#ubuntu-classroom 2007-04-04
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-classroom.log
<A55A551N> Hi all...
<A55A551N> I'm new to Linux and I am trying to transition using Ubuntu as a suggestion from a Linux savvy co-worker...
<A55A551N> I am on the part of downloading source or binary packages, the extract, compiling, and installation of these....
<A55A551N> it is a bit duanting and complex for me....I was wondering if I could get some help with these...?
<A55A551N> I know Synaptic is a utility that can faicilitate this for the most part...
<A55A551N> but, I am trying to understand and familiarize myself with this process from at the very rawest level possible, which, I believe is through the shell. I want to understand the process through the shell....
<A55A551N> now...don't all rush to answer.....LOL!
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-04-06
<xFate> hey, can anyone give me a hand? i'm trying to install nvidia drivers, but the installer says i must close 'x server'
<xFate> i have no idea what it is about
<jrib> !nvidia | Fate
<ubotu> Fate: To install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your video card, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-04-07
<DM> damnig
<kelsey435> ello?
<Flannel> Howdy
<kelsey435> ok
<Flannel> so, you want /boot on it's own partition? or did you just get recomended that by whomever?
<kelsey435> I just was doing what someone else was telling me today
<kelsey435> had me doing a boot, a swap and a home
<Flannel> Er... no root?
<Flannel> that would be /
<kelsey435> ....at this point i just push buttons
<Flannel> Heh.  Ok
<Flannel> Are you dualbooting?
<kelsey435> when i was trying to install it but myself i set the boot flagged partition to '/'
<kelsey435> yes my desktop has xp as well
<kelsey435> on separate hd's tho
<Flannel> Ok.  A separate boot will be handy because it means that if youdecide to remove linux later, you don't necesarily need to reinstall the windows bootloader to be able to boot, /boot will still be there, and still allow you to boot to windows.
<Flannel> But, if you have a windows CD handy, and don't mind fixmbr if you decide to ditch linux, then it won't matter
<Flannel> Usually, you'll find in a few months you'll want to tune your HDs a bit differently anyway, now that you know what you're doing.
<Flannel> Or, I did anyway.  Went through a few installs just because I wanted to shuffle stuff around
<kelsey435> right, i see what you saying
<Flannel> especially when /home is on it's own partition, reinstalling around it becomes increasingly easy
<kelsey435> In the next few months i thinking of building a second comp, and making my second machine the straight linux box
<Flannel> so, we'll need a root (/) partition, which will hold all of our stuff, except /home (all our personal stuff)
<Flannel> How big is the HD?
<kelsey435> 80 gb
<Flannel> are you going to be running anything on this machine?  apache or whatnot?
<kelsey435> do not know about such things yet
<Flannel> alright.
<kelsey435> i am wanting to learn something new, but i hate macs, so i am diving in here
<Flannel> We'll go ahead and give you 10GB (or thereabouts) for /, 70GB for /home
<kelsey435> no swap?
<Flannel> but first, a 512MB /boot
<Flannel> oh right.
<Flannel> good call
<kelsey435> ; ] 
<Flannel> How much RAM do you have?
<kelsey435> erm i believe 1 gb
<kelsey435> yeah 1 gb
<Flannel> This is a desktop?
<kelsey435> yes
<Flannel> alright.  Um, Well, 'traditionally' you double the RAM for swap.  Although, I don't personally ever see a reason for more than 1GB of swap (well, with 1GB of RAM), but That might just be me.  Unless you're hibernating, then you need at least te size of your RAM in swap
<Flannel> So, we'll first make a 512MB /boot, then make / then /home then swap
<Flannel> however big you want
<kelsey435> ok so i am going to manuelly edit table
<Flannel> um, oh.  right, yeah.
<Flannel> Let me... find a photo walkthrough of the install, so I'll knwo what you're talking about ;)
<kelsey435> i assume just delete the 3 partitions i have in here ?
<Flannel> Uh, yeah.  Ditch everything
<kelsey435> ok
<kelsey435> ok new partion...512mb  created as primary and ext3?
<Flannel> Yeah
<Flannel> and, round to cylinders, if it's unchecked
<kelsey435> kk
<kelsey435> second
<kelsey435> how big for /
<kelsey435> 10?
<Flannel> somethign around there.
<kelsey435> primary ext3 rounded?
<Flannel> all of these ext3, what are the otheroptions besides primary?
<kelsey435> extended
<Flannel> all of these will be rounded as well.
<kelsey435> then logical is not selectable
<Flannel> yes primary
<Flannel> right
<Flannel> We'll deal with that now
<Flannel> so, / is pimary
<kelsey435> kk
<Flannel> now, make a partition with the rest of the space, set it to extended
<kelsey435> no swap?
<Flannel> That'll go inside this one
<kelsey435> o ok
<Flannel> swap and /home will be logical partitions
<kelsey435> tight
<kelsey435> ok i have 3 partitions all ext3 512, 10 gb and 65ish gb
<Flannel> right.  Um, now... new partition
<Flannel> Logical should be available, I hope
<kelsey435> i can make logical drives from extended partitions
<kelsey435> i dont know if i can from primary
<Flannel> Right.  We want to do that.
<Flannel> no, only extended
<Flannel> and you can only have one extended
<kelsey435> ok
<Flannel> However we end up doing that.  Like I said, Ive never used the liveCD installer
<Flannel> so, make your last two (swap and /home) as logical
<kelsey435> so the first logical partition should be the swap with a size of 1 gb? etx3?
<Flannel> swap is swap filetype, not ext3
<Flannel> there should be a swap thing
<kelsey435> had i optioned the options window i woulda figured it out
<kelsey435> ; ] 
<kelsey435> 1 or 2 gbs?
<Flannel> whatever you want
<kelsey435> you said i never need over 1 gb?
<Flannel> I've never used my swap... period
<Flannel> but, I don't do a whole lot of memory stuffs
<kelsey435> the rest will be logical ext3?
<Flannel> yeah, ext3 for all non-swap ones
<kelsey435> neither do i, i just like to kill people on counterstrike
<Flannel> If you do 2GB swap, it just means 1 less GB for /home, which isn't a big deal, all things considered
<Flannel> Actually.
<Flannel> Make /home first
<Flannel> then swap
<Flannel> swap last thing
<Flannel> and make swap 2gb
<Flannel> if you want to shrink swap later, you'll be able to.
<Flannel> (and expand home).  If you did it the other way around, you wouldn't
<kelsey435> ok
<kelsey435> i have 3 partitions with one spilt up
<Flannel> then, once that's done... hit forward
<kelsey435> forward?
<Flannel> Or next
<Flannel> or whatever
<kelsey435> whatever makes me go onward haha
<kelsey435> all operations successful...ima press close
<Flannel> right
<kelsey435> do i need to have the mount points in a specific order?
<Flannel> Um, I don't think so.  I'd do them in order that they're on the disk
<kelsey435> _/  /boot   /home swap?
<Flannel> so, /boot / /home swap
<Flannel> but, I don't think it matters
<kelsey435> ok going forward
<Flannel> it'll take a bit, to format everything and stuff
<Flannel> oh, wait.
<Flannel> one more screen.
<kelsey435> the one that has install on it?
<Flannel> You want to install grub to hd0.
<Flannel> There's ONE button, albeit a smidge hidden
<Flannel> it should already say hd0
<Flannel> just confirm, then hit install
<Flannel> this will overwrite the windows bootloader, so GRUB can do it's thing.
<kelsey435> i alrdy hit install, i didnt check to make sure it was set right, but usually it is on  hd0
<Flannel> yeah.  thta's default.  otherwise we'd have to tweak a few files and some other stuff.
<kelsey435> I have gotten to this step like 345654034 times, but i ahve finally gotten past 15 %
<kelsey435> yay
<kelsey435> so when i start my pc will it ask me which os i wanna run? or so i have to set the hd's to the right boot sequences?
<kelsey435> or do i**
<Flannel> GRUB is installing to hd0, which is primary master.  So, it'll boot.  There will be a menu regarding which.  Um, it *might* be hidden by default, I don't know.
<Flannel> if it is, it's trivial to make it not hidden.
<kelsey435> yay trivial things
<Flannel> but yes, grub will ask which OS you want to boot, with a timer of N seconds
<kelsey435> ok,  i am excited to actually be able to play around with linux outside of live cd
<Flannel> Oh, remember to take the liveCD out when rebooting.  Mhmm.  Or, whatever.  When the liveCD prompts you (if it's still in; again, I don't know how the liveCD does it), boot to HD not the CD
<kelsey435> do you know by chance if windows' remote desktop can go into a linux box?  I found programs that will let me into a linux box from a pc, but you know it isnt going to be on all desktops i have in the future
<kelsey435> yeah ill take out the cd
<Flannel> There are RDP things for linux
<kelsey435> right.  but if i am at a buddies house, he will not have it. you know what i am saying?
<Flannel> there are RDP servers for linux
<kelsey435> ok
<kelsey435> is there a reason as to why the / was to 10 gb?  is that just the amount of space needed for the os?
<Flannel> about 2GB is needed by the OS
<Flannel> but, you'll be installing more stuff (still won't take a lot)
<kelsey435> 10 just for expasion?
<kelsey435> -typos
<Flannel> but, / has ... lots of stuff in it, like, if you were hosting apache (to serve files to your LAN or whatnot), that'll go in /var/www
<Flannel> and that'll be inside of /
<kelsey435> ok
<Flannel> so yeah, 10GB is most likely more than you'll EVER need.  But, it's better than running out
<kelsey435> simple enough
<kelsey435> can i see the files on my other hd's?
<Flannel> there are other things that deal with this issue, like allowing you ro resize on the fly (without even rebooting), but that's... a bit more complicated.
<Flannel> yeah, you'll... have to mount it.
<Flannel> !ntfs
<ubotu> To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions . For write access see !ntfs-3g or !fuse
<kelsey435> you have been totally awesome i am so thankful
<Flannel> I'm just glad we didn't run into that random error you were having earlier.  Since I had no idea what was causing it.
<kelsey435> now that i am not "completly clueless" i can see my partitions were no where near set up right
<kelsey435> i am sure that is was trying to write to something that wasnt even set up
<kelsey435> no root and a 10 gb boot ;x
<Flannel> yeah.  no root was sort of odd
<kelsey435> !ntfs-3g
<ubotu> ntfs-3g is is a Linux driver which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. It has been extensively tested but please remember to keep backups of critical data. Installation instructions at http://lunapark6.com/?p=1710 (Dapper) and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217009/ (Edgy)
<kelsey435> is this sketchy? and i should worry about being able to read um?
<Flannel> read is fine.  You don't need to worry about ntfs-3g if you just need to read NTFS
<Flannel> reading is builtin.  writing was only recently stabalized (that factoid used to say "its still beta software" instead of the "extensively tested" bit
<kelsey435> k
<kelsey435> i ran the diskmounter, but i cannot seem to locate them
<Flannel> kelsey435: No idea.  You'd probably be better served asking in #ubuntu.  I've never dealt with mounting NTFS.
<kelsey435> kk
<kelsey435> thanks
<iKs> Yop  tous :)
<iKs> Vous qui  priori tes au jus de l'aide sur Internet, via diffrents forums et mailling-lists
<iKs> Pourriez vous lire et critiquer cet article crit de ma main : http://iks279.net/comment-bien-demander-de-l-aide-sur-internet ^^
<iKs> Toute critique, remarque, ide, etc.. est la bienvenue ;)
<iKs> Er..
<iKs> Sorry >_<
<iKs> Wrong channel...
<iKs> #ubuntu-classroom != #ubuntu-fr-classroom......
<sacater> i wish to learn about bash
<sacater> and bash programs
<nalioth> !bash
<ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Manuals: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands
<sacater> nalioth: please try and talk to a guy called welp (#gentoo-dev), hes been wanting to talk to you for ages :|
<nalioth> sacater: ? i'm here every day
<sacater> well, its his name he was after really
<MoSha> Hola, cmo les va?
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-04-02
 * mypapit kilat!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gtg
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-04-04
<tinklemcsprinkle> never fear, tinkle is here
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-04-06
<ryanakca> hmm... no meeting?
<Heartsbane> ryanakca: guess not
<ryanakca> :(
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-30
<amar> does 9.04 alpha6 had intel 4695 wi-fi card drivers preinstalled?
<HymnToLife> amar: why not try it and find out?
<amar> HymnToLife: I only have access to wi-fi and when i logged in to Jaunty Alpha6.. I could not connect to net... So, I could not be sure if it's my network's fault or Ubuntu Driver...so I had to again login to Vista..
<HymnToLife> amar: Jaunty beta is out, you could try that
<amar> k
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-03-31
<bitumen2003> date -u
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom | Upcoming: 2 Apr 2009 @ 06:00 UTC: Fixing an Ubuntu bug; 9 Apr 2009 @ 12:00 UTC: bzr builddeb --in-15-minutes | Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<d3k4rd> hello
<d3k4rd> anyone know of a decent irc client for ubuntu or rather linux in general?
<hatter243> XChat
<d3k4rd> is it as pretty as mIRC?
<hatter243> Also, #ubuntu-offtopic would be a good place for discussion about that
<d3k4rd> sweet thanks
<hatter243> np
<RachedTN> d3k4rd: pidgin
<d3k4rd> pidgin does irc?
<d3k4rd> ahh it does
<d3k4rd> lol
<d3k4rd> google is awsome once again lol
<d3k4rd> xchat is cool too thanks guys goin offtopic lol
<RachedTN> d3k4rd: I use pidgin and it's awsome :)
<pleia2> pidgin is geared more toward IM though, it's a personal preference really
<d3k4rd> well mostly all i do is use irc to chat you know?
<d3k4rd> guess pidgin would work better
<pleia2> xchat certainly is the more popular
<pleia2> but they're all free, try them all :D
<d3k4rd> thats true not like we got small hard drives right
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-04-01
<roote_> hi
<fakeer> downloading 9.04 beta :)
<quiquin> date -u
<henux> fail
<Rocha80> ola
<Rocha80> alguem sabe da aula de hoje
<Rocha80> sobre empacotamento para ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> Question about scheduling events ?
<bodhi_zazen> do I just add in here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<bodhi_zazen> or should I submit on the mailing list ?
<bodhi_zazen> Basically I would like to do sessions here every other week, thrusdays, 00:00 UTC (23:00 in daylight savings time)
<bodhi_zazen> Hopefully others on the BT can add in sessions at other times and additional sessions as well
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: ^^
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: are you on the mailing list? I try to coordinate there, the dev folks don't tend to update the wiki unfortunately so I have to and I've been busy
<bodhi_zazen> I *think* I am on the mailing list pleia2
<pleia2> as soon as I hear about a class, I post to the mailing list at least
<bodhi_zazen> OK, I would like to commit to regular sessions
<pleia2> hoping that others would too :)
<bodhi_zazen> and I am lazy
<bodhi_zazen> so I do not want to post information / topices in too many places :)
<pleia2> ok - currently the only team doing regular sessions are the dev team, their timing is outlined on the wiki...
 * pleia2 gets link
<bodhi_zazen> thanks, I was looking here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<pleia2> yeah, I haven't updated the Classroom page yet :(
 * pleia2 has a bit of a flu, needs to nap again soon
<bodhi_zazen> sorry to hear you are sick
<bodhi_zazen> I can update the classroom page
<bodhi_zazen> I am looking at every other thursday so April 2, 16, and 30
<bodhi_zazen> I have not picked a topic for the last 2 yet
<pleia2> the dev team chose thursday as well
<bodhi_zazen> yes, I saw that
<pleia2> thursday will be a busy day, but as long as you choose different parts of the day it's ok
<bodhi_zazen> we are at different times , I am at 00:00 and they are at 06:00
<pleia2> gotcha
<bodhi_zazen> thanks, I posted on the e-mail list
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: I have been posting topics and additional information here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Events
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: ok, I'll subscribe to that so I can update the wiki page
<pleia2> s/the wiki page/the Classroom wiki page
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: that would be awesome
<bodhi_zazen> and also, since the topics are open, if you have suggestions they would be welcome
<bodhi_zazen> In the long run, as I said, I am encouraging the beginners team to contribute additional topics and sessions
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I'll ask around and see what kind of classes people want :)
<bodhi_zazen> thank you
<bodhi_zazen> people can post suggestions here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Proposals
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom | Upcoming: 2 Apr @ 06:00 UTC: Fixing an Ubuntu bug; 9 Apr @ 00:00 UTC: Q&A Session: Linux Permissions; 9 Apr 2009 @ 12:00 UTC: bzr builddeb --in-15-minutes | Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<pleia2> ok, wiki should be all updated now (although I messed up the table a bit in a way I don't have the brain power to figure out at the moment, sigh wiki tables! :) )
<bodhi_zazen> pleia2: get some rest ;)
<bodhi_zazen> and thank you for everthing
<bodhi_zazen> ooo , looks nice pleia2
<pleia2> thanks for doing classes :)
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-04-02
<amar> can i setup a server on my jaunty desktop for experiment purposes ..like .. checking my php and mysql skills.. using websites..etc...?
<brand0con> Upcoming: 2 Apr @ 06:00 UTC: Fixing an Ubuntu bug... isnt that now?
<cel_> in 45 minutes, I think ^_^
<dholbach> yep
<brand0con> oh sry mixed up
<dholbach> run     date -u      in a terminal
<dholbach> it'll tell you what UTC time it is
<brand0con> dholbach: thx.  clearly shows my need for the classroom ^^
<balarka> dholbach, hello
<dholbach> hiya balarka
<balarka> dholbach, the presentation is going to start in few minutes right?
<dholbach> yep
<balarka> great!
<balarka> i am sorry if i disturbed you
<balarka> but just want to confirm it didnt start already :)
<dholbach> no worries :)
<balarka> thanks..
<balarka> dholbach, a quick ques.. this presentation is aimed at fixing an ubuntu bug.. and i am very dumb at open source and wanted to start from first
<balarka> dholbach, am confused if this is for me
<balarka> dholbach, as i am completely a novice programmer for ubuntu
<Pollywog> I think it is okay, balarka, I am also confused
<balarka> Pollywog, :)
<dholbach> don't worry guys - we can't cover everything in much detail but as long as you get an idea from it and have fun and know which questions to ask later, we're all good :)
<balarka> that sounds good
<decumanus_> how long will the presentation take? I have to go to work some time...;)
<dholbach> decumanus_: we'll try to stay within the hour with questions
<dholbach> but if there are followup questions, I'm happy to take them
<decumanus_> ok thanks!
<akgraner> decumanus_: your in the CZ aren't you?
<decumanus_> yes
<akgraner> I love it there...
<decumanus_> akgraner: so do I:-)
<akgraner> I got to stay in Brno for about 2 months...
<dholbach> oh... who of you guys is multilingual?
<dholbach> if you are, could you hang out in #ubuntu-classroom-<languagecode> (like #ubuntu-classroom-fr) too and translate questions for team mates that are not too familiar with English yet?
<decumanus_> akgraner: Prague here, but also like Brno:-)
<akgraner> decumanus_: I love Prague as well
<akgraner> decumanus_: I spent all day on the Charles Bridge
<sianis> time is up!
<dholbach> ok my friends... the bells are tolling 8 o' clock here, so it's 6:00 UTC - ready to start!
<dholbach> who's here for some packaging training action?
<Pollywog> me
<balarka> m
<balarka> me
<silentsno> me 2
<hassanibraheem> me too :)
<sianis> me
<Adila01> me
<decumanus_> me
<akgraner> me
<brand0con> muah!
<dholbach> fantastic
<dholbach> ok... so we're going to take a look at a few bugs I selected beforehand
<dholbach> and try to see what we can do about them
<tashuiwuhen_> me
<dholbach> a category of bugs that is predestined for doing that is what you get when you click on the "xxxxx bugs fixed elsewhere" link on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<dholbach> these are bugs that were filed in Ubuntu, our Bug Squad identified they were upstream problems (so no bugs that we introduced ourselves), forwarded those bugs to the upstream bug trackers and they were fixed there
<dholbach> before we get started, we need to set up a few things
<dholbach> could you please either 1) use the "Software Properties" dialogue to enable Sources or 2) add something like "deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jaunty restricted main multiverse universe" to /etc/apt/sources.list and run sudo apt-get update
<Pollywog> I am running Hardy and Intrepid, not yet Jaunty
<dholbach> once you're done with that, please install the following packages:
<dholbach>    cdbs bzr ubuntu-dev-tools devscripts
<dholbach> Pollywog: OK, then please adjust that line
<Pollywog> k
<dholbach> next please add something like this to your ~/.bashrc file
<dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
<dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
<dholbach> (if you use a different shell, please use whatever config file that shell has, bash should be the default)
<posingaspopular> where do we ask questions?
<dholbach> just in here
<dholbach> afterwards either restart your terminal, or run    source ~/.bashrc
<posingaspopular> oh nvm, Pollywog asked it i guess. apt-get complained about dist parse
<dholbach> posingaspopular: can you put up the log of that at  http://paste.ubuntu.com ?
<balarka> dholbach, so i put this line deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy restricted main multiverse
<balarka> dholbach,  is this correct ?
<balarka> dholbach,  i am using hardy
<dholbach> balarka: add universe to the end of the line too
<balarka> dholbach,  oh ok
<balarka> dholbach, done
<dholbach> so what we did up until now 1) tell apt where to get source code of packages, 2) install a few tools we're going to need, 3) tell the packaging tools who you are (that simplifies a bunch of things later on)
<posingaspopular> dholbach: http://pastebin.com/d56816cc
<dholbach> posingaspopular: try removing the space in front of the last lines
<balarka> dholbach, you mean add export lines at the end of bashrc file?
<dholbach> balarka: yes
<posingaspopular> ah no, i didnt add it correctly. didnt add the actual (universe, mulitverse, etc) at the end of the line
<balarka> dholbach, ok
<hassanibraheem> dholbach: should the .bashrc changes reflect the launchpad account settings?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: I guess "  deb...." instead of "deb....." is the problem
<dholbach> hassanibraheem: it's generally a good idea to have that email address registered with Launchpad, but not relevant now
<hassanibraheem> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> hassanibraheem: your preferred one will do
<dholbach> ok... who's not set yet? :)
<balarka> dholbach, regarding the 3 point
<brand0con> uhmm i may be outa luck.  running debian and unable to get ubuntu-dev-tools
<balarka> dholbach,  you meant to say we need to put
<balarka> our name and address
<dholbach> brand0con: ignore ubuntu-dev-tools for now then
<brand0con> ok
<balarka> in the export lines?
<brand0con> everything else is good
<dholbach> brand0con: rock on
<dholbach> balarka: yep
<dholbach> just add something like this to the end of the file
<dholbach>  export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
<dholbach>  export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
<balarka> dholbach, so we dont have any @ubuntu.com address
<balarka> dholbach,  so any outside email address should be fine?
<dholbach> that's not necessary now
<dholbach> yep
<balarka> dholbach, got it
<balarka> dholbach, sure
<dholbach> super, so let's crack on
<dholbach> I thought we'd pick https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subvertpy/+bug/323270 first
<dholbach> the problem is in a python module, when used with python 2.6 (default in jaunty) it emits a warning about the deprecated use of another python module
<dholbach> luckily the problem has been solved by upstream already
 * ara reads the bug report
<dholbach> everybody who is on jaunty, please run
<dholbach>   apt-get source subvertpy
<dholbach> everybody else, please run
<dholbach>    dget -xu https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/subvertpy/0.6.1-1build1/+files/subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc
<dholbach> this will download the source package for you
<maco> what does the u do?
<dholbach> so what's a source package?
 * sianis is done
<Pollywog> dget?  is that a typo?
<dholbach> Pollywog: no
<Pollywog> k
<Hobbsee> maco: it allows unauthenticated sources to be downloaded and unpacked
<maco> Hobbsee: thanks. ive only used -x
<dholbach> maco: (if you don't have the GPG key of the person who signed it)
<balarka> dholbach, it says dget is not installed
<dholbach> balarka: install devscripts please
<balarka> dholbach, sure
 * silentsno downloaded the source for subvertpy.
<dholbach> a source package is what we need to build .deb packages
<silentsno> ls
<balarka> dholbach, it says unknown option u
<balarka> when i type dget command
<balarka> as above
<silentsno> Question: so is the upstream patch already uploaded into this source package that we just downloaded?
<dholbach> it consists of 1) the .orig.tar.gz which is the unmodified tarball the upstream authors released on their homepage, 2) the .diff.gz: the compressed set of changes we need to make to build it "the debian/ubuntu way" and 3) .dsc file which is meta data like md5sums and so on
<dholbach> balarka: just use dget -x then
<dholbach> silentsno: no, that's our job :)
<dholbach> we'll get to that in a sec
<dholbach> does everything I said above make sense?
<dholbach> any questions right now?
<PartyBoi2> yes
 * silentsno nods his head.
<Hobbsee> silentsno: the stuff that's just been unpacked is what ubuntu currently has in jaunty for that package, fyi
<dholbach> ok perfect
<balarka> dholbach, yes.. got the downloaded things
<dholbach> the great thing is: this works for every package in Ubuntu
<Pollywog> I got 404's
<dholbach> you have all the source code just seconds away from you
<balarka> dholbach, quick ques.. so can i treat a package as a class or module?
<balarka> dholbach,  or any spl entity?
<Pollywog> nvm I think I had a typo
<dholbach> Pollywog: can you put up the log at  http://paste.ubuntu.com ?
<Pollywog> looks good now
<dholbach> balarka: a package is just a piece of software, it can be an end-user application, a small tool or a library that other tools use
<balarka> dholbach, ok
<dholbach> in our case it's a "python module", so a piece of code that other packages written in python make use of
<balarka> dholbach, got it
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> if you run
<dholbach>   cd subvertpy-0.6.1
<dholbach>   less debian/copyright
<tashuiwuhen_> what's the use of the command?
<dholbach> you will see information about the copyright and everything - right now we're just interested in "where do we get the sofware from?"
<dholbach> tashuiwuhen_: which command do you mean?
<tashuiwuhen_> less
<dholbach> it will display the content of   debian/copyright  in a "pager"
<dholbach> which means you can scroll up and down using arrow keys, etc
<dholbach> once you're bored, you can type 'q'
<dholbach> "more" or "cat" would have worked too :)
<tashuiwuhen_> 0,got it,thanks
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> we're interested in this line
<dholbach> It was downloaded from http://launchpad.net/subvertpy.
<dholbach> if you don't know where a particular package has its code from, debian/copyright should always tell you
<dholbach> so subvertpy is hosted on Launchpad, just like Ubuntu is
<dholbach> the great thing is, we can now do something like
<dholbach>    bzr branch lp:subvertpy
<dholbach> to get the source code
<dholbach> (maybe run    cd ..     beforehand)
<balarka> dholbach, didnt we get the code already?
<balarka> by dget command?
<dholbach> balarka: that's what's in Ubuntu right now
<cel_> Question: lp is because of "launchapd"?
<dholbach> balarka: now we get the current tip of what the upstream developers have been working on
<dholbach> cel_: exactly
<cel_> ok, thanks
<Pollywog> I get unknown repository format
<Crusher> me too
<balarka> dholbach, ques.. who are the upstream developers?
<dholbach> balarka: the software authors of "subvertpy"
<balarka> dholbach, oh ok
<dholbach> ok, let's take a different approach then
<JanC> Pollywog: you need a newer bzr
<Pollywog> hmmm
<Pollywog> I am running Intrepid how old could it be
<balarka> dholbach, it says bzr is not installed
<pkpdjh> I get the same error (using Intrepid)
<balarka> dholbach,  which version is preferable to install
<dholbach> balarka: install the bzr package then please
<ara> balarka: sudo apt-get install bzr
<balarka> ok
<balarka> dholbach, i get parse error at the end
<balarka> dholbach, for sudo apt-get install bzr
<balarka> dholbach, command
<dholbach> balarka: anything wrong in /etc/apt/sources.list then?
<balarka> /var/lib/scrollkeeper/C/scrollkeeper_extended_cl.xml:5852: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
<JanC> peopel with older distros might need the https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa repository
<maco> Pollywog: basically anyone not on jaunty needs that ppa
<dholbach> balarka: that's an unrelated problem
<Pollywog> maco: ty
<spych102> I get Unknown branch format on hardy
<balarka> dholbach,  i dont think so.. as sudo apt-get update went fine
<balarka> dholbach,  without any errors
<dholbach> ok... hold off from running    bzr branch lp:subvertpy    then
<maco> ***** NON JAUNTY USERS: see the PPA JanC linked
<dholbach> we'll use a different approach
<balarka> dholbach, sure
<tashuiwuhen_> me,too,spych102
<dholbach> no PPA needed then :)
<dholbach> so if you head to http://launchpad.net/subvertpy - it takes you a few clicks to get to https://code.launchpad.net/~jelmer/subvertpy/trunk-mirrored
<dholbach> which shows the revision history of what the upstream developers of subvertpy been up to
<dholbach> if you click on the "Source Code" link, it will show you the source code
<posingaspopular> dholbach: what is the syntax in /etc/apt/sources.list for the ppa?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: forget about the PPA for now
<silentsno> "Please try again" Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<Adila01> ha ha, I am having the same problem too
<balarka> me too
<silentsno> Thats from clicking on the SourceCode link
<dholbach> first packaging training session - everything needs to go wrong now
<dholbach> :-))))
<silentsno> :)
<balarka> :)
<balarka> thats the spirit!
<dholbach> I just told the developers :)
<silentsno> it just came up for me
<dholbach> ok, so back to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subvertpy/+bug/323270 for a minute
<dholbach> the first comment says:
<dholbach> Using Python 2.6:
<dholbach> ...Lib\site-packages\subvertpy\delta.py:21: DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
<dholbach>   import md5
<balarka> we shldnt leave me too!
<dholbach> what we need to check out now is subvertpy/delta.py - this seems to be where the problem is right now
<sianis> dholbach: the source line at line 21
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> I'll fast-forward a bit for now
<dholbach> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ejelmer/subvertpy/trunk-mirrored/changes?filter_file_id=delta.py-20080316001917-xyng7m3jlxvdc4c9-1
<dholbach> shows the changes which have been done to the upstream code repository for that file
<dholbach> does anyone see which revision number might solve our problem?
<silentsno> 2016
<sianis> dholbach: 2016
<Pollywog> yes 2016
<dholbach> does everybody see the connection there? :)
<dholbach> ok, so let's head over to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ejelmer/subvertpy/trunk-mirrored/revision/2016
<Crusher> yes
<decumanus_> yes:-)
<tashuiwuhen_> yes
<dholbach> and click on the "Download diff" link
<balarka> dholbach, i could see someone used a deprecated method i guess
<balarka> dholbach, i am not good at python
<balarka> :)
<dholbach> in this case we'll trust upstream
<dholbach> if you cd into subvertpy-0.6.1/ again
<dholbach> and (if you have ubuntu-dev-tools installed) run   what-patch
<dholbach> can anyone see the message it puts out?
<silentsno> where should we put the diff file
<dholbach> silentsno: just save it somewhere you can find it again :)
<sianis> dholbach: It says patchless?
<posingaspopular> command not found?
<Crusher> dholbach: patchless
<dholbach> Crusher, sianis: exactly
<dholbach> so what does what-patch do?
<maco> posingaspopular: you have ubuntu-dev-tools installed?
<Crusher> tell you patching system its using
<posingaspopular> oh, the command is 'what-patch' not 'run what-patch' :P
<dholbach> it tell us, if the package maintainer decided to store additional patches on top of the regular code
<tashuiwuhen_> got it
<dholbach> err, in which way the maintainer decide to store patches
<maco> dholbach: you mean as in a patch management system?
<balarka> dholbach, what are we trying to achieve
<dholbach> in our case the maintainer decide to just patch the source directly
<balarka> here?
<dholbach> maco: exactly
<balarka> dholbach, i am kind of lost
<dholbach> balarka: so the packgae in Ubuntu right now is broken
<balarka> dholbach, ok
<Pollywog> you mean they patched it rather than give us the patch to use?
<maco> well that's much cleaner than the grepping in debian/control dtchen told me to do
<dholbach> balarka: we found out that it's fixed by the software authors already, we found out what the fix is and downloaded it
<dholbach> balarka: now we need to apply it to the package
<hassanibraheem> dholbach: so, in that case, the ubuntu source is just the upstream code with no additional ubuntu changes... right?
<balarka> dholbach, so the diff we downloaded has the patch?
<sianis> dholbach: Deprecation is a warning and not an error, isn't it?
<dholbach> hassanibraheem: that we can not tell, you're right "patchless" is a bit misleading there - I'll make a note
<dholbach> hassanibraheem: what it means to say is "patches are directly applied on the source and not stored separately"
<JanC> Pollywog: they can't just send the patch to everybody on the internet ;)
<Pollywog> k
<blfgomes> what other valid output could I expect, other than "patchless?"
<Pollywog> I was not sure if I understood
<dholbach> sianis: yes, but may become an error in the future - also the warning might be a bit disturbing if you get it every day :)
<hassanibraheem> dholbach: oh, ok
<dholbach> balarka: yep
<sianis> dholbach: you got roght :P
<balarka> ok
<Pollywog> problem here will be the patch level if we all did not put our patch file in the same place, I think
<maco> blfgomes: quilt, cdbs, yabba...i assume it just spits out their names directly
<balarka> dholbach, so how do we know that. .that the patch is seperate and the patch has not already been applied to the code
<Crusher> blfgomes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<blfgomes> maco, Crusher: thanks
<dholbach> balarka: exactly
<Hobbsee> balarka: because if it had been applied already, the bug wouldn't exist, right?
<silentsno> balarka: the code that ubuntu has is older and without this updates that we will apply
<balarka> Hobbsee, but if the bug is already there.. why dont the devs fix it
<balarka> and give?
<Hobbsee> balarka: and you know that the bug still exists, thus, it's not been applied.  Also, when you later use patch (or similar tools), it will warn you if it's already been applied, and ask you if you want to revert it
<maco> balarka: it has been fixed upstream in a new version. we're backporting the fix.
<Hobbsee> balarka: because you're "the dev" in terms of ubuntu, and you're fixing it.
<balarka> maco, Hobbsee thanks
<Pollywog> maco: thanks that answers my puzzlement as well
<dholbach> so I just tried applying the patch and this is what I got:
<dholbach> patching file subvertpy/delta.py
<dholbach> Hunk #2 FAILED at 86.
<maco> (note: you'll sometimes see pulling commits back into an older version referred to as "cherrypicking")
<balarka> Hobbsee, so if i am the dev.. why would i put the patch someone else done already?
<JanC> to say it simple: some people write software, and others make sure it works in their distro  ;)
<balarka> Hobbsee, i am little confused here
<Hobbsee> balarka: right, so there are two types of developers, right?
<Hobbsee> balarka: there's the people who write the software, and the people who package the software to get it into ubuntu
<balarka> Hobbsee, you mean core and MOTU?
<sianis> dholbach: mee too
<dholbach> balarka: what Ubuntu does is integrate software from lots of other projects, subvertpy being one of them
<Pollywog> am I correct that the upstream authors submitted the patch and it is our job to apply it to the version in Ubuntu?
<dholbach> Pollywog: exactly
<Hobbsee> balarka: like authors who write a book, and librarians, who sort books and organise them in their libraries
<balarka> Hobbsee, that was perfect example
<Hobbsee> balarka: but, if an author changes their book, and republishes it, it doesn't mean that the library shelves magically change
<balarka> Hobbsee, thanks
<balarka> Hobbsee, got the point
<Hobbsee> the librarian still has to do the work in finding another book, etc
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<dholbach> ok... cool - are we all clear on where we stand right now
<nanbanjin> nice explanation Hobbsee, ty
<Pollywog> I think I have it
<Hobbsee> nanbanjin: :D
<dholbach> great
<pkpdjh> I'm good.  Thanks, Hobbsee for the analogy.
<balarka> Hobbsee, appreciated!
<Hobbsee> :)
<maco> Hobbsee++
<dholbach> :-)))
<dholbach> ok great
<brand0con> the dead horse has been beaten
<dholbach> I just tried applying the upstream patch, this is what I got:
<dholbach>  patching file subvertpy/delta.py
<dholbach>  Hunk #2 FAILED at 86.
<dholbach> you get this every now and then when there have been a lot of changes in the upstream code and we didn't catch up yet
<balarka> dholbach, so how to apply the patch?
<dholbach> what we'd need to do is apply the changes manually or at least parts of them
<dholbach> balarka: I'll get to that in a sec
<balarka> dholbach, any specific command?
<Pollywog> when you patch, is there still a "--dry-run" option in patch?
<balarka> dholbach, sure..
<dholbach> I just updated the patch to work properly :-)
<dholbach> so if you run
<tashuiwuhen_> hehe
<dholbach>   wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/patch
<dholbach> you should get the patch file that's going to work for us
<Hobbsee> Pollywog: yes
<dholbach> if you
<dholbach> cd into subvertpy-0.6.1 again
<dholbach> and run
<dholbach>   patch -p1 < ~/patch
<dholbach> (or wherever you downloaded the "patch" file to)
<dholbach> it is going to apply the updated changes
<dholbach> you should get something like this as the output
<dholbach> patching file subvertpy/delta.py
<dholbach> did that work for everybody?
<PartyBoi2> yes
<Pollywog> looks like that worked here
<decumanus_> yes, worked
<balarka> nope
<maco> perhaps an explanation of how to figure out and manually update patches would be in order at some point...even just as a blogpost on that packaging howto blog you've got, dholbach?
<balarka> dholbach,  is patch a command?
 * silentsno patched file delta.py
<dholbach> maco: definitely
<dholbach> balarka: yes
<dholbach> it should be in the patch package
<balarka> it gives No such file or directory
<Pollywog> does the patch level depend on where we put the patch file?
<maco> Pollywog: it depends on how deeply into the source package it needs to go
<dholbach> sudo apt-get install cdbs bzr ubuntu-dev-tools devscripts                 (should give you all the tools)
<maco> Pollywog: i'm told "count the slashes"
<Pollywog> maco: ty
<tashuiwuhen_> i'm told "No such file or directory"
<silentsno> dholbach: what is the difference between the revision we downloaded from LP and your patch we downloaded
<aladin> I want to package a java-library. It was called xtvd-lib by upstream and was placed at a directory called xtvd-lib.  My control-file says "Source: xtvd-lib" and "Package: libxtvd". How can I use the same name for the source- and the binary-package?
<dholbach> Pollywog: it depends on from where the "diff" was run
<dholbach> aladin: can we please cover that later on?
<Pollywog> dholbach: ty
<balarka> dholbach, it gives me No such file or directory
<dholbach> aladin: we're in the middle of a session
<balarka> dholbach, when i try the patch -p1 command
<maco> silentsno: one will apply cleanly, and one won't
<balarka> dholbach, as above
<maco> aladin: #ubuntu-motu maybe better
<dholbach> Pollywog: where did you run         wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/patch    ?
<Pollywog> dholbach: it worked for me, I put the patch in ~
<maco> silentsno: you can compare the patches visually to see how he changed it and compare to the source to try to figure out why
<Pollywog> and put in the path in the patch line
<Pollywog> it worked
<dholbach> silentsno: as I said before: the upstream developers put quite a bit of work into subvertpy and we didn't catch up yet, so the revision we downloaded from launchpad did not "apply cleanly on our source" - I updated it to apply cleanly
<balarka> dholbach, it worked too
<balarka> now
<dholbach> balarka: perfect
<dholbach> are we all patched up now?
<Pollywog> I am patched
<Adila01> Same with me
<dholbach> anyone without the ticket? :)
<balarka> me too
<dholbach> perfect
<dholbach> you need devscripts installed for the next step
<pkpdjh> So, if we run into a situation like this where the patch doesn't apply cleanly, what is usually the next step?
<balarka> dholbach, can we apply the patch twice?
<dholbach> what we'll do now as every good package maintainer in the making is: document what we did
<dholbach> balarka: no, it will fail
<balarka> dholbach, ideally it shoudl suceeed
<balarka> right?
<Pollywog> dholbach: that is why we can use --dry-run, right?
<dholbach> pkpdjh: review the patch and apply the "hunks" that failed manually
<dholbach> balarka: yep
<balarka> dholbach, if it is a piece of code replacing another one?
<dholbach> Pollywog: yes, exactly
<pkpdjh> I was afraid that was the answer.  I hate reading patch files manually.
<dholbach> balarka: that's exactly what patches do: replace other code
<balarka> dholbach, ok
<Crusher> dholbach: what is a "hunk"?
<dholbach> pkpdjh: remind me of that later on and we chat a bit about it
<pkpdjh> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> Crusher: if you take a look at ~/patch (or whever you put it beforehand)
<maco> Crusher: parts between lines that have @ in them
<dholbach> you'll noticed "stanzas" that start with something like "@@ -18,7 +18,16 @@"
<Crusher> yep
<balarka> dholbach, where?
<Crusher> so each one is a different hunk
<Crusher> didn't know the terminology :)
<balarka> dholbach,  wehre are the stanzas?
<dholbach> Crusher: exactly, it basically says "in lines X to Y make these changes"
<maco> balarka: all those lines that start with @@ either start or end a stanza
<balarka> maco, you mean in the diff file we downloaded?
<maco> balarka: yes
<dholbach> exactly
<balarka> oh ok
<dholbach> so let's document the changes we did
<dholbach> please run (after you've installed devscripts):
<dholbach>    dch -i
<dholbach> (in subvertpy-0.6.1)
<Pollywog> dch is a new one for me
<balarka> me too
<Pollywog> I have used a different command to do this
<dholbach> dch is a nice tool which makes editing  debian/changelog  easy
<dholbach> this is where package maintainers document what they do and why
<dholbach> this is particularly important where a lot of people work on packages together
<dholbach> you don't want others to guess why you made a change
<dholbach> ... and you don't want to have to guess half a year later :)
<cel_> everybody hates documenting, but's it's important to do! :P
<balarka> dholbach,  so what all things we need to put here?
<dholbach> so I'll put something like this in there:
<dholbach>   * subvertpy/delta.py: apply revision 2016 from upstream to fix python2.6
<dholbach>     deprecation (LP: #323270)
<dholbach> note a few things:
<dholbach>  - I specify exactly which file we changed
<dholbach>  - we say where the change came from (we didn't invent it ourselves)
<dholbach>  - we say what exactly it fixes
<dholbach>  - we say which Launchpad bug it fixes
<maco> (in cases where the patch is attached to a bug, not from upsteram. the 2nd bit can be "patch by Joe Smith")
<ara> all that in just one line ;-)
<dholbach> if you use something like "(LP: #323270)", it will automatically close the bug report, when the new source package gets uploaded
<dholbach> maco: exactly - give credit where it's due :)
<maco> dholbach: uploaded? or successfully built?
<dholbach> maco: uploaded to the build daemons - I'll get to that later if you remind me
<maco> ok
<dholbach> also please replace "0.6.1-1build2" (or whatever changelog version is up there) with "0.6.1-1ubuntu1"
<balarka> maco, dholbach i didnt understand where the patch is attached to a bug
<balarka> mean
<maco> balarka: if instead of grabbing a patch from upstream, someone has written a patch and attached it to the bug report in launchpad, you should give their name
<balarka> maco, so they have got the patch and give it to the users to apply
<balarka> right?
<maco> balarka: yes
<balarka> oh ok
<dholbach> balarka: somebody who proposes a solution on a bug report
<balarka> users apply themselves and use
<dholbach> balarka: in our case we chased up the solution somewhere else
<Pollywog> Does putting ubuntu1 there mean this patch was not brought here from Debian, that it came from Ubuntu?
<balarka> ok
<dholbach> Pollywog: it means: on top of the debian version 0.6.1-1 we put an Ubuntu change
<nanbanjin> wouldn't a person that proposes solution and supplies a patch build the package himself?
<Pollywog> ty
<balarka> nanbanjin, i guess he can or cannot depening on his interest
<dholbach> nanbanjin: they probably do, but as part of the overall bug fix discussion they might propose it to others on the bug report
<maco> nanbanjin: not necessarily. when i started submitting patches, i didnt know how to package, just how to write C
<maco> building a package and putting it in your PPA on launchpad is a *great* way to help users who don't know how to or don't want to deal with patching and compiling manually test proposed fixes
<balarka> maco, what is PPA?
<dholbach> balarka: let's get to that later
<balarka> dholbach, sure..
<dholbach> all done editing the changelog? everybody put some text in there? changed the version number?
<maco> dholbach: sorry :P
<dholbach> maco: no worries
<balarka> dholbach, me too
<balarka> just few moments
<Pollywog> I finished editing the changelog
<dholbach> now save the file
<Pollywog> done
<dholbach> and for those of you running Ubuntu and having ubuntu-dev-tools installed, please run     update-maintainer
<maco> dholbach: is update-maintainer smart enough to do nothing when the debian version is 0?
<dholbach> it will make a change in the packaging indicating "we changed the package for Ubuntu, don't send emails to the Debian maintainers about this please" :-)
<dholbach> maco: I think it's so dumb that it doesn't care, but I might be wrong
<maco> dholbach: heh ok
<dholbach> alright
<balarka> dholbach, after editing i tried dch -i
<balarka> again
<posingaspopular> Latest changelog entry has no Ubuntu version number.
<balarka> it says dch fatal error
<balarka> the backup file already exists
<dholbach> posingaspopular: did you change the version number to 0.6.1-1ubuntu1?
<balarka> please move it before trying again
<maco> balarka: you only run dch -i once
<balarka> oh
<dholbach> posingaspopular: just change it in debian/changelog
<balarka> maco, what exactly is the purpose of it?
<silentsno> you meant if we are running Jaunty, to run update-maintainer
<Pollywog> so running dch more than once is like running dh_make more than once?
<balarka> maco, what if i want to change the log again later?
<dholbach> silentsno: should work in intrepid too
<maco> balarka: well you could manually type a new chunk into debian/changelog if you want, but dch adds the your name, version number, what time it is, your email address junk for you automatically
<dholbach> Pollywog: it will introduce a new changelog every time you run it and save the file afterwards
<maco> balarka: then you do it manually. there should be only 1 changelog entry per package version
<Pollywog> k
<posingaspopular> i dont follow dholbach
<maco> posingaspopular: in debian/changelog, what's the first line?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: when you edit debian/changelog - which version number does it say?
<balarka> maco, got it
<posingaspopular> subvertpy (0.6.1-1build2) jaunty; urgency=low
<maco> posingaspopular: see how it says build2? change that to ubuntu1
<dholbach> posingaspopular: change it to 0.6.1-1ubuntu1 then, please
<maco> posingaspopular: "build" is used when ubuntu has not changed anything but the package has been rebuilt anyway
<maco> posingaspopular: "ubuntu" is used when you make changes
<dholbach> save the file and try again
<posingaspopular> okay now that works
<posingaspopular> yup thanks maco and dholbach
<dholbach> perfect
<dholbach> now please run (when you installed devscripts and cdbs):
<dholbach>      debuild -S -us -uc
<dholbach> remember what I said about source packages in the beginning (orig.tar.gz, diff.gz etc)?
<dholbach> now we're updating the source package for our new version
<dholbach> if you cd .. and run ls
<dholbach> you should see a bunch of new files there
<Pollywog> indeed
<dholbach> so not just subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc and subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.diff.gz
<dholbach> but subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc and subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.diff.gz too
<dholbach> I can't cover it in this session, but if you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto you'll learn about a tool that test-builds packages for you
<dholbach> it will expect such .dsc files from you
<dholbach> ok, let's crack on
<balarka> dholbach, i didnt find any files there
<balarka> on debuild command
<Pollywog> is pbuilder an alternative to chroots for this?
<dholbach> Pollywog: it will set up a chroot :)
<dholbach> Pollywog: automatically
<dholbach> balarka: were you in subvertpy-0.6.1 when you ran debuild?
<balarka> dholbach, yes
<blfgomes> I got this warning: "Exception: apr-config not found. Please set APR_CONFIG environment variable"
<dholbach> balarka: then    cd ..   and    ls    there
<balarka> oh ok
<dholbach> blfgomes: safe to ignore for now
<blfgomes> ok
<dholbach> ok... another handy tool in devscripts is debdiff
<dholbach> if you run           debdiff subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<dholbach> debdiff subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<balarka> dholbach, oh got it
<dholbach> it will show you the differences between the two source packages
<maco> and order matters!
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> can you all please put the output into http://paste.ubuntu.com and give us the link here so we can review them together?
<balarka> dholbach, maco so what is the purpse of this step?
<balarka> to confirm ourselves abt the change we did?
<balarka> by generating diff between two versions?
<dholbach> balarka: show the differences between the original source package (we downloaded initially) and the new source package
<maco> balarka: many developers in ubuntu prefer debdiffs for updating packages
<dholbach> balarka: it's what you'd attach to a bug report saying "this is how I fixed it"
<maco> balarka: this includes the debian/* changes as well as the patch
<balarka> ooh
<balarka> ok
<silentsno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142603/
<maco> it just cuts a few steps out for the people who can actually upload this stuff
<maco> namely, all the steps you just did
<Crusher> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142607/
<balarka> dholbach, when i run the command it says debdiff: fatal error at line 266:
<balarka> Can't read file: subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<dholbach> silentsno: "0.6.1-1ubuntu2" -> "0.6.1-1ubuntu1",  "intrepid" -> "jaunty", I'd also line wrap the changelog entry - other than that: great work!
<blfgomes> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142606/
<Pollywog> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142608/
<dholbach> blfgomes: perfect
<balarka> dholbach, i didnt get the mistake i did
<dholbach> Pollywog: "0.6.1-1ubuntu" -> "0.6.1-1ubuntu1", also the linewrap to 80 characters per line would be nice, other than that: GREAT
<posingaspopular> error http://paste.ubuntu.com/142609/
<dholbach> balarka: what's the last 5 lines of output?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: just do   debdiff subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<balarka>  debdiff subvertpy_0.6.1-1build1.dsc subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<balarka> debdiff: fatal error at line 266:
<balarka> Can't read file: subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<balarka> 1st line is the comand i typed
<dholbach> balarka: is there a file named subvertpy_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc?
<maco> balarka: did you run debuild -S -us -uc as above?
<balarka> dholbach, nope
<balarka> maco, i did
<balarka> maco, i can do it again
<dholbach> balarka: then something must have gone wrong there before
<maco> balarka: what .dsc's *do* you have?
<dholbach> that debdiff output is what you'd attach to the bug report as a solution, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess explains how to get your patch uploaded to Ubuntu!
<dholbach> (after you test-built the package and tested the package a bit)
<balarka> maco, i can see only one 1build1.dsc
<balarka> here
<maco> then it sounds like debuild failed
<posingaspopular> right that worked
<dholbach> I'd like to invite you all to #ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com to ask questions you have about everything related to packaging stuff
<balarka> maco, so what do i do now?
<maco> balarka: try it again and see if it errors at all
<dholbach> posingaspopular: can you pastebin it?
<dholbach> there were a bunch of other questions before
<balarka> maco, so i try the debuild command inside subverty dir
<dholbach> anything you'd like to ask?
<balarka> ?
<dholbach> balarka: yes
<maco> dholbach: the LP: #123456 syntax, it closes on upload, but what if its a FTBFS?
<balarka> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142612/
<dholbach> maco: the bug will be closed on upload (when the uploaded source package is accepted)
<Pollywog> is this all different when the sources use cmake instead of automake?
<balarka> maco, this is what i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/142612/
<balarka> maco, dholbach after debuild command
<silentsno> //time
<dholbach> balarka: I guess you didn't save the changes you made to debian/changelog
<posingaspopular> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142613/
<dholbach> balarka: I'd suggest reading up in the log again and re-try - sorry
<balarka> oh
<balarka> dholbach, sure..
<dholbach> Pollywog: that's a great question
<balarka> dholbach, i will do that
<dholbach> balarka: thanks
<Pollywog> I have had trouble making debs for KDE4 due to cmake
<dholbach> Pollywog: the great thing about the way that Ubuntu and Debian packages are built is that we have one build process wrapped around all kinds of upstream software
<balarka> dholbach, so whats next then?
<balarka> dholbach, we got the diff generated
<dholbach> balarka: we're answering a bunch of questions
<balarka> oh ok
<maco> dholbach: ok so the order of things that happen is fuzzy for me. helpful sponsor uploads the debdiff, buildd does stuff, then accept, then close?
<balarka> dholbach,  i mean in the process of sending upstream
<dholbach> so no matter if it's a python distutils package, or it uses autotools or cmake, there's always a way to build the package
<maco> balarka: in this case, the patch came from upstream, so nothing to do
<dholbach> Pollywog: I'd suggest taking a look at similar source packages (that use cmake already) and compare
<balarka> maco, oh ok
<Pollywog> I will do that, thanks
<balarka> maco, but if we invent the bug fix
<balarka> maco,  how to proceed from here?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: looks great, there's just one thing I'd change a bit:
<dholbach>   * subvertpy/delta.py apply revision 2016 from upstream to fix python 2.6 depreciation. (LP #323270)
<dholbach>   * subvertpy/delta.py: apply revision 2016 from upstream to fix python 2.6 depreciation. (LP: #323270)
<dholbach> posingaspopular: (note the colons)
<maco> balarka: in that case, send the patch to upstream (some will want a but + attachment, others want mail on their mailing list, it varies) and give them a link to the LP bug of people saying it works
<dholbach> maco: so the way things would work from here would be something like:
<Pollywog> and the debian/rules seem to be different for KDE4 packages, but I suspect that will be covered in a future session  <hint>
<dholbach>  - test-build the package
<dholbach>  - test the package
<posingaspopular> what colons dholbach?
<maco> posingaspopular: after the filename
<dholbach>  - attach debdiff to bug report
<maco> dholbach: yeah the two steps everyone forgets :P
<dholbach>  - subscribe sponsors team who review the patch
<dholbach>  - they review it
<dholbach>  - upload it
<dholbach>  - bug gets automatically closed
<dholbach>  - build attempted
<dholbach>  - fix delivered to the world
<dholbach> sure the package could fail to build
<dholbach> but that's usually a new bug ;-)
<maco> ok then
<balarka> maco, thanks
<posingaspopular> i dont follow, what is wrong there?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: also the colon in (LP: #323270)
<balarka> maco, what is LP btw..
<maco> hrm that reminds me that i got a build failure email...
<dholbach> posingaspopular: it's the syntax
<Pollywog> LaunchPad
<maco> balarka: launchpad in two letters
<balarka> oh ok :P
<dholbach> Pollywog: can you follow up with that suggestion at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training ?
<dholbach> pkpdjh: you had a question too?
<maco> dholbach: if i got a build failure email due to "its beta, the repos were broken when the buildd went through" how do i try to get it rebuilt for that architecture?
<Crusher> dholbach: did my debdiff look alright? (http://paste.ubuntu.com/142607/)
<Pollywog> k I thought that was for the ppl who present the trainings
<dholbach> maco: ask in #ubuntu-motu for somebody to attempt a rebuild for you
<Pollywog> I will do that
<dholbach> Pollywog: there's a "suggested sessions" or somtehing
<maco> dholbach: ok thanks
<dholbach> Crusher: sorry, must have missed it - checking it out
<dholbach> Crusher: that looks perfect
<Crusher> cool
<dholbach> wow... great work everybofy!
<maco> pbuilder one? please? i have no idea how to make a new pbuilder when i reinstall :(
<dholbach> feel yourselves clapped on the shoulder
<dholbach> maco: please put it on the wiki page
<balarka> i did :P
<dholbach> ok... any other questions?
<Pollywog> dholbach and others: thanks for the session.  It was great
<Crusher> great session dholbach, thankyou
<posingaspopular> what syntax?
<dholbach> posingaspopular: (LP: #123456)
<cel_> dholbach: many thanks for your time
<silentsno> thanks dholbach.
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody for participating and helping out
<ara> dholbach: thanks for the session!
<dholbach> I hope you found it fun and helpful and I'll see you in the next sessions too
<brand0con> dholbach: thanks for the session.  look forward to more of them
<cel_> See ya all in the next one!
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted has some reading material until the next session!
<nanbanjin> somebody mentioned some blog of yours dholbach...
<dholbach> nanbanjin: you mean http://daniel.holba.ch/blog ?
<dholbach> nanbanjin: or http://ubuntupackaging.wordpress.com/ ?
<maco> the latter
<maco> that was me that mentioned it
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> great
<pkpdjh> My question before was about what to do when patches don't work the first time.
<dholbach> pkpdjh: ah yes...
<pkpdjh> dholbach: I was just curious if there's a way to track changes and find the disconnect.  (Sorry, I'm a noob.)
<dholbach> pkpdjh: that's where revision control systems are really helpful - they make it much much easier to either merge a complete branch (plus its history) or just cherry-pick a certain change
<dholbach> pkpdjh: when you just work with the diff and patch tools, you have to live with their limitations
<pkpdjh> Sure.
<pkpdjh> dholbach: I had one other problem.  I had some syntax errors or something in my debian/changelog file.
<dholbach> patch is quite clever when thing just moved around a few lines or something like that, but if the context around it changed, it simply gives up and you need to merge manually
<dholbach> pkpdjh: what happened there?
<pkpdjh> I got an error that said "unrecognized line"
<blfgomes> dholbach: Thank you for your time and patience! The whole concept of having a session like this is really incredible.
<dholbach> pkpdjh: can you put up the log of it somewhere?
<dholbach> blfgomes: I'm very glad you enjoyed it - there's more to come and I hope we'll have a lot of people fixing bugs soon :)
<pkpdjh> dholbach: In my noobness, I will have to find time to learn how everyone was pasting their logs before I get too deep over my head.
<dholbach> pkpdjh: oh, don't worry, just load up http://paste.ubuntu.com and paste the log of the error in there
<dholbach> right now I can't tell where the "unrecognized line" error comes from
<nanbanjin> thank you very much dholbach. I ran all in the sandbox of my imagination but will go through the logs later and try it on my own
<dholbach> nanbanjin: awesome... hope you enjoyed it
<pkpdjh> dholbach: okay it is there.
<dholbach> pkpdjh: can you post the link here?
<pkpdjh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142622/
<dholbach> gracias
<dholbach> pkpdjh: can you paste the top entry of debian/changelog ?
<pkpdjh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/142625/
<dholbach> pkpdjh: try putting two spaces instead of one in front of the "*"
<dholbach> so "  * bla bla bla" instead of " * bla bla bla"
<dholbach> (if that makes sense)
<pkpdjh> damn whitespace!
<pkpdjh> That fixed it.
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> it's very picky, I agree :-)
 * maco bets guido van rossum had a hand in this
<dholbach> no, I doubt it
<dholbach> most of the machinery behind devscripts etc is written in perl
<pkpdjh> dholbach: Okay.  Now I have to play catch up on the rest of the tutorial.  I followed along, but I couldn't do the steps.
<maco> O_O
 * maco hides
<dholbach> pkpdjh: just let me know how it goes
<dholbach> once you figured out dch, debdiff, debuild, etc. and used them a couple of times, you'll see that that's just "tools"
<posingaspopular> dholbach: you are going to have to point out this syntax you are talking about, i dont see it
<dholbach> and the interesting part is the "detective stuff" like chasing down where to find the patch and so on
<pkpdjh> dholbach: I'm sure it will go fine, but it will probably go tomorrow. I'm in the western U.S.A. ;)
<dholbach> posingaspopular: what I meant is: if you want the bug to be automatically closed, you have to use the "(LP: #123456)" syntax
<dholbach> posingaspopular: and can't use "(LP: 123456)" because the build daemons don't understand it
<dholbach> posingaspopular: actually it's    LP: #<number>
<maco> as in teh open parenthesis, L, P, colon, space, hash, ....
 * maco slaps self
<dholbach> pkpdjh: enjoy it and sleep tight
<maco> no more lex!
<dholbach> I'll put up the logs in a bit
<dholbach> have a great day everybody
<posingaspopular> oh okay, that makes sense :P
<posingaspopular> # is the bug number
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> or the bug number is after the "#" sign
<posingaspopular> im sitting here getting all worked up because i couldn't figure out what you were talking about
<posingaspopular> lol
<dholbach> don't get worked up just because of that :-)
<dholbach> ok... take care and see you in #ubuntu-motu
<henux> good day
<Andphe> hey guys, there is in somewhere the logs from the session of today ?
<maco> Andphe: they should end up being linked on the wiki page about training sessions
<Andphe> maco, thank you
<Hobbsee> it's linked off planet.ubuntu.com and off http://ubuntupackaging.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/first-packaging-training-session/
<Andphe> Hobbsee, thanks
<Hobbsee> y/w
<ikt> is there any archive for the class this morning?
<ikt> or log
<blfgomes> ikt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
<nanbanjin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-04-02
<ikt> cheers :)
<Pollywog> I forgot to ask the question I wanted to ask last night
<Pollywog> what if a package has no dbg package?
<Pollywog> for example, I cannot find a dgb or dbgsym package for konqueror but konqueror has an annoying bug
<dapatrick> Today's training happened already, correct?
<pleia2> dapatrick: yes, you can find logs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs/2009-04-02
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Classroom || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-classroom | Upcoming: 9 Apr @ 00:00 UTC: Q&A Session: Linux Permissions; 9 Apr 2009 @ 12:00 UTC: bzr builddeb --in-15-minutes | Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find out the UTC time
<dapatrick> pleia2: Thanks. I totally spaced on the time.  For some reason I was thinking 6:00p.m. UTC.
<pleia2> oops :) we list all times as 24 time, so that would be 18:00
<pleia2> s/24/24 hour
<alexander_> Hy , I need informations about packing lessons
<alexander_> date -u
<alexander_> can someone help-me ? I need informations about ubuntu packing lessons
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-04-03
<DasEi> so first of april is gone, what are we gonna do today ?
<Hardik> Anybody has recorded yesterday's dholbach session on "Packaging Training: Fixing an Ubuntu bug"?
<Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
<Hardik> Hobbsee: Thanks :)
<Hobbsee> y/w
<peedy> join #suse
<embrik> hi
<embrik> anybody
<thisfred> hi embrik
<embrik> hi
<Mamarok> embrik: there are no classes today, check the topic
<embrik> I would really like to use ubuntu on my workstations - but I can't figure out how to setup server with "roamin profile" - oops ok
<embrik> but - even if there aren't any classes - does anybody know a solution to my question? I've got 150 workstations I'd like to install ubuntu on, instead of skolelinux (debian-edu)
<BUGabundo> hey
<BUGabundo> trying to make my 1st patch
<BUGabundo> need help branching in LP https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/mobile-broadband-provider-info/mobile-broadband-provider-info.ubuntu
<BUGabundo> what do I need to do?
<nhandler> BUGabundo: 'bzr branch lp:~network-manager/mobile-broadband-provider-info/mobile-broadband-provider-info.ubuntu' but this is also the wrong channel to ask in
<BUGabundo> nhandler: sure that does it for offline! how can I do it on LP?
 * BUGabundo launchpad
<nhandler> BUGabundo: Your branch will show up on Launchpad if you do a 'bzr push' to a different location.
<BUGabundo> thanks nhandler
<BUGabundo> taking it to #lp
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-04-04
<woyzeck> a aula do dia 2 sera disponibilizada em algum local?
<woyzeck> #join ubuntu-br
<badnerd> hey
<WillyWaller> any teacher in?
<pleia2> WillyWaller: if you're looking for support you want #ubuntu :)
<pleia2> this is just a channel where classes are hosted by a variety of teams and teachers
<WillyWaller> any kind of classes?
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom has our current schedule
<pleia2> as well as details about the project
<WillyWaller> ok thx
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-04-05
<dtchen> smitty__: just keep me updated of your progress
<smitty__> dtchen, sorry, did you mean for me to start the process again?
<dtchen> smitty__: yes
<dtchen> remove the directories and tarball, redownload, re-extract, etc.
<smitty__> ah okay
<smitty__> alright the directories are removed and I just redownloaded and extracted the tar so I'll run dh_make
<smitty__> I selected a single binary and the basics of maintainer/email/date etc
<smitty__> dtchen, It gave me an error saying "could not find wmforkplop_0.9.3.orig.tar.gz"  What I did previously was copy the downloaded tar into the source directory and reran dh_make.  Is that the correct thing to do?
<dtchen> ah
<dtchen> how did you download and extract the tarball?
<dtchen> did you use file-roller from within firefox, or did you wget/curl the url?
<smitty__> I used wget
<dtchen> ok, can you pastebin output from ls -l .. ?
<dtchen> assuming you're currently inside the extracted and dh_make'd directory
<smitty__> Here you go: http://pastebin.com/m24f6add2
<smitty__> woops sorry
<smitty__> one moment
<smitty__> http://pastebin.com/m3615227c there we go.
<dtchen> interesting. you may be able to work around it by using cp -a ../wmforkplop-0.9.3.tar.gz ../wmforkplop_0.9.3.orig.tar.gz
<dtchen> sorry, that would be cp -p
<smitty__> That fixed the errors.  I'll continue making my changes
<dtchen> ok
<smitty__> Sweet it built!
<smitty__> and it installed!
<smitty__> Thanks a lot for your help dtchen.
<dtchen> yw
<OpenOffice_> sal
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-04-05
<hodges> jesus I just noticed how many ubuntu channels are on this server
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-04-07
<sunnely> c est quoi ce vide
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Current Session: The Patch Review Process - Instructor: nigelb || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<cjohnston> 17
<persia> So, we've run into a bit of a scheduling confusion.  Folks who have come for the Patch Review Process session are encouraged to stop by #ubuntu-reviews, where questions will be answered.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
<persia> But no presentation will happen right now.  Sorry about that.
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-04-08
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Event: Packaging Training Session - Current Session: Q&A session about the DMB work - Instructor: geser || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<geser> Hello
<geser> Welcome to the "Q&A session about the DMB work"
<geser> My name is Michael Bienia and I'm one of the seven DMB members and leading you now through this session
<geser> Before I start a small disclaimer: although the DMB has ca common understanding we are all still human and each DMB member has his own opionon and interpretation of some parts. So this session might get biased by my own opinion.
<geser> Let's us come to the first topic: What tasks does the DMB have?
<geser> Mostly we have to deal with applications for ubuntu-contributors, Per-package upload access (PPU), MOTU, core-devs and upload permissions for non-delegated package sets
<geser> The differences between those is as follows:
<geser> - ubuntu-contributors: This just gives Ubuntu membership but though development contributions (the other kind of contributions are still handled by the other boards)
<geser> It gives no upload rights of any kind or any special status, just Ubuntu membership
<geser> and can be understood as a reward for those on their road to upload permissions
<geser> the requirements for ubuntu-contributors are the same as for ubuntu-members: "sustained and significant contributions"
<geser> The first upload rights come through PPU
<geser> This gives someone upload rights to one package (or a small set of packages).
<geser> It is expected that the applicant knows the packaging of those package (easily shown with sponsored uploads of those)
<geser> and it is good to know some basic Ubuntu policies (as far as they are related to that package)
<geser> PPU is for person who care about one or two (or some more) packages
<geser> It shouldn't be understood as a general path for broader upload permissions (but as the interests might broaden over time one can apply for more upload right later)
<geser> For the most was the next step in the past after ubuntu-contributors to apply for MOTU. With the still ongoing archive reorganisation this has lead to some more options: MOTU and upload rights for a package sets.
<geser> Some package sets (like ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu, edubuntu) have a delegated body processing the applications for those and are not handled by the DMB
<geser> Upload rights for MOTU and a package sets don't differ much. The biggest difference is the focus of contributions.
<geser> While for a package set the focus is on the packages in this set, MOTU has a more general focus set on the unseeded packages.
<geser> For both a broad set of package skills and knowledge of the Ubuntu policies is expected.
<geser> A guideline is to contribute for around one release cycle to have participated once in each phase of development.
<geser> And the last team for which DMB handles the application is "core-dev".
<geser> core-devs are like MOTUs generalists but they can upload nearly everything
<geser> They take of those packages which are currently in the "main" component
<geser> Therefore they are expected to have good packaging skills, knowlegde of the Ubuntu policies and a good judgement on the changes they apply as they might affect a good basis of the Ubuntu users.
<geser> So the next questions is: How do I apply?
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess describes the process of how to apply and links to a template (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/DeveloperApplicationTemplate)
<geser> This template is a guide for how an application should look like
<geser> A good application should have around 3-5 endorsements. But his depends on the team one applies to.
<geser> The more endorsements one gets the better as they show a good integration into the current team
<geser> So what does the DMB look at when processing an application?
<geser> First we look at the application page, so it should contain all relevant links which might benefit your application
<geser> We also look at your contributions as linked in your application or LP page (if sponsored uploads don't linked to you on LP because your sponsor added his own changes to this upload, please link those uploads in your application page)
<geser> We also check the quality of your contributions. The amount of contributions doesn't really matter but a certain amount is excepted to be able to judge your packaging skills.
<geser> And of course the more complicated ones are of more interest than the easy one, so list them in your application page.
<geser> We also look at how you handled bug reports.
<geser> And as we can't monitor everything an applicant did (or not did), we rely on the endorsements from others.
<geser> The last step is to appear on a DMB meeting where we ask you some questions.
<geser> Those questions are mostly related to parts of your application page or packages you worked on (nothing to worry about).
<geser> When we are done, the DMB votes on your application and you see the result (assuming the vote reached quorum).
<geser> Quesions? Comments?
<geser> Doesn't look like there are any questions left.
<ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<geser> Thanks to everybody who attended (or not attended).
<ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-04-09
<Golumm> I was upgrading my ubuntu to 9.10 but suddently my network disconnected. How can I resume the upgrade??
<nhandler> Golumm: Try #ubuntu for support
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-05
<tiox> Hey fellas. I'm writing an assignment for my college about how Ubuntu can be a vialbe alternative to WIndows, and I'd like to know if there are any success stories of colleges, schools and/or students who have succeeded with using Ubuntu. Anybody got links you can give off hand?
<pleia2> tiox: this channel is for actual teaching of online classes, you probably want #edubuntu for that sort of thing
<pleia2> tiox: however, I am part of partimus.org (we're a non-profit which put ubuntu computers in schools, among other things)
<tiox> Permission to speak in private?
<pleia2> sure
<ari__> ...
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Basics of Bug Triaging - Instructors: ddecator - Slides: http://is.gd/CJk1ex
<ClassBot> Slides for Basics of Bug Triaging: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/slides/misc/BasicsOfBugTriaging.pdf
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<ddecator> Alright, is everything all set?
<pleia2> ddecator: yep, you're good to go! :)
<ddecator> Perfect! Welcome everyone. Today I'll be talking about the basics of Bug Triage
<ddecator> Before we begin, I just want to cover a couple of things
<ddecator> First, this channel is moderated, so only pleia2 and myself can talk in here. #ubuntu-classroom-chat is open, and all questions should be asked there
<ddecator> Questions should begin with "QUESTION:" so ClassBot will pick them up and allow me to go through them easily
<ddecator> This way, things will not get confusing if people ask multiple questions at once
<ddecator> Second, the slideshow ClassBot linked to is an in-depth slideshow I made. I have no intentions of going through the entire thing slide-for-slide today, but there are a few slides I will reference, and it may be helpful for you to save for later
<ddecator> That being said, are there any quick questions before we begin?
<ddecator> Alright, then we'll get started. If you have questions, ask them at any time, and when we have time I'll go through them. I plan on keeping this more informal so there will be plenty of time for questions. That way I will not repeat too much of what you all already know
<ddecator> First, I want to address a fairly common question: Why is Bug Triage important?
<ddecator> Anyone who takes a quick look at all of the bugs hosted on Launchpad, even for a specific package, will see that there are a LOT of reports. The majority of these reports are incomplete, and many may be duplicates, or not even real bug reports
<ddecator> It would take a long time for developers to go through them all, and that would mean less time for them to work on actually fixing the bugs
<ddecator> That's where triagers come in. We go through the reports, request missing information, clean them up, organize them, and get them prepared for the developers so they can concentrate on fixing the bugs
<ddecator> Effective triage is very important in maintaining the flow of work in software development, and a project as large as Ubuntu especially needs the extra help
<ddecator> So, why help with bug triage?
<ddecator> It's a relatively easy way for people to get involved in the community, and we're always in need of extra help
<ddecator> If you're interested in helping, you may wonder "Where do I begin?"
<ddecator> Most of the information you will need is on the wiki, but it does not answer every question, and right now it's a lot of information that can be overwhelming (do not worry, we're working on a new structure in order to make things easier for everyone)
<ddecator> To begin helping with triage, you'll need to have a Launchpad account setup. To save time, I will not go into detail on how to do so, but it should be relatively easy to figure out
<ddecator> Once you have that setup, it's time to get your hands dirty and start working on some bugs!
<ddecator> Where you begin is up to you, but I highly recommend new triagers start with bugs that have the status of "New"
<ddecator> These bugs are usually untouched, and it gives you the opportunity to work with a bug from the very beginning
<ddecator> [SLIDE 6]
<ddecator> Rather than post a really long link here, there is a hyperlink on this slide which will bring you to a page with bugs that have been untouched (most likely) and are "New"
<ddecator> It's generally a good idea to begin with a package that you use and are familiar with, and then find a bug report that sounds fairly simple
<ddecator> As you gain experience, you will want to push yourself to work on different packages and more challenging reports
<ddecator> Once you find a bug report you're comfortable working on, it's time to begin the triage process
<ddecator> Alright, are there any questions so far?
<ddecator> Great! Then let's move on
<ddecator> There is no specific order for the following steps when working with a bug report, but I'll give you the one that has worked best for me
<ddecator> The first thing you will want to do is read the report and any possible comments so you become familiar with what the report is for
<ddecator> After you understand the report, you should ask yourself if this is really a bug report or a support question
<ddecator> Most of the time, support questions are easy to identify. For example, the report might say "I can't figure out how to connect to my wireless internet. Can someone tell me how to do it?"
<ddecator> This clearly is not reporting a bug, but instead is asking for support. If the report you are looking at is asking a question, you will want to convert the report into a question
<ddecator> [SLIDE 9]
<ddecator> Thankfully, Launchpad makes it very easy to do just that
<ddecator> In the top-right corner, I have highlighted the "Convert to a question" link
<ddecator> Clicking that will allow you to convert the bug report into a question in Launchpad Answers. It will also give you the chance to leave a comment explaining your action. There is a stock response for this, and if you have the Greasemonkey extension for Launchpad installed it should fill that in for you, but I'll cover that at the end
<ddecator> If it was a question, then you're done with the report (unless you want to help answer the question)
<ddecator> Assuming it was not a question, then you're ready to move on to the next step
<ddecator> This can be two different things
<ddecator> If you do not understand the report, then you will want to request more information from the user
<ddecator> If you do understand the report, or after the user clarifies the problem, then you will want to look for duplicates
<ddecator> When a bug affects a lot of people, it is almost inevitable that multiple people will report the same issue
<ddecator> Some users do not look to see if something has been reported already, and others may think the problem is different, so duplicates are common
<ddecator> Searching for duplicates is something that you will get better at over time
<ddecator> One option for searching is using Launchpad itself
<ddecator> You can limit the search to the package and search for specific words that might be in the title
<ddecator> Or, you can use an outside search engine (which is my preferred method)
<ddecator> Using a large search engine, such as Google, will look for your search terms in the entire report, including title, description, and comments
<ddecator> This can make it easier to find a report that has a misleading title but describes the exact bug you're looking for
<ddecator> [SLIDE 11]
<ddecator> Sorry, looks like the screenshot on that slide did not scale well
<ddecator> But, as you can see, the method for using an outside search engine to search bugs on Launchpad is to type "site:bugs.launchpad.net <search terms>" where you replace <search terms> with your actual search
<ddecator> As an example, you can search "site:bugs.launchpad.net nautilus graphical issue"
<ddecator> It's a good idea to try various search terms when looking for a duplicate
<ddecator> If you do find a duplicate, then you want to mark one of the reports as a duplicate of the other
<ddecator> You will want to look at the reports, decide which one has the most information, and make that the "master" report
<ddecator> All duplicates of the bug should then be marked as a duplicate of that "master" report so there is one central report for users to and developers to reference
<ddecator> [SLIDE 16]
<ddecator> In the top-right, above the link to convert the report into a question, is a link to mark the report as a duplicate
<ddecator> You will click this on the report that is the duplicate, not on the "master" report
<ddecator> You will then enter the bug number (found right under the title of the bug), and then leave a comment explaining that you marked it as a duplicate because the problem has already been reported. There is also a stock response for this. By doing so, the reporter can go to the "master" report and add any extra information they might have
<ddecator> After the report is marked as a duplicate, that report is taken care of
<ddecator> So, what if the report you're working on is not a question and is not a duplicate?
<ddecator> There are a few things you can do. First, if anything is unclear, ask the user to clarify and add information
<ddecator> Once you fully understand how to reproduce the bug, you may want to try and reproduce it on your own system. Whether you do this or not depends on how severe the bug is. To be safe, it's a good idea to have a Virtual Machine and/or a Live CD that you can use for testing. Doing this is not required, but it gives you first-hand experience of the bug and it allows you to confirm the report
<ddecator> We only confirm bugs that we can actually reproduce ourselves. We do not mark a bug confirmed just because multiple people claim to experience it. Afterall, it could be several users making the same user error, and we only want to confirm real bugs
<ddecator> Once you have confirmed the bug yourself, or have enough information that you do not feel it is necessary to do so, you want to make sure the report has enough information for the developers to work on the issue
<ddecator> How much information is needed depends on the report, the issue, and the package
<ddecator> You want to make sure the report is as specific and detailed as possible
<ddecator> If logs are needed, a more advanced triager who is more familiar with the package can request them. Thankfully, apport usually collects the necessary logs (if the user reported the bug using apport) so this makes things easier. Knowing what logs are needed just comes with experience
<ddecator> A quick note: Apport is an application that collects information from a user's system automatically when they report a bug. They have to use apport for this to happen. If apport was used, detailed information about their system will be in the description of the bug and files will be attached. If these are missing, you can request that the user runs apport so it will add that information to the report. There is also a stock response for 
<ddecator> Alright, so the report has all of the information it needs (as far as you can tell)
<ddecator> The next step is to decide how important the bug is
<ddecator> Only BugControl members can assign importance, but it's helpful if triagers suggest an importance
<ddecator> Details on importance can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
<ddecator> Finally, go to #ubuntu-bugs or email the BugSquad mailing list and request that the bug be marked Triaged with whatever importance you feel it deserves
<ddecator> If the report is all set, someone will take care of it for you. If more information is needed, someone will either request it, or ask you to request it. If they ask you to request more information, it's to help you learn
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ddecator> There are NO stupid questions, so feel free to ask anything in #ubuntu-bugs, and if you tell you to do something it's only to help you learn
<ddecator> OK, real quick, I want to point out a tool that will help you triage
<ddecator> [SLIDE 32]
<ddecator> On this slide is a link to a PPA that contains an extension for Firefox. This extension will add stock response options to reports for you and make things easier
<ddecator> [SLIDE 34]
<ddecator> This shows what is added
<ddecator> Clicking the little drop-down arrow for a bug report will allow you to do multiple things at once, such as leave a comment, change the status, and subscribe to the report. Doing it all at once reduces the number of emails sent to others subscribed to the bug
<ddecator> [SLIDE 29]
<ddecator> There is also a link to a wiki page with stock responses there
<ddecator> Note: Stock responses are great, but I -highly- recommend you read the response before you use it. That way, you will not thank the user for "reporting this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better" with each comment, and will not tell them to "please use apport next time" if they already did use apport
<ddecator> Alright, I think that covers everything I wanted to discuss. Sorry I talked longer than I meant to
<ddecator> I'm open to any questions :)
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ddecator> Once again, if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-bugs
<ddecator> We also have a group mentoring team we're working on improving, so users can join that if they're interested
<ddecator> Finally, you can email me directly if you have any questions for me: ddecator at ubuntu dot com
<ddecator> Thanks for being willing to help out!
<ddecator> Oh, and if you have any suggestions for improving the BugSquad wiki, please email me!
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<rakshasa> Can anyone tell me how I should persist my xinput settings under Ubuntu10.10??
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-06
<nigelb> Pendulum: CONGRATS :)
<kimi> hi to all
<kdoandal> hi
<ubuntu1> !
<ravenreturns> ?
<ubuntu1> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-07
<opera> hello
<opera> i am a new bird
<opera> who can help me
<opera> where can i get help
<NegativeZer0> hello there
<rsaidan> hi all, i'm trying to run add-apt-repository behind a proxy but it doesn't seem to work. does anyone have experience with this?
<nigelb> you should probably ask in #ubuntu, that's the support channel
<rsaidan> cool, thanks :)
<ariabbas> ...
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-08
<binox> im hoping to find help with removing litestep and replacing it with explorer on my windows partition by using ubuntu, can anyone hlep
<nhandler> binox: Try #ubuntu for support
<binox> ty
<broeisi> exit
<gaurav__> hi guys
<GauravButola> need help regardin Glade Interface Designer
<serfus> GauravButola, this is not the channel you are looking for.
<serfus> GauravButola, search for more info at http://glade.gnome.org/
<GauravButola> serfus: I thought someone experienced might help hear, will seet the link BTW thanks
<GauravButola> here*
 * jcastro taps the mic
<jcastro> check check
<jcastro> raise your hand if you're almost ready for Q+A!
<deuxpi> o/
<nigelb> \o
<DBO> o/
<jono> bring it!
<jono> alright!
<jono> hi everyone!
<jono> welcome to yet another weekly IRC Q+A session - no better way to top off your week than getting the answers to all your burning questions!
<jono> today we have a real treat - David Barth, the Desktop Experience Engineering Manager
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Current Session: Q and A with Desktop Experience Team Manager - Instructors: dbarth, DBO
<dbarth> hi everyone
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/08/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<jono> what does that mean? it means that David manages the engineers who work on Unity, the application indicators, notify-osd, the global menu and many of the other desktop
<jono> innovations we ship in Ubuntu
<jono> he is dbarth on IRC, he is here, and he is primed to answer all your questions
<jono> asking a question is simple:
<jono> 1. make sure you are in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jono> 2. ask a question by prefixing it with 'QUESTION' - as an example: QUESTION: when can we expect a new icon theme for Unity?
<jono> 3. dbarth will go through the questions one by one
<jono> alright, so without further ado - ladies and gentlemen...boys and girls...dbarth!
<dbarth> thanks jono!
<jono> :-)
<dbarth> wow, i see lots of people here on the channel
<ClassBot> zamm asked: Why can't we minimnize windows when we click on active icons in unity launcher?
<dbarth> let's see the questions then
<dbarth> it's mostly a desgin question, but i'll try to asnwer
<dbarth> the purpose of the launcher is to switch between applications, tasks
<dbarth> it's not really a window manager
<dbarth> it's a task manager
<dbarth> there are some options in the quicklists associated with launchers to let you open a new window sometimes
<dbarth> but again this belongs to the task oriented nature of the launcher
<dbarth> to manage windows, we provide buttons on the top panel, next to the application name
<dbarth> does that answer your question?
<ClassBot> jono asked: When can we expect to see a fresh icon theme?
<dbarth> ahah, another design question
<dbarth> i'm better at nuts and bolts you know, but the short asnwer shoud be: next cycle
<dbarth> the icon theme requires some non trivial efforts to manage all constraints and design directions
<dbarth> and for natty, unity on the desktop took most of the cycles available in the team
<ClassBot> AlanBell asked: why does unity not get affected by compiz zoom and colour filters?
<dbarth> not affected? what do you mean?
<DBO> I got this one :)
<DBO> Unity is rendered by a toolkit called Nux
<dbarth> DBO: go ahead
<DBO> nux is quite nice but as of yet does not understand the methods compiz uses to transform the screen
<DBO> this means that compiz will transform, but nux stays nice and centered
<DBO> this is nice for some things (like expo mode), not nice for others (liek screen zoom)
<ClassBot> paglia_s asked: when  will we be able to theme unity?
<dbarth> well, you can already theme a bit of it
<dbarth> mostly for accessibility reasons
<dbarth> ie, to provide a high contrast theme for people with disabilities
<dbarth> unity is not really designed to be themable
<dbarth> it can use theme elements (colors, fonts, etc.) where it makes sense
<dbarth> but in general is designed to be "as it is"
<dbarth> the underlying reason for that is mostly consistency and visual identity
<dbarth> consistency to be able to use visual elements made of colors, shapes and other forms or artwork
<dbarth> to quickly convey something that is meaninful to the user
<dbarth> themability is then difficult to get into the mix, as it would blur some of that, and render the interface unintelligible, where it's not using explicit text or icons
<ClassBot> Rajiv_ asked: how much energy efficient does it going to be ??
<dbarth> energy efficient
<dbarth> by that i assume you mean: how much do we care about battery life
<dbarth> we do care a lot
<dbarth> my engineers do care an awful lot
<dbarth> they go to great extents to not use battery too much
<dbarth> in particular, that's reflected in the GL toolkit we're using in Unity
<dbarth> to go super fast to the GPU
<dbarth> but avoid redrawing everytime
<dbarth> or in the way ARGB windows are used and how they are "deployed" in different processes
<dbarth> to avoid having the drivers suck the battery themselves
<dbarth> so, to summarize, the rendering side of Unity has been really designed from the ground up to be energy efficient
<dbarth> we probably have more work to do on other areas
<dbarth> but that will be a good topic for O
<ClassBot> Winterpeg asked: Would Ubuntu provide an easy way to install Gnome 3 in both LTS and interim versions? I am trying Unity, but would welcome the ability to choose. Thank you.
<dbarth> i must admit i don't know
<dbarth> i haven't test gnome 3 that much since the last uds
<jcastro> GNOME3 is available in a PPA
<dbarth> i guess its a question better answered by the desktop team
<dbarth> right, thanks jcastro
<dbarth> most of our libraries have flags to build with gnome3 however
<dbarth> so we're ready for the switch
<ClassBot> Walther0 asked: Is the Unity bar going to remain as is? The dock-like behavior is not working intuitively - only way to get the last application icons to show properly is to drag the mouse sideways from the very bottom or by scrolling the list, not by the intuitive way as Cairo-dock or Awn, by just moving the mouse the previous application icons "dodge"
<dbarth> hmm, the autoscroll behavior you mean?
<dbarth> it's there but was disabled during the cycle, and we're still testing to see if that can be re-established safely
<dbarth> the short and simple asnwer is: we'll ship like it is; we may provide a SRU/ppa version once we finish testing
<dbarth> but the launcher bar will continue to evolve and improve in O
<ClassBot> shauno asked: What's the logic behind a window's label being positioned differently relative to the global menu, depending on the maximized (or not) state of the window?
<dbarth> asking for clarification in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, sorry ;)
<dbarth> well, so the idea is that
<dbarth> 1. the application name and window title is the important information
<dbarth> so we prioritiez that in the panel initially
<dbarth> 2. we want to keep that information around, as the user interacts with menus
<dbarth> but we don't want to have menus slide far on the right
<dbarth> so we take a fixed size thing and fade
<dbarth> that's the design we've worked on this cycle; we're hearing the feedback, and we'll see how that can evolve next cycle
<dbarth> i feel the balance between information and usability is corect right now
<dbarth> but we're always thinking about new and better ways to refine that
<ClassBot> davmor2 asked: Is the plan to keep using compiz or will this be swapped out for clutter possibly again in the future?
<dbarth> hmm
<dbarth> first let me say again that the clutter change was not decided easily
<dbarth> but basically we were hitting a limit
<dbarth> compiz pretty much allows us to integrate with the window manager and still bring our own rendering infrastructure with us
<dbarth> as DBO explained
<dbarth> so to anwer your question
<dbarth> no, we don't intend to switch once more
<dbarth> we'll continue investing into Unity, as a compiz plugin
<dbarth> and continue to invest in making compiz a good host for our shell
<ClassBot> nigelb asked: Last cycle Unity had a bunch of issues with accessiblity, how are we doing on that front at the end of this cycle? Are you happy with the pace of things on this front?
<dbarth> no
<dbarth> i'm not
<dbarth> rather
<dbarth> i had hoped to have a lot more ready for release time, and we're not totally there
<dbarth> we do have panel and launcher accessible
<dbarth> we have parts of the dash (particularly alt-f2) working in a branch
<dbarth> but i had hoped to have unity be the default choice for people with disabilities either
<dbarth> instead of that, we'll recommend using the classic session for this cycle
<dbarth> i think that it has become the official decision at this point
<dbarth> that said, i want to underline the efforts that have been made on the a11y front
<dbarth> it was not easy
<dbarth> but we've made sure all of the unity building blocks pretty much understand the a11y requirements now
<ClassBot> nshiell asked: Do you see Unity being used on the Desktop (or ust for small screens e.g. netbooks)?
<dbarth> honestly both
<dbarth> what we've learned by starting on netbooks and small screens
<dbarth> means that we've learned and focused on what's essential for users
<dbarth> so it applies rather nicely to desktop and big screens
<dbarth> now, the 2 form factors are different
<dbarth> but the work that we've done during this cycle was to make the changes necessary to scale
<dbarth> to larger screens
<dbarth> more viewports for example
<dbarth> better multi-monitor support
<dbarth> or a window mode / partial overlay for the dash
<dbarth> and the challenge of getting all apps to use the global menu
<dbarth> with some very good results
<dbarth> with most if not all of the top apps being compatible with it inow
<dbarth> all gnome apps
<dbarth> plus firefox and thunderbird
<dbarth> Libre Office even
<dbarth> i wish we could have chromium now
<dbarth> let's see in Oniric
<ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Apparently Unity might not be default for 11.04, because of bugs, and instead Ubuntu Classic Desktop, what do you think?
<dbarth> nice, fully loaded, question ;)
<dbarth> we are committing to providing a quality shell for Ubuntu
<dbarth> committed even
<dbarth> all of the teams in Ubuntu do test our work, and provide us with their frank, honest feedback
<dbarth> and sometimes i take big slaps, i can tell you
<dbarth> but if i look at the test resutls
<dbarth> it tells me that we're good to go for Natty
<dbarth> we have no major regression, we have no nuclear issue anymore
<dbarth> we're still monitoring bugs every hours, especially now that we're in beta
<dbarth> and we won't stop until the cd ships
<ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What do you think of Gnome Shell?
<dbarth> i think Gnome Shell is an interesting project
<dbarth> for providing a a new shell for the Gnome Platform
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dbarth> Unity is another interesting project pursuing a similar goal
<ClassBot> th3pr0ph3t asked: When finished, will Unity have the same features as gnome or are users expected to change the way they work?
<dbarth> there is a definition problem here, in fact
<dbarth> if you mean gnome classic (ie 2.x) probably not, though we're taking that as a baseline
<dbarth> because it has been the default desktop in all of Ubuntu before
<dbarth> now, Unity obviosuly is not the classic session, so users may have to change some of their habits
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<dbarth> we think (and our user researches show it) that we're making changes in the right direction
<dbarth> to have a more usable desktop
<dbarth> not only for normal computer users, but for people new or not accustomed to them
<dbarth> now, the Gnome project provides both a platform and has different shells now
<dbarth> (though GS would prefer to consider itself the one and only)
<dbarth> so users will have to try and choose the one they prefer
<dbarth> that's coopetition
<ClassBot> basso asked: Some docks have problem putting wine shortcuts, how does unity handle this?
<dbarth> yes, we still have a problem with those shortcuts
<dbarth> we have the best guys on the problem though
<dbarth> we kidnapped the Docky team
<DBO> yeah
<DBO> wine is still an issue
<DBO> we are working on it
<dbarth> we've trapped them in a room
<dbarth> no food until you find
<dbarth> etc.
<dbarth> it's a really hard problem
<dbarth> but they're on it
<dbarth> we'll try to find a good solution for Oniric
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/08/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
<dbarth> DBO: ;)
<dbarth> thanks folks
<dbarth> it was a pleasure
<dbarth> i'm sorry i can't stay right now to take more questions informally
<nigelb> Thanks dbarth :)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
<dbarth> (doctor appointment for the kid that can't wait)
<dbarth> but i'll be back a bit later
<dbarth> and you can always fine me (us, the Unity guys) in #ayatana
<dbarth> cheers
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-09
<xavier_> Hello
<kushal3> hello
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-04-10
<soreau> I am new to this channel. When is the next class?
<jmarsden> soreau: See the /topic of the channel: Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi
<soreau> jmarsden: ah thanks
<jmarsden> soreau: You're welcome.
<jwash> can someone recomend a source code package manager.
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-04-03
<jsjgruber> [slidefile https://sites.google.com/site/gruberdocuments/engineering-docs/Lernid0.8.2.pdf 2]
<jsjgruber> [slide 2]
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-04-05
<monadist>  is there a comprehensive listing of all classrooms and associated logs ? Thanks
#ubuntu-classroom 2012-04-06
<TuRnaD0> dos ubuntu have anything to do with putty ?
<Caesar56> Hello
<Caesar56> I hope this is the right place to ask for n00b help on Ubuntu>
<Caesar56> ?
<pangolin> Caesar56, #ubuntu is the support channel
<Caesar56> Ok thankyou.
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-04-04
<ronald__> Hello!
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-04-01
<stoagmeyer> anyone know where i could get printable worksheets for training in ubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-04-04
<steven_> I'm using 12.4--there are other versions. Why cant I update?
<steven_> There is 12. 10 and 13.X--an I missing out?
<jose> steven_: you need to change the settings to update to all releases
<jose> it's LTS-only by default
<steven_> Thanks on the info
<jose> next time, #ubuntu should be for support :)
<steven_> or thank you
#ubuntu-classroom 2014-04-05
<czajkowski> aloha
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Women Career Days - Current Session: Ubuntu Women Career Days: Laura Czajkowski - Instructors: czajkowski
<pleia2> hi everyone, welcome to the Ubuntu Women Career Days session with czajkowski
<czajkowski> Thanks for having me here today, it's nice of pleia2 to ask me to attend.
<pleia2> if anyone has any questions during the session, please ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prefix your question with QUESTION:
<pleia2> for instance
<pleia2> (see in -chat)
<ClassBot> pleia2 asked: do you like pugs?
<czajkowski> I do!!!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> alright, czajkowski - all yours!
<czajkowski> so I'll start by how I got involved and then talk about what I'm currently up to these days.
<czajkowski> I've always loved technology I grew up around it and for me it was an easy decision to study at a later date.
<czajkowski> Studied Computer Science at college, loved it, although looking back it focused a lot on  evelopment which I did but don't enjoy and wasn't till the final 2 years where I
<czajkowski> found engineering, testing
<czajkowski> , documentation, requirement that I found what I love doing the most.
<czajkowski> *development
<czajkowski> How I got involved in open source was via the computer society at college, I got more involved in the running of the society and just liked being able to contribute.
<czajkowski> I started off as a treasurer and the was the president of the society
<czajkowski> that in itself was interesting as the person controlling the purse strings in a male dominated society it was often viewed as the token female by some.  But I did introduce new events, like talks workshops and even ran my first conferene skycon.
<czajkowski> I got involved in Ubuntu around 2007, and loved being involved in the community and having a having a voice.
<czajkowski> I found it different from others that were active around then perhaps it was because I knew people starting off but I think a lot of it was I had an interest in the desktop.
<czajkowski> any questions?
<czajkowski> When I finished college I worked at a Software Tester for an Irish Software House in Dublin and it was here I got further involved in Ubuntu, it was anything but open source but did allow me to be able to irc at work so I could keep being involved and got to know more and more people!
<czajkowski> sometimes you may not get the perfect job on your first attempt but view it as the stepping stone or gaining experience to move on in your career.
<czajkowski> Put in the time and the effort and people will respect you in the long run has been my experience.
<czajkowski> Back then I started to be involved in the Ubuntu-IE LoCo
<czajkowski> went along to a few workshops and a few meet ups
<czajkowski> it was nice to mee people face to face outside of IRC
<czajkowski> I heard about UDS Karmic and thought it sounded interested and took a weeks holidays and went o see what it was all about.
<czajkowski> I was hooked â from there I got involved in Ubuntu teams, eventually got my membership and so began my jouney into Ubuntu, 2 years on the Membership board, 4 years on the LoCo Council and now on my 2nd term on the Community Council.
<czajkowski> I've made great friends along the way, many of which I keep i contact with outside of Ubuntu, and I think this is what keeps our community alive
<czajkowski> any questions?
<czajkowski> I moved to London on 2010 and in 2011 I started to work for Canonical as Launchpad support. It gave me a view into how various people use one system so differently, not just for code hosting, but translations and not just for Ubuntu projects.  It was great and I really enjoyed my time there!
<czajkowski> So what do I do now:
<czajkowski> I'm the EMEA Community Manager at MongoDB, http://www.mongodb.com/ and I've been here since June '13. the Community team is broken down by territory and we work together as a team to help the community with the tools they need, we worked on a community kit this year which has been useful and we're looking for more people to help translate it.  http://blog.mongodb.org/post/64205973285/introducing-the-mongodb-community-kit
<czajkowski> So some of you may not have heard about MongoDB
<czajkowski> and others may wonder why I blog about it
<czajkowski> Ubuntu and MongodB do work together
<czajkowski> and without people talking about the different technologies which I like doing, people won't know about new cool tools to use!
<czajkowski> you can download MongoDB from the software centre, there is also the JuJu Charm for MongoDB https://jujucharms.com/bundle/~charmers/mongodb/5/cluster/ and also in the Charm for MongoDB https://jujucharms.com/bundle/~charmers/mongodb/5/cluster/ and also in the Ceilometer package in OpenStack  http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt/content/ceilometer-install.html
<czajkowski> I think one that that has helped my career is taking the time to read about different projects
<czajkowski> not become an expert in them but know that we often use parts of projects within one project
<czajkowski> If you like technology and it's someting that always changes you need to keep learning
<czajkowski> so what do I do at work
<czajkowski> well I work from home in Guildford and I look after the community. which is rather broad.
<czajkowski> I look after our MongoDB User Groups â MUGs and I currently look after 70 of them, I continue
<czajkowski> to nurture them and make sure they are growing, I look at ways I can help take their feedback and see where we can improve of give credit where credit is due and pass along the thanks!  I recently launched a survey in EMEA for our community  and with that feedback help where necessary.
<czajkowski> without seeking feedback you can't know if you're doing the right thing and if you are that's great and if you're not where can you make it better.
<czajkowski> I spend time with each of our organisers making sure they feel supported.  Sometimes it's a call, or a hangout just to  see if their last event went well
<czajkowski> or if they need extra support, making sure they have some swag if they need it and generally supporting them for their advoacy in the community.
<czajkowski> Making sure we have people at events that have requested us to be there.  I get many many many! :) requests to have us at events, I try and make sure we're either speaking at events or there or we do send MonogDB Masters - like MoTU to the events on our behalf
<czajkowski> Part of my role is to talk about and bring MongoDB to the community which may new, interested in learning more or haven't had the opportunity to meet one of our experts so I run our MongoDB Evenings in EMEA, this week I'm just back from Italy where we had two such events and in two weeks time I'll be in Barcelona
<czajkowski> I am very privileged that I get to meet the community face to face and get to hear what people want from MonogoDB, but also it's great to hear what people are doing and the enthusiasm spreads.
<czajkowski> I recently started my training, which is nice and anyone can do it! I'm doing the Python 101 course but if you prefer Java there is also on there and we work with the community to make sure it's up to date. https://university.mongodb.com/
<czajkowski> so I am still learning in this role
<czajkowski> and I've found the best way is to talk to people
<czajkowski> sometimes that's just via twitter you strike up conversations or on irc
<czajkowski> but that's what is like for me each day
<czajkowski> talking about open source and mongodb and where we all fit together in the great wider open source community
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> I love it!
<czajkowski> I get to do what I do best talk to people about something I am passionate about
<czajkowski> You can follow me on twitter @czajkowski
<czajkowski> MY G+ page https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/
<czajkowski> or email me czajkowski@ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> an that's really me :)
<czajkowski> Any questions ?
<ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Do you have any recommendations for other people who are looking for similar types of work?
<czajkowski> I'd look at some of the communities out there and see what they are offering
<czajkowski> a good idea would be to see if there are any job openings if you are attending events
<czajkowski> many people love talking and it's not until you actually talk to them at a booth do you make a connection  and find out about possible roles
<ClassBot> pleia2 asked: Have you faced any particular challenges in your career that others might learn from?
<czajkowski> Yes, people assume once you work with community you're not tecnical, I find this insulting. My only advice is always continue to learn and read. While you won't be an expert in the field, ask questions don't be silent people asusme silence means you don't know anything, show your interest by asking and engaging.
<czajkowski> Thanks folks
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/04/05/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || No Sessions Currently in Progress
