nominations for quarterly "helper of #ubuntu" or somethign?
<not_rww> jussi: i note you can remove your own flags in ChanServ
<not_rww> not that you should have to, but it's an option
<jussi> not_rww: unfortunately when I tried I wouldnt let me. why?
<not_rww> jussi: /msg chanserv flags #channelname jussi -*
<not_rww> erm, jussi01 **
<jussi> [11:38:49] [ChanServ] You are not authorized to execute this command.
<not_rww> if you use the correct nick?
<jussi> anyway, lets not fill up meeting with this
<AlanBell> we have quite a lot of expiries to catch up on, I have a launchpad script that I compare with chanserv lists, it just takes quite a lot of hours to do
<AlanBell> any other AOB
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 19 20:46:28 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-19-18.03.moin.txt
<knome> hm, yes
<knome> right, no
<knome> ;P
<AlanBell> thanks all, that was epic
<phunyguy> ^ indeed
<AlanBell> next time knome, add it to the agenda
<phunyguy> I am exhausted
<knome> so i can ask again after one month?
<knome> :P
<knome> thanks!
<knome> that's... responsive ;)
<AlanBell> and in future I won't let things overrun, we just had a heap on today and I knew people would be grumpy if I bumped things to next month this time :)
<AlanBell> knome: you can add it to the agenda right now
<jussi> meh
<jussi> overrun is fine if there is important stuff I think
<knome> yeah, i can add it to the agenda now, but it will be discussed in one month
<knome> if things overrun, run a meeting more often
<phunyguy> jussi: yes, it's just tough on folks in the USA that are still at work.
<AlanBell> things can be discussed at any time
<phunyguy> :)
<AlanBell> things get *decided* in meetings
<not_rww> jussi: righto, so we're not in a meeting. I'm pretty sure that would work if you did flags #channelname jussi01 -*
<not_rww> jussi: because I've done it a bunch of times personally, so...
<jussi> not_rww: maybe, Ill give it a go later
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-20
<bdmurray> I'm ready for a meeting
<caribou> me too
<cjwatson> slangasek,barry,doko,jodh,stgraber,xnox: around?
 * barry waves
<cjwatson> no infinity here
<MooDoo> I'm just here, but I'll watch any way :D
<jodh> o/
<doko> did we move it?
<cjwatson> doko: I think google calendar did
<cjwatson> doko: it's the weeks of confusion due to eu/us daylight savings desync
 * stgraber waves
<doko> ahh, ok
<barry> cjwatson: should i file a bug to remove dst from trusty?
<cjwatson> barry: I'd like it removed from the planet, personally
<barry> +1
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 15:05:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<xnox> cjwatson: hey!
<caribou> cjwatson: I would like to go first if you don't mind
<caribou> cjwatson: I will need to leave the meeting in ~20min
<cjwatson> $ echo caribou $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox infinity)
<cjwatson> caribou bdmurray xnox barry infinity slangasek stgraber doko cjwatson jodh
<cjwatson> MooDoo: just a quick team standup, may not be very exciting I'm afraid :)
<caribou> cjwatson: shall I proceed ?
<cjwatson> yes, please do
<caribou> weekly highlights
<cjwatson> the above was the ordering
<caribou> * Tested backport of kdump-tools to Precise
<caribou> * Picked up some Work Items for updates to the Server Guide
<caribou>   - /etc/network/interfaces
<caribou>   - uvtool
<caribou> * Worked on various charms issues
<caribou> Done
<bdmurray> working with dames regarding moving the error tracker to prodstack
<bdmurray> worked on an apport branch to install specific package versions when retracing
<bdmurray> updated integration-tests for the error tracker for testing prodstack
<bdmurray> test of phased-updater with prodstack version of errors
<bdmurray> attempted to get the error-tracker working with python-django 1.5
<bdmurray> investigation into missing detailed stacktrace for a ubiquity crash (LP: #1267112)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1267112 in Daisy "errors indicates a retraced crash but isn't showing a stack trace" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1267112
<bdmurray> pushed daisy code to log a traceback if setting up the retrace env fails
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have daisy updated
<bdmurray> manually retraced the crash provided by jibel for bug 1267112
<bdmurray> sorted out why the ubiquity crashes are disappearing (bug 1267112)
<bdmurray> tested submit.py changes in canonistack (looks good)
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal regarding python crash detection for daisy
<bdmurray> resolved an issue with the phased updater not stopping phased-updates due to a traceback
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1071025
<ubottu> bug 1071025 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade allows both -d and -p switches although neither takes effect" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071025
<bdmurray> reported and fixed ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1289580 to improve crash report consolidation
<ubottu> bug 1289580 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "dist upgrade crash tracebacks include a tmpdir name" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289580
<bdmurray> overrode blocked phasing of ubuntu-release-upgrader (new crashes are seen because of how duplicates are consolidated)
<bdmurray> reported ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1289604
<bdmurray> uploaded Saucy SRU for ubuntu-release-upgrader bugs 1289580 and bug 1289604
<ubottu> bug 1289604 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "ubuntu-release-upgrader doesn't depend on python-apport" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289604
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader change to include DistUpgradeVersion from the release-upgrader tarball in the Package line of apport crashes
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager Precise SRU for bug 1289580
<bdmurray> reported and fixed apt-clone bug 1290584
<ubottu> bug 1290584 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "apt-clone restore should have a use my mirror option" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290584
<bdmurray> uploaded fix for update-notifier bug 1227000
<ubottu> bug 1227000 in The Ubuntu Power Consumption Project "update-notifier is polling every 5 seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227000
<bdmurray> uploaded update-manager fix for bug 1290825
<ubottu> bug 1290825 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Upgrade using do-release-upgrade takes a long time to start because 'iptables -L' runs with DNS lookups enabled" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290825
<bdmurray> investigation into update-manager test failures
<bdmurray> I could use some help with that last thing regarding update-manager test failures
<bdmurray> And the error tracker should be moving to prodstack today!
<cjwatson> finally
<cjwatson> :-)
<bdmurray> â done â
<xnox> \o/
<xnox> * vUDS:
<xnox>   - participated in the discussions, following up from that
<xnox> * python2 / ap transition:
<xnox>   - pending release of phablet-tools from silo
<xnox>   - pending release of gallery-app click
<xnox>   - pending release of calendar-app click
<xnox> * x86-emulator:
<xnox>   - uploaded bionic i686 toolchain
<xnox>   - working on packaging changes in src:android to build x86 emulator images
<xnox> * release:
<xnox>   - worked on reviewing download pages / messaging on those for 14.04 release date
<xnox> * qt5.2 transition:
<xnox>   - helped unwinding / unblocking the transition and building arch-restricted packages
<xnox> * probably other things I missed.
<xnox> TODO:
<xnox>   * boost1.54 bugfix update
<xnox>   * mdadm transition finalisation
<xnox> ..
<xnox> I am away next week, snowboarding.
<barry> phone: gallery_app pkg_resources branch.  camera_app py3autopilot branch.  ci-train for landing system-image 2.2.  extensive testing.  had meeting on qa for system updates and worked on the system-image test plan.
<barry> debuntu: worked a bit on LP: #1220013 and  LP: #1272359.  LP: #1269898.  sponsored nose 1.3.1-1.  Python 3.4 and ensurepip.  LP: #1295153.
<barry> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1220013 in python-apt (Ubuntu) "python-apt can SIGSEGV when encountering Packages stanzas with no Description field (was: update-apt-xapian-index crashed with SIGSEGV in File())" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220013
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1272359 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Trusty) "Test suite fails in all versions of Python" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272359
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1269898 in oneconf (Ubuntu Trusty) "The use of __file__ causes the tests to fail in Python 3.4" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1269898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295153 in python3.3 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Remove Python 3.3 from Trusty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295153
<cjwatson> infinity and slangasek not here
<cjwatson> stgraber:
<stgraber> LXC: New CI infrastructure, code reviews, ...
<stgraber> logind: Finished writing cgmanager integration patches, now blocked on the cgmanager MIR
<stgraber> network: Working on a bunch of fixes for ifupdown/ifenslave. Fixed a small bug in isc-dhcp.
<stgraber> system-image: Renamed all channels to ubuntu-touch/<channel>
<stgraber> other: reviewd OFED packages, vUDS, travel plans for Malta, couple of CI-Train landings
<stgraber> (DONE)
<doko> - came back from vacation without computer, wading through email ...
<doko> - intend to work on ftbfs, toolchain updates, python3.4, python3.3 removal, and on the fallout of the two test rebuilds
<doko> (done)
<cjwatson> python3.3 removal sounds promising
<cjwatson> Last week: vUDS; landed libclick, followed by another landing to add interfaces for getting manifests and frameworks; worked on porting various bits of the phone stack to libclick for performance (1.4 seconds shaved off app startup, waiting to land).
<cjwatson> Architecture porting assistance for the Qt 5.2 landing and fallout.  Bits of this continue.
<cjwatson> Landed new ubuntu-sdk-14.04-*-dev1 click frameworks.
<cjwatson> Landed a slew of "click chroot" improvements, so both 13.10 and 14.04 chroots should work now.
<cjwatson> Working on getting ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev:armhf installable on other architectures.  Currently blocked on https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/dee/multiarch/+merge/211463 and https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/libaccounts-glib/multiarch/+merge/211468.
<cjwatson> Helping jodh out with upstart async-spawn work.
<cjwatson> ..
<jodh> * vUDS.
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items: Working with cjwatson on async
<jodh>   issues.
<jodh> * other: Initial reviewed of plymouth MP for xnox (still need to re-review).
<jodh> â¤¤
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<cjwatson> anything else people have for today?
<bdmurray> I'd appreciate it if someone else could have a look at t the update-manager test failures
<cjwatson> ok, just current trunk?
<cjwatson> been a while since I looked at u-m
<bdmurray> yeah, its been failing since february it seems
<barry> bdmurray: is there a bug?
<bdmurray> barry: I don't think so
<barry> bdmurray: okay
<cjwatson> bdmurray: erm, remind me how to run the tests?
<bdmurray> xvfb-run nosetests3 --tests tests/test_update_list.py
 * barry grabs the branch
<cjwatson> oh, well if barry's keen ... :-)
<bdmurray> nothing has changed in update-manager itself
<barry> well, i'll take a look :)
<cjwatson> might be worth trying with saucy's python-apt, that seems like a plausible candidate
<barry> bdmurray: FAILED (errors=1, failures=5)
<barry> is that what you see?
<bdmurray> I did try it with python-apt 0.9.1ubuntu1 and it still failed
<bdmurray> barry: yes
<barry> cool.  i'll poke at it more after lunch
<bdmurray> xnox: you said you'd updated app-install-data?
<bdmurray> barry: thanks!
<xnox> bdmurray: yes, I did.
<xnox> bdmurray: i didn't update "command-not-found" and I'm not sure how that is generated.
<xnox> should I contact mvo about that?
<xnox> bdmurray: well the data used by command-not-found.
<bdmurray> xnox: I think so, but I'll check my notes too.
<xnox> bdmurray: well, it's before my time. And there was nothing substantial on the wiki.ubuntu.com (apart from original implementation blueprints / plannning)
<barry> xnox: yes, i think you should contact mvo.  iirc, it's rather tricky to update that data
<cjwatson> xnox: mvo is back soon, so maybe it can wait a couple of weeks :)
<bdmurray> http://bignay.canonical.com/~mvo/command-not-found/
<bdmurray> that has recent data
<doko> cjwatson, start of April?
<cjwatson> think so
<xnox> bdmurray: oh, excellent! if that is still cron-running, i think i should be able to figure out how to update the package with data off there.
<xnox> bdmurray: the generating new data is what I was after ;-)
<bdmurray> xnox: pre-build.sh seems to call update-from-web.sh which gets data from there
<cjwatson> ok, anything else?
<xnox> bdmurray: right, i think i need to reconcile lp:command-not-found, lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/command-not-found/ubuntu, lp:ubuntu/command-not-found, do pre-build.sh, generate new upload and upload. And then it should be all good. I'll work on doing that.
<bdmurray> xnox: thanks
<cjwatson> right, I think we're done, further command-not-found discussion -> #ubuntu-devel :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:31:45 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-20-15.05.moin.txt
<cjwatson> thanks all
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<mhall119> o/
<jose> mhall119: looks like DST corrections played on you :P
<mhall119> jose: yes :(
<YokoZar> Hey, at least you got to lose an hour's sleep
<dholbach> hey
<jose> hey YokoZar! long time no see!
<YokoZar> Hey there :)
<dholbach> all rightie... who's here from CC and LoCo Council? :)
<jose> coolbhavi will be joining us in 2mins, PabloRubianes and I are already here
<PabloRubianes> LoCo Council o/
<dholbach> welcome welcome everyone! :)
<PabloRubianes> thanks
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 17:05:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<dholbach> #chairs YokoZar mhall119
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> #chair YokoZar mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar dholbach mhall119
<elfy> hi
<dholbach> aha!
<dholbach> #chair elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar dholbach elfy mhall119
<jose> a wild elfy appeared!
<pleia2> o/
<dholbach> #topic Checking in with the Loco Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Checking in with the Loco Council
<dholbach> #chair pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, jose: thanks a lot for joining us today
<dholbach> How are you doing? How is the LoCo Council doing right now?
<jose> hello hello :)
<PabloRubianes> hello
<czajkowski> aloha
<jose> I think PabloRubianes should go, he's been there before I joined :)
<PabloRubianes> well here I go
<dholbach> hey coolbhavi
<PabloRubianes> I think that with the addition of the new members we had a new energy in the team
<coolbhavi> hey dholbach
<pleia2> that's great
<elfy> always good to hear about new energy
<PabloRubianes> mainly in the this period we had a LoCo Check in
<PabloRubianes> we contact all the LoCos listed in the loco portal
<PabloRubianes> this is something we want to do every 6 months cicle
<PabloRubianes> is not part of the verified process just a "hello how are you? can we help in something?"
<YokoZar> It's a good idea ;)
<YokoZar> An inspired one, even
<elfy> yep
<elfy> is it doable though
<coolbhavi> yes and the response was also quite good except few teams who failed to respond
<elfy> it is then :)
<coolbhavi> even after say a week
<PabloRubianes> we got in the past some feedback of not been as present as LoCos expected so this can help with this
<jose> http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2014/02/16/interim-report-on-2014-census-effort/ has an interim report published a month ago
<dholbach> great... I could imagine that if you run something like this the first time, you get a few who don't respond
<czajkowski> coolbhavi: who did you contact was it the person listed on LP or LTP or how did you directly contact the team ?
<dholbach> did you mail the contacts of the loco or their mailing lists?
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> #chair czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<jose> the contacts directly, mostly we wanted to see if the contact was still active and how the team was doing
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: team contact
<coolbhavi> czajkowski, we contacted the team contacts
<czajkowski> dholbach: great minds :)
<jose> I think that our main goal is to demonstrate teams and team contacts (who often have some questions) that there's people there to give a hand when needed, and we tried to achieve that with the check-ins
<dholbach> that's great
 * coolbhavi remembers the d-a-t reachout feedback cycle here 
<elfy> seems a lot of loco's didn't respond then
<jose> that was the main issue, yes
<dholbach> I could imagine that in some cases you hit LoCos whose contacts got too busy, or where it might make sense to explain the distinction between "a contact" (somebody who can be contacted) and a "team leader" :)
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: busy or not the contact anymore
<coolbhavi> yes again few who responded said our loco team is not so active
<PabloRubianes> sometimes LoCo info gets outdated
<dholbach> did you have follow-up conversations with some of the teams? like the ones who said "yeah, we actually do need help"
<czajkowski> jose: can I suggest mailing the teams directly as I know some contacts may not be the contact any more nad there could be others who running things
<jose> czajkowski: that's actually a good idea, which is what actually happens in ubuntu-de, maybe we can try that with the teams that didn't respond
<czajkowski> jose: +1
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes basically and the questions that we got were mostly on loco resources
<PabloRubianes> and on LoCo activity
<PabloRubianes> the need of new members or members who want to organize is common
<jose> about that contact/team leader thing, we're trying to define it as usually the contact doesn't have contact with the team leader, and it's more useful to have team leaders as contact
<jose> s
<dholbach> jose, I think that it'd be super helpful to get that message across
<jose> would a blog post stating that sound good to you?
<dholbach> yeah, that might be a good start :)
<elfy> it would sound good to me too :)
<jose> added to our trello board :)
<pleia2> so I'm not so sure about that
<PabloRubianes> another stuff we were working in
<jose> pleia2: about what?
<pleia2> I like the contact is a delegated thing, if a leader doesn't want to do it they can tell someone else to be contact
<pleia2> requiring leaders to take on specific responsibilities seems a bit odd
<pleia2> making it more clear that contacts and leaders must communicate is good, but requiring leaders to handle that administrative thing... no so much
<elfy> pleia2: possibly so - but if the contact isn't contactable then I'd say that at the least a leader should be
<YokoZar> Does the loco council feel that the situation with Loco logistic support (CDs, etc) is better than in the past?
<coolbhavi> how about getting the mails on the mailing list if available so that if members see it they would be able to respond?
<pleia2> I'm happy to be a leader and contact, by my two co-leaders seem quite happy not to have to deal with that responsiblity
<elfy> pleia2: of the 156 teams contacted, the council only received responses from 53 teams would suggest that something needs to be looked at
<pleia2> elfy: oh of course, I just don't like top down mandates of roles ;)
<mhall119> ha, and now I'm late
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> contacts and leaders must work together, but I don't think they need to be the same people
<jose> pleia2: I think that what you're mentioning may work for some teams, but for others it doesn't, contacts are the ones that usually drop more quicker
<czajkowski> I think that you're right to try something new
<pleia2> jose: that's kind of my point :) teams organize how they organize, mandating that a leader must be a contact also won't work for everyone, so why not just say that contacts and leaders must work together?
<dholbach> pleia2, hum... that's at least how I understood the conversation earlier - that a team leader doesn't need to be the contact, but that we need somebody who's contactable
<jose> YokoZar: I think we're good with it, communication with Canonical in those terms is good since I joined, and Michelle/Cezzaine have been super responsive to all our enquiries
<czajkowski> and see if something needs to be tweeked/changed slightly in order to get more feedback from the teams
<dholbach> (or maybe I misunderstood the last parts of the conversation now)
<pleia2> my concern really is just that we don't want to enforce structure on teams
<dholbach> ok
<elfy> pleia2: I would agree with that - it should be up to the loco and council - but to have a loco uncontactable doesn't work for anyone
<dholbach> "have a contactable contact" sounds like a reasonable request to me ;-)
<pleia2> I'd be annoyed if my team were required to all of a sudden make our trio of leaders contacts too
<pleia2> dholbach: yeah
<mhall119> when you say you want leaders to be contactable, what does that mean? that they subscribe to loco-contacts? That you (the LC) can sent them email directly?
<pleia2> mhall119: they emailed all contacts directly, many didn't reply
<jose> I'd say that when us (LC) email them directly they respond
 * pleia2 nods
<mhall119> it seems to me that it's a judgement call, whether a particular message should go to just team contacts, or contacts *and* leaders
<mhall119> for example, if it's to announce global jam, that's appropriate for just contacts, if it's for a team health check, that should be both contacts and leaders
<jose> in this case, which was about health, we tried to contact leaders without getting an answer from many of them
<jose> global jam-like things are usually announced via the loco-contacts ML, so it goes to the contacts
<mhall119> in that case, it sound like a separate issue from who is listed as a contact
<pleia2> I never did like the name of the loco-contacts mailing list ;)
<pleia2> should just be locoteams, everyone should subscribe
<pleia2> (indeed, I tell people to subscribe all the time)
 * mhall119 isn't opposed to that, but sounds like it should be it's own topic
<pleia2> yeah
<jose> I think we need to further discuss how can we make team leaders contactable in case we need it, and still don't enforce structure on the teams
 * pleia2 nods
<mhall119> yeah, leaders should always be responsive to direct emails from the LC
<mhall119> IMO, that is one of the responsibilities of being a leader
<pleia2> contact is the person who is the liason for 3rd party things (supplies from canonical, books from publishers)
<jose> one thing that I saw was that when the LC directly contacted a team leader in a certain team, he didn't respond, but when he got an email from another team member saying to contact us he did respond
<pleia2> and can reply to inqueries
<pleia2> requiring that person to be a leader is... a different skillset :)
<jose> pleia2: +1
<elfy> I don't understand why there is an issue with a 'leader' being contactable
<jose> elfy: it's just that some of them aren't, for unknown reasons
<pleia2> elfy: there is a difference between "contact" and "contactable"
<elfy> yea - I get that :)
<elfy> pleia2: agreed
<pleia2> leaders should respond, certainly
<pleia2> but "contact" is a specific role
<elfy> mmm
<jose> so we're going to further discuss that and we'll report the results to the CC
<elfy> thanks jose
<pleia2> thanks jose
<dholbach> great - thanks a lot
<dholbach> what has been keeping the LoCo Council busy in the last cycle?
<jose> :)
<jose> we've basically had some discussions about how things are moving
<jose> we discuss everything on a Trello board and have a voting system there
<pleia2> cool
<jose> any LC member can propose an item to be discussed, and once it has 4 votes it's moved for discussion
<jose> we've also set bug status definitions on the ubuntu-locoteams project (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/BugStatus)
<coolbhavi> dholbach, reverification rebranding and reachout  3R's basically and internal discussions.
<jose> about verification, we're using both the traditional meeting method, where the team leader attends the LC meeting set to be done on this channel and we check things, and our new bug/email method
<jose> a bug is created on the ubuntu-locoteams project for each (re-)verification to be done on the cycle, and with those bug statuses we've set we track the progress of the (re-)verification
<dholbach> and that's working well?
<jose> works better than I expected, most leaders prefer to do it via email
<jose> so how it works is, once they post the link to their verification application, we check it, and once the first vote is casted all LC members have 7 days to vote
<dholbach> nice :)
<jose> in case not all votes have been casted within the first 7 days, then it only needs only +4 votes, which would make it positive even if the other 2 missing people voted -1
<dholbach> it's interesting to see which forms of organisation work well for which teams :)
<elfy> :)
<jose> I think it's basically because timezones suck :)
<elfy> ha ha ha
<dholbach> that makes a lot of sense :)
 * elfy likes the "votes have been casted within the first 7 day ..." thing and ponders 
<jose> oh, and we're trying to encourage as many teams as possible to be verified so they can get their DVD pack from Canonical
<coolbhavi> dholbach, we call it a vote shot clock and as jose said  differing timezones are sometimes tough to handle
<dholbach> yeah, I remember a few other boards having similar issues - mailing list threads going on forever, people forgetting to vote, etc
<jose> the verification system allows this to be more efficient than approval as teams find it easier - we only check that the leader/contact have signed the CoC, that all resources are set up and follow the naming standards, and they're alive and have good health
<dholbach> so this is interesting to see :)
<cprofitt> yes, this is good to see
<jose> hey, cprofitt!
<cprofitt> hello jose
<dholbach> Did you get many direct enquiries from LoCos themselves? I think I recall this taking up the majority of time of the LC in the past.
<mhall119> jose: are the verification requirements listed somewhere?
<jose> dholbach: not that much, what consumes most of our time is discussion as well as verifications and guiding people for a successful verification
<PabloRubianes> Another topic that we are working is the subteam thing
<jose> mhall119: we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamVerificationGuidelines
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: might remember this
<mhall119> thanks jose
<jose> sure
<jose> oh, yep, the subteams issue
<PabloRubianes> we are trying to see which is the best solution for this
<PabloRubianes> as some teams want to divide but we dont have resources for all
<PabloRubianes> and some of the divisions could kill teams
<PabloRubianes> and we have the fact that USA for example is divided
<cprofitt> the issue of sub-teams is a complex one...
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: yes it is
<PabloRubianes> but we want to have a conclusion to this topic soon to move forward this
<cprofitt> it becomes difficult to monitor teams as the number grows... but I do understand the desire to organize on a smaller geographic region
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: I always believe the brazilian model is the best
<PabloRubianes> one main team and subteams within the team
<PabloRubianes> not separate locos
<jose> and it's only considered as one team, with a board, though
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes: just keep in mind there is no solution that everyone will be satisfied with ... you have to do what you feel is withing the capabilities of the community to handle and is healthy for the loco teams
<jose> cprofitt: +1
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: yes
<cprofitt> What I have always been concerned with is the splintering of teams due to personalities and not other factors
<PabloRubianes> cprofitt: we also care about the resources as DVDs and conf packs too
<jose> that is something that should never happen, conflicts are to be resolved
<dholbach> jose, the podcast you're doing on Saturday(?) - how many of them did you do before?
<jose> dholbach: 0, it's the first edition ever
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: is a hangout
<dholbach> ah... yes, a hangout - right :)
<cprofitt> PabloRubianes: I think the resource issue can be dealt with regardless of how many teams / sub teams there are... but the question would be how much time would be necessary to manage it...
<dholbach> nice :-)
<dholbach> I'm looking forward to it
<jose> that takes us to the next point, in our efforts to engage with the community we'll be having a monthly ubuntuonair show, the LoCo Teams update (http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2014/02/28/loco-teams-update-on-air/)
<cprofitt> Nice, what do you plan on covering in these?
<jose> the show is to be community-focused, so it's a show made by LoCo Teams for LoCo Teams, anyone can submit news
<jose> basically what teams have been doing
<cprofitt> nice
<dholbach> jose, I added a few small things to your notes :)
<jose> we want to recognize the efforts of the loco community, and also use it to announce a couple things or give some advice in terms of event organizing
<jose> dholbach: cool, I'll check them in a while
<dholbach> I think it's great - especially if you showcase great work which has been happening elsewhere
<jose> we expect it to happen more frequently if needed (if teams send so many events we can't cover all of them doing a monthly 1h session)
<pleia2> yeah, I'm really looking forward to the results from this :)
<jose> we thought on a Saturday as most LoCo people are off-work that day
<elfy> that all sounds like good stuff
<PabloRubianes> yes having events in not working days is something we find important
<cprofitt> I think there are a lot of positive angles to it and look forward to seeing it in action
<dholbach> Is there anything the CC could help with?
<jose> well, if you guys can give us some input about the subteams thing that would be useful
<PabloRubianes> yeap
<cprofitt> input on sub-teams...
<dholbach> I could imagine that that could result in a loooooooooooooooong discussion. :-)
<pleia2> again
<cprofitt> I think you should look at both sides of that issue and determine the road blocks
<elfy> again for you pleia2 :p
<dholbach> shall we take that offline or discuss in a hangout on air maybe?
<cprofitt> once you have that list you could submit it to the CC for input
<pleia2> elfy: there have been many threads about pros and cons on loco-contacts
<elfy> I don't doubt it :)
<dholbach> I'm done with questions... pleia2, cprofitt, elfy, czajkowski, mhall119, YokoZar: anything else from you?
<pleia2> I'm good
<mhall119> nothing from me
<cprofitt> nothing ele from me
<coolbhavi> I recall the pains when czajkowski sergio chris n myself went through brainstorming on this when we started
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
 * mhall119 needs to get his team re-verified
<YokoZar> I'm good, thank you guys :)
<elfy> nothing from me thanks
<jose> well, if you have anything to say the team is completely open to suggestions, we want to make the loco experience better than ever :)
<dholbach> great, thanks so much for your hard work on the LC
<coolbhavi> yes thanks to all the CC members too :)
<dholbach> hugs! :)
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<dholbach> and thanks for making time
 * jose hugs dholbach
<dholbach> #topic Any other business...
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business...
<PabloRubianes> no problem thanks for having us
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> Does anyone have anything else to discuss?
<dholbach> Looks like all's good.
<dholbach> Thanks everyone!
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 17:59:02 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-20-17.05.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks all
<jose> enjoy the rest of your day, everyone :)
<coolbhavi> good night all btw striking midnight here :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-03-22
<howefield_afk> yu
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-16
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> cyphermox, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<ScottK> \o
<ScottK> I guess I'm supposed to chair today.
<ScottK> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 16 15:08:12 2015 UTC.  The chair is ScottK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<ScottK> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<Laney> A gentle introduction for cyphermox
<ScottK> Not sure if I did that right.
<Laney> Yeah, don't think the bot confirms #link
 * stgraber waves
<ScottK> In any case, the agenda is light.
<ScottK> Anyone have anything not on the agenda?
<cyphermox> not me
<Laney> Yes
<ScottK> Go for it.
<Laney> Need to finish Noskcaj
<Laney> ...'s application
<ScottK> OK.  Will someone volunteer to be the point person for collecting and tallying votes?
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-March/000821.html
<Laney> then https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-March/000822.html
<Laney> I think there's still some +4/+1 confusion
<ScottK> So if cyphermox were to vote -1 0 or +1, what happens?
<Laney> i.e. is this in doubt or not?
<Laney> It's at 0 currently, so basically a casting vote by my interpretation
<ScottK> So where do we have the vote counting rules documented?
<Laney> Nowhere
<Laney> do you remember that it came up recently?
<micahg_mobile> I thought the vote scheme was settled a couple years ago
<xnox> essentially if cyphermox +1 -> win, else -> deffered to reapply again.
<Laney> when we talked about DM upload rights
<Laney> we decided then that we were voting to +1
<Laney> based on an email from Mark that I found at the time
<ScottK> OK.  Where was that documented?
<ScottK> OK.  We ought to have it better documented where we can find it.
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000999.html â that one
<Laney> IIRC
<Laney> I think it was stgraber who was disagreeing
<Laney> let me just mail the CC and get them to write it up somewhere
<stgraber> might have been, though nowadays I'd be fine with documenting that the score must be +1 or higher and that at least 50% +1 (quorum) of the DMB members voted
<ScottK> OK.
<micahg_mobile> Well, as I recall, the DMB had a different scheme because of the care needed when granting upload rights
<Laney> The reason that +4 came about, in my mind, is that this is when the application is no longer in doubt
<Laney> i.e. a unanimous meeting of 4 or more DMB members can make a decision that the others can't overturn
<ScottK> For Kubuntu Dev, the rule is "majority of those present and at least 3".
<stgraber> Laney: right
<Laney> OK, fine, so I don't think there is any actual disagreement
<ScottK> So, bottom line then is it's up to cyphermox.
<Laney> cyphermox: want any context?
<micahg_mobile> Hrm, I thought we had 3 abstentions
<cyphermox> I was just looking at that
<cyphermox> so far I'm +0, looking to see if there's something to change my mind either way
<Laney> You can ask questions
<Laney> if you want
<ScottK> I'd propose two actions:
<ScottK> 1. Laney get with CC to get the voting rules documented.
<cyphermox> Laney: true
<ScottK> 2.  cyphermox review Noskaj application and history and determine his vote.
<ScottK> We ought to be able to do both those in two weeks, right?
<Laney> Fine. I'll just send the email right now
<cyphermox> Noskcaj: what specific actions did you take on the evolution-ews package I see in mitya57's list of experiences working together?
<cyphermox> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Probably not entirely fair just to spring this on him without warning.
<Laney> email is fine
<ScottK> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-March/000821.html
<ScottK> #action Laney get with CC to get the voting rules documented.
<meetingology> ACTION: Laney get with CC to get the voting rules documented.
<Laney> Give me two minutes and you can #link it
<ScottK> #action cyphermox review Noskcaj application and history and determine his vote.
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox review Noskcaj application and history and determine his vote.
<ScottK> Anything else while we wait for Laney's link?
 * Laney better mail to devel-permissions instead of d-m-b@ so there is a public link.
<Laney> ScottK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-March/000828.html
<ScottK> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2015-March/000828.html
<ScottK> Next chair
<ScottK> micahg_mobile: You're next on the list.
<Laney> Also if this application fails the people who voted negatively should be ready with feedback
<micahg_mobile> Ok
<ScottK> AOB
<ScottK> I guess none then.
<ScottK> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 16 15:38:43 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-16-15.08.moin.txt
<Laney> thanks ScottK
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie waves
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 16 16:32:09 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for xen for precise to utopic
<tyhicks> Christian Hertel provided a debdiff for tntnet for precise (LP: #1430750)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1430750 in tntnet (Ubuntu) "Insecure Default Config leads to security issue" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430750
<tyhicks> Your contributions are very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<tyhicks> lets come back to him
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: go ahead
<jdstrand> oh sorry
<jdstrand> I can go now or after mdeslaur
<tyhicks> jdstrand: go ahead :)
<jdstrand> ok
<jdstrand> so, the performance reviews are all done
<jdstrand> I've been discussing snappy signatures and hashes with mvo, tyhicks and mdeslaur. we are getting real close to agreement. after which, I'll write it up
<jdstrand> I will be working on snappy hw access this week, and snappy frameworks
<jdstrand> all this snappy work will lead into more review tools work as well as click-apparmor
<jdstrand> I'm also working on an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I just published some USNs
<mdeslaur> I plan on working on php5, libav, and an embargoed issue this week
<mdeslaur> that's about it for me, sbeattie?
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week.
<sbeattie> I'm currently refreshing my gcc-5 pie package against newer versions in the toolchain-r ppa
<sbeattie> after that, will continue testing there.
<sbeattie> I need to do some apparmor patch review
<sbeattie> oh I didn't get to the dhclient not getting its profile applied under snappy, will poke more at that this week
<sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm on the community role this week
<tyhicks> today, I'll be working on testing and fixing any bugs found in the libapparmor aa_features string parsing routines
<tyhicks> jjohansen thinks he spotted a bug (he's probably right) and that patch really needs tests
<tyhicks> after that, I think we're really close to landing the libapparmor parser cache API in upstream AppArmor
<tyhicks> I'll also be working on AppArmor kernel keyring mediation for user data encryption
<tyhicks> and, if I have time, I'll finish up the patches to fix bug #1430532 and send them out for review
<ubottu> bug 1430532 in AppArmor "libapparmor needs a public function to break a context into a label and mode" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430532
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am on apparmor again this week. I need to finish up with my patches for Bug 1431717, Bug 1430546. I need to follow up with the latest Bug fixes pushed to the kernel team and make sure all patches are on all the kernels they should be.
<jjohansen> I'm sure there will be some more to do around the libapparmor cache API, and once that lands I can push my series around dfa testing.
<jjohansen> And then its back to the upstreaming work.
<ubottu> bug 1431717 in AppArmor "audit qualifier does not become effective" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431717
<ubottu> bug 1430546 in linux (Ubuntu) "apparmor kernel BUG kills firefox" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430546
<tyhicks> jjohansen: there's an email to the lsm list that you should probably have a look at
<tyhicks> jjohansen: it is in the stacked lsm patch set thread
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yeah there are several emails to the list I need to reply too
<tyhicks> jjohansen: stephen smalley points out a potential layering issue in apparmor
<jjohansen> yep
<jjohansen> that is it for /me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week, and it's another short week for me
<sarnold> there are outstanding MIR requests and outstanding openstack testing and updates to work on, not sure which ones I'm going to work on this week, but both are large enough that it's unliekly either one will be completed
<sarnold> I'll talk with tyhicks afterwards to figure out the priorities
<sarnold> chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> Hi :)
<chrisccoulson> This week, I'm still trying to remove Oxide's dependency on GL share groups. I have a prototype, but it doesn't work yet
<chrisccoulson> I've also got an embargoed issue to fix
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'm hoping for no surprises this week :)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: were you able to get to all the pending merge request reviews last week?
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: it's been at least 24 hours without a flash update, so perhaps you'll get one of those :)
<tyhicks> heh
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, not all. But the most important ones are done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: good! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/oftc-hybrid.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xlhtml.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.9-powerpc-cross.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/feh.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-rply.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chriscoulson: thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 16 16:58:29 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-16-16.32.moin.txt
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-17
<arosales> o/
<matsubara> o/
<coreycb> o/
<hallyn_> Morning all
<hallyn_> #startmeeting Ubuntu Server Team Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 17 16:00:38 2015 UTC.  The chair is hallyn_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic:
<beisner> o/
<hallyn_> #topoic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> bah
<hallyn_> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn_> Happily there are none
<hallyn_> #topic V Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: V Development
<hallyn_> Hm, the meeting page used to include the two relevant links,
<hallyn_> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<hallyn_> So documentationstring freeze is coming up,
<hallyn_> (along of course with final beta freeze)
<hallyn_> might be good to have a discussion about what docs we want to update.  I forget - does the Server Guide fall under documentation freeze?
<rbasak> I believe it does.
<hallyn_> might be good to have everyone take a look and at least come up with a list of areas needing update for next week
<hallyn_> i'm going to add an action for that in fact.  cause we haven't always been all *that* good at that...
<hallyn_> #action everyone look at server guide and look for areas which need updating
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone look at server guide and look for areas which need updating
<hallyn_> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-v-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> There may be some upstart -> systemd documentation fixes necessary
<hallyn_> in a specific area or all around?
<hallyn_> not sure i know enough about them but ill take a lookat those :)
<hallyn_> s olooking at the bugs, bug 1427406 is critical but unassigned
<ubottu> bug 1427406 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Vivid) "data corruption on arm64" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427406
<hallyn_> dannf: are you stil working on that one?
<dannf> hallyn_: not actively, no. we need to sync up with your team on that one (in a meeting right now though)
<hallyn_> ok, thanks
<hallyn_> #action hallyn to talk with dannf about bug 1427406
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn to talk with dannf about bug 1427406
<ubottu> bug 1427406 in mysql-5.6 (Ubuntu Vivid) "data corruption on arm64" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427406
<hallyn_> there are three more unassigned high prio bugs,
<hallyn_> bugs 1427275, 1432715, and 1409639
<ubottu> bug 1427275 in landscape-client (Ubuntu Vivid) "clean cloud images of python2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427275
<ubottu> bug 1432715 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu Vivid) "tomcat7 ftbfs in vivd (test failures)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432715
<hallyn_> is anyone handling those?
<hallyn_> high ubottu, what about bug 1409639
<ubottu> bug 1409639 in juju-core (Ubuntu Vivid) "juju needs to support systemd for >= vivid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409639
<rbasak> juju systemd isn't expected to make any progress in the archive until very late this cycle (after 1.23 is out)
<hallyn_> kinda what i expected,
<hallyn_> looks like 1427275 should be fixed upstream,
<hallyn_> bug 1432715 is unattended
<ubottu> bug 1432715 in tomcat7 (Ubuntu Vivid) "tomcat7 ftbfs in vivd (test failures)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432715
<hallyn_> zul's out all week i think, so i guess i'll aim to take a look - unless someone else wants to?
<hallyn_> #action hallyn to look at bug 1432715
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn to look at bug 1432715
<hallyn_> alrighty, moving on,
<hallyn_> #tpoic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<hallyn_> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<hallyn_> (bad kbd angle)
<hallyn_> caribou is not around,
<hallyn_> so moving on,
<hallyn_> Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (?)
<hallyn_> beisner: ^ \o
<matsubara> That would be me
<hallyn_> oh right
<hallyn_> #action hallyn to update QA Team section assignee to matsubara
<meetingology> ACTION: hallyn to update QA Team section assignee to matsubara
<matsubara> server smoke tests are failing
<matsubara> due to a unmet dependency installing libpam-systemd
<matsubara> here's an example of the failure http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/vivid-server-i386-smoke-default/140/
<matsubara> libpam-systemd : Depends: systemd (= 219-4ubuntu4) but 219-4ubuntu5 is to be installed
<hallyn_> so this is a bug in libpam-systemd packaging?
<hallyn_> oh,
<matsubara> I couldn't find a bug reported about that and I'm not sure if this is a systemd error or libpam-systemd error
<hallyn_> will libpam-systemd is packaged in systemd
<hallyn_> so this probably just goes to #ubuntu-devel.  do you mind bringing it up there later today?
<matsubara> ok, I'll file a bug in systemd and ask pitti about it
<hallyn_> thanks!
<matsubara> np. that's all from me hallyn_
<hallyn_> #action matsubara to file a bug for libpam-systemd's dependency problem
<meetingology> ACTION: matsubara to file a bug for libpam-systemd's dependency problem
<rbasak> Note that pitti is on holiday right now
<hallyn_> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Looking at the nested_kvm issue (bug 1431473). Nothing final, yet but looks to be a combination of running Precise(3.2) on the host and Utopic(3.16) or later on L1. Having the host at Trusty(3.13) fixes this. So I just need to find out what fails exactly. Though it is likely not the cpuid flags but VMX support MSR(s) which are inconsistent.
<ubottu> bug 1431473 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "kvm_intel (nested) module will not load [Input/output error]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431473
<matsubara> rbasak, ok. I'll follow through in the bug tracker
<hallyn_> interesting.  thanks for tracking that down.  that one scared me
<hallyn_> any questions for smb?
<hallyn_> smb: anything more to bring up?
<smb> nope nothing that I can think of
<hallyn_> thanks
<hallyn_> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn_> Anything coming up?
 * hallyn_ realizes he's heard nothing about ODS talk acceptances...
<hallyn_> moving on,
<hallyn_> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<hallyn_> no topics?
<hallyn_> then we can wrap up,
<hallyn_> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<hallyn_> next meeting will be next tuesday March 24 at 16:00 utc
<hallyn_> with the honorable rbasak presiding
<hallyn_> thanks everyone
<hallyn_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 16:18:56 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-17-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks hallyn
<matsubara> thanks hallyn_
<rbasak> Thanks!
<beisner> thanks, hallyn
<arosales> thanks hallyn
<ppisati> o/
<smb> ppisati, too early
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 17 17:00:13 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Vivid
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> \o/
<sforshee> o/
<cking> o/
<apw> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<kamal> o/
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Vivid Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Vivid kernel remains based on v3.19.1 and we uploaded a 3.19.0-9.9
<ogasawara> kernel last week.  We are approaching kernel freeze for Vivid.  It is
<ogasawara> ~4wks away on Thurs Apr 9.  If you have any patches which need to land for 15.04's release, please make sure to submit those asap.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Mar 26 - Final Beta (~1 week away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 09 - Kernel Freeze (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Apr 23 - 15.04 Release (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Utopic/Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<jsalisbury> Update will be added to meeting minutes.
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *   Lucid - None (no update)
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Verification and Testing
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Verification and Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current cycle: 27-Feb through 21-Mar
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          27-Feb   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 01-Mar - 07-Mar   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 08-Mar - 21-Mar   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 17:06:37 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-17-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-19
 * slangasek waves
<robru> o/
 * stgraber waves
 * cyphermox waves
<caribou> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 19 15:02:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> bdmurray cyphermox doko sil2100 jodh mvo stgraber barry slangasek infinity caribou robru
<slangasek> bdmurray: tag
<bdmurray> investigation into daisy bug LP: #1431796 (only one thread in ThreadStacktace)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1431796 in Errors "Only one thread shown in Thread Stacktrace" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431796
<bdmurray> fixed errors bug LP: #1431796 (not displaying threadstacktrace)
<bdmurray> resolved issues with whoopsie-preferences upstream branch (out of date and changes not uploaded to vivid)
<bdmurray> tested gunicorn change of worker_class from gevent to sync to resolve too many interim responses issue
<bdmurray> updated daisy-charm with worker_class change for gunicorn
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have daisy charm updated so we can test worker_class change in staging
<bdmurray> tested / worked with webops regarding gunicorn worker_class changes (seems good)
<bdmurray> fixed an issue with the way daisy returned EoL error message and worker_class = sync
<bdmurray> searched for strange stacktrace endings
<bdmurray> tested DayBucketProposedCounts for recording crashes from -proposed users
<bdmurray> updated oops-repository package in daisy-pluckers PPA (DayBucketsProposedCount)
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding updating oops-repository and daisy on staging
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal regarding component-mismatches svg (show team name)
<bdmurray> worked on component-mismatch improvements (showing uploader)
<bdmurray> uploaded apport SRU to enable automatic crash reporting from Trusty (LP: #1431058)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1431058 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "Stable Release Update to provide possiblity of automatically reporting crashes" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431058
<bdmurray> investigation into apport bug LP: #1300235 (chromium-browser crashes reported about init)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1300235 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "init (chromium-browser) crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300235
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal fixing apport part of bug LP: #1300235
<bdmurray> verified that bug LP: #1419061 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1419061 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) "On Ubuntu Kylin detect all packages as not genuine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419061
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox>  * reviewing/testing installer multipath patches in bug 1430074
<cyphermox>  * upload partman-base, partman-multipath, grub-installer with multipath fixes
<cyphermox>  * testing and review for post-boot multipath delays and issues:
<ubottu> bug 1430074 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "fix handling of multipathed disks" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430074
<cyphermox>    - Multipath devices take long to initialize during initramfs (bug 1431650)
<cyphermox>    - system drops to initramfs after install on multipath disk (bug 1429327)
<cyphermox>    - Ship the default /etc/multipath.conf on multipath-tools-boot (bug 1432062)
<ubottu> bug 1431650 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Multipath devices take long to initialize during initramfs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431650
<ubottu> bug 1429327 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: system drops to initramfs after install on multipath disk" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429327
<ubottu> bug 1432062 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Ship the default /etc/multipath.conf on multipath-tools-boot (for user_friendly_names)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432062
<cyphermox> ^ I got some good results last night with changes to the multipath-tools udev rules
<cyphermox>  * reviewed urfkill pull request to fix new issues with flight mode and WWAN.
<cyphermox>  * silo for urfkill
<cyphermox>  * patch for NM connection selection bug, wrong context for IMSI (bug 1431471)
<ubottu> bug 1431471 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager uses ofono GPRS contexts for wrong SIM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431471
<cyphermox> (done)
<doko> meh, still difference in summer time ... (I'll go last, and will be forgotten ...)
<slangasek> hmm :)
<slangasek> sil2100 is off sick
<slangasek> jodh:
<jodh> * snappy
<jodh>   - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/logger
<jodh>     - Reworked after further review, including new tests.
<jodh>     - Created packaging branch for the juju "loggo" golang logger,
<jodh>       required for the snappy logger branch:
<jodh>       https://github.com/jamesodhunt/loggo.git
<jodh>   - Reworked lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/privileged-operations (also with new tests).
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Bug 1429756
<ubottu> bug 1429756 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "FTBFS: upstart test_job_process fails in majority of cases / Kernel returning unexpected EIO at end of file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429756
<jodh>     - Collaborated with apw.
<jodh>     - Lots of testing.
<jodh>     - Wrote a C program + test script that surfaces the timing issue without
<jodh>       upstart+libnih: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1429756/comments/13
<jodh>     - Tested on a 3.18, 3.19 and modified 3.19 kernels.
<jodh> àº§à»
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - Debug http errors on azure with smoser
<mvo> - Look into size tracking bug (#777565)
<mvo> - Merge debian/sid fixes for vivid and FFe (#1431877)
<mvo> - New 1.0.9.7ubuntu1 uplaod (matches the debian 7 version)
<mvo> - Trusty SRU for #1429041
<mvo> software-center:
<mvo> - debug/fix install issue with aftershot pro2 from the store
<mvo> - identify a bunch of similra incorrect meta-data for apps in the
<mvo>   store that prevents installing them and fix them
<mvo> snappy:
<mvo> - native build and unpack landed in snappy-go, major step in
<mvo>   reducing the external dependencies
<mvo> - lots of features, fixes, cleanup
<mvo> - package/upload golang-ar
<mvo> - discuss/implement new hashes support
<mvo> - look into oem snap dtb handling
<mvo> software-properties:
<mvo>   Help Brian with software-properties-gtk questions
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - trainguard duty
<mvo> - performance review
<mvo> (done)
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Released LXC 1.1.1 on Monday
<stgraber>    - Released LXD 0.4 on Tuesday
<stgraber>    - Various bugfixes and feature work on LXC and LXD
<stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
<stgraber>    - Now working on 0.5, due Tuesday (bugfix release)
<stgraber>    - Looked into a LXC security issue (related to Seccomp)
<stgraber>    - Still waiting on LXD-related FFes (archive is currently on barely usable LXD 0.1)
<stgraber>  - system-image
<stgraber>    - code reviews (some more to do this week too)
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - Booked travel to Austin sprint
<stgraber> (done)
<barry> qa sprint
<barry> (done)
<infinity> slangasek: ?
<barry> slangasek: back to you
<slangasek> was still reading scrollback ;)
<barry> and mine was so short! :)
<slangasek>  * snappy: working on the developer story, how to cross-build a snap
<slangasek>  * review season continues, look for 1:1 invites coming soon
<slangasek>  * spent a bit of time on proposed-migration stalls, fixing maas (bug #1433697) to unblock syslinux and removing some never-gonna-build packages that are broken in Debian unstable
<ubottu> bug 1433697 in MAAS "maas depends on syslinux-dev, removed upstream" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433697
<slangasek>  * worked with robru on debugging uci-engine bootstrap issues
<slangasek>  * sprint planning: we have a date and a location
<slangasek>  * discussions with IBM about multipath-related bugs for 15.04
<slangasek> (done)
<infinity> * Lots more glibc mangling, should be uploading today
<infinity> * Wrangle some transitions out of proposed
<infinity> * Work with didrocks (after a conversation with xnox) on restructuring the upstart package split
<infinity> * General AA and SRU things
<infinity> * Argue with Canonical VPN configs
<infinity> * Discussions with Colin/William about bugcontrol versus series nomination
<infinity> * Work on planning the vivid release sprint
<infinity> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>  - Investigating rsyslog memory leak on Trusty : running stress tests
<caribou>    * Noticed small leak (~27Mb) on trusty (got help from infinity)
<caribou>    * Running stress tests to reproduce (need to open bug for this one)
<caribou>  - Instance left in dying state : setting Havana test environment
<caribou> Continued work on backport of runlevel S kdump fix over trusty for testing
<xnox> infinity: note that smoser opened critical - that ADT testing fails as it tries to boot things with upstart, whilst systemd-sysv is installed and that fails.
<caribou> Preparation for CTS sprint
<caribou> sosreport juju plugin enhancement
<caribou> Need to book travel before CTS sprint
<xnox> infinity: marked as duplicate of the master bug.
<caribou> (done)
<robru> * CI Train
<robru>   - Implemented 'dirty silo' notification -- when one silo is published/merged, other silos containing conflicting packages are marked dirty so that people know not to QA them until they've been rebuilt
<robru>   - Rewrote migration job from scratch with 100% test coverage, bringing the overall total test coverage up from 85% to 90%
<robru>   - various tweaks and improvements in error reporting, logging, pylint cleanups
<robru>   - significantly improved the clarity of the error message for the case when you try to publish a silo that contains a package that hasn't been built yet.
<robru>   - cleaned up the code that generates package diffs (code used to call debdiff 3 different times 3 different ways, now it just calls it once and processes the output 3 different ways as necessary)
<robru> * lp:cupstream2distro-config
<robru>   - dropped some transitional flags that haven't been used in nearly a year, shrinking the size of the entire project by 1/6th
<robru> * CI Engine
<robru>   - continuing to bumble through deployment issues, not much luck.
<robru> (done)
<infinity> xnox: You have bug numbers?  I was basing this work on our conversation, not on actual reported bugs.
<xnox> infinity: yes, we have bugs =) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1422681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1422681 in upstart (Ubuntu) "split out upstart-sysv" [Undecided,Triaged]
<infinity> xnox: Ta.
<xnox> infinity: note that bug report has irc log pastes in it ;-)
<infinity> xnox: Even better.
<xnox> infinity: well, paraphrased.
<xnox> smoser: links to _actual_ logs in the duplicate bug.
<slangasek> robru: dirty silo notifications> great!  btw, I guess there's still nothing that prevents two conflicting silos being submitted to QA in parallel, even though only one of these will be published?
<slangasek> robru: which flags were transitional?
<slangasek> caribou: your turn
<caribou> slangasek: done already
<doko> before somebody forgets me ...
<doko> - finally updated openjdk-8
<doko> - look at firefox ftbfs on arm64, reduce test case, file issue
<doko> - look at linux ftbfs on ppc64el, gcc dropping -m32 (but why do we need 32bit support)
<doko> - test ceph bugfix on armhf
<doko> - fix auto pkg test for kde packages
<doko> - migrations, vivid ftbfs fixes, ...
<doko> - more GCC 5 work
<slangasek> caribou: oh yes, failing to read my list (or scrollback) sorry
<robru> slangasek: indeed, nothing is in place to stop two built silos from going to QA in parallel; QA will have to just know not to QA the same package in two different silos. but once one gets published the other is immediately marked dirty
<caribou> slangasek: np
<robru> slangasek: and the transitional flags were 'daily_release: False' and 'use_stack_ppa: False', ancient stuff from way way back when ci train was first brought online.
<slangasek> robru: interesting, thanks
<robru> slangasek: note that lp:cupstream2distro-config is different (and currently unrelated to) lp:cupstream2distro
<slangasek> oh, ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<robru> slangasek: they were related pre-train but they've diverged since the train went online.
<slangasek> anyone with spare cycles could put them to use on helping to get the archive in shape for 15.04: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20150202-vivid.html http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<slangasek> a lot of packages stuck in -proposed right now
<infinity> Looking forward to the relaxation of build failure hunting once I'm done with other tasks.
<slangasek> :)
<barry> indeed :)
<slangasek> ok, sounds like that's it then
<slangasek> get your travel requests in for the sprint! :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 19 15:22:17 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-19-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks all
<jodh> thanks!
<caribou> thanks slangasek
<mvo> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<doko> slangasek, everytime I ask for help with MIR's and bugs, I get the answer that nobody has time. it's a bit frustrating
<bdmurray> oh, I was too slow
<bdmurray> mvo: any ideas about bug 1432172?
<ubottu> bug 1432172 in glibc (Ubuntu) "package libc-bin 2.19-15ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432172
<slangasek> bdmurray: fwiw there was discussion about dpkg's new behavior wrt triggers on the Debian side, I believe for jessie the dpkg behavior has been rolled back
<slangasek> you should be able to find references to this on debian-devel
<bdmurray> slangasek: ah, okay
<mvo> bdmurray: let me check
<mvo> bdmurray: and yes, what slangasek said, it sounds a lot like the trigger change
<Riddell> CC meeting?
<Riddell> elfy et al?
<dholbach> hiya
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> just gathering other members
<dholbach> mhall119, elfy, cprofitt, czajkowski: around?
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 19 17:01:46 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<czajkowski> aloha
<cprofitt> hello all
<dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Kubuntu Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Kubuntu Council
<dholbach> #chair pleia2 czajkowski cprofitt
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> hey Riddell - how are you doing? did you bring anyone else from the Kubuntu Council? :)
<Riddell> Mamarok is here from kubuntu council and ahoneybun a useful kubuntu person is here
<dholbach> brilliant
<Riddell> and here's sgclark another useful kubuntu person
<dholbach> how are thing going? how are the preparations for 15.04 going?
<Riddell> 15.04 is going to rock
<sgclark> hi all
<Riddell> it's out 10th anniversary and the headlines are going wild
<pleia2> glad to hear it :)
<pleia2> welcome sgclark
<Riddell> I think we may crash twitter when we launch
<dholbach> :-))
<pleia2> Riddell: hehe
<Riddell> first distro with Plasma 5, it's going to be the year of the linux desktop at last
<dholbach> is the kubuntu testing squad happy with the the new release too? :)
<Riddell> they seem to be, some issues with systemd but surisingly few given the change
<dholbach> yeah... I was quite surprised too how smooth the transition went
<dholbach> somebody mentioned daily image builds being broken for a day or something
<Riddell> they're broken on virtualbox
<Riddell> which is an issue in X that I see in ubuntu unity too
 * mhall119 is here now
<dholbach> #chair mhall119
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach mhall119 pleia2
<dholbach> Riddell, do you know if a bug is open for it?
<mhall119> Riddell: congrats on 10 years of Kubuntu, btw, that's an amazing milesgtone
<Riddell> we have bug 1432343, was going to ask pitti if there was another one
<ubottu> bug 1432343 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "Vivid Daily 20150315: Live cd does not boot in VirtualBox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432343
<dholbach> Riddell, you could try to ping LocutusOfBorg1 about it - he's maintaining virtualbox in debian and ubuntu (if anything needs to be done there)...
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> looks like you're well covered there :)
<mhall119> Riddell: how have things gone coordinating Qt releases in 15.04 between KDE's and Unity's needs?
<Riddell> mhall119: that seems to have gone well, Mirv and mitya57 are on #k-d and we chat about updates, they're pleasingly responsive
<mhall119> great
<mhall119> how about Wayland integration, is Plasma 5 going to use it?
<Riddell> it will but probably not for the next LTS
<dholbach> do you have a special build for it or something like that for testers or curious folks?
<Riddell> no it's still in development upstream, nothing very usable yet
<Riddell> but we do have kci
<Riddell> kubuntu continuous integration
<Riddell> that builds packages every day
<Riddell> and weekly ISOs from it
<dholbach> oh nice... what happens in kci?
<Riddell> so Plasma and other KDE developers can always test the latest and greatest
<dholbach> what do you build and/or test there?
<shadeslayer> dholbach: more or less all of Plasma/ KF5 and some apps
<shadeslayer> dholbach: all of these projects are built http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/ci-tooling.git/tree/data/projects.json
<shadeslayer> ( except the custom_ci bits )
<Riddell> we are also sharing out packaging repositories with Debian now
<dholbach> does any gatekeeping happening there as well?
<Riddell> so much less duplicate work all around
<dholbach> like "build it, run tests, if they fail, your change won't get in"?
<Riddell> gatekeeping?
<shadeslayer> dholbach: some what, sitter is working on keeping a eye and fixes things as they break
<dholbach> ok, so Sitter is the gatekeeper, I see :)
<shadeslayer> I still need to write some code to run autotests separately ( only in build tests are run at the moment )
<shadeslayer> more or less :P
<dholbach> how do you feel Kubuntu is doing community wise? did you approve some new members recently?
<shadeslayer> we are in #kubuntu-ci if you want to look at colored jenkins output :P
<dholbach> shadeslayer, I'm usually happy enough if I *don't* get mail or any notification of jenkins :-P
<shadeslayer> ;)
<Riddell> the community is doing ok, we had 1 new member this year and plenty of people hang around.  it's not as active as it used to be and is probably overly dependent on me
<dholbach> but yeah, I think it's absolutely fantastic that you're doing a lot in the CI world - it pays off so quickly
<shadeslayer> I don't think not having new people is a bad sign per se, I've had people IM me and send me messages on Forums saying that they love Kubuntu
<dholbach> Riddell, do you feel there are a lot of things which only you can do in the project?
<shadeslayer> so, the developer community is most certainly becoming a bit stale :(
<Riddell> oh sure the user community are lovely and not a day goes by when I don't get people excited about 15.04
<dholbach> shadeslayer, sure... the people who actually decide to get involved, read the docs and take the plunge are very much the tip of the iceberg of all *ubuntu lovers
<shadeslayer> *nod*
<Riddell> I don't think there's anything only I can do, it's just a question of hours
<mhall119> where do you think we can reach new potential Kubuntu developers? From the rest of the Ubuntu community, or from upstream KDE community?
<Riddell> kubuntu users probably
<shadeslayer> I agree
<mhall119> are there any initiatives to convert users into developers/contributors?
<Riddell> only that I grab people whenever they show interest and offer them tutorial and handholding
<mhall119> So the Ubuntu Online Summit is coming up soon, I know Kubuntu hasn't used it much for planning, but it might be a good time and place to host instructional sessions for this purpose
<mhall119> kind of a "How to become a Kubuntu Developer"
<Riddell> possibly, I always find UOS hard to motivate myself by, we have real life meetings which work an aweful lot better
 * mhall119 is going to be looking for some Kubuntu members to be track leads again too
<sgclark> heh
<sgclark> I failed miserably at that
<mhall119> Riddell: understood, the Kubuntu sessions in the last two UOSes seemed very popular though
<mhall119> sgclark: I'm going to try and recruit you again, so I wouldn't say that :)
<dholbach> since it's after the release, you could probably do a feedback or Q&A round
<sgclark> lol
<Riddell> ah here's ovidiu-florin, he's working on a nice new website for us
<pleia2> cool
<ovidiu-florin> hello
<mhall119> hey ovidiu-florin
 * ovidiu-florin was hoping to stay unnoticed
<dholbach> that's brilliant - it's really nice to get to know the entire team :-))
<dholbach> mhall119, maybe we could invite the Kubuntu team to one of the next Community Q&A sessions?
<ovidiu-florin> what are we talking about?
<mhall119> +1
<dholbach> cool :)
<pleia2> ovidiu-florin: user community participation in kubuntu, among other things :)
<dholbach> ovidiu-florin, regarding the Q&A session or in general?
<shadeslayer> dholbach: that would be cool indeed
 * mhall119 just heard shadeslayer volunteer
<dholbach> I'd love to see a demo of what's new in kubuntu land
<shadeslayer> mhall119: I'm volunteering me and Riddell xD
<Mamarok> sorry, I had to finish some urgent work, but am reading now
 * mhall119 just heard Riddell voluntold
<dholbach> that might also be a good opportunity to recruit new kubuntu folks :)
<ovidiu-florin> dholbach: in general
<ovidiu-florin> dholbach: both actually
<dholbach> ovidiu-florin, this meeting is an opportunity for the Kubuntu Council and Community Council to catch up
<dholbach> ovidiu-florin, we do this once a cycle to see how things are going
<dholbach> the Q&A session mhall119 and I mentioned happens once a week on http://ubuntuonair.com/
<dholbach> usually we have lots of people from ubuntu social media channels who ask all kinds of questions
<dholbach> and it's nice to have guests there who can show off something
<dholbach> or answer questions in their area of expertise
<shadeslayer> I have to go for spanish class, hasta luego :)
<dholbach> shadeslayer, enjoy! :)
<Mamarok> :)
 * Mamarok wonders why he doesn't learn Catalan instead...
<dholbach> I'll drop Riddell and shadeslayer a mail about the Q&A and we can have a look at the calendar together
<dholbach> does anyone have any more questions?
 * Riddell does
<dholbach> shoot
<ovidiu-florin> with a 9 mm
<Riddell> http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy still says "Otherwise you... will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries." this is untrue and disrespectful to the copyright owners, who are Ubuntu's upstream communities
<Riddell> I have been hilighting this for over a year and the community council has done nothing about it. It is hurting Kubuntu development. The communitiy council needs to make a firm statement that this is untrue and that in the spirit of free software they welcome derivatives.
<mhall119> we certainly haven't done nothing
<mhall119> in fact, it's consumed quite a bit of our time and efforts over the same year
<czajkowski> Riddell: to be clear we've raised it to canonical legal
 * ovidiu-florin has a question as well
<Riddell> czajkowski: that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, time to just take a stand
<dholbach> Where do you see Kubuntu development hurt?
<mhall119> Riddell: can you go into detail about how it is hurting Kubuntu development?
<czajkowski> and from there it;s kinda hit a wall  we are talking to rickspencer in the coming weeks and will ask for it to be pushed again
<Riddell> dholbach: shadeslayer used to be working full time on Kubuntu, now he's not
<Riddell> czajkowski: best stop giving in to their stalling and just make a statement
<czajkowski> Riddell: it's not about taking a stand , it's about getting it corrected/ cleared up for all parties.
<dholbach> Riddell, I'm not sure I understand
<czajkowski> Riddell: that's not how the CC operates.
<dholbach> Riddell, is this an immediate effect of Ubuntu trademarks?
<Riddell> dholbach: is what?
<mhall119> shadeslayer: has the trademark/ip question caused you problems with your employment?
<czajkowski> Riddell: can you give us an example where this has stopped someone from contributing to Kubuntu.
<dholbach> Riddell, shadeslayer working fulltime on Kubuntu
<Riddell> shadeslayer has gone
<dholbach> I'm not quite sure I follow
<Mamarok> he just left for his Spanish lesson
<Riddell> czajkowski: I refer the honourable lady to the answer I gave some moments ago
<Riddell> dholbach: what don't you follow?
<mhall119> ok, we can follow up with him via email
<Riddell> why not just deal with the problem rather than the symptoms?
<Mamarok> why taking this to mail, can't this be cleared here? Riddell can exmplain
<mhall119> Riddell: the CC has limited ability to "just deal with the problem"
 * ogra_ always thought this stanza only refers to out of archive builds ... which kubuntu definitely doesnt fall under
<dholbach> Riddell, you said the policy hurts kubuntu development, then you mention Rohan not working on Kubuntu fulltime any more - I was just wondering if the two were connected
<Riddell> mhall119: make a public statement saying it is untrue and irrelevent
<mhall119> Mamarok: Riddell: is shadeslayer okay with you going into detail about his employment situation?
<Riddell> dholbach: yes they are
<dholbach> ok, I'm afraid I don't understand
<mhall119> Riddell: the CC is not qualified to make legal statements like that, and even if we were they would have no legal authority as we do not own the IP in question
<Riddell> mhall119: that's irrelevent.  canonical doesn't own the copyrights either. that's the whole point.
<Riddell> dholbach: what don't you understand?
<dholbach> the connections
<dholbach> the connection
<mhall119> Riddell: they are the ones making the claim, so again the CC doesn't have any standing to make claims one way or the other
<Riddell> dholbach: blue systems is worried that canonical will want to restrict derivates and so shadeslayer got moved to other tasks
<mhall119> Riddell: has Blue Systems contacted Canonical about this?
<Riddell> mhall119: yes it does, it is the ubuntu council, it can make a claim on ubuntu's behalf
<dholbach> where are derivatives restricted?
<elfy> sorry - was late getting away - hi Kubuntu people
<dholbach> we all live in the same archive
<dholbach> #chair elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2
<mhall119> IIRC, Mint was given a very favorable agreement to clear this up
<czajkowski> Riddell: the CC can't control what tasks shadeslayer is moved onto.
<Riddell> dholbach: 17:31 < Riddell> http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy still says "Otherwise you... will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries." this is untrue and  disrespectful to the copyright owners, who are Ubuntu's upstream communities
<Riddell> czajkowski: no but it can address the symptoms
<Riddell> mhall119: mint did not have to make an agreement at all
<dholbach> right, I read that the first time - I might need more detail to understand the connection between all of this
<czajkowski> Riddell: nobody outside of their own employment can deal with that tbh let alone the CC
<Riddell> dholbach: if canonical claims the packages in the archive are not infact free software and are restricted in use then people will not want to work with them
<Riddell> czajkowski: you could deal with the reasons for it
<Riddell> I'm astonished that the CC doesn't understand the basics of free software or how it can be harmed by claims that our software is not Free
<dholbach> they are free software, no doubt about that - IANAL, but all Canonical asks for is a conversation, if you intend to use the Ubuntu trademark commercially and ship Ubuntu in a modified sense
<pleia2> Riddell: you're being really unfair to us (and I think you know that)
<mhall119> Riddell: the CC has been dealing with is, and are continuing to do so. If you are okay with us doing what we feel is best for Ubuntu we will keep doing that. But it means you'll have to accept what we end us doing.
<dholbach> but as Kubuntu is a derivative and lives in the same archive.......... where's the problem?
<pleia2> we've worked for over a year on this, more than any other topic, but our influence over Canonical is limited
<czajkowski> Riddell: we have spent a lot of time on this and spent time raising this to the legal dept in canonical
<dholbach> Ubuntu is free software
<Laney> what if Blue Systems wants to ship a modified version of Kubuntu?
<Riddell> dholbach: kubuntu is not a derivative.  we do care about our derivatives and this harms them.
<Riddell> pleia2: so make a public statement that it is untrue
<Laney> or if $random_person does for that matter
<dholbach> Riddell, sorry, a flavour then
<Laney> this clause says that they have to recompile it all
<Riddell> czajkowski: so time to give up on the canonical legal dept, they have been stalling for a year, enough already
<Riddell> Laney: yes.  that is not true and it is dangerous.
<mhall119> Laney: or work within the archives as Kubuntudoes
<czajkowski> Riddell: you keep asking us to make a statement and we've already said we wont do that not until we hear from Canonical leagal on the matter
<Riddell> czajkowski: ok, see you in another year then.
<Riddell> mhall119: or not.  it's their choice.  that's free software.
<czajkowski> Riddell: you're really making this harder than needs be, you'd swear the CC sit around doing nothing
<czajkowski> we've put a lot of effort into this
<czajkowski> and yes it hasn't been easy
<Riddell> czajkowski: what has changed in the last year?
<czajkowski> nor have we gotten to the bottom of it yet
<czajkowski> but we are at least trying
<mhall119> Riddell: do you want the CC do handle this, or do you want the CC to just come to a specific conclusion that you've already come to?
<Mamarok> mayber it's the fact that we got no feedback on it so far, and the legal departement obviously doesn't want to do anything about it
<Riddell> mhall119: I want the CC to give up on canonical legal who are clearly not interested in fixing it and make a statement that it is untrue.
 * ovidiu-florin has a question as well, please don't forget
<mhall119> Riddell: and if the CC doesn't agree with that statement?
<cprofitt> Riddell: In order to make a public statement on a legal matter the CC would have to have a legal expert familiar with international law and the laws of several countries. I do not feel qualified to make any such public statement. I also would like to say that public thrashing about on the topic does not help the situation either.
<Riddell> cprofitt: that's just making excuses
<Mamarok> cprofitt: doesn't affect international law, it affects the Free Software licenses IMHO, but IANAL
<Riddell> mhall119: than make one you do agree on, but don't let someone claim Ubuntu is not Free software
<Riddell> anyway this is going nowhere again, let's move on
<mhall119> Mamarok: how that license is applied depends to a large extent on the law in the place it is tried
<cprofitt> Riddell: I do not see it as an excuse Riddell, but I would like to ask you to be more respectful of the people trying to sort through the issue.
<dholbach> This is a trademarks/IP issue and you know that Canonical has to be protective of the trademarks - that the success of Ubuntu and Canonical are connected. Kubuntu has lots of freedoms, like everyone else who works in the archive. When modified versions of *Ubuntu are still called *Ubuntu, that can be a problem. It'll be hard to get a "carte blanche" in this area.
<dholbach> Or are we talking about a different issue?
<Riddell> dholbach: it's a copyright issue
<cprofitt> We are trying to do what is right through the channels we have. Just because I have not gotten a timely response I will not make statements I can not make in good faith.
<Riddell> cprofitt: ok, see you next year.
<mhall119> Riddell: if Blue Systems or shadeslayer have been specifically impacted by this issue, I would encourage them to talk directly to the CC also so that we can have that additional information to take to Canonical legal
<elfy> I think that we should move on and see what ovidiu-florin has - we've also got the Membership Board
<dholbach> right
<cprofitt> elfy: I agree
 * ovidiu-florin is affraid to ask
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: don't be :)
<ovidiu-florin> can I ask here/now about the Ubuntu community fund?
<cprofitt> Riddell: Thanks for your understanding and patience.
<dholbach> ovidiu-florin, what's your question?
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: you can, but we are scheduling a meeting to get more information from Canonical about it, so we may not be able to answer everything today
<elfy> ovidiu-florin: we're actually looking into that currently - we have a meeting later
<ovidiu-florin> I'm not asking about aproval for my request
<ovidiu-florin> I want to ask abouot an issue that I understand from Riddell that there's a topic somewhere about this
<dholbach> can you be more specific?
 * ovidiu-florin is typing
<ovidiu-florin> Why can't we apply for funds for expences that we already had? For the many cases when we can't forsee what expenses we will have?
<cprofitt> ovidiu-florin: there is a topic that Riddell has raised. I am not sure we can call it an issue yet, but there may be one. We are researching that and discussing with the Canonical Community team.
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: so that's more of a question for the Community Team, but I can answer it
<ovidiu-florin> You can't always predict the costs for a trip, or an event
<elfy> ovidiu-florin: that is the issue that we're currently sorting out - we'll not be able to do anything now
<dholbach> Just estimate.
<elfy> and Riddell knows that we're looking into it
<dholbach> we don't want people to be in a position where they just assume "oh, this'll be paid for"
<dholbach> and then end up having to pay because of misunderstandings or other issues
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: the primary reason is because we don't want people to be out of money if we don't approve. If somebody spends money, then asks tobe paid back, but the use wasn't a valid use, we'll have to tell them know and now they are personally hurt (financially) by it
<dholbach> it'll also help planning and budgeting
<ovidiu-florin> For example, I can make a request for the travel expenses, but bu the time they get acecpted, The price of the plane ticket may have doubled.
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: most of the time an estimate on your trip's cost is all we need
<dholbach> we've gotten much much better at responding quickly
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: and we can (and do) adjust what is paid when things like ticket prices change
<dholbach> ok... shall we move on and have a chat with the Membership Board?
<ovidiu-florin> so far I've always payed for the plane ticket myself well in advance of the event, and apply for reinbursment the same day,
<ovidiu-florin> this way avoiding to make big expences
<ovidiu-florin> in the ~ 2 weeks it takes to get aproval the ticket may grow another 100â¬
<ovidiu-florin> depends on the company and the destination
<ovidiu-florin> and the timeframe
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: if you apply first with a rough estimate, we can at least approve it and then either pay you before you purchase, or hold off on paying you until after, we just would like to be able to say "yes this is a valid use of this money" or "No, this isn't a valid use of this money" before people commit to it
<ovidiu-florin> IMO there are many cases when we can show the Bill, and from previous fundings, to asume they are ok
<dholbach> if we can't book flights for events well in advance, I think that's just what has to happen here :/
<czajkowski> mhall119: you did say it's like a 10 day 2 week turn around or less rught ?
<czajkowski> you meet every week and it's on the topic
<mhall119> czajkowski: typically, but not always
<cprofitt> I think we are a bit in the weeds on this particular issue. We are looking in to the specifics to make sure there is both more transparency and that it is easier for community members to make use of the funds. We have to ensure the program is also manageable from Canonical's side as well.
<mhall119> ovidiu-florin: if you said "the ticket is going to be between 1000 and 1500 euro", we can work with that
<cprofitt> It might be best to move on to the other scheduled topic though.
<mhall119> right, ovidiu-florin you can join #ubuntu-community-team or email us directly if you want
<Riddell> one more question: There seems to be no community mailing list for Ubuntu to discuss community issues.  Can we make one?
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-community-team
<mhall119> ^^
<Riddell> dholbach: is everyone welcome and encouraged to subscribe to that?
<dholbach> ?
<popey> announced on ubuntu-devel 6 months ago. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-September/001110.html
<pleia2> of course
<dholbach> of course
<popey> -announce
<Riddell> ah hah
<Riddell> lovely
<dholbach> when did Ubuntu ever have mailing lists that didn't invite people?
<czajkowski> right moving on
<dholbach> ....
<czajkowski> as we're really out of time
<czajkowski> membership board...
<dholbach> yes, czajkowski: thanks
<PabloRubianes> Im here
<PabloRubianes> :)
<czajkowski> #topic Membership board catch up
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Membership board catch up
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: aloha :D
<PabloRubianes> Hello CC
<elfy> hi PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: hello
<dholbach> hey PabloRubianes
<dholbach> how are things?
<ahoneybun> hey PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> I think that some are fine
<PabloRubianes> we had no much of problems
<PabloRubianes> but
<dholbach> how is the Membership board? did we get a couple more nominations?
<PabloRubianes> we are having some issues to get people to the nominations
<dholbach> ok
<PabloRubianes> pleia2: helped us with that
<dholbach> can we all take an action to each think of somebody who could nominate themselves
<dholbach> and then twist their arms to actually nominate themselves? :)
 * mhall119 goes to poke jcastro about it again
<czajkowski> mhall119: poke prod bribe you know the usual wiht jcastro :)
<mhall119> I'll just promise him a charm for something
<elfy> PabloRubianes: how many do you think are still needed? or perhaps how many do you have?
<mhall119> 14:00 < jcastro> I will do that now
<mhall119> \o/
<PabloRubianes> elfy I have to check as I believe many of us (not me) are expiring
<pleia2> I'd also like to encourage the whole CC to reach out to people they think are potential good candidates :)
<elfy> PabloRubianes: 7 expire
<pleia2> speaking from experience, it means a lot when a sitting board/council member asks someone if they'd be willing to participate in the board
<PabloRubianes> we have 6 nominies
<czajkowski> pleia2: sure
<elfy> PabloRubianes: excluding jcastro ?
<PabloRubianes> yeap
<PabloRubianes> on the mailing list we have 6
<elfy> ok
 * mhall119 can confirm pleia2's statement, that's why I'm here :)
<elfy> funnily enough ...
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: is there anything else we can do to help ?
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: I think we are OK, maybe less people came to get the membership
<elfy> yea - someone mentioned that to me
<PabloRubianes> comparing to a few years ago
<pleia2> yeah, that's been a trend we've been noticing for a couple years
<czajkowski> PabloRubianes: I think people don't think they can go for it
<elfy> not sure what can be done about it
<PabloRubianes> I think community as a whole is way less activ
<dholbach> in the last time we pinged a couple of folks who applied for community funds
<czajkowski> I've chatted to a few folks who are very helpful on irc on ubuntu-uk none thought they could ge tit
<PabloRubianes> active*
<czajkowski> yet spend their day on irc helping people
<dholbach> because we felt "they've been around for ages, they should apply" :)
<pleia2> based on announcements from meetings, it doesn't seem to be getting considerably worse (based on 2 years ago, definitely worse than 5 years ago)
<czajkowski> people need to be encouraged
<czajkowski> I'd ask eveyrone to talk to people in their community, irc, forums and talk to them about memberhsip
<czajkowski> what it entails
<czajkowski> offer to help with the wiki
<czajkowski> leave a testimonial etc
<czajkowski> so they know they can do it if encouraged
<sgclark> we have been pushing for memberships in our Loco
<PabloRubianes> czajkowski: I think that before that we need to get new people to the community
<dholbach> sgclark, nice one
<dholbach> locos are usually good for that, because you can remind folks everytime you meet up :)
 * mhall119 has been pleased to see many of our new app developer community seeking and gaining membership
<PabloRubianes> i think that is the issue here, not much new people
<sgclark> yep
 * czajkowski pokes popey go poke the ubuntu-uk team :)
<PabloRubianes> mhall119: I recall some of them
<popey> wat?
<dholbach> we're chatting in #ubuntu-locoteams about it too now
<dholbach> ok... so we should probably chat tomorrow or some other time again and figure out together who else should be nominated :)
<czajkowski> ok
<ahoneybun> dholbach: nominated?
 * mhall119 proposes a small Perl script that randomly selects Ubuntu members and places them on boards without their consent
<czajkowski> right ok anything else from membership board?
<dholbach> ahoneybun, should nominate themselves :)
<ahoneybun> dholbach: for what?
<sgclark> lol mhall119
 * ahoneybun was scared to asked
<dholbach> ahoneybun, I was looking for a word like "voluntold" :)
<ahoneybun> XD
<dholbach> ahoneybun, oh sorry... we're talking about the Ubuntu Membership Board
<ahoneybun> oh ok cool
<mhall119> ahoneybun: you should apply for the Membership board
<dholbach> ahoneybun, some members are having their end of term quite soon
<dholbach> so we're looking for nominations
 * genii gets a random email notifying him he's now on an Ubuntu board
 * genii glares at mhall119
<PabloRubianes> ahoneybun: we are nice people, join us :P
<PabloRubianes> hehehe
<ahoneybun> mhall119: not sure if I'm up to par
 * mhall119 pretty sure you are
 * dholbach too :)
<ahoneybun> :)
<pleia2> ++
 * mhall119 is reminded to leave a testimonial for ahayzen's membership application
<ahoneybun> wow I got 3 votes already lol
<mhall119> lol
<dholbach> mhall119, ah yes, have the link again?
<sgclark> go ahoneybun!
<ahoneybun> 4
<mhall119> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ahayzen
<dholbach> thanks mhall119
<mhall119> It's been open in a tab for days now, a silent shameful reminder that I haven't done it yet
 * ahoneybun will leave a tesimonial as well
<dholbach> so... if you're interested, here's http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/03/15/ubuntu-membership-board-call-for-nominations-extended/
<dholbach> do we have anything else we need to talk about?
 * mhall119 has nothing
<PabloRubianes> Thanks for your time
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, anything else from the Membership boards?
<dholbach> PabloRubianes, anything we should look into?
<PabloRubianes> and help looking of people to join!
<dholbach> mhall119, we should talk about the membership board in the next Q&A
<dholbach> :)
<PabloRubianes> dholbach: no, is ok!
<popey> +1
 * dholbach hugs PabloRubianes
 * ahoneybun trys to apply for membershit
<ahoneybun> *ship
<ahoneybun> darn
<elfy> lol
<pleia2> thanks PabloRubianes
<PabloRubianes> HAHAH
<czajkowski> what a typo :)
<mhall119> lol, well now you've lost it
<elfy> ok - so if there's nothing else from Membership Board?
<czajkowski> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<czajkowski> anything else folks
<Laney> did you get my email about voting rules?
<dholbach> haha
<elfy> Laney: yes we did
<czajkowski> Laney: we did  Scott did reply
<czajkowski> he is the man of the voting
<dholbach> yes, but I didn't get around to replying yet
<Laney> not to me
<ahoneybun> I did it again when typing the email lol
<czajkowski> lemmie go and poke him
<pleia2> czajkowski: discussion has just be in the CC so far
<Laney> it's not a secret
 * mhall119 replied
<Laney> would appreciate devel-permissions being kept in the thread
<pleia2> Laney: indeed, I didn't realize we hadn't kept you in the loop, sorry
<Laney> someone should go bounce the emails
 * pleia2 just noticed now
<dholbach> all right... I've got to run now
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day - thanks everyone!
<mhall119> bye dholbach
<ahoneybun> 22:00 is...
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 19 18:18:41 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-19-17.01.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-03-20
<dholbach> good morning
<MooDoo> morning
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-21
 * genii investigates the coffeepot
<Kilos> hmm... did i hear coffee
<Kilos> enen cold is good
 * genii slides Kilos a fresh mug of freshly brewed Jamaican Blue Mountain
<Kilos> woooooo
<Kilos> ty genii my friend
<genii> :D
 * Kilos happy now
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 21 16:36:33 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hello
<jdstrand> so I'll start by saying that I am using the stacking patches and did quite a few apparmor-y things and it is solid
<jdstrand> \o/
<jdstrand> (for the kernel)
<tyhicks> woo :)
<tyhicks> it has been solid for me, as well
<jdstrand> today I'm working on getting the ubuntu-core-security policy and ubuntu-core-launcher adjusted for changes as a result of this kernel
 * mdeslaur sheds a tear that stacking has arrived
<jdstrand> the first is uploaded to xenial. the second I have a patch for but would like to review, test it, etc a bit more before asking for an MP
<jdstrand> when I do, I'll want either tyhicks or sarnold to review that branch
<jdstrand> I'll be working on landing that today
<tyhicks> since it is needed today, it is feeling like a sarnold review to me
<jdstrand> for the rest of the week I'd like to land a change in the snappy launcher for devpts newinstance. I have a patch for that and will request an MP soon
<jdstrand> tyhicks: note, I already told mvo to ping me if he is planning a kernel snap update
<jdstrand> that doesn't help desktop users though who are trying out snappy
<jdstrand> anyhoo, trying to get that landed
<jdstrand> after that, going to look at seccomp arg filtering in the launcher
<jdstrand> I also have a couple of embargoed issues
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm testing webkitgtk updates, which I'll probably publish this afternoon
<mdeslaur> I have some thing to look at in our uvt script regarding some apt changes
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll be going down the list as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> who's next?
<tyhicks> me
<tyhicks> I'm on bug triage this week
<tyhicks> I'll be pushing out git updates shortly
<tyhicks> I have some cve triage duties to finish up from last week
<tyhicks> I'll be preparing an apparmor userspace upload based on the apparmor 2.11 beta 1 release that was cut last week
<tyhicks> the ecryptfs kernel maintenance work has been piling up on me while working on stacking so I need to spend a couple days on it later this week
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> i'm on cve triage this week though thankfully spared from it for today to review ubuntu-core-launcher, then hopefully a return to the fwupd tool.. I haven't yet found any chain-of-trust that's equivalen to apt's security, and I feel like that's a blocking issue for the tool
<sarnold> it's a short week for me, I'm off friday
<sarnold> that's it, chrisccoulson ?
<chrisccoulson> I've got thunderbird, firefox and chromium updates to do (will hopefully get those out today)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I plan to do some work improving unit testing in Oxide this week
<chrisccoulson> I think it's a short week for me as well this week
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> (I fell behind on note taking)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sarnold: lets all three pitch in to help cover the community role this week
<tyhicks> I don't think we need to put a specific person on the hook
<mdeslaur> I'll take community, I don't mind
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: ok, hollar if you need help
<tyhicks> holler*
<sarnold> sounds good
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gamera.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-soappy.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-rsa.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libguac.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/wesnoth-1.10.html
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 21 16:56:57 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-21-16.36.moin.txt
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-22
<jgrimm> coreycb, howdy
<coreycb> jgrimm, howdy
<coreycb> jgrimm, I'll chair today
<jgrimm> thanks sir! :)
<coreycb> jgrimm, np!
<coreycb> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 22 16:00:46 2016 UTC.  The chair is coreycb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<jgrimm> o/
<teward> o/
<coreycb> hello everyone
<coreycb> let's get started
<cpaelzer> o/
<coreycb> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<coreycb> let's see..
<coreycb> jgrimm to update/clean up blueprint
<matsubara> o/
<jgrimm> coreycb, keep it for me
<coreycb> jgrimm, will do
<coreycb> that was it for action items from last time
<coreycb> #topic Xenial Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Xenial Development
<coreycb> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<coreycb> One month until final release of xenial!
<jgrimm> w00t
<jgrimm> wow, wiki is painfully slow loading
<cpaelzer> you even get internal server errors sometimes
<coreycb> xenial entered final beta freeze yesterday
<coreycb> the upload queue is frozen at this point until final freeze so uploads require release team review
<coreycb> final beta images are scheduled for release late Thurs
<coreycb> s/final freeze/final release/ above
<caribou> do we want to push for kickinz1's latest clamav merge through release review ?
<caribou> there is an FFE for that one I believe
<caribou> jgrimm: ^^
<jgrimm> caribou, what's in it?
<coreycb> caribou, maybe rbasak-laptop has input too
<caribou> jgrimm: dunno kickinz1 did the recent merge
<rbasak-laptop> I'm not sure I've seen it.
<rbasak-laptop> Does it involve feature changes?
<kickinz1> jgrimm, caribou not a lot, mainly debian cleanups
<caribou> llvm3.6 is one thing I noticed
<caribou> we may want to avoid dragging llvm3.5 deps into Xenial
<caribou> I'll take that one offline with the release team if you don't mind
<coreycb> caribou, sounds good, thanks
<coreycb> caribou, I'll put an action down and we can check status next week
<caribou> coreycb: was about to ask
<coreycb> alright then moving on
<coreycb> #subtopic Release Bugs
<coreycb> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> caribou, kickinz1:  wrt clamav. if just cleanups, probably not worth pushing .. everyone's busy and other stuff we really do want to get in
<coreycb> bug 1508874 is high importance and not triaged
<ubottu> bug 1508874 in nova-lxd (Ubuntu Xenial) "Please disable cpu resource configuration" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508874
<caribou> jgrimm: I'll ask Foundation about the llvm3.6 dependancy
<jgrimm> caribou, k
<coreycb> jamespage, can we mark 1508874 as triaged?  I assume so.
<kickinz1> caribou, jgrimm I agree, previous ubuntu clamav is alreay depending on llvm3.6
<jgrimm> k
<coreycb> that's all I see for bugs
<coreycb> moving on
<coreycb> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<caribou> I'm working on adding dep8 tests to makedumpfile
<caribou> also working on enabling it on s390x
<coreycb> caribou, sounds fun, good luck
<caribou> other than that, nothing worth mentioning
<coreycb> caribou, ok thanks
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<matsubara> hi there
<matsubara> Test case failure: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/1559507
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1559507 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Keyboard selection is missed" [High,Confirmed]
<matsubara> so, teward and philw brought to my attention that bug yesterday. I confirmed the issue today.
<matsubara> It's not possible to choose the keyboard layout
<matsubara> some further info from another reporter indicates a similar  problem is happening in the desktop iso
<matsubara> so I'll look into that issue and keep the OP and reporters updated in the bug report.
<jgrimm> thanks matsubara
<coreycb> matsubara, ok thanks.  should that be escalated to the desktop team?
<matsubara> coreycb, I'll debug it further today and then talk to someone in the desktop team
<coreycb> matsubara, sounds good
<matsubara> in any case, I'll look into what's the root cause
<coreycb> matsubara, thanks
<matsubara> also, I wrote a dep8 test for open-iscsi to avoid regressions like https://code.launchpad.net/bugs/1553017
<coreycb> any questions for matsubara ?
<matsubara> I'm sheparding it through review
<coreycb> matsubara, nice job, lots of dep8 test working going on!
<matsubara> but I expect it to be landed this week
<matsubara> and that's all from me
<matsubara> thanks coreycb
<coreycb> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<matsubara> s/to be landed/to land it/
<smb> Nothing about the kernel as far as I know. Maybe to mention here as well that fixing dhclient required updating bind9 so might be good to keep an eye on DNS as well in case there was collateral damage there (in Xenial that is). Anything to bring up / ask us?
<smb> 3..2..1..gone..
<jgrimm> thanks!
<jgrimm> coreycb, still there?
<jgrimm> heh.  well, let's keep going
<jgrimm> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
<jgrimm> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jgrimm> #topic Open Discussion
<jgrimm> is anyone left out there?
<teward> i'm still alive
 * rbasak-laptop is here
<teward> but it got missed in the Xenial Development part
<jgrimm> heh. thanks was feeling lonely
<cpaelzer> yep
<teward> after poking the Release team, nginx 1.9.12 finally landed
<rbasak-laptop> \o/
<teward> the FFe for the upload got stucked
<rbasak-laptop> Thanks teward
<teward> once infinity approved, i pushed the upload in, and it landed.  :)
<jgrimm> \o/
<rbasak-laptop> I really appreciate not having to worry about nginx
<teward> rbasak-laptop: you're welcome, next update is going to be equally annoying I think given Final Beta freeze, but I'll check with Release team before uploading anything more :)
<rbasak-laptop> Since I know you have a handle on it
<teward> rbasak-laptop: indeed, it's nice to have it always-watched by someone :)
<teward> rbasak-laptop: i'm happy to keep an eye on it :)
 * teward returns to silence and shadows
<jgrimm> thanks teward
<teward> jgrimm: you're welcome!
<jgrimm> anyone else?
<smb> Hm, maybe as open discussion topic... how do we convince the bot to end the meeting without coreycb ? ;)
<jgrimm> smb, indeed!
<cpaelzer> command should be command, no matter who issues it right?
<cpaelzer> oh really it cares about the "master" of the session - uh
<smb> No I think there is a affection to the person who starts a meeting
<jgrimm> claims to need chair
<jgrimm> we can try for kicks tho
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
<jgrimm> there ya go.
<cpaelzer> #chair jgrimm
<jgrimm> #endmeeting
<jgrimm> still nothing
<cpaelzer> #unchair coreycb
<cpaelzer> none of the chair commands work if not being a chair :-/
<cpaelzer> staring a new one might ovveride it?
<cpaelzer> starting
<jgrimm> #startmeeting
<meetingology> jgrimm: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, i think it timesout at somepoint
<jgrimm> or i hope at least
<cpaelzer> kernel Team is next in 25 minutes
<cpaelzer> smb: will notice then
<smb> cpaelzer, luckily we don't do those anymore
<cpaelzer> ok, then it should time out - 2nd is in almost two days
<jgrimm> Well, thanks everyone.. hopefully will resolve itself.
<stgraber> #endmeeting
<stgraber> hmm, it seems more confused than usual, that used to work as a way to stop an existing meeting
<jgrimm> heh. thanks for trying
<teward> stgraber: jgrimm: I did poke #ubuntu-irc - they seem to have nuked it
<coreycb> #endmeeting
<teward> stgraber: refer to -server logs where I pinged jgrimm
<coreycb> sorry about that
<coreycb> network outage
<jgrimm> coreycb, no worries. seems resolved now
<coreycb> ok good
<teward> coreycb: no problem, i pinged jgrimm to get the IRC logs anyways from scrollback
<teward> since the bot might not have kept the logs
 * teward shakes a finger at Mikaela
<coreycb> teward, thanks
<teward> yep
<Mikaela> pong
 * teward shakes his finger at Mikaela again
 * teward then goes back to poking his hypervisors to goet arm64 qemu-static schroots working again
<Mikaela> teward: actually it looks like your meetings are at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ even if there was no acknowledgement of them getting written
<teward> ah, cool
<teward> jgrimm: ^
<teward> coreycb: ^  (for meeting minutes generation)
<coreycb> teward, thanks
<teward> you're welcome.  thanks Mikaela
<Mikaela> you're welcome
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-23
<tsimonq2> wxl, pleia2, daker: You were around for the last LoCo Portal Planning meeting, you around now for the meeting that's supposed to start in two minutes? :)
<tsimonq2> #startmeeting LoCo Portal Planning Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar 23 21:00:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
<daker> yo
<tsimonq2> hey daker :)
<tsimonq2> so this is the second LoCo Portal planning meeting
<tsimonq2> a little bit smaller than the last but I have some topics in mind
<tsimonq2> even if it's just with daker, this will be valuable :)
<tsimonq2> okay
<tsimonq2> #topic Meeting Time
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<tsimonq2> I sent out the reminder for this meeting a bit late, and daylight savings time messed things up again
<tsimonq2> do we want to keep the time of 21 UTC or do we want to pull back to 20 UTC?
<tsimonq2> daker: thoughts?
<daker> 21 is good
<daker> well at least for me :)
<tsimonq2> alright, I'll give until 21:05 for people to object, then we can move on :)
<tsimonq2> so it seems that not many people are here
<superfly> o/
<superfly> I'm here :-)
<tsimonq2> oh hello superfly :)
<tsimonq2> daker: do you have the IS response nearby?
<tsimonq2> #topic IS Response about the server
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
<tsimonq2> daker: I'm hunting it down now if you can't find it
<daker> https://paste.ubuntu.com/15482854/
<tsimonq2> okay, cool, thanks daker :)
<daker> recap : IS recommendation is to stick with 1.3.1
<tsimonq2> So I've read this a few times, here's my opinion
<tsimonq2> I think that we test it and make sure it works on Trusty
<tsimonq2> upgrade to Trusty
<superfly> I agree with tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> then over the summer we test with Xenial and upgrade to Xenial
<daker> tsimonq2: you can't upgrade :)
<tsimonq2> well have IS do it
<tsimonq2> daker: wait we can't upgrade releases?
<superfly> also, you can install Django, et al in a virtualenv, and then you don't need to worry about the version in Ubuntu
<tsimonq2> ^ good point
<daker> tsimonq2: no, you can't just upgrade like that, the server was upgraded to precise in July 2015
<daker> precise :) 12.04
<tsimonq2> daker: then what do we have to work with in that regard?
<tsimonq2> Precise goes EOL next April, so we have about a year
<tsimonq2> I would much rather do it sooner than later
<tsimonq2> but we can only do what we can do :)
<daker> the recommendation is to stick with 1.3.x if we want to stay like that
<tsimonq2> daker: would it be possible to have IS upgrade the server to Trusty, or do we have to backport stuff?
<teward> tsimonq2: I would reread their email if I were you (apologies for appearing)
<daker> if we want to upgrade for Django for sure we need to write a juju charm
<teward> the email as it is currently states this: For the moment, while the site is hosted on a precise server, I would recommend sticking with 1.3 and addressing problems exposed by the Ubuntu upgrade.   ...
<teward> without further knowledge, I'd interpret that to be "We don't want to upgrade this right now"
<daker> teward: yes
<tsimonq2> ohhhhh I see
<tsimonq2> sorry :)
<teward> and again, apologies for popping in, but I thought it would help to have the translation/interpretation made available :)
<daker> because they have planning on what to upgrades and when
<teward> tsimonq2: so, the email suggests:
<teward> (1) sticking to precise
<tsimonq2> totally okay teward :)
<teward> (2) work with the existing system and resolve existing issues
<teward> (3) possible-long-term: backport either trusty or xenial Django in a PPA, confirm it works, migrate site to that, show it works, and IS may consider using the PPA in that case
<teward> which is in the last paragraph of the email
<teward> with the backport target being precise.
<tsimonq2> well I see that, but I haven't been able to easily reproduce the server locally
<tsimonq2> that's another problem I wanted to bring up
<tsimonq2> it's a bit tricky
<tsimonq2> knowing what cron jobs the server uses would be extremely useful
<daker> tsimonq2: why ? it should work, we have fixed the issues
<daker> tsimonq2: cronjob for the portal ?
<tsimonq2> daker: well either the docs aren't there or the docs aren't obvious enough to locally set up a server with all of the functionality
<tsimonq2> like, we can do the portal
<tsimonq2> just stuff like the blog requires extra docs that I don't know about
<daker> ok, i'll document that
<tsimonq2> I think getting the cron jubs used on the server would be useful to document how it's updated
<tsimonq2> *jobs
<tsimonq2> okay, thank you daker :)
<tsimonq2> daker: mind creating an actuion with meetingology?
<tsimonq2> *action
<tsimonq2> or I can do it :)
<daker> you can do it for me :)
<teward> fyi: #action
<tsimonq2> #action daker: better document local setup of the LoCo portal
<meetingology> ACTION: daker: better document local setup of the LoCo portal
<teward> now that'll show in the minutes
<tsimonq2> knowing this would really speed up development, IMHO
<tsimonq2> so I think that for now we can ensure it works, then when Xenial is released, imho, we should backport Django from Xenial
<tsimonq2> daker: would that be reasonable to do?
<daker> tsimonq2: i have absolutely no idea with packaging, and backporting means also handling security issues :)
<daker> my recommendation is to stick with 1.3 for now, deploy the cronjob fix
<daker> then start writing a juju charm
<daker> with the charm i guess that put the portal in a VM instead of the physical server
<tsimonq2> so do you think the backport will be good at any point?
<tsimonq2> or do you think that it will just give us more work?
<daker> tsimonq2: i don't think so it will be good, it's a complicated work + packaging + handling django sec issues
<tsimonq2> ahh okay
<tsimonq2> so the current point we are at is to stick with 1.3.x, write a Juju charm for it, then make sure it works and maintain it?
<superfly> Without sounding like I'm harping on about the virtualenv... I reckon that using a virtualenv will be of more benefit in the long run. With a virtualenv you can set the version of Django that you're using. You're also isolating your version from the operating system, so that you can do things at your own pace if necessary.
<tsimonq2> (just to make sure we are clear)
<superfly> (and I'm presuming that you can do that in a Juju Charm too)
<tsimonq2> superfly: but if we change Django versions, that's a whole other thing we need to support
<tsimonq2> to clarify, Juju charms are justr for easy configuration
<tsimonq2> *just
<tsimonq2> (afair)
<superfly> tsimonq2: but you can change django versions when *you* want to, not when the operating system dictates
<tsimonq2> I see
<tsimonq2> daker: thoughts?
<tsimonq2> teward: you have experience with packaging, feel free to interject at any point :)
<teward> sorry, was in the middle of something else for Server team
 * teward scrolls backwards
<daker> superfly: i don't think IS likes handling stuff with virtualenv
<daker> if it was possible they will say it
<tsimonq2> daker: could that question be asked?
<teward> tsimonq2: I would not be looking at the backport for now
<superfly> The biggest issue with backporting that you'll likely encounter is dependencies that you'd also have to backport
<daker> tsimonq2: i'll ask if you want, even if the answer is clear
<teward> Given that Precise EOLs in about a year, backporting will be a huge painful thing to do, as they suggested in the email may be a waste of time
<daker> tsimonq2: they don't install modules from pypi only archive ;)
<daker> teward: +1
<teward> for all the reasons I have the same headaches with nginx in the Server side, or znc on my own third-party, having to adapt to the much older software in Precise
<tsimonq2> ahh I see
<teward> (especially ZNC, as I have to pull in the ubuntu-toolchain test repo to make that build for Precise)
<tsimonq2> so should we continue to test to see if it works in Xenial and Trusty so when IS *does* upgrade, we have a plan?
<teward> tsimonq2: so, my recommendation would be to stick with 1.3, diagnose the cron issues, fix them as can be done, and not worry about the backport.
<teward> tsimonq2: correct.
<tsimonq2> okay, we need regression tests then, if not already implemented
<tsimonq2> that should be look at
<superfly> The age old tussel between devs and sysadmins...
<tsimonq2> I'll make an action
<tsimonq2> *looked
<teward> right, but note that IS alluded to this in their email - see lines 29 - 32 on your paste
<teward> "Regarding the future of loco.ubuntu.com, I would recommend selecting an Ubuntu LTS release to target, ideally xenial (but trusty would be fine), porting the site to its supplied version of Django (1.8 or 1.6, depending) and writing a Juju charm or charms to deploy the new site."
<teward> rather than the backporting item, which they *suggest* may be a way around it, but they also suggest "waste of time" given Precise EOL date
<tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2: Ensure regression tests are in place for the LoCo Portal
<meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2: Ensure regression tests are in place for the LoCo Portal
<superfly> So basically get it working on Django-<version in xenial>, I think
<teward> ^ that
<tsimonq2> !infor django xenial
<teward> tsimonq2: 1.8
<tsimonq2> !info django xenial
<ubottu> Package django does not exist in xenial
<tsimonq2> lol
<teward> !info python-django
<ubottu> python-django (source: python-django): High-level Python web development framework (Python 2 version). In component main, is optional. Version 1.7.9-1ubuntu5.4 (wily), package size 952 kB, installed size 10793 kB
<teward> !info python-django xenial
<ubottu> python-django (source: python-django): High-level Python web development framework (Python 2 version). In component main, is optional. Version 1.8.7-1ubuntu4 (xenial), package size 842 kB, installed size 9075 kB
<teward> Or, from rmadison:
<teward>  python-django | 1.6.1-2           | trusty           | source, all
<teward>  python-django | 1.8.7-1ubuntu4    | xenial           | source, all
<tsimonq2> okay, so we know what's going to happen going forward?
<teward> (with other ubuntu spevcific changes in trusty-updates,-security)
<tsimonq2> teward: or are you implying a different point here besides what's already been established?
 * tsimonq2 can't tell :)
<teward> [2016-03-23 17:34:17] <superfly> So basically get it working on Django-<version in xenial>, I think
<teward> OR
<teward> Django-<version in trusty>
<teward> Ideally, they want to put it on Xenial (read their email!), but would also settle for Trusty if need be
<tsimonq2> so I think the priority would be Trusty because that's the next hop up, but Xenial is a priority as well :)
<superfly> I'm not a Django person, but AFAIK, 1.8 is current-1, so that would be the best one to target
<teward> tsimonq2: let me rephrase: the IS team wants, ideally, to move to Xenial, not Trusty
<superfly> I think both 1.6 and 1.7 are already put out to pasture
<teward> I would start by a port to Xenial's version, determine if it's feasible, and easily done
<tsimonq2> mhm
<tsimonq2> but I wouldn't forget Trusty
<tsimonq2> I see what you are saying
<tsimonq2> but just in case
<daker> so 1.8 is an LTS wich is good 1.6 is unsupported
<superfly> I don't see the point of trusty. you're going to have a big jump, whether to move to trusty or xenial, I think it makes more sense to just jump to xenial. less effort
<teward> if not, then I would fall back to the version in Trusty, as a secondary solution
<teward> either way there'll be headaches moving from (ancient) 1.3 to 1.6 (Trusty) or 1.8 (Xenial)
<teward> tsimonq2: start by targeting Xenial, though I doubt it'll be done until after Xenial releases.
 * teward makes a note to replace his wifi access point at a later time
<teward> what was my last message?
<tsimonq2> superfly, teward: that's ultimately IS's decision, although we should prepare either way, let's consider Trusty and Xenial equal priority, just in case, although I get what you are saying :)
<teward> tsimonq2: i'd still target Xenial first (Django 1.8), before going to Trusty (Django 1.6)
<teward> that's all :)
<daker> tsimonq2: xenial
<teward> per IS's ideal situations
<daker> 1.6 is alreay outdated
<teward> indeed
<daker> and 1.8 is an LTS supported til 2018
<tsimonq2> alright, creating an action :)
<teward> also note I don't know Django, so any part of that migration is not something I can assist with; though I'm happy to make suggestions and such when pinged for my input :)
<tsimonq2> #action Ensure the LoCo Portal works with Xenial's version of Django
<meetingology> ACTION: Ensure the LoCo Portal works with Xenial's version of Django
<tsimonq2> so is that all we needed to talk about?
<tsimonq2> #topic Misc.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) | LoCo Portal Planning Meeting | Current
<tsimonq2> I think we are good?
<daker> the fix for the cronjob is here https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-team-portal/fix.1542697/+merge/289581
<tsimonq2> I saw :)
 * tsimonq2 is happy
<daker> and we are done ?
<tsimonq2> I think so
<tsimonq2> I'll leave this open until 22 UTC for people to jump in if desired
<tsimonq2> if they are reading and don't understand something or have something to add :)
 * superfly has nothing further to say :-)
<teward> I don't think there's anything else, tsimonq2, perhaps #endmeeting is appropriate?
<teward> (further points can be brought up outside the meeting if need be)
<tsimonq2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Mar 23 21:54:32 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-23-21.00.moin.txt
<tsimonq2> there :)
<tsimonq2> thanks for your help teward :)
<tsimonq2> and thanks again daker and superfly :)
<daker> yw
<teward> yep
<superfly> yw
* teward changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-03-24
<dsmythies1> I'm here for some Ubuntu Doc Leadership meeting. Who is running it?
<knome> dpm should be, but is not around yet
<dholbach> I would be around for the meeting and I think davidcalle, mhall119  and popey also wanted to be there
<davidcalle> dsmythies1: knome: hi o/
<knome> hello davidcalle
<dsmythies1> Hi
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Hi everyone
<GunnarHj> hello all
<dholbach> hey hey
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Hi you
<davidcalle> Meeting agenda -> http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team
<knome> davidcalle, you might want to do #startmeeting
<davidcalle> Thanks knome
<davidcalle> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 24 14:37:35 2016 UTC.  The chair is davidcalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<popey> o/
<dholbach> hey :)
<GunnarHj> o/
<dholbach> all right... shall we get started then - thanks a lot for filling out the agenda already
<knome> before we go into the agenda, can we quickly go through the original request if anybody has questions about it
<dholbach> sure
<knome> so that we are on the same page on what we should discuss today
<dsmythies1> knome: I thought the original request was well written and stated the issues well.
<knome> (i expect everybody has read the original mail, so fire away questions)
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Yeap
<AlbertoSalviaNov> The pad is already very clear
<GunnarHj> I stated one objection to the original request in a comment on the pad.
<dholbach> I'm a bit confused
<dholbach> the proposal seems to be mostly about getting somebody from the Canonical Community team to be assigned to lead the doc team, and then there's a number of specific issues relating to docs themselves which are on the agenda
<mhall119> hey guys, sorry for being late
 * mhall119 reads the backlog real quick
<knome> GunnarHj, it's likely the inability to make decision has affected the community help wiki the most, but essentially we are again seeing discussion to moving to some other markup with the serverguide instead of seeing actual contributions
<knome> GunnarHj, so i wouldn't say it's only the community help wiki; of course, i'm not particularly involved with the desktop or server docs
<GunnarHj> Well, let's drop that discussion. It won't lead us forward anyway.
<knome> dholbach, that's the agenda dpm set up, and people built on
<dsmythies1> dholbach: I understood this meeting to be mainly about getting help.
<dholbach> ok...
<dholbach> it looks like we have different expectations and not everyone sees themselves represented by the agenda?
<dholbach> or am I misunderstanding things?
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Not my case
<knome> dholbach, i totally agree that we should keep more on the meta level than talk about actual tasks to be worked on (though i understand that at that this point it would be essential to get the desktop guide for the LTS in at least some kind of good shape, and that might already require help from canonical)
<mhall119> dholbach: so I don't think the request was specifically for someone in our team (canonical community team) to step up to lead the docs team, just for somebody within canonical to do so
<knome> dholbach, talk about not being able to make decisions... :)
<dsmythies1> I merely filled out dpm's thing about 16.04, but it doesn't matter.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: The agenda is fine. Let's move on.
<mhall119> pleia2: are you around to join this meeting?
<dholbach> ok, let's use the agenda then - feel free to add more items if your item is not covered
<knome> mhall119, she's jetlagging and probably sleeping
<mhall119> ah, right, ok
<dholbach> who wants to talk about the first item?
<knome> i don't.
<mhall119> dholbach: first item being "Pending tasks for 16.04"?
<knome> can you ping me when we've covered that?
<dsmythies1> I said what I wanted to say in the etherpad itself.
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Yes knome
<davidcalle> I have one question about the first item: names next to tasks. Eg dsmythies1 is the first taks "assigned" to you and you are looking for help, or is it a topic you want to raise?
<GunnarHj> As regards the status of the desktop guide (which initially triggered this meeting) it's under control. Doug added the pending items to the agenda.
<dsmythies1> I was just saying who will do it. No help required.
<davidcalle> Ok
<dsmythies1> The list might not be complete, I just wrote what I do (and one Gunnar thing).
<dholbach> dsmythies1, are there any blockers regarding the desktop guide, apart from it being still quite a bit of work?
<knome> can the community team ask for some assistance with the documentation from people who work with those specific areas?
<GunnarHj> dholbach: No blockers.
<knome> eg. so that dsmythies1 doesn't have to do all the work?
<mhall119> knome: we can, it would help a great deal to get very specific needs
<davidcalle> knome: that's what I was going to ask: do you need us to raise awareness about eg. the server guide?
<dsmythies1> For my part of it, I lost months tryign to get a good 16.04 server (and desktop) going with which to work on. But no, not blockers now for desktop. Blocker for serverguide was inability to build PDF, but solved this morning.
<knome> here's how i think it should go:
<mhall119> like "Adding network printer of ipp docs have outdated instructions from 10.04"
<knome> canonical employee works on application/area X
<mhall119> rather than "printing docs need updating"
<dholbach> knome, that part is understood
<knome> canonical employee makes sure the documentation for application/area X is in order
<mhall119> knome: that's not generally how canonical employees work
<AlbertoSalviaNov> It is there something to talk about concerning the first item then?
<knome> mhall119, can we make some generalisations and not focus on the minutiae?
<knome> mhall119, because i don't think that's helpful at all
<dholbach> knome, it's important to understand this
<mhall119> knome: I think focusing on details is what's needed now
<knome> okay...
<dholbach> we basically have little idea how the team is run
<knome> let's make an example
<knome> serge works on LXD for canonical
<dholbach> I am grateful for the explanation earlier
<mhall119> knome: there isn't one canonical person responsible for application/area X
<knome> --> serge works with the docs team to make sure the docs are up-to-date
<knome> mhall119, i understand and know.
<knome> another example:
<dholbach> dsmythies1, did you reach out to the desktop team and their communications channels about this already?
<knome> mhall119 makes a change in some package he doesn't usually work on
<knome> --> mhall119 works with the documentation team to make sure the change is documented
<knome> mhall119, does that make sense to you?
<knome> currently, changes are landed and the documentation team mostly works on the documentation changes without canonical involvement
<dsmythies1> dholbach: That would be more something that Gunnar would typically do.
<mhall119> knome: in that scenario, does the developer update the docs, or tell someone from the docs team what changed?
<knome> i'm not saying the canonical employees need to write the documentation, but some cooperation would be helpful; especially in the case that the documentation team can't handle all the tasks in time
<dholbach> dsmythies1, do you know if any coordination or any reaching out has already happened? if not, we should note down we still need to do that
<knome> mhall119, ^ see last comment for answer
<AlbertoSalviaNov> I don't think that's the kind of involvement we need from Canonical. We just need someone to coordinate the effords.
<dholbach> guys
<dsmythies1> knome: Yes. We have very much a"you try and it and discover for yourselves" approach right now.
<dholbach> what we're discussing here is coordination
<dholbach> so please let's go through this one by one
<GunnarHj> dholbach: What do you mean by "coordination or any reaching out"?
 * knome waits for dholbach to tell who can speak then
<dholbach> GunnarHj, my first impulse was to talk to the desktop team or mail their mailing list and see if there's anyone who could help with the screenshots
<GunnarHj> dholbach: I made a "call for help" request on the docs list, and we did the most necessary work already.
<dholbach> knome, I was under the impression we used the agenda now
<dholbach> GunnarHj, ok... so the screenshots for the desktop guide are done then?
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Doug will do the screenshots. It's under control!
<knome> dholbach, okay.
<dholbach> ok, great - sorry for the confusion then
<dsmythies1> dholbach: I will do the screenshots. I have doen them for many cycles now.
<dholbach> thanks a lot dsmythies1
<dsmythies1> hoeever...
<mhall119> thanks dsmythies1, do you have a script or workflow that you use which others can follow?
<dsmythies1> let me say something.
<dholbach> sure
<dsmythies1> the issue with the screenshots is that we have to do them so very very late in the cycle.
<dsmythies1> mhall119: I do not use a script.
<dsmythies1> the script has always been a waste of time, in my opinion.
<dholbach> GunnarHj, I was just thinking of the desktop team list because I know there's lots of subscribers, some only listening in, and maybe somebody to help with screenshots (or related work) could maybe recruited there the next time :)
<dsmythies1> I set up a minimum szed screen, for maximum left over resolution after re-sizing.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Possibly. But we are talking about 5 screenshots or so..
<dholbach> oh ok
<dholbach> in that case that's not necessary O:-)
<AlbertoSalviaNov> I think that's a trivial problem right now
<dholbach> ok, cool
<dholbach> GunnarHj, what are the desktop master files?
<GunnarHj> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/trunk
<dsmythies1> dholbach: I meant the master bzr branch in Launhpad
<mhall119> and what needs to be updated on those?
<mhall119> are there MPs or bug reports or something that lists what needs to be done?
<GunnarHj> mhall119: The screenshots, translations, and we are done.
<dholbach> cool - are the translations teams busy with the translations already?
<dsmythies1> mhall119: No, this is now the regular release procedure. No MP or bug report.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Hope so. The tempate is in Rosetta.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: is there a list of screenshots that need to be updated?
<dholbach> maybe somebody could ping the team another mail?
<dsmythies1> mhall119: I have not decided yet which screen shots need to be re-done.
<knome> dholbach, there are problems related to translation teams "working", but dpm told it was off-topic for this meeting; i've added the item to the agenda again though.
<GunnarHj> mhall119, dholbach: Please!!! dsmythies and I have it under control. No extra action needed!
<dholbach> ok, let's move on to the next item then
<AlbertoSalviaNov> What is the most important think to talk to? start there!
<dholbach> GunnarHj, sorry, we're finding our way around here and wanted to make sure the points on the agenda are well understood
<AlbertoSalviaNov> About sorry
<mhall119> GunnarHj: we were asked to help the docs team, in order to do that we have to understand the state of things, which is why we're asking all these questions
<GunnarHj> dholbach: No problem. But I just want you to know that we did some work after the CC meeting when we said that no work had been done yet.
<knome> whoever is adding items to the agenda, please add it as the last item.
<dholbach> shall we talk about the server guide then? that seems to be next on the agenda?
<slangasek> doko bdmurray robru cyphermox: hi, looks like there's another meeting in progress here; #ubuntu-meeting-2?
<mhall119> sorry slangasek
<dsmythies1> serverguide is in trouble. it is falling behind reality. We only started doing anything with it after string freeze.
<knome> dsmythies1, can i suggest something that you likely agree with?
<dsmythies1> knome: Go ahead.
<mhall119> dsmythies1: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, is where a list of what specific things need updating on the server guide?
<knome> instead of talking about the work items we need to take, could we talk about how this situation doesn't repeat again with the next release, and what kind of cooperation from what teams would be needed
<AlbertoSalviaNov> I agree with knome in that regard
<dsmythies1> mhall119: wait a minute...
<knome> since that was the intention of the original mail we have written and sent with lyz
<dsmythies1> knome: I am wrtting...
<knome> no hurry.
<dholbach> knome, AlbertoSalviaNov: if we understand better what needs doing, we can note it down and figure out where we can bring people together to solve this
<knome> dholbach, i'm sure actionable work items will bring up within the discussion
<knome> *will be brought up
<AlbertoSalviaNov> We simply know that nobody is really in charge of the documentation, and that is all.
<dsmythies1> If I could go back to knome's earlier point: Myself, I think person X works on some serever aspect. Person X MUST supply documentation. The "toss it over the fence" approach does not work. I mean I just sued systemd for the first time two months ago.
<AlbertoSalviaNov> We do not need further analysis.
<dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, I think we do
<knome> dsmythies1, instead of "MUST supply", i would say "must cooperate with the documentation team"
<dsmythies1> mhall119: : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
<knome> dsmythies1, ultimately, that might mean supplying the documentation though
<dsmythies1> knome: The difference between the serverguide and others is that we need Subject Matter Experts. Often the docs team has no lcue how to write the stuff.
<dholbach> right
<dsmythies1> no clue
<knome> dsmythies1, ack, though i see the same issue with the desktop docs
<knome> dsmythies1, or at least the part that changes are not made known, and no cooperation effort is offered
<dsmythies1> mhall119: We also have put out requests for help on the serverteam e-mail list and on Ubuntu forums, a few times now.
<knome> maybe it's easier to figure out the desktop doc stuff
<mhall119> dsmythies1: this is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! So the items in yellow and red are the ones that need help?
<dholbach> so the way I would normally approach a situation where team A and B need to work more closely together would be to put together a list of items, discuss early on which items might be subject to change, and track the list during the cycle
<dholbach> and I think we can help in bringing the docs team people together with folks who do that
<knome> dholbach, one of the problems related to that is that some changes land very late in the cycle and are unannounced before it's too late
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Not working closer is not the cause but the consequence, of not having a coordinator.
<dsmythies1> mhall119: They are the higher prioities, yes. pmatulis's original e-mail list items by priroity.
<dholbach> and if at some stage we find there's not enough time, we could do something like: dev from team A provides some pointers, or the point is discussed on team A's mailing list and we try to rope others in
<dholbach> knome, the team managers should know around UOS or some weeks later which blocks they're going to land
<knome> dholbach, weight on the word should.
<dholbach> so that time should be good to discuss the plan
<dholbach> knome, mh?
<knome> dholbach, i'm sorry to have "an attitude", but that's the reality
<mhall119> dsmythies1: it looks like most are in need of review, is that something you need the developers to review, or something the docs team reviews?
<dholbach> knome, look - I can't change the reality of a fast moving project
<knome> dholbach, also please note that a plan isn't enough for the docs team to start working
<knome> dholbach, say, take the gnome software inclusion
<dholbach> I think we need to start with a plan to bring people together
<dholbach> knome, please
<knome> dholbach, we still don't know if it's in its final stage, but it's past the documentation freee
<knome> dholbach, please what?
<dholbach> I know
<dholbach> but we can only plan for what we do know
<knome> dholbach, i'm just pointing out the details.
 * dsmythies1 tries to keep up...
<dholbach> and I think that a plan and some more discussion would help a lot already
<mhall119> knome: does the docs team currently have regular meetings with the engineering teams?
<knome> mhall119, none at all.
<dholbach> knome, I've been part of this project for 11 years now - don't you think I know that some stuff lands very late? I'm unhappy about this too and I'm sorry for anyone who has to do the work catching up.
<dholbach> but I'm really trying to help here
<dholbach> and I think that an early plan, discussed with the right people and some regular catchup will be an improvement
<mhall119> knome: does the docs team have regularly scheduled meetings of their own, where we can invite the engineering teams?
<knome> mhall119, not regularly scheduled, and when they happen, often not many people are able to attend
<mhall119> ok, that's one of the first things that I think needs to happen
<AlbertoSalviaNov> So, again, that's not the problem
<knome> dholbach, i don't disagree.
<GunnarHj> mhall119: There were regular docs team meetings, but not currently. We miss a leader/coordinator.
<dholbach> knome, good :)
<dsmythies1> mhall119: For the serverguide, we need developers to review. I can give a couple of examples, which will also relate to knome's points.
<mhall119> dsmythies1: ok, with your detailed list we can take that to the engineering teams and ask them to assign somebody to review each one, I can't imagine a single page review would take very long
<dsmythies1> Example 1: Samba: A major component has been dropped, well after the start of 16.04. Cost me about a month trying to make my server work. Need developer to update that chapter.
<knome> mhall119, it would help if there was a clear understanding on what should be on the agenda, and then stick to it too.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: how frequent were those meetings in the past
<mhall119> ?
<mhall119> weekly, bi-weekly, monthly?
<knome> mhall119, understanding and agreement, that is.
<GunnarHj> mhall119: monthly
<mhall119> knome: for this meeting, or for regular docs team meetings?
<knome> mhall119, both :)
<dsmythies1> Example 2: from 14.04: The change for wen server file to default was changed from /var/www/ to /var/www/html so bery late in the cycle that we had already reviewed that chapter. Then it was broken.
<AlbertoSalviaNov> I personally think meetings are not needed: you just bring topics inmediately as needed, as you write documentation inmediately when a change takes place.
<knome> AlbertoSalviaNov, i disagree.
<mhall119> for the regular meetings, I think doing something like the CC does and pre-schedule checkins with the various engineering teams so you can talk to them about what they're landing and what docs will need to change because of it
<dholbach> Maybe we could try something like this next cycle: review the ToC early on in the cycle, figure out which will likely need updating, have regular catchups (be it by mail, IRC or whatever) with the relevant managers of the engineering teams to track progress and define an escalation process. This could also be brought up on the desktop or server lists to get others involved and more help?
<GunnarHj> mhall119: That's a good idea.
<knome> dholbach, would it be the documenation teams responsibility and task to check if updates are going to land?
<dholbach> knome, it should be in the calendar of the relevant team manager and somebody who understands which blocks have already landed in the docs
<knome> ack.
<mhall119> knome: it would be the responsibility of both docs team and engineering teams to coordinate code landings with doc updates
<dholbach> and if it's just an email every other week - it can be lightweight
<dholbach> it wouldn't necessary have to be a full-blown hangout which takes 2 hours or something
<GunnarHj> dholbach, mhall119: But we are not talking about rather obvious things that should be done. The problem is that we don't have persons to assume the leadership roles needed.
<knome> that too.
<GunnarHj> not->now
<dholbach> GunnarHj, can you maybe name a few responsibilities that would fit into these roles?
<AlbertoSalviaNov> It is simpler than having roles
<mhall119> GunnarHj: understood, but finding out what that leader will needs to do will help us find him or her
<GunnarHj> dholbach: We just mentioned coordination with engineering.
 * dholbach nods
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Ack.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: something that we've been learning with the CC and LC is that leaders are more likely to come around if the responsibilities of leadership are clearly defined
<knome> and as the original mail implies, coordination of the documentation team in general
<knome> the mail even lists three actionable items; let me paste them here
<dholbach> thanks
<knome> â Work as a mediator with the members to resolve disagreements, be
<knome> able to reach a consensus and get along with the work
<knome> â Work with other Canonical employees, encouraging them to take part
<knome> more in writing documentation, especially with the components they are
<knome> working with themself
<knome> â Work with the Canonical IS team to resolve technical difficulties
<popey> I think this regular meeting could do with some help from some (one or more) of us in the community team to chase down people internally
<knome> the community help wiki is experiencing
<dholbach> popey++
<mhall119> in the short term, the leader will also need to scedule the regular docs team meetings at a time and frequency that will get the most attendance
<knome> yes
<mhall119> and probably will need to run the meetings, at least to start
<knome> alternatively, just schedule often enough that everybody in the team gets to participate once in a while
<knome> because obviously there isn't a time that works for everybody, ever
<popey> a common problem
<mhall119> regularity still works out better than ad-hoc, but the leader can decide how best to balance those needs
<popey> Typically helped by using meeting bot and sending out a nice update mail to the team, so people who couldn't be there can contribute via email.
<mhall119> +1
<AlbertoSalviaNov> Meetings take people out of work, where you could just email people when needed, and they can read and answer when it better suits them.
<dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, I find this quite productive now
<knome> AlbertoSalviaNov, i still disagree.
<mhall119> meetings also let you get through more things faster, this last hour of discussion would have taken a week over email
<dholbach> AlbertoSalviaNov, if you'd rather leave, I think that's fine
<dholbach> it's also an important opportunity to bring people together from separate teams
<dholbach> of course they shouldn't be longer or more often than necessary
<knome> i agree that meetings *can* be distracting and useless in some cases, but i wouldn't call all meetings useless and try to avoid them like a plague
<GunnarHj> Meetings serve the purpose to remind people about things which need to be done.
<knome> and as dholbach said, it's agreat opportunity to meet people you wouldn't meet otherwise.
<knome> like that AlbertoSalviaNov guy.
<popey> +100
<dholbach> What do you feel are the most urgent items for 16.04, which feel like they need to be rescued?
<knome> dholbach, let me throw the ball back to you:
<knome> what does canonical feel is the most important area in their official desktop/server documentation?
<knome> or is it not important to them
<dholbach> knome, I'm probably not the best person to answer this
<dholbach> but it's a question we could ask the desktop and server folks
<knome> dholbach, ack. this is one of the questions the coordinator for the doc team could help answer
<knome> and keep in mind, and coordinate work based on that
<dholbach> let's note it down
<knome> nobody in the doc team has that insight.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: Let's not talking more about the 16.04 desktop guide. We will be shipping a decent (I hope) set of docs.
<GunnarHj> dholbach: No rescue plan needed, in other words.
<dholbach> GunnarHj, ok... and for the server guide is there anything urgent we, right now, could help out with by raising awareness or doing anything else?
<mhall119> GunnarHj: so nothing is in critical need of work from Canonical for 16.04 docs?
<mhall119> basically, is there bleeding that we need to stop before we work on fixing the soure of the problem?
<dsmythies1> For serverguide, yes: The entire thing needs to be reviewed for accuracy.
<knome> GunnarHj, would you say that the desktop documentation for 16.04 has got the "minimal" effort to kept up-to-date instead of actually being able to improve it this cycle?
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Not for desktop. Can't speak for server.
<dsmythies1> desktop got about 1.50th of the attention it could have used.
<GunnarHj> knome: Yes.
<dsmythies1> 1/50th
<mhall119> it sounds like server needs to have somebody review that list of pages
<knome> GunnarHj, okay
<AlbertoSalviaNov> I think there is nothing else I can contribute to this conversation, that I think we need a coordinator and everything else will come on its own.
<dsmythies1> there is also talk of chnaging to some new markdown laguage.
<AlbertoSalviaNov> So bye bye
<mhall119> dsmythies1: that's something that can be worked out once a leader is identified and regular meetings start again
<mhall119> I don't think we're prepared to make any decisions on that today
<dholbach> dsmythies1, who's discussing this right now?
<dsmythies1> e-mail thread on serverteam and docteam lists.
<dholbach> did you get the feeling that the people who are discussing this would also put some work into this? :)
<GunnarHj> +1'
<dsmythies1> yes, there were, I think, 2 or 3 that said they would help with a markdown type change.
<dholbach> but that sounds more like a 16.10 discussion, right?
<dholbach> dsmythies1, is there a list of chapters which need to be reviewed with more priority than others?
<dsmythies1> That is my thought yes, but we also had the same talk at 14.04 and then is fizzled. BY the way we only publish LTS serverguides
<mhall119> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide#Contribution_table has the list along with priorities for the server guide
<dsmythies1> dholbach: Yes, The link I gave earlier. I will find and repeat
<dsmythies1> ... oh never mind
<dholbach> thanks I must have missed it
<dsmythies1> mhall119: BY the way for desktop: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19RdaR3G_8TQ49f-Nb0XJAwhnlweMWJqsTr4kciSV5S0/edit#gid=584037095
<mhall119> dsmythies1: is there a priority list for those?
<dsmythies1> No. we did a bit of priority by e-mail.
<mhall119> dsmythies1: can you find the link to that thread in the archive and add it to our etherpad?
<dsmythies1> I'll try...
<dholbach> thanks
<mhall119> thanks dsmythies1
<hannie> I want you to have a look at the workflow at The Ubuntu Manual: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Nl3Yue69IM2EflSdyeHgADET49RZRmgfDVoxHutQIk/edit#gid=2094840941
<mhall119> dholbach: for the immediate future, how about you and I contact the desktop and server teams with these list of review needs for 16.04
<hannie> It does work there, but the UM is more structured than ubuntu docs
<GunnarHj> As regards the desktop, there were a mix of list messages and private mails. Not easy to provide a link to the latter.
<dholbach> mhall119, yes, let's chat about this later on
<dholbach> hannie, do you want to explain a bit how the structure differs?
<hannie> Ok. UM is divided in chapters and sections. Every contributor takes care of a certain chapter or section.
<dholbach> And the contributors are the ones who wrote them initially?
<hannie> Ubuntu docs is more like a set of loose pages with less structure in it
<hannie> No, each version we have different contributors
<dholbach> and where did you recruit them?
<hannie> Like with the docs, we also struggle to get enough people to help, so we decided to publish only LTS versions
<hannie> Recruting is done her:e: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<knome> i don't think ubuntu can only ship LTS docs
<knome> documentation needs to go with all releases
<dsmythies1> GunnarHj: Good point.
<hannie> knome, I agree
<dholbach> that looks nice - good work putting this all together
<hannie> But I waas talking about the workflow
<knome> okay.
<mhall119> GunnarHj: can one of you but together a list of priorities? Or at least a "top X" pages we can have the desktop team focus on?
<dsmythies1> Desktop: The problem, the way I see it, is that I don't know if the page needs work or not until I try it. So far, evertying I have looked at has uncovered issues.
<hannie> dsmythies1, that is why I was thinking of assigning parts of the docs to team members who can read and change "their" part of the documents
<GunnarHj> mhall119: Hmm.. DocumentationStringFreeze was a week ago. Selecting top priority pages is quite some work. IMO we need to let 16.04 go as regards the desktop.
<mhall119> dsmythies1: do you know which pages are going to be most commonly referred to by users?
<dsmythies1> mhall119: No.
<knome> mhall119, maybe the canonical IS can set something up for that
<knome> mhall119, though they promised to do the same for the community help wiki ages ago, not seeing anything for that yet either :)
<knome> (not blaming anybody, just pointing out)
<mhall119> knome: you mean getting page view stats?
<knome> yes
<mhall119> ack, we can look into that
<knome> isn't that the same as most referenced?
<dsmythies1> GunnarHj:   right, we hit string freeze so we stopped. I went to serverguide, and to build issues.
<mhall119> knome: probably
<knome> mhall119, as you do that, here's the ticket from december 2013 for the community help wiki: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=23534
<mhall119> knome: thanks, are there other outstanding RTs for the docs team that we need to follow up on?
<dsmythies1> yes, but page veiw stats doesn't tell us help usage within a computer, which might be quite different.
<knome> dsmythies1, true, though might give some insight.
<mhall119> dsmythies1: true, but I don't think there's any way we can get that info
<dsmythies1> agreed
<knome> mhall119, not any i'm following ATM
<mhall119> alright, we've gotten quite a bit of information from you guys, which is going to take some time to absorb, and dholbach and I both have action items, can we go ahead and schedule a follow-up meeting with you for next week, or in 2 weeks, to pick it up again?
<hannie> fine
<dsmythies1> yes, fine.
<mhall119> same day and time, if that works well enough for everybody?
<dsmythies1> O.K. for me.
<GunnarHj> fine with me too
<knome> can't promise anything, i would set a doodle poll again
<hannie> See you all next time
<mhall119> dholbach: are you good for next week?
<dholbach> yes, I think that should work
<dholbach> thanks a lot for your input everyone
<dholbach> and thanks for the patience
<mhall119> great, thanks everybody for your time and all of the insights
<davidcalle> #info Notes and actions: http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team
<dsmythies1> Thanks
<davidcalle> Thanks all
<GunnarHj> Thanks!
<davidcalle> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 24 16:09:37 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-03-24-14.37.moin.txt
<popey> \o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-20
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 20 16:30:36 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK]] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hey
<jdstrand> I'm focusing on catching up on email and irc today
<jdstrand> I will be working on store reviews and snappy reviews
<jdstrand> since I'm not through email yet, I'm not sure how much there is. if I have time, I'll work on the in progress cards assigend to me in the trello lane. specifically, k8s interface and picking up the remaining bits of seccomp arg filtering that haven't landed already
<jdstrand> that's it for me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm on triage this week
<mdeslaur> I have an embargoed issue I'm working on
<mdeslaur> and I'm about to release freetype and gnutls26 updates
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll be picking some more stuff from the list
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I have a glibc update I should be sending out later today
<sbeattie> I have some kernel triage stuff to sort out, possibly the triage bot is a bit confused because of the kernel meta revert
<sbeattie> Once I have glibc out the door, I'll be going down the list.
<sbeattie> That's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I'm testing embargoed updates
<tyhicks> I need to sponsor nvidia driver updates
<tyhicks> and things are finally looking good for me returning to the seccomp logging work
<tyhicks> yay for the happy place this week
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I've got dconf/gsettings FFe to work on (paper work mostly), apparmor upstreaming work, and need to finish updating the backport patches
<tyhicks> sarnold: I think jjohansen is done
<jjohansen> oh and if I can manage it, spend more time reviewing Casey's stacking patches, and plan out we are going to have to do
<jjohansen> yeah, sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; and working on the shadow update, then finish lasso mir..
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I need to get thunderbird updated this week. I also need to publish oxide updates
<chrisccoulson> I've got to fix an ubufox compatibility issue with the next Firefox release, which shouldn't take too long
<chrisccoulson> Also need to start to spend some time figuring out what to do with ubufox and our start page once Firefox drops support for legacy extensions
<chrisccoulson> I made some progress reviewing oxide branches last week, which I need to finish off
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working on oxide as usual
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage
<ratliff> I'm also continuing to work on vivid updates and the notification tool
<ratliff> I have a variety of internal tasks this week also which will take some time.
<ratliff> back to you, tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-rsa.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gummi.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ibm-3270.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/elog.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/most.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 20 16:50:08 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-20-16.30.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-21
<jgrimm> o/
<nacc> o/
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<rharper> o/
<smb> o/
<rharper> wow
<jgrimm> chair today?
<cpaelzer> classic or any new release of wow
<nacc> smoser: --^ ?
 * rbasak thought he cancelled the meeting? :-P
<nacc> although strategically he has deleted it from all our calendar's repeatedly :)
<rharper> jgrimm: pretty sure you uninvited the chair with all of those calendar entries
<jgrimm> :)
<powersj> lol
<smoser> oh shot. i'm the leader.
<jgrimm> i didn't uninvite.. smoser kept cancelling it
<nacc> 'oh shot' -- i love it and am going to use that
<smoser> like snap
<nacc> yep
<jgrimm> so i need to leave at 30 minutes (as does smoser), so we should jump to it
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 21 16:02:54 2017 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<powersj> I haven't done anything more to it
<rbasak> I was away last week. Still need to do that :-/
<cpaelzer> I added about 5 lines
<cpaelzer> still an action
<cpaelzer> same action even
<smoser> alright. carry then.
<smoser> ACTION: rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<smoser> everyone review 17.04 release notes
 * smoser took a read of that
<smoser> #topic Zesty Development
<nacc> smoser: i think we probably need to carry that one forward too
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Zesty Development
<smoser> #action:  rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<meetingology> ACTION: :  rbasak, powersj, cpaelzer to draft mysql triage response page like nginx has
<smoser> #action everyone review 17.04 release notes  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone review 17.04 release notes  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes
<nacc> heh, twice the action! :)
<rbasak> shot? :-)
<cpaelzer> hehe
<nacc> final beta freeze was last night
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> so yeah, its coming up.
<smoser> bug fixes.... please.
<smoser> #subtopic blueprints
<smoser> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<smoser> any comments there ?
<jgrimm> smoser, please action me to create an aa-series blueprint
<smoser> i know that nacc made some progress on systemctl status degraded
<smoser> #action jgrimm create a aa-series blueprint
<meetingology> ACTION: jgrimm create a aa-series blueprint
<nacc> yeah, i have a couple of open questions in the bug for hallyn and pitti
<jgrimm> we are in excellent shape on what we wanted to accomplish overall in z and getting into the nice-to-haves
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> rbasak: is the mysql-5.5 really a zesty bug?
<smoser> i just tagged the cloud-init one fix-released. it just hadnt been tagged in zesty
<rbasak> cpaelzer: not sure. Looking.
<smoser> powersj, your changes are all in the queue ?
<smoser> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> bah. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomcat7/+bug/1666570
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1666570 in tomcat7 (Debian) "Post install script has error in RegEx" [Unknown,New]
<powersj> yep
<smoser> k
<rbasak> cpaelzer: looks like it's really akonadi only - certainly in Zesty onwards.
<smoser> anything else? moving on ?
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week few merge requests for cloud-init testing and one for curtin to add more test logs. 4 days of bug triage and some bug work. Started looking into why the server ISOs are not being tested at night automatically, still not resolved. I am currently kicking them off manually my AM each day.
<powersj> This week plan to get cloud-init and curtin tests green (done), determined the ppc64 ISO oversize (done - due to netinstall dir), updated LXD to 2.12 on the test systems (done), look into pylint for CI, break up some of the jenkins job scripts and actual test scripts, bug day tomorrow, and bug triage (2 days).
<smoser> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> No news. Are there questions/requests?
<nacc> smb: any chance you can give some input on LP: #1668808 (related to LP: #1613758). I am not familiar enough with dkms to understand how to get it not to build for > 4.4.0 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668808 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu Xenial) "iscsitarget-dkms 1.4.20.3+svn502-2ubuntu4: iscsitarget kernel module failed to build [error: field ârx_hashâ has incomplete type]" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1668808
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1613758 in iscsitarget (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[RM] iscsitarget should be removed from Yakkety" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1613758
<nacc> smb: essentialy iscsitarget-dkms failed to build on 16.04.2 hwe
<smb> nacc, I could
<nacc> smb: thanks!
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> looking... jgrimm you had a link from lwn for that ?
<jgrimm> smoser, yeah it should have been in the hints section
<smoser> https://lwn.net/Calendar/
<jgrimm> there ya go
<smoser> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<smoser> there ya go
<smoser> well, take a look there
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> nacc, or rbasak ?
<nacc> Bug Squashing Day is tmrw (22.3.17): http://pad.ubuntu.com/U5GLIMwc2u
<smoser> \o/
<cpaelzer> nacc: I'll set the server chan topic accordingly
<cpaelzer> nacc: when I start
<nacc> cpaelzer: perfect, was just going to sync up with after this
<cpaelzer> nacc: pointing to the mail and the pad
<nacc> cpaelzer: that would be great
<smoser> thanks1
<smoser> thanks!
<nacc> cpaelzer: if you have it, feel free to add a link to the mail in the pad
<cpaelzer> nacc: ok, let me know (or reply to the thread) if there is any detail I should take care of
<nacc> cpaelzer: will do
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rharper> saw this last week
<rharper> #link https://lwn.net/Articles/717378/
<rharper> an updated bcachefs
<rharper> with some fancy features
<jgrimm> yeah, i bookmarked that to go back and read at leisure
<rharper> in particular, it does in-place fs migration
<rharper> may not impact us yet; but lots of things we should look at
<jgrimm> neat
<smoser> anything else ?
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> same time same channel.
<smoser> rfc 2822         Tue, 28 Mar 2017 16:00:00 +0000
<smoser> and gaughen will host next week
<smoser> thanks for attending!
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 21 16:22:29 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-21-16.02.moin.txt
<nacc> smoser: thanks!
<jgrimm> thanks
<powersj> smoser: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-03-23
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 23 15:01:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson rbalint)
<slangasek> tdaitx infinity doko barry robru sil2100 chiluk rbalint slangasek cyphermox bdmurray caribou xnox mwhudson
<slangasek> tdaitx: tag
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * firewall exception to run interactive tests not working
<tdaitx>   * executing full tests
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Checking a few openjdk-7/openjdk-8 errors on error tracker
<tdaitx>     - unable to find a reproducer for GMenuModelItemsChangedInvalidIndex; error is still being reported on Trusty though, might be related to LP: #1499747 but need a reproducer to check if glib update fixes that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1499747 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "gedit crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1499747
<tdaitx>     - An awt bug happening since 8u121-b13-0ubuntu1.16.04.2 which seems like a regression; working on a reproducer
<tdaitx> (done)
<infinity>  - Wasted some time trying unsuccessfully to smooth over the kernel/snappy issues.
<infinity>  - Helped sort out a glibc security regression.
<infinity>  - glibc uploads to zesty.
<infinity>  - SRU/AA faff.
<infinity>  - Beta, beta, beta.
<infinity> (done)
<slangasek> doko is off
<slangasek> barry is off
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> britney
<robru> * reviewed a couple branches by laney
<robru> * made Email Policy resend mails periodically, with a decreasing frequency
<robru> archive maintenance
<robru> * troubleshoot a number of packages stuck in proposed (mentored by cyphermox)
<robru> * poked at curl, which is blocked by MIR of two new dependencies
<robru> (done)
<cyphermox> robru: did you file the MIR bugs or update them? I could review those
<bdmurray> robru: was there any discussion about stable releases?
<robru> bdmurray: stable releases still not being emailed as far as I know. do you want that?
<robru> cyphermox: yeah I think mterry is on top of those two MIRs, was just blocked trying to find a team bug subscriber, which is settled now
<slangasek> no sil2100?
<cyphermox> alrighty
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> * Been mostly working on quite a few ceph and ceph performance issues lately, so not much foundation-y stuff.
<chiluk> * 2 half days PTO
<chiluk> - done -
<robru> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpsl/+bug/1668568 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libidn2-0/+bug/1668566 both "fix committed" not sure what else needs to happen to finish those off
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668568 in libpsl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libpsl" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668566 in libidn2-0 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libidn2-0" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<cyphermox> aye aye
<cyphermox> fix committed means it's approved, just needs magic AA powers to complete
<slangasek> rbalint: welcome :)
<slangasek> rbalint: your turn, if you have anything
<rbalint> * entered the foundation team just earlier this week (Hello, Everyone! :-))
<rbalint> * triaged nama's ftbfs looks like to be caused by perl bug https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=839218
<rbalint> * pushed forward boost1.62 transition providing patches for the last 3 packages to transition http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/boost1.62.html
<ubottu> Debian bug 839218 in perl "Perl 5.24 makes nama FTBFS due to segfault" [Serious,Open]
<rbalint> seems I should copy one by one :-)
<slangasek> robru, bdmurray: I guess the mail policy for stable releases needs to be different, since a one-day delay in migrating isn't "stuck"
<tdaitx> rbalint, hi there! welcome =)
<bdmurray> I think Laney might have said everything in -proposed for stable would appear stuck.
<slangasek> rbalint: oh oops, I removed nama from zesty-proposed because I had assumed that was a bug in nama rather than perl; should I un-delete it?
<Laney> hi
<rbalint> slangasek: i think it can be readed
<cyphermox> slangasek: needs fixing in Debian first, no need to undelete it, I'd say
<cyphermox> oh?
<slangasek> cyphermox: according to rbalint the bug is perl rather than nama
<cyphermox> well, yeah, but in the meantime it's still broken
<rbalint> it can be fixed in perl or nama by a workaround
<cyphermox> oh, I didn't remember that
<rbalint> cyphermox: it just came up today
<cyphermox> rbalint: do you have the workaround ready? we could land that and unblock it once re-added?
<slangasek> cyphermox: yes, but once perl is fixed we still won't have a nama package in the archive unless the Debian maintainer happens to upload a new one
<slangasek>  * systemd SRU (LP: #1673860, LP: #1647031, LP: #1651518).
<slangasek>  * ordered more memory for laptop, so I can run a web browser
<slangasek>  * discussions around signed custom kernels for ubuntu-core
<slangasek>  * debugging of k8s testsuite failures in GCE
<slangasek>  * worked on shim-signed, which we've just gotten our first signed binary through the new community process (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/47438.html)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1673860 in systemd (Ubuntu Yakkety) "systemd-resolved unit should run Before=network-online.target" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673860
<slangasek>  * proposed-migration un-sticking work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1647031 in systemd (Ubuntu Yakkety) "systemd-resolvedâs 127.0.0.53 server does not follow CNAME records" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647031
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1651518 in systemd (Ubuntu Yakkety) "systemd/logind parsing problem: HTX exercisers stopped on error: rc 11, errno 11 from main(): pthread_create" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651518
<slangasek>   * have requested more email reminders about stuck packages
<slangasek>  * miscellaneous ppc64el triage and uploads
<slangasek> (done)
<cyphermox> - multipath-tools fix for missing dm-queue-length + SRUs
<cyphermox> - multipath-tools path-selector change
<cyphermox> - merge slideshow update for mascot
<cyphermox> - more slideshow merges to complete for 17.04 updates
<cyphermox> - shim testing and grub2 changes for shim SRUs.
<cyphermox> - subiquity livefs fixes
<cyphermox> - netplan cloned mac support / convincing systemd-networkd to properly apply .li
<cyphermox> nk file changes
<cyphermox> - "mentoring" rbalint on +1 maintenance
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> cyphermox: why the quotes?
<cyphermox> wtf, vi
<bdmurray> had apport updated in staging / production Error Tracker
<bdmurray> looked for and found other crashes which make gdb sad
<bdmurray> reported snappy bug (LP: #1674847) regarding manifest files
<bdmurray> fixed snap of apport so that hooks get run, logging works
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1674847 in Snappy "produce package lists for Ubuntu Core versions on the web" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674847
<cyphermox> bdmurray: because the force is strong with rbalint.
<bdmurray> confirmed apport snap catches cores of other snaps
<bdmurray> created an ubuntu-core general hook for apport snap
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu-core hook to capture dpkg.list file, "snap --version"
<bdmurray> modified ubuntu-core hook to not complain about free space
<rbalint> cyphermox: :-)
<bdmurray> uploaded SRUs of update-notifier / update-manager for LP: #1654008
<bdmurray> improved test case for LP: #1623856, uploaded aptdaemon Y SRU
<bdmurray> troubleshoot of my upgrade to Yakkety
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654008 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Xenial) "/usr/bin/update-manager:OverflowError:/usr/bin/update-manager@117" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654008
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1623856 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Scrolled Windows in update-manager are too small to read" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox> (it's weird to say that when I've never watched any star wars)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>   LP #1654600 : unattended-upgrades breaks shutdown when /var is FS
<caribou>   - Created DEP8 tests for new systemd fix
<caribou>   - Needs review before upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1654600 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrade-shutdown hangs when /var is a separate filesystem" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654600
<caribou>   LP: #1342580 : tftp does not start
<caribou>   - Applied SRU version break suggestion & re-uploaded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1342580 in tftp-hpa (Ubuntu Yakkety) "tftpd-hpa doesn't start on boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342580
<caribou>   Sponsored  LP: #1566508 & rolled back
<caribou>   Sponsored LP: #1590799
<caribou>   Reviewed LP: #1645324 for sponsoring & provided comments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566508 in sssd (Ubuntu Trusty) "autofs races with sssd on startup" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566508
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1590799 in nfs-utils (Ubuntu Zesty) "nfs-kernel-server does not start because of dependency failure" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590799
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1645324 in ebtables (Ubuntu Trusty) "ebtables: Lock file should be moved from /var/lib/ebtables to /run" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1645324
<caribou>  Need AA magic on releasing tomsfastmath into Main following MIR completion
<caribou>  - LP: #1619239
<caribou>  - Will unblock clamav from zesty-proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619239 in tomsfastmath (Ubuntu) "[MIR] tomsfastmath (runtime dependency of clamav)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619239
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou>  â Done
<tdaitx> cyphermox, didn't you meant to say "it's weird that I've never watched any star wars"?
<cyphermox> not really no
<bdmurray> cyphermox: is that some kind of choice?
<cyphermox> I litterally didn't have to do anythign
<cyphermox> don't know, it never came up, I was never interested, I've got plenty with Trek
<cyphermox> cue holy war: Star Trek vs. Star Wars.
<bdmurray> xnox is still on holiday right?
<gaughen> bdmurray, yes
<cyphermox> are we at AOB now then?
<bdmurray> I thought there was somebody after xnox
<slangasek> it was mwhudson next
<slangasek> and he gets a pass
<slangasek> because he's so far off the edge of the world I don't even know how to look up his TZ
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<gaughen> not from me
<bdmurray> No, but could we talk about emails for SRUs stuck in -proposed?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] emails for SRUs stuck in -proposed
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: emails for SRUs stuck in -proposed
<slangasek> ok let's talk :)
<slangasek> but also http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/05/tourist-claims-detained-kazakhstan-officials-refused-believe/
<rbalint> cyphermox: if you miss star wars :-) telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
<cyphermox> https://xkcd.com/1769/
<bdmurray> Laney: You have an opinion on not sending emails right?
<cyphermox> oh, IPv6 has extra bling
<davmor2> cyphermox: it lies
<davmor2> cyphermox: also like there is a war, firefly all the way ;)
<bdmurray> Well he said things are expected to delayed in -proposed for some period of time.
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> so emailing folks after a single day of a package in -proposed for an SRU would be annoying and not helpful
<Laney> bdmurray: don't you already have tooling to mail people?
<bdmurray> And that he thought > 10 days was common.
<Laney> Anyway, two practical issues
<slangasek> Laney: yes, but they only get emailed after 197 days or so
<Laney>  - Need to make the delay configurable
<cyphermox> there was a bit of discussion on the exact process for emailing yesterday in #u-release... robru?
<cyphermox> ah, Laney's there.
<slangasek> configurable by whom / how?
<robru> Hmm?
<bdmurray> Laney: it comments on the bugs purported to be fixed by the SRU if its in -proposed for > 90 days or so
<Laney>  - Blocked packages, of which SRUs all are, won't trigger emails, so need to deal with that somehow
<Laney> slangasek: in the britney.conf, so by b1
<bdmurray> So it doesn't directly email the uploader
<slangasek> Laney: ok, so configured per-suite, not per-package or per-uploader; fair
<robru> We could make the threshold configurable in britney.conf, devel could be set to 3 days and stable could be set to 14 days or something
<slangasek> robru: where did 3 days come from?
<slangasek> changing the configuration for devel isn't on the table here :)
<Laney> run
<slangasek> Laney: ?
<robru> slangasek: i decreased devel from 1 to 3 days because Laney wouldn't merge it with such a short repetition frequency
<bdmurray> maybe its not a change slangasek and it's already 3 days!
<slangasek> robru: but the first mail still comes out after 1 day?
<robru> slangasek: no, the current email schedule for devel is day 3, 6, 12, 24, 48, 78, 108...
<slangasek> robru: ok, that wasn't what we discussed, please change it back to sending the first mail at 1 day and *I'll* merge it
<robru> slangasek: should i just make it configurable?
<slangasek> robru: that's orthogonal
<robru> slangasek: but why would i submit one branch to change it from 3 to 1, and then submit a second branch that makes it configurable? I can just make it configurable and then that solves both problems
<slangasek> robru: because we haven't defined what all is configurable, and I want the devel thing fixed today :)
<robru> slangasek: i can have a configuration branch submitted today
<slangasek> robru: that is not the same as having the configuration branch reviewed, agreed, and merged today
<robru> slangasek: ok I'll submit a 1-day-mail branch after breakfast then
<slangasek> robru: thanks
<slangasek> as for SRUs
<Laney> robru: I think you need to restore the 1 or 5 thing
<robru> Sigh
<slangasek> where have we gotten to?
<Laney> if you're doing that
<slangasek> 1-or-5?
<Laney> 1 if excuse.is_valid else 5
<Laney> or the other way around, I forget
<robru> The other way
<robru> I can't even remember why that existed
<Laney> for things blocked at update_output.txt time, which need to be given more time
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> seems fair
<robru> Do those things really take more time? Isn't that just installability checks which would be known right away? Why does that take extra time?
<slangasek> but I don't think we're converging on a plan for SRUs
<Laney> you often have to sort out other packages
<slangasek> so can we table this until after the meeting and take it up in #ubuntu-release?
<infinity> It *can* take extra time, or it *might* be an indication of a bug.
<Laney> it'll still be a bug in 5 days
<slangasek> (US table, not UK table)
<infinity> Failing in output checks doesn't necessarily mean a transition, it might be that you broke something. :P
<Laney> ok, let's do that
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<rbalint> slangasek: i was about to ask about the libssl 1.0.2 transition for zeisty
<infinity> When is our team pony coming?
<slangasek> rbalint: we are not transitioning to 1.0.2 for zesty
<rbalint> ok
<infinity> We carry a delta specifically to prevent transitioning.
<rbalint> there are some packages on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/zesty/update_excuses.html which depend on 1.0.2
<slangasek> rbalint: xnox had taken the lead on that, maybe send an email to the list to ask about plans for 17.10
<slangasek> rbalint: transgui?
<slangasek> that one's a mess and we don't need to spend time fixing it this cycle
<cyphermox> yep transgui
<rbalint> and a few others
<slangasek> it should self-fix once we upgrade openssl
<rbalint> but they don't seem to be important indeed
<rbalint> i'm looking for important packages to fix on excuses list
<slangasek> rbalint: hopefully most of the "important" ones aren't stuck there; but we still want to clean up -proposed as much as possible.  It's just that for a package that is synced from Debian and needs no changes to be eventually correct, no clean-up is really needed (transgui)
<slangasek> anything else?
<cyphermox> I suppose looking at main mainly might be good, but as you said, the cleanup in general is important
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 23 15:43:09 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-03-23-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<rbalint> i remember a page for debian's testing migration which ordered blocked packages by the number and importance of other packages waiting for it
<rbalint> but I can't find it now
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-19
<tyhicks> hello
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves
<leosilva> szia!
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 19 16:38:18 2018 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows:
<tyhicks> CVE Triage: sarnold, Bug Triage: ratliff, Community: sbeattie, Happy Place: mdeslaur, leosilva
<tyhicks> We've had several contributions since the last meeting:
<tyhicks> Simon Deziel provided debdiffs for xenial-artful for tor (LP: #1731698)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1731698 in tor (Ubuntu Artful) "[SRU] Tor 0.2.9.14 and 0.3.0.13" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731698
<tyhicks> Philip Rinn provided a debdiff for artful for qtpass (LP: #1747954)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1747954 in qtpass (Ubuntu) "qtpass generates possibly predictable and enumerable passwords" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1747954
<tyhicks> Emmet Hikory (persia) provided debdiffs for xenial-artful for mosquitto (LP: #1752591)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1752591 in mosquitto (Ubuntu Bionic) "CVE-2017-7651 and CVE-2017-7652" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752591
<tyhicks> Thanks to the three of you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> Finally, a personal announcement:
<tyhicks> This is my last day on the Ubuntu Security Team :/
<tyhicks> I'll be moving over to the kernel team but will still have a large focus on security
<tyhicks> The security team is a group of talented and wonderful people and I'll miss working so closely with all of them on a day to day basis
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
 * jdstrand hugs tyhicks 
 * tyhicks hugs jdstrand 
 * mdeslaur hugs tyhicks 
 * tyhicks hugs mdeslaur 
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks for all you've done for the team over the years. I look forward to continuing to work closely with you :)
 * mdeslaur throws coffee at kernel team
<tyhicks> :)
<leosilva> tyhicks:  tks for all the fishes and shared knowledged dude
<jdstrand> ok, I'll go now
<tyhicks> thanks leosilva :)
<jdstrand> - short week this week (off Friday)
<jdstrand> - email catchup from last week (tons of email)
<jdstrand> - I'm hesitant to say what I plan to work on this week since I haven't read the snap forum email yet, but can say I plan to be responsive to urgent PR reviews, particularly surrounding 18.04 desktop priorities. I expect reviews for portals, layouts and steam
<jdstrand> - process/prioritize sprint outcomes
<jdstrand> - go down the trello backlog as have time
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I just published some php updates
<mdeslaur> and I'm working on bunch of other stuff, see ppa for goodies
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the community role this week
<sbeattie> I have paramiko and openjdk updates to publish
<sbeattie> I am still working on retpoline backports for gcc-4.6
<sbeattie> I also have some kernel cve triage tasks to catch up on.
<sbeattie> and that will probably consume my week
<sbeattie> tyhicks (for the last time :( ):
<tyhicks> I'm cleaning out my desk and trying to wrap up things
<tyhicks> I just merged apparmor 2.12-4 from Debian
<tyhicks> I'll be looking at a busted autopkgtest in the docker.io package that's preventing apparmor uploads from migrating
<tyhicks> I need to leave one last internal documentation trail
<tyhicks> I think that's about it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I have a short week, I am off tuesday
<jjohansen> I am poking at an LXD issue with apparmor https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/4340
<jjohansen> and following up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1755563
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1755563 in linux (Ubuntu Bionic) "dangling symlinks to loaded apparmor policy" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jjohansen> and I am still working my way through the newest iteration of the LSM stacking patches that dropped last week
<jjohansen> I expect that will take the rest of my week
<jjohansen> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week; I'm still working down the list of MIRs, uvloop is up first
<sarnold> it's a short week for me, I'm off friday
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm just finishing off rust / cargo updates. I'm also expecting thunderbird updates this week
<chrisccoulson> Fingers crossed for no other updates
<chrisccoulson> I also need to start looking at gcc6.4 and node for firefox :(
<mdeslaur> :(
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I've got 2 embargoed issues and one internal thing to work on
<chrisccoulson> that's me don
<chrisccoulson> *e
<tyhicks> Emily is out today
<tyhicks> leosilva: you're up
<leosilva> I'm the happy place
<leosilva> I'm doing my pkg hunting as usual, that's it from me.
<leosilva> tyhicks: last time it's back to you :P
<tyhicks> thanks!
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<tyhicks> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, leosilva: Thanks and don't have too much fun without me!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 19 16:56:40 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-19-16.38.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks <3
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<leosilva> tks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks for everything! *hug*
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks!
<jdstrand> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-22
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 15:01:44 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<sil2100> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther juliank)
<slangasek> bdmurray Odd_Bloke cyphermox mwhudson tribaal juliank fginther doko sil2100 infinity rcj philroche rbalint slangasek tdaitx xnox
<slangasek> bdmurray: hullo
 * xnox wins
<bdmurray> hey
<bdmurray> updated daisy job to remove core files and corresponding RT
<bdmurray> further testing of gdb retrace hang
<bdmurray> special SRU reviews for coreycb
<bdmurray> discussion with seb128 re: Error Tracker and LP crash differences
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding whoopsie and obscurity of report_crashes
<bdmurray> discussion with seb128 re: JournalErrors attachment
<bdmurray> worked with webops to get daisy updated and cores dumped
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u with larger small saftey buffer for initramfs
<bdmurray> reviewed + merged community member u-r-u change re kdesudo
<bdmurray> review of software-properties canonical livepatch changes
<bdmurray> investigation into / testing of plymouth --ping hang
<bdmurray> done
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> ochosi_:
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke:
<slangasek> I believe Odd_Bloke is not here
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> well, he missed his chance!
<cyphermox> - MIR reviews: pymacaroons, volume-key, libu2f-host, chrome-gnome-shell, ujson,
<cyphermox> pyxs, rax-nova-agent
<cyphermox> - reviewed ubiquity-slideshow merges
<cyphermox> - verifying SRU bugs for netplan
<cyphermox> - preparing netplan 0.34.1 (bugfix)
<cyphermox> - finishing up on shim-signed for self-signed MOK updates
<cyphermox> - fixed finish-install leaving behind a /etc/network/interfaces
<cyphermox> - implementing 'netplan try'
<cyphermox> - trying not to pass out from this cold in general
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> tribaal:
<tribaal> * worked on getting minimal images on cloud-image.ubuntu.com (under way, good progress already)
<tribaal> * Having fun with grub2 packagin and the FFe process for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1754586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754586 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[FFe request] Enable booting initrd-less with fallback" [Undecided,New]
<tribaal> (done)
<juliank> * scratching my head at (and poked guillem about) bug #1512322 and bug #1750465
<ubottu> bug 1512322 in dpkg (Ubuntu Bionic) "dpkg assert failure: dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:245: process_queue:" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512322
<juliank> * poked people to resend zstd initramfs patches for kernel :)
<ubottu> bug 1750465 in ubuntu-mate-artwork (Ubuntu Artful) "upgrade attempting to process triggers out of order (package plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text 0.9.2-3ubuntu17 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1750465
<juliank> * ubuntu-release-upgrader: fix for bug #1725359
<ubottu> bug 1725359 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release detection relies on lsb-release" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1725359
<juliank> * switched changelogs.ubuntu.com to HTTPS (especially for metarelease files in u-r-u, update-manager, bug #1744318); also for changelogs in apt (not uploaded yet)
<ubottu> bug 1744318 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "changelogs.ubuntu.com should be using HTTPS" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744318
<juliank> * adjusted IS firewall for autopkgtest to allow HTTPS access to changelogs.u.c....
<juliank> * fix crash in PackageKit (bug #1754265)
<ubottu> bug 1754265 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "packagekitd crashed with SIGSEGV in utilBuildPackageId()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754265
<juliank> * looked at slangasek's kernel autoremoval situation (bug #1757529)
<ubottu> bug 1757529 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt: after reboot, still wants to keep 3 kernels when it should only keep 2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1757529
<juliank> * help figuring out solution to autopkgtest being broken for lot of (python-)apt-based tests
<juliank> (done)
<fginther> * 2 days of Cloud Partner visits
<fginther> * Enabled build-discarder for jenkaas jobs
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<fginther> * More progress on automated jenkins build failure analysis
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> doko:
<sil2100> Is doko around for the meeting?
<xnox> nope
<xnox> he is at linaro connect
<sil2100> So me \o/
<sil2100> - Partially AFK on Friday
<sil2100> - FFe reviews
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Testing of some additional --auto-nvram grub2 changes
<sil2100> - Looking into cxlflash packaging
<sil2100> - Attaching diffstat output to kernel-sru-review diffs
<sil2100> - MP for diffstat-addition for sru-review (got feedback, need to get back to it)
<sil2100> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * updating tooling for minimal image stream indexing (automation not in place)
<rcj> * triaging bug #1754030
<ubottu> bug 1754030 in cloud-images "Ubuntu vmdk fails to boot with hardware virtualization version 11" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754030
<rcj> * various cloud-image partner work
<rcj> (done)
<bdmurray> philroche:
<slangasek> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * (highlight) remove old kernels in update-manager, too: LP: #1624644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1624644 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu Artful) "By default settings unattended-upgrade does not automatically remove packages that become unused in conjunction with updating by other software" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624644
<rbalint> * prepare Bionic WSL appx for testing
<rbalint> * test and propose (on ubuntu-devel) LZ4 as initramfs compressor LP: #1488620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1488620 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Add LZ4 support" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488620
<rbalint> (done)
<slangasek>  * continued archive work / +1 maintenance; hunting down lots of packages that were synced at beginning of cycle and never made it out of -proposed
<slangasek>  * discussions around UEFI support on clouds
<slangasek>  * upgraded desktop to 18.04 and filed a few bugs
<slangasek>  * autopkgtest infra:
<slangasek>   * deploy autopkgtest from a branch we control, not from an upstream import
<slangasek>   * revert some upstream changes to fix python-apt autopkgtests due to APT::Default-Release
<slangasek>  * uploaded plymouth to fix a trigger-related upgrade issue (LP: #1750465)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1750465 in ubuntu-mate-artwork (Ubuntu Artful) "upgrade attempting to process triggers out of order (package plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text 0.9.2-3ubuntu17 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1750465
<slangasek>  * off next Thursday and Friday
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 9 as default JDK
<tdaitx>   - more fixes
<tdaitx>   - syncing and testing updates from Debian
<tdaitx>   - prepared new follow-up email, waiting review
<tdaitx>   - getting gettext's msgfmt working as it causes other packages to FTBFS
<tdaitx>   - db5.3 is the only main package that still FTBFS, candidate for b-dep on openjdk-8-jre
<tdaitx>   - 2 important packages FTBFS in universe: maven-debian-helper and
<tdaitx> maven-bundle-plugin (alioth has fixes, under test)
<tdaitx> (done)
<xnox> db5.3 -> me is sad
<xnox> â¢ split libicu60 to have less dependencies, thus making our minimal chroot even shmaller
<xnox> â¢ upgraded python-pyvmomi to new upstream release in bionic
<xnox> â¢ systemd SRUs are published
<xnox> â¢ noticed dovecot adt regression from above, uploaded fix
<xnox> â¢ noticed mariadb adt regression from above, uploaded fix
<xnox> â¢ fixed up livecd-rootfs fix for minimal images
<xnox> â¢ ruby transition is done
<xnox> â¢ u2f-host SRU for udev rules done
<xnox> â¢ upgrading windows VM to test newer APPX
<xnox> done
<slangasek> *(db5.3->me)?
<slangasek> xnox: heh, that provoked me to look at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/priority-mismatches.html, and I see something is now trying to pull build-essential into important
<slangasek> ok, questions over status?
<fginther> xnox, is that python-pyvmomi available in a PPA?
<rcj> fginther: bionic should just be in the archive, right?
<fginther> right, but I expect it will take a few days to get there
<rcj> rmadison says NOW!
<fginther> oh, nvm then
<slangasek> "a few days" - only in case of errors
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<slangasek> a shorter list than last week, that's nice
<bdmurray> there are a couple of new ones
<bdmurray> bug 1755192
<ubottu> bug 1755192 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Running add-apt-repository inside docker bionic container gives No such file or directory: 'S.gpg-agent.browser'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755192
<juliank> nice
<juliank> ugh
<slangasek> xnox: ^^ sounds like that's related to the gpg rejigger, what does add-apt-repository need?
<xnox> fginther, nah, just bionic universe
<juliank> it should not need a gpg-agent
<xnox> slangasek, yeah, i should look into it.
<slangasek> claimed
<bdmurray> Does anybody feel like a decision has been made regarding bug 1756446?
<ubottu> bug 1756446 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Include JournalErrors.txt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756446
<bdmurray> Well, I really mean what JournalErrors.txt should include not sending it to whoopsie.
<slangasek> I don't think a decision has been made yet
<slangasek> bdmurray: maybe you want to drive the list discussion to a conclusion?
<slangasek> I have no strong opinion here; I argued for only including errors based on the filename
<bdmurray> Okay maybe I will.
<slangasek> ok :)
<bdmurray> jibel brought up bug 1756862
<ubottu> bug 1756862 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 - apt-clone crashed with SystemError in commit(): installArchives() failed" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756862
<bdmurray> Isn't that the ubiquity upgrade code though?
<juliank> _something_ failed to install I'd say, it's a traceback in apt-clone
<bdmurray> Didn't I talk about dropping it at one point in time?
<slangasek> I don't recall
 * juliank does not see the need for it
<slangasek> it does seem to be via the ubiquity upgrade option
<xnox> i'm up for dropping that too....
<bdmurray> xnox: I think it was to you I mentioned dropping it
<slangasek> at one point, ubiquity's upgrade option was the best way to cross-migrate from i386 to amd64
<xnox> hahahhaha
<juliank> just hide the button in the UI file -> problem solved :D
<xnox> slangasek, and soon to cross-migrate from amd64 to arm64, right? wait, no, one needs a new laptop
<slangasek> yeah, I was going to say that if the option is broken it's better to hide it
<slangasek> but I think it's worth a little bit of effort to see what's happening here
<slangasek> xnox: but the disk interfaces are the same ;)
<juliank> we need a better hook to add term.log and friends for apt-clone I think...
<bdmurray> that's all I wanted to raise
<slangasek> xnox: do you think we should take LP: #1742903?  (do you agree with the bug?)
<bdmurray> juliank: that'd be good I'm not certain how to detect ubiquity upgrades though
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1742903 in intel-microcode (Ubuntu) "Microcode updates require a reboot to apply, but package postinst doesn't touch /run/reboot-required" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742903
<xnox> slangasek, yes.
<slangasek> ok, taking
<xnox> slangasek, but it may need to be more smart; e.g. check the new microcode revisions vs currently loaded; to see if there was an update to microcode for this system, actually.
<slangasek> anything else from that list today?
<slangasek> xnox: ok please put that comment on the bug?
<bdmurray> I think we should just pass on 1749546 again
<juliank> xnox: Even a dumb one is better than none...
<juliank> :D
<bdmurray> Oh I mean 1631098
<juliank> but would be nice
<slangasek> bdmurray: if there are no other bug reports coming in right now about it, yeah, seems reasonable to punt
<slangasek> bdmurray: at least it probably shouldn't be on our "must be done for 18.04" list?
<slangasek> perhaps I should put it on trello and we can drop it from the release tracking list?
<rbalint> imo errors=replace would be better
<juliank> abythubg is better than ignore
<slangasek> juliank's text brought to you by errors=transpose
<rbalint> slangasek: i replied but it was buggy, thus dropped :-(
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> nope
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 22 15:42:17 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-03-22-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<tdaitx> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<rbalint> thanks!
<ahoneybun> any meeting today jose ?
<ahoneybun> elacheche, ?
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-03-25
<soshiant> i want link download repository for ubuntu trusty
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-19
<cpaelzer> preping for doko cyphermox didrocks jamespage and jdstrand
<cpaelzer> since most of us missed the meeting last few times and today we have something to discuss  (plus being in the week were daylight savings disagree) I thought it is worth to pre-ping :-)
<didrocks> cpaelzer: ahah, almost :)
<cpaelzer> :-)
<cpaelzer> but now ...
<didrocks> should be now
<cpaelzer> I'm actually fine if no one has objections on the email that I sent about the many mailman3 triggered MIRs
<cpaelzer> but doko correctly mentioned that it feels odd that the same person files and acks them
<cpaelzer> so we wanted to discuss how to handle at least some of these
<cpaelzer> lets give everyone some time to show up
<cyphermox> tbh I'd prefer if you just wrote whatever you want to write, so I can pay attention but we don't need to block on anyone
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: well I wrote what I wanted to write (in the mail on Friday)
<cpaelzer> and I summarized above what doko wanted to discuss
<cpaelzer> my initial approach was: I will handle all the more trivial MIRs that I opened, and for the more complex cases (or those that I think a Nack is needed or likely) I'd pull one of you in
<cpaelzer> as mentioned doko said this morning to me that it feels odd that the same guy opens and Acks them
<cpaelzer> that is it, opinions about this?
<cyphermox> if it's a trivial thing; no
<cyphermox> if it feels like there might be contention, then I suppose yeah asking for help is a good plan
<didrocks> yeah, I always refused to be the person NEWing new packages I upload or ACKing MIR I filed
<didrocks> it's a little bit like a peer review, never a bad thing to have another person keeping you honest :)
 * doko is late 
<cpaelzer> well I'm not NEWing the packages they are in Debian/Ubuntu for quite a while, I'm just driving the MIR bugs as requestor and first level reviewer
<cpaelzer> and I already spread the creation of the MIR requests in our team
<cpaelzer> Here is a list of all the involved packages and MIR bugs https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+git/mailman3-MIR-party/tree/package-list.txt
<cpaelzer> I'm trying to make the biggest problems to go away by cutting the dependency to e.g. nodejs and ruby bits
<cpaelzer> therefore those have no bugs assigned to the Team yet
<doko> right, but in the past, the MIR bug submitter was the same as the MIR author
<didrocks> sounds like a MIR list similar the old unity time ;)
<cpaelzer> yeah didrocks, might be
<cpaelzer> a bit smaller thou I guess
<didrocks> cpaelzer: I can only sympathize :)
<cpaelzer> so how about letting me doing the first run on all of these - and next week same time we can dirstibute the more interesting cases that are left in the Team
<didrocks> sounds good to me
<cpaelzer> this would keep the majority of blunt processing from you, but get your opinions and insights on the cases where it is needed
<cpaelzer> unless you distrust me that I silently bypass something
<cpaelzer> in that case I'm very happy to -not- do all those reviews :-)
<doko> I can certainly help with stuff
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: the only thing that jumps out to me is nose
<cyphermox> it was previously in main
<cyphermox> I'd be for not dropping the dep; avoiding delta, and just putting it back in main.
<doko> are the S tags complete?
<doko> we should get these done first
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: I'm ok with handling nose that way - thanks
<cpaelzer> doko: the S tags got on the security Teams list just today
<cpaelzer> more S tagged packages will come
<cyphermox> ah, and one more thing; how about we decide right now if it's mailman3 or mailman3 + hyperkitty, whatever that is?
<cpaelzer> it is all of them mailman3-full is the package starting the dependency tree
<cpaelzer> we discussed that in the Team upfront and later in Malta
<cyphermox> ah ok
<cpaelzer> the problem is that only core (tag C) or core+archive (tags C+H) is not what people would want to use
<cpaelzer> you want a ML with frontent or you don't want a mailing list at all
<cpaelzer> not promoting all of mailman3-full was just one of the options we evaluated in the past
<cpaelzer> thanks for the hint on nose cyphermox - I'll give that a check later on
<cyphermox> well, it depends what the server team feels comfortable supporting I guess
<cpaelzer> but it is nose(1) not nose2 - was that in main as well?
<cyphermox> src:nose is what I looked up in rmadison
<cpaelzer> yeah that is the right one
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> I'l do the paperwork and updates in regard to that
<cpaelzer> and as I said, I hope that next week by that time the list is down to those that I need your help on anyway
<cpaelzer> ok it seems that works for everyone then
<cpaelzer> doko: are you ok with distributing only those among the team next week then?
<cpaelzer> doko: can we take no answer as a yes and conclude until next weeks meeting?
 * cpaelzer thinks doko is busy building two more glibc updates for Disco
<doko> cpaelzer: sorry, phone call. yes, sounds fine
<cpaelzer> ok, thanks
<donofrio> dang missed the metting wanted to know how do I get inxi to be inxi 3.0.32-00 (2019-02-07) to be included with 19.04?
<sarnold> donofrio: what's different between 3.0.32-00 and the 3.0.31-1-1 that's packaged? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inxi/3.0.32-1-1
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-20
<guiverc> anyone [else] here?
<guiverc> no quorum again :(
<ahasenack> what's the meeting?
<guiverc> membership application
<guiverc> (ubuntu)
<donofrio> sarnold, probably nothing, I was unaware that it was in univeral (yet to have updated sources.list yet....yah work comes first lol)
<sarnold> donofrio: aha! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-03-21
<sil2100> o/
 * vorlon waves
<juliank> o\
<tdaitx> o>
<waveform> \o
<rbalint> o/
<xnox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 21 15:03:41 2019 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<xnox> $ echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<xnox> mwhudson doko xnox bdmurray cyphermox sil2100 juliank infinity rbalint vorlon tdaitx waveform
<xnox> doko, ?
 * xnox goes to fix the script to not have mwhudson it in.
<doko> - more openjdk-11-transition work
<doko> - new OpenJDK upstreams: 8u202, 8u212, Openjdk 12 ga, OpenJDK 11.0.3+4, OpenJDK 13
<doko> - Help tracking down https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8221083
<doko> - Fix PR jit/87808, backport fix for PR tree-optimization/89505
<doko> - GCC 9 update
<doko> - 360s
<doko> (done)
<xnox> * made fuse-zip fail on all arches, instead of just s390x!
<xnox>   - possibly a way out here is more patches to fuse
<xnox>   - why did we merge fuse, past DebianImportFreeze?!
<xnox> * openssl backports discussions with security/pat
<xnox> * working on unbreaking subiquity on power/serial
<xnox> * waiting on ibm to continue optimized atlas builds for z13/z14
<xnox> * vorlon, still awaiting openssl 1.1.1 accept into
<xnox>   bionic-proposed. All feedback responded to....
<xnox>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssl/+bug/1797386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797386 in openssl (Ubuntu) "[SRU] OpenSSL 1.1.1 to 18.04 LTS" [Undecided,In progress]
<xnox> * on holidays next week â·ï¸
<xnox> (done)
<xnox> bdmurray,
<bdmurray> converted two ET cronjobs from pycassa to python cassandra
<bdmurray> submitted RT, mojo spec MP regarding update of daisy to r824 in prod ET
<bdmurray> modified the above RT to also include updating apport to r3227 see below
<bdmurray> discovered an issue with how apport calls gdb fixed in r3227
<bdmurray> submitted RT, mojo spec MP regarding update of daisy to r826 in prod ET
<bdmurray> review of rls-dd-incoming bug tasks
<bdmurray> submitted PR for metrics and jobs w/ a metric for retracers-results
<bdmurray> submitted PR for metrics and jobs w/ a metric for retracer-avg-process time
<bdmurray> created some test graphs of the above
<bdmurray> reviewed, merged, uploaded xnox's u-r-u lintian fixes for disco
<bdmurray> review of netplan SRU exception
<bdmurray> special SRU review of keystone, python-ldappool
<sil2100> cyphermox
<sil2100> Oh, or did bdmurray not finish?
<bdmurray> I did finish
<vorlon> xnox: yeah, haven't had any SRU day time since last we discussed
<xnox> vorlon, ack.
<xnox> sil2100, go
<sil2100> No cyphermox ?
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - A lot of new kernel reviews (new cycle)
<sil2100> - Some package approvals for the OpenJDK-11 transition
<sil2100> - Review of the pi spec
<sil2100> - Reviews and infrastructure help for ubuntu-canary
<sil2100> - Helping out with an iproute2 backports upload
<sil2100> - Few FFe reviews
<sil2100> - Shepherding disco first set of language-pack delta updates
<sil2100> - Fixing kernel-sru-review to handle kernel backports of flavor kernels without crashing
<sil2100> - 360
<sil2100> - core18:
<cyphermox> gah, sorry, I'm here
<sil2100>   * Finalized gadget snap code branch location and permissions
<sil2100>   * Moar work on core18 promotion - scripts almost there, only the jenkins job needed
<sil2100>   * Backporting missing change from core for support of out-of-core18 wpa-supplicant (PR)
<sil2100>   * Modified version number to include the date (and thinking about that a bit)
<sil2100>   * Checked status of snap prepare-image for classic seeding
<sil2100> - Tomorrow: out-of-office o/
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> cyphermox, go
<cyphermox> shim review: attempting to review OpenSuSE / tumbleweed / SLES shims; hard to even get a build env working to begin with
<cyphermox> shim review: partial review of Debian's shims for ia32, x64, aa64. We're gaining an additional contributor to reviewing shims too yay!
<cyphermox> uploaded grub2 SRUs for http module + debconf prompts (LP: #1787630) (LP: #564853)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1787630 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Include HTTP support in pre-build GRUB module" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787630
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564853 in grub2 (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Spurious conffile prompts for /etc/default/grub" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564853
<cyphermox> added mmx64.efi to d-i images (and will end up on dailies) to better address Secure Boot configuration for unfinished installs (LP: #1798171)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798171 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Disco) "System fails to boot with \EFI\BOOT\mmx64.efi - Not Found" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798171
<cyphermox> initial review of netplan wireguard support PR
<cyphermox> revived netplan PR#34: "openvswitch support" - allow networkd to bring up devices without addresses / unconfigured but IFF_UP.
<cyphermox> netplan roadmap: prioritizing next features to implement
<cyphermox> paperwork for design / user stories for new netplan features
<cyphermox> I still need help to get the netplan.io SRUs reviewed in the bionic, cosmic queues
<cyphermox> fwiw I'm looking now at why the dailies don't yet have mmx64.efi as I thought they would; which is why I was unresponsive, deep hack mode looking at mark-pending-current and such
<cyphermox> (done)
<xnox> cyphermox, mark-pending-current.... interesting, i wonder if ci jobs are fialing.
<cyphermox> they def are
<xnox> juliank, !
<juliank> (short week, OoO on monday)
<juliank> * (last Fri) Re-verified APT SRUs
<juliank> * ESM UX review
<juliank> * Some PackageKit merge review
<juliank> * Improve PackageKit error handling (https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/pull/321)
<juliank> * Tighten APT dependencies on its own libs (https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/merge_requests/56)
<juliank> * Rebase APT proposed update branches against master and do some more stringview cleanup
<juliank> * More ESM UX bikeshedding
<juliank> * Analysis of aptdaemon use in software-properties
<juliank> * First stab at PackageKit driver installs in software-properties-gtk - (updates works already)
<juliank>   - Not sure about QApt vs PackageKit in the Qt backend
<juliank> (also: apt-side of ESM stuff landed everywhere today, woohoo!)
<juliank> (done)
<xnox> infinity is not in the channel...
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fixed script bzr -> git conversion script to handle software-properties' repo
<rbalint> * converted and switched software-properties project to git
<rbalint> * prepared sru patches for systemd-detect-virt wsl detection
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * fixing unattended-upgrades bugs, I'm finalizing tests and push the changes later today
<rbalint> (done)
<vorlon>  * short week, was off last Friday
<xnox> vorlon,
<vorlon>  * legwork for fips vs secureboot
<vorlon>  * discussions around UC20 roadmap
<vorlon>  * discussing netplan roadmap for 19.10
<vorlon>  * looked at snap seeding and core18 coming into the disco desktop images
<vorlon>  * worked with xnox to fix modules.squashfs the right way around (in debian-cd)
<vorlon>  * next week: off (spring break)
<vorlon> (done)
<xnox> tdaitx,
<tdaitx> * openjdk-11 bionic security transition
<tdaitx>   - gradle test and fixes (LP: #1820389, LP: #1797761, Debian: #925225)
<tdaitx>   - geogebra update for Bionic
<tdaitx>   - investigated LP: #1803855 in gradle/groovy but that requires a new groovy update and that is not happening any time soon
<tdaitx>   - following up on android-tools (LP: #1820513)
<tdaitx>   - quick check on an octave update for bionic for better openjdk-11 support, but that would require a soversion update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820389 in gradle (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Gradle on OpenJDK 8: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: java.lang.invoke.MethodHandles.privateLookupIn()" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820389
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 packaged and uploaded for review by security team
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1797761 in gradle (Ubuntu) "Gradle 4.4.1 package missing alternative dep to Java8" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797761
<ubottu> Debian bug 925225 in gradle "gradle: Fix gradle compatibility with OpenJDK 8" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/925225
<tdaitx> Other:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803855 in gradle (Ubuntu) "Illegal reflective access operation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803855
<tdaitx> - 360 fun
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1820513 in android-platform-tools-base (Ubuntu) "android-* packages not working well with OpenJDK 11" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1820513
<tdaitx> - working some odd hours this and the next weeks (gym on Mon/Fri afternoon + apartment renovation^Wproblems going on)
<tdaitx> - happy 321 holidays!
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> waveform: go!
<waveform> * More work on pi spec (answering reviews)
<waveform> * SRU for RPi.GPIO to bionic
<waveform> * RPi.GPIO fixes accepted upstream; tested updated package on ubuntu under aarch64
<waveform> * ITP colorzero to Debian (new dep of gpiozero)
<waveform> * Reading up on live-build (overlays for pi configuration hacks)
<waveform> * Worked on first boot design (3 scenarios to support)
<waveform> * Experimented with seeding cloud-init from boot partition on the pi
<waveform> * piwheels configuration for ubuntu (ongoing)
<waveform> (done)
<xnox> Any status questions?
<xnox> #topic Release incoming bugs (disco)
<xnox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (disco)
<bdmurray> I went ahead and set the importance for all the rls-dd-incoming
<bdmurray> bug 1790205
<ubottu> bug 1790205 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd journals take up too much space, aren't vacuumed automatically" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1790205
<xnox> bdmurray, so... depending on how big ones instalation is, one will have bigger or smaller journal usage.
<bdmurray> I was surprised to find 4G of logs on my system
<xnox> bdmurray, so if people have large hard drive, you will have gigs of logs.
<xnox> bdmurray, is it more than what journal declares to be the limit? one sec:
<bdmurray> xnox: and if my hard drive becomes small because of the logs then what happens?
<xnox> bdmurray, $ journalctl -b -u systemd-journald.service -n 1
<xnox> -- Logs begin at Mon 2018-09-17 14:21:50 BST, end at Thu 2019-03-21 15:16:25 GMT. --
<xnox> Mar 21 11:27:37 ottawa systemd-journald[571]: System journal (/var/log/journal/1b8df0fa27039f0163586c6756a6d401) is 3.7G, max 4.0G, 231.6M free.
<xnox> for me, the max is 4G, and it's below that at the moment, so that is working correct.
<xnox> if logs are more, than max, that would be a bug, so far i have not seen anybody, prove that limits are neither in place, nor observed.
<xnox> bdmurray, what does above say for you?
<bdmurray> Mar 19 07:50:32 impulse systemd-journald[608]: System journal (/var/log/journal/5daa40091e7e4b6fa27e6439f0a48bdc) is 3.9G, max 4.0G, 23.8M free
<xnox> bdmurray, or is it the case that 4GB is "omg logs grow uncontrollable"
<xnox> bdmurray, so you are definately capped already.
<xnox> $ journalctl --disk-usage
<xnox> Archived and active journals take up 3.7G in the file system.
<xnox> so maybe --disk-usage, should state the max, and free, like it does on startup.
<vorlon> sounds sensible
<xnox> vorlon, ^
<xnox> ok.
<vorlon> I do think 4GB sounds like a surprisingly large amount for logs however
<vorlon> is there so much more data in journals vs. traditional syslog that we need to allocate more space?
<juliank> "Archived and active journals take up 4.0G in the file system." for me
<tdaitx> mar 18 21:44:34 tdaitx-P65 systemd-journald[32600]: System journal (/var/log/journal/e0e3d1032c874b5ba18c951f8ae3cbfa) is 1.0G, max 1.0G, 0B free.
<tdaitx> Archived and active journals take up 1.0G in the file system.
<tdaitx> but I set it to 1G in journald.conf
<tdaitx> SystemMaxUse=1G
<xnox> $ journalctl | grep gnome-shell
<juliank> ^ gnome-shell sucks
<vorlon> my thinking here is that the journal should be rotating by date.  Because if something's going on /currently/ that makes the logs balloon, we should keep those (up to the limit), but I don't think we should let systemd consistently fill up a fixed amount of space on disk
<juliank> MaxRetentionSec=1m
<juliank> and MaxFileSec control that
<vorlon> my desktop has a 1.3G journal on a 12G rootfs.  is that going to grow up to 4G?  (How do I check on cosmic the limit?)
<vorlon> ah found it
<vorlon> Mar 12 11:01:49 virgil systemd-journald[6237]: System journal (/var/log/journal/c856e8839ee179de1933c6264c9c4260) is 1.2G, max 1.1G, 0B free.
<rbalint> vorlon, it used to be the case but time just correlates with log size, while log size is the cost paid for the logs on systems thus size base limit fits the cost better and now it can proberly be enforced
<xnox> vorlon, that looks buggy. because 1.2 is more than 1.1
<vorlon> xnox: I notice!
<xnox> vorlon, that is worth filing a bug.
<rbalint> before journald size based limits could not have been enforced thus time-based was the best heuristics
<juliank> 10% max used, 15% min free
<xnox> vorlon, and it's not weird variable size fs, right ? i.e. compressed btrfs?
<juliank> each capped to 4 GB
<vorlon> xnox: haha no
<xnox> ok
<bdmurray> The --disk-usage switch gave me a different number than the system journal did too
<juliank> it likely grew at boot, and then vacuumed later and it got down?
<bdmurray> System journal (/var/log/journal/5daa40091e7e4b6fa27e6439f0a48bdc) is 3.9G
<bdmurray> Archived and active journals take up 4.0G in the file system.
<xnox> well --disk-usage shoes the current size, i think, which might be both persistent (/var) and runtime (/run)
<gaughen> time to let it go for now
<gaughen> don't make me sing
<bdmurray> Okay, lets move on. xnox you'll follow up with the bug yes?
<gaughen> bdmurray, xnox is on vacation after tomorrow
<doko> no Hasselhoff?
<xnox> bdmurray, yes.
<xnox> bdmurray, doing typy typy now.
<bdmurray> bug 1807479 - there's a patch but why was this assinged to the team xnox?
<ubottu> bug 1807479 in system-config-kickstart (Ubuntu) "Hashed passwords stored as MD5 hashes in /etc/shadow" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1807479
<cyphermox> err
<cyphermox> system-config-kickstart?
<juliank> yo!
<bdmurray> We've decided that it doesn't need to be assigned to the team
<bdmurray> ando somebody'll have a look at the patch
<tdaitx> the fix seems correct anyway
<bdmurray> bug 1811694
<ubottu> bug 1811694 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "/usr/sbin/aptd:RuntimeError:_inline_callbacks:get_uid_from_dbus_name:return_value:_inline_callbacks:_check_simulated:_inline_callbacks" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811694
<bdmurray> there are hundreds of dupes of that in the error tracker
<juliank> make it go away!
<juliank> aah
<juliank> But yes, that seems like aptdaemon needs to be adapted to python 3.7 or something
<vorlon> bdmurray: +1 for accepting it and putting it on the backlog
<bdmurray> will do
<bdmurray> xnox: is bug 1815599 on your radar?
<ubottu> bug 1815599 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "multipath shows '#:#:#:#' for iscsi device after error injection" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1815599
<xnox> no
<xnox> bdmurray, i hope that like cpaelzer and/or server team can take it
<bdmurray> xnox: have you done more than hope?
<bdmurray> gaughen: you'll bring it up with the server team yes?
<gaughen> doing so right now
<vorlon> so we're not taking it for disco but we "hope" server team does? :)
<gaughen> vorlon, yes
<xnox> the last hope
<bdmurray> no, a new hope
<juliank> the final hope
<juliank> the meow hope
<bdmurray> bug 1798369
<ubottu> bug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798369
<cpaelzer> xnox: was not on my radar at all so far
<vorlon> the last best hope for mankind
<juliank> A unicorn's hope
<xnox> cpaelzer, can it be? i think it's "normal" to not recover the multipaths, but i might be wrong. they claim "it never recovers", or i think it does but "takes a while"
<gaughen> YES!
<cpaelzer> xnox: they didn't really answer to Frank, but I'll take a look
<xnox> cpaelzer, yeah, try to move it along, by sounding to have multipath knowledge
<cpaelzer> the great pretender ...
<bdmurray> I'll test the reinstall option and see if it still exists
<xnox> cool
<bdmurray> Okay, I think that's good for today.
<xnox> bdmurray, you might need to trick the iso to think it is disco final....
<xnox> bdmurray, by like bind-mounting final sounding things into .disk
<xnox> and /etc/os-release et.al.
<bdmurray> that sounds involved
<xnox> bdmurray, cause disco-on-disco will currently thinkg it is an upgrade from disco-to-19.04
<xnox> instead of 19.04-on-19.04 reinstall
<xnox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<xnox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<rbalint> u-u fix is on the way to unlock python-apt
<xnox> doko, do we need the new fuse?
<doko> there was a reason ...
<xnox> but the regression in fuse-zip is real
<xnox> so we shouldn't let new fuse in, as is at the moment.
<xnox> (as seen in the rebuild of fuse-zip, with new fuse support)
<xnox> nest up gdb/python3.7 kind of related
<xnox> python3.7 are blocked by openssl 1.1.1b compat (there is a bug report aobut that)
<doko> there's a new comment on the python issue
<xnox> but should we let gdb through then?
<xnox> (cause python3.X->gdb is openssl issues, and shouldn't block new gdb)
<xnox> rbalint, python-apt blocked by unattended-upgrades regressions. Did you look at that?
<rbalint> u-u fix is on the way to unlock python-apt
<doko> https://bugs.python.org/issue35998
<xnox> doko, fuse has uint/int abi bugs in the interface layear, which cuases hangs in fuse-zip testsuite, that hangs the VM.
<xnox> rbalint, great!
<xnox> re:perl -> there is progress in debian, the gdn/ndb regression compat is real, but we don't know if we care about acient dbs to be usable on new releases.
<xnox> i guess i should upload that into ubuntu direct, instead of waiting for the fixed up upload in debian.
<vorlon> why?  I don't think it's urgent
<vorlon> I think we should let the Debian maintainer fix it
<vorlon> unless we think that's not happening soon
<xnox> vorlon, well it is urgent as IBM observe it, in their testing of disco.
<xnox> vorlon, it was raised as a partner hwe issue.
<vorlon> it's buggy and they've identified the bug and it will be fixed by release
<xnox> ok.
<vorlon> I don't think IBM have said it's blocking them from testing other stuff, have they?
<xnox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<gaughen> no
<vorlon> none here
<xnox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 21 16:07:54 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-03-21-15.03.moin.txt
<xnox> running meetings is hard
<teward> i'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks so xnox XD
<xnox> vorlon, cyphermox - i nominate rbalint to run the next meeting.
<vorlon> :)
<xnox> that is my revenge.
<xnox> unicorn
<gaughen> :-)
<rbalint> xnox, revenge on whom ? :-)
<xnox> i'll keep that to myself.
<cyphermox> xnox: we should changet the meeting template so next chair selection is part of the meeting
<xnox> cyphermox, yes!
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-17
 * ddstreet getting coffee but present o/
<doko> o/
<sarnold> hello
<ddstreet> o/
<jamespage> o/
<doko> cpaelzer, didrocks: ping
<didrocks> hey
<doko> any volunteer to run the meeting?
<doko> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 17 14:09:32 2020 UTC.  The chair is doko. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<doko> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<doko> cpaelzer wanted to review the wiki pages, I assume we delay that to next week
 * didrocks has some notes to discuss on the wiki pages, but yeah, letâs wait for him
<doko> I didn't do https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ec2-instance-connect/+bug/1835114/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1835114 in ec2-instance-connect (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ec2-instance-connect" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<doko> anything else?
 * didrocks has done alsa-*, all good
<doko> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<doko> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<doko> ahasenack closed wrongly https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-maxminddb/+bug/1861101
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861101 in python-geoip2 (Ubuntu) "[MIR]: dependency of bind9" [Undecided,In progress]
<doko> I'll chat with andreas
<doko> ddstreet, didrocks: could one of yout do 1864667?
<ddstreet> i can take that one
<doko> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<doko> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<didrocks> nothing new if Iâm correct?
<doko> sarnold: could you ask raharper about 1835114?
<doko> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<sarnold> doko: yeah
<sarnold> why's pcp still in that long list?
<sarnold> I thought we finished that up before 18.04
<doko> jamespage: designate pulls in two new rdeps
<doko> apport/terminator is a bug?
<doko> linitan/libdevel-size-perl remains. foundations
<doko> anything else?
<jamespage> doko: yeah i noted that this morning whilst tidying up a few other bits
<jamespage> the masakara -> sqlalchemy-utils dep has now been removed (it was surplus - dropped upstream as well)
<jamespage> which should clear masakari-* and python-tabulate for promotion
<doko> ok, I'll wait until the mismatch page is updated
<doko> closing?
<didrocks> yeah, nothing else for me
<sarnold> some of the apport binary packages depend upon x-terminal-emulator -- I wonder if that's where terminator comes from?
<jamespage> I'll deal with that designate extra new deps thing - its entirely optional
<jamespage> so no new MIR needed there
<jamespage> coreycb: ^^
<coreycb> jamespage: yes edgegrid is optional, thanks
<doko> sarnold: ok, so add a real package as the first alternative, one for gtk, one for kde
<sarnold> I wonder why it's just showing up now; precise appears to be the last release without the x-terminal-emulator dependency
<doko> maybe another package providing that one was demoted?
<doko> anyway, closing
<sarnold> thanks doko, all
<doko> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 14:34:49 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-17-14.09.moin.txt
<didrocks> thx
<cpaelzer> doko: sorry to be late had private  schedules moved around du to the virus
<cpaelzer> and yes we can review the web page next week as well
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-03-19
<bdmurray> o/
<sil2100> o/
<slyon> hey! o/
<rbalint> o/
<waveform> \o
<bdmurray> welcome slyon
<bdmurray> which I read as cylon
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 19 15:02:25 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform)
<bdmurray> infinity rbalint xnox waveform tdaitx sil2100 mwhudson bdmurray vorlon juliank doko
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<sil2100> bdmurray: we need slyon on the list!
<rbalint> * released unattended-upgrades 2.0
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * preparing systemd 245 for upload
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> sil2100: aw snap
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> 19th March:
<xnox> Landed what-is-python package with doko
<xnox> Landed UC20 hardening w.r.t. drop to shell
<xnox> TODO snapd.mount changes
<xnox> Working on PVM FFe for s390-tools & the test PPA for IBM
<xnox> Done
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Ubuntu images now in raspi imager \o/
<waveform> * Worked on uc20 boot sequence (now starting kernel successfully, but getting stuck in initrd)
<waveform> * Verified new uc20 boot script still works on classic
<waveform> * Worked on flash-kernel for initrd removal (LP: #1867791)
<waveform> * ... and new kernel suffix (LP: #1868094)
<waveform> * Packaged pictl (renamed to pibootctl) and published on PPA for testing (ppa:waveform/pibootctl)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1867791 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu Focal) "initrd should be optional on pi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867791
<waveform> * Investigated boot compression on Core for arm64 (possible on 20, tricky on 18)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868094 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "New kernel suffix breaks flash-kernel update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1868094
<waveform> (done)
<sil2100> Is tdaitx with us?
<sil2100> I guess not around, let me go then
<slyon> bdmurray, sil2100, I will go last
<sil2100> slyon: o/
<sil2100> - Was OoO on Friday
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - 360's
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * A bit more work on the SR-IOV spec
<sil2100>   * Introducing Lukas into the netplan project
<sil2100>   * Reviewing a modified PR from Lukas, adding the gsm NetworkManager support - merged
<sil2100>   * Reviewing PR for introducing the emit-lldp setting for networkd backend - merged
<sil2100>   * Listed a preliminary set of supported setting keys in the NM read-write spec
<sil2100>   * Started implementing SR-IOV functionality - first tackling on-demand VF creation
<sil2100> - Learned a bit about networkd test suite
<sil2100> - Fixed the activation-mode branch for systemd-networkd, added tests, re-submitted upstream
<sil2100> - Verified the ubuntu-image 1.9 SRU
<sil2100> - Looked at the pi-gadget boot-partition size situation, kicking off a new -proposed build
<sil2100> - Reviewed and merged pi-gadget change for support of disabling tty's (kiosk mode)
<sil2100> - Filled in MIR for linux-firmware-raspi2
<sil2100> - Reviewed some britney1 changes for Andy
<sil2100> - Some release-related discussions and work (FFe reviews too)
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> (that was longer than I expected)
<bdmurray> mwhudson:
<bdmurray> whoops
<bdmurray> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> that's me!
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding adding more members to the changelogs group
<bdmurray> removed code names from the Raspi imaging utility os list
<bdmurray> added openssh-server to removal blacklist (LP: #1865309)
<bdmurray> updated apport with a patch from a user of apport-retrace (LP: #1866996)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1865309 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "openssh-server removed during bionic->focal upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1865309
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866996 in Apport "apport-retrace sandbox can not be used with https mirrors in sources.list" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866996
<bdmurray> resolved issue with apport connectivity check and install from PPA test
<bdmurray> fixed issue with apport-test-crashes automatic build process
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for LP: #1865309
<bdmurray> uploaded bionic, eoan SRUs for apport bug LP: #1814611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1814611 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "turning off "Send error reports to Canonical" prevents using ubuntu-bug" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1814611
<bdmurray> discussed terminator url highlighting bug with bryce
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon is out
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * was out fri, mon, tue
<juliank> * 360s
<juliank> * made the debian-cd oem work ready to land
<juliank> * investigations if upstream commit fixes shim so it can load fwupd again, so far testing was not successful, but gotta look on a vm w/ a serial console
<juliank> * verified grub srus for LP: #1864533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1864533 in grub2 (Ubuntu Focal) "grub wrongly booting via bios entry point instead of efi when secureboot disabled" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1864533
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> doko
<doko>  - GCC 9.3 release, fixed self-inclicted breakage
<doko>  - GCC 8.4 backport for bionic
<doko>  - python / python-dev removals from build dependencies
<doko>  - contributed to what-is-python
<doko>  - various uploads to get ruby-defaults/icu/boost1.71 in migratable shape (output_notest)
<doko>  - 360
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> slyon:
<slyon> * joined the team this week
<slyon> * worked on a pull-request to integate initial NetworkManager GSM support into netplan
<slyon> * worked on netplan's unittests, to get code coverage up to 100%
<slyon> * looking into netplan's failing integration tests for focal (looks like the NetworkManager update v1.20 -> 1.22 broke
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1862775 isn't about one of our packages but...
<ubottu> bug 1862775 in terminator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] terminator (dependency of apport)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862775
<bdmurray> This is still on the component mismatches
<bdmurray> So how could we resolve this?
<doko> add real alternatives, not just a virtual one
<doko> one for kde, one for gtk/gnome
<xnox> doko:  it's only pulling it in on i86
<doko> kterm? gome-terminal?
<xnox> doko:  it's only pulling it in on i386 which has no gtk/gnome nor kde
<xnox> doko:  via arch:all packages
<doko> well, then make the dep [!i386]
<xnox> doko:  one cannot have arch specific deps on arch:all packages
<bdmurray> okay, so it is something we should fix in apport
<doko> promote xterm
<xnox> no
<xnox> we should make components missmatches ignore i386
<xnox> because this shit is unsustainable.
<doko> no, that would be bad too
<xnox> arch:all packages will continiusly pull in random crap, which we chose not to build on i386 into main
<doko> or limit that to arch-all packages
<xnox> or like it should look at i386-blacklist packages and consider them to be "available" for the purpose of components missmatches
 * juliank approves this message
<xnox> well, arch-all packages that are in i386-whitelist should be considered
<xnox> if they are not in the i386-whitelist that should only do components missmatches across !i386
<xnox> shall we card that as a task?
 * xnox lives a comment on the bug, if we agree?!
<bdmurray> live it
<bdmurray> bug 1860359 also not our package but what is the smallest size of the efi boot partition?
<ubottu> bug 1860359 in Ubuntu "bug in public documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860359
<bdmurray> xnox will comment on that bug
<bdmurray> bug 1861082
<ubottu> bug 1861082 in snapd "ubuntu-bug doesn't know how to file bugs against snaps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861082
<bdmurray> we've talked about this before but is it work we want to take on for this release?
<rbalint> didn't we take this?
<bdmurray> I don't see a card for it.
<bdmurray> Let's card it and create a special case for subiquity at a minimum.
<bdmurray> bug 1867065 we talked about last week
<ubottu> bug 1867065 in casper (Ubuntu) "Installer hangs at boot on machine" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867065
<bdmurray> That is part of the spinner theme group of bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1866659 - sil2100 isn't that normal?
<ubottu> bug 1866659 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu 20.04 has incomplete language support of offline install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866659
<sil2100> Let's leave it as incoming and wait for the reporter to answer xnox's valid question
<bdmurray> Is there somebody who can test bug 1858013?
<ubottu> bug 1858013 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "20.04 installer doesn't note power cable status on 'prepare to install' window" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1858013
<bdmurray> Actually I'll do that.
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<bdmurray> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<doko> openssh: in review by security
<bdmurray> python-apt - juliank?
<juliank> bdmurray: nothing to do on the apt stuff
<juliank> bdmurray: it's waiting for ruby-debian
<bdmurray> juliank: right I found that in the last meeting's log
<xnox> i think i am back
<doko> icu/nodejs: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/n/node-chokidar/focal/amd64
<xnox> i think i am back
<slyon> xnox, wb
<bdmurray> Is there somebody who'd like to look at nodejs?
<doko> icu/webkit2gtk: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/r/ruby-gnome/focal/ppc64el
<doko> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/sphinx/focal/ppc64el
<doko> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/s/sphinx/focal/s390x
 * sil2100 won't have any free cycles this week for sure
<bdmurray> rbalint: can you look at nodejs?
<rbalint> bdmurray, sure
<rbalint> bdmurray, carding it
<bdmurray> rbalint: thanks
<doko> I'll look at sphinx
<bdmurray> I'll look at kazoo
<bdmurray> xnox: will look at python-fabio for a bit
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<juliank> I'm playing with iwd
<bdmurray> Steve is out today and next week
<bdmurray> alright if there is nothing else
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 19 15:46:57 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-19-15.02.moin.txt
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
